# Weight Loss



## MrBurns (12 April 2009)

Might be good to have hints and tips about how to lose weight.

For me , I'm about 10 kg overweight not huge but enough to make me uncomfortable and I cannot get rid of it, it's purely psychological.

It all boils down to what you put in your mouth, but I love food, ???

HELP !


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## Julia (12 April 2009)

For sure 10kg too much will be making you really uncomfortable.

How much carbohydrate do you eat, Mr Burns?   There may be no connection, and it may be more to do with sedentary life styles, but it's possible to date the start of the current obesity epidemic to the time dietitians were recommending everyone stashed away large quantities of carbohydrates in favour of less protein and fat.  They suggested six slices of bread per day, plus three servings of potato, rice, or pasta.

That might be fine if you're burning up lots of calories but most Australians simply are not.

How about cutting all the carbs, eating grilled fish rather than fried meat, lots of fresh salads (without lots of oil laden dressings or mayonnaise), and plenty of fresh vegetables.  Three pieces of fruit, minimal alcohol, and overall simply serving yourself smaller portions than usual.

Visualise how much more comfortable you will be without that extra weight, see yourself looking slimmer and fitter, and get into the exercise in whatever form you enjoy.

It simply comes down to energy in versus energy out.  Get yourself a kilojoule/calorie counter so you know the energy value of what you're eating.

Does that sound possible?


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## MrBurns (12 April 2009)

Julia said:


> For sure 10kg too much will be making you really uncomfortable.
> 
> How much carbohydrate do you eat, Mr Burns?   There may be no connection, and it may be more to do with sedentary life styles, but it's possible to date the start of the current obesity epidemic to the time dietitians were recommending everyone stashed away large quantities of carbohydrates in favour of less protein and fat.  They suggested six slices of bread per day, plus three servings of potato, rice, or pasta.
> 
> ...




I eat whatever I like , fatty, sweet, you name it, like fruit and drink too much especially since the marriage broke.

I know what I should do but cant .....yet,....... I almost feel like taking up smoking again to help but wont as that would be a death wish.

I'll get there but in my own time I guess.

I remember what is like to be slim or underweight, fantastic, I want that again.

Thanks for the advice Julia, I try every day and fall down usually before the end of that day.


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## stockGURU (12 April 2009)

Mr Burns, you must yearn for the days when you looked like this.


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## MrBurns (12 April 2009)

I was a muffin wasnt I ?


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## bluelabel (12 April 2009)

According to "The Biggest Loser Club" all you have to do is replace 2 meals a day with one of their shakes.  Burn baby burn that fat away.  Hypocrites. 

:bier:

blue


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## So_Cynical (12 April 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Might be good to have hints and tips about how to lose weight.
> 
> For me , I'm about 10 kg overweight not huge but enough to make me uncomfortable and I cannot get rid of it, it's purely psychological.
> 
> ...




LOL its like your describing me. 

I fast walk/jog 4 to 8 km > 4 to 5 times a week....the weight refuses to move...i only eat 
crap and drink alcohol on the weekend...not unusual for me to eat salad 4 days in a row.


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## Prospector (12 April 2009)

I had maybe 5 kilos to lose.  So last November I tried the Lemon detox diet.  Lasted for three days only, (it is a grim detox)  but that was enough to totally rejig my system.  Now I actually like the foods that are good for me - and by filling myself up at lunctime with things like cherry tomatoes, carrot sticks, celery, some cheese and crackers, I am not hungry again until teatime.  Then just a smaller serve of meat with more vegies.  Cut back on alcohol, and the weight will come off, even without exercising.  Yet I had been exercising for years without any change in weight.

Just by reducing the size of your meals over a period of time, you will be surprised at what a difference this will make.


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## JTLP (12 April 2009)

Gav the bodybuilder will be all over this...but.

To lose weight is the simplest equation of all:

Kilojoules In < Kilojoules Out/Burned.

MrBurns...simply decrease the amount of kilojoules you put in your body (or eat negative kilojoule foods like celery) or increase your heart rate when exercising to burn more of them (seems as though you are a glutton to the sweet foods!)

A great exercise that I like to use when getting fit+to lose weight is to do something called the Fartlek drill.

Basically I do a 40m jog, followed by 40m at 75%, followed by 40m at sprint pace, followed by a walk for 40m. Do this over a period of 30 - 45mins 5 times a week.

Here is some more info on it here:
http://www.coolrunning.com.au/expert/1997c002.shtml

You can basically tailor the intervals to your own needs...hope it helps!


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## sammy84 (12 April 2009)

I used to swim competitively and the simplest advice I received was to chew slower


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## So_Cynical (13 April 2009)

JTLP said:


> Gav the bodybuilder will be all over this...but.
> 
> To lose weight is the simplest equation of all:
> 
> Kilojoules In < Kilojoules Out/Burned.




I'm a great example of why that isn't so....ive cut my total intake (Kilojoules) by 
about half and the weight will not move....WILL NOT MOVE.


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## Sean K (13 April 2009)

Maybe chop a leg off. Gotta be a few kilos gone straight away there.


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## gav (13 April 2009)

So_Cynical said:


> I'm a great example of why that isn't so....ive cut my total intake (Kilojoules) by
> about half and the weight will not move....WILL NOT MOVE.




There can be many reasons for this.  You could have cut your calories by too much, which will cause your body to hold fat.  I wont go into the other reasons just yet.

Mr Burns - I will write a detailed post in the next few days, when I get the chance.


Gav.


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## Wysiwyg (13 April 2009)

sammy84 said:


> I used to swim competitively and the simplest advice I received was to chew slower




Yes mastication is definitely the way to go.


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## Boggo (13 April 2009)

I read something recently about a family in the UK who claim that they couldn't work because they were overweight and it was a genetic issue.

Has anyone ever seen a fat Ethiopian, no, me neither


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## wessiri (13 April 2009)

MrBurns said:


> I eat whatever I like , fatty, sweet, you name it, like fruit and drink too much especially since the marriage broke.
> 
> I know what I should do but cant .....yet,....... I almost feel like taking up smoking again to help but wont as that would be a death wish.
> 
> ...




Heya Mr Burns, Im a fitness instructor so know a little on the topic.

Sounds to me like you already know the answer. A shift in your lifestyle, mostly, your eating habits combined with 30 mins of activity (walking, sport etc, just get moving) p/day will shift the weight. 

What the others say about calories in calories out is correct, and as Gav points out you must be eating the correct amount of calories to lose the weight, too much or too little and you gain fat. Eating and excercise are the simple answers, Go and get some pro help from a Personal Trainer or nutritionist if you dont know where to begin, but Im confident that a positive change in your eating and some excercise will help.


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## Boggo (13 April 2009)

This should do it for you Mr Burns 


_A guy calls a company and orders their 5-day/5-kilogram weight loss program.

The next day, there's a knock on the door and there stands before him a voluptuous, athletic, 19 year old babe dressed in nothing but pair of Nike running shoes and a sign round her neck.

She introduces herself as a representative of the weight loss company. The sign reads: "If you can catch me, you can have me."

Without a second thought, he takes off after her. A few miles later, huffing and puffing, he finally catches her and has his way with her.

The same girl shows up for the next four days and the same thing happens. On the fifth day, he weighs himself and is delighted to find he has lost 5 kilo's as promised.

He then calls the company and orders their 5-day/10-kilo program. The next day there's a knock at the door and there stands the most stunning, beautiful, sexy woman he has ever seen in his life.

She is wearing nothing but Reebok running shoes and a sign round her neck that reads: "If you catch me you can have me." Well, he's out the door after her like a shot! This girl is in excellent shape and it takes him a while to catch her; but when he does, it's definitely worth every muscle cramp and wheeze, so for the next four days, the same routine happens.

Much to his delight, on the fifth day he weighs himself only to discover that he has lost another 20 kilograms as promised.

He decides to go for broke and calls the company to order the 7-day/50-kilogram program. "Are you sure?" asks the representative on the phone "This is our most rigorous program." Absolutely," he replies, "I haven't felt this good in years."

The next day there's a knock at the door; and when he opens it he finds this huge, muscular, 7ft black man standing there wearing nothing but pink running shoes and a sign around his neck that reads: "I'm Nigel. If I catch you, you're mine!!"_


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## ck13488 (13 April 2009)

gav said:


> There can be many reasons for this.  You could have cut your calories by too much, which will cause your body to hold fat.  I wont go into the other reasons just yet.
> 
> Mr Burns - I will write a detailed post in the next few days, when I get the chance.
> 
> ...




well before gav responds with an accurate in depth post....

as of right now start to only eat things that; ran, flew or swam at sometime in their lifetime AND things that grew in the ground or on trees. ALSO only drink water or milk...diet soft drink if you feel the need 

good luck!

eg. when was the last time you picked a slice of bread from a tree 
*
you would be amazed at how much of a difference this will make!!* i bet you would start noticing visual improvement without changing physical activity levels  

if your going to change your physical activity...do weights not cardio! im sure gav will convice you why this is so! 

sorry if i sound a little disjointed...i have officially been alive for 7,669 days (21 years) and have had a few beverages to celebrate hopefully i will find out that im getting a power rack for my bday tomoz and will talk to gav about making the most of it  might even post some inspirational progress results all going well!


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## MrBurns (13 April 2009)

ck13488 said:


> sorry if i sound a little disjointed...i have officially been alive for 7,669 days (21 years) and have had a few beverages to celebrate hopefully i will find out that im getting a power rack for my bday tomoz and will talk to gav about making the most of it  might even post some inspirational progress results all going well!




Hey *Happy Birthday* i'll take a kilo off to celebrate for you 

I remember years ago I got into changing my eating habits, it got to the stage where I couldn't even think about junk food without feeling repulsed. I mainly ate fruit and a little of other things never a big meal, after a while you're not hungry anymore, cant replicate that this time, I was smoking then which may have helped.


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## noirua (13 April 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Hey *Happy Birthday* i'll take a kilo off to celebrate for you
> 
> I remember years ago I got into changing my eating habits, it got to the stage where I couldn't even think about junk food without feeling repulsed. I mainly ate fruit and a little of other things never a big meal, after a while you're not hungry anymore, cant replicate that this time, I was smoking then which may have helped.



Smoking does reduce weight, one lung at a time.

Seriously though folks.  Nicotine is an appetite suppressant and generally causes the body to lose up to 200 calories per day.
It does increase the heart rate and if you tend to have high blood pressure and a high pulse rate, yes, smoking will bring about your earlier demise.

Some are in a catch 22 situation here. Generally though, seek advice on your present health, weight and blood pressure.  Doing it alone is tough, it took me over 30 years. ( BMI now only 23.1 this morning - had to be done as they were making a box for me. )


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## Calliope (13 April 2009)

MrBurns said:


> It all boils down to what you put in your mouth, but I love food, ???
> 
> HELP !




You obviously knew what the problem was before you asked for help. You eat and/or drink too much.

The answer is self-discipline.


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## MrBurns (13 April 2009)

Calliope said:


> You obviously knew what the problem was before you asked for help. You eat and/or drink too much.
> 
> The answer is self-discipline.




100% correct, mind over matter, mental strength.


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## gordon2007 (13 April 2009)

MrBurns said:


> It all boils down to what you put in your mouth... !




I really don't want to know what you do with your sex life.


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## Sean K (13 April 2009)

I'm an ex fitness instructor (Ba App Sci, PE) and I'm going to tell you how to _really_ lose weight! 

I mean, immediate effects!!!!

This is radical.

Food:

Don't eat anything for the next 5 days except for fruit, juice, water and multi vitamins. 
Then:
Fruit and juice up to lunch.
Large salad for lunch with some tuna, eggs, or some type of fish, not fried. 
Or, steamed vegies.
Mean green soup for dinner. Cabbage, celery, tomato, onion, cucumber, and stock. Blend it up. Eat as much of this as you like!!
Snacks: fruit, and multi vitamins.
Do not drink alcohol.
Drink heaps of water.
Do this for a month without fail!

This will be very challenging.

Exercise:

Start walking more each day.
Walk a little more for 1-2 hrs each day.
Break into a jog for 30 mins when you can.
Jog and run as you feel fit.


No need to go further with exercise, you'll start developing too many muscles that need to be treated with extra food. Just keep walking and jogging.


Now, major problem! 

Your metabolism has almost completely shut down. Your body is well into  survival mode and requires far less calories than it did before. This will occur after 1-3 weeks of this survival weight reduction plan. In fact, your body will start to shut down after just a couple of days. After hunger not satisfied your body will start to naturally slow down to compensate and you will probably get very lethargic. Major probelm! 

How to overcome it?

Firstly; stay starving, enjoy feeling hungry, and don't give in!

Once you have lost 5kg, of your 10kg target, start to wind things back. Very slowly!! Much slower than what you ramped up before. Maintain the exercise, but start adding in real food. Start drinking again. Maybe give yourself one day a week of drinking. This needs to be monitored really closely. 

The only way to truly measure if this is all working is through body fat measurements, which can only be done in a tank in an exercise physiology lab. Scales, calipers, and measurements only tell half the story, but are an OK start. Taking measurements of body parts may assist in seeing reductions. Measure waist, hips, arms, chest, thighs nd compare as you go. And pants. See how they fit from day to day. 

Now, once you've hit the 10kg loss the real effort begins... 

You have changed your lifestyle. You need to keep some of these habits for some time. For example, fruit up till lunch, exercise 1hr plus each day, salad/veg for lunch, reduced alcohol intake. And more.....

That's about it for detail.

Alternatively, chop that leg off ....

Cripes, I've rambled on a bit. 

If I was in your neighbourhood would volunteer to make this all happen. 

Good luck!

Gav and the other qualified people are bound to crucify this plan.... LOL


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## MrBurns (13 April 2009)

kennas said:


> I'm an ex fitness instructor (Ba App Sci, PE) and I'm going to tell you how to _really_ lose weight!
> 
> I mean, immediate effects!!!!
> 
> ...




Ok I'm inspired, I'll let you know how it goes............._geeez no drinking !_

Thanks, thats just what I needed...


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## kincella (13 April 2009)

this works for me...but everyone  tells me its the wrong thing to do...bad for the body etc....but when I do this once or twice a year, I feel on top of the world...never felt better....have been doing this all my life....am not suggesting anyone else practice it.....I just hate the look and feel of fat....I used to ride horses, and played tennis.....that was the only exercise I liked...do not do either now...(there was a lot of  active excercise in looking after the horses)


I do not eat for a week...guaranteed to lose 3-5 kg for the week...I drink coffee, water only during the day, then some alcohol in the evening...(about to cut that right down too) average about 250 cals in a glass of wine

I can speed things up by eating rockmelon..a natural diuretic 

when I feel hungry..I drink a glass of water...it fills the stomach and the hunger thoughts are gone
apart from the above....I dont like veges much....except potatoes, I can make some wicked salads, taste terrific...but I do not see the results fast enough....and I am not really into eating food 3 times a day etc...

I am a good cook and love to cook and entertain, but I hate fat on me...thats for other people...

joke...I am on a seafood diet....aka I diet until I see food....(that is not me)

also not into exercise anymore, harder as I get older....used to play tennis 4 times a week, but to do the exercise now.....thats in my dreams ,,hahahaha

I never buy larger clothing...I have been the same size all my adult life...if things dont fit or are tight...then its diet time.....
I am an optimist...and I  like the guarantee I receive from my diet plan...it does not take weeks or months to achieve the desired results

years ago. on a different temp diet..ate 1/4 of a rockmelon for lunch everyday...after 2 weeks noticed a dramatic  loss of weight...I was eating my usual ordinary food...
told a  friend who was closer to 100kg...he was a good cook, but tasted too much of his cooking obviously....he over ate...simple...he started eating the melon...did nothing different....within a week noticed a loss of weight...so simple, it then inspired him to keep eating the melon, but then he also reduced his overall food intake....
I never saw him for 4 months...when I did, it was unbelievable, he had gone from over a 100kg to 60kg...
some people find it difficult to totally change their food habits....so its a struggle to lose the weight, but in the case above...he got a good result without changing...which then inspired him to reduce the  amount of  his food
intake...
ps he has never put the weight back on..
the rockmelon is a good diuretic , it removes the liquid from the body...hence the early losses...
there are alternatives to the rockmelon....
or add some fruity yoghurt to disguise the taste
ps I think genes do play a role, buts its more the role model... then I see all those prisoners of war they were all skinny !


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## tech/a (13 April 2009)

Bloody hell Kenna's Id hate to see your Survival diet!


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## kincella (13 April 2009)

well here I was thinking my plan was too radical to put up here...spent ages cutting out bits...and then I saw Kennas...whoo hoo
with my plan you can still have a couple of drinks...
and back to normal fairly quickly....


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## Sean K (13 April 2009)

Genetics are a major part of your ability to lose weigth and keep it off!

There is a theory that you are born with a certain amount of fat cells and they can only be added to in you first couple of years of life. From then, you are stuck! 

So, you either make the fat cells smaller, or larger...

Thus, an explanation for those who can never lose weight, and those who never put it on.

A common conception of personal weight is a natural balance which we will all achieve. That is, we can diet, or binge, all we like, but eventually, we will resort back to that natural balance. A genetic balance. 

So, the only way to overcome that is to start dramatically changing your level of metabolic rate. Either through exercise or through caloric restriction, over an extended period of time. 

So, back to the basics mentioned earlier: 

Reduce calories and expend more....

Just manage the bodies natual reluctance to accept this over time to be successful.


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## Sean K (13 April 2009)

kincella said:


> well here I was thinking my plan was too radical to put up here...spent ages cutting out bits...and then I saw Kennas...whoo hoo
> with my plan you can still have a couple of drinks...
> and back to normal fairly quickly....



Yes, I doubt this can be achieved unless someone was extremely motivated, and/or under supervision, and then transitioned through to normal life.


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## kincella (13 April 2009)

I am a very motivated person...I dont try to be everything...just good at whatever I do...
I did try the fat bit deliberately....found it was uncomfortable...and I did not like the look 
started that diet today....
I psyche myself up...easy...I can see the end result...I picture the positive result...nothing hard about it...
just one week of not needing food....voila

I can understand others who do not have the confidence or motivation required


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## Calliope (13 April 2009)

This subject has been raised many times on ASF, and yet it still gets plenty of traction. It is easy to see why the weight loss industry is so huge.


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## MrBurns (13 April 2009)

Just got back from the supermarket, got carrots, fruit etc.

I didnt know that about rockmelon ? I love it will have to go back and get some.


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## Prospector (13 April 2009)

Grrr, in Adelaide NO SHOPS ARE OPEN.  God we live in the dark ages.  Rockmelon - probably the one fruit that I loathe!   But maybe it is worth a try too.

Good on you Mr B.  Fill yourself up with raw salad vegies that actually burn off calories rather than add to them.  Once you have detoxed yourself, (stick at a fresh food diet for a week should do it) you will actually come to like them.  Also, give up the wine and beer and drink lemon juice, soda and vodka.  I heard Jen Hawkins did this too.  Way less calories.



kincella said:


> I psyche myself up...easy...I can see the end result...I picture the positive result...nothing hard about it...
> just one week of not needing food....voila




Ah, I do the opposite which works for me - I picture the negative result!  Interesting.

And Kennas, I agree with the thought that you should feel hungry at least part of the day.  Trouble is, you then feel uncomfortably 'full' even when you have had only a light meal.

Also, make sure that you are also clearing all your food swiftly through the body - the lemon detox diet recommends a nice cup of senna tea!  Amazing what that does!


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## MrBurns (13 April 2009)

Prospector said:


> Grrr, in Adelaide NO SHOPS ARE OPEN.  God we live in the dark ages.  Rockmelon - probably the one fruit that I loathe!   But maybe it is worth a try too.
> 
> Good on you Mr B.  Fill yourself up with raw salad vegies that actually burn off calories rather than add to them.  Once you have detoxed yourself, (stick at a fresh food diet for a week should do it) you will actually come to like them.  Also, give up the wine and beer and drink lemon juice, soda and vodka.  I heard Jen Hawkins did this too.  Way less calories.
> 
> ...




I just look in the mirror to see the negative result.

Dont drink a lot of beer, but drinking makes you hungry that whre it's a problem.


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## kincella (13 April 2009)

drinking makes you hungry ??? thought it would be happy...then when you get happy....you acquire a dont care attitude and eat ?

another source apart from rockmelons....( I too did not like them to begin with, but I liked them so much better than the alternatives...and eventually found it delicious,,,plus I do not get as good results with any of the others)

Include often foods which have a diuretic effect including celery, cucumber, apples, artichokes, rockmelon, watermelon, parsley, fresh dandelion greens, watercress, fennel, papaya, pineapple, garlic and dill. 
Converse to what you may think you should also drink plenty of water, say 6 to 8 glasses daily. 
Lean fresh red meats and fish can be eaten if desired as they are good sources of magnesium which reduces fluid retention. 
Consider the possibility of food allergies; an elimination diet avoiding dairy products, wheat and other grains which are the most common culprits may be worthwhile.

http://www.weightcontroldoctor.com.au/index.php?page=az&subpage=fluidretention


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## Sean K (13 April 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Just got back from the supermarket, got carrots, fruit etc.
> 
> I didnt know that about rockmelon ? I love it will have to go back and get some.



Maybe you should post before and after photos MrB ... 

If your objective is just weight loss (not body shape change) start a graph in Excel on your daily weight. Don't worry about daily fluctuations too much, but an overall trend. Week by week is a good indication. It's generally accepted that one pound / half a kilo per week is a safe weight reduction target. Can do a kilo if it's managed very well... What I suggested earlier will be around a kilo per week depending on your present level. 

Must say again, you can destroy your metabolism with a radical diet if it's not followed through with a long term 'lifestyle plan'. 

I reckon Gav will be in heaps of trouble once he finishes training and eating well. The muscle won't turn to fat (impossible), but his reduction in training intensity and increased caloric intake will be hard to manage. Good luck!


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## kincella (13 April 2009)

prospector....I prefer not to picture self in a negative state or look....
somewhere in my research years ago..the secret to success is to picture yourself in the desired state...look, career, position etc'
and if you had a negative thought, one must erase it from the mind......immediately...no ifs or buts about it...

apparently that is where people can go wrong..they picture themselves in the wrong state....then when a subconcious decision must be made...it can retrieve the wrong desired picture/state of mind......
hence how people often make a mistake....


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## enigmatic (13 April 2009)

I found the best thing for me was to join a Gym with a mate or two and head down every day.. soon enough you will find you and your mate will be harashing each other to head to the Gym..


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## enigmatic (13 April 2009)

Kincella your nearly right about erasing the negative thought immediately..
the key is to recognise the negative thought think about it for 30seconds then disregard it.. this way next time the thought pops in your head you brain knows that you have already considered it and have considered it pointless for further thought..
This however needs some discipline to work..


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## MrBurns (13 April 2009)

Alcohol makes me hungry......... a lot of people pig out on pizza after a night out.

Joined a gym, personal trainer and all, he just watched TV while he kept pushing the buttons to increase the rate of the treadmill, I'l go back again some time.


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## ck13488 (13 April 2009)

kincella said:


> this works for me...but everyone  tells me its the wrong thing to do...bad for the body etc....but when I do this once or twice a year, I feel on top of the world...never felt better....have been doing this all my life....am not suggesting anyone else practice it.....I just hate the look and feel of fat....I used to ride horses, and played tennis.....that was the only exercise I liked...do not do either now...(there was a lot of  active excercise in looking after the horses)
> 
> 
> I do not eat for a week...guaranteed to lose 3-5 kg for the week...I drink coffee, water only during the day, then some alcohol in the evening...(about to cut that right down too) average about 250 cals in a glass of wine
> ...




all your doing is starving yourself the main problem with most "_diets_" is that they starve whoever is _on the diet_ because they just want to eat...it is natural after all!!! i would not last on this diet one minute as i love my food. a bowl of green crappy soup or a nice thick steak n vegies, i know what id rather eat!

eat small meals with fruit/veg/salad and a protein source (meat, eggs, beans etc) just because you want to lose weight doesnt mean you have to starve yourself....

PS...get off that treadmill  your wasting away muscle! more muscle means your basal metabolic rate(amount of enery burnt just running your body) increases with increased muscle on your body...lifting weights also 'uses' enegy for much longer after you stop exercising than running will!


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## kincella (13 April 2009)

Mr Burns...you have to change your thinking pattern...promise yourself....alcohol does not make you hungry....

we can all love food...but not so much to get fat....what do you love more ??? atm it appears you love food and also would love to lose 10kg 

remember  that quote of mine...dreams are a promise you make to yourself

so concentrate on what you need to do...to make your dreams come true...in this case its losing the weight...its no big deal at all...its not like you need to lose 50kg or 100kg

its your attitude that needs some tuning...

alter your life by changing your thoughts and attitudes...so flush out the old thoughts and attitudes that hold you back...eg; needing pitza after a beer...its not true...

and replacing it with...I love my beer and my food...but not the extra 10kg I carry...so from now on...I do not want pitza...in fact I hate pitza after a beer

find a photo of the prisoners of war....look at how skinny they were...put a copy on the fridge door....remind yourself how you could look if you really wanted to ...
but we dont want you to be skinny....just lighter...and enjoying life


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## alwaysLearning (13 April 2009)

Julia said:


> For sure 10kg too much will be making you really uncomfortable.
> 
> How much carbohydrate do you eat, Mr Burns?   There may be no connection, and it may be more to do with sedentary life styles, but it's possible to date the start of the current obesity epidemic to the time dietitians were recommending everyone stashed away large quantities of carbohydrates in favour of less protein and fat.  They suggested six slices of bread per day, plus three servings of potato, rice, or pasta.
> 
> ...




I like the serving size advice you say. I was at the gas station and looked at the chocolate bars and noticed that they are 20%bigger. Things like a cheery ripe or a snickers are a lot bigger than what they used to.

Those junk energy drinks with lots of caffine appear to be super sized as well. Looks like Australia is heading in the same direction as USA when it comes to food and that is bad news indeed.


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## kincella (13 April 2009)

cki13488....I dont like many vegies , nor fruit...nor most of all the  things that are supposed to be good for me...
It does not feel like I am starving myself....there is plenty of fat stored for that rainy day...so I am just having a stock take....reducing the excess stock...
having an end of year clean out....but more regular basis..
cheers


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## alwaysLearning (13 April 2009)

MrBurns said:


> 100% correct, mind over matter, mental strength.




nah...not mental strength but wisdom strength.

If you can imagine and think up and write down really constructive reasons why you MUST get fit, you'll get fit without using any 'willpower' because you will just want to do it so bad that willpower isn't even a factor.

So yeah, keep thinking of the reasons why you MUST do it and how much better you'll feel as a result of doing it.

There is a subtle kind of pleasure that you get when you are able to hold yourself back and stick to your plan. Everytime you do it, your mind grows stronger and you feel great a few hours later when you tell yourself "Wow, I'm glad I didn't eat that junk food or whatever, my plan is working".


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## MrBurns (13 April 2009)

kincella said:


> remember  that quote of mine...dreams are a promise you make to yourself




I like that one.

It's not hunger it's boredom half the time, if I just keep focused I'll be ok.


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## alwaysLearning (13 April 2009)

kennas said:


> Maybe you should post before and after photos MrB ...
> 
> If your objective is just weight loss (not body shape change) start a graph in Excel on your daily weight. Don't worry about daily fluctuations too much, but an overall trend. Week by week is a good indication. It's generally accepted that one pound / half a kilo per week is a safe weight reduction target. Can do a kilo if it's managed very well... What I suggested earlier will be around a kilo per week depending on your present level.
> 
> ...




I'm just curious but I thought that it was supposed to be best if you can increase your metabolism. See, if you increase your metab then you burn more calories when you exercise.

I don't know but destroying your metabolism and then rebuilding it kind of goes opposite to what I read at bodybuilding.com posts.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=115253401


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## Happy (13 April 2009)

MrBurns said:


> 100% correct, mind over matter, mental strength.




You can trick your mind.

Small sacrifice, but every time before you eat anything you like, drink glass of water (best if body temperature)

Another small sacrifice, eat slowly (mentioned already)

Little bit bigger effort, every time before you feel like having something to eat, make little run. I mean little.
If you live in a house run around that house once, come back home and have your snack.
Being 'sinle again' and bloke you probably had to leave house, but you can always run 100 meteres anywhere.

Trying get rid of weight it is best to lose not more than 1/2 kilo per week, so your body's self defence doesn't trigger its most powerful weapons.

Good luck, and do it ASAP, like now !


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## kincella (13 April 2009)

boredom is spot on....too much time on your hands now...whole new life in front of you...where is your list of all the things you wanted to do....
aka think the movie ....Jack Nicholsen and 'the bucket list'...

I used to play tennis...at Sth Yarra,...there was a guy named John ..he was in his 80's....he played a smart game...could not run as fast but got the best points...
my father was breaking in and training horses at age 84 when he had an accident....he was very active...he loved what he was doing...ate and drank as much as he liked...he was fit....needed to be to handle the young horses

so lets see...what was your sport ??? or hobby or dream to do something ?
incorporate an interest that takes away the boredom....
become a mentor....
watch the show...ABC  grumpy old men..for a good laugh


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## MrBurns (13 April 2009)

kincella said:


> boredom is spot on....too much time on your hands now...whole new life in front of you...where is your list of all the things you wanted to do....
> aka think the movie ....Jack Nicholsen and 'the bucket list'...
> 
> I used to play tennis...at Sth Yarra,...there was a guy named John ..he was in his 80's....he played a smart game...could not run as fast but got the best points...
> ...





All good stuff ...........thanks to you all, started golf again, not playing well but ......stuff it ......the exercise is good so I'm going to forget about the score and just get out there, was walking 4 k a day must start that again, it's simple just walk out the front door and come back 45 minutes later, so why did I stop ??? I dunno human nature, no commitment, I have to get real with myself If I'm going to get this done.


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## marklar (13 April 2009)

I've managed to lose 12kg over 12 months with a few simple changes to my food & lifestyle:

1. Eliminate dessert
2. Switch to low-carb beer
3. Reduce the amount of potato I'd been eating at dinner
4. Give up the car & tram where possible, walk to work (30 mins each way), walk to the markets (15 mins) on the weekend & stock up on fresh food.
5. Get some new recipe books
6. Learn to cook lentils
7. Buy a veggie steamer & actually use it!

None of these have been particularly difficult to incorporate into my lifestyle, but I found as I started seeing some positive effects it's been easier to maintain.

m.


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## MrBurns (13 April 2009)

I think most weight problems are psychological, like smoking it's hard to shake, it's not so much being hungry it's a craving for fat or sugar, like with nicotine.

When you give up smoking you get over the nicotine craving easily enough, it's the habit of drawing the smoke into your lungs thats the hard bit to kick, impossible for some. 

I'm not so much hungry but will crave a fix of something before long, I have to make hunger my friend, get used to going to bed hungry, like any habit I'll get used to it.

My mind will play tricks, to get me to eat, same as cigarettes, just have to be alert and not fold.


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## matty2.0 (13 April 2009)

Weight loss is so damn easy. 
I have a problem with weight GAIN. 
I've been stuck on 60kg for most of my teens and early 20s. 

Weight loss? all you do is eat healthy proteins and less carbs. Get some good chicken breast in there or fish as a majority of your diet, and less sugars. 
And workout heaps. 

go to the gym and get a good cardio (swimming, running) workout for 1hour every morning on an empty stomach (no food! just after you wake up) and you'll lose weight EASY.


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## kincella (13 April 2009)

good on you burnsie...and why not go for a couple of golf lessons...brush up, fine tune the skills...go out to the driving range....practise....and it relieves the boredom...
I am a bit competitive...so I like to have at least some edge on whatever I do
cheers


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## kincella (13 April 2009)

matty...everything is easier when you are young....as one gets older, the idea of jumping out of bed...can be a trick in itself 
as one ages...can still believe everything is possible....but not probable...


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## Julia (13 April 2009)

I'm not keen on the idea of the starvation diet, or for that matter on any sort of "DIET".   People who 'go on diets' certainly lose weight, but if the rigidity of the diet is sufficient to bring about a significant weight loss quickly, then most people couldn't (and shouldn't) keep to such a regimen on a long term basis.

Isn't it better to just tell yourself you're looking after yourself better by eating sensible amounts of good food, cutting out the crap?

If there's a focus on good protein, fresh vegetables, salads and fruit, less dependence on the starchy stuff, you'll lose weight and gradually develop a permanent healthy eating habit, to the point where there's no desire to eat rubbish because you know it will make you feel bad, physically and psychologically.

I'm with Calliope - it's about simple self disclipine, making up your mind that you want to be healthy and not overweight.   Decide that eating right is simply what you do every day, likewise exercising for a minimum of an hour, preferably more.

All the detox stuff is pretty much a marketing gimmick to sell packets of special potions (probably flavoured nothing) to accompany a drastic reduction of intake, having just juices and water for several days etc.
The fact that people have paid for something makes them more disposed to follow the instructions.  They feel better because they're not shovelling in rubbish, and attribute the improvement to the stuff in the packet.

Unless there's a disease process present, the liver and kidneys are able to "detox" your system quite well on their own, as long as you drink enough water.


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## sails (13 April 2009)

gav said:


> There can be many reasons for this.  You could have cut your calories by too much, which will cause your body to hold fat. ...Gav.




Interesting you should say that, Gav.  This happened to me a few years ago when on a low carb/high protein to speed up some weight loss.  It was slow going, but the funny thing was when I reached my goal weight and started to re-introduce carbs again, I actually kept losing weight. Ended up losing another 5kgs unintentionally and got a bit scared when I hit 51kgs!

The problem is, I then had to eat so many carbs to try and stop the weight loss.  So when I finally got back up to the mid 50's, it became a struggle to stop the weight gain.

Since then I have found it best, as Julia describes above, to aim for a healthy and balanced diet.  A few kilos have sneaked back on due to some major disruptions in life in general, but there will be no more going back to those unbalanced diets.  

I have found by cutting out as much sugar as possible, it can help to reduce the hunger cravings.

I wish you the best in your weight loss quest, Mr Burns.  Suggest staying away from the fad diets.  Actually someone was telling me yesterday they have just joined up to weight watchers online - might be worth a look...


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## MrBurns (13 April 2009)

sails said:


> Interesting you should say that, Gav.  This happened to me a few years ago when on a low carb/high protein to speed up some weight loss.  It was slow going, but the funny thing was when I reached my goal weight and started to re-introduce carbs again, I actually kept losing weight. Ended up losing another 5kgs unintentionally and got a bit scared when I hit 51kgs!
> 
> The problem is, I then had to eat so many carbs to try and stop the weight loss.  So when I finally got back up to the mid 50's, it became a struggle to stop the weight gain.
> 
> ...




I stuck to the fruit all day but I do the cooking around here so *had* to have dinner, BUT I wont snack and that should make a difference, if not I'll go the hard way.

I agree with Julia too but also with kincella, if the easy way doesn't work I will just have to break the back of it with the kincella way which I suspect is what I need, I'll know in a few days.


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## waza1960 (13 April 2009)

I lost around 10 kilos last 8 months by changing certain aspects of my food intake one at a time first used to drink up to 6 cups of tea a day with 2 t/spoons of sugar /cup,first cut back to 1 t/spoon then no sugar then low fat milk,no alchohol during the week more fruit however didn't change the rest of my diet at all apart from the french approach to food which is not to eat junk food but only eat quality food which I really enjoy.The problem with some of the other suggestions is with the amount of motivation required is it really achievable in the long term?


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## So_Cynical (13 April 2009)

Can some one post a calorie chart...u know 1 carrot = 60 calories sorta thing.


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## weird (13 April 2009)

Lost 18 kilos in 2 months (8 weeks) following Tony Ferguson 9 months ago ... you do the shake and soup thing for breakfast and lunch, and fruit in between ... then follow a recipe book for meals at night ... abit of cooking time is required for the meals, because cutting up a lot of  veges etc , although some are quite easy to prepare.  

I did the 'weekly weigh in' at the stores or chemist, like Biggest Loser, which was quite a motivation for me at the time.  

They have a free forum, which is also quite inspirational.

Basically you cut out carbs, so your body goes into ketosis. 

And cut out alcohol during the time (I regularly ... whoops, that sounds bad, drink low carb beer now), and took multivitamins and fibre during that time. 

I found the program easy to follow, some people apparently find it hard.

However did drop from 88 to 70 kilos.

Was originally motivated after doing the GCC (Global Corporate Challenge) where they measure your waist etc before giving you a pedometer. My waist then was over 100  cm, which is not good.  

Anyhow, have kept the weight off now for 9 months, and all I basically do now is avoid too much carbs (don't eat massive amount of only fries, noodles etc type meals), and eat a lot more salads now than every use to.  

I am not that big on exercise, except walking, I always walk 10000 steps a day, and joined,

http://10000steps.org.au/

so have a pedometer strapped to me at almost all times.

I also took up surfing 1 year ago, which I do every weekend for about 2 hours ... don't do any other exercise.

I went to a free session with a Private Health ensurer, that had a nutritionist speak for 45 mins, her main advice was for a meal, 1/4 plate protein, 1/4 plate carbs, 1/2 veges, and eat a nut bar, like Be Natural in the afternoon. For breakfast, bake beans or eggs on toast (Burgen) is good.


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## matty2.0 (13 April 2009)

weird said:


> I am not that big on exercise, except walking, I always walk 10000 steps a day, and joined,




lol. 
I don't know how you lose weight if you don't exercise. Just seems illogical to me. 
As I said, losing weight is SIMPLE ... 

_calories in vs. calories out_

if you take in a lot of calories, you have to burn it off some how. If you don't use up the calories then ... you gain weight. 

so if you take in 1000 calories the only way you can really burn it quick enough is to exercise it all off ... 

now you can choose what sort of calories; protein, fat, or carbs. 
if you want to burn fat predominantly, then i suggest to eat more healty proteins and add some healthy carbs, like fruit and veggies, and cut out the fat. Now if you want to get more in depth and detailed, there are certain times of the day when you eat or workout where you will burn more fat than protein/carbs etc etc ... but we'll save that for another discussion. 

Simple. 

_"calories in, calories out"_


(note: Simple does not mean easy, quite hard work actually. But nobody said life was fair)


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## Julia (13 April 2009)

waza1960 said:


> French approach to food which is not to eat junk food but only eat quality food which I really enjoy.



That's a really good point, waza.  Sometimes we eat too much because we simply don't find what we're eating enjoyable and satisfying.

But if you plan a meal with quality ingredients, say some smoked salmon on avocado slices, preceding scallops poached in wine which is then reduced with fresh cream into a sauce, accompanied by a large tossed salad, followed by a perfect mango, then one good quality chocolate with coffee, you'll feel the sense of pleasure that comes from carefully selected and cooked food, as distinct to a great plateful of the ubiquitous spaghetti bolognese which must surely be the most disgusting stuff to ever be invented.

Imo you can have small amounts of e.g. cream or chocolate which offer maximum eating pleasure.  If your way of eating (I refuse to say 'diet') regularly offers small treats that prevents the sense of deprivation which causes so many people to take to the frig in a major binge of overeating.


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## MrBurns (13 April 2009)

Julia said:


> But if you plan a meal with quality ingredients, say some smoked salmon on avocado slices, preceding scallops poached in wine which is then reduced with fresh cream into a sauce, accompanied by a large tossed salad, followed by a perfect mango, then one good quality chocolate with coffee, you'll feel the sense of pleasure that comes from carefully selected and cooked food, as distinct to a great plateful of the ubiquitous spaghetti bolognese which must surely be the most disgusting stuff to ever be invented.
> .




I knew I was doing something wrong, must be great at your place.


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## weird (13 April 2009)

matty2.0 said:


> lol.
> I don't know how you lose weight if you don't exercise. Just seems illogical to me.
> As I said, losing weight is SIMPLE ...
> 
> ...




You're right ... losing weight is simple,and is simple maths. 

As you said calories in , calories out ... and if you work all day on a building site for 8 hours, or go to the gym 3-6 times a week, for 1 - 2 hours ... then the exercise thing may work in your favour ...

However start throwing in normal life things such as looking after kids, working in a job that may require 10-12 hours a day, including the former, or other activities such as 1 to 2 hour travel each way to work  ... it may be easier to focus on the 'calorie in' factor ... don't wish to put personal trainers out of business ... although won't for those with time availability, but honestly believe for 'weight loss', that it is probably more practical to focus on diet ... that is, what and how much you eat, and mostly it is still keeping you satisfied on a hunger level, particularly living in this day and age of a sedentary lifestyle, particularly with time pressures on modern parents.

Walking is an activity which is available to all, pushing a stroller around the park or block, or taking the stairs instead of the lift, getting off one extra station or bus stop before work and home , or going for a stroll at lunch.


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## matty2.0 (13 April 2009)

weird said:


> Walking is an activity which is available to all, pushing a stroller around the park or block, or taking the stairs instead of the lift, getting off one extra station or bus stop before work and home , or going for a stroll at lunch.




Walk? Mate ... you'll burn more calories running ... why walk when you can run?? Save time aswell ... 

On a serious note. 

Look, I'm fairly young. I admit, having kids are hard work. But you *chose *to have kids. So that means you have to make sacrifices there. 

As I like to say to myself; 

_"If it's important to you, you make the time" _ ... (and money).


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## weird (13 April 2009)

matty2.0 said:


> Walk? Mate ... you'll burn more calories running ... why walk when you can run?? Save time aswell ...
> 
> On a serious note.
> 
> ...




Understand what your saying, I just don't like running (even at the age of 36), I have a short muscular build, so was always a great sprinter, but not a long distance runner, also all the other activities I did as a kid has finally caught up and killed my knees, I don't wish to run if I don't need too ... I prefer swimming or cycling ... surfing (which if you head to the beach has all ages too) has a huge swimming aspect to it which I enjoy. Walking is good because almost anyone at any age finds it a very possible activity to do more of.

About kids, it was an example of what the majority of people will have as an additional 'natural' pressure in their life ... and this is a great thing, and once you speak to happy or even unhappy couples that have kids, this one aspect gives more meaning to their life than almost anything else, but that is for a completely different thread and not about weight loss, and doesn't pose much relevance in continuing discussing that, except people are becoming more time poor with other society pressures.

Anyhow, back more to relevant discussion, I had a craving for Oporto burger last week, and as usual they push you to the 'deal', drink and fries, I basically said I don't won't fries, and was happy to hear they offered a 'salad' alternative to the fries. This is very cool ... as alot of western meals , have this, have fries crap with everything .... anyhow, my sugestion, apart from my original post to this thread, is drop the fries, eat more salad.


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## matty2.0 (13 April 2009)

weird said:


> Anyhow, back more to relevant discussion, I had a craving for Oporto burger last week, and as usual they push you to the 'deal', drink and fries, I basically said I don't won't fries, and was happy to hear they offered a 'salad' alternative to the fries. This is very cool ... as alot of western meals , have this, have fries crap with everything .... anyhow, my sugestion, apart from my original post to this thread, is drop the fries, eat more salad.




Mate ... Oporto's is *processed *chicken. That stuff will kill ya. 
Try Nando's or go to Woolies and get some real chicken breast, cook it up before you go to work, and then eat it at work. More natural and high quality protein that way, and cheaper if you do it yourself. You got a wife ... tell her to do it if you're time poor.


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## metric (14 April 2009)

we moved here to the coast some 14 weeks ago. i changed my lifestyle somewhat and included more exercise, and less alcohol...and lost 6 kg in in 6 weeks in the process.

8 weeks ago i started body trim. add another 9kg in 8 weeks, and you come up with the 16kg ive lost in the 14 weeks weve been here.

i have 10kg to go, and i will be of the weight i was when i played league 20 years ago....and i carried very little fat back then.

body trim is the easiest weight loss eating plan ive followed. it makes sense, is based on observation and science, and it works!! you will never feel hungry, you will have more energy, and you WILL lose weight!

BT is a low carb diet. it makes your body work harder for its carbs. your body ends up going to its reserves for carbs, which equals fat loss.

as well as steak, fish, chicken, etc, i include tofu, beans, sushimi, and eggs as a protien source. no carrots, pumpkin, or carbs; potato, rice, pasta, bread, etc.

meals are mostly protien and salad or veges. you have 1 day per week where anything goes. chocolate, ice cream, mashed spuds etc, all ok. but the next day is protien only. its called zig zag, and it tricks your body into releasing fat stores instead of going into famine mode, and saving fat.

BT is about $200 for the cd's, books, etc.

there is no better investment, than to invest in yourself...

edit. and just reading above. on BT, walking is the only exercise. heavy exercise BUILDS muscle, gains weight. so if you are trying to SLIM down and LOSE weight, follow the programme. unless you want to become the worlds greatest athlete, and want to follow an athletes workout schedule, walking is all you need to do to lose weight quickly....i have!! 10000 steps a day is the goal.


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## Solly (14 April 2009)

Mr Burns...

*Last year I ate 12 Easter eggs.. this year I just went for a walk*

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2374103.ece


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## Prospector (14 April 2009)

matty2.0 said:


> lol.
> I don't know how you lose weight if you don't exercise. Just seems illogical to me.
> As I said, losing weight is SIMPLE ...




And I can say in my experience that losing weight isnt simple.  Nor is it exercise dependent.  I had been going to the gym for three sessions of high exercise a week for maybe four years.  And never having been a big eater, I was astounded to find I could not budge the six extra kilos I had put on after surgery about five years ago.

Then, three days of the lemon detox diet, and changing the type of food I eat (while never a big carb eater as I have slight gluten intolerance) I ate more fresh vegetables and slightly reduced the size of my evening meal, dropped the wine in favour of gin and soda, and STOPPED the exercise, the six kilos came off within a couple of weeks.  Five months later, including holidays, they have stayed off.  And I havent returned to the same gym routine either.

I do admit I am hypothyroid (basically have no thyroid function at all due to autoimmune disease) but not a typical one in that I am not, other than this 6 now-lost kilos, overweight.  Maybe that changes the equation.

I am not a believer in running either.  Might lose the weight a bit faster but can create other problems in later years.  Walking is a much better option for exercise.

I just dont buy foods that will tempt me and arent good for me.  Chocolate is my downfall, I find if I buy very good quality, like Haighs chocolate, or Lindt for you poor sods who dont have Haighs, then 1 piece is satisfying and I dont crave more.  Although one poor Lindt Easter Bunny got eaten in 1 hit on Sunday night.  Oh well.....


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## Pappon (14 April 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Might be good to have hints and tips about how to lose weight.
> 
> For me , I'm about 10 kg overweight not huge but enough to make me uncomfortable and I cannot get rid of it, it's purely psychological.
> 
> ...






Hi Mr Burns

I am a competitive bodybuilder if you want any tips for extreme fat loss give me a yell it's a passion of mine and i like helping people with it just for proof you can check my photos 

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=619617004&ref=profile&nctrct=1239668752640


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## MrBurns (14 April 2009)

Pappon said:


> Hi Mr Burns
> 
> I am a competitive bodybuilder if you want any tips for extreme fat loss give me a yell it's a passion of mine and i like helping people with it just for proof you can check my photos
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=619617004&ref=profile&nctrct=1239668752640




Thanks Pappon, I'm getting mentally prepared to go cold turkey, the kincella way, *this is making me mad and I'm not gunna to take it anymore !!!*

Bought rockmelon this morning.

I'l keep you informed of any progress.


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## kincella (14 April 2009)

good onya burnsie....and remember to drink the water instead of a meal...it does work...not the head or thoughts,  the stomach might say it needs a snack...so give it some water and its happy
and what are you doing about the boredom ???
where is the closest driving range for you to get in some practice ?
when I lived out in the bush at  Mt Waverly..I used to go to the Knox driving range, had lessons at Riversdale, then at Box Hill....later decided I did not have enough time to play golf....
so took up tennis


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## Pappon (14 April 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Thanks Pappon, I'm getting mentally prepared to go cold turkey, the kincella way, *this is making me mad and I'm not gunna to take it anymore !!!*
> 
> Bought rockmelon this morning.
> 
> I'l keep you informed of any progress.




Try to keep the starchy carbs as minimal as possible (hopefully none) at night that's the best thing i could offer. To many carbs blunts the bodys release of HGH (human growth hormone, hollywood stars love it cause it makes you look younger and burns fat very well) at night, hgh uses body fat very efficiently as a fuel source so blunting it at night is going to hampen fat loss efforts. 

Powerwalk in the morning(30-45mins) with a black coffee, the caffiene will mobilise fatty acids as fuel and send it into your bloodstream for use, hence you burn *fat *quicker


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## MrBurns (14 April 2009)

kincella said:


> good onya burnsie....and remember to drink the water instead of a meal...it does work...not the head or thoughts,  the stomach might say it needs a snack...so give it some water and its happy
> and what are you doing about the boredom ???
> where is the closest driving range for you to get in some practice ?
> when I lived out in the bush at  Mt Waverly..I used to go to the Knox driving range, had lessons at Riversdale, then at Box Hill....later decided I did not have enough time to play golf....
> so took up tennis





Driving range at Bulleen but the balls there are crap, rather go to La Trobe but it's a fair bit further, you can hit off grass there if you like so thats good.
Freeway Golf Bulleen will have a new range in by the end of the year, automatic ball popup and everything so looking forward to that.

Had a colonoscopy a few weeks ago, first time, everything ok, but the preparation was not eating the day before , I got through ok, glass of water every hour, so if I can do it then I should be able to do it any time I choose, ........as I said mind over matter.

Thanks for the support


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## MrBurns (14 April 2009)

Pappon said:


> Try to keep the starchy carbs as minimal as possible (hopefully none) at night that's the best thing i could offer. To many carbs blunts the bodys release of HGH (human growth hormone, hollywood stars love it cause it makes you look younger and burns fat very well) at night, hgh uses body fat very efficiently as a fuel source so blunting it at night is going to hampen fat loss efforts.
> 
> Powerwalk in the morning(30-45mins) with a black coffee, the caffiene will mobilise fatty acids as fuel and send it into your bloodstream for use, hence you burn *fat *quicker




and thanks for that too


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## kincella (14 April 2009)

Mr Burns...
I assume you are a moderate person, and  will only eat the quarter of melon at a meal...not the whole thing....don't want you to dehydrate too quickly...

about the water...I use one glass instead of the meal....and how much fluid, well count the alcohol, coffee or teas in the total fluid count...I dont drink more than 2-3 glasses  of water a day...as I have all the other fluids above.
so please dont drink lots of water....or too many fluids

its ironic...drinking the water to save eating all the fat and calories, then the melon will flush the water/liquids out of your system....

there is a limit on how much water one can drink a day...a women in the UK recently went on a water diet...she drank 8 litres in one day and was dead the next....
just 8 glasses , even that is questionable....would be the maximum...depends on your current weight

heres a link..woman drank 6 litres in 3 hours and died...and more infor on how much to drink

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=strange-but-true-drinking-too-much-water-can-kill


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## MrBurns (14 April 2009)

kincella said:


> Mr Burns...
> I assume you are a moderate person, and  will only eat the quarter of melon at a meal...not the whole thing....don't want you to dehydrate too quickly...
> 
> about the water...I use one glass instead of the meal....and how much fluid, well count the alcohol, coffee or teas in the total fluid count...I dont drink more than 2-3 glasses  of water a day...as I have all the other fluids above.
> ...




I never knew that about melon, see how I go.

Years ago I followed a Chi book that had a section on cleansing, drank, cant remember how much, water in the morning, couple of litres I think, or more, gee does THAT clear you out, if ever you have problems there try that but dont leave the house for a while.


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## Pappon (14 April 2009)

kincella said:


> Mr Burns...
> I assume you are a moderate person, and  will only eat the quarter of melon at a meal...not the whole thing....don't want you to dehydrate too quickly...
> 
> about the water...I use one glass instead of the meal....and how much fluid, well count the alcohol, coffee or teas in the total fluid count...I dont drink more than 2-3 glasses  of water a day...as I have all the other fluids above.
> ...




"I dont drink more than 2-3 glasses  of water a day"  

You body needs to be hydrated to effectively burn body fat, deyhdration will also lower the body's metabolism


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## kincella (14 April 2009)

I drink 3 cups  coffee until early afternoon, and alcohol in the evening...so I get my fill of liquids...if I drank more I would feel bloated


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## Pappon (14 April 2009)

kincella said:


> I drink 3 cups  coffee until early afternoon, and alcohol in the evening...so I get my fill of liquids...if I drank more I would feel bloated




coffee is a diuretic it bleeds you of water much like a falling share bleeds you of capital with out a stop loss lol, alcohol cmon were talking about weight loss here.


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## glenn_r (14 April 2009)

I've had a fair bit of success with the bodytrim system, it's a low carb high protein diet with low impact walking for exercise.

It's more like a lifestyle change than a crash diet, the guy who created it is a character but very motivated in helping people.

They offer a free trial  www.bodytrim.com.au


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## kincella (14 April 2009)

its the lifestyle I am used to....and needing to lose between 5-10 kg...its not too big a deal
I dont do anything to disrupt my life too much...was basically a tee totaller most of my life....thought about giving up the grog....its just easy to have a couple of glasses...and I get a good nights sleep....de stress factor...


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## Pappon (14 April 2009)

glenn_r said:


> I've had a fair bit of success with the bodytrim system, it's a low carb high protein diet with low impact walking for exercise.
> 
> It's more like a lifestyle change than a crash diet, the guy who created it is a character but very motivated in helping people.
> 
> They offer a free trial  www.bodytrim.com.au




Buy a protein powder matey, you will save heaps of money and you can add fibre and good slow burning carbs to make it into a shake/breakfast.

Most of those systems have sugars that you don't need in them and are WAY overpriced


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## Pappon (14 April 2009)

glenn_r said:


> I've had a fair bit of success with the bodytrim system, it's a low carb high protein diet with low impact walking for exercise.
> 
> It's more like a lifestyle change than a crash diet, the guy who created it is a character but very motivated in helping people.
> 
> They offer a free trial  www.bodytrim.com.au




Just looked at it, it basically is a protein powder and seems reasonably priced. I thought it was one of those Tony Ferguson optifast garbage stuff


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## glenn_r (14 April 2009)

Pappon said:


> Buy a protein powder matey, you will save heaps of money and you can add fibre and good slow burning carbs to make it into a shake/breakfast.
> 
> Most of those systems have sugars that you don't need in them and are WAY overpriced




No it's not a protein powder diet, it a real food protein diet you need to watch his DVD to get a better understanding but basically don't eat potatoes, rice, pasta, sugar, bread, fruit, but eat lean meat, fish with lotsa veggies/salad and have 3 meals and 3 snacks per day. 

The theory is as I understand it the low carb (sugar) high protein intake causes the body to not produce high amounts of insulin which allows the body to just burn the fat as when there is a high amount of insulin in the body the fat is stored.

I also walk the mongrel Rottweiler 3 times a week for about 45mins

I basically do this Monday to Friday and as is recommended in the diet plan, you have a "free" day (I have 2 Sat & Sun) where you can eat what you like (carbs) to wake up your metabolism, the Monday is normally a strict no carb day for me.

The first 10 kg fell off, the next 5 came off fairly quick and now I'm losing .5 to 1kg a week with no real pain, my target is to lose a total of 25kg which I have accumulated after I stopped smoking a few years ago.

The biggest thing to this diet being successful is prior planning and prepare your food the day before, although the diet is probably expensive due to the amount of protein you need, the quality of life makes it worth it.


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## Ageo (14 April 2009)

Get on the P90X, i find it to be the most balanced of all training programs (and i played soccer for all my life and did it professionally for a while). It gives you endurance, agility, power, strength, and flexibility. 


http://www.beachbody.com/product/fitness_programs/p90x.do?code=P90XDOTCOM

P.S i dont follow the diet plan but if you want the best results then of course thats the best way. From what i can see the diet isnt about less food but the types of food you consume. Its a whole program thow and i do it from home.


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## Kez180 (14 April 2009)

'Starting Strength' By Mark Rippetoe and Lon Kilgore is a great place to start for fat loss...

There are high seed torrents out there...

Especially for guys, but defiantly for girls as well, the best way to lose weight is to pick up something heavy, and lift it over your head...

Diet is also very important... Complex carbs, protein, and vitamins (All from food, **** the supplements off)

Give white bread, cheesecake and battered savs a miss...


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## Julia (14 April 2009)

kincella said:


> I drink 3 cups  coffee until early afternoon, and alcohol in the evening...so I get my fill of liquids...if I drank more I would feel bloated



Kincella, coffee and alcohol both have a diuretic effect(i.e. increased passing of fluids in the urine)  so unless you are also drinking at least a litre a day of water, you will be risking becoming dehydrated. Chronic dehydration will damage your kidney function.
You need a reasonable amount of water for the kidneys to function properly.
In even moderate dehydration the kidneys have a very sensitive mechanism which detects insufficient fluid, and they will then 'instruct' the body to release aldosterone, which promotes the reabsorption of sodium, thus retaining fluid in the cells.  This may be why you are experiencing a bloated sensation.

If you limit the coffee and alcohol and drink more water, the aldosterone mechanism won't be activated and your body will not be so likely to retain fluid.  Carbohydrate will also encourage fluid retention.  This is why people who have previously consumed a lot of carbs will lose a considerable amount of weight if cutting out the carbs and having high protein, raw juices and vegetable diet.  The apparent weight loss is largely fluid.


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## gav (14 April 2009)

WARNING: This first post is more of a rant, but does have information relevant to weight loss.  I'll go more into weight loss in my next post.

There are many, many ways to lose weight.  I bet Mr Burns would lose weight if he follows what Kennas posted above.  However such immediate radical changes are not sustainable over the long term.  Your average joe would make it half way through and quit.  Even if Mr Burns is strong willed and makes it through the month, it is not realistic to expect he can continue eating like this everyday, especially when you consider he has told us how much he loves his food and alcohol.



kennas said:


> No need to go further with exercise, you'll start developing too many muscles that need to be treated with extra food. Just keep walking and jogging.




I am not surprised by this statement, considering some the crap that is being taught these days...  Even if Mr Burns has fantastic genetics, I guarantee Mr Burns will not gain large amounts of muscle mass simply by running – especially with the diet you have posted above!  When I was a Personal Trainer I often was told by female clients: “I don’t want to do weights because I don’t want to get too big”.  What people dont understand is that to gain serious muscle you have to train seriously hard in a manner which will encourage growth, and eat seriously big.  I am sure Pappon can back me up on that one.

What is worse is that many "academics" today see weights as the enemy.  It it not necessary to train with weights to lose weight, but it can help too.  When done correctly, weight training is not just anaerobic training, it is an aerobic too.   As Mr Burns stated earlier, he still loves his food.  The more lean muscle mass you have, the more calories your body will burn.  If he had extra lean muscle mass, he would be able to eat more without gaining fat.  Weight training is also very good for your posture and joints, when done correctly.  Also, what is the point of losing weight, just to have flabby un-toned arms?  



kennas said:


> I reckon Gav will be in heaps of trouble *once he finishes training and eating well*. The muscle won't turn to fat (impossible), but his reduction in training intensity and increased caloric intake will be hard to manage. Good luck!




What on earth makes you think I’ll ever stop eating well?  Eating healthy is very important to me, even if I decided to give up the weights.  You don’t need to train like a bodybuilder to eat healthy.  And what makes you think I’ll give up the weights?  There are 60+ year old bodybuilders that still compete, and look fantastic.  They have lasted as long as they have in bodybuilding by eating well and training safely.  I’m not saying I’ll still be bodybuilding at that age (who knows, I might!), but I bet eating healthy will always be a big part of my life.  The reason I eat so much is due to my training.  There is no way I could 4500 calories a day (like I am at the moment) if I was not training.  If I stopped training, I would eat significantly less. I would also lose a fair amount of my muscle mass due to my genetics.  I am an ectomorph (struggle to gain weight), however my body is very affective at losing weight (which is great for me when I am dieting for a comp).

The "academics" in the fitness world seem to think weight training is the devil.  It is these same academics who come up with the seemingly popular BMI (body mass index), which is a simple math equation based on your height to weight ratio that tells you if you are over weight or not.  They will tell you it works on the vast majority of the population, with the exception athletes who carry large amounts of muscle.  Damn straight it doesn't  - it says that I am obese.  Yet I am 12% bodyfat.  However, what about people who have a thicker bone structure than others?  (eg Pacific Islanders, or people with certain European backgrounds) They too may have very little bodyfat but because of their thick bone structure will be put in the overweight or obese categories.  If these people are carrying just the slightest amount too much fat, it can send them deep into the obese category, when they may only just miss the healthy BMI range if they had an average built frame.  What about people with small bone structures?  Such as petite people, or the elderly? (elderly tend to have a lot less bone mass)  Their frames are much smaller.  Which means they can carry MORE bodyfat, without falling into the overweight category.

I remember having this debate with the tutor on my Personal Training course a few years ago.  They could not answer me and I kept pushing the subject, so I went to one of the people who played a role in writing the course at the Australian Institute of Fitness.  I asked why is it that only athletes with large amounts of muscle mass are excluded from the BMI, when there are so many other areas of the population that the BMI also fails (like I mentioned above).  He simply repeatedly told me that the data they had collected, the BMI is accurate for the majority of the population.  Did not answer my question at all.  I felt like asking if he had printed his PhD off the internet, but I knew that would not help me in finding out any answers.  

I then said "All statistics suggest that obesity is the number one factor when it comes to heart and cardiovascular related disease".  He said "correct".  I then showed him a report from the UK (which had collected data from thousands of people).  I said "Well these statistics show that less than half the people in the UK that have heart or cardiovascular related disease are overweight or obese according to their BMI."  The report also showed that a more accurate way of finding out if someone was obese was by calculating their hip to waist ratio.  He had no answer, and simply regurgitated the crap he fed me earlier.  These people are designing courses based on out information that is incorrect, and they don't even care.  It is of no surprise that Australia is now the fattest nation on Earth.


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## gav (14 April 2009)

Weight Loss Help.

Not that it holds much weight (pardon the pun), but I am a qualified Gym Instructor and Personal Trainer.  I no longer do it for a living.  I have learnt a the majority of my training and nutritional knowledge through my bodybuilding experiences.  Many of these principles can be used for ANYONE who wishes to gain muscle, lose weight, training for a specific sport, or recovering from an injury.  My partner is also a qualified naturopath (no longer practices), and health/fitness plays a very large role in our lives.

Mr Burns, it is difficult to tell by your post how serious you are about losing the weight (you must be somewhat serious for making the post), or how committed you are willing to be to lose the weight.  This plays a huge factor, and I briefly touched on it when replying to Kennas posts.  As a Personal Trainer I need to understand the commitment and willpower of the client.  If I change things too much too early for someone is doesn't have a strong willpower, they will simply give up.  If I only make baby changes to someone who is 100% dedicated and will do anything it takes, they will be unmotivated by slow results and also give up.  This is even more important when you are doing your weight journey alone, as Mr Burns seems to be - as you have very little external motivation.

There are many different types of diets - Atkins, cyclic carb, high protein, low fat, low carb, and many others - like some that have already been stated in this thread. I will not recommend a particular diet, unless you really want me to.  There is no "one fits all" answer, apart from the basic rule that calories consumed must be less than calories expended (and even that does not work for everybody, which I will go into later).  The sad reality is, most people already know what foods to eat and what to do to lose the majority of the weight they are trying to lose.  They simply lack the motivation.  My aim is to not only help people lose or gain weight, but to help them sustain it once they have reached their goal.

*Knowledge is power.*

Whether its weight loss or weight gain, diet is far more more important than your training.  And knowledge of food is just as important as eating it.  Understanding the four macro nutrients (protein, carbs, fat, alcohol), what they do in our bodies is very important, and how many calories each contains.  Carbs can be broken down into low and high GI (glycemic index).  Fats can be split into saturated and non-saturated, and can be further broken down into transaturated, non-transaturated, polyunsaturated, and monounsaturated.  Learn how to understand food labels and read them at the supermarket.  

The more you understand nutrition, the better prepared you will be to acheiving your weight loss (or gain) goals.  Mr Burns this is particularly important to you.  You said you love your food and alcohol.  Once you have lost your goal 10KG, and have a better understanding of how food works, you will be able to make room in your diet for your "treat" foods and alcohol - and still keep your new slim physique.  This is exactly what is needed to help somebody like you to keep the weight off.  Being able to sustain this as a lifestyle change is crucial - then you will never need to "diet" again.

*Calories consumed VS Calories expended.*

Calories consumed can be calculated.  Calories expended is how much energy we burn throughout the day.  If we eat more calories than expend, you will gain weight.  If you eat less than you expend, you will lose weight.  A physically active person can eat more calories than a sedentry person and still lose weight, as long as they are consuming less than they expend.  So if you are a food (or alcohol) lover, its time to get physical and start burning those calories!

Diet (calories consumed) is the most important factor when it comes to losing weight.  You can get away with little to no training at all, and still lose weight - if you plan your diet correctly. I do not know why anybody would not want to exercise, but you can still lose weight without it.

*Doing everything right but still not losing weight*

If you have truly taken the time to understand nutrition and training and are still not seeing any results, I suggest you see an experienced Personal Trainer, who has proven results.  If then you are still not losing weight, then there could have thyroid or hormonal problems.  These problems are used as an excuse by many, but in reality only account for about 5% of all overweight people.  All GP's can do blood tests, but many GP's do not understand the full range of tests that are required.  And the blood tests they suggest may not show the full picture.  For example, if you told a GP you had weight loss issues and believe it may be thyroid or hormone related, they would ask for TSH for thyroid and testosterone count.  These can come back fine, suggesting you do not have a problem - which may not be the case.  GP's generally do not ask for RT3 count for thyroid, or LH/FSH count for testosterone - which can give a more in depth perspective of what is going on.  You are better off seeing a specialist such as an Endocrinologist.

Anyway, I hope the information I have provided is of some use Mr Burns.  Remember "Knowledge is power".  No one expects you to be super strict or healthy every single day.  When armed with knowledge, you can be a fit, healthy Mr Burns and still enjoy your food and alcohol.


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## Ageo (14 April 2009)

Gav just after your opinion on this, what do you think is more healthier to eat

A wild boar from the mountains of hill end or a chicken from your local supermarket?


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## gav (14 April 2009)

Ageo said:


> Gav just after your opinion on this, what do you think is more healthier to eat
> 
> A wild boar from the mountains of hill end or a chicken from your local supermarket?




I don't know anything about the mountains of hill end, but I'd definitely say a wild boar.  I actually go through quite a bit of chicken breast (3-4KG per week), unfortunately I don't have easy access to affordable wild meat.

Was that supposed to be a trick question?


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## MrBurns (15 April 2009)

I Can relate to a lot of what you sat gav, I have a real desire to lose weight and have many reasons to do so, my willpower is spasmodic, I vacillate between strong and "oh well doesn't matter" I know from experience giving up smoking years ago that your mind plays tricks on you to let you do want you want, makes excuses, lessens resolve. "one cigarette wont hurt" " just one spring roll is ok" when neither are ok, but at the time you really believe it is, or you just suspend your resolve long enough to give in momentarily.

As I said earlier I do the shopping and cooking so it\s a bit harder , ever food shopped when you're hungry ? You arrive home with all the goodies that YOU like and of course you give in.

I'm not hugely fat but the extra weight makes me feel lousy, some people stack it on and feel fine not me.

I believe exercise is important but I believe what goes in your mouth is more important, my metabolism is low I guess so every bit of sugar or fat has full impact.

Thats why I lean toward kincellsas method of calorie restriction without compromise to break the back of it, if I can drop 5k I'll be well on my way to success, then of course I have to change to make it permanent, need to change the way I eat, for good.

Appreciate all the help and will continue trying.

Yeah I know "Just do it" (thats a great slogan)


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## kincella (15 April 2009)

Burnsie....at least you know the pitfalls of shopping when hungry....so have that little bit of something first...so you are not hungry

Julia thanks for the explanation....I knew I may need more water.

everyone is very supportive....I like that attitude


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## Aussiejeff (15 April 2009)

MrBurns said:


> I Can relate to a lot of what you sat gav, I have a real desire to lose weight and have many reasons to do so, my willpower is spasmodic, I vacillate between strong and "oh well doesn't matter" I know from experience giving up smoking years ago that your mind plays tricks on you to let you do want you want, makes excuses, lessens resolve. "one cigarette wont hurt" " just one spring roll is ok" when neither are ok, but at the time you really believe it is, or you just suspend your resolve long enough to give in momentarily.
> 
> As I said earlier I do the shopping and cooking so it\s a bit harder , ever food shopped when you're hungry ? You arrive home with all the goodies that YOU like and of course you give in.
> 
> ...




You have your own answer right there in that one statement, Mr B!

When I joined the Army in '69, I was already a moderately heavy smoker & weighed 86kg (6 feet 6 inch frame), at the lower range of what would be a healthy BMI (abt 90kg) for me.

When I gave up smoking 2-3 packs a day 28 years ago - using willpower alone - after a myriad of failed attempts trying to "cut back slowly", I weighed 90kg. Apart from realising my chronic coughing was some way related to my puffing, the final act that galvanised my willpower to STOP SMOKING was to buy a whole large carton of my favorite ciggies and methodically crush each one of those filthy cancer sticks and watch my hard-earned money (I was on a pretty paltry wage at the time) go into the garbage bin. It worked. Somehow I managed to deny all offers by friends and acquaintances of "just one, mate". Lost a few so-called "friends" in the process along the way, too. I had become too "anti-social" by continually refusing their "kind" offers. That was my introduction to one of the downsides of becoming a "social pariah" in the eyes of some of my acquaintances. I had become a "tobacco tee-totaller". Having realised I was really serious about quitting, my dear supportive wife also gave up puffing using "will-power" alone a week later. We have both NEVER touched one since.  

However, we both still drank "moderately". Like yourself, as the years have passed (more swiftly over time it seems) the "bodily flab" spread silently, insidiously. Before I gave up the grog, I weighed around 110kg - well above my ideal BMI - and I was starting to feel the effects of dragging that weight around ie: more fatigue, nausea, reflux etc etc. So, we both decided to give up guzzling booze (ave. about 2 bots of wine a day between us) just over 2 years ago - using nothing but our tried & tested "will-power alone" method. I'll be damned, Mr B., but it actually worked! I managed to get back to 105kg just by that alone - no other change to lifestyle whatsoever. My better half also lost a few kilos, but she is much smaller than I so the loss was comparable. Of course, the social impact of going "tee-total" a second time was also noticeable. Not so many invites to parties, pubs etc, & when you DO manage to get an invite you cop the inevitable jibes. Meh. So be it. We had both determined our health was going to be the most important factor. More money in the pocket was a pleasant side benefit. 

However, when I broke my ankle back in Aug/Sep and then my little toe in October last year, the recuperation and initial lack of much walking or cycling exercise took its toll on my weight again - I ballooned out to 112kg and felt terrible as I struggled to deal with it. I was suffering more and more from terrible reflux, heartburn, bouts of gas, constipation - you name it, man.

So, 2 months ago, at 112kg, I made the decision to change my lifestyle PERMANENTLY. So,

(1) Gave up drinking milk. Mainly herbal tea & occasional coffee, black. 

(2) Gave up eating bread. Eat rice or corn thins if I have to as a substitute. Any bread made from processed flour / yeast has given me bad gas and bloating for years anyway. 

(3) Gave up eating margarine or butter. Don't add any to cooked veg. Amazingly, raw veges taste BETTER now with NO added marg or butter!

(4) Started and have continued serving smaller portion sizes for dinner on SMALL plates. It works! 

(5) Gave up regular once or twice a week "feel good" treats like desserts, cakes, chocolate. Now NEVER have at home - only have a small piece very rarely - eg if offered at a function or someone's birthday party. No need to offend completely!

Well, since starting that regime 2 months ago, I have lost an amazing 16kg! Back to 96 today! No change in my exercise routine (usually 45 mins of moderate walking each day if we can manage). I'm aiming for that 90kg mark and should be able to make slight adjustment to extra veges or fruit if I need to hold that weight. Of course, my dear wife has also agreed to come on this new healthier journey in our twilight years and has also dropped a size - almost two now! My, she looks so much... younger! 

The reflux has almost gone completely, bloating is a thing of the too recent past, nausea - what's that?, MY KNEES feel 10 years younger - can walk up and down hills MUCH faster now.

So, there you have it Mr Burns. Willpower and ONLY willpower has and is working for us. Not to say everyone can do it. But crikey mate, we can't be unique? If WE can change our lifestyle permanently, then I'm sure YOU can do the same.

GOOD LUCK in your endeavour to dish some "tough love" to yourself. It's the best lovin' you will get.

LOL


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## Ageo (15 April 2009)

gav said:


> I don't know anything about the mountains of hill end, but I'd definitely say a wild boar.  I actually go through quite a bit of chicken breast (3-4KG per week), unfortunately I don't have easy access to affordable wild meat.
> 
> Was that supposed to be a trick question?




Hi Gav and thanks for the response, the reason i ask is because my bro inlaw along with many of his body building mates are dead set thinking that low fat is the only way to go, but little does he realise that the chicken he eats is low fat but contains alot of un-natural breeding techniques and chemicals of some form for faster production. You see for me i like natural food and id rather eat say pork chops from a wild boar (which is higher in fat content) but i know the fat is natural, untouched and the beast is untamped with compared to a chicken who is grown within a few weeks. 

Im just trying to get healthy people's views on this, i mean in Italy they eat ****loads of pasta and consume lots of olive oil but the difference is the pasta is from the freshest source and the olive oil normally comes from a local farm (in certain parts of Italy especially the southern part). Now over there they have a very small obesity problem, and the reason is this: take away food is fresh pizza and other produce, you dont see subway,KFC etc.... (only the odd Mac's here and there for tourists). I noticed the other night on 60min a biotech food lady came on and said natural food is the best for you, forget low fat this, low carb that, GI free this etc....

I mean from 1950's and before what was wrong with the diet of most people? there was no fat epidemic etc... but i believe there wasnt much food commercialization either so the food came from local and fresh produce.

Your views?


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## kincella (15 April 2009)

grew up on the meat and 3 veg plan...with dessert every night...home made of course...sunday roast, trifle, apple pie...scones etc
I dont eat chicken...believe there is too much other stuff in there, and the size of some in safeway looks more like a turkey....but La Ionica have free range chickens...all natural and they look like the tiny little things we used to have on our farm...ie normal sized chooks and chicken.
since the family grew up and moved away...no longer have the meat and 3 vegies...
had an active lifestyle living on a farm...so could eat as much as I wanted...
hardly ever ate between meals...just looked forward to the good stuff

saw an article once...eating an extra slice of bread a day or was it a week, can add 5 kgs a year...agree get rid of the bread, and any of those cardboard snacks..and nothing in between meals
http://www.laionica.com.au/main.html


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## Pappon (15 April 2009)

An insight into what Gav and myself would do to "strip" off fat down to the 3-4% range 

upon waking
5g Glutamine
5g BCAAs
strong black coffee
30-45min powerwalk

Meal 1
1 protein shake (35g protein)
Oats (in water splenda to sweeten roughly 30g carbs)
1 teaspoon of flaxseed oil
multivitamin

Meal 2
1 tin of tuna (roughly 30g protein)
basmalti rice (roughly 30g carbs)

Meal 3
1 chickenbreast (roughly 45g protein)
1 sweet potato (roughly 40g carbs)
broccili

Meal 4 
same as meal 4

Train hard and heavy 1 hr

Meal 5 (after weights) 
1 protein shake (35g protein)
multidextrose mix (roughly 20g carbs)
5g BCAA
10g Glutamine

Meal 5 
Salmon or Lean steak or chickenbreast (roughly 45g protein)
salad (2 teaspoons olive oil for dressing) or fibre type veggies (no peas or corn = starchy) if veggies are had after the meal 2 teaspoons of natural peanut butter (for healthy fats)
5g glutamine


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## kincella (15 April 2009)

Mr Burns...just wondering if you have noticed any benefits from the melon  yet....any extra trips to the bathroom....watching  the weight falling off...going down the gurgler ?
cheers
do you mind being called Burnsie ?


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## Happy (15 April 2009)

Pappon said:


> 5g Glutamine
> ..
> 5g glutamine




It is administered twice, with first and last meal.

Could you tell me what is the significance of it for the dieting body?
And why is time of consumption important?


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## MrBurns (15 April 2009)

kincella said:


> Mr Burns...just wondering if you have noticed any benefits from the melon  yet....any extra trips to the bathroom....watching  the weight falling off...going down the gurgler ?
> cheers
> do you mind being called Burnsie ?




I dont think melon effects me that way, never noticed it.

How much of it should Ieat to get the desired affect ?

Also if you take multi vitamins for a month then stop dod you feel flat or listless ?

Call me what you like


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## Pappon (15 April 2009)

Happy said:


> It is administered twice, with first and last meal.
> 
> Could you tell me what is the significance of it for the dieting body?
> And why is time of consumption important?




Intense weight training lowers the bodys reserves of glutamine, with glutamine being a large component of the immune system supplementation is therefore beneficial for the hard training athlete to prevent illness and overtraining.

Glutmaine also plays a role in protein synthesis which is in favor of bodybuilders looking to increase lean mass.

The dosage after a workout is very important to prevent lowered levels of glutamine in the body for the above reason. It's normally spreadout throught the day to keep the levels high.


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## gouryella (15 April 2009)

Thank you Gav and Pappon, finally people with some common sense! There is so much mis-information out there these days, it really does frustrate me sometimes. I am 22 years old, have been training for a number of years, I have done a Personal Training course (which honestly made me dumber!) but decided not to enter the industry because to succeed I would have had to sell-out and compromise my own beliefs.

I was typing a reply to this thread a couple of days ago, but hit the close button half way through. I've tried to help too many people in the past, only to have them disregard my advice thinking they know better, or lapse into their old habits again because they just didn't have the desire or mental strength to change.

You have to feed your body what it *needs*, not the comfort and junk foods you crave.


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## MrBurns (15 April 2009)

gouryella said:


> You have to feed your body what it *needs*, not the comfort and junk foods you crave.




That's another one I can think of when in the supermarket


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## gouryella (15 April 2009)

Good luck with it Burns.

Successful trading and investing takes discipline, eating should be no different. After a while it just becomes second nature and you don't even crave bad foods.

As they say, your health is your number one asset.


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## Pappon (15 April 2009)

gouryella said:


> Thank you Gav and Pappon, finally people with some common sense! There is so much mis-information out there these days, it really does frustrate me sometimes. I am 22 years old, have been training for a number of years, I have done a Personal Training course (which honestly made me dumber!) but decided not to enter the industry because to succeed I would have had to sell-out and compromise my own beliefs.
> 
> I was typing a reply to this thread a couple of days ago, but hit the close button half way through. I've tried to help too many people in the past, only to have them disregard my advice thinking they know better, or lapse into their old habits again because they just didn't have the desire or mental strength to change.
> 
> You have to feed your body what it *needs*, not the comfort and junk foods you crave.




Gouryella i COULD NOT AGREE WITH YOU MORE!! Results speak for themselves pics attached.

Unfortuantely the fitness industry is full of absolutely WOEFUL personal trainers that have picked up a slip saying they know it all. At the end of the day i'd say 90% of Pts can't even look after themselves because they don't even know how. 

There's so many myths about eating for fat loss not helped by the media reporting on celebrities that themselves are useless grapefruit diet, soup diets Pfftt give me a break. Look where it got OPRAH that lady is one big fat oompa loompa herself and *she never got it together*


----------



## Happy (15 April 2009)

Pappon said:


> ...
> The dosage after a workout is very important to prevent lowered levels of glutamine in the body for the above reason. It's normally spreadout throught the day to keep the levels high.




Thanks for info.

Another few questions would be:

 How do you know that you have enough of glutamine ?
 Is it possible to have too much?
 How would you know where you are with this supplement (are there any symptoms to prompt you either way to increase or decrease dosage)?


----------



## Pappon (15 April 2009)

Happy said:


> Thanks for info.
> 
> Another few questions would be:
> 
> ...




There has not been any reported side effects from overuse of glutamine, if you feel run down chances are your on the low side so add another 5g. If your not run down stick with your current dosage.

My routine is basically

5g in the morning
10g after weights in a shake
5g before bed


----------



## gouryella (15 April 2009)

Pappon said:


> Gouryella i COULD NOT AGREE WITH YOU MORE!! Results speak for themselves pics attached.
> 
> Unfortuantely the fitness industry is full of absolutely WOEFUL personal trainers that have picked up a slip saying they know it all. At the end of the day i'd say 90% of Pts can't even look after themselves because they don't even know how.
> 
> There's so many myths about eating for fat loss not helped by the media reporting on celebrities that themselves are useless grapefruit diet, soup diets Pfftt give me a break. Look where it got OPRAH that lady is one big fat oompa loompa herself and *she never got it together*




Well done, the pictures certainly do speak for themselves. I have a lot of respect for anybody that competes in bodybuilding, it takes incredible dedication to see it through to the end of a competition.

The general standard of personal trainers is poor, although there are some fantastic trainers out there, they are probably outnumbered 100 to 1.

The basics have been working for many years, and will continue to do so despite all the new fad diets. Eating foods that nature provides, not things that are processed and come in a box, a can or a packet. If something lasts for more than a week or so before going bad, chances are it's full of preservatives.

If something once ran, swam, flew, grew from the ground or on trees, chances are it's good for you. Foods that were available to the caveman... meat, fruit and vegetables in their natural form are good for you.

Things like potato chips, bread, cereals, pasta, desserts, fruit juices (with added sugar), biscuits and cakes etc... even alcohol. These should be avoided if your goal is to achieve or maintain a healthy weight.

Combine that with resistance and cardio training and it is impossible to fail.


----------



## Pappon (15 April 2009)

gouryella said:


> Well done, the pictures certainly do speak for themselves. I have a lot of respect for anybody that competes in bodybuilding, it takes incredible dedication to see it through to the end of a competition.
> 
> The general standard of personal trainers is poor, although there are some fantastic trainers out there, they are probably outnumbered 100 to 1.
> 
> ...






^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ that's the best advice simple yet effective


----------



## mattlaw (15 April 2009)

Hi, just thought i would add my 2 cents. I changed my diet about 6 months ago e.g.
1. I stopped eating bread.
2. I stopped drinking milk.
3. i have alot more protien.

All of these changes have contributed to me losing 10kg, i have had asthma since i was born and i have not used any medication for 3 months, i had surgery when i was young to 'fix' my nasal problems which didnt work and my new diet has fixed that too.

Who would have thought that what you put into your body can have that much bearing, but it did.

I thought i was doing the right thing following the food pyramid then i found out that some farmers association made it up and then it was accepted as the diet for everyone.

Anyway i just try to eat real food and not processed stuff i also found out that alot of products that i was eatin gwith preservatives was causing my reflux. 

matt


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## sam76 (15 April 2009)

just go out with a fat chick


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## centex (15 April 2009)

Great thread... learning lots 

Can somebody please explain why alcohol consumption is so detrimental to the dieting process. Given that alcohol itself contains no sugar or fats obviously something else is at play????

I can understand why beer is no good. But vodka, scotch, wine????


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## gouryella (15 April 2009)

centex said:


> Great thread... learning lots
> 
> Can somebody please explain why alcohol consumption is so detrimental to the dieting process. Given that alcohol itself contains no sugar or fats obviously something else is at play????
> 
> I can understand why beer is no good. But vodka, scotch, wine????




Protein contains 4 calories per gram
Carbohydrates contain 4 calories per gram
Fat contains 9 calories per gram
*Alcohol contains 7 calories per gram*

Alcohol also affects almost every process in the body. *Alcohol is a poison*, and your body wants to get rid of it as quickly as possible. To do this your body will compromise fighting illness, repairing muscle tissue and fat loss. Other effects include things such as lowered HGH levels, inducing dehydration, fatigue and vitamin and mineral depletion.

Alcohol really has no positive function in the human body. What's worse is that alcohol consumption usually goes hand in hand with over-eating of bad foods.


----------



## Harro7 (16 April 2009)

I'm 90kgs and 172 cms tall (a short ****).

Today I ate:
one slice of bread with ham.
2 bbqd chicken breasts.
2 portions of greek salad.
2 salada biscuits with ham.
1 big bowl of minestrone soup.

I'm wondering if that is an ok diet?

I exercise 3-4 times a week for an hour at a time. Other than that I'm pretty sedentary.

I'd like to get down to 70-75 in about six months if that's possible. I'm about a 6.5 on a scale of 1 to 10 in the motivation stakes (0 being not motivated).

I'm thinking of doing kennas program.


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## MrBurns (16 April 2009)

gouryella said:


> Protein contains 4 calories per gram
> Carbohydrates contain 4 calories per gram
> Fat contains 9 calories per gram
> *Alcohol contains 7 calories per gram*
> ...




Alcohol skews your entire functionality, if you overindulge that is, you tend to crave junk food the day after and it just generally stuffs you up.

If you abstain altogether you feel great, unfortunately in our social setup thats hard, so best to manage the consumption as much as possible.


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## MrBurns (16 April 2009)

I'm not at the kincella level yet but I'm down to one meal a day, no problem really, fruit and carrots and celery during the day and I'll tell you this *you enjoy your evening meal a hell of a lot more by doing this*, I am sort of at the stage where I could skip the evening meal so if I dont see any results soon that what I'll do.


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## kincella (16 April 2009)

Morning Mr Burns...I am pleased you have adapted so quickly...and feeling good about it...
to answer your question from yesterday...it is one quarter of a rockmelon per day...and it usually takes about 2-3 hours before it starts to work...and one needs to go for a leak
cheers


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## MrBurns (16 April 2009)

Morning kincella, I have half a melon at the time, dont notice any need to rush off to the loo though, anyway as long as I'm eating that and not KFC I'll be ok.

KFC mmmmmmmm, no go away bad thoughts...........


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## kincella (16 April 2009)

KFC...never bothered with it myself, but since I have this little fussy dog who happens to like it....I was going down at least once or twice a week to get it for the dog...and I took a liking to the chips with extra salt.....thats all stopped now.....decided I no longer like the chips (since I checked the mirror, and clothing suddenly got tight)....and half the time the chicken is not cooked thru to the bone....although the dog does not seem to care...

went in this week and bought one piece of chicken for the dog and no chips for me....

boy of 17 had been a Big Mac eater, all his life...until he got a job there....turned him off it immediately...he would not say why...
but he is otherwise a fussy eater and was learning cooking...not ordinary stuff...he has eaten at the best restaurants in Melb....so that set the standard higher for his culinary taste...
in fact he no longer eats  any of the fast foods


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## Aussiejeff (16 April 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Morning kincella, I have half a melon at the time, dont notice any need to rush off to the loo though, anyway as long as I'm eating that and not KFC I'll be ok.
> 
> KFC mmmmmmmm, no go away bad thoughts...........




KFC?

Just intone the mantra _"Kentucky Fried *Cancer*"_. Repeat as necessary until your tummy turns.

Big Mac?

Just intone the mantra _"Big *Muck*"_. Repeat as necessary until your tummy turns. 

For those and all other "junk" foods (pizzas, chocolates, lollies, desserts, etc, etc) my best-half & I generally regard them as no better than _"poison"_. So, we know for sure we will suffer adversely in some way if we weaken our resolve. 

Just a few tricks that work for us. 

Chiz,



aj


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## Kez180 (16 April 2009)

Don't feed your dog cooked chicken....

unless it is a toy dog, then I don't care what you do with it...


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## kincella (16 April 2009)

really...why


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## MrBurns (16 April 2009)

KFC really is crap, but they trick it up to satisfy a craving, I hardly ever go near it and when I do I always regret it afterwords.

Pizza is ok, McDog is ok very rarely in an emergency, ever noticed how it never satisfies ?

Chinese food I love..........

Back to the carrots and celery for the time being.

I remember when I seriously dieted many moons ago and won, food just tasted so much better, really so much better, you would have the usual meal but no so much of it and enjoy it more, looking forward to that, well it's already happening since I cut out day time grazing.


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## Prospector (16 April 2009)

Hey Mr B you will notice a difference.  You will start to feel great and actually notice the 'taste' in foods.  Buy good quality vegetables from the market - there is a big difference in taste.

I think lemons are under rated as a diet aid too.  A lemon in the morning, first thing, squeezed into a small glass of warm water helps the liver to break down the fats in your food.  Great also for Vitamin C and just freshens you up.

KFC - hm, great for a nanosecond but 10 minutes later it sits in your stomach like a rock.  But I will always be tempted by Hungry Jacks though!  And I have only ever eaten at Maccas once! Blech!


----------



## MrBurns (16 April 2009)

Prospector said:


> Hey Mr B you will notice a difference.  You will start to feel great and actually notice the 'taste' in foods.  Buy good quality vegetables from the market - there is a big difference in taste.
> 
> I think lemons are under rated as a diet aid too.  A lemon in the morning, first thing, squeezed into a small glass of warm water helps the liver to break down the fats in your food.  Great also for Vitamin C and just freshens you up.
> 
> KFC - hm, great for a nanosecond but 10 minutes later it sits in your stomach like a rock.  But I will always be tempted by Hungry Jacks though!  And I have only ever eaten at Maccas once! Blech!




Hungry Jacks is closer to real food than Macs thats for sure, mind you Macs tastes ok it's just that afterwards you dont feel like you've had a proper meal.

Change the subject I think.

Carrots are nice


----------



## Prospector (16 April 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Carrots are nice




Yes, they are!  You can buy those little dutch carrots that are nice and sweet and steam them for a change.  And tomatoes - buy grape-shape tomatoes and not round ones. :


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## kincella (16 April 2009)

heres some of my fav foods....take some safeway 'home brand' italian dressing or sweet chilie dressing...pour it over some iceberg lettuce...or your fav lettuce.....yum....thats it

my own quick caesar salad...probably takes about 10 mins...and enough for 2 meals

small handful of diced bacon, some chopped onions and one egg and fry(I use an egg ring, soft cooked only) put aside to cool, take a slice of bread and fry on both sides....then chop into small pieces...take a similar amount of fav tasty cheese and dice...
chop iceberg or fav lettuce, together with any new baby tomatoes, and toss all of the above into a bowl  ....then pour over your fav dressing...
lastly ,I chopp the egg and let it drool over the top...

****...I mix an equal amount of condensed milk with the salad dressing.....as my caesar salad dressing.....its the yummiest


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## Ageo (16 April 2009)

Give me home made food any day over take away rubbish.


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## Kez180 (16 April 2009)

kincella said:


> really...why




The bones break into sharp pieces once cooked....

90% of the time this isn't a problems and the dog will just crunch it up... but when a sharp bit gets lodged in a gum/throat not only does it hurt the dog, but the vet will take 2 weeks salary off you just to patch the dog up...


----------



## kincella (16 April 2009)

PS...Mr Burns these recipes are for you when you are ready to plan your new regime....after this current exercise

if you like the sound of them..print it off for later

another snack...cook up a handful of silverbeet or spinach....cook a few minutes only ,until the leaves are wilted....drain...pour onto a serving dish....sprinkle with your fav cheese...not too much cheese

or cook one or two apples...peeled and chopped...set aside to cool....cut up some watermelon...add equal parts of both to a dish....pour a tiny serving of fruit yoghurt over the top.....this one is interesting....both different textures but compliment each other...taste is sensational...

an old fav.....half a cucumber, half an tomatoe..both thinly sliced...put into dish and pour enough vinegar over to cover....use as a side dish

sliced apple with mayo sandwich anyone.....yum (safeway home brand mayo is not bad)  I make my own mayo...the old fashioned condensed milk, mustard,  and vinegar one....

you can make a mouth watering coleslaw salad to beat KFC's or any of the store variety....I have a handy chopper that chops the cabbage up finely....slice the carrot then chop finely, and chopped onions....pour over the safeway or your  fav mayo...
you can add any other fav vegetable...I like diced apple. ...and sometime I add raisens


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## kincella (16 April 2009)

Kezi....
absolutely never ever...should anyone give their dog a chicken bone...regardless of size of the dog.....its too dangerous, rips their gums and stomach apart...
I feed my dog cooked chicken.....no bones allowed...chicken breast is mainly all she eats....and the KFC drumstick...(remove those tiny sharp bones)
she is 2 years old....she never liked any of the dog food I bought for her as a puppy..so it was cooked rump teak, or T bone steak, Roast chicken...and cooked vegies....its only been the last 3 months she will eat only one prepared dog food...my dog..roast beef......together with safeway chicken....
its become quite an expensive exercise...for such a tiny dog....and I never thought I would spend so much time cooking....for the dog only...

she is a maltese terrior......

I met some people out walking, they had a maltese...I asked what was the dogs name....Osama bin laden....they said he was a terrorist.......funny ha ha  cause he is a terrior....


----------



## darnsmall (16 April 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Might be good to have hints and tips about how to lose weight.
> 
> For me , I'm about 10 kg overweight not huge but enough to make me uncomfortable and I cannot get rid of it, it's purely psychological.
> 
> ...




Unless you have some major medical issues, then weight loss is pretty simple. Everyone's body is different so exercise diet differs for all, but its a simple formula of inputs vs outputs.

I was about the same 10 to 15kgs over my peak, I drop about 1kg/mnth (now just under the 90kgs heading for 80kgs) by cutting out saturated fats keeping it below 10g's a day, keep sugars to a minimum, avoid too much salt, drink a lot of water, and exercise 5 times a weak. I've got a pretty damn slow/stubborn metabolism so it's super easy for me to put on the keg's and harder to take it off. But really it all comes down to discipline and really wanting it. most people want a quick easy solution and aren't really that serious about it. So the first few steps are the hardest if your minds not into it


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## MrBurns (16 April 2009)

Just got back from Safeway, I was tempted by a few things but just walked away, wasnt hard at all and I was hungry, starting to make hunger my friend, fingers crossed !


----------



## kincella (16 April 2009)

Burnsie,,I did the same yesterday....but I drank water before I went shopping...and think may have dropped 2 kg so far...but best to wait till the end of 7 days...I can feel I have lost some...its too easy....
ps its more shopping for the dog who is not on a diet....
what do you think of my recipes ?
cheers


----------



## MrBurns (16 April 2009)

kincella said:


> what do you think of my recipes ?
> cheers




They sound great there's plenty of things I can do, but eating half of whats on the plate would be a good start.
NEVER shop when you're hungry you arrive home with a whole bunch of stuff you dont need.


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## Prospector (16 April 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Just got back from Safeway, I was tempted by a few things but just walked away, wasnt hard at all and I was hungry, starting to make hunger my friend, fingers crossed !




Yes, you are on your way Mr B!  As long as you eat plenty of fresh healthy vegetables and fruit, good protein and the occasional treat you will be in a happier place in a few weeks.


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## kincella (16 April 2009)

get some 'post it notes' and write those sayings down to remind yourself....stick them on the fridge etc
thats the problem with shopping when hungry...so the rule is do not go shopping when hungry...and with me the glass of water does the trick....

otherwise...I have learnt to waste food (recall parents saying waste not want not, but thats another trap)....I feed it to the birds....except I do not throw out chocolate, onions , tomatoes or raisens....just in case there is a dog that can access it...that would be awful...those items can kill a dog

you sound like you are happier....
remember me saying I feel on top of the world when I do this project


----------



## centex (16 April 2009)

gouryella said:


> Protein contains 4 calories per gram
> Carbohydrates contain 4 calories per gram
> Fat contains 9 calories per gram
> *Alcohol contains 7 calories per gram*
> ...




Thanks gouryella - very informative


----------



## bowman (16 April 2009)

Great thread guys.

I quit drinking about six weeks ago and at the same time embarked on a more nutritious diet and an excercise program and I'm feeling unbelievably more alive for it.

My diet is more or less based on the Paleo/Caveman diet, which is essentially fruit and vegetables, lean fish, chicken and meat. I've cut out grains and cereals and dairy foods (with the exception of a bit of yoghurt with my brekky, and a splash of lite milk in my twice daily coffee).

The weight is coming off in a steady fashion and I can feel and see some results from my daily dumbbell workouts. I've started bike riding as well for some cardio.

I've reduced the amount of cooked food I eat, so salads are featured heavily, especially for lunch.

My cooked meals are typically lightly steamed vegies with lean meats, which are mostly pan fried or grilled.

Here's a lunch idea for you - I just polished off mine 

Mixed salad : Today it was lettuce, baby spinach leaves, carrots, zuchinni, and cucumber with a lemon dressing and a dollop of baba ganoush on the side.
2 Scrambled eggs.
1 Small tin of salmon.

Good health to you all - the weight will come off if you take care of your nutrition.

PS. GFF looks like it's trying to break higher


----------



## gouryella (16 April 2009)

Sounds like you're on the right track, keep it up!

I don't see why people feel the need to make it more complicated than it actually is.


----------



## gav (16 April 2009)

gouryella said:


> Well done, the pictures certainly do speak for themselves. I have a lot of respect for anybody that competes in bodybuilding, it takes incredible dedication to see it through to the end of a competition.
> 
> The general standard of personal trainers is poor, although there are some fantastic trainers out there, they are probably outnumbered 100 to 1.
> 
> ...




I haven't been able to post here as much as I would have liked the past few days, so I'm glad that info like this is being posted.  Good work gouryella!

On the subject of Personal Trainers, I lasted just 1 year.  Like you, I was not willing to "do what it takes" to be financially successful in that role.  You say that only 1 in 100 Personal Trainers are good - I'd agree with that.  But I'd also go one step further and say out of those good trainers, only 1 in 100 will actually make a decent living out of it.  The best way to describe it to folk on here in a way they'd understand is that personal trainers and gym membership consultants are like the financial planners of the fitness industry 



gouryella said:


> Protein contains 4 calories per gram
> Carbohydrates contain 4 calories per gram
> Fat contains 9 calories per gram
> *Alcohol contains 7 calories per gram*
> ...




Great post again.  Most people only think there are 3 macronutrients, they totally forget about alcohol.  I've also read reports that suggest your body can absorb up to 4 times as much fat when you have alcohol in your system!  Even if there is only a small chance of it being true, its definitely something to consider the next time you want a greasy kebab after a big night out!


----------



## gav (16 April 2009)

Mr Burns,

Due to the changes in diet I am sure you will be craving sweet things, or some other type of carbs.  I have a great remedy for those cravings!

You can buy diet jelly these days.  1 entire serve is about 2 calories!  I usually mix 200g frozen Sara Lee wild berries into the jelly too, which means I end up getting about 50g of berries, which brings the serve up to about 8 calories at the most.  It's a great treat that won't affect your diet, and berries are full of anti oxidants.  (fresh would be best, but frozen berries works well too)

To give you an idea as to how little 8 calories is, you'd burn more calories than that in 10 minutes of sitting on your ass watching TV!


----------



## gouryella (16 April 2009)

gav said:


> I haven't been able to post here as much as I would have liked the past few days, so I'm glad that info like this is being posted.  Good work gouryella!
> 
> On the subject of Personal Trainers, I lasted just 1 year.  Like you, I was not willing to "do what it takes" to be financially successful in that role.  You say that only 1 in 100 Personal Trainers are good - I'd agree with that.  But I'd also go one step further and say out of those good trainers, only 1 in 100 will actually make a decent living out of it.  The best way to describe it to folk on here in a way they'd understand is that personal trainers and gym membership consultants are like the financial planners of the fitness industry
> 
> ...




Thanks aussie... I mean Gav :

Haven't spoken to you for a while (this is Airwave from irondungeon forums), I haven't been on that forum for a few months.


----------



## gav (16 April 2009)

gouryella said:


> Thanks aussie... I mean Gav :
> 
> Haven't spoken to you for a while (this is Airwave from irondungeon forums), I haven't been on that forum for a few months.




LOL! It's a small world.  Maybe I should change my display pic/username, this is the second time in as many days I've been recognised...


----------



## MrBurns (16 April 2009)

gav said:


> Mr Burns,
> 
> Due to the changes in diet I am sure you will be craving sweet things, or some other type of carbs.  I have a great remedy for those cravings!
> 
> ...




I chew suger free gum, that seems to work, plus drink water now, that works too, if you remember to drink before you open the fridge.

A lockable fridge would sell rather well, anyone want ot go into business ?


----------



## kincella (16 April 2009)

I like the lockable fridge bit...hahahaha...
years ago there was a load of ladies all complaining about being over weight...I suggested to them I could start up a private diet clinic....they would be locked in for 2 weeks....only eat the food provided...security guards to protect the kitchen etc....bit like a jail...but with lots of other things to take their attention away from the food...saunas, training etc...but the main thing would be...they could not access any food....only when served to them...
they did not really like the idea
run it similar to a drug rehab place....but call it a diet rehab


----------



## DB008 (17 April 2009)

Hey hey,
Settle down...l'm planning on having a "greasy" chicken kebab with BBQ sauce tomorrow night, after l've been on the piss....
My one night out, then it's back to the gym and healthy eating.


----------



## darnsmall (17 April 2009)

kincella said:


> I like the lockable fridge bit...hahahaha...
> years ago there was a load of ladies all complaining about being over weight...I suggested to them I could start up a private diet clinic....they would be locked in for 2 weeks....only eat the food provided...security guards to protect the kitchen etc....bit like a jail...but with lots of other things to take their attention away from the food...saunas, training etc...but the main thing would be...they could not access any food....only when served to them...
> they did not really like the idea
> run it similar to a drug rehab place....but call it a diet rehab




sounds like a great idea, except you need to add that they can be admitted against their will. And have a hotline you can call up to dob someone in. Spot a fat chick, call the hotline and a truck with a small crane will drive over and load them up into the back and off to rehab. You could get government subsidies and make an absolute killing.


----------



## Kez180 (17 April 2009)

darnsmall said:


> sounds like a great idea, except you need to add that they can be admitted against their will. And have a hotline you can call up to dob someone in. Spot a fat chick, call the hotline and a truck with a small crane will drive over and load them up into the back and off to rehab. You could get government subsidies and make an absolute killing.




And if they run fast enough to get away, they obviously don't need to go... so there is the motivation for training outside....


----------



## kincella (17 April 2009)

here I am, is it the 4th or 5th day of diet, I dont recall, but one part of pants slipping down now....have to watch they dont fall off....need a belt to keep them up....last week I had trouble doing the button/clip up....
have not weighed self today...I can just feel it sliding off....
oh happy days...:sheep:
btw..the dog likes tuna...but it gives her the runs...might look at making some fish cakes for her...

ps Burnsie...do you look at the 'fresh magazine' free from safeway...it has some neat recipes...


----------



## kincella (17 April 2009)

out shopping for the dog again today....decided I can have one healthy meal, so bought some cooked prawns, silver beet, baby spinach...made a cheese and onion sauce...layered the sauce over the cooked greens, with the prawns on top.....it was Ok but I have lost my taste buds now....funny I had forgotten that can happen...so that no matter what you eat it is all tasteless......
not to worry....taste buds will return...so I may go for another week now...
check it again on sunday ..the 7th day
oh and bought too many prawns...asked for  a small handful ...no way I can eat all of them today...so dogs will get some and the rest for the birds...

never  keep the prawns for the next day...whenever I did they tasted ok...but sickness follows....
all to do with them being thawed when you buy them...

btw how are you going Burnsie ?


----------



## Prospector (17 April 2009)

Well, just found a quick way to lose a kilo.  Get a migraine and not even be able to keep down a cup of tea.

Getting over it now, but thought of food is the last thing on my mind.


----------



## kincella (17 April 2009)

rubbing deep heat into the back of the head  and neck works for some...do not rub the deep heat in too long so it burns the skin....know people who had migraines for days...now can nip it in the bud within a few hours
cheers


----------



## MrBurns (17 April 2009)

Going ok, havent lost much yet at all but I am getting into the mindset of not filling my face which is more important because if I can do that weight loss will follow, you're doing well kincella, well done

Meat loaf in the fridge and I havent touched it all day


----------



## Prospector (17 April 2009)

kincella said:


> rubbing deep heat into the back of the head  and neck works for some...do not rub the deep heat in too long so it burns the skin....know people who had migraines for days...now can nip it in the bud within a few hours
> cheers




Similar to this, I have been pressing into my forehead above my right eye, which is where it hurts. Am ready to amputate eye though!  But getting better.


----------



## gav (17 April 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Going ok, havent lost much yet at all but I am getting into the mindset of not filling my face which is more important because if I can do that weight loss will follow, you're doing well kincella, well done
> 
> Meat loaf in the fridge and I havent touched it all day




I remember how hard dieting for my first comp was.  Mum made meatloaf (my favourite) the night after the comp.  She made 2 large meatloaf's for the family, knowing I'd want some the next day for lunch too.  I sat there and ate an entire meat loaf in one sitting, then got up during the night and hurled my guts up.  Haven't had meatloaf since...


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## gav (17 April 2009)

Prospector said:


> Similar to this, I have been pressing into my forehead above my right eye, which is where it hurts. Am ready to amputate eye though!  But getting better.




And I'm sure looking at a computer screen helps! j/k

Hope you feel better soon Scarlette. Err, I mean Prospector


----------



## kincella (18 April 2009)

ok, so I have lost 3 kg so far...have to check which day I started...Sun or Mon...pleased with that so far
decided in the future bread eliminated...except for an occassional sandwich....

recall another fav meal...(tinned) tuna in brine with avocardo mashed with a stack of lemon juice...
lemon juice brings out that extra flavour in foods...its magic

I intend to eliminate the regular KFC from the dogs diet...
cheers


----------



## Sean K (18 April 2009)

kincella said:


> ok, so I have lost 3 kg so far...



 Whoohoo!

Nice work!

Maybe create a graph to show the drop and target?

Or post some weight and measurement stats and pics...


----------



## kincella (18 April 2009)

kennas...
good ideas....the goal is 10kg...which would take me into thin ground...might be a bit much... terrific feeling losing the weight and being in control of mind and body again...(obviously lost control to have gained so much weight in the first place)
usual for me to lose between 3-5 kg for a week or 10 days of just water for a meal, and drink 3 coffee and a couple of wines in the evening.....if I take out the wine it is closer to 5kg
I lose my taste buds after a couple of days (actually they are still there, have not gone anywhere , just do not work as well as usual)...so its even easier not to eat anything...
I do not do charts for this exercise...its swift and fast...I expect to lose up to 5kg first week...and the weight will keep falling for another few days even after I start eating small meals again...
of course I dont binge...but if one had some huge feeds within a few days, they could undo all the losses..
and after the weight loss, I expect to eat better, not eat the wrong foods that brought on the weight gain
cheers


----------



## Sean K (18 April 2009)

kincella said:


> kennas...
> good ideas....the goal is 10kg...which would take me into thin ground...might be a bit much... terrific feeling losing the weight and being in control of mind and body again...(obviously lost control to have gained so much weight in the first place)



How do the clothes feel?

I think the BEST sign of weight loss is when pants become looooose!


----------



## kincella (18 April 2009)

I posted this yesterday...thats why I dont worry too much about the weigh ins...the pants/trousers tell me everything



kincella said:


> here I am, is it the 4th or 5th day of diet, I dont recall, but one pair of pants slipping down now....have to watch they dont fall off....need a belt to keep them up....last week I had trouble doing the button/clip up....
> have not weighed self today...I can just feel it sliding off....
> oh happy days...:sheep:


----------



## Prospector (18 April 2009)

So sad, I have to go out and buy a whole lot of new clothes now coz my jeans just fall off me now!  And I only lost 6 kilos overall (down to mid range of ideal weight).  Size 10 here we come!:


----------



## tech/a (18 April 2009)

Its really simple this weight thing.
Eat less
Exercise more.

Like everything else people turn it into one of the most complex things one could possibly do!


----------



## MrBurns (18 April 2009)

I'm having a bit of trouble, eating more at dinner now I'm not eating during the day, so will have to do the kincella extreme method.

Not today though, a mate of mine I havent seen in about 8 years landed on the doorstep, I've known him and his wife for 35 years, she left him for someone else 9 months ago after 31 years married, he's shattered , will take him to the local for dinner and we will get hammered, so will start again tomorrow or Monday.


----------



## kincella (18 April 2009)

no mr burns, just eat non fat, ....have a salad ...no pitza, pasta etc....you have to learn to eat correctly in any situation....show your mate how its done...and slow down on the grog.... have an entree instead of a main course...
your mate might be in a similar overweight situation...so you can do it together..
I find eating out is so easy when keeping an eye on your weight....yummy for eg;  oysters natural, lobster, steak with salad...entree size only...only ever have the one course..and no dessert...unless I am correct weight
cheers


----------



## Prospector (18 April 2009)

Hey Mr Burns, just have a drink of water and drink it continually, along with the beer.  It will cut down your consumption.  Or have a mixer - vodka or gin instead of the beer.


----------



## MrBurns (18 April 2009)

Prospector said:


> Hey Mr Burns, just have a drink of water and drink it continually, along with the beer.  It will cut down your consumption.  Or have a mixer - vodka or gin instead of the beer.




Hope this doesn't put you into shock Prospector but there will be beers followed by red wine then scotch.

I will be walking to and from the pub though so there's about 30 minutes walking there and on the way back it wont be in a straight line so add another 10 minutes.

Water is the drinkers enemy unless it's with 10 year old scotch


----------



## MrBurns (18 April 2009)

kincella said:


> no mr burns, just eat non fat, ....have a salad ...no pitza, pasta etc....you have to learn to eat correctly in any situation....show your mate how its done...and slow down on the grog.... have an entree instead of a main course...
> your mate might be in a similar overweight situation...so you can do it together..
> I find eating out is so easy when keeping an eye on your weight....yummy for eg;  oysters natural, lobster, steak with salad...entree size only...only ever have the one course..and no dessert...unless I am correct weight
> cheers




I could live on oysters and lobster, went to JJ's Bar and Grill at Crown with one of my sons a while ago crayfish were out of season cost $200 each but they were delicious.

I'm afraid tonight will be a lost cause, I havent seen him in zonks and he hits me with the news of his separation.............all too much.


----------



## gouryella (18 April 2009)

To lose *weight*, simple... either stop eating or chop off a limb.

To lose *fat*, still very simple, but too many people make it seem harder than it is!

Starving yourself or going for extended periods without eating is a sure fire way to lose muscle mass, which is a bad thing.

The body is built for survival and if it senses famine or extended periods without food, it will adjust accordingly. These adjustments include the wasting of muscle tissue to slow down your metabolism and a tendency to store body fat for 'survival'. Others have already said it, but the more muscle mass you have, the higher your basal metabolic rate will be. Thus burning more calories when you're inactive. To keep your metabolism ticking along, you should be eating smaller meals more regularly throughout the day, ideally every 3-4 hours.

So how do we hold onto our muscle mass? Each of those meals should contain a source of protein. Protein intake is important for a number of reasons. Firstly because it helps you feel fuller, reducing the likelihood of indulging on snacks. Secondly, because as we all should know, proteins are the building blocks of muscle and your body also requires protein for numerous other bodily functions, if you're not feeding yourself protein your body will have to take it from somewhere else... your muscles.

The next best way to retain (or even increase) muscle mass, and I know this may scare a lot of the lazy folk around here, is RESISTANCE TRAINING.

As you can see, it is a two-pronged effect. Eating less or going without food for too long will cause your body to waste muscle tissue, slowing down your metabolism. A slower metabolism means less calories are burned, as soon as you inevitibly return to your old eating habits, up go the scales!

Don't be fooled by people that claim to lose 2-3 kilos a week consistently, it is not all fat! A lot of initial weight loss is fluid. The people on the Biggest Loser are losing muscle along with fat, that's why most of them look so horrible by the time they finish and usually just put the weight back on again.

Just think, it didn't take them 3 months to gain all that weight, it happened over a number of years, so what makes them think they can lose it so quickly. There is a difference between _weight_ loss and _fat_ loss.


----------



## Pappon (18 April 2009)

gouryella said:


> _weight_ loss and _fat_ loss.





That's a VERY important point!


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (18 April 2009)

I must admit to having a liking for lassies with a little bit of healthy fat upon them.

The muscular thin ladies leave me cold, the overly bony thin ones likewise.

A healthy lass in a healthy body is pure heaven.

Too much weight loss makes me think a person might have some dreadful disease.

gg


----------



## MrBurns (18 April 2009)

gouryella said:


> The next best way to retain (or even increase) muscle mass, and I know this may scare a lot of the lazy folk around here, is RESISTANCE TRAINING.
> .





ok thanks I just downloaded this -

http://72.14.235.132/search?q=cache...nce+training+at+home&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au


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## kincella (18 April 2009)

ok Burnsie...you are going to blow it with all that grog anyway....careful walking .....alaskan king crab claws....mud crabs, moreton bay bugs....or a barrumundi...may as well celebrate with your mate.....
looks like you are now on a seafood diet....diet until you see food...
that must be how/why the others dont lose the weight....

cheers

ps Prospector how long did it take to lose the 6 kg ???


----------



## MrBurns (18 April 2009)

kincella said:


> ok Burnsie...you are going to blow it with all that grog anyway....careful walking .....alaskan king crab claws....mud crabs, moreton bay bugs....or a barrumundi...may as well celebrate with your mate.....
> looks like you are now on a seafood diet....diet until you see food...
> that must be how/why the others dont lose the weight....
> 
> ...




Dont give up on me yet, once I get going they'll have to force feed me goose livers I'll be that lean


----------



## Julia (18 April 2009)

gouryella said:


> The body is built for survival and if it senses famine or extended periods without food, it will adjust accordingly. These adjustments include the wasting of muscle tissue to slow down your metabolism and a tendency to store body fat for 'survival'. Others have already said it, but the more muscle mass you have, the higher your basal metabolic rate will be. Thus burning more calories when you're inactive. To keep your metabolism ticking along, you should be eating smaller meals more regularly throughout the day, ideally every 3-4 hours.
> 
> So how do we hold onto our muscle mass? Each of those meals should contain a source of protein. Protein intake is important for a number of reasons. Firstly because it helps you feel fuller, reducing the likelihood of indulging on snacks. Secondly, because as we all should know, proteins are the building blocks of muscle and your body also requires protein for numerous other bodily functions, if you're not feeding yourself protein your body will have to take it from somewhere else... your muscles.
> 
> ...



Great post, Gouryella.


----------



## bowman (19 April 2009)

Great advice again gouryella.

My weekday regime at the moment is :

 Eating 4-6 small, nutritious meals each day combined with exercise. I don't count calories or use bathroom scales, just focus on nutrition and workouts.

1. 1/2 hour early morning walk.

2. Breakfast

3. Pre- market analysis and trading plan

4. Pre market dumbbell workout

5. Morning trading with a mid morning fruit snack

6. Midday bike ride or (stationary bike) for 30 mins.

7. Light lunch

8. Back to the trading

9. After market dumbbell workout followed by a banana and whey protein   smoothie.

10. Dinner

I'm getting pretty keen on the workouts and was wondering if you or gav would recommend any other muscle building supplements.

Meanwhile here's my cereal free brekky recipe which has a good balance of proteins and carbs.

1/2 grated apple
3 tsp ground flaxseed (use a spice or coffee grinder)
2 tsp sesame seed
2 tsp sunflower seed
handful of mixed chopped nuts (i like almonds and walnuts)
2 tbls yoghurt
drizzle of honey

Time for that walk.


----------



## gav (19 April 2009)

gouryella said:


> To lose *weight*, simple... either stop eating or chop off a limb.
> 
> To lose *fat*, still very simple, but too many people make it seem harder than it is!
> 
> ...




Fantastic post mate.  ASF'ers read this 3 times


----------



## Sean K (19 April 2009)

gav said:


> Fantastic post mate.  ASF'ers read this 3 times



Good if you want to do resistance training and be a slave to your body for the rest of your life. 

No requirement anymore except to maintain good posture or play sport.

For the vast majority of people going to the gym is just an exercise in self esteem.


----------



## Buster (19 April 2009)

Hey Kenna's



kennas said:


> Good if you want to do resistance training and be a slave to your body for the rest of your life.
> 
> For the vast majority of people going to the gym is just an exercise in self esteem.




Heeyyyyyyyyy.. I go to the gym pretty much every day!!  What are you saying 'that' says about me? 

I dunno, but there is something about getting to the gym and giving the flesh and bone a really good shake up for an hour.  Followed by a hot shower I find it sets myself up in the right frame of mind, raring to go for the rest of the day. All nice and early in the piece to boot, generally as most others are stumbling about around looking for the coffee pot..

Always feel great after a good workout..

Cheers,

Buster


----------



## Sean K (19 April 2009)

Buster said:


> Hey Kenna's
> 
> Heeyyyyyyyyy.. I go to the gym pretty much every day!!  What are you saying 'that' says about me?



Nothing wrong with doing anything to develop your self esteem. Nothing. Or, it might just be fitness for you!

But, the topic is about losing weight.

If you start resistance training you are trapped into doing it. Doing it until you stop. And then the muscle disappears and your metabolism slows down and you turn porky. 

For long term weight loss (unless you plan on doing resistance training consistently for your entire life) skip the weights and do something else that you might maintain as a lifestyle. 

Cycling. Hiking. Tai Chi. Yoga. Pilates. Swimming, maybe. 

Base case is, eat less and more healthily with the required nutrients, and choose a long term sustainable exercise regime. For a very few, weights will be it. But for the vast majority, no.


----------



## Prospector (19 April 2009)

I hate the gym.  Most people hate the gym. Partner loves the gym, because exercise is a major source of stress relief for him.

It isnt realistic to tell people to go to the gym and exercise, it simply isnt sustainable for most people.  I agree with Kennas, unless you find an exercise that is compatible with your normal lifestyle, give it a year or so and it will all be forgotten.

I have a friend who decided to give the personal training a go. She visited the gym maybe six times a week; personal trainer for 2 of them, on her own for the rest.  She looked fabulous after 6 months.  12 months later she still looked good but knew she couldnt keep up the regime - she was bored with it and just couldnt live a 'normal' life as she was tied to this routine.  She decided to take a 3 month break - that was six months ago and she hasnt returned.  Doesnt look nearly as great now!  But she does have her life back.

Kincella, I lost 2 kilos in the first week, then the rest over the next month.  That was in November and I am still at that weight now. No exercise class at all, whereas I had been doing three aerobic sessions a week for years beforehand.   I have had the fat/water ratio measured before and after; sorry folks but I lost fat!  I think lemon juice in water helps to metabolise the fat.


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## gav (19 April 2009)

kennas said:


> Good if you want to do resistance training and be a slave to your body for the rest of your life.
> 
> No requirement anymore except to maintain good posture or play sport.
> 
> For the vast majority of people going to the gym is just an exercise in self esteem.




This would be funny, except you have a Ba App Sci, PE.  It's not your fault, you cant help what you have been taught...


----------



## gav (19 April 2009)

Prospector said:


> I hate the gym.  Most people hate the gym. Partner loves the gym, because exercise is a major source of stress relief for him.
> 
> It isnt realistic to tell people to go to the gym and exercise, it simply isnt sustainable for most people.  I agree with Kennas, unless you find an exercise that is compatible with your normal lifestyle, give it a year or so and it will all be forgotten.
> 
> ...




Nobody here said you NEED to do weights to lose weight.  Diet is by far the most important factor when it comes to weight loss, nobody is arguing that.  A few of us have simply stated the benefits of including weights in your regime.  The more lean muscle you have, the more calories you will burn (as well as many other benefits previously mentioned).

Most people who hate gym, hate it because they are lazy, embarrassed, or cant handle a bit of physical exertion.  As for your friend not being able to maintain her physique and live a "normal life"... What is the definition of a "normal life"?  Unless your idea of a normal life is eating like a pig and getting blind drunk every night, YOU CAN live your "normal life" and still look great.  You just have to put in the effort - it's just that most people aren't willing to put in the effort.

Do the successful traders on here live normal lives?  They would have made sacrifices along the way by cutting back on luxuries to save for trading, spent many, many hours studying, etc. but that does not mean they have to give up their lives...

It's so easy to come up with excuses not to exercise or eat right - just as its easy to come up with excuses why you aren't financially successful.

I find it quite bizarre that people will spend so much time and money investing and learning how to invest for their financial future.  Yet spend little time investing time or money in their most important asset of all - their body.


----------



## Sean K (19 April 2009)

gav said:


> This would be funny, except you have a Ba App Sci, PE.  It's not your fault, you cant help what you have been taught...



And worked in the fitness industry for 6 years, and in the Army Medical Corps for 15.

You can't help it either.


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## kincella (19 April 2009)

prospector...that was a great result for a short term exercise.....
regarding exercise...for the older ones....the younger ones are entirely different, with different needs....and looks

I rode horses for the first 30 odd years....only ever ate dinner...meat and 3 vegies...active lifestyle with the horses...needed no other exercises...and it was my hobby...
then moved to Melb, took up tennis again.(had our own tennis court as a child, played tennis..but horses were my passion)
took lessons, played 4 times a week at least sometimes more...great stuff, easy to do,  I loved it  ...competitive streak in me....then the regular group broke down...people moved away, moved on etc...so I stopped playing...

decided walking was the last resort...


----------



## MrBurns (19 April 2009)

kennas said:


> No requirement anymore except to maintain good posture or play sport.




Speaking of posture I've had a bit of a slouch most of my life but lately it seems to be getting worse, I go to physio once a week and lie flat on the floor to straighten myself out, my head doesn't touch the floor when I lie down I have to wait about 5 or 10 minutes for it to go back.

Think it's muscular, damn nuisance, the muscle on top of my left shoulder is getting bigger because of this, don't ask my why, physio did tell but I've forgotten.

I only post this in case anyone has a miracle cure that I dont know about.


----------



## gav (19 April 2009)

kennas said:


> And worked in the fitness industry for 6 years, and in the Army Medical Corps for 15.
> 
> You can't help it either.




I was in the Army too, and have worked in the fitness and supplement industries.  The majority of the above have a very poor understanding of health and fitness.


----------



## gouryella (19 April 2009)

gav said:


> Nobody here said you NEED to do weights to lose weight.  Diet is by far the most important factor when it comes to weight loss, nobody is arguing that.  A few of us have simply stated the benefits of including weights in your regime.  The more lean muscle you have, the more calories you will burn (as well as many other benefits previously mentioned).
> 
> Most people who hate gym, hate it because they are lazy, embarrassed, or cant handle a bit of physical exertion.  As for your friend not being able to maintain her physique and live a "normal life"... What is the definition of a "normal life"?  Unless your idea of a normal life is eating like a pig and getting blind drunk every night, YOU CAN live your "normal life" and still look great.  You just have to put in the effort - it's just that most people aren't willing to put in the effort.
> 
> ...




Once again, common sense from Gav.

People with an aversion to exercise make it seem like a life sentence of torture. It takes as little as an hour a day, three times a week. Surely that's achievable for most people. Perhaps spend a little less time on this forum making excuses 

For me, exercise is a positive thing and that positivity flows on to other areas in my life.


----------



## Sean K (19 April 2009)

gav said:


> I find it quite bizarre that people will spend so much time and money investing and learning how to invest for their financial future.  Yet spend little time investing time or money in their most important asset of all - their body.



Yes, I find it bizaar too. Being healthy is incredibly important to enjoyment of life. But body building is even more bizaar. Does it really serve any long term purpose? Maybe those hours training could be spent in other pursuits to better enhance your life and those around you? Maybe not. The fitness/bodybuilding world is a very important microcosm for certain people. Been there. Love the industry, love the lifestyle. But, the toipic is 'weight loss', not body shaping, or muscle gain. Maybe we all should have defined the real goals better!


----------



## Sean K (19 April 2009)

gav said:


> I was in the Army too, and have worked in the fitness and supplement industries.  The majority of the above have a very poor understanding of health and fitness.



You're in the same boat then. OK.


----------



## Pappon (19 April 2009)

bowman said:


> 1/2 grated apple
> 3 tsp ground flaxseed (use a spice or coffee grinder)
> 2 tsp sesame seed
> 2 tsp sunflower seed
> ...




Just be careful with the amount of fats you mix with a carbohydrate meal keep the good fats low (preferrably 5g of good fats), every time you eat a carbohydrate your pancreas secretes insulin. 
Insulin is a storage hormone and it shuttles everything with it into the the cells, muscle, liver or fat, basically too much fat with carbs in one meal can result in the following:
*Increased fatty acid synthesis – insulin forces fat cells to take in blood lipids which are converted to triglycerides* *FAT  ACCUMULATION*


----------



## gav (19 April 2009)

kennas said:


> Yes, I find it bizaar too. Being healthy is incredibly important to enjoyment of life. But body building is even more bizaar. Does it really serve any long term purpose? Maybe those hours training could be spent in other pursuits to better enhance your life and those around you? Maybe not. The fitness/bodybuilding world is a very important microcosm for certain people. Been there. Love the industry, love the lifestyle. But, the toipic is 'weight loss', not body shaping, or muscle gain. Maybe we all should have defined the real goals better!




Bodybuilding wasn't mentioned in that post you quoted, nor has it been mentioned for a couple of pages so I dont understand why you are mentioning it? 

Weight training can play a vital role in ones weight loss, and helps keep the weight off because the more lean muscle mass you have, the more calories you burn - as has been mentioned many times here.  Having some lean muscle mass does not mean you have to be big and muscley.  I don't see how weight training is not relevant when it can assist with ppl's weight loss goals?


----------



## Prospector (19 April 2009)

Whoa, so many assumptions there Gav.   My point is that you dont need to get to the gym to be fit and healthy; that walking and simple exercise, and looking after your diet will give you normal health.

I was at the football last night and looked around me.  People my age were filling their faces with chips, hamburgers, hot dogs, coke, lollies and the like.  What were partner and I eating?  Multigrain rolls with chicken and salad, and drinking water.  We were the only skinny ones there!  

You are taking one extreme position - I said she cut out the gym and started resuming a normal lfe - to which you said normal was  







gav said:


> Unless your idea of a normal life is eating like a pig and getting blind drunk every night




Like all things in life, moderation is the best way.  And as Kennas said, make exercise a part of your 'normal' life and not a means to an end, and you will do just fine.  Going to the gym is not part of my normal life; walking is.  And housework.


----------



## Sean K (19 April 2009)

gav said:


> Bodybuilding wasn't mentioned in that post you quoted, nor has it been mentioned for a couple of pages so I dont understand why you are mentioning it?
> 
> Weight training can play a vital role in ones weight loss, and helps keep the weight off because the more lean muscle mass you have, the more calories you burn - as has been mentioned many times here.  Having some lean muscle mass does not mean you have to be big and muscley.  I don't see how weight training is not relevant when it can assist with ppl's weight loss goals?



Yes, I'm not sure why body building has come up either. Perhaps a photo here and there has diverted the attention....

Weight training and weight loss in the one sentance? Really? Yes, - plus 20 reps... maybe

Maybe the topic should be changed to 'body shaping', then we might be on the same page.


----------



## Pappon (19 April 2009)

kennas said:


> But, the toipic is 'weight loss'




The topic should be fat loss, weight loss is a silly topic, example:

2 people both weigh 100kg both have 30% bodyfat both train for 3 months on different exercise programs and eating plans

*person 1* trains with resistance training and does cardio along with a moderate-high protein, moderate carb, low good fat diet.
*person 1 ends up 80kgs at 8% bodyfat*

*person 2* does just cardio and eats a moderate-high carb very low fat low protein diet.
*person 2 ends up at 80kgs 16-18% bodyfat*

Person 1 vs person 2 pic attached you decide who person 1 is shouldn't be too hard


----------



## gav (19 April 2009)

Prospector said:


> Whoa, so many assumptions there Gav.   My point is that you dont need to get to the gym to be fit and healthy; that walking and simple exercise, and looking after your diet will give you normal health.
> 
> I was at the football last night and looked around me.  People my age were filling their faces with chips, hamburgers, hot dogs, coke, lollies and the like.  What were partner and I eating?  Multigrain rolls with chicken and salad, and drinking water.  We were the only skinny ones there!
> 
> *You are taking one extreme position - I said she cut out the gym and started resuming a normal lfe - to which you said normal was*




No Prospector, that is not what I said.  You completely misunderstood what I said, and only quoted half the sentence.  Here is what I posted:
"Unless your idea of a normal life is eating like a pig and getting blind drunk every night, YOU CAN live your "normal life" and still look great"

What this means is that you CAN have a "normal life" and do normal things and look great - unless your idea of "normal" is eating crap all the time and getting drunk every night - which is "normal" for some ppl in society... (like many of those around you at the football) 

I do believe that people benefit from weights, but I didn't say you have to go to the gym to be healthy. What you eat is the most important part, which I have said right from the start.  

I also think it is unfair that people like you and I are left to foot the bill through Medicare and high private health insurance costs because we live in a society of overweight and obese ppl, of which the majority (not all) do nothing about it.


----------



## Prospector (19 April 2009)

gav said:


> No Prospector, that is not what I said.
> 
> Where have I said that you HAVE to go to the gym to be healthy?  What you eat is the most important part, which I have said right from the start.




Ok, gotcha!  Sorry.  :

But you did say this, 







gav said:


> Most people who hate gym, hate it because they are lazy, embarrassed, or cant handle a bit of physical exertion.




Not lazy, certainly not embarassed, and as for the physical exertion, well, I have a resting heart rate of 60 so getting that rate up requires me to exercise like a train. Much prefer to walk.


----------



## Sean K (19 April 2009)

Prospector said:


> I have a resting heart rate of 60 so getting that rate up requires me to exercise like a train. Much prefer to walk.





Mine was 38 at one point. Now its over 70. 

I really enjoy walking now too. Probably because of old sport injuries that raise their ugly head when the body is put under stress. Makes me wonder whether sport is really 'healthy' or not. Certainly good socially, but physically, could actually be detrimental.


----------



## Julia (19 April 2009)

I'm another who hates the gym.  Hate having to drive there too.

But - again sorry, a bit off the weight loss topic - resistance training is good as we age, to help keep bones strong.

Past generations didn't have gyms to go to.  They didn't have recourse to junk food on the whole, probably much of what they ate they grew themselves, getting good exercise gardening in the process, and didn't sit around all day looking at computer and phone screens.

It's entirely possible to keep fit without going to a gym.   If you purpose walk at pace fast enough to increase heart rate, swim about 1km a few times a week, use stairs instead of lifts, mow lawns, dig gardens, hell, even do housework, you can easily rack up three hours of good exercise a day.

Owning a big dog that needs plenty of exercise helps.


----------



## gav (19 April 2009)

Prospector said:


> Ok, gotcha!  Sorry.  :
> 
> But you did say this,
> 
> Not lazy, certainly not embarassed, and as for the physical exertion, well, I have a resting heart rate of 60 so getting that rate up requires me to exercise like a train. Much prefer to walk.




No worries, and point taken on the second part - I should have written "the majority" in front of it, certainly wasn't aimed at you.


----------



## bowman (19 April 2009)

Pappon said:


> bowman said:
> 
> 
> > 1/2 grated apple
> ...





I was under the impression that omega3 is useful in weight loss.

The flaxseed and walnuts are a good omega3 source, while the sesame and sunflower seeds contain omega6.

http://www.weightloss.com.au/articles/healthy-diets/omega3-and-weight-loss.htm

http://www.dietingtipsetc.com/omega_3_as_a_weight_loss_tool.html


----------



## gav (19 April 2009)

bowman said:


> I was under the impression that omega3 is useful in weight loss.
> 
> The flaxseed and walnuts are a good omega3 source, while the sesame and sunflower seeds contain omega6.
> 
> ...




Omega 3 is great for weight loss, good for the healthy heart, joints; and in higher doses acts as an anti-inflammatory.  I get my Omega 3 from eating salmon daily, and having 10ml liquid fish oil before bed.

But mixing fats and carbs is generally a no-no, for the reasons Pappon described.


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## matty2.0 (19 April 2009)

hate going to the gym?? mate ... how could you say that?? 

I love hitting the gym ... talk and socialize ... work out relieve stress ... look great ... feel great ... sex is wonderful!!!! people who hit the gym are healthy and full of life and vitality ... live life to its fullest. it only takes 1 hour a day no big deal.  

i love hot girls who hit the gym.

mate ... hitting the footy and eating junk is not "normal" ... most people who go to the footy *live *are fanatical fans with no lives who couch potato the foxtel in their spare time ... probably on a low wage ... 

jk jk ...

please don't flame.


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## kincella (19 April 2009)

waist measurement is important as you age...max for men is 40" women 35"..

and measure at the top of the hips...not higher...difference of 4" if I measure where it feels like my waist...but the lower measure  is higher
whoops 2" above the best size...more work to do still


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## helicart (20 April 2009)

Hi all. I'm a physiotherapist, physiologist, post grad nutrition quals etc...though I didn't come here to mouth off...

Rather, I have a *diet spreadsheet* that I'd appreciate a bit of feedback on if anyone wants to have a play with it. 

The xls has the backend algorithms for several commercially used products and I am looking at releasiing the xls into the wild, but want to get some feedback on its user friendliness. 

Some sections are pretty 'busy' and it isn't optimized for the general public, but sports coaches.

Some of the features you might be interested in are: 

- one of the most accurate energy expenditure calculators in existence. 
It uses the latest regression formulas from the scientific literature. 
Unlike the majority of professional dietitian's software, it doesn't use lifestyle mutipliers.

- an editable portion planner with several template portion guides.
- wt loss tracking graph. 
- Calorie ready reckoner

Once again, I'd appreciate any considered feedback.


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## nunthewiser (20 April 2009)

matty2.0 said:


> hate going to the gym?? mate ... how could you say that??
> 
> I love hitting the gym ... talk and socialize ... work out relieve stress ... look great ... feel great ... sex is wonderful!!!! people who hit the gym are healthy and full of life and vitality ... live life to its fullest. it only takes 1 hour a day no big deal.
> 
> ...





unreal


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## helicart (20 April 2009)

BTW, confirming what Gav says, I don't believe you have to go to a gym to stay in great shape. 

For weight control and loss, diet should always be your first consideration. You must be reasonably aware of the Calorie content of food to control your portion sizes. This hasn't been as critical in the past because our forebears weren't as sedentary and there wasn't as many processed convenience foods around. 

Don't rely on exercise as your primary means of wt loss. The calculator in the xls will make it very clear how little energy you burn doing the exercise most working people can fit in to a week. 


A rounded strength workout for middle aged and deconditioned people can be gained from the following:

- an upper body push exercise 
- an upper body pull exercise
- a lower body push exercise
- an abdominal strengthening exercise

These exercises can be done without equipment as calisthenics. 

Stretching is very good for relieving psychoemotional and physical stress.

All up, a strength and stretch routine can be done 3-6 times a week and 15-20 mins is enough. 

Nevertheless, exercise is not even the 2nd most important factor in weight loss. Water intake, adequate sound sleep, and stress reduction are. 

Because if you mess these up you will interfere with neurotransmitter levels in your brain, and develop unbalanced cravings for foods in the wrong portions. You will also knock your blood sugar and insulin sensitivity around. 

Finally, if you want to lose 0.5-1 kg a week and you are middle aged and not very fit, there's really no room for alcohol in your diet. However, 3 std drinks a week might not jeopardize your goals too much.

Hope this helps some of you.


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## matty2.0 (20 April 2009)

helicart said:


> Hi all. I'm a physiotherapist, physiologist, post grad nutrition quals etc...though I didn't come here to mouth off...
> 
> Rather, I have a *diet spreadsheet* that I'd appreciate a bit of feedback on if anyone wants to have a play with it.
> 
> ...




Mate ... great spreadsheet. 
Show us how to use it properly. I'm trying to gain weight ... What are your tips on that for the spreadsheet?


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## bowman (20 April 2009)

> Omega 3 is great for weight loss, good for the healthy heart, joints; and in higher doses acts as an anti-inflammatory.  I get my Omega 3 from eating salmon daily, and having 10ml liquid fish oil before bed.
> 
> But mixing fats and carbs is generally a no-no, for the reasons Pappon described.




OK, so the issue is not mixing protein and carbs, but mixing fats and carbs?

If that's the case would I be better off ditching the apple, yoghurt and honey and substituting some whey protein powder and water?

This brekky really keeps me going hunger free till lunchtime, (although sometimes I have a piece of fruit mid morning) so I am assuming it's mostly the fats and proteins in the nuts and seeds that are contributing to this.


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## MrBurns (20 April 2009)

matty2.0 said:


> Mate ... great spreadsheet.
> Show us how to use it properly. I'm trying to gain weight ... What are your tips on that for the spreadsheet?




I'll send you my diet..........


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## helicart (20 April 2009)

matty2.0 said:


> Mate ... great spreadsheet.
> Show us how to use it properly. I'm trying to gain weight ... What are your tips on that for the spreadsheet?





Mat, I presume you are on the ectomorph side and want to gain muscle. Genetics will have something to say about that and I'd have to meet you to know whether your goals are realistic.

here;s two pointers to use the spreadsheet to meet your goals:

- hard gainers often can't gain weight because they don't know their energy input and expenditure, so they don't eat enough. 

Presuming you are underweight and not carryng excessive fat reserves, to gain 0.5 kg of muscle you will need to eat an extra 100 Cals a day for a month, 1kg requires 200 Cals. this is on top of the figure on the Calories Required worksheet at Average Daily Energy Expenditure. 

- Boost your protein intake up to 2grams / kg of bodyweight. 
You can edit one of the menu worksheet templates to help you formulate a diet that meets this. Every time you enter one of the food items from the ingredients worksheet, the amount of protein in grams is updated in the top right table on the menu worksheet.  You can add new ingredients and foods to the 'ingredients' worksheet but you have to enter all the associated data for that item....... though there's enough healthy unprocessed foods on the spreadsheet already to get you to achieve your goals. 

- you will need to build up your weight lifting......Gav could probably help you there. but in general after establishing a good base to reinforce your cartilage, tendons, ligaments, joint capsules, and fascia, you would progress to lower rep sets, and push to failure. after every workout (esp the next day) you need to feel your muscles hurting from being microtraumatized as it is the trauma that stimulates the muscle hypertrophy response. 

- you willl need adequate sleep....no late nights. cut your booze intake down to 5 serves a week. 

- 3 weight lifting sessions a week.....no more than 3x20 min sessions of light cardio a week.

no point saying more without knowing more about you.


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## kincella (20 April 2009)

helicart...I was interested in your comment about water....care to give a brief explaination.... opened the link to your worksheet....it was downloading...next thing it opened a window in one of my secure programs with a message...so closed it...(rather special program and secure...not many out there would have it...) so surprised or not about the action
expected it to open in excel...but its not there either


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## Pappon (20 April 2009)

bowman said:


> OK, so the issue is not mixing protein and carbs, but mixing fats and carbs?
> 
> If that's the case would I be better off ditching the apple, yoghurt and honey and substituting some whey protein powder and water?
> 
> This brekky really keeps me going hunger free till lunchtime, (although sometimes I have a piece of fruit mid morning) so I am assuming it's mostly the fats and proteins in the nuts and seeds that are contributing to this.




Cut the honey from the meal and cut down the good fats to a smaller amount (5-10g) in that meal you quoted. Yes fats slow the absorption of other nutrients hence keeping you fuller longer but you look like you have to many good fats in that one meal. Have you fats before bed with no carbohydrates.


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## bowman (20 April 2009)

Thanks Pappon

I'll cut the honey, and juggle the quantities of the nuts and seeds until I get your suggested fat levels.


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## helicart (20 April 2009)

kincella said:


> helicart...I was interested in your comment about water....care to give a brief explaination.... opened the link to your worksheet....it was downloading...next thing it opened a window in one of my secure programs with a message...so closed it...(rather special program and secure...not many out there would have it...) so surprised or not about the action
> expected it to open in excel...but its not there either




re the xls, any file this complicated requires extensive macros.....your security software probably is alerting you about these.....


re water...........a book could be written about its importance.....and following is one  

Lean muscle tissue contains about 75% water by weight. Blood 95%, body fat 14%, bone 22%.

60% bodywt is water, 40% as intracellular fluid, 20% extracellular fluid (also called interstitial fluid). 

If you become dehydrated, the body pulls water from ICF and ECF back into the blood stream to maintain plasma volume. Why? because survival depends critically on blood volume....too little and your heart has to pump faster and stronger to push the blood out against peripheral resistance, overcome higher blood viscosity, and do its best to get it through all capillaries to the tissue requiring oxygen, nutrients, hormones, and CO2 removal. These shifts in fluid balance aren't minor things either. You can have around 40-50% of your ISF pulled back into the blood stream. And when you exercise, 20-30% (1-1.5litres) of your plasma can be moved out of blood into muscles...which is why you want to drink heaps before exercise. 

Moving on, when dehydrated, your tissue is drier, and cell processes don't work as efficiently, blood volume is often not high enough to circulate hormones and oxygen adequately. This applies especially to fat tissue. Fat needs to get adrenalin delivered to it to release fat stores for energy. Other tissue needs to get insulin delivered to it to help utilize glucose. If insulin isn't being delivered adequately due to lack of water to transport to cells, then you will feel weak quicker.....and crave sugar and fats.

So the long and short is you need adequate water in your body to optimize cell function, delivery of hormones/nutrients/oxygen to cells, sustain stable blood sugar levels, access fat reserves, and prevent untoward food cravings....

edit: how do you know when you are dehydrated? the simple guide I advise is when your urine is darker than chardonnay


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## kincella (20 April 2009)

well my diet is working...and there have been no take aways...no remorse...and not even some kfc for the dog last week....
might have an odd meal here and there this week...but not 3 meals a day any more etc...no more bad food....now reformed from my bad eating habits

geez that cheese and onion sauce can make even cardboard taste good 
cheers
wonder how burnsie is going ?


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## MrBurns (20 April 2009)

kincella said:


> wonder how burnsie is going ?




Dont ask, if I had this under control I wouldnt have been in this position in the first place, still trying will let you know when I get some results.


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## kincella (20 April 2009)

Burnsie...the book...7 habits of highly effective people....a good habit to learn is...start with the end in mind.....in your case 10kg lighter....so what steps do you have to take to achieve that goal...how long should it take.

just pretend you went bush walking for a week...but you pigged out and ate all your food in 3 days......it will take you 3 days to go back home...with no food......nothing you can do about it....no choices left...stop fighting...just do it..
or you could have decided to go BW with a diet in mind...all that extra food was too heavy to carry....so you limited your food intake each day to make it last the 7 days.....
and thats exactly what you and I both did this past year...we just pigged out...only now I have discarded almost half of mine.....
its mind over matter...
go for a short walk instead of thinking about food....notice how many slim people you see...look intensely at the fat ones....ask your self...do you really want to go there ???
all those prisoners of war..all were skinny...no fat ones
cheers
cheer up...its easier than you think


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## MrBurns (20 April 2009)

What give me hope to is you dont see to many fat alcoholics so one of my plans is to ramp up the grog intake for health reasons

No seriously, it's simply a matter of motivation, I WILL get there albeit the hard way.

I am actually getting there just have to fine tune my response the the weak points of the day for me.


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## nunthewiser (20 April 2009)

MrBurns said:


> What give me hope to is you dont see to many fat alcoholics so one of my plans is to ramp up the grog intake for health reasons
> 
> .





works for me m8 ...... ang on brb gotta continue the weight loss program

:bier:


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## Hank Moody (21 April 2009)

Everybody trying and not getting results should keep trying

Once you get into a good routine you will get results, and dont base your results on the biggest loser

1 - 2 kg per week is excellent

Also weight loss can go in swings, i have had plus weeks, and then 4kg weeks, with no changes to diet or exercise, so dont get dis heartened if you dont get immediate results

I am down 20kg this year, but still have another 25 to go.


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## Prospector (21 April 2009)

bowman said:


> I was under the impression that omega3 is useful in weight loss.




Now you see, that is one of those complications in weight loss.  Adding an oil (fat) to your diet aids in weight loss?  Now, I am not disputing that this might be true, but simply pointing out that weight loss is more than just calories in < energy out.


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## gav (21 April 2009)

Prospector said:


> Now you see, that is one of those complications in weight loss.  Adding an oil (fat) to your diet aids in weight loss?  Now, I am not disputing that this might be true, but simply pointing out that weight loss is more than just calories in < energy out.




How does this complicate things Prospector?  Not all fats are bad, some are actually very, very good for you.  As long as your calories in are still less than energy out, you will lose weight - regardless of fats in your diet.

Fat is actually considered a vital nutrient. It is an important part of your diet: It can not only be beneficial ... it's essential!  Fat supplies essential fatty acids for growth, healthy skin, vitamin-absorption and regulation of bodily functions.

The only type of fat you need to stay away from is trans fats.


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## Prospector (22 April 2009)

Gav, it complicates it because 'diet plans' suggest that you should avoid fats.  Maybe the issue is with the term 'diets'.    How many calories in a 1000mg Omega 3 capsule?


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## SM Junkie (22 April 2009)

So what if food is your addiction? 

 It is not as simple as energy in/energy out?  Some people with a weight problem use food for a reason, be it emotional comfort, punishment, something they can control when other things in their life are out of control?

Then there is the difficulty of breaking a serious habit and I’m guessing this is why most people fail.  In order to give up a behaviour, you need to replace it with another behaviour and the trouble is that the new behaviour may not be as rewarding as the old one.

Me, I’m the best at negative talk and self sabotage.  Although we know what to do, actually being able to do it is a completely different thing!!!


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## Prospector (22 April 2009)

Thats the thing smjunkie.  They are just bad habits, and sometimes you just need to smash them. I loved alcohol, didnt get drunk but certainly consumed 2-3 glasses on Friday and Saturday night.  Terrible for 'empty calories'.  Then I did the lemon detox diet; only for 3-4 days for the full on version, and by doing that I broke all my old bad habits. It was like I re-jigged my system.  I now only drink lo-cal champagne maybe Friday and Saturday at most, and the occasional gin and soda.  And diet?  Well, I now love the taste of fresh fruit and vegies and dont want to eat as much meat as I used to.  That was November last year.  And I look at women of my age around me and most of them (almost all of them) are just so overweight and my motivation is that I will NEVER look like them (grinning smugly to herself)  And I look at the absolute crap they eat, from soft drink to chips to lollies to chips to high carb meals, and my stomach turns!


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## Julia (22 April 2009)

gav said:


> How does this complicate things Prospector?  Not all fats are bad, some are actually very, very good for you.  As long as your calories in are still less than energy out, you will lose weight - regardless of fats in your diet.
> 
> Fat is actually considered a vital nutrient. It is an important part of your diet: It can not only be beneficial ... it's essential!  Fat supplies essential fatty acids for growth, healthy skin, vitamin-absorption and regulation of bodily functions.
> 
> The only type of fat you need to stay away from is trans fats.



I agree here.  Fat adds flavour too.   I add butter to vegetables and it makes the greatest difference.   An avocado, e.g. is much more beneficial to health than a couple of slices of bread which would be roughly equivalent in caloric value.


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## Pappon (22 April 2009)

SM Junkie said:


> So what if food is your addiction?
> 
> It is not as simple as energy in/energy out?  Some people with a weight problem use food for a reason, be it emotional comfort, punishment, something they can control when other things in their life are out of control?
> 
> ...





Well you have to ask yourself one question are you happy to be miserable or do you want to be HAPPY? Why choose to stay on a road to unhappiness? 

I've been a personal trainer and competitive bodybuilder and while i can show you the way to sustainable fat loss *i cannot give you the will*, this is somethng you have to find within yourself.

Why are you on this forum to be learn how to trade stocks for a profit i'm guessing, you will use this information and become proactive about doing it, same goes for fat loss stop making excuses, just do it "nike".


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## Calliope (22 April 2009)

Julia said:


> I agree here.  Fat adds flavour too.   I add butter to vegetables and it makes the greatest difference.   An avocado, e.g. is much more beneficial to health than a couple of slices of bread which would be roughly equivalent in caloric value.




Right. I love butter and I love avocados, especially the Shepard variety presently available. They don't discolour. I also find low fat or diet yogurts completely tasteless. I like the traditional Greek style. Thick and creamy.


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## Prospector (22 April 2009)

It is well known that fats add significantly to flavour and feelings of satiety. But they are calorie laden. So my point is that on one hand we are told to avoid fats in order to reduce weight and then we learn that omega fats help us to reduce weight. No wonder people get confused.


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## helicart (22 April 2009)

Prospector said:


> Gav, it complicates it because 'diet plans' suggest that you should avoid fats.  Maybe the issue is with the term 'diets'.    How many calories in a 1000mg Omega 3 capsule?





not that many = 9 Calories

compare that to 
100 Cals in a 285 ml regular beer, light stubbie, or 150ml wine.
25 Cals in a cup of salad. 

The govt and health pros are piss poor communicators re diet....part of the reason there's an obesity epidemic....most people have no idea how many Calories are in various foods.  Language like "avoid this avoid that....give preference to this and that"  doesn't help most people....

Many dietitians in particular talk in vague fluffy terms because some of them are just slack and others don't believe they should be giving prescriptive diets (a menu with specific recipes in the right portions), but rather teaching you the right food choices in the right portions. 

When in fact most people need a prescriptive diet to help them learn portion sizes and choices at first.


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## Pappon (22 April 2009)

Prospector said:


> It is well known that fats add significantly to flavour and feelings of satiety. But they are calorie laden. So my point is that on one hand we are told to avoid fats in order to reduce weight and then we learn that omega fats help us to reduce weight. No wonder people get confused.




Prospector i can see your confusion the best way to eliminate the "noise" do this, this will work for fat loss.

Medium- high protein (160-200g protein) spread over 5 meals

Medium carbs (140-160g) spread over 5 meals

Good fats (20-25g) spread over 4 meals

*10g of good fats at night* 5g morning and 5g another meal.


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## helicart (22 April 2009)

Prospector said:


> It is well known that fats add significantly to flavour and feelings of satiety. But they are calorie laden. So my point is that on one hand we are told to avoid fats in order to reduce weight and then we learn that omega fats help us to reduce weight. No wonder people get confused.




Pro, once again it is just poor communication by health authorities....'avoid' 'eat more of'....these are subjective terms and people need objective....

just about every food has fat in it including grains, fruit, veges....

It comes down to eating the right quantiites to sustain cell function and provide appropriate energy.

and keep in mind that our palate has evolved over 10s of thousands of years when we were much more active and Calories were not so readily available.....

we still have that genetic programming....but we have radically changed our lifestyles to sitting in chairs most of the week.


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## Sean K (22 April 2009)

Anyone here an advocate of the 'set weight' principle.

Well, it's more 'set fat' actually.

We are born with all the fat cells we will ever have (some say we can add some in the first year or 2 of life) and then we are stuck with them. We either expand them or make them smaller. 

Probably part of the whole ecto/meso/endomorph thing.

If this is the case, what's the point of 'dieting'?

Just a thought. 

Happy for one of the recent graduates to correct me on this 'theory'. I've been out of the game for a while. 


Oh, and a theory I have with fats being tastey is that it's part of the whole survival process of the human organism. In our development, fat was very very good for us. Kept us warm, provided protection, and allowed us to go through long periods with no food. It's also part of why our metabolisms slow dramatically when we 'diet', our body has great survival instincts. As abundant food is only a relatively new thing, our bodies are yet to adjust to this fact, and thus, it's more efficient at putting weight on, than taking it off. We'll probably go down that path at some stage when we're all dying of obesity. Those who are ectomorphs right now, may be the start of the process.  

I await to be crucified by the bodybuilders...


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## Pappon (22 April 2009)

kennas said:


> Anyone here an advocate of the 'set weight' principle.
> 
> Well, it's more 'set fat' actually.
> 
> ...




I do believe our body does have a certain weight/fat point for which they revert themselves back to if we don't continue to train and eat properly. BUT that's if we don't continue to train or eat properly.

Alpha receptors create the problem more alpha receptors are located in the trouble areas. Alpha receptors = less cyclic AMP (many different hormones working in many different cells utilize cyclic AMP in adipose tissue epinepherine increase in triglyceride hydrolysis [fat loss]. More alpha recetors = less cyclic AMP = less fat loss.
Caffeine is a stimulant and also slows the breakdown of cAMP. By keeping cAMP at high levels, it leads to more direct fat loss and increased thyroid function.

*'It's also part of why our metabolisms slow dramatically when we 'diet', our body has great survival instincts.'*

The bodys metabolism doesn't have to slow down, much to the fact that very good fat loss plans incorporate "high carb days" in there to reset the bodys metabolism and replenish spent glycogen and also to provide a mental break from the eating plan and training sessions.


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## bowman (22 April 2009)

I have become fixated on nutrition, more so than on weight loss per se. I figure that the former, coupled with exercise, will lead to the latter.

What are people's thoughts on the nutritional benefits of raw and lightly cooked foods over foods that are subjected to prolonged heat during cooking.

I'm not sure whether the scientific jury is still out on this one, or whether raw is generally more nutritious.

Lately I have veered towards raw salads and lightly steamed or stir fried vegies to go with my cooked meat, chicken and fish protein.


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## weird (22 April 2009)

bowman said:


> I have become fixated on nutrition, more so than on weight loss per se. I figure that the former, coupled with exercise, will lead to the latter.
> 
> What are people's thoughts on the nutritional benefits of raw and lightly cooked foods over foods that are subjected to prolonged heat during cooking.
> 
> ...




Man vs Wild on tonight on Discovery ... if you like it raw !


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## bowman (22 April 2009)

LOL

A lifestyle to look forward to if my trading strategy begins to blow goats, to borrow a phrase.


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## kincella (24 April 2009)

lost 6 kg so far.....eating one small meal a day this week, lost my appetite, lost all interest in food, and taste buds are shot...
no take aways or junk food...easy...no strenuous exercises....or lifestyle changes required.....
no KFC for the dog either.....
but she cost me an extra $750 this week,  she was killing a fluffy toy....plucka duck...and accidently hit her head on the leg of a desk....bloodshot eye etc....3rd eyelid popped out...and will probably need an operation next week to put it back.....the vet asked how did plucka duck fare...well he spent a couple of hours in hospital ....needed to have his foot stitched back up  (she unpicks the stitching to get the squeaker out)

how are you going Burnsie ?


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## bowman (24 April 2009)

kincella said:


> lost 6 kg so far.....eating one small meal a day this week, lost my appetite, lost all interest in food, and taste buds are shot...
> no take aways or junk food...easy...no strenuous exercises....or lifestyle changes required.....




Hi kincella, sorry to hear about the dog. Hope it's a speedy recovery.

I'm slowly beginning to remember why exercise has many blessings.

It was a slow trading day yesterday for me. Took my positions in the morning and then indulged in a tasty light lunch - a big bowl of asian style chicken broth with julienned vegies, pork balls and one beaten egg stirred through.

The bike riding is progressing well so around 2pm I took to a local road with some biggish hills. It was a tough workout...LOL. 

After my heart rate returned to normal I experienced that wonderful calm, relaxed feeling that you only seem to get after a strenuous physical endeavour. 

It's a good state to be in when you get back to the trading screens.


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## helicart (24 April 2009)

you guys want to keep in mind if you sustain Calorie intake less than your BMI for more than a few weeks, the proportion of weight lost that comes from lean tissue increases dramatically (as much as 30%).....an interesting test is, before dieting, do as many squats as you can, then as many bicep curls with 10-15kg as you can, don't do any specific training during dieting, then repeat after you've lost 10kg......anyone on less than 1000Cals won't be able to do as many because of the lean tissue lost....


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## gouryella (24 April 2009)

kincella said:


> lost 6 kg so far.....eating one small meal a day this week, lost my appetite, lost all interest in food, and taste buds are shot...
> no take aways or junk food...easy...no strenuous exercises....or lifestyle changes required.....




So are you seriously only eating one 'meal' a day?

If so, how long do you plan to keep that up?


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## MrBurns (24 April 2009)

kincella said:


> how are you going Burnsie ?




Slow kincella, a friend dropped in on Wednesday at 7 and left at 12;30 am, I dunno how many calories there are in brandy but I used a whole weeks worth that night, still trying and keep popping in here for inspiration.

When I look at whats already been acheived in here I can see clearly that I havent really started yet, just excuses, excuses. 

I'll get back to you.


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## kincella (24 April 2009)

youre right Burnsie....too many excuses....getting strarted on anything can be the hardest part...you have to take the first step

and yes seriously one meal a day....went for most of my life on an evening meal only...then started the 'breakfast most important meal of the day " then added lunch....escalated from there.

now I just eat mid morning or mid afternoon only....I can keep this up forever...and sometimes I forget to eat.....its just not a priorty any more

if I want to indulge on a one off now and again basis I can....
and it has a feel good glow to it....I dont look much different....except I need belts on all the pants
cheers


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## bowman (25 April 2009)

As the weather gets cooler I find I am looking for alternatives to salads. Keeping with the idea of only cooking my food lightly I have come up with a soup idea which is great either for lunch or dinner.

I like asian food so this soup is based on those flavours.

Start off with a good chicken stock and flavour it with things like garlic, ginger, chilli, soy, sesame oil, rice vinegar - experiment or borrow combinations from asian recipes. 
Make your own stock or buy the best quality you can, stock cubes don't really cut it.

For your carbs add a combination of finely julienned vegetables, or finely chopped green leafy vegetables - again experiment with combinations.

For protein add ingredients like chicken strips, pork, veal etc. I like to make small meatballs from minced meats, again seasoned with asian spices or herbs.


Eggs are a good addition. Either make an omlette and roll it up and slice into thin strips or just whisk in a beaten egg ( as in Cantonese egg flower soup).

To make the soup, get the flavoured chicken stock simmering and then add the meat first, simmer for a few minutes and then add the vegetables and egg and simmer very briefly.

Garnish with spring onions or coriander and slurp away.


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## kincella (25 April 2009)

I am pretty unhappy with my progress, lost 6kg in 2 weeks, but none off the waist...its gone off the hips.....
I must have looked like the dodgy bros today...2 arms full of shopping and my trousers falling down, so tried to stop them with the elbows stuck on the hips.........
I had forgotten the belt....so its another week or two of diet, until the waist is below the safe size...whatever that was...
*** brother of mine lost over 40kg in about 3 months....after he was diagnosed with diabetes 2....he was blind for 4 days , that scared the daylights out of him...
he ate most foods but only the amount that fits into a small 5" bowl, if you think it looks too small in the bowl...then just use the same amount on a larger plate....thats about all he did...ate what he liked...but much smaller amounts...oh and since they have the diabetes under control...he is back over 120kg....so its back to the smaller meals....like Burnsie...he says he is bored.....
now for the autumn/winter food...its all about the psycho......
I can eat a steak, or fish with salad no matter what the season is.....I eat salad all year...if one is out working in the cold thats different....soup or stews to warm them up inside..
I am assuming we are talking about ordinary meals indoors, in airconditioned comfort....
I make a delicious chinese style chicken and sweet corn soup...go lightly on the chicken
years ago there was a delicious packet mix of brown onion soup....basically a clear soup with onions....you can make your own without the preservatives..

or an old fashioned stew with diced pumpkin, potatoe, carrots,  and onions,
with peas and beans and smashed potatoe on the side....use a lean meat... there should not be too much in there that is not good for you....dieting or not...I add worcestershire, tomatoe and tobasco sauce in the cooking, with a teaspoon of vegemite....then a little gravy mix to thicken it

when family are here...they are mainly thin ....I might make a trifle, or golden syrup dumplings, or tiramisu (mine is the best I have ever tasted, the best restaurants make it too sour for me...too much coffee and its too strong)

the net is full of wonderful recipes for all tastes


----------



## MrBurns (25 April 2009)

kincella said:


> I am pretty unhappy with my progress, lost 6kg in 2 weeks, but none off the waist...its gone off the hips.....
> I must have looked like the dodgy bros today...2 arms full of shopping and my trousers falling down, so tried to stop them with the elbows stuck on the hips.........
> I had forgotten the belt....so its another week or two of diet, until the waist is below the safe size...whatever that was...
> *** brother of mine lost over 40kg in about 3 months....after he was diagnosed with diabetes 2....he was blind for 4 days , that scared the daylights out of him...
> ...




Now I'm starving


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## gav (25 April 2009)

kincella said:


> *** brother of mine lost over 40kg in about 3 months....after he was diagnosed with diabetes 2....he was blind for 4 days , that scared the daylights out of him...
> he ate most foods but only the amount that fits into a small 5" bowl, if you think it looks too small in the bowl...then just use the same amount on a larger plate....thats about all he did...ate what he liked...but much smaller amounts...oh and since they have the diabetes under control...he is back over 120kg....so its back to the smaller meals....like Burnsie...he says he is bored.....




Losing 40KG in 3 months is an amazing feat, but whatever he did was obviously not sustainable over time, and not a lifestyle change like he desperately needs.  

He went blind for 4 days before losing the weight, but has now let himself get back to over 120KG?! 

What exactly is he "bored" of?  Living?


----------



## bowman (26 April 2009)

This morning, I was going to post on the 'Flood of migrants" thread, a long winded but profound diatribe on the imminent threat to world peace, emerging from Afghanistan.

But then I thought, I've got to go for a 30 minute walk, do my dumbell workout, clean out the gutters, get some more winter vegie seeds in and maybe squeeze in a bike ride. I better stick to being trivial and post on here instead.

I've tried losing weight before in a variety of ways (the Atkins diet shed kilos quickly) and while I usually has initial success,  the weight always came back.

This time around, the weight is coming off slowly and I suspect that might be a good thing. I mean, that's the way it got there in the first place.

I'm confident I can keep slowly losing weight and become a fitter and healthier person because the measures I am taking this time are coming from a  more 'holistic' approach.  The measures take into account first and foremost good nutrition, and do so in a way that is not too  extreme and should be sustainable over time.

Here's a quick summary of the most important  points:

1. I quit drinking. Initially this was pretty difficult but my attitude now is that I've had a good run with this indulgence and it's time to move on.

2. I eat well. I have largely abandoned breads and other cereals, and most dairy from my diet, which again proved tricky,  but as I fine tune my diet with new ways to prepare tasty, healthy foods which I enjoy, the craving for these foods is slowly fading.

3. I enjoy my exercising. The morning walks and bike rides are a great way to savour the natural world in my neighbourhood and are an antidote to my time spent in front of screens. I am actually spending less time at my screens, which may help deal with my tendency to overtrade. 

In essence I am adopting appropriate new habits to replace old redundant ones and I feel good about that.

Apologies if this is sounding a bit hippieish or new ageish, but Byron Bay is just down the road and maybe the vibe is finally rubbing off.


----------



## Prospector (26 April 2009)

bowman said:


> This morning, I was going to post on the 'Flood of migrants" thread, a long winded but profound diatribe on the imminent threat to world peace, emerging from Afghanistan.
> 
> Apologies if this is sounding a bit hippieish or new ageish, but Byron Bay is just down the road and maybe the vibe is finally rubbing off.




Maybe the wind direction changed?    Not posting on diet stuff anymore, seems like one on this thread has issues with people asking questions.


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## kincella (26 April 2009)

Bowman...thats the correct way ...I agree with all of your plan...I am planning on reducing my alcohol intake for my next step...

Gav...if I continued to lose 3kg a week I would lose 39kg over a 3 month period...or 13 weeks....but since I am nowhere near as big as my brother around 10kg should do it for me...to get the waist down....unless the waistline thing is another furphy

brother cooks  to beat boredom...enjoys cooking and experimenting...obviously eats too much...its all about the quantity...imo
he has a 'bad back' and walks as much as possible as the pain is relieved by walking....I think he should do volunteer work...to stay out of the kitchen


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## kincella (26 April 2009)

prospector...can you spell this out...as I dont get it ?
" Not posting on diet stuff anymore, seems like one on this thread has issues with people asking questions."


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## bowman (26 April 2009)

Prospector said:


> Maybe the wind direction changed?    Not posting on diet stuff anymore, seems like one on this thread has issues with people asking questions.




LOL.
Come to think of it we have had a run of south easterlies recently. 

Kincella, the booze was a big one for me. And it's not just the drinking but the associated eating and snacking habits that seem to go with it.

It was a lot of fun at times though.


----------



## Prospector (26 April 2009)

kincella said:


> prospector...can you spell this out...as I dont get it ?
> " Not posting on diet stuff anymore, seems like one on this thread has issues with people asking questions."



hey Kincella, tried to send you a PM but couldn't so......
I asked a question on how many Calories in Omega oil; someone then raised the fact that I had asked that question in another thread (the Illegal Immigrant Thread) - and kind of made a big deal about it all.  Then they accused me of Tall Poppy syndrome, I guess suggesting that they were a tall poppy, for some reason.  All rather bizarre really and I have received quite a few PM's that also were more than a little confused by the whole thing.  Me included!


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## MrBurns (26 April 2009)

bowman said:


> Kincella, the booze was a big one for me. And it's not just the drinking but the associated eating and snacking habits that seem to go with it.
> It was a lot of fun at times though.




Boy I can relate to that, I was buying brandy by the half dozen bottles, the 1.125 litre bottles, just ran out and I'm not buying any more.


----------



## SM Junkie (26 April 2009)

It may be the influence of this thread, but today I'm turning over a new leaf and taking a healthier track.  

I'm also going to lose weight to help my father,  has been told that if he looses weight he can come off all this medication (blood pressure, etc).  Given he is extremely competitive, I thought it would be a good to keep each other company and motivated.

I'll be taking the slow track, only aiming for 1kg a week. But I'll be using some of the advice this thread has provided.  Particularly love the idea of eating food that has lived on the earth or has been grown in it.


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## kincella (26 April 2009)

He Burnsie...knew someone who had that diet company here in Melb ???advertised regularly on tv...they deliver the weeks food to your door...he was paying about $80 pw....had 5 kids, so said it would be too hard on the missus if he was to be serious...
he loved the food....
then I found this....
from  Jon Gabriel....yes he wrote a book about it.... have a quick read...he was suppposed to be on one of theose 911 flights....but went on a later flight.....he changed his life around from 180kg to 80kg guy

But if you can turn this fat switch off then your body WANTS to be thin and weight loss becomes easy and almost automatic. You simply crave less food, your metabolism speeds up and your body becomes very efficient at burning fat. Your body starts working with you in your weight loss effort and you become a fat burning machine.

So what I did was I devised a method of losing weight that focuses solely on turning off the fat switch. And that's how I lost my weight and that's how everyone else who is following The Gabriel Method is losing weight also.


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## MrBurns (26 April 2009)

kincella said:


> He Burnsie...knew someone who had that diet company here in Melb ???advertised regularly on tv...they deliver the weeks food to your door...he was paying about $80 pw....had 5 kids, so said it would be too hard on the missus if he was to be serious...
> he loved the food....
> then I found this....
> from  Jon Gabriel....yes he wrote a book about it.... have a quick read...he was suppposed to be on one of theose 911 flights....but went on a later flight.....he changed his life around from 180kg to 80kg guy
> ...




Many thanks for that, I'm going to get it.

http://www.gabrielmethod.com/


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## kincella (26 April 2009)

so am I and send it to my brother...
whoops had to edit it...that was the US website price
they have it at readings about $30


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## kincella (26 April 2009)

so had to phone around..borders has a copy in the Carlton store, Angus Roberston have none...I have the last one at Readings store (my area) put away....they have none at the St Kilda store...but 5 copies at the Port Melb store...or they can get one sent over to St Kilda for you...be there Tues

it may provide some clues as to how to turn off other triggers...for the things we do that are not good for us...


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## MrBurns (26 April 2009)

kincella said:


> so had to phone around..borders has a copy in the Carlton store, Angus Roberston have none...I have the last one at Readings store (my area) put away....they have none at the St Kilda store...but 5 copies at the Port Melb store...or they can get one sent over to St Kilda for you...be there Tues
> 
> it may provide some clues as to how to turn off other triggers...for the things we do that are not good for us...





Just bought it, $29.95 (5 cents off !)

Tims book shop in Kew, last one they had.

$30 and it's not even printed on good paper, I told the girl there's $29 profit in that, she laughed and took my money with glee.

Thanks again kincella, anything to motivate me a bit and this looks interesting.

At least thats $30 worth of KFC that I wont be buying


----------



## Prospector (26 April 2009)

Maybe Mr B you have set your goals a little too high at this stage.  And to expect 7 day compliance with a 'diet' is unreasonable.  So that when you do have a 'non diet' day, you simply feel guilty. And then maybe you might think, 'what is the point, I cant do it'

Perhaps you could aim for a 5 day compliance - 5 days of good healthy eating, then you can 'afford' to have 2 days of less than healthy eating.  That way you are making progress from your previous bad habits, which has got to be a good thing, as well as feeling ok when you dont follow a strict eating plan because you know that tomorrow, you will be back on track?

The juice of a lemon or two, squeezed into warm water seems to take my mind away from eating too many carbs too.


----------



## kincella (26 April 2009)

Good on you Burnsie...what made me think you were in the St Kilda area ?
....
I see he uses my method...of picturing yourself doing /being who or whatever you want to do....
an extract................
I want you to imagine in your mind's eye the perfect body for you. What does it look like? What size clothing are you wearing?

How does your new body feel?

Now I want you to imagine what it feels like to walk with your head high - feeling confident and proud of your new body.

Picture in your mind’s eye you easily maintaining your newfound weight. In fact imagine it happening automatically.

How does it feel for you to easily stay thin one year from now? 
................................................
you must also block out any pictures or thoughts in your mind of failing....picture a blackboard and then wipe it clean to erase the wrong thoughts


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## kincella (26 April 2009)

now I have to motivate self and picture self doing the housework....until I can get a new cleaner organised
the mind is a powerful tool...
cheers


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## MrBurns (26 April 2009)

I've got to get used to hunger as soon as I accept that I'm home.
I've done it before, it feels good, food tastes better and smaller amounts are fine.
Food must become fuel not a sport.


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## kincella (26 April 2009)

the stomach sends a message to the brain...but thats where you are in control. ..just give the stomach a glass of water ...its now happy its full... filled with a glass of water...or maybe it needs two glasses

you just get into the habit of having that glass of water between meals...
and all your meals are now only what you fit into that small bowl...chinese style small bowls...
no fat or preservatives...good healthy salads and fruit...tiny pieces of meat or fish....forget chicken.....and no bread or pasta...or if you must just small servings
once you get into the new habit and can sustain it...
you can do it if you want to...!!!!
then you can have special days where you eat your fav  food...just don't go overboard and into the big meals again..


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## MrBurns (26 April 2009)

Last time I ended up being repulsed by junk food, just couldnt eat it at all, anyway stop living in the past Burns get on with it !


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## gav (26 April 2009)

Prospector said:


> The juice of a lemon or two, squeezed into warm water seems to take my mind away from eating too many carbs too.




I learnt this week that lemon juice helps the body break down fats in our diet.  I will now include this with my weekly cheat meal.


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## kincella (26 April 2009)

lemons enhance the flavour of foods...I can not eat fish or avocardo without a good dousing of lemon juice...sprinkle it over all of your salads

I love the japanese salads with the slices of lemon and it tastes heavenly...its not sour....yet to find out how they do it

mother would give us a glass of warm lemon with sugar if she felt we were coming down with a clold


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## Prospector (26 April 2009)

gav said:


> I learnt this week that lemon juice helps the body break down fats in our diet.  I will now include this with my weekly cheat meal.




Ah, thanks for that Gav, not just my imagination then! :

Is Sushi good for you?  I hate it, cant stand the smell of the Agar. but just wonder if it is a good food for those who like it.


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## Julia (26 April 2009)

Prospector said:


> Ah, thanks for that Gav, not just my imagination then! :
> 
> Is Sushi good for you?  I hate it, cant stand the smell of the Agar. but just wonder if it is a good food for those who like it.



Go for sashimi instead, Prospector.   Raw fish is delicious if it's one with high oil content, e.g. fresh salmon, tuna (not the soft white fish).
Just slice thinly, sprinkle with a little salt, smidgen of sugar, then lemon juice and eat.  Don't leave it long once the lemon juice goes on as it 'cooks' it and ruins the taste.   This is also good with raw whitebait.


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## nunthewiser (26 April 2009)

Well after eating a bewt surf and turf washed down with 6 bourbons i must admit my weight loss program going much better than most of the ppl i hear of


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## Warren Greenspan (27 April 2009)

Hey Burnsie (can I call you that?)

I've just read this entire thread instead of completing the research I was doing!!!!!!!!!

There seems to be plenty of good advice and discussion from all sorts but most of it is confined to *diet *exercise or *mental attitude (willpower, lifestyle change etc).

You refer at times to a "love of grog" a "marriage breakup" and "boredom" and a "love of food".........Are you related to me?

Anyway I was just wondering if it might be worth your while to address the *emotional* (cant think of a better word) side of things first.

What would your honest responses be if you had to describe your level of happiness or contentment or fulfilment?
Are you positive or do you tend to despair?
How addictive is your nature?
Do you carry some unresolved hate or anger or jealousy etc.?
(sorry that it sounds like some pop psychology but I'm trying to paint a broad picture of what i mean)
I'm only asking rhetorically and I'm DEFINITELY not qualified but I just sense something in some of your posts........

It took me 25 years of failed attempts to quit the durries and cut right back on the beer only to end up with a chocolate addiction (now 10 kg overweight) so in no way am I preaching to you.

I wish you the best of luck 

regards Warren


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## MrBurns (27 April 2009)

Warren Greenspan said:


> Hey Burnsie (can I call you that?)




Call me anything but late for dinner.

What you describe is exactly what this book addresses http://www.gabrielmethod.com/ , up to Chapter 5 , not impressed by some of what he says or how he says it but I think the overall premise is sound.

Your emotional state will effect your weight and it's hard to fight it with diets unless you fix the underlying problem first.


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## kincella (27 April 2009)

well well well.....at least I do not have to worry about going shopping for food...with this pig virus thing out there....I can survive for a few weeks without food.....on my water diet
however there is still the dog food needed....
and one could buy their liquor from a drive in bottle shop.
I have the answer...I will shop online and have it delivered....simple


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## Pappon (27 April 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Call me anything but late for dinner.
> 
> What you describe is exactly what this book addresses http://www.gabrielmethod.com/ , up to Chapter 5 , not impressed by some of what he says or how he says it but I think the overall premise is sound.
> 
> Your emotional state will effect your weight and it's hard to fight it with diets unless you fix the underlying problem first.





That's what OPRAH said and look at her, just do the hard work it's like trading there's no secret ingredient that others have it's just plain old hard work


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## MrBurns (27 April 2009)

kincella said:


> well well well.....at least I do not have to worry about going shopping for food...with this pig virus thing out there....I can survive for a few weeks without food.....on my water diet
> however there is still the dog food needed....
> and one could buy their liquor from a drive in bottle shop.
> I have the answer...I will shop online and have it delivered....simple




Watch out for Mexican delivery boys with runny noses


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## Julia (27 April 2009)

Pappon said:


> That's what OPRAH said and look at her, just do the hard work it's like trading there's no secret ingredient that others have it's just plain old hard work



Yep, I agree with this.  I reckon, Mr Burns, if you just decide you are going to do it, stop with all the excuses, have a plan for what you will/will not eat, what exercise you will do (and this regardless of weather, being tired, whatever), in a month of religious self discipline you will find your emotional state improving substantially.

Doesn't really matter whether it's the chicken or the egg.  If you're feeling depressed/sorry for yourself, then actually doing something about getting fit and reducing the bulge will raise your self esteem and allow you to feel physically better.


----------



## MrBurns (27 April 2009)

Julia said:


> Yep, I agree with this.  I reckon, Mr Burns, if you just decide you are going to do it, stop with all the excuses, have a plan for what you will/will not eat, what exercise you will do (and this regardless of weather, being tired, whatever), in a month of religious self discipline you will find your emotional state improving substantially.
> 
> Doesn't really matter whether it's the chicken or the egg.  If you're feeling depressed/sorry for yourself, then actually doing something about getting fit and reducing the bulge will raise your self esteem and allow you to feel physically better.




Wise words there, I'll have to do that now as I got a bit peckish reading the book and ate it.


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## kpas (27 April 2009)

Hello,

Have not read the entire thread but I thought I would give you a run down of what worked for me.

Lack of exercise and a bad diet saw me peak at probably 123kg. I am ~100 now and while the fat is gone, I am still not at a healthy weight according to the body mass index. So ignore that thing because it doesn't make any sense. I got down as low as 96kg and my friends thought I was anorexic - 100 is about right for me.

Losing weight is very easy as long as you eat well; exercise and have the motivation.

Eating well is self explanatory. You don't have to quit junk food completely, but if you do have some - then make sure you go for an extra long run the next day. You need a balanced diet, I am not a dietitian so I won't go into it here - google it for better information that I could provide.

The weight crept up on my so slowly and I was so busy at the time that I literally didn't realise how big I had gotten.

While it took a complete lifestyle change for me to lose the weight, it was mostly getting over the mental attitude that I had at the time which got me through it. What I needed to get through my head: no one is so unfit that they cannot lose the weight. You just have to start a bit slower then you would otherwise and work your way up to a steady routine.

Start walking and when you are up to it, start jogging as long as you can until you need to break. Then get back into it and jog again til you can't keep going. Break and continue. If you can't run, try swimming. If you can't swim and you can't run - try cycling. If you can't cycle then start learning 

In terms of exercise, set large goals for yourself so you are forcing your body to exercise more then you can otherwise mentally handle. By this, I would run 5km away from my house, so I would have to at least walk the 5km back to get home. It wasn't until I did this that I really saw some results.

I found that once you start to hit your limits, you need to mentally push past the pain and keep going. I often find myself getting sore legs or whatever but mentally telling myself to keep going and to ignore the pain. For some people listening to music works better.

Once you start exercising, it makes it very easy to not snack on junk food because mentally you do not want to waste all that hard effort you have just put in by running 10km.

Find something that motivates you. It could be a photograph of who you used to be; it could be something that you will reward yourself with when you have reached a sensible weight. Put it somewhere where you will see it everyday and remind you of your goal.

In terms of weight loss, set a realistic goal. Exercise is addictive and people who have been overweight often find themselves in a healthy weight range, still trying to lose weight.

Try to incorporate exercise with socialising - find a friend who also wants to go for a walk and set a weekly date with them. Catching up and getting exercise at the same time is a good excuse not to go for a latte and cake.

Try different types of exercise - swimming, biking and running will burn the most calorys, but walking is just as good. All you need to do is keep your heart rate up at an accelerated pace and you are burning calorys. Surfing is another great calory burner if you are lucky enough to live near a beach.

Another good motivator is to mark up 12 weeks on a piece of paper and put 4 check boxes against each week. Put this on the fridge to remind you that you have 4 lots of exercise to achieve this week.

At my peak I was losing approx. 1kg/week and running upwards of 60km/week to achieve this. Some people will shed more then this, but from what I have read, to lose any more then 1kg/week it could be unhealthy. I see what the guys are losing on biggest loser on TV and I can't believe they are doing it. I havn't seen a full episode but those guys must be burning so many calorys on a daily basis and taking in very little carb or sugar that their bodys are just shedding the fat to get energy. Amazes me - also a little scary because it sets a standard for people at home to think that 6kg/week is realistic. It just isn't.

For breakfast I would have low fat cereal (weet bix)/low fat milk and fruit.

For lunch I would have some sort of carbohydrate - sandwiches, pasta. Better to have the carbs at lunch to give the body time to digest them. You never want to have carbs at night because you won't burn them off in time.

For dinner most nights I would eat a normal meal, but if I was not super hungry when I got home I would simply have vegetables/fish/salad - something very light and enough to fill the gap without fasting or going hungry.

If still hungry, I would eat fruit.

OH, and you have to cut down alcohol. Beer is the worst; straight spirits are okay (it's what you mix them with that is bad) and of all, wine is okay. Of them all, straight white spirits I think have the least bad stuff in them. If you can avoid alcohol altogether - it is better for your body.

Alcohol actually slows your metabolism down as it tries to process the toxin.

Avoid coffee; put a bottle of water on your desk at work instead. Most people find they drink coffee as a break from work - it dehydrates you and while it's not terrible for you (and may even boost your metabolism) you can do without it. Just drink water.

And one other thing that most people don't realise. You need to drink lots of water. Sometimes hunger pains are actually the body's message that it is dehydrated. Again, when dehydrated the body's metabolism slows down. Keep up plenty of water and you will avoid this.

I must admit that this diet was only while cutting away fat. Once I got into the routine of exercising regularly and got down to a reasonable weight it meant I could enjoy some normal food and also alcohol without putting the weight on.

I am by no means an olympic athlete and I am by far a gym rat in terms of muscle - running is what works for me and the day my knees are no longer good I will take up swimming or walking.

One other thing that I should mention is that exercise is very therapeuric. It gives you time to think and time to wind down. Fantastic if you live close enough to work that you can run all the day's stress away.

OH and do not get on the scales every day and check your weight. Do a monthly weigh in and maybe even skip the first month. It will take your body a little while to get into the routine, if you check it every day then you will get 
disappointed because it just doesn't work that way.

I went from 123 to 109 without checking my weight. Was probably one of the best things I could have done.

Hope the above helps, and hope anyone reading this gets the motivation they need to succeed!

Best of luck!


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## Aussiejeff (28 April 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Wise words there, I'll have to do that now as *I got a bit peckish reading the book and ate it*.




As long as it was Low fat, Low GI.


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## bowman (28 April 2009)

Following the advice of Pappon, Gav and others I have modified my "cereal free muesli ' breakfast to reduce the good fats content by rebalancing the quantities of the ingredients. I also removed the honey and yoghurt.

1 small grated sweet apple
1/2 tsp cinnamon
1 tsp sesame seeds
1 tsp sunflower seeds
3tsp ground flaxseed (use a spice/coffee grinder)
1/2 handful chopped nuts (eg 10 almonds)

Mix together and moisten with a squeeze of orange juice.

-----------------------------------------------------------

There's a couple of free downloads on this link which look sensible.

http://www.johnberardi.com/newsletter/offer.htm


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## Pappon (28 April 2009)

bowman said:


> Following the advice of Pappon, Gav and others I have modified my "cereal free muesli ' breakfast to reduce the good fats content by rebalancing the quantities of the ingredients. I also removed the honey and yoghurt.
> 
> 1 small grated sweet apple
> 1/2 tsp cinnamon
> ...






Bowman, this is what i do for breakfast:

Oats 60-70g (splenda sachets to sweeten so it's not BLAND as oats are)
blueberrys
1 teapsoon of flaxseed oil (5g)
1 protein shake (30-35g of protein)
I add fibre to it sopmetimes in the form of pysillum husk (5g 1 teaspoons)


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## bowman (28 April 2009)

Cheers Pappon

I don't eat any cereals at the moment so I dropped the oats from my brekkie menu and I'm avoiding anything artificial so sweetners are out.

Using a sweet apple like 'Delicious' makes this pretty tasty.

I do my protein shake in the arvo after a modest dumbbell workout.


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## white_goodman (28 April 2009)

mmm i had kangaroo steaks with 4 eggs (1 yolk) for breakfast


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## bowman (28 April 2009)

white_goodman said:


> mmm i had kangaroo steaks with 4 eggs (1 yolk) for breakfast




I eat kangaroo quite often (and eggs).  What happened to the other 3 yolks.

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/Egg_Yolk.html


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## white_goodman (28 April 2009)

bowman said:


> I eat kangaroo quite often (and eggs).  What happened to the other 3 yolks.
> 
> http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/Egg_Yolk.html




i dont need 4 yolks in the morning, i get alot of my fats from fish and natural peanut butter... I eat kangaroo every day


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## Pappon (28 April 2009)

white_goodman said:


> i dont need 4 yolks in the morning, i get alot of my fats from fish and natural peanut butter... I eat kangaroo every day


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## bowman (28 April 2009)

white_goodman said:


> i dont need 4 yolks in the morning, i get alot of my fats from fish and natural peanut butter... I eat kangaroo every day




Why not just eat 2 whole eggs.


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## Aussiejeff (28 April 2009)

If this doesn't convince Mr Burns to keep hard at it (the weight loss program, I mean  ) then nothing will!

On the day I had a blood cholesterol sample taken on 30 Jan 2009, I weighed 112kg. The results of that test were (with "fail" results bolded & the docs' desirable range in brackets):

Total Cholesterol - *6.0* (0.0-5.5)
Triglyceride - 1.7 (0.5-2.0)
HDL Cholesterol - 1.2 (0.9-2.2)
LDL Cholesterol - *4.0* (0.0-3.4)
Chol/HDL Ratio - *5.0* (0.0-5.0)

Not pretty!

On the same day I had the blood taken, I gave up milk, cheese, processed & sugary cereals, bread, butter & margarine.

In the past 3 months till today, [size=+1]I have lost 17.5kg.[/size] 

No change to exercise regime etc. Increased occasional Ferrous Iron & calcium supplements to counter the big drop in dairy foods.   

Today I got the results of a blood sample I had taken last week when I was at 95kg.

Total Cholesterol - 5.3 (0.0-5.5) _down 12%_
Triglyceride - 1.1 (0.5-2.0) _down 35%_
HDL Cholesterol - 1.3 (0.9-2.2) _up 8%_
LDL Cholesterol - *3.5* (0.0-3.4) _down 12.5%_
Chol/HDL Ratio - 4.1 (0.0-5.0) _down 18%_

Only one stat in the bad zone now and coming down fast. Great result I reckon! I can look forward to even better results in another couple of months when I should attain my goal ideal BMI weight of 90kg.

Life is looking up!



Go Burnsie, GO!!

PS: Calcium, iron, magnesium, potassium levels from last blood test all fine now too.


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## Pappon (28 April 2009)

Aussiejeff said:


> If this doesn't convince Mr Burns to keep hard at it (the weight loss program, I mean  ) then nothing will!
> 
> On the day I had a blood cholesterol sample taken on 30 Jan 2009, I weighed 112kg. The results of that test were (with "fail" results bolded & the docs' desirable range in brackets):
> 
> ...





Forget BMI it's garbage


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## bowman (28 April 2009)

Congratulations AJ.

Measurable success and progress is a great feeling.

I just tackled a long steep hill on my bike for the second time in a week. On my first attempt I got about 1/3 of the way before I gave up. Today I got almost to the top.

Next week, with a few more k's under my belt I hope to see what's on the other side.


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## white_goodman (28 April 2009)

from a former fat kid to bodybuolder-esque person (lost 20kgs in 6 weeks) i can say 90% of weight loss is done in the kitchen.... dont know if this has been mentioned...

ill see if i can post some good videos to illustrate the importance of food and when to eat certan types...

EDIT: here it is, its more bodybuilding specific but has some good bits of advice to any that are confused or lacking dietary knowledge

Part 1: http://www.dailymotion.com/relevanc...ideo/x2st3r_milos-sarcevs-seminar-pt1_extreme

Part 2: http://www.dailymotion.com/relevanc...ideo/x2stak_milos-sarcevs-seminar-pt2_extreme

Part 3: http://www.dailymotion.com/relevanc...ideo/x2svbs_milos-sarcevs-seminar-pt3_extreme

Part 4: http://www.dailymotion.com/relevanc...ideo/x2svrw_milos-sarcevs-seminar-pt4_extreme

Part 5: http://www.dailymotion.com/relevanc...ideo/x2svxu_milos-sarcevs-seminar-pt5_extreme

Part 6: http://www.dailymotion.com/relevanc...ideo/x2sw5i_milos-sarcevs-seminar-pt6_extreme


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## Happy (28 April 2009)

kpas said:


> Hello,
> 
> ..
> 
> ...





Inspiring, interesting and achievable.

As mentioned few times already, change of lifestyle is needed in order to balance out intake versus output of calories.

Importance of WATER cannot be stressed enough.


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## kpas (28 April 2009)

Happy said:


> Inspiring, interesting and achievable.
> 
> As mentioned few times already, change of lifestyle is needed in order to balance out intake versus output of calories.
> 
> Importance of WATER cannot be stressed enough.




Thanks - good to hear that someone has been motivated by it.

I was reading a news article on the guy who won biggest loser today. He has been on heart and cholesterol medication for many years. Now he has dumped the weight he is off that medication. Truely amazing that he can get rid of a potentially lethal heart condition at the age of 57.

One other aspect that not many people have touched on is how much better it makes you feel.

Being fit means you sleep better and you feel more energetic during the day.

Not to mention the self esteem factors - all round you become a happier person.

People should be making excuses to do it, not excuses why they can't do it.

A disciplined diet and 30 minutes of heart rate increasing exercise a day is all it takes.

If you find it hard to find 30 minutes, consider hiring an exercise bike and doing it in front of the TV. This way you only have to stagger 10 metres when you are done 

If people are interested, HIIT is something I used to do when I was going to the gym. High Intensity Interval Training - 20 minutes of that a day and I was losing weight.

20 minutes is nothing really - if you can't find 20 minutes then you aren't being honest with yourself.


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## Julia (28 April 2009)

kpas said:


> One other aspect that not many people have touched on is how much better it makes you feel.
> 
> Being fit means you sleep better and you feel more energetic during the day.
> 
> ...



Agree absolutely.


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## gav (29 April 2009)

white_goodman said:


> from a former fat kid to bodybuolder-esque person (lost 20kgs in 6 weeks) i can say 90% of weight loss is done in the kitchen.... dont know if this has been mentioned...
> 
> ill see if i can post some good videos to illustrate the importance of food and when to eat certan types...
> 
> ...




Milos is fantastic.  I met him 2yrs ago, really nice guy too.


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## alwaysLearning (29 April 2009)

white_goodman said:


> from a former fat kid to bodybuolder-esque person (lost 20kgs in 6 weeks) i can say 90% of weight loss is done in the kitchen.... dont know if this has been mentioned...
> 
> ill see if i can post some good videos to illustrate the importance of food and when to eat certan types...
> 
> ...




hello, thank you for posting this. This will help me!


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## kincella (29 April 2009)

now the inches are starting to come off the waist...still no appetite or taste buds
bought a small bread roll, the tiny one , a dinner roll, cut it thinly...avocado, tuna and cheese...threw half away...that was my tiny sandwich... for the day....thats it for today.. no taste buds...no point eating....it was the bread that turned me off....its not on the list of things to eat


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## MrBurns (29 April 2009)

I think I've lost 2 or 3 kilos. I think it's the book, mental attitude, it's working kincella, if I can do another 5 I'll know I'm onto something


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## kincella (29 April 2009)

I just know you can do it....I have faith in you...hallelujah
 have you heard this group....the choir of hard knocks....???
if they can do anything......then everyone can....
here is the song.....
just have faith in yourself......the results are enormous
cheers
http://www.stlyrics.com/songs/s/shrek9656/halleluja319876.html


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## MrBurns (29 April 2009)

kincella said:


> I just know you can do it....I have faith in you...hallelujah
> have you heard this group....the choir of hard knocks....???
> if they can do anything......then everyone can....
> here is the song.....
> ...




If this persists I'll dedicate the first 5k to you


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## Prospector (29 April 2009)

MrBurns said:


> If this persists I'll dedicate the first 5k to you




I bet he will look forward to receiving that in the mail! :


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## MrBurns (29 April 2009)

Prospector said:


> I bet he will look forward to receiving that in the mail! :




Sweet photo, 2nd 5k goes to you


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## Prospector (29 April 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Sweet photo, 2nd 5k goes to you




You didnt 'know' me before.  I 'used' to be the sweet tragic Anna; on the day she died I removed that avatar and did an RIP thread.  Poor Duckman never got over it; it is his birthday tomorrow and he requested a visit of Anna for the day!  As IRL, she wont be there for long, so enjoy while it lasts!


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## MrBurns (29 April 2009)

Prospector said:


> You didnt 'know' me before.  I 'used' to be the sweet tragic Anna; on the day she died I removed that avatar and did an RIP thread.  Poor Duckman never got over it; it is his birthday tomorrow and he requested a visit of Anna for the day!  As IRL, she wont be there for long, so enjoy while it lasts!




Very thoughtful of you


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## Prospector (29 April 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Very thoughtful of you




He he, she has just powdered her nose - just found the original one he drooled over!  I had to do some internet searching to find her - erghh there is some real scary stuff in there!


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## bowman (30 April 2009)

I imagine this will only appeal to those of you with an 'alternative' bent (hands up please) but here goes anyway.

I've been experimenting with blending green leafy veges and fruits, as a rich source of vitamins.

The idea came from this website which I stumbled upon while looking for information about the nutritional benefits of raw foods.

http://www.greensmoothiechallenge.com/

I just got back from my walk during which I collected a big handful of dandelion leaves  and this mornings green smoothie tasted pretty good.

Handful of dandelion leaves (washed)
 ½ an apple
 ½ banana
squeeze of lemon
 ½ cup squeezed orange juice

Blend thoroughly.

Instead of my usual 'fruit and nut' breakfast I  will follow this up in an hour or so with 2 scrambled eggs.

According to the USDA Bulletin #8, "Composition of Foods" (Haytowitz and Matthews 1984), dandelions rank in the top 4 green vegetables in overall nutritional value. Minnich, in "Gardening for Better Nutrition" ranks them, out of all vegetables, including grains, seeds and greens, as tied for 9th best. According to these data, dandelions are nature's richest green vegetable source of beta-carotene, from which Vitamin A is created, and the third richest source of Vitamin A of all foods, after cod-liver oil and beef liver! They also are particularly rich in fiber, potassium, iron, calcium, magnesium, phosphorus and the B vitamins, thiamine and riboflavin, and are a good source of protein.

http://www.leaflady.org/health_benefits_of_dandelions.htm


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## helicart (30 April 2009)

gav said:


> Milos is fantastic.  I met him 2yrs ago, really nice guy too.




Milos might be a nice guy Gav but his grip on the facts is dodgey....

In Video 5, at 6:25 mins, he states emphatically that the RMR of muscle is 69 Calories per lb per day. 

Let's explore that. 

The unequivocal fact as garnered from any bioenergetics primer text, is that for a non obese man, around 40% bodywt is muscle. 

Therefore, a 200 lb non obese man has roughly 80lbs of muscle. 

So according to Milos, the BMR of this man's muscle alone would be
80 lb x 69 Cals/day = 5520 Cals/day.

Anyone familiar with BMR would recognise immediately that this is impossible and that Milos pulled his 69 cals/lb out of his bum. Now considering these videos have been around for a while, you think if Milos had just had a temporary slip up, he might have later realized, or had some well informed bodybuilder viewer bring his attention to the error, and then re-shot that video.......

Where I guess Milos has erred is in reading some science literature about the BMR of muscle in kg, which he has divided by 2 to do a rough conversion to Cals/lb, but he then compounds the error by a factor of 10....

i.e. 
the scientificaly validated BMR of muscle tissue is 13 Cals/kg/day.
Milos divides by 2 = 6.5 Cals /lb, then erroneously factors by 10 = 65Cals/lb. 

Maybe you guys can bring his attention to that. 

Below is a table on this stuff from 

P. 132
Bioenergetics Primer for Exercise Science
By Jie Kang
Edition: illustrated
Published by Human Kinetics, 2007
ISBN 0736062416, 9780736062411


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## white_goodman (30 April 2009)

i dont really know about the calories burnt thing, but then when to eat certain type of foods has helped me alot... im able to do pb's quite frequently now cos im adaquately fueled for when i need it.


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## gav (30 April 2009)

helicart said:


> So according to Milos, the BMR of this man's muscle alone would be
> 80 lb x 69 Cals/day = 5520 Cals/day.




I don't see a problem with this.  What's your point?


----------



## helicart (30 April 2009)

gav said:


> I don't see a problem with this.  What's your point?






Never mind, I just made it....


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## gav (1 May 2009)

helicart said:


> Never mind, I just made it....




And now I'll make mine...

The so called "scientific facts" you provided are not accurate enough to use when determine ones calories.  Assuming the average male (who's not overweight) carries 40% muscle is just too much of a generalisation when you try to accurately calculate ones calorie requirements.  First, the definition of "obese" needs to be defined.  This can be done many ways, and is still a topic of debate.  It was not too long ago that the "experts" (and I use that term loosely) claimed BMI was the best indicator of determining if someone was overweight.  Yet this has been well and truly squashed.  

The overall average or median may be 40% muscle for a particular case study, but the range either side of this figure is just too far to apply it to all men not deemed "overweight", not to mention other variables.  The same problems as calculating BMI apply here.  

I have a very light frame/bone structure.  My wrists, ankles and waist are tiny.  There is a 17yr old Pacific Islander at my gym who weighs the same as me, and is very fit and lean.  However, due to his Pacific Island genetics, his bone structure is extremely thick.  The circumference of his wrists and ankles far exedes that of mine (probably by 50%).  It is very obvious that he carries a lot less muscle than I do.  How can you use such a generic "40% of bodyweight is muscle" rule, to men that have completely different body types?  You can't.  

The 40% rule is even flawed on one person, if their bodyfat levels change. For example: Lets assume the 40% rule is accurate for John Smith.  We'll say he's 200lbs and carries 80lbs muscle.  He is fit and healthy and has 15% bodyfat (certainly not overweight).  John wants a 6 pack because he goes to the beach regularly in Summer.  John diets and loses 16lbs and now has great abs.  He now weighs 184lbs and has 7% bodyfat, but has lost no muscle.  According to the 40% rule Johnny now only has 73.6lbs of muscle, when he actually has 43.5% muscle.  Which means the percentage of his body weight which is muscle has increased almost 10%, when in fact the actual amount of muscle has not increased at all.  

The same rule applies the other way around too.  Imagine a footballer who is fit and lean during football season, but does not train over the summer at all, drinks too much and eats too much.  He goes from 180lbs to 200lbs - a 10% increase in bodyweight, but is still not "overweight".  Do you really think that 40% of the 20lbs he gained is muscle?

What about men who are not overweight, yet do no physical activity what so ever...  You would have to be extremely nieve to believe they would carry the same muscle percentage for their bodyweight as a sports person or weight trainer.


Milos isn't pulling anything from his bum - actually, the only one doing that is you.  You go and take someone elses "scientific findings" (which are nothing more than an average or median percentage for a group of people), throw them into the middle of Milos' equation when they are of little relevance, and then wonder why you get such a strange answer. 

The only scientifically ACCURATE way to determine ones muscle mass percentage is to take a dexa scan.  Only then could you determine what the calorie requirements based on one's muscle mass, instead of using the flawed 40% rule.


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## kincella (1 May 2009)

Gav...a suggestion for you others, in the friendliest way of course
....some of you are really into body building and being fit....versus dieting or weight loss.....*** maybe the mods can sift through and move the posts about body building to the new thread....

so how about you start another thread thats more appropriate to what you do...
and then just leave the weight loss thread to remain on topic...you can all contribute to ideas on the weight loss....but I believe a thread for bodybuilding is more appropriate to what some of you are doing....

I am a couch potatoe type....just interested in losing some of the extra weight...without too much effort....or to change my lifestyle
cheers


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## gav (1 May 2009)

kincella said:


> I am a couch potatoe type....just interested in losing some of the extra weight...without too much effort....or to change my lifestyle
> cheers




And that is why the vast majority fail...


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## white_goodman (1 May 2009)

gav said:


> And that is why the vast majority fail...




and thats why people that wanna lose a 'little weight' never keep it off, being fit and healthy is a lifestyle thing, and once u get there its suprisingly easy to maintain...

i workout 3 hours a week, 4 x 45min sessions... thats not too much of an effort when you think about it...

you could almsot draw similarities to trading..

all the hard and exciting stuff starts early on, then once u get to a professional level over time its suprisingly easy and just apart of your life (based on what ive read not experienced ha). Where as kincellas comment resembles that of a Robot trader or someone that jumps from system to system trying to find a holy grail


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## bowman (1 May 2009)

I would welcome  most input about weight loss, nutrition and exercise on this thread as I see that the three are linked. 

Body builders, if well informed, are also probably at the cutting edge of nutrition and much of that information can be of use to the avearge Joe who just wants to feel better, look better and be fitter.

I suggest we need a balance here so that those at the 'elite' level don't overwhelm the rest of us with science that is more relevant to competitive bodybuilding.

Having said that though, it's been a real education so far, and even though some of this stuff goes over my head for the time being, I do welcome sound nutritional input that is based on science.


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## gouryella (1 May 2009)

People seem to think 'bodybuilding' is somehow irrelevant to weight loss for the average person. I think the term 'bodybuilding' is being used too loosely here anyway.

To me, a bodybuilder is somebody who dons the budgie smugglers, steps on stage and competes. The rest of us are just guys (and girls) who exercise and lift weights to achieve whatever goals we have, be it weight loss, sports performance or to look good nekkid.

You won't find any sport in the world where its athletes know more about manipulating their diets to improve their body composition. Therefore, most of you could do well to take some advice from them.

The battle between human nature and mother nature has been going on for a while now, it seems mother nature is winning. There are more and more obese people, yet _apparently_ we know more about how the body works than ever. Men weren't meant to have man boobs, people weren't meant to have their stomachs stapled, fat wasn't meant to be sucked out of your body by a straw!

Human nature is most people's biggest enemy, and human nature's most powerful weapon is *the excuse*. Human nature wins most battles, but mother nature always wins the war!


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## kincella (1 May 2009)

Congratulations Burnsie ! its just like flicking a switch....off grog , on for water etc...
why this type of dieting works for me...it takes the focus *off* food....and hence temptation to indulge....
when I tried other types of dieting...*all the focus was on the food*...which food, what amount...the next meal...shopping for food etc...you could become engulfed by all the focus on the food...

my method is the opposite....absolutely no food for the first week or longer...
no need to think about it....just turn off the switch....
and then by the time you are ready to rethink the whole thing...the taste buds and appetite have gone...dissapeared
the weight and inches are decreasing.....and I get a natural high


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## MrBurns (1 May 2009)

kincella said:


> Congratulations Burnsie ! its just like flicking a switch....off grog , on for water etc...
> why this type of dieting works for me...it takes the focus *off* food....and hence temptation to indulge....
> when I tried other types of dieting...*all the focus was on the food*...which food, what amount...the next meal...shopping for food etc...you could become engulfed by all the focus on the food...
> 
> ...




The natural high is fantastic as I recall, can hardly wait to experience it again


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## Prospector (1 May 2009)

Hey Mr B and Kincella you are describing the same flicking on of the switchh that I felt too. 
Gav,hubby scoffs at the scales that measure body fat (worked in SASI) so he probably has a valid point. But I did notice the % did improve after weight loss.  What are your thoughts about those scales - just as an indication and not as an absolute measure?

Muscle mass is important in the weight loss issue btw.


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## kincella (1 May 2009)

Prospector
I spend my time on financials and investments...so weight loss is just a simple and easy thing....not into the science of it etc
....Sorry, but I have no interest other than...do the trousers fit or not...if not I need to reduce.....and to prove same I weigh myself...whoops yes its gone over the line....
since I sit at a desk all day...doing other things....and remember I am a boomer....I do not care about muscles etc
I am reasonably trim....so the tiniest bit of extra weight becomes a big deal...
its not like I am 80 or 180 kg
my appearance is very important to me...and I have a rather expensive wardrobe of clothes.....hence the need to keep it all fitting just right.......
cheers


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## kincella (2 May 2009)

this is proof of ' mind over matter'....still no appetite....had one small meal yesterday..3 very small tuna patties...with the cheese and onion sauce drooled over it...
thats all that was available....in the fridge....it may as well have been cardboard with water on top
no bread all week
I will do a weigh in tomorrow, and measurements....3 weeks since commenced
I am finding this so easy....there is no temptation when I am out shopping...I can walk past the cafe's and takeaway places....without the slightest hesitation.....thats a nice ' high'
cheers
ps am just wondering how selective this mind over matter thing is....the water tastes nice ??? yet taste buds are shot....maybe the water is actually awful....but without the taste buds kicking in....it tastes Ok


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## Sean K (2 May 2009)

Kincella, What's your plan for when you've made your target weight, or pants size? The transition from radical food reduction and back to 'normality' will be difficult.


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## kincella (2 May 2009)

I find it easy enough...I will eat one or two small meals a day...make up an antitipasto if the appetite needs temptation ....eat as a basic maintenance plan...
the appetitie will come back eventually....in the meantime I do not mind if I lose more than intended....that is easily fixed with some indulgence...
a tiramisu...or trifle...all home made of course


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## Sean K (2 May 2009)

I've found on severe food reduction plans that the metabolism will be seriously lowered. You need a way to keep that humming, or you might just slip back to set weight.


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## kincella (2 May 2009)

I probably do this every year...after xmas...all those lunches and parties leading up to Xmas....sometimes I do it before ...in advance....
I enjoy cooking...traditional Australian /English style...Roast Turkey with roasted vegetables for Xmas lunch...trifle with all the cream etc

however I have a very strong disposition....so when I make up my mind to do something or anything...I will see it through to the end...I do not give up easily...or change mid course....hence the water diet has worked for me for years.....

from wikipedia
dispositional attribution
is the explanation of individual behavior as a result caused by internal characteristics that reside within the individual, as opposed to outside (situational) influences that stem from the environment or culture in which that individual is found.

For example, dispositional optimism is a tendency that applies generally across situations, but situational optimism is having hope and expecting a good outcome in a specific situation.


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## sails (2 May 2009)

Kincella, I just wonder if you could be doing damage to your body with essentially a starvation diet with no exercise.  At boomer age, basic nutritional requirements are important.  Eg. what about the effect on bone density loss - eg no calcium, no exercise, probably no Vit D from sunlight if you are at your desk most of the time?


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## kincella (2 May 2009)

Sails, its just a quick short time...like a holiday from eating....I am eating small amounts now....
the body is already damaged..starting to see wrinkles...hate this old age thing..the autoimmune system broke down years ago

research coming out now suggests if you exceed the waist measurements you are in a high priority group subject to stroke and heart disease...
hence since I have one big problem, I do not want to compound it....thats the reason I am dieting atm....

otherwise I do not worry about weight etc....but if the clothes do not fit, action is required...
then I came across some articles about the waist....then measured mine and saw it was in excess of the recommended range...
ie for men 40" or 102cm...women 35" or 89cm

I am in the apple shape group...more health risk than the pear shape group...

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/waist-to-hip-ratio/AN01794

 and this with ref to BMI
Further breakdown of the numbers showed that among the women with a BMI of 25 (within the normal range), a 10-centimeter higher waist measurement was associated with a 15 percent higher heart failure rate; women with a BMI of 30 had an 18 percent increased heart failure rate. In men with a BMI of 25, a 10-centimeter higher waist circumference was associated with a 16 percent higher heart failure rate; the rate increased to 18 percent when men's BMI increased to 30.

Furthermore, adds Levitan, among the men, each one-unit increase in BMI was associated with a four percent higher heart failure rate, no matter what the man's waist size. In women, she adds, BMI was only associated with increased heart failure rates among the subjects with the largest waists. Finally, the authors found that the association between BMI and heart-failure events declined with age, suggesting that the younger the person, the greater the impact of weight to heart health.

"This study reinforces the importance of maintaining a healthy weight," says Levitan. "Previous research has looked at various types of heart disease and related health issues, and no matter the particulars of the study, they've all been pretty consistent in determining that excess body weight increases a person's risk of heart disease."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090407174647.htm


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## kincella (2 May 2009)

measured self today..friend asked me...lost 2" off both the waist and the hips..that seemed to take longer than usual...3 weeks since commenced the diet


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## MrBurns (2 May 2009)

Well done kincella  just dont go too far.............you'll make me jealous


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## kincella (5 May 2009)

decided I really need to lose the other 4kg....one small meal per day only and water for the other meals...hoping to lose another 2kg by next Sunday
feeling good otherwise...no temptations...it seems too easy
cheers


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## MrBurns (5 May 2009)

Still struggling only a couple of kilos off, but will get back to the gym this week.


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## kincella (5 May 2009)

Burnsie...have you reduced the volume of food intake ? if you cannot handle the water method...do not eat pies, chips, big mac, etc fatty foods of any kind...but eat small amounts as a meal of other fav foods and that should help...and no snacks between meals....
are you still off the drinks ?
cheers


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## MrBurns (5 May 2009)

kincella said:


> Burnsie...have you reduced the volume of food intake ? if you cannot handle the water method...do not eat pies, chips, big mac, etc fatty foods of any kind...but eat small amounts as a meal of other fav foods and that should help...and no snacks between meals....
> are you still off the drinks ?
> cheers





Cut down grog by 60%, balancing act with food but getting there.


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## Pappon (5 May 2009)

kincella said:


> decided I really need to lose the other 4kg....one small meal per day only and water for the other meals...hoping to lose another 2kg by next Sunday
> feeling good otherwise...no temptations...it seems too easy
> cheers




Look i don't know how good you are at trading Kincella but you obviously have no idea in regards to fat loss that above plan is without trying to insult you one of the stupidest meal plans i've ever seen 1 MEAL A DAY!!!!??? WATER FOR THE OTHER MEALS!!!??? That is no way a long term plan for weight loss


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## kincella (5 May 2009)

Pappon....what has trading got to do with it....
regardless of what you may think...that plan works for me....its quick...short and sweet and we get over it...move onto to something else in life...
I have the attitude...if there is a problem...fix it...simple


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## MrBurns (5 May 2009)

kincella said:


> Pappon....what has trading got to do with it....
> regardless of what you may think...that plan works for me....its quick...short and sweet and we get over it...move onto to something else in life...
> I have the attitude...if there is a problem...fix it...simple




Yeah I have to agree, there's always a better method but the main problem with losing weight is actually finding a way to do it that you can deal with.

it's all what goes in your mouth and you should do as much exercise as you can not just to lose weight but just to feel good.

Anyway you can get yourself to restrict calorie intake while maintaining nutrition is ok in my book.


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## Pappon (5 May 2009)

kincella said:


> Pappon....what has trading got to do with it....
> regardless of what you may think...that plan works for me....its quick...short and sweet and we get over it...move onto to something else in life...
> I have the attitude...if there is a problem...fix it...simple




It won't work lead to permanent weight or fat loss loss it's a very ill thought out strategy


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## Kez180 (5 May 2009)

http://www.nissansilvia.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=280411

I am also a member of a car forum... It has a dedicated fitness section with some VERY good advice... sorry for linking to another board


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## ck13488 (5 May 2009)

Kez180 said:


> http://www.nissansilvia.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=280411
> 
> I am also a member of a car forum... It has a dedicated fitness section with some VERY good advice... sorry for linking to another board




haha im also on ns.com....imagine if kincella or MrBurns posted their diets in there....m&m would have a field day!


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## MrBurns (5 May 2009)

ck13488 said:


> haha im also on ns.com....imagine if kincella or MrBurns posted their diets in there....m&m would have a field day!




Who the hell is m&m, sounds like a drug dealer.

Everyone to his own if you can take weight off good luck to you, if it's not by the book to someone elses strict regime who gives a rats 


Nissan Slivia forum ???????????? drugs for sure.........


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## Pappon (5 May 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Everyone to his own if you can take weight off good luck to you, if it's not by the book to someone elses strict regime who gives a rats
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> That's the problem why people can't take it off and keep it off because of how they try to do it both of you are going the wrong way about it and it won't work is what i was simply pointing out


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## ck13488 (5 May 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Who the hell is m&m, sounds like a drug dealer.
> 
> Everyone to his own if you can take weight off good luck to you, if it's not by the book to someone elses strict regime who gives a rats
> 
> ...




hes actually a very experienced trainer with many years of results to back up his methods. 

he has hundreds of cases to prove that only eating unprocessed foods (things that ran, flew, swam, grew in the ground or on a tree) combined with some high intensity cardio and resistance training can result in mind blowing results 

i understand what your saying about each to their own but the above method works because it is based on how we are built to function. eating one meal and only drinking water will waste away muscle and reduce your metabolism to a crawl. i love my food and prefer a muscular build so i eat lots of good food and excercise...i weigh ~80kg@178cm...(BMI of 25 so technically im overweight) but since i have a decent % of muscle im healthy and have a fast metabolism if i have a bad week of eating, read eat processed crap or not eating enough, i can notice both visually and mentally im worse off

good to see that you can stereotype too. ns=drug dealing car hoons....thats like saying asf=grey haired old fogies with walking sticks


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## MrBurns (5 May 2009)

I remember seeing a post where someone knocked resistance training so there are plenty of different opinions.


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## kincella (5 May 2009)

well I have been the same size for most of my adult life....am not fat....now an old...in fifty's....I dont care about muscle fat or tone....I look good...I sit behind a desk all day....I dont like exercising.....I have health problems that stymie my ability to do anything much.....housework and shopping is about all I can handle....
I do whatever it is that works for me
but thanks for all your suggestions anyway
I probably did double my share of work , with a natural exercise over the years...working and riding horses....so its a been there done that...
cheers


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## gouryella (5 May 2009)

I am a member of Nissan Silvia and I train with m&m... what does that make me?


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## ck13488 (5 May 2009)

gouryella said:


> I am a member of Nissan Silvia and I train with m&m... what does that make me?




If that's in reference to what I said I was only pointing out the steroetyping that occurs when you talk about ns.com

I guess if you train with m&m though you would be strong haha


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## gouryella (5 May 2009)

ck13488 said:


> If that's in reference to what I said I was only pointing out the steroetyping that occurs when you talk about ns.com
> 
> I guess if you train with m&m though you would be strong haha




Nah it's all good, I knew what you were saying


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## kincella (9 May 2009)

almost 4 weeks, not weighed self , but the stomach has shrunk...feels like about one kg to lose and I am there...
the beauty of the small meals is, it helps to reduce the stomach, and you feel satisfied with that small meal every time....
now if the govt increases tax on grog...I may be motivated to reduce my intake...its a sure thing they will hike the tax


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## kincella (10 May 2009)

hmmm, just discovered a fish and chip shop not far from home....had to test it...the flake was heavenly...in Malvern Rd near Safeway....I might have to check out the shops down there now...
we used to have one in Toorak, then developers came in and he was gone...then there was the watergrill down the road....but it  has closed down now...they did shut it down for 18 months while they renovated...and lost most of their regular customers in that time....I used to eat there at least once a week...and took friends monthly.....how to destroy a business.

anyway this one had a nice display of prawns, oysters etc...
it must be 2 years or more since I had fish, and a chip sandwich...it was yum...but made self feel guilty later...fed most of the chips to the birds...no chips next time though...and the dog liked the fish so thats a good sign...since she is a fussy eater
how are you going Burnsie ???
my glasses are falling off now...its so annoying...never thought the weight loss would affect my face..bifocals so affects the reading etc....
toying with the idea of playing tennis again....that will give the body a shock


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## MrBurns (10 May 2009)

kincella said:


> hmmm, just discovered a fish and chip shop not far from home....had to test it...the flake was heavenly...in Malvern Rd near Safeway....I might have to check out the shops down there now...
> we used to have one in Toorak, then developers came in and he was gone...then there was the watergrill down the road....but it  has closed down now...they did shut it down for 18 months while they renovated...and lost most of their regular customers in that time....I used to eat there at least once a week...and took friends monthly.....how to destroy a business.
> 
> anyway this one had a nice display of prawns, oysters etc...
> ...




Not too bad stuck on 2 or 3 k down but getting better at it.

Went to Doncaster Shoppingtown, beautiful fish shop there, crayfish the size on a Volkswagon, beer battered fish, calamari, mmmmm they put it on a plate with salad for you, I resisted though.


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## MrBurns (10 May 2009)

kincella and others to, try Tassal salmon in a packet in the frozen food cabinet, with the words *Twice a Week *on it, various combinations, with dill, pepper chilli etc 3 1/2m in the microwave and it's fantastic, you could have fish as many times a week as you like with this stuff, it's brilliant !


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## kincella (10 May 2009)

ok sounds good... I found fish strips...frozen section...they are heavenly..different with herbs and spices...its real fish...john dory I think...you can also get fish in beer  batter in the F section...these I micro for 2 mins...then in the pan for another 2- 4 mins...plenty of lemon,,spinach on the side...not many cals there..and onion and cheese sauce 
cheers


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## Mr J (10 May 2009)

> Everyone to his own if you can take weight off good luck to you,




The problem is that not all loss of mass is equal, and in many cases we actually want to put on mass. It's already been pointed out that a lot of "weight loss" is counter-productive.


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## MrBurns (10 May 2009)

kincella said:


> ok sounds good... I found fish strips...frozen section...they are heavenly..different with herbs and spices...its real fish...john dory I think...you can also get fish in beer  batter in the F section...these I micro for 2 mins...then in the pan for another 2- 4 mins...plenty of lemon,,spinach on the side...not many cals there..and onion and cheese sauce
> cheers




I usually steer clear of the frozen food section but this stuff is really good, only tried it because they were demonstrating it.


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## MrBurns (10 May 2009)

Mr J said:


> The problem is that not all loss of mass is equal, and in many cases we actually want to put on mass. It's already been pointed out that a lot of "weight loss" is counter-productive.




If you restrict your calorie intake, that will do it, I cant see anything wrong with that simple rule.


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## kincella (10 May 2009)

I have been eating a small serve of tinned tuna daily, I have half the recommended serve..fat content is 0.35g and it has some omega 3 of 2.5
and its brine or water not oil... 
with the spinach and sauce...
I also like prawns for  lunch just a handful and nothing else....but hate safeways...no flavour and not cleaned correctly..even the dog would not touch the last lot
and I believe their lobsters are below the 600g and size...just babies..no flavour...so I need to find a good local fishmonger for my lobsters....

years ago I had access to wholesaler...alaskan king crabs, mud crabs, moreton bay bugs and of course lobsters from King Island, Tassie oysters..they are whoppers...and a Murray Cray.....it was a speciality fish shop..no cooking or chips...just the best stuff flown in direct....
brothers used to fish the Hume Weir regularly fill up our freezers with Red Fin and Yellowbelly...arhhh the good old days
fish is good for everyone
Burnsie...just wonder if you would find it easier to stick to a diet Mon to Fri..and eat what you like at the weekends...but dont pig out....eat your fav food but in smaller quantities....3-4 kg is a good start...so just keep at it...years ago worked out one extra slice of bread a week 100 cals could add 5 kg a year...sobering thought


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## kincella (14 May 2009)

now the watch is slipping down, I need to take a link out...had to re adjust my glasses....its coming off everywhere...I only wanted it off the stomach
how you going Burnsie ?


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## MrBurns (14 May 2009)

I'm not in the zone yet, only small loss 2 or 3 k


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## kincella (16 May 2009)

still not recovered my appetite....then last evening thought I might like some 'lolly gobble bliss bombs'...nah nope not at safeway....they brought them back last year for a short time....
anyone know where I might find them in inner Melb ??? anyone else recall them ?
might check out coles...or find a lolly shop


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## MrBurns (16 May 2009)

kincella said:


> still not recovered my appetite....then last evening thought I might like some 'lolly gobble bliss bombs'...nah nope not at safeway....they brought them back last year for a short time....
> anyone know where I might find them in inner Melb ??? anyone else recall them ?
> might check out coles...or find a lolly shop





There ya go - 

http://www.greataussiefood.com.au/showProduct/LGBB

and

http://www.aussiecornerdeli.co.uk/shop/product.aspx?p=231


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## kincella (16 May 2009)

thank you..well at least I can order online if I cannot find them in a shop
cheers


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## MrBurns (16 May 2009)

kincella said:


> thank you..well at least I can order online if I cannot find them in a shop
> cheers




Make sure they're the original and not some variation.


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## kincella (16 May 2009)

well actually, I found some about the same time in safeways...it was the 'werner the originals' brand and they were nearly as good

today I have decided that I will get that fish...healthier too
cheers


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## MrBurns (16 May 2009)

kincella said:


> well actually, I found some about the same time in safeways...it was the 'werner the originals' brand and they were nearly as good
> 
> today I have decided that I will get that fish...healthier too
> cheers




I've actually gone off the fish a little, make sure you cook it to instructions, mine was frozen in the middle the other day and it's turned me off a bit, it also has a strong smell. I had it last night and it was ok actually, just get one or 2 to see if you like it first.


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## kincella (16 May 2009)

I microwave the frozen fish for a minute to thaw it completely, then reduce the cooking time ...throw them into a pan for half the recommended time..test it while cooking
I bought the fish today from the fish n chip shop...did not taste as nice as last week...
but unbelievable...they had frozen--- Alaskan King Crabs $60 a kg, weigh about 3-4 kg.....obviously have a market there in the right spot in Malvern
we used to buy the claws only...stack of meat in there


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## kincella (23 May 2009)

Burnsie....just at the local newsagents...found this that may interest you...its the Wellbeing mag, with a free Healing foods mag, for 7.95...on the front cover it states you get a free magazine....so I was happy with that...but when I got to the checkout...the girls gave me free...a Womens Weekly Old fashioned Favourites Cookbook....(desserts cakes biscuits and slices) worth about 12.95....all the best old fashioned favs in their

The Healing Foods Mag, has 50 easy recipes, and heaps of articles about the healthiest food for you...aka live longer, look better and supercharge your immune system.....
The Wellbeing has an article headed...3 steps to being a happy single...

I did buy the Womens Weekly...The Ultimate Low FAt cookbook (womens weekly recipes are tripled tested so you know they will work...are usually very simple to make, and if you are closer to being a BB...you will just love the old favourites recipes like your mum used to make- **English style)
The low fat cookbook...shows the amount of fat per recipe (nothing over 3g per 100g of food, and some are much less than that)...has a good variety of all types of ethnic foods...
includes the carbohydrates, protein and fibre per recipe...
Now since I am in a new permanent frame of mind to keep the weight off, I intend making a lot of the recipes in this book...so much taste and variety...it should suit most peoples tastes.....prawns with honey...etc, berries with yoghurt...
PS I like the english type foods, but  the WW Recipe books does recipes for all cultures
cheers
ps needless to say I did not do that work I promised myself today


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## MrBurns (24 May 2009)

Ok thanks I'l look out for that.......


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## SM Junkie (1 June 2009)

I have been following the advice posted earlier in this thread about only eating natural products that have been grown or once breathed.  It made logical sense so I thought I'd give it a try.

So one month has passed and 8kgs are gone.

The interesting thing is that I'm not craving anything (which is a real shock), I don't feel like I'm on a diet, just eating healthy and making better choices.  

I hope this will be a sustainable lifestyle change and only time will tell.


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## kincella (1 June 2009)

well done junkie...sounds too easy....
I think the weight loss is too difficult for some...its mind over matter


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## SM Junkie (1 June 2009)

So that raises some interesting questions, why am I finding it easier this time around?

Do you have to be in the right mind space to loose weight?
Do you have to be doing it for the right reasons?
Why for the first time am I not sabotaging myself?
Why is my mind chatter (that always makes me give in to temptation) not as active?

I need to really think about why is it different.  I know that I am not weighing or measuring food.  I eat when I want, I try and make sure I'm never hungry and always have heaps of fruit and vegetables in the house to snack on. So I trying not to have food constantly on my mind.

It's going to interesting, I should perhaps keep a journal on this.  It may help in the long term.


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## Happy (1 June 2009)

SM Junkie said:


> ... ,  why am I finding it easier this time around?
> 
> ...





Sometimes people who are around you, make it easier to suceed.

Sometimes alarming health check report.


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## ck13488 (1 June 2009)

SM Junkie said:


> So that raises some interesting questions, why am I finding it easier this time around?
> 
> Do you have to be in the right mind space to loose weight?
> Do you have to be doing it for the right reasons?
> ...



the reason you are finding success and not 'sabotaging' yourself is that '*you not on a diet*'...you have changed your lifestlye for the better.

by only eating unprocessed food** you are still able to eat really nice tasting meals that fill you up  by dropping unprocessed foods out of your intake you will have drastically decreased your intake of salt, sugar, artificial preservatives and flavours as well as bad fats. all of which are things your body isnt made to eat in the first place! 

good work on loosing 8kgs  im sure with that phenomianl loss others will have commented on your appearance further boosting your confidence and likelihood of not sabotaging yourself. imagine if you followed the avice touted by some uneducated people and starved yourself for a fortnight and only lost 1-2 kgs. you have no satisfaction from eating, noone will notice your losses and your confidence would go down the drain leading back to old habits. the change you have made is many times better...now you need to spread the advice to others and maybe we wont be the fattest nation anymore



**(for those that missed it only things that have ran/flew/swam, grew in the ground or on a tree)


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## kincella (18 June 2009)

checking in to see how you are going Burnsie ?
whats the alternative to not going to Hawai ?

I might have to put my dog on a diet...she is a little dog...weighed about 4 kg for the past year... now after eating all that KFC for the past 6 months...she weighs 4.6 kg....
so she is going through withdrawel symptons....no KFc for the past 2 weeks...
she is not happy...but she will get over it....
I will let her have it as a treat now and again...maybe once a month...

anyone notice how the Safeway and KFC chooks are raw in the centre ???
that could be a health risk... I do not like raw meat....luckily I dont eat chicken...
I feel like taking it to the media....I have tried talking to the respective managers...who fein surprise...


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## MrBurns (18 June 2009)

kincella said:


> checking in to see how you are going Burnsie ?
> whats the alternative to not going to Hawai ?
> 
> I might have to put my dog on a diet...she is a little dog...weighed about 4 kg for the past year... now after eating all that KFC for the past 6 months...she weighs 4.6 kg....
> ...




Uncooked chicked is dangerous.

My diet is *chk chk boom*, since I've had a stress fracture in the foot I haven't been able to exercise, walk etc, should be ok soon.

No alternative to Hawaii, pretty diappointed but will go in Decemeber when all this flu BS blows over (hopefully)

KFC is addictive it seems, your dog proves it, dont know what they do but there must be heroin in those herbs and spices.

Haven't given up on the diet yet by any means kincella, thanks for asking.


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## kincella (19 June 2009)

Sorry to hear about the foot...broke 3 bones in mine about 18 months ago...(slipped over in the kitchen, think there must have been a greasy spot from the dogs food) took about 2-3 months to recover...

Pleased you are still going to Hawai...nice to have something special to look forward to...

must try to do something about the chicken...
my other gripe is the tiny baby lobsters you see in the supermarkets...
I dont believe they weigh 600 grams....believe the law still stands they must not be caught below that weight .....they are probably imported from a country which does not care if the babies are caught...then wonder why there will be non left one day..

stick to fresh foods and stay away from the manufactured stuff with all the preservatives in it...makes a big difference
cheers


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## MrBurns (19 June 2009)

kincella said:


> Sorry to hear about the foot...broke 3 bones in mine about 18 months ago...(slipped over in the kitchen, think there must have been a greasy spot from the dogs food) took about 2-3 months to recover...
> 
> Pleased you are still going to Hawai...nice to have something special to look forward to...
> 
> ...




Pick up the specials in the supermarket for the dog, great meats just on their use by date that should keep him happy.

Have your Vitamin D levels checked, *seriously do it*, that can lead to weaker bones, osteoarthritis, osteoporosis even MS, just do it, I found out my levels were low, dont know how long it had been like that but doctors dont usually check for that. I found out through a rheumatologist referred by my physio guy, almost by accident.

Cheers


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## kincella (19 June 2009)

Ok...will do...


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## MrBurns (19 June 2009)

kincella said:


> Ok...will do...




Let me know what the result is, I'm on 3000 IU of Vitamin D tabs for the next 3months to bring it back to normal.

I think a LOT of people have this problem and dont know about it.

You can also add depression and obesity to to the list of possible effects as well as bone weaknesses such as what happened to you and me.


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## AustSS (19 June 2009)

DO NOT follow any fad diets, or lemon detox, or replacement meals/shakes > you dont need ANY of them - you can achieve great results with a normal diet and no 'expensive' supplements.

A couple of simple and (logical really) rules to follow:

1. NO carbs after 6pm (ever!).
2. Do NOT fast - eat many small meals a day instead of 2 or 3 big ones.
3. Exercise (even mild forms - such as walking).

It sounds simple, but it takes discipline.  Anybody wanting to lose weight (subject to any medical condition that would preclude these basic principles from working) WILL lose as much weight as they desire (as long as they are determined).

Hope this helps.

Michael


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## kincella (19 June 2009)

Ok ..so I was supposed to be dead about 10 years ago from scleroderma...its an auto immune thingy...but doubt the Docs know enough about it.

have had chronic bronchitits since about 18

now asthma past couple of years....but am finding that is stress related
latest one is dermatitis...comes with the asthma...and even more stress

4 years ago replaced a cup of coffee with coca cola...within 6 months I snapped something in my knee..my now former GP told me to wait a month to see what happens....well it just got worse...took 5 months to see a specialist, then private hospital and recover from surgery....
I think it was the coke that did it for me... I am too young for the 'old peoples' complaints with knees and hips etc

in the meantime I have taken up coke again...it breaks down the phlemg in the throat...some problem with my reflux and some flappy muscle..forgotten what that was...that causes a choking sensation during the night time coughing episodes....oh and its better at breaking up the stuff than the medicines....
but they all come with a plus and a minus...just have to decide which one is the worst...
so how have I fared so far....well am still alive.....but after all this I am not looking forward to old age....

I was quite young when I acquired the scleroderma...at the time it was considered quite rare...and people got it after 65...but it took 10 years of specialists and all the other people and I was still under a mushroom....then one day I was told to see this particular Chinese GP lady doctor...
within 2 minutes she recognised all my symptons...and told me what it was...sent me for tests to confirm it...unbelievable....
both specialists I saw about the scleroderma ( to have a 2nd opinion) and after having heart and lung tests...suggested there was no cure and I had less then 50% chance of survival...within 5 years...but I had already had it for 10 years...
so I have not bothered to go back and see anyone about this
as part of a routine back xray...a Doctor found evidence I had TB.....

apart from all this crap...I am an optimist, generally happy go lucky...and you would never know there was anything wrong with me...
I was hoping to live another 30-40 years...but am not so keen now...with the potential for whats in store for me...

I recently recalled that chinese Docs name...so I will be looking out for her..for the next time...something goes wrong. Hopefully she is still in Melb.
ps heard this morning about 90% people in aged care have dementia
cheers


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## MrBurns (19 June 2009)

Try a lemon drink to break up the mucas and perhaps irrigate the sinus with a spray of water and salt. An easy way is just to cup your hand under your nose in the shower and suck a bit or water up your nose, will clear you right out.
You've been through the mill kincella, I dont particularly want to get old either unless I'm reasonably fit.
I'm not really concerned about death, I've had a good run, just think of the kids that died in the fires, they never had a chance to do anything.

We're lucky, so I'll just take what comes my way from here on.

And remember this........ James Bond once said, 

If you're short of breath cut down on your smoking
If your eyes are bloodshot cut down on your drinking,
Apart from that *live *till you die.


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## kincella (19 June 2009)

Thanks for that Burnsie...I will try it....
regarding death...no interest etc...I have had a  wonderful life....could go tomorrow ...easy....
but I have a few things I need to deal with before I vacate this world...


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## MrBurns (19 June 2009)

kincella said:


> Thanks for that Burnsie...I will try it....
> regarding death...no interest etc...I have had a  wonderful life....could go tomorrow ...easy....
> but I have a few things I need to deal with before I vacate this world...




You're not going anywhere soon


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## kincella (19 June 2009)

whoops  I just found a diet breaker....Coles own....Caramel popcorn....its not bad either...dont like the stink when you open the bag...but otherwise it tastes ok...not as good as the Lolly gobble Bliss bobble....which is caramel popcorn with peanuts


----------



## kincella (19 June 2009)

thought I would share this little piece...since it is related to the thread...
I have gained a bit of extra weight around the girth....
so bending over to put the wee little dog into harness...I groaned a couple of times...not at the dog ...but at myself...that was a couple of months ago...

now, whenever the dog thinks we are going out....she jumps up onto my fav sofa...and sits there waiting for me to put her harness on....so I hardly have to bend at all....
I think the dog is very smart...she thought that one up herself....


----------



## MrBurns (19 June 2009)

kincella said:


> thought I would share this little piece...since it is related to the thread...
> I have gained a bit of extra weight around the girth....
> so bending over to put the wee little dog into harness...I groaned a couple of times...not at the dog ...but at myself...that was a couple of months ago...
> 
> ...




Unconditional love, every mans dream


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## kincella (12 July 2009)

Long a subject of debate””and experiments with everything from yeast to mice””the question of whether a lower calorie diet increases life span while decreasing disease has a new smorgasbord of evidence. 

A 20-year-long rhesus monkey study, released today in Science, found that monkeys that consumed 30 percent less calories than average peers were one third as likely to get a age-related disease and were likely to live longer.  

Of the monkeys in the trial, 80 percent of those on the restricted diet are still alive, whereas just half of those that ate as they pleased are still around. 

The diet also seemed to improve brain function into old age. “The atrophy or loss of brain mass known to occur with aging is significantly attenuated in several regions of the brain,” lead author Richard Weindruch, a professor at the University of Wisconsin-Maidson School of Medicine and Public Health, said in a statement. “That’s a completely new observation.” 

Recent studies have shown that lighter diets can also keep memory wheels spinning into older age.


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## aldebaran3003 (16 July 2009)

kincella said:


> Ok ..so I was supposed to be dead about 10 years ago from scleroderma...its an auto immune thingy...but doubt the Docs know enough about it.
> 
> have had chronic bronchitits since about 18
> 
> ...




My Grandmother had systemic scleroderma from about age 50 as well as Raynaud's, osteoarthritis, insomia and MCD.  She lived to 81 so there is hope for you yet.


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## SM Junkie (15 September 2009)

ck13488 said:


> as of right now start to only eat things that; ran, flew or swam at sometime in their lifetime AND things that grew in the ground or on trees. ALSO only drink water or milk...diet soft drink if you feel the need
> 
> good luck!
> 
> ...




When I read the above quote on this forum, I saw the logic in it.  So I decided to give it a go.  

Yep It's working, I'm now down 15kg and still going

For the first time in my life I think I've finally found something that works for me. I think following some principles to food management rather than a diet seems to be easier to maintain in my circumstances.

I'm no martyr and occassionally still eat bread and the odd bad thing, but I think it's just part of keeping on the right track and stops me from having any full on binges on junk food.

So I publicly thankyou ck13488 for your information, you've changed my life.


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## ck13488 (15 September 2009)

SM Junkie said:


> When I read the above quote on this forum, I saw the logic in it.  So I decided to give it a go.
> 
> Yep It's working, I'm now down 15kg and still going
> 
> ...



 no worries mate, if only everyone who i tell this to would give it a chance instead of the ridiculous fad diets they think they can go on for a week or 2 and be ripped!

it works because thats what we are built to eat! thousands of years of eveolution doesnt agree with the last few decades of so called 'improvements' in food offerings. 

It also works because your still eating real, hearty, tasty meals. would you rather drink lemon water for dinner or get stuck into a solid steak and veg!:

if you havent done so already, get yourself 1.25L pump water bottle (any brand will do), and make sure you drink and refill it twice a day. keeping hydrated also helps keep your metabolim pumping away.

stoked to see ive helped improved somenes life


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## Mofra (15 September 2009)

The Steve Moneghetti diet works for me - eat whatever the hell you want, plenty of it, and exercise your butt off.

Put simply, you can eat what you want if you burn the calories off. Diets are for the lazy.


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## gav (16 September 2009)

Mofra said:


> The Steve Moneghetti diet works for me - eat whatever the hell you want, plenty of it, and exercise your butt off.
> 
> Put simply, you can eat what you want if you burn the calories off. Diets are for the lazy.




Yeah but who wants to look like Steve Moneghetti? 

If I'm workin my butt off, I want to at least look good.


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## SM Junkie (17 September 2009)

Mofra said:


> Put simply, you can eat what you want if you burn the calories off. Diets are for the lazy.




I wouldn't say that, I don't see myself as dieting, I'm just enjoying healthy foods, so it has been a lifestyle change and I'm really happy to keep on this track.

I really wish it was as easy as just exercising.  But with a young family, it is very difficult to find the time to exercise, all I can do is find opportunities in the day to be more active.


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## Mofra (17 September 2009)

SM Junkie said:


> I wouldn't say that, I don't see myself as dieting, I'm just enjoying healthy foods, so it *has been a lifestyle change *and I'm really happy to keep on this track.
> 
> I really wish it was as easy as just exercising.  But with a young family, it is very difficult to find the time to exercise, all I can do is find opportunities in the day to be more active.



Lifestyle changes are almost certainly going to be successful.

If you're having a hard time finding the time to exercise, try the "incidental exercise" method. Takes almost no extra time throughout the day but can burn hundreds of extra calories off.


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## ck13488 (19 September 2009)

SM Junkie said:


> I wouldn't say that, I don't see myself as dieting, I'm just enjoying healthy foods, so it has been a lifestyle change and I'm really happy to keep on this track.
> 
> I really wish it was as easy as just exercising.  But with a young family, it is very difficult to find the time to exercise, all I can do is find opportunities in the day to be more active.




playing with your kids, taking the stairs, parking at the other side of the carpark wont make much difference on their own but they do add up. with your new eating habits (notice how i didnt say diet ) should see you become a better version of your current self! 

have you noticed you have a lot more energy now that you have dropped the majority of processed foods from your intake Sm junkie?


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## overit (19 September 2009)

A man films 375 days of exercise. This is an interesting time lapse video.

http://www.wimp.com/exercisedays/


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## SM Junkie (19 September 2009)

ck13488 said:


> have you noticed you have a lot more energy now that you have dropped the majority of processed foods from your intake Sm junkie?



.

I hadn't really thought too much about it, but yes I do have more energy, I think I may have put this down to carrying less weight. I just feel good, which is why I'm happy to stay eating more natural foods.

I took the kids to McDonalds yesterday to meet with their friends. What I'm very suprised about is that I have no craving for junk food.  In the early days I would steal a couple of their chips, but now I don't even want to do that.

What happens if I keep on this lifestyle change, is there a point that your body just maintains itself at a certain weight? That is ideally what I want.


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## ck13488 (20 September 2009)

SM Junkie said:


> .
> 
> I hadn't really thought too much about it, but yes I do have more energy, I think I may have put this down to carrying less weight. I just feel good, which is why I'm happy to stay eating more natural foods.
> 
> ...



if you keep on going as you are, your loss will eventually plateau out and you will maintiain roughly the same body weight/composition.

when this happens is largely dependant on  genetics (unable to be altered), then what your MBR is, how much you are eating and how much exercise you do. 
When your losses stop from your change in eating habbits you will need to adjust one of the 3 things you have control over. 

if you have any more questions im more then happy to answer!

keep up the good work


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## kincella (11 January 2010)

this is said with tongue in cheek.....
if one is very overweight, they may like to try the Peter Spencer diet...
he lost 40kgs in as many days.....he looks ok....after 50 days...

no hard work slogging it out in a gym.....no need to eat tasteless food, no big sweat jobs, no huge impact on your daily life....

just sip water and vitamin tablets....or whatever Peter is doing....

ps...I am becoming very sceptical of science since the global warming con...
and even more sceptical of the health food, come weight loss industry....
Peter is proof that it can be done....without huge adverse affects

I personally think its good for you , to go for a couple of days without eating...(note I am not suggesting days or weeks on end)

cleans your system out, sheds weight fast, .....do it every couple of months....
to each their own of course.....

just do http://www.news.com.au/national/far...iction/story-e6frfkwi-1225817934483everything in moderation....


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## skyQuake (11 January 2010)

kincella said:


> this is said with tongue in cheek.....
> if one is very overweight, they may like to try the Peter Spencer diet...
> he lost 40kgs in as many days.....he looks ok....after 50 days...
> 
> ...




lol, I would suspect most of that weight loss would be muscle loss. When the body faces famine it'll store fat and consume muscle, not much help esp since muscles are the real cal burners.


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## Happy (11 January 2010)

Best weight loss is roughly 1/4 to 1/2 kilo per week.

Not impressive will not win any competitions, but most sustainable long lasting and healthy if there is such a thing.

Reduction of calories consumed can make wanders too and I am not talking about starving oneself, but we should just feed the person we want to be, the rest will drop off gradually.

Even better not to get ito that position in a first place.
(Sorry to state the obvious )


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## trainspotter (21 October 2015)

How to gain weight in your wallet Oprah Winfrey style ...



> Oprah Winfrey is such a fan of Weight Watchers that she has just bought 10% of the company.
> 
> “I believe in the program so much I decided to invest in the company and partner in its evolution,” the talkshow host turned billionaire businesswoman said on Monday as she announced the deal, which includes personal endorsements and a seat for her on the company’s board.
> 
> Investors appeared to have faith in Winfrey, who has been dubbed “Queen of All Media” and built up a $3bn (£1.9bn) business empire. Shares in Weight Watchers more than doubled after the news broke. The share price spiked from the $6.79 she paid on Friday night to as high as $15.09 on Monday, with shares ending the day up 105% to $13.92. That makes Winfrey a paper profit of $45.6m




http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/oct/19/oprah-winfrey-takes-stake-in-weight-watchers

As of this morning she has now pocketed 120 million from share price increase and the options she holds. Not bad for three days work


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## noirua (20 October 2019)

Jeremy Clarkson's weight loss. 
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/fi...ip/ar-AAIUfH1?MSCC=1571559247&ocid=spartandhp

Right click to read aloud.

Unfortunately his double chin remains and makes him look older than 59. 
*Exercises and Other Natural Ways to Get Rid of Double Chin*
https://www.healthyandnaturalworld.com/lose-double-chin-without-chin-liposuction/


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## noirua (8 July 2021)

Weight loss can go seriously wrong:  
*Karen Anne Carpenter* (March 2, 1950 – February 4, 1983) was an American singer and drummer who, along with her elder brother Richard, was part of the duo the Carpenters. She was praised for her three-octave contralto[2][3] vocal range and drumming abilities. Her struggle and eventual death from anorexia would later raise awareness of eating disorders and body dysmorphia.








						Karen Carpenter - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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## noirua (5 March 2022)

If you looked at this and thought it wasn't normal, you would be right. Janez battled bulimia, and it was pretty public. But he was the former world champion and tried to race anyway during his recovery. His muscles are especially pronounced because of his lean physique. It's fascinating to see what top bodies really look like, on an anatomical level.


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