# Greed (on SBS)



## gfresh (21 October 2008)

If anybody missed this just before, was quite a good watch.. and discussed a few good issues. You can watch it below. 

http://news.sbs.com.au/insight/episode/index/id/48#watchonline

Comments from Peter Schiff, Saul Eslake, GenY, and others on the current crisis in the USA, and also Australia's attitude to greed


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## Agentm (21 October 2008)

great topic, 

ummmm, 

how to put it politely.. its like talking in a library, or farting at the table, but talking about greed with the captains of capitalistism around here its like throwing a lamb into a pack of hungary wolves..

not seen too many self reflecting types around here

totally agree that greed is an interesting topic btw...


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## nunthewiser (21 October 2008)

GREED IS GOOD!

why else we in and out of the markets ...... personally not doing it to make the world a better place......

IM in it to make MY world a better place ....

LONG LIVE CAPATALISM 

amen


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## robots (21 October 2008)

hello,

i think the host should do some research into the "first home buyers grant", the discussion she had with the guy about property development was quite embarrassing for her

thankyou
robots


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## c-unit (21 October 2008)

nunthewiser said:


> GREED IS GOOD!
> 
> why else we in and out of the markets ...... personally not doing it to make the world a better place......
> 
> ...




completely agree.

everyone is greedy in some way. its human nature.


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## jersey10 (21 October 2008)

c-unit said:


> completely agree.
> 
> everyone is greedy in some way. its human nature.




I get a bit f'd with all these so called "gen Yers" who say I don't get it so I'm just going to keep spending on credit.  You don't have to get anything to understand that you can't keep spending on credit and survive financially.  The other thing that pisses me off is they say it with a stupid giggle and laugh as if it is acceptable to be so unintellectual.


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## Dukey (21 October 2008)

c-unit said:


> completely agree.
> 
> everyone is greedy in some way. its human nature.




I agree in as much as greed is a part of human nature ...but *unchecked, unrestricted greed* is not a healthy thing - not for individuals or for society... I reckon it will lead to total anarchy if it goes on too long.... hence after a significant period of unchecked greed - we now see a big rebalance... a period of adjustment where many of the supergreedy get smacked in the face .  trouble is plenty of others will get smacked too  

all IMO 
-D


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## prawn_86 (21 October 2008)

I get annoyed with people who classify others into "Generations". I just cant believe there are enough similar characteristics to make any form of coherent statment about such a large group of people


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## marklar (21 October 2008)

prawn_86 said:


> I get annoyed with people who classify others into "Generations".





Dukey said:


> I agree in as much as greed is a part of human nature ...but *unchecked, unrestricted greed* is not a healthy thing - not for individuals or for society...



The Gen Y's need to go get a copy of the movie Wall Street, sit down and pay attention.

m.
/me ducks!


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## chops_a_must (21 October 2008)

Dukey said:


> I agree in as much as greed is a part of human nature ...but *unchecked, unrestricted greed* is not a healthy thing - not for individuals or for society... I reckon it will lead to total anarchy if it goes on too long.... hence after a significant period of unchecked greed - we now see a big rebalance... a period of adjustment where many of the supergreedy get smacked in the face .  trouble is plenty of others will get smacked too
> 
> all IMO
> -D



As shown by the douche at the start of the program, and as many people do here, completely miss the point with Stone's "greed is good" catchphrase. 

Just shows if someone wants to believe something, and it is supported in some sense, what damage it can do, as movements and behaviours go about unchecked without any reflection.


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## chops_a_must (21 October 2008)

marklar said:


> The Gen Y's need to go get a copy of the movie Wall Street, sit down and pay attention.
> 
> m.
> /me ducks!



That's all well and good if the people watching it don't take it completely the wrong way.


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## Julia (21 October 2008)

Agentm said:


> great topic,
> 
> ummmm,
> 
> ...



Did you actually see the programme?  It was overall very good.

The captains of capitalism, as you put it, e.g. Saul Eslake, but especially Peter Schift, made much sense.

I think it's difficult to define greed.   It's very healthy to have ambition and to want to achieve success.  Without this we'd all drift along on social security.   Perhaps greed is the compulsion to continue acquiring affluence far beyond our needs, purely for the sake of such acquisition.  Pointless, imo, unless you want it for the purposes of philanthropy.

Prawn, you're quite right about the unfortunate tendency to classify any generation into a personality type.  It annoys me immensely about being a baby boomer, so, yes, to similarly classify everyone in a given age group as irresponsible GenY massive spenders is silly.

Given that remark, the young girl on the SBS programme, with her blithe assumption that everything would always support her philosophy of ever extending credit, was just so stupid.  I find it really hard to believe that with all the information out in the market place anyone can be so ignorant.


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## nunthewiser (21 October 2008)

please excuse my ignorance

gen Y = what age group?

baby boomer = what age group?

heard the sayings bandied around but never actually paid much attention to the labels


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## chops_a_must (21 October 2008)

jersey10 said:


> I get a bit f'd with all these so called "gen Yers" who say I don't get it so I'm just going to keep spending on credit.  You don't have to get anything to understand that you can't keep spending on credit and survive financially.  The other thing that pisses me off is they say it with a stupid giggle and laugh as if it is acceptable to be so unintellectual.




I'm gen y, and a diligent saver, and have been lambasted for it here by people much older. So please, do excuse yourself.

But yeah, try dating these types of girls... wowee!

And unfortunately, from what I've noticed, it seems to be something they learn from their parents, from what I can tell. Buying things on credit, on loan etc. has become just second nature to them.


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## Julia (21 October 2008)

Gen. Y:     Born 1980 on

Gen X:      Born 1961 - 1979

Baby Boomers:  Born 1946 - 1960


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## nunthewiser (21 October 2008)

Julia said:


> Gen. Y:     Born 1980 on
> 
> Gen X:      Born 1961 - 1979
> 
> Baby Boomers:  Born 1946 - 1960




ah ha ...........thankyou


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## Wysiwyg (21 October 2008)

Lindsay Tanner was most sensible, the credit card girls acted naively very well, Saul Estlake could have been having a chat over few beers at the pub, the American guests played Punch`n`Judy and Luke the property devoloper played a shady character looking for some greedy friends.


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## chops_a_must (21 October 2008)

Wysiwyg said:


> and Luke the property devoloper was looking for a good greedy sucker.




He looked like an amphetamine junkie to be honest.


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## jersey10 (21 October 2008)

chops_a_must said:


> I'm gen y, and a diligent saver, and have been lambasted for it here by people much older. So please, do excuse yourself.
> 
> But yeah, try dating these types of girls... wowee!
> 
> And unfortunately, from what I've noticed, it seems to be something they learn from their parents, from what I can tell. Buying things on credit, on loan etc. has become just second nature to them.




I have no doubt there are plenty of gen yers who are very diligent savers and are quite financially sensible.  Still get annoyed by the ones who aren't and don't do anything about it but bury their head in the sand.


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## nunthewiser (21 October 2008)

jersey10 said:


> I have no doubt there are plenty of gen yers who are very diligent savers and are quite financially sensible.  Still get annoyed by the ones who aren't and don't do anything about it but bury their head in the sand.




what about the "x"ers and the "boomers" .they just as annoying ?or is it only the young folk?


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## jersey10 (21 October 2008)

nunthewiser said:


> what about the "x"ers and the "boomers" .they just as annoying ?or is it only the young folk?




no them too.


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## chops_a_must (21 October 2008)

jersey10 said:


> I have no doubt there are plenty of gen yers who are very diligent savers and are quite financially sensible.  Still get annoyed by the ones who aren't and don't do anything about it but bury their head in the sand.



Compared to who?

Those that get bailed out by the government and reserve bank for doing exactly the same thing, except being much older, and theoretically should be much wiser?

Financial irresponsibility is not a generational issue, it is a cultural one. If it was a purely generational one limited to those under 30, we wouldn't be in the massive financial hole we are.


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## nunthewiser (21 October 2008)

jersey10 said:


> no them too.




no worries, fair enough, all of there irresponsibility has cost me money as in deposit rate cuts , my tax dollars paying there way and various other ways my dollars bail out there recklessness.

could even go further and say it sheets me to tears actually that i am penalised for there mistakes/lack of responsibility


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## c-unit (21 October 2008)

jersey10 said:


> I get a bit f'd with all these so called "gen Yers" who say I don't get it so I'm just going to keep spending on credit.  You don't have to get anything to understand that you can't keep spending on credit and survive financially.  The other thing that pisses me off is they say it with a stupid giggle and laugh as if it is acceptable to be so unintellectual.




Yep. It annoys me when 'the mob' come out and point the finger at bankers, whereas perhaps they should also be pointing it at their own children and friends who borrow up to their necks in debt and don't seem to understand, or care for, the consequences.


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## baboon (22 October 2008)

nunthewiser said:


> GREED IS GOOD!
> 
> why else we in and out of the markets ...... personally not doing it to make the world a better place......
> 
> ...




YEAH!

It's only money, so make as much as your little hands can get!


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## theasxgorilla (22 October 2008)

What a brilliant segment.  Good on SBS.  I get all homesick seeing some good old fashioned sensible Australian discussion.  And they managed to get Peter Schiff involved...talk about cream on top.  Fantastic stuff.


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## theasxgorilla (22 October 2008)

theasxgorilla said:


> What a brilliant segment.  Good on SBS.  I get all homesick seeing some good old fashioned sensible Australian discussion.  And they managed to get Peter Schiff involved...talk about cream on top.  Fantastic stuff.




I'm with Schiff by the way...lots of faith in Australia for the short to medium term (2-5 years)...buying as many "on sale" Aussie dollars as I can!


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## Agentm (22 October 2008)

Julia said:


> Did you actually see the programme?  It was overall very good.
> 
> The captains of capitalism, as you put it, e.g. Saul Eslake, but especially Peter Schift, made much sense.
> 
> ...





julia..

no i didnt see the show at all, it was merely a remark in jest, trying to get the ball rolling so to speak.. sorry it slipped by you so easily.. 

but if this has to be so cut and dry..

if think greed through, it is such a strong motivational emotion is it not, i think it was an  emotion paramount in the development and evolution and ultimate dominace of the human species.. it has its pros and cons.. 

with regard to naive remarks before about savings not been seen as a sign of greed, hilarious.. lmfao


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## aleckara (22 October 2008)

Being a generation Y person myself I was repulsed by that girl's behaviour. A reflection of not just my generation but of a lot of people.

And another girl there claimed to follow the same example. So many girls I know that are like that "I have a positive philosophy on life; life doesn't throw anything at you that you can't take". I almost laughed at that and thought "where have I heard that before?" - just look at Africa or any other third world country and get some perspective. And they don't understand money or have any understanding about anything other than themselves. It's not greed; it's just that they don't want to know anything that doesn't make them happy. They ignore the realities of the world so that they can live.

These types of people expect the world to give them everything they want - right now. They can't wait and are for a lack of a better word spoiled. Reality eventually bites.


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## gfresh (22 October 2008)

Some good comments there. 

It can sometimes be amusing to see "GenY" comments and absolute philosophies on life, formed after a whole 5 years (or less in the adult world). Much of it seems to be as intellectual as they have read from a celebrity rag, maybe coming from the mouth of such luminaries such as Paris Hilton. It's very much a catch-cry society these days, if you can attach it to a slogan, or read it somewhere, it must be law. In many ways there hasn't been anything to challenge that in recent times either, to make people have second thoughts whether they really are absolute truisms or not. 

Was quite telling that the woman was quite genuinely asking "what is a recession?"  She literally didn't know what the term meant! Was good to see Linsey Tanner privy to this, it's important for the pollies to know that we have got to that stage, where it has been so long, that the younger generation doesn't even know what it means! The idea that one could go straight from one job to another just doesn't exist under a recessionary environment and only barely comprehended this. With almost "full employment" at the moment, it will be a shock to some, especially those that have been getting by taking the easy road. 

In general, I think greed can be considered different things to different people. For me, it's wanting things in life at the expense of others, and at the exclusion of others. For others maybe the definition is simply having more than you really need. It could also be seen as simply wanting want somebody else has, and then when you get it, wanting something even better. This is inherent human behaviour. 

I am sure back to the cavemen, they went and argued over who had the most prettiest rocks, and nicest spear before clubbing the other one to death to get them  You can even see primates act out much the same things. The items have changed, but the concept remains the same.

Greed can be good I think if it helps give you the drive, makes you get up each day, and take on the world with both hands. But some people can take it to extreme, resulting in unhappiness eventually for themselves, and even others. Maybe even loneliness if they have everything in the world, but nobody to share it with.


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## Mofra (22 October 2008)

theasxgorilla said:


> I'm with Schiff by the way...lots of faith in Australia for the short to medium term (2-5 years)...buying as many "on sale" Aussie dollars as I can!



I actually found Schiff the most interesting observer of the lot - perhaps more interesting than the multitude of market commentators who fill our newspapers with boom/bust predictions that change by the day.

I found his prediction about New York becoming the next Detroit quite interesting as well - one fairly high staffer at Macquarie was insistant a few months ago that developing contacts in emerging Asian markets was 10 times more important than having a presence in Wall St. In terms of sheer population and regulated financial markets, the Asian markets trump the yanks by a fair margin. 
Is it too early for a "gee, Keating was right" yet?


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## DJZ (22 October 2008)

Its not Greed that is the Problem, it plays a part, but is not the cause. Ignorance plays a bigger role.

Greed can be a motivational factor. Greed in the sense of wanting more and more and more, and then when you have everything you've every dreamed of, still want more, isn't Good. Thats is what the common Idea of Greed is

Greed in the sense of wanting something and aiming to achieve that, is perfectly fine, but that isn't really greed, Its, like the Mr Tanner said, called Ambition, and there is nothing wrong with that. 

But to constantly want more, over and above what you need to live a comfortable and happy life, at the behest of others, Is true Greed, and that is Wrong.

Ignorance of the realities of how the world works is the bigger problem, and like Peter Schiff said, Greed is counterbalanced by risk, take away the risk and greed runs rampant, that there is the problem. The cause of the problem is Debt, we need ever expanding consumption to balance the every expanding debt, otherwise inflation kills the entire system.

It all comes back to the system we run of debt based fractional reserve banking. That is the root cause, It allows greed to go unchecked by taking away the risk, people think prices will always go up because inflation makes it so, until you reach the point of excessive debt, where the people within the system can no longer afford to repay and the house of cards crashes!

Its the system, based on debt, which promotes greed and ignorance, that is the cause!


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## Macquack (22 October 2008)

Quote by Lindsay Tanner


> One of the legitimate complaints about people (executives) in the United States has been that they are actually able to earn ridiculous amounts of money taking very big risks that may not manifest themselves for a number or years.
> 
> So, one of the questions that will be interesting is to look back at the institutions that are now in considerable distress who might have had their decisions that have lead to that, been taken by somebody several years ago
> who is long gone and taken one hundred million dollars with them.




Interesting question!

I would call it *camouflaged bank r o b b e r y*.


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## xoa (22 October 2008)

Do you think they wanted to invite responsible and thrifty GenYs for the program? No way. It would have made for a pretty boring hour. They want vacuous peroxide blondes who have $25000 credit card debts.

I think it was Peter Schiff who said greed in itself is not the problem, because greed is usually balanced by the fear of losing everything. Greed will continue to run amok now that investors expect bailouts.


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## Ageo (22 October 2008)

Hmm if the monopoly men (central bank owners) are in control of issuing currency and money to most of the world the 1 would assume they have the majority of power???

If thats the case then what would be their motivation? i can only see 1 thing

Greed

The greed for control


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## prawn_86 (22 October 2008)

Ageo said:


> Hmm if the monopoly men (central bank owners) are in control of issuing currency and money to most of the world the 1 would assume they have the majority of power???
> 
> If thats the case then what would be their motivation? i can only see 1 thing
> 
> ...




I would actually say its power and the fear of losing it.

'Absolute power corrupts absolutely'


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## GordonGekko (5 November 2008)

*It Never ceases to AMAZE me*

When are people going to get it???  Huh??  The reason why I went on the show in the first place was to help people understand the absolute importance of GREED.  

I firstly want to thank everyone who posted positive and intelligent comments, and now to address the rest. Greed is very important. If controlled and educated GREED can get us out of this ridiculous financial situation that we have buried ourselves in.  

I mean, who out there as a test, cares what interest rates go to??? 10% 15% 25%??  Does it matter, please respond to this question.  

Further more, and to chops_a_must directly, perhaps directing your time to taking control of a situation, instead of making childish statements about a man whom you have never met, might do you some good.  

Dont be envious of people who are out there working the system to their advantage, support them, and then perhaps with a little luck, you may even learn something....God forbid.


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## Ageo (5 November 2008)

*Re: It Never ceases to AMAZE me*



GordonGekko said:


> When are people going to get it???  Huh??  The reason why I went on the show in the first place was to help people understand the absolute importance of GREED.
> 
> I firstly want to thank everyone who posted positive and intelligent comments, and now to address the rest. Greed is very important. If controlled and educated GREED can get us out of this ridiculous financial situation that we have buried ourselves in.
> 
> ...





hehe are you the property developer that was on the show????


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## Buddy (5 November 2008)

*Re: It Never ceases to AMAZE me*



GordonGekko said:


> When are people going to get it???  Huh??  The reason why I went on the show in the first place was to help people understand the absolute importance of GREED.
> 
> I firstly want to thank everyone who posted positive and intelligent comments, and now to address the rest. Greed is very important. If controlled and educated GREED can get us out of this ridiculous financial situation that we have buried ourselves in.
> 
> ...




Methinks gekko, that you're takin the piss out of us. You can't be serious can you? But if you are, seriarse that is, then no doubt you are immersed in the world of Keynesian ecomonics. Therefore maybe you should study Keynesian economic theory a bit and the importance that interest rates have. Although maybe you're from the Austrian school. Not that there's anything wrong with that.


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## Glen48 (5 November 2008)

Spending money you have yet to earn is like wiping your ass before you sh$ite.


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## chops_a_must (5 November 2008)

*Re: It Never ceases to AMAZE me*



GordonGekko said:


> Further more, and to chops_a_must directly, perhaps directing your time to taking control of a situation, instead of making childish statements about a man whom you have never met, might do you some good.



Lol.

Tracking down insults weeks after they were given smells like drug induced paranoia to me. 

But prey tell the benefits of greed for all those shareholders in ABS, AFG, CNP, HIH et al?


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## GordonGekko (6 November 2008)

*Re: It Never ceases to AMAZE me*



Ageo said:


> hehe are you the property developer that was on the show????





Yes I am.  Any questions>??


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## GordonGekko (6 November 2008)

*Re: It Never ceases to AMAZE me*



chops_a_must said:


> Lol.
> 
> Tracking down insults weeks after they were given smells like drug induced paranoia to me.
> 
> But prey tell the benefits of greed for all those shareholders in ABS, AFG, CNP, HIH et al?




Oh dear.....


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## Ageo (6 November 2008)

*Re: It Never ceases to AMAZE me*



GordonGekko said:


> Yes I am.  Any questions>??




Well i do have 1, 

* Do you believe our current monetary system is right for us?


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## Wysiwyg (6 November 2008)

aleckara said:


> Being a generation Y person myself I was repulsed by that girl's behaviour. A reflection of not just my generation but of a lot of people.
> 
> And another girl there claimed to follow the same example. So many girls I know that are like that "I have a positive philosophy on life; life doesn't throw anything at you that you can't take". I almost laughed at that and thought "where have I heard that before?" - just look at Africa or any other third world country and get some perspective. And they don't understand money or have any understanding about anything other than themselves. It's not greed; it's just that they don't want to know anything that doesn't make them happy. They ignore the realities of the world so that they can live.
> 
> These types of people expect the world to give them everything they want - right now. They can't wait and are for a lack of a better word spoiled. Reality eventually bites.




*Delaying gratification *is the key here as you have noted.

Philosophy should be a compulsory subject at school.

Many people are learning the hard way (don`t know any better) or are just typically stupid ignorant humans.


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## numbercruncher (6 November 2008)

De-regulation has led to extreme capitalism and the near collapse of the entire financial system - the sooner we get monumental change the better .....

Our Government seems incapable of leading the way so maybe we will get to follow other nations.

Meanwhile i feel much more confident about my collection of gold coinage than I do about the savings in my bank account 

Cracks me up so many in this thread openly embrace and encourage greed, each to their own !


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## chops_a_must (7 November 2008)

*Re: It Never ceases to AMAZE me*



GordonGekko said:


> Oh dear.....




Yet, no answer to the question. What a surprise.


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## alwaysLearning (7 November 2008)

Julia said:


> Did you actually see the programme?  It was overall very good.
> 
> The captains of capitalism, as you put it, e.g. Saul Eslake, but especially Peter Schift, made much sense.
> 
> ...




Greed is easy to identify within ourselves. Greed is bad because it hurts. 

There is such a strong aspect of 'grasping'. And grasping is painful.


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## GordonGekko (8 November 2008)

*Re: It Never ceases to AMAZE me*



Ageo said:


> Well i do have 1,
> 
> * Do you believe our current monetary system is right for us?





Yes I do, and I will clarify this for you.  In our system you can go into a bank with only an asset and then leverage that asset to do whatever you want (hopefully something constructive), now if you had some kind of training, mentoring and support, you will see that with only $50,000 and in some cases less, you can make a million in less than one year.  I have some clients that have quadrupled their investment in tangebilities within weeks of them sitting down with me and going through BASIC strategies that give them the extra cash every year to help them along and to get them what they want.  Some of my clients' games are to retire in 5 years, this is too certainly possible. A great money system that needs to be better understood in order to get the best out of it.

Unfortunately Ageo, we have people in the world like Chops whom instead of asking intelligent questions about real issues, they opt for the typical response and put others down, I think its because they think it makes them seem more important, who knows?

Did you know that with our current money system, you can buy land, build a house and use NO MONEY to do it?  Then pay off that property using NO     MONEY???  Now if that isn't right for us, I dont know what is.  Hope this helps. LUKE G


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## chops_a_must (8 November 2008)

*Re: It Never ceases to AMAZE me*



GordonGekko said:


> Unfortunately Ageo, we have people in the world like Chops whom instead of asking intelligent questions about real issues, they opt for the typical response and put others down, I think its because they think it makes them seem more important, who knows?



Right... because people doing their dough is not a real issue.


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## nunthewiser (8 November 2008)

I,m doin it for the free steak knives


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## Macquack (8 November 2008)

*Re: It Never ceases to AMAZE me*



GordonGekko said:


> if you had some kind of training, mentoring and support, you will see that with only $50,000 and in some cases less, you can *make a million in less than one year*. LUKE G




Take your "snake oil" and try to sell it on another forum.



GordonGekko said:


> Did you know that with our current money system, you can buy land, build a house and use *NO MONEY *to do it?  Then pay off that property using *NO MONEY*???  Now if that isn't right for us, I dont know what is.  LUKE G




"Sub-Prime" must be having a second coming.


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## Ageo (8 November 2008)

*Re: It Never ceases to AMAZE me*



GordonGekko said:


> Yes I do, and I will clarify this for you.  In our system you can go into a bank with only an asset and then leverage that asset to do whatever you want (hopefully something constructive), now if you had some kind of training, mentoring and support, you will see that with only $50,000 and in some cases less, you can make a million in less than one year.  I have some clients that have quadrupled their investment in tangebilities within weeks of them sitting down with me and going through BASIC strategies that give them the extra cash every year to help them along and to get them what they want.  Some of my clients' games are to retire in 5 years, this is too certainly possible. A great money system that needs to be better understood in order to get the best out of it.
> 
> Unfortunately Ageo, we have people in the world like Chops whom instead of asking intelligent questions about real issues, they opt for the typical response and put others down, I think its because they think it makes them seem more important, who knows?
> 
> Did you know that with our current money system, you can buy land, build a house and use NO MONEY to do it?  Then pay off that property using NO     MONEY???  Now if that isn't right for us, I dont know what is.  Hope this helps. LUKE G




Interesting, well this leads me to my next question..... If our system is so good and right for us why do we always have Booms and busts? i.e fractional reserve banking might be good for some but eventually it sends the worlds into recessions (how can that be good for the majority?)

P.S im interested to learn more on how you can turn 50,000 into say 500k even.


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## robots (8 November 2008)

hello,

to Gordon gekko:

after the show I highlighted the discussion you had with Jenny earlier in this thread, and have just re-read the transcript,

in the transcript you admit to owning a couple of investment properties and also admit to applying for the FHBG for a new build, 

care to elaborate on the details, we like to deal in the truth here at ASF

thankyou
robots


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## nunthewiser (8 November 2008)

robots said:


> hello,
> 
> to Gordon gekko:
> 
> ...





well done , nothing like a few holes in ones storys to set the stage .

how can this be ? FHOG ? previous property investment? i too am confused mr gekko ..

please can you clear up robots obviously misguided view on the rules of the FHOG


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## numbercruncher (8 November 2008)

Good work Robi !!


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## GordonGekko (8 November 2008)

*Re: It Never ceases to AMAZE me*



chops_a_must said:


> Right... because people doing their dough is not a real issue.




If you bothered to do any research you would know that I dont deal in shares, only tangebilities, IE Property. The reason for this is our current situation. Why would someone buy shares in something that they have NO CONTROL over?

Once you buy the share, how do you make it increase in value? The answer is, you can't. You are now along for the ride, and these poor people, even tho in many of these cases STUPIDITY played the role, they lost because they had no control.

However in property, you always have control.  Paint it, carpet it, render it, revalue it, sell it, hold it, add to it etc.... The real issues that I am talking about chops are the issues of not bagging people who are there trying to assist, but to find a solution to the problems we have. My answer is financial literacy. Simple.


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## nunthewiser (8 November 2008)

please answer robots question mr gekko as i am intrigued with your wisdom


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## GordonGekko (8 November 2008)

*Re: It Never ceases to AMAZE me*



Ageo said:


> Interesting, well this leads me to my next question..... If our system is so good and right for us why do we always have Booms and busts? i.e fractional reserve banking might be good for some but eventually it sends the worlds into recessions (how can that be good for the majority?)
> 
> P.S im interested to learn more on how you can turn 50,000 into say 500k even.




It is a very good observation. Booms and busts...ok. We will always have booms and busts, fortunately it goes with the territory. Like I say;
Bad news is an investors best friend, it let's you buy a slice of any dream for a marked down price.

One of my rules during these times is simple, Be fearful when others are greedy and be greedy when others are fearful.  With this rule you will seldom lose.  If everything went up then everyone would buy, and if everything went down then no one would, so where is the logic everything doing the same???  That is part of the skill. 

But what if you were set up so well, that it didn't matter where the market was, you still made money from it? What I mean by that is, having the correct structures to ride the bare markets, and the balls to run with the bull.

With regards to your question about making 50K into 500K it really isn't hard, you just have to have the correct structure and make your move at the right time.  Email me if you want to know more.


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## GordonGekko (8 November 2008)

nunthewiser said:


> please answer robots question mr gekko as i am intrigued with your wisdom




Now I am going to get to Robots question.

This is really simple, there no need to say that people have "holes" in their stories, yes I own investment properties, and have done for many years, and NO I HAVE NEVER OWNED AN OWNER OCCUPIED DWELLING. What I mean by owner occupied is, somewhere that I build or buy with the intention to live in as my primary residence and somewhere that I own in my name or in my wife's, partner's or de facto's name AFTER 1st July 2000 AD.

Please go to this website to make sure that I am not spinning, or, as you put it, not putting "holes" in my stories, and I will quote from this website for good measure.

http://www.osr.qld.gov.au/fhog/first-home-owner-grant/index.shtml

1. Click on "Frequently asked Questions"
2. Click "Eligibility"
3. Click - "I have owned an investment home previously. Can I still be eligible for the Grant?"

4. Read and enjoy.

It says;

A person is not eligible if they or their spouse (including de facto spouse) have held a relevant interest in any residential property in Australia prior to 1 July 2000.

However, a person may be eligible if they or their spouse (including de facto spouse) have held a relevant interest in residential property in Australia on or after 1 July 2000 and they have not resided in that property.

In other words, the property MUST be INVESTMENT.

Thank you.

Any more questions?


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## GordonGekko (8 November 2008)

robots said:


> hello,
> 
> to Gordon gekko:
> 
> ...




Pls read the reply to nunthewiser.

I love dealing in the truth too, and thanks for checking.


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## GordonGekko (8 November 2008)

*Re: It Never ceases to AMAZE me*



Macquack said:


> Take your "snake oil" and try to sell it on another forum.
> 
> 
> 
> "Sub-Prime" must be having a second coming.




Hi there Macquack,

Just to clarify, I am not selling anything on here, I do ok on my own, but thanks anyway.

And I wasn't talking about sub-prime, I was talking about options or subs, but I'm sure you already knew that. 

And you would probably already know as well, that part of my job is to train and educate brokers that get their naive clients into sub-prime lending because it pays them so well, I work hard every day training bankers and brokers that this is NOT the way to do business, and I just report the rest who either don't listen or are too ignorant to know the difference.

GEKKO.


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## Julia (8 November 2008)

GordonGekko said:


> Now I am going to get to Robots question.
> 
> This is really simple, there no need to say that people have "holes" in their stories, yes I own investment properties, and have done for many years, and NO I HAVE NEVER OWNED AN OWNER OCCUPIED DWELLING. What I mean by owner occupied is, somewhere that I build or buy with the intention to live in as my primary residence and somewhere that I own in my name or in my wife's, partner's or de facto's name AFTER 1st July 2000 AD.
> 
> ...



It seems that you're pretty proud of your activities.   It's a pity that governments when setting up the FHOG did not take into account the petty manipulations of greedy people.

So, while you're congratulating yourself on your cleverness, I'd just suggest you consider not just the legality of your situation, but the morality of what you are doing.

We live in a society where many are living below the poverty line through no fault of their own.  It's the abuse of the tax payer dollar such as you have described here - fully supported by government stupidity - that contributes to this.   

We're presently experiencing quite possibly the worst ever financial meltdown, largely caused by unadulterated greed.  Must be good to know that you're doing your bit towards perpetuating this.


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## nunthewiser (8 November 2008)

GordonGekko said:


> Now I am going to get to Robots question.
> 
> This is really simple, there no need to say that people have "holes" in their stories, yes I own investment properties, and have done for many years, and NO I HAVE NEVER OWNED AN OWNER OCCUPIED DWELLING. What I mean by owner occupied is, somewhere that I build or buy with the intention to live in as my primary residence and somewhere that I own in my name or in my wife's, partner's or de facto's name AFTER 1st July 2000 AD.
> 
> ...




No, thankyou for an informed answer


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## Glen48 (8 November 2008)

How do you define Greed, what is about Greed that makes greedy people loose commonsense and go into a trance thinking this will never end. Do they think Ph%uk you Jack I am all right and I will climb over your dead body and survive and come out the other side a much better person with a thicker wallet?
I remember the 80- when the Japs were on a buying spree in OZ buying anything that could be sold I could not work out why they had all this spare loot and we in OZ were just pluging along now we find out it was all down to greed we sat back and watch the Japs destroy themselves and thinking it was an isolated event pertaining to Japan, and look at us now how could ever country get sucked in?


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## nunthewiser (9 November 2008)

I personally have NO problem whatsoever in milking ANY system i can within the boundaries of the law to make my bread .im not here to give the world a coke , not here to make a mark so i can be viewed in history as a saint ..Iam here to make the world a better place for ME and MINE . if it means i profit from anothers loss so be it . in fact i think talkiing about morals in regards to making money via property or the stock market a little bit hypocritical here actually as many here trade , they take the cash off someone else and sellem the stuff they dont want . 

anyways........... call me evil , call me immoral but hey im happy to take the cash off the next trader in the queue or the person that cant pay his mortgae later down the track ........... 

BUT at end of day those I care about, wont have to scrape along the same path as i had too


thankyou


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## GordonGekko (9 November 2008)

Julia said:


> It seems that you're pretty proud of your activities.   It's a pity that governments when setting up the FHOG did not take into account the petty manipulations of greedy people.
> 
> So, while you're congratulating yourself on your cleverness, I'd just suggest you consider not just the legality of your situation, but the morality of what you are doing.
> 
> ...




Amen Julia, Amen and Amen.

You must forgive me, I'm not familiar to the local custom of this forum, but where I come from, you always Amen after you hear a prayer, because that's what you just posted, a prayer.

Where I come from, that particular prayer is what you call 'the prayer for the dead'. Your attitude and the reasons that you have posted are DEAD.  I didn't kill them, don't blame me, they were dead before I was born.

As far as I am concerned Julia, it's too late for prayers. 

The surest way to go broke is to get an increasing share of a shrinking market. And whether it is a share of an idea, or a share of an opinion or a share of a company - it doesn't matter, you will still go broke.  You see, you post this ridiculous response and it's the same response i've been hearing my whole LIFE. 

People are not broke because of any other reason that they CHOOSE to be where they are.  Below the poverty line you say?  No fault of their own you say? Oh it's not their fault I agree, but they are RESPONSIBLE Julie, they are responsible.

You question my morality?  The last 7 deals that I was involved in I made over $1 million dollars in equity for my clients, that of which I made NOTHING from. Nothing but happiness and pride because some people want to get off their ASS and do something about it. OH and by the way Julie, half of these people HAD NOTHING. They were broke and had nothing but the hunger for change and the humulity to ask for help.

You say that unadulterated greed is to blame for the worst ever financial meltdown.  Pick up a paper and read it Julie, come into reality and 2008, greed wasn't to blame, it was STUPIDITY and Financial Illiteracy. Two things I work my ass off to beat. 

So, without even knowing anything about me, you deem me GREEDY yes??? And why is this, because of my actions or is it because I bother to read things and understand them well enough so as to utilize them in my life and in my business???

It is I that feel pity for people who have thoughts like yours.

GEKKO.


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## robots (9 November 2008)

hello,

yes thankyou for the answer, amazing, well done Gordon Gekko 

keep up the good work and would love to hear more about your adventures

thankyou
robots


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## robots (9 November 2008)

hello,

what are you paying for hurt money Gordon?

thankyou
robots


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## GordonGekko (9 November 2008)

robots said:


> hello,
> 
> what are you paying for hurt money Gordon?
> 
> ...




What do you mean, what am I paying for hurt money.  Usually I negotiate with the vendors for the hurt money to be left in by them so I can do deals with no money down, is this what you mean?

GG


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## robots (9 November 2008)

hello,

mezzanine funding?

here in Melbourne many previous Mezz funders have pulled the dollars from many projects, talking mostly Super Funds (acting as joint venture partners typically) 

and are now being very very selective and very much supporting "affordable" property developments

thankyou
robots


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## GordonGekko (9 November 2008)

robots said:


> hello,
> 
> mezzanine funding?
> 
> ...




Mezz funding I absolutely stay away from, it's very expensive and can be the breaker of a deal.

What is the more cost effective option is going to a vendor and excercising an 'option' or a put and call, or even better, getting an investor to put up the hurt money and then having them agree to a JV or pay them some kind of return on their investment, like 15% per deal or even in some cases 15% per annum on the money borrowed.  This always beats the Mezz rate of around 2-4% per month.

GEKKO


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## Macquack (9 November 2008)

robots said:


> yes thankyou for the answer, *amazing*, well done Gordon Gekko
> 
> robots




Its hardly "amazing".

The bottom line is you only get the First Home Owners Grant *once*. 

If Gordon Gekko has not received it before, he can apply for it now (I think that is fair enough).


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## robots (9 November 2008)

GordonGekko said:


> Mezz funding I absolutely stay away from, it's very expensive and can be the breaker of a deal.
> 
> What is the more cost effective option is going to a vendor and excercising an 'option' or a put and call, or even better, getting an investor to put up the hurt money and then having them agree to a JV or pay them some kind of return on their investment, like 15% per deal or even in some cases 15% per annum on the money borrowed.  This always beats the Mezz rate of around 2-4% per month.
> 
> GEKKO




hello,

yes, typically we talking about money the "bank" wont give you,

its called hurt money, mezz funding etc

the investors putting up the hurt money pretty much have no protection and are at the whim of the operator, 

ah yes but we give you second mortgages, caveat's to protect your investment, bollock's

so a lot of super funds, investment banks (ISPT, C-Bus, MacB etc) go for joint venture projects and hold the "power" typically, 

thankyou
robots


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## Glen48 (9 November 2008)

I  spoke to a  CFD's broker and I said whats the worst thing that can happen he said plainly you can loose all your money, yet when you speak to a R E agent the tell you R E is as safe as houses and doubles every 7 years.
Contracts should have a warning R E prices can go up and also down to below what your initial purchase price was.
Any one who brought a house expecting to make money and got burn is just greedy.


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## robots (9 November 2008)

GordonGekko said:


> Mezz funding I absolutely stay away from, it's very expensive and can be the breaker of a deal.
> 
> What is the more cost effective option is going to a vendor and excercising an 'option' or a put and call, or even better, getting an investor to put up the hurt money and then having them agree to a JV or pay them some kind of return on their investment, like 15% per deal or even in some cases 15% per annum on the money borrowed.  This always beats the Mezz rate of around 2-4% per month.
> 
> GEKKO




hello,

quite often this sort of "money" is sourced from financial planners, church groups, associations, ping pong clubs etc

plenty of deals go through with out a hassle but plenty also get caught out,

thankyou
robots


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## Grinder (9 November 2008)

GordonGekko said:


> Amen Julia, Amen and Amen.
> 
> You must forgive me, I'm not familiar to the local custom of this forum, but where I come from, you always Amen after you hear a prayer, because that's what you just posted, a prayer.
> 
> ...




hmmm... sounds awfully familiar. Im sure I've heard that before.


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## prawn_86 (9 November 2008)

Gordon,

While you are more than welcome to contribute, please tone down the rhetoric and abuse towards other members. Julia was only putting forth an opinion, as you have been doing, so there is no need for the snide remarks.

Thanks

Prawn


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## chops_a_must (9 November 2008)

GordonGekko said:


> If you bothered to do any research you would know that I dont deal in shares, only tangebilities, IE Property. The reason for this is our current situation. Why would someone buy shares in something that they have NO CONTROL over?



If you bothered to think about your argument, the central premise of it is that greed is good.

Now obviously that transcends asset classes, or does it not?

Because all of those examples are the result of greed, as are the umpteen thousand stories of greed leading to the massive bust in the US on property. That is, if you don't think it is relevant in property as well.


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## GordonGekko (9 November 2008)

Grinder said:


> hmmm... sounds awfully familiar. Im sure I've heard that before.




Hahaha I am sure you have....GREAT SPEECH!

I use it quite often in my workshops.

Nice pick up there too.

GEKKO


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## alwaysLearning (11 November 2008)

Well I saw the Gekko person on the SBS show. I think he was kind of 'cut off' by the host before he could fully explain his interpretation of 'greed'.

In any case some things I think about regarding greed.

1. We should not feel guilty about making money or even large amounts of money.

2. What ever large money is earned would require taxes to be paid. The more you earn, the more tax you would be paying (theoretically speaking).

3. Edit: I changed my mind about 'working' the system. I think it is bad to do that. But if it slight and does not harm anyone else then and only then is it acceptable in my opinion.

4. Earning a lot of money means that you have more money to GIVE to others. And I think this is an important thing. If you earn a lot of money you SHOULD give some to charities and help others out. Why not do that?--it would feel really good to help others out who are in need.

5. Greed itself is inherrently BAD. It depends on your INTENTION though. If you want is money and ego, then you're only hurting yourself in the end. Grasping hurts. AND no, people don't CHOOSE to not be wealthy. We are in less control of our lives then most people realise.

I'll expand on point number 5:

What we do in life is dependent on causes and conditions. If the causes and conditions that give rise to wealth are not present or considered then there is very little chance for success. We are shaped by so many things in our lives from when we are children to adults. The world is NOT fair. Suffering is common to all people.

Money is so over-rated anyway. It is garbarge if you have noone to share it with and does not prevent old age, sickness and death. Life sux even if you are in possesion of a lot of money. BUT if you have good relationships with people and can look on the bright side of things then I would guess that life is bearable when it is all said and done. Aging sux.

Sorry for being so negative but yeah, greed is not good.


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