# Women turning into Men?



## wayneL (28 July 2008)

Something I've noticed... our ladies are all becoming butch... pretty, but butch.

In fact I think many ladies these days act more like men than men.

Thoughts?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...eting-men-left-women-touch-feminine-side.html


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## Julia (28 July 2008)

Oh dear.  So do we need to get back into the kitchen, put on our aprons, and lovingly await the return of the lord and master?


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## subaru69 (28 July 2008)

Julia said:


> Oh dear.  So do we need to get back into the kitchen, put on our aprons, and lovingly await the return of the lord and master?




Not at all. 

I simply refer to the quote below, I am in full support of women pursuing careers and earning more than me.

_"If you haven't gotten a blow job from a superior officer, well, you're just letting the best in life pass you by."(Jack Nicholson, A Few Good Men (1992) _


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## wayneL (28 July 2008)

Julia said:


> Oh dear.  So do we need to get back into the kitchen, put on our aprons, and lovingly await the return of the lord and master?



LOL

No, men are better cooks anyway.

But, femininity is a fabulous attribute in a woman. It's a shame to see it disappearing. Femininity doesn't mean the traditional 1950s role in by book, it's just about being more yin than yang, rather than more yang than yin.


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## nioka (28 July 2008)

Julia said:


> Oh dear.  So do we need to get back into the kitchen, put on our aprons, and lovingly await the return of the lord and master?




 Interesting subject. To get out of the kitchen did women have to try to out swear and out drink the men, get road rage in traffic in trying to out do the female driver slur etc. That is the way a percentage appear to act to me. I was brought up to respect a lady. It is hard to respect a lot of female behaviour these days. I don't respect a lot of male behaviour either but why do women have to go to that extreme to prove a point.


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## milothedog (28 July 2008)

Julia,

Really, TIFI. if you are not sure what that means. come into chat during the day...usually there, will be happy to point out who I learnt it from


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## chops_a_must (28 July 2008)

Julia said:


> Oh dear.  So do we need to get back into the kitchen, put on our aprons, and lovingly await the return of the lord and master?




I think a lot of women miss the point with feminism.

It isn't abbout gaining equality through being masculine, a man hater, butch or arrogant.

It's about gaining equality through innate intellectual qualities and processes - on women's terms. Not simply replicating men.

And FWIW, it's not the career women that men find intimidating. It's the arrogance I think. I certainly don't have a problem with dating career women, and none of my male friends do. That's just silly.


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## milothedog (28 July 2008)

Dear chops,

truly, I don't believe you are in a position to assume about what women get from feminism. if you have the presumption that a feminist wants to be a man, you a genuinely missing the point.  if you assume equality will make a woman masculine, there is no point in debating this with you, as you truly do not understand..


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## nioka (28 July 2008)

milothedog said:


> Dear chops,
> 
> truly, I don't believe you are in a position to assume about what women get from feminism. if you have the presumption that a feminist wants to be a man, you a genuinely missing the point.  if you assume equality will make a woman masculine, there is no point in debating this with you, as you truly do not understand..




 Chops can defend himself but I do think you misunderstand what he has said. I read it differently. However I think that the problem with SOME women is that they think they have to ACT like men just to get equality. Believe me they do not have to do that at all. Equality is not "sameness". For instance should iI not be able to be a chairMAN at a meeting because the word offends some women.


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## Wysiwyg (28 July 2008)

Yep same here.I could only give an opinion on feminism based on a males cognitive bias.What I see is they are all different psychologically, yet unified as females.


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## subaru69 (28 July 2008)

The other side to this discussion is 'Men turning into Women.'

When I was in primary school people started talking about SNAG's, now it's Metrosexuals.

In some bizarre way I do believe in gender roles having a place as men and women are naturally better (or worse) at certain things.  In general though if a woman wants to be less feminine or a man less masculine then let them.  Nature will always return to balance, whatever that may be.

For me personally, I don't like seeing people taking up the worst parts of the opposite gender in an attempt to identify.
A woman being violent, uncool.
A man being bitchy, uncool.
A father taking responsibility for his children and the mother going out to work, progressive.


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## wayneL (28 July 2008)

BTW, that cracking sound you heard....


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## springhill (28 July 2008)

subaru69 said:


> The other side to this discussion is 'Men turning into Women.'





Just where i was going to take this discussion when i saw it. The problem isnt women turning into men, its vice versa

Guys wearing pink, wearing makeup, moisturising, using product, wearing f**king scarves, drinking lattes, eating ceasar salads, driving hyundai excels, crying during movies, carrying 'manbags', getting manicures, owning 15 pairs of shoes, wearing cologne that smells like perfume and so on and so on..... WTF?!?!

Enough to make me sick, now excuse me while i go shave my back and scratch my balls


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## chops_a_must (28 July 2008)

milothedog said:


> Dear chops,
> 
> truly, I don't believe you are in a position to assume about what women get from feminism. if you have the presumption that a feminist wants to be a man, you a genuinely missing the point.  if you assume equality will make a woman masculine, there is no point in debating this with you, as you truly do not understand..



WTF?

How did you get to that conclusion?



nioka said:


> Chops can defend himself but I do think you misunderstand what he has said. I read it differently. However I think that the problem with SOME women is that they think they have to ACT like men just to get equality. Believe me they do not have to do that at all. Equality is not "sameness". For instance should iI not be able to be a chairMAN at a meeting because the word offends some women.



Pretty much.

I wasn't saying equality makes women turn into men. I was saying that that is a potential pit fall which wrongly interpreted feminism can lead to. And IMO, is not what feminism is about. Nor is it to the intelligent women I speak to about it.

Feminism is not sleeping your way to the top like a lot of women seem to think, for instance. That would be replicating male behaviour...

And P.S. - it obviously didn't occur to you that excluding people's opinions on the basis of sex, IS discriminatory, and really, quite hypocritical.


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## chops_a_must (28 July 2008)

springhill said:


> Just where i was going to take this discussion when i saw it. The problem isnt women turning into men, its vice versa
> 
> Guys wearing pink, wearing makeup, moisturising, using product, wearing f**king scarves, drinking lattes, eating ceasar salads, driving hyundai excels, crying during movies, carrying 'manbags', getting manicures, owning 15 pairs of shoes, wearing cologne that smells like perfume and so on and so on..... WTF?!?!
> 
> Enough to make me sick, now excuse me while i go shave my back and scratch my balls



Can you hold my beer?

I'm having a piss while I type.


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## wayneL (29 July 2008)

Yeh agree there.

Let's get back to stereotypes ferchrissake!!


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## Julia (29 July 2008)

I'm rather surprised that this is being taken so seriously - I'd thought it was a fairly flippant suggestion, and hence my silly response.

I might not be in a good position to judge, as a baby boomer, but I don't see younger women these days as particularly aggressive or lacking in so called femininity.  I'd actually find it pretty hard to define femininity as a characteristic.   

Might be interesting for some of you blokes to say what does constitute a feminine women, your ideal, if you like.  It seems that - other than Chops - you don't feel too comfortable with a woman who is assertive about getting what she wants!


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## subaru69 (29 July 2008)

subaru69 said:


> _"If you haven't gotten a blow job from a superior officer, well, you're just letting the best in life pass you by."(Jack Nicholson, A Few Good Men (1992) _




C'mon Julia, I love women on top. :


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## wayneL (29 July 2008)

Julia said:


> I'm rather surprised that this is being taken so seriously - I'd thought it was a fairly flippant suggestion, and hence my silly response.
> 
> I might not be in a good position to judge, as a baby boomer, but I don't see younger women these days as particularly aggressive or lacking in so called femininity.  I'd actually find it pretty hard to define femininity as a characteristic.
> 
> Might be interesting for some of you blokes to say what does constitute a feminine women, your ideal, if you like.  It seems that - other than Chops - you don't feel too comfortable with a woman who is assertive about getting what she wants!



There probably are a lot of guys who don't like assertiveness in women. I married one. She is a trainer of sportspeople (equestrian) and you under-perform at your personal peril. 

But she is still feminine, so I don't see an inverse correlation between assertiveness and femininity.


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## GreatPig (29 July 2008)

wayneL said:


> you under-perform at your personal peril



Just what every guy needs: performance anxiety! 

GP


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## Speewha (29 July 2008)

Hello, 

Did I not read a year or so ago that the Y chromosome is disappearing ? 

If it is true there will be no males. 

An androgynous future perhaps ? 

Could explain some of scarf wearing types referred to in a previous post on this thread.

Regards


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## MRC & Co (29 July 2008)

Have some decent hair, put a bit of make-up on, show some poise and speak with manners, that's all I ask.  

I think it's more the fact woman have become lazy these days.  Don't take care of their figure, don't care about acting like a woman and speaking gracefully.  They can have all the career they want and do no housework or cook, wouldn't bother me.  As long as I still look at them and speak to them and see a woman.  

Not, fukc that was a fukcing wan*er bloke wasn't it mate?  Let's go get some freekin food, I'm bloody hungry.


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## Wysiwyg (29 July 2008)

MRC & Co said:


> Have some decent hair, put a bit of make-up on, show some poise and speak with manners, that's all I ask.
> 
> I think it's more the fact woman have become lazy these days.  Don't take care of their figure, don't care about acting like a woman and speaking gracefully.  They can have all the career they want and do no housework or cook, wouldn't bother me.  As long as I still look at them and speak to them and see a woman.
> 
> Not, fukc that was a fukcing wan*er bloke wasn't it mate?  Let's go get some freekin food, I'm bloody hungry.





With modern technology people don`t have to do as much physically anymore.Computers will produce a generation of overweight people IF they don`t get out and do physical exercise daily.The battle to stay physically fit is obviously lost with many Aussies.

Why, because people can still live a comfortable life being overweight and lazy ... in Australia.


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## SM Junkie (29 July 2008)

> Have some decent hair, put a bit of make-up on, show some poise and speak with manners, that's all I ask.
> 
> I think it's more the fact woman have become lazy these days. Don't take care of their figure, don't care about acting like a woman and speaking gracefully.




Sure we will fit it in as soon as we have finished working full time, then collecting the kids from daycare, get home, do the washing and cooking, get the kids into bed.  If we have not dropped from exhaustion perhaps then there is time for exercise, doing the hair and makeup to make the male species happy.

Perhaps it is societies pressures that are changing women, maybe it is a time factor.  We suffer the same pressures as men (and I think it's actually more), but if we respond in the same way (ie. road rage) then we are no longer feminine.

Sorry guys you can't blame the women.


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## Wysiwyg (29 July 2008)

SM Junkie said:


> Sure we will fit it in as soon as we have finished working full time, then collecting the kids from daycare, get home, do the washing and cooking, get the kids into bed.




Are these choices of lifestyle people make?Do men place pressure on women to have kids AND work fulltime?


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## chops_a_must (29 July 2008)

SM Junkie said:


> Perhaps it is societies pressures that are changing women, maybe it is a time factor.  We suffer the same pressures as men (and I think it's actually more), but if we respond in the same way (ie. road rage) then we are no longer feminine.



Or perhaps it's just pressures women didn't realise men had?


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## 2020hindsight (29 July 2008)

In defence of men (self-deluding themselves) that they are the assertive member of the team ...

I'm guessing I'm not the only one who can identify with this bloke.  

http://humor.beecy.net/menwomen/mansong/


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## fordxbt (29 July 2008)

ahahahahahahahaha
this is gonna get me shot


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## Julia (29 July 2008)

SM Junkie said:


> Sure we will fit it in as soon as we have finished working full time, then collecting the kids from daycare, get home, do the washing and cooking, get the kids into bed.  If we have not dropped from exhaustion perhaps then there is time for exercise, doing the hair and makeup to make the male species happy.
> 
> Perhaps it is societies pressures that are changing women, maybe it is a time factor.  We suffer the same pressures as men (and I think it's actually more), but if we respond in the same way (ie. road rage) then we are no longer feminine.
> 
> Sorry guys you can't blame the women.



Oh, what's wrong with you, SM Junkie!   You can do all the above, plus knock off a couple of degrees, look beautiful all the time, be adoring and compliant, can't you??  Gotta keep those blokes happy, now.


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## milothedog (29 July 2008)

SM, Julia, look  the other way, there are those that are "spongeworthy" trully, surely,...let us find another link elsewhere


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## Naked shorts (29 July 2008)

springhill said:


> Just where i was going to take this discussion when i saw it. The problem isnt women turning into men, its vice versa
> 
> Guys wearing pink, wearing makeup, moisturising, using product, wearing f**king scarves, drinking lattes, eating ceasar salads, driving hyundai excels, crying during movies, carrying 'manbags', getting manicures, owning 15 pairs of shoes, wearing cologne that smells like perfume and so on and so on..... WTF?!?!
> 
> Enough to make me sick, now excuse me while i go shave my back and scratch my balls




Hey I love eating ceasar salads, since when was the mighty ceasar saldad a girly thing?

But I will agree with you on some of the other things. Hyundai excels are truely a shame to have to drive. Manicures are ridiculous and I am yet to see the "manbag".


In regards to the rest of the convo, I would not be afraid of a career woman, just as long as she was nice and wasn't arrogant. For some weird reason, girls being girly is super hot. Just as long as they don't act stupid and a conversation about something meaningful can be held.

In fact, I have pretty much described my dream woman, if anyone knows her (and she is in her early twenties), put her onto me.


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## springhill (30 July 2008)

Naked shorts said:


> Hey I love eating ceasar salads, since when was the mighty ceasar saldad a girly thing?
> 
> But I will agree with you on some of the other things. Hyundai excels are truely a shame to have to drive. Manicures are ridiculous and I am yet to see the "manbag".




HAHA i was hoping for a bite on this sooner or later!

Sorry disappoint you Naked sorts, but theres a saying that "salad is for rabbits and gays" LOL. All us beer swilling, ar*e scratching, pot bellied, foul mouthed, politically incorrect, homophobes know that meat is the only source of nourishment suitable for men.

FYI take a trip down to the dingy city of Melbourne and you will see, and i use this term loosely, "men" carrying around these leather things that look suspiciously like handbags


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## xyzedarteerf (30 July 2008)

Dave Chappelle's What Men Want.
Chivalry is dead and women killed it..
I know his brand of comedy is not for everyone, but the spoof on the end of this clip of Mel Gibson's What Women Want was hilarious.


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## disarray (30 July 2008)

Feminism is dedicated to the destruction of family



> Oh, what's wrong with you, SM Junkie! You can do all the above, plus knock off a couple of degrees, look beautiful all the time, be adoring and compliant, can't you?? Gotta keep those blokes happy, now.




what is wrong with you chicks? i don't recall demanding anything like this from any women. maybe women should just loosen up and stop listening to the media who keeps telling them to "have it all", and instead find their own road to happiness. if that involves being a ball breaking senior manager or a stay at home housewife i think you'll find most men are happy for you to be happy. turn the vitriol away from the menfolk who mostly do love and respect you, and turn it towards the media, the feminists, the academics and the rabble rousers who want to see gender tension and unstable families.


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## Julia (30 July 2008)

Disarray, I was partly being facetious but also partly serious.   Most women I know who want their own career also find themselves still taking most of the responsibility on the home front.  Their partners are happy for the woman's career, sure, but only as long as they themselves are not too inconvenienced.

I guess it's pretty difficult for most women - and men - to find the right balance.

A couple of generations ago it was all hugely simpler, wasn't it.  Women just stayed home, had babies, and looked after home and husband.   I suspect a lot of today's high-achieving women would settle for that.


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## chops_a_must (30 July 2008)

Julia said:


> Disarray, I was partly being facetious but also partly serious.   Most women I know who want their own career also find themselves still taking most of the responsibility on the home front.  Their partners are happy for the woman's career, sure, but only as long as they themselves are not too inconvenienced.



Well... why would they do anything on the home front? Especially considering they can't do anything right when they try anyway.

Men now have absolutely no role in society, because all you get taught from a very young age, everything that comes naturally to you as a male, is completely wrong. No wonder young males are so incredibly ****ed up.


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## Prospector (30 July 2008)

disarray said:


> what is wrong with you chicks? i don't recall demanding anything like this from any women. maybe women should just loosen up and stop listening to the media who keeps telling them to "have it all", and instead find their own road to happiness. if that involves being a ball breaking senior manager or a stay at home housewife i think you'll find most men are happy for you to be happy. turn the vitriol away from the menfolk who mostly do love and respect you, and turn it towards the media, the feminists, the academics and the rabble rousers who want to see gender tension and unstable families.




OK, weighing in on this one

The problem is this; generally, it is women who are expected to shoulder a lot of the day to day stuff around the home - viz shopping for groceries, cooking, cleaning, collecting kids, overseeing the homework, preparing lunches etc etc.  Now, you say that men are prepared for their 'womenfolk' to be stay at home mums, but seriously, with a thundering mortgage and increasing bills hanging over most households, really, how many men are truly happy about their wives doing that when the kidlets go off to school? Or even before.  So maybe the woman gets a part time, to full time job.  But the household chores are rarely split 50/50; and then there are comments like yours above "unstable families" implying that the way the woman responds to the issue of 'work/family' is the reason for that.  

OK, gotta dash to work and will work until 7pm but it's ok coz the family's tea is in the fridge waiting to be reheated, and the dishwasher unpacked and the washing machine on.


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## Snakey (30 July 2008)

Prospector said:


> OK, weighing in on this one
> 
> OK, gotta dash to work and will work until 7pm but it's ok coz the family's tea is in the fridge waiting to be reheated, and the dishwasher unpacked and the washing machine on.




Good work Prospector Ill be home at 5 , mess up the kitchen, throw my clothes on the floor before cracking a beer and sitting down to watch TV. Oh and ill be expecting sex before we go to bed too.
nice job keep up the good work


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## 2020hindsight (30 July 2008)

Prospector said:


> but it's ok coz the family's tea is in the fridge waiting to be reheated, and the dishwasher unpacked and the washing machine on.




like,... after a while you twig to how to get the kids to share the work around the house - 
 hide their dinner in the dishwasher for instance


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## Prospector (30 July 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> like,... after a while you twig to how to get the kids to share the work around the house -
> hide their dinner in the dishwasher for instance




Well, I used to hide all my chocolates in the vegetable keeper; that kept one of them from finding them for ages.  Share the housework - I think the problem is that (most) women just can't handle the mess that would create until the laddies 'get it'!  So they tidy up along the way.  Unless of course, such mess involves losing one's footy boots, or car keys, in which case all hell lets loose until they realise they are lying under the unsorted piles of clothes, towels etc.

Are we becoming more like men?  No, but we are becoming more assertive which some men may interpret as being more aggressive.  When I have work appointments I have a black 'suit' and usually a bright coloured shirt and jewellery etc.  I think it is curious though what some women, even the high powered type, think as being appropriate - like sleeveless shirts etc in summer with no jacket.  If men did that, well, they couldnt get away with it.  I figure if I am working in the business world then I dress as a business person, which is either dark pants/skirt and always with a formal jacket.  I leave the tie at home though


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## Happy (30 July 2008)

Julia said:


> I guess it's pretty difficult for most women - and men - to find the right balance.





I see good case for both male and female living separately; meeting briefly for sex and or other old fashioned rituals.

Surrogate pregnancy a must and probably 457 visa migrants could be used for that.

Aha, baby bonus can be split 3 ways.


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## 2020hindsight (30 July 2008)

Prospector said:


> Well, I used to hide all my chocolates in the vegetable keeper; that kept one of them from finding them for ages.
> 
> Are we becoming more like men?  No, but we are becoming more assertive which some men may interpret as being more aggressive.




1. wowo - just did a search of the cupboards used for cooking ingredients - and sure enough, the hidden chocolates that my wife and daughter seem to be sharing between them 

2. thank goodness you're becoming assertive (as a sweeping generalisation) too prospector - imagine if you were heading the direction of Moslem women  ..    Why a women would voluntarily sign up there, I'll never understand    (speaking of cans of worms)


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## 2020hindsight (30 July 2008)

Happy said:


> I see good case for both male and female living separately; meeting briefly for sex and or other old fashioned rituals.



Gotta feeling Alvin Toffler said things like that as well - Future Shock and all that .... 
Man changes cities, changes jobs, changes wives, changes families  
(changes nationalities? - as has already been discussed elsewhere) 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Toffler


> The development Toffler believes may go down as this era's greatest turning point is the *creation of wealth in outer space*. Wealth today, he argues, is created everywhere (globalisation), nowhere (cyberspace), and out there (outer space). Global positioning satellites are key to synchronising precision time and data streams for everything from cellphone calls to ATM withdrawals. They allow Just In Time productivity because of precise tracking. GPS is also becoming central to air-traffic control. And satellites increase agricultural productivity through tracking weather, enabling more accurate forecasts.
> 
> Two major predictions of Toffler's - the paperless office and human cloning - have yet to be realized, not due to technological barriers but to sociological and politico-religious conditions.




:topic I heard talk today (on ABC) of a new currency called the QUID - Quasar Universal Intergallactic Dollar  - for use in outer space (?)


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## bunyip (1 August 2008)

nioka said:


> Interesting subject. To get out of the kitchen did women have to try to out swear and out drink the men, get road rage in traffic in trying to out do the female driver slur etc. That is the way a percentage appear to act to me. I was brought up to respect a lady. It is hard to respect a lot of female behaviour these days. I don't respect a lot of male behaviour either but why do women have to go to that extreme to prove a point.





 Same here......I was brought up to respect females, but it's hard to respect the increasing numbers of women who are abandoning their femininity.
On the other hand, I find it equally difficult to respect the increasing numbers of men these days who are abandoning their masculinity. 
Male cosmetics, male jewellery, male body waxing, pooncy clothes, male beauty treatment, male fragrances, men carrying handbags.....what a joke!

I admire male men and female women. Unfortunately, both are becoming harder to find due to increasing gender confusion among both sexes.


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## Calliope (21 August 2008)

bunyip said:


> Same here......I was brought up to respect females, but it's hard to respect the increasing numbers of women who are abandoning their femininity.
> On the other hand, I find it equally difficult to respect the increasing numbers of men these days who are abandoning their masculinity.
> Male cosmetics, male jewellery, male body waxing, pooncy clothes, male beauty treatment, male fragrances, men carrying handbags.....what a joke!
> 
> I admire male men and female women. Unfortunately, both are becoming harder to find due to increasing gender confusion among both sexes.




In recent years we have heard a lot about "metrosexuals". I didn't have a clue what they were. There is an avenue however we can turn to if we want the lowdown on frauds, hoaxers scam artists, charlatans, posers etc. I am referring of course to South Park. Metrosexuals are exposed in the episode "South Park is Gay"


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## Wysiwyg (21 April 2010)

bunyip said:


> Same here......I was brought up to respect females, but it's hard to respect the increasing numbers of women who are abandoning their femininity.



I noticed on an entertainment show which I viewed for 10 minutes that two women in an act were a diesel fitter and other a boilermaker. 

I have a female relation whom completed an apprenticeship in a physically demanding role. She now has no interest in the trade and I am wondering if she and other women take on roles suited to males because they can and not because they want to. In my opinion she done some young lad with a career desire out of a hard to get apprenticeship. 

I'm for women and men achieving their potential, life goals et cetera but please could employers think about the job requirements, physical needs and  commitment to the work beyond the thought, "because we can".


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## bunyip (21 April 2010)

Julia said:


> Oh dear.  So do we need to get back into the kitchen, put on our aprons, and lovingly await the return of the lord and master?




Not just in the kitchen in your aprons, Julia - we expect you to spend some time in the bedroom in your sexy negligees as well!


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## Wysiwyg (21 April 2010)

Wysiwyg said:


> I noticed on an entertainment show which I viewed for 10 minutes that two women in an act were a diesel fitter and other a boilermaker.




To add; they were their jobs in real life, not the act on t.v.


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## Pivotonian (21 April 2010)

nioka said:


> ... I think that the problem with SOME women is that they think they have to ACT like men just to get equality. Believe me they do not have to do that at all.




This comment is astounding in its ignorance and naivety.

Here's a simple test - think of all the very successful businesswomen you know of, and ask yourself honestly what characteristics most contributed to their success.

Its a man's world out there, created by men and set up to suit men.  That makes it pretty tough if you're a woman.


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## Sunder (21 April 2010)

Talk about resurrecting the thread from the dead...

Has anything changed in the 2 years since the first post? If anything it's getting worse. Violent crime committed by females has risen 30% since then.

Commenting on the original article, even from reading her few paragraphs, I'm doubting the reason her partner left was that she earned more. She comes across as very smug and arrogant. 

Not many men would put up with that, regardless of income levels.


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## nioka (21 April 2010)

There are some advantages for men with the women as tradesPERSONS. A bag of cement used to weigh 40kg. That meant it discriminated against women because they were only allowed to lift a maximum of 20kg. So now a bag of cement weighs 20kg. Not as efficient for the builder as the men now make twice the number of movements handling the same load and I've yet to see a female using bagged cement. The same applies to many other products.

All it proves is that women are different and not equal in the real sense.


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## Prospector (21 April 2010)

Actually I think it is OH&S requirements that no-one, even burly men  should be required to lift more 20k's - not good for anyone.  or dont you burly men get injured?  Hmm, I think workcover might say something different.


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## nioka (21 April 2010)

Prospector said:


> Actually I think it is OH&S requirements that no-one, even burly men  should be required to lift more 20k's - not good for anyone.  or dont you burly men get injured?  Hmm, I think workcover might say something different.




I'n my early days a bag of wheat weighed 180 lbs and was lumped by men. It was reduced to 140lbs for health and safety reasons. But then I cant recall any of the men I had working for me then taking quiche for their lunch either.


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## gooner (21 April 2010)

nioka said:


> There are some advantages for men with the women as tradesPERSONS. A bag of cement used to weigh 40kg. That meant it discriminated against women because they were only allowed to lift a maximum of 20kg. So now a bag of cement weighs 20kg. Not as efficient for the builder as the men now make twice the number of movements handling the same load and I've yet to see a female using bagged cement. The same applies to many other products.
> 
> All it proves is that women are different and not equal in the real sense.




LOL. And men are'nt smart enough to carry two bags to make 40kg.........


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## bunyip (21 April 2010)

nioka said:


> I'n my early days a bag of wheat weighed 180 lbs and was lumped by men. It was reduced to 140lbs for health and safety reasons. But then I cant recall any of the men I had working for me then taking quiche for their lunch either.





Ah yes, the old wheat bags that weighed 180 pounds - how well I remember lumping them when I was just 16 years old. 
And if you put the grain through a hammer mill, it added about another 20 pounds to the weight of a bag of wheat.

That was back in the days when men were men instead of pansies.


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## tech/a (21 April 2010)

I employ some women in the field.
I do have to watch what crews they are in so as to be certain the work (Civil Construction) is within their capacity on a physical level.
They are excellent workers and admit they have a point to prove with the guys.
They are great plant operators.
They are paid the same as the guys.
They are pretty easy on the eye and have no problems with any of the guys---in fact they look after them. Big Brother style.(No not the house).

Onething they do better than the guys is 
Taking care of detail!


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## Wysiwyg (21 April 2010)

Wysiwyg said:


> I have a female relation whom completed an apprenticeship in a physically demanding role. She now has no interest in the trade and I am wondering if she and other women take on roles suited to males because they can and not because they want to. In my opinion she done some young lad with a career desire out of a hard to get apprenticeship.




Another present time example of women stepping into jobs that were always for men.
My dad had to go through internal company stages to get to his career position and this process took more than 10 years to complete including our family having to move to outback Queensland for 3 of those years. Nowadays they advertise publicly for interested persons (no gender bias) to take on the same positions with the same pay after a course for less than a year.

Nearing retirement, he is astonished at how many women over the last few years have stepped into male roles in his line of work and the ease of which it is allowed. 

Is this another Government initiative? Where is the idea getting support and momentum from?


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## Prospector (21 April 2010)

Wysiwyg said:


> Another present time example of women stepping into jobs that were always for men.
> Nearing retirement, he is astonished at how many women over the last few years have stepped into male roles in his line of work and the ease of which it is allowed.
> 
> Is this another Government initiative? Where is the idea getting support and momentum from?




Oh my gosh, that is shocking!  heaven help it that a WOMAN should do a job that was predestined for a man!  What is this world coming to.

Do you guys know how fuddy duddy you all sound?  Thank God for enlightened souls like Tech/A!


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## Wysiwyg (21 April 2010)

Prospector said:


> Oh my gosh, that is shocking!  heaven help it that a WOMAN should do a job that was predestined for a man!  What is this world coming to.
> 
> Do you guys know how fuddy duddy you all sound?  Thank God for enlightened souls like Tech/A!




Well let's hope it doesn't get to the stage where the women want to step out the back to sort out any disagreements.


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## bunyip (21 April 2010)

Prospector said:


> Oh my gosh, that is shocking!  heaven help it that a WOMAN should do a job that was predestined for a man!  What is this world coming to.
> 
> Do you guys know how fuddy duddy you all sound?  Thank God for enlightened souls like Tech/A!




LOL.....Thanks Prospector - that's just the kind of bite we were looking for!


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## Sdajii (21 April 2010)

Prospector said:


> Oh my gosh, that is shocking!  heaven help it that a WOMAN should do a job that was predestined for a man!  What is this world coming to.
> 
> Do you guys know how fuddy duddy you all sound?  Thank God for enlightened souls like Tech/A!




I'm all for equal rights and equal pay for equal work, etc etc, but some tasks are better suited to men and others to women.

Before I started uni I worked in a factory welding, working with sheet metal, assembling goods, etc. Oddly, about 30% of the workers were female. I honestly wouldn't have cared in the slightest, and if there had been no problems I wouldn't have minded the extra diversity in the workplace, but many times every day one of the women would come up to me and ask for help because they were unable to open something, reach something, carry something, etc. So, I would have to stop what I was doing, listen to their question, walk over to their area, do their task for them, walk back to my area and pick up where I left off. Physical size and strength was required, so the women worked about 30% (I'm just estimating) slower than us on average, and probably slowed the men down by around 5-10%. On top of that, if a man in assembly had a component which wasn't welded properly he would simply walk over to the welding gear and weld it up himself, and would have been laughed at if he asked for help, but never once did a woman go anywhere near the welding gear, even though they were perfectly physically capable of it - they simply didn't want to do something 'manly' like welding, so one of us would have to do it for her. Yet come pay day they got as much as us.

At uni there were courses primarily filled by males, and so females were allowed entry with lower VCE (or HSC) scores. This successfully enticed the girls into the courses because they could get into a more prestigious course than they expected to be able... but the result was that they realised they actually struggled to survive the course because they weren't good enough to get in, and even when given extra help, allowances to pass with poorer results, they didn't want to stay because they were in a course they weren't interested in but simply chose due to being able to get into something above their expected level.

On the flip side, I chose to study biological science, which was primarily filled with girls, but naturally there was no special treatment for boys (political correctness doesn't cause us to make mistakes in that direction).

I don't think equality is about being the same. We should look at what we're best at and go with it, rather than trying to make women do what men are good at and vice versa.

It's strange that when men and women take on the characteristics of the opposite gender they tend to take on the negative aspects. Both genders have good and bad qualities. Being obnoxious and vulgar is bad enough for a man, but for a woman it is even worse. Being dainty isn't such a bad thing for a woman, but for a man it is pathetic.

Women have a lot more to lose from feminism than they realise. They are fighting for things which are making their lives much less happy. I'm not talking about careers etc (good luck to women who want a high paying job, you go, girl!), but for example, when they are slutty and vulgar, seeking sex at meat markets (night clubs etc) as men always have, they are destroying a lot of their own gender's power; men freely get the sex they want without having to commit to marriage, men don't really care so much about being unattached, but this upsets women, and they no longer have the option of being the choosy gender - in this scenario, men really don't care.


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## nawshus (21 April 2010)

Venus vs. Mars


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## Prospector (21 April 2010)

Yep Bunyip. Didn't want to disappoint the fans.


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## bunyip (21 April 2010)

Interesting program on TV the other night about gender confusion in Japan. But it wasn't 'women turning into men'. It was men turning into women.

According to the program, almost two thirds of Japanese men are what the Japs call 'grass eaters'. This term describes effeminate men who have no interest in love or sex, are vegetarians, and enthusiastically partake of feminine pursuits such as getting their hair done, having regular beauty treatment, using cosmetics, and wearing the latest fashions. 

Several Japanese women interviewed complained that it was difficult to find a normal man who was interested in love and sex and marriage and kids, and just doing normal man things.
The concern is that this trend away from masculinity is causing a dwindling Japanese population, as increasingly fewer men have any interest in fatherhood.


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## gav (22 April 2010)

I read an article a few days ago about large companies actively seeking women in roles of power.  This is just reverse discrimination.  It should be the best person for the job - regardless of sex, skin colour, religion, etc...  

Persuing women employees for positions of power will just lead to other employees having little respect for that person as they'll think they only got the position due to their sex (regardless of whether they were the best person for the job or not).


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## Old Mate (22 April 2010)

gav said:


> I read an article a few days ago about large companies actively seeking women in roles of power.  This is just reverse discrimination.  It should be the best person for the job - regardless of sex, skin colour, religion, etc...
> 
> Persuing women employees for positions of power will just lead to other employees having little respect for that person as they'll think they only got the position due to their sex (regardless of whether they were the best person for the job or not).




Plus it's not really fair on the women who have worked their way up the ladder to be in those positions. Suddenly there will be less qualified women there next to them getting the same wages without doing the hard work beforehand in order to be there.


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## trainspotter (22 April 2010)

gav said:


> I read an article a few days ago about large companies actively seeking women in roles of power.  This is just reverse discrimination.  It should be the best person for the job - regardless of sex, skin colour, religion, etc...
> 
> Persuing women employees for positions of power will just lead to other employees having little respect for that person as they'll think they only got the position due to their sex (regardless of whether they were the best person for the job or not).




Positive discrimination I think they call this gav? Just like when you see an advert in the employment section stating that "aboriginality is essential" for this particular job. I agree with you - got the qualifications then you get the job regardless of outlier attributes.


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## Prospector (22 April 2010)

trainspotter said:


> I agree with you - got the qualifications then you get the job regardless of outlier attributes.



Well, I have to agree with that, as long as the qualifications required are necessary for the job.


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## Sir Osisofliver (22 April 2010)

springhill said:


> Just where i was going to take this discussion when i saw it. The problem isnt women turning into men, its vice versa
> 
> Guys wearing pink,



 Only when my daughter says "Daddy why aren't you wearing the shirt I boight you for Fathers Day?"


> wearing makeup,



 Only in my early nineties Goth period 







> moisturising,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## jeffreysearch (7 June 2010)

Metrosexuals are the result of men trying to please women so they have an advantage in this day and age. Yes when i go to Melbourne, i do notice the men down there are certainly more `Feminised,, with hairstyling and fashion more pronounced that most women, so it think if women are getting their own way with most things ? why would they change, they just use the Advantage.

as you can see i am from Sydney, so i do notice the difference when i visit Melbourne, so its just an observation not a criticism, just to clarify before i get attacked about it from Melbournites. I think its a Great city by the way.


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## jeffreysearch (7 June 2010)

By the way,, if anyone wants to read something interesting about the Gender culture and problems of men and women and how it has turned into this mess,,, just look up   - The Misandry Bubble , it is a long read, but it really opened my eyes up to the reality of today with trying to find a woman to share your life with.


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## overit (7 June 2010)

jeffreysearch said:


> By the way,, if anyone wants to read something interesting about the Gender culture and problems of men and women and how it has turned into this mess,,, just look up   -* The Misandry Bubble* , it is a long read, but it really opened my eyes up to the reality of today with trying to find a woman to share your life with.




Certainly is an interesting read!

The Futurist: The Misandry Bubble


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## kgee (7 June 2010)

One good thing ....
they might finally learn to develop a sense of humour


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