# Are you Gay? Time to fess up...



## MrBurns (15 May 2009)

Well I'm not but sometimes I wish I were, women just complcate life.

Anyway if you're game you can fess up here.


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## saiter (15 May 2009)

*Re: Are you Gay ? time to fess up....*



MrBurns said:


> Well I'm not but sometimes I wish I were, women just complcate life.




I find that chloroform stops them complaining.


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## MrBurns (15 May 2009)

*Re: Are you Gay ? time to fess up....*

Back on topic, you can post further from your cell.


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## Garpal Gumnut (15 May 2009)

*Re: Are you Gay ? time to fess up....*

I don't think I'm gay

Women always say I have a nice ****.

I don't know if that qualifies.

I've never had a bloke comment about my ****.

gg


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## Aussiest (15 May 2009)

*Re: Are you Gay ? time to fess up....*



saiter said:


> I find that chloroform stops them complaining.




If you have to use chloroform, then there's a problem :

But, yeah. Women are hard work, that's why i like them


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## Garpal Gumnut (15 May 2009)

*Re: Are you Gay ? time to fess up....*



saiter said:


> I find that chloroform stops them complaining.






Aussiest said:


> If you have to use chloroform, then there's a problem :
> 
> But, yeah. Women are hard work, that's why i like them




I find your comments very sexist and demeaning of women.

If you have to use chloroform, you'd probably enjoy male on male sex as well.

Sex is all about fun and dominance, equally between male and female. 


gg


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## MrBurns (15 May 2009)

*Re: Are you Gay ? time to fess up....*

It really boils down to sex

If you are attracted sexually to your own sex you're probably gay.

I'm attracted to my own sex for drinking beer and talking BS but for sex the allure of a woman is all consuming but the longer I live I see that women are stronger than men and men more often than not are left alone and wondering.


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## Aussiest (15 May 2009)

*Re: Are you Gay ? time to fess up....*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> I find your comments very sexist and demeaning of women.




I hope you weren't referring to me! I was saying the same thing. If you have to silence a chick, then there's something wrong, with the guy. I personally like women. They are hard work (complicated and interesting), that's why i like them 

PS. I am a woman too.


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## gav (15 May 2009)

*Re: Are you Gay ? time to fess up....*



MrBurns said:


> I'm attracted to my own sex for drinking beer and talking BS but for sex the allure of a woman is all consuming but the longer I live I see that women are stronger than men and men more often than not are left alone and wondering.




Is this coming from a recent, not so pleasant experience?


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## Aussiest (15 May 2009)

*Re: Are you Gay ? time to fess up....*



MrBurns said:


> the longer I live I see that women are stronger than men and men more often than not are left alone and wondering.




So, was the woman from 'Taming of the Shrew'.


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## MrBurns (15 May 2009)

*Re: Are you Gay ? time to fess up....*



gav said:


> Is this coming from a recent, not so pleasant experience?




I guess you could say that, 25 years of marriage which ended in nothingness.

Here's a truism for free - 

You marry a woman , take over her life , she ends up hating you.

Think about it or watch War of the Roses.


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## Garpal Gumnut (15 May 2009)

*Re: Are you Gay ? time to fess up....*



Aussiest said:


> I hope you weren't referring to me! I was saying the same thing. If you have to silence a chick, then there's something wrong, with the guy. I personally like women. They are hard work (complicated and interesting), that's why i like them
> 
> PS. I am a woman too.






gav said:


> Is this coming from a recent, not so pleasant experience?






Aussiest said:


> So, was the woman from 'Taming of the Shrew'.




Excuse me if I've misinterpreted previous posts.

I have condensed my feelings about women into the following


They are intriguing, beguiling, likely to succeed, and glorious in the sack.



gg


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## MrBurns (15 May 2009)

*Re: Are you Gay ? time to fess up....*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> Excuse me if I've misinterpreted previous posts.
> I have condensed my feelings about women into the following
> They are intriguing, beguiling, likely to succeed, and glorious in the sack.
> gg




The meek shall inherit the earth, well certainly the family home.


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## Garpal Gumnut (15 May 2009)

*Re: Are you Gay ? time to fess up....*



MrBurns said:


> The meek shall inherit the earth, well certainly the family home.




and so they should.

gg


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## weird (15 May 2009)

*Re: Are you Gay ? time to fess up....*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> Sex is all about fun and dominance, equally between male and female.
> 
> 
> gg





Wrong and messed up, perhaps too many posters are on the turps tonight.

Anyone reading this, no one is going to fess up to being gay on a non related forum, outside of their real social networking outlets. I know quite a few gay people, and this thread would border on being a laugh or a joke. 

Sad to hear about bitterness, of unsuccessful relationships, they are unfortunately too common, and I'm unsure why people rush into marriage without fully understanding the commitment.

But hope one can have a successful relationship, now or in the future.

Usually these skills are learned in the first years of a relationship, if not, they probably don't survive (straight or gay).

You need to continually work on it, hopefully both partners are willing to subscribe to it, but its a 2 way street.


There are lots of preparation courses these days, which I think most couples should subscribe to before committing.


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## MrBurns (15 May 2009)

*Re: Are you Gay ? time to fess up....*

Well no ones fessed up yet ????????????


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## weird (15 May 2009)

*Re: Are you Gay ? time to fess up....*

Shoot, yep, I fess up, I am gay, you happy , cause I am gay ... that means happy right ?


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## Garpal Gumnut (16 May 2009)

*Re: Are you Gay ? time to fess up....*



weird said:


> Wrong and messed up, perhaps too many posters are on the turps tonight.
> 
> Anyone reading this, no one is going to fess up to being gay on a non related forum, outside of their real social networking outlets. I know quite a few gay people, and this thread would border on being a laugh or a joke.
> 
> ...




As Pauline would say, Please explain.

Your post sounds like a diatribe from some government departments take on relationships

gg

gg


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## weird (16 May 2009)

*Re: Are you Gay ? time to fess up....*

Sorry mate, just some Aussie bloke that is saying "wot the", no ties to any Government department ... nothing to explain really, perhaps, ask are we living in Australia or somewhere else , or perhaps, rudely if one does not take offense, may I say, lift your game.


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## Mr J (16 May 2009)

*Re: Are you Gay ? time to fess up....*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> I find your comments very sexist and demeaning of women.
> 
> If you have to use chloroform, you'd probably enjoy male on male sex as well.
> 
> ...




He was clearly joking, and your comment about sex is not correct. We're a species of many individuals, and our sexual preferences vary considerably.


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## GumbyLearner (16 May 2009)

*Re: Are you Gay ? time to fess up....*

Camp as a row of tents!
No just kidding. but plenty of affluent knobs I went through undergrad.


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## GumbyLearner (16 May 2009)

*Re: Are you Gay ? time to fess up....*

These guys are great but just not Spandau Ballet!


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## dutchie (16 May 2009)

*Re: Are you Gay ? time to fess up....*

Then you probably caught it off him!


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## MrBurns (16 May 2009)

*Re: Are you Gay ? time to fess up....*

I'm told you must wear a condom if you sleep with a woman over 60 years old or you might catch osteoporosis. (off topic)

I don't think I even know anyone who's gay, is gayness a myth ?

Ellen Degeneres gives me the creeps.


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## kincella (16 May 2009)

*Re: Are you Gay ? time to fess up....*

just wondering what difference between a gay couple and the others, if any ?
each and every relationship needs the same thing, trust, honesty, respect and love....and when it breaks down, there is still a separation of assets, whether its between a man and a woman, two men, or two women....is there any difference ?...all emotionally disabled by the process..

Burnsie, most of us know you are recently divorced....on a scale of 1-10...divorce is up there equivalent to the death of a loved one....so maybe you could do with a little help from a good professional to get you through...if you have not already had some help...

I walked away from an unhealthy relationship over 30 years ago, I never looked back...I could not get out fast enough....
the partner on the other hand, suffered emotionally for several years...until they received some good counselling....and then finally got their life in order and moved on....now happily married again....
A lot of women today are still looking for another partner, some are more discerning than the first time, others still making the same mistake of just needing a man in their life.
Me I love my single life, answer to no-one but myself, freedom to do whatever I like , and whenever...not too many around like myself....but I do have a lot of friends in the same situation (but think secretly, they would prefer to be in a relationship).......
still see others out there looking for a mate, some times I think they are only conditioned to believe everyone has a partner, or should have a partner and may feel uncomfortable around friends who do have partners.....

would you do anything differently next time around ??
oh and expect the divorce rate to soar, there will be a lot of blame games going on with the GFC mess, already heard about cases of middle income families splitting, he lost his job or business, could not handle the stress, and wife and kids move out, or he moves out.....some professional help should be sought in times of crisis.....
ps just hoping this might help, studied behavourial studies and sociology as elective studies many years ago...in fact it was due to those studies that enabled me to make some major changes to my life, take control again, try to divert a divorce, but in the end changed my whole life...for the better.
PS the books studied were not mainstream popular ones in the books shops today...like divorce for dummies etc...gave away my extensive library when I made the big move..

we may have some professionals on this site that may have some better advice for anyone in similar situations.


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## Julia (16 May 2009)

Mr Burns, Kincella makes some good points about recovery following divorce, especially after a long marriage.   A counsellor/psychologist would almost certainly help.

Btw to suggest to gay people that they have any need to 'fess up' is rather insulting and patronising.   Their sexual preference isn't something about which they should feel ashamed.  Just their choice.


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## kincella (16 May 2009)

thanks Julia...he might have to ask around or ask friends for a referral, my partner's first counsellor spent a year giving the partner false hopes of reviving the marriage...the counsellor never spoke to me or requested a meeting to hear my side...I was out of there, had spent several years trying to save the marriage...
truthfully, I should never have married in the first place, it was not on my agenda for my life....just felt coerced into it....the other partner was very dependent on me ....but once married I tried my hardest to make it work....it had the  appearance of a happy family....but I was not happy....
I know it was my fault...and I took full responsibility for the unhappiness I caused to all....
ps we are still friends, but thats all we ever were in the first place, we are not 'good' friends nor 'close' friends....just friends....or friendly towards each other, we do not socialise together, we are worlds apart....
the former partner has qualities I admire in a person, but also things I do not admire...
not dissimilar to a friendly neighbour...we agree about some things....and other things, we agree to disagree about.
cheers


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## Quincy (16 May 2009)

> Re: Are you Gay? Time to fess up...








Ok, I'll confess.  "I love you McBarker"


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## MrBurns (16 May 2009)

Julia said:


> Mr Burns, Kincella makes some good points about recovery following divorce, especially after a long marriage.   A counsellor/psychologist would almost certainly help.




I'm ok, thanks, and kincella I am consulting someone a Mr Martin, Mr Remy Martin always feel good after consulting with him.



> Btw to suggest to gay people that they have any need to 'fess up' is rather insulting and patronising.   Their sexual preference isn't something about which they should feel ashamed.  Just their choice.




Yeah ok Julia point taken and my marriage proposal is hereby withdrawn


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## kincella (16 May 2009)

alcohol can make you feel depressed the next day...or depressed to begin with...hence the drinking....
suggest you find a real counsellor...and give MR Martin the boot
anyone have some good books they could recommend for Burnsie ?
or a good counsellor


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## MrBurns (16 May 2009)

kincella said:


> alcohol can make you feel depressed the next day...or depressed to begin with...hence the drinking....
> suggest you find a real counsellor...and give MR Martin the boot
> anyone have some good books they could recommend for Burnsie ?
> or a good counsellor





Hey I'm fine really, off to Hawaii in July, life's good


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## seasprite (16 May 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Hey I'm fine really, off to Hawaii in July, life's good




I'll fess up mr burns , I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body , don't tell my wife.

Are you sure you are going to Hawaii , I went there and thought I was in Japan. Maui Island was good thou , I must admit , away from all the touristy stuff.


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## Bobby (16 May 2009)

Any self-sexuals out there ? don't know any personally but  there seems to be many pluses :-

They never get a knock back , can start & finnish when ever.
Very safe .
Cost effective ~ booking restaurants for one .
 Few arguments .
Can share the latest self indulgence techniques on line , like the sleeper !
apparently they sit on there hand till it goes numb , you get the picture ?


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## glenn_r (16 May 2009)

Well,

I slept with a lot guys over a 20 odd year period and let me tell you after sleeping with sweaty, crusty guys who have not showered for days on end, mixed in with cordite flavoured farts (Ahh I love the smell of cordite in the morning) this well and truly kept me on the "straight" and narrow.

For those that have had a protected life, cordite is an explosive compound used in charge bags to propel artillery rounds down range.

It also makes you appreciate your sweet smelling and tender skinned wife a hell of a lot more.....


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## sting (16 May 2009)

glenn_r said:


> Well,
> 
> I slept with a lot guys over a 20 odd year period and let me tell you after sleeping with sweaty, crusty guys who have not showered for days on end, mixed in with cordite flavoured farts (Ahh I love the smell of cordite in the morning) this well and truly kept me on the "straight" and narrow.
> 
> ...




Nothing worse than 2 up under a hootchie and ya mate had the curry power with rice an sweet chilli sauce. This particular exercise he wondered why i volunteered to get up every morning an get a brew goin. 

And all this was in JLy at Cunungra and those of you who have been there know it aint pleasant early mornings when the steam is rising from the river round the jump tower and the bearpit is iced over cos its -3.

UBIQUE


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## Mr J (16 May 2009)

glenn_r said:


> It also makes you appreciate your sweet smelling and tender skinned wife a hell of a lot more.....




A gay guy might think the same thing about his partner :.


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## Bobby (16 May 2009)

Geezers why do most use the word *Gay ,* it used to mean a girls name or a happy feeling , the correct terminology is homosexual , many use the words poofter & dyke , also the term pillow bitter is used .

Will a  homosexual  comment please


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## Calliope (16 May 2009)

*Re: Are you Gay ? time to fess up....*



GumbyLearner said:


> Camp as a row of tents!
> No just kidding. but plenty of affluent knobs I went through undergrad.




What's an "affluent knob"?  Is it a phallic thing?


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## Julia (16 May 2009)

MrBurns said:


> and my marriage proposal is hereby withdrawn



Damn!   What an opportunity lost!


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## MrBurns (16 May 2009)

Julia said:


> Damn!   What an opportunity lost!




Yes you just passed up a life of cleaning, cooking and servitude


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## CanOz (16 May 2009)

*Re: Are you Gay ? time to fess up....*



Calliope said:


> What's an "affluent knob"?  Is it a phallic thing?




ROTFLMAO!


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## bellenuit (31 October 2014)

Not a surprise to many, but good to see a person of such high profile open up....

*Tim Cook Speaks Up*

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-10-30/tim-cook-im-proud-to-be-gay


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## tech/a (31 October 2014)

I've been a lesbian all my life.

Love women.


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## darkhorse70 (31 October 2014)

Are you gay if youve had a gay thought, then qs if that made u gay? Haha like charile sheen in 2 & a half men.


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## Tisme (31 October 2014)

bellenuit said:


> Not a surprise to many, but good to see a person of such high profile open up....
> 
> *Tim Cook Speaks Up*
> 
> http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-10-30/tim-cook-im-proud-to-be-gay




I must admit the notion of being "proud" as a hetrosexual never really crosses my mind, let alone broadcasting it to the world, but my brain is probably wired differently in that respect too.


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## Julia (31 October 2014)

bellenuit said:


> Not a surprise to many, but good to see a person of such high profile open up....






Tisme said:


> I must admit the notion of being "proud" as a hetrosexual never really crosses my mind, let alone broadcasting it to the world, but my brain is probably wired differently in that respect too.




I just don't understand this compulsion to discuss one's sexuality with the world.  Really, who cares?  It's no one's business.

Seems that since social media has come to dominate the waking hours of most of the population, it's accompanied by this obsession to share every nuance of mood, the occurrence of events as breathtaking as "just finished the shopping, heading home" right up to what one's sexual preferences are.

There was much to be said for the dignity of a bit of personal reticence and sense of privacy imo.


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## bellenuit (31 October 2014)

Julia said:


> I just don't understand this compulsion to discuss one's sexuality with the world.  Really, who cares?  It's no one's business.




I agree in general Julia, but I think in this case he is also making a statement about some of the archaic laws in the US. For instance, as far as I understand, in his home state of Alabama, you can be legally fired for being gay and can also be legally evicted if you are a tenant. If you read the article, his coming out is more than just making a statement about his own sexuality, but is driven by the belief that because of his high profile position by doing so he can help others who may fear the repercussions they might encounter.


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## Knobby22 (31 October 2014)

Julia said:


> I just don't understand this compulsion to discuss one's sexuality with the world.  Really, who cares?  It's no one's business.
> 
> Seems that since social media has come to dominate the waking hours of most of the population, it's accompanied by this obsession to share every nuance of mood, the occurrence of events as breathtaking as "just finished the shopping, heading home" right up to what one's sexual preferences are.
> 
> There was much to be said for the dignity of a bit of personal reticence and sense of privacy imo.




+1 We used to laugh at the American's for sharing each boring titbit of their lives on national TV  but now we are just like them.


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## SirRumpole (31 October 2014)

I don't see how someone can be "proud" of a condition they are born with.

You can be proud of your achievements, but sexuality is something that people have no control over. 

Like others I don't want to hear the ins and outs of other people's private lives whether they be gay or straight , so whether they "fess up" or not is their concern not mine.


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## pavilion103 (31 October 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> I don't see how someone can be "proud" of a condition they are born with.  You can be proud of your achievements, but sexuality is something that people have no control over.  Like others I don't want to hear the ins and outs of other people's private lives whether they be gay or straight , so whether they "fess up" or not is their concern not mine.




There is actually zero evidence that anyone is born with their sexuality. But when you state it so categorically it may sound convincing to others. Talk about slotting in an assumption and dressing it up as fact!


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## So_Cynical (31 October 2014)

pavilion103 said:


> There is actually zero evidence that anyone is born with their sexuality. But when you state it so categorically it may sound convincing to others. Talk about slotting in an assumption and dressing it up as fact!




Zero evidence?, is this a Christian "gayness can be cured" thing? cos i would of thought that the evidence is over whelming.


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## Julia (31 October 2014)

Fwiw, I find the thread header pretty silly.


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## sydboy007 (31 October 2014)

pavilion103 said:


> There is actually zero evidence that anyone is born with their sexuality. But when you state it so categorically it may sound convincing to others. Talk about slotting in an assumption and dressing it up as fact!




While I was too young to know about sexuality, I remember in early primary school find the general shape of a man much more pleasing than a woman when watching space 1999 and everyone in jump suits.

There's actually plenty of evidence that we are born that way.  I've never had a sexual attraction to women, though had plenty of female friends over the years.


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## sydboy007 (31 October 2014)

Julia said:


> Fwiw, I find the thread header pretty silly.




I actually find it offensive.

Sexuality is a small component of who we are.  There's also the issue of personal choice as to who we share that with.  You only have to look at some of the hateful comments made when sports stars share their sexual preferences eg Michael Sam, Jason Collins, Ian Thorpe.

Google about parental negative reactions and it's easy to see why fessing up is a stupid concept.


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## herzy (1 November 2014)

Julia said:


> Btw to suggest to gay people that they have any need to 'fess up' is rather insulting and patronising.   Their sexual preference isn't something about which they should feel ashamed.  Just their choice.




Agreed, and the point was well made about the title (and acknowledged by MrBurns - but I think many gay people would take offence at the idea that their sexuality is a 'choice'. 




bellenuit said:


> I agree in general Julia, but I think in this case he is also making a statement about some of the archaic laws in the US. For instance, as far as I understand, in his home state of Alabama, you can be legally fired for being gay and can also be legally evicted if you are a tenant. If you read the article, his coming out is more than just making a statement about his own sexuality, but is driven by the belief that because of his high profile position by doing so he can help others who may fear the repercussions they might encounter.




+1 

Although it's fine to be private, bear in mind that as heterosexuals we're the priviliged majority, who aren't subjected to bigotry, prejudice or systematic injustices, and thus can afford to be passive/private. In that context, I think it's very important that homosexuals are open about their sexuality, as it encourages dialogue and spurs societal acceptance and progression. 




SirRumpole said:


> I don't see how someone can be "proud" of a condition they are born with.
> 
> You can be proud of your achievements, but sexuality is something that people have no control over.
> 
> Like others I don't want to hear the ins and outs of other people's private lives whether they be gay or straight , so whether they "fess up" or not is their concern not mine.




Maybe you need to hear about other people being gay. There's a big difference between being gay or straight, and the pressures young boys face growing up in an unaccepting society, etc mean that openly discussing homosexuality performs a vary important function, which openly discussing heterosexuality does not. See above. 

While I agree with you that sexuality isn't something to be inherently proud of in the sense of an accomplishment, I think Mr Cook means proud as an antonym to 'ashamed'.



pavilion103 said:


> There is actually zero evidence that anyone is born with their sexuality. But when you state it so categorically it may sound convincing to others. Talk about slotting in an assumption and dressing it up as fact!




Surely not serious. You think the whole animal kingdom survives purely on conditioning, no instinct? You think the people risking their lives to partake in homosexual relationships in Saudi Arabi, Iran and many African countries do it because they've somehow been taught to be gay?


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## Tink (1 November 2014)

Homosexuals are 'born that way'

Pedophiles are 'born that way'

There is probably more.........

Just saying, since people seem to want to call out their sexuality.


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## pavilion103 (1 November 2014)

They are probably doing it to risk their lives because
1) they BELIEVE they were born that way
2) sexual temptation is powerful. Why does a man or woman risk losing their family over an affair. 

I'm sorry but I need more SCIENTIFIC evidence than "why would they do it and risk their life"

If you have no concrete scientific evidence you are guessing.


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## Julia (1 November 2014)

herzy said:


> Agreed, and the point was well made about the title (and acknowledged by MrBurns - but I think many gay people would take offence at the idea that their sexuality is a 'choice'.



You have misinterpreted my comment (which must have been made some time ago, certainly not in this current exchange. ) What you have quoted me as saying is


> Btw to suggest to gay people that they have any need to 'fess up' is rather insulting and patronising. Their sexual preference isn't something about which they should feel ashamed. Just their choice.



"Just their choice", referred to the *choice to discuss their sexuality, not the orientation itself*.
If I'd thought they had a choice about their sexuality I'd hardly have suggested that it was 'patronising and insulting' to say they should 'fess up'. 



> Although it's fine to be private, bear in mind that as heterosexuals we're the priviliged majority, who aren't subjected to bigotry, prejudice or systematic injustices, and thus can afford to be passive/private. In that context, I think it's very important that homosexuals are open about their sexuality, as it encourages dialogue and spurs societal acceptance and progression.



I don't see significant evidence of bigotry at all.  For a long time now, the variants in human sexuality have been understood and accepted.
Even going back more than twenty years a very close friend of mine died from AIDS.  At no stage was he not loved and accepted for the kind, funny, smart person he was by everyone who knew him.  His sexuality was irrelevant.  However, neither he nor any of his homosexual friends, male and female, ever felt obliged to prattle on about their sex lives any more than did any of us who were heterosexual.



> Maybe you need to hear about other people being gay.



Not sure why you feel the need to tell others how they should feel.


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## drsmith (1 November 2014)

pavilion103 said:


> 2) sexual temptation is powerful.





*CAUTION: For the following vid, start it with the sound level relatively low.*





Some years ago there was once a documentary style video on Youtube the theme of which was where not to put it. The title was along the lines of 101 places not to....... It too included a pool pump incident.


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## explod (1 November 2014)

The very fact that we have this thread at all clearly indicates bigotry.

It has been clearly proven neurologicaly that our sexuality is stamped out.

The discussion is a disgrace.  Move on to more constructive things.  Like how the icon of the cross or the tall church spire make people slaves.  These things we could change.


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## pavilion103 (1 November 2014)

explod said:


> The very fact that we have this thread at all clearly indicates bigotry.  It has been clearly proven neurologicaly that our sexuality is stamped out.  The discussion is a disgrace.  Move on to more constructive things.  Like how the icon of the cross or the tall church spire make people slaves.  These things we could change.




Again passing off opinions as fact.

Certain neurological connections may be wired but this is how all though habits are formed. For example playing a musical instrument. People aren't born with that wiring.

You don't like the conversation leave! You're arrogance is a disgrace. Take it somewhere else.


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## So_Cynical (1 November 2014)

pavilion103 said:


> Again passing off opinions as fact.
> 
> Certain neurological connections may be wired but this is how all though habits are formed.* For example playing a musical instrument. People aren't born with that wiring*.




You do know that Jimi Hendrix never had a guitar lesson in his life, he was completely self taught from a young age, born with the wiring one could say.


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## sydboy007 (1 November 2014)

Tink said:


> Homosexuals are 'born that way'
> 
> Pedophiles are 'born that way'
> 
> ...




Obviously plenty of the clergy are born that way too.

Church hierarchies must have been born lacking a conscious to have allowed them to just shuffle paedophiles around the country to protect the church, not the children.

Why do you continually try to link homosexuality and paedophilia?


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## sydboy007 (1 November 2014)

pavilion103 said:


> Again passing off opinions as fact.
> 
> Certain neurological connections may be wired but this is how all though habits are formed. For example playing a musical instrument. People aren't born with that wiring.
> 
> You don't like the conversation leave! You're arrogance is a disgrace. Take it somewhere else.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srinivasa_Ramanujan

Quite an amazing mathematician, especially when you consider he started out alone.  He worked out the Riemann series, the elliptic integrals, hypergeometric series, the functional equations of the zeta function, and his own theory of divergent series.

Though rare, some people do seem to be born with certain innate skills.


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## herzy (1 November 2014)

Sorry Julia, I misread your comment. I incorrectly interpreted you as subscribing to the bigotry that others have displayed. 



Julia said:


> Not sure why you feel the need to tell others how they should feel.




i didn't tell anybody how to feel. I do however (unashamedly) feel the need to call people on their ignorance or bigotry when it directly harms others and/or perpetuates misinformation. 

I think that bigotry and prejudice still exists towards homosexuals, and I think that people being open about their sexuality is one way to help to overcome that. It's fine if we disagree about that final aspect though. 



explod said:


> The very fact that we have this thread at all clearly indicates bigotry.
> 
> It has been clearly proven neurologicaly that our sexuality is stamped out.
> 
> The discussion is a disgrace.  Move on to more constructive things.  Like how the icon of the cross or the tall church spire make people slaves.  These things we could change.




+ 1



pavilion103 said:


> Again passing off opinions as fact.
> 
> Certain neurological connections may be wired but this is how all though habits are formed. For example playing a musical instrument. People aren't born with that wiring.
> 
> You don't like the conversation leave! You're arrogance is a disgrace. Take it somewhere else.




Pavillion you continue to show your ignorance and bigotry. Predispositions for musical ability and tune/tone deafness have been clearly demonstrated to be genetic (as has language ability, maths, IQ... ). 

In any case, does it matter? Does the difference between genetic predisposition and societal conditioning really merit treating people differently?


----------



## luutzu (2 November 2014)

sydboy007 said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srinivasa_Ramanujan
> 
> Quite an amazing mathematician, especially when you consider he started out alone.  He worked out the Riemann series, the elliptic integrals, hypergeometric series, the functional equations of the zeta function, and his own theory of divergent series.
> 
> Though rare, some people do seem to be born with certain innate skills.




Given all the bigotry and discrimination against homosexuality in just about all modern society, it'd be a pretty bad choice for people to choose to be gay. I mean, your parents might not be happy hearing that you won't be able to pass on their genes; the school kids are not very kind; the Church and other religions... employment opportunities...

There's a body of studies in biology and genetics that said homosexuality plays an important role in the survival of the species, such as the natural birth control, homosexuals not having kids mean using less resources, and them adopting mean helping etc. etc.

But regardless of what "causes" homosexuality, it's between two consenting adults and so what's the difference? Nothing else to worry about?


----------



## Tink (2 November 2014)

I didn't connect the two Syd, though Pav makes a good observation about human failings and the slaves to sex - sex being powerful.


----------



## pavilion103 (2 November 2014)

Herzy I have gay friends and I love them. One actually told me that when he met me he was hesitant because I am a Christian. After getting to know me he said if he could live any sought of religious faith out he would want it to be like the way I love mine. He felt love.

He knows that I don't agree with homosexuality and he obviously doesn't agree with parts of Christianity. We are friends. Our interactions are based on love and respect. No bigotry on either side, just differing opinions.

There is also a second person that I know and I have the exact same situation with him.

On a forum it is difficult to understand someone. To slam me as a bigot and ignorant is really silly when I am able to live out the above.

People on here seem to think that unless you agree with what people are doing then you're a bigot. NO. If you disagree but continue to love them it is not. If you treat them like crap because you disagree then yes it is.


----------



## pavilion103 (2 November 2014)

On another note, most men have a predisposition towards wanting to have sex with as many women as possible. 
However when they get married, it doesn't matter if they have that predisposition, they are to remain faithful to their wife.

Some have a predisposition towards alcohol. Does that mean they should get drink every night?

Humans seem to have a predisposition towards general selfishness. Exaggerating, lying, self gain. Does that mean we should just follow the path of least resistance?

Predisposition doesn't determine morality or how we should act out. 

But like I said previously, a forum is not the best place to be able to communicate views about this sort of stuff accurately. Especially when every second post is a keyboard warrior calling someone a bigot. In light of what my gay friends said, how silly. I'll take their opinion over yours.


----------



## SirRumpole (2 November 2014)

pavilion103 said:


> On another note, most men have a predisposition towards wanting to have sex with as many women as possible.




Have you told your wife of this fantasy of yours ?





> Humans seem to have a predisposition towards general selfishness. Exaggerating, lying, self gain. Does that mean we should just follow the path of least resistance?




Some do, probably promoted by the media and advertising. I would say MOST people have some compassion towards those less well off than themselves. Societal pressures play a large part in the way people act. I don't think that there is a "predisposition" towards any human behaviour, but sexuality is not a "behaviour", it's an attribute of a particular person, like their gender is.



> But like I said previously, a forum is not the best place to be able to communicate views about this sort of stuff accurately. Especially when every second post is a keyboard warrior calling someone a bigot. In light of what my gay friends said, how silly. I'll take their opinion over yours.




So are your gay friends saying that they could be heterosexuals if they wanted to be ? If so, why did they choose to be gay ?


----------



## Julia (2 November 2014)

herzy said:


> Sorry Julia, I misread your comment. I incorrectly interpreted you as subscribing to the bigotry that others have displayed.



It's fine, herzy.  I just wanted to be clear that I held no illusions about sexual orientation being a choice.
It's easy enough to misinterpret the typed word.



> i didn't tell anybody how to feel. I do however (unashamedly) feel the need to call people on their ignorance or bigotry when it directly harms others and/or perpetuates misinformation.



I understand your point, but (if I now recall correctly) you suggested that Rumpole 'needed to hear about other people being gay'.

He had said


> You can be proud of your achievements, but sexuality is something that people have no control over.
> 
> Like others I don't want to hear the ins and outs of other people's private lives whether they be gay or straight , so whether they "fess up" or not is their concern not mine.




so, given his clear acknowledgement that sexuality is not a choice, your contradicting his preference not to want to hear announcements about individuals' sexuality, seemed rather patronising.  He's surely as much entitled to his view as any of us.

I don't agree with Pav on much here, but do somewhat on the casual use of the word 'bigotry'.  It's an ugly word for ugly behaviour.   If people do not want to be interested in someone announcing their sexual orientation, that's their right without their necessarily being labelled either ignorant or bigoted.


----------



## Tisme (2 November 2014)

If you subscribe to Bill Clinton's viewpoint, there is only one sexual activity that can lay claim to being sex and that requires a vagina and a penis, the rest is just skirting around the edges......Cuban anyone?


----------



## drsmith (2 November 2014)

Our feline friends wouldn't be.....



> The female utters a loud yowl as the male pulls out of her because a male cat's penis has a band of about 120–150 backwards-pointing penile spines, which are about 1 mm long;[162] upon withdrawal of the penis, the spines rake the walls of the female's vagina, which is a trigger for ovulation. This act also occurs to clear the vagina of other sperm in the context of a second (or more) mating, thus giving the later males a larger chance of conception.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat#Reproduction


----------



## Tisme (3 November 2014)

The linked article is from the Telegraph in the UK so it must be true. Apparently there isn't any firm evidence, but that doesn't matter. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...ly-partly-due-to-gay-gene-research-finds.html

Of course Nature herself discriminates against homosexual behaviours by not building us males with a cloaca valve.


----------



## Value Collector (7 November 2014)

pavilion103 said:


> There is actually zero evidence that anyone is born with their sexuality.




Firstly, that's not true, 

But more importantly, who cares?

Even if it was proven that being gay was a choice, what right would you have to tell people they can't do it?


----------



## sydboy007 (8 November 2014)




----------



## sydboy007 (8 November 2014)

Tink said:


> I didn't connect the two Syd, though Pav makes a good observation about human failings and the slaves to sex - sex being powerful.




Seriously, this is what you said

_Homosexuals are 'born that way'

Pedophiles are 'born that way'

There is probably more.........

Just saying, since people seem to want to call out their sexuality._

So as an honest Christian who wouldn't lie or in any way dissemble the truth, you claim you had no intent in any way that what you said could in any way be construed to try and link homosexuality and paedophilia?  There was nothing else you could have used to try and make your point except paedophilia and homosexuality?


----------



## explod (8 November 2014)

When working on pedophilia problems  in my career, the clinical pshcholigists in our team identified that vulnerable young people were cultured/nutured so to speak by peodiphiles. Infected was another term, as in being introduced to a drug.  Both gay and hetersexual were found to be equally vulnerable.

The neurological state in which the mind is pre-wired (so to speak) from conception is very different to those things that develop from conscious choice introduced from experience.

Like drug taking, this has very destructive consequences on the young.

To sit pediophilia alongside natural (ie.being born that way ) sexual orientation is wrong, in my view.


----------



## Tink (8 November 2014)

Explod, I was always told that pedophiles were born that way and couldn't be rehabilitated.

Syd, my post had a hidden meaning pointing to the problems we are having in society now, with sex trafficking, child pornography etc, which didn't just include homosexuals.

I am surprised you are actually putting a magnifying glass on my post, Syd, when I never do that with the posts you put in the religion thread.


----------



## explod (8 November 2014)

Tink said:


> Explod, I was always told that pedophiles were born that way and couldn't be rehabilitated.
> 
> Syd, my post had a hidden meaning pointing to the problems we are having in society now, with sex trafficking, child pornography etc, which didn't just include homosexuals.
> 
> I am surprised you are actually putting a magnifying glass on my post, Syd, when I never do that with the posts you put in the religion thread.




Not my intention Tink.  Merely making my view clear that there is a big difference between perception and the clinical facts.

Your concerns and views are important in allucidating confusion.


----------



## SirRumpole (8 November 2014)

Tink said:


> Explod, I was always told that pedophiles were born that way and couldn't be rehabilitated.
> 
> .




Rehabilitation didn't seem to work for Denis Ferguson. 15+ years in gaol and he refused to take part in any rehabilitation programs. As soon as he got out he was up to his old tricks. As far as I know there are only two ways to stop people like him, and one has now worked.


----------



## Tink (8 November 2014)

Fair enough, explod.

A discussion was had in this forum about it as well, regarding pedophilia, but I will leave it at that....


----------



## Tink (9 November 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> Rehabilitation didn't seem to work for Denis Ferguson. 15+ years in gaol and he refused to take part in any rehabilitation programs. As soon as he got out he was up to his old tricks. As far as I know there are only two ways to stop people like him, and one has now worked.




Agree, Rumpole.

Best I stay out of this thread or I get howled down by the PC mob.


----------



## shouldaindex (8 December 2014)

What's with the culture of hunting homosexuals to out themselves.  Bit scared that there's a bit of latent in someone?


----------



## Craton (10 December 2014)

shouldaindex said:


> What's with the culture of hunting homosexuals to out themselves.  Bit scared that there's a bit of latent in someone?




The OP title is very clever in its ambiguity. 

On the one hand and that was my initial reaction that it read like a call to "come out of the closet" but, after seeing the LBGTI 'Safe Place' sticker on the front doors of a local club yesterday, I'm of the opinion that it means a lot more than just "coming out".

In today's aware and tolerant society I now read the OP title as a call that "the time is right" for being accepted as a non-hetero in today's world.


----------



## sydboy007 (17 December 2014)

http://www.queerty.com/gay-cafe-man...-life-to-save-others-in-sydney-siege-20141216



> The openly gay manager who lost his life in Sydney’s Lindt CafÃ© siege is being hailed as a national hero for helping other hostages escape after the terrifying 17-hour ordeal.
> 
> News.com.au reports that Tori Johnson, 34, was attempting to wrestle the gun from hostage-taker Man Haron Monis, who had begun dozing off, when the weapon discharged early Tuesday morning, killing Johnson along with another hostage, Katrina Dawson, 38.
> 
> ...




I'm sure the below will freak out some of the more religious on this forum

http://www.queerty.com/nine-year-old-girl-writes-letter-to-her-gay-teacher-totally-nails-it-20141215







> Dear Mr R,
> 
> Even though you’re gay, I will always treat you the same way as I do now. I still think about you the same way as I used to. You’re a great teacher and these are just some of the word’s (sic) that I would describe you as: great, amazing, fantastic, brilliant, awesome and brave.
> 
> ...


----------



## Tisme (18 December 2014)

sydboy007 said:


> http://www.queerty.com/gay-cafe-man...-life-to-save-others-in-sydney-siege-20141216
> 
> 
> 
> ...




There is no doubt that children are very forgiving


----------



## Wysiwyg (3 September 2017)

Watched some of The Block tonight and couldn't help but notice the voices of the two male judges. They instantly appeared to be fags. I don't know why I am repulsed by that type of person. It may have been school where I do recollect any boys seen as not masculine as being poofters. Like I said on another thread, people be what they want and what I do is watch another tv program.


----------



## SirRumpole (3 September 2017)

Wysiwyg said:


> Watched some of The Block tonight and couldn't help but notice the voices of the two male judges. They instantly appeared to be fags. I don't know why I am repulsed by that type of person. It may have been school where I do recollect any boys seen as not masculine as being poofters. Like I said on another thread, people be what they want and what I do is watch another tv program.




Yeah, well I've been watching some old Are You Being Served videos and I don't think of John Inman as being anything other than funny in that show. He played the part beautifully, as did they all. I think it's only when they start being serious about it that we get serious as well.

Whether the sort of person he played actually exists I don't know, I've never met any like him. I'm pretty sure the barber that cut my hair last week was gay, but I didn't like to ask when he was holding a razor.


----------



## moXJO (3 September 2017)

What? Are we rounding up gays now?


----------



## Wysiwyg (3 September 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Whether the sort of person he played actually exists I don't know, I've never met any like him. I'm pretty sure the barber that cut my hair last week was gay, but I didn't like to ask when he was holding a razor.



By choice the only thing to do is avoid exposure if so desired. I am happy to be homophobic and understand that some people have alternate desires. I certainly won't be passively indoctrinated by increased exposure. Tolerant yes.


----------



## Value Collector (3 September 2017)

Wysiwyg said:


> I am happy to be homophobic .




Really? That's such a weird thing to say.

What part about being homophobic makes you the most happy?  

How does being scared of strangers sexuality add to your life?


----------



## Tisme (3 September 2017)

Value Collector said:


> Really? That's such a weird thing to say.
> 
> What part about being homophobic makes you the most happy?
> 
> How does being scared of strangers sexuality add to your life?




You can't expect someone who isn't a homophile to just turn off the sovereign fecundity of heterosexuals  that is  an innate truth.


----------



## luutzu (3 September 2017)

Tisme said:


> You can't expect someone who isn't a homophile to just turn off the sovereign fecundity of heterosexuals  that is  an innate truth.




can you translate that?


----------



## luutzu (3 September 2017)

Value Collector said:


> Really? That's such a weird thing to say.
> 
> What part about being homophobic makes you the most happy?
> 
> How does being scared of strangers sexuality add to your life?




Being scared but proud, that makes you stronger 

My wife said I'm homophobic but I'm not sure why. I just don't like guys touching me, and kinda have that concerned look when my son hold his kindy guy friend's hands.


----------



## Tisme (3 September 2017)

luutzu said:


> can you translate that?





You are a learned fella,you need to read Thomas Aquinas


----------



## Tisme (3 September 2017)

luutzu said:


> Being scared but proud, that makes you stronger
> 
> My wife said I'm homophobic but I'm not sure why. I just don't like guys touching me, and kinda have that concerned look when my son hold his kindy guy friend's hands.





Yes it's ridiculous to think women would have any idea of the the male mind, which is why a balanced parenting model is important to any children, especially boys who need to grow into natural men


----------



## luutzu (3 September 2017)

Tisme said:


> You are a learned fella,you need to read Thomas Aquinas




If my political science professor couldn't get me to read it then...

Reading "The Rise and Rise of Kerry Packer"... like Uncle Rupee, these media guys really did [still does?] control politicians and use their papers to serve their own political/economic agendas. 

I mean I kind of "know" it, but to be told so bluntly how the sausage is made... Dam it, I do need to know that there are honest and strong leaders out there like kids need their Santa Claus man.


----------



## Wysiwyg (4 September 2017)

Value Collector said:


> What part about being homophobic makes you the most happy?



Al of it. I don't associate with homosexuals and happily admit so.


> How does being scared of strangers sexuality add to your life?



I have no fear and feel comfortable with heteronormatives.


----------



## Value Collector (4 September 2017)

Wysiwyg said:


> I have no fear and feel comfortable with heteronormatives.




But why are you scared of gays?


----------



## SirRumpole (4 September 2017)

Value Collector said:


> But why are you scared of gays?




Fear of a pass being made ?


----------



## Value Collector (4 September 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Fear of a pass being made ?




Well then Phobic is the right word, because that is certainly an irrational fear.

The reason I said that saying "happy to be homophobic" seemed like such a weird thing to say, is that I have never met anyone who's irrational fears truly bring happiness to them.

I mean irrational fear is something that you should work on to offer come, because it hinders you more than helps. there is nothing more empowering than being able to let go of an irrational fear, that is what truly makes you stronger.

Fear should be like a little alarm bell, it's your body warning you that danger might be present, But you don't let it cripple you, it should jolt you a bit so you assess the situation, take note of the actual danger (if there is any real danger), then press the snooze button on the alarm and move on.

At the parachuting school they had a saying "Knowledge dispels fear", which can be translated to Phobias equal poor knowledge.


----------



## SirRumpole (4 September 2017)

Value Collector said:


> Well then Phobic is the right word, because that is certainly an irrational fear.




While the chances of a heterosexual man being attacked by one or more homosexuals are small , it has happened, so I'm not sure if the fear is entirely irrational.

Not all heterosexual men have the physiques of SAS troopers, and not all gay men are effeminate and I'm sure there have been cases of homo on hetero rape , maybe un-reported due to shame. 

Maybe the proud homophobic has had such an encounter.


----------



## tech/a (4 September 2017)

Ever been to prison?

I may know people who have.


----------



## notting (4 September 2017)

To illustrate


----------



## Value Collector (4 September 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> so I'm not sure if the fear is entirely irrational.
> .





By definition, a "phobia" is an irrational fear. if its not irrational its not a phobia.

I am not saying you shouldn't ever feel fear, e.g. if two big Rottweilers are charging you, you will get a jolt of fear, that is not a Phobia of dogs, but seeing a person walking their young puppy and being crippled with fear, thats a phobia.

If you were scared of walking down Oxford st because a gay guy might wink at you, thats like being scared of the puppy.



> At the parachuting school they had a saying "Knowledge dispels fear", which can be translated to Phobias equal poor knowledge




Actually a better way to put would be "Ignorance creates fear", I might copy right that, lol.




> Ever been to prison?




Did you know that most sexual assaults in prison are by men that identify as being straight.

I think its another example of the negative effects of sexual repression, So if you are scared of being raped by a man, you should have a phobia of sexually repressed straight guys, and you want healthy sexual expression to be common place.


----------



## Wysiwyg (4 September 2017)

Value Collector said:


> By definition, a "phobia" is an irrational fear. if its not irrational its not a phobia.



I think it goes back to around seven or eight years old when a boy twice as tall and I suppose in his upper teens forced me into a corner and tried to kiss me. I could see in his eyes he wanted something from me that wasn't normal. Minds eye has him puckering up and I yelled and swung my arms and escaped. That is my experience and I was terrified then.


----------



## Value Collector (4 September 2017)

Wysiwyg said:


> I think it goes back to around seven or eight years old when a boy twice as tall and I suppose in his upper teens forced me into a corner and tried to kiss me. I could see in his eyes he wanted something from me that wasn't normal. Minds eye has him puckering up and I yelled and swung my arms and escaped. That is my experience and I was terrified then.




Yep, that could be what formed the base of the phobia you currently have, I think the way to move past it will be to pick up on your feelings when you have them, and then try to spend a couple of moments to self assess and decide whether the way you are feeling/acting is justified by what is actually happening thats making you feel that way.

For example, a person might have a phobia of dogs because they had been bailed up by or even bitten by a dog as a child, so even as an adult the sight or sound of any dog brings back that fear.

The first step is recognising the fear or uncomfortable feeling is actually being brought on not by the golden retriever with the stick in its mouth in front of you, but by the previous bad experience, you can start to see the golden retriever for what it is, and act in a more appropriate way and be more relaxed, and embrace the dog for what it is.

If a woman developed a phobia of straight men because she was raped, that fear is something she should work on to over come, if she wants to have a happy life, the irrational fear of all straight males isn't something she should be happy to have.


----------



## SirRumpole (4 September 2017)

Value Collector said:


> If a woman developed a phobia of straight men because she was raped, that fear is something she should work on to over come, if she wants to have a happy life, the irrational fear of all straight males isn't something she should be happy to have.




On the other hand a heterosexual male can have a happy life without associating with gays .


----------



## Value Collector (4 September 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> On the other hand a heterosexual male can have a happy life without associating with gays .




I think a life without irrational fear is a happier one.

Sure a person who has an irrational fear of dogs can still be happy as long as they avoid dogs, but even if they do their best to avoid dogs, the underlying phobia is still there, and that creates discomfort and negative feelings, which impact on their over all happiness and wellbeing.

Getting rid of the irrational fear will improve your life, even if you think you can avoid dogs (or gays), and it might even improve the life of the dogs (or gays), that you happen to run into randomly or can't avoid.

If you have a phobia of dogs, a society that wants all dogs muzzled might appeal to you, buts its hardly fair on the dogs, and you just getting over your fear might prove better for you to.


----------



## Klogg (4 September 2017)

This entire thread is just silly... The fact that gay people should 'fess up' suggests they've done something wrong. I'm not sure how sexual preference is a crime anymore.




> I think it goes back to around seven or eight years old when a boy twice as tall and I suppose in his upper teens forced me into a corner and tried to kiss me. I could see in his eyes he wanted something from me that wasn't normal.



This story made me laugh so much. What if it was a really tall, strong and perhaps not so good-looking girl who tried to kiss you? Would you still be terrified? Would it be normal then?


----------



## Wysiwyg (4 September 2017)

Klogg said:


> This story made me laugh so much. What if it was a really tall, strong and perhaps not so good-looking girl who tried to kiss you? Would you still be terrified? Would it be normal then?



You want me to say that I would have ran away too (and probably would have) so it would seem normal if male or female came onto me like that. As I stated before I could see in his eyes he wanted something from me that I wasn't going to give. Looking back now it could have been my pooper getting taken. My only expeience up to then were male/female, mother/father, aunty/uncle, grandma/grandpa. I tell you if that was attempted now they would get a crossing right elbow to the head. 
To me it isn't "normal".


----------



## Logique (4 September 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> While the chances of a heterosexual man being attacked by one or more homosexuals are small , it has happened, so I'm not sure if the fear is entirely irrational.
> Not all heterosexual men have the physiques of SAS troopers, and not all gay men are effeminate and I'm sure there have been cases of homo on hetero rape , maybe un-reported due to shame.
> Maybe the proud homophobic has had such an encounter.



True. Shawshank Redemption, a good movie, but those prison scenes...ughh.


----------



## Tisme (4 September 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> *While the chances of a heterosexual man being attacked by one or more homosexuals are small *, it has happened, so I'm not sure if the fear is entirely irrational.
> 
> Not all heterosexual men have the physiques of SAS troopers, and not all gay men are effeminate and I'm sure there have been cases of homo on hetero rape , maybe un-reported due to shame.
> 
> Maybe the proud homophobic has had such an encounter.





Depends on the opportunity. e.g.:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/jul/17/the-rape-of-men


----------



## Tisme (4 September 2017)

Klogg said:


> This entire thread is just silly... The fact that gay people should 'fess up' suggests they've done something wrong. I'm not sure how sexual preference is a crime anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> *This story made me laugh so much.* What if it was a really tall, strong and perhaps not so good-looking girl who tried to kiss you? Would you still be terrified? Would it be normal then?




Approximately 85,000 women and 12,000 men are raped in England and Wales alone every year, laughed 'til I stopped

If homos are 2% of the population that would result in a weighted average of 85/98 = 0.86 versus 6.0 so homosexuals are 6/0.86 =7 times more likely to rape


----------



## satanoperca (4 September 2017)

Tisme said:


> so homosexuals are 6/0.86 =7 times more likely to rape




WOW, so you assume only gay men, or those that identify as gay, rape other men.

You need to get out more.



Tisme said:


> Approximately 85,000 women and 12,000 men are raped in England and Wales alone every year, laughed 'til I stopped



 You need help, nothing funny about rape


----------



## Tisme (4 September 2017)

satanoperca said:


> WOW, so you assume only gay men, or those that identify as gay, rape other men.
> 
> You need to get out more.
> 
> ...




You're not that dim are you? 

Rape is penile penetration and putting it in someone's bum hole is homosexuality by definition.

Try reading it in the context of the quoted post. Of course there's nothing funny about rape and nothing funny, albeit weirdly amusing,  about someone who attacks because of lack of a comprehension skillset....what are they teaching at school these days !!!


----------



## satanoperca (4 September 2017)

Tisme said:


> You're not that dim are you?
> 
> Rape is penile penetration and putting it in someone's bum hole is homosexuality by definition.
> 
> Try reading it in the context of the quoted post. Of course there's nothing funny about rape and nothing funny, albeit weirdly amusing,  about someone who attacks because of lack of a comprehension skillset....what are they teaching at school these days !!!




WTF, are you normal, do you have some sort of twisted, f***ed up reason for being here?

Read what you write, or even better get someone with have a brain to read it.

Let me help you out a little.

Rape is not just penile penetration, it is any form of sexual penetration whether it be by a man or a woman, on a man or a woman or that be child.

Just look at what you wrote.

If a penis is put up someone bum, they are homosexual. So a priest who screws a young boy, both are homo's or just the priest. 

Putting a dick up someones bum is homosexuality, really so all those men who put their penises up a womens bums are gay. LOL

You need to get a laugh, go a pray to god and stay well clear of society.

I cannot accept anyone who thinks rape is a joke or slightly amusing.

You are one twisted mother f---ker.


----------



## Tisme (4 September 2017)

satanoperca said:


> WTF, are you normal, do you have some sort of twisted, f***ed up reason for being here?
> 
> Read what you write, or even better get someone with have a brain to read it.
> 
> ...





So at the moment I'm having a dilemma A) do I let this pass to the keeper or B) do I don my robe of a thousand cuts and go to town or C) is it fair to be arguing with a ...well you know D) Do I continue with "come in spinner"


----------



## satanoperca (4 September 2017)

Try B, C, or D.
But not A.

I cannot stand people who accept rape on any form at any level


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## basilio (4 September 2017)

Tisme said:


> https://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/jul/17/the-rape-of-men




That story was one of the most brutal and horrific articles I have read - almost ever. 
But it was about prolonged, sadistic torture - not being gay.

So why is a sadistic torture story part of this thread ?  Is this part of "Come in Spinner Tisme ? Just pulling people in with ... what exactly ?  That was the question Satanopera posed and then decided you didn't need the benefit of any doubt.  

He gave you both barrels, reloaded and did it again. If you talk nasty, nasty rubbish there will be consequences.

This thread started,  for whatever reason,  to try and persuade people to come out as gay. In this forum, with the language and contempt that has been expressed by many posters,  one would have to have balls of steel  or be mentally deranged to acknowledge being gay. And I assume sticking up other peoples *right *to be gay would gain a pretty similar response. Ce la vie.

It just doesn't make this a fun place to be.


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## Klogg (5 September 2017)

Tisme said:


> Approximately 85,000 women and 12,000 men are raped in England and Wales alone every year, laughed 'til I stopped
> 
> If homos are 2% of the population that would result in a weighted average of 85/98 = 0.86 versus 6.0 so homosexuals are 6/0.86 =7 times more likely to rape




A few points:
- Where did you get the 2% figure from?
- What about those that are bisexual?
- Did you know that it's possible for women to rape men?

The figures you've quoted are meaningless.




> To me it isn't "normal".



What is normal? If you mean social norm - 300 years ago, slavery was 'normal', now we're (rightly) horrified by the thought of it.
If you're referring to biological norm, there is none. Evolution takes its course without an end goal, and the genes that don't reproduce, die off. It's really that simple.

It sounds like you were scared by something foreign to you. Since you had already formed your idea of 'normal' from previous exposures, the concept of a male/male relationship simply didn't gel with your normal, so you rejected it.


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## Tisme (5 September 2017)

basilio said:


> That story was one of the most brutal and horrific articles I have read - almost ever.
> But it was about prolonged, sadistic torture - not being gay.
> 
> So why is a sadistic torture story part of this thread ?  Is this part of "Come in Spinner Tisme ? Just pulling people in with ... what exactly ?  That was the question Satanopera posed and then decided you didn't need the benefit of any doubt.
> ...




Well because, Rumpole made a statement that was measured but incorrect and I thought I would correct that by pointing out that homosexuals do infact brutalise other men. It's not all cotton candy and fizzy drinks out there you know. I have a feeling you have never been exposed tother side have you my son.... I suspect you are superimposing a fantasy image on a whole demographic...truth or dare.


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## Tisme (5 September 2017)

Klogg said:


> A few points:
> - Where did you get the 2% figure from?
> - What about those that are bisexual?
> - Did you know that it's possible for women to rape men?
> ...




Mate, it's pointless trying to wrap up stupidty and disguise it as common sense. Go ask your mother or some other person in your gene pool with family values and she/he will surely straighten you up.

Here's a guide for simple minds. When a man sticks his penis in "another" mans bum hole that is homosexuality. When a man sticks his penis in either sex without consent that is rape. It doesn't matter what someone labels themselves, if they perform a homosexual act they are performing a homosexual act and if they rape someone they are raping someone, perhaps homosexually. You know this, everyone knows this, but for some reason the horror of acknowledging it,  means that apologists try to use blind eye logic to convince themselves that it can't be true, that it's some kind of sanitised performance.


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## Tisme (5 September 2017)

basilio said:


> This thread started,  for whatever reason,  to try and persuade people to come out as gay. .




And here's me thinking was a tongue in cheek, albeit offensive to some, rhetorical callout.

Your response right there speaks heaps about how we are supposed to bestow special privileges on people with a sexual persuasion.

Should we start a thread  for coloured people (you know that other 95% minority group who aren't white skinned), women only (that 51% group) or maybe even, God forbid that 2.5% who the world blames for everything, simply because they were born with Anglo/saxon/celtic/nordic genes.


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## PZ99 (5 September 2017)

Hmmm, think I better extend my cookie use by dates.
No way I'm going to "log out" in this environment.

For the record, I'm straight as a gun barrel - my GF owns all the curves  
	

		
			
		

		
	







Topless version. 



Spoiler








_Thankyouverymuch...._


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## Tisme (5 September 2017)

PZ99 said:


> Hmmm, think I better extend my cookie use by dates.
> No way I'm going to "log out" in this environment.
> 
> For the record, I'm straight as a gun barrel - my GF owns all the curves
> ...




Is that Rudolph Nureyev ?


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## Tisme (5 September 2017)

satanoperca said:


> Try B, C, or D.
> But not A.
> 
> I cannot stand people who accept rape on any form at any level





Me neither. At least you have one redeeming feature that we can both agree on.


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## PZ99 (5 September 2017)

Tisme said:


> Is that Rudolph Nureyev ?



No he was a ballet dancer. She's more of a belly dancer


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## moXJO (5 September 2017)

I have a couple ladyboys and a gay guy coming to my 1yo birthday this week. Have a young  girl that is very close to the family that transitioned to male a few years back. And know a few others through various people.
Queer society is just like any other groups of people. You get your $hitbags and you get good people. Same with race. Environment that you have grown up in is usually the attitude changer. Not so much color or preference.
I don't actively have gay friends, just friends through friends.

Generally I'm not tolerant towards anyone I deem as scum, if I  think they are sh!tbags they can get punted with my foot out the door. Otherwise I give most people a chance.

I understand wysiwyg and Tismes stance. Most of the people I grew up with are the same.
 They are allowed their opinions and concerns.

 But I think this thread is a waste of time. It's not adding anything to the debate except bile.


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## Klogg (5 September 2017)

Tisme said:


> Mate, it's pointless trying to wrap up stupidty and disguise it as common sense. Go ask your mother or some other person in your gene pool with family values and she/he will surely straighten you up.
> 
> Here's a guide for simple minds. When a man sticks his penis in "another" mans bum hole that is homosexuality. When a man sticks his penis in either sex without consent that is rape. It doesn't matter what someone labels themselves, if they perform a homosexual act they are performing a homosexual act and if they rape someone they are raping someone, perhaps homosexually. You know this, everyone knows this, but for some reason the horror of acknowledging it,  means that apologists try to use blind eye logic to convince themselves that it can't be true, that it's some kind of sanitised performance.




I wasn't questioning the definition of homosexual or the sexual acts that go along with it, only the statistics you quoted. If we're going to quote data, we should at least be sure it's accurate and relevant to the topic at hand.


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## Tisme (5 September 2017)

PZ99 said:


> No he was a ballet dancer. She's more of a belly dancer




Now that's actually interesting. Shall we hijack the thread and discuss this at length?


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## Tisme (5 September 2017)

Klogg said:


> I wasn't questioning the definition of homosexual or the sexual acts that go along with it, only the statistics you quoted. If we're going to quote data, we should at least be sure it's accurate and relevant to the topic at hand.




If you read my other posts you will see that I do actually reprise stats. That's one of the things I do everyday... use real stats for probability, profit and profligation.


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## Tisme (5 September 2017)

moXJO said:


> I have a couple ladyboys and a gay guy coming to my 1yo birthday this week. Have a young  girl that is very close to the family that transitioned to male a few years back. And know a few others through various people.
> Queer society is just like any other groups of people. You get your $hitbags and you get good people. Same with race. Environment that you have grown up in is usually the attitude changer. Not so much color or preference.
> I don't actively have gay friends, just friends through friends.
> 
> ...




The thread was always a waste of time, that's its attraction.

I do actively have gay friends and talking about it to them is the same as with heteros in social company =  you don't and the older one gets the more of a "dirty old man" tag you get if you do.


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## PZ99 (5 September 2017)

Tisme said:


> Now that's actually interesting. Shall we hijack the thread and discuss this at length?



Well if it adds decorum to the forum by restoring "happy" into a gay thread then I'm on board with it


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## Tisme (5 September 2017)

PZ99 said:


> Well if it adds decorum to the forum by restoring "happy" into a gay thread then I'm on board with it




To know me is to love me ...I'm nearly always happy, but not necessarily gay.

This belly dancing thing .... I was once out in the stickless of Dubai for a bbq of camel & fancy free and lo and behold if they didn't have a Romanian dancing women dressed like Yvonne De Carlo out of a movie,  ...yeah that's the spirit.


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## SirRumpole (5 September 2017)

Tisme said:


> To know me is to love me ...I'm nearly always happy, but not necessarily gay.
> 
> This belly dancing thing .... I was once out in the stickless of Dubai for a bbq of camel & fancy free and lo and behold if they didn't have a Romanian dancing women dressed like Yvonne De Carlo out of a movie,  ...yeah that's the spirit.




Do they supply ladders when the lads go out with a camel ?


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## Tisme (5 September 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Do they supply ladders when the lads go out with a camel ?





I have no idea what you are talking about!!!


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## satanoperca (5 September 2017)

WOW WOW WOW
Tisme, you have dominated this thread, how many responses above are all about you and your opinion.

Well, lets look at some stats, out of the last 18 replies, 10 have been you, over 50% - dominating or maybe you have a compulsive disorder that could be manifesting your desire for men, lol.

And then i look at the other threads and I see the same.

So you have option a, b,c,d or e available, do you feel lucky.


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## Wysiwyg (5 September 2017)

Klogg said:


> What is normal? If you mean social norm - 300 years ago, slavery was 'normal', now we're (rightly) horrified by the thought of it.



Normal is what someone, a few, a group, a country or the whole world agrees is normal. 


> If you're referring to biological norm, there is none. Evolution takes its course without an end goal, and the genes that don't reproduce, die off. It's really that simple.



Normal as in male and female together is normal to me. *I see it in all creatures great and small for mating and offspring purposes*. What your idea of normal regarding humans is for pleasure purposes hence the challenge by unnatural partners to change what is the normal union between a male and female called marriage.     


> It sounds like you were scared by something foreign to you. Since you had already formed your idea of 'normal' from previous exposures, the concept of a male/male relationship simply didn't gel with your normal, so you rejected it.



My pleasure and marriage normal is with female. I accept you have an alternative normal. Thanks for the discussion.


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## Tisme (5 September 2017)

satanoperca said:


> WOW WOW WOW
> Tisme, you have dominated this thread, how many responses above are all about you and your opinion.
> 
> Well, lets look at some stats, out of the last 18 replies, 10 have been you, over 50% - dominating or maybe you have a compulsive disorder that could be manifesting your desire for men, lol.
> ...




putting my Paul Keating hat on.... I mean really is that the best you can come back with? The old chestnut that if I disagree with you I must be in denial, a closet homo, protest too much, yadda, yadda yadda. Does that mean that you are so welded onto masquerading as supporting homosexual causes you are infact a homophobe. That's it isn't it, you are one of those a) homophobes, b) homophobes, c)homophobes, n-1) homophobes.


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## satanoperca (5 September 2017)

Stats are stats, 11/19 posts are yours, that is all I have to say.


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## luutzu (5 September 2017)

Tisme said:


> So at the moment I'm having a dilemma A) do I let this pass to the keeper or B) do I don my robe of a thousand cuts and go to town or C) is it fair to be arguing with a ...well you know D) Do I continue with "come in spinner"




That Irish humour getting you into trouble again McGee?


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## Macquack (5 September 2017)

Tisme said:


> putting my Paul Keating hat on.... I mean really is that the best you can come back with? The old chestnut that if I disagree with you I must be in denial, a closet homo, protest too much, yadda, yadda yadda. Does that mean that you are so welded onto masquerading as supporting homosexual causes you are infact a homophobe. That's it isn't it, you are one of those a) homophobes, b) homophobes, c)homophobes, n-1) homophobes.



I think you will find that it was in fact you that lead with the " old chestnut" closet homo jibe when you said "Is it fair to be arguing with ...well a you know".

Anyway, I have read that "pot" is a good treatment for ADHT.


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## Tisme (5 September 2017)

luutzu said:


> That Irish humour getting you into trouble again McGee?




You love that don't you LOL.  It's a talent I'll give you that.


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## Tisme (5 September 2017)

Macquack said:


> I think you will find that it was in fact you that lead with the " old chestnut" closet homo jibe when you said "Is it fair to be arguing with ...well a you know".
> 
> Anyway, I have read that "pot" is a good treatment for ADHT.




 it's so nice when predictions come true


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## Tisme (5 September 2017)

satanoperca said:


> Stats are stats, 11/19 posts are yours, that is all I have to say.




 That's a relief, I thought you might be sooking and come back at me with more hard hitting posts.


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## satanoperca (5 September 2017)

Must be going for a record 14/23 posts are you.

Do you need some suggestions on how to spend your time?


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## Tisme (6 September 2017)

satanoperca said:


> Must be going for a record 14/23 posts are you.
> 
> *Do you need some suggestions on how to spend your time?*




After reading some of your forums wide posts, I'm guessing you want to share your hard earned secrets of achieving boredom? Is trolling the apex goal or are you just showing it off as just one weapon in your vast arsenal of wit and cunning?

By all means please post you suggestions, I'm sure we could use an injection of IQ tonic.


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## basilio (6 September 2017)

Nah I don't think he's trolling Tizzy. He's just fed up with some of the poisonous posts you have thrown up  (perhaps even in the literal sense) and then tried to laugh them off and perhaps characterise them as  winding people up..

It would be "interesting" to contrast the "we're White, we're Bright, *we're straigh*t and we're proud to be Right posts "  with the sensitive cosmopolitian who has an empathic ear for their many gay friends/acquaintances.

And by the way some of the stuff you say is just out and out wrong.


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## SirRumpole (6 September 2017)

basilio said:


> It would be "interesting" to contrast the "we're White, we're Bright, *we're straigh*t and we're proud to be Right posts " with the sensitive cosmopolitian who has an empathic ear for their many gay friends/acquaintances.




Hmm. I wonder how a "straight pride" march would be treated by the shrill gay lobby ? Probably as as a provocative attack on homosexuals , whereas of course the Gay Mardi Gras is simply a few gay guys and girls out having a bit of fun and not at all offensive to 98% of the population.


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## Tisme (6 September 2017)

basilio said:


> Nah I don't think he's trolling Tizzy. He's just fed up with some of the poisonous posts you have thrown up  (perhaps even in the literal sense) and then tried to laugh them off and perhaps characterise them as  winding people up..
> 
> It would be "interesting" to contrast the "we're White, we're Bright, *we're straigh*t and we're proud to be Right posts "  with the sensitive cosmopolitian who has an empathic ear for their many gay friends/acquaintances.
> 
> And by the way some of the stuff you say is just out and out wrong.





Of course he's trolling.  I'm not his keeper and neither are you. Sheeple don't like it when their mob inculcation is challenged.


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## Tisme (6 September 2017)

basilio said:


> And by the way some of the stuff you say is just out and out wrong.




name one instance, It's you who decided a piece I posted was a made up effrontery, two days later it was front and centre on all the national papers around the world. It's you who denies the fact that genetics have no proof of association, causal or otherwise, of homosexuality.

I don't deny I make errors of fact, but it's rare, very rare


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## Wysiwyg (7 September 2017)

Tisme said:


> Of course he's trolling.



 It is to make you puke up. Dianetics described it as 'blow off' ...

"For what we are going to try to do is "blow off" or discharge as many life force units as possible from the reactive engram bank and weaken it. Every charge we get from the bank will reinforce the ability of the patient to carry on in existence and will aid his analytical mind to get into the engram bank. Hence, discharging these frozen units is a vital and important part of therapy and the condition of the case will improve in direct ratio to the number of these units so discharged."

This is fiurther illustrated in the following you tube.


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## Garpal Gumnut (7 September 2017)

I find this thread offensive.

Not because I have gay friends and family members who are gay.

It is because it does not follow the form of logic and argument.

It is a Dead Parrot. 

Can an admin either cease it or moderate it more carefully for Silly Walks. 

gg


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## satanoperca (7 September 2017)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I find this thread offensive.
> 
> Not because I have gay friends and family members who are gay.
> 
> ...




While I do agree with 100% GG, we need this type of discussion to prevent :

'The devastating reason my 12-year-old wants to die'

Read more: http://www.essentialkids.com.au/edu...ld-wants-to-die-20170906-gybsxd#ixzz4ry66l549 

Because at at 12, she new she was different, she was gay.

F---king heart breaking for the parents who have a child wanting to kill herself because of what society accepts as normal.

There are some that say, No to gay marriage, that is their choice, but when they bring children into the debate, they should think about these horrifying facts.

Statistics for LGBTI Population


16% of LGBTI[2] young people aged 16 to 27 reported that they had attempted suicide[iv]
35% of Transgender people aged 18 and over[3] have attempted suicide in their lifetime[v]
19% of people with an Intersex variation aged 16 and over had attempted suicide on the basis of issues related their Intersex status
8% of Same-Gender Attracted and Gender Diverse young people between 14 and 21 years had attempted suicide, 18% had experienced verbal abuse, and 37% of those who experienced physical abuse[vii]
Statistics for General Population


3.2% of people (4.4% females; 2.1% males) aged 16 and over have attempted suicide in their lifetime; 0.4% of general population (0.5% females; 0.3% males) in the last 12 months[viii]
1.1% of people (1.7% females; 0.5% males) aged 16 to 24 have attempted suicide in the past 12 months[ix]


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## Gringotts Bank (7 September 2017)

satanoperca said:


> There are some that say, No to gay marriage, that is their choice, but when they bring children into the debate, they should think about these horrifying facts.
> 
> Statistics for LGBTI Population
> 
> ...




The potential for certain individuals to be devastated if the vote went against gay marriage is high.  In that sense it shouldn't even be up for voting.  One can only imagine what it would feel like to have a formalized, nation-wide "you're not ok" vote in relation to some aspect of yourself you cannot change (or cannot easily change).

But consider also that these high suicide rates are not necessarily the result of societal condemnation alone.  They could be resulting from the same dynamic which caused the homosexuality to appear in the first place.  I'm talking about incomplete or damaged bonding in early childhood.  As a society we might be better off not doing anything until its aetiology is understood.  I thought the Libs were right to wait off on the matter.


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## Garpal Gumnut (7 September 2017)

satanoperca said:


> While I do agree with 100% GG, we need this type of discussion to prevent :
> 
> 'The devastating reason my 12-year-old wants to die'
> 
> ...




Agree totally santanoperca.

I have in a past life counselled kids like your daughter and that is why I find it inappropriate to discuss this topic in a meaningless thread such as this.

The thread, and I do not include your comment, is more about trolling, than meaningful discussion of people's angst.

gg


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## Tisme (7 September 2017)

satanoperca said:


> While I do agree with 100% GG, we need this type of discussion to prevent :
> 
> 'The devastating reason my 12-year-old wants to die'
> 
> ...




 Teenage suicide attempts are not the exclusive domain of sexual attraction. I'm not unfamiliar with suicide, it seems to be family tradition in my past lineage and I've had to cope with teenage friends of my kids who have jumped, poisoned and overdosed to suicide and succeeded, none of them displayed visceral malcontent.

I don't know what the real suicide rate is amongst gay people, but that's because the ABS doesn't collect such data. Any data there is out there anectodal. 

I'm sympathise  for the shock and enduring trauma you have gone through, if that is the case.


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## basilio (7 September 2017)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Agree totally santanoperca.
> 
> I have in a past life counselled kids like your daughter and that is why I find it inappropriate to discuss this topic in a meaningless thread such as this.
> 
> ...




Agree on the overall nature of this thread currently.

However it could be meaningful. It could have more open questions and discussion. I suppose it's about the choices of  posters comments and moderation of content
What are the standards of ASF posting ?


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## basilio (7 September 2017)

Tisme said:


> I don't know what the real suicide rate is amongst gay people, but that's because the ABS doesn't collect such data. Any data there is out there anectodal.




The paper that Satanoperaca quoted was a useful starting point. The authors qualify their figures from the start  but nonethless they are the ones that are available.

http://lgbtihealth.org.au/statistics/#_ftn2


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## satanoperca (7 September 2017)

It was from 

https://www.humanrights.gov.au/face-facts-lesbian-gay-bisexual-trans-and-intersex-people

But then again, maybe this government office has been infiltrated by those not normal people (gays) to objective the facts in order to turn more people to becoming not normal and getting gay marriage approved.


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## Garpal Gumnut (7 September 2017)

I find this thread non-productive so will start a new one. " Family Stress and Teenage Suicide "
Not having a go at anyone.

gg


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## wayneL (8 September 2017)

Tisme said:


> Teenage suicide attempts are not the exclusive domain of sexual attraction. I'm not unfamiliar with suicide, it seems to be family tradition in my past lineage and I've had to cope with teenage friends of my kids who have jumped, poisoned and overdosed to suicide and succeeded, none of them displayed visceral malcontent.
> 
> I don't know what the real suicide rate is amongst gay people, but that's because the ABS doesn't collect such data. Any data there is out there anectodal.
> 
> I'm sympathise  for the shock and enduring trauma you have gone through, if that is the case.



I personally don't know any teenagers who have attempted suicide and being in the horsey game,  I know A LOT of gay and lesbian teenagers and young adults. 

I know one young girl who in the late eighties attempted suicide over the hole in the ozone layer trolling. 

As you all know, I know one who succeeded over cc trolling just recently. So let's refrain from this emotional blackmail shall we?


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## Value Collector (8 September 2017)

wayneL said:


> I personally don't know any teenagers who have attempted suicide





I don't personally know anyone who rides horses, but I think it would be silly for me to assume they don't exist.


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## wayneL (8 September 2017)

Value Collector said:


> I don't personally know anyone who rides horses, but I think it would be silly for me to assume they don't exist.



Way to miss a point mate.


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## Value Collector (8 September 2017)

wayneL said:


> Way to miss a point mate.



I couldn't see a point to the three anecdotal statements you made.


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## Logique (8 September 2017)

Not that there's anything wrong with that, which by the way, the Seinfeld team conceived in support of gays


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## Darc Knight (13 October 2018)

Wow. Stumbled upon this thread. Interesting, amusing and serious at the same time. Tisme taking on all comers and rattling cages.

No I'm not and:



moXJO said:


> I have a couple ladyboys and a gay guy coming to my 1yo birthday this week. Have a young  girl that is very close to the family that transitioned to male a few years back. And know a few others through various people.
> .




Interesting, you're more Liberal than you let on Mo


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## moXJO (14 October 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> Wow. Stumbled upon this thread. Interesting, amusing and serious at the same time. Tisme taking on all comers and rattling cages.
> 
> No I'm not and:
> 
> ...



So long as what you do doesn't harm anyone. Then I  fully support everyone's right to live their life how they want.
Its when our freedom's start getting whittled away that I generally have a problem.


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## Tink (14 October 2018)

Homosexual or Heterosexual are still 2 genders.

Male and Female.
Mother and Father
Boy and Girl.

---
_Gay
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_


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