# Forex Robots - legit or scam?



## beachlife

Hi
There is a website featuring products that claim to have "robots" that automatically trade the forex market for you. (See screenshot)

Has anyone used these type of things?

Do they work?

Seems logical to auto trade a back tested system but sounds too good to be true.

Thanks
Steve


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## white_goodman

i think you'll find the ones heavily advertised and sold for a price tend to be scams or not work as effectively as advertised... alot of forums have ppl testing and brainstorming EA's. Best to get involved testing these ones out because they are free. Also you can combine bits and pieces of different EA's that you like to make your own EA.


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## tom_rhodes

i use that Fab Turbo and it works pretty well.... i would like to get into the forums but i really don't understand how to program.


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## tom_rhodes

forgot to ask - which forums would you recommend for the robots?


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## Stormin_Norman

www.forexfactory.com + www.forex-tsd.com/

i and a computer programming friend have 4, and are working on a new one.

you can make them appear a lot better then they actually are - which is what most of the advertised ones do.

for eg, one of our EAs in backtesting can turn 10,000 into 1.6 million in 4 years. live though, its another story...

so no, not a scam, although scam artists love them.

be cynical of back tests, and look to forward test any you plan to use first for a good 3 months.


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## Aussiejeff

tom_rhodes said:


> forgot to ask - *which forums would you recommend for the robots?*




ASF has robots.



Sorry.

Couldn't help it....



aj


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## white_goodman

yeh backtesting results arent reliable at all due to repainting indicators etc


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## fapturbo

Some EA's work better then other.

If you are going to choose one then choose one that has forward testing results and not just backtested data as evidence.

There is little doubt that they work. If you have a spare couple of thousand dollars sitting around doing absolutely nothing in a bank account then it is worthwhile.

Go Markets MT4 is a good platform and I'm using Go Markets for my EA Live Trading.

For Forex you can Trade 0.01 Lot Size which equates to 0.10c per Pip.

You can even get started with as little as $500 or even less if you wanted.

There is no minimum account balance required by Go Markets when first starting out.


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## white_goodman

fapturbo said:


> Some EA's work better then other.
> 
> If you are going to choose one then choose one that has forward testing results and not just backtested data as evidence.
> 
> There is little doubt that they work. If you have a spare couple of thousand dollars sitting around doing absolutely nothing in a bank account then it is worthwhile.
> 
> Go Markets MT4 is a good platform and I'm using Go Markets for my EA Live Trading.
> 
> For Forex you can Trade 0.01 Lot Size which equates to 0.10c per Pip.
> 
> You can even get started with as little as $500 or even less if you wanted.
> 
> There is no minimum account balance required by Go Markets when first starting out.





you can go even lower for live testing with real money with ibfx... they have nano lots which is 100 units as opposed to micro lot which is 1000units. Demo forward testing is good, live real testing which tiny amounts is better cos you get real spreads, execution etc....


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## Wysiwyg

Faps matey, you went live with the Turbo so how is it going?Any screen shots of the pending orders or even a hint of triggers?


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## Stormin_Norman

if it works its a steal at $200.


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## fapturbo

It works have no doubt about it. I am using very low risk settings and have achieved a 2% increase in two trading days.

It works by trading the Range during the Asian Maket times and it is very good at it.

Currently the Spread for eurgbp and eurchf is 6 pips each and still making profitable trades which is reasonably difficult for a scalping EA.


http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5899/70009431dn4.jpg

That is an example of how it trades. Only when the market is flat and not volatile.


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## white_goodman

once you get to your intial depoist in profit id withdraw so your playing with "free money" so to speak... sorta run the EA care free


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## Stormin_Norman

fapturbo said:


> It works have no doubt about it. I am using very low risk settings and have achieved a 2% increase in two trading days.




would u mind starting a thread and keeping us informed of your results?


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## fapturbo

I am forward testing the your_lucky EA (which is available for free and has been extesively tested by many and forward tested by many) on a demo platform at the moment which is available for free.

It also trades the asian session when the market is flat.

http://www.forex-tsd.com/expert-advisors-metatrader-4/17341-_rdb_the-best-free-ea.html

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/6264/11848130rh0.jpg

There are plenty of people forward testing this EA.

It is optimised to be run when the spread is four or less.

Would you run a scam if it is available for free??


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## Wysiwyg

Thanks fap, the 4 hour chart is hard to define and was wondering if a 1 or 5minute chart can show the trades up better.





Stormin_Norman said:


> would u mind starting a thread and keeping us informed of your results?




That is what this thread is for.


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## Stormin_Norman

i was meaning a specific one for that EA, but im cool with wherever it comes up!


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## pilbara

fapturbo said:


> It works have no doubt about it. I am using very low risk settings and have achieved a 2% increase in two trading days.
> 
> It works by trading the Range during the Asian Maket times and it is very good at it.
> 
> Currently the Spread for eurgbp and eurchf is 6 pips each and still making profitable trades which is reasonably difficult for a scalping EA.
> 
> 
> http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5899/70009431dn4.jpg
> 
> That is an example of how it trades. Only when the market is flat and not volatile.



This EA will lose big money when the market is trending.  It has a fixed stop loss of 110 pips.

I guess the main assumption for the trading time policy is that there are no serious trends between European currencies (EUR,CHF,GBP) during Asian trading hours.


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## Page

If we talk about forex trading software’s we can find many. However, cannot say which one is a fraud and which one is ok to trade. All look alike, which confuses an individual trader.


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## Wysiwyg

Fap if you`re still around do you have any forward results or for/against comments on your system since going live.






.


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## fapturbo

Wysiwyg said:


> Fap if you`re still around do you have any forward results or for/against comments on your system since going live.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .




I am still around. It appears I need to moderate what I post to some extent because apparantly I am spamming and trying to sell/promote. 

So I'm unsure as to what is allowed to be posted with respect to this EA since it is a commericial product. I'm not trying to promote. I'm just putting up my personal experiences. That's it.

I am curious, if I was posting comments and statistics and charts with respect to a free system/EA would I have been moderated?


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## Wysiwyg

fapturbo said:


> I am curious, if I was posting comments and statistics and charts with respect to a free system/EA would I have been moderated?




I think the reasoning is because there are re-sellers and spammers that turn up from time to time and try to promote their commercial product. This is not allowed and not saying you are.Your avatar and some comment may appear as such.


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## fapturbo

Wysiwyg said:


> I think the reasoning is because there are re-sellers and spammers that turn up from time to time and try to promote their commercial product. This is not allowed and not saying you are.Your avatar and some comment may appear as such.




Seriously, do you really consider me a spammer?

I have tried hard not to blantantly ramp the product as such and post more about the way it operates and the technical aspects of it.

How does a couple of charts showing the entires and exits promote the product. I'm still confused. Never mind. I will obey the rules.

Do you see me linking to promotional websites or clips etc... As if I could be bothered. I'm merely alerting those that have no idea that such things exist. 

Sure many of these so called EA may well be scams, at the end of the day we are all grown up adults and we all make our own minds up about what is good and what is bad. We all decide to press the buy button or we don't. Same when it comes to buying shares. We all read about this person saying these stocks are good for the following reason..... blah blah blah....

I would rather have a mechanical system that works.

For someone to come out and say something is garbage, this does not work for this reason without even trying the system or even having proof that is does not work is talking garbage in my opinion.

Having clear entries and exits is critical in any system that someone decides to trade. Whether it is Equities Markets or FX Markets. There is software available that you can be used to test systems which have clearly defined entires and exits for equities markets. I use such systems on equities markets also. 







Using those entries and exits and running them through a piece of software and testing them over historical data is one way to develop a system to make sure it has worked in the past. Just because it has worked in the past does not guarantee anything in the future. I know for a fact that I would rather use a system that has been tested over years of data as compared to using a system that has not.

Another way is to develop it over many months or years of forward testing and doing it manually. 

Please tell me is this post considered spam?


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## Wysiwyg

Actually if I had a hidden agenda it would be to find out the truth about EA`s.From the present investigation I`m conducting *the majority of them are* *useless*.But!These useless EA`s can be useful??

The EA`s that open a buy at the top of a trend and open a sell at the bottom of a trend are excellent contrarian signals to enter the market with real money.When the signals open I`m on the lookout for an opposite entry.

Obviously from the EA trading championship it can be seen that (in that comp. time) there are auto-trading systems that work.

Now if anyone with computer programming skills wanted to make some big money they could do no worse than enter a comp. and finish in the top three.a) they could trade their system and make money and b) they could sell their EA to make money passively.(with a 1 month trial option refund of course).


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## Wysiwyg

fapturbo said:


> Seriously, do you really consider me a spammer?




Me .... as most, am interested in genuine EA`s and thus sorting the wheat from the chaff.


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## fapturbo

Wysiwyg said:


> Me .... as most, am interested in genuine EA`s and thus sorting the wheat from the chaff.




Yes there are some who have genuine interest and for very good reasons.

There are also others who just want to say this does not work because this and that without offering any evidence to support their claims etc.


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## fapturbo

I supposed I am spamming by putting these scanning results up also eh?


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## Wysiwyg

For forum rules please refer to the very bottom of  this page re ; Code of Conduct,   ASF Posting Guidelines and Terms of Use.

You will find most of the moderators are rational.


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## fapturbo

Wysiwyg said:


> Fap if you`re still around do you have any forward results or for/against comments on your system since going live.




+67 Pips after three trading days on live account

Trading eurgpb and eurchf pairs, both on 6 Pip Spread.

Is this considered spam? Please let me know....


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## BentRod

Really?

Who with, Go Markets??


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## fapturbo

Just received an email from Go Markets stating that customers using FapTurbo EA will be temporarily unable to make trades.  

Reason given. They are unable to hedge the position.


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## Stormin_Norman

does it get out and in too quickly?

maybe they end up with big spikes in their orders due to the EA and find it difficult to pass them along.


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## white_goodman

Stormin_Norman said:


> does it get out and in too quickly?
> 
> maybe they end up with big spikes in their orders due to the EA and find it difficult to pass them along.




they asked me specifically about FAP when i signed up 2 weeks ago


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## fapturbo

Stormin_Norman said:


> does it get out and in too quickly?
> 
> maybe they end up with big spikes in their orders due to the EA and find it difficult to pass them along.




That much is obvious.

It's ok if orders are entered manually but not if it is done by an EA.

Other EA's are allowed but not this one at the moment.


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## fapturbo

Some trades are open for up to 15+mins before being closed.

So not sure how long it takes to get orders filled....


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## tayser

lol @ GO Markets.

MT4 Bucketshop - too many people making money - what do you expect?


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## Stormin_Norman

FAP turbo's marketing has been so successful that theyve manoeuvred their clients onto a black list.

wonder how many copies are out there being run?

as an aside - go markets. what is their minimum deposit + lot size?


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## fapturbo

Stormin_Norman said:


> FAP turbo's marketing has been so successful that theyve manoeuvred their clients onto a black list.
> 
> wonder how many copies are out there being run?
> 
> as an aside - go markets. what is their minimum deposit + lot size?




They have no minimum account size and they allow 0.01 lot sizes

Supposedly FX market is the most liquid market in the world. What a joke.

I guess the EA works and makes money after all....Scam....blow me....


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## fapturbo

This is a good test for Go Markets.

It is obviously a liquidity problem that they need to sort out.

They apparantly make their money from spreads alone so to them it should not matter.

It is just a matter of getting the orders filled at the quoted prices I suspect


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## Stormin_Norman

fapturbo said:


> They have no minimum account size and they allow 0.01 lot sizes
> 
> Supposedly FX market is the most liquid market in the world. What a joke.
> 
> I guess the EA works and makes money after all....Scam....blow me....




0.01 on a full account? so that's a 1000 order?

maybe it does, but more the problem is having a whole stack of people putting in an order at once. for a smaller broker, especially in OZ it might be hard to get those large spikes farmed out without losing money.


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## tayser

fapturbo said:


> This is a good test for Go Markets.
> 
> It is obviously a liquidity problem that they need to sort out.
> 
> They apparantly make their money from spreads alone so to them it should not matter.
> 
> It is just a matter of getting the orders filled at the quoted prices I suspect




A market making broker makes money from the spread AND trading with/against you.  They are creating the market you trade on (as opposed to an ECN platform which aggregates prices from many market makers (banks)) so they have a lot of control over what you do.  The difference between the two models: ECNs want you to do higher volume so they get more commission, Market Makers want you to do lower volume and set stops/take profits so they know what you're aiming to do so they can hedge by trading the same way or completely against you (you buy, they sell (and do something to your feed in the meantime))...


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## Stormin_Norman

fapturbo said:


> This is a good test for Go Markets.
> 
> It is obviously a liquidity problem that they need to sort out.
> 
> They apparantly make their money from spreads alone so to them it should not matter.
> 
> It is just a matter of getting the orders filled at the quoted prices I suspect




they do make money from the spreads. hence they dont want everyone trading the same type of market, cause its harder to match up and pass off.

brokers are in the market to make money. causing them to lose money means youre not a valued customer; which stands to reason.


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## Stormin_Norman

tayser said:


> A market making broker makes money from the spread AND trading with/against you.  They are creating the market you trade on (as opposed to an ECN platform which aggregates prices from many market makers (banks)) so they have a lot of control over what you do.  The difference between the two models: ECNs want you to do higher volume so they get more commission, Market Makers want you to do lower volume and set stops/take profits so they know what you're aiming to do so they can hedge by trading the same way or completely against you (you buy, they sell (and do something to your feed in the meantime))...




ECNs are just passing your trades to a market maker. everyone are market makers in forex.

bucketshops trade against you. 

non ECN brokers match trades internally, then pass the rest off to a bigger player. the matching up of trades means they dont need to charge you commission as they can make their money matching the spreads.

hence they dont want a big chunk of their clients using the same method, trading at the same time. because they are increasing the risk of losing larger amounts of money between receiving the order and passing it off because of the skewed orders coming in from everyone doing the same thing.

but please. ECNs just pass your trades to another market maker. maybe a larger one which means they can offer slightly better spreads. but they charge for it.

broker's arent out to get you. they just want to make money. they do that through matching trades, not having you lose your money.


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## fapturbo

This must be a breach of some regulation. Not allowing a paticular EA to function but allowing others.... 

I smell a dead fish....


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## Stormin_Norman

fapturbo said:


> This must be a breach of some regulation. Not allowing a paticular EA to function but allowing others....
> 
> I smell a dead fish....




i dont read the fine print, but id imagine they can accept and reject whomever they like.


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## fapturbo

Stormin_Norman said:


> i dont read the fine print, but id imagine they can accept and reject whomever they like.




Yea I bet...


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## MRC & Co

fapturbo said:


> I guess the EA works and makes money after all....Scam....blow me....




You made 67 pips and your EA works?  

Why is it trading in a bucket shop then?  Why not play with the real big boys and move some serious volume........

If your lazy enough to find some free code from a website and think it will be the holy grail, then you have a nice surprise coming!  

Sorry, that is the blatant truth, but I'm sure you will find that out for yourself.


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## pilbara

fapturbo said:


> This must be a breach of some regulation.



the EA was designed to trade between European currencies during Asian trading times.  These are supposed to be quiet times for the currencies, where they trade within a range, but with relatively little liquidity available.  

But now all of a sudden all the brokers start getting hit with exactly the same trades at the same time, so who do they hedge with?  It would be a race between the small brokers to lay off the exposure with a bigger player, otherwise the price will move too much and the small brokers would lose money.

The brokers will patch their market maker software to recognise the FAP Turbo trades and widen the spread at these times.   It will take some time for them to fix their software to beat FAP turbo, so in the meantime they ban the EA.


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## Trembling Hand

Stormin_Norman said:


> non ECN brokers match trades internally, then pass the rest off to a bigger player. the matching up of trades means they dont need to charge you commission as they can make their money matching the spreads.
> 
> broker's arent out to get you. they just want to make money. they do that through matching trades, not having you lose your money.




Don't think so Stormin MM don't hedge by matching then charging a spread. They take the other side and may hedge there overall exposure but mostly they look to take money from the client.


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## fapturbo

Trembling Hand said:


> Don't think so Stormin MM don't hedge by matching then charging a spread. They take the other side and may hedge there overall exposure but mostly they look to take money from the client.




Someone is always trying to take money from somebody else.

Do these so called Market Maker Brokers have the legal right to ban the use of electronic trading methods..

After all isn't this what a market place is supposed to be..


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## Trembling Hand

fapturbo said:


> Do these so called Market Maker Brokers have the legal right to ban the use of electronic trading methods..
> 
> After all isn't this what a market place is supposed to be..




LOL mate its not a market.


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## fapturbo

Trembling Hand said:


> LOL mate its not a market.




Can you please explain why Forex is not a Market?


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## awg

Any companies purpose is to make a profit.

If your business is unprofitable, they may offer less favourable terms, like slower execution, or even decline your business.

The contract you have to sign to get an account allows them various terms, designed to make sure that they dont get skinned.

you might have to move around and adapt


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## Trembling Hand

fapturbo said:


> Can you please explain why Forex is not a Market?




A market is ran by an overseer to enable traders to exchange products under a set of rules that don't benefit one side. The overseer doesn't participate in the trades. (other than commiss)

MM CFDs & FX is a "market" that enables the MM to take the other side of their clients positions under their terms to benefit them, including size, price, time & execution speed. It aint a market. its a JOKE.


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## MRC & Co

Trembling Hand said:


> It aint a market. its a JOKE.




Yeh, they don't get the name 'bucket shop' for no reason!


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## fapturbo

MRC & Co said:


> Yeh, they don't get the name 'bucket shop' for no reason!




Well I guess we shall soon find out once they decide on the new spreads and whether they refuse to let a certain EA trade or not....


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## Stormin_Norman

Trembling Hand said:


> Don't think so Stormin MM don't hedge by matching then charging a spread. They take the other side and may hedge there overall exposure but mostly they look to take money from the client.




that's a bucketshop.

im talking about the reputable brokers out there. o+a being the best of them for retail fx.


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## Stormin_Norman

Trembling Hand said:


> A market is ran by an overseer to enable traders to exchange products under a set of rules that don't benefit one side. The overseer doesn't participate in the trades. (other than commiss)
> 
> MM CFDs & FX is a "market" that enables the MM to take the other side of their clients positions under their terms to benefit them, including size, price, time & execution speed. It aint a market. its a JOKE.




CFD + FX are different. CFD's have a central market. FX doesnt.

every player in FX is a market maker. some are bucketshops which play a game against you. other's make a profit from helping you trade.


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## Trembling Hand

Stormin_Norman said:


> CFD + FX are different. CFD's have a central market. FX doesnt.
> 
> every player in FX is a market maker. some are bucketshops which play a game against you. other's make a profit from helping you trade.




So you know that they hedge your position?? Not take the other side.

What do you mean ECN are MM 

What do you mean CFDs have a central market?


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## fapturbo

Maybe thread title should be Banning FX Robots legal or legit...


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## Stormin_Norman

Trembling Hand said:


> So you know that they hedge your position?? Not take the other side.
> 
> What do you mean ECN are MM
> 
> What do you mean CFDs have a central market?




i know ibFX and OandA use this method.

ECN pass your trades onto a market maker. there is no central market for FX like shares. so everyone makes their own markets whenever two companies meet.

theyre just an aggregator, allowing you to have better spreads usually reserved for bigger players, or the best spread from a couple of bigger market makers.

they then place your order with those market makers for you and charge you to do it.

CFD's are based on the stock market price. they have a base market, FX doesnt.


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## fapturbo

Trembling Hand said:


> So you know that they hedge your position?? Not take the other side.
> 
> What do you mean ECN are MM
> 
> What do you mean CFDs have a central market?




This is the whole reason they are temporarily banning the use of this EA.

They cannot hedge the positions quick enough according to them.

Or so they say. I don't know if this is a liquidity problem with their liquidity provider or if they are just bull****ting and are taking the opposite side on most of these trades.

In which case they are obviously losing money and will take whatever steps they need to, to stop this from happening.

A permanent ban on anyone making money against them using this EA.

Bad side to using a Market Maker....

"Cons:

Because they may trade against you, market makers can present a clear conflict of interest in order execution. 

They may display worse bid/ask prices than what you could get from another market maker or ECN. 

It is possible for market makers to manipulate currency prices to run their customers' stops or not let customers' trades reach profit objectives. 

Market makers may also move their currency quotes 10-15 pips away from other market rates. 

A huge amount of slippage can occur when news is released. Market makers' quote display and order placing systems may also "freeze" during times of high market volatility. 

Many market makers frown on scalping practices and have a tendency to put scalpers on "manual execution", which means their orders may not get filled at the prices they want. "


Pros and Cons when using an ECN Broker..

"Pros:

You can usually get better bid/ask prices because they are derived from several sources. 

It is possible to trade on prices that have very little or no spread at certain times. 

Genuine ECN brokers will not trade against you as they will pass on your orders to a bank or another customer on the opposite side of the transaction. 

Prices may be more volatile, which will be better for scalping purposes. 
Since you are able to offer a price between the bid and ask, you can take on the role as a market maker to other traders on the ECN.


Cons:

Many of them do not offer integrated charting and news feeds. 

Their trading platforms tend to be less user-friendly. 

Because of variable spreads between the bid and the ask prices, it may be more difficult to calculate stop-loss and breakeven points in pips in advance. 

Traders have to pay commissions for each transaction. "


Now when an ECN Broker does finally set up a MT4 System and EAs are running I wonder how many Market Makers will be left....

http://www.atcbrokers.com/index_forexpro.htm


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## fapturbo

" Go Markets FX Update 


Dear Client,



As you may be aware, due to severe illiquidity in the FX markets there have recently been some spread increases. Our risk management team is currently reviewing the market conditions and is looking to reduce spreads on some of the affected pairs shortly.



Please note that due to a review of our hedging policies the use of some Expert Advisor systems have had to temporarily be restricted. The use of FapTurbo will temporarily be made unavailable whilst the review is completed. Once any new systems are in place which allows the use of this particular EA we will inform the necessary clients. Please do not attempt to open any new FAP Turbo trades but existing open trades will of course be allowed to continue until they have been closed. 

We would like to apologise for any inconvenience caused and will attempt to resume normal service as soon as possible.



Should you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact your account manager.



GOMarkets Pty Ltd | Level 16 | 114 William Street | Melbourne | VIC 3000
Free Phone: 1800 88 55 71 | Phone: +61 3 9670 3055 | info@gomarketsaus.com 

If you would like to unsubscribe or change your subscription, please send an e-mail to info@gomarketsaus.com. 

A Product Disclosure Statement for this product is available from GO Markets Pty Ltd and should be considered before deciding to enter into any derivatives transactions also a financial services guide is available by clicking on the following link http://www.gomarketsaus.com/legal_documentation . Derivatives carry a high level of risk to your capital. Only speculate with money you can afford to lose. Derivatives may not be suitable for everyone, so ensure that you fully understand the risks involved, and seek independent advice if necessary. GO Markets Pty Ltd offers general advice only and no consideration will be given to individual investment objectives, financial situation and needs. AFSL 254963 ABN 85 081 864 039 "


They specifically make mention of their hedging policy...


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## tayser

Stormin_Norman said:


> ECNs are just passing your trades to a market maker. everyone are market makers in forex.




Yes I stated that.



			
				Stormin_Norman said:
			
		

> but please. ECNs just pass your trades to another market maker. maybe a larger one which means they can offer slightly better spreads. but they charge for it.




ECN = the market you trade inside is much larger (and is NOT influenced by the broker!!) than any MM model employed by the likes of Oanda, GO Markets or IBFX and thus less likely to employ manipulative tactics in order to get more out of you than just a commission.



			
				Stormin_Norman said:
			
		

> broker's arent out to get you. they just want to make money. they do that through matching trades, not having you lose your money.




Matching trades or straight-through processing is a key ECN characteristic, Oanda may claim they do this, but the lack of market depth casts a shadow over it as they're not exactly being as transparent as how a true ECN is by having Level 2/market depth available in their platforms.

GO Markets so-called "liquidity issues" during Janaury is another way of saying: our dealers/traders are on holidays and we can't keep up with you making so much money at this time.


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## tayser

fapturbo said:


> Or so they say. I don't know if this is a liquidity problem with their liquidity provider or if they are just bull****ting and are taking the opposite side on most of these trades.




Put simply, they are always taking the other side of your trade.  As I've said (and Stormin_norman is confusing the point) the market you trade in when you choose a market making broker is small - it exists ONLY inside that broker's realm and is completely influenced by them.  So when they state they have liqudity issues, they are having problems hedging each position they are a counterparty too - they're not passing trades off into the real interbank market through Currenex, Retuers or Duscacopy, they have dedicated dealers/traders which are actively trading in those markets so as they make just enough/more money to counter the money they lose when you win in their market.

It's an incredibly simple concept, one I don't particularly like but am putting up with it myself until I have enough equity to move to one of the Currenex brokers - THEN you have access to APIs where the broker doesn't give two hoots what strategy you use as they want you to push as much volume through their platform as possible and you actually negotiate commissions *and spreads* and sometimes you can negotiate to have commissions returned to you if you reach certain volume targets.

An ECN broker is going to treat you more as a business partner than any MM will.


----------



## Trembling Hand

Tayser why not use Interactive brokers?


----------



## fapturbo

tayser said:


> Put simply, they are always taking the other side of your trade.  As I've said (and Stormin_norman is confusing the point) the market you trade in when you choose a market making broker is small - it exists ONLY inside that broker's realm and is completely influenced by them.




So are you telling me that Market Maker Brokers like Go Markets only want customers who lose money long term?

Isn't this a self defeating process? Stands to reason that the Broker will eventually lose all it's customers and the Long Term Viability of the Broker is in doubt.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

fapturbo said:


> So are you telling me that Market Maker Brokers like Go Markets only want customers who lose money long term?
> 
> Isn't this a self defeating process? Stands to reason that the Broker will eventually lose all it's customers and the Long Term Viability of the Broker is in doubt.




only bucketshops want you to be losing money, as theyre betting against you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucket_shop_(stock_market)


----------



## white_goodman

fapturbo said:


> So are you telling me that Market Maker Brokers like Go Markets only want customers who lose money long term?
> 
> Isn't this a self defeating process? Stands to reason that the Broker will eventually lose all it's customers and the Long Term Viability of the Broker is in doubt.




they rely on a steady stream of new customers to replace the old ones


----------



## fapturbo

white_goodman said:


> they rely on a steady stream of new customers to replace the old ones




Oh of course they do... because there must be a steady supply of new customers... considering the state the world economy is in....


----------



## Trembling Hand

fapturbo said:


> Oh of course they do... because there must be a steady supply of new customers... considering the state the world economy is in....




Funny, knowing nothing yet knowing all?


----------



## fapturbo

Trembling Hand said:


> Funny, knowing nothing yet knowing all?




You are right. I know nothing of how these Market Makers/Brokers function.

I presume they have a book of open orders. Longs and Shorts for each pair.

As soon as there is an inbalance they must take the opposing side.

Once they take the opposing side because they are after all the Market and they start losing money then by default they will need to do something about it.  Keeping losing traders long term will not be of much use if not many new customers are joining.

That much is obvious.

So do they ban customers who are making money outright? In an attempt to keep the traders who are consistently losing money...


----------



## Trembling Hand

fapturbo said:


> So do they ban customers who are making money outright? In an attempt to keep the traders who are consistently losing money...




Yes. There are a few bucket shops which will not let some people open accounts. And its not because they lost too much $$:


----------



## tayser

Trembling Hand said:


> Tayser why not use Interactive brokers?




poor margin on offer, it's very low and a high value account opening.


----------



## BentRod

Bluddy hell Fap.....looks like you will have to postpone your retirement ol'son :kebab


----------



## pilbara

tayser said:


> poor margin on offer, it's very low and a high value account opening.



IB has 40:1 margin on the major currencies, but is designed for trades over a million dollars (equivalent to 10 standard contracts) so you need a serious balance in your account.  IB with IDEALPRO doesn't work with standard contracts, instead you trade cash in multiples of a minimum order size $25000.  I guess it is similar to the ECN Dukascopy where you need $50000 minimum in your account.


----------



## BentRod

There is hope fap.

The long term strategy still makes a mint doesn't it?


----------



## tom_rhodes

just heard the news from go and had been with odl before them so where now? bit of a shame for my short term scalping fap but at least the long term one is fine.

i also been using forex meta robot on a couple of brokers and they haven't stopped me on that ea AND i been doing much better than fap since using it but its only been 3 weeks so far.


----------



## fapturbo

Seems that with the introduction of a number of EA's that trade the eurgbp and eurchf pairs during the asian session the spreads on most brokers are being set wider as a result.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

fapturbo said:


> So do they ban customers who are making money outright? In an attempt to keep the traders who are consistently losing money...




no. the problem is they get swamped with a massive spike in a position, along with all the other brokers all at once.

25,000 people are running FAP apparently. that means that the small retail market maker gets a massive order, along with their counter parties - making it much harder to pass off these trades as their executed. 

eg they get a massive order from a major amount of clients to sell at 100 all at the same time. they have a normal amount of customers wanting to buy at the 100, far less then the sell side.

they have a 2 pip leeway. usually they take the 200 short orders and the 75 long orders, match them up and take 75 * 2 pip profit. they then pass on the other 125 short orders at a lower spread to a bigger counterparty. they might make 150 pip profit from this example.

now say they get 1000 short orders from FAP all at the same second, and the same 75 long orders. after matching theyre left with 925 short orders to pass through.

there are another 5 brokers all using the same larger counter party. so the counter party gets 4500 short orders all wanting to be placed by the MT4 brokers at the same time @ the 100 price.

the counter party suffers the same problem as the MT4 broker, it cant match and pass on the trades because its another trading spike. so the counter party, if it accepts these trades will raise its price to 103, so it can take the trades and pass them onto other interbanks without losing money by doing so.

so now the sell that the MT4 client made at 100, if accepted by the MT4 broker can only be sold on for a 3 pip loss. a loss for them.

unfortunately for us, broker's arent in the business to lose money on these types of trades.

that is why people say that successful commercial EAs sold for money either dont work, or become victims of their own success.


----------



## fapturbo

Seems like everything you say appears to be coming true...


----------



## MS+Tradesim

fapturbo said:


> Seems like everything you say appears to be coming true...




If the EA is that good, could you run it on a demo account and enter trades manually into a live account with a decent broker?


----------



## fapturbo

MS+Tradesim said:


> If the EA is that good, could you run it on a demo account and enter trades manually into a live account with a decent broker?




Of course. Not the reason you want to use an EA if you are doing it manually though. Anyone can trade the range.

What is really needed is an STP Provider which has fixed spreads or low variable spreads, which allow 0.1 lot size trading and allow scalping. Obviously with MT4.

Remove the middle man who says they cant pass the winning trades onto the Liquiditor Provider or the Interbank Market.

If you find one of those please let me know. These STP providers stand to make a bucket load of cash from commissions if they can effectively integrate MT4 with Interbank Markets.

http://www.100forexbrokers.com/stp-ecn-brokers


----------



## MS+Tradesim

fapturbo said:


> Of course. Not the reason you want to use an EA if you are doing it manually though. Anyone can trade the range.




Then do it, and don't worry about the EA. Or create your own EA which won't suffer the same fate. Why waste energy on an idea that has too many external factors to derail it? 

Making a living in the markets is certainly possible - there's many of us here. But I don't know anyone who does it by deploying a strategy who knows how many others are also using.


----------



## fapturbo

MS+Tradesim said:


> Then do it, and don't worry about the EA. Or create your own EA which won't suffer the same fate. Why waste energy on an idea that has too many external factors to derail it?
> 
> Making a living in the markets is certainly possible - there's many of us here. But I don't know anyone who does it by deploying a strategy who knows how many others are also using.




You obviously are a mechanical trader MS and Tradesim user I presume.

So I presume you like the idea of an EA?

http://forexplatforms.com/swnewstraders.htm


----------



## peter2

"25,000 people are running FAP apparently..." 

At $200 ea I know who is making the most out of this EA. $5 mill to the developers and the only expenses involve creating a few websites and promoting the heck out of the EA with both good and bad publicity. 

This EA has been a staggering marketing success which relied on the viral spread of information throughout the world's trading forums. The Aussie expression "come in spinner" is such an understatement.


----------



## fapturbo

peter2 said:


> "25,000 people are running FAP apparently..."
> 
> At $200 ea I know who is making the most out of this EA. $5 mill to the developers and the only expenses involve creating a few websites and promoting the heck out of the EA with both good and bad publicity.
> 
> This EA has been a staggering marketing success which relied on the viral spread of information throughout the world's trading forums. The Aussie expression "come in spinner" is such an understatement.




Indeed. 

Money making machines are a great tool to sell....


----------



## MS+Tradesim

fapturbo said:


> You obviously are a mechanical trader MS and Tradesim user I presume.
> 
> So I presume you like the idea of an EA?




Well, mechanical to me means objectively defined entry, exit and MM criteria. This may or may not be automated. I have never run a robot or EA yet but I probably will in the future. 

However, I don't believe success comes from using someone else's creation, especially if it is widely available.


----------



## fapturbo

MS+Tradesim said:


> Well, mechanical to me means objectively defined entry, exit and MM criteria. This may or may not be automated. I have never run a robot or EA yet but I probably will in the future.
> 
> However, I don't believe success comes from using someone else's creation, especially if it is widely available.




Have you looked at a company called Home Trader before? (not spamming)

They use Mecahnical Systems to trade equities designed using MS and Tradesim initially. Now they have moved to Amibroker.


----------



## MS+Tradesim

fapturbo said:


> Have you looked at a company called Home Trader before? (not spamming)
> 
> They use Mecahnical Systems to trade equities designed using MS and Tradesim initially. Now they have moved to Amibroker.




I know of Hometrader. There are several threads here relating to them. I can see they would be of use to people who are prepared to pay others to learn about system research and development. Given the cost I would suggest a better use of that amount of money would be to buy the relevant software, a bunch of books about system development and some quality data - *if* mechanical system trading is what someone wants to do. I freely grant that a very good discretionary trader can do extremely well. However, my personality is suited to mechanical so that's what I do.


----------



## fapturbo

MS+Tradesim said:


> I know of Hometrader. There are several threads here relating to them. I can see they would be of use to people who are prepared to pay others to learn about system research and development. Given the cost I would suggest a better use of that amount of money would be to buy the relevant software, a bunch of books about system development and some quality data - *if* mechanical system trading is what someone wants to do. I freely grant that a very good discretionary trader can do extremely well. However, my personality is suited to mechanical so that's what I do.




There is no way the average person could program and backtest a system using either of those pieces of sofware without first going through a huge learning curve.

They are professionals at what they do and have spent alot of time and money developing the systems. Making use of a professional requires capital.

Emotion is a killer when trading. Mechanical Style Trading removes emotion.


----------



## MS+Tradesim

fapturbo said:


> There is no way the average person could program and backtest a system using either of those pieces of sofware without first going through a huge learning curve.
> 
> They are professionals at what they do and have spent alot of time and money developing the systems. Making use of a professional requires capital.




People who require others to do the work for them will never truly succeed. This is the breeding ground for victim mentality. If things go wrong, the individual will not take responsibility, preferring instead to blame some arbitrary external factor.

"I wasn't shown how to do that."
"The market is against me."
"That fund manager lost all my money."
"I can't be bothered to learn what I should know."
"I can't be bothered putting in the time to develop myself."

Some of their customers will move beyond this and learn about what it takes. I would hazard a guess that those same people didn't need the "pros" in the first place.


----------



## fapturbo

MS+Tradesim said:


> People who require others to do the work for them will never truly succeed. This is the breeding ground for victim mentality. If things go wrong, the individual will not take responsibility, preferring instead to blame some arbitrary external factor.
> 
> "I wasn't shown how to do that."
> "The market is against me."
> "That fund manager lost all my money."
> "I can't be bothered to learn what I should know."
> "I can't be bothered putting in the time to develop myself."
> 
> Some of their customers will move beyond this and learn about what it takes. I would hazard a guess that those same people didn't need the "pros" in the first place.




Well of course not.

Someone has to start somewhere.

Might as well start with a professional trader who is doing it for a living and not a fund manager who has the primary objective of making money from you.

If you are going to use something to trade with. Might as well be something that works regardless of the market conditions.

Someone who considers putting capital up to make capital is taking a risk, no matter what the venture. Be it starting a small business selling a product or providing a service. No point doing these things without the proper training.

Going it blind so to speak is suicide.

Scam or not make up your own mind.

If so many people are using a paticular system that takes advantage of a certain thing then yes someone will try to take advantage of that system.

It is the way of the world. All Brokers everywhere would know how it works and they are widening the spreads during the time it trades to do exactly that.

Market Makers/Broker who say they make money from us when we trade from commissions and then ban a paticular EA which is profitable are lying and just want to take your money.

The only real way is to enter orders using STP.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

http://www.pipcop.com

look at how many successful EAs have been independently reviewed and tested over there.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

a site doing live tests of 4 of the most marketed EAs:

started with $250 in an account on Dec1

1st Place: Forex Tracer 
Current equity = $260.90
Last week equity growth = -2.9%
All-contest equity growth (since Dec03 2008) = 4.4%

2rd Place: Forex Auto Pilot 
Current equity = $253.93
Last week equity growth = -7.0%
All-contest equity growth (since Dec03, 2008) = 1.6%

3rd Place: 10PipsPro 
Current equity = $189.44
Last week equity growth = 1.6%
All-contest equity growth (since Dec03, 2008) = -24.2%

4th Place: Steinitz HAS MTF 
Current equity = $59.16
Last week equity growth = -32.2%
All-contest equity growth (since Dec03, 2008) = -76.3%


none look particularly good.


----------



## fapturbo

Any recommendations for an ECN Provider with MT4 platform?

I have a few in mind. Looking for anyone who has used one and wishes to share their experiences.


----------



## tayser

MT4 doesn't support ECN brokers out of the box - you have to find ECN brokers which offer a plug in.  And you'll probably have problems finding one because an ECN offering MT4 is like an Arab airline offering Kosher meals.


----------



## fapturbo

tayser said:


> MT4 doesn't support ECN brokers out of the box - you have to find ECN brokers which offer a plug in.  And you'll probably have problems finding one because an ECN offering MT4 is like an Arab airline offering Kosher meals.




Do you know of any Providers who provide MT4 with STP who don't take the other side, who pass all orders into Interbank Markets. Who only make money from commissions and could not care if you lose or win money?


----------



## fapturbo

Is this outfit a scam set up?

http://www.swissfxbroker.ch/index.html/metatrader.htm


----------



## white_goodman

fapturbo said:


> Do you know of any Providers who provide MT4 with STP who don't take the other side, who pass all orders into Interbank Markets. Who only make money from commissions and could not care if you lose or win money?




does MB trading offer that?


----------



## pilbara

Stormin_Norman said:


> a site doing live tests of 4 of the most marketed EAs:
> 
> started with $250 in an account on Dec1
> 
> 1st Place: Forex Tracer
> Current equity = $260.90
> Last week equity growth = -2.9%
> All-contest equity growth (since Dec03 2008) = 4.4%
> 
> 2rd Place: Forex Auto Pilot
> Current equity = $253.93
> Last week equity growth = -7.0%
> All-contest equity growth (since Dec03, 2008) = 1.6%
> 
> 3rd Place: 10PipsPro
> Current equity = $189.44
> Last week equity growth = 1.6%
> All-contest equity growth (since Dec03, 2008) = -24.2%
> 
> 4th Place: Steinitz HAS MTF
> Current equity = $59.16
> Last week equity growth = -32.2%
> All-contest equity growth (since Dec03, 2008) = -76.3%
> 
> 
> none look particularly good.



what performance levels are you aiming for with your robot?  
I'm trying to develop a robot to achieve:
(a) profit: average of 500 pips a week (100 per day),
(b) longevity: trading EUR/USD continuously throughout the forex 24/5 week, 
(c) drawdown: target of some down days but no down weeks.


----------



## fapturbo

white_goodman said:


> does MB trading offer that?




Yes it is one I am monitoring.

http://www.mbtrading.com/forexCommissionRates.aspx

There is a company here in Australia based in sydney that claim to do STP and make money from commissions. I have installed the demo and they claim that it is exactly the same feed as the live platform. Time to give Go Markets the flick. Unless they can sort out their liquidity problems. It appears they are mostly taking the other side of trades and cannot effectively hedge winning trades into interbank market


----------



## white_goodman

fapturbo said:


> Yes it is one I am monitoring.
> 
> http://www.mbtrading.com/forexCommissionRates.aspx
> 
> There is a company here in Australia based in sydney that claim to do STP and make money from commissions. I have installed the demo and they claim that it is exactly the same feed as the live platform. Time to give Go Markets the flick. Unless they can sort out their liquidity problems. It appears they are mostly taking the other side of trades and cannot effectively hedge winning trades into interbank market




all depends what timeframe i guess, ive still got my GO account for my 4hr and daily timeframe trades... if you need liquidity and reliable spreads and not have ur broker working against you the mb may be the way to go... lots of interest in MB over on forexfactory


----------



## fapturbo

This company looks like the Real Deal.

http://www.forexfs.com/

I have spoken to these guys on the phone and have openned an account.

Minimum Starting Balance is 10k

First trade must be 5 full lot trade

Commission is $22.00 per full lot or $2.20 per 0.1 lot

Scalping EA are allowed

They want volume customers who have experience

Relatively young company only about 18months.

Money is in NAB accounts.

They claim to pass all orders to the Interbank Market and not run a bucket shop.

They already have customers running a paticular EA that trades the asian market times.

What do you think....


----------



## Stormin_Norman

spread of 3 pips on the euro + commission??



> Commission is $22.00 per full lot or $2.20 per 0.1 lot




does that mean $5.20+ per trade on the eurousd? ie about 5 pips?!



> They claim to pass all orders to the Interbank Market and not run a bucket shop.




there are very few bucketshops left in FX. if you understand the FX markets properly you should realise every player worth their salt matches trades and hedges exposure to another player.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

pilbara said:


> what performance levels are you aiming for with your robot?
> I'm trying to develop a robot to achieve:
> (a) profit: average of 500 pips a week (100 per day),
> (b) longevity: trading EUR/USD continuously throughout the forex 24/5 week,
> (c) drawdown: target of some down days but no down weeks.





a. profit = as much as we can achieve.

b. longevity = yes, i dont see the point of baby sitting a EA. might as well trade myself. we will however program the EAs to target sessions and avoid news times using data drawn from online calanders.

c. drawdown = i dont mind drawdown, as long as the returns are there to justify it. low draw down methods can have their lot sizes ramped up. but as long as the drawdown (risk) and the profit (reward) are in good ratio then with sound funds management it should be ok.

eg this screenshot of one of our EAs which is quite aggressive. we have done many new versions of it to improve its risk and i think we're almost there to run it live. in 5 months of testing we've busted only 3 accounts and each time made it less risky as a result of lessons learnt. this is running it on a low balance with a high lot size. atm it can cope with 350 pip movements without a retrace. with more initial funds (or lower lot sizes) it could cope with incrementally more.


----------



## fapturbo

Stormin_Norman said:


> spread of 3 pips on the euro + commission??
> 
> 
> 
> does that mean $5.20+ per trade on the eurousd? ie about 5 pips?!
> 
> 
> 
> there are very few bucketshops left in FX. if you understand the FX markets properly you should realise every player worth their salt matches trades and hedges exposure to another player.




Well someone has to take the order, problem with go markets is they say they cannot effectively enter the orders into the liquidity provider quickly or efficiently enough. For whatever reason. Be it true or not it is irrelevant.

Go Markets claim to be a STP provider which they may well be. However the technical issue of not being able to get orders filled could be because the liquidity provider is not filling their orders or it just could be because there are too many orders to get filled at the time this paticular EA wants to put an order in.

Forex FS claim to be STP also. Which appears to be true. I don't know what sort of liquidity problems they may face. However time will tell.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

program your own EA and theyll take it no dramas.

i rang them up to ask about some EAs we've been doing. some can be quite short term.

i got told, not a drama, as long as theyre not widely available commercial EAs because they mess with their systems when they attempt to pass through trades. which i fully understand why and how they do.


----------



## Wysiwyg

Notice your lot sizes all different storm.Without revealing too much, why is this done and what initiates or determines lot size please?


----------



## fapturbo

Stormin_Norman said:


> program your own EA and theyll take it no dramas.
> 
> i rang them up to ask about some EAs we've been doing. some can be quite short term.
> 
> i got told, not a drama, as long as theyre not widely available commercial EAs because they mess with their systems when they attempt to pass through trades. which i fully understand why and how they do.




I would if I knew how.

I've got quite a few ideas from my testing in equities.

Most important thing is profit to open drawdown ratio.


----------



## pilbara

Wysiwyg said:


> Without revealing too much, why is this done and what initiates or determines lot size please?



With the systems I'm developing, I start with the same initial position, which is increased as the profit targets are met, and gets increased whenever additional entry signals are generated.  It's important to be aggressive with your capital when things are going your way.


----------



## pilbara

Stormin_Norman said:


> a. profit = as much as we can achieve.



yep that's a good plan, especially since you've tested your systems over a long period of time, and have a good idea of what they can do.


----------



## fapturbo

pilbara said:


> With the systems I'm developing, I start with the same initial position, which is increased as the profit targets are met, and gets increased whenever additional entry signals are generated.  It's important to be aggressive with your capital when things are going your way.




What sort of optimizations can you run in Strategy Tester?

Can you run multiple optimizations on the one test?

For example setting a range of variables to test for say example 20-100 Pt Trailing Stops in increments of say 5?


----------



## Wysiwyg

pilbara said:


> With the systems I'm developing, I start with the same initial position, which is increased as the profit targets are met, and gets increased whenever additional entry signals are generated.  It's important to be aggressive with your capital when things are going your way.




Good on you.Pyramiding into winning positions is all fine and dandy until the sudden reversal!


----------



## pilbara

Wysiwyg said:


> Good on you.Pyramiding into winning positions is all fine and dandy until the sudden reversal!



my modelling is based on tick-by-tick data gathered live from the broker, so I think it reflects real market conditions.  It seems to me that there's plenty of time (for a computer) to decide to get out of a trade, even if this time is less than a minute when the market is moving very fast.  Still there needs to be a stop loss order placed for protection at zero profit, just in case the computer or robot crashes while a large sized position is open.


----------



## tayser

fapturbo said:


> This company looks like the Real Deal.
> 
> http://www.forexfs.com/
> 
> I have spoken to these guys on the phone and have openned an account.
> 
> Minimum Starting Balance is 10k
> 
> First trade must be 5 full lot trade
> 
> Commission is $22.00 per full lot or $2.20 per 0.1 lot
> 
> Scalping EA are allowed
> 
> They want volume customers who have experience
> 
> Relatively young company only about 18months.
> 
> Money is in NAB accounts.
> 
> They claim to pass all orders to the Interbank Market and not run a bucket shop.
> 
> They already have customers running a paticular EA that trades the asian market times.
> 
> What do you think....




MBT Charge $5USD per every $100,000USD traded, so a round trip will cost you $10USD if you trade 100,000 USD/JPY for instance.  At the moment, that's roughly 1.35 pips commission to trade EUR/USD, 0.6 pips to trade AUD/USD and 1 pip to trade USD/JPY.  This is generally considered borderline "expensive" compared to other broker commission models.

$22 per 100,000 = *a very bad joke* (worse if it's $22 per 100,000 traded (i.e just to open a position - but remember you have to trade the same amount to close the position)...  

I've been saying it for over a year now, Australia is a backwater for FX brokers, if you want to get low commissions, low spreads and high liquidity you have to use an off-shore broker - FX in Australia is still very much a big boy's (NAB, ANZ, CBA, WBC and MBL) game.


----------



## pilbara

fapturbo said:


> What sort of optimizations can you run in Strategy Tester?
> 
> Can you run multiple optimizations on the one test?
> 
> For example setting a range of variables to test for say example 20-100 Pt Trailing Stops in increments of say 5?



I'm writing java systems to analyze the data I have recorded, which allows a forward-test simulation. 

For example with trailing stops, I first simulate what would happen if there were no stops at all, and let the trade fully develop to maximum then back down to zero.  Then for each trade I know the maximum potential, so I try to model an exit strategy that captures a good part of the potential without holding back the growth of profitable positions.


----------



## Fatcat

Hi
From reading the posts there are obviously some very experienced forex traders out there. Forex is an area I would very much like to learn more about. There appears to be a heap of books and courses out there....many of which I'm sure are rubbish. I would greatly appreciate it if someone could kindly recommend some worthwhile courses/reading on the subject.
Thanks for your assistance.


----------



## tayser

Start here: http://www.moneybags.com.au/default.asp?d=0&t=1&id=5016&c=0&a=74


----------



## macca

Hi Fatcat,

Good site to learn is

http://www.babypips.com/

there are also specialised forums for Forex, just Google


----------



## Stormin_Norman

Wysiwyg said:


> Notice your lot sizes all different storm.Without revealing too much, why is this done and what initiates or determines lot size please?




fibonacci numbers and a type of martingale system which uses signals to indicate when to open the positions. its quite different to most in the sense it doesnt just keep opening positions in increasing sizes; it wait for a new signal before doing so. we have a news limiting section of the EA which will stop it trading at news time; however while testing it we turn it off in an attempt to 'blow' it up and establish its risk parameters.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

pilbara said:


> I'm writing java systems to analyze the data I have recorded, which allows a forward-test simulation.




we're using mt4 atm, more because its a standard then any other reason.

my partner in the venture (the computer coder) would dearly love to switch to java as he thinks is a far superior language to MT4's bastardised C platform.

as for someone else mentioning back tests. in MT4 backtests arent worth all that much chop - even with good quality data. while its a good first test on an EA nothing beats live forward testing.

'optimisation' of EAs is my big bug bear. some people make these hugely complicated EAs with many variables which they backtest and come out with great results after playing with all the variables.

but if you run the EA through a time period it hasnt been tested against, or forward test, the results dont reflect the testing at all.


----------



## Wysiwyg

Stormin_Norman said:


> but if you run the EA through a time period it hasnt been tested against, or forward test, the results dont reflect the testing at all.




The test periods are different so would not the results be different?And fibonacci numbers to determine lot sizes ---  LOL.


----------



## cogs

Has anyone been contacted by www.forexmetarobot.com personnel via email?

Would like to know if anyone is using their product.

Just another Bot I would imagine, will need the three month pipcop trial before I will look deeper.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

Wysiwyg said:


> The test periods are different so would not the results be different?And fibonacci numbers to determine lot sizes ---  LOL.




are you laughing at my fib numbers?!


----------



## Wysiwyg

cogs said:


> Has anyone been contacted by www.forexmetarobot.com personnel via email?
> 
> Would like to know if anyone is using their product.
> 
> Just another Bot I would imagine, will need the three month pipcop trial before I will look deeper.





Now let`s see.We break down the following sentence which states ...



> Forex Meta Robot starts working on any account size, making many trades everyday *it uses a special scalping technique to very quickly double **your account every few days*.




So double your account every few days.  You gotta be skeptical of these things don`t you.And there is none left for sale.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

tom_rhodes said:


> i also been using* forex meta robot* on a couple of brokers and they haven't stopped me on that ea AND i been doing much better than fap since using it but its only been 3 weeks so far.




same one in question?


----------



## pilbara

Wysiwyg said:


> fibonacci numbers to determine lot sizes ---  LOL.



I have found a similar thing in testing, where it's not good enough to use a linear increase in lot sizes when additional entry signals are generated.  However a fully exponential (martingale) increase is too steep, so a curve which has a slower rate of exponential increase at the beginning like the fibonacci sequence might be a better way to go.


----------



## pilbara

Stormin_Norman said:


> 'optimisation' of EAs is my big bug bear. some people make these hugely complicated EAs with many variables which they backtest and come out with great results after playing with all the variables.
> 
> but if you run the EA through a time period it hasnt been tested against, or forward test, the results dont reflect the testing at all.



yep I agree.  Howard Bandy's book gives good advice on this, regarding In-Sample and Out-of-Sample data.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

how is his book? a worthwhile acquisition?


----------



## pilbara

I've found the book worthwhile, it is comprehensive and is written with a unique perspective which is valuable to someone like me who hasn't got experience in this field. It sounds like you have a lot more experience and are already a long way down the track so maybe the book will be too introductory.


----------



## pippin

tom_rhodes said:


> i also been using forex meta robot on a couple of brokers and they haven't stopped me on that ea AND i been doing much better than fap since using it but its only been 3 weeks so far.




Tom, what is your experience with Forex Meta Robot so far. Is it as amazing as the creators are claiming? Do you have to nanny it so it works or is it a true set and forget?

Thanks 
P


----------



## cogs

Tom,

This comment seems quite timely with the "new batch release" coming up.

forexmetarobot website is in infant stage as with their forum (hasn't opened yet). They are making bold claims on very limited testing and won't release information on so called "previous users".

Quite frankly I have my doubts.

Tom, would you like to post (share) some profit details?


----------



## cogs

For those of you who have been contacted by forexmetarobot.com .

I apologise in advance for the long winded posting and if they are legit they need to be more transparent.

Apparently their "latest batch" of Forex Meta Robots have just come on sale?????

*First email received details:*


> We are delighted to announce that the next LIMITED batch of Forex Meta Robots is available for sale.
> 
> As promised you have 24 hours before the public release to purchase.
> 
> To buy Forex Meta Robot please follow this link and select BUY NOW:
> 
> http ://www.forexmetarobot.com/earlyrelease/
> 
> We almost TREBLED our trading account last week with this robot!
> 
> We expect to sell out very quickly, so to avoid being disappointed please act quickly.
> 
> Kind Regards
> 
> The Forex Meta Robot Team.




*I replied:*


> What about a demo and installation instructions?
> 
> Who am I talking to anyway?
> 
> You need to prove some credibilty that this isn't a scam.




*He replied:*


> The demo and installation manual are accessed after you pay.
> 
> 
> It is not a scam but of course you have no way of knowing this.




*I replied:*


> So you wont provide a name which is normal good business practice?
> 
> I am possibly interested in your robot but you need to be a little more transparent.
> 
> Here are your hosting details so it is very easy to find out who you are, also I am a very active member on various Australian Stock Market and trading forums so you really need to be open and honest to get some sales on this.




*He replied:*


> We are keen to protect our privacy as we are not an individual but a team of developers spread across the USA, UK, Australia and New Zealand. I can give you my details but I am only part of the support and forum team (we have our own forum for clients). Who are you keen to have the details of? Our top developer?




*I replied:*


> I am not interested in 'your top developer' or even your bottom developer or any of your coding or algo's.
> 
> If you are attempting to selling such products you must be aware of the number of forex scams out there. It is only good common business practice to use your own name and establish good communication with clientel as every honest business does.
> 
> Anyone can set up a spreadsheet duplicating MT4 results.
> 
> Your website is basic and not extensive with information about the product, it also has errors. "we have our own forum for clients". Where are they then?



*
And finally they replied:*


> Thanks for your feedback, we will take it into consideration.




I have been communicating loosely with the individual who set this up. They won't release their name or provide any details of the company so I have made some basic initial enquiries. It is easy to trace the inidvidual from here.

forexmetarobot.com details:
Registration Service Provided By: AussieHQ Pty Ltd 
Contact: domains@aussiehq.com.au 

Domain name: forexmetarobot.com 

IP Address:  203.88.123.14 
Administrative Contact: 
AussieHQ Pty Ltd 
Domain Hostmaster (domains@aussiehq.com.au) 
+61.261639350 
Fax: +61.261639333 
PO Box 3168 
Weston Creek, ACT 2611 
AU 

Technical Contact: 
AussieHQ Pty Ltd 
Domain Hostmaster (domains@aussiehq.com.au) 
+61.261639350 
Fax: +61.261639333 
PO Box 3168 
Weston Creek, ACT 2611 
AU 

Registrant Contact: 
AussieHQ Pty Ltd 
Domain Hostmaster () 

Fax: 
PO Box 3168 
Weston Creek, ACT 2611 
AU 

Status: Locked 

Name Servers: 
ns1-alpha.aussiehq.net.au 
ns2-alpha.aussiehq.net.au 

Creation date: 10 Nov 2008 05:33:07 
Expiration date: 10 Nov 2009 05:33:07


----------



## Stormin_Norman

for $150 im tempted just to get a copy to test it and see if its what its cracked up to be.


----------



## cogs

Yeah I thought similar stormin, but times by how many these/this guy emailed and he is replying on just that thought. Cheap enough to not care about but enough to make him a nice little packet if he emailed enough to get sucked in.

Hey I would still buy it now if they/he proved his honesty and legitimacy but it is becoming more and more likely a scam. 

Not a thing until you pay the cash.


----------



## pilbara

cogs said:


> ... if they are legit they need to be more transparent ...



they make wild claims about profit but it sounds like they are undercapitalized and cannot make enough money with their own robot? Or maybe the robot relys on times when the market isn't volatile, and if there are too many of them working at the same time this will take away their edge?


----------



## pilbara

Stormin_Norman said:


> we will however program the EAs to target sessions and avoid news times using data drawn from online calanders.



Do you avoid news times because of bad execution during times of high volatility? Or does the robot prefer less volatile times?  

In my back testing it seems there's potential profit to be made in the highly volatile times but I'll need to confirm whether these are due to "fantasy fills",  that can never be duplicated in live trading during these periods.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

price reversals. large price reversals.


----------



## PipCop

Stormin_Norman said:


> for $150 im tempted just to get a copy to test it and see if its what its cracked up to be.



Hi,

Just an FYI - I've contacted them and they have agreed to give me a free demo of their software which I will be reviewing.  I'll load it up on 3-5 demo accounts at once and let it run for 90 days.  If it works out well, then I will put it on a live account.  So ... I would say save your money for now.

I'll warn all of you, though, Stormin Norman has found my site to be biased towards other robots, so take any information with a grain of salt, and of course do your homework prior to making a purchase or believing any data on forex robots.

And, Stormin, I just happened to find this site while Googling my site name to see who was talking about the site, so please don't think I am stalking you!  Just Google it and you'll see!  

-James Fullerton


----------



## Stormin_Norman

its just hard to be an independent reviewer while offering EAs for sale and taking commissions from the authors.


----------



## pilbara

PipCop said:


> Just an FYI - I've contacted them and they have agreed to give me a free demo of their software which I will be reviewing.  I'll load it up on 3-5 demo accounts at once and let it run for 90 days.  If it works out well, then I will put it on a live account.  So ... I would say save your money for now.



I checked your site and it looks like you've recently set up FAP Turbo on 4 demo accounts.  It will be worth watching the progress of these, to see if brokers make a difference to performance.


----------



## BentRod

Stormin_Norman said:


> its just hard to be an independent reviewer while offering EAs for sale and taking commissions from the authors.




Yep.

Must be worth a few hundred/Thousand a Month?

How much you making Jimbo?

PS....any relation to Fapy??:


----------



## PipCop

Stormin_Norman said:


> its just hard to be an independent reviewer while offering EAs for sale and taking commissions from the authors.



True.  But it is impossible to publish the info for free, without sufficient funding for live accounts, and buy robots that are not available for free.  Of all the review sites out there, I am striving to be the most transparent.  I do clearly post how revenue is made as the first link on the site (What does PipCop do?) up on the top left corner.

I sure wish I could make a few thousand a month, but I don't see that happening any time soon!

And no, I'm not affiliated with Fapy (who's that?).  I'm a one-man show.  I also used to own rs25.com (sold it in 2007) but I have stayed on as an admin, so you can find me around.  I also run friendzoned.com, a relationship advice site!


----------



## Stormin_Norman

if the EAs are successful, shouldnt they provide the revenue in their own right?

i mean you get the EAs and deposit money for nothing, from donations. the returns on any successful EAs should be compensation enough.

being a referrer is just ruining the whole basis of the site.


----------



## PipCop

Stormin_Norman said:


> if the EAs are successful, shouldnt they provide the revenue in their own right?
> 
> i mean you get the EAs and deposit money for nothing, from donations. the returns on any successful EAs should be compensation enough.
> 
> being a referrer is just ruining the whole basis of the site.



Again, true.  However, have you looked at my previous live reviews?  (I've only done 3 total so far).  

The first one (Zig and Zag) wiped out the ENTIRE account and left me with $0.25 (a $49.75 loss).
The second one (Super Sniper) has lost $0.18, and has a closed P/L of -$13.26.
The third one has made $2.75 but has $10.29 drawdown.

Edit: I should add, these are micro accounts, so profits are along the lines of $0.25 for a good trade.  No one is getting rich that way.

So ... with my negative or tiny cashflow from live accounts & robots ... how _exactly_ am I going to fund those accounts and buy more robots?    Your math is funny.

Of course only time will tell if any are winners.  I doubt many will be, but if one is a winner then sure, more money to run the site.

I am surprised that you actually believe that the majority of robots will make me money, when my 40 or so reviews show that 99% are losers.  If these robots are so successful ... why would we be testing them?  Why are YOU offering to buy that robot and test it?  :lol:


----------



## Stormin_Norman

PipCop said:


> Of course only time will tell if any are winners.  I doubt many will be, but if one is a winner then sure, more money to run the site.
> 
> I am surprised that you actually believe that the majority of robots will make me money, when my 40 or so reviews show that 99% are losers.




i dont beleive theyll make money. hence my surprise @ offering them for sale + getting the commission.

i guess have a look at referring people to brokers and their introduction fees. that wouldnt compromise the aims of your site.


----------



## PipCop

That's a good idea, I'll check into that.  Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## Wysiwyg

Hi fap.,  has the issue with your broker been resolved?Have you run it lately?


----------



## fapturbo

Wysiwyg said:


> Hi fap.,  has the issue with your broker been resolved?Have you run it lately?




I'm still waiting before I decide to move to another broker.

Go Markets might be a Bucket Shop or they may not. Least I can do is give them a chance to sort out their alleged Liquidity Problems.

Until then manual trading as per usual.


----------



## fapturbo

I'm going to forward test this EA on demo for a while to test it.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

fapturbo said:


> I'm still waiting before I decide to move to another broker.
> 
> Go Markets might be a Bucket Shop or they may not. Least I can do is give them a chance to sort out their alleged Liquidity Problems.
> 
> Until then manual trading as per usual.




ive been using go markets for about a month now.

been running simultaneously with IBFX and havent noticed any differences or problems.

the problem they have is with people all ordering at the same time because of the widespread use of the EA. like many have said, successful EAs cannot be sold as they become victims of their own success; as is the case.


----------



## fapturbo

Stormin_Norman said:


> ive been using go markets for about a month now.
> 
> been running simultaneously with IBFX and havent noticed any differences or problems.
> 
> the problem they have is with people all ordering at the same time because of the widespread use of the EA. like many have said, successful EAs cannot be sold as they become victims of their own success; as is the case.




Ya I understand that.

Finding a provider to take the orders is the major problem. "IF" they can rectify the situation then all good. Maybe they will come up with something. Maybe they wont. It's all about finding a provider who will take the orders. 

Wide spreads is a problem also for scalping EA like this one where the range is very narrow. 

Successful EA it is. Strategy is sound and proven to work. That is not the issue.

It is the Liquidity Providers that is the problem. Not the 25,000 customers who are trying to trade it. 

Obviously the orders need to be filled somewhere. If there is a problem due to too many orders trying to be filled around the same time then so be it. Not much can do about it.

Slippage in prices and requotes should occur until order is filled.

Not this blanket banning of the EA.

If the customers using the EA were affecting the Market as you suggest then it would surely show up on the Charts right?


----------



## Stormin_Norman

i would be surprised if retail trading moved the market very much at all, given the size of the institutional players needing to move currency around the world.


----------



## Punisher

*Robots*

Has anyone had any success with Robominer or any other trading Bot? There seems to be a lot of talk on forums sites about trading "bots". Half the respondents claim they are scams and the other half swear by them. Does anyone have any proof that they are trading successfully or losing their bank by using these Bots?


----------



## Agentm

*Re: Robots*

the answer of course is

beep


----------



## SlideLow

*Re: Robots*



Punisher said:


> Has anyone had any success with Robominer or any other trading Bot? There seems to be a lot of talk on forums sites about trading "bots". Half the respondents claim they are scams and the other half swear by them. Does anyone have any proof that they are trading successfully or losing their bank by using these Bots?




Punisher

for the past couple of weeks i've been testing a free EA i DL from forex-tsd on a demo Go Markets account. It showing to be slightly profitable. The main issue i have found with it is that it will win a number of small trades but doesn't seem to know when to set a stop loss.

Eg. 1st week.

start Monday 3 000, 
on Thursday night the acc had around 3300 in it.
on That Friday night it had only 3100.

So for the week it made only 100. I spose that is still good for doing nothing but the 200+ was lost on a sing trade. 

The same issue happened this week as well.
 on Wednesday night the acc was around 3500 but this morning it ACC was around 3180. two big losses and almost wiped the weeks profits.

This was a free EA so money management of a commercial one might be better but the more an EA gets known the fewer brokers allow you to trade it.


----------



## wabbit

Punisher,

I use a couple of FX methods, one of them is an EA which makes "regular" profits BUT uses an exceptionally risky management strategy (it can lose an entire account in one session, hence it is not a system for everyone!)

There are some different EAs that make profits: some use extreme risk profiles (like mine does) whilst others are more conservative.  I don't believe any use anything mathematically exotic and the presence of insights into the markets is very rare; most EAs I have seen use some very common concepts in a variety of ways.  For example the "original" FAP AutoPilot is basically Bill Williams Alligator trading system with an extra moving average thrown in as a "trend" filter (i.e. it uses 4 moving averages, or so) and some other basic indicators for "confirmation".

There is nothing stopping anyone writing their own EA with their own risk profile and trade management incorporated.  I have learned a lot more about trading by writing my own algorithms than I did by discretionary trading over the years.  Learning another programming language is added bonus!  Having bought a few FX products in the past, I wont be buying any more in the future.


Hope this helps.

wabbit 

P.S. Please don't ask for a copy of my EAs to borrow, copy, buy etc as there are not for distribution.


----------



## AbundantIncome

been testing some free EA found on the net.. initially some went all the way close to zero in testing

others were profit for a few days or weeks but later on get down to half the initial capital ...

i think there is no silver bullet and am sticking with manual stuff atm , at least we have control where things go


----------



## Stormin_Norman

wabbit said:


> P.S. Please don't ask for a copy of my EAs to borrow, copy, buy etc as there are not for distribution.




what? not even for $197 this month only?

btw i just noticed u sent a message to my 'spam' email address. i posted the code for the account equity analyser in the bunjip thread.


----------



## wabbit

Yup got it, thanks.

wabbit


----------



## babka

*Forex*

Would anybody be trading Forex and have had an experience trading using FAP Turbo Robot???


----------



## CanOz

*Re: Forex*



babka said:


> Would anybody be trading Forex and have had an experience trading using FAP Turbo Robot???




I can just imagine where this thread is headed now!

CanOz


----------



## BentRod

*Re: Forex*



> Would anybody be trading Forex and have had an experience trading using FAP Turbo Robot???




As a matter of fact yes.

We actually have FAPTURBO himself on this forums!!


----------



## CanOz

*Re: Forex*



BentRod said:


> As a matter of fact yes.
> 
> We actually have FAPTURBO himself on this forums!!




Imagine that! What are the chances!!! 

CanOz


----------



## Trembling Hand

*Re: Forex*



CanOz said:


> I can just imagine where this thread is headed now!
> 
> CanOz




Yep and it deserves it too. utthedoor:


----------



## sails

*Re: Forex*



babka said:


> Would anybody be trading Forex and have had an experience trading using FAP Turbo Robot???




LOL - have you tried using the search button on ASF???

This thread is not even subtle....


----------



## BentRod

*Re: Forex*



Trembling Hand said:


> Yep and it deserves it too. utthedoor:




Actually this might be a genuine question from Babka 

@Babka....Fapturbo has been discussed in the Forex section of ASF.

To cut a long story short:

Wide stops+small profit targets=broke, don't waste your time.

The developers launched fapturbo in Nov last year and from what I have heard have already sold 5 million $AU worth.

The $$$ is in selling the dream, not in using Fapturbo.

If Fap worked why would you sell it???

You wouldn't!


----------



## electronicmaster

I have tried Fapturbo out on a live account.  

I started with a $500.00 USD account with FXDD.  I tryed it first using a demo account first just to see how it works.  FapTurbo will refund your money if you don't think it is working as you expected within 60 days.


Anyhow.  I have results on my personal webpage. 

So far I have nearly made a Gross Profit of $352.37 in two weeks using a modified long term strategy.  The scalpers do work but the spread is way to high to make it worth while with most currency pears.

I did over trade by the way, just after I posted the outcome another 20 trades opened just before a freak price spike on that Friday night.  And to make matters worse I panicked and opened another trade (that lost me $75.00 USD).  That was due to the fact that I had run out of margin, and so the broker closed all trades.  

I lost a total of $211.00 USD that night.  $630.94 - $211.00 = $419.94.

How did I over trade?   I had 4 long term FapTurbo robots set to open up a maximum of 10 trades each.  Each trade is meant to open every 60 minutes if FapTurbo thinks it is good to trade.  

So that is my fault since the FapTurbo money management system does not take into effect that if it has more then one robot running at the same time on the same account. 

Opps.  That teaches me to be a cowboy.  yea haw lol.

I was expecting that to happen too.  I had money on standby to inject back into my account if that did happen.

So please see attached for the latest results.

PS:  Fapturbo does not open trades at the same pip.  Each trade will differ by 2 to 5 pips depending on the lot size used and/or the  LotsRiskReductor setup.  

Also, Fapturbo has a Scalper_StealthMode setting that protects you from cheating on the broker side.
That would be why Gomarkets won't be able to do anything about the scalper.


----------



## juw177

Guys, the only trading robots that work are the arbitrage systems used by the big investment houses to skim a few ticks when an opportunity arises.


----------



## BentRod

Mate your not trading futures
Might want to change your website.:

Can you post the closed trades?

Good to see some real account results at least , some guys think running it on demo yields  the same results as a real account.


----------



## electronicmaster

BentRod said:


> Mate your not trading futures
> Might want to change your website.:
> 
> Can you post the closed trades?
> 
> Good to see some real account results at least , some guys think running it on demo yields  the same results as a real account.




Fixed, thanks


----------



## electronicmaster

electronicmaster said:


> Fixed, thanks



As requested. Here is the *Statement* at this time.

EDIT: Also note that I have closed one trade that was going on for too long and had a Silver trade in there too that did not go as planed.  

I've updated the statement to add more details (with chart ...) too.


----------



## BentRod

juw177 said:


> Guys, the only trading robots that work are the arbitrage systems used by the big investment houses to skim a few ticks when an opportunity arises.




You sure about that?

Traders that adapt them to market conditions can make money.
Checkout Norms Bunjip thread.



> As requested. Here is the Statement at this time.




Thanks EM.

Good luck with it mate


----------



## Stormin_Norman

juw177 said:


> Guys, the only trading robots that work are the arbitrage systems used by the big investment houses to skim a few ticks when an opportunity arises.




i beg to differ.

just cause theyre not out there to be bought for $199 doesnt mean theyre not out there!

re: FAPTURBO - id believe the opinion if it wasnt a sales pitch with attached referral link to purchase said EA.

it was making loses for me even on demo. itd go fine then bust up. ive looked at the code behind it. its quite simple. PM me if you want to see what's under its hood.


----------



## Trembling Hand

electronicmaster said:


> As requested. Here is the *Statement* at this time.
> 
> EDIT: Also note that I have closed one trade that was going on for too long and had a Silver trade in there too that did not go as planed.
> 
> I've updated the statement to add more details (with chart ...) too.




Well done for putting up the statements but WTF!!

Avg win 3 to avg loss 12.8.

Is this a friggin joke!


----------



## electronicmaster

Trembling Hand said:


> Well done for putting up the statements but WTF!!
> 
> Avg win 3 to avg loss 12.8.
> 
> Is this a friggin joke!




Most of that is due to human intervention.  The way I have set it all up to the amount of capital I had used in the first place.

And I made one manual trade.

You can't use the long term strategy if you only have $500 or $800 USD, you can only use the scalping strategy that currently won't work with high spreads up to 8, 9, 10 and 11. (It is set up to have a stop loss of 500 pips)

And I don't have $10,000.00 USD risk capital for any EA.

That is why I have played around with the long term strategy so it trades almost like a scalper.  Give it two weeks and well see if it does any good from here.


----------



## electronicmaster

This is a post I found on the member forums that details the settings I have tried out myself:-

OK, the settings I am using now on my live account are (if not mentioned, they are default):

LRR: 1  (can use 2 or 3 but it gets really risky)
MaxOrders: 10  
StopTime: 60  (Helps spread out each of the ten trades by 60 minutes) 
TP: 50  (or whatever you like,  I use 50 or 20)
SL: 0 (but with the understanding you will take care of your own trades and close them manually if necessary)
TS: 15

CloseXMonths: 0 (if you leave this on, all your trades will close on the first of each month at midnight. YUCK!)

CloseMrktChange: 1

And more to try out as well as the above from the same post:-

CloseMrktChange: 0  <- I have not tried this.
Prudent: 1 <- I have not tried this.

SpanGator: 5 <- I have not tried this.

Lot size depends on how much capital you have to trade with.  I have to use 0.01 or 0.02.   If I had $3000.00 to $5000.00 USD, I would use 0.10 lots.  If I had 10,000.00 USD I would use 1.00 lots or more.  In any case, you can increase the lot size when you have more capital to play with.


----------



## Wysiwyg

electronicmaster said:


> You can't use the long term strategy if you only have $500 or $800 USD, you can only use the scalping strategy that currently won't work with high spreads up to 8, 9, 10 and 11. (It is set up to have a stop loss of 500 pips)
> 
> And I don't have $10,000.00 USD risk capital for any EA.
> 
> That is why I have played around with the long term strategy so it trades almost like a scalper.  Give it two weeks and well see if it does any good from here.




Doubling your account every few weeks should see you up there fairly quickly.:


----------



## Stormin_Norman

electronicmaster said:


> This is a post I found on the member forums that details the settings I have tried out myself:-
> 
> OK, the settings I am using now on my live account are (if not mentioned, they are default):
> 
> LRR: 1  (can use 2 or 3 but it gets really risky)
> MaxOrders: 10
> StopTime: 60  (Helps spread out each of the ten trades by 60 minutes)
> TP: 50  (or whatever you like,  I use 50 or 20)
> SL: 0 (but with the understanding you will take care of your own trades and close them manually if necessary)
> TS: 15
> 
> CloseXMonths: 0 (if you leave this on, all your trades will close on the first of each month at midnight. YUCK!)
> 
> CloseMrktChange: 1
> 
> And more to try out as well as the above from the same post:-
> 
> CloseMrktChange: 0  <- I have not tried this.
> Prudent: 1 <- I have not tried this.
> 
> SpanGator: 5 <- I have not tried this.
> 
> Lot size depends on how much capital you have to trade with.  I have to use 0.01 or 0.02.   If I had $3000.00 to $5000.00 USD, I would use 0.10 lots.  If I had 10,000.00 USD I would use 1.00 lots or more.  In any case, you can increase the lot size when you have more capital to play with.




ill have another test with those settings. thanks for sharing 

that works on the 'long term' FAP strategy?


----------



## electronicmaster

Stormin_Norman said:


> ill have another test with those settings. thanks for sharing
> 
> that works on the 'long term' FAP strategy?




Correct. It is only used on long term FAP.

I'm hoping it will be my bail out plan that everyone is getting (for stuffing up) these days.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

some might find this file interesting:

http://www.4shared.com/dir/13166309/67d975b6/EAs.html


----------



## electronicmaster

Live *Statement update* for today.


----------



## Trembling Hand

electronicmaster How do you get a 88% win rate?


----------



## electronicmaster

Trembling Hand said:


> electronicmaster How do you get a 88% win rate?




143 total trades divided by 126 profit trades multiplied by 100 = 88.11%

lol, just kidding.

I had only used the *values* I had found at the member forums.

Then you have to ignore what the trades are doing.  Most of the time the trades look like they are going in the wrong direction.  But in time they come back down for a nice take profit or a trailing stop loss.

In general, Fap trades along with the long term trend.   Currently the EURUSD currency pair is trending down long term.

EDIT:  Some trades can go on for days before it makes money.  If the trade lasts for over 2 weeks, then cancel the order at the lowest loss.  I had to do that with one trade and was lucky to only loss around $7.00 USD.  But you could just leave it in there, it might just do ok.

EDIT2: remember that I only mod the Fap (long term) strategy because the scalpers strategy won't work that well with extremely high spreads of up to 11.  Some currency pair spreads are down to 5 and 6 today.  So I might get a lucky scalp in there later on this week.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

that's impressive setting changes.


----------



## Trembling Hand

So let me get this straight. You have a 20- 50 pip target on an order that open for weeks and no stop in place?


----------



## electronicmaster

Trembling Hand said:


> So let me get this straight. You have a 20- 50 pip target on an order that open for weeks and no stop in place?




That is correct, but it is normally one or two trades that can stay open for weeks.   Most trades tend to make profit within 3 days or less.

No stop loss is used because in my case I only have a capital under $5K USD.  You can put one in at say 500 to 600 pips, but if you have a freak price spike?  you can lose a lot of money in one hit.  And the market can spike from time to time especially these days.   I try to trust the long term trends unless it changes.  So keep an eye out for the long term trend changes. 

I have two Fap  (long term) robots running in two different chart windows that is trading the same EURUSD currency pairs.  One has a TP of 20.00 with lots of 0.01.  And the other is set up to have a TP of 50.00 with lots of 0.02 (I have now changed the lots to 0.05 with prudent enabled).

So far all is doing ok.  

I have my first scalp today with USDCAD (still currently scalping).  Hopefully it will do good.


----------



## Timmy

Trembling Hand said:


> So let me get this straight. You have a 20- 50 pip target on an order that open for weeks and no stop in place?






electronicmaster said:


> That is correct




Oh god ... gobsmacked ... speechless ... 
What's the emoticon for a bellylaugh?

When I recover I promise to post something positive.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

what if the market never comes back?


----------



## Trembling Hand

electronicmaster said:


> No stop loss is used because in my case I only have a capital under $5K USD.



Mate this is one of the silliest things I have herd!!

Did you sim this idea. Or test it in any way? Got a guess at your MAE? do you know what happens when trends end? They swing violently in the other direction!


----------



## electronicmaster

Stormin_Norman said:


> what if the market never comes back?




CloseMrktChange: 1  setting will close out the orders if market trend changes.  That's way I have really low lots of 0.01 or 0.02 (now 0.05).


----------



## Stormin_Norman

Stormin_Norman said:


> what if the market never comes back?






electronicmaster said:


> CloseMrktChange: 1  setting will close out the orders if market trend changes.  That's way I have really low lots of 0.01 or 0.02 (now 0.05).




what loss are u looking at generally in that case? it could be quite substantial; will it be covered by the profits from the other trades?


----------



## Timmy

electronicmaster said:


> No stop loss is used because in my case I only have a capital under $5K USD.  You can put one in at say 500 to 600 pips, but if you have a freak price spike?  you can lose a lot of money in one hit.  And the market can spike from time to time especially these days.   I try to trust the long term trends unless it changes.  So keep an eye out for the long term trend changes.




Fortunately, while you are trading only with a small capital base you cannot do yourself too much harm (apart from wiping out what little capital you do have, or hopefully, stopping what you are doing when you get a string of losses).  But your “no stop loss” approach will not translate into a workable strategy when, and if, you begin to trade with meaningful capital.  You are learning some very damaging habits.


----------



## mattlaw

I am only new at this trading stuff. But shouldnt you trade with the same style whether it is $5k or $50k. As in if you have a system that works with $5k i am assuming it would also work with $50k. 

If in the future you have $50k to trade with will you then change your system and use a stop loss?


----------



## electronicmaster

Trembling Hand said:


> Mate this is one of the silliest things I have herd!!
> 
> Did you sim this idea. Or test it in any way? Got a guess at your MAE? do you know what happens when trends end? They swing violently in the other direction!




I have tested this on a $3K demo account and it made me $200.00 short of 1K USD profit, with the most loss in a single trade being no more than $15.00 USD.  Fap can close out trades if it thinks it has traded for to long by itself without costing you too much draw down (so the FapTurbo support people say)

I have never looked at using a MAE to help me set up a stop loss before.  That might be a good idea.

This is the setting I have been depending on for that sort of change:- 
CloseMrktChange: 1


This is indeed the test of tests.  Nothing bets live


----------



## electronicmaster

Stormin_Norman said:


> what loss are u looking at generally in that case? it could be quite substantial; will it be covered by the profits from the other trades?




I have not made that much of a loss with the demo accounts, but I have made a lot more profits than losses.

As you have already seen with the live statement,  the worst loss (due to my error of over trading) is around $75.00 USD on a single trade.

Lets see how much more cash I'm going to make or brake today 

I will keep updating the statement.


----------



## electronicmaster

Timmy said:


> Fortunately, while you are trading only with a small capital base you cannot do yourself too much harm (apart from wiping out what little capital you do have, or hopefully, stopping what you are doing when you get a string of losses).  But your “no stop loss” approach will not translate into a workable strategy when, and if, you begin to trade with meaningful capital.  You are learning some very damaging habits.




I do agree, and the approach used without a stop loss is a concern.  I will look into TH advise of using the MAE to determine a good stop loss for all trades.

It is better to be safe than sorry.  After all, it is taking forever to make a dollar here or there with these trades.   But it is better than no trades at all.

I will look into it.


----------



## Trembling Hand

electronicmaster said:


> I do agree, and the approach used without a stop loss is a concern.  I will look into TH advise of using the MAE to determine a good stop loss for all trades.
> But it is better than no trades at all.



No that is not at all what I'm suggesting. I was trying to get a gauge as to how long you hold trades that go against you. But it would make no diff to you. When you do the wrong thing and it works out right it just reinforces your incorrect actions ... until it ends in tears.


electronicmaster said:


> But it is better than no trades at all.



 BS. Trading incorrectly is never the way to go. IMO.


----------



## MS+Tradesim

I have some of my own ideas that I want to turn into EAs but I know zilch about MT4 and MQL4.

Would any of you MT4 guys mind having a look at this info and advising if it is a helpful place to start learning? 

http://www.metatrader.info/node/34

Thanks in advance.


----------



## wabbit

Not a bad place to start learning, but it's mostly extracted directly from the MT4 MetaEditor help files anyway.

I still the best way to learn is to have a project in your mind and keep researching each time you hit a hurdle.

If you're going to be writing EA's, I think the best thing to do first is to find an existing EA which you can use as a template (or write your own from scratch) that will contain all of the functions you normally use, such as placing and closing orders, money management, moving stops etc and make this YOUR template.  Then you can simply add the trading logic to it, whenever you change your logic, you don't need to change all of the engine room stuff.

The MT4 help files are very good, although most people never read them!


wabbit


----------



## MS+Tradesim

Wabbit,

Thanks for the feedback. That's kind of what I had in mind. However, looking at some of the EAs at FF there seem to be many files involved and I don't know where to start in terms of why a given EA might need so many files, so I still need to learn the basics about the platform and it how interacts with indicators, scripts and data etc.

Is there a freely available EA (system irrelevant as long as all the necessary factors are covered) that you could recommend I start with as a beginning template?

Thanks.


----------



## macca

MS+T,

Go to post 182, Norman has posted a link, just download that, it is MQ4 so you can get into it.

HTH


----------



## electronicmaster

Trembling Hand said:


> No that is not at all what I'm suggesting. I was trying to get a gauge as to how long you hold trades that go against you. But it would make no diff to you. When you do the wrong thing and it works out right it just reinforces your incorrect actions ... until it ends in tears.
> BS. Trading incorrectly is never the way to go. IMO.





I do agree that not having a stop loss, over trading and holding trades for a really long time (for days and weeks) is bad trading practise.


I Think I can tune the settings of Fapturbo to give me a correct way to trade.

Currently I'm depending on the EA's  determined market trend and its own ability to act on detected long term trend change. (bad idea?)

Is it a scam, or is it not?  I'll Soon find out


----------



## wabbit

The MACD Sample comes with MT4.... it's a good starting point.

IBFX used to have a good video article, but they have since removed it.  Luckily I still have a copy.  Give me an email link and I will send it out to you (15MB .swf file)


wabbit 

P.S. In the video, ignore the account trapping code!


----------



## MS+Tradesim

Thanks macca and wabbit. Really appreciate your feedback.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

MS+Tradesim said:


> I have some of my own ideas that I want to turn into EAs but I know zilch about MT4 and MQL4.
> 
> Would any of you MT4 guys mind having a look at this info and advising if it is a helpful place to start learning?
> 
> http://www.metatrader.info/node/34
> 
> Thanks in advance.




do you know the C language? cause apparently its just a bastardised version of it.


----------



## MS+Tradesim

Stormin_Norman said:


> do you know the C language? cause apparently its just a bastardised version of it.



I don't but it's on my "to learn" list.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

MS+Tradesim said:


> I have some of my own ideas that I want to turn into EAs but I know zilch about MT4 and MQL4.
> 
> Would any of you MT4 guys mind having a look at this info and advising if it is a helpful place to start learning?
> 
> http://www.metatrader.info/node/34
> 
> Thanks in advance.






MS+Tradesim said:


> Wabbit,
> 
> Thanks for the feedback. That's kind of what I had in mind. However, looking at some of the EAs at FF there seem to be many files involved and I don't know where to start in terms of why a given EA might need so many files, so I still need to learn the basics about the platform and it how interacts with indicators, scripts and data etc.
> 
> Is there a freely available EA (system irrelevant as long as all the necessary factors are covered) that you could recommend I start with as a beginning template?
> 
> Thanks.




have a look at these ones.

they were all done by a young fella called ronald ray gun over at forex factory.

they are well set out and code is easy to follow.

contains most parts of an EA u need in there. should be able to just substitute the indicators for your own and away you go.


----------



## electronicmaster

Live _*statement update*_ for today.

It made over $1000.00 USD today. 

I had two scalp trades with USDCAD as well.


----------



## MS+Tradesim

Thanks stormin.


----------



## Trembling Hand

IMO. Anyone else?


----------



## electronicmaster

Trembling Hand said:


> IMO. Anyone else?




Oh yea, I'm feeling it.  Crapping my paints here.  But I'll let it go.  I can make it back again if it runs out of free margin tonight.

Its possible I'll lose up to $200.00 USD, but well see.


----------



## Page

I have accomplished that systems are legit, but only if the right tools are included into the trading procedure. To further solidify the position as a proven system, some trading platforms have decided to permit traders to attempt their system for an experiment period.  The cause for this experiment is to allow traders to undertake their system, determine if the signals work for them and, if the trader is making money, they will get hooked on the system.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

Page said:


> I have accomplished that systems are legit, but only if the right tools are included into the trading procedure. To further solidify the position as a proven system, some trading platforms have decided to permit traders to attempt their system for an experiment period.  The cause for this experiment is to allow traders to undertake their system, determine if the signals work for them and, if the trader is making money, they will get hooked on the system.




i dont know what to make of your posts page.


----------



## Trembling Hand

Stormin_Norman said:


> i dont know what to make of your posts page.




:alcohol:


----------



## electronicmaster

Live _*Statement Update*_, just before the sinking ship


----------



## Stormin_Norman

attach this indicator to your account, it gives a better indication of the account performance then purely balance.

open a new chart (any will do) and attach it. go into chart properties and turn all the visuals to 'none'.

set your account balance in the indicator properties and bob's your uncle.

(see attached image)


----------



## Stormin_Norman

yeah in the indicator properties (right click chart, indicators, select, properties).

also turn off all the prices and writing on the chart to get rid of the writing at the top left and the currency prices.

u can then pull the graph up using a resizing cursor to just below the indicator's green writing.

also u can adjust the time on the chart, which will show u different time periods on the EA.


----------



## electronicmaster

Ok hope this works out better.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

just above the green 'not accurate to last bar' writing, u should get a 'resize' window cursor which u can pull up to just under the statistics at the top, to give the graph more size.


----------



## electronicmaster

Stormin_Norman said:


> yeah in the indicator properties (right click chart, indicators, select, properties).
> 
> also turn off all the prices and writing on the chart to get rid of the writing at the top left and the currency prices.
> 
> u can then pull the graph up using a resizing cursor to just below the indicator's green writing.
> 
> also u can adjust the time on the chart, which will show u different time periods on the EA.




The time view is tricky to handle.  But wow, that looks ok.


----------



## electronicmaster

Just had my first TP of $25.00 for the night.  The prudent option seems to pick better trade positions.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

with the time view, dont forget u have time + zoom on the chart to use.


----------



## electronicmaster

It takes a while to get use too.


----------



## electronicmaster

Oh that last charts was with a starting capital of $828.00 USD.  This following chart shows the starting capital of 475.00 USD that I actually started with originally.  And that is after trading live for around 3 weeks


----------



## Stormin_Norman

you should start a seperate thread to discuss your EA.


----------



## electronicmaster

Stormin_Norman said:


> you should start a seperate thread to discuss your EA.




Will do.


----------



## electronicmaster

You can see my updates on the new topic *Forex Robots (live EA results)*


----------



## fapturbo

http://www.commercialnetworkservices.com/VPS/Windows/Traders/asx/Sirocco.asx

http://helpdesk.commercialnetworkse...loads&_a=viewdownload&downloaditemid=95&nav=0

Might be of interest to some.

Then might not....


----------



## Stormin_Norman

do we get a summary of what they are and why theyre good?


----------



## fapturbo

Stormin_Norman said:


> do we get a summary of what they are and why theyre good?




I have no idea.... just came across the links... in the .pdf file the basics of the system are outlined as far as I can tell.


----------



## MS+Tradesim

Well, I've taken a few steps forward. I'm finding it a bit overwhelming to learn MQL4, but in the meantime I've been learning VBA and have setup a spreadsheet to autotrade FX through IB. Have to wait till Monday now though before I can start testing it and debugging. It's not as simple as it seems to me as a programming beginner to encode human logic and have the PC check for all the possible conditional decisions needed to cover all bases. I'll get there though and am looking forward to this next stage in my trading journey.

I can now better appreciate those of you who have written EAs or other programs from scratch. Kudos to you. 

Ps. Question for VBA programmers. In terms of processing usage and efficiency is it better to use more or less modules? As a complete noob, I'm finding it simple to write lots of little modules that do specific tasks and then write an overlay kind of module that calls the little ones as needed - but I'm not sure if that taxes the PC's processing too much?!


----------



## Stormin_Norman

its not as hard as it seems as long as you keep the logic step and the syntax steps separate.


----------



## wabbit

MS+Tradesim said:


> Well, I've taken a few steps forward. I'm finding it a bit overwhelming to learn MQL4, but in the meantime I've been learning VBA and have setup a spreadsheet to autotrade FX through IB. Have to wait till Monday now though before I can start testing it and debugging. It's not as simple as it seems to me as a programming beginner to encode human logic and have the PC check for all the possible conditional decisions needed to cover all bases. I'll get there though and am looking forward to this next stage in my trading journey.
> 
> I can now better appreciate those of you who have written EAs or other programs from scratch. Kudos to you.
> 
> Ps. Question for VBA programmers. In terms of processing usage and efficiency is it better to use more or less modules? As a complete noob, I'm finding it simple to write lots of little modules that do specific tasks and then write an overlay kind of module that calls the little ones as needed - but I'm not sure if that taxes the PC's processing too much?!




One tool that can greatly assist a programmer dealing with logic issues is the Karnaugh Map.  You can use these to simplify expressions of multiple conditions into just a few lines of code.  Learning to use these makes life sooo much easier when dealing with, say, long entry, long exit, short entry and short exit signal combinations.

As for VBA modules.  IMHO if you are only ever going to use the functionality of that piece of code one just write the code inline.  If you're going to use the functionality in a few different applications then write a module and save it so it can be reused.  The difference on processor efficiency between inline and modular code is almost irrelevant; what makes the difference is the ease at which you can reuse and debug the code.  If you write a module, you can write a small application that extensively tests the module so you know it works.  When you call that function in another program and that program crashes, you can be pretty sure your well-tested module is not to blame and it must be another cause.  (Most programmers don't write test apps for their modules; I do it religiously.  The short time taken to write a proper test-rig for the function will save many hundreds or thousands of hours bug-hunting later!)

Hope this helps.


wabbit


----------



## MS+Tradesim

wabbit said:


> One tool that can greatly assist a programmer dealing with logic issues is the Karnaugh Map.  You can use these to simplify expressions of multiple conditions into just a few lines of code.  Learning to use these makes life sooo much easier when dealing with, say, long entry, long exit, short entry and short exit signal combinations.




Okay. I had a quick google for Karnaugh Map and it's a little beyond me right now but will probably make more sense down the road. 



> As for VBA modules.  IMHO if you are only ever going to use the functionality of that piece of code one just write the code inline.  If you're going to use the functionality in a few different applications then write a module and save it so it can be reused.




That makes sense. I've kind of done the multiple modules by default as I started out by using the macro recorder for buy, sell, cancel, close etc for manual trading which I then mapped to buttons. And that's made life simple now as I can just call those modules from the auto trading program, which I'm writing from scratch.



> If you write a module, you can write a small application that extensively tests the module so you know it works.




Can you expand on this a bit more please? What I've been doing is have a module do something arbitrary as a test, which I can then replace with the real decision once I know it's working.

For example: I might want to place a buy given X being true. So to test that module, if X then print the current time in a certain cell or write "Hello" somewhere. So I know that part of the overall tree is working. Then when I live test, I just replace that outcome with order placing code instead.

But I get the feeling you might mean something else. 




> The short time taken to write a proper test-rig for the function will save many hundreds or thousands of hours bug-hunting later!)




Given how painful I'm finding this process, I can really appreciate your enthusiasm for such an idea.

Thanks wabbit.


----------



## wabbit

MS+Tradesim said:


> Can you expand on this a bit more please? What I've been doing is have a module do something arbitrary as a test, which I can then replace with the real decision once I know it's working.
> 
> For example: I might want to place a buy given X being true. So to test that module, if X then print the current time in a certain cell or write "Hello" somewhere. So I know that part of the overall tree is working. Then when I live test, I just replace that outcome with order placing code instead.
> 
> But I get the feeling you might mean something else.




Let's pretend you have a VB module that divides one input argument by another input argument.  i.e.

private function Divide(single x, single y) as single
{
Divide = x/y
}

Your test application will call this function with maybe a few (thousand) values and test the outcomes.  You would test with all sorts of combinations such as the largest single positive value, largest negative single value, 1, and few other numbers somewhere in the range; test with numbers larger than than single data type and see that errors are correctly handled, test for divide by zero errors again to see that errors are correctly handled.

Each time you get an error in your module, you need to deal with it.  Eventually, after a lot of testing your module will be, for all intensive purposes, bullet-proof.

Along the way, you will learn to identify different errors which can occur when dealing with different data types, and human operators!  And how to write good testing applications.  Once you have a decent test-rig, you can apply it quite widely, meaning you don't necessarily have to write a whole new testing routine for each and every module (although, this is what they teach at Uni!)


If you want more help with Karnaugh mapping logic and decision trees, just give me a shout.


Hope this helps.

wabbit


----------



## Stormin_Norman

initial testing of version 2 of the derwent (named after the derwent river - which wasnt dammed and was allowed to 'go with the flow' ... ie the trend).

this is for just a single currency. im expecting this system to work across both multiple currencies and multiple markets, as it looks for a strong trend and buys into it at an opportune time.

time frame = 2004-2008.

no compounding returns/money management


----------



## MS+Tradesim

Thanks wabbit. No doubt that was simple to you, but I'll need to read it a few times and try it out to make sense of it.  But thanks!


----------



## Stormin_Norman

MS+Tradesim said:


> Thanks wabbit. No doubt that was simple to you, but I'll need to read it a few times and try it out to make sense of it.  But thanks!




if u dont test youll end up with a divide zero error or something which will wipe out your trading account in 5 minutes.

not wanting to be alarmist.


----------



## MS+Tradesim

Stormin_Norman said:


> if u dont test youll end up with a divide zero error or something which will wipe out your trading account in 5 minutes.
> 
> not wanting to be alarmist.




Oh, I get that and I test religiously...just not using a dedicated test module the way wabbit describes. However, after reading his post a few more times I now get what he's saying and could certainly come up with something to achieve that (given enough cups of coffee and nurofen).


----------



## pilbara

Stormin_Norman said:


> initial testing of version 2 of the derwent (named after the derwent river - which wasnt dammed and was allowed to 'go with the flow' ... ie the trend).



for "no dams" maybe the Franklin would be a better river than the Derwent!


----------



## Stormin_Norman

pilbara said:


> for "no dams" maybe the Franklin would be a better river than the Derwent!




am i getting my tasmanian rivers messed up?


----------



## pilbara

the Franklin river is famous for the "no dams" campaign in the early 1980s when the Tasmanian State government were trying to build further dams in the South West Wildnerness. Green activists led by Bob Brown blockaded the site and organized a national campaign with major street rallies, until 1983 when the Hawke Labor government was elected and took the Tasmanians to the high court to stop the project.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

its going to have to be renamed then!


----------



## pilbara

yeah the Derwent river is more of an estuary where the tide controls the flow, so maybe that's a better name for a different type of EA.

At the moment I'm working on a trend-following EA which is a less frequent trader than a scalper. I'm trying to get simple parameters on the strength of trend and the time scale.  I think it will be possible to have a number of these trend followers running at the same time on the same instrument but using different time scales, eg hourly trend, daily trend, weekly trend, monthly trend.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

thank you for correcting my poor geography.


----------



## Punisher

electronicmaster said:


> Oh yea, I'm feeling it.  Crapping my paints here.  But I'll let it go.  I can make it back again if it runs out of free margin tonight.
> 
> Its possible I'll lose up to $200.00 USD, but well see.




EM, if you reduced the amount of possible open trades at one time to preserve your capital until your trading account builds up to a reasonable amount? That would reduce the risk of margin calls and also it could save you from filling your pants with crap to.:twak:


----------



## MS+Tradesim

To coin a word, my cellbot (Excel driven autotrader) is now up and running on demo. I seem to have caught and corrected the majority of bugs and bad logic, but I'm sure more will present themselves so will be testing for awhile.

One thing that I really like about this setup is that through IB I do not have to trade lots. I can position size precisely based on risk. For instance I have  orders in now for 166481 on USD.JPY and 100537 on EUR.JPY. They update dynamically based on the changing AUD rates and change in entry point.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

that's a very clever system, to use excel to trade.

i am not really sure how that's done, and the instructions passed over, but very clever and well done! 

good to hear its operating well after some modifications. are u trading live demo?


----------



## pilbara

MS+Tradesim said:


> ... through IB I do not have to trade lots ...



I thought that you had to trade multiples of the minimum order size for it to be routed through IdealPro, otherwise it gets put through Ideal?  For example if your account is based in USD then the minimum is $25,000.


----------



## MS+Tradesim

Hey stormin,

I'm not sure what you mean by "live demo" but the IB Paper Trader account uses live data and 'executes' orders realistically such as partially filling (if not enough on offer) or running through as many levels as necessary to fill (on market orders), or getting swept along with slippage, etc so it is probably as real as can be on a demo.

As for my overall autotrading the basic setup is quite inelegant and cumbersome but looks like it will do the job until I can learn C and write my own interface. I've heard that using DDE through excel is not as fast and robust as a program written for the task.

IB feeds the FX data into Metastock and FX/account/order data into Excel. I have an EA (doesn't work the same as MT4 EAs) setup in Metastock that sends entry and exit signals and prices to a database. Excel then grabs that data and calculates position sizes based on %risk, equity, etc and then sends/cancels/modifies orders by placing them into IB. I actually think Amibroker would be able to achieve all that way more efficiently, but screw it! I love MS.

And because Excel is in a real sense, the front end, the next step which will be easy to do is to log all trades and extract the results for assessment, tax records, etc.


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## MS+Tradesim

pilbara said:


> I thought that you had to trade multiples of the minimum order size for it to be routed through IdealPro, otherwise it gets put through Ideal?  For example if your account is based in USD then the minimum is $25,000.




There are minimums but beyond that it's still working whether it routes into IDEAL or IDEALPRO.

It's been awhile since I traded FX live on IDEALPRO and I don't remember right now, but if it turns out it does work in lot sizes that it will be easy to allow for and adjust - but annoying from a position sizing perspective.


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## Stormin_Norman

MS+Tradesim said:


> Hey stormin,
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by "live demo" but the IB Paper Trader account uses live data and 'executes' orders realistically such as partially filling (if not enough on offer) or running through as many levels as necessary to fill (on market orders), or getting swept along with slippage, etc so it is probably as real as can be on a demo.
> 
> As for my overall autotrading the basic setup is quite inelegant and cumbersome but looks like it will do the job until I can learn C and write my own interface. I've heard that using DDE through excel is not as fast and robust as a program written for the task.
> 
> IB feeds the FX data into Metastock and FX/account/order data into Excel. I have an EA (doesn't work the same as MT4 EAs) setup in Metastock that sends entry and exit signals and prices to a database. Excel then grabs that data and calculates position sizes based on %risk, equity, etc and then sends/cancels/modifies orders by placing them into IB. I actually think Amibroker would be able to achieve all that way more efficiently, but screw it! I love MS.
> 
> And because Excel is in a real sense, the front end, the next step which will be easy to do is to log all trades and extract the results for assessment, tax records, etc.




nice work, very impressive. you must be quite a excel wizz.

by live demo i mean paper trading 'as real' just substituting pretend money for real money.


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## pilbara

MS+Tradesim said:


> As for my overall autotrading the basic setup is quite inelegant and cumbersome but looks like it will do the job until I can learn C and write my own interface. I've heard that using DDE through excel is not as fast and robust as a program written for the task.



I think TWS is java, so the java API might be the easiest to work with.  Here's a tutorial:

http://www.stockbotprogramming.com/javaibtutorial1.php


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## Stormin_Norman

we're looking at preferably going to java when we need to upgrade our broker.

the programmer likes that most out of all languages.


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## MS+Tradesim

Stormin_Norman said:


> nice work, very impressive. you must be quite a excel wizz.




Not at all. Just learning as I go. Google is my best friend.


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## Stormin_Norman

google can make anyone an expert


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## MS+Tradesim

Yay! Found a looping error which keeps placing orders. I think there were something like 50 orders sent.


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## Stormin_Norman

can i suggest u start your own thread to keep us up to date with how youre going?


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## pilbara

Stormin_Norman said:


> we're looking at preferably going to java when we need to upgrade our broker.
> 
> the programmer likes that most out of all languages.



i agree, java will allow your programmer to make reliable server software of the highest quality.  First I'd like to try Oanda's java API, it looks pretty good, but my long term aim is to use the FIX protocol, for example http://www.mbtrading.com/developersMbtFixGateway.aspx

At the moment I'm using C# which is Microsoft's version of java, through the "mother of all bucketshops" FXCM.  I'm using this as a learning exercise.  Also I'm convinced that the FXCM pricing engine, with all its spikes and stop hunting, gives good opportunity to fade false breakouts.


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## pilbara

cogs said:


> Has anyone been contacted by www.forexmetarobot.com personnel via email?
> 
> Would like to know if anyone is using their product.
> 
> Just another Bot I would imagine, will need the three month pipcop trial before I will look deeper.



good work cogs and pipcop for showing this robot to be a scam!  One bad week on the AUD/NZ wiped them out and sent the authors back to the drawing board.

http://www.pipcop.com/forums/curren...rexmetarobot-com-forex-meta-robot-review.html


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## steve747

*Forex robots*

Hello. I don`t know if there is a thread on this subject but does anyone know of a good robot that does actually work?

Also does anyone know of a Jim Phillips of froexcritic.com? He`s based in QLD

Thanks


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## Mr J

*Re: Forex robots*

An automatic trading system? If I did, I would certainly not reveal it to anyone without _significant_ compensation.


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## ramzgee

Hi people,

just wondering what your thoughts are, I have been using a demo account for about a month now and realising very early that i was missing out on some good trade opportunities because i was either sleeping or at work (go figure) i decided to give an ea a go when i came across fapturbo. you could say i got sucked in by the hype but the $150 odd wasnt anything i couldnt spare in order to make more. 

i was originally using it with gomarkets "go trader mt4" but found the large spreads were hindering its performance when using the scalper strategy, so i decided to use a broker they recommended which was fxcbs.  I started with a 1000usd demo to test it and it has actually been pretty good. over the last 6 trading days it has returned around a $70usd profit using lots of 0.1. only 4 out of the 25 trades in the past week have been losses and the average being around $3.30 with the average profit around $5.10.

reading through previous spreads how different is a demo to a live account? obviously other then the fact that real money is being traded.

cheers

peace


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## tko

Robots can't replace humans! LOL


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## piptastic101

yess... and not to side with them as I like manual trading... but if you are trading on technicals, then they can monitor many more indicators that one can manually monitor every second of the day!


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## Mr J

Trading technicals isn't a matter of how many indicators you can monitor.


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## jaden

*SuperFXRobot EA*

I am new to forex and would like to get a good Expert Adviser. I heard about FAP Turbo, but it's not good. I saw the robot on SuperFXRobot and am wondering if it really so good. Can anyone tell me if I should buy it or not. Thanks.


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## Wysiwyg

*Re: SuperFXRobot EA*

This site allows you to rent a FX signal. http://www.rentasignal.com/signal


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## Dracuu

*Re: SuperFXRobot EA*

I personally would be cautious of this robot. I have a fair bit of experience writing robots and this is a site that a lot of people use to verify their results to the public -

http://www.myfxbook.com/members/ForexDJ/wwwsuperfxrobotcom/32532

http://www.myfxbook.com/community/trading-systems/fx-robot/25681,1

http://www.myfxbook.com/community/trading-systems/fx-robot/34005,1

Read the comments for the robot. It has dodgy written all over it.

Also in general I would be careful with bots that scalp. When an average win/loss is 1-2 pips it leaves it open to large discrepancies when you include re-quotes/slippage and brokerage rates is an extra important factor. I am not saying they don't work as I have seen lots of them work but just be careful.

Maximum Drawdown is really important so look for a low maxDD. 

Check how quick they lose money in a sideways or whipsawing market as that is the true test of a robot. With the site above you can download the trades and analyse them if you like.


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## Wysiwyg

*Re: SuperFXRobot EA*

There are penalties in Australia for FRAUD so I doubt this thief will return here.


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## macca

*Re: SuperFXRobot EA*



jaden said:


> I am new to forex and would like to get a good Expert Adviser. I heard about FAP Turbo, but it's not good. I saw the robot on SuperFXRobot and am wondering if it really so good. Can anyone tell me if I should buy it or not. Thanks.




Hi,

Life ain't meant to be easy 

If there was something out there that worked it would be like Fap Turbo, so many people buy it initially that this throws up a statistical anomaly, the LPs pick this up, find out why, then create set ups to trigger and stop the trades.

Please stop and think about it, 1% a week is only $10 a week per $1000 account balance, yet if something gives only 1% a week every week, 5 years from now you will be very wealthy, would you throw all that future wealth away buy selling for $200- $300 now ?

Very sure I wouldn't !!


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## cogs

Here is a cheapy and should help you decide whether to use a bot or not, and the legitimacy of these things.
http://cgi.ebay.com/MT4-Forex-Stock...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4150438aa8


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## macca

*Re: SuperFXRobot EA*



jaden said:


> I am new to forex and would like to get a good Expert Adviser. I heard about FAP Turbo, but it's not good. I saw the robot on SuperFXRobot and am wondering if it really so good. Can anyone tell me if I should buy it or not. Thanks.




Hi,

Life ain't meant to be easy 

If there was something out there that worked it would be like Fap Turbo, so many people buy it initially that this throws up a statistical anomaly, the LPs pick this up, find out why, then create set ups to trigger and stop the trades.

Please stop and think about it, 1% a week is only $10 a week per $1000 account balance, yet if something gives only 1% a week every week, 5 years from now you will be very wealthy, would you throw all that future wealth away by selling for $200- $300 now ?

Very sure I wouldn't !!


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## waza1960

I have 10 FX robots/strategies/systems running through ninja trader (see screenshot of one of my systems backtesting results) which I designed myself, I have had little consistant success to date (only being live for 1 month)so filter my opinions accordingly............
   One of my beliefs on the markets is that any system only works for a limited period of time i.e exploiting an inefficiency in the market.
   So all these robots for sale will only work for a limited time ( if they work at all)without adjustment until they become unprofitable.
        If you don't know the details/code of your robot/system and its backtest/sim results how will you persist with  it during drawdowns without stopping it.
  Trading small time frames which is really trading market noise is very difficult its just that it sells more robots because its exciting much better to start with 30m/60 m time frames in my opinion.


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## SteveinSA

tom_rhodes said:


> forgot to ask - which forums would you recommend for the robots?




You could try the Molanis forum. See support at molanis.com I've found it helpful.


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## SteveinSA

white_goodman said:


> yeh backtesting results arent reliable at all due to repainting indicators etc




I'd be interested in learning more about your thoughts on backtesting and how accurate it really is.


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## Columbo

*Re: SuperFXRobot EA*

Couldn't agree more...

Anyone selling anything is a scam and will not work long term.
Hard work, imagination and finding a method that is unique will give you the best chance of success.
Use a method no one else is aware of, in my opinion TA is old news and you land up chasing the next indicator or Mov. Av. on a regular basis.


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## armin

It's a pretty old thread. Is there any robots nowadays that you guys suggest?


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## Wysiwyg

I doubt anyone will reply. Smart people understand that if an automated trading system worked then it won't be made known. That would be cutting ones nose off in spite of ones face. I bought five EA's over the years and all but one failed but the author disappeared and the EA won't work on  MT4 build 600 higher. The temptation to simply fund an account and switch on a perceived money making EA is the hook that catches the newbies. 

Newbies are few around here.


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## karmaD

Hi ALL

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer - it depends on what one expects from a 'robot'.
Is it an entry/exit signal so you can trade manually or semi-manually? Is it a fully automated Expert Advisor that takes the trades with no manual intervention?

I had read interviews with few successful traders that are only using automated software, including the last book from Jack D. Schwager's 'Market Wizards" series.

Everyone trading style is different and along the journey to become a successful trader why not trying this option too?

I've got a short list of current Forex trading software on my website - for people interested to experiment (note that most of them have a 'money back' policy   ) 

Trade safe & profitable
cheers


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## minwa

karmaD said:


> I've got a short list of current Forex trading software on my website - for people interested to experiment (note that most of them have a 'money back' policy   )




Congratulations you take top spot for having most affiliate links & google ads on a trading site.


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## cogs

> I've got a short list of current Forex trading software on my website - for people interested to experiment (note that most of them have a 'money back' policy  )




I think it's these mass produced 'for sale' robots that start topics just like this thread 'legit or scam'. And so the cycle continues.


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## karmaD

minwa said:


> Congratulations you take top spot for having most affiliate links & google ads on a trading site.




Thanks  Always glad to have visitors on my site.
At the end of the day, everyone learning journey is different. As per my experience  I have bought numerous books and software while studying (school, uni, etc). Did it help? Did I make more money because one or another? 
Yes and No. 
Same with trading software - robots, expert advisors, automated signals, indicators and all sorts of systems - it is part of the learning curve or so called ''trial and error". Depending on anyone's learning approach and personality it may have a greater or smaller contribution to the final trading style.

Regards & trade safe


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## Porper

minwa said:


> Congratulations you take top spot for having most affiliate links & google ads on a trading site.




Unbelievable...I haven't seen a site like the one KarmaD is advertising for a long time. Ads everywhere, as well as popups.

A dead giveaway that it's dubious i.m.o. Why try to get an income off ads if you are a successful trader? Answer -  You don't. Beware!!


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