# The European - Refugee/Migrant/Welfare Chaser/Humanitarian Crisis



## DB008 (19 September 2015)

As we have seen, there has been a massive influx of migrants/refugees/welfare chasers into Europe of late.

U.N HCR estimates that there are almost 60 million people who have been displaced by the war/terror in the Middle East.

http://www.unhcr.org/55df0e556.html​

So far, Germany and Sweden seem to be open/pro boarders, while other countries are closing theirs (Hungary and Croatia). It also looks like some Middle Eastern countries (Saudi/Qatar) aren't taking any refugees at all. Saudi Arabia said it would give money to build 200 mosques in Germany, but not food/water/shelter to displaced people in their own country....

There has also been 'in fighting' of Turks and Syrians in Germany/Switzerland already, will it get worse?

My opinion is that Islam and Western Culture will never mix and there will be a huge problem in Europe soon (5 - 10 years from now), I hope I am wrong. The tolerant are inviting the intolerant to their country.

Please discuss and keep it civil, and also reference your quotes if possible. No tin-foil hat please.


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## qldfrog (20 September 2015)

And not to forget the sea access
on the 19th: 4500+ people arriving by boat:
http://www.lemonde.fr/europe/article/2015/09/19/une-vaste-operation-permet-de-secourir-plus-de-4-000-migrants-en-mediterranee_4763975_3214.html


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## dutchie (20 September 2015)

2050 - Muslim Europe breaks out in civil war, refugees/migrants/better life chasers flee to Russia.


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## luutzu (20 September 2015)

60 million people displaced; some 9 countries are at war since Operation freedom something or other; 15 years and now Russia and the US are just getting really serious about where their jets are parked... and these welfare and economic migrants just want to jump on a boat and some of them and their children die, floating to shores to make us feel bad about ourselves.

Why don't they just stay where God intend them to be... I mean, it's not like we play politics and puppeteer or send in our jets or something.

Clash of civilizations? Are all people within any drawn up border brothers? Like Assad and the Syrian brothers who's fighting him and the Syrians who's fleeing from his armies?


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## SirRumpole (20 September 2015)

luutzu said:


> Clash of civilizations? Are all people within any drawn up border brothers? Like Assad and the Syrian brothers who's fighting him and the Syrians who's fleeing from his armies?




I think it's a matter of countries not wanting to inherit the sectarian problems of other countries and cultures, so yes borders are there partly to maintain a "way of life" and protect the values of those countries.

There has been no history of Muslim-sect vs another-Muslim-sect vs Christianity in much of Western Europe or Australia, so why should they/we allow the peace that we have developed over the years to be contaminated by other peoples' inability to solve their own problems peacefully ?


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## luutzu (21 September 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> I think it's a matter of countries not wanting to inherit the sectarian problems of other countries and cultures, so yes borders are there partly to maintain a "way of life" and protect the values of those countries.
> 
> There has been no history of Muslim-sect vs another-Muslim-sect vs Christianity in much of Western Europe or Australia, so why should they/we allow the peace that we have developed over the years to be contaminated by other peoples' inability to solve their own problems peacefully ?




I don't think the value is worth protecting if it allow us to turn blind eyes on suffering and prejudge an entire people. Though I know what you mean but if we think about it, we plebs ought to leave such "clashes of civilisations", us and them... leave those to the Masters of War and their map-makers.

Most of us are apolitical. We just want to study, get a job, afford a family, and enjoy the simple things in life. All these religious and cultural differences... they're all superficial and created to either divide or unite, depends on the mood and ambitions of people whose craziness we couldn't begin to imagine.


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## DB008 (21 September 2015)

No bombs falling on your heads, not in a warzone? Check

Shelter/accomodation? Check

Food/water - Check

No one telling you to convert or die? Check

Sweden, you have failed...


*Asylum seekers stage protest over accomodation​*


> The group of around 25 asylum seekers arrived at the accomodation in Fredriksberg in the early hours and refused to get off the bus. They told reporters that they had received information that they were on their way to the larger town of Hedemora, but that did not happen. Mohammad Khaled was one of those who did not like the location. He told SVT News.
> 
> "When we came here, we found ourselves in this place, 30 minutes away from the nearest supermarket, and 45 minutes by car from a hospital, and no schools."
> 
> ...




http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=6258078​


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## SirRumpole (21 September 2015)

luutzu said:


> I don't think the value is worth protecting if it allow us to turn blind eyes on suffering and prejudge an entire people.




"We" are not turning a blind eye. We are taking an extra 12,000 out of refugee camps. The US says it will take 85,000 next year and 100,000 the year after. Europe is taking as many as they can handle, but some refugees want to tell those countries how to run their refugee programs and will end up on welfare costing billions. The line has to be drawn somewhere.


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## luutzu (22 September 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> "We" are not turning a blind eye. We are taking an extra 12,000 out of refugee camps. The US says it will take 85,000 next year and 100,000 the year after. Europe is taking as many as they can handle, but some refugees want to tell those countries how to run their refugee programs and will end up on welfare costing billions. The line has to be drawn somewhere.




Didn't the UN estimate 60 million displaced?
From what I read, all the neighbouring countries have taken in 2 millions or more each.

We drawn our line pretty close aren't we. And it's not like the 12,000 extra Syrian refugees were taken in our of kindness... it's a political ploy, like the date 9/11, is when new major operations always commences over there.


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## luutzu (22 September 2015)

DB008 said:


> No bombs falling on your heads, not in a warzone? Check
> 
> Shelter/accomodation? Check
> 
> ...




Let's take that article at face value... so we have refugees like that.
We also have Australians like you too mate.

If we use you and your cut/paste as representative of what Australia is, it'll scare the heck out of people too.


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## Macquack (22 September 2015)

I reckon Gerry Harvey "Harvey Norman" and the like, love refugees. More demand for televisions, beds, lounges, washing machines, ovens, cooktops, refigerators etc. 

What is the true economic effect of mass immigration?

One obvious outcome to me is rampant "inflation". The refugees must have money to survive and the f***ing banks love this desparate situation to fire up their "credit creation" fraud on mankind.


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## sptrawler (22 September 2015)

Macquack said:


> I reckon Gerry Harvey "Harvey Norman" and the like, love refugees. More demand for televisions, beds, lounges, washing machines, ovens, cooktops, refigerators etc.
> 
> What is the true economic effect of mass immigration?
> 
> One obvious outcome to me is rampant "inflation". The refugees must have money to survive and the f***ing banks love this desparate situation to fire up their "credit creation" fraud on mankind.




For once I agree with you, wonders never cease.

It is a way to introduce competition into the labour market, and also inject new money and demand in the economy.


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## luutzu (22 September 2015)

Macquack said:


> I reckon Gerry Harvey "Harvey Norman" and the like, love refugees. More demand for televisions, beds, lounges, washing machines, ovens, cooktops, refigerators etc.
> 
> What is the true economic effect of mass immigration?
> 
> One obvious outcome to me is rampant "inflation". The refugees must have money to survive and the f***ing banks love this desparate situation to fire up their "credit creation" fraud on mankind.




Businesses would love refugees for the low wages and sweatshop working conditions in Australia, guys like Harvey and his HN can't get a buck out of refugees for at least another 20 years.

My dad did some sign work this VNese refugee who made a fortune starting with one old truck and a lot of old furnitures he refurbished and resell to other refugees. He got them from St Vinnies or off the streets on collection day and give it a good clean. Ends up with a good sized chain, where Dad said his business model was then to follow Harvey Norman and undercut them.

There's also this refugee who started fixing used car radios after his work hours, sell them at Flemington on weekends and now literally own most of the shops in Canley Vale. Though some of his radios might not have been completely adandoned or used if you know what I mean... but that's just me.

But for every one of these good stories you get a number where, I guess they don't like to be call refugees ever, would go buy $5K, $10K handbags and wouldn't be caught dead living in suburbs where refugees live.


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## Tisme (23 September 2015)

luutzu said:


> Businesses would love refugees for the low wages and sweatshop working conditions in Australia, guys like Harvey and his HN can't get a buck out of refugees for at least another 20 years.
> 
> My dad did some sign work this VNese refugee who made a fortune starting with one old truck and a lot of old furnitures he refurbished and resell to other refugees. He got them from St Vinnies or off the streets on collection day and give it a good clean. Ends up with a good sized chain, where Dad said his business model was then to follow Harvey Norman and undercut them.
> 
> ...




My home has been free range, inter alia, for ethnic kids and as adults many of them still turn up, especially for loud shows and tea parties. The second gen Australians with Viet parents are doing quite well for themselves ; one is busy buying pharmacies, a couple are doctors, one a sleazy real estate person, another a banker, etc. the boys have a come a long way from machete fights and drug hookups ...


.... I like to think 'me and my own' gave them some help along the way, their parents overtly happy with us for the safety net (good thing I eat Asian dude food). I just parted employment ways (last week) with one of the mid twenties girls who was suffering confidence issues (a fairly common Viet female custom it seems) and she's off to ply her original trade as a degreed professional.....she even carries my degenerative sense of humour now, such a pretty face, such a potty mouth  

luutzu, I remember having one of those roof painters come and do my home at the time and in friendly conversation he fessed up he was a general in the south viet army..... I was rather impressed how he just got on and earned a crust without the malaise of lost power, influence and wealth.


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## luutzu (23 September 2015)

Tisme said:


> My home has been free range, inter alia, for ethnic kids and as adults many of them still turn up, especially for loud shows and tea parties. The second gen Australians with Viet parents are doing quite well for themselves ; one is busy buying pharmacies, a couple are doctors, one a sleazy real estate person, another a banker, etc. the boys have a come a long way from machete fights and drug hookups ...
> 
> 
> .... I like to think 'me and my own' gave them some help along the way, their parents overtly happy with us for the safety net (good thing I eat Asian dude food). I just parted employment ways (last week) with one of the mid twenties girls who was suffering confidence issues (a fairly common Viet female custom it seems) and she's off to ply her original trade as a degreed professional.....she even carries my degenerative sense of humour now, such a pretty face, such a potty mouth
> ...




That's awesome Tisme. I always wanted to meet the Aussies who directly help refugees like myself.... don't know what to say when meeting them but yea.. .now there's you and Ifocus on the forum, small world. 

You and your family sure had gone a long way helping us out... the sleazy agent, well we can't have it all, sometime nature just does its things ... the lady with confidence issues, maybe that's from having your sense of humour causing her to have no friends but can't really pin point why she always upset people, haha


Pretty sure I can speak on behalf of the Viet refugees that we owe a heck of a lot to Australian generosity... pretty much everything actually. There's a few real politician among us, that i actually know, who pay lip service and salute the flag and stuff, but yea, just about every one I know do know and said so in private, especially the older ones. Even the orphaned boys my age who sell drugs and knock off car stereos... they know too.

I know this former SVN Navy captain... the man used to teach me guitar, though he had much better luck teaching his three kids to ace the HSC than my musical talent... We were talking one time and he said how when the South was close to collapse this Chinese merchant came to see him with two luggage of gold and jewelries, asking him to take one bag if he would take the guy and his family to Singapore on his ship when he leave. That when their families get to Singapore the guy will also give him a house there. 

The guy pull out his pistol, told the merchant to scram... and I thought, wow, that's amazing... then he said, no I was young and stupid, you do stupid things like that when you're young. Soon after that he was caught and spent 15 years in concentration camp.

He said he used to work with William Cohen, I think, the guy that was US under secretary of defense under Clinton. So there's a lot of ambition and talent there that was dashed but he got on with his life and really teach his kids... the youngest one skip a couple of grades and the two older ones all top their schools.


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## DB008 (24 September 2015)

A for effort...


*AHMED H. HAD SEVEN DIFFERENT PASSPORTS WHEN HE GOT CAUGHT​*




> After being caught, seven different passports were found in Ahmed H.’s possession, all of them with valid Schengen visa. According to the Police, Ahmed H. is one of the leaders of the RÃ¶szke rebellion, and is a member of the Tablighi Jamaat, an Islam fundamentalist organization. Ahmed H. (39) Syrian citizen, was arrested on Tuesday at Szeged, after being caught by the Counter Terrorism Commando on Saturday at the train station at Győr. He is suspected of being the leader of an aggressive migrant group which attacked the officers defending RÃ¶szke 2. on 16 September.
> 
> According to official sources, Ahmed H. is a Cyprus citizen, has a work permit, and he’s a member if the Tablighi. Jamaat (Society for Spreading Faith), which is a terrorist cover organization for sending radical activists into the target countries.




http://dailynewshungary.com/ahmed-h-had-seven-different-passports-when-he-got-caught/​


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## Macquack (24 September 2015)

luutzu said:


> guys like Harvey and his HN can't get a buck out of refugees for at least another 20 years.




I know the owner of a removalist company that has a nice little government contract delivering Harvey Norman packages of household appliances to refugees in Western Sydney.

My point was that even capitalists like Gerry Harvey have a soft spot for the downtrodden, as long as he is turning a buck out of their plight, which he is.


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## sptrawler (24 September 2015)

The Italian, English, Polish, Lithuanian, Vietnamese, and other migrants, have added a lot to Australian culture and prosperity.

I'm yet to be convinced, the recent ethic influx, has the same work ethic.


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## luutzu (24 September 2015)

Macquack said:


> I know the owner of a removalist company that has a nice little government contract delivering Harvey Norman packages of household appliances to refugees in Western Sydney.
> 
> My point was that even capitalists like Gerry Harvey have a soft spot for the downtrodden, as long as he is turning a buck out of their plight, which he is.




Yea, got to love capitalists, they'll love everyone with a dollar, or a dollar they can shake out of.

Kinda strange then that society worship people like that.


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## luutzu (24 September 2015)

sptrawler said:


> The Italian, English, Polish, Lithuanian, Vietnamese, and other migrants, have added a lot to Australian culture and prosperity.
> 
> I'm yet to be convinced, the recent ethic influx, has the same work ethic.




I don't think I've met or work with any recent Arab refugees, but the ones I have contracted or work with, they're actually very good and honest. There's always a couple here and there, but in general there's no difference in work ethics.


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## Tisme (25 September 2015)

sptrawler said:


> The Italian, English, Polish, Lithuanian, Vietnamese, and other migrants, have added a lot to Australian culture and prosperity.
> 
> I'm yet to be convinced, the recent ethic influx, has the same work ethic.




I think there has also been a shift in community expectation:- we don't anticipate new arrivals without any qualifications will do anything much, but sit around the streets talking about their religion/ghetto and collect welfare.

When I think of those Italians who got off the boats and almost immediately disappeared into the workforce, later to surface with families and a brick house with concrete lions in the fore yard.


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## SirRumpole (25 September 2015)

Tisme said:


> When I think of those Italians who got off the boats and almost immediately disappeared into the workforce, later to surface with families and a brick house with concrete lions in the fore yard.




And a market garden in the backyard.


Of course, some of them were growing more than veggies in the garden eh Mr Trimbole ?


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## DB008 (27 September 2015)

Wow, just wow.

Nice to see that a Government is looking after it's citizens first and foremost.

*German nurse shocked after being forced out of flat to make way for refugees​*


> Having lived in the same flat for 16 years, a German woman is being forced to move out to make way for refugees, because building a new shelter is too expensive. The 51 year-old nurse, who has helped asylum seekers in the past, was shocked by the news.
> Bettina Halbey, who lives alone in the small town of Nieheim, received a letter from her landlord and the local municipality at the start of September, Die Welt newspaper reported on Thursday.
> 
> “I was completely shocked and I can’t even begin to find the words to describe how the city has treated me,” Halbey told the German publication. “I have had to go through a lot of difficulties recently, and then I get this notice. It was like a kick in the teeth.”
> ...




http://www.rt.com/news/316568-germany-nurse-eviction-refugees/​


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## DB008 (27 September 2015)

*30% migrants are fake Syrians, says Germany​*



> Germany estimates that 30 per cent of incoming migrants claiming to be citizens of war-torn Syria are in fact from other countries, an interior ministry spokesman said on Friday.
> 
> "It's an estimate based on the observations of officials on the ground, especially the federal police, the Office for Migration and Refugees and (EU border protection agency) Frontex," he said.
> 
> ...




http://www.khaleejtimes.com/international/europe/30-migrants-are-fake-syrians-says-germany​


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## DB008 (3 October 2015)

*German police call for segregated refugee shelters​*



> German police have called for refugees to be housed along religious and ethnic lines after a series of mass brawls in emergency accommodation.
> 
> Last week, a fight between up to 200 Syrians and Afghans in a Leipzig shelter turned into a running battle with residents using table legs as clubs. In Lower Saxony, police reported about 100 Syrians and Albanians fighting each other with bits of bicycles and other objects. Last month, meanwhile, police arrested 14 people after a melee at a shelter in the eastern city of Suhl, with other incidents recorded in Bonn, Dresden and Trier.
> 
> ...




http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/german-police-call-for-segregated-refugee-shelters-1.2371827​


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## sptrawler (3 October 2015)

You aren't getting a lot of responses, Danny, I think everyone is aware of the $hit this is going to land us in.

It really is a passive takeover, end result a really big war between China and the Muslims IMO

Big trouble in little China.


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## DB008 (8 October 2015)

*Woman 'gang-raped in refugee camp ordered to stay SILENT by no-borders activists'​*


> A GANG of Sudanese migrants raped a human rights activist at a refugee camp – but she was pressured to stay silent in case she damaged the cause, it has been claimed.
> 
> It is claimed she was trapped in a shower block near the camp but loud music meant her cries for help went unheard during the horror attack.
> 
> ...




http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/610376/woman-gang-raped-refugee-camp-activists-Italy-border-France-Ventimiglia​


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## Knobby22 (9 October 2015)

Yes DB.
Politically the left cannot stay acendant if the refugees do not behave well.
I  think refugee policies in Europe will look very different in 5 years. Davod Cameron, a very astute politician is showing the way.


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## Tisme (9 October 2015)

Can't they do DNA tests and send them off to their ancestral homelands where they can enjoy each other's commonality and live in peaceful co-existence?


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## DB008 (11 October 2015)

*So much money get refugees by the State​*


> A refugee family in Germany receives:
> 
> Place to live
> Parents each get 297 Euros
> ...





http://www.bild.de/politik/inland/fluechtling/so-viel-geld-bekommen-sie-vom-staat-42959310.bild.html​


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## luutzu (11 October 2015)

DB008 said:


> *So much money get refugees by the State​*
> 
> 
> http://www.bild.de/politik/inland/fluechtling/so-viel-geld-bekommen-sie-vom-staat-42959310.bild.html​




Maybe it's just a waste of money, maybe it will turn out to be a good investment. One that returns both capital, interests and other economic and financial gains, as well as maybe an investment in showing the kind of society we ought to be.

It certainly beat the kind of waste most gov't put towards bailing out the big corporations and investment banks.

Can't speak for myself, but the costs Australian taxpayers had generously given our family has, by my basic calculation, been returned multiple times.

Sure my parents and siblings still get the better deal, but on a strict financial basis what we've received probably adds up to no more than $200k since first arrival and to end of uni - four of my siblings have each been paying at least $30k to $40k in income tax each year for past 5 years, before that they were on a graduate rate... and it looks like the future might be brighter still. And none of them have been to see accountants to ask how to reduce taxes - that's not because they don't know maths.


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## luutzu (11 October 2015)

sptrawler said:


> You aren't getting a lot of responses, Danny, I think everyone is aware of the $hit this is going to land us in.
> 
> It really is a passive takeover, end result a really big war between China and the Muslims IMO
> 
> Big trouble in little China.




Not a lot of responses because if people want this kind of fair and balance reporting they'd subscribe to Faux News.


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## qldfrog (12 October 2015)

luutzu said:


> Maybe it's just a waste of money, maybe it will turn out to be a good investment.



and to be a devil's advocate: why even invest for some hypothetic return when you can just reap benefits:
I am a legal migrant based on qualification and points:
arrived here young 20y ago , already educated with soon to be wife, same status; 
coming in after medical check and with a clause preventing any centerlink benefit for 3y;
Never ever got a benefit from the australian government, son born before baby bonus and family allowances;
my small family ( wife, I and kid) paid 100 000's every year in taxes on average ;

Policy can still be done as currently, Australia is still attractive to young graduates especially as it has avoided high unregulated migration until recently

why would you even take the chance to risk failure, destroying the core of your society and bringing in self exploding martyrs when you could get the cream of the world?
too selfish for the PC brigade?

Sadly, i do see this country attraction going down the drain due mostly to economic policies; maybe MT will change that....


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## luutzu (12 October 2015)

qldfrog said:


> and to be a devil's advocate: why even invest for some hypothetic return when you can just reap benefits:
> I am a legal migrant based on qualification and points:
> arrived here young 20y ago , already educated with soon to be wife, same status;
> coming in after medical check and with a clause preventing any centerlink benefit for 3y;
> ...




Helping refugees is not just about economics. It's helping those in need. Getting skilled immigrants with qualifications and cash are done for practical purposes... the former is saying we can help, the latter is we need the money.

Kinda like marrying for love or for money. For love you each make sacrifices, help each other and overcome difficulties and live happily ever after... For money you'd both go: I might not like everything about the person but time is important and money is good and if the proverbial hit the fan I'll at least take half of the lots of stuff they now have...

You might be the cream of the crop, some Muslim might be terrorists, but there's no guarantee that either group will be a good investment simply because of their dress code and good looks right?

While a case can be made that most refugees are not economic migrants, the same cannot be said for "skilled" migrant. Why else would a skilled and somewhat well off person chose to pick up and leave their safe country? For a better job, a better lifestyle, cleaner air, where they could afford to live where no Muslims or slump is just a few suburbs away... so yes, if we're into economic migration bashing, refugees as a group ain't it.

So depends on how you define the core, or what you want the core value of the country to be. 

I have seen, just about everyone, admiring the rich and those with titles and assets and blings to their name. Falling all over themselves to attract and tie catches like that quick smart... Such people are never likeable and such relationship never end well, and ending was the best thing that could happen in those cases.

If you think personal relationship cannot be extrapolated to national policies, take a look at the US (we Aussies are better though right?)... Putting money and those with money above all else, sing hollow praises of this and that and they now have the top 1% owning half the country, literally... the other top 9% own another 15% and everyone else at the bottom hate Muslims and Mexicans and the Blacks and they all packing heat.


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## Tisme (12 October 2015)

luutzu said:


> Helping refugees is not just about economics. It's helping those in need. Getting skilled immigrants with qualifications ......




Some of those qualifications and skillsets are proven to be worthless time and time again in my chosen profession. And of course we don't really need degrees to shuffle paperwork between public servants, but it gives the staff something to feel proud of between PD courses; however importing people to do the the same menial tasks when the unemployed could do them ......

In the past we set up migration to increase the talent pool without having to spend the training dollars. Now we have moved to pro discrimination and quota systems, importing people who have a cultural norm of uncontested obedience to skyfairies, an obsequious mob mentality, a ghetto mindset, indolent work ethic and a high degree of rat cunning..... it's like the Irish potato famine all over again.


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## SirRumpole (12 October 2015)

Tisme said:


> Now we have moved to pro discrimination and quota systems, importing people who have a cultural norm of uncontested obedience to skyfairies, an obsequious mob mentality, a ghetto mindset, indolent work ethic and a high degree of rat cunning..... it's like the Irish potato famine all over again.




It's called Family Reunion visas.


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## DB008 (5 November 2015)

*SWEDES FIND WEAPONS STASH AT MIGRANT CENTER​*



> Law enforcement agents in Krokum, Sweden, went on high alert after security staffers at the local migrant center reported uncovering a stash of weapons hidden in the heating room.
> 
> Gateway Pundit reported the story, translated from the Swedish Avpixlat: “A weapon cache was found last week at an asylum accommodation in Krokom … inside the property’s heating chamber. … The weapons were seized.”
> 
> ...





http://www.wnd.com/2015/11/swedes-find-weapons-stash-at-migrant-center/​


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## Tisme (6 November 2015)

DB008 said:


> *SWEDES FIND WEAPONS STASH AT MIGRANT CENTER​*
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Should have swapped them out for guns that couldn't fire.... mums the word.


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## luutzu (8 November 2015)

Tisme said:


> Some of those qualifications and skillsets are proven to be worthless time and time again in my chosen profession....




btw, what is your profession Tisyou? Researcher at uni or CSIRO? Heard you said IT but from what you say have thought you'd be in law or politics - saying things that can be taken both ways


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## Tisme (8 November 2015)

luutzu said:


> btw, what is your profession Tisyou? Researcher at uni or CSIRO? Heard you said IT but from what you say have thought you'd be in law or politics - saying things that can be taken both ways




Double entendrepreneur !

Have a few disciplines under my belt. The technology stuff is more to do with automation these days, although a life time ago I would design from PCBs up things like microcontrollers, LAN systems, etc  and bring them to market... it requires a grounded indoctrination in logic and engineering, which is probably why I like to mangle the bleeding obvious into something a little obtuse. 

Yes I have politics in my blood too and had the few rascal acquaintances.


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## luutzu (8 November 2015)

Tisme said:


> Double entendrepreneur !




Also James Bond too are you? "I thought Christmas only come once a year."... Some lady in the theatre was going, oh fark when he said that.  Sceptre out next week... 




> Have a few disciplines under my belt. The technology stuff is more to do with automation these days, although a life time ago I would design from PCBs up things like microcontrollers, LAN systems, etc  and bring them to market... it requires a grounded indoctrination in logic and engineering, which is probably why I like to mangle the bleeding obvious into something a little obtuse.
> 
> Yes I have politics in my blood too and had the few rascal acquaintances.




PCBs, the printed circuit boards, not the banned toxic chemical I just looked up? The latter would explain a lot 

But that's awesome. A real engineer.

Any tip on marketing? 
I thought all you'd need is build something cool and it sell itself. Spend months on marketing material and all I got is a bunch of words and some pictures


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## Tisme (9 November 2015)

luutzu said:


> Any tip on marketing?
> I thought all you'd need is build something cool and it sell itself. Spend months on marketing material and all I got is a bunch of words and some pictures




Did Marketing at a Brisbane Uni a fair while back. Most of it seemed to be maths, with calculus overlaying probability and statistics and econometrics. I'm lead to believe that has largely been replaced with the empirical modelling and hypothetically descriptive (bunch of words and pics) stuff; everyone passes and the unis get a bucket load of cash.

I take it you subscribed to the "build and they will come"  model? The proverbial Chinese rice bowl/clothes peg that everyone would flock to.

Forget about the SWATs, 4Ps, Box Jenkins. etc and concentrate first on why you think you have something that some people want. It may well be an item of beauty, but the trick is to consider "want" as the reason for the 80% of purchases and "need" as the excuse they use to purchase it, not to be confused with the 20% who might actually "need" it, but don't "want" to pay for it, and probably won't.

The good thing for you is that social media has opened a permanent portal to the world wide innovators and early adopters ..... go get 'em luutzu.


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## luutzu (9 November 2015)

Tisme said:


> Did Marketing at a Brisbane Uni a fair while back. Most of it seemed to be maths, with calculus overlaying probability and statistics and econometrics. I'm lead to believe that has largely been replaced with the empirical modelling and hypothetically descriptive (bunch of words and pics) stuff; everyone passes and the unis get a bucket load of cash.
> 
> I take it you subscribed to the "build and they will come"  model? The proverbial Chinese rice bowl/clothes peg that everyone would flock to.
> 
> ...




You mean all those times when I thought all I need to do to pass uni is just hand in the assignment and turn up to to finals because I'm special... that I wasn't special? All students passes?

Took a course in marketing, can't remember much beside what SWOT stands for and a line from Kohler that businesses spend about half of its time and effort in marketing. Didn't much appreciate that until now 

That want and need point is gold right there Tisme. Quite clever for a drunken Irish there man.

Yea, I'm from the build it and they'll rush to it school of thought. Where market research consists of me, myself and my own need... because who else in their right mind would not want this thing that I built? Add to that a marketing strategy that says "silly customers, you're doing it all wrong and this is the way it's done. Look at the few cents in my bank account that proves it" ... oh, then the marketing material from Olgilvy that's read like a fine print explaining everything... might need to add a few good looking, bare skin people on the poster or something.

Now really appreciate Churchill's the end is just the beginning; the end is not even the end and already it's a begining... the gaining of wisdom I guess.

oh, off topic, wrong post... well, maybe relevant under Welfare chaser, haha


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## Tisme (9 November 2015)

luutzu said:


> You mean all those times when I thought all I need to do to pass uni is just hand in the assignment and turn up to to finals because I'm special... that I wasn't special? All students passes?
> 
> Took a course in marketing, can't remember much beside what SWOT stands for and a line from Kohler that businesses spend about half of its time and effort in marketing. Didn't much appreciate that until now
> 
> ...




Can I make a small recommendation to get your product to market: watch this and fill in the blanks:


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## luutzu (9 November 2015)

Tisme said:


> Can I make a small recommendation to get your product to market: watch this and fill in the blanks:




haha.. but man, I live in Lakemba where the Lebs are.


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## Tisme (9 November 2015)

luutzu said:


> haha.. but man, I live in Lakemba where the Lebs are.




Maybe you should move to Vaucluse, Bondi, Randwick, Bondi, Double Bay or Darlinghurst then .


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## luutzu (9 November 2015)

Tisme said:


> Maybe you should move to Vaucluse, Bondi, Randwick, Bondi, Double Bay or Darlinghurst then .




But that's putting the cart before the horse, and I don't even have a mule at the moment 

But yes, can't have high-priced consultant all nervous and twitchy, thinking about life and death while meeting me at my place. Can't move outside the area because the safest place to be is often the most dangerous place to be.

Is there an Asian alternative? The Chinese seems to also be pretty good with numbers and money... The Viets can't do much aside from opening Pho noodle houses and fill in a couple legal forms...

There's not too many people left that I haven't insulted today    Equal opportunities they say.


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## Pager (14 November 2015)

The vast majority of the 800,000 migrants who have flooded into Europe this year are young muslim men.

What could possibly go wrong?


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## sptrawler (14 November 2015)

Pager said:


> The vast majority of the 800,000 migrants who have flooded into Europe this year are young muslim men.
> 
> What could possibly go wrong?




Unfortunately, that's what the French thought, sad times.


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## qldfrog (14 November 2015)

sptrawler said:


> Unfortunately, that's what the French thought, sad times.



Sadly, no one asked  the european their opinion before openning the gates which were already quite leaky..
More to come, The end of Europe.Only Russia can help them but being Russians, they can not be right as US knows and repeat so well


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## Pager (14 November 2015)

I just hope that the migrants Australia has agreed to take are background checked, and any doubt then entry is refused, I embrace multiculturalism but when it comes to Religion then sadly seeing events like that in Paris today makes me think we should now STOP Muslim migration to this country as the sad fact is it just doesn't mix with other religions that do have tolerance towards each other.


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## luutzu (14 November 2015)

Pager said:


> I just hope that the migrants Australia has agreed to take are background checked, and any doubt then entry is refused, I embrace multiculturalism but when it comes to Religion then sadly seeing events like that in Paris today makes me think we should now STOP Muslim migration to this country as the sad fact is it just doesn't mix with other religions that do have tolerance towards each other.




Every body gets checked. Even tourists and students get check and screened. And we all get checked and monitored even when we're not leaving or going anywhere.

I think we all would agree that we shouldn't be blamed for the actions of others with similar names or skin colour or speak the same language as we do, or pray to the same God. So you know...


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## qldfrog (14 November 2015)

luutzu said:


> I think we all would agree that we shouldn't be blamed for the actions of others with similar xxx, or pray to the same God. So you know...



The news is not even cold, please have some decency
This is where we differ so categorically and when i was talking about the enemy being at the border or within a few days ago.
The chineses communist party that you quoted is such a lesser thread to mankind.
Within a few days you will be back stating that the hordes invading Europe are just the poor victims of western hate policity, and complaining against the poor "refugees" yeah why not in Nauru

we as any non fanatical muslims, and you are included however colour of skin or religion you might be,  are in a war against a religion version: the one from mainly arab countries.
This religion version is openly supported by Saudis, Qatar and the emirates cliques(and so indirectly by the US: let's have open eyes) whose aim is to conquer or destroy; there is no place for any tolerance if you follow the book, and they do.
So yes a preacher in Riad is accomplice, as is a coranic school in london or paris, and as is any australian resident /citizen whose sister/wife is forced to wear a nihab: this is not a profession of faith, but a membership card to this extremism.
I am sad and angry, as this is just happening again and again(I remember the 80's bombing in the metro, the 2000 riots in France, Charlie Hebdo just a few months ago) and the doves will soon go back to their sweet dreams.
The front pictures on news will still show you a poor genuine refugee, a small girl crying ideally , hiding the 80% of muslim economic migrants, all young men coming in the west to pick the forbidden fruits sex, meterial good, alcohol and hating the west with a revenge;
they even open the flood gates in Europe


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## luutzu (14 November 2015)

qldfrog said:


> The news is not even cold, please have some decency
> This is where we differ so categorically and when i was talking about the enemy being at the border or within a few days ago.
> The chineses communist party that you quoted is such a lesser thread to mankind.
> Within a few days you will be back stating that the hordes invading Europe are just the poor victims of western hate policity, and complaining against the poor "refugees" yeah why not in Nauru
> ...





A lot of innocent people got killed today and that is outrageous and we all should be angry and want answers. But one of the decent things we can do is not to group and blame other innocent people for things they do not do and do not condone.


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## Logique (14 November 2015)

Pour les FranÃ§ais partout.


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## qldfrog (14 November 2015)

luutzu said:


> A lot of innocent people got killed today and that is outrageous and we all should be angry and want answers. But one of the decent things we can do is not to group and blame other innocent people for things they do not do and do not condone.



Luutzu, yes I have anger but I stand to my words:
"so yes a preacher in Riad is accomplice, as is a coranic school in london or Paris, and as is any australian resident /citizen whose sister/wife is forced to wear a nihab: this is not a profession of faith, but a membership card to this extremism."
You do not need to be holding a gun to be guilty.
Believe me, they are as much a thread to your kids as they are to mine and to anyone holding any of what should be universal value, starting by the rights of 50% (a bit more actually) of the earth population: women.
I stop there, this is not the right thread nor the right time for me to engage into discussion on the gangrene of the world.


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## Pager (14 November 2015)

luutzu said:


> I think we all would agree that we shouldn't be blamed for the actions of others with similar names or skin colour or speak the same language as we do, or pray to the same God. So you know...




No we shouldnt but its a sad reflection of what the world is becoming because of a radical fringe, Be nice though if the Muslim community could be a bit more vocal about there opposition to these terrorist acts, show some backbone and commit to outing and getting rid of there radical fringe, maybe Muslim leaders and those in a position to have there voice heard keep quiet for fear of becoming targets themselves?

But I shouldn’t really say that, its racist, islamaphobic or whatever those trying to deny what’s going want to call it.


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## luutzu (14 November 2015)

qldfrog said:


> Luutzu, yes I have anger but I stand to my words:
> "so yes a preacher in Riad is accomplice, as is a coranic school in london or Paris, and as is any australian resident /citizen whose sister/wife is forced to wear a nihab: this is not a profession of faith, but a membership card to this extremism."
> You do not need to be holding a gun to be guilty.
> Believe me, they are as much a thread to your kids as they are to mine and to anyone holding any of what should be universal value, starting by the rights of 50% (a bit more actually) of the earth population: women.
> I stop there, this is not the right thread nor the right time for me to engage into discussion on the gangrene of the world.




The terrorists and criminal does not share our values, yes I agree. And don't take what I say as excusing theirs or anyone else's violence. Have said before, violence will not solve anything; and to take the live of innocent people like that, that's inexcusable.

It's easy to blame a religion or a culture, but when we take a step back we know it's not. 

If Islam preaches them to violence and to hate the West... they'd do it everyday, five times a day after prayer... and all 1 billion of them. Most of us and most of them just want to get on with our lives and do not condone these kind of barbarism.

Should you and I be blamed or held accountable for what some warmongers or other criminals do? Why should the other Muslims be blamed for what these terrorists did?


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## sptrawler (14 November 2015)

luutzu said:


> The terrorists and criminal does not share our values, yes I agree. And don't take what I say as excusing theirs or anyone else's violence. Have said before, violence will not solve anything; and to take the live of innocent people like that, that's inexcusable.
> 
> It's easy to blame a religion or a culture, but when we take a step back we know it's not.
> 
> ...




Luutzu, the problem is, most of the radical acts of terrorism are being perpetrated by muslims. 
They are also happening, in countries, muslims wish to relocate to.
So it goes without saying, there will be backlash, which will force Governments to become more circumspect and sensitive about refugee issues.

This sort of behaviour, may be a ploy by radical muslims to alienate muslims, thereby making them bond more strongly together, who knows?

One thing that is becoming apparent, ISIS is painting a big bull's eye on themselves, which may end up with a combined World force going in to clear them out.

The down side to that is, it may well be exactly what ISIS wants, the infidel forming a crusade, history repeating.

As for the terrorists and criminals, not sharing your beliefs, not all Germans agreed with Hitler.

Problem is, no one wears a badge, to say I'm a non exploding muslim. 
Might sound out there,  but it unfortunately is ending up badly.

The only people who can stop the decline, are the muslim's themselves.


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## luutzu (14 November 2015)

sptrawler said:


> Luutzu, the problem is, most of the radical acts of terrorism are being perpetrated by muslims.
> They are also happening, in countries, muslims wish to relocate to.
> So it goes without saying, there will be backlash, which will force Governments to become more circumspect and sensitive about refugee issues.
> 
> ...




I don't want to be taken out of context; and to discuss politics, wars and its repercussions today is insensitive.

The reason terrorists against us are Muslims have a lot to do with us waging war on countries where Muslims happen to be. If we or anyone else wage war against Russians or Chinese or Indians or New Zealanders, you can bet there will be a bunch of those terrorists too.

So while Islam and Muslims seem to be the cause, the real cause is just war and the religion of the parties involved. In the end, as in all wars, innocent people like the French people today, and tomorrow more innocent Muslims, will pay for it.

----
Heard some lecture, maybe it was Chris Hedges, where he retell a passage by one of the prison psychologists at Nuremberg. The guy interview Nazi war criminals, its High Command... and in a conversion with Himler, I think, he asked why and how did the Nazi managed to convinced the German people to go along with the war and turn blind eyes to the murder of the Jews etc.

Himler said... no one want to go to war, the poor sloth farming the field.. .all he cares about is farming and minding his own business; he doesn't want to go fight or send his sons to die. So we have to convince him. 

We have to tell the people that we go to war because the enemy is coming for us, because they are evil and we must sacrifice for the Fatherland etc. etc.


Same with Imperial Japan... they didn't think they were murdering and colonising and raping all of Asia. They say they were benevolent and want to bring Asian out of the dark ages and be rich and englightened they they are.


In the end, we're just all a bunch of farmers trying to live our lives but others have better and bigger plans that need our blood and treasure to carry it out. To start believing that an entire people and their funny clothes and crazy religion is murderous.. that's the first big step on that march to endless violence serving no one but arms manufacturers, war profiteers and a bunch of warmongers.


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## sptrawler (15 November 2015)

luutzu said:


> I don't want to be taken out of context; and to discuss politics, wars and its repercussions today is insensitive.
> 
> The reason terrorists against us are Muslims have a lot to do with us waging war on countries where Muslims happen to be. If we or anyone else wage war against Russians or Chinese or Indians or New Zealanders, you can bet there will be a bunch of those terrorists too.
> 
> ...




I don't disagree with you, it will all end badly, the only people who do well out of war, is big business.:1zhelp:


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## banco (15 November 2015)

luutzu said:


> The terrorists and criminal does not share our values, yes I agree. And don't take what I say as excusing theirs or anyone else's violence. Have said before, violence will not solve anything; and to take the live of innocent people like that, that's inexcusable.
> 
> It's easy to blame a religion or a culture, but when we take a step back we know it's not.
> 
> ...




For me it comes down to if you get a barrel of apples and 10 are rotten do you keep them because the other 90 are good or send them back? As far as I'm concerned if 5%-10% of muslim  immigrants and their offspring are going to cause problems (and I don't just mean terrorism) they can stay where they are. There's no shortage of immigrant groups (chinese, korean etc.) who are far, far less trouble.


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## SirRumpole (15 November 2015)

Put safety before multiculturalism and stop immigration from Muslims countries is my advice.

Of course you can't blame the majority for the actions of a few, but the fact is that Islam is a poisonous ideology enforced on people from the cradle and enforced later in life by threats, intimidation and violence against people who criticise Islam or want to leave it.

We just don't need or want this form of enforced cultural and intellectual slavery in this country.


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## bellenuit (15 November 2015)

What saddens me most about the reactions of some on the left (the PC ideologues) is that they will grab the most tenuous link regarding the actions or words of their idealogical enemy as proof beyond a shred of doubt that that person/group is part of some nefarious conspiracy, yet will jump over hoops and loops to deny the blatantly obvious when it comes to those who are either in their own camp or outside their own camp but are not defined as the "real" baddies in their PC world view.

Thus we have the "nothing to do with religion" brigade who use perverted logic that religion couldn't be the cause because others of that same religion (as if it were monolithic) haven't killed anyone or there are parts of the religious text that forbids such actions (ignoring completely the parts that demand such actions).

You would have to be brain dead to deny that these actions were done in the name of Islam. It doesn't matter that most Muslims condemn the actions and some will even selectively quote from the Koran to show why those actions are not "legitimately" Islamic. I read on Twitter yesterday a post which fully justified these actions based on Koranic text and those of the Hadith which was countered by many with the same answer: "the actions are only applicable when at war". Those naive people fail to see that ISIS regard themselves as at war, so their actions are completely legitimate in their opinion.

But the reason I use strong terms like brain dead to those who deny the religious link to the actions, to those same people who use the most tenuous link as absolute proof when it suits their purpose, is that ISIS themselves have stated in unambiguous words the reasons for their actions and to deny the religious motivation is just absurd.

*In the Name of Allah, the Most Merciful, the Most Beneficent

Allah (ta'ala) said, They thought that their fortresses would protect them from Allah but Allah came upon them from where they had not expected, and He cast terror into their hearts so they destroyed their houses by their own hands and the hands of the believers. So take warning, O people of vision [Al-Hashr:2].

In a blessed battle whose causes of success were enabled by Allah, a group of believers from the soldiers of the Caliphate (may Allah strengthen and support it) set out targeting the capital of prostitution and vice, the lead carrier of the cross in Europe ”” Paris. This group of believers were youth who divorced the worldly life and advanced towards their enemy hoping to be killed for Allah's sake, doing so in support of His religion, His Prophet (blessing and peace be upon him), and His allies. They did so in spite of His enemies. Thus, they were truthful with Allah ”” we consider them so ”” and Allah granted victory upon their hands and cast terror into the hearts of the crusaders in their very own homeland.

And so eight brothers equipped with explosive belts and assault rifles attacked precisely chosen targets in the center of the capital of France. These targets included the Stade de France stadium during a soccer match ”” between the teams of Germany and France, both of which are crusader nations ”” attended by the imbecile of France (Francois Hollande). The targets included the Bataclan theatre for exhibitions, where hundreds of pagans gathered for a concert of prostitution and vice. There were also simultaneous attacks on other targets in the tenth, eleventh, and eighteenth districts, and elsewhere. Paris was thereby shaken beneath the crusaders' feet, who were constricted by its streets. The result of the attacks was the deaths of no less than two hundred crusaders and the wounding of even more. All praise, grace, and favor belong to Allah.

Allah blessed our brothers and granted them what they desired. They detonated their explosive belts in the masses of the disbelievers after finishing all their ammunition. We ask Allah to accept them amongst the martyrs and to allow us to follow them.

Let France and all nations following its path know that they will continue to be at the top of the target list for the Islamic State and that the scent of death will not leave their nostrils as long as they partake in the crusader campaign, as long as they dare to curse our Prophet (blessings and peace be upon him), and as long as they boast about their war against Islam in France and their strikes against Muslims in the lands of the Caliphate with their jets, which were of no avail to them in the filthy streets and alleys of Paris. Indeed, this is just the beginning. It is also a warning for any who wish to take heed.

Allah is the greatest.

(And to Allah belongs all honor, and to His Messenger, and to the believers, but the hypocrites do not know) [Al-Munafiqun: 8].*


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## pixel (15 November 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> Put safety before multiculturalism and stop immigration from Muslims countries is my advice.
> 
> Of course you can't blame the majority for the actions of a few, but the fact is that Islam is a poisonous ideology enforced on people from the cradle and enforced later in life by threats, intimidation and violence against people who criticise Islam or want to leave it.
> 
> *We just don't need or want this form of enforced cultural and intellectual slavery in this country*.




Let's just analyse that and put it in perspective. Maybe look at another belief system.

A good many people believe in - and fight for with legal and economic sanctions - everybody's right to profit from marketing and selling goods and services. Let's call this the Religion of Free Enterprise. This religion is instilled in "people from the cradle and enforced later in life by threats, intimidation and violence against people who criticise" it. Note that threats can take many forms, and affect the victims equally hard, be they loss of property, livelihood, loved ones, or life.

Read about 1000 victims of CBA fraud: http://www.bankvictims.com.au/commonwealth-bank-of-australia
Read about 15 Australians dying each day: http://theconversation.com/australias-daily-alcohol-toll-15-deaths-and-430-hospitalisations-29906
Read about the number of gun deaths: http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-shooting-terrorism-gun-violence/





*None of the above excuses the deliberate actions of a small minority of extremists* that bring death and misery to Millions. But there is no justification for calls to ban one religion for the atrocities perpetrated in its name, yet ignoring the misery caused by another. 

224 Russian tourists killed in a plane crash, hundreds shot at a concert, and the affected States maintain three days of national mourning. Such single events are spectacular and shocking. But spread over 365 days, even hundred times the number hardly rates a mention.

not excusing either ... just sayin ...


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## pixel (15 November 2015)

pixel said:


> not excusing either ... just sayin ...




So much for the similarities. Now let's look at the differences:

After a number of years, CBA fraudsters are at last brought before the Courts; that will be cold comfort to the families that lost their properties, even loved ones. There will also be apologists that accuse alcohol and gambling addicts of character weakness, claiming nobody "forced them" - implying everybody has a choice to say No.

The fact remains, however, that modern marketing psychologists use the same indoctrination techniques that the "Prophets" have been applying through the ages: Implant their type of belief system into the developing brains from early childhood, and you have the vast majority of them for life. The few non-believers are easily eliminated: Chop off their hands or heads in one system, put them in prison or deport them to Botany Bay, or try and "re-educate" dissidents in Gulags or labour camps.

Where the "Religion of Free Enterprise" seems to differentiate itself from especially the Islam: It accepts the wisdom of new "Prophets" that suggest modifications and adapt to changed circumstances. Thereby it creates a moving target for dissidents, even renounces earlier doctrines if they prove counterproductive. You can't get any more profit from a dead consumer, so it's better to let them live; even in jail there's money to be made, e.g. by outsourcing guards and administration, demanding all mod cons in prison cells - let it be paid for by Taxes.

Islam, on the other hand, is relying on Mohamed's early version of "Mein Kampf", which is equally open to interpretation, but, unfortunately, didn't suffer the same fate as the more recent version penned by the Austrian-born megalomaniac. While the guardians of almost every version of Islam have condemned recent extremism publicly, their reaction doesn't go as far as accepting the need for a revision of the original text. Instead of joining the efforts to extinguish the fires in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, ... Saudi Arabia for example offers to fund 300 new mosques to be built in Germany alone; and their condemnation of the terror attacks sounds very hollow compared to their feeble or non-existent attempts to curb the flow of funds and weapons into ISIL.

IMHO, the much-quoted "Humanity" needs to adopt a coordinated diplomatic and economic approach: *Reform or remain isolated.* The ideals of humane tolerance - "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity" - can only be applied to countries that reciprocate. Those that refuse may well be left on their own: No cross-border traffic, no commerce, no contact.

Of course, it may be too late for that approach, and the West will rather risk self-destruction by rescuing those Millions of poor refugees. To some extent, the "Coalition of the Willing" must accept some blame for the radicalisation in the wake of their 2003 invasion. But the population in those regions needs to make the effort to help themselves - especially the young able-bodied men.


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## SirRumpole (15 November 2015)

While I agree that "competition policy" may be similar to a religion and I certainly don't agree with the relentless privatisation of social services like health insurance, electricity, banking and education we do live in a democracy that can challenge these values and reverse their effects if this is what is publicly desired.

Islam is not a democracy, it's an autocracy with a few mullahs directing the reasoning powers of a large number of people for their own ends. The religion is the State and contrary views are not countenanced. The ultimate examples are Iran and Saudi Arabia, dissent is punished by torture and death.

So really, although comparisons may exist between religious and economic ideologies they are fairly tenuous when it comes to comparing secular democracies (that at least have some laws to protect the public from the worst effects of ideology) with theocracies that have no protection from their own ideologies and don't recognise basic freedoms like freedom of speech , association and religion.


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## pixel (15 November 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> So really, although comparisons may exist between religious and economic ideologies they are fairly tenuous when it comes to comparing secular democracies (that at least have some laws to protect the public from the worst effects of ideology) with theocracies that have no protection from their own ideologies and don't recognise basic freedoms like freedom of speech , association and religion.




Agree, Sir R; that is the essence of my second post. 
Islam is at a similar stage as the Catholic Church was 6-700 years ago. Dissidents burned on the stakes; critics tortured on the rack; pagans massacred.
The respective sky fairies people are made to believe in may differ, but the methods of enforcement have remained the same. The Islamic world needs a Martin Luther and/or enlightened reformer to avoid self-destruction. That reformation has to come from within; secular democracies on the outside have little or no influence.


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## luutzu (15 November 2015)

sptrawler said:


> I don't disagree with you, it will all end badly, the only people who do well out of war, is big business.:1zhelp:




It will all end badly if we let it.

Watch how over the next few days and weeks, watch how the murder of innocent Parisian will be used to further advanced politicians and armed dealers interests. I'm willing to bet Israel's Netanyahu will make another trip to Paris, speak to a few Jewry French, fly home and beat up some more Palestinians.

Then watch the jets over Syria and other ME countries... then the guys that planned the Paris attackers will use it and recruit... and on and on.

"Never let a tragedy go to waste" as they say. Crazies.


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## Wysiwyg (15 November 2015)

sptrawler said:


> The Italian, English, Polish, Lithuanian, Vietnamese, and other migrants, have added a lot to Australian culture and prosperity.



Thankfully they didn't bring any garbage religious belief or death wish vengeance. They dressed casually, they accepted the Australian way of life, they mingled, liked a beer and a laugh and made better lives for themselves with no hidden agenda.


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## Gringotts Bank (15 November 2015)

Governments aren't going to be able to find a solution, unfortunately.

The first step is to understand that the thoughts which we have are mostly not our own.

*ELEPHANT.*

I type or say the word "elephant" and you have *no choice * but to have that same thought register in your mind, along with subconscious images and sounds and maybe smells of an elephant.  Not only that, but your subconscious will register a whole range of associated thoughts, such as 'Africa', 'savanna', 'lion', 'zebra'... or whatver your particular associations might be.  *You had no control over this.  I created the thought in your mind by typing it*, just as you create thoughts in my mind when I read what you write.  How's that for power?  

Is there such a thing as a spoken truth?  Or is everything opinion?  If it's just opinion, how much is it worth?  And yet, looking at what happened in Paris, we know thoughts are extremely powerful and extremely dangerous *when they are believed*.  What would have happened if you were born to Muslim-Iranian parents?  Can you imagine how poisoned your mind would be?

Knowing this, it's possible to start the process of watching the mind, seeing how it works.  This is the real solution.  We think that we think our thoughts, but that's rarely the case.  They are not our will, just a reflex.  Occasionally, a very advanced person, (an Einsten, a Buddha, a Jesus, a Da Vinci) has an original thought.  And we parrot it, misinterpert it, screw it right up...

A good experiment is to doubt all thoughts.  Take both sense and nonsense and treat them with equal disrespect.


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## luutzu (15 November 2015)

banco said:


> For me it comes down to if you get a barrel of apples and 10 are rotten do you keep them because the other 90 are good or send them back? As far as I'm concerned if 5%-10% of muslim  immigrants and their offspring are going to cause problems (and I don't just mean terrorism) they can stay where they are. There's no shortage of immigrant groups (chinese, korean etc.) who are far, far less trouble.




You pick a barrel of any group of people and there'll be a few bad ones there; Put that barrel under certain condition and the fresher ones will become rotten too.

Again, I have never excuse any kind of violence... people should, I think we'd all agree, find peaceful ways to resolve their differences and any perceive injustices.

We're all different and at the same time also all the same. I bet you you could never remove the differences between any two person.


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## luutzu (15 November 2015)

bellenuit said:


> What saddens me most about the reactions of some on the left (the PC ideologues) is that they will grab the most tenuous link regarding the actions or words of their idealogical enemy as proof beyond a shred of doubt that that person/group is part of some nefarious conspiracy, yet will jump over hoops and loops to deny the blatantly obvious when it comes to those who are either in their own camp or outside their own camp but are not defined as the "real" baddies in their PC world view.
> 
> Thus we have the "nothing to do with religion" brigade who use perverted logic that religion couldn't be the cause because others of that same religion (as if it were monolithic) haven't killed anyone or there are parts of the religious text that forbids such actions (ignoring completely the parts that demand such actions).
> 
> ...




If we take away the Koran and Islam, or if we imagine such religion never existed and have everything remaining the same... will the terrorists do the same thing they do - just pray to a different God or call themselves a different people?

It's not about PC... just facts. And PC does not just extend to criticism of Islam either... there too are things we ought not say about ourselves and our gov't.


----------



## Wysiwyg (15 November 2015)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Governments aren't going to be able to find a solution, unfortunately.
> 
> The first step is to understand that the thoughts which we have are mostly not our own.
> 
> *ELEPHANT.*



I saw this word and immediately jumped out of my seat and walked around the room with an arm dangling in front of my nose and swinging to and fro while making strange noises.  Your knowledge of the subconscious mind is exceptional.  :kiffer:


----------



## Dividend (15 November 2015)

Religion of Peace.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (15 November 2015)

Wysiwyg said:


> I saw this word and immediately jumped out of my seat and walked around the room with an arm dangling in front of my nose and swinging to and fro while making strange noises.  Your knowledge of the subconscious mind is exceptional.  :kiffer:




But the word 'elephant' stuck in your mind long enough to write that reply.  Maybe longer.  Maybe it's there again right now.  See how easy that is?  Now say I use some trickery - maybe I could get that word to trunk there all day.  Religions use such hypnotic techniques unconsciously (meaning they believe what they preach).  Grey, wrinkly Prime Ministers and the media are a bit smarter.  They're not afraid of mice.  Big business is the heaviset of all - they can get you thinking whatever they want.  The only defense is awareness.  It's that same awareness I was trying to ignite in you, but you seem to have missed the point... Tsk, tusk.

Or maybe you're just having some fun.  If so, fine.


----------



## banco (15 November 2015)

luutzu said:


> You pick a barrel of any group of people and there'll be a few bad ones there; Put that barrel under certain condition and the fresher ones will become rotten too.
> 
> Again, I have never excuse any kind of violence... people should, I think we'd all agree, find peaceful ways to resolve their differences and any perceive injustices.
> 
> We're all different and at the same time also all the same. I bet you you could never remove the differences between any two person.




The "bad apple" muslims are of a different type than any other from migrant groups.  Worst we got from other migrant groups was some crime.


----------



## Wysiwyg (15 November 2015)

Gringotts Bank said:


> But the word 'elephant' stuck in your mind long enough to write that reply.  Maybe longer.  Maybe it's there again right now.  See how easy that is?  Now say I use some trickery - maybe I could get that word to stick there all day..



The question at the forefront of my mind now is ..... 

Are you really Peter Powers?


----------



## Gringotts Bank (15 November 2015)

Wysiwyg said:


> The question at the forefront of my mind now is .....
> 
> Are you really Peter Powers?




Just trying to pull my own strings here.

As Ivor E. White used to say "Now you can't forget".

Not that it's a problem.  From now on, whenever you see or hear the word elephant, you will feel amazing.  So good in fact, you can't help but trade well.  Not much you can do about it.


----------



## luutzu (15 November 2015)

banco said:


> The "bad apple" muslims are of a different type than any other from migrant groups.  Worst we got from other migrant groups was some crime.




There are plenty of Muslim small time crooks and shifty tradies too... not all their criminals are terrorists.

Seriously though, terrorism is way too serious to slap some simple explanation on then just go to war and show them we're much tougher and deadlier.

If we think that Islam and Muslims are responsible for terrorism... then the solution is pretty simple: either with us or against us; either abandon your faith, join ours or else; go march and liberate at all costs... but when some of them flee to us seeking refuge, close the gates because we can't be sure etc.

Losing our freedom, privacy and humanity is one thing if it keeps us safe and stop the terrorists; just it'd be a real personal tragedy to lose all that and maybe our kingdom too because we let pride and emotion take over.


----------



## luutzu (15 November 2015)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Just trying to pull my own strings here.
> 
> As Ivor E. White used to say "Now you can't forget".
> 
> Not that it's a problem.  From now on, whenever you see or hear the word elephant, you will feel amazing.  So good in fact, you can't help but trade well.  Not much you can do about it.




Stop playing with our mind man


----------



## Wysiwyg (15 November 2015)

Gringotts Bank said:


> J
> Not that it's a problem.  From now on, whenever you see or hear the word elephant, you will feel amazing.  So good in fact, you can't help but trade well.  Not much you can do about it.




Thank you for the blessing. 

Kind Regards,
Elephant Man.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (15 November 2015)

luutzu said:


> Stop playing with our mind man




Sorry.  I never usually do this sort of thing without permission, but it was all positive and light-hearted.  The idea of manipulation is something I really dislike.  I wanted to bring awareness to it.

WYSIWYG is aware I'm playing around.  It won't affect him.  Awareness stops the process.


----------



## Tisme (15 November 2015)

luutzu said:


> There are plenty of Muslim small time crooks and shifty tradies too... not all their criminals are terrorists.
> 
> .




You know this how?


----------



## luutzu (15 November 2015)

Tisme said:


> You know this how?




Same way I know that not all Irish are with the IRA. Or am I wrong?

Had close encounters with a couple Middle-Eastern looking criminals a while back... but the tradies are generally good, I never had any problem with them but others I know have.


----------



## luutzu (15 November 2015)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Sorry.  I never usually do this sort of thing without permission, but it was all positive and light-hearted.  The idea of manipulation is something I really dislike.  I wanted to bring awareness to it.
> 
> WYSIWYG is aware I'm playing around.  It won't affect him.  Awareness stops the process.




So... I am not currently aware that you're manipulating me... does it then mean that you are manipulating me?


----------



## Gringotts Bank (16 November 2015)

luutzu said:


> So... I am not currently aware that you're manipulating me... does it then mean that you are manipulating me?




No.  I made those little language changes in the posts to WYSIWYG obvious enough so that people could see what was going on.  They weren't particularly sophisticated, but even at that low level, something happened.  Even just pretending to be an authority on the subject can have quite an effect.  If one was to add in personal presence, a commanding tone of voice, some followers, suddenly it's a very big deal... out of thin air.  

We all influence each other constantly, and a lot of the time it's an unconscious or unintentional thing.  People with certain attributes seem to be much more influential than others.  And a huge proportion of the population will follow such people.  Apple stores are a good example.  The staff are like smiling wind-up toys, and the customers just sort of follow along because that's what the advertisements and social media told them to do.  Someone is running this show!  Crowds and crowds of people in every store, every day of the week.  

But the point of all this was to say that it is extremely easy to be negatively influenced, and this is where religious terrorism comes from.  And the only way to combat this properly is to understand:

1) most of our thoughts are not truly our own; they happen to us (as I showed).
2) awareness can create perspective about how/why certain thoughts arise 
3) having distance between self and thoughts tends to greatly reduce their influence

Then you choose which thoughts are useful and health-promoting, and disregard those that aren't.  Easy to say, hard to do.  If you look at some of my posts, you'll notice where I lose perspective!  Not hard to see.


----------



## qldfrog (16 November 2015)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Easy to say, hard to do.



Indeed, the path to enlightment is not an easy one, anger rage etc etc and that is for the more obvious
And I dare to suggest that uneducated masses are even more easily tricked....But I do not consider this an excuse nor a reason to not take drastic if needed actions [ to go back to the subject of this thread.]


----------



## Tisme (16 November 2015)

luutzu said:


> Same way I know that not all Irish are with the IRA. Or am I wrong?
> 
> .




Well they did write the book on blowing up and terrorizing. They did go out and spread the oppressive Catholic religion after doing such a grand job in their own back yard. I'm not sure how a man who encouraged his Sein Fein underlings to murder innocent people gets voted in a parliament, but their must be a majority view for that to happen.

Most civilisations tend to evolve, but there are those that devolve relative to others. We all know who the bloodlust vandals are, we are just in denial that there are so many of the animals galvanised by the deception of a spiteful religion. They parade around in their uniforms before our very eyes, they even get the same haircuts ffs, they behave like a pack of hyenas when their is a kill opportunity, they emulate a wolf pack big happy family mixing play with savagery, they live apart but raid the welfare of others, they are vocal about their skylord but say nothing about the arseh0les they have raised all by themselves in their fortress ghettos who feed on hate masquerading as peace.

These people are are what Christians would have labelled as satanic and I suspect there are enough of those old skool bible bashers in French power to wage a colonial style vengeance against the heartlands and nurseries of the filth that is permeating the world, that we haven't seen from them in a long time. Stubborn lot those French. 

The tribe has such a strong pull. For example, I reckon if someone tried to invade Scotland half the male population of the commonwealth countries and probably the other half would jump on ships to defend it ...everyone has Scottish and Irish bloodlines it seems, the difference is that no sane person would defend the Irish given their penchant for either blowing people up or talking their heads off with alcohol fueled expletives


----------



## luutzu (16 November 2015)

Tisme said:


> Well they did write the book on blowing up and terrorizing. They did go out and spread the oppressive Catholic religion after doing such a grand job in their own back yard. I'm not sure how a man who encouraged his Sein Fein underlings to murder innocent people gets voted in a parliament, but their must be a majority view for that to happen.
> 
> Most civilisations tend to evolve, but there are those that devolve relative to others. We all know who the bloodlust vandals are, we are just in denial that there are so many of the animals galvanised by the deception of a spiteful religion. They parade around in their uniforms before our very eyes, they even get the same haircuts ffs, they behave like a pack of hyenas when their is a kill opportunity, they emulate a wolf pack big happy family mixing play with savagery, they live apart but raid the welfare of others, they are vocal about their skylord but say nothing about the arseh0les they have raised all by themselves in their fortress ghettos who feed on hate masquerading as peace.
> 
> ...





Who could defend the Irish? There's the firey head hair and freckles; then there's the thick accent you wouldn't know what they're saying even on the rare occasions when they're sober 

I thought the Hebrews were the earliest terrorists. Don't blame me, Christian Bale said it.. .and he's Moses.

I didn't get the other stuff you were saying... maybe one of those episodes we tend to have after a night out McGregor?

Speaking of fighting for the homeland... when China sent in one of its oil rigs and Vietnam got all patriotic... there's this VNese Admiral, in Vietnam, asking us overseas Vnese to think of the Motherland and send back money. Yea... nice try comrade. Maybe stop sending your kids on overseas "education" with all that loot and build a few schools for the people and maybe you could afford a frigate or two.


----------



## qldfrog (16 November 2015)

luutzu said:


> I thought the Hebrews were the earliest terrorists.



Actually true the sionism movement initiated terrorism in the modern way with a bombing in Jerusalem targetting the british
but the concept is not new Sarajevo murder sparkling WWI is an older example as were anarchist bombs in Paris at the end of the 1800's What is new is the welcoming of your own murderers on a scale of a continent and the obstination to deny reality when it does not fit the idealism you preach, time after time, in France since the 1980's


----------



## McLovin (16 November 2015)

qldfrog said:


> Actually true the sionism movement initiated terrorism in the modern way with a bombing in Jerusalem targetting the british
> but the concept is not new Sarajevo murder sparkling WWI is an older example as were anarchist bombs in Paris at the end of the 1800's What is new is the welcoming of your own murderers on a scale of a continent and the obstination to deny reality when it does not fit the idealism you preach, time after time, in France since the 1980's




My great-great-great grandfather would dispute that timeline. Family lore has it that he was part of the Irish Republican Brotherhood that organised the dynamite campaign of bombing across Britain in the 1880s. He had reasons for leaving Ireland and moving to Australia, beyond the sunny weather and abundance of potatoes.


----------



## Tisme (16 November 2015)

McLovin said:


> My great-great-great grandfather would dispute that timeline. Family lore has it that he was part of the Irish Republican Brotherhood that organised the dynamite campaign of bombing across Britain in the 1880s. He had reasons for leaving Ireland and moving to Australia, beyond the sunny weather and abundance of potatoes.





One of my Irish ancestors was chased by the English half way around the world in the early 1800's, where he finally gave them the slip in Jamaica. Imagine my dismay at not finding any evidence of African/Celtic hanky panky; which is so un Oirish given most of the Western Australian native population have either Irish or Scottish bloodlines .


----------



## luutzu (16 November 2015)

qldfrog said:


> Actually true the sionism movement initiated terrorism in the modern way with a bombing in Jerusalem targetting the british
> but the concept is not new Sarajevo murder sparkling WWI is an older example as were anarchist bombs in Paris at the end of the 1800's What is new is the welcoming of your own murderers on a scale of a continent and the obstination to deny reality when it does not fit the idealism you preach, time after time, in France since the 1980's




True. But I was referring to Moses, God and the ancient Egyptians.

Not true about refugees though.


----------



## McLovin (16 November 2015)

Tisme said:


> One of my Irish ancestors was chased by the English half way around the world in the early 1800's, where he finally gave them the slip in Jamaica. Imagine my dismay at not finding any evidence of African/Celtic hanky panky; which is so un Oirish given most of the Western Australian native population have either Irish or Scottish bloodlines .




Different era. Probably more fun too. If you went far enough the Empire forgot about you.

If you go back on the other side of my family tree, that is Iberian, there are records linking us back to the Pinzon brothers. That would've been a fun trip.


----------



## luutzu (16 November 2015)

The Aborigines never stood a chance did they?


----------



## Tisme (17 November 2015)

McLovin said:


> If you go back on the other side of my family tree, that is Iberian, there are records linking us back to the Pinzon brothers. That would've been a fun trip.




Did they speak with an American accent?

You must have some courageous genes in your makeup.


----------



## Tisme (17 November 2015)

Got this in emails this morning ....I'M SAVED! I'M SAVED!! All I need is a country where stoneage religions are banned.



> We assist with your migration inquiries
> 
> Dear sir/madam,
> 
> ...


----------



## qldfrog (17 November 2015)

luutzu said:


> True. But I was referring to Moses, God and the ancient Egyptians.
> 
> Not true about refugees though.



Refugees? What refugees?Is it santa claus yet?
anyway, when one does not want to see, one can not see!


----------



## luutzu (17 November 2015)

qldfrog said:


> Refugees? What refugees?Is it santa claus yet?
> anyway, when one does not want to see, one can not see!




Doing the right thing has never been easy.

In Syria alone, let's count how many countries are bombing the place since 2011 [?]... US, Australia, Canada [until recently i think], Russia, Assad, Syrian rebels and terrorists, Saudi Arabia, ISIS, Israel is keeping the engine running, and now France.. .or had France been part of the coalition all these time in Syria?

I'm surprised there's still anything left standing to bomb.

Were all Syrian out to get the West and only recently do they decided to cross into Europe? Maybe they're just seeking refuge from the constant and escalating bombings and some chemical warfare since 2011.


----------



## McLovin (18 November 2015)

Tisme said:


> Did they speak with an American accent?
> 
> You must have some courageous genes in your makeup.




I don't know about that, or maybe it skipped a generation! I am pretty good at reading a map though. 

I've never actually looked all that deeply into it, I just know that a great aunt in Spain with too much time on her hands, as great aunts often have, spent a few years looking into her ancestry. It could just be an story she made up so she has something to lord over the other ladies at chinchon.


----------



## Tisme (18 November 2015)

McLovin said:


> I don't know about that, or maybe it skipped a generation! I am pretty good at reading a map though.
> 
> I've never actually looked all that deeply into it, I just know that a great aunt in Spain with too much time on her hands, as great aunts often have, spent a few years looking into her ancestry. It could just be an story she made up so she has something to lord over the other ladies at chinchon.




spoken like a true self deprecating saltie.


----------



## Wysiwyg (19 November 2015)

luutzu said:


> The Aborigines never stood a chance did they?



What's with the laugh emoticon? Not something a real man would say to an Aborigine face to face!


----------



## Wysiwyg (19 November 2015)

Someone mentioned Eckart Tolle. Never heard of him before but this 11.44 min. video has some wisdom. There has gotta be compassion but the recipients have gotta be willing and able to assimilate. Will take time. And there is weeding out the nutcases.


----------



## luutzu (19 November 2015)

Wysiwyg said:


> What's with the laugh emoticon? Not something a real man would say to an Aborigine face to face!




Sorry man, you're right it could be taken the wrong way.

Was an ongoing joke I had at Tisme's Irish ancestry and IRA/Terrorist stuff they're known for (joke again).


And this is probably my own bad joke but was implying how the First Fleet were full of convicts, then came the Irish/IRA... hence the Aborigines never stood a chance. Yea... bad joke... apologies.


----------



## trainspotter (19 November 2015)

luutzu said:


> The Aborigines never stood a chance did they?




Really? Does Spain be held responsible to the Aztecs?


----------



## sptrawler (20 November 2015)

trainspotter said:


> Really? Does Spain be held responsible to the Aztecs?




Do we hold Italy responsible for invading the Celts in Britain, or the French for the Norman invasion of Britain, or Sweden for the Vikings early invasion of Britain and Ireland?
England should be suing everybody for, atrocities perpetrated against them.

Jeez, we really need to get over ourselves.

Thank God, we didn't lose the second World war.


----------



## luutzu (20 November 2015)

trainspotter said:


> Really? Does Spain be held responsible to the Aztecs?




Alright, i'll stop with these jokes. Should give me some benefit of the doubt though.


----------



## trainspotter (20 November 2015)

luutzu said:


> Alright, i'll stop with these jokes. Should give me some benefit of the doubt though.




Granted.


----------



## qldfrog (20 November 2015)

Dear all, with all due respect, I doubt this thread should be the place for much jokes; 
I feel in the same situation as the german jews in the 30's: their country was being eaten away by the brown plague and everyone, media included was unaware and celebrating the new nazi leaders, now this is taking place for a whole continent and we need a Churchill if it is not too late.
Only the ones who do not want to see do not see it.
The european left should be the first one to front it as it is an abomination of their professed values yet it is acting as the 5th column
Look at this very thread many responses.
Denials never based on facts but on goodwill, an image of humanitywrongly  assumed to be shared, and on propaganda media report.
This invasion took a long time to happen: more than 30y but the final assault was dealt this year. Hurry up if you want to visit the castles of Europe, and enjoy lake Como; I doubt your kids will be able as safely and they will not see much of the "good life" culture however this war with no name ends up


----------



## Tisme (20 November 2015)

luutzu said:


> Sorry man, you're right it could be taken the wrong way.
> 
> Was an ongoing joke I had at Tisme's Irish ancestry and IRA/Terrorist stuff they're known for (joke again).
> 
> ...




Yeah when's it going to stop luutzu! : You fricken new Australians and your rabid racism .... I was shocked luutzu, shocked. I had to have a Bex and a lay down


----------



## Tisme (20 November 2015)

trainspotter said:


> Really? Does Spain be held responsible to the Aztecs?




Well taking the lead of the gun lobby: Spaniards don't kill Aztecs, smallpox do.


And I suspect the shamrock aboriginals aren't too fussed about their Celtic/Euro fore fathers; their beef is likely more to do with recognition, frustration, discrimination and the poverty cycle. Their alleles are nought to do with their aboriginality.


----------



## trainspotter (20 November 2015)

Tisme said:


> Well taking the lead of the gun lobby: Spaniards don't kill Aztecs, smallpox do.
> 
> 
> And I suspect the shamrock aboriginals aren't too fussed about their Celtic/Euro fore fathers; their beef is likely more to do with recognition, frustration, discrimination and the poverty cycle. Their alleles are nought to do with their aboriginality.




You were -----}{----- this close


----------



## Tisme (20 November 2015)

trainspotter said:


> You were -----}{----- this close




Bases loaded?


----------



## luutzu (20 November 2015)

Tisme said:


> Yeah when's it going to stop luutzu! : You fricken new Australians and your rabid racism .... I was shocked luutzu, shocked. I had to have a Bex and a lay down




Yea... probably need to wait a couple generation for the rights. Maybe I should stop digging?   Lucky they didn't read the posts about Jews and Lebs, Chinese and Viets ey? haha... but to be fair, taken out of context and it's not at all funny.

But some talent you got there Tisme... how do keep friends with that kind of humour (and some of us don't)? Maybe in the delivery?


----------



## trainspotter (20 November 2015)

Let's look at a Panda shall we ?? It's black, it's white, it's Asian and a vegetarian. Pretty much covers all of it


----------



## DB008 (9 January 2016)

*Slovakia vows to refuse entry to Muslim migrants​*


> Responding to the sexual assaults in Cologne and Hamburg, Slovakian Prime Minister Robert Fico has reiterated his aim to allow no Muslims into the country. According to reports, some of the attackers were refugees.
> 
> Robert Fico said on Thursday that Slovakia would fight against immigration from Muslim countries to prevent attacks like last year's shootings in Paris and large-scale assaults of women in Germany, which took place on New Year's Eve.
> 
> ...







> *Multi-culturalism is a fiction'*
> 
> In light of the attacks, Fico told reporters that Bratislava would " never make a voluntary decision that would lead to the formation of a unified Muslim community in Slovakia."
> 
> ...





http://www.dw.com/en/slovakia-vows-to-refuse-entry-to-muslim-migrants/a-18966481​


----------



## DB008 (7 April 2016)

Sweden has gone down the toilet it seems....

*Swedish national police chief: - Can not guarantee the safety of the Swedish people anymore​*


> The Swedish national police chief, Dan Eliasson, said during a panel discussion recently that he is "surprised how bad it is" and that he "can not guarantee the safety" of residents in parts of Sweden anymore.
> 
> According to the Swedish newspaper Dagens Nyheter, Sweden now has 53 areas considered to be particularly infested with crime. Here, police has to respond to calls with two police cars, one to guard the other or it will go up in flames or be vandalized.
> 
> ...





http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.2498/swedish-national-police-chief-can-not-guarantee-the-safety-of-the-swedish-people-anymore.html#.VwKldqvMf9M.twitter​


----------



## DB008 (7 April 2016)

*Danish 17-year-old girl who used a pepper spray to fight off a rapist near migrant asylum centre is told SHE will be prosecuted for carrying the weapon​*


> A Danish teenager who was sexually assaulted near a migrant asylum centre has been told she will be prosecuted after using pepper spray to fend off her attacker.
> 
> The 17-year-old told police she was targeted in the coastal town of Sonderborg by an English-speaking man, who knocked her to the ground and tried to undress her.
> 
> ...





http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3418751/Danish-17-year-old-girl-used-pepper-spray-fight-rapist-near-migrant-asylum-centre-told-prosecuted-carrying-weapon.html​


----------



## DB008 (24 April 2016)

Are you surprised?

If the ALP get back in, National Security will be an issue here...

*Tracing the path of four terrorists sent to Europe by the Islamic State​*


> SALZBURG, Austria ”” On a crisp morning last October, 198 migrants arrived on the Greek island of Leros, all of them seemingly desperate people seeking sanctuary in Europe. But hiding among them were four men with a very different agenda.
> 
> The four were posing as war-weary Syrians ”” all carrying doctored passports with false identities. And they were on a deadly mission for the Islamic State.
> 
> ...





https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/how-europes-migrant-crisis-became-an-opportunity-for-isis/2016/04/21/ec8a7231-062d-4185-bb27-cc7295d35415_story.html​


----------



## DB008 (16 May 2016)

That's a lot of money...

*German government plans to spend 93.6 billion euros on refugees by end 2020: Spiegel​*


> Germany's government expects to spend around 93.6 billion euros by the end of 2020 on costs related to the refugee crisis, a magazine said on Saturday, citing a draft from the federal finance ministry for negotiations with the country's 16 states.





http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-costs-idUSKCN0Y50DY​


----------



## luutzu (16 May 2016)

DB008 said:


> That's a lot of money...
> 
> *German government plans to spend 93.6 billion euros on refugees by end 2020: Spiegel​*
> 
> ...




That is a lot of money. 

Sometime things are just unbelievable because it's not true. Maybe.


----------



## DB008 (1 June 2016)

*Mass sexual assault reported at music festival in Germany​*



> Eighteen women have said they were sexual assaulted at a music festival in Germany.
> 
> Three men from Pakistan aged between 28 and 31 have been arrested and police are still searching for three men who may also have been involved.
> 
> ...





http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-sexual-assault-music-festival-cologne-darmstadt-a7057416.html​


----------



## DB008 (1 June 2016)

*Dalai Lama says 'too many' refugees in Europe​*


> BERLIN: The Dalai Lama said in an interview published Thursday that Europe has accepted “too many” refugees, and that they should eventually return to help rebuild their home countries.
> 
> “When we look into the face of every single refugee, especially the children and women, we can feel their suffering,” said the Tibetan spiritual leader, who has himself lived in exile for over half a century.
> 
> ...




http://tribune.com.pk/story/1113521/dalai-lama-says-many-refugees-europe/​


----------



## sptrawler (1 June 2016)

DB008 said:


> *Dalai Lama says 'too many' refugees in Europe​*
> 
> 
> http://tribune.com.pk/story/1113521/dalai-lama-says-many-refugees-europe/​




The problem is, gradual integration over time, finds a compromise situation and common ground.

Mass immigration, causes skewed outcomes and disenfranchised minority groups, in numbers that can't be integrated.IMO

They then form isolated communities, that feel they are being treated unfairly, where the fact is there is insufficient jobs and welfare $ to cope with the influx.

The Dahlai Lama is only stating a fact, that socialists and reporters, are not prepared to acknowledge.


----------



## luutzu (1 June 2016)

sptrawler said:


> The problem is, gradual integration over time, finds a compromise situation and common ground.
> 
> Mass immigration, causes skewed outcomes and disenfranchised minority groups, in numbers that can't be integrated.IMO
> 
> ...




If the media and reporters are honest as we like to believe, they'd be calling the migrants "refugees". The reason only a handful of media outlets and reporter refer to them as that speaks volumn on the biases.


----------



## sptrawler (1 June 2016)

luutzu said:


> If the media and reporters are honest as we like to believe, they'd be calling the migrants "refugees". The reason only a handful of media outlets and reporter refer to them as that speaks volumn on the biases.




That still doesn't solve the problem, of what to do to resettle mass migrations of people, be they refugees or migrants.


----------



## luutzu (1 June 2016)

sptrawler said:


> That still doesn't solve the problem, of what to do to resettle mass migrations of people, be they refugees or migrants.




I think if the wars that's going on in the ME stops, the current crisis will also stop.

Syria is heating up again past few days; Falluja in Iraq is being pounded by US-Iraqi forces to root out ISIS - with entire city of some 50,000 being caught between the two... if the shells and white phosphorous don't kill them, the shortage of water, food and general illness will.

We are made to believe that the current refugee crisis is just another economic refugee/illegal immigrants problem. Not sure it's not widely reported how  many wars are going on in the ME/North Africa right now. 

The last time there's this many power fighting on this many countries across this many continents, we call it a world war. I don't think that's an exaggeration.


----------



## dutchie (2 June 2016)

The UK is a basket case.

Another Home Office farce to make your blood boil: Canadian family who run Monarch of the Glen shop are ordered to leave Britain... but a convicted Iraqi child abuser and an Albanian killer can stay

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...buser-Albanian-killer-stay.html#ixzz4AN3hIJjp

Stupid Poms.


----------



## Tisme (2 June 2016)

sptrawler said:


> The Italian, English, Polish, Lithuanian, Vietnamese, and other migrants, have added a lot to Australian culture and prosperity.
> 
> I'm yet to be convinced, the recent ethic influx, has the same work ethic.




Don't like Kiwis ?


----------



## DB008 (3 June 2016)

*Isis terror plot in Germany: Four Syrian men arrested for allegedly planning suicide bombings in DÃ¼sseldorf​*


> Four suspected Isis members have been arrested on accusations of planning a terror attack in Germany.
> 
> Three of the Syrian men were directly “commissioned” by the so-called Islamic State to launch suicide bombings in the city of DÃ¼sseldorf, prosecutors said.
> 
> ...






> They planned to deploy two suicide bombers on Heinrich-Heine-Allee street before more attackers killed as many passers-by as possible with guns and explosives.






> The alleged plot mirrors the format of Isis attacks in Paris and Brussels, which used suicide bombs and gunmen wearing explosive vests.




https://web.archive.org/web/20160603095602/https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/isis-terror-plot-in-germany-four-syrian-men-arrested-for-allegedly-planning-suicide-bombings-in-a7061356.html​


----------



## DB008 (10 June 2016)

Nice to see Europe changing....

*Waitress 'attacked by Muslim men for serving alcohol during Ramadan'​*


> A French waitress was allegedly assaulted by two Muslim men for serving alcohol during Ramadan.
> 
> The woman, a practising Muslim of Tunisian origin, was working on the terrace of the Vitis CafÃ© in Nice when she was reportedly insulted by two passers-by on Wednesday.
> 
> ...





http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/waitress-attacked-by-muslim-men-for-serving-alcohol-during-ramadan-a3267121.html​


----------



## DB008 (12 June 2016)

Sums it up....


​


----------



## luutzu (12 June 2016)

DB008 said:


> Sums it up....
> 
> View attachment 67086​




Ah K. 

So the Syrians are the Trojan horse.

What about the other Muslims/Arab immigrants and refugees that entered years and decades and generations before? They're waiting for the Syrians all these time, then they'll open the gates?

wait, I thought the gates had already been flung open these past couple years. And it's all the Greeks faults too, dam it!


----------



## qldfrog (13 June 2016)

eyh, I agree with Luutzu:
Syrian should be "Syrian" with the quote to ensure we do not forget Bangladesh, Pakistan and even Mongolia/West african,
The drawing is incorrect as there is no fortress/wall/fortification and indeed, the hords did not wait last year to start: most of the terrorists in Paris were born in France after their parents moved in 40 to 30 years ago: political refugees of one sort or another
just a continuation of the Jihad....
Luutzu, still scared to read the Koran and have to realise all these nasty racists anti muslims posters may not be completely wrong?
It takes courage to see reality and admit being wrong.Knowledge is the key, and knowledge is not always the ABC
I am sure your local library stores the "holy" book...Have a go, probably need not to read it all.
then we can have a debate


----------



## DB008 (27 September 2016)

Merkel is gone come next election in Germany.

Her party has a 17% vote in a recent survey


----------



## DB008 (28 October 2016)

Absolutely mind boggling

I would be livid

*Fury as German primary school ‘forces’ children to chant ‘Allahu Akbar’ in Muslim prayer​*


> PUPILS at a primary school were forced to chant "Allahu Akhbar" and “there is no God but Allah", an appalled father has claimed.
> 
> The father of the pupil at the girl's primary school in German ski resort Garmisch-Partenkirchen discovered that his daughter had been forced to learn the Islamic prayer when he discovered a handout she had been given.
> 
> ...




http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/725651/germany-migrants-allahu-akbar-muslim-christmas-islam-primary-school-pupils-angela-merkel​


----------



## DB008 (20 December 2016)

*Germany: No Doubt Berlin Crash Was a Terror Attack ​*http://bloom.bg/2h6Ksfp​
Attack overnight in Berlin. Refugee drives truck into X-Mas markets.

12 dead, 50 wounded. Merkel should go....


----------



## pixel (21 December 2016)

DB008 said:


> *Germany: No Doubt Berlin Crash Was a Terror Attack ​*http://bloom.bg/2h6Ksfp​
> Attack overnight in Berlin. Refugee drives truck into X-Mas markets.
> 
> 12 dead, 50 wounded. Merkel should go....




So, now it's Merkel's fault that some moron went on a killing spree?
Where was the suggestion that Howard should go after the Pt Arthur massacre? Or Abbott be ousted after the Lindt Cafe siege?
If Berlin has been a terrorist attack - and all signs point in that direction - all it proves is that those murderers don't want anybody to help their victims, nor care for help offered to them. All they want is carry their hatred and mayhem across the world. The world is overcrowded, and overcrowding breeds insanity.

PS I spent most of today on the phone and Skype to be sure that friends and families are safe. Thanks Goodness, they are. None of them blames Dr Merkel for what happened last night. Nobody draws a link between Germany's offering refuge and extremists' atrocities.
(OK, I didn't speak to everybody. There are some extreme right-wing Nazis coming out of their rat holes, who blame everything on everybody. But  they're rather a part of the problem, not the solution.)


----------



## qldfrog (21 December 2016)

pixel said:


> Nobody draws a link between Germany's offering refuge and extremists' atrocities.



If this is true, they need to have their head checked unless either the propaganda is that good or general thought process of the population is that lame.


----------



## SirRumpole (21 December 2016)

> A man arrested on suspicion of killing 12 people by mowing through a Berlin Christmas market in a truck has been released, Germany's Chief Federal Prosecutor's Office says.
> Key points:
> 
> Prosecutors say suspect made extensive statements but denied the offence
> ...




I guess all Pakistani refugees look the same


----------



## dutchie (21 December 2016)

pixel said:


> So, now it's Merkel's fault that some moron went on a killing spree?



 Yes



pixel said:


> Nobody draws a link between Germany's offering refuge and extremists' atrocities.





How many MORE atrocities before our leaders stop lying to us and admit that, thanks to their immigration policies, being mowed down while doing your Christmas shopping* is simply the new normal*?

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...shopping-simply-new-normal.html#ixzz4TPhDB429


----------



## DB008 (21 December 2016)

Pixel, l respectfully disagree with your views.

Opening the door to millions of people without background checks is very, very silly. Then, add a layer of poor education, language barriers and believing in a man made fantasy book and intolerance, well, you'll end up with serious problems


----------



## pixel (21 December 2016)

DB008 said:


> Pixel, l respectfully disagree with your views.
> 
> Opening the door to millions of people without background checks is very, very silly. Then, add a layer of poor education, language barriers and believing in a man made fantasy book and intolerance, well, you'll end up with serious problems




On those issues, we don't even disagree all that much, DB.
The administration of humanitarian efforts could and should have been planned and executed much better,
What I'm opposed to is the underlying assumption that the assault is Chancellor Merkel's fault and she should resign. With the same logic, one might blame our respective PMs for failing to protect the public better from what happened here.
By all means, have the Germans elect another government and Chancellor that sends all non-Christian, non-Aryan, non-National(ist) packing. It has been tried - but with arguable success...


----------



## SirRumpole (21 December 2016)

pixel said:


> On those issues, we don't even disagree all that much, DB.
> The administration of humanitarian efforts could and should have been planned and executed much better,
> What I'm opposed to is the underlying assumption that the assault is Chancellor Merkel's fault and she should resign. With the same logic, one might blame our respective PMs for failing to protect the public better from what happened here.
> By all means, have the Germans elect another government and Chancellor that sends all non-Christian, non-Aryan, non-National(ist) packing. It has been tried - but with arguable success...




While I admire Merkel for her charity, she has set her country up for big problems down the track unless there are plans in the wind for repatriation of refugees when and if the situation in their country is resolved.

Let's not fool ourselves,  there is a clash of cultures if a country is suddenly required to accept large numbers of people who have different cultural norms and education standards.

It's starting to become evident in Australia even though the population of Muslims is fairly low. It should be kept that way because Muslims are only too willing to enforce their ways on others as we have seen in Indonesia recently with the furore over the Christian mayor.


----------



## pixel (21 December 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> While I admire Merkel for her charity, she has set her country up for big problems down the track unless there are plans in the wind for repatriation of refugees when and if the situation in their country is resolved.
> 
> Let's not fool ourselves,  there is a clash of cultures if a country is suddenly required to accept large numbers of people who have different cultural norms and education standards.
> 
> It's starting to become evident in Australia even though the population of Muslims is fairly low. It should be kept that way because Muslims are only too willing to enforce their ways on others as we have seen in Indonesia recently with the furore over the Christian mayor.




Even on that score I can agree.
Democracy isn't the perfect form of government, but for people with a modicum of tolerance, it's arguably the fairest. Where people are taught from infanthood that everything happens because of the whim of a fairy head honcho in the sky, they're practically forbidden to think for themselves, but accept the will of their leader. Witness ban on girls' schooling in hard-line Muslim countries.
So, the stricter the interpretation of those fairy tales, the less suitable democratic principles will be.

Which leads me to believe that a dictatorship, like Hussein's, Sadat's, the Saudis, ... is more suited to Islamic countries, and we should never have meddled with their internal affairs and tried to force our Western "culture" on them.


----------



## luutzu (21 December 2016)

pixel said:


> Even on that score I can agree.
> Democracy isn't the perfect form of government, but for people with a modicum of tolerance, it's arguably the fairest. Where people are taught from infanthood that everything happens because of the whim of a fairy head honcho in the sky, they're practically forbidden to think for themselves, but accept the will of their leader. Witness ban on girls' schooling in hard-line Muslim countries.
> So, the stricter the interpretation of those fairy tales, the less suitable democratic principles will be.
> 
> Which leads me to believe that a dictatorship, like Hussein's, Sadat's, the Saudis, ... is more suited to Islamic countries, and we should never have meddled with their internal affairs and tried to force our Western "culture" on them.




It's the Chicken-Egg issue there Pixel.

Are the Arabs/Muslims so backwards and Allah-fearing, Koran bashing and just not democratic... are they and their country generally run by dictators and religious nuts because the dictator and religious nuts got the upper hand; or are they like that because they like to be ruled by a dictator, have no care for democracy and bikini wearing babes.

Just look at Iran, Afghanistan, Egypt etc. etc. The people (the Arabs) were pushing for secular and democratic rules in their country. They wanted a secular form of gov't; wanted their voices to be heard and the welfare of their country and people be looked after.

Guess what happened? Imperialism showed them how the real world works and so they either have to turn to Allah or find themselves in some cold dark places.

No one like to be ruled by a Saddam, Sadat or the bin Sauds. For one, who prop up those dics? for two, it's slightly better than having bombs and terrorists blowing things and people up everyday like Iraq, Yemen, Syria, Libya, Somalia... right now.


----------



## luutzu (21 December 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> While I admire Merkel for her charity, she has set her country up for big problems down the track unless there are plans in the wind for repatriation of refugees when and if the situation in their country is resolved.
> 
> Let's not fool ourselves,  there is a clash of cultures if a country is suddenly required to accept large numbers of people who have different cultural norms and education standards.
> 
> It's starting to become evident in Australia even though the population of Muslims is fairly low. It should be kept that way because Muslims are only too willing to enforce their ways on others as we have seen in Indonesia recently with the furore over the Christian mayor.




How is the Islamic plague evident in Australia? Because there's a few crazies among them?

There are no crazies among other cultural minority? No crazies among the White majorities?

I live among the Muslims and Arabs, have had them as contractors... they're hardworking, cheap and just as shifty as any trades and business people would if you'd let them get away with it.

I actually hired a guy to clean up a building site's rubbish. The work was quick, clean and cheap. He first take the rubbish to the tip, came back for the metals to sell, charge me the same price as a skip bin would cost. 

On hearing that I have an infant daughter he said, girls are the best. They're very good. They study hard, good to their parents. Much better than the boys. 

Then there are Arab women doctors and professionals around... anyway, let's go and take out more Muslim countries and show them how the civilised world works.


----------



## wayneL (21 December 2016)

pixel said:


> On those issues, we don't even disagree all that much, DB.
> The administration of humanitarian efforts could and should have been planned and executed much better,
> What I'm opposed to is the underlying assumption that the assault is Chancellor Merkel's fault and she should resign. With the same logic, one might blame our respective PMs for failing to protect the public better from what happened here.
> By all means, have the Germans elect another government and Chancellor that sends all non-Christian, non-Aryan, non-National(ist) packing. It has been tried - but with arguable success...




It's not about individual incidents Pixel, it is another trends.  Merckel et al Are largely responsible for the trend of Germans having to subjugate their own culture to pander to foreigners. 

Make no mistake, these atrocities are her fault,  as is the impending rise of the neonazi extreme right.


----------



## luutzu (21 December 2016)

wayneL said:


> It's not about individual incidents Pixel, it is another trends.  Merckel et al Are largely responsible for the trend of Germans having to subjugate their own culture to pander to foreigners.
> 
> Make no mistake, these atrocities are her fault,  as is the impending rise of the neonazi extreme right.




I always thought acts of terror are the fault of Terrorists. 

So if a terrorist is among the refugees, all migrants and refugees are at fault?

Is that the sledge hammer or the nuclear approach?


----------



## qldfrog (21 December 2016)

pixel said:


> Even on that score I can agree.
> Democracy isn't the perfect form of government, but for people with a modicum of tolerance, it's arguably the fairest. Where people are taught from infanthood that everything happens because of the whim of a fairy head honcho in the sky, they're practically forbidden to think for themselves, but accept the will of their leader. Witness ban on girls' schooling in hard-line Muslim countries.
> So, the stricter the interpretation of those fairy tales, the less suitable democratic principles will be.
> 
> Which leads me to believe that a dictatorship, like Hussein's, Sadat's, the Saudis, ... is more suited to Islamic countries, and we should never have meddled with their internal affairs and tried to force our Western "culture" on them.



So with an answer like that Pixel, which I agree 100% as to the root of the problem, how can you not see Merkkel as the agent of self destruction; she could have done filters/checks
Do a preference for the targetted minorities etc
Was she alone? of course not, a sane EU would have stop this in its tracks;But the economic lobbies are powerfull and with a bit of a push from the US, only too happy to send a competitor into oblivion...

The whole delution (sp?) of self endoctrined "socialism" [for a better word and not to be used the noco way]
aka LaLaLand government...So the Trump response....


----------



## SirRumpole (21 December 2016)

luutzu said:


> How is the Islamic plague evident in Australia? Because there's a few crazies among them?
> 
> There are no crazies among other cultural minority? No crazies among the White majorities?




I wouldn't say that there are 'no' crazies in any other groups, but it's hard to pick out another group that has so many crazies among them. Would you care to name any other subset of humanity that can be as identified as producing terrorists more than Muslims ?

I'm talking about today, not the Spanish Inquisition or the Roman Empire.


----------



## SirRumpole (21 December 2016)

> Female cyclist critically injured after 'horrendous, unprovoked' attack in North Melbourne
> 
> Updated 11 minutes ago
> Map: North Melbourne 3051
> ...




Most police forces in the country have Middle Eastern crime squads and it looks like we will need African crime squads soon.


----------



## luutzu (21 December 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> I wouldn't say that there are 'no' crazies in any other groups, but it's hard to pick out another group that has so many crazies among them. Would you care to name any other subset of humanity that can be as identified as producing terrorists more than Muslims ?
> 
> I'm talking about today, not the Spanish Inquisition or the Roman Empire.




Easy. Just pick any country where there's a war and you'll have an almighty "army" of civilisation - all nicely dressed and powerfully armed to the teeth - then you have pajama, towel rag wearing terrorist rebels.

So the war can be the IRA against the British peacekeepers; the VC against the Republic of South Vietnam; the Rebel Alliance against the Imperial power with its storm troopers, Darth Vader and Death Star.

Again, I'm not condoning any act of terrorism. But we're matured enough to have a proper discussion on matters of war and peace.

So what is terrorism? Killings by radical terrorists but not killing by "moderate" terrorists we support? Flying around other people's skies and drop a couple of Hellfire on whoever we feel is a threat - killing everything and everybody around that target whom we suspect might one day do harm to us. That's not terrorism?

Heck, most of the time those targets that got blown to bits aren't even terrorist or rebels or even the person that's being targeted. There are "signature" killings where we'd just drop a couple of peacekeepers on groups of Arabs standing around looking like they're planning something nasty - be it a wedding plan, or game of soccer or just old friends catching up and standing in circles.


----------



## SirRumpole (21 December 2016)

> Flying around other people's skies and drop a couple of Hellfire on whoever we feel is a threat - killing everything and everybody around that target whom we suspect might one day do harm to us. That's not terrorism ?




ISIS will kill or enslave civilians if we don't get them first. If we leave the civilians to their fate they will say the West doesn't care. It's not an easy choice but if you let crazies like ISIS get a foothold then they will eventually cause far worse destruction.


----------



## noco (21 December 2016)

pixel said:


> Even on that score I can agree.
> Democracy isn't the perfect form of government, but for people with a modicum of tolerance, it's arguably the fairest. Where people are taught from infanthood that everything happens because of the whim of a fairy head honcho in the sky, they're practically forbidden to think for themselves, but accept the will of their leader. Witness ban on girls' schooling in hard-line Muslim countries.
> So, the stricter the interpretation of those fairy tales, the less suitable democratic principles will be.
> 
> Which leads me to believe that a dictatorship, like Hussein's, Sadat's, the Saudis, ... is more suited to Islamic countries, and we should never have meddled with their internal affairs and tried to force our Western "culture" on them.




I agree with you and I have stated this very thing in the past.

Democracy will never work in Islamic ME countries...They were better off under the dictatorship of Hussein, Gadaffi and the like of others....Toe the line or face the firing squad.


----------



## wayneL (21 December 2016)

luutzu said:


> I always thought acts of terror are the fault of Terrorists.
> 
> So if a terrorist is among the refugees, all migrants and refugees are at fault?
> 
> Is that the sledge hammer or the nuclear approach?



If you let your child play with a tiger and the tiger eats your child, whose fault is it, Grasshopper ?


----------



## pixel (21 December 2016)

qldfrog said:


> So with an answer like that Pixel, which I agree 100% as to the root of the problem, how can you not see Merkkel as the agent of self destruction; she could have done filters/checks
> Do a preference for the targetted minorities etc
> Was she alone? of course not, a sane EU would have stop this in its tracks;But the economic lobbies are powerfull and with a bit of a push from the US, only too happy to send a competitor into oblivion...
> 
> ...




Chancellor Dr Merkel is the elected facilitator of a humanitarian majority, who saw Millions in need and reached out to help. Sure, in hindsight it's easy to find Could'ves, Should'ves and reasons why things Would've turned out differently. 
You mention the EU, which is a Union only in name, considering all the bickering and nimbyism of the member states. Would it have been more humane to let the refugees drown or send them back into ISIS Land? Today's Germans remember with horror what happened to Jews that were turned back by Switzerland and Great Britain. But that's history, and nobody likes to be reminded of historic events, especially when they're uncomfortable.

Yes, Dr Merkel grew up under a socialist regime in the Eastern part of Germany; but even at that time, Christian principles were upheld in sizeable sections of the population, paying lip service to the Powers That Be, and practicing their Faith in quiet. In case it got lost in translation: After the Unification, Dr Merkel joined, and in time became the leader of, the Christian Democrats, a centre-right party, comparable to the Liberals here, and pulled further to the right by their coalition partner, the Christian Socialist Union. The latter is an oxymoron if ever there was one. The CSU have their base nowhere but in in Bavaria, Germany's equivalent of Queensland. Look it up.

You mention Economic Lobbies too. Now there is a critical point. When Saddam Hussein threatened to sell Iraqi oil for Euros, the US Finance and Oil Lobby saw an opportunity to "do something" about those upstarts that threatened the US hegemony, just when they thought the USSR had self-destructed and left them the spoils. Going against Saddam Hussein would enable them to kill two birds with one stone: Cause grief for an unappreciated "Ally", while finishing the job that Bush Senior had failed to complete in 1990. With 9/11 they found the ideal excuse. The real financiers and masterminds, the Saudis, were - and still are - untouchable because of their tight alliance with Wall Street and all oily matters. All it took was the invention of Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction, and Bob's your uncle. The UN didn't fall for it, most of the EU saw it also for what it was, with the exception of London, who are, like the US of A, reluctant to share political and economic influence.
Witness the $Trillion Shock-and-Awe destruction of Baghdad, which got rid of one "nasty" dictator, but created a power vacuum that nobody in the "Coalition of the Willing" had seen coming. Yet Yugoslavia after Tito had imploded right under their noses - another history lesson gone begging. OK, there is a difference: Yugoslavia didn't have oil.


----------



## DB008 (21 December 2016)

Hindsight?

This is from 2014.....



*
Trojan horse: ISIS militants come to Europe disguised as refugees, US intel sources claim​*



> Islamic State militants are planning to insert operatives into Western Europe disguised as refugees, claim US intelligence sources, who unencrypted locked communications of the caliphate’s leadership.
> 
> The militant organization is afraid of using aircraft due to strict security rules, so they use land as an alternative, the US sources told Bild Am Sonntag, a German national Sunday newspaper.
> 
> ...





https://www.rt.com/news/193400-isis-militants-pose-refugees/​


----------



## moXJO (21 December 2016)

Slovakia banned Islam and a Hungarian village has banned  Muslims and lefties.

Regardless of Merkel's intentions, her decisions to allow the refugees in could shatter the EU.
I wonder if this was a part of ISIS strategy. To push so many Muslims into surrounding countries and more or less achieve not only invading but welcoming and paying for.


----------



## sptrawler (21 December 2016)

pixel said:


> Chancellor Dr Merkel is the elected facilitator of a humanitarian majority, who saw Millions in need and reached out to help. Sure, in hindsight it's easy to find Could'ves, Should'ves and reasons why things Would've turned out differently.
> You mention the EU, which is a Union only in name, considering all the bickering and nimbyism of the member states. Would it have been more humane to let the refugees drown or send them back into ISIS Land? Today's Germans remember with horror what happened to Jews that were turned back by Switzerland and Great Britain. But that's history, and nobody likes to be reminded of historic events, especially when they're uncomfortable.
> 
> Yes, Dr Merkel grew up under a socialist regime in the Eastern part of Germany; but even at that time, Christian principles were upheld in sizeable sections of the population, paying lip service to the Powers That Be, and practicing their Faith in quiet. In case it got lost in translation: After the Unification, Dr Merkel joined, and in time became the leader of, the Christian Democrats, a centre-right party, comparable to the Liberals here, and pulled further to the right by their coalition partner, the Christian Socialist Union. The latter is an oxymoron if ever there was one. The CSU have their base nowhere but in in Bavaria, Germany's equivalent of Queensland. Look it up.
> ...




I suppose from an ignorant point of view, I don't see ISIS or the Muslim ideology being beneficial, or in any way advancing our culture or politics.
Maybe you could explain, what part of their ideology would integrate or enhance ours.


----------



## luutzu (22 December 2016)

wayneL said:


> If you let your child play with a tiger and the tiger eats your child, whose fault is it, Grasshopper ?




It's the parent's fault, not the tiger's. Tigers do what they do, it's their nature to find food and feed their cubs.

If we run with that analogy, who's the parent and who's the tiger in this terrorism scenario?

Every Tuesday, Obama got a "Kill List". It list terrorist the intelligence or military or whoever thought is an enemy of the state - or could, maybe, one day, possibly, be an enemy of the state because... well, because they say nasty stuff about the US or hang around with people the US doesn't like.

So Obama, and Trump and whoever else come after... look at the paper and sign it off.

Guess what happen? Those drones that's flying all over the ME... they're free to drop a few tap on whatever blur their "analyst" back at the Pentagon or the CIA or Las Vegas thought is the one on the Kill List. 

So if you're a person living in the ME and you happen to be standing near whoever, or that whoever happen to drive by... and a missile strike. Then if you survive and want to run over to help rescue the victims, you get blown up too. 

That's not terrorism? 

Yea, it's nice if we can do all that shiet and they should just take it. But sometime people fight back, for some reason. 

So maybe them fighting back is because they're savages, they're Muslims and Islam is evil... or maybe they just don't like their country being taken over and their only natural resources are being shipped overseas so that their children and grandchildren will starve one day not too far away.

That does not mean that their attack on innocent civilian are right or I or anyone is justifying it. It's a simple fact that as a parent, don't let your kids play with tigers and then blame them for doing what comes naturally.

That is, don't go terrorising people and expect them to stay quiet.

If some idiot come into your house and start slapping your family members around, kicking and killing them; then take all your valuables... would any of us just take it and philosophised about it? So why are we expecting others to?


----------



## luutzu (22 December 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> ISIS will kill or enslave civilians if we don't get them first. If we leave the civilians to their fate they will say the West doesn't care. It's not an easy choice but if you let crazies like ISIS get a foothold then they will eventually cause far worse destruction.




Are all Muslim ISIS or terrorist or their sympathisers and supporters? No.

And we're not fighting ISIS over there anyway. 

First, we were already there long before ISIS ever came about. And I don't just mean the Iraq II - Operation Iraqi Freedom - either.


Let's take China as an example. If the Chinese were to land in Darwin and march on all over Canberra. Set up some gov't to their liking and have all of Gina's and Rio and BHP's resources shipped north. 

How much would you bet there'll be a few true blue Christian terrorists?


----------



## pixel (22 December 2016)

sptrawler said:


> I suppose from an ignorant point of view, I don't see ISIS or the Muslim ideology being beneficial, or in any way advancing our culture or politics.
> Maybe you could explain, what part of their ideology would integrate or enhance ours.



ISIS filled the power void after the destruction of the Iraqi regime. Nobody invited them into Europe, but their victims needed humanitarian help. If you consider helping only those whose ideology you deem beneficial for yourself, you wouldn't understand whatever I could say.


----------



## sptrawler (22 December 2016)

luutzu said:


> Are all Muslim ISIS or terrorist or their sympathisers and supporters? No.
> 
> And we're not fighting ISIS over there anyway.
> 
> ...




The problem is Iuutzu, until there is a way of differentiating between Muslim radicals and normal Muslims, how do you enact a realistic policy.

We  in Australia, haven't had a massive terrorist event, Europe has. Now Europe is calling for a "hard arsed policy like Australia".

It would be nice to think that all refugees are looking for a better life, some are, but as Europe proves a lot aren't.

The problem is we are a small Country, with an easy going attitude, why should we give that away?

What is the upside? we have taken onboard all ethnic background people and made a great Country.

Why should we take on people who obviously have a problem integrating and adopting their new countries underlying idelogy.


----------



## bellenuit (22 December 2016)

pixel said:


> ISIS filled the power void after the destruction of the Iraqi regime. Nobody invited them into Europe, but their victims needed humanitarian help. If you consider helping only those whose ideology you deem beneficial for yourself, you wouldn't understand whatever I could say.




What if they deliberately create victims knowing that they would be invited in by Western societies, with the long run intention of seed feeding a worldwide caliphate? Then the West's intended good actions are actually a cause of the problem. IMO the solution is to create safe zones in or near their home countries and for the West to militarily protect those zones and provide food/accomodation. Our governments responsibility is to its own people first. Destroying your own society to assist the refugees, which would be the case if an open door policy were employed, helps no one in the long run.


----------



## sptrawler (22 December 2016)

pixel said:


> ISIS filled the power void after the destruction of the Iraqi regime. Nobody invited them into Europe, but their victims needed humanitarian help. If you consider helping only those whose ideology you deem beneficial for yourself, you wouldn't understand whatever I could say.




Nobody invited them into Europe?
Germany did and ISIS has taken responsibility, for the latest atrocity, if that isn't a slap in the face god knows what is.

I have no issue giving shelter and helping those who require and appreciate help, i feel it is folly to aide and abet those who wish to hurt you and your family.

I don't think all Muslims are bad, I also don't feel all Muslims mean us harm, but there is enough evidence to support some form of checking.
To not do so is stupid, IMO, and the last thing I would class you as is stupid Pixel.
From your posts I have a great deal of respect for you.


----------



## Tisme (22 December 2016)

luutzu said:


> Are all Muslim ISIS or terrorist or their sympathisers and supporters? .




Did all Nazis, their sympathisers and supporters terrorise the world in pursuit of Lebensraum? Sie wetten Ihr Leben haben sie.

Did all Oglaigh na hEireann, their sympathisers and supporters terrorise Ireland in pursuit of a Catholic doctrine. 
geall tÃº a rinne siad


----------



## luutzu (22 December 2016)

Tisme said:


> Did all Nazis, their sympathisers and supporters terrorise the world in pursuit of Lebensraum? Sie wetten Ihr Leben haben sie.
> 
> Did all Oglaigh na hEireann, their sympathisers and supporters terrorise Ireland in pursuit of a Catholic doctrine.
> geall tÃº a rinne siad




Yea, the Nazi did take a couple of countries nearby to get some living space. Literally. 

Then Hitler figured the French and British empire are too overextended, too weak and broke to do much about him if he take a couple more.

Of course they got to cleanse their houses and extensions of the Jews, gays, disabled and other savages. Something some of us are thinking might not be a bad idea.


As to the Irish, I thought they terrorise the upstanding British because they don't like their country being colonised. That or they just got home from the pub and thought it's too early to go home so let's start that fight.


----------



## luutzu (22 December 2016)

bellenuit said:


> What if they deliberately create victims knowing that they would be invited in by Western societies, with the long run intention of seed feeding a worldwide caliphate? Then the West's intended good actions are actually a cause of the problem. IMO the solution is to create safe zones in or near their home countries and for the West to militarily protect those zones and provide food/accomodation. Our governments responsibility is to its own people first. Destroying your own society to assist the refugees, which would be the case if an open door policy were employed, helps no one in the long run.




Seriously?

Try saying what you wrote out loud. See how stupid it is.

People deliberately choose to become victim? Or terrorist mastermind create those millions of victims?

Maybe war create victims and refugees, then terrorist mastermind thought to put a few of their terrorist into the mix. Maybe the terrorist were genuine refugees that got flipped, just like any one could be flip to serve the enemy.


Yea, we destroy ourselves helping refugees. To help those who ran from war with nothing but the clothes on their back... that would destroy our society. We should kick and stomp on those people. But then we'd suddenly be generous and kind to those other people within our own peaceful society who needs help. Unless of course they're just lazy and druggies and no good sobs who just sits around living off of our generosity.

Tough choice but maybe we shouldn't help our own lazy no good bums and elderly too because you never know how people can pretend to be victim and take advantage of our kindness.


----------



## luutzu (22 December 2016)

sptrawler said:


> Nobody invited them into Europe?
> Germany did and ISIS has taken responsibility, for the latest atrocity, if that isn't a slap in the face god knows what is.
> 
> I have no issue giving shelter and helping those who require and appreciate help, i feel it is folly to aide and abet those who wish to hurt you and your family.
> ...




Of the one million refugees into Germany, how many of them are terrorist?


----------



## luutzu (22 December 2016)

sptrawler said:


> The problem is Iuutzu, until there is a way of differentiating between Muslim radicals and normal Muslims, how do you enact a realistic policy.
> 
> We  in Australia, haven't had a massive terrorist event, Europe has. Now Europe is calling for a "hard arsed policy like Australia".
> 
> ...




Despite what the media is saying, it takes at least two years for a refugee to be granted that temporary Visa. They all go through a bunch of health, medical, intelligence/security, history checks. 

That's how it has always been done, and that's how we get to know whether the refugee is genuine or a terrorist.

It's human nature to integrate and assimilate into their surroundings. If human can't or won't do that, we'd all still be apes.


----------



## Tisme (22 December 2016)

luutzu said:


> As to the Irish, I thought they terrorise the upstanding British because they don't like their country being colonised. That or they just got home from the pub and thought it's too early to go home so let's start that fight.




They have always been susceptible to rage... it's in their core. The Norman invasion not only took out England, but it took out Ireland too. While England absorbed the latest in a long line of invaders, the Catholic Church did what it does best and succeeded in reseeding it's over arching mind control using the English rule as the demon personified.

The recusant Catholics were a poison to the English 16th century rule and their untrustworthiness resulted in them being restricted from the public service in anywhere ruled by England until after the Napoleonic wars. Of course that was a stupid move too, which had the same result in Ireland as the barbarians that plague us worldwide today = they are not maturated in the thinking department because of the lazy deflection of responsibility, accountability. benevolence and industry to a vengeful sky fairy who lords over them.


----------



## SirRumpole (22 December 2016)

luutzu said:


> It's human nature to integrate and assimilate into their surroundings. If human can't or won't do that, we'd all still be apes.




That is the case unless they have some archaic script telling them what to think, who to hate and who to kill.


----------



## luutzu (22 December 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> That is the case unless they have some archaic script telling them what to think, who to hate and who to kill.




If we're at war with China, it'll be those dam Lao Tzu and Confucian classics that cause them to commit acts of terror too.

People doesn't need religion to be good or bad. If they're good they're already so regardless of whatever book they read. If they're nasty by nature, all the Bible and Koran and churchgoing are just for show or just out of habit and tradition.

I've never known nasty people who become good once they got religious. Or good people who turn nasty once they read the book. And I have met and known Buddhist nun and abbot, fake Christian churchgoers whose deeds are so vile that it boggles the mind as to why they'd want to join a cult where there's an eternal hell for stuff that's nowhere near as bad as what they're pulling.


----------



## luutzu (22 December 2016)

Tisme said:


> They have always been susceptible to rage... it's in their core. The Norman invasion not only took out England, but it took out Ireland too. While England absorbed the latest in a long line of invaders, the Catholic Church did what it does best and succeeded in reseeding it's over arching mind control using the English rule as the demon personified.
> 
> The recusant Catholics were a poison to the English 16th century rule and their untrustworthiness resulted in them being restricted from the public service in anywhere ruled by England until after the Napoleonic wars. Of course that was a stupid move too, which had the same result in Ireland as the barbarians that plague us worldwide today = they are not maturated in the thinking department because of the lazy deflection of responsibility, accountability. benevolence and industry to a vengeful sky fairy who lords over them.




I learnt from Horrible Histories that Wellington was an Irish. True?

Should we blame the Irish or the English on the worldwide Irish epidemic that's taking over most New World business and parliament today?

Yea, Irish... I like their sense of humour but won't trust them. Red head and freckles just can't be trusted - with or without alcohol or Catholicism.


----------



## Tisme (22 December 2016)

luutzu said:


> I learnt from Horrible Histories that Wellington was an Irish. True?
> 
> Should we blame the Irish or the English on the worldwide Irish epidemic that's taking over most New World business and parliament today?
> 
> Yea, Irish... I like their sense of humour but won't trust them. Red head and freckles just can't be trusted - with or without alcohol or Catholicism.





I don't trust 'em either. They are the masters and title holders of entrenched cognitive dissonance...after Noco that is. The Mick problem in the state and federal parliaments should wash out over time as the muslims take over.



Meanwhile we have Tony, who mick Rudd described as "..one of the most extreme right-wing conservative leaders or politicians that the Liberal Party has thrown up”  and Cory setting up a new Democratic Liberal Party to breakaway from the mess of their own making.

The "catholic" in the dogmatic Roman Catholic, especially in the land of leprechauns and Hiberno-Scotti monks, is an oxymoron in itself. The Bog Oirish mick brain cavity is a vessel of overt stupidity masquerading as wit.:


Did I tell you I have a large % Hibernian/Scottish blood?


----------



## luutzu (23 December 2016)

Tisme said:


> I don't trust 'em either. They are the masters and title holders of entrenched cognitive dissonance...after Noco that is. The Mick problem in the state and federal parliaments should wash out over time as the muslims take over.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Yea you've told us of your glorious Irish/Viking/Scottish lineages. 

Looked up Hibernia and it's Latin for Ireland. Anything but the Anglo blood ey? 

I got some Gaul blood in me too - they were around the area. Hence my tendencies to help enlighten people.


----------



## DB008 (21 February 2017)

Well, seems like some countries are starting to wake up.....

*Denmark Passes Declaration Prohibiting Muslim-Majority Neighborhoods*

A new declaration was passed by the Danish parliament which makes it illegal for a residential area to be occupied by an immigrant majority population.

The bill was introduced by the populist Danish People’s Party (DF) was supported by the ruling coalition and the proposal was passed with a 55-54 vote on Monday.

The bill was aimed to address concerns that the immigrant majority population of a Copenhagen neighborhood has exerted undue influence over the community.

https://newsline.com/denmark-passed-declaration-prohibiting-muslim-majority-neighborhoods/


----------



## Tisme (21 February 2017)

DB008 said:


> Well, seems like some countries are starting to wake up.....
> 
> *Denmark Passes Declaration Prohibiting Muslim-Majority Neighborhoods*
> 
> ...





Nobody likes diasporic ghettos except their hermitic residents.


----------



## SirRumpole (21 February 2017)

DB008 said:


> Well, seems like some countries are starting to wake up.....
> 
> *Denmark Passes Declaration Prohibiting Muslim-Majority Neighborhoods*
> 
> ...




Good idea for Western Sydney.


----------



## luutzu (21 February 2017)

DB008 said:


> Well, seems like some countries are starting to wake up.....
> 
> *Denmark Passes Declaration Prohibiting Muslim-Majority Neighborhoods*
> 
> ...





That's the wrong solution mate.

You let them spread out and they might inter-marry; or just trick innocent White Danish girls and boys to impregnate. That mean the Danish blood won't be pure no more.

Further, once they're spread out all over the place, it is very costly to keep them all under control. If they're together in a few block, justice can rain down on them by simply barricading a few streets. Now they'd have to call the White Danish family to inform them before hand.

Seriously, how are they going to thin out the numbers? Pick lotto and those whose house comes up will have to move?


----------



## luutzu (21 February 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Good idea for Western Sydney.




I do worry about you man.


----------



## SirRumpole (21 February 2017)

luutzu said:


> I do worry about you man.




Thanks man, but I worry about primitive ghettos opening up in our suburbs where Muslims only hear their own voices , live in their own worlds and don't respect westerners or the western culture that has provided them with a roof over their heads, welfare if necessary and the freedom to remain firmly entrenched in their medieval time warp.

There are some suburbs that are starting to be "no go" areas for police and that is the start of anarchy, although I agree that the practicalities of enforcing a "no Muslim majority" suburb are debatable.


----------



## luutzu (21 February 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Thanks man, but I worry about primitive ghettos opening up in our suburbs where Muslims only hear their own voices , live in their own worlds and don't respect westerners or the western culture that has provided them with a roof over their heads, welfare if necessary and the freedom to remain firmly entrenched in their medieval time warp.
> 
> There are some suburbs that are starting to be "no go" areas for police and that is the start of anarchy, although I agree that the practicalities of enforcing a "no Muslim majority" suburb are debatable.




They hear voices like the voices that's telling you all that about them. Or you read it in the papers?

What do you mean respect for Westerners and Western Culture?

As in don't mind it, find some part of it good and nice... or respect as in they ought to kneel or bow their head each time they see a Whitey; respect as in they ought to tell their women to dress in bikinis at the beaches and eat pork once a week.


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## SirRumpole (21 February 2017)

luutzu said:


> What do you mean respect for Westerners and Western Culture?




I mean they see us as infidels, an underclass who needs  to be converted to Islam or defeated.

It says so in their Holy Book.


----------



## qldfrog (21 February 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> I mean they see us as infidels, an underclass who needs  to be converted to Islam or defeated.
> 
> It says so in their Holy Book.



SirRumpole, why do you even bother?Life is short


----------



## SirRumpole (21 February 2017)

qldfrog said:


> SirRumpole, why do you even bother?Life is short




Hi Froggy good to see you back.

I thought you were always going on about Muslims ? Have they converted you ?


----------



## luutzu (21 February 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> I mean they see us as infidels, an underclass who needs  to be converted to Islam or defeated.
> 
> It says so in their Holy Book.





Is that why no time in my life have I ever been approached by any Muslim to try converting me to Islam?

I have answered a few doors where Christians want to pass on the Lord's words and how I could be redeemed and find peace and such. That and plenty of my Christian friends always asking me to go to Church growing up.


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## luutzu (21 February 2017)

qldfrog said:


> SirRumpole, why do you even bother?Life is short




It is short. That's why people shouldn't waste it being tricked into hating something they don't really know much about; and on top of which, their hatred and indifference to war crimes and inhumanity to those people permit it to continue.

Some two million Iraqis have been killed; another two million Afghanis were also killed; who the heck knows how many more millions will have their life cut short or be born with birth defects and into famine...
[and I have left out some 5 other Muslim countries being pounded]

and "we" who play a major role, who can protest... we ignore that kind of statistics and debate whether or not those Muslims are evil... how evil - a lot or just a little or just hidden inside their unconscious just waiting to pounch.

You seriously cannot make this up


----------



## qldfrog (22 February 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Hi Froggy good to see you back.
> 
> I thought you were always going on about Muslims ? Have they converted you ?



I will need to be beheaded first..
Travelled across the world and back; Discovered that Lyon (2nd biggest french town) has fallen as has (but nothing new there) Marseille;
In the suburbs and in the center of Helsinki, "they" were there, no more a "minority", presence shown and displayed.Black drapped fully covered fathoms cruising pushing baby trolleys with the next generation of jihadists.
It is a done deal for western europe and only Russia (yes Russia with his dictator) was a beacon of light where european culture was alive and well.
Far less cops there by the way than in China or Europe (or worst New York)

In 30y, western Europe will be muslim and have sharia laws in key countries.All that before 2050, even faster than in my worst nightmares.
The sheeps there (and here) will have been slaughtered while raving on FB on the terrible attitude of Trump vs women, the LGxxxxxxx clique or his racist views and celebrating Merkel..No limit to brainwashed stupidity and media propaganda.
Visited the US, latin america, no real hope coming from there even if islam does not seem the problem.
While a leftist/liberal at heart (and actually environmentalist), I can not help resenting what a coalition of socialism and lobbyism/business interest has done to destroy a whole civilisation, in less than 50y.
I admit defeat in Europe, no LePen, Brexit will change that anymore and civil war would be lost due to the demographics.Sharia it will be.
Visit while you can.


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## Tisme (22 February 2017)

Do they have Christian marriage sites? I suppose they do

https://www.muslima.com/en/women/marriage/france/location/rhone-alpes/lyon


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## dutchie (22 February 2017)

qldfrog said:


> I will need to be beheaded first..
> Travelled across the world and back; Discovered that Lyon (2nd biggest french town) has fallen as has (but nothing new there) Marseille;
> In the suburbs and in the center of Helsinki, "they" were there, no more a "minority", presence shown and displayed.Black drapped fully covered fathoms cruising pushing baby trolleys with the next generation of jihadists.
> It is a done deal for western europe and only Russia (yes Russia with his dictator) was a beacon of light where european culture was alive and well.
> ...




Politicians and the media have sold out Europe. They are in a train wreck and they don't even know it.


----------



## Tisme (22 February 2017)

dutchie said:


> Politicians and the media have sold out Europe. They are in a train wreck and they don't even know it.





Still enjoying the quiet between wars, but Europe being Europe it won't be long before they start up again and watchout anyone who isn't a patriot.


----------



## DB008 (19 March 2017)

Another day, another incident in France....



*Paris airport attacker shouted: 'I'm here to die for Allah - there will be deaths'*

​A radicalised Muslim on a crime watchlist shot a policewoman in the head at a road check before attacking a soldier at a Paris airport.

The gunman shouted: "I am here to die for Allah - there will be deaths", before attempting to gun people down at Orly airport.

The man - known as Ziyed B - at one point threw down a bag containing a can of petrol, a Parisian prosectutor said.

He was initially stopped for speeding at a road check north of the city early this morning, shooting a policewoman in the head.

He then held up a woman motorist at gunpoint, stealing her car and driving to Orly airport.

In the airport terminal the attacker assaulted a patrol of three counter-terrorism soldiers, making the statement about Allah.

He wrestled one of the soldiers to the floor, trying to take her gun.

The man was shot dead by patrol officers as they attempted to protect the women and members of the public at the airport.
*[URL]http://news.sky.com/story/terror-watchlist-suspect-shoots-police-officer-before-launching-paris-airport-attack-10805781​​[/URL]*


----------



## DB008 (9 April 2017)

*Sweden truck attack suspect 'is 39-year-old from Uzbekistan who posted jihadist propaganda'*​
Swedish police said on Saturday that they had arrested a 39-year-old Uzbekistan-born man they believed had hijacked a beer truck and carried out a terrorist attack by driving the truck into a crowd of people in Stockholm the day before, killing four and injuring at least 15 others.

*http://www.smh.com.au/world/sweden-truck-attack-suspect-is-39yearold-from-uzbekistan-who-posted-jihadist-propaganda-20170408-gvgrw5.html*​


----------



## DB008 (21 April 2017)

France, 2 more shootings, several police dead. ISIS takes responsibility.

Elections on Sunday.


----------



## DB008 (22 April 2017)

*Sick*

*Muslim migrant avoids jail for anally raping teen in Sweden because*
*he "couldn't understand no"*​
Despite his 14-year-old victim repeatedly saying “no,” a Muslim migrant won’t face rape charges because the court claimed he had “difficulties in interpreting” the word “no.”

This despite video evidence of the girl resisting and repeatedly saying “no” during the sexual assault – and despite evidence indicating the girl was blackmailed by the migrant who reportedly threatened to harass her family.

The court sided with the migrant even further by suggesting the girl’s repeated “no” only pertained to forced anal sex, which the judges somehow did not consider rape.

“Abdul will instead be sentenced for protection and will be included in the Freedom Relation and Relationship Program ROS, instead pay 60,000 SEK [roughly $6,650 US dollars] to the girl in compensation,” reported Swedish media, who also said Abdul is still a citizen of Iraq.


http://vesselnews.io/muslim-migrant-avoids-jail-anally-raping-teen-sweden-couldnt-understand-no/​


----------



## Junior (22 April 2017)

qldfrog said:


> In 30y, western Europe will be muslim and have sharia laws in key countries.All that before 2050, even faster than in my worst nightmares.
> The sheeps there (and here) will have been slaughtered while raving on FB on the terrible attitude of Trump vs women, the LGxxxxxxx clique or his racist views and celebrating Merkel..No limit to brainwashed stupidity and media propaganda.




How do you see Sharia law being implemented and actually taking over current laws?  Have muslims infiltrated any positions of power?  Are they anywhere near a majority in any european countries?  Are they building numbers in Government, police or military forces?

I just can't see how this transition would take place without ALL of the above occurring first.

In France for example, even if they make up, say, 10% of the population.  How would this new regime be forced upon, and accepted by the remaining 90%?  Of that 10%, more than half would be women, children and elderly.  Then of the remainder, how many and what proportion will forcefully impose this Sharia law onto the wider population?  It's just so so far from a reality.

Would the rest of Europe simply accept this?  I don't think so.

I visited France last year.  It was an awesome holiday.  Admittedly I did not visit Lyon or Marseille, but I saw no muslim influence at all, aside from some homeless refugees in Paris.


----------



## qldfrog (23 April 2017)

Junior said:


> How do you see Sharia law being implemented and actually taking over current laws?  Have muslims infiltrated any positions of power?  Are they anywhere near a majority in any european countries?  Are they building numbers in Government, police or military forces?
> 
> I just can't see how this transition would take place without ALL of the above occurring first.
> 
> ...



I was in France in January, and yes Paris like London, New York, etc is an international city, one of the world city  but are people you see around you , in any way representative of France: you have crossed path with expats, tourists and the old money of France, mostly elderly, the only one able to afford buying there;Paris is not France
I have my bet you did not put a foot outside the ring road circling Paris (and safer that way , you were in holiday, not a suicide mission)
See how far foreigners are from the facts Junior: you say I quote:"for example, even if they make up, say, 10% of the population."
They are well above, these were the figures 30y ago, now they are french citizens, the second and third generation can vote, fight and most of the terrorists caught there have a french citizenship, it is legally forbidden to provide ethnic or religious figures in census or poll but walk around, go to schools,
You say (I presume about new refugees?" Of that 10%, more than half would be women, children and elderly.", no do not believe the TV reports with "syrian refugee pictures"; figures on new entrants are around 90% young men...Just google a bit and look at official figures for entries in Germany lately or the thousands of weekly arrival in Italy via the mediterranean seas."
Then where would they get the power?
1) by vote-> slowly first but who shifted the balance toward left lately and why do you think LePen can not be elected next Month?Numbers....Her only chance is abstention of these new citizens which is very high as they do not care yet, not do they have many official party yet
2) demographics..as old french native or former migration waves from Europe pass away, they are replaced by muslim kids natality in France is the highest in Europe and believe me these are not Pierre and Marguerite kids
3) local pressure: swimming pool separation,hallal food and no pork served at school cantine, unability for women in housing commissions to wear "revealing" clothes, peer pressure on the less fanatical muslims
4) can you only engage non muslim people in the army? No->so some of the previous terrorists actually served (and got trained) not that it changed their mind and became role model citizens

London Mayor is a muslim, Paris will take longuer as the electoral zoning is different and only include the posh inner city.
as for "Would the rest of Europe simply accept this?" Europe is crumbling partly *but partly only* , due to migration issues.
Believe me germany has more worrying issues than Sharia law in France and  it is not the bad Putin wolf they should be warry off.


----------



## Tisme (23 April 2017)

qldfrog said:


> I was in France in January, and yes Paris like London, New York, etc is an international city, one of the world city  but are people you see around you , in any way representative of France: you have crossed path with expats, tourists and the old money of France, mostly elderly, the only one able to afford buying there;Paris is not France
> I have my bet you did not put a foot outside the ring road circling Paris (and safer that way , you were in holiday, not a suicide mission)
> See how far foreigners are from the facts Junior: you say I quote:"for example, even if they make up, say, 10% of the population."
> They are well above, these were the figures 30y ago, now they are french citizens, the second and third generation can vote, fight and most of the terrorists caught there have a french citizenship, it is legally forbidden to provide ethnic or religious figures in census or poll but walk around, go to schools,
> ...




I think you and Junior are being far too sophisticated if you think ceding France to Muslims will go down the constitutional route of laws and elections. We have seen how entire cities are shutdown, the Eiffel Tower lit up and the news services running on adrenaline when a sole gunman goes rogue ... I reckon 1000 sons of Allah could take Paris and France going on the behaviour of the panicing and cowering locals respond.,,,, and it's not confined to France.

Honestly how long is the Western response of passive defiance and discussion going to give way to "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me"?

Terror is only terror if it exceeds the current standard of fear, our standards must have dropped over the decades.


----------



## DB008 (23 April 2017)

Meanwhile in France, they are carrying the ISIS/ISIL flag out in the open.

Crazy


----------



## DB008 (3 May 2017)

I agree. Not surprised either....


https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy...enters-jim-hanson-speaks-with-tucker-carlson/​


----------



## DB008 (4 June 2017)

They are even carrying the ISIS/ISIL flag in broad daylight in London.

This is crazy


----------



## DB008 (5 June 2017)

Not sure where to put this.

We might need a new thread on the Islamic violence that's happening in Europe.

Anyways, when the system is totally broken and politicians don't want to touch it with a barge pole, what do you do....

If you walk around with an ISIS flag (or any other radical death squad), deport. Gone. No questions.


Zowel Khalid als Ibrahim El Bakraoui heeft een gerechtelijk verleden. Ibrahim El Bakraoui werd in 2010 veroordeeld tot 10 jaar cel, onder meer omdat hij na een overval geschoten had op de politie. Khalid El Bakraoui kreeg een straf van 5 jaar wegens deelname aan carjackings.





http://m.deredactie.be/#!/snippet/56f28cf1c9976f34659570b7​


----------



## Tisme (5 June 2017)

DB008 said:


> Not sure where to put this.
> 
> We might need a new thread on the Islamic violence that's happening in Europe.
> 
> ...




Made a few quid from the public purse before taking off to the M.E.. I assume he was groomed in prison?

[wiki]
_El Bakraoui was born on 9 October 1986 in Brussels and raised in Laken, a residential district in northwestern Brussels.[1] He was a Belgian national of Moroccan descent.[2] His father, a retired butcher and devout Muslim, emigrated from Morocco; his mother was described as "conservative and reclusive".[1] His brother Khalid has been identified as the suicide bomber at Maalbeek metro station in Brussels on 22 March 2016.[3]

In January 2010, he was involved in the attempted robbery of a currency exchange office, where he shot at police with a Kalashnikov rifle while providing a lookout for his accomplices. One police officer was shot in the leg but survived.[1] The Mayor of Brussels, Freddy Thielemans, and the Mayor of Sint-Jans-Molenbeek, Philippe Moureaux, described the shooting as a "fait divers" (a small daily news item) and "normal in a large city", causing controversy.[4]

Later in 2010, Ibrahim was sentenced to 10 years in prison, but was released on parole in 2014 under the condition that he did not leave the country for longer than a month. Following his release from prison, he collected €25,000 in Belgian government benefits until December 2015.[5] He failed to abide by the conditions of parole and was sought again by the authorities.[1] _[wiki]​


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## wayneL (5 June 2017)

This is what moderate people were fearing

Well played leftists

http://dirtybikersociety.com/biker-clubs-now-violently-attacking-muslim-immigrants-in-germany/


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