# How to make money out of forex



## Felix Profound (8 February 2009)

Hi everybody
I'm here to give some valuable advices about trading Forex. I hope some day in soon future, this topic be very useful for everybody interested in this about. This happens just by a group help.

First of all, I am interested to lead the subject with an important question.

Why Forex?

In other world what makes Forex specific to motivate us to trade it (out of other instruments) ?


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## Gundini (8 February 2009)

Felix Profound said:


> Hi everybody
> I'm here to give some valuable advices about trading in Forex. I hope some day in soon future, this topic be very useful for everybody interested in this about. This happens just by a group help.
> 
> First of all, I am interested to lead the subject with an important question.
> ...




I don't know, volatility?

So what valuable advice are you going to give us?

Or is this like a course....


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## MS+Tradesim (8 February 2009)

"Ooh! Ooh! Pick me!!"

*Stretches arm up*


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## CanOz (8 February 2009)

Felix Profound said:


> Hi everybody
> I'm here to give some valuable advices about trading Forex. I hope some day in soon future, this topic be very useful for everybody interested in this about. This happens just by a group help.
> 
> First of all, I am interested to lead the subject with an important question.
> ...




Finally some genuine rolleyes: ) advice about trading Forex, bring it on!

Cheers,


CanOz


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## Stormin_Norman (8 February 2009)

cause currency is a ratio, not a price.


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## James Austin (8 February 2009)

oh this should be fun.

but . . . the tendency at this forum is to drive folk like felix away prior to his used by date. 

so let's draw it out a little, could we!


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## Wysiwyg (8 February 2009)

James Austin said:


> oh this should be fun.
> 
> but . . . the tendency at this forum is to drive folk like felix away prior to his used by date.




Well it depends how much one values their time I think.Does anyone want to spend minutes/hours on a subject simply waffling on and completely ignoring the subject matter.Most of us are here to learn and teach.



> Why Forex?
> 
> In other world what makes Forex specific to motivate us to trade it (out of other instruments) ?



Why I trade currency pairs is because of the continuity/fluidity, low cost and ease of transaction.


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## Gundini (8 February 2009)

So Felix, what is you advise?


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## nizar (8 February 2009)

Felix Profound said:


> Why Forex?
> 
> In other world what makes Forex specific to motivate us to trade it (out of other instruments) ?




I was looking at forex last year but never ended up going through with it, but these are the things that appealed to me.

1. Very liquid, which means just about any trading system will be scalable.
2. Low commissions.
3. Very easy to go either long or short (with stocks there are restrictions).
4. 24-hour market means endless opportunity.

(And yes Im aware many commodity futures markets may also share the above traits)


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## Felix Profound (8 February 2009)

Stormin_Norman said:


> cause currency is a ratio, not a price.




Stormin, suppose one got some money to open a real acount and start trading. There are many OTC markets like Stock, Metal, Oil..
Question is those who come to Forex, why come to Forex? Are they bloody wrong or is there something specific in this market that makes it worth trading.


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## Felix Profound (8 February 2009)

Wysiwyg said:


> Why I trade currency pairs is because of the continuity/fluidity, low cost and ease of transaction.




Wysiwyg, When you say *continuity/fluidity*, do you mean there  are no gaps in Forex market. If this is what you mean, you are right, this is a difference but not a score cause as I know there is plenty of information in gaps.

*low cost* and *ease of transaction*(liquidity) yes, these two come in our list


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## prawn_86 (8 February 2009)

My super mod spam sense is tingling.

To the OP, we are watching this thread very closely... Any hint of spam and its :enforcer:


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## Wysiwyg (8 February 2009)

Felix Profound said:


> Wysiwyg, When you say *continuity/fluidity*, do you mean there  are no gaps in Forex market.




Obviously it closes on weekends (gap) and there are times when the pace varies but generally speaking they are tradeable 24 hours per day during the week.


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## Wysiwyg (8 February 2009)

prawn_86 said:


> My super mod spam sense is tingling.




 it`s looking pretty likely.Just thought I would check for integrity first.Mum said never judge a book by its cover.


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## Garpal Gumnut (8 February 2009)

James Austin said:


> oh this should be fun.
> 
> but . . . the tendency at this forum is to drive folk like felix away prior to his used by date.
> 
> so let's draw it out a little, could we!




No problems with that mate.



Felix Profound said:


> Wysiwyg, When you say *continuity/fluidity*, do you mean there  are no gaps in Forex market. If this is what you mean, you are right, this is a difference but not a score cause as I know there is plenty of information in gaps.
> 
> *low cost* and *ease of transaction*(liquidity) yes, these two come in our list




So what's on the list mate?

gg


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## Stormin_Norman (9 February 2009)

Felix Profound said:


> Stormin, suppose one got some money to open a real acount and start trading. There are many OTC markets like Stock, Metal, Oil..




huh? hows that related to my comment that currencies are a ratio and not a price?


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## Felix Profound (9 February 2009)

Thanks for all comments, Forex market differs from others in this aspects:

1- It is a 24-hour market
I myself don't mind it a real advantage. Cause currency pairs have awake and sleep time like us. From other point of view, most of trading systems have a limited trading hours.

2- High leverage
Most of Forex brokers provide high leverage like 100, 200 or even 400. In my age and experience I haven't found out any fair reason for that. Most newbies lose all their money using high leverage. If you ever heard about money management you know to keep your account away from the danger of blowing out, you should reduce your trading size. In other words not use that much leverage. So High leverage is not a advantage as well.

3- Low Cost & Liquidity
I have never tarded nothing but currency and don't know how much this two factor are important but I'm sure they can't turn a loser to winer

4- No Volume
As you know in Forex we haven't volume. You can not get confirm of all your indicators with most valuable indicator (Volume)

5-?
Then Why Forex?


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## nunthewiser (9 February 2009)

taps fingers.....................

grabs deckchair.........................


do i need a snack?


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## Stormin_Norman (9 February 2009)

cut to the chase please.


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## Felix Profound (9 February 2009)

Stormin_Norman said:


> huh? hows that related to my comment that currencies are a ratio and not a price?




Sorry Norman for misunderestanding. What you mentioned that currencies are a ratio and not a price complethly true but from the point of trader's view all are numbers. We where looking something makes Forex worth trading.


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## BentRod (9 February 2009)

Ah just in time.


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## Stormin_Norman (9 February 2009)

Felix Profound said:


> Sorry Norman for misunderestanding. What you mentioned that currencies are a ratio and not a price complethly true but from the point of trader's view all are numbers. We where looking something makes Forex worth trading.




yes. because its a ratio, not a price.

i ask you. why would that make it worth trading?


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## bunyip (9 February 2009)

Felix Profound said:


> Thanks for all comments, Forex market differs from others in this aspects:
> 
> 1- It is a 24-hour market
> I myself don't mind it a real advantage. Cause currency pairs have awake and sleep time like us. From other point of view, most of trading systems have a limited trading hours.
> ...




So far you've done nothing but waste our time. Get to the point. If you've got some 'profound' advice for us, then let's hear it.


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## MS+Tradesim (9 February 2009)

"Popcorn! Get your popcorn!" opcorn:

"I'm out of red hots though. We're now serving kebabs! Finest, grade A WW2 canned spam kebabs!!!" :kebab


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## juw177 (9 February 2009)

Personally I trade forex for several reasons:

- Profit from stupid or sound actions of governments (mostly stupid)
- Hedge against open positions when markets are closed
- Less price manipulation

And it is always good to keep an eye on forex markets as it tells a lot about the current market conditions


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## disarray (9 February 2009)

> Why Forex?




the lord says "don't change the subject, just answer the focking question"


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## Felix Profound (9 February 2009)

juw177 said:


> Personally I trade forex for several reasons:
> 
> - Hedge against open positions when markets are closed




juw177, you mean we can't hedge our open positions in other markets?


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## nunthewiser (9 February 2009)

agrees with the lord


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## macca (9 February 2009)

LOL, I am getting a laugh out of this thread.

So far it is a total waste of space, but entertaining 

Amen to that Nun, Methinks the time is fast approaching when Felix will enlighten us about how to make money on Forex, for a small fee of course.


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## nomore4s (9 February 2009)

How to make money out of forex

1. Come up with some 'black box" trading system.
2. Spam various forums with cryptic posts about how the forex markets are the way to make mountains of money.
3. Eventually introduce your "trading system" with excellent previous results and stats. Telling everyone it's the easy way to millions and you can't miss.
4. Eventually reveal how much this system will cost - a small outlay for the possible millions people can make on forex with this system.
5. Retire to some luxury island to live out the rest of your days.


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## doctorj (9 February 2009)

juw177 said:


> - Less price manipulation



Really? I thought Central Banks & governments bought/sold their own currency to smooth out fluctuations or to keep it in a band all the time?  I know Australia does it to some degree, but there are the more extreme examples where there are formal bands - China, Russia, Kazakhstan, most of the countries on the eastern edge of the Euro zone, a lot of South America, Singapore... I could go on.  Even the Yen is well 'managed' by their government.

Soros' famous trade against the pound was only successful because the Germans decided not to intervene to support the pound at the last minute.
Plenty of manipulation in currencies!

Right now, global currencies are in a 'race to the bottom' to devalue in order to remain competitive.


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## Stormin_Norman (9 February 2009)

doctorj said:


> Right now, global currencies are in a 'race to the bottom' to devalue in order to remain competitive.




its like boxing match ups between weaklings atm.

gold will most likely pound them all.


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## aohx075 (10 February 2009)

Is it coz we can short/long it? lol


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## nizar (10 February 2009)

nomore4s said:


> How to make money out of forex
> 
> 1. Come up with some 'black box" trading system.
> 2. Spam various forums with cryptic posts about how the forex markets are the way to make mountains of money.
> ...




GOLD!


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## kam75 (11 February 2009)

nomore4s said:


> How to make money out of forex
> 
> 1. Come up with some 'black box" trading system.
> 2. Spam various forums with cryptic posts about how the forex markets are the way to make mountains of money.
> ...




It's good to see these days more and more people are becoming educated not to fall for the lies of the wealth creation snake oil salesman!


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## finvik (11 February 2009)

Felix Profound said:


> Hi everybody
> I'm here to give some valuable advices about trading Forex. I hope some day in soon future, this topic be very useful for everybody interested in this about. This happens just by a group help.
> 
> First of all, I am interested to lead the subject with an important question.
> ...



I don't know what type of advice you are going to give us but i am giving you the most simplest way to make money out of forex is The object of Forex trading is to exchange one currency for another in the expectation that the price will change, so that the currency you bought will increase in value compared to the one you sold.
Example of making money by buying euros
Trader's Action 	EUR 	USD
You purchase 10,000 euros at the EUR/USD exchange rate of 1.18 	+10,000 	-11,800*
Two weeks later, you exchange your 10,000 euros back into US dollars at the exchange rate of 1.2500. 	-10,000 	+12,500**
You earn a profit of $700. 	0 	+700
*EUR 10,000 x 1.18 = US $11,800
** EUR 10,000 x 1.25 = US $12,500

An exchange rate is simply the ratio of one currency valued against another currency. For example, the USD/CHF exchange rate indicates how many U.S. dollars can purchase one Swiss franc, or how many Swiss francs you need to buy one U.S. dollar.


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## Wysiwyg (11 February 2009)

finvik said:


> For example, the USD/CHF exchange rate indicates how many U.S. dollars can purchase one Swiss franc, or *how many Swiss **francs you need to buy one U.S. dollar*.




I`ll take the second option, that is the "quote" (CHF) is how many Swiss Francs you need to buy 1 U.S. dollar.

If the "quote" was CHF/USD then this indicates how many U.S. dollars will buy 1 Swiss Franc.

Remembering the "quote" is the second denomination of the pair.The first denomination is the "base".


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## AbundantIncome (11 February 2009)

very hard is the answer ... i have been demoing ... my profit has not changed for a few days now !!!


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## Page (11 February 2009)

There are many options for making money online. But what is the suarity that you will get the payouts. Some customers are there who like to make money online free of cost and do not want to invest in it. But cannot find any such site. Is there any such site available


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## Kauri (11 February 2009)

It is a chart, first and foremost... FX.. soft commodity.. oil... metals... shares... cockroaches dashing for a bait... I often have trades on and look later to see what they are on... everything is a commode to be traded, or nott... if it meets the plan, it's on... speaking of which, pork bellies looking good, must be the spam market picking up... time to bury the snout in the trough... again

Cheers
........................Kauri


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## Trembling Hand (12 February 2009)

Well guys we didn't get much sport out of this sucker!! :whip


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## CFDTrading (12 February 2009)

*Foreign Exchange Markets Technical Outlook*

Focus: G8 Currencies

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Euro / Dollar Noisy Range Continues*

Wednesday, 11 February 2009 04:19:17 GMT 
Written by Jamie Saettele, Senior Currency Strategist 








*Euro / US Dollar*






The EURUSD is in a correction that is working higher from 1.2704.  Corrections are choppy and prone to false breaks, especially the early stages.  Still, a rally to Fibonacci resistance, which does not begin until 1.3440, is expected over the course of the next several weeks.  1.2704 needs to remain intact to keep this forecast on track.  Short term support is at 1.2883.


*US Dollar / Japanese Yen*






The USDJPY is at the center of its 87.10-94.67 range.  Former resistance just below 91 now serves as potential support.  It is likely that either a triangle or a flat is unfolding from the December low at 87.09.  I say this because both the advance from 87.09 and decline from 94.67 are in 3 waves.  The subwaves of triangles and flats are 3 wave affairs.

*
British Pound / US Dollar*





The rally from 1.35 in the GBPUSD is in 3 waves to this point and the 2 bull legs are nearly equal.  The rally could be just a 3 wave corrective advance in the ongoing bear.  The structure of the decline from 1.4990 should shed more light on the GBPUSD’s future path.  Fibonacci support is in the 1.44-1.4620 zone.   


*US Dollar / Swiss Franc*





The drop from 1.2303 is an impulse (5 waves), but the drop may be the end of a decline rather than the beginning (a C wave).  The decline would have completed an expanded flat at 1.0367.  This level serves as the secondary low in a longer term bull cycle from .9634.  Still, weakness is expected near term to at least 1.1312.  The 200 day SMA is just above 1.10.  Over the next several days, the USDCHF may complete an ending diagonal from 1.1312 that will give way to weakness over the next several weeks.


*US Dollar / Canadian Dollar*

A triangle has been underway since October and serves as a 4th wave correction.  The break from this triangle should be violent.  Near term, I favor a drop below 1.2020 in order to complete wave e (triangles are labeled a-b-c-d-e).  Aggressive traders may wish to trade the short side against the 1.2387 but the highest probability strategy is to wait for wave e to end before attempting a long position (maybe later this week or early next week) against 1.1459 for a move upwards of 1.40.


*Australian Dollar / US Dollar*

The AUDUSD is most likely working higher in order to complete a flat above .7275.  The process should take a few weeks to play out; probably the rest of the month.  Short term support begins at .6616 and extends to .6472.


*New Zealand Dollar / US Dollar*
There is a clear ‘5’ down from the 2008 high and a corrective advance from the 2008 low to .6090.  The decline from there is probably the first leg of the next bearish cycle.  The count is similar to the EURUSD count in that the first wave of the next bear leg may be complete and a recovery is expected prior to resumption of the downtrend.  The advance underway from .4958 may be wave a of an a-b-c advance that will end in the .5550-.5630 zone.  Short term support begins at .5239. 

For all charts, click here


Jamie Saettele writes Forex Technicals: The Day Ahead, Monday-Thursday (published at 6 pm EST), Daily Technicals every weekday morning (9 am EST), COT analysis (published Monday mornings), and analysis of currency crosses throughout the week.  He is also the author of Sentiment in the Forex Market.

Contact at jsaettele@dailyfx.com


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## Felix Profound (22 February 2009)

Forex is somethng to trade but it is different from other instruments in this ways:

- *Leverage*: the leverage that forex brokers provide for trading is significantly bigger than leverage for other instruments. This is what makes forex so dangerous specially for beginners who dream about being milioner out of a couple of bucks. we as professionals do not use that much leverage that brokers provide

- *24 hour market*: this is an advantage but there are some considerations that should take into account. All of us as traders got strategies to beat this market but we should remember that a complete strategy got trding hours. For example if we trade based on BREAK OUT we should remember that breakout of GBPUSD in Australia day time is not valid and can not be traded. Any way there are strategies which has been designed to be traded in sleep time of currency pairs like SEDONA

- *Volume *: As explained before in forex market we as traders have not access to the total volume of the market in every moment or even nobody has. So this is a great disadvantage of forex market in comparision to stock market

- *Fundametal*: even it seems a little bit difficult to know everything about currencies fundamental analysis, in my opinion, it is much sipler that fundamental of other markets. You should always monitor interest rates and inflation what market is focused on in trading time. For long term traders (better to say investors) there are simple atrategies to make money out of Forex.

- *Volatility*: It should be a great concern of a forex trader. Sometimes market is very harsh and your stop loss hit like a piece of cake. Then as a trader you should have different criteris for different volatility conditions in the market. I wish to say too much in this about in the future.

- *Pairs and not Prices*: As mentioned before we trade ratios and not prices in the forex market. This cause a couple of profitable trading strategies come in HEDGING category.

There are other important differencies as well. I'll mention later


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## kam75 (22 February 2009)

I still haven't worked out how to make money in FX.  Been testing for the past few weeks during London and London/US on the four majors.  Trading mini lots with real money using a moving average crossover system, similar to the one described on Babypips.com.  Not seeing any consistency in the results.  Account down 30% since begining of month.

Ahh those wonderful moving averages...wouldn't it be nice if we could all see the right hand side of a chart.


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## Felix Profound (22 February 2009)

kam75 said:


> I still haven't worked out how to make money in FX.  Been testing for the past few weeks during London and London/US on the four majors.  Trading mini lots with real money using a moving average crossover system, similar to the one described on Babypips.com.  Not seeing any consistency in the results.  Account down 30% since begining of month.
> 
> Ahh those wonderful moving averages...wouldn't it be nice if we could all see the right hand side of a chart.




1- How much was your equity size and how much was your trading size?

2- How long did you back tested your trading systems? was it profitable out of long term back tests?

3- Is your trading systems mechanical or discretional?

4- Did you traded signals just based on your trading system or did you let your emotion to be involved?

5- Was you trading a demo account or real?

There are too much to find out why you have lost too much (30$ loss in a month is a disaster)


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## Wysiwyg (22 February 2009)

kam75 said:


> Trading mini lots with real money using a *moving* *average crossover system*, similar to the one described on Babypips.com.  Not seeing any consistency in the results.
> Ahh those wonderful moving averages...wouldn't it be nice if we could all see the right hand side of a chart.




What is your prefered charting time frame?
Relying on one indicator is something that may be mastered but I feel there are many other ways that appear, if willing to accept more than one method.

I reckon after a certain amount of experience (or a natural) one could look at any chart and conclude a high probability price movement.

That`s what this apprenticeship is all about.


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## sinner (22 February 2009)

kam75, what was your expectancy of the system? Are your trades meeting this expectancy? 

Not sure how using real money without expectancy qualifies as any form of "testing". Only "gambling".


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## Naked shorts (22 February 2009)

nomore4s said:


> How to make money out of forex
> 
> 1. Come up with some 'black box" trading system.
> 2. Spam various forums with cryptic posts about how the forex markets are the way to make mountains of money.
> ...




lol 



Stormin_Norman said:


> yes. because its a ratio, not a price.
> 
> i ask you. why would that make it worth trading?




Felix Profound could you answer this question? it seems that you must of accidentally overlooked it...


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## Stormin_Norman (22 February 2009)

i want that answered too. for me its the crux of why i trade currency.


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## Felix Profound (23 February 2009)

Felix Profound said:


> Hi everybody
> I'm here to give some valuable advices about trading Forex. I hope some day in soon future, this topic be very useful for everybody interested in this about. This happens just by a group help.
> 
> First of all, I am interested to lead the subject with an important question.
> ...




This is the first post in this topic. The topic start with a question, not answered yet. Why Forex? Why we should trade currencies? All explained up to know brings no reason to persuade us to trade it?

Just for a moment forget about FELIX PROFOUND (Which is scam or not, or is he going steal our money or not) and guess beside everything everybody said up to know, why people trade Forex? There must be a reason.


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## Stormin_Norman (23 February 2009)

is english your second language?


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## pilbara (23 February 2009)

Felix Profound said:


> *Leverage*: the leverage that forex brokers provide for trading is significantly bigger than leverage for other instruments. This is what makes forex so dangerous specially for beginners who dream about being milioner out of a couple of bucks.



how is it dangerous if they are only risking a coupla bucks?  Surely that's better than risking significant amounts of your own capital.


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## nomore4s (23 February 2009)

pilbara said:


> how is it dangerous if they are only risking a coupla bucks?  Surely that's better than risking significant amounts of your own capital.




I think you just proved his point.


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## Stormin_Norman (23 February 2009)

leverage isnt bad.

over leverage however is.


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## Trembling Hand (23 February 2009)

Is this thread the biggest waste of bits & bytes yet?


Felix can you PLEASE post something of value!! Please!

Something profound?


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## nomore4s (23 February 2009)

Stormin_Norman said:


> leverage isnt bad.
> 
> over leverage however is.




No arguments there from me, used correctly it is a very useful tool.

The problem is alot of people don't understand the consequences if things go wrong with excessive leverage (or even leverage in general) - you can lose a great deal more than your starting capital - alot of people in this current market have learnt very quickly leverage can be a double edged sword, just ask Storm clients.


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## MS+Tradesim (23 February 2009)

C'mon guys. No doubt he has a lot of forums to get around. He can't spend all his time here answering your questions!


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## nomore4s (23 February 2009)

Trembling Hand said:


> Something profound?




lol, you got no chance TH, either that or it will cost you an arm and a leg


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## Stormin_Norman (23 February 2009)

with forex brokers your loss is limited at your deposit. 

in that sense its not like a leveraged loan against your house for shares which can become net negative.

if your currency account hits margin, youll be sold out and left with a fraction of your deposit.

not ideal, but not a 'storm' situation either.

again, leverage and the use of it comes under good money management. those that dont practice good money management may as well be @ the casino.


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## pilbara (23 February 2009)

nomore4s said:


> you can lose a great deal more than your starting capital



not if you choose a dealer which prohibits negative balances.


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## Felix Profound (23 February 2009)

Let's take one step forward. Let's take one step straight ahead...for any reason you have (and I have mine) you wanna trade Forex.

What we need at this step is a trading strategy which statistically wins.

but how? This is what our trading strategy supposed to answer


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## Trembling Hand (23 February 2009)

Felix Profound said:


> Let's take one step forward. Let's take one step straight ahead...for any reason you have (and I have mine) you wanna trade Forex.
> 
> What we need at this step is a trading strategy which statistically wins.
> 
> but how? This is what our trading strategy supposed to answer




For god sake!!! PLEASE take a step by all means. Something


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## fapturbo (23 February 2009)

Felix Profound said:


> Let's take one step forward. Let's take one step straight ahead...for any reason you have (and I have mine) you wanna trade Forex.
> 
> What we need at this step is a trading strategy which statistically wins.
> 
> but how? This is what our trading strategy supposed to answer




Here's a mechancial trading system that anyone can use to trade.

Yes I know.... those that trade trade.... those that can't, sell trading systems..

Once in a while you come across something that does actually make you money... not my system either...

http://www.fivetictrading.com/forex/Fxlivetrade/Fxlivetrade.html


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## Felix Profound (23 February 2009)

A Forex strategy to be complete should concern about these all :

- Which currency pairs to trade?

- When to trade and when not to trade?

- Entry point

- Exit point ( profit or loss )

- Trade size (versus balance)

- Withdrawal order

- Attitude


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## Stormin_Norman (23 February 2009)

> http://www.fivetictrading.com/forex/...livetrade.html




is that the same one u posted over in one of the pound threads?

im still waiting for something profound from you felix. so far it all just seems like poorly copied statements from a 'forex for dummies' book which addresses none of the points discussed in this thread.


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## Trembling Hand (23 February 2009)

fapturbo said:


> Here's a mechancial trading system that anyone can use to trade.
> 
> Once in a while you come across something that does actually make you money... not my system either...




Ya sure about that? A breakout system with an initial stop greater than the target. Don't know what tricks this dude has but in my book that's a recipe for losses.


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## fapturbo (23 February 2009)

Stormin_Norman said:


> is that the same one u posted over in one of the pound threads?
> 
> im still waiting for something profound from you felix. so far it all just seems like poorly copied statements from a 'forex for dummies' book which addresses none of the points discussed in this thread.




Yes same link.

I am allowed to post links to sites that require you to pay to learn the trading system right?

If you are going to learn to trade you might as well start with something that is proven to work...


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## fapturbo (23 February 2009)

Trembling Hand said:


> Ya sure about that? A breakout system with an initial stop greater than the target. Don't know what tricks this dude has but in my book that's a recipe for losses.




Take two positions.

Take one position off at roughly 2/3 ATR. Trail the second position...


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## Trembling Hand (23 February 2009)

fapturbo said:


> Take two positions.
> 
> Take one position off at roughly 2/3 ATR. Trail the second position...




LOL!!


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## Stormin_Norman (23 February 2009)

tbh, the best systems ive come across anywhere are on the forex factory forum.

there is a bit of chaff in amongst the wheat. but over there is a great start. and best of all you get (mostly) honest opinions and views.

all my ideas have had their genesis from that forum.


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## Felix Profound (24 February 2009)

*Attitude*



Felix Profound said:


> A Forex strategy to be complete should concern about these all :
> 
> - Which currency pairs to trade?
> 
> ...




I start with atitude cause I see most of people in this around are angry.
Atitude is most important thing in trading and remember if you going to trade with same feeling you are a loser.

Be happy
This is the best job in the world and if you know how to do it all your dreams come into reality.

Trading is 5% analysis, 5% instinct, and 90% emotion management. For good traders this statement holds true, but for majority of the traders its 90% emotion and no management! Being able to manage your emotions, which are inevitably going to play a role in your trading, is the key to being successful. 

Too often than not, traders, when they are making money, will think they are invincible. That over confidence leads to them letting their guards down, opening themselves to a potential disaster. That's one end of the spectrum. On the other end are traders who after a couple of losing trades become trigger shy and cannot take advantage of the opportunities in front of them. Losing positions happen. No trader can make money on all trades. The currency market is the biggest in the world; you should give it the respect it deserves. This does not mean you should be scared to trade, just the opposite but you should always have discipline and treat it like a business. The key is to manage your emotions so that you remain close to an even keel. Don't let it get out of hand in either direction or you risk losing more than just your discipline.


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## nunthewiser (24 February 2009)

Well what a load of bollocks this turned out to be .


no offense intended


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## Stormin_Norman (24 February 2009)

nunthewiser said:


> Well what a load of bollocks this turned out to be .
> 
> 
> no offense intended




the problem is your too angry. youll never succeed with that attitude.


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## macca (24 February 2009)

Come on Felix,

Joe has to pay for all the wasted space, quit posting cut and paste stuff.

If you want to learn then read over at Forex Factory, it really is a gold mine.

Also you might consider the fact that there are guys on this forum that are actually trading successfully.

The only thing they are angry about is that newbies may read some of the stuff you have pasted and think that it is right.

Traders who actually trade successfully are the people to learn from and we have some right here.


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## macca (24 February 2009)

I have just had another read of Go Markets conditions and it seems to me that your losses are NOT limited to the balance of your account

http://www.gomarketsaus.com/legal_documentation

So do we have access to an MT4 broker here in Oz that will limit our losses to our account balance ?

I know that quite a few OS do limit losses to balance hopefully I can accses one of them from here.


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## Trembling Hand (24 February 2009)

Stormin_Norman said:


> the problem is your too angry. youll never succeed with that attitude.




 Well his making me angry!!

Felix you are WRONG.


> Trading is 5% analysis, 5% instinct, and 90% emotion management




What a Joke. Its 90% skills like friggin everything else in the world. This is a classic. Some dude who hasn't a clue regurgitating cliched rubbish and no doubt actual believing himself. Which is fine after all its a zero sum game and we need LOTs of jokers like this.

Hey Mr profound when you coming over to the futures market. We won't hurt your emotions over there. :


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## Stormin_Norman (24 February 2009)

macca said:


> I have just had another read of Go Markets conditions and it seems to me that your losses are NOT limited to the balance of your account
> 
> http://www.gomarketsaus.com/legal_documentation
> 
> ...




gomarkets limit your losses to the account balance. the PDS is stating that they dont promise that however. bit of double dutch there. but theyre just covering themselves in the event of a drastic market i believe.


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## Trembling Hand (24 February 2009)

Stormin_Norman said:


> gomarkets limit your losses to the account balance. the PDS is stating that they dont promise that however. bit of double dutch there. but theyre just covering themselves in the event of a drastic market i believe.




Yep I think most of them have that in their PDS. So if the :fan *they* are covered. Typical fine print.


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## Stormin_Norman (24 February 2009)

lol @ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





im pretty sure oanda guarantee you loss @ account balance. i dont think IBFX does though.

but like u said, its a pretty standard clause.

one has to always remember that brokers are in the business to make money, not to trade on your behalf.


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## BentRod (24 February 2009)

> Hey Mr profound when you coming over to the futures market. We won't hurt your emotions over there.




No, he's ours! :1luvu:


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## glenn_r (24 February 2009)

"
Hey Mr profound when you coming over to the futures market. We won't hurt your emotions over there. "

Can you still buy soap on a rope?


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## MS+Tradesim (24 February 2009)

*Re: Attitude*



Felix Profound said:


> I start with atitude cause I see most of people in this around are angry.




Felix, I don't think anyone around here is angry in general.

What makes people on this forum angry are scammers who try to fleece newbies of their hard-earned by selling them overpriced blackboxes/systems/seminars. 

You see, this forum is not your average "anything goes" Wild West playground. There are way too many genuine professional traders and a very good moderator team who won't let scams get air time.

I note one of your posts has been edited for spam. If you want credibility, earn it by posting something of value.


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## sails (24 February 2009)

fapturbo said:


> Here's a mechancial trading system that anyone can use to trade.
> 
> Yes I know.... those that trade trade.... those that can't, sell trading systems..
> 
> ...




Once that typical, but annoying, marketing page (as seen in fap's link above) - I'm outta there fast.utthedoor:  
If the product is so good, surely it shouldn't need all that marketing rubbish to go on... and on... and on ... and on...


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## Trembling Hand (24 February 2009)

sails said:


> Once that typical, but annoying, marketing page (as seen in fap's link above) - I'm outta there fast.utthedoor:
> If the product is so good, surely it shouldn't need all that marketing rubbish to go on... and on... and on ... and on...




Better still waste 10 min of your life and have a look at the vid. Its a hindsight trade on a replay sim and the scammers haven't even the brains to pick a trade with a positive risk to reward. Its a bloody replay!! And then fap pimps it.


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## Stormin_Norman (24 February 2009)

no loss trades on the example.


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## aleckara (24 February 2009)

Newbies when they see all these methods of trading get confused and wonder if it is possible to make moneyby trading at all. And of course if it is possible there is no way to learn unless you already know.
Myself when I see pages like the one above with their marketing speel I shy away immediately - even if I don't know too much about the subject something inside tells me that there isn't enough evidence to trust these things.

I always assume with trading that the people who do know don't really share too often - they are busy making money and don't need to.


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## CanOz (24 February 2009)

We are giving this thread too much attention already. There is no value adding going on here, shut it down and make it go away please. 



CanOz


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## nulla nulla (24 February 2009)

Stormin_Norman said:


> with forex brokers your loss is limited at your deposit.
> 
> in that sense its not like a leveraged loan against your house for shares which can become net negative.
> 
> ...




Would BNB be a reasonable example of someone that should have gone to the casino?


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## Stormin_Norman (24 February 2009)

BNB?


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## fapturbo (24 February 2009)

Trembling Hand said:


> Better still waste 10 min of your life and have a look at the vid. Its a hindsight trade on a replay sim and the scammers haven't even the brains to pick a trade with a positive risk to reward. Its a bloody replay!! And then fap pimps it.




I can see you obviously are very experienced. Way Way more than me.

Potential Five Tic Trade Setting up here....

Need an upbar closing outside of bollinger bands.


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## Joe Blow (24 February 2009)

fap,

Can you please attach images larger than around 700 pixels wide rather than just link to them as they distort the right hand side of the forum border when displayed. People can then click on the thumbnail to view the image in its original dimensions.

I have taken the liberty of attaching your last image.


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## Felix Profound (24 February 2009)

Trembling Hand said:


> What a Joke. Its 90% skills like friggin everything else in the world. This is a classic. Some dude who hasn't a clue regurgitating cliched rubbish and no doubt actual believing himself. Which is fine after all its a zero sum game and we need LOTs of jokers like this.
> 
> Hey Mr profound when you coming over to the futures market. We won't hurt your emotions over there. :




If someone have ever experienced real trading finds out he/she is not that rational and wise he/she thinks.

Suppose you know best holy grail systems about trading, but when it comes to real trading you see there is somebody else in your shoes who click the mouse and open positions.

You sure have experienced it. This is the main thing distinguishing winers and losers.


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## Trembling Hand (24 February 2009)

Felix Profound said:


> You sure have experienced it. This is the main thing distinguishing winners and losers.




Absolute BS. The thing that distinguishes winners from losers is SKILL. The emotion stuff is marginal BS spewed out by dudes like you who can't and don't trade.

Mr Not So Profound everyone is waiting on you. Where is the profound knowledge?


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## Felix Profound (24 February 2009)

*Attitude*

Anymore, I don't know how to emphasize on attitude when trading. This is a just thing you can find out in your solitude before going long or short.

Just accept me

If you are angry, upset, excited or anything odd...you are going to lose in your next position (This is regardless you got the best trading system or not)

P.S.: Trading System and Trading Strategy in trade terminology are not same. A complete trading strategy includes a trading system.


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## Trembling Hand (24 February 2009)

CanOz said:


> We are giving this thread too much attention already. There is no value adding going on here, shut it down and make it go away please.




Going long this idea without emotion. Apparently that will make it work. 

Just accept me :


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## Felix Profound (24 February 2009)

Trembling Hand said:


> Absolute BS. The thing that distinguishes winners from losers is SKILL. The emotion stuff is marginal BS spewed out by dudes like you who can't and don't trade.
> 
> Mr Not So Profound everyone is waiting on you. Where is the profound knowledge?




SKILL alright
but in what? I say in emotion control. 

I want every body who has blown out an account list all his closed trades to see how much of his/her positions are based on his/her trading system.

I say just 5 to 10%

rest of positions are based on instant decisions.

I hope you are a profitable trader but for sure you have lost some account. Frankly speaking how much of your losses are because of a losing trading system?

I accept. Mathematically speaking making money out of trading is not that easy. but if you look at statement curves of EXPERT ADVISORs you see they gradually approch to zero but the statement curve of traders fall suddenly towrad margin call.


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## Trembling Hand (24 February 2009)

Felix Profound said:


> SKILL alright
> but in what? I say in emotion control.
> 
> I want every body who has blown out an account list all his closed trades to see how much of his/her positions are based on his/her trading system.
> ...



 Err!!This is where you have no idea and the BS about emotions gets thrown around. Just because you call it a system doesn't mean it will make money!!

You are obviously not a traders Butt hole. Or you would have something to say that made sense to traders.


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## fapturbo (24 February 2009)

Going Long 1 Pip plus spread above high of Up Bar... Profit Target 15 Pips. Stop Loss 20 Pips.


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## nomore4s (24 February 2009)

fapturbo said:


> Going Long 1 Pip plus spread above high of Up Bar... Profit Target 15 Pips. Stop Loss 20 Pips.




fap, let me get this straight. Your stop is larger than your target?

What is your win rate with this system?


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## Felix Profound (24 February 2009)

*Attitude*

To be a profitable tader, it lasts 3 to 5 years. You should learn too much in this while but as long as it goes your focus from finding a holy grail turns to emotion control and money management. I wish there was some professional traders in this forum to approve me getting rid of newbie stuff


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## Trembling Hand (24 February 2009)

fapturbo said:


> Going Long 1 Pip plus spread above high of Up Bar... Profit Target 15 Pips. Stop Loss 20 Pips.




Fab if you get just 3 losses you need 4 winners just to breakeven!

That means a 57% win rate just to get BE. No wonder the dude needs to sell a system.

Mate that's not the way to trade in my most humblest opinion.


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## Trembling Hand (24 February 2009)

*Re: Attitude*

lol 







Felix Profound said:


> To be a profitable tader, it lasts 3 to 5 years. You should learn too much in this while but as long as it goes your focus from finding a holy grail turns to emotion control and money management. I wish there was some professional traders in this forum to approve me




Not to mention english teachers.


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## MRC & Co (24 February 2009)

nomore4s said:


> fap, let me get this straight. Your stop is larger than your target?
> 
> What is your win rate with this system?




BentRod explained this to me before nomore: many of these EA systems, have stops larger than their profit targets.  

This way, it generates strings of winning days and gets people sucked into the original hype of it.  

Eventually, we all know what is likely to happen, unfortunately.  

FelixProfound, very profound.  You should really write a book with all this golden information, it could go next to the rest of the trading books at Borders and enlighten all the general public on why it was, they found it so hard to make money out of the markets........


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## nomore4s (24 February 2009)

MRC & Co said:


> BentRod explained this to me before nomore: many of these EA systems, have stops larger than their profit targets.
> 
> This way, it generates strings of winning days and gets people sucked into the original hype of it.
> 
> Eventually, we all know what is likely to happen, unfortunately.




Ah, I understand now.


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## Felix Profound (24 February 2009)

*Attitude*

Just as last thing about attitude and emotion control:

If anytime in this forum or anywhere else, someone tantalizing to introduce or sell a very profitable trading systems, don't pay for that. Or don't think if you learn it completely you will make money afterwards (I suppose that is a profitable trading system)

because

when you start trading real money you see there is somebody else in your shoes who click the mouse and make instant decisions.

It last 3 to 5 years to be a profitable trader and there is no guarantee to be profitable at last.

Emotion control is very very important. It is not something that I have found out. This is what makes our profits most difficult easy money one ever earned.


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## fapturbo (24 February 2009)

Unlikely to get a fill now...

Bollinger Bands turning down and moving average starting to turn down.

Will wait for next set up.


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## fapturbo (24 February 2009)

Getting set up for a short position... Bands down.. moving average turning down, bar must close as a down bar.


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## nunthewiser (24 February 2009)

*Re: Attitude*



Felix Profound said:


> To be a profitable tader, it lasts 3 to 5 years. You should learn too much in this while but as long as it goes your focus from finding a holy grail turns to emotion control and money management. I wish there was some professional traders in this forum to approve me getting rid of newbie stuff




i want learn how to be proffesional trader too , please ignore these newbies and emotional posters here and continue with  words of greatness
on trading controllably


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## fapturbo (24 February 2009)

About to get a fill on a short by the looks..


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## fapturbo (24 February 2009)

Two Positions Short.

One with TP limit the other with Fixed Stop 20 Points


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## MS+Tradesim (24 February 2009)

*Re: Attitude*



Felix Profound said:


> I wish there was some professional traders in this forum to approve me getting rid of newbie stuff




There are plenty of professional traders here. They're waiting for you to say something that ADDS VALUE, not just copy-pastes from www.blackboxbigdollars.com. 




(**Nb:Link not genuine.)


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## fapturbo (24 February 2009)

One Position Hit TP Limit of 15 Pips. Second Position currently running... will move stop to Break Even to reduce Risk.

If current bar closes as a down bar will move stop to top of the bar.


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## nunthewiser (24 February 2009)

target of 15 pips but stoploss of 20 . i dont get the maths here ??? i do hope felix returns to help he may know why such a small target compared to stop point


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## fapturbo (24 February 2009)

nunthewiser said:


> target of 15 pips but stoploss of 20 . i dont get the maths here ??? i do hope felix returns to help he may know why such a small target compared to stop point




Because 15Min TF

Second Position Stopped at Break Even. 15 Pips on First Position.


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## Stormin_Norman (24 February 2009)

*Re: Attitude*



nunthewiser said:


> i want learn how to be proffesional trader too , please ignore these newbies and emotional posters here and continue with  words of greatness
> on trading controllably




don't encourage him.

FAP, u should open a separate thread to discuss your trading system, so it doesnt get mixed up with mr profound's profoundness.


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## nunthewiser (24 February 2009)

*Re: Attitude*



Stormin_Norman said:


> don't encourage him.
> 
> FAP, u should open a separate thread to discuss your trading system, so it doesnt get mixed up with mr profound's profoundness.




LOL wondered when someone was gunna say something 

felix isnt using the thread for much else other than text book regurgitation so it may as well be used for something


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## >Apocalypto< (24 February 2009)

I would say Felix and FAPturbo are the same person or working together....

one telling us all the requirements to be a great trader with members thinking i don't have that so I will get the EA off FAP......

personally if you're here to sell anything on the sly F#@K off,.... and peddle your snake oil somewhere else.


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## fapturbo (24 February 2009)

*Re: Attitude*



Stormin_Norman said:


> don't encourage him.
> 
> FAP, u should open a separate thread to discuss your trading system, so it doesnt get mixed up with mr profound's profoundness.




I'll read whatever he posts.

Thread title is how to make money out of forex.. Might as well put charts here to demonstrate how the system works...

Not my system either....


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## fapturbo (24 February 2009)

>Apocalypto< said:


> I would say Felix and FAPturbo are the same person or working together....
> 
> one telling us all the requirements to be a great trader with members thinking i don't have that so I will get the EA off FAP......
> 
> personally if you're here to sell anything on the sly F#@K off,.... and peddle your snake oil somewhere else.




Get over yourself mate I'm not selling anything


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## nunthewiser (24 February 2009)

>Apocalypto< said:


> I would say Felix and FAPturbo are the same person or working together....
> 
> one telling us all the requirements to be a great trader with members thinking i don't have that so I will get the EA off FAP......
> 
> personally if you're here to sell anything on the sly F#@K off,.... and peddle your snake oil somewhere else.




LOL well if fap turbo selling a sytem that is promoting higher losses than perceived gain targets , i think he will go broke tryin to sellem .

im merely a observer in the forex / futures world BUT in the worlds i do trade using a stoploss greater than your targets just dont make financial sense ............ i may be wrong and its different in your guys ponds u play in


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## >Apocalypto< (24 February 2009)

fapturbo said:


> Get over yourself mate I'm not selling anything




sure you're not.

let me guess you got booted out of Forex factory for flogging your amazing EA?


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## fapturbo (24 February 2009)

>Apocalypto< said:


> sure you're not.
> 
> let me guess you got booted out of Forex factory for flogging your amazing EA?




No mate.

I guess Fapturbo was a bad choice for username... attracts a bit of attention from people like you. 

If you don't like what I've got to post then don't read it... simple.

Maybe site Moderator can implement an Ignore Funtion so that users can put another poster on ignore so that users post do not appear.


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## Felix Profound (24 February 2009)

Why you guys spreading so much hate and negative energy.


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## Joe Blow (24 February 2009)

Okay, it would appear that this thread has run its course by degenerating into accusations, personal attacks, random hindsight trades and general incoherence.

For this reason it will now be closed.

If anyone has something of *real* value that they think is worthy of discussion then please start a new thread or add to an already existing one.

Thank you!


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