# Truck photos/IO transport



## tigerboi (17 May 2008)

Start this thread off with truck pictures & photos of some pilbara io roadtrains running the quads out of the mines,ive talked about the looming railway bottleneck as the junior miners like AGO,BRM,UMC look to in the future get their io on the rail.this is presenting a good opportunity for the road transport industry

AGO will be running quads to get their 14mt of dso out of pardoo at the south limb,continous with brumby resources pardoo ground..

so can you all post a truck associated with the IO miner you talk about,this is most prevalent in the midwest with MMX having to run a long way for each 100t to port,be good to hear all the news about the transport of the IO that is going by road...tb


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## jman2007 (17 May 2008)

Interesting idea tigerboi,

I take it you're in the transport sector yourself then. Might be a good way for people to see another important side to the industry.

Probably would have been better to start this under the 'General Discussion' forum though. 

jman


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## SM Junkie (17 May 2008)

Here are Bullbuck's truck, currently running to Aditya Birla out at Telfa, carting copper concentrate.


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## tigerboi (17 May 2008)

jman2007 said:


> Interesting idea tigerboi,
> 
> I take it you're in the transport sector yourself then.
> 
> jman




Yep sure am mate & i can see some really good opportunities with the IO sector going bananas but not much thought going into the looming capacity bottleneck on the railway,i didnt think FMG would get all there IO without running quads & i was right there,they had to run 37,000 tonnes further up the line to get it there.

Take AGO as the best example now they have to run 100t quads the 100km to port headland for their 14mt dso out of pardoo,id love a bit of that contract....now everyone has jumped on ago but ask yourself this question.
where do they fit their IO from abydos & turner river on fmg's line when by then fmg will be going to 100mt & they need bhps line for themselves?

The IO will have to go by road at 100t at a time on a 520k round trip.very expensive.see i cant see the top 3 letting a conga line of juniors holding up their lines as they have all ramped up production,so from someone who works in transport its going to come down to this...

It has to go by road to ensure shipment times...or

The top 4-6 in the pilbara have to form a super merger to group the resource so they can entice investment capital just as fmg did because they had the stuff in the ground.

Imagine AGO,BRM,UMC,? in a super merger,where each company has a division..drilling,railway construction,port construction,mining...

Thats the fourth force needed because of their position in the pilbara they have to 1.upgrade their resource.2.build their own railway..

otherwise its a dogs breakfast...everyone looking for their few million tonne of IO glory.

think of what the chinese are going to say when every shipment is still sitting in a big pile at the mine & it will happen unless a few put their heads together

There has to be more consolidation,speaking of look at the midwest...mostly mag & no railway...this is the chance for those juniors to make the midwest sit up & take notice...mis & their boss are holding the industry to ransom over there.(The wa goverment should have stepped in long ago)

Thats why i love brumby resources,transport is all taken care of,not a problem in the world.. great areas with plenty of IO just a hop skip& jump from port.. it wont be long before the chinese are knocking on their door.(yep they aint proved nothin yet but they appointed anthony ho to the board,thats a board with vision for the future)..tb


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## jman2007 (19 May 2008)

You are right tigerboi,

Competition for infrastructure is a serious issue, and awareness needs to be raised.  There is also the impact IO boom is having on other commodities, such as the grain harvest in the midwest, and the difficulties farmers are facing in getting their grain shipments to Geraldton Port via rail.

The AGO issue is an interesting one, if the scenario you raised is actually played out, then yes, that's a very significant cost to the company. Our own operation in the goldfields is running significantly above our estimates in the original economic model, in part largely due to the huge hike in disel costs. And our ore only has to travel 3.5km!

Aurox Resources (AXO) who have the Balla Balla magnetite project, have neatly side-stepped the issue of transport by proposing a 110km long slurry pipeline to Port Headland, whereby they will deliver their concentrate directly to the Port, and recieve a return water feed as well. Pre-feasibility engineering study underway now. Perhaps innovative solutions such as this will pave the way for the future? 

jman


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## tigerboi (20 May 2008)

*Re:RIO TINTO WILL DODGE THE BOTTLENECK*

Here is rios IO output at 200mtpa,i believe some of the juniors may get better value with rio than fmg/bhp as the pt headland capacity will be a bottle neck,rio the smart player by going through karratha more or less with no problems at all.

If you look at how much fmg & bhp will send through pt headland say in 2010,fmg trying for 100mt & bhp at least 200mt+ then the junior brockman/hammersly IO companies look to have a much better chance if they can get mou's with rio.

RIO iron ore.transport,mtpa

Brockman...8mt

Nammuldi...5mt

Mt tom price...26mt

Marandoo...12mt

Mesa j...30mt

Paraburdoo...5mt

Channar...8mt

Eastern range...6.5mt

West angelas...25mt

Yandicoogina...36mt

Hope downs...23mt

Rio trains:86

Mine to port:29,500t per trip

Turnaround time:33 hours

Trips per million tonnes:33

As you can see at 29,500t per trip even the railway of rios is running at near its full capacity for 200mt.imagine what the single line into pt headland will be when fmg goes to 100mt along with bhp's 200mt+.mayhem!its plain to see that many of the IO dreamers have not thought about any transport plans in the future.

Trips per 100mt:3300

Trips per 200mt:6600

Trips per day:18

Now at 29,500t per trip the actual weight of IO delivered is most likely to be around only 23,000t...re:230 wagons x 100t capacity...it therefore shows what the junior hopefuls will be up against in around 2 years time,how they hope to tack on the rear of the big three to get their IO to their customers is beyond me.

As much as they dont like it,there will have to be alot of it go by the roadtrain quads...gee there going to be some real good opportunities for us roadtrain drivers,im thinking of heading over by xmas myself as the $$$ is just to good to refuse...tb

A couple of quads at pardoo...


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## Kauri (23 May 2008)

Back in the days before Cat and Komatsu loaders..when we used electric shovels

  Cheers
..........Kauri


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## Kauri (23 May 2008)

Back in the days before random testing and we used.. .. 

Cheers
............Kauri


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## tigerboi (25 May 2008)

*Re:NOT MUCH ROOM FOR THE WANNABEES!!*

*Anyone who thinks the big 2 of bhp/rio are going to be doing any favours for the io hopefuls only need to read this,they want their stuff out before anyone else...*

*looks like the option for the wannabees has to be another port as its looking unlikely there will be the room for the newcomers..tb*




*Demand surge sees shipping industry sail into profits *

China is the driving force behind the rise in rates. 






On the back of the commodity surge and huge demand from major markets such as China for resources and materials, the shipping industry is enjoying a successful period with shipping rates rising increasingly higher. 

Capesize [vessels with more than 80,000 deadweight with carrying capacity of about 180,00 tonnes and so named because they are too big to go through the Panama Canal] rates are pushing the dry bulk market upwards and the sector is anticipating the larger carriers could fetch as much as $300,000 (Dh1.1 million) per day within the next week.

Record high Capesize rates are being paid for front haul voyages from Brazil to China, at nearly $281,000 per day. The Baltic Dry Index, the benchmark for commodity shipping rates, is up by 72 per cent from a year ago, advancing to a record for the third consecutive day, reaching 11,709 points.

The charter rate for the largest iron-ore carrying ship rose to a record $211,640 a day on May 16, according to London-based Baltic Exchange Limited.

The average daily cost was $84,000 in January after Brazilian miner Vale allowed rates to drop. Before the commodities boom began six years ago, Capesize chartering rates languished at $17,000 per day. Other main shipping indices, such as Panamax and Supramax, charter rates have also hit record levels this year. 

The demand for dry bulk carrier capacity is determined by the underlying demand for commodities transported in dry bulk carriers, which in turn is influenced by trends in the global economy. Seaborne dry bulk trade increased by just above two per cent on an average annual basis during the 1980s and 1990s.

However, this rate of growth has increased dramatically in recent years. 

Generally, growth in gross domestic product and industrial production correlates with peaks in demand for seaborne transportation. Certain economies will act from time to time as the primary driver of the dry bulk carrier market. In the 1990s, Japan acted as the primary driver due to increased demand for seaborne trade and growth in Japanese industrial production.

China has been the main driving force behind the recent increase in seaborne dry bulk trades and the demand for dry bulk carriers. 

Ship owners can virtually name their price and it gets accepted and then the next owner names their price, but only higher. Market rumours reported by the Baltic Exchange in London on May 16 of a $300,000 per day capesize fixture remained unconfirmed. But most brokers told Lloyd's List the frenzied chartering action of the past week meant these kinds of numbers could be seen in the near future. 

The strongest rates of growth have been in the Pacific market, after rates increased earlier this month in the Atlantic. Spot freight rates to carry iron ore from Western Australia to China have risen nearly 25 per cent since May 12. Rates from Brazil to China have risen around 14 per cent by comparison. Delays at Asian shipyards, such as South Korea, delivering new capesize vessels into market has exacerbated tonnage shortfalls. 

China's unprecedented demand for iron ore and coal, fuelled by rising steel prices, is cited for rising numbers of shipments, along with seasonal peaks in grain exports from the United States and South America.

Actions by BHP Billiton have also aided in pushing up ship charter rates to new records. BHP Billiton moved to exploit the Chinese boycott of its rival Rio Tinto on spot iron ore markets by chartering a large number of bulk carrier ships. BHP is known to have recently booked 17 Capesize bulk carriers to carry ore between the Western Australia and China. The big miners usually charter about nine Capesize vessels each month but demand in April was huge, with BHP Billiton chartering 13 and Rio 16. 

Regarded as a bellwether for global mining and metals demand, the Baltic Dry Index is expected to continue setting new records.

Heading the rally are Asian steel mills, which increased iron ore shipments this month from Australia and Brazil, ahead of anticipated price increase. 

China's monthly iron ore imports peaked at 42 million tonnes in April, more than five million tonnes above the previous record. China has assembled a 62 million tonne stockpile. It normally stands at 40 million tonnes. 

Asian steel mills are now paying $107 a tonne in transportation costs from Brazil, more than double the price of late January. The price for iron ore transport from Australia to China is $43 a tonne, compared with $20 a tonne a year ago.Increasing congestion at Australian export terminals has also added to pressure on the ship sector already struggling to cope with booming demand for coal, grain and other commodities. Nearly 17 per cent of the 750-strong global fleet of Capesizes was delayed at ports over the weekend. 

China is also expected to transport extra coal for its coal-fired plants, to combat power gaps created by earthquake damage to hydroelectricity systems.

Demand for cement is also underpinning shipping rates. Prices of the ships themselves have also skyrocketed. 

Demand has been so high that prices for some dry bulk ships have risen 50 per cent in the past four months. 

Despite the high ship building prices, it is estimated returns on long-term charters are at around 14 per cent to 15 per cent. Customers are willing to sign a multi-year charter and guaranteed revenue is an easier way to get bank financing. 

Banks' ship financing divisions are also enjoying a strong period. As was the case in 2007, growth in 2008 is expected to be underpinned by business with Asia, mainly China and India.

Year 2007 was a record year for the dry cargo shipping industry.

Charter rates, ship values, ship new building prices and shipyards' order books all set new records.

The medium-term outlook for the offshore drilling market is also positive.

Demand for mobile oil rigs and drilling ships has risen steadily over the past two years as a result of persistently high oil prices. 

*The numbers *
$300,000: Larger carriers could fetch up to $300,000 per day 
44m: China's monthly iron ore imports peaked at 44m tonnes in April, a rise of five million 
$281,000: Is being paid for front haul voyages from Brazil to China 
15%: Up to 15 per cent return is estimated on long-term charters despite the high ship building prices


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## tigerboi (25 May 2008)

Kauri said:


> Back in the days before random testing and we used.. ..
> 
> Cheers
> ............Kauri




Dont you mean this one mate!


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## tigerboi (26 May 2008)

*Re:NO ROOM ON FMG'S LINE LET ALONE RIO/BHP'S*

Here is a story on fmg trying for access to the other rail lines..dont forget fmg has 15 trains & 816 wagons...200 wagons per 28,000t mine to port for the capesize ships at 180,000t capacity.so thats 6.5 full trains per ship,36 full trains per 1mt...all on a single line??dont forget either that each train has 2 pusher engines that return to the mine for the next full train load...all this on a single line!!

36 trips per 1mt x 45 =1620 full train loads for the start up 45mt

1620 divided by say 300 work days= 5.4 full trains per day,520km round trip + unloading......juniors fit in where?when they hope to get theirs out these figures will be double as fmg go to 100mt...

at the looming capacity there will not be the room to stockpile the fmg & others..

the juniors over the other side say at brockman...brm & umc may be the best but only if they get a mou with rio to go through karratha..otherwise i cant see how they can overcome this huge bottle neck...

What i can see happening is these hopefuls only way 100% of getting their io to port is to sell it to fmg...at the gate...or by road...tb


*Mining lobby hits Fortescue over rail *

Jennifer Hewett, National affairs correspondent | _May 03, 2008_ 

*THE leading mining industry lobby group has launched a strong attack on Fortescue Minerals' bid to force its way on to the Pilbara rail network owned by BHP Billiton and Rio Tinto.*
In a submission to the National Competition Council, Minerals Council chief executive officer Mitch Hooke said there was "no sound economic or legal policy basis" for forcing the two big iron ore miners to open their railways to competitors. 
He warned it would have a chilling effect on the incentive to invest in such infrastructure and reduce operational efficiency and system capacity by 10 to 20 per cent. 
"Why would you seek to compromise the best performing export infrastructure in Australia, if not the world?" he said. 
"It would result in significant losses for at best trival offsetting benefits." 
Run by mining entrepeneur Andrew Forrest, Fortescue is not a Minerals Council member. BHP and Rio are members. 
Mr Hooke said that the Minerals Council would not normally get involved in a dispute between companies but had decided to take the unusual step because the case had such important policy implications. 
"I have never seen such an open and shut case," he said. "This is privately built infrastructure that was never in public ownership." 
Fortescue Metals Group has been fighting a long-running battle with BHP and Rio over third-party access to their rail infrastructure. 
It has had relative success with its argument in the NCC and in Federal Court in having the Mt Newman rail track "declared" and thus required to be open to third parties. 
Fortescue is now seeking to expand this declaration to the whole rail Pilbara network via the competition council. Meanwhile, BHP has appealed to the High Court to overturn various Federal Court judgments that have also gone in Fortescue's favour. Both BHP and Rio argue that any access would disrupt their tight production lines already running at full capacity. 
Resources Minister Martin Ferguson last month warned BHP and Rio that they should negotiate access with Fortescue rather than fight the issue through the courts and other legal channels for years to come. 
But Mr Ferguson is focused on negotiating commercial terms for haulage -- ore from other companies being carried on BHP or Rio trains -- rather than access for other companies' trains to use the track. 
BHP and Rio are not quite as opposed to this concept although they still don't like it. They argue that it would still be disruptive and insist that they have no excess capacity anyway. 
Fortescue believes that both companies would use this argument to insist there was no practical way to haul iron ore for others. 
Fortescue has now built its own rail line but access to BHP and Rio rail networks would greatly improve the value of many other iron ore deposits in the Pilbara, including some of Fortescue's. 

Mr Hooke said that given the public policy implications of the NCC deliberations, he had sent copies of his submission to various federal ministers as well. 

He said that haulage was a different matter to third party access and one for commercial negotiations between the parties. 

But he said it should remain a voluntary arrangement rather than a mandated one. 

The Minerals Council believes that trade practices law should be amended to prevent imposing third party access on vertically integrated and tightly managed logistics chains, particularly in export industries.


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## hangseng (26 May 2008)

A little pic of a truck in the last dying phase of a rather large fire.


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## tigerboi (27 May 2008)

*Re:ATLAS IRON: COST TO TRANSPORT 1MT OF IO*

Been crunching the numbers on the pardoo dso that AGO plan to be running the 75k from mine to port,by getting the approx.fuel bill of the transport operator you can guesstimate the overall cost to AGO per 1mt of IO from the pardoo mine to the port,starting at the current $1.80 per litre of fuel.(keep in mind that the contract will be pegged to the fuel price)

The IO is run to the port by 150t gross quad roadtrains,net 100t per trip which is a total of 150kms,75kms at its full gross weight at near 150t.i reckon around 140 litres(sm junkie correct me if im wrong?) fuel per 150km trip,the quad side tippers dont always run back empty,there is equipment that goes back to the mine as well.

Atlas iron operation,1mt of iron ore from pardoo mine to pt headland
by quad side tipper roadtrains on a 150t permit,100t net per trip.

1,000t=10 trips,1500kms

10,000t=100 trips,15,000kms

100,000t=1,000 trips,150,000kms

1,000,000t=10,000 trips,1,500,000kms

140 litres x10,000 trips= 1,400,000 litres x $1.80= $2,520,000 fuel bill

now fuel should be 1/5th(20%) of the operators costs,bearing in mind the drivers up there are the best paid in the world not just australia as they have to be enticed with allowances for accommodation,isolation of the job,cost of living up there etc,so the operator has to keep his 2 biggest costs at below 45-50%(fuel & wages)

so $2.52m x 5 =$12.6m per 1 mt,my first guess was around $11m but with fuel surging big time ive started at $1.80,but ill show the rest from say $1.50 upwards.

Estimates of total cost based on operators fuel usage/bill

140 litres x 10,000 trips= 1,400,000 x $2.00=$2,800,000($14.00m)

140 litres x 10,000 trips= 1,400,000 x $1.90=$2,660,000($13.30m)

140 litres x 10,000 trips= 1,400,000 x $1.80= $2,520,000($12.60m)

140 litres x 10,000 trips= 1,400,000 x $1.70=$2,380,000($11.90m)

140 litres x 10,000 trips= 1,400,000 x $1.60=$2,224,000($11.20m)

140 litres x 10,000 trips= 1,400,000 x $1.50=$2,100,000($10.50m)

You can see how the fuel price is going to hurt AGO big time,now they start in october i believe when more than likely diesel will be at $2.00,the estimates show that every 10c rise in fuel AGO will be up for $700,000 more or $70,000 for every cent it rises..

These estimates are for 1mt & i understand AGO are looking to get 3mt out in the first year...

so my ball park figure is $12.60 per tonne for each 1mt at the current fuel price.also depends how the contract is done,but it will contain the provision for rises in fuel,now at $12.6 per mt i havent included the 15% fuel levy,the final cost per mt could well be up to $16.00 per mt now times that by the 14mt they are aiming for..phew...how much are they getting per tonne for the io?...are they going to put this 14mt on the spot market or its already taken...

The cost of io transport for the midwest companies such as gbg & mmx is around the 20% mark,so i expect AGO to come in about 12-15%...

cfe & arh are about 4-8%,so you can see how your location has a big effect on costs...tb


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## tigerboi (27 May 2008)

*Re:TERRITORY RESOURCES LOOKING TO BUY A RAILWAY*

Recently i spoke about the 4 best IO explorers/miners in relation to their geographical positions...CFE,ARH,BMY & TTY having a brilliant piece of railway straight to the port at darwin,now this guy is thinking the way the juniors in the pilbara should...heres the story on the md of TTY...tb

going to 3mt next year with not a drama in the world about getting the IO on a ship...compare that to the few that somehow hope to piggyback their own 1-3MT of IO on a gigantic conga line with fmg...shows what a great position TTY has got for themselves.

could be turned into a nice little earner for TTY...

Kiernan signals railway move
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Tuesday, 20 May 2008
Kate Haycock

*MICHAEL Kiernan, head of emerging iron ore miner Territory Resources, has flagged his company’s intention to become involved in the FreightLink sale as the rail provider, responsible for the Adelaide to Darwin rail service, is put on the market.*


Michael Kiernan
The company and its key infrastructure asset, the rail line bisecting the continent, are up for sale after FreightLink faced difficulty meeting its debt obligations from the project’s construction.

Kiernan revealed Territory’s intention to become involved in the sale this morning.

“Territory Resources, together with our partner, Noble, plan to declare our interest that we would like to become involved in a possible acquisition,” Kiernan told _MiningNews.net_.

Territory has become one of the major customers of the rail line since it began mining at its Frances Creek operations last year, with 500,000 tonnes of iron ore transported from the mine to Darwin port since operations began. 

“The bottom line is, as Andrew Forrest says, mining of iron ore is not necessarily digging the iron ore, it’s the delivery,” Kiernan said.

“Logistics is the single largest cost area of iron ore and any way you can reduce the operating costs in that area is significant.”

Kiernan said Territory would be very keen at the least to acquire the rolling stock on the railway the company currently uses for its iron ore exports. 

However, he said he was not sure at this stage what sort of investment may be required, although the rolling stock associated with Territory’s operations alone is worth “in the order of $10-12 million”.

“We’d be keen, and we will be declaring an interest to UBS either on our own or together with a consortium we’d be more than happy to be involved in an acquisition of FreightLink,” he said.

He added that Territory’s plan had only been formulated this week and the company would be declaring its interest to UBS in the next few days. 

Finished in 2004, the Darwin–Adelaide railway cost some $A1.2 billion to build, including a $500 million injection from the federal, NT and South Australian governments. 

Adelaide-based FreightLink posted an after-tax loss of more than $50 million last year despite posting 70% growth in volumes transported last year. 

The company has appointed bank UBS its adviser going into the sale and it is rumoured Queensland Rail, Babcock & Brown Infrastructure Group or Asciano Group could be interested in buying the business outright.

According to the _Australian_ newspaper, state or federal government involvement could also be a possibility.

John Hoyle, an editor at _Railway Digest_, told the paper that the governments which helped finance the railway would not allow it to close even in the absence of a suitable buyer.

FreightLink chief executive John Fullerton has also said publicly this week rail services would not be affected by the sale process.

The railway line has become a key piece of infrastructure for the burgeoning minerals industry in the NT and SA.

Mid-tier miner Oxiana signed a 10-year contract with FreightLink last year over the haulage of concentrate from its Prominent Hill development in South Australia. Prominent Hill is due for commissioning in November. 

Singapore-based Om Holdings is another key customer, freighting manganese from its Bootu Creek operations to Darwin.

Kiernan said he had not held discussions with any of the other emerging or existing miners using the railway over Territory’s planned involvement.
In the meantime, Kiernan said it was business as usual for Territory. 

“We’ve had discussions with [FreightLink] and they have advised there will be no impact on our operation at all.” 

Territory plans to ramp up operations at its Frances Creek mine to 2 million tonnes per annum by the end of 2008, targeting 3Mtpa by June 2009.

Territory’s shares were last trading at 92c, down 4.5c this morning.


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## tigerboi (27 May 2008)

*Re:ATLAS NEEDS RAILWAY TO GO 3MT+*

Here is a story on AGO about going over the 3mt a year out of pardoo by using the bhp railway out of goldsworthy...tb

Atlas dives into third-party access issue
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Thursday, 1 May 2008
Kate Haycock

*ATLAS Iron has waded into the fray over rail access in Western Australia’s Pilbara region, sending a clear signal to the State Government that opening up third-party rail access would be a good thing for iron ore mining in the region.*


Drilling at Atlas Iron's projects in the Pilbara
Atlas said today it made a submission to the National Competition Council pushing third-party access to BHP Billiton’s Goldsworthy railway, which runs directly through the company’s Pardoo project.

The railway was originally constructed by BHP to service the Goldsworthy mine inland of Port Hedland, and was extended to service the Shay Gap and Yarrie mines.

However, Atlas maintains the operation now has considerable spare capacity, with only Yarrie still in operation and producing less than 1 million tonnes per annum. 

Atlas managing director David Flanagan told _MiningNews.net_ the submission sent a clear signal to the WA State Government about rail haulage in the Pilbara. 

“This is about signalling to the Government that we are supporting the Government with their rail haulage initiatives, and saying if there is a third-party rail access regime up there, there will be a lot more mining companies, and that’s good for the state.”

Atlas plans to begin production at Pardoo in 2010 and will initially truck iron ore from the project to Port Hedland, even as production ramps up from 1Mtpa to 3Mtpa.

However, Flanagan said that unless Atlas gets rail access of some sort its growth at Pardoo will be constrained at 3Mtpa. 

He also said it was foolish for the company not to investigate accessing Goldsworthy, given the highway the company will use for trucking runs alongside the railway line, and its spare capacity.

“We see ourselves having the capacity to export 12 million tonnes per annum from our two projects, Abydos and Pardoo. It’s not critical for the growth of the company, but if we are going to grow Pardoo beyond 3 million tonnes per annum then yes, we need rail access.”

Atlas has an agreement with Fortescue Metals Group about potential open access to its railway lines in the same area, which was an independent matter to the Goldsworthy access, Flanagan said. 

However, FMG is also seeking open access to Goldsworthy. 

Earlier this year the emerging iron ore producer lodged applications with the National Competition Council to declare sections of Rio Tinto’s Hamersley and Robe River railways and Goldsworthy railway networks open to third parties under part 111A of the Trade Practices Act.

“If their declaration is successful then it will mean someone can run up that railway and provide us with a haulage service or we could run our own rolling stock on the railway line,” Flanagan said. 

Atlas was one of the founders of the North West Iron Ore Alliance, and Flanagan confirmed the Alliance also made submission to the NCC yesterday in favour of third-party access to the Goldsworthy track. 

Flanagan would not comment on any discussions the company may have had with BHP.

In February, the new Federal Resources and Energy Minister Martin Ferguson flagged possible reforms to laws governing third-party rail access.

“We've got to work out a framework which guarantees further investment by BHP… and further investment by Fortescue, but not on terms which destroy what is the best mining logistics chain in the world," Ferguson said at the time. 

"We have to make sure that our legislative regime facilitates investment, efficient logistics operations, while guaranteeing haulage, but not at the expense of efficiency.”

Shares in Perth-based Atlas were last trading at $3.15, up 6c this morning.


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## tigerboi (27 May 2008)

*Re:NORTH WEST IRON ORE ALLIANCE*

This is the 4th force i was saying that have to get together so that they can get the 50mt out each year,i noticed that UMC is not in the alliance does that say something for their future?(bhp to take them?)

Of the alliance members,ago,brm,ioh,bci,ferrauss...looking at ioh i think they will eventually get swallowed up by possibly brm.

ioh has good ground & potential but they are only small fry in that area also soon there will be a new IO company in the pilbara with brilliant tenements.tb



Alliance backs Pilbara iron ore juniors
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Monday, 21 April 2008
Colin Jacoby

*THE North West Iron Ore Alliance has called on the State Government to look at the needs of junior iron ore miners when determining expansion and access to infrastructure in Western Australia’s Pilbara region.*



The alliance – which consists of Atlas Iron, BC Iron, Brockman Resources, FerrAus and Iron Ore Holdings – was launched in Port Hedland over the weekend and will cooperate on issues such as infrastructure development and access, statutory approvals and community development. 

The alliance members will look to work with local, state and federal governments in considering the needs of junior miners when determining expansion and access to rail and other transport infrastructure and the planned expansion of social and economic infrastructure. 

The alliance also said a goal would be to help improve opportunities and lifestyles of local residents and to foster partnerships and training and employment opportunities for all Pilbara residents as well as Alliance workers and their families. 

Alliance chairwoman Megan Anwyl said the development of a junior iron ore industry in the Pilbara had the potential to benefit the Australian iron ore industry as well as the economic and social development of the Pilbara and its towns. 

“By working together, North West Iron Ore Alliance members have the potential to pool resources to make sure that the benefits from projects flow back to the people that live and work in the Pilbara,” she said.

“These projects will generate significant employment and business opportunities in the Pilbara plus increase the diversity, depth and sustainability of the multi-million dollar iron ore sector.”

Anwyl added that the Alliance members are also keen to maintain ongoing dialogue with local Pilbara residents about how best to support future regional development. 

“The North West Iron Ore Alliance will work in close consultation with the Port Hedland and Pilbara communities to develop a new junior iron ore industry that will bring long-lasting benefits to the region,” Anwyl added


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## tigerboi (27 May 2008)

*ReILBARA MAP,TRANSPORT OVER A HUGE AREA*

Here is a much better map of the pilbara area which shows just what the iron ore hopefuls face,in fact a map can never tell even 10% of the task ahead..for these guys its huge.you dont realise how big this country is until you get out in these parts.

Australia has the best road transport in the world through sheer need of it so although it looks tough through the combinations we use things will get done..tb

Blue lines are the railways,grey the roads...


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## Adam A (27 May 2008)

Really appreciate the effort your putting forward here tigerboi 

For a city boy like me its great info, thanks for sharing


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## tigerboi (28 May 2008)

*Re:SHES A BIG COUNTRY...AUSTRALIA*



Adam A said:


> Really appreciate the effort your putting forward here tigerboi
> 
> For a city boy like me its great info, thanks for sharing




No probs mate im the original balmain boy(we dont cry!)myself but ive seen a bit of the country sitting up on top of a cat 550 throwing 18 gears around with 2 or 3 trailers behind me...nothing like it...gee even when i got a few weeks off i get an itchy palm for the gearstick..:

love it mate wouldnt do anything else,beats sitting in an office all day,boss never hassles you,usually wherever you are heading the linehaul manager will ring you in the morning...yep tb hows it going?sweet eta 1 hour see ya,no standing over you do this do that..

great job great life(except for knumbskull car drivers)

toll,triple at pardoo roadhouse


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## tigerboi (5 June 2008)

*Re:BHP/RIO RAILWAY SUBMISSIONS,A MUST READ*

Here is the big 2 submissions to the national competition council on the railways,this makes very interesting reading in regards especially to fmg who will ultimately not get the access it wants as it will harm the others business,besides that infrastructure is privately owned..anyhow read it & see how the chances of others like ago,brm,pol are of getting their io on to rail..

RIO in their submission points out fmg(tpi)want access to the lines not to transport their own io but so they can haul for 3rd parties...(are fmg for real.??,can we use your railway to make money.?? & force you the owner to get in the conga line...what a laugh,no wonder rio/bhp are defending it stoutly)i cannot see how fmg will get access as firstly they are private lines & bhp/rio are quite right to say you are not getting unfettered access to our privately built railways so that you fmg can make money,madness..fmg trying to pull a shifty one.plus they will have to build another railway...for mindy mindy..tb

BHP...http://www.ncc.gov.au/pdf/DeRaGwSu-033.pdf

RIO...http://www.ncc.gov.au/pdf/DeRaGwSu-040.pdf

The entire RIO submission is a must read as you will see info not seen before from an investors point of view...biggest thing is capacity,re:none left over for the hopefuls..looks like most will go by road as RIO intend to be moving 320mt by early 2009...so that side of the pilbara all full up,ditto the eastern side with bhp/fmg...

What about this forrest says to bhp we want your goldsworthy line(for fmg to haul for ago)not for fmg but so we can make profit off YOUR railway..bhp said sucko go get your own & rightly so,none of the railway drama is for fmg ore...

RIO has put together a very good report with information not seen before imo such as if fmg did use any of RIO'S lines they have to reduce their load by 20% as their newer cars have 40t loading v rio's 33t,it is estimated over 20 years the increased cost to fmg would be $1b...









Application for declaration of a service provided by the Goldsworthy Railway

*Date: January 2008*

On 16 November 2007 the Council received an application under Part IIIA of the Trade Practices Act 1974 (TPA) from The Pilbara Infrastructure Pty Ltd for declaration of a service provided through use of the facility, being the Goldsworthy Railway (the Service) (Goldsworthy Application). 

The applicant has provided a supplementary submission to the application and a letter further supplementing the application. Copies of these documents are available for download below. 

There is likely to be some overlap and common interest in this matter and the applications for declaration of the Hamersley Railway and the Robe Railway and to the extent possible the Council proposes to deal with the applications in parallel.

The Council placed a notice on 5 February 2008 in The Australian newspaper calling for submissions. The submission period closed on 30 April 2008. Submissions in relation to the Goldsworthy Application were received from the following parties:

• BHP Billiton Iron Ore Pty Ltd and BHP Billiton Minerals Pty Ltd (collectively BHPBIO) 
• The Government of Western Australia
• North West Iron Ore Alliance (NWIOA)
• Association of Mining and Exploration Companies (AMEC)
• Atlas Iron Limited (Altas)
• Minerals Council of Australia
• Chamber of Commerce and Industry Western Australia

The Council received a submission from Rio Tinto Iron Ore regarding the applications for declaration of the services provided by the Hamersley and Robe Railways. Rio Tinto Iron Ore has requested (at [1.28 and 1.29] of its submission) that the Council take into account that submission in its consideration of the Goldsworthy Application.

Copies of all relevant submissions are available for download below.

The Council will now consider the submissions received. The Council anticipates that it will release a draft recommendation in relation to the application towards the end of June 2008. Upon publishing the draft recommendation, the Council will call for submissions in response to the draft recommendation.

The Council has been notified that the designated Minister under Part IIIA of the TPA for this matter is the Treasurer, the Hon. Wayne Swan MP.





simple illustration of 3 trains onto 1 railway....bottleneck


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## SM Junkie (5 June 2008)

Not really buying the BHP argument for the Goldworthy line.  Yes it is underutilised and will need upgrading, but this may be AGO's in, invest in the upgrade of the infrastructure.  Finicane island I also don't see as a problem as it would need a branch off to the Utah berths anyway which is slightly to the left of Finicane Island. Currently about two trains a day run on the line, definately has capacity.

But that being said I do agree with BHP and Rio on access to their other lines.  These are to their primary mines and run a lot of traffic, so I'm interested to see how this will work. FMG may succeed but then there are the other hopefulls that will try to follow in their footsteps like FMS.  Not everyone can get on the lines.


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## tigerboi (7 June 2008)

*Re:RESOURCES MINISTER ON LATELINE BUSINESS*

SM did you see the interview with martin ferguson on lateline business the other night?my understanding of what he said is even if fmg win in the high court the pull that bhp/rio have is so much that the trade practices act will be changed to prevent access.here is part of the transcript...

I understand that goldsworthy is hardly used at all but bhp are well within their rights to say to fmg go get lost,see fmg only want goldsworthy so they can haul for ago not for their own operations,fmg are going to have big logistical problems to go to 100mt without the access.as they need the newman line to use as aloop,up their line & down bhp's line.but with the bhp/rio influence to have the trade practices act amended fmg are facing big trouble...

nobody has mentioned the power bhp/rio wields in politics,put it this way they will put it all over fmg as the government know which side their bread is buttered.

Now to the access problems facing AGO...huge atm...they need fmg to haul out of abydos but they also need the bhp goldsworthy line to get the 3mt out of pardoo,AGO will either have to get their own rolling stock & lease the line from bhp or get bhp to haul it for them,as i cant see fmg being allowed to cart out of pardoo for AGO on bhp's line...no one has considered that one or the amendment to the TP act.

you can see the full video...http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/business/items/200806/s2266590.htm

ALI MOORE: Well, Minister, you'd be aware of the comments made today by Marius Kloppers the head of BHP Billiton. He's made it clear that in his words, "if the objective is to encourage private sector investment infrastructure, overly regulated infrastructure or a hovering threat of regulated mandated access to existing infrastructure, is clearly not the way to go." He's obviously referring to his dispute regarding rail access in the Pilbara. Are you going to provide both BHP and Rio with some relief on that front?

MARTIN FERGUSON: I understand the issues raised by Marius. They have attracted my interest for some considerable period, both in Government and in Opposition. There is clearly a question of a balance between competition and also, a logistic regime which is probably most - one of the efficient in the world, our iron ore provinces in WA, both Rio Tinto and BHP. That is a matter for ongoing consideration, not only by myself, but a range of other Ministers such as the Treasurer.

ALI MOORE: Well, BHP for one, wants the trade practices Act modified to protect them against third party access. Will you rule that out?

MARTIN FERGUSON: Marius' views are well known to Government and they will be considered in a proper way, the same way in which the views of Rio Tinto and FMG. It's about getting the balance right which secures investment, whilst also enabling others to increase their export opportunities.

ALI MOORE: But what's the time frame for this? Because this case is already about to go to appeal to the High Court, it's also before the Australian Competition Tribunal. It's been going for years?

MARTIN FERGUSON: That's an ongoing process, both from a legal point of view and from a regulatory point of view and it is a matter that will be appropriately considered by Government in the course of the normal appropriate timetable.

ALI MOORE: And what would that be?

MARTIN FERGUSON: Well, obviously there are a range of issues from legal consideration in the High Court and also applications by FMG. They'll be considered, as is required by ministers, in accordance with the regulatory timetables.


AGO'S 2 PROJECTS AT ABYDOS & PARDOO,NEWMAN & GOLDSWORTHY RAILWAYS OWNED BY BHP.


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## tigerboi (11 June 2008)

*Re:3RD PARTY ACCESS WITH TONNAGE RESTRICTONS*

For all those holding out hope for a free for all on bhp/rio's io railways the draft proposal is for tonnage restrictions,fair enough as it will turn their lines into a car park,juniors will be disappointed in this proposal...tb




SHIPPING STEEL


*THE Western Australian State Government has opened the door for iron ore juniors to access Rio Tinto and BHP Billiton’s railway network in the Pilbara with the release of a draft proposal into the contentious issue.*



The draft third party access regime, released today by State Treasurer Eric Ripper, outlines what he said was a major step towards a “fair and reasonable” third party access system. 

Under the regime, third parties – smaller iron ore miners in the region – could be awarded access to Rio and BHP’s existing network of railways in the Pilbara. 

“Rail access is about reducing unnecessary duplications in infrastructure, it is about reducing inefficiencies in the iron ore industry, and is about providing facilities for junior iron ore miners to bring their projects into production,” Ripper said at a press conference in Perth this afternoon.

The rail access regime would only add to the value, efficiency and competition of the iron ore industry in the Pilbara, he said. 

Ripper said the details of the regime were subject to consultation and still to be settled, and could only be implemented with the agreement of BHP and Rio.

“The object of the exercise is to get a haulage regime which is agreed to by Rio and BHP and other owners of the infrastructure and is effective from the point of view of the junior miners,” he said.

However, Ripper warned the majors that if they did not agree to the Government’s third party access regime they could face federal legislation in the future forcing such access, which could be less flexible and convenient. 

While the draft regime firmly opens the door for third party access to the railways for juniors, the Government said there could be a tonnage limit on the level of access given to those third parties.

This point, which will no doubt be seized upon by Rio and BHP as the draft regime goes into its public consultation phase, could mean iron ore developments over a certain size - either on a cumulative or tonnage basis - could be prevented from accessing Rio and BHP’s railways.

If this is the case, the haulage regime would exclude larger players in the region, including Fortescue Metals Group, which last year signaled its hopes for third party access for future development of the Solomon deposit.

In its report, the WA Government also said third party access was a key part of the original state agreements signed with both Rio Tinto and BHP Billiton during the 1960s when their massive iron ore mines were first established.

The important proviso of these state agreements was that third party access did not “unduly prejudice or interfere with” the operations of the mining majors, which will be another area where the majors may find wriggle room within the spirit of the law.

BHP and Rio have staunchly opposed any third party access to their Pilbara railways and BHP is currently in legal proceedings at the Federal Court level with the Pilbara’s newest miner, Fortescue Metals Group, over potential access to its rail system.

Earlier this year the emerging iron ore producer lodged applications with the National Competition Council to declare sections of Rio’s Hamersley and Robe River railways and BHP’s Goldsworthy railway networks open to third parties under part 111A of the Trade Practices Act.

Both Rio and BHP have argued any opening of the railways to third parties such as FMG or the host of smaller juniors seeking to establish mines in the Pilbara would impact their ability to grow their own iron ore businesses. 

Ripper said the Government could face difficulties in bringing the regime to fruition but would not force third party access upon the majors without their agreement. He suggested there would be some negotiation between the Government and the majors. 

Other key details of the regime include provisions to govern which party will pay for what, with the State Government saying in the draft document it expected “the haulage provider will construct spurs to connect the third party's loading facilities to the provider's railway”.

However, the third party would be required to pay up front for the cost of construction and for any additional facilities and equipment needed, including any expansions to “fully utilised” railways. 

At today’s briefing Ripper agreed this could be cost prohibitive for some juniors but noted it would still be cheaper than building an entire railway.

Additionally, Rio and BHP have long argued their railways are in fact fully used.

Other terms of the draft regime include provisions for dispute resolution where third parties and the railway owner cannot agree on commercial terms over haulage.

The third party access would be for rail haulage services only, excluding track access, loading, unloading, port facilities or any non-iron ore haulage. 

Additionally, Rio and BHP would also need to provide certainty of service on a non-discriminatory basis, but without resorting to fixed schedules.

Public consultation on the proposal will run until July 25, with State Cabinet to receive the final report by the end of the year.


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## tigerboi (13 June 2008)

*Re:NORTH WEST ALLIANCE SUBMISSION*

This submission makes interesting reading however AGO produced 2 esimates on transport costs,75km from mine & 150 km from mine which they did not take into account the contract to haul from mine 75km to port is for a total of 150km which is the allround distance.

my estimate was $16.00 per tonne at $1.80 a litre for fuel.(75km loaded,75km empty..)

AGO'S estimate for the 150km mine to port was.....$19.50(thats 150km fully loaded so i think i might be spot on there...)

i think ago has made a mistake not going to bhp for rail access as their areas are closer to bhp's railways than fmg's...plus bhp wont let fmg haul ago's io out of pardoo whether the line is not busy or not.

look for ago to hook up with bhp when they realise fmg cant get access to goldsworthy,as for the port where is the extra 50mt going through/stockpiled?

ferraus all the way south...reckon they need to drill up much more being that far away...

heres the submission:http://www.ncc.gov.au/pdf/DeRaGwSu-005.pdf


...tb


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## Smurf1976 (13 June 2008)

What? They're arguing about using someone else's trains in WA? 

Down here in Tas the problem is far simpler - trying to find someone who wants to run trains (or even just one train for that matter) in the first place.

A strange day when business leaders and unions alike seem glad to see the end of the current operator. Trouble is, that leaves us with no trains running at all unless someone else comes along and buys them.

On the good side, it ought to fix all those derailments that have been happening. Company blames the track but the old trains the government used to run before this mob came along seemed to stay on them OK. At least the load did actually get to the other end of the line.

As for iron ore, they won't be too worried. They transport it out of Savage River by pipeline which shouldn't be able to go too badly wrong.


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## Bomba (14 June 2008)

i watched the show ice road truckers tonight on ch10.  Have seen it before on foxtel.  Amazing show.  These truckies have some big balls.  I couldnt do their job.  Imagine driving on an ice road with the knowledge it has caved in, and the truck has fallen through, and the driver has frozen to death.  What is also scary is they can hear the ice cracking underneath them as they drive over it, and cracks appear in the ice road.


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## Smurf1976 (14 June 2008)

Bomba said:


> i watched the show ice road truckers tonight on ch10.  Have seen it before on foxtel.  Amazing show.  These truckies have some big balls.  I couldnt do their job.  Imagine driving on an ice road with the knowledge it has caved in, and the truck has fallen through, and the driver has frozen to death.  What is also scary is they can hear the ice cracking underneath them as they drive over it, and cracks appear in the ice road.



Reminds me of being in a coal mine where at the end of the shift they turn all the machinery etc off and it's totally silent. Then they listen for creaking sounds to work out where the next chunk of coal is likely to fall down. 

It was interesting to have a look but I'll stick to hard rock mines and power stations as far as underground things are concerned from now on. They're a lot less stressful.

True story and it was in Australia during the 1990's - better not say exactly which mine.


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## tigerboi (14 February 2011)

*TIGERBOI: MY NEW KENWORTH*

For anyone interested in trucks check out the new truck my boss got me,very nice.
it is the ex dick johnson ford racing teams truck they used to transport the cars,so
all you asf folk if you want your freight transported to melbourne by the ultimate
professional (thats me  in a smicko kenworth see the numbers in my signature.
(free plug cool joe? we got a depot at carole park too.)...TB


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