# Royal Commission into Union Corruption



## Garpal Gumnut (9 February 2014)

It has just been announced. 

via SMH

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...nion-corruption-confirmed-20140209-329dr.html

gg


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## burglar (9 February 2014)

*Re: Royal Commission in to Union Corruption 2013*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> It has just been announced ...



AprÃ¨s le beau temps, la pluie
Comprendre

After the silver lining, a cloud ... 



I think it will be, 'ow you say, ... a wash white!


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## Garpal Gumnut (9 February 2014)

*Re: Royal Commission in to Union Corruption 2013*

Sorry about the title. I was in an email conversation with ole Barack O and put in 2013 when I shouldn't have. I have contacted Joe about it. Hopefully IFocus won't get a visit from spooks as a result. 

gg

- - - Updated - - -



burglar said:


> AprÃ¨s le beau temps, la pluie
> Comprendre
> 
> After the silver lining, a cloud ...
> ...




Merci. C'est tres bon, mais blanc sale.

gg


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## burglar (9 February 2014)

*Re: Royal Commission in to Union Corruption 2013*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> ... Merci. C'est tres bon, mais blanc sale.
> 
> gg




Public airing of linen dirty!
Yes, I see.


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## sptrawler (9 February 2014)

*Re: Royal Commission in to Union Corruption 2013*

It should make for an interesting BBQ, at Bills place this arvo.


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## Garpal Gumnut (9 February 2014)

*Re: Royal Commission in to Union Corruption 2013*

CFMEU

AWU

Any other offers on the union side.

gg


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## bellenuit (9 February 2014)

*Re: Royal Commission in to Union Corruption 2013*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> CFMEU
> 
> AWU
> 
> ...




Don't forget HSU


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## orr (9 February 2014)

*Re: Royal Commission in to Union Corruption 2013*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> CFMEU
> 
> 
> 
> ...




We'll see how it pans out, 'as value for money'. The fact that it tickles the balls of LNP goose steppers, although we already have three tiers of State sanctioned legally empowered oversight to address criminality, and any  terms of refrenace must include any corruption or influence of or over these oversight bodies. I'd like to see how a funding model for this R/commish  worked, if a crowd sourcing funding model was used, like the one now being used by the ex-climate commission; to keep the Melbourne club SC's in 'Krug,Coke and rent boys' .


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## sptrawler (9 February 2014)

*Re: Royal Commission in to Union Corruption 2013*



orr said:


> We'll see how it pans out, 'as value for money'. The fact that it tickles the balls of LNP goose steppers, although we already have three tiers of State sanctioned legally empowered oversight to address criminality, and any  terms of refrenace must include any corruption or influence of or over these oversight bodies. I'd like to see how a funding model for this R/commish  worked, if a crowd sourcing funding model was used, like the one now being used by the ex-climate commission; to keep the Melbourne club SC's in 'Krug,Coke and rent boys' .




Maybe the funding model, could be based on the same crowd sourced funding model, Craig Thomson is being quizzed about in court.


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## noco (9 February 2014)

*Re: Royal Commission in to Union Corruption 2013*



orr said:


> We'll see how it pans out, 'as value for money'. The fact that it tickles the balls of LNP goose steppers, although we already have three tiers of State sanctioned legally empowered oversight to address criminality, and any  terms of refrenace must include any corruption or influence of or over these oversight bodies. I'd like to see how a funding model for this R/commish  worked, if a crowd sourcing funding model was used, like the one now being used by the ex-climate commission; to keep the Melbourne club SC's in 'Krug,Coke and rent boys' .




The difference between a police investigation and a Royal commission is the unions and or politicians associated with the unions can tell the police to go to hell and refuse co-operation, whereas with a Royal Commission they are compelled to give evidence.

Shorten, the Labor Party and the unions are running $hit sacred of the outcome.


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## IFocus (9 February 2014)

*Re: Royal Commission in to Union Corruption 2013*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> Hopefully IFocus won't get a visit from spooks as a result.





The commissioners QC has already been on the phone asking for the inside word so I gave him a list of corrupt business men and women connected with the Liberal party and their dodgy party donations. 

I was warned to keep my mouth shut if I didn't want to get 20 years.......


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## sptrawler (9 February 2014)

*Re: Royal Commission in to Union Corruption 2013*



IFocus said:


> The commissioners QC has already been on the phone asking for the inside word so I gave him a list of corrupt business men and women connected with the Liberal party and their dodgy party donations.
> 
> I was warned to keep my mouth shut if I didn't want to get 20 years.......




Lol, caucus meetings may have to be held on visitation days.


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## drsmith (9 February 2014)

*Re: Royal Commission in to Union Corruption 2013*



sptrawler said:


> Lol, caucus meetings may have to be held on visitation days.



Put them all in the same institution.

That way they can meet and to them it will seem like nothing has changed.


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## sptrawler (9 February 2014)

*Re: Royal Commission in to Union Corruption 2013*



drsmith said:


> Put them all in the same institution.
> 
> That way they can meet and to them it will seem like nothing has changed.




I wonder which t.v chanel, will get the rights to the mini series?

This is going to be great to follow, what a moment in Australia's history. 
One way or another this period, may well go down as a major event in our history.IMO


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## Knobby22 (10 February 2014)

There is an argument whether it is worth the huge expense but corruption is a cancer on society.
On the whole I am for this exercise.


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## noco (10 February 2014)

*Re: Royal Commission in to Union Corruption 2013*



IFocus said:


> The commissioners QC has already been on the phone asking for the inside word so I gave him a list of corrupt business men and women connected with the Liberal party and their dodgy party donations.
> 
> I was warned to keep my mouth shut if I didn't want to get 20 years.......




IFocus, you can fool half the people some of the time, some of the people half the time but not all the people all the time.

What a JOKE....


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## noco (10 February 2014)

Look out Bill, they are coming to get you and Jools.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...says-tony-abbott/story-fn59noo3-1226822051963


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## Smurf1976 (10 February 2014)

The Liberals decide to have a Royal Commission into things relating to unions. Most likely it will find some problems.

And if a future Labor government (they'll be elected again someday, always goes from one to the other) decided to have a Royal Commission into things relating to big business then most likely that too would find a few problems.

I see the whole thing as being far more about politics than anything else.


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## Garpal Gumnut (10 February 2014)

I would be surprised if the Royal Commission does not expose corrupt companies in the building industry, and elsewhere. 

These companies and their executives/boards need to be pursued with recommendations for criminal prosecution, as assiduously as corrupt Unions and their officers. 

gg


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## noco (11 February 2014)

I believe there is plenty of evidence in the building induastry to warrant this Royal Commission.

It is history repeating itself with stand over tactics used by Norm Gallagher back in the 80's.....Gallagher finished up in jail.



http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/op...-to-take-a-stand/story-fni0ffsx-1226822971809


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## burglar (11 February 2014)

noco said:


> I believe there is plenty of evidence in the building induastry to warrant this Royal Commission.
> 
> It is history repeating itself with stand over tactics used by Norm Gallagher back in the 80's.....Gallagher finished up in jail.
> 
> ...




Almost correct:
Went to gaol - released - died - finished up in Heaven! lol


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## noco (13 February 2014)

The seizure of AWU documents in Perth should give the Royal commission a good start.....I reckon there will be some anxious moments for Miss Gillard.



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...h-fund-documents/story-fng5kxvh-1226825253411


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## sptrawler (13 February 2014)

I think this will blossom like an illawarra flame tree, it should be awe inspiring, as one door opens it will lead to ten more.


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## Macquack (13 February 2014)

noco said:


> The seizure of AWU documents in Perth should give the Royal commission a good start.....I reckon there will be some anxious moments for *Miss Gillard*.




Wake us up when they actually pin something on Gillard, will ya Noco?


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## IFocus (14 February 2014)

Macquack said:


> Wake us up when they actually pin something on Gillard, will ya Noco?




LOL lost count of the soon to be released sure things from the Liberal Party propaganda units, just grubs the lot of them.


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## Garpal Gumnut (14 February 2014)

The Royal Commission, should give Unions a chance to clean out all the grubs and criminals from their ranks. 

If I were a Union member I would welcome it with open arms. 

Why is Shorten so much against it?

It just does not make sense.

Their member numbers are down because people vote with their feet, there is a need for Unions but Workers mistrust them as much as they do the Bosses. 

gg


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## noco (28 March 2014)

Bad boy Michael Wlliamson is the second corrupt union leader to bite the dust after Craig Thompson .

I am wondering What Labor and the union members have to say about his $500,000 salary....I think his pay is higher than the Prime Minister.

Maybe the Royal Commission might dig up some more ex union leaders currently in Parliament including ex parliamentarians .



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...jailed-for-fraud/story-e6frg6nf-1226867439092


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## SirRumpole (28 March 2014)

noco said:


> Maybe the Royal Commission might dig up some more ex union leaders currently in Parliament including ex parliamentarians .
> 
> [




It might also dig up some more greedy (and possibly corrupt)  Liberals like Arthur Sinodinus.


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## CanOz (28 March 2014)

noco said:


> Bad boy Michael Wlliamson is the second corrupt union leader to bite the dust after Craig Thompson .
> 
> I am wondering What Labor and the union members have to say about his $500,000 salary....I think his pay is higher than the Prime Minister.
> 
> ...




This type of behavior really gets under my skin. I feel so bad for the Union members that pay thsre parasites their salary. Times are really changing, the Union bosses are worse than the bosses of the big businesses that are supposed to be so evil


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## sptrawler (28 March 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> It might also dig up some more greedy (and possibly corrupt)  Liberals like Arthur Sinodinus.




It certainly may, but I would put my money on Labor and the unions taking the most of the places.


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## Calliope (28 March 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> It might also dig up some more greedy (and possibly corrupt)  Liberals like Arthur Sinodinus.




If there were any chance of this Labor would have done it during their six years in office. Sorry to disappoint you Sirumpy but the whole corrupt edifice of union leaders, their slush funds and their influence on the election of Labor parliamentarians will come under careful scrutiny. The fallout will be very messy. Things will never be the same again.

Your fallen hero, Thomson is just the tip of the iceberg.


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## IFocus (28 March 2014)

Calliope said:


> If there were any chance of this Labor would have done it during their six years in office. Sorry to disappoint you Sirumpy but the whole corrupt edifice of union leaders, their slush funds and their influence on the election of Labor parliamentarians will come under careful scrutiny. The fallout will be very messy. Things will never be the same again.
> 
> Your fallen hero, Thomson is just the tip of the iceberg.




As much as the Liberal propaganda machine will run the story 99.9% unionists are honest and work hard for the rights and conditions of Australian workers.

The very rights I see argued here by staunch conservatives were actually won by unions not by some tosser called sir some thing caused I sucked up to a tosser PM of Australia.


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## sptrawler (28 March 2014)

Calliope said:


> If there were any chance of this Labor would have done it during their six years in office. Sorry to disappoint you Sirumpy but the whole corrupt edifice of union leaders, their slush funds and their influence on the election of Labor parliamentarians will come under careful scrutiny. The fallout will be very messy. Things will never be the same again.
> 
> Your fallen hero, Thomson is just the tip of the iceberg.




Well it looks like Labor/ union are +1 already, Williamson HSU is going down.

Does anyone know how to put a score card up, I know it is a bit off, but I feel this will have historical importance.

That's only my opinion, but it may be a turning point for both sides of politics, a reality check is needed.

The current belief that a stint in politics, gives a lifetime of sucking on the taxpayers teat has to stop.

The current Senate election in W.A, just shows how stupid things have become, 70 odd wannabies.


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## noco (28 March 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> It might also dig up some more greedy (and possibly corrupt)  Liberals like Arthur Sinodinus.




There have been no allegations made against Arthur Sinodinos....he is only a witness.....I quote Craig Emmerson "innocent until proven guilty".

I am glad you said "might"  or are you hoping they might find something?


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## sptrawler (29 March 2014)

IFocus said:


> The very rights I see argued here by staunch conservatives were actually won by unions not by some tosser called sir some thing caused I sucked up to a tosser PM of Australia.




The problem is IFocus, the very rights I see argued here, were prostituted, by what you call union representitives.
From personal experience. 
I lived and went through the Peter Cook, Jack Marks era, from my memory they were banned from showing their faces at a certain Collie Power Station. I'm sure there is a motion on the books, I was there.lol
But lets just slag off, because you can.lol

The union reps suck up, just as much as everyone else, from my experience. IMO


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## SirRumpole (29 March 2014)

noco said:


> There have been no allegations made against Arthur Sinodinos....he is only a witness.....I quote Craig Emmerson "innocent until proven guilty".
> 
> I am glad you said "might"  or are you hoping they might find something?




I am just recalling the Painters and Dockers Royal Commission back in the 80's which unearthed the "bottom of the harbour" tax avoidance schemes of some very wealthy individuals and companies.


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## IFocus (29 March 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> I am just recalling the Painters and Dockers Royal Commission back in the 80's which unearthed the "bottom of the harbour" tax avoidance schemes of* some very wealthy individuals* and companies.




Who will be soon in line for knighthoods I would imagine


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## noco (29 March 2014)

I doubt Julia Gillard will become a dame when she is hauled into the AWU scandal and the Royal commission into union corruption.

I think Julia will be doing quite a lot sweating for a while.



http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/..._just_how_big_the_awu_scandal_is_you_know_the


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## SirRumpole (29 March 2014)

Calliope said:


> Your fallen hero, Thomson is just the tip of the iceberg.




I see very little difference (in theory), between taking $24,000 from union members and ripping millions from shareholders in over inflated executive salaries and bonuses, and also from the taxpayer in dodgy entertainment and other so called business related tax deductions.

In practice of course, the latter two are far more lucrative to the recipients.


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## Calliope (29 March 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> I see very little difference (in theory), between taking $24,000 from union members and ripping millions from shareholders in over inflated executive salaries and bonuses, and also from the taxpayer in dodgy entertainment and other so called business related tax deductions.
> 
> In practice of course, the latter two are far more lucrative to the recipients.




The Shorten Sirumpy Charade.






> Jon Faine, ABC Radio 774 yesterday:
> 
> *SHORTEN: No-one on the Labor side has any time for crooked behaviour, full stop. It is not acceptable ”” never has been, it isn’t and it never will be.* Talk about gangs, and construction, and corruption need to feel the full weight of the law.
> 
> ...


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## SirRumpole (29 March 2014)

> Faine: But you go to dinner at some Labor Party mate’s house and you have a look around at the multi-million surrounds, you don’t wonder how they came about that wealth?




What's the matter with that ? Don't you like free enterprise ?


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## noco (29 March 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> I see very little difference (in theory), between taking $24,000 from union members and ripping millions from shareholders in over inflated executive salaries and bonuses, and also from the taxpayer in dodgy entertainment and other so called business related tax deductions.
> 
> In practice of course, the latter two are far more lucrative to the recipients.




Don't forget Michael Williamson's grand salary as head of the HSU union $500,000.....I guess we will just turn a blind eye to that one.....what do you think?


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## SirRumpole (29 March 2014)

noco said:


> Don't forget Michael Williamson's grand salary as head of the HSU union $500,000.....I guess we will just turn a blind eye to that one.....what do you think?




Not at all, it was totally exhorbitant, a rip off.

So are you now going to defend business lurks and perks ?


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## noco (29 March 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> Not at all, it was totally exhorbitant, a rip off.
> 
> So are you now going to defend business lurks and perks ?




Not at all...if they illegitimate they deserve the full force of the law.....having said that, I would imagine there are a lot of loop holes these fellows know how to use and it is up to the government of the day to close them.


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## Garpal Gumnut (29 March 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> Not at all, it was totally exhorbitant, a rip off.
> 
> So are you now going to defend business lurks and perks ?




Both Unions and complicit Building Companies who do not assist the RC to clear these crimes from our country's infrastructure and projects deserve to be pursued with the full force of the law. 

Prosecutions will ensue I am told of both Union and Industry figures, as well as hefty civil claims for damages.

gg


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## Calliope (29 March 2014)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Both Unions and complicit Building Companies who do not assist the RC to clear these crimes from our country's infrastructure and projects deserve to be pursued with the full force of the law.
> 
> Prosecutions will ensue I am told of both Union and Industry figures, as well as hefty civil claims for damages.
> 
> gg




Yeah. Firms like Theiss who bankrolled Bruce Wilson with hundreds of thousands to buy protection from...Bruce Wilson.



> BIG construction companies don’t desperately need a new federal government building code; they desperately need a new spine. The government doesn’t actually need a code either; it could simply not give infrastructure jobs to companies that behave like corporate thugs ”” and only thugs force other businesses’ people into union deals against their will.
> 
> This week, construction industry watchdog head Nigel Hadgkiss surprised us all when he admitted it has been “widespread practice” for large building companies to sign union EBAs and then force smaller businesses to sign the same EBA. Industry people know which companies he is referring to.



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...asing-the-unions/story-fnkdypbm-1226867879795


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## IFocus (29 March 2014)

noco said:


> Don't forget Michael Williamson's grand salary as head of the HSU union $500,000.....I guess we will just turn a blind eye to that one.....what do you think?




OK you win Sinodinos only made $200K for 50 hours work.


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## Julia (29 March 2014)

IFocus said:


> OK you win Sinodinos only made $200K for 50 hours work.



I think we'd all agree that seems somewhat excessive.  And that it's not a good look for someone with a fairly high profile.

However, IF, if someone offered you $200K for 50 hours of whatever work activity you currently engage in, would you turn it down?  I don't think most people would.  It isn't illegal to accept an offer of X amount for X hours.


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## Garpal Gumnut (29 March 2014)

Julia said:


> I think we'd all agree that seems somewhat excessive.  And that it's not a good look for someone with a fairly high profile.
> 
> However, IF, if someone offered you $200K for 50 hours of whatever work activity you currently engage in, would you turn it down?  I don't think most people would.  It isn't illegal to accept an offer of X amount for X hours.




This will all come out at ICAC, Julia.

I'm LNP, and it's not a good look.

gg


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## SirRumpole (29 March 2014)

Julia said:


> It isn't illegal to accept an offer of X amount for X hours.




It depends on the sort of work you do for the money. If some of that money goes to bribes, then that is illegal.


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## banco (30 March 2014)

Julia said:


> I think we'd all agree that seems somewhat excessive.  And that it's not a good look for someone with a fairly high profile.
> 
> However, IF, if someone offered you $200K for 50 hours of whatever work activity you currently engage in, would you turn it down?  I don't think most people would.  It isn't illegal to accept an offer of X amount for X hours.




Sinodidis isn't stupid. They weren't paying him for his business skills they were paying him for his political connections.


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## johenmo (30 March 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> I see very little difference (in theory), between taking $24,000 from union members and ripping millions from shareholders in over inflated executive salaries and bonuses, and also from the taxpayer in dodgy entertainment and other so called business related tax deductions.
> 
> In practice of course, the latter two are far more lucrative to the recipients.




Just because it's legal doesn't mean it should be done.  Few things #$@^ me off these days but excessive spending of someone else's money is one of them.  Occurs everywhere.  Only a few will be nailed - too many will get away scot free.


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## Julia (30 March 2014)

banco said:


> Sinodidis isn't stupid. They weren't paying him for his business skills they were paying him for his political connections.



You're correct, of course, banco.  I think we all recognise that.

My question to IF was tongue in cheek.

Seems extremely silly of Mr Sinodinis.  Even if he is shown to have done nothing illegal, the old cliche about mud sticking is valid, and he is now tarnished goods.


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## SirRumpole (30 March 2014)

Julia said:


> Seems extremely silly of Mr Sinodinis.  Even if he is shown to have done nothing illegal, the old cliche about mud sticking is valid, and he is now tarnished goods.




In an atmosphere where people have got away with spending taxpayers money going to private weddings, I really wonder whether any mud sticks any more.

The media, and increasingly the public just brush it off with "yes, well they all do it, so why bother", and there doesn't seem to be anything anyone can do about it.


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## noco (30 March 2014)

banco said:


> Sinodidis isn't stupid. They weren't paying him for his business skills they were paying him for his political connections.




Although not knowing what he did for the $200,000, maybe we are all speculating that he was the full beneficiary.

Perhaps he may have had to engage others to do some research work, some preparation work, some work with environmentalist, some work with local authorities or some legal work.

Come what may, I guess it will all come out in the wash as to what the $200,000 represented.......however, I am sure the lefties will be hoping there a brown paper bag involved. 

If he has done something untoward, he deserves to receive the full force of the law.


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## banco (30 March 2014)

noco said:


> Although not knowing what he did for the $200,000, maybe we are all speculating that he was the full beneficiary.
> 
> Perhaps he may have had to engage others to do some research work, some preparation work, some work with environmentalist, some work with local authorities or some legal work.
> 
> ...




I have no doubt he did nothing illegal.  I'm saying trading on political connections in an attempt to get Government contracts of very dubious value to the taxpayer is bad in and of itself.


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## Calliope (30 March 2014)

*Re: Royal Commission into CorruptionUnion*



banco said:


> I have no doubt he did nothing illegal.  I'm saying trading on political connections in an attempt to get Government contracts of very dubious value to the taxpayer is bad in and of itself.




:topic This thread is about the Royal Commission into Union Corruption. If there is a connection, it is very tenuous. IFocus dragged it in as a red herring.

Revenons Ã  nos moutons.


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## banco (31 March 2014)

*Re: Royal Commission into CorruptionUnion*



Calliope said:


> :topic This thread is about the Royal Commission into Union Corruption. If there is a connection, it is very tenuous. IFocus dragged it in as a red herring.
> 
> Revenons Ã  nos moutons.




Thanks for the tip old man I'll keep that in mind.


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## SirRumpole (31 March 2014)

*Re: Royal Commission into CorruptionUnion*



Calliope said:


> :topic This thread is about the Royal Commission into Union Corruption. ns.




I'm sure that is what you would like it to be about


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## Calliope (31 March 2014)

*Re: Royal Commission into CorruptionUnion*



SirRumpole said:


> I'm sure that is what you would like it to be about




CFMEU to be fined $1.25m for blockading building sites. However it won't make much of a dent in their bankroll. Fines don't worry them. it's just part of the way they do business.




> CMFEU boss John Setka. said it wasn’t the first time or the last time a union would be found guilty of contempt.
> 
> He said the union acted under a mandate to remain a “militant union’’.
> 
> ...




http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...g-building-sites/story-fni0fee2-1226869629332


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## noco (7 April 2014)

It looks like Martin Ferguson is about to 'RAT" on Gillard  at the Royal Commission into union corruption.

Me thinks he knows aplenty.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...f-awu-slush-fund/story-fn59noo3-1226876232881


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## noco (12 April 2014)

noco said:


> It looks like Martin Ferguson is about to 'RAT" on Gillard  at the Royal Commission into union corruption.
> 
> Me thinks he knows aplenty.
> 
> ...




Oh dear oh dear.....Now Mr Latham enters the foray over Miss Gillard.....What a tangled web we weave.

The hatred and the bigotry in the Labor Party are tearing the party apart and their supporters are turning to the Greens in droves.   

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ter-of-standards/story-e6frgd0x-1226881276455


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## noco (16 April 2014)

I think Miss Gillard would be shaking in her boots.....Ralph Blewitt is about tell all and it does not concern him he spends some luxurious time at the Queens pleasure in the state penitentiary.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ng-fraud-charges/story-fn59noo3-1226885794158


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## banco (16 April 2014)

ICAC needs to call Barry's wife.  I think her testimony could be very interesting.


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## banco (16 April 2014)

Wrong thread, too much Grange.


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## noco (16 April 2014)

banco said:


> ICAC needs to call Barry's wife.  I think her testimony could be very interesting.




I think you have the wrong thread....Bof is not associated with union corruption.

But you will see Shorten, Gillard and Blewitt mentioned on this thread very soon.


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## noco (21 April 2014)

I think we are in for some very big surprises.......How the union money is raised now that they have a very small base from workers.......The unions have been using Mafia tactics of protection insurance rackets with 30 % going to the unions and then to the Labor Party......and yes some big business will be dragged into the net.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/.../comments/big_unions_big_money_big_questions/


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## Calliope (13 May 2014)

I wonder what attracted Gillard to this militant union thug. Money,power, or as she claimed, naivety?



> By lunchtime, Wilson snapped ”” and his bad day became plain diabolical. He went the knuckle on The Australian’s photographer Sam Mooy in an altercation filmed near the aptly named Bent Street in Sydney’s CBD. The images of flailing fists and shoulder charges he directed at Mooy shortly after 1.30pm were circulating within minutes
> 
> For Wilson, who was once groomed by the AWU’s “godfather” Bill Ludwig to be a future prime minister, the photographs of him instigating a violent confrontation reinforced his reputation as a militant union thug, albeit with a charismatic edge that won over the members.
> 
> ...



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...nap-at-a-snapper/story-fng5kxvh-1226915229889





	

		
			
		

		
	
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 [video]http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2014/05/12/1226915/229861-bd5ca91a-d9a4-11e3-8693-526588c1a688.jpg[/video]


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## noco (12 June 2014)

It is all starting to unravel......Shorten is one of the three monkeys......Gillard knows nothing.......Kernohan knows plenty.

Now watch the grubs to come out of the woodwork in defense.



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...lder-athol-james/story-fng5kxvh-1226951284471


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## Calliope (12 June 2014)

*AHH...MEMORIES OF THOSE COLD WINTER NIGHTS SPENT IN A COMFY BED IN ABBOTTSFORD WITH A BUXOM PARTNER.*

Still I suppose it would have been cheaper for me to use call girls like Thommo.


----------



## noco (12 June 2014)

Some big fish are about to be caught in the net very soon.


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-commission-told/story-fnii5s41-1226951956255


----------



## dutchie (13 June 2014)

It's already obvious that Julia Gillard should never have been PM.

Would have saved the country a lot of grief.


----------



## noco (13 June 2014)

Now why is this not a hot topic for discussion this morning.......But there again, if it was  involving Tony Abbott, I guess there would have been rioting in the streets and head lines in the Age and all over the ABC.

Bill Shortens name gets mentioned in what he said to Kernohan and it does not make the headlines. Shorten obviously knows plenty about Gillard's activities and the big wads of money handed to her..

The silence from the lefties is deafening this morning.




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...sion-clearly-has/story-e6frg6zo-1226952536862


----------



## Calliope (13 June 2014)

noco said:


> Now why is this not a hot topic for discussion this morning.......But there again, if it was  involving Tony Abbott, I guess there would have been rioting in the streets and head lines in the Age and all over the ABC.
> 
> Bill Shortens name gets mentioned in what he said to Kernohan and it does not make the headlines. Shorten obviously knows plenty about Gillard's activities and the big wads of money handed to her..
> 
> ...




Don't worry noco. I think that even the Abbott haters now realise that their heroine is a nasty piece of work, and they will not be silly enough to try to mount a defence of her on this thread.

This venomous outburst 18 months ago says it all;  



> Gillard let fly. “You can work out who you believe: the person who is standing here, prime minister of Australia, who has done nothing wrong, or the man who says he’s guilty and is looking for an immunity. Mr Blewitt, according to people who know him, has been described as a complete imbecile, an idiot, a stooge, a sexist pig, a liar, and his sister has said he’s a crook and rotten to the core. *His word against mine. Make your mind up*.”
> 
> The lead lawyer in Australia’s national royal commission into union corruption, Jeremy Stoljar, SC, has made his mind up. It is not a fixed position; he can change course if strong contrary evidence emerges.




I have no doubt that Wilson and Blewitt are crooks but they were acting on Gillard's advice. It's called aiding and abetting. Gillard says that Blewitt was an idiot and a stooge...maybe...but he was *her* idiot and *her* stooge


----------



## Julia (13 June 2014)

It was pretty interesting listening to Wilson's evidence from yesterday's hearing on "PM" last night.
According to Mr Wilson, the witnesses who have previously testified as to his (Wilson's) words and behaviour - I think three of them - were all lying.

He himself, of course, is telling the truth.


----------



## noco (13 June 2014)

Julia said:


> It was pretty interesting listening to Wilson's evidence from yesterday's hearing on "PM" last night.
> According to Mr Wilson, the witnesses who have previously testified as to his (Wilson's) words and behavior - I think three of them - were all lying.
> 
> He himself, of course, is telling the truth.





Wilson claims all of the witnesses are lying except he and Gillard.......and so the plot thickens......the truth must come out eventually and I believe the fearless leader or the Labor Party has plenty of information in his memory bank which may also have to revealed sooner or later.  

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...home-renovations/story-fnihslxi-1226952678146


----------



## noco (14 June 2014)

noco said:


> Wilson claims all of the witnesses are lying except he and Gillard.......and so the plot thickens......the truth must come out eventually and I believe the fearless leader or the Labor Party has plenty of information in his memory bank which may also have to revealed sooner or later.
> 
> http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...home-renovations/story-fnihslxi-1226952678146




Lies, lies and more damn lies......He said ....she said......he said.

Why doesn't the RCR ask or seek Gillards bank statements where they can see deposits and withdrawals?....That will then bring out the truth. 

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-return-to-power/story-fnihsr9v-1226953661505


----------



## noco (14 June 2014)

Source: News Corp Australia

THERE are two theatres now *busily engaged in starkly different productions about the Australian Workers Union slush fund scandal. They are on course for a spectacular clash.

The big theatre is the national royal commission into union *corruption. It has hard evidence, foren*sic examinations, legal rules, witnesses and documents in its lead-up to eventual findings on a fraud that has followed Julia Gillard for 22 years. The noisier, smaller theatre revolves around former union boss Bruce Wilson.

It is rich with vaudeville and make-believe, heavily reliant on helpful reviews from friendly *sections of the media, junk on Twitter, Mark Latham and other politic*ally partisan silliness. It is setting up a conspiracy theory devoid of substance and evidence.

The little theatre’s purpose is to diminish the public perception of damning evidence about the allegedly corrupt Wilson.

The even more important outcome from this purpose of the little theatre is the hosing-down of troubling allegations at the royal commission from credible witnesses ”” such as retired builder Athol James and former AWU archivist Wayne Hem ”” about wads of cash handed over by Wilson for his then girlfriend, Gillard.

The slush fund she had helped establish by giving legal advice for Wilson generated a lot of cash that went in many directions. It was his only source of extra dough.


----------



## Julia (14 June 2014)

noco said:


> Why doesn't the RCR ask or seek Gillards bank statements where they can see deposits and withdrawals?....That will then bring out the truth.



If someone is receiving dirty money, is it really likely they will place it in a bank account which will provide a forever record?
For that matter, are banks actually able to produce such records going back more than two decades, should the person in question decline to do so?


----------



## bellenuit (15 June 2014)

Julia said:


> If someone is receiving dirty money, is it really likely they will place it in a bank account which will provide a forever record?
> For that matter, are banks actually able to produce such records going back more than two decades, should the person in question decline to do so?




In general I would agree with your first point, Julia. However, one of the witnesses claimed that he was given $5,000 (I think) by Wilson and an account number written on a piece of paper which he was told was Gillard's account number and was asked to deposit the money in it. The witness (I can't recall who it was without looking it up) said that he regrets not keeping the piece of paper or noting the account number. Even though Gillard and Wilson would have known the source of these funds as dirty money, perhaps they were lax in depositing in to Julia's account because it was just a record of a deposit with no record of the source, other than it being cash. At that time I am sure they would have had no idea that she would go on to be PM and such matters would be the subject of an enquiry decades later.

I am not sure the answer to the second question. I would assume that if there were such records, it would already be in the hands of the Victorian police, who are also investigating those same matters.


----------



## Calliope (15 June 2014)

Richard Marr on The Insiders this morning gave his opinion that the charges against Julia Gillard will come to nothing. I am inclined to agree with him, but it has nothing to do with her guilt or innocence.

The Labor/Greens took every opportunity to denigrate Abbott and rubbish his achievements on his very successful overseas trip. These attacks are counter productive, not only to those making them, but to overseas perceptions to Australian politics.

Now we come to the dilemma where a woman, who was widely known in the Labor/Union movement as being party to setting up a protection racket to benefit a few, was embraced by her party to replace PM Rudd.

There have been many indiscretions committed by Prime Ministers where disclosure by the media would have put them in a bad light with the electorate but there have been no criminal charges.

Whatever the Royal Commission's finding on Gillard, I  think that the Coalition will be putting our international reputation ahead of punishing Gillard. I don't think we will see Gillard facing criminal charges in Court.


----------



## banco (15 June 2014)

Calliope said:


> Richard Marr on The Insiders this morning gave his opinion that the charges against Julia Gillard will come to nothing. I am inclined to agree with him, but it has nothing to do with her guilt or innocence.
> 
> The Labor/Greens took every opportunity to denigrate Abbott and rubbish his achievements on his very successful overseas trip. These attacks are counter productive, not only to those making them, but to overseas perceptions to Australian politics.
> 
> ...




You make it sound like the coalition has any say as to whether she'll face criminal charges.


----------



## SirRumpole (15 June 2014)

banco said:


> You make it sound like the coalition has any say as to whether she'll face criminal charges.




I think it's pretty obvious to most of us that there is no point flogging a dead horse (Gillard), the real object now is to try and embarrass Shorten and as many ex union leaders in Parliament as they can.


----------



## noco (16 June 2014)

More dirty linen is coming out of the closet....Mr. Shorten gets another mention....maybe this it is the tip of the iceberg.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...ate-inquiry-told/story-e6frg6nf-1226955984488


----------



## Knobby22 (17 June 2014)

Shorten made a donation, can you expand noco. Not sure where you are coming from.


----------



## Julia (17 June 2014)

Knobby22 said:


> Shorten made a donation, can you expand noco. Not sure where you are coming from.



Knobby, it's just as it says in the article (and as the ABC reported yesterday), i.e. Mr Shorten made a $5000 donation to his own 'side' and to the 'other side', as I understand the allegation.

I don't quite know how that's different from a business making donations to both Labor and the Coalition, but apparently it says something odd/nefarious/exciting about Mr Shorten.

Presumably more will unfold, much to the delectation of what passes for the media.


----------



## Knobby22 (17 June 2014)

Thanks Julia. I thought I had missed something important.


----------



## trainspotter (17 June 2014)

The idea that a Union has this much money with no accountability and to be caught in flagrante delicto but deny any wrong doing beggars belief. 



> Ms Jackson’s allegations of corruption helped put HSU NSW General Secretary Michael Williamson behind bars and expose Labor MP Craig Thomson’s misuse of union funds to pay for pr0n and prostitutes.
> But Counsel assisting the Commission, Jeremy Stoljar, has said new allegations had come out in recent weeks that Ms Jackson had misused union funds including *paying $1 million off two personal credit cards* between 2000 and 2011 with members’ money and had involvement in a slush fund.




http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw...ntitlement-money/story-fnii5s3x-1226957557950


----------



## noco (19 June 2014)

trainspotter said:


> The idea that a Union has this much money with no accountability and to be caught in flagrante delicto but deny any wrong doing beggars belief.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw...ntitlement-money/story-fnii5s3x-1226957557950





And it is obvious our fearless Labor leader may have some questions to answer.......but of course we will hear the parrots repeat....."INNOCENT UNTIL PROVED GUILTY" and very little from the ABC and Fairfax....if it had been Abbott, they would have been all over it like a rash.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...commission-hears/story-fnii5s41-1226959237578


----------



## DB008 (8 July 2014)




----------



## drsmith (8 July 2014)

I hope he doesn't get an invite to a building site to witness a concrete pour.


----------



## noco (16 July 2014)

These union thugs never stop......I have observed their tactics since the early 1950's and it is a Fabian Society (communism ) plot to ruin the economy of a country with demands for higher wages and conditions which makes us all suffer somewhere along the line with the cost of living.

In the 50s' and 60's unions, influenced by the communist movement, created havoc in industry to the point  whereby today we are no longer competitive with oversea manufacturers  resulting is massive job loses.......Do the unions care?...I think not. 

Then these stupid Fabians complain to the current Government...."WHERE ARE THE JOBS COMING FROM"?

South Australia have lost their car industry and are about to lose their ship building all because of union demands....They then turn around and complain that the current Government is not doing enough to protect the workers and in turn expect Government subsidies to keep them afloat.

And where does most of that extortion money go?....Yes you guessed it....back into the Labor Party coffers.

Is it any wonder we are now in the state we find ourselves in? 

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...iness-harassment/story-fnkdypbm-1226990176022


----------



## sydboy007 (16 July 2014)

noco said:


> These union thugs never stop......I have observed their tactics since the early 1950's and it is a Fabian Society (communism ) plot to ruin the economy of a country with demands for higher wages and conditions which makes us all suffer somewhere along the line with the cost of living.
> 
> In the 50s' and 60's unions, influenced by the communist movement, created havoc in industry to the point  whereby today we are no longer competitive with oversea manufacturers  resulting is massive job loses.......Do the unions care?...I think not.
> 
> ...




Obviously the relatively non unionised FIRE sector and their fee gouging of superannuation and financial products in general is somehow OK since it's not a fabian society plot to destroy the economy, just big banks getting a couple of notches in credit agency ratings for free, which further encourages them to gear up and borrow as much from overseas as they can because the profits are privatised and any losses will likely get significantly covered by a Government bailout.


----------



## noco (16 July 2014)

sydboy007 said:


> Obviously the relatively non unionised FIRE sector and their fee gouging of superannuation and financial products in general is somehow OK since it's not a fabian society plot to destroy the economy, just big banks getting a couple of notches in credit agency ratings for free, which further encourages them to gear up and borrow as much from overseas as they can because the profits are privatised and any losses will likely get significantly covered by a Government bailout.




Syd, no need to worry for now.

If the Fabians ever get into Government again, all that will be taken care of when the Fabians nationalize all the banks.


----------



## Macquack (16 July 2014)

noco said:


> Syd, no need to worry for now.
> 
> If the Fabians ever get into Government again, all that will be taken care of when the Fabians *nationalize all the banks*.




Australia was a better country when the Commonwealth (common wealth) Bank was owned by the people.
Back then the Comm Bank kept the other bastards honest. Now the Comm Bank is just another highway robber.

Lets get this straight, the *banking industry produces absolutely nothing tangible whatsoever for society*.


----------



## Julia (16 July 2014)

Macquack said:


> Lets get this straight, the *banking industry produces absolutely nothing tangible whatsoever for society*.



That is your opinion.  Others will disagree.


----------



## noco (16 July 2014)

Macquack said:


> Australia was a better country when the Commonwealth (common wealth) Bank was owned by the people.
> Back then the Comm Bank kept the other bastards honest. Now the Comm Bank is just another highway robber.
> 
> Lets get this straight, the *banking industry produces absolutely nothing tangible whatsoever for society*.




And who sold the Commonwealth bank?


----------



## sydboy007 (16 July 2014)

noco said:


> Syd, no need to worry for now.
> 
> If the Fabians ever get into Government again, all that will be taken care of when the Fabians nationalize all the banks.




Considering the banks were insolvent during the GFC and bailed out practically for free they bloody well should have been nationalised at least partially for allowing themselves to get into that situation.  Shareholders certainly should have been punished in the hopes they'd stop their boards allowing that kind of crap from occurring again.  Way too much risky short term borrowing from foreigners.  But no, they get to suck from the public teat pretty much for free, too big to fail, under capitalised, allowed to hold far less capital on their mortgage books that other jurisdictions allow.


----------



## Julia (16 July 2014)

sydboy007 said:


> Considering the banks were insolvent during the GFC and bailed out practically for free they bloody well should have been nationalised at least partially for allowing themselves to get into that situation.




Could you please provide a link demonstrating this 'insolvency'.  And the banks paid the government substantial fees for the guarantee which, as I understand it, was not because of any actual issue with the banks, but rather to provide public confidence in the face of a global credit squeeze at the time.


----------



## Calliope (16 July 2014)

sydboy007 said:


> Considering the banks were insolvent during the GFC and bailed out practically for free they bloody well should have been nationalised at least partially for allowing themselves to get into that situation.  Shareholders certainly should have been punished in the hopes they'd stop their boards allowing that kind of crap from occurring again.  Way too much risky short term borrowing from foreigners.  But no, they get to suck from the public teat pretty much for free, too big to fail, under capitalised, allowed to hold far less capital on their mortgage books that other jurisdictions allow.




I guess only you, syd, could turn a thread on union corruption into a thread on bank bashing. It's obvious you hate the banks more than corrupt unionists. Why don't you start a thread on bank bashing?


----------



## bellenuit (17 July 2014)

Macquack said:


> Lets get this straight, the *banking industry produces absolutely nothing tangible whatsoever for society*.



Banking is a services industry not a manufacturing industry.

As a services industry these are some of the tangible services it provides.......

Loans to business to set up, continue operations or expand.
A secure place to keep ones monetary assets albeit at a low interest rate.
Access to your fund virtually anywhere on the planet from a hole in the wall.
These are 3 invaluable serves that it provides and one could go on for hours.


----------



## sydboy007 (17 July 2014)

Julia said:


> Could you please provide a link demonstrating this 'insolvency'.  And the banks paid the government substantial fees for the guarantee which, as I understand it, was not because of any actual issue with the banks, but rather to provide public confidence in the face of a global credit squeeze at the time.




http://www.theguardian.com/world/in...rudd-statement-royal-commission-full-document

Rudd recalled the fateful post-Lehman weekend meeting of the Strategic Budget and Planning Committee of Cabinet:

_“Cabinet was informed that unless the Government moved immediately to provide a Government guarantee for every Australian’s bank account, there was a real prospect of a run on the banks, as had occurred abroad.”

“*We were also advised that the Government also needed to provide a guarantee for the inter-bank lending requirements of Australia’s private banks because global credit markets had already frozen.*”_

The second sentence is the most key as it pretty much defines insolvency ie the banks were unable to meet their current liabilities.  It was just as much poor management as poor luck that this occurred.

The bank guarantees were another issue, and yet the Govt did make a tidy profit from providing them, but definitely nowhere near the level they should have when taking into account the value of what was provided to the banks.  The arguments it would have made interest rates higher doesn't really wash because at the end of the day those who benefit most from the Governments actions, especially when it's benefiting a private company and it's shareholders, should pay.  The ratings agencies have publicly acknowledged that the banks get a 2 notch rise in ratings because of the assumed Govt support during a crisis.  So far they're getting that guarantee for free.


----------



## Julia (17 July 2014)

You can't seriously expect the banks to hold sufficient cash to pay out every customer should a run on the banks occur.   

This is just getting into the realm of the totally ridiculous.

 It's one thing the then government got right when they moved quickly to reassure people nervous because they were starting to equate the state of our banks with those dodgy entities on the other side of the world.


----------



## waza1960 (17 July 2014)

:topic  but I am guessing that is Syds tactic anything but talking about Union corruption


----------



## sydboy007 (17 July 2014)

Julia said:


> You can't seriously expect the banks to hold sufficient cash to pay out every customer should a run on the banks occur.
> 
> This is just getting into the realm of the totally ridiculous.
> 
> It's one thing the then government got right when they moved quickly to reassure people nervous because they were starting to equate the state of our banks with those dodgy entities on the other side of the world.




You're combining 2 separate issues

The potential bank run by depositors was handled appropriately, though the guarantee should have some cost involved.

The fact the banks had way too much of their foreign loans on very short terms, and the fact they had something like 60% of their funding foreign sourced is what I have issue with.  It was great for the banks in terms of their profitability, not so good for tax payers in the event it had gone really pear shaped.  It was this dash for profits that left the banks technically insolvent.  It did not require a run on the banks, just a freezing of international markets for what was really a modest amount of time.



waza1960 said:


> :topic  but I am guessing that is Syds tactic anything but talking about Union corruption




I'd prefer a royal commission into corporate and union corruption.  Leave it very broad ranging.  There's plenty out there, the CBA scandal has shown just how entrenched it is in the financial sector.  Surely you and noco can't believe corruption is only a union thing?

I'm just trying to highlight the inconsistency with the current focus on unions.  It's ideologically driven and more about trying to damage Labor than cleaning up things.  Still, I think the Liberals will get the odd nasty surprise when some of the company's are forced to acknowledge there less than forced deals with the unions.  I just hope at the end of it all the cost of public infrastructure will be at a more affordable level.


----------



## Julia (17 July 2014)

waza1960 said:


> :topic  but I am guessing that is Syds tactic anything but talking about Union corruption







sydboy007 said:


> The potential bank run by depositors was handled appropriately, though the guarantee should have some cost involved.



It did, for god's sake.  The banks paid the government substantial fees re the guarantee.


----------



## sydboy007 (18 July 2014)

Julia said:


> It did, for god's sake.  The banks paid the government substantial fees re the guarantee.




Obviously you've forgotten about the deposit guarantee.

The deposit guarantee was FREE for up to $1M then $250K.  The banks / depositors still pay nothing for this.  Int he USA there's a fee involved to be part of the FDIC.  Banks highlight the fact they are Govt guaranteed to give them a competitive advantage over non FDIC institutions.  We should have a similar set up here, otherwise the tax payers are on the hook for hundreds of billions in deposit guarantees and get pretty much nothing for the risk that's be taken on hour behalf.

The guarantee for the banks new borrowings was billed for, and the Govt made a tidy profit on this.  The below table shows the rates the Govt was charging for the WHOLESALE short and long term debt maturities.  The obvious bias to the gang of 4 is one reason why they're practically building societies these days.

http://www.guaranteescheme.gov.au/

_Separate arrangements will continue to apply for deposit balances totalling up to and including $1 million per customer per institution and changing to $250,000 from 1 February 2012. *Such deposits are guaranteed without charge.*_


----------



## waza1960 (18 July 2014)

> I'd prefer a royal commission into corporate and union corruption. Leave it very broad ranging. There's plenty out there, the CBA scandal has shown just how entrenched it is in the financial sector. Surely you and noco can't believe corruption is only a union thing?




  Of course I don't believe that corruption is only entrenched within the unions. *I hate all corruption*.
  Broad ranging is not what Royal Commissions are about they are commissioned to look at specific issues.
  Syd this is not a tit for tat scenario. 
 I would be quite happy for another Royal Commission to look into banks and or corporate governance however
 as has being stated before at least companies have some oversite by boards and share holders.
  Unions have being a law unto themselves.


> It's ideologically driven and more about trying to damage Labor than cleaning up things.



  Another Bull****t statement from left wingers.
   Decent Labor people and union officials have being asking for action to clean up union corruption for years
   with no results. Of course there is an ideological element  to this but labor had 6 years to get their house in order.
  Why didn't Labor tackle corporate corruption or bank governance ?
  Oh wait I can answer that maybe those in Glass houses don't throw stones.


----------



## Calliope (18 July 2014)

sydboy007 said:


> ideologically driven and more about trying to damage Labor than cleaning up things. .




If it exposes the link between corrupt union officials and corrupt Labor politicians, that is a bonus. I know you find it hard to live with that, being ideologically driven. Whether it can actually clean them up is doubtful. Unions like the CFMEU and AWU are a law unto themselves and are abetted by FWA which is mainly composed of ex-union officials.

The Labor/Unions/FWA triumvirate is well entrenched and will be a hard nut to crack, and you obviously think your glass-house is bullet proof.


----------



## Julia (18 July 2014)

sydboy007 said:


> Obviously you've forgotten about the deposit guarantee.
> 
> The deposit guarantee was FREE for up to $1M then $250K.  The banks / depositors still pay nothing for this.



Syd, there was no charge to depositors, of course.
But, unless you can show differently, the banks paid the government a fee for providing that government guarantee.


----------



## sydboy007 (18 July 2014)

Calliope said:


> If it exposes the link between corrupt union officials and corrupt Labor politicians, that is a bonus. I know you find it hard to live with that, being ideologically driven. Whether it can actually clean them up is doubtful. Unions like the CFMEU and AWU are a law unto themselves and are abetted by FWA which is mainly composed of ex-union officials.
> 
> The Labor/Unions/FWA triumvirate is well entrenched and will be a hard nut to crack, and you obviously think your glass-house is bullet proof.




There's plenty of corruption going on in the economy.  It just seems silly to focus on a small segment of the economy, unions, when we're now getting more and more evidence to see just how broad ranging it's pernicious effects are in the economy.

I have no problem with investigating union corruption.  I do have an issue with the current set up that is ignoring the far more costly forms of corruption that have been going on.

If the CBA is able to use the "just a few bad apples" defence and the Govt says "Jolly good.  Please move along people, there's nothing to see here" then how is that in any way showing an even hand against corruption?


----------



## Calliope (18 July 2014)

sydboy007 said:


> If the CBA is able to use the "just a few bad apples" defence and the Govt says "Jolly good.  Please move along people, there's nothing to see here" then how is that in any way showing an even hand against corruption?




Good point, and that is exactly how the Labor movement, including yourself, seeks to excuse union corruption.

I think the Commission should broaden it's scope to include Gillard's creation to protect union corruption and stacked it with unionists and gave it the "in yer face" title of Fair Work Australia.


----------



## sydboy007 (18 July 2014)

Julia said:


> Syd, there was no charge to depositors, of course.
> But, unless you can show differently, the banks paid the government a fee for providing that government guarantee.




Sigh.

Debts for the banks that was to depositors was guaranteed for FREE.  So a large majority of 40% of bank liabilities was guaranteed with no charge to either depositors or the banks - all balances up to $1M.  Plenty of balance splitting going on to ensure people got their free guarantee.  If you can show this is not the case I'll be happy to stand corrected.  There should have been a charge for this, there should be a charge for this now as the deposit guarantee has been made perpetual for balances under $250K.  Most other countries that have a deposit guarantee system make the banks / depositors pay for this.

Future borrowings could be guaranteed for a fee if the bank chose to take up the Govt's offer.  As Mclovin said, the  amount of debt they paid to have covered was such a small percent of the total amount of debt that the Govt had ended up guaranteeing, it was practically free - roughly fee paying on $127B of newly issued debt.  It probably cost the banks a few basis points in profit to get what would have amounted to well over 150 basis points in interest rate reductions at the peak of the crisis, and they continued to take advantage of the scheme until the premium slipped below 70 bps for the gang of 4.  At least tax payers will make roughly $5.5B on that.  

As to the potential insolvency of the banks - The banks told Rudd that without the government guarantee "they would be insolvent sooner rather than later", recounted Ross Garnaut and David Llewellyn-Smith in their book The Great Crash of 2008 - note this wasn't about the deposit guarantee to stop a run on the banks.

Anywho, I'll let the union bashing continue while the FIRE sector gets away with dodgy advise and pimping geared property to  SMSFs and costs te economy far more than unions are likely ever too.


----------



## sydboy007 (18 July 2014)

Calliope said:


> Good point, and that is exactly how the Labor movement, including yourself, seeks to excuse union corruption.
> 
> I think the Commission should broaden it's scope to include Gillard's creation to protect union corruption and stacked it with unionists and gave it the "in yer face" title of Fair Work Australia.




I don't seek to condone it.  Face the full weight of the law, but apply it evenly.  Why are unions targeted when insider trading, corrupted financial advise, is sometimes met with a fine, and seemingly never with criminal charges and jail time?  Why did John Gay get a 50K fine when he was able to sell $3M in gunns stock that was soon to become worthless?  Why are some of the dodgy financial advisors in the CBA still working for them?  It's like stealing millions with a smiling face and a few signed pages for informed consent is OK, or at least not worthy of a royal commission when the signed documents were forged and loads of documents lost aka shredded.

Am I wrong to feel that this Govt is so blinkered it can only see corruption with unions and they believe it's not occurring or not that bad in other sections of the economy?

Let me put it to you - do you believe at least CBA, and preferably the whole fiancial services sector, should face a royal commission, with whistle blower protection provided to anyone who can provide evidence to illegal activities within the industry?  I believe this would have a more profound effect on the economy, considering how large the FIRE sector is in terms of GDP, than what will be provided by the union royal commission.


----------



## Calliope (18 July 2014)

sydboy007 said:


> Let me put it to you - do you believe at least CBA, and preferably the whole fiancial services sector, should face a royal commission, with whistle blower protection provided to anyone who can provide evidence to illegal activities within the industry?  I believe this would have a more profound effect on the economy, considering how large the FIRE sector is in terms of GDP, than what will be provided by the union royal commission.




Okay, I'll throw in the CBA if you throw in Fair Work Australia. Any organisation set up by Gillard has to be high on the list of the usual suspects when investigating corruption.


----------



## sydboy007 (18 July 2014)

Calliope said:


> Okay, I'll throw in the CBA if you throw in Fair Work Australia. Any organisation set up by Gillard has to be high on the list of the usual suspects when investigating corruption.




Evidence?


----------



## Calliope (18 July 2014)

sydboy007 said:


> Evidence?




I doubt that any evidence could convince a hard-wired Labor/Green/PUP private enterprise hater like you.


----------



## noco (3 August 2014)

How the wheels turn in these corrupt unions and the Labor Party....taking from the poor and giving to the rich union hacks....time to stop the rot but then there will be less money going into Labor's coffers so there is no chance of Labor doing anything about it.

Now don't come back about dodgy corporate operations.....they are getting caught as well through the ACCC and they are penalized with both heavy fines and jail as you well know. .......Just that you don't hear too much about it.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...nd-how-to-fix-it/story-fnkdypbm-1227010571055


----------



## noco (4 August 2014)

The CFMEU is well in the sights of the Royal Commission and I can see their wings are about to be clipped.

Their stand over tactics and bullying is rife....is it any wonder the cost of building is on the increase and then the Unions and Labor scream from the roof tops about affordable housing...Why isn't the Government doing more????

Yes the Government is now doing plenty.....scraping the Green/Labor red and green tape and bringing the militant unions to heel.

And of course we will see the unions and Labor throwing tantrums like spoilt school children.....Grrrr this is just a Liberal Party witch hunt...so be it...suck it up and enjoy the ride.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-behaviour-claim/story-fnihsrf2-1227012143724


----------



## noco (5 August 2014)

What a grubby lot they are.......there days are numbered....perhaps after this RC, business will be able to get on with business without the fear of intimidation and stand over tactics by these thugs.


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-by-albert-smith/story-fnihsrf2-1227013337423


----------



## noco (5 August 2014)

I hope these thugs are convicted of extortion and jailed for their crimes.

No wonder the Green/Labor left wing socialist did not want the Royal Commission to proceed.

Shorten must be shaking in his boots..



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...tortion-campaign/story-fn59noo3-1227013443049


----------



## noco (16 August 2014)

More evidence of how the maritime union thugs carry out their business in an attempt to ruin the economy of Australia....They carry out the tuition of the Fabian Society to the letter.

It is to be trusted, the court throws the book at them. 



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...claim-by-chevron/story-fn59noo3-1227026096688

*“In recent times the union has shown no restraint in holding a critical part of our economy to *ransom in pursuit of inflated wage increases, allowances, benefits and schemes to control business operations.”*


----------



## bellenuit (28 August 2014)

*Royal Commission calls Julia Gillard*

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...039326535?nk=fe7a59b66cb746fafb565012b9b23806

_*AWU ‘slush fund’ in spotlight as royal commission calls Julia Gillard*

THE royal commission into union corruption is calling Julia Gillard and a serving Federal Court judge, her former boss at law firm Slater & Gordon, to give evidence about allegations of fraud in the AWU slush fund scandal.

The commission, headed by retired High Court judge Dyson Heydon QC, has advised lawyers for the former prime minister and judge Bernard Murphy that they will be questioned under oath.

Other witnesses asked to provide statements and give evidence include one of Ms Gillard’s best friends, Robyn McCleod, senior solicitor John Cain junior, Queensland millionaire coal*miner and marina owner Paul Darrouzet, former AWU Victoria boss Bob Smith, and former heads of building company Thiess.

The hearings will occur over three days from September 9 when the anti-graft probe returns to its investigation of a union slush fund, which was established with legal advice from Ms Gillard to her then boyfriend, allegedly corrupt Australian Workers Union boss Bruce Wilson.

Justice Murphy headed the industrial unit at Slater & Gordon until he and Ms Gillard left the firm in 1995 amid a breakdown in trust among the firm’s partners over the discovery of the fund and a public controversy over another matter. The fund, called the AWU Workplace Reform Association, received large sums of money from Thiess in the 1990s. Shortly before she left the firm as a salaried partner, Slater & Gordon’s then boss, Peter Gordon, conducted an internal probe into the fund amid concerns that Mr Wilson, whose union was a significant client of the firm, had used it in a large fraud.

The AWU Workplace Reform Association registration documents that went to the West Australian government claimed its role was work safety and training.

During the confidential internal probe, Ms Gillard told Mr Gordon in a tape-recorded interview in 1995 that the association was really a “slush fund” for union elections. Hundreds of thousands of dollars were paid by Thiess into the slush fund.

Ms Gillard has vehemently denied wrongdoing, saying she had no knowledge of the operations of the fund. Mr Wilson has also denied wrongdoing.

In June this year, several witnesses at the royal commission ”” former AWU staff member Wayne Hem, former AWU official Ralph Blew*itt and retired builder Athol James ”” testified that Mr Wilson was behind the payment of thousands of dollars to Ms Gillard, including for the costs of renovating her home in inner Melbourne. Ms Gillard has emphatically and repeatedly declared since 2012 that she paid for her renovations.

An ongoing Victoria Police Fraud Squad investigation, which has executed search warrants at the law firm, the AWU’s offices and other venues, has been sharing some of its evidence with the royal commission.

The decision to call Justice Murphy, a solicitor who was appointed to the Federal Court by Ms Gillard’s then attorney-general, Robert McClelland, will surprise many lawyers as it is rare for senior serving judges to be called to a royal commission.

Ms McCleod, who recently left her South Australian government-appointed role of Water Commissioner, is understood to have been asked to provide evidence about her knowledge of a separate Victorian slush fund controlled by Mr Wilson.

It is understood that Mr Cain, the Victorian government’s former top solicitor, will be asked about his role as a lawyer at the firm, Maurice Blackburn, in 1995 when he was involved in helping Mr Wilson repay tens of thousands of dollars to other companies, including Woodside, which had poured money into accounts tied to a Victorian slush fund. This action came after Slater & Gordon had sacked Mr Wilson as a client at around the time Ms Gillard and Mr Murphy departed.

Ms Gillard has previously said that nobody at Slater & Gordon was aware of her work in helping establish the AWU Workplace Reform Association slush fund, and Justice Murphy is likely to be questioned about this. Ms Gillard’s legal work for the slush fund was not apparent because she did not open a file at the firm.

The Australian understands that Mr Darrouzet, who was a human resources head at Thiess in the 1990s, will be questioned about his knowledge of payments Thiess made to the Victorian slush fund, and the relationships between Ms McCleod and the building company. Bob Smith is expected to give evidence about the concerns within the union at the time Mr Wilson’s secret accounts were discovered and the actions taken at the time by himself, former AWU national head Ian Cambridge, now a Fair Work commissioner, and the AWU’s former head, Bill Ludwig._


----------



## SirRumpole (28 August 2014)

bellenuit said:


> *Royal Commission calls Julia Gillard*




I'd like to have the popcorn concession at the RC that day


----------



## noco (28 August 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> I'd like to have the popcorn concession at the RC that day





It will be lies, lies and more lies.

Sargent Schultz ......"I KNOW NOTHIIIIIIING.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (28 August 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> I'd like to have the popcorn concession at the RC that day




I have been close to our betters, and to our worst. and our betters are worst, and our worst reasonable.

Julia will have her team to protect her.

Let us hope a smart QC can blow all the confabulation out of the water.

This RC is a good advertisement for a Federal ICAC.

gg


----------



## SirRumpole (28 August 2014)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> This RC is a good advertisement for a Federal ICAC.
> 
> gg




I completely agree, but I think Abbott is too cagey to fall for the Greiner manouvre. Best hope is if Uncle Clive uses a Federal ICAC as a bargaining chip for something he wants.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (28 August 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> I completely agree, but I think Abbott is too cagey to fall for the Greiner manouvre. Best hope is if Uncle Clive uses a Federal ICAC as a bargaining chip for something he wants.




Knowing Clive, mate, that is the last thing he would want.

He might have a light shone on an organ he has not viewed for many years.

gg


----------



## noco (30 August 2014)

There appears to be no love lost between Kathy Jackson, Bill Shorten and Stephen Conroy....All up to their eyeballs in corruption.

*Facing serious allegations against her over misusing HSU members’ funds, Ms Jackson yesterday claimed Bill Shorten had been part of a “corrupt little gang” trying to target her.

Ms Jackson, who exposed corruption by jailed HSU fraudster Michael Williamson, described Mr Shorten and Victorian Labor senator Stephen Conroy as “sharks” and “vultures” who were circling her union and others in *attempts to gain factional control of the ALP.

*

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...to-help-with-hsu/story-e6frgczx-1227041841061


----------



## SirRumpole (30 August 2014)

noco said:


> There appears to be no love lost between Kathy Jackson, Bill Shorten and Stephen Conroy....All up to their eyeballs in corruption.
> 
> *Facing serious allegations against her over misusing HSU members’ funds, Ms Jackson yesterday claimed Bill Shorten had been part of a “corrupt little gang” trying to target her.
> 
> ...




Considering the revelations about Ms Jackson so far, maybe she was being targetted for being corrupt herself.


----------



## noco (30 August 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> Considering the revelations about Ms Jackson so far, maybe she was being targetted for being corrupt herself.





Yes, she was certainly up to her eyes balls in corruption.......but she was also heroic in being a whistle blower at her own expense.


----------



## dutchie (10 September 2014)

Watch Juliar do her Sergeant Schultz act here:

http://www.tradeunionroyalcommission.gov.au/Pages/default.aspx


----------



## noco (10 September 2014)

dutchie said:


> Watch Juliar do her Sergeant Schultz act here:
> 
> http://www.tradeunionroyalcommission.gov.au/Pages/default.aspx
> 
> ...




I hope they have a lie detector on hand for Julia.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...lush-fund-finale/story-e6frg6zo-1227053188670


----------



## Tisme (10 September 2014)

Union thuggery in the construction industry pales in comparison to what many of the builders behave like. The bar was set many years ago by both ends of the argument, it's primitive, it's sometimes barbaric, is a bastion of bullying and base behaviours and no one cares because it's sport and at times very lucrative to investors, associations and officials.  

The fair thing to do would be to drag the whole lot into a court and charge the guilty with corporate theft, collusion, criminal thuggery, malfeasance, abuse of public office, etc but it wont happen so long as ex politicians, lawyers and the old school tie are part an parcel of the money chain.


----------



## SirRumpole (10 September 2014)

Julia Gillard looked a bit shaky at times at the RC, but unless someone else comes up with evidence that she or Wilson on her behalf misspent union funds, then nothing is likely to happen.

It's mostly all been thrashed out before, and I couldn't see anything new that has come out today regarding Gillard.


----------



## Craton (10 September 2014)

Only saw a brief snippet of Gillard at the RC on ABC24 today. Geez, I'd like to go on holiday and return home to find my bathroom being refurbed without my knowledge too Jules.

As I said I didn't get to see the whole gist of it but she seemed to be none the wiser that the refurb was going to happen. Seems weird to me.

@Tisme 







> ...but it wont happen so long as ex politicians, lawyers and the old school tie are part an parcel of the money chain.




So agree with that. The old not what you know but who!


----------



## IFocus (10 September 2014)

I think its really important to have this royal commission into possible tens of thousands of corrupt behaviour and tarnish an opposite political party's names for the good of all Australians. 

Its perfectly OK that 10s of millions of corrupt dollars goes pass / ripped off every day Australians every day by fund mangers, property developers, construction mangers,  spurkers of every colour etc.

I think Tony is doing a great job.


----------



## sptrawler (10 September 2014)

IFocus said:


> Its perfectly OK that 10s of millions of corrupt dollars goes pass / ripped off every day Australians every day by fund mangers, property developers, construction mangers,  spurkers of every colour etc.
> .




I suppose the issue is, the above mentioned don't own and operate a political party as the unions do.


----------



## sydboy007 (11 September 2014)

sptrawler said:


> I suppose the issue is, the above mentioned don't own and operate a political party as the unions do.




Hmmm.  All those dodgy donations for the Liberals  funnelled through how many different ways to avoid disclosing who'd made them or laws banning developer contributions?  The CEO of brickworks hoping to get his pic with Tony just like he did with Johnny.

Big business may not be quite as openly supportive of the Liberals as unions are with Labor, but they certainly throw plenty of money to them, along with money to the various "think tanks" that all seem to come up with the same conclusions that wages are too high, labour laws too restrictive, regulations too restrictive, corporate taxes too high.  If only those impediments could be removed that would unleash the trickle down effect of multi million dollar CEO pay to benefit the rest of the economy.

What do they expect to get from their fees paid for the Free Enterprise Foundation?  What does exclusive access to various members of parliament get you as a wealthy business person?


----------



## SirRumpole (11 September 2014)

> What do they expect to get from their fees paid for the Free Enterprise Foundation? What does exclusive access to various members of parliament get you as a wealthy business person?




Probably it gets you a freeze on your superannuation contributions for your employees for 10 years or the fact that if you happen to be a financial adviser you don't have to act in the interests of your clients.


----------



## Tisme (11 September 2014)

sptrawler said:


> I suppose the issue is, the above mentioned don't own and operate a political party as the unions do.




I will admit I am not on best terms with some (usually foreign accented) union reps, but I do take umbrage at individuals talking about unions as some kind of monolithic evil thingy. Those unions are people who probably live in your street, pay taxes, spend about half an hour each day filing down their horns, flossing their cloven hoofs and baby powdering their satanic red skins...


----------



## noco (11 September 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> Probably it gets you a freeze on your superannuation contributions for your employees for 10 years or the fact that if you happen to be a financial adviser you don't have to act in the interests of your clients.




Get real you  blokes......this about the Royal Commission into union corruption.....what has the superannuation, employees and the Government got to do with this thread..

You just can't resist diversion.


----------



## SirRumpole (11 September 2014)

noco said:


> Get real you  blokes......this about the Royal Commission into union corruption.....what has the superannuation, employees and the Government got to do with this thread..
> 
> You just can't resist diversion.




Are you the thought police or something ?


----------



## noco (11 September 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> Are you the thought police or something ?




I am trying to help Joe....He is quite silent on the matter but I am sure he would be having some thoughts about it all... 

Joe, I hope you don't mind me pulling these blokes into line


----------



## Joe Blow (11 September 2014)

noco said:


> Joe, I hope you don't mind me pulling these blokes into line




Just keep it civil and constructive gents (and ladies), that's all I ask. I don't care what people debate, as long as they argue the point and not sling mud. I would ask everyone to avoid making things personal and focus the discussion on the issue(s) at hand.

ASF is a great community, let's all do our best to keep it that way!


----------



## noco (11 September 2014)

Joe Blow said:


> Just keep it civil and constructive gents (and ladies), that's all I ask. I don't care what people debate, as long as they argue the point and not sling mud. I would ask everyone to avoid making things personal and focus the discussion on the issue(s) at hand.
> 
> ASF is a great community, let's all do our best to keep it that way!




Yes Joe I agree...there are some who get personal when you don't agree with them or their ideology.


----------



## IFocus (11 September 2014)

Grubby I think is the term


Julia Gillard: surely the union corruption saga must now move on without her



> The former prime minister spent a day under oath over her involvement in the ‘slush fund scandal’. And nothing new emerged
> 
> Her long day in the witness box also revealed no proof, or new evidence, that any money from the fund had paid for any part of her somewhat chaotic 1995 home renovations, something she once again categorically denied.




http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...surely-union-corruption-saga-must-now-move-on


----------



## IFocus (11 September 2014)

Emptiness of the Gillard accusations laid bare



> As Julia Gillard gave evidence at the union Royal Commission the emptiness of what had been a bitterly contested political campaign, and from there an accusatory media culture war, was laid bare, writes Jonathan Green.
> 
> At last, "Juliar" was under oath.
> 
> ...






> *And as Gillard's evidence began, questioned in a dogged, almost soporific parsing of the detail by counsel assisting, Jeremy Stoljar SC, the emptiness of what had been a bitterly contested political campaign and from there an accusatory media culture war, was laid bare.
> *





http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-11/green-emptiness-of-gillard-accusations-laid-bare/5735618


----------



## SirRumpole (11 September 2014)

noco said:


> Yes Joe I agree...there are some who get personal when you don't agree with them or their ideology.




Keeping it civil noco, I agree with your last statement.


----------



## noco (11 September 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> Keeping it civil noco, I agree with your last statement.




Thanks for the compliment old mate.


----------



## bellenuit (11 September 2014)

Although Gillard's appearance turned out to be a non event in relation to something new being revealed, does any one know what the implications are of lying to a RC. The Vic Police investigation is ongoing and if they produce evidence that proves Gillard lied to the RC are there implications to that beyond what civil or criminal penalties might be imposed by the Victorian Courts?


----------



## Julia (11 September 2014)

bellenuit said:


> Although Gillard's appearance turned out to be a non event in relation to something new being revealed, does any one know what the implications are of lying to a RC. The Vic Police investigation is ongoing and if they produce evidence that proves Gillard lied to the RC are there implications to that beyond what civil or criminal penalties might be imposed by the Victorian Courts?



I'd also be interested in an answer to this.  That is not to assert that Ms Gillard is lying.  We simply don't know at this stage.


----------



## drsmith (11 September 2014)

On the basis of what was asked and how it was answered at the RC yesterday, JG's clearly off the hook. 

In relation to broader union corruption, that's obviously a different story and in particular for Bruce Wilson and Ralph Blewitt. 

At the very least, the Victorian police investigation will get the latter two (Question about Ralph being beyond reach through being out of the country).

The question in relation to Julia Gillard (in relation to the RC) is whether evidence was held back to demonstrate contradictions in her testimony. In my view, tt's more likely that it wasn't. Cash payments leave little hard evidence.

The Australian's National Chief Correspondent and long time follower of this, Hedley Thomas.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...apter/story-fng5kxvh-1227054610867#mm-premium


----------



## SirRumpole (12 September 2014)

Julia said:


> I'd also be interested in an answer to this.  That is not to assert that Ms Gillard is lying.  We simply don't know at this stage.




I would assume that as she was under oath, lying to a RC would amount to perjury for which she could be prosecuted.


----------



## IFocus (12 September 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> I would assume that as she was under oath, lying to a RC would amount to perjury for which she could be prosecuted.





In relation to Gillard given a number of smoking guns had to back tracked on their evidence once they had to give it on oath at a RC the whole thing has been revealed for what its is, a shocking display of political power using the judiciary process to attack an political opponent.................oh thats right Abbotts been here before hasn't he.


----------



## Tisme (12 September 2014)

It's not only an abuse of public office, it's disgrace. Tony Abbott &Coy should hang their heads in shame for the gutter politics they have concocted, fermented and sold to the sophomoric public as a cure all tonic of a phantom disease.


----------



## Knobby22 (12 September 2014)

Did you know that there was an award of $200,000 for anyone having any information that would lead to JG being prosecuted? It comes from a political grouping associated with the Liberal Party.

It has been going for a while which is why some lies have surfaced previously. The press can't publish it as they will be sued but it is well known in political and media circles.


----------



## SirRumpole (12 September 2014)

Knobby22 said:


> Did you know that there was an award of $200,000 for anyone having any information that would lead to JG being prosecuted? It comes from a political grouping associated with the Liberal Party.
> 
> It has been going for a while which is why some lies have surfaced previously. The press can't publish it as they will be sued but it is well known in political and media circles.




I don't know why they would bother. Gillard is gone politically and the Coalition have little to gain by such a prosecution.

But considering what they did to Pauline Hanson, I wouldn't put it past the rat bags.


----------



## sydboy007 (12 September 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> I don't know why they would bother. Gillard is gone politically and the Coalition have little to gain by such a prosecution.
> 
> But considering what they did to Pauline Hanson, I wouldn't put it past the rat bags.




And Tony never had to face teh consequences of his likely illegal actions.  Far more evidence of an Abbott slush fund to target Pauline than there is re Gillard.

I'd always wished Gillard had stood up and said to Tony "There are some things the public has no particular right to know."  Been very interesting to see how he reacted to his own words thrown back at him.


----------



## Tisme (12 September 2014)

Knobby22 said:


> Did you know that there was an award of $200,000 for anyone having any information that would lead to JG being prosecuted? It comes from a political grouping associated with the Liberal Party.
> 
> It has been going for a while which is why some lies have surfaced previously. The press can't publish it as they will be sued but it is well known in political and media circles.




You referring to Bruce Wilson’s story he was offered $200,000 to make up a yarn?


----------



## Knobby22 (12 September 2014)

Tisme said:


> You referring to Bruce Wilson’s story he was offered $200,000 to make up a yarn?




No. it's available to anyone. Could be he same crowd as the price matches.


----------



## noco (13 September 2014)

IFocus said:


> Grubby I think is the term
> 
> 
> Julia Gillard: surely the union corruption saga must now move on without her
> ...




Some of the journos, some of Gillard's supporters and many in the Labor Party believe it is all over and we should move on...think again......it is not over by a long shot...she may have given evidence at the RC and as to whether her statement is true or false may still yet to be determined by the police.   

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...illards-evidence/story-fnkdypbm-1227057019946


----------



## sydboy007 (15 September 2014)

http://www.smh.com.au/business/mini...hton-bribery-allegations-20140914-10gpgt.html

Doesn't sound like the unions were forcing management to make these kind of illegal deals.

They'll likely receive a slap on the wrist akin to what John Gay received on his sale of a few million in gunns shares just before they tanked.


----------



## noco (16 September 2014)

sydboy007 said:


> http://www.smh.com.au/business/mini...hton-bribery-allegations-20140914-10gpgt.html
> 
> Doesn't sound like the unions were forcing management to make these kind of illegal deals.
> 
> They'll likely receive a slap on the wrist akin to what John Gay received on his sale of a few million in gunns shares just before they tanked.




Rumpy, what is the connection with this link and the title of this thread?


Lets talk about Bill Shorten and his link with the AWU...now that is more in keeping with this thread...What do you think?

It can't be true can it.....or is it a media beat up on our fearless opposition leader.

Read the link below.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...wu-training-fund/story-fn59noo3-1227059540622

And here is a lot more to digest about Mr. Shorten...he is being cut off at the ankles and will perhaps be a few inches shorter than he already is...Miss Gillards name is also mentioned.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...|heading|homepage|homepage&itmt=1410823265252

Please read the comments attached to this link.


----------



## drsmith (16 September 2014)

Whether its illegal donations from property developers or union standover tactics, these commissions shed light on the dark corners of our political culture.

That offers the potential for improvement and is therefore in my view, a good thing.


----------



## Julia (16 September 2014)

There are anomalies in the rules.  Apparently donations by property developers is illegal just in NSW, not federally, and I'm not sure about other States.

Then if it's not OK for developers to donate, why is it OK for eg wind farm and similar green groups to donate to the Greens, and the unions to Labor?


----------



## SirRumpole (16 September 2014)

Julia said:


> Then if it's not OK for developers to donate, why is it OK for eg wind farm and similar green groups to donate to the Greens, and the unions to Labor?




Absolutely. There is one answer to this mess, and I believe I've said what it is.


----------



## noco (20 September 2014)

noco said:


> Rumpy, what is the connection with this link and the title of this thread?
> 
> 
> Lets talk about Bill Shorten and his link with the AWU...now that is more in keeping with this thread...What do you think?
> ...




And here is some more to digest about Mr Shorten and his mushroom deal.....he has dirt and grubs on his hands.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...064538045?sv=1025d460d62d538a4be9f044b6265d98


----------



## Smurf1976 (20 September 2014)

Julia said:


> Then if it's not OK for developers to donate, why is it OK for eg wind farm and similar green groups to donate to the Greens, and the unions to Labor?




Agreed. 

Given all the difficulties with fairness and administration, the only truly fair process I can see is to allocate each candidate at an election an equal amount of funding at taxpayers' expense. If someone wishes to donate, they'd be donating to the democratic process as such with the additional funds made available to each and every candidate.

Would be difficult to administer though given that there's so many "backdoor" ways of donating. Eg if you ran a sign manufacturing company then you could just make free "vote 1" signs for your preferred candidate but not for anyone else. Or if you run a business then you give them free office space and access to company resources. Very hard to enforce in practice unless there's a regulated process for how a campaign itself is conducted.


----------



## Calliope (2 October 2014)




----------



## drsmith (2 October 2014)

With the sloping forehead, big nose and receding chin, the cartoonist as gone to the effort of making the one on the right actually look Neanderthal.

They had on average though bigger brains than us.


----------



## noco (31 October 2014)

It is not before time police have decided to crack down on these CMFEU thugs....They have got away with it for too long.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...-union-criminals/story-fni0fee2-1227107776175


----------



## Tisme (31 October 2014)

noco said:


> It is not before time police have decided to crack down on these CMFEU thugs....They have got away with it for too long.
> 
> 
> http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...-union-criminals/story-fni0fee2-1227107776175




Yeah and the sun will rise in the west tomorrow. Anyone who has been in the construction industry knows the bullying, lying, etc is not the singular domain of the union reps, workers or builder. 

I have mentioned before that so long as the power brokers who make and administer our laws dabble in developments for profit and fame, nothing will change the draconian methods of intimidating workers and them pushing back via their unions.


----------



## IFocus (31 October 2014)

noco said:


> It is not before time police have decided to crack down on these CMFEU thugs....They have got away with it for too long.
> 
> 
> http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...-union-criminals/story-fni0fee2-1227107776175




Strange its taken until now to happen.........oh hang on when is that election?

Still long over due don't think there will be to many tears just a shame its the result of overt politics and that nothing will happen to the dodgy contractor company's on the other side that scam millions.


----------



## drsmith (1 November 2014)

Julia Gillard's back in the news,



> Julia Gillard's conduct as a lawyer was "questionable" and evidence in the Royal Commission into unions "supports a finding" that she received money from her allegedly corrupt former boyfriend Bruce Wilson, counsel assisting the inquiry has said.
> 
> Counsel Assisting, Jeremy Stoljar, in an overview of submissions to the inquiry, recommends Mr Wilson and his sidekick, Ralph Blewitt, should be charged for a "sham" slush fund they ran in the 1990s that's "sole purpose" was to "receive money fraudulently" from builder Thiess.
> 
> Ms Gillard, the former prime minister, should not be charged for her role in providing legal advice in setting up the slush fund, Mr Stoljar said.




http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...-be-charged-counsel-says-20141031-11f68s.html


----------



## Macquack (1 November 2014)

drsmith said:


> Julia Gillard's back in the news,
> 
> *Ms Gillard, the former prime minister,should not be charged* for her role in providing legal advice in setting up the slush fund, Mr Stoljar said.






> Mr Stoljar said while *Ms Gillard did not commit any crime *and was not aware of the criminality  of Mr Blewitt and Mr Wilson...




Read this and weep Michael Smith, drsmith, Noco, sptrawler,Big Dog and co.

You can put away your fire starters and stakes.


----------



## drsmith (2 November 2014)

A bit of selective quoting above,



> Mr Stoljar said while Ms Gillard did not commit any crime and was not aware of the criminality  of Mr Blewitt and Mr Wilson "some aspects of her professional conduct as a solicitor appear questionable". He said if she had a more "rigorous approach" to her task "it might have been more difficult for Mr Wilson and Mr Blewitt to have behaved as they did."




It was also concluded she got the money.


----------



## Tisme (2 November 2014)

drsmith said:


> A bit of selective quoting above,
> 
> 
> 
> It was also concluded she got the money.




Must have been done legally if she did. Reasonableness was obviously in court that day and once again the nasty little men who tried to implicate her should crawl under a bush and eat roots. This erosion of the "honourable" members is attacking the pillars of our political system. Enough of the mock indignation ...we all know it a sham and sadly there are citizens among us who are celebrating the pleasure they derive from seeing the pursuit of innocents.


----------



## Julia (2 November 2014)

Julia Gillard as an 'innocent'?   Really?


----------



## drsmith (2 November 2014)

Julia said:


> Julia Gillard as an 'innocent'?   Really?



But she was just a little girl, barely out of Law firm senior partner school.


----------



## drsmith (2 November 2014)

Tisme said:


> Must have been done legally if she did.



Would you have accepted money from the brown paper bag in Bruce Wilson's hand, sexism card in hand or otherwise ?

The problem is the lack of evidence. The tracks in the end were too well covered.


----------



## Tisme (3 November 2014)

Julia said:


> Julia Gillard as an 'innocent'?   Really?




Well yes, the presumption is enshrined in law, although abused by mean spirited types.

Do you have any first hand information to the contrary and have you presented it as a concerned citizen? 

Please don't tell us you are forming opinions based on LNP propaganda and News Corp.... 

I'd defend Tony Abbott if the same disgraceful pursuits were aimed at him.


----------



## SirRumpole (3 November 2014)

As far as Julia Gillard is concerned, everone is young and naive at some time in their lives.

Gillard was a solicitor, and it was her job not to do anything illegal, and the RC cannot prove that she did, so she is off the hook, end of story.

The RC seems set to catch a lot nastier people, both in the unions and construction industry bosses. If it brings such people to light it will be worth the expense, even if it was a political stunt to start with.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-03/is-recruits-sharrouf-elomar-shooing-party-george-alex/5860814


----------



## Calliope (3 November 2014)

Julia said:


> Julia Gillard as an 'innocent'?   Really?




I think she lost her innocence long before she teamed up with Wilson, who Tisme also apparently presumes to be an innocent.




> in·no·cence  (n-sns)
> n.
> 1. The state, quality, or virtue of being innocent, as:
> a. Freedom from sin, moral wrong, or guilt through lack of knowledge of evil.
> ...



http://www.thefreedictionary.com/innocence


----------



## bellenuit (3 November 2014)

Tisme said:


> Do you have any first hand information to the contrary and have you presented it as a concerned citizen?




I understand that the Victoria Police have a lot of evidence in relation to the slush fund set up and related matters. Their investigation is independent of the RC, started a long time before the RC and hopefully will conclude in the not too distant future. 

Evidence has been given to them that suggests Gillard falsely claimed to witness Blewitt's signature being signed on a Power of Attorney document that was used to purchase a house in Melbourne by Wilson on Blewitt's behalf using slush fund money. There are also suggestions that Gillard misrepresented the slush fund company in documentation submitted to the WA Government body when it was being set up.

One interesting point that I heard on Sky yesterday. Though Wilson has defended Gillard when testifying to the RC, if, as is expected, criminal charges are brought against him, he may alter his stance in relation to certain claims made when he is in the witness box if the consequence of sticking by Gillard and taking the full rap himself becomes apparent.


----------



## Tisme (3 November 2014)

Calliope said:


> I think she lost her innocence long before she teamed up with Wilson, who Tisme also apparently presumes to be an innocent.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Fairness is one of those rare blessings I possess ...thanks for the compliment


----------



## Tisme (3 November 2014)

Calliope said:


> I think she lost her innocence long before she teamed up with Wilson, who Tisme also apparently presumes to be an innocent.




I don't know about Wilson's guilt ... has he been convicted?

Fairness is one of those rare blessings I possess ...thanks for the compliment


----------



## noco (20 December 2014)

Gillard only gets a rap over the knuckles......but she did lie about the payment of renovations to her house which was paid for her by then boy friend, Bruce Wilson



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...-owed-an-apology/story-fn59noo3-1227162242823


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## noco (28 February 2015)

The CFMEU thugs are at it again with some 52 complaints in Queensland alone...Most likely during the previous governments reign.....These thugs should be given a jail sentence...One union thug threw one workers lunch on the floor because he was not in the union...What a cad.


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...m-building-sites/story-fnn8dlfs-1227242131284

*Two separate cases that have landed Queensland officials in the courts recently involved a unionist who hurled non-union workers’ sandwiches on the ground over an argument about who could use the site’s lunch shed; and a spat in which workers only agreed to return to work on the proviso they would not acknowledge their safety manager in conversation.*


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## drsmith (28 February 2015)

Someone got a little carried away at a recent MUA meeting in WA,

https://news.google.com/news/story?...JPcGYSxmAXQ24H4BA&sqi=2&pjf=1&ved=0CCUQqgIwAA


----------



## Tisme (28 February 2015)

drsmith said:


> Someone got a little carried away at a recent MUA meeting in WA,
> 
> https://news.google.com/news/story?...JPcGYSxmAXQ24H4BA&sqi=2&pjf=1&ved=0CCUQqgIwAA





Bad day or thug, it's not the union bosses who should apologise, but the individual. Hopefully the journo calls for police action against him. You don't destroy the forest trying to eradicate lantana, you eliminate the lantana, unless of course you are a developer who doesn't like bush over profit.


----------



## Ferret (13 March 2015)

Shock, horror! CFMEU members on Barrow Island had to sleep on blow-up mattresses as they sheltered while cyclone Olwyn passed.  

How will they ever get over it!


http://www.weatherzone.com.au/news/...nd-over-treatment-during-cyclone-olwyn/257442


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## noco (25 April 2015)

Palszczuk is associating herself with these unions thugs and criminals which will eventually blow up in her face...Even some of her "L" plate cabinet ministers appear horrified.
The unions have wrecked the manufacturing industry and they are now going out of their way to wreck the building industry.
It is absolute hogwash that the unions want access to sites for work place health and safety reasons...We have government authorities who are trained in work place health and safety and they have been proven to be affective.
The unions should bugger off and stop interfering.


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...protecting-cfmeu/story-fnihsr9v-1227319357767
*
Even certain Cabinet ministers will whisper to you that they know it is the wrong thing to do. Tragically, Annastacia Palaszczuk probably knows it is the wrong thing to do.

OPINION: How CFMEU milked the workers and gave it to the ALP

OPINION: Union shame file embarrasses Palaszczuk

But Labor will do it anyway in the full knowledge that the Royal Commission into Union Governance and Corruption found evidence of serious wrongdoing by the CFMEU in this state and around the nation.

The union stands accused of everything from intimidation to blackmail and extortion.

Is it not unreasonable to conclude, therefore, that the Labor Government is inviting Queenslanders to once again be intimidated, blackmailed and extorted?

To invite unions back on to building sites is lunacy.

Yet Treasurer Curtis Pitt gave me a statement confirming CFMEU walk-in powers would be restored.

“We’ll rescind the 24-hour notice period in line with our election commitment to restore stronger workplace health and safety standards across Queensland,” he* said.


----------



## noco (28 April 2015)

The ETU loans the NSW ALP $500,000 with no record in the minutes.......All so dodgy and most likely Palaszczuk knew all about it as well..



https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/27415435/off-to-shrink-for-raising-union-questions/


----------



## sydboy007 (29 April 2015)

noco said:


> The ETU loans the NSW ALP $500,000 with no record in the minutes.......All so dodgy and most likely Palaszczuk knew all about it as well..
> 
> 
> 
> https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/27415435/off-to-shrink-for-raising-union-questions/




Have you been asking Joe and his backers in Sydney about the North Shore Forum and what the various membership levels get in return for their up to $22,000 annual membership fees?  The top level is called Private Patrons.  

Paul Nicolaou, resigned from the Millennium Forum last year after ICAC heard allegations it and another entity, the Free Enterprise Foundation, were used to disguise payments from prohibited donors including property donors to bankroll the Liberal Party's campaign to win the 2011 NSW election.

Do you see union corruption as worse that political corruption?  If so why?  If not why do you only regularly voice concern over one but not the other?


----------



## noco (29 April 2015)

sydboy007 said:


> Have you been asking Joe and his backers in Sydney about the North Shore Forum and what the various membership levels get in return for their up to $22,000 annual membership fees?  The top level is called Private Patrons.
> 
> Paul Nicolaou, resigned from the Millennium Forum last year after ICAC heard allegations it and another entity, the Free Enterprise Foundation, were used to disguise payments from prohibited donors including property donors to bankroll the Liberal Party's campaign to win the 2011 NSW election.
> 
> Do you see union corruption as worse that political corruption?  If so why?  If not why do you only regularly voice concern over one but not the other?




Hmmm....A bit off the beaten track old fellow.....this thread is about the* Royal Commission into union corruption.*

I would be more interested in your comments on the dodgy $500,000 loan to the NSW Labor Party by the ETU.....Were union members advised?...And why was it not in the minutes of the meeting.

Perhaps you should start a new thread on the* North shore Forum* and see where it leads.


----------



## noco (2 May 2015)

More evidence of the CFMEU is in control of the Palaszczuk Labor government in Queensland,

Palaszczuk is continuing to associate herself with these thugs and it will eventually be her undoing.

As I have commented before and although a bit off the track, the Queensland and Victorian Labor governments will be Tony Abbott's best asset should he call an early election.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...szczuks-comrades/story-fnihsr9v-1227330653045


----------



## noco (4 June 2015)

Bill Shorten is suspect to rorting when Secretary of the AWU 1998/2006.....The unions are not interested in the welfare of workers...Their only interest is how much they can rip off both employers and employees.

Shorten will probably do a Gillard......I was young and naive.....can't recall.....can't remember....I don't know what she said but I will agree with her what ever it was. 


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...royal-commission/story-fni0fit3-1227381040142


----------



## noco (5 June 2015)

noco said:


> Bill Shorten is suspect to rorting when Secretary of the AWU 1998/2006.....The unions are not interested in the welfare of workers...Their only interest is how much they can rip off both employers and employees.
> 
> Shorten will probably do a Gillard......I was young and naive.....can't recall.....can't remember....I don't know what she said but I will agree with her what ever it was.
> 
> ...




Sargent Schultz ( Bill Shorten).....I know nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...383785438?sv=e9b1177f10bc0da64feb39938b3c8dcc

*Yesterday the commission heard fresh claims that Mr Shorten’s former union, led at the time by his political and industrial ally Cesar Melhem, doctored invoices to help conceal the fact that $225,000 was used to bolster memberships and the AWU’s influence on Labor’s conference.*

*Phantom members; dodgy deals with companies; flexing muscle inside the Labor Party: this is the trade union movement in the 21st century. What’s more, these are the nefarious activities of the union Bill Shorten once led and used as a springboard into parliament.

The revelations at the trade union royal commission this week about the Australian Workers Union are a reminder of the corrosive influence of unions in workplaces and in politics. They show that union leaders such as Cesar Melhem, who succeeded Mr Shorten as AWU state secretary and is now a Victorian Labor MP, too often put their own interests ahead of those of their members. The scandal enveloping the AWU, now reaching inside the Victorian government, is one the labour movement can ill afford with membership continuing to plummet.*


----------



## noco (5 June 2015)

There is no doubt our Billy boy is digging a hole for himself.

I guess  the lefties will harp on the old ploy..."Innocence until proven guilty". 


http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...ments/shorten_must_explain_these_dodgy_deals/


----------



## noco (6 June 2015)

And the Green/Labor left wing socialists rave on about fairness when it comes to the Coalition's budget.

Grace Collier exposes the unfairness with the unions and the ABC lets it go through to the keeper.

The Fabians control the media and keep the truth from the naive.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...the-power-of-one/story-fnkdypbm-1227385267980

*In the beginning, the commission examined those who were accused of stealing pennies from the mob. Now, the focus has finally shifted. The commission is uncovering how the mob gets its money, who gives it the money, what they get in return and how that money and a list of names can be used to exert control over our democracy.

The business operations of the mob are being revealed as immoral and counter to ALP values. They make a sick joke of the fairness mantra and remove the moral right of people in the ALP to rant about the evil of Work Choices. The Coalition team is beyond frustrated with the lack of media attention on the commission and all it is uncovering but, mostly, we will talk about only what the Prime Minister and his crew talk about.

If they talk about tampons, house prices and other such drivel, then we will too. Further, the Coalition team cannot expect us to try to tear down the most powerful and vengeful people in our society while it just sits back and watch.*

Here with is a comment from one reader and many others as well.

Juliet
1 hour ago

*No matter what degree of filth is exposed, the Labor Party will continue enjoying huge election-winning support from so many voters who stupidly believe the royal commission is some kind of irrelevant stunt.  Like sheep, they will follow the same propaganda that sustains the unionist wrongdoers and their footmen in our parliaments.  Ways must be found to reach, touch and persuade these unthinking electors.  It is a shame that advertising boffins Wil Anderson, Russel Howcroft and Todd Sampson (of ABC's Gruen Transfer) can't be persuaded to turn their minds to this challenge for the sake of their country.  Then, perhaps the useful idiots posing as journalists would take an interest.*


----------



## dutchie (18 June 2015)

Unions look after workers - bull sh#t!


----------



## noco (18 June 2015)

dutchie said:


> Unions look after workers - bull sh#t!




Here is the hard evidence.......How in the hell Shorten can get in front of the cameras and say he always had the workers best interest at heart...The only interest Shorten had was in himself....He says he would debate Tony Abbott on who has done more for workers...Bring it on Bill.  

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...orkers-worse-off/story-fnkdypbm-1227403012642

*Employees were required to work up to 12 hours a shift unless it was an “emergency”, whereby under “mutual agreement” they could work longer. These shift lengths excluded meal breaks, which were all unpaid, and meal breaks could be forfeited by *“mutual agreement”. Employees could be rostered to work 13 days straight, after which time they must have a break of one day or more. Workers were guaranteed four days off in a 28-day period.

Employees were required, without notice, to undertake *duties across other work streams, including those lower than their own. This means a supervisor could be directed to clean toilets or stack chairs.

The hourly rates of pay, all flat rates, included “a loading for hours worked in excess of 12 hours per day, for hours in excess of 38 hours per week, 76 per fortnight or 152 per 28-day period, as well as hours worked on Saturdays, Sundays and public holidays. Wages for full-time employees include a loading of 1.3 per cent in lieu of payment of a 17.5 per cent annual leave loading” and “all penalty payments except” for a loading of 25 per cent (time and a quarter) for work between “1am and 6am for hours worked only during that *period”.

Workers were required to wait for their pay cheques, as they were paid once a fortnight on a Wednesday, for all work undertaken up to the previous Sunday. If workers had worked additional hours in one fortnight, they were forced to wait for the second fortnightly payday in the month for payment on those hours, as the first payday of the month was only ever for standard hours (76 for full-time staff and 38 for part-timers). While the trust had an “intention” to supply car parking at no charge, to provide “accessibility and to *encourage employees to be punctual and well groomed”, this could not be relied upon and so workers could “pre-purchase” a car park “at an agreed fee of $5.50 per shift”. However, if the event had “state or national significance or extraordinary circumstances” then no car parking would be available, and the trust bore no liability for any costs incurred to the worker.

Workers who worked between 1am and 6am and commenced work before 5am were given a breakfast meal or paid a meal *allowance of $8.25. If a uniform was required, a uniform allowance of $1.60 per day worked was *payable.

Full-time employees were given 25 annual leave days a year, but each day was only deemed to be 7.6 hours. Ten days of sick leave (again based on 7.6-hour days) were available per year but only after 12 weeks of employment.

In a redundancy situation, *depending on the length of service and the worker’s age, up to five weeks’ notice would be provided, however no redundancy severance pay at all would be payable, unless “government policy” said otherwise.

The following questions were sent to Shorten’s office:

Can you guarantee that this EBA did not leave any workers worse off?

If not, why was it recomm*ended to workers?*


----------



## noco (18 June 2015)

More dirty deals by the Labor Party fearless leader.....He has certainly looked after the workers and pigs might fly.

Abbott is more the workers friend than Shorten will ever be.

Where are the comments from IFocus, Sir Rumpole, Macquack, Tisme, Sydboy007 and Basilio.

Your silence is deafening.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...stions_over_300000_donation_actu_goes_silent/

*Worse and worse for Shorten:

    One of Australia’s biggest builders paid Bill Shorten’s union nearly $300,000 after he struck a workplace deal that cut conditions and saved the company as much as $100 million on a major Melbourne road project.

    A Fairfax Media investigation has uncovered large payments from joint venture builder Thiess John Holland to the Australian Workers Union when Mr Shorten, now opposition leader, ran the union.

    The payments started soon after work began on the $2.5 billion East Link tollway in Melbourne’s eastern suburbs in 2005.

    Fairfax Media understands that, at the time, Thiess John Holland regarded the payment as an acknowledgment of the flexibility of the AWU deal, which was struck by Mr Shorten.

    It’s unclear what the union used the money for. Prime Minister Tony Abbott has previously accused the AWU of running a “business model” whose purpose was “ripping off workers to advance its own political position”.

    The deal was hugely favourable to the builder, allowing it to effectively work around the clock by reducing conditions around rostering and weekend work, helping the project finish five months early....

    The payment was part of more than $1 million of largely unexplained employer cash flowing into the AWU’s Victorian branch between January 2004 and late 2007, when Mr Shorten was either state or federal secretary.

    These include almost $200,000 from cardboard manufacturer Visy industries, which at the time was run by Shorten’s billionaire friend Richard Pratt, almost $100,000 from aluminum giant Alcoa, and $300,000 from chemical giant Huntsman… *


----------



## Caveman (18 June 2015)

noco said:


> Abbott is more the workers friend than Shorten will ever be.
> [/B]



I really doubt this,perhaps Tony Abbott should table his own IR policy since he is so "concerned" about workers rights.


----------



## noco (18 June 2015)

Caveman said:


> I really doubt this,perhaps Tony Abbott should table his own IR policy since he is so "concerned" about workers rights.




Abbott's new budget to help small business has reflected in the unemployment figures.....Labor went in to office with a 4 % unemployment in 2007 and went out of office with  6% + unemployment.

Now that the RC has exposed the corrupt unions, we will no doubt see  a lot more strikes....The unions will be striking to win back the penalty rates Shorten took off the workers......BS did not believe in arbitration...only money for the unions and bugger the workers.


----------



## trainspotter (18 June 2015)

*Mass strikes to hit federal public service: Community and Public Sector Union members to walk off job*



> "The Abbott government has slashed 17,300 public sector jobs since taking office and now it's going after the conditions, rights and take-home wages of 160,000 Australians who work in the public sector.
> 
> "The government will try and say this dispute is all about getting a bigger pay rise, but the reality is all workers face losing of their workplace rights and some are actually facing a pay cut."
> 
> She said Customs officers could lose up to $8000 a year from their take-home pay because allowances were being slashed, while part-timers and casuals in Centrelink and Medicare would get less money for doing the same work.




http://www.canberratimes.com.au/nat...-members-to-walk-off-job-20150617-ghq2gl.html

I am not sure but my reckoning is that this government is going to have it's hands full with this one !


----------



## noco (18 June 2015)

trainspotter said:


> *Mass strikes to hit federal public service: Community and Public Sector Union members to walk off job*
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Labor were going cut back some 20,000 PS ....The PS under Labor is always grossly overloaded.

Don't forget Shorten denied workers of their full entitlement in the Cleanevent case....Lower than normal wages with no penalty rates....Why didn't they strike then?


----------



## noco (22 June 2015)

I trust this case will teach the unions a lesson not to disrupt projects to get what they demand.

Who will bail the CFMEU out?......The Labor Party or the poor old ripped off union members.

But wait, I believe there is more tom with a claim by another company for $28 million.


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...409038435?sv=a19411d0b567e150d46ada2f3efbf4a1

*AUSTRALIA’s biggest construction union is under siege amid a record $3.55m payout, a push for deregistration and damaging allegations including of unlawful conduct at a Brisbane worksite.

The $3.5m payout to Grocon was for a series of damaging blockades of its building sites in several states in 2012.

That payout could be dwarfed by a $28 million compensation fee being sought by Boral, while the ACCC also has its sights on the union over claims of restrictive work practices.*


----------



## Tisme (22 June 2015)

noco said:


> I trust this case will teach the unions a lesson not to disrupt projects to get what they demand.
> 
> Who will bail the CFMEU out?......The Labor Party or the poor old ripped off union members.
> 
> ...




I have had some unsavoury encounters with building union reps. I can't say I would weep if there was a cleanout. But knowing the calibre of the enemy on the other side of the fence I think it's important workers are protected  from the intimidation too, which is why workers unions exist of course.


----------



## Tisme (22 June 2015)

noco said:


> Labor were going cut back some 20,000 PS ....The PS under Labor is always grossly overloaded.




That was an opportunity missed then. I would float the idea of say a 100k cut as a modest start to reigning in the bureaucracy and wages bill. Was it Malcolm Frasier who knocked out 25% of the PS with no appreciable change in service? The thing I wonder at is how entire departments like the engineering side are all but hollow shells yet there are still 160k seat warmers and who knows how many consultants (ex staff).

Then there's the state and local govt servants which means there must be upwards of 2 million people not involved in the private sector, plus the unemployed 1million,  so 3 million of the 12 million potential workers are not adding anything to growth. No wonder 30% of the country is in recession, 25% of the workers aren't contributing,


----------



## noco (8 July 2015)

I get the feeling Bill is not enjoying his grueling from the Royal commission.....The $40,000 donation he took 8 years ago was only declared 144 hours before his appearance today.....the next couple of days will be interesting indeed. 


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...433190446?sv=c5d01eababa2984878dbf113897925ff

*Bill Shorten failed to declare a donation from a labour hire company that funded his campaign director for the 2007 federal election, but denies gaining any personal advantage from the deal, the unions royal commission has heard.

The Labor leader today denied claims he used his position as national secretary of the Australian Workers Union to his own advantage, as he sought to win the Victorian federal seat of Maribyrnong.

The former union boss revealed to the unions inquiry he had only declared a $40,000 donation from labour-hire company Unibilt, made in 2007, on Monday.

“I have discovered there was an incomplete form sent to the ALP head office and ... I take ultimate responsibility for that,” Mr Shorten told the commission.

Liberal frontbencher Sussan Ley - a former AWU member - said unions’ first duty was to workers, not politicians.

and Bill says he always looks after workers to make sure they get better pay and conditions...I don't think so.

The royal commission into union corruption has been contacting key executives connected to *controversial cleaning company Cleanevent to give evidence ahead of today’s appearance of Bill *Shorten.

The Australian can also reveal that the reduction of employee conditions under a 1998 enterprise agreement signed by Mr Shorten’s AWU Victoria and Cleanevent cost 5000-odd workers as much as $400 million, substantially more than previously thought.

The royal commission has in recent weeks contacted former Cleanevent senior executive Steve Hunter to provide evidence, following reports in The Australian detailing serious concerns he had about the relationship between the union and the cleaning group.

Mr Hunter has said the 1998 sweetheart enterprise bargaining agreement left workers far worse off and had been denied to Cleanevent’s rivals, placing them at a disadvantage. He said AWU *Victoria had good reason to be friendly with Cleanevent, given Cleanevent had in place in the late 1990s and early 2000s an unusual arrangement, which artificially bolstered union memberships.

Mr Hunter has said Cleanevent staff were automatically signed up as AWU members on employment, unless they actively ticked a box to opt out. That arrangement meant “up to 90 per cent” of Cleanevent’s workers were union members at the time.

The opt-out agreement is understood to have been changed sometime before 2008, with the commission hearing very few of the company’s 4000-5000 staff were union members at that time.

GRAPHIC: 10 questions for Bill Shorten

Mr Hunter became particularly aggrieved with the sweetheart Cleanevent deal after leaving the firm in 2003 over differences he had with Cleanevent’s founder and then chief executive Craig Lovett. Mr Hunter set up his own cleaning business at that time but despite several years of negotiations, AWU Victoria refused to provide his company an enterprise bargaining agreement similar to Cleanevent’s. “Cleanevent was paying $18 an hour for casuals while we were paying $28-$29 an hour to staff — straight away, you are $10 an hour behind,” Mr Hunter has told The Australian. “With an event like the Big Day Out you’re looking at several thousand hours; it doesn’t take long before you are out of the equation.”

When contacted this week Mr Hunter said he was currently unable to comment on any matters relating to the royal commission.

Cleanevent’s former major shareholder, Melbourne’s wealthy Liberman family, is also understood to have been approached by the commission for information regarding the company.

The Liberman family and Justin Liberman, who was involved with the Cleanevent investment, have declined to comment when contacted by The Australian. In 1998, while Mr Shorten was AWU Victoria state secretary and Cleanevent’s union representative, an EBA was entered, which reversed worker-friendly deals, removing night-shift penalties and weekend loadings.

The deal was highly beneficial for Cleanevent because the bulk of cleaning work was conducted outside office hours, and during weekends, cleaning up after events.

Between 1998 and 2004 the deal saved Cleanevent more than $60m, when adjusting the annual wages bills for the savings arising from the EBA. That was larger than originally estimated given new accounts had surfaced.

Spotless bought Cleanevent in 2011, after beginning negotiations to buy the company in 2009.

Analysis based on wages bills conducted by The Australian, with the aid of industry experts, shows that taking into account the differences to the EBA introduced in 1998 workers were collectively about $420m worse off than they would have been had leave loadings not been removed from the EBA.



.*


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## noco (9 July 2015)

The unions have cost Australia billions in disruptions over the past 70 years going back to the war with Japan, the wharf labour's unions held up urgent supplies to our troops in PNG....Their activities had continued through out the years since and more so in the 1950's and 60's when the unions were dominated by communists and the strikes and disruptions to industry cost Australia $billions.

This of course was, and still is, all a part of the Fabian Society ideology to skin a country economically....Strike for "BETTER WAGES AND CONDITIONS" and one only has to his nous as to how it has affected our manufacturing industry......No more woolen mills......no more knitting mills.....no more vehicles.....no more shoes and clothing factories.....less fruit processing......And all these so called better conditions for workers have cost jobs due to the ever increasing costs......higher wages.....2 weeks annual leave increased to 4 weeks...17.5 5 leave loading shorter working weeks (very few workers now work a 40 hour a week).....Many workers are at work 38 hours and some on 36 hours er week...penalty rates etc. etc.

Then we have some people blame the government for high unemployment and keep asking, "where are the jobs coming from"?....The jobs have gone overseas thanks to the corrupt unions.. 





http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/.../comments/what_is_it_with_unions_and_the_law/


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## noco (9 July 2015)

Bill Shorten did not have a very good today at RC.

34 times he could not recall or could not remember....Commissioner Heyden told Shorten he was not a credible witness and suggested in his own interest that he should answer the questions.

Shorten has become credible "TAP DANCER"........Move over Fred Astaire. 


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...nions-corruption/story-fnii5s41-1227434654945

*Shorten faces campaign donation questions
Shorten faces campaign donation questions

    Shorten “didn’t believe” there was a $300k deal between AWU and Thiess John Holland
    Commissioner warns Shorten to stop evading questions
    Labor leader accused of issuing invoices for non-existent services
    Shorten: “I would never issue bogus invoices”

LABOR leader Bill Shorten has been admonished and his credibility as a witness questioned as he repeatedly avoided answering questions at the royal commission into trade union corruption in Sydney today.

Commissioner Dyson Heydon said he was concerned about Mr Shorten’s credibility as a witness and warned him to give “proper” answers as he faced questions over his deals as union boss.

Mr Shorten was being quizzed over $300,000 in “bogus” payments from building companies that secured union co-operation on the giant Melbourne EastLink project.*

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...|heading|homepage|homepage&itmt=1436431433243


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## noco (9 July 2015)

Bob Hogg believes Shorten should resign....That coming from an ex Labor Stalwart says it all.



http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...ob_hogg_tells_bill_shorten_to_quit_over_gift/

*But Mr Hogg, in an angry open letter to Mr Shorten on social media, wrote: “Dear Bill - is the concept of conflict of interest beyond your understanding?"…

“Really?” he wrote. “His campaign director was paid for by a company whose employees were covered by Bill’s AWU, and therefore, as union members, deserved their interest to be protected to the maximum.

“The payment wasn’t declared until Bill was reminded eight years later: a real lapse of memory, sloppy book-keeping or a hope no-one would notice. Take your pick."…

“Let’s call a halt to defending the indefesible,” Mr Hogg said…

“Bill, do something for the ALP. It’s simple.

“Just go.” *


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## Macquack (9 July 2015)

noco said:


> The unions have cost Australia billions in disruptions over the past 70 years going back to the *war with Japan, the wharf labour's unions held up urgent supplies to our troops in PNG*....




What about the Port Kembla maritime workers who refused to load pig iron bound for the Japanese war machine. Well what do you say to them Noco? 

THANK YOU is the bloody answer.

http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/1911775/gallery-the-day-workers-stood-up-to-pig-iron-bob/


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## Tisme (9 July 2015)

*Re: Noco's Royal Commission into Fabian Union Corruption*

Just mucking around with the topic title to see how it looks


----------



## dutchie (10 July 2015)

Another Union hardhead goes down








http://www.theaustralian.com.au/


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## MrBurns (10 July 2015)

Poor old Billy Liar, what a state politics is in when a creep like that is within a hairs breadth of becoming PM

No big fan of Abbott either but anything's better then the nest of maggots that is the ALP

Costello should come back, or at least give Turnbull a shot.


----------



## nioka (10 July 2015)

Considering that this royal commission was an Abbott set up to discredit the unions and the opposition party, I think Shorten came out of this with some credibility. Id love the libs to be under the same scrutiny regarding their fund raising activities, their connection to underworld heavyweights and their support from the large mining companies, especially those with overseas ownership.


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## MrBurns (10 July 2015)

nioka said:


> Considering that this royal commission was an Abbott set up to discredit the unions and the opposition party, I think Shorten came out of this with some credibility. Id love the libs to be under the same scrutiny regarding their fund raising activities, their connection to underworld heavyweights and their support from the large mining companies, especially those with overseas ownership.




Discredit the Unions and the Opposition ? 
Are you joking ?

Both are run on corruption and lies. 
Doesn't take much to discredit them, they do the job themselves.


----------



## nioka (10 July 2015)

Macquack said:


> What about the Port Kembla maritime workers who refused to load pig iron bound for the Japanese war machine. Well what do you say to them Noco?
> 
> THANK YOU is the bloody answer.
> 
> http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/1911775/gallery-the-day-workers-stood-up-to-pig-iron-bob/




I was around in those days. I believe at the time the dispute was over wages. The fact that it was pig iron for Japan was incidental.
 As a serviceman I was sent to load apples when the wharfies refused to load them for shipment to a hungry British market. Same deal, wages and staffing levels. At the time the crates of apples were loaded in slings and lowered into the hold to be stacked again in the hold. The wharfies would only allow one sling to be used. That meant that the workers on the wharf did nothing while the sling was unloaded in the hold and vice versa.:frown:


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## nioka (10 July 2015)

MrBurns said:


> Discredit the Unions and the Opposition ?
> Are you joking ?
> 
> Both are run on corruption and lies.
> Doesn't take much to discredit them, they do the job themselves.




The courts are there to deal with corruption and I believe did that with the likes of Craig Thompsom.

Parliament has the facility to deal with lies. 

I repeat "The commission was an Abbott tool to try and discredit Shorten". I believe it failed to do just that. In fact because Aussies believe in a fair go that Shorten will benefit and Abbott will lose out over this.


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## MrBurns (10 July 2015)

nioka said:


> The courts are there to deal with corruption and I believe did that with the likes of Craig Thompsom.
> 
> Parliament has the facility to deal with lies.
> 
> I repeat "The commission was an Abbott tool to try and discredit Shorten". I believe it failed to do just that. In fact because Aussies believe in a fair go that Shorten will benefit and Abbott will lose out over this.





I think Shorten is finished, they cant possibly go to an election with him now.


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## nioka (10 July 2015)

MrBurns said:


> I think Shorten is finished, they cant possibly go to an election with him now.




If the libs go with Abbott it will even up the contest.


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## noco (10 July 2015)

nioka said:


> The courts are there to deal with corruption and I believe did that with the likes of Craig Thompsom.
> 
> Parliament has the facility to deal with lies.
> 
> I repeat "The commission was an Abbott tool to try and discredit Shorten". I believe it failed to do just that. In fact because Aussies believe in a fair go that Shorten will benefit and Abbott will lose out over this.





Of course the Labor Party parrots have been brainwashed with the same lines to divert attention from the main issue and if they cannot comprehend the evidence that is coming out of the RC, then they must be running around with blinkers covering their eyes.

The tool was used to stop corruption in the union movement which you cannot deny.....If it drags in the likes of Bill Shorten, Julia Gillard and Kevin Rudd so be it.


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## MrBurns (10 July 2015)

nioka said:


> If the libs go with Abbott it will even up the contest.




I think you're right, but Abbott by a nose if it comes down to that.


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## CanOz (10 July 2015)

nioka said:


> If the libs go with Abbott it will even up the contest.




Lol...too funny!


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## sydboy007 (11 July 2015)

Interesting that it's near the end of the world that Shorten received a staffer paid for by a company.

But when it's shown Amanda Vanstone, after various Liberal party fund raising arms, received large donations from the Madafferi family and eventually allowed him to remain in Australia, it barely rates a mention.  Stop the boats, could be replaced with sometimes keeps criminals as a new Liberal slogan?

It's a national disgrace that federal political donations laws are so lax, and so pathetically enforced.  That's where we need real change.  If unions donating is an issue, then so too would be companies.  Ban both of them, and limit to small amounts what individuals can donate.  I don't have a problem with political parties not being able to run so many adds or put up so many portrait pics around pre election.  Might mean that candidates actually have to get people interested enough by what they say rather than continue down the US path of those who spend the most get the power.

ban the soirees of selling access to Govt ministers on overpriced tea parties.  why should the monied get better political access than the rest of us?

Then start looking at the movement between unions and politics as well as lobby groups and industry organisations and govt.  If it's bad for union officials to migrate direct from a union to politics, then surely the same issues as to why that is bad is also valid for moving between govt and lobby groups?


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## Tisme (11 July 2015)

nioka said:


> Considering that this royal commission was an Abbott set up to discredit the unions and the opposition party, I think Shorten came out of this with some credibility. Id love the libs to be under the same scrutiny regarding their fund raising activities, their connection to underworld heavyweights and their support from the large mining companies, especially those with overseas ownership.




The Labor unwritten policy doesn't allow witch hunts, because it would result in internal funeral pyres. I must admit it would be quite delicious to see the smug grins of those that use our money to pursue smear campaigns in the dock themselves.

I notice heavy hitter Greg Combet is now in the mix. Greg would have been Labor party leader, but for his media appeal. He is not someone to muck around with and the commissioners know it, especially those with mafia connections. There are those in the union movement who make things happen.


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## SirRumpole (11 July 2015)

Personally I don't think Shorten has done anything that other pollies haven't. Like charging the taxpayer for attending a private wedding or for promoting a book. An easy way out is to pay the money back to the company and say "all square". It's the actual rules that need changing, but the current major parties won't do that because it will turn off the rivers of gold.


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## noco (11 July 2015)

The point that is being evaded by some on this Forum is the fact that Bill Shorten at the time, was not a politician  but a union leader.

He, as a union leader did some dodgy deals which were not always in the interest of union members......There were several dummy invoices to companies for "EDUCATION and TRAINING PURPOSES", the companies paid the unions in return for industrial peace......Whether the education and training ever took place is what the RC is trying to establish....In the case of Chicquita Mushrooms, workers were paid a flat rate of $18 an hour irrespective of 7 days a week and in some cases 12 hour days....Chicquita's competitors had to pay $28 per hour......So Chicquita's workers were worse off....The RC commissioner told Shorten he was not a reliable witness because he was evading the question and on one day alone during his interrogation he stated he did not know or could not remember 34 times.......If the RC decide to call witnesses from the 6 companies mentioned, Shorten may have some explaining to do.

Shorten is frightened to say YES or NO in case he commits perjury in which case he could finish up in jail 

Another case which involved Thiess/ Holland for some major road project was where the company paid three invoices at $100,000 each to advertise in the AWU newsletter.....$100,000 of advertising would have given the contractors a 3 or 4 full page supplement in any of the major newspapers.......once again, in this case, money was paid to the unions for industrial peace.

The CFMEU have just been fined $3.5 million and could face more to come......mainly for extortion, stand over tactics and defiance of court orders.

The HSU investigation has certainly opened up a can of worms where union members were robbed of $millions by Craig Thomson and Kathy Jackson....Craig Thomson stood up in parliament and stated he had done anything wrong...Gillard stood by him until he was found out and of course later served his time at HM detention center.

So the brain washed Labor parrots have been given their lines to all say it is an Abbott "WITCH HUNT" in order to take the heat off Shorten.

Ex Labor Party President Bob Hogg says Shorten should just go....Is Hogg right or wrong?

IMHO, the RC is well warranted even though the Labor Party don't like it.


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## sydboy007 (11 July 2015)

noco said:


> The point that is being evaded by some on this Forum is the fact that Bill Shorten at the time, was not a politician  but a union leader.
> 
> He, as a union leader did some dodgy deals which were not always in the interest of union members......There were several dummy invoices to companies for "EDUCATION and TRAINING PURPOSES", the companies paid the unions in return for industrial peace......Whether the education and training ever took place is what the RC is trying to establish....In the case of Chicquita Mushrooms, workers were paid a flat rate of $18 an hour irrespective of 7 days a week and in some cases 12 hour days....Chicquita's competitors had to pay $28 per hour......So Chicquita's workers were worse off....The RC commissioner told Shorten he was not a reliable witness because he was evading the question and on one day alone during his interrogation he stated he did not know or could not remember 34 times.......If the RC decide to call witnesses from the 6 companies mentioned, Shorten may have some explaining to do.
> 
> ...




So, who is more at fault.  The briber or the bribee?

You've been very silent over Vandstone and her asylum for donations.  Why bother with a SIV when you can just plonk a small bag of cash in the hands of Liberal fundraisers to get your needs across.

You don't seem worried that the NSW Liberal party has so much common membership with the Minerals council, but anything about a union and the sky is falling.

I get the feeling only those who believe Bolt is an unbiased source of information don't believe the bunch of royal commissions by Abbott are anything but politically motivated.  Are you expecting me to believe that Abbott has done this purely 100% politics free?

Abbott would know a thing about perjury, after lying to the AEC over his Hanson attack slush fund.  He changed his story over that a few times, depending on his audience, just like he was telling WA he believed they should get more GST but then on a plane and telling Tas that there should be no changes to GST distribution.

I'd love the VIC labor Govt to have a royal commission into what went on last year with contracts and negotiations for the worlds most expensive tunnel at $1M / meter.  Release all the correspondence between the Vic and Fed Libs, especially what Abbott was promising and who came up with the idea to do the side deal with the contractors to lock Labor into the economically irresponsible project.

heck, i hope some of the correspondence over the TPP is released by Labor next time they're in power.  Might make people wake up to how badly we've been sold out.


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## noco (11 July 2015)

sydboy007 said:


> So, who is more at fault.  The briber or the bribee?
> 
> You've been very silent over Vandstone and her asylum for donations.  Why bother with a SIV when you can just plonk a small bag of cash in the hands of Liberal fundraisers to get your needs across.
> 
> ...




I am not sure what you are referring to with Amanda Vandstone, but I would have imagined if there was any wrong doing she wwould have been investigated by the AFP.

So what is the big deal with the Liberals involved with the Minerals Council?...Do you have any evidence of wrong doing?

Where does the politics come into it?...Shorten was a union Secretary at the time and not a politician.......If he has done nothing wrong or has nothing to hide, then he should have no worries.

Regarding the Hanson affair, were their any charges laid on Abbott?...To the best of my knowledge, the Labor Party wanted Hanson out of the picture as well.

To have an RC into the Victorian Government...Why not?...I would like to see one....The East/West tunnel would have been at least 2 years in the planning and was favored by a majority.......Dan Andrews stated he would tear up the contract without having to pay any penalty...How wrong he was......It cost the tax payers something like $500 million and the Labor Party is complaining about the government spending $80 billion on the RC into union corruption.......You forget it cost tax payers $11 billion plus for the Rudd/Gillard open boarders and it is still costing the tax payers to this day.....A burden we will have to carry for years to come.

Next time the Green/Labor socialists get into power we will finish up like Greece.

Surprised to see Denis Atkins comments as per link below....Well worth a read.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-in-trade-unions/story-fnihsr9v-1227437342474

*BILL Shorten has had a dreadful week thanks to a royal commission poking into the darker recesses of his trade union past and exposing deals that most workers would dismiss with a cynical assessment of “dodgy”.

However, any damage to shorten is fleeting and doesn’t matter in the great sweep of modern Australian politics. He was never likely to fulfil his dream of becoming prime minister and his contribution to public life is marked more by the dark arts than public policy achievements.

The real losers this week were trade unions – and not for the first time in the 16 months since the letters patent was issued.

Already going backwards in public membership and support, unions have been front and centre at some of the most appalling examples of personal and systemic behaviour where personal gain was greedily advanced and any means were justified by whatever ends were desired.

Two examples of union malfeasance formed the basis of Tony Abbott’s justification for appointing former High Court judge Dyson Heydon to examine the general activity of these registered organisations.

One was tangential to a long-running attack on former Labor prime minister Julia Gillard and her former boyfriend Bruce Wilson, who was a state secretary of the Australian Workers’ Union in the 1990s and seen as a rising star.

Wilson, with union mate Ralph Blewett, established a dodgy fund which was supposedly about workplace safety but turned out to be a source of cash for personal use by officials. The Victorian fraud squad is still investigating this behaviour but there’s been no finding of impropriety against Gillard.

More seriously, the Health Services Union was exposed as rotten from the head down.

Former president Michael Williamson – once the national president of the Labor Party – is in jail serving seven years for defrauding almost $1 million of union funds.
Michael Williamson, disgraced ex-boss of the HSU.

Michael Williamson, disgraced ex-boss of the HSU.

An independent report into the HSU finances concluded $20 million was paid for work without tenders or contracts, including $5 million to companies associated with Williamson and his family.

Craig Thomson, who was national secretary of the union when Williamson was president, is appealing a 12 month sentence for theft of union funds, including expenditure on prostitutes and escorts.

Kathy Jackson, another former HSU official who blew the whistle on Thomson and Williamson, is under investigation for the alleged misappropriation of $1.5 million in union funds – a charge she denies and is challenging.

Another union which has been under the spotlight for allegedly unlawful activity is the Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy Union which has a stranglehold on construction sites in most parts of Australia.
The real losers this week were trade unions.

The real losers this week were trade unions.

Numerous examples of thuggery, threats of violence, intimidation, extortion, racism and sexism have been presented to the royal commission, and the Fair Work Commission has been running a series of, mostly successful, cases in the courts against the CFMEU.

All of this is hurting the trade union movement’s public profile and its membership numbers, with fewer than one in five members of the workforce signed up with an industrial body.*

And the Labor Party have the audacity to say the RC into union corruption is a political witch hunt...It has nothing to do with Politics...If Shorten and Gillard are roped into it, so be it...It all happened before they entered politics.


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## sydboy007 (11 July 2015)

noco said:


> I am not sure what you are referring to with Amanda Vandstone, but I would have imagined if there was any wrong doing she wwould have been investigated by the AFP.
> 
> So what is the big deal with the Liberals involved with the Minerals Council?...Do you have any evidence of wrong doing?
> 
> ...




Ah Ok, so if no charges are laid then what a politican or union member does is fine.

You don't think it's a bit dodgy that a mafiosi gets ministerial access after making donations to liberal fund raisers?  Whether anything improper was done, the optics are not so good, to use the political term.  Just as what Shorten has done, may nor may not be illegal, but also doesn't pass the pub test.

Does it matter if labor wanted Hanson gone.  Abbott broke the law and got away with it.  The fact he suffered no consequences shows the AEC is as dangerous as a piece of wet lettuce, esepcially when they don't even care that Abbott lied to them.  I somehow doubt you'd be so easy about a Labor minister getting away witht he same disregard to the law.

As for Victoria, can you please explain to me why the Liberal state Govt rushed to sign contracts?  When there is an election 3 months away and polling shows it will be a close election, does an incumbent Govt have the right to lock in a potential new Govt to a multibillion dollar infrastructure project?  It would have been like Labor rushing to sign up FTTP NBN contracts for the a major portion of the project to limit any policy change. Labor had a strong stance against the road tunnel.  They were very clear on this.  Didn't they have a mandate from the electorate, due to their large win, to not go ahead with the project?  Was it ethical for the Liberals to sign an undertaking to pay compensation no matter what?  I can't believe you'd be so supportive of a Labor Govt that took such blatantly undemocractic action.

As for us turning into Greece, Abbot has already added $100B to the debt, and counting.  i think he's trying to catch up with the Howard levels of spending.  If only he could be as spend thrift as Labor was post GFC.


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## noco (11 July 2015)

sydboy007 said:


> Ah Ok, so if no charges are laid then what a politican or union member does is fine.
> 
> You don't think it's a bit dodgy that a mafiosi gets ministerial access after making donations to liberal fund raisers?  Whether anything improper was done, the optics are not so good, to use the political term.  Just as what Shorten has done, may nor may not be illegal, but also doesn't pass the pub test.
> 
> ...




The Andrews Government are the first to break protocol whereby incoming governments honored commitments by the out going government...Can you name any commitments by the Labor Party that Abbot has broken.

The $100 billion increase in debt is a carry over from the bad commitments Labor made...The Coalition have tried very hard to curb spending over the past 21 months but, as you cannot deny, have been hampered by the bloody minded Green/Labor socialist Party in the senate who are hell bent on making the current government fail...I should ask you why didn't the Green/Labor party pass the $6 billion in savings they themselves promised before the 2013 election....If that is not bloody minded I don't know what else you could call it....And need I remind you of the ongoing cost of the illegal boat people we have on social security and the ongoing cost of the NBN of which the Labor Party did on the back of an envelope between Rudd and Conroy mid air  without any cost benefit analysis...The Liberal Party did the right thing by continuing the construction albeit in a far more economical way.   

Syd, I think this thread is about a Royal commission into union corruption......perhaps we should keep it on the beaten track and you direct your usual criticism of the Liberal government ( which in your mind is all bad.) to the correct thread.


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## noco (13 July 2015)

Henry Ergas sums up the double standards set by Labor and the unions.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...439141738?sv=a618fcb6c1d35cc8f2e0854d997b4e78

I*t beggars belief that Bill Shorten does not see any conflict of interest between representing his union’s members and receiving undisclosed payments from their employers. That those payments benefited him personally, by helping to finance his political career, only makes his claims all the more implausible.

Under normal circumstances, Shorten’s protestations of innocence would be viewed as betraying a moral vacuum. In reality, they highlight the same cynicism that was on display in Julia *Gillard’s 1995 exit interview at Slater and Gordon.*

*Unfortunately, that double standard is not exceptional; rather, it is at the heart of Labor’s world view. The result is that after denouncing inquiry after inquiry as a witch hunt, Labor has persistently shut its eyes to the covens those inquiries have found, while opposing each and every attempt to bring union misconduct under control. And that was exactly as true of the Hawke and Keating governments as it is of Shorten toda*y.


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## Tisme (13 July 2015)

Three words: Utegate+ Godwin+ Grech 

OH and Noco, on the nonsense that the budget is blowing out because the Abbott Govt is honouring Labor spend, do you not recall repeals of the carbon tax, mining tax, education, etc ... you know the revenue raising side of the ledger that even the conservative pencil pushers say would have stopped the bleed in 2016 as projected by Swan. Instead we are going to kill the debt by having tradies buy $20k secondhand utes that didn't attract GST in the first place and were generally job costed in the second place as a consumable.

By any measure things aren't going well for this govt in the fiscal management, but there's still plenty of life left in attacking the previous govt, helped along by the well publicised pursuit of ALP smoking guns @ LNP stacked royal commissions.


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## Tisme (13 July 2015)

Royal Commission into LNP might be the go.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-...nked-to-senior-australian-politicians/6579076


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## SirRumpole (13 July 2015)

noco said:


> The Andrews Government are the first to break protocol whereby incoming governments honored commitments by the out going government....




I see, so lets say that three months before an election a Labor government signed a contract for 10 wind farms.

 I take it you would object if an incoming Liberal government cancelled them after saying before the election that they thought they shouldn't be built ?


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## trainspotter (13 July 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> I see, so lets say that three months before an election a Labor government signed a contract for 10 wind farms.
> 
> I take it you would object if an incoming Liberal government cancelled them after saying before the election that they thought they shouldn't be built ?




Would never happen. If it is in the budget left by the previous government then the newly ensconced government has to accept the pledge. 10 wind farms don't get signed 3 months out of a state election either. The newly elected government can cut back in their FIRST budget. That's what budgets are for.

Case in point where I live ... 49 million $$$ left in budget for hospital by Liberal. Labor won office and built the hospital and claimed the glory. Liberal jumped up and said it was the $200 million to the region for
redevelopment and upgrading of our schools, transport systems and health services that was in their budget to start with. This was in 2004

This is what we have now ... a pledge to honour the funding commitment.



> Prime Minister Tony Abbott says he is confident that long-awaited funding for upgrades to Geraldton Regional Hospital, in mid-west Western Australia, will be delivered.
> 
> While campaigning for the federal seat of Durack in 2013, the Liberals' Melissa Price made expanding and upgrading the hospital a top priority.
> 
> So far *no funding commitments* have been made for stage two of the hospital, which does not have a mental health unit, despite a high number of patients being admitted with psychiatric disorders.




Labor will come out with their pledges to fund the hospital and buy votes. Labor gets elected. But hospitals take a long time to build. So when the Libs are in next it will be their turn to claim the hollow victory that they have delivered on their promise/pledge as the hospital is now built.

 over ...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-09/pm-offers-geraldton-hospital-upgrade-assurances/6291068


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## noco (14 July 2015)

I laughed my head off when I read this bit.

The good old CMFEU says we found one rotten egg in the union and we tossed him out, inferring but the rest of us are goodies......

I wonder what the RC will find under the rocks....distortion, intimidation, bribery, insults, thuggery, assaults..??????


*Investigate our former worker: CFMEU

    AAP
    July 14, 2015, 3:32 am

Share

The construction union agrees one of its former employees should be investigated by the police, after cash bribery claims were aired at the royal commission.

Three company heads have revealed they were made to pay Canberra CFMEU organiser Halafihi `Fihi' Kivalu thousands of dollars in exchange for securing work in the ACT.

The commission is due to hear more evidence on Tuesday from other businesses in the Canberra construction industry.

The union's general national secretary Dave Noonan distanced himself from Mr Kivalu in the wake of the allegations, insisting he doesn't work for the union anymore.

"The individual concerned should be investigated and dealt with by the police," he told ABC radio.

Mr Noonan has also defended a boycott by the CFMEU's legal team for the first few days of the Canberra hearings, saying they had to spend time getting through large volumes of evidence given to them at short notice.

*


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## noco (14 July 2015)

noco said:


> I laughed my head off when I read this bit.
> 
> The good old CMFEU says we found one rotten egg in the union and we tossed him out, inferring but the rest of us are goodies......
> 
> ...





And here is Judith Sloan's take on the CFMEU.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...part-in-the-game/story-fnbkvnk7-1227440551088

*Last week, we were able to observe a series of dubious side deals between the Australian Workers Union and employers. In some cases, workers clearly came off second best. It would be wrong to think it is only the AWU that engages in secret arrangements. At least the AWU is disinclined to use thuggery and threats of violence to get its way, preferring backroom deal-making and persuasion.

The business model of the CFMEU is slightly different. It is easy skinning the clients by contributing to excess construction costs — in particular, when the project is being funded by the taxpayer. The role of the CFMEU is to make sure the union and its members get what they regard as their fair share of the rent — at least half of the 25 per cent discrepancy above the efficient cost.

The big employers understand the game and create space in their tenders for this extortion. It is generally the small players, the subcontractors, that get burnt if they don’t play by the rules. These rules involve operating under CFMEU-approved enterprise bargaining agreements that match the pay and conditions set by the head contractor and agreeing to closed shops — every worker is a union member, whether or not that worker actually pays the dues.

The CFMEU is perfectly capable of driving smaller operators out of business. It will use bogus occupational health and safety reasons to enter worksites and, in some cases, interrupt time-sensitive work, such as concrete pours.

On the face of it, Canberra may not seem the perfect scene for subversive union activity. In point of fact, the large amount of publicly funded construction and civil engineering work makes it akin to paradise on earth for the CFMEU to pursue its preferred business model, which is to seek protection money from employers to ensure projects can be completed — not necessarily on time or on budget.*


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## noco (15 July 2015)

This week it is being revealed the CFMEU bribed and extorted cash from Concrete Suppliers in return for peace on sites.
The CFMEU also organized fixed prices for concrete which should be investigated by the ACCC....It is called collusive tendering.

How can the lefties say it a political witch hunt when it is about the rotten union movement. 


http://www.couriermail.com.au/busin...-rates-concreter/story-fnn9c0gx-1227443136303


*Business
CFMEU asked for set rates: concreter

    AAP
    July 15, 2015 5:30PM

Share

The head of a concreting company has revealed how builders in the Canberra industry were made to sign a collective agreement which set prices.

Multi-Crete director Clive Arona told the royal commission on Wednesday business heads met with the CFMEU on various occasions in late 2013 and early 2014 to decide on the enterprise bargaining agreement.

It included above-award redundancy pay and set prices for concreting jobs, per cubic and square metre.

Those companies with an EBA were left alone by the union, he said, admitting it was costly to his business but guaranteed a level playing field.

You wouldn't be able to operate in Canberra if you didn't sign one, he added.

"Is it that the builder wants a quiet life, no unwelcome visits from union officials," commissioner Dyson Heydon put it to Mr Arona.

"Yes," the concreter replied.

The witness also detailed to the hearing how he paid $5000 for a Tongan community event, thinking it would improve relations with Halafihi `Fihi' Kivalu, a then CFMEU organiser.

The commission has already heard claims from several business heads who paid Mr Kivalu thousands of dollars in cash envelopes and cheque handovers at McDonald's outlets in order to secure work in Canberra.

Mr Arona backed up a version of events put forward by form-working company owner Elias Taleb, who said on Monday he'd handed over money to Mr Kivalu totalling $135,000.*


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## Tisme (15 July 2015)

noco said:


> How can the lefties say it a political witch hunt when it is about the rotten union movement.




I'd hazard a guess that you are the only "righty" who doesn't think it's a cynical witchhunt


----------



## drsmith (15 July 2015)

noco said:


> How can the lefties say it a political witch hunt when it is about the rotten union movement.



There might be more than a little in common there with that prevention index.


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## noco (15 July 2015)

Tisme said:


> I'd hazard a guess that you are the only "righty" who doesn't think it's a cynical witchhunt




I don't think so.

Just have a look at the many comments on editorials.

*Olwyn
22 hours ago

As an older Australian, I have been privileged to watch all the proceedings of the Royal Commission under the stewardship of Justice Dyson Heydon and Counsel assisting, Jeremy Stoljar the past 18 months.

To hear Shorten and his vocal supporters and leading unionists bleating about the way the hearings are being conducted is laughable, as well as insulting to the educated people of this country who know better.

The Commissioner has an exceptionally smart mind, is courteous to all witnessnes, (even the the disingenuous and flexible with the truth ones) and has displayed to me his innate kindness from the bench.

His concern for the comfort of George Alex for example, when the witness appeared to be in pain.

Whatever the cost of this investigation into the unscrupulous, thieving, rotten to the core unionists who believe thuggery, graft and deception is the Australian way, then it's money well spent to weed the vermin from the honest workers who are tainted with their cancerous ideology.
FlagShare
10RodgerPhilipSusanneAntonioLikeReply
Christine
Christine
21 hours ago

@Olwyn You forgot to mention extortion, intimidation and the threat of physical violence.....all virtues of the current union movement.
FlagShare
2RodgerOlwynLikeReply
MikeT (WA)
MikeT (WA)
22 hours ago

So Mr No One is back in the news - surprised anyone
FlagShare
LikeReply
Mouse
Mouse
22 hours ago

Sorry Noonan, but this commission does appear to be quite balanced, especially in terms of who must ultimately take responsibility for their actions. As to the  "evidentiary ambush and legal blitzkrieg”, it must suck when things come back to bite you on the butt, hey!! Desperate times and all....     LOL  D
FlagShare
6MichaelNevilleChristineChrisLikeReply
pat
pat
23 hours ago

I'd like to know if the ATO is assessing individuals who take monies on the side or from slush funds. You know as they do everyone else including hospitality staff who get paid tips.

Where the monies have not been declared what penalties will be imposed?

Will there be criminal proceeding by the ATO for tax evasion by failing to declare the envelopes?
FlagShare
9RodgerNevilleJasonChristineLikeR*

These are just a few on the top of the list of comments....now read more .


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## moXJO (16 July 2015)

Tisme said:


> I'd hazard a guess that you are the only "righty" who doesn't think it's a cynical witchhunt



This is long overdue. I doubt they will even scratch the festering surface of these dirtbags.


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## Tisme (16 July 2015)

moXJO said:


> This is long overdue. I doubt they will even scratch the festering surface of these dirtbags.




I take it you have intimate knowledge of unions workings and their dealings with employers? I'm not defending unions who are rogue, but I think it's important to have first hand experience before jumping on the hysteria train.

I keep think of that piece of works who set up Craig Thompson via the media, only to find out it was her who was fleecing the accounts to the tune of nearly $1m !!!


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## IFocus (16 July 2015)

I have been really surprised that its really been quite mundane I expected fire works from the CFEMU etc the biggest headline is the slandering of Shorten.

Oh thats right thats whats meant to happen.........


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## noco (16 July 2015)

IFocus said:


> I have been really surprised that its really been quite mundane I expected fire works from the CFEMU etc the biggest headline is the slandering of Shorten.
> 
> Oh thats right thats whats meant to happen.........





Another RED skin bites the dust.

This time from the CFMEU.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/fo...royal-commission/story-fnii5s3y-1227444476333

*A FORMER CFMEU organiser has been arrested at the Royal Commission into Trade Unions after giving evidence this morning.

Halafihi “Fihi” Kivalu allegedly “extorted” more than $150,000 in payments from Canberra tradies in return for access to building sites in the nation’s capital.

Mr Kivalu, who took the stand this morning, admitted to taking $60,000 from a form-worker but claimed it was a “gift” for helping the man find work. He also claimed they were friends

Three phone calls were then played to the Commission where Mr Kivalu angrily demanded money from the form-worker, Elias Taleb before demanding a face-to-face meeting.

The other two were phone calls between Mr Kivalu and his wife where he admitted to committing a crime, raised concerns about going to jail and his wife suggested getting “Russians” and “Lebanese” involved to get the remaining money from Mr Taleb.

Mr Kivalu was put in the back of a police van after a meeting with his lawyers.

No charges have been laid.*


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## moXJO (17 July 2015)

Tisme said:


> I take it you have intimate knowledge of unions workings and their dealings with employers? I'm not defending unions who are rogue, but I think it's important to have first hand experience before jumping on the hysteria train.
> 
> I keep think of that piece of works who set up Craig Thompson via the media, only to find out it was her who was fleecing the accounts to the tune of nearly $1m !!!




Yes I have. And like I said: they will not even scratch the surface. Honestly I don't know how they cover up what they have done and get away with it. The royal commission won't amount to many scalps.
But there are union men that I know and respect. Unions are needed because there are some bad bosses who take advantage in the building industry. The whole lot fail when bad bosses and dodgy union officials get together.


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## Macquack (17 July 2015)

noco said:


> Another RED skin bites the dust.
> 
> This time from the CFMEU.




What is the "RED skin" inference?


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## SirRumpole (17 July 2015)

Macquack said:


> What is the "RED skin" inference?




Commos, all commos comrade. Reds under the bed don't you know


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## noco (17 July 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> Commos, all commos comrade. Reds under the bed don't you know




Rumpy. you have finally woken up to this fact at long last...How many years has it taken me?..Thanks for explaining it to Macquack.


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## explod (17 July 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> Commos, all commos comrade. Reds under the bed don't you know




Yep,  workers trying to keep up the mortgage repayments,  educate and feed the kids and get to tge pub for a chat and a beer. 

You pr. cks with everything have lost the ability of appreciating the ordinary folk.  IMHO


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## noco (17 July 2015)

explod said:


> Yep,  workers trying to keep up the mortgage repayments,  educate and feed the kids and get to tge pub for a chat and a beer.
> 
> You pr. cks with everything have lost the ability of appreciating the ordinary folk.  IMHO




The workers will do a lot better without those thieving unions who keep ripping off the workers of their true entitlements.....Chiquita for one plus the other 4 mentioned at RC.

Haven't you been following the RC?

What a weak response.


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## explod (17 July 2015)

noco said:


> The workers will do a lot better without those thieving unions who keep ripping off the workers of their true entitlements.....Chiquita for one plus the other 4 mentioned at RC.
> 
> Haven't you been following the RC?
> 
> What a weak response.




Without the unions the sheares would still be on raddled sheep. 

Get real champ,  you must be a young buck with snot behind your ears. 

The businessman only thinks of profits not his people,  the workers. 

Did you know that 20% of people work in finance behind a computer.   Workers contribute to tangible GST,  real value.


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## noco (17 July 2015)

explod said:


> Without the unions the sheares would still be on raddled sheep.
> 
> Get real champ,  you must be a young buck with snot behind your ears.
> 
> ...




Get real.....This the 21st century...You are still living in the 19th century with regards to the sheep shearers.

In the last 70 years the unions have been infiltrated with communists who really do not have the workers interest at heart....Only disruption and ruination of our economy....Manufacturing jobs, gone overseas.....The vehicle industry can't compete because of high costs created by the unions....We can't even build ships economically without a blow out in cost and way behind schedule thanks to the unions and then they cry like stuffed pigs because Australia wants to buy overseas.....What do you expect?.....Continued subsidies from the government.


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## Macquack (18 July 2015)

noco said:


> Rumpy. you have finally woken up to this fact at long last...How many years has it taken me?..Thanks for explaining it to Macquack.




Noco, you have a preoccupation with commos.

Halafihi ‘Fihi’ Kivalu is just a thug and a common criminal who *acted alone*. 

'Fihi' is more likely to have criminal links to the Tongan mafia than any make-believe commo organisation.


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## noco (18 July 2015)

Macquack said:


> Noco, you have a preoccupation with commos.
> 
> Halafihi ‘Fihi’ Kivalu is just a thug and a common criminal who *acted alone*.
> 
> 'Fihi' is more likely to have criminal links to the Tongan mafia than any make-believe commo organisation.




Is that so?

Well, you are deluding yourself.

There are a lot more fish to catch in the union movement sea..


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## noco (8 August 2015)

Billy boy is not out of the woods yet......There is still plenty of dirty linen to be washed ....More evidence is coming to the surface on corruption in the AWU.



http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...rten_faces_new_grilling_as_investigators_dig/

*Bill Shorten has more explaining to do about a secret union deal to cut conditions for kickbacks:

    Senior building industry figures are prepared to challenge claims Opposition Leader Bill Shorten made under oath over his involvement in deals that delivered hundreds of thousands of dollars in kickbacks to his Australian Workers Union.

    The executives are expected to testify before the royal commission into union corruption… Fairfax Media understands royal commission investigators have targeted a new batch of documents relevant to Mr Shorten’s negotiations with Thiess John Holland over the EastLink project in the mid-2000s…

    The commission is especially interested in a secretive deal over EastLink that delivered more than $300,000 in payments to the AWU.

    A Fairfax Media analysis has found that almost half the payments made by Thiess John Holland to the AWU appear to involve suspect invoices for services never provided, including advertisements in the AWU magazine not published, for “Red Card” training provided by the employer not the union, and for “back strain” research.

    Lawyers expert in corruption say that anyone involved in, or with knowledge of, such falsifying of invoices faces the possibility of criminal charges.

    In 2005, the AWU signed a landmark workplace agreement on EastLink that cut standard industry conditions established by rival, the CFMEU, and delivered savings of as much as $100 million to Thiess John Holland…

    But the royal commission is focused on Mr Shorten’s role in the secretive side deal and $100,000 a year plus GST in payments to his union…

    Mr Shorten told the commission he did not “particularly remember” such discussions, later refining his evidence to acknowledge he may have raised the idea of the AWU providing training “and the like"… He denied any involvement in, or knowledge of, the issuing of bogus invoices. *

It would appear Billy has memory failure again.


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## Tisme (8 August 2015)

Very expensive exercise that the police could do in between catching motorists


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## SirRumpole (8 August 2015)

noco said:
			
		

> It would appear Billy has memory failure again.




That is only a valid statement if you can prove that he once knew about such things.


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## noco (8 August 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> That is only a valid statement if you can prove that he once knew about such things.




I do believe it will come out as further evidence becomes available.......Bill's  lack of memory will eventually be his undoing.


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## noco (8 August 2015)

Tisme said:


> Very expensive exercise that the police could do in between catching motorists




I think you will find the state governments are doing a fine job in reaping in revenue from sneaky hidden cameras, red lights, radar guns and now the new Liza guns......The police catching corrupt union criminals is a separate issue which is now being well exposed..


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## IFocus (8 August 2015)

Still waiting for the $100's of millions rip offs (like the banking and superannuation funds), mafia murderers, political connections (like recent revelations concerning the Liberal party).

Hell how about seeing some thing like long lines of retires losing $10s of millions and everything to dogy  investment schemes. 


Nope still waiting...........oh thats right its a $80 million dollar smear campaign against political opponents straight out of the US republican hand book......Abbott what a grub.


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## drsmith (8 August 2015)

This one's specifically for you IF.

Today's lead article in the political section of the left wing daily,

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...-grilling-over-awu-deals-20150807-gitzvk.html


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## noco (8 August 2015)

drsmith said:


> This one's specifically for you IF.
> 
> Today's lead article in the political section of the left wing daily,
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...-grilling-over-awu-deals-20150807-gitzvk.html





Nothing to see here Doc.....Move on..


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## noco (8 August 2015)

IFocus said:


> Still waiting for the $100's of millions rip offs (like the banking and superannuation funds), mafia murderers, political connections (like recent revelations concerning the Liberal party).
> 
> Hell how about seeing some thing like long lines of retires losing $10s of millions and everything to dogy  investment schemes.
> 
> ...




Correct me if I am wrong but I thought this thread was about the Royal Commission into union corruption.


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## IFocus (8 August 2015)

drsmith said:


> This one's specifically for you IF.
> 
> Today's lead article in the political section of the left wing daily,
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...-grilling-over-awu-deals-20150807-gitzvk.html




Thanks Dr just confirmed my point.

On the positive side Labor could afford to lose Shorten as he is the only thing keeping Abbott afloat


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## SirRumpole (13 August 2015)

The political bias of this Commission has finally been revealed



> Labor calls on union corruption royal commissioner Dyson Heydon to resign over Liberal links
> 
> Labor has called on the head of the royal commission into union corruption, Dyson Heydon, to disqualify himself from the post after revelations he was booked to speak at a Liberal Party fundraising event.
> 
> ...




Another Captain's pick, another dud, just like the Captain himself.


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## sydboy007 (13 August 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> The political bias of this Commission has finally been revealed
> 
> 
> 
> Another Captain's pick, another dud, just like the Captain himself.




Considering he gave his full support to Property Randall, Chopper Bishop, he'd have to give his full support for a Liberal fund raiser.

In what universe would someone think to link a judge presiding over a blatantly political RC to the Government's fund raising.

What ever fidning he comes up with, and some will very likely be valid, it's going to be all tainted.  Shame Liberal party, shame shame shame.

I wonder if Noco is attending the fund raiser??


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## noco (13 August 2015)

sydboy007 said:


> Considering he gave his full support to Property Randall, Chopper Bishop, he'd have to give his full support for a Liberal fund raiser.
> 
> In what universe would someone think to link a judge presiding over a blatantly political RC to the Government's fund raising.
> 
> ...




LOL...I am not even a member of any political party.

I think the Labor Party is breathing a lot of hot air because they fear the out come of the RC and will do anything to save their fearless leader from having to appear again before Heyden.

It may well back fire on the Labor Party.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...eral-party-event/story-fni0fit3-1227481732442

*A flyer for the Liberal shindig in Sydney on August 26 lists Commissioner Dyson Heydon as its guest speaker.

“The Lawyers Branch and the Legal Policy Branch invite you to attend that sixth annual Sir Garfield Barwick Address,” the flyer said.

“This year the address will be delivered by The Hon. Dyson Heydon AC QC.”

The event is a prominent date on the Liberal Party calendar, with Senator George Brandis a previous keynote speaker.

But Mr Heydon pulled out of the event this morning, a statement from the Royal Commission said.

“The Commissioner Dyson Heydon will not be delivering the Sir Garfield Barwick address,” it said.
Royal Commissioner Dyson Heydon.

Royal Commissioner Dyson Heydon.

“As early as 9.23 this morning (and prior to any media enquiry being received) he advised the organisers that “If there was any possibility that the event could be described as a Liberal Party event he will be unable to give the address, at least whilst he is in the position of Royal Commissioner.”

Labor has previously criticised the Royal Commission and questioned its $80 million price tag.*

The invitation came from the Lawyers Branch and Legal Branch.


----------



## SirRumpole (13 August 2015)

> “As early as 9.23 this morning (and prior to any media enquiry being received) he advised the organisers that “If there was any possibility that the event could be described as a Liberal Party event he will be unable to give the address, at least whilst he is in the position of Royal Commissioner.”




9:23 this morning, when his face has been on the advertising leaflets for months !

What a crock.

This whole Commission is a sham and a waste of $60 *million *.


----------



## sydboy007 (13 August 2015)

noco said:


> LOL...I am not even a member of any political party.
> 
> I think the Labor Party is breathing a lot of hot air because they fear the out come of the RC and will do anything to save their fearless leader from having to appear again before Heyden.
> 
> ...




I'm sure if it was for a Labor fund raiser you'd have a totally different attitude.

The optics are not good from a political perspective.  Even if the RC was finished it wouldn't look good to have attended a political event.

Judges should generally talk at neutral forums.  It helps to limit and perception of bias.


----------



## noco (13 August 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> 9:23 this morning, when his face has been on the advertising leaflets for months !
> 
> What a crock.
> 
> This whole Commission is a sham and a waste of $60 *million *.




$80 million....It will be $80 million well spent...look what it is revealing with those corrupt unions and how they are ripping off those poor old working  Mums and Dad.

The HSU...THE AWU....the CFMEU...NUFF said...Billy boy must be $hitting himself.

$80 million is peanuts as to what the Green/Labor coalition cost us with border control....$11 billion and still counting....What a shame and a waste that was ha?


----------



## Knobby22 (14 August 2015)

Another partisan pick by the PM. Another stuff up. Why doesn't the party get rid of him??


----------



## basilio (14 August 2015)

> $80 million....It will be $80 million well spent...look what it is revealing with those corrupt unions and how they are ripping off those poor old working Mums and Dad.



  Noco

I'm so, SO glad you can recognise the plight of the poor hard working Aussie battlers and the losses they have sustained under the nefarious unions. 

I gather you will be supporting the upcoming super Royal Commission into the activities of Banks and Financial institutions in ripping of the hard working Aussie savings through dodgy  financial advice (read corruption writ large...)

_Wait !! What do I see in yonder skies..  Three flights of flying pigs , followed closely by the a squadron of  bankers on private jets_


----------



## Tisme (14 August 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> The political bias of this Commission has finally been revealed
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This was a predictable revelation.

Any presiding chief would forever be tainted as a lapdog of the Liberals.

I think it's time the Labor Party started promising commissions; for truth and transparency of course.


----------



## SirRumpole (14 August 2015)

Tisme said:


> I think it's time the Labor Party started promising commissions; for truth and transparency of course.




Maybe one on the treatment of refugees chaired by Sarah Hanson Young ?


----------



## noco (14 August 2015)

basilio said:


> Noco
> 
> I'm so, SO glad you can recognise the plight of the poor hard working Aussie battlers and the losses they have sustained under the nefarious unions.
> 
> ...




I sure will.


----------



## So_Cynical (14 August 2015)

So a Judge with a long and distinguished record is chair of a politically motivated royal commission, and then makes a monumental error of judgement...a judge with poor judgement. :1zhelp:


----------



## noco (14 August 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> 9:23 this morning, when his face has been on the advertising leaflets for months !
> 
> What a crock.
> 
> This whole Commission is a sham and a waste of $60 *million *.




I think in fairness until otherwise proven wrong, Heyden accepted the invitation to address an annual dinner in honor of his colleague, Sir Garfield Barwick, before he became involved with the RC into union corruption....So the emphasis should be placed on his honoring his friend and colleague...Heyden has decided to pull out of his address, so what is the problem?

He probably realized at the last minute of the implications that after the cost per head of $80, there may have been a few hundred dollars left over which would go to the Liberal Party and of course the hot headed Labor Party jumps on the band wagon and has called it a Liberal Party fund raiser. ...The Labor Party are so desperate to have this RC squashed, they will do and say anything to terminate any further evidence to prove union corruption which may involve their fearless leader.

This is an RC into the unions not the ALP so if the Labor Party have nothing to hide, they need not fear...Don't forget there has been a couple of union hacks already arrested and the unions have been exposed to many corrupt practices.


----------



## SirRumpole (14 August 2015)

> .So the emphasis should be placed on his honoring his friend and colleague...Heyden has decided to pull out of his address, so what is the problem?




The problem is that he left it until now to pull out when he been the Commissioner for about 18 months, so he obviously thought there was nothing wrong until he got wind that it was going to get into the media.


----------



## drsmith (14 August 2015)

Good-morning CFMEU style,



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSjstEpGqRw

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-...d-abusing-fair-work-inspector-inquiry/5712140


----------



## sydboy007 (14 August 2015)

drsmith said:


> Good-morning CFMEU style,
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Sounds like the parents behind me shouting at each other and their kids.  The same ones supposedly providing a better environment for children than a same sex couple.

My personal trainer is working on an apartment construction site.  From his description of things they all shout and swear a lot, sometimes borderline physical.  Maybe just the hyper masculine environment they operate in?

Possibly just the system at fault, rather than the people aka Chopper Bishop protocol?

Maybe the issue is with the people who invited him there aka Pyne RC defence


----------



## drsmith (14 August 2015)

sydboy007 said:


> Sounds like the parents behind me shouting at each other and their kids.  The same ones supposedly providing a better environment for children than a same sex couple.
> 
> My personal trainer is working on an apartment construction site.  From his description of things they all shout and swear a lot, sometimes borderline physical.  Maybe just the hyper masculine environment they operate in?



The above isn't just someone swearing because they've hit their thumb with a hammer or a bit of banter between workers.

Intimidation by one person over another shouldn't happen in any workplace. Many have codes of conduct that forbid such behaviour and much more.


----------



## drsmith (14 August 2015)

On matters masculinity, Mr CFMEU Official in the above video looked slightly past peak testosterone.


----------



## Tisme (14 August 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> Maybe one on the treatment of refugees chaired by Sarah Hanson Young ?




I see we have had our own Watergate with the LIbs using govt agency to spy on her.


----------



## Tisme (14 August 2015)

sydboy007 said:


> From his description of things they all shout and swear a lot, sometimes borderline physical.  Maybe just the hyper masculine environment they operate in?




They sure do and the females do too (they swear better than a female lawyer). F bombs and C word heaven are construction sites.


----------



## Tisme (14 August 2015)

drsmith said:


> The above isn't just someone swearing because they've hit their thumb with a hammer or a bit of banter between workers.
> 
> Intimidation by one person over another shouldn't happen in any workplace. Many have codes of conduct that forbid such behaviour and much more.




Well then you should insist the building site foremen around Oz  be hauled up to the bench too, coz they are the worst at bullying, intimidation, abusive language and threats at the workers.


----------



## noco (14 August 2015)

Tisme said:


> I see we have had our own Watergate with the LIbs using govt agency to spy on her.




That is her opinion

Were they spying or looking after her security.....If she had been molested she would be screaming blue murder that it was  Abbott's fault.


----------



## sydboy007 (14 August 2015)

drsmith said:


> The above isn't just someone swearing because they've hit their thumb with a hammer or a bit of banter between workers.
> 
> Intimidation by one person over another shouldn't happen in any workplace. Many have codes of conduct that forbid such behaviour and much more.




A financial advisor bilking their clients or the finance industry milking it's customers with excessive fees should never happen, yet there seems to be an ongoing litany of it occuring.

Not surprisingly these people vote liberal in general, and provide lots of funds to them as well.

Could be why there's no RC into what's been going on.


----------



## IFocus (14 August 2015)

drsmith said:


> The above isn't just someone swearing because they've hit their thumb with a hammer or a bit of banter between workers.
> 
> Intimidation by one person over another shouldn't happen in any workplace. Many have codes of conduct that forbid such behaviour and much more.




Totally agree its an issue for one of the state agency's and they should hammer him so is this discovery worth $80 mil.


Still waiting for the $10's or $100's of millions rip off.


----------



## galumay (14 August 2015)

noco said:


> ..The Labor Party are so desperate to have this RC squashed, they will do and say anything to terminate




The problem for the Government is that even their Minister for Propaganda, Murdoch, is abandoning team-abbott, the AFR has been critical of the lack of judgement in Dyson Heydon accepting this invitation. Also implying that it was another captain's pick gone wrong. (unless the Murdoch gutter press has become part of the lefty fabian plot that first took over the ABC then Fairfax??) 

It looks like the end for the mad monk, without his Minister for Propaganda the end will come pretty quickly i suspect, the criticism of his government and he in particular in the Murdoch media empire is a death knell.

Once again the silver spooners just dont get it, its not relevant what the timing of him pulling out was - no member of the Judiciary should be appearing at political fundraisers, full stop.

The LNP seem to have no moral compass at all, its a massive misread of the electorate.

You would think the libs would have learnt their lessons with these politically motivated show trials, look how the 'bottom of the harbour' revelations came out of another politicised enquiry into unions!!


----------



## SirRumpole (15 August 2015)

noco said:


> That is her opinion
> 
> Were they spying or looking after her security.....If she had been molested she would be screaming blue murder that it was  Abbott's fault.




Photographing someone in her room is not looking after her security. 

The depth of government involvement, if any, in this issue needs to be exposed, and the whole question of using private security firms to do work that government agencies should be doing needs to be re-investigated. It's just an abrogation of responsibility for Ministers to hide behind the sins of others when they are directly responsible for the actions of their employees whether they are public servants or contractors.


----------



## sydboy007 (15 August 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> Photographing someone in her room is not looking after her security.
> 
> The depth of government involvement, if any, in this issue needs to be exposed, and the whole question of using private security firms to do work that government agencies should be doing needs to be re-investigated. It's just an abrogation of responsibility for Ministers to hide behind the sins of others when they are directly responsible for the actions of their employees whether they are public servants or contractors.




You contract out work so there's someone else to blame.

We're slowly moving to the US system of prisons for profit.

SERCO which was doing a lot of the Govt's dirty work.  For some reason tehy've not had to comply with Australian law

http://www.smh.com.au/business/comment-and-analysis/red-ink-flows-from-sercos-detention-centres.html



> Accounting Standard AASB 120 requires companies to disclose government contracts. The standard is black and white. Deloitte and Serco failed to follow it. Then there is AASB 124, which requires that a company "shall" disclose related-party transactions. Again, black and white.




Also for many years SERCO has not complied with the Corporations Act and filed its accounts on time.  there's plenty of other large companies suckling on the Govt teat doing exactly the same thing over an extended period.

The PAYG tax payer would be facing stiff penalties for such actions, but large corporations seem to get a free pass.

Ok, back to union bashing as they're the only issue this country needs to resolve to get back to sustainable economic growth.


----------



## noco (16 August 2015)

It seems very clear that if either the Labor Party or the unions take court action against Dyson Heydon. they will finish up with egg on their not so pretty faces.

The Labor Party are so desperate to have Heydon off the RC and will do and say anything.

The RC is about the trade unions which have already been proven to be corrupt, intimidating and with the use of stand over tactics, so what is the Labor Party so concerned about? 

It is worthy to read the comments herewith.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...485477776?sv=315644bfbeb69d9050c964fa1f0c416c


----------



## sydboy007 (17 August 2015)

noco said:


> It seems very clear that if either the Labor Party or the unions take court action against Dyson Heydon. they will finish up with egg on their not so pretty faces.
> 
> The Labor Party are so desperate to have Heydon off the RC and will do and say anything.
> 
> ...




If it's necessary to hold an RC into union corruption, why is the Abbott Govt so set AGAINST holding an RC in the Financial Services Industry corruption?  Considering the financial sector has doubled the share of GDP it represents over the last 20ish years, surely rooting out the corruption that has been shown to occur would be not only a worthy goal in itself, but good for the economy too.


----------



## noco (17 August 2015)

sydboy007 said:


> If it's necessary to hold an RC into union corruption, why is the Abbott Govt so set AGAINST holding an RC in the Financial Services Industry corruption?  Considering the financial sector has doubled the share of GDP it represents over the last 20ish years, surely rooting out the corruption that has been shown to occur would be not only a worthy goal in itself, but good for the economy too.




Why didn't the Green/Labor left wing socialists do it 2007/2013 when they had the opportunity?


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## noco (17 August 2015)

More extortion by the CFMEU ..They have been caught out this time and fined.

Pay up and we will leave you alone.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...in-extortion-bid/story-fn59noo3-1227486101987

*The Construction Forestry Mining and Energy Union has been hit with $45,000 in fines following a failed attempt to coerce a Northern Territory developer into paying its employees’ union fees.

In June 2013, the CFMEU — which is fending off litigation on 46 separate fronts from Fair Work Building and Construction — sent officials to builder Reday’s Central Apartments site in Darwin to sign up employees.

The site’s project manager told the officials repeatedly over two days that there was no interest from workers and the union’s reputation did little to help its recruitment efforts.

CFMEU official Kane Pearson, who was fined $6000, asked the project manager to pay union fees for workers in advance and get the money back over time.

“There’ll be more union officials coming into Darwin and I expect you to have a cheque payable to the CFMEU, not cash, for union fees for me on Friday morning,” Mr Pearson told the project manager, to which he replied: “This is extortion.”

The next day, union official Adam Olsen, who was fined $4600, told the site manager and project manager the site would be targeted for the enforcement of health and safety regulations.

“If you pay and we know this is a union site, we’ll leave you alone,” Mr Olsen said.

The union itself was fined $35,000.*

And Rumpy says it is a political which hunt.


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## Tisme (17 August 2015)

noco said:


> The union itself was fined $35,000.
> 
> And Rumpy says it is a political which hunt.




The union official should have been fined the $35000 and had up on criminal charges so he wouldn't be able to hold office in the future.


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## SirRumpole (17 August 2015)

noco said:


> More extortion by the CFMEU ..They have been caught out this time and fined.
> 
> Pay up and we will leave you alone.
> 
> ...




I was unable to get access to the article quoted by noco, but it seems to me that the fining of the CMFEU had nothing at all to do with the Royal Commission since it is still in progress and hasn't reported yet. So it seems that there are already processes for exposing and punishing union corruption, so why spend another $80 million if not for a witch hunt ?


----------



## noco (17 August 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> I was unable to get access to the article quoted by noco, but it seems to me that the fining of the CMFEU had nothing at all to do with the Royal Commission since it is still in progress and hasn't reported yet. So it seems that there are already processes for exposing and punishing union corruption, so why spend another $80 million if not for a witch hunt ?






*In June 2013, the CFMEU ”” which is fending off litigation on 46 separate fronts from Fair Work Building and Construction ”” sent officials to builder Reday’s Central Apartments site in Darwin to sign up employees.
*

These are the ones that are seen on the tip of the ice berg.......the $80 million will be well spent to expose the 90% below the water line......It is still peanuts compared to the Labor Party waste on illegal immigrants.....$11 billion +and still counting.

If Billy boy gets dragged into it as an ex union leader, stiff bickies.


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## Tisme (17 August 2015)

The $80 million will only be well spent in economic terms if it generates a much larger profit to the economy. Going on the 5 to 1 ratio of wholesale to retail we would need a $320 million ROI.


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## Tisme (17 August 2015)

So Dysan is one of the old boys:



> In his 2012 essay Political Animal, journalist David Marr, recounts how Mr Abbott "impressed a panel of worthies chaired by the governor of NSW, Sir Roden Cutler".
> "For Anglophiles and rugby players, the Rho*des was died-and-gone-to-heaven time. Winners must be scholars fond of sport who display "moral force of character and instincts to lead". The award to Abbott came as a surprise, particularly to those who had seen him up close on the SRC. One jibe at the time was, 'second-grade footballer, third-rate academic and fourth-class politician.'," Marr wrote.
> 
> 
> ...





http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...rized-rhodes-scholarship-20150817-gj0o8o.html


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## noco (18 August 2015)

Hold your nerve Dysen and stand up to these stand  over merchants from the left.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...487513782?sv=f45c117b784d5a4249d0465557406367


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## Tisme (18 August 2015)

It's not a matter of guilt or innocence, anyone running a microscope over virus must be virus free themselves otherwise the result is tainted.

He's an old boy and he knew fully well he was invited to a Liberal fundraiser. No way a high court judge is that naive. 

If the unions officials are anything like they used to be they will have a smoking gun they haven't produced yet on the fellow. That's how they operate:- up front bravado and death by a thousand cuts in case of an unsatisfactory (to them) outcome.


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## noco (18 August 2015)

noco said:


> Hold your nerve Dysen and stand up to these stand  over merchants from the left.
> 
> 
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...487513782?sv=f45c117b784d5a4249d0465557406367




I have a strong feeling the unions may back down on their legal threat....There is little doubt the unions thought they could bluff Dyson Heydon into resigning. 

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...-pursuing-heydon/story-e6frg71x-1227487499803

*Union bosses should think before pursuing Heydon

    The Australian
    August 18, 2015 12:00AM

    Print
    Save for later

53

The ACTU should think very carefully before any decision to mount a formal argument that Dyson Heydon must step aside as royal commissioner into trade union misbehaviour.

If the ACTU goes ahead, it exposes itself to the counter-argument, put pungently by Tony Abbott in question time yesterday, that it is seeking to cover up union betrayal of workers.

Mr Heydon has done the right thing by releasing emails about his agreement to speak at the Sir Garfield Barwick address, a Liberal Party fundraiser. He gave the ACTU until Thursday to decide whether it wants to argue that he must disqualify himself because of an appearance of bias. We’ve acknowledged that, as royal commissioner, Mr Heydon showed poor judgment in accepting the invitation. Mr Heydon’s admissions yesterday confirm this view; by his own account he had “overlooked” details of the invitation showing its links to the Liberals. He insisted that he had believed it was not a fundraiser until, of course, he belatedly grasped the nature of the event and withdrew.*


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## SirRumpole (18 August 2015)

noco said:


> I have a strong feeling the unions may back down on their legal threat....There is little doubt the unions thought they could bluff Dyson Heydon into resigning.






Of course you see nothing wrong with an individual deciding for himself whether he is biased or not ?


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## noco (18 August 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> Of course you see nothing wrong with an individual deciding for himself whether he is biased or not ?




The Green/Labor coalition cannot have too much confidence in their legal action against Heydon if they are now considering approaching the Governor General.

The Green/Labor left wing socialist  are so desperate...I wonder what their plan "B" will be if all else fails....More propaganda from the the ABC biased media outlet I guess..

Still have not heard any thing from the ABC criticizing the unions for bringing in union staff on 457 visas when I am sure those jobs could have filled by a Australian union members....What a lot of hypocrites your comrades are.  

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...|heading|homepage|homepage&itmt=1439889071938




Labor set to ask Governor-General Peter Cosgrove to sack Dyson Heydon

    The Australian
    August 18, 2015 5:07PM

    Print
    Save for later

173
Jared Owens
Reporter
Canberra
https://plus.google.com/116039583906467076146
Rosie Lewis
Reporter
Canberra
*Labor to ask G-G to sack Heydon

Labor senators are proposing a motion asking the Governor-General to sack Dyson Heydon. Source: AAP

Labor senators are proposing a motion asking the Governor-General to sack royal commissioner Dyson Heydon, in a parliamentary tactic not employed since 1931.

Labor Senate leader Penny Wong said that, if passed, the motion would leave Sir Peter Cosgrove with the discretion to dissolve the royal commission on the grounds that commissioner Dyson Heydon has “failed to uphold the standards of impartiality” expected of him.

“It has been some decades since it’s been used in the way we are proposing to use it; it remains one of the standing orders of the Senate and it remains a power of the legislature to express the view to the executive,” Senator Wong said in Canberra.

The Labor Party has previously argued a governor-general must only act on the advice of his ministers, decrying the dismissal of the Whitlam government in 1975 following obstruction of supply by a hostile Liberal-dominated Senate.

Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.

    MorePM digs in behind Heydon 

End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.

“What the Governor-General does with this message — this address, as it is formally called — is a matter, if it is passed by the Senate, is a matter for him. What we are saying is this is the appropriate way to express its views about Commissioner Heydon to the executive.”

Senate Clerk Rosemary Laing said the procedure known as an “address” is commonly used to communicate with the Queen or Governor-General.

However the Senate has not addressed a governor-general on a matter of equivalent seriousness since 1931, during the Scullin Labor government.

“There’s a connotation of both courtesy and comity in making a formal address from one arm of government to another,” Dr Laing told The Australian.

“What you’d expect is that the recipient would give due consideration to such a formal communication but it has no legal effect.”

The motion is set to be brought on for debate on Wednesday, although Senator Wong said she was open to delaying the motion if it might help to woo wary crossbenchers.

In 1931, the Scullin government repeatedly introduced regulations that were struck down by the Senate.

The fatigued upper-house then addressed the governor-general and asked him to prohibit the government from making the regulations.

Greens senators are expected to support the motion, although the opposition is also likely to need the backing of four of the eight crossbenchers to ensure its passage.*

How low can Labor go?


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## sydboy007 (18 August 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> Of course you see nothing wrong with an individual deciding for himself whether he is biased or not ?




Noco does it for himself all the time.

I say Heydon would in general terms probably come up with reasonable findings, but his actions also speak to a level of bias in how he sees unions and his past would show he is more right that centre right.

In the end he'll probably stay which is prob fit the best as it'll leave this ill conceived political hunt do damaged that any of the more biased findings wil be largely rejected by the public.


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## noco (18 August 2015)

sydboy007 said:


> Noco does it for himself all the time.
> 
> I say Heydon would in general terms probably come up with reasonable findings, but his actions also speak to a level of bias in how he sees unions and his past would show he is more right that centre right.
> 
> In the end he'll probably stay which is prob fit the best as it'll leave this ill conceived political hunt do damaged that any of the more biased findings wil be largely rejected by the public.




*Noco does it for himself all the time.
*
And what might that be?

What you and your comrades fearing will be the  outcome of the TURC?

If the Labor Party have done nothing wrong, what do they have to fear?...It is all about the unions not Labor.

You all seem terrified.....WHY?


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## Knobby22 (19 August 2015)

I am pretty sure Heydon will resign this Friday. He wont want to do a Bronwyn.


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## SirRumpole (19 August 2015)

> If the Labor Party have done nothing wrong, what do they have to fear?..




You've heard of witch trials ?

The "witch" was thrown in a pond and if she drowned she obviously had no supernatural powers and therefore wasn't a witch, but if she floated she was therefore a witch and burned at the stake.

The original "no win" situation.


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## Tisme (19 August 2015)

Of course the simple thing to do would be the ALP promising a Royal Commission into the behaviour and political bias of this and the previous Gillard/Rudd witch hunt commission. 

They should promise it now and have the Senate order the AFP move in and grab all information relating to the establishment and ongoing conversations, emails, etc before Abbott can do a Campbell Newman and shred everything prior to losing govt.

Fight fire with fire another day, I say. Then get on and force this paralysed govt into actually doing something instead of doubling the mother of all debts in 18 months.  One day Abbott will realise it isn't "Labor's" debt, but our debt and he has been elected to manage that debt not run around beaches at taxpayer cost to do charity work.

Clive Palmer said it well this morning, we had a commission about the deaths of people because contractors didn't follow the WH&S rules and now this govt wants to bring in electricians who are sub standard so they can install shoddy work. My bet is that any testing will be like the Uni exams here, where someone else sits the tests and gets away with it because they all look like they came from the same egg to many.

Weakening the unions opens the door for second rate tradies.


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## sydboy007 (19 August 2015)

noco said:


> *Noco does it for himself all the time.
> *
> And what might that be?
> 
> ...




kangaroo court comes to mind.  Heydon has shown in his past to be relatively anti union.  Remember that during an 1989 inquiry for the Greiner Coalition government, Heydon proposed that unions should be structured and policed by the corporate regulator (which would now be ASIC), under a system derived from corporate law, rather than by a separate system of industrial law courts.

I love this quote from him - "Radical legal change is best effected by professional politicians who have a lifetime's experience of assessing the popular will."

Lets take a step back to 1992 - The Gyles Royal commission into the NSW Construction industry found that:



> “[T]here is evidence of widespread lack of integrity and probity amongst the management of contractors and others involved in the industry ... This is reflected, for example, in the offering of dishonest inducements to union officials, workers, council inspectors, Workcover inspectors and those able to procure work..."




Funny how it's all the unions fault, but quite often it's various companies wanting to stifle the competition working hand in glove with the unions to achieve that goal.  Not the kind of issue that Heydon or Abbott seem terribly interested in though.

We also have the 1817 page interim report by Justice Heydon which identified key concerns about the use and operation of union election slush funds. They include that they operate largely in secret, have deficient or non-existent record-keeping and that candidates commonly plead ignorance on how money is raised and spent.  

Now, doesn't that sound just like what we've been hearing from the Abbott Govt with the money being sent through various fund raising arms, especially how the NSW Libs have tried to avoid the restrictions of donations from property developers by having them funnelled through the federal libs as they face no such restriction.  All the expense scandals and the best Abbott could come up with is that it's the fault of the system rather than the lack of common sense by the politician.


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## sptrawler (19 August 2015)

sydboy007 said:


> kangaroo court comes to mind.  Heydon has shown in his past to be relatively anti union.  Remember that during an 1989 inquiry for the Greiner Coalition government, Heydon proposed that unions should be structured and policed by the corporate regulator (which would now be ASIC), under a system derived from corporate law, rather than by a separate system of industrial law courts.
> 
> I love this quote from him - "Radical legal change is best effected by professional politicians who have a lifetime's experience of assessing the popular will."
> 
> ...




Maybe we should just let the unions run their own investigation? and while we are at it let the church investigate their own misdemeanores ?

You guys are funny.


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## SirRumpole (19 August 2015)

sptrawler said:


> Maybe we should just let the unions run their own investigation? and while we are at it let the church investigate their own misdemeanores ?
> 
> You guys are funny.




Maybe we should have two Commissioners. A judge who was appointed by the Liberal Party and one who was appointed by the Labor Party.

If they can manage to agree on their judgements then we can be reasonably confident that their decisions are unbiased.


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## sptrawler (19 August 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> Maybe we should have two Commissioners. A judge who was appointed by the Liberal Party and one who was appointed by the Labor Party.
> 
> If they can manage to agree on their judgements then we can be reasonably confident that their decisions are unbiased.




Criminal action, is criminal action, it doesn't matter who uncovers it.


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## SirRumpole (19 August 2015)

sptrawler said:


> Criminal action, is criminal action, it doesn't matter who uncovers it.




So what crime has Shorten been charged with ?


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## noco (19 August 2015)

Knobby22 said:


> I am pretty sure Heydon will resign this Friday. He wont want to do a Bronwyn.




Knobby, what gives you the impression Heydon will resign?

I think the Green/Labor coalition are up the creek without paddle.

Chris Kenny points out Labor's hypocrisy between Gillian Triggs and Dyson Heydon.....



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...triggs-criticism/story-e6frg6zo-1227489589876

*The Coalition has not been good at this over the past two years — after all this is a government that wanted to be rid of Human Rights Commissioner Gillian Triggs but saw her stay yet wanted to defend Speaker Bronwyn Bishop and let her go.

Speaking of Triggs, Labor and its media barrackers are being allowed to get away with blatant hypocrisy by using past criticisms of her to justify their attack on Heydon.

The link is not only erroneous but self-defeating because a proper examination of the facts shows why Triggs’ conduct has been questionable and Heydon’s has been exemplary.

Fairfax columnist Peter Fitzsimons raised Triggs in a television discussion with me about Heydon.

When I defended the royal commissioner Fitzsimons — perhaps projecting the Left’s penchant for double standards onto me — demanded to know whether I would be equally supportive if Triggs had attended ALP events.

Apart from the obvious point that Heydon had not attended a Liberal event — he had quite properly withdrawn — there was the small matter that it was highly likely Triggs had addressed political gatherings and, in her role, I couldn’t care less.

A brief check yesterday revealed she had delivered last year’s Fraser Lecture which is an ALP event put on by the Labor member for Fraser in the ACT, Andrew Leigh.

The ALP flyer advertising a Gillian Triggs lecture.

The ALP flyer advertising a Gillian Triggs lecture.

There may be more; good for her. She should be free to speak to any group she chooses.

The other senseless contradiction in the Triggs comparison is that Labor, most of the media and the broader Left have stoutly defended her and criticised the government for attacking her, yet they say the treatment of Heydon is comparable.

In other words they are defending an attack on Heydon by reference to an attack they decry. Rank hypocrisy.

Misinformation on this issue is so rampant that when the ABC ran its standard lines this morning (they are still yet to properly report Triggs’ failings) they won endorsement from the President of the Law Council of Australia, Duncan McConnell, who said Triggs was attacked because of the content of her report into children in detention.

This is simply not true. Her sin was not in the conducting of her inquiry but the opposite — it was in delaying the inquiry for political reasons.

The substance is important here, so let’s briefly show why criticism of Triggs is well founded and the criticism of Heydon is confected.

The Human Rights Commissioner has been criticised not for associations or perceived bias but for the way she has conducted herself in a partisan fashion in the day to day operations of a job that is supposed to be fulfilled in an objective manner.

Specifically she is criticised for deliberately delaying the inquiry into children in detention for 18 months, while Labor was in power and children were going into detention in record numbers.

She waited until the government had changed and children were no longer going into detention before she launched her inquiry.

Further, in testimony to a parliamentary committee, she denied discussing this issue with Labor ministers before later refusing to elaborate and then changing her false testimony to put on the record that she had discussed the issue with not one but two ALP ministers.

She also revealed that part of her reasoning for delaying the inquiry related to politics and the prospects of a snap election, yet she was referring to a period when Julia Gillard had announced an election date more than eight months in advance.

There is much more damning evidence from Triggs but you get the drift — she is under fire for her performance and her contradictory and misleading statements about it.

Heydon, on the other hand, seems to be under fire because he has performed his role too well.

He has methodically uncovered corrupt practices, shonky deals and alleged criminality that is extremely damaging to the union movement, the Labor Party and Shorten.

If these vital revelations are acted upon they promise to help jobs growth, productivity and fairness for workers into the future. True Labor supporters would welcome them.

Yet Labor and its barrackers adopt a confected campaign against Heydon because he agreed to give a prestigious legal lecture that is run under the auspices of the Liberal Party.

There would be no material problem if he gave the lecture but in order to ensure there cannot even be a perception of bias, he withdrew.

Yet Labor calls for his head. And it is supported by much of the media, including the taxpayer-funded broadcasters.

This is a dangerous time for politics and legal accountability.

*


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## SirRumpole (19 August 2015)

The ultimate "people who live in glass houses.." lesson

Kathy Jackson ordered to pay $1.3m in compensation to Health Services Union 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-...ed-to-pay-1-3m-in-compensation-to-hsu/6707598


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## sydboy007 (19 August 2015)

those dastardly lazy unemployed

love it when a corporation gets caught out for lying.  just a shame there's little in the way of consequences for them.  just a way to bring in foreign workers that are less likely to know their rights.

http://www.idiottax.net/2015/02/notes-from-abetzian-employment-reign.html?m=1



> And that shortage would be rearing its head again. Ahead of the 2015 summer Costa was back calling out for workers.
> 
> Last year Costa farms in Tassie paid out about $2 million in seasonal wages to backpackers and Tongan workers. Cameron Wilkins is Costa's Tasmania berry category commercial manager. He said this year Costa would see a 40 per cent jump in picking jobs..."We employ anyone who will come and do the work at the time we need them," Mr Wilkins said. Last year more than 80 per cent of Costa's seasonal workforce were not local. "We don't know why," Mr Wilkins said. "We would like to employ locals because over time we need a maintenance crew and that's all-year round work. "We want to keep the money in the district . . . that's our ultimate goal." Mr Wilkins said jobs were available for six-month periods and 12 months.






> Then came the weasel words from Costa's ever available manager Cameron Wilkins. And that Facebook response was even less forgiving.
> 
> Costa commercial manager Cameron Wilkins said his administration team was very small and had to sort through hundreds of applicants. "If people only identify one point of picking across the Coast that will limit the opportunity to pick here and now," he said. *"We probably have availability for 750 positions this year, on our list of prospective employees with have over 1500, and a lot of people started putting their names down in April of last year, so if you've just applied recently you are a fair way down the list."*
> 
> Huh? See what just happened there. Old Cam just put it back onto the workers - well you probably were picky about which plantation you wanted to pick cotton, sorry berries on. Then in the most bizarre revelation, admits they have a potential employee list of over 1500 and were still sorting them because his admin team couldn't cope, yet the day previous he'd been squealing to multiple media organisations he couldn't get workers and people should be calling him for jobs.




So if you have 1500 applicants for roughly 900 jobs, just how can you continually call out that the locals ain't interested?


----------



## sptrawler (19 August 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> So what crime has Shorten been charged with ?




I didn't mention anyone, sensitive aren't we.

But reading your post above, it sounds as though Kathy Jackson has, who is to say she is the last one uncovered?


----------



## Knobby22 (19 August 2015)

noco said:


> Knobby, what gives you the impression Heydon will resign?
> 
> I think the Green/Labor coalition are up the creek without paddle.




I think he will decide its not worth his while. 
He was essentially trapped by the NSW Libs and; from his own high standards; I think he will say his position is untenable. He may decide that he can justify his position and stay but he would have to be confident that nothing else comes out. It didn't help that he was on the selection committee that gave Abbott his Rhodes scholarship.

We shall see.He makes his decision Friday. If he stays then you can expect a forceful argument from him of why he should stay.


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## sptrawler (19 August 2015)

I see what you mean about it being nothing but a witch hunt, Rumpy, I just read the Kate Jackson story, sounds like the unions are a breeding ground for unsavoury people.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/k...thief-liar-and-hypocrite-20150819-gj2fl4.html


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## dutchie (19 August 2015)

Looks like the Australian Union Party/ACTU is going to proceed to make a fool of themselves.



ACTU confirms it will move to have Dyson Heydon disqualified at the unions royal commission on Friday

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...-on-friday-20150819-gj2nu3.html#ixzz3jEuSYvWz
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook


----------



## sptrawler (19 August 2015)

dutchie said:


> Looks like the Australian Union Party/ACTU is going to proceed to make a fool of themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





So they think changing commissioners, will change the outcome, best of luck with that.

If there wasn't anything to worry about, they wouldn't be worried who ran the Royal Commission.lol


----------



## noco (19 August 2015)

Knobby22 said:


> I think he will decide its not worth his while.
> He was essentially trapped by the NSW Libs and; from his own high standards; I think he will say his position is untenable. He may decide that he can justify his position and stay but he would have to be confident that nothing else comes out. It didn't help that he was on the selection committee that gave Abbott his Rhodes scholarship.
> 
> We shall see.He makes his decision Friday. If he stays then you can expect a forceful argument from him of why he should stay.




Dyson Heydon is a Rhode Scholar himself...How can you associate him with politics because he was on the selection committee?

Abbott was not even in a political party then.....He was only a boy.
.

You and your comrades are so desperate to link Heydon and Abbott as Liberal buddies.

Get over it.

*At Fairfax Media they’ve discovered the clairvoyant’s conflict: Mr Heydon sat on the panel that handed out a Rhodes scholarship to a young student by the name of Tony Abbott 35 years ago. What are they suggesting? That Mr Heydon saw before him a future prime minister who one day might repay him with diverting work as a royal commissioner? Standards to do with conflicts of interest used to be more pragmatic. Barwick himself became High Court chief justice in 1964 after six years in conservative politics. Lionel Murphy was another High Court judge who had first served as attorney-general, his party being Labor. The great Owen Dixon, who sat on the court for 35 years, did various jobs for prime ministers on both sides of the divide — while he was still a judge. For Robert Menzies, Sir Owen chaired the Central Wool Committee, and for John Curtin he took up a diplomatic role as Australian minister in Washington.*


----------



## noco (19 August 2015)

IMHO, the LUGS (Labor,unions and Greenies) are going to finish up with egg on their faces.



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...89161674?sv=936217355d2Te79eb36c940d49fa0876c

*The trade union royal commission has already referred 26 union and ex-union officials to law *enforcement agencies and regulators to investigate more than 50 potential breaches of criminal and civil laws — and it is coming in under *budget.

The royal commission, which The Australian can reveal had spent $28 million of its $61m budget by the end of June this year, is still investigating the Australian Workers Union over alleged *donations and sweetheart deals with employers during the stewardship of Bill Shorten and his successors.

Further evidence this week tendered to the commission in Sydney builds on a raft of allegations since hearings began last year that unions are raising millions of dollars in untaxed funds from *employers through so-called *education and training and social welfare programs and income protection schemes. The revelations could result in further referrals for criminal and civil sanctions*.


----------



## SirRumpole (19 August 2015)

> is still investigating the Australian Workers Union over alleged *donations and sweetheart deals with employers during the stewardship of Bill Shorten and his successors.




Of course, that is nothing like donations to the Liberal party followed by sweetheart deals for coal companies and other mates is it ?


----------



## sptrawler (19 August 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> Of course, that is nothing like donations to the Liberal party followed by sweetheart deals for coal companies and other mates is it ?




I don't think it will be donations to political parties, that will be the issue, it will be what happened to the donations after they were recieved.IMO

That is of course, unless the donations were extorted, from the donor.


----------



## noco (19 August 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> The ultimate "people who live in glass houses.." lesson
> 
> Kathy Jackson ordered to pay $1.3m in compensation to Health Services Union
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-...ed-to-pay-1-3m-in-compensation-to-hsu/6707598




Holy sufferin' catfish and you lefties want to close down the TURC...I wonder why?

There are still BIGGER fish to catch yet.

We have only seen the tip of the ice berg.


----------



## SirRumpole (19 August 2015)

noco said:


> Holy sufferin' catfish and you lefties want to close down the TURC...I wonder why?
> 
> There are still BIGGER fish to catch yet.
> 
> We have only seen the tip of the ice berg.




Kathy Jackson was NOT caught by the Royal Commission.

 The Union took her to court in a civil action and won.

 And it didn't cost us $80 million.


----------



## noco (19 August 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> Of course, that is nothing like donations to the Liberal party followed by sweetheart deals for coal companies and other mates is it ?




And there could be nothing like a donation of $1 Million to Bill Shorten's GETUP by the unions......Tax free money too.


----------



## noco (19 August 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> Kathy Jackson was NOT caught by the Royal Commission.
> 
> The Union took her to court in a civil action and won.
> 
> And it didn't cost us $80 million.




Where do you lefties get this $80 million from?..Exaggerating again Rumpy to make it look worse than you make out.

The Fabians propaganda machine is working overtime again.

Th*e royal commission, which The Australian can reveal had spent $28 million of its $61m budget by the end of June this year, is still investigating the Australian Workers Union over alleged *donations and sweetheart deals with employers during the stewardship of Bill Shorten and his successors.*

Peanuts compared to the Labor Party waste 2007/2013.......$11 billion and still counting on illegal immigrants.

The unions have cost the economy of Australia over $6 billion in the recent years.......The TURC is money well spent if there rotten corruption is stopped.


----------



## Knobby22 (20 August 2015)

Noco
It's about perception.
The judge needs to be like Caesers wife.
The Rhodes scholorship is only minor but adds to the perception along with accepting a Liberal Party function that he may be biased even though he most likely is not biased. Judges have quit cases for less. 
The reason the Rhodes scholarship matters is because it suggests in the present day that he is in association with the Prime Minister.

Note it is his decision! No one can make him. Anyway he will decide soon.
He will either argue his case or quit. It depends on his state of mind.


----------



## SirRumpole (20 August 2015)

noco said:


> Where do you lefties get this $80 million from?..Exaggerating again Rumpy to make it look worse than you make out.
> 
> .




http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...-unions-royal-commission-20150710-gia0wo.html


----------



## Tisme (20 August 2015)

Maybe now the Libs like unions and hate those only few, low down rotten filthy corrupt individuals in them,  like Bill Shorten, Gillard and half the lower house,  the voters in Canning can see the Govt isn't a wasting taxpayer monies  on  vendettas afterall, but interested only in jobs, jobs, jobs (417's to be exact) and being open for business (to foreigners).


----------



## SirRumpole (20 August 2015)

Tisme said:


> Maybe now the Libs like unions and hate those only few, low down rotten filthy corrupt individuals in them,  like Bill Shorten, Gillard and half the lower house,  the voters in Canning can see the Govt isn't a wasting taxpayer monies  on  vendettas afterall, but interested only in jobs, jobs, jobs (417's to be exact) and being open for business (to foreigners).




Yes, it's a pretty clear case of driving down local wages and conditions for the benefit of corporations.

Workchoices by another name.


----------



## Tisme (20 August 2015)

noco said:


> Where do you lefties get this $80 million from?...





Well I'm no leftie Noco, but I too wonder where Rumpole gets his figures from.

Being concerned about my money being wasted on commissions for overt childish hate, I tend to keep abreast of things via the govt's own sites, rather than reading biased news. Based on the govt getting ~20 cents in the dollar from GDP, how much does GDP have to increase to cover these costs?



> CHAIR:I am just wondering if there is any indication of when it might conclude. On notice can you give me,
> unless you have it with you, indications of the cost of that commission to date.
> 
> Mr Reed: The letters patent indicate that the final report is to be provided to the government by 15 December
> ...




How do you feel about pigs, swill and troughs Noco, when we have a police forces in the land doing more important stuff like booking motorists and dobbing in kids to Indonesian death sentences?


----------



## SirRumpole (20 August 2015)

Tisme said:


> Well I'm no leftie Noco, but I too wonder where Rumpole gets his figures from.
> 
> Being concerned about my money being wasted on commissions for overt childish hate, I tend to keep abreast of things via the govt's own sites, rather than reading biased news. Based on the govt getting ~20 cents in the dollar from GDP, how much does GDP have to increase to cover these costs?
> 
> ...




I thank you Tisme for that update !

Seems I was rather conservative (!?) with my figures.


----------



## noco (20 August 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> Yes, it's a pretty clear case of driving down local wages and conditions for the benefit of corporations.
> 
> Workchoices by another name.




Bill Shorten is well accustomed to ripping off workers with no penalty  rates ..Just take the Clearevent case where workers were paid a flat rate of $18 per hour whether they worked 12 hours a day or 7 days a week..same pay.

Their competitors were having to pay $28 per hour.

Bill Shorten looking after Bill Shorten who benefited  by $40,000.

No choice by another name.


----------



## overhang (20 August 2015)

noco said:


> Bill Shorten is well accustomed to ripping off workers with no penalty  rates ..Just take the Clearevent case where workers were paid a flat rate of $18 per hour whether they worked 12 hours a day or 7 days a week..same pay.
> 
> Their competitors were having to pay $28 per hour.
> 
> ...




I'm a little confused by your stance, you have time and time again mentioned how workers are paid too much because of unions and it has forced businesses to close and given your tough stance on high wages I assumed you would be one of those opposed to penalty rates and here we have Shorten saving the company a lot of money by lowering their wage costs and your all for the workers getting paid more.


----------



## sydboy007 (20 August 2015)

overhang said:


> I'm a little confused by your stance, you have time and time again mentioned how workers are paid too much because of unions and it has forced businesses to close and given your tough stance on high wages I assumed you would be one of those opposed to penalty rates and here we have Shorten saving the company a lot of money by lowering their wage costs and your all for the workers getting paid more.




Also no real in depth analysis.

Did the deal keep the company operating?  Was this better than no jobs?  Was it actually a good deal in the sense that Shorten was able to get workers and management to agree on a way to keep the company operating?

Pretty much Noco is showing that if Shorten gets workers a pay rise he's hurting companies.  If he doesn't get a payrise he's shorting the workers.

Now what was the base pay of the workers before, what was their usual roster, how does the $18 flat rate of pay compare to their old rates over the working year in terms of their take home pay.  Where's the evidence that the deal was bad for the employees?

No mention of obscene CEO pay levels which have been shown to have no relationship to company performance or shareholder returns - quite often it's a negative correlation to shareholder returns.

Just as there's some corrupt people in companies, so too will there be in unions.  The numerous scandals from the financial services industries shows this is true, yet Abbott has no interest in rooting out the corruption, quite likely because the industry provide large licks of donations, with many of the workers voting Liberal as well.


----------



## noco (20 August 2015)

overhang said:


> I'm a little confused by your stance, you have time and time again mentioned how workers are paid too much because of unions and it has forced businesses to close and given your tough stance on high wages I assumed you would be one of those opposed to penalty rates and here we have Shorten saving the company a lot of money by lowering their wage costs and your all for the workers getting paid more.




Bill Shortens had an ulterior motive in that it was in BS self interest.

I don't know old you are and whether have learned anything from the history of the past 60 years...I have lived through the communist dominated unions during the 50's, 60's and 70's where their demand over that period has ruined the manufacturing industry in Australia...Their demands were excessive to say the least.

In my early days as a plumber we worked our 40 hours, 8 to 5, Monday to Friday for the one company......If we were asked to work on weekends in excess of the 40 hours we were paid time and a half on Saturday morning, double time on Saturday afternoon and Sunday....We received two weeks annual leave per year without the 17.5 % leave loading

The majority of shops closed their doors at midday Saturday until 8am Monday.

Now days shops are open 7 days a week and  we see men, woman and eligible aged children working Saturdays and Sundays to earn some extra cash to meet living expenses....Most of the men and women have most likely completed their 38 hours and seek a second job with a different employer on the weekends...Are they really entitled to overtime rates because they work on the weekends for a different employer?.....It then becomes an individual catch 22 situation as to whether it the business is able to absorb additional costs by having to pay penalty rates eg. someone who washes dishes in a restaurant for $42 per hour on Saturday night......Some business may be able to absorb that cost and some may not hence the reason some businesses have no alternative but close their doors on the week end.

At the end of the day, there are people who lose out......The restauranteur loses profit and some worker loses the chance to work and gain an extra few dollars.....I am sure their are people willing to work on a flat rate on the weekends without being restricted by unions demands.

I know the Casino/Hotel in Townsville pay all their staff a flat rate irrespective of whether they work weekends or not......some start at 6am in the morning and some finish at 4 am......I would not be surprised if their rate was slightly higher than the award rate but that is called an enterprise agreement and no penalty rates apply except if they are requested to work longer than 38 hours.   

I trust I have explained in a simple way for you to understand my drift.


----------



## sydboy007 (20 August 2015)

noco said:


> Bill Shortens had an ulterior motive in that it was in BS self interest.
> 
> I don't know old you are and whether have learned anything from the history of the past 60 years...I have lived through the communist dominated unions during the 50's, 60's and 70's where their demand over that period has ruined the manufacturing industry in Australia...Their demands were excessive to say the least.
> 
> ...




So do you support weekend penalty rates or don't you?

I'm not sure how a dishwasher earns $42 an hour.  The minimum pay is currently $17.29 / hour so even at sunday double rates that's only $34.58

http://www.fairwork.gov.au/about-us.../minimum-workplace-entitlements/minimum-wages

I've been a shiftworker all my life.  I lose a lot by doing the unsociable hours and weekend work.  I think it's even worse for those with children.

The economy is there to support workers, not for workers to support the economy.  I believe that penalty rates help to stop us moving towards a 24 hour lifestyle that does no one good.

You'd probably find a lot of people working weekends would rather not if the penalty rates were cut.  Some will because they're desperate, otherwise will decide the family / social time is worth more than the reduced pay if they can afford to get by.  

There's nothing stopping a restaurant from having a separate weekend menu that adds to the normal price to make the weekend penalty rates affordable.  If people don't want to pay then don't open.  Reduced supply will increase demand at other venues still open allowing them to afford the penalty rates.  It's supposedly how the free market economy should operate.


----------



## noco (20 August 2015)

How the Green/Labor coalition are running a protection racket to save the CFMEU....Labor will do anything and say anything to scarp the TURC.


http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...is_running_a_protection_racket_for_the_cfmeu/

 LABOR’s attack on former judge Dyson Heydon is actually its third campaign to save the corruption-ridden CFMEU union from justice.

This is the true scandal: Labor is effectively running a protection racket for one of the country’s most notorious unions.

It is linked to the CFMEU by cash, friendship, blood and patronage, and keeps using its political power in a way that defends the corrupt.

I believe it shows.

*In government in 2012, Labor agreed to CFMEU demands to sack the Australian Building and Construction Commission, which had repeatedly taken the union to court.

This week Labor voted with the Greens and independent senators to block the Abbott Government’s attempts to reinstate the ABCC.

Now — in its third strike for the CFMEU — Labor is smearing Heydon, a former High Court judge, demanding he be sacked as the head of the royal commission into union corruption.

Labor wants Heydon terminated not only because his commission has heard damaging evidence of Labor leader Bill Shorten’s shady deals as head of the Australian Workers Union — especially the undeclared and disguised personal donation of $40,000 he accepted from an employer.
*
(Read full column here.)


----------



## SirRumpole (20 August 2015)

No use quoting Bolt noco, he's completely unqualified to make any judgement regarding bias.


----------



## sydboy007 (20 August 2015)

noco said:


> How the Green/Labor coalition are running a protection racket to save the CFMEU....Labor will do anything and say anything to scarp the TURC.
> 
> 
> http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...is_running_a_protection_racket_for_the_cfmeu/




Bit like the NSW Libs funnelling banned property developer donations through the federal libs.

Low and behold the new laws being introduced in NSW that reduce the time frame you can make a claim on building defects.  All for the benefit of consumers of course.


----------



## Tisme (20 August 2015)

Anyone read the revised edition of Wikipedia about Dyson Heydon..... 

Of course no one would ever guess an event named after a loyal servant of the Menzies Govt was a Liberal Party conflab:

*2010*

George Brandis

View attachment 63928


*2011*

Robert Ellicott (Garfield's cousin)

Attorney-general in the Fraser Liberal government

*2012*

TEF Hughes

Liberal Govt attorney-general

Check out the donations rider on the 2012 Dinner Invite:

http://inbrief.nswbar.asn.au/articles/af77f7e6a3215c1d053017402886fcf2

*2013*

No show

*2014*

Murray Gleeson

Judge

Last year's address was given by a bloke who defended Ian Sinclair and then Billy McMahon, both suspected of having links to the LNP


----------



## noco (20 August 2015)

sydboy007 said:


> So do you support weekend penalty rates or don't you?
> 
> I'm not sure how a dishwasher earns $42 an hour.  The minimum pay is currently $17.29 / hour so even at sunday double rates that's only $34.58
> 
> ...




That $42 per hour is paid to dish washers on public holidays.


----------



## noco (20 August 2015)

sydboy007 said:


> Bit like the NSW Libs funnelling banned property developer donations through the federal libs.
> 
> Low and behold the new laws being introduced in NSW that reduce the time frame you can make a claim on building defects.  All for the benefit of consumers of course.




Oh, I thought that was Eddie Obeib (forgive me if I have spelt his name incorrect).


----------



## noco (20 August 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> No use quoting Bolt noco, he's completely unqualified to make any judgement regarding bias.




Rumpy, Bolt is only the messenger.

Are you denying his statement is not true?


----------



## SirRumpole (20 August 2015)

noco said:


> Rumpy, Bolt is only the messenger.
> 
> Are you denying his statement is not true?




It's more opinion than fact, slanted to his own personal bias towards his Fuhrer Tony Abbott.


----------



## sptrawler (20 August 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> It's more opinion than fact, slanted to his own personal bias towards his Fuhrer Tony Abbott.




Somewhat like Labors opinion of the Royal Commissioner, slanted towards their own personal bias towards saving their ar$es.


----------



## IFocus (20 August 2015)

sptrawler said:


> Somewhat like Labors opinion of the Royal Commissioner, slanted towards their own personal bias towards saving their ar$es.




Fraid not he is being judged by his own standards.


----------



## sptrawler (20 August 2015)

IFocus said:


> Fraid not he is being judged by his own standards.




Well all things being equal, the results should still be the same. The results brought down by a high court judge, would be open to examination and challenge.

However if the person has attained that level, the judgements would be very carefully considered, unlike some of the smear squad.lol

There are Lawyers and there are Lawyers, the Labor Party has its fair share. Wasn't Craig Thompson a lawyer?


----------



## Tisme (21 August 2015)

IFocus said:


> Fraid not he is being judged by his own standards.




In this instance it will come down to Caesar judging Caesar


----------



## overhang (21 August 2015)

noco said:


> Bill Shortens had an ulterior motive in that it was in BS self interest.
> 
> 
> I trust I have explained in a simple way for you to understand my drift.




I get your drift but am still a bit confused by your stance on if you support penalty rates or not.  A bit over 10 years ago I was doing as you described and worked full time during the week and did some weekend work for the extra dosh and to help out, we weren't paid penalty rates for the Saturday and Sunday shifts but that is just the nature of the game.  Having said that it is a hell of a grind if you do this over a long period of time, it puts strain on relationships, family and social outings given that most the population have weekends off.  I think its completely reasonable that if someone is working the weekend and miss out on family time etc that they're reimbursed accordingly but imo double time on Sunday is an overkill and should be 1.5. 

I actually think it balances out atm and is capitalism at play, the strong well run cafes survive and the weaker ones don't because of the increased weekend wages there may not be enough demand for all to stay open.  So some close and others open and do quite well by picking up the increased demand from opposition cafes being closed.

I have said it on here before but unions only function well at a certain equilibrium of power between the employers and the unions.  Without unions you're just a number if you work for a large company, you have no bargaining power going in and asking for a pay rise, you're dispensable and many company's would take full advantage of that. On the other end of the spectrum give unions compulsory unionism and the ability to be able to call a strike at will and watch as productivity comes to a halt. 
My number one hope from the RC is that they deregister the CFEMU, they seem to have too many bad eggs in that bunch that no amount of regulation will solve.


----------



## noco (21 August 2015)

overhang said:


> I get your drift but am still a bit confused by your stance on if you support penalty rates or not.  A bit over 10 years ago I was doing as you described and worked full time during the week and did some weekend work for the extra dosh and to help out, we weren't paid penalty rates for the Saturday and Sunday shifts but that is just the nature of the game.  Having said that it is a hell of a grind if you do this over a long period of time, it puts strain on relationships, family and social outings given that most the population have weekends off.  I think its completely reasonable that if someone is working the weekend and miss out on family time etc that they're reimbursed accordingly but imo double time on Sunday is an overkill and should be 1.5.
> 
> I actually think it balances out atm and is capitalism at play, the strong well run cafes survive and the weaker ones don't because of the increased weekend wages there may not be enough demand for all to stay open.  So some close and others open and do quite well by picking up the increased demand from opposition cafes being closed.
> 
> ...




You obvious did not read my post fully......I am in favor of penalty rates provided the employee has worked his/her 38 hours per week for the one company and is then asked to work extra hours.

If he/she then decides to earn some extra dollars by taking a second job on the weekend, on public holidays or at night, why should the second employer have to pay overtime when they have not worked 38 hours for the second employer....Isn't overtime classified as penalty rates?

As I stated in my previous post...it is a catch 22 situation.....If a business cannot absorb the extra pay cost, it then becomes not viable for them to open their doors and in consequence he or she misses out on a job...You then go on to say that he or she can go to another business who can pay the extra....Then it comes down to supply and demand of jobs available...less businesses to open means a job less for someone else.

The other fact is nobody has twisted their arms to take a second...that is purely voluntary.

The second factor is the unions and the Labor party are always advocating a shorter working week so the Mums and Dads can have more time together as a family....Now if they choose to have less time together to go the beach, go camping or fishing with the kids and decide to sacrifice all that to earn more dollars, then that is their decision.

Unionism is almost becoming redundant with only some 15 % of workers in a union and this why Bill Shortens AWU were forcing employers to pay their employees  union fees without the employees sanction or knowledge....In most cases no union form was signed by the employee.

Now a days, Enterprise bargaining takes place where there are several employees...The company sets out rates of pay and conditions which are presented to the employees and the employees discuss those conditions amongst themselves and if fair and reasonable they accept.....If they do not agree they then go back to the employer and air their grievances.....If they still don't agree, they have the choice to seek other employment. 

I hope that clears the air for you.


----------



## noco (26 August 2015)

Janet Albrechtsen exposes the Labor Party influence on the NSW bar association and their lack of support for Dyson Heydon.

These people gave their full support to their comrade Gillian Triggs but not to Heydon.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...498613845?sv=1ac302926d826076bfe5d05f14cf8736

Royal commissioner Dyson Heydon is yet to rule on union submissions claiming apprehended bias. That’s as it should be. These are serious legal questions. But there is boundless irony in the confected outrage directed at Heydon.

His accusers in Labor and the union movement are the most prodigious perpetrators of political bias. That’s politics. It’s what we might expect when Bill Shorten is fighting for his political survival and a union movement is desperate to distract us from the mounting evidence of union corruption.

Politics is not principled. By contrast, lawyers, and those who hold senior positions representing the legal profession, should be better than politicians. Yet the tardy and messy conduct from the NSW Bar Association suggests more tawdry politics from entirely the wrong quarters have been injected into the Heydon saga.

The lawyers at the NSW Bar, who have been so fast and furious in their blistering responses on other fronts, hit the slow-motion button when it came to defending Heydon, who, after all, is their most distinguished alumnus.

The Heydon story broke on the morning of August 13. It took until August 19, six days later, for NSW Bar president Jane Needham SC to issue a statement defending Heydon. Sources close to Needham say she had to be dragged kicking and screaming to that end by other members of the NSW Bar. Even then, Needham issued a media release only after Andrew Bolt asked what every fair-minded person was wondering: “Why won’t the leftist NSW Bar Association defend an honest judge from Labor’s sliming?”

Worse, the NSW Bar president’s short statement was about as lukewarm as the Pacific Ocean on a mid-August morning. It said the “personal abuse of the royal commissioner is not appropriate” and that Heydon “should not be the subject of personal attacks”.

It was so faint-hearted in defending Heydon from vicious political attacks that NSW barristers demanded more from their president, who, remember, purports to represent the Bar.

The next day, Needham issued a second media release offering just a tad more support. It said personal abuse of “a royal commissioner is never appropriate and is deplorable”.

Insiders say the fact Needham had to be forced to issue two statements on two consecutive days exposes the depth of unhappiness in barrister ranks over the growing politicisation of the Bar.

And no wonder. Compare and contrast the NSW Bar president’s swift and robust responses on other fronts. On Friday, June 27, last year, NSW Premier Mike Baird announced a review of bail laws that replaced the presumption against bail for serious off*ences such as murder. Three days later, on Monday June 30, Needham shot out a media release attacking the move.

There was more fast media legwork following the Lindt cafe siege in December. With equal speed, within three days, Needham joined ABC Radio’s AM program to defend the judiciary from death threats, following news gunman Man Haron Monis had been out on bail when he took 18 hostages.

Last month, Needham outdid herself by pushing out a media release within two days of the Federal Court case involving Adani’s Carmichael mine development in Queensland. Needham criticised the Prime Minister, who suggested green activists were using the courts to sabotage the coalmine. Using fierce words and six paragraphs, Needham rebuked Tony Abbott for his “lack of understanding of the independent role of the courts in our democracy”.

It was nonsense given that Abbott’s fight was with the progress-hating activists and their use of “lawfare” to hinder development.

*And Needham excelled earlier this year when it came to Gillian Triggs. Following the release of Human Rights Commission report The Forgotten Children in mid-February, the Abbott government queried why Triggs had delayed the HRC inquiry until after Labor left office. Not unreason*ably, the Prime Minister pointed out that when Labor was in power “hundreds of people were drowning at sea’’ and “almost 2000 children (were) in detention”.

Attorney-General George Brandis echoed the concerns, saying the government was “disappointed and surprised’’ the commission “did not start this inquiry until 2014, considering the problem was at its most acute prior to the 2013 election”.
*
Enter the NSW Bar president who, together with the head of the Law Council of Australia, announced their “unusual step of issuing a joint statement because of the unprecedented attack” on Triggs. The statement was replete with effusive support for Triggs, listing details of her “distinguished career in the law” and noting that she was “highly respected”. The statement went on to lecture us about how “personal criticism directed at her or at any judicial or quasi-judicial officer fulfilling the duties of public office as required by law is an attack on the independence and integrity of the commission and undermines confidence in our system”.


----------



## noco (26 August 2015)

Why is the rotten ETU still persisting with their lies and false propaganda about the Chinese flooding Australia with cheap Chinese Labour under the CHAFTA...They repeat it day after day on TV and the stupid naive swallow it.


http://dfat.gov.au/trade/agreements/chafta/fact-sheets/Pages/chafta-myths-versus-realities.aspx

Fr*ee Trade Agreement (ChAFTA), signed in Canberra on 17 June 2015.
First myth: Chinese companies will have unrestricted access to Chinese workers for major projects, threatening Australian jobs

Reality: FALSE

ChAFTA will not allow unrestricted access to the Australian labour market by Chinese workers. It will not allow Australian employment laws or conditions to be undermined, nor allow companies to avoid paying Australian wages by using foreign workers.

Australia’s existing visa arrangements, including the 457 visa program, will continue to be the basis for implementing Australia’s commitments on labour mobility under ChAFTA. The 457 visa program assists employers to address labour shortages by bringing in genuinely skilled workers where they cannot find an appropriately skilled Australian. ChAFTA will not remove the need for employer sponsorship under the 457 visa programme.

Through Investment Facilitation Arrangements (IFAs) made available under a separate MOU concluded alongside ChAFTA, Chinese companies making significant investments in Australia (more than $150 million in specific types of infrastructure development projects) will have increased access to skilled overseas workers when suitable local workers cannot be found.

IFAs will strengthen infrastructure development and investment, leading to the creation of jobs and increased economic prosperity for all Australians.   

IFAs will not allow unskilled or underpaid Chinese workers to be brought in to staff major projects. In fact, consistent with existing programmes, IFAs will provide certainty that investors will be able to access skilled overseas workers, under Australian employment conditions, when suitable local workers cannot be found.

Under IFAs, Australian workers will continue to be given first opportunity. Consistent with existing practice, employers will not be permitted to bring in overseas skilled workers unless there is clear evidence of a genuine labour market need, as determined by the Department of Immigration and Border Protection.*

Please take the time to read the rest of the Labor Party and the union myths.


----------



## noco (27 August 2015)

Why do I get the feeling there was dirty work behind the scenes with this Marcus Priest fellow to set Dyson Heydon up.

Priest is a leftie on the NSW Bar Association and was a political adviser to Mark Dreyfus and Robert McClelland.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...500405479?sv=d4bac15a8193b059e5e351d74f948f35

*At 5.30pm on August 12, a staff member at the NSW Bar Assoc*iation took a call from Marcus Priest, lawyer, journalist and a former senior adviser to oppos*ition legal affairs spokesman Mark Dreyfus.

Chris Winslow, the association’s publications manager, had dealt with Priest when he was atTheAustralian Financial Review and also as a staffer to Dreyfus and former attorney-general Robert McClelland.

Priest asked Winslow about a bar association alert, put out in April, about the Sir Garfield Barwick lecture — the one that had Dyson Heydon, who was conducting the politically sensitive royal commission into trade *unions, as its keynote speaker.

Priest expressed surprise that Heydon had agreed to speak at the event because of its connection to the Liberal Party and asked for a copy of the invitation.

Winslow sent an email to Priest, with the invitation *attached, at 5.50pm.

However, as he headed home that evening, Winslow thought about the conversation and alarm bells rang. Was a story was about to *appear in the media? Perhaps the lecture, which was due to have been given last night at the Castle*reagh Hotel in Sydney, would be affected?

As an officer of the bar association, Winslow felt he had an *obligation to inform the commission about a possible ambush. He emailed Jeremy Stoljar SC, the counsel assisting the royal commission, just after 7pm: “Re the Barwick lecture: Does Dyson know this is connected to the Liberal Party?”

He received a reply almost *immediately: “I’ll raise that with him.”

The Australian does not know if or when Stoljar had that conversation. But at 9.23 the next morning, before the commission opened, Heydon’s personal *assistant, Barbara Price, sent an email to the organisers of the *lecture flagging his possible withdrawal.

“If there is any possibility that the event could be described as a Liberal Party event,’’ Price wrote, “he will be unable to give the address, at least while he is in the position of royal commissioner.”

Winslow was right to suspect the media would be tipped off. Less than an hour later the story broke on Fairfax websites.

Heydon called two short *adjournments and, when it was *revealed why, all hell broke loose.

Since then, t*he former High Court judge has been a whipping boy for the unions and the Labor Party as they seek to ruin the credibility of the commission.

The issue dominated question time all last week as attacks from Dreyfus, the Labor Party and the ACTU intensified.*

Read more plus the comments.


----------



## noco (27 August 2015)

Shorten is terrified of the outcome of TURC and is now demanding Heydon's decision, due tomorrow, should be delayed.

As one commenter stated, "A drowning man will clutch at straws to save himself drowning".


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...500962884?sv=904659c03a75cbfe9daac7034b3a7080

*“This is an absolutely vital royal commission. Even someone of the stature of (former ACTU president and Labor minister) Martin Ferguson says this is an important part of cleaning up the union movement, an important part of cleaning up the Labor Party. So it must and will go on regardless of any decision that Dyson Heydon AC QC makes in the next day or so,” the Prime Minister said.”*


----------



## sptrawler (27 August 2015)

noco said:


> Shorten is terrified of the outcome of TURC and is now demanding Heydon's decision, due tomorrow, should be delayed.
> 
> As one commenter stated, "A drowning man will clutch at straws to save himself drowning".
> 
> ...




Interesting claim by Boral, I never realised the CFMEU, had so much pull on construction projects, as well as the Labor Party.

It is a bit frightening, it kind of reads like a stand over gang, not unlike the bikies in some ways.IMO

http://www.smh.com.au/business/work...ack-as-profit-jumps-48pc-20150826-gj7u9b.html

Now on the T.V in W.A there are a lot of CFMEU anti Government adverts, kind of makes sense. 

Labor, who are still at the mercy of the strong unions, are starting to look a bit shady.lol


----------



## noco (27 August 2015)

sptrawler said:


> Interesting claim by Boral, I never realised the CFMEU, had so much pull on construction projects, as well as the Labor Party.
> 
> It is a bit frightening, it kind of reads like a stand over gang, not unlike the bikies in some ways.IMO
> 
> ...




This is why the TURC must continue under Dyson Heydon to clean out the corrupt unions along with many in the Labor Party......If Heydon does decides to pull the pin, Labor and the unions may get some one worse as the Commissioner.....

I hope Heydon defies the LUG party and continues on with what he started.


----------



## Tisme (28 August 2015)

Dysan withdrew from the lecture when someone gave him the heads up there was a stink brewing..... apparently. So much for not knowing he was splashed all over the invitations and booked to give the speech.

I though jurists were supposed to be apolitical so they deliver unbiased considerations......yeah right  that''s going to happen


----------



## SirRumpole (28 August 2015)

Tisme said:


> I though jurists were supposed to be apolitical so they deliver unbiased considerations......yeah right  that''s going to happen




Judges are appointed by either the Liberal Party or the Labor Party, and neither Party is going to appoint a judge who is going to make life difficult for them.

There is no such creature as a politically unbiased judge or ex judge imo.


----------



## Tisme (28 August 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> Judges are appointed by either the Liberal Party or the Labor Party, and neither Party is going to appoint a judge who is going to make life difficult for them.
> 
> There is no such creature as a politically unbiased judge or ex judge imo.




Maybe high court and federal court judges should be appointed by the Queen?


----------



## SirRumpole (28 August 2015)

Tisme said:


> Maybe high court and federal court judges should be appointed by the Queen?




Not if Joe Hockey has his way


----------



## drsmith (28 August 2015)

Fairfax (SMH) piece on yesterday's developments including the RC's response,



> ACTU national secretary Dave Oliver wrote to the commission on Thursday, asking it to urgently disclose further emails about what prompted Mr Heydon to withdraw from the event on the day Fairfax Media reported his involvement.
> 
> The call from the ACTU chief followed a report in The Australian on Thursday that suggested counsel assisting the royal commission Jeremy Stoljar, SC, may have alerted Mr Heydon to Liberal Party links to the event, named after former High Court chief justice and Liberal MP Sir Garfield Barwick.
> 
> ...




http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...dyson-heydon-tony-abbott-20150827-gj9myc.html

My bolds.


----------



## noco (28 August 2015)

Just as I thought...This Marcus Priest and Mark Dreyfus did the dirty work behind the scenes to set Dyson Heydon up for a fall...What a cowardly lot......The LUG Party deserve all that is coming to them and I hope it all back fires on the Labor Party.

Dyson Heydon stay and continue your good work on these thugs. 


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...501812148?sv=5031dda4dfc24b90ba16fcefb4b42c63

Is* this a political stitch-up that will blow back on Labor and the unions?

Dyson Heydon has delayed until Monday his ruling on claims by unions that he ought to stand down as royal commissioner on the ground of apprehended bias.

Regardless of Heydon’s ruling, voters may make their own ruling that Labor and the unions are involved in a reprehensible stitch- up, an act of “whatever-it-takes” desperation to taint Heydon and distract voters from the work of the royal commission.

It follows from yesterday’s explosive revelation in this newspaper, by Michael Pelly, that Marcus Priest — a former staffer of Labor’s legal affairs spokesman Mark Dreyfus — kicked off the firestorm of attacks by Labor and unions against Heydon for accepting, and then declining, to give a legal lecture, the Sir Garfield Barwick address, to a group of Liberal lawyers.

Voters are entitled to ask: did Priest dig for dirt on behalf of Labor and its union paymasters? It looks that way, given Priest rang Chris Winslow, the publications manager of the NSW Bar Association, about an April alert from the association about the Sir Garfield Barwick address.

Following that 5.30pm phone call on August 12 by Dreyfus’s ex-staffer, Labor and the unions unleashed vicious attacks on Heydon.

Their desperation to destroy the royal commission would mean trying to destroy the reputation of one of Australia’s finest judges.

Waving the Barwick invitation in the air, Priest’s former employer Dreyfus demanded Heydon step down. Tony Burke labelled Heydon biased, conflicted and incompetent. Jason Clare labelled him a “bag man” under protection of parliamentary privilege. This defamation was politics at its lowest and most crude. Clare was forced to withdraw his slur.

The unions staged their own chorus of confected indignation. Dave Oliver, secretary of the ACTU, demanded the royal commission be shut down. Australian Workers Union national secretary Scott McDine voiced “no confidence” in the commission, claiming the Liberal Party had a “two-for-one” offer in Heydon running the royal commission and drumming up funds for Liberal coffers. Tony Sheldon, boss of the Transport Workers Union, demanded a refund of legal fees.

Dave Noonan, the Construction Forestry Mining and Energy Union’s national construction secretary, tried frantically to impugn the evidence given to the royal commission. He would do that. The most damaging evidence heard by the royal commission concerns the CFMEU. Evidence before the commission has seen two ACT officials from the militant CFMEU charged with assault. And that’s in addition to commission recommendations against 66 union and ex-union officials, including possible criminal charges against more CFMEU henchmen. Labor and union claims that the commission is a political witch-hunt have been obliterated by evidence.

Hence the desperation politics. Bill Shorten and his union paymasters are engaged in a bare-knuckled political cage fight to discredit Heydon and the royal commission. It’s their only hope of distracting Australians from damaging facts about a union movement that funds Labor and pulls its policy strings. Just weeks ago, after appearing before the commission, where his credibility as a witness was questioned, the Opposition Leader’s leadership was in free-fall.

Come the next election, what will voters remember? That a royal commissioner accepted, then declined, to give a legal lecture to a group of Liberal lawyers? Or will they remember the evidence of union thuggery, illegality, fraud and secret payments, including an undisclosed $40,000 to Shorten to fund his 2007 campaign?

Whatever the decision next week, voters will cast the final judgment on Labor’s frantic attempt to lynch Heydon.

*


----------



## noco (29 August 2015)

How in the hell can these thugs in the CFMEU get away with their cowardly and rogue tactics on building sites.

Dyson Heydon must finish his job and defy calls from the LUG party to stand down..... 


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...503530307?sv=ca16f960c221cd3a5e59d9f94be7f853

*Andrew Bourke fears a bleak *future of escalating intimidation by unions, meek capitulations by builders, mounting job losses, soaring costs and a stranglehold on the construction sector.

If former High Court judge Dyson Heydon’s royal commission into union corruption goes off the rails, Mr Bourke predicts small businesses such as his Site Service Group, which is being targeted by the CFMEU, will die.

As unions step up their campaign for the royal commission to be closed down over Mr Heydon’s alleged bias for accepting an invitation to speak at a Liberal Party event, Mr Bourke has elected to speak out about union conduct on Brisbane work sites. According to Mr Bourke, speaking out is a sure way to become a bigger target, but he told The Weekend Australian: “They’ll still try to destroy me if I stay quiet so I would rather speak the truth and make sure people understand the facts. There will be recriminations. But I have had enough and want to go public with the threats and intimidation by the cowardly union and their scumbag delegates and officials.

“In the middle of a royal commission, the CFMEU is crushing my small business, a traffic control company working in commercial construction.

    More: Heydon must stay: PM
    More: It’s the evidence that matters

“The union have had me sacked from five projects and stopped us winning two others. I believe we are black-banned by the union. We are a small player trying to grow, but we cannot get any work. It will be devastating if the royal commissioner is rolled over a speech to a bunch of lawyers, a speech which he didn’t even give. It is ridiculous.”

The CFMEU did not respond to a request for an interview about its conduct on Queensland building sites and its disputes with Mr Bourke.

Mr Bourke said his company faced an uphill struggle to survive because of its pledge to the union’s enemy, Grocon, to strictly manage site access and prevent trespass and disruption by the CFMEU. In an interview with The Weekend Australian and in sworn statements to Fair Work Building and Construction investigators, who are mounting a formal inquiry, Mr Bourke described the modus operandi of the CFMEU to control access to sites.

“The union delegates want control of the gate so they can manage the traffic — everyone who comes and goes — because this means they can have effective control of the whole job,” he said.

“They pressure the builder and threaten to close the site down until they get that control.’’

He said his company, which oversees security and the entry of machinery and tradesmen at sites including Grocon’s major commercial development at 480 Queen Street in Brisbane’s CBD, strictly enforces the rules, infuriating the CFMEU, which demands immediate access.

He accused the CFMEU of intimidating and bullying another building company, Devine, which he said had recently bent to the union’s will and terminated *arrangements with Mr Bourke’s business at five Brisbane sites.

“Devine kicked us to the kerb like a dirty bit of underwear on every job we had for them — it was absolutely disgraceful,’’ Mr Bourke said.

Investigators are examining whether Devine was pressured by the CFMEU on five Brisbane building sites: Vida Apartments in West End; Alex Perry Apartments in Fortitude Valley; *Westmark Project in Milton; High Street Apartments in Toowong and Mode Apartments in Newstead.

Devine’s construction general manager Mike Tucker declined an interview request. A Devine spokesman, who confirmed an FWBC probe, issued a statement from chief executive David Keir, who said the decision to terminate Mr Bourke’s company was based on “non-performance of duties and a review of rates for traffic control services”.

Mr Bourke said he was told by Devine’s managers that they were being pressured by the CFMEU to drop him and his company.

“The CFMEU then made sure we were dropped by another developer on three of its projects,” he said. “The union boasts that we are going out of business and that my guys are going to be hired by union-friendly companies. With a Labor government that the union supported in power in Queensland, the CFMEU is out of control. The builders do not want to be in bed with the union. I think a lot of the building and safety guys would like to speak out but they are frightened.

“Grocon stands up against the union but it pays a price. If more builders do what Grocon does, they could change the industry.”

Mr Bourke wants to be called to Brisbane hearings of the royal commission to tell Mr Heydon, who is weighing calls from unions for him to stand down over alleged apprehended bias, where to find CFMEU wrongdoing. He and his employees are working with Fair Work and the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission in a bid to show the CFMEU engaged in an illegal secondary boycott of his company.

At Grocon’s 480 Queen Street site in Brisbane’s CBD yesterday, Mr Bourke said as many as 200 workers had been called off the job by their union delegate about 11am for a “safety” issue — the deliberate blockage of a toilet with paper meant there was no water on the job. “They have gone home at 11am on a Friday because the toilet was sabotaged, and because they call it a safety matter they get paid for the full eight hours,” he said. “It’s a scandal. They want to hold the industry to ransom.”

He said it was “insane” that on building sites controlled by the union, he was compelled to pay his own employees $42 an hour as their base rate for handling a stop/go sign, compared with $20 an hour elsewhere. “Some are making $2000 a week in the hand to turn a stop/go bat. Who can justify that?” he said.

“Then there are the superannuation and income protection payments which must be paid to union-controlled super funds rather than ones that they choose. These problems have to be sorted out.”

*

Where is the ABC?......Why can't they expose the extremities of these rotten thugs......Of course we all know why.....It might hurt their comrades in the LUG Party.,,,What a crumby lot we have in this country now....they could not care less about the welfare of this nation.

The LUG Party are closely following the rules of the Fabian Society which is hell bent on introducing central control and they are doing it very subtly without you knowing it.


----------



## dutchie (31 August 2015)

Heydon does not give in to the scumbags.


----------



## drsmith (31 August 2015)

Dyson Heydon has dismissed the applications for him to step down.

Nobody for the ACTU was at the bar table for the ruling.


----------



## Knobby22 (31 August 2015)

drsmith said:


> Dyson Heydon has dismissed the applications for him to step down.
> 
> Nobody for the ACTU was at the bar table for the ruling.




I was wrong. I thought he would.
In any case, originally this was a bit of a fishing exercise but there are some fish! Let's get on with it now. The CFMEU are in big trouble.


----------



## orr (31 August 2015)

There's hope that Shorten's position could become untenable. Shorten being the only thing keeping Abbott's political corpse respirating.

And hope of course for  a flowering of needs based RC's ....  AWB gifts to saddam ... Iraq WMD debacle ... financial scams.... what's going on in our gulag's?  I mean $13 million per refo settled in Cambodia???????? and that just a start....


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## noco (31 August 2015)

drsmith said:


> Dyson Heydon has dismissed the applications for him to step down.
> 
> Nobody for the ACTU was at the bar table for the ruling.




You beauty

I say good on him.

The LUG Party will not be happy and will probably continue to discredit him and will attempt to take further action..

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/29387880/dyson-heydon-to-rule-on-his-future/


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## Logique (31 August 2015)

A victory for non-Orwellian Australia.



> https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/29387880/dyson-heydon-to-rule-on-his-future/
> ...Mr Heydon also found that the applicants did not explain *how there was any logical connection between their argument and the actual issues for determination* by the commission...



Mr Heydon, welcome to our world!


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## noco (31 August 2015)

The ACTU are going to keep up their vendetta against Dyson Heydon......

Where is Bill Shorten's comments....He seems to have gone into hiding.

Probably the LUGs have told him to lay low for a while.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...505710153?sv=2b9aee65358dbc3fc30e09e53a69d02b


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...489161674?sv=936217355d2e79eb36c940d49fa0876c

*The trade union royal commission has already referred 26 union and ex-union officials to law *enforcement agencies and regulators to investigate more than 50 potential breaches of criminal and civil laws — and it is coming in under *budget.

The royal commission, which The Australian can reveal had spent $28 million of its $61m budget by the end of June this year, is still investigating the Australian Workers Union over alleged *donations and sweetheart deals with employers during the stewardship of Bill Shorten and his successors.

Further evidence this week tendered to the commission in Sydney builds on a raft of allegations since hearings began last year that unions are raising millions of dollars in untaxed funds from *employers through so-called *education and training and social welfare programs and income protection schemes. The revelations could result in further referrals for criminal and civil sanctions.

However, the work of the *commission, which has already resulted in references to 11 commonwealth and state agencies — including alleged criminal charges against the construction union’s NSW head Brian Parker, Victorian secretary John Setka, and Queensland branch boss Michael Ravbar of the construction union — risks being undermined by *attacks on its commissioner, Dyson Heydon. Labor ramped up its political assault on Tony *Abbott yesterday by attacking on the floor of parliament the impartiality of the former High Court judge and claiming the trade union royal commission had been “politicised from the start”.*

Is it any wonder the LUGs want the TURC stopped....They are desperate to save their fearless leader.


----------



## Tisme (31 August 2015)

noco said:


> You beauty
> 
> I say good on him.
> 
> ...





You do realise the yardsticks he used to explain away his ineptitude will now be valid excuses for those he is investigating? He admits he doesn't read his own emails and he is not capable of sending an email, so the defense of what you don't know can't hurt who is now precedent at law.

Yes your honour I didn't read the email in its entirety so I can't be pinged for it's content.



I mean really ... who can't send an email after 25 years plus of its public domain existence.


----------



## SirRumpole (31 August 2015)

Tisme said:


> You do realise the yardsticks he used to explain away his ineptitude will now be valid excuses for those he is investigating? He admits he doesn't read his own emails and he is not capable of sending an email, so the defense of what you don't know can't hurt who is now precedent at law.
> 
> Yes your honour I didn't read the email in its entirety so I can't be pinged for it's content.
> 
> ...




Yes, Haydon's credibility as an impartial judge has been damaged. He will probably go on and deliver his report and some good will come out of it if some of the more egregious union leaders can be dealt with, but I don't believe that Bill Shorten is one of those, and the political mileage that Abbott expected to get out of this has been eradicated.


----------



## noco (31 August 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> Yes, Haydon's credibility as an impartial judge has been damaged. He will probably go on and deliver his report and some good will come out of it if some of the more egregious union leaders can be dealt with, but I don't believe that Bill Shorten is one of those, and the political mileage that Abbott expected to get out of this has been eradicated.




I guess you are hoping Shorten does not have to dealt with......We will just have to wait and see what further evidence comes out against him....I could not believe Shorten is now feeling comfortable.

The damage to Heydon is only the opinion of the LUGs.


----------



## sptrawler (31 August 2015)

The Labor Party are going to end up in tears over this.IMO

They are actually stapling themselves to the CFMEU, which will end up in tears, one way or another.IMO

Labor would have been much better adopting a more distant stance, from the issue, basically they are all in now.

Hope the cards fall well for them.


----------



## noco (31 August 2015)

sptrawler said:


> The Labor Party are going to end up in tears over this.IMO
> 
> They are actually stapling themselves to the CFMEU, which will end up in tears, one way or another.IMO
> 
> ...




+ 1...I tend to agree with you...But I think they will get trumped by the ACE of HEARTS.

The unions took a big risk in making the challenge and it is now starting to back fire on them......I believe if they take to the high court, they will only be digging a deeper hole for themselves.


----------



## Smurf1976 (31 August 2015)

OK, so we have a Royal Commission into unions. Fair enough.

But where's the Royal Commission into sweetheart deals between government and business? Oh yeah, that's right, that's what the Liberals do well so we won't be hearing anything about that... 

This country desperately needs some actual leadership rather than witch hunts and point scoring.


----------



## drsmith (31 August 2015)

Smurf1976 said:


> OK, so we have a Royal Commission into unions. Fair enough.
> 
> But where's the Royal Commission into sweetheart deals between government and business? Oh yeah, that's right, that's what the Liberals do well so we won't be hearing anything about that...
> 
> This country desperately needs some actual leadership rather than witch hunts and point scoring.



What's the point of referring to witch hunts and point scoring in the context of the TURC if you think it's fair enough ?

Are you saying it's fair enough but really think something different ?


----------



## sptrawler (31 August 2015)

Smurf1976 said:


> OK, so we have a Royal Commission into unions. Fair enough.
> 
> But where's the Royal Commission into sweetheart deals between government and business? Oh yeah, that's right, that's what the Liberals do well so we won't be hearing anything about that...
> 
> This country desperately needs some actual leadership rather than witch hunts and point scoring.




I agree with you, and believe there will be one, as soon as Labor attain office.

Which will be another breath of fresh air, it is required on both sides of politics, as people have lost faith in the institution.

Shutting it down isn't the answer, embracing it and ensuring it either proves or disproves the claims, is the required outcome.

Just agreeing with the unions, that it is a witch hunt and shutting it down, supports the belief that where there is smoke, there is fire.


----------



## overhang (31 August 2015)

sptrawler said:


> The Labor Party are going to end up in tears over this.IMO
> 
> They are actually stapling themselves to the CFMEU, which will end up in tears, one way or another.IMO
> 
> ...




I actually doubt that Labor thought he would stand down, I'd say they're quite comfortable that they now have a platform to claim the RC is a farce.  There is a good chance that the coalition will try and smear the Labor party with their union connections leading into the next election and rightly or wrongly Labor can claim the RC was a biased witch hunt that had a predetermined outcome from the beginning. Ideally of course they would have preferred he stood down but that wasn't realistic.


----------



## drsmith (31 August 2015)

The ACTU who lodged the claim in the first place didn't think he was going to stand down.

They didn't even offer the courtesy of being at the bar table for the ruling.


----------



## sptrawler (31 August 2015)

Also if the outcomes are of a criminal nature, bias can't come into it, they are either true or unfounded.


----------



## overhang (31 August 2015)

sptrawler said:


> Also if the outcomes are of a criminal nature, bias can't come into it, they are either true or unfounded.




At the end of the day if the taxpayers gain over 60 million in productivity from the finding/recommendations then all will be well, time will tell if that's the case.


----------



## sptrawler (31 August 2015)

overhang said:


> At the end of the day if the taxpayers gain over 60 million in productivity from the finding/recommendations then all will be well, time will tell if that's the case.




Who knows what the outcome will be, but there needs to be an outcome.


----------



## Smurf1976 (31 August 2015)

drsmith said:


> Are you saying it's fair enough but really think something different ?




I see it as a witch hunt motivated by political reasons rather than to fix a problem as such. That's not to say that Labor (or anyone else) would do any different, it's just how I see it.

I'm not opposed to having a Royal Commission as such, but I'd like to see governments generally be more focused on taking the country forward rather than finding fault with their opponents. If the unions weren't associated with the government's main political opponent then I doubt that this Royal Commission would be taking place. 

They'll probably find something wrong somewhere with Labor / unions just as a Labor government could find something wrong with the Coalition / big business. I'd just rather that they all focused more on actually running the country.


----------



## noco (31 August 2015)

overhang said:


> I actually doubt that Labor thought he would stand down, I'd say they're quite comfortable that they now have a platform to claim the RC is a farce.  There is a good chance that the coalition will try and smear the Labor party with their union connections leading into the next election and rightly or wrongly Labor can claim the RC was a biased witch hunt that had a predetermined outcome from the beginning. Ideally of course they would have preferred he stood down but that wasn't realistic.




Why do you claim the TURC is a farce?.......Th RC has already proved , corruption, thuggery.intimidation, bribery and extortion.

There should be no doubt in anyone's mind that the unions are closely associated with Labor and the Greens.....Labor and the Greens cannot divorce themselves of that connection.

How do you claim the TURC is a biased witch hunt?

If the LUG Party have done nothing wrong then they have nothing to fear.


----------



## overhang (31 August 2015)

noco said:


> Why do you claim the TURC is a farce?.......Th RC has already proved , corruption, thuggery.intimidation, bribery and extortion.
> 
> There should be no doubt in anyone's mind that the unions are closely associated with Labor and the Greens.....Labor and the Greens cannot divorce themselves of that connection.
> 
> ...




Because its obvious it has a political agenda, this is all about targeting the Labor party.  Shorten wont be charged with anything but the coalition will attempt to smear him all over this.  This is a 60 million dollar farce, you could spend that sort of money and find corruption, thuggery, bribery etc in just about any single industry in Australia.  They were willing to run a royal commission into pink batts that resulted in 3 deaths but wouldn't dream of having one on the failed Iraq invasion all based on botched intel that has costs us billions and many more lifes.

I do hope some good comes of this RC, I hope that the CFMEU are de-registered for a start but I wont for one minute think that Abbott didn't do this for political points.


----------



## sptrawler (31 August 2015)

Smurf1976 said:


> I see it as a witch hunt motivated by political reasons rather than to fix a problem as such. That's not to say that Labor (or anyone else) would do any different, it's just how I see it.
> 
> I'm not opposed to having a Royal Commission as such, but I'd like to see governments generally be more focused on taking the country forward rather than finding fault with their opponents. If the unions weren't associated with the government's main political opponent then I doubt that this Royal Commission would be taking place.
> 
> They'll probably find something wrong somewhere with Labor / unions just as a Labor government could find something wrong with the Coalition / big business. I'd just rather that they all focused more on actually running the country.




Don't you think you are erring on the side of caution, maybe it is because of your lack of exposure to the economic clout of unions on major infrastructure projects.

I was only involved in the early 80's and it was scary, like we are on an 8 week strike, to put in place the conditions for the next project.

I've never been on a better rate of pay, but I couldn't jump ship fast enough, it really is weird.IMO


----------



## noco (1 September 2015)

overhang said:


> Because its obvious it has a political agenda, this is all about targeting the Labor party.  Shorten wont be charged with anything but the coalition will attempt to smear him all over this.  This is a 60 million dollar farce, you could spend that sort of money and find corruption, thuggery, bribery etc in just about any single industry in Australia.  They were willing to run a royal commission into pink batts that resulted in 3 deaths but wouldn't dream of having one on the failed Iraq invasion all based on botched intel that has costs us billions and many more lifes.
> 
> I do hope some good comes of this RC, I hope that the CFMEU are de-registered for a start but I wont for one minute think that Abbott didn't do this for political points.




What have these corrupt unions cost our country over the years?

Thanks to the unions we have lost our manufacturing industries.

Thanks to the CFMEU the building industry is almost on its knees with the added cost created by this unions.

Thanks to the HSU many Mums and Dad have been ripped off.

Thanks to the AWU, workers in Chiqiuta and Cleanevent were ripped off by Bill Shorten.

If we spend $60 million on the TURC now and save say $120 million in the next 5 years, it will be money well spent.


----------



## Tisme (1 September 2015)

my only wish for inquiry is that it truly explores the relationships of unions and builder/developers.

I doubt many of you know the extent of hand in glove relationships that abound and how the builders ask the unions to make life difficult for those suppliers and sub contractors who won't lay down with dogs and fleas. In many cases, same tribe, different hats.


----------



## SirRumpole (1 September 2015)

noco said:


> If we spend $60 million on the TURC now and save say $120 million in the next 5 years, it will be money well spent.




Save $120 million ? From what ? How ?


----------



## noco (1 September 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> Save $120 million ? From what ? How ?





Perhaps if you read this link you may learn exactly what is going on with the CFMEU.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...506897719?sv=532b0731d7e851acd5125e73ad32612b

*While Michael O’Connor has left the prosecution of the royal commission to the union’s construction division, he is seen by some industry figures as arguably the most powerful individual union leader in the country. ACCI chief executive Kate Carnell told The Australian that Mr O’Connor placed outcomes for his members above the national interest and the best interests of the Labor Party. She recalled his role over a decade ago when he undermined then Labor leader Mark Latham in the 2004 election campaign with a brutal display of union power when his members cheered John Howard over the then prime minister’s support for the forestry industry.

“They take no prisoners in the interests of focusing on what it is they want — not on what is in the best interests of the nation,” Ms Carnell said. “The problem is the collateral damage doesn’t seem to concern them at all. You’d think it would be (ACTU secretary) Dave Oliver and Michael O’Connor who would be fighting for the position of most powerful and influential union leader, I would have thought.”

Ms Carnell was the National Association of Forest Industries chief executive in 2004 when Mr O’Connor attacked Mr Latham’s plan to save Tasmania’s iconic old-growth forests. Ms Carnell conceded that, while she had respect for Mr O’Connor, the campaign against the China trade deal was “getting traction”.

The CFMEU claims the China trade deal will allow Chinese workers into the country at the expense of Australians. Unions also claim the agreement will allow Chinese electricians into Australia without sufficient checks. However, National Electrical and Communications Association chief executive Suresh Manickam said that, after consultation with the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade and Mr Robb, NECA was satisfied that Chinese electricians would have to satisfy 457 visa requirements and state licensing authorities of their qualifications.*


----------



## SirRumpole (1 September 2015)

noco said:


> Perhaps if you read this link you may learn exactly what is going on with the CFMEU.
> 
> 
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...506897719?sv=532b0731d7e851acd5125e73ad32612b




I can't read that article. Where does it mention $120 million ? Or was that your estimate ?


----------



## dutchie (1 September 2015)

Note to ACTU et al

Corruption of officials is a civil *crime.*

Stealing money from any type of fund/organisation is a civil *crime.*

Bribing officials is a civil *crime.*

Threatening people with violence is a civil *crime.*

*Some* union officials are criminals.

Absolutely nothing to do with politics (other than motive)*

(* See Bill Shorten)


----------



## overhang (1 September 2015)

noco said:


> What have these corrupt unions cost our country over the years?
> 
> Thanks to the unions we have lost our manufacturing industries.
> 
> ...




I would say it accelerated the death of manufacturing but the death is inevitable due to globalisation, there are always those that are willing to work for less overseas and union influence or not we can't compete with that. 

You can't have it both ways, you can't say that because a secretary of the HSU stole money that mums and dads have been ripped off when they are working for better conditions because of the HSU who has fought for hours of work and rates of pay.

The construction industry has been a two way street, we have seen in recent times building company's and unions working in collaboration to shut out other subbies from the work for fixed prices, the whole construction industry is a bloody rort.  Like I said shut down the CFMEU for a start and then we go from there.


----------



## Ijustnewit (1 September 2015)

https://youtu.be/CiSV1GmXvo4

" Sorry son thanks to your thuggish union dad , you won't even get a look in "


----------



## noco (1 September 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> I can't read that article. Where does it mention $120 million ? Or was that your estimate ?




Rumpy, I think you are being a little ignorant when you ask about, "WHERE DOES IT MENTION $120 MILLION".

If you read it in the right context you will note I quoted  (say $120 million)....It was s figure of speech or suggestion......I could have said $240 million....You cannot possibly put a figure on what may or may not be saved without all the disruptions and turmoil created by these corrupt unions.

How much was saved on the wharf with the WHARFIES UNION when the authorities put a stop to the slow handling of containers......After that incident they went from 16 containers an hour to 26 per hour......Plenty of saving there and the same thing could happen on building sites without the interference of a corrupt CFMEU. 

This how the LUG party and the ABC operate ...pick up on something like this, twist around and exaggerate in the hope of a *GOTCHA*

They take no prisoners in the interests of focusing on what it is they want — not on what is in the best interests of the nation,” Ms Carnell said. “*The problem is the collateral damage doesn’t seem to concern them at all. You’d think it would be (ACTU secretary) Dave Oliver and Michael *O’Connor who would be fighting for the position of most powerful and influential union leader, I would have thought.”


----------



## SirRumpole (1 September 2015)

noco said:


> Rumpy, I think you are being a little ignorant when you ask about, "WHERE DOES IT MENTION $120 MILLION".
> 
> If you read it in the right context you will note I quoted  (say $120 million)....It was s figure of speech or suggestion......I could have said $240 million....You cannot possibly put a figure on what may or may not be saved without all the disruptions and turmoil created by these corrupt unions.




No, you can't put ANY figure on how much MIGHT be saved from this Commission, you might as well have said $0 million, so you are basically just talking hot air unless you can say where the savings TO THE TAXPAYER will come from and provide evidence of the basis for your estimate.


----------



## noco (1 September 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> No, you can't put ANY figure on how much MIGHT be saved from this Commission, you might as well have said $0 million, so you are basically just talking hot air unless you can say where the savings TO THE TAXPAYER will come from and provide evidence of the basis for your estimate.




I gave you an example with the wharfies and the same could happen in the building industry but you don't seem to want to accept that your comrades in the unions are not causing extra costs to builders.

You know,as it is now coming out of TURC, give money to the unions and lets give you a dummy  invoice for safety training and we will make sure your project is not interrupted with strikes and delays....Isn't that how it works?
You pay the unions fees for all your employees and we will leave you alone.


----------



## noco (1 September 2015)

I believe it is becoming abundantly clear, the unions have painted themselves into a corner and to take more legal action against the TURC commissioner will only push them further into the quagmire they already find themselves in. 


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...506901399?sv=83faa78890fb83f8ffe6925a112b3600

*Dyson Heydon has presented the unions with a very clear message: put up or shut up.

His extensive reasons for refusing to step down from the royal commission are brutal.

They start by relating how the unions botched their legal case with basic errors and conclude by highlighting divisions between the ACTU and the CFMEU. He tore apart their argument — not just on the law, but on the facts. He is daring the unions to challenge his ruling and, if they do, it would probably make his day.

The only way forward for those trying to derail the royal commission is to seek judicial review, which would mean a limited argument on the grounds that Heydon, a former judge of the High Court, had made an error of law.

Just pause and consider the implications: that would mean persuading the Federal Court that Heydon, one of the most brilliant legal minds of his generation, made an error of law in the most important and final ruling of his career knowing full well that his enemies would be crawling all over it, looking for a chink.*


----------



## noco (2 September 2015)

Paul Kelly sums up the LUG party and their fight against the TURC.

What lengths will the Labor Party and the unions go to protect these rotten corrupt unions?

As Graham Richardson stated some tine ago, "WHAT EVER IT TAKES".

I really think the unions and the Labor Party should now back down to save themselves some dignity. 



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...508285243?sv=4ea47ce0e692b9fdfe683bf7b079d7e5

*In a squalid stunt Labor has debased any claims to principle in the Dyson Heydon dispute and will now ask the Governor-General to act improperly, trash the principles of responsible government and violate the conventions of his office.

The Senate has no role and no powers in the Royal Commission on Trade Union Governance and Corruption. The recommended “address” Labor proposes from the Senate has no legal standing whatsoever. It will be rejected by the Governor-General, Sir Peter Cosgrove. This is a stunt designed to put the Senate’s imprimatur on the campaign to destroy Heydon and the royal commission.

Opposition legal affairs spokesman Mark Dreyfus said that next Monday when the Senate sits Labor will proceed with “a petition to the Governor-General to remove Dyson Heydon from this office”. On what basis? There is no finding against Heydon. There is no illegality or act of impropriety committed by him. The argument is that Labor and the unions and, perhaps a majority of the Senate, think he is biased. The evidence is that, like many judges, he agreed to talk at a party event.

Have no doubt, what is proposed is an abuse of the Senate’s power and an abuse of the Governor-General’s powers.

How desperate is the Labor Party? How far will Labor go in this campaign? What next? Perhaps a Labor delegation to Buckingham Palace given that the letters patent establishing the royal commission are issued in the name of “Elizabeth The Second” who is “Queen of Australia”.

If the Governor-General won’t intervene to protect the Construction Forestry Mining and Energy Union, then might the Queen?

This decision is a serious blunder. It reveals Labor as a party prepared to play with the idea of vice-regal sabotage merely to extract more publicity in its campaign to protect the unions.

It is extraordinary that Labor’s Senate leader, Penny Wong would venture down this path. It terminates any Labor claims to ethics and public interest in this issue.

*


----------



## noco (2 September 2015)

I listened to some of the TURC today when a loud mouth union rep named Miller was being questioned and his answers were mostly, " I CAN'T RECALL OR I DON'T REMEMBER" or would ramble on about rates for workers.

Then the commission played back a recorded telephone conversation he had with another union rep and it was quite funny, there silence for a while when suddenly his memory had a jolt.


----------



## Tisme (2 September 2015)

noco said:


> I listened to some of the TURC today when a loud mouth union rep named Miller was being questioned and his answers were mostly, " I CAN'T RECALL OR I DON'T REMEMBER" or would ramble on about rates for workers.
> 
> Then the commission played back a recorded telephone conversation he had with another union rep and it was quite funny, there silence for a while when suddenly his memory had a jolt.




The govt been wire tapping a unionist? That's a worry, imagine what they do to people who are deemed a national security risk? They're probably tapping all us here for having an opinion.


----------



## sydboy007 (3 September 2015)

Tisme said:


> The govt been wire tapping a unionist? That's a worry, imagine what they do to people who are deemed a national security risk? They're probably tapping all us here for having an opinion.




Come October technically yes.  All that metadata goodness just ready to be ashley martined


----------



## Tisme (5 September 2015)

sydboy007 said:


> Come October technically yes.  All that metadata goodness just ready to be ashley martined




Of course tracking users never used to be a major problem back in the early nineties, and no one cared because it was an open forum where people said what they wanted, self regulated and somehow managed to navigate away from the stuff they didn't like (pron, adverts, hyperbole, ...).

I can't help but think there is an insidious odium about the whole tracking via meta data. We have a govt that is attempting to censor the ABC reminiscent of the 1966 "Ban the Beatles" and trash their records hysteria...... these people (govt) are supposed to be growing the country and society, not sending it back to the good old days of Gestapo.


----------



## drsmith (5 September 2015)

ABC 730 report segment from yesterday,

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2015/s4306632.htm

It's about the CFMEU in the ACT.


----------



## noco (5 September 2015)

drsmith said:


> ABC 730 report segment from yesterday,
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2015/s4306632.htm
> 
> It's about the CFMEU in the ACT.




And Shorten and the LUG party say why do we need a TURC?

Shorten is up to his eye balls with these thugs from the CFMEU....No wonder the LUG Party want the TURC shut down?
*
Communism is not dead and buried.*


----------



## drsmith (7 September 2015)

Will Labor's attempts to remove unions royal commissioner Dyson Heydon fizz in the Senate ?



> Labor has postponed an attempt to request the removal of unions royal commissioner Dyson Heydon while it continues negotiating with the crossbench.




What exactly are they negotiating ?

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/09/07/03/39/alp-to-push-on-senate-bid-to-oust-heydon


----------



## Tisme (7 September 2015)

drsmith said:


> Will Labor's attempts to remove unions royal commissioner Dyson Heydon fizz in the Senate ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




for the numbers before they put it to the vote?


----------



## drsmith (7 September 2015)

Tisme said:


> for the numbers before they put it to the vote?



I asked what, not why.

Why is a given.


----------



## sydboy007 (8 September 2015)

noco said:


> And Shorten and the LUG party say why do we need a TURC?
> 
> Shorten is up to his eye balls with these thugs from the CFMEU....No wonder the LUG Party want the TURC shut down?
> *
> Communism is not dead and buried.*




Maybe for the same reasons Abbott argues we don't need an RC into the FIRE sector, even though new scandals seems to crop over a few times a year, where hundreds of millions, possibly billions of $$$ are involved.

Neoconservative trickle down economics ain't dead either, but the Abbott Govt seems likely to go to the next election with that as a main plank in their quest for a second term.  The poor don't drive and the rich pay too much tax.


----------



## Tisme (8 September 2015)

drsmith said:


> I asked what, not why.
> 
> Why is a given.





Oh weasel word question...my apologies....... as he quietly closes the door hoping the elephant doesn't stampede.


----------



## drsmith (8 September 2015)

Tisme said:


> Oh weasel word question...my apologies....... as he quietly closes the door hoping the elephant doesn't stampede.



If you don't like the question or otherwise find it uncomfortable, you don't have to respond.

It wasn't asked specifically of you or in response to anything you said.


----------



## IFocus (8 September 2015)

drsmith said:


> Will Labor's attempts to remove unions royal commissioner Dyson Heydon fizz in the Senate ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





For the senate to pass a motion to take to the GG to sack Heydon

The GG wouldn't do it so its all theater for the media to discredit the commission.


----------



## noco (8 September 2015)

IFocus said:


> For the senate to pass a motion to take to the GG to sack Heydon
> 
> The GG wouldn't do it so its all theater for the media to discredit the commission.





The LUGs have failed again as they could not get the numbers in the senate...What am embarrassment.

I hope they have now learned their lesson and let sleeping dogs lie....

On with the show.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...dyson-heydon-bid/story-fn59noo3-1227516862091

*The unions have claimed a moral victory despite Labor’s push to sack trade union royal commissioner Dyson Heydon failing.

Labor’s bid for the Senate to call on the Governor-General to oust Justice Heydon came to nought after key crossbenchers refused to support the motion.

The Greens and independent senators Jacqui Lambie and Glenn Lazarus sided with Labor while senators John Madigan, Bob Day, Ricky Muir and Nick Xenophon voted with the government to oppose the motion.*


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## drsmith (13 September 2015)

Dyson Heydon has sent the ACTU packing with a limp and its tail between its legs.



> The Australian Council of Trade Unions (ACTU) has decided against taking further legal action against the head of the trade union royal commission, Dyson Heydon.




http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-13/dyson-heydon-actu-not-to-take-action/6772082


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## dutchie (14 September 2015)

Labor and the CFMEU

All smear, no facts. And now no guts. (from Bolt)

Wankers


----------



## drsmith (14 September 2015)

All smear, no case and no guts full stop.



> ACTU secretary Dave Oliver told The Australian Financial Review that the peak union body had decided against legal action.
> 
> "This is a political process, not a legal process and we will treat it as such," Mr Oliver said on Sunday.
> 
> ...




http://www.afr.com/news/policy/indu...t-action-against-dyson-heydon-20150913-gjlg47


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## noco (14 September 2015)

drsmith said:


> All smear, no case and no guts full stop.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.afr.com/news/policy/indu...t-action-against-dyson-heydon-20150913-gjlg47




And more from the Australian News Paper on the humiliating back down from the LUG party.

Please read the comments as witness to the majority of voters who consider the LUG Party's attempts to close down the TURC was a desperate measure conceal the truth about Labor and their corrupt union buddies.

And where is the ABC .....not one word from them.....If it had been an Abbott embarrassment, the biased ABC and Fairfax would have been flogging it from dawn to dusk 24/7.  

*The federal government has slammed a unions’ decision to walk away from a threat to use the courts to remove trade union royal commissioner Dyson Heydon from the position, labelling the move a “humiliating concession”.

ACTU secretary Dave Oliver said yesterday it was clear the *unions’ fight was political rather than legal, with any potential legal action a lengthy affair likely to stretch beyond the commission’s end-of-year deadline.

Mr Oliver said the unions now would focus their attention on the “political” aspects of the inquiry. “This is a political process, not a legal process and we will treat it as such,” he said.

Employment Minister Eric Abetz said last night the Australian Council of Trade Unions’ move to pursue legal action against Mr Heydon had been ill-conceived from the start, and he called on Labor leader Bill Shorten to apologise to the commissioner.

“There is no doubt that if they thought they had any grounds whatsoever they would have taken court action against Dyson Heydon,” said Senator Abetz.

“These attacks on the commissioner have just been to distract *attention from what it has been doing — namely uncovering corruption, thuggery, illegality and slush funds being used in a manner that most union members would find absolutely abhorrent.

“The fact that the ACTU lawyers have taken no action now means Mr Shorten has absolutely no alternative but to apologise to the royal commissioner both for his intemperate language and denigration but also for the ill-conceived and ill-considered Senate motion that tried to inapprop*riately involve the Governor-General. It’s a humiliating concession.”

The commission, which has triggered an array of criminal charges and referrals to other agencies for the investigation of union conduct, was mired in controversy when it emerged Mr Heydon had agreed to speak at a Liberal Party fundraiser.

Unions, including the peak body ACTU, made submissions to the commission that Mr Heydon should be removed on ground of “apprehended bias”, but the commissioner rejected these last month after lengthy deliberation.

Last night Mr Shorten would not be drawn on what the ACTU’s new position meant for the commission.

“This was a matter for the *unions,” he said. “What is clear is that Tony Abbott’s royal commission has no credibility. And that’s because Tony Abbott has failed to do the right thing by the Australian people.”

Despite the ACTU backflip, Mr Oliver insisted the federal government should abandon the inquiry.

“Commissioner Heydon sat in judgment on himself and found in his own favour, and just this week media reports confirmed the commission gave special treatment to disgraced former union official Kathy Jackson, who has been found by the courts to have stolen around $1.4 million from members,” Mr Oliver said.

“This is not just about whether the commissioner is biased, it’s about the fact that the whole commission is biased.

“Tony Abbott must take *responsibility for this $60m taxpayer funded political farce and end it today.”

The commission continues its hearings today into the Queensland arm of the Construction Forestry Mining and Energy Union.

During its two-week sitting, it is expected the commission will hear claims that former Queensland Labor Party vice-president and national CFMEU president Dave Hanna *misused funds relating to the charity foundation of the former Builders *Labours Federation.

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131 comments
Noel Noel
166 people listening

Newest | Oldest | Top Comments
Ian
Ian
1 hour ago

We await the apology from Bill Shorten. The Unions and Labor and don't forget the Greens, have made a costly political error of judgement that will cost them the next election.
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Warren
Warren
1 hour ago

Actions speak louder than words. How sad that the union movement needs to spend $30 million to 'get what it wants', rather than delivering appropriate behaviour and outcomes for its membership to respect, and others to line up to join them. If they did, we would have no need for the TURC. The decline of union membership is testament to union performance on behalf of those that pay their bills, their members.
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LikeReply
Brasso
Brasso
1 hour ago

Unadulterated cowardice.
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LikeReply
David
David
1 hour ago

It's good that someone is sticking it to the corrupt elements of the trade union movement and it appears the tentacles of corruption have a very long reach.
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3JohnMarkDavidLikeReply
Alexis
Alexis
2 hours ago

Go get-um Commissioner Hayden - lock up anyone who has committed a crime.  We are sick and tired of dirty politicians and union heavy-weights getting away with extortion and fraud. Clean up the dross.  We are behind you all the way.
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5JohnMarkIanDeniseLikeReply
Steven
Steven
2 hours ago

I wonder whether Will Leigh Sales be asking Shorten if he will be apologising to the commission.........
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4JohnMarkDeniseWalLikeReply
Gerard
Gerard
2 hours ago

Dave Oliver, your objection to Dyson Heydon was not only political, it was legally legless, personal and offensive to all who subscribe to the rule of law. 

You obviously have an apprehended bias in favour of maintaining the racketeering and corrupt practices of your union mates which the trade royal commission is uncovering.
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13JohnStewartDDenisePeterLikeReply
Phil
Phil
2 hours ago

Dave Oliver and lawyer by trade Penny Wong don’t seem to understand the principles behind the ‘separation of power’!
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9DenisePeterKerryMary-LouLikeReply
Loaded Dog
Loaded Dog
1 hour ago

The are not supposed to understand anything. Wooden marionettes respond to the movement of strings by the controlling puppeteers. Others refer to it as following the party line.
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John
John
3 hours ago

What a disgraceful act by a disgraceful organisation supported by a disgraceful political leader. And now they don't even have the courage of their convictions. Lightweight thugs. 
FlagShare
18JohnAlisonStewartDDeniseLikeReply
Swee
Swee
3 hours ago

*


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## dutchie (18 September 2015)

CFMEU found guilty again, has to pay Boral $7 to 9 million for "black listing " plus court costs.

This follows CFMEU payout to Grocon of $3.5 million.

Don't you just love paying union fees.





http://www.smh.com.au/business/work...ent-in-black-ban-lawsuit-20150918-gjplex.html


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## CanOz (18 September 2015)

dutchie said:


> CFMEU found guilty again, has to pay Boral $7 to 9 million for "black listing " plus court costs.
> 
> This follows CFMEU payout to Grocon of $3.5 million.
> 
> ...




Perhaps with any luck, the CFMEU will go bankrupt.


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## Knobby22 (18 September 2015)

dutchie said:


> CFMEU found guilty again, has to pay Boral $7 to 9 million for "black listing " plus court costs.
> 
> This follows CFMEU payout to Grocon of $3.5 million.
> 
> ...




They dragged it out so long. Good on Boral for keeping up the fight.
They better not step out of line for a while or they will go under.


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## sydboy007 (18 September 2015)

dutchie said:


> CFMEU found guilty again, has to pay Boral $7 to 9 million for "black listing " plus court costs.
> 
> This follows CFMEU payout to Grocon of $3.5 million.
> 
> Don't you just love paying union fees.




Interesting how the Financial Services industry has escaped attention, especially with the repeated scandals coming out year after year of financial advisers practically stealing money from tens of thousands of clients over the years.

A NAB financial planner has been banned for 5 years for the shoddy advice provided.  Why no fine?  In fact, why allow him to ever be a financial adviser again?  Why isn't NAB facing multi million dollar fines?  It's not like NAB management weren't aware of the issues.  They chucked a Catholic church and moved the problem along.

Don't you just paying those financial advice fees and investment fees, especially when you're welfare comes in second to the financial advisors.


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## dutchie (18 September 2015)

sydboy007 said:


> Interesting how the Financial Services industry has escaped attention, especially with the repeated scandals coming out year after year of financial advisers practically stealing money from tens of thousands of clients over the years.
> 
> A NAB financial planner has been banned for 5 years for the shoddy advice provided.  Why no fine?  In fact, why allow him to ever be a financial adviser again?  Why isn't NAB facing multi million dollar fines?  It's not like NAB management weren't aware of the issues.  They chucked a Catholic church and moved the problem along.
> 
> Don't you just paying those financial advice fees and investment fees, especially when you're welfare comes in second to the financial advisors.




Don't pay union fees

Don't pay financial advisors fees


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## noco (18 September 2015)

dutchie said:


> Don't pay union fees
> 
> Don't pay financial advisors fees




Good one dutchie.


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## noco (23 September 2015)

By destroying 7 tonne of office documents, what did the CFMEU fear and try to hide?

I would say there would be one hell of a stench at the rubbish tip.

And Shorten says the TURC is just a political witch hunt...The RC is about the corrupt unions and if as he (Shorten) says he is in the clear then, he has nothing to fear so why is he so upset?

But there is more.....One of the CFMEU staff was instructed to work over time and without pay......Wow, I thought the unions wanted fairness in the work place where everybody was entitled to penalty rates but apparently not if you work for the CFMEU.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...539361612?sv=3c95cd50bee341915e0d6b9a817ebfe6
*
CFMEU accounts manager Cherie Shaw told the commission Mr Hanna had requested “petty cash” to pay the hire firm that was used to dump documents, a company that specialises in excavations, and that she should “get rid” of the invoice he had given her.

She received approval for the claim from Mr Ravbar and disposed of the invoice, the commission heard.

Ms Shaw also told the commission she had to work overtime on April 1 last year to shred phone bills and “old invoices”.

A former CFMEU worker who was then an “office junior”, Hollie Bradshaw, said she was also asked to work overtime without pay at around that time.

When she complained the following day about it, she was told that documents had been moved “to David’s property”.

Ms Bradshaw told the commission that was the reason she had been asked to work late.*


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## Knobby22 (23 September 2015)

True, pretty obvious they have something to hide.

On a side note, why did Abbott destroy all his files also? I thought they might have been useful to Turnbull.


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## MrBurns (23 September 2015)

Suppose this has already been posted, it made me laugh....



> Ex-CFMEU boss thought he would be billed for construction costs
> 
> Earlier, Mr Hanna told the royal commission he expected he would eventually be billed for tens of thousands of dollars' worth of work done to his new house.
> 
> ...




http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-...rade-union-royal-commission-destroyed/6791186


----------



## noco (23 September 2015)

Knobby22 said:


> True, pretty obvious they have something to hide.
> 
> On a side note, why did Abbott destroy all his files also? I thought they might have been useful to Turnbull.




I have not seen anything on the news about Abbott destroying files.......Do you  have a link as I am most interested.

I must admit I did not check out the Guardian News paper???????????????????


----------



## drsmith (23 September 2015)

Isn't it standard fare to break out the paper shredder after a change of administration ?

A change of administration however isn't necessarily the subject of a royal commission order.


----------



## banco (23 September 2015)

The funniest part of it is the incompetence.  They manage to involve most of the office in what is at best a very dubious undertaking. Surely if they had any brains they'd do it at night and as quietly as possible?


----------



## Tisme (24 September 2015)

MrBurns said:


> Suppose this has already been posted, it made me laugh....
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-...rade-union-royal-commission-destroyed/6791186




No all that uncommon, the biggest rorters of shareholder monies are the builder's management. Sub contractors don't get contracts unless they play ball and put fake variations in for services rendered that are not job related....apparently there's a difference between a union rep doing it and building project manager/foreman.


----------



## noco (24 September 2015)

noco said:


> By destroying 7 tonne of office documents, what did the CFMEU fear and try to hide?
> 
> I would say there would be one hell of a stench at the rubbish tip.
> 
> ...




What???????? No comments from the lefties about the CFMEU not paying penalty rates to their staff.......What hypocrites the CFMEU are.


----------



## Knobby22 (24 September 2015)

noco said:


> I have not seen anything on the news about Abbott destroying files.......Do you  have a link as I am most interested.
> 
> I must admit I did not check out the Guardian News paper???????????????????




It was Annabelle Crab in the Sunday Age.
She didn't say it was a bad thing and it was more a side note. I think its just what is normally done. 
I suppose he doesn't want to leave anything behind just in case.


----------



## noco (24 September 2015)

Knobby22 said:


> It was Annabelle Crab in the Sunday Age.
> She didn't say it was a bad thing and it was more a side note. I think its just what is normally done.
> I suppose he doesn't want to leave anything behind just in case.





But she had to do it without pay let alone being paid overtime.


----------



## noco (3 October 2015)

Who want to be in a union after being ripped off for millions of dollars of members fees?

And the LUG party has the audacity to claim it is political.

Stay tuned folks there is more to come.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...554858284?sv=ff2ce5a19ac05fbf7110bf261c5cd503

*Kathy Jackson and fellow former senior Health Service Union figures are “personally responsible” for misappropriating more than $2.4 million of members’ funds, say the senior barristers assisting the trade union royal commission.

They accuse its former star whistleblower of corruption and say a Federal Court ruling that Ms Jackson stole more than $1.4m from the HSU should be used as the basis of Com*missioner Dyson Heydon’s final report.

The submission to the commission does not recommend criminal charges be laid while a Victorian police taskforce investigation into the scandal is under way.

“This sorry history of mis*appropriation and deceit was facilitated by a culture then pervasive at the HSU, in which senior management operated with a sense of complete entitlement in respect of the use of members’ money and at the same time without being subject to proper control or super*vision,” it states.

    More: Howes called over AWU-Cleanevent*

*Unions problem won’t go away, even with Labor in opposition

    The Australian
    October 03, 2015 12:00AM

    Print
    Save for later

9
Grace Collier
Columnist
Melbourne

Australia is a high-cost, low-productivity investment destination. As business writer Robert Gottliebsen said this week: “There is now a deep fear in world markets about what is going to happen to Australia.” We are blessed with resources but cursed with a “union problem”. The mining boom is over; will we be able to change our ways?

The typical Australian worker is not a militant unionist champing at the bit to go on strike. Of our 10.3 million employees, perhaps less than 12 per cent in the private sector are union members. Typically, the average Australian worker is diligent. High property prices have us mortgaged to the hilt, and anxious about job security.

So why, then, does Australia have a union problem? Is it because our power structures are owned or unduly influenced by unions? Perhaps our union problem comes from our institutions, rather than our people. Have you ever considered how an overseas investor may see us?

Our political system is virtually a duopoly. We have two big parties and our unions own one of them. In 1891, a group of protesting shearers stood under a tree at Barcaldine and resolved to exert union control over society by forming a political party. Today, this control is felt even when the party of the unions is not in government. For example, the opposition is blocking a free-trade agreement with China.

We kid ourselves that the unions don’t own this party but merely have influence over it. The level of the influence is often a source of complaint but the ownership is always ignored. Even politicians holding positions in the party like to pretend they are in charge, but in reality these people are chess pieces, to be replaced at will. Several years back, Kevin Rudd, our prime minister at the time, was replaced when a union boss went on late-night television to announce it.

Our unions have their own retirement funds. This was organised by the party of the unions about two decades ago. At last count, in June, our retirement savings pool was worth $2 trillion. The party of the unions made retirement savings compulsory and our system favours money being funnelled into the union-owned funds. About five million workers contribute at least 9.5 per cent of their income to union-owned funds, which in turn invest in our stockmarket, buying shares in our big companies, which employ many of these workers.

Many of these companies are inefficient and unproductive with very high fixed-cost bases, thanks to poor management of enterprise bargaining, which is a concept the unions’ party introduced to Australia about two decades ago. Despite the inefficiencies, share prices in our companies are inflated by the money pouring in from the retirement funds.

Gottliebsen recently pointed out: “Across 143 listed corporations, revenue in financial 2015 grew just 0.4 per cent, while expenses rose 3.1 per cent, leading to a 32 per cent decline in profit.” The latest enterprise bargaining data shows that large companies in the private sector are still delivering wage increases of 3 per cent a year. It doesn’t look like these companies are well run.

Despite all their legislative advantages, union membership is at record lows. Union revenue, though, seems to be increasing. We allow unions to harvest income directly from the business sector.

Unions are income tax-exempt and, further, are allowed to own and operate businesses that are also income tax-exempt. Unions are allowed to use wage bargaining processes to generate income streams for themselves and their businesses. For example, a union can use a bargaining process to make an employer purchase insurance products for each one of its workers, from a union-owned company, without disclosing this to anyone.

Our infrastructure is ageing but we struggle to upgrade it. Experts estimate our infrastructure costs 30 per cent more than it should. Our biggest building companies have formed cartels with unions and we are now the most expensive construction destination on the planet. Any time a large project (road, building, mine, railway line) is built, the builder (the principal contractor) participates in organised, corporatised corruption. A union contract for the wages of employees that don’t exist yet is signed. These employees, even when they do exist, will never be employed by the principal contractor because all aspects of the project will be subcontracted out.

When the principal contractor puts the project out to tender, companies (subcontractors) that express interest are given copies of the contract. They are told they must adopt it and to price their bids taking the inflated wages into account. Their copy must be signed by the unions or they will not work on the project.

The unions often demand to be “looked after” in exchange for their signature and employees of the subcontractor are signed up as union members without their knowledge or consent.

Right now, we are having a royal commission into union corruption and these cartels are being dissected. Several people have been arrested, yet the unions refuse to recognise the royal commission. They keep demanding it be shut down. Most of us think that unions should pay tax and be subject to the same laws as the rest of us, but this concept incenses them.

Now Australia has a new Prime Minister with a track record in commerce. This week, the unions were granted an audience with him to share their ideas about how Australia’s many problems might be solved. You have to laugh.*


----------



## SirRumpole (3 October 2015)

noco said:


> Who want to be in a union after being ripped off for millions of dollars of members fees?
> 
> And the LUG party has the audacity to claim it is political.




The whole thing *is* political.

What the union leaders are doing (reprehensible though it is) is no different to company executives ripping off shareholders (and taxpayers) with over inflated pay packets, retirement lump sums even when they stuff up, cars, planes, entertainment expenses, free shares and the like even as their companies go down the drain.

Add that lot up and the very few unionists who do benefit are chicken feed by comparison.


----------



## noco (3 October 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> The whole thing *is* political.
> 
> What the union leaders are doing (reprehensible though it is) is no different to company executives ripping off shareholders (and taxpayers) with over inflated pay packets, retirement lump sums even when they stuff up, cars, planes, entertainment expenses, free shares and the like even as their companies go down the drain.
> 
> Add that lot up and the very few unionists who do benefit are chicken feed by comparison.




It is a pity the unions did not go down the drain...The country would would have been far better off without them over the past 60 years......They have stuffed this country well and truly.

The unions have properties and income bearing investments and don't pay taxes. What a rort.


----------



## noco (5 October 2015)

I don't think barnacle Bill is quite out of the woods yet.......He may still be asked to answers more questions.


http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...rilled_on_strange_donation_to_shortens_union/

* Labor leader Bill Shorten could soon be in even deeper strife:

    Eight executives from construction giant Thiess John Holland have been called to give evidence to the Royal Commission into Union Corruption over a controversial mid 2000s deal with Bill Shorten…

    Other notable witnesses include Ted Lockyer whose company, Unibuilt, bankrolled Mr Shorten’s entry into parliament through an in-kind donation of a campaign manager, Lance Wilson…

    The first two days of the AWU hearings starting 12 October will be on Thiess John Holland and likely focus on $300,000 in payments to the AWU as part of a deal over the $2.5 billion EastLink project.

    In June, Fairfax Media revealed payments by Thiess John Holland to the AWU after a ground-breaking workplace agreement that cut standard industry conditions established by rival, the CFMEU, and delivered savings of as much as $100 million to the builder…

    Mr Shorten was questioned in the royal commission in July about the payments with counsel assisting Jeremy Stoljar asked the opposition leader: “Do you say that you had discussions with Mr Sasse or, indeed, anyone else during those negotiations about a proposal pursuant to which an amount of $100,000 a year plus GST would be paid at any stage?”

    Mr Shorten told the commission he did not “particularly remember” such discussions, later refining his evidence to acknowledge he may have raised the idea of the AWU providing training “and the like”. *


----------



## sptrawler (6 October 2015)

I'm not saying whether, it is right or wrong, but there are some who are saying  "the union has sold them down the river".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-06/coles-employee-takes-legal-action-over-union-deal/6830818

It depends where you sit, as to whether it is a good deal, or a crap deal.

As so many things in life are.lol


----------



## Tisme (7 October 2015)

sptrawler said:


> I'm not saying whether, it is right or wrong, but there are some who are saying  "the union has sold them down the river".
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-06/coles-employee-takes-legal-action-over-union-deal/6830818
> 
> ...




I think for some workers it's a matter of being the last artisans of the horse and buggy whip industry before the advent of cars.... they just can't justify their worth and are flogging a dead horse (boom boom )

I seem to recall the union vanguarded protection of the supermarket employees when the big two started to replace staff with self service machines seven or more years back? Fortunately people started thieving, the machines kept throwing wobblies and the run in run out shoppers increased the queues to the point where people had to be re-employed to increase efficiency as the robots' trades assistants.


----------



## noco (12 October 2015)

I don't know how barnacle Bill will get out of this one.......dodgy invoices set up by Bill himself......Bill was up to his eyeballs in corruption as more evidence comes to light. 

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ith-bill-shorten/story-fn59noo3-1227566064681

*A former senior executive of construction giant joint venture Thiess John-Holland has told the royal commission into union corruption he directly negotiated a controversial side deal with now opposition leader Bill Shorten.

Former John-Holland senior executive Stephen Sasse.

Former John-Holland senior executive Stephen Sasse has told the commission he negotiated with Mr Shorten – then Australian Worker’s Union national secretary – over the construction group hiring an AWU representative at a cost of $100,000 a year.

Mr Sasse said the arrangement, which was to span three years during the construction of the Melbourne’s $2.5 billion East Link project, was unusual but he felt it important to prevent industrial action by the AWU which could be very damaging to the project.

“Normally I would have not countered the suggestion for a moment,” Mr Sass said yesterday.

“We had an AWU-only project … if they had decided to make their presence felt it could have cause enormous (problems).”

The AWU has claimed $300,000 of payments it received from Thiess John Holland were in relation to “training” and “safety” issues.

The commission pointed to the payments yesterday and said they had not been recorded as paying for the employment of an AWU staffer.

When asked whether he thought the related invoices were “bogus”, Mr Sasse responded: “I fear so”.

Earlier today lawyers for Mr Shorten asked to obtain detailed information about earlier correspondence between the commission and Mr Sasse.

That request was rejected by the commission.

In a press conference this morning Labor employment and workplace relations spokesman Brendan O’Connor again attacked the commission.

“We’ve cooperated with the Commission all along, notwithstanding the very grave reservations we have about the parameters of the Commission, about the motivations of that Commission, about the conduct of it,” Mr O’Connor said.

“We would have to say any fair minded person watching the procedure and the conduct of the Commission would have to conclude it is biased, it has acted prejudicially, and it is politically motivated.”

*


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## Tisme (16 October 2015)

So I see that at least one of the contentious deals done by Shorten was actually umpired by a High Court judge .....whoops that's kinda embarrassing for the witchhunt


----------



## noco (18 October 2015)

The longer this TURC goes on the noose around Bill Shortens neck is becoming tighter...His corrupt past is finally
catching up with him....How the Labor Party will dispose of him will be difficult with the new rules put in place by Rudd.

Interesting times ahead for Labor with Shortens popularity down to under 19 %.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...572160451?sv=4be319a82bb5dd2d382f8d999f299b07

Bill Shorten’s trade union past a growing threat

    The Australian
    October 17, 2015 12:00AM



*Bill Shorten’s past is catching up with him at such a fast rate that it is overwhelming his political present and future.

When Malcolm Turnbull replaced the highly unpopular Tony Abbott as prime minister last month, political commentators wrote off Shorten’s chances of winning power for Labor at next year’s federal election.

Senior party figures privately agreed, even if they adopted a wait-and-see approach.

It now looks as if Dyson Heydon’s royal commission into union corruption will finish off Shorten — sooner rather than later.

The mass of material erupting into the public domain about Shorten’s wheeler-dealer days as head of the Australian Workers Union, courtesy of evidence to the commission, fits a compelling narrative that is very bad news for the man who has dreamed of becoming prime minister since his youth.

Shorten’s repeated defence — that he was distant in those union days from negotiating confidential “side deals” to enterprise wage agreements that brought in huge sums of employer cash to his union — looks hollow.*


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## SirRumpole (19 October 2015)

Maybe it's time for some generational change in the Labor party.

Shorten is looking more and more like a shot duck.

Maybe time for a Mark Butler, Jason Clare or Chris Bowen to take up the leadership.

FFS not Tanya though.


----------



## Tisme (19 October 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> Maybe it's time for some generational change in the Labor party.
> 
> Shorten is looking more and more like a shot duck.
> 
> ...




God help us if Tanya gets the nod and the election vote goes along gender lines !!!  She'll make it compulsory to be gay.

Something in the job as ALP leader must make them a little dumber. I remember, for example, how well Mark Latham would perform in his regular spot along with Chris Pyne on Lateline; he gets the captain's cap and he becomes a handshake nut job.  Kevin stunned us all when he skewered himself with the mining tax announcement, Gillard made the mistake overtly of confusing Abbott for a misogamist instead of misanthropist.... and now Shorten is going after Kevin Rudd's poorer stable mate Malcolm "Chauncey Gardiner" Turnbull for having a quid.


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## noco (20 October 2015)

barnacle Bill : the workers friend or foe?

Did he really have his heart with the workers of Clean Event and Chiquita or his head with funds for the AWU and Labor?

It certainly was not with the former as evidence proves. 


http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/..._of_those_dirty_deals_made_by_shortens_union/

*Bill Shorten is probably finished after this astonishing evidence:

    Cleaners working in low-paid jobs were not told of an agreement between a union and their employer that inflated the union’s membership numbers but cut their wages, the trade unions royal commission has heard.

    The Australian Workers’ Union (AWU) struck a deal with major cleaning contractor Cleanevent in 2010 to keep casual cleaners on lower rates of pay and save the company $1.5 million in salary costs, the commission heard on Monday. In return, Cleanevent would pay the AWU $25,000 a year as membership fees for casual cleaners.

    The Cleanevent senior executive who gave final sign-off on the agreement, Julianne Page, at first told the commission she could not explain why an email from the company’s head of HR said the union would not agree to having a trade-off for lower wages listed in the same document as a payment for membership.

    In a May, 2010 email to Ms Page, HR executive Michael Robinson wrote: ‘It would be crazy for the union to put that down on a page and to be honest I wouldn’t feel happy with it being on the same document either.’

    Ms Page told the court she supposed it ‘would look bad for the union’.*

*‘It would look like it was some sort of payoff,’ she said… *


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## Tisme (21 October 2015)

Someone just spammed a friend with this gem, which I would think is mandatory reading for you Noco:




> "*Australia's Secret War*
> 
> by Hal Colbatch
> 
> ...


----------



## IFocus (22 October 2015)

Worth a read good article from Stephen Long




> > While the Trade Union Royal Commission has raised legitimate concerns about union governance, it's extraordinary how weak some of the evidence is and how willing the media is to ignore counter-narratives, writes Stephen Long.






> He suffered a better fate in the ACT Magistrates Court on Monday: it threw out absurd criminal charges the Australian Federal Police had pursued against Lomax on behalf of the Trade Union Royal Commission.
> 
> *Lomax's "crime" was to seek better pay and conditions for workers under an enterprise agreement with their employer.
> *
> ...







> Somewhat apologetically, the ACT Director of Public Prosecutions wrote to Lomax's lawyers this month saying it would "offer no evidence" when the case went to court - conceding, in effect, there was no case to answer.
> 
> *A waste of taxpayers' money, a waste of time, and an extraordinary overreach by the AFP and Dyson Heydon's royal commission.*









http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-22/long-why-is-no-one-questioning-the-turc-narrative/6868102


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## Tisme (23 October 2015)

IFocus said:


> Worth a read good article from Stephen Long




Good luck getting the fawning Bolt lovers to read that. To start with it probably has some highfalutin two syllable words smattered withing its text ... that's gotta be a challenge for some. 

I can't stand the way I've been manhandled by union reps, but I can still see a political stunt when I see one and this is a beaut.


----------



## SirRumpole (23 October 2015)

Tisme said:


> Good luck getting the fawning Bolt lovers to read that. To start with it probably has some highfalutin two syllable words smattered withing its text ... that's gotta be a challenge for some.
> 
> I can't stand the way I've been manhandled by union reps, but I can still see a political stunt when I see one and this is a beaut.




Anyone who has done anything in life before entering politics would have something that they would prefer was not made public, even if it's trivial it could be taken the wrong way.

The RC is certainly a stunt, but that doesn't mean nothing good will come out of it if a few union standover merchants can be put away. 

Gillard and Shorten haven't been shown to have done any worse than most in business or the union movement, and if you are going to prevent everyone with a life experience outside Parliament sitting in that place then we might as well clone Wyatt Roy 150 times and get wet behind the ears neophytes to run the place.


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## IFocus (24 October 2015)

Its really interesting as everyone just accepts that its just a political attack process the passing over the fact many of those companies held in high esteem as commission witnesses owe $100,000s to workers not to mention failed work place safety systems that injure, maim and kill workers on the job.

Really puts the perverted Abbott government politics into perspective.


----------



## noco (5 November 2015)

And the Lug Party say the TURC is just a political witch hunt.


http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...|heading|homepage|homepage&itmt=1446672480973



*From yesterday’s hearing of the royal commission into union corruption that the ACTU tried to shut down and that Labor tried to shout down:

    Lavish “personal” spending on National Union of Workers credit cards — including visits to dating websites and a tattoo — has been alleged at the trade union royal commission amid claims powerful NSW branch boss Derrick Belan used members’ funds “to pay his bills”.

    Union corporate credit cards in Mr Belan’s name were used to buy holidays, jewellery, bed linen, skateboards, sporting events and an assortment of other items worth at least $50,000 between 2009 and 2015, the inquiry heard yesterday.

    It was also alleged Mr Belan transferred money to his niece, union book keeper Danielle O’Brien, by making cash payments to her PayPal account from his union credit card.

    Ms O’Brien, who tearfully admitted to her own spending of thousands of dollars of union funds on toys, holidays, furniture and other “non-union” items, told the inquiry she used the payments from Mr Belan “mostly to pay his bills”.

Judith Sloan:

    Labor politicians have three response*s to the proceedings of the Royal Commission into Trade Union Governance and Corrupt*ion: it is a political exercise that should be ignored; there will be no running commentary on it; and there are just a very few bad apples* in the union movement.

    The last of these assertions — there are just a few bad union offic*ials, with the vast majority being honest and hardworking — is looking a bit thin.

    To be sure, a concession is made that the behaviour of Mich*ael Williamson, Craig Thomson and Kathy Jackson, all officials of the Health Services Union, was a bit on the nose. But they are the exception.

    The trouble is that many of the activities of the union officials review*ed by the royal commission look dubious, secretive, immoral and possibly illegal.

    And bear in mind that the terms of reference restricted the commission to considering only a handful of unions.

*


----------



## Tisme (5 November 2015)

noco said:


> And the Lug Party say the TURC is just a political witch hunt.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




There are no terms of reference, but there is letters patent and paragraph (C) does say that the commission can have a crack at anyone or thing that has any, even tenuous dealings with (B) which is the five unions mentioned: AWU, CFMEU, CEPU, HSU, TWU.

They have open slather on the smoking gun target which is rightly or wrongly Bill Shorten. The rest could have been handled by the police for much cheaper than spending millions of our taxpayer monies a day to catch $50k over 5 years, which may or may not be an FBT issue.


----------



## noco (7 December 2015)

More rotten eggs have been found in the CFMEU...Two have been charged with black mail.

And after Parliament rises for the year, Bill Shorten says I think we have a problem with the union movement and it is time to clean it up......More loose words and balmy rhetoric. 


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...-for-two-victorian-cfmeu-leaders/story-fn59no

*Two of Australia’s most powerful construction unionists have been charged with blackmail as a year-long investigation into Victorian CFMEU state secretary John Setka and his deputy, Shaun Reardon, arising from the trade union royal commission, culminated in dramatic arrests.

The arrests yesterday morning of Mr Setka and Mr Reardon for allegedly blackmailing concreting firm Boral during a protracted *industrial war coincided with Bill Shorten unveiling measures aimed at “deterring and detecting corruption” in trade unions. Pre-empting royal commissioner Dyson Heydon’s final report to the Governor-General this month and seeking to address damning allegations of fraud in the Nat*ional Union of Workers, the *Opposition Leader pledged to bolster penalties for officials and *auditors engaged in wrongdoing.

He also promised to extend the Australian Securities & Investments Commission’s remit to regulate “serious” breaches by union officials to build “transparency and accountability” in unions, should Labor win government. “Recent revelations of theft and the flagrant misuse of union members’ money by a small number of union officials are utterly unacceptable and require a tough, fair and effective response,” Mr Shorten said.

The reforms were branded “hollow” by Master Builders Australia chief executive Wilhelm Harnisch, while Employment Minister Michaelia Cash claimed the announcement was a “stunt”.

Police have spent the past year building a case against Mr Setka and Mr Reardon for the alleged blackmail of Boral during the Construction Forestry Mining and Energy Union’s long dispute with construction giant Grocon.

The CFMEU complained of “overkill” and “theatrics” yesterday after federal and Victorian state police from the Heracles taskforce swooped on Mr Setka while he was driving, arresting him in front of his children, aged three and two.

Mr Reardon was arrested at his home in Ocean Drive, near Geelong, and taken to Melbourne to be charged.

Mr Setka, 51, and Mr Reardon, 47, were bailed yesterday after about two hours in police custody and will appear in Melbourne Magistrates’ Court tomorrow, where they will plead not guilty.

Peter Head, general manager at Boral Concrete, Southern Region, and company official Paul Dalton testified at the royal commission that Mr Setka and Mr Reardon warned at a meeting in 2013 that the CFMEU would continue to escalate a black ban against the company if it did not block supplies to Grocon.

“By making that demand, Mr Setka may have committed the criminal offence of blackmail, ” Mr Heydon, the royal commissioner, said in his interim report in *December last year. “Mr Reardon also may have committed the offence of blackmail or may have aided and abetted Mr Setka and may be liable as an accessory.”

Mr Head told the royal commission that Mr Setka said “words to the effect … ‘the CFMEU is at war with Grocon’, and ‘if you want to starve the enemy, you cut their supply lines’ ”.

Mr Setka also allegedly said “all wars end and once peace is established the CFMEU will be at the table to divide up the spoils ... The CFMEU will decide who gets what”.

Mr Heydon said Mr Setka was also possibly guilty of coercion under industrial laws.

Australian Federal Police sources said it took a year to make sure the evidence was in an “admissible” form.

The CFMEU has this year paid $9 million to Boral and $3.55m to Grocon to settle lawsuits.

Mr Shorten yesterday denied the commission had forced his hand, claiming the measures would help ensure “unions remain strong and modern”. “Labor has identified a *problem and we’re separating it from the politics, unlike the *Abbott-Turnbull government,” he said, promising higher penalties for “egregious” conduct by officials and auditors and $4.5m to the Fair Work Commission.

Senator Cash said: “The Labor Party has waited until parliament has risen for the year to announce a half-baked attempt to clean up the union movement.”

She called for Labor to back “vital” legislation proposed by the government, the Registered Organisations Act, and the reinstatement of the building *industry watchdog, the Australian Building and Construction *Commission.

Senator Cash said the government would await Mr Heydon’s report before deciding on its own reforms “to further reform and strengthen union governance”.

Labor also pledged to reduce the disclosure threshold for political donations from $13,000 to $1000 and extend whistleblower protection

“At the core of the Liberals and their political ideology is a desire to destroy the ability of unions to *effectively represent workers, making it easier to rip away pay and conditions like penalty rates,” Mr Shorten said.

Mr Harnisch said he welcomed the “overarching statement” of Labor’s reforms, but added that “unless the ALP commits itself to dealing with the culture of bullying and intimidation, then the building industry look at these proposals as tokenism”.

*


----------



## noco (7 December 2015)

More weasel words from Labor's Michelle Rowlands about those bad bad unions.



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...in-union-crackdown/story-fn59niix-12276363503

*Labor has challenged Malcolm Turnbull to expose the identities of hundreds of Coalition donors as part of a compromise deal to crack down on union misconduct.

The opposition has proposed putting the financial regulator ASIC in charge of registered organisations and exposing unions to the same transparency as corporations, backed up by tougher civil penalties and stronger safeguards for whistleblowers.

The Coalition is also urged to shine a light on all parties’ donors by dropping the disclosure threshold for political donations from $13,000 to $1000.

Michelle Rowland, the opposition small business spokeswoman, said the Labor Party recognised the need to crack down on union misconduct.

    More: Fair Work boss on extended leave
    More: Charges for CFMEU leaders

“We’ve always said that there is no room for any criminal activity, or any misconduct, or any misuse of union member’s funds at any time. We didn’t need a Royal Commission to be able to tell us that and to define Labor’s policy in this area,” Ms Rowland told Sky News.

“We put this challenge to Malcolm Turnbull: we are putting forward a package to ensure that we have greater transparency and oversight, not only of trade unions, but also on the entire system of donations.

“It’s a test for Malcolm Turnbull to see if he will agree to decrease that threshold to $1000 and we will see whether or not he will put his money where his mouth is.”

In 2005-06, when the Howard government raised the disclosure threshold from $1500 to $10,000, the number of disclosed donors plummeted from 1441 to 395. The threshold rises each year in line with inflation and is now $13,000.

Ms Rowland refused to support reintroducing the Howard-era building industry watchdog, the Australian Building and Construction Commission, which she said was “purely designed by the government for political purposes”.

“We want this to become a whole-of-industry, whole-of-economy solution,” she said.

“We are very much committed in a most objective manner to achieving the best outcome in this area, not just a short-term political gain as the Liberals have always sought to do in this area.”

Employment Minister Michaelia Cash said the Australian public “will not be fooled” by Labor’s attempt to appear as they cared about union misconduct.

“Just hours after the arrest of senior CFMEU officials on serious blackmail charges in Melbourne, the Labor Party has released a suspiciously timed policy that contradicts its long-held position that there is not an endemic problem within sections of the union movement in Australia,” she said.

“Knowing that the Heydon royal commission final report will be released this month, and the fact that the parliament has risen for the year, he is attempting to avoid further embarrassment by pretending at the 11th hour to be concerned about the evidence the royal commission has uncovered.

“Australians will look at what Mr Shorten is now saying compared to what he has done and will deduce that Mr Shorten and Labor have no credibility when it comes to the governance of registered organisations.”

Senator Cash said the government’s proposals to improve trade union governance would be informed by the royal commission’s recommendations.

Brett Hogan, director of energy and innovation policy at the Institute of Public Affairs, a free-market think tank, said the Labor plans lacked “credibility”.

“Given that Labor has consistently refused to support the trade union royal commission and the federal government’s limited workplace relations reform measures, it is difficult to take this new commitment seriously,” Mr Hogan said.

“In 2007, Labor (under Kevin Rudd) said all the right things about the work of the Australian Building and Construction Commission and the need for a ‘tough cop on the beat’ but it gradually released the air from the tyres when elected to government.

“If Labor has had a genuine change of heart, then it should support the Registered Organisations legislation already in the parliament so that the reform process can start immediately, and commit to boosting these laws on election to government.”
*


----------



## noco (30 December 2015)

Bill Shorten may not be out of the woods after all....Cesar Melhem may uncover some dirty washing Billy left behind.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...bill-shorten/news-story/4ee92109ea6850fc0605b

*Cesar Melhem is Bill Shorten’s danger man.

He knows how all the deals were done when Mr Shorten was running the Australian Workers Union and why they were structured the way they were.

Having Mr Melhem in a Royal Commission witness box is not a good outcome for Mr Shorten.

When Mr Shorten was Victorian secretary of the AWU, Mr Melhem was his deputy.

Mr Melhem took over that position in 2006 so Mr Shorten, then national secretary, could spend more time focusing on his bid to enter federal parliament.

It is clear from evidence before the Royal Commission that both the culture of the AWU and its modus operandi for doing deals had been operating before Mr Melhem took over — that is, when Mr Shorten ran the union.

There were two major dynamics in the AWU at that time — firstly, Bill Shorten was making his run for Canberra.

The Royal Commission has found that the AWU did a number of deals under which companies paid the union fees for members — sometimes those members did not even know they had been signed up.

These signings swelled the number of members of the AWU and gave Mr Shorten more delegates, and therefore more political clout, inside the ALP.

And secondly, the AWU was in a knockdown battle for members with the CFMEU.

Yesterday, with Mr Melhem back in the witness stand, the range of highly dubious deals done by the AWU in those years was showcased again.

Major companies were paying the union large amounts of money for things which were not what the invoices said they were for.

Companies paid the AWU money for “research grants” and “training”, much of which did not happen.

One of the more creative people in the AWU even came up with “research grant for attracting employees to the civil construction industry”.

Construction giant Thiess John Holland paid thousands of dollars for advertisements in the union’s magazine, The Australian Worker, which never appeared.

Counsel assisting the commission, Jeremy Stoljar, SC, yesterday presented Mr Melhem with a bundle of the magazines from the time — and virtually none of the advertisements that had been invoiced for, and paid for, had appeared.

Mr Stoljar: “There was no advertising in the Australian Worker Magazine, the subject of this invoice, and the purpose of this invoice was to disguise the true reason?”

Mr Melhem: “No, I don’t accept that. The invoice was sent, the company had paid the invoice, and in relation to what advertising actually took place in the actual Worker (magazine) was something between the national office and Thiess John Holland. I was not involved in that part.”

Later, Mr Stoljar was more blunt: “They’re false invoices aren’t they.”*


----------



## noco (1 January 2016)

Ah yes, brotherly love is wonderful but in Brenden O'Connor's case of defending his brother Michael  and the CFMEU he is barking up the wrong tree.......They might be able to run, duck and weave but they will never be able to hide from the facts of the CFMEU bribery, thuggery, intimidation and extortion which is evident in the TURC.....It is all a political witch hunt is the cry from Brenden and so be it if a past trade union secretary or president is caught up in the web....stiff bickies....They must now all pay the price who ever they are.  


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...z/news-story/83173d8d29ce95bd6995ffada674c857

*Labor’s workplace relations spokesman Brendan O’Connor has been accused of “running lines on behalf of his brother”, the militant construction union leader *Michael O’Connor, as he delivered scorching criticism of Royal Commissioner Dyson Heydon yesterday.

The shadow employment minister’s comments that Mr Heydon’s six-volume report on union governance and corruption was akin to something “written by a B-grade subeditor of a sleazy tabloid” prompted Employment Minister Michaelia Cash to declare Mr O’Connor was “perpetuating a deliberate and malicious smear campaign”.

Senator Cash said Mr O’Connor and his brother Michael, who was crucial in encouraging the Senate crossbench to vote down the Coalition’s bill to restore the powerful Australian Building and Construction Commission last year, “continue to downplay the significance of the problem the building and construction industry faces”.

“The Labor Party continues to deny what is now undeniable,” Senator Cash said. “Labor and their union bosses would better serve their members by taking the report seriously and stop defending the indefensible”.

Mr Heydon’s report referred dozens of Construction Forestry Mining and Energy Union officials to criminal and civil agencies.

Defending the CFMEU’s millions in donations to the Labor Party on national radio yesterday, Mr O’Connor said: “We believe that anyone who’s broken the law should be dealt with appropriately, but to suggest because there may be individuals in an organisation (that) somehow that organisation is systemically corrupt, it does not hold water.”

Former employment minister Eric Abetz, who campaigned for an inquiry into union corruption with Tony Abbott ahead of the 2013 election, said Mr O’Connor’s attack on Mr Heydon, “a legal intellect and wordsmith beyond comparison, shows the climate of desperation in which the Labor Party now finds itself operating in”.

Senator Abetz said Mr O’Connor was presumably doing his brother’s bidding: “He’s running these lines on behalf of his brother, one assumes ... it’s the familial relationship that a lot of people pretend doesn’t exist,” Senator Abetz said. “This is a sign of a Labor Party desperate to retain its fiefdom of union … it’s got nothing to do with the national interest.

“They seek to besmirch a man who has devoted his life to the rule of law and the pursuit of law; he has an excellent reputation, he’s held in excellent high regard, it’s just a pity that at this stage of his career he should be subjected to such utterly personal vitriol in an attempt to overcome the evidence that ... the Labor Party is more interested in power, influence and money than the interest of workers.” The relationship between Labor and the unions was, Senator Abetz added, “too close to home”.

It’s understood the Coalition intends to continue campaigning on what some describe as the “unhealthy relationship” between the unions and the Australian Labor Party.

Mr O’Connor’s office declined to comment on Senator Cash and Senator Abetz’s comments.

*


----------



## Tisme (3 January 2016)

Well after spending lots of taxpayer monies on themselves, the commission was a the predicted fizzog.

It would have been much cheaper to rehash the various conservative parties scare campaigns from 1930's through to the 1960's. Same drivel, but falling on the DILLIIGAF ears of the XY and Millennium generations who only understand "likes".


----------



## SirRumpole (3 January 2016)

Tisme said:


> Well after spending lots of taxpayer monies on themselves, the commission was a the predicted fizzog.
> 
> It would have been much cheaper to rehash the various conservative parties scare campaigns from 1930's through to the 1960's. Same drivel, but falling on the DILLIIGAF ears of the XY and Millennium generations who only understand "likes".




Ah for the days when a Tory only had to utter the words "Communists and Socialists" to be guaranteed election wins.


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## Smurf1976 (3 January 2016)

> It’s understood the Coalition intends to continue campaigning on what some describe as the “unhealthy relationship” between the unions and the Australian Labor Party.




Now let's have a Royal Commission into Coalition relationships with big business.

All above board of course, just like the one into unions was, and of course the Coalition will have nothing to hide here so will be more than happy to go ahead with such an idea so as to remove any doubt.


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## noco (3 January 2016)

Is it any wonder the unions are losing members hand over fist?....Ah yes the 'WORKERS FRIENDS"...I think not....It is all about fillings the coffers of the unions in which ever way they can whether by fair or foul means.

Judith Sloan sums up the unions with the tardy way they go about business.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...e/news-story/f6e991fb81116f2c7d2ffc398e3d0555

*You know the spin. Bill Shorten has been trotting it out over the past few years. Something along the lines: “I have represented working men and women my whole professional life. I can assure you that the workers covered by the enterprise agreements negotiated by my union have always been better off.”

The fact that this last sentence is not true doesn’t seem to concern him or his advisers. Just keep repeating the same lines and hope no one notices. What are a few secret side payments, false invoices and phantom members between friends? And getting a company to pay for your electoral officer (and calling him something else), then failing to disclose the arrangement — it’s just part of standing up for working men and women.

Reading the final report of the trade union royal commission, Shorten must consider himself a lucky man. His successor at the Australian Workers Union, Cesar Melhem, is singled out on many occasions; it is recommended that he be referred for prosecution for various civil and criminal offences.

But here’s the rub: the misconduct and potentially illegal behaviour of Melhem is connected with a number of deals that Shorten had initiated. Shorten may not have been responsible for the final details, but he knew the broad *parameters of the arrangements that involved secretly dudding the workers but benefiting the union.

If I were Melhem, I would be feeling more than a bit miffed. His reputation and career are in tatters. There is a real possibility Melhem may decide to rope Shorten into his defence — it was him, not me — although the solidarity of the bruvvers could hold firm.

But the real story of the *commission’s final report is the combined impact of the recommendations on destroying the current business model of the trade unions and, with it, the steady and substantial flow of funds to the Australian Labor Party.

We only need look at the figures to realise that the income from members’ dues is now only a small (and falling) part of the total income of many unions. We know that in 1975 trade unions in Australia employed about 2000 officials to service three million members. There are now 4000 officials for about 1.6 million members. (This ratio of officials to members is five times that in Britain.)*


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## noco (17 March 2016)

And the Labor Party says it is just a political stunt by the Liberal National Party.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...s/news-story/26f170f622f147b7cfb0ed99d36b5f3d

*The number of militant construction unionists facing prosecution for allegedly wreaking havoc on the nation’s building sites has soared to 100, as Malcolm Turnbull places industrial lawlessness at the heart of his election campaign.

The Construction Forestry Mining and Energy Union, its state branches and officials have also been fined a total of $7 million for industrial breaches which have been dealt with by the courts since 2002 after the Cole royal commission.

The Australian can reveal the Fair Work Building and Construction agency has launched action against 100 CFMEU officials and delegates who are before the courts, accused of more than 1000 industrial breaches.

The allegations include coercion, unlawful industrial action, intimidation and bullying and right-of-entry breaches.*


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## Tisme (17 March 2016)

noco said:


> And the Labor Party says it is just a political stunt by the Liberal National Party.




I think that is answered in your post "as Malcolm Turnbull places industrial lawlessness at the heart of his election campaign." 




noco said:


> *The number of militant construction unionists facing prosecution for allegedly wreaking havoc on the nation’s building sites has soared to 100, as Malcolm Turnbull places industrial lawlessness at the heart of his election campaign.*



*

So there's a criminal offence called "allegedly wreaking havoc" ...wow that has to have it's roots in jurisprudence...who makes up this stuff FFS



noco said:



			The Construction Forestry Mining and Energy Union, its state branches and officials have also been fined a total of $7 million for industrial breaches which have been dealt with by the courts since 2002 after the Cole royal commission.
		
Click to expand...



$500k/annum is pocket money for the union and it should be compared to the long term shellouts to gauge the effectiveness of the stunts the LNP have pulled using royal commissions instead of having the police engaged at the front end of the concerns.



noco said:



			The Australian can reveal the Fair Work Building and Construction agency has launched action against 100 CFMEU officials and delegates who are before the courts, accused of more than 1000 industrial breaches.

The allegations include coercion, unlawful industrial action, intimidation and bullying and right-of-entry breaches.
		
Click to expand...


*
Wreaking havoc they woz. It will be interesting to see how many are proved. I'm wondering why The Australian is predicating its article on a revelation that is swaddled in some kind of secret squirrel connotation....."just between you and me" BS journalism.


Too many expensive commissions that always point to electioneering stunts.

I see my old (LNP) acquaintance Ian has given the same cold shoulder to his unprofessional Federal colleagues in parliament today as we far too few on civvy street are want to do ....5 years of ****e in particular to criticise.


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## noco (16 May 2016)

Some good reading for all including our Labor friends.

*Bill Shorten
by Larry Pickering




This is interesting reading- unbelievable, but could be correct. For Larry Pickering to say this it must be true, otherwise Bill Shorten would have had Pickering in court, but didn't have the guts to proceed with it, because Shorten knew he was involved in this criminal scam and could face a long prison term if police were called in to investigate this huge fraud scam.


WHY I HATE THE SIGHT OF BILL SHORTEN. 
       Written by Larry Pickering        
Larry Pickering
Four-time Walkley Award winning political commentator and Churchill Fellow, has returned to the fray over concern that the integrity of news dissemination is continually being threatened by a partisan media.

''Apart from having the sort of head  you'd never get tired of kicking, Bill Shorten, to put it bluntly is a mongrel dog of a bloke. What rankles me most is not his politics or his lack of loyalty, but how he treated a good friend of mine''.


''That good friend is a dinky-di, true blue Labor party bloke, an AWU Secretary with an unusual ambition ... to do the absolute best he could for the workers. That bloke's name is Bob Kernohan, a wonderful and honest lovable human being''.


''In the mid 1990s Bob became aware that a Bruce Wilson, WA Secretary of the same union, and his girlfriend, Julia Gillard,  had been systematically stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars from their union members''.


''Bob was  determined to expose the fraud and have the money returned to union members. He wrote a detailed, comprehensive affidavit on the activities of the two crooks, Bruce Wilson and Julia Gillard and publicised it, causing AWU heavyweights a great deal of anger and panic''.


''One of those AWU officials who was very annoyed was (melon head) Bill Shorten, who was having it off with Nicola Roxon at the time. For God’s sake what a hilarious two-some''.


''Bill Shorten approached Bob Kernohan and told him to stop from exposing the scam saying, "This could bring us all down".  Bob quite rightly ignored the request''.


''Undeterred, sneaky little Bill Shorten, with AWU supremo Bill Ludwig's blessing, then offered Bob the safe Labor seat of Melton in the Victorian Parliament's Lower House''.


''Bob quickly refused the offer, saying "This is nothing but a criminal bribe, I couldn't live with myself if I accepted that". This statement from honest Bob was to cause him considerably physical pain in the very near future by four heavyweight thugs sent to silence Bob Kernohan''.


''Bob, with the help of friends, continued to unearth the scam, which was by now gaining traction in the media, but unknown to Bob he was being shadowed by violent hired guns who were watching his daily comings and goings routine''.


''Then, late one night, Bob found  himself cornered by four of the AWU's best thugs''.


''After receiving some heavy blows from all four,  Bob fell to the ground in a fetal position trying to protect his head with his arms. A hail of work boots found their mark. His head, chest and stomach, he felt the pain of broken bone and torn tissue''.


''After what seemed an age they left Bob, bleeding  and semi conscious, on the dark sidewalk''.


''He has never recovered from that cowardly assault.  The injuries he sustained, both physical and mental, have stayed with  him ... they have affected every aspect of his life''.


''Now in hiding, he still he did not flinch from trying to restore members' funds  stolen by Gillard and Wilson''.


''The next trick was to send him bullets in the mail and make threatening phone calls at all hours of the night. Still Bob  stayed the course''.


''Latest reports from Victorian Police are that they have "ample evidence" to charge both Gillard and Wilson. They await a judge's ruling on further material Wilson is attempting to have suppressed''.


''It would be nice if, before Bob leaves us, that this matter gets resolved and just over a million dollars gets returned to Bob's union members''.


''That's why I don't like sneaky crooked Bill Shorten. If this sewer rat ever becomes PM then God help us''.


''PS. This is an update below.'.


''Just before Christmas, a Magistrate in Melbourne (who fully vetted the files) ruled that documents used in the commission of a crime are not covered 'by Legal Privilege' and ordered their release to Victoria Police who are now moving forward with the investigation. Things are starting to happen, Hurrah'' !


''Imagine an ex PM getting a long prison sentence especially a female, who are supposed to act like ladies with class? Julia Gillard a classy lady? Get real, she's made of stone and with the acid tongue of a wharfie''.


Yours truly, 

Larry Pickering


ALL AUSTRALIANS HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW ABOUT THIS BEFORE THE NEXT GENERAL ELECTION.
PLEASE FORWARD FAR AND WIDE.

*


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## pixel (16 May 2016)

> the sort of head you'd never get tired of kicking





> a mongrel dog of a bloke



If that kind of prose passes as award-winning journalism, I'd rather not read what the Walkley jurors may have rejected as sub-standard. When I was in the news business, that sort of rant would have been relegated to the depth of the sewer.

As regards witch hunts like the Royal Commission against blue-collar crims, it may be worth remembering how many white-collar ones have their offices in air-conditioned glass houses. They must be hoping that mud-slingers like Pickering manage to hoodwink enough voters to keep their protectors in power...


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## SirRumpole (16 May 2016)

A disgusting piece by Pickering that should have him in court for defamation, but why give any credibility to such a scumbag.


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## Tisme (16 May 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> A disgusting piece by Pickering that should have him in court for defamation, but why give any credibility to such a scumbag.




We are talking about a Liberal Party celebrity contestant for Fraser electorate in the 70's, a bloke who insists the media is left biased, even though the Murdochs control it, got his Walkley awards, presumably for cartoons rather than essays,  back in the day when he was not questionably insane.

As I recall Lazza was/is  a philanderer who managed to get himself front and centre in a betting software scam in the 90's.

He's just an extreme right wing hate promoter of anything that isn't white skinned, republican and atypical Australian from the working class 1950's.

The chances of him having ALP mates, including his unrequited love affair with Albo are the stuff of fairytales.


----------



## pixel (16 May 2016)

Tisme said:


> We are talking about a Liberal Party celebrity contestant for Fraser electorate in the 70's, a bloke who insists the media is left biased, even though the Murdochs control it, got his Walkley awards, presumably for cartoons rather than essays,  back in the day when he was not questionably insane.
> 
> As I recall Lazza was/is  a philanderer who managed to get himself front and centre in a betting software scam in the 90's.
> 
> ...




+1, Tisme 

He received the Walkleys four years running, from 1971 to 1974, as a cartoonist.
Some of his cartoons were indeed quite pithy in his days. But since then, he has progressively lost his marbles to the point where his opinion pieces and ethics are now the absolute pits. 
What do they say about fools and old fools? ... Scary to think he's not so much older than I... :1zhelp:


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## SirRumpole (16 May 2016)

Pickering in his day was a great cartoonist. I don't know what has happened to him in recent years, maybe the onset of dementia.


----------



## pixel (16 May 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> Pickering in his day was a great cartoonist. I don't know what has happened to him in recent years, maybe the onset of dementia.



read between the lines...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Pickering

Even his former employers distance themselves from him, labeling him a conman and a stalker.
http://www.smh.com.au/business/larry-pickering--the-conman-stalking-gillard-20120820-24hxi.html


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## noco (16 May 2016)

pixel said:


> read between the lines...
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Pickering
> 
> Even his former employers distance themselves from him, labeling him a conman and a stalker.
> http://www.smh.com.au/business/larry-pickering--the-conman-stalking-gillard-20120820-24hxi.html




Goodness gracious me!!!!.....What a nasty little man this Larry Pickering must be.

But I wonder who arranged to have Bob Kernohan beat up by Labor's union thugs particularly in light of the fact the barnacle Bill told Bob to back off to  which he refused to do.

Can anybody read between the lines?????

''Bob was determined to expose the fraud and have the money returned to union members. He wrote a detailed, comprehensive affidavit on the activities of the two crooks, Bruce Wilson and Julia Gillard and publicised it, causing AWU heavyweights a great deal of anger and panic''.


''One of those AWU officials who was very annoyed was (melon head) Bill Shorten, who was having it off with Nicola Roxon at the time. For God’s sake what a hilarious two-some''.


*''Bill Shorten approached Bob Kernohan and told him to stop from exposing the scam saying, "This could bring us all down". Bob quite rightly ignored the request''.*


''Undeterred, sneaky little Bill Shorten, with AWU supremo Bill Ludwig's blessing, then offered Bob the safe Labor seat of Melton in the Victorian Parliament's Lower House''.


''Bob quickly refused the offer, saying "This is nothing but a criminal bribe, I couldn't live with myself if I accepted that". This statement from honest Bob was to cause him considerably physical pain in the very near future by four heavyweight thugs sent to silence Bob Kernohan''.


''Bob, with the help of friends, continued to unearth the scam, which was by now gaining traction in the media, but unknown to Bob he was being shadowed by violent hired guns who were watching his daily comings and goings routine''.


''Then, late one night, Bob found himself cornered by four of the AWU's best thugs''.


''After receiving some heavy blows from all four, Bob fell to the ground in a fetal position trying to protect his head with his arms. A hail of work boots found their mark. His head, chest and stomach, he felt the pain of broken bone and torn tissue''.


''After what seemed an age they left Bob, bleeding and semi conscious, on the dark sidewalk''.


''He has never recovered from that cowardly assault. The injuries he sustained, both physical and mental, have stayed with him ... they have affected every aspect of his life''.


''Now in hiding, he still he did not flinch from trying to restore members' funds stolen by Gillard and Wilson''.

What a grubby lot Bill's union thugs are.....I mean why did it take 4 union cowards to beat up one bloke?


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## SirRumpole (16 May 2016)

It's no good quoting Larry Pickering noco, anyone as messed up as he is could quite easily make the whole story up.


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## Tisme (16 May 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> It's no good quoting Larry Pickering noco, anyone as messed up as he is could quite easily make the whole story up.





Noco and his cohorts wheeling out the scare campaign electioneering I think. 

This is rather interesting:


http://wixxyleaks.com/desperate-a-response-to-a-column-by-peter-reith/


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## noco (16 May 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> It's no good quoting Larry Pickering noco, anyone as messed up as he is could quite easily make the whole story up.




OK...Now let us see......If his allegations against Shorten, Gillard and Wilson are not correct, why hasn't this trio taken Pickering too court for slander?

Maybe they have the fear of opening up a can of worms....Why was Bon Kernohan beaten up?...Can you tell me why?..After all it was Bill Shorten who tried to gag him.

I would have been disappointed if you lefties had not tried to character assassinate Pickering...You are all past masters at it and after all you could do nothing else but protect your fearless leader who always does the right thing by the workers.....I won't mention how he treated  the workers at Chiquita and Clean Event......Shhhhh!!!


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## SirRumpole (16 May 2016)

noco said:


> OK...Now let us see......If his allegations against Shorten, Gillard and Wilson are not correct, why hasn't this trio taken Pickering too court for slander?
> 
> Maybe they have the fear of opening up a can of worms....Why was Bon Kernohan beaten up?...Can you tell me why?..After all it was Bill Shorten who tried to gag him.
> 
> I would have been disappointed if you lefties had not tried to character assassinate Pickering...You are all past masters at it and after all you could do nothing else but protect your fearless leader who always does the right thing by the workers.....I won't mention how he treated  the workers at Chiquita and Clean Event......Shhhhh!!!




Look matey, your lot had a Star Chamber Royal Commission into Bill Shorten and came up with zilch against him.

 Where are the charges, why isn't he in gaol, you had the chance to nail him even with false evidence and you stuffed it up.

Pack of no hopers you are.


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## SirRumpole (16 May 2016)

Regarding Bob Kernohan



> But how credible is Kernohan and his testimony to the royal commission?
> 
> A significant part of his evidence was seriously flawed, revealing a delusional figure who has reconstructed the memory of major events in his life. In wanting the mud to stick, Bolt is relying on someone who contradicted himself under oath. The details are set out in the commission's transcripts. A big part of Kernohan's public persona has been to portray himself as a whistleblower, the only honest man in the Victorian AWU 20 years ago.
> Advertisement
> ...


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## pixel (16 May 2016)

noco said:


> OK...Now let us see......If his allegations against Shorten, Gillard and Wilson are not correct, *why hasn't this trio taken Pickering too court for slander?*




noco,
Let's ignore your attempted slander of all of us who disagree with you. It doesn't help your cause.
As to "why hasn't this trio taken Pickering too court for slander?", the answer is probably as simple as
*"because they know him for the nutcase that he's proved himself." 
*Suing an undischarged bankrupt would be about as unrewarding as teaching a pig to sing Opera.


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## noco (16 May 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> Look matey, your lot had a Star Chamber Royal Commission into Bill Shorten and came up with zilch against him.
> 
> Where are the charges, why isn't he in gaol, you had the chance to nail him even with false evidence and you stuffed it up.
> 
> Pack of no hopers you are.





My Oh My....We are getting angry...I think I have stirred up a hornets nest...I hope none come back to bite you on the bum.


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## noco (16 May 2016)

pixel said:


> noco,
> Let's ignore your attempted slander of all of us who disagree with you. It doesn't help your cause.
> As to "why hasn't this trio taken Pickering too court for slander?", the answer is probably as simple as
> *"because they know him for the nutcase that he's proved himself."
> *Suing an undischarged bankrupt would be about as unrewarding as teaching a pig to sing Opera.




But surely, wouldn't the trio like to see him Jail?

No matter  what you throw up at Pickering, you have to hand it to him, he has got a  lot of gutz....I just hope he does not finish up like poor old Bob Kernohan.....


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## SirRumpole (16 May 2016)

noco said:


> But surely, wouldn't the trio like to see him Jail?
> 
> No matter  what you throw up at Pickering, you have to hand it to him, he has got a  lot of gutz....I just hope he does not finish up like poor old Bob Kernohan.....




Kernohan was mugged and tried to blame it on the unions. 

He's a mentally unstable drunk trying to get attention.


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## pixel (16 May 2016)

noco said:


> But surely, wouldn't the trio like to see him Jail?
> 
> No matter  what you throw up at Pickering, you have to hand it to him, he has got a  lot of gutz....I just hope he does not finish up like poor old Bob Kernohan.....




Any mudslinging blockhead can repeat lies and innuendo ad nauseam.
Doesn't prove he has "gutz". Merely proves he's an *incorrigible *mudslinging blockhead.


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## Tisme (16 May 2016)

pixel said:


> Any mudslinging blockhead can repeat lies and innuendo ad nauseam.
> Doesn't prove he has "gutz". Merely proves he's an *incorrigible *mudslinging blockhead.




It's good to see you having some sympathy for a union official Noco. That must have been a big step for you ... I'm proud of you.


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## noco (16 May 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> Kernohan was mugged and tried to blame it on the unions.
> 
> He's a mentally unstable drunk trying to get attention.




Is that so.....What a coincidence he got mugged after Shorten told him to back off.


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## SirRumpole (17 May 2016)

noco said:


> Is that so.....What a coincidence he got mugged after Shorten told him to back off.




Yes it is so. Kernohan testified that it was a robbery at the time. Why don't you read things instead of blurting out your prejudices all over this place.


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## noco (17 May 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> Yes it is so. Kernohan testified that it was a robbery at the time. Why don't you read things instead of blurting out your prejudices all over this place.




Do you have some proof ?

Or is that just say so to protect your Fabian leader?

I would say it would be most unusual for 4 thugs to rob one guy......What did they get from poor old Bob?


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## Tisme (17 May 2016)

noco said:


> Do you have some proof ?
> 
> Or is that just say so to protect your Fabian leader?
> 
> I would say it would be most unusual for 4 thugs to rob one guy......What did they get from poor old Bob?




You know it's not unheard of to tell yearns about self inflicted wounds or wounds caused by one's own aggression towards others. There are many ways to damage one's body for allusion, fame, profit, mischief and egregious reasons.

You don't rise up through the union ranks without a good deal of mongrel by your side and enemies on the other


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## noco (17 May 2016)

Tisme said:


> You know it's not unheard of to tell yearns about self inflicted wounds or wounds caused by one's own aggression towards others. There are many ways to damage one's body for allusion, fame, profit, mischief and egregious reasons.
> 
> You don't rise up through the union ranks without a good deal of mongrel by your side and enemies on the other




Yeah..I guess it must be a hard life in the union world.

But of course the old saying is if you sleep with mongrel union dogs you are bound to get fleas or worse.


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## Tisme (17 May 2016)

noco said:


> Yeah..I guess it must be a hard life in the union world.
> 
> But of course the old saying is if you sleep with mongrel union dogs you are bound to get fleas or worse.




I think foxes of equal ability in the commission would be awake to the possibly that our man would/could use an illusory tactic as a red herring to distance himself from wrong doing he was implicated in.

Common sense tells us that if you take a 1000 people you will find a split of 50% opinions on just about any subject. In those 1000 there's probably at least 30 (3%) who could be arrested for crime of some sought, many of whom probably consider their actions as entitled.  

The Royal Commission backfired on the LNP, because it went after parliament itself when it targeted Shorten and put further doubt in people's mind about the probity our those that represent us. It happened to Newman in QLD with his spiteful pursuit of ALP scalps, especially an ex female premier with cancer.


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## noco (6 June 2016)

The CFMEU are still determined to show their muscle in stand over tactics after the TURC...Even Peter Beattie is branding them "NAUGHTY BAD BOYS".

Great stuff fellows......"TWO HOUR MEETINGS TWICE PER DAY ON THE GOLD COAST COMMONWEALTH GAMES PROJECT".

Keep it up fellows for I am sure you will helping Malcolm Turnbull win the july2 election....It will press home the need to for some overhaul in industrial relations...The reason for the DD in the first place.

Anastazia Palazczuk, our fearless useless Labor Premier in Queensland is doing little to stop her favorite  union disruption except to say, don't worry, "EVERYTHING IS ON TRACK FOR THE OPENING", don't worry about the extra costs it will be to the tax payers...Just put it on the Labor "SPEND-O-METER."

What a grubby lot these people are who are running Queensland and the same irresponsible Fabian branded LUG party who want to run the country......Yeah, run the country into the ground.

I say to viewers on this forum, think hard and fast who you vote for......Look at what is happening in Queensland and Victoria....Don't let it happen in Australia.  


https://au.news.yahoo.com/qld/a/31773703/labor-must-stop-union-games-delays-lnp/#page1

*The commission has commenced proceedings against the CFMEU and two of its officials over the work stoppages.

It alleges the $126-million taxpayer-funded project has been disrupted by twice-daily, two-hour-long union meetings organised by the CFMEU.

The Federal Court on Friday ordered that no more than one meeting a week be held until a trial begins on July 25 to determine whether the union used the stoppages to "coerce" the head contractor into signing a new enterprise agreement on its terms.*


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## Tisme (6 June 2016)

noco said:


> The CFMEU are still determined to show their muscle in stand over tactics after the TURC...Even Peter Beattie is branding them "NAUGHTY BAD BOYS".
> 
> Great stuff fellows......"TWO HOUR MEETINGS TWICE PER DAY ON THE GOLD COAST COMMONWEALTH GAMES PROJECT".
> 
> ...




Hansen Yuncken let it be known they wanted to negotiate the EBA after the federal election, which of course would red rag the union and vice versa.


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## noco (7 June 2016)

Judith Sloan sums up Bill Shortens mix match on penalty rates and his union deals with big business to once agai dud the workers of $millions...Time people woke up to this hypocrite.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...s/news-story/89b9d4a21f208c99de141c12ab66976c

*Opposition Leader Bill Shorten is playing a dangerous game when it comes to weekend penalty rates. He must confront the reality that many union enterprise agreements contain no weekend penalty rates or some lower than the underlying award. He is also running a risk by publicly undermining the independence of the Fair Work Commission.

If you go to Labor’s website, there is no ambiguity on the party’s position on penalty rates. “Labor believes in weekend penalty rates. This is a core Labor *belief. That is why Labor will fight to protect your penalty rates and your rights at work.”

Yeah, right. Tell that to the thousands of Coles supermarket workers who have been paid less than the award by dint of a union negotiated enterprise agreement.

The quashing of the Coles *enterprise agreement by the FWC was really only a matter of time. It was always plain as day that staff who worked mainly at the weekend — think students combining their studies with casual work — were being underpaid relative to the award and that the agreement did not meet the better-off-overall test. Unless Coles can rectify this problem, the agreement will *expire.

To be sure, full-time permanent workers with weekday shifts were better off because of the *higher base rates of pay. It is these workers who are most likely to join the union, the Shop, Distributive and Allied Employees Association.

But the reality is that up to 40 per cent of Coles supermarket workers have been dudded — and dudded for a long time. It tells us a lot about the mindset of the members of the FWC who had waved through this agreement and earlier versions. The SDA was a party to the agreement — clearly, nothing to see.

But it was surely more than passing strange that, once the sham deal had been exposed, that the SDA would side with Coles to make the case to the FWC that the agreement should continue. You might think that a trade union would be so embarrassed to be *exposed in this way that it would ask for the agreement to be scrapped.

But the side-benefits for the SDA — encouragement for Coles workers to become union members, automatic payroll deduction of union dues organised by the company, payment to the union for the provision of training, the exclusive nomination of the union-connected industry super fund (REST) — were clearly so compelling that allowing a whole class of workers to lose hundreds, and sometimes thousands, of dollars in pay each year was regarded as a price worth paying.

Now I’m not sure where this sits with Shorten’s positive policy that “Labor will fight to protect your penalty rates”. It clearly *depends. If there is an agreement negotiated between the SDA, a union that pours millions of dollars into Labor’s coffers, and a large business that reduces penalty rates, that’s fine. But if it’s a small business covered by the award then Labor will fight tooth and nail to preserve the penalty rates dictated by the FWC.

And let us not think that it stops at Coles. The SDA agreement with Woolworths is very similar to the Coles one and then there is the agreement between the SDA and McDonald’s that slashes penalty rates even more than the Coles and Woolies agreements because of the scope to reference now-*defunct state awards. Other large fast-food outlets are also covered by these “special” SDA deals.

The conflict for Shorten is as follows: he supports the SDA; the SDA supports Labor and makes very substantial financial contributions to the party; the SDA gets effectively to nominate its *officials to become parliamen*tarians and to influence Labor policy; but without the scope for the SDA and large employers to make special deals, the number of union members will fall substantially and the financial merry-go-round will grind to a halt.

This is not a prospect relished by Shorten, his parliamentary colleagues or union officials. And note that these collusive arrangements between unions and big businesses are not confined to the SDA.*


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## noco (17 June 2016)

I watched some of the National Press Club debate between Micheilia Cash and Brendon O'Connor and I could not believe how O'Connor had the audacity to say Coles workers would have been better off under the agreement when Fair Work stated the Coles workers were being duded $100 million.

Cash had O'Connor tied up in knots. 


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/fed...s/news-story/814a2d7e5404c15a1671ad4ebc7b212a

*The Turnbull government has announced a plan to implement, if re-elected, the “overwhelming majority” of the recommendations made last December by former high court judge Dyson. Heydon in the final report of his royal commission into trade union governance and corruption.

The announcement comes six weeks after Malcolm Turnbull called a double dissolution election in a bid to pass two key industrial relations measures stalled in the Senate and which are aimed at improving union governance and upholding the rule of law on construction sites.

In total, the government has today committed to 48 recommendations of the Heydon Royal commission but is leaving open the door to making picking up further recommendations later on in the election campaign.

All of the recommendations it has embraced so far relate to the revival of a tougher building regulator in the form of the Australian Building and Construction Commission as well as the establishment of a Registered Organisation Commission that will be charged with the oversight of union and employer bodies.

Speaking at a debate in the National Press Club in Canberra with her Opposition counterpart, Employment Minister Michaelia Cash said the plan meant a re-elected Turnbull government would hand the courts the power to remove union officials from their positions if they were found to have repeatedly breached workplace laws.

“If… a person repeatedly breaches Corporations Law, they get banned by the courts from being a company director. If a person repeatedly breaches the road rules, they get banned by the courts from holding a drivers licence. The same principle should apply in the workplace,” Senator Cash said.*


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## Smurf1976 (18 June 2016)

noco said:


> “If… a person repeatedly breaches Corporations Law, they get banned by the courts from being a company director. If a person repeatedly breaches the road rules, they get banned by the courts from holding a drivers licence. *The same principle should apply in the workplace*,” Senator Cash said.[/B]




Industrial Commission hearing or other formal situation finds that union official has broken the law. OK, they're out of a job. Banned from being a union official.

Same hearing finds that manager of the business has broken the law. OK, they're out of a job. Banned from being a manager.

Seems like a good way to promote conflict but not actually solve anything to me.


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## noco (20 March 2017)

Macquack said:


> Wake us up when they actually pin something on Gillard, will ya Noco?




Wakie wakie Macquack.

It is not over until the fat lady sings...Ralph Blewett is about to spill the beans on Gillard......All three could end up in jail......Gillard, Wilson and Blewett.

http://pickeringpost.com/story/-/6999


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## dutchie (29 March 2017)

Sally McManus, ACTU chief, tells of unions breaking laws

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...s/news-story/f834bca72ebf47e5ef2707f4d568cfe3

ACTU secretary Sally McManus has stood by her contentious claims that unjust industrial laws can be broken and strongly backed the conduct of the construction union.

Addressing the National Press Club, Ms McManus said it was a “national disgrace” that union officials had to break the law to stop workers being killed on a building site.

NO Sally it's a "national disgrace" that unions keep breaking the law!


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## SirRumpole (29 March 2017)

dutchie said:


> Addressing the National Press Club, Ms McManus said it was a “national disgrace” that union officials had to break the law to stop workers being killed on a building site.
> 
> NO Sally it's a "national disgrace" that unions keep breaking the law!




I'd have to agree with Sally on this one if safety is really the cause of stoppages.

30 people were been killed on building sites in 2016 and 8 in to 24th Mar 2017 (43 in all industries in 2017).

http://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au...rk-related-fatalities/pages/worker-fatalities



No matter what the laws are, I wouldn't blame people for stopping work if their safety was not assured.

I'm sure all of us wouldn't want to lose a family member to their workplace.


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## noco (29 March 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> I'd have to agree with Sally on this one if safety is really the cause of stoppages.
> 
> 30 people were been killed on building sites in 2016 and 8 in to 24th Mar 2017 (43 in all industries in 2017).
> 
> ...




There were more than double that number you mentioned ( 30 killed on building sites) killed in Transport, postal and warehousing 64 in all....Was it through fatigue or drugs?

I would say no matter what industry a worker is associated with, no matter what authorities including the unions are watching over for safety, you will always get a worker who will break the rules to short cut some where resulting  in his/her demise.

I reacall in the 40's as an apprentice plumber...Working in a bosun's chair outside a 6 story building ........I was adjacent to the 5th floor fixing a bracket to the brick wall to take a 3" copper tube....Lunch time came and instead of lowering myself down to the ground I climbed out of the  bosun's chair, up the rope to the parapet on the 6th floor.....Now if I had fallen, who would get the blame?......The company, the unions or the Work Place Health and Safety?.......Yes we had Government  inspectors in those days who thought nothing of cutting a bosun's chair rope in many places if it showed any fraying........They would put a saw through a wooden ladder if there any sign of weather split.

So my point that I am trying to make is that in many cases some death  are self inflicted through negligence of the worker himself by ignoring safety standards and plain commonsense...The self confession about myself was not an isolated case......I witnessed so many stupid events of workers own negligence during my 13 years in the building industry and it still happens today.

http://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au...rk-related-fatalities/pages/worker-fatalities


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