# "Muslim-friendly" loans: Is this a good way to lock in an interest rate?



## Solly (14 June 2009)

The NAB  is planning to introduce "Muslim-friendly" loans that do not charge interest.

Because of....

 "the Islamic ban on usury the mortgage often works by the bank buying the property, then selling it to the customer at a profit, with the customer then repaying the entire sum in instalments. 

In this way the profit margin is built in from the start. It also has the advantage of making the loan immune from future interest rate rises."

See the article here from Nick Gardner and Warner Russell from the Sunday Telegraph 

http://www.news.com.au/business/money/story/0,28323,25632782-14327,00.html


These loans are available to non-Muslims as well.

Is this a good way to lock in an interest rate ?
Can you see any downside ?
Are there any advantages?


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## Tink (14 June 2009)

*Re: "Muslim-friendly" loans. Is this a good way to lock in an interest rate ?*

Is this for real - or a media beat up..

They just love stirring that pot


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## bluelabel (14 June 2009)

*Re: "Muslim-friendly" loans. Is this a good way to lock in an interest rate ?*

and they reckon bashing indian students is racist. 

:bier:

blue


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## Tink (14 June 2009)

*Re: "Muslim-friendly" loans. Is this a good way to lock in an interest rate ?*



> They just love stirring that pot




I was talking about the journalists...


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## ROE (14 June 2009)

*Re: "Muslim-friendly" loans. Is this a good way to lock in an interest rate ?*

nothing news this stuff been around for decades.
don't think you getting a better deal, they structure it so you effectively pay the same amount of interest.

Interest in another term like fees, transaction cost for them


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## MACCA350 (14 June 2009)

*Re: "Muslim-friendly" loans. Is this a good way to lock in an interest rate ?*

How about we start a religion that ban's anyone making a profit from us

Can someone explain the reason behind why Sharia law prohibits interest being paid or charged?

cheers


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## Tink (14 June 2009)

How journalists are allowed to get away with this BS is beyond me..


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## MACCA350 (14 June 2009)

*Re: "Muslim-friendly" loans. Is this a good way to lock in an interest rate ?*



ROE said:


> nothing news this stuff been around for decades.
> don't think you getting a better deal, they structure it so you effectively pay the same amount of interest.
> 
> Interest in another term like fees, transaction cost for them



Doesn't this defeat the purpose of their law, I mean what's the point of a ban on paying/charging interest if you can get around it by simply calling it something else 

Not trying to belittle anyone's religion here, just trying to understand

cheers


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## Tink (14 June 2009)

Macca is old news redone by the journalists just to get you biting... its worked 

They just added Muslim on it for abit more effect..


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## MACCA350 (14 June 2009)

Tink said:


> Macca is old news redone by the journalists just to get you biting... its worked
> 
> They just added Muslim on it for abit more effect..



Fair enough, but I am interested in the reasons for behind interest being banned in Sharia law. I've never heard about it before and am simply curious.

cheers


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## jono1887 (14 June 2009)

*Re: "Muslim-friendly" loans. Is this a good way to lock in an interest rate ?*



MACCA350 said:


> How about we start a religion that ban's anyone making a profit from us
> 
> Can someone explain the reason behind why Sharia law prohibits interest being paid or charged?
> 
> cheers




Their religion is against both paying interest and being paid interest (they cant open bank accounts that pay them interest).... The law originates from the Christian (old testament), Jewish bible which so happens to make part of the Muslim Quaran as well. The law goes about like this... 'don't charge interest to your own brothers...' something along those lines which was intended to keep communities together.

Now when credit first emerged in 1500s. The Christians went through the same phase that the Muslims are going through now. They refused to give loans with interest or get interest on their money. However, the clever money making Jews read a technicality into the law which stated that you couldn't charge interest to your 'brother'... hence, lending to other races other than fellow Jews was perfectly fine 

time goes on, and the Christians get over it as well after further improvements and changes to the credit system, more technicalities ect.

Now the Muslims are the only ones left whingeing about paying/receiving interest as they still tend to take those laws literally just like the ones to "kill the infidels" (essentially all non Muslims)


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## jono1887 (14 June 2009)

*Re: "Muslim-friendly" loans. Is this a good way to lock in an interest rate ?*



MACCA350 said:


> Doesn't this defeat the purpose of their law, I mean what's the point of a ban on paying/charging interest if you can get around it by simply calling it something else
> 
> Not trying to belittle anyone's religion here, just trying to understand
> 
> cheers




It does in our eyes... but its essentially the same thing that happened 500 years ago, its all about finding technicalities that stops you from 'going to hell' so to say. People want to have clear conscious' when it comes to religion and by having technicalities that gets you through the problem they go home felling better about what their doing.

But I do think those texts should be read IN CONTEXT and what the situation was at that time... its pointless following them literally when its no longer relevant.


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## Julia (14 June 2009)

ROE said:


> nothing news this stuff been around for decades.
> don't think you getting a better deal, they structure it so you effectively pay the same amount of interest.
> 
> Interest in another term like fees, transaction cost for them






Tink said:


> How journalists are allowed to get away with this BS is beyond me..



It's not BS at all.  ROE is right.   It's just a new way of marketing loans by the bank.  The journalists are simply reporting it.


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## Tink (14 June 2009)

Yes Roe is right -- its been in for decades...

So why add Muslim?
I doubt they have even said a word...

Journalists are good at stirring the pot - stir up the masses


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## MACCA350 (14 June 2009)

*Re: "Muslim-friendly" loans. Is this a good way to lock in an interest rate ?*



jono1887 said:


> The law goes about like this... 'don't charge interest to your own brothers...' something along those lines which was intended to keep communities together.



That makes sense. 
It always amuses me how people get around a religious belief using a technicality, I mean the intention is still there.......just one of the many reasons I became an Atheist (I was brought up as a Seventh Day Adventist, a Christian denomination, and left ASAP)

cheers


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## ROE (14 June 2009)

MACCA350 said:


> Fair enough, but I am interested in the reasons for behind interest being banned in Sharia law. I've never heard about it before and am simply curious.
> 
> cheers




Christian used to have the same law, basically it's a sin and you rott in hell if you charge people interest.

It took a clever Jew to get around it   again he called it transaction cost and fees


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## BradK (14 June 2009)

Pretty common in the UK - not sure how it works though. 

I'd swap interest for profit sharing any day... unless it was an investment property... 

Ummmm.... why not give us a choice? 

Besides, I heard the loans was only available up to $1000 anyway?? So, not really mortgages covered. Yet. 

Brad


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## MACCA350 (14 June 2009)

ROE said:


> Christian used to have the same law, basically it's a sin and you rott in hell if you charge people interest.
> 
> It took a clever Jew to get around it   again he called it transaction cost and fees



This Christian law must be lost in history, I'd say most current Christians would have no idea it ever existed, I know I never knew it did after 18 years of being an SDA.

I do remember when I was younger(under 10yo) we were banned from any activity that was purely for entertainment between Fri and Sat sunset. It was part of the "no self gratification(or something like that) on the Sabbath" as you were meant to glorify God, not yourself, on that day............this meant no swimming etc. By the time I was a teenager my parents became more liberal and some such entertainment were allowed.

cheers


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## disarray (14 June 2009)

by adding the total interest to the principal at the outset of the loan you have no opportunity to decrease the amount you pay back through extra repayments. the banks must love it.


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## jono1887 (14 June 2009)

disarray said:


> by adding the total interest to the principal at the outset of the loan you have no opportunity to decrease the amount you pay back through extra repayments. the banks must love it.




not if the overnight cash rate increase several percent over the life of a 30 year loan... you have to take that into account. Say its calculated at 8% over the mortgage... if RBA rates go to 10%, the bank would be borrowing their money at 10% and only getting 8% back (so to speak) - i know thats now exactly how it works but the bank would be loosing out if that was to happen


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## doctorj (14 June 2009)

jono1887 said:


> not if the overnight cash rate increase several percent over the life of a 30 year loan... you have to take that into account. Say its calculated at 8% over the mortgage... if RBA rates go to 10%, the bank would be borrowing their money at 10% and only getting 8% back (so to speak) - i know thats now exactly how it works but the bank would be loosing out if that was to happen



Good banks that operate in markets/currencies with decent liquidity tend to do a pretty good job matching the maturities of their assets and liabilities. 

Borrowing short and lending long was popular amongst some of the 'growth' banks around the world, but they're paying for it now.


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## Julia (14 June 2009)

Tink said:


> Macca is old news redone by the journalists just to get you biting... its worked
> 
> They just added Muslim on it for abit more effect..






Tink said:


> Yes Roe is right -- its been in for decades...
> 
> So why add Muslim?
> I doubt they have even said a word...
> ...



I'll try again.
Don't blame the journalists.
It was the NAB who described the loans as "muslim friendly".



> ONE of Australia's major banks is planning to introduce "Muslim-friendly" loans that do not charge interest to comply with sharia law.
> 
> Instead, the National Australia Bank will structure an Islam-approved line of finance to make money from alternative methods.
> 
> ...




I know it's fashionable to blame the media for everything but at least in this instance they are simply accurately reporting the NAB's news release.


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## jono1887 (14 June 2009)

Julia said:


> I'll try again.
> Don't blame the journalists.
> It was the NAB who described the loans as "muslim friendly".
> 
> ...




just because the words 'muslim friendly' are in quotation marks, doesnt mean that the NAB were the ones say that... it could have come from anywhere


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## Julia (14 June 2009)

Jono, did you actually read the quote I provided?   Quite clearly, the NAB is designing a product to appeal to muslims.

Sigh.

I will try yet again.



> NAB said the loans, which will start out small, will have to be cleared by a Sharia Advisory Board to ensure they meet strict criteria before they can be made available to the public.
> 
> "We are dipping our toe in the water with this scheme and thought we may be able to offer this product in high-density Muslim areas," said Richard Peters, head of community finance and development at NAB.




The journalists have done nothing wrong.
Plenty of opportunities for your media bashing when it's justified.  No need to stick it to them when they're reporting facts.


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## Sunder (14 June 2009)

Julia said:


> Plenty of opportunities for your media bashing when it's justified.  No need to stick it to them when they're reporting facts.




I think their choice of words, especially in the title leaves much to be desired though. The article is number 1 in both news.com.au and the Daily Telegraph.

I suspect they wanted to lure people into outrage to make them think Muslims were getting something for nothing, before sneakily mentioning "they just added some profit" to the total loan balance. Would it have such an impact if they changed the title from:

"Muslims get interest-free loans" to

"NAB capitalises all interest into loans for Muslims"?

Would it have hurt to give an example that a $1000 washing machine, would be onsold to the Muslim client for $1200, to be paid back over 12 monthly repayments of $100 each, where as a normal client, would be loaned $1000, to be paid back as $1200 including interest, in 12 monthly installments of $100 each?

I think there was another article title that raised some ire not too long ago, that they changed very quickly. The title went something like "Repossessions lowest in X years"... to "Increases in repossessions lowest in X years", which I'm sure you'll agree changes the meaning entirely...

 "We're still accelerating towards the edge of a cliff folks. We're just accelerating less fast now... Sorry for the false hope!"


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## disarray (14 June 2009)

jono1887 said:


> just because the words 'muslim friendly' are in quotation marks, doesnt mean that the NAB were the ones say that... it could have come from anywhere




well the NAB are in fact the ones on the "muslim" bandwagon, and they have some $25000 scholarship for "muslim finance" going around. good on the NAB for facilitating the creeping sharia 

NAB should be boycotted.


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## Tink (15 June 2009)

You have hit the nail right on the head Sunder
They do it every time and it annoys me to no avail

If its not on ABC, I wont take much notice

They enjoy throwing the cat amongst the pigeons and watching the rednecks go off like a pack of hyenas -- and it works everytime..

Are people that naive?

300 comments just in one paper in one day - they are smiling...

Sensationalism at its best


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## Krusty the Klown (15 June 2009)

ROE said:


> Christian used to have the same law, basically it's a sin and you rott in hell if you charge people interest.
> 
> It took a clever Jew to get around it   again he called it transaction cost and fees




I remember reading about the Knights Templar who were the biggest money lenders before banks, they were forbidden by this church law of charging interest - so they "rented" the money to borrowers.

I wonder if the Vatican Bank charges or pays interest...........


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## jono1887 (15 June 2009)

Krusty the Klown said:


> I remember reading about the Knights Templar who were the biggest money lenders before banks, they were forbidden by this church law of charging interest - so they "rented" the money to borrowers.
> 
> I wonder if the Vatican Bank charges or pays interest...........




I think the Christians have gotten over the no interest thing... there is really not much point to it in modern contexts


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## skc (15 June 2009)

MACCA350 said:


> How about we start a religion that ban's anyone making a profit from us
> 
> Can someone explain the reason behind why Sharia law prohibits interest being paid or charged?
> 
> cheers




I actually thought the underlying reason for not charing interest is to promote equality. Charging interest will further widen the gap between the rich and the poor as interest transfer money from the have not's (and hence need to borrow) to the have's (and hence the ability to lend). 

With capitalism however, the borrowed money are used for investments (hopefully with return above and beyond the interest paid), so those who paid interests are not necessarily the "have not's" anymore. 

Having said that, the way rich countries charge poor countries interest on foreign loans is pretty wrong.


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## ColB (15 June 2009)

The full article is below and the irony with this is that on 3AW radio today there was a segment where callers were complaining of alleged delaying tactics by the NAB in home loan approvals to the extent where some applicants lost the ability to seize a purchase opportunity.  We all know money is not as easy to get for first home buyer but some callers appeared to have a genuine case of being dicked around.  The NAB would not return 3AW calls  so they are trying to get a response tomorrow.  You'd think they'd look after existing customers/applicants before they tout for other business like this.

I reckon we should all apply for a $1000 interest free loan to call their bluff.

Signed:  Akmed



> *Muslims get interest-free loans*
> 
> By Nick Gardner and Warner Russell - June 14, 2009 12:00am
> 
> ...


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## Julia (15 June 2009)

Sunder said:


> I think their choice of words, especially in the title leaves much to be desired though. The article is number 1 in both news.com.au and the Daily Telegraph.
> 
> I suspect they wanted to lure people into outrage to make them think Muslims were getting something for nothing, before sneakily mentioning "they just added some profit" to the total loan balance. Would it have such an impact if they changed the title from:
> 
> ...



Ah, if that was the headline, then you do have something to complain about.
There was no such headline in the paper in which I read the account.
Don't have the paper any more but I think it was along the lines of "NAB to offer Muslim-friendly Loans".
Nothing wrong with that imo.


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## Sunder (15 June 2009)

It's no longer front and centre, but still on the Daily Telegraph:


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## doctorj (16 June 2009)

ColB said:


> You'd think they'd look after existing customers/applicants before they tout for other business like this.



I'm not sure what product development has to do with waiting times experienced by customers.  Like it or not, the world's most populus Muslim country is right on our door step, making it a large (and growing market segment).  Rather than look at it as a them vs us proposition, why not see it as an opportunity for an Australian bank to develop expertise in a product that is poorly understood and generally ignored by western banks.

It's not about supporting the entrenchment of islam, but a profit opportunity...


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## Tink (16 June 2009)

well said DoctorJ


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## Kez180 (16 June 2009)

*Re: "Muslim-friendly" loans. Is this a good way to lock in an interest rate ?*



ROE said:


> nothing news this stuff been around for decades.
> don't think you getting a better deal, they structure it so you effectively pay the same amount of interest.
> 
> Interest in another term like fees, transaction cost for them




It is because one party can profit no matter what happens to the other....


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## Sunder (16 June 2009)

doctorj said:


> Like it or not, the world's most populus Muslim country is right on our door step, making it a large (and growing market segment).




If you're referring to Indonesia, calling Indonesia a Muslim country, is like calling Australia a Christian country. Sure, 70% of us put down a Christian religion on the Census, but only 1.5% of us attend church more than just Easter and Christmas, and probably half of that who bother to read the bible and apply it to our lives.

If you're referring to Iran... That's a bit far away, isn't it?


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## Judd (16 June 2009)

A couple of aspects.  Ain't Google wonderful?



> 1. Islamic Banking
> 
> Except for Saudi Arabia, the banking laws and practices of countries of the Area are generally based on western banking systems. A notable trend for the application of banking based on Shariah (called Islamic Banking) started in the Area in recent years. Islamic Banking could, in theory, be fairly straight forward. In accordance with Shariah Muslims can trade and invest in anything that is accepted (called halal) and not prohibited (haram). Prohibited matters broadly include things that are illegal or immoral such as gambling, prostitution, pornography, alcohol, drugs and similar other matters. The main difficulty arises in the classification of interest charged on funds in Shariah. While some Islamic jurists and scholars consider all types of interest as usury which is prohibited in Shariah, others consider simple interest acceptable and only compounded interest to be prohibited. Although the argument on interest continues, Islamic banking is expanding in the Area where banks and investment funds based on Shariah banking are being established.
> 
> For more information see Extracts from the book "UAE Company Law"




http://gulf-law.com/islamic_law.html



> What is Shariah Law?
> 
> Under Shariah Islamic law, making money from money, such as charging interest, is usury and therefore not permitted. Wealth should be generated only through legitimate trade and investment in assets. But investment in companies involved with alcohol, gambling, tobacco and pornography is strictly off limits.




http://www.islamicmortgages.co.uk/index.php?id=72


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## disarray (16 June 2009)

doctorj said:


> It's not about supporting the entrenchment of islam, but a profit opportunity...




you are incorrect. this IS about supporting the entrenchment of islam and it has very close ties to fundamentalist and extremist groups that actively call for the infiltration and overthrow of western political systems.

read more about it here, here, and here 



> The Sharia boards supervising the Islamic banks and Sharia-compliant financial services offered by regular European banks are composed of members of the European Council for Fatwa and Research. This Council is headed by Sheik Yousef Al-Qaradawi, a leader of the Muslim Brotherhood and instigator and financier of terrorism in Europe and the Middle East. Both Al-Qaradawi and the Council have expressed their hope that “Islam will return to Europe as a conqueror.”


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## jono1887 (16 June 2009)

disarray said:


> you are incorrect. this IS about supporting the entrenchment of islam and it has very close ties to fundamentalist and extremist groups that actively call for the infiltration and overthrow of western political systems.
> 
> read more about it here, here, and here




hahahah...  do you really think that by monitoring the muslim loans in european banks they will gain any form of real control over european banking systems or even manage to 'rule Europe'


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## disarray (17 June 2009)

jono1887 said:
			
		

> hahahah... do you really think that by monitoring the muslim loans in european banks they will gain any form of real control over european banking systems or even manage to 'rule Europe'




depends on whether you are capable of seeing a big picture or not. for you, obviously not. here's something, maybe you should hit google and see if islamic bankers finance jihad through zakat or prominent anti-western clerics (who sit on these sharia banking boards) in europe have openly stated that the push for islamic finance is another method to push for islamic dominance over the west.

then tie finance in with various forms of political, employment, social and legal agitation and yeah, the sums add up. you know like special days at the pool, special jobs only a muslim could do, legal acceptance of polygamy, hate speech legislation that makes it illegal to criticise islam (but apparently not illegal to stand in the mosque and scream for the destruction of the west and genocide of the jews) , or maybe even just piss and moan about not being given special prayer rooms that are good enough for everyone else at melbourne uni then yeah, the ultimate goal of islam to try and dominate the world

there are none so blind as those who will not see. the hole in the sand is down 

|
|
|
|
|
v

that way. go stick your head in it, you'll be happier there.


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## doctorj (17 June 2009)

> depends on whether you are capable of seeing a big picture or not. for you, obviously not. here's something, maybe you should hit google and see if islamic bankers finance jihad through zakat or prominent anti-western clerics



Just as islamic finance is OCCASIONALLY used to fund terrorism, so is vanilla finance.  The key point to remember is that islamic finance in the way it is being adopted simply restructures the nature of the interest payments, it doesn't inherently fund terrorism.  


> you know like special days at the pool, special jobs only a muslim could do, legal acceptance of polygamy, hate speech legislation that makes it illegal to criticise islam (but apparently not illegal to stand in the mosque and scream for the destruction of the west and genocide of the jews) , or maybe even just piss and moan about not being given special prayer rooms that are good enough for everyone else at melbourne uni then yeah, the ultimate goal of islam to try and dominate the world



Finance has nothing to do with any of this.  Just like the availability of kosher foods in supermarkets has nothing to do with the spread of judaism and support of Israel's position on Palestine.


> The point which is being missed is that all who use it must conform to the dictates of sharia law. Sharia financial institutions may not be making this clear now – they don’t want to frighten people away – but at some point that IOU of sharia-compliance will be called in. This is how sharia-compliance will be spread to both the Muslim and non-Muslim population.



Whilst this may apply to some small institutions, there's no way it's part of the NAB product and furthermore, there's no way it'd be enforceable in a Western court (i.e. obey sharia or we'll reposess your home).


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## disarray (17 June 2009)

doctorj said:


> Just as islamic finance is OCCASIONALLY used to fund terrorism, so is vanilla finance.




as policy? it's only the "SMALL MINORITY" of muslims that blow themselves up on buses and in bars too.



			
				doctorj said:
			
		

> The key point to remember is that islamic finance in the way it is being adopted simply restructures the nature of the interest payments, it doesn't inherently fund terrorism.




incorrect. zakat is a fundamental part of islamic financial principles and through donations to islamic charities it funds terrorism operations around the globe. read  this . or a snippet to get the gist -



> Al Queda's financial backbone is built from the foundation of charities, non-governmental organisations, mosques, websites, fund-raisers, intermideiaries, facilitators, and banks and other financial institutions that helped finance the mujiheddin throughout the 1980's. This network extended to all corners of the Muslim world.




more relevant to us in australia, how does jemaah islamiyah fund its south east asian operations?



			
				paraphrased said:
			
		

> cash brought into the country on person, funds skimmed from islamic charities, corporate entities, proceeds from hawala (underground banking) shops, gold and gem smuggling, contributions (zakat and infaq) from JI members and supporters, Al Queda investments and accounts already established in the regional islamic banking system and petty crime






			
				doctorj said:
			
		

> Finance has nothing to do with any of this.  Just like the availability of kosher foods in supermarkets has nothing to do with the spread of judaism and support of Israel's position on Palestine.




incorrect again. judaism doesn't have as one of its central principles the subjugation of all kaffir and imposition of its own legal, social and religious code on the rest of the world. when jews do the kosher thing its so they can have food prepared according to their religious dictates. if KFC serve bacon burgers they don't carry on about it and demand it is removed from the shops.

muslims on the other hand aggressively push their halal requirements onto the rest of society so if you want bacon on your burger in western sydney you're **** out of luck. muslims are also well known for whining when they have to handle pork as part of their food preparation duties (unlike our kosher munching friends)



			
				doctorj said:
			
		

> Whilst this may apply to some small institutions, there's no way it's part of the NAB product and furthermore, there's no way it'd be enforceable in a Western court (i.e. obey sharia or we'll reposess your home).




yet. however a look at the state of europe may give us a glimpse into our future where sharia law is already enforced in part and there are continuing calls for its expansion and influence into the western political, social, and now financial system.

or just ignore it all, it's easier.

** more **

Banks helping sharia make a back door entrace



> The origin of Islamic banking has its roots in the 1920s, but did not start until the late 1970s and owes much of its foundation to the Islamist doctrine of two people — Abul Ala Maudoodi of the Jamaat-e-Islami in Pakistan and Hassan al-Banna of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. The theory was put into practice by Pakistani dictator General Zia-ul-Haq who established sharia banking law in Pakistan.
> 
> Proponents of sharia banking rest their case on many verses of the Holy Koran that outlaw usury, not interest.
> 
> ...


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## doctorj (17 June 2009)

disarray said:


> or just ignore it all, it's easier.



I have no idea how to counter an argument that is riddled with non sequitors, so as far as this thread goes at least, I think ignoring it is easier.


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## Tink (17 June 2009)

Xenophobia is alive an kicking I see

Aaaah news.com.au -- you have done it again....

Pathetic Journalism..


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## Sunder (17 June 2009)

Tink said:


> Xenophobia is alive an kicking I see
> 
> Aaaah news.com.au -- you have done it again....
> 
> Pathetic Journalism..




Is it Xenophobia, or a cultural/religious thing?

I remember reading an article back in 2003 - forgot the hard figures, but they compared crime stats, employment rates, ability to speak english etc, for Lebanese Muslims, and Lebanese Christians.

Bottom line was that 12 months after migration, you couldn't tell a Lebanese Christian from a local by stats, but the Lebanese Muslims were something like 6 times more likely to be convicted of a crime (Within 12 months!!) and far more likely to be unemployed. 

This was of course fresh after the memory of September 11, and the stats could be skewed by people refusing to hire Muslims, and therefore forcing them to crime... But I doubt it accounts for all of it.


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## Tink (17 June 2009)

I wouldnt be tarnishing them all with the same brush Sunder

I know a couple of Lebanese Muslims that are hard workers and a good family..
I look at the paper everyday and I see plenty of Aussies in crime and unemployed 
What are we going to do about them?


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## Sunder (17 June 2009)

Tink said:


> I wouldnt be tarnishing them all with the same brush Sunder
> 
> I know a couple of Lebanese Muslims that are hard workers and a good family..
> I look at the paper everyday and I see plenty of Aussies in crime and unemployed
> What are we going to do about them?




Of course not. I'm not suggesting we bar an entire religion because their stats turned out worse than another group.

I'm just saying the differences fall along religious and cultural lines, not national ones, so it's not really Xenophobia.


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## Happy (17 June 2009)

disarray said:


> well the NAB are in fact the ones on the "muslim" bandwagon, and they have some $25000 scholarship for "muslim finance" going around. good on the NAB for facilitating the creeping sharia
> 
> NAB should be boycotted.





Why was NAB allowed to push this religious wedge?

So we slowly get used to that shara thing, eventually to have no other option in some time in the future.


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## kingcarmleo (17 June 2009)

Don't you people understand NAB is run by the medici family


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## jono1887 (17 June 2009)

kingcarmleo said:


> Don't you people understand NAB is run by the medici family




Just like the Muslims that are not really humans, but are aliens that have infected human hosts and are currently attempting to take over the world.


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## Happy (17 June 2009)

jono1887 said:


> Just like the Muslims that are not really humans, but are aliens that have infected human hosts and are currently attempting to take over the world.





One day you might be surprised how close to mark you are.


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## jono1887 (17 June 2009)

Happy said:


> One day you might be surprised how close to mark you are.




And I'll be ready in my nuclear fall out shelter, sitting next to my shotgun and my CB radio...


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## Happy (17 June 2009)

jono1887 said:


> And I'll be ready in my nuclear fall out shelter, sitting next to my shotgun and my CB radio...





Might brush on some languages while you wait


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