# Latest tweets by The Donald



## noirua (9 April 2018)

President Xi and I will always be friends, no matter what happens with our dispute on trade. China will take down its Trade Barriers because it is the right thing to do. Taxes will become Reciprocal & a deal will be made on Intellectual Property. Great future for both countries!


The United States hasn’t had a Trade Surplus with China in 40 years. They must end unfair trade, take down barriers and charge only Reciprocal Tariffs. The U.S. is losing $500 Billion a year, and has been losing Billions of Dollars for decades. Cannot continue!


China, which is a great economic power, is considered a Developing Nation within the World Trade Organization. They therefore get tremendous perks and advantages, especially over the U.S. Does anybody think this is fair. We were badly represented. The WTO is unfair to U.S.

“Still Rising: Rasmussen Poll Shows Donald Trump Approval Ratings Now at 51 Percent”
http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...donald-trump-approval-ratings-now-51-percent/


----------



## SirRumpole (9 April 2018)

Trump brings up some good points about trade deficits and exports of jobs.

The question is, does protectionism work for individual countries and the world ?

Consumers end up paying higher prices, but more of them may have jobs with an income to buy things with.


----------



## noirua (9 April 2018)

The Donald didn't tweet that he hasn't bothered to have sprinklers added to his Trump Tower. 

Fire sprinklers were not required in New York City high-rises when Trump Tower was completed in 1983. Updates to the building code required commercial skyscrapers to install sprinklers, but owners of older residential high-rises are not required to install sprinklers unless the building undergoes major renovations.

*Trump Tower fire: man dies in blaze on 50th floor*
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/apr/07/trump-tower-fire-50th-floor


----------



## Joe Blow (9 April 2018)

For those interested, you can actually embed tweets directly into posts. Simply click the drop down menu on the tweet and select "Copy link to Tweet".







...then click the "Media" button in the post editing controls and paste the link into the Media URL box. Then submit your post.


----------



## Smurf1976 (9 April 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Trump brings up some good points about trade deficits and exports of jobs.
> 
> The question is, does protectionism work for individual countries and the world ?
> 
> Consumers end up paying higher prices, but more of them may have jobs with an income to buy things with.



The problem with free trade is that it isn't.

If China etc can produce goods more efficiently then I'm fine with them "winning" on that basis.

In practice however all they're really doing is using artificially cheap inputs. Their workers are not being paid wages in accordance with Australian, EU etc laws. Their environmental standards do not comply with developed country regulations and so on.

It seems entirely reasonable to me to apply tariffs until such time as they choose to compete on an actual level playing field. Same wages and entitlements. Same environmental protections. And so on.

It's simply not possible that an Australian company can be competitive on cost even if they are twice as efficient when others are paying workers incredibly low wages, have lax safety standards and so on. That's the exact opposite of the so-called "level playing field" - at present it's tilted massively against Australia and other developed countries.


----------



## SirRumpole (9 April 2018)

Smurf1976 said:


> The problem with free trade is that it isn't.




I could not agree more although I can see an initial reasoning of altruism in lowering trade barriers on "less developed" countries in order to bring their standards of living up to the rest of the world.

This has worked to an extent in China and India, although massive exploitation now exists in those countries and maybe it's now time to get tougher on tariffs to bring them more in line with western expectations of wealth distribution.

And while we are talking about a level playing field we should also remember the massive taxpayer subsidies for business, agriculture and industry that exist in the US and Europe.


----------



## noirua (10 April 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> I could not agree more although I can see an initial reasoning of altruism in lowering trade barriers on "less developed" countries in order to bring their standards of living up to the rest of the world.
> 
> This has worked to an extent in China and India, although massive exploitation now exists in those countries and maybe it's now time to get tougher on tariffs to bring them more in line with western expectations of wealth distribution.
> 
> And while we are talking about a level playing field we should also remember the massive taxpayer subsidies for business, agriculture and industry that exist in the US and Europe.




Maybe China's one child policy helped to reduce poverty there. India assassinated leaders who tried to to solve the problem of population growth.


----------



## noirua (10 April 2018)

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author



I'm not sure how many cars go from China to America and from America to China. Or the difference in value.
However, there are no plans to put sprinklers in Trump Tower. I wonder if they check the lifts - problems in Hong Kong.


----------



## noirua (10 April 2018)

The table is of quite some depth.  I was told this both signified a committee's importance or how important they thought they were.  Also you have to be acrobatic to leap across the table...


----------



## noirua (10 April 2018)

noirua said:


> https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author
> 
> 
> 
> ...





*Is Donald Trump right that China slaps a 25 percent tariff on American cars?*
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-trump-right-china-slaps-25-percent-tariff-a/

China makes up a relatively small share of U.S. auto imports
For starters, China exports very few cars to the United States. China accounted for about 3 out of every 10,000 cars sold in the United States last year, according to Michael Hicks, the director of the Center for Business and Economic Research at Ball State University.


----------



## noirua (11 April 2018)

It looks as if The Donald is using Israel's planes to target Syria. I guess they are better at it than Americans in that region. An American battleship is on its way, maybe yes.

I thought the Spartan's had the best army the world has ever seen.  It was said that one Spartan was worth more than 30 of any other army when fighting as a unit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartan_army


----------



## Knobby22 (11 April 2018)

noirua said:


> I thought the Spartan's had the best army the world has ever seen.  It was said that one Spartan was worth more than 30 of any other army when fighting as a unit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartan_army




One stealth bomber would wipe out a Spartan army.


----------



## tech/a (11 April 2018)

Knobby22 said:


> One stealth bomber would wipe out a Spartan army.




Don't need a bomber.
a few Drones will do the trick


----------



## noirua (11 April 2018)

The Donald is hard at work chasing the Russian oligarchs:
*Russian oligarchs lose billions as US sanctions take hold*
http://www.france24.com/en/20180410...arget-putin-allies-trump-deripaska-vekselberg


----------



## noirua (11 April 2018)

The coming together of China and America in a loving relationship is absolutely wonderful.


*How China’s Xi, without blinking on trade, got the stock market to cheer*
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/t...-what-chinas-xi-didnt-say-on-trade-2018-04-10


----------



## SirRumpole (11 April 2018)

noirua said:


> The Donald is hard at work chasing the Russian oligarchs:
> *Russian oligarchs lose billions as US sanctions take hold*
> http://www.france24.com/en/20180410...arget-putin-allies-trump-deripaska-vekselberg




Maybe Vlad's alleged support of Trump has become unstuck.

Will we see Putin's mega rich friends turn against him ?


----------



## noirua (11 April 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Maybe Vlad's alleged support of Trump has become unstuck.
> 
> Will we see Putin's mega rich friends turn against him ?




This is like a game of chess with each combatant using high powered computers. Of course Russia supplies Europe with gas. Russia needs the cash and Putin must be weighing up the next move. An opponent that has nothing much more to lose is very dangerous.

*Russia’s Grip On European Gas Markets Is Tightening*
https://oilprice.com/Geopolitics/In...ip-On-European-Gas-Markets-Is-Tightening.html


----------



## CanOz (11 April 2018)

Twitter diplomacy....my Dad must be rolling in his grave!


----------



## CanOz (11 April 2018)

An olive branch, twitter 
	

		
			
		

		
	





	

		
			
		

		
	
 style...


----------



## greggles (11 April 2018)

Warmongering Twitter style.



Wall Street is in for an interesting night. I'm betting down 350 points at least.


----------



## noirua (12 April 2018)

Opioid use - The Donald has a point here:



*The opioid crisis and why Australia is cracking down on codeine - January 31 2018*
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...and-why-australia-is-cracking-down-on-codeine
From Thursday drugs containing codeine – an addictive substance closely related to morphine and derived from opium – will no longer be available from pharmacies without a prescription.


----------



## noirua (12 April 2018)

The man himself is getting down to business.

President Donald J. Trump signs the H.R. 1865 -- Allow States and Victims to Fight Online Sex Trafficking Act of 2017 at the White House on April 11, 2018. - U.S. Department of State


----------



## noirua (13 April 2018)

The mother of Donald Trump: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Anne_MacLeod_Trump


----------



## noirua (13 April 2018)

The father of Donald Trump: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Trump


----------



## noirua (13 April 2018)

The Donald is playing fast and loose with Russia. Syria and Assad seem to be an aside.


Unfortunately America helped create ISIS as they destroyed the Iraqi regime and left it only with a puppet leader.  This also doubled up the problems in Syria with ISIS and brought in Russia. All a mess. Not The Donald's fought and perhaps he deserves some thanks.


----------



## noirua (13 April 2018)

Granddad of Donald Trump: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Trump


----------



## SuperGlue (13 April 2018)

*Donald Trump is exploring re-joining the Trans-Pacific Partnership, senators say*

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-...loring-rejoining-tpp-trade-deal-talks/9652202


----------



## SuperGlue (13 April 2018)

*What Trump doesn’t know about the art of negotiation*

"Ultimatums, threats and escalating rhetoric might have worked for President Donald Trump in the rough-and-tumble world of high-end real estate. But it's not a very effective strategy for the leader of the free world,...."

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/07/what-trump-doesnt-know-about-the-art-of-negotiation.html


----------



## noirua (13 April 2018)

I will be making remarks on the large scale TAX CUTS given to American families and workers at 1:45 P.M. from the Rose Garden. Join me live:


----------



## Tisme (13 April 2018)

SuperGlue said:


> *What Trump doesn’t know about the art of negotiation*
> 
> "Ultimatums, threats and escalating rhetoric might have worked for President Donald Trump in the rough-and-tumble world of high-end real estate. But it's not a very effective strategy for the leader of the free world,...."
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/07/what-trump-doesnt-know-about-the-art-of-negotiation.html





The world needed a modern day Regan/Thatcher correction. The fact that western society is obsessed with the gender, language and colour of its navel screams a bored culture bleeding for some giddyup.

He's picking fights and no-one is accepting the challenge. He might have to settle with a border war with Canada on the basis of 1812 unfinished business.


----------



## greggles (13 April 2018)

Trump is giving James Comey a pasting on Twitter after the release of his tell-all book.


----------



## noirua (14 April 2018)

greggles said:


> Trump is giving James Comey a pasting on Twitter after the release of his tell-all book.





This is like a World Championship Twitter match. Heavy Weight boxing style. Sometimes a person does a great job and gradually fades away - maybe Trump should be careful about a weak person. It's the weak person who fires the bullets first and it's the tough Sheriff who disarms people and takes 'em in.


----------



## noirua (15 April 2018)




----------



## noirua (16 April 2018)

The Donald is only waffling today so nothing worth posting so far. https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump...io/iframe/twitter.min.html#984095671262367744


----------



## noirua (16 April 2018)

Mike Pence steams in:


----------



## noirua (17 April 2018)

That's how it goes The Donald. Tough cookies.


----------



## noirua (17 April 2018)

A job done. Behind the scenes Syria, Russia and Iran are quite pleased. Especially Iran as they've suffered chemical attacks by Iraq in the 8 -years-war and Syria haven't got so much of it now.


----------



## noirua (17 April 2018)

The Donald has a slight headache and is re-tweeting today: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump...io/iframe/twitter.min.html#985858100149309441


----------



## noirua (19 April 2018)




----------



## noirua (19 April 2018)

Stormy is setting herself up for a big pay off, win or lose. However, eventually, the tax man cometh.


----------



## noirua (20 April 2018)

*Ex-Playboy Model, Freed From Contract, Can Discuss Alleged Trump Affair*
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/18/us/politics/karen-mcdougal-american-media-settlement.html


----------



## noirua (21 April 2018)




----------



## noirua (21 April 2018)




----------



## noirua (21 April 2018)




----------



## noirua (21 April 2018)

Australia and many European countries need to cut taxes and build high tax free allowances.
I suggest a tax free figure of $60,000 for Australians on earnings. Next $60,000 at 15%. Tax on next $60,000 at 20%. Anything over that at 25%. Zero tax on all dividends and abolish capital gains tax.
Add a 20% surcharge on all flights out of or into Australia -  a very green act. Put a 100% extra tax on cigarettes and tobacco. A 100% additional tax on all alcohol. An additional 40c per litre on petrol or diesel. Extra 20% tax on new vehicles. Extra 10% tax on houses or properties bought over a value of $1 million.


----------



## noirua (25 April 2018)

The Donald is getting to work on this despite the trip hazards.  Other countries need to watch and learn. Pretty fast as well.


----------



## IFocus (25 April 2018)

noirua said:


> The Donald is getting to work on this despite the trip hazards.  Other countries need to watch and learn. Pretty fast as well.





Agree we need a wall between WA and eastern states to stop our GST leaving WA


----------



## noirua (26 April 2018)

IFocus said:


> Agree we need a wall between WA and eastern states to stop our GST leaving WA




In 1933 there was a vote in favour of seccession and a seccession flag designed.  The outcome was to set up a new country but the British didn't allow it to happen.
Westralia would then have become a Dominion like Canada.
So citizens would not be Australians today they'd be Westralians.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secessionism_in_Western_Australia
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Flag_of_Dominion_of_Westralia_(secession_movement).svg


----------



## noirua (27 April 2018)




----------



## noirua (28 April 2018)




----------



## noirua (28 April 2018)




----------



## noirua (29 April 2018)




----------



## noirua (29 April 2018)




----------



## noirua (1 May 2018)




----------



## noirua (1 May 2018)




----------



## luutzu (1 May 2018)

noirua said:


> The coming together of China and America in a loving relationship is absolutely wonderful.
> 
> 
> *How China’s Xi, without blinking on trade, got the stock market to cheer*
> https://www.marketwatch.com/story/t...-what-chinas-xi-didnt-say-on-trade-2018-04-10





Is it me or does Trump sound too polite towards Xi?


----------



## luutzu (1 May 2018)

noirua said:


>





Let see... France, Germany, Russia, China... some UN agency verifying Iranian compliance.. they all say that Iran is in compliant. 

But none of those countries with all their spies and security experts know more than Israel. And it just happen that Israel have been wanting the US to wipe Iran out since at least Junior taking out Saddam some 15 years ago.

I guess those countries don't have evidence like a photo of a few big safe housing nuclear secret documents.


----------



## noirua (2 May 2018)

luutzu said:


> Let see... France, Germany, Russia, China... some UN agency verifying Iranian compliance.. they all say that Iran is in compliant.
> 
> But none of those countries with all their spies and security experts know more than Israel. And it just happen that Israel have been wanting the US to wipe Iran out since at least Junior taking out Saddam some 15 years ago.
> 
> I guess those countries don't have evidence like a photo of a few big safe housing nuclear secret documents.




It may be the case that Israel knows what America wants to hear. So they've served it up to them with caviare.


----------



## noirua (2 May 2018)




----------



## luutzu (2 May 2018)

noirua said:


> It may be the case that Israel knows what America wants to hear. So they've served it up to them with caviare.




Yea, he know Trump can't read so the presentation has big fonts, lots of adjectives Trump likes... and has quite a few props unveiled slowly. David Copperfield might sue for trademark infringement. 

But of course Yahu doesn't want war with Iran. No way, he said.


----------



## luutzu (2 May 2018)

noirua said:


>





How do you fix a trade deficit? 

You just don't buy too many crap from them right? Or you sell to them more than you buy. 

How does a country keeping on buying from another, then blame the other country for being unfair and mean.

It's almost like the NRA not allowing guns in the stadium when the VP speaks. 'cause I guess a few team of secret service with guns among people with guns isn't safe.


----------



## noirua (3 May 2018)

luutzu said:


> How do you fix a trade deficit?
> 
> You just don't buy too many crap from them right? Or you sell to them more than you buy.
> 
> ...




America now has a 21% corporation tax rate and that means a booming economy for America. One of the reasons Australia wants to dump Franking Credits and lower company taxation. So it means stopping China from putting high tariffs on American goods going into China.  Then getting China to lower the amount of goods going into America.


----------



## noirua (3 May 2018)

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/05/02/us/military-plane-crash-savannah-georgia/index.html


----------



## luutzu (3 May 2018)

noirua said:


> America now has a 21% corporation tax rate and that means a booming economy for America. One of the reasons Australia wants to dump Franking Credits and lower company taxation. So it means stopping China from putting high tariffs on American goods going into China.  Then getting China to lower the amount of goods going into America.




Didn't that thirsty senator Rubio just recently admit that the tax cut hardly benefit the American workers. That it goes to bonuses and share buybacks?

So depends on how "The economy" is measure - if it's the stock market and executive bonuses then sure, it's been a boom. For the average bloke, they better start to work harder and own a few trusts of stocks or something.

As to China cutting its export... That's in the control of the buyer isn't it? Just don't buy cheap stuff and it'll stop flowing.


----------



## Tisme (3 May 2018)

His tweets this morning centered around the impudence of haters questioning his article 2 right to hire and fire his executive staff.


----------



## Darc Knight (3 May 2018)

Can an I.T. boffin explain to me how the FBI's website can be hacked but not a Twitter account. Imagine if some nut hacked Trump's Twitter and posted "the bombing of Nth Korea , or Iran etc will commence in one hour". People would take it seriously due to the irrational nature of some of Trump's posts. Millions could be killed by pre emptive strikes.


----------



## luutzu (3 May 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> Can an I.T. boffin explain to me how the FBI's website can be hacked but not a Twitter account. Imagine if some nut hacked Trump's Twitter and posted "the bombing of Nth Korea , or Iran etc will commence in one hour". People would take it seriously due to the irrational nature of some of Trump's posts. Millions could be killed by pre emptive strikes.




And that's why Twitter is impenetrable. National security, world peace... and personal privacy. 

Not Facebook though. Theirs are tight but any idiot with a big chequebook can get access to everything.


----------



## noirua (4 May 2018)




----------



## Darc Knight (4 May 2018)

luutzu said:


> And that's why Twitter is impenetrable. National security, world peace... and personal privacy.
> 
> Not Facebook though. Theirs are tight but any idiot with a big chequebook can get access to everything.




Is Twitter impenetrable though?

Facebook certainly isn't. I knew someone who went onto a Business's facebook and managed to change their profile pic.


----------



## luutzu (4 May 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> Is Twitter impenetrable though?
> 
> Facebook certainly isn't. I knew someone who went onto a Business's facebook and managed to change their profile pic.




Don't take me seriously on these ones. I'm so old I don't even have a MySpace account.


----------



## noirua (6 May 2018)




----------



## noirua (6 May 2018)




----------



## noirua (6 May 2018)

It looks like a 'selfie' garden party. 'Upright Tulips' - I thought all Tulips were upright?


https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles...rce=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=wh


----------



## luutzu (6 May 2018)

noirua said:


> It looks like a 'selfie' garden party. 'Upright Tulips' - I thought all Tulips were upright?
> 
> 
> https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles...rce=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=wh





Tulips at the WH are more upright, just like America and those in the WH are more upright. U. S. A.! U. S. A.!


----------



## luutzu (6 May 2018)

noirua said:


>





There's just so many things wrong with those tweets.

Fist, Mexico would have been a very wealthy country if its oil weren't handed out to foreign corporations.. most of whom are those with the red white and blue.

They discovered crap load of oil reserves in Mexico in the 70s. It was going to change their entire country and help lift its people out of poverty. Let just say that Australia is lucky to be so far away from the Americas.

So if you don't want beggaring neighbours to come on over to do your dirty work for next to nothing, then don't ruin their economy. Don't do stupid NAFTA that floods the Mexican market with cheap subsidised agriculture, driving all farmers off their land into the streets... 

As to a stupid wall and illegals... if they're criminals and illegals, having a wall isn't going to stop them. They can climb, they can tunnel. 

Second, applying for asylum is not illegal and is not an invasion. That's why they knock and ask nicely if they could apply for help. 

Third, those caravan are from a country where your CIA and "national interest" just rigged their election. So stop doing that and people might not need to run away from dictators and idiots you put in place to sell the country's resources to your corporations.


----------



## SirRumpole (6 May 2018)

noirua said:


> America now has a 21% corporation tax rate and that means a booming economy for America.




How is their debt and deficit going ?


----------



## Darc Knight (6 May 2018)

noirua said:


> America now has a 21% corporation tax rate and that means a booming economy for America. One of the reasons Australia wants to dump Franking Credits and lower company taxation. So it means stopping China from putting high tariffs on American goods going into China.  Then getting China to lower the amount of goods going into America.



But America also has State Taxes that we don't. So their 21℅ Comp Tax is deceptive.


----------



## luutzu (6 May 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> How is their debt and deficit going ?




gangbuster.


----------



## noirua (7 May 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> How is their debt and deficit going ?




The Donald explains why America's deficit is going down despite it increasing:
If you were up a ladder level with the deficit it would appear to be going up.
If you move up the ladder two steps when the deficit goes up one step, it will in fact have gone down one step. Thus the deficit is decreasing.
People must learn to keep up and get ahead of the game!


----------



## noirua (8 May 2018)




----------



## noirua (8 May 2018)




----------



## luutzu (8 May 2018)

noirua said:


> The Donald explains why America's deficit is going down despite it increasing:
> If you were up a ladder level with the deficit it would appear to be going up.
> If you move up the ladder two steps when the deficit goes up one step, it will in fact have gone down one step. Thus the deficit is decreasing.
> People must learn to keep up and get ahead of the game!




The $15B proposed cut also help. 

Doesn't matter that $7B out of that was meant for the CHIPS - poor children's health insurance; or that some $3B is to be removed from their nutritional program. 

Kids gotta learn to be born to the right parents. 

Seriously, what's wrong with these bunch of idiots. 

I mean we can understand that they give themselves and their friends tax cuts but come on man, taking from sick and hungry kids. wtf?


----------



## luutzu (8 May 2018)

noirua said:


>





We already what he'll say though. 

The NRA just named as its new president a dude that illegally ran arms to the Iranian rebels in the 80s (among other places). Trump was at the NRA a day before pizzing off the Poms and Frogs... and a week ago Bibi gave his presentation - this time with powerpoints, a shelful of binders and CDs. 

That and oil need a good price else Saudi Arabia can't pay for anymore arms soon... and other US oil barons have sweated the little operators long enough - it's time for the kill.


----------



## Tisme (9 May 2018)

luutzu said:


> We already what he'll say though.
> 
> The NRA just named as its new president a dude that illegally ran arms to the Iranian rebels in the 80s (among other places). Trump was at the NRA a day before pizzing off the Poms and Frogs... and a week ago Bibi gave his presentation - this time with powerpoints, a shelful of binders and CDs.
> 
> That and oil need a good price else Saudi Arabia can't pay for anymore arms soon... and other US oil barons have sweated the little operators long enough - it's time for the kill.




If you want to know where Trump is going listen to Wilbur Ross. He's one man to be reckoned with.


----------



## luutzu (9 May 2018)

Tisme said:


> If you want to know where Trump is going listen to Wilbur Ross. He's one man to be reckoned with.




Like to go into a bit more detail? Wiki only goes so far 

But yea, he's one of those quiet ones.


----------



## noirua (9 May 2018)




----------



## Tisme (9 May 2018)

noirua said:


>





He spoke very well. The lefties will be beside themselves with dismay.


----------



## Tisme (9 May 2018)

luutzu said:


> Like to go into a bit more detail? Wiki only goes so far
> 
> But yea, he's one of those quiet ones.



https://twitter.com/SecretaryRoss?lang=en


----------



## Knobby22 (9 May 2018)

Tisme said:


> He spoke very well. The lefties will be beside themselves with dismay.



Which is obviously the important point spread by the hateful Murdoch Press.
It does show that the US cannot be trusted and you are better building the nuclear weapons. North Korea, take note. Iran says they will wait a couple of weeks for talks and then start enriching uranium. Time for the USA to send in the troops? the rumour is that Israel if geared up to do just that.
Australia (and also France, England and Germany) won't support them this time as we didn't want the treaty cancelled.


----------



## luutzu (9 May 2018)

Knobby22 said:


> Which is obviously the important point spread by the hateful Murdoch Press.
> It does show that the US cannot be trusted and you are better building the nuclear weapons. North Korea, take note. Iran says they will wait a couple of weeks for talks and then start enriching uranium. Time for the USA to send in the troops? the rumour is that Israel if geared up to do just that.
> Australia (and also France, England and Germany) won't support them this time as we didn't want the treaty cancelled.




The way to do things we don't want to do is to pretend we really like it, that it's good for us and world peace. That or else somebody less capable will be sitting on our high horses soon 

So the Iranians wanted to put down their (potential) nukes and talk trade, buy and sell stuff with the world. 

The US decided it's not good enough because... because one day Iran might want a nuke, or go into nuclear medicine to treat cancer or something. 

Wouldn't this just drive more Iranian oil to the Chinese... and they now pay it in Yuan instead of American greenback. Wouldn't it also mean more Russian and Chinese investment and strategic (non-military, commercial only) bases in the Persian Gulf? 

I thought you're supposed to lock the doors, check the stoves before you pivot out of the area. This is like setting the place on fire and inviting unliked neighbours to come on in and take what they want.


----------



## noirua (10 May 2018)

Knobby22 said:


> Which is obviously the important point spread by the hateful Murdoch Press.
> It does show that the US cannot be trusted and you are better building the nuclear weapons. North Korea, take note. Iran says they will wait a couple of weeks for talks and then start enriching uranium. Time for the USA to send in the troops? the rumour is that Israel if geared up to do just that.
> Australia (and also France, England and Germany) won't support them this time as we didn't want the treaty cancelled.




North Korea will see sanctions lifted by China, South Korea and Japan.  Gradually America will lift its sanctions. Iran will be isolated.


----------



## noirua (10 May 2018)




----------



## Triathlete (10 May 2018)

Knobby22 said:


> Which is obviously the important point spread by the hateful Murdoch Press.
> It does show that the US cannot be trusted and you are better building the nuclear weapons. North Korea, take note. Iran says they will wait a couple of weeks for talks and then start enriching uranium. Time for the USA to send in the troops? the rumour is that Israel if geared up to do just that.
> Australia (and also France, England and Germany) won't support them this time as we didn't want the treaty cancelled.



Israel have gone in before a number of years ago I believe and took out a few sites. They get a nod from the US behind the scenes and they will go again...They will not be waiting around for that to develop further...The Saudis also do not want  a nuclear Iran...so this will get bigger I believe...... interesting times we live in..


----------



## Knobby22 (10 May 2018)

Triathlete said:


> Israel have gone in before a number of years ago I believe and took out a few sites. They get a nod from the US behind the scenes and they will go again...They will not be waiting around for that to develop further...The Saudis also do not want  a nuclear Iran...so this will get bigger I believe...... interesting times we live in..



Good point, they probably can pinpoint most of the sites now.


----------



## noirua (10 May 2018)




----------



## luutzu (10 May 2018)

noirua said:


> North Korea will see sanctions lifted by China, South Korea and Japan.  Gradually America will lift its sanctions. Iran will be isolated.




They still have China, Russia, and I think India.

Europe want to trade with it but Uncle Sam just says no so I guess only good Arab oil will flow into Europe.


----------



## noirua (10 May 2018)

*Trump gives freed Americans flag-waving, wee-hours welcome*
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-welcome-freed-korean-americans-return-us-043021364--politics.html


----------



## noirua (11 May 2018)




----------



## noirua (11 May 2018)




----------



## noirua (12 May 2018)




----------



## luutzu (12 May 2018)

noirua said:


>





Let's hope Kim's plane didn't have an accident on the way. Better send fighter escorts and all that in case.


----------



## luutzu (12 May 2018)

noirua said:


>





Disarming Kim can be said for world peace. This move to Jerusalem is one big step towards Armageddon. No, not the one the Arabs would rise up against, but one God promises.


----------



## noirua (14 May 2018)




----------



## luutzu (14 May 2018)

noirua said:


>





They're still going to be spending now that a few hawks who've threatened to wiped them out are in the White House and State Department.

Just that now, after the European "powers" fall in line with Pax Americana, the Iranian will only have Russia and China to talk to and buy from.

I heard that Russia and China just got a whole lot closer to Tehran. The Chinese are offering to build trains and rail, pipelines heading East on that new silk belt and road will no doubt be on the drawing board... and they're offering loans, at mates' rates for sure.

How are you supposed to pivot to Asia when you've painted yourself into another possible major war with another Arab/Persian country. And at the same time slap your European "allies" in the face, making it more expensive for their plebs to buy oil and gas, shutting down potentially lucrative business opportunities for their corporations.

How are they supposed to pony up more Euros towards NATO and all that?

Betting on N/Korea coming in from the cold? The Viets or Fillipinos to welcome you?

Forget about history, European colonialsim and the cold proxy wars that destroy most of their country... The big middle kingdom is right in the neighbourhood; their brand of imperialism have not been tasted, that much, for quite a while. Who knows, it might be more nobler this time round.


----------



## Darc Knight (24 May 2018)

*Donald Trump blocking Twitter users violates their right to free speech, judge rules*
*http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-...ter-users-violates-right-to-free-spee/9794294*

**


----------



## Tisme (24 May 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> *Donald Trump blocking Twitter users violates their right to free speech, judge rules*
> *http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-...ter-users-violates-right-to-free-spee/9794294*
> 
> **





I can't blame him for trying, It must be hard for a man of intellect and talent to put up with halfwits and damaged goods.

It's always those no industrious drive drones who seem to self appoint themselves as guardians of twatter and farcebook sheriffs of the sheeple. Which is good for me and my interest in conversing with them.


----------



## basilio (24 May 2018)

Tisme said:


> I can't blame him for trying, It must be hard for a man of intellect and talent to put up with halfwits and damaged goods.




And my God Tisme it is just so hard isn't it ? Where are the intellectuals when you desperately need them ?


----------



## moXJO (24 May 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> *Donald Trump blocking Twitter users violates their right to free speech, judge rules*
> *http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-...ter-users-violates-right-to-free-spee/9794294*
> 
> **



Win for trolling. Thank you US law system. Try and block me now yanky snowflakes.


----------



## SirRumpole (24 May 2018)

Tisme said:


> I can't blame him for trying, It must be hard for a man of intellect and talent to put up with halfwits and damaged goods.




You mean his Cabinet ?


----------



## noirua (25 May 2018)




----------



## noirua (25 May 2018)

Donald Trump trumps Twitter?

Donald J Trump - 
45th President of the United States of America
	

		
			
		

		
	






https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump

*The Real Donald Trump - Twitter*
https://twitter.com/search?q=The Real Donald Trump - Twitter&src=typd

*Donald Trump - Twitter*
https://twitter.com/search?q=Donald+Trump+-
+Twitter&ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^search


----------



## noirua (25 May 2018)

Has Donald Trump cancelled the meeting with North Korea's leader because he knows that his countries main nuclear weapons site is damaged beyond repair? Kim Jong-Un has no real bargaining chips and Trump is too bigger statesman to speak on equal terms with this dictator. 

INSIDE NORTH KOREA: THE DEMOCRATIC
PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC
https://sway.com/1ZrC7EciVvyaqhxk?ref=Link&loc=play&MSCC=1527181120


----------



## Darc Knight (25 May 2018)

They say Trump got in first otherwise Rocket Man would've cancelled and then used that as propaganda "we don't need the Infidel Americans etc".


----------



## CanOz (25 May 2018)

Agree, this is just an ego match. It may have happened if Bolton and Pence could have kept thier traps shut.


----------



## noirua (26 May 2018)

Today, President Donald J. Trump issued an Executive Grant of Clemency (Full Pardon) posthumously to John Arthur “Jack” Johnson, the first African American Heavyweight Champion of the World, for a Mann Act conviction that occurred during a period of racial tension more than a century ago.  Johnson served 10 months in Federal prison for what many view as a racially motivated injustice.





Johnson in 1915

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Johnson_(boxer) https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=3594399

On June 10, 1946, Johnson died in a car crash on U.S. Highway 1 near Franklinton, North Carolina a small town near Raleigh, after racing angrily from a diner that refused to serve him.[77] He was taken to the closest black hospital, Saint Agnes Hospital in Raleigh. He was 68 years old at the time of his death. He was buried next to Etta Duryea Johnson at Graceland Cemetery in Chicago.[11] His grave was initially unmarked, but a stone that bears only the name "Johnson" now stands above the plots of Jack, Etta, and Irene Pineau.[11]


----------



## noirua (28 May 2018)




----------



## noirua (28 May 2018)

*That Moon Colony Will Be a Reality Sooner Than You Think*
https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles...rce=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=wh


----------



## noirua (30 May 2018)




----------



## noirua (1 June 2018)




----------



## noirua (2 June 2018)




----------



## luutzu (3 June 2018)

noirua said:


>





Poor United States. Having all that military might, all them thousands of military bases, controlling all the world's trade and financial referees... yet can't use any of it but let everyone else taking advantage of its weakness for buying people's stuff with IOUs denominated under currency they can print whenever.


----------



## noirua (5 June 2018)

Well done the Donald.  Very, very, velly, velly done indeedy, absolutely smashin'


----------



## noirua (5 June 2018)

Go on, get in there and give'm a good kicking down or not. That's the way to do it.


----------



## luutzu (5 June 2018)

noirua said:


> Well done the Donald.  Very, very, velly, velly done indeedy, absolutely smashin'





Was that sarcasm or genuine admiration? I can't tell.


----------



## noirua (8 June 2018)




----------



## noirua (8 June 2018)




----------



## noirua (8 June 2018)

Ah yes, one is on a roll here Donald, yippeeeeee, Donald bless America


----------



## Tisme (8 June 2018)

*Donald J. Trump*‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump
The Obama Administration is now accused of trying to give Iran secret access to the financial system of the United States. This is totally illegal. Perhaps we could get the 13 Angry Democrats to divert some of their energy to this “matter” (as Comey would call it). Investigate!


----------



## noirua (9 June 2018)




----------



## noirua (9 June 2018)




----------



## noirua (10 June 2018)

Good grief! What are you doing with all those underlings Mr President?  Yep!  The board game is China, Russia and the United States of America.  I said it's G7 minus 1, Really it's G1 minus 2 . Yep! Me Russia and China. Better off playing golf.


----------



## noirua (10 June 2018)




----------



## noirua (10 June 2018)

American small Business man: Mr President, I'm having great difficulty selling my garden gnomes as China keep exporting them to America really cheap.
The Donald: would a 25% tariff be OK bud.
Business man, well errr humm.
The Donald, OK OK I'll make it 50%.
Business man, thanks Mr President and we will all vote for you, including the garden...


----------



## noirua (10 June 2018)

I'm not sure how it goes for Canada but money spent on pathetic small farming in France by the EU has been protectionism too far for very many years, probably 50 years or more. If they don't get their subsidies the farmers block the ports, yes, they rule France on farming.

*Striking French farmers blockade roads, tourist sites and bridges amid protest over low prices*
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...es-amid-protest-over-low-prices-10408751.html


----------



## noirua (13 June 2018)

Yes, Germany is the con-artist of Europe. Number one, they gain by having a quite weak euro and at the same time benefiting by not paying their share on defence. If they had a German mark then their exports would be really expensive.


----------



## noirua (14 June 2018)




----------



## noirua (14 June 2018)




----------



## noirua (16 June 2018)

This video shows how right 'The Donald' is about knives in England all over:


*Five Teens Jailed For 'Revenge' Murder After Attacking Boy Like 'Vultures'*
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/en...or-revenge-murder_uk_5b228c19e4b09d7a3d7b1999


----------



## noirua (17 June 2018)

*Mara Salvatrucha* (*MS*), also known as *MS-13* (the _13_ representing their Sureño affiliation), is an international criminal gang that originated in Los Angeles, California, in the 1980s. The gang later spread to many parts of the continental United States, Canada, Mexico, and Central America, and is active in urban and suburban areas. Most members are of Central American origin, principally El Salvador.

Members of MS are characterized by tattoos covering the body, including the face, and by the use of their own sign language. They are notorious for their violence and a subcultural moral code based on merciless retribution. This cruelty of the distinguished members of the "Maras" or "Mareros" earned them a path to be recruited by the Sinaloa Cartel battling against Los Zetas in an ongoing drug war in Mexico.[5][6][7] Their wide-ranging activities have drawn the attention of the FBI and Immigration and Customs Enforcement, who have initiated wide-scale raids against known and suspected gang members, arresting hundreds across the United States.[8]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-13


----------



## noirua (18 June 2018)

An absolutely solid phenomenally fantastic and fabulously great performance indeed by America's first man.


----------



## noirua (21 June 2018)




----------



## noirua (23 June 2018)




----------



## noirua (23 June 2018)




----------



## noirua (24 June 2018)




----------



## luutzu (24 June 2018)

noirua said:


> An absolutely solid phenomenally fantastic and fabulously great performance indeed by America's first man.





The Donald might be offended if he see you using more adjectives than himself per sentence.

Gotta stay a few notches below a megalomaniac man.



He does have a talent one or two of our politician can't match though.

Saw a billboard the other day. Clive Palmer I think it was.

"Make Australia Great".

Yellow background, green writing, true blue Aussie flag over the entire map of Australia... just in case you miss how Aussie the man really is. And chubby Palmer in open collar business shirt... saying I'm a working man, but not that working... kinda a working man's boss.

But then I was thinking...

"Make Australia Great." Full Stop?

You got to add "Again" to give it The Donald great.

"Make Australia Great" doesn't have a sense of urgency. Not whiny enough. Not reminiscent for the good old days at all.

Hasn't Australia always been great? To make it great, but not again, seems like an aspiration rather than an emergency call to action.

Gotta put in "again" to imply greatness once attained are now lost. Lost due to [name your real or imagined enemy here].



Back to America.... Did you know that about half the population is considered poor? Half! In the richest country the world had ever know... are poor. i.e. not enough income or savings to have both food and shelter and education and healthcare.

At least the Chinese have an excuse: they're commies.


----------



## noirua (25 June 2018)

*Theodore Roosevelt's Quote From an African Proverb: "Speak Softly, and Carry a Big Stick".

Yep! Well I, The Donald, "Speaks **adverbially adjunct and Carries a Big Tweet** behind his back".*


----------



## PZ99 (27 June 2018)

Of course, what he doesn't say is the tariffs were taken to the election and any competent company would take a contingency which is exactly what they did. He just don't get it.


----------



## noirua (27 June 2018)

China exports $505 billion to the United States.
United States exports $130 billion to China.


----------



## Tisme (27 June 2018)

noirua said:


> China exports $505 billion to the United States.
> United States exports $130 billion to China.





China is now in a bear market condition = down~25%


----------



## SirRumpole (27 June 2018)

Balanced trade is the objective is it ?

We (Australia) looks forward to  trade equality with the USA.


----------



## luutzu (27 June 2018)

noirua said:


> China exports $505 billion to the United States.
> United States exports $130 billion to China.





I'm not sure how the accounting works with those figures though. 

Does "China" exporting to the US include Apples, HP and other American corporations products manufactured in China? 

How much of that $505B Chinese goods belong to American corporations?

But assume that none of those imports belong to any US business... and none of those imports create American retail or manufacturing jobs. The Chinese can just redirect their ships to Canada or Mexico, or Europe etc. etc. Then the US will either have to wage more wars on those countries or start incentivising its corporations to manufacture those products at home. Penalise them if they offshore jobs etc.

Looks like Trump's "vision and courage" stops at raising tariffs and calling the Chinese to play nice, because it's really unfair. 

Doing that will just make the Chinese laugh and the average American paying more for Chinese-made stuff.


----------



## luutzu (27 June 2018)

Tisme said:


> China is now in a bear market condition = down~25%




Just read on Reuters that China's new silk road into Europe is congesting the heck out of a land port in [Poland?]. 

From 1 freight per month in 2011 it's now about 500 [?] loco per month. With much more planned. 

Looks like they're going to flood that Euro-Asian landmass with goods, capital and military outposts soon enough.

Some German historian [?] was saying that whoever controls that landmass controls the world.


----------



## noirua (1 July 2018)

The Donald, should that not be 'Prices are too high'.


----------



## noirua (12 July 2018)




----------



## noirua (12 July 2018)




----------



## noirua (12 July 2018)

*Stormy Daniels arrested at strip club, lawyer slams 'setup'*
https://www.yahoo.com/news/lawyer-pr0n-star-stormy-daniels-says-she-arrested-054601132.html
https://twitter.com/search?q=Stormy Daniels&src=typd

*People are convinced these pictures show Melania Trump's body double*
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/people-think-fake-melania-trump-photos-233815795.html


----------



## Sdajii (13 July 2018)

luutzu said:


> The Donald might be offended if he see you using more adjectives than himself per sentence.
> 
> Gotta stay a few notches below a megalomaniac man.
> 
> ...




So you can simultaneously say it's stupid to say "Make America great again" while also pointing out that half the population is poor, despite being the wealthiest country in the world.

It's amazing how some people's heads attempt to function!


----------



## noirua (13 July 2018)

Sdajii said:


> So you can simultaneously say it's stupid to say "Make America great again" while also pointing out that half the population is poor, despite being the wealthiest country in the world.
> 
> It's amazing how some people's heads attempt to function!




The Donald is using the trickle down approach rather than bottom up. Mind you, it appears to be popular to castigate him. He does say what he is thinking and that was the Aussie approach as well - not sure it is now as we have to be careful not to discuss certain matters or people throw dirt in the faces of those who speak their mind, like it or not.


----------



## luutzu (13 July 2018)

Sdajii said:


> So you can simultaneously say it's stupid to say "Make America great again" while also pointing out that half the population is poor, despite being the wealthiest country in the world.
> 
> It's amazing how some people's heads attempt to function!




Trump's real definition of that American greatness is not the same as what most Americans, or sane human beings, have in mind.

Judging by his policies so far, what makes America great has nothing to do with helping those 50% of American either in poverty or living on the edge of it.

What makes America great, to Trump, is military power; giving tax cuts and make the rich a whole $1.5Trillion richer in his first year while at the same time gutting bloody food stamps, to kids and seniors; gutting higher education assistance to graduates - forget about the undergrads as most of them never got any help anyway. etc. etc.

Then in the second year he raise consumption taxes on Chinese goods to about the same amount as that $1.5T cut. Who will most likely be hit by that tax increase? That other half.

Did he reign in corporate excesses? No, he further deregulate banking, environmental protection, consumer financial protection etc. etc.

So if American greatness is to coddle the rich and annually increase military spending; going around the world playing that victim card, spitting into allies faces about their needing to buy more military hardware; all while kicking those who are already down, separating children from their refuge-seeking parents, telling most of those parents their kids have been put up for adoption or will be soon unless they pay $800 for a DNA test to help identify them [I didn't make that one up].

Oh yea, and that freakin wall. Estimated to cost some $20B. 

Does he know how many of those crumbling American roads and bridges or new rail lines; public housing; replacing lead-poisoning water system... na, it's those dam Mexicans and "migrants" that's ruining the country. Nothing else could possibly be to blame for it, apparently.


----------



## moXJO (13 July 2018)

luutzu said:


> Trump's real definition of that American greatness is not the same as what most Americans, or sane human beings, have in mind.
> 
> Judging by his policies so far, what makes America great has nothing to do with helping those 50% of American either in poverty or living on the edge of it.
> 
> ...



The flip side argument is that the Chinese trade restrictions will force manufacturing back to the US and create jobs at the lower end.

$20B on the wall will create jobs to build it. Will also keep the illegals out who take a lot of work. 

I'm not sure on the US job or wage figures of late?  
Possibly jobs up wages stagnant.

 I saw a few people complaining about bill inflation but no wage rises. Personally I think all governments need to cut back drastically.


----------



## luutzu (13 July 2018)

moXJO said:


> The flip side argument is that the Chinese trade restrictions will force manufacturing back to the US and create jobs at the lower end.
> 
> $20B on the wall will create jobs to build it. Will also keep the illegals out who take a lot of work.
> 
> ...




Just my opinions here but given the globalised world we now live in, I don't think "low-skill", labour intensive jobs are going to come back to the US. So they need to upskill their workforce.

The tariffs will just move jobs from China to other lower-waged countries anyway. That or the Chinese can simply open a JV or set up a subsidiary where the targets aren't. 

Illegals have been deported in the US long before Trump. Obama deported more than any other president combined, from memory. Trump just put a racist tag on the deportation. 

I think the reason they're being deported enmass is because the farms in the US are more consolidated and mechanised. No longer need anymore cheap labour. 

That and you really don't want competition for jobs where a non_English speaking illegal can win it. There's not a whole lot of jobs for that, not to mention the low waged, short-term nature of them.

You'd probably create more jobs, and end up with a more useful infrastructure, than that border fence.

Roads, rail, housing, replacing those lead-contaminated water system across some 300 cities of theirs etc.

The fence will just import another group of immigrant as master contractor anyway. I mean, who else build fences better than the Israeli so they'll win a big chunk of the work. 

Once built, then what? Even Trump admit they can just use rope to climb over if they have to.


----------



## moXJO (13 July 2018)

luutzu said:


> Once built, then what? Even Trump admit they can just use rope to climb over if they have to.




Given Trumps current trajectory I would say sharks with lasers patrolling the border.


----------



## luutzu (13 July 2018)

moXJO said:


> Given Trumps current trajectory I would say sharks with lasers patrolling the border.




Yea, with solar powered battery packs to electrify it too.

The US is going to have a lot of refugee problem soon. I mean they have been for a while but that's nothing compare to what's coming given their current adventures down south.

Just saw an interview where the guy list, on top of his head, some half a dozen countries in S/America the US is busily overthrowing or interfering in who should run it.

Apparently the US Justice Dept. is helping the Brazillian president [who's been caught on tape demanding kickbacks and is not very popular with the people]... they're helping him with "evidence" to indict former president and lead presidential candidate in this October's election.

Russia managed a few Facebook ads... this is quite something else.

There's a deadly riot a few days ago in Haiti when the IMF order its gov't to cut fuel/petrol subsidies. Raising the cost by 50%. When the average Haitian earn some $2.50 a day, that price hike to pay foreign debt won't go down well.

You can't pull stunts like that and not expect people to riot or flee to that city on the hill.

With today's social media, cameras and voice recording, you can't quietly take their kids away from them or mount machine guns on them fence either.

Funny how self-interest often ends up biting you in the azz.


----------



## Sdajii (13 July 2018)

luutzu said:


> Trump's real definition of that American greatness is not the same as what most Americans, or sane human beings, have in mind.
> 
> Judging by his policies so far, what makes America great has nothing to do with helping those 50% of American either in poverty or living on the edge of it.
> 
> ...




You say all this nonsense ignoring the reality that he is improving the lives of those people you are complaining about him not caring about, the ones you were lamenting being in a bad situation. Unemployment among minorities such as blacks and Hispanics is at an *all time low*. The situation for them has improved dramatically.

You make a long-winded post full of nonsense, again filled with contradictory and simply untrue information. The facts contradict your biased words. Stop blindly believing MSM lies and false implications and take a look at reality. Give it a go.


----------



## luutzu (13 July 2018)

Sdajii said:


> You say all this nonsense ignoring the reality that he is improving the lives of those people you are complaining about him not caring about, the ones you were lamenting being in a bad situation. Unemployment among minorities such as blacks and Hispanics is at an *all time low*. The situation for them has improved dramatically.
> 
> You make a long-winded post full of nonsense, again filled with contradictory and simply untrue information. The facts contradict your biased words. Stop blindly believing MSM lies and false implications and take a look at reality. Give it a go.




You really think those employment numbers are correct? Even figures on the general population aren't accurate.

For example, if a person is currently unemployed but are not looking for work - i.e. gave up, no freaking chance of getting one - that person is not considered unemployed.

If they work 1 or a couple of hours a week. That's employed. etc. etc.

And assuming that the figures Trump quoted are accurate, it is incidental to his policies. As if he'd give a damn about anyone, least of all colored people.

But yea, he said he has Latino friends, they're lovely people. A lot of them, lots of them, work for him. 

Maybe examine Trump's actual policy rather than his claims. See if they're helping people he supposedly care about. 

It should not be this easy to fool people. But apparently it is when you're a president.

Take healthcare... his admin stopped paying insurance companies subsidies, reduce 75% funding to community groups helping the poor choosing their healthcare coverage. He just cut assistance to AIDS/HIV sufferer. 

But yea, it's only poor, old, brown, black, aids suffering homosexuals and illegals he's tough on. For everyone else there's plenty of love. Just like Jesus hate everyone else but love his own people.


----------



## noirua (13 July 2018)

moXJO said:


> The flip side argument is that the Chinese trade restrictions will force manufacturing back to the US and create jobs at the lower end.
> 
> $20B on the wall will create jobs to build it. Will also keep the illegals out who take a lot of work.
> 
> ...




It will take a lot of people to build the wall in an inhospitable place. The illegals could be used as cheap labour, still getting much more cash than where they came from. Thus all will be happy for quite a few years.
Then The Donald could say he made the Mexicans build the wall and as they were paid less than Americans and paid American tax, they also helped pay for it.


----------



## noirua (14 July 2018)




----------



## noirua (14 July 2018)

The Donald certainly speaks his mind and doesn't hide his views.  Mind you he is the right man business wise for America.


----------



## Tisme (14 July 2018)

Sdajii said:


> . Unemployment among minorities such as blacks and Hispanics is at an *all time low*. The situation for them has improved dramatically.




Yes they are hailing it as the pinnacle moment of colour blind employment. Seemingly achieved without Sarah Hanson Young, Tanya or Penny forcing their distortions into the mix.


----------



## noirua (15 July 2018)




----------



## noirua (15 July 2018)




----------



## noirua (15 July 2018)




----------



## noirua (16 July 2018)




----------



## noirua (18 July 2018)

The Donald thinks - How can I please Putin and my lot. Yes, I'll say I've misquoted as they are all quite dumb compared to me, the greatest President since... well the greatest. Putin knows I'm on his side as war or not is the only really important matter here.
[ Well done the Donald - the best President of America, for Americans, ever ]


----------



## basilio (19 July 2018)

On  the use of double negatives to make everything absolutely clear..
 

Who among us hasn't not used accidentally on purpose what wasn't not surely unlikely to be perhaps certainly correctly misconstrued language that didn't sound incorrect until we misread the transcript? #*doublenegative*

A few many people do not dislike this Tweet. 

I couldn’t possibly fail to disagree with you less

I wasn’t totally noncommittal about having had negative thoughts about not liking it, frankly.


----------



## basilio (19 July 2018)




----------



## noirua (21 July 2018)




----------



## noirua (21 July 2018)

Battle lines are drawn; this should be great fun - viewed from Australia of course.

Mind you, America slapped gigantic fines on banks from Europe. That included the UK who were never really part of Europe - only pretending to be and failing miserably at that. Scotland is only a midget country pretending to be big. Northern Ireland is a pain in the... and Gibraltar is an odd part of the UK tagged on to Spain. Mind you, WA is sometimes seen as tagged on to Australia or is that just their opinion?


----------



## luutzu (22 July 2018)

noirua said:


> Battle lines are drawn; this should be great fun - viewed from Australia of course.
> 
> Mind you, America slapped gigantic fines on banks from Europe. That included the UK who were never really part of Europe - only pretending to be and failing miserably at that. Scotland is only a midget country pretending to be big. Northern Ireland is a pain in the... and Gibraltar is an odd part of the UK tagged on to Spain. Mind you, WA is sometimes seen as tagged on to Australia or is that just their opinion?





How does preventing anti-competitive, monopolistic practises - a foreign one at that - taking advantage of the US?

That's the EU trying to not be taken advantage of by US corporation.


----------



## noirua (22 July 2018)

*US official: trade war with China is not personal, it is just business*
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong...fficial-trade-war-china-not-personal-its-just


----------



## noirua (22 July 2018)

luutzu said:


> How does preventing anti-competitive, monopolistic practises - a foreign one at that - taking advantage of the US?
> 
> That's the EU trying to not be taken advantage of by US corporation.




If the Donald says what it is, it is, and it is what it was and what he wants, and if it isn't, it still is, and of course what it was and what he wants he gets. If you don't get that you must be Angela Merkel.


----------



## Tisme (22 July 2018)




----------



## Tisme (22 July 2018)




----------



## notting (23 July 2018)

I think we have a new No.1
Drum roll......................


----------



## tech/a (23 July 2018)

#183 #184

Pick your fights!


----------



## basilio (23 July 2018)

That  Internet flame to Iran is potent.

I don't think even Hitler would have been as inflammatory as that before WW2. I think someone is looking for an excuse to go to war.

Wag the Dog boys..!


----------



## Darc Knight (23 July 2018)

And here lies the problem. On a domestic front we know Trump is a dodgey/crocked Cat, but some of these other world leaders are so much worse.
Iran wants trade sanctions lifted ..... or a Summit?


----------



## notting (23 July 2018)

Meanwhile just remember this -


----------



## basilio (23 July 2018)

I'm wondering....
Just what are the diplomats in the State Department thinking when Donald Trump puts out an incendiary all CAPITALS tweet which effectively threatens  pre emptive military action on Iran if President Rouhani puts a foot out of line again.

An this in a region which is choke point for the majority of oil supplies around the world (The Straits of Hormuz)


----------



## basilio (23 July 2018)

The Straits of Hormuz.

*What's at stake if trading at Strait of Hormuz is disrupted?*
Iran hints that it could retaliate against US sanctions by disrupting trade at world's busiest oil transit lane.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/07/stake-trading-strait-hormuz-disrupted-180705055824211.html

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/07/play-lion-tail-rouhani-warns-trump-180722162909627.html


----------



## bellenuit (25 July 2018)

Is this his most laughable tweet to date?


----------



## HelloU (25 July 2018)

basilio said:


> I'm wondering....
> Just what are the diplomats in the State Department thinking when Donald Trump puts out an incendiary all CAPITALS tweet which effectively threatens  pre emptive military action on Iran if President Rouhani puts a foot out of line again.
> 
> An this in a region which is choke point for the majority of oil supplies around the world (The Straits of Hormuz)



I reckon they are thinking about the allowances they will get whilst assessing the sand from the top floor of Burj _A_l Arab Jumeirah


----------



## noirua (28 July 2018)

Oh yes indeed, he is very great in Michigan and flavour of the month. Anyone who does not vote for him is a silly billy, so phenomenally magnificent is he in his most wonderful greatness so abounding upon the great lands of America.

By the way, The Donald. It should be an African... and not a African...


----------



## noirua (28 July 2018)

The Donald is certainly good in business for America.


----------



## noirua (29 July 2018)




----------



## noirua (29 July 2018)

Really great how I've got all of Europe in a tizzy as they do not see that I, the greatest President ever of Russia ooops sorry, United States of America, is trying to break up the EU. Our 52nd state the UK is doing a grand job even though they are in a tizzy as well.

ASF share competition: https://www.aussiestockforums.com/t...g-competition-entry-thread.34114/#post-989958


----------



## noirua (30 July 2018)




----------



## noirua (30 July 2018)

*Current Status - all are very welcome*
 ASF share competition:https://www.aussiestockforums.com/t...g-competition-entry-thread.34114/#post-989958


----------



## noirua (30 July 2018)

ASF share competition:https://www.aussiestockforums.com/t...g-competition-entry-thread.34114/#post-989958


----------



## bellenuit (1 August 2018)

Yep. First Giuliani and now Trump himself. Obviously that know that they are in trouble.


----------



## luutzu (1 August 2018)

noirua said:


> ASF share competition:https://www.aussiestockforums.com/t...g-competition-entry-thread.34114/#post-989958





Done more good or more bad? 

More stupid things or more smart things?

More humane, moral, legal... 

More don't always mean gooder Trump. You bigly dumb idiot.


----------



## luutzu (1 August 2018)

bellenuit said:


> Yep. First Giuliani and now Trump himself. Obviously that know that they are in trouble.





He's half right on that one. 

Hillary and her campaign did collude with the DNC to first get her nominated. Then collude with those wishing to win president Hillary favours to push for Trump to be nominated to run against her.

WikiLeaks did show evidence of Clinton's strategists dreaming about Trump winning the Republican race. Heck, Billy boy was the one recommending Trump run again during one of their golf games together. 

So if there's collusion with the commies (who aren't communists anymore)... shouldn't Clinton be questioned too? 

But Trump is going to have a second term though. That's unless the DNC have their own revolution and not rig their primaries like last time... unless that happens and a more progressive candidate steps up, Trump is going to win again. I mean, it's like having a friendly idiot looking after someone else's Fort Knox.


----------



## notting (1 August 2018)

I must admit.  I loved this............


----------



## noirua (6 August 2018)

I'm beating down North Korea and have Iran on the ropes. Next is to split up the EU. Need to have strong words with Japan, can't have them doing deals with the EU - The Donald, President of USA - as shown on hat.

Keep at it The Donald you are doing so very, very well.


----------



## Darc Knight (6 August 2018)

noirua said:


> I'm beating down North Korea and have Iran on the ropes. Next is to split up the EU. Need to have strong words with Japan, can't have them doing deals with the EU - The Donald, President of USA - as shown on hat.
> 
> Keep at it The Donald you are doing so very, very well.




Beaten North Korea down? Looks like they've increased their firepower and are now trying to arm other dangerous States.
The Kim/Trump Summit is looking more and more like a PR stunt with zero substance. One of Trump's signature tactics - appeal to the fan boys.


----------



## Tisme (6 August 2018)

noirua said:


> I'm beating down North Korea and have Iran on the ropes. Next is to split up the EU. Need to have strong words with Japan, can't have them doing deals with the EU - The Donald, President of USA - as shown on hat.
> 
> Keep at it The Donald you are doing so very, very well.





My add blocker is preventing display of that tweet on this board, but it links to
_*"Iran, and it’s economy, is going very bad, and fast! I will meet, or not meet, it doesn’t matter - it is up to them!*_"


----------



## noirua (15 August 2018)

The Republican Party sends its apologies for all the statements put out by the President, a Republican, we are very very sorry indeed. However, Long may it continue.


----------



## Tisme (16 August 2018)

Shutting out the Obama people who had high level access to secrets to stop feeding them. Latest John Brennan

His agenda:


----------



## noirua (19 August 2018)

Deleted by The Donald, offering advice to President Putin on the best way to present himself when he next visits the Whitehouse:


----------



## Tisme (19 August 2018)




----------



## luutzu (19 August 2018)

Tisme said:


>





Jared Kushner and my daughter having access is no biggie. They never read any of them anyway. 

When will these soldiers learn that emperors always need their ego stroked.


----------



## luutzu (19 August 2018)

noirua said:


> Deleted by The Donald, offering advice to President Putin on the best way to present himself when he next visits the Whitehouse:





That was a few reasons why Clinton and the CIA wanted Yelsin in "power". Sold out the entire country's assets for about $5B.


----------



## Tisme (19 August 2018)

luutzu said:


> Jared Kushner and my daughter having access is no biggie. They never read any of them anyway.
> 
> When will these soldiers learn that emperors always need their ego stroked.




Agreed, the Washington public service have had there way so long they are like children refusing to give up the teet. Trump did warn capitol hill he would gut the fatcats.


----------



## basilio (22 August 2018)

Think there will be a fresh new load of tweets about Donald Trump as this book takes off. Very, very biting.
And this is a  former key Republician campaigner.

* Everything Trump Touches Dies review: a poison dart in the neck of the Republican monster *
 Donald Trump 

Political consultant Rick Wilson is horrified by what his party has done – and his book is much more than a brutally enjoyable roasting of those responsible

Charles Kaiser

Tue 21 Aug 2018 16.00 AEST   Last modified on Wed 22 Aug 2018 01.16 AEST

*Shares*
3936




The right, Wilson writes, is ‘merrily on board with a lunatic with delusions of godhood’. Photograph: NurPhoto/NurPhoto via Getty Images
The Republican political consultant Rick Wilson has filled his new book with more unvarnished truths about Donald Trump than anyone else in the American political establishment has offered. Wilson never holds back. That is especially refreshing at a moment when so many mainstream journalists still feel compelled to be “fair” to our psychotic president – and so few Democratic officeholders have called for the impeachment that Trump so richly deserves.

Choice cuts 1
_The Trump administration has been “a hotbed of remarkably obvious pay-to-play and crony capitalist game-playing. How obvious? Think 1970s Times Square hooker on the corner obvious … The degree to which this president has monetized the presidency for the direct benefit of himself, his soft-jawed offspring, and his far-flung empire of bull**** makes the Teapot Dome scandal look like a warm-up act in the Corruption Olympics.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...p-touches-dies-review-rick-wilson-republicans
_
Who is Rick Wilson
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Wilson_(political_consultant)_
_


----------



## Tisme (22 August 2018)

basilio said:


> Think there will be a fresh new load of tweets about Donald Trump as this book takes off. Very, very biting.
> And this is a  former key Republician campaigner.
> 
> * Everything Trump Touches Dies review: a poison dart in the neck of the Republican monster *
> ...




I think it will be just another song book to haters and white anters, but the general public are past listening to the constant dirty laundry campaign being waged by the impotents. You only have to look on farcebook to see the millenials are starting to warm to Trump.


----------



## basilio (23 August 2018)

Tisme said:


> I think it will be just another song book to haters and white anters, but the general public are past listening to the constant dirty laundry campaign being waged by the impotents. You only have to look on farcebook to see the millenials are starting to warm to Trump.



Millenials for Trump .  That's just great.  This is definately the group that is going to support this creature isn't it ?.  Perhaps the evangicals as well ? We know that Trump is great figher for religious freedom despite.
_
“All the things evangelicals had said for generations that made a candidate anathema were suddenly just fine … Being a goddamned degenerate pussy-grabber with a lifetime of adultery, venality, and dishonesty is not, to my knowledge, one of the core tenets of the Christian faith … Trump has opened entirely new theological avenues … There is literally not one aspect of Trump’s behavior as a citizen, a husband, and as a man that shows the slightest scintilla of repentance for anything, ever.”_


----------



## noirua (25 August 2018)

Basically guys they've got me on the ropes and now I'm gonna strangle them with it - The Donald

Now wasn't that a great interview and The Donald rides on through the storm. Climbs the wall of worry and remains at the top of his game.


----------



## noirua (2 September 2018)




----------



## noirua (15 September 2018)

*Police: Mother of MS-13 victim fatally struck by driver at vigil*
http://longisland.news12.com/story/...s-13-victim-fatally-struck-by-driver-at-vigil


----------



## noirua (16 September 2018)




----------



## noirua (26 September 2018)

Ring, ring, ring, ring, ring, ring... Hi Vlad, everything OK on the oil and gas front?  Yep Donald, thanks for getting those Iran oil sales suspended the price has gone up a treat..... Donald, that's great, see you at the meeting next year and make sure you look fed up..... Vlad, and make sure you're looking your grumpy old self Donald.


----------



## Darc Knight (26 September 2018)

Ring ring??? I thought the FBI traced internet data going back and forth from Trump Tower and the Kremlin early on during the Election campaign?


----------



## Tink (26 September 2018)

The latest tweet..


----------



## Tisme (26 September 2018)

Tink said:


> The latest tweet..





Meanwhile the USA legally poisons its citizens with weed so that in the not too distant it will be giant Toronto with ever present smell of burning ganja and the massive wealth divide between super rich and indolent poor.


----------



## CanOz (26 September 2018)

Tisme I'm used to your waffling on but wtf was that last post meant to say?


----------



## Tisme (26 September 2018)

CanOz said:


> Tisme I'm used to your waffling on but wtf was that last post meant to say?




You throw and self gratifying insult then ask for something ... not gonna happen sunshine.

I'll let you consult Tutor Google for a crash course in comprehension.


----------



## CanOz (26 September 2018)

Two fat fingers in a row, did your laptop break and you're having to rough it on a smart phone?


----------



## noirua (9 October 2018)




----------



## noirua (9 October 2018)




----------



## Tink (18 October 2018)




----------



## luutzu (18 October 2018)

noirua said:


>





It's nice to see people getting free holidays on taxpayers dime ey. 

Seriously, what was the official excuse for the trip again?


----------



## luutzu (18 October 2018)

Tink said:


> The latest tweet..





I guess South America and its "drug cartels" are causing trouble again. Needing a few CIA mission, a few payload and a couple communist and saintly priests being removed.


----------



## Sdajii (18 October 2018)

luutzu said:


> It's nice to see people getting free holidays on taxpayers dime ey.
> 
> Seriously, what was the official excuse for the trip again?




Do you honestly think that in the context of the economy of the USA, an international trip by the president and/or first lady has a cost of anything relevant? If it brings any goodwill at all, the value to the USA is far greater than the cost. Surely this is obvious even to someone as desperate to hate them as much as you. Also, do you honestly think the Trumps could care about the cost of a trip to Africa? The total cost doesn't register as a blip on the radar in the context of either their family or the USA. Are they supposed to stay silent and cooped up in a box rather than get positive international exposure?

If only there was medication for this level of TDS.


----------



## Triple B (18 October 2018)

Tisme said:


> Meanwhile the USA legally poisons its citizens with weed so that in the not too distant it will be giant Toronto with ever present smell of burning ganja and the massive wealth divide between super rich and indolent poor.




Dude relax. roll yourself a big joint and chill


----------



## luutzu (18 October 2018)

Sdajii said:


> Do you honestly think that in the context of the economy of the USA, an international trip by the president and/or first lady has a cost of anything relevant? If it brings any goodwill at all, the value to the USA is far greater than the cost. Surely this is obvious even to someone as desperate to hate them as much as you. Also, do you honestly think the Trumps could care about the cost of a trip to Africa? The total cost doesn't register as a blip on the radar in the context of either their family or the USA. Are they supposed to stay silent and cooped up in a box rather than get positive international exposure?
> 
> If only there was medication for this level of TDS.




Trump Derangement Syndrome? 

I thought right wingers doesn't like waste and welfare. That and aren't all expenses borne by taxpayers supposed to be on stuff that further the common wealth, not personal relaxation and PR stunts?

Oh, it's a goodwill tour. Trying to show Africans how great America's First Lady is. 

Here's a few ideas to gain goodwill that costs nothing.

1. Stop being a freakin racist and call them "sh!thole countries". 
2. Stop droning the crap out of them whenever, wherever. 
3. Stop propping up dictators, extract their resources then point to how impoverish they are.

But sure, going around Africa dressed like colonial masters will bring goodwill and love. 

And what does the insignificant cost of a trip in relation to the entire economy got to do with it?

How much you do reckon it cost to feed hungry AMERICAN kids with a breakfast at school - because their parents are so poor the kids went to bed hungry. How much does that cost in relation to the entire economy?

Did Trump cut it? You bet he did. Can't afford it, he and his rich pals say. 

How about sheltering homeless Americans? 

Did you know that during Trump's first year, New York state spent the same amount of money to beef up security around Trump's Tower to protect the dear First Lady and her son as they spent on sheltering the homeless for that entire year?

Why did they have to spent it? Because she and her son decided the WH isn't good enough. Baron need time to adjust and can't suddenly be moved away from his friends and schooling. 

That's alright though. Schooling is very important. 

Not that important for kids in poor neighbourhood apparently. No funding for heat or AC. Kids literally shivers in class during winter, sweat in mould infested classroom during summer. 

How are you going to pay for everything right?

I guess every penny counts. Just some doesn't. 

Another thing, and this is because I like you... you should learn to know when you're being screwed. When a con artist is feeding you bs, it helps to know what you're eating. 

Not only would that be good for your health, it also stop you from believing something stupid that harm others.


----------



## luutzu (18 October 2018)

Tink said:


>





Did you know what "red tape" he cut?

His own EPA estimate that his new fuel inefficient policy will result in some hundreds of preventable childhood death from asthma and other illness children in poor neighbourhood suffer from. That's his own EPA. 

But meh... red tape gets cut though. Hurrah. Another great day for everyday American.


----------



## Tisme (18 October 2018)

Triple B said:


> Dude relax. roll yourself a big joint and chill





I am always chilled, so I don't need any karma or mind altering drugs to get there.


----------



## fiftyeight (19 October 2018)

Tisme said:


> I am always chilled, so I don't need any karma or mind altering drugs to get there.




If you have never had drugs, how can you know that there is not another level of chill that you are yet to experience?


----------



## Sdajii (19 October 2018)

luutzu said:


> Trump Derangement Syndrome?
> 
> I thought right wingers doesn't like waste and welfare. That and aren't all expenses borne by taxpayers supposed to be on stuff that further the common wealth, not personal relaxation and PR stunts?
> 
> ...




Wow, that was quite a tantrum, you got as full on as you did irrelevant. The accuracy of being labelled as a TDS sufferer obviously got to you. Easier and less painful would be to be honest with yourself. Your call


----------



## Tisme (19 October 2018)

fiftyeight said:


> If you have never had drugs, how can you know that there is not another level of chill that you are yet to experience?




Why would I look for something that is redundant? I don't need a mind altering and body damaging crutch to get through life.

I'm not too sure you pushing illegal drugs is a good look for the forum.


----------



## Tisme (19 October 2018)

Tisme said:


> Why would I look for something that is redundant? I don't need a mind altering and body damaging crutch to get through life.
> 
> I'm not too sure you pushing illegal drugs is a good look for the forum.




Kind of a segue metaphor for a lot of SJWs I suspect:


----------



## moXJO (19 October 2018)

luutzu said:


> It's nice to see people getting free holidays on taxpayers dime ey.
> 
> Seriously, what was the official excuse for the trip again?



Trump doesn't take a wage does he?


----------



## Darc Knight (19 October 2018)

Tisme said:


> Why would I look for something that is redundant? I don't need a mind altering and body damaging crutch to get through life.
> 
> I'm not too sure you pushing illegal drugs is a good look for the forum.




Supposed to be a cure for all that ails yah isn't it?

Might help with that pecker problem of yours!


----------



## Tisme (19 October 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> Supposed to be a cure for all that ails yah isn't it?
> 
> Might help with that pecker problem of yours!




Well there's that I suppose:- I could engage with attractive women without having to worry about a mobile tent getting between us. Is mary jane cheaper than amyl nitrite poppers?


----------



## luutzu (19 October 2018)

Sdajii said:


> Wow, that was quite a tantrum, you got as full on as you did irrelevant. The accuracy of being labelled as a TDS sufferer obviously got to you. Easier and less painful would be to be honest with yourself. Your call




Any decent, free thinking person would be offended by everything that Trump say. Now, I believe that almost everyone is decent... that leave them not thinking straight.

As to be offended because Trump is Trump. I can care less about that conman, failed business "self made" psychopathic, immoral, know nothing idiot. 

Some man were born great, most have greatness thrust upon them. Some of those decided that that's when you make the most money and to hell with everything and everyone else.

And it's not a tantrum, it's a rant, with facts


----------



## luutzu (19 October 2018)

moXJO said:


> Trump doesn't take a wage does he?




Yea, he generously take $1. How great is that, right?

Then you saw (from independent news) that he also golfed some 220 days in his first years - at his own golf resort. Where, it so happen, the American taxpayers are charged by him and his investors for every freakin bed any advisors, hanger on, security detail etc. etc. 

And oh, he also doubled the annual membership fee to his d'Largo [or some faux cheap pretentious name] country club... where he happen to be there quite frequently and you know.. if you join and he happen to also be there when you're there, might get noticed and things might get done. That or you can pose with "the Football".. you know, launch code for nuclear annihilation. 

Then there's the tax cuts estimated to benefit his own family alone some $1.5B.

Then there's his beloved daughter and her hubby someone managing to gain some $250M just last year. And not having to pay a dime in tax. 

What's the wage for a president? A measly $500K?


----------



## moXJO (19 October 2018)

luutzu said:


> Yea, he generously take $1. How great is that, right?
> 
> Then you saw (from independent news) that he also golfed some 220 days in his first years - at his own golf resort. Where, it so happen, the American taxpayers are charged by him and his investors for every freakin bed any advisors, hanger on, security detail etc. etc.
> 
> ...



How many people has he personally employed in his private life compared to other presidents.
All presidents waste money.
Trump is full of faults. 
But the weekly (almost daily) "outrage pr0n" gets old quick.


----------



## moXJO (19 October 2018)

luutzu said:


> .
> 
> And it's not a tantrum, it's a rant, with facts



Well....  part fact, part fiction.
Facts are not feelings.


----------



## luutzu (19 October 2018)

moXJO said:


> How many people has he personally employed in his private life compared to other presidents.
> All presidents waste money.
> Trump is full of faults.
> But the weekly (almost daily) "outrage pr0n" gets old quick.




Include or exclude undocumented? Include or exclude those he ripped off, not paid "because of a bad job"?

How many other president "grab 'em" by the p**sy and bragged about it?

How many actually went to school and actually do some reading and learning? Actually know countries and history their empire oversees?

The list of qualification needed but Trump doesn't come close to having is very long.

And any idiot with daddy's hundreds of millions can hire people and "self made" themselves.


----------



## Tisme (19 October 2018)

luutzu said:


> Any decent, free thinking person would be offended ..
> ....




Decency is an arbitrary concept, it's deeds that are the true measure of moral authority.


----------



## luutzu (19 October 2018)

moXJO said:


> Well....  part fact, part fiction.
> Facts are not feelings.




Facts lead to either admiration, respect, joy or anger. 

Just like good character lead to admirable result; lying bs artistry lead to the scamming of the people.

btw, did you know that in Trump's first couple years, [two year not over yet]... the US see the greatest transfer of wealth from the poor and middle class to the billionaires?

But sure, the poor are just lazy and jealous.


----------



## moXJO (19 October 2018)

luutzu said:


> Facts lead to either admiration, respect, joy or anger.
> 
> Just like good character lead to admirable result; lying bs artistry lead to the scamming of the people.
> 
> ...



He is about to screw them over more apparently by cutting social welfare.


----------



## luutzu (19 October 2018)

Tisme said:


> Decency is an arbitrary concept, it's deeds that are the true measure of moral authority.




Sometime, thought lead to deeds. Deed often need an opportunity.

Trump has the opportunity, the authority. How has his deeds measure up?

Taking food from kids and poverty stricken people... Jesus would not approve.

Overlooking the literally butchering of people because there's money to be made, and actually saying and repeating it like it's something obviously honourable... 

A slimy garden slug have more character than that.


----------



## moXJO (19 October 2018)

luutzu said:


> .
> 
> And any idiot with daddy's hundreds of millions can hire people and "self made" themselves.



Who are we measuring against? 
Obama the drone slayer? 
Bush the war monger? 
Or Bill Clinton the sex machine?


----------



## luutzu (19 October 2018)

moXJO said:


> He is about to screw them over more apparently by cutting social welfare.




He and his GOP are gutting pretty much everything the working poor, the sick and dying need to survive. 

It's not enough that they have more money than their great grandchildren will know what to do with... it's just kicking people in the teeth for the fun of it. What a bunch of psychos. 

But they're betting that the peasants will just put up with it. If only they read a bit of history, even their own short history... they'd know that if you create too much dead wood, some aspiring group of people will put them to use and burn the place up in a real hurry.


----------



## luutzu (19 October 2018)

moXJO said:


> Who are we measuring against?
> Obama the drone slayer?
> Bush the war monger?
> Or Bill Clinton the sex machine?




I don't admire any of those other idiots and scammer either. 

I used to admire Obama until I read up on his policies.


----------



## moXJO (19 October 2018)

luutzu said:


> I don't admire any of those other idiots and scammer either.
> 
> I used to admire Obama until I read up on his policies.



Rumor is that mrs Obama is going to take a run. I think she would have a good chance as well, given the toxicity of the current divide.


----------



## moXJO (19 October 2018)

luutzu said:


> He and his GOP are gutting pretty much everything the working poor, the sick and dying need to survive.
> 
> It's not enough that they have more money than their great grandchildren will know what to do with... it's just kicking people in the teeth for the fun of it. What a bunch of psychos.
> 
> But they're betting that the peasants will just put up with it. If only they read a bit of history, even their own short history... they'd know that if you create too much dead wood, some aspiring group of people will put them to use and burn the place up in a real hurry.



Is the idea to get people working and off welfare? 
Americans are pretty hardcore against handouts.

I'm not up to speed on whats official policy. And media has dirtied the water on whats real.


----------



## moXJO (19 October 2018)

luutzu said:


> I don't admire any of those other idiots and scammer either.
> 
> I used to admire Obama until I read up on his policies.



Natural progression my son
Trump combines all the president’s from Regan to Obama in one ugly package.

He is value for money. 
Media will literally go broke once he is gone.


----------



## luutzu (19 October 2018)

moXJO said:


> Rumor is that mrs Obama is going to take a run. I think she would have a good chance as well, given the toxicity of the current divide.




Maybe, but judging by how Trump got into office, it seem that the American plebs aren't at all happy with the Obamas. That's why they weren't with HRC.

Saw a few recent lectures by Chris Hedges on the collapse of the American empire... he went around the US to write his latest book and said that... shite, it's all falling apart.

That the average American have been conned and scammed for so long by so many administration that while most of those who voted for Trump doesn't like him personally, they find it cathartic, expressing their anger and despair when he call out the Clintons and the Obamas for being Wall St stooges (among other names). 

That and there's some hope that Trump keep his promise to put his business genius to help them put food on the table. 

You cannot switch and bait people for too long. The peasants might not be educated but they know when they've been had. 

So far the narrative of illegals, lazy welfare queens causing it might be believed. 

The thing that Hedges points to that would quicken the collapse is the US greenback being the world's currency reserve. Once that's gone, no more free money you can just print. 

The EU are being forced to diversify its foreign exchange into other major currency, namely the Yuan. A fair few number of poor countries are also diversifying out of the greenbacks, into the Yuan and the EU... they do not want their cash and business to freeze when Washington put a sanction on them. 

Seriously, we'd be lucky if we survive this century as a specie.


----------



## luutzu (19 October 2018)

moXJO said:


> Natural progression my son
> Trump combines all the president’s from Regan to Obama in one ugly package.
> 
> He is value for money.
> Media will literally go broke once he is gone.




Yea, true that.


----------



## luutzu (19 October 2018)

moXJO said:


> Is the idea to get people working and off welfare?
> Americans are pretty hardcore against handouts.
> 
> I'm not up to speed on whats official policy. And media has dirtied the water on whats real.




They've gutted welfare to able-bodied people a long time ago. 

I odn't know the details, but in some state they already have laws where you're only allow some 5 years of "entitlement" during your lifetime.

This latest round is to get sick and elderly grannies back to work. They literally say it's given them "freedom, dignity" and some bs at the press conference. 

There's also cuts to nutrition programme for primary school kids in poor neighbourhood. That is, they know that those kids goes to bed hungry and having school is where they can get a full meal... yet they're cutting it.

Just yesterday, Trump ordered [or proposed] a 5% across the board cut to all domestic social services. 

See, it's the budget deficit. Gotta be responsible and spend wisely once you gave $2Trillion and some to corporations and the rich.


----------



## Tisme (19 October 2018)

luutzu said:


> Sometime, thought lead to deeds. Deed often need an opportunity.
> 
> Trump has the opportunity, the authority. How has his deeds measure up?
> 
> ...




I suppose it's a matter of navigating through the overt bias of the US press and getting to the people themselves. Latest Gallop poll shows his approval rating is same as Clinton, Obama, Reagan for same period. Nixon was 14% higher ... go figure.


----------



## luutzu (19 October 2018)

Tisme said:


> I suppose it's a matter of navigating through the overt bias of the US press and getting to the people themselves. Latest Gallop poll shows his approval rating is same as Clinton, Obama, Reagan for same period. Nixon was 14% higher ... go figure.




The US mainstream press are not bias against Trump. Sure, Fox cannot see anything wrong with most of what Trump does, but the "liberal" press focuses on minor, ad-grabbing misdemeanours and never goes for any serious analysis.

Well, maybe now and then when the editor is off on holidays. 

Nixon is said to be their last liberal president. He was the one that passed the Clean Air Act and other regulation. Imagine that, passing laws and actually enforcing it to protect air and water. 

That's a lot more impressive than mouthing off about cleanliness is very, very, very important "to me", very important. Then set about not doing anything to enforce against polluters. 

From Chomsky's collection "Who Rules the World" (I think), he discussed how Nixon got ousted not so much for the Watergate scandal but more because he call rich people like Watson Jr of IBM bad names. 

That Watergate is like petty crimes compare to the breaking of *COINTELPRO*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

The FBI doing illegal entrapment, murder, assassination and general policing of American hippies and activists didn't get any mention.


----------



## Sdajii (19 October 2018)

This is brilliant! You're so deep in TDS, if I hadn't seen several of your other posts I'd think you were satirising the insanity of TDS.



luutzu said:


> Any decent, free thinking person would be offended by everything that Trump say.




Hahaha! HAHAHAHA! Ah, this is brilliant! You're so clouded by your derangement that you literally see everything he says as offensive. In reality, of course, while he may say things which offend snowflakes from time to time with some validity, obviously the vast majority of what he says has no legitimate reason to offend anyone.



> As to be offended because Trump is Trump. I can care less about that conman, failed business "self made" psychopathic, immoral, know nothing idiot.




If a 'failed businessman' is a billionaire, he'll probably do until a successful businessman comes along! It's really funny when people like you say he's a failure, he knows nothing, he's ineffective, etc... when he literally came along with zero political experience, the entire political system and media against him, and on a tiny, tiny percentage of their official budget, not even including the opposition of the entire system, be comfortably beat them! And you STILL believe he is ineffective etc! He did what no one else could do while everyone else was trying to stop him. I'm not sure what your bar for 'capable' is, perhaps you'd like to give an example of someone?



> And it's not a tantrum, it's a rant, with facts




The fact that you believe your nonsense is factual makes your tantrum even more of a tantrum.

Amazing case of TDS.


----------



## Sdajii (19 October 2018)

luutzu said:


> The US mainstream press are not bias against Trump.




Hahaha! HAHAHAHAHAHA! BAHAHAG BHAHHAHAHA AH HAHAHA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's amazing! Unless you're an incredibly patient, extreme troll, you are actually somehow capable of believing that!


----------



## luutzu (19 October 2018)

Sdajii said:


> Hahaha! HAHAHAHAHAHA! BAHAHAG BHAHHAHAHA AH HAHAHA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> It's amazing! Unless you're an incredibly patient, extreme troll, you are actually somehow capable of believing that!




Lao Tzu said, the highest truth are rarely seen and hardly known 

I don't mean to be rude and stuff, but you really need to catch up on how the media industry, the "free press" and rea'l politik works man.


----------



## Sdajii (19 October 2018)

luutzu said:


> I don't mean to be rude and stuff, but you really need to catch up on how the media industry, the "free press" and rea'l politik works man.




Hahahahaha!!!


----------



## luutzu (19 October 2018)

Sdajii said:


> This is brilliant! You're so deep in TDS, if I hadn't seen several of your other posts I'd think you were satirising the insanity of TDS.




You know you cannot just make up a mental illness and assign people and expect people to take you seriously. Only Trump can feel in his gut he's great at science because his uncle taught at Harvard and so CC is not real at all.



Sdajii said:


> Hahaha! HAHAHAHA! Ah, this is brilliant! You're so clouded by your derangement that you literally see everything he says as offensive. In reality, of course, while he may say things which offend snowflakes from time to time with some validity, obviously the vast majority of what he says has no legitimate reason to offend anyone.




Tell you what. Why don't you give us a few of Trump's classic quote and I'll tell you how it either is factually incorrect or morally offensive, or both. 



Sdajii said:


> If a 'failed businessman' is a billionaire, he'll probably do until a successful businessman comes along! It's really funny when people like you say he's a failure, he knows nothing, he's ineffective, etc... when he literally came along with zero political experience, the entire political system and media against him, and on a tiny, tiny percentage of their official budget, not even including the opposition of the entire system, be comfortably beat them! And you STILL believe he is ineffective etc! He did what no one else could do while everyone else was trying to stop him. I'm not sure what your bar for 'capable' is, perhaps you'd like to give an example of someone?




Did you know that Trump the Great inherited about $500M from his dad? Didn't pay much tax on it too. BUt that's another story.

Now, if he were to put that $500M into an index fund back in the 70s or 80s when he inherited it, and chase skirts for the rest of his life... he'd truly have about $10B. 

But what is his net worth before being president? Some estimate put it at about $3.5 to maybe $10B. 

I guess he's brilliant in not pizzing it all away.

As to the presidency... any "outsider" running in 2016 would have won. 

Bernie Sanders would likely have become president if the DNC didn't cheat him and put HRC in the top ticket. 

And Sanders came from nothing, no name recognition, no fake business tycoon blowhard self-promoting nonsense... and near zero press coverage.

Look up research and estimates by the mainstream media CEO themselves. They estimate that the free airtime they gave Trump was about $1B. 

They literally rather show empty Trump podium, in anticipation of Trump's arrival then show massive rallies that Sanders is having at the same time.

They literally fired an MSNBC host - ed Schultz if I remember right... fired him because he went against their order and want to cover, give more air time to Sanders. 



Sdajii said:


> The fact that you believe your nonsense is factual makes your tantrum even more of a tantrum.
> 
> Amazing case of TDS.




You heard of fake opposition right? Mate, Fox news is already taking the right wingers. The "liberal media" can't go that right... so they do bs opposition and criticism. 

Anywho.


----------



## Sdajii (19 October 2018)

luutzu said:


> You know you cannot just make up a mental illness and assign people and expect people to take you seriously. Only Trump can feel in his gut he's great at science because his uncle taught at Harvard and so CC is not real at all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That's an awful lot of mental gymnastics you are putting yourself through to maintain your TDS!

Regurgitating nonsense from the biased mainstream media and believing it doesn't make it true.

You say literally everything that Trump says should offend every decent person. This is insane. The majority of what he says is reporting on things (such as black and Latino unemployment being at the lowest rates in 50 years, etc), inviting people to rallies, wanting to look after the country, etc. If that offends you, you're a moron. You then request 'classic quotes' only to use as proof that *everything* he says is offensive, and the media only uses 'offensive' (usually twisted out of context etc, but sometimes genuinely, legitimately offensive) quotes to turn into 'classic' quotes, because clearly the media is biased against him, yet you somehow try to say otherwise.

Okay, perhaps he is best known for saying 'Make America Great Again'. How is that offensive? Without falsely attributing your own meanings to it, this statement simply means improving the country and getting rid of a lot of the problems any sane person can see the country has, focussing largely on economics.

Trump makes a spectacle of himself, knowing it will get him air time and free exposure because it will get ratings, and you call him stupid. Other than Fox and a couple of smaller ones, they are completely and utterly against him, yet you can't see this? Is Hollywood also pro Trump? Google? Jump on Facebook and look at just about anything, it's all anti Trump. Even the science pages like Scientific American and New Scientist literally have more anti Trump content than anything related to science. If your TDS allows you to see this as pro Trump, I am incapable of imagining what it would need to get to for you to see it as anti!

One thing I like about you is that you're so ridiculous you're unlikely to convince anyone.


----------



## basilio (19 October 2018)

Well congratulations Sjaji.. !! Absolutely.  You can go the upper echelons of * "The Admirers of the Great Donald Trump" - *truly Gods gift to the US and all Right Thinking, Noble people

But for the sake of reality and what a total tosser this creature is (regardless of your impassioned defence) check out just how he decided to destroy Dr Christine Blassy Ford at his rally.  And mind you  he was totally proud of these efforts Sjaji.  He reckons this got his little bum boy over the line. 

And the whole article is worth a read and a think.

*The Most Striking Thing About Trump's Mockery of Christine Blasey Ford*
The president’s jokes at the expense of the woman who told her story of sexual assault are yet another reminder: Laughter is a luxury. And, often, a weapon.

On Tuesday evening, at a rally in Mississippi, Donald Trump did what Donald Trump is so often apt to do: He dispensed with the former niceties. The Trump of last week had been, in public settings, generally respectful of Christine Blasey Ford, the woman who had come forward to allege that the Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh had sexually assaulted her when she was 15. The Trump of this week, however, reverted to the mode that is his most common and, it would seem, his most comfortable: mockery.

“_I had one beer_,” the president, imitating Ford, said, thrusting his index finger upward to emphasize the number. He kept the digit upraised. “_I had one beer!_”

The president then added another character to his routine: an anonymous interrogator of Ford. “_Well, do you think it was—_” he began to ask.

“_Nope!_” he said, gleefully interrupting himself and his fictional questioner. “_It was one beer._” The joke built speed. “How did you get home?_ I don’t remember._ How did you get there? _I don’t remember. _Where is the place?_ I don’t remember._ How many years ago was it? _I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know._”

At this, the crowd at the rally guffawed. They cheered. They broke out into applause. The president, thus galvanized, thus supported, thus loved, continued his one-man interrogation: “What neighborhood was it in? _I don’t know._ Where’s the house? _I don’t know. _Upstairs, downstairs, where was it? _I don’t know. But I had one beer. That’s the only thing I remember._”
One could almost detect, lurking within the laughter, relief. This was the punch line, it seems, the crowd had been waiting for: the long-running, slow-building joke made at the expense of the woman who has been—by the president, and by so many other people in power in America—treated as an inconvenience. It was laughter, cavernous and cruel, that doubled as a kind of incantation: laughter that attempted to expand in its reverberations, seeking out Christine Blasey Ford in the realm that, over the past several days, she has come to occupy in the minds of many Americans—the realm of heroism, of self-sacrifice, of bravery—and then, once it had found her, to put her back in her rightful place. Last Friday, President Trump remarked that “I thought her testimony was very compelling and she looks like a very fine woman to me, very fine woman.” On Tuesday, he regressed to the mean. The president mocked. The crowd laughed. The status quo had maintained its status; order, echoing against the walls of the arena, had been restored.

There’s been a lot of talk, of late, about laughter. Laughter as power. Laughter as luxury. Laughter as empathy. Laughter as beauty. Laughter as philosophy. Laughter as complicity. Laughter as division. The current political moment has been in one way a lesson in how easily jokes can be weaponized: Jokes can win elections. *Jokes can insist that, despite so much evidence to the contrary, lol nothing matters. Jokes can contribute to the post-truth logic of things. They can lighten and enlighten and complicate and delight; they can also mock and hate and lie and make the world objectively worse for the people living in it—and then, when questioned, respond with the only thing a joke knows how to say, in the end: “I was only kidding.”*

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2018/10/trump-mocks-christine-blasey-ford/572005/


----------



## basilio (19 October 2018)

Sdajii said:


> focussing largely on economics.
> 
> Even the science pages like Scientific American and New Scientist literally have more anti Trump content than anything related to science.




Does it ever cross your mind to realise that the scientific community simply recognise that the most powerful leader in the world is a scientific illiterate who is determined to destroy any attempt at a world wide response to CC ? In what universe would scientists who totally understand what is happening in the real world have any respect for the wanton scientific  idiocy of Donald Trump ?


----------



## luutzu (19 October 2018)

Sdajii said:


> That's an awful lot of mental gymnastics you are putting yourself through to maintain your TDS!
> 
> Regurgitating nonsense from the biased mainstream media and believing it doesn't make it true.
> 
> ...




I'm not here to convince anyone. I'm here to show certain people they're all wrong 

Oh look... IT titans, silicone valley hippies... all there to either tell Trump they're against him or getting fed.

Let's see... L to R... Jr., smartest bestest daughter ever, some douche... Bezos, that guy from Google, that lady from Facebook, another douche, the Emperor, that gay guy who cofounded PayPal; that other gay guy running Apple; some Asian bigwig. 









$6Billion in free airtime.

Opps, I thought it was a measley $1B.....


--------------

MAGA is not offensive. Every leader ought to make their country great, again or not. 

It's a lie though isn't it? 

How did the Donald set out to MAGA? 

If you understand economics, geopolitics, some history, international relation, Christian value, budgeting, business... MAGA is a flop and a scam.

But it sure make a few people very rich though. So I guess you got to start where at the very tippy top.

-----------

Unemployment rates are so full of crap it no longer resemble anywhere close to reality. 

But to be fair, he does say a couple truths now and then. 

Truth such as the Koreans cannot do a damn thing without him saying so. Or SA wouldn't last two weeks without US military support.

You're not supposed to say stuff like that. It give those natives the wrong idea that their leaders are just puppets.


----------



## Darc Knight (19 October 2018)

luutzu said:


> Let's see... L to R... Jr., smartest bestest daughter ever, *some douche*... Bezos, that guy from Google, that lady from Facebook, another douche, the Emperor, that gay guy who cofounded PayPal; that other gay guy running Apple; some Asian bigwig.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That 'some douche" looks like Donald Jnr. So Apprentice Douche?


----------



## luutzu (19 October 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> That 'some douche" looks like Donald Jnr. So Apprentice Douche?




I think Jr. is to the right of Ivanka. That douche is not pale enough or freaky looking enough to be Jared the "invisible genius"... no idea. 

There's pictures of Bill Gates at Trump Tower; Elon Musk with Trump... 

I guess whoever wears the ring need to be kissed and begged if you want welfare through national security white elephants.


----------



## Sdajii (20 October 2018)

You folks are amazing! It's most amusing.

It's quite funny the way you say you're here to prove me wrong, just as it has been from the beginning, when all of your type said I was crazy when as soon as he announced he was running I said he'd win. They mocked and laughed when I bet on him. The entire media went crazy saying it was impossible, people like you had no doubt they were right.

It doesn't matter how wrong you are, how obvious it is. You just keep believing you're right. When you turn out to be wrong again, you point to something irrelevant and say that's the important thing.

I've never even said I like him, but you all go crazy telling me I do. Look at the tantrums you post! They really are something


----------



## Tink (20 October 2018)




----------



## Tisme (20 October 2018)

Tink said:


>





Amazing turn around there Tink. And they said he wouldn't make it, the man's obviously a genius.


----------



## luutzu (20 October 2018)

Sdajii said:


> You folks are amazing! It's most amusing.
> 
> It's quite funny the way you say you're here to prove me wrong, just as it has been from the beginning, when all of your type said I was crazy when as soon as he announced he was running I said he'd win. They mocked and laughed when I bet on him. The entire media went crazy saying it was impossible, people like you had no doubt they were right.
> 
> ...




Where do you get this idea that I'm somehow some part of some (lefty) clique?

btw, how could I be one of those lefty, mainstream media loving Clintonites if I said the mainstream media is for Trump, if I said HRC cheated Sanders out of the nomination?

You would make more logical sense if you accused me of being a Russian spy or something.

But just in case, I am my own man, damn it. 



Just so you know, even Trump himself didn't believe he could win. If you bother to look at how his campaign began, how there were none, nada, zip organisational structure set up by him to take himself beyond a few rounds of self-promotion on national TV... 

Dude, you don't need to say you like Trump for readers to know you like/admire the douche. Just like Trump doesn't need to tell people he's lying for (most of them) to know he's full of crap. 

Anyway, if you want some sort of discussion on the topic I can help you see the light. I don't like things to get personal. It offends my Chi, Karma and Feng Shui.


----------



## Sdajii (21 October 2018)

luutzu said:


> Just so you know, even Trump himself didn't believe he could win.




LOL


----------



## basilio (21 October 2018)

_Just so you know, even Trump himself didn't believe he could win.  Luutzu
_
Sjajii, Donald Trump was so sure he wouldn't be Prez he refused/dragged his feet on all the* mandated *prepartions Presidential candidates *had to have *if they are in the race.  Michael Lewis who wrote The Big Short (the story behind the  2008 housing crash in the US) has written a book on this issue.

*This guy doesn’t know anything’: the inside story of Trump’s shambolic transition team *
Illustration: Nathalie Lees
Michael Lewis, author of Moneyball and The Big Short, reveals how Trump’s bungled presidential transition set the template for his time in the White House

https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...ide-story-of-trumps-shambolic-transition-team


----------



## luutzu (21 October 2018)

basilio said:


> _Just so you know, even Trump himself didn't believe he could win.  Luutzu
> _
> Sjajii, Donald Trump was so sure he wouldn't be Prez he refused/dragged his feet on all the* mandated *prepartions Presidential candidates *had to have *if they are in the race.  Michael Lewis who wrote The Big Short (the story behind the  2008 housing crash in the US) has written a book on this issue.
> 
> ...




That was scary Bas. I didn't imagine it'd be that bad.

More insight into why Trump has so many vacancies in key posts. 

The admin has announced it'll pull out of yet another treaty. This time with Russia and that short-range nuclear weapons ban. Is the world a bit closer to midnight or what? 

Trump is quite a terrible salesman. I mean, as president of a global hegemon, he's supposed to be that nice, kind, democratic, liberal king. He's supposed to leave the warmongering, ruthless imperial stormtrooping stuff to his underlings. 

That way, those yet to be affected by American exceptionalism wouldn't question or laugh at its claim to spread democracy, bringing peace and justice to the world whenever it needs to liberate a couple places. 

Here, geezus man, even the IMF, the kings of Wall St. and our own government know when to pretend that money isn't as important as freedom of the press and murdering of a journalist.


----------



## luutzu (21 October 2018)

Sdajii said:


> LOL




This one's quite funny too. 

With a bit of horror when you find out that Jared "the hidden genius" Kushner hired Trump's "Trade Guy" by searching on Amazon for authors with bad-azz "economic" titled books. Like "Death by China"... 

The guy couldn't find any economist to agree with him on economics and trade is advising the president on trade wars and how China is screwing America by selling it cheap affordable goods. 

Though John Oliver is a bit naive here in that he reckon Trump actually meant to do this to MAGA and save the average Americans. It could very well  be that he's just siphoning wealth from the poor and the working class, giving it to himself and people like him who obviously deserve it more.


----------



## noirua (21 October 2018)

Jobs not Mobs, that should be an Aussie slogan. Whether in the US or Australia Liberalism should be dumped:
*Liberalism* is a political and moral philosophy based on liberty and equality.[1][2][3] Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but they generally support civil rights, democracy, secularism, gender and race equality, internationalism and the freedoms of speech, the press, religion and markets.[4][5][6][7][8][9][10]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism


----------



## Sdajii (22 October 2018)

luutzu said:


> This one's quite funny too.
> 
> With a bit of horror when you find out that Jared "the hidden genius" Kushner hired Trump's "Trade Guy" by searching on Amazon for authors with bad-azz "economic" titled books. Like "Death by China"...
> 
> ...





It's remarkable that you would post something in which Oliver posts an amazing amount of ridiculous misinformation, deliberately misrepresented information, and childish mudslinging, in an apparent attempt to make some sort of point.

China was already screwing the USA, Trump is now fighting back. This isn't exactly the start of a trade war, it's just one side finally having a leader sitting there being attacked and is finally responding.

At least you acknowledge Oliver is naive.

You'll probably love this clip of Oliver  In hindsight, a few years from now, the video you just posted will look just as ridiculous even to you!  Well, then again, you may still not even think Oliver got it wrong in this one; your mental gymnastics are quite impressive!


----------



## luutzu (22 October 2018)

Sdajii said:


> It's remarkable that you would post something in which Oliver posts an amazing amount of ridiculous misinformation, deliberately misrepresented information, and childish mudslinging, in an apparent attempt to make some sort of point.
> 
> China was already screwing the USA, Trump is now fighting back. This isn't exactly the start of a trade war, it's just one side finally having a leader sitting there being attacked and is finally responding.
> 
> ...





Did Trump gave away $1.5Trillion (over 10 years) to corporations and the rich or not?

Did he and his GOP elders also redefine what it is to mean "capital gain" and so gave away another $500M?

Are they also planning "tax reform 2.0"? 

Have they also gave tax cuts or more subsidies to the starving young, the sick and the old?

That'd be crazy right? Where's the money to do that.

You don't give more to those who have nothing and on the verge of starvation, you take it from them. Just like how Jesus taught all his tiny-hand kings. Poor people don't need money, they need freedom and work. 

Work doing what Donald? Serving the interest of the rich, of course. 

btw, did you know, and I could be wrong about this as I only heard it on Democracy Now! and it's so outrageous it cannot possibly be true.... but... the Trump Cabinet, his able ministers, are so rich the own, literally, 30% of the country's wealth between them.

Draining the swamps alright. 

------------

Trump is fighting back against China is he? 

First, his own daughter rub herself against daddy at those China/US trade meeting to get herself about a dozen or two trademarks and deals in China. 

More important, raising tariffs on Chinese imports will just raise the price American consumers will have to pay. i.e. that's a consumption tax on average Americans and businesses. 

So unless American manufacturers will all now hire Americans.... Wait, there's no other country with cheaper labour and less environmental, safety, workers protection standard they could move their entrepreurialism to? They must now move back home?

That's like a parent standing up for their beloved by bashing the crap out of them.


----------



## basilio (22 October 2018)

luutzu said:


> and it's so outrageous it cannot possibly be true.... but... the Trump Cabinet, his able ministers, are so rich the own, literally, 30% of the country's wealth between them.




Your right Luu.  It is too outrageous to be true.  They don't own 30% of the countries wealth. If you considered for a second the actual top wealthiest people (see Wiki.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Americans_by_net_worth) that would be clear.

I believe the point they were making was that the Trump Cabonet owned more than the bottom 30% of the US population.
However since this bottom 30% in fact own 3/5th of FA  *it seems ANY *17 people in the US who have a house  and no debt would own more than the bottom 30%

Check it out.

*Do 17 picks for Donald Trump's Cabinet have a higher net worth than one-third of Americans?*
https://www.politifact.com/wisconsi...picks-donald-trumps-cabinet-have-higher-net-/


----------



## Sdajii (22 October 2018)

Your resilience and steadfast will to defend being so wrong and ignore all evidence to the contrary, and to bleat along to the tune of the media while apparently honestly believe you're thinking independently, make you a thoroughly... well, common and unremarkable individual, lutzy.

To back up your believe in one piece of blatant nonsense (eg Trump didn't believe he could win! Haha!) you use a page of complete nonsense which as usual is almost as fully false as it is irrelevant. All your heros like Oliver consistently get everything wrong, but as long as you only laugh along with their smug mockery today and forget how wrong they were yesterday and ignore how wrong today's words will be tomorrow, you can somehow maintain the delusion of being smart and even twist yourself into thinking you're a free, independent thinker who thinks 99% the same as what you're told to, but hey, that 1% where you disagreed on something show you're an entirely free thinker! Good job!


----------



## luutzu (22 October 2018)

Sdajii said:


> Your resilience and steadfast will to defend being so wrong and ignore all evidence to the contrary, and to bleat along to the tune of the media while apparently honestly believe you're thinking independently, make you a thoroughly... well, common and unremarkable individual, lutzy.
> 
> To back up your believe in one piece of blatant nonsense (eg Trump didn't believe he could win! Haha!) you use a page of complete nonsense which as usual is almost as fully false as it is irrelevant. All your heros like Oliver consistently get everything wrong, but as long as you only laugh along with their smug mockery today and forget how wrong they were yesterday and ignore how wrong today's words will be tomorrow, you can somehow maintain the delusion of being smart and even twist yourself into thinking you're a free, independent thinker who thinks 99% the same as what you're told to, but hey, that 1% where you disagreed on something show you're an entirely free thinker! Good job!




You know how to differentiate between facts and commentaries right?

And no dude, I don't have heroes. There are people I admire but John Oliver isn't one of them. I simply link a show of his that illustrate Trump's "understanding" of trade and tariffs.

Heck, I even comment that Oliver is too naive to think that maybe Trump is simply an idiot... I mean Trump is an idiot, but in this "war with China", Trump and those behind him pulling strings know all too well that raising tariffs on, not just China, but Canada, the EU... that's just a consumption tax the poor will be paying for.

i.e. They're transferring wealth from the bottom to the tippy top.

So Trump is either a total moron [or in the word of former Sec. of State Tillerson: "a f*cking moron"], or he's a genius who gather his poor struggling supporters and telling lies to their faces as he takes their hope and dream of a better future and pizz on it.

Wait 'til they wake up to that trickling down.

The liberals got played by Obama... and being hippies they either go order an extra large soy latte to ease the pain or vote for HRC with their noses pinched. Most of Trump's supporters have guns and know how to use don't they?


----------



## SirRumpole (22 October 2018)

This has become a silly thread. Personality conflicts abound. No real debate.

Put on ignore.


----------



## Joe Blow (22 October 2018)

A little too much agro in this thread folks. If everyone could please take a deep breath, exhale and relax that would be great. Remember, civility not hostility.


----------



## luutzu (22 October 2018)

He started it.


----------



## Ann (22 October 2018)

Joe says to behave, everyone rushes in to check out who's not behaving on a thread so heavingly boring I haven't bothered to look until now! Yay, nothing like a good barney (no not you Barney! ) to get the punters reading.


----------



## Darc Knight (22 October 2018)

Beats me why people have a crack at Luu. He's intelligent with a good Heart.


----------



## luutzu (22 October 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> Beats me why people have a crack at Luu. He's intelligent with a good Heart.




They want me to join the Dark Side? Though not realising I'm already one with the empire


----------



## SirRumpole (22 October 2018)

luutzu said:


> They want me to join the Dark Side? Though not realising I'm already one with the empire




I may not always agree with you but at least you don't stoop to insulting other members. (usually)


----------



## luutzu (22 October 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> I may not always agree with you but at least you don't stoop to insulting other members. (usually)




Offending their long held beliefs with facts from my high horse is enough I reckon


----------



## Tink (28 October 2018)




----------



## luutzu (28 October 2018)

Tink said:


>





Would be a whole lot harder if you guys weren't so bought off by the gun lobby you'd rather armed school teachers than freakin ban assault rifles.

Seriously, in some states the gov't is now arming, and training, about 1/3 of school teachers. 

Talk about crocodile tears.

Here's more guns, just don't kill anyone when you got nuts alright? 'cause that's bad.


----------



## noirua (28 October 2018)




----------



## luutzu (28 October 2018)

noirua said:


>





Did he just quote himself (reading his speechwriter's handwork) ?

Isn't that plagiarism?


----------



## noirua (28 October 2018)

Uncle Donald, Hope you like my tweet!


----------



## basilio (29 October 2018)

Donald Trump addressing his campaign rally 11 hours after the Pittsburg synagogue massacre.

_*"With what happened early today, that horrible, horrible attack in Pittsburgh, I was saying maybe I should cancel both this and that. And then I said to myself, I remembered Dick Russell, a friend of mine, great guy, he headed up the New York Stock Exchange on September 11th, and the New York Stock Exchange was open the following day,” Trump said during a campaign rally in Illinois. “He said—and what they had to do to open it you wouldn’t believe, we won’t even talk to you about it. But he got that exchange open. We can’t make these sick, demented, evil people important.”
*_
What was wrong with this statement ?


----------



## Darc Knight (29 October 2018)

basilio said:


> Donald Trump addressing his campaign rally 11 hours after the Pittsburg synagogue massacre.
> 
> _*"With what happened early today, that horrible, horrible attack in Pittsburgh, I was saying maybe I should cancel both this and that. And then I said to myself, I remembered Dick Russell, a friend of mine, great guy, he headed up the New York Stock Exchange on September 11th, and the New York Stock Exchange was open the following day,” Trump said during a campaign rally in Illinois. “He said—and what they had to do to open it you wouldn’t believe, we won’t even talk to you about it. But he got that exchange open. We can’t make these sick, demented, evil people important.”
> *_
> What was wrong with this statement ?




*"No, President Trump, the NYSE did not open the day after the Sept. 11 attacks"*
*https://www.washingtonpost.com/amph...ump-nyse-did-not-open-day-after-sept-attacks/*


----------



## Ann (29 October 2018)

The sad part is he probably doesn't care how often he makes a tit of himself. I guess he has been doing it all his life and feels being a dumb cluck (for want of a better description) never held him back from getting or doing what he wanted. Apart from that, they have been dumbing down the entire nation for years and most would just accept what he says as they have been taught.

Anagrams are wonderful things. Rearange the letters of a name to find a truth about someone. This is one I really like...."*Donald Trump, President of the United States of America*" -> "*Master dud, from pathetic need of persistent adulation.*"

Here is a link to more fun anagrams at Trump's expense...http://www.anagramgenius.com/archive/donald-trump.html


----------



## basilio (29 October 2018)

*How does Donald Trump get away with it ? * He opens a campaign  rally to gee up the  faithful with a fabrication about  the New York Stock exchange opening the day after 9/11.

*It’s a lie that a slow 9 year old can prove*. It’s a lie that has provoked no response from his cabinet, the Republician party or the Fox led conservative press that abdicated any journalistic integrity regarding the Liar in Chief.

This lie could be a monumental piece of ignorance or a coolly deliberate effort  by the President to prove that Donald Trump  can say whatever he xucking likes and no one  (except the lying Liberal media) will challenge his statements.  Either way he is unfit to be President.

But in the end he is only there because the circus around him refuses to put him back in his cage.  And also because the galley of swooning supporters still eat his merde with pinched noses or wild enthusiasm. 

I like Anns comment about the “sadness” of  how Donald Trump has managed to make a tit of himself  over a lifetime. But the reality is when he is allowed to get away with such clear lying self serving rubbish there are no boundaries left in the public sphere to shame him out of office.

In the days  of the Roman Empire Caligula ruled through fear and even appointed his horse as a Senator – and got away with it. The US has a horses xrse as President  and still manages to get millions to kiss him or give him the thumbs up.

 I think it’s insane.


----------



## luutzu (29 October 2018)

basilio said:


> *How does Donald Trump get away with it ? * He opens a campaign  rally to gee up the  faithful with a fabrication about  the New York Stock exchange opening the day after 9/11.
> 
> *It’s a lie that a slow 9 year old can prove*. It’s a lie that has provoked no response from his cabinet, the Republician party or the Fox led conservative press that abdicated any journalistic integrity regarding the Liar in Chief.
> 
> ...




It's not possible to watch a Trump speech without going WTF after each of his sentence. There's so many lies and nonsense it's hard to tell whether he's intentionally lying or he just doesn't know and is either making it up or saw it on Fox&Friends. 

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that the world is close to a climate tipping point with both natural disasters literally changing the landscape, cities and infrastructures.. both in the US and around the world. So that's one big security/economic prosperity issue.

Then there's endless wars eating away at the national budget. Causing millions of deaths and who knows how many enemies around the world.

There's the increasing poverty at home, domestic unrest just under the surface... 

Then there's the rising power that's not going to settle for second place or be anybody's lapdog.

Under any one of  these difficulties a country need one of those once in a century kind of leadership to hopefully solve it peacefully. 

Here the US got a loud mouthed, lying, bigoted  idiot with no ability and no experience to run any country let alone a proper global empire. I mean, you might as well hand the throne to a five year old.

And to make things worst, this five year old picked as senior advisor people he know, people who profess to share the same idealogy... pushing aside critical, more intelligent minded people. 

Scary.


----------



## Sdajii (30 October 2018)

TDS is quite interesting.

If Trump genuinely tells as many incredible, evil, heinous lies as folks like you are making out, why are you forced to focus on small ones and exaggerate them out of all proportion?

You're literally focussing on one bit of misinformation which was obviously a mistake (I don't support or condone it by the way, but it was a clearly unintentional mistake of virtually no consequence, and his opponents routinely tell significant deliberate lies) and acting like it's some sort of incredible act, which you wouldn't be doing if there actually were all the many real examples you claim.

Whether or not the stock exchange opened on a particular day over 15 years ago is not important. Yes, he got it wrong, no, it's not a bit deal whether or not it opened on that day, yes, it is true that he shouldn't have spoken like that without being sure, no, it clearly wasn't a deliberate lie. If it was deliberate he would know people would pick it up and it would go against him. He didn't have anything much to gain from it and it was guaranteed to be picked up, unlikely a genuine lie which he would believe was unlikely to be picked up and would give him significant gain.

If you're using this example with such enthusiasm, you clearly don't have better alternatives, which means you're pushing a false narrative (which you presumably actually believed after it was pushed on you by the mainstream media and woolly masses). This is not an email scandal or Benghazi level incident, or anything as bad as what you'll see literally every few minutes on CNN.


----------



## dutchie (30 October 2018)

Trump, despite all his failings, is the President that the USA needed to have at this time in history.
(Hillary would have been a disaster for the USA).

I have seen so many interviews of people complaining about him not being able to articulate why they are protesting. Usually they have nothing to say except, in depth debating points like "f#ck you", when asked.

They will probably need a second term from him.


----------



## PZ99 (30 October 2018)

Hillary would have been a disaster for the USA. True dat...

Because one of those f#ke letter bombs might have gone to the US president 

@dutchie - what are these Trump failings you speak of ?


----------



## Skate (30 October 2018)

It appears everyone has an opinion about President Trump that divides ASF into two camps with the middle missing.

Not unique but some posts on the ASF can overstep the mark to alienate others.

Whether you like President Trump or not you have to agree his communication skills are quite unique.

Skate.


----------



## Darc Knight (30 October 2018)

Skate said:


> Whether you like President Trump or not you have to agree his communication skills are quite unique.
> 
> Skate.




You should be a tight rope walker Sir!


----------



## luutzu (30 October 2018)

Sdajii said:


> TDS is quite interesting.
> 
> If Trump genuinely tells as many incredible, evil, heinous lies as folks like you are making out, why are you forced to focus on small ones and exaggerate them out of all proportion?
> 
> ...




That or it's to show that Trump is a pathological liar who just make shite up, big or small. 

But you might be missing to point as to why Trump is trying to excuse his not turning up to the memorial of those killed. 

One, he weren't invited. Two, the reason behind the murders makes it very difficult to score political points. 

I mean, the psycho that shoot up the place... well, he doesn't like Jews for one. But he also excuse his killing with trying "to save America" from "disloyal" Jews who's opening the gates for those "refugees" Muslims/Terrorist and drug cartel on its way to invading America.

The Synagogue has a strong organisation that's been critical of Trump's racist, anti-Muslim bs. That and they are actively trying to help settle refugees, providing free legal advise and such at asylum claim hearings etc. 

So if you're the douche who've been touting about evil terrorist "middle eastern" and drug cartel coming over to rape and terrorise the (White) Americans... and some psycho with an automatic rifle managed to link the two and two... 

So maybe Trump is a hidden genius... that or his handlers just tell him to not turn up to Pittsburg and continue on saying bs to distract everybody.


----------



## Tink (30 October 2018)

Luutzu, we are entitled to our views.

Faith, Family, Truth and Freedom.

----

I have mentioned Ronald Reagan a few times.

_If we ever forget we are One Nation Under God, we will be a nation gone under._

In Australia, our preamble is

Under Almighty God.


----------



## luutzu (30 October 2018)

Tink said:


> Luutzu, we are entitled to our views.
> 
> Faith, Family, Truth and Freedom.
> 
> ...




Trump, like all Western leaders, claim to be pious and all Christian. Right?

Beside him mouthing off his obedience and worship of The Almighty, which of his actions would Jesus approve?

Family? Love your wife (wives?), faithful to them?

Heal the sick? Feed the poor? Welcome strangers? Love thy neighbour? 

It's not my opinion, I'm measuring Trump against your own Christian values. He's coming up tiny and short.


----------



## Ann (30 October 2018)

Gosh, this potentially innocuous subject of Trump's tweets and faux pas seems to have dissolved into a combative Trump hate thread, which is a pity.  His errors are sad and unfortunate most of the time but do offer a degree of humour if read in a light hearted manner.

Instead of spoiling a nice light hearted thread why not start a "I Really Hate Trump Because...." thread and lets spill all our pent up vitriol into that one. With a title like that, we who don't have that much anger inside, can avoid it unless we want to check out the boys brawling with each other over a pointless argument!  Just sayin'


----------



## luutzu (30 October 2018)




----------



## Darc Knight (31 October 2018)

I'm not sure it's an "innocuous" subject. Trump's actions effect everyone, particularly the less fortunate. 
Bad things do happen when people just stand by and watch, look at other places in the World with human rights violations.


----------



## noirua (31 October 2018)




----------



## noirua (31 October 2018)




----------



## Darc Knight (31 October 2018)

"You are not supposed to see this video"  Sorta destroys the credibility of the post doesn't it. Clickbait 101.


----------



## dutchie (31 October 2018)

PZ99 said:


> @dutchie - what are these Trump failings you speak of ?




Well he is a privileged white male for starters!


----------



## Darc Knight (31 October 2018)




----------



## dutchie (31 October 2018)

Darc Knight said:


>




Classic!

(One of the funniest posts this year)


----------



## noirua (31 October 2018)

Share competition close tonight
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/t...tipping-competition-entry-thread.34312/page-2


----------



## Sdajii (31 October 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> "You are not supposed to see this video"  Sorta destroys the credibility of the post doesn't it. Clickbait 101.




Not really. They are simply saying that there was an attempt at suppressing the video by the original people who made it and put it out, but a copy is available here for people to view, and the content reveals the hypocrisy and lack of credibility of those who made it then tried to remove its existence.

It's funny, when people attack Trump they usually just use evidence like 'he's a disgusting, fat, orange troll who body shames women' or 'He's so obviously a racist' (who has black and Latino employment at all time highs etc!) or they use fictional satire or a pointless photoshopped meme like the redneck above. 

This lack of substance is indicative of a lack of actual substance, because if it was there they'd actually be using it.


----------



## Darc Knight (31 October 2018)

Sdajii said:


> Not really. They are simply saying that there was an attempt at suppressing the video by the original people who made it and put it out, but a copy is available here for people to view, and the content reveals the hypocrisy and lack of credibility of those who made it then tried to remove its existence.
> 
> It's funny, when people attack Trump they usually just use evidence like 'he's a disgusting, fat, orange troll who body shames women' or 'He's so obviously a racist' (who has black and Latino employment at all time highs etc!) or they use fictional satire or a pointless photoshopped meme like the redneck above.
> 
> This lack of substance is indicative of a lack of actual substance, because if it was there they'd actually be using it.




Wow, you take the Sargent Schultz approach I see - "I know nothing!". We'll start with a host Trump's former Employees, business associates and customers who detail his almost sociopathic way of doing business; not paying contractors, breaching a wide range of employment, environmental and building laws, move onto his pathological lying, the raping of his ex Wife. Geez, I can't list them all. Perhaps listen to actual people, on the record, who have had the misfortune to deal with Trump


----------



## Sdajii (31 October 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> Wow, you take the Sargent Schultz approach I see - "I know nothing!". We'll start with a host Trump's former Employees, business associates and customers who detail his almost sociopathic way of doing business; not paying contractors, breaching a wide range of employment, environmental and building laws, move onto his pathological lying, the raping of his ex Wife. Geez, I can't list them all. Perhaps listen to actual people, on the record, who have had the misfortune to deal with Trump





And here we see you playing games with anecdotal evidence (worthless in this context), and cherry picking then exaggerating a few examples from an extremely large lifetime of complex business moves, either hoping I will somehow not notice your incredible bias or perhaps being so deluded that you can not even see it.

If we were to take the same approach to literally anyone we could make them look bad. If you were to use the same amount of bias in the opposite direction you would make Trump look like the best guy who ever lived.

As a boss who has employed countless people over the years, you have to look really hard to find people wanting to complain. The majority speak very highly of him. Look at literally anyone who has been a boss to more than a handful of people and you'll get plenty of examples who hated them, whether warranted or not. With Trump you not only have thousands of them to choose from, but there's a political motive for them to exaggerate/lie.

Once again, this is the sort of nonsense that people resort to when attacking Trump, and the lack of substance is clearly because the substance isn't there. Indeed, with all this desperation to attack him, if there actually was a large amount of genuine issue, it would be used to destroy him. Even if you're deluded enough to believe the narrative, you'd have to think that he is some kind of supergenius to somehow continue on like he is despite it all.

It's not like Trump is some unknown identity or one who deals with small, naive businesses. If he is so terrible to deal with, why do people continually want to deal with him? It's a little similar to everyone talking about how terrible the USA is, yet they are so desperate to go live there!


----------



## Darc Knight (31 October 2018)

Sdajii said:


> And here we see you playing games with anecdotal evidence (worthless in this context), and cherry picking then exaggerating a few examples from an extremely large lifetime of complex business moves, either hoping I will somehow not notice your incredible bias or perhaps being so deluded that you can not even see it.
> 
> If we were to take the same approach to literally anyone we could make them look bad. If you were to use the same amount of bias in the opposite direction you would make Trump look like the best guy who ever lived.
> 
> ...




Wow, you watched that whole video, did an unbiased analysis and wrote that wall of text tripe all within a few minutes - incredible.
I don't think I've ever struck a Trump fan boy  who I can say is a person I respect enough to listen to. The ones with a sense of right and wrong eventually admit Trump is poor excuse for a Human being, the rest usually aren't great Humans beings themselves.


----------



## Sdajii (31 October 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> Wow, you watched that whole video, did an unbiased analysis and wrote that wall of text tripe all within a few minutes - incredible.
> I don't think I've ever struck a Trump fan boy  who I can say is a person I respect enough to listen to. The ones with a sense of right and wrong eventually admit Trump is poor excuse for a Human being, the rest usually aren't great Humans beings themselves.




Ah, and now you resort to the predictable phase of mudslinging/personal attacks and hypocritically finding an excuse to write a person off as a human being, despite trying to take high moral ground.

I'm not a 'Trump fan boy', but whether or not I like a person or thing, I don't like baseless or irrelevant attacks on them.

And no, I didn't watch the entire video. It was well over an hour of the same manufactured, biased nonsense we've constantly been bombarded with for years now.


----------



## SirRumpole (31 October 2018)

When you have a leader that laughs when a journalist doing his job is crash tackled by one of his supporters thereby encouraging such acts then you know that you have a country that is a few steps away from facism.


----------



## Darc Knight (31 October 2018)

Sdajii said:


> Ah, and now you resort to the predictable phase of mudslinging/personal attacks and hypocritically finding an excuse to write a person off as a human being, despite trying to take high moral ground.
> 
> I'm not a 'Trump fan boy', but whether or not I like a person or thing, I don't like baseless or irrelevant attacks on them.
> 
> And no, I didn't watch the entire video. It was well over an hour of the same manufactured, biased nonsense we've constantly been bombarded with for years now.




So you didn't watch the video with actual evidence including statements under oath, yet you make a conclusion about it


----------



## Sdajii (31 October 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> So you didn't watch the video with actual evidence including statements under oath, yet you make a conclusion about it




So you give me a 1 hour 20 minute video of the same nonsense we've all been exposed to constantly for years and use me not watching every minute of it as an excuse to hold your unfounded beliefs. Well done, that's some pretty impressive mental gymnastics.




SirRumpole said:


> When you have a leader that laughs when a journalist doing his job is crash tackled by one of his supporters thereby encouraging such acts then you know that you have a country that is a few steps away from facism.




When you have people cherry picking small things to prove a narrative which contradicts the big picture, you know you have irrational people with ill-founded opinions.


----------



## Darc Knight (31 October 2018)

Sdajii said:


> So you give me a 1 hour 20 minute video of the same nonsense we've all been exposed to constantly for years and use me not watching every minute of it as an excuse to hold your unfounded beliefs. Well done, that's some pretty impressive mental gymnastics.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Didn't you say a post back that you didn't even watch the video, a video with a host of ex associates of Trump etc including statements under oath yet you conclude it's nonsense. Your Trump Fan boy derangement is strong.


----------



## Sdajii (31 October 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> Didn't you say a post back that you didn't even watch the video, a video with a host of ex associates of Trump etc including statements under oath yet you conclude it's nonsense. Your Trump Fan boy derangement is strong.




I skimmed through enough of it to see it's much the same as many videos we've all seen over the last few years. Even by your own description "a video with a host of ex associates of Trump..." we can see it is pointless to watch. In a world with literal international attempts at character assassination, literally it is the #1 topic discussed on mainstream and social media today and possibly the most common topic among interpersonal conversations other than personal topics, it's hardly like I need to waste another hour and 20 minutes on the exact same thing, and in a world where it is literally the most heavily pushed narratives, anecdotal evidence in the most biased context ever to grace the world, is irrelevant. Anecdotal evidence is generally irrelavant even in regular contexts.


----------



## Darc Knight (31 October 2018)

Sdajii said:


> I skimmed through enough of it to see it's much the same as many videos we've all seen over the last few years. Even by your own description "a video with a host of ex associates of Trump..." we can see it is pointless to watch. In a world with literal international attempts at character assassination, literally it is the #1 topic discussed on mainstream and social media today and possibly the most common topic among interpersonal conversations other than personal topics, it's hardly like I need to waste another hour and 20 minutes on the exact same thing, and in a world where it is literally the most heavily pushed narratives, anecdotal evidence in the most biased context ever to grace the world, is irrelevant. Anecdotal evidence is generally irrelavant even in regular contexts.




So you choose to not look at anything negative about Trump. You're very informed then I guess


----------



## Sdajii (31 October 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> So you choose to not look at anything negative about Trump. You're very informed then I guess




We all get swamped with negative material about Trump every day. Have you not noticed? You can't go anywhere at all without it. An evening with friends, turn on the TV, read a newspaper, log online, check a stock discussion forum... you honestly think there is anyone not living under a rock who isn't constantly exposed to anti Trump propaganda?


----------



## Darc Knight (31 October 2018)

Sdajii said:


> We all get swamped with negative material about Trump every day. Have you not noticed? You can't go anywhere at all without it. An evening with friends, turn on the TV, read a newspaper, log online, check a stock discussion forum... you honestly think there is anyone not living under a rock who isn't constantly exposed to anti Trump propaganda?




Maybe theres a reason why there's so many people with negative encounters and dealings with Trump.
When you've got people including his ex wife testifying under oath about his sociopathic ways perhaps theres reason to listen. 
Listening to only the good stuff isn't getting the full story.


----------



## Sdajii (31 October 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> Maybe theres a reason why there's so many people with negative encounters and dealings with Trump.
> When you've got people including his ex wife testifying under oath about his sociopathic ways perhaps theres reason to listen.
> Listening to only the good stuff isn't getting the full story.




Who is only listening to the good stuff? Your powers of believing in fiction are showing again. Even if someone wanted to only listen to 'the good stuff' it would be effectively impossible. 

I personally try to watch a reasonable spread of everything being put out there, which means most of what I see is heavily anti Trump. I imagine that if I actually wanted to expose myself to pro Trump material it would be a challenge, and if I wanted exclusively pro Trump, I would fail.


----------



## Darc Knight (31 October 2018)

Sdajii said:


> Who is only listening to the good stuff? Your powers of believing in fiction are showing again. Even if someone wanted to only listen to 'the good stuff' it would be effectively impossible.
> 
> I personally try to watch a reasonable spread of everything being put out there, which means most of what I see is heavily anti Trump. I imagine that if I actually wanted to expose myself to pro Trump material it would be a challenge, and if I wanted exclusively pro Trump, I would fail.




Yet you didn't watch the video but formed a conclusion about it, saying it's the same as the rest of negative stuff that you avoid watching/reading.
You're hardly an informed opinion.


----------



## Sdajii (31 October 2018)

Hey, I'll let you in on a little-known secret...

People are often bitter about their exes and it's not at all unusual for them to exaggerate and lie and speak about them in an overly negative way. This is true right through from school kids who break up after a two week kiddy relationship right through to old people going through divorces.

I know, I know, it's a radical concept, but if you really, really do your homework you'll find it to be true! Genuinely amazing stuff, I know.

And if someone had a political motive, you can imagine they may even go further with it.

But hey, critical thinking is way overrated, right?

Also, if I was a woman considering marrying Donald Trump, or he was a personal friend of mine or a personal friend was considering dating/marrying him, his romantic history may be of some sort of relevance to me, but even with my personal friends I often prefer to stay out of that side of their lives. You seem to think it is somehow important to us all. In doing so, you reveal that your primary focus is not on things relevant to someone as a president. He is currently married, his wife is proud to stand by his side, she could leave if she wanted to, I'm happy for private lives to be private lives and yes, this is one area where I am happy to remain ignorant. I don't care for celebrity gossip, and that's all this topic is.


----------



## SirRumpole (31 October 2018)

> When you have people cherry picking small things to prove a narrative which contradicts the big picture, you know you have irrational people with ill-founded opinions.




Wasn't it you who said he has given up on the Western world ?

Or are you coming back because of Trump ?


----------



## Darc Knight (31 October 2018)

Sdajii said:


> Hey, I'll let you in on a little-known secret...
> 
> People are often bitter about their exes and it's not at all unusual for them to exaggerate and lie and speak about them in an overly negative way. This is true right through from school kids who break up after a two week kiddy relationship right through to old people going through divorces.
> 
> ...




Really do your homework you say? Yet you won't listen to actual accounts of people with dealings with Trump. You cherry pick what you'll listen to. 
You, by your own admission don't listen to a lot of what is out there, so you're hardly an informed view. My opinion is you're not really a person anyone should waste time on when it comes to this topic.


----------



## Sdajii (31 October 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Wasn't it you who said he has given up on the Western world ?
> 
> Or are you coming back because of Trump ?




Seems like once again we see the tactic of irrelevant distraction...

Anyway, I wouldn't phrase it like that, at least in that context, but yes, I see big problems for the west's future (currently on a short holiday in Australia though). I was born in Australia, spent over 30 years here and will always take an interest in Australia and the west. Where Sdaji personally chooses to live or spend his time for personal reasons is irrelevant to this discussion (though it's an interesting topic I'll gladly indulge in another thread if you wish).


----------



## Sdajii (31 October 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> Really do your homework you say? Yet you won't listen to actual accounts of people with dealings with Trump. You cherry pick what you'll listen to.
> You, by your own admission don't listen to a lot of what is out there, so you're hardly an informed view. My opinion is you're not really a person anyone should waste time on when it comes to this topic.




What a bizarre post. I've already heard everything in that video. I don't need to spend over an hour listening to every word of old news again. I can give you a couple hours of far more balanced and worthwhile videos to watch. Will you watch it?


----------



## Darc Knight (31 October 2018)

Sdajii said:


> What a bizarre post. I've already heard everything in that video. I don't need to spend over an hour listening to every word of old news again. I can give you a couple hours of far more balanced and worthwhile videos to watch. Will you watch it?




You've already heard everything in the video yet by your own admission didn't watch the video. You're just trolling this thread.


----------



## SirRumpole (31 October 2018)

Sdajii said:


> Where Sdaji personally chooses to live or spend his time for personal reasons is irrelevant to this discussion (though it's an interesting topic I'll gladly indulge in another thread if you wish).




I would find that interesting. 

People's impressions of the way other countries work would be a good topic.


----------



## Sdajii (31 October 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> You've already heard everything in the video yet by your own admission didn't watch the video. You're just trolling this thread.




Please read my posts before commenting on them. I skimmed the video, it's all stuff I'd seen before, and didn't feel the need to go through it again. This stuff has all literally been doing the rounds for years. It's not rocket surgery to understand this concept.


----------



## bellenuit (31 October 2018)

noirua said:


>





Then the truth is revealed.......


----------



## bellenuit (31 October 2018)

More here ......

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...olbert-conspiracy-kellyanne-conway-late-night


----------



## noirua (1 November 2018)




----------



## noirua (1 November 2018)

President Trump has meant more jobs and many of those for non-citizens and some illegals.
He has managed to stop cheap steel and aluminium and has done deals that are more profitable for Americans.
Negotiated well in the near impossible situation with North Korea.
Acted defiantly in defence of America and its allies against a resurgent Russia.
Not giving way to taking in immigrants and not letting them pile over the border unchallenged.
Not letting Europe and China get away with big tariffs on American goods whilst getting away with low tariffs into America.


----------



## noirua (1 November 2018)

Many countries have seen their population rise quickly over the past year. DRC by over 4.5%.
Not to say they need a "one child policy" as in China up to 2016 errrr maybe they do.
A policy of allowing a population to rise rapidly in a country and then let their citizens go to America, Europe or Australasia is completely wrong.
China is a world hero country keeping their population numbers constrained. On the other hand countries like India have failed.
Sadly, very sadly, it is a numbers game: For many, whilst pretending it isn't or attacking those who dare to mention it.
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/posts/1000941/
Maybe some attack Donald Trump on many fronts for their own ideals, whatever they may be.  So many know and appreciate his attitude not to cave into popularism.

Anyway, growth in America is 3.4%pa during The Donald's watch. More people are employed than ever before. 
What is there not to like on the American BUSINESS front and President Donald Trump.


----------



## PZ99 (1 November 2018)

Yes @noirua ... 

DTs' performance has improved since Facebook deleted my fake Donald Trump account


----------



## SirRumpole (1 November 2018)

noirua said:


> He has managed to stop cheap steel and aluminium and has done deals that are more profitable for Americans.




Yep good on him. Americans will now be paying more for cars, canned drinks, buildings, aircraft...


----------



## Sdajii (1 November 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Yep good on him. Americans will now be paying more for cars, canned drinks, buildings, aircraft...




But rather than sending a slightly smaller amount of money and sending much of it abroad, more of the money will be staying in the country, funding local employment and economy.

Do you think Australia would benefit if it simply cut all foreign tariffs and allowed people to buy cheaper goods from abroad? If you're not stupid enough to think that is a good idea (which I assume is the case), the only reason you're against Trump on this issue is TDS. Trump's changes have increased employment, his country's GDP and reduced the deficit, yet people will still try to find a way to twist one out of context aspect of it and say it's bad. Or, they'll say his ex wife doesn't like him (seriously, take some time to think about how many ways that's a stupid thing to talk about) or that he is 'an orange orangutan' or has a disgruntled ex employee or something.


----------



## SirRumpole (1 November 2018)

Sdajii said:


> Trump's changes have increased employment, his country's GDP *and reduced the deficit,*




Really ? Not from what I read.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...r-plus-deficits-fiscal-ruin-column/986236002/

Maybe there is another form of TDS, Trump Delusion Syndrome.


----------



## luutzu (1 November 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> When you have a leader that laughs when a journalist doing his job is crash tackled by one of his supporters thereby encouraging such acts then you know that you have a country that is a few steps away from facism.




What's worst, the journalist was asking the guy about universal healthcare. 

Mr Politician, why are you against healthcare that is cheaper overall for everyone, and covers every one of your citizen? 

Bam! Take that you hippy scum! 

Trump: "my kind of guy". 

Trump's fanboy: Hell yea! No healthcare for all of us! U.S.A! U.S.A! 


You seriously can't make these stuff up.


----------



## luutzu (1 November 2018)

Sdajii said:


> But rather than sending a slightly smaller amount of money and sending much of it abroad, more of the money will be staying in the country, funding local employment and economy.
> 
> Do you think Australia would benefit if it simply cut all foreign tariffs and allowed people to buy cheaper goods from abroad? If you're not stupid enough to think that is a good idea (which I assume is the case), the only reason you're against Trump on this issue is TDS. Trump's changes have increased employment, his country's GDP and reduced the deficit, yet people will still try to find a way to twist one out of context aspect of it and say it's bad. Or, they'll say his ex wife doesn't like him (seriously, take some time to think about how many ways that's a stupid thing to talk about) or that he is 'an orange orangutan' or has a disgruntled ex employee or something.




No, Trump's fight for America hasn't created net job growth.

His deal making prowess are so bigly awesome GM just laid off 3,000 auto workers. Ford and other US automakers are moving back into Mexico after the great new NAFTA he and his boy-wonder in law (and hidden genius) just negotiated.

And dude, those corporations being stiffed by his tariffs are, if they're big enough, getting subsidies and exemptions. i.e. They're getting taxpayers dollars to make up for the losses, still get to pass on the increase tariffs to American consumers. 

And those that aren't getting as much freebies are diversifying into neighbouring Asian manufacturing centres.

The jobs aren't coming back. Not those that's been offshored decades ago.

The only way jobs can be created in the US is through new industries. Such as... installing solar panels; moving the economy towards clean, new renewable higher-tech manufacturing.

To do that, they'd need to make investment in things like education, not bankrupting their students for life to get a degree and coming out seeing gigs but no real job. 

That and I don't know about you but buying things I find useful for cheap is not being cheated by the seller. For all we know, it might help balance the family budget.


----------



## luutzu (1 November 2018)

Sdajii said:


> But rather than sending a slightly smaller amount of money and sending much of it abroad, more of the money will be staying in the country, funding local employment and economy.
> 
> Do you think Australia would benefit if it simply cut all foreign tariffs and allowed people to buy cheaper goods from abroad? If you're not stupid enough to think that is a good idea (which I assume is the case), the only reason you're against Trump on this issue is TDS. Trump's changes have increased employment, his country's GDP and reduced the deficit, yet people will still try to find a way to twist one out of context aspect of it and say it's bad. Or, they'll say his ex wife doesn't like him (seriously, take some time to think about how many ways that's a stupid thing to talk about) or that he is 'an orange orangutan' or has a disgruntled ex employee or something.





Reduce the deficits. 

Two Trillions in tax cuts to the rich; some $200B additional military spending; natural disasters from "the normal weather" just being big, wet, hot, watery enough to wipe out, literally, a town or two or ten... 

But sure, it's those damn hungry kids and sick people and their need for food and stuff that's screwing with the budget.


----------



## luutzu (1 November 2018)

noirua said:


>





It's very nice to see that his highness was treated very warmly. That's the important thing on that visit isn't it - whether or not he was well treated.

Yea it's a sad and solem day, but we were so well respected and loved it's awesome.


----------



## luutzu (1 November 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Really ? Not from what I read.
> 
> https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...r-plus-deficits-fiscal-ruin-column/986236002/
> 
> Maybe there is another form of TDS, Trump Delusion Syndrome.




Alt-TDS? That's a good one.


----------



## noirua (1 November 2018)

luutzu said:


> Reduce the deficits.
> 
> Two Trillions in tax cuts to the rich; some $200B additional military spending; natural disasters from "the normal weather" just being big, wet, hot, watery enough to wipe out, literally, a town or two or ten...
> 
> But sure, it's those damn hungry kids and sick people and their need for food and stuff that's screwing with the budget.




Unfortunately every country needs to care of the sick and weak, for whatever the reason. Seriously it does screw up the budgets. Human beings are quite sickly creatures though we see ourselves as being the most important on planet earth and beyond.

On financial matters it's seen as good to give more to the poorer people. Those who choose to do so like to make sure their kind get the biggest increase at the same time. The revolution in France was caused by royalty and the rich paying no tax at all. Many went to the scaffold never giving up that right to the very end - not that much has changed: Just more tempered.


----------



## PZ99 (2 November 2018)

Wall Street rises on optimistic Donald Trump tweet, Australian dollar rebounds to US72c...








https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11...ic-trump-tweet-aussie-dollar-72.1-us/10458642


----------



## basilio (6 November 2018)

Interesting  to see Fox News, NBC and Facebook on the same side about racist ads from the Trump  campaign office.

*Fox News, NBC, and Facebook pulled Trump’s racist campaign ad. He’s not happy about it.*
*The latest controversy over Trump’s final campaign ad, explained.*

Some networks refused to air President Donald Trump’s race-baiting campaign video put out in the final stretch of the 2018 midterms. CNN, for example, refused to broadcast the full version of it. Eventually other networks — including Fox News — pulled the ad. 
 And Trump’s not happy about it.

The ad, created by Trump’s campaign committee, features footage of Luis Bracamontes, a twice-deported unauthorized immigrant who killed two California police officers in 2014. It ties him to the migrant caravan currently hundreds of miles away from the US-Mexico border and the Democratic Party. Political experts compared it to the infamously racist Willie Horton ad used by George H.W. Bush, with some even saying it was worse.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/11/5/18065880/nbc-racist-trump-ad-sunday-night-football


----------



## Tink (12 November 2018)

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-people-poland/


----------



## Tink (30 November 2018)




----------



## Darc Knight (30 November 2018)

Strange that a person who calls themselves a Christian is a Trump supporter @Tink 
Jesus said "throw away your money and worldy possessions". Secondly, Christians live by the principle of self sacrifice for others. Trump is the total opposite - worships money and pursues it in a sociopathic manner. He is the exact opposite of a Christian.


----------



## bellenuit (30 November 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> Strange that a person who calls themselves a Christian is a Trump supporter




This is not directed at Tink, but rather than being strange isn't that the norm in the US among Evangelicals and the Christian Right.

There is a saying: _The Christian Right is neither Christian nor right_.


----------



## Sdajii (30 November 2018)

bellenuit said:


> This is not directed at Tink, but rather than being strange isn't that the norm in the US among Evangelicals and the Christian Right.
> 
> There is a saying: _The Christian Right is neither Christian nor right_.




Would you accuse a Muslim of being strange if they expressed any positive sentiment to a man who didn't rape children and kill people?

Good grief.


----------



## Darc Knight (30 November 2018)

Sdajii said:


> Would you accuse a Muslim of being strange if they expressed any positive sentiment to a man who didn't rape children and kill people?
> 
> Good grief.




I'm told the Quran says to obey the laws of the land, so a true Muslim might not like Trump due to his "indiscretions".


----------



## Sdajii (30 November 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> I'm told the Quran says to obey the laws of the land, so a true Muslim might not like Trump due to his "indiscretions".




Obey the law of the land as in pay lip service to it while getting ready to overthrow the government and forcefully take over.

Funny how you're willing to take both religions out of context to defend the evil one and vilify the much less evil (arguably not evil) one.


----------



## Darc Knight (30 November 2018)

Sdajii said:


> Obey the law of the land as in pay lip service to it while getting ready to overthrow the government and forcefully take over.
> 
> Funny how you're willing to take both religions out of context to defend the evil one and vilify the much less evil (arguably not evil) one.




I don't know what to say Sdajii other than looks like you came runner up in the November Stock tipping comp - well done again


----------



## Sdajii (30 November 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> I don't know what to say Sdajii other than looks like you came runner up in the November Stock tipping comp - well done again




Hahahaha!!! I don't know why I found that such an amusing response, but it had me in a lot of laughter, thanks  Thanks also for reminding me to check! I'll find something fun to spend the $50 on  Congratulations on placing


----------



## bellenuit (30 November 2018)

Sdajii said:


> Would you accuse a Muslim of being strange if they expressed any positive sentiment to a man who didn't rape children and kill people?
> 
> Good grief.




But I didn't say it was strange. I said it was the norm for that particular group.


----------



## Tink (15 December 2018)




----------



## basilio (6 January 2019)

*Latest tweeting lies from  Donald Trump de constructed
*
*Seven days, seven lies: Donald Trump’s claims about immigration, drugs and the shutdown debunked*
US President Donald Trump held forth on all manner of things this past week, opining for more than 90 minutes to the White House press at the top of a Cabinet meeting and capping off the week with a news conference that stretched for an hour. 

And he’s been tweeting a lot.

Many of Mr Trump’s claims were only thinly masquerading as truths. Here’s a sampling of falsehoods he made, from his approval rating to the US government shutdown — paired with a reality check.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/o...d/news-story/4cd595c6360324ae459069497f5e92b6


----------



## luutzu (7 January 2019)

Tink said:


>





The Yellow Vests aren't protesting against clean energy or alternative, renewable sources.

Both Macron and the likes of Trump are using the Paris Agreement for their own political objective: tax the poor, take their money; hand it over to corporations and the rich.

Trump attack the green movement as being uneconomical, hurting miners and coal workers, bad for America and all things horrible and terrible. He got his oil and fossil buddies to please.

Marcon need to pay subsidies to electric car manufacturers; need to fill black holes left from his removal of an estate and wealth/land tax that benefited mostly very rich people. 

To do that, he gutted education funding; raise taxes on this and all that that plebs relies on; remove such things as welfare to peasants... and also the diesel fuel rate hike... the fourth in a decade or less if I remember right. 

All in the name of "reform" and clean energy and all that bs. 

I'm sure the average French wouldn't mind cleaner air, clean water and all them green jobs. Just that they're being screwed and told to like it.

The on going protests doesn't seem like they're willing to take it anymore.


----------



## basilio (9 January 2019)

Lets put Luutzus words to music in the Christmas  style...


----------



## luutzu (9 January 2019)

basilio said:


> Lets put Luutzus words to music in the Christmas  style...





Wow that was really good.


----------



## Darc Knight (9 January 2019)

luutzu said:


> Wow that was really good.




You maybe called upon to summarise Baz's copious vids at some stage my friend


----------



## basilio (9 January 2019)

Darc Knight said:


> You maybe called upon to summarise Baz's copious vids at some stage my friend




Hang on !!  The vids I post aren't "mine".  They are other peoples work that I  think offer some clever insights into topics that I reckon are worth a look.

I have gone a bit feral on vids recently.  It happened when I came across the work of Natalie Flynn  in ContraPoint and was stunned by quality of the ideas and creativity of the presentation. And I certainly wouldn't want to try and summarise them.  Be a bit rude I think...
https://www.youtube.com/user/ContraPoints/videos


----------



## Darc Knight (9 January 2019)

basilio said:


> Hang on !!  The vids I post aren't "mine".  They are other peoples work that I  think offer some clever insights into topics that I reckon are worth a look.
> 
> I have gone a bit feral on vids recently.  It happened when I came across the work of Natalie Flynn  in ContraPoint and was stunned by quality of the ideas and creativity of the presentation. And I certainly wouldn't want to try and summarise them.  Be a bit rude I think...
> https://www.youtube.com/user/ContraPoints/videos




I can understand some vids require actual viewing to feel empathy etc but others are probably too much of a bother for a lot of people and probably a summary might help. Your decision anyway


----------



## basilio (9 January 2019)

Darc Knight said:


> I can understand some vids require actual viewing to feel empathy etc but others are probably too much of a bother for a lot of people and probably a summary might help. Your decision anyway




I see your point DK. It's probably true most people can't be bothered/aren't interested in more indepth thinking about ideas. That is almost certainly a result of the overwhelming thinness/vacuity of the internet with ideas/policies being reduced to 3 word slogans.

I don't agree with that approach..


----------



## noirua (9 January 2019)




----------



## ghotib (10 January 2019)

Darc Knight said:


> I can understand some vids require actual viewing to feel empathy etc but others are probably too much of a bother for a lot of people and probably a summary might help. Your decision anyway



<ahem> Errr... Some of us can access more bandwidth than others of us.


----------



## Logique (10 January 2019)

Hilarious pics at the link 


> The meme wars - January 9, 2019 by Steve Kates
> There is no doubt who won the meme wars. The border wars continue.
> http://catallaxyfiles.com/


----------



## basilio (10 January 2019)

Well Logique you manged to dig a bit deeper to find some choice nasties to avoid what Trump is doing to the US. Not surprising  considering the source you used.
But if you want a meme that does address the issue ..


----------



## basilio (10 January 2019)

Or if  you really wanted to understand what is happening under the current President.


----------



## basilio (10 January 2019)

ghotib said:


> <ahem> Errr... Some of us can access more bandwidth than others of us.




Fair comment. But in the end I believe the vids I reference are interesting enough and useful enough to add value to the discussion.


----------



## noirua (12 January 2019)




----------



## noirua (12 January 2019)

noirua said:


>




Looking at the wall of steel it would be easy to pass drugs through the gaps in the steel wall. Also battery powered cutting tools could be used to cut a nice gap to crawl through. Noting the 'great escape from Colditz' a tunnel could easily be dug underneath the steel wall.


----------



## Knobby22 (13 January 2019)

noirua said:


> Looking at the wall of steel it would be easy to pass drugs through the gaps in the steel wall. Also battery powered cutting tools could be used to cut a nice gap to crawl through. Noting the 'great escape from Colditz' a tunnel could easily be dug underneath the steel wall.



Maybe get advice from the Israelis?


----------



## noirua (14 January 2019)




----------



## noirua (17 January 2019)

There's also Hadrian's Wall in Scotland and the Great Wall of China. Australia hasn't got a wall and very soon no country can really be without one. WA has a rabbit fence. There are some good retaining walls: 
https://www.engineersaustralia.org....walls-series-innovative-retaining-systems-vic


----------



## Sdajii (20 January 2019)

basilio said:


> Well Logique you manged to dig a bit deeper to find some choice nasties to avoid what Trump is doing to the US. Not surprising  considering the source you used.
> But if you want a meme that does address the issue ..
> View attachment 91252




I'd probably point out that this is at least partly a red herring in that you are pretending this is primarily a terrorist issue when in reality it's more illegal workers/immigrants, most of the arriving criminals are committing crimes other than terrorism, it's a lot to do with smuggling things other than people, etc etc.

I may or may not bother to point out that you are either stupid or disingenuous for saying this.


----------



## Sdajii (20 January 2019)

basilio said:


> Or if  you really wanted to understand what is happening under the current President.
> View attachment 91255




Probably point out that you're being disingenuous for implying that the current situation is a hostage scenario, and that the money will be used for the country it is being taken from, not taken away for someone's personal gain.


----------



## Sdajii (20 January 2019)

noirua said:


> Looking at the wall of steel it would be easy to pass drugs through the gaps in the steel wall. Also battery powered cutting tools could be used to cut a nice gap to crawl through. Noting the 'great escape from Colditz' a tunnel could easily be dug underneath the steel wall.




You'd think these days they'd have technology to detect that sort of damage to the wall. I've often thought about the tunneling though.


----------



## Smurf1976 (20 January 2019)

Sdajii said:


> most of the arriving criminals are committing crimes other than terrorism



Apart from the obvious one of illegal entry to the US, are most of them committing any other crime at all?

What's the % that are actually committing some other crime apart from entry?


----------



## Smurf1976 (20 January 2019)

noirua said:


> There are some good retaining walls



Even better we have a member of ASF who runs, or at least was a while ago, a business that builds them.

Maybe ask for a quote?


----------



## basilio (30 January 2019)

This guy is so, so  special
 *Donald J. Trump*‏Verified account @*realDonaldTrump* Jan 27


We are not even into February and the cost of illegal immigration so far this year is $18,959,495,168. Cost Friday was $603,331,392. There are at least 25,772,342 illegal aliens, not the 11,000,000 that have been reported for years, in our Country. So ridiculous! DHS

Wow!  I didn't know that the great Liar in Chief was able to identify *to the last dollar and  to the last alien *the troubles in the US.

So what is more troubling ? A President who clearly just makes up all sorts of lying tosh because he feels like or a party and supporter base that swallows this rubbish because ??


----------



## noirua (30 January 2019)

basilio said:


> This guy is so, so  special
> *Donald J. Trump*‏Verified account @*realDonaldTrump* Jan 27
> 
> 
> ...





*Who Were the Most Dishonest Presidents in History (and How Does Donald Trump Compare?)*
https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/...story-and-how-does-donald-trump-compare.html/
*The Massive Lies Of Past Presidents Make Trump Look Honest*
https://www.heritage.org/conservati...e-lies-past-presidents-make-trump-look-honest


----------



## basilio (30 January 2019)

noirua said:


> *Who Were the Most Dishonest Presidents in History (and How Does Donald Trump Compare?)*
> https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/...story-and-how-does-donald-trump-compare.html/
> *The Massive Lies Of Past Presidents Make Trump Look Honest*
> https://www.heritage.org/conservati...e-lies-past-presidents-make-trump-look-honest




I think that story says far more about the originators than past Presidents.


----------



## Tink (7 February 2019)

https://www.whitehouse.gov/


----------



## basilio (7 February 2019)

Tink said:


> https://www.whitehouse.gov/





That is so sweet... *
The Glorious Fuhrer of our Beloved United States promises to be the Light and Glory of the Free World. *
Such oratory, such majesty, such total BS,
So many willing  followers and swallowers.


----------



## basilio (7 February 2019)




----------



## Tink (7 February 2019)

Here is another tweet..



https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/3543.Ronald_Reagan


----------



## Tink (11 February 2019)




----------



## luutzu (11 February 2019)

Sdajii said:


> I'd probably point out that this is at least partly a red herring in that you are pretending this is primarily a terrorist issue when in reality it's more illegal workers/immigrants, most of the arriving criminals are committing crimes other than terrorism, it's a lot to do with smuggling things other than people, etc etc.
> 
> I may or may not bother to point out that you are either stupid or disingenuous for saying this.




Most drugs are smuggled through tunnels or hidden in vehicles and other packaging in plain site.

No drug cartel put them on some refugees back pack.

Funny how Trump, Pence and them warriors want to free and liberate the Venezuelans from tyranny... yet these other south americans claiming they're escaping death squads and gang violence... or simply trying to seek freedom and democracy are being told to go f themselves.


----------



## luutzu (11 February 2019)

Tink said:


>





I'm sure Trump CAP that "TRAIL" to hint at that "Trail of Tears" where Native Americans were marched off into some far flung, frozen corner of the US. Most of them died on the way.

He's such a racist, nasty little shite. Can't believe people refuse to see through that.


----------



## Sdajii (11 February 2019)

luutzu said:


> Most drugs are smuggled through tunnels or hidden in vehicles and other packaging in plain site.
> 
> No drug cartel put them on some refugees back pack.
> 
> Funny how Trump, Pence and them warriors want to free and liberate the Venezuelans from tyranny... yet these other south americans claiming they're escaping death squads and gang violence... or simply trying to seek freedom and democracy are being told to go f themselves.




It's probably true that most of the drugs are smuggled in vehicles, though I doubt a significant amount goes through tunnels.

However, you are actually acknowledging how effective you think the wall would (will) be! Very strange! This completely legitimises the decision to build it.


----------



## luutzu (11 February 2019)

Sdajii said:


> It's probably true that most of the drugs are smuggled in vehicles, though I doubt a significant amount goes through tunnels.
> 
> However, you are actually acknowledging how effective you think the wall would (will) be! Very strange! This completely legitimises the decision to build it.




Where did I say a wall would be effective? Against what?

There's already fences, walls, border patrol etc. etc. there. Trump somehow managed to make it appear, sometimes, as though there isn't any.

If you just glance at the recent history of what the US is doing in South America lately. And I mean recent, not the 80s or before that... They've been flipping democratically elected gov't in at least half a dozen Latin American countries.

It's both parties... Clinton, Obama. So there's the dictators, right wing nutjobs, gang violence, drug cartels... then the IMF and their neoCons; NAFTA and those "free trade" deals. Heck, even Canada and their mining corporations did a number across the region. Canada, you wouldn't think them Canadians would be so hawkish. 

So the whole place is being looted, again. People struggled to make ends meet. Trek north to get a job to send some money home... most of them are seasonal and will either be picked up by ICE or just go back home after a picking season.

Trump manages to turn this into a big massive "security" issue. Why? Mainly because he needed scapegoats for why the average Americans aren't making ends meet. It cannot possibly be the endless wars, those trillions in tax cuts. It must be those aliens taking good paying jobs and committing crimes.


----------



## Sdajii (14 February 2019)

luutzu said:


> Where did I say a wall would be effective? Against what?




If you don't think it's going to be effective, why do you cry for the illegal immigrants?



> There's already fences, walls, border patrol etc. etc. there. Trump somehow managed to make it appear, sometimes, as though there isn't any.




Is this ignorance or a bad troll or something? In case there's any value in addressing this at face value: Some areas have no barrier of any sort and in some areas it will be upgraded.



> If you just glance at the recent history of what the US is doing in South America lately. And I mean recent, not the 80s or before that... They've been flipping democratically elected gov't in at least half a dozen Latin American countries.




Ah, the old red herring strategy.



> Trump manages to turn this into a big massive "security" issue. Why? Mainly because he needed scapegoats for why the average Americans aren't making ends meet. It cannot possibly be the endless wars, those trillions in tax cuts. It must be those aliens taking good paying jobs and committing crimes.




This obviously makes no sense. Americans are making ends meet far better than before he took power, especially non white Americans (so much for this supposedly racist/white supremacist president stomping down the coloured folks!). If he needed to use them as a scapegoat he wouldn't be trying to get the wall build, because that would kill his ability to use them as a scapegoat, unless he claimed his wall failed, in which case he would have to be deliberately setting himself up for failure. You are plainly making no sense at all.


----------



## luutzu (14 February 2019)

Sdajii said:


> If you don't think it's going to be effective, why do you cry for the illegal immigrants?




Walls, like fences, are only effective against law-abiding people.
That's why there are lines and lines of refugees at the US port of entry.

People trek all that thousands of miles. Escaping violence, hunger, famine, war... yea, that mean getting a better life, a chance to start and send some cash home so their family won't die... they lined up, submit their claim to asylum.. which they are legally entitled to under both the UN and the US law.

Guess what the US does?

They make that freaking bridge into that port of entry as narrow as possible. Staff it with as few people as possible. Let people wait in line for days and days, some even weeks. Then they either keep lining up or get stuffed or climb a fence somewhere.

Then they're labelled as illegal alien. Carrying drugs, bringing crimes; stealing babies. 

But sure, put up a wall 'cause a wall always stop criminals trying to climb or dig or cut their way through.




Sdajii said:


> Is this ignorance or a bad troll or something? In case there's any value in addressing this at face value: Some areas have no barrier of any sort and in some areas it will be upgraded.




Places without fencing have natural barriers. Like a desert or a ravine.



Sdajii said:


> Ah, the old red herring strategy.



Why is that a red hering?

Look up and see why those South American countries are so poor and over run by drug cartel and dictators. Why their small farm can no longer survive when US-subsidised ag. floods the market, bankrupt small local farmers with low prices... then jack it up once the locals no longer grow their own.

You want to pass judgment, you ought to see the whole history. Not just look at what Trump and his retards tells you.

Yea, they're bad guys. THey're drug dealers, criminals, economic migrants wanting to come over, take your job and rape your daughters.

Thing is, surveys have shown that most Americans are very good people. They even want their gov't to go into debt to help refugees; they want the poor fed, the sick taken care of.

These azzholes politicians knew that. But being psychos, they thought money is better spent giving themselves tax cuts and subsidise their own industries and warmongering.

So they demonise the poor, the old, the weak... those refugees these wars cause; those economic migrants forced off their land... it's not because of trade policies that enriches the ag. giants, no, it's just brown people being greedy and want things for free.

If you want to fall for that, that's your choice.



Sdajii said:


> This obviously makes no sense. Americans are making ends meet far better than before he took power, especially non white Americans (so much for this supposedly racist/white supremacist president stomping down the coloured folks!). If he needed to use them as a scapegoat he wouldn't be trying to get the wall build, because that would kill his ability to use them as a scapegoat, unless he claimed his wall failed, in which case he would have to be deliberately setting himself up for failure. You are plainly making no sense at all.




No they're not.

Even teachers, working full time, aren't making ends meet. I saw an interview where some HS kid said he saw UBER stickers on most of his school teachers' cars. That's why teachers are protesting these past couple years.

Survey showed that those on "unskilled" wages aren't making ends meet. Guess what proportion of "unskilled" labour is in the US? About 75%.

Well, he know the stupid wall wouldn't work. So he can get his wall construction friends a few billions of work; show the idiots among his voters he's doing something to help them; and illegals still swarm over the fence.

I mean, mate... if people could walk all that distant to reach the border, you really think a wall is going to stop them? Honestly?


----------



## explod (14 February 2019)

Iutzu, that is a most excellent post.  Real humanity is so misunderstood.

I've learned unfortunately that it is only those who have lived it who can understand.


----------



## Darc Knight (15 February 2019)

There are probably three types of uncaring people: those who just don't know how sad and unfair life can be, those who don't want to know, and those who just don't have any empathy whatsoever (the sociopaths and psychopaths).


----------



## luutzu (15 February 2019)

Darc Knight said:


> There are probably three types of uncaring people: those who just don't know how sad and unfair life can be, those who don't want to know, and those who just don't have any empathy whatsoever (the sociopaths and psychopaths).





Maybe a fourth: Those who know, play a major part in causing the misery, but pretending to care and want to help.

They're like... most all senior level politician.

Or this douche, a convicted war criminal (pardoned by Bush Snr) Trump's team pick to lead free the Venezuelans, bringing democracy, food and medicine to it.

Hearing his experience and involvement in the death squads, the coups, the genocide in Latin America... and now he's brought back to (not) do the same. You can't really make this up.


----------



## Sdajii (15 February 2019)

luutzu said:


> Walls, like fences, are only effective against law-abiding people.
> That's why there are lines and lines of refugees at the US port of entry.




This is clearly untrue rhetoric to try to push your agenda. Walls work. If walls don't work, why are they used all over the world, including, ironically, by the people claiming that walls don't work? It's like the pope publicly declaring that anyone using guns to stop violence is a hypocrite, while he literally surrounds himself with guards armed with guns! And incidentally, living in a walled city! The ability of people like you to remain in denial is quite remarkable.



> People trek all that thousands of miles. Escaping violence, hunger, famine, war... yea, that mean getting a better life, a chance to start and send some cash home so their family won't die... they lined up, submit their claim to asylum.. which they are legally entitled to under both the UN and the US law.
> 
> Guess what the US does?
> 
> They make that freaking bridge into that port of entry as narrow as possible. Staff it with as few people as possible. Let people wait in line for days and days, some even weeks. Then they either keep lining up or get stuffed or climb a fence somewhere.




So later in this very post you talk about American citizens including full time teachers (your example) being unable to make ends meet, which clearly indicates that the USA is not as prosperous as it once was and has countless people doing it really tough, but you expect them to put huge resources into helping the needy? Why is the USA dumped with this huge responsibility? The USA is clearly doing better than its southern neighbours, but you seem to be a global socialist believing they have a responsibility to take in anyone who would be better off living in the USA? Which country in the world allows anyone who wants to come in because it would improve their life?



> Then they're labelled as illegal alien. Carrying drugs, bringing crimes; stealing babies.




Because they are illegal aliens. And proportionately, they do commit more crimes than American citizens or legal immigrants.



> But sure, put up a wall 'cause a wall always stop criminals trying to climb or dig or cut their way through.




Again, if walls don't work, why do countries all over the world use them and why do you care anyway? If you genuinely think it'll be ineffective, why not sit back and laugh about it? You're either stupid or disingenuous if you're upset about something which you claim will do nothing.



> Places without fencing have natural barriers. Like a desert or a ravine.




Again, if you believe that these places are impassable, why do you care?



> Why is that a red hering?
> 
> Look up and see why those South American countries are so poor and over run by drug cartel and dictators. Why their small farm can no longer survive when US-subsidised ag. floods the market, bankrupt small local farmers with low prices... then jack it up once the locals no longer grow their own.
> 
> You want to pass judgment, you ought to see the whole history. Not just look at what Trump and his retards tells you.




True, maybe we could also look at what Obama and Clinton said about the situation. Oh, but when they called for a wall on the southern border it wasn't racist, because the media was telling us to love them not hate them. Is that it?



> Thing is, surveys have shown that most Americans are very good people. They even want their gov't to go into debt to help refugees; they want the poor fed, the sick taken care of.




Thing is, Trump literally won the presidential election and the wall was a very big part of his platform. You clearly don't believe in democracy when it doesn't go your way.



> These azzholes politicians knew that. But being psychos, they thought money is better spent giving themselves tax cuts and subsidise their own industries and warmongering.




Red herrings again. At least Trump is less of a warmongerer than Obama so that must keep you at least a little happy, right?



> So they demonise the poor, the old, the weak... those refugees these wars cause; those economic migrants forced off their land... it's not because of trade policies that enriches the ag. giants, no, it's just brown people being greedy and want things for free.




Not really, it's just like in any country in the world with a few European exceptions (which are having extreme problems because of it!), they want to look after their country and freely allowing in everyone who wants to come in would be a problem. Which country lets in everyone who wants to enter?



> Well, he know the stupid wall wouldn't work. So he can get his wall construction friends a few billions of work; show the idiots among his voters he's doing something to help them; and illegals still swarm over the fence.
> I mean, mate... if people could walk all that distant to reach the border, you really think a wall is going to stop them? Honestly?




Why do countries all over the world use them? If it won't work, why do you care so much? Where is this passion coming from if it won't do anything anyway?


----------



## luutzu (15 February 2019)

Sdajii said:


> This is clearly untrue rhetoric to try to push your agenda. Walls work. If walls don't work, why are they used all over the world, including, ironically, by the people claiming that walls don't work? It's like the pope publicly declaring that anyone using guns to stop violence is a hypocrite, while he literally surrounds himself with guards armed with guns! And incidentally, living in a walled city! The ability of people like you to remain in denial is quite remarkable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Beside that old Great Wall of China, Hadrian's and those surrounding castles.. well, Israel... how many countries have a literal wall nowadays?

Sure, have your national boundaries; sure have securities and protect your border... You don't need to do it all with a literal, physical wall. Do you?

The southern border Trump plans to wall off is about 2.5K miles? That's some 5,000 Km right?

Sydney to Perth is 3,933Km. Melbourne to Cairns is 2,943Km... You're getting the scale of the project here right?

What's the price estimate again? From $US20Billion to $US25B?

It costs less than $1B to end homelessness in the US.

Freaking Trump and his repubs just recently cut back "entitlements" like giving American kids meal vouchers at school as that's often their only full meal in the day. Cutting back on seniors, the elderly their "benefits" and medicare... Pushing disabled and injured people back to work, giving them that "dignity" and all that bs else they won't get any pennies.

Do you know how far 1/20th of that proposed $20B for a stupid wall could go towards feeding and healing those Americans?

You heard of teachers protesting for a higher wage, walk off the job but some of them still pack lunches for their students because they know the kids won't get fed otherwise.

There are over 3,000 American cities where the water has high level of lead in it.

The list can go on and on...

So, Trump want his stupid billions for a wall.

How many wall, physical barriers do you think a refugee crosses to get to the US?

------------

If Trump really do give a damn about the average Americans and their safety, their well being... he'd start by not giving $2Trillion in tax cuts to the corporate elite in under two years.

His admin wouldn't systematically deregulate, and then brag about cutting the most "red tapes" ever.

What are those red tapes? Pollution, fuel efficiency standards, payday lending etc. etc.

So why wouldn't anyone be upset and angry on hearing the nonsense he's spouting. That should be the question.

They're either ill informed, or just a total idiot. I'm leaning towards being ill-informed.

---------

I don't care for Obama, or Billy Clinton, or Hillary.

As said before, those two black presidents are worst than Trump. Trump has always been a lying piece of crap who doesn't give a damn about anyone or anything but money. So he's just being himself, as lowly and amoral as that is.

Clinton and Obama came from poor working families. They knew what it's like to have nothing, be given an opportunity... and when presented with both the position and the opportunities to do something they know is right, they freaking chose money and power over those whose stories and effort they've used and manipulated to get to power.

So yea, they're lower than Trump. That's not saying Trump is any better a human being though.

----------

As to the average Americans doing badly so why should their taxes be used to house and fed the poor foreigners.

For one, their taxes are being use to feed and house and subsidise those rich azzholes on Wall St and in high places right now.

They would rather, being decent human beings that most of them are, have those taxes be spent and "wasted" on their rundown roads, their freezing cold, sweltering mould infested schools... and help those in danger and in need of help as a few thousands often mean life and literal death.

Second, those come seeking refuge aren't coming to just take but not give.

ANyway, been said before.

As to illegals committing more crimes... well, beside that crime of illegally entering the US, studies have shown they commit way less crime than the average citizen group.


----------



## Sdajii (15 February 2019)

luutzu said:


> Beside that old Great Wall of China, Hadrian's and those surrounding castles.. well, Israel... how many countries have a literal wall nowadays?




65 completed or under construction with many more in the pipeline. Multiples more than when the Berlin Wall came down.



> Sure, have your national boundaries; sure have securities and protect your border... You don't need to do it all with a literal, physical wall. Do you?




Not in Australia, but dozens, soon to be over 100 countries think it's a good idea. That's a pretty significant proportion of all the world's countries even if you include the ones like Australia which are literal islands.



> The southern border Trump plans to wall off is about 2.5K miles? That's some 5,000 Km right?




Are you trying to earn a cookie or something?



> Sydney to Perth is 3,933Km. Melbourne to Cairns is 2,943Km... You're getting the scale of the project here right?




Acting like I have no concept of distance is pointless and silly. Incidentally, I did one of those drives (Melbourne to Cairns, return) recently. I've made at least about 10 international border crossings per year (around 25-30 in 2018) over the last 5 years and have travelled don't ask how many KM; I have a fair concept of distance and international borders.



> What's the price estimate again? From $US20Billion to $US25B?
> 
> It costs less than $1B to end homelessness in the US.




Estimates of the wall cost range from $5 billion (likely completely unrealistic) up to about $25B. If you think $1B would end US homelessness you probably should go back to finger painting and crayons.



> Freaking Trump and his repubs just recently cut back "entitlements" like giving American kids meal vouchers at school as that's often their only full meal in the day. Cutting back on seniors, the elderly their "benefits" and medicare... Pushing disabled and injured people back to work, giving them that "dignity" and all that bs else they won't get any pennies.




Do you want him to keep giving Americans as much free stuff as possible or let more refugees in? Pick one, they work against each other.



> Do you know how far 1/20th of that proposed $20B for a stupid wall could go towards feeding and healing those Americans?




Far, far less than you seem to think.

You seem to think a billion dollars is a lot of money in this context. If we were to take a billion dollars it would buy approximately half a Big Mac for everyone in the USA, even if you exclude undocumented immigrants. You somehow think this is enough to solve homelessness! It's difficult to fathom how you could be so out of touch with the reality of the figures you're talking about, yet this doesn't stop you from making comments about them as though you deserve to be on some high horse of proportional understanding.



> You heard of teachers protesting for a higher wage, walk off the job but some of them still pack lunches for their students because they know the kids won't get fed otherwise.




That's nice of them. You love your irrelevant points, don't you? It's cool that despite being unable to make ends meet they're able to feed dozens of children.



> There are over 3,000 American cities where the water has high level of lead in it.




Sounds like a reason for America to put America first.



> The list can go on and on...




Indeed!



> So, Trump want his stupid billions for a wall.
> 
> How many wall, physical barriers do you think a refugee crosses to get to the US?
> 
> ...




This is irrelevant and repetitive.


----------



## luutzu (15 February 2019)

Sdajii said:


> 65 completed or under construction with many more in the pipeline. Multiples more than when the Berlin Wall came down.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




So not $1B, how much to end homelessness?

ANd does ending homelessness mean building housing or paying for their rent, giving things away all for free? Or could homelessness be ended through such things as temporary shelter first, then vocational training, creating job opportunities so that people can have a chance to get out of the rud then help themselves.

Depends on how you want to define and solve the situation, costs can be inflated to make it too high to not give a damn.

So it'll costs billions and billions to end homelessness. That's too much. But let's spend that tens of billions on a wall, yeah... let's do that! Totally makes sense.

--------

Well, given the stuff you believe in, I was just being cautious about your comprehension of space and reality.

So it's a good idea to build a "big, beautiful wall" like that of Israel from Melbourne to Cairns. What are you high?

Most countries have "walls" made up of barbed wires and other cheap stuff. Nobody goes and build a wall while the country is in poverty. That's like selling the farm to build the fence.

That's why people who know security relies on gunships, helicopters, coastguards, radar and a military to protect their country and not a wall.

Maybe between your travels, at them airports... flick to alternative news channel or lectures and interviews for your reading. Fox is not a real news network.


----------



## Sdajii (15 February 2019)

luutzu said:


> So not $1B, how much to end homelessness?
> 
> ANd does ending homelessness mean building housing or paying for their rent, giving things away all for free? Or could homelessness be ended through such things as temporary shelter first, then vocational training, creating job opportunities so that people can have a chance to get out of the rud then help themselves.
> 
> ...




Generally this issue takes a generation to solve. People generally need to be taught to live productive lives and make the most of themselves, to be driven and motivated and not useless deadbeats. They need education, etc. Once a person is a homeless adult they're pretty much not ever likely to be productive members of society. We can point out exceptions or fawn over PC bullspit, but this is the reality. If you want to just magically solve homelessness, for the majority, you need to do it through welfare so it's an ongoing cost of whatever you consider the minimum ongoing cost of living is. This figure for over a half a million people needs to be expressed per year not as one single figure, and it's a heck of a lot more than $20B as a one off sum. 




> Well, given the stuff you believe in, I was just being cautious about your comprehension of space and reality.




Shall I start insulting you according to your own standards? It might be fun, although I'll need crayons and crepe paper.



> So it's a good idea to build a "big, beautiful wall" like that of Israel from Melbourne to Cairns. What are you high?
> 
> Most countries have "walls" made up of barbed wires and other cheap stuff. Nobody goes and build a wall while the country is in poverty. That's like selling the farm to build the fence.
> 
> That's why people who know security relies on gunships, helicopters, coastguards, radar and a military to protect their country and not a wall.




Blah blah blah



> Maybe between your travels, at them airports... flick to alternative news channel or lectures and interviews for your reading. Fox is not a real news network.




I generally don't watch Fox News other than something around a few minutes every couple of months when it happens to be on wherever I am. It's stupid, although of course nowhere near as bad as CNN, which is often the only available foreign news network available in many areas I travel in, it's shoved down the throats of many people involuntarily (though often gleefully). It's interesting that you would insult Fox News (not that I will defend it) but support the rhetoric of and apparently be in support of CNN despite it being so incredibly disingenuous and deliberately so. Or is it okay for you to accuse me of being a Fox adherent because I oppose some of the left's insanity but you'll employ a double standard if I say the equivalent of you being on CNN's side? Or, perhaps you're insane enough to actually admire CNN and consider it an actual news source rather than a blatant, disingenuous propaganda pushing tool? It actually wouldn't surprise me that much given the amount of mainstream brainwashing which can clearly been successful on you given what you post in many of the threads here.


----------



## luutzu (15 February 2019)

Sdajii said:


> Generally this issue takes a generation to solve. People generally need to be taught to live productive lives and make the most of themselves, to be driven and motivated and not useless deadbeats. They need education, etc. Once a person is a homeless adult they're pretty much not ever likely to be productive members of society. We can point out exceptions or fawn over PC bullspit, but this is the reality. If you want to just magically solve homelessness, for the majority, you need to do it through welfare so it's an ongoing cost of whatever you consider the minimum ongoing cost of living is. This figure for over a half a million people needs to be expressed per year not as one single figure, and it's a heck of a lot more than $20B as a one off sum.



For argument's sake, let's say all those who are homeless are deadbeat, lazy, no good bums who didn't pay attention at school. And that to help them will cost good honest taxpayers too much.

How much was Trump's military budget last year? Around $US760 Billion?

How much was the first tax cuts? $1.5 Trillion over ten years. Then another $500B tax cuts from a redefinition of what capital gains is.

There seem to be plenty of cash when wars and bombs got to be dropped; billionaires and shareholders to not at all receive welfare.

But when it comes to feeding and housing the homeless... Who's going to pay for that, right? Where's the money.

Jesus man. You know what they're doing right?

The likes of Trump is driving what little humanity we have. Pitting desperately poor people against more desperate people over crumbs. And some of us just enjoy taking in the bs.

As to why people are homeless... there's a unique story behind every misfortune. Some might come from broken homes. Some make mistakes. Some just never had a chance. Maybe some were given everything but screwed it all up.

Some might even went to war, came back and beside a medal, no shites were given. Mental breakdown, trauma, family break up, no help or assistance... It's all their fault though. Sure.

Just as Trump is a self-made man; or Bush Jr. a god fearing everyday man... they got there because they just work hard and are real smart. Never con anyone; never fail; never take drugs or booze.

What world do you live in to believe that a person's station in life is all of their doing.




Sdajii said:


> Shall I start insulting you according to your own standards? It might be fun, although I'll need crayons and crepe paper.
> Blah blah blah



Wasn't an insult if it's a fact. How am I to know you can imagine how long that 5,000 or so Km is.

I mean, if some orange idiot mention fencing "a wall"... doesn't sound too bad. But a wall from Melbourne to Cairns... that's a bit f'ed up isn't it. Rabbit proof fencing or the ones that keeps out zoombies and illegals? 'cause that sounds expensive. Where you going to get the money for that?

Oh... heard that Trump is going to declare a "state of emergency" and then trim back on other useless and unimportant budget to pay for the wall.

Education. Meals for hungry kids. Coast guards... a wall will solve it all.



Sdajii said:


> I generally don't watch Fox News other than something around a few minutes every couple of months when it happens to be on wherever I am. It's stupid, although of course nowhere near as bad as CNN, which is often the only available foreign news network available in many areas I travel in, it's shoved down the throats of many people involuntarily (though often gleefully). It's interesting that you would insult Fox News (not that I will defend it) but support the rhetoric of and apparently be in support of CNN despite it being so incredibly disingenuous and deliberately so. Or is it okay for you to accuse me of being a Fox adherent because I oppose some of the left's insanity but you'll employ a double standard if I say the equivalent of you being on CNN's side? Or, perhaps you're insane enough to actually admire CNN and consider it an actual news source rather than a blatant, disingenuous propaganda pushing tool? It actually wouldn't surprise me that much given the amount of mainstream brainwashing which can clearly been successful on you given what you post in many of the threads here.




You think CNN is the left?

Man, if a news organisation is own by a corporation, chances are 100% it's not a lefty.


----------



## noirua (16 February 2019)




----------



## noirua (16 February 2019)




----------



## luutzu (16 February 2019)

noirua said:


>





Is it a national security emergency, or is it a humanitarian crisis?

They can't be both, at the same time, cause by the same people.


----------



## Sdajii (16 February 2019)

luutzu said:


> For argument's sake, let's say all those who are homeless are deadbeat, lazy, no good bums who didn't pay attention at school. And that to help them will cost good honest taxpayers too much.




Weird that you said this without going on to relate it to anything.



> How much was Trump's military budget last year? Around $US760 Billion?




LOL, 'Trump's budget'. You say that like Obama wasn't the biggest warmonger or that the USA was a peaceful nation of people making daisy chains until Trump changed everything.



> How much was the first tax cuts? $1.5 Trillion over ten years. Then another $500B tax cuts from a redefinition of what capital gains is.




Makes $20B seem tiny, right? Are you getting any concept of proportion yet?



> There seem to be plenty of cash when wars and bombs got to be dropped




Indeed, and by comparison, the funding for the wall is tiny.



> But when it comes to feeding and housing the homeless... Who's going to pay for that, right? Where's the money.




Sadly that's a far more expensive thing than the wall. If it wasn't, it would already have been paid for. You say this like you're entirely oblivious to the fact that the USA has already put far more than $20B into looking after the homeless. Or... were you actually unaware of this? Perhaps you actually are that naive come to think of it, since you actually said that far less than the cost of the wall could solve homelessness. Oh, good grief! You actually are that ignorant... wow.



> Jesus man. You know what they're doing right?




In light of the above, it occurs to me that you are probably so distanced from reality that I probably have little idea of what you imagine they are doing.



> The likes of Trump is driving what little humanity we have. Pitting desperately poor people against more desperate people over crumbs. And some of us just enjoy taking in the bs.




This makes little sense.



> As to why people are homeless... there's a unique story behind every misfortune. Some might come from broken homes. Some make mistakes. Some just never had a chance. Maybe some were given everything but screwed it all up.




Whatever. I came from a broken home, grew up watching abuse, blah blah blah, I didn't have family support and as a child I never had parental guidance of any worth, it was close to zero and zero would have been better. I spent the night of my 21st birthday sleeping in my broken down car which was my home at the time. I had no tertiary education or work experience. Someone like me wasn't going to let a bad childhood keep me in the gutter, I dragged myself out of it and now live a really cool lifestyle. I don't think giving me a comfortable full time wage for free for a few years would have helped me when I was 21, it probably would have been an expensive way to keep me down. As soon as that money stopped I would have been back to where I started and had a more difficult time sorting myself out because I had become dependent on welfare. 



> Some might even went to war, came back and beside a medal, no shites were given. Mental breakdown, trauma, family break up, no help or assistance... It's all their fault though. Sure.




It is what it is. People go through hard times. It's sad, it sucks. Some dig themselves out, some don't have the will or they're too broken. Some people are stronger than others, some encounter better or worse luck. This is irrelevant. 



> Just as Trump is a self-made man; or Bush Jr. a god fearing everyday man... they got there because they just work hard and are real smart. Never con anyone; never fail; never take drugs or booze.




You have a talent for stating the irrelevant.



> What world do you live in to believe that a person's station in life is all of their doing.




Luck is part of it, you pretending I don't understand this doesn't mean I don't actually understand it. It is still irrelevant though.



> Wasn't an insult if it's a fact. How am I to know you can imagine how long that 5,000 or so Km is.




Insults can be factual. The depth of your stupidity is quite remarkable. Here's a quick lesson hopefully even you can understand. If a person is stupid and you call them stupid, it is both factual and insulting. "You are fat and disgusting" is a factual insult when directed at a fat, disgusting person.

What a peculiar person you are to think it worthwhile to ask the question of how you could know I can imagine 5,000km is! I don't know how much you know about genetics (I'll take a guess at very little), but that's no reason for me to make the assertion you know nothing. The very fact that I don't have any information guiding me to assess you in this way means that I should not insult you by assuming you know less than average. Again, this is a basic concept and I hope you've been able to learn something here. Hint: It's applicable to any facet of any person you interact with.



> I mean, if some orange idiot mention fencing "a wall"... doesn't sound too bad. But a wall from Melbourne to Cairns... that's a bit f'ed up isn't it. Rabbit proof fencing or the ones that keeps out zoombies and illegals? 'cause that sounds expensive. Where you going to get the money for that?




Isn't it funny that you literally feel comfortable enough to insult someone, literally based on the colour of their skin. I mean, one would hope even you would be above this, but I suppose that means one would be disappointed by you. As for the funding, apparently not from Mexico! Apparently by declaring an emergency in order to obtain it from national funds.



> Oh... heard that Trump is going to declare a "state of emergency" and then trim back on other useless and unimportant budget to pay for the wall.




Not how I would have worded it, but apparently that's the reality causing you so much grief.



> Education. Meals for hungry kids. Coast guards... a wall will solve it all.




Nice strawman! No one made that claim, but thanks for removing any doubt about your complete lack of credibility, just in case anyone was wondering.



> You think CNN is the left?
> 
> Man, if a news organisation is own by a corporation, chances are 100% it's not a lefty.




This is quite amusing. Okay, I'll play. So if CNN is not left, would you say it is right or centrist? Is Trump right? Is Fox right or left? Do you believe CNN is neutral or pushing an agenda of any sort at all? You you believe CNN is credible?


----------



## sptrawler (16 February 2019)

The great thing about Trump, whether people like it or not, he is testing the Republic system.


----------



## luutzu (16 February 2019)

Sdajii said:


> Weird that you said this without going on to relate it to anything.



Weren't you saying that the homeless can't be helped? That they're too far gone, too useless they were helped but just didn't take the help so it will not costs too much to house them?

Something like that?



Sdajii said:


> LOL, 'Trump's budget'. You say that like Obama wasn't the biggest warmonger or that the USA was a peaceful nation of people making daisy chains until Trump changed everything.




Did I ever say Obama was a peacenik?

Trump increased the military budget by about 10% in his first few months. Then in add another $60B on top of that increase in his second year.

Literally, his admin gave more cash than what the generals at the Pentagon was asking for. You can google it.

But ey, priorities. 



Sdajii said:


> Makes $20B seem tiny, right? Are you getting any concept of proportion yet?
> 
> Indeed, and by comparison, the funding for the wall is tiny.




They just set aside some $1.5B for an estimated 55miles of wall.

US/Mexico border is about 2,000 or 2.5K miles? Say 2K.... that's how much? Assuming it all averages out the same as current budget [which it won't given the terrain, distance from nearest steel manufacturer etc

$1500m / 55 = $27M per mile. Or *$54.5B ??
*
Please check my maths 'cause that sounds like a lot of money.

They wouldn't even put out some $200M to upgrade a damaged potable water system for Flint... literally poisoning the entire city's citizens.

American citizens hair are literally falling off. American kids are literally being poisoned with lead from drinking or having food cooked from corroded pipes and after some 4 years, still not farking fixed like it's not going to kill anybody.

But ey, a border to protect and secure all Americans.

What a joke.




Sdajii said:


> Sadly that's a far more expensive thing than the wall. If it wasn't, it would already have been paid for. You say this like you're entirely oblivious to the fact that the USA has already put far more than $20B into looking after the homeless. Or... were you actually unaware of this? Perhaps you actually are that naive come to think of it, since you actually said that far less than the cost of the wall could solve homelessness. Oh, good grief! You actually are that ignorant... wow.




Have they?
Why not show us the figures. And don't tell me it's over decades.

But I supposed they've tried and have failed. So let's give up on it like they gave up on trickle down economics where tax cuts to the rich didn't create any jobs but try and try again anyway.



Sdajii said:


> In light of the above, it occurs to me that you are probably so distanced from reality that I probably have little idea of what you imagine they are doing.
> 
> This makes little sense.
> 
> Whatever. I came from a broken home, grew up watching abuse, blah blah blah, I didn't have family support and as a child I never had parental guidance of any worth, it was close to zero and zero would have been better. I spent the night of my 21st birthday sleeping in my broken down car which was my home at the time. I had no tertiary education or work experience. Someone like me wasn't going to let a bad childhood keep me in the gutter, I dragged myself out of it and now live a really cool lifestyle. I don't think giving me a comfortable full time wage for free for a few years would have helped me when I was 21, it probably would have been an expensive way to keep me down. As soon as that money stopped I would have been back to where I started and had a more difficult time sorting myself out because I had become dependent on welfare.




Imagine what a little bit of good parenting could have done for you.

But sure, tough love's what needed. It turn kids out real nice.

The Yanks have done better though. No heat at school. No food for their welfare Queen mums. Lots of prisons for petty crimes though.

And ey, if you're ever a teacher and one of your primary school students caught a viral infection that could be life threatening if not treated... and the kid can't be treated because his parent doesn't have health insurance... and God forbid you lie to an insurance company, saying that the kid is your kid so he could be treated. You'll be sued and possibly face prison time.

Stealing hundreds of billions though and you'll get to have trillions more to play with.




Sdajii said:


> It is what it is. People go through hard times. It's sad, it sucks. Some dig themselves out, some don't have the will or they're too broken. Some people are stronger than others, some encounter better or worse luck. This is irrelevant.




Maybe you like your tax dollars going towards worthy welfare receipients like billionaires and corporations. I prefer mine to help those in dire need no matter if it's their own fault, society's or just bad luck.

Different people, different preferences.




Sdajii said:


> You have a talent for stating the irrelevant.
> 
> Luck is part of it, you pretending I don't understand this doesn't mean I don't actually understand it. It is still irrelevant though.




meh.



Sdajii said:


> Insults can be factual. The depth of your stupidity is quite remarkable. Here's a quick lesson hopefully even you can understand. If a person is stupid and you call them stupid, it is both factual and insulting. "You are fat and disgusting" is a factual insult when directed at a fat, disgusting person.
> 
> What a peculiar person you are to think it worthwhile to ask the question of how you could know I can imagine 5,000km is! I don't know how much you know about genetics (I'll take a guess at very little), but that's no reason for me to make the assertion you know nothing. The very fact that I don't have any information guiding me to assess you in this way means that I should not insult you by assuming you know less than average. Again, this is a basic concept and I hope you've been able to learn something here. Hint: It's applicable to any facet of any person you interact with.




Well, I take that back. Seeing how you can obviously picture how far thousands of miles is but still reckon it's a good idea to walled all that distance... must be some kind of special.



Sdajii said:


> Isn't it funny that you literally feel comfortable enough to insult someone, literally based on the colour of their skin. I mean, one would hope even you would be above this, but I suppose that means one would be disappointed by you. As for the funding, apparently not from Mexico! Apparently by declaring an emergency in order to obtain it from national funds.




What colour is Trump's skin? Orange or is he white? I was insulting his unique brand of pizz orange.

Well, no kidding Mexico is not going to pay for it.

Good luck with the Wall though... 

You do realise that Trump and his team of warriors is about to liberate the heck out of Venezuela right.

Do you seriously think the Venezuelans will just sit by and let a foreign-backed douche they never heard of before self-declared himself "interim president", be president? Then backed out quietly if the US send in the marines?

Saddam Hussein was a total complete a-holes. He was a real dictator who butchered his own people. Most Iraqis hates him.

Even then, the US have a nightmare in Iraq. 

Venezuela is democratic. Its elections were approved by the UN and other western organisations as fair... its gov't, flawed as they might be, aren't exactly butchering dissenters or locking up activists.

To now go in and reckon the people will sit by and welcome with open arms. Might God...

If the US think they got an illegal immigration problem now, wait til this coming war drags on and spreads all over Latin America.

Didn't do too well for Europe once Libya was liberated and its borders open, letting thru refugees in the overflow camps into Europe.

Trump's team predicted this, hence the wall. But good luck with a wall stopping desperate people fleeing another series of wars.




Sdajii said:


> Not how I would have worded it, but apparently that's the reality causing you so much grief.
> 
> Nice strawman! No one made that claim, but thanks for removing any doubt about your complete lack of credibility, just in case anyone was wondering.
> 
> This is quite amusing. Okay, I'll play. So if CNN is not left, would you say it is right or centrist? Is Trump right? Is Fox right or left? Do you believe CNN is neutral or pushing an agenda of any sort at all? You you believe CNN is credible?




I don't watch or read news for their commentaries and opinions. I prefer to read the news wires.


----------



## Sdajii (16 February 2019)

luutzu said:


> Weren't you saying that the homeless can't be helped? That they're too far gone, too useless they were helped but just didn't take the help so it will not costs too much to house them?
> 
> Something like that?




You're exaggerating, but the point was that you can't simply solve the country's homeless problem by asking the whole population for a one off donation of half the cost of a Big Mac. Regardless of what you do with that money, it won't work. Even if you gave them a million dollars each you would only solve homelessness for a short time. But what I was saying here is that you didn't relate it to anything. So, was your point simply to agree with me? Okay, at least you've learned something. If not, as usual, your statement was irrelevant.




> Did I ever say Obama was a peacenik?




No, but you said 'Trump's military budget' as though Trump was anomalous in increasing military spending. Which President decreased military spending? Looking over time, has US military spending been increasing or decreasing? So, yeah, obviously Trump increased it. Hillary Clinton would have, Obama did, if any ever don't they're very unusual exceptions, yet, you speak of Trump like he's doing something others wouldn't or haven't.



> Literally, his admin gave more cash than what the generals at the Pentagon was asking for. You can google it.




Why would I google it? The only times you make any sense I already agree with you.



> But ey, priorities.




You realise what would happen to the USA if it didn't have the world's biggest military, right?

Oh, wait, you literally thought everyone donating $3 would end homelessness. Why would I assume any capability in you?

They just set aside some $1.5B for an estimated 55miles of wall.

US/Mexico border is about 2,000 or 2.5K miles? Say 2K.... that's how much? Assuming it all averages out the same as current budget [which it won't given the terrain, distance from nearest steel manufacturer etc

$1500m / 55 = $27M per mile. Or *$54.5B ??
*
Please check my maths 'cause that sounds like a lot of money.
[/quote]

Presumably the cost of the wall in different areas will be different due to remoteness/transport/labour costs, etc. Also presumably the first sections will be more expensive than the last. Most grownups understand basic concepts like these, and I encourage you to try too 



> They wouldn't even put out some $200M to upgrade a damaged potable water system for Flint... literally poisoning the entire city's citizens.




Ah, the cherry picking game. You're such a bad debater it's almost cute.



> American citizens hair are literally falling off. American kids are literally being poisoned with lead from drinking or having food cooked from corroded pipes and after some 4 years, still not farking fixed like it's not going to kill anybody.




Pulling out the emotional manipulation card along with cherry picking and irrelevance. Nice!



> But ey, a border to protect and secure all Americans.




That's what was voted for in the democratic election, yep.



> What a joke.




Indeed you are.



> Have they?
> Why not show us the figures. And don't tell me it's over decades.




So you simultaneously want to compare a one off building cost with an ongoing homelessness cost, and then cry when your own stupid standards are used? Or did you actually think a one off donation of half a Big Mac would solve homelessness?



> But I supposed they've tried and have failed. So let's give up on it like they gave up on trickle down economics where tax cuts to the rich didn't create any jobs but try and try again anyway.




You whinge a lot about the tax cuts for someone on an investment forum. I'd explain the concept to you, but these posts are already too long and you wouldn't believe it even if you were capable of understanding it. But if you feel inclined and have a grownup who can explain it to you, do some research into it.



> Imagine what a little bit of good parenting could have done for you.
> 
> But sure, tough love's what needed. It turn kids out real nice.




Funny how when something shoots your point down you change the context and make it irrelevant, distracting from the issue.



> The Yanks have done better though. No heat at school. No food for their welfare Queen mums. Lots of prisons for petty crimes though.




You sure make a lot of irrelevant whinges.



> And ey, if you're ever a teacher and one of your primary school students caught a viral infection that could be life threatening if not treated... and the kid can't be treated because his parent doesn't have health insurance... and God forbid you lie to an insurance company, saying that the kid is your kid so he could be treated. You'll be sued and possibly face prison time.




You sure make a lot of irrelevant whinges.



> Maybe you like your tax dollars going towards worthy welfare receipients like billionaires and corporations. I prefer mine to help those in dire need no matter if it's their own fault, society's or just bad luck.
> 
> Different people, different preferences.




Another irrelevant stawman. Nonsensical too! Nice!



> What colour is Trump's skin? Orange or is he white? I was insulting his unique brand of pizz orange.




Ah, okay, so you're defending that sort of body image shaming. Gotcha. 



> Well, no kidding Mexico is not going to pay for it.




Heh heh heh, yeah, Trump was totally full of $#!t on that one!



> Good luck with the Wall though...




You say that like it's my wall or something.



> You do realise that Trump and his team of warriors is about to liberate the heck out of Venezuela right.




Yep. I'm literally banking on it.



> Do you seriously think the Venezuelans will just sit by and let a foreign-backed douche they never heard of before self-declared himself "interim president", be president? Then backed out quietly if the US send in the marines?




Are you even trying to relate this to anything relevant?



> Saddam Hussein was a total complete a-holes. He was a real dictator who butchered his own people. Most Iraqis hates him.




Are you playing 'who can be the most irrelevant?' I think you're winning.



> Even then, the US have a nightmare in Iraq.




Another point to Luutzu!



> Venezuela is democratic. Its elections were approved by the UN and other western organisations as fair... its gov't, flawed as they might be, aren't exactly butchering dissenters or locking up activists.




Jesus, I don't know how to score this game but you must be doing extremely well!



> To now go in and reckon the people will sit by and welcome with open arms. Might God...




It's okay, you win.



> If the US think they got an illegal immigration problem now, wait til this coming war drags on and spreads all over Latin America.




It's okay, I hear their president is building a wall to deal with this issue, but I guess you tried to relate it to something. It doesn't quite work, but you definitely lose some points in that irrelevancy game by attempting to relate it back. Sorry.



> Didn't do too well for Europe once Libya was liberated and its borders open, letting thru refugees in the overflow camps into Europe.




They will freely allowed in. Trump wants to build a wall to keep them out, have policies to assess them, etc.



> Trump's team predicted this, hence the wall. But good luck with a wall stopping desperate people fleeing another series of wars.




Hey, I think we'll get to see it being tested.



> I don't watch or read news for their commentaries and opinions. I prefer to read the news wires.




Refusing to comment when pulled up on saying something utterly ridiculous. Quite like you.


----------



## luutzu (16 February 2019)

Sdajii said:


> You're exaggerating, but the point was that you can't simply solve the country's homeless problem by asking the whole population for a one off donation of half the cost of a Big Mac. Regardless of what you do with that money, it won't work. Even if you gave them a million dollars each you would only solve homelessness for a short time. But what I was saying here is that you didn't relate it to anything. So, was your point simply to agree with me? Okay, at least you've learned something. If not, as usual, your statement was irrelevant.
> 
> No, but you said 'Trump's military budget' as though Trump was anomalous in increasing military spending. Which President decreased military spending? Looking over time, has US military spending been increasing or decreasing? So, yeah, obviously Trump increased it. Hillary Clinton would have, Obama did, if any ever don't they're very unusual exceptions, yet, you speak of Trump like he's doing something others wouldn't or haven't.
> 
> ....




Where did I say Trump was the only president that increases the military budget?

Merely pointing out that in two years, he added to it about $150B [some $50B extra first year; top up another $50 second...]

That and the tax cuts, the stupid wall... All that was to show how ridiculous it is for you to say there's not enough money to help the homeless, or the poor, or the sick.

Oh look... costs to end "chronic" homelessness about $1B a year. End all homelessness, $10B.

"About 3.5 million Americans will experience homelessness at some point in time, but only about a half-million are homeless at any given time, and roughly 87,000 of these are chronically homeless. By some estimates, housing a homeless person and providing them with a caseworker to see to their needs costs about $10,000 a year. *That means for less than a billion dollars a year, chronic homelessness could be ended in the U.S*. If temporarily homeless people were housed in temporary housing, and if each temporary residence were occupied half the time, *homelessness of all kinds could be eliminated for about $10 billion a year.* That’s less than a seventh of what the government spends on food stamps."
-- Bloomberg


But sure, it won't work. So let's stop trying.

If you have Netflix, watch the last episode of Dirty Money. It's about Trump and his BS.

The douche never gave a crap about anybody but himself. But now that he's the president, that's all changed and he cares a heck of a lot for all Americans.

Since you believe that, believe you me I got a Harbour Bridge you can buy.


----------



## noirua (17 February 2019)

luutzu said:


> Is it a national security emergency, or is it a humanitarian crisis?
> 
> They can't be both, at the same time, cause by the same people.




The real emergency from America's point of view evolves around drugs being brought across the border through Mexico from Colombia. Note the Colombian President's visit to the Whitehouse to see The Donald. Stopping the drugs reduces the violence and illegals making their way into America from the South.

A metal wall isn't really anything other than time needed and traffickers having to have quality steel blades to cut through it. The present old walls take less than two minutes to penetrate and the new steel barrier about 20 minutes - depending on the quality of the blades and battery drive.

It also means far less troops will be needed and a reduction in the horse backed riders having to chase those bringing drugs in.


----------



## Sdajii (18 February 2019)

I notice your cowardly avoidance of all the nonsense points you made being addressed, but anyway...



luutzu said:


> Where did I say Trump was the only president that increases the military budget?




You stated Trump did it. They all do it. Why bother pointing it out? What point were you attempting to make?



> That and the tax cuts, the stupid wall... All that was to show how ridiculous it is for you to say there's not enough money to help the homeless, or the poor, or the sick.




I'm not sure if you didn't attempt to think this through or you're not capable of it, but I suspect the latter so I won't bother trying to explain.



> Oh look... costs to end "chronic" homelessness about $1B a year. End all homelessness, $10B.
> 
> "About 3.5 million Americans will experience homelessness at some point in time, but only about a half-million are homeless at any given time, and roughly 87,000 of these are chronically homeless. By some estimates, housing a homeless person and providing them with a caseworker to see to their needs costs about $10,000 a year. *That means for less than a billion dollars a year, chronic homelessness could be ended in the U.S*. If temporarily homeless people were housed in temporary housing, and if each temporary residence were occupied half the time, *homelessness of all kinds could be eliminated for about $10 billion a year.* That’s less than a seventh of what the government spends on food stamps."
> -- Bloomberg




Right, so you find some absolute garbage to quote from the internet. I mean, the internet is very big and if you just want to play by cherry picking quotes which agree with you, there's really not much point.

You probably are incapable of and/or will refuse to understand this, but in case anyone else is bothering to read this and it's relevant to someone, here's a quick analogy to the concept of welfare.

If you look at a forest it's full of animals. They all live by doing their thing, hunting or gathering or chasing down a host to parasitise or whatever it is they do for a living. A few for various reasons can't manage and they die. If you come along and start giving free food to these animals, the first ones to take it will be the crappy ones which were struggling, and they'll often end up having babies which will also be dependent. You'll also be attracting more and more animals to the free feed source and they will forget how to do their thing and become dependent. The number of animals living on the free handouts will continue to grow as long as this happens and you will only be making things worse the longer you do it.

This is why ecologists, park rangers, etc etc, say 'don't feed the animals'.

Are you clever enough to see how this relates to chronic welfare?

Now, I'm not saying that welfare shouldn't exist in a species like the human. It has its place. But, dealing with homelessness by simply giving people enough money in a chronic supply so that they're no longer homeless is not a good form of welfare, it is counter productive both in terms of the effect it has on the recipients (with a few exceptions, but certainly on the whole it does more harm than good) and the budget. It without doubt will continually increase the longer the policy of giving free money to homeless people so that they won't be homeless exists.



> But sure, it won't work. So let's stop trying.




Fortunately, we're not trying to the same level of counterproductive insanity that you want, but unfortunately we are already doing it enough that it's a problem.

As I said, I'm not against welfare. If it's done properly it is effective and inexpensive. I'm currently in Thailand and they actually have a really fantastic welfare system here. It would be unpalatable to bleeding hearts like yourself because it's cheap and effective which means the people brainwashing you don't want it because it would solve the problem, but basically, welfare is never available to people who aren't Thai citizens (and if you weren't born here you'll never be eligible), and if you're in a position where you're down and out, no money, no home, no job, the government will let you sleep and eat for free at a temple (you'll be on a mat on the floor in a temple, but it's safe, you'll be eating very basic food, but it'll keep you going), you'll do work while you're there (whatever they feel like getting you to do), and the government will get you a job according to your capability - if you're skilled and smart it'll be something good, if you're not so bright you'll be literally sweeping the street or something, but you'll get enough money to survive. If at any point you don't like it, you're welcome to sleep on the street.

This system would actually solve homelessness for anyone who doesn't want to be homeless at a far lower cost than the welfare system of the USA (or Australia).



> If you have Netflix, watch the last episode of Dirty Money. It's about Trump and his BS.




I have no interest in ever having a Netflix account. I do however already watch a mix of pro and anti Trump nonsense on various sources, as well as other political propaganda. You clearly live in an echo chamber and probably assume I think Trump is perfect.



> The douche never gave a crap about anybody but himself. But now that he's the president, that's all changed and he cares a heck of a lot for all Americans.




I think there's some truth in him never caring about anyone other than himself, as is the case to a similar extent with almost all politicians (again, you single Trump out inappropriately), but Trump's motivation for becoming president, as is clearly to be seen if you bother to research it in a meaningful way rather than to blindly follow what is thrown at you in your echo chamber, is that Trump's empire is in the USA, if the USA fails or falters, his empire is screwed, and he wanted to come along as save the USA from being destroyed. Of course he is going to do what he can for himself while he's there, you'd be an idiot to fail to see that. Which president hasn't been that way? Which Australian PM hasn't? But, like some and unlike others, he genuinely does want the USA to be prosperous and isn't willing to disproportionately hurt the country for his own gain, and in this way he is relatively unusual (especially compared to Obama, the Clintons, and quite arguably the Bush family).



> Since you believe that, believe you me I got a Harbour Bridge you can buy.




It's funny, isn't it? Blindly believing what you are told is such a way of life for you that you assume I am the same, and you also jump right to the incorrect assumption that I believe Trump is a perfect person or something. Do you honestly think I thought he'd changed who he was or that I think he's a perfect role model or something?


----------



## luutzu (18 February 2019)

noirua said:


> The real emergency from America's point of view evolves around drugs being brought across the border through Mexico from Colombia. Note the Colombian President's visit to the Whitehouse to see The Donald. Stopping the drugs reduces the violence and illegals making their way into America from the South.
> 
> A metal wall isn't really anything other than time needed and traffickers having to have quality steel blades to cut through it. The present old walls take less than two minutes to penetrate and the new steel barrier about 20 minutes - depending on the quality of the blades and battery drive.
> 
> It also means far less troops will be needed and a reduction in the horse backed riders having to chase those bringing drugs in.




Heard from news report that most illicit drugs entered the US hidden in cars driving through legal ports of entry.

The rest, I'm guessing, were thru tunnels and known mules.

It doesn't make sense to hand over packs of drugs to some refugee who might not even make it through the desert. 

It's organised crime you know.

That and the US current opiod crisis is not cause by these cokes. They're caused by the legal ones, produced in China under license by this billionaire family who's donating to modern art museums and all other good charities from money their company got from lying to GPs and hospitals about how safe and non-additive it is.

I'm not kidding, you can look it up.

The illegal drug and its users... Not Trump, not Clinton, not Obama give a damn about those. In fact, most of those drugs are used by poor black and brown people... and that's why Clinton privatised prisons and fill them up with poor trash.


----------



## luutzu (18 February 2019)

Sdajii said:


> I notice your cowardly avoidance of all the nonsense points you made being addressed, but anyway...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Maybe I ignore because they're irrelevant? And I have better things to do?

I best not reply to most of what you say 'cause it'll get me pretty upset.

"don't feed the animals"... did you just refer to homeless and poor people as animals? wtf man?

And sure, Trump cares for the country and its people. 

I think that speaks for itself there.


----------



## Sdajii (18 February 2019)

luutzu said:


> Maybe I ignore because they're irrelevant? And I have better things to do?




It's funny that you would call it 'irrelevant' when your misinformation is called out!



> I best not reply to most of what you say 'cause it'll get me pretty upset.




Yes, people who base their beliefs on dogma and emotion rather than logic and evidence are usually upset when forced to face reality. I can see why it would upset you to be confronted with it.



> "don't feed the animals"... did you just refer to homeless and poor people as animals? wtf man?




No, I didn't. Do you not understand what an analogy is or are you being deliberately disingenuous? Once again, you find a stupid excuse to avoid facing how incredibly wrong and destructive your ideas are, and you do so by employing one of your usual strategies (a strawman in this case, once of your favourites).


----------



## noirua (19 February 2019)

Few people are 100% narcissists but beware a person who fits or nearly fits every box: https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/ss/slideshow-mental-narcissism?ecd=wnl_spr_021519_REMAIL&ctr=wnl-spr-021519-REMAIL_nsl-LeadModule_cta&mb=rdkRubj8zXFn4Y9Sa6bseuHnVev1imbCexA6bcodQzU=


----------



## noirua (21 February 2019)

WASHINGTON -- President Trump said Wednesday he would impose auto tariffs on the European Union if a trade deal can't be reached between the two sides, as tensions over trade between the traditional allies continue to build.
https://uk.advfn.com/stock-market/s...ump-continues-to-weigh-eu-auto-tariffs-update


----------



## noirua (21 February 2019)




----------



## Tink (12 March 2019)




----------



## noirua (16 March 2019)




----------



## noirua (16 March 2019)

https://twitter.com/BarackObama/status/1106544510555824128


----------



## noirua (26 March 2019)




----------



## noirua (7 April 2019)

The Donald would prefer to attend this event than the silly old boring correspondents dinner:


----------



## basilio (25 April 2019)

*"I have been the most transparent President and administration in Amercian History"*
Yep.  Everyone can see right through you.


----------



## noirua (11 May 2019)

Fly on the wall: Donald:" that's worked out very well, worked out extremely good, very well indeed. I was going to implement those 25% tariffs anyway. Good to get the Chinese men over here so it appears we negotiated fairly and they would just not move. Make sure we continue talks in China to cement that idea, that we are the one's who want to fairly negotiate with these unbending Chinamen.
Donald's Secretary: "and we will let Congress spend all their time chasing your tax returns. Then we'll release them much later and, surprise surprise, all in order."
Donald: "don't laugh"


----------



## noirua (11 May 2019)




----------



## noirua (15 May 2019)




----------



## noirua (9 June 2019)

https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2019/06/...r-trump-claim-that-the-moon-is-a-part-of-mar/


----------



## explod (9 June 2019)

As I have said on here a number of times, Trump is a great salesman.

"The US president, Donald Trump, has boasted about having “automatic chemistry” with the Queen during his state visit to the UK.

Trump, during an interview with Fox News, said people had noticed how well he and the Queen had connected.

He said: “The meeting with the Queen was incredible. I think I can say I really got to know her because I sat with her many times and we had automatic chemistry, you will understand that feeling. It’s a good feeling. But she’s a spectacular woman.”

When asked by the broadcaster’s Laura Ingraham if he fist-bumped the Queen, Trump said: “I did not, but I had a great relationship, we had a really great time.

“There are those that say they have never seen the Queen have a better time, a more animated time. We had a period we were talking solid straight, I didn’t even know who the other people at the table were, never spoke to them. We just had a great time together.”

Trump, when asked if he would keep the conversation going, added: “Yes I am, she is a spectacular woman, an incredible woman.”

The controversial billionaire-turned-politician was feted with a ceremonial welcome and a grand state banquet at Buckingham Palace during his stay in London this week and sat next to the Queen at the D-day commemorations in Portsmouth on Wednesday."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...e-had-never-seen-the-queen-have-a-better-time


----------



## kahuna1 (9 June 2019)

explod said:


> about having “automatic chemistry” with the Queen




Yes he grabbed her P ? 

Hilarious sad little man ... Mexico trade deal .... nothing beyond measures ALREADY announced prior to his blackmail. NOT a thing new.

Market of course will rally ....  because even the USA Fed despite 3.6% unemployment supposedly, is thinking of lowering rates.

Meanwhile, LA county had 60,000 homeless and DOUBLE that living out of a car. America is so great it now has 1.8 million without a home and 3.5 million living in the back of a car, 40% cannot even muster $500- for an emergency and this is via the USA fed survey and as for a $1,000 emergency the number who cant afford that is 64%.

I thanks the stars for where we live.


----------



## noirua (24 July 2019)

The Donald: How dare they, "It's time for me to upgrade myself".  Either that or bomb the nuclear facilities in Iran and knock out all their ports.


----------



## noirua (30 July 2019)




----------



## basilio (5 August 2019)

A couple of right wing nationalists have killed scores of people in the past two days.
The President made a (repeated) joke of shooting immigrants at a rally a few months. The  audience roared with approval.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ng-migrants-video-rally-el-paso-a9038961.html


----------



## kahuna1 (5 August 2019)

Bliss .... twice as much !!


----------



## basilio (6 August 2019)

What a real President could have said about the latest shootings.

 *Barack Obama*‏Verified account @*BarackObama*


----------



## basilio (7 August 2019)

The El Paso shootings were a terrible thing. That young guy  posting  his Manifesto on the Great Replacement as he was shooting up every quasi non American he could find. And naturally the media and Donald Trump treated it as another terrible thing ...

But if the shooter happened to be a Muslim ??? We know what would have happened ..

* If the El Paso shooter had been Muslim ... *
Moustafa Bayoumi
Can you imagine what Trump and the media would have said if the shooter had been a Muslim instead of a white male? I can

 @BayoumiMoustafa 
Tue 6 Aug 2019 10.08 EDT   Last modified on Tue 6 Aug 2019 11.02 EDT

If the El Paso shooter had been a Muslim, the entire Muslim American community would be blamed for the actions of this one person.

If the El Paso shooter had been a Muslim, the president would be lobbing accusations such as “Islam hates us” in the direction of Muslims and not lecturing the public about video games.

If the El Paso shooter had been a Muslim, we would have a Muslim ban on immigration to this country. More precisely, we would have an _expanded_ Muslim ban on immigration to this country.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/06/if-the-el-paso-shooter-had-been-muslim-


----------



## noirua (8 October 2019)




----------



## noirua (16 October 2019)

https://youtu.be/l1pjvpvfJjM
https://youtu.be/v5F9a5dc-R0





https://youtu.be/v5F9a5dc-R0


----------



## noirua (24 October 2019)




----------



## noirua (24 October 2019)




----------



## noirua (22 November 2019)

*Ukraine widens probe against Burisma founder to embezzlement of state funds*
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-to-embezzlement-of-state-funds-idUSKBN1XU2N7

Trump wants Ukraine to launch an investigation into former Vice President Joe Biden and his son Hunter, who was a board member at Burisma from 2014-2019.

-----


----------



## noirua (23 November 2019)




----------



## noirua (23 November 2019)

America's #1 cable morning news show
Http://twitter.com/foxandfriends
https://www.foxnews.com/shows/fox-and-friends


----------



## noirua (25 November 2019)




----------



## noirua (25 November 2019)




----------



## noirua (8 December 2019)

*Trump calls for review of water efficiency standards, saying people flush the toilet '10 times, 15 times' *
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/poli...-10-times-15-times/ar-BBXSWnu?ocid=spartandhp

Quite right Donald - a flush a day saved is times billions world wide every day. Spot on.


----------



## noirua (8 December 2019)




----------



## noirua (3 January 2020)




----------



## noirua (26 January 2020)

From little Michael to fat Donald:


----------



## noirua (26 January 2020)

One of the key problems today is that politics is such a disgrace, good people don't go into government.
Donald Trump


----------



## noirua (26 January 2020)

I like thinking big. If you're going to be thinking anything, you might as well think big.
Donald Trump


----------



## noirua (27 January 2020)

noirua said:


> From little Michael to fat Donald:




No apologies The Donald, read this buddy: 
In February 2019, after a new examination, White House physician Sean Conley said *Trump* was in "very good *health* overall", although he was clinically obese. His 2019 coronary CT calcium scan score indicates he suffers from coronary artery disease, which is common for white men at his age.


----------



## noirua (18 February 2020)




----------



## noirua (18 February 2020)

Mayor Michael Bloomberg pops in to see The Donald:


----------



## noirua (1 March 2020)

The Donald's message to Mike Bloomberg, "I hope you get the Democratic nomination as you are just as flawed as I am.  Also, you are the fittest among the old-timers".
Mike B, "Yep, and I'm not as fat as you. Short in stature maybe but many more billions of dollars than you have bud".


----------



## noirua (14 March 2020)

The Donald in the mirror, "I'm doing ever so, everso well! The fall in the DOW in recent news was fake, YES!, fake. You gotta believe that".


----------



## noirua (4 April 2020)

The USA has been buying Saudi oil at a knockdown price and probably has orders and reserves building up. Probably the Saudies repaying Trump for his defence position against Iran. Iran now close to being a busted flush.

Expect Saudi Arabia to cut production with Russia and without any formal announcement.
Both need the oil price back up and Trump will have done a great deal to tell Americans about as the election gets closer.


----------



## basilio (5 April 2020)

This news should prompt some special tweets from Don.

*China to facilitate donation of 1,000 ventilators to New York*
New York governor Andrew Cuomo said the Chinese government would facilitate a donation of 1,000 ventilators to arrive into JFK airport on Saturday. Cuomo said: ‘This is a big deal and it’s going to make a significant difference for us. We’re not at the apex so we’re still in the stage where we have the luxury – if you will – of gathering as much as we can.’

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-china-ventilators-new-york-coronavirus-video


----------



## basilio (5 April 2020)

Yep The Don did respond to the Chinese donation of 1000 ventilators to New York.

_On Saturday, Trump tried to claim credit for the 1,000 ventilators sent to New York by China and said, “two very good friends of mine brought him those ventilator_

*Made the comments in  his Saturday Press conferance*
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...w-york-trump-touts-unproven-cure-malaria-drug


----------



## hja (5 April 2020)

I wonder how long 1000 ventilators will last before the auction style bidding will start again between the different states, over the same equipment. Maybe it will have no bearing.

I remember hearing or reading that some of the richer states (like California) were outbidding their poorer neighbours by $10k or $15k for ventilators, pushing the price from $25000 to $40000 in some cases!

And in countries like Italy, many hospitals were being duped by Chinese "merchants" online, selling them overpriced equipment that the poor Italians never received!


----------



## Knobby22 (5 April 2020)

Also piracy, USA basically stealing equipment bound for Europe  by taking them half way enroute by corrupting the couriers.  Germany in particular is particularly upset.


----------



## basilio (27 April 2020)

Donald Trump being sarcastic again on Twitter. 

“When will all of the “reporters” who have received Noble [sic] Prizes for their work on Russia, Russia, Russia, only to have been proven totally wrong (and, in fact, it was the other side who committed the crimes), be turning back their cherished “Nobles” so that they can be given ....to the REAL REPORTERS & JOURNALISTS who got it right. I can give the Committee a very comprehensive list. When will the Noble Committee DEMAND the Prizes back, especially since they were gotten under fraud,” wrote the president.

_Donald Trump
_
Commentary.

As is often the case, *it’s unclear who the president is talking about*. The Nobel Prizes were awarded for Physics, Chemistry, Medicine, Literature, Peace and Economics in 2019. The 2019 prize for literature went to Austria’s Peter Handke “for an influential work that with linguistic ingenuity has explored the periphery and the specificity of human experience.” It is unclear what views Handke holds on disinfectant.

Trump may *well have meant to criticize the Pulitzer Prizes for journalism*. Several winners in 2019 have investigated Trump’s regime.


----------



## Logique (27 April 2020)

_Biden: 'I Am The Only Candidate Who Can Beat Ronald Reagan'_
March 2nd, 2020 - Babylon Bee: https://babylonbee.com/news/biden-i-am-the-only-candidate-who-can-beat-ronald-reagan
_.."I am the only candidate who can unite the party to defeat Reagan," he said to scattered applause...Aides scrambled to turn off Biden's mic but he beat them away with his walker.."_


----------



## Knobby22 (27 April 2020)

Logique said:


> View attachment 102998
> 
> _Biden: 'I Am The Only Candidate Who Can Beat Ronald Reagan'_
> March 2nd, 2020 - Babylon Bee: https://babylonbee.com/news/biden-i-am-the-only-candidate-who-can-beat-ronald-reagan
> _.."I am the only candidate who can unite the party to defeat Reagan," he said to scattered applause...Aides scrambled to turn off Biden's mic but he beat them away with his walker.."_



Gotta create fake lines to combat Trumps real lines.


----------



## moXJO (27 April 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Gotta create fake lines to combat Trumps real lines.



Bidens got enough real problems:
#theforgetfulrapist 

Remember the lunacy around Kavanaugh. Surely Biden is going to get dropped.


----------



## Knobby22 (27 April 2020)

He needs to hire Trumps doctor:

"His physical strength and stamina are extraordinary,” read the letter, which Bornstein had initially said he wrote himself. “If elected, Mr. Trump, I can state unequivocally, will be the healthiest individual ever elected to the presidency."

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/385765-trumps-ex-doctor-says-trump-dictated-letter-claiming-he-would-be


----------



## noirua (10 May 2020)

*President Donald Trump Tweetstorm – The Saturday Edition*
*May 9, 2020 9:40am*
*https://deadline.com/2020/05/president-donald-trump-tweetstorm-the-saturday-edition-72-1202930579/*

*Trump praises ABC reporter's book, says it's 'better' towards him than he would have expected
https://www.foxnews.com/media/trump-praises-jonathan-karl-book*


----------



## basilio (15 May 2020)

Sarah Cooper is a comedian who has  a great line in acting out some of Trumps most memorable interviews or tweets.
Basically you hear his unedited words coming from her mouth.
They have been shared millions of times for the same reason.

_ “Coming out of my mouth, you realize how much more stupid it is – I’m not sure whether that’s a good thing or a bad thing!” she says. But Cooper thinks there is something else going on here: her videos reassure people that what comes out of the president’s mouth really is as crazy as it sounds.

https://twitter.com/sarahcpr?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1253474772702429189&ref_url=https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/14/trump-lip-sync-video-memes-sarah-cooper-tiktoks-interview_
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...nc-video-memes-sarah-cooper-tiktoks-interview
_ 
_


----------



## basilio (30 July 2020)

Sarah Cooper did an interview with The Project. Obviously it was about her skill at acting out Trumps range of responses to all topics.

What is very interesting in the interview is Sarahs capacity to understand Trumps thinking processes as he basically just makes up stuff.

Well worth checking out IMV.


----------



## basilio (30 July 2020)

More on Sarah Cooper and underlining the BS that passes for Trump talk.


----------



## noirua (9 August 2020)

https://twitter.com/POTUS/photo




Trump Authorizes Extending Special Unemployment Benefit at $400 a Week
09 August 2020 - 01:46AM BST
https://uk.advfn.com/stock-market/s...-authorizes-extending-special-unemployment-be
https://twitter.com/potus?lang=en


----------



## basilio (14 August 2020)

In case you missed The Don's Fox business  interview .

*The 42 most shocking lines from Donald Trump's Fox Business interview*

President Donald Trump was up bright and early Thursday morning -- calling in to Maria Bartiromo's show on the Fox Business Network to riff on everything from Kamala Harris to Bill Barr to cows. (Yes, cows.)
I went through the transcript of the interview and pulled out the lines you need to see.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/13/politics/donald-trump-maria-bartiromo-coronavirus/index.html


----------



## satanoperca (14 August 2020)

basilio said:


> In case you missed The Don's Fox business  interview .
> 
> *The 42 most shocking lines from Donald Trump's Fox Business interview*
> 
> ...




Those quotes by the man, are so funny, they are scary. I would prefer that a drunk or drug addict was in control of the whitehouse than a man that thinks he is sane.

It is scary, that we want democracy and Donald Trump is what we get.


----------



## macca (14 August 2020)

Yes BUT, he did not just walk into the job, he was elected by the American people.

I find the obsession with Trump here on ASF rather odd,  not one of my circle of friends ever mentions anything about him.


----------



## basilio (14 August 2020)

macca said:


> I find the obsession with Trump here on ASF rather odd, *not one of my circle of friends ever mentions anything about him*.




I can understand you POV and really I don't see anything unusual about your situation Macca.

I  believe you see Donald Trump as basically an OK guy who is doing a fair job as Prez and doing nothing untoward. Now those in your circle of friends/ acquaintances who know your POV and  also share it clearly won't need to say any more about the dude.

Those friends/acquaintances who also know your POV  but take a completely opposite  perspective will also clearly not want to say anything about him to you.

All makes sense Macca.


----------



## macca (14 August 2020)

In my group of friends we still agree or disagree with each other when in each others company, it is true that many people only disagree when anonymous and online but we are happy to agree to disagree.

As I live in Australia I don't vote or live in USA so there is not much I can do about who is President. Whether or not he or any other President of the USA does a good job is way beyond my control

As I said before, no one is interested in the USA as a point of discussion

I believe it is quite unhealthy to go looking for problems and I think we have more than enough here at home without borrowing some from the USA.


----------



## Smurf1976 (15 August 2020)

macca said:


> I find the obsession with Trump here on ASF rather odd, not one of my circle of friends ever mentions anything about him.




I see him as no different to a moving average. Just another indicator. Another tool in the box which at times might be of use.

As with any indicator, it needs interpreting you don't take it literally and assume it's 100% accurate. 

As for my friends, well there's two who would mention him yes. One takes him as comedy and nothing more and the other is keeping a watch on him for purely financial reasons as am I.


----------



## basilio (18 August 2020)

Why should we be interested in how Donald Trump governs the US ?
How does he affect Australia and the rest of the world ?

In no particular order

1) He has undermined the international co operation with the EU by threatening to pull out of NATO
2) On the same point he has attacked traditional allies  like France, Germany, Canada while praising Russia, Poland and other strongly authoritarian administrations.
3) He has attacked the United Nations and undermined its capacity to act as a world bodyu
4) He has pulled out of international CC action and run 100% on undermining US action
5) He has created tensions in Asia with repeated attacks on China. The deterioration of relations with China has already affected Australia.

6*) He has destroyed the US standing in the rest of the world. The US is now regarded as a dangerous power interested only in it's theoretical best interest and headed by a person  who can't even asertain hat is in the US interest - only his own interest.*


----------



## moXJO (18 August 2020)

basilio said:


> Why should we be interested in how Donald Trump governs the US ?
> How does he affect Australia and the rest of the world ?
> 
> In no particular order
> ...



Umm no. He actually told them all to start pulling their weight. They were using the US as protection while reducing their own military budgets to low levels.
He actually made the right call.


----------



## noirua (19 August 2020)

Robert Trump passed away due to brain bleeds from a recent fall.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12428152/robert-trump-death-age-donald-trump-funeral-new-york/


----------



## noirua (13 September 2020)

*Biden is struggling to win Miami Latinos, new poll finds. Will it cost him Florida?*
8 September


			https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article245495835.html
		


Four years after getting trounced in Miami-Dade County by Hillary Clinton, President Donald Trump has increased his odds of victory in his must-win home state on Nov. 3 by improving his standing in Florida’s most populous county, according to a poll by Bendixen & Amandi International and the Miami Herald.


----------



## noirua (13 September 2020)

__





						Twitter Publish
					






					publish.twitter.com


----------



## noirua (13 September 2020)

Facing uproar over numbers showing President Donald Trump is making headway with Florida Latino voters, the Joe Biden campaign said it has been polling and targeting Hispanics more than any previous presidential campaigns in its race to contain Republican gains.
September 11








						Trump sees a boost with Latino voters. What is Biden doing about it?
					

Biden's top Latino pollster says they've significantly increased polling and specific voter outreach—the way campaigns have traditionally done with white voters.




					www.nbcnews.com


----------



## noirua (13 September 2020)




----------



## Knobby22 (13 September 2020)

noirua said:


>




Its amazing how much TV the President watches.


----------



## noirua (25 September 2020)




----------



## noirua (2 October 2020)




----------



## Telamelo (4 October 2020)

I've got a sneaky suspicion that Trump is faking this covid-19 situation to suit his political means (in avoiding Biden altogether etc.).. then in a couple of week's time will appear in public being boastful saying thing's like he's the man who beat covid-19, never ever been in better health, let's continue to make America great again etc. to win the 'big sympathy' vote etc. After all, Trump keeps going on about "fake news!" doesn't he...

All in my own humble opinion of course as just don't believe/trust media reports anymore these day's especially around an election campaign.


----------



## bellenuit (4 October 2020)

Telamelo said:


> I've got a sneaky suspicion that Trump is faking this covid-19 situation to suit his political means (in avoiding Biden altogether etc.).. then in a couple of week's time will appear in public being boastful saying thing's like he's the man who beat covid-19, never ever been in better health, let's continue to make America great again etc. to win the 'big sympathy' vote etc. After all, Trump keeps going on about "fake news!" doesn't he...
> 
> All in my own humble opinion of course as just don't believe/trust media reports anymore these day's especially around an election campaign.




I think very unlikely now, with so many others that were at that garden party also getting the virus. Chris Christy is the latest to report a positive test (although I don't know if he was at that party).


----------



## noirua (8 October 2020)




----------



## noirua (8 October 2020)




----------



## basilio (10 October 2020)




----------



## noirua (10 October 2020)

__





						Trump news – live: President delivers speech to as many as 2,000 people on White House lawn and claims it is 'peaceful protest'
					





					www.msn.com
				




*.@realDonaldTrump: I was honored to receive the first ever Presidential Endorsement from the Florida Police Chiefs Association. Thank you, I will NEVER let you down
*


----------



## noirua (11 October 2020)

Who is the silliest, Donald Trump or the Dalai Lama?


----------



## noirua (21 October 2020)

*Tom Del Beccaro: A Trump 'surprise' victory is in the offing -- here are the 10 tea leaves pointing to it*








						Tom Del Beccaro: A Trump 'surprise' victory is in the offing -- here are the 10 tea leaves pointing to it
					

As November 3 approaches, many prognosticators are trying to convince Americans that Joe Biden is a lock to win the presidency.




					www.foxnews.com
				




<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">GREAT news! New government of Sudan, which is making great progress, agreed to pay $335 MILLION to U.S. terror victims and families. Once deposited, I will lift Sudan from the State Sponsors of Terrorism list. At long last, JUSTICE for the American people and BIG step for Sudan!</p>&mdash; Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="">October 19, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


----------



## satanoperca (21 October 2020)

Hope he is going to give the Vietnamese and the Iraq's citizens who lost their lives some of this.

This is not an achievement, it was simple blackmail, how low can this man go.


----------



## moXJO (21 October 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Hope he is going to give the Vietnamese and the Iraq's citizens who lost their lives some of this.
> 
> This is not an achievement, it was simple blackmail, how low can this man go.



Middle East and Africa is restructuring. It is a huge deal. Although I'm unsure if the end result will be good or bad.
But definitely another huge factor that comes into play. for world affairs. Possibly the start of a new golden era (or horror era) for the Middle East. No doubt with some big losers as well. Africa is being grabbed by China. US is hedging in.


----------



## satanoperca (21 October 2020)

moXJO said:


> Middle East and Africa is restructuring. It is a huge deal. Although I'm unsure if the end result will be good or bad.
> But definitely another huge factor that comes into play. for world affairs. Possibly the start of a new golden era (or horror era) for the Middle East. No doubt with some big losers as well. Africa is being grabbed by China. US is hedging in.



Sounds like nothing has changed, those geo areas are always undergoing change. Don't think Chump man has helped.


----------



## moXJO (21 October 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Sounds like nothing has changed, those geo areas are always undergoing change. Don't think Chump man has helped.



Middle East will look a lot different over the next few years. Africa is in for huge change. Trump was smart enough to move out of the way.


----------



## Knobby22 (21 October 2020)

moXJO said:


> Middle East will look a lot different over the next few years. Africa is in for huge change. Trump was smart enough to move out of the way.



Still involved with Iran, Israel and the Saudis though.


----------



## moXJO (21 October 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Still involved with Iran, Israel and the Saudis though.



I think Saudis are the actual architects of the whole thing. Iran is currently in the way so expect an overthrow. And Israel is Israel.


----------



## noirua (1 November 2020)




----------



## noirua (1 November 2020)

*Trump holds a 'Make America Great Again Victory Rally' in Butler, Pennsylvania*


----------



## noirua (3 November 2020)




----------



## noirua (3 November 2020)




----------



## noirua (4 November 2020)

__





						Betting market flips back towards Biden as vote counting continues
					





					www.msn.com


----------



## noirua (4 November 2020)

__





						CNN International - Breaking News, US News, World News and Video
					

Find the latest breaking news and information on the top stories, weather, business, entertainment, politics, and more. For in-depth coverage, CNN provides special reports, video, audio, photo galleries, and interactive guides.




					edition.cnn.com


----------



## bellenuit (8 November 2020)

The incompetence never stops...









						Trump campaign appears to mistakenly book car park outside landscaping firm ‘Four Seasons’ for press conference
					

Donald Trump’s lawyers have held a press conference outside the car park of a local landscaping business called ‘Four Seasons’. It raised questions as to whether the campaign had actually meant to book the Four Seasons hotel instead.




					www.sbs.com.au
				




Apparently it was right next to a dildo shop.


----------



## noirua (14 November 2020)

Trumps Hair turns grey from yellow.


----------



## bellenuit (14 November 2020)

noirua said:


> View attachment 114672
> 
> 
> 
> ...




He is aging _dis_gracefully


----------



## noirua (21 November 2020)




----------



## noirua (23 November 2020)

A kind of fix here between the President of the United States and the Republican party.  They will have seen that Nancy Pelosi has a reduced majority in The House of Representatives and the Republicans just need to hold their majority in The Senate by retaining the two seats in Georgia next January 5.  Thus the Republicans will have cobbled together a defense against the Democrats as they attempt to pass all their new bills early on in the Biden/Harris Presidency.
Meanwhile the Republicans need to support President Trump in these legal battles to play for time as pressure grows on the President.  The President has clawed together the idea of a new TV station and both want to see a fix with Fox TV that have drawn in billions of dollars due to President Trump.  All three need each other here and must hold everything together.  Donald Trump, when no longer President, needs to position himself for legal battles to come.  Also needs very many hundreds of millions of dollars to payoff his accusers and shut them up so under the counter fixes will need to be done.


----------



## noirua (23 November 2020)

List of people granted executive clemency by Donald Trump - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				



In the 21st century, Clinton's pardons of 140 people on his last day in office, January 20, 2001, including billionaire fugitive Marc Rich and his own brother, Roger Clinton, were heavily criticized. President Donald Trump issued his first pardon to former Arizona sheriff Joe Arpaio on August 25, 2017. Arpaio had been convicted of criminal contempt in federal court. Trump's pardon was met with widespread criticism from political opponents, and was relatively unusual because it was issued early in Trump's presidency.[31]









						List of people pardoned or granted clemency by the president of the United States - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




President Obama has granted clemency to far more people than President Trump: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...t=Of the acts of clemency,of the war on drugs.


----------



## Knobby22 (23 November 2020)

Trump's pardoning is a long way from finished. 

Rudy down,  are on tenderhooks doing his bidding to get his pardons. 
I would be nervous if I was them. Trump can be capricious.


----------



## basilio (28 November 2020)

Saying goodbye is so hard. A song for Trump. 50 Ways to leave the White House


----------



## basilio (29 November 2020)

A big Trump supporter donated $2.5million to fight election fraud.  But they never came up with evidence of  fraud or * even took the case to Court.*
However the group called "True the Vote" still kept the money.

How to shake down Trump supporters by calling  election fraud and then being a total fraud yourself..








						Trump supporter who gave $2.5m to fight election fraud wants money back
					

Businessman Fredric Eshelman sues pro-Trump ‘election ethics’ group citing ‘disappointing results’ of effort to expose cheating




					www.theguardian.com
				




Another report on this story. Some new details as well








						A donor who gave $2.5 million to a pro-Trump group looking for election fraud wants his money back after disappointing results
					

Fred Eshelman is suing True the Vote Inc., with the lawsuit saying he was given "platitudes and empty promises" instead of results.




					www.businessinsider.com.au


----------



## noirua (30 November 2020)

27 November 2020


----------



## satanoperca (2 December 2020)

Chump man is far smarter than what I thought.

Step 1, sow the seeds that the election was rigged.
Step 2, if loose election go to step 3
Step 3, Create even more doubt that the election was fraudulent even if you have no evidence, just keep saying it
Step 4, Ask for donations to fund the fight against the fraud, but keep 75% of the money yourself
Step 5, Raise over $300M and nick off.

Very clever


----------



## dutchie (2 December 2020)

Not many Trump tweets commented on recently but plenty of DTS.


----------



## satanoperca (2 December 2020)

dutchie said:


> DTS



So it means nothing that he has amassed $200m+ based on fraud, I know which swamp needs draining.


----------



## Knobby22 (3 December 2020)

Typical. 





__





						Over $3.65 Million in PPP Loans Given to Businesses With Ties to Trump Organization, Kushner Properties
					





					www.msn.com


----------



## basilio (4 December 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Typical.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I thought this was downright  criminally illegal ? But I  suppose that principle has becoming meaningless in the last 4 years..


----------



## basilio (4 December 2020)

The total and utter insanity of the legal efforts to undermine the election results is beyond farce.
Just check out the latest witness who is attempting convince Judges that the rolls are corrupt.

And then consider the lawyers who would wheel out such insane stupidity.  (Next witness  your honour will be Donald Trump..)

But  can 70 million fervent Trump followers  be wrong ?









						Trump team’s discredited fraud witness compared to SNL character
					

Twitter users compared Melissa Carone to an SNL character after she made bizarre allegations of fraud before the Michigan house




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## satanoperca (4 December 2020)

basilio said:


> But  can 70 million fervent Trump followers  be wrong ?




*YES, just like those that are being really quiet on this site, who thought Chump was a man*


----------



## basilio (7 December 2020)




----------



## sptrawler (7 December 2020)

satanoperca said:


> *YES, just like those that are being really quiet on this site, who thought Chump was a man*




Actually I thought most on here were being quiet, in response to @Joe Blow request.


----------



## moXJO (7 December 2020)

I can start pulling it apart if you like


----------



## basilio (7 December 2020)

moXJO said:


> I can start pulling it apart if you like




You could always offer your thoughts on this.
And while your at it check out the comments


----------



## basilio (7 December 2020)

Do we think that no one is taking Trump seriously  when he still insists he has won the election?
What do the people who follow this sort of process believe ?




			https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC3jJHXqrDHgllttzfVafbA


----------



## wayneL (7 December 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Actually I thought most on here were being quiet, in response to @Joe Blow request.





sptrawler said:


> Actually I thought most on here were being quiet, in response to @Joe Blow request.



There's that.

Then there's the realisation it's an exercise in futility. Nobody seems to have changed anyone's mind here.

Attempts at genuine debate quickly degenerate to a troll-fest (with a mea culpa attached).


----------



## satanoperca (7 December 2020)

There is so far, given more than 30+ court cases no EVIDENCE of systematic FRAUD.

SHOW ME THE MONEY/ Sorry SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE.

That is all the courts are asking for, rule of law still prevails, regardless if your a left, right, centre or just a d----khead.


----------



## noirua (9 December 2020)

Wrestler’s grandchildren steal the show at White House ceremony - Pasadena Today News 

The 72-year-old coach from *Iowa*, who won gold at the 1972 Summer Olympics, was presented with the Presidential Medal of Freedom at a ceremony held in the White House on Monday afternoon.


----------



## PZ99 (9 December 2020)

wayneL said:


> Then there's the realisation it's an exercise in futility. Nobody seems to have changed anyone's mind here.



That's a good thing right ? Independent thinking and all that


----------



## wayneL (9 December 2020)

PZ99 said:


> That's a good thing right ? Independent thinking and all that



That depends on whether it's independent thought or programming 😎


----------



## PZ99 (9 December 2020)

If it's programming then one obvious question has to be how the Latest tweets by The Donald affects ones' programme updates and what *viruses* they carry


----------



## wayneL (9 December 2020)

PZ99 said:


> If it's programming then one obvious question has to be how the Latest tweets by The Donald affects ones' programme updates and what *viruses* they carry



Oh I forgot. Only The hive minded left are capable of critical and independent thinking in exactly the way the left wants you to... Or get cancelled.

Thank you for reminding me


----------



## PZ99 (9 December 2020)

wayneL said:


> Oh I forgot. Only The hive minded left are capable of critical and independent thinking in exactly the way the left wants you to... Or get cancelled.
> 
> Thank you for reminding me



Nup - didn't say any of that. 

But that predictable reaction was an interesting test case of independent thinking vs programming


----------



## dutchie (10 December 2020)

Where’s the Hitler?








						Where’s the Hitler?
					

All right, that’s it. I’ve run out of patience. No more excuses. Where’s the Hitler? Yes, you heard me. I’m talking to you. You respectable journalists and political pundits…




					consentfactory.org
				




This is not a Trump tweet.
This could be interesting reading, for all those DTS sufferers, or not.


----------



## satanoperca (10 December 2020)

Covid deaths in the USA 289,000. Go Chump for gold, should just disappear soon.


----------



## wayneL (10 December 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Covid deaths in the USA 289,000. Go Chump for gold, should just disappear soon.




350,000,000 people, 50 states in a federation, all of which have a different policy regarding COVID, none of which seem to display any sort of correlation between policy and death rate. (Pretty much how it is internationally as well)

... And the TDS sufferers all seem to want to make it one man's fault. do you people understand how stupid you look when you come up with this crap?


----------



## satanoperca (10 December 2020)

Yes Chump, as your leader said, it will just disappear. No syndrome here. Just reiterating what your great leader has said, try a bleach with your next beer.

Keep believing. 300,000 dead people are still dead people, leadership is still leadership. Chump man has shown none of it.


----------



## wayneL (10 December 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Yes Chump, as your leader said, it will just disappear. No syndrome here. Just reiterating what your great leader has said, try a bleach with your next beer.
> 
> Keep believing. 300,000 dead people are still dead people, leadership is still leadership. Chump man has shown none of it.




That's rubbish, there is a catalogue of actions and inactions that The Donald took, which are easy to judge in retrospect. For instance here was very proactive in shutting down travel from China, to the chorus of criticisms from the dominionocrats, most notably from Pelosi who was advising people to go down to Chinatown in San Francisco and hug people.

That, and similar advice alone just may have been the kernel of the great explosion of cases in the United States.

But of course that doesn't fit the orange man bad narrative now does it?

Just listen to yourself man!


----------



## IFocus (10 December 2020)

Trumps pollicising the wearing of masks would have to be a low point by any measure I would think.

2nd I guess would be the failure of leadership during this current wave, but then 70 million Americans think that's OK, end of a empire!


----------



## wayneL (10 December 2020)

IFocus said:


> Trumps pollicising the wearing of masks would have to be a low point by any measure I would think.
> 
> 2nd I guess would be the failure of leadership during this current wave, but then 70 million Americans think that's OK, end of a empire!




Biden's pollicising (sic) the wearing of masks would have to be a low point by any measure I would think.

2nd I guess would be the failure of leadership during this current wave, but then 70 million Americans think that's OK, end of a empire!

****

*Masks don't work for COVID
*They are also an environmental catastrophe
*In spite of TDS the USA is still a federation of 50 States, each with different approaches. 
*Lockdown, mask-wearing states are doing worse.
*Yes this is the end of empire. Simple question there... Which side is pro USA, and which side is anti USA? Might be some answers for you in that.


----------



## satanoperca (10 December 2020)

wayneL said:


> That's rubbish, there is a catalogue of actions and inactions that The Donald took, which are easy to judge in retrospect. For instance here was very proactive in shutting down travel from China, to the chorus of criticisms from the dominionocrats, most notably from Pelosi who was advising people to go down to Chinatown in San Francisco and hug people.
> 
> That, and similar advice alone just may have been the kernel of the great explosion of cases in the United States.
> 
> ...



Please Wayne, stop believing what you have read. He did not shut down people travelling from China, just Chinese, there is a technical difference.

Let us make it simple, did Chump say this Virus was just going to disappear? YES/NO

Did he ignore his chief and expert advisors as he knew better? YES/NO

You are starting to sound like the man that fell on a carrot.

3000 Deaths a day, hard to defend.


----------



## PZ99 (10 December 2020)

They still can't disagree without using the TDS label can they ?

Looks like the ignore list will just get bigger


----------



## IFocus (10 December 2020)

wayneL said:


> *Masks don't work for COVID





Hmmm I afraid they do not for the wearer but for others around you empirical evidence.

Next time you have surgery...................


----------



## wayneL (11 December 2020)

IFocus said:


> Hmmm I afraid they do not for the wearer but for others around you empirical evidence.
> 
> Next time you have surgery...................



Bacteria Vs Virus

There are situational reasons outside of theatre which also make them ineffective.


----------



## IFocus (11 December 2020)

wayneL said:


> Bacteria Vs Virus
> 
> There are situational reasons outside of theatre which also make them ineffective.





Plenty of argument as to what should be worn as a mask, there simply isn't an argument as to the wearing of masks effect on reducing the transmitting of the a virus. 

Are they 100%, of course not, are they recommended by health experts around the world, absolutely they were an import tool for the Victorians to recover so fast as they did.

Trump and the GOP would have had the same advice but politicizing the issue for the sake of power speaks to their lack of leadership in guiding the general population through a pandemic in stark contrast with our own federal and state governments here in Australia . 

Lets not even think of the moral implications.


The results speak for themselves.


----------



## basilio (12 December 2020)

*Trumps last quasi, totally ridiculous, legal throw of the dice has been dashed 9-0 in the Supreme Court.*

They threw out the Texas lawsuit which, somehow, wanted to persuade the Supreme Court to set aside the results from the 4 swing states and give them to Trump.   126 Republician  Reps supported the suit - even when it meant saying they were personally voted in by a "corrupt" system.

So the question still remains. Will Trump acknowledge he lost the election or will he insist he was cheated with all the consequences that could entail ?









						Supreme court rejects Trump-backed Texas lawsuit aiming to overturn election results
					

Court blocks baseless effort by Republicans to undo Joe Biden’s victory in four states




					www.theguardian.com
				











						Nearly two-thirds of House Republicans join baseless effort to overturn election
					

More than 120 Congress members have formally asked the supreme court to bar four states from casting electoral votes for Biden




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## satanoperca (12 December 2020)

Who wooda thort, come sense might prevail or the rule of law, not some arse called Chump and his believers


----------



## noirua (13 December 2020)

December 11 2020


----------



## Junior (14 December 2020)

3,000 Americans / day are dying.  Trump plays 6 rounds of golf a week, and spends the remainder of his time tweeting about his losing lawsuits.  Excellent leadership.

But he stopped flights from China in February!    OK...and  a) What did that achieve?  b)  What actions were taken from February onwards, to manage the crisis as it evolved?


----------



## wayneL (14 December 2020)

Junior said:


> 3,000 Americans / day are dying.  Trump plays 6 rounds of golf a week, and spends the remainder of his time tweeting about his losing lawsuits.  Excellent leadership.
> 
> But he stopped flights from China in February!    OK...and  a) What did that achieve?  b)  What actions were taken from February onwards, to manage the crisis as it evolved?



I guess he should have personally tracked down each and every virus particle and hit it with a hammer.

Perhaps have Pelosi et al arrested for poohooing him and telling people to go out and hug each other?


----------



## satanoperca (14 December 2020)

Everything is in the detail.
" When he announced the travel restrictions on Jan. 31, the policy prohibits non-U.S. citizens, other than the immediate family of U.S. citizens and permanent residents, who have traveled to China within the last two weeks from entering the U.S. "









						The Facts on Trump's Travel Restrictions - FactCheck.org
					

President Donald Trump has made a number of misleading statements about his decision on Jan. 31 to impose travel restrictions related to the novel coronavirus epidemic.




					www.factcheck.org


----------



## satanoperca (14 December 2020)

wayneL said:


> I guess he should have personally tracked down each and every virus particle and hit it with a hammer.
> 
> Perhaps have Pelosi et al arrested for poohooing him and telling people to go out and hug each other?




A little bit extreme in your response.

So you are still supporting the Chief Chump, who said "this virus will just disappear" "We are turning the corner" "We will have a vaccine out in weeks" - many months ago.

He is going for gold, 300,000 deaths within days.

Chump can even turn that into a positive.









						Trump's False Claims about Pelosi and Chinatown - FactCheck.org
					

President Donald Trump is making false and exaggerated claims about House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's Feb. 24 trip to San Francisco's Chinatown.




					www.factcheck.org


----------



## wayneL (14 December 2020)

satanoperca said:


> A little bit extreme in your response.
> 
> So you are still supporting the Chief Chump, who said "this virus will just disappear" "We are turning the corner" "We will have a vaccine out in weeks" - many months ago.
> 
> ...



I guess we should also blame the Donald for all the deaths in Belgium, Peru, Italy, Spain, Macedonia, Bosnia, UK, Moldova, Slovenia and Argentina, most of which lockdown earlier and a lot harder than the USA, and all the witch have a higher death rate per capita than the USA.

Yep got to be Trump's fault.

In fact, all the other deaths in all the other countries surely must be Trump's fault as well, surely?

I mean, orange man bad, right?

The TDS is absolutely astonishing, you geniuses have no ability to examine or analyse data whatsoever, so long as you can pin something on the Donald, with absolutely asinine assertions with zero relevance to the actual political and medical reality of the situation.


----------



## satanoperca (14 December 2020)

wayneL said:


> I guess we should also blame the Donald for all the deaths in Belgium, Peru, Italy, Spain, Macedonia, Bosnia, UK, Moldova, Slovenia and Argentina, most of which lockdown earlier and a lot harder than the USA, and all the witch have a higher death rate per capita than the USA.
> 
> Yep got to be Trump's fault.
> 
> ...




WOW, you are being hysterical.

No one mentioned the other countries.

Keep diverting, working well, isn't it?

"The TDS is absolutely astonishing, you geniuses have no ability to examine or analyse data whatsoever, so long as you can pin something on the Donald, with absolutely asinine assertions with zero relevance to the actual political and medical reality of the situation."

LOL. Keep the love going.

You do acknowledge he is the president, buck stops with him.


----------



## wayneL (14 December 2020)

satanoperca said:


> WOW, you are being hysterical.
> 
> No one mentioned the other countries.
> 
> ...



It tells me everything about your intellect, that hyperbole goes straight over your head.

Carry on


----------



## PZ99 (14 December 2020)

Pro Trumpers still dropping the hysterical TDS bombing sortie are they ?

I probably should thank them really.... because I'm starting to actually like Trump at the moment - loosing an election is nice enough, but loosing the same election at least once every week is the gift that keeps on giving !


----------



## Junior (14 December 2020)

He acted early with that travel ban, for sure....but he allowed Americans to fly in from China...which meant the policy was next to useless, as it just meant returning Americans were going to import the virus anyway.  What action did Trump take through February and March?  He spent the following weeks and months talking down the virus as nothing to worry about, and he loudly opposed and fought against any and all attempts to take any action to slow the spread.  He was aggressively opposed to any form of lockdown, he was anti mask, and for several months in the middle of this year, he avoided even referencing the pandemic!

Now he's just out playing golf most days and bitching about the election result.  Great leadership.


wayneL said:


> I guess he should have personally tracked down each and every virus particle and hit it with a hammer.
> 
> Perhaps have Pelosi et al arrested for poohooing him and telling people to go out and hug each other?




Turning up to work would be a start.  If you have to go so far back as January to find any kind of response against the Virus, I think that says it all.


----------



## bellenuit (14 December 2020)

Junior said:


> What action did Trump take through February and March?




He inadvertently did the right thing with China, but only partially. To give him the benefit of the doubt, let's say he won one skirmish. But he constantly refers to that victory as if he had one the war, when he is one of the biggest losers.


----------



## Junior (14 December 2020)

bellenuit said:


> He inadvertently did the right thing with China, but only partially. To give him the benefit of the doubt, let's say he won one skirmish. But he constantly refers to that victory as if he had one the war, when he is one of the biggest losers.




Yes, and then he 'banned europe', but gave an exemption to the UK (because he likes Boris??).  He had the right idea, but implementation was way off the mark.


----------



## wayneL (14 December 2020)

I don't think anyone can claim that The Donald had the perfect response, especially when dealing with 50 states for each have their own governors and their own response; I point out once again that the US is a federation like Australia.

Have we not had differing responses and differing results here?

What I would like to hear from you guys is what would have been your perfect response at the time without the benefit of hindsight what do you guys honestly believe you would have done in the same position?

Bearing in mind the whole topic is absolutely rife with political narratives, propaganda, and mercantile ulterior motives?

Nobody bags out the leadership of Belgium, Spain, or Italy, or any of the others.

Just Trump.

bearing in mind the figures I have provided above about per capita deaths, why do you think that is?

Do you think you have been totally manipulated by the media narrative? I posit that is absolutely blindingly obvious to anyone not suffering from TDS.


----------



## satanoperca (14 December 2020)

wayneL said:


> I don't think anyone can claim that The Donald had the perfect response, especially when dealing with 50 states for each have their own governors and their own response; I point out once again that the US is a federation like Australia.
> 
> Have we not had differing responses and differing results here?
> 
> ...



I will answer it simply for you.

"We have turned the corner"
"We will have a vaccine soon"
"The virus will just disappear"
"Bleach might work"

That is not my propaganda or someone elses, but the great Chump man himself.

"Nobody bags out the leadership of Belgium, Spain, or Italy, or any of the others." This is the Chump thread, want to discuss these other countries create a thread.


----------



## Junior (14 December 2020)

wayneL said:


> I don't think anyone can claim that The Donald had the perfect response, especially when dealing with 50 states for each have their own governors and their own response; I point out once again that the US is a federation like Australia.
> 
> Have we not had differing responses and differing results here?
> 
> ...




There has been, and is no perfect response to this pandemic.  The reason so many are critical of Trump versus other leaders is pretty clear in my view:

* He took action very early in the pandemic, as discussed in this thread, with travel bans.  However they were very ineffective, because he still allowed Americans to fly in from all over the globe, without any testing, quarantine, isolation etc.  The virus doesn't care which passport you have.  Other countries closed border, or at least strongly recommended home isolation if you'd traveled in from an affected area.  

* After the first few weeks, he started aggressively and consistently railing against those states who had imposed any form of lockdown or restrictions.  He said the virus would go away.  He said it wasn't dangerous and it was just like the flu.  He said a vaccine was just around the corner.  He said everything will need to re-open asap.  He threatened to punish those states who continued to impose restrictions.  This was all the way back in March....still very early days in the pandemic.  Trump didn't have any alternative plan or proposed set of actions, he just didn't like the economic numbers and falling sharemarket, so he was hoping we could all pretend there was no pandemic.  

He used the crisis to try and demonise states with Democratic leadership, and we've seen what that's led to:

* If you practice social distancing and wear a mask, that's not considered sensible behavior in a pandemic, it's seen as anti-Trump, pro-Democrat behavior.  The pandemic like everything else in the past 4 years was politicised by the President and the country divided 50/50.  It didn't really play out like that elsewhere.  We saw leaders of almost every other country on the planet take the pandemic seriously and at least attempt to take some action to manage it, and take advice from health / infectious disease experts.  I think that's why Trump's response has been such a focus.  He has gone from actively opposing any kind of action to address the pandemic, to then not even mentioning the fact that there is a pandemic (from April through until recently), to now playing golf every day and whinging about his poor election results, whilst 3,000 a day are dying and the crisis is deepening.

It's not leadership, and it's embarrassing for a country which claims to be a world leader.


----------



## moXJO (14 December 2020)

Once again you plebs don't know what you are talking about because you were to lazy to look.
They had guidelines in place:



> WASHINGTON – In order to help prevent the spread of travel-related cases of coronavirus in the United States, today the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Acting Secretary Chad F. Wolf issued a Notice of Arrival Restrictions outlining the process for American citizens, legal permanent residents, and their immediate families who are returning home after recently visiting certain European countries (listed below), China, and Iran.
> 
> Effective for flights taking off at 11:59 PM EDT on Friday, March 13th, Americans reIturning from all restricted countries will now be required to travel through the following 13 airports:
> 
> ...



https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/03/13...lines-new-process-americans-returning-certain
This was from March.



> The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), under statutory authority of the Health and Human Services (HHS) Secretary, has issued federal quarantine orders to all 195 United States citizens who repatriated to the U.S. on January 29, 2020. The quarantine will last 14 days from when the plane left Wuhan, China.  This action is a precautionary and preventive step to maximize the containment of the virus in the interest of the health of the American public.
> 
> This legal order will protect the health of the repatriated citizens, their families, and their communities. These individuals will continue to be housed at the March Air Reserve Base in Riverside, California. Medical staff will continue to monitor the health of each traveler, including temperature checks and observation for respiratory symptoms.  If an individual presents symptoms, medical care will be readily available. Even if a screening test comes back negative from CDC’s laboratory results, it does not conclusively mean an individual is at no risk of developing the disease over the likely 14-day incubation period.
> 
> ...




This was from Jan.
Back when Democrats were calling it a "racist distraction".

Trump followed cdc guidelines. The states fked up severely. NY being a huge culprit. Fed can set guidelines, but states control states.

The US was hamstrung by constitution, states, size of population. You all seem to like to revise history.


----------



## Junior (15 December 2020)

moXJO said:


> Once again you plebs don't know what you are talking about because you were to lazy to look.
> They had guidelines in place:
> 
> 
> ...




Trump accepted CDC advice for the first few weeks of the pandemic.  Then Fauci and all medical advice was ditched sometime in April, from memory.


----------



## basilio (16 December 2020)

Trump is still determined to attack the legitimacy of the Presidential votes in the US election.  (Interesting he has made no mention of Congress or Senate results which showed continued Republican support )


----------



## basilio (17 December 2020)

moXJO said:


> Once again you plebs don't know what you are talking about because you were to lazy to look.
> They had guidelines in place:
> 
> 
> ...




Talk about revisionists..   Somehow you are straining to say that Trump was not responsible for the catastrophe that COVID has become in the US. It was the States. The Dems  in particular. The Constitution, Too many people.  "And it was all Chinas fault anyway". Anything.

*Anything except for the unremitting reality that from Day I Trump downplayed COVID, tried to wish it away repeatedly and never, ever showed the leadership required to get the entire community onboard to tackle the problem as a medical crisis.*

John Howard in his usual forensic way hit the mail on the head. He described every COVID Press Conference Trump held as another political suicide note. In his view Trump destroyed himself and the nation by refusing to show political leadership in effectively confronting this crisis. He noted that in Australia and overseas even when counties were taking a beating on COVID the people respected  and supported politicians who made a genuine  attempt at taking the measures required to bring it under control.

Think Morrison and all Australian politicians Labour or Liberal.









						Trump 'penned political suicide note' at every Covid press conference, former Australian PM says
					

If US president handled coronavirus pandemic ‘half-decently’ he would have won election, John Howard says




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## SirRumpole (17 December 2020)

wayneL said:


> There's that.
> 
> Then there's the realisation it's an exercise in futility. Nobody seems to have changed anyone's mind here.
> 
> Attempts at genuine debate quickly degenerate to a troll-fest (with a mea culpa attached).




People have gone quiet because it's all over, done and dusted, the Electoral College has spoken, all challenges thrown out of court.

Republicans have acknowledged the result, the only one left arguing is DJT and as John Howard once said about himself, he's history.


----------



## moXJO (17 December 2020)

basilio said:


> Talk about revisionists..   Somehow you are straining to say that Trump was not responsible for the catastrophe that COVID has become in the US. It was the States. The Dems  in particular. The Constitution, Too many people.  "And it was all Chinas fault anyway". Anything.
> 
> *Anything except for the unremitting reality that from Day I Trump downplayed COVID, tried to wish it away repeatedly and never, ever showed the leadership required to get the entire community onboard to tackle the problem as a medical crisis.*
> 
> ...



Trump was a part of it. Yours and others denial of history is another matter altogether. We had accusations nothing was done when clearly it was. Trumps leadership through covid was terrible. But to say nothing was in place is ignoring a huge part of what happened.


Noticed you couldn't stay away from the Trump thread for long.


----------



## Junior (17 December 2020)

moXJO said:


> Trump was a part of it. Yours and others denial of history is another matter altogether. We had accusations nothing was done when clearly it was. *Trumps leadership through covid was terrible. *But to say nothing was in place is ignoring a huge part of what happened.
> 
> 
> Noticed you couldn't stay away from the Trump thread for long.




Common ground!

Very little action was taken, when you compare to leaders of other nations around the world.  

Trump reluctantly followed medical advice, to a degree, for the first few weeks of the pandemic.  Then his attention span expired and he downplayed, ignored, and actively railed against taking sensible action.  Yes, it's a fair point to make that the majority of action is indeed up to each individual state.  But when you have 30%-40% + of the population hanging off of every word which comes out of Donald's mouth, it completely undermines any localised attempts to deal with the crisis.

Now we can  see the outcome, it's directly translating into mass death.  COVID19 is the 3rd leading cause of death in the United States, and may well become the Leading cause of death through this winter.  Ahead of Cancer and Heart Disease.  Death which is at least partly preventable.


----------



## moXJO (17 December 2020)

Junior said:


> Common ground!
> 
> Very little action was taken, when you compare to leaders of other nations around the world.
> 
> ...



I'm  sorry but a lot of action was taken at the start. States were supported and aid was rushed out. A few states failed big time at the start, NY comes to mind. 
Funny the states pushed harder for changing mail in voting laws then they did for covid action.

There were a long line of failures here and yes Trump in the last few months has felt like he really dropped the ball. 

However we have multiple factors and one big one is the absolute derangement of opposition and media throughout the whole thing. 
How many of you actually know what measures were put into action?

It worked well here because we had somewhat unity between government, opposition, media.
The yanks were in an election year in which the Democrats were desperate to win.


----------



## satanoperca (17 December 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Excuses, excuses, excuses, keep up the narrative of your god, but they are still excuses.
> 
> Or are 300,000 dead people wrong.
> 
> Or I am wrong and this virus which is killing USA citizens will "Just disappear"





moXJO said:


> The yanks were in an election year in which the Democrats were desperate to win.



You had me before this statement, which is the statement of 2020.

And Chump man wasn't?


----------



## basilio (17 December 2020)

moXJO said:


> Trump was a part of it. Yours and others denial of history is another matter altogether. We had accusations nothing was done when clearly it was. Trumps leadership through covid was terrible. But to say nothing was in place is ignoring a huge part of what happened.
> 
> 
> *Noticed you couldn't stay away from the Trump thread for long.*



Couldn't stand to see the misdirection, misinformation and downright rubbish you sprout uncontested.

Moxjo, your original piece on Trumps efforts at tackling COVID was the original piece of revisionism. I stand by my comments.
You decided  to adjust your view by adding that you thought his leadership  through COVID was terrible. I wonder why you chose not to say that originally ?  You may have then preserved a scintilla of respect for reality.

You ask about the "unremitting" attacks on Trump from the first day in office. You neglect to acknowledge that the reason for these  attacks was simply the breathtaking range of dangerous , criminal and "stoopid" behaviours he indulged in. I considered responding in detail but given few people on ASF want to rehash the nepotism, criminal use of office, abuse of allies, cozying up to dictators, denial of proven sexual adventures ( not to mention assaults )  etcera - whats the point ?

*However I  suggest the ongoing catastrophe of COVID in US is in a league of it's own.* The US had a plan to deal with a pandemic. Obama developed the text book. That was thrown out the window. It went downhill from there with the decisions to repeatedly say "it was just going to go away" . Then, after setting up a COVID panel, Trump decides to go rogue and deliberately undermine the medical advice on reducing infection risk and then finds himself a like minded soul to be chief spruiker of doing nothing.

Meanwhile of course he has already say he takes no responsibility for the disease and that it was all Chinas fault anyway and calls it the China flu.

He attacks the use of masks and social distancing when it has become overwhelming clear that these measures will reduce teh spread of infection. He turns these refusals  into a badges of honour and another stick to beat the "timid, basement dwelling " Dems.

*Meanwhile infections are escalating at a terrifying rate  and are now killing 3000 people a day.* The same casualties the  US suffered in 9/11.  Is this not truly a disaster ?

By now he has refused to hold any Press conferences on COVID and completely dropped the ball.  To quote again "It is what it is"

And lets remember that earlier this year he acknowledged just how dangerous this disease would be in an conversation with Bob Woodward. He knew what he was doing..

I don't like John Howard but I do acknowledge his political skills. Pointing out how profound Trumps political failure on COVID  was and the fact that it was almost certainly the  tipping point in his election loss was  an interesting touch.

The political  suicide note at each COVID Press Conference summed it up exquisitely.


----------



## moXJO (17 December 2020)

basilio said:


> Couldn't stand to see the misdirection, misinformation and downright rubbish you sprout uncontested.
> 
> Moxjo, your original piece on Trumps efforts at tackling COVID was the original piece of revisionism. I stand by my comments.
> You decided  to adjust your view by adding that you thought his leadership  through COVID was terrible. I wonder why you chose not to say that originally ?  You may have then preserved a scintilla of respect for reality.
> ...



Mmm hmmm....
  "Trump is to blaaamme for everything and didn't do anything to help. Its all his fault".
This is typical rubbish from idiots that are too stupid to scratch the surface.

Media hasn't been a source of facts.
They took 30 second soundbytes from what were often 2 hour Trump pressers.
The news business of Trump was: get clicks, get attention - every time Trump says something stupid. Which was a lot. You then get conflict stories, half truths or outright lies from those seeking your attention. Yeah real great in a pandemic.


New York infected the US. Authorities dropped the ball in that state. Not just made up bs like your line of crap. 

Now here's a complete breakdown of how NY fked up. Now I was going to post at the time articles and Cuomos press conferences but this article went above and beyond.
https://www.propublica.org/article/...y-10-times-the-number-of-deaths-as-california

*But a range of health officials and scientists interviewed by ProPublica say creating such timelines misses the central issue: No later than Feb. 28, federal officials warned the country that a deadly pandemic was inevitable. It is from that point forward, they say, that any individual state’s actions should be judged.*

Oh and just so it passes Bas Muster:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/20/andrew-cuomo-new-york-coronavirus-catastrophe

Trump is just as to blame as the: States, media, models and everyone else. Democrats and Republican are so far removed from one another that this is the typical mess you get.

Trump right now would get a zero for the last few months just off media reports. I haven't checked the behind the scenes progress if any. But it obviously looks like he threw in the towel to cdc. 


As for the surge now:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...took-streets-dance-over-bidens-win-heres-why/

Nov 12

I wonder how the chart looked after that date.


----------



## bellenuit (18 December 2020)

moXJO said:


> "Trump is to blaaamme for everything and didn't do anything to help. Its all his fault".




You may find that those who blame Trump for everything are a lot closer to the truth that you assume.

Not only is much of it his fault due to inaction, his administration actually pushed policies that were seen by almost everyone as extremely dangerous.

*We want them infected’: Trump appointee demanded ‘herd immunity’ strategy, emails reveal*

*








						‘We want them infected’: Trump appointee demanded ‘herd immunity’ strategy, emails reveal
					

Then-HHS science adviser Paul Alexander called for millions of Americans to be infected as means of fighting Covid-19.




					www.politico.com
				



*
More on the above and also this:





__





						Chairman Clyburn Releases Memo With New Evidence of Political Interference in Pandemic Response
					

Washington, D.C. (December 16, 2020) — Today, Rep. James E. Clyburn, Chairman of the Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Crisis, sent a memo to Members of the Select Subcommittee citing new documents obtained in the Subcommittee’s investigation of political interference by senior Trump...




					coronavirus.house.gov
				




_Administration Officials Tried to Discredit Scientists Who Provided Truthful Public Information._
_

_

_Dr. Alexander attempted to blame public health officials for the pandemic and tried to discredit scientists such as Dr. Anthony Fauci.  For example, on June 29, 2020, Dr. Alexander baselessly accused scientists of trying to “destroy the nation and people’s lives just to make the President look bad…saving lives is not their aim…”_
_ 
_

_On July 3, 2020, Dr. Alexander complained that Dr. Fauci had warned the public to “expect a dramatic increase in spread.”  Dr. Alexander wrote:  “He just wont stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  He cant keep quiet….and he is not on the same page of the govn….does he think he is the President???”  One week later, President Trump and other White House officials publicly attacked Dr. Fauci._
_ 

On September 14, 2020, the Select Subcommittee launched an investigation into political interference by senior Trump administration officials with the scientific reports and guidance issued by the CDC during the coronavirus crisis. 



On December 10, 2020, Chairman Clyburn wrote to HHS Secretary Azar and CDC Director Redfield seeking immediate compliance with the Select Subcommittee’s investigation after a witness revealed that career CDC officials were directed to destroy evidence of political interference in the CDC’s work, and HHS cancelled four other witness interviews.  Chairman Clyburn requested a transcribed interview with Director Redfield and warned that failure to make a complete production of all remaining responsive documents by December 15, 2020, would force the Select Subcommittee to issue subpoenas to compel production.
_


----------



## moXJO (18 December 2020)

bellenuit said:


> You may find that those who blame Trump for everything are a lot closer to the truth that you assume.
> 
> Not only is much of it his fault due to inaction, his administration actually pushed policies that were seen by almost everyone as extremely dangerous.
> 
> ...




Oh look another Democrat run witch hunt. Surprised Russia isn't in there somewhere.

That was well past initial spread. It was a sht show at that point. Literally a sht show. 

 Trump by the end of it lost the plot and was more motivated by gaining numbers for the election.


----------



## moXJO (18 December 2020)

Despite the above, Trumps operation warp speed was speedily delivered. And in the end Trump may have actually saved the world after his attention and effort to the vaccination program.

If it all works out, will Trump get "world saviour" status?
Now that would be funny


----------



## bellenuit (18 December 2020)

moXJO said:


> Despite the above, Trumps operation warp speed was speedily delivered. And in the end Trump may have actually saved the world after his attention and effort to the vaccination program.
> 
> If it all works out, will Trump get "world saviour" status?
> Now that would be funny




_Operation Warp Speed, the federal effort to rush a vaccine to market, has promised Pfizer $1.95 billion to deliver 100 million doses to the federal government, which will be given to Americans free of charge. But Dr. Jansen sought to distance the company from Operation Warp Speed and presidential politics, noting that the company — unlike the other vaccine front-runners — did not take any federal money to help pay for research and development.

“We were never part of the Warp Speed,” she said on Sunday. “We have never taken any money from the U.S. government, or from anyone.” On Monday, a spokeswoman for Pfizer clarified that the company is part of Operation Warp Speed as a supplier of a potential coronavirus vaccine.









						Pfizer’s Early Data Shows Vaccine Is More Than 90% Effective
					

Pfizer announced positive early results from its coronavirus vaccine trial, cementing the lead in a frenzied global race that has unfolded at record-breaking speed.




					www.nytimes.com
				



_


----------



## Junior (19 December 2020)

moXJO said:


> Despite the above, Trumps operation warp speed was speedily delivered. And in the end Trump may have actually saved the world after his attention and effort to the vaccination program.
> 
> If it all works out, will Trump get "world saviour" status?
> Now that would be funny




Giving trump any credit for a vaccine is extreme “TDS”.  Only his most devout followers would buy such rubbish.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (19 December 2020)

"President" Donald Trump's only utility for me has been to provide endless and alternating  bemusement and amusement over the last four years. 

gg


----------



## moXJO (19 December 2020)

Junior said:


> Giving trump any credit for a vaccine is extreme “TDS”.  Only his most devout followers would buy such rubbish.



Really... because it was actually Biden giving him praise over his roll-out of the vaccine that got me started.



Garpal Gumnut said:


> "President" Donald Trump's only utility for me has been to provide endless and alternating  bemusement and amusement over the last four years.
> 
> gg



For me he truly is the gift that keeps giving.


----------



## Junior (19 December 2020)

Yes, the “gift” that will be evicted from the White House in a few weeks.

The American people have spoken.  Trump has lost by a massive margin, one of a handful of incumbents to be kicked out after just one term.


----------



## moXJO (19 December 2020)

Junior said:


> Yes, the “gift” that will be evicted from the White House in a few weeks.
> 
> The American people have spoken.  Trump has lost by a massive margin, one of a handful of incumbents to be kicked out after just one term.



Still giving even now

Could you imagine if he ran again in 2024. Peoples heads would explode.


----------



## basilio (20 December 2020)

moXJO said:


> Still giving even now
> 
> Could you imagine if he ran again in 2024. Peoples heads would explode.




Look he hasn't given up on being Prez now.  Still  planning on staying in the White House and "proving" his loss was a fraud.








						Trump Weighed Naming Election Conspiracy Theorist as Special Counsel (Published 2020)
					

In a meeting at the White House on Friday, President Trump weighed appointing Sidney Powell, who promoted conspiracy theories about rigged voting machines, to investigate voter fraud.




					www.nytimes.com


----------



## IFocus (20 December 2020)

I am still waiting for the Kraken, any one seen it?


----------



## Junior (21 December 2020)

moXJO said:


> Still giving even now
> 
> Could you imagine if he ran again in 2024. Peoples heads would explode.




Yes, well he might do.  He'll have to come up with a new campaign slogan.  He's already had 4 years to Make America Great, and that didn't play out so well.


----------



## orr (21 December 2020)

IFocus said:


> Kraken, any one seen it?



This 'Kracken' Focus??
I'm delighting in watch'n a few things Crack'n ... 'The Fox and Friends', business attache' Lou Dobbs grovelling televised  mea culpa  debunking his own confected drivel on election fraud ... And to be re-broadcast futher on the Corpse Network.
Hard to think that the Defamatory nature of the origonal broardcast wont see Rupert writing some sorry cheques as well to Smartmatic..Crack in the dam? lets hope.
Not the Kracken of Powell's fevered imagination but the only type that was ever really likely.

There's a bit crow for others to chew for a few down these pg's. Hate to see anyone go hungry.  merry Xmas.


----------



## basilio (21 December 2020)

orr said:


> This 'Kracken' Focus??
> I'm delighting in watch'n a few things Crack'n ... 'The Fox and Friends', business attache' Lou Dobbs grovelling televised  mea culpa  debunking his own confected drivel on election fraud ... And to be re-broadcast futher on the Corpse Network.
> Hard to think that the Defamatory nature of the origonal broardcast wont see Rupert writing some sorry cheques as well to Smartmatic..Crack in the dam? lets hope.
> Not the Kracken of Powell's fevered imagination but the only type that was ever really likely.
> ...




I noticed that Smartmatic insisted that Lou Dobbs and co. make repeated public refutations  of electoral fraud with the same spread and intensity as they made their original slanderous accusations.

Be great to see the current Liar in Chief forced to make similar ongoing statements with his repeated electoral lies.  In fact an elegant solution for all these characters is being forced to publicly explain why they were  so deliberately slanderous  on the polls until multiple public opinion polls show a marked change in public opinion.  Currently 70% of Republican voters believe  Trump lost throw  electoral fraud becasue of these repeated lies.


_Connolly wrote that the network “would have easily discovered the falsity of statements and implications being made about Smartmatic by performing even a modicum of investigation.”

Smartmatic demanded a retraction “with the same intensity and level of coverage that you used to defame the company in the first place,” including that it be published on multiple occasions and across network platforms.

“Beyond the financial harm you have done to Smartmatic, your disinformation campaign has created personal risk for the men and women who work at the company,” Connolly wrote. “Smartmatic and its employees and management have received countless threats in the wake of your reports.”_
*








						Lou Dobbs Airs Segment Refuting Election Fraud Claims — Including His Own — In Wake Of Legal Threat
					

Fox Business host Lou Dobbs aired a segment on Friday that amounted to a fact-checking refutation of claims that he and guests have made about an election tech company Smartmatic and its role in the 2020 presidential election, after the company threatened legal action. Other similar segments...




					www.yahoo.com
				



*


----------



## dutchie (23 December 2020)

Great opportunity to short the US MSM. They will all go broke.
Once Trump goes they will have nothing to sell (no more DTS to espouse).

P.S. There are a few posters here too that I would short if I could LOL


----------



## basilio (23 December 2020)

So all of Trumps criminal little swamp piglets are lining up to get a Get out Of Jail Free card from the Swine in Chief.

So far we have the corrupt Congressmen, the Iraq murderers and the campaign officials who tried to hide Russias invoilvment in helping Trump get elected. Lovely hand.

I thought the wealthy Re Chris Collins who used his position to make a mint on a plunging  Pharma stock was worth highlighting in predictable abuse of Presidential Office.









						Trump pardons ex-campaign aide, Blackwater contractors and disgraced lawmakers
					

President grants pardons to 15 people, including contractors convicted in massacre in Iraq, and commutes others’ sentences




					www.theguardian.com
				











						Prosecutors Seek 5 Years in Prison for Ex-NY Rep. Chris Collins in Fraud Case
					

Prosecutors are seeking nearly five years in prison for a former New York congressman who pleaded guilty to conspiracy to commit fraud




					www.nbcnewyork.com


----------



## basilio (23 December 2020)

I wonder what the going rate for a Trump pardon is these days ?

Surely it would have to be at least $1m to his personal fighting find ?


----------



## SirRumpole (23 December 2020)

Donald who ?


----------



## basilio (23 December 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Donald who ?



Indeed!! No one important.  Currently the most powerful person in the US and probably the world and still scheming to overturn the results of the election he lost.

But apart from that...
......................................................................................
He is also  a  totally ruthless sociopath with no boundaries either politically or socially.  He is currently  totally  unhinged  as he watches his current political career disintegrate and a host of criminal cases rising to the surface across the US.

So .. yeah.  Donald who ..









						Senior Republican says Trump's final election challenge will ‘go down like a shot dog’
					

Trump continues to make baseless claims of mass electoral fraud, and has reportedly attacked both McConnell and Pence




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## SirRumpole (23 December 2020)

basilio said:


> I wonder what the going rate for a Trump pardon is these days ?
> 
> Surely it would have to be at least $1m to his personal fighting find ?




Interesting, if that could be proven it would be corruption I would think.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (23 December 2020)

basilio said:


> So all of Trumps criminal little swamp piglets are lining up to get a Get out Of Jail Free card from the Swine in Chief.
> 
> So far we have the corrupt Congressmen, the Iraq murderers and the campaign officials who tried to hide Russias invoilvment in helping Trump get elected. Lovely hand.
> 
> ...



Haha ha. Trump’s “ criminal little swamp piglets”.

I enjoy an iamb or four.

Describes them well.

gg


----------



## cynic (25 December 2020)

Found this on the Don's Facebook page.

If this conspiracy theory turns out to be true, then definite cause for concern:


----------



## basilio (25 December 2020)

cynic said:


> Found this on the Don's Facebook page.
> 
> If this conspiracy theory turns out to be true, then definite cause for concern:





Love it!!   *Every, Single, Lie* promulgated by Q Anon, Trump and his millions of zealots repeated with loving persuasive BS.

Ignore the fact that each and everyone one of these stories was tested in courts and found wanting, completely unreliable or just wrong. They have been painstakingly refuted time after time but this crew is impervious to reality or facts - much like the current Fantastist in Chief.

If the world was full of lizard people and shape shifters  we would also "have cause for concern". Well there are your lizard people and shapeshifters in full view embarking on their crusade to pervert the US election system


----------



## basilio (25 December 2020)

More thoughts on  "The Plot to Steal" piece promoted by the President on his Facebook page.

1) *Brilliant ploy to post it on Christmas day.* No other news. Who is going to challenge it while they are trying to enjoy Christmas with their families and friends

2)  *The story  now has the support and promotion  of the President of the US.*  That is a very significant endorsement. Can Trump can be personally challenged to provide evidence that proves the range of  allegations made in the video ? Is this the opportunity he has to present his case directly to the courts ?

3) *Will this split the Republicans ?* How long can they continue to back or not confront this continuing challenge to integrity of the US election systems and all the components that support it ? Local electorate offices. Counters, supervisors, everyone.

4) *How will this affect the upcoming Senate runoffs in Georgia ?* Will it undermine the Republican vote and drive the Democrats under harder ?


----------



## cynic (25 December 2020)

basilio said:


> Love it!!   *Every, Single, Lie* promulgated by Q Anon, Trump and his millions of zealots repeated with loving persuasive BS.
> 
> Ignore the fact that each and everyone one of these stories was tested in courts and found wanting, completely unreliable or just wrong. They have been painstakingly refuted time after time but this crew is impervious to reality or facts - much like the current Fantastist in Chief.
> 
> If the world was full of lizard people and shape shifters  we would also "have cause for concern". Well there are your lizard people and shapeshifters in full view embarking on their crusade to pervert the US election system



I would be interested to know, how it is, that you were able to reach such certainty regarding those claims.

Is your confidence based solely upon failed efforts to have the allegations supported by the courts? 
(It may be worth noting that courts are by no means infallible.)

Or perhaps you have other information/insights into the matter that you'd be willing to share?


----------



## basilio (25 December 2020)

cynic said:


> I would be interested to know, how it is, that you were able to reach such certainty regarding those claims.
> 
> Is your confidence based solely upon failed efforts to have the allegations supported by the courts?
> (It may be worth noting that courts are by no means infallible.)




I could  quote a 100 plus analysis which point out the lies, misunderstandings  and fallacies around the stolen election rubbish.
But in the end I would rest the case at the hands of the most partisan Attorney General to ever head the position in US history, William Barr.

Trump demanded that Barr use the FBI to find evidence to back up his claims of a rigged election. Barr, using all the resources of the FBI, could not find any evidence and said so. 

But of course Trump needs a different answer so he will try to find somebody will find "something".  And then they can take it to the courts and see if this evidence stands up. Trouble is of course nothing  so far submitted  to the Courts has looked remotely like standing up to scrutiny to date. 









						Disputing Trump, Barr says no widespread election fraud
					

WASHINGTON (AP) — Disputing President Donald Trump’s persistent, baseless claims, Attorney General William Barr declared Tuesday the U.S. Justice Department has uncovered no evidence of widespread voter fraud that could change the outcome of the 2020 election.  Barr's comments, in an interview...




					apnews.com
				












						Barr says 'no reason' for special counsel on election fraud or Hunter Biden
					

Outgoing Attorney General William Barr said that the investigation into Hunter Biden's financial dealings was "being handled responsibly and professionally."




					www.pbs.org
				












						Trump Publicly Calls For Special Counsel To Probe Baseless Voter Fraud Allegations
					

President Trump’s push for a special counsel has now become public, on the same day Attorney General William Barr leaves the Department of Justice.




					www.forbes.com


----------



## cynic (25 December 2020)

Thanks for providing that basilio. 

I suspect that I am probably not alone, in allowing my opinion to be heavily influenced, by that which I would like to believe, rather than an impartial consideration, of the full spectrum of available data.


----------



## moXJO (26 December 2020)

Just for a laugh (but a true story).

*The Smartest Man In The World – IQ 200 – Is Convinced The U.S. Election Was Stolen.*



https://thenationalpulse.com/news/t...200-is-convinced-the-u-s-election-was-stolen/


----------



## moXJO (26 December 2020)

cynic said:


> Thanks for providing that basilio.
> 
> I suspect that I am probably not alone, in allowing my opinion to be heavily influenced, by that which I would like to believe, rather than an impartial consideration, of the full spectrum of available data.



Truth is its misdirection. It was won by the mail in ballots and the ballot harvesting, and collection groups that went along with it. Voter ID should be required and the harvesting shouldn't be an option. They will win Georgia using the same system.


----------



## satanoperca (26 December 2020)

moXJO said:


> Just for a laugh (but a true story).
> 
> *The Smartest Man In The World – IQ 200 – Is Convinced The U.S. Election Was Stolen.*
> 
> ...



They wouldn't be right leaning would they. From the national pulse


----------



## moXJO (26 December 2020)

satanoperca said:


> They wouldn't be right leaning would they. From the national pulse
> 
> View attachment 117202



I put it up for a laugh.

Read the guys twitter feed he is like the head of QAnon fan club with theories. And he is classed as one of if not highest IQ in US.

Interesting theory on Havana syndrome and 5G.


----------



## Knobby22 (26 December 2020)

moXJO said:


> Just for a laugh (but a true story).
> 
> *The Smartest Man In The World – IQ 200 – Is Convinced The U.S. Election Was Stolen.*
> 
> ...



My wife told me I was of average intelligence. That is just mean. 
(Boom boom).


----------



## bellenuit (26 December 2020)

moXJO said:


> It was won by the mail in ballots and the ballot harvesting, and collection groups that went along with it.




It was won by votes for Biden. Live with it.


----------



## moXJO (26 December 2020)

bellenuit said:


> It was won by votes for Biden. Live with it.



Dodgy dodgy votes.

Im backed by the worlds Smartest Man.


----------



## sptrawler (26 December 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Interesting, if that could be proven it would be corruption I would think.



The thing that surprises me, is that Bas hasn't been done for defamation. I see those mothers in Qld, that defamed a headmistress on Facebook, were done for heaps.
What Bas says, is beyond the pale, but gives me a great laugh.


----------



## IFocus (26 December 2020)

moXJO said:


> Truth is its misdirection. It was won by the mail in ballots and the ballot harvesting, and collection groups that went along with it. Voter ID should be required and the harvesting shouldn't be an option. They will win Georgia using the same system.





Lets try again.

If the mail in ballots were harvested and massive false voter ID along with lots of other fraud allegations then why was were there not the same trends seen in the Congress and Senate elections where actual greater power could have won?

It was all on the same ballot called down the ballot voting.

How could this be the case?

Are the Democrats that clever? (I personally don't think so)

That's before you get to the Republican state government officials who got death threats for refuting all the allegations along with very conservative Republican judges and the ultra conservative supreme court.

Both parties have repeatedly stated they wouldn't mess with an election simple because the risk is too great.

Last point you avoid GOP gerrymander why?


----------



## SirRumpole (26 December 2020)

moXJO said:


> Truth is its misdirection. It was won by the mail in ballots and the ballot harvesting, and collection groups that went along with it. Voter ID should be required and the harvesting shouldn't be an option. They will win Georgia using the same system.




"Mail in ballots and ballot harvesting".

The first is a totally legitimate way of voting which we call "postal votes", and the second is a legitimate operation of political parties which both sides do.

That the side that did it best is not the one you support is irrelevant.


----------



## SirRumpole (26 December 2020)

sptrawler said:


> The thing that surprises me, is that Bas hasn't been done for defamation. I see those mothers in Qld, that defamed a headmistress on Facebook, were done for heaps.
> What Bas says, is beyond the pale, but gives me a great laugh.




Actually I agree to an extent, not about bas in particular but defamation on social media should not be allowed to happen.

If a newspaper prints a defamatory article it gets sued.

Facebook etc are publishers, although they would deny it, but they are a medium for communication just like any other media outlet and should be subject to the same laws.


----------



## bellenuit (26 December 2020)

moXJO said:


> Dodgy dodgy votes.
> 
> Im backed by the worlds Smartest Man.



... and a lot of the world's most stupid people.


----------



## Knobby22 (26 December 2020)

To be fair , Moxji is taking the piss.


----------



## moXJO (26 December 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> "Mail in ballots and ballot harvesting".
> 
> The first is a totally legitimate way of voting which we call "postal votes", and the second is a legitimate operation of political parties which both sides do.
> 
> That the side that did it best is not the one you support is irrelevant.



If you read back through I have said this countless times. The problem is the funding being filtering through advocacy groups and the payments made.

I have consistently said its a very grey area.


----------



## moXJO (26 December 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> To be fair , Moxji is taking the piss.



Shhhh.
They'll come for you.
Don't break the programming


----------



## moXJO (26 December 2020)

bellenuit said:


> ... and a lot of the world's most stupid people.



That's what the stupidest person on the planet would say.
 Belle I need your IQ scores asap. You have obviously downed to much Christmas cheer (bottle form).


----------



## noirua (27 December 2020)

__





						U.S. in Limbo as Trump Remains Mum on Covid-19 Aid Bill--Update
					

U.S. in Limbo as Trump Remains Mum on Covid-19 Aid Bill--Update



					uk.advfn.com


----------



## IFocus (27 December 2020)

noirua said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...






Donald's middle raised finger or kick to the groin to the GOP perhaps?


----------



## basilio (27 December 2020)

sptrawler said:


> The thing that surprises me, is that Bas hasn't been done for defamation. I see those mothers in Qld, that defamed a headmistress on Facebook, were done for heaps.
> What Bas says, is beyond the pale, but gives me a great laugh.




Seriously !! How could anyone be done for defamation when describing the behaviors of Donald Trump ? I mean for a start its all "Fake News" isn't it ?

The fact that Biden won the election ?  Just fake news.

Questions relating to the probity of Trump giving pardons to friends and close political allies who were part of the innumerable  questionable activities around the administration of this government ? Just more outrageous slurs against the Word Of God...

But to return to current world reality, Trump has indeed  opened a can of worms with his pardons to the various allies who have protected his back.  How ?  Consider this scenario of possible post President legal actions.

*In fact the action of pardoning people to ensure their silence is the clearest case of using ones office for the obstruction of justice.*

Check out this analysis from the Financial Times to appreciate just how dangerous Trumps position has *become because of his actions.*

*Donald Trump’s pardons must not obstruct justice            * 
Abuses of constitutional clemency power should be investigated and prosecuted
Laurence Tribe     
 








						Donald Trump’s pardons must not obstruct justice
					

Abuses of constitutional clemency power should be investigated and prosecuted




					www.ft.com
				












						How real is the threat of prosecution for Donald Trump post-presidency?
					

Legal threats range from investigations into his business dealings in New York to possible obstruction of justice charges – but all come with a political cost




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## moXJO (27 December 2020)

IFocus said:


> Donald's middle raised finger or kick to the groin to the GOP perhaps?



In the overall package every special interest got some pork. I'm sure it was over a trill. Millions on gender studies in Pakistan. Some good, some bad. But so much was tacked onto the bill it was ridiculous. And Republicans let it pass, so obviously they had sht in there. 

These politicians are the swamp. As successful as their media narrative was against Trump. He couldn't hold a candle to their breed of corruption.
I'm glad he is burning them on the way out.


----------



## moXJO (27 December 2020)

basilio said:


> Seriously !! How could anyone be done for defamation when describing the behaviors of Donald Trump ? I mean for a start its all "Fake News" isn't it ?



You have posted numerous false posts. I never saw a retraction when you were caught out.


----------



## basilio (27 December 2020)

moXJO said:


> You have posted numerous false posts. I never saw a retraction when you were caught out.



Rubbish. 

Frankly in the realm of defamation I think that statement about my contributions to ASF is far more more likely to be deemed and proven defamatory in a court of law  than anything  I have said about the Liar in Chief. 

But we all have "Free Speech" here don't we ?


----------



## moXJO (27 December 2020)

basilio said:


> Rubbish.
> 
> Frankly in the realm of defamation I think that statement about my contributions to ASF is far more more likely to be deemed and proven defamatory in a court of law  than anything  I have said about the Liar in Chief.
> 
> But we all have "Free Speech" here don't we ?



Are you saying you haven't posted bs that was caught out?


----------



## noirua (28 December 2020)

The president generally has 10 days to veto legislation, or it becomes law. However, in this case, the session of Congress ends on Jan. 3, before the 10-day period is up, which would cause the bill to expire and not become law if the president doesn't sign it.


----------



## basilio (28 December 2020)

Consequences for US citizens as Trump plays funny buggers with the COVID relief bill..

*Millions lose benefits as Trump refuses to sign Covid relief package*
11 million people will lose aid from expiration of unemployment programs as Trump heads to the golf course instead of signing bill


Millions of Americans battling the financial hardships of the coronavirus pandemic lost their unemployment benefits on Sunday as Donald Trump continued to refuse to sign a relief package agreed in Congress and headed instead to the golf course.

The president’s belligerence over the bipartisan Covid relief and spending bill, that would have extended the benefits and given direct cash payments to most American families, drew the ire of senior Republicans, who accused Trump of inflicting more misery on citizens.

“He should have weighed in eight months ago,” Larry Hogan, the governor of Maryland, said on CNN’s State of the Union in response to Trump’s claim that he would only sign if the relief package included $2,000 in direct payments instead of the $600 agreed.

“The paycheck protection plan ran out in July. Tomorrow, unemployment benefits run out. So sign the bill, get it done. And then, if the president wants to push for more, let’s get that done too.”

In a later appearance on ABC’s This Week, Hogan asserted: “Millions of Americans are going to suffer.”

*Trump, who is spending the Christmas and New Year holiday at his Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida, raised objections to the $900bn relief bill only after it was passed by Congress last week, having been negotiated by his own treasury secretary Steven Mnuchin.*









						Millions lose benefits as Trump refuses to sign Covid relief package
					

11 million people will lose aid from expiration of unemployment programs as Trump heads to the golf course instead of signing bill




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## basilio (28 December 2020)

Excellent news for the US.








						Covid: Trump signs relief and spending package into law
					

The measure restores unemployment benefits and averts a partial US government shutdown.



					www.bbc.com


----------



## basilio (2 January 2021)

The latest legal attempt to overturn the US  Federal  Election has been rejected by the courts.

Of course that doesn't mean the Fat Lady has  started to sing.    According Republician Congressman Gohmert it seems like this will now have to be resolved on the streets.

_Gohmert and his fellow plaintiffs said they would appeal. In an interview with the broadcaster Newsmax, the congressman said the ruling was “an example of when the institutions that our constitution created to resolve disputes so that you didn’t have to have riots and violence in the streets, it’s when they go wrong.”

“All this stuff about it [election fraud] being debunked, unsubstantiated, those are absolute lies,” he said, without evidence. “Basically in effect the ruling would be that you got to go to the streets and be as violent as antifa and BLM [Black Lives Matter].”_









						US judge dismisses suit filed against Pence seeking to overturn election result
					

Lawsuit aimed at allowing vice president to reject electoral college votes is latest in a long line of cases to be thrown out




					www.theguardian.com
				






			https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/washington-dc-protests/2021/01/01/da743c20-4a68-11eb-839a-cf4ba7b7c48c_story.html


----------



## basilio (4 January 2021)

Having discovered that legal means to overturn the US election results aren't going to work, Trump has decided to go the old fashioned way - persuade/threaten/squeeze the vote counters to come up with the right number of votes to enable a "victory".

He spent an hour on the phone with Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger using all his formidable charm and political skills to (unsuccessfully) convince Brad he should find 11,780 freshly minted Trump votes that would enable him to claim Georgia (but not of course the election).

The party line phone call included his Chief of Staff Mark Meadows and a few more  attorneys throwing in their suggestions on how to rewrite the election results.

Isn't it fantastic how Ted Cruz and the rest of the determined Trump followers want Congress to have an emergency audit of the election results and suddenly, Poof !  all the evidence of how corrupt the system of government has become is laid out in one comprehensive call.

Absolutely nothing new here folks.  Just another day in the office..









						Trump’s pressure on Georgia election officials raises legal questions
					

In audio from a Saturday phone call, the president is heard urging the officials to reverse his loss.




					www.politico.com
				












						Ted Cruz urges critics of presidential election challenge to calm down
					

“It’s like a tinderbox and throwing lit matches into it,” he said.




					www.politico.com
				











						'I just want to find 11,780 votes': Leaked phone call allegedly captures Trump begging election official to change results
					

The US President has alternately flattered, begged and threatened the Georgia Secretary of State in an attempt to overturn his election defeat in the state, according to audio of a phone call obtained by the Washington Post.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## bellenuit (4 January 2021)

That was an incredible phone call. He should be jailed for treason on that call alone.

Another source:

*Trump, in Taped Call, Pressured Georgia Official to ‘Find’ Votes to Overturn Election*

*








						Trump, in Taped Call, Pressured Georgia Official to ‘Find’ Votes to Overturn Election
					

The president vaguely warned of a “criminal offense” as he pressured Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger in the call, according to an audio recording.




					www.nytimes.com
				



*


----------



## PZ99 (4 January 2021)

bellenuit said:


> That was an incredible phone call. He should be jailed for treason on that call alone.
> 
> Another source:
> 
> ...



Talk about shooting your toes off given the runoff is only a few days away.


----------



## basilio (4 January 2021)

To sum up the situation...


----------



## basilio (4 January 2021)

bellenuit said:


> That was an incredible phone call. He should be jailed for treason on that call alone.
> 
> Another source:
> 
> ...




In fact in the Politco story there is a swathe of legal opinions on the dangers Trump faces as a result of this conversation.
So will he go down for corruption and attempting to pervert elections or just criminal insanity for believing he could get away with it. ?

Or ? ?


----------



## bellenuit (4 January 2021)

basilio said:


> In fact in the Politco story there is a swathe of legal opinions on the dangers Trump faces as a result of this conversation.
> So will he go down for corruption and attempting to pervert elections or just criminal insanity for believing he could get away with it. ?
> 
> Or ? ?



The problem, IMO, is that we now have blatant evidence of a coup attempt by vote suppression and coercion of election authorities, BUT what can be done to stop it. Intervention is needed immediately. Potential future criminal charges will hold no sway if he is successful and remains president.


----------



## basilio (4 January 2021)

bellenuit said:


> The problem, IMO, is that we now have blatant evidence of a coup attempt by vote suppression and coercion of election authorities, BUT what can be done to stop it. Intervention is needed immediately. Potential future criminal charges will hold no sway if he is successful and remains president.




I agree.  Given the evidence of his attempts to entice/force Brad Rafensperger to change the Georgia electoral results there should be a decisive move by the DOJ and FBI to call the President in to explain his behaviour. 

But then there have been so many blatant examples of unacceptable actions in this Presidency that have not been tackled, this process seems unlikely.  *And I'm certain that millions of people and  thousands  of politicians will still insist he has done nothing wrong and that this is all TDS or Fake News.*

So that is where we are in 2021.  A US President who has decisively lost the Presidency is refusing to accept the result.  He is denouncing the election officials who presided over the contested results as incompetent or corrupt. His legal challenges to the election have been thrown out across the country and mostly by Judges he appointed to the bench.  Nonetheless he is still repeating allegations of fraud that have no basis in fact.  To this end he is  inciting his supporters to rally at Washington to pressure the Congress not to elect the next rightful President.

And now he is on record in an hour long conversation with one of key Election Officials attempting to have the votes in Georgia , * which were  counted three times,* recounted to find a mysterious 11,780 extra votes for Donald Trump as President.

And yet we can't see a way that this behaviour will result in a swift response from the Justice Department. 

If there was a speck of integrity left in Senator Mitch McConnell he would be the man to denounce Trump and demand action.


----------



## moXJO (4 January 2021)

bellenuit said:


> The problem, IMO, is that we now have blatant evidence of a coup attempt by vote suppression and coercion of election authorities, BUT what can be done to stop it. Intervention is needed immediately. Potential future criminal charges will hold no sway if he is successful and remains president.



2021 prediction:
Biden will become President without much fuss.

Nothing has happened to Trump previously because majority of it was bs or overblown.
This is the exact reason why the vote conspiracies are doing so well. There has been an utter line of bs during his presidency to take him down. Obvious media bias. And super kook conspiracies. It now seems to be being repaid in kind. Which is a bloody waste of time. Its no wonder that people think the vote was rigged. 

He is gone. Most right wing pundits have already moved on. He has no chance of staying.

Drop the dribble till after January


----------



## basilio (4 January 2021)

moXJO said:


> 2021 prediction:
> Biden will become President without much fuss.
> 
> Nothing has happened to Trump previously because majority of it was bs or overblown.
> ...




Che ? In all that dribble you managed to totally avoid Trump spending an hour on the telephone  attempting to  strongarm the Georgian Secretary of State into overturning the election results by finding 11,700 extra Trump votes from ...anywhere he can ?

As if. somehow, this never happened and in any case meant nothing or in fact Trump is *absolutely right to demand another term !!!!*

Truly Moxjo you should be on the Trump front line in Congress.  Priceless and breathtaking..


			https://www.washingtonpost.com/


----------



## bellenuit (4 January 2021)

Interesting.....


----------



## moXJO (4 January 2021)

basilio said:


> Che ? In all that dribble you managed to totally avoid Trump spending an hour on the telephone  attempting to  strongarm the Georgian Secretary of State into overturning the election results by finding 11,700 extra Trump votes from ...anywhere he can ?
> 
> As if. somehow, this never happened and in any case meant nothing or in fact Trump is *absolutely right to demand another term !!!!*
> 
> ...



You have 4.5 minutes of a 35 minute phone call.
If there is something illegal in there then the lawyers will be at him or they will impeach. 
I doubt Biden is going to spend his first term doing that. But we have 4 and a half minutes leaked or (edited to 4 minutes). So please excuse me if I don't jump on another "get Trump" bandwagon.


And this bs that this election was clean, spare me.
We had laws rushed through for vote by mail. 
We had Facebook pumping $400mill into specific districts (which I'm sure is against the 2002 voting act). And a whole list of other crap. There's a reason people are up in arms. Its a long list.

Trump lost Bas. The way he is fighting he may just be in some kind of trouble. But he is indeed gone. Wait till after he is turfed, I'm sure they will finally pin him with something and bring on a bloody civil war. 

But get those last posts in cause he is gone very soon.


----------



## SirRumpole (5 January 2021)

moXJO said:


> 2021 prediction:
> Biden will become President without much fuss.
> 
> Nothing has happened to Trump previously because majority of it was bs or overblown.
> ...




He will be turfed out of the White House for sure, the question is can he pardon himself from all the travesties that he has committed including the latest attempt to rig the election in his favour.

The thing is, even if he did win Georgia he still hasn't got enough electoral college votes to win, so why bother ?

Simply because he's a megalomaniac who can't accept defeat.


----------



## basilio (5 January 2021)

I agree Moxjo.  The place to settle all this brouhaha is in the Courts.
Trump, Meadows and co. need to have the opportunity to present on oath their allegations of stunning electoral fraud  and the evidence to back it up. 

To date Trumps claims of election malfeasance have been refuted step by step  by the Georgian election officials.  With regard to Trumps liability...

_
Justin Levitt, a law professor at Loyola Marymount University, said it's "very possible" the president violated federal law and probably broke Georgia state law.

"It mostly turns on what the president honestly believe at this point, and the only choices aren't great," he told CBS News. "So either he understands reality and knows that there are not 11,800 ballots sitting somewhere that are Trump votes and weren't counted in recounts and audits, in which case he committed a crime. If he actually understands the true nature of the world, if he can discern fact from fiction, he probably committed a crime."

But, "if he doesn't, then we've got a chief executive who is still in power for 16.5 days who cannot reliably distinguish between fact and fiction based on the information he receives," Levitt continued.

"That's not a great consolation prize," he said, adding there is "plenty" in Mr. Trump's call with Raffensperger "that is alarmingly indicative that the president can't tell fact from fiction, that he has bought into his own conspiracy theories."_









						"Yet the president persists": Georgia's top election official refutes Trump claims
					

"This is all easily, provably false," Georgia election official Gabriel Sterling said as he debunked multiple false claims of vote fraud.




					www.cbsnews.com


----------



## moXJO (5 January 2021)

basilio said:


> I agree Moxjo.  The place to settle all this brouhaha is in the Courts.
> Trump, Meadows and co. need to have the opportunity to present on oath their allegations of stunning electoral fraud  and the evidence to back it up.
> 
> To date Trumps claims of election malfeasance have been refuted step by step  by the Georgian election officials.  With regard to Trumps liability...
> ...



The fact he believes he won is actually defense for the above call. It would make it very hard to prosecute.  16 days to go or something anyway.


----------



## basilio (5 January 2021)

moXJO said:


> *The fact he believes he won is actually defense* for the above call. It would make it very hard to prosecute.  16 days to go or something anyway.




I see your points Moxjo and  they have been made.
1) No point prosecuting Trump in the next 16 days.  Plenty of time after he leaves office
2) If in fact Trump truly believes he won the election then criminal insanity would be the most appropriate plea.

NPR researched  a wide range of legal views on the possible outcomes of the call.The insanity clause was up there.
(For some reason the link to the article below doesn't seem to stick.. If you want to read the article see the NPR website)
*Trump's Call To Georgia Election Officials Sparks Debate Over Legality, Ethic*

               January 4, 202112:16 PM ET


----------



## moXJO (5 January 2021)

basilio said:


> I see your points Moxjo and  they have been made.
> 1) No point prosecuting Trump in the next 16 days.  Plenty of time after he leaves office
> 2) If in fact Trump truly believes he won the election then criminal insanity would be the most appropriate plea.
> 
> ...




The other thing: does Biden want to start his term at war with Trumps base?
They can go hard at Trump, but there is a danger in that. The optics throughout Trumps term was that the swamp was out to get him. Democrats are already at war with the far left.

I would say if they genuinely want to normalise voter relations, that they will move forward and keep Trump out of the media spotlight. The last thing they want to do is make a martyr out of him. And Trumps speciality is sht fights. 
They need the middle and working class.


----------



## moXJO (5 January 2021)

Full audio is here:
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/politics...nsperger-election/6F7PDHDFDVCNTD3E76V7PIZWII/

I haven't listened to it as I don't really care. But I'm sure it will be picked apart over the coming days. It was actually an hour not 35 minutes or whatever I thought it was.


----------



## basilio (5 January 2021)

moXJO said:


> The other thing: does Biden want to start his term at war with Trumps base?
> They can go hard at Trump, but there is a danger in that. The optics throughout Trumps term was that the swamp was out to get him. Democrats are already at war with the far left.
> 
> I would say if they genuinely want to normalise voter relations, that they will move forward and keep Trump out of the media spotlight. The last thing they want to do is make a martyr out of him. And Trumps speciality is sht fights.
> They need the middle and working class.




I agree that Biden shouldn't go after Trump. Totally wrong.

But if there is to be some sort of normalising in the US I believe Trump and his followers have to have the opportunity in court to present their case for widespread fraud and the evidence behind it.

If this is found to be true then clearly there has been the biggest failure in the US electoral system in history. The election results should be reversed.

If on the other hand there has been no widespread fraud that could have turned the election Trumps followers need to be told that. In my view the only person who has the capacity to acknowledge such an error is Donald Trump himself. Just my opinion.


----------



## moXJO (5 January 2021)

basilio said:


> I agree that Biden shouldn't go after Trump. Totally wrong.
> 
> But if there is to be some sort of normalising in the US I believe Trump and his followers have to have the opportunity in court to present their case for widespread fraud and the evidence behind it.
> 
> ...



The rabid Trump followers are similar to antifa in that they want to tear the system down. You can present whatever you like but beliefs are generally ingrained in people.
That covid hit and changed the way the election was run during Trump is something that can't be changed. Didn't happen under Obama, bush or Clinton. So that's the view of a lot of those on the right.


People want change. But the only way you would get it is to fire every politician and start from scratch. I suppose that's why revolutions come along.


----------



## bellenuit (5 January 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> The thing is, even if he did win Georgia he still hasn't got enough electoral college votes to win, so why bother ?




Yes, indeed, Unless he made similar phone calls to the state governors and elected officials in the other states he is disputing. It seems that Georgia intended to not release the tapes unless Trump publicly denounced (or something like that) the Georgia governor after that conversation, which he then did. It is very likely he has been pressuring every state involved, we just do not have the tapes of the conversations.


----------



## bellenuit (5 January 2021)

basilio said:


> I agree that Biden shouldn't go after Trump. Totally wrong.




I agree, if you mean Biden personally, as in some sort of vendetta.

But when it comes to prosecuting wrongdoing, those who can take action against Trump should do so. There should be no doubt left that doing what Trump has done can be accepted with just a slap o the worst as punishment. Trump and all the GOP members who conspired to delegitimise a large section of the black vote should be held to account and no leniency given


----------



## dutchie (5 January 2021)

bellenuit said:


> Trump and all the GOP members who conspired to delegitimise a large section of the black vote should be held to account and no leniency given



That's right, if you did not vote for Biden, "then you ain't black".


----------



## rederob (5 January 2021)

moXJO said:


> Full audio is here:
> https://www.wsbtv.com/news/politics...nsperger-election/6F7PDHDFDVCNTD3E76V7PIZWII/
> 
> I haven't listened to it as I don't really care. But I'm sure it will be picked apart over the coming days. It was actually an hour not 35 minutes or whatever I thought it was.



Georgia had sent all the relevant information to the White House *PRIOR *to Trump's call.
Despite that in his call to Georgia's Secretary of State regarding the information provided, Trump continued to make many-times debunked claims .
These were subsequently dealt with in this link to Gabriel Sterling.
Trump's actions now are no different to what he has always done.  What is different is that his own Republican Party has finally had to call out his actions.
It's irrelevant what the media make of this event as for the first time his Georgian colleagues have demolished his credibility chapter and verse. It could not be more damning, and throws a spanner in engine room of his Senate hopefuls in tomorrow's run-off election.


----------



## moXJO (5 January 2021)

rederob said:


> It's irrelevant what the media make of this event as for the first time his Georgian colleagues have demolished his credibility chapter and verse. It could not be more damning, and throws a spanner in engine room of his Senate hopefuls in tomorrow's run-off election.



You have to wonder if he is burning it down on the way out for Republicans. His base won't vote for establishment Republicans after this.


----------



## Knobby22 (5 January 2021)

moXJO said:


> You have to wonder if he is burning it down on the way out for Republicans. His base won't vote for establishment Republicans after this.




The President is definitely doing a stress test on the Constitution. Honestly he has done everything except hold a coup and he is thinking about that.
He has created a lot of enemies within the Republican party who presently won't act as they might lose part of their voters but you can be sure there will be a lot of behind the scene actions once he is out.

And Ted Cruz, the miserable human that he is, as we all knows hates Trump with literally a vengeance.
Yet, he is the one leading the charge and acting as his so called greatest supporter in an attempt to be the next Republican nominee.


----------



## rederob (5 January 2021)

Knobby22 said:


> The President is definitely doing a stress test on the Constitution. Honestly he has done everything except hold a coup and he is thinking about that.



In the case of Trump's call to Georgia, his probable attempt to coerce a State electoral official to change the outcome falls under State jurisdiction.  Accordingly, if Trump's last action is to pardon himself from any crimes (an interesting concept of itself), such pardons only relate to federal jurisdiction so Trump might find himself with Georgia on his mind for longer than he would like.


----------



## basilio (5 January 2021)

moXJO said:


> You have to wonder if he is burning it down on the way out for Republicans. His base won't vote for establishment Republicans after this.




Indeed... Most observers see Trumps behaviour  since the election as fundamentally challenging the Republician Party and attempting to make it the Trump party. 

Trying to overthrow the election results through repeated baseless fraud allegations and then squeezing electoral officials to change the votes for him is all about Trump and not the Republician Party or the current political system. When he then demands that politicians simply believe and follow him regardless of facts he is every bit the  political demagogue that dominated politics in other times and places. Stalin, Mao, Kim Jong Un, Putin, Saddam Hussein, Mussolini, Franco.  

It's worth realising that Trump could have taken this election if a relatively small number of mostly Republician officials had bent to his will and "found" extra votes or otherwise massaged election outcomes ie not certifying results. 

As it is he has singlehandedly and fundamentally undermined US confidence in the electoral system.  His repeated lies about electoral fraud have created a core of many millions of people who will see this as a stolen election and  behave accordingly.

I repeat my previous thoughts. Trump and Giuliani and the other main players in the electoral fraud story need to have their day in court. They need to produce their evidence and have it examined fairly and in full detail.
*
And then, in my view, if the Court finds the defendants have being gravely wrong in their slandering of the electoral process, each of them should be required  to publicly repudiate their  previous statements  with the same vigour they originally made them*.  If they refuse to publicly acknowledge their slander/error the Judge can find them in contempt of court and hold them in custody until they purge their contempt. 

To date Donald Trump has never, ever acknowledged he is wrong or culpable. He just doesn't do that. And his greatest achievement to date has been demonstrating that this approach to business and politics can be successful. He is  the inspiration for hundreds of imitators  across the country and around the world.  Effectively  confronting his public trashing of the US electoral system is, IMV, critical to the future of a democratic system of government in the US.


----------



## basilio (6 January 2021)

*The Georgian Senate Run off.*


----------



## SirRumpole (6 January 2021)

basilio said:


> *The Georgian Senate Run off.*




Who won ?


----------



## bellenuit (6 January 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Who won ?




Several sources are giving Warnock (Dem) over Kelly Loeffler (GOP). Warnock has already claimed victory.

The other is still too close to call, but the momentum is with Ossoff (Dem), who is ahead by 9.5k votes and .....







If the Dems win both, there will be a split 50 - 50 senate, with the dems have the deciding vote. Most important, Mitch McConnell will lose his ability to stifle legislation.


----------



## PZ99 (6 January 2021)

I think a BBQ is on the cards


----------



## rederob (6 January 2021)

Ossoff's lead continues to increase as the final absentee/postal ballots are being counted:


----------



## PZ99 (6 January 2021)

Yeppers. A dems result is important not so much for the win or even the senate control...

It's an important message to the Republicans to not endorse some unhinged hater with a severe case of epistemic irrationality if you want to be taken seriously by more people than just your little army of sycophants.

Bye bye Trump... the world just couldn't believe you... much less afford you


----------



## moXJO (6 January 2021)

Turnout was down 15% in Trump country of northwest Georgia apparently.

Gop made a few mistakes. The $2000 payments they denied the American people was the main one.  Coming out against Trump wasn't exactly bright just before an election.

Trump telling everyone "the votes rigged" was another factor along with the sht fight with Republicans. Obviously Trumps die hard fans are  not down with mainstream gop.


----------



## basilio (6 January 2021)

I think Trump intends to wait until all the "so called" votes are counted by the "so called" counters.

That way he can accurately gauge *exactly *how many votes he has to "find" to gain the Rightful Senate victory in Georgia. 

Really. Does anyone believe Trump and these candidates are going to accept any non GOP result?  They will just go straight into  a whole new campaign about fraudulent votes and so on.

Let's see...

-------------------------------------------------------------------
But it has already started hasn't it ?


----------



## rederob (6 January 2021)

basilio said:


> I think Trump intends to wait until all the "so called" votes are counted by the "so called" counters.
> 
> That way he can accurately gauge *exactly *how many votes he has to "find" to gain the Rightful Senate victory in Georgia.
> 
> ...



Trump will have no chance of swaying his Georgian Republican leaders that the Runoff election was other than a model of excellence, as they will have left no stone unturned to ensure the result was beyond doubt.
Here's the latest update:




As you can see the trend of absentee/postal vote counts continues to favour the Democrats.  A total maximum of 17,000 overseas votes stands to be counted by Friday, although significantly fewer ballots are expected to be returned.
At this stage the only possible surprise is if there is a large number of outstanding ballots from Republican strongholds, and this would be atypical.


----------



## IFocus (6 January 2021)

Remaining votes to be counted are mainly democrat areas, will be interesting how the GOP will react to the loss.


----------



## rederob (6 January 2021)

IFocus said:


> Remaining votes to be counted are mainly democrat areas, will be interesting how the GOP will react to the loss.



Ossoff needs a bigger margin than at present to prevent a recount, although recounts usually sway across the odd hundreds, so a lead of +20000 will never be clawed back.


----------



## PZ99 (7 January 2021)

Now I know why the market's going *gang*busters


----------



## Knobby22 (7 January 2021)

Trumps crowd he whipped up is firing bullets and pipe bombs at Washington DC. Small group have broken through capital fence.
Pence forced to delay count and go into safety.
Mitchell McConnell strongest words against Trump yet.
Stock market rising strongly.
Biden chooses a moderate Attorney General which Republicans are happy with.
All happening folks. Historic events.


----------



## PZ99 (7 January 2021)

Argo US style


----------



## basilio (7 January 2021)

Trump still refuses to accept the results of the election.  He still declares he was robbed and yet cannot produce any evidence to support this lie that will stand a shred of investigation.
He has persuaded millions of people and hundreds of  Republician politicians to believe that lie.
He has led his supporters down Pennsylvania Avenue and encouraged them to storm Congress to  stop the vote.

How can he be allowed to continue as President with the power that entails for another day ? When will Pence, McConnell, Pelosi and Schumer put him on gardening leave or perhaps protective custody and allow VP Pence to complete the last two weeks of this administration and ensure an orderly transfer of power ?

Trump  knows no limits.


----------



## dutchie (7 January 2021)

basilio said:


> Trump  knows no limits.



Similar to the no limits that the Democrats (and MSM) unleashed on Trump for the last four years, starting before he was even inaugurated.


----------



## IFocus (7 January 2021)

Hilary would have been worse.......


----------



## basilio (7 January 2021)

At some stage soon,  McConnell, Pence, Schumer, Pelosi and the Cabinet will need to remove Trump from office and ensure the last 13 days of this Presidency do not degenerate into open warfare. Sate Governors are already calling for this action.

Trump clearly cannot accept the reality of his loss. His use of the Presidential office to fire up millions of people to  overthrow the Congress to keep him in power is seditious. Twitter and other media now recognise that Trump cannot be trusted to act in the interest of the US only his own.  His repeated lies on the conduct of the election and exhortations to his base to continue the fight are criminal or insane. Either way he is until for office.









						Trump agrees to 'orderly transition' after Pence declares Biden's election win
					

Donald Trump agrees to an "orderly transition" of power on January 20, after the US Congress confirmed Joe Biden's electoral college win. It comes after an extraordinary day in US politics on which a mob of Trump supporters stormed the US Capitol in an attempt to overturn the election.




					www.abc.net.au
				




*Two state governors call from Donald Trump to be removed from office*
One is *Democratic Governor of Illinois JB Pritzker*, who said that "two weeks is too long for Donald Trump to remain in office".
The other comes from *Republican Governor of Vermont Phil Scott* who said "the fabric of our democracy and the principles of our republic are under attack by the President".


----------



## basilio (7 January 2021)

The Live broadcast from the US Capitol is amazing.  (See on ABC News 24)

From both sides of the house there is realisation and acknowledgment of just how dangerous the situation Trump has created with his repeated lies on the results of the election and incessant demands to have these results overthrown.


----------



## Knobby22 (7 January 2021)

Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell called the invasion a “failed insurrection” and said, “we will not bow to lawlessness or intimidation.”


----------



## wayneL (7 January 2021)

The protests were ”mostly peaceful" though. 

Notwithstanding the protesters virtue or lack thereof, it is interesting how differently the MSM is reporting it, compared to the protests earlier in the year.


----------



## dutchie (7 January 2021)




----------



## wayneL (7 January 2021)

Memories


----------



## moXJO (7 January 2021)

wayneL said:


> Memories





Its hilarious. The big thing is blm and antifa don't like the government either. If the right and left move towards the anarchists (similar to what happened in France) it will get real interesting.

 Trump did something in four years that I thought would take decades. 

Truly the king of unintended consequences.


----------



## satanoperca (7 January 2021)

Yes he did. Threatened but not destroyed democracy
Also it is acceptable to lie.


----------



## moXJO (7 January 2021)

IFocus said:


> Hilary would have been worse.......



Yes because nothing would have changed. 
We have had the greatest change in decades for the US political system and society.


----------



## moXJO (7 January 2021)

satanoperca said:


> Also it is acceptable to lie.




And do crack while ccp shilling.


----------



## dutchie (7 January 2021)

satanoperca said:


> Also it is acceptable to lie.



Absolutely right there. 
Here is a list of politicians and MSM and US departments that have NOT lied....
______
______
______
______


----------



## moXJO (7 January 2021)

Go for the 25th and try and boot Trump Democrats. I'm sure that will settle the crowd down. 


Oh and to think pence or any serious Republican would even think to cast the GOP into the political wilderness by pissing off their base


----------



## wayneL (7 January 2021)

This is guerilla warefare


----------



## dutchie (7 January 2021)

wayneL said:


> This is guerilla warefare




No wonder the cops did not do anything about stopping them invading the Capital, it was Antifa after all.


----------



## bellenuit (7 January 2021)

wayneL said:


> This is guerilla warefare





Looks to me like a white banner (with a spelling mistake) superimposed over the normal CNN banner.


----------



## bellenuit (7 January 2021)

Yeah, Antifa for sure.









						‘Storm is here’: US victim’s final tweet
					

The woman shot and killed during violent protests at the US Capitol has been identified as a veteran and loyal Trump supporter.




					www.perthnow.com.au


----------



## wayneL (7 January 2021)

bellenuit said:


> Yeah, Antifa for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So CNN is faike knews.... again?


----------



## PZ99 (7 January 2021)

bellenuit said:


> Yeah, Antifa for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What a waste. She should've known better than to be part of a riot given her military background.


----------



## investtrader (7 January 2021)

“We need to look infinitely harder at who we elect to any office in our land — at the office seeker’s character, at their morals, at their ethical record, their integrity, their honesty, their flaws, what they have said about women, and minorities, why they are seeking office in the first place, and only then consider the policies they espouse,” General Kelly said.


----------



## dutchie (8 January 2021)

Trump needs to retire.
He tried to drain the swamp but had no chance.
Everyone cheer that the swamp continues to rule your world. Yay.


----------



## Knobby22 (8 January 2021)

dutchie said:


> Trump needs to retire.
> He tried to drain the swamp but had no chance.
> Everyone cheer that the swamp continues to rule your world. Yay.




In the early days I had hopes for Trump however he didn’t try to drain the swamp. He wallowed in it like a pig in mud and in the process damaged the USA. 

He  increased Chinese imports and their power. He reducedUSA standing. He damaged USA democracy, and got people killed. He mishandled Covid.
He acted to divide on every opportunity.

He will go down in history as a failure.


----------



## dutchie (8 January 2021)

Knobby22 said:


> In the early days I had hopes for Trump however he didn’t try to drain the swamp. He wallowed in it like a pig in mud and in the process damaged the USA.
> 
> He  increased Chinese imports and their power. He reducedUSA standing. He damaged USA democracy, and got people killed. He mishandled Covid.
> He acted to divide on every opportunity.
> ...





Knobby22 said:


> In the early days I had hopes for Trump however he didn’t try to drain the swamp. He wallowed in it like a pig in mud and in the process damaged the USA.
> 
> He  increased Chinese imports and their power. He reducedUSA standing. He damaged USA democracy, and got people killed. He mishandled Covid.
> He acted to divide on every opportunity.
> ...



Yay


----------



## Knobby22 (8 January 2021)

One of the cops has died. 
Trump backpedalling. He deserves jail.


----------



## basilio (8 January 2021)

The resignations from Trumps administration is now a flood. The  open dismay/disgust of people who cannot stomach Trumps behaviour  inciting the attack on the Congress is palpable.

There is also the fact that he is exposed on some pretty dangerous actions concerning the attack on Congress. Questions about  withholding sufficient protection when he knew there was a huge rally planned. Questions on his response to the attack.  There will be an investigation into all aspects of the attack and its consequences.  Be interesting to see the fallout with many Republicians now unwilling to  cover for his  behaviour.









						Capitol riots: Questions mount over security failure
					

The violent breach has sparked serious concerns in Washington and beyond.



					www.bbc.com


----------



## basilio (8 January 2021)

Response to the attack on the Capitol from late night commentators









						Stephen Colbert to Republicans: 'Have you had enough?'
					

Late-night hosts accuse the president and Republicans in Congress after the storming of the Capitol by pro-Trump mob




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## cynic (9 January 2021)

Although I am, as yet, undecided as to the veracity of this claim, it did, nonetheless, pique my interest, so I thought that it may be worth sharing.


----------



## rederob (9 January 2021)

cynic said:


> Although I am, as yet, undecided as to the veracity of this claim, it did, nonetheless, pique my interest, so I thought that it may be worth sharing.



Yet another example of the deranged nature of those continuing to support Trump.
As to determining where Trump is, this is always handy.  
On Topic, Trump's latest tweet confirms this:





The quality of Trump as a person and as leader has been front and centre in recent days.
Historians will have a field day.


----------



## Knobby22 (9 January 2021)

rederob said:


> Yet another example of the deranged nature of those continuing to support Trump.
> As to determining where Trump is, this is always handy.
> On Topic, Trump's latest tweet confirms this:
> View attachment 118048
> ...



Saw in the Australian that Trump has been abandoned. The sheepies will follow. Trump is dreaming if he thinks he will be contesting next election.


----------



## basilio (9 January 2021)

Trump will no longer be Twittering on. He has Tweeted his last Tribble . 
Why has Twitter decided to permanently ban Trump ?


*Twitter explains why it has permanently suspended Trump*

After years of calls to remove Donald Trump from Twitter, why is the platform taking action now? Twitter outlined its decision-making process on Friday that led to the suspension of Trump’s account in a blog post.

The final tweets that led to Trump’s suspension are as follows:


> On January 8, 2021, President Donald J. Trump tweeted:
> _“The 75,000,000 great American Patriots who voted for me, AMERICA FIRST, and MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, will have a GIANT VOICE long into the future. They will not be disrespected or treated unfairly in any way, shape or form!!!”_
> Shortly thereafter, the President tweeted:
> _“To all of those who have asked, I will not be going to the Inauguration on January 20th.”_



Twitter said that after assessing the tweets in the context of a violent storming of the Capitol on Wednesday, it determined these tweets violated Twitter’s Glorification of Violence policy and constituted immediate removal from the platform.

The refusal by Trump to attend the inauguration marked a rejection of a peaceful transfer of power and and his tweet calling followers patriots could be read as a glorification of the storming of the Capitol on Wednesday.

Together, these messages are “likely to inspire others to replicate the violent acts that took place on January 6, 2021”, Twitter concluded, and thus suspended the account.









						Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account, citing risk of 'further incitement of violence' – as it happened
					

President barred over repeated violation of platform rules as House plans articles of impeachment




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## rederob (9 January 2021)

Democrats are, at this moment, drafting articles of impeachment for a second try.
With a transition to power only 13 days away it seems vindictive.
However, there are legitimate concerns that Trump could cause the nation further harm or even press the wrong button in coming days.  
Invoking the 25th is another option, however it is legally cumbersome as it de facto leads to both Trump and Pence as acting Presidents until a final decision.
Perhaps Democrats are hoping Trump might do a Nixon and simply resign.  However, Trump's narcissism has no room for resignation or concession, as he needs to have someone else to blame for his demise.
Watching this real life political drama play out actually surpasses *Borgen*, which I thought would never be equalled as a political series.
Checking on Trump's views about the present state of play, we get this:




Hear here.


----------



## dutchie (9 January 2021)

So funny to see that Trump will forever live, rent free, in a lot of heads here. LOL

P.S.   DTS forever yay.


----------



## bellenuit (9 January 2021)

dutchie said:


> So funny to see that Trump will forever live, rent free, in a lot of heads here. LOL
> 
> P.S.   DTS forever yay.




Doubt it very much, other than to the extent that his multitude of lawsuits will put him in the public eye for the next several years.


----------



## basilio (9 January 2021)

dutchie said:


> So funny to see that Trump will forever live, rent free, in a lot of heads here. LOL
> 
> P.S.   DTS forever yay.




Absolutely spot on Dutchie. Trump Derilum Syndome has infected roughly 40 million US citizens who worship the ground he walks on, dote on each and every tweeting (lie) he produces and bottle anything he passes as a holy relic.

The rest of us will just breathe a sigh of relief if the US can muddle through the next couple of weeks without another Trump inspired  March on the Capitol. 

And of course we will be very keenly interested in the analysis of just how  the Capitol was left undefended  which Trump was geeing up the cavalry a couple of blocks away to take over the joint. Not to mention a few score of legal actions around his finances, sexual assault charges, defamation suits. The list will be extensive.


----------



## dutchie (9 January 2021)

basilio said:


> Absolutely spot on Dutchie. Trump Derilum Syndome has infected roughly 40 million US citizens who worship the ground he walks on, dote on each and every tweeting (lie) he produces and bottle anything he passes as a holy relic.
> 
> The rest of us will just breathe a sigh of relief if the US can muddle through the next couple of weeks without another Trump inspired  March on the Capitol.
> 
> And of course we will be very keenly interested in the analysis of just how  the Capitol was left undefended  which Trump was geeing up the cavalry a couple of blocks away to take over the joint. Not to mention a few score of legal actions around his finances, sexual assault charges, defamation suits. The list will be extensive.



You have obviously got a bad case of DTS


----------



## basilio (9 January 2021)

The Hitler paradies are  often good for a thoughtful laugh.

The latest one on Trumps orchestration of an assault on the Capitol to stop Bidens nomination is a beauty IMV.


----------



## basilio (9 January 2021)

Another current view of Trumps mental health condition. Not a good look..
The second story is a detailed look at the whole riot and some historical context. The consequences  for Donald Trump are stark.


----------



## satanoperca (9 January 2021)

dutchie said:


> You have obviously got a bad case of DTS



You might be correct, Bas is suffering from Dutchie Derangement Syndrome. DDS

And so am I, you have lost it.


----------



## dutchie (9 January 2021)

satanoperca said:


> You might be correct, Bas is suffering from Dutchie Derangement Syndrome. DDS
> 
> And so am I, you have lost it.



So what you are saying is... that I am living in your heads, rent free, too.


----------



## IFocus (9 January 2021)

This is a reasonable explanation of Trump

Dutchie look away

"The United States Capitol Building opened its doors in November of 1800 to house the very same institution it still houses today—the bicameral U.S. Congress created by our Constitution. No other advanced society can claim that level of political stability over the course of that 220-year period. "










						Trump’s Rebellion Against Reality
					

What the riot in the Capitol reveals.




					thedispatch.com


----------



## noirua (10 January 2021)

Twitter, Facebook banning US President Trump, is it because of a power shift?
					

Social media platforms are taking the strictest action against incumbent US President Donald Trump by banning him from their respective platforms. ...




					kalkinemedia.com


----------



## noirua (10 January 2021)

The Donald may not be phased by his Twitter account being brought to an end and this is his Twitter account until 20 January 2021: https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse









						Twitter urged to remove Trump as he posts first tweets since deadly riots
					

Politicians and members of the public are asking Twitter to remove Donald Trump as he posts his first tweets since deadly riots in Washington, DC.




					www.independent.co.uk
				



Mr Trump posted his first text tweet since he was suspended from the site on Wednesday morning, seemingly giving his backing to his aggrieved supporters.
-----
Fears may be that President Trump has continued support in the military and may attack Iran's nuclear facilities as a parting gesture. This would certainly give President Biden some early difficulty on 20 January and put riots, covid, and the economy in the back seat.


----------



## basilio (10 January 2021)

IFocus said:


> This is a reasonable explanation of Trump
> 
> Dutchie look away
> 
> ...




Astute analysis from a very conservative POV. Good find.
The Rebellion against Reality..


----------



## basilio (10 January 2021)

Perhaps a spoonful of sugar to make the medicine go down for the Von Trump family  ?


----------



## basilio (11 January 2021)

Thought it worthwhile to highlight how other  US Presidents have responded to losing elections









						Trump, McCain, Bush and Carter: different reactions to bad election results – video
					

Speeches from past US candidates conceding have been resurfacing after Trump, once again, falsely claims vote fraud




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## basilio (13 January 2021)

Came across this analysis of how Trump has always stiffed his investors and supporters.  This particular analysis highlights Trumps business history of fleecing investors and then discusses how Trump manged to spend a $1billion on his 2020 election campaign with FA to show - except some very healthy outcomes for Trump related businesses.









						Trump Is Running His Campaign Like He Ran His Businesses
					

The president is again profiting handsomely at the expense of those trusting enough to give him money.




					www.theatlantic.com


----------



## PZ99 (14 January 2021)

Not a tweet but a press release...



> In light of reports of more demonstrations, I urge that there must be NO violence, NO lawbreaking and NO vandalism of any kind. That is not what I stand for, and it is not what America stands for. I call on ALL Americans to help ease tensions and calm tempers. Thank You.




For the record I *don't* support this second impeachment effort


----------



## dutchie (14 January 2021)




----------



## rederob (14 January 2021)

PZ99 said:


> Not a tweet but a press release...
> 
> 
> 
> For the record I *don't* support this second impeachment effort



Very few Trump supporters across America have - at time of posting - changed their mind and still believe the election was stolen. This belief continues to be validated by *Trump who will not concede* (see also Trump's latest tweet immediately above), nor will he do what his predecessors have done to facilitate a smooth transition to Biden, despite declaring he would do this.
So today Trump suffered the ignominy of being the only President twice impeached by Congress.
There was also some bipartisan support as many of those voting had direct experience of the insurrection, and spent hours cowering in various places within the Capitol until order was restored.
I listened to all the speeches in real time, prior to the vote being taken.  A key theme of Republicans supporting Trump was that impeachment would continue "*the divide*" in America and would do nothing to heal the nation.  However Democrats were at pains to keep pointing out that the likes of Jim Jordan  and others still refuse to say to their Republican base that Biden won the election "fair and square."
Even after Trump was impeached I listened to A Republican Congressman being interviewed and repeating the need for claims of election fraud to be investigated, despite over 60 court cases plus a point by point rebuttal from Georgia's Republican electoral officials proving there was no basis for such claims.
In that light, baseless beliefs will continue to flourish in America, and Biden has no hope of affecting the necessary change.


----------



## wayneL (14 January 2021)

Anyone who believes that was a free and fair election is living in a clown world. Notwithstanding the failure of the courts to uphold - and there are probably very valid reasons for that which are nothing to do with the unadulterated truth - there were obvious irregularities.

That must somehow be fixed, American democracy cannot survive unless election results are beyond reproach. Clearly that is just not so at the moment.

Additionally, despite Biden's mealy mouthed platitudes towards unity, the Komrades are openly plotting the oppression of conservatives.... Yeah unity bro.

Don't be surprised if you are told to go perform an impossible auto-erotic act.

IMO, a genuine civil war (the war of secession was not a true civil war) it's going to be the least surprising result if Komrades continue to behave like they are.


----------



## rederob (14 January 2021)

wayneL said:


> Anyone who believes that was a free and fair election is living in a clown world. Notwithstanding the failure of the courts to uphold - and there are probably very valid reasons for that which are nothing to do with the unadulterated truth - there were obvious irregularities.
> 
> That must somehow be fixed, American democracy cannot survive unless election results are beyond reproach. Clearly that is just not so at the moment.
> 
> ...



Perhaps you can offer the evidence that supports your position (ideally in another thread), as thousands of pages presented to US courts on over 60 occasions after the election have shown little more than the petty fraud that occurs with every election.  
Trump's teams also fought many cases prior to the election to disenfranchise electors, and their track record was not too good.
You have a long history of latching onto ideas that lack credibility, so here is your chance to bring into the forum something that will astonish us.


----------



## SirRumpole (14 January 2021)

wayneL said:


> Anyone who believes that was a free and fair election is living in a clown world.




It was as free and fair as you can get in a country where elections are run by politicians.



wayneL said:


> Notwithstanding the failure of the courts to uphold -




A court mostly appointed by Republicans.

Give it up wayne you are just damaging your credibility by arguing the extremes of the elections.

The same system that put Trump into power removed him.

To be clear, do you personally believe that Trump won the election ?


----------



## wayneL (14 January 2021)

rederob said:


> Perhaps you can offer the evidence that supports your position (ideally in another thread), as thousands of pages presented to US courts on over 60 occasions after the election have shown little more than the petty fraud that occurs with every election.
> Trump's teams also fought many cases prior to the election to disenfranchise electors, and their track record was not too good.
> You have a long history of latching onto ideas that lack credibility, so here is your chance to bring into the forum something that will astonish us.




That is not now what is important rederob, if you believe Biden got more votes than Obama then fair play to you. I'm not going to sit here and construct a case the next several hours for your satisfaction, for you to just deny.

What is important, and this is my point, is the perception going forward. I don't know how you do it, perhaps blockchain or whatever, but if whichever side loses can see that they lost fair and square, then we can avoid all this sort of bullshyt.

That's what's important, not me proving you wrong or you proving me wrong.

Conservatives must move on from this situation now and Democrats must be a lot more magnanimous than they are being, otherwise they will be a civil war.

But come next election if this is not fixed it WILL blow up in everyone's faces


----------



## wayneL (14 January 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> It was as free and fair as you can get in a country where elections are run by politicians.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




To be clear I have no idea whether Trump or Biden won the election, but I do believe there was some shenanigans. Whether that was enough to change the result I have no idea. 

After the propaganda from the mainstream media of the last 5 years, and silicon valley meddling, I think it would actually be a freaking miracle if Trump had won the election.

My main concern is the integrity of the system and in that sense it is of no concern to me whether Trump or Biden actually won. I would have preferred for Trump to have won, but if Biden won fairly, then that is democracy.

To repeat once again it must be clear to the American people that the election results are fair dinkum and if that is not clear now, there must be ways to make sure that results are clear and unequivocal.

Without that we are going to end up in violence.


----------



## SirRumpole (14 January 2021)

wayneL said:


> there must be ways to make sure that results are clear and unequivocal.




There are. They are called the Courts, the electoral college and the Congress.


----------



## wayneL (14 January 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> There are. They are called the Courts, the electoral college and the Congress.



These are bureaucratic instruments and clearly not to the satisfaction of the folks.

For instance, our electoral system here goes unchallenged because it is seen to have integrity. 

And let's not forget it was Hillary Clinton who 4 years ago was claiming the election was stolen from her.

Somehow election results in the United States have to be seen to be beyond reproach, otherwise there will be violence, how can it be much clearer than that?

This goes beyond you being pleased with this election result or me being pleased with the previous result. We must unequivocally be able to accept election results whether we like them or not.

In the United States, that is not happening at the moment.


----------



## rederob (14 January 2021)

wayneL said:


> That is not now what is important rederob, if you believe Biden got more votes than Obama then fair play to you. I'm not going to sit here and construct a case the next several hours for your satisfaction, for you to just deny.
> 
> What is important, and this is my point, is the perception going forward. I don't know how you do it, perhaps blockchain or whatever, but if whichever side loses can see that they lost fair and square, then we can avoid all this sort of bullshyt.
> 
> ...





wayneL said:


> That is not now what is important rederob, if you believe Biden got more votes than Obama then fair play to you. I'm not going to sit here and construct a case the next several hours for your satisfaction, for you to just deny.
> 
> What is important, and this is my point, is the perception going forward. I don't know how you do it, perhaps blockchain or whatever, but if whichever side loses can see that they lost fair and square, then we can avoid all this sort of bullshyt.
> 
> ...



You lack credibility, and that is the whole point!
You boldly claim "there were obvious irregularities" and show none.
Across 2 months, despite every Trump lawyer and backer digging for evidence of electoral fraud, their presented claims were regularly vacuous or laughed out of court.  Often, as @SirRumpole points out, it happened via judges Trump had himself appointed.
The USA has a major problem with "*credibility*," and it continue to be perpetuated by the Commander in Chief. 
People that think like you are called "enablers."  They latch onto baseless claims and repeat them often enough to believe they are true. Moreover, despite abundant evidence showing the claims to be without merit, they hold firm.
A quick fix would be for Trump and his Republican Congress team to come clean.  It's really that easy right now.
But as Trump showed in the tweet above, he won't acknowledge that he lost a fair election, and conveniently forgot to tell everyone he had again been impeached.  Trump is a proven liar and deranged narcissist, and that's fine with over 70 million Americans.
That's pretty sad.
But it's entirely credible because here you are saying "_*To be clear I have no idea whether Trump or Biden won the election*_" because you refuse to believe people who are better informed to determine the fairness of US elections, and who also determined that challenges to the outcome failed to provide any relevant evidence.


----------



## wayneL (14 January 2021)

rederob said:


> You lack credibility, and that is the whole point!
> You boldly claim "there were obvious irregularities" and show none.
> Across 2 months, despite every Trump lawyer and backer digging for evidence of electoral fraud, their presented claims were regularly vacuous or laughed out of court.  Often, as @SirRumpole points out, it happened via judges Trump had himself appointed.
> The USA has a major problem with "*credibility*," and it continue to be perpetuated by the Commander in Chief.
> ...



It's not me you have to convince Rob.

likewise you are showing you will never concede any point no matter what is placed in front of you so like I said I'm not going to spend several hours doing that.

What you have to do is to convince the American voter, that is my consistent point here which you are dodging in favour of trying to disparage me with utterly faulty logic.

I hope you can do that before the situation in the US blows up in all of our faces, because we will not be unscathed here in Australia.


----------



## dutchie (14 January 2021)

Whether Trump won or Biden won is now a mute point. 
Now that the Democrats are in power they will change the rules and goal posts so that they are the only party in the USA.
But they in turn are only a figurehead for the real rulers, who flexed their power very strongly this week.
The power to ensure freedom, freedom of speech and the ability of everyone to communicate with people around the world is not held by any elected government. It is held by the elites and their power is absolute (at the moment).
Dark days ahead for those that don't conform.


----------



## dutchie (14 January 2021)

Google monopoly is very dangerous.

Another example...

*Are you part of Google's search experiment? Thousands are secretly BLOCKED from reading Australian news sites as tech giant gears up for a huge fight to avoid paying for content*









						Google blocks Australian news as part of 'experiment'
					

Users this month complained they were no longer able to see articles from national news websites including Daily Mail Australia in the search engine's results.




					www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## dutchie (14 January 2021)

Important for the Democrats to impeach Trump for inciting violence.

*Update (1635ET): *The House now has voted to impeach President Trump for allegedly inciting last week's riot in the Capitol by a margin of 232-197.


----------



## rederob (14 January 2021)

wayneL said:


> It's not me you have to convince Rob.
> 
> likewise you are showing you will never concede any point no matter what is placed in front of you so like I said I'm not going to spend several hours doing that.
> 
> ...



I responded to your post claiming _inter alia_ "*obvious irregularities*" regarding the November elections, and sought from you what they might be.
You offered nothing.
Now you make a baseless claim that I am "trying to disparage <you> with utterly faulty logic."
My posts have made it clear that no amount of evidence is likely to convince rusted-on Trump supporters unless he acknowledged reality and stated unequivocally that he lost the election, fair and square. 
If Trump had an ounce of Presidentiality to his being, his latest tweet could have done that.  
Can anyone see that happening?


----------



## IFocus (14 January 2021)

I just don't get the defending of Trump or the non stop excuses then the follow up with " false equivalence " justifications.


Stan Grant really has been cutting it to the bone.

" The nation's capital looks like Baghdad: heavily armed military on street corners. There are more American troops in Washington DC than in Afghanistan. "

" Poor whites feel like their country has abandoned them and turned to a* lying, Manhattan real estate, reality television huckster* for salvation. "










						This solemn moment could signal America's renewal or its ruin
					

The CNN pundits are right, this is a solemn moment: it could signify American renewal but it could just as well signify American ruin, writes Stan Grant.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## macca (14 January 2021)

Not a tweet but then, he has been censored.........

A link to the full transcript of Trumps speech, an interesting read









						Trump’s speech that ‘incited’ Capitol riot: Here’s what he said
					

Trump is accused of ‘incitement of insurrection’ after giving a speech before his supporters stormed the Capitol.




					www.aljazeera.com


----------



## DB008 (14 January 2021)

wayneL said:


> Anyone who believes that was a free and fair election is living in a clown world. Notwithstanding the failure of the courts to uphold - and there are probably very valid reasons for that which are nothing to do with the unadulterated truth - there were obvious irregularities.




Very much so








*Jovan Pulitzer & Georgia Senate "ballot fraud detection" testimony Dec 30, 2020 election voter*








*Jovan Pulitzer: I have just uploaded all the data and evidence of foreign election interference*






.​


----------



## DB008 (14 January 2021)

This picture sums it up

If it were the Republicans doing it, it would be on the cover of TIME Magazine





​If you have nothing to hide - why do this?

Why not double check the results?


----------



## dutchie (14 January 2021)

President Trump will be the only president to be impeached not for what he said but for what Democrats wished he had said.


toddstarnes


----------



## IFocus (15 January 2021)

Like I said I don't get the excuses for Trump non of it makes sense.


----------



## IFocus (15 January 2021)

macca said:


> Not a tweet but then, he has been censored.........
> 
> A link to the full transcript of Trumps speech, an interesting read
> 
> ...




Below hanging offence right there, but wait there is more...unbelievable.


" They rigged it like they’ve never rigged an election before. By the way, last night, they didn’t do a bad job either, if you notice. *I’m honest.* I just, again, I want to thank you. It’s just a great honour to have this kind of crowd and to be before you. Hundreds of thousands of American patriots are committed to the honesty of our elections and the integrity of our glorious republic. All of us here today do not want to see our election victory stolen by emboldened radical left Democrats, which is what they’re doing and stolen by the fake news media. That’s what they’ve done and what they’re doing. We will never give up. We will never concede, it doesn’t happen. You don’t concede when there’s theft involved. "


----------



## Smurf1976 (15 January 2021)

IFocus said:


> I just don't get the defending of Trump or the non stop excuses then the follow up with " false equivalence " justifications.



As an individual Trump is very seriously flawed. Classic narcissistic bully is exactly what he is and I've zero time for anyone like that.

Politically though, well he does have some underlying valid points and the same could be said in regard to Australian politics.

The Democrats, and in Australia the ALP, seem to have sadly become aimed at both ends but not at the majority in the middle. They'll look after the poor, have an unholy alliance with the rich, and have abandoned the majority in the middle.

Something's very seriously wrong when a plumber or truck driver votes for the Coalition whilst their boss votes Labor. That's a simple example but it's symptomatic of the problem with the ALP and in the US case the Democrats. They seem to have time for every "Left" cause that comes along however trivial, and are happy to hold hands with the actual top end of town, but have forgotten about the rest.

The rest have had enough of being ignored, taken for granted and even looked down upon and Trump in the US, and ScoMo in Australia, are products of that reality with the difference being that the latter's a far calmer and more sensible individual.

Looking at specific party leaders who lost, well Hillary Clinton and Bill Shorten both came across much the same. Neither seemed like they had too much in common with the ordinary person, both seemed to be threatening more of the same approach of turning their backs on the ordinary workers and taking them for granted whilst pandering to those wanting special treatment.


----------



## dutchie (15 January 2021)

Attention:  Calling all DTS sufferers -  you only have 5 more days to whinge and make up stories about Donald Trump. Get in while you can.


----------



## SirRumpole (15 January 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> Looking at specific party leaders who lost, well Hillary Clinton and Bill Shorten both came across much the same. Neither seemed like they had too much in common with the ordinary person, both seemed to be threatening more of the same approach of turning their backs on the ordinary workers and taking them for granted whilst pandering to those wanting special treatment.




I'd also mention Jeremy Corbin in the UK. A long way Left and turned off the average worker who were worried about higher taxation.

The only Centre-Left parties to have won government from Opposition are the ones closer to the centre, Hawke, Rudd, Blair etc. Don't frighten the horses and suck up to the media.


----------



## Belli (15 January 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> Classic narcissistic bully is exactly what he is




More likely a delusional psychopath.


----------



## IFocus (15 January 2021)

A bit about how the US got to here and where Trump fits. In a small part addresses some of Smurfs points.



From Bill Clinton’s “New Democrats” through Barak Obama’s “hope and change,” Democratic leaders embraced the conservative consensus. They championed the corporate trade policies that shipped jobs abroad, while liberal economists mocked those who warned of the consequences. They did little as unions were crushed, as wages stagnated and the price of necessities like health care, education, and housing soared. They shelved antitrust enforcement and touted Wall Street deregulation. And when the resulting financial wilding finally ended in the financial collapse of 2008, the Obama administration bailed out the banks that were responsible, while millions of Americans whom they preyed upon lost their homes and their savings.

Ostracizing Trump and prosecuting those who terrorized the Capitol is imperative, but the survival of this democracy depends not on whether Trump is impeached or disgraced but on whether it can actually work for working people again. If it can’t—and change won’t be easy, because it requires challenging the elites and the entrenched interests of both parties—then Trump is likely to be seen merely as an amateur opening for the full horror show that is yet to come.

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/trump-capitol-biden-neolibera...


----------



## moXJO (15 January 2021)

IFocus said:


> A bit about how the US got to here and where Trump fits. In a small part addresses some of Smurfs points.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The article still doesn't get it right.
 But at least it briefly light up the above paragraphs.


----------



## PZ99 (15 January 2021)

IFocus said:


> Like I said I don't get the excuses for Trump non of it makes sense.



It's called blind faith mate. The Trump sympathisers that troll this website have extremely myopic views and they can only see what they want to see. It's all part of the "programming" - the very attribute they accuse others of.

Just look at the troll that keeps going on about "DTS sufferers" - it's like a broken record but that's all they have.

They demonstrate the very faults they see in others. It would be funny if it wasn't so boring and repetitive.

Even funnier, they make Trump look worse than he really is.... as has just been clearly demonstrated.

Sadly however.... ASF is worse off because of it.


----------



## Belli (15 January 2021)

PZ99 said:


> It's called blind faith mate.





He he.  We called it confirmation bias.


----------



## dutchie (15 January 2021)

The case for Trumps' second impeachment is as feeble as the first.

As shown below there is more of a case for Pelosi and Waters to be impeached.

But not a peep from the peanut gallery when any of the cases below occurred. Hypocrites.


----------



## Belli (15 January 2021)

dutchie said:


> The case for Trumps' second impeachment is as feeble as the first.




You have 1,432 historical and constitutional scholars against you on that one.


----------



## Junior (15 January 2021)

dutchie said:


> The case for Trumps' second impeachment is as feeble as the first.
> 
> As shown below there is more of a case for Pelosi and Waters to be impeached.
> 
> But not a peep from the peanut gallery when any of the cases below occurred. Hypocrites.





...and yet, a record number of Republican senators cross the floor to vote for impeachment.  Whilst others only vote against impeachment because they fear for the safety of their family, should they dare defy Dear Leader.

Very relieved to see actual consequences brewing for Donald Drumpf.


----------



## Smurf1976 (15 January 2021)

IFocus said:


> From Bill Clinton’s “New Democrats” through Barak Obama’s “hope and change,” Democratic leaders embraced the conservative consensus. They championed the corporate trade policies that shipped jobs abroad, while liberal economists mocked those who warned of the consequences. They did little as unions were crushed, as wages stagnated and the price of necessities like health care, education, and housing soared. They shelved antitrust enforcement and touted Wall Street deregulation. And when the resulting financial wilding finally ended in the financial collapse of 2008, the Obama administration bailed out the banks that were responsible, while millions of Americans whom they preyed upon lost their homes and their savings.



In a nutshell that's the problem with politics.

If you're a minority with a "woke" cause then you get looked after. If you're a rich elite then you get all you want and the table's tilted in your favour. Everyone else from workers and students through to small business owners or small time investors gets shafted.

The masses are, quite simply, getting fed up with this and will vote for anyone who looks like they're going to fix it or at least stop making it worse.


----------



## wayneL (15 January 2021)

Belli said:


> You have 1,432 historical and constitutional scholars against you on that one.




Curious that those same scholars don't apply the same principles to the Dems who have openly promoted violence over the last year.

Try a little critical thinking bro, it will be to your benefit as time goes by.


----------



## basilio (15 January 2021)

DB008 said:


> This picture sums it up
> 
> If it were the Republicans doing it, it would be on the cover of TIME Magazine
> 
> ...




This was just another lie created and spread to undermine the election results.

Why were the windows boarded up ? Check out what actually happened.

And by the way there were  268 Democratic challengers, 227 Republican challengers and 75 nonpartisan challengers  on the floor checking the counting of the votes.








						Videos falsely claiming election fraud in Detroit spread quickly, with help
					

Videos are more difficult to police, as they can jump from Twitter and Facebook to sites such as TikTok and lose context.



					www.freep.com


----------



## basilio (15 January 2021)

Looks like Trumps invitation to the Jan 6th  crowd to come to his Capitol Hill Party was taken very seriously. !!









						'QAnon shaman' asks for presidential pardon for storming the Capitol, saying he was 'answering the call' of Mr Trump
					

The lawyer for the US Capitol siege rioter known as the "QAnon shaman" has asked for a presidential pardon for his client, as another member of the mob who stormed the building faces court for allegedly planning to take hostages using zip-tie handcuffs.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## wayneL (15 January 2021)

rederob said:


> I responded to your post claiming _inter alia_ "*obvious irregularities*" regarding the November elections, and sought from you what they might be.
> You offered nothing.
> Now you make a baseless claim that I am "trying to disparage <you> with utterly faulty logic."
> My posts have made it clear that no amount of evidence is likely to convince rusted-on Trump supporters unless he acknowledged reality and stated unequivocally that he lost the election, fair and square.
> ...



I repeat what I have said on here before I'm primarily here for banter and discussion not legalistic argument.

The circumstantial evidence of vote tampering is all over that god damn internet, rederob. If you want to look for it you can find it but as big only employee of my own business I'm not interested in spending hours correlating videos and what.

But as I've tried to convey before, this misses the greater point anyway.

The greater point is confidence in the electoral system... This is clearly lacking and whether or not this election result is fair dinkum or not does not matter. What I think is really important is that future elections are seen to be absolutely above recourse.

Perhaps we might agree on that point?


----------



## rederob (15 January 2021)

wayneL said:


> I repeat what I have said on here before I'm primarily here for banter and discussion not legalistic argument.
> 
> The circumstantial evidence of vote tampering is all over that god damn internet, rederob. If you want to look for it you can find it but as big only employee of my own business I'm not interested in spending hours correlating videos and what.
> 
> ...



All you have done is promote proven untruths.
The US electoral system was proven sound via numerous challenges and recounts, and the court system was tested over 60 times with the types of claims you continue to make but were conclusively found wanting.
Those promoting your false narrative about the electoral system are merely incapable of accepting the results of a free and fair election.
Your "*point*" has been trashed, and you are unwilling to accept it.


----------



## basilio (15 January 2021)

rederob said:


> *All you have done is promote proven untruths.*
> The US electoral system was proven sound via numerous challenges and recounts, and the court system was tested over 60 times with the types of claims you continue to make but were conclusively found wanting.
> Those promoting your false narrative about the electoral system are merely incapable of accepting the results of a free and fair election.
> Your "*point*" has been trashed, and you are unwilling to accept it.




Sums it up doesn't it ?

But as long Trump continues to insist he was robbed millions of people in thrall with him will accept his word and reject all the vote counts, failed legal cases, repeated efforts to pressure State legislatures to change votes.  The lot. Politico outlines the continuing efforts to  overthrow the election results. Trumps refusal to make any sort of acknowledgment he lost is part of that narrative. 

IMV Trump and the US need to let him have his day in court to produce the evidence for his refusal to accept the election results.

Basta.  Let the courts decide.









						Online extremists are ignoring Trump’s call for calm
					

Many are taking their cues from the fact that the president still has not conceded.




					www.politico.com


----------



## Belli (16 January 2021)

wayneL said:


> Curious that those same scholars don't apply the same principles to the Dems who have openly promoted violence over the last year.
> 
> Try a little critical thinking bro, it will be to your benefit as time goes by.




LOL.  Typical tactic at deflection.

Try a little critical thinking bro, it will be to your benefit as time goes by.


----------



## wayneL (16 January 2021)

rederob said:


> All you have done is promote proven untruths.
> The US electoral system was proven sound via numerous challenges and recounts, and the court system was tested over 60 times with the types of claims you continue to make but were conclusively found wanting.
> Those promoting your false narrative about the electoral system are merely incapable of accepting the results of a free and fair election.
> Your "*point*" has been trashed, and you are unwilling to accept it.



Only in your echo chamber man.


----------



## DB008 (16 January 2021)

basilio said:


> This was just another lie created and spread to undermine the election results.
> 
> Why were the windows boarded up ? Check out what actually happened.




LOL


----------



## SirRumpole (16 January 2021)

Republican backers vote with their dollars.









						Trump backers lose millions as big-name donors walk away after 'insurrection'
					

As corporate donors flee Republicans after the Capitol riot, shareholder activists are turning their attention to boardrooms that supported Donald Trump.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## dutchie (16 January 2021)

basilio said:


> This was just another lie created and spread to undermine the election results.
> 
> Why were the windows boarded up ? Check out what actually happened.
> 
> ...



Well I agree with the little petals, I'd be intimidated too if I had people watching me cheat.


----------



## bellenuit (16 January 2021)

It's amazing what an impending lawsuit can achieve.


----------



## rederob (16 January 2021)

wayneL said:


> Curious that those same scholars don't apply the same principles to the Dems who have openly promoted violence over the last year.
> 
> Try a little critical thinking bro, it will be to your benefit as time goes by.



At what point will you use credible sources for your claims?
For that matter, why do you make claims that you refuse to substantiate or, worse, contradict immediately after you have made them?
For example you said: 







wayneL said:


> I repeat what I have said on here before I'm primarily here for banter and discussion not legalistic argument.



And in the next sentence began with "_The circumstantial evidence ..._."
In relation to being "_here for banter and discussion_" you effectively stopped responding to my replies in this thread and instead went to the *Tyranny *thread to make what I consider to be a ludicrous claim.
Despite what @bellenuit posted above regarding countless false claims made about Dominion,  belief in massive election fraud persists in America and will only disappear when Trump and his enablers admit they lost fair and square.  Here's a snapshot of the nutjobs that are rusted on to Trump and need him to fess up:


----------



## basilio (17 January 2021)

It will be interesting to see the range of conscience awareness in the US Senate  when Trumps impeachment trial begins. 
Mitch McConnell has indicated Republicans will not have to toe a Party line but judge the trial on its merits. 

I suppose it depends on how afraid Republician Senators are of being killed by Q Anon and other Trump supporters if they vote against Donald Trump - as distinct from January 2020 when they were told in no uncertain terms the consequences of voting against Trumps first impeachment









						McConnell tells senators to vote with conscience in Trump impeachment trial
					

Republican senate leader Mitch McConnell reportedly tells colleagues they are free to "vote with their conscience" in the second impeachment trial of outgoing President Donald Trump, freeing them from toeing the party line.




					www.abc.net.au
				












						‘He Won’t Last Until the Primary’: Republicans Who Voted to Impeach Getting Death Threats
					

Just one day after voting to impeach Trump, the 10 Republicans who sided against him have endured both physical and political threats.



					www.thedailybeast.com


----------



## dutchie (18 January 2021)

'Let's All Remain Peaceful,' Says Trump In Clear Incitement To Violence
January 11th, 2021




36.3kShares
28.1kSHARE
3.8kSHARE
SHARE
WASHINGTON, D.C.—A review of Trump's statements last week made it clear that he was inciting violence, as he very clearly told people to "remain peaceful" and not carry out any violence.

The dangerous cult leader encouraged his followers to protest at the Capitol, but to remain peaceful, which is an obvious instance of inciting violence, according to leading language experts and journalists.
"Let's all remain peaceful," he said, which clearly meant, "Go burn down the Capitol Building."
"No violence!" added the deranged lunatic, which, according to the New York Times, was a dog whistle for "Minions, attack!"
"Go home," he added, which meant, "Keep pressing the attack! We will not be defeated! Blow stuff up!"
At publishing time, Trump had said, "I've always encouraged peaceful protesting," which meant he wanted his followers to go ransack an Arby's.


----------



## basilio (18 January 2021)

I remember noting early on that a Trump pardon wouldn't come cheap. After all he is very much an ethics free businessman and having a golden opportunity to give Get out of Jail Free cards  to  the best candidates ie political mates with deep, deep pockets is too good an opportunity to miss isn't it ?

It seems the going rate for a pardon is $2m.   NY Times has done some deep digging on Trumps latest efforts at obtaining free food and board at the governments expense for the next 10 years..
..............................................................................................................................................
And of course the best facilities would also offer great  education and rehabilitation opportunities. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/giu...p-pardon-costs-2-million-nyt-2021-1?r=AU&IR=T


----------



## basilio (18 January 2021)

More details on the scope of using Presidental pardons as a business opportunity.








						Prospect of pardons in final days fuels market to buy access to Trump
					

As President Donald Trump prepares to leave office in days, a lucrative market for pardons is coming to a head.




					www.baltimoresun.com


----------



## basilio (19 January 2021)




----------



## PZ99 (19 January 2021)

I'm putting another lazy bitcoin on Trump issuing around a hundred pardons tomorrow...

starting with Joe Biden and son


----------



## bellenuit (19 January 2021)

PZ99 said:


> I'm putting another lazy bitcoin on Trump issuing around a hundred pardons tomorrow...
> 
> starting with Joe Biden and son




Actually that might be a smart move. It makes Trump seem magnanimous  among his dumb supporters, it prevents any lawsuits against them going to trial thus providing no opportunity to prove innocence and it puts pressure on Biden to reciprocate.


----------



## basilio (20 January 2021)

*McConnell says Trump 'provoked' the Capitol riot as Senate weighs another impeachment trial*

*McConnell: Capitol mob was 'fed lies,' 'provoked by the president'*
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell discusses the Capitol riots and Biden's inauguration during Senate address.









						McConnell says Trump 'provoked' the Capitol riot as Senate weighs another impeachment trial
					

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., placed blame on President Trump for the riot at the Capitol on Jan. 6 that left five people dead, including a Capitol police officer.




					www.foxnews.com
				




Maybe it's time for Trump and his  retinue of liars and enablers to look for asylum  in another country. Brazil perhaps ? Hungary ? Turkey ?


----------



## bellenuit (20 January 2021)

basilio said:


> *McConnell says Trump 'provoked' the Capitol riot as Senate weighs another impeachment trial*
> 
> *McConnell: Capitol mob was 'fed lies,' 'provoked by the president'*
> Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell discusses the Capitol riots and Biden's inauguration during Senate address.
> ...




Bas, you are not going to take the word of an extreme Left Antifa supporter like Mitch McConnell are you, particularly as the story is coming from a discredit left wing news source like Fox.


----------



## IFocus (21 January 2021)

Drain the Swamp haha


----------



## orr (21 January 2021)

The events of the last hours.... Just relief
It's like a carbunckle that's been lanced....

The internal confict of head over heart or vise/virsa... Descartes V Hegel... Is certainly exposed though a few back pg's here.  Tragically, It's just so predictable. Be mindful though that Wilful ignorance is imposed on thyself....


----------



## basilio (30 January 2021)

So  Donald Trump  had been cultivated  as an asset by the Russians for 40 years.   Wonder if this will come up in his impeachment trial ?

Russia has been cultivating Trump as an asset for 40 years, former KGB spy says​
The KGB cultivated Trump as an asset for 40 years, a former operative told The Guardian.
Yuri Shvets told The Guardian that the KGB had identified Trump as a potential asset in the 1980s.
Shvets said it was stunning when Trump took out an ad repeating anti-Western talking points after a trip to Moscow.
Visit Business Insider’s homepage for more stories.

The KGB cultivated Donald Trump as an asset for 40 years, and he proved a highly valuable asset in repeating anti-Western Russian propaganda in the United States, a former KGB operative  told The Guardian.

Yuri Shvets is a key source in “American Kompromat,” a new book detailing the decades-long relationship between Trump and Russia by the journalist Craig Unger.

The book, which is based on interviews with former Russian and US operatives, details the KGB’s attempts in the 1980s to cultivate dozens of unwitting businesspeople in the United States as useful Russian assets.

Shvets told The Guardian that the KGB had identified Trump, then an up-and-coming property developer, as a potential asset in the 1980s.

“This is an example where people were recruited when they were just students and then they rose to important positions; something like that was happening with Trump,” Shvets told the paper.









						Russia has been cultivating Trump as an asset for 40 years, former KGB spy says
					

Yuri Shvets told The Guardian that the KGB had identified Trump as a potential asset as far back as the 1980s.




					www.businessinsider.com.au


----------



## basilio (30 January 2021)

This is the story of the three full page ads that Trump placed in major US newspapers in 1987 after he visited Moscow. The content represented the talking points made to Trump during that trip.

Trump: U.S. Should Stop Paying To Defend Countries that Can  Protect Selves​JOHN SHANAHAN September 2, 1987

       NEW YORK (AP) _ Real estate developer Donald J. Trump bought full-page ads in three major U.S. newspapers to say the United States should stop paying to defend countries that can afford to protect themselves.

       The advertisements appeared in Wednesday’s New York Times, Washington Post and Boston Globe at a total cost of $94,801, said Trump spokesman Daniel Klores.

       The ads bore the headline, ″There’s nothing wrong with America’s Foreign Defense Policy that a little backbone can’t cure.″

       ″For decades, Japan and other nations have been taking advantage of the United States″ and that it has been costing this nation in terms of the economy, deficit and taxes, the ad said. ″The saga continues unabated as we defend the Persian Gulf.″

       Trump described the Gulf as ″an area of only marginal significance to the United States for its oil supplies, but one upon which Japan and others are almost totally dependent.″

       ″Why are these nations not paying the United States for the human lives and billions of dollars we are losing to protect their interests? ... The world is laughing at America’s politicians as we protect ships we don’t own, carrying oil we don’t need, destined for allies who won’t help.″

       Trump’s name has been mentioned for various public offices, including mayor of New York City, governor and the presidency.

       Asked if Trump’s letter had anything to do with political aspirations, Klores said, ″Right now Donald Trump has no ambition to seek political office of any kind.″









						null
					

NEW YORK (AP) _ Real estate developer Donald J. Trump bought full-page ads in three major U.S. newspapers to say the United States should stop paying to defend countries that can afford to protect themselves...




					apnews.com
				




----------------------------------------------
Trumps Russian business dealings








						Trump says he has no financial interests in Russia. Here's a run-down of the decades his businesses have spent trying make his mark there.
					

Former President Donald Trump has a long, complex history of attempting to break into the real estate world in Russia.




					www.businessinsider.com.au


----------



## basilio (31 January 2021)

Trump can't retain lawyers who will defend him at the Senate impeachment trial because they won't run his "the election was stolen" line. 

Perhaps he will have to  run that argument and the evidence behind it himself in the impeachment trial  because it's clear no recognised lawyer wants to be disabarred for presenting a clear lie to a court ?

First on CNN: Five of Trump's impeachment defense attorneys leave team less than two weeks before trial​
_A person familiar with the departures told CNN that Trump wanted the attorneys to argue there was mass election fraud and that the election was stolen from him rather than focus on the legality of convicting a president after he's left office. Trump was not receptive to the discussions about how they should proceed in that regard__._










						First on CNN: Five of Trump's impeachment defense attorneys leave team less than two weeks before trial
					

Five of former President Donald Trump's impeachment defense team attorneys have stepped aside a little more than a week before his Senate trial is set to begin, according to people familiar with the case, amid a disagreement over his legal strategy.




					edition.cnn.com


----------



## satanoperca (31 January 2021)

Karma is a b----h.

Might teach people that lying does not bring positive results.


----------



## basilio (31 January 2021)

There is fight in the Republican Party between the Trump extremists who still fervently believe the election was stolen and the Son of God will rise again and what once seemed to the rational elements of the Party.

Check it out.








						'It's endemic': state-level Republican groups lead party's drift to extremism
					

Despite national failures at the ballot box, radicalised state parties are fighting for Trump’s election lies and defending QAnon followers




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## dutchie (3 February 2021)

I think it would be a good idea if the Democrats reinstated Trump as President so that their Impeachment trial was Constitutional.


----------



## rederob (3 February 2021)

dutchie said:


> I think it would be a good idea if the Democrats reinstated Trump as President so that their Impeachment trial was Constitutional.



Like letting the killing continue until his guilt is confirmed?  
That makes as much sense as his call of victory before all the votes were counted.
It defies common sense that a President could actually incite insurrection after an election was lost, yet remain unaccountable.
Trump's legal defence is full of holes, and relies on procedure rather than events.
However, many Republicans are willing to stand behind Trump on this matter, just as many deluded people stood by Hitler for over 15 years.


----------



## basilio (6 February 2021)

_It defies common sense that a President could actually incite insurrection after an election was lost, yet remain unaccountable.  Redrob_

It is going to be really interesting to see the replay of the Jan 6th attack on Congress at the Senate Impeachment trial next week.

Will Donald continue to say he made the "Perfect Speech" ? Who will ask the awkward questions about security around Congress before the riot ?  Will Donald stand up on oath and explain just why the election was stolen and how he is going to* prove* the dastardly behaviour of the Dominion and Smartmatic ?

And while he is at it will he  give a call out to his latest acolyte Q Anon Taylor Greene  who was helping  her friends breach Congress and round up the Squad ?


----------



## basilio (6 February 2021)

An on Topic post about the Trumping Tweeter, why he hasn't turned up on Parler and how he has managed to lay yet another ground for corruption to the 3,687 items already on the books. 















						House passes budget resolution, paving way for Covid relief – as it happened
					

House votes 219-209 along mostly party lines to approve resolution as amended by the Senate – follow all the latest politics news




					www.theguardian.com
				











						Parler Wanted Donald Trump On Its Site. Trump’s Company Wanted A Stake.
					

Documents seen by BuzzFeed News show that Parler offered Trump 40% of the company if he posted exclusively to the platform. The deal was never finalized.




					www.buzzfeednews.com


----------



## basilio (10 February 2021)

Following the impeachment trial of Donald Trump.
Live blog. Also attached the ongoing video from the Senate









						US Senate votes Trump impeachment trial is constitutional and will proceed – as it happened
					

Senate votes 56-44, with six Republican senators joining Democrats




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## basilio (16 February 2021)

How investigative journalists set up the mechanisms  to identify insurrectionists at the Capitol on Jan 6 th.









						How Open Source Experts Identified the US Capitol Rioters
					

Open source investigation teams around the world sprang into action as they watched a pro-Trump mob violently storm the US Capitol on January 6. A senior investigator with Bellingcat told GIJN how his team was able to scrape and preserve hundreds of social media videos from the attack, and...




					gijn.org


----------



## bellenuit (23 February 2021)

Perhaps we need a new thread on Trump post presidency, something like "Trump On Trial". I won't create one as Joe seems to have had enough of Trump related stuff. Anyway, this is probably going to be one of many on that topic.

*Supreme Court Denies Trump’s Final Bid to Block Release of Financial Records*










						Supreme Court Denies Trump’s Final Bid to Block Release of Tax Returns (Published 2021)
					

The former president’s accountants will give New York prosecutors the financial records he has spent years trying to shield.




					www.nytimes.com


----------



## basilio (19 March 2021)

bellenuit said:


> Perhaps we need a new thread on Trump post presidency, something like "Trump On Trial". I won't create one as Joe seems to have had enough of Trump related stuff. Anyway, this is probably going to be one of many on that topic.
> 
> *Supreme Court Denies Trump’s Final Bid to Block Release of Financial Records*
> 
> ...




A quick update on the _*Many Trials of Donald Trump.*_

Given the range and depth of his activities across business, personal life, tax, Government and everything else it isn't a surprise to realise citizen Donald Trump is now facing legal reckoning across the board.
Neat update here


----------



## bellenuit (23 March 2021)

It seems we must have a few unreasonable people on these forums.

Sidney Powell argues in new court filing that no reasonable people would believe her election fraud claims​








						Sidney Powell argues in new court filing that no reasonable people would believe her election fraud claims
					

Right-wing lawyer Sidney Powell is claiming in a new court filing that reasonable people wouldn't have believed as fact her assertions of fraud after the 2020 presidential election.




					edition.cnn.com
				




_Right-wing lawyer Sidney Powell is claiming in a new court filing that reasonable people wouldn't have believed as fact her assertions of fraud after the 2020 presidential election.

The election infrastructure company Dominion Voting Systems sued Powell for defamation after she pushed lawsuits and made appearances in conservative media on behalf of then-President Donald Trump to sow doubt about the 2020 election results. Dominion claims that Powell knew her election fraud accusations were false and hurtful to the company._


----------



## basilio (23 March 2021)

bellenuit said:


> It seems we must have a few unreasonable people on these forums.
> 
> Sidney Powell argues in new court filing that no reasonable people would believe her election fraud claims​
> 
> ...



That is absolutely  fricking  priceless. Where does this leave Trump ? Is he a totally unreasonable person for believing and repeatedly claiming the election was stolen ? *Or* on the other hand* is he a quite sane person who understood he lost the election but was determined to use every ounce of denial to undermine peoples confidence in the electoral system.*

And the same argument does for Sidney Powell.  I'm going to have to stock up on more popcorn if we are to properly enjoy this trial.


----------



## bellenuit (27 March 2021)

Fox News faces a second defamation suit over its election coverage.​








						Fox News Faces Second Defamation Suit Over Election Coverage (Published 2021)
					

Dominion Voting Systems, an election technology company, accused the channel of advancing lies that devastated its reputation and business.




					www.nytimes.com
				




_Fox News and its powerful owner, Rupert Murdoch, are facing a second major defamation suit over its coverage of the 2020 presidential election, a new front in the growing legal battle over media disinformation and its consequences.

Dominion Voting Systems, an election technology company that was at the center of a baseless pro-Trump conspiracy about rigged voting machines, filed a lawsuit on Friday that accused Fox News of advancing lies that devastated its reputation and business.

Dominion, which has requested a jury trial, is seeking at least $1.6 billion in damages. The lawsuit comes less than two months after Smartmatic, another election tech company, filed a $2.7 billion lawsuit against Mr. Murdoch’s Fox Corporation and named several Fox anchors, including Maria Bartiromo and Lou Dobbs, as defendants.

In a 139-page complaint filed in Delaware Superior Court, Dominion’s legal team, led by the prominent defamation firm Clare Locke, portrayed Fox as an active player in spreading falsehoods that Dominion had manipulated vote counts and manipulated its machines to benefit Joseph R. Biden Jr. in the election.

Those claims were false, but they were relentlessly pushed by Mr. Trump’s lawyers, Rudolph Giuliani and Sidney Powell, including during appearances on Fox News programs. In January, Dominion individually sued Mr. Giuliani and Ms. Powell for defamation.

“The truth matters,” Dominion’s lawyers write in the complaint. “Lies have consequences. Fox sold a false story of election fraud in order to serve its own commercial purposes, severely injuring Dominion in the process. If this case does not rise to the level of defamation by a broadcaster, then nothing does.”

Fox News did not immediately respond on Friday to a request for comment.

In February, Fox Corporation filed a motion to dismiss the Smartmatic lawsuit, arguing that the false claims of electoral fraud made on its channels were part of news coverage of a matter of significant public interest. “An attempt by a sitting president to challenge the result of an election is objectively newsworthy,” Fox’s legal team wrote in the motion._


----------



## bellenuit (16 April 2021)




----------



## basilio (13 August 2021)

So not even Fox news can stomach Trumps election lies. Or perhaps they don't want to face another law suit ?












						This week in US politics: Why 19 Republicans ignored Trump to give Biden his biggest win yet
					

US President Joe Biden delivered on a key election promise. But his battle to make it a reality isn't over yet.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## noirua (21 August 2021)

The United States probably needed Joe Biden as President straight after Barack Obama and need Donald Trump as President now. Unfortunately 'The Donald' didn't have enough to do as a peacetime President and screwed up his Presidency in the last year. President Biden has too much to handle even though he could never lie as much as his predecessor or have such doubtful credentials.​


----------



## basilio (9 September 2021)

Couldn't resist this story

*Comedy group The Chaser suspended by Twitter after impersonating Donald Trump                *

                   November 3, 2020






WRITTEN BY
Cam Smith
twitter: _@cams_myth_ 






Australian comedy troupe The Chaser has today been unverified and suspended by Twitter, removing the blue check mark used to identify celebrities and noteworthy individuals, after the group changed their profile to impersonate Donald Trump and urged the public not to vote for him.

“Don’t vote for me, I’m a massive idiot” the tweet claiming to be Donald Trump read, wracking up over 5000 likes and shares before the social network took action.

“We understand why twitter would do this,” said the Chaser’s website editor Cam Smith. “After all, it would not be out of the ordinary for Trump to tweet something so outlandish. If anything this would have been one of his more reasonable tweets, so we could see how people might get mixed up.”

“It’s impressive that twitter only took 20 minutes to unverify our tweet – given it took them almost four years to start fact checking the actual President. I guess that’s to be expected though, we all know comedians words are much more dangerous than those of the guy who controls 50% of the world’s nukes.”

The controversial comedy group is no stranger to trouble involving international politicians. In 2007, members of the group dressed as Osama Bin Laden were arrested outside the hotel of President George W. Bush after driving a fake Canadian motorcade into the APEC conference to demonstrate the futility of the event’s security.    

https://theshot.net.au/politics/the-chaser-suspended-by-twitter-after-impersonating-donald-trump/


----------



## noirua (18 October 2021)




----------



## orr (23 October 2021)

Donald Kirk Hartle....  of interest to the Nevada AG.
He's only been charged of course...

So what is it about the name Donald??? just coincidence??

And _Niorua ... _to reference Mark Twain 'It's no use aguing with the stupid, they'll bring you down to their level  and then beat you with their experience'


----------



## bellenuit (25 October 2021)

THE GOP'S VOTER FRAUD POSTER BOY WAS JUST CHARGED WITH VOTER FRAUD​








						Donald Hartle, the GOP's voter fraud poster boy, was just charged with voter fraud
					

Pro tip: It's best not to accuse people of voter fraud if you, yourself, are fraudulently voting.




					www.mic.com


----------



## basilio (25 October 2021)

bellenuit said:


> THE GOP'S VOTER FRAUD POSTER BOY WAS JUST CHARGED WITH VOTER FRAUD​
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yeah.  Like brilliant.  Look forward to seeing the full force of the electoral act brought for a calculated fraudulent vote. 

ByRafi Schwartz
10.23.2021

A Nevada business executive once touted as the literal poster child for the GOP’s Donald Trump-fueled claims of voter fraud in 2020 has been arrested and charged with two counts of, you guessed it, voter fraud.

“Voter fraud is rare, but when it happens it undercuts trust in our election system and will not be tolerated by my office,” Nevada Attorney General Aaron Ford said in a statement Thursday announcing the charges against Donald “Kirk” Hartle, a Las Vegas businessman whom this past November became the face of the state Republican Party’s baseless allegations of electoral malfeasance. “I want to stress that our office will pursue any credible allegations of voter fraud and will work to bring any offenders to justice.

Hartle first rose to political prominence nearly a year ago when, in the aftermath of Trump’s loss in Nevada, he claimed to have “discovered” a ballot cast by his long-deceased wife, Rosemarie. Shortly thereafter, his allegation that someone had evidently spoofed his wife’s signature to cast a ballot in the 2020 race was shared by the Nevada GOP’s official Twitter account, which described it as a “concrete case” of voting irregularity worthy of serious and immediate investigation.

Unfortunately for them, their wish came true. Per the criminal complaint against Hartle:


> DONALD KIRK HARTLE, has committed the crime of VOTING USING THE NAME OF ANOTHER PERSON, a category “D” felony in violation of NRS 293.775 [58476]; and VOTING MORE THAN ONCE AT SAME ELECTION, a category “D” felony in violation of NRS 293.780 [52523]. All of the acts alleged herein have been committed or completed on or between Oct. 26, 2020 and Oct. 30, 2020, by the above-named defendant, within the County of Clark, State of Nevada.



*Put simply, yes, it seems like someone did spoof Rosemarie’s ballot in the 2020 election: Hartle himself.* And it’s worth noting that Hartle isn’t a nobody in the world of Nevada conservative politics, either: He’s the CFO of the Ahern Family of Companies, a construction business that has twice been fined for violating COVID laws while hosting Trump rallies at its facilities. What’s more, earlier this year Hartle’s boss, Don Ahern, was named finance chairman for the Nevada Republican Party, and formerly served “as an instrumental member of President Donald J. Trump’s finance team” according to the party’s press release at the time.

*If convicted, Hartle faces up to four years in prison, and $5,000 in fines.*

The Nevada AG’s charges against Hartle come just days after Texas Lt. Governor Dan Patrick was forced to pay out $25,000 after publicly offering a bounty to anyone with information of voter fraud in the 2020 election — presumably to bolster Trump’s loud but unfounded claims of a “stolen election.” Paxton’s hefty payout was ultimately made to Eric Frank, a Pennsylvania poll worker who provided information of voter fraud committed by, oh yes, a registered Republican.


----------



## basilio (25 October 2021)

To rub more salt into the wounds of Republicians looking for electoral fraud.  

Texas’s voter fraud search found Republican fraud and nothing else​Following the 2020 presidential election, Dan Patrick went looking for voter fraud. Well, he sent _other people_ looking for it, at least. Patrick, the lieutenant governor of Texas and a Trump supporter who has played footsie with the former president’s conspiracy theories about stolen elections, set aside $1 million to pay anyone who provided evidence of voter fraud.

The week, he made his first payment, though it probably wasn’t to the kind of investigator he was hoping for. According to _The_ _Dallas Morning News_, Patrick cut a $25,000 check to Eric Frank, a Democrat and poll worker in Pennsylvania who turned in information that led to a voter fraud conviction — against a registered Republican.

Patrick has been touting his $1 million bounty for months, launching it just days after the 2020 election concluded and claiming that it would pay a minimum of $25,000 for any information that leads to an arrest and conviction. In a press release, Patrick advised potential whistleblowers across the country — not just in Texas — to provide evidence to local law enforcement and then claim their reward, which would be paid out of Patrick’s campaign funds.

Here’s the catch, though: Patrick never explained how a person could actually claim their bounty. The initial press release makes a promise of a payout, but there is little other information. It’s mostly just a formalized rambling screed about Democrats stealing elections. So when Frank came forward with evidence of voter fraud, it wasn’t clear how exactly he was going to get paid. He told _The_ _Dallas Morning News_ back in January that he was trying to figure out how to get in contact with the Patrick but to no avail. “I don’t know what avenue to take in order to request the reward,” he said at the time.

It wasn't until earlier this month that Frank was finally able to get into contact with Patrick’s office, at which point he submitted documentation to prove that he helped get someone convicted of voter fraud: a 72-year-old registered Republican who attempted to cast a ballot in his son’s name. With a conviction on the books, Patrick had no choice but to cut a check.

Frank is probably the last person that Patrick wanted to hear from. According to _The_ _Dallas Morning News_, Frank’s father is an election judge and his mother is a campaign manager for Pennsylvania Democrats. Frank himself is a poll worker and said he would have turned in anyone who attempted to commit voter fraud; it just so happened the person he did catch in the act was a Republican. *(It’s worth noting that Pennsylvania has charged five people with voter fraud, and four are registered Republicans.)*

The payout is a drop in the bucket for Patrick, who has more than $23 million in campaign funds — which makes it all the funnier that he paid the absolute minimum to Frank. According to Frank, he was told that he was the first and only person to ask for a payout, but wasn’t given more because they are saving the reward for “bigger fish.”









						Texas's voter fraud search found Republican fraud and nothing else
					

Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick offered up $1 million for evidence of voter fraud. The program's first find: illegal voting by a registered Republican.




					www.mic.com


----------



## noirua (25 October 2021)

Analysis: Some very good polling news for Donald Trump
					

Among all-important Iowa voters, former President Donald Trump notched his highest favorability rating ever, according to the latest Des Moines Register/Mediacom Iowa Poll.




					edition.cnn.com
				




Trump's position has some similarity with Boris Johnson in the UK although as is said often The Donald is on steroids. It doesn't matter how bad things get they are still there and eventually come back smelling of roses.  The electoral system is changing in Trump's favour as Republicans try to get the voting setup in some states back to where they were pre-coronavirus.


----------



## noirua (11 December 2021)

Trump starts speaking tour in Florida as shows fail to sell out
					

The tickets that have sold cost $100 each, and VIP and premium tickets were available for several thousand dollars




					www.independent.co.uk
				



The venture appears to be something of a fundraising and media opportunity for Mr Trump as he continues to tease a possible 2024 presidential run. Since leaving office, he has continued to give interviews to right wing media outlets, often repeating his fraudulent allegations that the 2020 election was stolen. 
Mr Trump is likely to use the tour to hawk his new SPAC-backed social media platform, "Truth Social," which is scheduled to launch sometime in the first quarter of 2022.


			https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_Donald_Trump


----------



## wayneL (12 December 2021)

Interesting to note that Dave Rubin has merged his Locals platform with Rumble, who in turn now have a merge or some sort of partnership with Truth Social.  Precis details I'm not 100% sure on.

Great that competing businesses with YoooTooob are starting to collect up a head of steam.

Bloody good I say.


----------



## moXJO (12 December 2021)

wayneL said:


> Interesting to note that Dave Rubin has merged his Locals platform with Rumble, who in turn now have a merge or some sort of partnership with Truth Social.  Precis details I'm not 100% sure on.
> 
> Great that competing businesses with YoooTooob are starting to collect up a head of steam.
> 
> Bloody good I say.



Monetisation is where any competing platforms will really gather steam.


----------



## bellenuit (14 December 2021)

*From memory, these same Fox presenters were blaming antifa for the attack in the days after January 6th. They knew damn well who it was.*​​Fox Hosts Begged Trump to Stop the January 6 Attack on the Capitol​








						Fox Hosts Begged Trump to Stop the January 6 Attack on the Capitol
					

Turns out, some of former President Trump’s biggest, most powerful fans/informal advisors at Fox News knew he did something terrible on January 6. And so did his family. And members of Congress. And Trump administration officials. They knew he was enabling the riot. How do we know this? Because...




					www.thebulwark.com


----------



## noirua (26 April 2022)

Trump will not return to Twitter even as Elon Musk purchases platform, will begin using his own TRUTH Social
					

EXCLUSIVE: Former President Trump told Fox News that he will not return to Twitter, even if Elon Musk purchases the social media company and reinstates his account, and instead, will use his own TRUTH Social as the sole platform for his voice.




					www.foxnews.com


----------



## noirua (26 April 2022)

Truth Social
					

Truth Social is America's "Big Tent" social media platform that encourages an open, free, and honest global conversation without discriminating on the basis of political ideology.




					truthsocial.com
				











						‎Truth Social
					

‎Follow the Truth!  What exactly is Truth Social's "Big Tent" approach?  Think of a giant outdoor event tent at your best friend's wedding. Who's there? The combination of multiple families from all over the United States, and the world. Uncle Jim from Atlanta is a proud libertarian. Aunt Kellie...



					apps.apple.com
				




Access via VPN set on 'the Americas'. VPN is free and easy to set via the Opera browser. Alternative browsers are: Aloha, Epic and UR.


----------



## noirua (2 June 2022)

Trump to 'fight even harder' after Sussmann acquittal, signaling 2024 run
					

EXCLUSIVE: Former President Trump said the revelations out of the trial of former Clinton campaign lawyer Michael Sussmann and his acquittal make him “want to fight even harder,” warning that “if we don’t win, our country is ruined.”




					www.foxnews.com


----------



## noirua (2 July 2022)

Poll Results Show President Trump Is Crushing the GOP 2024 Field and This Was Before Roe v. Wade Was Overturned
					

The results of a recent poll show President Trump alone at the top of GOP candidates for President in 2024.  A  June 2022 McLaughlin & Associates Survey shows President Trump way ahead of all other candidates in the race for President in 2024. (One observation is that with no one even close, GOP...




					www.thegatewaypundit.com


----------



## noirua (2 July 2022)

President Trump - 45th - rides again.


----------



## noirua (31 August 2022)

This image contained in a court filing by the Department of Justice on Aug. 30, 2022, and redacted by in part by the FBI, shows a photo of documents seized during the Aug. 8 search by the FBI of former President Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida. The Justice Department says it has uncovered efforts to obstruct its investigation into the discovery of classified records at former President Donald Trump's Florida estate. (Department of Justice via AP)


----------



## PZ99 (2 September 2022)

noirua said:


> Poll Results Show President Trump Is Crushing the GOP 2024 Field and This Was Before Roe v. Wade Was Overturned
> 
> 
> The results of a recent poll show President Trump alone at the top of GOP candidates for President in 2024.  A  June 2022 McLaughlin & Associates Survey shows President Trump way ahead of all other candidates in the race for President in 2024. (One observation is that with no one even close, GOP...
> ...



I think Trump has just blown up his chances with this...









						Donald Trump says he plans to pardon US Capitol attack participants if elected
					

‘I mean full pardons with an apology to many,’ says former president as January 6 rioter sentenced to 10 years for assault




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## noirua (7 November 2022)

Republican mega-donor Ken Griffin says it's time to 'move on' from Trump, backs DeSantis for 2024
					

Ken Griffin, a GOP mega-donor, said it is time Republicans move on from former President Donald Trump. He said he likes Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis for 2024, should be run for president.




					www.foxnews.com


----------



## Knobby22 (8 November 2022)

noirua said:


> Republican mega-donor Ken Griffin says it's time to 'move on' from Trump, backs DeSantis for 2024
> 
> 
> Ken Griffin, a GOP mega-donor, said it is time Republicans move on from former President Donald Trump. He said he likes Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis for 2024, should be run for president.
> ...



Nicknamed "Trump with brains".


----------



## The Triangle (20 November 2022)

Well, Trump's had 2 years to think about the first tweet back from suspension... Nothing yet, but there are a lot of eyeballs glued to twitter right now waiting on the orange man to tweet.   If anything is going to break twitter or the internet it's going to be a flurry of Trump tweets.

His followers obviously wiped to zero but climbing fast.  I took two screenshots about 10m apart and he added a quarter million followers.


----------

