# A white perspective of Racism and White Privilege in the US



## basilio (9 April 2019)

This is an very thoughtful insight into how the US treats blacks. Well worth taking the time to read in full.
Thoughts ?

*                             Privileged *
When the police break your teammate’s leg, you’d think it would wake you up a little.

When they arrest him on a New York street, throw him in jail for the night, and leave him with a season-ending injury, you’d think it would sink in. You’d think you’d know there was more to the story.

You’d think.
But nope.
I still remember my reaction when I first heard what happened to Thabo. It was 2015, late in the season. Thabo and I were teammates on the Hawks, and we’d flown into New York late after a game in Atlanta. When I woke up the next morning, our team group text was going nuts. Details were still hazy, but guys were saying, _Thabo hurt his leg? During an arrest? Wait — he spent the night in jail?!_ Everyone was pretty upset and confused. 

Well, almost everyone. My response was….. different. I’m embarrassed to admit it.

Which is why I want to share it today.
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/kyle-korver-utah-jazz-nba


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## wayneL (9 April 2019)

Oh God! I wanted to self harm after reading that shyte


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## basilio (10 April 2019)

wayneL said:


> Oh God! I wanted to self harm after reading that shyte




That's so sad... but totally predictable  .. We all know how you roll Wayne.

Of course I can empathize with you.  Whenever I read any of the poisonous dribble posted by/about Saint Thomas Robinson and co I feel twitchy and want to reach for something solid .

___________________________________________

But is there anyone else  (who doesn't froth at the mouth at the suggestion that the US might have "a teensy weensy" problem with racism)  who has read the story and have a thoughtful comment to make about the content ?


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## wayneL (11 April 2019)

I think it's you with the racism problem, bas.

Think about it.


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## wayneL (11 April 2019)




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## SirRumpole (11 April 2019)

basilio said:


> That's so sad... but totally predictable  .. We all know how you roll Wayne.
> 
> Of course I can empathize with you.  Whenever I read any of the poisonous dribble posted by/about Saint Thomas Robinson and co I feel twitchy and want to reach for something solid .
> 
> ...




Incidents like that happen everywhere I'm afraid, outback Australia for one.

Sometimes it's deserved, other times not. Better police training is is one solution, but it should not be a license to misbehave if you are part of a minority group.


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## basilio (11 April 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Incidents like that happen everywhere I'm afraid, outback Australia for one.
> 
> Sometimes it's deserved, other times not. Better police training is is one solution, but it should not be a license to misbehave if you are part of a minority group.




*Actually the basbetballer who had his leg broken never misbehaved. *Whatever reason the police were called and ended up breaking his leg was specious. One can't even say that he somehow "deserved" it because he was "doing something wrong".  

_A few months later, a jury found Thabo not guilty on all charges. He settled with the city over the NYPD’s use of force against him. And then the story just sort of….. disappeared. It fell away from the news. Thabo had surgery and went through rehab. Pretty soon, another NBA season began — and we were back on the court again. 
_
Did you read the full story Rumpy ?


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## basilio (11 April 2019)

Bit more from Privilege

_But as disgraceful as it is that we have to deal with racist hecklers in NBA arenas in 2019? The truth is, you could argue that that kind of racism is “easier” to deal with. 


Because at least in those cases, the racism is loud and clear. There’s no ambiguity — not in the act itself, and thankfully not in the response: we throw the guy out of the building, and then we ban him for life.


But in many ways the more dangerous form of racism isn’t that loud and stupid kind. It isn’t the kind that announces itself when it walks into the arena. It’s the quiet and subtle kind. The kind that almost hides itself in plain view. It’s the person who does and says all the “right” things in public: They’re perfectly friendly when they meet a person of color. They’re very polite. But in private? Well….. they sort of wish that everyone would stop making everything “about race” all the time.

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/kyle-korver-utah-jazz-nba_


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## SirRumpole (11 April 2019)

basilio said:


> *Actually the basbetballer who had his leg broken never misbehaved. *Whatever reason the police were called and ended up breaking his leg was specious. One can't even say that he somehow "deserved" it because he was "doing something wrong".
> 
> _A few months later, a jury found Thabo not guilty on all charges. He settled with the city over the NYPD’s use of force against him. And then the story just sort of….. disappeared. It fell away from the news. Thabo had surgery and went through rehab. Pretty soon, another NBA season began — and we were back on the court again.
> _
> Did you read the full story Rumpy ?




Yes I did. It's a sad case, but it happened elsewhere. There is also this stuff going on in this country, not just racial violence, but police violence in general that may or may not be reported.


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## wayneL (11 April 2019)

Back in 1991,  a friend of mine threw a grand opening party at his new real estate office, it was pretty tame but the grog was flowing freely. One of the guests, a friend of mine (a local middle aged businessman),  noticed a couple of plain clothes coppers in their car in the carpark. Being friends with some of the copper brass, hw wentover to say gday.

Coppers told him to F off, which my friend verbally protested  about, no physical moves whatsoever. Coppers got out, worked him over right in front of us all, chucked him in the car and then really belted the crap out of him on the way to the nick... broke teeth and ribs.

Released without charge later. It was a disgraceful display of unfair treatment by the cops

Here's the damning thing,  my friend was bla.... errr, white.

Unfortunately, there was no media mileage for being a whitefella.


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## Knobby22 (11 April 2019)

I know a guy who has a business in the USA. He is of Russian background, makes electronics.
Anyway he and his wife lived there for years but he didn't join the local church and he employed many Europeans in his factory. this meant he was not protected by the community.

His house was raided a few times but as he was honest nothing was found.
One day he was driving home the cops waved him over and got him to follow them to the station.
they demanded $200,000 or they said they would pin something on him and he would rot in jail. he paid up.  He decided to move to Australia.

They call themselves the land of the free. Not really true.
They are becoming another tin pot Latin American country.
Ruled by the very wealthy, corrupt police, gun culture etc.


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## SirRumpole (11 April 2019)

wayneL said:


> Back in 1991,  a friend of mine threw a grand opening party at his new real estate office, it was pretty tame but the grog was flowing freely. One of the guests, a friend of mine (a local middle aged businessman),  noticed a couple of plain clothes coppers in their car in the carpark. Being friends with some of the copper brass, hw wentover to say gday.
> 
> Coppers told him to F off, which my friend verbally protested  about, no physical moves whatsoever. Coppers got out, worked him over right in front of us all, chucked him in the car and then really belted the crap out of him on the way to the nick... broke teeth and ribs.
> 
> ...





Good of "you all" to let your mate get bashed.


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## Knobby22 (11 April 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Good of "you all" to let your mate get bashed.



It's how the US works. Why that poor Aussie girl got killed.
Don't get involved.


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## wayneL (11 April 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Good of "you all" to let your mate get bashed.



What would have been your suggestion, Horace? Interfere wirh the police in the "execution if their duty"? Bash the coppers to death and hide the bodies? Phone channel 9 to get their cameras down to Beaudesert at 11PM (pre mobiles bro)?

Pullleeeze!


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## Knobby22 (11 April 2019)

My son who is 15 showed me this.
Black groundhog day.


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## SirRumpole (11 April 2019)

wayneL said:


> What would have been your suggestion, Horace? Interfere wirh the police in the "execution if their duty"? Bash the coppers to death and hide the bodies? Phone channel 9 to get their cameras down to Beaudesert at 11PM (pre mobiles bro)?
> 
> Pullleeeze!




You said they were plain clothed, so according to you they could have been hoodlums bashing up your mate.


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## sptrawler (11 April 2019)

Is this thread going to lead anywhere?
Are we going to have an Australian class action against the U.S police, maybe we could bundle a deal and have one against Trump as well.
Jeez give me a breack, as if we don't have enough problems in Australia, without trying to fix other Countries problems. Some people have way too much time on their hands. IMO
Maybe the thread could be, "people with an interest in discussing the U.S racial problems, PM me"


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## wayneL (11 April 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> You said they were plain clothed, so according to you they could have been hoodlums bashing up your mate.



We knew they were coppers,  that's why my friend went over, I would've thought that was clear. 

Handcuffs were a further clue.


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## SirRumpole (11 April 2019)

wayneL said:


> We knew they were coppers,  that's why my friend went over, I would've thought that was clear.
> 
> Handcuffs were a further clue.




Well without knowing the details of the case, maybe the coppers thought he was going to blow their cover. He was told to shove off and had the chance. What came afterwards though was unjustified. Did the victim make a complaint ? As I said he had plenty of witnesses.


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## wayneL (11 April 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Well without knowing the details of the case, maybe the coppers thought he was going to blow their cover. He was told to shove off and had the chance. What came afterwards though was unjustified. Did the victim make a complaint ? As I said he had plenty of witnesses.



Yes, complaints made. It was an exercise in futility. This is Queensland after all


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## basilio (12 April 2019)

I wasn't intending to discuss the reality of bent and nasty cops in this thread.They are ubiquitous. Like most other people I can offer my own direct experiences.

The topic was about discussing how Kyle Kover came to appreciate that the treatment given to his overwhelmingly black  NBA teammates by cops or abusive fans was essentially driven by race.
*
They were black and that was sufficient to abuse or beat them.
*
But the interesting part of his story was the realisation that even when he supported his  teammates he was still an observer - not a participant.  He could walk away from the unfairness. They couldn't.


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## Humid (12 April 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Is this thread going to lead anywhere?
> Are we going to have an Australian class action against the U.S police, maybe we could bundle a deal and have one against Trump as well.
> Jeez give me a breack, as if we don't have enough problems in Australia, without trying to fix other Countries problems. Some people have way too much time on their hands. IMO
> Maybe the thread could be, "people with an interest in discussing the U.S racial problems, PM me"




Man with 10000 posts berates people for having too much time on their hands lol


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## Humid (12 April 2019)

wayneL said:


> Back in 1991,  a friend of mine threw a grand opening party at his new real estate office, it was pretty tame but the grog was flowing freely. One of the guests, a friend of mine (a local middle aged businessman),  noticed a couple of plain clothes coppers in their car in the carpark. Being friends with some of the copper brass, hw wentover to say gday.
> 
> Coppers told him to F off, which my friend verbally protested  about, no physical moves whatsoever. Coppers got out, worked him over right in front of us all, chucked him in the car and then really belted the crap out of him on the way to the nick... broke teeth and ribs.
> 
> ...




The only black person there was serving the drinks.....


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## Sdajii (12 April 2019)

basilio said:


> Bit more from Privilege
> 
> _But as disgraceful as it is that we have to deal with racist hecklers in NBA arenas in 2019? The truth is, you could argue that that kind of racism is “easier” to deal with.
> 
> ...




Amazing. This sort of race baiting, divisive, fear-mongering nonsense is disgusting. It is designed to make people suspicious of any white person even if they behave perfectly. It is literally designed to make people think that if a white person does everything white, it is a sign that we should distrust them. We should suspect that people who appear to be doing nothing wrong are terrible people when we can't see them, based on the fact that we never see them doing anything wrong.

It's evil of people to come up with this stuff and pathetic of people to see and spread it.


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## sptrawler (12 April 2019)

Humid said:


> Man with 10000 posts berates people for having too much time on their hands lol



Yep 10,000 in 10 years, that's 1000 per year.
You have managed 400 in a month. lol


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## wayneL (13 April 2019)

Humid said:


> The only black person there was serving the drinks.....



What a really stupid comment.


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## Humid (13 April 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Yep 10,000 in 10 years, that's 1000 per year.
> You have managed 400 in a month. lol




Not as stupid as this and you liked it


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## sptrawler (13 April 2019)

Humid said:


> Not as stupid as this and you liked it



Yep you have posted 403 posts, and not one of them related to shares, maybe trolling is your bag.


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## Humid (13 April 2019)

At least I know what year it is


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## sptrawler (13 April 2019)

Humid said:


> At least I know what year it is



I told you this dumb thread will go nowhere, all it has done is encourage you to dribble.lol


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## basilio (13 April 2019)

Sdajii said:


> Amazing. This sort of race baiting, divisive, fear-mongering nonsense is disgusting. It is designed to make people suspicious of any white person even if they behave perfectly. It is literally designed to make people think that if a white person does everything white, it is a sign that we should distrust them. We should suspect that people who appear to be doing nothing wrong are terrible people when we can't see them, based on the fact that we never see them doing anything wrong.
> 
> It's evil of people to come up with this stuff and pathetic of people to see and spread it.




You can certainly twist anything into whatever pretzel you want want can't you Sdajii ?
There was a lot more depth to the story than you appear interested in noticing. 
Kyle was simply saying that loud mouthed arrogant racists are obvious. But people who just simply agree or don't care about the "loud mouthed racists"  and say nothing are part of the problem.

Why ?  Just think about how the AFL has changed over time to the abuse of aboriginal players. In the past opposition players, sometimes teammates, many times people in the crowd would make the most abusive and racist comments. 

*And no one said anything.*  It was seen as "just some  ignorant hoons" . "Just ignore them " "Shut up and focus on the game". So for years and years this behaviour continued in effect condoned by the AFL and everyone else who found it safer and easier to keep mum.

Today it is a different story. If someone does make a racist comment, throws a banana at player, calls them a monkey *the AFL, the players, the teams have decided to call out this behavior. * To say that it is unacceptable, to shame this racism out of the game. 

It is led by players who in the past might have felt uncomfortable about standing up to this abuse. I suggest it is this support and resistance that Kyle is saying is required.

What do you think ?


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## Humid (13 April 2019)

sptrawler said:


> I told you this dumb thread will go nowhere, all it has done is encourage you to dribble.lol




But have I been dribbling a month or a year old man?


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## sptrawler (13 April 2019)

Humid said:


> But have I been dribbling a month or a year old man?



There you go, 405 posts, not one of them has a modicum of independent thought. 
Not one iota of intelligent conversation added, be it debate, knowledge or fiscal observation, just 405 posts of snipping.
I guess the good thing is, while you are trolling me, you are leaving someone else alone.


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## Humid (13 April 2019)

405 with 127 likes
How’s your average? Lol
Actually after your last attempt at math leave it alone!


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## sptrawler (13 April 2019)

Humid said:


> 405 with 127 likes
> How’s your average? Lol
> Actually after your last attempt at math leave it alone!



Yes, I have actually given you quite a lot of likes, to try and encourage you to become more positive, I assume others have followed suite.
It obviously hasn't worked.


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## Humid (13 April 2019)

There you go
I always thought it was your fat fingers trying to hit quote


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## sptrawler (13 April 2019)

Humid said:


> There you go
> I always thought it was your fat fingers trying to hit quote



Yes, I've been told I have hands like feet. 

We will have to catch up for a beer, when I get back, maybe discuss the election result.


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## Sdajii (13 April 2019)

basilio said:


> You can certainly twist anything into whatever pretzel you want want can't you Sdajii ?
> There was a lot more depth to the story than you appear interested in noticing.
> Kyle was simply saying that loud mouthed arrogant racists are obvious. But people who just simply agree or don't care about the "loud mouthed racists"  and say nothing are part of the problem.
> 
> ...




Noticed how I commented on the clear, obvious facts and truth, you accused me of 'twisting things into pretzels, and you proceeded to twist up a very impressive pretzel?

You literally posted something which is literally and blatantly designed to make people suspicious of people who behave perfectly and do nothing wrong, and make them believe that people doing bad things hidden away where no one can see and no evidence can exist is a common, normal thing.

This is race baiting, this is divisive. This is fear mongering. This is blatant. Your defense of it is 'pretzel twisting'. Calling it what it blatantly is is not pretzel twisting.

You are a sheep. What you mindlessly follow is evil.


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## SirRumpole (13 April 2019)

Sdajii said:


> You literally posted something which is literally and blatantly designed to make people suspicious of people who behave perfectly and do nothing wrong, and make them believe that people doing bad things hidden away where no one can see and no evidence can exist is a common, normal thing.




"A common normal thing ?"

How common things like police violence is we don't really if as you say there is no evidence. It certainly does happen as evidenced by the incidents that are trapped on CCTV, phones and webcams.

I'd say there has to be a lot more happening that those that are randomly caught. Even a former police officer was assaulted in a police station, so who knows how many more cases there are.

In deference to all the good cops out there, it's in their interests that such things are exposed and the perpetrators thrown out of the force so that the law abiding public can have confidence that when they come in contact with the police it will be to their benefit.


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## wayneL (13 April 2019)

I'm thinking how this will play out in 20-40 years time.

Sometime therein, I will have given up the ghost and discovered if there is a hereafter, or not, as the case may be. Either way I'm glad I won't be around, or have children to worry about.

However, I will probably live long enough to witness the cultural suicide of the West, by either toxic swing of the pendulum.


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## basilio (13 April 2019)

Sdajii said:


> Noticed how I commented on the clear, obvious facts and truth, you accused me of 'twisting things into pretzels, and you proceeded to twist up a very impressive pretzel?
> 
> You literally posted something which is literally and blatantly designed to make people suspicious of people who behave perfectly and do nothing wrong, and make them believe that people doing bad things hidden away where no one can see and no evidence can exist is a common, normal thing.
> 
> ...




Did you actually read the whole story Sdajii ? It probably doesn't matter .  You seem quite determined to condemn Kove and I to the fires of eternal damnation for daring to suggest there is racism, overt and covert in the US and also Australia.

Koves comments about people who don't scream abuse at blacks in public but privately have another view is not unrealistic. He would have made his comments from observations of the many people he mixes with: NBA managers, players, supporters, friends whoever. There is nothing unusual in such behavior.

I offered a practical example of how Aussie Rules sport has evolved in its treatment of indigenous players. Again there is nothing controversial about these facts. Any investigations into public and private behavior  of footballers will demonstrate this reality. There are past players who will acknowledge, with shame, that they abused black players all the time when they ere on the field.

But the critical point I made and which Kove was trying to make was *"When will white people stand up and call out racist abuse  ?"  *I suggest that this type of remonstration has now started to happen. Clubs are prepared to ban their own supporters who heap ugly racist abuse on indigenous players. 

Of course there is push back. We still have the cries of "Political correctness gone mad" " For Christs sake it was just a joke !" or "Bloody sanctamomious wusses.." Yep. Heard them all.

*But until today I hadn't heard I was a sheep mindlessly following an evil something... *Always a first time and it often seems to happen on ASF.


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## Knobby22 (13 April 2019)

Don't worry Basilio, Sdajji  pretty much calls the whole world as well as many individuals on this site sheep, which is quite ironic as its obvious that he is the one easily led.


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## Sdajii (13 April 2019)

basilio said:


> Did you actually read the whole story Sdajii ? It probably doesn't matter .  You seem quite determined to condemn Kove and I to the fires of eternal damnation for daring to suggest there is racism, overt and covert in the US and also Australia




You destroy your own credibility with anyone of moderate intelligence more more by using that obvious a strawman. I never did such things.



> Koves comments about people who don't scream abuse at blacks in public but privately have another view is not unrealistic. He would have made his comments from observations of the many people he mixes with: NBA managers, players, supporters, friends whoever. There is nothing unusual in such behavior.




I am not denying such things exist. Of course they do. But to scaremonger and encourage people to see that in all people who act like good people is a terrible thing to do.



> I offered a practical example of how Aussie Rules sport has evolved in its treatment of indigenous players. Again there is nothing controversial about these facts. Any investigations into public and private behavior  of footballers will demonstrate this reality. There are past players who will acknowledge, with shame, that they abused black players all the time when they ere on the field.




So?



> But the critical point I made and which Kove was trying to make was *"When will white people stand up and call out racist abuse  ?"  *I suggest that this type of remonstration has now started to happen. Clubs are prepared to ban their own supporters who heap ugly racist abuse on indigenous players.




This already happens, constantly, to an extreme extent, to the point where people are seeing racism almost literally everywhere, where almost literally everything is considered racist, where racism is seen so ubiquitously that the term is becoming almost meaningless. To the point where white people are considered racist for literally doing nothing and where in many cases you can be as racist as you like to white people with complete impunity and the white person must accept it or themselves be considered racist. Where we see black police shooting black criminals in cases where it's clearly necessary, and the (predominantly white) media telling everyone it was a white policeman shooting an innocent black man. Where despite this, white people like you still ask this question as though it's not happening. To the point where 'affirmative action' is absolutely extreme. To the point where the pendulum has swung to the opposite to a ridiculous extent. Where we turn a blind eye to a black national government slaughtering and stealing the land of white people. To the extent that current day European governments vote to try to pay repatriations to those they conquered generations ago despite no other race in the world doing this. The answer to your question of "When?" is "Some time before now!"

*



			But until today I hadn't heard I was a sheep mindlessly following an evil something...
		
Click to expand...


*


> Always a first time and it often seems to happen on ASF.




Well, today you've been told, and it's sad that you still can't see it.

Accusing innocent people of being guilty, or making people paranoid, is not the way forward towards the goal of everyone getting along well.


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## moXJO (13 April 2019)

I'm not sure why people think this is a western only problem.
The majority of countries I have visited have huge amounts of racism,  even NZ.
Some Thais I know didn't know what racism was as they were all surrounded by other Thais. But even they have formed opinions of other races. Same with Chinese, Indian the list goes on. 

In Australia I have found it to have jumped to the better by a  huge margin (since the early 80s). 

It has probably been the last decade where it feels slightly disjointed again. But we are leap years ahead of others.


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## Sdajii (14 April 2019)

moXJO said:


> I'm not sure why people think this is a western only problem.
> The majority of countries I have visited have huge amounts of racism,  even NZ.
> Some Thais I know didn't know what racism was as they were all surrounded by other Thais. But even they have formed opinions of other races. Same with Chinese, Indian the list goes on.




Are you serious?

I was in Bangkok about a month ago, and Indian at the place I was staying was ripping off other hotel guests, refusing to pay for his room, and registered the web address of the hotel name (I was astonished the owners hadn't already done it). The police were called in to deal with it, I speak some Thai and they asked me to translate and also offer some legal advice (I am not a lawyer or anything resembling one, Thailand is just a really bizarre place sometimes). While we were at it, the owners said (at first in Thai and then in English so the Indian could understand) that Thais have a saying: "If you find an Indian and a snake in your home, kill the Indian first". The police laughed and agreed. Understandably the Indian protested and cried racism, but Thais are pretty much universally racist against Indians because Indians are so prone to trying to rip Thai people off. Thai people are pretty much all racist against Chinese, Africans and others. Racism is almost literally a part of the national policy in relation to the people of the east (this land was conquered by Thailand, the people are not ethnically Thai and don't have the same language or culture, and official policy keeps them as underclass. It was previously direct government policy and it is now just blatant but not officially racist). I don't know where you found Thai people who don't know what racism is, but if they do exist I'm impressed you found them. Thai culture is extremely polite, to the point of lying to save face of yourself or the person your talking to being the norm, so quite likely you spoke to Thai people who just pretended that racism was an alien concept because they thought it's what you wanted to hear or would respect. I've spent the majority of the last 5 years in Asia and in every country I've been to racism is openly accepted as normal by most people.

The west is the only place where racism is such a taboo. The west is just about the only place where you'll find people feeling bad about being racist (and apparently only white people can be racist, etc etc). White people are possibly the least racist people in the world, certainly among the least, and have the largest taboo on racism, almost being unique in having a taboo at all. Interestingly, 5 years ago Asians heavily looked up to white people, but that is rapidly disappearing. Apparently if a race continually berates itself and indulges in self loathing and insult, other people figure they must be as bad as they say they are.


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## moXJO (14 April 2019)

Sdajii said:


> Are you serious?
> 
> I was in Bangkok about a month ago, and Indian at the place I was staying was ripping off other hotel guests, refusing to pay for his room, and registered the web address of the hotel name (I was astonished the owners hadn't already done it). The police were called in to deal with it, I speak some Thai and they asked me to translate and also offer some legal advice (I am not a lawyer or anything resembling one, Thailand is just a really bizarre place sometimes). While we were at it, the owners said (at first in Thai and then in English so the Indian could understand) that Thais have a saying: "If you find an Indian and a snake in your home, kill the Indian first". The police laughed and agreed. Understandably the Indian protested and cried racism, but Thais are pretty much universally racist against Indians because Indians are so prone to trying to rip Thai people off. Thai people are pretty much all racist against Chinese, Africans and others. Racism is almost literally a part of the national policy in relation to the people of the east (this land was conquered by Thailand, the people are not ethnically Thai and don't have the same language or culture, and official policy keeps them as underclass. It was previously direct government policy and it is now just blatant but not officially racist). I don't know where you found Thai people who don't know what racism is, but if they do exist I'm impressed you found them. Thai culture is extremely polite, to the point of lying to save face of yourself or the person your talking to being the norm, so quite likely you spoke to Thai people who just pretended that racism was an alien concept because they thought it's what you wanted to hear or would respect. I've spent the majority of the last 5 years in Asia and in every country I've been to racism is openly accepted as normal by most people.
> 
> The west is the only place where racism is such a taboo. The west is just about the only place where you'll find people feeling bad about being racist (and apparently only white people can be racist, etc etc). White people are possibly the least racist people in the world, certainly among the least, and have the largest taboo on racism, almost being unique in having a taboo at all. Interestingly, 5 years ago Asians heavily looked up to white people, but that is rapidly disappearing. Apparently if a race continually berates itself and indulges in self loathing and insult, other people figure they must be as bad as they say they are.



Lampang, out country. In the cities they hate a few races. They just think its normal.Indians are well hated there.

The reason being that there were no other races they had seen in the area. Only all thais. As soon as they came into contact with other races they instantly understood racism. Indians and Chinese were top of the list.


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## Sdajii (14 April 2019)

moXJO said:


> Lampang, out country. In the cities they hate a few races. They just think its normal.Indians are well hated there.
> 
> The reason being that there were no other races they had seen in the area. Only all thais. As soon as they came into contact with other races they instantly understood racism. Indians and Chinese were top of the list.




Most people in Lampang are not Thai (obviously they are Thai by nationality but not ethnicity/race or culture). That region of Thailand is pretty multiracial, and Thais are a minority there. As an example, Hmong are pretty common out in that region. Ask the locals what they think about the Hmong race (if you can get an honest answer). I've never found any racial group in the same region as Hmong which didn't overall have an unfavourable view of the Hmong. Even the Hmong I've spoken to don't seem happy about being Hmong. In remote areas where everyone is local (they may be multiracial areas but all of them have been there for many generations), where it is rare to see white people and everyone runs outside to see me, the locals warn me to beware of the Hmong and clearly don't trust them.

I haven't been to Lampang, and maybe it's an anomalous community, I'm not saying you didn't encounter this, but Thais (or Asians) without racism are very rare. Actually, people without racism are pretty rare other than among white people.

Humans are born with an inherent disposition towards racism (even animals are). Political correctness denies it, but reality confirms it.


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## moXJO (14 April 2019)

Sdajii said:


> I haven't been to Lampang, and maybe it's an anomalous community, I'm not saying you didn't encounter this, but Thais (or Asians) without racism are very rare. Actually, people without racism are pretty rare other than among white people.





No they were racist and more patriotic then the yanks. They just hadn't met any other races outside of their communities. Thus were unaware of what racism was. Social media is changing that though, as these poorer areas have Internet now. That video of the chinese tourist taking a dump at the thai temple sure as hell didn't help.


They didn't understand what racism was till they traveled out of the area (its mostly farming in this spot). They were just not exposed enough to other races to form opinions.

Thais love their country more then any other place I've been.
Some of the nicest people on the planet there as well. Makes up for the scammers in the cities. I'll take some photos next time I'm passing through.





> Thailand is just a really bizarre place sometimes




Yeah the gik bashings are crazy stuff. Interesting place.


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## Sdajii (15 April 2019)

moXJO said:


> No they were racist and more patriotic then the yanks. They just hadn't met any other races outside of their communities. Thus were unaware of what racism was. Social media is changing that though, as these poorer areas have Internet now. That video of the chinese tourist taking a dump at the thai temple sure as hell didn't help.
> 
> 
> They didn't understand what racism was till they traveled out of the area (its mostly farming in this spot). They were just not exposed enough to other races to form opinions.
> ...




You might be mixing up race and nationality? That area is quite multiethnic. There are multiple races in China for example, and the Chinese are racist against Chinese of other races.

As a nationality, yes, Thais are quite patriotic to the country of Thailand, but most Thai (nationality) people are not Thai (race/culture). Even in a small farming area in that region, they'll definitely be aware of the Hmong and will dislike them (unless you were dealing with people who are Hmong, in which case they will be aware that the others don't like them). All of the many races in Thailand are still Thai by nationality and most are pretty patriotic, but still racist against each other.

As I said, I don't know about the specific place you went to and maybe it's an unusual exception, but I've been to all regions of Thailand and most provinces, and if you've found people unaware of there being multiple races it's extremely unusual. Not saying it doesn't exist in Thailand but I've never seen or heard of it. The people in that region only a few generations are weren't part of the same kingdom, race or culture as Thais (like, the race/culture/'national' identity of the people in 'Bangkok' was not the same). The whole area which is now Thailand wasn't even a united country until fairly recently, it was made up of many seperate kingdoms/empires, each racially different, they all had wars with each other, they all had separate identities, they don't identify as the same race as the original race in Bangkok (ie where Bangkok now is, which of course Thai people don't even call Bangkok today), although the Thai (nationality) people in Bangkok have recently become very ethnically diverse. When I first came to Bangkok years ago I couldn't tell the difference between all the different races but now within what used to just look like Thai people to me I can see many different races. It's funny, when I was first in Thailand I didn't even generally notice the difference between Thais (the race native to the Siam region), Chinese, Burmese, Khmer (Cambodians) etc, and now they look completely different. Thai (nationality) people are much better at it than I am or ever will be.


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## wayneL (15 April 2019)

Being a keen proponent of judging individuals on the qualities of personality etc, this thread has made me that work closely interactions between the races in my area which happens to be quite multi-racial and multicultural ( and yes there is an important Distinction there).

In the last 10 years I can only remember one incident which could potentially have being viewed as racist, though no actual racist comments were made. It was simply a white man abusing a brown man but I suspect that race actually had nothing, or very little to do with it.

I just don't see racism happening. What I do see is very Working Class men pretty much treating our brown and black friends how they find them, if they are polite then our bogun friends treat these people with the normal respect accorded to anyone irrespective of their race.

I know the OP was regarding the United States, but as far as Australia is concerned I just don't see any real racism, anywhere.


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## Sdajii (15 April 2019)

wayneL said:


> Being a keen proponent of judging individuals on the qualities of personality etc, this thread has made me that work closely interactions between the races in my area which happens to be quite multi-racial and multicultural ( and yes there is an important Distinction there).
> 
> In the last 10 years I can only remember one incident which could potentially have being viewed as racist, though no actual racist comments were made. It was simply a white man abusing a brown man but I suspect that race actually had nothing, or very little to do with it.
> 
> ...




Depends where you go in Australia. Up north you find a lot of racism. I don't like it but I can totally understand it. If one race is very prone to shoplifting, violence, vandalism, defecating in public, rape, drug abuse etc etc, it is not surprising if the other main racial group becomes racist towards them. Unfortunately that will generally include making assumptions about all individuals of that race including the minority of that race in that area which does none of these things if such a minority exists.

If the majority of individuals of any category of thing are better or worse than average, it is only natural that people will make assumptions. If I find that most red apples have worms in them and most green apples don't, I'm going to start choosing the green apples and assuming red apples have worms in them, including the ones which don't. If most people who wear green hats are nice to you and most people with pink hats beat you up and steal your wallet, you're going to start liking people who wear green hats and disliking people who wear pink hats.

Tangible, real differences between demographics of people including race do exist, and people respond accordingly. Political correctness contradicts reality by telling us that these differences do not exist and that if we act like they do we are bad.

Having said that, I firmly believe in doing our best to judge all humans as individuals and treat them accordingly. Having said that, I realise sometimes it is impossible or dangerous. People are having difficulty reconciling reality and practicality with political correctness.


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## wayneL (15 April 2019)

Totally acknowledging your point @Sdajii 

As politically uncomfortable as that point is, the harsh reality is thus.


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## moXJO (15 April 2019)

Sdajii said:


> You might be mixing up race and nationality? That area is quite multiethnic. There are multiple races in China for example, and the Chinese are racist against Chinese of other races.
> 
> As a nationality, yes, Thais are quite patriotic to the country of Thailand, but most Thai (nationality) people are not Thai (race/culture). Even in a small farming area in that region, they'll definitely be aware of the Hmong and will dislike them (unless you were dealing with people who are Hmong, in which case they will be aware that the others don't like them). All of the many races in Thailand are still Thai by nationality and most are pretty patriotic, but still racist against each other.
> 
> As I said, I don't know about the specific place you went to and maybe it's an unusual exception, but I've been to all regions of Thailand and most provinces, and if you've found people unaware of there being multiple races it's extremely unusual. Not saying it doesn't exist in Thailand but I've never seen or heard of it. The people in that region only a few generations are weren't part of the same kingdom, race or culture as Thais (like, the race/culture/'national' identity of the people in 'Bangkok' was not the same). The whole area which is now Thailand wasn't even a united country until fairly recently, it was made up of many seperate kingdoms/empires, each racially different, they all had wars with each other, they all had separate identities, they don't identify as the same race as the original race in Bangkok (ie where Bangkok now is, which of course Thai people don't even call Bangkok today), although the Thai (nationality) people in Bangkok have recently become very ethnically diverse. When I first came to Bangkok years ago I couldn't tell the difference between all the different races but now within what used to just look like Thai people to me I can see many different races. It's funny, when I was first in Thailand I didn't even generally notice the difference between Thais (the race native to the Siam region), Chinese, Burmese, Khmer (Cambodians) etc, and now they look completely different. Thai (nationality) people are much better at it than I am or ever will be.



They were  all thai. They didn't have a problem with Hmong when I asked and are aware of them. They said "they have to survive" and viewed them as needing help. 
I might try and get up to the mountains  to see as I was offered a trip up there near chang rai.

I think we're crossing lines here.  They are aware of other races. They know there are other races in Thailand. But they haven't formed racist opinions till they hit the cities. They haven't met any other races. Its thais in their area.
I just asked a few minutes ago if they had chinese, Indians, Hmong etc and they said no.

Know any good kickboxing camps in your travels?


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## Garpal Gumnut (15 April 2019)

I worked in the states over 40 years ago as a laborer and anything I could get my hands on to make a dollar, busboy, old age care, mental health care, vehicle repossession and night club "accessibility".

It was racist then and I do not need to go back to prove it is still racist. I read it is. 

I worked in Atlanta, Georgia for five months then moved to Birmingham, Alabama and then on to San Fran via delivering a repossessed car to Fresno.

Most of my friends were working class whites or blacks.

It's a very, very complex situation. Some of my best friends were racist whites and some of my best friends were ex WW2 black soldiers who had to work in construction battalions because they were black, and other blacks. 

Many chocolate left and right wing commentating media soldiers think they have the cause and the answer. 

They don't. 

gg

ps Vehicle repossession in the Southern states of the USA is one of the most exciting jobs one can do outside of active service in the military. Night club bouncing is very boring.


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## Sdajii (15 April 2019)

moXJO said:


> They were  all thai. They didn't have a problem with Hmong when I asked and are aware of them. They said "they have to survive" and viewed them as needing help.
> I might try and get up to the mountains  to see as I was offered a trip up there near chang rai.
> 
> I think we're crossing lines here.  They are aware of other races. They know there are other races in Thailand. But they haven't formed racist opinions till they hit the cities. They haven't met any other races. Its thais in their area.
> ...




Sounds like a very small community you're talking about. Odd if they're ethnic Thai up there. They wouldn't be likely to have Chinese or Indians there, but if they have no Hmong it must be a small place/community. If you're talking about one small little community then yeah, they might be of pure ethnic background (as another example, you get Hmong villages which are all Hmong too). As you say, the larger the place and the more exposure people have to different races, the more racist they become. Even in villages of a few hundred people I find they're familiar with other races and generally have racial preferences. Fondness for white people is noticeably dropping. They still usually have a favourable attitude to white people (sometimes of course, especially in tourist areas, they just look through predatory eyes and try to extract money from them, often unethically, and some of them consider white people to be rude, selfish, vulgar and other negative things).

I've met a few Thai and foreign kickboxers but it's not really something I'm interested in and I haven't been to any of the camps. Occasionally someone shows me pictures of them, I've never been to one. I'm not really sure but I think there are some up in the north west aimed at foreigners.


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## moXJO (15 April 2019)

Sdajii said:


> . Fondness for white people is noticeably dropping. They still usually have a favourable attitude to white people (sometimes of course, especially in tourist areas, they just look through predatory eyes and try to extract money from them, often unethically, and some of them consider white people to be rude, selfish, vulgar and other negative things).



This is where I find it works in reverse. Thais that haven't met white people are sold on the Hollywood/ads bs portrayals of glamorous whites. Most in Australia ended up disliking white women from the way they treat them. The illusion soon shatters.

Any good resources on picking up the language? 
They have some very good quality building goods over there that I wouldn't mind importing. Be good to get a bit more of the lingo


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## Sdajii (15 April 2019)

moXJO said:


> This is where I find it works in reverse. Thais that haven't met white people are sold on the Hollywood/ads bs portrayals of glamorous whites. Most in Australia ended up disliking white women from the way they treat them. The illusion soon shatters.
> 
> Any good resources on picking up the language?
> They have some very good quality building goods over there that I wouldn't mind importing. Be good to get a bit more of the lingo




Yeah, I've had people ask me if I have a six pack, assuming I probably do (obviously ones who haven't had much to do with white people, especially up close and personal). I'm not fat or anything, but I wouldn't have thought anyone would look at me with a shirt on and wonder if I have a six pack, haha. The western media they get exposed to definitely gives them a glorified impression of the west/white people. However, in recent years the western media is full of white people self loathing and self demonising, and not surprisingly, they are starting to think white people are bad or flawed (heck, half of all white people seem to think that now). Haha, yeah, everyone is starting to dislike white women! As a white person who grew up in Australia (although a lot of that time I was in a middle eastern community, but they were all so segregated, I never saw any of them marry or get involved with any white or Australian born people) I always figured I would end up with a white wife and never had an interest in Asian women, and when I first came to Asia I didn't find them visually attractive, but within a year I had lost interest in white women and now a few years later can't imagine having a white girlfriend or wife.

I haven't studied the language, I don't find people learn languages in a classroom. I just talk to people and pick it up as I go. Probably some classroom study along with talking to people would have helped. I've picked up more than most people do in the same amount of time (I've spent a total of about 2.5 years in Thailand) but I'm still only barely conversational. It's a difficult and to be honest extremely bad language. If it was German or Spanish or something I'd be fluent by now. Like any language, the best way to learn is just to talk to people.


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## moXJO (16 April 2019)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> It's a difficult and to be honest extremely bad language. If it was German or Spanish or something I'd be fluent by now. Like any language, the best way to learn is just to talk to people.



Yeah I agree. Tonality of some of the words gets me in trouble. "Mother" and "horse" is just way too close for my liking.


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## Garpal Gumnut (16 April 2019)

moXJO said:


> Yeah I agree. Tonality of some of the words gets me in trouble. "Mother" and "horse" is just way too close for my liking.




I cannot see where I have said what you quote I have said moXJO. Perhaps it's from another thread ??

gg


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## moXJO (16 April 2019)

Sorry gg that was suppose to be sdajii


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## MARKETWINNER (18 April 2019)

There are people talking about racism. In my case I never met personally any racist person during my working period and my life period in western or eastern world. My colleagues and bosses were belongs to different cultures and they treated me very well. I also respected them although some were bit difficult in work wise. By looking at media and reading some study I was able to get some idea about racism, apartheid and human trafficking etc. Those days I had some idea about Lebanon crisis, South African and Zimbabwe crisis etc. Now I find some sort of crisis everywhere. Something is wrong somewhere.  Racism is not limited to western world. Again not everybody is racist. It could be very small percentage.


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## Sdajii (20 April 2019)

MARKETWINNER said:


> There are people talking about racism. In my case I never met personally any racist person during my working period and my life period in western or eastern world.




LOL



> Racism is not limited to western world.




No, it's everywhere, and the west is where it is least common.



> Again not everybody is racist. It could be very small percentage.




It could be if it wasn't.

People usually on the surface say they're not racist, but have a candid conversation with them and most people are, including most of the people who believe they are not.

Humans are born with a predisposition to being racist (contrary to the recent popular myth, despite clear and obvious evidence that we are). For most people it takes indoctrination (even if you consider it to be good indoctrination, which is arguably is) to get people to grow up and consider themselves to not be racist, and to genuinely not be racist it takes an unusual thinker and the right circumstances.

The whole world has always been divided up into different groups of people based on various observable differences, and race is probably the most obvious. It takes a great leap away from easily observable reality to think most humans aren't inherently racist. Most animals are too, and the exceptions are few in number. It's only fairly recently that some cultures have put a taboo on racism.


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## SirRumpole (20 April 2019)

Sdajii said:


> Political correctness contradicts reality by telling us that these differences do not exist and that if we act like they do we are bad.




Exactly.


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## MARKETWINNER (20 April 2019)

Sdjii: Thank you for the kind response.

When I study human history and their behavior, I can get some ideas. Best thing is even some don’t know that they are related to each other. People are killing each other despite speaking same languages with little difference. I found lots of languages have similarities, when they talk some words which give similar meaning. World had civilizations, different political systems and religions. Still we see crimes, wars, genocides and hypocrisy.  Fortunately, we are having some peace loving people in this world. To my surprise some areas of this world have more racisms than other areas. I couldn’t believe. It may be they don’t like people with different outlook or they like to stay closer to their own culture. However, as they are internet based study I cannot take everything as right unless I see in my eyes.  I was studying even animal behavior. Recently, I saw one particular bird fed food to another variety of a baby chick. In addition, historically and seasonally also there had been some conflicts among different cultures. Sad stories are everywhere. World need some sort of protection for the most vulnerable innocent people (civilians). They can be target group from their own community, their own police, arm forces or extremist groups. History is repeating in a different miner.


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## Sdajii (21 April 2019)

MARKETWINNER said:


> Sdjii: Thank you for the kind response.
> 
> When I study human history and their behavior, I can get some ideas. Best thing is even some don’t know that they are related to each other. People are killing each other despite speaking same languages with little difference. I found lots of languages have similarities, when they talk some words which give similar meaning. World had civilizations, different political systems and religions. Still we see crimes, wars, genocides and hypocrisy.  Fortunately, we are having some peace loving people in this world. To my surprise some areas of this world have more racisms than other areas. I couldn’t believe. It may be they don’t like people with different outlook or they like to stay closer to their own culture. However, as they are internet based study I cannot take everything as right unless I see in my eyes.  I was studying even animal behavior. Recently, I saw one particular bird fed food to another variety of a baby chick. In addition, historically and seasonally also there had been some conflicts among different cultures. Sad stories are everywhere. World need some sort of protection for the most vulnerable innocent people (civilians). They can be target group from their own community, their own police, arm forces or extremist groups. History is repeating in a different miner.




I couldn't quite catch the point you were trying to make there.

Yes, there are different levels of diversity and homogeneity in different parts of the world. Yes, there are different amounts of racism in different areas. I'm not sure what point you're making about languages. Yes, war, crime, etc exist. I'm a biologist and have studied animal behaviour in some detail. Yes, sometimes birds feed babies of other species, this is pretty much exclusively various species of cuckoos, which have babies which mimic the babies of other species. Their eggs hatch faster, kick the other eggs or chicks out of the nest, pretend to be the real baby of the adult birds whose babies they murder, and fool the foster parents into raising them. The parents of the murder babies go around laying eggs in everyone else's nests. This is not adaptive behaviour on the part of the adults feeding the baby of another species, this is parasitism and exploitation by the cuckoo birds. If the host species was able to recognise it (and often they do) they kill the cuckoo chicks. If this relates to human racism in any way, the analogy would be like a Chinese person pretending to be a Vietnamese person to avoid being discriminated against by Vietnamese people, because most Vietnamese people don't like the Chinese. The cuckoo birds are posing as a different species, making that species like them. I don't believe there is a recorded incidence of a bird feeding another bird without thinking that bird was of the same species. This however relates more to species than race. Whether it's fish, birds, snakes or humans, most individuals prefer to mate (or pair up) with and associate with other individuals which are similar to themselves. Humans are an interestingly polymorphic species, with some individuals, mostly males, sometimes developing a reversal of this preference. Incidentally I am one of those (and unusually, it happened to me later in life).

You say historically there were conflicts between different human groups, as though that is no longer the case.

In most respects, humans are just another species of animal, and like all the others, most individuals are inherently racist. A lot of people struggle to understand the distinction between what is and what would be nice, or what is and what can be. I don't advocate racism, I just understand that it is the default state, and that it is very common all over the world.


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## basilio (27 May 2020)

How to go instantly viral and trash yourself in 2 minutes. 

* Video of white woman calling police on black man in Central Park draws outrage *
Woman called 911 after birdwatcher asked her to leash her dog, reigniting storm over everyday racism

Joanna Walters in New York

 
 @Joannawalters13 
Wed 27 May 2020 04.51 AEST   First published on Wed 27 May 2020 04.16 AEST 
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/26/central-park-new-york-white-woman-black-birdwatcher


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## macca (27 May 2020)

basilio said:


> How to go instantly viral and trash yourself in 2 minutes.
> 
> * Video of white woman calling police on black man in Central Park draws outrage *
> Woman called 911 after birdwatcher asked her to leash her dog, reigniting storm over everyday racism
> ...





certainly highlights that racism goes every which way, here we have a white woman obviously prejudiced against a black man.

there was that one about a jogger getting shot by vigilantes as well.

On the other hand there are many places within the USA that a white fella would fear to tread

In Asia whites are discriminated against, seems that the majority are biased against those that are different everywhere.

Put a new chook in chook pen, it will be a bloody mess the next day, if it is still a live !!

Tribalism is a survival technique inbred within most living things


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## wayneL (28 May 2020)

macca said:


> certainly highlights that racism goes every which way, here we have a white woman obviously prejudiced against a black man.
> 
> there was that one about a jogger getting shot by vigilantes as well.
> 
> ...



Exactly, everyday racism cuts both ways.

I grew up in a suburb where the neighbouring suburb was largely indigenous. 

Some of us judged each other based on how we found each other as individuals. Others judged purely on the colour of the skin.

And that did *cut both ways".

Those who are trying to create a narrative that one particular group is especially racist should give themself an uppercut because they are not helping anything.

And once again that does "cut both ways".


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## macca (28 May 2020)

It is not just racism, prejudice against those who are different happens in many ways. 

We have anti discrimination laws and I support them but the fact remains it is an inbred thing to trust those that are like ourselves before we trust those that are different.

Clusters of immigrants is the classic example, we have allowed them into our country, we give them all sorts of social and financial help yet virtually every nationality has its own enclave.

This also applies to the wealthy as well, clusters of Chinese Doctors, the same with ex South Africans, it simply tribalism and it is perfectly natural.

There are expat communities of Ozzies all over the place

It also happens with religion, those of one faith trust their own group before another, Shia and Sunni, based on the same book but different opinions.

Kookaburras don't breed with magpies, is that racism ?


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## Humid (28 May 2020)

Racism is like jealousy
It's up to you to show its face or choose not to
It's always there


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## rederob (28 May 2020)

What the video does not show is why Mr Floyd could not move.
Another officer had his knee in Mr Floyd's back, and a third officer hd his weight across his legs.
Mr Floyd was dead at about the 5 minute point of this 10 minute video.
I felt unwell when I realised this as I thought they said he died an hour later.


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## wayneL (28 May 2020)

macca said:


> It is not just racism, prejudice against those who are different happens in many ways.
> 
> We have anti discrimination laws and I support them but the fact remains it is an inbred thing to trust those that are like ourselves before we trust those that are different.
> 
> ...




Yep.

Outside of the modern view of things, there are very sensible reasons in past history (and especially prehistory) for... let's call it xenophobia which are deeply rooted in our core psychology.

Interestingly and topically, many of the answers lay in epidemiology... protecting one's tribe from disease.


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## Knobby22 (29 May 2020)

The use of smart phones is making overt racism much more difficult to take place.

The white police officers deliberately executing a black man in broad daylight and the white woman with the dog post show the imbalance is real. It is interesting that he was dead at 5 minutes but they made sure of it by keeping it going an extra 5 minutes.

It shows that they feel they have the power to get away with this. In both cases if someone hadn't videoed what happened then it is pretty obvious that they would have.

As an aside, the white officer controlling the crowd will be in big trouble with his fellow officers for letting the videoing happen. Also for this to occur, I reckon there must have been some history with the guy they executed which may come out later.


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## SirRumpole (29 May 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> The use of smart phones is making overt racism much more difficult to take place.
> 
> The white police officers deliberately executing a black man in broad daylight and the white woman with the dog post show the imbalance is real. It is interesting that he was dead at 5 minutes but they made sure of it by keeping it going an extra 5 minutes.
> 
> ...




Will be interesting to see if the ex officers are charged with murder or manslaughter.

Compare the case of Justine Damond vs the death of a black person.


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## qldfrog (29 May 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Will be interesting to see if the ex officers are charged with murder or manslaughter.
> 
> Compare the case of Justine Damond vs the death of a black person.



Not denying the last guy was murdered/manslaughtered, what i do not like is that if you do any poll on death by police in the US, you would get the answer than most deaths are black , whereas the true figures are white men are the main victims of death by police.
I was surprised by the stats
Which says a lot as white are underrepresented vs black in crime
Do your own research, does not have to be on Fox news or believe me
It is a sign of a police force turning into vigilantes
And want to add that Australia is not perfect as it seems any mentally ill person with a kitchen knife ends up dead when meeting the force..as if a bullet had to be fatal...
And they do not need to shout Allah hackbar
Police forces now feeling they need to play SAS forces every where..


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## SirRumpole (29 May 2020)

qldfrog said:


> whereas the true figures are white men are the main victims of death by police.




Do you have a link to those figures ? What about in proportion to the population figures ?

eg say 40% of the population is black, do they make up 40% of the deaths by police ?


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## rederob (29 May 2020)

qldfrog said:


> Not denying the last guy was murdered/manslaughtered, what i do not like is that if you do any poll on death by police in the US, you would get the answer than most deaths are black , whereas the true figures are white men are the main victims of death by police.
> I was surprised by the stats
> Which says a lot as white are underrepresented vs black in crime
> Do your own research, does not have to be on Fox news or believe me
> ...



Please do not insult the intelligence of readers with poor data analysis.
If you are black in the USA an expected death rate would be one in 8 from a police shooting.  Instead, blacks are killed 25% of time, so they are actually *twice as likely* to be the victim.
If you are white in the USA an expected death rate would be 7 out of 10. However, using 2020 data as a guide, as of March 30 there had been 42 confirmed white deaths and 31 black deaths.


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## wayneL (29 May 2020)

rederob said:


> Please do not insult the intelligence of readers with poor data analysis.
> If you are black in the USA an expected death rate would be one in 8 from a police shooting.  Instead, blacks are killed 25% of time, so they are actually *twice as likely* to be the victim.
> If you are white in the USA an expected death rate would be 7 out of 10. However, using 2020 data as a guide, as of March 30 there had been 42 confirmed white deaths and 31 black deaths.



A deeper look is required than that. Blacks are involved in violent crime at a rate of 3 to 1 per capita. Therefore one might expect a higher level of police shootings.

We can go deeper again and analyse the reasons for that second order of disparity, but one must be careful how they apply first order statistics.


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## rederob (29 May 2020)

wayneL said:


> A deeper look is required than that. Blacks are involved in violent crime at a rate of 3 to 1 per capita. Therefore one might expect a higher level of police shootings.
> 
> We can go deeper again and analyse the reasons for that second order of disparity, but one must be careful how they apply first order statistics.



One might wonder why police are more likely to kill an unarmed black person.
US studies also show that white suspects were more often armed and more often the attackers in police incidents than non-white suspects, so *bias* must form an important consideration.


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## qldfrog (29 May 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Do you have a link to those figures ? What about in proportion to the population figures ?
> 
> eg say 40% of the population is black, do they make up 40% of the deaths by police ?



I will if i can find the time, but if you are really interested, to either know or try to proof me wrong feel free, i got interested in that a year or so ago when we had the black lives matters pc crap.
Lives matter.


----------



## qldfrog (29 May 2020)

*Number of people shot to death by the police in the United States from 2017 to 2020, by race*

*2017* *2018* *2019* *2020**
White 457 399 370 42
Black 223 209 235 31
Hispanic 179 148 158 13
Other 44 36 39 3
Unknown 84 204 202 139


----------



## qldfrog (29 May 2020)

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/
Not the story PC want you to hear, and let's not forget that black community has much higher crime rate than others so the figures are clear, if you are a thug and are arrested by police, you are better off being black.
If you are white or latino, they just kill you and no one cares


----------



## qldfrog (29 May 2020)

rederob said:


> One might wonder why police are more likely to kill an unarmed black person.
> US studies also show that white suspects were more often armed and more often the attackers in police incidents than non-white suspects, so *bias* must form an important consideration.



Stop your bs propaganda and bring facts for a change...


----------



## Humid (29 May 2020)

qldfrog said:


> *Number of people shot to death by the police in the United States from 2017 to 2020, by race*
> 
> *2017* *2018* *2019* *2020**
> White 457 399 370 42
> ...




Can you throw in the percentage of population or won't that fit your agenda


----------



## sptrawler (29 May 2020)

What about white farmers in Africa?


----------



## Humid (29 May 2020)

sptrawler said:


> What about white farmers in Africa?



Possibly something to do with the thread title
But I imagine they were a small percentage of deaths in Africa


----------



## wayneL (29 May 2020)

I always find white self loathing a curious phenomenon. Equally curious is the correlation with other ideological beliefs.

Just sayin'


----------



## Knobby22 (29 May 2020)

wayneL said:


> I always find white self loathing a curious phenomenon. Equally curious is the correlation with other ideological beliefs.
> 
> Just sayin'




True, another example, the master race attitude also correlates with certain ideological beliefs.


----------



## wayneL (29 May 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> True, another example, the master race attitude also correlates with certain ideological beliefs.



Who mentioned master race, Knobby?

As for me, I'm more of a "I have a dream" sort of bloke.


----------



## Knobby22 (29 May 2020)

wayneL said:


> Who mentioned master race, Knobby?
> 
> As for me, I'm more of a "I have a dream" sort of bloke.




So am I, just noting the correlation with political beliefs/self worth works both ways.


----------



## Knobby22 (29 May 2020)

Just off topic for a second, yesterday I heard Tom Switzers very interesting interview on ABC National with two right wing aboriginal leaders (one a very senior female WA figure) who stated that their culture of victimhood is stopping their improvement and that some people in their community love to foster this and make money out of it.

They also said that we need another model and giving the communities welfare is a disaster as it is soul destroying, they need purpose. Great interview, worth a listen everyone. . they also said that doing a forced little aboriginal acknowledgement speech in front of every get together was becoming counterproductive - I heartily agree with this.

Libs, give these guys the aboriginal ministry

I know this doesn't relate to the USA situation but not sure where to put it.


----------



## wayneL (29 May 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> So am I, just noting the correlation with political beliefs/self worth works both ways.



Such people exist, of course they do.

But while we are on the topic of statistics, I think the numbers of those people with those beliefs absolutely pale into insignificance to the self loathers.

The Guardianistas love to highlight the rare occasion went one of those pops their head above the parapet, but in reality their numbers are miniscule.

If we take ASF as a microcosm, there are zero white supremacists, whereas there are quite a few white self loathers.


----------



## Humid (29 May 2020)

I used the percentage mainly because it's been a tool to downplay the US deaths from Corona but not in black deaths
Convenience


----------



## moXJO (29 May 2020)

Democrats run area.

What's the go?


----------



## Humid (29 May 2020)

wayneL said:


> Such people exist, of course they do.
> 
> But while we are on the topic of statistics, I think the numbers of those people with those beliefs absolutely pale into insignificance to the self loathers.
> 
> ...




How would you  know they were white is a curious phenomenon


----------



## wayneL (29 May 2020)

Humid said:


> How would you  know they were white is a curious phenomenon



Yes there are a lot of non white racists too.


----------



## basilio (29 May 2020)

I'm a bit curious here.
Are you a "white self loather" if you think that a policeman kneeling on the neck of a handcuffed Afro American  in the street  and slooowly choking him to death and then continuing to kneel on his neck for 5 minutes after he stops moving (just to make sure  he's dead...) while his 3 fellow officers stand guard  to ensure no one intervenes  ... is loathsome ?

Or maybe this is just a particularly loathsome act of public execution  by police officers in the name of the Law that deserves some outrage.


----------



## joeno (29 May 2020)

Wiki page for protests in Minneapolis: 2020 Twin Cities "riots"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Twin_Cities_riots

Wiki page for riots in Hong Kong: 2019–20 Hong Kong "protests"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019–20_Hong_Kong_protests

"On May 29, President Donald Trump responded to the protests by threatening to send in the National Guard if Mayor Jacob Frey does not bring the city under control, saying that "Any difficulty and we will assume control but, when the looting starts, the shooting starts."[25][26][27]"

It's a riot if you're protesting against American racial violence. It's a protest if you're setting people on fire and attacking (mainland) Chinese people. What a world.


----------



## wayneL (29 May 2020)

basilio said:


> I'm a bit curious here.
> Are you a "white self loather" if you think that a policeman kneeling on the neck of a handcuffed Afro American  in the street  and slooowly choking him to death and then continuing to kneel on his neck for 5 minutes after he stops moving (just to make sure  he's dead...) while his 3 fellow officers stand guard  to ensure no one intervenes  ... is loathsome ?
> 
> Or maybe this is just a particularly loathsome act of public execution  by police officers in the name of the Law that deserves some outrage.



You are being disingenuous and fallacious bas, and you know it.


----------



## Humid (29 May 2020)

wayneL said:


> Yes there are a lot of non white racists too.



On here?


----------



## basilio (30 May 2020)

The death  of George Floyd by a policeman kneeling on his neck for 9 minutes went through many phases.
It's been recorded. So what happened ? It's confronting because of the sheer impunity shown by the police to slowly suffocate a bound suspect to death in public view.

* The death of George Floyd was an act of murder, plain and simple *
The Minneapolis police department’s failure to arrest the officers responsible threatens our most basic sense of justice

Ben Crump and Jasmine Rand

Sat 30 May 2020 01.29 AEST   Last modified on Sat 30 May 2020 02.23 AEST

Shares
699
 

“Get off of his neck.” “Please! Please!” “I can’t breathe.” Police in America have far too many non-lethal ways to reliably kill black men without facing criminal charges. The weaponization of racism does not require a gun or a bullet. In this case, a police officer’s knee was the weapon used to kill George Floyd. The observing officers’ indifference was also a weapon used to kill Floyd, and the Minneapolis police department’s failure to arrest the officers responsible is a weapon threatening to kill our most basic sense of justice.

Most law enforcement agencies classify weapons and use of physical force into two broad categories: “lethal” and “non-lethal”. Officers regularly convert “non-lethal” weapons and physical force into deadly force and hide behind the agency’s classification system to avoid criminal charges.

In reality, any weapon or any use of physical force can cause death when misused. Police batons kill people. Tasers kill people. Chokeholds kill people. Kneeling on someone’s neck for eight minutes kills people. You don’t need to attend the police academy to know that if you obstruct someone’s airway they will eventually stop breathing, and if you cannot breathe you will die.

Mike Freeman, the district attorney, is required by the laws of the state of Minnesota to charge the police officer who kneeled on Floyd’s neck with first-degree murder. Similarly, the officers who watched their fellow officer do it, failed to intervene and stopped other citizens from trying to save Floyd’s life should also be charged.

The officers served as judge, jury and executioners of George Floyd

The officers served as judge, jury and executioners of George Floyd when they killed him in the street; and they should face life sentences for First-Degree Murder in a court of law. A first-degree murder charge in Minnesota requires that a person acts to “cause the death of a human being with premeditation and with intent to effect the death of the person”.

The video evidence clearly shows that the officers acted with the intent to kill and with premeditation. Floyd told the officers he could not breathe 12 times, including within the first few seconds of the video. Floyd said: “I’m about to die … they’re gonna kill me,” and called out for his mother. He lost consciousness, stopped breathing and his body went limp after four minutes. Forty seconds later witnesses told officers that Floyd was unresponsive. At least 16 times they asked the officers to take his pulse.

The officers even prevented a woman who identified herself as an EMT from trying to save his life. Two minutes and 20 seconds after Floyd lost consciousness, witnesses began to say: “They just killed him.” The officers all knew that Floyd was unconscious, was not breathing, that his body was limp, but an officer kept his knee pressed on his windpipe, making sure he did not breathe for another four minutes, despite witnesses’ relentless insistence that he was dying. If the witnesses knew he was dying, the officers knew he was dying. The officers knew that Floyd needed oxygen to live, but they never attempted CPR, never took his pulse and never tried to save his life.

Racism is the eye staring down the barrel of our justice system and threatening to pull the trigger. Recall that only after a mass protest movement did the officer who killed Eric Garner in a chokehold face any consequences.

Freeman cannot allow the Minneapolis police officers who killed Floyd to elude criminal charges under the weak, shameful excuse that the level of force used was “non-lethal”, or that the officers didn’t know that Floyd would die without oxygen. That argument is as dishonest as saying they didn’t know what happens to a fish out of water. We can all visualize that image: the fish out of water, its mouth open and gasping for air; and we all know the fish is going to die, just like the officers knew that Floyd was going to die.

We encourage people to call Mike Freeman at (612) 348-5550 and demand that the officers involved in killing George Floyd be charged with first-degree murder.


Ben Crump is a civil rights attorney and founder of the national law firm Ben Crump Law. Crump is representing the Floyd family


Jasmine Rand, a civil rights attorney who has worked on numerous police brutality cases, is also representing the Floyd family
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/29/george-floyd-death-benjamin-crump-jasmine-rand


----------



## SirRumpole (30 May 2020)

basilio said:


> The Minneapolis police department’s failure to arrest the officers responsible threatens our most basic sense of justice




One has been arrested and charged with murder.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05...icer-who-killed-george-floyd-charged/12303144


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## basilio (30 May 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> One has been arrested and charged with murder.
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05...icer-who-killed-george-floyd-charged/12303144




Indeed 3rd degree murder is the charge. The other police who stood watched and kept the public at bay have yet to be charged.

In the circumstances I think 3rd degree murder doesn't reflect on the  length of time it took for George to die  the repeated cries of  "I can't breathe" and the repeated ignored pleas of bystanders to stop the process.

It was interesting to see how police can game the rules by using "non lethal" means to achieve a lethal outcome and get away with it.

Another view on the fallout from this killing.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05...-time-us-race-relations-george-floyd/12303170


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## basilio (30 May 2020)

Previous form.

His wife has  already decided this was particularly loathsome behaviour and sued for divorce.
*The Minneapolis police officer who knelt on George Floyd's neck had 18 previous complaints against him, police department says*
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/28/us/minneapolis-officer-complaints-george-floyd/index.html
https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020...-mpd-officer-derek-chauvin-files-for-divorce/


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## bellenuit (30 May 2020)

*Wife of officer charged with murder of George Floyd announces she's divorcing him*

*https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...orge-floyd-announces-she-s-divorcing-n1219276*


----------



## bellenuit (30 May 2020)

*George Floyd autopsy found 'no physical findings...of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation'*

https://justthenews.com/government/...-no-physical-findingsof-traumatic-asphyxia-or


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## qldfrog (30 May 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> True, another example, the master race attitude also correlates with certain ideological beliefs.



Interesting , and where do you put Chinese Han here?
Not PC so not well discussed in the west but believe me, definitely a ubermenschen feeling there and we had a taste of the Japanese version in WWII


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## Knobby22 (30 May 2020)

qldfrog said:


> Interesting , and where do you put Chinese Han here?
> Not PC so not well discussed in the west but believe me, definitely a ubermenschen feeling there and we had a taste of the Japanese version in WWII



The Chinese Han are a whole country with that attitude. Ruthless. Yes a lot like the Japanese pre WW2. 
Off topic though.
And it's a dictatorship.


----------



## moXJO (31 May 2020)

Statistically I'm sure minority cops were more likely to shoot blacks. From memory black cop on black was higher. Personally I think it's a law enforcement problem with a few bad eggs. Cops have to go through a lot of sht and it doesn't surprise me there are some damaged individuals as a result. I'd hate to be a cop in the US.


----------



## moXJO (31 May 2020)

basilio said:


> The death  of George Floyd by a policeman kneeling on his neck for 9 minutes went through many phases.
> It's been recorded. So what happened ? It's confronting because of the sheer impunity shown by the police to slowly suffocate a bound suspect to death in public view.
> 
> * The death of George Floyd was an act of murder, plain and simple *
> ...



Should never have happened over a counterfeit $20.


----------



## Smurf1976 (31 May 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> they also said that doing a forced little aboriginal acknowledgement speech in front of every get together was becoming counterproductive - I heartily agree with this.



It's become one of those things that's so routine as to have completely lost its intended purpose.

It's up there with the "written, spoken and authorised by......" after political advertisements or the "warning some scenes may offend some viewers" before documentaries on certain subjects. It's being said as a legal compliance thing and nothing more.

As someone who is white and male, I consider myself as neither superior nor inferior to someone who is black and/or female. Always amazes me how many struggle with that concept.


----------



## joeno (31 May 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> The Chinese Han are a whole country with that attitude. Ruthless. Yes a lot like the Japanese pre WW2.
> Off topic though.
> And it's a dictatorship.




is it too much to ask for evidence? or are you going to come with "aww well you know..." type response.

the evidence is very much apparent for American supremacism from the current (only) line of government. A policy of double standards that is as clear as day with the hk and minneapolis riots. A history of repeated operations of destabilising foreign nations and regime change. Racist policies evident in slavery and Japanese internment and Chinese exclusion act. Repeated interfering in international affairs outside their own shores.


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## Knobby22 (31 May 2020)

qldfrog said:


> Interesting , and where do you put Chinese Han here?
> Not PC so not well discussed in the west but believe me, definitely a ubermenschen feeling there and we had a taste of the Japanese version in WWII



Actually a better comparison is Nazi Germany. I can't see any difference.


----------



## Knobby22 (31 May 2020)

joeno said:


> is it too much to ask for evidence? or are you going to come with "aww well you know..." type response.
> 
> the evidence is very much apparent for American supremacism from the current (only) line of government. A policy of double standards that is as clear as day with the hk and minneapolis riots. A history of repeated operations of destabilising foreign nations and regime change. Racist policies evident in slavery and Japanese internment and Chinese exclusion act. Repeated interfering in international affairs outside their own shores.



Yes, so how does that mean my statement was wrong?
China is a right wing dictatorship. Maybe you can tell me why I am wrong.

I'm not defending the USA.


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## qldfrog (31 May 2020)

Terrible thing is that the rioting happening now is actually white based, just the culmination of Trump hate by brain damaged left leading surely toward civil war..
China, so revered by @joeno and some of our own Australian servants to the CCP, is having the time of its life.


----------



## moXJO (31 May 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Just off topic for a second, yesterday I heard Tom Switzers very interesting interview on ABC National with two right wing aboriginal leaders (one a very senior female WA figure) who stated that their culture of victimhood is stopping their improvement and that some people in their community love to foster this and make money out of it.
> 
> They also said that we need another model and giving the communities welfare is a disaster as it is soul destroying, they need purpose. Great interview, worth a listen everyone. . they also said that doing a forced little aboriginal acknowledgement speech in front of every get together was becoming counterproductive - I heartily agree with this.
> 
> ...



Victimhood gives people a reason to whine and do nothing. As soon as you can put the blame on someone else, you literally get stuck in position. The other thing it does is breed hate.
Not taking responsibility for yourself and your people breeds a whole heap of weak degenerates.


----------



## Knobby22 (31 May 2020)

I disagree regarding the rioting. It's just a reaction from hopelessness. They know their lives don't count.

The right nuts know they do have power. They have used the unrest to attack the CNN building and kill a few protesters.


----------



## qldfrog (31 May 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> I disagree regarding the rioting. It's just a reaction from hopelessness. They know their lives don't count.
> 
> The right nuts know they do have power. They have used the unrest to attack the CNN building and kill a few protesters.



please look at footages, these are white demonstrations, just watched some this morning from the french socialist TV state network, no fox news, very few blacks..basically an anti trump riot found a pretext.
Of course, in the black suburbs, looting etc by some opportunistic thugs..no surprise, and regardless of skin colour ..not race riot, civil war tentative more like it


----------



## Humid (31 May 2020)

No idea why they’re upset....
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05...-face-another-devastating-depression/12282666


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## Dona Ferentes (31 May 2020)

this is on another site, about USA militias, of varying persuasions

_*Home of the hateful, fearful and heavily armed*

https://boards.sharecafe.com.au/index.php?showtopic=13184&_


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## moXJO (31 May 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> I disagree regarding the rioting. It's just a reaction from hopelessness. They know their lives don't count.
> 
> The right nuts know they do have power. They have used the unrest to attack the CNN building and kill a few protesters.



Rioting for riotings sake. Bunch of idiots looting, smashing, stealing and assaulting. Hong Kong protesters were a model for anti authority protest.
US is a bunch of dimwits being controlled by various factions and who let mobs turn to violence.


----------



## dutchie (31 May 2020)

moXJO said:


> US is a bunch of dimwits being controlled by various factions and who let mobs turn to violence.




George Soros and Antifa


----------



## chiff (31 May 2020)

moXJO said:


> Rioting for riotings sake. Bunch of idiots looting, smashing, stealing and assaulting. Hong Kong protesters were a model for anti authority protest.
> US is a bunch of dimwits being controlled by various factions and who let mobs turn to violence.



These big  bellicose protests usually are joined by a collection of vandals nihilists and criminals.In Hong Kong I viewed some with hammers smashing ticket terminals at the entrance to the underground.Some protesters are more subtle.


----------



## basilio (31 May 2020)

moXJO said:


> Should never have happened over a counterfeit $20.




True. 
But I'm struggling to see *in what circumstances at all *a police officer should be  "allowed" to pin a handcuffed suspect to the ground with a knee across the neck and hold that position as the guy becomes unconscious - and then keep up the pressure for another few minutes and stop any attempt at revival.


----------



## Humid (31 May 2020)

dutchie said:


> George Soros and Antifa




Antifa.....the name says it all really


----------



## dutchie (31 May 2020)

Cops and protesters banging heads while bankers sit at home drinking wine with their newly printed Federal Reserve dollars. Same as it ever was.

Michael Krieger
@LibertyBlitz


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## moXJO (31 May 2020)

basilio said:


> True.
> But I'm struggling to see *in what circumstances at all *a police officer should be  "allowed" to pin a handcuffed suspect to the ground with a knee across the neck and hold that position as the guy becomes unconscious - and then keep up the pressure for another few minutes and stop any attempt at revival.



It puts you in a position of power, generally it won't kill them. I know guys that would step on the neck to control. Never heard of a death.
 The black guy was built like a truck and towered over the cops. So control is deemed necessary.
US violence is next level and cops have to use methods in which to best protect themselves. They simply end up dead if they don't. 

However this seemed like a total disregard for welfare of the detainee.
 No police chief wants a black death or it's used to justify the b.s. going on. It also taints the cops that do their job properly.


----------



## Humid (31 May 2020)

moXJO said:


> It puts you in a position of power, generally it won't kill them. I know guys that would step on the neck to control. Never heard of a death.
> The black guy was built like a truck and towered over the cops. So control is deemed necessary.
> US violence is next level and cops have to use methods in which to best protect themselves. They simply end up dead if they don't.
> 
> ...




I know guys on roids too......flogs


----------



## basilio (31 May 2020)

This is a very powerful plea from "Killer Mike". Not just a tweet sound bite.




Andrew Ross Sorkin
@andrewrsorkin
·
11h
I am so moved by the words of
@KillerMike
. I’ve watched and rewatched this. It is worth watching in its entirety no matter your politics, race or anything else. None of it should divide us. #Together
26.5M views
8:19 / 8:19
From
Tim Young


----------



## basilio (31 May 2020)

* George Floyd death: Rapper Killer Mike 'tired of seeing black men die' as he tearfully pleads for calm *
*Killer Mike's speech comes after another night of violent protesting across the US in the wake of George Floyd's death.*
https://news.sky.com/story/george-f...-die-as-he-tearfully-pleads-for-calm-11997658


----------



## wayneL (31 May 2020)

Humid said:


> Antifa.....the name says it all really



The irony do you mean?


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (31 May 2020)

There seems to be more to this George Floyd death issue. Why isn't the cop's badge straight? Was there a scuffle?


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (31 May 2020)

Chronos-Plutus said:


> There seems to be more to this George Floyd death issue. Why isn't the cop's badge straight? Was there a scuffle?
> 
> View attachment 104014



I am only interested in the truth of the story here. Most people would call me light brown (Olive) in skin colour. I might even pass for a Mexican or Indian.


----------



## Humid (31 May 2020)

wayneL said:


> The irony do you mean?



Is it a movement or a label?


----------



## wayneL (31 May 2020)

Humid said:


> Is it a movement or a label?



It's a bunch of malcontented middle class white kids who have no idea what they are protesting, manipulated and fomented by certain individuals with a nefarious agenda.

Dimwits with no capacity for critical thinking.


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (31 May 2020)

Chronos-Plutus said:


> I am only interested in the truth of the story here. Most people would call me light brown (Olive) in skin colour. I might even pass for a Mexican or Indian.





I am not familiar with the US legal system within *Minnesota, *as I am not paid to be concerned*:* however, if I was on the cop's legal team; I would recommend a non-jury trial, if it is possible. The public judge on emotion, and not on reason in these cases.


----------



## Smurf1976 (31 May 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> I disagree regarding the rioting. It's just a reaction from hopelessness. They know their lives don't count.




The stark divide in society and that many are effectively trapped with no hope is inevitably going to escalate other tensions such as race.

Greed is one of those things which can be a force for enormous good up to a point but beyond that becomes a driver of division. The US has gone past that optimum point in my view and did so a long time ago.


----------



## Smurf1976 (31 May 2020)

wayneL said:


> It's a bunch of malcontented middle class white kids who have no idea what they are protesting, manipulated and fomented by certain individuals with a nefarious agenda.
> 
> Dimwits with no capacity for critical thinking.




That would seem to describe a lot of people in a lot of situations......


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## Chronos-Plutus (31 May 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> The stark divide in society and that many are effectively trapped with no hope is inevitably going to escalate other tensions such as race.
> 
> Greed is one of those things which can be a force for enormous good up to a point but beyond that becomes a driver of division. The US has gone past that optimum point in my view and did so a long time ago.




Come now: The US is nothing more than an extension of Western Civilisation; which was spawned in Greece, emulated by the Romans, founded in London; and built in New York.


----------



## Smurf1976 (31 May 2020)

Chronos-Plutus said:


> Come now: The US is nothing more than an extension of Western Civilisation; which was spawned in Greece, emulated by the Romans, founded in London; and built in New York.




You'll have to spend a lot of time looking around London trying to find as many homeless people as you'll almost literally trip over should you walk the streets of San Francisco at night. That's not to say London doesn't have homelessness, but the US is shocking to say the least, it's a truly massive divide through society on the lines of wealth, race and their overall future prospects.

You don't have to go far to notice it, in many cases it changes dramatically within a few minutes and that's walking not driving.


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (31 May 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> You'll have to spend a lot of time looking around London trying to find as many homeless people as you'll almost literally trip over should you walk the streets of San Francisco at night. That's not to say London doesn't have homelessness, but the US is shocking to say the least, it's a truly massive divide through society on the lines of wealth, race and their overall future prospects.
> 
> You don't have to go far to notice it, in many cases it changes dramatically within a few minutes and that's walking not driving.




Nobody cares about anybody buddy. Doesn't matter which country or city that you're from.

Even if you're extremely talented and gifted; doesn't mean ****, unless you sit in the shade of trees that other people have planted.

Not sure why you're bringing up homelessness!


----------



## Smurf1976 (31 May 2020)

Chronos-Plutus said:


> Not sure why you're bringing up homelessness!




Homelessness, racial discrimination, lack of opportunity and a future etc all ultimately contribute to the sense of hopelessness which many feel.

As with anything going badly wrong, there's almost always more than one cause. There's the trigger which is obvious but there's usually a lot more that was wrong behind the scenes beforehand.

I doubt that a single isolated incident would lead to widespread riots if not for underlying tensions that were already present. Same as a single component failure doesn't generally cause a structure to collapse and a single dud trade doesn't send someone broke. For that to happen, there were already serious problems.


----------



## Macquack (31 May 2020)

moXJO said:


> I know guys that would step on the neck to control. Never heard of a death.



You seem to know a lot of thugs. That they haven't murdered anyone yet is a good thing!


----------



## moXJO (1 June 2020)

Macquack said:


> You seem to know a lot of thugs. That they haven't murdered anyone yet is a good thing!



Oh I'm sorry I'm not hanging in the latte and the cardigan wearing, small poodle walking flogs circle.
I knew a lot of security, army, officers and I've been around the fight game for years. Haven't seen that happen and been in that position.
For an officer to do what he did, he would have had to really mean it. 

 The only other possible contributing factor that would do it is drugs/health.

So either he is really guilty or there's a major contributor. He can't use the accidental death defence.


----------



## sptrawler (1 June 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Homelessness, racial discrimination, lack of opportunity and a future etc all ultimately contribute to the sense of hopelessness which many feel.
> 
> As with anything going badly wrong, there's almost always more than one cause. There's the trigger which is obvious but there's usually a lot more that was wrong behind the scenes beforehand.
> 
> I doubt that a single isolated incident would lead to widespread riots if not for underlying tensions that were already present. Same as a single component failure doesn't generally cause a structure to collapse and a single dud trade doesn't send someone broke. For that to happen, there were already serious problems.



Like I said in another thread, don't judge the U.S with an Australian experience bias, its a completely different beast.
You are spot on smurf.


----------



## Knobby22 (1 June 2020)

Chronos-Plutus said:


> Nobody cares about anybody buddy. Doesn't matter which country or city that you're from.
> 
> Even if you're extremely talented and gifted; doesn't mean ****, unless you sit in the shade of trees that other people have planted.
> 
> Not sure why you're bringing up homelessness!



Good to know who our ASF psychopath  is.


----------



## Knobby22 (1 June 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Like I said in another thread, don't judge the U.S with an Australian experience bias, its a completely different beast.
> You are spot on smurf.



Yes spot on.


----------



## qldfrog (1 June 2020)

True


Knobby22 said:


> Yes spot on.



I would also add that imho, and i think for any sensible person, based on  all footages i saw, these are not race riot, but a far left uprising, masked white youths call them Intifada for better words breaking sensible and legitimate demonstration to create as much havoc as possible.
Add powerty and covid19 led new restrictions and unemployment and you leverage looting.
For years many have talked about the US political divide leading to civil war.we could just see the first shots there. So much more than race, actually not much race in that


----------



## Knobby22 (1 June 2020)

qldfrog said:


> True
> 
> I would also add that imho, and i think for any sensible person, based on  all footages i saw, these are not race riot, but a far left uprising, masked white youths call them Intifada for better words breaking sensible and legitimate demonstration to create as much havoc as possible.
> Add powerty and covid19 led new restrictions and unemployment and you leverage looting.
> For years many have talked about the US political divide leading to civil war.we could just see the first shots there. So much more than race, actually not much race in that




You are believing the counter narrative with its own interests.
You can't deny the people have reasons to protest. 
Their grievances are real and frankly something should be done about it.


----------



## Humid (1 June 2020)

40 000000 unemployed.......is a lot of spare time


----------



## Humid (1 June 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> You are believing the counter narrative with its own interests.
> You can't deny the people have reasons to protest.
> Their grievances are real and frankly something should be done about it.




The protesters paradigm


----------



## moXJO (1 June 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> You are believing the counter narrative with its own interests.
> You can't deny the people have reasons to protest.
> Their grievances are real and frankly something should be done about it.



Blacks online are complaining the protests have been hijacked by whites.

The thing is antifa and the right now want the same thing: accelerationism. Riots are the various right and left's militias wet dream.
They will be disappointed when all it leads to nothing.


----------



## qldfrog (1 June 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> You are believing the counter narrative with its own interests.
> You can't deny the people have reasons to protest.
> Their grievances are real and frankly something should be done about it.



I do believe anything but facts, you should try: uncomfortable but self satisfying
I repeat, the current riots are not done by the black community but by the left. whites
Two other points, fully agree with you:
Policing should be held accountable, for all, black white red green or yellow.
And at least /last something concrete done.


----------



## Knobby22 (1 June 2020)

N


moXJO said:


> The thing is antifa and the right now want the same thing: accelerationism. Riots are the various right and left's militias wet dream.
> They will be disappointed when all it leads to nothing.




It will lead to nothing if the far right is allowed to set the agenda.

This is a wake up call for the USA.
If they don't wake up the next riot will be worse as polarisation will continue both left and right. The government after all is meant to serve the people.

The reason Democracy is successful is that it provides a circuit breaker but that means the people have to be listened to.  They need a new deal not a President intent on talking to his base only.


----------



## qldfrog (1 June 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> N
> 
> 
> It will lead to nothing if the far right is allowed to set the agenda.
> ...



And that means no trump no Bidden or Hilary,  (Obama to a lesser extent)


----------



## qldfrog (1 June 2020)

qldfrog said:


> And that means no trump no Bidden or Hilary,  (Obama to a lesser extent)



I believe the US needs a new party, Trump replaced the old republicans, Sanders nearly replaced the old left, neither a good choice for the US but at the very least a move away from the "deep state".
No idea where the light will come from.Maybe in crisis, aka china conflict deep economic crisis, "heros' will arrive...
but always worried of a new"Hitler": National Socialism (Nazi) joined both what we see in the US: national for the right[US first, we are USA ] and socialism for the wall street hatred of the left we see now....
Forget about the caricature dictated by the winners post war, nazis were very successful politicians and managed to gather the people, eliminating not only Jews(wealth stealing) but oppositions from both sides and eliminating business opposition and created a world fist power out of ruins in a record time.
It could come up easily under a new name and flavor in crisis situation


----------



## joeno (1 June 2020)

qldfrog said:


> Terrible thing is that the rioting happening now is actually white based, just the culmination of Trump hate by brain damaged left leading surely toward civil war..
> China, so revered by @joeno and some of our own Australian servants to the CCP, is having the time of its life.




Despite me clearly saying i dont like a lot of their policies repeatedly, not sure why you'd rev up the "must be a CCP shill" strawman. it's old and tiring. Most governments are pretty crap and do bad or stupid things often. The Chinese exceptionalism is part of a wider anti-socialism agenda America has to distract people from their globalist imperialistic ambitions. The point being they're both ****. But America refuses to smell their own ****. And they lie more often and more flagrantly (i.e. force the whole world to it's true). When the Chinese govt or Russian govt lies everybody knows it is a lie.

Pointing out to clear double standards and hypocritical BS doesn't make me or anyone a "servant". Especially when it is a minority view.


----------



## dutchie (1 June 2020)

qldfrog said:


> I believe the US needs a new party, Trump replaced the old republicans, Sanders nearly replaced the old left, neither a good choice for the US but at the very least a move away from the "deep state".
> No idea where the light will come from.Maybe in crisis, aka china conflict deep economic crisis, "heros' will arrive...



Can't see it happening. There is so much money to be made in politics in the US by both sides.
It's a sh@thouse system for the average joe but the elites have so much power (and money) , which is growing, that they will be hard to budge.


----------



## rederob (1 June 2020)

qldfrog said:


> I would also add that imho, and i think for any sensible person, based on  all footages i saw, these are not race riot, but a far left uprising, masked white youths call them Intifada for better words breaking sensible and legitimate demonstration to create as much havoc as possible.



Your opinion, as usual, is at odds with what is occurring.


qldfrog said:


> I repeat, the current riots are not done by the black community but by the left. whites



You have confused opportunistic looting with rioting, but who would be surprised!
That opportunism has also been supplanted by organised criminal activity under the cover of otherwise peaceful demonstrations.  There is a lot of footage showing looters running into stores and running out to be greeted by cars that pull up and then take them away.
Your penchant for political "labels," rather than exercise of reason, renders your posts significantly baseless.


----------



## wayneL (1 June 2020)

May I humbly offer the suggestion that you are all looking in the wrong direction for a villain in all this. All of the issues here is just stuff on the margins which are quite easily solvable with the goodwill of all parties. We plebeians are merely reactive to the factors which affect us, according to our position in the hierarchy of things.

Even political parties and even administrations are largely reactive to greater factors.

The causative  elephant in the room that nobody is even seeing is the role of Central banks, as has been so for centuries. Not just the Fed, all of them.

DYOR


----------



## dutchie (1 June 2020)

rederob said:


> renders your posts significantly baseless.



Well that's the pot calling the kettle black.


----------



## wayneL (1 June 2020)

dutchie said:


> Well that's the pot calling the kettle black.



Yep, that did quite give me a laugh out loud moment.


----------



## rederob (1 June 2020)

dutchie said:


> Well that's the pot calling the kettle black.



This forum deserves better than that!
If you cannot support what you claim, best not to make the claim to begin.
A lot of information is freely available to anyone caring to look for it in relation to matters raised in this thread.
I regularly post links so people can check for themselves, if they have not already, that what I post is reasoned.
Give it a try.


----------



## wayneL (1 June 2020)

rederob said:


> This forum deserves better than that!
> If you cannot support what you claim, best not to make the claim to begin.
> A lot of information is freely available to anyone caring to look for it in relation to matters raised in this thread.
> I regularly post links so people can check for themselves, if they have not already, that what I post is reasoned.
> Give it a try.



 Perhaps you could supply some evidence for your claim then, Robbie?


----------



## qldfrog (1 June 2020)

wayneL said:


> May I humbly offer the suggestion that you are all looking in the wrong direction for a villain in all this. All of the issues here is just stuff on the margins which are quite easily solvable with the goodwill of all parties. We plebeians are merely reactive to the factors which affect us, according to our position in the hierarchy of things.
> 
> Even political parties and even administrations are largely reactive to greater factors.
> 
> ...



Just what people call the deep state, the collision of monstrous interest of power and money, strong uber elites dominating the slaves that we are,not the 1% more like the 0.001%not even sure many Australian would qualify Murdock Packer Rinehart and most of these would be followers of the clique.
I mentioned earlier the Davos clique..you need money AND power and once there, it is a smooth ride
Dyor indeed


----------



## dutchie (1 June 2020)

rederob said:


> This forum deserves better than that!



The forum probably deserves better than both our BS!


----------



## dutchie (1 June 2020)

"If you ain't looting...you ain't black" -Joe Biden


----------



## joeno (1 June 2020)

It looks like the situation with the riots is a case of misery loves company. Can't say the Floyd protesters are right... they're not. The American govt/police are barbaric hypocrites too.

The lib/GOP media wants you to take a side. Refuse to take one as that's how they figuratively sucker you in. They're all bad. All crap.


----------



## Knobby22 (1 June 2020)

dutchie said:


> "If you ain't looting...you ain't black" -Joe Biden



Why are you spreading lies?


----------



## moXJO (1 June 2020)

Too many vested interests. However pallets of bricks are being delivered along with water and milk for tear gas. It's well organized.


----------



## dutchie (1 June 2020)

Antifa to be a designated terrorist group.

AG Bill Barr Instructs All 56 FBI Task Forces To Apprehend and Charge “Violent Radical Agitators”


----------



## dutchie (1 June 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Why are you spreading lies?



My apologies.

The following is a joke and not to be taken seriously:

"If you ain't looting...you ain't black" -Joe Biden


----------



## rederob (1 June 2020)

dutchie said:


> "If you ain't looting...you ain't black" -Joe Biden



"Quoting" a blatant lie is not helpful to your already poor credibility.
Biden never, ever, made a comment like that.


----------



## dutchie (1 June 2020)

rederob said:


> "Quoting" a blatant lie is not helpful to your already poor credibility.
> Biden never, ever, made a comment like that.



lol


----------



## moXJO (1 June 2020)

rederob said:


> "Quoting" a blatant lie is not helpful



Lol good one Rob.



Just remember: "You're not black if you vote trump".


----------



## moXJO (1 June 2020)

Let's talk politics.
State guy was killed in:

Democrat prosecutor.

Democrat chief of police.

Democrat mayor 

Democrat governor.

Worse affected areas: Democrat and they are failing at containing the violence.


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (2 June 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Homelessness, racial discrimination, lack of opportunity and a future etc all ultimately contribute to the sense of hopelessness which many feel.
> 
> As with anything going badly wrong, there's almost always more than one cause. There's the trigger which is obvious but there's usually a lot more that was wrong behind the scenes beforehand.
> 
> I doubt that a single isolated incident would lead to widespread riots if not for underlying tensions that were already present. Same as a single component failure doesn't generally cause a structure to collapse and a single dud trade doesn't send someone broke. For that to happen, there were already serious problems.




On what levels would you like to discuss homelessness?

Is Earth but a speck of dust floating in an infinite void?


----------



## moXJO (2 June 2020)

Second coroner's report by the family shows he died from asphyxiation.


----------



## dutchie (2 June 2020)

Powerful: Protesters Spell Out 'Love' With Burning Homes And Businesses







https://babylonbee.com/news/powerful-protesters-spell-out-love-with-burning-homes-and-businesses

Note to: rederob and Knobby22
I understand you don't have a good grasp of humour so I'm just letting you know that 
the above is a joke and I do not claim that this actually happened.


----------



## sptrawler (2 June 2020)

Some protesters must be taking shopping trolleys with them.
https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-...2-p54yrj.html?js-chunk-not-found-refresh=true
From the article:
_As the deadline to get off the streets approached, bands of protesters marched through Manhattan and Brooklyn, and police simultaneously responded to numerous reports of roving groups smashing their way into shops and emptying them of merchandise.

The doors of Macy's flagship Manhattan store were breached, and police pulled two handcuffed men out and put them in a van.

People rushed into a Nike store in Manhattan and carried out armloads of clothing. Near Rockefeller Centre, storefront windows were smashed and multiple people arrested. Wreckage littered the inside of an AT&T store.

Video posted on social media showed some protesters arguing with people breaking windows, urging them to stop, but instances of vandalism and smash-and-grab thefts mounted as the night went on.

"We worked hard to build up the business, and within a second, someone does this," said the owner of a ransacked Manhattan smoke shop, who identified himself only by the name Harri. "Really bad."

After largely peaceful protests Sunday, groups of people poured down the sidewalks in Manhattan's chic Soho neighbourhood and other areas overnight, breaking into Rolex, Kate Spade and Prada boutiques and electronics stores. Hundreds of people were arrested.
"People are doing this so next time, before they think about trying to kill another black person, they're going to be like, 'Damn, we don't want them out here doing this ... again'," New York City resident Sean Jones said as he watched the destruction.

"It's disturbing because I'm 100 per cent behind the protesters and against police brutality and bad cops killing people of colour whenever they fricking want to, but this is a different story," said Ruby Packard, a teacher and longtime SoHo resident_.


----------



## basilio (4 June 2020)

dutchie said:


> Powerful: Protesters Spell Out 'Love' With Burning Homes And Businesses
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Indeed it is a joke Dutchie.   We can see that..It's about on par with "Jews in the oven jokes "  pictures of smiling "niggers" eating watermelons  (cause those folks all looove watermelon...!)  and a score of other nasty, hateful tropes.

If that is what you think is "funny" we take on board your particular tastes.


----------



## basilio (4 June 2020)

The looting and violence is beyond xhite.  That doesn't change one little bit the raw anger of  millions of people  who saw a  slow live public killing of a handcuffed black guy  by a police officer who pulled him up for passing a dodgy $20 bill.

It doesn't change one little bit a President who uses the the police to tear gas a *peaceful *protest away at a church *to make the most monumentally  hypocritical sermon on Justice in the name of Christ ever achieved.*

It doesn't change a US society where tens of millions of ardent Trumpists  and associated White Supremacists with armories of  assault rifles are in the wings waiting to "take back" their country. 

It doesn't change a US  that is still  raging with COVID 19 and will almost certainly have another explosion of cases as various States open us and the probable contagion from these rallies takes hold.

So on a practical note this might be a good time to reconsider ones weighting in US securities/ stocks. They may also burn in the conflagration.


----------



## moXJO (4 June 2020)

basilio said:


> "niggers"



Don't use that word, honkey.
Even in reference. Reread your "How to be PC" manual.


----------



## moXJO (4 June 2020)

basilio said:


> The looting and violence is beyond xhite.  That doesn't change one little bit the raw anger of  millions of people  who saw a  slow live public killing of a handcuffed black guy  by a police officer who pulled him up for passing a dodgy $20 bill.
> 
> It doesn't change one little bit a President who uses the the police to tear gas a *peaceful *protest away at a church *to make the most monumentally  hypocritical sermon on Justice in the name of Christ ever achieved.*
> 
> ...



This is what change looks like. You think a Biden,Bush, Obama or Hillary are going to get fundamental structural changes?
It's just more of the same. It takes a scumbag like Trump to incite enough rage to make huge leaps. Still don't think the US is there yet.

Trump needs to burn it down. Wether through idiocy or action. I can't see him wining November. A shame as I was enjoying watching him destroy entrenched systems.


----------



## dutchie (4 June 2020)

basilio said:


> Indeed it is a joke Dutchie.   We can see that..It's about on par with "Jews in the oven jokes "  pictures of smiling "niggers" eating watermelons  (cause those folks all looove watermelon...!)  and a score of other nasty, hateful tropes.
> 
> If that is what you think is "funny" we take on board your particular tastes.




Excellent virtue signalling there basilio.

For your records, I think this is funny too.


----------



## wayneL (4 June 2020)

basilio said:


> Indeed it is a joke Dutchie.   We can see that..It's about on par with "Jews in the oven jokes "  pictures of smiling "niggers" eating watermelons  (cause those folks all looove watermelon...!)  and a score of other nasty, hateful tropes.
> 
> If that is what you think is "funny" we take on board your particular tastes.



Bolsheviks never do understand irony.

What isn't funny is that these imbeciles are hurting the wrong people, people who are equally horrified, often their own people struggling to make a life.

What is funny is that even virtue signalling corporates haven't been immune from the looting heathen.

Peaceful demonstration is intrinsic to our liberal society and notion of free speech, rioting, violence and looting is not, it is criminal.


----------



## SirRumpole (4 June 2020)

wayneL said:


> Peaceful demonstration is intrinsic to our liberal society and notion of free speech, rioting, violence and looting is not, it is criminal.




Indeed so, but some people often lump the two groups into one in order to villify them both don't you think ?


----------



## sptrawler (4 June 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Indeed so, but some people often lump the two groups into one in order to villify them both don't you think ?



I think a lot of it is, people just love an opportunity to behave badly, mob rule has been around since Adam was a boy.


----------



## moXJO (4 June 2020)

The protest got hijacked.
Media is trying to say it's ok to loot because of the built up rage.
No it's fking  not. 
George's family called for restraint as did a lot from blm. 



> We are reaching out to family and friends to share our parents’ story.
> 
> On May 29th, after months of being shut down due to COVID-19, Englewood Beauty Supply was getting ready to finally reopen and serve its community in the South Side of Chicago. Our father had spent hours with his employees preparing the store in order to ensure the safety of his employees and customers, and despite his own health issues which put him at high risk, he decided that it was important to open up his store to support not only his livelihood but his employees’ livelihoods as well.
> 
> ...




Plenty of lives being affected from hateful little shtbags that turned this into a political theatre.


----------



## wayneL (4 June 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I think a lot of it is, people just love an opportunity to behave badly, mob rule has been around since Adam was a boy.



As we are seeing now in London, the copycat thugs are kicking off attacking No 10, because?????

Well, it *is because the radical leftists in the Labour Party have been fomenting violence for quite some time now.


----------



## sptrawler (4 June 2020)

wayneL said:


> As we are seeing now in London, the copycat thugs are kicking off attacking No 10, because?????
> 
> Well, it *is because the radical leftists in the Labour Party have been fomenting violence for quite some time now.



I don't think the hard working majority in the U.S or U.K will agree with this sort of behaviour, they know one way or another it is them who pay for it, either by higher taxes, higher prices or a combination of both.
I think it will just cause a ground swell of anger, from the silent majority.
Just my opinion.


----------



## chiff (4 June 2020)

I don't know if these radical people belong to any political party ,but when they get the chance anarchists and vandals like a bit  of action.


----------



## qldfrog (4 June 2020)

FWIW, France is quite "ahead" in term of being a neo socialist society, full of the worst socialist concepts;
Based on my previous experiences there, scenes of massive demonstrations and rioting looting usually end up with a very strong conservative move at the polls.
May 68 so veneered there by the left wings ended up with emergency elections and a very conservative government..to the astounded left wing intelligentsia ..
But ? But?


----------



## basilio (4 June 2020)

moXJO said:


> The protest got hijacked.
> Media is trying to say it's ok to loot because of the built up rage.
> No it's fking not.
> George's family called for restraint as did a lot from blm.




Lets straighten a few things up.
Yes Georges family as well as other prominent activists  (Killer Mike ) called for peaceful demonstrations. There is no value in trashing their own communities.
*
Which media have tried to say it was ok to  trash and loot ? *Be really interested to see evidence for that assertion.

Yes the protests have been hijacked.  Would it surprise anyone to find that White Supremacists groups have decided to stir things up and basically help turn the protests into a xshitstorm they can then attack ? 

*Three accused of conspiring to spark violence during protests in Las Vegas*
Three Nevada men with ties to right-wing extremists have been arrested and charged with attempting to incite violence during protests in Las Vegas over the death of George Floyd.

The Associated Press reported that the men face a host of federal and state charges after being arrested on the way to a protest in downtown Las Vegas with Molotov cocktails and unregistered firearms. The men reportedly planned to instigate a riot by causing destruction at a peaceful protest in the city.

“People have a right to peacefully protest. These men are agitators and instigators. Their point was to hijack the protests into violence,” U.S. Attorney Nicholas Trutanich told the AP.

The men are reportedly charged with terrorism, felony conspiracy and explosive possession charges in state court, and also face unregistered firearm charges as well as charges of conspiracy to cause damage by fire or explosive in federal court.
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-...ring-to-spark-violence-during-protests-in-las
https://www.snopes.com/ap/2020/05/31/officials-see-extremist-groups-disinformation-in-protests/


----------



## sptrawler (4 June 2020)

basilio said:


> Lets straighten a few things up.
> Yes Georges family as well as other prominent activists  (Killer Mike ) called for peaceful demonstrations. There is no value in trashing their own communities.
> *
> Which media have tried to say it was ok to  trash and loot ? *Be really interested to see evidence for that assertion.
> ...



Bas you like bagging the coalition here and in the UK, Im not sure where Trump sits because I dont follow US politics, but I really think you have to take a deep breath and really ask yourself how can we make it better and how we pay for it.
Just a thought.
I suggested a film for those who connected with the recent riots.
For you I would suggest watching 'Kursk', it may give you a perspective on what is important, rather than a belief .
Just my opinion, but the very thing that makes us the amazing country we are, is the very same thing that is going to destroy it.


----------



## Smurf1976 (5 June 2020)

wayneL said:


> Peaceful demonstration is intrinsic to our liberal society and notion of free speech, rioting, violence and looting is not, it is criminal.



Indeed it is very fundamental.

A problem with all this "race" stuff though is that healing just isn't allowed with the issue brought up at every possible opportunity that black and white is not equal. Same goes for gender, if there's an opportunity to create division and throw stones well there are many who are sure not to let it pass by unused. So long as that continues, I can only assume someone's gaining from the conflict either politically or financially.

Black, white, male, female - dump the lot and just replace the word with "human" and then the ridiculousness of the sentence shows rather a lot of things for the racism and sexism the really are despite claiming to be the opposite.

If the aim is peace then we need to move on. You don't fix a marriage by constantly bringing up the affair that someone had 20 years ago. You don't fix relations between employer and employees by constantly bringing up the now resolved dispute over pay and conditions. You don't fix racism and sexism by constantly finding new problems. And so on.

If the aim is peace, you fix the current issues, move on and leave the past behind.


----------



## qldfrog (5 June 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> If the aim is peace, you fix the current issues, move on and leave the past behind.



I believe the "left" in the absence of a better word has long ago dismissed pretending aiming for peace.
Long gone is Martin Luther King dream.


----------



## Knobby22 (5 June 2020)

qldfrog said:


> I believe the "left" in the absence of a better word has long ago dismissed pretending aiming for peace.
> Long gone is Martin Luther King dream.



There are millions of people demonstrating  peaceably.


----------



## basilio (5 June 2020)

dutchie said:


> Excellent virtue signalling there basilio.
> 
> For your records, I think this is funny too.
> 
> View attachment 104277




Nah Dutchie. Just calling out hateful tropes. 
Just like the ones you seem to enjoy ..


----------



## basilio (5 June 2020)

The smashing of the peaceful demonstration  with tear gas in Lafayette Square to enable Trump to give his Sermon on the Mount outside  St Johns Church has resulted in a  law suit against Trump , Barr and other administration officials for violation of 1st and 4th amendments riots.

An interesting aside on the official denials that the police didn't use tear gar but instead pepper spray. 
This is effectively the same difference as  "Terminating with extreme prejudice" and killing  or  *Terminological inexactitude *and lie.

Associated Press put out an explainer on "tear gas"

_An Army research institute paper  in 2009 cites riot-control agents and tear gas interchangeably. It says tear gas is something of a misnomer, because the agents tend not to be gaseous and modern compounds can affect a wider variety of organs as well as the eyes, lungs and digestive tract that are historically the targets of tear gas.

Dr. Sven-Eric Jordt researches tear gas agents and chemical exposure injuries in his lab at the Duke University School of Medicine’s Integrated Toxicology and Environmental Health Program. 

He said newer compounds, which may have been used in the “pepper ball” projectiles deployed at the protest, might or might not fit a traditional definition of tear gas but are as potent and come with scant research on their safety. Any difference is semantic, he said.

“There’s been very little research on tear gas being done in the United States,” he said, and “no research backing up the use levels that are deployed now.”
https://apnews.com/ccacf738fb1875bbb990b464e51b4e0f
_
*https://www.buzzfeednews.com/articl...es-matter-lawsuit-police-tear-gas-white-house*_
_



Jordt said the two main categories of crowd-clearing irritants — known as CS and OC — both activate the pain-sensing nervous system sharply, which in turn can make the body more susceptible to a virus. “I’m just very concerned this might increase the likelihood of infection” in the coronavirus pandemic, he said, or trigger more extreme reactions in people who have the virus but are not showing symptoms.



“To use these highly irritating agents on protesters is not a good idea,” he said. “It’s really shocking that it is used to that extent.”


----------



## wayneL (5 June 2020)

This thread is misnamed, it should be :

"A radical leftist's perspective of racism and white privilege in the u.s.”


----------



## qldfrog (5 June 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> There are millions of people demonstrating  peaceably.



True, demonstrating against police violence or against violence again black only.
you know as well as i what is the push there.
If that guy had been white..and many white are killed by police too,you would not have heard a thing, the only example you will find of outrage is that poor aussie lady: woman and Australian with our gov agitating helped to see justice..well kind of..


----------



## dutchie (5 June 2020)

basilio said:


> Nah Dutchie. Just calling out hateful tropes.
> Just like the ones you seem to enjoy ..



Nah, Virtual Signalling.


----------



## basilio (5 June 2020)

qldfrog said:


> If that guy had been white..and many white are killed by police too,you would not have heard a thing, the only example you will find of outrage is that poor aussie lady: woman and Australian with our gov agitating helped to see justice..well kind of..




Let's do a thought experiment here qldfrog.

Imagine a black policemen picking up a white person for using a dodgy $20 note, handcuffing him and then  while he was on the ground kneeling on his neck and slowly killing him as per George Floyd. 

There are still 3 other police standing guard and score of witnesses imploring the cop to let the guy breathe.

What sort of outrage do you imagine that scenario would have created ?


----------



## basilio (5 June 2020)

dutchie said:


> Nah, Virtual Signalling.



"Virtual" signalling  indeed ..

Very clever Dutchie....


----------



## Smurf1976 (5 June 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> There are millions of people demonstrating peaceably.



There certainly are but there are also those who keep picking at the scab and just won’t allow the wounds to heal.

If the aim is peace then sort out current imbalances, move on and say nothing further.

Consider what happened after WW2. The war was won and it wasn’t long at all before we were trading and having sensible diplomatic relations with Germany, Japan etc and nobody’s arguing about it today. 

Such is the benefit of sorting it out and moving on rather than coming up with an endless list of problems and demanding that the other side apologises, an approach which keeps the wounds open and fans the flames completely unnecessarily.


----------



## SirRumpole (5 June 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> There certainly are but there are also those who keep picking at the scab and just won’t allow the wounds to heal.
> 
> If the aim is peace then sort out current imbalances, move on and say nothing further.
> 
> ...




Agreed, however an average of 10+ deaths in custody per year for the last 30 years indicates something systemic in my view.

Of course you would have to look at each case to see the cause, and I certainly would not blame police/governments without knowing the circumstances , but I think it's fair to assume that some of these deaths would be the result of racism/neglect, others may have been provoked but the latter reason rarely gets an airing because its not PC to do so.

When dealing with an effective clash of cultures its very hard for both sides to see the other's point of view.


----------



## wayneL (5 June 2020)

basilio said:


> Let's do a thought experiment here qldfrog.
> 
> Imagine a black policemen picking up a white person for using a dodgy $20 note, handcuffing him and then  while he was on the ground kneeling on his neck and slowly killing him as per George Floyd.
> 
> ...



There is worse happening by a factor of 10 times in South Africa. Nobody gives a ****.

As far as the United States is concerned we do have a recent example of the Australian born woman being shot in the stomach.

There were some outrage, quite rightly because of the circumstances (irrespective of the races of the people involved), but no demonstrations no violence, and no looting.

This is not because of the races involved, but because of the politics around the races involved.

Perceived racism is deeply political, much more so than the actual incidence of such


----------



## SirRumpole (5 June 2020)

wayneL said:


> There is worse happening by a factor of 10 times in South Africa. Nobody gives a ****.
> 
> As far as the United States is concerned we do have a recent example of the Australian born woman being shot in the stomach.
> 
> ...




Funny that no one suggested that Justines murder was a racist act. Its hard to find another reason for it though.


----------



## basilio (5 June 2020)

basilio said:


> Let's do a thought experiment here qldfrog.
> 
> Imagine a black policemen picking up a white person for using a dodgy $20 note, handcuffing him and then  while he was on the ground kneeling on his neck and slowly killing him as per George Floyd.
> 
> ...




Lets clarify this thought experiment.
It happens in the same city George Floyd was killed not another country.

Lets remember it is recorded in real time with many people watching the slow death of the white guy under the knee of a black policemen and  millions of others seeing it after the event.


----------



## basilio (5 June 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Funny that no one suggested that Justines murder was a racist act. Its hard to find another reason for it though.




Racist ? I don't think so.  It was just a  criminally stupid  quick response from a police officer.  
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/07/justine-damond-death-mohamed-noor-minneapolis


----------



## moXJO (5 June 2020)

basilio said:


> Lets straighten a few things up.
> Yes Georges family as well as other prominent activists  (Killer Mike ) called for peaceful demonstrations. There is no value in trashing their own communities.
> *
> Which media have tried to say it was ok to  trash and loot ? *Be really interested to see evidence for that assertion.
> ...




Darlena Cunha from time magazine did.

The violence was whipped up by idiots aiming to create political tensions.

Democrat run city. Not trump run.

There is very little white supremacy involvement at this stage.


----------



## wayneL (5 June 2020)

basilio said:


> Racist ? I don't think so.  It was just a  criminally stupid  quick response from a police officer.
> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/07/justine-damond-death-mohamed-noor-minneapolis



Ah so. Interesting spin.

Nothing more need be said here.


----------



## IFocus (5 June 2020)

The killing of a unarmed black African male by a white police officer has been repeated across the US for a long time.

The reasons are complex but indifference and racism play a significant part. 

I am not aware of anyone accepting the treatment of Floyd perhaps some here are?

The answer is for the disenfranchised to vote unfortunately they wont and some state voting rules actively work against this group for good reason if you are a Republican.

Not much will change press replay and watch this all unfold again some time in the future.

BTW there isn't a left wing in the US, nada, zip SFA any opinion of its existence is seriously brain dead.


----------



## wayneL (5 June 2020)

IFocus said:


> BTW there isn't a left wing in the US, nada, zip SFA any opinion of its existence is seriously brain dead.



Going into comedy?


----------



## IFocus (5 June 2020)

wayneL said:


> Going into comedy?




Nominate a left wing political party with influence?

I think I will laugh longest........


----------



## wayneL (5 June 2020)

IFocus said:


> Nominate a left wing political party with influence?
> 
> I think I will laugh longest........



Democrats, sans DNC.

The DNC is the only thing preventing Bolshevism.... Dem nominees were riddled with them.


----------



## basilio (5 June 2020)

moXJO said:


> There is very little white supremacy involvement at this stage.




Plenty of evidence to indicate that is not correct.

Briefing
*3 self-proclaimed members of the far-right 'boogaloo' movement were arrested on domestic terrorism charges for trying to spark violence during protests*
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/...loyd-protest-riot-conspiracy-2020-6?r=US&IR=T

*Far-right and white supremacist involvement*





One of the protesters in Columbus, Ohio holds up a poster that reads: "End White Supremacy Now"
On May 29, Minnesota Governor Tim Walz noted then-unconfirmed reports of white supremacists as well as drug cartels taking advantage of the protests.[233] Although reports that all or most of the individuals arrested were not from Minnesota turned out to be false, the presence of white supremacist groups aiming to exploit the protests to incite violence was confirmed the following day by Department of Public Safety Commissioner John Harrington.[234]

On May 30, Minnesota officials including Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison, Governor Tim Walz, Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey, and St. Paul Mayor Melvin Carter stated they believed that white nationalists were using the protests as cover for inciting violence,[235] and that Minnesota officials were monitoring the ongoing far-right online effort to incite violence.[236] On the other hand, Howard Graves, an analyst at the SPLC stated on May 31 that he did not see clear evidence of "white supremacists or militiamen" heading out to "burn and loot."[237] The University of St. Thomas' Lisa Waldner, an analyst of the American white supremacist and anarchist movements, has noted that the goal of many of the individuals involved in the destruction of Minneapolis was to create chaos so as to pursue their own agendas.[238] White nationalist Facebook groups reportedly began urging members to "get their loot on."[235] In at least 20 cities across the country as of May 31, members of hate groups and far-right organizations filmed themselves at the demonstrations.[237]

_Vice_ and New York University's Reiss Center[236] reported that far-right accelerationists, who aim to exacerbate tensions and speed up the supposed coming of a "civil war," have urged followers online to use the protests as an occasion to carry out violence; an eco-fascist Telegram channel with almost 2500 subscribers posted on the 28th that "a riot would be the perfect place to commit a murder."[239] Analysis by _Vice_ and the _New York Times_[237] also noted the proliferation of chatter on 4chan hailing the violence as the beginning of a "race war." Such tactics match a long running history of accelerationists exploiting moments of political and/or civil unrest[239] to, in the words of historian Stuart Wexler, "produce racial polarization and eventual retaliation" which would then swell the ranks of whites supporting white supremacist violence, ultimately leading to a race war that they hope will "purify" America through ethnic cleansing.[240] Analogous tactics were used by their ideological forebears in the 1960s,[240] and accelerationist ideas are proliferated on web forums and have inspired various white supremacist acts of violence, being featured also in the manifesto of the perpetrator of the Christchurch massacre.[236][241]

The presence of Boogaloo Bois, an armed anti-government far-right extremist movement that seeks a Second American Civil War, noticeable for their Hawaiian shirts, have also been reported at the protests.[239] Administrators of the Facebook page Big Igloo Bois, a splinter of the Boogaloo movement, called for members to attend the protests with one administrator stating, "come in peace, prepare for there to be violence."[242] While some of the Boogaloo Bois have espoused white supremacist views, other groups, such as the Big Igloo Bois, have aimed to make common cause with the Black Lives Matter movement due to their shared mistrust of the police.[243][236]

According to a Twitter spokesperson, an account pretending to belong to a national “antifa” organization and pushing violent rhetoric related to ongoing protests has been linked to the white nationalist group Identity Evropa, which also calls itself the American Identity Movement.[244]

*On 3 June, Three men who identified with the Boogaloo movement were arrested in Las Vegas for reportedly plotting to commit violent acts to incite a riot, and were arrested on terrorism charges. The three men also had military experience, and were plotting to attack economic targets prior to the protests in May.[245]*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Floyd_protests


----------



## basilio (5 June 2020)

I came across this story while researching the incidence of  white supremacist infiltration of the George Floyd demonstrations.
Well worth reading the full story and in particular recognising the deliberate lies constructed by right wing extremists to inflame the situation.

*Trump Boosts Video of Dallas Clash Edited to Cast Machete-Wielding Vigilante as Victim*




	

		
			
		

		
	
Robert Mackey
June 1 2020, 1:28 p.m.
The danger of relying on fragmentary video clips posted on social media by politically motivated witnesses to news events was on full display in Dallas on Saturday night. Two witnesses, a Black Lives Matter protester and a right-wing video blogger, both captured a shocking act of violence on camera. But while the protester’s raw footage, which gave a more complete picture of the incident, was not widely seen, the video blogger’s edited version, posted on Twitter with a misleading caption, was viewed more than 30 million times in 24 hours.

Among the Twitter users who unthinkingly swallowed the blogger’s misleading video — which was edited to remove footage of a white man who was beaten charging at black and white protesters with a machete before they pummeled him — was the president of the United States, who tweeted about the clip with an outraged call for “LONG TERM jail sentences” for the protesters.

The edited clip was the work of Elijah Schaffer, a freelance producer for Glenn Beck’s Blaze TV and a pro-Trump political activist who hosts a YouTube talk show dedicated to mocking left-wing protesters.
https://theintercept.com/2020/05/31...dited-cast-machete-wielding-vigilante-victim/


----------



## basilio (5 June 2020)

Further videos on what happened to George Floyd.

*New Video Shows 3 Cops Kneeling on George Floyd as He Lay Dying*
*“I can’t breathe, man,” Floyd cries out to the cops in the video. “Please. Please let me stand.”*
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/...cops-kneeling-on-george-floyd-as-he-lay-dying


----------



## moXJO (5 June 2020)

basilio said:


> Plenty of evidence to indicate that is not correct.
> 
> Briefing
> *3 self-proclaimed members of the far-right 'boogaloo' movement were arrested on domestic terrorism charges for trying to spark violence during protests*
> ...



3 guys huh....


----------



## Knobby22 (6 June 2020)

wayneL said:


> Ah so. Interesting spin.
> 
> Nothing more need be said here.



Because you have nothing except the use of spin to attack.
A very poor response.


----------



## wayneL (6 June 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Because you have nothing except the use of spin to attack.
> A very poor response.



Sometimes a well thought out response is futile, sometimes pointing to the obvious is sufficient.


----------



## moXJO (6 June 2020)

Let's face it. This thread is less about BLM and more about hitting his orange highness.


----------



## SirRumpole (6 June 2020)

moXJO said:


> Let's face it. This thread is less about BLM and more about hitting his orange highness.




HOH turned it into a popularity contest by threatening to send in the Army to pump his own ego and make himself look like a strong dictator. He should have stayed out of it, it's essentially a State issue unless the States lose control of the situation.


----------



## IFocus (6 June 2020)

wayneL said:


> Democrats, sans DNC.
> 
> The DNC is the only thing preventing Bolshevism.... Dem nominees were riddled with them.




Democrats........pure comedy, just another moneyed donor directed political party, how much did Clinton / Obama give to the banks again? $7 hourly rate if you are lucky, no wage growth for how many decades? no national health care USA richest country in the world........yep them Dems are on the way to Bolshevism.

Oh thats before you start talking about transfer of wealth.


----------



## SirRumpole (6 June 2020)

IFocus said:


> Democrats........pure comedy, just another moneyed donor directed political party, how much did Clinton / Obama give to the banks again? $7 hourly rate if you are lucky, no wage growth for how many decades?* no national health care *USA richest country in the world........yep them Dems are on the way to Bolshevism.
> 
> Oh thats before you start talking about transfer of wealth.




Remember ObamaCare ? The Republicans voted it down.


----------



## basilio (6 June 2020)

moXJO said:


> 3 guys huh....




Couldn't get past the first story and check out the remainder of the response ?


----------



## moXJO (6 June 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> HOH turned it into a popularity contest by threatening to send in the Army to pump his own ego and make himself look like a strong dictator. He should have stayed out of it, it's essentially a State issue unless the States lose control of the situation.



He is an idiot, yes. 
Doesn't change the fact this started in a deeply democrat state. 
Turning this political to the point it's just one side misses the point of systemic racism.


----------



## moXJO (6 June 2020)

basilio said:


> Couldn't get past the first story and check out the remainder of the response ?



Oh 10 guys perhaps.


----------



## moXJO (6 June 2020)

IFocus said:


> Democrats........pure comedy, just another moneyed donor directed political party, how much did Clinton / Obama give to the banks again? $7 hourly rate if you are lucky, no wage growth for how many decades? no national health care USA richest country in the world........yep them Dems are on the way to Bolshevism.
> 
> Oh thats before you start talking about transfer of wealth.



According to them they are gushing socialists. US is built on political lies.


----------



## basilio (6 June 2020)

moXJO said:


> Oh 10 guys perhaps.




How many people killed ArchDuke Ferdinand in 1914 ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boogaloo_movement
https://theconversation.com/why-are-white-supremacists-protesting-the-deaths-of-black-people-140046
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/03/us/boogaloo-extremist-protests-invs/index.html


----------



## dutchie (6 June 2020)

Kendall Jenner, what a loser. (check the shadow).


----------



## moXJO (6 June 2020)

basilio said:


> How many people killed ArchDuke Ferdinand in 1914 ?
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boogaloo_movement
> https://theconversation.com/why-are-white-supremacists-protesting-the-deaths-of-black-people-140046
> https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/03/us/boogaloo-extremist-protests-invs/index.html



They are not a credible threat.
Bunch of yobs grouped together.
Antifa on the other hand:
Infiltrated key positions.
Media on side.
Democrats on side.
Billionaires on side.
Violent network that trained in ME.
Use cells.
Highly financed.


----------



## dutchie (6 June 2020)

dutchie said:


> Kendall Jenner, what a loser. (check the shadow).




More virtual signalling, basilio  lol


----------



## IFocus (6 June 2020)

dutchie said:


> More virtual signalling, basilio  lol




TBH Dutchie different group that mob money privilege beyond any sensible reasoning how many times have you seen these people saying about the Virus "we are all in this together" from their gated mansions / private islands / private yatchs.


----------



## IFocus (6 June 2020)

moXJO said:


> They are not a credible threat.
> Bunch of yobs grouped together.
> Antifa on the other hand:
> Infiltrated key positions.
> ...




Would the anti fascist movement be anywhere near mainstream as white supremacists? 

As in "there are many fine people there".

Genuine question Mo, I don't know.


----------



## wayneL (6 June 2020)

IFocus said:


> Democrats........pure comedy, just another moneyed donor directed political party, how much did Clinton / Obama give to the banks again? $7 hourly rate if you are lucky, no wage growth for how many decades? no national health care USA richest country in the world........yep them Dems are on the way to Bolshevism.
> 
> Oh thats before you start talking about transfer of wealth.



That was part of my point. DNC is so far preventing the AOCs and Bernie's taking the Dems too far left.


----------



## orr (6 June 2020)

Pretty succinct from a couple of 'whities' from 50yrs ago;
'Four dead in Ohio'


Ten years before Gill Scott Heron(not white) nailed it with 'B Movie'
'_Human Rights, Gay's Rights, Civil Rights, Womens Rights'
'It's all wrong... Call in the Cavalry to disrupt this perception of Freedom gone wild_'

If Only Howard Zinn had lived to see this moment; To see mad dog Mattis in furious agreement with Noam Chomsky... even if only on something as inconsequential as the incumbent President.


----------



## moXJO (6 June 2020)

IFocus said:


> Would the anti fascist movement be anywhere near mainstream as white supremacists?
> 
> As in "there are many fine people there".
> 
> Genuine question Mo, I don't know.



US antifa is actually disliked by their European brethren. US is commies in cosplay. The enemy is everyone who disagrees with them. Follow the script or get eaten alive.

White supremacists are a dying breed. They are entrenched in certain US towns.
 The left/right divide creates this view that it's a growing problem. I'd say hatred is.
Russia is actually one of the growth countries where white supremacists are gaining traction.

These days if you disagree with something you are a labeled one. So I suppose it depends on your leanings on how entrenched you find it.
It's widely used as a tactic to silence opposition.


----------



## macca (6 June 2020)

And now we have the ratbags in Oz using the USA event as an excuse to have a get together and smash a few things and people.

Oz has and is spending a lot of money trying to keep everyone alive and get the place going again, now we have thousands of $$ being wasted supervising the protesters

Here in OZ Less blacks die in custody in % terms than non blacks but, Hey if we use facts we can't get away with all this fun

Quote

Aboriginal Australians in custody are less likely to die than non-Aboriginal Australians in custody.

An Australian Government publication, The Health of Australia’s Prisoners: 2015, states: “Indigenous Australians were no more likely to die in custody than non-Indigenous Australians” and “With just over one-quarter (27 per cent) of prisoners in custody being Indigenous, and 17 per cent of deaths in custody being Indigenous, Indigenous prisoners were under-represented.”

https://www.news.com.au/national/bl...s/news-story/9c06a20372ff0b828b18b1222324b659


----------



## orr (6 June 2020)

Any one here have an understanding of Spike Lee's *1989* 'Do The Right Thing' ???  
Spoiler alert ...a chock hold death of a black man climax's  the film. Who would of thought?

Quite a few of above seem not to have been paying much  attention; for the bulk of their lives, to what's important.

and while we're here,  'hat's off ' to the young Rosie Perez(opening credits) great work..you got to 'Fight the Power'
She just so happens to turn up in the Netflix psychedelic doco 'Have a good trip'... some hope there.

Oh and macca 27 % plus of the prison population; and and they make what percentage of the Australian population? ... I'll make it a easy for you..3% son. Someone clever would have realised they were stepping '_big sloppy one_' there, before they hit the 'post reply' .
Maybe you need to think a little on those above percentages. not that your thoughts appear to be worth that much.


----------



## wayneL (7 June 2020)

Only the left understands anything, Orr.

They know feelings are more important than data and science. Twitter was entirely correct to ban FBI statistics as hate speech, and they know covid only spreads among church goers, restaurant patrons, and inveterate drunkards that like to hang out in pubs and punt on the horses. They know covid won't infect the baying leftist mobs, they know they won't take it home and be "granny killers"

Kudos to you, I bow to your superior visceral quotient (sic)


----------



## moXJO (7 June 2020)

How were the rallies all those in support?
You did all go right?

I have to attend one latter today.


----------



## SirRumpole (7 June 2020)

moXJO said:


> How were the rallies all those in support?
> You did all go right?
> 
> I have to attend one latter today.




Irresponsible in the circumstances.

Fine at another time when there is no pandemic.


----------



## sptrawler (7 June 2020)

macca said:


> And now we have the ratbags in Oz using the USA event as an excuse to have a get together and smash a few things and people.
> 
> Oz has and is spending a lot of money trying to keep everyone alive and get the place going again, now we have thousands of $$ being wasted supervising the protesters
> 
> ...



Maybe we could have a protest rally, to reduce black crime rates?
It would have a better chance of improving the outcomes for blacks IMO.


----------



## moXJO (7 June 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Irresponsible in the circumstances.
> 
> Fine at another time when there is no pandemic.



You seen the shops?
Won't make a lick of difference.
Was out Saturday, extremely busy and crowded.

I was asked by friends in the community. Interesting that their reasons differ from the media vomit.


----------



## sptrawler (7 June 2020)

moXJO said:


> You seen the shops?
> Won't make a lick of difference.
> Was out Saturday, extremely busy and crowded.
> 
> I was asked by friends in the community. Interesting that their reasons differ from the media vomit.



I wonder why the media even bother writing this rubbish, i mean really are we meant to feel sympathy or what. What the hell was the girl thinking being there on crutches, then obstructing police, apart from trying to get herself hurt. Just my opinion.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/wom...ged-after-sydney-protest-20200607-p55082.html


----------



## SirRumpole (7 June 2020)

moXJO said:


> You seen the shops?
> Won't make a lick of difference.
> Was out Saturday, extremely busy and crowded.
> 
> I was asked by friends in the community. Interesting that their reasons differ from the media vomit.




You mean there is going to be a second wave anyway ? That's just great, another 6 months of lockdown and it will be down to a few idiots that just have to protest against something.


----------



## macca (7 June 2020)

orr said:


> Any one here have an understanding of Spike Lee's *1989* 'Do The Right Thing' ???
> Spoiler alert ...a chock hold death of a black man climax's  the film. Who would of thought?
> 
> Quite a few of above seem not to have been paying much  attention; for the bulk of their lives, to what's important.
> ...




Hi Orr,

I know these people are not the sharpest tools in the shed but why are they protesting about black deaths in custody ? The figures show that they are actually looked after better than everyone else.

If they want to protest about black people getting arrested more than others then do That, if they want to protest about the fact that black people commit more crimes then do That.

Don't protest about something that is not happening, it destroys their credibility


----------



## moXJO (7 June 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> You mean there is going to be a second wave anyway ? That's just great, another 6 months of lockdown and it will be down to a few idiots that just have to protest against something.



It's coming back regardless. Everyone has stopped giving a sht. You really want to look at it , the left just sacrificed a bunch of darkies to the risk of coronavirus.

As for the protest, went and paid respects to a few elders and community members. I always feel these things are a waste of time. Not much of a "rah rah" drone myself.
A lot of guys my age and above are of the same opinion. Whats this really going to achieve. Idealism of youth I suppose.

Decent turn out, peaceful. The ratbag element was there though. No trouble as far as I know. Looked majority white and aboriginal. Perhaps a lot of whites with aboriginal background, hard to tell. Few Asians, some african descent , really mixed. Handful of radicals. Respectful crowd overall. 

I'm not sure if it's everyone getting locked down due to the virus. A changing of the boomer to millennial guard, but there is a weird tension/fear there. Not sure if it's people not knowing their purpose in life anymore. But there was a feeling that there is no going back to how things were. Not talking about just a black thing but a generational shift of thinking. An undercurrent  of doubt perhaps.

Given the past year, a lot of community anxiety about the future has built up. Definitely can feel it.


----------



## dutchie (8 June 2020)

Police Keep Antifa Away From Statues By Taping Job Applications Onto Them
	

		
			
		

		
	







“It’s working extremely well so far. These Antifa thugs won’t go anywhere near an opportunity for gainful employment,” Los Angeles Police Chief Charlie Beck told reporters. “We urge other American cities: if you want to protect your statues of Columbus, just head to the nearest McDonald’s or Walmart and ask for a stack of job applications. Get some tape and stick them all over the statue, and you can pretty much just go about your day at that point.”

“Job applications are Antifa’s kryptonite,” he added.

At publishing time, Beck confirmed that “Help Wanted” signs, American flags, gendered bathroom signs, and notes from their mothers informing them that it’s time to grow up and get their own place should have a similar paralyzing effect on the ruthless Antifa mobs.


----------



## qldfrog (8 June 2020)

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-08/teenager-charged-over-fatal-townsville-car-crash/12331518
Black lives matter more except in the above where who would dare to publish ethnic origin?
As long as we do not fairly put blame on individuals regardless of skin colours, this is just a long descent in the abyss.
We had a similar example of kids killed in Redcliffe this year.
And is probably similar in WA
These kids are dead because of the white male patriarchal society? Or the lack of it which prevents police to do its job on juvenile delinquency based on social origin/race.
The result is these kids are dead.so now what? Another bridge the gap in life expectancy or do we start trying yo sort the issues by taking the race out of the equation.
No one deserves to die that young as a result of the political play of a few dumbwits who you will see protesting BLM .
Lastly, i have it is true no clues on the origin of these kids but have lived long enough here to read the untold.Australia will not face its problem by babysitting the aboriginal community and it is neither helping nor working
.just my opinion


----------



## rederob (8 June 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I wonder why the media even bother writing this rubbish, i mean really are we meant to feel sympathy or what. What the hell was the girl thinking being there on crutches, then obstructing police, apart from trying to get herself hurt. Just my opinion.
> https://www.smh.com.au/national/wom...ged-after-sydney-protest-20200607-p55082.html



Where is any evidence that the police acted to protect the protesters at Central Station?  
What were they doing at Central Station?
The abundant video evidence from protesters shows they were "kettled" by police before being maced.

The police acted against one person who was "aggressive."  
The girl on crutches participated in a peaceful protest and was trying to catch her train home.  Police had blocked access to a number of platforms.  She intervened to try and calm the situation when a police sergeant leaned over other officers and let loose with mace:









When there is abundant information available, offering opinions that do not reflect the facts is not a good idea.


----------



## sptrawler (8 June 2020)

rederob said:


> Where is any evidence that the police acted to protect the protesters at Central Station?
> What were they doing at Central Station?
> The abundant video evidence from protesters shows they were "kettled" by police before being maced.
> 
> ...



The police were doing the job they were asked to do, I'm sure they didn't require her intervention, as I said what was she thinking.
But as is always the case people can always find an excuse.


----------



## sptrawler (8 June 2020)

This is a good read, be carefull, if you are going to say what you really think.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06...n-polley-pulls-all-lives-matter-post/12331534


----------



## rederob (8 June 2020)

sptrawler said:


> The police were doing the job they were asked to do, I'm sure they didn't require her intervention, as I said what was she thinking.
> But as is always the case people can always find an excuse.



You mean stop people catching trains?
There is no evidence that the protesters at the station were doing anything they had not done all day - peacefully convey their message.  And you want to condone the police using pepper spray on a person trying to calm a situation made worse by their very presence - pathetic!


----------



## sptrawler (8 June 2020)

rederob said:


> You mean stop people catching trains?
> There is no evidence that the protesters at the station were doing anything they had not done all day - peacefully convey their message.  And you want to condone the police using pepper spray on a person trying to calm a situation made worse by their very presence - pathetic!



You've had your say, I've had my say, I am definitely not going to get into one of your senseless debates that go nowhere.


----------



## rederob (8 June 2020)

sptrawler said:


> You've had your say, I've had my say, I am definitely not going to get into one of your senseless debates that go nowhere.



You mean that you have no evidence for what you say, so cannot defend your comments.
Your earlier remarks seemed to want to "blame" a person who was pepper sprayed for no apparent reason, other than being there.  Worse, in your eyes she should not have even been there because she was on crutches. 
If you venture baseless opinions, expect them to be called out.


----------



## wayneL (8 June 2020)

Ho hum.

I don't know whether the police made a mistake there or not, didn't see the vid and I'm not going to watch it. Not my concern.

What I find interesting is that the radical leftists among us have this narrative:

The protests were largely peaceful but let's ignore the violence of those who are defacing vandalising and injuring innocent people and property.

A very few cops do the wrong thing so let's taint the entire force with the actions of this small minority, even though the vast majority act entirely lawfully and giving these anarchist scumbags a hell of a lot of rein.

a little bit of critical thinking here in this regard, really does expose a very toxic agenda.

<Edit to add> Damn I hate autocorrect!


----------



## wayneL (8 June 2020)

And FWIW:

There probably was such a thing as white privilege once upon a time, at least in majority white, or white controlled societies. But was not generally known is that brown skins also took white slaves. There was no white privilege in their societies, quite the opposite.

But these protests have shown that there is actually the reverse, a black/brown privilege.

White fella would never be able to get away with what these criminals are doing, and most certainly the narrative would be entirely different.

There is no longer white privilege, it's a myth, it's the opposite.


----------



## sptrawler (8 June 2020)

rederob said:


> You mean that you have no evidence for what you say, so cannot defend your comments.
> Your earlier remarks seemed to want to "blame" a person who was pepper sprayed for no apparent reason, other than being there.  Worse, in your eyes she should not have even been there because she was on crutches.
> If you venture baseless opinions, expect them to be called out.



As with your previous nonsense arguments, if the police did something wrong, the girl can seek compensation, I tend to er on the side of the police as they do a thankless job in difficult situations. The jails are full of innocent people, who were just in the wrong place at the wrong time and did nothing wrong.
You have this unwavering belief in your own opinion, that is never shaken, even though it is proven wrong on most occassions.
Folau, you said argued that R.A had every right to sack him and ban him from ever playing rugby, well you were wrong on that as history proves. He received an out of court settlement and board members were jettisoned.
The corona virus, you argued black and blue that an investigation wasn't required and wouldn't be initiated, well that's two from two.
You are going in ever decreasing circles with Ducati, over the interpretation of the law and still relying on your opinion as the basis for all things correct.
Some people may enjoy the nonsense you play, I personally have grown tired of it, so don't don't wish to partake in it.
So like I said, I said my bit, you've said your bit, as per usual we disagree so we can agree to that.
It seems a much better outcome, than name calling and disparaging remarks, that just lowers the tone of the forum.


----------



## rederob (8 June 2020)

sptrawler said:


> The jails are full of innocent people, who were just in the wrong place at the wrong time and did nothing wrong.



Another claim without evidence.


sptrawler said:


> You have this unwavering belief in your own opinion, that is never shaken, even though it is proven wrong on most occassions.



I seldom offer my "opinions" and let the evidence speak for itself.  That's opposite to what you do.


sptrawler said:


> Folau, you said argued that R.A had every right to sack him and ban him from ever playing rugby,



Not  quite as I said I would not have sacked him, but his breach of contract made it lawful.  And I definitely never said he should be banned.


sptrawler said:


> The corona virus, you argued black and blue that an investigation wasn't required and wouldn't be initiated



Wrong again.  I said it is a matter for science to settle, and that is exactly what was agreed by the unanimous resolution.


sptrawler said:


> You are going in ever decreasing circles with Ducati, over the interpretation of the law and still relying on your opinion as the basis for all things correct.



Wrong yet again.  The police department Professional Standards Unit determined that not only were the officer's actions *not reasonable*, they were *not *based on law.  I never offered any opinion on the matter.

If you are going to run a tab on me, try to get the facts straight.


----------



## dutchie (8 June 2020)

Admittedly 2013 statistics but 2020 would not be much different.


----------



## rederob (8 June 2020)

dutchie said:


> Admittedly 2013 statistics but 2020 would not be much different.



The issue relates to blacks killed by police.




On a level playing field, if you are unarmed, you should not expect to be killed by the police and, at worst, no more often than whites would be.  If we look at shooting deaths of unarmed people, about the same number of whites and blacks are killed, which means there is a significant disparity as blacks are around 13% percent of the population.


----------



## dutchie (8 June 2020)




----------



## Kerway (8 June 2020)

The death of Floyd is obviously an offence by the policemen concerned, but why are so many people protesting this death when the vast majority of blacks are killed by other black people. Blacks who represent just 13% of the US population are FOUR times more likely to commit murder than whites.

The protesters should be protesting against the every day violence inherent in the black community, not the extremely rare killing of a black person by the police or even a white person.

Of course they are more likely to be accidentally killed by police. They far are more likely to be involved in violent crime.


----------



## dutchie (8 June 2020)

Kerway said:


> The death of Floyd is obviously an offence by the policemen concerned, but why are so many people protesting this death when the vast majority of blacks are killed by other black people. Blacks who represent just 13% of the US population are FOUR times more likely to commit murder than whites.
> 
> The protesters should be protesting against the every day violence inherent in the black community, not the extremely rare killing of a black person by the police or even a white person.




and at least the number of cops killed by blacks.


----------



## orr (8 June 2020)

Any one here have an understanding of Spike Lee's *1989* 'Do The Right Thing' ???
Spoiler alert ...a chock hold death of a black man climax's  the film. Who would of thought?

Quite a few of above seem not to have been paying much  attention; for the bulk of their lives, to what's important.

and while we're here,  'hat's off ' to the young Rosie Perez(opening credits) great work..you got to 'Fight the Power'
She just so happens to turn up in the Netflix psychedelic doco 'Have a good trip'... some hope there.

Oh and macca 27 % plus of the prison population; and and they make what percentage of the Australian population? ... I'll make it a easy for you..3% son. Someone clever would have realised they were stepping '_big sloppy one_' there, before they hit the 'post reply' .
Maybe you need to think a little on those percetages. not that your thoughts appear to be worth that much.


macca said:


> Hi Orr,
> 
> I know these people are not the sharpest tools in the shed but why are they protesting about black deaths in custody ? The figures show that they are actually looked after better than everyone else.
> 
> ...






White privilege macca/... I knew my great grand mother(Maternal line) for the first ten years of my life, she was born in the 1880's. Her mother, a Mrs Bostock , my great great grand mother administered salts to the Prince of Wales after he was shot by a Fenian at Balmoral... I personally have got a long handle on 'white privilege' the very privileged end....not lucky enough to attend 'Kings' though.

So... I've talked to people who have lived a period of Australian history, who whilst alive their  government sent weapons for the destruction of indigenous peoples. See the actions of the governor of S.A 1890's, Alexander Downers Grand Father. White privilege writ large.
Aboriginal australians have an oral history that goes back thousands of years. They know their treatment of the very recent past.

Had have a Royal Commission 30 years ago not addressed Deaths in custody but, instead the systemic ingrained racism of Australian history and it's consequences,  your above question as to 'credibility' would have no meaning. But the Royal commission 'deaths in custody'  it did not. Too hard back then. Way to Hard. Looking back is way to hard. Knowing history is even harder it appears. Howard loved to demean and marginalise, holding tight to his bosom Blainies 'Black Arm Band'... a lot of votes in the  '_white trash'._
Deaths in custody RC has given a firm foot hold on a slippery slope. MABO another. Remember too the detestable Howards commitment to 'Buck loads of extinguishment'.

Aboriginal Australians are over represented ten fold in prisons. That is known as an order of magnitude.
To not see that as an issue is a willfull, septic, cancerous  ignorance.
It suits the prejudice of to many to know little to nothing. And remember even less. You see that in that in  comments of some in this thread.

Do you know the work of Jack Davis? serious question ...


----------



## wayneL (8 June 2020)

orr said:


> 1890's, .



I guess you could say I am ethnically English. 

My people were invaded and subjugated by Romans, Angles, Jutes, Saxons, Normans, and Vikings... Plus probably a few others I can't think of right now. 

Want to talk atrocities? How much bandwidth do you have bro?


----------



## orr (8 June 2020)

wayneL said:


> I guess you could say I am ethnically English.
> 
> My people were invaded and subjugated by Romans, Angles, Jutes, Saxons, Normans, and Vikings... Plus probably a few others I can't think of right now.
> 
> Want to talk atrocities? How much bandwidth do you have bro?



Know the work of Jack Davis?  seroius question.


----------



## wayneL (8 June 2020)

orr said:


> Know the work of Jack Davis?  seroius question.



Unfortunately not (I will investigate), but I grew up with Nyoongahs and counted many as good friends when I was a young man.

There were people on both sides who could not get past their racism, but for most of us, we evaluated each other as humans and got on very well, even as young hoodlums.


----------



## moXJO (8 June 2020)

Found this picture quite powerful.
For me it sums up the current position you whites have found yourself in 2020.


----------



## moXJO (8 June 2020)

Minority police were found to kill just as many blacks if not more in a study. 

One of the problems with African American society is their reverence of thug culture. Don't worship pimps and dealers.


----------



## basilio (8 June 2020)

*Historical perspective on Black White relations in US.*
Muhammad Ali was the US heavy weight boxing champion  in the 60's and 70's and very articulate on race issues.

ASF posters in their late sixties and seventies will remember him from their youth. This  interview is around 50 years ago.  Interesting to see what was going down then.


----------



## basilio (8 June 2020)

Back in the early part of the 20th Century the  white US  community faced an unimaginable calamity.
A  proud, powerful, highly skilled black boxer, Jack Johnson,  was thrashing everyone in his path and finally became the heavyweight boxing champion of the US.

The challenge to White Supremacy had its backlash at a time when the Ku Klux Klan was in full revival and blacks were meant to stay well and truly under the foot of their natural masters.

*To put this perspective if you were a young guy in 1972 watching Muhammad Ali there is every chance your grandfather  (60 years older) would have been aware of Jack Johnson*. In fact Jack won his world title fighting Tommy Burns in Sydney in 1908.  His success didn't go down well in Oz either because we were  pretty much wedded to white supremacy as well.

Powerful story. Give it 10 minutes to get the picture


----------



## moXJO (8 June 2020)

basilio said:


> *Historical perspective on Black White relations in US.*
> Muhammad Ali was the US heavy weight boxing champion  in the 60's and 70's and very articulate on race issues.
> 
> ASF posters in their late sixties and seventies will remember him from their youth. This  interview is around 50 years ago.  Interesting to see what was going down then.




He trash talked joe Frasier with some of the worst things you can say to a black man. There's a reason Joe almost killed him in the ring. He never forgave him after what he said.


----------



## againsthegrain (9 June 2020)

https://www.tr.news/blm-melbourne/

The video shows how dumbed down the public in Australia are and they have no idea what they are protesting,  the whole blm protests in Au are a joke


----------



## moXJO (9 June 2020)

againsthegrain said:


> https://www.tr.news/blm-melbourne/
> 
> The video shows how dumbed down the public in Australia are and they have no idea what they are protesting,  the whole blm protests in Au are a joke




Rage at everything. So long as twitter tells you to.


----------



## wayneL (9 June 2020)

moXJO said:


> Rage at everything. So long as twitter tells you to.



The original meaning of the word meme, as proposed by Dawkins, was an infection of ideas, vis a vis a mind virus.

I think these people supply ample empirical evidence of this principle, indeed has been shown throughout history. Need we any better example than pre world war 2 Germany and the rise of Nazism and population-wide meme of a nation so infected?


----------



## wayneL (9 June 2020)

Need we any better example than racism itself (the genuine article that is, fair dinkum racism, not the transmogrification of ordinary behaviour, somehow construed as such)


----------



## dutchie (9 June 2020)

Read this if you really want to know about racism in the US

*Media's 'Racial Injustice' Blind Spot: Over 30 Shot In Another Deadly Chicago Weekend

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/medias-racial-injustice-blind-spot-over-30-shot-another-deadly-chicago-weekend*


----------



## IFocus (9 June 2020)

Excellent gents so there is no problem all good carry on chaps just ignore those darkies making noise for no reason............


----------



## Smurf1976 (10 June 2020)

IFocus said:


> Excellent gents so there is no problem




There is a truly massive problem here.

Trouble is, it seems that very few really want to fix it and the level of debate has been reduced to the point that even the cheesiest pop song or fictional movie is at least somewhat more factual.

I see a lot of chanting slogans and jumping on the bandwagon but I see very little in terms of pragmatic approaches to resolving the problem and that goes for all sides.

So long as there's an underlying issue of "black" versus "white" and they are seen as different rather than equal then there will be conflict since that's how large groups of humans collectively work.

Same with gender. So long as someone's arguing that there's a practical difference beyond that which is biological fact then ultimately it leads to conflict.

Trouble is, so long as the conflict is serving someone's agenda they'll be happy to throw as much fuel on the fire for both sides as is required to keep it going.

Solution?

Equality as in actual bona fide equality of opportunity for everyone. In one fell swoop that gets rid of a great many problems.

Plus there's a need to accept what cannot be changed and move on. Don't re-write history, don't try and cover it up but most definitely do accept that it is what it is, it cannot be undone, and the best thing for everyone going forward is to move on.


----------



## wayneL (10 June 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> ...the conflict is serving someone's agenda they'll be happy to throw as much fuel on the fire...




And that, I'm afraid, is the crux of the matter.

There is no actual interest in finding a solution.


----------



## dutchie (10 June 2020)

wayneL said:


> And that, I'm afraid, is the crux of the matter.
> 
> There is no actual interest in finding a solution.



Got it in one.


----------



## dutchie (10 June 2020)

This is why there are riots in the US, UK, Sweden et al


----------



## Kerway (10 June 2020)

IFocus said:


> Excellent gents so there is no problem all good carry on chaps just ignore those darkies making noise for no reason............




There is a reason. Blacks struggle to compete with whites and often incorrectly blame racism for this fact, when they should rather be looking at how THEY can do things better.


----------



## Kerway (10 June 2020)

I value the opinions of Candace Owens, an African American who feels that her fellow black Americans should stop playing the victim and do more to improve their communities.

A couple of recent quotes :

Regarding BLM : "it has nothing to do with black lives. When 18 black people are murdered in 24 hours in Chicago #GeorgeFloyd riots, plus 10 people shot in Brooklyn in one hour— the movement is about black anarchy."

"Just how depleted of self-respect must one be to agree to get on their knees because someone of another race demands it?"


----------



## moXJO (10 June 2020)

This was simply a cover for agitators to jump on board. Media has been outright lying.

 "Dismantle the police" thats a commie wet dream that now seems within grasp. When Detroit went broke and the police force could no longer patrol, it was a crimefest. People got the he'll out of dodge. I can't believe it's even being considered.

The fact it has devolved into this lunacy makes me shake my head. 

Instead of weeding out or retraining officers, these idiots went over the top.
Riots, looting and it's significant damage as well.
Seriously, whitey kneeling in african garb.... it's like I'm witnessing some cheesy sitcom.


----------



## dutchie (10 June 2020)

dutchie said:


> This is why there are riots in the US, UK, Sweden et al
> 
> View attachment 104558



Obviously BLM should be aimed at the last column (i.e. at blacks).

BL do matter but tell it to their fellow blacks.

But they won't.


----------



## dutchie (10 June 2020)

BLM - facts don't matter

Blacks make up 23 percent of New York City’s population, but they commit 75 percent of all shootings, 70 percent of all robberies, and 66 percent of all violent crime, according to victims and witnesses. Add Hispanic shootings and you account for 98 percent of all illegal gunfire in the city. Whites are 33 percent of the city’s population, but they commit fewer than two percent of all shootings, four percent of all robberies, and five percent of all violent crime. These disparities mean that virtually every time the police in New York are called out on a gun run—meaning that someone has just been shot—they are being summoned to minority neighborhoods looking for minority suspects.

Officers hope against hope that they will receive descriptions of white shooting suspects, but it almost never happens. This incidence of crime means that innocent black men have a much higher chance than innocent white men of being stopped by the police because they match the description of a suspect. This is not something the police choose. It is a reality forced on them by the facts of crime.


----------



## moXJO (10 June 2020)

Great advertising for democrat held areas.

Crazy stuff.
If it reaches suburbs it will end up a bloodbath.


----------



## Kerway (10 June 2020)

moXJO said:


> If it reaches suburbs it will end up a bloodbath.




If the protesters keep on acting like thugs, whites with guns will certainly protect their homes and families. Good on them if they do.


----------



## wayneL (10 June 2020)

Kerway said:


> If the protesters keep on acting like thugs, whites with guns will certainly protect their homes and families. Good on them if they do.



I think we have seen in many instances that this is not strictly a white versus black phenomenon. eg the black ex copper who got shot in the back of the head defending his store.

There is a deeper underlying issue behind all this. Floyd was just the catalyst.


----------



## Kerway (10 June 2020)

wayneL said:


> I think we have seen in many instances that this is not strictly a white versus black phenomenon




Try telling that to Black Lives Matter.


----------



## wayneL (10 June 2020)

Kerway said:


> Try telling that to Black Lives Matter.



Well, try telling BLM that all lives matter.

The response will tell you all you need to know.


----------



## Kerway (10 June 2020)

wayneL said:


> The response will tell you all you need to know.




OK. So what do you think the underlying causes are?

It seems to me that some of the protestors are anti-capitalist. Some may be just thugs who want to loot. But all these groups are merely using BLM protests to further their aims. 

Floyd was a victim of excessive force used by the policemen concerned. They need to be punished. But to label his death as a race crime as BLM and many others are doing appears to me to be political opportunism, as nobody knows what was in the head of the main police culprit at the time.


----------



## wayneL (10 June 2020)

Kerway said:


> OK. So what do you think the underlying causes are?
> 
> It seems to me that some of the protestors are anti-capitalist. Some may be just thugs who want to loot. But all these groups are merely using BLM protests to further their aims.
> 
> Floyd was a victim of excessive force used by the policemen concerned. They need to be punished. But to label his death as a race crime as BLM and many others are doing appears to me to be political opportunism, as nobody knows what was in the head of the main police culprit at the time.



Yep agree, usual suspects, antifa, and various other groups. All the malcontents, whether legit or not.

It's just been a violent expression of the culture wars which has been fomented by those with a political axe to grind and those so programmed and deluded.

The cultural suicide of the West.


----------



## Smurf1976 (10 June 2020)

Kerway said:


> So what do you think the underlying causes are?




The West has a population many of whom are increasingly dissatisfied with their circumstances and who are unable to think independently as to what the cause is.

Digging deeper that comes down to the economic situation, there's a lot of people stuck in service industry jobs which by their very nature have a low economic value and low pay rates, and the education system which has failed to teach the population to engage in critical thinking.

A sense of hopelessness combined with a lack of independent thinking results in people who are very easily manipulated and engaged in support of whatever agenda someone else wishes to push.

With that in place, all it needs is a spark and it goes BOOM!

Behind all that, war is good for business. Quoting a line from an old song here but it sums it up well "It feeds the rich while it buries the poor". Nailed it.


----------



## dutchie (11 June 2020)




----------



## Smurf1976 (11 June 2020)

The problem with a lot of this is that it has now turned to outright bullying by those pulling the strings.

Express genuine sentiment that's positive but do it in a way they don't approve of and you'll be torn to shreds and labelled as racist. On the other hand, display actual racism and no problem so long as it's in the approved format.

Then there's things like this which highlights another issue: https://www.news.com.au/entertainme...e/news-story/b7d3332a8f1071cd501c10debf91dc80

The whole debate reminds me of being at high school many years ago. You "like" this music and you wear these clothes if that's the fashion and don't anyone dare do anything different or suggest that they like something else. Yep, that was the culture back then (probably still is?) and it's not something that belongs in the adult world indeed it shouldn't happen in schools either.

Whoever's pulling the strings is now at the point of blatantly bullying. My guess is we'll see that stop at a time very close to when the stock market peaks.


----------



## wayneL (12 June 2020)

Maybe not quite the right thread, but...


----------



## moXJO (13 June 2020)

We have the usual provocateurs trying to kick start violence amongst protesters.
Noticed it coming from the top by leftist twats.
Blacks are not your pawns. Don't hijack their issues to further your own.







Don't try and whip up any further division you flog. You ain't the one that wears the cost.


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (13 June 2020)

moXJO said:


> We have the usual provocateurs trying to kick start violence amongst protesters.
> Noticed it coming from the top by leftist twats.
> Blacks are not your pawns. Don't hijack their issues to further your own.
> 
> ...





I was shocked to hear our Prime Minister being forced to apologise for stating a fact that slavery never existed in Australia. 

A slave is someone who is legal property of another. The fact is that indigenous people were never legal property of others.

The blackbirding argument is an attempt to redefine what slavery is. Sure it was worker exploitation and wage theft, but not slavery.


----------



## basilio (13 June 2020)

Chronos-Plutus said:


> I was shocked to hear our Prime Minister being forced to apologise for stating a fact that slavery never existed in Australia.
> 
> A slave is someone who is legal property of another. The fact is that indigenous people were never legal property of others.
> 
> The blackbirding argument is an attempt to redefine what slavery is. Sure it was worker exploitation and wage theft, but not slavery.




*  Was there slavery in Australia? Yes. It shouldn’t even be up for debate *
....What is slavery?

Australia was not a “slave state” like the American South. However, slavery is a broader concept. As Article 1 of the United Nations Slavery Convention says:
*Slavery is the status or condition of a person over whom any or all of the powers attaching to the right of ownership are exercised.*
These powers might include non-payment of wages, physical or sexual abuse, controls over freedom of movement, or selling a person like a piece of property. In the words of slavery historian Orlando Patterson, slavery is a form of “social death”.
https://theconversation.com/was-the...-yes-it-shouldnt-even-be-up-for-debate-140544


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (13 June 2020)

basilio said:


> *  Was there slavery in Australia? Yes. It shouldn’t even be up for debate *
> ....What is slavery?
> 
> Australia was not a “slave state” like the American South. However, slavery is a broader concept. As Article 1 of the United Nations Slavery Convention says:
> ...



So we are redefining the term slave! Case in point!

Slave: "a person who is legally owned by someone else and has to work for that person" (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/slave?q=Slave)


----------



## sptrawler (13 June 2020)

From an Australian perspective, with regard the mass protests, it does indicate the increase in welfare payments has worked.
Now they arent worried about money, they obviously need something else to do.


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (13 June 2020)

basilio said:


> *  Was there slavery in Australia? Yes. It shouldn’t even be up for debate *
> ....What is slavery?
> 
> Australia was not a “slave state” like the American South. However, slavery is a broader concept. As Article 1 of the United Nations Slavery Convention says:
> ...



LOL; by that measure and redefinition, we are all slaves in one form or another.


----------



## basilio (13 June 2020)

Chronos-Plutus said:


> LOL; by that measure and redefinition, we are all slaves in one form or another.



Indeed 
But perhaps  there is a difference between  10's of thousands of Pacific Islanders kidnapped and indentured to Queensland sugar farmers and our normal everyday wage slaves ?
Not to mention being the backbone of Australia' pastoral industry for bugger all.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/blackbirding


----------



## sptrawler (13 June 2020)

Every worker who pays tax is a slave, the only ones who aren't slaves, are on welfare.


----------



## SirRumpole (13 June 2020)

OK there may have been slaves in Australia once.

There aren't anymore.

Just another way for radicals to attempt to make us feel guilty about things we had nothing to do with.


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (13 June 2020)

basilio said:


> Indeed
> But perhaps  there is a difference between  10's of thousands of Pacific Islanders kidnapped and indentured to Queensland sugar farmers and our normal everyday wage slaves ?
> Not to mention being the backbone of Australia' pastoral industry for bugger all.
> 
> https://www.britannica.com/topic/blackbirding



As a Greek descendant; my Greek ancestors and ancestoral countrymen were actually enslaved under the Ottoman Empire right up to the early 20th Century.

I take offence to academics and people like yourself who just throw around the term SLAVE so loosely.


----------



## wayneL (13 June 2020)

basilio said:


> Indeed
> But perhaps  there is a difference between  10's of thousands of Pacific Islanders kidnapped and indentured to Queensland sugar farmers and our normal everyday wage slaves ?
> Not to mention being the backbone of Australia' pastoral industry for bugger all.
> 
> https://www.britannica.com/topic/blackbirding




Guess what, bas. There is still slavery in the world.

Our society left it behind.


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (13 June 2020)

basilio said:


> Indeed
> But perhaps  there is a difference between  10's of thousands of Pacific Islanders kidnapped and indentured to Queensland sugar farmers and our normal everyday wage slaves ?
> Not to mention being the backbone of Australia' pastoral industry for bugger all.
> 
> https://www.britannica.com/topic/blackbirding



I think you need to read up on the Ottoman Empire and it's legal system of slavery and then juxtapose it with your Blackbirding argument.


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (13 June 2020)

wayneL said:


> Guess what, bas. There is still slavery in the world.
> 
> Our society left it behind.



Yes and the most slavery today is black people in Africa enslaving other black people.


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (13 June 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> OK there may have been slaves in Australia once.
> 
> There aren't anymore.
> 
> Just another way for radicals to attempt to make us feel guilty about things we had nothing to do with.



No, there were never slaves in Australia. If you want an example of slavery, the Ottoman Empire is a great example.


----------



## moXJO (13 June 2020)

Aboriginals were definitely oppressed.
Up till the 80s and perhaps even to 95 they were shamed for being aboriginal. 
Their rights were certainly overlooked and abused. 
They have an absolute right to protest. I just don't support looting, violence and damage.
Or being hijacked for political points.


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (13 June 2020)

moXJO said:


> Aboriginals were definitely oppressed.
> Up till the 80s and perhaps even to 95 they were shamed for being aboriginal.
> Their rights were certainly overlooked and abused.
> They have an absolute right to protest. I just don't support looting, violence and damage.
> Or being hijacked for political points.



Oppressed and disadvantaged; I agree. Slaves they were not. The whole Blackbirding argument is nonsense as slavery was abolished in 1834 and the Blackbirding was from around the 1850s. Therefore if kidnapping to work as labourers occurred, it was an illegal act by criminals. Furthermore, these people were not deemed to be property by the government of the day.


----------



## wayneL (13 June 2020)

The whole okay sign by the copper kerfuffle is evidence how stupid and silly everything is getting; and shows the Gaurdian's role in sowing division... pullleeeezzz

The Guardian: NSW police officer appears to make white power salute near Sydney Black Lives Matter protest.
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...salute-near-sydney-black-lives-matter-protest


----------



## SirRumpole (13 June 2020)

Anyway, this thread is about the US. May I suggest we discuss Australian issues in another thread ?


----------



## SirRumpole (13 June 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> OK there may have been slaves in Australia once.
> 
> There aren't anymore.
> 
> *Just another way for radicals to attempt to make us feel guilty about things we had nothing to do with.*




BTW , I'm not referring to anyone here, I mean the aboriginal leaders who want to keep blaming us for everything, forever.


----------



## Smurf1976 (13 June 2020)

Chronos-Plutus said:


> I was shocked to hear our Prime Minister being forced to apologise for stating a fact that slavery never existed in Australia.



I don’t know enough about the history of the issue in Australia to comment but I do see a definite problem with jumping on the PM for making a presumably honest mistake or due to context.

We seem to have a lot of people looking for a reason to be angry rather than accepting that nobody’s perfect.


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (13 June 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> I don’t know enough about the history of the issue in Australia to comment but I do see a definite problem with jumping on the PM for making a presumably honest mistake or due to context.
> 
> We seem to have a lot of people looking for a reason to be angry rather than accepting that nobody’s perfect.



The PM didn't make a mistake. The government of the day never sanctioned or supported slavery; furthermore there is no evidence of people being traded as property. To be a slave you must be the legal property of another which is recognised by a governing authority. For there to be a slave trade, slaves must be traded. So there were no slaves and there was no slave trading in Australia.

As for the Blackbirding; the Queensland government actually attempted to regulate it with the Polynesian Labourers Act. 

There was perhaps kidnapping, wage theft and worker exploitation; but there were no slaves and there was no slave trading.


----------



## Smurf1976 (13 June 2020)

Chronos-Plutus said:


> The PM didn't make a mistake. The government of the day never sanctioned or supported slavery; furthermore there is no evidence of people being traded as property. To be a slave you must be the legal property of another which is recognised by a governing authority. For there to be a slave trade, slaves must be traded. So there were no slaves and there was no slave trading in Australia.



I claim no expertise on the detail but in a technical sense I think you're right.

That said, the mistake he's made in my view is commenting at all. This debate is not being conducted rationally, it's being driven by emotion, and there's a lot of people just looking for a reason to trip others up. The PM is an obvious target there so from a purely political perspective he'd be better off talking about something, anything, else.

On the overall subject though, well I'll throw the grenade with a question:

How many Australians buy products they know, or would reasonably suspect, are produced by exploiting workers of predominantly a particular race?

Semantics and definitions of slavery and so on aside, the basic concept of exploiting other humans of a race different to our own is alive and well today and just about everyone in Australia, including those protesting, is supporting it with their purchasing decisions.

The argument that we can't afford to enforce proper pay, conditions, safety and environmental standards is after all the same argument used to justify slavery in the US and elsewhere in the past. Too expensive.

That doesn't cut it in my view. Cheap electronics or clothing is a pathetic excuse to justify exploitation of others who just happen to be primarily of one particular race. Don't expect the protestors to highlight it however, that would require looking in the mirror and seeing part of the problem and acknowledging that they personally are today still profiting from the exploitation of others.


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (13 June 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> I claim no expertise on the detail but in a technical sense I think you're right.
> 
> That said, the mistake he's made in my view is commenting at all. This debate is not being conducted rationally, it's being driven by emotion, and there's a lot of people just looking for a reason to trip others up. The PM is an obvious target there so from a purely political perspective he'd be better off talking about something, anything, else.
> 
> ...




Totally agree with your entire post.

Our PM shouldn't have fallen into the trap of commenting because we are dealing with a very sensitive topic where facts don't matter and where established definitions are being redefined for political purposes.

You're spot on with the hypocritical people that buy the cheapest product on the shelf while they scream to high heaven about wage theft and worker exploitation.

No law professor can deny that a slave is the legal property of an owner, which is recognised by a governing authority.


----------



## Smurf1976 (13 June 2020)

Putting aside the detail of racism for a moment, much of what's being seen here does have very real relevance to investing (this is a stock market forum.....) and that is herd behaviour.

There are real issues with racism, to be clear I'm not denying that, but we do have a lot of herd behaviour going on with people jumping on the bandwagon of things they don't really know much about but which someone else said they should support.

Other examples where this sort of behaviour often occurs are fashion, pop music and the *stock market*.

Fashion I know nothing about so no real comment there byond saying that by its very nature, fast fashion involves people following what someone else started doing.

Pop music though, well if you were to plot the chart success of artists whose career is mostly complete, so those who were popular some years ago and who aren't in the charts these days, then you'll find plenty of 3 stage bull markets complete with blow off tops and echo bubbles. Plenty of other technical patterns too.

In all these cases be it protest movements, fashion, pop music, stock market etc we're dealing with mass psychology. There are exceptions but a lot of people wear certain clothes, listen to certain music or buy particular stocks not because they think they're great but because others have started wearing, listening to or buying them. It is thus no surprise to find very similar patterns playing out.

Understanding what's going on with this sort of mass behaviour does have application to investing once you realise that the same basic patterns are playing out everywhere from tech stocks to the popularity of yo-yo's. It's all down to the collective psychology of the masses.

That's in no way aiming to diminish the importance of the race issues, I'm just highlighting that the broad concepts of how the masses behave do apply to many things and that has application to investing.


----------



## basilio (13 June 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> I claim no expertise on the detail but in a technical sense I think you're right.
> 
> That said, the mistake he's made in my view is commenting at all. This debate is not being conducted rationally, it's being driven by emotion, and there's a lot of people just looking for a reason to trip others up. The PM is an obvious target there so from a purely political perspective he'd be better off talking about something, anything, else.
> 
> ...




That is such a big, big challenge... Trying to untangle that can of worms would lead one into a rabbit hole of  Alice in the Looking Glass proportions.

Yes. We all with miniscule exceptions purchase products from suppliers who badly exploit their workers. None of us really want to think about it too much.  Suppliers don't want to know about what their agents source. We all keep mum and buy the next cheap goodie.

Principles of fair wages, safe working conditions might seem like a "good idea" but the world of economic reality (maximise profit, screw the workers and the environment)  almost always wins the day.

And of course the biggest fight  we have on ASF is  about those _bloody "virtual (sic)  signalling " commies who are destroying our economy and culture by bashing on for fair ages/conditions/environmental safeguards. And of course slowing down the economic treadmill because we are facing a contagious epidemic...
_
Where to from here ?  But *I *won't accept that this situation just means we cannot recognise and tackle issues. It is in fact the oldest argument in the book to deflect legitimate criticism of bad practices.


----------



## sptrawler (13 June 2020)

basilio said:


> That is such a big, big challenge... Trying to untangle that can of worms would lead one into a rabbit hole of  Alice in the Looking Glass proportions.
> 
> Yes. We all with miniscule exceptions purchase products from suppliers who badly exploit their workers. None of us really want to think about it too much.  Suppliers don't want to know about what their agents source. We all keep mum and buy the next cheap goodie.
> 
> ...



I think the whole social upheaval that is happening, will bring clarity to all the issues that need addressing, I also think many of the outcomes wont be what people think.
The system cant bring about change, without an increase in endeavour and application, currently those who are demanding change are wrecking public property, which will require those who are already working the hardest having to fund the repairs.
This cant end well, someone needs to ask, what do you want? Really what do you want?


----------



## basilio (14 June 2020)

basilio said:


> That is such a big, big challenge... Trying to untangle that can of worms would lead one into a rabbit hole of  Alice in the Looking Glass proportions.
> 
> Yes. We all with miniscule exceptions purchase products from suppliers who badly exploit their workers. None of us really want to think about it too much.  Suppliers don't want to know about what their agents source. We all keep mum and buy the next cheap goodie.
> 
> ...




IMV one critical issue on why fair wages, quality products and environmental safeguards are losing badly at the moment is the intense competition amongst  capitalists to be the richest guy on the block (or the  world)

The evidence is that since the early 80's the share of  national income that has gone to the top 1% or less has risen dramatically. This determination to extract ever increasing profits from the economic system has inevitably meant keeping ages down, reducing work opportunities and cutting every corner when it comes to environmental issues.

_Since 1980, the World Inequality Report data has shown that the share of national income going to the richest 1 percent has increased rapidly in North America (defined here as the United States and Canada), China, India, and Russia and more moderately in Europe. World Inequality Lab researchers note that this period coincides with the rollback in these countries and regions of various post-World War II policies aimed at narrowing economic divides. By contrast, they point out, countries and regions that did not experience a post-war egalitarian regime, such as the Middle East, sub-Saharan Africa, and Brazil, have had relatively stable, but extremely high levels of inequality._

Check out the figures. There are some quite astounding graphs on the wealth of a few individuals vs the rest of the world








https://inequality.org/facts/global-inequality/


----------



## wayneL (14 June 2020)

basilio said:


> IMV one critical issue on why fair wages, quality products and environmental safeguards are losing badly at the moment is the intense competition amongst  capitalists to be the richest guy on the block (or the  world)
> 
> The evidence is that since the early 80's the share of  national income that has gone to the top 1% or less has risen dramatically. This determination to extract ever increasing profits from the economic system has inevitably meant keeping ages down, reducing work opportunities and cutting every corner when it comes to environmental issues.
> 
> ...




I think this is the reason behind the reason, moreso than perceived racism.

One small point of order, this system is not capitalist, nor are the beneficiaries. What we have is corporatism... Socialism for the elite.


----------



## wayneL (14 June 2020)

Racism.... Thread


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## dutchie (14 June 2020)

The BLM movement and stirring up racism is just an orchestrated step in overthrowing the West to be replaced by communism.
So far they are winning  (anarchy in US and UK)
Do not be fooled by the media and politicians that it is anything else.

Keep playing around with stock trading, make the most of it while you can, because your kids won't be able to.


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (14 June 2020)

basilio said:


> IMV one critical issue on why fair wages, quality products and environmental safeguards are losing badly at the moment is the intense competition amongst  capitalists to be the richest guy on the block (or the  world)
> 
> The evidence is that since the early 80's the share of  national income that has gone to the top 1% or less has risen dramatically. This determination to extract ever increasing profits from the economic system has inevitably meant keeping ages down, reducing work opportunities and cutting every corner when it comes to environmental issues.
> 
> ...



I would rather live in a world of capitalism, with all its imperfections, than a communist world where everyone is dead poor.


----------



## basilio (14 June 2020)

Chronos-Plutus said:


> I would rather live in a world of capitalism, with all its imperfections, than a communist world where everyone is dead poor.




How about a fairer world where people got a decent wage and  there were worthwhile jobs  ?

If you checked out  the graph I posted and the website you would see that pre 1980 economic progress had been made across the whole economy. Since then whether it was the US, USSR/Russia the countries wealth has flowed to the richest and hang the rest.


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (14 June 2020)

wayneL said:


> I think this is the reason behind the reason, moreso than perceived racism.
> 
> One small point of order, this system is not capitalist, nor are the beneficiaries. What we have is corporatism... Socialism for the elite.



I think many are just jealous of other people's success. Most of the top 1% today, in the USA, came from modest wealth. Bezos, Zuckerberg, Gates, Buffett etc. These guys made their fortunes, a great deal of luck, timing and help from others; but they came from little.


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (14 June 2020)

basilio said:


> How about a fairer world where people got a decent wage and  there were worthwhile jobs  ?
> 
> If you checked out  the graph I posted and the website you would see that pre 1980 economic progress had been made across the whole economy. Since then whether it was the US, USSR/Russia the countries wealth has flowed to the richest and hang the rest.



I believe in a meritocracy; where the most talented and hard working are rewarded in society. That is what's fair in my eyes.


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (14 June 2020)

basilio said:


> How about a fairer world where people got a decent wage and  there were worthwhile jobs  ?
> 
> If you checked out  the graph I posted and the website you would see that pre 1980 economic progress had been made across the whole economy. Since then whether it was the US, USSR/Russia the countries wealth has flowed to the richest and hang the rest.



Are you suggesting that communism is the answer for everyone getting decent jobs and better pay?
Communism has failed in Russia, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, even China until they embraced capitalism. Communism has always led to death and disaster; recorded history speaks for itself.


----------



## basilio (14 June 2020)

Chronos-Plutus said:


> I believe in a meritocracy; where the most talented and hard working are rewarded in society. That is what's fair in my eyes.




That is not what is happening Chronos. 

The concentration  and accumulation of wealth amongst a smaller and smaller group of people isn't because they are talented and hard working.

It's because they are (mostly) ruthless people who have managed to create an environment where anything they do to  accumulate  money is acceptable and promoted *but* if workers organise to get a living wage they are threatened with losing their jobs and accused of being "commies".

It's because these organisations now pull the strings of their Governments and get the multi trillion dollar tax breaks that mean the richest people in the US are on lower tax brackets than low paid employees.


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (14 June 2020)

basilio said:


> That is not what is happening Chronos.
> 
> The concentration  and accumulation of wealth amongst a smaller and smaller group of people isn't because they are talented and hard working.
> 
> ...




I think you're misguided. I would rather live in a world where the individual is free to pursue and seek what they wish; whether it be fortune, fame, glory or knowledge; or a combination there of.
There are no guarantees in life and we don't live in a perfect world.
Capitalism as it stands at the moment, could be more fair to those who are talented and hard working, no question about it; but communism is certainly not the answer, if this is what you're suggesting.


----------



## basilio (14 June 2020)

Chronos-Plutus said:


> Are you suggesting that communism is the answer for everyone getting decent jobs and better pay?
> Communism has failed in Russia, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, even China until they embraced capitalism. Communism has always led to death and disaster; recorded history speaks for itself.





Where did I suggest that ? In any way shape or form where did I say Communism was  great ?
Get a grip will ya and stop making up BS assertions.

Between 1950 and 1980 the Western Capitalist model has been capable of providing a very good quality of life for most of its people. It combines the initiative and drive of private enterprise with a solid Government contribution of good governance, national infrastructure support and a legal system which enables all members of society to flourish.

That includes Labour  organisations as well because one of the overriding realities of an unfettered capitalist system is that individual workers will always be at the mercy of stronger capitalists. When that happens wages are crushed. People go into poverty The country quickly divides into a rich/poor  community.

Of course that doesn't represent a problem for your average billionaire.


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (14 June 2020)

basilio said:


> Where did I suggest that ? In any way shape or form where did I say Communism was  great ?
> Get a grip will ya and stop making up BS assertions.
> 
> Between 1950 and 1980 the Western Capitalist model has been capable of providing a very good quality of life for most of its people. It combines the initiative and drive of private enterprise with a solid Government contribution of good governance, national infrastructure support and a legal system which enables all members of society to flourish.
> ...




No need to get emotional now. 

Why don't you try offering solutions rather than screaming about how bad capitalism is at the moment.

Solutions that aren't based on the emotive jealousy of other's success.


----------



## SirRumpole (14 June 2020)

Chronos-Plutus said:


> I think you're misguided. I would rather live in a world where the individual is free to pursue and seek what they wish; whether it be fortune, fame, glory or knowledge; or a combination there of.
> There are no guarantees in life and we don't live in a perfect world.
> Capitalism as it stands at the moment, could be more fair to those who are talented and hard working, no question about it; but communism is certainly not the answer, if this is what you're suggesting.




I don't think for one minute that basilio is suggesting communism, why do people always have to think in extremes ?

From an economic point of view, capitalists can only make money when the masses have the money to buy what they are selling. 60% of Australian consumption is domestic, so the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few is counterproductive to the good of the economy. Money has to keep going around otherwise businesses die. So yes, let as many people as possible get rich because then they spend and keep businesses in business.

PS, I'm not sure this is the right thread to be discussing economics.


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (14 June 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> I don't think for one minute that basilio is suggesting communism, why do people always have to think in extremes ?
> 
> From an economic point of view, capitalists can only make money when the masses have the money to buy what they are selling. 60% of Australian consumption is domestic, so the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few is counterproductive to the good of the economy. Money has to keep going around otherwise businesses die. So yes, let as many people as possible get rich because then they spend and keep businesses in business.
> 
> PS, I'm not sure this is the right thread to be discussing economics.



At the end of the day, if someone doesn't want to live in the current system; they are free to find a group of people, buy a plot of land and build their own little self-sustainable community. Capitalism allows this freedom and many people have done it.


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (14 June 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> I don't think for one minute that basilio is suggesting communism, why do people always have to think in extremes ?
> 
> From an economic point of view, capitalists can only make money when the masses have the money to buy what they are selling. 60% of Australian consumption is domestic, so the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few is counterproductive to the good of the economy. Money has to keep going around otherwise businesses die. So yes, let as many people as possible get rich because then they spend and keep businesses in business.
> 
> PS, I'm not sure this is the right thread to be discussing economics.



We as a collective make people rich. Shopping on Amazon makes Bezos rich; spending time on Facebook makes Zuckerberg rich; buying and using Microsoft products makes Gates rich etc etc. If people are angry that such people are so rich, then they should just not make them richer by contributing to their wealth. In capitalism, the individual is free to live and spend their wealth as they please. Personally I give them credit for their success.


----------



## wayneL (14 June 2020)

Chronos-Plutus said:


> I think many are just jealous of other people's success. Most of the top 1% today, in the USA, came from modest wealth. Bezos, Zuckerberg, Gates, Buffett etc. These guys made their fortunes, a great deal of luck, timing and help from others; but they came from little.



 Indeed. 

But they quickly become corporatists like others.


----------



## SirRumpole (14 June 2020)

Chronos-Plutus said:


> At the end of the day, if someone doesn't want to live in the current system; they are free to find a group of people, buy a plot of land and build their own little self-sustainable community. Capitalism allows this freedom and many people have done it.




They also have the freedom to form political parties , get people to vote for them , get into government and change the system.

Democracy allows this freedom and many people have done it.


----------



## SirRumpole (14 June 2020)

Chronos-Plutus said:


> We as a collective make people rich. Shopping on Amazon makes Bezos rich; spending time on Facebook makes Zuckerberg rich; buying and using Microsoft products makes Gates rich etc etc. If people are angry that such people are so rich, then they should just not make them richer by contributing to their wealth. In capitalism, the individual is free to live and spend their wealth as they please. Personally I admire these guys, and give them credit for their success.




Collective ? We are all individuals !


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## Chronos-Plutus (14 June 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Collective ? We are all individuals !



That's correct. Individuals who choose to use their products. Which collectively makes them rich. Another example is buying movie tickets because you like an actor. If no one bought a movie ticket because a certain actor was in a film, then the actor would be poor; if many individuals choose to buy a movie ticket because a certain individual is in a movie; then we collectively make the actor rich. Another example is music artists or athletes.


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (14 June 2020)

wayneL said:


> Indeed.
> 
> But they quickly become corporatists like others.



The same applies to corporations. The individual is free to choose if they want to buy the brand of coffee they desire, free to buy the airfare from the airline that they choose, free to bank with their favourite bank, free to study at which university that they wish etc etc etc.


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (14 June 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> They also have the freedom to form political parties , get people to vote for them , get into government and change the system.
> 
> Democracy allows this freedom and many people have done it.



Absolutely, we live in a capitalist society that is governed by democracy.


----------



## sptrawler (14 June 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> I don't think for one minute that basilio is suggesting communism, why do people always have to think in extremes ?
> 
> From an economic point of view, capitalists can only make money when the masses have the money to buy what they are selling. 60% of Australian consumption is domestic, so the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few is counterproductive to the good of the economy. Money has to keep going around otherwise businesses die. So yes, let as many people as possible get rich because then they spend and keep businesses in business.
> 
> PS, I'm not sure this is the right thread to be discussing economics.



That is why Australians enjoy one of the highest basic wages and one of the best welfare states in the World, the only problem is, those who enjoy it dont realise it.


----------



## macca (14 June 2020)

Chronos-Plutus said:


> I would rather live in a world of capitalism, with all its imperfections, than a communist world where everyone is dead poor.




Not everyone is dead poor, the ruling party are very comfortable thank you


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## Chronos-Plutus (14 June 2020)

macca said:


> Not everyone is dead poor, the ruling party are very comfortable thank you



That's true. Castro, Stalin, Kim, Mao and Maduro lived/live in luxury while their people starved/starve to death.


----------



## Smurf1976 (14 June 2020)

basilio said:


> If you checked out the graph I posted and the website you would see that pre 1980 economic progress had been made across the whole economy. Since then whether it was the US, USSR/Russia the countries wealth has flowed to the richest and hang the rest.




As agreed in 1975, the entire world economic order at that point was thrown on the scrapheap and replaced with a race to the bottom on price alone. A race that could only ever be won by those willing to cut more corners than anyone else whilst a few reaped the rewards.

That we don't manufacture cars in Adelaide, that we don't manufacture tools in Hobart or steel in Perth, that we haven't addressed climate change and that we've got unaffordable housing are all ultimately tied to that as is our "reliance" on exploiting cheap labour overseas and running up debt which can never be repaid.

Politically, the big barrier to progress is that all sides struggle to admit they stuffed up. Both major parties in any Western democracy were on board with it all and most of the minor parties weren't much better. It's all tied together but the problem is that neither the Left nor the Right is willing to admit it.

Looking at the investment implications of all this, well if there's one thing that everyone has hopefully learned over the past few months it's that the unthinkable can not only happen but it can happen rather quickly.

Anyone who thinks concepts such as free trade and the current taxation regime are a given, is taking a rather large gamble. We could well see 90% tax rates and tariffs on pretty much everything - indeed the US had a 91% top rate until 1963 and the top marginal tax rate didn't drop below 70% until 1981. Here in Australia businesses were constrained by the Prices Justification Tribunal, imports were mostly subject to tariffs and so on.

We could of course see a move in the opposite direction or some sort of hybrid. Anything's possible and we're living in a world where the "debate" may well be non-existent in practice. You wake up and it's in. Done.

All this stuff is temporary in nature, change occurs, and anyone who thinks the current state of affairs is permanent could well find themselves in for a very rude shock. Invest with this in mind noting that race riots do, if they escalate, have the potential to be a trigger for change which could be in any direction and at very short notice.


----------



## moXJO (15 June 2020)

moXJO said:


> We have the usual provocateurs trying to kick start violence amongst protesters.
> Noticed it coming from the top by leftist twats.
> Blacks are not your pawns. Don't hijack their issues to further your own.
> 
> ...




Can't incite a riot, so staffer has to do it?

*One of the two women charged with defacing a Captain Cook statue in Sydney's Hyde Park has been identified as a part-time worker within Greens MP David Shoebridge's office.*


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## Chronos-Plutus (15 June 2020)

moXJO said:


> Can't incite a riot, so staffer has to do it?
> 
> *One of the two women charged with defacing a Captain Cook statue in Sydney's Hyde Park has been identified as a part-time worker within Greens MP David Shoebridge's office.*




These public servants should be banned from working for the Federal, State or Local government; or any political party. Damaging Australian heritage should be punished with hefty fines and a ban from all public service in any capacity.


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## wayneL (15 June 2020)

Here's and interesting on topic perspective. Could've easily gone in the Lunatic Left thread too, but here we are



And have a look what it used to be like


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## wayneL (15 June 2020)

Sow to the wind, reap a whirlwind.

https://www.newsweek.com/all-member...e-union-president-over-chief-kneeling-1510637



The entire special weapons and tactics (SWAT) Team of the Hallandale Beach Police Department resigned on Friday in response to Police Chief Sonia Quinones kneeling alongside protesters demonstrating against anti-black police brutality.


On Friday, City Manager Greg Chavarria received a memorandum dated June 9 from members of SWAT team. In the memo, the officers submitted their resignation. One of the officers was the newly elected president of the International Union of Police Associations (IUPA) Police Union......


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## wayneL (15 June 2020)

Awesome podcast, sober, balanced.... If you have a spare hour I really recommend this one


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (15 June 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> As agreed in 1975, the entire world economic order at that point was thrown on the scrapheap and replaced with a race to the bottom on price alone. A race that could only ever be won by those willing to cut more corners than anyone else whilst a few reaped the rewards.
> 
> That we don't manufacture cars in Adelaide, that we don't manufacture tools in Hobart or steel in Perth, that we haven't addressed climate change and that we've got unaffordable housing are all ultimately tied to that as is our "reliance" on exploiting cheap labour overseas and running up debt which can never be repaid.
> 
> ...




The rise of globalisation, in tandem with government policy to just sit back and rely on selling our iron ore and coal abroad, has in effect decimated Australia's industrial capacity. We took the easy path in just letting our manufacturing industries collapse while we discovered the honey pots of resources across our vast geographical home.

Resource rich nations tend to become lazy, which often leads to great economic disaster somewhere done the track. This is known as the 'Dutch disease': "Dutch disease is a concept that describes an economic phenomenon where the rapid development of one sector of the economy (particularly natural resources) precipitates a decline in other sectors." (https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/knowledge/economics/dutch-disease/)

Australia now needs to correct this economic phenomenon through the establishment and support of new industries in multiple sectors like:
- energy development in nuclear, hydrogen, solar, biogas, biofuel
- agriculture technology business
- large scale freshwater transfer/network infrastructure

Once we have mastered these sectors we can then export our expertise abroad, just like we do with mining today.


----------



## SirRumpole (15 June 2020)

Chronos-Plutus said:


> The rise of globalisation, in tandem with government policy to just sit back and rely on selling our iron ore and coal abroad, has in effect decimated Australia's industrial capacity. We took the easy path in just letting our manufacturing industries collapse while we discovered the honey pots of resources across our vast geographical home.
> 
> Resource rich nations tend to become lazy, which often leads to great economic disaster somewhere done the track. This is known as the 'Dutch disease': "Dutch disease is a concept that describes an economic phenomenon where the rapid development of one sector of the economy (particularly natural resources) precipitates a decline in other sectors." (https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/knowledge/economics/dutch-disease/)
> 
> ...




The basis of most technology today are microprocessors and related LSI microchips.

I see no reason why we can't or should not develope the capacity to design and manufacture these chips in Australia. We are virtually totally dependent on other countries for the basics of modern technology.


----------



## dutchie (15 June 2020)

Chronos-Plutus said:


> This is known as the 'Dutch disease': "Dutch disease is a concept that describes an economic phenomenon where the rapid development of one sector of the economy (particularly natural resources) precipitates a decline in other sectors."



Ahhhhh Cheese  , Edam, Gouda,.......


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (15 June 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> The basis of most technology today are microprocessors and related LSI microchips.
> 
> I see no reason why we can't or should not develope the capacity to design and manufacture these chips in Australia. We are virtually totally dependent on other countries for the basics of modern technology.




Sure. I think we need to focus on perhaps 5 to 10 major industries and then we master it. I tend to prefer energy, water and agricultural based industries. I like:

- Waste-to-energy like incineration of municipal and commercial waste to produce electricity, and biogas production from green waste and sewage.
- Water network infrastructure like capturing the rainfall from FNQ and transferring the water to our food bowls in QLD, NSW and VIC. Even using the freshwater to recharge the GAB if possible.
- Large scale solar in NT and WA.
- Tidal Barrage in WA to produce hydrogen.
- Agricultural technology and business like better machinery to harvest and greenhouses.


----------



## wayneL (15 June 2020)

dutchie said:


> Ahhhhh Cheese  , Edam, Gouda,.......



So long as it's the fair dinkum stuff 

I would sell my soul for ridgy didge Dutch cheese, actually any number of European cheeses


----------



## wayneL (15 June 2020)




----------



## sptrawler (15 June 2020)

Chronos-Plutus said:


> These public servants should be banned from working for the Federal, State or Local government; or any political party. Damaging Australian heritage should be punished with hefty fines and a ban from all public service in any capacity.



Yes how someone who works for a political party, can damage taxpayers property that will have to repaired with taxpayers money, should hang their head in shame IMO.


----------



## sptrawler (15 June 2020)

wayneL said:


> Sow to the wind, reap a whirlwind.
> 
> https://www.newsweek.com/all-member...e-union-president-over-chief-kneeling-1510637
> 
> ...



I did mention earlier in the thread, this will probably end up with mass resignations and women being the only police officers.

On a lighter note, I heard on the weekend a huge department store was looted by protesters, the only thing left in the store was work boots.


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (15 June 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Yes how someone who works for a political party, can damage taxpayers property that will have to repaired with taxpayers money, should hang their head in shame IMO.



Desecrating statues is what the Taliban do. If the Greens sanction this behaviour, perhaps their party needs to be stripped of their political status and designated as a terrorist organisation.


----------



## Smurf1976 (15 June 2020)

Chronos-Plutus said:


> Sure. I think we need to focus on perhaps 5 to 10 major industries and then we master it




As I see it, regardless of what specific activity turns out to be the best way to fix it, the first step is that there needs to be broad acknowledgement of the problem.

Our present model is based on digging vast holes in the ground, selling the minerals to others, and exploiting overseas workers and the natural environment so that we live comfortably.

That has numerous consequences from pollution to racial tension to housing affordability to underemployment and it's no coincidence that the problems many lament date back to shortly after we started going down this track economically.

Or in simpler terms - it's all an interconnected web of cause and effect. It creates a society far more divided than the previous version both economically and in terms of respect for others and perceptions of fairness and so on.

In that context I think it's worth bearing in mind for those who invest from a long term perspective that there's a lot of pressure on the current economic approach on account of these problems and it would be unwise to assume that current circumstances continue. Even if you're a long term buy and hold investor, it would be wise to be alert to such things and ready to pull the pin if appropriate. 

Don't assume that, for example, the company you own shares in and which has mines somewhere overseas won't suddenly find its mines have been nationalised or something like that. Likewise things like critical infrastructure being compulsorily acquired by government or at least having prices regulated. Etc. We're in an environment of tension where such things may well occur. Be alert.


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (15 June 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I did mention earlier in the thread, this will probably end up with mass resignations and women being the only police officers.
> 
> On a lighter note, I heard on the weekend a huge department store was looted by protesters, the only thing left in the store was work boots.




I just thought about this issue a bit more and I think the NSW Police should lay charges of terrorism against these two individuals that desecrated the statue in Hyde Park.

These acts that desecrate statues of Australian heritage are violent and intimidating, which are done so for political purposes; essentially that is terrorism by definition.


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (15 June 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> As I see it, regardless of what specific activity turns out to be the best way to fix it, the first step is that there needs to be broad acknowledgement of the problem.
> 
> Our present model is based on digging vast holes in the ground, selling the minerals to others, and exploiting overseas workers and the natural environment so that we live comfortably.
> 
> ...




I still support the mining industry; what I am trying to highlight is that our mining industry is mature now after many decades of it being our primary industry at the expense of other industries.

We still need iron ore and coking coal to produce steel, which is a foundational material for construction. We also still need lithium, zinc, lead, gold, silver and so on; as materials for other industries.

I have never really been keen on thermal coal, however I am willing to compromise to attain an energy mix that encompasses nuclear, coal, natural gas, hydro, solar, marine, wind, biogas, and biofuel energy.

As for the environment; I have no issue with mining provided that it doesn't compromise our natural resources of freshwater, prime agricultural land and the marine reserves.


----------



## basilio (15 June 2020)

Chronos-Plutus said:


> As for the environment; I have no issue with mining provided that it doesn't compromise our natural resources of freshwater, prime agricultural land and the marine reserves.




Except that it does ... Just to name a few
1) Effects of fracking on  the vast underground water reserves which support thousands of sq miles of agricultur2
2) Effects of coal mining in Queensland on the Great Barrier reef ( not  to mention  water resources in teh mining process)
3) Acceleration of global warming with fugitive methane gas releases from NW development sites.

One of the biggest agricultural mining disaster in Australia occurred with the deeply flawed development of Underground Coal Gasification by LINC energy.

Sure mining is important.  But make no mistake - the concerns raised about its impact on our other natural resources are very real and risk long term damage for very short term gains.
https://theconversation.com/expanding-gas-mining-threatens-our-climate-water-and-health-113047
https://www.queenslandcountrylife.c...-basin-coal-mines-greater-than-first-thought/
https://www.environment.gov.au/water/coal-and-coal-seam-gas/about
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04...-serious-environmental-harm-ucg-plant/9632964
https://www.smh.com.au/national/the...oleum-industry-messaging-20191106-p5383n.html


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (15 June 2020)

basilio said:


> Except that it does ... Just to name a few
> 1) Effects of fracking on  the vast underground water reserves which support thousands of sq miles of agricultur2
> 2) Effects of coal mining in Queensland on the Great Barrier reef ( not  to mention  water resources in teh mining process)
> 3) Acceleration of global warming with fugitive methane gas releases from NW development sites.
> ...




I have actually studied a semester of Environmental Management with a focus on Complex Adaptive Systems at university. So I am well aware of the somewhat fragile and intricate nature of ecosystems.

I know the importance of the Great Barrier Reef to our economy; the Queensland and Federal government do also. The Great Barrier Reef Marine Authority are well funded to manage this natural resource.

Water security, food security and energy security are national security objectives which are central to the maintenance and care of our environment. On this basis; mining shouldn't be allowed to comprise these national security objectives.

I think we are nowhere near each other on the topic of Climate Change.

As for Linc energy, they were punished and made an example of.


----------



## dutchie (16 June 2020)

Trump Says His Civil War Will Be Even Better Than Lincoln's

https://babylonbee.com/news/trump-says-his-civil-war-will-be-even-better-than-lincolns
https://t.co/m4SegRfJJS?amp=1


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## wayneL (16 June 2020)

Here's an informed black perspective


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## basilio (18 June 2020)

Here is another perspective. 
White Nationalist Groups in the US

*United States*

11th Hour Remnant Messenger was a group founded by two wealthy retired entrepreneurs who believed that whites were the true biblical Israelites.
American Renaissance, is a "race realist and white advocacy website", formerly a monthly magazine, published by the New Century Foundation.
American Freedom Party, formerly known as the American Third Position Party, is an American political party which promotes white supremacy.[12][13][14][15] It was founded in 2010, and it defines its principal mission as representing the political interests of white Americans.[16]
American Nazi Party, is an antisemitic, neo-Nazi organization based largely upon the ideals and policies of Adolf Hitler's NSDAP in Germany during the era of the Third Reich. It also supports Holocaust denial.
Aryan Brotherhood of Texas is, according to the Anti-Defamation League and the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the largest and most violent white supremacist prison gangs in the United States, responsible for murders and other violent crimes.[17][18]
Aryan Republican Army was a white nationalist terrorist organization.
Aryan Nations, is a white supremacist neo-Nazi organization founded in the 1970s by Richard Girnt Butler as an arm of the Christian Identity group known as the Church of Jesus Christ-Christian. The Federal Bureau of Investigation has called Aryan Nations a "terrorist threat",[19] and the RAND Corporation has called it the "first truly nationwide terrorist network" in the US.[20]
Asatru Folk Assembly, part of the racist ("folkish") branch of the Heathenry movement.[21]
Atomwaffen Division, a Neo-Nazi terrorist organisation.
Council of Conservative Citizens, is an American political organization that supports a large variety of conservative and paleoconservative causes in addition to white separatism.[22]
Creativity Alliance, (formerly known as the _World Church of the Creator_) is a white supremacist political organization that advocates the racialist religion, _Creativity_. Mainly religious rather than political, the radical Creativity Alliance or Church of Creativity, founded by Ben Klassen in 1973, worships the white race itself rather than any deity, and advocates a radical form of white supremacism known as RAHOWA.
EURO, is a white separatist organization in the United States. Led by former Louisiana state representative, presidential primary candidate and Grand Wizard of the KKK David Duke, it was founded in 2000.[23][24]
Hammerskins, also known as Hammerskin Nation, are a white supremacist group formed in 1988 in Dallas, Texas. Their primary focus is the production and promotion of white power rock music, and many white power bands have been affiliated with the group.
Identity Evropa is an American neo-Nazi and white supremacist organization established in March 2016.
Ku Klux Klan, often abbreviated KKK and informally known as The Klan, is the name of three distinct past and present [25] organizations in the United States, which have advocated extremist reactionary currents such as white supremacy and nationalism. The Klan is classified as a hate group by the Anti-Defamation League and the Southern Poverty Law Center.[26] It is estimated to have between 5,000 and 8,000 members, split among dozens of different organizations that use the Klan name as of 2012.[27]
National Alliance, is a white supremacist political organization. It was founded by William Luther Pierce, and is based in the Pierce family's compound in Hillsboro, West Virginia.
National Association for the Advancement of White People, was a white supremacist organization in the United States incorporated on December 14, 1953 in Delaware by Bryant Bowles which presents itself as a civil rights organization such as the NAACP.
National Policy Institute, is a think tank based in Augusta, Georgia in the United States. It describes itself as the right's answer to the Southern Poverty Law Center.
National Socialist Movement (United States), a party founded in 1974. Since 2005 the party has become very active, staging many marches and demonstrations.
National Vanguard, was an American National Socialist organization based in Charlottesville, Virginia, founded by Kevin Alfred Strom and former members of the National Alliance.
Nationalist Movement, is a Mississippi-based, white supremacist organization that advocates what it calls a "pro-majority" position. It has been called white supremacist by the Associated Press and Anti-Defamation League, among others.[28][29]
Occidental Quarterly, is a printed far-right quarterly journal with a web segment, TOQ Online, including interviews, essays and reviews on the website.[30]
The Order, or Brüder Schweigen ("Silent Brotherhood") was a white supremacist Revolutionary organization founded by Robert Jay Mathews, active 1983-1984, probably best known for the 1984 murder of talk show host Alan Berg. Berg's killing was to be the first in a planned series of assassinations, followed by attacks on the United States government, all meant to bring about a race war which would result in fulfillment of White Separatist ideals (see Northwest Territorial Imperative).
Pacifica Forum, is a controversial discussion group in Eugene, Oregon, United States. It has been listed as a white nationalist[31] hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC).
Patriot Front is a neo-fascist american nationalist group and an offshoot of Vanguard America[32][33][34]
Phineas Priesthood, is a Christian Identity movement that opposes interracial intercourse, the mixing of races, homosexuality, and abortion. It is also marked by its anti-Semitism, anti-multiculturalism, and opposition to taxation.
Pioneer Fund, a white supremacist non-profit that funds scientific racism research.
Volksfront, describes itself as an international fraternal organization for persons of European descent.[35] It has been called "neo-Nazi" and a "racist-skinhead group" in press reports.[36][37][38] The Anti-Defamation League has called the group "one of the most active skinhead groups in the United States."[39] The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) has added Volksfront to its list of hate groups.[40]
White America, Inc., a group founded in Arkansas to prevent racial desegregation of the state's schools.[41]
White Aryan Resistance, is a neo-Nazi white supremacist organization founded and led by former Ku Klux Klan leader Tom Metzger.[42]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_white_nationalist_organizations


----------



## sptrawler (18 June 2020)

Here is an example from the police side of a violent incident, it is a shame protesters can't be bothered marching for police rights, it is after all just a job they shouldn't be treated like this. The police in the incident were attending a domestic violence incident, there is a video attached to the article.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/distressi...m-female-police-officers-scalp-002914077.html
From the article:
_Two police officers on NSW’s Central Coast were responding to reports of a domestic incident about 10.30pm on Tuesday, when they were approached by a 35-year-old man who allegedly became violent as he resisted arrest.

A struggle then ensued as a male and female officer attempted to restrain him, with the terrifying ordeal caught on camera.

The offender allegedly spat at the male officer before assaulting the woman by grabbing her hair. She was allegedly dragged to the ground and a clump of hair was ripped from her scalp.

In the video she can be heard screaming as the man yells, “deal with it”. The male officer then demands the offender to “let go of her”.

In a statement released by police, the female officer became increasingly distressed when she was grabbed around the neck and choked.

The man then allegedly elbowed the male officer in the face and twisted his genitals before additional police came to the aid of their colleague.

The offender can be heard yelling in the video “I can’t breathe” as officers hold him down and wait for back-up.

"Last time I moved you said you couldn’t breathe... and then you grab my partner by the hair and you wouldn't let her go," the male officer can be heard saying_.

Maybe people should watch and listen to the video, and ask themselves, how they would deal with the situation.


----------



## wayneL (18 June 2020)

Cops are quitting en masse in the US.

Mad Max was a prophecy; the left deserves praise for being near to achieving their goal of destroying the United States.


----------



## wayneL (18 June 2020)

White perspective of racism


----------



## moXJO (18 June 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Here is an example from the police side of a violent incident, it is a shame protesters can't be bothered marching for police rights, it is after all just a job they shouldn't be treated like this. The police in the incident were attending a domestic violence incident, there is a video attached to the article.
> https://au.news.yahoo.com/distressi...m-female-police-officers-scalp-002914077.html
> From the article:
> _Two police officers on NSW’s Central Coast were responding to reports of a domestic incident about 10.30pm on Tuesday, when they were approached by a 35-year-old man who allegedly became violent as he resisted arrest.
> ...



I knew of one violent local case in which the male officer was beat with a club till he was unconscious and the female officer had her leg broken and beaten by an ice addicted.

 The more violent the general population becomes the cops then adjust to suit. Society is starting to really push back on authority. They may not like where it ends up

 I also know of cops who are total pricks.


----------



## wayneL (18 June 2020)

How many dozens of videos could I post like this?

There was one of a young white girl probably about 15 being smashed by blm protesters on a train I can't find now.

Just lovely.

Racism cuts both ways and it's about time it stops. It's about l time people like baz and his mates here stop supporting racism.

These are the seeds you leftists have sown.


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (18 June 2020)

wayneL said:


> White perspective of racism





So basically these BLM terrorists will be free to terrorise civilians across the USA and there will be no police on the streets to stop them.


----------



## wayneL (18 June 2020)

Chronos-Plutus said:


> So basically these BLM terrorists will be free to terrorise civilians across the USA and there will be no police on the streets to stop them.



That looks to be the trajectory.

I am hearing of the beginnings of a great exodus from these cities. 

A couple of weeks ago I said I would take evens on martial law by Christmas. I think it's getting more like London to a brick


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (18 June 2020)

wayneL said:


> That looks to be the trajectory.
> 
> I am hearing of the beginnings of a great exodus from these cities.
> 
> A couple of weeks ago I said I would take evens on martial law by Christmas. I think it's getting more like London to a brick




True; many are fleeing the large cities for regional/rural towns. Who would want to live in a city where there are no police to maintain order and there are terrorists looting and rioting on the streets.


----------



## dutchie (18 June 2020)

Chronos-Plutus said:


> So basically these BLM terrorists will be free to terrorise civilians across the USA and there will be no police on the streets to stop them.



Yes.
Eventually the other side will retaliate and do similar things.
Then racism will really take off. 
That's what the people controlling BLM want. Social disruption. Into the void comes the solution - communism.
PS Communism is always racist, especially against blacks.  Ho hum.


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (18 June 2020)

dutchie said:


> Yes.
> Eventually the other side will retaliate and do similar things.
> Then racism will really take off.
> That's what the people controlling BLM want. Social disruption. Into the void comes the solution - communism.
> PS Communism is always racist, especially against blacks.  Ho hum.




Ah, yes: the destruction of social order and institutions, so as to build the communist/socialist utopia.


----------



## moXJO (18 June 2020)

Most are moving out of democrat cities and moving to Republican strongholds. Most republicans are not happy as democrats  basically bring their idiotic thinking along with them and destroy their new nest.

US could go the way of India/Pakistan  and eventually split over ideology.


----------



## moXJO (18 June 2020)

basilio said:


> Here is another perspective.
> White Nationalist Groups in the US
> 
> *United States*
> ...



Which of those democrat support groups are you a member of bas


----------



## moXJO (18 June 2020)

Racism against Asians is very high in the community at the moment. A lot of you honkeys can't tell the difference between Thai, Vietnamese, Filipino, Chinese, Korean etc.

Very different cultures people.


----------



## sptrawler (18 June 2020)

It has taken a while, the first stage was the criminal was more important than the victim(how many stories are about the victim?), now for the next stage the criminals are more important than the the authorities(how many stories are about the behaviour police have to deal with daily?)

It is certainly a weird World, the only people no one gives a crap about are the law abiding, tax paying, workers, who are usually the victims.

Ideology driven by inner city chardonnay sipping yuppies wallowing in their smugness and those on welfare, with nothing to do.
Just my opinion, as usual.


----------



## moXJO (18 June 2020)

sptrawler said:


> It has taken a while, the first stage was the criminal was more important than the victim(how many stories are about the victim?), now for the next stage the criminals are more important than the the authorities(how many stories are about the behaviour police have to deal with daily?)
> 
> It is certainly a weird World, the only people no one gives a crap about are the law abiding, tax paying, workers, who are usually the victims.
> 
> ...



Who do they think pays for the damage to their cities? 
And having to do that takes money away from other resources.
Seems like a total disconnect from reality.


----------



## Klogg (18 June 2020)

sptrawler said:


> It has taken a while, the first stage was the criminal was more important than the victim(how many stories are about the victim?), now for the next stage the criminals are more important than the the authorities(how many stories are about the behaviour police have to deal with daily?)
> 
> It is certainly a weird World, the only people no one gives a crap about are the law abiding, tax paying, workers, who are usually the victims.
> 
> ...




"Ideology driven by inner city chardonnay sipping yuppies wallowing in their smugness and those on welfare, with nothing to do."

Ironically, they've thought about their ideology very little. The term 'white privilege' or 'black lives matter' are racist in and of themselves. The idea that someone who's born is automatically guilty of a crime due to their skin colour - that's THE definition of racism.

It really just feels like a way to push communism, under the guise of racism. "We want the same outcome for everyone" is what they're arguing.

South Africa are going down this path, killing productive white farmers and giving it to the black community. Do this on a large scale, and you kill off your farming capability... your population will starve.
Peterson's reference to the Kulaks is very relevant here.

Luckily, the silent majority are firmly in control (Trump/Morrison/Johnson voted in), so the Western world is largely safe for investors (given this is ASF, I thought that's relevant).


----------



## dutchie (18 June 2020)

moXJO said:


> Which of those democrat support groups are you a member of bas



ROFL


----------



## sptrawler (18 June 2020)

sptrawler said:


> It has taken a while, the first stage was the criminal was more important than the victim(how many stories are about the victim?), now for the next stage the criminals are more important than the the authorities(how many stories are about the behaviour police have to deal with daily?)




I don't think I explained that well ( in a rush), but what I meant by it was, these days there is always a reason to excuse criminal behaviour. 
Take for example if someone bashes a person into a coma, you hear about the criminals diminished responsibility due to being drug or alcohol affected and the fact they should either not be incarcerated or have a reduced sentence. 
What if the person bashed never fully recovers, he and his family may well suffer for the rest of their lives?
In fact the victim in today's world, are portrayed as contributing to the crime, by being in the wrong place and putting themselves in danger.
Well IMO these riots are taking it to a whole new level, and in reality will leave decent law abiding people at the mercy of mob rule, because their behaviour is being sanctioned and justified by the media.
Just my opinion.


----------



## Klogg (18 June 2020)

basilio said:


> IMV one critical issue on why fair wages, quality products and environmental safeguards are losing badly at the moment is the intense competition amongst  capitalists to be the richest guy on the block (or the  world)
> 
> The evidence is that since the early 80's the share of  national income that has gone to the top 1% or less has risen dramatically. This determination to extract ever increasing profits from the economic system has inevitably meant keeping ages down, reducing work opportunities and cutting every corner when it comes to environmental issues.
> 
> ...




How is it a bad thing, that the most productive people get bigger payoffs - and they compound. That's the basis of capitalism. Inequality in itself is not a bad thing, so long as the extra status/money is earned.

You have to provide and incentive or people to increase productivity. If you want equality of outcome (as appealing as the idea sounds) try the USSR.

As the world creates greater inequalities, it also creates new ways of production. In turn, these increaese living standards for everyone else. Those on a median income today live far, far better lives than the royalty of 100 years ago. And we have incentive systems to thank - the same systems that cause inequality.


----------



## wayneL (18 June 2020)

moXJO said:


> Racism against Asians is very high in the community at the moment. A lot of you honkeys can't tell the difference between Thai, Vietnamese, Filipino, Chinese, Korean etc.
> 
> Very different cultures people.



It's pretty stupid and unfair. 99.9% of individuals have nothing to do with the actions of government.

But we do live in ridiculous times

If true that's very disappointing.


----------



## wayneL (18 June 2020)

Found it. Here's your cultural enrichment and diversity is our strength you leftist p1ssants.

This girl is 16.

S I X T E E N !

Broad daylight on the Melbourne transit.

Thanks.


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## dutchie (18 June 2020)

wayneL said:


> Found it. Here's your cultural enrichment and diversity is our strength you leftist p1ssants.
> 
> This girl is 16.
> 
> ...




Absolutely disgusting.
Violence for the sake of violence (just like BLM movement in US and UK et al)
Always with the safety of packs.


----------



## againsthegrain (18 June 2020)

wayneL said:


> Found it. Here's your cultural enrichment and diversity is our strength you leftist p1ssants.
> 
> This girl is 16.
> 
> ...





It might not even be blm protestors,  getting quiet common in Melbourne on certain train lines for african gangs to display public racist violence


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## sptrawler (19 June 2020)

The U.S police have tracked down a women who set fire to a police car, I hope she has to pay for it , rather than the taxpayer.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/lore-elisabeth-blumenthal-fbi-protest-arson-etsy-review-112757280.html


----------



## Knobby22 (20 June 2020)

sptrawler said:


> The U.S police have tracked down a women who set fire to a police car, I hope she has to pay for it , rather than the taxpayer.
> 
> https://au.news.yahoo.com/lore-elisabeth-blumenthal-fbi-protest-arson-etsy-review-112757280.html



Probably get a long jail term.


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## moXJO (20 June 2020)

Protesters in Australia are being whipped into a bit of a frenzy after the court ruling. Here's hoping they are not lead to rioting by a small number of those that want to turn the protests violent for their own causes.

Similarly there are a lot of black attack white videos coming from Europe posters hitting the various social media sites in an attempt to cause further division. Be aware that the extremes either side are stoking the flames.


----------



## Kerway (20 June 2020)

Chronos-Plutus said:


> The rise of globalisation, in tandem with government policy to just sit back and rely on selling our iron ore and coal abroad, has in effect decimated Australia's industrial capacity.




This is something I noticed almost immediately after emigrating here more than a decade ago. Future generations are going to pay dearly when the resources run out or if China no longer buys them.

The other thing that disappointed me is that far too many young Australians choose to pursue a trade or become relatively unskilled labourers, shop assistants etc instead of more academic careers. We have the most expensive tradies in the world, which has contributed to high property prices and the virtual elimination of the manufacturing industry. I would like to see more young Australians take up a career in business, especially management.

We should be bringing in skilled and unskilled labourers and tradesmen on work visas to work in industry under Australian management. The lower wage rates would make Australian manufacturing industries more competitive. The Trades Union would be up in arms about this, but they are far too powerful and need their wings clipped anyway.


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## sptrawler (20 June 2020)

Kerway said:


> This is something I noticed almost immediately after emigrating here more than a decade ago. Future generations are going to pay dearly when the resources run out or if China no longer buys them.
> 
> The other thing that disappointed me is that far too many young Australians choose to pursue a trade or become relatively unskilled labourers, shop assistants etc instead of more academic careers. We have the most expensive tradies in the world, which has contributed to high property prices and the virtual elimination of the manufacturing industry. I would like to see more young Australians take up a career in business, especially management.
> 
> We should be bringing in skilled and unskilled labourers and tradesmen on work visas to work in industry under Australian management. The lower wage rates would make Australian manufacturing industries more competitive. The Trades Union would be up in arms about this, but they are far too powerful and need their wings clipped anyway.



Wow, you have to be carefull where you voice that opinion.


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## sptrawler (23 June 2020)

Not racial but kind of a follow on from the discussion, this was an interesting article, shows how bad shooting problems are in the U.S.
This article sounds as though it is a long weekend in Chicago
https://au.news.yahoo.com/teen-killed-stray-bullet-showing-mum-tik-tok-dance-062511377.html
From the article:
_A teenage girl has been shot and killed by a stray bullet while showing her mother some new dance moves from TikTok.

Amaria Jones, 13, was standing with her mum in the living room of their Chicago home on June 20 when the bullet pierced the window, passed through the TV and hit her in the neck, according to the local CBS station.
The 13-year-old is the one of five children killed in a spree of shootings over the Father’s Day weekend in the US.
A total of 102 people were shot in Chicago, killing 13 people. 
The Chicago community is also mourning the death of Mekhi James, 3, who was shot and killed while riding in his stepdad’s car_.

It is a lot different to life in Australia.


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## Chronos-Plutus (23 June 2020)

Kerway said:


> This is something I noticed almost immediately after emigrating here more than a decade ago. Future generations are going to pay dearly when the resources run out or if China no longer buys them.
> 
> The other thing that disappointed me is that far too many young Australians choose to pursue a trade or become relatively unskilled labourers, shop assistants etc instead of more academic careers. We have the most expensive tradies in the world, which has contributed to high property prices and the virtual elimination of the manufacturing industry. I would like to see more young Australians take up a career in business, especially management.
> 
> We should be bringing in skilled and unskilled labourers and tradesmen on work visas to work in industry under Australian management. The lower wage rates would make Australian manufacturing industries more competitive. The Trades Union would be up in arms about this, but they are far too powerful and need their wings clipped anyway.




Australian tradesmen are arguably up there with the best in world when it comes to quality and workmanship.

If you can't afford them, then try do it yourself. An influx of poorly skilled tradesmen from other parts of the world might just cost you more.


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## Kerway (24 June 2020)

Chronos-Plutus said:


> Australian tradesmen are arguably up there with the best in world when it comes to quality and workmanship.




You appear to have missed the point completely.

Nobody has said that our tradies don't do a good job. The point is that we don't have enough young people pursuing academic careers, especially in business management or IT. If we had more young entrepreneurs we would have more businesses and could employ more people. This would prepare the country for the day when our resources run out. At present, the nation is heavily dependent on exporting raw materials. We should be adding value to the resources we mine, not simply exporting them.


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## dutchie (25 June 2020)

There is a lot of hate out there at the moment.
It's hard not to get infected by it, to different degrees.
I have watched a lot of the action that has played out over the last few months.
There is good and bad on both sides.
We should all try to get rid of racism in the world. Unfortunately that will be difficult.
I think the west had come a long way in doing so even though there was more work to be done.
The current situation is just moving back the progress we had made.
There is now more hate and racism than there was 6 months ago, on both sides (multiple sides now).
If I was looking at this logically and statistically I would come to the conclusion that Blue lives matter.
Police are not paid enough for the sh#t they have to put up with.
Who on earth would want their children to choose policing as a career.
Respect for one another all goes back to the common factor.
No guidance and love at home then no respect outside the home.
Of course all lives matter. That should be the bottom line.


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## wayneL (25 June 2020)

dutchie said:


> There is a lot of hate out there at the moment.
> It's hard not to get infected by it, to different degrees.
> I have watched a lot of the action that has played out over the last few months.
> There is good and bad on both sides.
> ...



And that is absolutely main point and the truth Dutchie. The postmodernists,  identitarians and grievance industry is actually ramping up racism markedly. Whereupon, as you point out, our society was gradually, but surely removing racism, those clowns have made sure that we have gone backwards 50 years.

It's almost as if there is in agenda in creating that.... Divide and rule, anyone?


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## moXJO (25 June 2020)

wayneL said:


> And that is absolutely main point and the truth Dutchie. The postmodernists,  identitarians and grievance industry is actually ramping up racism markedly. Whereupon, as you point out, our society was gradually, but surely removing racism, those clowns have made sure that we have gone backwards 50 years.
> 
> It's almost as if there is in agenda in creating that.... Divide and rule, anyone?



Yep, I'm seeing it at it's worst for years. It has been creeping back for a while.


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## wayneL (25 June 2020)

@basilio, I would be interested in you comments on this man's points.


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## wayneL (25 June 2020)

I love her. She is the epitome of logic a reconciliatiatory(sic) attitude.


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## Kerway (25 June 2020)

wayneL said:


> It's almost as if there is in agenda in creating that.... Divide and rule, anyone?




I don't believe that an agenda exists.

I do believe that, due to cultural differences, blacks are falling behind other races in terms of their economic wellbeing. They are being told by many people, black and white, that this is due to racism, and are understandably angry.  Racism does still exist but it is on the decline. Excessive force used by policemen against black citizens is an excuse by militants to stir up unrest amongst the black communities.

i also believe that cultural differences are also the reason why people of Asian descent are prospering at a faster rate than whites. Asian children seem to be far more ambitious than our children.


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## wayneL (25 June 2020)

Kerway said:


> I don't believe that an agenda exists.
> 
> I do believe that, due to cultural differences, blacks are falling behind other races in terms of their economic wellbeing. They are being told by many people, black and white, that this is due to racism, and are understandably angry.  Racism does still exist but it is on the decline. Excessive force used by policemen against black citizens is an excuse by militants to stir up unrest amongst the black communities.
> 
> i also believe that cultural differences are also the reason why people of Asian descent are prospering at a faster rate than whites. Asian children seem to be far more ambitious than our children.



I half agree, but strongly disagree but there isn't some sort of an agenda not necessarily from  rank and file black people. 

I also think that as a result, racism is rising from both sides... Unfortunately. Your own words illustrate how this is happening.


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## Kerway (25 June 2020)

wayneL said:


> but strongly disagree there isn't some sort of an agenda not necessarily from rank and file black people.




What kind of an agenda do you have in mind?


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## wayneL (26 June 2020)

Kerway said:


> What kind of an agenda do you have in mind?



BLM the organisation for instance is a Marxist organisation. 

Have a listen to the Zuby vid I posted elsewhere.


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## wayneL (26 June 2020)

The soft racism of low expectations


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## wayneL (26 June 2020)

A very smart black woman on the racist Democratic party.


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## dutchie (29 June 2020)




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## SirRumpole (29 June 2020)

wayneL said:


> A very smart black woman on the racist Democratic party.





Oh yea, just ask Obama.

This thread has become ridiculous.


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## wayneL (29 June 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Oh yea, just ask Obama.
> 
> This thread has become ridiculous.



What is it about this black woman's points that you don't agree, Horace?

Really interested, bro.


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## SirRumpole (29 June 2020)

wayneL said:


> What is it about this black woman's points that you don't agree, Horace?
> 
> Really interested, bro.




Not really interested wayne and I don't know enough about US politics to say whether she is right or wrong, but would a racist party put up with a black President ? 

A bit of simple research reveals that ALL the black Americans elected to the House of Reps from 1971 to date are members of the Democratic Party.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_African-American_United_States_Representatives

So the one person you quote seems to be an outlier. Why are you taking her word over the facts ?


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## wayneL (29 June 2020)

I would advise to listen to the video again.


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## dutchie (30 June 2020)

CHAZ is a great example of the Marxist utopia.


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## dutchie (30 June 2020)

Don't be duped by confusing the BLM marxist movement and black lives matter.


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## dutchie (30 June 2020)

And now the Marxists are coming for Mount Rushmore....


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## Knobby22 (4 July 2020)

Black lives matter movement is achieving some  change.

In Colorado in August 2019 a black man was picked up on the street injected with a sedative and put in a chokehold till dead.

The coroner said method of death was unknown but someone leaked a picture the white officers took smiling and re enacting the choking.

3 officers were sacked and the fourth resigned a day later and now the incident is being reviewed with possible charges.

Read SBS news.


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## macca (4 July 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Black lives matter movement is achieving some  change.
> 
> In Colorado in August 2019 a black man was picked up on the street injected with a sedative and put in a chokehold till dead.
> 
> ...




Good !! 

I have felt that the USA was ripe for a revolution for some time but right now with China being aggressive it really does not suit the world.

Hopefully open cases like this, open court rooms at the trials, swift suspension and realistic outcomes of the trials will calm things down and lead to change.


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## basilio (5 July 2020)

Getting totally fed up with the out of control pushing over of statues and monuments in the US.
Just becoming ridiculous.


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## moXJO (5 July 2020)

basilio said:


> Getting totally fed up with the out of control pushing over of statues and monuments in the US.
> Just becoming ridiculous.



It's being pushed by a small group. Generally it's blamed on  "anarchists" . But far left and right have been pushing this together. People are attempting to take over city blocks at the moment.

Not far off a much larger problem imo.

Huge generation shift, coupled with some dangerous thinking.


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## dutchie (8 July 2020)




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## wayneL (10 July 2020)

I'm interested in the responses to this from @basilio @rederob @IFocus and any other of our cultural Marxists/postmodernistas


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## dutchie (10 July 2020)

wayneL said:


> I'm interested in the responses to this from @basilio @rederob @IFocus and any other of our cultural Marxists/oostmodernistas




They won't say boo.


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## IFocus (11 July 2020)

Tucker........Fox News........seriously  YAFK


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## wayneL (12 July 2020)

IFocus said:


> Tucker........Fox News........seriously  YAFK



Great argument, really, such logic, I'm in awe.


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## rederob (12 July 2020)

IFocus said:


> Tucker........Fox News........seriously  YAFK



Proposing a logical fallacy as the basis of a "thought experiment" exposes the intellectual ineptitude of  FOX News.
I fully understand why people watch and believe Fox News.


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## wayneL (12 July 2020)

Okay thanks guys.

Your non-answers are illuminating.

I shall prepare myself for what is to come accordingly.


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## basilio (12 July 2020)

*Tucker Carlson's top writer resigns after secretly posting racist and sexist remarks in online forum*
The top writer for Fox News host Tucker Carlson has for years been using a pseudonym to post bigoted remarks on an online forum that is a hotbed for racist, sexist, and other offensive content, CNN Business learned this week.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/10/media/tucker-carlson-writer-blake-neff/index.html


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## wayneL (12 July 2020)

The question isn't about Tucker, bas. I'm not interested in that. I'm interested in the content of the vid.


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## Knobby22 (12 July 2020)

wayneL said:


> The question isn't about Tucker, bas. I'm not interested in that. I'm interested in the content of the vid.



The problem with the vid is the complete lack of context. 

It's aim is only to create hate and anger. It can't be taken seriously. 

I wasted 5 minutes watching it. Just a beat up.


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## wayneL (12 July 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> The problem with the vid is the complete lack of context.
> 
> It's aim is only to create hate and anger. It can't be taken seriously.
> 
> I wasted 5 minutes watching it. Just a beat up.



Reporting it is hate and anger, yet the actions of Seattle aren't hate and anger?

Right, interesting.


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## Knobby22 (12 July 2020)

wayneL said:


> Reporting it is hate and anger, yet the actions of Seattle aren't hate and anger?
> 
> Right, interesting.



Ordered to give up objectivity, yea right.
Did it make you furious? That is it's only aim. Keep you in line.


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## wayneL (13 July 2020)

These are the sorts of conversations we should be having in my opinion


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## dutchie (15 July 2020)




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## Macquack (16 July 2020)

Looks more like when profits are put before safety, aka Boeing Max 8.


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## dutchie (17 July 2020)




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## basilio (19 July 2020)

Racist woman gets instant karma.
You have to see why she called the cops on her black neighbors.


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## Knobby22 (19 July 2020)

Little wins.


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## moXJO (19 July 2020)

basilio said:


> Racist woman gets instant karma.
> You have to see why she called the cops on her black neighbors.




Less to do with racism and more to do with "entitled white women" syndrome. See this a lot in Australia. Will argue with and put anyone down. Very controlling.


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## wayneL (24 July 2020)

Hilarious thread


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## dutchie (24 July 2020)

wayneL said:


> Hilarious thread




She is doing such a great job for the SJW's


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## noirua (13 October 2020)

*Mexico removes Columbus statue ahead of annual protest*
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/worl...d-of-annual-protest/ar-BB19X2OB?ocid=msedgdhp

Sometimes there can be a certain hypocrisy that chooses what is offensive and what it chooses to turn a blind eye to.  After all, the song 'Amazing Grace' was written by a former slave trader and captain of slave ships.


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## IFocus (14 October 2020)

noirua said:


> *Mexico removes Columbus statue ahead of annual protest*
> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/worl...d-of-annual-protest/ar-BB19X2OB?ocid=msedgdhp
> 
> Sometimes there can be a certain hypocrisy that chooses what is offensive and what it chooses to turn a blind eye to.  After all, the song 'Amazing Grace' was written by a former slave trader and captain of slave ships.





I travelled overland for 12 months with the mob on buses and trains in Mexico, Central and South America in 87 and 88, the stark difference between indigenous / mix race and the white ruling elite by any measurement was some thing to behold.

Its easy to understand frustrations taken out at past symbols not that it will change anything another issue for the region was endemic corruption no matter who ran the joint.


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## DB008 (28 October 2020)

BLM and MSM manipulation.


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## noirua (15 August 2022)

White people are being ‘replaced’ at an alarming rate, with people who have no diversity and will ironically destroy a gene pool of diver...
					

White people are being ‘replaced’ at an alarming rate, with people who have no diversity and will ironically destroy a gene pool of diversity.  Believe it or not, despite the media telling you that white people are bland, boring and ‘not diverse’. There is not a single group in the world more div...




					qr.ae


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## noirua (15 September 2022)

The true costs of the Tulsa race massacre, 100 years later
					

2021 marks 100 years since the infamous 1921 massacre in Tulsa, in which white mobs unleashed violence against the city’s Black people, Black institutions, and Black wealth.




					www.brookings.edu
				



According to a 2001 report by the Oklahoma Commission to Study the Tulsa Race Riot of 1921, at least 1,256 homes were destroyed, alongside churches, schools, businesses, and hospitals. Greenwood residents would go on to file over $1.8 million dollars in damage claims; in today’s dollars, this would be over $27 million. All but one of these claims were denied; a white shop owner was given compensation for guns taken from his shop. The report acknowledges, however, that not all residents took out insurance or filed claims.
https://www.brookings.edu/research/...cxATZ9W581MCMPKuOEuPWJqLWEKSY6tc8ECt9mXNBPE6o


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