# How to maximise my spare 2 hours a day - what to learn?



## Steve C (5 March 2015)

Hi guys,

I am fairly lucky to have a well paying role that has a large amount of autonomy meaning as long as the KPI's are met the company is happy. I have become very efficient and high performing in my role and I am finding by 3pm most days I can close my laptop. 

This has given me the ability to be doing something else from 3-5pm each day. I really want to focus this time on stocks to create some extra weekly income. I have done quite a bit of reading on trading over the last year or so as well as delving in to many threads on this forum including areas beyond my current knowledge/area of comfort like future's and trading with leverage.

I am at the point now where I am extremely dedicated and willing to learn, I just don't know what exactly I should be reading/studying and focusing on. I like Nick Radge's work but see those as more a long term wealth building strategy. I guess what I am asking for is opinions on the best strategy/ area to study to help me make a bit of extra money each week. What should I dedicate myself to studying? What software do I need? What market should I trade? The ASX is naturally the most comfortable for me, would short term T/A trading work?

Thanks


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## ThingyMajiggy (5 March 2015)

Why is it always stocks. 

Futures people, futures. Much more bang for buck, can go either long or short, cheaper to trade, markets open all the time. By all means go with stocks if you really want to, but I'd be looking at futures if I were you. Have a look at the "People who want to be rich are doing it wrong" or whatever it's called thread, and Pav's futures thread. 

If you have no idea what I'm talking about, look up/read about what futures are first and go from there, then in around 10,000 hours of screen time and pushing yourself, you should be doing okay...ish  

Just my


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## Sakk (5 March 2015)

Look at trading an index, such as HSI or DAX.  HSI re-opens at 4pm (Sydney time) until 7.15pm 

I use Interactive Brokers and Ninjatrader.  Ninjatrader is free.  I would recommend reading TH posts.

Good luck.


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## Steve C (5 March 2015)

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Why is it always stocks.
> 
> Futures people, futures. Much more bang for buck, can go either long or short, cheaper to trade, markets open all the time. By all means go with stocks if you really want to, but I'd be looking at futures if I were you. Have a look at the "People who want to be rich are doing it wrong" or whatever it's called thread, and Pav's futures thread.
> 
> ...




Is it possible to trade Futures without leverage?


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## Ves (5 March 2015)

ThingyMajiggy said:


> If you have no idea what I'm talking about, look up/read about what futures are first and go from there, then in around 10,000 hours of screen time and pushing yourself, you should be doing okay...ish



Well,  if he does it every week day for 2 hours between 3-5pm,  and works 45 weeks of the year  (which is about average,  if you're not sick much,  take annual leave and public holidays).

That's 450 hours a year.

After 22 years he _should_ be doing okay...ish.


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## skc (5 March 2015)

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Futures people, futures. Much more bang for buck, can go either long or short, cheaper to trade, markets open all the time. By all means go with stocks if you really want to, but I'd be looking at futures if I were you. Have a look at the "People who want to be rich are doing it wrong" or whatever it's called thread, and Pav's futures thread.




I think he came from that thread.



Steve C said:


> Is it possible to trade Futures without leverage?




Definitely read up what Futures are for starters.



Ves said:


> Well,  if he does it every week day for 2 hours between 3-5pm,  and works 45 weeks of the year  (which is about average,  if you're not sick much,  take annual leave and public holidays).
> 
> That's 450 hours a year.
> 
> After 22 years he _should_ be doing okay...ish.




Thank you. Nothing puts a bit of clarity into the situation than numerical facts.



Steve C said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I am fairly lucky to have a well paying role that has a large amount of autonomy meaning as long as the KPI's are met the company is happy. I have become very efficient and high performing in my role and I am finding by 3pm most days I can close my laptop.
> 
> ...




SPI is open until 4:30pm so may be it's a good place to start. Given how new you are, it really doesn't matter which market you pick... you are not trading it anyway. Your first 4 weeks should be focused on finding out what you don't know. Then spend the next 2 years knowing (and doing) what you need to know. Then spend another 5 years on getting better at doing what you know you need to know.

Here's what I'd do in the first month. 
1. Read up on the basics of futures (ASX/SFE website would do).
2. Set up a simulation for SPI (someone else will have to walk thru that).
3. Read on ASF how someone else trades and try to copy that on the simulator.

At the end of the month, you should have absolutely no idea what you are doing. Any simulated P&L will be purely due to chance. But hopefully, you should have developed some questions, hypotheses, and directions to explore further. If you haven't, keep going for another month or two. If nothing comes at the end of it, re-focus on your current career...


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## ThingyMajiggy (5 March 2015)

Ves said:


> Well,  if he does it every week day for 2 hours between 3-5pm,  and works 45 weeks of the year  (which is about average,  if you're not sick much,  take annual leave and public holidays).
> 
> That's 450 hours a year.
> 
> After 22 years he _should_ be doing okay...ish.




Haha there's always one  

In other words, stick at it because it will be tough. Surely you've heard of the whole 10,000 hours thing to become an "expert".



skc said:


> I think he came from that thread.




Ahh yep looks like it, haven't been in there for a while.


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## pavilion103 (5 March 2015)

10,000 hours is to become a world class expert. And that is 10,000 hours of intense learning (apparently). 

In order to become profitable it won't take 10,000 hours. 

I've probably spend a few thousand hours at the moment (not all intense). 

I think once you learn the foundation and have enough to be profitable then it comes down to psychology and ability to stick to the "plan" (provided it's a good one).


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## Steve C (5 March 2015)

skc said:


> I think he came from that thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply.

My biggest issue I am finding is what strategy/technique to spend my time focusing on. Given my goal is to supplement my income and make a few extra dollars each fornight/month, what would be a good way of going about it?

I have just printed "Master the Markets" which seems to focus on VSA, is this something that would be a good idea? 

My exposure to technical analysis so far is just the typical MA, Bollinger Bands etc

I guess I am after a simple, proven method that I can dedicate myself to learning each day.


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## tech/a (5 March 2015)

Buy a proven method and trade it.
Radge has turn key codes available.
You can lease methods as well.


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## Steve C (5 March 2015)

tech/a said:


> Buy a proven method and trade it.
> Radge has turn key codes available.
> You can lease methods as well.




Thanks Tech/A I will start looking in to this. I have Nick's book "Unholy Grails" but it seems these are longer term trading techniques as oppose to making some extra money each week.


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## Ves (5 March 2015)

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Haha there's always one
> 
> In other words, stick at it because it will be tough. Surely you've heard of the whole 10,000 hours thing to become an "expert".



Indeed,  I have.   And I disagree with it.   It's generally preached by people who believe in absolute equality of skill and outcomes.

I also think there's a second consideration:  10,000 hours is a massive amount of time.   Since we have finite life spans,   I don't think at that point that it's about money or income,  it's more about passion and enjoyment.   By all means start the journey,  and figure out if you enjoy it before wondering whether you'll be an expert or not.


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## rb250660 (5 March 2015)

If technical analysis and mechanical trading are your thing, buy Amibroker and learn how to code in it. That way you can code any ideas you have and backtest. Also brush up on your statistics if you want to develop new trading ideas/indicators for short term trading and performance monitoring. Forget buying code, thats someone elses system and i find i hard to believe you would trade it to the letter over the longer term required. Ive been there and done that, now i just write my own indicators and strategies in Amibroker, validate and trade.

Edit: you could buy Nicks code and steal bits out of it if so inclined, eg position sizing, stop loops etc if its too hard to do yourself.

And who came up with this 10,000hrs mumbo jumbo, what a load of b/s.


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## tech/a (5 March 2015)

It's a long road the large majority fail particularly futures traders.
But they are the best in my view for daily pickings.
I trade the Dax 2-4 times a week in the first 2 hrs of the open.
But I've 20 yrs experience.

I can't give you an easy quick fix answer.
It's just screen time and sim time.

Learn how to identify when momentum is building and when it's stopping.
Then learn how to manage your trading.
PAV is good but I'm even stricter.

Keep watching the futures thread there are some gems.
Problem is you'll need a data feed and they aren't cheap.
You'll need good Software and that's not cheap.

No easy answer.


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## tech/a (5 March 2015)

> And who came up with this 10,000hrs mumbo jumbo, what a load of b/s.




Nah it's about right.


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## darkhorse70 (6 March 2015)

Currently trying to spend 5 hrs a day sim trading.
You get the good days and the bad days where you feel so bad you're ready or feel like throwing in the towel.

My motto is dont complain about losing till youve done 10k hours haha.


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## tech/a (6 March 2015)

darkhorse70 said:


> Currently trying to spend 5 hrs a day sim trading.
> You get the good days and the bad days where you feel so bad you're ready or feel like throwing in the towel.
> 
> My motto is dont complain about losing till youve done 10k hours haha.




Provided its Sim Trading and *NOT* Sim Guessing!!!


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## darkhorse70 (6 March 2015)

Haha some times i leave the critical thinking part out of it.


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## Steve C (6 March 2015)

Well I have spent the last 7 hours reading about Bollinger Bands and watching tutorials.

I have looked at over 100 different charts and can definitely see the merits of the indicator. 

The problem is, this all just seems to simple? With everything I have read today I feel like I could go and buy a stock, but it can't be that simple, can someone become an expert at Bollinger Bands combined with some understanding of volume and make a profitable few trades a week?

I noticed in Radge's book "Unholy Grails" the humble BBO strategy had the highest return. It just seems far to easy and simple compared to the strategies I see you guys talking about on here.

Does anyone use it in real life trading and has made a profit?

My other question is, I have seen two methods used, buy long once the top band has been surpassed and sell when it hits the MA line OR buy when it hits the lower band - any thoughts?

I am just about to begin reading Master the Markets by Tom Williams which is all about VSA so perhaps the two can be used together.


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## Steve C (6 March 2015)

darkhorse70 said:


> Currently trying to spend 5 hrs a day sim trading.
> You get the good days and the bad days where you feel so bad you're ready or feel like throwing in the towel.
> 
> My motto is dont complain about losing till youve done 10k hours haha.




Hi Darkhorse, out of interest what program are you using and what strategy?


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## fiftyeight (6 March 2015)

If indicators and strategies are your thing, then download ninja trader for free and use their free historical data. 

There are 1000s of free indicators all over the net you can download and play with


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## darkhorse70 (7 March 2015)

Hey Steve, im using ninja trader as advised by the pros on here.
Just using the simulator on it.

I wasted one whole year reading on books and trying to trade with minimal screen time other than drawing lines on  charts and slowly waiting for it to unfold and see if it worked or not. The sim on ninja trader is great. Just replay any date you want and fast forward it and keep doing it till some thing makes sense enough to become profitable.

Good luck mate


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## pinkboy (8 March 2015)

darkhorse70 said:


> Hey Steve, im using ninja trader as advised by the pros on here.
> Just using the simulator on it.
> 
> I wasted one whole year reading on books and trying to trade with minimal screen time other than drawing lines on  charts and slowly waiting for it to unfold and see if it worked or not. The sim on ninja trader is great. Just replay any date you want and fast forward it and keep doing it till some thing makes sense enough to become profitable.
> ...




DH70, Im somewhat calmed by your progressive maturing to trading from your start time on the forum to now.  Kudos.

With respect to the OP, I have found something useful from this thread as I too will have some time on my hands next year to perhaps 'trade' instead of my current 'accumulation' of equities.


pinkboy


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## CanOz (8 March 2015)

Actually, I'd be happy if someone could show me how to find a spare two hours prior day!


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## Steve C (8 March 2015)

Thanks for the all the replies.

I am halfway through "Master the Markets" by Tom Williams and all I can say is wow, what a fantastic read. It makes complete sense and has really opened my eyes.

I am also awaiting the arrival of Bollinger on Bollinger bands which I am very interested in learning the finer details of.

I would be keen to apply VSA together with Bollinger bands and do some simulations as they seem to be complementary methods.


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## darkhorse70 (8 March 2015)

Thanks pinkboy. A dangerous concuctionon of ambition, igorance and lack of experience can make you dillusional some times.

But on a serious note im glad this forum exists. It really can make the difference between failure amd success.


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## Modest (9 March 2015)

Hello 

If you have spare time I would highly recommend watching all 24 hours of Al Brook's trading videos followed by reading Lance Begg's Price Action Trader volumes. In fact if you're pretty clued up on the foundations of Price Action jump straight into Lance Begg's material - Al Brooks and Lance Begs have had the biggest impact on my trading so far.


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