# First trade ever



## lzen5 (6 January 2010)

have been paying attention to the market for a while, havent read any books or anything, dont really know a thing about how the stock market works, finally decided to take the plunge today. bought some rio tinto for 80-something. just gonna leave it there for a year or two. hope I have made the right chioce.


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## nomore4s (6 January 2010)

80 something?

Today's high was only $78.89.


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## skc (6 January 2010)

nomore4s said:


> 80 something?
> 
> Today's high was only $78.89.




Minimum block of 7 shares at $78 + $30 brokerage makes $82.3 cost per share?


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## nomore4s (6 January 2010)

skc said:


> Minimum block of 7 shares at $78 + $30 brokerage makes $82.3 cost per share?




mmm probably, fair enough


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## lzen5 (6 January 2010)

hehe you are right, it was 78, didnt really pay attention to how much , just thought:"hey, i might buy some stock today."....


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## skc (6 January 2010)

lzen5 said:


> hehe you are right, it was 78, didnt really pay attention to how much , just thought:"hey, i might buy some stock today."....




You have already made $2! 

I will pray that BHP have a second tilt on RIO for you.


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## lzen5 (6 January 2010)

hehe, thanks. hope it all work out better than just putting it all in the bank.


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## lukeaye (6 January 2010)

skc said:


> You have already made $2!
> 
> I will pray that BHP have a second tilt on RIO for you.




Then we are both praying for the same thing!


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## condog (7 January 2010)

Do some google searches on how to find good companies by Roger Montgomery .....right now a few of his favourites include CBA, JBH and WOW
or better still do yourself a huge favour and buy 
"a concise guide to Value investing by Brian McNiven" you should find it online for maybe $10 and it will save / make you thousands over the years....

Ive read and have a library of hundreds of financial / broking / investing / trading books and by far  this is the best and easiest to read for all beginners....itrs only 210 small pages, with plenty of diagrams and simple well explained language....

If you cannot consistently make money after reading that book and the markets doing Ok, then give up....


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## Mr J (7 January 2010)

lzen5 said:


> hehe you are right, it was 78, didnt really pay attention to how much , just thought:"hey, i might buy some stock today."....




Seems like nobody is being harsh, so I will be: if this is how you will approach trading/"investing", then you shouldn't do it.


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## nomore4s (7 January 2010)

condog said:


> If you cannot consistently make money after reading that book and the markets doing Ok, then give up....




lol, or maybe find something that works. Giving up achieves nothing, anyone can learn to be profitable in the markets - just takes time and hard work.


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## jono1887 (7 January 2010)

Mr J said:


> Seems like nobody is being harsh, so I will be: if this is how you will approach trading/"investing", then you shouldn't do it.




Very true. You don't just make random purchases and not even know your buy price after purchasing. Perhaps more research and practice is required before you decide to risk your own money.


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## condog (9 January 2010)

nomore4s said:


> lol, or maybe find something that works. Giving up achieves nothing, anyone can learn to be profitable in the markets - just takes time and hard work.




Thats what im elluding too...this is a pretty safe and effective strategy with no profit skimming, no smoke and mirros, no nasty surprises....Any beginner should benefit immensley from his knowledge....


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## lzen5 (22 January 2010)

ok, now that i am freaking out, today i had a look, i bought rio at $79. it hasnt been going up at all. my original plan is hold the stock for 2+ years and see where it ends up.  but by the textbook definition, i should sell when it hits a stop-loss price, which i have not set. but it would have been around 10% mark. so now that i have a conflict in the strategy, I have an optimistic view about the market and i dont really want to sell but all books says sell, so what do I do?


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## lzen5 (22 January 2010)

i can see how my blind confidence is effected by the market. but there is no doubt RIO is going to go back to 120+ days, its just question of when. but despite recent good news (high production/ Chinas economical revival), its still not going up. how long is the aussie dollar going to remain high for, thats the question. with the US government issueing cash like never before and high likehood of rate rises in australia. I really see AUD and commodity prices soaring. Yet, the market has defied ALL of my expectations. is that usual? when the market tells you the opposite what you expect, what do you do?


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## Aussiest (22 January 2010)

Part of the forum rules is not to give people financial advise. I guess the thing is:

You had a two year plan.

Do you own the shares outright? If not and you had CFDs, then holding would be difficult due to interest costs.

You've got to think about whether you can see the price falling even more and whether you'd be prepared to buy back in. But, do you have the balls / stupidity (depending on how you look at it) to hold?

Do some research on RIO and see what you think.

It's up to you :dunno:

PS. Note for next time: set a break even stop loss as soon as you can.


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## lzen5 (22 January 2010)

Aussiest said:


> Part of the forum rules is not to give people financial advise. I guess the thing is:
> 
> You had a two year plan.
> 
> ...




thanks for the reply, I have a two year plan, i am just going to stick to it. its either money in term deposit or money in shares. I think i'd have more faith in the return in shares in the next a couple of years. 

I guess the real question is how should i handle it when the market goes against your plan? is stop lost  price really relavent in a medium/long-term plan ?


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## nomore4s (22 January 2010)

lzen5 said:


> I guess the real question is how should i handle it when the market goes against your plan?




That should be part of your plan.


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## Aussiest (22 January 2010)

lzen5 said:


> is stop lost  price really relavent in a medium/long-term plan ?




Well, put it this way: take a look at BNB and ABC Learning. You've got to work out for yourself whether you can see RIO going this way.

I guess the lesson learned here is to create a plan, esp. in relation to stop losses. Nobody here can really tell you what to do because, as i suggested before, it is against forum rules to offer financial advise.


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## lzen5 (22 January 2010)

Last year, i hear people saying things like "i have made many mistakes in trading this year." I wonder what a mistake is? a deviation from the techniques trades books describes or you can have a perfectly executed trade but its against market's movement. and that makes it a mistake?


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## Julia (22 January 2010)

Aussiest said:


> Well, put it this way: take a look at BNB and ABC Learning. You've got to work out for yourself whether you can see RIO going this way.



That's a reasonable point, Aussiest.  Pretty hard to see RIO collapsing though.

I don't hold RIO but if I did, and it was part of a two year plan, I wouldn't be selling at this stage.  That's just a personal view, not advice, yada yada.

In January 08 I sold my whole p/f.   When I began to re-enter the market, I was able to buy again some of the stocks I'd sold at a much lower price.

So that's maybe something you could consider with your RIO.

This will be an unpopular comment, but with a long term view like 2 years and a stock as substantial as RIO, I'm not sure I'd be having a set stoploss.
For a speccie stock, yes absolutely, but a discretionary approach here doesn't seem unreasonable to me.


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## skc (22 January 2010)

Julia said:


> This will be an unpopular comment, *but with a long term view like 2 years and a stock as substantial as RIO, I'm not sure I'd be having a set stoploss.*
> For a speccie stock, yes absolutely, but a discretionary approach here doesn't seem unreasonable to me.




To me stop loss is for those who trade shorter terms and on technical analysis. It really depends on what got you buying in the first place.

If you are buying RIO because you believe in sustainable demand for commodity from China, then you should sell RIO when you no longer believe such demand exist. You should not sell RIO because they price has dropped, because the price level wasn't the reason you entered the stock.

But with this approach you must 

1). Follow the stock / overall economic views closely
2). Have the ability / knowledge to interpret such news
3). Have the discipline to sell when your initial views are wrong
4). Not put all your eggs in one basket and keep appropriate position size relative to your whole portfolio


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## So_Cynical (22 January 2010)

lzen5 said:


> Last year, i hear people saying things like "i have made many mistakes in trading this year." I wonder what a mistake is? a deviation from the techniques trades books describes or you can have a perfectly executed trade but its against market's movement. and that makes it a mistake?




lzen5 why did you think around $80 was a good price to pay for RIO?


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## voigtstr (22 January 2010)

I've just had a similar discussion with my wife re RIO. My small portfolio is a mix of two types of shares.  Shares bought because they were trending over a long time and had demand from Asia for resources. And more speculative stocks (RCY, GRT, NRT are recent purchases/sales) based purely on what the chart was doing in the days leading up to the purchase.

I'd set a revised stop loss on RIO as it was trading up, and now its fallen past it, but for me at least there is still a market for what BHP and RIO are selling.

This is not financial advice, just random musings about what I'm thinking of doing, and I want to wait a few days and see if this over reaction about Obama and the banks will stop effecting our markets... Isn't it about time the Asian market was more important to us?


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## Julia (22 January 2010)

skc said:


> To me stop loss is for those who trade shorter terms and on technical analysis. It really depends on what got you buying in the first place.
> 
> If you are buying RIO because you believe in sustainable demand for commodity from China, then you should sell RIO when you no longer believe such demand exist. You should not sell RIO because they price has dropped, because the price level wasn't the reason you entered the stock.
> 
> ...




Great summary, skc.  I agree entirely.


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## lzen5 (23 January 2010)

So_Cynical said:


> lzen5 why did you think around $80 was a good price to pay for RIO?




the actual cost wasnt in my consideration. i just think that the future demand for iron ore is going to remain strong,  commodity price is going to keep going up, aussie dollar should keep going up, more interest rises, good macro-economy stats from main iron ore markets. i think its a safe bet.  I know if i dont do it now i am just never gonna do it. In Feb last year, i was in the same situation, having some spare cash, i had a choice whether to put it in the bank for 12 months or in the share market. i was thinking at the time:"hmm, i havent read enough about it yet to invest properly", and what a mistake that was. I so decided to finally take the plunge of faith now. i guess i have to start from somewhere and the economy outlook is definitely a lot better now than the same time last year. so why not. I understand i dont have the time or the energy to learn TA from scratch to estimate whether Rio at ~$80 was over-valued  or not, so I planned to hold this one for 2+ years, and as long as it beats sitting in the bank i am happy. but by the looks of it now, in the bank would  probably have been safer. 

i still believe rio is going to see its 120+ days. but i definitely was freaked out a bit after a few days of successive loss. so i decide to discuss it here to see what other people think. and more importantly its going to be something for me to see in retrospect that how my level of confidence fluctuates with the market.

its like SKC has said i amd buying for the good outlook and i hope its the right decision. but i know i dont know everything and not everything goes by the textbook. never hurt to ask.


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## So_Cynical (23 January 2010)

lzen5 said:


> the actual cost wasn't in my consideration.




Some may disagree with me (trendy's) but i think the price you pay for anything should always be an important consideration....the 1 year chart for RIO clearly indicated to me that 'around $80' was way to much to pay.

Over the last 12 months you could of brought RIO for anything from $38 to $80 and somehow you decided that it was a good idea to buy at the top of this range....there's nothing wrong with wanting a stock and believing in there story, however you choose how much you pay for that belief.


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## lzen5 (23 January 2010)

So_Cynical said:


> Some may disagree with me (trendy's) but i think the price you pay for anything should always be an important consideration....the 1 year chart for RIO clearly indicated to me that 'around $80' was way to much to pay.
> 
> Over the last 12 months you could of brought RIO for anything from $38 to $80 and somehow you decided that it was a good idea to buy at the top of this range....there's nothing wrong with wanting a stock and believing in there story, however you choose how much you pay for that belief.




do you think i have made an mistake in trading?


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## Aussiest (24 January 2010)

lzen5 said:


> do you think i have made an mistake in trading?




You may not have made a mistake in trading, but as Cynical suggested, you have probably paid too much for RIO, but who was to know the price was going to slip? It was probable that the market could have risen another couple of hundred points, in which case, your RIO would now be selling at around 90. You never can be sure.

I believe RIO will head back up to 100+ in the near future and i am sure the price will definately exceed 80 within the next two years. What's important for you now is to determine at what price you're likely to sell it (when it goes up) and under what conditions you would pull out. You'd hate to see it go to $120, then fall back to $90. Just my 

Btw, i bought some RIO @ just under 80, for the same reasons you did. Probably a bit too soon, but i perceived that the XAO could sustain a move above 4850. Boy, was i wrong. Should be interesting to see how low our RIO go before it turns back up again..


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## nulla nulla (24 January 2010)

skc said:


> Minimum block of 7 shares at $78 + $30 brokerage makes $82.3 cost per share?




Virtualy needs to make 5% (to $87 ish) before he could sell and break square. I hope you're not planning on retiring soon. goodluck


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## clayton4115 (29 January 2010)

out of curiosity is the poster still holding onto Rio

market looking very bearish looks like we could have months of falls

looking at the rio chart, we got a long way down


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## matty77 (29 January 2010)

here is a tip:

1. Dont listed to media hype, the news, or any other flashy report that 'tells you' what the stock is going to be doing, ignore it, you are here for the long haul.

2. See point 1 - you are here for a 2 year investment, that means over a period of 2 years you will want the stock to go up - what is happening on a day to day basis with this stock is irrelevant, infact even weekly is pointless. My advise is that you check the stock price a maximum of every 4 weeks. Minute by minute analysis of a stock you have already agreed to hold for 2 years is a waste of time.

3. You dont need to worry about stop loss, even if RIO went down 25% today, it would probably make that back within 2 years.... good luck.


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## waza1960 (29 January 2010)

Some Observations: If you were going to hold a stock long term a better option IMO would be to pick a high dividend stock with growth prospects.
 If you believe the china growth story and its sustainable fine but I don't. If the S--t hits the fan and their property bubble bursts the Aus dollar and Commodity stocks will probably end up near their lows.
Remember commodity stocks are more cyclical than others its hard not to think that you bought near a high anyway my


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## clayton4115 (29 January 2010)

looking at that chart its plain to see $80 is a high resistance level.


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## Liar's Poker (31 January 2010)

lzen5 said:


> have been paying attention to the market for a while, *havent read any books or anything, dont really know a thing about how the stock market works, finally decided to take the plunge today. bought some rio tinto for 80-something. just gonna leave it there for a year or two. hope I have made the right chioce*.




After dropping approximately 14% in less than a month on your first trade, the worst thing you can do now is ignore your mistakes. I've quoted your mistake above so you don't have to spend any time looking for where it all went wrong.

Research, reasearch, research...

As they say, _"a wise man learns from his mistakes"_ (and for other first time traders, _"a wiser man learns from others mistakes_").


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## Julia (31 January 2010)

Liar's Poker said:


> After dropping approximately 14% in less than a month on your first trade, the worst thing you can do now is ignore your mistakes. I've quoted your mistake above so you don't have to spend any time looking for where it all went wrong.
> 
> Research, reasearch, research...
> 
> As they say, _"a wise man learns from his mistakes"_ (and for other first time traders, _"a wiser man learns from others mistakes_").



Just to be clear here, are you suggesting that Izen should sell his RIO shares?


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## Mr J (31 January 2010)

Julia said:


> Just to be clear here, are you suggesting that Izen should sell his RIO shares?




The only suggestion seems to be to do some work before taking action. I'd suggest close the RIO trade though, because we should not be in a trade if we have no informed opinion.


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## surfingman (31 January 2010)

When it comes down to it there is around $500 on the line here, you will pay more a very poor quality course.

I believe that the best way to learn is to do, by buying and watching and learning I think that is $500 very well spent if it was $5,000 it would be a totally different discussion.

A friend from work recently decided he wanted to start buying some shares I recommend exactly that spend $500 and start to learn he bought UNS and has watched it bounce around for the past couple of weeks while reading up on other stocks and asking opinions from others.


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## nunthewiser (31 January 2010)

would be watching for a technical bounce around right about here ....... re RIO .........nice low%loss on stoploss points if one was to consider a long trade entry....... 

Could be wrong but it does provide a nice low risk/reward trade at this level and prime for a support bounce.

Will be watching for a doozy of a short entry if we break these levels tho.

Only my view from here.


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## skc (1 February 2010)

skc said:


> Minimum block of 7 shares at $78 + $30 brokerage makes $82.3 cost per share?






lzen5 said:


> hehe you are right, it was 78, didnt really pay attention to how much , just thought:"hey, i might buy some stock today."....






skc said:


> You have already made $2!
> 
> I will pray that BHP have a second tilt on RIO for you.




For those who want to contribute to this thread... so context.

There is no confirmation one way or the other about the position size. $500 was only my speculation on how he could have bought RIO at $80 a share while it never traded at $80. For all we know he could have between $1 to $1B on RIO...


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## sommi (1 February 2010)

You should probably consider some economic fundamentals. Sustained demand from China is a big bet. Are you sure we are going to get the boom like we did in 2003-2004? Post-GFC, I wouldn't think so.

Honestly if I were you, Rio's price movement over the next 6 months is a big gamble. Rising interest rates in Australia would tell investors that 'we are okay to move along now' but I'm not so sure the rest of the world is convinced. 

Have a think about it.


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## Julia (1 February 2010)

Mr J said:


> The only suggestion seems to be to do some work before taking action. I'd suggest close the RIO trade though, because we should not be in a trade if we have no informed opinion.






Liar's Poker said:


> After dropping approximately 14% in less than a month on your first trade, the worst thing you can do now is ignore your mistakes.




Good of you to interpret Liar's Poker's post, Mr J.
I'd still like to hear Liar's answer to my question about whether he is suggesting the OP should sell the shares at this stage.

Re your suggesting he close the trade on the basis that he has no informed opinion, you may be being a bit unfair.  His earlier comments suggested he believed there would be strong ongoing demand from China, a view that probably few would disagree with.
He has a *two year time frame.*

If he sells now and crystallises the loss, how is he going to feel if the stock rallies in a month or so and goes well beyond his purchase price?


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## skc (1 February 2010)

Julia said:


> If he sells now and crystallises the loss, how is he going to feel if the stock rallies in a month or so and goes well beyond his purchase price?




The exact opposite to how he's going to feel if the share fall another 20%! Surely this feeling is not the reason to buy, hold or sell?

Logic suggests there are only few options:
1. Do nothing
2. Sell and forget this ever happened
3. Hold for now, do some research, and make informed decision
4. Sell now, do some research, and make informed decision
5. Buy more

Just pick one...


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## So_Cynical (1 February 2010)

skc said:


> Logic suggests there are only few options:
> 1. Do nothing
> 2. Sell and forget this ever happened
> 3. Hold for now, do some research, and make informed decision
> ...




5. Buy more


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## kgee (2 February 2010)

So_Cynical said:


> 5. Buy more




Is this discussion still about first ever trade?

Take the hit, step back and try and get a picture of what happenned.


Everyone gets it wrong  sometimes, and people who try to sell advice are probably trying to sell themselves advice (me included)

so in that vain look for the opportunities but be cynical of anyone selling them to you
(did i just quote yoda???)lol

And yes it can be ruthless


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## Liar's Poker (16 February 2010)

Julia said:


> Good of you to interpret Liar's Poker's post, Mr J.
> I'd still like to hear Liar's answer to my question about whether he is suggesting the OP should sell the shares at this stage.
> 
> Re your suggesting he close the trade on the basis that he has no informed opinion, you may be being a bit unfair.  His earlier comments suggested he believed there would be strong ongoing demand from China, a view that probably few would disagree with.
> ...




Sorry for the late reply Julia, I have only just got my head above water at work again. 

Mr J has interpreted my post correctly - I can see how it could have been misunderstood, my fault.

After paper trading for many years, I started trading in $1000 lots. After taking brokerage into account, I had to make 5% just to break even. It was a pointless amount really, but it let me get my feet wet without risking a large amount of capital. Even if I took a 20% hit, it was only $200. Granted, it was always annoying when I did well, as it barely covered my Saturday night out. I did this for years and the lessons I learnt from my mistakes have made me a far better trader today. I always found I was more diligent researching a mistake than I was with a success. 

I did okay through those years. Even if I hadn’t, the losses could have been justified due to how much I had learnt and matured as a trader. I'm glad I didn’t stop after taking my first hit. Hence my first post (and its intention) to the original poster, of how important it is to learn from his/her mistakes and when comfortable, try again.

You only touch an electric fence once.


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## newbie trader (16 February 2010)

'Liar' your last post rings so true. I'm 18 and i recently bought a stock (my first trade) after about 3yrs of reading, watching and paper trading the market. The stock is somewhat down at the moment (somewhat being an understatement) and from a loss (even though i havnt exited my position) you learn so many things about all facets of the trading world (i.e why a stock rises and why it then falls). I just loved that post :.

N.T


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## Mr J (17 February 2010)

Julia said:


> Re your suggesting he close the trade on the basis that he has no informed opinion, you may be being a bit unfair.  His earlier comments suggested he believed there would be strong ongoing demand from China, a view that probably few would disagree with.
> He has a *two year time frame.*
> 
> If he sells now and crystallises the loss, how is he going to feel if the stock rallies in a month or so and goes well beyond his purchase price?




How many people think resources in general are a good buy due to demand from China? Many, and it's not usually an informed opinion, it's recycled garbage from the media.

I do not think he has an informed opinion. When he first posted, he said he knew little about the markets, and bought it simply because he felt like buying some stock. He later suggests that he did have a bit of a plan, but is not sticking to it, and holding on convinced that the market will start listening to him. Just re-reading his posts, I think he has said all the wrong things.

I'm up to the part where he asks if he made a trading mistake, and Aussiest says no. I completely disagree, he's made a number of mistakes:

1. Unclear strategy.
2. Ignoring stop-loss.
3. Holding, convinced the market will show him to be right.
4. Ignoring original price.
5. No idea what to do ("the book says sell, what should I do" etc).

And that's only the ones I remembered to point out. He clearly isn't ready to have money in the market.

Yes, if he sells now it is a loss, but he can always re-enter. How would he feel if it rallies? It shouldn't matter, though it probably would.


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## Julia (17 February 2010)

Mr J said:


> Yes, if he sells now it is a loss, but he can always re-enter. How would he feel if it rallies? It shouldn't matter, though it probably would.



I don't disagree with anything you've said.

It's reasonable (and easy) to criticise the OP for jumping in to Rio at $80 or whatever it was.  But haven't you ever - when inexperienced in any field - moved without a clearly thought out plan?


I'm not one of them, but many people would regard RIO as a long term good investment, even at $80.   They will decide they want to own shares in a given company and just buy them, with no understanding of price movements.

What I've quoted from your post above is essentially what I was getting at.
Only my own experience, but I've exited substantial, well run companies after a fall of X%, only to see them run up exponentially soon after.
I'm just attempting to make the case for a discretionary approach with a quality company, not disputing at all the need for disciplined money management.


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## Mr J (17 February 2010)

Julia said:
			
		

> It's reasonable (and easy) to criticise the OP for jumping in to Rio at $80 or whatever it was. But haven't you ever - when inexperienced in any field - moved without a clearly thought out plan?




I'm not criticising the poster, but the overall approach.



> Only my own experience, but I've exited substantial, well run companies after a fall of X%, only to see them run up exponentially soon after.




Are you wishing you held, and do you think it was the right action? Did you have a plan to re-enter? Did you make a mistake when calculating the exit? The stop loss is meant to be the point at which we're no longer willing to be in the trade. If we want to stay in, we want our reason to be the right one. If we stand by our reason to exit but the stock goes up, well that's part of the game.


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## Julia (17 February 2010)

Mr J said:


> I'm not criticising the poster, but the overall approach.



I realise that.  I was simply making a general comment.


> Are you wishing you held, and do you think it was the right action? Did you have a plan to re-enter? Did you make a mistake when calculating the exit? The stop loss is meant to be the point at which we're no longer willing to be in the trade. If we want to stay in, we want our reason to be the right one. If we stand by our reason to exit but the stock goes up, well that's part of the game.



Oh dear, I'm not sure I can be bothered nitpicking the details.
We are probably coming from different viewpoints.
I'm talking about solid stocks which I'd intend to hold for more than a year, barring any radical fundamental change in the fortunes of the company.

LEI is a recent example.  They reported a few days ago and the result, while very good, was slightly less than had been talked up by analysts, so the stock fell with a bang.  Their forward outlook, however, is excellent.
So if I'd just been following the price action I'd have sold.  But given the outlook for the company's near and future profits, and the quality of their management,  I wouldn't sell.

So I didn't.  And the stock has already recovered most of the loss.

So this is what I'm talking about when I question the automatic selling of a stock at a given price level.

You say 







> f we stand by our reason to exit but the stock goes up, well that's part of the game.



With respect, I think that's less than sensible as an irrevocable rule.   You may feel vindicated about sticking to some plan, but it isn't always going to be what makes you the most money.


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## Mr J (18 February 2010)

Julia said:


> With respect, I think that's less than sensible as an irrevocable rule.   You may feel vindicated about sticking to some plan, but it isn't always going to be what makes you the most money.




This isn't about sticking to a plan, it's about second guessing a trade based on hindsight. If price shoots up after I exit and I know I couldn't have taken advantage of it, I don't let it worry me. We can't capture every move, and missing one doesn't make our exit bad.

By the way, if you decide to hold on past your original stop, what is the point of that stop, and why was it placed there and not further?


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## rabbit59 (18 February 2010)

Mr J said:


> This isn't about sticking to a plan, it's about second guessing a trade based on hindsight. If price shoots up after I exit and I know I couldn't have taken advantage of it, I don't let it worry me. We can't capture every move, and missing one doesn't make our exit bad.
> 
> By the way, if you decide to hold on past your original stop, what is the point of that stop, and why was it placed there and not further?




Correct, completely agreed Mr J, its about being able to say - 'I believe this is the best possible scenario and the best buy/sell available to me, that i am willing to get' its about backing yourself, you have to become (if this is a word) UN-emotionally attached, and be able to look beyond your feelings towards that stock or option, and LOGICALLY/INTELLIGENTLY make a decision based on facts....

very hard to explain but many people will be able to explain alot better than I 

only put in what you can afford to lose.... tread carefully...


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