# Buying gold



## bluekelah (27 February 2020)

Hi looking to buy physical gold in Brisbane. Which is the best dealer to buy 10oz cast bars from? I checked out brisbanebullion which sells for QLD mint but the price is much more than perthmint price.


----------



## qldfrog (27 February 2020)

bluekelah said:


> Hi looking to buy physical gold in Brisbane. Which is the best dealer to buy 10oz cast bars from? I checked out brisbanebullion which sells for QLD mint but the price is much more than perthmint price.



hi Bluekelah, have you tried Ainslie, located in CBD
https://www.ainsliebullion.com.au/
Keep us informed on who you choose and if happy.
Disclaimer: I have used Ainslie and found them OK


----------



## bluekelah (27 February 2020)

qldfrog said:


> hi Bluekelah, have you tried Ainslie, located in CBD
> https://www.ainsliebullion.com.au/
> Keep us informed on who you choose and if happy.
> Disclaimer: I have used Ainslie and found them OK



not yet first time buying. Might just go down there tomorrow morning as its a bit late now. Gold prices going up up up though. probably up 2 or 3% by tomorrow morning lol..

Having a look online now, apparently i can secure purchase with 10% deposit. Their prices quite good and will work out cheaper than buying from perthmint and postage/insurance added


----------



## qldfrog (27 February 2020)

bluekelah said:


> not yet first time buying. Might just go down there tomorrow morning as its a bit late now. Gold prices going up up up though. probably up 2 or 3% by tomorrow morning lol..
> 
> Having a look online now, apparently i can secure purchase with 10% deposit. Their prices quite good and will work out cheaper than buying from perthmint and postage/insurance added



It is a bit of an adventure to purchase: 
double door locks etc, entry to the Fort feeling..unique...
nice to go back in time and remember non digital currency  
Yes you order and lock the quasi real time price with a deposit[ credit card ]then pay reminder with direct credit etc and once paid, go and get the good from their office in the CBD
I remember having had some issues once with my firefox browser during the web  payment process...
I recommend you use another broser even if it is probably long well fixed


----------



## bluekelah (27 February 2020)

qldfrog said:


> It is a bit of an adventure to purchase:
> double door locks etc, entry to the Fort feeling..unique...
> nice to go back in time and remember non digital currency
> Yes you order and lock the quasi real time price with a deposit[ credit card ]then pay reminder with direct credit etc and once paid, go and get the good from their office in the CBD
> ...




yeah i changed to opera a no problems, verified now and just shopping around. But the quasi price keeps dropping. not sure what is happening to spot price but seems its going down in the evening, maybe AUD firming up after Scomo announced prep measures for pandemic and restore some confidence versus other nations who are just brushing it aside as another flu.

thanks for the advice. the ainsle bullion facebook help person called steve was pretty nice too with fast reply time despite office already closed. So they do have some after hours service so long the guys are still awake.

Price wise Ainsle is more expensive than perth mint, but only by slightly less than $100 bucks for a 10oz cast bar which makes it cheaper than buying from perthmint and delivery+insurance of 1%. 

Thinking of doing 5 2oz bars so in case price goes up and i wanna sell I can sell part of it, but probably will go with one 10oz bar as its easier to keep and when the time comes and stocks have bottomed and gold peaked can always sell and switch back into shares.


----------



## Bill M (27 February 2020)

I agree with qldfrog about Ainslie. Very good bullion dealer and can post Australia wide.

I'd also like to mention that a 10 oz gold bar will set you back about $26,000. To resell at spot it will be hard to do with a bullion dealer, even the one you buy from. They generally will pay 10% below spot. My opinion is to go for 1 oz 9999 gold coins as they are much easier to sell, ie. it's easier for a buyer to cough up $2,600 rather than $26,000. Plus you can sell it for spot or better on places like ebay or other private forums.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do, cheers.


----------



## qldfrog (27 February 2020)

Bill M said:


> I agree with qldfrog about Ainslie. Very good bullion dealer and can post Australia wide.
> 
> I'd also like to mention that a 10 oz gold bar will set you back about $26,000. To resell at spot it will be hard to do with a bullion dealer, even the one you buy from. They generally will pay 10% below spot. My opinion is to go for 1 oz 9999 gold coins as they are much easier to sell, ie. it's easier for a buyer to cough up $2,600 rather than $26,000. Plus you can sell it for spot or better on places like ebay or other private forums.
> 
> Good luck with whatever you choose to do, cheers.



I would agree with the 1oz, wrapped perthmint being a favorite
Do not worry, while heavy 5 or 10 of these is quite small and much easier to resell


----------



## Zaxon (28 February 2020)

Bill M said:


> To resell at spot it will be hard to do with a bullion dealer, even the one you buy from. They generally will pay 10% below spot.



That's why I'm surprised people buy physical gold instead of a gold ETF.  Physical gold has (potentially) storage costs and large buy/sell margins.  It won't cost you 10% to sell an ETF. 

But if you believe that "society" will break down, and you'll need to retire to your cabin in the woods with your shotgun and your prepper supplies, of course you'll want your physical gold then


----------



## qldfrog (28 February 2020)

Zaxon said:


> That's why I'm surprised people buy physical gold instead of a gold ETF.  Physical gold has (potentially) storage costs and large buy/sell margins.  It won't cost you 10% to sell an ETF.
> 
> But if you believe that "society" will break down, and you'll need to retire to your cabin in the woods with your shotgun and your prepper supplies, of course you'll want your physical gold then



It is well know that most ETFs do not have the Gold they are supposed to represent, i trust relatively PMGOLD etf as i believe it is truly matched 1 to 1 with physical gold asset


----------



## Zaxon (28 February 2020)

qldfrog said:


> It is well know that most ETFs do not have the Gold they are supposed to represent



I've heard that assertion before, although I've no idea whether it's true.  Some gold ETFs have the option to convert your holdings into physical metal.  I'm guessing very few people actually do.  If there were so inclined, they'd probably just buy bullion upfront.


----------



## qldfrog (28 February 2020)

Zaxon said:


> I've heard that assertion before, although I've no idea whether it's true.  Some gold ETFs have the option to convert your holdings into physical metal.  I'm guessing very few people actually do.  If there were so inclined, they'd probably just buy bullion upfront.



Pmgold does, but i i fe better owning the paper selling buying on the market within sec without having to courrier gold from perth mint
But etf like US GOLD have leverage above 20, they sell up to 20 bullions for each one they owe..all good as long as no real crisis


----------



## kenny (29 February 2020)

Is owning a gold ETF as effective as physical gold as a portfolio hedge? I like that PMGOLD is backed by Perth mint and thus the WA government by default. 
https://www.perthmint.com/storage/perth-mint-gold-asx.html


----------



## Zaxon (29 February 2020)

kenny said:


> Is owning a gold ETF as effective as physical gold as a portfolio hedge? I like that PMGOLD is backed by Perth mint and thus the WA government by default.
> https://www.perthmint.com/storage/perth-mint-gold-asx.html



It should be.  A gold ETF tracks the spot price of gold (or probably gold futures really).  Physical gold is valued at the daily spot price, minus whatever spread the gold trader wants to charge you, I would expect.


----------



## bluekelah (1 March 2020)

Bill M said:


> I agree with qldfrog about Ainslie. Very good bullion dealer and can post Australia wide.
> 
> I'd also like to mention that a 10 oz gold bar will set you back about $26,000. To resell at spot it will be hard to do with a bullion dealer, even the one you buy from. They generally will pay 10% below spot. My opinion is to go for 1 oz 9999 gold coins as they are much easier to sell, ie. it's easier for a buyer to cough up $2,600 rather than $26,000. Plus you can sell it for spot or better on places like ebay or other private forums.
> 
> Good luck with whatever you choose to do, cheers.




thanks for all the advice guys but unfortunately i read this too late and like an idiot noob had already gone ahead thursday night and locked in my gold bar at Ainslie as i saw prices were going down a bit. I guess i will have to find some other way to get a closer price to spot for my 10oz cast bar. Hopefully if there is a bull run on gold and lack of stock from a supply shock or something, the prices offered will be closer to spot in the future, well maybe not, u tell me guys. lol..

Gold has adjusted down as well possibly due to liquidations to pay for margin calls but at least its not dropping as badly as other commodities and stocks. I think short term USD appreciation as safe haven also has an effect on gold price going down. But now USA has first COVID19 death and probably widespread cases will be annouced next week causing more panic risk-off sentiment as it hits closer to home for them. US index futures are up 1%+ but I suspect fear will get the better of markets and another big crash by monday night as more cases reported in USA. China's PMI number 35.7 after markets closed was shocking as well, so ASX an AUD likely get hit again next week.

I have about 10k more to spend so might look into a few gold coins as well. will PM u Bill M about getting the best deal for coins.

In any case, not too concerned as I still feel having a 10oz bar at home is better than bloody 25k sitting in the bank earning very paltry interest by next month. Its an insurance policy really against AUD crashing really which i think is gonna happen when our rates go to zero and recession hits and unemployment goes to the 8% or even 10% range. By then probably everyone will be wanting to buy gold, just like facemasks and hand sanitizers.


----------



## frugal.rock (1 March 2020)

Here's a view of 2 ATF's
and the gold indicie XGD, all
compared to the XJO, the only common indicator in this app...
Trying to upload screen grabs but getting error message?
Grr, got logged out...


----------



## bluekelah (1 March 2020)

frugal.rock said:


> Here's a view of 2 ATF's
> and the gold indicie XGD, all
> compared to the XJO, the only common indicator in this app...
> Trying to upload screen grabs but getting error message?
> ...




thanks for the graphs, viewable when i click on it. i expect gold to outperform the stocks during panic selling, even if it drops will not drop as badly as stock indexes. But the last graph for XJD shows a big drop for gold whilst the first three graphs just shows gold holding stable?


----------



## finicky (1 March 2020)

Yeah you don't have to go through a dealer with their margins, you can consider buying gold peer to peer  through the silverstackers website: https://www.silverstackers.com/forums/index.php?forums/australia-new-zealand-public.30/


----------



## noirua (2 March 2020)

I hold some gold through 'Tally'. It is a Mastercard 'loadable' debit card that can be used as such or gold can be just, I suppose, be loaded on to it by adding cash. Very new and yet to be properly rolled out beyond the UK though that doesn't mean having to be located there if you generally think more Internationally - it can be used in almost all countries except China. It's real location is in India and Finland where it has considerable interest in a gold producing mine in India and project in Finland. Not too clear as yet but gold from these mines should, in theory if all goes well, add to the gold backing of the card itself and profits of Tally Limited formerly Lionsgold.
https://www.tallymoney.com/
https://www.proactiveinvestors.co.u...ng-launch-of-gold-linked-currency-222788.html
Https://community.tallymoney.com/
https://www.fintechfutures.com/2020/01/tally-launches-2-0-version-of-uk-faster-payments-linked-app/

Posted to show there are many ways of holding gold and of course debit cards are a quick way to sell if we need to. Sometimes referred to as Key-cards. American's tend to use the term 'swiped cards' that cover all.


----------



## bluekelah (2 March 2020)

noirua said:


> I hold some gold through 'Tally'. It is a Mastercard 'loadable' debit card that can be used as such or gold can be just, I suppose, be loaded on to it by adding cash. Very new and yet to be properly rolled out beyond the UK though that doesn't mean having to be located there if you generally think more Internationally - it can be used in almost all countries except China. It's real location is in India and Finland where it has considerable interest in a gold producing mine in India and project in Finland. Not too clear as yet but gold from these mines should, in theory if all goes well, add to the gold backing of the card itself and profits of Tally Limited formerly Lionsgold.
> https://www.tallymoney.com/
> https://www.proactiveinvestors.co.u...ng-launch-of-gold-linked-currency-222788.html
> Https://community.tallymoney.com/
> ...




Thing is for gold its always better if you have the physical product, or at least you have it stored for you in a big vault somewhere. It's insurance. With a card like tally its pretty dodgy as the gold is not allocated.


----------



## noirua (3 March 2020)

bluekelah said:


> Thing is for gold its always better if you have the physical product, or at least you have it stored for you in a big vault somewhere. It's insurance. With a card like tally its pretty dodgy as the gold is not allocated.




Your asset is 100% owned by you, insured and protected.

Tally runs on established and reliable banking infrastructure, and uses London Bullion Market Association (LBMA) approved physical gold held in an accredited, secure vault in Switzerland. Your gold is 100% owned by you, insured and protected. Your asset is ring-fenced from third parties so it stays protected.


----------



## bluekelah (4 March 2020)

noirua said:


> Your asset is 100% owned by you, insured and protected.
> 
> Tally runs on established and reliable banking infrastructure, and uses London Bullion Market Association (LBMA) approved physical gold held in an accredited, secure vault in Switzerland. Your gold is 100% owned by you, insured and protected. Your asset is ring-fenced from third parties so it stays protected.




Exactly, you dont really own the gold. Its linked to whatever gold Tally has. This is called unallocated storage. Much like gold linked ETFs, the ETF owns the gold and it appears on the balance sheet of the fund. Just like Tally, their total gold will have to be declared on the balance sheet.

Allocated gold is directly owned by you, even if stored in a vault.

have a read of this, there is a big difference. 
https://www.vault268.com.sg/news/allocated-vs-unallocated-storage/

I buy gold for insurance hence owning the physical product within reach at home is critical!


----------



## qldfrog (4 March 2020)

bluekelah said:


> I buy gold for insurance hence owning the physical product within reach at home is critical!



Fully agree then you can speculate aka trade on pog and then using etf is the way to go, or even gold miners


----------



## bluekelah (5 March 2020)

qldfrog said:


> Fully agree then you can speculate aka trade on pog and then using etf is the way to go, or even gold miners



Unfortunately i bought 25k worth of regis resources as well the other day at 4.55. not so much to trade but rather to keep longer term for dividends and exposure to gold.  down below 4 but closed at 4 today so i am still down ten percent plus. But hopeful they can get past their new mine delays and when price of gold hits 2000usd it should perform well.


----------



## qldfrog (5 March 2020)

bluekelah said:


> Unfortunately i bought 25k worth of regis resources as well the other day at 4.55. not so much to trade but rather to keep longer term for dividends and exposure to gold.  down below 4 but closed at 4 today so i am still down ten percent plus. But hopeful they can get past their new mine delays and when price of gold hits 2000usd it should perform well.



I used the term speculate...
You will be ok in a month


----------



## frugal.rock (5 March 2020)

Good luck with Regis.
Unless you have also put 25k onto;
GOR, SLR, FMG, BHP etc sounds like you are taking a larger risk than needed? Eggs in one basket?
Trader's state around 2% of the capital should be the max capital per trade, per risk management.
If you haven't considered that things can go bad, ie, risk, you might want to.

F.Rock


----------



## bluekelah (5 March 2020)

frugal.rock said:


> Good luck with Regis.
> Unless you have also put 25k onto;
> GOR, SLR, FMG, BHP etc sounds like you are taking a larger risk than needed? Eggs in one basket?
> Trader's state around 2% of the capital should be the max capital per trade, per risk management.
> ...



thank you for yourkind advice, but BHP and FMG are more iron ore and diversified miners not gold pure plays. GOR still loss making no dividends. SLR though profitable but no dividends either and has a PE of 24+. Regis Resources is a mature player, pays steady dividend of ~3.5% at my entry price and has proven gold reserves. Their PE was only 13 when I entered and price down from highs of $5++ due to delays in a new mine opening which i think will work out in time to come and will work as a catalyst to the upside. This makes it a laggard really and laggards are generally good buys if the reason making them a laggard is a temporary one and market sentiment towards the stock bad because of that.

If i wanted diversification i would have just bought an ETF tracking gold miners.

I am not new to stocks or portfolio management and I am not a trader. I will be holding Regis for at least 5 to 10 years.

qldfrog : I must admit I bought RRL without doing too much homework but just wanted to get some gold exposure before my physical gold came in and other options didnt seem that attractive.  now i have 50k gold exposure i am happy, just wanted to get my feet wet 

I will increase more physical gold as I am happy with Ainslie and Bill M has pointed me in the right direction regarding purchasing smaller denomination gold coins. I initially wanted to buy those but the price premium was way way above the cast bars. but apparently that premium can be less by shopping around. And Ainslie has created their own gold backed crypto lol! My wife was like how come they do bitcoin stuff and gold dealer at same time? G


----------

