# FIG - Freedom Insurance Group



## System (14 November 2016)

Freedom Insurance Group designs, distributes and administers life insurance products that are issued by Australian Prudential Regulation Authority (APRA) regulated life insurers. 

It is anticipated that FIG will list on the ASX during December 2016.

https://www.freedominsurance.com.au


----------



## JTLP (23 June 2017)

Is anyone on this? Steady uptrend, a pretty upbeat market release. I like these sorts of products, very consistent and something people do maintain through financial hardship / downturns.


----------



## Klogg (23 June 2017)

JTLP said:


> Is anyone on this? Steady uptrend, a pretty upbeat market release. I like these sorts of products, very consistent and something people do maintain through financial hardship / downturns.




The boat fund have owned this for a while and wrote up a decent amount on it in various reports.

Can sign up for their reports here if you want:
http://tbfinvest.com.au/fund-reports/

Disclosure - I don't know them, invest with them, and have never spoken to them. I just read their reports for ideas


----------



## skc (25 June 2017)

JTLP said:


> Is anyone on this? Steady uptrend, a pretty upbeat market release. I like these sorts of products, very consistent and something people do maintain through financial hardship / downturns.




Yes I have looked at them and traded their news several times. It's certainly in a strong growth phase and enjoying quite a lot of momentum (both share price and operationally speaking).

However, with a stock like this I think you need to think of the future and discount it back... What does steady state look like down the track? How big can it grow to before the market stop pricing in the growth? Make that judgement, discount it back to the current share price and see if you can actually still make money out of it. Sometimes you will find the market price in so much growth that, even when the growth does eventuate, there is no room for further share price appreciation.

This may or may not be the case for FIG.


----------



## VSntchr (26 June 2017)

skc said:


> Yes I have looked at them and traded their news several times. It's certainly in a strong growth phase and enjoying quite a lot of momentum (both share price and operationally speaking).
> 
> However, with a stock like this I think you need to think of the future and discount it back... What does steady state look like down the track? How big can it grow to before the market stop pricing in the growth? Make that judgement, discount it back to the current share price and see if you can actually still make money out of it. Sometimes you will find the market price in so much growth that, even when the growth does eventuate, there is no room for further share price appreciation.
> 
> This may or may not be the case for FIG.



Completely agree with SKC on FIG. 

It's one of the rare small caps which has been trading like the whole small end of the market was about 12 months ago. So you don't need to do much digging to see what some of these hyped up growth stocks can look like when sentiment towards them turns south - even if the underlying performance of the business is still ticking along fine, sometimes expectations can just run way too hot.


----------



## JTLP (26 June 2017)

Thanks SKC and VSntchr. Appreciate the replies and will do as suggested. Would be rare to continue these strong growth numbers, but the insurance sector is always attractive (provided they get the mix right).


----------



## greggles (3 November 2017)

FIG down around 30% this morning after releasing a disappointing Business Update.


----------



## JTLP (3 November 2017)

Something about the quality of leads not being great I believe? There’s that mix.


----------



## So_Cynical (3 September 2018)

FIG was looking cheap last Wednesday and got cheaper on Thursday and then got hammered on Friday, The banking RC is going to have a look at them or the company they are buying, St Andrews Insurance, its a bit of a mystery and so the market is pricing it as an unknown negative.

FOR - Forager Aust Shares Fund holds a large position in FIG thus the FOR SP is also taking a hit, some deep value i think.


----------



## Knobby22 (3 September 2018)

So_Cynical said:


> FIG was looking cheap last Wednesday and got cheaper on Thursday and then got hammered on Friday, The banking RC is going to have a look at them or the company they are buying, St Andrews Insurance, its a bit of a mystery and so the market is pricing it as an unknown negative.
> 
> FOR - Forager Aust Shares Fund holds a large position in FIG thus the FOR SP is also taking a hit, some deep value i think.




Interesting.


----------



## Miner (19 September 2018)

folks
What is really happening with FIG? it went down again. Annual result was reasonable even the Net Profit was down only by a single digit. That definitely does not justify the fall. Interested to know from posters.
Ironically none of the shares like CBA or ANZ got hammered like this after Royal Commission. Yes, Healthcare agencies did hammer out but why Freedom Insurance?
Annual result attached - a bit dated but not so old.


----------



## galumay (19 September 2018)

I suspect the view of the market is that FIG will likely face punitive penalties and also lose a significant part of their customer base. Unlike the banks, where most people will remain customers despite the criminality, with insurers like FIG, they will lose clients in droves.

I suspect its not got to the bottom yet!


----------



## Miner (19 September 2018)

galumay said:


> I suspect the view of the market is that FIG will likely face punitive penalties and also lose a significant part of their customer base. Unlike the banks, where most people will remain customers despite the criminality, with insurers like FIG, they will lose clients in droves.
> 
> I suspect its not got to the bottom yet!



Gees. I thought today's price hit the bottm
Will watch carefully with scuba dive set .
Thanks mate.


----------



## galumay (19 September 2018)

It may have, I dont follow FIG and havent done any research. I was more thinking aloud in response to your question and reflecting the 'noise' I have been hearing about FIG.


----------



## Miner (19 September 2018)

galumay said:


> It may have, I dont follow FIG and havent done any research. I was more thinking aloud in response to your question and reflecting the 'noise' I have been hearing about FIG.



Ha ha. Dont worry. It is all that  we understand. May be So Cynical tell the bottom level of his tipping  ( sorry SC for the pun)


----------



## So_Cynical (19 September 2018)

Under 10c today was a surprise, i figured all the sellers were done, the insurance lines that they have decided to stop selling were only 15% of their revenue anyway so i just cant see how this further fall is in anyway justified, the SP punishment is way way over done.

The worst the RC did to FIG was expose that they sold life insurance to a young man with down syndrome, its all way over done, hardly measures up to selling life insurance to dead people as AMP did.


----------



## Miner (20 September 2018)

So_Cynical said:


> Under 10c today was a surprise, i figured all the sellers were done, the insurance lines that they have decided to stop selling were only 15% of their revenue anyway so i just cant see how this further fall is in anyway justified, the SP punishment is way way over done.
> 
> The worst the RC did to FIG was expose that they sold life insurance to a young man with down syndrome, its all way over done, hardly measures up to selling life insurance to dead people as AMP did.



thanks, SC and Galumay
Your thoughts are often based on factual calculations and important for me to be sounding boards.


----------



## Miner (21 September 2018)

today's ASX report says about 32 million shares are released from escrow by Mr Keith Cohen.
One thing I did not understand when the report says change of substantial shareholders holding. I read the shareholding was reduced from Freedom Insurance Group to Freedom Insurance Group - did not understand the transfer from same names to same names could be a real material transaction.


----------



## So_Cynical (21 September 2018)

I also found that announcement confusing, i suppose because the shares have come out of escrow and can now be sold, thus a change in substantial holding - i note that Forager funds has not been selling - or averaging down, FOR owns about 11% not sure what to make of that?


----------



## Miner (21 September 2018)

So_Cynical said:


> I also found that announcement confusing, i suppose because the shares have come out of escrow and can now be sold, thus a change in substantial holding - i note that Forager funds has not been selling - or averaging down, FOR owns about 11% not sure what to make of that?



Yes SC
What you said is a logical conclusion.
But the fact remains that more than 3 million shares are now liquid 
If they or mr Cohen sells them means desperate sales by people who know more.


----------



## So_Cynical (21 September 2018)

Miner said:


> Yes SC
> What you said is a logical conclusion.
> But the fact remains that more than 3 million shares are now liquid
> If they or mr Cohen sells them means desperate sales by people who know more.




Sure if they dump its going to zero, and that would be crazy....people are funny though.


----------



## Miner (2 October 2018)

So_Cynical said:


> I also found that announcement confusing, i suppose because the shares have come out of escrow and can now be sold, thus a change in substantial holding - i note that Forager funds has not been selling - or averaging down, FOR owns about 11% not sure what to make of that?



SC et. al
The announcement is no more confusing with the ASX announcement and the rising price for couple of days back and trading halt outcome.
The MD and top guns are leaving and they have already unloaded their shares foreseeing them to stop any blockage by the company.
Obviously good for the holders as it is more than 90% probability that FIG shares will rise great on Wednesday market opening.
https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20181002/pdf/43yx57n0y59xvh.pdf


----------



## JTLP (2 October 2018)

Miner said:


> SC et. al
> The announcement is no more confusing with the ASX announcement and the rising price for couple of days back and trading halt outcome.
> The MD and top guns are leaving and they have already unloaded their shares foreseeing them to stop any blockage by the company.
> Obviously good for the holders as it is more than 90% probability that FIG shares will rise great on Wednesday market opening.
> https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20181002/pdf/43yx57n0y59xvh.pdf




It sounds bad. Strategic review? The write up in the paper was horrible. Good luck yo holders


----------



## So_Cynical (2 October 2018)

Miner said:


> Obviously good for the holders as it is more than 90% probability that FIG shares will rise great on Wednesday market opening.
> https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20181002/pdf/43yx57n0y59xvh.pdf




Its a negative announcement, hard to see it any other way, Freedom sells direct insurance and the ann says " Immediate suspension of new business sales of *all direct *insurance products." the direct channel is the smallest sales channel, but its what freedom was built on.

A complete change in their sales channel will be very difficult, they should just tell ASIC to go f*** themselves and just keep going with direct, just do it better than before.


----------



## Miner (3 October 2018)

So_Cynical said:


> Its a negative announcement, hard to see it any other way, Freedom sells direct insurance and the ann says " Immediate suspension of new business sales of *all direct *insurance products." the direct channel is the smallest sales channel, but its what freedom was built on.
> 
> A complete change in their sales channel will be very difficult, they should just tell ASIC to go f*** themselves and just keep going with direct, just do it better than before.



JTLP and SC
You duo were on the money.
I could see how I misread the announcement of FIG and your interpretation right on the spot reflected today by market.
There is a clarification from the company but sentiment is not going to change.
Thankfully I did not gamble this time.
On the lighter side, I could not understand how could SC tipped again FIG this month (I missed).
would watch how his tip travelling 
On a serious note thanks to both of you for the help to read the announcement correctly.


----------



## So_Cynical (4 October 2018)

On the glass half full side of the equation, freedom has no choice now other than to peruse sales via other channels, if they can sign up a super fund or 3 that would be a massive turnaround and they wont need as many staff cos no phone centre is needed to drive sales.

Insurance is a MASSIVE industry, as a junior they can be more inventive, have to be innovative now.

Miner - i tipped FIG in the comp this month thinking they would bounce off the 8c low, the start of the month timing didn't work out for me as they bounced to early.


----------



## Knobby22 (4 October 2018)

Well there will be write offs and the insurance industry is a competitive space.
It appears to me everyone is trying to get into it. They like many others are effectively a sales channel.
That said, the question is how much underlying profit will they retain and will the be able to grow long term. All a bit average.

That said the SP price looks low to me. Might wade in, think there is plenty of time to do so though. Will wait.


----------



## So_Cynical (2 January 2019)

The market seems happy for FIG to trade between 2 and 2.2 cents, fair enough as management has no plan for recovery, no ideas at all it seems, they probably should all go and let the company start from scratch, people are still buying life and funeral insurance..


----------



## sptrawler (5 February 2019)

Looks like they are starting to stumble.

https://thewest.com.au/business/bru...surance-goes-into-trading-halt-ng-b881095020z


----------



## So_Cynical (6 February 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Looks like they are starting to stumble.
> 
> https://thewest.com.au/business/bru...surance-goes-into-trading-halt-ng-b881095020z




Stumbling? - down 97% since Sept i think its fair to say they have fallen hard, the final blow coming perhaps but the damage is well and truly done, i imagine the halt is in response the the RC findings and recommendations and will provide either a road map forward or the end..


----------

