# RAT - Rubicon America Trust



## yogi-in-oz (10 March 2006)

Hi folks,

RAT ..... off its mid-February lows and chart
is looking better now ... 

Look ahead, expecting key dates for RAT, about:

13-14032006 ..... positive news/moves here??  

   20032006 ..... positive (finance-related ... ???)

3003-03042006 ... significant and negative ???

   18042006 ..... minor

   25042006 ..... significant and negative news???

  happy days

   yogi


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## bullmarket (28 March 2006)

*Rubicon America Trust (RAT)*

Good morning everyone 

I've been doing a bit of reading this morning and have come across Rubicon America Trust's (RAT) announcement saying that their NTA (Nett Tangible Assets) has been lifted by 16% to $1.17 due to the revaluation of its US property portfolio.  RAT say details of the property revaluations will be released next week.

I see RAT is trading at ~$1.08 atm and on a prospective yld of ~10.6% at least some of which will be tax deferred.

I would imagine that if the market sees the revaluation details as 'realistic' then I would expect an eventual re-rating of RAT to around the $1.17 level over the next few months.

Anyway, one worth looking into imo for income driven investors and definitely on my watchlists.

Have a good day everyone  and I'll try to pop in this evening or tomorrow if anyone would like to discuss further.

cheers

bullmarket


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## yogi-in-oz (3 April 2006)

Hi folks,

RAT ..... as per post above, news comes in on time:

	"Acquisition of $A1.01 Billion in US Office Assets"

Let's see how the market deals with this news ..... ???

happy days

  yogi


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## yogi-in-oz (5 April 2006)

Hi folks,

RAT	Investor Presentation ..... so far, market
has responded as expected ..... negatively, as
per post above ..... 

happy days

  yogi


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## lau_gu (19 February 2008)

This article doesn't do RAT any favours. Exposing their illusory profit figures. 

http://business.smh.com.au/allcos-rat-of-a-year/20080219-1syd.html

Buyer beware.

regards
Lau


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## LuckyStar (24 November 2012)

Hi,

Grant Thornton, the appointed liquidator of Rubicon Asset Management, could not issue a declaration that the units of RAT are worthless, as units of a trust do not fall under the definition of financial instruments as contemplated by the particular provision in the ITAA1997 which deals with the issuance of such a declaration.

http://www.grantthornton.com.au/files/rubicon_letter_to_unitholders_fy_june11_110725.pdf

Then who can declare the units of RAT are worthless? 

Cheers


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## Bill M (25 November 2012)

LuckyStar said:


> Hi,
> 
> Grant Thornton, the appointed liquidator of Rubicon Asset Management, could not issue a declaration that the units of RAT are worthless, as units of a trust do not fall under the definition of financial instruments as contemplated by the particular provision in the ITAA1997 which deals with the issuance of such a declaration.
> 
> ...




I don't know who can declare the units worthless but you can sell them and realise a capital loss another way. I've sold stock before to http://www.delisted.com.au/ Yes it cost me some $$$ to get rid off them but at least they are gone and now they are the new owners responsibility. If they can scrounge a few $$$$ out of the liquidation then it is delisted.com.au who will get the proceeds, cheers.

Note: I have nothing to with that company, I am just trying help by giving you alternatives.


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## Ves (25 November 2012)

Bill M said:


> I don't know who can declare the units worthless but you can sell them and realise a capital loss another way. I've sold stock before to http://www.delisted.com.au/ Yes it cost me some $$$ to get rid off them but at least they are gone and now they are the new owners responsibility. If they can scrounge a few $$$$ out of the liquidation then it is delisted.com.au who will get the proceeds, cheers.
> 
> Note: I have nothing to with that company, I am just trying help by giving you alternatives.



Hey Bill - just out of curiousity would it have been possible to sell these to your wife or children or someone like that for the nominal consideration of $1?

Change of ownership would trigger a capital loss.  Only thing is that most registries charge a $55 fee these days.


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## McLovin (25 November 2012)

Ves said:


> Hey Bill - just out of curiousity would it have been possible to sell these to your wife or children or someone like that for the nominal consideration of $1?
> 
> Change of ownership would trigger a capital loss.  Only thing is that most registries charge a $55 fee these days.




Can you do a transfer to a related party and still claim the capital loss? (I have no idea if you can or can't but I know in a lot of jurisdictions they take a pretty dim view of it).


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## Ves (25 November 2012)

McLovin said:


> Can you do a transfer to a related party and still claim the capital loss? (I have no idea if you can or can't but I know in a lot of jurisdictions they take a pretty dim view of it).



Why not?  If you transfer from your own name to your SMSF or Discretionary Trust you would incur a CGT event - even if it was an "in-specie" contribution where no consideration is actually paid.  I assume that this is the same.  Unless they count it as a "wash sale" of sorts.


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## Ves (25 November 2012)

OK - looks like you cannot do it.

http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/content.aspx?doc=/content/36711.htm



> If a company is placed in liquidation or administration, company law restricts the transfer of shares in the company. This means that, in the absence of special capital gains tax (CGT) rules, you may not be able to realise a capital loss on shares that have become worthless unless you declare a trust over them.


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## McLovin (25 November 2012)

Ves said:


> Why not?  If you transfer from your own name to your SMSF or Discretionary Trust you would incur a CGT event - even if it was an "in-specie" contribution where no consideration is actually paid.  I assume that this is the same.  Unless they count it as a "wash sale" of sorts.




Yeah you may be right, my thinking was more along the lines of...

If I transfer a piece of land from my name to a family trust for $1 in consideration, the ATO will take the market value of the land and adjust my tax accordingly. Clearly in this instance, the units have no value. But then again, why would anyone pay $1 for something with no value unless the intention is to create a tax event?

Edit: Just saw your second post.


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## Bill M (25 November 2012)

Ves said:


> Hey Bill - just out of curiousity would it have been possible to sell these to your wife or children or someone like that for the nominal consideration of $1?
> 
> Change of ownership would trigger a capital loss.  Only thing is that most registries charge a $55 fee these days.




Yes I believe you can but that isn't free either. All broker firms will charge for that. I actually paid around $80 to that company. What some of the suggestions were was that you do not do this transfer approaching June 30 tax time. It is better do do it some other time of the year. From vague memory I had to sign some documentation with that brokerage company to make it all above board. My accountant checked it all after the deal and said I was perfectly within my rights do what I did when I did. Hope that sort of answers it. Anyway it's water under the bridge now.


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