# Trend Trading VSA



## RealForexTrader (9 September 2015)

Gday guys I am a technical trend trader using VSA to find high probability setups.

I will be posting tutorials on this thread regularly showing my method and the process I use. I might even post potential setups for London session. I just need to go over the forum rules and make sure I'm allowed.

I am well versed in Volume Spread Analysis and technical analysis and have been applying the two for a couple years now, so if you have any questions fire away!

First post coming soon this week


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## RealForexTrader (9 September 2015)

First Tutorial

Starting with some basics of VSA we will discuss what a NO DEMAND (nd) and a NO SUPPLY (ns) look like on your chart. These two signals are the cornerstone of VSA and are very important before an entry to show an inbalance in supply/demand.

For the example in this tutorial, we will use the ND signal.
The technical definition of a ND is a bull candle closing off the high with volume lower than the previous 2 candles, of course the market is not perfect so there is room to move on that rule under the right conditions.

To confirm a ND we need one of the proceeding candles to close below the low of the ND. Below is an example of a ND during a Fake Break, Head and shoulders pattern.


You can see the drop in volume and then the confirmation two candles later showing a lack of buying. The result a nice down move. 

The exact opposite applies when looking for a NO SUPPLY during a bullish market.

Any questions ask away  

We will discuss this for a little until everyone has it clear, then move onto something else.


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## Porper (9 September 2015)

RealForexTrader said:


> First Tutorial
> 
> Starting with some basics .




You forgot to mention your subscription service...off your website

"All indicators and my template are included in the subscription

Subscriptions are $200 a month."


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## RealForexTrader (9 September 2015)

Thanks Porper

That's because in the forum rules it says I can't. All I am allowed to do is list my website. But they don't say anything about you posting it, so thanks for putting it out there 

Trust me mate if I was allowed to advertise I would

I am confident in my service


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## RealForexTrader (9 September 2015)

Just found another thread on ASF that has a link to Tom Williams book on VSA. Its a must read for anyone wanting to learn this stuff

Here is the link:
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13804&highlight=VSA


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## sinner (9 September 2015)

RealForexTrader said:


> First Tutorial
> 
> Starting with some basics of VSA we will discuss what a NO DEMAND (nd) and a NO SUPPLY (ns) look like on your chart. These two signals are the cornerstone of VSA and are very important before an entry to show an inbalance in supply/demand.




How can you be trading using VSA techniques when you are charting with MetaTrader4 which shows tick volume (the number of trades executed in a bar), not transacted volume (the number of dollars transacted in a bar). How do you trade based on volume signals in a market where the majority of volume is OTC and proprietary?

Hindsight trades presented as "tutorials" presented by salesmen are generally not appreciated, nor do they carry much weight here, if you wish to teach people a technique please demonstrate real time trades.

If anyone was curious about the chart in the above post, it is the 5 minute EURUSD from September 8th. I'm 95% certain the volume graph can be safely disregarded.

EDIT: lol at the title "trend trading VSA" and then the example post is a breakout fade.


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## sinner (9 September 2015)

RealForexTrader said:


> The technical definition of a ND is a bull candle closing off the high with volume lower than the previous 2 candles




Um, really? Got some kind of reference for that?

Actually the technical definition of a No Demand bar is as follows:



> No Demand Bar: a narrow spread UpBar with low volume that Closes in the lower half of the price-bar.




or more loosely



> Price closed higher than the previous bar.
> Volume is lower than past two bars.
> Spreads (Range) are narrow.




The bar you posted has a wide spread. You have no idea what the volume is because you're looking at tick volume. It also doesn't close in the lower half of the price bar.


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## Trembling Hand (9 September 2015)

sinner said:


> How can you be trading using VSA techniques when you are charting with MetaTrader4 which shows tick volume (the number of trades executed in a bar), not transacted volume (the number of dollars transacted in a bar). How do you trade based on volume signals in a market where the majority of volume is OTC and proprietary?
> 
> If anyone was curious about the chart in the above post, it is the 5 minute EURUSD from September 8th. I'm 95% certain the volume graph can be safely disregarded.




Yep,

Have a look at the futs chart from same time which from when I had interbank data would often show same kinda volume profiles.

Tick volume is useless,


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## RealForexTrader (9 September 2015)

You should join up you might learn a thing or two.

Do you want some videos? I can post tonight's trading session if you would like?

and the volume in forex thing is an old argument it is still activity you just change some things

Example:

traditional VSA will tell you to look for high volume on a push but because we are using tick volume we need low volume indicating a lack of "movement" not a lack of volume

High tick volume would indicate a mix of buying and selling meaning price would not be ready for the push.

Also, you said
"lol at the title "trend trading VSA" and then the example post is a breakout fade."

The example is showing the basics of a ND/NS I never said it was an example of an entry, did you read the whole post?


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## sinner (9 September 2015)

Trembling Hand said:


> Yep,
> 
> Have a look at the futs chart from same time which from when I had interbank data would often show same kinda volume profiles.
> 
> Tick volume is useless,




LOL and just to show how completely off the mark the original analysis was, there are two actual really good examples of NoSupply and NoDemand on the chart, I have relabelled TH post with #1 (No Supply) and #2 (No Demand) to show them.


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## sinner (9 September 2015)

RealForexTrader said:


> and the volume in forex thing is an old argument it is still activity you just change some things




The argument is old I guess because charlatans keep trying to dupe ignorant people?



> High tick volume would indicate a mix of buying and selling meaning price would not be ready for the push.




Utter nonsense. What evidence do you provide to support this claim? High tick volume indicates nothing other than a high number of transactions took place within a bar. That could be a million $1 transactions and it would show up as a big tick volume bar, except $1m of *transacted dollars* on the FX is peanuts.

Tick volume provides pretty much no additional information to a price bar chart.


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## RealForexTrader (9 September 2015)

sinner said:


> Tick volume provides pretty much no additional information to a price bar chart.




How about I post all my winning and losing trades over the next couple days and you post yours?

Talks cheap

Deal?


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## Modest (9 September 2015)

*gets popcorn*


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## sinner (9 September 2015)

RealForexTrader said:


> How about I post all my winning and losing trades over the next couple days and you post yours?
> 
> Talks cheap
> 
> Deal?




Call all your trades in advance, publicly, here. Position sizing (can be as a % risked to avoid disclosing dollar figures), stop losses and targets if used.

I'll call you out whenever I see something dodgy.

Talk is cheap.

Deal?


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## RealForexTrader (9 September 2015)

sinner said:


> Call all your trades in advance, publicly, here. Position sizing (can be as a % risked to avoid disclosing dollar figures), stop losses and targets if used.
> 
> I'll call you out whenever I see something dodgy.
> 
> ...




No Worries and you will post your trades in the same format?


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## tech/a (9 September 2015)

Known Gavin for 15 yrs.
Studied VSA for as long.
Watching with interest.


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## CanOz (9 September 2015)

Modest said:


> *gets popcorn*




Lol@modest.....


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## RealForexTrader (9 September 2015)

tech/a said:


> Known Gavin for 15 yrs.
> Studied VSA for as long.
> Watching with interest.




You Know Gavin Holmes? 

That's so cool!!!


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## sinner (9 September 2015)

RealForexTrader said:


> No Worries and you will post your trades in the same format?




This thread is all yours buddy. Tutorial threads are welcome but there is an expected format, take a look around the forum and see how others are doing it. If you're teaching something repeatable and successful then you will get interested parties. Expect to be called out on content that looks like a sales pitch, we get a lot of it around here.


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## ThingyMajiggy (9 September 2015)

sinner said:


> This thread is all yours buddy. Tutorial threads are welcome but there is an expected format, take a look around the forum and see how others are doing it. If you're teaching something repeatable and successful then you will get interested parties. Expect to be called out on content that looks like a sales pitch, we get a lot of it around here.




Why not take him up on the challenge? You always seem to have plenty to say in others' posts, would be interesting to say the least. 

I might steal some popcorn and sit back with Modest 

Plus I suck at trading, so I like seeing those who talk the talk, also walk the walk.


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## sinner (9 September 2015)

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Why not take him up on the challenge? You always seem to have plenty to say in others' posts, would be interesting to say the least.
> 
> I might steal some popcorn and sit back with Modest
> 
> Plus I suck at trading, so I like seeing those who talk the talk, also walk the walk.




Because I no longer trade intraday? I used to! And TH used to hassle me frequently for posting stuff about trading intraday momentum in forex lol!

But I stopped because it was far too stressful and not really aligned with my life goals. I have described what I do now, previously in a few threads, basically I hold some gold, some cash/bonds, and I have a handful of EOD based models which dictate my exposure to equity risk assets (I hold some single names but mostly portfolios/indexes) vs cash. No leverage, except occasionally I might go long options if the models dictate. The turnover is very low, I'm not sure daily updates of "still holding ~30% net long risk assets with the balance in cash and gold" for months on end would be that exciting. 

You can usually get a gist of my current opinions based on what I'm posting, as it's usually the raw inputs of what goes into the models.


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## ThingyMajiggy (9 September 2015)

sinner said:


> Because I no longer trade intraday? I used to! And TH used to hassle me frequently for posting stuff about trading intraday momentum in forex lol!
> 
> But I stopped because it was far too stressful and not really aligned with my life goals. I have described what I do now, previously in a few threads, basically I hold some gold, some cash/bonds, and I have a handful of EOD based models which dictate my exposure to equity risk assets (I hold some single names but mostly portfolios/indexes) vs cash. No leverage, except occasionally I might go long options if the models dictate. The turnover is very low, I'm not sure daily updates of "still holding ~30% net long risk assets with the balance in cash and gold" for months on end would be that exciting.
> 
> You can usually get a gist of my current opinions based on what I'm posting, as it's usually the raw inputs of what goes into the models.




Haha fair enough  I never really understand what you're doing, it's all too complicated for me with the way you describe it, but you sound fairly systematic in your approach which gets me curious, but not for this thread 

As you were everyone! *starts nomming popcorn again*


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## Trembling Hand (9 September 2015)

sinner said:


> Utter nonsense. What evidence do you provide to support this claim? High tick volume indicates nothing other than a high number of transactions took place within a bar. That could be a million $1 transactions and it would show up as a big tick volume bar, except $1m of *transacted dollars* on the FX is peanuts.
> 
> Tick volume provides pretty much no additional information to a price bar chart.




Actually isn't it a change in the best bid or ask price. I think when MT4 shows a tick it is a price change rather than a trade. Which makes it even more ridiculous to use as info when you have the flashing micro pip changes in OTC retail platforms.


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## tech/a (9 September 2015)

RealForexTrader said:


> You Know Gavin Holmes?
> 
> That's so cool!!!




Er yeh
He,s got 2 arms and legs loves fishing and a beer and laugh.

Nearly as much as his passion for business.

VSA has a way of making you feel like you've just discovered fire.
The market soon shows you what fire does best---burns.

Is it my round?:drink:


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## RealForexTrader (9 September 2015)

Potential trades for tonight

AUD/USD
GBP/USD

All trades need a fresh sign of strength from key levels and then an entry before a position is opened

Entries come after:
large buy/selling
Automatic Rally
Low Volume Testing of key levels
NS/ND
Low Volume Push of Automatic Rally

Only after all these things can a position be opened

AUD/USD 



GBP/USD



Both Pairs very bullish, buying in the background.
If we don't get an entry tonight it may come tomorrow, take what the market gives.

Will post again after an entry forms.


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## RealForexTrader (9 September 2015)

GBP/CHF Close to a long tonight.

See if we get an entry.


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## RealForexTrader (9 September 2015)

Just opened a position long  GBP/CHF





I will post targets soon


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## RealForexTrader (9 September 2015)

Targets



Manage positions when they reach these areas and close on large signs of weakness


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## RealForexTrader (9 September 2015)

Closed the position for a profit of 15pips because of a little weakness. Not the biggest win and price may continue up but its better safe than sorry, plus you don't want to sit through a whole heap of drawdown, maybe a double bottom just to catch another leg up. You could just close half and let the other half run, I will sometimes do that. But tonight im happy with my 15 pips. See how we go tomorrow, might get a couple of those other longs 

Here is the closed position:


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## minwa (9 September 2015)

Do you have an AFSL license ? You will need one for what youre selling on the site.

Also link up a myfxbook to your live or demo account
 It is free and requires no extra work after setup and no one will argue you of its validity. 

If after a while you show good profits on low risk I am sure you will get many more paid subscribers and you can also shove it in the face of some posters here. 

But I doubt that will happen. Please update AFSL number or remove link to your site.

Once no reference of your site is left I am sure you get a more warm welcome here.


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## fiftyeight (9 September 2015)

ThingyMajiggy said:


> I never really understand what you're doing, it's all too complicated for me with the way you describe it, but you sound fairly systematic in your approach which gets me curious, but not for this thread




Also enjoy Sinner posts, if I knew what he was talking about I would enjoy them even more


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## RealForexTrader (10 September 2015)

minwa said:


> Do you have an AFSL license ? You will need one for what youre selling on the site.
> 
> Also link up a myfxbook to your live or demo account
> It is free and requires no extra work after setup and no one will argue you of its validity.
> ...




Don't need an AFSL License its an educational webinar, all I need is an ABN and I have that.

I will have a look at my fx book today and post something up.

and the link to my site stays. Nothing is free, its taken me a lot of time effort and money to get to this point so why would I give it away for free. It is within the rules of this site to have a link in your signature and I have made no mention of it in any posts.

Guys if you dont like my website. just dont click on it and move on with your life


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## minwa (10 September 2015)

RealForexTrader said:


> Don't need an AFSL License its an educational webinar, all I need is an ABN and I have that.




Wow really ? For your sake I would carefully read http://asic.gov.au/regulatory-resources/financial-services/giving-financial-product-advice/ 

You fall under giving GENERAL FINANCIAL advice and solocitating in dealing of financial products. Lots of EDUCATORS around search up Safety in the markets, Traderscircle, Platinum Pursuits. They all have AFSL because they are seeking renumeration for giving financial education/general financial advice like your site.


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## sinner (10 September 2015)

RealForexTrader said:


> Just opened a position long  GBP/CHF
> 
> I will post targets soon




LOL at "low volume test" using MT4 volume. How can you claim to be serious! Curious which trend you are following here too. 

Also enjoyed:


> Manage positions when they reach these areas and close on large signs of weakness




followed by:



> Closed the position for a profit of 15pips because of a little weakness.




good for a larf.

btw, if you're gonna try and hide your position size, probably best to not display it directly on your chart. If anyone was curious, the GBPCHF position size was 1.00 lot. i.e. no real position sizing algorithm in place.


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## Porper (10 September 2015)

minwa said:


> Wow really ? For your sake I would carefully read http://asic.gov.au/regulatory-resources/financial-services/giving-financial-product-advice/
> 
> You fall under giving GENERAL FINANCIAL advice and solocitating in dealing of financial products. Lots of EDUCATORS around search up Safety in the markets, Traderscircle, Platinum Pursuits. They all have AFSL because they are seeking renumeration for giving financial education/general financial advice like your site.




I agree, an AFSL is almost certainly required...seems pretty clear cut to me. Maybe should have checked this before advertising on here as their business is out in the open now.


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## minwa (10 September 2015)

sinner said:


> btw, if you're gonna try and hide your position size, probably best to not display it directly on your chart. If anyone was curious, the GBPCHF position size was 1.00 lot. i.e. no real position sizing algorithm in place.




Oops, 1.00 is the demo account default setting.


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## RealForexTrader (10 September 2015)

Again guys talks cheap and all your doing is talking............

I don't see any of you guys posting winning setups?

Until you can do that, your comments are irrelevant to me and carry no weight.

I will just continue posting winning trades week after week..... and of course any losers, I'm an honest guy after all


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## Porper (10 September 2015)

RealForexTrader said:


> Until you can do that, your comments are irrelevant to me and carry no weight.




Well if I was you I wouldn't dismiss the license issue to provide financial advice. It's not inexpensive and if everybody else has to tow the line then so do you...or you will suffer the consequences. They won't be good.



RealForexTrader said:


> I will just continue posting winning trades week after week..... and of course any losers, I'm an honest guy after all.




Of course, we are all waiting for the live trades. I can sense you are trustworthy.


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## sinner (10 September 2015)

RealForexTrader said:


> Until you can do that, your comments are irrelevant to me and carry no weight.




We don't care about you buddy, we care about providing a reality check for those who might fall prey to your sales tactics.

To summarise:
* Claiming to trade VSA, but trades a proprietary market where real volume data costs $$$ (eSignal AGET which is the standard for real actual FX traders currently runs at 300USD/mo).
* Claiming to be a real trader, uses MetaTrader4, the software designed to game money from retail noobs.
* Claiming to know VSA, but can't even properly identify NoDemand bars on a chart.
* Claiming that MT4 tick volume can be used interchangeably with actual transacted volume.
* Claiming that MT4 tick volume has different application than actual transacted volume, while still treating MT4 tick volume as if it were transacted volume for the purposes of VS analysis, contradicting the previous claim.
* Runs a paid subscription service, selling a template and indicators which can be obtained for free from countless threads on countless retail forex forums like forexfactory.com.

Carry on.


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## RealForexTrader (10 September 2015)

sinner said:


> We don't care about you buddy, we care about providing a reality check for those who might fall prey to your sales tactics.
> 
> To summarise:
> * Claiming to trade VSA, but trades a proprietary market where real volume data costs $$$ (eSignal AGET which is the standard for real actual FX traders currently runs at 300USD/mo).
> ...




As i said i will just keep posting winnners, you do your talking....

Wise men dont argue with fools


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## minwa (10 September 2015)

RealForexTrader said:


> As i said i will just keep posting winnners, you do your talking....




You will sound more credible when you also post losers. Saying you will post winners after winners while selling a service actually turns people away.

Still waiting on these 2 things:

1. Myfxbook - that shows your real trades of 1.00 lots. It will also confirm that GBPCHF trade and all future trades was taken in the live market.

2. Why you are exempt from an AFSL license. Your reason was you only provide education, can you please expand on that on why you are exempt while all other educators are required to be licensed. I think the moderators should step in and remove unlicensed link until it can be explained on why the exemption from AFSL. 

I'm a prospective buyer of "winning trades after winning trades" for only $200 signals. Just not sure why you claim you do not need an AFSL license. If you do not require a license, you would not mind me alerting ASIC to take a quick look and give me the go ahead it's exempt from license ?

PS. We are not here selling services like you, got nothing to prove to anyone.


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## Wysiwyg (11 September 2015)

sinner said:


> LOL at "low volume test" using MT4 volume. *How can you claim to be serious!* Curious which trend you are following here too.



The tick (price change) volume varies between MT4 brokers so hardly a universal reference.

I always wonder why a trader tries to promote their trading techniques when really all they have to do is hit the market with 100 contracts on their winning system and beat the market consistently. The truth is there is no certainty in these things so a subscription base is a more certain income. Additionally if they had been trading successfully for many years then what the!


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## tech/a (12 September 2015)

Joe is having a hrs time due to his freedom of speech

You guys are like a pack of wolves.
Let him present what it is he wants to present.

So what he wants to sell his ideas.
If I was him I'd be more worried about TRADEGUIDER.

VSA is as easy as you like in hind site ---- sinner.
Call that as a no demand bar in real time.


VSA is as fallible as any analysis---but it has it's place.


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## sinner (14 September 2015)

tech/a said:


> Joe is having a hrs time due to his freedom of speech




So we should curtail free speech then?



> You guys are like a pack of wolves.




I actually am starting to find this pretty offensive mate, considering all the hounding you have done on this forum, when you come and accuse people of being wolves because the thread is about a topic you take personally like EW or VSA, even though you have *obviously* not read the content of the thread at all!

What a joke! 



> Let him present what it is he wants to present.




Has anyone stopped him? 



> So what he wants to sell his ideas.




*what* ideas tech? VSA using tick volume in forex? Why's it not OK to shill for options bullcrap or for FA people to buy falling shares (topics I have seen you hound) but it's OK to shill for VSA bullcrap or EW bullcrap? Is it just because you use those techniques? Seems that way to me...

Nobody is claiming that options, or EW, or VSA are faulty techniques, the argument is against the misinformation presented for the purpose of profiting off naive or otherwise aspiring traders. Should be obvious, assuming you are paying attention.


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