# If I move countries what happens to my shares?



## Realist (28 March 2007)

Say I move to the UK, NZ, or USA to live permanently or even just for a few years what can I do with my shares?

Supposedly Commsec is only for Australian residents? Do I have to move them or sell them?

Can I move them tax free to another countries account?


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## CanOz (28 March 2007)

Realist said:


> Say I move to the UK, NZ, or USA to live permanently or even just for a few years what can I do with my shares?
> 
> Supposedly Commsec is only for Australian residents? Do I have to move them or sell them?
> 
> Can I move them tax free to another countries account?




Well i've had no issues. Your investments will still be taxed under Australian law, although your income may not be.

Cheers,


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## Mousie (28 March 2007)

Great topic to raise Realist.

If you have someone you trust staying behind in Australia, you can give them a Power of Attorney to handle your shares on your behalf. But then again if you're not interested in voting and participating in share buybacks and SPPs I'd like to think you can just leave things as it is?

However you'd like to arrange these affairs you'd still need to maintain an Australian bank account to collect your money from selling shares, unless you have an offshore company's bank account IMO...

Hmmm...this is one subject I'd really like to hear from others who're staying overseas investing in Australia especially


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## trading_rookie (28 March 2007)

> But then again if you're not interested in voting and participating in share buybacks and SPPs I'd like to think you can just leave things as it is?




If you had done that with your TAB shares you'd be left with nothing....


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## Mousie (28 March 2007)

trading_rookie said:


> If you had done that with your TAB shares you'd be left with nothing....




Yeah, one of those 'once in a blue moon' scenarios...to each their own whether they wanna be prepared for such possibilities really


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## Realist (28 March 2007)

The other question is - I get so much ****e in the mail about all my shares, but also more importantly dividends etc.

If I move overseas should I redirect it via the post office, or can I ask ComputerShare and Commsec to redirect overseas?

The problem being I do not think Commsec will let you have an account if you are not based in Australia.


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## CanOz (28 March 2007)

Realist said:


> The problem being I do not think Commsec will let you have an account if you are not based in Australia.




Why? Your a citizen for gods sake. There only banks Realist.....YOUR the customer.

Besides...who to say how long your going to be away? As long as you have an Australian address, but not even totally needed.

Cheers,


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## rub92me (28 March 2007)

For a small fee you can transfer them to my account. I'll take good care of them , I promise : .
I don't think it is a problem, as long as you pay your taxes. I hold bank accounts in 3 different countries...


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## tybutler (28 March 2007)

Realist said:


> The other question is - I get so much ****e in the mail about all my shares, but also more importantly dividends etc.
> 
> If I move overseas should I redirect it via the post office, or can I ask ComputerShare and Commsec to redirect overseas?
> 
> The problem being I do not think Commsec will let you have an account if you are not based in Australia.




Realist,

You should elect to receive all your mail via e-mail through your share registry (Computershare etc.) but you'll still need someone 'on the ground', at your 'registered address' to take care of important correspondence such as dividend cheques and share entitlements. This is how I've been doing it and it's working out ok. 

The tricky part is tax. I briefly looked into it and got the gist that if you're getting fully franked dividends you're ok, and that you should try to stay below the lowest income tax level since you're out of Australia and not a resident paying tax. I too need to look into this further as my portfolio is growing a little too big to stay under the radar without knowing exactly what I need to do.

If anyone knows differently I'd love to know - (mine is not accurate advice).

Ty.


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## bowser (28 March 2007)

Look into mail forwarding services Realist. They will be based in Oz and you can change your postal address to it. Then for a fee each month they forward your mail to where ever it is you are. I used a similiar service whilst in Europe.


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## theasxgorilla (29 March 2007)

bowser said:


> Look into mail forwarding services Realist. They will be based in Oz and you can change your postal address to it. Then for a fee each month they forward your mail to where ever it is you are. I used a similiar service whilst in Europe.




I just set this up.  Aust Post, International, to Europe, 6 months, $272.  There is no limit on the volume of mail sent.


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## theasxgorilla (29 March 2007)

Realist said:


> The other question is - I get so much ****e in the mail about all my shares, but also more importantly dividends etc.
> 
> If I move overseas should I redirect it via the post office, or can I ask ComputerShare and Commsec to redirect overseas?
> 
> The problem being I do not think Commsec will let you have an account if you are not based in Australia.




It's a long holiday...thats all.


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## Mousie (29 March 2007)

theasxgorilla said:


> I just set this up.  Aust Post, International, to Europe, 6 months, $272.  There is no limit on the volume of mail sent.




For 12 months it's $541  But it's great to see trustees for family trusts being charged the same rates as individuals, compared to businesses


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## Atomic5 (29 March 2007)

Realist said:


> The other question is - I get so much ****e in the mail about all my shares, but also more importantly dividends etc.
> 
> If I move overseas should I redirect it via the post office, or can I ask ComputerShare and Commsec to redirect overseas?
> 
> The problem being I do not think Commsec will let you have an account if you are not based in Australia.




I have an ordinary online trading Commsec account which I never use and they dont seem to care where I am. Unlike my other online broker, CommSec will send your mail overseas.  But check with them maybe - ask them 'what if' .... You will probably only need to keep an Australian bank account.


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## Atomic5 (29 March 2007)

Sorry I forgot ...

With Chess it might be another matter, in that if you register your shares under a foreign address with Commsec, you might become categorised as 'foreign' with Chess ... you will need to clear that. I kept an Australian address.


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## theasxgorilla (29 March 2007)

Mousie said:


> For 12 months it's $541  But it's great to see trustees for family trusts being charged the same rates as individuals, compared to businesses




I get a fair amount of mail...probably too much to re-direct to a family member, so to cost up a comparison I needed to factor in a post office box.  If I paid somebody to collect my mail there once a month, package it up and put enough stamps to get it all over to me it would be much more than $45 a month.  And there would most likely be a delay of many weeks between when a letter sent and when it arrived, which in investing can be costly.

This service is very cost effective, given that they send your mail on fairly quickly, as they receive it.

I also set up a local redirect to my folks, then did the international redirect from their address, so that if there is something wrong with the international redirect they can act as a bit of a bucket...since the service won't post parcels, only letters.


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## theasxgorilla (29 March 2007)

tybutler said:


> The tricky part is tax. I briefly looked into it and got the gist that if you're getting fully franked dividends you're ok, and that you should try to stay below the lowest income tax level since you're out of Australia and not a resident paying tax. I too need to look into this further as my portfolio is growing a little too big to stay under the radar without knowing exactly what I need to do.
> 
> If anyone knows differently I'd love to know - (mine is not accurate advice).
> 
> Ty.




Tax is a little interesting.

Something to consider...as a non-resident you pay zero CGT.  But to qualify for this you must have non-resident status, which exposes you to unfavourable tax brackets...29 cents from the first dollar of income (NOTE, thats INCOME, not Capital Gain).

Also, to become non-resident you must virtually dispose of the shares you are holding...although you don't actually dispose of them, instead you declare the date that you left and take the share price on that day to be your disposal price.  You'll pay CGT (or not, if you 'sold' at a loss) at your next tax return as if you had actually sold for that disposal price.

After this, any further capital gains are tax free.

This link:

http://www.ato.gov.au/taxprofessionals/content.asp?doc=/content/31734.htm&page=9

...has information on how dividend income is treated for a non-resident.

But to me, it still sounds like you're going on a _long holiday_


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## Atomic5 (29 March 2007)

Regarding CGT - I looked into that. There appears to be a clause and I haven't as yet been able to get a clarification of how it applies to mining. I read that minerals in the ground are treated like property for tax purposes if the minerals are in Australia, meaning that even if you have non-resident status you end up paying CGT if you make a profit on mining shares (with said minerals in Australia), as you would on Australian real estate.

Does anyone know exactly what the rule is?

Thanks.


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## theasxgorilla (29 March 2007)

Atomic5 said:


> Regarding CGT - I looked into that. There appears to be a clause and I haven't as yet been able to get a clarification of how it applies to mining. I read that minerals in the ground are treated like property for tax purposes if the minerals are in Australia, meaning that even if you have non-resident status you end up paying CGT if you make a profit on mining shares (with said minerals in Australia), as you would on Australian real estate.
> 
> Does anyone know exactly what the rule is?
> 
> Thanks.




Ouch, thats gotta suck...keeps coming back to the _long holiday_ scenario.

Something else Realist...self managed superfund...if you have one there is a regulation which says you must return to the country for 28 consecutive days every 2 years.  Failure to do so will result in a 48% tax being levied on your SMSF account balance at the point you become non-qualifying...yes, thats correct, 48% tax on the balance of the account, not the gains for a given year...SMSF is real **** if you're a non-resident.


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## tybutler (29 March 2007)

Gorilla,

In the event of a 'long holiday', you'd still have to submit a tax return each year right? I've been abroad for over 5 years. How long would constitute a 'long holiday'?

Ty.


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## theasxgorilla (29 March 2007)

tybutler said:


> Gorilla,
> 
> In the event of a 'long holiday', you'd still have to submit a tax return each year right? I've been abroad for over 5 years. How long would constitute a 'long holiday'?
> 
> Ty.




Technically if you're in the other country for more than half the year and earn an income there you are a non-resident in Australia for tax purposes.

Five years+ is too long to be on holiday for tax purposes IMO.  Particularly if you're earning an income in that country.


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## mmmmining (29 March 2007)

You can change you postal address to a foreign address. The online broker such as comsec or any will allow to do so.

The disadvantage is you are classified as foreigner if outside ANZ. So a lot of freebies you are excluded, such as placement, right issue, SSP, spin-off, priority allocation, etc, and etc.

If you have an US address, NAB, BHP, NWS.... a bunch of companies will cause you a lot of trouble for dividends. You have to fill a bunch of forms to say you pay tax in Aus, etc.


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## Dettis (31 August 2020)

tybutler said:


> Realist,
> 
> You should elect to receive all your mail via e-mail through your share registry (Computershare etc.) but you'll still need someone 'on the ground', at your 'registered address' to take care of important correspondence such as dividend cheques and share entitlements. This is how I've been doing it and it's working out ok.
> 
> ...





what state did you move to? Not to Virginia, by any chance?


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