# If all business cows in China are holy?



## Miner (12 July 2009)

Folks

I thought to start this thread on the bullying and intimidating action of Chinese Government by holding a Rio executive in the name of espionage.

They now claimed that commercial sensitive materials were taken by offering bribe

That was a joke. As you ask any person doing business in China about the level of bribery and corruption there. It is irony that the level of corruption probably no less than that in Indonesia. China got away because of their massive financial power and population, Virtually all countries are now making their goods in China.

Question comes what happens next if Chinese companies totally denounce the copyrights of several products such as Sony, Panasonic and others and start imitation products without giving rats ?

How many bxxls will have our Prime Minister to say to his counter part if CHinese wants to show a lesson to Rio by sheer intimidation and hang the Rio personnel ? Probably they will leave the Aussie one but certainly hang their own country persons. They give xxit to us. They killed Tiernaman (sorry for spell) students, humilated Dalai Lama - who could raise any thing against them. We are all sold before China. 

The damages IMO just started and wait and see with recent Chinese takeovers. 

Rio has never had far sight and that was well proven their rejection of BHPB offer. Offering bribes by Australian companies outside Australia is an open secret. However Rio should have restrained when the Chinalco deal got cancelled. 

What do you people think ?


----------



## Sean K (12 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy ?*

What did you want the title of the thread to say?


----------



## Aussiejeff (12 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy ?*



kennas said:


> What did you want the title of the thread to say?




"Holy cow", batman???


----------



## darnsmall (12 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*

lol I'm watching Julie Bishop on Insiders say that no one should be held without charge, they've had him for a number of days now and has not had access to a lawyer or contact with anyone.
This is awesome!!!
I haven't seen hypocrisy like that since the liberal party and Guantanamo Bay...lol its great!!!
She thinks we're all idiots; just most of us.


----------



## shag (12 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*

you guys should look at the fonterra/san lu saga last year.
the fonterra exec's were pretty close to being arrested despite being clean, but they saw it comming and ran for cover.
fonterra is not in the scale of rio, and had far less time in china, but they lost all their technology and money and basically were thrown out. very valuable technology for the chinese.
it was the nasty melamine saga.
a few hundred million were thrown out the door in one go.


----------



## darnsmall (12 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*

not too fussed otherwise about what China's doing. we're not going to go to war with them. The US might, I'll move to middle earth if we do.

China's corrupt, massive, powerful, needed, feared. Foreign investment in China is a risk and it's probably not helped when they see us as trying to stop them from investing in Australia. I don't think our opposition parties will help our image in the Chinese eyes. And I think we should move away from China for investment and trade only if we can find another super power that can fill the gap they'd leave and be some how more morally stable; not likely. 

So I think we just need to accept that this is the nature of the beast. We had the US before and its likely it will now be China. And they'll spend less trying to cover their tracks and their corruption they'll just do it and tell us to swallow it or piss off...fair enough. We were the surrogate state of the US for a while now we have an opportunity to align with China. Let's do it, make some money and hope we don't lose to many people their Guantanamo


----------



## matty2.0 (12 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*

The relationship with the Chinese is too important IMO. We should sacrifice those Rio executives for the greater good. 
China means big $$$ to us ... and we risk too much if we get into political arguments over them.


----------



## Calliope (12 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*



matty2.0 said:


> The relationship with the Chinese is too important IMO. We should sacrifice those Rio executives for the greater good.
> China means big $$$ to us ... and we risk too much if we get into political arguments over them.




I think Rudd is giving off signals that Hu is expendable, while outwardly showing righteous indignation.


----------



## matty2.0 (12 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*



Calliope said:


> I think Rudd is giving off signals that Hu is expendable, while outwardly showing righteous indignation.




Rudd's a smart guy, don't underestimate him. He knows how to play the political game. He definitely knows China that's for sure. 
Malcolm Turnball is silly I think to just immediately jump in and say we should go after the Chinese straight away ... doesn't understand a thing about foreign affairs. China is huge, and Australia has a fantastic position with the rise of Asia this century. Many western countries like the USA and Europe would love to be in our position.

Chinese culture is a bit different. There's this thing called "face value". You have to show respect, and if you don't ... they won't immediately tell you that you are disrespectful, but they will show it to you in other ways ... like what is happening with Rio right now. 
Watch what they do, not what they say. Same thing with the US currency ... they keep telling the US that they have faith in the US dollar and they won't sell US treasuries ... however behind the scenes, they are banding together with Russia, Hong Kong, Japan and other nations to set up a non-US based reserve currency.


----------



## shag (12 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*



Miner said:


> Folks
> 
> I thought to start this thread on the bullying and intimidating action of Chinese Government by holding a Rio executive in the name of espionage.
> 
> ...



nz shut up extremely quickly over human rights abuses in china under the very socialist labour regime, once the FTA  between the two was signed.
it was extremely hypocrytical of them given their usual rhetoric during their regime and supposed ideals.
i can't see rudd doing anything different.
BHP was very smart to allow rio to do the dirty work this year unless it all really blows out geopolitically.


----------



## gordon2007 (12 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*

"The Rudd government's response is pathetic. What happened to our Mandarin speaking Prime Minister - he's turned out to be a dim sim. A week has passed and the government has only now visited Hu. Absolute joke. We expect a bit of Kung Fu to get the matter sorted and we end up with oragami."

That's friggin funny as hell. I nearly pissed myself laughing so hard. Read it online via news.com. It was someone's response to an article about rio and china.

http://www.news.com.au/comments/0,23600,25768484-2,00.html


----------



## matty2.0 (12 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*



gordon2007 said:


> "The Rudd government's response is pathetic. What happened to our Mandarin speaking Prime Minister - he's turned out to be a dim sim. A week has passed and the government has only now visited Hu. Absolute joke. We expect a bit of Kung Fu to get the matter sorted and we end up with oragami."
> 
> That's friggin funny as hell. I nearly pissed myself laughing so hard. Read it online via news.com. It was someone's response to an article about rio and china.
> 
> http://www.news.com.au/comments/0,23600,25768484-2,00.html




Sounds like Turnball.


----------



## Glen48 (12 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*

Here is a bit of Chinese logic, the way to save money on piling's and as they are underground no one will know.


----------



## matty2.0 (12 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*

yep ... more iron ore needed ...


----------



## knocker (12 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*



matty2.0 said:


> The relationship with the Chinese is too important IMO. We should sacrifice those Rio executives for the greater good.
> China means big $$$ to us ... and we risk too much if we get into political arguments over them.




remember Pig Iron Bob? Sent lots of ore to Japan and came back our way a few years later.

Australia has let way too many from places where corruptions is a way of life into the country. Most are good decent people, but I can not help suspect that a fair load of unsavoury types have entered and manged to infilitrate to positions of power. See what greed does.


----------



## knocker (12 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*



Glen48 said:


> Here is a bit of Chinese logic, the way to save money on piling's and as they are underground no one will know.




Holy cr@p!!!! Was anyone in the building when it collapsed?


----------



## knocker (12 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*



matty2.0 said:


> Rudd's a smart guy, don't underestimate him. He knows how to play the political game. He definitely knows China that's for sure.
> Malcolm Turnball is silly I think to just immediately jump in and say we should go after the Chinese straight away ... doesn't understand a thing about foreign affairs. China is huge, and Australia has a fantastic position with the rise of Asia this century. Many western countries like the USA and Europe would love to be in our position.
> 
> Chinese culture is a bit different. There's this thing called "face value". You have to show respect, and if you don't ... they won't immediately tell you that you are disrespectful, but they will show it to you in other ways ... like what is happening with Rio right now.
> Watch what they do, not what they say. Same thing with the US currency ... they keep telling the US that they have faith in the US dollar and they won't sell US treasuries ... however behind the scenes, they are banding together with Russia, Hong Kong, Japan and other nations to set up a non-US based reserve currency.




Have not seen Krudds smiling face lately. What is he doing nowdays lol


----------



## sammy84 (12 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*



matty2.0 said:


> The relationship with the Chinese is too important IMO. We should sacrifice those Rio executives for the greater good.
> China means big $$$ to us ... and we risk too much if we get into political arguments over them.




Nice to see you have a spine. What other human rights should we forget in the search of greater monetary growth? I'm guessing you would be happy to sacrifice a lot so long as it doesn't affect you personally.


----------



## Happy (12 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*



knocker said:


> ...
> *Australia has let way too many *Chinese into the country. Most are good decent people, but I can not help suspect that a fair load of unsavoury types have entered and manged to infilitrate to positions of power. See what greed does.




I would say it this way:
*Australia has let way too many * from countries that bibery and corruption is way of life.

Not that we didn't have any of that in Australia without them, but not long from now it will be way of life here too.


----------



## knocker (12 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*



Happy said:


> I would say it this way:
> *Australia has let way too many * from countries that bibery and corruption is way of life.
> 
> Not that we didn't have any of that in Australia without them, but not long from now it will be way of life here too.




True I will rephrase that post as it is not meant to be rascist.


----------



## matty2.0 (12 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*



sammy84 said:


> Nice to see you have a spine. What other human rights should we forget in the search of greater monetary growth? I'm guessing you would be happy to sacrifice a lot so long as it doesn't affect you personally.




Okay ... maybe I went overboard. 
But we should still tread with caution when something comes up and it affects our foreign relations with China.


----------



## Glen48 (12 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*

That building killed 1 worker when it collapsed at 5:30am   makes you wonder about the other ones in the back ground..do you dig under all the check footings?... This is Chinese logic look at what they have done all because some people  most likely took a bribe to allow the building/s to be constructed and now have a full blown disaster... would you buy a unit/s from this builder?


----------



## darnsmall (12 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*



matty2.0 said:


> Okay ... maybe I went overboard.
> But we should still tread with caution when something comes up and it affects our foreign relations with China.




overboard?
Are you kidding!!! I think we should offer up monthly sacrifices to China to keep them happy if they want...so long as its not me


----------



## mikes (12 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*

holy cows  - the non-us currency

it is called investing any loose cash in the oz quarry - oz companies in copper, gold, gas, iron ore, coal, etc.  -  hope this  stretches to bbi's for sale coal loader in qld, which if not working properly would stuff some oz resources companies.


----------



## shag (13 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*



Glen48 said:


> That building killed 1 worker when it collapsed at 5:30am   makes you wonder about the other ones in the back ground..do you dig under all the check footings?... This is Chinese logic look at what they have done all because some people  most likely took a bribe to allow the building/s to be constructed and now have a full blown disaster... would you buy a unit/s from this builder?



they have found out(the hard way) an awful lot of contractors skimped or totally ignored the steel reinforcing in bridges and buildings in china. it was just a corrupt rort to make more money, steel is expensive, and you need a lot of it.
i just hope they have put steel in the right places in the three gorges dam.
we may find out if theres a good earthquake close to the site.
that building looks like it failed due to liquifaction(the lack of good foundations allowing it to topple when the earthquake accured).

its not just the foundations that will be missing appropriate steel in buildings etc.


----------



## Agentm (13 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*



shag said:


> they have found out(the hard way) an awful lot of contractors skimped or totally ignored the steel reinforcing in bridges and buildings in china. it was just a corrupt rort to make more money, steel is expensive, and you need a lot of it.
> i just hope they have put steel in the right places in the three gorges dam.
> we may find out if theres a good earthquake close to the site.
> that building looks like it failed due to liquifaction(the lack of good foundations allowing it to topple when the earthquake accured).
> ...





    * FEBRUARY 6, 2009, 9:13 P.M. ET

Scientists Link China's Dam to Earthquake, Renewing Debate 

By GAUTAM NAIK and SHAI OSTER

Scientists in China and the U.S. have published new reports examining the possibility that a giant dam may have helped to trigger last May's massive earthquake in China's Sichuan province, renewing controversy over the devastation and other dam-building projects across China's earthquake-prone western regions.

Evidence remains unclear on what effect the added pressure of water collected behind one dam would have on an earthquake of that size. The Zipingpu Dam is 5.5 kilometers away from the epicenter of the Sichuan quake, a 7.9 magnitude temblor. It killed about 80,000 people.

The dam was built 500 meters from the earthquake's fault line. A research paper by a group of Chinese scientists concluded that the weight of collected water clearly affected seismic activity. "It is worthwhile to further study if the effect played a role" in triggering the quake, according to an abstract of the paper published in the December issue of the Chinese journal Geology and Seismology.

Separately, Christian Klose, a researcher at Columbia University, put the extra weight of water in the area at about 320 million tons, without mentioning the dam by name. He said it "amplified the strain on the earth's crust" in a way that would alter the stresses below.

In China, debate could have an impact on plans to build even more dams. A group of 62 Chinese environmentalists and scientists has already appealed for a moratorium on dam construction in the region pending further study of the risks. The government -- and some Chinese scientists -- has said there is no connection between the dam and the quake.

Scientists discovered 10 years after the Hoover Dam was built in 1935 that its reservoir was increasing seismic activity. Since then, it has been well established that other human endeavors can set off powerful tremors beneath the earth's surface. These include coal mining, quarrying, oil drilling, and the injection of wastewater into the ground. Along China's Three Gorges Dam, officials acknowledge that seismic activity has increased slightly since the 400-mile reservoir began filling eight years ago.

Proving that such projects cause large earthquakes is another matter. "What was the rate of seismic activity in the area before the dam was built, and did that rate increase after the dam began to fill with water?" says Ross Stein, a geophysicist at the United States Geological Survey and member of a team that published a "stress analysis" of the Sichuan quake. "In the absence of that," he adds, "it's a very hard case to make."

When a dam is built, the accumulating water presses down upon the rock below. The pressure can cause a slippage in a pre-existing fault line, aggravating the situation that can lead to an earthquake. Water also can infiltrate the rock and significantly increase the rock's "pore pressure," which also can set off or hasten the arrival of a temblor.

In the U.S., government engineers often try to calculate such risks before building a dam, to estimate the likelihood of triggering a small earthquake. "But it's not always done elsewhere," says Ivan Wong, of URS Corp. of San Francisco, a seismologist who evaluates seismological hazards for the federal government and private firms. He didn't know whether it was done for the Zipingpu Dam.

Scientists say that the Zipingpu reservoir started filling in 2004 and had major fluctuations in the water level between 2007 and 2008. Still, the exact mechanics of what happened underground in Sichuan aren't clear.

The earthquake started some eight to 10 miles beneath the earth's surface, and the pressure from even such a large quantity of water significantly declines the deeper you go.

To establish the effect of pore pressure, scientists would need detailed statistics about it from before the earthquake. It isn't known whether such readings were ever taken.

"Nobody is claiming that there is direct proof that Zipingpu triggered the earthquake," said Peter Bosshard, policy director of environmental advocacy group International Rivers, which is a critic of many dam projects. "But there is disturbing scientific evidence based on the limited evidence available."

India is one of the few developing countries where seismic effects are taken into account for certain large-scale projects, including dams. Leonardo Seeber, a seismologist at the Lamong-Doherty Earth Observatory at Columbia University, says a number of the damaging earthquakes that hit the country in the 1980s are seen as being triggered by artificial reservoirs.

In the 1970s, California's Oroville Dam may have contributed to an earthquake of magnitude of 5.7 on the Richter scale. A quarrying operation in Reading, Pa., is believed by some seismologists to have set off a series of smaller quakes in that region.


----------



## Calliope (13 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*



matty2.0 said:


> Rudd's a smart guy, don't underestimate him. He knows how to play the political game. He definitely knows China that's for sure.




Rudd is the expert on China. He knows the importance of saving face.

So why on earth at the end of one of his overseas conferences ( I forget which) , and they were posing for the photo shoot, did he so deliberately snub the Chinese delegate, so that he could pose next to a mate.

The Chinese would have noted this and they forget nothing.


----------



## shag (13 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*

thanks agentm. at the southern lakes in NZ they were building the clyde dam when they found it had a fault line running right thru it. it was a bit late to scrap the dam, so came up with the idea of putting a wedge in the middle of it. thus if/when a decent EQ arrives, hopefully it will fill the gap.
if you are not downstream of it, it will be interesting to see if it works.

you do wonder if the three gorges dam is really worth the risk to the chinese population and infastructure downstream and around.


----------



## matty2.0 (13 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*



Calliope said:


> Rudd is the expert on China. He knows the importance of saving face.
> 
> So why on earth at the end of one of his overseas conferences ( I forget which) , and they were posing for the photo shoot, did he so deliberately snub the Chinese delegate, so that he could pose next to a mate.
> 
> The Chinese would have noted this and they forget nothing.






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uVVUPzms94

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcowAI9lk20


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t513bSx8F5U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWne85Bd3Oc


----------



## Largesse (13 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*

Hey Matty2.0.

What are you an analyst of? Clearly not options.

You never replied over in the credit spread thread...


----------



## matty2.0 (13 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*



Largesse said:


> Hey Matty2.0.
> 
> What are you an analyst of? Clearly not options.
> 
> You never replied over in the credit spread thread...




Oh ... I didn't know what you were talking about in the other thread. lol ... 

Why are you so persistent? :shake:


----------



## cutz (13 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*

Come on matty, i'm also curious on what you analyze, you have strong views on property, is that your field ?


----------



## Joe Blow (13 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*

Miner,

Can you please tell me exactly how the thread title is supposed to read so I can edit it?

At the moment it doesn't seem to make any sense.


----------



## Calliope (13 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*



Joe Blow said:


> Miner,
> 
> Can you please tell me exactly how the thread title is supposed to read so I can edit it?
> 
> At the moment it doesn't seem to make any sense.




It is one of those beautiful titles that you can interpret as anything you like. Most of us latched on to the word *China,* while ignoring "holy business cows"


----------



## Timmy (13 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*

"Holy business cows, Batman!" ???


----------



## shag (13 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*

i wonder what is going to happen to all the resources pricing, iron ore especially. theres no formal agreement yet, a differencial of between 33 to 40pc between the old contract price and the probable new chinese price.
do they sell it all on the spot market? 
hard to negotiate a new price with your negotiators in the slammer and soverign risk to anyone else caring to tempt fate, especially from BHP and RIO.

i bet the phone lines are running hot somewhere between the mills, to the government, to the suppliers.

china may have a large stockpiles, but its better to keep it, than run them down.

maybe i've missed it somewhere in the media.


----------



## Aussiejeff (13 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*



shag said:


> i wonder what is going to happen to all the resources pricing, iron ore especially. theres no formal agreement yet, a differencial of between 33 to 40pc between the old contract price and the probable new chinese price.
> do they sell it all on the spot market?
> hard to negotiate a new price with your negotiators in the slammer and soverign risk to anyone else caring to tempt fate, especially from BHP and RIO.
> 
> ...




Then again, maybe the cunning Chinese have a plan to run their stockpiles down as needed in the short-medium term, rather than buy big contracts from Oz until Rio et all are forced to their knees through diminishing export returns from China and agree to sell at a lower contract price? Otherwise, I don't see what they would gain either.

Didn't China recently discover a big local iron ore resource with approx. 50%+ of their previous local reserves?

Wonder what they have discovered in Africa? 

Time will tell, as usual.


----------



## Buckeroo (13 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*



darnsmall said:


> not too fussed otherwise about what China's doing. we're not going to go to war with them. The US might, I'll move to middle earth if we do.




So you would rather battle the Orc's!

We'll, even though I can't stand Rudd & his harem of union prostitutes, I'm of an opinion that the lame Management from Rio have practically no finesse & couldn't manage a dog with fleas. 

In Asian culture generally, loosing face is one of the worst things that can happen. This whole saga with Rio, literally shafted the Chinese and yes, I know, in our world its seen more as business cut & thrust.

But I can't help thinking, this is not going to end well for Australia. Economically this country is God or will be in the future - getting on the wrong side made not bode well. 

One way out would be to sack the Rio board & management teams - be not great loss I'm sure.

Cheers


----------



## gray.nomad (13 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*

It's great to see so many "Experts" on China and it's Laws and trading customs.  
Maybe, just maybe, there was bribary involved. 
I don't know and anyone else here does not know either.

In any case, China has probably it's nose out of joint (or egg on face) due to Rio's underhand deal with BHPB and maybe China wants to let others know that it will not be stuffed around.

I cannot really see why the Government (Rudd) should get involved in any other way than at a diplomatic level and maybe tighten up trading laws between the countries. I'd really hate to see (Turn)bull lose in a China shop.
My 2 cents worth.


----------



## Calliope (13 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*

gray.nomad. I think we are pretty sure there was no "bribary" involved.


----------



## gray.nomad (13 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*

Interesting reply, Calliope. 
Reading between the lines (or lack thereof) one must assume that you are or were privy to the dealings between Rio and Chinalco. How else could anyone state categorically, that "We are pretty sure that there was no "bribary" involved?

You might know that there was no "bribary" involved, (if you had personal dealings with Chinalco!)

What I am saying is: I do not know if there was "bribary" involved, nor would the great majority of Australians know. 

This problem needs to be resolved by diplomatic channels between the Australian Government and the Chinese Government, not by sabre rattling like our esteemed (NOT) leader of the opposition would like to do. We don't need a (Turn)Bull in the China shop. 

Thanks for pointing out the misspelled word "bribary".  I shall ensure that I will never mis-spell bribery again.

ZÃ i jiÃ n.


----------



## Calliope (13 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*



gray.nomad said:


> Interesting reply, Calliope.
> Reading between the lines (or lack thereof) one must assume that you are or were privy to the dealings between Rio and Chinalco. How else could anyone state categorically, that "We are pretty sure that there was no "bribary" involved?
> 
> You might know that there was no "bribary" involved, (if you had personal dealings with Chinalco!)




None of the above. I am just privy to correct spelling. By the way is a "gray nomad" different to a grey nomad.


----------



## Miner (13 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*



Joe Blow said:


> Miner,
> 
> Can you please tell me exactly how the thread title is supposed to read so I can edit it?
> 
> At the moment it doesn't seem to make any sense.




Hi Joe

I did not have a chance to look into thread since started during weekend. Sorry to have missed the query raised by Sean first and then you or to interact with other comments. 

It is interesting to see the comments posted however.

What I wanted to say under reference of holy cow. Means something pious. So in a way if all businesses in China are clean as distilled water or similar to holy cow. 

You can change the title if you want to suit the intent so long people participate on the forum.  I noticed there are two 'are'. 

Probably the title could read IF ALL BUSINESS COWS IN CHINA ARE  HOLY ?


----------



## Miner (13 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*

I got a mail from a colleague who also reads the forum. 
The mail stated :

When billion dollars are under  stake then if Rudd makes a Chinese born  Rio executive be used as a sacrificial lamb by the Chinese government - what really matters for  Australia ? With this sacrifice Rudd wins one against China and keep the business going. 

The person also said if Rudd would have reacted slightly quicker if the Rio Executive was of an English Ancestory than a Chinese ancestory. 

(I personally strongly oppposed both the suggestions. I am putting the points in the forum to check people reaction on this INDECENT PROPOSAL)

Personally I believe it is the humanity which rises against all kinds of politics and dirty tricks. Alas I am so naive. If this was so then the Hiroshima and Nagasaki or any kind of war would not have happened. No drugs, no crimes, no bribery, no corruption, no cynism, no divorce - everything is legal and holy. 

Bloody earth - lawyers, police, justice system would be unemployed then.


----------



## Calliope (14 July 2009)

The reality is that the Chinese can bully us as much as they like and there in nothing we can do about it. They know that without them our economy would be shot. 

A few weeks ago Rio put the hard word on Chinese steel companies (i.e. the Chinese government) for $11.5 billion to compensate for broken contracts. The Chinese took Mr Hu as a hostage. It's called hedging.


----------



## shag (14 July 2009)

i think i'd rather have 11.5 billion than hu and co, poor blokes can't be worth that much in organ value(break up value?).
i appologise in advance.


----------



## Miner (14 July 2009)

shag said:


> i think i'd rather have 11.5 billion than hu and co, poor blokes can't be worth that much in organ value(break up value?).
> i appologise in advance.




Hi Shag

NO doubt you could be very astute as a trader but your comments on Mr Hu adn reference to organ value appeared to be words chosen very poorly and  more sounding like your nick name. 
No apology for my comment however and I am not of the same origin of Mr Hu. If you really consider when your comments are  read by any member of Mr Hu's family or Chinese Australian fraternity. how they feel about it.


Thanks for understanding


----------



## shag (14 July 2009)

fair enough.
maybe the point should be china can be a very dangerous country for some people.
but then its their country and a pragmatic solution maybe in their eyes(organ re-use for want of better words). as an engineer i consider that side too, as repulsive as it appears.
sadly i think rio and the australian government will think the same re the austalian/sino bigger picture. i am waiting for some sort of excuse to offer at least one of them as sacrificial lamb to shut this matter down.
all i know is once nz's FTA  came near, all talk of human rights abuses went right out the door. plus last years fonterra saga showed the problems that can occur there very quickly.

i often just ask a mate when i want some advice on sino issues, he exposed last year how they can be very effective, quick(and relatively fair-depending on the view you hold towards capital punishment etc) at cleaning up issues compared to the west, like the probable death penalties for at least some of the san lu managers.

in any event, we will see what rudd is really made of.

we trade with the country, many of us own mining stocks in relation to this trade, does that make us compliant(to some degree) in respect of some of the less attractive sides to china?

i know i'm not astute as the stock market goes, too sloppy, just an interest.
cheers.


----------



## disarray (14 July 2009)

> The person also said if Rudd would have reacted slightly quicker if the Rio Executive was of an English Ancestory than a Chinese ancestory.




the chinese don't give a stuff about dual nationality or passports or whatever. they consider Hu chinese so were happy to snatch him. i can't really see white fellas bumbling around in china making the required "gestures" to effectively bribe people anyway. things like this are more like a tea ceremony than a changing of briefcases in a dark alley and would need to be facilitated by someone "in the know" culturally. different world, different mindset, different styles, corrupt as hell to us but standard practice there.

unless it suits them to change the practice of course. the chinese are flexible like that


----------



## Calliope (14 July 2009)

Now would be a good time for Rudd to agree to accept the 17 Uighars  from Guantanamo that Obama wants us to give asylum to. The Chinese want them sent back to China so they can shoot them. 

A gesture like that might give them some respect for the guy, whom they now consider a running dog.


----------



## Miner (14 July 2009)

Calliope said:


> Now would be a good time for Rudd to agree to accept the 17 Uighars  from Guantanamo that Obama wants us to give asylum to. The Chinese want them sent back to China so they can shoot them.
> 
> A gesture like that might give them some respect for the guy, whom they now consider a running dog.




slight extension of what you said to reduce tension here.

What about Rudd takes Mr Hu in exchange of 27-year-old Australian beauty therapist Schapelle Corby who is in Indonesian Jail  ? She will entertain them nicely in China and could enhance business for Rio too. 

Then Rudd brings back Mr Hu to Australia. Big political gain. 

To compensate Indonesian loss he could then offer Mr Turnbull in exchange  who is destined to be a better joker than any one so far Australia seen and making spinster lawyer Ms Julie Bishop to glory the opposition leader's chair.

*I do not think the above action will be more  complex than calling on the acting Chinese Ambassador  (not even the full timer one) in Australia repeatedly with no bite but light barking *?


----------



## matty2.0 (14 July 2009)

Miner said:


> slight extension of what you said to reduce tension here.
> 
> What about Rudd takes Mr Hu in exchange of 27-year-old Australian beauty therapist Schapelle Corby who is in Indonesian Jail  ? She will entertain them nicely in China and could enhance business for Rio too.
> 
> ...




Geez ... that's out of character, a complete 180 degree turn considering what you said earlier:

_Hi Shag

NO doubt you could be very astute as a trader but your comments on Mr Hu adn reference to organ value appeared to be words chosen very poorly and more sounding like your nick name.
No apology for my comment however and I am not of the same origin of Mr Hu. If you really consider when your comments are read by any member of Mr Hu's family or Chinese Australian fraternity. how they feel about it.
Thanks for understanding _

Now ... you're just as bad as Shag aren't you? 
Considering your grammar is off I have a hunch that you are of the same origin as our man Hu.


----------



## Calliope (14 July 2009)

matty2.0 said:


> Geez ... that's out of character, a complete 180 degree turn considering what you said earlier




I disagree. Miner has exhibited a good example of lateral thinking. He has also summed up our leaders exactly with *no bite but light barking.*


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (15 July 2009)

According to the SMH this morning Rudd and Smith have finally had some backbone inserted into their cavities and are speaking to the Chinese about Steven Hu.

Are holy now politicians parliament in?

http://www.smh.com.au/national/pm-raises-rio-case-with-beijing-20090714-dk56.html


----------



## Calliope (15 July 2009)

Simon Crean was quite indignant at the suggestion that the official he talked to about Hu was No.16 in the Shanghai provincial hierarchy. The truth is he said, was that the guy he spoke to was No. 3 on some other list of officials who are allowed to talk to foreigners.

Perhaps there is a list of those who tell the truth to foreigners. No one is anxious to get on this list.


----------



## matty2.0 (15 July 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Rudd and Smith have finally had some backbone inserted into their cavities and are speaking to the Chinese about *Steven *Hu.
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/national/pm-raises-rio-case-with-beijing-20090714-dk56.html
> 
> *Are holy now politicians parliament in?*




Steven who is, right name not sure ... yes Stern holy cow?


----------



## Miner (18 July 2009)

matty2.0 said:


> Geez ... that's out of character, a complete 180 degree turn considering what you said earlier:
> 
> _Hi Shag
> 
> ...




Dear Goez

It is always interesting to see when some one misses the content and tries to attack on side line. 
My friend let us talk on the point.

This Forum is not a forum for English students or pedagogs. If it was so then I would have been more focused on my grammar, syntax, spelling, proverb - you name it. 

Let us not spoil the main issue as well. For clarification I am not of the same origin as Mr Hu or a person of Chinese origin.  However I am a migrant Australian like you are. It is the aboriginals who are original Australians. The  rest of us have migrated in different forms - some came by ship, some by boat, some were sent to stay here and some came by plane to work and preferred to adopt as Australian.  How many Europians really can read or write good English ?

People in this forum use all sort of wrongly constituted sentence, paragraphs, metaphor, wrong spelling (please check your spelling  too and do not call it TYPO ), tense, grammar. Because that is not the focus in this forum but STOCKS AND related content, issue and some way to make money for all of us (for Joe as well through buying of the advertiser products) . 

So instead of  deviating from the issue like Mr Rudd and Mr Turnbull are trying please do not take  shelter against my grammar just because I was lazy.

Issue is :* Our so called political leaders are behaving as lame duck* instead of  resolving the issue with an Australian Citizen. If Mr Hu was bribing the Chinese then he is as glorious as Qld Minister or Alan Bond or many others to be given the opportunity to contest before sent to jail. Although  he will not be the only one to bribe Chinese Officials. Who does not bribe to do business in Asia, Indonesia, PNG, Africa or Russia  ?  Does every one think there was all above board to get Sydney as our Olympic venue ? 

How many of us really miss the opportunity to get work done in cash by the Tradies and avoid GST ?

I only urge that  God's sake let us not try to  let the country down against muscle of Chinese. 

We all know Chinese are powerful and the whole Austraian economy is looking for some upside with Chinese wealth. But we need to consider how far are we going to relax our tolerance and succum to the bullying tactics ? 


With Shag - I think we got sorted in this forum so  no need to bring that point here.


Thanks any way for forcing me to write a long story - you were successful in that context any way


----------



## Miner (18 July 2009)

Calliope said:


> I disagree. Miner has exhibited a good example of lateral thinking. He has also summed up our leaders exactly with *no bite but light barking.*



 Thanks Calliope to rise with the occasion for national interest


----------



## trainspotter (18 July 2009)

I'm still laughing at the Schapelle Corby exchange programme with China !! LOLOLOL


----------



## CanOz (19 July 2009)

*Re: Are all business cows in China are holy?*



Glen48 said:


> Here is a bit of Chinese logic, the way to save money on piling's and as they are underground no one will know.




This was in Shanghai too. Nobody will buy the rest of the apartments so they will need to demolish them. The developer will go bankrupt and the workers and suppliers will get zilch....all to save a few Yuan.

CanOz


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (19 July 2009)

Oscar Wilde the great Irish wit once said



> "I find it harder and harder every day to live up to my blue china."




Most of us know sfa about China.

I do know sfa about that empire.

It is a hidden enigmatic country.

gg


----------



## Calliope (19 July 2009)

Miner, 

The message that china is sending us is that they don't give a toss whether we accept their values or not. Their attitude is that we either accept our status as  a running dog or look elsewhere for a sugar daddy.

We have no choice, but to roll over.


----------



## Miner (19 July 2009)

Calliope said:


> Miner,
> 
> The message that china is sending us is that they don't give a toss whether we accept their values or not. Their attitude is that we either accept our status as  a running dog or look elsewhere for a sugar daddy.
> 
> We have no choice, but to roll over.




Hi Calliope

That is so true and your statement is worthy of few billions.
It is good to accept this harrsh reality and then we should at least support Australian interest like rejection of Chinalco deal. When Paul Keating states that trust China - means so ridiculous to me and echoing your statement

Cheers


----------



## Calliope (20 July 2009)

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25805431-7583,00.html

From The Australian



> What Hu's family must have thought of Australia's Foreign Minister, Stephen Smith, rushing off to a meeting of non-aligned nations in Cairo in the middle of the increasingly ugly diplomatic stand-off with China over their husband and father can only be imagined.
> 
> But nothing was deterring Smith, or more properly Rudd. Forget Hu. Smith was dispatched to Cairo with one preconditioned riding instruction: to lobby UN members at the non-aligned conference for votes in Rudd's bid to secure his Security Council seat.
> 
> In Rudd's foreign policy firmament, Hu apparently came a distant second to the UNSC priority. Smith was left to remain in touch with the Australian public regarding the fate of one of its own via Sky News.


----------



## Buckeroo (20 July 2009)

Calliope said:


> http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25805431-7583,00.html
> 
> From The Australian




How depressing!

I'm beginning to believe maybe we would be better off being a state of China than have Krudd & his band of yesmarmy men running the country. 

Swan, Smith, Garret & all the other TV personalities that make up the government, none have any sense!!

Cheers


----------



## Calliope (21 July 2009)

I'm afraid that Mr Hu is now the forgotten  man. Mr Rudd can avoid the problem and get more mileage by putting on his phoney sad look and delivering his rehearsed homilies in funereal tones over the deaths of three Australians in Jakarta and one in Afghanistan.


----------



## Miner (21 July 2009)

Calliope said:


> I'm afraid that Mr Hu is now the forgotten  man. Mr Rudd can avoid the problem and get more mileage by putting on his phoney sad look and delivering his rehearsed homilies in funereal tones over the deaths of three Australians in Jakarta and one in Afghanistan.




Probably Mr Rudd is taking the holy stand after meeting His Holiness in Vatican : 'who gives rats for Mr Hu if he lives or goes to concentration camp in China ? 

Look at us - we sacrificed our precious young blood in war where there was no material gain from Afganistan excepting to be Sheriff for Uncle Sam. At least sacrifice of Mr Hu will bring billions of dollars to Australian Fund"

(Hope my spellings are correct now if not the grammar )


----------



## Miner (24 July 2009)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/23/2634561.htm?section=justin

Poor Mr Hu - you were unlucky to be caught since you worked for Rio and they ditched Chinese in Chinalco deal. But see your friends - all are same


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (24 November 2009)

Let us not forget Mr.Hu languishing in a Chinese gaol.

Anyone got his address so that we can send him Christmas cards of support?

gg


----------

