# Does anyone actually day trade the ASX?



## Kingofclubz (3 October 2016)

Hi All,

I am currently full swing In studying day trading, though all of my reference material is based on the US Markets.

With the ASX so illiquid in comparison, does anyone actually day trade this market? (Net losers, winners doesn't matter)

 If so I would LOVE to connect with someone and throw some questions to them.

Thanks and GLTA,

- The New Guy.


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## tech/a (3 October 2016)

Kingofclubz said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am currently full swing In studying day trading, though all of my reference material is based on the US Markets.
> 
> ...




Liquidity is king

That's why the hang seng Dax and FTSE are preferred.


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## Wysiwyg (3 October 2016)

Kingofclubz said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am currently full swing In studying day trading, though all of my reference material is based on the US Markets.



Hello. Could you direct me to the U.S. based material you refer to please?


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## skc (3 October 2016)

Kingofclubz said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am currently full swing In studying day trading, though all of my reference material is based on the US Markets.
> 
> ...




Most ASX equity traders I know trade a range of timeframes, including intraday trading. There are phases of the market where day trading will work well... like during reporting season, big macro news days etc. But there are other periods where opportunities are limited - that's why a suite of strategies and timeframes is typically used by a full time trader.

Liquidity is important no doubt and is probably true that it is lower than US markets in comparison. But imo it's sufficient in most instances for someone starting out. BHP trades $20-30m a day and I'd be surprised if a sole trader find that to be constraining. A junior mining with a good drill hole can attract >$5m of value which again should be enough for most people.

The bigger issue with ASX stock is the high commission charge (especially for retail traders) and the large spread in the <$2 stocks. These make profitable day trading much more difficult. The lack of shorting availability, even with the use of CFDs, can also be an issue. 

It all depends what you are trying to do. My opinion is that, making a living from *solely *day trading the ASX is certainly possible, but may not be the best use of your resources (time, capital and trading skill) during the quieter periods.


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## Kingofclubz (3 October 2016)

Wysiwyg said:


> Hello. Could you direct me to the U.S. based material you refer to please?




Studying Material by Tim Sykes, Tim Grittani, Nathan Michaud, list goes on.

I'm not saying that strategies and concepts don't work in Aussie Market obviously, But with liquidity as king, what realistic returns are competent traders making on our local markets?

I hope I'm wrong and day traders in AUS are making solid returns, if so Id like to know but I'm not seeing the volatility or volume that the bigger playgrounds provide.


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## minwa (3 October 2016)

Kingofclubz said:


> Studying Material by Tim Sykes, Tim Grittani, Nathan Michaud, list goes on.




Have you done any research on them ? Tim Sykes is one of the biggest clown on the internet on "trading gurus". The latter 2 are his students - now turned "guru" selling services. Think about it..if Tim Syke's stuff works why do a lot of students turn into gurus selling trading services in a crowded penny stock market.


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## Kingofclubz (3 October 2016)

minwa said:


> Have you done any research on them ? Tim Sykes is one of the biggest clown on the internet on "trading gurus". The latter 2 are his students - now turned "guru" selling services. Think about it..if Tim Syke's stuff works why do a lot of students turn into gurus selling trading services in a crowded penny stock market.




You may be absolutely right, What have your findings been on Tim Sykes and the rest that contradict their claims? I am only a student so naturally I am very green, there is a high probability that I'm learning from the wrong sources which If I want to avoid at all costs. I fundamentally come from a Poker playing background and almost every attribute to success that is being taught in the stock markets is identical to that of long term poker playing success. Liquidity, Variance, Volatility, Bankroll Management, Sample sizes to accurately determine skill Vs short term luck factors, Risk to Reward ratios, fundamental + Technical Analysis.... everything. 

Please share where you would suggest a newcomer focus his/her attention as my only nemesis with this learning curve is time itself.


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## Wysiwyg (3 October 2016)

Kingofclubz said:


> Studying Material by Tim Sykes, Tim Grittani, Nathan Michaud, list goes on.



Yeah I like the Tim Grittani tubes. Not a hype man and walks through his trade thoughts. A natural temperament for the game and always open to improvement.


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## minwa (3 October 2016)

Kingofclubz said:


> You may be absolutely right, What have your findings been on Tim Sykes and the rest that contradict their claims? I am only a student so naturally I am very green, there is a high probability that I'm learning from the wrong sources which If I want to avoid at all costs. I fundamentally come from a Poker playing background and almost every attribute to success that is being taught in the stock markets is identical to that of long term poker playing success. Liquidity, Variance, Volatility, Bankroll Management, Sample sizes to accurately determine skill Vs short term luck factors, Risk to Reward ratios, fundamental + Technical Analysis.... everything.
> 
> Please share where you would suggest a newcomer focus his/her attention as my only nemesis with this learning curve is time itself.




Google Tim Sykes scam and you will find many pages dedicated to exposing him. I personally don't doubt he's made money trading - but he's now in the business of selling the dream that anyone can do it which is absolutely not the case especially in penny stocks. 




He makes fake images of himself to show that he's living a fake flashy lifestyle. Does someone who is really successful need to fake stuff ?  

Quite a few "where to begin" threads on the forum check them out if you want people's recommendation on where to begin.


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## Kingofclubz (3 October 2016)

minwa said:


> Google Tim Sykes scam and you will find many pages dedicated to exposing him. I personally don't doubt he's made money trading - but he's now in the business of selling the dream that anyone can do it which is absolutely not the case especially in penny stocks.
> 
> View attachment 68313
> 
> ...




I already explored the Tim Sykes scam website and found that it was actually PRO Tim Sykes oddly enough if you go through it. I wasn't able to find anything debunking him or his gurus when I first heard about him, for this reason I started paying attention.

There is so much noise when it comes to retail finance, and yes teaching may be more lucrative then actually doing. This is usually a sign that the skills being taught are becoming harder and harder to make an edge from, hence the most experienced transition to teaching the masses.

Also that photo doesn't tell me anything, either one of those images could be the source of photo shopping depending on the agenda.


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## minwa (3 October 2016)

Kingofclubz said:


> I already explored the Tim Sykes scam website and found that it was actually PRO Tim Sykes oddly enough if you go through it. I wasn't able to find anything debunking him or his gurus when I first heard about him, for this reason I started paying attention.
> 
> There is so much noise when it comes to retail finance, and yes teaching may be more lucrative then actually doing. This is usually a sign that the skills being taught are becoming harder and harder to make an edge from, hence the most experienced transition to teaching the masses.
> 
> Also that photo doesn't tell me anything, either one of those images could be the source of photo shopping depending on the agenda.




OK if you've done the research and are happy with it then all the best. Many don't do the research at the very least. 

The photo is 2 photos posted by Sykes on his social media. One (or both) is faked. Why fake if you're a multi millionaire is the question on people's minds.


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## Gringotts Bank (3 October 2016)

Kingofclubz said:


> I already explored the Tim Sykes scam website and found that it was actually PRO Tim Sykes oddly enough if you go through it. I wasn't able to find anything debunking him or his gurus when I first heard about him, for this reason I started paying attention.
> 
> There is so much noise when it comes to retail finance, and yes teaching may be more lucrative then actually doing. This is usually a sign that the skills being taught are becoming harder and harder to make an edge from, hence the most experienced transition to teaching the masses.
> 
> Also that photo doesn't tell me anything, either one of those images could be the source of photo shopping depending on the agenda.




Sykes does things that we can't replicate here.  Basically he shorts over-hyped speccies.  I believe he has done extremely well, but is also a very high pressure salesman.  Not for me.  Success isn't something you can sell to others.


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## Quant (3 October 2016)

XJO/SPI/AUS200 is the best prospect to daytrade in australia imo  , stocks not so good . Indice can get good leverage , daily ATR is reliable ( 2016 100 period average ranges between 58 and 77 ) , Algo trading relatively easily . Liquidity not an issue with SPI doing around 40k contracts most days . I wouldnt even look at daytrading ASX listed stocks

just 30% of daily atr on 1 contract nets $500 , scale that up and its good


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## Kingofclubz (3 October 2016)

Quant said:


> I wouldnt even look at daytrading ASX listed stocks




This is what I was thinking. 

Is there any way around the $10k minimum balance due to open international brokerage accounts that actually have live intraday data/charts?

I called Commsec asking if they had a platform for international markets that showed live prices (Level 2 I believe it is referred as) and was told "refresh the page at the top of your browser when international trading page is open and it will show you the latest price, This is all we have". By her tone it didn't sound like she was joking.

Note: I understood very little of the rest.


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## Quant (3 October 2016)

Kingofclubz said:


> This is what I was thinking.
> 
> Is there any way around the $10k minimum balance due to open international brokerage accounts that actually have live intraday data/charts?
> 
> ...




HMM if you understood little of that i think you need a tad more education tbh 

IG cfd account probably your best bet with that limited account size


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## Habakkuk (3 October 2016)

Kingofclubz said:


> This is what I was thinking.
> 
> Is there any way around the $10k minimum balance due to open international brokerage accounts that actually have live intraday data/charts?
> 
> ...





This is quite amusing. You don't think there is enough liquidity for day trading on the ASX and you want to know where you can open an account with less than $10,000


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## minwa (3 October 2016)

Habakkuk said:


> This is quite amusing. You don't think there is enough liquidity for day trading on the ASX and you want to know where you can open an account with less than $10,000




Well Sykes did it with a few thousand to millions


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## Kingofclubz (3 October 2016)

Habakkuk said:


> This is quite amusing. You don't think there is enough liquidity for day trading on the ASX and you want to know where you can open an account with less than $10,000




Yes, although you may have misunderstood my post. I want to be able to view live intraday price action on US markets and with no intention of trading yet I'm querying if options are available where I don't need to fund an international account with most wanting minimum balances. IB for eg requires $10k.


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## Quant (3 October 2016)

Kingofclubz said:


> Yes, although you may have misunderstood my post. I want to be able to view live intraday price action on US markets and with no intention of trading yet I'm querying if options are available where I don't need to fund an international account with most wanting minimum balances. IB for eg requires $10k.




http://au.investing.com/equities/apple-computer-inc , this site does live nasdaq stock charts in realtime if thats all you want


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## CanOz (3 October 2016)

SKC Says
:iagree:


I looked at day-trading ASX equities, but the learning curve for me to switch from index futures to equities in day time frame was massive. SKC can correct me if i'm wrong but as a pro, he's spends more than 12 hours a day on that and a significant portion is fundamental research. 

If you're really interested in Day-trading ASX equities, then I'd PM SKC. He would have the most experience of anyone i know in the field. He is a true professional and a gentleman

CanOz


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## Kingofclubz (3 October 2016)

Quant said:


> http://au.investing.com/equities/apple-computer-inc , this site does live nasdaq stock charts in realtime if thats all you want




lol @ CFD.

Thanks for the link.


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## Habakkuk (3 October 2016)

Kingofclubz said:


> Yes, although you may have misunderstood my post. I want to be able to view live intraday price action on US markets and with no intention of trading yet I'm querying if options are available where I don't need to fund an international account with most wanting minimum balances. IB for eg requires $10k.




Yes, I have misunderstood. It's a bit confusing for me. You're asking about day trading the ASX, but because of perceived poor liquidity, you have to trade US stocks. You don't mind staying up all night, presumably.

As for live data you would have to pay for it monthly if you only "look" and don't trade. It's typically $60-80 for ASX from most brokers. I don't know about US data, but similar pricing could be expected. A little research would be required.


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## Kingofclubz (3 October 2016)

Habakkuk said:


> Yes, I have misunderstood. It's a bit confusing for me. You're asking about day trading the ASX, but because of perceived poor liquidity, you have to trade US stocks. You don't mind staying up all night, presumably.
> 
> As for live data you would have to pay for it monthly if you only "look" and don't trade. It's typically $60-80 for ASX from most brokers. I don't know about US data, but similar pricing could be expected. A little research would be required.




Yeah this I what I found, without X amount of trades per month there is a fee associated.

Do you day trade the AU markets? If I am mistaken with my assumptions let me know.

Anything that moves with decent degree of % gain either has almost no volume or  is trade halted before it even has a chance to run. Just what I have observed.


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## Habakkuk (3 October 2016)

Kingofclubz said:


> Yeah this I what I found, without X amount of trades per month there is a fee associated.




Did you expect it for free?




> Do you day trade the AU markets?




Yes, but not all that successfully.




> Anything that moves with decent degree of % gain either has almost no volume or  is trade halted before it even has a chance to run. Just what I have observed.





Where did you observe that?
What is 'decent degree of % gain' ?
How much is 'almost no volume' ?
trade halted before it even has a chance to run ?? some sort of conspiracy, perhaps, to prevent you from making a profit?

I'd like to hear your answers.


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## Kingofclubz (3 October 2016)

Habakkuk said:


> Did you expect it for free?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Free would be nice.

I observed my findings whilst visiting a remote village just west of Somalia where I recently travelled to see a late uncle of mine who left me $US100 million inheritance. He whispered on his final breathe that he amassed his fortune by never accepting anything free and always going with his emotions.


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## Quant (3 October 2016)

Kingofclubz said:


> Free would be nice.
> 
> I observed my findings whilst visiting a remote village just west of Somalia where I recently travelled to see a late uncle of mine who left me $US100 million inheritance. He whispered on his final breathe that he amassed his fortune by never accepting anything free and always going with his emotions.




Didnt know the circus was in town  Clowns are pretty funny


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## Wysiwyg (3 October 2016)

Kingofclubz said:


> I hope I'm wrong and day traders in AUS are making solid returns, if so Id like to know but *I'm not seeing the volatility or volume that the bigger playgrounds provide.*



I am not a day trader in the true context but I have an appetite for learning. What size daily turnover do you need to participate?


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## Roller_1 (3 October 2016)

I think this site has free intra day US equity quotes, check it out

https://technicianapp.com/


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## Joules MM1 (3 October 2016)

Does anyone actually day trade the ASX? 

as in; trade the stock ASX, trade the spi, trade a front month contract asx200, xjo ......wot, exactly?

nothing like vague, huh


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## Kingofclubz (3 October 2016)

Wysiwyg said:


> I am not a day trader in the true context but I have an appetite for learning. What size daily turnover do you need to participate?




All relative to position size and the goal of the trade I'd imagine.


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## Gee (25 December 2016)

I've been looking into this for a couple of months and have been trading mainly the bank stocks. I'm range trading mainly, so have a number of longs and shorts on at the same time. At the moment I trade with IG who charge $8 per trade which is not bad, but does make things harder. I've only been trading smallish numbers while trying out the platform but am looking to scale up in the new year. Would be interested in any feedback on strategy or alternative brokers with lower costs etc. If there's little market movement (quite common) I'll sometimes have a little side bet on the ASX index.


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## Quant (25 December 2016)

if you trade frequently and size intraday something like this may be your best bet 

"
Bulking refers to multiple trades in the same stock on any one day, all being aggregated to the one confirmation note. Any number of orders can be entered any number of times during the day, with only two notes being produced (one Buy and one Sell) and the brokerage charged based on the total value of each note "

also IG doesnt allow you to be in the dom so you get screwed on the spread , over a year this adds up if you trade frequently 

https://www.amscot.com.au/Rates

And yes i daytrade aus200/xjo/spi


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## Triathlete (25 December 2016)

Try..... TD365.......  $5 E/W up to around 7K then % above this. I have been using for a few months seem okay.Have also withdrawn $ from account and no problems as yet.


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## Gee (25 December 2016)

Quant said:


> also IG doesnt allow you to be in the dom so you get screwed on the spread , over a year this adds up if you trade frequently
> 
> https://www.amscot.com.au/Rates
> 
> And yes i daytrade aus200/xjo/spi




Thanks @Quant with amscot, I'm assuming you have to buy the stock as opposed to cfd? Also, what is "in the dom"? Thanks


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