# Debt collector is chasing me...



## ausnick87 (3 January 2012)

Ok, so back in 08' I racked up a 6k credit card debt with ANZ... it was entirely my own fault.

Anyways, I was overseas for about 9 months, during this time I didn't contact ANZ and by the time I did call them to discuss the debt it had already been sold to Baycorp...  4 years later I get a call from Baycorp who are demanding I pay this debt (which is now 7.5k @ 9% interest). 

I tell them the truth, I'm currently a full-time uni student who's also enrolled in tafe...living off centrelink benefits. I can barely afford to make ends meet at present let alone pay off this debt, but what can I do? 

They told me to ask my friends/family for a loan... when I said that's not an option she threatened to take legal action against me... Argh !  

I know I'm an idiot for digging myself into this hole but would appreciate any advice...


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## tech/a (3 January 2012)

ausnick87 said:


> Ok, so back in 08' I racked up a 6k credit card debt with ANZ... it was entirely my own fault.
> 
> Anyways, I was overseas for about 9 months, during this time I didn't contact ANZ and by the time I did call them to discuss the debt it had already been sold to Baycorp...  4 years later I get a call from Baycorp who are demanding I pay this debt (which is now 7.5k @ 11% interest).
> 
> ...




Firstly don't stress
Baycorp have the problem ( they need to get their 7.5k out of you)

Give them a written offer of $ 10/ week or whatever you can afford.
If they don't accept then let them take you to court.
Arm yourself with your financial situation in a concise easy to read report and submit to the magistrate.
Suggest that you can afford x / week.

Truth is if you stop paying they have to take you back to court to enforce resumption of payments--- of course you would present your case that the "x" you were paying was too much fir you to handle so perhaps the same amount each month?.

Or

You could find some $$s somewhere and offer of say $1500 as full and final payment as it's someone else's money you'll have to arrange a weekly payment--- obviously
If they don't accept then do as suggested above.

Unfortunately the law isn't able to get blood out of a stone.
I've been to court with many stones!


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## inq (3 January 2012)

Suffer the consequences.

Cut back on Tafe/Uni, get a job, pay off your debt. If you don't want to cut back on either, start getting used to 4 hours sleep a night.

If you think this is inconvenient to you, harden up. You made mistakes, were inconvenient to ANZ etc. 

Time to take responsibility and do what you need to do, otherwise your credit score will be raped which can mean negative consequences in the future.


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## tech/a (3 January 2012)

> Time to take responsibility and do what you need to do, otherwise your credit score will be raped which can mean negative consequences in the future.




Already stuffed I'd say


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## LostMyShirt (3 January 2012)

I hope you're prepped for a bad credit rating. You CAN go bankrupt as a LAST RESORT!

I recently just got out of insolvency of 35K, by making a written offer to ITSA of 13K. If they didn't accept we threatened to remain insolvent until the pre-designated release date. Needless to say, they took the offer.

There is no harm in harsh negotiations. They need money our of you, so try to control the situation.


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## sptrawler (3 January 2012)

Spot on answer tech/a.


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## Tyler Durden (3 January 2012)

tech/a said:


> Firstly don't stress
> Baycorp have the problem ( they need to get their 7.5k out of you)




lol, I love the way you put that 



inq said:


> Suffer the consequences.
> 
> Cut back on Tafe/Uni, get a job, pay off your debt. If you don't want to cut back on either, start getting used to 4 hours sleep a night.
> 
> ...




On a moral point of view I'd agree, but I suppose it's good to consider other options.

I know his credit rating may be stuffed, but how about getting a credit card and doing a balance transfer with 0% interest for 6 months? If that doesn't work, I'd seriously consider asking friends for a loan of $3000-4000 to pay off Baycorp and then paying off friends slowly.


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## tech/a (3 January 2012)

Tyler Durden said:


> lol, I love the way you put that
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Whatever you negotiate with Baycorp
*Make sure clearing your credit record is included.*
Get EVERYTHING in writing.


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## Julia (3 January 2012)

Tyler Durden said:


> I know his credit rating may be stuffed, but how about getting a credit card and doing a balance transfer with 0% interest for 6 months? If that doesn't work, I'd seriously consider asking friends for a loan of $3000-4000 to pay off Baycorp and then paying off friends slowly.



That's the last thing the OP should be doing IMO.  Never involve friends in either borrowing or lending.  

Apart from the almost inevitable eventual falling out over such an arrangement, why on earth should any friend feel obliged to help someone who has ignored his responsibilities?

As already suggested, accept the reality that the debt belongs to you and make some arrangements to pay it off over however many years it takes.


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## Starcraftmazter (4 January 2012)

Tyler Durden said:


> I know his credit rating may be stuffed, but how about getting a credit card and doing a balance transfer with 0% interest for 6 months?




It's a bit hard (or damn well near impossible) to get any sort of credit as a student on centrelink, and certainly not for 7.5k. Otherwise that would be a pretty sweet idea, just rinse and repeat every 6 months until you can pay the debt 

Perhaps if you have anything worth 10k or so to offer as collateral...


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## burglar (4 January 2012)

There is no way that Baycorp paid $6000 to ANZ to take over your debt.


So morally, I may agree with the talking Duck!!

On the other hand, you'll want to sleep at night, so do what's right!


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## Junior (4 January 2012)

inq said:


> Suffer the consequences.
> 
> Cut back on Tafe/Uni, get a job, pay off your debt. If you don't want to cut back on either, start getting used to 4 hours sleep a night.
> 
> ...




Strongly disagree with the above.

Strongly agree with tech/a's suggestions.

You're dealing with a multi-billion dollar faceless organisation.  They have no morals, so you should have no morals dealing with them, it's strictly business and negotiating the best possible outcome for yourself.

Clear the debt as cheaply as possible, whilst trying to keep your credit rating under control.

In the meantime continue and complete your studies.  Your credit rating will repair over time, but it's best to avoid a part X or bankruptcy if possible....especially for a relatively insignificant amount of money.


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## suhm (4 January 2012)

While personally I believe that you should pay off your debt, you racked it up so it is your responsibility I don't think you should be leaving your training to do so. It is always difficult to start again.

Baycorp bought your debt for cents in the dollar, not sure of the exact rate they pay but the carrying value of CCP PDLs is 136.6m with a face value of $3.3bn, different debt types cost different amounts but it cost them about 4-5c in the dollar for your debt.

Contact Baycorp and negotiate a payment arrangement, it saves them costs as they don't need to harass you for the debt and it is still profitable for them even if they don't collect the full amount.

Some moron lived in my apartment previously and has a debt which Baycorp is trying to collect and I keep getting letters from baycorp to chase up his debt, I probably should contact them but I throw the letters away instead.

If the debt is small they usually give up after awhile and your credit score would already be cactus but if you want to have credit in the future doing the right thing now would count.

What you end up doing is up to you but it is how we act when other people are not around to see which shows the quality of the man.


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## pilots (4 January 2012)

burglar said:


> There is no way that Baycorp paid $6000 to ANZ to take over your debt.
> 
> 
> So morally, I may agree with the talking Duck!!
> ...




I have a friend working for a debt collector, they charge 15 to 20% of all they can collect, the bank gives the bad debts to the collectors and hopes for the best.


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## ausnick87 (4 January 2012)

Thanks for the replies everyone. They have been helpful.

I might try and threaten the debt collector with bankruptcy and see if the 7.5k debt could be be paid off $1500... would that demand be realistic do you think?


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## matthewdean (4 January 2012)

ausnick87 said:


> Thanks for the replies everyone. They have been helpful.
> 
> I might try and threaten the debt collector with bankruptcy and see if the 7.5k debt could be be paid off $1500... would that demand be realistic do you think?




Let us know how you get along...

Google the Straw man theory for absolute desperate measures, I've only ever touched on the surface of it but I’ve read of some similar situations to your own.


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## Bonk (4 January 2012)

I used to be a debt collect administrator with the big boy in town . No need to threaten anything . Just talk ,talk ,talk ..... and get advice from organizations around [social] . The goal for you is to get rid of the debt as it will haunt you for the rest of time . When you go to do anything in life it pops up and you have a problem . If you fail to respond over time the bailiff will seek you out and the result could be misery.


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## Calliope (4 January 2012)

It is strange that inq is the only one to suggest that you get a job and pay your debts. This would benefit you *and the taxpayer.* You won't be missed at the Uni or TAFE where you are probably only doing Mickey Mouse courses anyway.


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## Chasero (4 January 2012)

inq said:


> Suffer the consequences.
> 
> Cut back on Tafe/Uni, get a job, pay off your debt. If you don't want to cut back on either, start getting used to 4 hours sleep a night.
> 
> ...




I actually agree with ^

If your family can't give you a loan, I'd try to fit in part time work with full time uni/tafe.

If you can't, I'd suggest maybe taking next semester off to work to try and pay off the debt. (unless you are nearly finished your course)

How far are you from looking for work? e.g. if this is your last yr, I strongly suggest you start job hunting anyway.


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## Knobby22 (4 January 2012)

Come on guys, the debt collector gets the loan for a cut rate, the bank has already written it off and on sold it.

There is great advice on this thread but leaving uni to get a job to pay off a debt is not good advice. As many have said, try and come to an arrangement. They would prefer part of the money now rather than long term so maybe you can strike a deal and pay off your Dad over time.

Don't worry about "the taxpayer". Your tiny amount will hardly effect the amount of tax payed by the debt collector.


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## Chasero (4 January 2012)

Knobby22 said:


> Come on guys, the debt collector gets the loan for a cut rate, the bank has already written it off and on sold it.
> 
> There is great advice on this thread but leaving uni to get a job to pay off a debt is not good advice. As many have said, try and come to an arrangement. They would prefer part of the money now rather than long term so maybe you can strike a deal and pay off your Dad over time.
> 
> Don't worry about "the taxpayer". Your tiny amount will hardly effect the amount of tax payed by the debt collector.




It's not leaving uni, it's postponing uni. Nothing wrong if he can get a job in his field before finishing uni, you can always come back to it.

Better yet, work part time and study full time, as others suggested.


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## Calliope (4 January 2012)

Knobby22 said:


> Don't worry about "the taxpayer". Your tiny amount will hardly effect the amount of tax payed by the debt collector.




I am a taxpayer. ausnick said he was living off centrelink benefits. He is 24/25 years old and has obviously been living off taxpayer funding for many years. Getting a job would benefit the taxpayer and also ausnick's self-esteem.


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## Junior (4 January 2012)

Calliope said:


> I am a taxpayer. ausnick said he was living off centrelink benefits. He is 24/25 years old and has obviously been living off taxpayer funding for many years. Getting a job would benefit the taxpayer and also ausnick's self-esteem.




Yeah fair points.  But why should he pay off the whole debt if he doesn't have to?? He could well pay it off in full and still have a crappy credit rating.  

Look after number 1 in these situations.  Screw ANZ and Baycorp, these organisations have no compassion and should be dealt with on a professional basis, not an emotional or moral one.  Tech/a has provided solid suggestions here.

If he finishes his studies and pursues a career then he'll pay plenty of tax, Austudy is there to provide support for full time students so why not utilise it.


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## SevenFX (4 January 2012)

Julia said:


> That's the last thing the OP should be doing IMO.  Never involve friends in either borrowing or lending.




I was about state the same thing, but Julia has put it very well.



> There is no harm in harsh negotiations. They need money our of you, so try to control the situation.




Also IMO there is harm in harsh negotiations, as the person you are dealing with can be rubbed up the wrong way OR compasionate to your situation and act favourably for the best outcome.

SevenFX


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## Julia (4 January 2012)

Calliope said:


> It is strange that inq is the only one to suggest that you get a job and pay your debts



I don't think that's quite true, Calliope.  Several of us have said the OP should come to some arrangement about paying off the debt over time.



Calliope said:


> I am a taxpayer. ausnick said he was living off centrelink benefits. He is 24/25 years old and has obviously been living off taxpayer funding for many years. Getting a job would benefit the taxpayer and also ausnick's self-esteem.



Agree.


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## Julia (4 January 2012)

Junior said:


> Yeah fair points.  But why should he pay off the whole debt if
> he doesn't have to??



Because he incurred the debt and it's his responsibility.   What a great society we'd have if we all engaged in the sort of philosophy you're espousing.



SevenFX said:


> Also IMO there is harm in harsh negotiations, as the person you are dealing with can be rubbed up the wrong way OR compasionate to your situation and act favourably for best outcome.
> SevenFX



Agree.   I'm blown away by the OP suggesting he should "threaten" anyone with anything.


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## Junior (4 January 2012)

Julia said:


> Because he incurred the debt and it's his responsibility.   What a great society we'd have if we all engaged in the sort of philosophy you're espousing.
> 
> 
> Agree.   I'm blown away by the OP suggesting he should "threaten" anyone with anything.




Julia, I would never suggest taking out a loan unless the intention is to fully repay the debt.  However the fact is he has made some mistakes and finds himself in the situation where the debt has been written off and sold to a debt collector, and no doubt he he has damaged his credit rating in the process.

I believe the best thing to do now is rationally work out the best way to rid oneself of this debt.... whether that means fully or partially repaying what is outstanding.

Owing a friend or individual money is very different to owing a large financial institution money IMO, and thus the decision as to whether or not to repay in full should take this into account.  If the debt isn't fully repaid there won't be any person or family harmed by this decision....it's business.


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## Junior (4 January 2012)

Additionally to the above, we're in a society where the banks will lend to individuals who shouldn't be lent to, for the banks' short term profit.  When they approved Ausnick's credit limit of $6,000 they would have done so knowing there was x% chance the debt would not be repaid, and this risk of the debt turning bad is factored in when determining the interest rates, fees and charges etc.

So I reiterate, the mistakes have been made, credit rating has been harmed, repay whichever amount is in *your *best interest to repay.

ANZ has already written it off and sold to Baycorp, they don't give a sh*t how much you repay.  Baycorp have purchased the debt for a fraction of it's total value.  Blindly repaying the whole amount isn't 'moral' in this situation, it's just not necessarily the smartest course of action.


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## Bonk (4 January 2012)

Why not go to the ANZ , and tell them the story why the debt happened . They most likely will sympathise with you and give a new loan to payout the debt . Good for banking and good for you......simple win win ~! The Euro-zone is the example to follow . Kick the can down the road ....


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## Calliope (4 January 2012)

Bonk said:


> Why not go to the ANZ , and tell them the story why the debt happened . They most likely will sympathise with you and give a new loan to payout the debt . Good for banking and good for you......simple win win ~! The Euro-zone is the example to follow . Kick the can down the road ....




It is fashionable now to max your credit card without any hope of repaying. It is also fashionable to deny that we are responsible for the consequences of our actions. Junior gives the two-finger salute to responsibility.

As Mark Steyn points out America leads the world on irresponsibility



> *At the end of 2011, America, like much of the rest of the Western world, has dug deeper into a cocoon of denial. Tens of millions of Americans remain unaware that this nation is broke - broker than any nation has ever been. A few days before Christmas, we sailed across the psychological Rubicon and joined the club of nations whose government debt now exceeds their total GDP. It barely raised a murmur - and those who took the trouble to address the issue noted complacently that our 100 per cent debt-to-GDP ratio is a mere two-thirds of Greece's*.




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-ring-in-the-new/story-e6frg6zo-1226234378092


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## OzWaveGuy (4 January 2012)

It's interesting to see the responses in this thread - almost none of them are near the mark. At the end of the day it's your decision on how to handle the alledged debt.

Two brief questions:
1. Do you have a contract with the debt collector? If not, then how can they say you owe them anything?
2. Are you sure you have a debt in the first place (as many in this thread assert)

Always remain in honor, by dishonor, you will be in default and liable. For example, ask the debt collector for the written contract with your wet ink signature to prove the debt. 

There are plenty of ways to handle this type of situation - ultimately it's up to you.


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## Macquack (4 January 2012)

Two babies at the new reduced rate of $5000 per kid will pay off the debt and you will still have enough left over to buy a big LCD television.


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## prawn_86 (4 January 2012)

OzWaveGuy said:


> It's interesting to see the responses in this thread - almost none of them are near the mark. At the end of the day it's your decision on how to handle the alledged debt.
> 
> Two brief questions:
> 1. Do you have a contract with the debt collector? If not, then how can they say you owe them anything?
> ...




OWG,

I read your posts with interest/bemusement. You talk some interesting legal theories yet you have never once gone into further detail or provided evidence that a case like this would actually win. If the OP did take it to court on the basis that he has no actual debt with Baycorp, why would the judge find in his favour? And how is he to stop his credit rating from being further effected?


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## Eager (4 January 2012)

The OP virtually stole $6k from the bank, then did a runner overseas.

I have a different suggestion. Maybe the debt should be repaid from his prison wages.


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## Calliope (4 January 2012)

Eager said:


> The OP virtually stole $6k from the bank, then did a runner overseas.
> 
> I have a different suggestion. Maybe the debt should be repaid from his prison wages.




I agree. Maxing your credit card with no capability or intention of paying it off should be a criminal offence.


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## prawn_86 (4 January 2012)

Calliope said:


> I agree. Maxing your credit card with no capability or intention of paying it off should be a criminal offence.




Should it also be a criminal offense to loan to people with no ability to pay it off?


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## sptrawler (4 January 2012)

Here is what happened to us(familly).
Son drove through a stop sign, it was hidden in an overgrown tree, the one in the centre of the road had already been flatened by a previous accident(huge accident intersection, has been completely reconfigured since).
He drove straight through, thinking it was a thorough fare a car on his left Tboned him.
To cut a long story short, the pile of crap that Tboned him was insured for agreed sum$14,000. Actual worth about $3,000 my son agreed to make payments( apprentice) after about two years he was offered a payout figure, much less than remaining, by the collection agency(he thought he was paying the insurance company). I personaly have not found honesty pays, it usually ends up being used against you and seems to be a misplaced proverb, that ends you in a lot of sh!#. Unfortunately.


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## Julia (4 January 2012)

Junior said:


> Owing a friend or individual money is very different to owing a large financial institution money IMO,



Why?   If you knowingly take on a debt it should be on the understanding that you will do the honourable thing and repay it as expected.
Imo it makes absolutely no difference whether the contract is with an individual or an institution.



> and thus the decision as to whether or not to repay in full should take this into account.  If the debt isn't fully repaid there won't be any person or family harmed by this decision....it's business.



It is not "business".  It's behaving amorally.  
If a society has no honour amongst its individuals and amongst individuals with institutions, we're on a sorry path to ignominy imo.




Macquack said:


> Two babies at the new reduced rate of $5000 per kid will pay off the debt and you will still have enough left over to buy a big LCD television.



  Truly funny, Macquack.


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## Julia (4 January 2012)

Junior said:


> Additionally to the above, we're in a society where the banks will lend to individuals who shouldn't be lent to, for the banks' short term profit.



This is an absolutely valid point, Junior.  It still, however, leaves the essential responsibility with the person who takes up the loan imo.
But yes, financial institutions needs to be far more discerning in their lending criteria.
(The Storm Financial thread is an extreme example of this.)


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## OzWaveGuy (4 January 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> OWG,
> 
> I read your posts with interest/bemusement. You talk some interesting legal theories yet you have never once gone into further detail or provided evidence that a case like this would actually win. If the OP did take it to court on the basis that he has no actual debt with Baycorp, why would the judge find in his favour? And how is he to stop his credit rating from being further effected?




Prawn, do you believe we shouldn't be asking questions? Do you assert that it would be wrong to ask for verified evidence of the actual debt?

Evidence - what specifically are you looking for? That debt collectors do write off debts? Dyor - there's so much information on the Internet esp around handling debt collectors the only thing to fear is fear itself.

The bank never loaned any money in the first place.


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## Solly (4 January 2012)

sptrawler said:


> Here is what happened to us(familly).
> Son drove through a stop sign, it was hidden in an overgrown tree, the one in the centre of the road had already been flatened by a previous accident(huge accident intersection, has been completely reconfigured since).
> He drove straight through, thinking it was a thorough fare a car on his left Tboned him.
> To cut a long story short, the pile of crap that Tboned him was insured for agreed sum$14,000. Actual worth about $3,000 my son agreed to make payments( apprentice) after about two years he was offered a payout figure, much less than remaining, by the collection agency(he thought he was paying the insurance company). I personaly have not found honesty pays, it usually ends up being used against you and seems to be a misplaced proverb, that ends you in a lot of sh!#. Unfortunately.




sptrawler Did you seek advice on this incident? From the brief you have given it is highly questionable that the liability lies with your Son travelling on this defective roadway.


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## sptrawler (4 January 2012)

Well we went to court, sat there for several hours listening to losers get off.
Then my sons turn, photo evidence, known blackspot(since changed completely, can't drive through).
He was told tough $#!t lost his license and fined. Therefore resultant insurance company claim. Which he accepted and agreed to payments, the court system appears to be geared towards finding people wrong who can afford or are willing to pay.
If they are losers let them off, it's a waste of time. IMO
I always brought up my kids to admit when they are wrong, society is now making me rue that decission.


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## Calliope (4 January 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> Should it also be a criminal offense to loan to people with no ability to pay it off?




In the cashless society everybody, including those who were never taught a sense of values, has credit cards. The Nanny State cannot protect idiots from using them stupidly.


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## Garpal Gumnut (5 January 2012)

ausnick87 said:


> Ok, so back in 08' I racked up a 6k credit card debt with ANZ... it was entirely my own fault.
> 
> Anyways, I was overseas for about 9 months, during this time I didn't contact ANZ and by the time I did call them to discuss the debt it had already been sold to Baycorp...  4 years later I get a call from Baycorp who are demanding I pay this debt (which is now 7.5k @ 9% interest).
> 
> ...




I believe six months in one of our Gaols would cure you, forever.

You are a leech upon the system which depends upon the honesty of the participants.

I more than dislike you, you putrid mass of debt.

I could not give a tosser as to your future, whether a court appearance or a visit from your local Bikie Club. The latter may serve justice better.

gg

gg


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## McLovin (5 January 2012)

Calliope said:


> In the cashless society everybody, including those who were never taught a sense of values, has credit cards. The Nanny State cannot protect idiots from using them stupidly.




I have debit cards and a charge card. 

When I was a kid, my grandfather would tell me the story about how when he was 7 his dad had gotten into debt and the repo men had come and taken all the furniture. On their front doorstep his Mum told him "never owe anyone anything". He never owed a cent in his life (he even paid for his house in full). I don't take it to that extreme but the story did stick with me.


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## Tink (5 January 2012)

I cant believe people that clock up these loans with no intention of paying them back 

What have you been doing for 4 years that you couldnt work this out beforehand?


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## Calliope (5 January 2012)

Tink said:


> I cant believe people that clock up these loans with no intention of paying them back
> 
> What have you been doing for 4 years that you couldnt work this out beforehand?




Bludging on the taxpayer.


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## prawn_86 (5 January 2012)

OzWaveGuy said:


> Prawn, do you believe we shouldn't be asking questions? Do you assert that it would be wrong to ask for verified evidence of the actual debt?
> 
> Evidence - what specifically are you looking for? That debt collectors do write off debts? Dyor - there's so much information on the Internet esp around handling debt collectors the only thing to fear is fear itself.
> 
> The bank never loaned any money in the first place.




The more questions the better i say, hence why i am asking you.

Of course debt collectors write off loans, that is what the OP has been encouraged to try and acheive.

What i am after is for evidence that your legal theories actually work in court. IE - If you went to court against a bank and said "oh you never actually loaned me any money" how could you actually win that case? It sounds plausible in theory i just dont see a precedent for it. And your signature on a loan application would be evidence one would assume

Same as how in some of your other posts we only ever enter into a 'contract' when we agree to something with an official. Example: Drug dog search officer sayswe have stopped you as dog has indicated positive  result "do you understand?" if someone was to say "No" then what is to stop the police detaining them straight away?

As i said, it all makes sense in theory, but until i see an actual case, it is just that, a theory. Have you ever tried any of this yourself? (PM me if you dont want to discuss here)





sptrawler said:


> the court system appears to be geared towards finding people wrong who can afford or are willing to pay.
> If they are losers let them off, it's a waste of time. IMO




Yeh thats the way it is unfortunately. If you are going to court for a debt/claim against you you need to play the poor card.


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## ausnick87 (5 January 2012)

Calliope said:


> It is strange that inq is the only one to suggest that you get a job and pay your debts. This would benefit you *and the taxpayer.* You won't be missed at the Uni or TAFE where you are probably only doing Mickey Mouse courses anyway.






Calliope said:


> I am a taxpayer. ausnick said he was living off centrelink benefits. He is 24/25 years old and has obviously been living off taxpayer funding for many years. Getting a job would benefit the taxpayer and also ausnick's self-esteem.




I think sometimes it's better to seek out more information before you reach such conclusions. Firstly, what gave you the impression I'm studying mickey mouse course? The courses I'm studying are assistant nursing at TAFE (Aus does suffer from a shortage of AINs) and at uni I'm majoring in a psych course that's accredited with the Psychology board of Australia (meaning it's a degree that has practical value, whereas others don't).

Secondly, I have worked for the ATO full-time previously whilst studying part-time, during this time I not only served my government but I obviously pain a significant amount in personal income tax. I also worked for a while in outback earning around $50-$60k and again I paid $1000s in taxes.

I only get about $230 a week from centrelink nowadays anyways, it's not a lot.

Studying full-time/working part time is a good suggestion though, and I'll consider that... however part-time study means it would take 2-3x longer to get my degree.


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## Calliope (5 January 2012)

ausnick87 said:


> Secondly, I have worked for the ATO full-time previously whilst studying part-time, during this time I not only served my government but I obviously pain a significant amount in personal income tax. I also worked for a while in outback earning around $50-$60k and again I paid $1000s in taxes.




Which makes it all the more strange that you didn't pay off your debts. At your age it's about time you were doing something productive. Forget the psychology course.  We need more psychologists like a hole in the head. Concentrate on the nursing.


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## ausnick87 (5 January 2012)

Truth is, I was busy paying off other debts that I incurred from the time when the commonwealth bank gave me (an 18yo, fresh out of high school) a credit card with a $16,000 limit (which I have paid off now). edit: Why did they gave me such a high limit? I'd like to know that myself.

@Colliape: Your probably right about Aus not needing more psychologists, but have you ever been to a terminally ill ward? The mental state of most patients is pretty poor, particularly those who don't have the support of friends/family, imo they absolutely need the assistance from a mental health professional but for whatever reason they don't seem to be receiving much of that atm.

The reason I quit working full-time was so that I could study accelerate my education by doing double-fulltime studies and get my degree sooner rather than later (that way I can find much better paying work, pay more taxes and so on) during this time I've been engaged in volunteer work with the homeless, brain damaged patients and the terminally when I've had spare-time time as I still enjoy being active in the community. I've met a few 'bludgers' who just drink and surf all day whilst mooching off benefits (i do neither btw) but I can understand why I've been pre-judged by various members of this forum.

Still, I think it's a little unkind to tell me I'm a worthless bludger who belongs in gaol. Maybe scum like me who are focusing on their education at the taxpapers expense (who have 7.5k of credit card debt) should just be euthanised? =P


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## Junior (5 January 2012)

Ignore some of the negative responses Ausnick, they are mean and unhelpful.

Racking up consumer debts in your early 20s is pretty common and not something to be ashamed of.  The banks push credit cards on you and for some it's difficult to resist using them, especially when many of your friends are doing the same, out spending more than they can afford.

No big deal, pay off your debts, complete your studies and you're all set not to make the same mistakes in future.

I'm perplexed that some on here are keen for everyone to pay more tax.... I didn't realise we had so many members who have faith in our government to spend it so wisely


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## Calliope (5 January 2012)

Junior said:


> The banks push credit cards on you and for some it's difficult to resist using them, especially when many of your friends are doing the same, out spending more than they can afford.




Of course...blame the banks. It's always someone else's fault. It depends on whether you were raised to have a sense of values.



> I'm perplexed that some on here are keen for everyone to pay more tax.... I didn't realise we had so many members who have faith in our government to spend it so wisely




Ausnick's case is a good example of our taxes being spent unwisely.


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## ausnick87 (5 January 2012)

Junior said:


> Ignore some of the negative responses Ausnick, they are mean and unhelpful.
> 
> Racking up consumer debts in your early 20s is pretty common and not something to be ashamed of.  The banks push credit cards on you and for some it's difficult to resist using them, especially when many of your friends are doing the same, out spending more than they can afford.
> 
> ...




Thanks  I appreciate your post.


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## ausnick87 (5 January 2012)

Calliope said:


> Of course...blame the banks. It's always someone else's fault. It depends on whether you were raised to have a sense of values.
> 
> Ausnick's case is a good example of our taxes being spent unwisely.




I personally don't blame the banks as I've already stated I accept responsibility for my debt (but I do find it odd any bank would give a high-interest $16k credit card to an 18yo with less than 6 months of employment history). I knew a guy once who declared bankruptcy over about $15k of debt... he urged me to take that route, I didn't because I don't believe in that way of thinking.

I understand your point of view about tax dollars being wasted on me, but without that assistance I'd have absolutely no way of being able to afford an education. Many young Australian's wouldn't. 

Why do you think the government implements welfare programs such as Austudy / HECS etc? The idea is that the government is willing to support students because they realise that someday these students will graduate and will have better paying jobs where they pay more tax dollars.


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## DocK (5 January 2012)

ausnick87 said:


> *Truth is, I was busy paying off other debts that I incurred from the time when the commonwealth bank gave me (an 18yo, fresh out of high school) a credit card with a $16,000 limit *(which I have paid off now). edit: Why did they gave me such a high limit? I'd like to know that myself.
> 
> @Colliape: Your probably right about Aus not needing more psychologists, but have you ever been to a terminally ill ward? The mental state of most patients is pretty poor, particularly those who don't have the support of friends/family, imo they absolutely need the assistance from a mental health professional but for whatever reason they don't seem to be receiving much of that atm.
> 
> ...




Am I correct in reading into this that you got yourself into trouble with a credit card debt to CBA when first out of school, then made the same mistake a few years later with a credit card from ANZ?  Presumably you knew you had the debt when you went overseas for several months - surely you didn't think you wouldn't be pursued for repayment of it upon your return?  Why did you take no action until the debt collectors caught up with you?  Is it reasonable for me to assume that if ANZ/debt collectors had not been able to track you down that you would have continued to ignore/forget the $6000 debt you'd racked up before leaving the country?

More importantly - what do you think you should do?  What does your gut or conscience tell you is the right course of action?  If you manage to duck out of paying the vast majority of the debt you knowingly incurred will you feel OK about doing so?  Would you one day use your actions as a good example for your kids to follow?  When you become a productive taxpaying member of society will you one day in a few decades time shake your head over the way your tax $$$s are being spent?  

Only you can answer these questions, just as you are answerable firstly to yourself.  Having made the same mistake twice now, I do hope you don't currently have a credit card??


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## Whiskers (5 January 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> What i am after is for evidence that your legal theories actually work in court. IE - If you went to court against a bank and said "oh you never actually loaned me any money" how could you actually win that case? It sounds plausible in theory i just dont see a precedent for it. And your signature on a loan application would be evidence one would assume




In the US after the GFC, there were a few cases where people contested the mortgage debts insto's claimed they owed. What apparently happened is the loans got bundled up and passed along, but the original documents didn't accompany the bundles. So the Court had no option but to rule in favor of the defendants, ie that the insto left holding the pass-the-parcel, couldn't prove the defendant owed them any money.


Back to this case... Don't get hooked up on the moral high ground brow beating of the debt collecter. Don't agree to anything especially in writing until you have too. Make them provide the documentation to prove what principle and interest they claim you owe and especially the grounds for any fees and charges.

If they don't have their documentation correct and follow strict legal proceedures you can frustrate them in the court process. Also be aware of the statute of limitations in your state, ie if they are outside the statute time, or you can frustrate them past the time, you have a valid defence in court. Note that the statute of limitations time starts from your last repayment or when the debt occurred, whichever is the later. 

Last but not least, even debt collectors have to abide by the law and certain codes of conduct. It's always handy to record their conversations for illegal threats as well as anything they might agree to or promise and later renege on.


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## BradK (5 January 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I believe six months in one of our Gaols would cure you, forever.
> 
> You are a leech upon the system which depends upon the honesty of the participants.
> 
> ...




WHAT? huh? Huh? HUH????!!! 

HAHAHAHHA


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## Calliope (5 January 2012)

ausnick87 said:


> Why do you think the government implements welfare programs such as Austudy / HECS etc? The idea is that the government is willing to support students because they realise that someday these students will graduate and will have better paying jobs where they pay more tax dollars.




In your case, apparently, it is to churn out another psychologist to swell the ranks of the already glutted counselling industry. It is a Mickey Mouse course.

Perhaps you could become a debt counsellor.


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## BradK (5 January 2012)

Calliope said:


> Which makes it all the more strange that you didn't pay off your debts. At your age it's about time you were doing something productive. Forget the psychology course.  We need more psychologists like a hole in the head. Concentrate on the nursing.




Geez you're direct. By that I mean incredibly rude. 
And reading the rest of your posts - let's open up on the Babyboomers shall we... a babyboomer are you??


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## Junior (5 January 2012)

Calliope said:


> Of course...blame the banks. It's always someone else's fault. It depends on whether you were raised to have a sense of values.
> 
> 
> 
> Ausnick's case is a good example of our taxes being spent unwisely.




I never said it's the banks fault.  But Ausnick's situation is not uncommon, I'm simply recognising that we live in a credit-soaked country (highest private debt/gdp ratio in the world??)...of course the individual needs to take responsibility for the debts they incur, but our major banks should also accept a portion of the blame, for regularly loaning funds to individuals who cannot afford to repay them.

Everyone makes mistakes, especially males aged 18-24.  There's nothing to be gained in taking the moral high ground here, the damage has been done, and he's trying to work out how to rectify the situation.  I'm guessing there's already been punishment in the form of sleepness nights and a ruined credit rating.


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## Calliope (5 January 2012)

BradK said:


> Geez you're direct. By that I mean incredibly rude.
> And reading the rest of your posts - let's open up on the Babyboomers shall we... a babyboomer are you??




Your logic escapes me.:dunno:


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## BradK (5 January 2012)

Calliope said:


> Your logic escapes me.




No doubt.


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## todster (5 January 2012)

What about another overseas holiday maybe they will forget this time.
You made the mattress on the floor now you must lie in it.


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## ausnick87 (5 January 2012)

It is indeed my mess/my mattress.. my hole that I've dug myself into. 

Yup, my credit rating is in ruins, this whole situation has caused a lot of unnecessary stress but I'm trying to make things right. I've started to apply for part-time jobs so that I can start making repayments.

Live and learn.


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## macca (5 January 2012)

ausnick87 said:


> It is indeed my mess/my mattress.. my hole that I've dug myself into.
> 
> Yup, my credit rating is in ruins, this whole situation has caused a lot of unnecessary stress but I'm trying to make things right. I've started to apply for part-time jobs so that I can start making repayments.
> 
> Live and learn.




OK at present it is a stuff up, find some sort of job and arrange a repayment schedule with Veda. They will usually do this for anyone but when the debtor has no assets then it is almost certain they will agree.

If you stick to the schedule, make it small enough so you can, say $10 a week, then eventually the act of meeting the repayments on time will help to restore your credit rating. You are actually establishing a record of repayment within the agreed guidelines, get it 

In time, someone will accept that Yep ! he has learned how to meet obligations and they will give you credit, may be small but that first step is the hardest one, do it and you will soon be back in the flow.


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## disarray (5 January 2012)

i worked collections for 3 weeks and these people are the absolute bottom feeding scavengers of the capitalist system. 

a few things -

1. if you just avoid them for 5 years the debt goes stat barred and they can't collect anymore. if you make a payment it resets the 5 year stat bar time so seeing as your credit rating is already in ruins you might as well just tell them to go fk themselves, hold out for 5 years and the debt will be closed. after 12 years your credit rating gets reset anyway.

2. when they call you, don't answer their questions. they'll want to confirm your name, date of birth etc. just don't answer, or give them false details. next time they ring just say "nah not his phone any more mate" and they'll go back to skip trace. then anytime they ring you and try to confirm date of birth just lie and give a false one.

3. if you do want to pay out of some misguided "moral" sense against the system that doesn't give a single solitary fk about you and creates imaginary money to jam down your throat with endless marketing and lax lending standards to turn you into a modern day debt serf, then negotiate extremely aggressively with them. 

tell them you can only pay back $5 a week, take it or leave it. demand a stop be put to interest accrual (make sure you do this! interest is still ticking over at whatever bullsh1t rate they flogged the loan off to you at). or save $1000 and say i'll pay $1000 to close the debt out now, take it or leave it. most of the time they will be happy to take the cash so the minion hassling you over the phone meets his kpi's and the company only paid cents on the dollar for the debt anyways.

seriously i once had to chase a 55 year old aboriginal living in the middle of the desert with no job for a $35,000 loan that a big 4 lent him. how the hell did he get the loan in the first place???

remember they are only able to call you 3 times a week at reasonable hours, and if you get the slightest feeling you are being harassed or bullied in any way go straight their management and lodge a formal complaint and kick up a stink with the financial services ombudsman and scream bloody murder and they'll probably just let the debt go just to shut you up.

i understand some of the "pay your debt back" sentiments floating around the thread, but after seeing how these cretins operate i wouldn't cross the road to p1ss on them if they were on fire. why not game the hell out of the system like all the rich pricks do to avoid their own liabilities and responsibilities.


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## Knobby22 (5 January 2012)

Disarray is so right.

What profession goes bankrupt the most - barristers.

It doesn't effect them raking in the money and it means they can avoid taxes.

Don't be a loser and pay it all off just to please some diehards here.


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## ausnick87 (5 January 2012)

@ Macca: Cheers 

@ knobby: That's an interesting fact about barristers. I know this article is ancient but is worth a read. http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/stories/s252926.htm 
"Some of these barristers have been declared bankrupt more than once, but because bankruptcy is no bar to practising in NSW, they continue to earn 6-figure incomes, with assets held in family trusts or under their wives' names."

@ disarray: Great post. You made some really good points. T

The thing is they know my homephone (which belongs to a shared residence) and my mobile... they have a recording of me acknowledging the debt from when they called me last week and can potentially take me to court... plus if I just ignore them/give them false information and try and wait for a few more years then how can I even begin to repair my credit rating? =/ 

The debt collector also said if I ever stopped communicating with her she would simply call my homephone and use my family members to get through to me... she said this in a threatening tone which I didn't think was appropriate. So after speaking with the ACC/ASIC I put a complaint through baycorp and she's now stopped contacting me, but once the complaint is resolved (takes about 30 days) I suppose they'll start making contact again.

I'll definitely make them an offer with whatever pay-out figure I can afford, if not I'll just stick to weekly repayments...


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## todster (5 January 2012)

ausnick87 said:


> It is indeed my mess/my mattress.. my hole that I've dug myself into.
> 
> Yup, my credit rating is in ruins, this whole situation has caused a lot of unnecessary stress but I'm trying to make things right. I've started to apply for part-time jobs so that I can start making repayments.
> 
> Live and learn.




Keep a sense of humour it's only a few K
If nothing else you started a good read.


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## Junior (5 January 2012)

Disarray I immensely enjoyed your post.  I also have some personal experience in this area I share some of your sentiments regarding debt collectors....but I toned down my posts for this forum.


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## Calliope (5 January 2012)

Junior said:


> Disarray I immensely enjoyed your post.  I also have some personal experience in this area I share some of your sentiments regarding debt collectors....but I toned down my posts for this forum.




Yes. Just like I toned down my posts on debt defaulters. I guess the pro debt defaulters have won the day. As a matter of interest what is your opinion on renters who refuse to pay rent and trash the house? You needn't answer. I guess I am just one of Knobby's "diehards" with an antiquated sense of right and wrong.


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## sval62 (5 January 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I believe six months in one of our Gaols would cure you, forever.
> 
> You are a leech upon the system which depends upon the honesty of the participants.
> 
> ...




One of your best quotes yet gg, a $1000 a month sounds reasonable to me,for petty theft.
Also Junior and Disarray I bet if he owed you $6k you would be choppin at the bit to get your money back and the first ones to whine and moan if he dudded you like you suggest he duds others.


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## suhm (5 January 2012)

I'm pretty sure the general consensus here would be that he should pay his debts and that he should pay them in full.

The thing is that the debt has been written off by the bank so he could probably get away with paying only a fraction of what he owes or nothing at all if he was quite aggresive about handling the debt. Whether this is a good or a bad thing is up to your own judgement. 

For me the former course of action is a practical solution and given the original owner of the debt will not benefit if he pays extra. Trying to escape from the debt scot free to me is morally abhorrent.

Giving a 16k credit card limit to a kid in his first job unless they are earning >100k seems absurd. Sounds like one of those pre-approved credit card deals and is equally irresponsisble.

I'm not knocking all the financial institutions I don'teven  have a problem with the even higher interest rates that CCV charges for smaller loans because the people that they provide credit for aren't serviced by the major financial service companies and the cost of providing these loans are much higher. They also don't provide endless rollovers so that a smaller debt like the OP become something absurd.

Interesting read though and I'm sure everyone would like to know the outcome.


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## prawn_86 (5 January 2012)

Out of interest, as far as i am aware, the OP has done nothing illegal, just immoral. 

All those members saying he should go to jail etc do you all try and minimise your tax? One could argue that is also immoral as the government needs that money...


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## IFocus (5 January 2012)

ausnick[QUOTE]87 said:


> I think sometimes it's better to seek out more information before you reach such conclusions. Firstly, what gave you the impression I'm studying mickey mouse course? The courses I'm studying are assistant nursing at TAFE (Aus does suffer from a shortage of AINs) and at uni I'm majoring in a psych course that's accredited with the Psychology board of Australia (meaning it's a degree that has practical value, whereas others don't).





Their are a number of ready made clients on this thread waiting for your services once you qualify........


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## moXJO (5 January 2012)

Years ago there was a way of clearing your credit rating by changing your name and doing something else. Cant remember what the second part was though now


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## barney (5 January 2012)

IFocus said:


> Their are a number of ready made clients on this thread waiting for your services once you qualify........






LOL ..... We won't ask you to name names "IF"

Good thread Ausnick!! FWIW .... I'm old fashioned .... "If you do the crime, you should do the time" ....... 

For the small amount of money you are talking about; negotiate your best payout figure; get another loan (the banks would loan Ned Kelly more than that amount !!) ... Pay the debt off; restore your credit rating asap; and get on with your life without this unecessary hassle.

 Good luck with it anyway.


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## Smurf1976 (5 January 2012)

Banks are in the business of taking a risk by lending money. That it's high risk is one of the reasons why most banks charge ridiculously high rates on credit card debt - it covers them for the debts that turn sour.

Any bank that hands out a $6K credit card to a young person with no real credit history is taking a risk and they know it. No need to feel sorry for them.

When I got my first credit card, there was no way the bank would offer more than a $500 credit limit until I had established a history of repaying debts, after which they offered to increase the limit. And that was despite having a permanent job. How times have changed...


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## prawn_86 (5 January 2012)

Smurf1976 said:


> When I got my first credit card, there was no way the bank would offer more than a $500 credit limit until I had established a history of repaying debts, after which they offered to increase the limit. And that was despite having a permanent job. How times have changed...




And yet last year when we applied for a credit card Westpac only offered me a 5k limit as i have never had an account with them and never held a card previously with anyone else. Despite the fact that i earn 3 - 4x my wife they offered her 20k as she had an account with them about 6 yrs ago (just account, not credit card).

Banks credit matrices make no sense. The were willing to offer her approx. 35% of her salary, yet only less than 5% of mine


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## Tyler Durden (5 January 2012)

suhm said:


> I'm pretty sure the general consensus here would be that he should pay his debts and that he should pay them in full.
> 
> The thing is that the debt has been written off by the bank so he could probably get away with paying only a fraction of what he owes or nothing at all if he was quite aggresive about handling the debt. Whether this is a good or a bad thing is up to your own judgement.
> 
> ...




Very succint response.

I don't think morals have a part to play in this situation, for a couple of reasons:

1. The bank knew the risk and they took it. It's like if someone asked me for a $1,000 loan and I knew there was a good probability they could not/would not pay me back, I can't lend it to them and then complain about not being repaid. If I lend that money, then I've accepted that level of risk.

2. People without morals when it comes to money will almost always be financially better off than those with morals. I used to have a high level of morals - I would complete my tax return with 100% honesty, even if people told me to do x so I could pay less tax, I wouldn't do it. I was of the view that police and hospitals need our funding.

Then I hear about politicians using our tax dollars for overseas trips, prostitutes, surfing the net for kiddy pr0n, giving themselves 30% raises etc and I realised that you can't care for a system that doesn't care about you. How many of us with morals here have paid more tax than Kerry Packer? I'm sure he slept a lot better than all of us. Money is money - it's every man for themselves.


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## Smurf1976 (5 January 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> Banks credit matrices make no sense. The were willing to offer her approx. 35% of her salary, yet only less than 5% of mine



I ended up with a card with a 4K limit drawn on a (now ex) partner's account. She knew nothing about it and, even more interesting, we never had any joint accounts of any type with that bank. 

That one really amazed me and to some extent still does.


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## Smurf1976 (5 January 2012)

Tyler Durden said:


> People without morals when it comes to money will almost always be financially better off than those with morals. I used to have a high level of morals - I would complete my tax return with 100% honesty, even if people told me to do x so I could pay less tax, I wouldn't do it. I was of the view that police and hospitals need our funding.
> 
> Then I hear about politicians using our tax dollars for overseas trips, prostitutes, surfing the net for kiddy pr0n, giving themselves 30% raises etc and I realised that you can't care for a system that doesn't care about you.



I've reached the same conclusion. I won't do anything illegal, but I'm not about to pay a cent more than I have to and the reason is simply that I'm fed up with seeing my money wasted.

Instead I choose to donate directly to worthwhile charities who I feel will do some more good with the money. I am also considering seeing if they need any volunteer collectors to help raise funds as I feel that would also be a useful way of contributing via my time.

I would be quite happy to pay more tax to fund the hospitals, maintain infrastructure and so on. A hike in GST or income tax is an idea that I'm more than happy with but ONLY if the money is used sensibly and not wasted. Until such time, I'll be paying as little as I legally can.


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## Julia (5 January 2012)

Calliope said:


> Yes. Just like I toned down my posts on debt defaulters. I guess the pro debt defaulters have won the day. As a matter of interest what is your opinion on renters who refuse to pay rent and trash the house? You needn't answer. I guess I am just one of Knobby's "diehards" with an antiquated sense of right and wrong.



+1.  So, Knobby, you don't see any need for honouring debts or fulfilling one's obligations?   I'd clearly formed the wrong impression of you.



sval62 said:


> One of your best quotes yet gg, a $1000 a month sounds reasonable to me,for petty theft.
> Also Junior and Disarray I bet if he owed you $6k you would be choppin at the bit to get your money back and the first ones to whine and moan if he dudded you like you suggest he duds others.



Exactly my thoughts.  I'm pretty sure both the above would scream loudly if someone did the dirty on them.



suhm said:


> I'm pretty sure the general consensus here would be that he should pay his debts and that he should pay them in full.
> 
> The thing is that the debt has been written off by the bank so he could probably get away with paying only a fraction of what he owes or nothing at all if he was quite aggresive about handling the debt. Whether this is a good or a bad thing is up to your own judgement.
> 
> ...



Great post, Suhm.   
It's amazing how we can rationalise our dishonesty via the assurance that it's all the bank's problem if they make a loan to someone who is a poor risk.  Their high interest rate apparently absolves us of any moral obligation.
Whacko, what a great society.

Smurf, agree entirely with your disgust about how our taxes are being used.  I think your determination to pay the minimum legal amount of tax is echoed by most Australians.
But I don't think that sentiment has anything to do with honouring a debt in which we have knowingly engaged.


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## Knobby22 (5 January 2012)

Julia said:


> +1.  So, Knobby, you don't see any need for honouring debts or fulfilling one's obligations?   I'd clearly formed the wrong impression of you.




Honesty is the number one thing a person needs in life. I always pay my debts, but the law works in certain ways. 

I see nothing wrong with him coming to an arrangement with the Credit company to pay part of the money back on good terms by either borrowing some money from his parents and paying them back or miniscule payments over many years at a low or minimal interest rate. 

The loan company bought the loan at a percentage of its worth from the bank. If they can cut a deal its a *win /win*.  I don't see why he should suffer for years when there is a better way. If he went bankrupt no one will get anything. The banks knew what they were getting into when they gave him the credit card though he didn't have a job. They do it for profit and it mucks up many young people's lives.

In the end he still loses; as his credit record is in tatters which will effect his life for many years.

It hardly compares to renting a house and not paying.  
Or avoiding all obligation like those barristers (so called upholders of the law) I mentioned. Disaray, Tech/a and others gave him good advice that he should heed.


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## Tyler Durden (5 January 2012)

Let's keep in mind that this guy is struggling financially. There are actually people out there who are more than capable of paying their debts, yet still seek to pay less than what they initially agreed to.



Smurf1976 said:


> I've reached the same conclusion. I won't do anything illegal, but I'm not about to pay a cent more than I have to and the reason is simply that I'm fed up with seeing my money wasted.
> 
> Instead I choose to donate directly to worthwhile charities who I feel will do some more good with the money. I am also considering seeing if they need any volunteer collectors to help raise funds as I feel that would also be a useful way of contributing via my time.
> 
> I would be quite happy to pay more tax to fund the hospitals, maintain infrastructure and so on. A hike in GST or income tax is an idea that I'm more than happy with but ONLY if the money is used sensibly and not wasted. Until such time, I'll be paying as little as I legally can.




Yes, I actually do a little charity work myself. I like to donate my old clothes to Vinnie's, and last year I was a volunteer for a children's event. With these methods, at least my contribution is direct and cannot be mis-directed.


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## Julia (5 January 2012)

Knobby22 said:


> Don't be a loser and pay it all off just to please some diehards here.






Knobby22 said:


> Honesty is the number one thing a person needs in life



Well, now, you seem to be of two minds about honesty and obligation. 



> The loan company bought the loan at a percentage of its worth from the bank.



I couldn't care less about the fortunes of some debt collectors.
He borrowed X amount from the bank and apparently decided he had no obligation to pay that back, swanning off overseas and seemingly hoping it would just go away.  That's the point I and others are making.


> If he went bankrupt no one will get anything.



Agree.



> T They do it for profit and it mucks up many young people's lives.



Well, those young people need to learn not to take on a debt they cannot handle.
I know bank bashing is a national sport, and I agree that banks have a duty of care - to their shareholders if no one else - to lend responsibly, but for heaven's sake, let's not confer on young people the notion that nothing is their fault.  The nanny state is already well on the way to doing this, so let's, please, be encouraging people to take responsibility for their own decisions in every field.



> It hardly compares to renting a house and not paying.



I disagree.  In both cases, an agreement has been entered into and should be honoured, barring catastrophic illness or the like.


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## bellenuit (5 January 2012)

Apart from the dishonesty aspect, isn't the attitude that it won't hurt the financial institutions overlooking the fact that those institutions will not really suffer as they will pass such losses on to the battlers, whether by higher interest rates (to allow for defaults), higher premiums (to allow for fraudulent claims) or higher taxes to make up for those who don't pay their proper share.


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## Knobby22 (5 January 2012)

Julia said:


> Well, those young people need to learn not to take on a debt they cannot handle.
> The nanny state is already well on the way to doing this, so let's, please, be encouraging people to take responsibility for their own decisions in every field.
> 
> .




That is the salient pont, he will suffer! his credit record is shot. He is not getting away with it. All I am saying is that he should be smart and come to an arrangement with the people who bought the loan off the bank.



Julia said:


> I know bank bashing is a national sport, and I agree that banks have a duty of care - to their shareholders if no one else - to lend responsibly




The banks (especially GE) deliberately prey on the foolhardy and expect to get some failures. To not do it would be bad for the shareholders!


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## Julia (5 January 2012)

Knobby, we will obviously have to accept disagreement on the topic.

Bellenuit, good point.  Of course it's not "the banks" who wear the damage, but the customers to whom they pass on the costs.


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## Smurf1976 (5 January 2012)

In principle I totally agree with those saying the debt should be repaid. Morally, that is the correct thing to do.

But likewise, the banks need to make a lot of changes from a moral perspective too and failure to do so will inevitably encourage a "me too" way of thinking.

I think that a lot of the problems really come down to banks and their ability to "outsource" the debts of customers. The so-called packaging of loans and selling the debt etc. Outlaw this practice, such that if a debt goes bad then the bank really does lose its own money, and we'll see a proper assessment procedure for loan applicants re-introduced real quick.

I think that both parties are somewhat to blame here. It's wrong to enter into a debt with no intention of repayment. It is equally immoral to market credit, especially those "pre-approved" cards, to those unable to afford it and then expect them to make huge repayments. Both sides are partly to blame here.

Edit: I just logged into online banking to check one of my accounts. There are no less than THREE separate references on the main page offering me a credit limit increase. THREE. And this isn't even a credit card account but is actually a savings account. Banks push lending, I think that is pretty clear.


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## Calliope (6 January 2012)

Smurf1976 said:


> Banks push lending, I think that is pretty clear.




Of course. That is what banks do.


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## Junior (6 January 2012)

Morally, I entirely agree, that if you take a loan it should be repaid in full.

BUT it is not always that simple.  Circumstances change and debts cannot always be repaid.  That is why our financial system allows for negotiations, Part X agreements, bankruptcies etc.  People lose their jobs, businesses fail, mental health problems, death in the family etc etc. These things can lead to loan defaults and unpaid debts.

Although Ausnick's situation is one of his own making (AND to an extent the bank's making IMO), the fact is that he is part of this system, and in my opinion should assess all of the options available to him - within the law.

At the end of the day I don't think he'll feel any better, or improve anyone's life by repaying the entire debt just out of some strong sense of morals.  All it will do is add to Baycorp's bottom line.


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## prawn_86 (6 January 2012)

Junior said:


> At the end of the day I don't think he'll feel any better, or improve anyone's life by repaying the entire debt just out of some strong sense of morals.  All it will do is add to Baycorp's bottom line.




Exactly. The same as one tries to minimise ones tax, why shouldn't one try and minimise ones bills?


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## Calliope (6 January 2012)

Knobby22 said:


> The banks (especially GE) deliberately prey on the foolhardy and expect to get some failures. To not do it would be bad for the shareholders!




Fools will always be preyed on. It's a competitive world out there. If the Nanny State could make it illegal to prey on fools I am sure they would do so. But I am sure that even the fools would object to having to wear a sign round their necks saying "I am a fool - be gentle with me."

The biggest worry in ausnick's case (he admits he is a fool) is that one day he will be counselling others.


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## todster (6 January 2012)

Calliope said:


> Fools will always be preyed on. It's a competitive world out there. If the Nanny State could make it illegal to prey on fools I am sure they would do so. But I am sure that even the fools would object to having to wear a sign round their necks saying "I am a fool - be gentle with me."
> 
> The biggest worry in ausnick's case (he admits he is a fool) is that one day he will be counselling others.




ausnick consider yourself lucky this bloke is not the debt collector


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## Calliope (6 January 2012)

todster said:


> ausnick consider yourself lucky this bloke is not the debt collector




Nonsense. We need fools and should nurture them. As Mark Twain said;

 "Let us be thankful for the fools. But for them the rest of us could not succeed."


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## LostMyShirt (6 January 2012)

This is some fairly idealistic banter for a 4K-5K debt.

The reality of the matter is the institution should be careful who they lend to, but if lending decreased their balance sheets look bad. 

Anyone remember the GE Money debacle where they would lend any amount to any person with a high interest rate in order to secure debt, and when said person cannot pay they sell the inflated debt with the joke of an interest rate? Where is the ideology now?

OP: Your debt is peanuts. You can get away with a payment plan of probably $20 a week if need be. This should avoid CRA as well, and you won't need to go bankrupt for it.

I think all the idealistic posters out there bantering to their own ego should calm down. The guy is a student, he's got nothing - he doesn't work because study takes up a lot of time. Telling him to quit and work to pay off a measly debt is probably the STUPIDEST thing I have ever heard and I am reluctant to believe comments like that come from reason.

OP; this is so not a big deal at all man. Organize a payment plan of what you can afford. They have no choice but to take it. If they take you to court and bankrupt you, they get nothing. I don't even think a magistrate would be willing to rule on bankruptcy he most likely will advise a payment plan unless your wish is to be bankrupt.


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## OzWaveGuy (6 January 2012)

I wonder what would happen if you offered to pay the outstanding balance of any "debt" in exchange for the original debt instrument that you signed. Seems like a fair swap since it's that original instrument with your signature that created the "debt" in the first place. Do you think the bank/debt collector has this original instrument? I wonder what would happen if they don't have it?

Perhaps all this has something to do with why you never get a bill, only ever a statement and why a home loan is never a contract, but an "agreement". I wonder if it's because these folks are not actually creditors and they never loaned anything to begin with. Perhaps using the word "agreement" gets around the legal definition of a "contract" - a valid contract must have consideration and provide full disclosure amongst other criteria. What are they hiding, what did they actually give you? 

Sorry for my questions that are clearly not in line with the assertions in this thread. Perhaps looking more closely will show that you are the creditor.


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## Knobby22 (6 January 2012)

Calliope said:


> Nonsense. We need fools and should nurture them. As Mark Twain said;
> 
> "Let us be thankful for the fools. But for them the rest of us could not succeed."




True
Another saying for the modern age you can quote:

"A fool and his credit rating are soon parted"

The Knobby one - 2012


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## Calliope (6 January 2012)

LostMyShirt said:


> This is some fairly idealistic banter for a 4K-5K debt.
> ...I think all the idealistic posters out there bantering to their own ego should calm down.




Definition 
Banter: "an exchange of light, playful, teasing remarks."

How's this for a bit of ironic banter;  

A guy who goes by the name of LostMyShirt is handing out advice on debt repayment.


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## prawn_86 (6 January 2012)

OzWaveGuy said:


> Perhaps all this has something to do with why you never get a bill, only ever a statement and why a home loan is never a contract, but an "agreement". I wonder if it's because these folks are not actually creditors and they never loaned anything to begin with. Perhaps using the word "agreement" gets around the legal definition of a "contract" - a valid contract must have consideration and provide full disclosure amongst other criteria. What are they hiding, what did they actually give you?




This is the kind of stuff i am after OWG 

Out of interest, what do you think would happen if one was to stop paying the mortage and use this argument that there is no actual contract in place? Who actually owns the house? These are serious questions, i'm very interested int his sort of thing


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## LostMyShirt (6 January 2012)

Calliope said:


> Definition
> Banter: "an exchange of light, playful, teasing remarks."
> 
> How's this for a bit of ironic banter;
> ...




I'd say that is a genetic fallacy if anything.

You should crawl back in the hole marked "ideals" and watch the world pass you by.


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## prawn_86 (6 January 2012)

Easy guys. Any personal attacks will be removed and the posters infracted


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## LostMyShirt (6 January 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> Easy guys. Any personal attacks will be removed and the posters infracted




Fair enough. I'm not particularly offended and neither should he be.

That question you asked OWG reminded me of conspiracy theory video's where some guy challenged the foreclosure of his property because the bank had no actual backing of his loan or something?

I really wish I could find the video and if I do I'll link it to you asap.


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## OzWaveGuy (6 January 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> This is the kind of stuff i am after OWG
> 
> Out of interest, what do you think would happen if one was to stop paying the mortage and use this argument that there is no actual contract in place? Who actually owns the house? These are serious questions, i'm very interested int his sort of thing




This is the issue seen in the US on home foreclosures. Some of the parties undertaking the foreclosure didn't have legal standing to do so and were challenged. They had sold off the debt instrument for $$$ and continued taking the repayments. 

The answer is yes. It is possible, if you follow a process that has the bank tacitly admit they never lent you money in the first place - in fact you lent it to your other self, and your other self agreed to pay it all back with interest. You would also need to claim title to the property and the lender would need to help you do this - tacitly of course. 

There's nothing wrong with the way loans are created since it allows folks to acquire the good things in life. We simply need to be more educated about how it's done.

This is probably not the thread to discuss since folks are down to attacking other posters now (over a debt that doesn't exist, lol).


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## prawn_86 (6 January 2012)

OzWaveGuy said:


> This is probably not the thread to discuss since folks are down to attacking other posters now (over a debt that doesn't exist, lol).




I agree. PM sent


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## ausnick87 (9 January 2012)

back in 08' baycorp bought the debt from anz that would have been around $6-6.5k

now they say its up to $8k and are demanding a settlement of $5500 or an installment plan where I pay whatever I can afford per week.

They won't budge from that figure ! Any suggestions?


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## awg (9 January 2012)

ausnick87 said:


> back in 08' baycorp bought the debt from anz that would have been around $6-6.5k
> 
> now they say its up to $8k and are demanding a settlement of $5500 or an installment plan where I pay whatever I can afford per week.
> 
> They won't budge from that figure ! Any suggestions?




You wont get much joy negotiating over the phone, they have a script and are black-hearted devils, will only upset you.

My suggestion would be to negotiate by email.
Include your budget, and presumed poverty. Dont hold back...are you an orphan?

Make a lowball offer, giving them a choice of repayment or installments. Dont start too high, they wont let you reduce your offer once accepted

It is better to make a complete settlement, as the debt may grow otherwise.
If you are utterly unable to pay, they will most likely threaten bankruptcy.

That is where it is important you have documented a willingness to pay, based on your capability..ie keep the emails


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## prawn_86 (9 January 2012)

Out of interest, in theory at least, if Baycorp have purchased the debt off of ANZ then they are the 2 parties of the (new/different) contract. Where do you fit into this contract between the 2?


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## disarray (9 January 2012)

ausnick87 said:


> back in 08' baycorp bought the debt from anz that would have been around $6-6.5k
> 
> now they say its up to $8k and are demanding a settlement of $5500 or an installment plan where I pay whatever I can afford per week.
> 
> They won't budge from that figure ! Any suggestions?




hold out for 12 months till the debt goes stat barred and they write it off


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## ausnick87 (9 January 2012)

I've tried corresponding via email/phone and this is it's been going.

I just called baycorp and tried speaking to another agent who said anything below $5500 would be impossible... so I spoke to a team leader... then a manager, all of whom said I have until the 20th to pay the settlement figure of $5592 and said it's no longer negotiable.

I explained I'm a struggling fulltime student and those demands are not practical, they did not care in the slightest, I talked about the option of bankruptcy and they said that's my decision to make but they will be able to go through the courts and extra money from me anyways.

I even offered to pay $5000 TODAY to close the account and they still refused ! 

I can go on a payment plan, but then I'll be entering an agreement to pay out the full $8k + interest + it would me forever. I'd rather just get it settled.

holding for 12 months? I've already told them the debt is mine and they have threatened legal action... I'm not gonna risk going to court over this.


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## awg (9 January 2012)

ausnick87 said:


> I've tried corresponding via email/phone and this is it's been going.
> 
> I just called baycorp and tried speaking to another agent who said anything below $5500 would be impossible... so I spoke to a team leader... then a manager, all of whom said I have until the 20th to pay the settlement figure of $5592 and said it's no longer negotiable.
> 
> ...




If you go bankrupt, they get 0.

Its a shame you offered $5k, as I think they tape record the conversations for that purpose.

The outcome is ultimately your capacity to repay, and skill as a negotiator.

You should not be intimidated by threats of court, as they have to go thru a process, and you are able to represent yourself.


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## prawn_86 (9 January 2012)

ausnick87 said:


> holding for 12 months? I've already told them the debt is mine and they have threatened legal action... I'm not gonna risk going to court over this.




I have been to court with debt collectors before (based on a bill disagreement with a company, not a debt racked up) and in your situation the court is likely to side with you. Especially if you show you have tried putting forward an offer and being reasonable.

And just cause you have said the debt is ours doesnt mean they can prove it... The contract is between the bank and Baycorp


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## awg (9 January 2012)

Ausnick, just in case you havent googled, this is a decent resource base.

http://www.rlc.org.au/other/factsheets/01harrassment.html


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## nulla nulla (9 January 2012)

There is a lot of miss-information in here and it is worthwhile putting it in perspective and addressing the facts:

I am assuming that you are in NSW.

1. You incurred the debt on a credit card. Whether or not you applied to the bank for the card or they sent you a pre approved application is of little importance. Either way at some point you affixed a signature to the agreement and returned same agreeing to the terms and conditions;
2. Whether you ran up the debt progressively or in one go is also of little importance. It is a debt and not a loan;
3. When payment was not received in accordance with the minimum monthly repayments and the bank was unable to contact you to arrange payment or a payment plan, it is likely you were listed as a defaulter with a credit reporting agency such as vada;
4. After some time of trying to contact you and resolve the situation the bank likely wrote the debt off and sold/assigned the debt to baycorp debt collectors at a discount;
5. The value at which baycorp acquired your debt is not important as you still owe the full debt;
6. While the credit default with vada is for a limited time and then lapses (I believe it is 5 years) and can not be re-instated, the debt does not lapse or go stale unless it can be shown that a period of six (6) years lapsed between points of contact with you in respect of payment of the debt. As the debt relates to 2008, six years has not passed and the debt is still valid;
7. *Your offer to settle with baycorp is actually the best way to resolve this matter*. If you cannot deal direct with baycorp and achieve a realistic result then consult a lawyer. Alternatively consult with a debt consolidation organisation such as "Fox" or "Ron Dunlop". Explain your present circumstances to them and you should be able to get them to deal professionally with baycorp;
8. If you continue to deal directly with baycorp it is likely you will get no further than you already have. Ironically, when approached by a professional such as the lawyer or debt consolidator, baycorp will likely take on board the merits of accepting your offer, current value of money versus future value of drawn out and precarious monthly payments; and
9. When you do put it to the lawyer or debt consolidator to resolve this matter, suggest politely that their fees come out of the $5,000.00 and that as a result of baycorp not being prepared to resolve this directly with you, they can now settle on a reduced amount.

I am not a lawyer or financial adviser. Neither is this forum. I strongly recommend that you get professional assistance and you will be surprised at how easily this matter can be resolved without sending you to the poor house. Good luck.


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## prawn_86 (9 January 2012)

If you do want to go down the route of paying it back please note that in NSW small claims court deals with amounts under 10. This means *no legal representation is allowed *in the court room. IE it will be yourself against someone from Baycorp. Neither party is allowed to have their lawyer present.

So when you front up it is just you, a Baycorp staff member (who may or may not have law qualifications) and the judge. You then have to convince the judge that you have tried to be reasonable in making an effort to pay back a nominal amount.

I went through this twice once in which the judge sided with me but awarded an adjournment to gather more evidence for the other side and then the following time they settled out of court on the morning it was due. FWIW they were chasing me for a car accident which wasnt my fault (driver t-boned me in a rental car) so the rental car co onsold the 'debt'. I offered them $600 on their baloney figure of 6k and they accepted, after 3 yrs of wrangling...

For this reason i probably wouldn't consult (paid) legal advice, as they cannot even go to court with you. Google is your friend


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## Ben L (21 June 2012)

Baycorp is one of the better debt collectors to deal with, they have accepted settlement offers of upto 80% off! Just keep pleading you have no money and you owe other creditors and they will settle. Just be glad that ACM didnt buy your debt. They are truly scum!

Also best time to settle is just before the end of the financial year meaning now.


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## awg (13 August 2014)

Debt collectors keep ringing me about ANOTHER PERSONS debts

As these calls, are diverted to my business mobile, and often hang up, its a real nuisance.

This has been going on since we moved and got a new number.

I have previously advised callers the persons no longer have this phone num.
That didnt work

They wont disclose any detail due to "privacy"

After receiving several calls recently, I got angry and abused them....but that didnt work either

So i decided on a change of tactic...next caller asked me if I was Brianna XXXXXXX...I said "Yes I am and
I want to pay my debts"  the southern asian-sounding gent seemed taken aback, and asked for my date of birth...I replied "do you want your fkn money or not...who is this calling?"...he said St George (bank)

I then launched into a tirade and demanded my phone num be immediately removed form the register, and that I would ring St Geo next day to make sure.

When I rang St Geo, they said there is no record of that number

Is there anything else I can do to shake of these callers?


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## burglar (13 August 2014)

awg said:


> ... Is there anything else I can do to shake of these callers?




Hi AWG,

Long time, no see.
How are the children?


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## macca (14 August 2014)

awg said:


> Debt collectors keep ringing me about ANOTHER PERSONS debts
> 
> As these calls, are diverted to my business mobile, and often hang up, its a real nuisance.
> 
> ...




I would contact my phone company and change my number, a nuisance but should put an end to the torment.


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## wishingonadream (9 October 2014)

Did anyone stop to consider that the actual debt is around $500 that Baycorp actually purchased the debt for
+ % grand total approx $700. Paying $7.5k is only adding to BayCorps profit and has nothing to do with the ANZ debt which has already been written down.


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## Ganyeka (10 October 2014)

Yep, Baycorp would have paid no more than 10c on the dollar, probably less on this type of debt. Having said that, when they pick up portfolios of this type of debt they would have a collection target of 25 to 40% of the portfolio face value, so they need to try to make every post a winner. Best option is to source some funds and offer 15%, then let them drag you up to 20% if you have to.


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## awg (20 November 2015)

awg said:


> Debt collectors keep ringing me about ANOTHER PERSONS debts
> 
> As these calls, are diverted to my business mobile, and often hang up, its a real nuisance.
> 
> ...





Some developments, this is not an uncommon problem apparently 

I managed to stop some callers by the impersonation method, and in the process gained much info from their manager.

Unfortunately, my "nemesis" must have been a real fraudster, as others are chasing him apparently.

As changing the phone number is not an option, it seems my best/only method is a "scripted impersonation" routine, as they are dammed uncooperative.

Once I falsely confirm I am said individual, they ask for DOB!

I have a bit of a routine now to deflect them enough that they skip that part and reveal from whom they are calling

Once I have that info, I can commence to deal with this harassment via a defined procedure

the operative expresses outrage that I have committed " a criminal offence" of impersonation

I mock them with the facts that this is only an offence under limited circumstances;

ie (police, doctor, judicial officer) ,fraud for financial benefit, defamation or copyright

(otherwise, if you came up to me on the street, and I said I was Frank Sinatra, that would be a crime)


Is it illegal to swear at people over the phone?...I dont think so? (when it is a debt collector falsely harassing me as previously outlined)...with consideration of what would be offensive to a debt collector, and reasonable defence

The next part of my script goes something like this..."dont tell me what to do, you co%#$*%^ing SOB "

They say "dont swear please"...I respond.."did you not listen to what I just said..dont tell me what to do...you SOB co%^$&^*er "

and so on....  I have found simply alternating those two words has an unsettling affect on almost any individual after a very short time:badsmile:

naturally every second word begins with an F...I explain to them that now that I no longer have to wear a suit and tie, I enjoy expressing myself freely


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## trainspotter (20 November 2015)

Go you good thing !! Another trick is hang up on them and when they phone back scream at them "WHY DID YOU HANG UP ON ME YOU MISERABLE PIECE OF (insert vernacular here)


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