# Broker side controls for MetaTrader



## cogs (15 March 2010)

I did a bit of a search yesterday to see what I could find out about 'broker side controls' for MT4 and thought I would post some images of what I found. I realise this is only a small picture of what settings are really available for brokers but it confirms my suspicions.

These are from Metatrader Manager.

You can form your own opinion.


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## cogs (15 March 2010)

*Re: In Case You Ever Wondered*

And another from 'Boston Technologies


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## macca (15 March 2010)

*Re: In Case You Ever Wondered*

Hi,

this info has been common knowledge on both FX forums that I go to for quite some time. This is the reason that people are touchy when entries/ exits are slow. 

I guess it is up to us to decide whether or not we trust our broker, I use Go and there have been a number of times that I have been stopped by 1 or 2 pips, I have since moved my stops to a better position and I now find that most of the time my stops are either just missed or blown away completely by a big move.

A lot of stop losses in the same spot show up on all brokers windows, they do deliberately run stops but it is not necessarily my broker doing that, it is just that the market can see them so they trigger them to get the mug money.


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## tayser (15 March 2010)

hence why MT4 brokers are known as bucketshops 

as above, this has been common knowledge for a while now.


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## Kryzz (15 March 2010)

Does IB only offer currency futures? Or do the spot market also?

Thanks.


( there was a post re IB and FX, hence the question posted here, since removed)


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## >Apocalypto< (15 March 2010)

Kryzz said:


> Does IB only offer currency futures? Or do the spot market also?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> ...




also offer spot, I trade it most days.


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## Kryzz (15 March 2010)

Thanks for the reply Apocalypto

Would it be fair to say then that the for the smaller volume trader (me, eg, two mini contracts or less) would still be better of sticking with purely a spot fx dealer (ie, go markets), as per the attached picture.

IB = 2.50 USD Commission, + Value of 1 Pip per (per side i assume)

Go = Value of 1-2 Pips, so 2-4 pips round trip.

Just trying to get my head around commissions.

Cheers,

shaun


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## Trembling Hand (16 March 2010)

Kryzz said:


> Would it be fair to say then that the for the smaller volume trader (me, eg, two mini contracts or less) would still be better of sticking with purely a spot fx dealer (ie, go markets), as per the attached picture.




You will always be better off using a broker over a MM. Even if the spread & commission is the same. But not sure what size two mini contracts are.


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## cogs (16 March 2010)

This thread has been renamed by the administrator. 

I originally titled it "In Case You Weren't Aware" to inform those who were not up to speed with 'Server Side' options/settings for brokers when promoting the 'MT4 platform' being available with their brokerage services. 

The posting is intended for newbies and the unaware, to help explain any potential suspicious activities you may have encountered with your trades when using the MT4 platform. 

I have no doubt that these and many other functions are written into most other software platforms also to assist brokers in the profitable function of their company/business. MT4 just makes it so obvious.


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## Trembling Hand (16 March 2010)

cogs said:


> I have no doubt that these and many other functions are written into most other software platforms also to assist brokers in the profitable function of their company/business. MT4 just makes it so obvious.




The word broker is used incorrectly in the above. Anyone who uses these "functions " are clearly trading against their clients and therefor not brokers but Market Makers.


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## professor_frink (16 March 2010)

Trembling Hand said:


> You will always be better off using a broker over a MM. Even if the spread & commission is the same. But not sure what size two mini contracts are.




2 mini contracts with most bucket shops is 20K, so IB may not be the best option for trades of this size


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## WaveSurfer (16 March 2010)

cogs said:


> I did a bit of a search yesterday to see what I could find out about 'broker side controls' for MT4 and thought I would post some images of what I found. I realise this is only a small picture of what settings are really available for brokers but it confirms my suspicions.
> 
> These are from Metatrader Manager.
> 
> You can form your own opinion.




WOW.....

I think I should change my broker


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## >Apocalypto< (16 March 2010)

Kryzz said:


> Thanks for the reply Apocalypto
> 
> Would it be fair to say then that the for the smaller volume trader (me, eg, two mini contracts or less) would still be better of sticking with purely a spot fx dealer (ie, go markets), as per the attached picture.




depends what you want, if you can't trade to a size of USD 25k or equivalent then you may have to trade on Ideal not the place to trade as it's for currency conversions. I trade on Ideal pro you need to have a base currency of $25K or more or the equivalent, so if 2.5$ usd per pip is to expensive for you right now as you're learning then IB maybe a place to come to later on.

please remember IB don't pull the base acc is the trading currency crap it's all in the terms you have to understand how the value of the terms will equal your base if you take a loss.   



> IB = 2.50 USD Commission, + Value of 1 Pip per (per side i assume)




if your trade is 25k usd or less you pay the min com per side $2.5 if the trade is over 25K you pay the bias point. this is also in the terms wehen charged depending on the pair.

example EURUSD 25K base size trade. I pay 1 (assuming spread was 1pip on ent and exit.) pip in spread plus 2.5USd in and when I close I pay 2.5 out. the cost of the trade was in terms (USD) is 1 pip = USD$2.5 + $5 so total is $7.5 yes more then the $5 you may pay at a MM.

Now this is were IB and spot FX come into it's own, at a STP or at a MM you get flash spreads .5 - 1.8 but it's not stable down to .5 for a sec then back to 1 to 1.5 back down ect.......... IB has solid steady spreads on usdjpy and eurusd that stick to .5 to 1pip they are very steady other pairs are excellent as well! I have seen 11 pip spread on USDNOK!!!!!!!! 

this is the difference! we trade 1 standard lot at a STP like FXCM we pay 2.3 in spread that's $23 and the market has to move 2.3 pips for us to be at BE (this spread moves out in as well) at IB we pay 1 pip that's 10$ plus the com that's about 3$ a side rough so all up 16$ inc spread. that's a $6.5 saving per 100 lot. 




> Go = Value of 1-2 Pips, so 2-4 pips round trip.
> 
> Just trying to get my head around commissions.
> 
> ...




not sure what that means.

hope the above helps.... plenty of time as no entry's in sight I have posted FX trader below so you can have a look at some of the spreads on a live acc. If I have made any mistakes please advise other IB traders.


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## Knoxy (16 March 2010)

Kryzz said:


> Go = Value of 1-2 Pips, so 2-4 pips round trip.




Seems a common error. You only pay the spread on entry. 1-2 pips means 1-2 pips eg. a 4pt spread on AUDUSD means you pay total $40 per lot, not $80.


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## Kryzz (16 March 2010)

>Apocalypto< said:


> depends what you want, if you can't trade to a size of USD 25k or equivalent then you may have to trade on Ideal not the place to trade as it's for currency conversions. I trade on Ideal pro you need to have a base currency of $25K or more or the equivalent, so if 2.5$ usd per pip is to expensive for you right now as you're learning then IB maybe a place to come to later on.





Thanks for the detailed response, appreciate it. I think you're right, IB probz best left for a little later down the track whilst im still in rookie mode. So for IdealPro, you need minimum of $25k cash in your account, or thats the minimum trade size?

Are FX traders classed as "pattern day traders" if trading on IB (intraday), i've seen that term thrown around a bit on their site, which I think if you are, you would need a min. of $25k in your a/c, out of my reach, for now at least.


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## Trembling Hand (17 March 2010)

Kryzz said:


> Thanks for the detailed response, appreciate it. I think you're right, IB probz best left for a little later down the track whilst im still in rookie mode. So for IdealPro, you need minimum of $25k cash in your account, or thats the minimum trade size?
> 
> Are FX traders classed as "pattern day traders" if trading on IB (intraday), i've seen that term thrown around a bit on their site, which I think if you are, you would need a min. of $25k in your a/c, out of my reach, for now at least.



Pattern day traders rule only applies to trading US equities. nothing else.

The pic I posted above is the minimum lot sizes for trading IB Pro in each base currency, not the margin required, which is 2.5% of the position for the majors.


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## Naked shorts (17 March 2010)

Couldnt we just sticky a thread saying that IB is the best broker?


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## >Apocalypto< (17 March 2010)

Kryzz said:


> Thanks for the detailed response, appreciate it. I think you're right, IB probz best left for a little later down the track whilst im still in rookie mode. *So for IdealPro, you need minimum of $25k cash in your account, or thats the minimum trade size?*




No buddy that's the minimum lot size required to trade on Ideal pro, you need 10KUSD to open the account.

Are FX traders classed as "pattern day traders" if trading on IB (intraday), i've seen that term thrown around a bit on their site, which I think if you are, you would need a min. of $25k in your a/c, out of my reach, for now at least.

Pattern day trader? I would not worry to much about things like that. All you need to know is you need 10K to open and enough to cover your margin. to trade on Ideal pro you need 25K in position size. 2.5 minis. 

cheers


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## WaveSurfer (20 March 2010)

>Apocalypto< said:


> ....Pattern day trader? I would not worry to much about things like that. All you need to know is you need 10K to open and enough to cover your margin. to trade on Ideal pro you need 25K in position size. 2.5 minis....




Cheers mate. I also got the impression I'd need 25k to trade with them. Testing the TWS sim now. Looks like I'm going to need a few weeks to get this baby sussed.


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## Naked shorts (21 March 2010)

attn. everyone: MT4 is a bucket shop


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## Naked shorts (21 March 2010)

attn. everyone: MT5 will also be a bucket shop


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## WaveSurfer (21 March 2010)

Naked shorts said:


> attn. everyone: MT5 will also be a bucket shop




I wouldn't call the platform itself a bucket shop. Certainly attracts them.

While I have experienced the effects of the "broker controls", it hasn't caused me to lose money.

For a free platform, it actually craps on a LOT of other paid solutions out there. Esignal I was disgusted with, feels like it was built for Win95 and hasn't been upgraded since. Metastock isn't too bad, I could live with that. For the price though, it has me questioning it. Amibroker is ok, definitely the better of the three. Ninja is alright, bit clunky and resource intensive though (thanks to .NET). 

Do you really always get what you pay for?

MT5 should be much better. OOP, real volume, market depth, events. Not sure how the data feeds are going to work, but if I can hook it into an ECN feed, I will strongly consider using it for my charting.


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## tayser (21 March 2010)

Real volume............. in FX markets?  hahah.  *head slap*


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## cogs (21 March 2010)

I guess it is not so free when used by a bucket shop. 

Most of the broker settings against productive trading, I find can be negated purely by longer term trading. ie: using >30 min charts, longer time time frames between trades and larger price movements.

I don't care what anyone says, if you trade using 1, 5 and sometimes 15min charts and time periods you can really see the broker settings come into play. One particular MT4 platform I have used always freezes when some serious action come into play while the others continue.

Whatever new customized code produced for the trader to use with MT4, there will always be brokers countering it. I would be even more sceptical to use MT5.

I'll be sticking to another platform.

Platform doesn't really matter sometimes, another broker I used shut me down when I started withdrawing x profit each week, the money is supposed to flow in one direction only.


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## WaveSurfer (21 March 2010)

tayser said:


> Real volume............. in FX markets?  hahah.  *head slap*




Research goes a long way champ. MT5 supports options, futures and stocks.

Who's head slapping who now? LMAO


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## WaveSurfer (21 March 2010)

cogs said:


> ....Most of the broker settings against productive trading, *I find can be negated purely by longer term trading. ie: using >30 min charts, longer time time frames between trades and larger price movements*....




There you go. Bold is the key. I too have only noticed it when trading very short term. I generally trade based of the 1hr, honing down to the smaller in attempt to get a better entry if I have the time.

Platform is not the issue. Any broker/MM can skew their platform/server to do this. From a coders point of view, too damn easy to do. Even when they use a third party platform.


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## WaveSurfer (21 March 2010)

I have not checked all the finer details, but this looks like it ticks all the boxes for STP to the ECN:

http://www.mbtrading.com/metaTrader4.aspx

This voids the broker controls because there is (supposedly) no middle man.

Minimum account size is suspect ($400), but minimum trade size is in sync with what the banks allow (10k units).

Anyone with a bit more knowledge may be able to set me straight.

I'm off to IB anyway so it doesn't concern me. TWS platform leaves a bit to be desired, but yea you get that.

No probs withdrawing _profits_ from axis either. I guess all bucket shops aren't created equal.


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## cogs (7 August 2010)

Just thought I would upload the plug in manual for some light reading for those interested.

.pdf attached.


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## cogs (8 August 2010)

And here's a brief video of some settings available in Metatrader Manager.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cf-Cs0bHXdg


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## billv (11 December 2011)

cogs said:


> Just thought I would upload the plug in manual for some light reading for those interested.
> 
> .pdf attached.




I didn't know that such manipulation of trades takes place with MT4.
Are other trading software designed to work in the broker's favour as well?


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## cogs (21 December 2011)

> Are other trading software designed to work in the broker's favour as well?



I would say without doubt all forex brokers have similar and maybe even more control over pricing built into their own software packages. I have experienced such questional behaviour even with commsec trading gold.

It is mainly that MT4 is 'open source' and most widely used so it generates more conversation.

It is becoming quite contraversial with so called Metaquotes copyright legal issues, and Metaquotes having posts and exposing videos taken off the net all over the place. I am surpirised my postings are still even here.

Read their PDS and financial statements, some are getting quite long now, but this is how they cover their corruption.


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## billv (22 December 2011)

cogs
thanks for the reply.
I haven't used MT4 much but I've experienced strange behaviour with the GFT software as well.
For example, yesterday I had a long position on AUD, 
the AUD on the 1 min chart was going up 
and my trade's balance at that particular time was going down.
Go figure.......


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## Alpha_Bet (26 December 2011)

billv said:


> cogs
> thanks for the reply.
> I haven't used MT4 much but I've experienced strange behaviour with the GFT software as well.
> For example, yesterday I had a long position on AUD,
> ...




this scenario is not related to mt4.

excepting outright bucketshops, mt4 is fine.

the market will game you, not your broker.


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## TulipFX (7 March 2012)

I put up a blog about brokers. Included is this subject. There is also a link within it to a large PDF outlining all the various methods they have to squeeze the little guy.

The blog: https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/entry.php?b=933

The PDF with more details of plugins: http://cdn6.tulipfx.com/images/blogpost_brokers/Virtual_Dealer_Plugin.pdf


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