# Boat People in Leonora WA



## Putty7 (8 June 2010)

I noticed on the news last night that some of the boat people that were being detained at Christmas Island, which evidently has filled to capacity have been flown in to Leonora. 

Apparently they have chosen to move families which may have been to eliminate the chance of individuals doing a runner now that they are on the mainland. 

While the greater majority of people illegally entering this Country come in by other means and that only a sheer act of desparation must put these people on leaking hulks and boats to chance the passage to Australia, I just wonder if bringing them to the mainland is the right well thought out choice or a quick fix to solve the over crowding of Chirstmas Island.

I am a bit naive when it comes to this topic but I assume the ones who were bought here are almost through the process of acceptance anyway and that Christmas Island will remain the first stop and process area. 

We have some well educated and learned posters on ASF, just wondering what a few thoughts are on the topic.


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## springhill (8 June 2010)

Putty7 said:


> I just wonder if bringing them to the mainland is the right well thought out choice or a quick fix to solve the over crowding of Chirstmas Island.




Oh yeah the right thing, imagine the sales pitch people smugglers will be peddling now! Instead of 'I can get you to Australian waters' it's now 'I can get you to mainland Australia'.




Putty7 said:


> I am a bit naive when it comes to this topic but I assume the ones who were bought here are almost through the process of acceptance anyway and that Christmas Island will remain the first stop and process area.




Incorrect, why do you think the Govt is only bringing families? So we can see some pics of some doe eyed children holding their teary eyed mothers. Propaganda BS! Wouldn't quite look the same if it was a conga line of middle aged male adults would it?

See through the spin. I wonder how many will be relocated in Canberra?


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## Putty7 (8 June 2010)

springhill said:


> Oh yeah the right thing, imagine the sales pitch people smugglers will be peddling now! Instead of 'I can get you to Australian waters' it's now 'I can get you to mainland Australia'.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I don't agree with it Springhill, I'm sure there would be thousands of immigrants going through the process to enter legally who would also not agree, I dare say the handful of people living in Leonora would also not be happy. It was done very quietly and to me it looks like another band aid fix on a serious problem that Australia doesn't seem to be dealing with very well.


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## springhill (8 June 2010)

Putty7 said:


> I don't agree with it Springhill, I'm sure there would be thousands of immigrants going through the process to enter legally who would also not agree, I dare say the handful of people living in Leonora would also not be happy. It was done very quietly and to me it looks like another band aid fix on a serious problem that Australia doesn't seem to be dealing with very well.




Sorry mate that post wasn't meant to sound aggressive, but you've hit the nail on the head in regards to why it riles me so much. So many worthy people following the proper process to enter Australia, waiting as long as 10 years in refugee camps, what gives these people the right to queue jump?

What does Rudd have to say about this? That 13,000 immigrants still came through per year throughout the Howard years, the same as now. THIS part is true, but during the Howard years more LEGAL immigrants came through the right channels. For every boat person that arrives, it pushes the refugee camp people one further back.
Rudd, you are a DISGRACE and should be held to account. Your weasel worded days are over, see the writing on the wall.


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## prawn_86 (8 June 2010)

I dont normally input into these types of threads, but agree.

We have close family friends who are Swiss, and speak peerfect english. He is an engineer, she is a mental health nurse and they did not get accepted with a visa that would lead into citizenship.

Go figure....


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## Eljet Trader (8 June 2010)

Hi All,

firstly, I'm not belittling anyones opinion here, but this is a topic close to my heart.  I'm heavily involved in the apprehension of suspected illegal entry vessels (SIEV) and the subsequent 'shuttle service' to C.I.  I've been doing this since 2002 and I'm lucky enough to provide an insight into both sides of the story as it were.

It's very difficult to remain broad minded about illegal immigration but the fact is, is that most of of the detainees are from Afghanistan and by the letter of international law class as refugees not immigrants upon processing.  They herald from a country ravaged by war and since Rudds policys dictate the immediate processing of these individuals, we've seen an influx of SIEVs never seen before.

Howards policies were simple - we shadow the vessels and as soon as they crossed the AEEZ they were told to turn back, essentially a shout out to 'if you want to come here, come by the proper means.  However, in the case of Mass Survival of Life at Sea (MASS SOLAS) where they would sink their vessels to pressure processing, Howards poilicys dictated that this still would not necessarily guarentee asylum.

I'm not going to get started on Rudds policies because it is completely politically driven and for the most part does not make sense morally, financially or in the best interests of Australia.

The underlying ethical issue into receiving refugees from a war torn country has had a large influence on the Australian general public, however the fact remains that Afghanistan has neighbouring borders where the safe passage and conduct of refugees is strictly controlled by world organisations.  (eg. UNICEF)

The moral issue of sending out a message to the world where people smuggling is okay puts Rudd in jeopardy of not only administering a weak policy but not consulting the facts.  These people pay upwards of $10,000 US to travel here and I don't even want to go into the living conditions that they have to go through.  People smuggling is the scum of the earth.  Big wigs are making immense profit on the livestock of people.

I can't reveal anything about what border control does obviously, but I can say that the lads are so overworked that media has overlooked the amount of relationship break downs or children not seeing their parents because of the high temp environment.  Hats off to my fellow mates and your fellow Australians.  I work closely with people who, if the situation arose, would put me up in a room at their house without even a word, tomorrow if I lost everything.  Some of these people actually immigrated to Australia recently through the beaurocratic means.  They waited in line with every one else and were heavily scrutinezed for the level of education, experience and what they can do for Australia.

I only ask....  Prime Minister Rudd, tell me one good thing about your policy where illegal immigrants have a free reign to come here?  I dare anyone to provide one.


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## Putty7 (8 June 2010)

prawn_86 said:


> I dont normally input into these types of threads, but agree.
> 
> We have close family friends who are Swiss, and speak peerfect english. He is an engineer, she is a mental health nurse and they did not get accepted with a visa that would lead into citizenship.
> 
> Go figure....




Makes you wonder what is involved behind the scenes to get the required approval stamp Prawn.

Thanks for your imput Eljet, although I am not shy as to my thoughts on Rudd this thread wasn't designed for that purpose so I will not go into that area any further, your comments on people involved directly through working within this area are welcomed and something I had not thought about myself to be honest.

Refugees seeking to jump the queue and enter Australia illegally is a problem that is not going to go away so what alternatives are available to the Government of the day, whoever they might be, in the future. 

Australia has been critised recently by the International community for not doing enough as far as its responsibility for taking refugees.

People smugglers are the scum of the Earth and making money from peoples suffering and misery and treating them little better than animals is something that maybe should be more actively targeted, I dare say kickbacks in the right directions are all that would be stalling this process occuring.


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## badger41 (8 June 2010)

Anyone care to speculate why the Indonesian (and where applicable) Sri Lankan navies are not intercepting and turning back these boats? After all, we supposedly have friendly diplomatic relations with both countries.


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## Happy (8 June 2010)

prawn_86 said:


> I dont normally input into these types of threads, but agree.
> 
> We have close family friends who are Swiss, and speak peerfect english. He is an engineer, she is a mental health nurse and they did not get accepted with a visa that would lead into citizenship.
> 
> Go figure....




This is what worries me too.

Why don't at least get good proportion of happy immigrants who do not come with missery, trauma and the need to do things ILLEGALLY?


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## derty (8 June 2010)

Putty7 said:


> ... I dare say the handful of people living in Leonora would also not be happy...



All the news we are getting just down the road in  Kalgoorlie has most of Leonora looking forward to the housing of the refugees there. Local businesses are set to benefit from the influx and their seemed to be quite a bit of disappointment at the delay of the arrival. There appears to be some confusion associated with the schooling of the kids and the actual date of arrival and most of this appears to be due to poor communication from the department. An interviewed local resident expressed concerns with the camp and the lack of any security fencing like on Xmas Island. 




Happy said:


> Why don't at least get good proportion of happy immigrants who do not come with missery, trauma and the need to do things ILLEGALLY?



Happy, if you had fled from your country due to persecution and had the choice of either sitting in a camp in a tent  with your family on the border of Pakistan for who knows how many years while you wait for some nation to accept your application or spending all you had to potentially get your family into a country like Australia, which would you choose? I would personally choose the latter if I had the means and I can't really blame them for trying.

The real CRIMINALS in this whole exploit are the people smugglers, not those seeking a better life for their families.


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## roland (8 June 2010)

derty said:


> The real CRIMINALS in this whole exploit are the people smugglers, not those seeking a better life for their families.




Sometimes, one wonders just how much of a "criminal" the "people smugglers" are. In actual fact some are instrumental in the saving of many lives.


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## nunthewiser (8 June 2010)

WHY are my tax dollars being used to buy these people coke, ciggarettes and other luxury items to the value of 5k from the leonora supermarket?

its bad enough MY dollars are being used to house/feed them . how about gettin a work crew of these buggers out to my block and build me a bloody skate park for the young bloke so they can earn it just like i bloody well have to ..

Stick ya soft line approach to these people up ya clacker , im sick of my dollars going to these queue jumpers to be spent on crap when people from MY country go without.


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## GumbyLearner (8 June 2010)

nunthewiser said:


> WHY are my tax dollars being used to buy these people coke, ciggarettes and other luxury items to the value of 5k from the leonora supermarket?
> 
> its bad enough MY dollars are being used to house them . how about gettin a work crew of these buggers out to my block and build me a bloody skate park for the young bloke so they can earn it just like i bloody well have to ..
> 
> Stick ya soft line approach to these people up ya clacker , im sick of my dollars going to these queue jumpers to be spent on crap when people from MY country go without.




Because the Government cannot afford you nun or me for that matter.
They also claim to not be able afford to solve the indigenous housing shortage even after all they have promised.

Get over it mate. Just pay your taxes and be quiet. LOL!


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## nunthewiser (8 June 2010)

GumbyLearner said:


> Get over it mate. Just pay your taxes and be quiet. LOL!




Bollocks.


might as well go on the dole and kick back for a few years i reckon .

No incentive to go make a buck anymore .

Got what i need , how about you guys pay my way for  a while.


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## nunthewiser (8 June 2010)

nunthewiser said:


> Bollocks.
> 
> 
> might as well go on the dole and kick back for a few years i reckon .
> ...




Oh man .

just stewing here and this idea sounding mighty fine .....

A transfer of assets.

 I reckon its only fair that you guys pay my booze and smokes bill for a while.


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## GumbyLearner (8 June 2010)

nunthewiser said:


> Bollocks.
> 
> 
> might as well go on the dole and kick back for a few years i reckon .
> ...




I'm hearing you nun. 

What is so unattractive about working in the outback on a 6 figure salary (with benefits)?

I read today that the RSPT was based on an economists evaluation from the 1940's by the name of Cory Brown. 

DYOR

New policy??? New grab???

This is Australia!


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## Putty7 (9 June 2010)

nunthewiser said:


> WHY are my tax dollars being used to buy these people coke, ciggarettes and other luxury items to the value of 5k from the leonora supermarket?
> 
> its bad enough MY dollars are being used to house/feed them . how about gettin a work crew of these buggers out to my block and build me a bloody skate park for the young bloke so they can earn it just like i bloody well have to ..
> 
> Stick ya soft line approach to these people up ya clacker , im sick of my dollars going to these queue jumpers to be spent on crap when people from MY country go without.




Im sure anyone who is homeless living on the street in Australia would agree with you nun, Im sure young families struggling to pay their mortgage would also agree with you just to name a few, does anyone in politics have the balls to put a stop to it, it doesn't appear so anytime soon, that is the problem. At least Howard forced their hand and either turned them around or forced them to scuttle the ship, not so inviting to come here when you are not welcomed with open arms. 

Unfortunately when there is demand someone is always willing to supply, cutting them off at the pass is the best option instead of putting a band aid on it and hiding them in the outback, getting rid of people smugglers is the best solution. 

Indonesia and Sri Lanka would be quite happy to see them sail onto Australia, why would they want the hassle when they can let the dumb Aussies pay for it.

Incidently weather it is a local media drum up or not there are now reports of protests by the locals in Leonora, so apparently nun you aren't alone in your thoughts.


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## So_Cynical (9 June 2010)

roland said:


> Sometimes, one wonders just how much of a "criminal" the "people smugglers" are. In actual fact some are instrumental in the saving of many lives.




Saving lives  are you serious?  please tell me how Afghani or Tamil refugees are in danger of being killed while living in Indonesia?


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## roland (9 June 2010)

So_Cynical said:


> Saving lives  are you serious?  please tell me how Afghani or Tamil refugees are in danger of being killed while living in Indonesia?




That's an odd question, are you suggesting all the refugees come from Indonesia? Or are you suggesting Indonesia should take in all of the refugees..


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## Eljet Trader (11 June 2010)

Happy, if you had fled from your country due to persecution and had the choice of either sitting in a camp in a tent  with your family on the border of Pakistan for who knows how many years while you wait for some nation to accept your application or spending all you had to potentially get your family into a country like Australia, which would you choose? I would personally choose the latter if I had the means and I can't really blame them for trying.

The real CRIMINALS in this whole exploit are the people smugglers, not those seeking a better life for their families.[/QUOTE]




I absolutely agree.  One of the big issues I have with some of the lads on the boats when we have been up for over 30 hours straight is that if the shoe was on the other foot, what would you do?  For me... hell I'm going to Australia.

In regards to why the Indonesians don't do something about it.... ?  Has anyone else noticed that everything we do in the last ten years has been dictated by some sub paragraph in the legal system?  I can't believe how much how lives are controlled by what you can/can't do these days.  Anyway, the short answer that I know of is.... the Indonesian Government's hands are tied due to the legality.  I know that they report when boats are leaving or preparing to leave...  A few operations have been shut down in the past... however, you've got to wonder how much corruption is involved.  I wish I knew more about this.


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## pilots (12 June 2010)

E Trader, Why don't they stay in Indonesia??, I don't see any wars in Indonesia. The reason they all want to come here is the fact they can live on WELFARE. Did you know that they get Free phone calls each day any place in the world. I know old people here in Perth who can not afford a phone.


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## DB008 (12 June 2010)

I agree with Prawn and pilots!
People getting knocked back who have genuine interests, yet these "refugees" come here, get on the dole, benefits, housing, medical, etc etc. Something just isn't right. 
We are a soft target! They pass through how many countries to get here? At least 5, why not stop in those countries on they way here? Because they don't get looked after like they do here. We are soft! Rudd, harden up bud!


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## Calliope (12 June 2010)

roland said:


> That's an odd question, are you suggesting all the refugees come from Indonesia? Or are you suggesting Indonesia should take in all of the refugees..




All the boat crews now in detention and awaiting trial for "people smuggling" in WA, NT and Qld are Indonesians. This would suggest the boats come from Indonesia. 

This raises the question as to why these people are classed as lawbreakers when the people they transport here are greeted with open arms when they arrive at Christmas Island.


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## pilots (12 June 2010)

Was on on the news just now we have 9000 people homeless in WA, what gets me when you see that the boat people get, Good beds, free food, free phone, free medical, free INTERNET, and so as the can stay fit we provide them with a swimming pool and a GYMNASIUM. What about our old people that have worked all their life here, making this the place what it is to day, they should come first.  Rudd you should hang your head in shame, or better still hang it in a noose.


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## todster (12 June 2010)

pilots said:


> Was on on the news just now we have 9000 people homeless in WA, what gets me when you see that the boat people get, Good beds, free food, free phone, free medical, free INTERNET, and so as the can stay fit we provide them with a swimming pool and a GYMNASIUM. What about our old people that have worked all their life here, making this the place what it is to day, they should come first.  Rudd you should hang your head in shame, or better still hang it in a noose.






And about 8000 when Johnie was runnin the show and what were you whingeing about then.
Salvos are always looking for volunteers get active  if your so passionate about it.
What do you recommend gas chambers perhaps.
What about the thousands who overstay there visas or are they a different kind of illegal,if there found not to be refos they will sent back its the fair go you get here that makes us a prime target
What did Howard do in 10 years about homeless people


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## pilots (12 June 2010)

todster said:


> And about 8000 when Johnie was runnin the show and what were you whingeing about then.
> Salvos are always looking for volunteers get active  if your so passionate about it.
> What do you recommend gas chambers perhaps.
> What about the thousands who overstay there visas or are they a different kind of illegal,if there found not to be refos they will sent back its the fair go you get here that makes us a prime target
> What did Howard do in 10 years about homeless people




I was VERY HAPPY when Johnie was running the show, tell me how many boat people came to Australia the last five years that he was running the show, then tell me how many have arrived after Rudd the Dud started running the show. By the way when that Johnie was running the show he had money in the bank, WHAT HAVE WE GOT TO DAY. LOL.LOL. Now as to the overstays, sure they should not be here, but you will find that 99% of all them overstays that are here are working NOT ON WELFARE. Look after Australians first I say.


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## todster (12 June 2010)

Well i spose it is election time and a good time for the media to drum up some boat people fear for another grubby campaign to suck in the usual suspects.
Bring back the red arrows invading us,crikey they already rolled out that old chestnut.
But even if the Libs get in i bet ya the homeless dont get a better deal
Try and get welfare without an address or bank account
If we go to an election on boat people we deserve what we get more mediocre morons as far as i see its dumb or dumber


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## pilots (12 June 2010)

Todster, at the next election we will only have to ask two questions, one what have you done, two how will you ever pay back what you have borrowed.
Answer to the first, nothing, answer to the second, will never be payed back, the Libs will have to do that. Rudds days are numbered and he knows that.


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## todster (12 June 2010)

Business in Leonora will reap the rewards no doubt not totally wasted if youlive in these small towns yousee the money goes round and round one mans waste is anothers cash bonanza.
Its only your interpretation
Theres a man in Leonora Laughing his rsssse off and good luck to him


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## Julia (12 June 2010)

pilots said:


> Now as to the overstays, sure they should not be here, but you will find that 99% of all them overstays that are here are working NOT ON WELFARE. Look after Australians first I say.






todster said:


> Try and get welfare without an address or bank account



Todster, pilots wasn't suggesting overstayers are accessing welfare.
As he correctly pointed out, most of them are working.
And they will at least have entered the country on a valid visa which means some checking into their background will have taken place.

And re your remarks about homeless people, I completely agree.
How is it that we can accommodate illegal immigrants in conditions akin to a resort with gymnasiums and pools, while we have Australian citizens, often mentally ill, on the streets.
I know where I'd prefer my tax dollars to be going.


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## todster (12 June 2010)

Julia said:


> Todster, pilots wasn't suggesting overstayers are accessing welfare.
> As he correctly pointed out, most of them are working.
> And they will at least have entered the country on a valid visa which means some checking into their background will have taken place.
> 
> ...




Well Julia i dont know if you have any idea where Leonora is but i dont think the illegals will have much chance of getting up to any mischief out there.
If they are working they have taken jobs off people looking for work?
Do we have scales of illegaltly or are they all playing the same game.
When the homeless have a bank account and an address and actually vote something might happen but can pretty much assure you it wont be from a Lib government.


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