# Piranha Profits - Adam Khoo trading system



## rk5075

Hi all,

First post here!

I'm curious to see if anyone else uses the Piranha Profits trading system by Adam Khoo? He is a technical swing-trader and has a number of videos and How-To's on YouTube, as well as a daily alert system. 

He has (imho) a very good money management and risk management system, with strict rules about how/when to enter and exit trades. He uses a number of strategies, mainly bounces of moving averages. His trade alerts seem to be a bit hit-and-miss though. 

Any thoughts on Adam's trading system?

Cheers,  Ron.


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## col123

Hi Ron,

In response to your post which I just came across, I am curious to find out how the Piranha Profits course and trade alerts have worked out for you?
I'm curious as I'm wondering whether the 600 quid for the online course is worth it? Would you recommend it?
Are you really making consistent profits?

Kind regards from Dublin/Ireland,
Colin


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## rk5075

Hi Colin,

Nine months on, I would say no, I was not making consistent profits with Adam's system.

I am reluctant to say that his system does not work; rather, it might be better to say it did not work for me. 

I traded Adam's system exclusively for 6 months, long/short equities and CFDs on the ASX, NASDAQ and NYSE. I took all of Adam's trade alerts and entered and exited them very mechanically.

Measuring my trading performance in terms of 'R' profit/loss, I was running at a 30R loss after 73 trades in 6 months. At 0.5% capital risk per trade, this was approx. 15% draw-down on my capital. My expectancy per trade was -0.4R.

I kept in touch with the Piranha Profits team over this time. Their comments were that the markets had been challenging in recent times; also that 70-odd trades was not statistically significant, and that large drawdowns in their system were normal.

This may be true, but it was not a a system which ultimately suited my style of trading.

What I would say is that the Piranha Profits system of position sizing and risk management is very good - and certainly, after running with this negative expectancy for 6 months, I was "only" down 15%. The system they use is consistent with, and very similar to, other systems I've seen used by professional traders. The system I am trading now uses the same cash and risk management fundamentals as the Piranha Profits system, but is much simpler in terms of trade entry/exit with much wider stops.

Everyone's trading style, risk tolerance and expectations are different. I'm not dissing Adam's system. Just observing that it wasn't for me.

Hope this helps!  


Cheers,  Ron.


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## peter2

Thanks Ron, I liked your post because you accurately described the experience that most beginning traders would have with *any* system. 

I also respect that you noted the system didn't fit your risk tolerance rather than "dis" the system itself. 

The first three months of 2018 were extremely volatile and most systems would have had a hard time earning profits through that period. However since Apr18 the US markets and the ASX have gone straight up. Any system marketed as profitable should have made up those losses from earlier in the year. 


I'm also pleased that you learned the importance of money management (only risking 0.5% per trade).

While I assume you're disappointed with the loss I think you learned some valuable lessons from the experience. All my best for your trading/investing future. 

Disclosure: I know nothing about Adam Khoo and his system(s).


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## tech/a

rk5075 said:


> He uses a number of strategies, *mainly bounces of moving averages*




Sorry but this is an alarm for me



rk5075 said:


> also that 70-odd trades was not statistically significant, and that *large drawdowns* in their system were *normal*.




Sorry another one.



rk5075 said:


> after running with this negative expectancy for 6 months, I was "only" down 15%




Anyone running negative for 6 mths following something black box is going to have anxiety and lack of motivation.
Being down *only *15% is not ok if you don't understand the mechanics.


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## col123

Dear Ron,

Thank you so much for the constructive answer!

If I understand you correctly the system itself is sound, at least you would recommend to have a look at it, learn and try, although it in the end wasn’t suited for you.

From your ~70  trades in 6 months, I take it you were looking at swing trading around 3 trades a week, just as I am.

Just to clarify: is it ironically the wider stops that are helping you achieve a better performance (?), so would you recommend that as tweak to Adam's system or something else altogether? May I ask if there is another system you would rather recommend for my swing trading type of style?

Happy Friday from Dublin,
Colin


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## rk5075

col123 said:


> If I understand you correctly the system itself is sound, at least you would recommend to have a look at it, learn and try, although it in the end wasn’t suited for you.




Hi Colin,

What I'd suggest is, try the Adam Khoo system if you it appeals to you, but devise your own system based on his free Youtube content and trade a demo account for 6 months. Don't use real money. If you can get a 6% return or better over 6 months, and find that it has a positive expectancy for you, then you'll probably do better than just putting all your cash into an ETF or index fund and hoping for the best.

Adam's money management and position sizing is very sound. But his system of trade entries and strategies never worked for me. They were a lot less successful than a 50/50 coin-flip.

I've all but given up on equities, I'm trading forex now with much more success. Forex is a different beast altogether. It makes a lot more sense to me and I'm much more profitable.

Trading is a long journey of self-discovery and you just have to find what suits you, in your timeframe, with your risk levels and your personal expectations. The longer I've been trading the more obvious it becomes to me that there's no "one" solution, system, indicator or market that always works. You need to experiment over time to find what's right for you.

Good luck Col, hammer that demo account and preserve your capital!  Avoiding losses and preserving your capital are just as important as winning entries.

Cheers, Ron.


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## tech/a

Cwang said:


> If Adam Khoo or whoever knows a systems or strategy to make money consistently, they should be doing it instead of organizing seminars to teach others how to do it. Their idea of making money for themselves is selling the seminars, not what's sold in the seminars.
> Always ask a simple question to yourself, IF you know a method to become a milliner, would you ever reveal your secret?!




In essence this is an often repeated Mantra.

To which in many circumstances I agree

*BUT*

Take Pete here at ASF if you alter the capital used in his trading methodology
fully disclosed (Other than his filtering and stock selection) you could well have 1 million.
At no cost to you.

People disclose secrets all the time and some if followed will get you to the magic figure.
AND they use them themselves. I do with everything I post in all fields.
Skates Dump thread has many words and sentences that if followed will make you a million.
I and Skate and a few others here can attest to this! All at no expense to the reader.

I don't hear any complaints.

*BUT
*
Add money to the equation and often this changes.
When you have nothing to lose then your happy to sit back and watch or try yourself.
Put $5K as a buy price then you have an expectation. Have it not perform and you have
negative $5k Plus Drawdown!

You cant blame people who see an opportunity to profit from something people think they see value in.
Yes its very wrong when they know that it has little or no value.
In the end though its up to you to do your due diligence. Lazy people tend to get taken very easily.

So in summary there are some very good courses and methods available.
Ill site one Dr Bruce Vanstone  http://bettersystemtrader.com/the-dna-approach-to-trading-with-bruce-vanstone/

Why does he sell his expertise---because he has it and others want it. (Or at least part of it).

http://bettersystemtrader.com/ebooks/


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## Cwang

Hello!
When you want to buy a trading strategy or a course, first you should make sure that this strategy worked and proven to have positive expectancy.

I personally discussed with 17 students of Adam and they all lose money. They all talked with Adam and received fancy words that keep going and you'll be profitable eventually! Which is never the case. Some made a small money is a short run, but no one, as far as I know, made a consistent return.

However, I talk based on facts and statistic here. I did a back testing on his trading signals he gave over the last 2 years on his telegram channel.
For the Forex, he gave 870 signals with total return of -70%. I ask him about this result and he said well, you should practice more and keep going. You will profitable eventually, consider a large sample  of trades and ... . However, I don't understand what to practice when he gave exact EP, Sl and TP?!! He said also, Stocks happen to be more profitable though!

For the Stocks however, I don't have personally access to his trading alert, course and systems, but one of his students send all of his trading alerts to me and I did a back testing there as well.
Since July 2017 till Dec 2018, he gave 326 trading alert. The total return was +9%. I contact Adam via his student and ask what he thinks?
He said well, Stock market was very unpredictable recently and ... . Forex is recently more profitable and you may try that!!!!!

So some simple questions: 

Do you think that 870 trades on Forex and 326 trades on Stock are large sample or not?
The total return of -70% for Forex and +9% for Stock over 2 years of trades is a success?

When his system does not work for himself, then how do you expect that it work for you?!! I am not agree with Ron who said that his strategy was not his style. When Adam suggests the best, high probability trades (this is what he said) based on his strategy and 20 years of experience and end up losing money then it is clear that Adam's strategies doesn't work. Not for a person or two but for no one, not even for himself.

I must admit that Adam is a clever guy and successfully convince many people to buy his course and seminars. This is the way that he made a LOT of money not by trading.


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## justanotherguy

Cwang, you do know that the trades posted on the Forex channel are not trades that are ready to be taken right? As far as i know, they are only potential trades that need to be validated by yourself before you take those trades. so your backtest is not accurate by any means. 

So please do not mislead others with that information.


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## tech/a

justanotherguy said:


> Cwang, *you do know that the trades posted on the Forex channel are not trades that are ready to be taken right? As far as i know, they are only potential trades that need to be validated by yourself before you take those trades*. so your backtest is not accurate by any means.
> 
> So please do not mislead others with that information.





Hahahahaha

Better then to be misled by that in Black!

Hilarious.


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## NoobTube

rk5075 said:


> Hi Colin,
> 
> What I'd suggest is, try the Adam Khoo system if you it appeals to you, but devise your own system based on his free Youtube content and trade a demo account for 6 months. Don't use real money. If you can get a 6% return or better over 6 months, and find that it has a positive expectancy for you, then you'll probably do better than just putting all your cash into an ETF or index fund and hoping for the best.
> 
> Adam's money management and position sizing is very sound. But his system of trade entries and strategies never worked for me. They were a lot less successful than a 50/50 coin-flip.
> 
> I've all but given up on equities, I'm trading forex now with much more success. Forex is a different beast altogether. It makes a lot more sense to me and I'm much more profitable.
> 
> Trading is a long journey of self-discovery and you just have to find what suits you, in your timeframe, with your risk levels and your personal expectations. The longer I've been trading the more obvious it becomes to me that there's no "one" solution, system, indicator or market that always works. You need to experiment over time to find what's right for you.
> 
> Good luck Col, hammer that demo account and preserve your capital!  Avoiding losses and preserving your capital are just as important as winning entries.
> 
> Cheers, Ron.




So Ron, do you have a Forex system that you recommend? I’m new to all this and just trying to learn the system. Thanks.


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## TottyB

NoobTube said:


> So Ron, do you have a Forex system that you recommend? I’m new to all this and just trying to learn the system. Thanks.



I have been told that imarkets live is good, but I have tried it myself.


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## rogo83

rk5075 said:


> Hi Colin,
> 
> Nine months on, I would say no, I was not making consistent profits with Adam's system.
> 
> I am reluctant to say that his system does not work; rather, it might be better to say it did not work for me.
> 
> I traded Adam's system exclusively for 6 months, long/short equities and CFDs on the ASX, NASDAQ and NYSE. I took all of Adam's trade alerts and entered and exited them very mechanically.
> 
> Measuring my trading performance in terms of 'R' profit/loss, I was running at a 30R loss after 73 trades in 6 months. At 0.5% capital risk per trade, this was approx. 15% draw-down on my capital. My expectancy per trade was -0.4R.
> 
> I kept in touch with the Piranha Profits team over this time. Their comments were that the markets had been challenging in recent times; also that 70-odd trades was not statistically significant, and that large drawdowns in their system were normal.
> 
> This may be true, but it was not a a system which ultimately suited my style of trading.
> 
> What I would say is that the Piranha Profits system of position sizing and risk management is very good - and certainly, after running with this negative expectancy for 6 months, I was "only" down 15%. The system they use is consistent with, and very similar to, other systems I've seen used by professional traders. The system I am trading now uses the same cash and risk management fundamentals as the Piranha Profits system, but is much simpler in terms of trade entry/exit with much wider stops.
> 
> Everyone's trading style, risk tolerance and expectations are different. I'm not dissing Adam's system. Just observing that it wasn't for me.
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> 
> Cheers,  Ron.



Hi 
Thanks for sharing the course with up! Much appreciate! I would like to know if you can share with me the formula that he uses in the tc2000, and the excels that he has. Thanks!!


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## willoneau

NoobTube said:


> So Ron, do you have a Forex system that you recommend? I’m new to all this and just trying to learn the system. Thanks.



If serious go to no-nonsense FX , alot of work but very helpful.


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## 1611

rk5075 said:


> Hi Colin,
> 
> Nine months on, I would say no, I was not making consistent profits with Adam's system.
> 
> I am reluctant to say that his system does not work; rather, it might be better to say it did not work for me.
> 
> I traded Adam's system exclusively for 6 months, long/short equities and CFDs on the ASX, NASDAQ and NYSE. I took all of Adam's trade alerts and entered and exited them very mechanically.
> 
> Measuring my trading performance in terms of 'R' profit/loss, I was running at a 30R loss after 73 trades in 6 months. At 0.5% capital risk per trade, this was approx. 15% draw-down on my capital. My expectancy per trade was -0.4R.
> 
> I kept in touch with the Piranha Profits team over this time. Their comments were that the markets had been challenging in recent times; also that 70-odd trades was not statistically significant, and that large drawdowns in their system were normal.
> 
> This may be true, but it was not a a system which ultimately suited my style of trading.
> 
> What I would say is that the Piranha Profits system of position sizing and risk management is very good - and certainly, after running with this negative expectancy for 6 months, I was "only" down 15%. The system they use is consistent with, and very similar to, other systems I've seen used by professional traders. The system I am trading now uses the same cash and risk management fundamentals as the Piranha Profits system, but is much simpler in terms of trade entry/exit with much wider stops.
> 
> Everyone's trading style, risk tolerance and expectations are different. I'm not dissing Adam's system. Just observing that it wasn't for me.
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> 
> Cheers,  Ron.





rk5075 said:


> Hi Colin,
> 
> Nine months on, I would say no, I was not making consistent profits with Adam's system.
> 
> I am reluctant to say that his system does not work; rather, it might be better to say it did not work for me.
> 
> I traded Adam's system exclusively for 6 months, long/short equities and CFDs on the ASX, NASDAQ and NYSE. I took all of Adam's trade alerts and entered and exited them very mechanically.
> 
> Measuring my trading performance in terms of 'R' profit/loss, I was running at a 30R loss after 73 trades in 6 months. At 0.5% capital risk per trade, this was approx. 15% draw-down on my capital. My expectancy per trade was -0.4R.
> 
> I kept in touch with the Piranha Profits team over this time. Their comments were that the markets had been challenging in recent times; also that 70-odd trades was not statistically significant, and that large drawdowns in their system were normal.
> 
> This may be true, but it was not a a system which ultimately suited my style of trading.
> 
> What I would say is that the Piranha Profits system of position sizing and risk management is very good - and certainly, after running with this negative expectancy for 6 months, I was "only" down 15%. The system they use is consistent with, and very similar to, other systems I've seen used by professional traders. The system I am trading now uses the same cash and risk management fundamentals as the Piranha Profits system, but is much simpler in terms of trade entry/exit with much wider stops.
> 
> Everyone's trading style, risk tolerance and expectations are different. I'm not dissing Adam's system. Just observing that it wasn't for me.
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> 
> Cheers,  Ron.





Hi Ron
Would you mind sharing which ones you then used for your forex trading after your experience with piranha profits please. Thanks


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## realitycheck

Hi there,

I took Adam Khoo's Wealth Academy course which is similar to what he is offering under the Value Momentum Investing Course (Whale Investor). He allows students to access his portfolio. The pictures below is a snapshot of his portfolio as of 21-Mar-2020. Bewarned, he is not as good as he claims. Below is concrete proof of that.











rk5075 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> First post here!
> 
> I'm curious to see if anyone else uses the Piranha Profits trading system by Adam Khoo? He is a technical swing-trader and has a number of videos and How-To's on YouTube, as well as a daily alert system.
> 
> He has (imho) a very good money management and risk management system, with strict rules about how/when to enter and exit trades. He uses a number of strategies, mainly bounces of moving averages. His trade alerts seem to be a bit hit-and-miss though.
> 
> Any thoughts on Adam's trading system?
> 
> Cheers,  Ron.


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## Neeki

rk5075 said:


> Hi Colin,
> 
> Nine months on, I would say no, I was not making consistent profits with Adam's system.
> 
> I am reluctant to say that his system does not work; rather, it might be better to say it did not work for me.
> 
> I traded Adam's system exclusively for 6 months, long/short equities and CFDs on the ASX, NASDAQ and NYSE. I took all of Adam's trade alerts and entered and exited them very mechanically.
> 
> Measuring my trading performance in terms of 'R' profit/loss, I was running at a 30R loss after 73 trades in 6 months. At 0.5% capital risk per trade, this was approx. 15% draw-down on my capital. My expectancy per trade was -0.4R.
> 
> I kept in touch with the Piranha Profits team over this time. Their comments were that the markets had been challenging in recent times; also that 70-odd trades was not statistically significant, and that large drawdowns in their system were normal.
> 
> This may be true, but it was not a a system which ultimately suited my style of trading.
> 
> What I would say is that the Piranha Profits system of position sizing and risk management is very good - and certainly, after running with this negative expectancy for 6 months, I was "only" down 15%. The system they use is consistent with, and very similar to, other systems I've seen used by professional traders. The system I am trading now uses the same cash and risk management fundamentals as the Piranha Profits system, but is much simpler in terms of trade entry/exit with much wider stops.
> 
> Everyone's trading style, risk tolerance and expectations are different. I'm not dissing Adam's system. Just observing that it wasn't for me.
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> 
> Cheers,  Ron.



What system are you using now?


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## marcal

Hi,
Someone have or can make available the docs of Adam Khoo?
I'm talking about the files in the url:
http://www.adam-khoo.com/bizandmoneytips.html
Thanks


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