# Sexual harrassment



## basilio (21 October 2017)

After 30 years of " no one saying, no one asking" the worst kept secret of Hollywood final blew up. Harvey Weinsten was accused of being a serial sexual harrasser of women and finally the message was heard.

The fallout has been dramatic for Harvey and his company. He is now a pariah. His wife has left him. He faces multiple legal charges and hundreds perhaps thousands of women are telling or repeating their stories of his sexual aggression.

On the bigger stage however thousands of other women (and men) coming forth with their experiences of  harrassment as children, students, employees and just people on the street.

So what could happen as an outcome of this widespread revolt against unwanted assault ? What could change ? 

What does sexual harrassment under Harvey Weisten sound like ? How would you feel ?

A Reporter at Large
October 23, 2017 Issue
*From Aggressive Overtures to Sexual Assault: Harvey Weinstein’s Accusers Tell Their Stories*
*Multiple women share harrowing accounts of sexual assault and harassment by the film executive.*

By Ronan Farrow

Check story for link to audio tape of Harvey hitting on a young actress
.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news...harvey-weinsteins-accusers-tell-their-stories


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## SirRumpole (21 October 2017)

A lot of people knew but did nothing. Same with Jimmy Saville. 

The industry has to change, but maybe there should b a "sexual assault" ombudsman. Trouble is to prevent it being a witch-hunt that has to come up with cases to prove that it is needed.

eg the Human Rights Commission.


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## tech/a (21 October 2017)

i know of Three people on the other side.
IE falsely accused.

2 in private enterprise and one a teacher.
In these cases peoples lives can be destroyed while the false
accusers remains in tact. Vengeance in all 3 cases.

Very sad out comes for 2


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## basilio (21 October 2017)

tech/a said:


> i know of Three people on the other side.
> IE falsely accused.
> 
> 2 in private enterprise and one a teacher.
> ...




Hmm.. I think that is an exceptionally one sided view. I don't doubt there are false accusations but the reality how women are harrassed and squeezed for sex without comeback is overwhelmingly extensive.
If I had to pick a particular instance you couldn't go past Donald Trump managing to become President despite his own admitted behaviours  and many unrelated  complants of sexual harrassment. 

Having said that perhaps the time is right to review Donald Trump behaviour  and capcity to lie through his teeth about it.

*Trump Accuser Demands Release Of Documents On All His Sexual Assault Allegations*
*Summer Zervos, who claims Trump groped her without consent, is suing the president for defamation.*
16/10/2017 6:01 AM AEDT | *Updated* 16/10/2017 6:01 AM AEDT
36.2 K

  Daniel Marans  Reporter, HuffPost
X

A woman who accused President Donald Trump  of unwanted groping has subpoenaed all documents held by his presidential campaign about any harassment and assault allegations against him, BuzzFeed News reported Saturday.

Summer Zervos, a former contestant on “The Apprentice” and one of many women who came forward during the campaign to accuse Trump of harassment or assault, initiated the subpoena as part of her lawsuit against the president for defamation. Zervos decided to sue Trump in January months after the then-presidential candidate denied the allegation and dismissed all of his accusers as liars.

In her bid to establish that Trump “defamed” her, Zervos’s subpoena aims to prove how Trump deliberately tried to discredit her and the other accusers. 

The subpoena, which is liable to renew public attention on the numerous allegations against Trump, sets the stage for another legal and political headache for the president.

Zervos’ subpoena requires him to turn over all documents “concerning any accusations that were made during Donald J. Trump’s election campaign for president, that he subjected any woman to unwanted sexual touching and/or sexually inappropriate behavior.” The order would cover documents about Zervos, as well as other women who accused Trump of groping, including, but not limited to, Jessica Leeds, Mindy McGillivray, Rachel Crooks, Natasha Stoynoff, Temple Taggart, Kristin Anderson, Cathy Heller, Jill Harth, and Jessica Drake.

Zervos’ legal team, which includes nationally renowned women’s rights attorney Gloria Allred, issued the subpoena in March, but it only entered the court record in September.

Trump’s attorneys tried to get the suit dismissed in March on the grounds that the president is immune from being sued while in office. They also tried to dismiss the subpoena in July, arguing that it “seeks wholly irrelevant information intended solely to harass the president.”

During Trump’s campaign, he vowed to sue the women who accused him of assault and harassment, but he has not followed through on the promise.






	

		
			
		

		
	
 Mike Blake / Reuters
Summer Zervos, a former contestant on "The Apprentice," is suing President Donald Trump for defamation after he denied groping her without consent.
The subpoena comes to light at a moment of heightened public sensitivity to the impunity given to many powerful men allowing them to sexually harass and assault women. Famed Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein was fired by the company he founded and expelled from the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences after the New York Times reported earlier this month that Weinstein had settled numerous accusations of sexual harassment out of court. The report prompted a flood of additional allegations against Weinstein, including claims that he physically assaulted women and forced them to perform sex acts.

The allegations against Weinstein bear an eerie resemblance to the accounts of many Trump accusers.

At least 16 women have publicly accused Trump of forcibly attempting to kiss, grope and have sex with them. Many of those women came forward in October 2016 following the leaked 2005 video of Trump bragging to “Access Hollywood” host Billy Bush that he freely touches women without their consent, infamously stating that he can “grab them by the pussy.”

Zervos said that in 2007 Trump summoned her to meet about professional matters on several occasions and then kissed, groped and humped her against her will.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/en...mp-sexual-assault_us_59e3a30de4b03a7be5816360


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## basilio (21 October 2017)

Returning to the impact the Weinsten case is having on awareness of harrassment and use of power to coerce (mainly) women in the workplace.

I thought these articles had something to add.

*'It's been a long time coming:' mogul's downfall sparks a 'Weinstein effect' of calling out harassment*
*After awareness-raising, it's time to take action on sexual assault and harassment: activists*
By Jessica Wong, CBC News Posted: Oct 20, 2017 2:38 PM ET Last Updated: Oct 20, 2017 2:38 PM ET





The mounting allegations against Hollywood mogul Harvey Weinstein have ignited a powerful, widespread discussion about how pervasive sexual harassment and assault remain today. (Dimitrios Kambouris/Getty Images for TNT)

*Related Stories*

 Former teen actress alleges Harvey Weinstein sexually harassed her 
 Flood of #MeToo sexual assault stories shatters 'culture of silence,' creates bonds 
 'Now that we are speaking, let us never shut up:' Lupita Nyong'o, Quentin Tarantino on Harvey Weinstein 
 Montreal police set up hotline for sexual assault complainants 
 Where do men fit in #MeToo conversations about sexual violence? 
 U.S. Olympic gymnast: 'I thought I was going to die that night' 
 When powerful men run the show, can Hollywood really stamp out abuse? 
The mounting allegations against Hollywood mogul Harvey Weinstein have ignited a powerful, widespread discussion — online and off — about how pervasive sexual harassment and assault remain in our society today.

It's provoked a sort of "Weinstein effect," with waves of accusers coming forward to publicly call out powerful figures, and institutions acknowledging their allegations and quickly responding — heartening activists who've long battled sexual harassment.


'Now that we are speaking, let us never shut up:' Lupita Nyong'o, Quentin Tarantino on Harvey Weinstein

"It's been a long time coming," journalist and documentary filmmaker Francine Pelletier told CBC Radio's _Daybreak_ in Montreal this week, describing the "fast and furious" number of revelations emerging about high-profile men.

In Quebec alone, this week saw Just for Laughs president Gilbert Rozon, media personality Éric Salvail and radio host Gilles Parent removed amid allegations of sexual misconduct.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/weinstein-wave-callout-harassment-1.4363658


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## tech/a (21 October 2017)

Not a one sided view
A fact
There are many terrible cases of harassment sexual and plain bullying 

But there IS a flip side if you get on the wrong side of it
Victimisation can be more damning to the accused than the genuine victims.

Suicide is pretty drastic


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## wayneL (21 October 2017)

I wonder how many of the Hollywood dems who covered up for  him so long have bagged out Trump?


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## Smurf1976 (22 October 2017)

Sexual harassment is one problem and I don't want to trivialise that in any way.

It's one aspect of a broader problem however where some individuals in a position of relative power exploit others.

Taking advantage of their position of relative strength is the first part. Psychological abuse to leave the victim feeling worthless or less capable and thus trapped by the abuser is the other part.

Personal relationships, any arrangement where money is involved, even things like charity or sports teams it can happen. Abuse of the elderly or disabled is another example. All it needs is one person to have relative power over another and to unreasonably exploit it.

Sadly I've seen it happen where the gain for the abuser was nothing more than pure personal enjoyment through exercising their power over another. No sex involved, no monetary or similar gain, they just enjoyed keeping others down.

I haven't seen any statistics but I think it's a bigger problem in society than most realise.

It's one area where government needs to lead in my view. It's not just physical violence or sexual abuse, there's a far broader issue.


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## sptrawler (22 October 2017)

Smurf1976 said:


> Sexual harassment is one problem and I don't want to trivialise that in any way.
> 
> It's one aspect of a broader problem however where some individuals in a position of relative power exploit others.
> 
> ...




I agree with you completely, we had a shop steward, who intimidated everyone( well not everyone) but most.
He is now in upper management,in another company in another State, he was just an oversized A hole.
I've found over my life, that these people end up at a sad end, usually because those nearest and dearest see them for what they are.


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## basilio (22 October 2017)

Interesting thoughts. I suppose what I see most clearly is a mens view. What happens for example if a women makes a false allegation ? What are the consequences  ?

Obviously no good  but in fairness the opposite situation is far, far more common. That is that women (or men) who are harrassed or abused or raped are  disbelieved and as result face the double trauma of the action and then the disbelief.

This was one of the most striking elements of the children abused by priests etc. In almost all cases any child who spoke up was abused by parents and the Church for saying such evil things.

In the broader sense it is quite true to recognise abuse/harrassment by people in power, particularly in the work place. I suggest that this topic is more readily recognised because men are also very directly affected.

I opened this thread because I believed the downfall of Harvey Weinstein was a good opportunity to think about the broader experience of the women in our lives. From my experience I believe almost every woman I have had a reasonable friendship with has told me of incidents of harrasment, abuse or violence. Very few of these incidents was reported.

How would it feel to be harrassed ? Consider this  from a womens view..

_"Imagine that you’ve taken your car to a mechanic to get it fixed. You’ve come back to pick up your car after closing time. It’s just you & the mechanic at the shop. _

_This mechanic is bigger & stronger than you. He tells you it’s going to take an hour to finish fixing your car, you might as well wait. He compliments your ass & it soon becomes clear that this mechanic is attracted to you. _

_You let him know that you are straight & that you’re not interested. He apologizes but tells you anyway how much he would like to xuck you. Even though you’ve made it clear that’s not going to happen, he tells you a few more times how much he would like to xuck you & asks if he can at least give your ass a squeeze. He’s being nice, not aggressive but he then tries to rub your crotch & asks if he can see your asshole. He keeps asking for more even though you say no. _

_Again, you are all alone with him & you can’t leave yet because he hasn’t finished fixing your car._

_He continues to tell you what a great ass you have, that you’re just so sexy & how much he would like to xuck you._

_Are you imagining this? How do you feel? Do you feel uncomfortable? Do you think you would find that fun or enjoyable? He’s complimenting you & just telling you what he would like to do. He keeps asking for what you’ve said no to, but he’s nice about it. He isn’t being aggressive but you don’t know this guy, if you reject him too hard or if you’re rude, who knows what he might do? He might rape you or hurt you. He might not fix your car. You don’t know, do you?"_


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## SirRumpole (22 October 2017)

sptrawler said:


> I agree with you completely, we had a shop steward, who intimidated everyone( well not everyone) but most.
> He is now in upper management,in another company in another State, he was just an oversized A hole.
> I've found over my life, that these people end up at a sad end, usually because those nearest and dearest see them for what they are.




Yes there are psychopaths in every industry. They usually rise quickly because they have the art of bullying people to do the work and then take credit for it themselves, they can lie without compunction and come over as charming to those who have power to promote them. They can divide and conquer their employees, punishing those who oppose while rewarding those who suck up to them.

Dangerous people. Can we think of an example in international politics ?


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## basilio (22 October 2017)

Now if you want to discuss some other notable media figures who have been involved in multiple sexual harrassment of junior  female colleagues or guests whose livilhood was based on being  "agreeable"  check out Bill O Reilly and  Fox Chairman Roger Ailes.

* Bill O'Reilly settled $32m sexual harassment claim before signing Fox News deal – report *

21st Century Fox says it knew of NYT-reported settlement with analyst
O’Reilly was ousted over other settlements totalling $13m months later



Bill O’Reilly poses on the set of his show The O’Reilly Factor, in New York in 2015. Photograph: Brendan Mcdermid/Reuters

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Reuters in New York

Saturday 21 October 2017 23.16 BST   First published on Saturday 21 October 2017 23.00 BST

Bill O’Reilly, the Fox News commentator who was forced to resign in April, agreed to a $32m sexual harassment settlement in January which the network’s parent knew about when it gave him a new contract the next month, the New York Times reported on Saturday.

The previously undisclosed agreement, at least the sixth involving O’Reilly or the company related to harassment charges against him, was “extraordinarily large” for such cases, according to the newspaper, which cited two people “briefed on the matter”.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/oct/21/bill-oreilly-32m-harassment-claim-fox-news-deal


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## Gringotts Bank (22 October 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Yes there are psychopaths in every industry. They usually rise quickly because they have the art of bullying people to do the work and then take credit for it themselves, they can lie without compunction and come over as charming to those who have power to promote them. They can divide and conquer their employees, punishing those who oppose while rewarding those who suck up to them.




Yep!  I've been in one job where the manager was a complete a-hole.  You know what I did?  *I left.*  I walked out and told them to shove it.  I was without any income at all for 3 months.  Since I left, about 10 others left within 2 years.  In this organization, I was totally powerless to complain.... totally.  But there was no way I was going to compromise with that prick of a manager.  No way.

Now what about if these Hollywood starlets showed the same fortitude and walked out when faced with a bully?  Oh no, it's better to compromise your morals, sleep with the creep, then complain later.  What a joke.  Most *normal *women would slap, scream, kick and do whatever necessary to get the message across, then never go near him again.


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## basilio (22 October 2017)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Now what about if these Hollywood starlets showed the same fortitude and walked out when faced with a bully? Oh no, it's better to compromise your morals, sleep with the creep, then complain later. What a joke. Most *normal *women would slap, scream, kick and do whatever necessary to get the message across, then never go near him again.




Nice one Gringott. You certainly seem to live in a Black/White Judgement world.

Maybe the point of this thread was to explore the type of world where men are allowed to hit on women as a matter of right and destiny and women have to cope with this this xhit in whatever way they can ?

Have you read the story I started the thread with ? Did you listen to Harveys power/manipulation play on the young actress? Perhaps worth adding to your knowledge base ?
_______________________________________________________
And one more thing. Saying that "most* normal* woman would scratch, scream and kick their way out of trouble" is about as xhitty a way of responding to the experiences of almost every woman I know as can be imagined.


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## basilio (22 October 2017)

More fallout from Harvey Weinstein.

And Gringott this one followed your advice.  In fact there were more than a few actresses who just left the industry after being harrassed by Harvey Weinstein.

* Harvey Weinstein scandal: More women come forward *

*Jayme Deerwester and Maria Puente*
19 reading now

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Power lawyer Gloria Allred has brought forth a new Harvey Weinstein accuser, former actress Heather Kerr, 56, who claims Weinstein exposed himself to her and told her she had to sleep with him and other Hollywood producers and directors in order to succeed in the industry.

Kerr said Weinstein told her that is "how Hollywood works" when she met him alone at a Westwood office to discuss how he could help her
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/ent...-more-women-come-forward-20171021-gz5npf.html


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## basilio (22 October 2017)

And from the womens point of view.

* The way men have reacted to Weinstein fall-out says a lot about how women aren't heard *

*Natalie Reilly*

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Shockwaves continue to ripple out over the entertainment industry this week in the wake of the Weinstein scandal, with multitudes of actresses, models and even showrunners coming forward to speak about how Harvey Weinstein, and his brother, Bob, have sexually assaulted them.

Indeed, the Weinstein scandal has opened up countless old wounds for millions of sexual assault survivors.




Reese Witherspoon has spoken about her experiences of sexual assault.  Photo: AP
On Monday, actress Alyssa Milano began the "Me Too" campaign, asking women on social media to simply post "Me too" if they'd ever experienced sexual harassment.

*At press time, more than 12 million women – and not a few men – have posted the hashtag to their Twitter, Instagram and Facebook accounts.*

On Tuesday at the _Elle_ Women in Hollywood Awards, Reese Witherspoon and Jennifer Lawrence, two of the highest paid and most powerful stars in the game, both spoke publicly about their experiences of sexual harassment and assault on the job.

*Related Articles*

*'Director assaulted me when I was 16'*
*Donna Karan apologises (properly) for defending Weinstein*
After describing the events surrounding her assault at the age of 16, Witherspoon concluded by saying, "[I feel] true disgust at the director who assaulted me when I was 16 years old and anger at the agents and the producers who made me feel that silence was a condition of my employment."

Lawrence ended her speech – about how she was forced to strip down for a role, and sexually harassed by her director – on a similar note, saying, "I let myself be treated a certain way because I felt like I had to for my career."

These stories, the literal millions of them, are largely unsurprising to women. The surprise is that these stories are being told publicly, when they're usually told tearfully, or anxiously, or drunkenly, if they're told at all.

It has been men, generally speaking, who have been left shocked by these stories. And it's in the shadow of the Weinstein scandal that ordinary, often privileged men, have caught a glimpse of what it is to be female.




The Harvey Weinstein scandal has unleashed an outpouring of women sharing their experiences, and men asking why they didn't "do something" about it earlier.  Photo: AP
Liz Meriwether, writing for _New York _magazine shortly after Donald Trump's victims came forward last year, described it as thus, "Men who hear these stories, I've found, tend to interrogate you to get to the truth of what happened, then, if they believe you, they want retaliation or revenge. Men want rules to be enforced and authorities called. Women want those things, too, but we understand the complicated mental calculations that are forced on us."

And so begins the crux of another, seemingly more pedestrian problem between men and women. How many times has this cliche complaint been brought up in couples counselling and TV shows and _Oprah_:





Jennifer Lawrence: "I let myself be treated a certain way because I felt like I had to for my career." Photo: Vianney Le Caer
"When I'm upset, he goes straight to solution mode, when what I really want is empathy."

For many men, the crying looks unproductive – it can even look like self-pity. Meanwhile, women just want a hug, or even a nod; a signal that they are understood.

For years, the reason given was that men don't like feeling helpless, and this is certainly a factor. But perhaps the core reason so many men jump straight into problem solving is not just about testosterone or "boys don't cry" social conditioning, but something far more simple: when (white) men speak, action is taken.

If we cry about our boss, our husband can't understand it because he would tell the boss, and the boss would listen. If we wish out loud for a pay rise, the men we know will tell us to go ahead and ask, (because they've never been turned down, right Karl Stefanovic?).

If we wince over bad service at a restaurant, our male date might tell us to speak up, because the problem would be taken care of if he did. If we moan about our friend, our partner doesn't get it, because if he told his friend, he'd be heard.

In fact, it's almost a foregone conclusion that if a (white, middle class, heterosexual) man lodges a complaint, nobody is going to call him a bitch or a slut or a prude or an ungrateful whinger. Nobody is going to flip the facts back on him, and suggest he made it up or that he's over-reacting.
*
The phrase, "male privilege" has received a lot of exposure of late. We understand it as a measure of unconscious power. But in simple terms, privilege might also be expressed as how credible you are as a witness to your own life. 
*
*Men speak, and are believed. Women speak, and are told to sit back down.*

But now this silent gap, of how women have to metabolise every day abuses of power, is finally being shown for the gaping chasm it is. Men, in general, are beginning to understand how we must navigate our lives.

When someone hurts us, abuses us, harasses us, we sit with it and weigh it up, because we know we have to walk through life not believed, not listened to, not respected. If we are seen, it's through the male gaze, and we will be deemed sexual or ugly – either way, we will be reduced and objectified. Women don't expect solutions; at least not without backlash, or blame.

And so, we vent, we sit, we drink, we "process," because we know that in the end we will have to manage it. We just need to cry first.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/lif...ut-how-women-arent-heard-20171018-gz3as7.html


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## Gringotts Bank (22 October 2017)

basilio said:


> Maybe the point of this thread was to explore the type of world where men are allowed to hit on women as a matter of right and destiny and women have to cope with this this xhit in whatever way they can ?




Men _*are*_ allowed to hit on women.  And women _*are*_ allowed to reject them.  Do you understand that this is how relationships start?  The man approaches the woman and starts talking.  You seem to be conflating two distinctively different things - harassment and normal attraction behaviours.

If you hate men and feel threatened every time someone says 'Hi, how's it going?, that's your issue to work on.  Is that it?  Or are you saying that you get approached constantly without giving off signs of interest?  If it's the latter, I'd agree that sucks - men need to approach only when invited.  Some probably find subtle cues hard to read.


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## Logique (22 October 2017)

Hollywood has looked the other way for a long time on Weinstein (a Democrat donor and friend of the Clintons) and others like him.

While posturing as holier than thou on social issues.


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## basilio (22 October 2017)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Men _*are*_ allowed to hit on women. And women _*are*_ allowed to reject them. Do you understand that this is how relationships start? The man approaches the woman and starts talking. You seem to be conflating two distinctively different things - harassment and normal attraction behaviours.




Of course people can make approaches, start up conversations, have fun. No probs. 
I was referring to the behaviour outlined by the scores of women Weinstein harrassed, threatened, cajoled and abused. 
Can we keep the discussion to those situations ?


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## basilio (22 October 2017)

Logique said:


> Hollywood has looked the other way for a long time on Weinstein (a Democrat donor and friend of the Clintons) and others like him.
> 
> While posturing as holier than thou on social issues.




Fascinating. And I wonder what the far right thought about the repeated sexual assaults of Bill O Reilly and the Head of Fox News ?

This issue goes across politicl party spectrums. It's a power issue, an entitlement issue and a culture that finds it exceptionally hard to deal with the sociopaths who manage to become  powerful people.

That point has been well made by Sir Rumpole and Gringott. It's worth exploring.


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## moXJO (22 October 2017)

Harvey Weinstein used actresses and actresses used him.
Hollywood industry is a cesspool. Everyone knew and it wasn't until his power started to wane,  that he was finally called out. The guy was a disgusting pig, and all of them let it happen to further their own careers. 

In the real world this stuff is thankfully declining.


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## IFocus (22 October 2017)

basilio said:


> Fascinating. And I wonder what the far right thought about the repeated sexual assaults of Bill O Reilly and the Head of Fox News ?
> 
> This issue goes across politicl party spectrums. It's a power issue, an entitlement issue and a culture that finds it exceptionally hard to deal with the sociopaths who manage to become  powerful people.
> 
> That point has been well made by Sir Rumpole and Gringott. It's worth exploring.




Thinking the same no one side has the high moral ground here the Democrats were called out for the slow response but they did turn up eventually but plenty of the same from the Republicans.

It was extraordinary that Trump got up and was supported by a significant number of the Christian vote guess the same could be said about Bill Clinton etc.

Men in positions of power have long abused women then the mob turn up howling righteously how the women knew what they were in for.


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## basilio (22 October 2017)

And just for a bit of light relief and perhaps alternative Hollywood views on "hitting on people"


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## basilio (24 October 2017)

Good story in The Atlantic from another actress/writer who Weinsten harrassed.

It's all about money.


*Harvey Weinstein and the Economics of Consent*
The blunt power of the gatekeeper is the ability to enforce not just artistic, but also financial, exile.


Brit Marling

When the Harvey Weinstein story broke, I thought of something my mother told me when I was a little girl. She said: To be a free woman, you have to be a financially independent woman. She wasn’t wrong. I studied economics in college and went to New York to become an investment banker. To be blunt, I wanted the freedom money can buy.

I had a sudden change of heart while working at Goldman Sachs as a summer analyst. I decided that if the world required me to sell the hours of my life in exchange for access to what had long ago been free—food, water, shelter—I wanted to at least be doing something that stirred my soul. This is, granted, a privileged position. But as a young woman that was the conclusion I came to.

https://www.theatlantic.com/enterta...einstein-and-the-economics-of-consent/543618/


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## PZ99 (24 October 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Dangerous people. Can we think of an example in international politics ?



Yeah... 
Electricity Clinton > _"How was it for you?"_
Monica _> "Electric Blue!"





thankyouverymuch_


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## basilio (4 November 2017)

Some really interesting subtle points towards the end of this story. Jonathan notes how sensitive we are in offices and social situations when we notice bosses just giving a look or raising an eyebrow...
 

*On sexual harassment we men need to be clear: the problem is not women, it’s us *




Jonathan Freedland
It’s not good enough for men to complain that it’s all too complicated. In fact it’s very simple



‘The Westminster accusations have prompted a set of questions that have also been put to women rather than men.’ Photograph: Alamy Stock Photo

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Friday 3 November 2017 19.19 GMT   Last modified on Friday 3 November 2017 20.00 GMT

So much rubbish has been spoken by so many men about sexual harassment that it’s hard to nominate a winner. But a strong contender in a crowded field is surely Rick Perry, the US energy secretary who, when running for president, famously forgot which government department he wanted to close (it was, naturally, the department of energy).

Perry’s contribution to the debate now raging on both sides of the Atlantic – kickstarted by the revelations about Harvey Weinstein and which has now taken down several media bigwigs, along with Kevin Spacey and Michael Fallon – was to suggest the answer to sexual assault might be … fossil fuels. Perry’s logic was that electricity in African villages can give “light that shines the righteousness, if you will, on those types of acts”. It seems a street lamp powered by a renewable source would lack a similar degree of virtue.

Perry’s remarks are unlikely to find much of an echo. Louder, and more dispiriting, has been the chorus of voices, not all of them male, whose first reaction to the revelations of abuse, humiliation and assault by powerful men has been to decide that there is a series of tough questions that need to be answered – by women.

It’s hard to think of another scandal where the finger has been pointed so swiftly at the victims rather than the perpetrators

With Weinstein it was: why didn’t these women speak out earlier? Why did Hillary Clinton accept donations from this monster? (A question that was scarcely put to Barack Obama, even though he took twice as much money from Weinstein.) What were these women doing in a man’s hotel room anyway?

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ictims-confront-culprits-men-exploiting-power


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## Tisme (6 November 2017)

basilio said:


> Good story in The Atlantic from another actress/writer who Weinsten harrassed.
> 
> It's all about money.
> 
> ...





I really don't understand how the free press writes about about a bunch of people who make a living out of obfuscation and lying as if what they say is factual.

This latest event is a typical Jewish woke misogynist getting his marching orders by the Yiddish old boys and using their Jewess actress harem to deliver the goods.

Who cares.


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## basilio (6 November 2017)

Interesting twist in the tail of this story. Go to the source and read to the end to see how the writers mother is a part of this story.

* I didn't understand how widespread rape was. Then the penny dropped *
David Graeber
I’m a lefty academic versed in feminist theory. Still, I rebelled against the idea that rich and powerful men regularly rape or attempt to rape women


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Sunday 5 November 2017 11.00 GMT   Last modified on Sunday 5 November 2017 16.26 GMT

This is a very difficult column for me to write because it’s about my mother.

A week or two after the then IMF director Dominique Strauss-Kahn was arrested for sexually assaulting a chambermaid in a posh New York hotel in 2011, there was another case when an Egyptian businessman was briefly arrested for a similar assault at another such New York hotel.

This first struck me as puzzling. It could hardly be a copycat crime; considering the drama surrounding the arrest and travails of DSK, it was inconceivable that anyone would see this and say: “Oh good idea, I’ll attack a chambermaid as well.”

Then it dawned on me.

The only logical explanation was that businessmen, politicians, officials and financiers rape, or attempt to rape, hotel workers all the time. It’s just that normally, those assaulted know there’s nothing they can do about it.

In DSK’s case, someone – for whatever complex political reasons – must have refused to make the usual phone call. There was a scandal. As a result, when the next assault took place, the survivor must have said to herself, “Oh, so does this mean we actually _are_ allowed to call the cops now if a customer tries to rape us?” and acted accordingly. And sure enough this is precisely what turned out to have happened. (In the end, both women were silenced, and neither man convicted of any crime.)

What I really want to draw attention to here is my initial reaction of disbelief: “Sure things are bad; _but it can’t be that bad_.” Even a lefty academic versed in feminist theory instinctively rebelled against the idea that rich and powerful men regularly rape or attempt to rape the women cleaning their rooms, that this happens all the time, that everyone in the hotel industry knows it happens (since they must know), and that those rich and powerful men in turn know they could get away with it because if any woman they attacked did protest too strenuously, everyone would move in lockstep to do whatever was required to make the problem go away.

It’s of course this very disbelief that allows such things to happen. We are loth to accept people we might know might practice pure, naked aggression. This is how bullies get away with what they do. I’ve written about this.

Bullying is not just a relation between bully and victim. It’s really a three-way relation, between bully, victim and everyone who refuses to do anything about the aggression; all those people who say “boys will be boys” or pretend there’s some equivalence between aggressor and aggressed. Who see a conflict and say “it doesn’t matter who started it” even in cases where, in reality, nothing could possibly matter more. 
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...xual-assault-feminism-weinstein-casting-couch


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## moXJO (6 November 2017)

A lot of dirty bastards out there capitalizing on the wants of young girls. 
Drugs , money , fame...... take your pick and some girl is willing to lift her skirt.


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## basilio (6 November 2017)

moXJO said:


> A lot of dirty bastards out there capitalizing on the wants of young girls.
> Drugs , money , fame...... take your pick and some girl is willing to lift her skirt.




Maaybeeee....  I think the the overriding issue here is people  using  their power and position to force themselves on women.  

The story I quoted above had nothing to do with starlets lookig for opportunity. It was hotel maids being attacked on the premise that they wouldn't be believed if they protested because... .. they were maids and he was a big shot.


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## moXJO (6 November 2017)

basilio said:


> Maaybeeee....  I think the the overriding issue here is people  using  their power and position to force themselves on women.
> 
> The story I quoted above had nothing to do with starlets lookig for opportunity. It was hotel maids being attacked on the premise that they wouldn't be believed if they protested because... .. they were maids and he was a big shot.





basilio said:


> Maaybeeee....  I think the the overriding issue here is people  using  their power and position to force themselves on women.
> 
> The story I quoted above had nothing to do with starlets lookig for opportunity. It was hotel maids being attacked on the premise that they wouldn't be believed if they protested because... .. they were maids and he was a big shot.



Theres usually a tradeoff.
The Guardian is generally full of witch-hunts and truth stretches.

Most guys with money won't risk blowing themselves up for a quick rape. Why would you? I'm sure there are a few cases, but making out like its an epidemic is farfetched.


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## basilio (6 November 2017)

moXJO said:


> Theres usually a tradeoff.
> The Guardian is generally full of witch-hunts and truth stretches.
> 
> Most guys with money won't risk blowing themselves up for a quick rape. Why would you? I'm sure there are a few cases, but making out like its an epidemic is farfetched.




Nuh.. you don't have to believe The Guardian.  Maybe it's worth reading a few other analysis and trying to get a handle on why first a couple and then a dozen and then thousands of women are saying they have been harrassed/assaulted.


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## moXJO (6 November 2017)

basilio said:


> Nuh.. you don't have to believe The Guardian.  Maybe it's worth reading a few other analysis and trying to get a handle on why first a couple and then a dozen and then thousands of women are saying they have been harrassed/assaulted.



Harrassed  I believe.


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## basilio (8 November 2017)

How long does one have to read all the allegations made agaianst Harvey Weinsten ? These are only the first few. Totally toxic. And in no way just a bit of harrassment.

*The Weinstein allegations*
A list of the accusations made against Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein, who has denied many of the allegations

Last updated 4 hours ago

* I told him no. I kept pushing him away. He just wouldn’t listen. He just forced himself on me. Hope Exiner d'Amore *
Age 20s Year: 1970s Location: Park Lane Hotel

Ms. Exiner d'Amore alleges that Weinstein raped her, forcibly performing oral sex and intercourse after slipping into bed next to her naked. Source: The New York Times

* The way he forced me made me feel really bad about myself. What are you going to do when you are a girl just trying to make it as an actress? Nobody would have believed me. Cynthia Burr *
Age Early 20s Year: Late 1970s Location: Unspecified apartment building in New York

Weinstein allegedly kissed Ms. Burr, then an actress, in an elevator, before unzipping his pants and forcing her to perform oral sex on him in the hallway. Source: The New York Times
* He tried to encourage me by telling me what a fantastic opportunity it was for me to be part of this project. Paula Wachowiak *
Age 24 Year: 1980 Location: Unspecified hotel in New York state

Intern Wachowiak was invited to Weinstein's hotel room where he exposed himself and asked for a massage Source: The Buffalo News




* Mr Weinstein was quite calm about trying to explain to me that if I would at least take my top off, this would demonstrate to him that I wasn’t going to be shy about doing so in front of the cameras. Tomi-Ann Roberts *
Age 20 Year: 1984 Location: Unspecified hotel in New York

Weinstein invited Roberts to his hotel room to discuss a script, but was nude in the bathtub when she arrived. Source: Democracy Now

* He pushed me inside and rammed me up against the coat rack in my tiny hall and started fumbling at my gown. He was trying to kiss me and shove inside me. It was disgusting. Lysette Anthony *
Age Mid 20s Year: Late 1980s Location: Anthony's home in London

Weinstein turned up at Anthony's home, later buying her a coat that she saw as an apology Source: Sunday Times
https://www.theguardian.com/film/ng-interactive/2017/oct/13/the-weinstein-allegations


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## moXJO (8 November 2017)

basilio said:


> How long does one have to read all the allegations made agaianst Harvey Weinsten ? These are only the first few. Totally toxic. And in no way just a bit of harrassment.
> 
> *The Weinstein allegations*
> A list of the accusations made against Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein, who has denied many of the allegations
> ...



Your point being? 
Pretty sure Weinstein being a rapist is already out there.


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## greggles (13 November 2017)

There must be a lot of nervous entertainment industry professionals and politicians out there. It seems almost every couple of days there is another one being accused of sexual harassment. The Harvey Weinstein expose appears to have been the catalyst for the current round of allegations. A lot of people settling old scores. The damage this is doing to some people's careers may spark the beginning of a culture shift in certain industries. Those people who thought they could bully and intimidate victims into silence may begin to realise that this is a very risky proposition indeed, possibly a career ending one.


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## SirRumpole (13 November 2017)

greggles said:


> There must be a lot of nervous entertainment industry professionals and politicians out there. It seems almost every couple of days there is another one being accused of sexual harassment. The Harvey Weinstein expose appears to have been the catalyst for the current round of allegations. A lot of people settling old scores. The damage this is doing to some people's careers may spark the beginning of a culture shift in certain industries. Those people who thought they could bully and intimidate victims into silence may begin to realise that this is a very risky proposition indeed, possibly a career ending one.




They sent Rolf Harris to gaol for similar, but in my view lesser offences, so Weinstein may be for it. How the US jurisdiction treats such allegations may be different to the UK courts.


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## Tisme (13 November 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> They sent Rolf Harris to gaol for similar, but in my view lesser offences, so Weinstein may be for it. How the US jurisdiction treats such allegations may be different to the UK courts.




What Jew being judged by Jew Judge and 12 man Jewry? Surely you can't get more justice than that!!!


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## basilio (20 November 2017)

Has anyone here been "concerned" about the upcoming office Christmas party?  Just a bit worried that their efforts at a bit of slap and tickle could be taken badly and the sexual harrassment line would echo across their life into enternity. .. (almost..)

Well fear not.  There is an excellent article which examines just this conundrum and eventually comes up with the most brilliant advice for even the most muddle headed, red hot xoooter.

Putting it very simply.

_"The lesson here is that if you do have romantic feelings (or whatever..)  about a female colleague at a Christmas function - or in any work context, for that matter - imagine she's the CEO of your company. She has the power to fire you and blacklist you in the industry.

Are you still willing to do what you're about to do?

If the answer is yes, then it's probably fine. If the answer is no, then shut your mouth, keep your hands to yourself and walk away."

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/lif...e-office-christmas-party-20171119-gzoky4.html_


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## SirRumpole (20 November 2017)

basilio said:


> If the answer is yes, then it's probably fine. If the answer is no, then shut your mouth, keep your hands to yourself and walk away."




We know that alcohol does away with reason, so I doubt if people will be asking that question when half pi$$ed. I can see the situation coming when there will have to be teetotal chaperones at Christmas parties to ensure proper behaviour and men will need a signed consent form to avert any action afterwards.


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## basilio (20 November 2017)

Rumpy I'm not sure if you actually read the article in total but  I think you have very tenaciously missed the point.
Casey Edwards was pretty clear. Most tacky harrassment type behaviours are usually initiated by  the more powerful person.  If one imagined that the person you were going to "cop-a'feel"with was the CEO who could have you fired and then destroy your chance of working in the industry again -- you would have to be suicidally drunk to go for it.


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## SirRumpole (20 November 2017)

basilio said:


> Rumpy I'm not sure if you actually read the article in total but  I think you have very tenaciously missed the point.
> Casey Edwards was pretty clear. Most tacky harrassment type behaviours are usually initiated by  the more powerful person.  If one imagined that the person you were going to "cop-a'feel"with was the CEO who could have you fired and then destroy your chance of working in the industry again -- you would have to be suicidally drunk to go for it.




Bas I did read it and I thought it was totally hypothetical. She's right in principle but I was just saying that when people get drunk, rational thought goes out the window, for the simple reason that perps know they are not groping the CEO so that type of instruction doesn't work.  It's just the same as saying to a criminal "stop and think what you are doing or you will land up in gaol". If every crim did that we wouldn't need gaols , but they don't so we do .


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## wayneL (20 November 2017)

I often get offered the fluffy chequebook as payment bas.

What should I do?


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## basilio (20 November 2017)

wayneL said:


> I often get offered the fluffy chequebook as payment bas.
> 
> What should I do?



Follow your conscience mate.  Just ask Mrs L - she'll set you straight.

And clearly you must be an absolute STUD to be favoured by so many proposals. Perhaps you need to reconsider your career ? Or just branch out ?


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## basilio (20 November 2017)

I see you point now Rumpy.  Yes when you drunk and stupid you are aware enough to know your NOT cracking onto the CEO but some lowly office bunny (who you confidently believe really has the hots for you!! Really!!) In those circumstances one can only pray that said office bunny is either too scared to bleat or somehow thinks the attention really is special.

However Casey Edwards was trying to address the "anguished" question of how one might decide what could be objectively seen as inappropriate behaviour at an office party. I believe her answer was elegantly simple - *would you feel confident about making the comments or taking the action to a CEO who could have you said and destroy your career ?*


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## SirRumpole (20 November 2017)

basilio said:


> I see you point now Rumpy.  Yes when you drunk and stupid you are aware enough to know your NOT cracking onto the CEO but some lowly office bunny (who you confidently believe really has the hots for you!! Really!!) In those circumstances one can only pray that said office bunny is either too scared to bleat or somehow thinks the attention really is special.
> 
> However Casey Edwards was trying to address the "anguished" question of how one might decide what could be objectively seen as inappropriate behaviour at an office party. I believe her answer was elegantly simple - *would you feel confident about making the comments or taking the action to a CEO who could have you said and destroy your career ?*




You are inferring that there is something wrong with trying it on with co-workers ?

Well geez mate that's how the human race reproduces.   How many co-workers in your office ended up getting hitched ? Quite a few in mine. The real question is  taking NO for an answer, which should be part of our inclusive education system from the word go. Girls should be taught "it's OK to say No" (pardon the blatant plagarism from the SSM debate) and boys should be taught to accept it without further argument.


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## basilio (21 November 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> You are inferring that there is something wrong with trying it on with co-workers ?
> 
> Well geez mate that's how the human race reproduces.   How many co-workers in your office ended up getting hitched ? Quite a few in mine. The real question is  taking NO for an answer, which should be part of our inclusive education system from the word go. Girls should be taught "it's OK to say No" (pardon the blatant plagarism from the SSM debate) and boys should be taught to accept it without further argument.



*
Totally agree. *I suppose the question is separating flirting, banter and fun from harrasment or using power to get ones way. 
No one ever gets it "right" all the time. Misunderstandings, clumsy attempts to be friendly, people feeling particularly vulnerable for a range of reasons, people who are prickly and take offense when none is intended.
And of course the very old chestnut. One party is quite keen for a drunken fumble and the other is half there and sort of hopes it is gong to lead somewhere - but it doesn't. Could be a lot buyers remorse in the morning.


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## wayneL (21 November 2017)

basilio said:


> Follow your conscience mate.  Just ask Mrs L - she'll set you straight.
> 
> And clearly you must be an absolute STUD to be favoured by so many proposals. Perhaps you need to reconsider your career ? Or just branch out ?



You missed the point bas. Should such proposals be considered harrassment?

As to your other points:

*the answer is always no.  Apart from betrayal of Mrs L, just bad, bad business.... and to be honest,  it would be hard to top Mrs L anyway 

*such proposals are, I'm sure, purely mercantile in nature - unless late middle aged, profane, hairy, smelly and slightly overweight is considered sexy these days... 

*as a career change to gigoloery would most likely be a dismal failure, I'll stick to farriery and dabbling in finance, thanks. 

But back to the point, should I report these women for sexual harrassment?


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## SirRumpole (21 November 2017)

wayneL said:


> But back to the point, should I report these women for sexual harrassment?




I think you should if you say no and they persist and they have some authority over you. That's the point, it's about power and the abuse thereof.


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## basilio (21 November 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> I think you should if you say no and they persist and they have some authority over you. That's the point, it's about power and the abuse thereof.



Right answer.  Fullmarks !!


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## IFocus (21 November 2017)

wayneL said:


> You missed the point bas. Should such proposals be considered harrassment?
> 
> As to your other points:
> 
> ...




Who holds the power I doubt its the women in such situations unless of course you fear being over powered psychically if that's the case I am on your side


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## wayneL (21 November 2017)

They could sack me, and bag me out on social media, damaging my business. 

Likewise the Weinstein ladies...  could've just said F off. 

Leftists love to trivialise the parallel concerns of white males...  farkin sexists.


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## basilio (21 November 2017)

wayneL said:


> Likewise the Weinstein ladies... could've just said F off.




And have you actually read any of the accounts of the 100 odd women who so far have put their hand up to say Weistein harrassed/assaulted/raped them ?
For what it's worth a number did just say  f....    off.  They then decided that if Weinsten was the price of being an actress they wouldn't be in the industry. Others weasled their way out

This guy is just a ruthless, sociopathetic power monger.

_____________________________________________________________________
How long does one have,  to read all the allegations made agaianst Harvey Weinsten ? These are only the first few. Totally toxic. And in no way just a bit of harrassment.

*The Weinstein allegations*
A list of the accusations made against Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein, who has denied many of the allegations

https://www.theguardian.com/film/ng-interactive/2017/oct/13/the-weinstein-allegations


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## greggles (21 November 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> They sent Rolf Harris to gaol for similar, but in my view lesser offences, so Weinstein may be for it. How the US jurisdiction treats such allegations may be different to the UK courts.




There must have been another ten people who have had accusations leveled against them since I posted last.

Charlie Rose
Jeffrey Tambor
Oliver Stone
Al Franken
Bill Clinton
John Travolta
John Jarratt

These are just the ones I can recall off the top of my head in the last week or so. Feels like a bit of a feminist lynch mob at the moment. Who will be next?


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## wayneL (21 November 2017)

basilio said:


> And have you actually read any of the accounts of the 100 odd women who so far have put their hand up to say Weistein harrassed/assaulted/raped them ?
> For what it's worth a number did just say  f....    off.  They then decided that if Weinsten was the price of being an actress they wouldn't be in the industry. Others weasled their way out
> 
> This guy is just a ruthless, sociopathetic power monger.
> ...



In addtion to Sexist, you're just being Judaphobic.


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## PZ99 (21 November 2017)

greggles said:


> There must have been another ten people who have had accusations leveled against them since I posted last.
> 
> Charlie Rose
> Jeffrey Tambor
> ...



The more names are added to that list the greater the chance of catching out some vexatious complaints I reckon. Stand by for the sane-army of counter sewerage if it happens


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## IFocus (22 November 2017)

wayneL said:


> Leftists love to trivialise the parallel concerns of white males...  farkin sexists.




White males are just getting smashed every day its terrible, I am a Protestant white male  no hope of a fair go...........


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## luutzu (22 November 2017)

IFocus said:


> White males are just getting smashed every day its terrible, I am a Protestant white male  no hope of a fair go...........




Haven't heard if any of these recent accused are being questioned by the authority. 

If males from any other ethnicity or religion, there'll be war declared and the cops will be sent out to call them all in and Trump would've call them animals sent all of them off somewhere.

Poor White males, always being discriminated and persecuted against.


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## Tisme (22 November 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> I think you should if you say no and they persist and they have some authority over you. That's the point, it's about power and the abuse thereof.





Had a friend who had office two women flirting, talking coarse etc. All three in the finance business and professionals. He got a bit bored with the constant banter and pulled out of the gang, wherein the two women laid a complaint of sexual harassment against him.

He was gone for all money, until I suggested it was cheaper to join the union than employ a lawyer. So he did and the upshot was the women got the flick, he kept his seat.


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## SirRumpole (22 November 2017)

Tisme said:


> Had a friend who had office two women flirting, talking coarse etc. All three in the finance business and professionals. He got a bit bored with the constant banter and pulled out of the gang, wherein the two women laid a complaint of sexual harassment against him.
> 
> He was gone for all money, until I suggested it was cheaper to join the union than employ a lawyer. So he did and the upshot was the women got the flick, he kept his seat.




You do have to wonder how many complaints are vexatious. Get a few of your friends to make up a story and you can ruin someones life. I wonder where it will all end.


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## SirRumpole (23 November 2017)

76 year old Graeme Langlands, in a nursing home and suffering from dementia, is charged with child sexual abuse.

Persecution ?

Even if he did it he is unlikely to be able to properly defend himself.

It's going too far I reckon.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-...ed-with-historical-child-sex-offences/9183646


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## Tisme (24 November 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> 76 year old Graeme Langlands, in a nursing home and suffering from dementia, is charged with child sexual abuse.
> 
> Persecution ?
> 
> ...





Ideal predator can't fight back.


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## sptrawler (24 November 2017)

I remember a time, when I was responsible for anything that didn't involve a trade, so I was sent on training courses. lol
Locks, safes, cypher locks, blueprint machines, IBM selectric typewriters etc. Anything that no one wanted a part of.
Anyway I was returning a typewriter after fixing it, it was heavy so it took too hands to carry it. 
The Lady I returned it to chose that point in time, to weigh my goolies, should I report it or just remember the warm glowing feeling I felt. lol


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## basilio (24 November 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> 76 year old Graeme Langlands, in a nursing home and suffering from dementia, is charged with child sexual abuse.
> 
> Persecution ?
> 
> ...




Seriously ? Do you (or anyone) have any idea of the possible charge against Graeme Langlands ?  Would you accept a similar defence for the hundreds of other people who have been charged with historical child sex offences? 

Given he is suffering from dementia he won't go to jail if convicted. However there will have been a sense of justice for the child he (may have) abused.


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## SirRumpole (24 November 2017)

basilio said:


> Seriously ? Do you (or anyone) have any idea of the possible charge against Graeme Langlands ?  Would you accept a similar defence for the hundreds of other people who have been charged with historical child sex offences?
> 
> Given he is suffering from dementia he won't go to jail if convicted. However there will have been a sense of justice for the child he (may have) abused.




Yes seriously. It's a question of his capacity to defend himself. People who are still of sound mind and able to respond are a different matter.


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## basilio (24 November 2017)

Una Thurman has opened commentry on sexual  misconduct.  However unlike most other women she has chosen to wait until she has all the ducks lined up before she opens her mouth.

From the tone of her comments  this won't be a warning and a spray. Whoever she names will be defending themselves in a court.

* 'You don't deserve a bullet': Uma Thurman's Thanksgiving message to Harvey Weinstein *







*Broede Carmody*
 Contact via Email 
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323 reading now

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_Kill Bill _star Uma Thurman has delivered a powerful Thanksgiving message revealing she too has been the victim of sexual misconduct.

In a message to her half a million Instagram followers, the award-winning actor said disgraced movie mogul Harvey Weinstein and his conspirators "don't deserve a bullet". 

While the Golden Globe winner and former model didn't name the alleged perpetrator or perpetrators in her post, she hinted the full story will come to light in due course. 

"I am grateful today, to be alive, for all those I love, and for all those who have the courage to stand up for others," she wrote. *"I said I was angry recently, and I have a few reasons. #Metoo, in case you couldn't tell from the look on my face.*





Actress Uma Thurman has written a provocative Thanksgiving message aimed at disgraced movie mogul Harvey Weinstein.  Photo: Andrew Cooper

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/ent...sage-to-harvey-weinstein-20171123-gzryaw.html
*"I feel it's important to take your time, be fair, be exact*... so happy Thanksgiving everyone! (Except you, Harvey, and all your wicked conspirators. I'm glad it's going slowly. You don't deserve a bullet.) *Stay tuned.*"


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## SirRumpole (24 November 2017)

Does this woman deserve to be in prison ? 

I don't think so.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-24/celebrities-throw-support-behind-cyntoia-brown/9189528


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## PZ99 (27 November 2017)

PZ99 said:


> The more names are added to that list the greater the chance of catching out some vexatious complaints I reckon. Stand by for the sane-army of counter sewerage if it happens



Stuff like this... just $4000 fine for attempting to ruin someone's life / career.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-...ccusing-taxi-driver-of-sexual-assault/9197732


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## Tisme (28 November 2017)

This fellow reckons rape culture is fake and encourages older men to put their dicks into 13 yearold boys. He used to be top editor at Breitbart News, which speaks heaps.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...s/news-story/3ceb969d36c1c5a450b6b938effa5598



> Outspoken conservative commentator Milo Yiannopoulos has accused the Australian media of being “chicken ****” cowards, claiming two television networks pulled out of planned interviews because their hosts were scared to debate him.
> 
> Yiannopoulos launched his attack on the eve of a national speaking tour that will include a talk at Parliament House. Hundreds are expected at protests in Sydney and Melbourne.
> 
> ...


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## basilio (28 November 2017)

The MeToo story where (mostly) women accuse people of harrassment and assaults is shaking Sweden.

*Why is the #MeToo movement sending shockwaves through Sweden? *


Image 1/
Video 1/
Audio
In Sweden, a country viewed as a beacon of gender equality and progressive politics, the 'Weinstein effect' has started a revolution.
By
Andrea Booth, Kelsey Munro

3 DAYS AGO  UPDATED 22 HOURS AGO







It began with October's #MeToo campaign, a spontaneous global outpouring of women calling out their own experiences of sexual harassment and abuse after the predations of Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein finally became known.

But in Sweden, it has snowballed into a social phenomenon that a prominent journalist from the newspaper Dagens Nyheter has described as the biggest Swedish women's movement since women secured the right to vote almost a hundred years ago.

The country has been rocked by a flood of stories of assault and harassment from women across the arts, law, media, sports and politics. Some have even named their perpetrators in social media posts - unusual in a country where it is considered journalistically unethical to publish the names of accused in criminal cases unless they are convicted.

Details of assault allegations have dominated the popular press for weeks. Several media personalities have been stood down from their jobs as evidence has emerged of their past assaults, including politicians, a high profile newspaper columnist and TV presenters.

The country's Queen Silvia and Crown Princess Victoria lent their support over the weekend, calling the movement inspired by #MeToo "an extremely important campaign”.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article...ending-shockwaves-through-sweden?cid=trending


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## SirRumpole (28 November 2017)

basilio said:


> Details of assault *allegations *have dominated the popular press for weeks.




Defamation law suits may follow.


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## Tisme (28 November 2017)

basilio said:


> The MeToo story where (mostly) women accuse people of harrassment and assaults is shaking Sweden.
> 
> *Why is the #MeToo movement sending shockwaves through Sweden? *
> 
> ...




Thank goodness we can now rely not only on best buddies for friendship, but sexual gratification too!


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## greggles (30 November 2017)

So now Matt Lauer of NBC is on the chopping block. While there are some concerning allegations, I couldn't help but notice this quote from the article I was reading:

_“For Lauer, work and sex were intertwined,” the Variety report alleges. The anchor was “fixated on women, especially their bodies and looks”.
_
Really? You don't say. Heterosexual men fixated on women, especially their body and looks? Surely not. 

Millions of years of evolution and a drive to reproduce and perpetuate the species has brought us to this point. Why are people surprised (or outraged) that men are fixated on women? We always have been and always will be, until asexual reproduction becomes a thing.

Every man who hits on a woman is not an abuser. Sometimes, as a man, you make a bad call and your advances are not reciprocated. This is often due to mixed messages or misinterpreting body language. This can happen regularly if you are a bit of a Lothario. It still doesn't make you an abuser, just a horny guy.

Men are supposed to make the first move. Don't sic the feminist lynch mob on us when we get it wrong.


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## Tisme (30 November 2017)

greggles said:


> So now Matt Lauer of NBC is on the chopping block. While there are some concerning allegations, I couldn't help but notice this quote from the article I was reading:
> 
> _“For Lauer, work and sex were intertwined,” the Variety report alleges. The anchor was “fixated on women, especially their bodies and looks”.
> _
> ...





You haven't heard the latest about our Toowoomba boy? Geoffery Rush


----------



## SirRumpole (1 December 2017)




----------



## SirRumpole (8 December 2017)

The counter attack begins...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-...famation-suit-against-daily-telegraph/9241224


----------



## Tisme (9 December 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> The counter attack begins...
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-...famation-suit-against-daily-telegraph/9241224





If he crowd funds I might tip some money in


----------



## Tisme (10 December 2017)




----------



## basilio (8 January 2018)

Golden Globes awards tonight with all the women dressed in black to mark the cuurent sexual harrassment issues.

Very powerful speech from Ophrah Winfrey.  

* Oprah Winfrey takes on sexual predators in Golden Globes speech: 'Their time is up' *
As she accepted the Cecil B DeMille Lifetime Achievement award, Oprah gave a powerful speech about sexual harassment, racial injustice and press freedom

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/jan/07/oprah-winfrey-speech-lifetime-achievement-golden-globes


----------



## SirRumpole (8 January 2018)

Maybe female actors should only work for female directors/producers, like female only buses.


----------



## basilio (8 January 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Maybe female actors should only work for female directors/producers, like female only buses.




Maybe  (some) men shouldn't be utter a..holes.. Simpler solution perhaps?


----------



## cynic (8 January 2018)

basilio said:


> Maybe  (some) men shouldn't be utter a..holes.. Simpler solution perhaps?



But where would be the fun in that?
The feminazis would have to then find some new cause for complaint in order to justify their perpetual loathing of those despicable custodians of male genitalia!


----------



## SirRumpole (8 January 2018)

basilio said:


> Maybe  (some) men shouldn't be utter a..holes.. Simpler solution perhaps?




What standard of proof should be required ? How do we know that women are always telling the truth ? 

The potential for revenge for perceived snubs or honest opinions would seem to be quite high.


----------



## sptrawler (8 January 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> What standard of proof should be required ? How do we know that women are always telling the truth ?
> 
> The potential for revenge for perceived snubs or honest opinions would seem to be quite high.




Yes, I think I read that one of the women said she didn't want to be kissed, but the article eluded to the fact the role called for it.
I guess a lot of questions will have to be asked, in the audition stage, then i guess it will be able to be challenged on the basis of discrimination due to prudishness.
This whole harassment issue, is going to be interesting, as those who are pushing it, try and preempt and control the consequences.


----------



## basilio (9 January 2018)

* It’s easy to sneer at Hollywood doing politics but the Golden Globes nailed it *
Abi Wilkinson
Instead of simply speaking out themselves, stars raised the profiles of real-life activists. A-listers who wish to use your fame for good: this is how it’s done 

......   What was different about last night was that several politically active stars chose to capitalise on this chance. Instead of simply speaking out themselves, they attempted to elevate the voices of others. As well as wearing black in an attempt raise awareness of the #TimesUp anti-sexual harassment initiative, Emma Watson, Meryl Streep and several other A-list women all brought female activists as their plus ones.

Streep was accompanied by Ai-jen Poo, director of the National Domestic Workers Alliance in the US, while Watson brought Marai Larasi, executive director of Imkaan, a UK women’s organisation dedicated to addressing violence against black and minority ethnic women and girls. Amy Poehler’s guest was Saru Jayaraman, president of Restaurant Opportunities Centers United. Shailene Woodley brought Calina Lawrence who campaigns against social injustices impacting tribal reservations and urban Native American communities. Michelle Williams invited Tarana Burke, creator of the #MeToo movement and senior director at Girls for Gender Equality.






* A show of power, not fashion: dressing for the post-Weinstein Golden Globes *
Read more
Susan Sarandon walked the red carpet with Rosa Clemente, a community organiser and independent journalist who campaigns on issues including voter engagement and media justice. Laura Dern came with Monica Ramirez, the co-founder of Alianza Nacional de Campesinas, an organisation which advocates for female farmworkers across the US, which published a letter in solidarity with Hollywood actors against sexual assault and requested support with similar issues in their own industry.

Hopefully, all those women will now find themselves inundated with interview requests and other opportunities to raise their profiles and further their activism. Last night’s appearances alone will likely have inspired many people to Google their names and find out more about their work. Hopefully, the event will set a precedent. A-listers who wish to use your fame for good: this is how you do it. Seek out voices to elevate and provide them with new opportunities to speak out.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...tars-politics-golden-globes-nail-it-activists


----------



## Tisme (9 January 2018)

Well at least we know what the next agenda is going to be for the following year = final emasculation of males and what dresses they will be required to wear.


----------



## moXJO (9 January 2018)

basilio said:


> * It’s easy to sneer at Hollywood doing politics but the Golden Globes nailed it *
> Abi Wilkinson
> Instead of simply speaking out themselves, stars raised the profiles of real-life activists. A-listers who wish to use your fame for good: this is how it’s done
> 
> ...



Hollywood is such vapid vomit. Wheres a stray Kim Jong Un nuke when you need it. Hush money,  actors flip-floping on supposed values, backing one set of rapists over another. Spare me the  "Celeb" lessons.


----------



## basilio (9 January 2018)

moXJO said:


> Hollywood is such vapid vomit. Wheres a stray Kim Jong Un nuke when you need it. Hush money,  actors flip-floping on supposed values, backing one set of rapists over another. Spare me the  "Celeb" lessons.




Celeb lessons ?  Really Moxxy be a waste of time and effort on you. You clearly havn't learn't anything since 1955 - and are determined not to.


----------



## basilio (9 January 2018)

Lets hear from the Hollywood  "Rich White Men" 

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...tars-politics-golden-globes-nail-it-activists


----------



## basilio (9 January 2018)

And then perhaps the next President of the Uunited States.


----------



## moXJO (9 January 2018)

basilio said:


> Celeb lessons ?  Really Moxxy be a waste of time and effort on you. You clearly havn't learn't anything since 1955 - and are determined not to.



Awww did I insult your idols. 
Perhaps 
Rose (I defended a pedo and held out for more money) Mcgowan
Or
Lena (I told everyone I touched my baby sisters private parts and defended a rapist cause we is mates) dunham

But it was all about the golden globes and thank God a Hollywood hero like James (I tried to have sex with a 17yo) Franco got the nod.
Please Hollywood,  teach me more!!!


----------



## Tisme (9 January 2018)

basilio said:


> And then perhaps the next President of the Uunited States.






Miss billionaire who blamed obesity on child molestation by fathers. Who pandered to the women audiences who all looked like they came from the same egg:- hair styles, wardrobe, physique and hysterical fawning. Who has a social media pic of her lying on Weinstein giving kissy kissy


----------



## SirRumpole (9 January 2018)

Tisme said:


> Miss billionaire who blamed obesity on child molestation by fathers. Who pandered to the women audiences who all looked like they came from the same egg:- hair styles, wardrobe, physique and hysterical fawning. Who has a social media pic of her lying on Weinstein giving kissy kissy




Yeah, just what the US needs, another celebrity President.

I hope Caroline Kennedy runs. There is someone with a sense of community service.


----------



## basilio (9 January 2018)

I don't think Ophrah would make the best next President of the US....
.......but sure as hell she would be miles better than our present resident raging sociopath.

As for your trashing of her. Pure Tizz


----------



## Tisme (9 January 2018)

basilio said:


> I don't think Ophrah would make the best next President of the US....
> .......but sure as hell she would be miles better than our present resident raging sociopath.
> 
> As for your trashing of her. Pure Tizz




As for apologising for every left field knuckleheaded fad that needs a fawning fan...  Pure BAS


----------



## Tisme (9 January 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Yeah, just what the US needs, another celebrity President.
> 
> I hope Caroline Kennedy runs. There is someone with a sense of community service.




Won't happen unless the Guardian and other boiler suited misandrist media rags get behind her. Is she black, is she homosexual, does she blame men for everything that goes wrong in her life, does she give out great life's lessons memes freely, is she a democrat, and does Bas approve?


----------



## Tisme (9 January 2018)

moXJO said:


> Hollywood is such vapid vomit. Wheres a stray Kim Jong Un nuke when you need it. Hush money,  actors flip-floping on supposed values, backing one set of rapists over another. Spare me the  "Celeb" lessons.




to quote Alec Baldwin character out of Team America: World Police  

"By following the rules of the Film Actor's Guild, the world can become a better place; that handles dangerous people with talk, and reasoning; that, is the fag way. One day you'll all look at the world us actors created and say, "wow, good going, fag. You really made the world a better place, didntcha, fag?"


----------



## sptrawler (9 January 2018)

I guess  the fan at this Celine Dion show, is lucky to be female, if it was a male I guess he would be facing a day in court.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/entertain...-humps-her-onstage/ar-BBI8NNs?ocid=spartandhp


----------



## sptrawler (9 January 2018)

I wonder how long it will be, before a female is refused a role in a show or any job, for arriving at the interview in inappropriate dress.
I would feel the interviewer, if male, would have every right to demand she come back in appropriate dress, as he felt he was being put under duress and felt it was sexual innuendo and harassment for reward.

Can't wait to see how this latest social engineering platform works out, it certainly is entertaining.

Thank god I worked in a male dominated power generation industry, it is too noisey, too hot and too smelly for most, and that's just the people. lol


----------



## SirRumpole (10 January 2018)

Men have a "right to pester women" says actress.

Can of worms this one. 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-...ench-actress-denounces-metoo-campaign/9316828


----------



## Logique (10 January 2018)

basilio said:


> And then perhaps the next President of the Uunited States.



You wish Bas!  But Oprah is a fine woman, one of the best. The US could do a lot worse.


----------



## Logique (10 January 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Men have a "right to pester women" says actress.
> Can of worms this one.
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-...ench-actress-denounces-metoo-campaign/9316828



As you may be implying SirR - of course men don't have that right!  More power to these women, and not before time that we hear their voices


----------



## sptrawler (10 January 2018)

Don't want to sound sexist, because I'm not, but as I've said on numerous occassions, beware of what you wish for regarding equality.
If the onus was on the the non working mother, to supply the money she gifts, maybe she would have thought more carefully before doing so.
But I guess, it will be up to the working partner to sort out the mess, and just suck it up.

http://www.smh.com.au/money/borrowi...30b-credit-card-hangover-20180110-h0gb1o.html

I just hope they bring on the equality quickly, then at least the non working partner will be working and the onus will be on time equality.
House work will have to be shared, earning ability won't be an excuse for not working and coffee shops will go out of business. lol


----------



## sptrawler (10 January 2018)

Another flash of enlightenment just came over me, regarding sexual harassment and the way it is handled.
Why was Derryn Hinch in trouble, for naming and shaming convicted pedophille's?

When these people can name and shame anyone, without recourse, or retribution.
Maybe I have it wrong , but it appears the laws aren't being applied equally.


----------



## Tisme (11 January 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Another flash of enlightenment just came over me, regarding sexual harassment and the way it is handled.
> Why was Derryn Hinch in trouble, for naming and shaming convicted pedophille's?
> 
> When these people can name and shame anyone, without recourse, or retribution.
> Maybe I have it wrong , but it appears the laws aren't being applied equally.





The thing is that all those women who have a vociferous axe to grind because a male had the impudence to be attracted to the female form, makeup, pretty dresses, hair style, perfume and smiling lips, should realise that those same film and acting industry men will continue on in their Jewish boys club, but those women's careers are kaput.


----------



## SirRumpole (11 January 2018)

Logique said:


> As you may be implying SirR - of course men don't have that right!  More power to these women, and not before time that we hear their voices





A friend of mine "pestered" a girl for about 10 years before she finally decided to marry him. 

They had 60 happily married years.

I guess it depends on the way you go about it, he didn't grope her or anything it was just friendship for the 10 years. Something that may be less important in these days of instant gratification.


----------



## basilio (12 January 2018)

Tisme said:


> The thing is that all those women who have a vociferous axe to grind because a male had the impudence to be attracted to the female form, makeup, pretty dresses, hair style, perfume and smiling lips, should realise that those same film and acting industry men will continue on in their Jewish boys club, but those women's careers are kaput.




What a load of absolute poisonous, lying, slanderous rubbish. 

Oh wait.  It's Tizzy again. Explains it all.


----------



## moXJO (12 January 2018)

basilio said:


> What a load of absolute poisonous, lying, slanderous rubbish.
> 
> Oh wait.  It's Tizzy again. Explains it all.



Isn't he stating the truth? 
Women will wear the consequences while the men will continue on?


----------



## Logique (12 January 2018)

basilio said:


> What a load of absolute poisonous, lying, slanderous rubbish.
> Oh wait.  It's Tizzy again. Explains it all.



I have reported this post to Joe in the following terms: 
Basilio says Tisme is: ".. poisonous, lying, slanderous .."  Physician heal thyself!  This language is at minimum disrespectful of a trusted regular poster on ASF. There is a way to make a point respectfully.


----------



## basilio (12 January 2018)

Logique said:


> I have reported this post to Joe in the following terms:
> Basilio says Tisme is: ".. poisonous, lying, slanderous .."  Physician heal thyself!  This language is at minimum disrespectful of a trusted regular poster on ASF. There is a way to make a point respectfully.




No problem Logique. I have already self reported Tismes comments to Joe and my response because I thought his comments were exactly what I said and needed to called out as such.

Have a look at the stories of the scores of women who have spoken up about Harvey Weinstens abuse of them and see if that squares with Tismes depiction of the situation.

______________

And by the way I hope you got it right Logique. I said Tismes* comments *were poisonous, lying and and slanderous. Lets not mix up Tizzes character with some of the things he says.


----------



## Joe Blow (12 January 2018)

In my experience, the vast majority of times that a thread turns personal it is because of a misunderstanding or a misreading of someone's words or intentions. I think that is the case here.

My reading of Tisme's words is that he was identifying a small subset of accusers who may have had an axe to grind. I don't think it is unreasonable to suggest that in some instances this may have been a motivating factor. This does not suggest to me that there is any suggestion of widespread axe grinding in relation to recent sexual harassment allegations. In any case, that is how I read Tisme's post.

Folks, please be sure to read the words of others with care and ask them to clarify if you believe they have made a claim or statement that you take issue with. It is easy to misunderstand or misinterpret others when all you have is the written word in front of you.


----------



## SirRumpole (12 January 2018)

basilio said:


> What a load of absolute poisonous, lying, slanderous rubbish.
> 
> Oh wait.  It's Tizzy again. Explains it all.




I think it's possible that *some *women may go down the casting couch route and could become viperous if rejected.

Not saying it's happened in the Weinstein case, but it's certainly possible imo.


----------



## tech/a (12 January 2018)

Agree SR.
In many many fields.
Lots of consensual stuff out there.

Some Chicks are just out there and happy to fast track.

But hey these days the guy would claim Sexual Harassment!
In my view the best resolution is that if its at work LEAVE IT THERE and LEAVE IT ALONE.


----------



## Tisme (12 January 2018)

moXJO said:


> Isn't he stating the truth?
> Women will wear the consequences while the men will continue on?





The truth ... he can't handle the truth


----------



## Tisme (12 January 2018)

Joe Blow said:


> In my experience, the vast majority of times that a thread turns personal it is because of a misunderstanding or a misreading of someone's words or intentions. I think that is the case here.
> 
> My reading of Tisme's words is that he was identifying a small subset of accusers who may have had an axe to grind. I don't think it is unreasonable to suggest that in some instances this may have been a motivating factor. This does not suggest to me that there is any suggestion of widespread axe grinding in relation to recent sexual harassment allegations. In any case, that is how I read Tisme's post.
> 
> Folks, please be sure to read the words of others with care and ask them to clarify if you believe they have made a claim or statement that you take issue with. It is easy to misunderstand or misinterpret others when all you have is the written word in front of you.




In my time I have had many beautiful female employees, many of them tried it on and a few of the hubbies/BFs came a visiting.... it's a burden being devastatingly handsome, possessing the sparkling wit and personality, but it's a load I carry willingly for the good of mankind, world peace and riding ponies.... Viv le female form, look but don't touch (unless you partner is fugly).


----------



## Tisme (12 January 2018)

http://www.rebelcircus.com/blog/celebrities-who-slept-their-way-to-the-top/


----------



## basilio (12 January 2018)

Tisme said:


> In my time I have had many beautiful female employees, many of them tried it on and a few of the hubbies/BFs came a visiting.... it's a burden being devastatingly handsome, possessing the sparkling wit and personality, but it's a load I carry willingly for the good of mankind, world peace and riding ponies.... Viv le female form, look but don't touch (unless you partner is fugly).





Well that is  funny isn't it ? "Clearly" Tizzy  was referring to those hordes of panting women employees who were doing everything they could to get into his pants (possibly to reach his pockets)

Now why wasn't that clear in a text that stated  " *these women ...should realise that those same film and acting industry men will continue on in their Jewish boys club, but those women's careers are kaput." *So it was challenging to somehow misconnect Tizzys personal sufferings versus the hundreds of women who are coming out with  their experiences in the film industry.

So as I read it (and indeed so did Logique) Tisme was saying that all these women (hollywood actresses) had an axe to grind just because they rejected these poor men who thought they were so dishy and made a pass at them. 

And now when they opened their mouths to complain they were going to lose their jobs wern't they?

So why did I say on my understanding of the post that it was *"poisonous, lying and slanderous "*?

1) *Lying.* It completly misrepresents/lies about hundreds of the initial complaints as well as the later Me Toopeople who related their experiences.  In fact it is the oldest lie in the book of sexual attacks ("She was asking for it "
2*) Slanderous.  *Sprouting that lie about  "all those women" (not some, not  a few perhaps) would make the normal reasonable person think poorly about the character and morals of the thousands of people who have raised their voice about the various abuses they have been subjected to. Open and shut I suggest.
3)* Poisonous. *As I read it and as Logique also understood it the tone of the text was to discredit *"all those women" who were making allegations of sexual abuse.* In the context of this thead the post looked like Tisme was poisoning the well by make a totally untrue, slanderous comment that was covering all and any people who were speaking out on personal experiences.

Anyway Joe reckons this is a misunderstanding which I am prepared to accept. 

*That assumes of course that Tizzys next text  in this thread explictly acknowledges that the sexual abuse accusations in Hollywood  are in the most part very real. That he was in fact referring in large part to his own  particular circumstances and that conflating the Hollywood situation was an unfortunate choice of contexts.*

For the record I would also be interested in knowing how many other posters read Tismes comment and came  to the conclusion that this was a comment about the Hollywood actors currently kicking up re sex abuse. Be good to know how much misunderstanding there was with this post.


----------



## SirRumpole (12 January 2018)

> For the record I would also be interested in knowing how many other posters read Tismes comment and came to the conclusion that this was a comment about the Hollywood actors currently kicking up re sex abuse. be nice to know how much misunderstanding there was with this post.




There could always be hidden bylines that we don't know about in the women's stories. Chequebook journalism comes to mind. It's been known to happen. Is there a requirement for such payments to be disclosed ?

Anyway, Weinstein sounds like a creep. He's admitted he's got problems. He's now in "therapy" apparently, but that doesn't disclose all the motives for the revelations after a long period of time.


----------



## Tisme (12 January 2018)

basilio said:


> Well that is  funny isn't it ? "Clearly" Tizzy  was referring to those hordes of panting women employees who were doing everything they could to get into his pants (possibly to reach his pockets)
> 
> Now why wasn't that clear in a text that stated  " *these women ...should realise that those same film and acting industry men will continue on in their Jewish boys club, but those women's careers are kaput." *So it was challenging to somehow misconnect Tizzys personal sufferings versus the hundreds of women who are coming out with  their experiences in the film industry.
> 
> ...




I once had a fixed wheel 28". It could back pedal too.


----------



## moXJO (12 January 2018)

basilio said:


> Well that is  funny isn't it ? "Clearly" Tizzy  was referring to those hordes of panting women employees who were doing everything they could to get into his pants (possibly to reach his pockets)
> 
> Now why wasn't that clear in a text that stated  " *these women ...should realise that those same film and acting industry men will continue on in their Jewish boys club, but those women's careers are kaput." *So it was challenging to somehow misconnect Tizzys personal sufferings versus the hundreds of women who are coming out with  their experiences in the film industry.
> 
> ...



Jesus Christ
Triggered much or what. Don't justify your pi$$y fit then load him up with how it all happened according to Bas. You have been wanting to have a dig and you did.
He is allowed whatever opinion he wants and you can disagree all you want. But don't go turning him into "rapey hitler" by trying to lead the narrative and gather backup.


----------



## Tisme (13 January 2018)

moXJO said:


> Jesus Christ
> Triggered much or what. Don't justify your pi$$y fit then load him up with how it all happened according to Bas. You have been wanting to have a dig and you did.
> He is allowed whatever opinion he wants and you can disagree all you want. But don't go turning him into "rapey hitler" by trying to lead the narrative and gather backup.




I'm happy to let him get it out of his system. I found it more effective allowing my kids to go the full retard and let them fizzle out once they started listening to themselves.


----------



## moXJO (13 January 2018)

Tisme said:


> I'm happy to let him get it out of his system. I found it more effective allowing my kids to go the full retard and let them fizzle out once they started listening to themselves.



If only Bas could follow our exemplary behaviour in posting.


----------



## Tisme (14 January 2018)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-...-letter-french-activists-denounce-her/9319356

Read carefully the context please



> Marlene Schiappa, France's Junior Minister for Women's Rights, criticised Deneuve's letter.
> 
> "There are in this open letter some things that are deeply offensive and false," she told France Culture radio.
> 
> ...


----------



## Tisme (14 January 2018)

http://edition.cnn.com/2018/01/13/politics/rice-metoo-axe-files-cnntv/index.html



> Former US Secretary of State Condoleezza Ricesaid that while she believes the #MeToo movement is "a good thing," people need "to be a little bit careful" about how they respond to it.
> 
> "Let's not turn women into snowflakes. Let's not infantilize women," Rice insisted during an interview with CNN's David Axelrod on "The Axe Files," which airs at 7 ET Saturday night.
> Rice said she didn't want "to get to a place that men start to think, 'Well, maybe it's just better not to have women around.' I've heard a little bit of that. And it, it worries me," she told Axelrod.
> ...


----------



## basilio (14 January 2018)

Two top fashion photographers suspended over  multiple sexual harrassment claims.

* Mario Testino and Bruce Weber 'sexually exploited models' *
Top fashion photographers suspended from titles including Vogue after models accused them of sexually exploiting them




The claims about Bruce Weber (left) and Mario Testino, which they both deny, appeared in the New York Times. Photograph: Matt Sayles, Michael Sohn/AP
Press Association

Sun 14 Jan 2018 19.32 AEDT


*Shares*
32

Mario Testino and Bruce Weber have been suspended from working with fashion magazines including Vogue after models accused the photographers of sexually exploiting them.

Lawyers for Testino, known for photographing the royal family, disputed their accounts while Weber denied the claims to the New York Times, whose investigative report detailed a string of allegations.

Anna Wintour, the artistic director of Condé Nast, which publishes magazines including Vogue and GQ, said the publisher would not work with the pair for the “foreseeable future” following Saturday’s report.

Testino, who took the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge’s official engagement photos and was given an honorary OBE in 2014, was accused by 13 male assistants and models of subjecting them to sexual advances.

Some said the Peruvian photographer’s behaviour, going back to the mid-1990s, included groping and masturbation, the paper reported.

Ryan Locke, a model who worked with Testino on Gucci campaigns, accused him of being aggressive and flirtatious throughout shoots, adding: “He was a sexual predator.”

Hugo Tillman, a photographic assistant, said Testino once grabbed him on the street and tried to kiss him and, a few weeks later, pinned him down on a bed until he was removed by another person.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...no-and-bruce-weber-models-claim-fashion-vogue


More on Mario Testino

* Mario Testino: 'I was always better at photographing men' *
The fashion and portrait photographer became world famous for his photographs of Kate Moss and Diana, Princess of Wales – now his new book focuses on men

https://www.theguardian.com/artandd...tino-i-was-always-better-at-photographing-men


----------



## moXJO (14 January 2018)

I wonder when they will go for Howard Stern?


----------



## sptrawler (15 January 2018)

moXJO said:


> I wonder when they will go for Howard Stern?




I wonder when men will say "duck it", it's all too hard, then we will see equality.

The equality thing will work, when men aren't sexually aroused by women, then both go to work and having children becomes secondary.

We have moved a long way along this progression, as now house prices are structured to two incomes, before it only required the man to go to work and the lady looked after the house/family.

Now both need to work in some capacity, to meet the costs, the issue now is the delegation of the home duties.

Also the push to accept that same sex mating, is normal and should be embraced. Which I certainly don't have a problem with, it just isn't my bag.

I guess it will end up as the social engineering wants it, where breeding will be selective, population will be controlled.
Then the populace isn't required to select a partner of the opposite sex, to enable the existence of the species, that is ensured by selective breeding.
All the people then have to do, is find a partner to enjoy life with, cuts out the I'm doing all the house work arguments.
Just my opinion, can't see how else they can cap population growth.


----------



## wayneL (16 January 2018)

Such a microcosm of out there.  The perpetually offended (possibly psychopathological in some way),triggered,making reports, slandering and libelling.... and the perpetually sensible. 

In about the same proportion too.

I just want to know how the snowflakes got control of the msm.


----------



## SirRumpole (1 February 2018)

*Craig McLachlan cleared of sexual harassment allegations by Doctor Blake Mysteries producers*

So what does this say about the accusers in this case ?

That they were lying ?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-...sponds-to-craig-mclachlan-allegations/9380658


----------



## Tisme (1 February 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> *Craig McLachlan cleared of sexual harassment allegations by Doctor Blake Mysteries producers*
> 
> So what does this say about the accusers in this case ?
> 
> ...




It'll end up being some LGITQUERTY warrior who wanted to hijack the parternalistic white anglo hero nature of the series. Add to that an anglo white straight guy playing an insensitive gender bender role on stage .....

Craig, like Rudd needs to join the Greens and the bad man will probably go away,


----------



## luutzu (1 February 2018)

Tisme said:


> In my time I have had many beautiful female employees, many of them tried it on and a few of the hubbies/BFs came a visiting.... it's a burden being devastatingly handsome, possessing the sparkling wit and personality, but it's a load I carry willingly for the good of mankind, world peace and riding ponies.... Viv le female form, look but don't touch (unless you partner is fugly).




That could explain your nervousness and "humour" with the recent surge of sexual harassment victims coming out. 

mmm, did I look at that girl too long? Did she hit on me or I look and also touch? What about that handsome delivery guy. 

The weight of that handsomeness could be devastating. Is mankind and world peace worth it?


----------



## Tisme (1 February 2018)

luutzu said:


> That could explain your nervousness and "humour" with the recent surge of sexual harassment victims coming out.
> 
> mmm, did I look at that girl too long? Did she hit on me or I look and also touch? What about that handsome delivery guy.
> 
> The weight of that handsomeness could be devastating. Is mankind and world peace worth it?




It's an incredible burden, especially balancing my responsibility to provide eye candy for women with that of not intimidating men with my outstanding manliness.

I'm fairly sure some greenie male hipsters have an uncomfortability with their sphincters when within a 100 yard presence  radius


----------



## sptrawler (1 February 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> *Craig McLachlan cleared of sexual harassment allegations by Doctor Blake Mysteries producers*
> 
> So what does this say about the accusers in this case ?
> 
> ...




The way things are going, I would say these women if found to be lying, may find themselves in court and unemployable.


----------



## luutzu (1 February 2018)

Tisme said:


> It's an incredible burden, especially balancing my responsibility to provide eye candy for women with that of not intimidating men with my outstanding manliness.
> 
> I'm fairly sure some greenie male hipsters have an uncomfortability with their sphincters when within a 100 yard presence  radius




So it's the rugged good look you reckon? Not you signing their paycheck each fortnight that make you attractive?


----------



## Tisme (2 February 2018)

luutzu said:


> So it's the rugged good look you reckon? Not you signing their paycheck each fortnight that make you attractive?




No I'm a freak of nature


----------



## sptrawler (2 February 2018)

I guess this was only a matter of time, it won't be long before it hits all aspects of sport and entertainment, guess the ladies will just have to get a "real" job. So to speak.

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/new...s-have-been-discontinued-20180201-h0rzni.html

Like I said a few posts back, this will cost women in a lot of ways they haven't even dreamed of, the sexual harrassment issue needed to be addressed. 
However, the scatter gun approach #metoo has adopted, is going to reduce the public perception as to the seriousness of the issue.IMO


----------



## sptrawler (2 February 2018)

sptrawler said:


> The way things are going, I would say these women if found to be lying, may find themselves in court and unemployable.




Well I just read this, so the court actions are starting, this will get interesting.IMO

http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment...st-fairfax-media-and-abc-20180201-h0s89o.html

_Gold Logie winning actor Craig McLachlan has filed defamation proceedings against Fairfax Media and the ABC after they reported on allegations he sexually harassed several former colleagues.

One of McLachlan's accusers, former co-star Christie Whelan Browne, has also been named in the defamation suit.
McLachlan's statement of claim was lodged in the NSW Supreme Court on Thursday afternoon and principally targets Browne.

The claim states Browne was "herself a notoriously foul-mouthed person who publicly distributed offensive matter and had expressed interest in deviant sexual practices."

McLachlan has engaged prominent barrister Stuart Littlemore QC to run the case._


----------



## Tisme (2 February 2018)

sptrawler said:


> I guess this was only a matter of time, it won't be long before it hits all aspects of sport and entertainment, guess the ladies will just have to get a "real" job. So to speak.
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/new...s-have-been-discontinued-20180201-h0rzni.html
> 
> ...




And because western women have had  50 years of the solidarity message,expect  few to break ranks with the call to arms.

I wonder how much traction a complaint by a female of another female sexually harassing her would get? My guess it would treated quite differently by the indignation brigade.


----------



## SirRumpole (2 February 2018)

Sexual harassment isn't only men harassing women.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-...ed-for-sex-offences-at-sydney-grammar/9387486


----------



## Wysiwyg (2 February 2018)

sptrawler said:


> I guess this was only a matter of time, it won't be long before it hits all aspects of sport and entertainment, guess the ladies will just have to get a "real" job. So to speak.
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/new...s-have-been-discontinued-20180201-h0rzni.html
> 
> ...



People or person must have been offended.  All part of the social engineering aspect of female roles in society. Beautiful women are not for ogling in public, that is what the internet is for. In the privacy of ones home, female form admirers around the world can dream as much as they want without anyone being offended. Love ya's all, ladies.


----------



## Macquack (2 February 2018)

sptrawler said:


> _
> The claim states Browne was "herself a notoriously foul-mouthed person who publicly distributed offensive matter and had expressed interest in deviant sexual practices."_



I don't get how in a defamation case, the defence can include a statement that defames one of the accusers.

Craigy boy should concentrate on clearing his name rather than counter claiming with "she is a bigger sexual deviant than I am."

The only winners here, as usual, are the lawyers.


----------



## SirRumpole (3 February 2018)

Macquack said:


> I don't get how in a defamation case, the defence can include a statement that defames one of the accusers.
> 
> Craigy boy should concentrate on clearing his name rather than counter claiming with "she is a bigger sexual deviant than I am."
> 
> The only winners here, as usual, are the lawyers.




Once the dirt is thrown and there is a wind blowing, the throwers can't be sure that some of it won't come back and hit them in the face.


----------



## moXJO (3 February 2018)

Macquack said:


> I don't get how in a defamation case, the defence can include a statement that defames one of the accusers.
> 
> Craigy boy should concentrate on clearing his name rather than counter claiming with "she is a bigger sexual deviant than I am."
> 
> The only winners here, as usual, are the lawyers.



Apparently they have emails from her in which she swears.


----------



## SirRumpole (3 February 2018)

moXJO said:


> Apparently they have emails from her in which she swears.




Disgusting.


----------



## Tisme (3 February 2018)

moXJO said:


> Apparently they have emails from her in which she swears.




Grounds for a countersuit and consequent claim for damages.

Hard ask for Craig; he has everything stacked against him due to his parent's lack of protection New Years Eve 1964.

Why do white people keep providing sacrifices to feminists and SJWs? Surely family services need to step in and stop the insanity by making anglo-austral christians procreate outside their gene pool?


----------



## moXJO (3 February 2018)

4 cases in the past six months that have happened to close associates.

15 yo boy accused of raping two girls. The girls said he forced them into it. He came to my son for advice.  I knew the kid and there was no way he would every even attempt it. Put him through a lot of stress for 6 months. In the end the girls crumbled and ended up telling the cops they fabricated the story. All charges were dropped. He wasn't the most popular kid and they wanted to just lay the boot in.

2nd case: Mate of mine met a girl went out for 3 months. One night she gets drunk and loses the plot. Smashes up his unit and beats him as best she can. He tells her to leave. Neighbors call the cops and they turn up. They barge into his unit and threaten to arrest him for DV related charges.
Start searching through all his stuff no warrent no permission. Apparently DV laws is the new nazism and general rights go out the window. 
He ended up calling me and I talked to the copper.
It was only lucky he managed to get the girl on the phone and she told the truth. If not he would have been locked up.

Another incident in which white wife calls cops on aboriginal husband for dv and he is assaulted by police  before being locked up. All because he didn't make dinner that night.

And the last was a similar story. His drunk wife beat him over 2 hours then called the cops and had him done. He wouldn't leave as he was trying to get young kids out of the house. 
When I seen him he had two black eyes and scratches all over his face. He confided he wished he did hit her just to make her stop. At least he has a pretty good case.

There are some real dirtbag men out there as well. Bug there are just as many women.


----------



## SirRumpole (3 February 2018)

moXJO said:


> 15 yo boy accused of raping two girls. The girls said he forced them into it. He came to my son for advice. I knew the kid and there was no way he would every even attempt it. Put him through a lot of stress for 6 months. In the end the girls crumbled and ended up telling the cops they fabricated the story. All charges were dropped. He wasn't the most popular kid and they wanted to just lay the boot in.




Were the girls charged with making a false complaint ? 

If not, they should have been. They should have been humiliated in public as a lesson to others not to try that stuff.


----------



## Tisme (3 February 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Were the girls charged with making a false complaint ?
> 
> If not, they should have been. They should have been humiliated in public as a lesson to others not to try that stuff.




Yeah right...that's going to happen


----------



## moXJO (3 February 2018)

At every stage the cops were pushing the women to make charges and disregarding any rights the men had. Then giving zero support to the men once the tables flipped. Pretty much a "carry on... business as usual" type of deal.
Domestic violence figures would be a lot closer male/female if men actually reported it. 
The courts are currently clogged with DV cases.


----------



## SirRumpole (3 February 2018)

False allegation are a criminal offence.

https://www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au/blog/the-consequences-of-false-accusation-cases-in-nsw/


----------



## SirRumpole (4 February 2018)

Schoolgirls get lecture on length of skirts.

It might sound old fashioned, but I think the principal is right.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-...-under-fire-over-talk-on-skirt-length/9393460


----------



## Tisme (4 February 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Schoolgirls get lecture on length of skirts.
> 
> It might sound old fashioned, but I think the principal is right.
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-...-under-fire-over-talk-on-skirt-length/9393460




What's wrong with humiliation and disgrace and what better place to learn it than at school, before working life hits them between the eyes?


----------



## SirRumpole (4 February 2018)

Tisme said:


> What's wrong with humiliation and disgrace and what better place to learn it than at school, before working life hits them between the eyes?




St Trinian's Forever.


----------



## sptrawler (7 February 2018)

So Barnaby now faces the bullying of the gay community, similar to Margaret Court.

https://thewest.com.au/politics/fed...-ex-staff-member-expecting-baby-ng-b88737083z

How a gay person can claim Barnaby is a hypocrite, for denouncing gay marriage, because he left his wife for another women is ludicrous. 
He has produced nearly five children, if he had been having sex with a bloke he wouldn't have produced any, and leaving the bloke wouldn't have raised an eyebrow.
The two are mutually exclusive, traditional marriage still promotes natural selection, gay marriage produces friction.IMO


----------



## SirRumpole (11 February 2018)

Disturbing report.

Individual harrassment cases are bad enough, but when it's institutionalised ...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-09/the-cost-of-making-a-complaint-in-the-police-force/9397864


----------



## TikoMike (11 February 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Were the girls charged with making a false complaint ?
> 
> If not, they should have been. They should have been humiliated in public as a lesson to others not to try that stuff.




We live under the Duluth model where a man is guilty until proven innocent and even if they are proven innocent they still have to live with the stigma. Just look at the #metoo movement. It's crazy how men are losing their jobs over this **** and women not held accountable for these false accusations.

If a man is accused (sometimes without evidence) they face jail time, but then if the accuser, when proven false, faces no jail time under most circumstances? Ridiculous.


----------



## SirRumpole (11 February 2018)

TikoMike said:


> We live under the Duluth model where a man is guilty until proven innocent and even if they are proven innocent they still have to live with the stigma. Just look at the #metoo movement. It's crazy how men are losing their jobs over this **** and women not held accountable for these false accusations.
> 
> If a man is accused (sometimes without evidence) they face jail time, but then if the accuser, when proven false, faces no jail time under most circumstances? Ridiculous.




And if an accuser happens to be under age (and most kids under 16 are pretty street smart these days), then they can't be sued or arrested for lying. In these cases their parents should be considered responsible and should be charged with whatever their kids would be if they were adults.


----------



## TikoMike (11 February 2018)

Despite what your opinions are of Trump, he has got it right in this case.

https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=b4011242a85edc53b809137649dcef31&oe=5B1F8DC3


----------



## TikoMike (11 February 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> And if an accuser happens to be under age (and most kids under 16 are pretty street smart these days), then they can't be sued or arrested for lying. In these cases their parents should be considered responsible and should be charged with whatever their kids would be if they were adults.



Only if the parents had a hand in it then yeah I would agree with you. For example, giving instructions to their daughter to take that action. The fact that the kid knows what she can get away with at an early age is disturbing, but that's not necessarily the parent's fault - she could have heard about it from social groups for example.


----------



## moXJO (11 February 2018)

When a dem assemblywoman and avid supporter of the #metoo movement gets sprung.



> *California Assemblywoman Cristina Garcia accused of groping male staffer*






*https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www...tina-garcia-accused-of-groping-daniel-fierro/*


----------



## Tisme (12 February 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Disturbing report.
> 
> Individual harrassment cases are bad enough, but when it's institutionalised ...
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-09/the-cost-of-making-a-complaint-in-the-police-force/9397864




I know when I worked for a short time in the PS, the same kind of comments, teasing and innuendo were handed out by male to males, with added "poof, wanker et al " accusations .... the males seemed to survive the harassment...maybe not, maybe they joined the greens in later life?


----------



## SirRumpole (12 February 2018)

Tisme said:


> I know when I worked for a short time in the PS, the same kind of comments, teasing and innuendo were handed out by male to males, with added "poof, wanker et al " accusations .... the males seemed to survive the harassment...maybe not, maybe they joined the greens in later life?




We don't know whether they "survived" or not do we ?

Lots of suicides that no one knows the reason for.

Same as false allegations made for sexual assault etc.


----------



## Tisme (12 February 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> We don't know whether they "survived" or not do we ?
> 
> Lots of suicides that no one knows the reason for.
> 
> Same as false allegations made for sexual assault etc.




No, but all of us could be blissfully unaware of being guilty of tipping fragile people over... the straw that breaks the camels back as it were. 

I'm fairly sure suicide isn't driven by teasing and boy talk. But the suitability of screening for susceptible people who cannot integrate into the invariable Lord of the Flies working place sub cultures needs to be questioned.

I found the biggest bullies were women on women. You could sense the betrayal amongst the majority females that one, growing into a gang, of their own would behave,, not like juvenile men, but feral territorial at it's best.


----------



## basilio (12 February 2018)

_"I have alweays found that taking the biggest nastiest bullies out behind the shelter shed and giving them a damn good flogging did wonders for restoring a sense of calm to the rest of the school. They could just get on with their work and not worrry about the " Lord of the Flies" types who enjoy/savour the teasing and boy talk and toilet ducking, lunch stealing, trashing uniforms ect"

_


----------



## Tisme (12 February 2018)

basilio said:


> _"I have alweays found that taking the biggest nastiest bullies out behind the shelter shed and giving them a damn good flogging did wonders for restoring a sense of calm to the rest of the school. They could just get on with their work and not worrry about the " Lord of the Flies" types who enjoy/savour the teasing and boy talk and toilet ducking, lunch stealing, trashing uniforms ect"
> 
> _




Thoroughly consistent. One school the other the PS. Obviously the boys were sorted at school, the girls not. Thankyou


----------



## Tisme (12 February 2018)

I think we need to get our SJW squad onto this STAT! Some personal insults would be order of the day, followed by a Dick Tracey audit of her previous submissions.....



> The Australian
> 12:00AM October 25, 2017
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## SirRumpole (12 February 2018)

Tisme said:


> I think we need to get our SJW squad onto this STAT! Some personal insults would be order of the day, followed by a Dick Tracey audit of her previous submissions.....




A sensible article I thought.

It's why we need defamation laws. Without them there would be no defence against false allegations.


----------



## Tisme (13 February 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> A sensible article I thought.
> 
> It's why we need defamation laws. Without them there would be no defence against false allegations.




Yes she's positioning herself for the special QANDA show in a day or two. She has a lot to answer for, being one of the driving forces behind the ABC's slide into becoming the puritanical social engineering mouth piece.

I ascribe her about face on various issues from being exposed to Peta Credlin ... a woman's man if ever there was one.


----------



## Wysiwyg (13 February 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> A sensible article I thought.



Would I be going too far to suggest when money and careers are involved, women are less likely to report a sexual predator? I think this because it is a long time and many women later before these gluttons/criminals are being named and shamed. I mean is it such a big deal for the women to name them from the first. I know if I tried any of that shite I would be castrated.


----------



## SirRumpole (14 February 2018)

Wysiwyg said:


> I mean is it such a big deal for the women to name them from the first. I




I think it's getting easier for them to report offenders. It's also an easy way of getting rid of a job rival too.


----------



## Tisme (27 February 2018)

It will be interesting how things will play out with Barnaby insisting the informal complaint to the LNP by Catherine Marriott, about supposed sexual harassment, be formerly referred to police.

The sisters are already worried that the impunity of keeping allegations in house will be lost if they go to court. The excuse is it will cause anxiety and hurt to women.... don't worry about the males who have their careers ended by unproven and often mischievous women.


----------



## SirRumpole (27 February 2018)

Tisme said:


> It will be interesting how things will play out with Barnaby insisting the informal complaint to the LNP by Catherine Marriott, about supposed sexual harassment, be formerly referred to police.
> 
> The sisters are already worried that the impunity of keeping allegations in house will be lost if they go to court. The excuse is it will cause anxiety and hurt to women.... don't worry about the males who have their careers ended by unproven and often mischievous women.




Yes there has to be a balance. Report it to police as soon as possible, not have it dragged out years later.


----------



## Tisme (27 February 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Yes there has to be a balance. Report it to police as soon as possible, not have it dragged out years later.





My bet is that most people think it was Catherine who instigated police action, not Barnaby.

None of it would have come to light if one of the WA chapter LNP female members hadn't taken exception to Barnaby's private life and thrown Catherine under a bus. Said female squealer is immune to a dressing down because she isn't an anglo white male heterosexual, but will probably be elevated through the ranks.


----------



## sptrawler (2 March 2018)

Talk about mixed messages, I thought the message was meant to be women aren't  sex objects, then we have reports like this.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-...cebook-online-dating/9501848?section=analysis

From a female professor of psychology, at an Australian University. It gets all too hard, for us meer male's, to understand.


----------



## sptrawler (3 March 2018)

Just saw the advertisement on tv, for take me out Australia, interesting take on women as sex objects.
Maybe it should be canned, before it is aired.


----------



## newanimal (3 March 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Yes there are psychopaths in every industry.
> 
> Dangerous people. Can we think of an example in international politics ?




it'd be much simpler to make a list of who isn't.


----------



## sptrawler (7 March 2018)

The problem with sexual harrassment claims IMO, is it seems to be a culture of guilty until proven innocent, these two ABC articles IMO highlight the dilemma.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-...-accuser-catherine-marriott-hits-back/9524592

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-...ccusing-taxi-driver-of-sexual-assault/9197732

It is a deplorable act, but it is an easy accusation, and difficult to disprove.

The other problem is, of course, the media will run with a sexual harrassment claim, and what damage it does to the accused seems to be secondary.
Maybe we need a, #wait until I'm guilty, needs to be started?


----------



## Tisme (7 March 2018)

sptrawler said:


> The problem with sexual harrassment claims IMO, is it seems to be a culture of guilty until proven innocent, these two ABC articles IMO highlight the dilemma.
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-...-accuser-catherine-marriott-hits-back/9524592
> 
> ...





Be interesting when the next generation of wilting violet males build into enough numbers to start making complaint against women for inappropriate sexual advances.


----------



## sptrawler (7 March 2018)

Tisme said:


> Be interesting when the next generation of wilting violet males build into enough numbers to start making complaint against women for inappropriate sexual advances.




What I wonder, is how bad that taxi driver's life would have been, if they hadn't had video evidence that proved she was lying.


----------



## sptrawler (8 March 2018)

OMG is this going to become the goto claim, replacing the 'bad back', jeez it makes a grown person cry.lol
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...-by-opponent-during-game-20180308-p4z3ip.html


----------



## Tisme (9 March 2018)

sptrawler said:


> OMG is this going to become the goto claim, replacing the 'bad back', jeez it makes a grown person cry.lol
> https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...-by-opponent-during-game-20180308-p4z3ip.html





Eating their own now


----------



## basilio (9 March 2018)

*The details of the Robert Doyle - Tessa Sullivan sexual harrassment case.*

In interesting to see how the issues around Robert Dyle compounded and grew over time.  Also fascinating to see how the Herald Sun manipulatd pictures and text messages to create quite false versions of what had happened.

* Robert Doyle accuser Tessa Sullivan: 'All I want is the truth' *
 Melbourne 

*Interview:* The woman who accused the former Melbourne mayor of sexual assault and harassment tells her story and why she’s not interested in being a #MeToo warrior

It is three months since Tessa Sullivan resigned as a Melbourne city councillor, alleging the then mayor, Robert Doyle, had sexually harassed and assaulted her over several months.

And it has been five weeks since Doyle received the draft report of the investigation into Sullivan’s claims, and those of another councillor, Cathy Oke, who has also alleged sexual harassment.

*......
What happened *
The way Sullivan explains it, Doyle, 64, was physically affectionate with women, hugging and kissing them hello and goodbye in a way he did not do with men. At the beginning she found this unprofessional, but didn’t take it seriously and didn’t read it in a sexual way.

I reasoned that he was an old man who couldn’t possibly be interested in women my age

In her 35-page statement of resignation, she says: “After a while I began to feel uncomfortable with how much he was touching me. He would hug me tightly, almost pushing my chest towards his. He would put his hand on my waist quite low on my hip. He would put his arm sideways around me and kiss me repeatedly on the forehead … and he would constantly reiterate to staff and councillors how special I was and how he would do anything for me.”

Sullivan tried not to worry: “I reasoned that he was an old man who couldn’t possibly be interested in women my age.” She found him “grotesque”.

There was a drinking culture at the council, with catered dinners after Tuesday night council meetings. Sullivan says that on about five occasions, Doyle offered her a lift home with him and his driver.

On 2 May last year, she says that when Doyle was being dropped off he opened the door beside her, put one of his arms around her neck and grabbed her right breast. She says she slapped his hand away and that Doyle looked shocked that she had done so.

She later told her husband about what had happened, but he suggested she give Doyle the benefit of the doubt, that perhaps it was an accident and he had had too much to drink.

For a time, Sullivan says, Doyle’s behaviour improved, but then it became worse and she wished she had complained about the incident in the car.

“I found Doyle’s behaviour more and more abhorrent,” she says in her resignation statement. “It got to a point where I was afraid to take my work jacket off as I knew he would look straight at my cleavage. I stopped wearing heels and regularly wore my glasses. I just started to blame myself and kept trying to change my appearance so he would just stop leering at me, but it never helped and he always did.”

She avoided Doyle whenever possible, but on 31 October last year she walked with him to the elevator that would take them to the car park. She said to Doyle, “I will go down with you,” meaning in the elevator. He said, “Will you just?” and followed up with “I love cunnilingus.” Sullivan says she began to panic and resisted persistent requests from Doyle to give her a lift home.

She says she told several councillors about Doyle’s behaviour, but implored them not to report it.

Although Sullivan says she tried to avoid Doyle as much as possible, she never told him to stop what he was doing. They never had a conversation about it. She says she doesn’t regret that.

“I did feel like I fought him off,” she says. “I feel like I didn’t flirt with him; I know I didn’t. I strongly believe just because a woman looks a certain way or that she’s friendly, doesn’t mean that he had any right to do what he did to me.

“What I really did think about [later] was … why did I walk up that hallway with him? Why did I get in the car? I know 100% that I didn’t invite him and I tried to avoid him.”

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...ccuser-tessa-sullivan-all-i-want-is-the-truth


----------



## sptrawler (12 March 2018)

This #me too is really taking hold, don't know what this guy was doing, or what she was wearing but it is weird. Even for Perth.

https://thewest.com.au/news/perth/b...ar-while-filming-female-shopper-ng-b88771113z

I certainly hope they fill us in on the details, sounds sordid.lol


----------



## Tisme (13 March 2018)

sptrawler said:


> This #me too is really taking hold, don't know what this guy was doing, or what she was wearing but it is weird. Even for Perth.
> 
> https://thewest.com.au/news/perth/b...ar-while-filming-female-shopper-ng-b88771113z
> 
> I certainly hope they fill us in on the details, sounds sordid.lol





My guess is it's not so much an obscene act, but an obscene display.


----------



## SirRumpole (5 April 2018)

Is there no end to this pointless inquisition ?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-...t-to-find-the-last-surviving-munchkin/9610256


----------



## Tisme (5 April 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Is there no end to this pointless inquisition ?
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-...t-to-find-the-last-surviving-munchkin/9610256




Never did trust Munchkins


----------



## Tisme (12 April 2018)

Quite the net, sans heterosexual men who are all indelibly evil


----------



## basilio (25 April 2018)

Some disturbing issues coming out of the guy who ran amok with a van in Toronto.  It apears he is part of a very misogynistic NCEL group (Involuntary Celibacy).

* Toronto attack: Facebook post may link suspect to misogynistic online subculture *
Post appears to connect alleged killer with ‘incel’, or ‘involuntary celibate’, communities that have made sexual frustration the basis for misogyny

Jason Wilson

 @jason_a_w 
Tue 24 Apr 2018 19.14 EDT   First published on Tue 24 Apr 2018 18.52 EDT

*Shares*
733
Shortly before a rented van ploughed into a crowd of pedestrians in Toronto, killing 10 and wounding 14 others, a short and cryptic message was posted on the Facebook account of Alek Minassian, the man accused of carrying out the attack.

The post referred to another mass killer – Elliot Rodger, who shot dead six people and wounded 13 others in Isla Vista, California, in 2014 – and said that the “incel rebellion has already begun. We will overthrow all the Chads and the Stacys”.

Minassian’s Facebook account has since been deleted and police have yet to suggest a motive for the attack, but the post appeared to connect the alleged killer with the so-called “incel” movement, which has made collective sexual frustration the basis for a deeply misogynistic online subculture.

Incel stands for “involuntary celibate”, and the people who identify with the label are almost exclusively male. On incels.me, the subculture’s leading online forum, an incel is described as someone who “can’t have sex despite wanting to”, and is thus also denied the pleasures of relationships. (In incel lingo, sexually successful men are known as “Chads”, and attractive women are called “Stacys”).

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...cebook-post-may-link-suspect-with-incel-group


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## Darc Knight (28 April 2018)

I really think our Society has swung to far in favour of Women. My undoing is my soft spot for any battler or victim, but my latest partner seems to know this and uses it to her advantage. Thus my posting on a lonesome Saturday night lol.

I really think our Society breeds and encourages dominant narcissistic Women. We need to fight for true equality.


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## Tisme (29 April 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> I really think our Society has swung to far in favour of Women. My undoing is my soft spot for any battler or victim, but my latest partner seems to know this and uses it to her advantage. Thus my posting on a lonesome Saturday night lol.
> 
> I really think our Society breeds and encourages dominant narcissistic Women. We need to fight for true equality.




Be a lot cheaper if you hired a call girl for the weekends


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## Wysiwyg (29 April 2018)

basilio said:


> It apears he is part of a very misogynistic NCEL group (Involuntary Celibacy).



It has always been girls can get it whenever they want. Of course there are billions of frustrated males in the world and that is why football and internet pr0n are popular. No to mysoginy. It's a testosterone thing so just masturbate when necessary.


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## Darc Knight (30 April 2018)

Tisme said:


> Be a lot cheaper if you hired a call girl for the weekends




When you're as handsome as myself and Joe Blow getting sex isnti the problem. ( Yes, obvious "brown-nosing" of Administrator).
My problem was, and is for every Male, that Women are more naturally cunning and manipulative and our Society does advantage them.
My instinct told me keep away from her but a Mate kept introducing her to me then she kept approaching me. So eventually I became her "white knight".
We should send our dominant narcissistic Women to those Countries where Women are oppressed and bring their Women here. An exchange program. Let the Taliban and "femonazi's" sort each other out.


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## moXJO (30 April 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> When you're as handsome as myself and Joe Blow getting sex isnti the problem. ( Yes, obvious "brown-nosing" of Administrator).
> My problem was, and is for every Male, that Women are more naturally cunning and manipulative and our Society does advantage them.
> My instinct told me keep away from her but a Mate kept introducing her to me then she kept approaching me. So eventually I became her "white knight".
> We should send our dominant narcissistic Women to those Countries where Women are oppressed and bring their Women here. An exchange program. Let the Taliban and "femonazi's" sort each other out.



Why not just leave?


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## Darc Knight (30 April 2018)

moXJO said:


> Why not just leave?



I have. Thanks for the concern.


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## Tisme (30 April 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> When you're as handsome as myself and Joe Blow getting sex isnti the problem. ( Yes, obvious "brown-nosing" of Administrator).
> My problem was, and is for every Male, that Women are more naturally cunning and manipulative and our Society does advantage them.
> My instinct told me keep away from her but a Mate kept introducing her to me then she kept approaching me. So eventually I became her "white knight".
> We should send our dominant narcissistic Women to those Countries where Women are oppressed and bring their Women here. An exchange program. Let the Taliban and "femonazi's" sort each other out.




To be fair there must be a lot of women out there who don't make men's lives a misery. It just might be a resilience issue of some men, or some blokes are just magnets to incendiary women.

Apart from a seemingly small percentage of big girls blouses,  primal encoding of men tends to be about spearing things and bragging about the conquest. Women like to talk about boring stuff......endlessly, presumably because the men of the tribe were out and about stalking prey while the women sat around complaining about the imbecile they paired up.

I don't think there would be many, if any, cultures in the world where you would find obsequious women by nature.


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## SirRumpole (30 April 2018)

Tisme said:


> Women like to talk about boring stuff......endlessly, presumably because the men of the tribe were out and about stalking prey while the women sat around complaining about the imbecile they paired up.




Have you ever tried to watch The Drum on ABC ?

They have a few token men occasionally, but most of the time it's emotional excitable women who sit around clucking and talking vacuously over each other like they are at a hen's night at the pub.

Totally incomprehensible most of the time.


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## Tisme (30 April 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Have you ever tried to watch The Drum on ABC ?
> 
> They have a few token men occasionally, but most of the time it's emotional excitable women who sit around clucking and talking vacuously over each other like they are at a hen's night at the pub.
> 
> Totally incomprehensible most of the time.




Even my staunch ABC advocate sibling has given up defending the ABC's agenda ... that's like bas admitting he is wrong and I was right ....... astonishing.


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## basilio (7 March 2019)

Who would have thunk it ?

* Senator Martha McSally says she was raped while serving in air force *
Arizona Republican, the first female fighter pilot to fly in combat, spoke about her experience during a Senate hearing Wednesday

Associated Press

Thu 7 Mar 2019 07.49 AEDT   Last modified on Thu 7 Mar 2019 08.56 AEDT

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Senator Martha McSally speaks during Senate Armed Services Subcommittee hearing on preventing sexual assault on Capitol Hill. Photograph: Joshua Roberts/Reuters
Senator Martha McSally, the first female fighter pilot to fly in combat, has said she was raped in the air force by a superior officer.

The Arizona Republican, a 26-year military veteran, made the disclosure at a Senate hearing on Wednesday on the armed services’ efforts to prevent sexual assaults and improve the response when they occur.

McSally said she did not report being sexually assaulted because she did not trust the system, and she said she was ashamed and confused. McSally did not name the officer who she says raped her.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/mar/06/martha-mcsally-sexual-assault-air-force


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## basilio (4 July 2020)

Sexual harrassment in the work place  has been spectacularly  highlighted with accusations against a former High Court Judge. After these publicly surfaced a number of other women noted they had also had to fend off similar behavior and factor in  the consequences making a fuss at the time.

This analysis does a good job of explaining why the legal profession has been rife with sexual harassment.

* 'We're all gentlemen here': Australia's legal profession can pretend no more *
The law is slowly confronting its toxic culture of sexual harassment. The Dyson Heydon allegations will only speed things up

The law is slow to change. For almost 30 years, the majority of law graduates in Australia have been women. And yet, when these brilliant young women enter the workplace, out-competing all their fellow graduates for a bottom-rung position at a top law firm or a prestigious posting as a judge’s associate, their bosses are still, invariably men.

“We still do have mostly men in positions of power,” says Kate Jenkins, the Australian sex discrimination commissioner. “Men who do identify with often the accused more than the victim, who haven’t had the experience of being harassed but do look at these things and question – not only ‘I can’t believe he did it’ but also ‘I’d hate to think people thought I did it’.”

The legal profession in Australia has long known it has a sexual harassment problem. A 2019 report by the International Bar Association found that 47% of women and 13% of men working in the law in Australia had experienced workplace sexual harassment, higher than a global average of 37% of women and 7% of men.

But the news that a former judge of the high court of Australia, Dyson Heydon, had been accused of sexual harassment by a number of women, and that an independent investigation commissioned by the high court had found Heydon had sexually harassed six former high court staff members, has turned the law’s seedy underbelly into a problem the profession cannot ignore.
https://www.theguardian.com/law/202...stralias-legal-profession-can-pretend-no-more


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## SirRumpole (4 July 2020)

basilio said:


> Sexual harrassment in the work place  has been spectacularly  highlighted with accusations against a former High Court Judge. After these publicly surfaced a number of other women noted they had also had to fend off similar behavior and factor in  the consequences making a fuss at the time.
> 
> This analysis does a good job of explaining why the legal profession has been rife with sexual harassment.
> 
> ...




IMV harassment is all over the place. The medical profession has a lot to answer for as does the military and police forces around the country.

But it goes both ways. Some women use their sexuality to get ahead. Maybe some would try this, get rebuffed and take revenge. These cases are never reported because it's politically incorrect to do so.


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## macca (4 July 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> IMV harassment is all over the place. The medical profession has a lot to answer for as does the military and police forces around the country.
> 
> But it goes both ways. Some women use their sexuality to get ahead. Maybe some would try this, get rebuffed and take revenge. These cases are never reported because it's politically incorrect to do so.




Very true SR, I wonder how many women are Not famous because they said No. If every woman had said No then merit would decide who got the role.

It also raises the question of how many women that are famous are only famous because they said Yes.

History shows that women have been using "charm" to get their way forever but I still find it sad. 

Perhaps it is caused by our genetically programmed need to breed, nature does not care about civilized rules, it just wants us to procreate as often as possible.

I have six granddaughters, it is something that is of concern.


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## basilio (5 July 2020)

macca said:


> Very true SR, I wonder how many women are Not famous because they said No. If every woman had said No then merit would decide who got the role.
> 
> It also raises the question of how many women that are famous are only famous because they said Yes.
> 
> ...




This is really, really  disturbing and sad...
We have the situation where a noted High Court Judge  is called out by multiple women for  groping, sexual aggression whatever.  The incidents are historical and until no fear of losing their positions has meant everyone bit their tongue.

*Finally* the dam breaks.  The hidden abuse of power is exposed.  And yet the response  on ASF is 

1) Well maybe women have been "using their charms" to get ahead or 
2) How do we know any women who got ahead in their profession did so on merit at all ?


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## SirRumpole (5 July 2020)

basilio said:


> This is really, really  disturbing and sad...
> We have the situation where a noted High Court Judge  is called out by multiple women for  groping, sexual aggression whatever.  The incidents are historical and until no fear of losing their positions has meant everyone bit their tongue.
> 
> *Finally* the dam breaks.  The hidden abuse of power is exposed.  And yet the response  on ASF is
> ...




"Some" men are sexual harrassers, they deserve all they get.

"Some" women use sexuality to get ahead. I don't think you can deny that it happens, it's been happening for centuries.


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## Smurf1976 (6 July 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> "Some" women use sexuality to get ahead. I don't think you can deny that it happens, it's been happening for centuries.




Like all of these debates it comes down to context.

Nobody would deny that a stripper is doing exactly that surely.

Nobody would expect a lawyer to be using that approach.


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## SirRumpole (6 July 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Like all of these debates it comes down to context.
> 
> Nobody would deny that a stripper is doing exactly that surely.
> 
> Nobody would expect a lawyer to be using that approach.




I wouldn't assume all lawyers have the same high moral standards...


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## sptrawler (6 July 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Like all of these debates it comes down to context.
> 
> Nobody would deny that a stripper is doing exactly that surely.
> 
> Nobody would expect a lawyer to be using that approach.



You don't think sexual favours, are used in the upper echelons of society?


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## macca (6 July 2020)

basilio said:


> This is really, really  disturbing and sad...
> We have the situation where a noted High Court Judge  is called out by multiple women for  groping, sexual aggression whatever.  The incidents are historical and until no fear of losing their positions has meant everyone bit their tongue.
> 
> *Finally* the dam breaks.  The hidden abuse of power is exposed.  And yet the response  on ASF is
> ...




Given that I was referring to the women "who were given roles" surely it would suggest that I am talking about the entertainment industry.

I am not surprised that the legal profession would have grubs as well, in days gone by a Uni degree was also an excuse for an inflated ego and the old boys club secerecy was even stronger than today.

I don't think that taking advantage of power is ever a good thing, I have been anti bullying all my life and had a few scraps with bullies to prove it when younger.

When in business my staff were always aware that should anyone sexually harass them that they should tell me directly, not through their supervisors.

By the same token,  I can assure you that plenty of women sort favours from me by "using their feminine wiles" over the years, back then it was called flirting.

As I said before I have six granddaughters, nothing would suit me better than they have the opportunity to progress in the world without sexual harassment.

That said, I think it highly likely one of them will be flirt, it is part of her nature, hopefully it doesn't get her into strife later on


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## Smurf1976 (6 July 2020)

sptrawler said:


> You don't think sexual favours, are used in the upper echelons of society?




I've no doubt at all that they are.

My basic thought though is that a stripper or sex worker is doing it blatantly and nobody would sensibly deny that, it goes with the job, whereas a decent lawyer should be able to succeed without going down that track. That doesn't mean they won't do it, just that they should be able to get somewhere without doing it in practice. Worst case they might need to change employers.

That said, well I know someone who'd never deny having ensured the gentlemen she did business with understood their prompt agreement and signature would bring them much pleasure. 

For the record I never had business dealings with her (true story).


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## qldfrog (7 July 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Like all of these debates it comes down to context.
> 
> Nobody would deny that a stripper is doing exactly that surely.
> 
> Nobody would expect a lawyer to be using that approach.



It would be really naive or immature to even believe that an attractive woman would  not use her charm just because it is a professional environment or against a vague code of conduct


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## IFocus (7 July 2020)

Worked with a lot women (engineers mainly) never once seen or heard any use their female attractions to gain flavor quite the opposite saw incompetent males get higher pay, promotions etc over the girls who as a rule were better at their roles.

If I wanted clever solutions I usually went to the girls and that was right across all disciplines.


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## moXJO (7 July 2020)

IFocus said:


> Worked with a lot women (engineers mainly) never once seen or heard any use their female attractions to gain flavor quite the opposite saw incompetent males get higher pay, promotions etc over the girls who as a rule were better at their roles.
> 
> If I wanted clever solutions I usually went to the girls and that was right across all disciplines.




Female engineers huh. So they never batted their mustaches seductively at you?


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## Smurf1976 (7 July 2020)

qldfrog said:


> It would be really naive or immature to even believe that an attractive woman would  not use her charm just because it is a professional environment or against a vague code of conduct




I should clarify that the woman I've referred to was doing it to advantage her business dealings but not to gain employment etc in a professional environment.

No laws were broken, it was just another tool in the box for negotiation. A way to get their signature on a contract in a timely manner.

We met at a political meeting back in the 1990's for the record.


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## Smurf1976 (7 July 2020)

moXJO said:


> Female engineers huh. So they never batted their mustaches seductively at you?




Those I've dealt with were always 100% strictly professional during working hours.


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## IFocus (7 July 2020)

moXJO said:


> Female engineers huh. So they never batted their mustaches seductively at you?




Haha actually most were attractive even the Mechanical Engineers maybe I got on so well cause I was a "chic magnet" .....like yourself .

Some of the Asian girls were insanely clever doubled everyone's work load.


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## moXJO (8 July 2020)

IFocus said:


> Haha actually most were attractive even the Mechanical Engineers maybe I got on so well cause I was a "chic magnet" .....like yourself .
> 
> Some of the Asian girls were insanely clever doubled everyone's work load.



Yep it's hard being handsome.

I find Asian women are extremely clever and hard working.


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## basilio (21 November 2020)

Another high profile in these Modeling world has been accused of sex abuse by many of the models he employed.








						'What he was doing was in plain sight': more ex-models accuse Gérald Marie of sexual assault
					

Another seven women come forward with allegations about the former Elite boss




					www.theguardian.com
				




...  Donaldson recalled telling her London agent, Ziggi Golding, at the time about what had occurred with Marie. Golding confirmed that conversation with the Guardian. She said she chose not to affiliate her agency, Z, with Paris Planning because Marie’s reputation as a predator was “well-known”.

Serene Cicora, 57, another agent from the 80s and 90s, also recalled “a definite pattern” in the stories she was told about Marie, adding “dozens of models told me about his predatory behaviour”.

Cicora said the sheer number of accusers, combined with what many of them say about how Marie abused his power to coerce victims, threatening their careers if they refused sex, suggests he may be “the Harvey Weinstein of the fashion industry”.


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## SirRumpole (27 February 2021)

Is anyone else asking the question as to why some victims wait over 30 years to make allegations ?

In the latest case, the alleged perp was not a politician at the time of the event, so there was not a power relationship involved.

I'm not saying it's not true, but any evidence would no longer exist.

Same with Bill Shorten. Allegations were made but never proved.

So why bother with it now ?


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## basilio (27 February 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Is anyone else asking the question as to why some victims wait over 30 years to make allegations ?
> 
> In the latest case, the alleged perp was not a politician at the time of the event, so there was not a power relationship involved.
> 
> ...




It's never that simple is it Rumpy ?  The girl was a very intelligent 16 year old school girl who was anally raped in 1988. Had a great future to look forward to and this incident shattered her. 

The story didn't just come out today. Your right of course that there is no way of anyone coming up with proof at this stage. However from my reading she just didn't want this incident to be ignored and forgotten.

The history of most of these incidents is that when one allegation is raised many other victims have the courage to raise their voices. The Brittany Higgins allegations have already resulted in three other allegations. Almost all the child sex abuse cases ended up with multiple victims.  The initial charges against Harvey Weinsten ended up with 80 additional incidents. A two minute interest search will  highlight the fact that it seems relatively rare for these incidents to be one off behaviors.









						Cabinet Minister accused of rape in letter sent to Scott Morrison, senators
					

The AFP have been notified after Prime Minister Scott Morrison and two senators received a letter detailing an allegation of historical rape against a Cabinet Minister.




					www.abc.net.au
				







__





						Sexual abuse in the American film industry - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				











						'Sorry doesn't fix the years of suffering': Survivor of paedophile nurse angry police ignored allegations
					

Keelie McMahon is angry and cannot fathom why it took so long for Tasmania Police to charge a paediatric nurse with child sex offences, as complaints piled up against him.




					www.abc.net.au


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## basilio (27 February 2021)

There is a much bigger story developing in Sydney around sexual assaults on young girls by young guys.

Again one girl put her hand up to open the conversation about what happened to her when she was at her elite  Sydney private  school. To date there are 3000 stories  already documented and 23,000 signatories to a petition directed to school Principals and the Government.

It will be interesting to see what the relationship was between the woman who alleged she was raped by the current Cabinet Minister at the time.

The trouble with boys: what lies behind the flood of teenage sexual assault stories?​Young women are being failed by a society that seems unable – or unwilling – to address rape culture and its grave consequences






Lucy Clark

@lucykateclark
Fri 26 Feb 2021 14.00 EST
Last modified on Fri 26 Feb 2021 14.02 EST


Page after page after page. Story after story after story: hundreds of them. Stories of boys raping girls, boys forcing girls to perform oral sex, boys anally raping girls, boys assaulting their girlfriends, boys assaulting girls who are unconscious, sharing the stories and the images and the videos with their friends. In one case, uploading illicitly-taken videos to a widely available pr0n website. Some girls are as young as 13. The boys are their peers.

These stories coalesced into a litany of horror over the past week as part of a petition started by former Sydney schoolgirl Chanel Contos, now 23, in an effort to convince the school principals of elite private schools in Sydney to implement consent education earlier and better.

The petition has now busted out of its eastern suburbs bubble and had, at the time of writing, grown to almost 3,000 testimonies and about 23,000 signatories from all over Australia and the world, now to be sent to MPs to convey the urgency of the situation.

....*He raped me twice and they let him get away with it. What more do you need to know?’*
This one-sentence testimony above was bleak in its brevity, and sharp in meaning: boys and men get away with sexual assault, this is a large part of how and why it keeps on happening. Accountability for sexual violence is so low in our justice systems – only one in 10 reported cases of sexual assault ends in conviction – and the chilling effect trickles downwards to other institutions and schools.









						The trouble with boys: what lies behind the flood of teenage sexual assault stories?
					

Young women are being failed by a society that seems unable – or unwilling – to address rape culture and its grave consequences




					www.theguardian.com


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## Smurf1976 (1 March 2021)

basilio said:


> There is a much bigger story developing in Sydney around sexual assaults on young girls by young guys.



Agreed but I'll broaden that by removing a few words:

"There is a much bigger story around assaults".

If it was just sexual assaults then there wouldn't be so many victims. That's not to in any way downplay sexual assault, I'm just pointing out that abuse in various forms is rife sadly and there are many victims - women, men, children, animals all cop it.


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## basilio (11 March 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Is anyone else asking the question as to why some victims wait over 30 years to make allegations ?
> 
> In the latest case, the alleged perp was not a politician at the time of the event, so there was not a power relationship involved.
> 
> ...




Perhaps this experience and analysis adds some light to this universal question.
_
Fourteen years ago I was raped by a stranger at knife-point. I told no one at the time. I did not whisper a word of it until more than 11 years later, in a small therapy office in Sydney, when my therapist asked me why I had moved my chair to a far corner of the room. I said I couldn’t bear to sit any closer to him. He asked me why and, for the first time, the story came out of me, fully formed.

The night I was raped at 15 years old, I did not consider going to a hospital or to the police. I did not even consider telling my parents or my closest friends. This is despite the fact that my rape would have been one of the easier ones to prosecute – I was covered in bruises, snaked across my abdomen from where he had pushed me against a wall. My gymnastics coach told me later, on inspecting my body after I lied to him about a bad fall, that he suspected I had a few broken ribs._









						I was raped as a teenager. Here is why I didn’t consider going to the police | Lucia Osborne-Crowley
					

The statistics betray the horrible truth of just how severely rape survivors are gaslighted in Australia




					www.theguardian.com


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## basilio (15 March 2021)

The Labour party hasn't been ringing with denunciations of the Attorney General. Bit more circumspect.
The facts are, and always were,  that there are plenty of examples of harassment and abuse in Labour politics.









						Female Labor staffers share details of workplace sexual harassment and abuse
					

Women in a closed social media group of 1,300 current and former Labor staffers say men in the party must be ‘held to account’ for their actions




					www.theguardian.com


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## basilio (15 March 2021)

This is the background to the online petition that has seen thousands of stories of sexual abuse amongst high school children. 









						'Do they even know they did this to us?': why I launched the school sexual assault petition | Chanel Contos
					

Australia has been confronted with the harsh reality that we live in a rape culture




					www.theguardian.com


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## basilio (15 March 2021)

Interesting observation about ScoMo's response to the women outside Parliament house.

Tatiana Andersen
@tatiandersen
·
22m

_Scott Morrison opens his #qt speech on #March4Justice with this: "not far from here, such marches, even now, are being met with bullets, but not here in this country". If you thought the bar couldn't get any lower we're at the 'just be glad we're not shooting you' stage __#auspol_


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## SirRumpole (15 March 2021)

basilio said:


> Interesting observation about ScoMo's response to the women outside Parliament house.
> 
> Tatiana Andersen
> @tatiandersen
> ...




I don't blame Morrison for not meeting them outside, it's hard to discuss matters civilly with a mob especially when they are riled up by emotion.

He gave them a chance to meet in quieter circumstances and they refused, which I think was fairly silly.


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## SirRumpole (15 March 2021)

What a weird case. Former Army officer keeps 'slaves', but the women say it was consensual.

Do they deserve what they got ? 









						Felicity was kept as a 'slave', caged and tattooed. Now she wants her 'master' held accountable
					

On an isolated rural property in New South Wales, a man has been keeping six women as sex slaves. One of his former partners is speaking out in a bid to help them and encourage others to come forward. Warning: This story contains descriptions of extreme violence and sexual abuse.




					www.abc.net.au


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## basilio (15 March 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> I don't blame Morrison for not meeting them outside, it's hard to discuss matters civilly with a mob especially when they are riled up by emotion.
> 
> He gave them a chance to meet in quieter circumstances and they refused, which I think was fairly silly.



Maybe.  Maybe however women have seen just how pointless going the "right" way has been historically.


The dropping of the Brittany Higgins case into the back drawer.
The drawn out police processes that just ...don't... happen.
The undermining/gaslighting of victims and their friends when any such cases are raised to destroy their credibility
The continued behaviours of public officials with no effective way to challenge them.
The fact that investigations into events long past still have no actions. See below
Morrison went on to say:


> I acknowledge the frustration and share the disappointment of what has not been achieved. Those who gather outside the place today, an invitation was offered to them for a meeting with me today. A good faith action, but I respect their right of organisers to choose not to meet.
> That is their right and I respect the right. If we were to meet, I would advise them of the following of the matters raised in virtue of the petition.
> We all agree that all cases of gendered violence should be referred to the authorities.
> Police are the appropriate independent authority. As terribly difficult as it must be, going to the police and making a statement is the only way to achieve justice and to ensure the perpetrator can no longer harm anyone else.
> *The Australian government is committed to ensuring all Australian workplaces are safe and free from sexual harassment and assault. The government commissioned the Australian Human Rights Commission’s respect at work in the women’s economic security statement in the budget.*




*Amy Remeikis *has very astutely pointed out over on the politics live blog that the government *has had this report for over a year and has yet to respond.*

-----------------------------------------------------
Winner of the Best sign at the Rally outside Parliament.

*I'm 12 and I'm already sick of this xhit"*
carried by a 12 year old.









						Women's March 4 Justice: Brittany Higgins addresses Canberra protest as crowds mass in Sydney and Melbourne – as it happened
					

Tens of thousands of people marched in Canberra, Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane to demand action in response to allegations of workplace abuse




					www.theguardian.com


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## Smurf1976 (16 March 2021)

basilio said:


> Maybe however women have seen just how pointless going the "right" way has been historically.
> 
> 
> The dropping of the Brittany Higgins case into the back drawer.
> ...



I'll suggest that the words of yours which I've quoted here are correct as a standalone statement.

That is, they don't mention sexual assault and there's no need to since, and this is my point, they apply to a drastically wider range of issues covering all manner of subjects.

That's not to downplay the seriousness of sexual assault but in truth that's only the tip of the iceberg. The problem runs far deeper than that alone.....

Suffice to say I'm 100% certain of my comments there.


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## Clansman (16 March 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> I'll suggest that the words of yours which I've quoted here are correct as a standalone statement.
> 
> That is, they don't mention sexual assault and there's no need to since, and this is my point, they apply to a drastically wider range of issues covering all manner of subjects.
> 
> ...




you've seemed 100% percent certain of many of your comments about an array of subjects here.
Suffice to say, you're very close to being 100% wrong in that regard. I see no orphan here. As a rule you are just a bad judge...... period.
I'm no Nostradamus, but nor should I need to be, You are an easy predict every time.


----------



## Smurf1976 (16 March 2021)

Clansman said:


> you've seemed 100% percent certain of many of your comments about an array of subjects here.
> Suffice to say, you're very close to being 100% wrong in that regard. I see no orphan here. As a rule you are just a bad judge...... period.




Your comment is somewhat amusing given that a substantial number of my posts specifically state that doubt exists, that there are uncertainties and so on. Something that any successful investor or trader will be well aware of - there's always doubt, nothing is certain indeed that's the very nature of markets.

In regard to the specific incidents to which I am referring, I'll simply stand back and watch what happens with that one. 

For the avoidance of doubt however, I will state firmly that I am not an accused person.


----------



## Clansman (16 March 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> Your comment is somewhat amusing given that a substantial number of my posts specifically state that doubt exists, that there are uncertainties and so on. Something that any successful investor or trader will be well aware of - there's always doubt, nothing is certain indeed that's the very nature of markets.
> 
> In regard to the specific incidents to which I am referring, I'll simply stand back and watch what happens with that one.
> 
> For the avoidance of doubt however, I will state firmly that I am not an accused person.




You need to edit your post and remove the "any successful investor or trader will be aware of" part.
It's a contradiction in terms to include that in relation to any of your posts.


----------



## basilio (16 March 2021)

Clansman said:


> you've seemed 100% percent certain of many of your comments about an array of subjects here.
> Suffice to say, you're very close to being 100% wrong in that regard. I see no orphan here. As a rule you are just a bad judge...... period.
> I'm no Nostradamus, but nor should I need to be, You are an easy predict every time.




Well there we are.  All we need to do to establish what is "right" is

1) Take the opposite view to Smurf
2) Follow our new guru Clansman.

No need for  experience, logic, analysis or other references.


----------



## Smurf1976 (16 March 2021)

basilio said:


> Well there we are. All we need to do to establish what is "right" is
> 
> 1) Take the opposite view to Smurf
> 2) Follow our new guru Clansman.
> ...



I'll simply observe that opposing views are valuable and intelligent people actively seek to hear and understand the opposing side of an argument. That does not mean that they'll necessarily agree with it, just that they wish to understand it and consider the merits of the argument put forward.

Attempting to silence the other side by means of personal attacks is a tactic that has a great deal of relevance to the thread subject for all the wrong reasons.


----------



## SirRumpole (16 March 2021)

Everyone agrees that something should be done, but what ?

In my view if a bloke is convicted of violence against women they have proven themselves to be a threat and would be likely to reoffend.

I reckon , once convicted they need to be monitored electronically indefinitely after their release.

This would obviously be a deterrent to offending in the first place, as well as a safety measure for other women.

Women also have to realise that more convictions are needed so these low lifes don't get to repeat their crimes.

That means faster reporting so that the necessary evidence can be collected , rather than relying on verbal evidence later on.


----------



## Smurf1976 (16 March 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> In my view if a bloke is convicted of violence against women they have proven themselves to be a threat and would be likely to reoffend.



Personally I'd remove the gender specific aspect since the problem is the crime not the gender of the people involved.

Assault is assault and harassment is harassment whether the victim is male, female or gender non-binary.

Assault against animals likewise. The silent, unheard from victims of much domestic violence sadly.

Once it becomes gender specific, it turns into a male versus female debate and misses the point that the problem is the crime not the gender.


----------



## SirRumpole (16 March 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> Personally I'd remove the gender specific aspect since the problem is the crime not the gender of the people involved.
> 
> Assault is assault and harassment is harassment whether the victim is male, female or gender non-binary.
> 
> ...




Yes, sure by all means. The vast majority of dv's are perpetrated by men but not all so I'm quite happy to go "genderless" in this debate.


----------



## Smurf1976 (16 March 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Yes, sure by all means. The vast majority of dv's are perpetrated by men but not all so I'm quite happy to go "genderless" in this debate.



To put some figures on it:

The 2016 ABS Personal Safety Survey (PSS) estimated that 17% of women and 4.3% of men have experienced at least one sexual assault since the age of 15.

Whilst male victims are clearly less common than female victims, it would be an injustice to dismiss the effect of such assaults on the estimated 385,000 male victims (there being 1.6 million female victims).

Same with any minority issue. Eg disabled people, Aboriginals and homosexuals are all examples of minorities but I doubt that anyone would seriously suggest that a crime committed against them ought be dismissed simply on that basis of being a minority.

More recent data is somewhat closer in terms of the gender of victims with the PSS estimating 148,000 women and 57,200 men had been sexually assaulted at least once in the 12 months prior to the survey. Men are still a minority of victims but a pretty substantial one.

For offenders it's more clear cut, 97% being male, but at the risk of stating the obvious (and this is where these sort of debates tend to derail) that doesn't mean 97% of men are a danger to the community. If 1.1% of adults have been sexually assaulted in the past 12 months, and 97% of the offenders were male, then that means at least 97.9% of men were not an offender. 

To the extent that offenders have more than one victim, that 97.9% of men not offending would be even higher. That is, the majority of men are not offenders despite the majority of offenders being men. Point being to stop the criminals, not to punish the innocent, and not to dismiss victims outside the most common scenarios.

From this:  https://www.aihw.gov.au/getmedia/03...-d54c74fa601a/aihw-fdv-5.pdf.aspx?inline=true


----------



## SirRumpole (16 March 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> Men are still a minority of victims but a pretty substantial one.




A surprising number of male victims. 

Is this adult male victims or does it include the activities of the Catholic Church against boys ?


----------



## SirRumpole (16 March 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> A surprising number of male victims.
> 
> Is this adult male victims or does it include the activities of the Catholic Church against boys ?




Looks like it's people aged 18 or over.


----------



## sptrawler (16 March 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Yes, sure by all means. The vast majority of dv's are perpetrated by men but not all so I'm quite happy to go "genderless" in this debate.



That is true because dv is usually of a physical nature, I wonder how many spouses are driven to suicide by mental abuse?


----------



## SirRumpole (16 March 2021)

sptrawler said:


> That is true because dv is usually of a physical nature, I wonder how many spouses are driven to suicide by mental abuse?




We will never know.

The abuser (male or female) won't admit it and the victim isn't talking either.


----------



## basilio (17 March 2021)

Will 'Promising Young Woman' Get Its 'Joker' Moment?​ 
Carey Mulligan's Oscar-nominated performance in the rape revenge thriller is a howl of female rage. The question is whether anyone is listening

By                    Olivia Ovenden 

                                                                           16/03/2021                    







   Universal    

_Promising Young Woman _begins with a sleight of hand. We watch Cassie (Carey Mulligan) taken home by a 'nice guy' who wanted to make sure she was safe after spotting her slumped and alone in a club. After he has pushed and pushed her until finally he gets her on her back, she instantly snaps back to being sober. Gotcha!
The trick which Cassie plays with men – revenge, we later discover, on behalf of her friend Nina who was sexually assaulted – tells you who so many men are when they think nobody is watching. This bait and switch not only inspires anger at the men for what they were trying to get away with, but also at the woman who exposed something they hoped was carefully hidden.

https://www.esquire.com/uk/culture/film/a35242156/promising-young-woman-oscars-carey-mulligan-joker/


----------



## basilio (17 March 2021)

This makes sense.  Bi-partisan call for sexual assault/harassment allegations in parliament to be kept confidential.... And then make sure they are taken seriously..









						Brittany Higgins, Thérèse Rein and Lucy Turnbull join women calling for sexual assault allegations to be kept confidential
					

Bipartisan group of political staff write to Scott Morrison and Anthony Albanese




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## basilio (18 March 2021)

This summed up why 100,000 woman marched around Australia on Monday and the change in perspective required by the Government.


----------



## sptrawler (18 March 2021)

sptrawler said:


> We seem to be moving into a very vague law system, where the onus is becoming proving innocence as opposed to proving guilt, which isn't a problem as long as it isn't you that are the brunt of the accusation.
> I heard today that the young lady who is Australian of the year, has called for the State and Federal Government to define what is consent, I personally think that will be self resolving,* if I was a young bloke I would be asking for a signed agreement before taking anyone to bed*.



Well that was said a few days ago, now look what has happened, technology don't you love it.  .









						‘Can’t be solved in 24 hours’: Premier refuses to comment on top cop’s sexual consent app idea
					

NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian says she will not be forced to comment on a proposal for a mobile phone app to record sexual consent because it was not a conversation that could be solved in 24 hours.




					www.smh.com.au


----------



## basilio (18 March 2021)

Interesting SP. The holes and challenges of the consent app just scream out. As Mick Fuller said just consider it (before ditching it..)

This analysis just makes a start of how challenging/dangerous such an app would be








						NSW police commissioner admits his sex consent app proposal 'could be a terrible idea'
					

Mick Fuller says there is ‘a range of things’ he’d love to come out of a conversation about consent ‘and the app is not necessarily one of them’




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## basilio (18 March 2021)

On a different note this is an excellent discission on what sex might/could mean to men and women.  It goes to the heart of whether sex is "recreational" , "no big deal" or far more  significant  in a persons mind than an itch they need to scratch or a score they want to make.

Because sex is a cornerstone of so many of our relations understanding what it means to different people is critical.









						The sex dilemma
					

Our intuition that sexual assault is a serious violation implicitly assumes that sex is profoundly significant. This is a view, however, that runs counter to the prevailing, recreational understanding. We can believe that sexual assault is a grievous wrong or we can believe that sex is a trivial...



					www.abc.net.au


----------



## basilio (18 March 2021)

basilio said:


> Interesting SP. The holes and challenges of the consent app just scream out. As Mick Fuller said just consider it (before ditching it..)
> 
> This analysis just makes a start of how challenging/dangerous such an app would be
> 
> ...




This view didn't think it was a good idea either..








						Sexual consent app proposal might be NSW top cop's 'worst idea all year'
					

An app for partners to register their consent before having sex has been proposed as a way to address the growing sexual assault problem in NSW, but critics say it is "naive" and could easily be manipulated.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## sptrawler (18 March 2021)

basilio said:


> This view didn't think it was a good idea either..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The main thing is people are thinking about it, which is the the main thing IMO, there has to be a way whereby the truth is obvious.
Not just a fleeting moment, that leads to buyers regret, or even worse jail or an unwanted child.
It is o.k people saying an app could be manipulated, but if it is secure and well thought out, there is no reason something couldn't be designed.
We have no trouble banking on an app, and people keep suggesting voting by an app, so bonking by an app shouldn't be too difficult. 😂
I mean really how good is the system we currently have?
lets think about it for a minute:
Each person downloads a government app to their phone, like we did with covid.
Then each person makes up their own pin number.
Person one opens app and uses pin to sends request to person two, person two has to use their pin to answer person one, if person one doesn't have the appropriate answer they are in manure. 
It also stops date rape drugs and drunk rape, if the person is muted, they can't send a message and the muppet doesn't have the victims pin.
Well that took me 30 seconds to think out while I was writing.


----------



## SirRumpole (18 March 2021)

sptrawler said:


> The main thing is people are thinking about it, which is the the main thing IMO, there has to be a way whereby the truth is obvious.
> Not just a fleeting moment, that leads to buyers regret, or even worse jail or an unwanted child.
> It is o.k people saying an app could be manipulated, but if it is secure and well thought out, there is no reason something couldn't be designed.
> We have no trouble banking on an app, and people keep suggesting voting by an app, so bonking by an app shouldn't be too difficult. 😂
> ...




I guess the problem becomes if the app is not used, does that imply consent was not given ?

Are people going to be sent to jail because they or the other party did not press a button ?

Moments of passion don't necessarily occur with a mobile device present and this could be yet another example of control of our lives by technology.

The Police Commissioner probably meant well, but it seems like a thought bubble that he hasn't worked through.


----------



## sptrawler (18 March 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> I guess the problem becomes if the app is not used, does that imply consent was not given ?
> 
> Are people going to be sent to jail because they or the other party did not press a button ?
> 
> ...



If the app isn't used I know I wouldn't be bonking, it is a bit like shagging when the other partner says don't worry I've taken precautions I never went for that either.
if a person out on the market can't control their passion, they really shouldn't be out on the market, that is how rape happens, not controlling the passion.


----------



## SirRumpole (18 March 2021)

sptrawler said:


> If the app isn't used I know I wouldn't be bonking, it is a bit like shagging when the other partner says don't worry I've taken precautions I never went for that either.
> if a person out on the market can't control their passion, they really shouldn't be out on the market, that is how rape happens, not controlling the passion.




Just think of the implications if this system is hacked.

There would be a record of who you bonked, where and when.

The blackmailers would have a field day.


----------



## basilio (18 March 2021)

Perhaps this  idea could help. 








						New Consent App Just Picture Of Peter Dutton: “You’ll Never Want To Have Sex Again”
					

"We immediately shelved plans to become intimate for the rest of our lives"




					www.theshovel.com.au


----------



## basilio (21 March 2021)

This is an analogy of consent.  Simple, elegant, relatable.


----------



## moXJO (21 March 2021)

basilio said:


> This is an analogy of consent.  Simple, elegant, relatable.




The problem is people lie. It's the lies that cause the problem.


----------



## The Triangle (21 March 2021)

moXJO said:


> The problem is people lie. It's the lies that cause the problem.



And some change their mind _after _they've had the tea (usually once the effects of pills, cocaine and/or alcohol leave their system and shame sets in)


----------



## basilio (21 March 2021)

Yep.  Just lies and women who change their mind. 
The Christian defense


----------



## Smurf1976 (22 March 2021)

Why the 'nice guy' penalty disadvantages all workers
					

Research suggests that men are distrusted and passed over at work when they exhibit qualities stereotypically assigned to women. Fixing this would benefit all of us.




					www.bbc.com
				




One issue of relevance is that men seeking to climb the ladder, either the corporate one or socially, usually do work out that brute force is more likely to succeed than a "nice guy" approach.

Much is said to the contrary in the world we live in but in practice that's reality. Nice guys will succeed only in the absence of an aggressor - if there's one of those around then a key part of their approach is simply pushing anyone else out of the way, that's how they progress, and society at all levels is pretty well set up to enable that.


----------



## SirRumpole (22 March 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> Why the 'nice guy' penalty disadvantages all workers
> 
> 
> Research suggests that men are distrusted and passed over at work when they exhibit qualities stereotypically assigned to women. Fixing this would benefit all of us.
> ...




Let's not kid ourselves that some women aren't b*tches when it comes to climbing the corporate (or government) ranks either.

They have other ways of furthering their careers than men but they are quite capable of bullying and more subtle ways of getting to the top.


----------



## basilio (22 March 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> Why the 'nice guy' penalty disadvantages all workers
> 
> 
> Research suggests that men are distrusted and passed over at work when they exhibit qualities stereotypically assigned to women. Fixing this would benefit all of us.
> ...




Excellent point. As Rumpy points out one could use the "nice person" descriptor because women can be  equally capable of aggression or bitchiness. 
But the overall issue of a society that allows and often revels in aggressive, loud mouthed leaders to thrive is spot on. And it's success encourages imitators. 
Psychopaths are very strong people.


----------



## basilio (22 March 2021)

So this is the 5th woman to come forward with allegations of sexual harassment against the alleged Brittany Higgins rapist.

Well worth reading the whole story.  It is far more than one isolated incident. In itself it would be impossible to make a police complaint. But as part of  the whole picture of a persons behaviour it isn't going to do this guy any favours.

It sounds like exactly the sort of behaviour a  horny, power hungry, self entitled young buck gets up to. Just  keep pushing and you will get it - one way or another.









						Man accused of raping Brittany Higgins allegedly ‘demanded’ sex from former housemate
					

An ex-housemate of the man allegedly responsible for raping Brittany Higgins claims he "barged" into her room and "demanded" to have sex. She is the fifth woman to raise allegations against the man.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## SirRumpole (22 March 2021)

basilio said:


> So this is the 5th woman to come forward with allegations of sexual harassment against the alleged Brittany Higgins rapist.
> 
> Well worth reading the whole story.  It is far more than one isolated incident. In itself it would be impossible to make a police complaint. But as part of  the whole picture of a persons behaviour it isn't going to do this guy any favours.
> 
> ...




I think this just shows the need to get these low lifes off the street asap.

Women need to know that however shamed they feel they need to report attacks as early as they can so that proper evidence can be taken increasing the chances of conviction.

It might save a lot of other women from being attacked.


----------



## basilio (22 March 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> I think this just shows the need to get these low lifes off the street asap.
> 
> Women need to know that however shamed they feel they need to report attacks as early as they can so that proper evidence can be taken increasing the chances of conviction.
> 
> It might save a lot of other women from being attacked.




I see your point -  but frankly this sort of behaviour is almost  only brought to light *after* the alleged offender is charged with a serious offense and this becomes known.

There is no way the other 4 women who had interactions with this guy could have gone to a police station and made a statement and expected something to happen. It just isn't realistic.

On a more sinister note there is also a risk that mischief makers can submit false reports at will.  Clearly this is always a risk.I have no doubt the ASF choir will start singing off that hymn sheet any moment now.  I'm still wondering if, in fact,  the 4 statements will be allowed as evidence in any forthcoming trial. What is their status in this situation ?  Hearsay ? Inadmissible ? Irrelevant ? 

Something else to consider.  The other allegations about the  behaviour of  the alleged rapist are coming out because the guy is essentially a  political foot soldier.   He has also gone into seclusion and officially he hasn't been named. He is no "Big Swinging   ...k" .  

The last thing a big public figure with a serious accusation made against  him is any capacity for other complainants to  also speak up and add context to the situation.  So having some serious political muscle and the "Rule of Law" behind you is exceptionally helpful. Nothing can be alleged because it hasn't been proven has it ?  So it's just a lie.


----------



## SirRumpole (22 March 2021)

basilio said:


> I see your point - but frankly this sort of behaviour is almost only brought to light *after* the alleged offender is charged with a serious offense and this becomes known.




As far as I know, this guy continued to offend after he allegedly raped Brittany Higgins.

If she had made a complaint earlier it may have stopped him before he did other damage.

NB. I'm not blaming B.H. in any way, she said she had pressure put on her not to complain which I can believe.

The culture around report serious offences like this has to change.


----------



## sptrawler (22 March 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> As far as I know, this guy continued to offend after he allegedly raped Brittany Higgins.
> 
> If she had made a complaint earlier it may have stopped him before he did other damage.
> 
> ...



As you and Bas have said, if the person has that character trait, there is every likelyhood they would have re offended and the weight of evidence should be enough to build a case and have the person locked away.
Once one person comes out, other people who have been assaulted usually come forward, when it is shown it isn't an isolated case.


----------



## sptrawler (22 March 2021)

basilio said:


> I see your point -  but frankly this sort of behaviour is almost  only brought to light *after* the alleged offender is charged with a serious offense and this becomes known.
> 
> There is no way the other 4 women who had interactions with this guy could have gone to a police station and made a statement and expected something to happen. It just isn't realistic.
> 
> ...



Bas if they have sworn a statement and are prepared to be questioned in court, then it is evidence.
I think a sworn statement to the police is actually admissible.
If someone goes to court saying I heard something down the pub, it isn't evidence, it can be added to a list of circumstantial evidence to form a conclusion.
Or if someone isn't prepared to be questioned about the facts, or wont swear to the facts, it becomes inadmissible.
Well that is what I always believed, I may well be wrong, but I don't think we have quite got to the stage where someone can say something and the accused gets thrown in jail.
Having said that, it would save a lot of money, if we just threw people in jail that the media accused of something, from what I have seen on ASF many would agree with it . 😂


----------



## sptrawler (22 March 2021)

basilio said:


> So this is the 5th woman to come forward with allegations of sexual harassment against the alleged Brittany Higgins rapist.
> 
> Well worth reading the whole story.  It is far more than one isolated incident. In itself it would be impossible to make a police complaint. But as part of  the whole picture of a persons behaviour it isn't going to do this guy any favours.
> 
> ...



And an article by the security guard on duty the night in question.








						Security guard who found Brittany Higgins on night of alleged rape speaks out
					

On March 23, 2019, Nikola Anderson's overnight shift as a security guard at Parliament House was like any other — until Brittany Higgins and her male colleague arrived in the early hours of the morning.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## moXJO (22 March 2021)

basilio said:


> Yep.  Just lies and women who change their mind.
> The Christian defense



um why did you instantly think of women when I mentioned lying?

A guy could lie that he gave consent.


----------



## basilio (25 March 2021)

Never rains until it pours in NSW. This has been in the hands of NSW police since September 2020.  Apparently the Leader of the NSW Nationals had no idea of the investigation.









						NSW MP Michael Johnsen resigns as parliamentary secretary as police investigate alleged rape of sex worker
					

The Nationals MP for the seat of Upper Hunter says he is devastated by the allegation and is ‘an innocent party’




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## basilio (25 March 2021)

The standing down of Michael Johnsen also threatens the NSW governments control of the House.
Have to say I am surprised that the Premier and Leader of the National Party had no idea this situation was in play. Was it too dangerous to let them know what was happening ?









						NSW Police will interview MP tomorrow over rape allegation
					

The Premier says she is "relieved" police are investigating allegations Nationals MP Michael Johnsen raped a woman in the Blue Mountains in 2019.




					www.abc.net.au
				




_...While Mr Johnsen has not resigned from the Nationals, he will not sit in party room meetings while the police investigation takes place, effectively plunging NSW's Coalition government, which had previously had a one-seat majority, into minority._


----------



## sptrawler (25 March 2021)

basilio said:


> The standing down of Michael Johnsen also threatens the NSW governments control of the House.
> Have to say I am surprised that the Premier and Leader of the National Party had no idea this situation was in play. Was it too dangerous to let them know what was happening ?
> 
> 
> ...



That is why they have ministerial staff to sort what the minister needs to know, obviously sometimes it leaves the minister in a world of pain. 😂


----------



## basilio (25 March 2021)

It says so much about our  political/legal systems.

The alleged rape of the sex worker by the NSW MP was reported to the NSW police in September 2020. The police finally decided to interview Michael Johnsen after it was raised in Parliament and the MP was forced to stand down. 
So WTF  happened in the last 6 months ??









						NSW Police will interview MP tomorrow over rape allegation
					

The Premier says she is "relieved" police are investigating allegations Nationals MP Michael Johnsen raped a woman in the Blue Mountains in 2019.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## sptrawler (30 March 2021)

basilio said:


> It says so much about our  political/legal systems.
> 
> The alleged rape of the sex worker by the NSW MP was reported to the NSW police in September 2020. The police finally decided to interview Michael Johnsen after it was raised in Parliament and the MP was forced to stand down.
> So WTF  happened in the last 6 months ??
> ...



Certainly an interesting one, I wonder when all the ex pollies wives and girlfriends will get together and show the ABC all their past SMS conversations. All getting very weird ATM IMO.
A very interesting read.








						MP exchanged lewd messages with sex worker during NSW Question Time
					

NSW politician Michael Johnsen offered a sex worker $1,000 to attend state Parliament for sex and sent the woman a string of lewd text messages and an obscene video while Parliament was sitting.




					www.abc.net.au
				



From the article:
_They arranged to meet on *September 15, 2019*, for a paid sexual encounter.

They agreed to meet at the remote Yellow Rock lookout in the Blue Mountains.

*It was here the woman alleges the assault took place*.

After their meeting at Yellow Rock lookout, Mr Johnsen invited the woman to his apartment in Potts Point and sent photos of the unit and the rooftop with harbour views.

She declined but agreed to meet him in the Blue Mountains on *September 23*, where she says she performed paid, consensual oral sex.

The next day, *September 24, 2019*, the woman texted him a topless photo of herself, to which he responded: "Hmmm … not fair. I'm sitting in the chamber with a hard on now! Xxx

The MP and the woman met one last time at Lennox Bridge on *Thursday, September 26*, where she says they had paid, consensual sexual intercourse.

She alleges he made only a partial payment for this third meeting and stopped responding to her text messages.

He put new ads for sex on the website but did not engage with her again_.

_The woman told the ABC she did not report the Yellow Rock incident to police at the time because she did not think they would take her seriously.

"I don't trust the police. What's the point when I was answering an ad from [the classifieds] — a prostitute complaining about having sex? I don't think it's going to be very high on their agenda," she said_.


----------



## basilio (31 March 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Certainly an interesting one, I wonder when all the ex pollies wives and girlfriends will get together and show the ABC all their past SMS conversations. All getting very weird ATM IMO.




Lets try a thought experiment here. There are thunderous denunciations of Michael Johnsen sending sex texts and dirty pics while he was in Parliament to a sex worker. He also tried to get her to come to Parliament for a bit  of nooky.
So are people responding to the behaviour itself or who was  the recipient ?

1) What if the MP was texting his wife /partner ?
2) What if the  MP was texting his staffer who maybe later became a partner ?
3) What if the recipient was the same sex ? 
4) What if the MP was the recipient from say a  friendly lobbyist who liked mixing business with pleasure  or any of the above ?

SP brings up an excellent point. There is evidence  most of the above scenarios  exist. The release of the extensive text threads is public proof that Michael Johnsen did  enthusiastically chase and catch sex workers.  The particular legal charge is that he refused to accept the limits she set for their sex at  Yellow Rock and then stiffed her for full  payment on Lennox Bridge tryst .

The exposure of his behavior is about his hypocrisy in proclaiming  family values/morality etc while actively chasing sex workers.


----------



## sptrawler (31 March 2021)

basilio said:


> Lets try a thought experiment here. There are thunderous denunciations of Michael Johnsen sending sex texts and dirty pics while he was in Parliament to a sex worker. He also tried to get her to come to Parliament for a bit  of nooky.
> So are people responding to the behaviour itself or who was  the recipient ?
> 
> 1) What if the MP was texting his wife /partner ?
> ...



It also shows the power of the media as a medium for entrapment, this case alone should be enough to show pollies that they do in fact live in a glass house and their behaviour is a matter of public interest.


----------



## basilio (31 March 2021)

sptrawler said:


> It also shows the power of the media as a medium for entrapment, this case alone should be enough to show pollies that they do in fact live in a glass house and their behaviour is a matter of public interest.




I suggest exposure is the better word.  Traditionally the media has not reported on the private lives of politicians. Everyone knows that life is complicated, messy whatever. ( However if a paper wanted to destroy someone for political reasons a juicy sex scandal is always value. )

What changes this however is when people are completely hypocritical ie strongly defending family values while chasing staff, sex workers and anyone who happens to be around. 

The other issue at the moment is questions of aggression and opportunism. These are  behind the allegations around Christian Porter and against Brittany Higgins.


----------



## sptrawler (31 March 2021)

basilio said:


> I suggest exposure is the better word.  Traditionally the media has not reported on the private lives of politicians. Everyone knows that life is complicated, messy whatever. ( However if a paper wanted to destroy someone for political reasons a juicy sex scandal is always value. )
> 
> What changes this however is when people are completely hypocritical ie strongly defending family values while chasing staff, sex workers and anyone who happens to be around.
> 
> The other issue at the moment is questions of aggression and opportunism. These are  behind the allegations around Christian Porter and against Brittany Higgins.



I have an extremely attractive daughter who worked a paralegal secretary in the city, she has told me that predatory men are very common  in the work place and especially at work do's. They are always looking for a hint of an opportunity, so obviously it is rampant in office culture and needs to be stamped out.
In industrial workplaces, where I worked my career, there were a few women worked in the offices and on the floor, but I was only aware of one incident in 40 years and the guy wasn't a full quid. He kept sending love letters to one of the office girls, he was sent for counselling and eventually sacked when his behaviour started to escalate.
Unfortunately people are people and unless there are hard and fast rules, boundaries are tested.
It should be just mandated in all workplaces physical or sexual assault at any level, results in suspension, pending dismissal.
It gets rid of grey areas.
The cases involving Higgins and Porter are different, as they actually break the criminal law code, therefore they have to be handled by the criminal system.


----------



## basilio (31 March 2021)

This is an excellent story on how a 30 year old attempted rape attack at Sydney University has been resolved.

Well worth a read.








						Shock message thirty years after attempted ‘gang rape’ at Sydney University
					

Last week, Katrine Tully shared her story with the Kidspot podcast, I Swear I Never, about being assaulted by other students 30 years ago at Sydney University.




					www.news.com.au


----------



## sptrawler (31 March 2021)

Probably need to start a new thread on "politicians and staff behaving badly", as these incidents are starting to mount up and cross borders.








						Labor MP's staffer charged with producing child exploitation material
					

Benjamin Waters — a staffer for South Australian Labor MP Nat Cook — faces court charged with producing and possessing child exploitation material after being arrested yesterday.




					www.abc.net.au
				



From the article:
_A South Australian Labor staffer has faced court charged with producing and possessing child exploitation material.
Benjamin Waters was arrested yesterday by the South Australia Joint Anti Child Exploitation Team (JACET) following an investigation by SA Police and the Australian Federal Police (AFP).

The 38-year-old has worked as a staffer for Labor Member for Hurtle Vale Nat Cook.

Mr Waters has been charged with one count of producing child abuse material through a carriage service and four counts of possessing child exploitation materia_l.


----------



## basilio (6 April 2021)

In the US Republician Congressman Matt Gaetz is facing serious problems with alleged relationships with young girls (amongst other issues)
Another Democratic Congresswoman resigned a couple of years ago when she faced a sex scandal. It turns out Matt was one of the very few politicians who publicly supported and befriended her.

This is an interesting perspective on politics across party lines.








						Matt Gaetz Defended Me When My Nudes Were Shared Without My Consent. Now He’s Accused of Doing Just That
					

Matt and I forged an unlikely friendship in Congress, and he was one of the few colleagues who spoke out after a malicious nude-photo leak upended my life. But if recent reports are true, he engaged in the very practice he defended me from—and should resign immediately.




					www.vanityfair.com


----------



## basilio (7 April 2021)

Now this surprises me.

The Federal Police are investigating the alleged rape of Brittany Higgins. However it seems that the  alleged perp is under no obligation to even be interviewed. Does that make sense 

_The police deputy commissioner, Neil Gaughan, revealed the details on Wednesday but would not say whether the alleged perpetrator had been interviewed.

“Natural justice has to be held here in relation to this particular issue,” Gaughan told ABC radio on Wednesday.

“Of course, this person that has allegedly undertaken any crime is not obliged to be actually subjected to an interview, they have the right to remain silent. It’s up to them, it’s a matter for them, that’s the way our democracy is and the way our laws have been crafted.”_









						Brittany Higgins: federal police reveal five officers investigating rape allegation
					

AFP deputy commissioner says they will be ‘methodical’ with evidence but did not confirm whether the alleged perpetrator had been interviewed




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## basilio (7 April 2021)

Answering my own query here. People can decline to be interviewed. In fact lawyers are at pains to say don't be interviewed.
The alleged perp is quite free to stay mum and see if there is sufficient evidence to actually charge him.  That will be interesting.

And as Peter Dutton so elegantly put it.  "It's back to He said, She said" (_Good luck with that _!)

Of course if he says nothing then......??


----------



## sptrawler (7 April 2021)

basilio said:


> Answering my own query here. People can decline to be interviewed. In fact lawyers are at pains to say don't be interviewed.
> The alleged perp is quite free to stay mum and see if there is sufficient evidence to actually charge him.  That will be interesting.
> 
> And as Peter Dutton so elegantly put it.  "It's back to He said, She said" (_Good luck with that _!)
> ...



You have the right to remain silent. If you *do say* anything, what you *say* can be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to consult with a lawyer and have that lawyer present during any questioning. If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be appointed for you if you so desire.


----------



## basilio (8 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> You have the right to remain silent. If you *do say* anything, what you *say* can be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to consult with a lawyer and have that lawyer present during any questioning. If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be appointed for you if you so desire.




Quite true SP. I was simply noting that it seems as if the perp can simply refuse to be interviewed at all.  Not even going through the processes of hearing the allegations and then offering a No Comment. I think there is a material difference between having to actually be interviewed even when you say nothing and  not having to directly hear what the allegations are.


----------



## sptrawler (8 April 2021)

basilio said:


> Quite true SP. I was simply noting that it seems as if the perp can simply refuse to be interviewed at all.  Not even going through the processes of hearing the allegations and then offering a No Comment. I think there is a material difference between having to actually be interviewed even when you say nothing and  not having to directly hear what the allegations are.



Probably best to say nothing until you are charged, then I think you have to answer questions. Whether you are guilty or innocent, I have never heard of a case where verbal diarrhea helped anyone.


----------



## cri123 (8 April 2021)

Those who are doing this all are celebs like a famous face in this world. Shame


----------



## basilio (14 April 2021)

The issue of drink spiking of women.  Almost always a precursor to an attempt to rape them while they are insensible.  
So what happens if a woman who realises her drink has been spiked goes to hospitals or the police to take action ?
Sweet Fanny Adams.









						When Prue tried to get a drug test after a suspected drink spiking, she was warned to 'think carefully' about the consequences
					

Prue McLardie-Hore was experiencing hallucinations and paranoia when her mother asked a hospital to drug test her. But she was cautioned against it, in a trend experts fear is undermining women's confidence to report drink spiking.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## SirRumpole (14 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Probably best to say nothing until you are charged, then I think you have to answer questions. Whether you are guilty or innocent, I have never heard of a case where verbal diarrhea helped anyone.




I'm not sure if you have to answer questions even if you have been charged.

You can make a statement, but I think the right to silence applies throughout the whole case , even in court.


----------



## Clansman (14 April 2021)

basilio said:


> The issue of drink spiking of women.  Almost always a precursor to an attempt to rape them while they are insensible.
> So what happens if a woman who realises her drink has been spiked goes to hospitals or the police to take action ?
> Sweet Fanny Adams.
> 
> ...




Drink spiking isn't as prevalent as some would like to believe. Purely anecdotal but knew a nurse who told me that the majority of women that are tested are normally found to have high levels of alcohol in their system, in essence just drunk.
In Ireland I believe they actually rarely found cases of women having their drinks spiked when tested, if at all.


----------



## basilio (15 April 2021)

Clansman said:


> Drink spiking isn't as prevalent as some would like to believe. Purely anecdotal but knew a nurse who told me that the majority of women that are tested are normally found to have high levels of alcohol in their system, in essence just drunk.
> In Ireland I believe they actually rarely found cases of women having their drinks spiked when tested, if at all.




It seems Clansman  that  bartenders in Victoria would strongly disagree with that view.  They recognise that there are a significant number of predators setting young women  up and that currently official authorities - police ect - are just not taking the issue seriously.

So they are taking action themselves.

One observation however does bear out part of what you said. One of the tricks drink spikers are doing is buying drinks with double/triple shots of vodka for their targets.









						Melbourne bartenders say drink spiking remains rife. Many are taking matters into their own hands
					

Melbourne bartenders say they know drink spiking is happening more frequently than it would seem. But, feeling left in the dark by authorities, they've started coming up with their own solutions.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## The Triangle (15 April 2021)

basilio said:


> It seems Clansman  that  bartenders in Victoria would strongly disagree with that view.  They recognise that there are a significant number of predators setting young women  up and that currently official authorities - police ect - are just not taking the issue seriously.
> 
> So they are taking action themselves.
> 
> ...



_'What's the most alcoholic spirit you have?'_ - who asks that?  really?  who?  

_Ms Dowling says there is a "collective acknowledgement" that police are not doing enough,_ Nothing in the article substantiates that statement - What are police supposed to do? My tax dollars should not go to pay for police to be stationed at every bar and check every drink. People need to report things to the police immediately - and as we see - seems things don't get reported to police until 2 years or 30 years has passed. Give your name, your phone number, what bar, and that's about it. Police don't have the resources to send a swat team and DNA test everyone who was at a bar of a suspected drink spiking and spend hours checking CCTV footage.

So what actions have these bartenders taken?  A private facebook group?  Water taps are health & cost related - I don't buy that anyone put in a tap specifically looking to reduce drink spiking.    And why are signs only put up in women's toilets?  Drink spiking happens to men as well.  Removing unattended drinks has been happening for as long as I can remember past about 8pm at most venues (other than a country pub).  Do any of the bars offer the drink testing kits?

Once again the ABC cherry picking one or two random people to tell a story which seems to have limited facts, limited research, and limited value.  The article was a mush of random quotes.   De-fund the ABC!


----------



## SirRumpole (15 April 2021)

The Triangle said:


> _'What's the most alcoholic spirit you have?'_ - who asks that?  really?  who?
> 
> _Ms Dowling says there is a "collective acknowledgement" that police are not doing enough,_ Nothing in the article substantiates that statement - What are police supposed to do? My tax dollars should not go to pay for police to be stationed at every bar and check every drink. People need to report things to the police immediately - and as we see - seems things don't get reported to police until 2 years or 30 years has passed. Give your name, your phone number, what bar, and that's about it. Police don't have the resources to send a swat team and DNA test everyone who was at a bar of a suspected drink spiking and spend hours checking CCTV footage.
> 
> ...




If it's a common problem, what can women do to protect themselves.

Not going out at all would solve the problem, but they shouldn't have to do that.

To me it's up to the venues to see that things are in order. Like taking drinks directly to the recipient instead of giving them to another person to deliver.

Or maybe the girls buying the drinks themselves and not letting the blokes do it.

Other than that I can't think of much else.


----------



## basilio (15 April 2021)

I posted an article from the ABC a couple of days ago which went the heart of police down SFA regarding spiked drinks.
And the prevalence of  what is happening ? From personal conversations with women and the observations of the bartenders in the article it is a problem.

Perhaps the bigger problem is people who just dismiss it out of hand. 









						When Prue tried to get a drug test after a suspected drink spiking, she was warned to 'think carefully' about the consequences
					

Prue McLardie-Hore was experiencing hallucinations and paranoia when her mother asked a hospital to drug test her. But she was cautioned against it, in a trend experts fear is undermining women's confidence to report drink spiking.




					www.abc.net.au
				












						'Our children are being put at risk': Parents warn about Chapel Street drink spiking
					

Several parents say their children have been the victims of drink spiking at a popular Melbourne nightclub strip, and Victoria Police's Chief Commissioner urges them to report incidents to police.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## The Triangle (15 April 2021)

basilio said:


> I posted an article from the ABC a couple of days ago which went the heart of police down SFA regarding spiked drinks.
> And the prevalence of  what is happening ? From personal conversations with women and the observations of the bartenders in the article it is a problem.
> 
> Perhaps the bigger problem is people who just dismiss it out of hand.
> ...



I said. You said.  

Ants are a problem, violence in Sydney is a problem, fires are a problem, covid is a problem, pollution is a problem, UV radiation is a problem, meth is a problem, poor quality ABC junk articles are a problem.  Lots of problems out there.  

The article(s) are awful.  Go canvas 100 bars over 2 weeks, keep track of the stats and answers.  Interview a few police officers, ask for their statistics, interview hospital administrators, paramedics, security guards.  You know - do some _actual research and journalism_ - then people might believe its a real problem that actually needs to be addressed.  

The personal views/alleged experiences of 3-4 random people across two articles is poor quality journalism and does not help the cause.  Its the same as when CNN or Fox interview one or two people to support a headline like 'Americans think XXX about XXX'  

But I suppose articles are free to read for a reason.  Usually have to pay for good content these days.


----------



## sptrawler (17 April 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> If it's a common problem, what can women do to protect themselves.
> 
> Not going out at all would solve the problem, but they shouldn't have to do that.
> 
> ...



Just a question, how hard are these so called date rape drugs to purchase?
I would have thought they are schedule 8 drugs, that are monitored, I may be wrong, but it does seem logical.
I mean going into a chemist a nd asking for a packet of condoms and half a dozen rohiponol tablets cant be normal.


----------



## SirRumpole (18 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Just a question, how hard are these so called date rape drugs to purchase?
> I would have thought they are schedule 8 drugs, that are monitored, I may be wrong, but it does seem logical.
> I mean going into a chemist a nd asking for a packet of condoms and half a dozen rohiponol tablets cant be normal.




I don't know. Maybe you can get some on the "dark net" or your local bikie drug store.


----------



## basilio (18 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Just a question, how hard are these so called date rape drugs to purchase?
> I would have thought they are schedule 8 drugs, that are monitored, I may be wrong, but it does seem logical.
> I mean going into a chemist a nd asking for a packet of condoms and half a dozen rohiponol tablets cant be normal.




I think that if you want to get any of these drugs it would be as easy as the "normal" range of illegal drugs. Probably start with any mates who also like to drug and rape women. 
The net is dangerous like that.


----------



## basilio (18 April 2021)

Exceptionally powerful/troubling story on ABC website about the grooming and rape of 13 year old boy.  The assailant had access to a DHHS data base (which he had no right to) .  The most disturbing facts IMV were that when the rape case finally went to court a plea deal by the prosecution left out quite critical elements of the case. Well worth reading to the end.

A very detailed piece of investigative journalism.









						Did Zack’s new friend know more than he should have?
					

When Zack met Alex Jones he saw him as a fellow car nut. The truth was something far more sinister.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## Clansman (22 April 2021)

basilio said:


> I posted an article from the ABC a couple of days ago which went the heart of police down SFA regarding spiked drinks.
> And the prevalence of  what is happening ? From personal conversations with women and the observations of the bartenders in the article it is a problem.
> 
> Perhaps the bigger problem is people who just dismiss it out of hand.
> ...




Personal conversations aren't tests. The bartenders in the article.  So no concrete data from the esteemed bartender community?


----------



## sptrawler (22 April 2021)

Clansman said:


> Personal conversations aren't tests. The bartenders in the article.  So no concrete data from the esteemed bartender community?



I agree, as I said earlier I would have thought "date rape" drugs are monitored closely and are a prescription drug.
So any doctor that was regularly prescribing them and or someone asking for them, on a regular basis would be ringing alarm bells.
The drugs in question are obviously extremely strong sedatives, so I would expect them to be on the monitored drugs list.
Only my thoughts, I may be wrong, but it makes sense to me.


----------



## Clansman (22 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I agree, as I said earlier I would have thought "date rape" drugs are monitored closely and are a prescription drug.
> So any doctor that was regularly prescribing them and or someone asking for them, on a regular basis would be ringing alarm bells.
> The drugs in question are obviously extremely strong sedatives, so I would expect them to be on the monitored drugs list.
> Only my thoughts, I may be wrong, but it makes sense to me.




The article is actually very poorly written ( by a cadet ). The part that had me in stitches was the reference "bartender of more than 7 years" and university student.  As though 7 years somehow legitimized experience and university student to denote whatever that is supposed to denote about whatever it takes more than 7 years at Uni to accomplish. Both completely irrelevant to the article which was just click bait from the start.


----------



## basilio (26 April 2021)

Big story in The Age of a young girl who  was "wooed"  on Snap Chat over 5 days and ended up being raped in a train station toilet.
But there won'
But there won.t  be any charges because of insufficient evidence.. Snap Chat is great like that..
Very clever , very effective, very dangerous. 

_Grace says she was told by forensic staff who performed the rape kit examination on Jamie at the Monash Children’s Hospital that “the prevalence and regularity which they’re doing rape kits [after such incidents] is startling, growing in number, and is scary”._









						How Jamie went ‘from Snapchat hello to rape in five days’
					

A mother is demanding changes to Victoria’s consent laws after her 17-year-old daughter was allegedly raped several times by a stranger she got to know just five days earlier on Snapchat.




					www.theage.com.au


----------



## sptrawler (26 April 2021)

basilio said:


> Big story in The Age of a young girl who  was "wooed"  on Snap Chat over 5 days and ended up being raped in a train station toilet.
> But there won'
> But there won.t  be any charges because of insufficient evidence.. Snap Chat is great like that..
> Very clever , very effective, very dangerous.
> ...



_Yes, one wonders how you enact laws to stop this, from your article:
For *17*-year-old schoolgirl Jamie, Melbourne’s long second lockdown took a toll — she was cut off from friends, having recently started at a new school.
At one point Grace walked past her daughter’s bedroom and noticed she had put lipstick on, “I was like, I’m just going to leave this, I’m not sure I want to know. I’m just going to walk away – perhaps I shouldn’t have.”

Jamie says the boy began to pester her for nude photos, which she declined. “He just kept asking and asking, he wore me down; he wasn’t going away no matter how many times I said ‘no’,” she said.

She relented and sent him suggestive (but not nude) photographs and, also after incessant requests, told him where she lived.

“He was like, you would do this if you loved me, you would meet me if you loved me. I was like, stupid me thinking someone is paying attention to me, someone actually likes me.”

When the youth arrived at an eastern suburbs platform, Jamie realised he was much older than she had been led to believe. Within five minutes, he guided Jamie into a toilet cubicle, stood between Jamie and the door and allegedly raped her multiple times as she remained “terrified” and frozen_.

As a parent of two girls, I would feel I had failed.
Unless the pendulum swings back the other way, these instances are going to increase, because the new World is kids now know best and should be allowed to explore without parental interference. The internet facilitates that.
Just another example, of the way the world is gathering speed, down the S bend IMO.
She wasn't wooed, she didn't ask her parents or anybody else for their input, she used her own initiative.
What do you suggest should be done @basilio
Just my opinion, but while we empower children and destroy respect for establishment and social structures, this sort of behaviour will flourish.
It will take a long, long time for a new set of moral decency standards to be moulded, when the old established ones are being torn down.
The interesting part will be, if the new norm when it is established, is better than the old norm.


----------



## basilio (26 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> _Yes, one wonders how you enact laws to stop this, from your article:
> For *17*-year-old schoolgirl Jamie, Melbourne’s long second lockdown took a toll — she was cut off from friends, having recently started at a new school.
> At one point Grace walked past her daughter’s bedroom and noticed she had put lipstick on, “I was like, I’m just going to leave this, I’m not sure I want to know. I’m just going to walk away – perhaps I shouldn’t have.”
> 
> ...




The article does discuss this. The devastating facts are that there are people who have worked out how to use Snap Chat (no retained evidence)  and clever, ruthless psychology to rape girls at will.

This instance is coming to light now because the mother decided to stand up and fight. The police decided  that in the  circumstances there was no way they could make a charge stick.  That reality is what has driven the perp and his friends to use this modus operandi relentlessly.  Basically no risk sex. That is why I quoted the observation from the forensic staff at Monash Childrens hospital.

This is an extreme example of what  has happened.


----------



## sptrawler (26 April 2021)

basilio said:


> The article does discuss this. The devastating facts are that there are people who have worked out how to use Snap Chat (no retained evidence)  and clever, ruthless psychology to rape girls at will.
> 
> This instance is coming to light now because the mother decided to stand up and fight. The police decided  that in the  circumstances there was no way they could make a charge stick.  That reality is what has driven the perp and his friends to use this modus operandi relentlessly.  Basically no risk sex. That is why I quoted the observation from the forensic staff at Monash Childrens hospital.
> 
> This is an extreme example of what  has happened.




It isn't going to get better, it is going to get worse, the media portray the perpetrator as the victim and the victim just a statistic. 
This is used for the ammunition for change, what that change is seems to be the fluid point, that I'm not sure the media has yet to determine.
ATM to me it just appears that the articles are written to invoke emotion, to what end seems to be missing, do they want the girls to stop looking sexy? do they want the girls to not respond to advances? do they want guys with criminal intent to not try and groom girls? do they want guys to not want to have sex unless the girl says " I want to have sex"?
I know I would never have had sex with my wife, if i had waited for her to ask me. 😂
So we go back to punishment, maybe as we relax social standards, we need to increase punishments, for breaches of those relaxed standards?
At the moment it just appears that any person, has a right to claim abuse with no responsibility for their own actions, i know there are areas of Perth i wouldn't walk around on my own at night because they are dangerous.
I'm not scared, just not prepared to put myself in that situation, because i apply common sense.
Same as if I went to NY, I'm not going there to cause trouble, but I would ask at the hotel reception desk if there is anything or any areas I need to avoid or be careful of.
But if i just said sod it "I should be able to go where I want I'm an Aussie I'm not looking for trouble", and walk down the Bronx get raped and bashed, is it my fault or the fault of the NY police for not being there for me?


----------



## basilio (23 May 2021)

What it takes to be believed in  family sexual abuse caes.









						Behind the doors of their beachside mansion, Alysha's father was hiding a dark secret
					

Alysha came from a seemingly perfect family, and for years she stayed silent about the shocking truth. This is her story of courage, survival and beating the odds.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## basilio (21 July 2021)

So the Norwegian beach  handball team has been collectively fined for wearing improper uniform. 

Norway's beach handball team fined for not wearing bikini bottoms during European Championships match​Posted 51m ago51 minutes ago





 The Norwegian players were fined for wearing "improper clothing".(
Supplied: Norwegian Beach Handball Federation
)
Norway's beach handball team has been fined 1,500 euros ($2,407) for being improperly dressed after the women wore bike shorts instead of bikini bottoms at a European championship match in Bulgaria.

Beach Handball's rules stipulate that female players must wear tops and bikini bottoms. *Men wear tank tops and shorts.*

"Athletes' uniforms and accessories contribute to helping athletes increase their performance as well as remain coherent with the sportive and attractive image of the sport," the uniform regulations add.

*"Female athletes must wear bikini bottoms … with a close fit and cut on an upward angle toward the top of the leg."








						Norway's beach handball team fined for breaching uniform requirements by not wearing bikini bottoms
					

The European Handball Federation says its disciplinary commission has dealt with "a case of improper clothing" after the Norway team elected to wear bike shorts instead of bikini bottoms.




					www.abc.net.au
				



*


----------



## basilio (21 July 2021)

A lot more detail on the above story here.









						Women fined $2409 for not wearing bikinis
					

Norway’s women’s beach handball team has been fined for wearing shorts instead of bikini bottoms during a weekend game in a decision that been described as “ridiculous”.




					www.news.com.au


----------



## SirRumpole (22 July 2021)

basilio said:


> A lot more detail on the above story here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think we need a photo of them in bikini bottoms so we can make a proper judgement.


----------



## basilio (22 July 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> I think we need a photo of them in bikini bottoms so we can make a proper judgement.



Exactly.  And if you had checked out the News com story you would have seen it all.


----------



## wayneL (4 August 2021)

It seems Democrat NY governor Cuomo is in a spot of bother, yet none of the media circus conservatives endure.

Strange that.


----------



## IFocus (4 August 2021)

wayneL said:


> It seems Democrat NY governor Cuomo is in a spot of bother, yet none of the media circus conservatives endure.
> 
> Strange that.





Its across all the major networks and Biden has called for his resignation... you know just like the Republicans did with Trump!


----------



## wayneL (4 August 2021)

IFocus said:


> Its across all the major networks and Biden has called for his resignation... you know just like the Republicans did with Trump!



Cuomo is actually guilty though.


----------



## The Triangle (5 August 2021)

wayneL said:


> Cuomo is actually guilty though.



Let the people decide.  If they want they can vote him out (as they did with Trump) or the NY government can try to remove him via impeachment (which will likely fail).  Media and twitter/political pressure to resign is not democratic.

Clinton set the modern standard for men with regards to sexual misconduct being accepted in government.   I don't agree with the poor morals of our politicians, but seems most of the population don't really care.


----------



## SirRumpole (5 August 2021)

The Triangle said:


> I don't agree with the poor morals of our politicians, but seems most of the population don't really care.




Speaking personally I do care if women are miss(!)treated and unwanted harassment should not be tolerated.

The thing I'm worried about is that a lot of women may jump on the me-too bandwagon for relatively minor infringements (or even none at all) and the resulting implication that all men are bastards and all women are angels. That's obviously not the case and I think we are getting a lopsided view of what's going on in Parliament and the wider society.


----------



## wayneL (5 August 2021)

The Triangle said:


> Let the people decide.  If they want they can vote him out (as they did with Trump) or the NY government can try to remove him via impeachment (which will likely fail).  Media and twitter/political pressure to resign is not democratic.
> 
> Clinton set the modern standard for men with regards to sexual misconduct being accepted in government.   I don't agree with the poor morals of our politicians, but seems most of the population don't really care.



My observation is that it is the media who really decides. It will be really interesting to see how quickly, or not as the case may be, this all blows over in the media.

... As opposed to the extended sh¹tstorm conservative politicians go through over what has often been baseless accusations.

The people basically care as much as the media tells them to.


----------



## IFocus (5 August 2021)

wayneL said:


> Cuomo is actually guilty though.





Hmm Trump outed himself groping females genitalia, no one on the conservative side blinked.

I expect Cuomo is gone local Dems have said as much.


----------



## wayneL (5 August 2021)

IFocus said:


> Hmm Trump outed himself groping females genitalia, no one on the conservative side blinked.
> 
> I expect Cuomo is gone local Dems have said as much.



Points of order:

1) Braggadocio is no evidence of the actual behaviour. I may brag about having a menage a trois with Elle and Naomi, but that is unlikely to be true.

2) if the recipient of such p**** grabbing is consensual, it is not actually harassment now is it?


----------



## sptrawler (5 August 2021)

wayneL said:


> Points of order:
> 
> 1) Braggadocio is no evidence of the actual behaviour. I may brag about having a menage a trois with Elle and Naomi, but that is unlikely to be true.
> 
> 2) if the recipient of such p**** grabbing is consensual, it is not actually harassment now is it?



Actually depends on media, if the media feel it is newsworthy, it may well be the end of you.
If you are of no importance to the media, well best of luck with your endeavours.lol
Imo right or wrong, runs a distant second to impact and circulation results.
Just my opinion.


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## wayneL (5 August 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Actually depends on media, if the media feel it is newsworthy, it may well be the end of you.
> If you are of no importance to the media, well best of luck with your endeavours.lol



Which is my point.

80% of folks are instructed on what they should think, 20% actually think.


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## sptrawler (5 August 2021)

wayneL said:


> Which is my point.
> 
> 80% of folks are instructed on what they should think, 20% actually think.



That's true, today I was reading that the stolen generation are to be compensated, well I actually said Rudd should have done that as part of the GFC rescue package, after he appologised, if we want to trawl back through posts. I actually said if the Govt had given $10billion to the indigenous, as a compensation payment, it would have been recirculated into the economy and helped the needy.
But getting to today, another thing that was said was we need to reduce the amount of indigenous who are put in jail, well a lot are put in jail for car theft, couldnt we just give them a car.


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## IFocus (6 August 2021)

wayneL said:


> Points of order:
> 
> 1) Braggadocio is no evidence of the actual behaviour. I may brag about having a menage a trois with Elle and Naomi, but that is unlikely to be true.
> 
> 2) if the recipient of such p**** grabbing is consensual, it is not actually harassment now is it?




Point of order dismissed, Geesus  Trump was always a dog front and centre don't get why you defend him.

Donald Trump sexual misconduct allegations​Donald Trump, the former president of the United States, has been accused of rape, sexual assault, and sexual harassment, including non-consensual kissing or groping, by at least 25 women since the 1970s









						Donald Trump sexual misconduct allegations - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## wayneL (6 August 2021)

Oh yes, the repeating of unsubstantiated claims makes it true. 

Sieg Heil, Herr Goebbels.


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## IFocus (6 August 2021)

wayneL said:


> Oh yes, the repeating of unsubstantiated claims makes it true.
> 
> Sieg Heil, Herr Goebbels.




Not at all, then there are the pr0n stars...

Still don't get why you defend Trump?

As for the Nazi insinuation I do agree as State and Federal Republicans are presently working their way towards undermining  the democratic process in the US, lines been crossed like never before, but you keep cheering?


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## basilio (7 August 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> I think we need a photo of them in bikini bottoms so we can make a proper judgement.





How about a side by side comparison with the mens  beach volley ball uniform. ?















						Pic Shows Difference Between Men's, Women's Beach Handball Uniforms?
					

Norway's women's beach handball team was fined in July 2021 for protesting against the sport's "bikini bottoms" requirement.




					www.snopes.com


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## sptrawler (7 August 2021)

basilio said:


> How about a side by side comparison with the mens  beach volley ball uniform. ?
> 
> View attachment 128696
> 
> ...



Apparently the men are up in arms, that the guys have to wear such draconian workwear, when close fitting streamlined budgie smugglers would obviously be an advantage in beach volley ball.  
Why is it that the women get a scientific streamlined advantage in their clothing, it wasn't allowed in the swimming and also in the cycling, why should the men have to wear such obviously cumbersome non streamlined attire.🤣


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## sptrawler (17 August 2021)

Bob Dylan hits the headlines at 80 years old.








						Bob Dylan denies alleged sexual abuse of 12-year-old child in 1960s
					

An unnamed woman sues folk singer-songwriter Bob Dylan, alleging he sexually abused her after giving her drugs and alcohol in 1965 when she was 12 years old.




					www.abc.net.au
				



From the article:
An unnamed woman has sued folk singer-songwriter Bob Dylan, alleging he sexually abused her after giving her drugs and alcohol in 1965 when she was 12 years old.

A spokesman for Dylan, now 80, said the allegations were false.
"The 56-year-old claim is untrue and will be vigorously defended," the spokesman said


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## sptrawler (21 August 2021)

Looks like the FIFO guys aren't as squeaky clean as as they think they are, maybe @Humid can get them into rehab. 🤣
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08...over-inappropriate-sexual-behaviour/100395186


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## basilio (15 October 2021)

Promising new medical advances in dealing with widespread sexual  harrassment and sexism.


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## SirRumpole (16 October 2021)

I'd like to see a bit more publicity for all the good blokes out there (I'm sure there are some), instead of the constant feminist attacks on men in general.

Sure some of us are @ssholes and they should be put away or otherwise dealt with but lets give some credit when blokes actually do the right thing , and hold them up as role models to others.


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## basilio (16 October 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> I'd like to see a bit more publicity for all the good blokes out there (I'm sure there are some), instead of the constant feminist attacks on men in general.
> 
> Sure some of us are @ssholes and they should be put away or otherwise dealt with but lets give some credit when blokes actually do the right thing , and hold them up as role models to others.




It is tough, very tough to feel labelled unfairly. If you watched that piece of satire to the end you will have seen Sammy J being double jabbed and having a loud scream because his female lab partner decided he needed to be vaxxed.  "But I'm one of the good guys !" he yells.  So take it as you wish but this is a double edged sword.

And by no means would I hold up women as the font of all virtue.


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## SirRumpole (16 October 2021)

basilio said:


> It is tough, very tough to feel labelled unfairly. If you watched that piece of satire to the end you will have seen Sammy J being double jabbed and having a loud scream because his female lab partner decided he needed to be vaxxed.  "But I'm one of the good guys !" he yells.  So take it as you wish but this is a double edged sword.
> 
> And by no means would I hold up women as the font of all virtue.




Satire it may be bas, just wait a year or so.


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## sptrawler (16 October 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> I'd like to see a bit more publicity for all the good blokes out there (I'm sure there are some), instead of the constant feminist attacks on men in general.
> 
> Sure some of us are @ssholes and they should be put away or otherwise dealt with but lets give some credit when blokes actually do the right thing , and hold them up as role models to others.



Just another way of undermining Australian's optimism, best way to bring about change, is promote and pedal discontent.


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## wayneL (16 October 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> I'd like to see a bit more publicity for all the good blokes out there (I'm sure there are some), instead of the constant feminist attacks on men in general.
> 
> Sure some of us are @ssholes and they should be put away or otherwise dealt with but lets give some credit when blokes actually do the right thing , and hold them up as role models to others.



Granted I don't live anywhere near where the wokists live, but in my corner of the sandpile, 99% of woman like masculine blokes. That excludes @ssholes, but the girls are smart enough to differentiate.

It happens, but just not in the mainstream narrative. Check out the likes of Gemma Tognini and Caro Di Russo, both of whom write on this topic occasionally.


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## SirRumpole (16 October 2021)

wayneL said:


> but the girls are smart enough to differentiate.




I'm not sure some are.

Why do we see so many assaulted or murdered by their current or former partners ?


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## macca (16 October 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> I'm not sure some are.
> 
> Why do we see so many assaulted or murdered by their current or former partners ?




My wife has a friend like that, she is a "fixer." 

She seems to end up with blokes with problems and she is going to save them, so far it always ends up with her needing fixing by a Doctor.

"Treat them mean and keep them keen" does work on a lot of women so a lot of blokes have very little respect for women as "people"

They see them as a possession and don't give stuff whether they go or stay.

Then you get blokes who own the woman and even if the man may remarry the ex wife is not allowed to.

We had a neighbour like that, the ex husband used to stalk her even though he had remarried


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## wayneL (16 October 2021)

I read







SirRumpole said:


> I'm not sure some are.
> 
> Why do we see so many assaulted or murdered by their current or former partners ?



I read an interesting study on that... I probably couldn't do it justice here, but all about very early family life and what is subconsciously thought to be normal.

Sad stuff.


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## SirRumpole (16 October 2021)

macca said:


> She seems to end up with blokes with problems and she is going to save them, so far it always ends up with her needing fixing by a Doctor.




Yes, that's the sad thing that some women don't seem to realise. Once some men establish a power relationship over a woman, nothing will change them.

 Women need to be aware of dangerous relationships and walk away while they still can.


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## sptrawler (18 October 2021)

This is another sad fact, it is amazing how many totally immoral and despicable people, hide behind a facade of being a caring and concerned individual.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...8-p590wb.html?js-chunk-not-found-refresh=true
From the article:
A man who repeatedly raped his wife and whose years of brutal, cruel and degrading abuse left a judge struggling to find the words to describe his conduct has been jailed for 15 years.

Jon Seccull, a former White Ribbon ambassador and charity fundraiser and the son of a retired policeman, must spend 10½ years in prison before he is eligible for parole for sexual violence against his wife between 2011 and 2015.
County Court judge Frank Gucciardo said on Monday that it was difficult to comprehend the sadistic nature of Seccull’s violence against his then wife, Michelle Skewes, and the humiliating and demeaning acts that inflicted “indignity of the highest order”.
“The offending leaves the court bereft of adequate words to describe its moral depravity,” Judge Gucciardo said as Seccull watched the online hearing from prison.

“Even after many years of criminal law, such abhorrent conduct is breathtaking.”
Before Seccull’s crimes became public he was renowned for his charity work in Ballarat in raising awareness for organ donation after one of the couple’s four children died when hit by a train. The couple separated in 2016, the same year Seccull was charged.

During their marriage, Seccull coerced Ms Skewes into sexual interactions with other men, and meted out violence as “punishment” when he didn’t get what he wanted, all with vile insults. The court heard he at times abused her until she vomited and he had threatened to release a video of her with another man.


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## basilio (22 October 2021)

sptrawler said:


> This is another sad fact, it is amazing how many totally immoral and despicable people, hide behind a facade of being a caring and concerned individual.
> 
> https://www.theage.com.au/national/...8-p590wb.html?js-chunk-not-found-refresh=true
> From the article:
> ...



That was a truly horrifying story.  Left the Judge almost without words.  

One point to make clearly that was in one of the articles I read about the case. It was the courage of the wife to make the charge and then allow her name and his name to be publicised.  She made it clear that while her case was abhorrent she  also wanted to encourage any similar victims to step forward and not be shamed  into silence. I hope she doesn't cope the sort of disrespect and disbelief that is sometimes levelled in this situation.


----------



## sptrawler (22 October 2021)

basilio said:


> That was a truly horrifying story.  Left the Judge almost without words.
> 
> One point to make clearly that was in one of the articles I read about the case. It was the courage of the wife to make the charge and then allow her name and his name to be publicised.  She made it clear that while her case was abhorrent she  also wanted to encourage any similar victims to step forward and not be shamed  into silence. I hope she doesn't cope the sort of disrespect and disbelief that is sometimes levelled in this situation.



The good thing is, these days people are a lot more confident coming forward, 50 years ago there was absolutely no where for women to turn.
They were in most cases, completely dependent on their husbands and many husbands took advantage of that situation.


----------



## noirua (25 October 2022)




----------



## noirua (25 October 2022)

basilio said:


> After 30 years of " no one saying, no one asking" the worst kept secret of Hollywood final blew up. Harvey Weinsten was accused of being a serial sexual harrasser of women and finally the message was heard.
> 
> The fallout has been dramatic for Harvey and his company. He is now a pariah. His wife has left him. He faces multiple legal charges and hundreds perhaps thousands of women are telling or repeating their stories of his sexual aggression.
> 
> ...


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## wayneL (25 October 2022)

noirua said:


>




And in one fell swoop, destroyed the proper meaning of the word for a whole generation.


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## basilio (13 December 2022)

Another one for the books.
This  creature drugged, raped and filmed (at least) 13 women .  It eventually came to light when one women summoned the courage to report the rape.
Took six weeks to find him guilty
He still denies everything.
Perhaps he is a Sovereign Citizen who doesn't believe he is bound by the law ?

Former WA Police officer Adrian Trevor Moore jailed for 30 years for drugging, abusing women​By Joanna Menagh
Posted 5h ago5 hours ago, updated 4h ago4 hours ago





 Adrian Moore (right) committed his crimes over 12 years and was a police officer for 11 of them.(ABC News: Joanna Menagh)
Share this article

A "misogynistic", "depraved" and "sadistic" former police officer has received a record 30-year jail term in Western Australia for drugging, sexually assaulting and recording 13 women over more than a decade.
Key points:​
Adrian Trevor Moore kept recordings and photos of him assaulting women
He had abject disregard for his victims as human beings, the judge said
Moore's barrister told reporters he had been instructed to lodge an appeal









						'Depraved' former WA Police officer receives 30-year jail term for drugging and sexually assaulting 13 women
					

Described by the judge as "sadistic", Adrian Trevor Moore met his victims through dating websites and is believed to have stupefied them by spiking their drinks before repeatedly sexually assaulting them when they were incapable of consenting.




					www.abc.net.au
				











						Jury hears disturbing claims in trial of former police officer accused of drugging, raping women
					

A jury is told a former WA police officer accused of sexually assaulting more than a dozen women had a "preference for BDSM" as his trial gets underway. WARNING: This story contains graphic content that some readers may find disturbing.




					www.abc.net.au


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## basilio (20 December 2022)

We probably didn't see this story in the media.  The judge passed away in 2020.  I suspect that this case would not have seen the light of day 15 years ago.  Interestingly enough the Judge was surprised and amazed that the women were upset with his attention.

Women who were sexually harassed by former Victorian judge receive settlement​Lawyer Josh Bornstein confirms two women’s cases resolved after review found they experienced harassment and discrimination

Follow our Australia news live blog for the latest updates
Get our morning and afternoon news emails, free app or daily news podcast





Maurice Blackburn principal lawyer Josh Bornstein said the conduct of judge Peter Vickery had a profound impact on the two women. Photograph: Damien Meyer/AFP/Getty Images

Nino Bucci
Tue 20 Dec 2022 14.33 AEDTLast modified on Tue 20 Dec 2022 14.34 AEDT


Two women who were sexually harassed by a former Victorian supreme court judge while serving as associates have received a legal settlement, their lawyer has confirmed.
The women made the claims against judge Peter Vickery in 2020, leading to an independent investigation by the supreme court, which upheld the allegations. Vickery, who denied the claims, died earlier this year.

The women’s lawyer, Maurice Blackburn principal Josh Bornstein, said the conduct of the judge had a profound impact on both women, who were starting their legal careers at the time of the harassment. One of them no longer works as a lawyer.
“In addition to deploying sexualised poetry and unwelcome sexual advances, Mr Vickery also put his hand between the thighs of one of the women and on another occasion kissed her on the lips,” Bornstein said.
“It was a gross abuse of power by one of our state’s most senior judges against two young women who were just starting out on their legal careers.
“The women are to be commended for their courage and tenacity in pursuing this matter against powerful individuals and institutions.”









						Women who were sexually harassed by former Victorian judge receive settlement
					

Lawyer Josh Bornstein confirms two women’s cases resolved after review found they experienced harassment and discrimination




					www.theguardian.com
				











						Former Victorian Supreme Court judge Peter Vickery names himself as subject of sexual harassment investigation
					

The Chief Justice of the Victorian Supreme Court has described the behaviour of the former judge towards two female associates as "reprehensible".




					www.abc.net.au
				




_Mr Vickery released a statement on his website in which he apologised to the victims "for any distress unknowingly caused".

"I never for a second believed that anything I did may have hurt two of them," he wrote.

"I accept that I should have been more alert to this possibility. Had I possessed sufficient awareness, without hesitation I would have altered my behaviour._


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## basilio (4 January 2023)

A number of threads to this story.

A young woman has been found guilty of  fabricating rape charges against a number of men in Barrow UK.
It is a horrific story with many peoples lives destroyed. 

Eleanor Williams: The grooming gang lies that sparked outrage​

Published


5 hours ago







Image caption,
Eleanor Williams was found guilty of perverting the course of justice
By Phil McCann
BBC News

*Eleanor Williams said she was the victim of a grooming gang and had been raped multiple times, sparking outrage and protests in her home town. But as she is convicted of multiple counts of perverting the course of justice for inventing the whole story, the BBC looks at the impact her lies had.*

The horrific story Eleanor Williams told on social media quickly went viral.

The then 19-year-old claimed she had been passed around for sex "for years" across the North of England by an Asian gang who drugged her, beat her, blackmailed her and threatened her with weapons.

It captivated her home town of Barrow, Cumbria, heaped pressure on the police, led to abuse for local journalists and excited the far right.
Now, a jury has decided her tales of being trafficked abroad and the photos of her injuries were all lies.
The bruises that hundreds of thousands saw in her Facebook photos were real, but they were caused by Williams' own hand after she attacked herself with a hammer.

Months before she posted her lies, she had been relating an even more elaborate story to the police, claiming a string of innocent men were rapists, sex traffickers and armed murderers.









						Eleanor Williams: The grooming gang lies that sparked outrage
					

Eleanor Williams said she was the victim of a grooming gang and many in her home town believed her.



					www.bbc.com


----------



## basilio (4 January 2023)

This is just one of the stories of youths/men whose lives were destroyed by Eleanor Williams.
One of the disturbing elements is it seemed to take the police a long time to establish he simply couldn't have raped Ms Williams..

I went downhill’: man falsely accused of rape on becoming a hate figure​




Jordan Trengove at home in Ulverston, Cumbria, as he awaited the verdict on the trial of Eleanor Williams. Photograph: Christopher Thomond/The Guardian
Jordan Trengove faced trial after being accused by Eleanor Williams after a night out in 2019

Woman who lied about grooming gang guilty of perverting course of justice





Helen Pidd North of England editor
Wed 4 Jan 2023 06.36 AEDTLast modified on Wed 4 Jan 2023 07.20 AED


When 18-year-old Jordan Trengove agreed to go on a night out with Eleanor Williams in 2019 he had no idea that accepting her invitation would not just land him in jail but make him the enemy of a global anti-grooming movement with its own line of merchandise.

The teenagers and some friends went drinking in Barrow on 9 March 2019 and as far as Trengove can remember, Williams disappeared halfway through the night. He didn’t pay much attention because he was distracted by another girl, Ebony, that evening.

Ebony ended up with him in the back of a police van after officers spotted him arguing at a taxi rank in the early hours. “They said: you’re drunk, let’s take you home,” remembers Trengove. The duo were dropped off at a friend’s house and ended up having sex on the sofa, according to Ebony when she was called to give evidence at Williams’s trial more than three years later.








						‘I went downhill’: man falsely accused of rape on becoming a hate figure
					

Jordan Trengove faced trial after being accused by Eleanor Williams after a night out in 2019




					www.theguardian.com


----------

