# VAS - Vanguard Australian Shares Index ETF



## donteventryit (8 May 2009)

Doesn't seem to be a thread for this, so here goes. 

Please see link to Vanguard page outlining details of the new offering - PDS, fact sheets, announcements etc. 

http://www.vanguard.com.au/personal_investors/investment/etfs/etfs_home.cfm

Marginally cheaper than STW at 0.27% versus 0.286% (plus some buy/sell spreads). 

As far as I am aware, not on any margin lenders approved lists as yet - however this won't take long. 

The ETF aims to replicate the total return of the ASX 300 before taking into account fees and expenses. 

This is supposed to be launched today, however not currently coming up on ASX, so look out for it on Monday.


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## Nyden (8 May 2009)

Shows up for me, with a volume of only 715!

I like STW because the big boys actually keep it in line with the index, or close enough to it.


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## donteventryit (8 May 2009)

Nyden said:


> Shows up for me, with a volume of only 715!
> 
> I like STW because the big boys actually keep it in line with the index, or close enough to it.




Also, (now ) showing up for me with a volume of 915. 

In regards to "keeping in line with the index", Vanguard have the following info: 

You can buy or sell Vanguard ETFs at any time throughout the ASX trading day. Market liquidity for ETFs is maintained by ‘market-makers’ who ensure that buy and sell prices are quoted continuously on the ASX. The structure of ETFs ensures this investment generally trades close to the Net Asset Value (NAV).​


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## dsduncs (22 July 2009)

Interesting comparison this with STW (red) and S&P200 (XJO)  over the last 2 months.. STW has provided a dividend over in early July which may  be the difference.


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## So_Cynical (22 July 2009)

dsduncs said:


> Interesting comparison this with STW (red) and S&P200 (XJO)  over the last 2 months.. STW has provided a dividend over in early July which may  be the difference.




Strange as bigcharts shows a different story, with VAS lagging both the index and STW....i also did a comparison with XKO (ASX300) and the result was alot closer...as u would expect i spose, since VAS tracks the XKO.

One of the big differences between the two funds is market cap

VAS Market Cap: 16,867,200
STW Market Cap: 1,539,003,959
STW is also very active in the options market.


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## sitk (23 July 2009)

Whether you decide to invest in VAS over STW or not, we should just be happy there's a bit more competition building in the aussie ETF sector, which is lagging the US product range and cost ratios quite badly.


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## osmosis (3 October 2009)

Another difference:

STW -- tracks ASX 200; dividends paid bi-annually. (annual fee 0.27%)
VAS  -- tracks ASX 300; distributions paid quarterly.(annual Fee 0.286%)


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## The Barbarian Investor (17 August 2012)

osmosis said:


> Another difference:
> 
> STW -- tracks ASX 200; dividends paid bi-annually. (annual fee 0.27%)
> VAS  -- tracks ASX 300; distributions paid quarterly.(annual Fee 0.286%)




And higher overall dividend for VAS


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## The Barbarian Investor (10 October 2012)

VAS has adjusted their MER, now around 0.18 from memory and being an ASX 300 rather than ASX 200 may offer some advantages over the long term

Is there an actual "Index" fund available, or only the aforementioned ?


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## ahyeah (9 July 2015)

Sorry to bump but I'm new here,


looking for any calculators that people have found online to perform back testing on Vanguard ETFs.


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## QuietGrowth (15 November 2015)

Please note that VAS tracks ASX 300. It is more diversified compared to ASX 200.

We at *QuietGrowth* has VAS in our portfolios, to represent the Australian shares asset class.


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## MrBurns (4 July 2016)

Just got the dividend notification for VAS seems to be 19c for 3 months, isn't that low for a share worth $66 ?

Or am I missing something.....?


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## Ves (4 July 2016)

MrBurns said:


> Just got the dividend notification for VAS seems to be 19c for 3 months, isn't that low for a share worth $66 ?
> 
> Or am I missing something.....?



Without looking at it in massive detail a few things that stood out in the last quarter which would affect the VAS payout:

-BHP cut it's dividend dramatically 
-RIO cut it's dividend by a fair chunk as well
-CBA's dividend was paid 31 March rather than in April this year (so VAS paid this out in the previous quarter)

There's probably a few others.  When an index is skewed towards a few big companies the payouts can be pretty volatile.


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## MrBurns (4 July 2016)

Ves said:


> Without looking at it in massive detail a few things that stood out in the last quarter which would affect the VAS payout:
> 
> -BHP cut it's dividend dramatically
> -RIO cut it's dividend by a fair chunk as well
> ...




Ok thanks, that's miserable at best.


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## skyQuake (4 July 2016)

MrBurns said:


> Ok thanks, that's miserable at best.




They pay quarterly - see attached

Inception in 2009 so yield started off as 0


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## MrBurns (4 July 2016)

skyQuake said:


> They pay quarterly - see attached
> 
> Inception in 2009 so yield started off as 0




Looks like I'd be better off just putting it in Australian Super.

In fact I've been thinking lately that's an easier option for all my Super , they seem to get reasonable returns.


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## Lone Wolf (4 July 2016)

I only have 5 min for my lunch break so this may have an error, DYOR.

I googled for VAS div and got:
http://www.smh.com.au/business/mark.../vanguard-australian-shares-index-etf?page=-1

I used excel to total the div for each year:




It seems that, assuming the Oct payout is similar to previous years, we are still on track for this time of year. But there have been cuts this year so I'm expecting Oct to be less.

And yes, that should be dividend totals, not divident.


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## MrBurns (4 July 2016)

Lone Wolf said:


> I only have 5 min for my lunch break so this may have an error, DYOR.
> 
> I googled for VAS div and got:
> http://www.smh.com.au/business/mark.../vanguard-australian-shares-index-etf?page=-1
> ...




Looks like 4.4% so far this year, less management costs, less capital loss...Australian Super still looks a better bet.


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## poverty (4 July 2016)

Been talking about this on another forum.  It looks like a few big bank dividends were paid a couple of days later this year than last year which has pushed them out of the Q2 distribution and into the Q3.  This dividend last year was 75% franked, this year less than 8% franked.


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## JonhyRico (2 March 2018)

Any major differences between VAF and IOZ?


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## sptrawler (10 July 2019)

Vanguards VAS and VAP ETF's are doing exceptionally well, so far this year 19% each.
The amount of money getting sent into these ETF's must be a bit of a concern, they are obviously going to have a big impact on the market, if there is a correction. IMO
Having said that, they may well be great to try and pick the bottom, if the 'mother' of all corrections happens.


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## Belli (1 July 2020)

Back in March I added some more VAS to my holding.  I noticed yesterday the distribution for the June quarter will be about $0.20 compared with $0.80 pcp.  Interesting impact Covid-19 has had on many companies.


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## sptrawler (1 July 2020)

Belli said:


> Back in March I added some more VAS to my holding.  I noticed yesterday the distribution for the June quarter will be about $0.20 compared with $0.80 pcp.  Interesting impact Covid-19 has had on many companies.



The reality of dividends, hasn't yet hit those that rely on them yet, it is going to be a terrible year for some.


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## Belli (1 July 2020)

sptrawler said:


> The reality of dividends, hasn't yet hit those that rely on them yet, it is going to be a terrible year for some.




Yeah, one reason I don't have only ETFs.  No reserves whereas the LICs I hold do.


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## sptrawler (1 July 2020)

Belli said:


> Yeah, one reason I don't have only ETFs.  No reserves whereas the LICs I hold do.



It is times like this, that people gain the experience to make wise decisions, things don't always go up and things don't always recover quickly.
I'm with you on the lic's.


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## Belli (28 September 2020)

VAS, VGS and other Vanguard ETFs have provided estimated distributions for the period ending 30 September.

For VAS it is $0.570344 per Unit.

Down from $1.07096 for September last year.  The reduction isn't surprising considering the economic conditions at the moment.

For VGS, the distribution is approximately the same as per last September.

Hold both.


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## Belli (30 December 2020)

Vanguard has announced estimated distributions for its ETFs.



			https://cdn-api.markitdigital.com/apiman-gateway/ASX/asx-research/1.0/file/2924-02326954-2A1272561?access_token=83ff96335c2d45a094df02a206a39ff4
		


VAS is 43.42c.  For the same quarter last year it 72.1c so it is down by 40%.

I hold VAS and didn't have any expectation the result would be spectacular.


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## Dona Ferentes (30 December 2020)

Belli said:


> Vanguard has announced estimated distributions for its ETFs.
> 
> VAS is 43.42c.  For the same quarter last year it 72.1c so it is down by 40% ..... didn't have any expectation the result would be spectacular.



As ETFs can only pass through income, that would have been expected, with the last few quarters seeing many companies delaying, postponing reducing or temporarily suspending dividends altogether. 

Also, elsewhere, @Belli wrote







> My only real bugbear with these is waiting until the Annual Tax Statements become available



 Again, as the sum of its parts, accounts can't be prepared until ALL components are received. 

For these two reasons, I prefer the LIC path


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## Belli (30 December 2020)

Dona Ferentes said:


> As ETFs can only pass through income, that would have been expected, with the last few quarters seeing many companies delaying, postponing reducing or temporarily suspending dividends altogether.
> 
> Also, elsewhere, @Belli wrote Again, as the sum of its parts, accounts can't be prepared until ALL components are received.
> 
> For these two reasons, I prefer the LIC path




I also hold a number of LICs as I've previously mentioned as with ETFs, they are required to empty the "bank account" for each distribution as they are tax through entities whereas LICs have profit reserves which can be used to support dividends for a period

Was useful attribute during the GFC - which is still with us really as such events have a very long tail. 

I buy VAS when my prefered LICs are above NTA by a margin greater than 5%.


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## Belli (28 September 2021)

VAS has announced the estimated distribution for the September quarter is $1.412147 and is payable on 18 October.

This compares with $0.548148 for the pcp.


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## Belli (23 December 2021)

Holders of VAS will find out soon enough the distribution for the December quarter.  However, as an indication, STW (ASX200) announced yesterday its estimated distribution is $0.465772 per unit.  This compares with the actual of $0.382029 for the previous December quarter.

It would imply VAS distribution (should it increase by the same percentage) will be around the $0.53 mark.


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## Belli (29 December 2021)

Belli said:


> Holders of VAS will find out soon enough the distribution for the December quarter.  However, as an indication, STW (ASX200) announced yesterday its estimated distribution is $0.465772 per unit.  This compares with the actual of $0.382029 for the previous December quarter.
> 
> It would imply VAS distribution (should it increase by the same percentage) will be around the $0.53 mark.




That was a poor guess.  Estimated distribution is $0.696543 per unit.  Payable 19 January.


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## divs4ever (17 January 2022)

PLEASE CROSS RELEASE TO ALL BELOW COMPANY CODES

Vanguard Investments Australia Limited announces the following:
• Vanguard Australia Shares Index ETF (ASX: VAS) (ARSN: 090 939 718)
• Vanguard Australian Shares High Yield ETF (ASX: VHY) (ARSN: 091 751 807)
• Vanguard MSCI Australian Large Companies Index ETF (ASX: VLC) (ARSN: 147 936 105)
On 17 August 2021, BHP announced their intention to unify its dual-listed company structure into a single entity, BHP Limited,
incorporated in Australia. Under this unification proposal, shares in BHP Plc would be exchanged for a depositary interest for
shares in BHP Limited on a one-for-one basis. This proposal is subject to shareholders in BHP Group Limited and BHP Group Plc
voting in favour of the company’s proposal at meetings scheduled for 20 January 2022.
To prepare for the proposed unification, from 17 January 2022 Vanguard Investments Australia (VIA) will be able to acquire
BHP Plc shares on the London Stock Exchange to support the investment strategies of the above-named Funds.
Under the BHP proposal, any shares in BHP Plc that VIA acquires will be exchanged for depository interests in BHP Limited,
listed on the London Stock exchange. If approved, the unification is scheduled to be complete on 31 January 2022 at which time
VIA will commence the process to transition the depository interests into ASX listed BHP Limited shares.
US E-mini Index Futures
Vanguard Investments Australia (VIA) will also be able to use US E-mini Index Futures in the period leading up to, and on the
date of BHP’s unification, to maintain fund liquidity, manage market exposure and cash flows, while supporting broader
funding requirements.
Currency Risk
Acquisition of BHP Plc and US E-minis will result in direct exposure to the US and UK markets, which will introduce a small
amount of currency risk. Currency risk is the chance that the value of a foreign investment, measured in Australian dollars, will
decrease because of unfavourable changes in currency exchange rates.
Investment strategy and investment return objective
These short-term changes are consistent with the investment strategy and investment return objectives of the funds, and,
given the significance of the anticipated impact of the proposed unification on the Australian equities market, are being made
in the best interest of investors.
Adjustment to index methodology of the Vanguard Australian Shares High Yield Fund and ETF (VHY)
The Vanguard Australian Shares High Yield ETF (VHY) tracks the FTSE Australia High Dividend Yield Index. This index applies a
10% maximum weighting to any one company when the index is rebalanced semi-annually. To maintain these diversification
17 January 2022
requirements, a 10% cap will be applied to BHP based on the closing price on 21 January 2022. On the effective date, Vanguard
fund weightings in BHP may be over 10% due to market movements.
Please ensure that you refer to the relevant product disclosure statements when making an investment decision.

 ==========================================================================================================

 DYOR

 i hold VHY and VAS ( and BHP directly )

 well have to think about this  i was planning to exit both VAS and VHY  shortly after the div. payment date


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## Belli (29 March 2022)

Estimated distribution of 199.8517c per unit announced.  Payable 20 April.


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## Belli (2 April 2022)

Belli said:


> Estimated distribution of 199.8517c per unit announced.  Payable 20 April.





First, I'm OK with accepting a distribution of $2 per unit.  No problems with that at all.  What is curious is the why.

VAS tracks the ASX 300 and its pcp distribution was $0.77 per unit.   STW tracks the ASX 200 yet its current distribution is $0.72c per unit (pcp $0.57.)

A big disparity in current distributions between VAS v STW and the additional 100 companies in VAS would not likely account for that.  Maybe each has accommodated the BHP action in a different way.

Doesn't really matter.  More than happy to receive a substantial amount in the account on the 20th.


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## KevinBB (2 April 2022)

Belli said:


> A big disparity in current distributions between VAS v STW and the additional 100 companies in VAS would not likely account for that. Maybe each has accommodated the BHP action in a different way.




An initial guess as to the cause of the disparity is that the 300 companies in VAS paid more dividends during the last quarter than the 200 companies in STW.

VAS and STW, being trusts, are required to distribute those dividends. Now, whether the distribution is in cash or in kind, or quarterly or annually, is up to the trust, but the distribution has to be made.

KH


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## Belli (2 April 2022)

The ASX 200 accounts for approx 80% of the market whereas the ASX 300 accounts for around 82%.  I cannot see how that additional 2% would account for an increase of 150% over the pcp distribution for VAS when the STW increase was 37% over pcp distribution.

 Vanguard announced it was buying BHP LLC on the London market before the relocation.  STW when I checked was silent on that aspect.  Interestingly VAS advises its latest turnover ratio is 0.82% while that for STW is above 2%.

I'll look at the distribution components when Vanguard provides it as that may have a clue.  Only a curiosity on my part.


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## divs4ever (2 April 2022)

Belli said:


> The ASX 200 accounts for approx 80% of the market whereas the ASX 300 accounts for around 82%.  I cannot see how that additional 2% would account for an increase of 150% over the pcp distribution for VAS when the STW increase was 37% over pcp distribution.
> 
> Vanguard announced it was buying BHP LLC on the London market before the relocation.  STW when I checked was silent on that aspect.  Interestingly VAS advises its latest turnover ratio is 0.82% while that for STW is above 2%.
> 
> I'll look at the distribution components when Vanguard provides it as that may have a clue.  Only a curiosity on my part.



 what about M&A activity ( especially in the mid caps )   depending on the timing of div. calculation  that might help  narrow the difference 

 in theory  STW should have  held slightly more BHP percentage wise ( but some clever buying  of BHP  might have made some difference  bought cheap in London  sold the excess at a fair price on the ASX )

 now also you should be looking at VHY  as well in this comparison  because VHY holds more ( percentage wise ) BHP than either VAS or STW

 maybe VAS was bringing extra cash  by lending out the portfolio holdings ( as it has openly declared  it will do  from time to time )


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## divs4ever (2 April 2022)

STW   Total Holdings 209

SPDR S&P/ASX 200, seeks to closely match, before fees and expenses, the returns of the S&P/ASX 200 Index. Our approach is designed to provide portfolios with low portfolio turnover, accurate tracking, and lower costs.

Top 10 Holdings


CODECOMPANYASSETBHPBHP Group Ltd10.92%CBACommonwealth Bank of Australia7.38%CSLCSL Ltd5.75%NABNational Australia Bank Ltd4.39%WBCWestpac Banking Corp3.71%


CODECOMPANYASSETANZAustralia and New Zealand Banking Group Ltd3.40%MQGMacquarie Group Ltd2.96%WESWesfarmers Ltd2.52%--Spi 200 Futures Mar22 Xsfe 202203172.33%TLSTelstra Corp Ltd2.18%



 interesting they hold so many futures contracts , currently


TYPECPSFRANKEDEX-DIV DATEPAY DATEInterim71.91090.00%30/03/202212/04/2022Interim46.58071.00%30/12/202113/01/2022Interim105.66088.00%29/09/202112/10/2021Final54.31040.00%29/06/202112/07/2021Interim51.73088.00%30/03/202114/04/2021Interim38.20074.00%30/12/202013/01/2021Interim42.97085.00%29/09/202012/10/2020Final10.97052.00%29/06/202010/07/2020Interim47.24083.00%30/03/202014/04/2020Interim60.07062.00%30/12/201913/01/2020


 VAS  Total Holdings 312

The ETF seeks to track the return (income and capital appreciation) of the S&P/ASX 300 Index before taking into account fund fees, expenses, and tax. The S&P/ASX 300 Accumulation Index is a free-float adjusted capitalisation weighted index of approximately 300 Australian equities (shares) representing over 90 per cent of the value of all Australian based companies and property trusts listed on the ASX.

Top 10 Holdings


CODECOMPANYASSETBHPBHP Group Ltd11.01%CBACommonwealth Bank of Australia7.43%CSLCSL Ltd5.80%NABNational Australia Bank Ltd4.43%WBCWestpac Banking Corp3.72%


CODECOMPANYASSETANZAustralia and New Zealand Banking Group Ltd3.42%MQGMacquarie Group Ltd2.98%WESWesfarmers Ltd2.55%TLSTelstra Corp Ltd2.19%RIORio Tinto Ltd2.04%


TYPECPSFRANKEDEX-DIV DATEPAY DATEInterim199.850--01/04/202220/04/2022Interim69.65063.00%04/01/202219/01/2022Interim140.73087.00%01/10/202118/10/2021Final55.64050.00%01/07/202116/07/2021Interim77.00081.00%01/04/202120/04/2021Interim43.42079.00%04/01/202119/01/2021Interim56.84084.00%01/10/202016/10/2020Final20.60052.00%01/07/202016/07/2020Interim67.27078.00%01/04/202020/04/2020Interim72.14068.00%02/01/202017/01/2020

 VHY  Total Holdings 67

The fund employs an index management strategy designed to track the return (income and capital appreciation) of the FTSE ASFA Australia High Dividend Yield Index. To closely track the index, the fund will aim to hold all of the securities in the index (at most times) allowing for individual security weightings to vary marginally from the index from time to time. The fund may invest in securities that have been or are expected to be included in the index.

Top 10 Holdings 


CODECOMPANYASSETBHPBHP Group Ltd10.36%CBACommonwealth Bank of Australia9.74%NABNational Australia Bank Ltd7.19%WESWesfarmers Ltd6.82%WBCWestpac Banking Corp6.01%


CODECOMPANYASSETTLSTelstra Corp Ltd5.88%ANZAustralia and New Zealand Banking Group Ltd5.57%RIORio Tinto Ltd5.49%TCLTransurban Group4.83%MQGMacquarie Group Ltd4.64%


TYPECPSFRANKEDEX-DIV DATEPAY DATEInterim82.810--01/04/202220/04/2022Interim48.21084.00%04/01/202219/01/2022Interim158.57093.00%01/10/202118/10/2021Final32.83086.00%01/07/202116/07/2021Interim82.72092.00%01/04/202120/04/2021Interim42.90092.00%04/01/202119/01/2021Interim56.90092.00%01/10/202016/10/2020Final22.66073.00%01/07/202016/07/2020Interim63.24095.00%01/04/202020/04/2020Interim65.79080.00%02/01/202017/01/2020


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## divs4ever (2 April 2022)

A200   Total Holdings  197

The Index is designed to provide exposure to 200 of the largest companies listed on the ASX, based on their free float-adjusted market capitalisation. The Fund will seek to achieve the investment objective by adopting a âfull replicationâ strategy.


Top 10 Holdings

CODECOMPANYASSETBHPBHP Group Ltd11.70%CBACommonwealth Bank of Australia7.87%CSLCSL Ltd5.87%NABNational Australia Bank Ltd4.68%WBCWestpac Banking Corp4.14%


CODECOMPANYASSETANZAustralia and New Zealand Banking Group Ltd3.63%MQGMacquarie Group Ltd3.20%WESWesfarmers Ltd2.68%TLSTelstra Corp Ltd2.31%RIORio Tinto Ltd2.16%


TYPECPSFRANKEDEX-DIV DATEPAY DATEInterim129.790--01/04/202220/04/2022Interim78.56072.00%04/01/202219/01/2022Interim169.92089.00%01/10/202118/10/2021Final56.55055.00%01/07/202116/07/2021Interim89.17087.00%01/04/202120/04/2021Interim62.40065.00%04/01/202119/01/2021Interim68.01087.00%01/10/202016/10/2020Final57.41046.00%01/07/202016/07/2020Interim42.40090.00%01/04/202020/04/2020Interim114.14061.00%02/01/202017/01/2020

 IOZ  Total Holdings 203


The Fund invests primarily in Australian listed securities that form the Index. The Index measures the performance of the 200 largest index-eligible stocks listed on the ASX by float-adjusted market capitalisation.


CODECOMPANYASSETBHPBHP Group Ltd11.05%CBACommonwealth Bank of Australia7.46%CSLCSL Ltd5.82%NABNational Australia Bank Ltd4.44%WBCWestpac Banking Corp3.74%
Top 10 Holdings

CODECOMPANYASSETANZAustralia and New Zealand Banking Group Ltd3.43%MQGMacquarie Group Ltd2.99%WESWesfarmers Ltd2.56%TLSTelstra Corp Ltd2.20%RIORio Tinto Ltd2.05%


TYPECPSFRANKEDEX-DIV DATEPAY DATEInterim----07/04/202221/04/2022Interim14.59067.00%06/01/202218/01/2022Interim47.74088.00%08/10/202120/10/2021Final20.36046.00%01/07/202113/07/2021Interim24.96080.00%07/04/202119/04/2021Interim8.40066.00%06/01/202118/01/2021Interim18.11083.00%09/10/202021/10/2020Final9.00064.00%01/07/202013/07/2020Interim19.13097.00%07/04/202021/04/2020Interim18.64057.00%06/01/202016/01/2020


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## Belli (6 April 2022)

Belli said:


> I'll look at the distribution components when Vanguard provides it as that may have a clue.




Now clarified.  From VAS Distribution Tax Estimates announced yesterday (cents per unit.)


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## Ann (29 April 2022)

Tuesday saw a bullish volume spike on the VAS, this may see a rise in the price if I am reading volume spikes at a low price point correctly. There is no massive rise in money flow but it is also not falling away, it is still at slightly negative levels.


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## Boggo (29 April 2022)

I did have VAS in my SMSF from late 2020 to Sept 2021 but I am still keeping an eye on it.

If you look at the weekly chart you may see that it's done nothing since Aug 2021.
Next breakout above ~$98 would be needed I think.

Finding individual shares in that ETF and in up and coming metals and mining sector has been much more productive for me.

Just my


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## divs4ever (29 April 2022)

Boggo said:


> Finding individual shares in that ETF and in up and coming metals and mining sector has been much more productive for me.
> 
> Just my



 +1 

 although  take-over action  has created a large amount of the profits  made


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## Belli (28 June 2022)

VAS est. distribution for the June quarter is $2.172445c per unit.  Payable on 18 July.


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## Belli (29 June 2022)

Did back of the envelop numbers.

This FY VAS will pay $6.27 in distributions.  Well above the usual amount (generally c $3.50).  Mainly due I feel to BHP's dual listing decision and then the BHP/Woodside shenanigans.  Working on the adage "spend less than your income" $3 per unit (after making any provisions, i.e. a guess, for tax) is deployed back into the market.

Frigging lot of cash from VAS rolled into my account and that of the SMSF this FY.


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## Belli (29 June 2022)

Belli said:


> This FY VAS will pay $6.27 in distributions.




A slight correction as the statement should be "This FY it is estimated VAS will pay..." as the actual can change until the final amount of distribution is declared.

It is a calming feeling for the soul not to give a hoot about what specific companies are doing.  Certainly not stressful at all.  Also provides a relaxing opportunity to watch others.  Not dissing what they do from an investing perspective.  I'm just grateful I don't.


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## KevinBB (29 June 2022)

Belli said:


> A slight correction as the statement should be "This FY it is estimated VAS will pay..." as the actual can change until the final amount of distribution is declared.
> 
> It is a calming feeling for the soul not to give a hoot about what specific companies are doing.  Certainly not stressful at all.  Also provides a relaxing opportunity to watch others.  Not dissing what they do from an investing perspective.  I'm just grateful I don't.



and, the most important reason of all ... on average, stock pickers won't beat a broad based index, so investing in a index based ETF which is based on a broad based index puts you one step ahead of all those stock pickers out there.

In summary, that's my thesis for owning IOZ, but it could be any one of IOZ, VAS, A200 or STW.

KH


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## divs4ever (29 June 2022)

VAS was nice but SYI  was better  

 ( i hold both SYI and VAS )


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## Belli (29 June 2022)

SYI







VAS






Conclusion: VAS is better but that's just my view.


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## KevinBB (29 June 2022)

divs4ever said:


> VAS was nice but SYI was better




But, SYI isn't an ETF based on a broad based index.

Generally, what I've found with high-yield ETFs, is that the unit holder is swapping capital for income. That might suit you, but it doesn't suit me or many other people.

KH


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## Belli (2 July 2022)

KevinBB said:


> investing in a index based ETF which is based on a broad based index puts you one step ahead of all those stock pickers out there.
> 
> In summary, that's my thesis for owning IOZ, but it could be any one of IOZ, VAS, A200 or STW.




I consider there is an additional benefit.  One of my kids isn't, and never will be to put it mildly, a high flier.  Not academically inclined.   Medical receptionist, does hospitality work, etc.  So their employment income is not what you would call flash.

When each of my brood turned 18 I handed over a wad of cash for them do do whatever.  This one, after extensive discussions with me, decided to invest in the share market.  Nothing flash; AFI, MIR, VAS, VGS and VISM.  Adds (very) small amounts whenever they have spare cash - and Dad also provides some support as I do with my other children.

According to a telephone chat last night last year their taxable income last FY is rather more than what their employment payment summaries would indicate.  Pretty good result I feel and should they keep at it, and I think they will, they will have a brighter future contrary to their employment appearances would suggest.


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## divs4ever (2 July 2022)

Belli said:


> SYI
> 
> View attachment 143435
> 
> ...



 you see those dips ( in SYI ) as a bad thing  i use them as  top-up opportunities  

 cheers


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## Belli (2 July 2022)

So you're still unable to work out what the difference of 3.7% pa compounding actually means.


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## divs4ever (2 July 2022)

Belli said:


> So you're still unable to work out what the difference of 3.7% pa compounding actually means.



 i hold both DRPed   that is very enlightening over the last 10 years 

 VHY ( while i held it kicked dirt into VAS's face as well  when DRP'ed )

 while IHD  was  a comparatively poor  adventure ( but still profitable over the time )


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## Belli (2 July 2022)

Moderate growth and Lower Yield v Low Growth and Higher Yield.  Which would investors prefer over a longer time-frame?


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## Sharkman (3 July 2022)

Belli said:


> Moderate growth and Lower Yield v Low Growth and Higher Yield.  Which would investors prefer over a longer time-frame?
> 
> View attachment 143549




personally i prefer high growth and little to no yield, which is why i did consider, but ultimately passed on VAS and went for the IVV + VEU combo instead when i was converting from being primarily an options trader to becoming a long term index investor several years ago. that's just me though.


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## divs4ever (3 July 2022)

Sharkman said:


> personally i prefer high growth and little to no yield, which is why i did consider, but ultimately passed on VAS and went for the IVV + VEU combo instead when i was converting from being primarily an options trader to becoming a long term index investor several years ago. that's just me though.



wasn't comfortable with the heavy international exposure  , and went heavier Australia/NZ ( but not exclusively so )  , but plenty of strategies available these days 

 good luck


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## Sharkman (3 July 2022)

divs4ever said:


> wasn't comfortable with the heavy international exposure  , and went heavier Australia/NZ ( but not exclusively so )  , but plenty of strategies available these days
> 
> good luck




i'm still in the process of increasing my international weighting, as it gets me more exposure to the high tech and industrial manufacturing sectors that we just don't have all that much of in Aust. but as you say many different options available depending on the individual.

in my view being currency unhedged in those funds actually gives you hedging in a way, due to equities and AUD both being considered risk on assets, so when equities go down the AUD generally goes down as well, cushioning any fall in the international ETFs in AUD terms. it does impose a cap on the upside when AUD rallies along with equities, but overall it generates a smoothing effect, i think of it kinda like sticking a collar over a stock position vs running a naked position (yep i still think like an options trader even though i'm mostly a buy & hold index investor these days). this could be a positive or negative depending on the individual. i find it a positive. others might think differently.


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## JohnDe (3 July 2022)

Sharkman said:


> i'm still in the process of increasing my international weighting, as it gets me more exposure to the high tech and industrial manufacturing sectors that we just don't have all that much of in Aust. but as you say many different options available depending on the individual.
> 
> in my view being currency unhedged in those funds actually gives you hedging in a way, due to equities and AUD both being considered risk on assets, so when equities go down the AUD generally goes down as well, cushioning any fall in the international ETFs in AUD terms. it does impose a cap on the upside when AUD rallies along with equities, but overall it generates a smoothing effect, i think of it kinda like sticking a collar over a stock position vs running a naked position (yep i still think like an options trader even though i'm mostly a buy & hold index investor these days). this could be a positive or negative depending on the individual. i find it a positive. others might think differently.




I agree and am also increasing some of my international holdings. I also looked into emerging markets, but I never felt very comfortable even though profits looked good, now I definitely won't be touching for a while.


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## Belli (3 July 2022)

Sharkman said:


> personally i prefer high growth and little to no yield, which is why i did consider, but ultimately passed on VAS and went for the IVV + VEU combo instead when i was converting from being primarily an options trader to becoming a long term index investor several years ago. that's just me though.




I did consider the total return position at one stage with a view to selling down over time due to the favourable CG aspect but went for moderate growth plus income.  Prefer to buy my groceries with the cash in bank rather than worrying about which tranche of 5 units I'd need to sell.  .  I have avoided those products which generate a high yield by returning a large proportion of capital.

When I first started investing there wasn't much I could find listed which gave international exposure.  Sure there were unlisted funds but I got burnt with them so after extracting myself from them stuck to LICs.  Now, since I have a bucket load in LICs and in VAS, while I still invest in VAS and sometimes in LICs, a large portion of my funds are directed towards VGS which in itself has a large exposure to the US with which I am comfortable.  Emerging markets would have been a possibility in the past but not for me now with the greater associated risk (as defined by me for me.  )

But as you imply it's an individual thing.

Generally I feel if investors stick to broad based, relatively low cost entities and not jump for what may appear the "next best thing" as some apparently do, while they may not shoot the lights out they won't go far wrong either.


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## divs4ever (3 July 2022)

i am VERY CAREFULLY  trying to increase my exposure to India  , that is currently via 2 LICs ( PAI and EAI )  and one ETF ( IIND )  and also hold ASIA  , but crikey  India is a tough place to research 

 but mostly focused on Australia and NZ ( and a much lesser extent to PNG )

 but looks like a time to be careful ( but not paralyzed with fear )


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## Sharkman (3 July 2022)

Belli said:


> I did consider the total return position at one stage with a view to selling down over time due to the favourable CG aspect but went for moderate growth plus income.  Prefer to buy my groceries with the cash in bank rather than worrying about which tranche of 5 units I'd need to sell.




that's fair enough, there's definitely a big drawcard to having the funds just appear in your account automatically, ready to be spent on living life. i'm still willing to go thru the hassle of selling units to raise cash as necessary though, i like the tax flexibility of being able to sell just enough units to suit the situation i'm in eg. being able to stop on a dime right before my trust beneficiaries creep into the next bracket, and get the 50% CGT discount on those units.

the other reason i'm not so keen on yield is that companies with a high payout ratio aren't reinvesting their profits to fuel their own growth. if a company is capable of a 20%+ ROE, i don't want them paying me a dividend, i'd rather they keep it and pump it back into growing their own business. of course nothing's ever guaranteed, but this should in theory generate better total return in the form of capital growth over the long term. investors in many developed nations, particularly the US, adopt this philosophy. but for some reason Aust investors in general are fixated on yield over total return (maybe it's the franking credit effect, i'm not sure).


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## Belli (3 July 2022)

Sharkman said:


> the other reason i'm not so keen on yield is that companies with a high payout ratio aren't reinvesting their profits to fuel their own growth.




It's an interesting point.  I don't know the payout ratio of individual companies in Australia although I was informed Macquarie's latest was below 60%.  I do know that presently the ratio for the LICs I hold are above 100% due to using some reserves but LICs are a different beast so really not a comparison.

It's a fine balancing act I think for companies and sometimes too much cash goes to their head so they back up the B-Double and shovel the money into a furnace on some hair-brained scheme (Bunnings' O/S adventure, Woolworths & Masters, BHP & Magna.).  In those cases I feel shareholders would have preferred to get the cash. 

And of course you are in a different situation than I as I don't have a discretionary or family trust in operation and therefore no trust beneficiaries.  I simply give my kids cash once in a while so it's tax-free in their hands. Hey, they're going to get the lot eventually so they may as well have some of it now.


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## Sharkman (3 July 2022)

Belli said:


> It's a fine balancing act I think for companies and sometimes too much cash goes to their head so they back up the B-Double and shovel the money into a furnace on some hair-brained scheme (Bunnings' O/S adventure, Woolworths & Masters, BHP & Magna.).  In those cases I feel shareholders would have preferred to get the cash.




yeah there's going to be a few cases of that across the broader market, and it sure doesn't feel great when you've directly invested in a company that fritters away capital like that (i got burned a bit by the Masters fiasco myself, i bought some WOW back in the early 2000s as a buy & hold position when i first started working, before i set up my trust, got into options trading and well before i switched to index investing).

but if investing in an entire index, i don't think it has that much of an impact, the weighting of such companies shrinks over time as a result of their misadventures, and the fund should end up buying more and more of the companies who continue to reinvest their profits well and produce better and better products, so it works itself out in the long run.

behemoths like Microsoft, Apple, Nvidia etc. probably don't become what they are today if they'd paid out a 5% dividend instead of paying the zero or sub-1% that they did, and retaining the rest to ensure they had the capital to fund product R&D. closer to home i guess our closest equivalent would be CSL, which also pays a yield of around 1%, and has done for many years.


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## Belli (4 July 2022)

Yes, the home country bias.  The concept has been around for a long time.  Here is a recent blog opinion on the subject; there are many more.









						Home Country Bias Investing And Why It Can Be A Big Problem
					

All of us are patriots to some degree. However, it's good to beware of home country bias to protect ourselves from unexpected risk. Home country bias refers to investors' tendency to favor companies from their own country over those from other countries or regions. After all, it's usually better...




					www.financialsamurai.com


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## divs4ever (4 July 2022)

i would counter that with Buffet's ' invest in what you understand '

 yes i have some international ( focus ) exposure ( although ASX listed  ) VUK and JHG  and a lesser extent PDL for the UK  , a collection of NZ based companies , KSL for PNG  a few LICs and ETFs that invest in Asia  , ZIM  operating in Africa ,  but i am looking at the geopolitics and am not seeing a compelling picture  the go into distant shores , add FX rate risk  , i am very wary 

 maybe after the war ( that is coming )


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## Belli (28 September 2022)

VAS announced an estimated distribution for the September quarter of $1.44794 ($1.407 for pcp) payable on 18 October.


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## Belli (28 December 2022)

VAS has announced an estimated distribution of $0.746624 for the December quarter.  PCP was $0.696.


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