# Scalping the HSI & the K200  (SIM)



## CanOz

Well this was certainly worth another thread IMO...compared to the practice i did on the DAX, the HSI is so fast. Even with the DAX on x3 speed its nothing compared to this. There must be quite an adjustment period in order to master this. At the same time there is some great momentum moves if you get on the right side. I'm using a 10 tick stop.

1 Contract to start with and I'm only taking trades that seem very obvious to me...Even then with prices flitting around so much i don't feel completely confident that the trades i took were based on anything more than the chart at this stage.

CanOz


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## Gringotts Bank

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*



CanOz said:


> Well this was certainly worth another thread IMO...compared to the practice i did on the DAX, the HSI is so fast. Even with the DAX on x3 speed its nothing compared to this. There must be quite an adjustment period in order to master this. At the same time there is some great momentum moves if you get on the right side. I'm using a 10 tick stop.
> 
> 1 Contract to start with and I'm only taking trades that seem very obvious to me...Even then with prices flitting around so much i don't feel completely confident that the trades i took were based on anything more than the chart at this stage.
> 
> CanOz




I'd be interested to see a few charts with your entries and exits, if u got time.


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## CanOz

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*



Gringotts Bank said:


> I'd be interested to see a few charts with your entries and exits, if u got time.




LOL, its not pretty. On the plus side i'm being more disciplined with the stops as i really have no idea whats going on!!

The commissions would have killed me already...1500 HKD.

This is a remarkable experience.

CanOz


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## skc

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*



CanOz said:


> Well this was certainly worth another thread IMO...compared to the practice i did on the DAX, the HSI is so fast. Even with the DAX on x3 speed its nothing compared to this. There must be quite an adjustment period in order to master this. At the same time there is some great momentum moves if you get on the right side. I'm using a 10 tick stop.
> 
> 1 Contract to start with and I'm only taking trades that seem very obvious to me...Even then with prices flitting around so much i don't feel completely confident that the trades i took were based on anything more than the chart at this stage.
> 
> CanOz




What's the usual spread on the HSI? 10pts seems small unless you have the trembling hands.


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## CanOz

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*

Got some points back on that last push higher....covered my theoretical brokerage anyway. Put me ahead for the morning. Scaling in has helped. Slippage could make this much worse.

CanOz


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## CanOz

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*

Bloody amateur hour! :cussing::swear::blbl::shake:

Blender...


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## Trembling Hand

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*



CanOz said:


> Bloody amateur hour! :cussing::swear::blbl::shake:
> 
> Blender...




Yeah you want frustration. Have a look at my morning session. 80 RTs and still flat! LOL




Only doing slightly better for the arvo.....


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## CanOz

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*

When is rollover for the HSI? I'm getting all these huge block trades, i'm assuming its large rollovers?

When is the best time to start on the June Contract? This exchange is really hopeless, why don't they go with three month contracts instead of monthly?

CanOz


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## sinner

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*



CanOz said:


> When is rollover for the HSI? I'm getting all these huge block trades, i'm assuming its large rollovers?




Last Trading Day:	 The business day immediately preceding the last business day of the contract month
Final Settlement Day: The first business day after the last trading day



> When is the best time to start on the June Contract? This exchange is really hopeless, why don't they go with three month contracts instead of monthly?
> 
> CanOz




In general, you want to be rolling over to the next month 5-7 days before last trading day.

From the contract specs I can see, HSI definitely does quarterlies.
Contract Months:	Spot month, the next calendar month, and the next two calendar quarterly months (March, June, September, and December).

From HKex


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## CanOz

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*

Thanks Sinner, i see the May contract has pretty much rolled already.

CanOz


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## Trembling Hand

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*

Nah not quarterly they are monthly. And the roll over date if you're trading is swap to next month on the day they expire(Expiry Day as per here.). That is trade the earliest month right up to the afternoon of Expiry Day.


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## Trembling Hand

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*



CanOz said:


> Thanks Sinner, i see the May contract has pretty much rolled already.
> 
> CanOz



Nah nah nah. Still trading May


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## CanOz

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*

Well that's what i had previously thought, but whats with the huge lots going through this morning, i just figured it was rollovers?

CanOz


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## Trembling Hand

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*



CanOz said:


> Well that's what i had previously thought, but whats with the huge lots going through this morning, i just figured it was rollovers?
> 
> CanOz




Yeah it is but the actual roll-overs happen when the broker can be bothered doing it. Will go on right up to expiry day. That's why volume gradually rises towards expiry.


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## CanOz

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*



Trembling Hand said:


> Yeah it is but the actual roll-overs happen when the broker can be bothered doing it. Will go on right up to expiry day. That's why volume gradually rises towards expiry.




Should i filter out these really big lots? Like stuff over 200 or something? appreciate your insight here...

CanOz


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## Trembling Hand

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*



CanOz said:


> Should i filter out these really big lots? Like stuff over 200 or something? appreciate your insight here...
> 
> CanOz




yep there are just rubbish.


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## CanOz

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*

I tell whats rubbish is this F******* market, it makes no sense. I think the only way to make money in it is to swing big size and take out all the stupid lemmings trying to figure out this stupid market It so thin and illiquid you can't tell what its going to do next. I see no evidence of anything useful in the DOM at all. 

At least in the DAX, the ES, CL, Bonds you can see big lots, obvious and iceburgs and the price reaction to them, the HSI will turn and reverse with just steady 1 or 2 lots...! I don't get it and i don't think i ever will, its stuffed!

CanOz


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## Trembling Hand

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*

hahahahaha :nosympath 



Trembling Hand said:


> Personally I wouldn't bother using the DOM to flip a few ticks here and there now days unless its a particularly slow day (or time of day). There is just far to much happening in the world to worry about scalping, true scalping.
> 
> With that said DOM skills for execution and watching your bigger time frame ideas play out are without doubt 100% necessary to trade futs fulltime. If you can get a tick or two on your winners and a tick less on your loses over a career of full time trading thats equates to $100,000s.
> 
> Blind Freddy may be happy to just hit the market after a moves starts for his 8 trades a week but doing 20-50 trades a day on a handful of contracts - a few ticks per trade is real money.




 :run:


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## CanOz

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*

I knew you'd love my rant...Maybe its because i keep falling asleep while watching the DOM that i miss all the obvious hints!:sleeping:....!

OR maybe its because i trade the DAX totally different, larger time frame etc....

Doh!

CanOz


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## Trembling Hand

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*



CanOz said:


> I knew you'd love my rant...Maybe its because i keep falling asleep while watching the DOM that i miss all the obvious hints!:sleeping:....!
> 
> OR maybe its because i trade the DAX totally different, larger time frame etc....
> 
> Doh!
> 
> CanOz




Interesting. I only really watch at predetermined price levels & time periods. 

:bong:


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## CanOz

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*

Have you ever looked at thicker markets? Maybe its easier for me to learn this on a thicker market like Bonds, or the ES??

Maybe i just should give Monday's a MISS!!!!

CanOz


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## Trembling Hand

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*



CanOz said:


> Have you ever looked at thicker markets? Maybe its easier for me to learn this on a thicker market




learn what though is the question?


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## CanOz

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*



Trembling Hand said:


> learn what though is the question?




Good bloody question!!!

Seriously i can see many times when the DAX just won't go Bid, or won't go Offer at a critical point, or i can see that i should take profits when the markets drops like a rock and then a big lot hits the bid and there are just no more sellers left...but honestly, i just rarely see that in the HSI, or i am looking for the wrong things in that market, that's why i think i should just stick with the DAX, at least I'm starting to get to know it, whereas the HSI is just plain nuts!

I can see why you only trade one market.

CanOz


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## dionysustoast

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*



Trembling Hand said:


> Interesting. I only really watch at predetermined price levels & time periods.
> 
> :bong:




Most do - but do you not think you need to watch it on it's own to pick up the skill in the first place?

I looked @ HSI last week - actually, CanOz showed me. Looks like a tough game DOM wise.


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## Trembling Hand

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*



dionysustoast said:


> Most do - but do you not think you need to watch it on it's own to pick up the skill in the first place?




Personally I think you need to know what pattern/s or type of market or even why/when you want to trade then just use the DOM to see them develop. Rather than wait for them to show up on your chart and react after they have printed and started to move.

From time to time you can see bots operating, not just arb bots but ones that will move the market significantly across the day. But I wouldn't be basing my trading career around that. I'd try and find an approach that makes sense, not like H & S patterns or Breakouts etc. Something that shows up in your market, in the timeframe you watch and makes sense. Then go about finding how that develops in the DOM and use the DOM to get an advantageous entry and exit.


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## Trembling Hand

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*

Classic DOM pattern of a false break just then. Will come back latter to post a chart.


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## Trembling Hand

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*



Trembling Hand said:


> Classic DOM pattern of a false break just then. Will come back latter to post a chart.




Ok here was a ripper. I mostly just fade...... everything 

So we had a strong up trust on volume to new daily highs then a pull back and a drift up to the highs again where I got short at 1. It started to go my way then all of a sudden the offers above my entry cleared out and what was there got hit very quickly, including by me who moved it to a new high in a sweep at the very start of the 1 min bar. It looked like a setup for a *big *sweep and serious breakout. I covered at a small loss, at 2, what turned out to be the high for the day . BUT right after that the Book just got stuffed big time with offers cascading down at each price level so I hit out again and got short with extra size at 3. literally 6 seconds later.

Have a look at how the bar finished. Then have a look at where you would of entered if looking at the chart, 20 ticks lower. Then that was the same game at the test...

up trend all over. ripper!!


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## CanOz

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*

Nice, appreciate the illustration TH. I think i got stopped out trying to fade the spike....then i got long thinking...'what are doing fading the trend like this??'

CanOz


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## Trembling Hand

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*



CanOz said:


> Nice, appreciate the illustration TH. I think i got stopped out trying to fade the spike....then i got long thinking...'what are doing fading the trend like this??'
> 
> CanOz




So my point is I know what chart setup I'm looking for to fade. I used the DOM action to re-enter that setup at a very tight stop level that greatly helped my R:R. Thats what I reckon the DOM is for.


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## History Repeats

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*

good post Trembling Hand. Also it seems i'm on the right track with my research, in regards to using the tape to reduce entry/exit risk.


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## CanOz

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*

I got into this trade because price came down and tagged the MA again, but i stayed in the trade because of the iceberg that appeared on the bid after i had been in for a few minutes. Had 3 contracts, took two off and let the third run...until just before lunch.

CanOz


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## CanOz

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*

Its been a little quiet the last hour or so on the K200 so i wandered over to honkers for a look. Its the first time for a couple of days that I've looked at it. Now that I've been trading the DAX and CL more, I'm starting to be able to see where the pressure is. For example the HSI had just retraced a little off 19178. A big lot hit 19204 so i started watching for it to break lower. Slowly the offers got 'heavy'. Then they were reluctant to drop down to the bid, just hanging there almost saying 'come up here and buy some!", several points higher...they wanted to sell higher. After they did that for a while the price dropped and the bids got thinner as we went down. This was happening really slowly, as far as the HSI goes. 

So some of things i now look for in the DOM, that I've learned only over the last couple of weeks really, are:

1.) Icebergs - constant refreshing on the inside bid or ask. Looks like the opposite on the Tape, but keeps getting refreshed. Need to see how the depth reacts to this before just taking a position most of the time.

2.) Whether or not the size on the depth is sticking or not. Are they just spoofing or are they serious and not budging? If they are not budging on the offer, as an example... then the depth should appear 'heavy' on the offer, and refuses to lift very far. The limit orders just keep filling in and few get pulled. Once there are no more buyers prepared to hit the offer the price drops, if the bid starts pulling their bids off quickly it may drop another level.

3.) One of the most valuable things I've learned this week is how long to stay in a trade. I try and use a measured type of move to estimate where i can expect to exit. This doesn't always work though, so I'll keep an eye on the depth. if they're pulling, trying to get thier orders out of the way, or the depth seems thin, then I'll stay in. If the depth thickens up then I'll start to think about an exit soon. Otherwise i will try and stay in to the measured move. I'm trading one lot today, but multiple contracts are really the only ay to trade as you can leave one on for a runner, in case you exit too early and the trade carry's on. 

4.) I think i now have enough confidence to trade single lots next week on the K200 and CL. This is only to get used to making decision with real money on the line.

5.) I've also set up my hot keys to hit the bid and offer, not just grab at market. This makes a difference, I'm not sure why i didn't see that before...doh!

Appreciate any constructive feedback. I hope those that are interested in this stuff are learning something from my experience. There seems to be so few good, willing teachers, although the ones we have on this site have been very generous.

If i do manage to learn this and be profitable. I would love to give free lessons. I think that would be the best way to give back. 

This is quite exciting to learn, but very frustrating at times. I now know why there are times when the patterns on the chart failed so often. I cannot imagine trying to trade off the charts alone now. It would be like driving by looking out over a very long bonnet!

Thanks TH, and Joules...for all your tips so far. If there is anyone following that doesn't understand some of the terms then let me know. Also, if anyone would like to have a look. I can share my screen on Skype and show you what I'm seeing, one at a time though i think. I could do this tomorrow, once the wife gets a bit better.

Cheers,


CanOz


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## Trembling Hand

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*



CanOz said:


> 3.) One of the most valuable things I've learned this week is how long to stay in a trade. I try and use a measured type of move to estimate where i can expect to exit. This doesn't always work though, so I'll keep an eye on the depth. if they're pulling, trying to get thier orders out of the way, or the depth seems thin, then I'll stay in. If the depth thickens up then I'll start to think about an exit soon. Otherwise i will try and stay in to the measured move. I'm trading one lot today, but multiple contracts are really the only ay to trade as you can leave one on for a runner, in case you exit too early and the trade carry's on.




Just on this one. You need to make sure you are not going to limit your 5-10 R winners by bailing just because you come up against a little volume. To get the really big winners you almost always need to hold through a few pull backs. I mean how else do we get high volume? only way is that theres lots in the order book not only being hit but being refreshed. Its the move after the heavy hits thats counts.


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## CanOz

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*



Trembling Hand said:


> Just on this one. You need to make sure you are not going to limit your 5-10 R winners by bailing just because you come up against a little volume. To get the really big winners you almost always need to hold through a few pull backs. I mean how else do we get high volume? only way is that theres lots in the order book not only being hit but being refreshed. Its the move after the heavy hits thats counts.
> 
> View attachment 47667




Yeah that's a great point. Although i think its important for me to take profits at first, to build confidence. Also, i like getting back in on those pullbacks, its good practice for me. By keeping focused i should be able to develop the confidence to stay in or at least be able to trade multiples and take one off at the top and leave one in for that pullback, is that what you do? 

You just need to understand that letting a winning trade turn into a loser is very damaging on the confidence. I need to figure out a way to keep building confidence while not exiting too early. I sense that you have stronger emotional fortitude than i, so you have heart to stick it through. For me, 90% of applying this is confidence.

Great points though TH, thank you!

CanOz


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## Trembling Hand

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*



CanOz said:


> Yeah that's a great point. Although i think its important for me to take profits at first, to build confidence. Also, i like getting back in on those pullbacks, its good practice for me. By keeping focused i should be able to develop the confidence to stay in or at least be able to trade multiples and take one off at the top and leave one in for that pullback, is that what you do?




Chatting to the prop dudes yesterday about how to move even more volume. Here is their advice,

"When you have a good idea and a trade comes back against you and all you want to do is just spew it up the *only *thing you should do is hit out and double up"

LOL pressure!! :microwave


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## Joules MM1

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*



Trembling Hand said:


> Chatting to the prop dudes yesterday about how to move even more volume. Here is their advice,
> 
> "When you have a good idea and a trade comes back against you and all you want to do is just spew it up the *only *thing you should do is hit out and double up"
> 
> LOL pressure!! :microwave





that one i used to have real challenges with.....then i moved onto waiting longer and accepting more points loss on lower position size until i'd replayed all those moves that i didnt read in real time.......eventually i have moved to adding to the pullback and even tho i sometimes get hit the longer i've waited the better the results.....i'll especially add on smacks that are just wrong......i can see news smacks, those diff for sure, but smart-rse smacks, you get to read those plays......

i think replaying the moves afterwards is vital.....it sounds babble, but, replay once youve worked each bar in context and relative place .......must admit, hard to keep out of the patterning trap

great thread


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## CanOz

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*



Trembling Hand said:


> Chatting to the prop dudes yesterday about how to move even more volume. Here is their advice,
> 
> "When you have a good idea and a trade comes back against you and all you want to do is just spew it up the *only *thing you should do is hit out and double up"
> 
> LOL pressure!! :microwave




Yeah, i can understand why they want guys like you that have a ton of experience + confidence and are at a level where you could respond positively from that advice. 

Good luck with that!

CanOz


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## CanOz

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*



Joules MM1 said:


> i think replaying the moves afterwards is vital.....it sounds babble, but, replay once youve worked each bar in context and relative place .......




Agree, and i will get that recorder installed today or tomorrow!

CanOz


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## CanOz

*Re: Scalping the HSI (SIM)*

Far out, i just got into this huge sh*t fight at the HOD on the K200:shoot::badass:, thinking it would pop...instead i just got chopped up:fan. 

How do you stay out of these? It hit the high and then the bergs piled on :bricks1:and drove it back, this happened several times but the bulls wouldn't give up. I should have realized it wouldn't work as there was a ton of R above the high anyway. I got short as it broke low with gusto and made it all back with a 5 lot...Also, being close to the end of the day i should have realized there would be plenty of profit takers and those that would fade it...any other ways to avoid this? Wait for a pullback after the high has been broken or just don't try and buy that mess before the the high?

Cheers,


CanOz


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## dazers

Can I ask about what kind of setup you have that allows you to simulate scalping trades with market depth? How much does it cost?

Also what attracted you to trade the HSI, is it not notoriously difficult and unpredictable?


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## CanOz

dazers said:


> Can I ask about what kind of setup you have that allows you to simulate scalping trades with market depth? How much does it cost?
> 
> Also what attracted you to trade the HSI, is it not notoriously difficult and unpredictable?




I'm using NinjaTrader with Interactive Brokers. NT cost about a 1000 USD or you can lease. It may be free to sim with, check their site www.ninjatrader,com

There are some data fees if you don't actually trade, but their negligible depending on how many and what  markets you want data for.

The HSI is a mess  :screwy:  and i don't understand how TH does it, he must be special...:bowdown:

Pick a thicker market so you can learn what the heck is going on in the auction process first.

CanOz


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## Trembling Hand

dazers said:


> Can I ask about what kind of setup you have that allows you to simulate scalping trades with market depth? How much does it cost?



Cheapest way is open an IB account and pay like $10 a month for the data (Honkers, Korea is free) and use Ninja trader which is free to sim.



dazers said:


> Also what attracted you to trade the HSI, is it not notoriously difficult and unpredictable?




Huh?

EDIT: LOL at CanOz and I!!! :samurai:


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## boofis

dazers said:


> Can I ask about what kind of setup you have that allows you to simulate scalping trades with market depth? How much does it cost?




CanOz is right, NT is free to lease you just have to pay when you want to start executing real trades. If you don't have an IB account (and don't have the 10k min. to be able to open one) then there's plenty of intraday data providers which you can sign on for a month and try e.g. eSignal, kinetick etc. If you can though, best way is IB.


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## boofis

May aswell pick up where CanOz left off. Am back trading this chasing r:r and am over night shifts. 
Stats for the morning.


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## waza1960

Great stats if you keep that up your a hero lol


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## boofis

Haha, a long time before my fate is sealed yet


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## Trembling Hand

boofis said:


> Stats for the morning.




They look exactly like mine......... except upside down!!


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## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> They look exactly like mine......... except upside down!!




Hmmm kospi drops through previous higher lows and seng pumps up through previous lower highs. Didn't realise they could diverge like that! 

Haha, I'm already dreading the drawdown when my stats are upside down TH


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## Trembling Hand

boofis said:


> Haha, I'm already dreading the drawdown when my stats are upside down TH




F me, days plays out exactly as I figured and look at this!!!!!




Just another day in paradise!


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## CanOz

Trembling Hand said:


> F me, days plays out exactly as I figured and look at this!!!!!
> 
> View attachment 52159
> 
> 
> Just another day in paradise!




Days like that must be exhausting....


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## Trembling Hand

CanOz said:


> Days like that must be exhausting....




Yep rather tiring..... :crap:

:drink:


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## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> Yep rather tiring..... :crap:
> 
> :drink:




You still got someone else easing the cost of those buyqty/sellqty columns or you a free and wild man these days?


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## Trembling Hand

Prop isn't much cheaper than IBs volume discount rate.


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## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> Prop isn't much cheaper than IBs volume discount rate.




Interesting. It definitely is for aus bonds paying $10 a rt, another big reason why I'm back with the seng.


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## skc

Trembling Hand said:


> F me, days plays out exactly as I figured and look at this!!!!!
> 
> View attachment 52159
> 
> 
> Just another day in paradise!




The HSI is HKD $50 a tick? So you are doing ~200x 23000 x $HKD 50 x 2 = $HKD460m a day, or ~$A60m volume? Doesn't sound like you are too far from doing $1b a month...

I do hope you are aiming for higher profitability!


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## Trembling Hand

skc said:


> I do hope you are aiming for higher profitability!




I'm just happy if my broker can afford a new fully optioned Porsche each year. (which he will very soon)


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## boofis

The stats......



The review...

GOOD 
*Original trade idea was right.
*Readjusted risk and target levels during quiet periods. 
*Over traded but did manage to put the brakes on and not go crazy.

Bad
*Doubted original trade idea and flipped wrongly for no valid reason. 
*Overtraded once I had a couple of losses. 
*Wasn't initiating trades as I saw them, was hesitant. 
*Started to close profitable trades too early with no confirmation.


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## boofis

Morning results

IB doesn't seem to have anything to display stats about trades so all you're gonna get is the total number of trades and total in HKD sorry. 


GOOD
*Didn't over trade
*Read the play right
*Didn't get squeezed out

BAD
*Didn't hit back in for the long move; too cautious after securing profit

Summary of trades: first trade picked up all the ticks, 2nd trade got stopped at B/E.


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## Trembling Hand

boofis said:


> Morning results
> 
> IB doesn't seem to have anything to display stats about trades so all you're gonna get is the total number of trades and total in HKD sorry.




If you pay for NT you can still trade with IBs book trader and NT picks up the trades and keeps the stats.


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## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> If you pay for NT you can still trade with IBs book trader and NT picks up the trades and keeps the stats.




Shhhh, don't tell NT I'm still a free user.


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## boofis

Arvo session goals:
*Take notes on how it behaves with euro openings and these new ETH. 
*Reassess levels and expectations on busy vs quiet times.


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## boofis

.....Missed the start of that cause NT and IB stopped communicating, and was still able to take 40 ticks.

Still don't get how the asian markets move relative to each other. HSI drops a 170 points, Kospi stays flat just ticking away lol.

" Its the move after the heavy hits thats counts." Waiting....


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## CanOz

Meanwhile a dropped 668 HKD on the mini trying to catch that falling knife....400 was brokerage...enuf of that, need more screen time and more setups before i try that again


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## boofis

TH, or any other thin market traders, care to chime in on working positions. UP to this point I haven't been adding to a trade that goes against me just cause it's what I learnt through Radge but he's primarily focused on long term equities rather than bullet like futs.


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## Trembling Hand

boofis said:


> TH, or any other thin market traders, care to chime in on working positions. UP to this point I haven't been adding to a trade that goes against me just cause it's what I learnt through Radge but he's primarily focused on long term equities rather than bullet like futs.




Its not thats its thin - its that its fast. When its doing nothing its easy to add position. but when its moving its very hard. I just make a decision to enter and hit out, mostly as much as I can get while its still a good R:R. If it runs away without me I just steam and move on. If it goes against me I normally haven't got much more to add. 

So F knows....


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## boofis

Good to know mate, appreciate the input. A sloppy click of the mouse ( as I did on my 2nd trade) and lost a good 10 ticks purely cause I wanted to make sure I got a fill doh, so I think I'll set the hot keys up.


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## Trembling Hand

Boy she is wild and woolly today. My P& L swings are like Wayne Swans budget projections.....


Positive... nah... negative... hold-on.. positive... nah negative!!...


----------



## boofis

Haha, I've put the gun back in its holster to save on ammo  

Are there any asian markets one can actually spread against, it doesn't seem like anything has enough of a correlation to anything else one would just end up in the red on two positions lol.


----------



## sinner

boofis said:


> Haha, I've put the gun back in its holster to save on ammo
> 
> Are there any asian markets one can actually spread against, it doesn't seem like anything has enough of a correlation to anything else one would just end up in the red on two positions lol.




Spread the top 4 stocks in the index against the index.


----------



## CanOz

sinner said:


> Spread the top 4 stocks in the index against the index.




Yeah, there's an idea....i think you can trade HK equities with IB and the tops four stocks must be a huge portion of the index...


----------



## Trembling Hand

sinner said:


> Spread the top 4 stocks in the index against the index.




I was collecting the data for a few months on the 44 stocks and the HSI. Stats strangely vary greatly from day to day but most def the stocks lag the index moves, especially at the extremes.

In the end I didn't bother doing anything........ seemed too much like .......work!!


----------



## sinner

Trembling Hand said:


> I was collecting the data for a few months on the 44 stocks and the HSI. Stats strangely vary greatly from day to day but most def the stocks lag the index moves, especially at the extremes.
> 
> In the end I didn't bother doing anything........ seemed too much like .......work!!




Isn't that exactly what you'd want? If they move too closely together then the spread is no good for trading. The lag (especially at extremes!) is whats providing you with opportunities to spread that have an R:R worth taking.

I suggested the top 4 top stocks mostly for simplicity, didn't want to get into a long technical thing about it, but you can do this really easily with a bit of programming:

1. Each day build 11, 4 stock portfolios from the index universe (equal weight to each stock).
2. Rank the portfolios based on their intraday cointegration scores for the last N days. Need to figure out the sweetspot but my guess is N=3~5 is probably good.
3. Trade the best ranking portfolio as the other leg of your spread for the day. You may wish to apply a hedge ratio based on volatility or whatever to either leg.

Once you've got a simple algorithm like this you can build on it to generate portfolios which aren't equal weight, etc to fine tune cointegration rankings.


----------



## Trembling Hand

sinner said:


> Isn't that exactly what you'd want? If they move too closely together then the spread is no good for trading. The lag (especially at extremes!) is whats providing you with opportunities to spread that have an R:R worth taking.




What I mean is the spread between the futs and the cash index constituents varied greatly. So it made it hard to see how one would take entry signals when 1 day the spread would be 15 points avg diff the next day 35. 



sinner said:


> I suggested the top 4 top stocks mostly for simplicity, didn't want to get into a long technical thing about it, but you can do this really easily with a bit of programming:
> 
> 1. Each day build 11, 4 stock portfolios from the index universe (equal weight to each stock).
> 2. Rank the portfolios based on their intraday cointegration scores for the last N days. Need to figure out the sweetspot but my guess is N=3~5 is probably good.
> 3. Trade the best ranking portfolio as the other leg of your spread for the day. You may wish to apply a hedge ratio based on volatility or whatever to either leg.
> 
> Once you've got a simple algorithm like this you can build on it to generate portfolios which aren't equal weight, etc to fine tune cointegration rankings.




Like I said...  too much work..:


----------



## boofis

sinner said:


> Isn't that exactly what you'd want? If they move too closely together then the spread is no good for trading. The lag (especially at extremes!) is whats providing you with opportunities to spread that have an R:R worth taking.
> 
> I suggested the top 4 top stocks mostly for simplicity, didn't want to get into a long technical thing about it, but you can do this really easily with a bit of programming:
> 
> 1. Each day build 11, 4 stock portfolios from the index universe (equal weight to each stock).
> 2. Rank the portfolios based on their intraday cointegration scores for the last N days. Need to figure out the sweetspot but my guess is N=3~5 is probably good.
> 3. Trade the best ranking portfolio as the other leg of your spread for the day. You may wish to apply a hedge ratio based on volatility or whatever to either leg.
> 
> Once you've got a simple algorithm like this you can build on it to generate portfolios which aren't equal weight, etc to fine tune cointegration rankings.




Prob just easiest for me to spread against the MHI considering I'm not dropping 100 lots like the big fella above  though the mhi concept wouldn't scale beyond 2 contracts prob so really not even worth starting....square 1 lol.


----------



## sinner

Trembling Hand said:


> What I mean is the spread between the futs and the cash index constituents varied greatly. So it made it hard to see how one would take entry signals when 1 day the spread would be 15 points avg diff the next day 35.




That is always one of the major risks when it comes to any mean reversion bet, that your timeseries becomes nonstationary or the bounds of stationarity change too quickly to be usefully predictable.

You can use Hurst exponents, or much more practically, an approximation thereof (like the one proposed below), to determine when it's appropriate to bet on mean reversion.

Dubovikov and others. Dimension of the Minimal Cover and Local Analysis of Fractal Time Series, 2004
http://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/2004/2004_Dubovikov_etal.pdf

(I have found the variation index as proposed in the paper to be quite useful way of calculating approximate Hurst exponents without significant computation required compared to the exponents themselves)


----------



## boofis

So we had one 8 tick winner on the k200 open followed by 1 tick winner and then a Stop loss hit of 4 ticks and then a scratch. 
Had one good trade on the MHI followed by a 15 tick stop out trying to fade but I was too early and ambitious, followed by a 1 tick winner (scratch lol). 

Trying to employ patience and longevity of account while slowly adding to the trade ideas and implicit knowledge of how these two behave.


----------



## boofis

DAX and Seng, what's leading/lagging which one to where and what outcome :dunno: The arvo session is still sim territory for me.


----------



## Trembling Hand

boofis said:


> DAX and Seng, what's leading/lagging which one to where and what outcome.




Thats not the way to think about.

More to the point. Thats not the way to frame a trade. Too reactionary.


----------



## boofis

Point taken. 

Need more time on arvo to figure something out then, morning currently makes sense. Arvo currently gets me... To the bat cave of NT to practise!


----------



## skyQuake

sinner said:


> Dubovikov and others. Dimension of the Minimal Cover and Local Analysis of Fractal Time Series, 2004
> http://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/2004/2004_Dubovikov_etal.pdf
> 
> (I have found the variation index as proposed in the paper to be quite useful way of calculating approximate Hurst exponents without significant computation required compared to the exponents themselves)




Cheers! Looks like a decent approximation.

P.S. I have also discovered showing a chart to any 5 year old to be a fairly effective method as well.


----------



## boofis

So with closed asian markets what does one do but...market replay! 







That's market replay x10 speed, the open of the kospi until Hang seng opens and then till hang seng lunch close. 
Desperately easy to take the bait and over trade the seng on fast replay; helps one learn to filter out the noise and also note where it appears people are trying to trigger stops or make others puke. 

A piece of advice I was given that I'm working on lately regarding closing a position: If you were closing out a 1000 lot after making a profitable trade (This was in regards to super liquid markets) would you close it out knowing that you could push the price right back against you just because you were feeling the pressure/excitement of profit and wanted to close it out even though you hadn't seen any reason in the market to suggest the play was over? 

So to hold or not to hold that is the question...and to hold is the answer lol. When in profit doubt, hold...until you see a reason to exit.


----------



## boofis

After overtrading the first replay session this morning I thought I'd play with a wider stop and take less trades. Worked out rather well. There seems to be alot of opportunities for people with tight stops to be squeezed out and also fake reversals once a trade is set in motion.


----------



## boofis




----------



## boofis

So the market replays have helped in developing expectations of what will probably happen in certain time periods. On the open of K200 it's about getting a position with the direction as it usually opens with a couple large range bars. Then around 10:40 through till 11 the inclination is to fade any false breaks as ranging is pretty common before HSI open. 
On the HSI after 150~200 tick move start looking for turn around; can be dangerous if you jump too early (as indicated by my stats, had 4 goes at fading what I thought was the end of the move but stopped out each time for something like an 80 tick drawdown which wouldn't be pleasant when trading live). Hard to describe in words but the order book seems to have an up up down up up down almost rhythm to it before a break long, guess it's from buyers starting to pick up the market but not spook it too much before they get their fills. 
The wishy washy action after the havoc of open seems like a time of day to keep the hand off the mouse unless it's generally wandering along in an established direction which seems ok just to roll along with.


----------



## boofis

The arvo session recorded data.




Tightened the stop up while only trying to play for 'home runs', which shows the outcome of such a specific attitude; far less winning trades, the one big r:r at 10 ticks risked 80 ticks profit and the rest just losing trades.


----------



## boofis

The aim of this session was to fade false breaks K200 during specific times. 1 min green and red bars side by side with nearly the same range, good chance to make the most of people not taking into account the context of price.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

How are you recording the data? 

I have the recording thing turned on but I'm trying to play it back now and it's not playing it back properly, its showing candles on the chart but not moving, just showing 0:00 on the candle countdown too. Nothing shows up at all for HSI, only for Dax and CL for some reason, p!ssing me off. Hate these sorts of problems with NT.

And I can't see any stats for the trades that I do make on CL because I have no choice to trade anything else lol. JOY.


----------



## boofis

ThingyMajiggy said:


> How are you recording the data?
> 
> I have the recording thing turned on but I'm trying to play it back now and it's not playing it back properly, its showing candles on the chart but not moving, just showing 0:00 on the candle countdown too. Nothing shows up at all for HSI, only for Dax and CL for some reason, p!ssing me off. Hate these sorts of problems with NT.
> 
> And I can't see any stats for the trades that I do make on CL because I have no choice to trade anything else lol. JOY.




Just make sure you've ticked the box that says record data for market replay and then put the instruments you want to record into an instrument manager list (for me K200 and HSI) and then make sure you have charts open for each while the markets are open and it will be recorded. I have the jigsaw tools attached to each chart so that's the only way I know the bid ask stuff is coming through and being recorded.

You can check what data you have available by right clicking on the little box that has play/pause etc. and going into the subcategory of available data.  

Occasionally I get the problem where it doesn't pull stats for trades during replay so I just shut down ninja and restart (lol, the dummy solution to all things computer) and it usually picks it up fine then. 

What are you trading these days Sam?


----------



## waza1960

> How are you recording the data?




 Big Mikes forum has some replay data which you can download but nothing that recent though.


----------



## boofis

waza1960 said:


> Big Mikes forum has some replay data which you can download but nothing that recent though.




 
Am happy to send anyone the data files I have aswell if that will be of any use.


----------



## havaiana

boofis said:


> Occasionally I get the problem where it doesn't pull stats for trades during replay so I just shut down ninja and restart (lol, the dummy solution to all things computer) and it usually picks it up fine then.




Next time try going into the trade executions tab (not the one in trader performance, the main one). Then go back to trader performance and stats should now work. Used to do the trick for me anyway


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

boofis said:


> Just make sure you've ticked the box that says record data for market replay and then put the instruments you want to record into an instrument manager list (for me K200 and HSI) and then make sure you have charts open for each while the markets are open and it will be recorded. I have the jigsaw tools attached to each chart so that's the only way I know the bid ask stuff is coming through and being recorded.
> 
> You can check what data you have available by right clicking on the little box that has play/pause etc. and going into the subcategory of available data.
> 
> Occasionally I get the problem where it doesn't pull stats for trades during replay so I just shut down ninja and restart (lol, the dummy solution to all things computer) and it usually picks it up fine then.
> 
> What are you trading these days Sam?




Yeah I have that ticked, didn't realise whatever you wanted to record had to be open though so that's probably the problem haha. 

Ahh just simming for me these days, don't have the funds to trade live which sucks but ah well, sim GOD here I come lol. I usually have a crack on HSI, DAX, maybe CL........Yes I like my fast markets, probably shouldn't though because I mainly like them because they keep me interested, which isn't a reason to trade something. 

Also keen on programming, mainly some python,  but currently have no idea how to get an idea from my head to code, which programs to use to do that etc. and where to get data blah blah blah, so just investigating that, but would like to try some coding to play around with some systems. 

Where do you put recorded data that you download? If I could grab some off you that'd be awesome!


----------



## Trembling Hand

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Where do you put recorded data that you download? If I could grab some off you that'd be awesome!




it is normally kept here,

C:\Users\YOUR_NAME\Documents\NinjaTrader 7\db


HAHA! I just check and I have 14 G of it!!  How much simming do you want to do.....


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

Trembling Hand said:


> it is normally kept here,
> 
> C:\Users\YOUR_NAME\Documents\NinjaTrader 7\db
> 
> 
> HAHA! I just check and I have 14 G of it!!  How much simming do you want to do.....




 14G! When does that go back to?


----------



## Trembling Hand

ThingyMajiggy said:


> 14G! When does that go back to?




05-06 I would guess....................


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

Trembling Hand said:


> 05-06 I would guess....................




Haha that's awesome, can I bring my hard drive to your place?


----------



## Trembling Hand

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Haha that's awesome, can I bring my hard drive to your place?




Yeah any time. Long trip though on the postie


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

Trembling Hand said:


> Yeah any time. Long trip though on the postie




I'd be up for it, they ride from WA to the east coast on those things, might need an ar$e transplant after but still  14G of Honkers data is the prize lol


----------



## Trembling Hand

It would be for all these markets from early Asia to mid morning Euro ses for 7 years!


----------



## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> it is normally kept here,
> 
> C:\Users\YOUR_NAME\Documents\NinjaTrader 7\db
> 
> 
> HAHA! I just check and I have 14 G of it!!  How much simming do you want to do.....




Ermmm, *says in the most polite voice possible* Excuse me Sir Dr. Mr. TH, would I be able to pur-chase some of that 14g of data off you?.... seriously


----------



## boofis

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Yeah I have that ticked, didn't realise whatever you wanted to record had to be open though so that's probably the problem haha.
> 
> Ahh just simming for me these days, don't have the funds to trade live which sucks but ah well, sim GOD here I come lol. I usually have a crack on HSI, DAX, maybe CL........Yes I like my fast markets, probably shouldn't though because I mainly like them because they keep me interested, which isn't a reason to trade something.
> 
> Also keen on programming, mainly some python,  but currently have no idea how to get an idea from my head to code, which programs to use to do that etc. and where to get data blah blah blah, so just investigating that, but would like to try some coding to play around with some systems.
> 
> Where do you put recorded data that you download? If I could grab some off you that'd be awesome!




What platforms use python Sam? Pm me if you want some resources for NT coding.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

boofis said:


> What platforms use python Sam? Pm me if you want some resources for NT coding.




No idea, that's what I want to find out. I just know Python the best, and have heard/seen it's used a fair bit in finance/trading, so just sussing out what it's used for and how. 

I would also seriously like some data TH


----------



## SuperGlue

ThingyMajiggy said:


> No idea, that's what I want to find out. I just know Python the best, and have heard/seen it's used a fair bit in finance/trading, so just sussing out what it's used for and how.
> 
> I would also seriously like some data TH





Try googling "AFL to Python COM Link" or if you have Amibroker search for Python.

My niece was at one time interested in Python, that is the only link to Amibroker that I know of.


----------



## Trembling Hand

ThingyMajiggy said:


> No idea, that's what I want to find out. I just know Python the best, and have heard/seen it's used a fair bit in finance/trading, so just sussing out what it's used for and how.
> 
> I would also seriously like some data TH






boofis said:


> Ermmm, *says in the most polite voice possible* Excuse me Sir Dr. Mr. TH, would I be able to pur-chase some of that 14g of data off you?.... seriously




boofis you in Melbourne? I can put it on a data stick, you come and get it, the cost will be postage to Sam.


----------



## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> boofis you in Melbourne? I can put it on a data stick, you come and get it, the cost will be postage to Sam.




Certainly am, that'd be perfect and I'd be happy to post one to Sam as well, it's always appreciated when the Jedis are willing to help the padawans


----------



## boofis

On a trading note, I'm one trade off the k200 daily stop after a poorly played open.  Being overly keen to trade got me


----------



## boofis

Is there a quick way to change the Order quantity on IB's book trader? I've just been changing default size but it's too slow when you only want to take off 1 ctr or something similar etc and that stupid time remaining until auto-recentering box can get in the way and it roots it all up.


----------



## Trembling Hand

boofis said:


> Is there a quick way to change the Order quantity on IB's book trader? I've just been changing default size but it's too slow when you only want to take off 1 ctr or something similar




You need to set up a hot key.



boofis said:


> that stupid time remaining until auto-recentering box can get in the way and it roots it all up.




Somewhere there is a box to tick to get rid of that.


----------



## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> You need to set up a hot key.
> 
> 
> 
> Somewhere there is a box to tick to get rid of that.




Cheers! I'll get onto it.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

Sounds good re data, let me know when/method of payment


----------



## boofis

Well, that was definitely a case of trying to overcorrect a car that was out of control. I tried a 3 push to a high then fade on the seng and got eaten, then after about 200 points one way I faded for a trade that started green and ended up hitting my stop when it went through so I reversed position and held my only profitable trade for the morning on the seng long to new highs. 
Definitely underestimated the impetus that new highs brought in. 
K200 was just silly mistakes. Started the day with a poor trade, then flip to get on board only to have it immediately retrace again and stop me out, and far more large range bars than I have been trading sim and live so I got caught out. Still haven't hit the daily stop but am in the red.


----------



## boofis

The mornings results. No BS talk here, I post up the good and the bad  lol


----------



## havaiana

Boofis i see you are doing all the stuff TH has suggested in his posts which helped me alot. Another thing i would suggest is trade a couple of sessions with 1:1 profit target/stop. Just let all the trades play out. This way you will see if your entries are better/worse than random. You can make some adjustments and find an edge here or improve the edge you already have. The feedback is clear bcause you are either winning more than 50% of trades or you're not. Then when you manage the trades (cut losses let winners run) your edge becomes bigger again.


----------



## tech/a

havaiana said:


> Boofis i see you are doing all the stuff TH has suggested in his posts which helped me alot. Another thing i would suggest is trade a couple of sessions with 1:1 profit target/stop. Just let all the trades play out. This way you will see if your entries are better/worse than random. You can make some adjustments and find an edge here or improve the edge you already have. The feedback is clear bcause you are either winning more than 50% of trades or you're not. Then when you manage the trades (cut losses let winners run) your edge becomes bigger again.




Good suggestion.


----------



## boofis

havaiana said:


> Boofis i see you are doing all the stuff TH has suggested in his posts which helped me alot. Another thing i would suggest is trade a couple of sessions with 1:1 profit target/stop. Just let all the trades play out. This way you will see if your entries are better/worse than random. You can make some adjustments and find an edge here or improve the edge you already have. The feedback is clear bcause you are either winning more than 50% of trades or you're not. Then when you manage the trades (cut losses let winners run) your edge becomes bigger again.




Yeah I can regrettably say straight up that entries are the worst part of my game. 
Will give that a crack on some sim sessions and keep refining, thanks for the input. 
On the Kospi sim this morning to play with a few more ideas for trading the open.


----------



## boofis

Such low range and volume at present. This feels unfamiliar/new, going to jump on sim and play around a bit.


----------



## CanOz

havaiana said:


> Boofis i see you are doing all the stuff TH has suggested in his posts which helped me alot. Another thing i would suggest is trade a couple of sessions with 1:1 profit target/stop. Just let all the trades play out. This way you will see if your entries are better/worse than random. You can make some adjustments and find an edge here or improve the edge you already have. The feedback is clear bcause you are either winning more than 50% of trades or you're not. Then when you manage the trades (cut losses let winners run) your edge becomes bigger again.




Agree, this is a great way to see if you have an edge better than 50/50.

CanOz


----------



## boofis

Hmm wouldn't mind a bit of discussion on this one. 

In regards to content taught by Radge, the basic expectancy curve and the mutually exclusive win/loss ratio vs. win percentage. One can't have both a high win percentage as well as a large win/loss ratio, so could this proposed exercise turn into a chase for the holy grail? I'm on the seng expecting a fairly average win percentage because I'm trying to match market to method and catch 50+ tick moves (not necessarily 150+, just moves more significant than scalping territory of which I do in the arvo/nights).

As the old english teacher says, "discuss".


----------



## havaiana

The 1:1 R:R is simply to find a way to enter the market with a slight edge. When you have found that edge you stop trading 1:1. When you start cutting losses and letting profits run to increase your R:R I would expect that the win rate will reduce, but you still know that you have that edge on your entry (your trade is more likely to go in your favour x pips than against you x pips).


----------



## boofis

Alright! Am hopefully back trading this week after a short hiatus to do some jobs in the real world : 

Spending alot of time on the market replays trying to internalise different scenarios and 'patterns'. Is there a way to make the HSI contract continuous? The ###-### doesn't seem to work when using replay (haven't tried it live). 

Finding it easier to trade 2 contracts and drop one off on the first instance of a pullback. Also seemingly easier to ride the long moves on sped up sim because the blocks of 10 and 20 mins where the price just wallows about go alot faster when you're at x10 lol. So will have to be conscious of this when trading real time again, patience through non action times of the market. 





I am playing with the concept of noting 'messy' areas on the way through a trend and then fading them when it pulls back. My last trade worked perfectly doing that, got the fill nearly right on the red line (around 23 095) and then got out for a short trade to compliment the big winner.


----------



## boofis

Learning note * When a string of losers is starting to develop, stop and reassess. Easy to get frustrated and flip and reverse.


----------



## boofis

Damn, arvo session killed me.


----------



## boofis

I haven't showed much potential on choppy range days yet. Stacking around levels seems to just get me stopped out so I'm not sure if I'll loosen the stop or just try something else.




Things to note: much smaller holding time (hasn't ever shown to be a good thing in my results yet lol) and a bigger number of trades.

*Idea: when things start to shape up like I'm being tossed about with poor decisions in choppiness, then jump over predominantly to the 5min and take fewer signals waiting for turning points on it rather than the 1 min. See how it goes.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

Are you keeping an overall record, as in total trades and overall win/loss data etc? 

Thinking of keeping a tally of 1000 trades or something when I start doing this, maybe keep doing blocks of 1000 trades and changing small things until I find what is causing my problems, rather than just a session at a time. 

Keep it up


----------



## boofis

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Are you keeping an overall record, as in total trades and overall win/loss data etc?
> 
> Thinking of keeping a tally of 1000 trades or something when I start doing this, maybe keep doing blocks of 1000 trades and changing small things until I find what is causing my problems, rather than just a session at a time.
> 
> Keep it up




Hmmm I've been keeping an overall record for my live stuff but haven't really for replay cause on ninja everytime you do a session then go back in time it erases the records of that session I've just done. SOOooo I like the idea, and might check out what I can do about it. 

Thanks mate!


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

boofis said:


> Hmmm I've been keeping an overall record for my live stuff but haven't really for replay cause on ninja everytime you do a session then go back in time it erases the records of that session I've just done. SOOooo I like the idea, and might check out what I can do about it.
> 
> Thanks mate!




Yeah wondered if it did that or not, I was thinking just screenshot it when you're done at the end and put it into an excel spreadsheet or something to keep a total tally


----------



## boofis

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Yeah wondered if it did that or not, I was thinking just screenshot it when you're done at the end and put it into an excel spreadsheet or something to keep a total tally




Yeah spose I could go back through this thread and put the stats in but that seems like alot of work also lol. 

I might just do replay in month blocks now and work forward for the month, that should solve the issue.

Facepalm of the morning: configuring Booktrader.


----------



## boofis

Question to anyone who might be able to answer it:

I've got my default order size set to 2 ctr on MHI, and I've put a button decrease order size by 1 on the Booktrader buttons section, but it doesn't work


----------



## Trembling Hand

Well thats another wasted Monday morning,


----------



## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> Well thats another wasted Monday morning,
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 52425





 It's a wonderful way to start the week isn't it. I'm leaving my chart till the end of the day as things usually go downhill in the arvo session 

EDIT: I only just looked at the Y-axis.....NO  ?!


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

Trembling Hand said:


> Well thats another wasted Monday morning,
> 
> View attachment 52425




Yeah it's the fact that you get that back to zero which is the amazing part, not that you were down that much. Teach me, lol.


----------



## boofis

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Yeah it's the fact that you get that back to zero which is the amazing part, not that you were down that much. Teach me, lol.




Would you like me to teach you Sam? .....




Haha:


----------



## boofis

What is this range?! Feels like I'm trading the aussie bonds :bad:


----------



## Trembling Hand

boofis said:


> What is this range?! Feels like I'm trading the aussie bonds :bad:




With the US and UK closed tonight anything could happen including nothing!


----------



## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> With the US and UK closed tonight anything could happen including nothing!




lol, good thing I closed that long for a stale exit before it went another 20 ticks in my favour ha. 
Does HKFE have a rule on how many orders you cancel TH?


----------



## Trembling Hand

No, see the top Hotkey. Thats the cancel button. Reckon its done more miles than a Melbourne Taxi driver.


----------



## CanOz

boofis said:


> What is this range?! Feels like I'm trading the aussie bonds :bad:




Well today is Monday, and a holiday in the US...so a quiet day is on the cards from the get go, plus its a light news day in Europe....

CanOz


----------



## CanOz

Trembling Hand said:


> No, see the top Hotkey. Thats the cancel button. Reckon its done more miles than a Melbourne Taxi driver.
> 
> View attachment 52429





Ahhhh, that was always you spoofing and pulling orders.....suspected as much!


----------



## boofis

Was there really 2.4k volume at 4:15 or is that a glitch from IB to NT? Cause it's not on the IB chart :\


----------



## boofis

stopped out on every trade thus far from wanting it to go further into the green and instead having it come back against me


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

My efforts from the last half hour lol....looks like I need to do the exact opposite, pity I don't know what I was doing in the first place, other than trying to go with the flow....just turn your screens upside down and it's perfect  

And since when has the HSI had data till midnight or so??


----------



## CanOz

If you guys have trouble seeing icebergs, try using a 2 range chart on top of a 2 minute chart to look inside the bars...maybe you do this anyway but as you can see it highlights areas where there is some absorption which can make for a nice reversal or a flood of stops sometimes....you can see the iceberg indicated with the little red market, its on the offer.

Thanks to Alex on another forum for the idea...thought I'd share it in case the scalper saw some value in it.

CanOz


----------



## boofis

ThingyMajiggy said:


> My efforts from the last half hour lol....looks like I need to do the exact opposite, pity I don't know what I was doing in the first place, other than trying to go with the flow....just turn your screens upside down and it's perfect
> 
> And since when has the HSI had data till midnight or so??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 52434




Nothing wrong with those results Sam, you're still green!


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

boofis said:


> Nothing wrong with those results Sam, you're still green!




Nah forget the +400 ticks, that was exciting a longer term trade, I just did the downhill part in 30 mins this arvo, so I lost around 200 ticks! Not so green!


----------



## boofis

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Nah forget the +400 ticks, that was exciting a longer term trade, I just did the downhill part in 30 mins this arvo, so I lost around 200 ticks! Not so green!




What kind of ideas were you trying to trade?


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

boofis said:


> What kind of ideas were you trying to trade?




None in particular, was just punting away through boredom mostly, not many ideas I can think of for the last half hour. Just turned it on and had a crack, wasn't that serious of a go, I usually do my best in the first hour or two of the sessions, I just get chopped to death after that lol.


----------



## boofis

ThingyMajiggy said:


> None in particular, was just punting away through boredom mostly, not many ideas I can think of for the last half hour. Just turned it on and had a crack, wasn't that serious of a go, I usually do my best in the first hour or two of the sessions, I just get chopped to death after that lol.




Yeah understandable lol! Load up on open and pretend like we're in TH's league ey.


----------



## boofis

More stats to come to do some analysing. F8ckin ninja and that stupid erase stats when you go back in time....grrr



*Will try tightening up my stop to 15 ticks (Which is still relatively wide lol)
*On range bound days looking for longer range bars with relatively higher volume as turning points.
*Also, try to accept range bound days as just that earlier on in the day and adjust profit expectation accordingly i.e. no 150 tick runners.


----------



## boofis

Tighter stop and a nice string of losses lol. Couple patterns starting to stick out for smaller trades but the runners seem to me at this stage to be on the right side of the market at the same time as when peoples drop the size!


----------



## boofis

Would anyone mind confirming the volume of the opening 5min bar this morning? Mine says 8397


----------



## Trembling Hand

boofis said:


> Would anyone mind confirming the volume of the opening 5min bar this morning? Mine says 8397




TT is saying that it was about that. IB on Historical data reload is saying 1/2 that??!!


----------



## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> TT is saying that it was about that. IB on Historical data reload is saying 1/2 that??!!




Hmmm, NT is saying that, IB is not saying that for me.... I know not what is happening. Rollover?

I'm cautious now, I just got a 1min bar with 2500


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

boofis said:


> Hmmm, NT is saying that, IB is not saying that for me.... I know not what is happening. Rollover?
> 
> I'm cautious now, I just got a 1min bar with 2500




Yeah I'm getting that all the time too, never know if its IB or actual. Like that 600 lot that just hit.


----------



## boofis

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Yeah I'm getting that all the time too, never know if its IB or actual. Like that 600 lot that just hit.




Yeah this is some real BS. How can there be a discrepancy between the data provider and target software  NT is reporting the data far different for me than what IB is sending it through it seems.


----------



## CanOz

boofis said:


> Yeah this is some real BS. How can there be a discrepancy between the data provider and target software  NT is reporting the data far different for me than what IB is sending it through it seems.




LOL....having fun yet? 

Data makes a big difference...IB is just not designed to be a intra-day traders feed. It packaging up and shipped off to you to be unpacked in a manner that "only god knows"....If it can't decide it just doesn't assign them to the bid or the offer, they're just "in between".

Anyway, there is enough chatter around the net on IBs data, use at your own peril. Having said that TH managed to use it AND be profitable for a few years before turning Pro so that must say something....


CanOz


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

I'm not really paying any attention to it tbh, it's IB, has always been like that, I'm more interested to see if my "play" in my head plays out over the next 15-30 mins, I know the detail in the figures is wrong so I won't put any weight on it, besides if I'm right on the longer call then it'll get there one way or another lol.


----------



## boofis

CanOz said:


> LOL....having fun yet?
> 
> Data makes a big difference...IB is just not designed to be a intra-day traders feed. It packaging up and shipped off to you to be unpacked in a manner that "only god knows"....If it can't decide it just doesn't assign them to the bid or the offer, they're just "in between".
> 
> Anyway, there is enough chatter around the net on IBs data, use at your own peril. Having said that TH managed to use it AND be profitable for a few years before turning Pro so that must say something....
> 
> 
> CanOz




Yeah, I guess it just comes with the territory of wanting to trade a market that doesn't really have any other providers...Oh propex, please take me on haha. 




An encouraging start to the morning. 
Pulled the stop in and only took positions with int. highs/lows as stop points (just outside the high/low really). 
Also pulled in profit target due to it feeling like a fairly rangey day. 
Cut too early my 30 tick winner on open, should've let it ride for a bit longer but that's always the dilemma.


----------



## boofis

Note: need to be more conscious of my holding time with trades that go straight to green.


----------



## boofis




----------



## ThingyMajiggy

Efforts on the Kospi so far today, strange market, will do nothing churning for a while then suddenly be a one way train for a while, rinse and repeat. Like standing in front of a train if you get it wrong!


----------



## boofis

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Efforts on the Kospi so far today, strange market, will do nothing churning for a while then suddenly be a one way train for a while, rinse and repeat. Like standing in front of a train if you get it wrong!
> 
> View attachment 52463




Smooth curve good stuff. Yeah, the more I watch the kospi the less I like it. Couple mornings got caught offside on those larger range moves and there goes your day if it doesn't do anything else for the rest of the session


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

I don't mind it actually, seems to be reasonably predictable, it's definitely the ES of Asia.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

How the session ended up on the Kospi. Was stacking up to 10 lots, a drill that we did at the prop shop during training. Can work OK if you get lucky on the runs....and vice versa!


----------



## boofis

ThingyMajiggy said:


> How the session ended up on the Kospi. Was stacking up to 10 lots, a drill that we did at the prop shop during training. Can work OK if you get lucky on the runs....and vice versa!
> 
> View attachment 52466




Stacking the orderbook by any chance? Think I did the same drill. 10 lots on the k200 is huge man I wish I could control that kind of size within risk! What would you be trading on live account? or are you trying to trade as if it were prop account?


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

boofis said:


> Stacking the orderbook by any chance? Think I did the same drill. 10 lots on the k200 is huge man I wish I could control that kind of size within risk! What would you be trading on live account? or are you trying to trade as if it were prop account?




Yeah but with my own spin on it, to try out certain things. Not really trying to "do" anything, just having a go and remembered some of the drills we did, staying in the market all day was one, Won't be trading live for a long time, need funding, so just experimenting, will have a more serious go at it when I get the data to replay back, going to try lots of different markets to see what I like the most then go from there. I usually just always go up to 10 lots on whatever I try, can't hurt getting an idea on how to use/control a bit of size anyway


----------



## boofis

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Yeah but with my own spin on it, to try out certain things. Not really trying to "do" anything, just having a go and remembered some of the drills we did, staying in the market all day was one, Won't be trading live for a long time, need funding, so just experimenting, will have a more serious go at it when I get the data to replay back, going to try lots of different markets to see what I like the most then go from there. I usually just always go up to 10 lots on whatever I try, can't hurt getting an idea on how to use/control a bit of size anyway




Ah k, you looked at topstep or keen to go back prop in aus? 
shAt I forgot to send that today sorry, will ride down tomorrow and give it to the snail!


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

boofis said:


> Ah k, you looked at topstep or keen to go back prop in aus?
> shAt I forgot to send that today sorry, will ride down tomorrow and give it to the snail!




Yeah had a look, but looks like its only US stuff for TST. Don't think aus prop would take me again until I prove myself on a live account for a long, long, long time. Who knows. I'm just trading now because I like it. It's not really that realistic for me as a real venture, unless someone would like to give me 50-100K for a 50% cut, but I think pigs might fly by my window before that happens haha


----------



## boofis

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Yeah had a look, but looks like its only US stuff for TST. Don't think aus prop would take me again until I prove myself on a live account for a long, long, long time. Who knows. I'm just trading now because I like it. It's not really that realistic for me as a real venture, unless someone would like to give me 50-100K for a 50% cut, but I think pigs might fly by my window before that happens haha




You can apply for a special combine or whatever it's called with TST, I emailed them once but their requirements aren't realistic of trading imo, winning days and all that poop. 

You never know man, once people see a couple good trading results it's been my experience that some will want to throw money at you, the hard part is doing something productive with it 

Heh, I guess it's not realistic for me either, I'm just lucky that I've got parents who haven't kicked me out yet, enough of an account to have a crack with, and a gf who doesn't mind! Now to show some profitability...haha


----------



## boofis

A downday, but reassuring from the smaller trades I took adjusting to market conditions. Would've been an upday on the big seng but the small tick value of 1 ctr on the mini matched with commission makes for some diminishing returns the more trades one takes! 

Didn't adjust to the long direction quickly enough to profit from it, was still just taking fades. But, another day down, account not blown up and some ok trades taken. Me = happy.


----------



## boofis

what thef ark inar sehol e is this market doing, 100 ticks one way street. gah!


----------



## havaiana

boofis said:


> You can apply for a special combine or whatever it's called with TST, I emailed them once but their requirements aren't realistic of trading imo, winning days and all




Just for your info, you can customise the parameters. So you could ask them to not have the 50% winning day requirement and add something else instead, (say something like average winning day has to be higher than average losing day). I'm about to fail a combine, but in my opinion they are definitely do-able, i certainly wouldn't be keen on giving anyone any money that couldn't pass one.

Edit: also obviously i'm not prop so can't say for certain, but i would think alot of the stats they have would be pretty common in prop firms, they're solid trading principles and we're up against guys who meet them day in day out


----------



## boofis

havaiana said:


> Just for your info, you can customise the parameters. So you could ask them to not have the 50% winning day requirement and add something else instead, (say something like average winning day has to be higher than average losing day). I'm about to fail a combine, but in my opinion they are definitely do-able, i certainly wouldn't be keen on giving anyone any money that couldn't pass one.




Yeah they weren't too keen on easing up on certain parameters from my short discourse with them. So the road kind of ended there :\ lol.


----------



## havaiana

boofis said:


> Yeah they weren't too keen on easing up on certain parameters from my short discourse with them. So the road kind of ended there :\ lol.




Fair enough, didn't realise you'd spoken with them about customising one. I haven't spoken to them about changing anything, but if i did another one would ask for a lower profit target in return for smoother equity curve (lower daily stop loss, lower max contracts, lower  max drawdown)


----------



## boofis

havaiana said:


> Fair enough, didn't realise you'd spoken with them about customising one. I haven't spoken to them about changing anything, but if i did another one would ask for a lower profit target in return for smoother equity curve (lower daily stop loss, lower max contracts, lower  max drawdown)




Yeah no stress. So you'd prefer to mitigate some of the risk, will you try again?


----------



## Lone Wolf

boofis said:


> View attachment 52459




The opening and closing of those candles don't match. So even if there were no other issues, the volume still wouldn't match since IB's bars are opening and closing at a different time to NT's bars.

Obviously there's more going on here than just that though, and yes, it sucks.


----------



## havaiana

boofis said:


> Yeah no stress. So you'd prefer to mitigate some of the risk, will you try again?




I think i can pass it how it is, i'm failing because of crap trading and not having a decent plan going into it. I basically crumbled under the pressure. If i could make it easier for myself by bringing the profit target down would probably do that though.

Not sure if i will do another one, maybe one more, it is kind of the only option I see available being an undercapitalised trader in Melbourne. Even if i had the capital i would still prefer to go the prop route


----------



## boofis

havaiana said:


> I think i can pass it how it is, i'm failing because of crap trading and not having a decent plan going into it. I basically crumbled under the pressure. If i could make it easier for myself by bringing the profit target down would probably do that though.
> 
> Not sure if i will do another one, maybe one more, it is kind of the only option I see available being an undercapitalised trader in Melbourne. Even if i had the capital i would still prefer to go the prop route




Yeah I hear you. Prop setup wins over retail any day of the week. Now just to actually trade like a prop trader


----------



## boofis

Monday the 14/1/13


----------



## CanOz

boofis said:


> View attachment 52470
> 
> 
> Monday the 14/1/13




trade frequency looks pretty good mate...


----------



## boofis

CanOz said:


> trade frequency looks pretty good mate...




Something I haven't really thought about/focused on up to this point. I'll start to take it into consideration.
Just working on timing of trades in relation to the session e.g. when to expect fades, when to expect real breaks. Especially with the arvo session which is a less familiar format.


----------



## CanOz

Guys, this is gold but this happens in allot of markets obviously. You can see the usefulness of the 2 range chart (on Top) in this example. Look at the work done at the offers where i have circled. Someone wanted to hold the offer at this level for a while. There was nearly 2600 cars traded at 76.7, 76.6, and 76.5. I just happened to notice it and thought it a good example of how to use the 2 Range chart if you don't have alerts for ice bergs.

A 2 range chart is a chart that draws a candle every time the price travels 2 ticks.


----------



## boofis

CanOz said:


> Guys, this is gold but this happens in allot of markets obviously. You can see the usefulness of the 2 range chart (on Top) in this example. Look at the work done at the offers where i have circled. Someone wanted to hold the offer at this level for a while. There was nearly 2600 cars traded at 76.7, 76.6, and 76.5. I just happened to notice it and thought it a good example of how to use the 2 Range chart if you don't have alerts for ice bergs.
> 
> A 2 range chart is a chart that draws a candle every time the price travels 2 ticks.




Have you ever thought about doing freelance drawing in paint for a living? That's a marvellous arrow you've drawn haha  Will have a range chart running today and see what it shows.


----------



## boofis

When do most traders start trading the next month on the seng? Tomorrow onwards?


----------



## boofis

Update on the days pnl. Starting to see a daily trend forming in my pnl, up after open heading down the longer the day goes on! 

Also a scatter chart showing my trades. Again, would still be in the green (marginally) if it were the big seng not mini seng. Note* I mention this not to try and fool myself into thinking I can trade consistently profitable, but just as a meager sign of encouragement that I've not got everything wrong LOL


----------



## CanOz

boofis said:


> When do most traders start trading the next month on the seng? Tomorrow onwards?




In my experience the Seng usually goes right to the last day...punctual, not like the US where you have to roll with the volume.

CanOz


----------



## boofis

CanOz said:


> In my experience the Seng usually goes right to the last day...punctual, not like the US where you have to roll with the volume.
> 
> CanOz




Thanks Can!


----------



## Trembling Hand

Here is my P & L for the morning...... Again!




Chart made by TTs great stat keeping!!


----------



## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> Here is my P & L for the morning...... Again!
> 
> View attachment 52482
> 
> 
> Chart made by TTs great stat keeping!!




Haha ah you're a mad funny bastard haha.


----------



## CanOz

Better Freehand MS Painter than me


----------



## tech/a

Trembling Hand said:


> Here is my P & L for the morning...... Again!
> 
> View attachment 52482
> 
> 
> Chart made by TTs great stat keeping!!




Trade afternoons.


----------



## Trembling Hand

tech/a said:


> Trade afternoons.




If I avoided every bad period that I had from time to time I would never trade. Idea is to fix the F ups not just walk away from them. More outliers happen in the first 30 min than the rest of the day combined. Unfortunately this week they seem to be the wrong way for me.....


----------



## tech/a

I find there are only 3 bad times to trade.

Morning Noon and Night.


----------



## boofis

Error on reloading data; IB error in requesting historical data from IB. No security definition has been found for the request (200) (panic) 
I've got like a thousand of these popping up and I've restarted both programs. ANy ideas :S!


----------



## Trembling Hand

You didn't change the roll over date in NT did you?


----------



## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> You didn't change the roll over date in NT did you?




Nope  Ninja not getting any data at all now, so this is a kick in the nuts!


----------



## CanOz

boofis said:


> Error on reloading data; IB error in requesting historical data from IB. No security definition has been found for the request (200) (panic)
> I've got like a thousand of these popping up and I've restarted both programs. ANy ideas :S!




What version of TWS are you running? You didn't update recently did you?

Should be 927.7


----------



## boofis

CanOz said:


> What version of TWS are you running? You didn't update recently did you?
> 
> Should be 927.7




TWS 4.0?


----------



## CanOz

boofis said:


> TWS 4.0?




Under help\About Trader Workstation

Build 927.7


----------



## boofis

CanOz said:


> Under help\About Trader Workstation
> 
> Build 927.7




938.1 on april 25 2013


----------



## CanOz

boofis said:


> 938.1 on april 25 2013




Ninja only works on 927.7 mate...


----------



## boofis

CanOz said:


> Ninja only works on 927.7 mate...




It's been working fine up until just now though, so I'm not sure if that's it or not. Have got the live feed back enough to fkcuk up one trade, but still not getting historical data.


----------



## CanOz

Actually queried them on this last week as i keep getting requests to update Java and the new security patch...but no...not yet they...



> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> The 927.7 version of TWS is required by NinjaTrader at this time. An update to a newer version will be coming in the future but it is currently unclear when an upgrade from the 927.7 build of TWS to another would occur at this time.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Kyle
> NinjaTrader Customer Service




You need to un-install TWS and re-install the proper version. Will send you an email with the link...

CanOz


----------



## boofis

CanOz said:


> Actually queried them on this last week as i keep getting requests to update Java and the new security patch...but no...not yet they...
> 
> 
> 
> You need to un-install TWS and re-install the proper version. Will send you an email with the link...
> 
> CanOz




Alright cheers, appreciate it.


----------



## CanOz

boofis said:


> Alright cheers, appreciate it.




I'm really surprised you haven't had more issues, i couldn't even run TWS through NT with the newer version the time that i tried...

CanOz


----------



## boofis

Try and scalp couple ticks long (don't ask why ) and manage to make the best judgement to sell at the bottom of the bar and buy at the top gah fml. a;lskdfeoqwfj;oiawefj;o


----------



## boofis

So still ended up red. 6th day of live trading. Fairly happy with progress. There are good trades amongst the shat. Just a process of avoiding the shat and working the good trades for all they're worth. More sim and live to come!
Strengths
*Trading open well.
*Able to spot range better. 
*Not aggressively position sizing while learning.
*Morning session.

Weaknesses
*Committing to trend days  (spotting them early enough)
*Getting distracted with pointless crap cause of the hrs staring at the screen on ones own 
*Arvo session.

I should note my life circumstances for anyone here who might stumble across this thread one day. I'm 23, quit all other life commitments (potential jobs etc.) to try and become a profitable trader and will hopefully get a gig with prop one day. I've got no other income. I'm lucky that I don't have rent to pay thanks to generous parents. 
Let me say, this is the hardest thing I've ever tried to do and this thread will either show my entire progress from newb on the seng to professional. Or, like most, from newb to blown up.


----------



## boofis

Alright this is the compilation of stats for the last week in January. 
It tells me I am first and foremost trading too much, I have far too many losing trades so I'm still over correcting and flipping at the wrong points. 
I shouldn't be seeing any green dots within the 0 ~ 10 tick area of the scatter plot as even on a range day it's still possible to scalp that out, so I'm just closing early for fear of losing profits. 
This was a red week on the whole so more practise needed.


----------



## kid hustlr

So you are trading on both the sim and with a live account? Or is it all still 'play money' at this stage?


----------



## boofis

kid hustlr said:


> So you are trading on both the sim and with a live account? Or is it all still 'play money' at this stage?




Both yeah. I'm trading live account of my own but still doing a heap of simulation (outside of market hrs) work aswell.


----------



## boofis

Have spent the morning on a static repeating pattern treasure hunt through charts of days gone by. Think I've got a few more ideas to work with, now just to get them ingrained and start to spot them as (if) they develop.


----------



## Trembling Hand

boofis said:


> Both yeah. I'm trading live account of my own but still doing a heap of simulation (outside of market hrs) work aswell.




While you are doing that you want to be looking for "something".

Something that is repeated a few time a sess/day/week whatever. You will be surprised at how well it goes once you can frame you attack around a similar play. All of a sudden the noise is just that until you get your trigger to play. The Seng, I reckon, has heaps of them.


----------



## CanOz

Trembling Hand said:


> While you are doing that you want to be looking for "something".
> 
> Something that is repeated a few time a sess/day/week whatever. You will be surprised at how well it goes once you can frame you attack around a similar play. All of a sudden the noise is just that until you get your trigger to play. The Seng, I reckon, has heaps of them.




Another little gem...

Thinking the Seng tests 22730 today...

Boofis, you get your TWS sorted?


----------



## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> While you are doing that you want to be looking for "something".
> 
> Something that is repeated a few time a sess/day/week whatever. You will be surprised at how well it goes once you can frame you attack around a similar play. All of a sudden the noise is just that until you get your trigger to play. The Seng, I reckon, has heaps of them.







That's what Ninjatrader has to say about that, "No more trading for you!".

Definitely trying to keep that in mind.
I think one of my biggest struggles at this early stage on a new market is the messy decision making process from having to take so much in (what's happening, have I seen this before, is this one of the patterns I was trying to spot, am I seeing this correctly, did that really just move 50 ticks the opposite way to what I was thinking .

Thanks for the input.


----------



## boofis

CanOz said:


> Another little gem...
> 
> Thinking the Seng tests 22730 today...
> 
> Boofis, you get your TWS sorted?




Na just did replays until late last night then was fooked so went to bed and rinse and repeat this morning. Should really do it I guess lol..


----------



## CanOz

Its looks like we've rolled to June on the HSI? It seems thicker than May....?

Yikes, my charts for this are tad screwy....730 seems a mile off...

Edit...well i was going to follow along with you guys today for some fun, but NT/IB won't cooperate and I've now lost all my charts and DOM...what a piece of gear.

CanOz


----------



## boofis

CanOz said:


> Its looks like we've rolled to June on the HSI? It seems thicker than May....?
> 
> Yikes, my charts for this are tad screwy....730 seems a mile off...
> 
> Edit...well i was going to follow along with you guys today for some fun, but NT/IB won't cooperate and I've now lost all my charts and DOM...what a piece of gear.
> 
> CanOz




Right you are Can! June it is.


----------



## boofis

After multiple attempts at fading that double top with the reversal bar (and being stopped out) finally got a good entry on it. Now the brutal part of when to take the chips off the table.
Covered 226. Look for re entry.


----------



## boofis

Happy with the fade of the opening move. Wasn't patient enough in waiting for it though. More lessons learned! 
Another day down, nearly break even   
PROGRESS!

To date, this leaves me with.....




Split today cause I made the first trades on May and the last ones on June, so just clearer organisation wise.
Off to fly in the sky for the weekend! adios


----------



## >Apocalypto<

boofis said:


> View attachment 52507
> 
> 
> Happy with the fade of the opening move. Wasn't patient enough in waiting for it though. More lessons learned!
> Another day down, nearly break even
> PROGRESS!
> 
> To date, this leaves me with.....
> 
> View attachment 52508
> 
> 
> Split today cause I made the first trades on May and the last ones on June, so just clearer organisation wise.
> Off to fly in the sky for the weekend! adios




Hats off to you Boofis, sim or live... really doesn't worry me... trading the k200 short term is bloody hard. I gave the k200 a crack in 2010 on sim and live got carted a few times and decided to trade nicer market like CL LOL... 

enjoying your thread...  good trading to you.


----------



## boofis

>Apocalypto< said:


> Hats off to you Boofis, sim or live... really doesn't worry me... trading the k200 short term is bloody hard. I gave the k200 a crack in 2010 on sim and live got carted a few times and decided to trade nicer market like CL LOL...
> 
> enjoying your thread...  good trading to you.




Yeah, the asian markets can take one for a ride that's for sure haha. 

Thanks and likewise to you on the black liquid!


----------



## boofis

Alright, Day 9. 

The first thing to note is that Melbourne is really cold and I hate it.

Been back on sim to try get the patterns and plays fresh in my head after a 4 day weekend 

A couple things I just want to remind myself of is never to take a contract off within 1r profit as it just farks up expectancy real good. The logic is not even close to working, if in my case I'm risking 15 (sometimes more sometimes less, this isn't actually a set figure) then why would I take one off at 10, that's setting myself up for failure and the only reason I do it is cause I get impatient and want to cookie monster the open profit. 

Next is patience. I'm about to play ball on day 9 of what is once again a new market. I cannot expect to triple my account with a 100% win rate and a win loss ratio of one thousand lol. Just work on the basics and self preservation until the 'something' TH spoke off starts to become evident and repeats in my trading behaviour not just the markets. 

Exciting times, gotta love this life (ask me again after todays close and it may be different haha).


----------



## boofis

:dunno:forgot to click the mouse this morning lol. Grand total of no trades taken.


----------



## CanOz

boofis said:


> :dunno:forgot to click the mouse this morning lol. Grand total of no trades taken.




Hand frozen?


----------



## boofis

CanOz said:


> Hand frozen?




lol, just out of it from what may have been a big night last night  "should get short here...Oh there it goes" lol. too late!


----------



## Trembling Hand

boofis said:


> :dunno:forgot to click the mouse this morning lol. Grand total of no trades taken.




I broke mine. And the keyboard and nearly my screens as well!! Had the pleasure of riding a full size short from before cash open all the way down to the lows from pretty much the highs to then have my internet drop out as it reverses just 10 ticks off my target. :cussing:

To then have it connect 2 min later to see its 60 ticks higher and running while I ring up the Risk dude to try and close it to then tell him to stick it I'll do it myself to then think F it - I'm good I'll ride this bunny back down :bunny: To then watch it go all the way back up another 60 ticks to my avg entry. While I fight this overwhelming feeling 

Finally she rolls over and I closed it 20 ticks off the low.

Errr :silly: now I feel like I have a stroke coming on and my neighbours think there is someone with turrets in my house.


:axt:


----------



## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> I broke mine. And the keyboard and nearly my screens as well!! Had the pleasure of riding a full size short from before cash open all the way down to the lows from pretty much the highs to then have my internet drop out as it reverses just 10 ticks off my target. :cussing:
> 
> To then have it connect 2 min later to see its 60 ticks higher and running while I ring up the Risk dude to try and close it to then tell him to stick it I'll do it myself to then think F it - I'm good I'll ride this bunny back down :bunny: To then watch it go all the way back up another 60 ticks to my avg entry. While I fight this overwhelming feeling
> 
> Finally she rolls over and I closed it 20 ticks off the low.
> 
> Errr :silly: now I feel like I have a stroke coming on and my neighbours think there is someone with turrets in my house.
> 
> 
> :axt:




Haha, I'll give you an old rolling ball mouse I've got, they're fairly heavy duty. 

Mate do I find those anecdotes not only enjoyable but encouraging (sorry that it's at your expense!). How's the blood pressure doing?


----------



## boofis

What just happened in the order book? **** got real thick and it looked like spreading does in the bonds. I've not seen 50 on the mini depth before :S




lol, the charts look a bit funny with two trades.  Closed my short at 22004 which I was happy about...until it dropped another 30 ticks through d'oh!


----------



## CanOz

Trembling Hand said:


> I broke mine. And the keyboard and nearly my screens as well!! Had the pleasure of riding a full size short from before cash open all the way down to the lows from pretty much the highs to then have my internet drop out as it reverses just 10 ticks off my target. :cussing:
> 
> To then have it connect 2 min later to see its 60 ticks higher and running while I ring up the Risk dude to try and close it to then tell him to stick it I'll do it myself to then think F it - I'm good I'll ride this bunny back down :bunny: To then watch it go all the way back up another 60 ticks to my avg entry. While I fight this overwhelming feeling
> 
> Finally she rolls over and I closed it 20 ticks off the low.
> 
> Errr :silly: now I feel like I have a stroke coming on and my neighbours think there is someone with turrets in my house.
> 
> 
> :axt:




lol....I've felt like before with 1 contract....imagine with your full size on the line...

Nerves of steel?


----------



## boofis

If anyone wants ideas on how to ruin a perfectly good morning, open a trade on the seng and close it on the mini seng and then look at your summary.




MHI was a loss and seng was awful.


----------



## boofis

After todays session I've got the motivational ****s to get into the week so nothing like a couple sessions of sped up sim. 
Was trading 1 ctr lots but adding to positions (Up to 3) if they moved fairly immediately in my favour more than 10 ticks. 

Errors today:
Mechanical error in placing orders on the wrong dom which cost me big time. 
In hindsight I did not trade today as if it was a range bound day, need to stay fluid in analysis. 
Traded too many contracts. 

Positives:
After being a dick, I watched the full session and tried to learn. 
I haven't blown up haha. 

Anyway, back to sim. 



Most notable difference between sim and real seems to be the speed at which things take place still, being fairly favorable on sped up sim cause there's more instant gratification rather than umm'ing and ahh'ing.
And also, if I do a **** trade on sim it's just like damn, **** trade anyway next trade. But in real life, I try to convince myself it's a good trade LOL STUPID. 

Shall be trading into the wee hours of the morning to keep the account topped up while I try and master this wild seng!


----------



## boofis




----------



## boofis

Another morning spent pattern searching and simming. Think I'm onto one that keeps popping up and I'm trading it alright aswell, so that's in the playbook to keep an eye on when trading live.
*I would post pictures butttt.... lol


----------



## boofis

These flip and reverse type days I find difficult. It's false breaks galore but I'm yet to be able to spot consistent characteristics of falses. :bad: :newbie: more work to be done.

Edit: what am i saying, all of this **** is difficult but great haha


----------



## boofis

Morning results. 


Have put alot of pictures in the charts folder after this session. Berry interesting.


----------



## CanOz

The NK sure was fun this morning, so i can imagine honkers....

Where ya think honkers will finish for the day? Low i hope!


----------



## boofis

CanOz said:


> The NK sure was fun this morning, so i can imagine honkers....
> 
> Where ya think honkers will finish for the day? Low i hope!




It's been pretty tame range wise, back and forth. 

I've no idea where it will end LOL

Think the markets trying to tell me something... "You are a...!"


----------



## boofis

Buy 695...stopped out 684... d'oh. 
Oh to have the discernment of a true cowboy.



End of session, I'm jumping on sim to have a play for a bit.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

boofis said:


> Buy 695...stopped out 684... d'oh.
> Oh to have the discernment of a true cowboy.
> View attachment 52639
> 
> 
> End of session, I'm jumping on sim to have a play for a bit.




These results with a live account boofis?


----------



## boofis

ThingyMajiggy said:


> These results with a live account boofis?




Yeah Sam. All the Ninja stuff is simulation but the excel looking stuff is real account.


----------



## boofis

Is there a tool one can get or a setting to enable so that I can see a countdown to when the bar on the chart will be closed?


----------



## Trembling Hand

Like these two?


----------



## kid hustlr

boofis said:


> Is there a tool one can get or a setting to enable so that I can see a countdown to when the bar on the chart will be closed?




i remember reading on th's blog he used a countdown clock. I think he used ninjatrader so I assume it still has that function

EDIT:

no latency


----------



## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> Like these two?
> View attachment 52654




Yes! Like those two. Is that something you've made yourself TH or available to public?


----------



## Trembling Hand

Here is the bar thingo,
http://www.ninjatrader.com/support/forum/local_links.php?action=ratelink&linkid=331&catid=-1&lpage=2

the Bartimer is a standard indicator in Nt funnily enough I thing its called "bar Timer"! 

And here is another I've seen.
http://www.ninjatrader.com/support/forum/local_links.php?action=ratelink&linkid=440&catid=-1&lpage=1


----------



## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> Here is the bar thingo,
> http://www.ninjatrader.com/support/forum/local_links.php?action=ratelink&linkid=331&catid=-1&lpage=2
> 
> the Bartimer is a standard indicator in Nt funnily enough I thing its called "bar Timer"!
> 
> And here is another I've seen.
> http://www.ninjatrader.com/support/forum/local_links.php?action=ratelink&linkid=440&catid=-1&lpage=1




 cheers


----------



## boofis

Damn! Thought it was finally my turn to have a good morning. Made 4 good trades in succession so started to get a bit of confidence but quickly lost all that lol!


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

boofis said:


> View attachment 52662
> 
> 
> Damn! Thought it was finally my turn to have a good morning. Made 4 good trades in succession so started to get a bit of confidence but quickly lost all that lol!




Wait, so those equity curves you're posting are live or sim? Because if you're losing 500 to 2000 points/$$? in a session on live, I suggest a change lol


----------



## boofis

One extra trade, small winner. Almost got caught on the wrong side of that 60 tick short bar. 
Didn't recognise any signals this morning for longer trades, blows.


----------



## boofis

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Wait, so those equity curves you're posting are live or sim? Because if you're losing 500 to 2000 points/$$? in a session on live, I suggest a change lol




Ha, na not points, I wish I had that much capital, that's in HKD. So yeah, it is adding up yepppppp...
So I had in mind that 10,000hkd would be my first drawdown cut off point (which is approaching regrettably) to go back on sim. My weakness with sim is that its ****ing boring trading sim live day in day out especially when you're trying to progress in life and putting in hard yards and significant people in ones life think you're just playing around on a simulator. Mind you that's no reason to lose money you're right. In a nutshell, learning to trade and trying to do it full time on your own $$$ while having no other income but all the expectations and pressure in the world is ****ing bs **** **** **** hate this bull**** wanker **** bugger  LOL.


----------



## CanOz

lol...must be HKD....?

By the way, who's driving the Asian bus lately anyway, seems the NK is doing a pretty good job of leading everything else...


CanOz


----------



## boofis

Swap to sim and make back the mornings losses in the first 10 mins. :bad:




Also, NTs bar close is exactly 7 secs after IB closes its 1min bars. Will have to figure this one out through tech support me thinks.


----------



## boofis

Trembling Hand would you mind sharing, and I ask purely out of curiosity, what your quantity of winning days compared to losing days is for say the past 3 months or something? And then winning weeks to losing weeks? 
I'd be intrigued to see the distribution if you'd indulge. All good if not.

Also, I just tried to get filled market then and my order just sat there and never got filled, is it lagging for anyone else?


----------



## Trembling Hand

Here for the year.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/f...=24462&page=55&p=773700&viewfull=1#post773700


----------



## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> Here for the year.
> 
> https://www.aussiestockforums.com/f...=24462&page=55&p=773700&viewfull=1#post773700




Ah thanks!


----------



## Lone Wolf

boofis said:


> Also, NTs bar close is exactly 7 secs after IB closes its 1min bars. Will have to figure this one out through tech support me thinks.




NT's bar close works off your PC clock. If you want them to match, you'll need to sync your PC clock to IB's clock before you start NT. If it's important to you, don't forget to resync each day as your PC clock drifts away from IB's fairly quickly. Well mine does anyway.


----------



## boofis

Lone Wolf said:


> NT's bar close works off your PC clock. If you want them to match, you'll need to sync your PC clock to IB's clock before you start NT. If it's important to you, don't forget to resync each day as your PC clock drifts away from IB's fairly quickly. Well mine does anyway.




Thanks Lone Wolf, that sped up the problem solving rather quickly. Very handy indeed!


----------



## boofis

http://daytradetowin.com/blog/2012/11/30/how-to-keep-your-windows-time-in-sync-for-trading/

There's a link for anyone following along who may experience time sync issues in the future. Windows 7 has capability to automatically sync on an indefinite basis at predetermined intervals which is handy. 
Thanks to Lone Wolf!


----------



## boofis

Is that volume correct?! Didn't come through on NT...


----------



## CanOz

boofis said:


> View attachment 52692
> 
> 
> Is that volume correct?! Didn't come through on NT...




I have two bars of 2k on my 5 min


----------



## boofis

CanOz said:


> I have two bars of 2k on my 5 min




Thanks Can


----------



## boofis

Time for some reflection before the night session (fun fun). 

Have just spent a couple hrs reading back through this thread, similar threads, TH's blog, and review of my four 160 page A4 binded books of notes. 
I guess like with learning anything new I need to try and reinforce certain things and kill other habits. Sounds like a list is needed!

Things I've neglected:
1. I shouldn't be putting $$$ on the line yet.
2. I've been over trading. 
3. Most importantly *I have a lack of understanding*. 
TH's Blog "Without this knowledge (of markets)...You will start to be confused about market moves and talk about having problems with discipline in your trading, which is a cop out, it's lack of understanding being the real problem." 

Things I am doing:
1. Lots of sim time. 
2. Observing (trying to trade) my chosen market full time, also taking notes galore and trying to review. 
3. Going whole heartedly at this 

SO if anyone else who has gone before in the trading journey is reading along, PLEASE do join in and give your 2c, maybe even 3c, on what patterns/problems you can see in my situation/behaviour based on what I post. 

And of course, steps to take, things to implement over the next month. 
1. SIM trade the HSI full sessions, no money on the line.  
2. Keep putting away screen snapshots of different market conditions and keeping notes. 
3. I'm pretty tempted to just cough up and pay for NT so that I can have my stats kept rigorously...but a thousand smackers straight down the trading drain. Ah well. 

Any input.


----------



## boofis

:shake: I let just over 50 ticks open profit come back against me to a break even stop followed by what I thought was a bit of a double bottom that failed. 
Trading is not good for your mental or physical health, may or may not have a hole in the wall to patch  You start to feel the pressure which makes the hard signals harder to take and then the need for the open profits to ride more which inevitably leads to them coming back against. sigh. sigh. sigh.


----------



## peter2

1. Do you have one or a few clear objective setups that you like trading?
Do you prefer to trade with the trend or against it? Stick with your preference until you master it. 
If you are a trend trader then how do you define the trend. You need to know when your trend starts and finishes.

2. Are you profitable trading these patterns on sim? 
You should not be trading live until you can prove to yourself that you can be profitable trading your favourite patterns. If you are trading other discretionary patterns then stop it. 

3. Your performance should be judged on whether you traded according to your plans not if you won or lost. 
 Did you follow your trading process exactly in every trade? Don't blame the market for your results. Do you know that your trading plans have a profitable edge?

4. Are you keeping detailed record of each trades MAE, MFE? These will help you select the optimum stop loss size and exit target. Detailed trading records will have all the info that you need to turn your trading around. Imagine that you have to present your trading plans and results to a mentor. Would you be proud of your performance even though you're not profitable yet or realise that you are just gambling? 

As an exercise how about posting a description with a chart of your favourite trading setup with an exit strategy. This will show us your trading preference and whether you have one objective setup that you are happy to trade every time you see it. Every trader should have one pattern that they rely on and go back to when things get tough. 

You've mentioned that you have a "lack of understanding".  What is it that you don't understand? Ask a specific question and I'm sure you will get some replies. 

Your last double bottom trade resulted in a BE trade, so what. How is your overall record when you trade double bottoms? Is it worth your time trading them?


----------



## Trembling Hand

peter2 said:


> 4. Are you keeping detailed record of each trades MAE, MFE? These will help you select the optimum stop loss size and exit target.




Probably not. The HSI can have a 1 min range from 4 ticks to 80 within a few minutes. You probably need to read the market more than trade stats when swinging with crazies.


----------



## Trembling Hand

Though thinking about this a bit more. If you have 1 pattern that you are trading stats on it would be helpful. Problem with intraday trading is the vastly different market you have from min to min.


----------



## tech/a

I could be wrong but if a setup is a double bottom Id hardy qualify that is a set up Id expect to be used to "Scalp"
which is what you intend doing (IE the thread topic?).

If your not following depth as T/H does then perhaps your setups are wrong.

Id have thought identifying momentum and hoping on and off pulling a few 
4-6 tick trades every few minutes would be your aim.

You can trade range and volume only and short term micro patterns on Indexes.
Ive never traded the HSI which seems to be every index on steriods.
But the FTSE and DAX Ive traded successfully very short term based on those 3
Pattern Volume and Range.

Mind you I do like to position trade them---.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

boofis said:


> :shake: I let just over 50 ticks open profit come back against me to a break even stop followed by what I thought was a bit of a double bottom that failed.
> Trading is not good for your mental or physical health, may or may not have a hole in the wall to patch  You start to feel the pressure which makes the hard signals harder to take and then the need for the open profits to ride more which inevitably leads to them coming back against. sigh. sigh. sigh.




Know the feeling haha......this is about as close as you can get without getting a fill, then of course it completely rolls over with no sign of return. Hoooray!


----------



## Trembling Hand

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Know the feeling haha......this is about as close as you can get without getting a fill, then of course it completely rolls over with no sign of return. Hoooray!
> 
> View attachment 52746




Heheh


----------



## Trembling Hand

tech/a said:


> I could be wrong but if a setup is a double bottom Id hardy qualify that is a set up Id expect to be used to "Scalp"
> which is what you intend doing (IE the thread topic?).




Yeah I don't think anyone actually scalps. 

Further more I don't think anyone should.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

Trembling Hand said:


> Heheh
> 
> View attachment 52747




:bbat: Haha you beeping son of a beep, nicely done


----------



## boofis

Alot of input to reply to and the input is appreciated. 

This might give context, when doing a certain prop shops trainee intake the concept was that retail traders think there's only one way to trade e.g. I only trade trends, and that they wanted us to move away from that idea as it's bs retail talk and approach each day with 'setups' you can trade in all market conditions, choppy, ranging, trends, breakouts, etc. and that the best traders don't say "I don't trade range, I'm a trend trader" they trade what they see. 
So in terms of what I like to trade, I've been trading everything in sim. 

So I just had a foolish lightbulb then that I'm trying to arrive at that point but trying to arrive there all at once where as I'm pretty sure they would have arrived there one arrow in their metaphorical bow at a time.


----------



## CanOz

boofis said:


> I'm pretty sure they would have arrived there one arrow in their metaphorical bow at a time.




:dimbulb:

Yeah, i recall TH saying something like "find on or two setups that you can always count on and just do that for a while" to me a while back. For me, that happened to be the ice bergs clusters and subsequent stop run on them in Gold.

I suffered the same fate as you many a time. The thing is, your setup doesn't appear that often, so you get bored and decide "this looks good" and start trying ideas without testing them. Not saying this is what you did, more what happened to me at various times during my intra-day excursions....

Perhaps documenting a description of your trade ideas that work/good to go, then what you have that you want to test/trade on sim to see if they work consistently enough to be profitable.?

CanOz


----------



## Gringotts Bank

boofis said:


> the best traders don't say "I don't trade range, I'm a trend trader" they trade what they see.




I like this idea.  "What is the market doing _right now_" versus, "how can I squeeze the enormity of the market into my small set up framework".


----------



## Trembling Hand

Gringotts Bank said:


> I like this idea.  "What is the market doing _right now_" versus, "how can I squeeze the enormity of the market into my small set up framework".




I prefer how can I position myself for what I anticipate *will be* the market in the next 1 or 10 or 30min [insert your timeframe]


----------



## tech/a

Trembling Hand said:


> I prefer how can I position myself for what I anticipate *will be* the market in the next 1 or 10 or 30min [insert your timeframe]




What time frame do you find easiest or most reliable to anticipate?


----------



## Trembling Hand

tech/a said:


> What time frame do you find easiest or most reliable to anticipate?




Depends on the market or setup. But I guess most of my trades are 15 -30 min long.


----------



## tech/a

Trembling Hand said:


> Depends on the market or setup. But I guess most of my trades are 15 -30 min long.




Wow that's a far cry from your Punch drunk boxing days!


----------



## Trembling Hand

tech/a said:


> Wow that's a far cry from your Punch drunk boxing days!




Nah when its called for I'll give it it go. Trouble is you aren't likely to get much volume.


----------



## boofis

Hallelujah, first positive sign lol. Was able to sit on my hands until I saw the one familiar pattern I'm aiming for (granted I didn't participate in **** loads worth of short action but I hadn't seen my entry so I didn't trade) and I read it correctly and got a tight entry on it.


----------



## Trembling Hand

boofis said:


> Hallelujah, first positive sign lol. Was able to sit on my hands until I saw the one familiar pattern I'm aiming for (granted I didn't participate in **** loads worth of short action but I hadn't seen my entry so I didn't trade) and I read it correctly and got a tight entry on it.




Pretty gnarly day! I've been smacked like the towel bitch at an S M nite.

:whip

Still green but bugger me - what should of been hey??


----------



## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> Pretty gnarly day! I've been smacked like the towel bitch at an S M nite.
> 
> :whip
> 
> Still green but bugger me - what should of been hey??




Seriously. Missed the open, but made it in time for that first green range bar and thought that'd be about the end of it lol, oh how wrong one can be! 

Didn't quite secure the db9 this morning?


----------



## boofis

So the progress has been positive this past week. 
Still doing alot of sim, but mostly focusing on finding the profitable plays I'm searching most for and then repalying over and over, trying to internalise, practise practise. 
So the book of ideas is coming along, both in the sense of some ideas being culled but others added to the more I spot them.


----------



## boofis

Relatively speaking, a fairly uneventful day on the seng thus far. 
One thing I've noticed over the past couple days more specifically, sheesh the mini order book is getting thin at times with only a couple bids offers available during possible break situations.


----------



## boofis

Very encouraged by this mornings session. 




Couple sim trades on ninja and the one trade on the mini this morning. Should still be long but had limit orders in so I stuck with them. 
Play by play, cutting plays and adding to others. Learning to recognise and then just working on execution.


----------



## boofis

boofis said:


> Very encouraged by this mornings session.
> View attachment 52866
> View attachment 52867
> 
> 
> Couple sim trades on ninja and the one trade on the mini this morning. Should still be long but had limit orders in so I stuck with them.
> Play by play, cutting plays and adding to others. Learning to recognise and then just working on execution.




Was ragingly mad at myself for missing a prime setup which I've been practicing alot in sim but just didn't see it today in real time. Must burn that thing into my brain.


----------



## boofis

boofis said:


> Was ragingly mad at myself for missing a prime setup which I've been practicing alot in sim but just didn't see it today in real time. Must burn that thing into my brain.




Didn't miss it this time, captured 26 ticks with a 4 tick 'drawdown' then in the green for the rest of the trade. 
Can potentially re-enter on what appears to generally reoccur but will just aim for consistency on this before adding variables to it.


----------



## boofis

Inspired by rereading Steenbargers work, I've started to keep stats on plays that I try and execute, on what days, and the outcome of the trade. 
In the hope that it will tell me, which ones I'm seeing/using most, and which ones I'm either executing worst/need to get rid of. Just another objective way to look at ones own habits.


Stats are only young but hopefully they'll grow to yield a beautiful crop


----------



## CanOz

boofis said:


> Inspired by rereading Steenbargers work, I've started to keep stats on plays that I try and execute, on what days, and the outcome of the trade.
> In the hope that it will tell me, which ones I'm seeing/using most, and which ones I'm either executing worst/need to get rid of. Just another objective way to look at ones own habits.
> View attachment 52871
> 
> Stats are only young but hopefully they'll grow to yield a beautiful crop




Great idea...lets see what all the "experts" say...lol

CanOz


----------



## boofis

From a fair few hours of simulation x10 speed. Redoing the week, trying to solidify good habits and highlight ones I need to erradicate. 
The red through the centre shows a clear weakness when I was trying to fade a move that just kept going and then tried to get on board but after so long of trying to fade it I made poor entries; took far too long to shift my bias, should've spotted the HH HL much sooner and got on board with a smarter entry.
Stats are starting to show I'm better long than short lol.

The playbook is coming along well with 21 repeating ideas. At this stage just trying to continually spot them in replays and live, but only trading them live one by one, with the plan to slowly add to them as I get better at one then add the next, then the next etc.


----------



## boofis

So an update on my progress on the whole. 
Have had alot more breakeven days lately and even an ok winning day so am just trying to plod steadily through the mud to hopefully find my way through to the green pastures. 
Todays not looking like the pattern will continue however though 




So am trading the whole time, mostly on sim and then when the probable ones come along I muster my courage and fumble an order into the book and observe how things turn out haha. Hopefully these are positive signs, fingers crossed the pnl chart has bottomed and won't have a false break or double bottom to follow haha. But seriously.


----------



## boofis

Have not read todays action well at all. Most of me can't believe what I'm seeing  this is quite hefty two way range of which I have not been able to capture a single tick, gah!


----------



## boofis

boofis said:


> Have not read todays action well at all. Most of me can't believe what I'm seeing  this is quite hefty two way range of which I have not been able to capture a single tick, gah!




Time for a night of replay. Must succeeed!


----------



## Trembling Hand

boofis said:


> Time for a night of replay. Must succeeed!




Surely after a day like today the best thing you could do is have a beer and forget about the market....

:alcohol:


----------



## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> Surely after a day like today the best thing you could do is have a beer and forget about the market....
> 
> :alcohol:




Maybe you're right, I had a sip of port to unwind, but it's hard to forget when one hasn't yet 'made it'


----------



## tech/a

I could be wrong but the trading here seems to be that
Of an opinion of where the price " Should " be going 
V where it is actually going.

IE trading against the trend.

It's gotta pull up soon 
It's gonna turn and continue down again any minute!

With trends like this why aren't there prolonged trades in the direction of the trend?


----------



## Trembling Hand

tech/a said:


> With trends like this why aren't there prolonged trades in the direction of the trend?




LOL and which way is that? the HSI went down 500 points back up 550 and down again all in a few hours!


----------



## boofis

tech/a said:


> I could be wrong but the trading here seems to be that
> Of an opinion of where the price " Should " be going
> V where it is actually going.
> 
> IE trading against the trend.
> 
> It's gotta pull up soon
> It's gonna turn and continue down again any minute!
> 
> With trends like this why aren't there prolonged trades in the direction of the trend?




Jumping on board with continuing trends has been one of the aspects I'm working on as in sim a profitable type setup has been recurring which is now a fairly common pattern I'm trying to spot live, but today was a nightmare of its own variety that I've never seen in my short trading life lol. 

Pull up a chart of whatever timeframe you'd prefer Tech and have a quick skim, see what your thoughts are/would be in real time. 

As TH has said it was some huge range and my expectations in terms of average range when to fade, when to jump on board was just destroyed today (All except my first trade when I sold the top well)


----------



## tech/a

Trembling Hand said:


> LOL and which way is that? the HSI went down 500 points back up 550 and down again all in a few hours!




Yeh i know it does that 
I dont have HSI charts otherwise Id have a look.
Ill order R/T tomorrow.

Then ill be able to qualify my statement.

I am trading the FTSE

Stay long or cover?

Started late tonight.




Not being a smart **** just trying to help.




Basically i look for low risk setups and move to B/E as soon as I can.
I get stopped at B/E quite a bit 
BUT my Reward to risk is high.


----------



## Trembling Hand

tech/a said:


> I am trading the FTSE
> 
> Stay long or cover?




No idea.


----------



## tech/a

Trembling Hand said:


> No idea.




Me neither


----------



## CanOz

tech/a said:


> Basically i look for low risk setups and move to B/E as soon as I can.
> I get stopped at B/E quite a bit
> BUT my Reward to risk is high.




This is a good idea for retail traders using 1 car i reckon. 

CanOz


----------



## tech/a

Guess that's me then.
Every now and again I'll add some cars.

Where's the term "Cars" come from.
Does T/H trade ships?


----------



## CanOz

tech/a said:


> Guess that's me then.
> Every now and again I'll add some cars.
> 
> Where's the term "Cars" come from.
> Does T/H trade ships?




It comes from the old days in the pits and Agricultural futures, freight cars....

CanOz


----------



## Trembling Hand

tech/a said:


> Where's the term "Cars" come from.
> Does T/H trade ships?




No one day I'd like to trade an Island.... 

Some time away though....... if ever!


----------



## tech/a

Closed my little VW for a 10 tick + 6037

Boring so up to TV now the reality shows are over!


----------



## boofis

The most encouraging frustrating morning ever. 
Start the day in sim and take one of the tight range setups, manage the trade well and it executes perfectly. 
Now at 122 open ticks...SIMULATION! !!!!
GHASHWLEF:OIWIEJ:OIWE:OIVW:OEIVJO:IWV:OIJWOI:JVWVEJOI:!


----------



## boofis

:1zhelp: :freak3:


----------



## CanOz

lol....what happened junior?


----------



## boofis

CanOz said:


> lol....what happened junior?




Sold 254, guess where my stop was :cussing: ****
This **** is bad for your health, bank account, social life, GAH beer time. **** you markets.


----------



## CanOz

boofis said:


> Sold 254, guess where my stop was :cussing: ****
> This **** is bad for your health, bank account, social life, GAH beer time. **** you markets.




Yup, sometimes you just got to walk away....utthedoor:


----------



## boofis

CanOz said:


> Yup, sometimes you just got to walk away....utthedoor:




heh true that. 

Well it was a nice night off and I'm back into it this morning with just as much foolish enthusiasm as every other day  

The biggest lesson learnt yesterday is just to be very aggressive when you actually see your setup forming instead of being aggressive when trying to get a trade cause you missed out on some good winners and the missus car rego is due.  

I hope if nothing else this thread serves as an insight into the process of trying to become a 'trader' and possibly deter anyone who wants to become a fulltime trader :


----------



## boofis

Update.

Still trading the seng everyday and simming every chance I get. 
Some things I've improved on/changed from reading Cambridge Handbook of Expertise and Expert Performance:
1. I now replay the morning session during lunch break and look where I traded and just observe what's actually going on. 
2. Trying not to have anything else open on the computer, or on my mind, while trading, as attention and working memory are two processes most taxed in the early stages of learning "X". 
3. Have been far more aggressive on entries but not taking as many also. 
4. Have all the food and water I'll need for the session next to the desk so I don't leave for any silly things. 

And trading specific:
Pro - Entries are better
Con - Not consistently picking up what kind of day 'type' it's going to be early enough.

Will post progress as progress comes, the journey of a thousand miles..


----------



## kid hustlr

Post some set ups!

Don't have to give away all your secrets or anything but a healthy discussion of the trades you are taking would surely be a good thing?


----------



## boofis

kid hustlr said:


> Post some set ups!
> 
> Don't have to give away all your secrets or anything but a healthy discussion of the trades you are taking would surely be a good thing?




Haha alright, I'll see whether any pop up this session.


----------



## boofis

boofis said:


> Haha alright, I'll see whether any pop up this session.




Hmmm, prob won't post any from today, poor poor poor day after a real encouraging day yesterday, it seems everytime I make some good progress the next day just becomes a huge **** up, which I definitely have to correct. Guess it's just the overconfidence, start throwing orders in silly silly silly. Slow and steady.


----------



## boofis

boofis said:


> Hmmm, prob won't post any from today, poor poor poor day after a real encouraging day yesterday, it seems everytime I make some good progress the next day just becomes a huge **** up, which I definitely have to correct. Guess it's just the overconfidence, start throwing orders in silly silly silly. Slow and steady.




It's a terrible thing to review the **** out of your losing days and discover that every single trade you took was just rubbish. That is where a false sense of confidence will get you, (Gringotts Bank, the proof is in this pudding regrettably) I had a ****ing tip tops attitude this morning after a great day yesterday, and wallah, took stupid trades, the monies did not flow into my wallet, but out of it. 




The purple dots are my entries, the black lines are roughly where I either got stopped out or had a good winner. 
Comparing all of the patterns to my trades today, I should not have taken any of these, not one single trade. :frown: What an idiot! 

For KidHustlr, here's a 'setup' I'm looking for and traded about as perfect as I have gotten it (this was in SIM to be clear) ...


----------



## CanOz

It takes a lot of heart to examine yourself when the open cuts are still bleeding...well done.

Difficult to relate to your first chart, are the entries long or short, or am i missing something?

Second chart, to me that setup is really solid, well executed.

In all honestly, i don't reckon anyone has any business trading futures live until they have a proven statistical edge from Sim Trading to apply, otherwise its a mighty expensive lesson on the account balance, and the emotional balance sheet. Spoken from hindsight.

CanOz


----------



## Trembling Hand

boofis said:


> The purple dots are my entries, the black lines are roughly where I either got stopped out or had a good winner.




You cannot tell if they are shorts or longs and therefore good trades or really dumb!


----------



## boofis

*Re: Scalping the HSI &amp; the K200  (SIM)*

Sorry, slight oversight on my behalf, bit different when you've got the trade log next to you. 
Updated: sorry, I'm really going for the stone age feel, I should get a bit more clarity on these things. 



- - - Updated - - -



CanOz said:


> In all honestly, i don't reckon anyone has any business trading futures live until they have a proven statistical edge from Sim Trading to apply, otherwise its a mighty expensive lesson on the account balance, and the emotional balance sheet. Spoken from hindsight.
> 
> CanOz




Maybe, and maybe I'm young and stupid. But I'm trading sim and doing replay sim aswell as everything I'm doing live, so surely this will speed up the learning curve.


----------



## CanOz

*Re: Scalping the HSI &amp; the K200  (SIM)*



boofis said:


> so surely this will speed up the learning curve.




this must add some psychological pressure....


----------



## boofis

*Re: Scalping the HSI &amp; the K200  (SIM)*



CanOz said:


> this must add some psychological pressure....




Yeah, probably. But it's impossible to remove psychological pressure  Regardless of whether you're a trillionaire or bum, people want to see results, you want to see results yourself, you've always got bills to pay to live the lifestyle you want etc. etc. I'm fairly convinced that there is never a good time for a person to try and become a trader, there's only less bad circumstances lol.


----------



## CanOz

*Re: Scalping the HSI &amp; the K200  (SIM)*



boofis said:


> Yeah, probably. But it's impossible to remove psychological pressure  Regardless of whether you're a trillionaire or bum, people want to see results, you want to see results yourself, you've always got bills to pay to live the lifestyle you want etc. etc. I'm fairly convinced that there is never a good time for a person to try and become a trader, there's only less bad circumstances lol.




Well, some people thrive on that pressure too i guess...

Just try and survive, keep your risk under control, it'll come...You're young and you have the time to put into it.

CanOz


----------



## boofis

*Re: Scalping the HSI &amp; the K200  (SIM)*



CanOz said:


> Well, some people thrive on that pressure too i guess...
> 
> Just try and survive, keep your risk under control, it'll come...You're young and you have the time to put into it.
> 
> CanOz




Thanks mate, one day


----------



## kid hustlr

Great write up. The set up with the explanations was really good. 

Don't be hard on yourself mate seriously if this game was easy everyone would be doing it. Stop worrying about what other people think.

Mind you apparently everyone makes 1000% a year return if you read that thread about EOFY returns so maybe you are just awful hehe.


----------



## boofis

kid hustlr said:


> Great write up. The set up with the explanations was really good.
> 
> Don't be hard on yourself mate seriously if this game was easy everyone would be doing it. Stop worrying about what other people think.
> 
> Mind you apparently everyone makes 1000% a year return if you read that thread about EOFY returns so maybe you are just awful hehe.




Cheers, I know there's a couple really good setups that I've nailed in sim just have to replicate it time and time again and not lose those good gains through stupid trading days like today where I traded silly ideas. 

Good to have someone else on the journey who hasn't yet 'made it' but will one day. 

Haha, seriously.


----------



## skyQuake

Something I like to do on the HSI is to hold on to longs (or shorts vice versa) till it makes a lower low (high high) on the 5min. 
This works very well when volatility picks up, as sometimes the trends can last quite a while.

In today's case it lasted about 10bars.


----------



## boofis

skyQuake said:


> Something I like to do on the HSI is to hold on to longs (or shorts vice versa) till it makes a lower low (high high) on the 5min.
> This works very well when volatility picks up, as sometimes the trends can last quite a while.
> 
> In today's case it lasted about 10bars.
> View attachment 53174




Thanks for joining in skyQuake, would you mind giving a bit more explanation on your thinking on a day like today?


----------



## CanOz

skyQuake said:


> Something I like to do on the HSI is to hold on to longs (or shorts vice versa) till it makes a lower low (high high) on the 5min.
> This works very well when volatility picks up, as sometimes the trends can last quite a while.
> 
> In today's case it lasted about 10bars.




Hmm, sounds like SuperTrend...


----------



## boofis

A trade for this morning. 
Tried to explain my reasoning to see whether it's coherent. 



Have also started to put together an excel file on historical data about how the open might give clues as to what day type it's going to be (as I'm still **** at twigging on to what kind of day it is). This is jus in addition to the notes I take in a journal on day type, hopefully a bit more of a combo of qualitative and quant showing the range etc. will see whether it yields any results in my trading.
E.g.


----------



## kid hustlr

wheres the entry?

I like your thoughts and summaries.


----------



## boofis

kid hustlr said:


> wheres the entry?
> 
> I like your thoughts and summaries.







Entry is the green arrow from watching the dom. Cause the price has visibly slowed up, looking to get on board as long as, or until, it breaks that bottom blue line in which case confirmation is that I'm wrong about the next moves direction.  

If you look where the blue dot is that green bar push upwards wasn't more than 30~40 ticks yet the price came back the whole way no troubles and start to see some big wicks which doesn't confirm the bias that the long direction is still in control. 

That's how I'm thinking at least when looking at this stuff, so will hopefully keep refining. 

From now on I'm starting to watch out for either a push back down or another upthrust as 1pm onwards generally sees some action. If this 755 holds as a retest of what was resistance then I'll look for continuation pattern long, if not I want a break of 720 to confirm short bias. 

:dunno: lol


----------



## boofis

And then thoughts on my attempted trades for the arvo. 
Was leaning towards steam running out on the upmove so I was looking to sell first but would be ready to scrap my bias if the ABCD came into play with enough volume buying.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

Seems like a lot of work you're doing there just to show us, I wouldn't do so much if it's taking away from your trading posting novels in here  

Any weird stuff going on in HSI atm? A real 120 lot just got taken out on CL with 150 sitting at the bid 2 levels lower, seems odd for this time of day.


----------



## boofis

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Seems like a lot of work you're doing there just to show us, I wouldn't do so much if it's taking away from your trading posting novels in here
> 
> Any weird stuff going on in HSI atm? A real 120 lot just got taken out on CL with 150 sitting at the bid 2 levels lower, seems odd for this time of day.




It's always going in the playbook anyway, and posting seems to help me keep the mouse out of mischief when I shouldn't be forcing trades so, six of one half a dozen of the other lol. 

Nothing extraordinary by my amateur eye.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

boofis said:


> It's always going in the playbook anyway, and posting seems to help me keep the mouse out of mischief when I shouldn't be forcing trades so, six of one half a dozen of the other lol.
> 
> Nothing extraordinary by my amateur eye.




Fair enough, just didn't want you to waste time putting it in here if it's taking away from your learning, forums can be quite distracting sometimes, but if you're writing it all out anyway then go for it, good stuff  

Hmm your eye would be better than mine, haven't watched the markets for ages, been sorting out some internet!


----------



## boofis

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Fair enough, just didn't want you to waste time putting it in here if it's taking away from your learning, forums can be quite distracting sometimes, but if you're writing it all out anyway then go for it, good stuff
> 
> Hmm your eye would be better than mine, haven't watched the markets for ages, been sorting out some internet!




Got pretty damn thin at the end of the morning session and opened with a fair thrust up but nothing weird but seng standards I guess. 

Hope you can get the net sorted


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

boofis said:


> Got pretty damn thin at the end of the morning session and opened with a fair thrust up but nothing weird but seng standards I guess.
> 
> Hope you can get the net sorted




Yeah got some sorted  gonna try and make crude my bitch now.........over the next 10,000 years of chasing my tail and not quite getting there hoping one day it will click lol


----------



## boofis

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Yeah got some sorted  gonna try and make crude my bitch now.........over the next 10,000 years of chasing my tail and not quite getting there hoping one day it will click lol




Haha, I wish you all the best, at least you've got the other gig to keep you afloat while you learn to master oil


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

boofis said:


> Haha, I wish you all the best, at least you've got the other gig to keep you afloat while you learn to master oil




Yeah that's the main reason I'll stick to crude, it's nice to read and I won't get home in time for the Seng.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

How do you get it to record trade stats in on market replay? Doesn't seem to be doing it!


----------



## CanOz

​


ThingyMajiggy said:


> How do you get it to record trade stats in on market replay? Doesn't seem to be doing it!




You have to select the market replay account


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

Yeah I have, doesn't generate anything even though I've done about a million trades, doing the stay-in-the-market-at-all-times-and-just-flip exercise


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

Ahhh hang on, didn't realise it had to be on the dates of the replay data to show the stats, I've got it set on today trying to generate, but I'm replaying thursdays/fridays data so it needed to be set on those dates then generated....kinda weird and annoying but oh well.


----------



## boofis

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Ahhh hang on, didn't realise it had to be on the dates of the replay data to show the stats, I've got it set on today trying to generate, but I'm replaying thursdays/fridays data so it needed to be set on those dates then generated....kinda weird and annoying but oh well.




It's a fairly handy function though, cause you can select time segments from your trading e.g. the 1st month, and observe your entire stats or specify for the day.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

boofis said:


> It's a fairly handy function though, cause you can select time segments from your trading e.g. the 1st month, and observe your entire stats or specify for the day.




What do you mean?

I can't seem to load the replay data very well so just using my own session from last couple days. 

First and second attempts, constantly in the market and just flipping(or adding to, up to 10 lots). Second time around I _tried_ to do the opposite of the first attempt, doesn't quite work as expected, bloody human nature 

All on CL.


----------



## boofis

ThingyMajiggy said:


> What do you mean?
> 
> I can't seem to load the replay data very well so just using my own session from last couple days.
> 
> First and second attempts, constantly in the market and just flipping(or adding to, up to 10 lots). Second time around I _tried_ to do the opposite of the first attempt, doesn't quite work as expected, bloody human nature
> 
> All on CL.
> 
> View attachment 53206
> View attachment 53207




I just mean in terms of being able to selectively show your stats for certain date ranges. I think that's a handy function NT has. 

The replay data on the stick? Make sure you're using the right contract month etc. that was my early mistake, as HSI continuous doesn't work for me so everytime I'm loading older data I have to use that specific contract and if I want to go earlier than 2011 I have to change the date on my computer and then NT syncs with it and you can load earlier charts, pain in the **** but it's the only way to do it.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

Better. Used 2 lots only. 

Dunno if I'm trading better or just getting to know this session too well haha, just using the same session. 

Oh just using the DOM for this too, no charts and using hotkeys to hit @ market at 8x speed, for those interested! Also only half as many trades with this time around.  

Obviously speed would be a factor live, as well as brokerage, but I want to go through a deliberate set of exercises and concentrate on one thing at a time until I'm satisfied, rinse and repeat, just need more data!


----------



## boofis

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Dunno if I'm trading better or just getting to know this session too well haha, just using the same session.
> 
> 
> View attachment 53208




Just an idea, but while reading Cambridge Handbook of Expertise and Expert Performance, I have been prompted to rehearse two different replay sessions: the first is purely observation of the price action as it takes place not doing anything but watching and thinking about what it's doing, where it's going etc. and not losing focus at all. The second is actual trade execution, so being able to watch and recognise correctly what's going on and then having the speed aswell as recall to be able to execute on the recognition that's taking place in your head. 

Just an idea as the whole theme of the book has been about deliberacy of action and participation of the time spent on the skill, aswell as a very formulated and step by step process to expertise under the guidance of a teacher/mentor. The latter being hard to come by in trading but we're definitely very lucky here on the forum with the old hands that kick about


----------



## skyQuake

Hot dang! Would have thought the HSI would go up 400 not down 400pts from the open!
I guess a 20pt rally on the ES ain't good enough anymore...


----------



## Trembling Hand

skyQuake said:


> Hot dang! Would have thought the HSI would go up 400 not down 400pts from the open!




Not me!  






> I guess a 20pt rally on the ES ain't good enough anymore...




Yep HSI and China are giving no respect for the US moves lately


----------



## boofis

Looks like some big action. Kudos on the fill TH, nice read. 
I'm only glancing at the markets today after receiving some less than average news late yesty arvo about family members health  
A day off and reminding myself there'll be plenty of more opportunities to 'make it' in the future.


----------



## Trembling Hand

boofis said:


> I'm only glancing at the markets today after receiving some less than average news late yesty arvo about family members health
> A day off and reminding myself there'll be plenty of more opportunities to 'make it' in the future.




Oh! that don't sound good. Yeah blow the markets. Does no one any good if you are, rightly, thinking about other stuff.


----------



## CanOz

boofis said:


> I'm only glancing at the markets today after receiving some less than average news late yesty arvo about family members health
> A day off and reminding myself there'll be plenty of more opportunities to 'make it' in the future.




Sorry to hear that mate...hope things have a turn for the better soon.


----------



## skc

boofis said:


> Looks like some big action. Kudos on the fill TH, nice read.
> I'm only glancing at the markets today after receiving some less than average news late yesty arvo about family members health
> A day off and reminding myself there'll be plenty of more opportunities to 'make it' in the future.




Sorry to hear and hope everything works out well. You know what the priorities are... get off the screen and get on the phone and talk with the families.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

Hope they're okay buddy  Just went through something similar myself, markets are always there tomorrow! 

Why can't all my entries be this good? 1 tick off the low! Sometimes we just fluke it right?  It made me all warm and fuzzy inside


----------



## boofis

Thanks for the thoughts guy, will just have to wait and see how it all turns out now. 

Sam, are you using data off the stick to do that replay?


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

boofis said:


> Thanks for the thoughts guy, will just have to wait and see how it all turns out now.
> 
> Sam, are you using data off the stick to do that replay?




No that was actually live at the time, not a replay. There's pretty much no CL data on the stick because it's all recorded during the honkers session so I'm recording my own for a few months and will be replaying it on weekends


----------



## boofis

ThingyMajiggy said:


> No that was actually live at the time, not a replay. There's pretty much no CL data on the stick because it's all recorded during the honkers session so I'm recording my own for a few months and will be replaying it on weekends




Ah kk, what are your intended trading hours eventually then if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

boofis said:


> Ah kk, what are your intended trading hours eventually then if you don't mind me asking?




Europe/London to US open possibly, depends when I get off work(different every day), how much sleep I can get etc. Because I need to be up at 4 every morning, so that kinda narrows it down a bit!


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

Ahh CL is great tonight, nice moves and super readable 

Half hours worth with 2 lots max before I nod off, it really helps after trading at 10x speed on replays then having a go on the live market, loving it  

P.S - boofis do you mind me using this thread or should I make my own?(or just shut up haha).


----------



## boofis

Yeah, that is a damn early start every day lol. 

Haha, I guess we should both ask CanOz whether we can use his thread! By all means post up how you're going 
Forgive the ignorance, what's your y-axis?


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

boofis said:


> Yeah, that is a damn early start every day lol.
> 
> Haha, I guess we should both ask CanOz whether we can use his thread! By all means post up how you're going
> Forgive the ignorance, what's your y-axis?




Cents up or down on the left and number of trades on the bottom


----------



## CanOz

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Cents up or down on the left and number of trades on the bottom




Sam, why not start a new CL thread, I've been practicing on it and gold for weeks now in preparation for a combine later. Would be happy to post the days practice results with you.

CanOz


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

CanOz said:


> Sam, why not start a new CL thread, I've been practicing on it and gold for weeks now in preparation for a combine later. Would be happy to post the days practice results with you.
> 
> CanOz




Shall do


----------



## boofis

First day really getting back into it after a somewhat draining week away from the computer. 

Finally got the hotkeys working properly for IBs book trader and the execution is so much quicker than with mouse. 
I've got buy and sell markets, buy and sell limits and cancel orders all on the keys now in familiar combinations.

Got to watch most of the arvo session yesterday and was very happy with taking a bread and butter trade selling 499 after the last push to a high with a slight descending top.

All of 2013 and most of 2012 1min charts (5min collection lagging behind lol) now printed out and in folders, still doing continued analysis on them as I start to recognise more characteristics of the seng.


----------



## Trembling Hand

boofis said:


> All of 2013 and most of 2012 1min charts (5min collection lagging behind lol) now printed out and in folders, still doing continued analysis on them as I start to recognise more characteristics of the seng.




So you finding in value in doing that?


----------



## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> So you finding in value in doing that?




Definitely. Some of the things I've noticed when looking at the static bigger picture have changed the way I process things as they're happening.


----------



## boofis

Just the one trade thus far, 29 tick winner (sim) on open. Nothing has turned up yet that fits the bill quite right. Fridays


----------



## Trembling Hand

Yeah very sloooow day. May nick off and have a look after lunch break.


----------



## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> Yeah very sloooow day. May nick off and have a look after lunch break.




I've got the 2min noodles cooking and the fuel in the mower. Extended lunch break!


----------



## Trembling Hand

Boy I have just about ground my back teeth down trying to hang on to size for a break low here.....


----------



## Trembling Hand

PTSD     :


----------



## skyQuake

Trembling Hand said:


> Boy I have just about ground my back teeth down trying to hang on to size for a break low here.....




Its trading just like the FTSE yesterday! A slow disgusting grind downwards


----------



## boofis

I've only been watching from the sidelines taking notes on this one. Not familiar action that's for sure. 

I've no doubts your profit is enough to cover a trip to the dentist :


----------



## Trembling Hand

skyQuake said:


> Its trading just like the FTSE yesterday! A slow disgusting grind downwards




Yeah I puked out on the second last low. Turns out not a bad trade. Though now cutting myself to bits trying to play a break higher..

Looks like there is someone just trying to peg it lower.... 

EDIT:
HA! Just like that,


----------



## Trembling Hand

Trembling Hand said:


> Looks like there is someone just trying to peg it lower....




And so that is what they wanted.... 





Its easy to know that "they" are doing when you have the Freemasons code.. :


----------



## boofis

Fairly funny feeling monday morning open. Will have a bias for it to put on a bit more range in the arvo, but will see whether that lasts. 1 winner 1 loser, back at b/e.


----------



## boofis

Craving getting back into the trading seat. Have been unable to most of this week due to unforeseen commitments but not for too much longer.


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## boofis

boofis said:


> Craving getting back into the trading seat. Have been unable to most of this week due to unforeseen commitments but not for too much longer.




Sold 367 just before I had to go with a 10 tick above arvo session high stop and a 315 limit buy. It looks to have really cleared the opening bar range coming back down but now stuck firmly inside it.


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## boofis

"...This is the process by which all elite levels of success are achieved: identify core competencies and build upon them, assessing what is working and what is not. 
You may find that just one or two patterns in one or two markets at one or two timeframes account for a large part of your success. Don't try to tweak what isn't working; figure out ways to capitalize on your core success in related markets, with steadily increased size.
Solution Focus is evolution in real time; we are selecting the strongest of our behaviour patterns and allowing the weakest to become extinct." 
B. Steenbarger.


----------



## boofis

Hmmm missed my one trade this morning trying to set up hotkeys on booktrader with a stop order attached with entry order. It entered my position but then stopped me out for 2 tick loss when my stop was set to 15 ticks.  Good to be back behind the screens though


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## Trembling Hand

This is how I had it set up. No hotkeys needed for bracket orders after entry.


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## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> This is how I had it set up. No hotkeys needed for bracket orders after entry.
> 
> View attachment 53498




Thanks mate, will give that a test run next trade.


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## boofis

wth, happened again. Placed my entry and it stopped me out for 2 ticks as soon as I placed entry


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## Trembling Hand

boofis said:


> wth, happened again. Placed my entry and it stopped me out for 2 ticks as soon as I placed entry




Show me a pic of your setting. Or i can just make something up.............


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## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> Show me a pic of your setting. Or i can just make something up.............




That time was a replica of your screenshot to see if it would do the same thing. Just on IB chat.


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## Trembling Hand

boofis said:


> That time was a replica of your screenshot to see if it would do the same thing. Just on IB chat.




Was it a long or short entry?


----------



## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> Was it a long or short entry?




Well that's odd, it worked fine that time, got long 314. 
The first trade was a long entry. Bad trade lol.
I didn't have a chance to figure out what the Key 4.2 and 4.1 are


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## Trembling Hand

boofis said:


> I didn't have a chance to figure out what the Key 4.2 and 4.1 are




They are order number and linked orders numbers.

Oh yeah. short 343ish


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## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> They are order number and linked orders numbers.
> 
> Oh yeah. short 343ish




Ah k, cheers. 
Nice fill if you caught 343


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## Trembling Hand

boofis said:


> Ah k, cheers.
> Nice fill if you caught 343




Wasn't much. Just closed. :


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## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> Wasn't much. Just closed. :




Kudos, didn't seem like there was much in the book to hit into.


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## boofis

Gotta love a 485 fill on a Tuesdy morning


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## Trembling Hand

boofis said:


> Gotta love a 485 fill on a Tuesdy morning




Ha I was right behind you....



cept I threw it out at 90 points just before cash open.,........


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## skyQuake

If I didn't know any better I'd say it looks like the contract expired today!


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## Trembling Hand

skyQuake said:


> If I didn't know any better I'd say it looks like the contract expired today!




yep........................ pegged.

I guess thats it for this sess. Latte anyone?


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## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> Ha I was right behind you....
> View attachment 53515
> 
> 
> cept I threw it out at 90 points just before cash open.,........




ha, right there with you, I got out on that second little push up that never made the first high...completely missed the 240 points there after! 

Talk about getting business done in a short space of time lol. Action packed one min, completely asleep the next.


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## boofis

Been enjoying a little something I poached off BMT that I've taken a liking to, it's prettttty if nothing else. 



A question just to quickly confirm my noob status: Cash open?


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## Trembling Hand

boofis said:


> Cash open?




Futs open at 11:15 melb time. The actual stock market at 11:30 = cash market open.


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## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> Futs open at 11:15 melb time. The actual stock market at 11:30 = cash market open.




Ah right, ignorance is bliss oops. Is there an IB code?


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## Trembling Hand

boofis said:


> Ah right, ignorance is bliss oops. Is there an IB code?




You never noticed the huge jump in volume and range at 11:30?

Try HSI Index!


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## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> You never noticed the huge jump in volume and range at 11:30?
> 
> Try HSI Index!




LOL, yeah but never had an attributable cause, always just thought it was the next move.

My eyes have been opened, so many hang seng indexes lol! Watchlist now temporarily complete.


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## kid hustlr

lol that's awesome


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## boofis

kid hustlr said:


> lol that's awesome




Not as awesome as the trading day I'm having though. Have made one process mistake but everything else is running like a rolex, albeit a cheap imitation rolex but still haha


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## kid hustlr

Good to know.

Quiet as a mouse here today, its very frustrating to be honest.


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## boofis

kid hustlr said:


> Good to know.
> 
> Quiet as a mouse here today, its very frustrating to be honest.




What you trading? Or do you mean ASF lol?


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## Trembling Hand

kid hustlr said:


> Good to know.
> 
> Quiet as a mouse here today, its very frustrating to be honest.




XT?
CPI tomorrow will mean a *lot *for the interest rate cut in a few weeks. Probably most have closed shorts the last few days and there is not much on the line till then.


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## kid hustlr

trading XT/YT I mean.

Agreed T/H, it was pretty heavily bid on the front end yesterday (shorts unwinding or guys front running the data?) but today it has been an absolute snooze fest. Was a classic both sides day. I hate them.


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## boofis

kid hustlr said:


> trading XT/YT I mean.
> 
> Agreed T/H, it was pretty heavily bid on the front end yesterday (shorts unwinding or guys front running the data?) but today it has been an absolute snooze fest. Was a classic both sides day. I hate them.




Ha! Snooze fest!? You try watching that bastard from 4am - 6am, some of the most unscintillating hours of my life. 
How are you progressing overall? You only trading ftse on your account or..?


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## boofis

Did you get a position before that sell of TH? I was trying to be patient and wait for a bit of a pop thinking they'd try get some more longs on board (I've been too early getting in on arvo trades on the whole) and I never got an entry, dang!


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## Trembling Hand

Nah fluffed it.


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## Trembling Hand

Well that fixed it.


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## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> Well that fixed it.
> 
> View attachment 53519




You get the pullback or fade?


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## kid hustlr

boofis said:


> Ha! Snooze fest!? You try watching that bastard from 4am - 6am, some of the most unscintillating hours of my life.
> How are you progressing overall? You only trading ftse on your account or..?




Yeah I mean 4am to 6am just seems like a nightmare to be honest.

FTSE is still all sim for now, I'm still useless and wouldn't risk real cash yet.

Bond trading progress is slow, one step forward one step back, I remember reading that thread a while back from the bill spreader who said it took him 8-10 months to get profitable and that the start is the hardest. I haven't really been losing money lately (touch wood) but just cant seem to get a run going. 

Still continuously building set ups though and ideas are starting to come together, its just about having as many plays in my playbook as possible and then being good enough to identify + execute them.


----------



## Trembling Hand

boofis said:


> You get the pullback or fade?




Yeah got on the last leg down. Was short at the top and for some reason scratched it a few times then went long...... god knows where my head was.  

Was clearly not at full speed last night. Nearly forgot about the closing time. Strange?!


----------



## boofis

*Re: Scalping the HSI &amp; the K200  (SIM)*



kid hustlr said:


> Yeah I mean 4am to 6am just seems like a nightmare to be honest.
> 
> FTSE is still all sim for now, I'm still useless and wouldn't risk real cash yet.
> 
> Bond trading progress is slow, one step forward one step back, I remember reading that thread a while back from the bill spreader who said it took him 8-10 months to get profitable and that the start is the hardest. I haven't really been losing money lately (touch wood) but just cant seem to get a run going.
> 
> Still continuously building set ups though and ideas are starting to come together, its just about having as many plays in my playbook as possible and then being good enough to identify + execute them.




http://cdn.preterhuman.net/texts/finance_and_marketing/stock_market/Brett%20Steenbarger%20-%20Psychology%20Of%20Trading.pdf

Have found this great, might be a good read for you also.

- - - Updated - - -



Trembling Hand said:


> Yeah got on the last leg down. Was short at the top and for some reason scratched it a few times then went long...... god knows where my head was.
> 
> Was clearly not at full speed last night. Nearly forgot about the closing time. Strange?!




 At least you could close a position in the eth if worst came to worst...I don't even want to think what it would feel like to have an open position when it was a 6:15 close until 11:15 the next day, talk about exposure!


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## boofis

Bought 833 sold 859....price currently at 900 haha damn.
HAHA! What a stop run haha woooo.


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## boofis

Key reflections: no clear trend, no strength either way but less strength going short. Not a break out play, fade time.


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## boofis

Bought 822, sold 860. 
Nearly puked at 833 after a bit of a squeeze. 
Process win: Entered aggressively when the market went against the direction of my bias, set limit order and didn't adjust it unnecessarily. 
Process fail: Didn't slow breathe while in the trade, also didn't choose a major target (prob lack of confidence if I'm honest) I chose a minor one instead.


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## skyQuake

How come your charts show funny times on NT? fwiw I think have a similar issue


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## boofis

skyQuake said:


> How come your charts show funny times on NT? fwiw I think have a similar issue




It only just happened the other day Quake, they used to run fine on the template I'd made with my comp on melbourne time and the chart session showing 11:15 till 2 then break etc. etc. but something has gone astray as I'm only able to get it to show the right data if I use the standard HKFE and change my comp time to Hong Kong time. Gonna have a play around this weekend. 
If you get a chance put up a screenshot of your session manager template aswell as data series what session template you're running.


----------



## Trembling Hand

Ask NT on their Forum.


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## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> Ask NT on their Forum.




The guy on there just told me to make a new template with the session times I wanted and to refer to the help guide. Which I'd already done a million times after restarts with no luck.


----------



## boofis

Seems like the seng is holding up (or xina50 down) relative to where they usually sit with each other... hmm.


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## boofis

TH did you have a function set for moving your orders up or down when you were using IB hot keys? It's the only one of my functions that isn't working still. It's preset is alt + up and alt + down but nothing happens if I do that combo with an order waiting, also tried changing the key combination to no avail.


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## boofis

After kind of resolving my time issue with NT session templates, I got to place one trade for the day. Which was a scratch! 
Process was good.


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## Trembling Hand

Terrible churny crappy inside inside yuky mucky day anyway!!


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## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> Terrible churny crappy inside inside yuky mucky day anyway!!




Yeah only half the price range average of recent times to boot. Does look like there were a couple nice stop sweeps in the morning session though!
Also, cannot get over how much quicker and accurate Keys are than the mouse.


----------



## boofis

Man 40 ticks open profit smashed back against me in that push short, wtf was that lol. 
Anyone know if there's a way to filter out (as it comes in, not readjusting historical data) block trades from showing on NT charts, I'm getting such terrible vol data now it's end of month I pretty much have to run the IB chart side by side.
This better push above 896!


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## boofis

40 tick open to 15 tick against in one 1min bar (  ) but the trade confirmation was still there so held on for a 54 tick winner, now looking for a continued long rally after a failed break to the shortside. Divergence on the lows but someone was really trying to keep that thing down and get some short traders on board phew.


----------



## skyQuake

boofis said:


> 40 tick open to 15 tick against in one 1min bar (  ) but the trade confirmation was still there so held on for a 54 tick winner, now looking for a continued long rally after a failed break to the shortside. Divergence on the lows but someone was really trying to keep that thing down and get some short traders on board phew.




UP AND AT THEM!


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## boofis

skyQuake said:


> UP AND AT THEM!




As per usual Quake I took my trade off too early (the scalper in me lives on ha!) so I've been here second guessing my next entry watching the move go what was my way ha. The joys, must work on the process of holding on to the bastard haha.
In Hindsight I should've been keeping more of an eye on the 5min chart as you suggested, if my memory serves me correctly I don't think i even looked at it during the trade. Another process fail, DOH.


----------



## skyQuake

boofis said:


> As per usual Quake I took my trade off too early (the scalper in me lives on ha!) so I've been here second guessing my next entry watching the move go what was my way ha. The joys, must work on the process of holding on to the bastard haha.
> In Hindsight I should've been keeping more of an eye on the 5min chart as you suggested, if my memory serves me correctly I don't think i even looked at it during the trade. Another process fail, DOH.




Its a lot harder on 1 contract where you can't take profits and let the others run.

Personally i think theres more gas in the tank, but waiting to see how this retrace plays out.

Also, anyone play around near the close of the HSI yesterday? My god that thing just wouldnt go down! Europe rolls over, then rolls over again, and the HSI chops down a little then snaps back up! (only to drop in post mkt session..)


----------



## boofis

*Re: Scalping the HSI &amp; the K200  (SIM)*



skyQuake said:


> Its a lot harder on 1 contract where you can't take profits and let the others run.
> 
> Personally i think theres more gas in the tank, but waiting to see how this retrace plays out




Yeah, I'm all in or all out, 1 lot warrior lol. 

I shorted 22033 and closed early cause I wasn't getting the speed which I thought it would push back a bit with. Hindsight ey.

- - - Updated - - -

 HAHA Wohhhh


----------



## Trembling Hand

*Re: Scalping the HSI &amp; the K200  (SIM)*



boofis said:


> I shorted 22033




Ha! Same.


----------



## boofis

*Re: Scalping the HSI &amp; the K200  (SIM)*



Trembling Hand said:


> Ha! Same.
> 
> View attachment 53561




I presume you however didn't cover waayyy too early! 

Random question, anyone know of a NT strategy/indicator that allows one to turn on say a chandelier or supertrend stop whenever you want and then turn it back off once you're done? 
I've toyed with running the supertrend as a gauge of a trailing stop but it's hard if an entry is initiated long while it's short for example or something similar as it can mess with decision making process

p.s. cannot believe that dropped to 896, had it pegged at 940 at BEST, what a short push!


----------



## boofis

skyQuake said:


> How come your charts show funny times on NT? fwiw I think have a similar issue




Are your charts still showing funny times Quake? The problem was resolved for me by going back to 938.1 version of TWS (I think CanOz suggested this months ago when my NT was working fine, should've listened!).


----------



## skyQuake

boofis said:


> Are your charts still showing funny times Quake? The problem was resolved for me by going back to 938.1 version of TWS (I think CanOz suggested this months ago when my NT was working fine, should've listened!).



938.1 fixed it good!


----------



## boofis

skyQuake said:


> 938.1 fixed it good!




Good. 

My charts are starting to look real ugly in these low volume times on the seng, yuck.


----------



## Trembling Hand

boofis said:


> Good.
> 
> My charts are starting to look real ugly in these low volume times on the seng, yuck.




What month you looking at?


----------



## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> What month you looking at?




Still on July


----------



## boofis

I hate points like this when there's an obvious line/lines that retail traders will be sticking to cause I'm never certain when some big fish will just wait for them to jump on board then blow it through hmm. Putting this one in the 'to work on' pile and sitting tight.


----------



## Trembling Hand

Probably Euro cash open she'll blow.


----------



## boofis

Trembling Hand said:


> Probably Euro cash open she'll blow.




What's your title of preference: Prophet? Mystic? Clairvoyant? Fortune teller? :blbl: haha.


----------



## Trembling Hand

Thank You - what ever will pay the highest......


----------



## skyQuake

Trembling Hand said:


> Thank You - what ever will pay the highest......
> 
> View attachment 53596




I didn't trust it cause it popped a little before UK open, thought it was a fakeout!


----------



## Trembling Hand

Bloody hell what  nutzbag crazies are running this show!!




Love being swept 85 points and the Honkers exchange stops taking trade messages from incoming carrier pigeons.


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## boofis

Prick of a day. Nuff said.


----------



## Pager

Could one of you Hang Seng traders tell me how the open works ?

I believe there is a lock down period as with the Spi so if you want to buy or sell the open you need your order placed before then, the Spi its 30 seconds before trade starts but I think it may be a full minute for the HSI so 11-14am (Sydney time) is the match out then trade starts at 11-15am.

Placed orders for years with a broker, but now with IB and on occasion need to buy or sell the open so im assuming limit order well above/below the expected open will get me set at that match out price as it does in the Spi.


----------



## Pager

Anyone ???

Also better check how this market closes as well, like the Spi, that is it trades right up until the close ? and at what time as i have seen 2 quoted one is HK time 4-15pm but another said HK 4-14pm ?


----------



## Trembling Hand

Pager said:


> Anyone ???
> 
> Also better check how this market closes as well, like the Spi, that is it trades right up until the close ? and at what time as i have seen 2 quoted one is HK time 4-15pm but another said HK 4-14pm ?




Pager I have never actually done the open auction so I don't know but I think the lock up is from 9:13 and the actual trade goes through at 9:14.

The close is trade right up to 4:14:59 (Or 4:15:00).


----------



## Pager

Great, thanks TH

As i thought for the close then, and i see there is now a night session so if i miss it then can get out when that opens, will just have to find out by placing orders for the open, tried the exchange website but cant find it anywhere


----------



## kid hustlr

Any updates boofis?


----------



## boofis

kid hustlr said:


> Any updates boofis?




Still trading


----------



## boofis

Pager said:


> Great, thanks TH
> 
> As i thought for the close then, and i see there is now a night session so if i miss it then can get out when that opens, will just have to find out by placing orders for the open, tried the exchange website but cant find it anywhere




Have you discovered through experience exactly how it works Pager? I'd be curious to know.


----------



## Sakk

Hi guys,

Ive recently started to trade the MHI as the first step before moving over to the HSI.

I primarily traded fx for several years however the low volatility and long hours waiting for a move was draining.  

I find the HSI very technical in its moves, plenty of volatility in the session to make plenty of points BUT it's fast and sometimes brutal hence I'm sticking with MHI until I have a good track record.

I use IB and Ninjatrader.  I only use a 1min and a Range 2 tick chart.  Main tools are price levels, pivots, hand drawn trendlines.  I basically look at how price reacts around certain levels, i generally have a very tight stop of 10points as i expect the trade to immediately keep moving in the trade direction.  Exits are similar but I find much harder as knowing when to let it run becuse this instrument likes to run  

So to the reason for the post. 

My main questions for the experienced HSI traders here are around the Risk of trading the HSI?  Such as Max slippage moves that can occur, exchange goes offline - what happens to open positions stops targets etc, the absolute do's and dont's specific to the HSI, whether to hold an open position through the lunch hour,  etc

Thanks

edit:  also in regards to commission, am I correct that with IB using Tiered commission is the lowest cost option.  I have calculated a RT on 1 contract on HSI is approx 40hkd as opposed to the fixed commission which is 60hkd?


----------

