# Rio Tinto executive held in China



## gordon2007 (9 July 2009)

'AUSTRALIA and China are on a diplomatic collision course after a senior Australian mining executive was arrested in Shanghai by secret police on charges of espionage and theft of state secrets'
http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,27753,25750342-462,00.html



I don't think this will have any affect on rio's share price. I am however, concerned about what this will do to the chinese\australian relationship. I'm wondering if this will turn into a chinese pride issue and also if it will turn into a western values against chinese values.


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## Aussiejeff (9 July 2009)

gordon2007 said:


> 'AUSTRALIA and China are on a diplomatic collision course after a senior Australian mining executive was arrested in Shanghai by secret police on charges of espionage and theft of state secrets'
> http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,27753,25750342-462,00.html
> 
> 
> ...




Confucious say - 

_"Man who try to scratch eyes of banker might lose whole face to banker's angry pet dragon" _


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## haunting (9 July 2009)

I am a keen China observer, take a look at my blog here if you don't mind some brainless prattles.


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## trainspotter (13 July 2009)

I liked the part where this happened "Where, precisely, are Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's fluent Mandarin and diplomatic finesse when we need them?" said an editorial in the Herald Sun.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...e-to-intervene-over-Rio-Tinto-detentions.html


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## So_Cynical (13 July 2009)

I was reading somewhere tonight that the RIO offices in Shanghai were bugged
and the Chinese arrested the RIO exec because they were gona be exposed.


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## jono1887 (14 July 2009)

trainspotter said:


> I liked the part where this happened "Where, precisely, are Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's fluent Mandarin and diplomatic finesse when we need them?" said an editorial in the Herald Sun.
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...e-to-intervene-over-Rio-Tinto-detentions.html




Just because he has good relations with the Chinese, does not mean that he has influence when the charges are espionage... in china, that is like the equivalent of terrorism in the US - just like Howard had no influence over Hicks when he was arrested and taken to Guantanamo, Rudd will have no influence here.


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## tasmart (14 July 2009)

jono1887 said:


> Just because he has good relations with the Chinese, does not mean that he has influence when the charges are espionage... in china, that is like the equivalent of terrorism in the US - just like Howard had no influence over Hicks when he was arrested and taken to Guantanamo, Rudd will have no influence here.




I think his influence may actually be part of the problem especially because of the Chinese style of negotiation 

Good article in the Australia today:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,25777529-5013565,00.html



> Australians doing business in China suggest that prime ministerial references to his prowess at Mandarin and his understanding of China are widely regarded as unbecoming boastfulness by the Chinese.


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## trainspotter (14 July 2009)

jono1887 said:


> Just because he has good relations with the Chinese, does not mean that he has influence when the charges are espionage... in china, that is like the equivalent of terrorism in the US - just like Howard had no influence over Hicks when he was arrested and taken to Guantanamo, Rudd will have no influence here.




Valid point jono1887. I think being caught in Afghanistan firing an AK47 at the U.S. troops and allegedly having supporting documentation on corruption on Chinese officials are just slightly different. But as you have pointed out the Chinese do operate in a different manner when it comes to state secrets. If Stern Hu has proof that officials are accepting bribes/graft/largesse to close the deal with Rio Tinto then he is in a world of pain. Not even our Mandarin speaking, ex Chinese Diplomat, Prime Minister would be able to save him.


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## gfresh (14 July 2009)

He is screwed. Some lessons are being taught, to both Australians (or any foreigners), and Chinese nationals as the place "seemingly" takes on capitalist ideals, that being the commies always call the shots... It has been that way through recent history. Just when they think they you are free, reel em back in and put the fear of god into them. Tibet, Tiananmen, Western Province, etc.


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## vincent191 (14 July 2009)

"Premier Hu Jintao understands how important that is. He obviously thinks it's far more important than whether or not China antagonises Australia or other Western countries and their companies. Lose, lose, lose."

I have being involved in the China trade in Steel making a few years ago. I strongly disagree with the statement above that appeared in the Australian. In the past it was more a case of BHP & RIO antagonising the Chinese. Australia back then has a near strangle hold over China's source of iron ore and coking coal.

I was involved in negotiations and we were told back then to watchout. Australia may have the superior bargaining position then but watchout....."you are not the only ones with iron ore & coal, there are plenty of comparable quality from Latin America, just wait until they catch up with their infra structure and capable of exporting large quantities...."

Now, years latter, how true was that statement. We now have a major competitor from Brazil - Vale. And as more and more Companies come on-line our position is getting weaker all the time. This applies not only to iron ore but also to coking coal.

IMO we should not take the Malcolm Turnbull approach and behave like a bull in a China shop. I say let the diplomats sort this out. Personally, I think this is just a show of strength by the Chinese. Hopefully it will all be sorted out without damaging the relationship. They need our resources and we need their money.

Most major companies in China employ security firms to regularly sweep their premises for bugs and listening devices. Nowadays they are so advance they do not have to plant them in the premises. They can bug conversations from across the street. Apparantly, some devices can pick up conversations from the vibrations on the window glass.

Here is a real story....many years ago a Western country (which shall remain unnamed) was building a new embassy. The Chinese as "a token of friendship" offered to build the embassy for them as a "gift". It was considered very rude to refuse so the Western country had to agree. After the embassy was finished they had their own people sweep the building for spying bugs.

Lo and behold, surprise, surprise the building was found to be "insecure".  The major problem was they can't complain to the Chinese and risk a major fallout. The final solution was the Western Country set fire to the entire building and burnt it down and blamed it on an electrical fault. They then approached the Chinese and asked them to "gift" another new building. This was firmly refused, "you careless foreigners" are getting too damn expensive. Hahahaha......that is diplomacy at it's very best.


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## shag (14 July 2009)

thats a great yarn, especially the twist at the end.

they have been portraying remote voice capture etc in films for years now. i was wondering when it started, how much data was left on the computers. maybe its so sophisticated now that it is all remotely held in secure facillities, especially with all of the laptops being lost nowadays.
some tech here must know if you can keep a perfectly clean computer yet, ie the cache etc is completely cleaned somehow after use.

maybe you could keep it all as ram memory.


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## Buddy (14 July 2009)

shag said:


> thats a great yarn, especially the twist at the end.
> 
> they have been portraying remote voice capture etc in films for years now. i was wondering when it started, how much data was left on the computers. maybe its so sophisticated now that it is all remotely held in secure facillities, especially with all of the laptops being lost nowadays.
> some tech here must know if you can keep a perfectly clean computer yet, ie the cache etc is completely cleaned somehow after use.
> ...




Try format c:/s 
Or keep you data on a portable drive with a Mission Impossible destruct mechanism.


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## gordon2007 (14 July 2009)

Buddy said:


> Try format c:/s




That's no where near secure enough in getting rid of data. Any 8yr kid worth his weight can get data back once it's been deleted.


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## xyzedarteerf (14 July 2009)

gordon2007 said:


> That's no where near secure enough in getting rid of data. Any 8yr kid worth his weight can get data back once it's been deleted.




that's correct this is better delete the partition + format, data can still be recovered though. the only secure harddrive is crushed one.

Here's what I would do first.






then this.
Hard Drive Crusher.


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## jono1887 (14 July 2009)

gordon2007 said:


> That's no where near secure enough in getting rid of data. Any 8yr kid worth his weight can get data back once it's been deleted.




What govt's need to implement is more secure portable data devices such as this - https://www.ironkey.com/technology






Apparently is hack proof - it even has a self destruct mechanism if the drive is pried open. 

But it is true that formating drives is essentially useless - its like having a filing cabinet full of files and labels... all you are doing is removing the labels. Anyone smart enough is able to still find those files.


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## Buddy (14 July 2009)

gordon2007 said:


> That's no where near secure enough in getting rid of data. Any 8yr kid worth his weight can get data back once it's been deleted.




Yes, OK, Correct. I was only trying to be funny. Sorry.
XYZ..etc's solution will probably work. 
Or you could try software called SuperShredder. Deleting your files using this program "zeroes" all sectors that the file was using.


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## gfresh (14 July 2009)

Back on topic.. looks like this is only the first step in a full crackdown on dealings in the iron ore industry.. 



> BEIJING -- Chinese investigators have questioned executives at several steel mills in a widening probe of alleged leaks of state secrets to Australian iron ore supplier Rio Tinto Ltd, Chinese media said.
> 
> The news comes as Australian officials urged China to move quickly in dealing with the detention of a senior Australian Rio executive on spying accusations, a case that has cast a shadow over bilateral trade worth $53 billion last year.
> 
> The broadening investigation targets some of the nation's largest mills, all influential members of the China Iron and Steel Association (CISA), which represents the Chinese industry in annual negotiations with global iron ore miners.




http://www.businessspectator.com.au...obe-widens-Australia-wants-TX5TG?OpenDocument


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## awg (14 July 2009)

trainspotter said:


> V But as you have pointed out the Chinese do operate in a different manner when it comes to state secrets. If Stern Hu has proof that officials are accepting bribes/graft/largesse to close the deal with Rio Tinto then he is in a world of pain. Not even our Mandarin speaking, ex Chinese Diplomat, Prime Minister would be able to save him.




If he had any evidence, he would be a fool if he had not kept ironclad copies and made sure that it was in secure hands, even that may not be enough to get his ass negotiated out of stern. 

I have no doubt that China is giving Oz and almighty kick up the bum, to show their displeasure over several matters, as I predicted on the RIO thread.

despite the plaintive protests of our govt, I believe they know what is going on, but they are powerless.

China is deliberately holding that fact up for clear view to all, not just Oz

dont muck with us, we can crush you, as in all powerplays

My prediction would be unless Oz abjects themselves,we will see some more powerplays, to ram the message home.

IMO Chinese businessmen are the hardest of all negotiators


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## xyzedarteerf (15 July 2009)

jono1887 said:


> What govt's need to implement is more secure portable data devices such as this - https://www.ironkey.com/technology
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It's made in CHINA RIGHT  veryoff topic my last post...


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## Macquack (16 July 2009)

Apart from any human rights violations by the Chinese, why should we be concerned for Stern Hu as an "Australian". The guy is a blow in.

Mr Hu (Hu Sh@tai) was born in China, lives in Shanghai, has spent less than 8 months in Australia, works for a multi-national company and has never worked a day in Australia.

Hu somehow became an Australian citizen but conveniently remained a Chinese Citizen. I understand if the Chinese government take a dim view of this action.

I applaud the Chinese for their intolerance of "bribery and corruption", while in the West it is considered an acceptable and standard tool of the trade.

I say, Stern your on your own, buddy.


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## trainspotter (17 July 2009)

Macquack said:


> Apart from any human rights violations by the Chinese, why should we be concerned for Stern Hu as an "Australian". The guy is a blow in.
> 
> Mr Hu (Hu Sh@tai) was born in China, lives in Shanghai, has spent less than 8 months in Australia, works for a multi-national company and has never worked a day in Australia.
> 
> ...




I'm going out on a limb here .. Maybe, just maybe that Hu is a double agent? Working both sides perhaps? Chinese got tired of being the bridesmaid?
Hu got caught feeding his masters (Rio) some classified info? Capitalism at it's best, no? The media does not know what to make of this one !!!!!!


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## long$$ (18 July 2009)

The iron ore situation is apparently very complex - see haunting

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=461773&highlight=rio#post461773

If haunting's post is close to the truth, perhaps Hu has thrown a spanner into someone's nice little earner, apart from the political ramifications of the iron ore trade.


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## long$$ (18 July 2009)

Also, China got a very good price for our gas - it would be interesting if that were being onsold.


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## trainspotter (19 July 2009)

Has anyone noticed that this has happened?

http://www.thebull.com.au/articles_detail.php?id=4771

It appears Chinas threats are not so idle afterall. 

I found it in an article from over there ----------------------------------->

Thanks for the info Joe Blow.


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## 2020hindsight (20 July 2009)

Then there's the question of what happens when someone has dual nationality.
I mean, if it's an advantage, then the safest thing to do would be to have 15 passports, and then they'd all hopefully help bail you out of a crisis.
Or conversely, if it's a disadvantage, so that each country (China in this case) was tougher on it's citizens than on visitors, then better to be a visitor, and not to have a local passport. 

As MacQuack asked elsewhere ( Rudd confidence thread), Is this bloke's chance of justice weakened because he also has Chinese nationality?

Better to have one master maybe? - Just a thought.

PS (like the missus maybe?)

Trainspotter - as for demand decreasing due to this incident, hopefully any blip in the orders will be shortterm -  (this too shall pass sorta thing) .
Certainly FMG seem to be happy enough.
Certainly also a sense of dealing with China with caution ..


> Meanwhile, Cape Lambert Iron Ore is one company exercising a more cautious approach to its negotiations with China, Mr Sage said.
> 
> "They haven't pulled back in wanting to do deals with us.
> 
> "However, from our point of view, we're going to be very careful in what we say and what we do and how we conduct our business with them."


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## noirua (20 July 2009)

To me this looks like a RIO Tinto matter as it was their bad management that over-reached the company so they needed to go cap in hand to China to bail them out in the first place.  China must have thought matters were a done deal and then RIO about turned as markets improved and said, piss off China your money is not good enough for us. 
China must have got the hump big time over this and would not want it to be seen that RIO had snuffed the mega-giant of China. 

China are the buyers in the market for iron ore in a buyers market. It is now for RIO to eat humble pie and apologize to China and make the peace, again.


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## 2020hindsight (20 July 2009)

one of those lose-lose situations


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## vincent191 (20 July 2009)

Why is this Hu detention become such a big deal? There is 91 Australians currently been detained in Dubai. Many have not been charged and are allowed little consular access.

Why hasn't the opposition raised this matter?


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## trainspotter (20 July 2009)

Sorry vincent191. The topic on the tips of the lips is Hu, China, Rio Tinto, Ruddy, U.N. membership, Corruption and graft, amongst other things. Not Dubai.
_
Stern Hu forgotten in Kevin Rudd's hopeless UN quest_

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,25805431-7583,00.html?from=public_rss Glenn Milne at his finest and some pretty good responses as well. Worth a read.


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## Macquack (20 July 2009)

trainspotter said:


> Sorry vincent191. The topic on the tips of the lips is Hu, China, Rio Tinto, Ruddy, U.N. membership, Corruption and graft, amongst other things. Not Dubai.
> _
> Stern Hu forgotten in Kevin Rudd's hopeless UN quest_
> 
> http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,25805431-7583,00.html?from=public_rss *Glenn Milne at his finest *and some pretty good responses as well. Worth a read.




Have to disagree with you again, Trainspotter.

Another piss weak story of tripe by Glenn Malign. 

First thing I noticed was the story had jack all to do with Stern Who, so why label it "Stern Hu forgotten in Kevin Rudd's hopeless UN quest"?

Glenn Milnes is "at his finest" after three gin and tonics followed by a chaser of Codral Cold & Flu. Just wish Stephen Mayne had taken that opportunity to knock some sense into the old drunk.


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## trainspotter (20 July 2009)

Gee, thanks Macquack ! If you read the rest of my post you would also see this: "and some pretty good responses as well." Some of the responses on the page I listed were worthy of a rederob and Macquack retort. Inciteful, opinionated, tactful and always truthful. Controversy sells newspapers.


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## GumbyLearner (21 July 2009)

How many major Chinese executives are arrestable for their activities in Australia? 

Maybe they are encouraging Aussie based boards to take their production off-shore? 

Arrest them immediately!


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## GumbyLearner (21 July 2009)

I say we arrest someone of equal calibre on some trumped-up dog****.

Why the heck not?

Tit-for-tat sounds like the cold war to me.

Why not the resource war?

You want our stuff? Ship it from Brazil for double the haulage otherwise don't play games. And develop slower on the back of no human rights or environmental sustainability standards. JUST ROLL OVER AUSSIES! 

Disclaimer: Sorry if I have offended any ASF members who happen to be shareholders in companies exposed to the China "boom".


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## GumbyLearner (21 July 2009)

I'm taking my bat 'n' ball and going home


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## 2020hindsight (21 July 2009)

trainspotter said:


> Sorry vincent191. The topic on the tips of the lips is Hu, China, Rio Tinto, Ruddy, U.N. membership, Corruption and graft, amongst other things. Not Dubai.
> _
> Stern Hu forgotten in Kevin Rudd's hopeless UN quest_
> 
> http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,25805431-7583,00.html?from=public_rss Glenn Milne at his finest and some pretty good responses as well. Worth a read.




Stern Hu forgotten ?  probably not
Interpretation of Rudd's UN quest ? probably inaccurate - and certainly not his personal quest
headlines deserving of Font #7 ( don't come no bigger) - probably not.


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## 2020hindsight (21 July 2009)

Meanwhile (when Milne sits down, and Metherill stands up) ...
an article worth reading ...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/20/2631388.htm?section=justin


> Garnaut calls for rethink of iron ore negotiations
> By Lexi Metherell
> 
> The detention of Rio Tinto executive Stern Hu has dominated what observers say have been the most bitter negotiations in years between iron ore miners and their Chinese customers.
> ...


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## 2020hindsight (21 July 2009)

PS - This is what Garnaut thinks of the clumsy discussions in the Aus media (typically quoting the Opposition who were stuck on full volume at minute 1) concerning Stern Hu and his colleagues to date (and whether it has helped their cause )  ... 



> LEXI METHERELL: Professor Ross Garnaut won't comment directly on the case of detained Rio Tinto iron ore executive Stern Hu and his colleagues in China.
> 
> ROSS GARNAUT: *More has already been said then [than] is in their interest.*
> 
> LEXI METHERELL: But he is prepared to discuss the system of iron ore talks they were involved in, when they were detained.  etc



http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2008/s2631221.htm


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## trainspotter (21 July 2009)

Thanks 2020 for the font jibe. In another forum there is a guy called Little Lord Font Leroy. I was aspiring to his lofty standards. It had the desired effect. I am sure of this.

When negotiations head South it is usually customary to take a hostage. Greater bargaining power etc. etc. This tactic has been around for centuries. The media (both sides) can print their opinions and we will hang off every word. China has an abhorrent record on human rights. Why change now?


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## 2020hindsight (21 July 2009)

Yep it's a delicate juggling act arright.
One the one hand they are the reason we are as wealthy as we are - and also why we might just crawl through without going into recession.  On the other, they sure aren't perfect on the human right's stuff. 

Personally I think Rudd and Co are doing a pretty good job walking the tightrope. 
Not sure than Milne could do better for instance. 
cheers


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## 2020hindsight (22 July 2009)

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2008/s2633488.htm


> WA Premier exasperated by attention on Stern Hu case.
> Transcript available shortly.




gee whiz lol
seems to have cut the legs out from under you blokes who want to pin it all on Rudd


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## Garpal Gumnut (22 July 2009)

2020hindsight said:


> http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2008/s2633488.htm
> 
> 
> gee whiz lol
> seems to have cut the legs out from under you blokes who want to pin it all on Rudd




Mate, you should never quote the abc in rational debate. Its a bit like quoting Pravda.

They are so left they make the cfmeu look like good catlick choirboys

gg


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## 2020hindsight (22 July 2009)

hey gg , I'm not quoting ABC - I'm quoting your mate, Colin Barnett.  

Here's that transcript - finally - 
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2008/s2633488.htm



> MARK COLVIN: He did say yesterday I think in Shanghai *that we should stop fussing about Stern Hu.*
> 
> TOM IGGULDEN: Indeed and he's reiterated that again today saying that Australian business has to quote him "dropped the ball" when it comes to Stern Hu and that we should be really focussing on getting on and doing business.
> 
> ...



I don't agree that you can ignore the Hu case - 

but likewise, you can't pin everything on Rudd (and between Rudd and Barnett, you'd have to say that Rudd is the far more concerned.  Barnett goes close to writing off Hu as a lost cause yes?) 

If you want to achieve some progress for Stern Hu, then don't keep crowing about it (even before any evidence was out), or rather trying to turn it into a political football.  They are acting on it in the background.  .


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## trainspotter (22 July 2009)

Political football 2020? TOO LATE. The Chinese warned Rudd not to go this path and yet he got the Americans involved via "humanitarian issues". This only proceeded to rely on second hand info after the Chinese decided to let Hu speak to the Oz consulate?? Colin Barnett is Garpal's mate ? I had Colin on speakerphone the other day and he made no mention of a certain Mr Gumnut to me??


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## 2020hindsight (23 July 2009)

trainspotter said:


> Political football 2020? TOO LATE. The Chinese warned Rudd not to go this path and yet he got the Americans involved via "humanitarian issues". This only proceeded to rely on second hand info after the Chinese decided to let Hu speak to the Oz consulate?? Colin Barnett is Garpal's mate ? I had Colin on speakerphone the other day and he made no mention of a certain Mr Gumnut to me??



Hell - I had GG on speaker the other day, and he says he knows him well ??

Like the source of his that said that Peter Costello was gonna take over Lib leadership lol. 

PS , Still I expect Milne to write equally strongly against Barnett.  (Maybe he has already? - you might know)


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## 2020hindsight (23 July 2009)

trainspotter said:


> Political football 2020? TOO LATE. The Chinese warned Rudd not to go this path ...



Trouble was Malcolm Turnbull and Co (within hours of the news of the arrest breaking) - and Milne of course - were warning him that if he didn't go this path ...  etc. 

Are you now saying Rudd should NOT have acted.  Hard to keep up with you blokes


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## pcr_bull (23 July 2009)

Hummm... food for thought!  I feel it wont affect share price or trade relations in the future.  Its quite timely it managed to draw world headlines from the recent genocide of minorities in the western regions. I feel its part of the national action plan to divert the news headlines presented as they have billions to loose in the Xinjiang region.  A small price for upsetting RIO and a minor speed bump for world trade relations in China.  Once Western china is silenced all will be forgotten about, RIO gets released and everything back full steam.

Only my view...


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## trainspotter (23 July 2009)

2020hindsight said:


> ok ok
> getting a bit shrill there ts.
> 
> 1a. How well do you now garpul lol? (PS I'm simply quoting a thread back there - look at the link, - it's ancient history I concede, but you'll catch up).
> ...




*Sorry it has taken so long to reply to your post 2020. I had to see the doctor and have my funnybone put back in. *

1a) Garpal is notorius for his ability to say something outlandish and the pack will swarm around his comments like flies to ****. It is bloody funny to watch and I am sure he gets a kick out of it. Have you not noticed?? By the way, fully aware of the thread he created. It seems you take things a little too seriously 2020.

1b) How did you know I was talking to you? You seem quick to respond when poked?

2 & 3) It is his job to behave in this manner. That's why they call it opposition. Surely you of all people would be able to grasp this concept? What I have CONSISTENTLY implied is that our beloved commander of the good ship "Credit Card" has tripped over his dick on this one. I can speak Mandarin, I am an ex Chinese Diplomat. I am getting nowhere, call in the Yanks. Nothing seems to have worked. 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/17/2628411.htm read the last sentence.


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## Miner (24 July 2009)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/23/2634561.htm?section=justin
Self explanatory for those who want to do business in China


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## trainspotter (24 July 2009)

*crackle* Sorry guys and gals. Can we lay of the mod squad please. I am getting a tad nervous with all this chattering on the radio. Victor Charlie Charlie, over and out. _____________________ transmission end.

Back to the topic of the thread.

Could it be sour grapes by the Chinese after the 195 billion joint venture with Rio Tinto? You know, to save a bit of face. They pulled out of the deal and under the disguise of "industrial espionage"? Someone smarter than me has probably already written this.

"If the Rio arrests mark the beginning of a Chinese war to remake the global ore market more to China’s liking, Beijing might want to think again…Ensuring nobody wants to do a business deal with China for fear of being charged with a death penalty crime hardly improves the case." Plagarised to the point of cut and paste from another website. (but sums it up nicely I thought)


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## Buddy (12 August 2009)

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,25918664-5005200,00.html

Haaaaa, missa chinese bossman, I velly confoosed over tis. Ferse yousay missa Hu blibe udder pleeple, now yousay he takada cash. Haaaa, which one isit? Maybe you all wingada wong number.

So did Hu bribe others, or receive bribes, or both? If any of this is proven then there will be some interesting times ahead for Rio. How are they going to explain this?  This sort of stuff is also illegal in "the West".

So if this isn't a giant dummy spit by the Chinese for loosing out on Rio, then I'll walk backwards across the Irish Sea. Maybe in China they do things their way but I think the Chinese (gummint, China Inc, etc) is having a big lesson on how business is done in the West. So what if they don't like it.  IMO the Chinese have scored an own goal on this one.


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## Miner (13 August 2009)

Interesting news today

First of all Mr Hue has been relieved from espionage and now charged for bribing the Chinese officials

Secondly Sam Walsh relieved and ready to fight in court. I heard in ABC and all he kept on saying that whatever Hue did was known to his managers. INteresting as if he gets stuffed then few managers will be beheaded economically too

Mrs Hue decided to join reuniion at university. 

All good news and why not

Some cynism is our protection to citizen in overseas seems to be very much behind the scene

As I heard in radio about the behind the scene work for Mr Hue begs the question how much were paid to another set of Chinese government officials to down grade his espionage claim ?

What Rio really did to Chinese lords so that they thought enough is enough. 
You got the lesson and now don't stuff up any more 

One of the Rio executives also said in a tacit way that bribing to others is an acceptable commercial practice.

So just 2+2 = 4 or 5 (if I include the bribes included in 5)


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## doctorj (13 August 2009)

Miner said:


> Interesting news today
> 
> First of all Mr Hue has been relieved from espionage and now charged for bribing the Chinese officials
> 
> ...



I don't think the charges were reduced by bribery, but rather the Chinese Government/Politburo realising there are larger things at play.  Can you imagine Wayne Swan approving Yanzhou Coal Mining Co's takeover of Felix Resources with an Australian citizen facing the death penalty on what was a trumped up charge?  Can you imagine the impact on foreign investment in China were they to press for espionage charges?

In any case, who cares the reasoning for it.  No longer being charged with stealing state secrets means they no longer face the death penalty.


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## LeeTV (13 August 2009)

*Rio Tinto employees formally arrested by China*
The group could well end up on trial on corporate espionage charges but seems to have escaped the charge of stealing state secrets

_Author: Chris Buckley
Posted: Wednesday , 12 Aug 2009 _
http://www.mineweb.co.za/mineweb/vie...7398&sn=Detail

BEIJING, (Reuters) - 

Chinese prosecutors have formally arrested four employees of Anglo-Australian mining giant Rio Tinto on suspicion of obtaining commercial secrets and bribery, the official Xinhua news agency reported on Wednesday.

Australian Stern Hu and three Chinese staff of the world's second-biggest iron ore producer are suspected of "using improper means to obtain commercial secrets about our country's steel businesses", Xinhua cited prosecutors in Shanghai as saying.

The commercial secrets charge can bring jail terms of up to 3 years, or 7 years in "especially serious" cases [ID:nPEK372992]. The procuratorate, or prosecutors, also approved their arrest on suspicion of "commercial bribery", said the Xinhua report.

Xinhua did not mention accusations of stealing state secrets, a sweeping charge raised in earlier reports, which can attract tougher sentences.

"The procuratoratial organ conducted investigations and believes that it has evidence for suspecting the four, including Stern Hu, of the above crimes," said the Xinhua report.

Hu and the three other members of Rio Tinto's Shanghai-based iron ore marketing team -- Liu Caikui, Ge Minqiang and Wang Yong -- were detained on July 5. Hu, a Chinese-born Australian citizen and head of the team, was accused of obtaining the Chinese steel industry's negotiating stance in iron ore price talks, sources have said. Iron ore is used to make steel.

The Rio case has cast a shadow over Australia-China trade, worth $53 billion in two-way terms in 2008. But China's sidelining, for now, of the graver state secrets accusations may indicate an effort to cool political contention over the matter.

"That lowers the temperature," said Jerome Cohen, an expert on Chinese law at New York University, speaking of the absence of the state secrets accusations.

"That puts this as a white collar crime, a commercial crime, and not espionage involving state secrets."

Chinese Vice Minister of Commerce, Fu Ziying, told a news conference in Beijing the case would receive a "fair verdict" -- a term suggesting a trial is certain -- and said it showed his government wanted to create a fair and open marketplace.

"I believe this case will not, and should not, affect the healthy and stable development of Chinese-Australian bilateral trade and economic relations," he said.

The arrests do not amount to a decision to go to trial but allow authorities to continue investigating, said Mo Shaoping, a prominent criminal lawyer in Beijing.

"The arrest means the suspects remain in detention and the police can continue investigations, usually for up to two more months," Mo told Reuters.

Cohen said that without the state secrets accusations, which authorities can use to justify keeping suspects entirely isolated, the Rio suspects stand a stronger chance of being allowed to see lawyers.

Rio Tinto's shares have fallen about 5% from their close at the end of last week of A$60.57, before a weekend report from China that said the company had been spying for six years.

The shares were at A$57.35 by 0400 GMT on Wednesday.

Rival BHP Billiton (BHP.AX: Quote)(BLT.L: Quote) has fallen about 1.3% to A$37.50 over the same period and the benchmark Australian S&P/ASX 200 index has risen about 0.6%.

NO COMMENT FROM RIO

Rio Tinto declined to comment when contacted by Reuters about the arrests. Rio has previously said the four did nothing wrong.

Australia's Foreign Ministry said Australian diplomats in Shanghai were informed of the arrests late on Tuesday but a spokeswoman refused to comment on whether China had softened its position by using the commercial secrets charge.

"We are not prepared to speculate, though the range of possible penalties under these articles is less severe than for state secrets," the spokeswoman said.

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has warned China it had significant economic interests at stake in detaining Hu and that the world was watching how it handled a case that has highlighted the risks of doing business in the world's third-largest economy.

Australia exported $15 billion worth of iron ore to China in 2008, accounting for 41% of China's iron ore imports in that period.

The Xinhua report also said that in recent days Chinese steel executives had been formally arrested on suspicion of "providing commercial secrets" to Hu.

An online article published in a magazine run by China's state secrets agency at the weekend said Rio spied on Chinese mills for six years, resulting in the mills overpaying $102 billion for iron ore, Rio Tinto's biggest earner.

The Australian government on Tuesday dismissed the Chinese report, which had rattled investors.

"I think they (China) wanted to get the bad PR behind them as much as they could but at the same time get a message out to corporations operating in China," Scott Harrison of Pacific Strategies and Assessments, an Asia-focused risk consultancy company, told Reuters of the formal arrests.

"Although it may reduce international pressure, at the grassroots level I don't think its going to reduce the concerns of companies operating here," he said.

(Additional reporting by Emma Graham-Harrison in Beijing, Joseph Chaney in Sydney and Rob Taylor in Canberra; Editing by Dean Yates)


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## queenslander55 (13 August 2009)

Miner said:


> ...First of all Mr Hue has been relieved from espionage and now charged for bribing the Chinese officials...




Gratuities, bribes if you will have been an integral part of Chinese commerce for 3,500 years.  They invented the practice!

Of course the real reason these guys were arrested was that the big guys were pissed off that they couldn't get their own way with Rio!!!


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## tech/a (13 August 2009)

Your kidding.
You mean under handed palm greasing actually happens in the world of business.
Good God.


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## jono1887 (13 August 2009)

lol... so naive


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## Calliope (31 March 2010)

China did not take kindly to criticisms by Stephen Smith that the 10 year sentence for Stern Hu was harsh. By Chinese standards it was quite moderate. A Chinese national would probably have received a death sentence.


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## Macquack (31 March 2010)

AAP 
March 23, 2010


> Meanwhile, an Australian expert says *Hu could walk free*.
> 
> *Ron Huisken, a China expert with the Australian National University's strategic and defence studies centre*, said the guilty plea could be part of an arrangement which would free Hu, who has been in prison since July.
> 
> ...




Good call Dr Huskey. 
So much for the experts.


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## Julia (31 March 2010)

Macquack said:


> AAP
> March 23, 2010
> 
> 
> ...



Maybe save the congratulations until it actually happens.


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## trainspotter (21 April 2010)

If you change the letters around on Rio Tinto they become RioT into. Nothing to do with BHP.

BHP Billiton says it is cooperating with US authorities in an investigation into possible corruption involving government officials. 

The miner would not say where the possible violations occurred, except to say that they did not involve China, or BHP Billiton's marketing or sales activities.

The company said the matter related "primarily to certain terminated minerals exploration projects".

Information about the investigation was included in the company's quarterly exploration and development report, which was released this morning.

BHP Billiton said it had provided information to the US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) "following requests for information" from the Commission "as a part of an investigation relating primarily to certain terminated minerals exploration projects.

http://www.news.com.au/business/bre...staff-corruption/story-e6frfkur-1225856253649


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