# Reinvigorate ASF as a stock forum



## nioka (20 July 2010)

Over the last couple of years I have found ASF to have less and less use as a stock forum where you keep up to date with your favourite stocks. The home page is usefull in providing a daily update on the general market and a hint of what the day may bring forth.The information that can be gleaned from contributing members on most stocks is limited.

Let us do something about it before it is too late. Post news on a stock when you know something that may help others. That is what I log on for. Most of the rest is entertainment and sometimes not very good entertainment.


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## son of baglimit (20 July 2010)

nioka said:


> Over the last couple of years I have found ASF to have less and less use as a stock forum where you keep up to date with your favourite stocks.
> 
> Most of the rest is entertainment and sometimes not very good entertainment.




HERE HERE

lets face it, under the glory years of the howard government and the mining boom and low interest rates and wealth creation and targeting spending on infrastructure (NOT) and massive government surpluses and greed is good the good folk that is ASF were happy as a pig in........... with nothing in their way to prosperity.

then along came the evil, all destructive lefties to ruin the paradise, plunging not only their own country but seemingly the whole world into a spiral of debt and heart break and social unrest and high(er) interest rates and inflation and boat people - all in the space of a few months.

so as one of the resident lefties (i deny it but if thats your name for me then so be it) i sincerely apologise for ruining your paradise. if theres anything i can do to resurrect this stock forum into its original form, THAT OF A STOCK FORUM, then i will do what i can.

P Costello in late 2007 said "we have a financial tsunami coming" - funny how he predicted that, assumingly on the basis of labor being voted into office soon after and ruining paradise - certainly NOTHING to do with right wing policy in the preceding years.

i vote ASF be returned to a stock forum, and not the 

ANDREW BOLT FAN CLUB FORUM


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## johenmo (20 July 2010)

Agree in general.  Musn't lose the educational aspects of it.  Very useful for newcomers.  I don't log on for AFL etc but have been known to comment on the odd non-stock thread.  Maybe these threads provide something for others - just not for me.


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## gordon2007 (20 July 2010)

nioka said:


> Over the last couple of years I have found ASF to have less and less use as a stock forum




I agree with your sentiment, however I don't really think it's the boards fault per se. Look how many people are actually out of the market full stop at the current time. What else are they to talk about if they're not actually investing\trading.


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## tech/a (20 July 2010)

Ive suggested this before but seems that there isnt an interest.

Most discussions of trading ideas get lost in the Q&A which follows.
I suggest that if something is being demonstrated to follow as in say the Volume thread that it can be locked by the person showing the ideas with a separate thread for questions.
That way you can at least follow it.
I know moderation status has to go with that capability but if its abused just take it away.

There are some serious analysts here who are sick of all the rubbish filling up their threads.
It takes sometimes hrs to present charts and examples.
You soon get sick of spending the time and effort when it all gets lost!


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## GumbyLearner (20 July 2010)

tech/a said:


> Ive suggested this before but seems that there isnt an interest.
> 
> Most discussions of trading ideas get lost in the Q&A which follows.
> I suggest that if something is being demonstrated to follow as in say the Volume thread that it can be locked by the person showing the ideas with a separate thread for questions.
> ...




In no way can I compare my knowledge of the market to tech/a. *That's why I'm a member!*

But I'm a member of this forum and given time I'm sure I can learn so much more.

I agree that this forum has been hi-jacked with politics.

I would prefer this to be forum where I can read threads I'm interested in.

Surely the mods could come up with a piece of code that would block out the political banter. So that the helpful contributors could be focused on!

Just my


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## Julia (20 July 2010)

GumbyLearner said:


> I agree that this forum has been hi-jacked with politics.
> 
> I would prefer this to be forum where I can read threads I'm interested in.
> 
> ...



For heaven's sake, all you have to do is just not read the political threads!
Just pretend they're not there, Gumby.  
I notice your distaste for political threads doesn't prevent your contributing to them.

The forum has been lacking in interesting content lately.  It's not anyone's fault.  I agree that many are out of the market at present so it's pretty natural that there isn't much in the way of scintillating stock discussion.

I do wonder sometimes if potentially valuable new members may be put off when they post a newbie query, or question a strategy put up by an existing member and are met with arrogant and dismissive responses.  Don't think I'd be hanging around for more of the same.


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## CanOz (20 July 2010)

Wow Nioka, talk about read my mind. I was thinking on the weekend how its like 'spot the stock thread' time. 

I could not agree more, more analysis, more trades posted! 

I love the macro view too!

You know really, this is the time you learn the most about the markets, when they're bloody hard to trade! (day traders aside)

Bring it on, more charts, more fundy stuff, etc.etc.

Cheers.



CanOz
Faithful supporter


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## GumbyLearner (20 July 2010)

Julia said:


> For heaven's sake, all you have to do is just not read the political threads!
> Just pretend they're not there, Gumby.
> I notice your distaste for political threads doesn't prevent your contributing to them.
> 
> ...




Well why is it interesting?

Because of the politics or the investment potential?

Yeah sure you can dismiss the arrogance of well practiced traders.

But do you think it not possible that they feel the same way about political banter wannabe info-seekers?  

Come-on be fair! A lot of these traders do this for a living. They are not bigotry-exit counsellors or something. They are only members for the stocks. Surely you can see it from their side.


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## Sean K (20 July 2010)

Julia said:


> I do wonder sometimes if potentially valuable new members may be put off when they post a newbie query, or question a strategy put up by an existing member and are met with arrogant and dismissive responses.  Don't think I'd be hanging around for more of the same.



Yes, I agree Julia. I've actually been responsible for this myself some time ago when newbies turned up seemingly ramping, but just didn't know the code. The more experienced people here need to take a step back sometimes.


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## nioka (20 July 2010)

GumbyLearner said:


> I agree that this forum has been hi-jacked with politics.




Don't get me wrong. I dont want to see politics or any other topic banned or restricted. I just want to see ...........MORE STOCK CHAT.

If it hadn't been for ASF I may never have bought ADI, AGM or AOE, my best performers. Other forums are outperforming ASF at 200 to 1 in posts about stocks now. Instead of just voting ASF the best.... make it the best.


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## basilio (20 July 2010)

It would be great to reinvigorate ASF as a stock forum. Trouble is the stock market has been sick as a dog for a couple of years now.

As a result I think many members have been burnt and probably less inclined to keep trying to come up with new investment opportunities. After all there is just so much money one can lose before it all gets a bit too hard. I think it would be a rare member who did not take a beating with some of the big collapses in 2008-9. 

I have to say I have enjoyed and benefited from ASF. I picked up a few very good results from the research and analysis done through this forum. (And I hope I have also contributed to the conversations)  So lets appreciate that.

One thought though. I have firmed up in my belief that much of the money made in stock markets is not on the quality of the shares but the effectiveness of the ramp.  If enough people can be persuaded that a share is a good thing their interest will cause a decent self perpetuating but short term price rise.  It seems to me that this is where the quickest but probably most unethical profits are made. I think in a stagnant to falling market there is just far less capacity to create this sort of profit.

On a big picture scene I can't help feeling that there is a groundswell of nervousness about the investment scene overall. (I note that a number of contributors  are largely out of the market. )There is no resolution of  the huge debts that are overhanging every economy. There are legitimate fears that external issues like climate change and peak oil will create black swan events that will make the GFC look like a picnic. In that context it is very hard to paint a rosy picture.

Perhaps the expansion of the non stock conversations to constructive ideas and opportunities beyond the  strictly narrow confines of the stock exchange will be a good way for people to use their skills more effectively.


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## nioka (20 July 2010)

basilio said:


> It would be great to reinvigorate ASF as a stock forum. Trouble is the stock market has been sick as a dog for a couple of years now.
> 
> As a result I think many members have been burnt and probably less inclined to keep trying to come up with new investment opportunities. After all there is just so much money one can lose before it all gets a bit too hard. I think it would be a rare member who did not take a beating with some of the big collapses in 2008-9.
> 
> ...




The market is not sick. It is depressed and in this case depression is not a sickness, it is a condition. In its condition it is full of opportunity. Opportunities that would not normally be available. 

eg, Before the GFC I would have needed $2,000,000 to buy the CER and CNP stock that cost me $30,000. Now think about this: They still own most of the property and they have less debt. The shares are now worth around $200,000 and have plenty of prospects of future advances. The asset is in property. The property has not gone away.

People get over being burnt. Sometimes getting burnt can help in the end. It is a case of getting back up on the horse and having another go. Actually getting burnt had a bearing on my investing pattern, a different sort of burning. I blew up my boat, spent weeks incapicated and had plenty of time to do research on stocks. 

Adverse conditions do create opportunities. A good stock forum will help examine and create opportunities. I consistantly promoted the proposition of trading between ADI,AUT and EKA on these threads and have had several people personally thank me for introducing them to that proposition. In turn I got my inspiration from Agent who kept us informed about those stocks. Discussions relating to CER on another forum gave me an insight into the complicated structure with CER and CNP which allowed me to make an informed decision based on fact.

Sure there are rampers, up and down. It doesn't take long to sort them out.

Lessons to learn from the GFC;
 Don't speculate with money you can't afford to lose.
 Be careful with borrowed money, if you lose it you still owe it.    
 Fundamentals are more ikely to predict the future than charts. and
 If you are going to ride the horse again then you have to get back up and have a go.


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## CanOz (20 July 2010)

nioka said:


> Fundamentals are more ikely to predict the future than charts.




Mate, if you using anything to predict the future then you are just trying to be right all of the time instead of being profitable.

Use math, it works much better.

Now i recall why i don't participate.

Thanks,


CanOz


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## pixel (21 July 2010)

hmmm - here I was, reading all those great suggestions, and intending to add one of my own:

*Can it be made easier to insert a chart into a stock discussion?* "that other place" lets us upload and insert images into the post itself, rather than finding another website to upload, then inserting a picture by URL to that location.

... and then I stumble across nioka's bald statement:_ "Fundamentals are more likely to predict the future than charts."_
*
Didn't know anybody could actually predict the future.* Even Sir Alan Greenspan admitted "despite extensive efforts on the part of analysts, to my knowledge, no model projecting directional movements in exchange rates is significantly superior to tossing a coin."
(source: http://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/speeches/2003/20031120/default.htm)

For more than a decade, I've tried to drag newbies out of the misconception that fundamentalists aren't tiring to rope them in with. Firstly, no matter how diligently you do your fundamental research, the results of your calculations - yield, p/e, profit margins,... - are only valid till the next Annual Report. Secondly, even if every one of your fundamental calculations proves true, the Market need not share your opinion, but hold some sentiment against or way above your "valuation". Thirdly, and most importantly: Assuming you have foretold the future of a company, that will all too easily lure you into a "The market will come to its senses. I'm right. This is a stock to hold on to till I die" conviction.

In contrast, a chart - done properly - doesn't pretend to predict anything; it simply plots factual trades. If the price goes up on rising volume, you see it and know you can hold on to this stock, maybe even add to your position. Once price hits resistance or volume suggests buyers are drying up, you can make an informed, intelligent decision to take profit from part or all of your holding. Charts also can, as a matter of probability, help you assess the odds of a trend continuing or turning.
Trading shares that way eliminates the need to dig into the bowels of fundamentals: a time-consuming task per share, which bears within it the danger of holding on past a share's use-by date because "Now I've spent so much time studying this company; I can't let it go and start the process all over again with another share."

Back to the subject "Reinvigorate ASF": I would love the ability to more easily include the image of a chart, to explain my (technical) analysis of particular stocks, specific trades, or just a general strategy.
If that approach were generally frowned upon and deliberately discouraged, please say so, and I stop wasting my time and yours.

PS Of course I agree with Julia: If a topic doesn't appeal to me, I skip over it. Nobody forces anybody to read a particular thread.


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## professor_frink (21 July 2010)

pixel said:


> hmmm - here I was, reading all those great suggestions, and intending to add one of my own:
> 
> *Can it be made easier to insert a chart into a stock discussion?* "that other place" lets us upload and insert images into the post itself, rather than finding another website to upload, then inserting a picture by URL to that location.




To attach a chart in a post,

click here:




This will open up a new window. From there click on the browse button:




Find the file on your computer and then hit upload.

Simple


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## nulla nulla (21 July 2010)

I've been inserting charts using "the manage attachments" box at the bottom of the "Reply to Thread" box.


What I would like to achieve is being able to post further comments below the chart?


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## professor_frink (21 July 2010)

nulla nulla said:


> I've been inserting charts using "the manage attachments" box at the bottom of the "Reply to Thread" box.
> 
> 
> What I would like to achieve is being able to post further comments below the chart?




nulla, if you see my post above that has picture with the attachment icon highlighted. If you upload an attachment to the post, from there you can hit the drop down arrow right next to the icon and it will list any attachments you've uploaded so far. Click on the file name you want to insert, and it will be displayed at whatever place the cursor is at that time.

Hope that helps


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## nulla nulla (21 July 2010)

Trying again.....

View attachment djia & nasdaq 20-7-10.bmp


And the result is....success!  Thank you professor.


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## professor_frink (21 July 2010)

nulla nulla said:


> Trying again.....
> 
> 
> 
> And the result is....success!  Thank you professor.




no worries nulla


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## explod (21 July 2010)

I think that general discussion threads are okay up to a point but the big one killing a lot of interest is the subject of politics.

It was an adage when I was a youth that religion and politics was taboo and it is for good reason I can see in retrospct.

Not sure how this can be controlled but an emphasis back to stock market stuff needs to be to the fore.   Maybe the Web page can have some type of division.

Of course as someone has already pointed out, a lot of investors are north in warmer climes for the winter and the US are on summer vocation.   The markets too are in fact doom and gloom now and as most of us are half cup full people this is a turn off as well.


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## overhang (21 July 2010)

What if perhaps the general chat threads weren't displayed in the recent threads, that way general chat wouldn't be so in the face but could still be found. Hope that made sense


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## springhill (21 July 2010)

Nioka, i support you 100%.
In the past i have been reticint to post my thoughts on some stocks i have been watching, or purchasing, out of a sense of inferiority to some members on here. Hence viewing my own posts as inadequete.
My strategy is simple, look for stocks that are near cash value and have a drlling program in place, or are being restructured with good management.
Your thread has encouraged me to do more on ASF.


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## Julia (21 July 2010)

overhang said:


> What if perhaps the general chat threads weren't displayed in the recent threads, that way general chat wouldn't be so in the face but could still be found. Hope that made sense




What is so difficult about just ignoring the threads which don't interest you?
I never read the threads on sport or conspiracy theories, plus many of those on small, speccie stocks, but I'm quite happy to just pass them by.

I think Basilio made a good point very well.  There are fewer stock threads because many are deterred from participating at present. 

 If enough people are genuinely interested in discussing stocks, then obviously those threads are the ones which will dominate the list of threads, so why not just get on with it instead of criticising e.g. political discussion which I'd have thought was pretty relevant at present.


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## overhang (21 July 2010)

I’d hardly call a mere suggestion to be criticism Julia.  So if you’d like to put it that way, what is so difficult about using the sub forums to access the general chat?
  The point is when new comers first visit this site for investment purposes it will be judged on recent participation and relevant topics, whilst you will argue that politics is relevant most the political discussion is nothing more than banter.


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## professor_frink (21 July 2010)

overhang said:


> I’d hardly call a mere suggestion to be criticism Julia.  So if you’d like to put it that way, what is so difficult about using the sub forums to access the general chat?
> The point is when new comers first visit this site for investment purposes it will be judged on recent participation and relevant topics, whilst you will argue that politics is relevant most the political discussion is nothing more than banter.




This one of quite a few things that has been discussed between the mods and Joe. Obviously hasn't been implemented, but hasn't been ruled out as an option in the future either


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## Timmy (21 July 2010)

overhang said:


> I’d hardly call a mere suggestion to be criticism Julia.  So if you’d like to put it that way, what is so difficult about using the sub forums to access the general chat?
> The point is when new comers first visit this site for investment purposes it will be judged on recent participation and relevant topics, whilst you will argue that politics is relevant most the political discussion is nothing more than banter.




I agree - get the emphasis back on stocks and financial topics by making them the focus, easiest to find, highlighted etc..  
Nothing wrong with sports/politics/hot chicks D) etc., and these can be ignored easily enough, just get the emphasis right.


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## moXJO (21 July 2010)

People will be back posting shares once the market picks up. The same thing happens on certain property forums when the housing market comes off the boil. People usually post when its doom or boom and not much in-between. 

Posters have been dropping out of general chat as well, and imo it's just a reflection of current market sentiment and trading conditions. Interest in the market is coming a distant second. 

The ones that are still trading are gravitating to another forum.


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## springhill (21 July 2010)

As a suggestion, would it be possible to implement the option of ignoring/blocking entire Forums or Sub-Forums? As you can with particular members.
Eg. If you were on here for Stock chat only, you could block/ignore the General Chat Forum.
Or if you weren't interested in Forex, you could block that.

Otherwise, have General Chat broken down further to Politics/Sport/Social? From there you could ignore any or all of the above?


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## Ruby (21 July 2010)

springhill said:


> As a suggestion, would it be possible to implement the option of ignoring/blocking entire Forums or Sub-Forums? As you can with particular members.
> Eg. If you were on here for Stock chat only, you could block/ignore the General Chat Forum.
> Or if you weren't interested in Forex, you could block that.
> 
> Otherwise, have General Chat broken down further to Politics/Sport/Social? From there you could ignore any or all of the above?




We already have the option of ignoring forums that don't interest us - just don't go there.   There are some which I have never visited, and I am sure other members do the same.

If General Chat was broken down into sub-forums it raises other problems, because you could theoretically have an infinite number of topics to choose from.  

It is good that this subject has been raised and that people are coming forward with ideas, but perhaps the responsibility lies with us, the members, to put more effort into making the forum more market topical.


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## Julia (21 July 2010)

> I’d hardly call a mere suggestion to be criticism Julia. So if you’d like to put it that way, what is so difficult about using the sub forums to access the general chat?



I was referring to the overall criticism of the content of political threads, Overhang, not specifically your suggestion.



moXJO said:


> People will be back posting shares once the market picks up. The same thing happens on certain property forums when the housing market comes off the boil. People usually post when its doom or boom and not much in-between.






Ruby said:


> We already have the option of ignoring forums that don't interest us - just don't go there.   There are some which I have never visited, and I am sure other members do the same.
> 
> If General Chat was broken down into sub-forums it raises other problems, because you could theoretically have an infinite number of topics to choose from.



Agree.  It would be unreasonably complicated.

As I suggested earlier, surely if real interest exists in various stock threads, then the whole question of what appears first is self-selecting.  If there are continuous and enthusiastic discussions about any/all stocks, then those threads are what will dominate the Home Page which is what I'm assuming the problem is for those who are unhappy with the status quo.

Am I missing something here in thinking this is logical?

But if it will make the unhappy people happy, then by all means ban "General Chat" from ever appearing on the Home Page.  It's not too hard to access it via the "Forums" link.


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## Timmy (21 July 2010)

Julia said:


> Am I missing something




Yes.
We are talking about active intervention to highlight posts that are not "General Chat" related.  
So, not just 'self-selecting', actually putting the focus onto non-"General Chat" topics.  
You don't have to agree BTW, just generating ideas.

As overhang said:


> *Quote:*
> Originally Posted by *overhang *
> _The point is when new comers first visit this site for investment purposes it will be judged on recent participation and relevant topics, _




This will help us, and working families, in Moving Forward, Together :


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## Surly (21 July 2010)

I have seen a forum with two new posts buttons. One was All New Posts and to rephrase relevant to this forum All New Stocks Posts perhaps.

I enjoy the banter but agree the stock relevant content has fallen too.

cheers
Surly


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## nioka (21 July 2010)

I've never thought of changing any format. All I would like to see/get is more information on stocks. I'm working on the assumption that the forum is for an EXCHANGE of ideas. General chat is OK by me. If the stock chat isn't there then it doesn't matter what the format is. IT just hasn't been there lately. 

Lately you wouldn't need a section for new posts. Mostly they are all on the home page, unless you are not tuned in for a day or so.


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## gordon2007 (21 July 2010)

I shall make a suggestion. For those of you have for whatever reason cannot stand seeing the 'recent thread' on asf, why not just change your favorites to 'https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/ '. This way you see a list of all available threads and don't have to even click into the general threads.


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## Joe Blow (21 July 2010)

Firstly let me say that I appreciate everyone's feedback. That's why I let this thread run. I'm interested in people's peceptions of ASF and how they think it could be improved. I'm a collaborative person by nature and I like to hear the honest opinions of others.



tech/a said:


> Most discussions of trading ideas get lost in the Q&A which follows.
> I suggest that if something is being demonstrated to follow as in say the Volume thread that it can be locked by the person showing the ideas with a separate thread for questions.
> That way you can at least follow it.
> I know moderation status has to go with that capability but if its abused just take it away.




Unfortunately there is no way to make it so that only one person can post in a thread. I think the Q&A is an important part of any discussion and although there's obviously nothing we can do about genuine questions, the moderators and I certainly don't mind keeping troublemakers and serial pests out of any useful discussion.



GumbyLearner said:


> Surely the mods could come up with a piece of code that would block out the political banter. So that the helpful contributors could be focused on!




Threads in the General Chat forum can be removed from the "Recent Threads" section on the front page, but that's about all I can do. It is not possible to ignore individual threads or entire forums.



Julia said:


> I do wonder sometimes if potentially valuable new members may be put off when they post a newbie query, or question a strategy put up by an existing member and are met with arrogant and dismissive responses.  Don't think I'd be hanging around for more of the same.




This is also a concern of mine and I would like to urge everyone to be as understanding as possible with newcomers so they're not put off from contributing. We all have to start somewehere and silly questions go with the territory when you're a beginner.



pixel said:


> *Can it be made easier to insert a chart into a stock discussion?* "that other place" lets us upload and insert images into the post itself, rather than finding another website to upload, then inserting a picture by URL to that location.




This is actually a very simple process and I notice that Professor Frink has been kind enough to answer your question. If you have any additional queries about the process please don't hesitate to ask.



overhang said:


> What if perhaps the general chat threads weren't displayed in the recent threads, that way general chat wouldn't be so in the face but could still be found. Hope that made sense




This can be done easily and if a lot of ASF members would like me to do this then I will be more than happy to. If you support this idea then please let me know in this thread.

On the topic of more stock related chat, I would like to see more too. However, I can't force ASF members to post in stock threads. It has to be something people do of their own volition. So if you're following a stock and there's been a major announcement or you have some relevant information to share, why not post in the thread for that company and let us know about it? You don't have to be an experienced trader/investor to post in stock threads. Perhaps you just have a couple of questions you'd like to ask? All I ask is that people don't ramp/downramp and that they contribute some meaningful content. Apart from that, please post away and lets get more stock chat happening!

Also, don't forget to invite your stock market interested friends and acquaintances so they can register at ASF and contribute also. The more active members we have the more stock discussion we will have!


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## Aussiejeff (21 July 2010)

gordon2007 said:


> I agree with your sentiment, however I don't really think it's the boards fault per se. *Look how many people are actually out of the market full stop at the current time. What else are they to talk about if they're not actually investing\trading.*




You _smashed_ the nail on the head, gordon.... 

In the case of small investors (most ASF'ers - under $1,000,000?),

Very Conservative "investors" - definitely OUT
Moderately Conservative "investors" - mostly OUT
Slightly Conservative "investors" - probably mostly OUT
Slightly Speculative "investors" - large proportion OUT
Moderately Speculative "investors" - 1/3 OUT?
Very Speculative "Investors" - mostly IN.

I think right now, the OUTS have it?

IMO most share activity in world markets is being driven (some may say "manipulated") by big speculative funds, banks etc. Easy to do when specs are the big drivers?

Good luck & Happy Punting for those still IN ...


aj


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## pixel (21 July 2010)

professor_frink said:


> To attach a chart in a post,
> 
> click here:
> 
> ...




Thanks Professor. 

Is there a "Stupid Hat" you could hand me? 
I honestly didn't see that paperclip


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## pixel (21 July 2010)

Julia said:


> If it will make the unhappy people happy, then by all means ban "General Chat" from ever appearing on the Home Page.  It's not too hard to access it via the "Forums" link.




Yet another alternative, which I always use:
Click on "New Posts".

As a result, my list only contains threads where new contributions have been added since my last visit. Stuff that I chose to ignore previously won't show up again. Too easy.


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## nulla nulla (21 July 2010)

Hi Joe

At this point in time I am midfull of the old addage "If it isn't broken, then don't fix it".

To me ,as a member of nearly 2 years, I have had no problems differentitaing between "General" topic threads and "Stock" specific threads. I have had to ask questions in respect of posting graphs and youtube video's, but in general it has been really easy to "search" for a thread I am interested in or start one myself.

IMO this is a good forum, runs in an easy to understand format and doesn't need changing. In respect of posts about topics some members would rather not see, without restricting freedom of speech, they have the open of ignoring those posts and proceeding to the threads they are interested in.

Keep up the good work (and your moderators as well)

thanks & regards

nulla


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## sails (21 July 2010)

I also just click on the "new posts" button or link and then only open the threads which are of interest.  Definitely very easy...

I like the diversity of ASF and would be sorry to see the general chat hidden from view.  

It takes time and effort to post charts and write up analysis. Would have to be frustrating when that post is ridiculed because another poster doesn't agree with the method.  A recent example happening in the XJO thread.

If people want more participation in the stock threads, I think there may also have to be more tolerance. Not sure if that's possible though...


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## nunthewiser (21 July 2010)

I like ASF the way it is , i like the general chat more than i like the stock threads .

I trade , i post my thoughts but i find it hard to communicate without calling a spade a spade ... when i do this, some of the more sensitive types and those that disagree with my analysis/thoughts report me for wording things the way i do ...... i do not abuse,swear,attack in the stock threads.......i just call a spade a spade.......... i find it hard to post in the stock/trading threads without upsetting someone.

I do enjoy the Trading threads and agree there should be more effort made to keep them active but my participation will be limited as they are detrimental to my lifespan as a poster here.

However 

I enjoy the "other'  NON STOCK RELATED threads  as in these threads we tend to get a bit more freedom on how we relate our message/point of view.
It is also nice to read/participate in non  market related chit chat/opinions  on relevant matters in the world to lighten the load when we are sitting in front of a pc all day trading.

my thinking is , if ya dont want to read a thread ... dont bloody open it ....... 

simple really


----------



## nunthewiser (21 July 2010)

My last post is NOT an attack on the rules and regulations of the Trading threads  and i understand they must be enforced and respected.


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## nioka (21 July 2010)

Joe,

Personally I don't believe that you need to change anything at all. ASF is a credit to your work to date in that regard. It is the contributors,yours truly included, that need to "up their game".

It is exactly in tough times like this that potential investors need more information, not less. I have found more opportunity in these so called tough times than ever before in my reasonably long life. Current contributors may be out of the market as they say so there is a need to attract new contributors that are in or will be in the market if ASF is to continue as a STOCK forum. 

It is not that the general interest is not there either. eg.
Posts on ASF re CER for the last 100 days 2 , posts on another forum so far for July 58.
Posts on ASF for BUL for the last 100 days 7, posts on the other forum so far for July 64.

At that rate why would anyone want to use ASF to keep up to date with a particular stock.

To ASFers,
 I rest my case. Ship up or ship out. The advertisers that support this program are only interested in results.

(While I was typing this there were 24 posts on stocks on that other forum.)


----------



## seamisty (21 July 2010)

The ASF Wellington Capital Premium Income Fund thread has been an absolute lifeline for many investors in our fund. While many choose not to post they are extremely appreciative of this contact/information point of all things PIF Fund related. Thankyou for providing the facility for us to keep updated, it is much appreciated.

Seamisty


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## Joe Blow (21 July 2010)

nulla nulla said:


> (and your moderators as well)




Yes, a particular thanks to ASF's moderators. 

They are the glue that holds this place together and I am very grateful to them for donating their time to help out.


----------



## derty (21 July 2010)

I think it is fine the way it is.


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## Julia (21 July 2010)

Timmy said:


> Yes.
> We are talking about active intervention to highlight posts that are not "General Chat" related.
> So, not just 'self-selecting', actually putting the focus onto non-"General Chat" topics.



Sorry, I'm clearly very stupid, but I'm still not clear what this means.
Are you saying General Chat threads will still appear on the Home Page, but will be in bold type?
Or are you saying, as some have suggested, that General Chat threads will be banned from appearing on the Home Page?



> You don't have to agree BTW, just generating ideas.



Oh, thank you.  I do realise my agreement is not a prerequisite to the formatting of the forum.  I have already said that it's unimportant to me whether General Chat threads appear on the Home Page or they have to be accessed via the Forums link.  

However, I stand by my earlier comment that if there are sufficient stock threads, demonstrating high level of interest in said stock threads, these will automatically push General Chat threads off the Home Page.  Ditto off the New Posts link.  
No one seems to have contradicted this suggestion.

I'd further suggest that in the present market environment, if General Chat threads didn't exist, the forum would be on the way to dying.   Given that we are about to have a general election in a pretty unusual political climate, I'd have imagined a high level of political exchange is reasonable.

As others have said, easy to just look at the New Posts link.



> As overhang said:
> This will help us, and working families, in Moving Forward, Together :



Oh God, as if we're not already being driven insane by this phrase!


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## tech/a (21 July 2010)

> Unfortunately there is no way to make it so that only one person can post in a thread. I think the Q&A is an important part of any discussion and although there's obviously nothing we can do about genuine questions, the moderators and I certainly don't mind keeping troublemakers and serial pests out of any useful discussion.




Joe I didnt suggest it for that reason.
The only reason was to keep the ideas in one long thread without having to wade through comment and questions (this can be on a seperate thread).

*I am able to lock my threads *on that other forum??
Anyway just suggesting it for clarity.
IE If someone wanted to read all my musings on Volume and have all charts together for instance.

Anyway if it cant be done then it cant.


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## Julia (21 July 2010)

Julia said:


> Sorry, I'm clearly very stupid, but I'm still not clear what this means.
> Are you saying General Chat threads will still appear on the Home Page, but will be in bold type?



Sorry, too late to edit this when I realised my mistake.
I meant to say"....... but will be in less bold type than Stock threads?"


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## pixel (21 July 2010)

tech/a said:


> Joe I didnt suggest it for that reason.
> The only reason was to keep the ideas in one long thread without having to wade through comment and questions (this can be on a seperate thread).
> 
> *I am able to lock my threads *on that other forum??
> ...




Hi tech/a
If I may make a suggestion regarding "locked threads"

In an earlier life, I contributed to an "Education Forum" with a series of posts that explained a very specific trend-following technique. You guessed it: One serial pest couldn't help himself, adding spurious and irrelevant k-r-app that quickly pushed topical Q&A's off the page. As that Forum didn't even have mods, I took the only logical way out - and set up my own website with its own blog page, in addition to an examples section etc.

I still continue as a regular contributor in the "Education" section, but stuff that I want to re-use is copied into my own blog spot. And people that want to read back know where to find earlier "on" commentary without wading knee-deep through tripe.
Costs me about $100 bucks a year - a cheap price for peace of mind and being my own boss. (oops: Don't tell the Missus that I said that  )


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## Timmy (21 July 2010)

Julia said:


> Are you saying General Chat threads *will *still appear on the Home Page, but will be in bold type?




Julia - nothing *will *change ATM.  
This is brainstorming, *just ideas*.  
Any changes will be up to Joe.

If it were up to me (it isn't) I would have two panels on the home page, one with a list of the latest posts in non-"General Chat" forums; below this would be a panel with the latest posts in the "General Chat" forum.  Again, its just an idea, thats all.


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## explod (22 July 2010)

Great exchange of ideas all.   ASF in some ways is like a second home and most of the time the backup from fellow travellers is excellent.

It is also an education in tolerance and perhaps all of us more experienced posters need to focus on that aspect.  I know some will not believe it (as I am a bit of a ) but I have learnt of late to bite my tounge a bit.

Are we perhaps in seeking change and looking for the comfort zone.   Difference is the reality but with it brings new insights and advancement.

Cheers   explod


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## jonojpsg (22 July 2010)

nioka said:


> Joe,
> 
> Personally I don't believe that you need to change anything at all. ASF is a credit to your work to date in that regard. It is the contributors,yours truly included, that need to "up their game".
> 
> ...




Yeah but nioka how valuable and relevant are those 58 and 64 posts?  What percentage of them actually include research, charts, etc that *hasn't already been covered*?  Surely it is not possible to have 1 or two posts a day on a stock that bring up anything new, unless of course something serious like a takeover is going down.


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## nioka (22 July 2010)

jonojpsg said:


> Yeah but nioka how valuable and relevant are those 58 and 64 posts?  What percentage of them actually include research, charts, etc that *hasn't already been covered*?  Surely it is not possible to have 1 or two posts a day on a stock that bring up anything new, unless of course something serious like a takeover is going down.




Agree that there is some rubbish in some posts. It is easy to dismiss the rubbish. However on the other hand it is not easy to get good information from only 2 posts in 100 days. 

ASF has rules that would keep out some of the rubbish posts. That is why I like it. That is why I am trying to make it worth logging on here. This is my last throw of the dice or I'll just play at the other casinos.


----------



## Joe Blow (22 July 2010)

tech/a said:


> Joe I didnt suggest it for that reason.
> The only reason was to keep the ideas in one long thread without having to wade through comment and questions (this can be on a seperate thread).




I think having the Q&A in a separate thread has its own problems. If people can't constantly quote what they are referring to (because it's in another thread) then it can make deciphering the Q&A a little difficult.

I appreciate your point about the potential difficulties of having the original ideas and the Q&A in the same thread but I like the way threads read like a conversation. I think most times it's easier to follow having the entire discussion in the one thread even though it may appear on the surface to be confusing, as long as the troublemakers are kept out or minimised and the thread is kept on track.

Also, when starting a new thread, it's good to have a few posts prepared so you can get them in first and put out a lot of what you want to explain before the questions start coming.

That being said, I would consider moving out the Q&A manually into another thread should a particular situation warrant it. It can be done after the fact.


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## Timmy (22 July 2010)

nioka said:


> It is not that the general interest is not there either. eg.
> Posts on ASF re CER for the last 100 days 2 , posts on another forum so far for July 58.
> Posts on ASF for BUL for the last 100 days 7, posts on the other forum so far for July 64.
> 
> (While I was typing this there were 24 posts on stocks on that other forum.)




nioka, This needs repeating, so I have.

The idea that there are few stock posts because of a lack of interest in stocks is clearly not supported by this data.

------------
From my own perspective, what interests me, I find the contributions from some posters regarding the international markets (both the fundamentals/macro views, and the technical) stimulating and very valuable and of a quality I haven't found elsewhere.  Just need more of it.


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## Bushman (22 July 2010)

derty said:


> I think it is fine the way it is.




Agree - ASF is what it is. 

In terms of political discussion, regulatory and sovereign risk are key drivers of stock valuations and investors need to be informed. 

ASF is top notch for trading ideas. 

ASF has lost some of its good posters on small/mid cap stocks which is probably more symptomatic of a range trading market. I must say that if I post on small caps these days, it is on HC as it has a greater depth of posters. 

The main disappointment I have with ASF is that you do not get much discussion going in the stock forum when you post something so eventually the interest in doing so wanes. So lets support each others ideas by passing comment.


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## Joe Blow (22 July 2010)

springhill said:


> Your thread has encouraged me to do more on ASF.






Bushman said:


> So lets support each others ideas by passing comment.




Ultimately I think this is the answer to getting more discussion happening on individual stocks. 

Once posting frequency increases it will bring more stocks to people's attention because an increasing amount of stock threads will have been bumped to the top. This will encourage others to read those recently updated threads and perhaps comment themselves. Keep an eye on your watchlist and if an interesting announcement comes through or a stock experiences a significant increase or decrease in price, post about it on ASF and this will end up generating more discussion.

Posting activity feeds on itself and if everyone pitches in things can be ramped up fairly quickly.


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## Julia (22 July 2010)

Timmy said:


> Julia - nothing *will *change ATM.
> This is brainstorming, *just ideas*.
> Any changes will be up to Joe.
> 
> If it were up to me (it isn't) I would have two panels on the home page, one with a list of the latest posts in non-"General Chat" forums; below this would be a panel with the latest posts in the "General Chat" forum.  Again, its just an idea, thats all.



That sounds like a really good idea, Timmy.




Joe Blow said:


> Ultimately I think this is the answer to getting more discussion happening on individual stocks.
> 
> Once posting frequency increases it will bring more stocks to people's attention because an increasing amount of stock threads will have been bumped to the top. This will encourage others to read those recently updated threads and perhaps comment themselves.



This is the point I've been trying to make.  ASF is what it is as a result of the contributions of the members (obviously).  If we all sit back and read what someone else has said but decline to become involved ourselves, then the result will be as we have been seeing.

However:


> Posting activity feeds on itself and if everyone pitches in things can be ramped up fairly quickly.


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## trainspotter (22 July 2010)

Maybe have two menus on the home page. One for "Stocks" and one for "General Chat". This way the stocks column relevant to those who are more inclined can follow and vice versa for the general discussion type people.

Just a suggestion. Personally I like the diversity and the opinions of my fellow ASFers as well as enthusiastically watch the stock threads when there is great detail and explanations as to WHY such and such stock did this or that. Some of the posters in here are dead set legends in this field and I have watched their detailed analysis turn into good results.

The other good thing is that the majority of us in here are like minded people and understand profit and risk tactics. Birds of a feather flock together kind of thing. We all have opinions that sometimes do not agree with others. This is healthy and when it isn't the mod squad do their thing. No biggy IMO.

Jike Joe said "IF everyone pitches in things can be ramped up fairly quickly"


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## sinner (27 July 2010)

Speaking from my own experience in starting a thread on trading the ASX20, two moderators immediately messaged me very nicely saying if there were any trolls or ****fights to contact them and they would sort it out.

Like I said, very nice of the mods, but it should have been a warning sign for me off the bat that there was a problem on ASF in this regards!

There are definitely only a few archetypes of poster on ASF and only some of those are causing the issue. On review of the thread I broke it down to

1. The contributor: person or persons bringing new information/knowledge to the thread, no strings attached, for comment, discussion and didactic.
2. The empty cup: person or persons who may only have questions but nothing to contribute. These gain the most of everyone, and if they learn well, often will stick around to contribute in the future. This is the future user base of ASF.
3. The pro: successful trader who doesn't really contribute but wanders around nonetheless proffering their opinion of "how it should be done". This would be fine but generally "the pros" don't want to spoon feed anyone so all the empty cups get are useless cryptic one liners or even worse passive-aggressive short paragraphs. Just look at this thread of someone who already has their own experience of trading, asking for a small piece of advice, was treated by "the pros" of this forum
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=569855

I actually wrote a response here, answering the actual question of the poster, and the mods deleted it! But the people who did not read the question properly, and gave rubbish rude responses to the poster, are considered the respected members of this forum. They even ridiculed him and said "show me one person who uses this method to make money" I showed one, and the mods deleted it because "the one" was *<<removed by mods>>*
4. The troll: You can look on wikipedia for definition of a troll. There are plenty here on ASF and they like to "come out of the woodwork" - they don't just hang around on every and any thread.

This breakdown is from my own experience, so it may be different for other people, but I would say from my observations that generally it is the same across the forum. In my case, even though the mods offered to take care of it, after I spent hours writing page-long responses to the "empty cups" only to spend twice as long being harassed by trolls and dealing with pro statements like "that won't work, but I won't say why" or just telling me I am out and out wrong on some demonstration that actually ended up being profitable. 

It quickly became apparent to me that the reason mods messaged me so quickly, was because they had already dealt with this issue repeatedly!

Why would I bother to contribute in that regards? More and more these days, even in the General subforums, I find myself writing long posts and deleting them as soon as I click "Submit" because I know in advance the reaction and response it will bring. I want an intellectual grade discussion with mutual respect. Not to be treated as an idiot by those who purport to know more than me, nor to get into schoolyard arguments about topics the other schoolboy/girl is not even really interested in!

As the poster in the above linked thread noted "this does not seem to be the place for meaningful transfer of ideas" well first impressions last and I can't blame him. I remember when I joined in 2008, people ridiculed me for claiming "gold is money" saying you can't buy a loaf of bread with a bar of gold yet I see articles this year on Mike Shedlocks blog about counties in US using gold and silver for daily transactions. From the perspective of a new poster who wants to be a contributor, or from a new poster who is an empty cup, after being bitten once or twice, what possible reason would they have to return after receiving nothing short of scorn?

Do you know how this forum is perceived on other forums? On ForexFactory, ASF is well known as a forum full of arrogant grumpy old men who don't want to listen to anyone but want to tell everyone how it is. I received vitriol just for trying to dispute this perception.


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## Wysiwyg (27 July 2010)

sinner said:


> Do you know how this forum is perceived on other forums? On ForexFactory, ASF is well known as a forum full of arrogant grumpy old men who don't want to listen to anyone but want to tell everyone how it is. I received vitriol just for trying to dispute this *perception*.




I cruise and participate in other forums on the internet and have never seen such claims and if I did I would think exactly what I do now. You're full of *pause* yourself.


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## explod (27 July 2010)

Wysiwyg said:


> I cruise and participate in other forums on the internet and have never seen such claims and if I did I would think exactly what I do now. You're full of *pause* yourself.




Good conclusion Wysiwyg, and I feel there are a lot of younger persons who do not want to know the truth as that often requires patience and that there are sometimes limits.

Saw a 1 year old at the supermarket the other day say(demand) to her Mother, "*I want it now*


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## Sean K (27 July 2010)

I like the balance at ASF.

It will ebb and flow along with the market I think, but there seems to be a pretty solid foundation of like minded members.

Thanks Joe!


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## Garpal Gumnut (27 July 2010)

kennas said:


> I like the balance at ASF.
> 
> It will ebb and flow along with the market I think, but there seems to be a pretty solid foundation of like minded members.
> 
> Thanks Joe!




Agree totally Kennas. When the market tanks all the weaker players run for the hills.

The only other point I might like to add is that there are a lot of ****stirrers on ASF who like to get people agitated, to wake them from their eternal boring lives worrying about money and material things.

These stirrers try to motivate them to aspire to the important things like good cars, moving stocks, cigars, good liquor, travel, and of course frequent and short lasting relationships.

That really gets me upset.

gg


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## Slipperz (27 July 2010)

Well I'm doing my bit 

Reinvigorating not stirring that is 

Not really interested in banging on about politics and what not.

My interest here is making money from astute investing


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## trainspotter (27 July 2010)

explod said:


> Good conclusion Wysiwyg, and I feel there are a lot of younger persons who do not want to know the truth as that often requires patience and that there are sometimes limits.
> 
> Saw a 1 year old at the supermarket the other day say(demand) to her Mother, "*I want it now*




Are you suggesting that for one moment that ASF is for those with an educated palate? For an instance that it might be OK for a well informed investor to meet and greet like minded people? Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh Nirvana.


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## Timmy (28 July 2010)

sinner said:


> Do you know how this forum is perceived on other forums? On ForexFactory, ASF is well known as a forum full of arrogant grumpy old men who don't want to listen to anyone but want to tell everyone how it is. I received vitriol just for trying to dispute this perception.




Sinner is correct, there are comments of this nature on ForexFactory, they can be found with a Google search, as can sinner's defence of ASF.

The comments are in a thread about an FX broker and this broker's responses to various customer concerns posted on ASF.  Sometimes when ASF is used as a vehicle for posting concerns about a product/service ASF itself ends up being attacked (shot messenger syndrome?).  

Good on sinner for his defending ASF itself and the members of ASF.


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## Logique (28 July 2010)

There's a federal election on, a one in three year phenomenon. 

Government spending and debt, inflation, a proposed new tax on our largest export industry;  likelihood of senate balance of power for a party that wants to shut down our largest and cheapest power industry; small miners getting their advertising against the MRRT going again. Fiscal stimulus and interest rate movements. 

How can you dissociate the immediate investment future in Australia from any of this? 

Like it or not, politics and markets are particularly intertwined at present. Post election, and once the future is clearer, we'll no doubt cycle back into more of a stocks focus.


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## yonnie (28 July 2010)

I agree with sinner.

I was thinking about starting a thread about my penny world, but cant be bothered really.

I`m in my sixties and I`m not looking forward to fending off aggressive young bucks.


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## nunthewiser (28 July 2010)

yonnie said:


> I was thinking about starting a thread about my penny world, but cant be bothered really.
> 
> I`m in my sixties and I`m not looking forward to fending off aggressive young bucks.




Yes being questioned about your paper trading scenarios by people using real trading techniques would be a rather tiring excercise.

I totally understand.


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## nioka (28 July 2010)

Logique said:


> How can you dissociate the immediate investment future in Australia from any of this?
> .




You can associate your investments with the election. Some are held back pending the result and there are possibilities depending which party is in power at the end. There are plenty of stocks that are governed by the world situation and will not be affected by the results here.A bit of research and a bit of speculation could pay off. I am making some investment decisions based on a result either way. I believe it is a GOOD time to talk stocks.


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## nioka (28 July 2010)

yonnie said:


> I agree with sinner.
> 
> I was thinking about starting a thread about my penny world, but cant be bothered really.
> 
> I`m in my sixties and I`m not looking forward to fending off aggressive young bucks.




To me, 60 is a "young buck". You are only as old as you feel. (It has been said too that you are only as old as the one you feel.)


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## Buckfont (28 July 2010)

nioka said:


> To me, 60 is a "young buck". You are only as old as you feel. (It has been said too that you are only as old as the one you feel.)




I feel like a 26yo, trouble is that i`ve had no takers and and I`m still waiting


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## yonnie (28 July 2010)

Buckfont said:


> I feel like a 26yo, trouble is that i`ve had no takers and and I`m still waiting




and............you`re only 18!!!


to be fair to ASF, you have aggressive young bucks on every forum and there are worse than ASF.

yep Nioka.....spot on, still going strong and as long as I can take money from aggressive young bucks, I wont retire.


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## Buckfont (28 July 2010)

yonnie said:


> and............you`re only 18




In many respects I`m glad I`m not, knowing what I know now and what I didn`t then...  and I`m more than happy just the way things are right this very minute. 

Oh,.. I think we are meant to be talking stocks here.:


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## yonnie (28 July 2010)

nah, we`re only here to reinvigorate ASF:

if I talk about stocks, it got to be at least 100 characters and I`m pretty quiet by nature


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## J&M (28 July 2010)

I am very new to the share market 
I got into this by buying investor mag 
and read the David H stocks report  I then joined the Eureka report 
Where he made profit of 60% yep kinda go me hooked 
But I wanted another point of view and found this forum by doing a web search. 
To date I have learnt so much about stocks and companies by reading the stock page from page 1 to the end 
I find the interaction between the posters very informative as each wants to state there point of view. Then you have to pick out the information that's relative to the stock going up or down. This is not an easy task for a learner. 
There are some threads that have nothing to do with a stock. I do read some of these as you get to know the way a forum member thinks and always a funny remark from some of you 
So I like it as it is 
You don't have to read every thread 
Glad I found this forum thanks to you All for all the help re shares 

James


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## Joe Blow (28 July 2010)

overhang said:


> What if perhaps the general chat threads weren't displayed in the recent threads, that way general chat wouldn't be so in the face but could still be found.




I have decided to implement this idea. 

From now on General Chat threads will not be included in the "Recent Threads" module on the front page. Hopefully, this will keep the focus on threads related to the stock market and trading/investing while enabling those who wish to participate in General Chat threads to still do so.

Feedback on this decision, of course, is always welcome!


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## yonnie (29 July 2010)

in my opinion we should have respect for each other`s views; is it not so that there are 100 ways to skin a cat?

why not make ASF the best trading site in the world!

ASF will stand out in the crowd and experienced traders will want to join up and share their experiences, because they know they wont be ridiculed.

ASF is a business like I have a business and shouldn`t we all strive for the best?

best to get rid of that handful of trouble makers:
1. disrespectful - a warning and make them apologize on that thread
2. second warning and make them apologize on the thread
3. 3rd time OUT YOU GO.

Nanny state?: I dont care what you call it, but a few people can disrupt a whole site.
the leadership has to come from the top.

ACTION I would say


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## basilio (29 July 2010)

I believe much of the profits that can be made from the stock market is sheer confidence. Often blind confidence. If enough people can be persuaded to believe a particular stock is a good thing and start buying it, it will  go up.

So right now of course there isn't much confidence and certainly very little blind confidence. So one of the main functions of forums like ASF in creating and maintaining confidence is lacking. 

What remains it seems are specific individual plays where someone believes special factors will result in outstanding returns. For example ADI/AUT oil shale threads. The CSG takeover theme. The threads on new technology stocks that are just waiting for a grand arrival. (CFU and co) And LNC which forever seems to be on the cusp of selling its coal mines and making a $1billion.

Unfortunately there hasn't been any particular winners in the past 6-8 months so even this area is muted.


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## nioka (29 July 2010)

yonnie said:


> best to get rid of that handful of trouble makers:
> 1. disrespectful - a warning and make them apologize on that thread
> 2. second warning and make them apologize on the thread
> 3. 3rd time OUT YOU GO.
> ACTION I would say




Whoa there.
 Constructive criticism is sometimes hard to pick from disrespect. Respect must be earnt and some do not deserve respect just as others do not deserve the criticism they can "cop" here. Without criticism posters can get away with posts that are misleading. As for making an apology!, all that does is give someone a second chance to let others know what you REALLY meant.  

Can I suggest that Joe and the mods do have the matter under control.


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## nioka (29 July 2010)

basilio said:


> Unfortunately there hasn't been any particular winners in the past 6-8 months so even this area is muted.




Can't agree. The last six months have had plenty of great opportunities. It is when times are tough that the opportunities are there. The best for me has been ADI, AUT ane EKA but there have been good opportunities to trade for freebies. SDL was a good buy and quick trade as was VPG and CER was a good sell and buy back. CFE had some profitable opportunities as has BUL. LYC has been great in that time.

These forums can help you decide which ones to look out for. but DYOR


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## sails (29 July 2010)

Joe Blow said:


> I have decided to implement this idea.
> 
> From now on General Chat threads will not be included in the "Recent Threads" module on the front page. Hopefully, this will keep the focus on threads related to the stock market and trading/investing while enabling those who wish to participate in General Chat threads to still do so.
> 
> Feedback on this decision, of course, is always welcome!




Hi Joe,

I hadn't seen your post and wondered where the general chat had gone! 

They do re-appear when clicking on the "new posts" link at the top of the page.  This saves having to specifically find the general chat area from time to time.  Hopefully this feature will remain as is!

I think the stock threads may not be as prolific as other forums possibly influenced by the 100 character rule.  I see other forums where there may be a larger quantity of posts, but many are very short or lacking in content.  I feel that ASF has better quality of posting as opposed to quantity.

Cheers...


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## trainspotter (29 July 2010)

I like what you have done with the "general chat" not appearing on the main menu scene #1 home page. Very clever. Thank you Joe !


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## Joe Blow (29 July 2010)

sails said:


> I hadn't seen your post and wondered where the general chat had gone!
> 
> They do re-appear when clicking on the "new posts" link at the top of the page.  This saves having to specifically find the general chat area from time to time.  Hopefully this feature will remain as is!




Yes, those interested in what's going on in the General Chat threads can simply click on the "New Posts" link when they arrive at ASF. By taking them out of the "Recent Threads" module on the front page I think it keeps the focus on the stock market related threads. One of the moderators made the point last night that for those arriving at ASF for the first time it may be somewhat confusing to see half a dozen threads about random general topics such as "Any followers of Jesus here???????" 

I should emphasize that it is a trial and I welcome any feedback on the decision.



sails said:


> I think the stock threads may not be as prolific as other forums possibly influenced by the 100 character rule.  I see other forums where there may be a larger quantity of posts, but many are very short or lacking in content.  I feel that ASF has better quality of posting as opposed to quantity.




Yes, I have resisted any temptation to lower the minimum standards of posting in stock threads even though I'm aware that it does have an impact on the quantity of posts. I know the 100 character minimum post length in stock threads irritates some people but I can honestly say that I have never seen a post in a stock thread of less than 100 characters that could not be improved very easily by adding an additional thought, a question or simply by elaborating a little. 

I hope that most ASF members would prefer to see one quality post in a stock thread than 10 nonsense posts.


----------



## nunthewiser (29 July 2010)

Looks good,  

Totally agree re Quality verses Quantity on stock forum  posts


Go BTA


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## yonnie (29 July 2010)

nioka said:


> Whoa there.
> Constructive criticism is sometimes hard to pick from disrespect. Respect must be earnt and some do not deserve respect just as others do not deserve the criticism they can "cop" here. Without criticism posters can get away with posts that are misleading. As for making an apology!, all that does is give someone a second chance to let others know what you REALLY meant.
> 
> Can I suggest that Joe and the mods do have the matter under control.




it is the tone of the post that will set constructive critisism apart from disrespect.

some people even start their post with: no offence, but.........

if in doubt the mods should ask the poster to explain.

sorry but dont agree with the control thingy if I look at the thread sinner brought to our attention.........
that was awful.


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## nunthewiser (29 July 2010)

yonnie said:


> some people start their post with: no offence, but.........
> 
> .
> 
> sorry but dont agree with the control thingy   .




 No offence intended but i think the mods and admin here do a great job in controlling the threads.

but they are only human and cannot catch everything everytime.

They are in regular contact with me and i feel qualified to say this


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## yonnie (29 July 2010)

nunthewiser said:


> They are in regular contact with me and i feel qualified to say this




lol


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## explod (29 July 2010)

Well done by the ASF aministration etc., the whole site feels better to me already.


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## explod (29 July 2010)

yonnie said:


> lol




Yeh, he he, always someone gota biig note


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## sinner (29 July 2010)

nunthewiser said:


> Yes being questioned about your paper trading scenarios by people using real trading techniques would be a rather tiring excercise.
> 
> I totally understand.




This sarcasm was totally unappreciated nun. Personally spent many hours writing responses to peoples questions based on my experience trading using real techniques with real money. Went out of my way to post a comprehensive trading plan, in advance of each trade. Having continued the exercise *off* the forum, I was pleasantly surprised to find it rather profitable in a new market for me (ASX20) the only difference being the information was not contributed to the forum (yet when I had the idea to trade the ASX20 I immediately thought to share my journey with ASF). 
I recall a thread was started by someone new asking for advice on that same system, you accused them of being a system seller just because of the name of the system! This degenerated further with more "respected members" piling rubbish responses and insults on until someone with a brain stepped in and pointed out to the OP that there was a thread on the topic already.

In this scenario what has happened? The new person leaves, feeling frustrated and disillusioned, while the "respected members" just keep getting more and more "respected" until we end up with threads like this one complaining ASF needs reinvigorating.

In the thread I linked above, someone who asking for advice regarding Dr. Alexander Elders well known, well back-tested, *real* "Triple Screen Trading" technique was given a response such as this:
"On the other hand, if you're a scamming blood-sucker thats creating another super-mega-profitable system and going to sell it for $4999 with 50% off, only to the next 125 callers, then go for it, you're on the right track"

by one of the so called "respected" traders of this forum. How can this be viewed constructively? TST and all the information about it is available for free (as the OP of that thread plainly stated) on sites like investopedia. This is trading technique information that has come from not some random system seller, but Dr. E who I am sure did not earn his title by selling copies of FapTurbo.

How do you think newbies will feel after receiving such a response when asking for advice? Surely you can see the issue at hand here? 

The title of this thread is "reinvigorate ASF as a stock forum". A truly admirable goal if you believe ASF is no longer the stock forum it once was (as obviously the OP does). Posters like us, to who the plea is directed, should ask exactly *how* we will undertake to reinvigorate this forum. Will it be through more derision, negativity, sarcasm and know-it-allism? Or will it be through an attitude of community building, mutual respect and some level of tolerance for those newcomers who don't yet know the "unwritten rules" of this place? I think the answer will define whether the question posed in the thread title will succeed or fail.


----------



## nunthewiser (29 July 2010)

sinner said:


> This sarcasm was totally unappreciated nun. Personally spent many hours writing responses to peoples questions based on my experience trading using real techniques with real money. Went out of my way to post a comprehensive trading plan, in advance of each trade. Having continued the exercise *off* the forum, I was pleasantly surprised to find it rather profitable in a new market for me (ASX20) the only difference being the information was not contributed to the forum (yet when I had the idea to trade the ASX20 I immediately thought to share my journey with ASF). *Yet I recall a thread started by someone asking for advice on that same system, you accused them of being a system seller just because of the name of the system!  *




And if you scroll  back not once was my post directed at you , it was someone else AND that person knows why , we allready had the chat on the  subject and i was merely being a smartarse.
SHOW me where i accused them being a  system seller

why am i NOW the subject of your attention? i couldnt give a hoot about your trading NOR your trading threads and wonder why you have chosen me to let fly at today.

get ya facts right if you want to come in swinging at me for no reason


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## J&M (29 July 2010)

sinner said:


> The title of this thread is "reinvigorate ASF as a stock forum". A truly admirable goal if you believe ASF is no longer the stock forum it once was (as obviously the OP does). Posters like us, to who the plea is directed, should ask exactly *how* we will undertake to reinvigorate this forum. Will it be through more derision, negativity, sarcasm and know-it-allism? Or will it be through an attitude of community building, mutual respect and some level of tolerance for those newcomers who don't yet know the "unwritten rules" of this place? I think the answer will define whether the question posed in the thread title will succeed or fail.




you have hit the nail right on the head well written and fully agree

james


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## nunthewiser (29 July 2010)

sinner said:


> In the thread I linked above, someone who asking for advice regarding Dr. Alexander Elders well known, well back-tested, *real* "Triple Screen Trading" technique was given a response such as this:
> "On the other hand, if you're a scamming blood-sucker thats creating another super-mega-profitable system and going to sell it for $4999 with 50% off, only to the next 125 callers, then go for it, you're on the right track"
> 
> .




I hope you not impyling i said this .

In fact i cannot recall ever posting on YOUR threads and wonddering what the go is here .


geez


----------



## sinner (29 July 2010)

nunthewiser said:


> And if you scroll  back not once was my post directed at you , it was someone else AND that person knows why , we allready had the chat on the  subject and i was merely being a smartarse.
> SHOW me where i accused them being a  system seller
> 
> why am i NOW the subject of your attention? i couldnt give a hoot about your trading NOR your trading threads and wonder why you have chosen me to let fly at today.
> ...




Sorry nun, my apology, I went and had a look at the thread, it was others being silly in that case. The thread in question I remembered was this one, I guess your name got stuck in my head as the last poster.
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17933

The point was more that after such a response, you can generally be sure the newbie will not return. In this case, you can see they did not. 



> I hope you not impyling i said this .




Nope, not at all. I didn't reference who said it because it was just an example I did not want to bring a name into the discussion.


----------



## DocK (29 July 2010)

sinner said:


> ....
> How do you think newbies will feel after receiving such a response when asking for advice? Surely you can see the issue at hand here?
> 
> The title of this thread is "reinvigorate ASF as a stock forum". A truly admirable goal if you believe ASF is no longer the stock forum it once was (as obviously the OP does). Posters like us, to who the plea is directed, should ask exactly *how* we will undertake to reinvigorate this forum. Will it be through more derision, negativity, sarcasm and know-it-allism? Or will it be through an attitude of community building, mutual respect and some level of tolerance for those newcomers who don't yet know the "unwritten rules" of this place? I think the answer will define whether the question posed in the thread title will succeed or fail.






J&M said:


> you have hit the nail right on the head well written and fully agree
> 
> james




I also agree.  I have personally been put off from posting on "serious" threads for fear of being subjected to the scorn and ridicule that does seem to be rather prevalent at times on this forum.  Us newbies *do* ask some truly stupid things at times, but that is how we learn.  If shown the error of our ways in polite and constructive language - we will learn or at least consider an alternative viewpoint offered by a more experienced trader/investor.  If scorned and ridiculed in a condescending manner, it's far more likely that ASF will lose a potential member.  

It may also be possible that opinions/methods that differ from one's own aren't always wrong - just different??  Several ways to skin a cat, and all that 

Having said all that though, I do often find myself laughing at my screen at some of the argy-bargy that goes on - it can be very entertaining when it's not directed at yourself


----------



## trainspotter (29 July 2010)

Seagull and the chip syndrome all over again.


----------



## Joe Blow (29 July 2010)

To all those who wish to make ASF a better place, I would simply ask that you obey the site rules and treat others with respect at all times, irrespective of how much you might disagree with them. If everyone did that one thing ASF would be the perfect forum. Of course, we all know that's never going to happen, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to give it their best shot. Every single ASF member has the potential to make this forum a better place every single time they visit. 

The bickering in this thread highlights the fact that people are never going to see eye to eye all the time. There will be disagreements and arguments. It's how you act towards those you disagree with that matters. Personal attacks, insults, accusations and provocation *never*, *ever* help. They only serve to worsen and escalate an already bad situation.

ASF is a community and every single one of you is a citizen. So, are you going to be a good citizen or a bad citizen? The first step towards making ASF the forum you would like it to be is being a good citizen every time you visit. The moderators and I will do our best to enforce the rules in a fair and evenhanded way, but we need the support and assistance of every single ASF member. After all, any community, whether in real life or on the internet, is only as good as the sum of its citizens.


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## yonnie (29 July 2010)

nunthewiser said:


> And if you scroll  back not once was my post directed at you , it was someone else AND that person knows why , we allready had the chat on the  subject and i was merely being a smartarse




I really dont know why you ASSUME I`m only paper trading???

how can you say that if you dont know my personal circumstances at all?


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## professor_frink (29 July 2010)

DocK said:


> I also agree.  I have personally been put off from posting on "serious" threads for fear of being subjected to the scorn and ridicule that does seem to be rather prevalent at times on this forum.  Us newbies *do* ask some truly stupid things at times, but that is how we learn.  If shown the error of our ways in polite and constructive language - we will learn or at least consider an alternative viewpoint offered by a more experienced trader/investor.  If scorned and ridiculed in a condescending manner, it's far more likely that ASF will lose a potential member.
> 
> It may also be possible that opinions/methods that differ from one's own aren't always wrong - just different??  Several ways to skin a cat, and all that
> 
> Having said all that though, I do often find myself laughing at my screen at some of the argy-bargy that goes on - it can be very entertaining when it's not directed at yourself




Hi DocK,

Whilst I can understand why you would be concerned at some of the responses that can fly around on the forum from time to time, putting yourself "out there" and making your views, ideas and strategies known can be a great way to get in contact with like minded individuals, and  generally I've found it to be an overwhelmingly positive experience. When I first started trading index futures back in 2006, just by making regular contributions to the SPI trading thread at the time(which has some of the worst examples of forum behaviour I've seen in my time here and it ended up getting closed down), I ended up making contact with quite a few other traders, and spent months in contact with them exchanging ideas, various bits of market related information, spent time in the Chatroom section of the site discussing what was going on in the market at the time quite often too. A lot of this happened outside the scope of the thread on the forum, but was incredibly valuable, and has helped me develop as a trader.

If you have some ideas you want to share and you do, odds are there is someone on the forum that has had some kind of experience that can be of help, and it may not come in the form of a reply to a thread you post in. That's one of the great things about sites like this one - there are some brilliant networking opportunities to be had, you've just got to put yourself out there to be found

As is often the case, an example from traderfeed says it better than I can:

http://traderfeed.blogspot.com/2010/03/thoughts-on-networking-and-success.html


> It always surprises me that people who otherwise seem to desire success don't follow through on their desires with solid, persistent networking.
> 
> Life is a team sport. You learn from others, you benefit from their experience, you develop your thinking by incorporating their perspectives--and they learn, benefit, and develop in their interactions with you.
> 
> ...


----------



## nunthewiser (29 July 2010)

yonnie said:


> I really dont know why you ASSUME I`m only paper trading???
> 
> how can you say that if you dont know my personal circumstances at all?






> yonnie
> 
> 
> Join Date: May 2007
> ...





> Originally Posted by nunthewiser
> Yes being questioned about your paper trading scenarios by people using real trading techniques would be a rather tiring excercise.
> I totally understand.




Like i said, my previous post was merely a humerous response to your post .

It was in regards to THIS conversation 

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=564093#post564093

The conversation in question begins at post# 23

we already covered this in the thread.

Sorry if my response offended you

I have nothing more to say on this matter.

have a good day


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## Garpal Gumnut (29 July 2010)

Nun, Get thee to a nunnery sir.

It is inexcusable, you will need a good whipping.

This behaviour with the paper trading lad is way beyond a joke. Stalin and Hitler's crimes pale into insignificance against your slights upon his as yet unproven prowess with his hardearned.

gg


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## dutchie (30 July 2010)

Joe Blow said:


> Feedback on this decision, of course, is always welcome!




Hi Joe

Feedback - I do not like the new system. I feel that all posts should be of equal importance. If this is a stock only related forum (not that there is anything wrong with that) then why have general chat etc. at all. 

Cheers

Dutchie


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## Joe Blow (30 July 2010)

trainspotter said:


> I like what you have done with the "general chat" not appearing on the main menu scene #1 home page. Very clever. Thank you Joe !






dutchie said:


> Feedback - I do not like the new system. I feel that all posts should be of equal importance. If this is a stock only related forum (not that there is anything wrong with that) then why have general chat etc. at all.




The profile of the General Chat forum and indeed the very existence of the General Chat forum seems to be an issue that polarises ASF members.

Two responses to the change and two *very* different opinions. This change can be rolled back with the click of a button so I am very interested in getting some more feedback on this.


----------



## Logique (30 July 2010)

Feedback to Joe and Mods:

it's your forum, it's perfectly reasonable that you remove links, or posters, or remove General Chat altogether if you so wish. When browsing, I don't access the forums via the home page anyway.

Joe, you and the other mods do a great job, and realistically, you signed on to moderate a stocks based forum, not to run a social commentary site. That said - I've really enjoyed sharing general chat ideas with other posters in the run up to the federal election, thanks for the opportunity.

All the best, 
Logique


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## sails (30 July 2010)

dutchie said:


> Hi Joe
> 
> Feedback - I do not like the new system. I feel that all posts should be of equal importance. If this is a stock only related forum (not that there is anything wrong with that) then why have general chat etc. at all.
> 
> ...




Dutchie, my initial reaction to the change was also quite negative as I like to keep ASF minimised throughout the day and then periodically click on the "home" button to refresh.  All the latest posts would then pop up in bold on the home page.  Very convenient...

But then I can also understand from Joe's point of view with new people coming to ASF and some of the obscure general chat titles.  

So now I click on the "new posts" button instead of the "home" button to refresh the page and that brings up ALL the latest posts.  Within a few days it will become automatic and no longer a frustration...


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## DocK (30 July 2010)

I also don't generally use the home page, but click on "new posts" which shows all - I find it easier that way and it's no biggie to just ignore any posts that don't sound interesting to me.  The only suggestion I can think of to possibly make the home page easier to navigate would be to include a column beside the name of the thread with the name of the forum it belongs to - that way it will be obvious to all which recent threads are stock related, appropriate for beginners, general chat etc.

Just my  - I personally thought things were fine as they were.  I think doing away with general chat altogether would result in many members not visiting as often - I doubt I'm the only one who only contributes to general chat but reads and learns a lot from the other stock threads.


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## nioka (30 July 2010)

Regardless of the manner that the posts are available I have seen the fall off of stock related posts over the last couple of years. I have noticed the number of those logged on at any time reduce. What we need for the forum to survive and I mean survive, is that there were more stock related posts. 

Remember this is a FREE forum and by free I mean no cost to those logging on. As such it relies on advertisers. I doubt that the advertisers are happy to contribute to a "general chat show". By drawing attention to the problem I believe that we have already seen an increase in investor contribution. I hope this will continue for I believe that Joe does a good job but he needs everybodys support. 

If there are those that only want to chat then they have to live with the fact that this is basically a stock forum that provides facilities to chat. We live in a commercial world. There are not a lot of freebies.

Joe, Can I suggest a poll of some sort to settle the issue. In the meantime I will concentrate on stocks but be happy to join Dorythy Dix at times.

Back to checking stock news.


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## kgee (30 July 2010)

Joe Blow said:


> The profile of the General Chat forum and indeed the very existence of the General Chat forum seems to be an issue that polarises ASF members.
> 
> Two responses to the change and two *very* different opinions. This change can be rolled back with the click of a button so I am very interested in getting some more feedback on this.




Joe is there anyway you could keep the same format but split the page?
I love this site but it always depends on how many wines I've had as to where i should direct my attention?
Put a Dollar sign on one half...and a yabbering fool on the other
and squeeze the advertizers down the middle
then we can track it for popularity and make up some new rule for heaven hell and purgatory
And at the same time share a little usefull information and personal anaysis, spin a little bull**** and at times get righteous and indignant
What more could you ask from a website?


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## dutchie (30 July 2010)

Sails - I agree that it might just be that I need to change the way I access ASF.

I can agree with a lot of the sentiment expressed by other posters to make threads more relevant to stocks and trading.

However I can see that in nearly every forum I have visited there are always posters who want to make general observations on life, the news etc.

If the General Chat threads are not on the main page then newbies may not even know that there are General Chat threads.

Some of the threads *are* relevant to the stock market (i.e. which political party is in power, what new policies are being considered etc).

Would it be possible to extend the new post list so that you can go further back (past the 21 odd shown initially)?


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## nioka (30 July 2010)

dutchie said:


> Would it be possible to extend the new post list so that you can go further back (past the 21 odd shown initially)?




If I've been away from the computer for a period I always have clicked on "New Posts" because in goes back to include posts not currently on the home page. It shows all the posts since you last logged on not just the 21 odd. Just click on page 2 etc.


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## Julia (30 July 2010)

Joe, you're providing us with a free forum, so the decisions are yours, of course.
I did prefer the General Chat threads being included on the Home Page but can easily access these via the "Forums" link.

I've found the New Posts link only gives a complete picture if you have read right through it on the previous visit.  Ditto clicking on the icon which takes you to the "first new post".  If you haven't read a particular thread during the previous log in, these don't take you back actually to the last post you did read but just to the last post that was made when you were previously logged on.
Sorry, that's a horribly garbled explanation.

Personally I liked Timmy's idea of the Home Page being split into two:  the stock and stock related threads, and the general chat threads.
It has previously been observed that especially the political threads are very relevant to what happens in the business world and therefore markets, so should not be dismissed as irrelevant or unimportant.  

Just looking at many of the stock threads, and of course this is just a personal view, I wouldn't even access most of them because they're stocks that rarely fit my risk profile.  But I do understand that there are many who like trading these.

I don't think any of us know exactly why, but I'd say the fall off in support and in posts has been for two main reasons:  1.  the current market conditions - whilst Nioka, e.g. enjoys this situation I think many more prefer to stand aside until there's more stability.   2.  the "them and us" culture which has developed between the apparently acknowledged trading experts and those with less experience, both technically and in a general financial sense.  The experts can be humiliatingly cutting and sarcastic and imo this would be very offputting to someone whose offence is simply inexperience.
We have all, I'd say, asked some dumb questions at some stage.

That said, I'd hate to see ASF turned into some prissy sort of politically correct environment where we can't have fun, be derogatory about politicians etc.  I did feel a bit like a schoolgirl yesterday when I read the directive to be a "good citizen", though I do understand the motivation behind the directive.

Dunno, Joe, you have a tough job if you're trying to please all of us.  Probably impossible.   Unless the general chat threads are banished altogether in order to create a purely stock forum, I'm happy to adapt to whatever format you think is best.  Thanks for giving us an opportunity to make our suggestions.


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## Wysiwyg (30 July 2010)

nioka said:


> Regardless of the manner that the posts are available I have seen the fall off of stock related posts over the last couple of years.



 As has been posted before, the stock market took a huge dive and I assume many did not know how to handle it and lost a lot of hard earned during it. I am positive the majority are very reluctant to enter the market and thus chat stocks on forums. Why can't you understand this? 


> I have noticed the number of those logged on at any time reduce.



Have you also noticed there are twice or three times more guests looking than there are registered users logged in?


> What we need for the forum to survive and I mean survive, is that there were more stock related posts.



There is a fine balance of stock and non stock related posts here. When the bull is running there is more posts stock related and while the market is in the downers there is obviously less. Is this not blatantly obvious?


> Remember this is a FREE forum and by free I mean no cost to those logging on. As such it relies on advertisers. I doubt that the advertisers are happy to contribute to a "general chat show".



 How would you know what advertisers see? They are primarily looking for exposure and they get plenty here by the hundreds of guests that peruse and/or join this site every day.


> If there are those that only want to chat then they have to live with the fact that this is basically a stock forum that provides facilities to chat. We live in a commercial world. There are not a lot of freebies.



People make up their own minds. You do not determine who posts what and where on this forum. There is a great mix and forum layout which makes this forum unique from the other Australian Stock Forums.


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## nunthewiser (30 July 2010)

Wysiwyg said:


> As has been posted before, the stock market took a huge dive and I assume many did not know how to handle it and lost a lot of hard earned during it. I am positive the majority are very reluctant to enter the market and thus chat stocks on forums. Why can't you understand this?   Have you also noticed there are twice or three times more guests looking than there are registered users logged in?
> There is a fine balance of stock and non stock related posts here. When the bull is running there is more posts stock related and while the market is in the downers there is obviously less. Is this not blatantly obvious?
> How would you know what advertisers see? They are primarily looking for exposure and they get plenty here by the hundreds of guests that peruse and/or join this site every day.
> 
> People make up there own minds. You do not determine who posts what and where on this forum. There is a great mix and forum layout which makes this forum unique from the other Australian Stock Forums.




Good post.


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## Tink (30 July 2010)

Hi Joe

My feedback is - I dont mind either way, as General is still as easy to find this way if you want to look at it.

I can understand you changing it, especially for the newcomers

Keep up the good work, to you and the moderators.

Regards, Tink


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## nioka (30 July 2010)

Wysiwyg said:


> As has been posted before, the stock market took a huge dive and I assume many did not know how to handle it and lost a lot of hard earned during it. I am positive the majority are very reluctant to enter the market and thus chat stocks on forums. Why can't you understand this?



I dont understand why you cant see that ....you....are wrong, wrong wrong.


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## Agentm (30 July 2010)

Joe Blow said:


> The profile of the General Chat forum and indeed the very existence of the General Chat forum seems to be an issue that polarises ASF members.
> 
> Two responses to the change and two *very* different opinions. This change can be rolled back with the click of a button so I am very interested in getting some more feedback on this.




imho general chat is for the time wasters, its not really forum investment material, and having it separate is a brilliant move, it also lets you identify those who are just there to chat and those whom are really contributing to quality of stock threads and stock issues..

sure i can appreciate the popular chatters that never post on the stock threads will not see their threads up all the time, but who cares, they clutter up the important stock threads, which is why we are all here isnt it??


please dont change it around, for me seeing the schapelle corby thread or the julian gillard thread gone is a huge relief..

is it possible to have a longer index page on the home page?  one that expands a few pages longer?  or scrolls down a long long way further??

cheers


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## trainspotter (30 July 2010)

A lot of the people who contribute to the General Chat thread also contribute to the Stock Thread and vice versa. If the General Chat is dominating the boards then obviously there is not much happening on the stock market? If you don't want to talk politics or fishing or property or music ... *THEN DON'T !*

I believe that the reason most of us hang in here is that we actually enjoy the format and the discussions that go on. By homogonizing ASF into a stock only focus takes away the character of the place.

Joe has struck the right balance with ASF thus far. Let's not wreck a good thing. If politics dominate the boards and stock quips are pushed down who is to say that if it becomes stock only that someone might just continually BUMP their favourite stock consistently either ramping or looking to unload or push their own agenda on stocks that others would not touch due to risk aversion?

We are entering dangerous waters IMO.


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## professor_frink (30 July 2010)

Julia said:


> I've found the New Posts link only gives a complete picture if you have read right through it on the previous visit.  Ditto clicking on the icon which takes you to the "first new post".  If you haven't read a particular thread during the previous log in, these don't take you back actually to the last post you did read but just to the last post that was made when you were previously logged on.
> Sorry, that's a horribly garbled explanation.




Hi Julia, I know what you mean here, if you log in and don't stay long, then come back an hour later, then the new posts section won't give you a complete list of what you haven't read. An easy way around this is to go to the 'quicklinks' section (to the right of the new posts button) and click on 'today's posts', this will give you a list similar to the one generated by the new posts button, but will incorporate every post for the past 24 hours, whether you've already read it or not.

Hope this helps


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## Timmy (30 July 2010)

nioka said:


> It is not that the general interest is not there either. eg.
> Posts on ASF re CER for the last 100 days 2 , posts on another forum so far for July 58.
> Posts on ASF for BUL for the last 100 days 7, posts on the other forum so far for July 64.
> 
> ...




The assertion that there isn't much happening on the market and therefore not much posting does not fit with the facts. 

nioka posted the above quote a few pages ago, and it bears repeating for those that must not have read it.


----------



## Agentm (30 July 2010)

trainspotter said:


> A lot of the people who contribute to the General Chat thread also contribute to the Stock Thread and vice versa. If the General Chat is dominating the boards then obviously there is not much happening on the stock market? If you don't want to talk politics or fishing or property or music ... *THEN DON'T !*
> 
> I believe that the reason most of us hang in here is that we actually enjoy the format and the discussions that go on. By homogonizing ASF into a stock only focus takes away the character of the place.
> 
> ...




totally disagree, and waters are calm and tranquil with the riff raff chatter gone.. at last!!!

the balance should be on stock threads, its a stock forum..

all the character of the general chat forum remains just as it always was,, the forum is still there, but now its where it should be, a sub folder for time wasters,,

having the natter of garbage opinions on schapelle, or some bushfire or crappy  football club is irrelevant to the majority..

who care what a handful of time wasters on a sub folder general chat forum think.. its all just ego trips for the volume posters.. you can still go there and post on them all  like, and all you get there is the usual suspects with opinionated views blasting other usual suspect forums members..

bring on the homogenisation and lets filter that trash general chat forum out of the front page..

no mere glory posters..  its great to have a professional looking page with stock and market only content...

keep up the good work joe..


----------



## trainspotter (30 July 2010)

trainspotter said:


> I like what you have done with the "general chat" not appearing on the main menu scene #1 home page. Very clever. Thank you Joe !




Thanks Agentm ..... I wrote this on post #86. What I meant about the General Chat is that if you do not want to join in then don't. My point was that it is possible for someone to bump their stock on the front page consistently. I like the way the General Chat is now on page #2.

So the picture you placed on the "Inflation" thread of a half naked woman jumping out of a pool was stock related how? It was deleted by the mods BTW.


----------



## Timmy (30 July 2010)

trainspotter said:


> My point was that it is possible for someone to bump their stock on the front page consistently.




Possible, yes.
Continuing, no. 

:behead:


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## jonojpsg (30 July 2010)

Timmy said:


> The assertion that there isn't much happening on the market and therefore not much posting does not fit with the facts.
> 
> nioka posted the above quote a few pages ago, and it bears repeating for those that must not have read it.




OK then I'll reassert my subsequent post that the majority, if not vast majority, of those posts would have been useless in terms of FA, TA, news, etc.  There is simply not something new to be said about a stock every day, or even every week sometimes.

Let's just keep useful updates on our own watchlists in the public arena and that way everyone benefits from everyone else's hard work


----------



## nunthewiser (30 July 2010)

Timmy said:


> The assertion that there isn't much happening on the market and therefore not much posting does not fit with the facts.
> 
> nioka posted the above quote a few pages ago, and it bears repeating for those that must not have read it.




The facts are .

1. Hot flopper has a larger member base
2. 60% of those posts are a waste of time and low quality ramps like "go XYZ" or "XYZ is on the move" etc
3. even hotfloppers numbers on stock posts has vastly declined since the GFC
4. how about a comparison on other stocks and a % compared to client numbers . try AUT for example
5. ASF stock posts may not be as many NOR are the member numbers but what IS posted tends to be of a quality content.
6. Joe could always lower the 100 character rule so we could also post "go xyz" to lift the post count per stock to keep some people happy.

Joe what you have done by removing General chat from home page is a good move in my view .
General chat threads are  essential here also.

Personally think hotflopper is a joke for content amd moderation tends to be somewhat biased dependant on what the moderators may be holding at the time.

That was my 2 cents........ personally im over the whole "why cant we be like them" bullsheet.


----------



## prawn_86 (30 July 2010)

jonojpsg said:


> There is simply not something new to be said about a stock every day, or even every week sometimes.




I think this is a good point, especially for a smaller stock. Things dont happen every day, sure the price may move, but its just daily movement.

Other forums have people posting the same analysis/ramps/what if scenarios every day as the original posts get lost in the crap. We are all for posting analysis and scenarios, but unless the company announces something as changed there is little else that can be discussed


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## kgee (30 July 2010)

I say Black $1000 no let me go Red $1000


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## Timmy (30 July 2010)

nunthewiser said:


> The facts are .
> 
> 1. Hot flopper has a larger member base
> 2. 60% of those posts are a waste of time and low quality ramps like "go XYZ" or "XYZ is on the move" etc
> ...




jono, prawn and nun, at the risk of :horse:
let me make a few points in response to nun's post:

1., 2. & 3.  If we had 20% of the posts on HC that would be a huge increase.
4. Fair comment.  Though the biatch-fighting on AUT has tended to increase the number of posts there 
5. True, I think nioka's point is to get more.
6. 100 characters isn't much.  Just insult someone 

Re moderation, of course ASF is better 

As to not much happening at the ASX and companies there, check this link out, ASX announcements today up 'till now.  There's hundreds here! Not much happening ... please guys, pull the other one.
http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/todayAnns.do


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## trainspotter (30 July 2010)

Was going to post something extremely invigorating and not insulting anyone but I got timed out


----------



## nioka (30 July 2010)

nunthewiser said:


> how about a comparison on other stocks and a % compared to client numbers . try AUT for example6




Try CER for example. Why:
1. CER and CNP are my most active stock this week.
2. News was released this week that is vital to knowing about the companies an dtheir prospects.
3 No posts on ASF since July 22 for CER.
4. Posts on another forum in that time 55

Sample of some posts 



"How come CNP ended up going 5% up while CER went in reverse gear?"

1. CNP had fallen more than CER.
2. CNP has more to gain because it has a lot more to lose than CER. CER debt situation regarding timetables for refinancing was not as critical as that for CNP.
3. CNP needed to buy more time to avoid dilution so getting that extension was of more value to CNP than to CER.CER faces no dilution at this stage.
4. Possibly because of 1,2 and 3 there were some selling CER and returning to CNP including some day traders.
5. CER holders were disappointed that there was no progress towards separation mentioned. I was.
All the above are just my opinions but hopefully they are informed ones. 

AND

There is no news here. This morning's price action is the usual hype. Neither astonishing nor distressing for those who are long term holders. The debt was never not going to be refinanced/rolled over. Not now. Thinking this was a possiblity would have been stupidity.

What has now officially been forshadowed however is that CER and CNP well and truly became a long term proposition if it wasn't already before. I think this is a good thing. There isn't going to be much more news for the parasite traders to jump on.

The announcement also highlights what many of us know/knew. The decoupling/unwinding/separation/recapitalisation or whatever we wish to call it is complicated in the extreme. The announcement forshadows another 18 months of strategising (end 2011) on how best to achieve this without making CNP technically insolvent. We can still thank Andrew Scott for these layers of complexity.

Defab (and Swap....where is he/she???) nailed it a long time ago. CER is the linchpin (especially so insofar as CNP is concerned. If property management is internalised upon any separation then there is tremendous potential upside above and beyond mere property revaluations.

Now I find those posts helpful ???? I rest my case.


----------



## nunthewiser (30 July 2010)

nioka said:


> Try CER for example. Why:
> 1. CER and CNP are my most active stock this week.
> 2. News was released this week that is vital to knowing about the companies an dtheir prospects.
> 3 No posts on ASF since July 22 for CER.
> .




So why not post something on them instead of whingeing about it? It may create discussion.

i rest my case.


----------



## nunthewiser (30 July 2010)

Timmy said:


> 6. 100 characters isn't much.  Just insult someone
> 
> 
> ]




likes 6.


----------



## nioka (30 July 2010)

nunthewiser said:


> So why not post something on them instead of whingeing about it? It may create discussion.
> 
> i rest my case.




I have. It didn't get much of a response. I will again in the near future. I'm too busy trying to get others to post and have to get the time for a researched point of view before I post. I don't claim to be the Guru I just want to know what others think of the stocks i want to research. I hope I do my share of posting on stocks


As far as creating discussion I think I started some decent discussion on this topic.

I rest my case again.


----------



## nunthewiser (30 July 2010)

nioka said:


> I rest my case again.




hahahahahah 

have a great day


----------



## Timmy (30 July 2010)

nunthewiser said:


> likes 6.




Thats cause you are a **** *** ***** *** **** ***** *****.

There, I think thats 100.  Easy


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## trainspotter (30 July 2010)

Hahahah aa aha a .... abuse by * ! Is that a snowflake?  <*(((><  (fish)


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## Ruby (30 July 2010)

I am in favour of the new arrangement, with "General Chat" removed from the home page.

If ASF is meant to be primarily a stock forum, then threads pertaining to the market are what should appear on the home page.  This is the first thing that new visitors see. (First impressions and all that.)

I enjoy some of the "General Chat" threads (and sometimes spend more time there than common sense dictates I should), but they are mostly frivolous and time wasting, or just comic relief, and should be relegated to a minor position.

Ruby


----------



## Julia (30 July 2010)

professor_frink said:


> Hi Julia, I know what you mean here, if you log in and don't stay long, then come back an hour later, then the new posts section won't give you a complete list of what you haven't read. An easy way around this is to go to the 'quicklinks' section (to the right of the new posts button) and click on 'today's posts', this will give you a list similar to the one generated by the new posts button, but will incorporate every post for the past 24 hours, whether you've already read it or not.
> 
> Hope this helps



Ah, thank you indeed, Prof Frink.  That's very happy-making.



Agentm said:


> totally disagree, and waters are calm and tranquil with the riff raff chatter gone.. at last!!!
> 
> the balance should be on stock threads, its a stock forum..
> 
> ...



How do you know what the majority enjoys?  Have you run a survey to establish this?



> who care what a handful of time wasters on a sub folder general chat forum think.. its all just ego trips for the volume posters.. you can still go there and post on them all  like, and all you get there is the usual suspects with opinionated views blasting other usual suspect forums members..



There may well be some trivial threads, but no one is asking you to read them.  I don't find it hard to just ignore them.
And, frankly, as someone who values the exchange of political views, I find your attitude rude and offensive.



nioka said:


> Try CER for example. Why:
> 1. CER and CNP are my most active stock this week.
> 2. News was released this week that is vital to knowing about the companies an dtheir prospects.
> 3 No posts on ASF since July 22 for CER.
> ...



Nioka, no doubt they are indeed informed opinions, as obviously you have taken a strong interest in CNP and CER.
But they are stocks with zero appeal to me, and I'd imagine, to many others, so I don't really want to be told I should be taking an interest in them and putting up posts just to make you happy.


----------



## nunthewiser (30 July 2010)

Timmy said:


> Thats cause you are a **** *** ***** *** **** ***** *****.




I resemble that comment.

I have reported that personal attack to a moderator and you assured me you have dealt with it severely 

ok i will now resume my mature and serious postings and leave the joking around and off topic comments to others


----------



## Timmy (30 July 2010)

Julia said:


> Nioka, no doubt they are indeed informed opinions, as obviously you have taken a strong interest in CNP and CER.
> But they are stocks with zero appeal to me, and I'd imagine, to many others, so I don't really want to be told I should be taking an interest in them and putting up posts just to make you happy.




I know you are directing this at nioka, but I will stick my big head in (as usual).  I think all nioka is asking is for more input on the stocks and markets that do you interest you.  You are a regular contributor to non-General Chat threads so I imagine his comments are not directed to you at all (nioka will correct me if I am wrong).

From my perspective, the inputs I have seen across the forum (and not just on stock threads, since my interests lie in futures) since nioka started this thread have been very positive.  Would anyone agree with this impression?


----------



## Joe Blow (30 July 2010)

I would like to urge everyone to express their feedback in a respectful way. Not pointing fingers here, just trying to keep things civil and constructive.

I am taking on board all feedback that has been posted and I am very grateful to everyone for sharing their opinions. It is great food for thought. Please keep it coming!

However, there is one very important thing I should mention at this point. ASF as everyone knows it will only be around for another few weeks or so. There are some very big changes in store that have been in development behind the scenes for quite some time. I'm not going to elaborate much further right now but for those who have been waiting for better mobile device (iPhone, BlackBerry etc.) and Facebook integration, it is coming soon. I will announce more details when we are a little closer to launching ASF Mark III.


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## nioka (30 July 2010)

Julia said:


> Nioka, no doubt they are indeed informed opinions, as obviously you have taken a strong interest in CNP and CER.
> But they are stocks with zero appeal to me, and I'd imagine, to many others, so I don't really want to be told I should be taking an interest in them and putting up posts just to make you happy.




Julia,
Heaven forbid that anyone should be told what they should be interested in or when and why they should post. BUT this IS a stock forum that lately has been bogged down with CHAT and plenty of RUBBISH chat to a point that it wasnt worth logging on for any useful STOCK information.

I'm not trying to stop chat of any kind. I do have a couple of posters on "ignore". Feel free to put me there if you feel I am telling you something you no longer want to hear.


----------



## Julia (30 July 2010)

Timmy said:


> I know you are directing this at nioka, but I will stick my big head in (as usual).  I think all nioka is asking is for more input on the stocks and markets that do you interest you.  You are a regular contributor to non-General Chat threads so I imagine his comments are not directed to you at all (nioka will correct me if I am wrong).



Timmy, I get that Nioka wants more stock commentary in general, and on his own stocks in particular.  Re my own contribution, I do comment on stocks that I'm familiar with if I want to agree with or raise an alternative view to a post, but I'm fairly unlikely to be initiating comments just now purely because I'm staying in cash at present and not looking to buy anything.

We will all post according to pur own areas of interest which will in turn reflect our particular financial situations, ages, whether we have sources of income other than the market etc etc.

Also, I have to admit I'm a bit over repetitive arguments on differing approaches to investing/trading.  There's a strong element which seems to insist that only a few approaches are valid and others are fair game for disparagement.   



> From my perspective, the inputs I have seen across the forum (and not just on stock threads, since my interests lie in futures) since nioka started this thread have been very positive.  Would anyone agree with this impression?



I'm not sure what you mean when you say inputs have been very positive. Could you perhaps be a bit more specific?


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## trainspotter (30 July 2010)

Looking forward to toying with and enjoying ASF Mark III Joe ! 

Seems a can of worms has been opened here in the old one.

TS over and out.


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## Joe Blow (30 July 2010)

Before a brawl starts here I think it should be said that I *do not* consider those who participate in General Chat threads to be "time wasters". There is a time and a place for both stock market related chat and general chat. The reason I have taken General Chat threads out of the "Recent Threads" module on the front page is because I want to present a more focussed stock market related image to newcomers and to encourage more trading/investing related discussion as well. 

Now please, can we all resist the temptation to attack others over their views on this issue? Nobody is right and nobody is wrong, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.


----------



## jonojpsg (30 July 2010)

nioka said:


> Try CER for example. Why:
> 1. CER and CNP are my most active stock this week.
> 2. News was released this week that is vital to knowing about the companies an dtheir prospects.
> 3 No posts on ASF since July 22 for CER.
> ...




Yes but you have sampled those posts nioka!!  How useful are the other 95%??  This is my point, a small percentage might be useful, the rest aren't.

And yes there is obviously news out about CNP which deserves comment.

Now, as far as Timmys point about the number of ASX announcements out so far today - hmm, well you have chosen the day that most companies release their quarterly reports so yes I imagine there would be a truckload of releases to wade through and there will be LOTS to talk about over the next week or two.  

On any other day though, most of the many announcements that come out are simply paperwork that deserves little if any attention (IMO of course).


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (30 July 2010)

I like ASF. I also like the various forums that ASF provides. 

I would like to see more stock chat and quality acceptance of the various methods and techniques that ALL work for different reasons depending on context and circumstances. The derision of lagging indicators is an example. 

I like the new change on the new posts feed. 

Keep up the good work Joe!


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## nioka (30 July 2010)

jonojpsg said:


> Yes but you have sampled those posts nioka!!  How useful are the other 95%??  This is my point, a small percentage might be useful, the rest aren't.



 It is better to have a hundred posts where there are a few good ones than to have NONE. With some of the chat threads here you will/would find the same problem. (And those two weren't the only useful ones.)


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (30 July 2010)

nioka said:


> It is better to have a hundred posts where there are a few good ones than to have NONE. With some of the chat threads here you will/would find the same problem. (And those two weren't the only useful ones.)



I agree with more posts as they create interest. No posts create shallowness in more ways than one - though at times there is no need. Regular updates or some opinions would be interesting. Rhetorical questions perhaps?


----------



## Timmy (30 July 2010)

jonojpsg said:


> Now, as far as Timmys point about the number of ASX announcements out so far today - hmm, well you have chosen the day that most companies release their quarterly reports so yes I imagine there would be a truckload of releases to wade through and there will be LOTS to talk about over the next week or two.




You are right, not so many normally.  Just lucky I guess.


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## craigj (30 July 2010)

my suggestion to reinvigorate this forum is to focus more on education

we are all learning everyday and seek further knowledge.

weekly editorials / articles from the more educated members would be great

eg. what to look for when reading drilling reports
     how to swing trade 
     traditionally good and bad months on the ASX


a forum on day trading would be good


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## Julia (30 July 2010)

nioka said:


> Julia,
> Heaven forbid that anyone should be told what they should be interested in or when and why they should post. BUT this IS a stock forum that lately has been bogged down with CHAT and plenty of RUBBISH chat to a point that it wasnt worth logging on for any useful STOCK information.



We're going round in circles here but I was just trying to suggest that (a) many people are just not involved in the market at present, and (b) those who are may not necessarily be interested in the stocks that you like.



> I'm not trying to stop chat of any kind. I do have a couple of posters on "ignore". Feel free to put me there if you feel I am telling you something you no longer want to hear.



I don't have any need to 'put you on Ignore' Nioka.  I've found many of your posts interesting over the years.   I've just been feeling that perhaps you've been expecting others to share your own enjoyment of trading the stocks that you do and/or the market in general, when in the present climate we simply do not all want to.  Maybe some of us just don't have your level of courage and confidence.

I've said several times now that I don't care what the format of ASF is and if no general chat threads appear on the Recent Posts/Home page then that's fine with me.   

What's not fine is when posters launch into gratuitous and unpleasant accusations that everyone who posts in any general chat thread is a time waster etc. (can't now remember the other insults).   Why not just say that the change is good and is appreciated without having to take a swipe at others?
(Btw, nioka, absolutely not suggesting that you have done anything like this.)



trainspotter said:


> Thanks Agentm .....
> 
> So the picture you placed on the "Inflation" thread of a half naked woman jumping out of a pool was stock related how?



Enough said.


----------



## Calliope (30 July 2010)

This thread is wrongly listed as "ASX Stock Chat". It is actually "General Chat" and it has generated quite a bit of general chatter, even from those who denigrate "General Chat."


----------



## Wysiwyg (30 July 2010)

craigj said:


> my suggestion to reinvigorate this forum is to focus more on education
> we are all learning everyday and seek further knowledge.
> *weekly editorials / articles from the more educated members would be great
> eg. what to look for when reading drilling reports
> ...




From my observation over the years there are plenty of experienced market participants that simply don't want to share their many (usually costly) years of experiences and knowledge freely to unknowns. 
They all had to 'pay a price' to get where they are.

Mind you there are plenty of bull dung artists in this game looking for newbies to sell their wares (and shares) to.


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## Logique (31 July 2010)

The comment was at best abrupt, and scarcely a good advertisement for the poster's point of view. It was appropriate that the poster was pulled up on this. I have no problem with agent, who has shall we say, a very direct style, but you know what to expect. I don't take it personally, but some will, and that's the point.



> Quote:
> 
> totally disagree, and waters are calm and tranquil with the riff raff chatter gone.. at last!!!
> 
> ...


----------



## trainspotter (31 July 2010)

It seems to me that by moving General Chat to page #2 the traffic has definitely slowed down. 

Take the Federal Election thread for instance:-  Latest polls out show Coalition has the lead in primary votes? Kruddy is in hospital having his gall bladder removed, Latham has hit Kruddy on the head as the leak meister ...... and not a peep about any of this.  Other threads in there are barely moving either. Regular posters have done the Elvis and left the building.

I also notice the boffins on the share threads with all the technical analysis have ceased posting as well. No point saying "AAA stock has a new board and is paying off debt so therefore they should be able to trade their way out of trouble thus IMO increasing their ASX price" .... zero analysis. No data. No graphs or J curve models with bells and whistles. In other words NO FACTS !

Meanwhile a tirade of abuse is going on in the Wellington Capital thread. Ho hum.

*rant over* ... place chair into upright position and prepare for landing.


----------



## Calliope (31 July 2010)

I did my bit today to try to "reinvigorate" an interest in Hybrid Securities. I find however that what interests some, others find boring. Ninety percent of the stock posts are very boring, and are mainly about self-interest.

Stock forums without chat are like bread without butter. And in the words of our late (but unlamented) PM it adds a bit of "argy bargy." Which I find entertaining. But heaven forbid that we should find a stock forum entertaining, I hear you say.


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## Julia (31 July 2010)

trainspotter said:


> It seems to me that by moving General Chat to page #2 the traffic has definitely slowed down.
> 
> Take the Federal Election thread for instance:-  Latest polls out show Coalition has the lead in primary votes? Kruddy is in hospital having his gall bladder removed, Latham has hit Kruddy on the head as the leak meister ...... and not a peep about any of this.  Other threads in there are barely moving either. Regular posters have done the Elvis and left the building



Not too surprising, TS, when contributions to general chat apparently invite personal insults and gratuitous invective.  Why would anyone want to hang about for more?


----------



## SM Junkie (31 July 2010)

A silly suggestion... but I'd like to see a little "like"button.  I really enjoy and agree with some members posts, but don't say so because it does to contribute to the discussion.


----------



## sails (31 July 2010)

trainspotter said:


> It seems to me that by moving General Chat to page #2 the traffic has definitely slowed down. ...




:iagree:  With a highly emotive federal election only three weeks away, normally the political threads would be buzzing. Not so since the changes. 

I have enjoyed reading the views of others in general chat.  While it might be considered a "time waster" to some, it is enjoyed and appreciated by others.  One persons trash may well be another's treasure.  Those that don't like it - don't read the threads!

Joe, I have a suggestion too.  Is there anyway that members could choose which forums are displayed on the home page?  Something that we could edit ourselves in a similar manner to the ignore facility?  Perhaps set the default to how it is now for newcomers, but once they are members, they have the ability to elect which forums they would like displayed on the home page?



SM Junkie said:


> A silly suggestion... but I'd like to see a little "like"button.  I really enjoy and agree with some members posts, but don't say so because it does to contribute to the discussion.



I quite like this idea too.  It is a way of showing approval or support for a post where there is nothing else worthwhile to add...


----------



## nunthewiser (31 July 2010)

SM Junkie said:


> A silly suggestion... but I'd like to see a little "like"button.  I really enjoy and agree with some members posts, but don't say so because it does to contribute to the discussion.


----------



## Joe Blow (31 July 2010)

SM Junkie said:


> but I'd like to see a little "like"button.




Facebook "like" buttons are coming initially for threads only but the depth of the FB integration will increase in time. I also plan to introduce a "Thank you" button for posts, so ASF members can thank others for their posts without having to reply and say so.



sails said:


> Joe, I have a suggestion too.  Is there anyway that members could choose which forums are displayed on the home page?  Something that we could edit ourselves in a similar manner to the ignore facility?  Perhaps set the default to how it is now for newcomers, but once they are members, they have the ability to elect which forums they would like displayed on the home page?




Unfortunately not right now, although this kind of sophisticated functionality may be possible in the not-too-distant future. 

This time next month ASF will look like a completely different website, so right now, behind the scenes, we are very much in a period of transition. What I can promise you is that I am doing my best to ensure that while the focus will remain on market related threads, General Chat threads will not be completely left out in the cold. 

In my relentless and perhaps misguided attempt to please as many people as possible I am working with the designer on a solution that will hopefully satisfy both camps.


----------



## springhill (31 July 2010)

Joe Blow said:


> Unfortunately not right now, although this kind of sophisticated functionality may be possible in the not-too-distant future.




Sooooo Mr Blow..... or should that be *MR RUDD!!!!!!*
Unmasked at last.


----------



## sails (31 July 2010)

Joe, thanks for the reply.  And your efforts to keep such a diverse lot happy wouldn't be an easy task, however, it is much appreciated...


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## Calliope (31 July 2010)

Joe Blow said:


> *General Chat threads will not be completely left out in the cold. *




That sounds ominous Joe. It's a little like Gillard saying little miners will not be left out in the cold under her government. Fair enough, you're running a business and General Chat generates nothing but entertainment for oldies like me.


----------



## explod (31 July 2010)

Calliope said:


> That sounds ominous Joe. It's a little like Gillard saying little miners will not be left out in the cold under her government. Fair enough, you're running a business and General Chat generates nothing but entertainment for oldies like me.




Agree but where's the problem?    I still keep going into that page just to make sure the .... are staying honest (as if I would know mind).   Where as pure traders will stay with the front page (which is the prime goal of the ASF site anyway) and not be annoyed by some of us oldies headlining in front of them all the time with trivia.

And as you said, it is for the amusement/entertainment of us oldies so to speak.

Well done ASF, the site is better by far and we have some exciting new things to sift apart from all this soon.


----------



## Joe Blow (31 July 2010)

springhill said:


> Sooooo Mr Blow..... or should that be *MR RUDD!!!!!!*
> Unmasked at last.




LOL! Busted. 



sails said:


> Joe, thanks for the reply.  And your efforts to keep such a diverse lot happy wouldn't be an easy task, however, it is much appreciated...




You're welcome. 



Calliope said:


> That sounds ominous Joe. It's a little like Gillard saying little miners will not be left out in the cold under her government. Fair enough, you're running a business and General Chat generates nothing but entertainment for oldies like me.




I guess what I was trying to say is that although I want the focus to remain on market related threads, it's not my intention to discourage the use of the General Chat forum. I know that it's both a popular and well used forum and hopefully the new website design will increase its profile somewhat. I urge everyone to continue to participate in threads in the General Chat forum and keep it active. Some great discussions happen in there and I want to see that continue.


----------



## overit (31 July 2010)

Joe Blow said:


> I also plan to introduce a "Thank you" button for posts, so ASF members can thank others for their posts without having to reply and say so.




Great idea!


----------



## noirua (31 July 2010)

The General Chat Forum can be very useful in times like 'The Great Panic of 2008' and 'Dot-com collapse in 2000'. In the latter, many Financial forums collapsed into disuse as there was not a General Chat Forum setup.
I feel there is a great danger in disregarding General Chat and pushing it into the background, 'off the front page' and feel this could endanger ASF at some future date if it has no proper, perhaps, page 2 list of recent posts.
There was a time when I was a member of 21 financial forums and most of these are now in the graveyard - noi


----------



## Calliope (31 July 2010)

Joe Blow said:


> I guess what I was trying to say is that although I want the focus to remain on market related threads, it's not my intention to discourage the use of the General Chat forum. I know that it's both a popular and well used forum and hopefully the new website design will increase its profile somewhat. I urge everyone to continue to participate in threads in the General Chat forum and keep it active. Some great discussions happen in there and I want to see that continue.




Thanks for that assurance Joe.


----------



## Smurf1976 (31 July 2010)

My thinking is that the proportion of stock / non-stock posts on ASF is a function of the market environment and could of itself quite likely be used as a buy/sell indicator in a contrarian manner. 

If nobody's posting about stocks on a stock market forum then that suggests that the general public has lost interest in stocks and vice versa. That seems like a potentially useful gauge of market sentiment to me.


----------



## So_Cynical (31 July 2010)

Joe Blow said:


> I also plan to introduce a "Thank you" button for posts, so ASF members can thank others for their posts without having to reply and say so.




Thank you buttons can be abused like Karma buttons etc...it can quickly degenerate into a "how many thankyou's can i get wankathon".


----------



## nioka (31 July 2010)

Smurf1976 said:


> My thinking is that the proportion of stock / non-stock posts on ASF is a function of the market environment and could of itself quite likely be used as a buy/sell indicator in a contrarian manner.
> 
> If nobody's posting about stocks on a stock market forum then that suggests that the general public has lost interest in stocks and vice versa. That seems like a potentially useful gauge of market sentiment to me.




Odd that it is not happening on other forums ???????????????????????????????

Seems like a potentially useful gauge of public sentiment towards ASF to me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## nioka (31 July 2010)

noirua said:


> There was a time when I was a member of 21 financial forums and most of these are now in the graveyard - noi



 I think that ASF was in danger of becoming another unless there were more stock posts.


----------



## Wysiwyg (31 July 2010)

> Odd that it is not happening on other forums ???????????????????????????????



Other forums are less restrictive of stock post content. That is the main reason. Gee whiz is that not obvious too.


----------



## nioka (31 July 2010)

Wysiwyg said:


> Other forums are less restrictive of stock post content. That is the main reason. Gee whiz is that not obvious too.



It is obvious to me that this excuse is a cop out. For the life of me I fail to see why that comment keeps coming up, it is not a valid comment. If it was the only reason then why not change the rules?. It is not the reason and I, for one, am happy with the rules.


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## wayneL (1 August 2010)

nioka said:


> It is obvious to me that this excuse is a cop out. For the life of me I fail to see why that comment keeps coming up, it is not a valid comment. If it was the only reason then why not change the rules?. It is not the reason and I, for one, am happy with the rules.




It does stop the pure volume of posts however... such as "choo - choo!" "next stop the moon" "all aboard!" and other such drivel.

Also, pure ramping is moderated out as well. 

90% of posts on some other forums are of the above variety.

If ASF had *20%* of the stock posts of those forums and such posts were of some quality, that would put ASF miles in front of those others. For me, as I am now running a business here in NZ, I don't have the will or the time to wade through the verbal diarrhoea in search of the occasional useful morsel.

If I want to see pure activity on a certain stock, I can simply run a scan and see it on the chart... job done.


----------



## Calliope (1 August 2010)

I think GumbyLearner hit on the reason why certain posters are conducting a campaign against Gen.Chat.



> I agree that this forum has been hi-jacked with politics.
> 
> I would prefer this to be forum where I can read threads I'm interested in.
> 
> Surely the mods could come up with a piece of code that would block out the political banter. So that the helpful contributors could be focused on!




It is obvious from the thread on the 2010 Election Poll that posters favoured the Coalition over Labor by nearly six to one.

This should not worry Stock posters. It is only natural that most posters to a Stock Forum come from the conservative side of politics. After all the stock market is the most popular avenue for access to free enterprise.


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## Wysiwyg (1 August 2010)

Ultimately the stock threads are about imparting technical or fundamental observations. Taking time out to do this is mostly to help others although a dash of self-serving is also present.


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## nioka (1 August 2010)

Wysiwyg said:


> Ultimately the stock threads are about imparting technical or fundamental observations. Taking time out to do this is mostly to help others although a dash of self-serving is also present.




I'd like to think that it is the SHARING of information is the reason to post. Informed trading and investing does away with the blindfold and the pin and is more likely to be successful.


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## Logique (1 August 2010)

An analogy: a retail strip that includes a vibrant cafe scene will draw more shoppers, who in turn will open their wallets and spend in the furniture outlet, the deli or the bookstore. General Chat is the cafe scene of ASF. These folks visit the other forums, and will share their largesse in the form of advice and analysis, and put us onto some good stocks.

Joe is quite right to demand links and charts in forum replies, and to moderate out offensive comments. He sees the value of focusing on how things are said, rather than just where.


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## nioka (1 August 2010)

Logique said:


> An analogy: a retail strip that includes a vibrant cafe scene will draw more shoppers, who in turn will open their wallets and spend in the furniture outlet, the deli or the bookstore. General Chat is the cafe scene of ASF. These folks visit the other forums, and will share their largesse in the form of advice and analysis, and put us onto some good stocks.
> 
> Joe is quite right to demand links and charts in forum replies, and to moderate out offensive comments. He sees the value of focusing on how things are said, rather than just where.




A retail strip that only houses a cafe is doomed to failure. It needs an anchor tennant.


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## wayneL (1 August 2010)

nioka said:


> A retail strip that only houses a cafe is doomed to failure. It needs an anchor tennant.




But do you want Myers or Red Spot?


----------



## Ruby (1 August 2010)

nioka said:


> A retail strip that only houses a cafe is doomed to failure. It needs an anchor tennant.




Noika, I thought Logique drew a good analogy, and your negative comment was unhelpful.

As you are so keen to see more market related posts (and I am sure we would all like that) then perhaps you could get things moving by writing a thought-provoking article every day on a different subject - something that will generate some discussion, or share a particular view you have, or pass on some of your knowledge.  Anything that will encourage people to respond and then perhaps to do the same thing would be good.

I am not being facetious.   If the content of the forum is to be improved then we all need to participate, and sometimes it takes the initiative of one person to shift the mass inertia.


----------



## sam76 (1 August 2010)

Don't like it, don't read it.

no one has a gun to your head


----------



## nioka (1 August 2010)

Ruby said:


> Noika, I thought Logique drew a good analogy, and your negative comment was unhelpful.
> 
> As you are so keen to see more market related posts (and I am sure we would all like that) then perhaps you could get things moving by writing a thought-provoking article every day on a different subject - something that will generate some discussion, or share a particular view you have, or pass on some of your knowledge.  Anything that will encourage people to respond and then perhaps to do the same thing would be good.
> 
> I am not being facetious.   If the content of the forum is to be improved then we all need to participate, and sometimes it takes the initiative of one person to shift the mass inertia.




Please dont see my comment as negative.I can't imagine why you would see it that way. I agree with Logique's anology but it was only one side of the story. I posted another. Stocks are the anchor tennant on ASF.

As for getting things moving... This subject has generated more discussion than any other topic in recent times including Rudd, Abbott and Gillard.

 As for stocks, I post my fair share on them. Actually started the AUT stock thread years ago and it is getting more attention here than any other. LYC is another of my pet stocks, I started that thread. I have always shared my knowledge as will be seen on a lot of the stock threads, particularly in swap trading AUT,ADI and EKA. I have two projects going  at this stage that get my updates. "turning $5,000 into $50,000 in 2 years" and "investing $1500. is it worthwhile". Check them out.


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## Ruby (1 August 2010)

nioka said:


> Please dont see my comment as negative.




OK, I won't then. No offence meant.



nioka said:


> As for stocks, I post my fair share on them. Actually started the AUT stock thread years ago and it is getting more attention here than any other. LYC is another of my pet stocks, I started that thread. I have always shared my knowledge as will be seen on a lot of the stock threads, particularly in swap trading AUT,ADI and EKA. I have two projects going  at this stage that get my updates. "turning $5,000 into $50,000 in 2 years" and "investing $1500. is it worthwhile". Check them out.




In that case, I am happy to give credit where it is due.  My attention has not been drawn to those threads, but that is not negating them.  

To put it another way, it is up to those who wish to see more market-related threads to take it upon themselves to re-invigorate the forum, and the more quality threads that appear, the more others will be encouraged to participate.  Also, if there were fewer put-downs (and I am not pointing the finger anywhere) people might be less reticent.


----------



## Julia (1 August 2010)

sam76 said:


> Don't like it, don't read it.
> 
> no one has a gun to your head



Yes, it seems so simple, doesn't it.



nioka said:


> As for getting things moving... This subject has generated more discussion than any other topic in recent times including Rudd, Abbott and Gillard.



I agree.  This thread has generated a large volume of posts.  It has also effectively killed any interesting threads and intelligent political observations  in general chat.  It has also generated posts so abusive that they have been removed.

Just one question, Nioka, you have made several references to how much better the stock posts are at HotCopper.  I can't help wondering why you don't just stick with that site if it's so superior to ASF?



> As for stocks, I post my fair share on them. Actually started the AUT stock thread years ago and it is getting more attention here than any other. LYC is another of my pet stocks, I started that thread. I have always shared my knowledge as will be seen on a lot of the stock threads, particularly in swap trading AUT,ADI and EKA. I have two projects going  at this stage that get my updates. "turning $5,000 into $50,000 in 2 years" and "investing $1500. is it worthwhile". Check them out.




That's a very fair comment.  You do post in some detail about what you are doing and the rationale behind it.  But it doesn't necessarily follow that others are going to be interested in doing similarly.


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## nioka (1 August 2010)

Julia said:


> Just one question, Nioka, you have made several references to how much better the stock posts are at HotCopper.  I can't help wondering why you don't just stick with that site if it's so superior to ASF?.




You assume Hot copper. I cant remember naming the "other" forum. If I did it was another mistake as I don't believe in giving the opposition a free add. Why dont I stick to the "other" forum ?. Not sure if I have an answer but if there is one it is probably that I am an Aussie that sticks up for someone not getting a fair go. I dont believe that Joe and his baby , ASF, were getting a fair go. Probably why I read the labels and try and buy Australian made. 

I'm not satisfied that having general chat seperated is a good idea. I just wanted to see more stock posts and did /do not want any seperation. ( Joe if you are listening, it may be time to reconsider that arrangement as it seems to be causing some division in members and not just in posts)


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## Calliope (1 August 2010)

nioka said:


> I am an Aussie that sticks up for someone not getting a fair go. I dont believe that Joe and his baby , ASF, were getting a fair go.




And that is the fault of whom? Could it be those dreadful general chat posters who are impeding everyone but you from posting quality stock advice?  Fair go? 

Fair suck of the sauce bottle.


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## nioka (1 August 2010)

Calliope said:


> And that is the fault of whom? Could it be those dreadful general chat posters who are impeding everyone but you from posting quality stock advice?  Fair go?
> 
> Fair suck of the sauce bottle.




We evidently have different brands of sauce. 

Tell me if I have EVER wanted to get rid of general chat posts. Show me where I said that. I partake in them as you well know. All I ask for is more stock posts for I am SURE that this forum would not last unless the stock forum side improved. I never suggested less chat threads although there are more rubbish posts there than could be the case with stock posts with the rules on posting re stocks. Fair go.. I am not pointing blame. I am stating fact as I see it.


----------



## Calliope (1 August 2010)

nioka said:


> ... there are more rubbish posts there than could be the case with stock posts with the rules on posting re stocks.




I agree. I think that rubbish threads should be nipped in the bud before they can get off the ground, in an adult forum like ASF.


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## nunthewiser (1 August 2010)

This is from another forum  

do we really want this sort of crap here just in the name of creating more posts on stocks?



> Traders are starting to get a wiff SUR with good support in the sp of late and some strong buying , not much research needed as it's a Company Maker and holding 50 %.





I see where you are coming from re stock posts but geez the only reason the "other" forum got so many is because crap like this is allowed to be posted.


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## nulla nulla (1 August 2010)

Maybe all of the posters who think this site needs fixing could nominate a share and then take reponsibility for making a weekly post, under that share, providing the forum members with an up-to-date status report of their share?


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## noirua (4 August 2010)

I find I only post on the stock threads now as I usually only responded to a General thread if it was on the front page. Probably reduced my posts by about 40% - 50%, maybe more.   Badly needs a page 2 for all the recent posts on the non-stock threads, imho. 
If a poster has half-a-dozen stocks and none are doing much, there seems little interest in coming to ASF, imho again.


----------



## explod (4 August 2010)

noirua said:


> I find I only post on the stock threads now as I usually only responded to a General thread if it was on the front page. Probably reduced my posts by about 40% - 50%, maybe more.   Badly needs a page 2 for all the recent posts on the non-stock threads, imho.
> If a poster has half-a-dozen stocks and none are doing much, there seems little interest in coming to ASF, imho again.




Rubbish, how easy it is to flick over to the Chat threads, and my post count has not changed, love it all.

So you not only want your icecream *now* you need us to feed you too.


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## prawn_86 (4 August 2010)

Dont forget, if you simply click 'New Posts' in the menu bar across the top it will list all the posts, both general and stock chat.

It's actually the only list i look at personally, i barely ever use the homepage


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## nioka (4 August 2010)

prawn_86 said:


> Dont forget, if you simply click 'New Posts' in the menu bar across the top it will list all the posts, both general and stock chat.
> 
> It's actually the only list i look at personally, i barely ever use the homepage




 That way you miss the "news headlines" which is a useful tool to get some idea of what may be happening on the market. It is the first thing I look at when I log on.


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## Smurf1976 (4 August 2010)

prawn_86 said:


> Dont forget, if you simply click 'New Posts' in the menu bar across the top it will list all the posts, both general and stock chat.
> 
> It's actually the only list i look at personally, i barely ever use the homepage



Same for me unless I'm looking for info on a specific stock.


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## nunthewiser (4 August 2010)

nioka said:


> That way you miss the "news headlines" which is a useful tool to get some idea of what may be happening on the market. It is the first thing I look at when I log on.




um go to home and then click on new posts after you read the headlines?


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## nioka (4 August 2010)

nunthewiser said:


> um go to home and then click on new posts after you read the headlines?




That is exactly the way I have used this forum for years now.


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## nunthewiser (4 August 2010)

nioka said:


> That is exactly the way I have used this forum for years now.




Yep, not the only one .. get all the bits that way


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## noirua (5 August 2010)

prawn_86 said:


> Dont forget, if you simply click 'New Posts' in the menu bar across the top it will list all the posts, both general and stock chat.
> 
> It's actually the only list i look at personally, i barely ever use the homepage




Thanks for that prawn_86; I didn't realise that small print was live to click-on. Just realised it's in two places.
I visit so many websites and they are all better than one another in a few ways.


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## noirua (16 August 2010)

prawn_86 said:


> Dont forget, if you simply click 'New Posts' in the menu bar across the top it will list all the posts, both general and stock chat.
> 
> It's actually the only list i look at personally, i barely ever use the homepage




Hi prawn_86 et al, Tried the 'New Posts' and it came up 'No new threads to view'. I thought it would show the last 20 posts made. Badly needs, imho, a page two for 'General Posts', just like the 'Home' front page for stocks.
However, maybe everyone else thinks it's great and I'm in a minority of one?


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## nulla nulla (16 August 2010)

The "New posts" will display the new posts since you last looked at this option. If you go to "Quick Links" then "Todays posts" you can look back at everything posted in the last 24 or so hours.

If you "subscribe" to threads that you are interested in following, when you log in, you can open "subscribed threads" and you will have a list of the threads you have registered your interest in with their most recent posts.

This is a good forum in it's present format. As someone said to me, you just have to explore a little (and ask questions of the moderators) and you'll generally find what you're looking for and how to find it.


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## sails (16 August 2010)

nulla nulla said:


> The "New posts" will display the new posts since you last looked at this option. If you go to "Quick Links" then "Todays posts" you can look back at everything posted in the last 24 or so hours....




Noirua, I find Nulla's suggestion above works well especially if I have clicked on "new posts" and then get interrupted before I have read the threads of interest.  It's nice that I can still see what I missed the first time.  I think the old way with a few less mouse clicks was a bit easier for me, but it's really a very small problem in the bigger scheme of things.


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## noirua (18 August 2010)

Re-invigoration is not what is needed really, just slight adjustments and additions to the proven formula.

Perhaps the front page of ASF should have more recent posts on it, not 21 but 100. That's a lot you might say, but one website has 120 and another has 4 pages totaling 360. 
Far more to look at for those who click-on the front page, see nothing of interest and depart.

An easy click-on to an epic 'UXA' for instance, marked 'epic' and not 'search'. Become more International and include DOW 30 stocks and FTSE 100.

A page 2 for 'non-stock' Forums, that is as inviting as the 'Stock Forums' front page.

Many have  differing views to me and are entitled to have them, providing they are disregarded  

My last thoughts on the matter, and the good ship sails on regardless - Good luck


----------



## nioka (13 September 2010)

Mission Accomplished....................


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## trainspotter (13 September 2010)

And now watch all the interesting people leave.      

Where for art thou Julia, Garpal Gumnut, Mr Z, Nunthewiser, etc et al ad infinitum.


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## explod (13 September 2010)

trainspotter said:


> And now watch all the interesting people leave.
> 
> Where for art thou Julia, Garpal Gumnut, Mr Z, Nunthewiser, etc et al ad infinitum.




And some of us less interesting as well.  Probably pleased to see the commo's go anyway.


----------



## Joe Blow (13 September 2010)

trainspotter said:


> And now watch all the interesting people leave.
> 
> Where for art thou Julia, Garpal Gumnut, Mr Z, Nunthewiser, etc et al ad infinitum.




I don't understand why more stock chat has to mean less general chat. 

I'm quite happy to have more of both. 

All everyone has to do is keep posting.


----------



## nioka (13 September 2010)

trainspotter said:


> And now watch all the interesting people leave.
> 
> Where for art thou Julia, Garpal Gumnut, Mr Z, Nunthewiser, etc et al ad infinitum.




You will all be back soon to discuss the coming election. Anyway I find stocks much more interesting than people. Stocks do let you down sometimes but so does the human race.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (13 September 2010)

Joe Blow said:


> I don't understand why more stock chat has to mean less general chat.
> 
> I'm quite happy to have more of both.
> 
> All everyone has to do is keep posting.




I must admit to reading more than posting on ASF from day 1, but Joe mate, the present forum set up is crap, and you have replaced many possessed of verbal diarrhoea with those of a distinctly constipated bent.

gg


----------



## Joe Blow (13 September 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> but Joe mate, the present forum set up is crap




What has changed?  



> and you have replaced many possessed of verbal diarrhoea with those of a distinctly constipated bent.




GG, as long as people conduct themselves in a reasonable way anyone can join and participate in this community. I haven't replaced anyone. People come and go as they please, unless they are shown the door for unreasonable behaviour.


----------



## noirua (13 September 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I must admit to reading more than posting on ASF from day 1, but Joe mate, the present forum set up is crap, and you have replaced many possessed of verbal diarrhoea with those of a distinctly constipated bent.
> 
> gg




Please elucidate the 'crap', 'verbal diarrhea' and 'constipated bent' - thanks


----------



## nunthewiser (13 September 2010)

LOL i havent gone anywhere .....

but i have realised that all those people that are wrong on the internet that i would argue/discuss with ,were seriously interupting my drinking and fornicating time.

so now 

1. drinking and fornication
2. trading
3. arguing with internet wrongdoers.


----------



## Julia (13 September 2010)

nioka said:


> You will all be back soon to discuss the coming election.



What coming election?  Haven't we just concluded one?  Are you anticipating the present arrangement will be so short lived?



> Anyway I find stocks much more interesting than people. Stocks do let you down sometimes but so does the human race.



Yes, obviously you find stocks more interesting than people, so I'm pleased for you that you feel your mission to relegate non-stock threads off the home page has been accomplished.

We used to have some really interesting, genuine and thoughtful exchanges about a variety of subjects in general chat.  Sadly, this is now rare.
 A life just involved with making money seems a bit empty to me.  I've over the years really valued some of the thought-provoking discussions we've had.


----------



## nioka (13 September 2010)

Julia said:


> What coming election?  Haven't we just concluded one?  Are you anticipating the present arrangement will be so short lived?
> 
> 
> Yes, obviously you find stocks more interesting than people, so I'm pleased for you that you feel your mission to relegate non-stock threads off the home page has been accomplished.




Coming election? Do you think this government will last the distance?.

My objective was never to get non stock threads off the front page. I wanted more stock chat. I see a lot lot more stock chat. I haven't seen less general chat.
( apart from the fact that the election is over... Thank goodness)


----------



## Julia (13 September 2010)

Have you considered that if there are more stock threads, this might simply be a reflection of a more positive market environment recently?
Not necessarily a heartfelt wish to accede to your desire.
But hey, I might be absolutely wrong.  Frequently I am.


----------



## Synergy (13 September 2010)

I've haven't read this thread before, but today noticed that things were looking a little better on the forum. I only log in for stock related and technical chat, so had not noticed the lack of general chat on the front page until reading the last few pages in this thread...

So for me the change is a positive one.

Things are certainly quieter around here compared to pre GFC times, but surely a part of that is just a sign of the times? Like the market, activity here is sure to fluctuate.

I would say though, that as a more technical trader, I have found that there is less of real interest to me in recent times. I think this is mostly due to people rather than anything directly forum related though.


----------



## nulla nulla (14 September 2010)

Personally I don't agree with removing general chat from the home page. It only took up one line showing the most recent posting in one of the "General Chat" threads. However, like the rolling of Kevin Rudd, if the numbers men squawk loud enough and often enough they will eventually get their way.




Thanks Trainspotter, I was able to use the above sooner than I expected.


----------



## Ruby (14 September 2010)

Julia said:


> We used to have some really interesting, genuine and thoughtful exchanges about a variety of subjects in general chat.  Sadly, this is now rare.
> A life just involved with making money seems a bit empty to me.  I've over the years really valued some of the thought-provoking discussions we've had.




I have not been a member for nearly as long as some of the other people who have contributed to this thread, so I cannot look back over a long period of time and make comparisons about the quality of discussions, but I wonder if it is just a cyclical thing?  People come and go, have different things going on in their lives, and sometimes there are more things of general interest to discuss than at other times.   Maybe it is just a temporary quiet patch.   There can't be scintillating discussions *all *the time.

It doesn't make a scrap of difference to me whether the general chat is on the front page or not, and I am sure lots of others feel the same.  People will find what interests them.  If a thread attracts my attention and I feel I have something to say, I join in.

As long as members keep posting and standards are adhered to, the cycle will probably swing up again.   If it doesn't it will be because people don't want it to.


----------



## noirua (14 September 2010)

Julia said:


> We used to have some really interesting, genuine and thoughtful exchanges about a variety of subjects in general chat.  Sadly, this is now rare.




Absolutely agree with you Julia. We certainly need a second front page. Sadly no one takes any notice of me at all       :horse:   :aus:


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## nulla nulla (15 September 2010)

noirua said:


> Absolutely agree with you Julia. We certainly need a second front page. Sadly no one takes any notice of me at all       :horse:   :aus:




By extension does that mean we should have a page three as well, complete with lurid photo's of "page three girls"? lol.


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## nioka (15 September 2010)

noirua said:


> Absolutely agree with you Julia. We certainly need a second front page. Sadly no one takes any notice of me at all




Not everything will fit on the front page of the daily newspaper. There are those that think sport should be on the front page of their daily. 

Bear in mind that this is a stock forum. The advertisers are stock related. Do you suggest for one minute that they will continue to support a FREE forum for general chat. It was obvious that the forum had degenerated to being a forum where stock chat was negligible. It was only a matter of time before nobody would have the facilities of ASF as I saw the situation. I can't see your problem. General chat is easy to access. I do it all the time. (after checking out the stocks which by the way have increased dramatically.


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## Mr Z (15 September 2010)

Joe Blow said:


> GG, as long as people conduct themselves in a reasonable way anyone can join and participate in this community. I haven't replaced anyone. People come and go as they please, unless they are shown the door for unreasonable behaviour.




FWIW, you need some grit to produce pearls. PC all the way will kill the place, period, end of story. Aim for controlled kaos... a bar fight with rules, else no one will be challenged in what they believe... everyone agreeing is the most boring thing around and few people can debate properly so somewhat of an argument must be allowed to occur when needs be.


----------



## explod (15 September 2010)

nioka said:


> Not everything will fit on the front page of the daily newspaper. There are those that think sport should be on the front page of their daily.
> 
> Bear in mind that this is a stock forum. The advertisers are stock related. Do you suggest for one minute that they will continue to support a FREE forum for general chat. It was obvious that the forum had degenerated to being a forum where stock chat was negligible. It was only a matter of time before nobody would have the facilities of ASF as I saw the situation. I can't see your problem. General chat is easy to access. I do it all the time. (after checking out the stocks which by the way have increased dramatically.




Agree totally with this post.   

The front page looks much better with our main task, ie. investing to the fore.


----------



## Julia (15 September 2010)

noirua said:


> Absolutely agree with you Julia. We certainly need a second front page. Sadly no one takes any notice of me at all       :horse:   :aus:



My point wasn't at all that I wanted general chat threads back on the home page.  Accessing via Forums is fine with me.

My lament was rather to do with the diminished content of general chat threads, I think largely because - with all the smart ass contributions, put downs, etc by people who don't seem to have any real interest but just enjoy being disruptive or think they're helluva funny - many previous regular posters have just decided not to bother.


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## noirua (16 September 2010)

nioka said:


> Not everything will fit on the front page of the daily newspaper. There are those that think sport should be on the front page of their daily.




Fortunately ASF is not a Daily and the front page can be very long indeed - at least I think it can; maybe from that the answer comes.


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## Wysiwyg (30 October 2017)

Very quiet here like some curse has been cast over ASF. Anyone hearing 'don't post on ASF'?  Over 250 online at this moment yet no one wants to post. I suppose if the guests are from overseas and don't speak english or fear posting then that eliminates most of the potential posts. Relaxing the pump and dump forum rules could increase poster interactions but unfortunately also the disagreement.


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## DaveDaGr8 (31 October 2017)

No, but a lot of the interesting threads over the last year got absolutely railroaded. 3 or 4 times we tried to make a good Python / ML / Quant thread and each time people came in and posted totally off topic and dragged the thread down.

This bullying and bitching has probably stopped people from starting new threads, i know it's stopped me from persuing another thread on this topic or even contributing when i have something to say.

Unfortunately I haven't seen Howard here since and i haven't seen another quant thread recently. This is a growing field and should be discussed, whether you agree with the method or not yet it's not discussed here anymore.

YES it is discussed on other forums


----------



## Parse (31 October 2017)

(Puts crystals, stones and the Book of Shadows to one side) It wasn't me honest! I was trying to divinate the Nov stock pick winner, not lay a curse


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## sptrawler (31 October 2017)

The stock related post aren't prolific, unlike some other forums, but there doesn't seem to be the ramping problem either.
On the stocks I follow, the info is usually good and constructive, the general chat can get somewhat overpowering.


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## Wysiwyg (31 October 2017)

The internet (and life?) is rife with compulsive liars, exaggerators, deception, stealth, misleaders, fire lighters and unsubstantiated claimers. Disagreement stems from these while facts, honesty and explanation are what fosters good communication.


----------



## systematic (31 October 2017)

DaveDaGr8 said:


> No, but a lot of the interesting threads over the last year got absolutely railroaded....
> 
> ...This bullying and bitching has probably stopped people from starting new threads, i know it's stopped me from persuing another thread on this topic or even contributing when i have something to say.




I must admit, this describes me to quite a degree.

I check the home page, probably a couple of times a day still.  But as I'm not into the 'General Chat,' that means I'm not interested in 90%(?) of threads.  I'll open a stock related thread if it seems interesting.  But I think I've started getting so used to not posting / interacting that there are now times where, like you said above, I don't bother contributing as much anymore, even when I have something to say.  

I think my interest took a big drop after that ridiculous thread that I believe was the last that craft posted in.


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## So_Cynical (31 October 2017)

There has been a large shift away from the old forum and message board type of sites, everything now seems to consolidate to one big player leaving just a small space for others.


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## Wysiwyg (31 October 2017)

Good point. The social media site uptake may have overtaken the forum communication method.


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## gordon2007 (31 October 2017)

To me, this is hardly a stock forum at all. It's more a place where people who have an interest in the stock market come to have a moan and groan about everyday life, with the occasional banter of a company and what their value should be. 

Yes, other forums may use language of a pump & dump, but at least there is a consistency of stock market chatter as opposed to here where it is mostly conversations of one's personal views on general life with the odd bit of share news thrown in. 

This site to me, is now the equivalent of going to a cooking forum, where all the members of said forum enjoy cooking, but instead of everyone sharing recipes, everyone is too busy talking about sports and the government. 

Bit of a shame really, but hey, the only constant in life is change. Some things change for the better, some not so much. 

Cheers.
Gordon


----------



## McLovin (31 October 2017)

ASF is not much more than the general chat forum these days. Most of the posters who I used to interact with in the "S" part of ASF have stopped posting, which means I've stopped checking in all that regularly. It's a shame, this place used to be great and had some fantastic posters, now it's more like the comments section of a tabloid newspaper. That seems to have been a conscious decision, so I guess it's worked well. Unfortunately, the decline in the stock chat seems to have hit terminal decline now.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (31 October 2017)

HC has the market cornered on stock commentary.

Maybe ASF could carve its niche by focusing on systems, technical analysis and trade diaries, regardless of instrument.


----------



## gordon2007 (31 October 2017)

Gringotts Bank said:


> HC has the market cornered on stock commentary.




Too true. Whether Joe, other admins and the general population on here want to admit it or not, hotcopper has won this battle. This site is a victim of what they opposed the most, endless ramping with no substance, except in this case the ramping was about this forum. The admins here stopped ramping of posts about shares, but were more than too happy to let endless ramps of how good this site was continue unabashedly. Far too often I saw post after post bagging other forums whilst pumping this site up for no other reason than to feel good about themselves without offering any solid ideas on how to improve this forum. 

Short term fixes may have won the ratings in 2007, but a lack of foresight and not believing in the credibility of other forums may have doomed this site. 

One could hope for a rebound for asf, but I don't see it happen.

Regards,
Gordon


----------



## Wysiwyg (31 October 2017)

Gringotts Bank said:


> HC has the market cornered on stock commentary.



For 10 years I refused to join HC due to the mindless ramping, narkiness and personal attacks I read as a guest. I joined this year and my third post about a particular stock I received a good spray from some turkey. Being unsurprised nowadays they make me laugh and I replied politely asserting that I will post my piece on whatever stock I choose.  


> Maybe ASF could carve its niche by focusing on systems, technical analysis and trade diaries, regardless of instrument.



I am okay with personal trade (minus account details of course) diaries but if someone has unique systems and T.A. like quants should be developing these days they are probably not going to reveal it on the internet. Everyone is looking for an edge and why would you give away one that has taken countless hours and money to create.


----------



## tech/a (31 October 2017)

What do you want out of a Stock site that ASF doesn't give?
What does Hot copper give that ASF doesn't?


----------



## PZ99 (31 October 2017)

^Nothing. Last time I checked hotcopper has more political fanbois than ASF. 

Can't really compare ASF with hotcopper. Unlike ASF, hotcopper isn't a community. It's an ASX listed company with a prime directive to make profits. ASF is not.


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## McLovin (31 October 2017)

Wysiwyg said:


> For 10 years I refused to join HC due to the mindless ramping, narkiness and personal attacks I read as a guest. I joined this year and my third post about a particular stock I received a good spray from some turkey. Being unsurprised nowadays they make me laugh and I replied politely asserting that I will post my piece on whatever stock I choose.




HC has some reasonable posters, but they get drowned out by the type of cr@p you mention. Most of the time it's just a circle jerk of holders talking to themselves about how many boats they're going to buy when bots/shorters/downrampers etc stop manipulating the stock price. The quality of post is about the same as five day old fish.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (31 October 2017)

tech/a said:


> What do you want out of a Stock site that ASF doesn't give?
> What does Hot copper give that ASF doesn't?




I'd never trade a speccy without checking HC.  Due to the numbers, there will always be someone who has flagged an upcoming capital raising, for example.

Popularity.  I don't know how you create that.  Some restaurants are full, others are empty.  Sometimes it's the food, sometimes the staff, sometimes the vibe/decor/location, sometimes it just happens.

My guess:  Admin should look at the popular threads because that tells you what people want to view.  If everyone is buying your soufle and no one is buying the roast, then you focus on providing a good soufle to stay afloat, right?  You also have to look at who's complaining, because they may want something that is not worth your time providing.  Want a roast?  Go to 'Roasts Are Us'.  Or vice versa for soufle.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (31 October 2017)

Having said that, if business success was easy, everyone would do it.  

Knowing what sort of service you want to provide, and knowing what people want to use, then creating the overlap.  Sounds easy!


----------



## gordon2007 (31 October 2017)

tech/a said:


> What do you want out of a Stock site that ASF doesn't give? What does Hot copper give that ASF doesn't?




Hi Tech, 
I understand you question. But I don't have the answers. I'm not here barracking for hc, I've never even posted on there. In fact I wouldn't even call myself an active  member on this forum any more either.
I just happened to see this post and it intrigued me enough to put up an answer.

I can only comment on the facts, and the fact is hc is now the most predominant forum for shares. Membership there is rising, and whilst I don't really know the facts for this forum, it certainly appears to be a bit stagnant. Hence, this thread on how to reinvigorate this forum. 

Perhaps look at this way, maybe Joe and the likes are great at investing and very clever people. But, maybe they don't fully understand the new age of social media. And social media, whether we want to admit it or not, is the way of the future.

I still believe this site, when there is talk about particular shares, provides more advanced and informative discussions. But, sadly, there is not a lot of talk about shares on here any more. Which again, is why this particular thread was created. 

Maybe it's not good enough to ask people on here what they want, perhaps that is akin to preaching to the choir. If Joe is happy with the way this site is currently, then why change? But, if he wants it to move forward and gain membership, then maybe hiring a specialist in social media may be a way to help get a better grasp of how to move this forum forward so it's more appealing and to gain new membership.

Hope this hopes.


----------



## Wysiwyg (31 October 2017)

> forum
> ˈfɔːrəm/
> _noun_
> noun: *forum*; plural noun: *forums*; plural noun: *fora
> ...



Ideas, views and information. There is less disagreement when information alone is shared.


----------



## systematic (31 October 2017)

I'll ask this one, because it'll be helpful to Joe as well.

"Do *any* of you guys belong to a stock market related facebook group?"

I'm an old fella in internet years, so I still like forums.  But I recently visited a health forum I used to frequent, and found that they are now all interacting on the website's facebook group.

The demographics of stock market investing are always an older crowd, and just wondered how many of you belong to a stock market related facebook group?  I don't.


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## Logique (31 October 2017)

I don't think it's about comparing the delivery vehicle or method , whether ASF, HC, Facebook or a forum.

It's just a different kind of stock market now, and peopled by more sophisticated and less gullible investors.  If there's less stock content these days on ASF, the quality of the contributions has skyrocketed.

In earlier times, we collectively ran from motor home builders to uranium miners, to Coal Seam Methane, to rare earths, to gold stocks and iron ore - and plenty of speculators got burnt and won't be back.

I don't like Hot Copper, and I wouldn't go anywhere near a Facebook stock forum.

I do not mind for one minute the General Chat threads, and constantly marvel at Joe's tolerance of them.


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## tech/a (31 October 2017)

Hi Gordon
Been a while 

What would get you back to posting
Your one of the best chartists I know.

I really like your idea re the expert
I have just employed a marketing business builder
She is a masters graduate and been with two major networks in Adelaide

I’ve given her complete access
WOW
Two weeks in and I’m seeing huge potential 
Small % on big numbers really boost the bottom line.

But even more 
Perhaps the members need to feel more well a member
Appreciated 
Without them what is there

If there is one thing I’ve found in 35 yrs of business
Find experts and take advantage of their expertise 
Can be life changing


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## UMike (1 November 2017)

systematic said:


> I must admit, this describes me to quite a degree.
> 
> I check the home page, probably a couple of times a day still.  But as I'm not into the 'General Chat,' that means I'm not interested in 90%(?) of threads.  I'll open a stock related thread if it seems interesting.  But I think I've started getting so used to not posting / interacting that there are now times where, like you said above, I don't bother contributing as much anymore, even when I have something to say.....



 Same here.
Although I don't so much read the squabbles much.

I like the on the topic based discussions here and ramp free environment.


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## UMike (1 November 2017)

McLovin said:


> HC has some reasonable posters, but they get drowned out by the type of cr@p you mention. ....



Why can't we get them to post here then?


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## Joe Blow (20 October 2018)

luutzu said:


> First we got whinging cuthroat traders not liking whining general discussion whiners but somewhat tolerate them.




It's gone beyond whinging to a very real exodus I'm afraid. Either ASF gets its stock market focus back or this place is history. I'm not joking. We are well and truly at the tipping point.


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## Darc Knight (20 October 2018)

I'm guessing you can't temporarily stop posts in the General Chat section or you would've done that.
I'm gonna put General Chat on ignore, hopefully that'll stop me contributing to the problem.


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## luutzu (20 October 2018)

Joe Blow said:


> It's gone beyond whinging to a very real exodus I'm afraid. Either ASF gets its stock market focus back or this place is history. I'm not joking. We are well and truly at the tipping point.




Sorry to hear that Joe.

This is a great site. I don't really have any great ideas beyond what you and other members have suggested. 

One thing I noticed on Hotcopper a while back is that they purchase corporate announcements and generate that as a separate thread. 

I guess that keep the company pages fresh. Member usually read the announcements and some might comment on its impact.


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## Joe Blow (20 October 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> I'm guessing you can't temporarily stop posts in the General Chat section or you would've done that.




No, I can close entire forums very easily. I was just hoping for a situation where we could keep General Chat but it would represent maybe 25-30% of all posts instead of 60%. I've dropped a lot of hints and made requests, but it seems that hasn't had any real impact. It's quite clear that most people here would rather talk about politics and religion than stocks, trading and investing.

Perhaps it is time to close down the General Chat forum? I don't think people are going to voluntarily start posting more in other forums, so in the end my hand may be forced.


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## moXJO (20 October 2018)

Joe Blow said:


> Perhaps it is time to close down the General Chat forum? I don't think people are going to voluntarily start posting more in other forums, so in the end my hand may be forced.



Shut it down joe. 

This is a stock forum first. And its obvious this isn't getting resolved unless general is silenced and offending views tossed.


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## SirRumpole (20 October 2018)

It's your site Joe and you can do what you want but the assumption seems to be that "investment" people are driven away by General Chat. Do you personally believe that is the case ? My belief is that GC has kept the site going in the face of a general decline of interest in the investment side of it, maybe because of the GFC, or that property is a better form of investment or the rise of passive investment via index funds and/or superannuation .

But if you really think that GC is detracting from the site, then by all means delete it. As a passive investor myself with little interest in trading I won't be hanging around.  An option is to move GC into the Members Only area so that the seemingly hundreds of hangers on (Guests) don't get distracted by off topic discussions, and to remove all GC posts from the Recent Posts lists.

The only other suggestion I have is to widen the appeal of the site by trying to attract the small business community or property investors.


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## Darc Knight (20 October 2018)

I consider @SirRumpole a pretty good Bloke and hope he does stick around or at least come back if GC is reinstated but I feel a temporary suspension of General Chat maybe needed by the sounds of it.
ASF survival looks to be at stake.


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## Tisme (20 October 2018)

Well if Tick Tock and his cobbers are leaving because of me, I'm prepared to go post AWOL. There you go no more excuses. Joe you can even send them a pls comeback on the back of it. Enjoy yourselves.


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## Joe Blow (20 October 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> It's your site Joe and you can do what you want but the assumption seems to be that "investment" people are driven away by General Chat. Do you personally believe that is the case ?




I've always been a supporter of General Chat, but the problem is that the balance is currently way out. ASF looks like a General Chat forum with a handful of people posting about stocks, trading or investing. That's the reality and should be pretty clear to everyone irrespective of what they think of the General Chat forum. Around 60% of forum posts are made in General Chat at the moment at the moment when ideally it should be about half that. I think this may turn off many who arrive here looking for stock market related chat.

I also think that political and religious discussion can create a toxic atmosphere. While the discussion here is generally at a high level, political debate does tend to whip up an almost religious fervor in some. We live in a world with a black and white political landscape now moreso than at any time I can remember and there can be a lot of incivility, labelling and personal attacks in political threads. People get fired up and sparks fly. It would be nice to see a little less hostility and a little more civility. Someone with different political views isn't an infidel, they're just someone whose life experience has led them to a different philosophical place.



SirRumpole said:


> My belief is that GC has kept the site going in the face of a general decline of interest in the investment side of it, maybe because of the GFC, or that property is a better form of investment or the rise of passive investment via index funds or superannuation .




It's done more than keep it alive, it's taken over. I agree with you that it has kept the forum active but at the same time it's also taken the focus away.

This is not necessarily a black and white issue. It's not all or nothing. There can be change in the right direction and a slow incremental move back to a focus on stock market, trading and investment related discussion. But I'm just not sure that it's something that people are going to do voluntarily. My sense is that people are taking a "It's my way or the highway" approach to this issue and I think that's unnecessary. No need for anyone to take their bat and ball and go home.

I've never wanted to chase anyone away, alienate anyone, or disappoint anyone, but it seems that I've inadvertently done all three. Whether I like it or not, I'm simply a politician here and my policies (or lack of them) are going to be attacked. My vision for ASF was and remains an intelligent stock market community with a healthy General Chat section.



SirRumpole said:


> But if you really think that GC is detracting from the site, then by all means delete it. As a passive investor myself with little interest in trading I won't be hanging around.  An option is to move GC into the Members Only area so that the seemingly hundreds of hangers on (Guests) don't get distracted by off topic discussions.
> 
> The only other suggestion I have is to widen the appeal of the site by trying to attract the small business community or property investors.




People are quite welcome to discuss these topics in the General Investment and Economics forum, which I might rename soon to Business, Investment and Economics to broaden it a little.

All I really want is for the balance to be returned to the way it needs to be. I don't want anyone to leave, I want more to arrive and stay, but ASF needs to be a stock market forum first and a general chat forum second.

I realise this thread has gone way off topic, but I'll move all these posts out of here and into another thread later tonight.


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## SirRumpole (20 October 2018)

You are a decent bloke Joe and whatever you do I hope it works for you.


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## PZ99 (20 October 2018)

Ahh bugger - this again. OK. Just one suggestion.

Open General Chat only when the ASX is closed


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## greggles (20 October 2018)

Or maybe we could all just try posting more in stock threads, trading threads, investing threads and economics threads?

That way, we can all stop talking about it because the problem will be fixed. This place is a community. If there's a problem that needs to be fixed, it's up to the members of the community to fix it. 

I'm sure everyone has five minutes a day to help out and post a little more in some stock market related threads.


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## SirRumpole (20 October 2018)

greggles said:


> Or maybe we could all just try posting more in stock threads, trading threads, investing threads and economics threads?




Fair enough, but economics is mostly about politics, so does that break the rules ?


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## greggles (20 October 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Fair enough, but economics is mostly about politics, so does that break the rules ?




If politics comes into it, fair enough. But start the thread in the economics forum and make the discussion about economics.


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## Smurf1976 (20 October 2018)

I have some thoughts for relevant threads / posts and will post them (the actual content that is) in a day or two.

US and other major market cycles and timing is the subject, that being the basis of my own investing with individual stock picking a secondary consideration.

I don’t know if there’s much interest in that sort of thing here. Only one way to find out.....


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## barney (20 October 2018)

​


greggles said:


> *I'm sure everyone has five minutes a day to help out and post a little more in some stock market related threads. *​



​​Exactly … I'm sure most of the long time Members are genuinely interested in preserving this site …. As you have shown Greg, it doesn't take too much effort to post about Stocks you either own or are interested in.​​I'm sure for example a lot of the longer term investors here own BHP (I don't but wish I did!) Just a simple cut and paste of the important News on a regular basis would give the thread some life with minimal effort.​​It might surprise everyone that BHP has had just one post in the last five months and that was from @greggles ​​If we truly want to see more traffic and interest in the Site particularly from new Visitors who are looking for a reason to stay, as Members we need to have a bit more input … and I include myself in that suggestion.​​


SirRumpole said:


> Fair enough, but economics is mostly about politics, so does that break the rules ?




Rumpy, you are an excellent poster and its nothing to do with rules ….. As Joe has stated, he needs the Site to be more trading orientated to survive. Like many I'm sure you have a few old favorite Stocks that you've made a squillion dollars out of over the years which you could give a regular update on


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## barney (20 October 2018)

Just a quick follow up ……….. I'm wondering whether its just me or do others also think that the Site would be better served by the Home Page actually being the Forum Page?

Personally I'd much rather see the Stocks A-Z and all the Trading Threads as the first thing I see when I log on ….

Now obviously I can simply set that page up to load because I'm familiar with the site etc etc … but any new visitors searching the net will likely see the page below which to me does not scream "Trading" … thoughts??


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## barney (20 October 2018)

I would much rather see this page which entices the User to have a search around without even knowing the Site.

Obviously there could be additions and changes to make it more of a Home Page, but this Page is way more inviting to a Visitor interested in Trading.


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## SirRumpole (21 October 2018)

Smurf1976 said:


> I have some thoughts for relevant threads / posts and will post them (the actual content that is) in a day or two.
> 
> US and other major market cycles and timing is the subject, that being the basis of my own investing with individual stock picking a secondary consideration.
> 
> I don’t know if there’s much interest in that sort of thing here. Only one way to find out.....




I'm looking forward to that Smurf.

I'm quite attracted to your macro approach to investing as it gives time to do other things instead of hanging around a screen every day worrying about micro ups and downs.


----------



## Country Lad (21 October 2018)

About to board ship for a 27 day cruise with very little internet so rhis is a quick off the cuff thought.
Every time I look there are massively more "guests" than members on line.  Particularly puzzling at the moment are 6 members and 390 guests on line.  Only 6 members is logical as it is before 6am your time, but 390 guests at 6am?
Every time I have looked over the years there are always hundreds of guests who obviously have a free ride and do not contribute. I would suggest that guests be severely restricted in what they can see - they are not contributing anyway so force a case of join to see more than a snippet of the discussions here or bugger off. Maybe then more will join and possibly contribute. If not, nothing lost.


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## notting (21 October 2018)

*Someone in admin* should step up and start posting daily about the big movers of the day.
Like the top and bottom 5.  Do it at 11:30 am
Make some comments about them if you have an opinion, ask people what is going on if you don't have an opinion. Get the conversation going.
Also at the end of the week look for 5 stocks that made big moves up and down and do the same for weekend discussion.
First of all this will actually help people notice where some action is but is also where people will feel more compelled to say something as it tends to get the emotions etc going.
Look at how the great stock sights like CNBC, Bloomberg get your attention with headlines.
You need to do more than just sit back and expect everyone else to do everything!!!
The other thing to remember is that the site usage peaks during volatility and we haven't had that for a bout 10 years so that's probably contributing to the apathy too.


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## Logique (21 October 2018)

Just a suggestion, the General Chat forum is very discursive. What about curating it back to a more limited range of threads, as judged financially/economically relevant.

It would mean a few favourite threads would go, but that's the sacrifice you make.

I don't think the baby needs to be thrown out with the bath water


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## greggles (21 October 2018)

Everyone (except Smurf) is dancing around the real point. Yes, the website design needs some work. Perhaps other changes need to be made as well in terms of functionality. But that won't solve the problem. It's just window dressing.

The problem will only be solved when people post less in general chat and more in threads in the other forums, especially stock threads. It really is that simple.

This is not a problem government (admin) can solve. It needs to be solved by the people and can be solved literally overnight.


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## SirRumpole (21 October 2018)

greggles said:


> Everyone (except Smurf) is dancing around the real point. Yes, the website design needs some work. Perhaps other changes need to be made as well in terms of functionality. But that won't solve the problem. It's just window dressing.
> 
> The problem will only be solved when people post less in general chat and more in threads in the other forums, especially stock threads. It really is that simple.
> 
> This is not a problem government (admin) can solve. It needs to be solved by the people and can be solved literally overnight.





Maybe there just isn't the critical mass of those 

a. interested in the stock market
b. knowledgeble enough for their opinions to mean anything and
c. willing to share their knowledge and risk that their strategies will be undermined by the sharing of that    knowledge.

From a marketing viewpoint, if a business is to succeed  it has to have an advantage over the competition.

What are this site's selling points over the others in it's area ?

How can these be advertised to a wider audience than the current members ?


----------



## greggles (21 October 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Maybe there just isn't the critical mass of those
> 
> a. interested in the stock market




I don't understand why someone who wasn't interested in the stock market would be here. It's a stock market forum. 



SirRumpole said:


> b. knowledgeble enough for their opinions to mean anything and




I haven't seen anyone here who isn't capable of posting an intelligent comment or question.



SirRumpole said:


> c. willing to share their knowledge and risk that their strategies will be undermined by the sharing of that knowledge.




I don't think this is really an issue. 



SirRumpole said:


> From a marketing viewpoint, if a business is to succeed it has to have an advantage over the competition.
> 
> What are this site's selling points over the others in it's area ?
> 
> How can these be advertised to a wider audience than the current members ?




I'm not a bells and whistles guy. I'm happy with a forum that is easy enough to navigate and has features that make posting easy. I'd like to see some design changes here and there and will probably make some suggestions but it's not a deal breaker.

I'm interested in content and reading what others post. Isn't that why we're all here? Not to hear the sound of our our voices but to read the views of others and engage in discussions?


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## SirRumpole (21 October 2018)

Personally I'm interested in investing (who isn't) , but not so much in day to day trading of individual stocks.

I've learned a lot reading the investment posts but I haven't the knowledge to argue the point with anyone over the stock market.

Maybe that is the same for all the guests that seem to hang around here not posting, although we don't know how many are humans and how many are web bots.



greggles said:


> I haven't seen anyone here who isn't capable of posting an intelligent comment or question.




Correct, but it's not the people who post that are the problem, it's the ones who don't.



greggles said:


> I'm interested in content and reading what others post. Isn't that why we're all here? Not to hear the sound of our our voices but to read the views of others and engage in discussions?




Of course it is, but that could apply to a lot of issues not related to the stock market.


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## greggles (21 October 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Personally I'm interested in investing (who isn't) , but not so much in day to day trading of individual stocks.




Sounds like the Medium/Long Term Investing forum and the Business, Investment and Economics forum (I notice the name has been changed) would be the two other forums of interest to you then.



SirRumpole said:


> I've learned a lot reading the investment posts but I haven't the knowledge to argue the point with anyone over the stock market.
> 
> Maybe that is the same for all the guests that seem to hang around here not posting, although we don't know how many are humans and how many are web bots.




You're clearly an intelligent and thoughtful person SirR. I'm sure whatever you contributed to a discussion would be worth reading.



SirRumpole said:


> Correct, but it's not the people who post that are the problem, it's the ones who don't.




I have to agree with you there. To those who visit but don't post, please consider participating in the discussions. We'd all like to hear what you have to say.


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## tech/a (21 October 2018)

There is a plethora of improvements that could be introduced to ASF
I’m sure Joe has a Wishlist 
The big issue is not having the capital to invest in ASF.

Tweeks aren’t going to cut it.
If nothing changes then——
Nothing changes.

To lead in any field you need to deliver the best your competition
Can offer up and then introduce an individualality unique to you.


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## barney (21 October 2018)

greggles said:


> Everyone (except Smurf) is dancing around the real point. Yes, the website design needs some work. Perhaps other changes need to be made as well in terms of functionality. But that won't solve the problem. It's just window dressing.
> 
> The problem will only be solved when people post less in general chat and more in threads in the other forums, especially stock threads. It really is that simple.
> 
> This is not a problem government (admin) can solve. It needs to be solved by the people and can be solved literally overnight.




You make a lot of good points re posting etc Greg and I have hit the "like" button to reflect that ...… 

I don't pretend to know how to solve the problems being spoken about but I do believe it is multi levelled. ie. More posting by current members is important for sure, but we continually need fresh blood to join and get involved because there is often a high attrition rate with traders and once someone has failed at something they generally don't continue on. Somehow Visitors need to be converted to contributing posters. How do we achieve this?  

A simple suggestion off the top of my ever aging head …. Apart from the Home Page suggestion I posted above (which I think is a lot more important than we may think) ….. 

New Visitors/browsers can only enter the Site proper via a "gateway" thread (eg "Visitors Enter Here")where they must create a username and answer some non threatening Trading questions to give an overview of their Trading interests ….. ie. Your interests are: Blue Chips:Mid Caps:Specs:Investingay Trading:Futures:Forex: etc etc etc.   A return post of Welcome from the site and members etc etc would create a sense of community right from the initial contact 

Visitors that don't sign up were not likely to hang around or contribute anyway so no real loss.

Visitors that do sign up have now made a commitment of membership and given some feedback on their interests which should be valuable information for @Joe Blow to fine tune the site layout etc 

I remember when I first joined the Site a million years ago I was very hesitant to post anything. I think the above suggestion would eliminate a lot of the hesitancy from potential new members and make them immediately more likely to get involved on the threads … win win …….


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## andymac (21 October 2018)

ok guys- new members point of view (relatively), barney and greg are on the right track, i have hung around this site for years without ever signing up, cause i could just peruse and pick up a bit of info now and then. didn't bother me that i couldn't post, didn't really want to. in the end i did sign up just because i wanted to thank pete2 for a collection of posts that i found really useful. once i was signed up and could post i find that i do now and then , not really up to speed with the etiquette etc etc, but will learn as i see and do more.
GC threads, am not really interested but get a laugh now and then BUT they have absolutely no bearing on my experience here, does not matter. so why change them?  the only issue is volume (lack) of stock related posts.
need more members and more members posting .


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## So_Cynical (21 October 2018)

notting said:


> *Someone in admin* should step up and start posting daily about the big movers of the day.




A bot pretending to be a person is needed, someone/thing to stimulate discussion, a bot asking questions...


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## greggles (21 October 2018)

tech/a said:


> There is a plethora of improvements that could be introduced to ASF
> I’m sure Joe has a Wishlist
> The big issue is not having the capital to invest in ASF.
> 
> ...




HC just changed its design and a lot of the members over there are extremely unhappy with the changes made. There seems to be no consensus about what changes are required here. What would make this website better? Ask 100 people and you'll get 100 different answers. Make changes and half will like them and half will hate them. There are no guarantees that "improvements" will make things better.

There are almost a million posts here and we got there without too many bells and whistles and unnecessary features. This is a content based website, if the content is here people will come here. In my opinion it's all about the atmosphere. Be helpful, be friendly and welcoming, and post useful, meaningful content. That alone will attract new people and get them involved.



barney said:


> I don't pretend to know how to solve the problems being spoken about but I do believe it is multi levelled. ie. More posting by current members is important for sure, but we continually need fresh blood to join and get involved because there is often a high attrition rate with traders and once someone has failed at something they generally don't continue on. Somehow Visitors need to be converted to contributing posters. How do we achieve this?




My view is by new and established members continuing to post. People are drawn in by the content, not bells and whistles although I think design and functionality is important and can be improved.



barney said:


> A simple suggestion off the top of my ever aging head …. Apart from the Home Page suggestion I posted above (which I think is a lot more important than we may think) …..




I think the Home Page idea is a good one. I think that does need some work to make it more appealing. I can see that the current page is intended to provide a mix of market news, market data and forum content to visitors, but I think it can be improved to make it more user friendly.

I like seeing market news, data and forex rates too. It's nice to have a range of financial information in the one place.



barney said:


> New Visitors/browsers can only enter the Site proper via a "gateway" thread (eg "Visitors Enter Here")where they must create a username and answer some non threatening Trading questions to give an overview of their Trading interests ….. ie. Your interests are: Blue Chips:Mid Caps:Specs:Investingay Trading:Futures:Forex: etc etc etc.   A return post of Welcome from the site and members etc etc would create a sense of community right from the initial contact
> 
> Visitors that don't sign up were not likely to hang around or contribute anyway so no real loss.
> 
> Visitors that do sign up have now made a commitment of membership and given some feedback on their interests which should be valuable information for @Joe Blow to fine tune the site layout etc




A worthwhile suggestion barney. I'm not sure how difficult it would be for admin to implement though. Some food for thought for sure.

It seems that some people are leaving ASF or refraining from posting because they can't get their own way. That seems a little selfish to me. It costs people nothing to be a part of this community. My policy is, if you want to see change then be the change that you want to see. If you want to see more stock chat, post more in those threads. If you want the site to be more friendly and welcoming, then be more friendly and welcoming to both newcomers and established members.

We live in a very selfish, superficial world these days. A little selflessness goes a long way. In the words of Mick Jagger, "You can't always get want you want, but if you try sometimes you might find, you get what you need."


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## SirRumpole (21 October 2018)

The site has 46,000 members according to the Forums page.

I wonder if it's possible to do an automated survey as to why only about less than 100 still continue to post, whether they use other sites, are out of the market altogether or just want to enjoy the fruits of their success, and what those who are left want from the site.

You might then get an idea of where the site is heading and whether its worth continuing or not.


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## Joe Blow (21 October 2018)

Thank you all for the feedback. I accept that changes need to be made and that ASF needs to be improved.

As @barney, @greggles, @bellenuit and others have pointed out the Home Page needs some work. I have taken this feedback on board and will be using the suggestions made to make it more user friendly when it is time for the next website redesign.

Around 12 months ago a new version of this forum software was released that was completely reworked from the ground up. The initial release of the new version was intended only to have the same features and functionality as this version. In the next few weeks the 2.1 version is due to be released with a dozen or so new features. I intend to upgrade ASF to this version once most of the bugs have been ironed out, which I anticipate will take about six months.

There will be no real changes to ASF between now and then so all available resources can be devoted to the next major upgrade and website redesign. I will continue to collate all feedback and suggestions made by members and do my best to integrate them into the next redesign.



SirRumpole said:


> I wonder if it's possible to do an automated survey as to why only about less than 100 still continue to post, whether they use other sites, are out of the market altogether or just want to enjoy the fruits of their success, and what those who are left want from the site.




More than 1,000 people visit ASF each weekday. Many of those are unregistered. Of those who are registered, only a small percentage post regularly. I would be interested in hearing from those who are registered and who visit regularly but do not post. I'd like to know why.

Those who have left have left for a variety of reasons. For some, it's because they are no longer active in the market, other reasons are the dominance of the General Chat forum, the overall decline in activity, the increase in passive investing, and the rise of other discussion platforms such as Facebook Groups. I'm sure there are almost as many reasons as there are former members.

To those who would like to continue to support ASF I have the following suggestions:

1. Keep posting, especially in threads on stocks, trading, investing, and economics. This is the most important thing. A further decline in activity will only serve to worsen the situation. An increase in activity, especially in threads on stocks, trading, investing, and economics will most definitely assist. To those who visit but do not post, please consider getting involved in the discussions and debates. The more the merrier.

2. Encourage and assist others, especially newcomers. There was the suggestion above that atmosphere is a big factor in attracting newcomers to an online community. I happen to agree. In my opinion nothing is worth more than a friendly, positive, constructive atmosphere where people help each other where they can.

3. Link to ASF from other blogs, websites and social media. Half the battle is getting people to find us. Google and search engines do some of that work, but more can always be done. Link to the website generally or individual threads. It doesn't really matter. A link is a link. You have probably seen the social media share buttons:




To those who use social media, please share or tweet links to ASF or content contained within. There are social media sharing buttons in every thread and on every page.

4. "Like" other's posts if you have found the content useful or helpful. This lets other forum members know that the content they are posting is useful to others and is a great way to encourage them to continue posting.

If I have missed any specific comments or feedback that people would like a response to, please draw my attention to it. Otherwise, I'm happy to respond to any further questions or queries.


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## barney (21 October 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> The site has 46,000 members according to the Forums page.
> 
> I wonder if it's possible to do an automated survey as to why only about less than 100 still continue to post, whether they use other sites, are out of the market altogether or just want to enjoy the fruits of their success, and what those who are left want from the site.
> 
> You might then get an idea of where the site is heading and whether its worth continuing or not.



A good suggestion SR …… @Joe Blow has everyone's email address on record so could either do a survey on the Forum or privately if he wished.  Any personal contact with Members is likely to have a positive effect you'd think.


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## Darc Knight (21 October 2018)

Even when you put the General Chat forum on ignore you can still see it in the Recent Activity page. It's too tempting


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## Joe Blow (21 October 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> Even when you put the General Chat forum on ignore you can still see it in the Recent Activity page. It's too tempting




Yes, that's true unfortunately. However, I didn't say never post in General Chat threads, just please post more often in threads in other forums.


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## minwa (21 October 2018)

Joe Blow said:


> I would be interested in hearing from those who are registered and who visit regularly but do not post. I'd like to know why.




I log in to see if there is any markets discussion. Mostly none, except for the 2 or so journals. All GC crap that I'm not interested in. Most of the quality trader/posters have left/inactive so there is no discussion at all anymore.

In theory, GC should be able to coexist with market discussions in the forum but recent 2 years or so seems like it can't and it drove some people away, which starts a domino effect as less participation obviously leads to even more people participating less (in market discussions).

Removing GC or at least cleaning a lot of it up may be the last gamble to save the forum as a stock forum. But it may be too late do so as the damage has been done and GC has taken over, removing it will probably kill the majority of the current posters. Tough decision to make.


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## barney (21 October 2018)

minwa said:


> I log in to see if there is any markets discussion. Mostly none, except for the 2 or so journals. All GC crap that I'm not interested in. Most of the quality trader/posters have left/inactive so there is no discussion at all anymore.
> 
> In theory, GC should be able to coexist with market discussions in the forum but recent 2 years or so seems like it can't and it drove some people away, which starts a domino effect as less participation obviously leads to even more people participating less (in market discussions).
> 
> Removing GC or at least cleaning a lot of it up may be the last gamble to save the forum as a stock forum. But it may be too late do so as the damage has been done and GC has taken over, removing it will probably kill the majority of the current posters. Tough decision to make.




Hey @minwa ……. Good to see you are still around ….. You were one of the posters who many including myself were always keen to listen to given your success at the coalface so to speak ….. 

Can I tempt you into starting another of your own threads for at least a short time, just to perhaps help the Site with some trading substance ….. I'm sure @Joe Blow would appreciate your input as would many other Punters …….. 

Perhaps a Thread describing your trading journey from the beginning to how you became successful and how you achieved that ……. I can assure you there will be a captive audience  Cheers M8.


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## Smurf1976 (22 October 2018)

I see some similarities with other industries here.

Radio broadcasting is one. Every time you change the format or music style you loose a good chunk of the current audience who switch to whoever's playing that sort of music. I've seen a former number 1 commercial station decline to the point where a non-profit community station actually beat them in a ratings period due to that. Change, change, change - it drove everyone away. In due course it was bought out.

So if you're going to change in a manner that kills of some of the present customer base, make damn sure it's the right change and do it once only.

Nightclubs are another industry with a constant turnover of patrons. Let's be blunt and to the point - what is that industry _really_ selling? DJ's and music? Nope they're mostly just to make the place better than the competition. Alcohol? Well that brings the money in but you can buy alcohol at a fraction of the price from any bottleshop. Socialisation? Not at 110 dB you're not. Nope, it's something far more basic - you're paying a cover charge and buying hugely expensive drinks so as to be in a relatively dark room surrounded by a disproportionate number of single people of the opposite (or same) sex most of whom are at least half way to being drunk. Hopefully that doesn't offend anyone - just telling it like it is at least in Australia.

That promise is what gets men in particular dancing to music they don't really like anyway and buying drinks at 10 times what they'd cost from a bottleshop. If the women weren't there then the men wouldn't have joined that queue, paid their money and got their wrist stamped in a million years. Well, the odd one yes but as a whole no.

Thing is, in due course most either find themselves in a relationship or realise that a room full of drunks and deafeningly loud music probably isn't the best place to meet someone for anything long term anyway (always some exceptions of course). Once that happens most spend far less time in clubs, not zero but definitely less unless they're some sort of hard core party freak, and a point comes where it goes to zero and stays there. Hence there's a high turnover of clubbers and either you attract those turning 18 or you're going to be out of business.

Now the surest way to have an empty club is to have an empty club. Might sound obvious but if the room fits 1000 people and there's only 100 there, well that's a pretty good way to have people walk in, see that it's dead, and walk straight out again wishing they hadn't just paid the cover charge. Those same people would have stayed if there were already 500 people in the room, as would the other 400 who walked in and didn't stay because nobody was there. So you've got the numbers but you can't make them stick.

Now Smurf has once played volleyball in the middle of the night on the dance floor in an almost empty club but I'm pretty sure they didn't make any money out of that. If the place is empty enough to be playing sports then it's not really working. You need people to make money and you need people to get people. A chicken and egg problem.

Now with a club you can sort of fake it a bit. Get a few uni students to hand out free entry cards or drink cards etc and give them whatever in return. Pay the $ and get a famous DJ and promote that heavily. Have no cover charge before 10:30, half price drinks until midnight, close off upstairs and push your whole attendance into the one space so it looks fuller, make people like up in a queue outside for no necessary reason, whatever. All aimed at making the place look fuller than it really is which then brings more people hey presto! Now it's actually full or close enough.

So we need more posts, stock posts or at least something about investing, on ASF in order to fix the empty room = empty room problem. Using the nightclub strategy, well we can't really just dump the crowd out of General Chat into the Stock Forum by playing crap music and turning on the ugly lights whilst having only one possible exit which just happens to lead right where we want them to end up, that's not going to work in this situation, but if we can encourage those posting in GC to divert their time and effort then that ought to achieve a similar result. 

Just my thoughts at about midnight after setting up the computer in my new house (all my recent posts have been on a phone.....). Tomorrow I'll post something about investing.....


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## Parse (22 October 2018)

Joe Blow said:


> More than 1,000 people visit ASF each weekday. Many of those are unregistered. Of those who are registered, only a small percentage post regularly. I would be interested in hearing from those who are registered and who visit regularly but do not post. I'd like to know why.




That's me! I visit every day and read a bunch but I have difficulty posting. Mainly because I don't know what to discuss and my knowledge on stocks/shares et al is limited. I don't even read the "General" section - didn't like the look of that ages ago when I did a read-through. I like discussions on various stocks but there isn't a lot there that I can make comments on. That could be because of my lack of knowledge too.

As to the website design, I have always felt that the Stocks 0-H, I-P, Q-Z forums are.. well they just don't seem right the way it's setup. I have tried to think of a better idea a few times but haven't come up with anything worthwhile as yet. Btw, have you noticed that SYA Sayona Mining is in Stocks 0-H? (Most probably had a name change at some point I guess)


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## barney (22 October 2018)

Parse said:


> That's me! I visit every day and read a bunch but I have difficulty posting. Mainly because I don't know what to discuss and my knowledge on stocks/shares et al is limited. I don't even read the "General" section - didn't like the look of that ages ago when I did a read-through. I like discussions on various stocks but there isn't a lot there that I can make comments on. That could be because of my lack of knowledge too.
> 
> As to the website design, I have always felt that the Stocks 0-H, I-P, Q-Z forums are.. well they just don't seem right the way it's setup. I have tried to think of a better idea a few times but haven't come up with anything worthwhile as yet. Btw, have you noticed that SYA Sayona Mining is in Stocks 0-H? (Most probably had a name change at some point I guess)




Howdy @Parse ….. I'm sure Joe appreciates your input. My suggestion would be to pick a few Stocks that you like or follow and simply update their news announcements on their respective threads. You don't need to have a discussion to have input, but you'll find that simply posting news will in itself likely create some discussion

*SYA* is a stock I'm interested in as well …..  *On July 10th, 2013, DiamonEx Limited (DON) changed its name to Sayona Mining Limited (SYA).*

Cheers.


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## PZ99 (22 October 2018)

Parse said:


> That's me! I visit every day and read a bunch but I have difficulty posting. Mainly because I don't know what to discuss and my knowledge on stocks/shares et al is limited. I don't even read the "General" section - didn't like the look of that ages ago when I did a read-through. I like discussions on various stocks but there isn't a lot there that I can make comments on. That could be because of my lack of knowledge too.



Can't be that bad mate, after all you won the comp last year 

_...flew past me at the last minute like a rat up an aquaduct. LOL_


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## barney (22 October 2018)

Smurf1976 said:


> A chicken and egg problem.
> 
> but if we can encourage those posting in GC to divert their time and effort then that ought to achieve a similar result.




Good thoughts Smurph ……. I agree that the last thing ASF needs is to banish the General Threads …. I think a simple layout change where the General posts are not so front and centre with Trade based posts would help regain more focus on the Trading threads by natural selection.


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## Joe Blow (22 October 2018)

Smurf1976 said:


> So we need more posts, stock posts or at least something about investing, on ASF in order to fix the empty room = empty room problem. Using the nightclub strategy, well we can't really just dump the crowd out of General Chat into the Stock Forum by playing crap music and turning on the ugly lights whilst having only one possible exit which just happens to lead right where we want them to end up, that's not going to work in this situation, but if we can encourage those posting in GC to divert their time and effort then that ought to achieve a similar result.




Yep, and that is exactly what I've been trying to encourage people to do for quite some time now. Not to stop posting in General Chat entirely, but to understand that ASF is a stock market forum first and that the General Chat forum is just one small part of that, a part which was intended to round out the community so forum members had a place where they could get away from the market and get to know each other better and chat about topics unrelated to stocks, trading and investing.

The balance needs to be restored as a matter of necessity. I'm not doing this to irritate people, I'm doing this because I have to. There is no alternative. So rather than shutting down General Chat entirely I'm asking people to please lend a hand and start posting more often in threads in forums other than General Chat. I'm not trying to piss in people's cornflakes, I'm merely asking for help.



Parse said:


> That's me! I visit every day and read a bunch but I have difficulty posting. Mainly because I don't know what to discuss and my knowledge on stocks/shares et al is limited. I don't even read the "General" section - didn't like the look of that ages ago when I did a read-through. I like discussions on various stocks but there isn't a lot there that I can make comments on. That could be because of my lack of knowledge too.




If you follow any stocks and notice any price sensitive announcements of interest, or some unusual price action, then post about it in those threads. It is not necessary to post analysis. Information can be just as useful as analysis.



Parse said:


> As to the website design, I have always felt that the Stocks 0-H, I-P, Q-Z forums are.. well they just don't seem right the way it's setup. I have tried to think of a better idea a few times but haven't come up with anything worthwhile as yet. Btw, have you noticed that SYA Sayona Mining is in Stocks 0-H? (Most probably had a name change at some point I guess)




I have now moved the SYA thread into the correct forum. Thanks for letting me know. With regards to the way the stock threads are organised, I'm of the same mind. It seems as though there could be a better way to do it, but I just haven't figured out what that is yet.


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## Ann (22 October 2018)

G'day All, I almost never look at General Chat even though it is posted on the list of 'recent posts'. I think the only time was recently when I added some pictures to a thread of Vintage propaganda adverts. I am dyslexic so reading is not my first choice activity. However I am guessing this forum is watched by a lot who really enjoy reading General Chat. There are 427 people sitting on this site as I write this, not bad for a Monday morning, I should have thought they must be looking or reading something. Joe can see what they are looking at. They probably jump on most of the new posts and read them. I think Joe is doing very well to have 100 regular posters. I have found the people who post here make intelligent comments. I can't speak for GC of course.

For a very short time I ran a Gold Forum called Hardmoney with Zed/Z/Zorro. It had a number of the eccentrics who got banned from the original Kitco wild west forum after it got revamped and began being run by Suuuuper Mod.   One of the features of the site was members were able to change the look of the skin of the forum to suit their tastes. I have a feeling people had to be signed in to see their choice of skin otherwise they just saw the default. Maybe Joe could have a feature like that in order to make people sign in. Still probably won't get them to post though.

I have to hang my head in shame when you see how long I have been here and how few posts I have made. As my focus is on charting and as it can take me some hours to draw a chart I rarely have the time to devote to lots of charts. Then after I put up a chart I can often get some lengthy discussion from the fundamentalists, True Believers or Experts telling me I am wrong or charts are simply B/S. That's fine, I don't mind that. Fundamentalists write a lot and have few paragraphs. As someone with Dyslexia I can tell you I end up having no idea what they are saying and it becomes a pointless exercise, so I tend to hit ASF with a chart and then bugger off! 

I will try to mend my ways Joe and start posting more.

I know! I will start another thread in GC about Climate Change, how cool would that be?


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## basilio (22 October 2018)

I think the challenging part of having more posts in the stock section is "What does one say " ?

If one was a day trader or a stock ramper then certainly creating or encouraging all sorts of rumours around penny stocks  is great.  But that is verbotem and Joe is (very rightly) quick to ensure that stock pumping is minimal.

The trouble is that the quick money does come from questionable SP movements in penny dreadfuls. Truthfully most of these companies seem to exist for the benefit of teh directors, stock  promoters and rampers. Any serious investors seem to lose their shirts.

Also it seems that the market is splitting between a core of big index companies that continue to attract institutional support and the bulk of the market that is not going anywhere. I'm not sure how  this issue (if it is correct) is addressed.

Joes comment about the value of a constructive, friendly atmosphere in the forums seems spot on. It is better to be in a more welcoming environment than a hostile one.  I noticed that Tisme has taken a break perhaps as a response to the criticism of some of his posts.

I don't think that is the answer.  From memory when Tisme first joined ASF I was impressed with his sharpness and, in my view, astute comments.  My view changed but only because of the content and tone of his posts. It can always change again.

*A thought.  *Would Joe consider asking  15-25 - X current or previous posters who demonstrated good understandings of the market to be regular posters and leaders in stock discussions ?  In a sense it would give  formal recognition to the people who effectively create the conversations around the best value stocks and ways to invest with a better chance of a return. There is no direct money obviously but in fact if people are capable of demonstrating good research and astute understandings regarding  stock plays the encouragement of other investors could improve the SP.


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## systematic (22 October 2018)

Some of the comments that follow I've said before when Joe has asked in other threads (or possibly earlier in this thread), but one thought (3rd to 5th paragraphs) I've probably not thought to mention.

Remember that it's not just the general chat that has driven a few away.  On the GC; I've said before I barely venture there.  I learned early on that I would come to dislike several of you after reading some illogical and unintelligent drivel on certain topics, and so I made myself stay away.  Just so that I could still like you in the stock forums 

Aside from general chat...I've seen a few become dormant after threads get derailed.  I think this has largely gone away (my impression) in more recent times - thankfully!  But it was alive and well in the past.  Someone would start a topic based around some fundamental analysis and some idiot would chime in something completely irrelevant, like, 'just look at the chart' or whatever.  They obviously weren't interested in the thread's original topic, yet they chose to post instead of move on! That made me so mad.  And, I know others that got mad enough to leave, at the point they'd had enough.  I've always considered the opening post of a thread to be the guiding light of that thread.  If you want to talk about something completely different - start a new thread. 

Again - thankfully I don't think that's happening anywhere near as much these days, but it certainly did and the impact it had is possibly underestimated.  Someone from this forum actually started a new, completely private forum (I was on the invite list, and accepted) and the motive behind them starting it was exactly the reasons I mention above.

Given that it doesn't seem to be a trait of the forum at the moment - let's not take it for granted and be vigilant to avoid that kind of trait appearing in the future.

Apart from that, I agree with what I and other have already mentioned as challenges that ASF faces.  

I'm a forum person (which probably dates me) but I've seen large forums in other topics I'm interested in die out ('health' and 'business' being the broad categories).  Have people gone to Facebook groups?  I don't know.  In some cases, yes.  So, the million dollar question is, what does Joe/ASF do about that?  The options are - you let it die out, you try and keep it alive (Joe's current approach) or you try and transition to something else by looking at what is proving popular and move in that direction.  The second option (keeping it alive) obviously still requires a change in approach - because, 'if you keep doing what you've been doing, you'll keep getting what you've been getting'.  More on that in the 3rd bullet point
The stock market itself is a topic that is not exactly flavour of the month - at least not to the masses.  That's a generalism that definitely has some truth.  We all know that investors went away after '08 and we haven't exactly had a bubble since then to get everyone excited again.  Having said that - there _is_ a plethora of stock market information out there, and sites that do well.  People are always looking for information.  What does ASF offer?  Discussion.  A sense of community (when it's at its best).  But what do people want?  Maybe they want news.  Maybe they want educators.  Maybe they want stock data.  I don't know.  If I was treating it like a business, that's what I'd be looking at.  Sorry Joe - but that one's your job 
Back to 'forums don't seem to be working'.  That's not entirely true, of course.  But like anything and everything in business, it's about differentiation, finding your niche etc.  There are forums (even in the investing/stock market space) that charge for membership. They do that by fulfilling the need of a niche/sub-niche - same as any business.  But that too is a business direction question for Joe; however if members are craving something in particular (e.g. a chartist only forum, a value investors forum, a day trading or Australian FX traders etc etc), they should let Joe know.  
Random ideas: pay people (or let them have the ad rev) for articles on the site (seeking alpha style) to generate content.  Partner up with or feature various product sellers who'd trade the content for the exposure (e.g. get an SMSF to do a webinar). Become a source of some unique angle of stock market data.  Provide a means for people to post / track portfolios and become heroes (like those sites that track traders). Become a contest site that rivals the ASX game with frequent contests and various sponsored prizes.  Any of those could either become a feature of the current site OR transition the site from forums to something else.
Most of these types of ideas are about getting bigger.  But again, another way to go is the other direction and go smaller.  Especially if you can't compete with the big players in your space (I'm assuming that's Hot Copper). But to go smaller, ad rev probably isn't going to support the site and so a different angle pursued.


I realise that my entire post is, like most, lacking any real answers for Joe and the site's direction for the future.  But that's all I've got.


----------



## satanoperca (22 October 2018)

A simple solution that allows Recent Posts to be filtered. If you want to see threads in general chat, just check the box, if not, only share related topics are shown.


----------



## SirRumpole (22 October 2018)

basilio said:


> I don't think that is the answer. From memory when Tisme first joined ASF I was impressed with his sharpness and, in my view, astute comments. My view changed but only because of the content and tone of his posts. It can always change again.




Told you you would miss him.


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## satanoperca (22 October 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Told you you would miss him.



You might Sir, but many will not, this is a share and investment forum, not a Tisme forum.
He or she or may heshe has lots of energy/smart and an incredible grasp of the english language, let them put it to good use and not take a forum off course.


----------



## Darc Knight (22 October 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Told you you would miss him.




Are they both Single?

@basilio 

@Tisme

<runs away>


----------



## Joe Blow (22 October 2018)

systematic said:


> Aside from general chat...I've seen a few become dormant after threads get derailed.  I think this has largely gone away (my impression) in more recent times - thankfully!  But it was alive and well in the past.  Someone would start a topic based around some fundamental analysis and some idiot would chime in something completely irrelevant, like, 'just look at the chart' or whatever.  They obviously weren't interested in the thread's original topic, yet they chose to post instead of move on! That made me so mad.  And, I know others that got mad enough to leave, at the point they'd had enough.  I've always considered the opening post of a thread to be the guiding light of that thread.  If you want to talk about something completely different - start a new thread.




Agree. I call this thread spoiling and I think it causes a lot of damage to serious discussions. There is nothing wrong with respectfully disagreeing, or having an alternative viewpoint and wanting to put it out there. However, there is something wrong in shouting others down or deliberately derailing threads.



systematic said:


> Given that it doesn't seem to be a trait of the forum at the moment - let's not take it for granted and be vigilant to avoid that kind of trait appearing in the future.




I intend to do my best to keep a lid on this type of behaviour in future.



systematic said:


> Apart from that, I agree with what I and other have already mentioned as challenges that ASF faces.
> 
> I'm a forum person (which probably dates me) but I've seen large forums in other topics I'm interested in die out ('health' and 'business' being the broad categories).  Have people gone to Facebook groups?  I don't know.  In some cases, yes.  So, the million dollar question is, what does Joe/ASF do about that?  The options are - you let it die out, you try and keep it alive (Joe's current approach) or you try and transition to something else by looking at what is proving popular and move in that direction.  The second option (keeping it alive) obviously still requires a change in approach - because, 'if you keep doing what you've been doing, you'll keep getting what you've been getting'.



To satisfy my curiosity I joined a half a dozen ASX Facebook Groups and made the following observations:

Comments are mostly one or two sentences and 75% of the content is ramping.
There is no sense of the content being organised or searchable.
Many groups are inactive.

The groups that are active are filled with spam.
The active groups are very political with lots of sniping and petty attacks on others.

As a result of the sniping and highly political atmosphere, splinter groups end up leaving and starting their own groups, most of which soon become inactive.
They may work for some, but not me. I've been spending less and less time at Facebook and I prefer the forum format.

I'm obviously for option #2, keeping it alive. I'm still in the process of developing a strategy that includes having General Chat content filtered out by default but allowing people to opt in and out at will, focusing on fostering a positive, constructive atmosphere rather than a toxic atmosphere, and a website rework in early-mid 2019 that implements new functionality that improves site layout, navigation, and content organisation. New features too. More on that later.



systematic said:


> The stock market itself is a topic that is not exactly flavour of the month - at least not to the masses.  That's a generalism that definitely has some truth.  We all know that investors went away after '08 and we haven't exactly had a bubble since then to get everyone excited again.  Having said that - there _is_ a plethora of stock market information out there, and sites that do well.  People are always looking for information.  What does ASF offer?  Discussion.  A sense of community (when it's at its best).  But what do people want?  Maybe they want news.  Maybe they want educators.  Maybe they want stock data.  I don't know.  If I was treating it like a business, that's what I'd be looking at.  Sorry Joe - but that one's your job




My experience is that everyone wants something different. Or at least that's how it seems. I'm big on discussion and community but it is clear that space is evolving. Forum software is evolving too in response but it's happening at a slower pace, or at least it has until now. Facebook Groups as previously mentioned has had an impact but I'm not convinced that it works better than forums.

As for content, I'm happy to hear suggestions. I don't know either. 



systematic said:


> Back to 'forums don't seem to be working'.  That's not entirely true, of course.  But like anything and everything in business, it's about differentiation, finding your niche etc.  There are forums (even in the investing/stock market space) that charge for membership. They do that by fulfilling the need of a niche/sub-niche - same as any business.  But that too is a business direction question for Joe; however if members are craving something in particular (e.g. a chartist only forum, a value investors forum, a day trading or Australian FX traders etc etc), they should let Joe know.
> Random ideas: pay people (or let them have the ad rev) for articles on the site (seeking alpha style) to generate content.  Partner up with or feature various product sellers who'd trade the content for the exposure (e.g. get an SMSF to do a webinar). Become a source of some unique angle of stock market data.  Provide a means for people to post / track portfolios and become heroes (like those sites that track traders). Become a contest site that rivals the ASX game with frequent contests and various sponsored prizes.  Any of those could either become a feature of the current site OR transition the site from forums to something else.



Too many ideas there to respond to individually, but some great food for thought. Thanks for your thoughts. If anyone would like to second any ideas, please do so. It's hard for me to detect any sort of consensus about what features/content people would like to see. Don't be afraid to speak up and let me know.



systematic said:


> Most of these types of ideas are about getting bigger.  But again, another way to go is the other direction and go smaller.  Especially if you can't compete with the big players in your space (I'm assuming that's Hot Copper). But to go smaller, ad rev probably isn't going to support the site and so a different angle pursued.




I'd like to be a little bigger than we are now, but not too much so. I'd be happy with the size we were about ten years ago. Active, constructive, friendly, content heavy. That would be enough for me.



systematic said:


> I realise that my entire post is, like most, lacking any real answers for Joe and the site's direction for the future.  But that's all I've got.




Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## luutzu (22 October 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Told you you would miss him.




No Yin without Yang.


----------



## SirRumpole (22 October 2018)

Joe Blow said:


> If anyone would like to second any ideas, please do so. It's hard for me to detect any sort of consensus about what features/content people would like to see. Don't be afraid to speak up and let me know.




Would it be possible to automatically trawl other news feeds searching for financial information that may be relevant and post this on a news page ?

I don't know how you would go with copyright , but once it's in the public domain its ok isn't it ?

That would give a one stop go to page instead of people having to do the trawling themselves and would generate a lot of traffic I reckon.


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## Joe Blow (22 October 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Would it be possible to automatically trawl other news feeds searching for financial information that may be relevant and post this on a news page ?
> 
> I don't know how you would go with copyright , but once it's in the public domain its ok isn't it ?
> 
> That would give a one stop go to page instead of people having to do the trawling themselves and would generate a lot of traffic I reckon.




I think a page devoted to financial news from different sources each with a different focus would be a good idea. As you say, it would all have to be in the public domain and copyright free.


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## systematic (22 October 2018)

Joe Blow said:


> I think a page devoted to financial news from different sources each with a different focus would be a good idea. As you say, it would all have to be in the public domain and copyright free.




Snippets with links out (opening in a new tab, of course) comes to mind.

The value could come from the way it's organised (e.g. perhaps the option for the user to sort the news feed chronologically or by A-Z stock ticker so they can find the stock they want the latest news on)


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## satanoperca (22 October 2018)

Guys and Girls, the question is not whether to add in more functionality into the site, the question is, is general chat distracting from the other threads that are related to stocks, shares and investments and thus discouraging people from visiting and posting that only want to discuss the primary purpose of the forum.


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## systematic (22 October 2018)

satanoperca said:


> Guys and Girls, the question is not whether to add in more functionality into the site, the question is, is general chat distracting from the other threads that are related to stocks, shares and investments and thus discouraging people from visiting and posting that only want to discuss the primary purpose of the forum.




Actually, the question (according to thread title) is how to reinvigorate ASF as a stock forum, which leaves it pretty open to ideas, I would have thought.
But yes, the 'general chat' topic is certainly shaping to be an important part of that discussion.


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## satanoperca (22 October 2018)

While ideas are great, sometimes to make changes, it is the lowest hanging fruit that can give best bang for buck.
So, would a filter on the "Recent" button to filter out or in GC to be of some benefit?


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## systematic (22 October 2018)

Incidentally, I just checked the first post to this thread - and read the initial couple of replies - and it's quite eye opening!

The original post is 8 years old...and the poster (nioka) claims that the issue was already a couple years old then!  The follow up comments seem to confirm that.

So here we are...it looks like we're talking about what seems to be a 10 year old issue on this forum.  Wow!

Is it a case of what I said earlier - 'if you keep doing what you've been doing, you'll keep getting what you've been getting?


----------



## satanoperca (22 October 2018)

You maybe correct, but that does not help or provide part of a solution to the problem. Easy to look back, look forward, what are some simple measures Joe can do that can help build/rebuild the community at ASF.


----------



## SirRumpole (22 October 2018)

satanoperca said:


> Guys and Girls, the question is not whether to add in more functionality into the site, the question is, is general chat distracting from the other threads that are related to stocks, shares and investments and thus discouraging people from visiting and posting that only want to discuss the primary purpose of the forum.




I think we have been through this before, but once again:-

General Chat can be hidden by any user and somewhere on this thread tells you how to do it. Once you do that it doesn't appear in the Recent posts lists.

In addition it could be a sub-forum under Members Only so that guests don't see it by default.

Having said that, in addition to some of the febrile threads in GC (which in any case are good for letting off steam) there are many of interest to the investment community as well as for getting an idea how "real stuff" works on the ground and people's real thoughts without the PC stuff. 

Smurf's posts in the Energy thread are classics and if it wasn't for GC we would never have got this very useful information.

So don't knock GC offhand. The real world doesn't just consist of trading bits of paper.


----------



## greggles (22 October 2018)

systematic said:


> The original post is 8 years old...and the poster (nioka) claims that the issue was already a couple years old then!  The follow up comments seem to confirm that.
> 
> So here we are...it looks like we're talking about what seems to be a 10 year old issue on this forum.  Wow!




10 years ago = GFC. It drove a lot of retail punters out of the market.


----------



## satanoperca (22 October 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> I think we have been through this before, but once again:-
> 
> General Chat can be hidden by any user and somewhere on this thread tells you how to do it. Once you do that it doesn't appear in the Recent posts lists.
> 
> ...




No wonder everyone is leaving, read my post, it was very simple.

Place a filter mechanism on new posts functionality to filter out GC is you select.

I did not mention removing GC, I like it, just want a simple way of filtering it out when I need to.

"General Chat can be hidden by any user and somewhere on this thread tells you how to do it. Once you do that it doesn't appear in the Recent posts lists." This is my point, go UI design is about making is easy for a user to change the content results, not having to find a post to work out how to do it.

So again, would a check box to include GC threads in the NEW POSTS be helpful or not?

Please a simple YES or NO


----------



## SirRumpole (22 October 2018)

satanoperca said:


> So again, would a check box to include GC threads in the NEW POSTS be helpful or not?
> 
> Please a simple YES or NO




Yes.


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## satanoperca (22 October 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Yes.



 Thank-you


----------



## CBerg (22 October 2018)

Joe Blow said:


> Thank you all for the feedback. I accept that changes need to be made and that ASF needs to be improved.
> 
> As @barney, @greggles, @bellenuit and others have pointed out the Home Page needs some work. I have taken this feedback on board and will be using the suggestions made to make it more user friendly when it is time for the next website redesign.
> 
> ...



Long time lurker here, I can't remember if the site was around in 05/06 but I have memories it was. I guess my interest in shares waned while other things in life took over. I'm back paying attention to my personal finances & having extra money around I'm keen to see it grow so that's why I'm back.

I'm more a fundamentals investor & a lot of the active traders here are definitely technical, so it's slow going for me. I can read a P&L, Balance sheet & Cash flow and have a decent idea of what's happening. I even understand most of the ratios but I've got no clue how to do a DCF which I'd love to know how to do or be shown a really good tutorial to follow.


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## greggles (22 October 2018)

Problem: ASF needs to be reinvigorated as a stock forum.
Solution: Post more in stock threads.
Reality: Spend 326 posts (so far) talking about the problem instead of posting more in stock threads.


----------



## satanoperca (22 October 2018)

greggles said:


> Problem: ASF needs to be reinvigorated as a stock forum.
> Solution: Post more in stock threads.
> Reality: Spend 326 posts (so far) talking about the problem instead of posting more in stock threads.



That is correct Greggles but does not change user behavior. 

So given it has been identified that GC is distracting posters from posting in stock threads, would you support a small check box on the NEW POSTS buttons that would allow users to filter out GC threads?

Simple again YES or NO.

Thanks


----------



## peter2 (22 October 2018)

I'm not distracted by the General Chat, but concede that others might be. My suggestion is to exclude all General Chat threads from appearing on the home page. This means excluding them from the Trending Topics and Recent Posts lists. 

Every forum needs a general chat section, just as we needed a members only section. 

I'll admit that I often read the threads without logging in. Perhaps it's time to change this and limit the number of posts that can be read without logging in. 

ASF won't survive without contributions on topic from it's members. I don't know how we're going to induce more posts from our members. Throughout the three years that I maintained the momentum portfolio I had hoped to establish a small group of short term ASX traders that would benefit from each others ideas. A group to help maintain focus and discipline during difficult times and create trading ideas that we could all share. It didn't happen in spite of my open invitations. Personally I missed most of the lithium rally. During the three years I missed several rallies in the gold sector.  Biotechs I dislike. Every short term trader will miss rallies in various sectors for a variety of reasons. A group with a shared goal would not have missed as much as any sole trader. 

I think the addition of ASX announcements and copyright free news into the specific stock threads is a no-brainer. I won't accept the "it's too difficult to do" excuse. All it needs is a bit of code. 

I'll tell you what is hard, working out what you have to do to be a profitable trader/investor. ASF has many successful traders/investors in the community. I can't understand why other members aren't taking advantage of their knowledge and experience. These valuable members are drifting away from ASF because they're not challenged. They're not seeing anything of interest to hold them here.


----------



## satanoperca (22 October 2018)

peter2 said:


> I'm not distracted by the General Chat, but concede that others might be. My suggestion is to exclude all General Chat threads from appearing on the home page. This means excluding them from the Trending Topics and Recent Posts lists.
> 
> Every forum needs a general chat section, just as we needed a members only section.
> 
> ...



Peter I agree with your comments, but we don't need to exclude GC, we just need to be able to easily filter out the threads.

Would you support a simple filter check box as mentioned above? YES/NO


----------



## greggles (22 October 2018)

satanoperca said:


> That is correct Greggles but does not change user behavior.
> 
> So given it has been identified that GC is distracting posters from posting in stock threads, would you support a small check box on the NEW POSTS buttons that would allow users to filter out GC threads?
> 
> Simple again YES or NO.




Yes. But it won't change the user behaviour that needs to be changed, and that is forum members posting more in stock market related threads, investing threads and trading threads.



peter2 said:


> ASF won't survive without contributions on topic from it's members.




Bingo. Too many people sit back and read what other people post without contributing themselves. That is the root of the problem. People seem happy to post in this thread, but not where it counts.



peter2 said:


> I don't know how we're going to induce more posts from our members. Throughout the three years that I maintained the momentum portfolio I had hoped to establish a small group of short term ASX traders that would benefit from each others ideas. A group to help maintain focus and discipline during difficult times and create trading ideas that we could all share. It didn't happen in spite of my open invitations. Personally I missed most of the lithium rally. During the three years I missed several rallies in the gold sector.  Biotechs I dislike. Every short term trader will miss rallies in various sectors for a variety of reasons. A group with a shared goal would not have missed as much as any sole trader.




I can't answer that peter. Apathy springs to mind. So does the way social media has made us into mindless zombies, scrolling past information on our screen but not contributing.

The problem is not software features or forum navigation or General Chat, although I can see how those things may irritate some people. The problem is simply a lack of participation. Only those who do not participate can answer that question. Perhaps some could post and let us know.



peter2 said:


> I think the addition of ASX announcements and copyright free news into the specific stock threads is a no-brainer. I won't accept the "it's too difficult to do" excuse. All it needs is a bit of code.




I think it costs money to license the ASX announcements from the ASX. Perhaps somebody else can confirm?


----------



## peter2 (22 October 2018)

satanoperca said:


> Peter I agree with your comments, but we don't need to exclude GC, we just need to be able to easily filter out the threads.
> 
> Would you support a simple filter check box as mentioned above? YES/NO




YES

Gotta go, EU, GU, UJ  just busted higher.


----------



## greggles (22 October 2018)

peter2 said:


> ASF won't survive without contributions on topic from it's members.




From Julia back in 2010, a few pages into this thread:


Julia said:


> ASF is what it is as a result of the contributions of the members (obviously).  If we all sit back and read what someone else has said but decline to become involved ourselves, then the result will be as we have been seeing.




Says it all really. Post, post, post!


----------



## SirRumpole (22 October 2018)

greggles said:


> From Julia back in 2010, a few pages into this thread:
> 
> 
> Says it all really. Post, post, post!




It also says that the decline is not a recent phenomena.

If people have lost interest in the stock market, then no amount of cajolling will get them to post.


----------



## satanoperca (22 October 2018)

greggles said:


> Yes. But it won't change the user behaviour that needs to be changed, and that is forum members posting more in stock market related threads, investing threads and trading threads.
> 
> Bingo. Too many people sit back and read what other people post without contributing themselves. That is the root of the problem. People seem happy to post in this thread, but not where it counts.



Just like investing, we don't need a increase in a day, week, month of 50% to be rich, ASF needs some small changes that result in some small positive results, over time, compounded, they result in a positive, the forum grows in a positive direction and we all benefit.

I 100% agree, more posts are positive as long as they are within the core of the site


----------



## satanoperca (22 October 2018)

"Yes. But it won't change the user behaviour that needs to be changed, and that is forum members posting more in stock market related threads, investing threads and trading threads"

Greggles, what is the smallest thing, the simplest thing, that can make a change?


----------



## systematic (22 October 2018)

satanoperca said:


> You maybe correct, but that does not help or provide part of a solution to the problem. Easy to look back, look forward, what are some simple measures Joe can do that can help build/rebuild the community at ASF.




It was simply an observation, satanoperca.

As for simple measures - I've taken the time to at least reply (at some length) with at least a few ideas...in both this, and other like threads that we've had in recent times.


----------



## systematic (22 October 2018)

satanoperca said:


> So again, would a check box to include GC threads in the NEW POSTS be helpful or not?
> 
> Please a simple YES or NO




Absolutely - it would be one, simple, easy and useful idea. I thought Joe said he was going to do that - or did I day dream that?


----------



## greggles (22 October 2018)

satanoperca said:


> Greggles, what is the smallest thing, the simplest thing, that can make a change?




Anything can make change and I think any change in the right direction is a good thing.


----------



## Joe Blow (22 October 2018)

peter2 said:


> I'm not distracted by the General Chat, but concede that others might be. My suggestion is to exclude all General Chat threads from appearing on the home page. This means excluding them from the Trending Topics and Recent Posts list.




General Chat threads were removed from the Trending Topics widget very recently. They are currently only excluded from "Recent Posts" if the individual forum member has chosen to ignore the forum. I am currently considering other options.



peter2 said:


> Every forum needs a general chat section, just as we needed a members only section




Agree.



peter2 said:


> I'll admit that I often read the threads without logging in. Perhaps it's time to change this and limit the number of posts that can be read without logging in.




Unfortunately, this would eliminate all the search engine traffic that ASF receives and cause it to go under pretty much straight away. If Google can't visit a page, it won't index it. If unregistered visitors can't see it then neither can Google. The vast majority of revenue is generated by people who have arrived here from search engines rather than regular visitors.



peter2 said:


> I think the addition of ASX announcements and copyright free news into the specific stock threads is a no-brainer. I won't accept the "it's too difficult to do" excuse. All it needs is a bit of code




I won't give you the "it's too difficult to do" excuse. Instead I'll give you the "it's too expensive to do" excuse. I haven't checked the price recently but licensed content from the ASX is incredibly expensive. They do not distinguish on the basis of website size (i.e. traffic). It is a very high monthly fee that in my view is out of all proportion and entirely unreasonable.

I will check with Richard Dale and confirm current prices just to satisfy my curiosity.



peter2 said:


> ASF won't survive without contributions on topic from it's members. I don't know how we're going to induce more posts from our members. Throughout the three years that I maintained the momentum portfolio I had hoped to establish a small group of short term ASX traders that would benefit from each others ideas. A group to help maintain focus and discipline during difficult times and create trading ideas that we could all share. It didn't happen in spite of my open invitations. Personally I missed most of the lithium rally. During the three years I missed several rallies in the gold sector.  Biotechs I dislike. Every short term trader will miss rallies in various sectors for a variety of reasons. A group with a shared goal would not have missed as much as any sole trader.
> 
> I'll tell you what is hard, working out what you have to do to be a profitable trader/investor. ASF has many successful traders/investors in the community. I can't understand why other members aren't taking advantage of their knowledge and experience. These valuable members are drifting away from ASF because they're not challenged. They're not seeing anything of interest to hold them here.




The lack of participation at ASF is my primary concern and has been for a number of years. It really bothers me to read these two paragraphs because it speaks volume about the current state of affairs here. A number of people have mentioned things that frustrate them about ASF, the General Chat forum posts, certain aspects of the site's design and navigation, etc., but I'm not sure what the real reason for the lack of participation is. I'm not sure new features or new content or a new design will necessarily change that level of participation. Will those things make people post more? I find that hard to believe although I am willing to be proven wrong.

If I could ask everyone reading this thread one question it would be just that: what would make you post more? If I knew the answer to that question ASF's problems would be over very quickly indeed.


----------



## barney (22 October 2018)

satanoperca said:


> Peter I agree with your comments, but we don't need to exclude GC, we just need to be able to easily filter out the threads.
> 
> Would you support a simple filter check box as mentioned above? YES/NO




My opinion for what it's worth ……. The "filter" option suggested by @satanoperca is possibly the simplest and easiest "First Step" in making the ASF site more Trading orientated

I have no interest in eliminating General threads, but I believe if the content presented to both Members and the average Visitor punter on the Home Page etc is more Trading orientated, it will naturally follow that there will be more input on those threads …. The general threads are great but they should not create a distraction for any new visitors. 

The simple Filter suggestion has my vote because it will highlight Stock posts from people like @greggles to nearer the top of the queue *for a longer period of time*, rather than see them disappear into insignificance


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## satanoperca (22 October 2018)

barney said:


> The simple Filter suggestion has my vote because it will highlight Stock posts from people like @greggles to nearer the top of the queue *for a longer period of time*, rather than see them disappear into insignificance




Ah, I hadn't even realized the implication of implementing a basic filter like this, that is why I love working together with people to share ideas and create the community that Joe has built through hard work, barney you are 100% correct, if the filter is implemented, stock related threads will remain higher in the search results and not be drowned out by the GC and distracting users from posting.

Appreciate your insights or thoughts or just general comments


----------



## systematic (22 October 2018)

Joe Blow said:


> The lack of participation at ASF is my primary concern and has been for a number of years. It really bothers me to read these two paragraphs because it speaks volume about the current state of affairs here. A number of people have mentioned things that frustrate them about ASF, the General Chat forum posts, certain aspects of the site's design and navigation, etc., but I'm not sure what the real reason for the lack of participation is. I'm not sure new features or new content or a new design will necessarily change that level of participation. Will those things make people post more? I find that hard to believe although I am willing to be proven wrong.
> 
> If I could ask everyone reading this thread one question it would be just that: what would make you post more? If I knew the answer to that question ASF's problems would be over very quickly indeed.




The new features ideas were more in the context of new users and growing ASF as a brand.  I agree - they may not do a lot for level of participation of members.

Peter2 (who you quote above) reminds me of a sentiment I have shared.  I wonder if we all have different interests in the market.  I enjoy (probably moreso in the past than present) looking at which ASX stocks qualify under known systems - such as NCAV, Magic Formula, Piotroski etc.  I was genuinely surprised - a little disappointed as well, but more surprised - that I almost felt alone in those or similar threads.  So - the market participants that I want to play with, are those interested in banging on about system trading / investing.  And because I'm not someone who needs to impose on every thread, I'm going to tend not to post to a macroeconomic thread or, say, Peter2's forex thread - apart from to say, 'cool, watching with interest' - because it's not my thing.  And, I assume, vice versa.

Part of it might be the old saying that trading / investing is quite a solitary past-time? I'm really only interested in my own analysis, and I expect others to be the same.  Someone posting a chart or analysis on some stock - how could that be part of my own investing plan?  In fact, that's exactly what people do in the 'real world' - and it's a bad practice!  I'm all for learning and education - and so those threads (where I can learn, or sometimes contribute) are great.  But what someone else thinks about a stock I own or could own - is irrelevant.  

The magic question you ask: what would make you post more?  Well, given that we're especially talking about the individual stock threads (correct?) - I don't know.  
I _could _go and post in 100 stock threads tomorrow, with, "this currently looks like a quality stock based on 'x'  Maybe I should - maybe I will!  But it'd be more to help out.  I don't have a particular _need_ to do that.  I think that was the gist of the recent thread on this similar topic, wasn't it?  And, quite a few of us did step it up a bit (posting to individual stocks a bit more). But again - for me at least - it's difficult to keep that up.  It's not meant to feel like a job.


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## Gringotts Bank (22 October 2018)

Joe Blow said:


> If I could ask everyone reading this thread one question it would be just that: what would make you post more? If I knew the answer to that question ASF's problems would be over very quickly indeed*.*




You're doing what I would have done a while back - asking the customer.

But as a business you can't afford to do that.  The customer/end-user/buyer should never be aware of the company's problems.  And they should never be asked what's wrong, how to fix the problem or if they would contribute to fixing the problem.  The reason for this is because such actions send a very negative message to everyone.  And the message is "things aren't going so well here", and that repels a *lot* of people.  Visitors and members should never have _*any* _awareness of this.  Even if you do this one thing alone, you will stop the bleeding.  It's business as usual at ASF.

Businesses require a leader with a strong mojo.  From mojo comes passion and belief.  And all the other requirements flow from this - time, energy, investment, involvement.  I know it's not easy, but if there's any hint of 'blah' in you (lack of mojo), that's the place to start.  Start with yourself and people will return.  If you are vibrant, you will automatically attract business, _*even if you change nothing about ASF.  *_That's both my personal experience and observation of others' businesses.  Once you find your mojo, then you start implementing the changes suggested by members.


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## satanoperca (22 October 2018)

So provide a solution or potential solution or part of a solution, you just state the obvious.
You sound like ever other self help guru on the internet, provide your opinion without any direction.
Joe is trying to build a community, he is not the leader, just the facilitator that gets us all together


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## basilio (22 October 2018)

I'll  return with a suggestion I offered earlier. 

Currently it seems that ASF is purely Joes "business" and we are all customers or clients. 
However the reality is that the intellectual property that will create further interest and activity on ASF lies  in a small percentage of the clients.  It is the research of Greggles,  the  energy knowledge of Smurf, the analysis  of Pixel (now gone..) and the expertise of many others that adds  critical value to forums.

Is there a way to more formally recognise these skills to
1) Encourage them to become leaders in the discussions in their areas of expertise
2) Encourage new people to joinbecasue they want to learn about particular trading systems, share selection, analysis whatever.

Thoughts ?


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## Garpal Gumnut (22 October 2018)

I myself enjoy the layout of ASF and am comfortable to browse and download topics of interest.

The "other forum" tend to have a flood tactic with so many stocks being displayed simultaneously and available with a click. 

I have seen this ASF forum setup elsewhere so it must be fairly vanilla.

It is your call Joe.

As you know in the past I have advocated for attention to large caps on ASF. All to no avail.

If you are making a quid from the forum commensurate with the time spent then keep it going, then keep on. 

Many posters are just big sister boys who like to whinge ( from my indigenous roots so do not censor admin ) .

I like ASF.

gg


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## Gringotts Bank (22 October 2018)

satanoperca said:


> So provide a solution or potential solution or part of a solution, you just state the obvious.
> You sound like ever other self help guru on the internet, provide your opinion without any direction.
> Joe is trying to build a community, he is not the leader, just the facilitator that gets us all together




This is the sort of **** posting that puts people off.  There's nothing obvious about what I said, and it comes from personal experience in business.


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## satanoperca (22 October 2018)

Really, I ask you GB to provide a solution/suggest a solution and all you have to reply is that I put people off, I actually thought you were better than this.

We are not Joe's customers, Joe has built a platform and environment to interact and communicate.

Think about it


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## Gringotts Bank (22 October 2018)

satanoperca said:


> Really, I ask you GB to provide a solution/suggest a solution and all you have to reply is that I put people off, I actually thought you were better than this.
> 
> We are not Joe's customers, Joe has built a platform and environment to interact and communicate.
> 
> Think about it




It's Joe's business.  He owns it, runs it and has money tied up in it.  If it folded tomorrow, I won't lose a minute of sleep, and you won't either .... but someone will.  That makes him (Joe) the leader.  He sets the tone for the whole operation by his actions and words, and by the layout/style of the forum.

My solutions were plainly stated.  *One:* don't ever admit things aren't going well.  Tell your mentors, wife and accountant, but not your customers.  *Two:* work on your personal energy.  If there's low energy, nothing works.  The ways to work on energy can take a lot of investigation as there can be a  multitude of reasons why someone might feel off their game.  Could be as simple as exercising more.  Could be as complicated as flying north for the winter to escape the cold.  People are attracted to vibrant leaders.

I've been in the same situation where it's like "what the f is going on?  Why is business dropping?"  And I'd try implementing a million different things to create the desired change.  In the end it was all about me and my energy.  That's where it all starts.  All solutions just flow naturally from that point, so nothing specific needs to be suggested about the website layout or moderation.


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## Garpal Gumnut (22 October 2018)

OK for all you whingers out there I'll tell you how to use ASF.

1. Post regularly on stock, economic or general chat forums, to get the vibe.
2. Read the answers.
3. Read the answers.
4. Do a search on your favourite poster, mine are that silly shoveller Tech/A and Wayne/L. Download all their posts and read them . Pure Gold
5. Go back to 1.

gg


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## satanoperca (22 October 2018)

GG, What is a solution or part of a solution to change things?

Can you respond in one simple sentence? Keep it simple and sweet. I am simple


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## Parse (22 October 2018)

Joe Blow said:


> If I could ask everyone reading this thread one question it would be just that: what would make you post more? If I knew the answer to that question ASF's problems would be over very quickly indeed.




More posts in the stock threads 

Actually I like greggles posts with current news on stocks and then sometimes barney or someone will comment on the post. So I start thinking maybe I could ask something here, but then, that stock has already gone quiet.....

Don't get me wrong, I fully enjoy reading greggles and barney's posts in the stock threads, it's just a shame a discussion doesn't continue.


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## satanoperca (22 October 2018)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> 4. Do a search on your favourite poster, mine are that silly shoveller Tech/A and Wayne/L. Download all their posts and read them . Pure Gold
> gg




This is pure gold, well with acceptance of horse lovers, tongue in cheek. Wayne does does provide great insight into investing and trading, his political beliefs are best left for GC


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## Value Hunter (23 October 2018)

If there is one change I want to see above all else is that on thehone page get rid of all non investment related topics.

Only investment related topics should be allowed on the “recent posts” or “trending topics”, etc lists. Only investment related threads should be visible on the home page.

General chat, etc would still exist but you would have to actually click on the sub forum to see any of the posts. It would not be visible on the home page. This would mean anytime somebody goes to the home page only investment related topics are hitting them in the face. This would encourage people to read and post on these investment threads.

Just like how newspapers strategically chose which stories are front page worthy the website admin here should provide some kind of filtering for what makes the front (home) page.

Also rather than just imploring people to post more about stocks, Joe could set an example by making it his mission to research stocks and make one stock related post per day. This would help stimulate discussion.

Also another suggestion is that Joe could put up a “hall of fame” section on the front page to highlight threads that he thinks are very high quality and relevant.


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## SirRumpole (23 October 2018)

Joe Blow said:


> I won't give you the "it's too difficult to do" excuse. Instead I'll give you the "it's too expensive to do" excuse. I haven't checked the price recently but licensed content from the ASX is incredibly expensive. They do not distinguish on the basis of website size (i.e. traffic). It is a very high monthly fee that in my view is out of all proportion and entirely unreasonable.




What about articles that don't come from the ASX , ie reputable financial journals or writers ?

Once they have been published they can be quoted and linked to. A bot that trawls these sources and posts relevant articles would be useful.


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## tech/a (23 October 2018)

satanoperca said:


> So provide a solution or potential solution or part of a solution, you just state the obvious.
> You sound like ever other self help guru on the internet, provide your opinion without any direction.
> Joe is trying to build a community, he is not the leader, just the facilitator that gets us all together




I think this should be directed to everyone.

It’s like opportunity 
Most of us can see it
Few know what to do with it
Hardly anyone does something!



Gringotts Bank said:


> This is the sort of **** posting that puts people off.  There's nothing obvious about what I said, and it comes from personal experience in business.




It’s not GG. I’ve been chatting with Joe off line for 12 mths.
It’s not an easy topic——Joes business is unique to yours AND mine.

I’ve cut back because of 2 things 

(1) Time
To do a decent post complete with chart takes 30 min to an Hr
I just don’t have the time —- hats off to guys like Pete.

(2) Very little response to posts so why bother?
These are trading type posts.

The biggest disappointment to me of ASF is the number of quality posters over the year who have been chased off.


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## Joe Blow (23 October 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> What about articles that don't come from the ASX , ie reputable financial journals or writers ?
> 
> Once they have been published they can be quoted and linked to. A bot that trawls these sources and posts relevant articles would be useful.




It's possible, although they would most likely have to be collated manually, rather than by a bot. Bots don't know good from bad, useful from useless.


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## SirRumpole (23 October 2018)

Joe Blow said:


> It's possible, although they would most likely have to be collated manually, rather than by a bot. Bots don't know good from bad, useful from useless.




The trick would be to stick to respected writers or journals.

I've just posted a couple of articles by Ross Gittins which might be useful. I'm sure there are other journos that could be searched for relevant articles.


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## basilio (23 October 2018)

Gringotts Bank said:


> It's Joe's business.  He owns it, runs it and has money tied up in it.  If it folded tomorrow, I won't lose a minute of sleep, and you won't either .... but someone will.  That makes him (Joe) the leader.  He sets the tone for the whole operation by his actions and words, and by the layout/style of the forum.
> 
> My solutions were plainly stated.  *One:* don't ever admit things aren't going well.  Tell your mentors, wife and accountant, but not your customers.  *Two:* work on your personal energy.  If there's low energy, nothing works.  The ways to work on energy can take a lot of investigation as there can be a  multitude of reasons why someone might feel off their game.  Could be as simple as exercising more.  Could be as complicated as flying north for the winter to escape the cold.  People are attracted to vibrant leaders.
> 
> I've been in the same situation where it's like "what the f is going on?  Why is business dropping?"  And I'd try implementing a million different things to create the desired change.  In the end it was all about me and my energy.  That's where it all starts.  All solutions just flow naturally from that point, so nothing specific needs to be suggested about the website layout or moderation.




I would offer a different perspective on this "business" Gringott.

Firstly as customers we don't actually pay money. We invest our time, interest and *expertise.  *The way Joe pays the bills is convincing advertisers he has a strong, interested bunch of investors who might buy into their products.

*In a very real sense we are the product. *Cultivating, nurturing, encouraging, pruning the product is the way to to grow the business. (Mind you I honestly can't see how Joe does more than pay the bills for ASF and make a bit of pocket money. I suspect its a labour of love.) In that context efforts to involve users in making ASF a better, more vibrant, constructive, more useful forum are win/win strategies.  If we don't buy into the deal we lose the forum as does Joe. 

I suppose the question we ask ourselves is "How much do we value ASF as a source of information, relationships and places to visit ? And if so how can we contribute to improving it? "


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## basilio (23 October 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> The trick would be to stick to respected writers or journals.
> 
> I've just posted a couple of articles by Ross Gittins which might be useful. I'm sure there are other journos that could be searched for relevant articles.




Good idea. As Joe points out bots can't do it only people. 
Probably like us..


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## Darc Knight (23 October 2018)

This Forum does have one of the best layouts I've encountered.


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## basilio (23 October 2018)

tech/a said:


> The biggest disappointment to me of ASF is the number of quality posters over the year who have been chased off.




That is the key point isn't it ? Without the posters who offer quality content ASF is  a shell. 
This conversation is around 
1)  Recognising and encouraging key current posters and perhaps older ones  who have left to  contribute to the forums.  I think this could be done in a formal way.
2) Ensuring the overall atmosphere on the forum doesn't become nasty to the point that people just get fed up/pissed off and walk.
There is another argument about Free Speech.  The Right to say what you want, and how you want to say it and let the pussies weep or run away. Often it's couched as just "fun".  Perhaps it's most "fun" when your on top of pile rather than underneath.

I remember in some other post someone saying that Whirpool mods are damn hot. Almost any abuse gets one ticked off or kicked off. Perhaps not good for "free Speech" but there zillions of people on it and it offers some great support/ideas/advice.


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## basilio (23 October 2018)

Value Hunter said:


> Also another suggestion is that Joe could put up a “hall of fame” section on the front page to highlight threads that he thinks are very high quality and relevant.




Good idea.  It could also be used to highlight old threads that have offered excellent advice. In itself it can be a way to attract and encourage new people to be involved.


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## basilio (23 October 2018)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> As you know in the past I have advocated for attention to large caps on ASF. All to no avail.




I think this is important. The fact is  the small caps are supposed to offer the  big opportunities. The reality is most of these oportunities aend up with the directors and promotors.

Having a focus on large caps and analysing how much strength the have now and into the future makes sense.

________________________________

On a personal note my chasing of small caps and specs has been spectacurely unsuccesful. I made a few  very good trades but in the end I should have just plumped my cash into the banks and stapped wasting my time trying to pick the next good thing and getting in and out at the right time. 

Obviously others do better than me. But I wonder how many do ?


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## jbocker (23 October 2018)

I recall in the past that the first half sentence was published in the listing, and having read it (giving me a hint of the subject) I would then often open the thread to get the rest of the message. This might be more useful than the acknowledgement of the thread starter and date.

When it opens it would be great to get straight to the latest comment, rather than scrolling from the top.

Now I have said that I am sure someone will point how to set the same.


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## barney (23 October 2018)

jbocker said:


> I recall in the past that the first half sentence was published in the listing, and having read it (giving me a hint of the subject) I would then often open the thread to get the rest of the message. This might be more useful than the acknowledgement of the thread starter and date.
> 
> When it opens it would be great to get straight to the latest comment, rather than scrolling from the top.
> 
> Now I have said that I am sure someone will point how to set the same.




There probably are ways of setting that up as a Users preference … but for me I agree with what you suggest … Have the layout like that from the get go "pre-tweeking" …… I accept however that I'm from a different era so tech tweeking is not my forte …… plug and play brigade


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## wayneL (23 October 2018)

satanoperca said:


> This is pure gold, well with acceptance of horse lovers, tongue in cheek. Wayne does does provide great insight into investing and trading, his political beliefs are best left for GC



Two points 

1/ My political beliefs *are* left for GC.

2/ That comment was probably not very cobstructive for this thread.


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## Logique (25 October 2018)

wayneL said:


> Two points
> 1/ *My political beliefs *are* left for GC*.
> 2/ That comment was probably not very cobstructive for this thread.



And unfailingly sensible they are too Wayne! 
Irrespective of the forum in which they might appear


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## Darc Knight (10 November 2018)

Not sure if I should've bumped this thread, but why aren't people contributing? Seems like the same names are doing it all. Kudos to those people, but given the number of members I'd expect more contributions.
Was there some sort of internal war here previously?


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## greggles (10 November 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> Not sure if I should've bumped this thread, but why aren't people contributing? Seems like the same names are doing it all. Kudos to those people, but given the number of members I'd expect more contributions.
> Was there some sort of internal war here previously?




I can't recall any war. I think the bottom line is that it's easy to read but harder to contribute. The vast majority of people who visit here are apparently content to read and remain passive. No idea why. It's a shame, but that's the way it is.


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## Ann (10 November 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> Not sure if I should've bumped this thread, but why aren't people contributing? Seems like the same names are doing it all. Kudos to those people, but given the number of members I'd expect more contributions.
> Was there some sort of internal war here previously?




Geez DK it is Saturday night and most folks are out doing the Saturday night thing. I work Saturday,  so I got home, got fed and now am slowly getting mellowed with a glass or two of wine and trawling ASF.


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## SirRumpole (10 November 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> Was there some sort of internal war here previously?




Yes, the "General Chat vs Stock Market" war.

People wanted the stock posts to dominate over General Chat, and they have got their wish.

Stock posts seem to be running about 5-10:1 over GC, so that's good isn't it ?


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## greggles (10 November 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Yes, the "General Chat vs Stock Market" war.




I wouldn't call it a war. I'd call it a puerile dummy spit. Adults acting like children, taking their bat and ball and going home because they couldn't get their way.


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## Darc Knight (10 November 2018)

greggles said:


> I can't recall any war. I think the bottom line is that it's easy to read but harder to contribute. The vast majority of people who visit here are apparently content to read and remain passive. No idea why. It's a shame, but that's the way it is.




It's as if 99. 9% of the Forum (members and lurkers) are passive investors, which they obviously aren't.


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## Darc Knight (11 November 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Yes, the "General Chat vs Stock Market" war.
> 
> People wanted the stock posts to dominate over General Chat, and they have got their wish.
> 
> Stock posts seem to be running about 5-10:1 over GC, so that's good isn't it ?




Yep, I caught the end of that, but more people would be lurking the stock posts than the GC posts I assume and just aren't contributing.
I'm a passive investor atm, but I still try to stay informed, and thus contribute my tiny amount.


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## Darc Knight (11 November 2018)

Ann said:


> Geez DK it is Saturday night and most folks are out doing the Saturday night thing. I work Saturday,  so I got home, got fed and now am slowly getting mellowed with a glass or two of wine and trawling ASF.




Hey, I have enuf women in my life giving me grief, I don't need another one 
P.S. Drs do recommend two bottles of Wine a night.


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## Smurf1976 (11 November 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> Not sure if I should've bumped this thread, but why aren't people contributing?



In my own case I'm somewhat absent from ASF due to some sudden family issues (parent - medical issues...... ) but I'll be back with the promised comments on my "big picture" approach to investing before too long.


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## SirRumpole (11 November 2018)

Smurf1976 said:


> In my own case I'm somewhat absent from ASF due to some sudden family issues (parent - medical issues...... ) but I'll be back with the promised comments on my "big picture" approach to investing before too long.




All the best for a satisfactory resolution Smurf.


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## Darc Knight (11 November 2018)

Perhaps everytime one of these Top posters like Tech, Barney, Greggles, Skate, Trav *and all the others* make a  Stock post we should all like their posts, just as some small thank you. 

I say the above as a passive investor who *doesn't* even use the Stock section, but who does realise the great contribution those good folk make.


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## tech/a (11 November 2018)

The best thanks people like Pete and the others mentioned in my view is discussion without confrontation.
It takes in some cases hours to do a meaningful post.

The last thing I feel like doing is posting to hostiles.
If you don’t agree enter into discussion putting up your view.

I and others may learn something.


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## Miner (12 November 2018)

Smurf1976 said:


> In my own case I'm somewhat absent from ASF due to some sudden family issues (parent - medical issues...... ) but I'll be back with the promised comments on my "big picture" approach to investing before too long.



Dear Smurf1976- travel safe on family journey and look forward your happy return to ASF


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## Darc Knight (13 November 2018)

I'm guessing my liking all the Stock Forum posters is becoming a bit disruptive and annoying, so in the words of Jeff Fenech I'll just say "I luv youse all"


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## tech/a (13 November 2018)

You guessed in correctly.
I like is a recognition that someone
has received some value from the post.

That I'm guessing is what most of us
like to see/want to achieve.


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## barney (13 November 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> I'm guessing my liking all the Stock Forum posters is becoming a bit disruptive and annoying, so in the words of Jeff Fenech I'll just say "I luv youse all"




 ….. I reckon @Darc Knight that the intent behind doing that was admirable and I'm going to give your post above a "like" to reflect that 

People obviously don't post to get "likes" but a bit of well intentioned encouragement creates a positive vibe and a positive vibe will certainly help @Joe Blow get things back on an even keel, so well done DK


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## Darc Knight (13 November 2018)

Liking all the Stock posts is actually a good way to learn. It forces you to read, or at least skim read the posts. So thanks!


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## tech/a (13 November 2018)

Must say its great to see some new guys and some of the
lets say more entrenched members posting more.
Miner,Barney,Greggles,Hawks,Ann,Barny,Duc,Sir Rumpy etal.

Im seeing a community evolving.

*Vote (1) Duck for Mayor!*


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## SirRumpole (13 November 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> Liking all the Stock posts is actually a good way to learn. It forces you to read, or at least skim read the posts. So thanks!




Liking a post doesn't necessarily mean that you agree with the content, but you appreciate the poster taking the time to post at all.

So good on everyone who does take the time to support the forum.


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## Darc Knight (13 November 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Liking a post doesn't necessarily mean that you agree with the content, but you appreciate the poster taking the time to post at all.
> 
> So good on everyone who does take the time to support the forum.




Cheers Rumpy!



I gotta say, not only are you all good posters but you are good people as well taking the time to post and reply. Thanks!


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## barney (13 November 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> Cheers Rumpy!
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta say, not only are you all good posters but you are good people as well taking the time to post and reply. Thanks!




Good onya DK ….. I'm sure @Joe Blow is very pleased to have posters like you on the register


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## Darc Knight (27 November 2018)

Sad to see a slow down of stock thread posts. I now things like global warming are important but I'd hate to see this Forum go the way of the Dodo.


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## sptrawler (27 November 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> Sad to see a slow down of stock thread posts. I now things like global warming are important but I'd hate to see this Forum go the way of the Dodo.



It's hard to suggest upside stock info, when the market could take a huge dive at any moment.
I personally would feel bad recommending anything, even though I have a few thoughts.
The chat on global warming, is only filler, untill the market gives a clear indication of direction. IMO


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## PZ99 (28 November 2018)

What we really need is an ETF that tracks the temps. Something like ASX:HOT

Then all those charts can be analysed more accurately


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## Darc Knight (28 November 2018)

Don't get me wrong, I like @basilio and @Ann and do think Bas does a good job addressing some social issues which  haven't got their own voice, and Ann is a great contributor, it's just I think this is a very good Forum (and Joe a very good Admin) and it would be a terrible shame for it to collapse due to a lack of stock posts. If only I was half as smart as you guys and could contribute more - still got my training wheels on.


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## Knobby22 (28 November 2018)

It's dangerous to buy now.
Also little news. So comments are down.


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## Ann (28 November 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> Don't get me wrong, I like @basilio and @Ann and do think Bas does a good job addressing some social issues which  haven't got their own voice, and Ann is a great contributor, it's just I think this is a very good Forum (and Joe a very good Admin) and it would be a terrible shame for it to collapse due to a lack of stock posts. If only I was half as smart as you guys and could contribute more - still got my training wheels on.




Well DK, you won't be hearing from me for a while except maybe some art. I have a fairly bad case of concussion after tripping and hitting my face against a wall at work yesterday in front of all the other managers YAY! Faceplant Annie. Warning folks don't, walk upstairs with your hands in your pockets. With concussion it appears one is not allowed to think! (? Sure, I will just stop thinking for a while, you try it folks). Also no reading or TV or computers. However it doesn't matter I have solved the mystery of all this Global Warming bullsh!t so no need to think any more about that. I will let you all into the cause on my return. Just a little teaser.....my next poster will read 'Vegetarians cause Global Warming!"


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## Ann (28 November 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> Bas does a good job addressing some social issues which haven't got their own voice, and Ann is a great contributor



Geez I do have a serious case of concussion not picking up this priceless line from DK!


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## basilio (28 November 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> Don't get me wrong, I like @basilio and @Ann and do think Bas does a good job addressing some social issues which  haven't got their own voice, and Ann is a great contributor, it's just I think this is a very good Forum (and Joe a very good Admin) and it would be a terrible shame for it to collapse due to a lack of stock posts. If only I was half as smart as you guys and could contribute more - still got my training wheels on.




Thanks for the comments Darc.  

Unfortunately I think it is far harder to *continue* to make worthwhile analysis of shares and stock market directions than just go back and forth on  Religion, Terrorists, House prices  and Global warming. After one has brought up particular stock prospects  what else can you meaningfully say ?

If people do start to just rabbit on about particular stocks it is usually a sign of ramping or poor judgement.  Check out Hot Copper as an example. As SP and Knobby point out the stock market is in a very uneasy place at the moment. There is far more downside risk than upside and if the market does  take a dive it is almost certain everything will go down - even allegedly quality shares. Maybe the most  valuable discussion could be along the lines of how defensive one should go with their investments.


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## basilio (28 November 2018)

Ann said:


> Well DK, you won't be hearing from me for a while except maybe some art. I have a fairly bad case of concussion after tripping and hitting my face against a wall at work yesterday in front of all the other managers YAY! Faceplant Annie. Warning folks don't, walk upstairs with your hands in your pockets. With concussion it appears one is not allowed to think! (? Sure, I will just stop thinking for a while, you try it folks). Also no reading or TV or computers. However it doesn't matter I have solved the mystery of all this Global Warming bullsh!t so no need to think any more about that. I will let you all into the cause on my return. Just a little teaser.....my next poster will read 'Vegetarians cause Global Warming!"




Well that's tough Ann ! Take care of yourself with the concussion. I think it is a much underrated injury.

And yes.  I will be waiting with baited (sic) breath to see your analyis behind "Vegetarians cause Global Warming " 
Cheers


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## notting (28 November 2018)

I've given up on the globe so I enjoy the droughts, make great Biker weather.
Ooops.  I'm not into the non stock or economic related posts. Oh, but everything relates to economics even the environment. I also found some love for Mark Latham! Go One Nation!!
Market seems to be ready for a run into Christmas, it always seems to happen when everyone has given up.


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## Knobby22 (28 November 2018)

notting said:


> I've given up on the globe so I enjoy the droughts, make great Biker weather.
> Ooops.  I'm not into the non stock or economic related posts. Oh, but everything relates to economics even the environment. I also found some love for Mark Latham! Go One Nation!!
> Market seems to be ready for a run into Christmas, it always seems to happen when everyone has given up.




Yea, imagine Mark Latham in Parliament again. what a nasty piece of work.
He will go down as one of the largest rats in Labor history equalled only by Billy Hughes and they will hate him every day he is back. only NSW parliament though.


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## Logique (30 November 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> I'm guessing my *liking all the Stock Forum posters* is becoming a bit disruptive and annoying, so in the words of Jeff Fenech I'll just say "I luv youse all"



Not a bit of it. Like away mate, ignore the cynics


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## barney (30 November 2018)

Ok ...so I've had a couple of beers and maybe a bourbon and coke ….  but it has given me an idea

I once started what I deemed as my "own thread" given my interest in FX trading called "Barney's Ballsups" …. catchy title I thought … The thread was actually useful for me and a few others seemed to enjoy the banter, so …..  

My suggestion here in *re-invigorating ASF *is ……. 


What if *all and sundry long standing members here at ASF*  ….. *


STARTED THEIR OWN THREAD *on whatever they choose or wish to talk about/discuss .. 

*
AND *

*
POST AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK ON THAT THREAD *(even if no one has responded lol)


Personally, I am interested in other Members likes/dislikes/trading accomplishments good or bad/even personal issues/problems in general/ways to make a million bucks without trying etc etc (the last one I am really interested in  lol ...

So basically ….I reckon personal input is often way more interesting than generic posting … so my challenge for other Members is to ….. *"HAVE A SAY" ….AND ….. POST on YOUR OWN THREAD.*

*I suspect the feedback will likely be a lot more positive than you may think ….* Cheers all


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## Darc Knight (30 November 2018)

barney said:


> Ok ...so I've had a couple of beers and maybe a bourbon and coke ….  but it has given me an idea
> 
> I once started what I deemed as my "own thread" given my interest in FX trading called "Barney's Ballsups" …. catchy title I thought … The thread was actually useful for me and a few others seemed to enjoy the banter, so …..
> 
> ...




I like this idea Barney. Whilst I'm still a learner I've been thinking of starting my own thread where I'll post summaries of what I've been learning from my investing books, Uni notes and various websites. Cheers to you too good Sir (as I finish a second Wine)


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## barney (1 December 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> I like this idea Barney. Whilst I'm still a learner I've been thinking of starting my own thread where I'll post summaries of what I've been learning from my investing books, Uni notes and various websites. Cheers to you too good Sir (as I finish a second Wine)




  …… Cheers DK …… 

Absolutely start your own thread …. Personal threads/journeys are not only interesting to other punters ..... but they can help the writer sort out their own trading style and problems

Putting things down in black and white helps make us more accountable for our decisions …. Whether those decisions are right or wrong is of little importance in the learning phase… it just means we become more aware of their importance for the future ….

In a nutshell … go for it


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## ducati916 (1 December 2018)

barney said:


> …… Cheers DK ……
> 
> Absolutely start your own thread …. Personal threads/journeys are not only interesting to other punters ..... but they can help the writer sort out their own trading style and problems
> 
> ...




I think that this is a good idea.

I saw this thread a while back, but didn't really think too much of it initially. However, scrolling through the threads [recent] and there are a [significant] number of non-trading threads. Nothing unduly wrong with that, I even participated on one a little while back.

The advantage for your own trading thread is that it makes trading decisions accountable and when [if] you break your rules/system, it is there in public view. This in the longer term will help your trading. Everyone wants to post 'X' and see 'X' eventuate. Of course very often 'Y' happens. This is inevitable when trading. It is your plan to deal with 'Y' that is important. Of course, so is 'X'. If you have a valid 'X', over time 'X' predominates over 'Y' and the result are '$'.

Generally you get to '$' far more quickly with accurate attribution. Your own thread is one of any number of ways to achieve this.

jog on
duc


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## tech/a (1 December 2018)

I have thought about this a little lately
Looking for topics I think I can help with and 
Ones that members can benefit from.
I’d prefer to post in the members only section.
I want Joe to gain more members and if my posts
Add to that then —— Job done. 

Time is an issue and one of the topics needs time and
Accuracy 
—-Topic —— “Making and managing a watchlist “
Haven’t seen anything like this on the boards.

Talking about substantial sums of $s tends to alienate people.

But as Barney says everyone wants Financial Security.
Having achieved that some 26 yrs ago and the magic $ amount 
Multiple times I think I can talk on this topic with experience
Candor and practicality. Everyone in this country can do it.
—-Topic ——- “ How to make your Million “
Or 
“Financial security in your lifetime” 
Which can happen without having a million or more.
Mind you a lot more fun if you do.

Don’t have time for both at once.
Opinions?


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## ducati916 (1 December 2018)

tech/a said:


> I have thought about this a little lately
> Looking for topics I think I can help with and
> Ones that members can benefit from.
> I’d prefer to post in the members only section.
> ...




tech,

I have noticed [because I tend to read them] a couple of day-trading threads. One of which I noticed ran into a low win%.

As to your suggestion re. watchlist and management, very important for day-traders. When I day traded I had a feed that provided stocks that were to report news intra-day. I would trade those stocks that then moved on news. The news tended [in the short term] to set up a price trend that could be traded. You may have [probably have] a different methodology. The important point however is: not how you trade [set-ups, this you should already have on lock] but rather what you trade [catalyst for momentum of an indeterminate length].

There are obviously other variables that go into trade selection management, but you have identified one that does not seem to be discussed overmuch.

jog on
duc


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## barney (1 December 2018)

tech/a said:


> I have thought about this a little lately
> 
> —-Topic ——- “ How to make your Million “ Or “Financial security in your lifetime”
> 
> ...





Tech ... You are a busy beaver ..... and probably don't have the time nor inclination to start another thread where you feel the need to post lots of technical information and get bogged down in a "lack of response" (not that punters aren't appreciating your input, but rather I know you would appreciate more involvement/interaction from the punters in general)

My idea of a @tech/a personal thread would be like a Blog style of posting where ...

You make a comment (whatever you feel like at the time) ... tell the punters why you made that comment/how you dealt with the circumstances either trading wise or personally wise and see what banter evolves from that (*right from your early days when you had bugger all to now!*)

Interaction/communication and learning from anyone's personal thread would be fantastic and I think *there are a multitude of ASF Members who have "stories" to tell which could ignite some great conversation.*

Thoughts??


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## Joe Blow (1 December 2018)

Thanks for the support everyone. I'm grateful for any meaningful contributions at all, whether they be personal trading or investing threads or threads on interesting trading or investing topics that end up generating valuable discussion and debate. There have been many at ASF over the years and I'm sure there are many more to come. All contributions are encouraged and appreciated. Just join in and participate in whatever way feels comfortable.

As barney said, "go for it".


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## Logique (2 December 2018)

I don't know why there is a Private Members Forum - really welcoming to new posters

I refuse to post in it.


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## SirRumpole (2 December 2018)

Logique said:


> I don't know why there is a Private Members Forum - really welcoming to new posters
> 
> I refuse to post in it.




As I understand the "Members Forum" is only available to registered users.

Those not signed up would not be able to post in any forum I believe.


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## tech/a (2 December 2018)

Logique said:


> I don't know why there is a Private Members Forum - really welcoming to new posters
> 
> I refuse to post in it.




I like it.
If you want to access some of the better topics and 
Threads you should become a member. It’s free.
More members mean a stronger forum 
Stronger forum means Joe and ASF look more 
Attractive to advertisers. 
Which means you have a forum.


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## mcgrath111 (4 December 2018)

I think the difficulty of reinvigorating ASF is keeping knowledgeable posters active. How this can be done, I have no idea 

Looking back at the members I follow, less than half still actively post - it was arguably these members that kept me coming back regularly. 
Newer members will develop and gain an understanding into equities, derivatives, fx etc. however the knowledge/ understanding that some members can provide is far beyond what I or the majority of members could provide.


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## Darc Knight (9 December 2018)

Sunday mornings are bad for me due to interpersonal interactions over the weekend, but they remind me of something. I believe in help and protect good people and punish bad people - the World needs more good people. 
My interactions with Joe lead me to believe he's a pretty good Bloke and this Forum is a good Forum and it deserves support.

The above isn't brown nosing, neither is it pure self intetest as I can learn elsewhere and have a tonne of stuff to study.

Rant over atm lol


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## Miner (9 December 2018)

Ann said:


> Well DK, you won't be hearing from me for a while except maybe some art. I have a fairly bad case of concussion after tripping and hitting my face against a wall at work yesterday in front of all the other managers YAY! Faceplant Annie. Warning folks don't, walk upstairs with your hands in your pockets. With concussion it appears one is not allowed to think! (? Sure, I will just stop thinking for a while, you try it folks). Also no reading or TV or computers. However it doesn't matter I have solved the mystery of all this Global Warming bullsh!t so no need to think any more about that. I will let you all into the cause on my return. Just a little teaser.....my next poster will read 'Vegetarians cause Global Warming!"



Sorry @Ann  to have missed your posting this thread being subscribed but not linked with all postings. Now i did so.
Hope you are well and fitter now.
With a hope you are better now I would feel less guilty otherwise thinking, you hit your head on the wall after reading my actions on FAR  (Just trying to cheer you and not mocking at all ).


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## Miner (9 December 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> Sunday mornings are bad for me due to interpersonal interactions over the weekend, but they remind me of something. I believe in help and protect good people and punish bad people - the World needs more good people.
> My interactions with Joe lead me to believe he's a pretty good Bloke and this Forum is a good Forum and it deserves support.
> 
> The above isn't brown nosing, neither is it pure self intetest as I can learn elsewhere and have a tonne of stuff to study.
> ...



@Darc Knight 
I concur your comments on Joe. 
He is a passionate man and reads probably all of our messages, responds PM. I do like him immensely of the tasks he does including two infractions he issued in the first year or two of me joining this ASF. Good actions are always recognised to put people on track. 
@Joe Blow  Now we need to see your real photo than God Father's one as we are not mafias and you are supposedly not the Mafia Don either


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## Ann (9 December 2018)

Miner said:


> Sorry @Ann  to have missed your posting this thread being subscribed but not linked with all postings. Now i did so.
> Hope you are well and fitter now.
> With a hope you are better now I would feel less guilty otherwise thinking, you hit your head on the wall after reading my actions on FAR  (Just trying to cheer you and not mocking at all ).




Thanks Miner, I am struggling a bit. I come on here for a minute and then I get sucked into stuff when I should be resting. There are a lot of FARs around. I just had a swing at PO3 if you missed that. I may be 100% off target with it because I am really ragged now with trying to do fundie stuff. It seriously does hurt my head, I am not supposed to be doing that as the doc said any activity causing pain in my brain can damage my recovery.


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## SirRumpole (9 December 2018)

Ann said:


> Thanks Miner, I am struggling a bit. I come on here for a minute and then I get sucked into stuff when I should be resting. There are a lot of FARs around. I just had a swing at PO3 if you missed that. I may be 100% off target with it because I am really ragged now with trying to do fundie stuff. It seriously does hurt my head, I am not supposed to be doing that as the doc said any activity causing pain in my brain can damage my recovery.




Take it easy and don't worry about climate change too much.

Not that you do anyway. 

(That's not meant to be taken seriously, I enjoy your posts on all topics).


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## Miner (9 December 2018)

Ann said:


> Thanks Miner, I am struggling a bit. I come on here for a minute and then I get sucked into stuff when I should be resting. There are a lot of FARs around. I just had a swing at PO3 if you missed that. I may be 100% off target with it because I am really ragged now with trying to do fundie stuff. It seriously does hurt my head, I am not supposed to be doing that as the doc said any activity causing pain in my brain can damage my recovery.



Hey @Ann 
Just take it easy, chill out and return to normal sooner to enjoy Chrisy with family and friends. 
Cheers


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