# Courses/Seminars - Are they worth the Money?



## Bob Westfield (29 December 2004)

Hello, 

Being new at the game I wonder if you'd like to share your thoughts on "Share Courses / Seminars". Which do you avoid? Which presenters are worth spending some money on? Why?

Thanks for your replies in adavance!

Bob


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## tech/a (29 December 2004)

You need to answer a number of questions(to yourself) before even attempting to select a course of study.

(1) How much do you have to trade $$$s--this will help determine your timeframe.
(2) What do you wish to achieve from your trading.(a living,an extra income,a side line?).
(3) What do you have at your disposal to assist you with your trading.Software, reports,Testing software.Books etc.
(4) How much time are you prepared to put into your apprenticeship?
(5)What do you expect from any training or study?(Result)
(6) What are you prepared to pay for study.$1000 a year or $10000 a year?
This is linked to the above (1) to (5).
(7) How much time when your capable do you intend to put into trading?
(All day,half a day, a few hrs,30 mins a day?) 

Once you answer these questions youll be in more of a position to evaluate that which is available.While we maybe able to point you in the right direction.
Everyone is different yet all have the same goal----to be profitable.

tech


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## Bob Westfield (29 December 2004)

Thank you Tech,

maybe I can give you some idea of where I'm at:
1) Minimal, I'm saving for a home loan. But I realise that an education takes money and am not fishing for freebies.
2) Whilst being serious about any business venture, I'm not expecting millions overnight - I'll stick with a sideline at this point.
3)At the moment - nothing apart from a willingness to learn, a great local Library and an even better relationship with the owner of a local bookshop 
4) Time, well that's at a premium. I work between 8.30 and 5.00, so anytime between those hours I s'pose. Timeframe wise, I'm in no rush, so years is the answer. I've spent years learning business skills in other ventures, so expect the same here.
5) I expect an understanding of the game, to be able to read the numbers and understand them.
6) I'm in no rush... so a little here and there. I would presume that as my ability to recognise good deals increases I would also be able to re-invest my profits into education. To answer the question, little less now, more later.
7) as per #4 above - anytime between 17.00 and 08.30... realiastically about 90 minutes a day

Thoughts?


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## RichKid (29 December 2004)

Hey Bob,
Your library (point 3) sounds like the best place. Also try the other posts in the Beginners lounge, well worth a few hours of reading IMO for book references and tips on starting out.

Also, Tech is bound to having you thinking deep and hard before long...

Good luck!


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## tech/a (29 December 2004)

Ok.

As your working through the day day trading and very short term trading will be out(and thats a good thing in my veiw particularly when on "L" plates!).

So Youll be EOD end of day.

With limited funds youll be best to pick even one stock and trade that.
If you can afford it add $50 a week to your pool of trading funds to get a second prospect.
Id trade around $3k a stock min.

Youll certaintly need to know what Im running through on the Thread about being profitable.

For you Super tight stops 5% of initial purchase and dont be too keen to dump a winning stock.

I cant tell you what to trade Im not qualified,but have the proven experience,where as most who are qualified dont have any practical trading experience let alone proven.
Strange that like flying with a pilot whos only ever listened to other experienced pilots and correctly answered their questions(IE completed a theorhetical pilots course).

Hope this helps wouldnt spend months on the path of knowledge it really is as simple as having a positive expectancy trading methodology.

tech


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## Jett_Star (17 January 2005)

NO I DON'T THINK THEY ARE

I agree with the others... be prepared to invest some of your time here and you will have saved yourself a lot of time and money.


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## crashy (17 January 2005)

well you COULD try and learn everything a course would teach you in your own time, learning from many costly mistakes, OR you could learn from others.

time IS money. the time you waste learning things by yourself is better spent working. 

which is better:

a. spend one week trying to figure out X x Y = Z

or

b. spend 2 days at work so that you can pay for a course that will teach you X x Y = Z in 1 hour.

option a takes 7 days.

option b takes 2 days 1 hour.


if you cannot figure out that option b is better, I doubt you would be able to learn much anyway......


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## ghotib (18 January 2005)

crashy said:
			
		

> well you COULD try and learn everything a course would teach you in your own time, learning from many costly mistakes, OR you could learn from others.
> 
> time IS money. the time you waste learning things by yourself is better spent working.
> 
> ...



UNLESS: 

* You're so stuffed from the 2 days working that you miss a critical 2 minutes in the 1 hour course and you can't make sense of any of it 2 days later. 

OR

* You need to know about Q R and S before you can work with X Y and Z and you don't find that out till you've paid your money. 

OR

* You need all 7 days of your crap wage to pay your HECS debt and even if you can only spend half and hour a day learning that X x Y = Z that's still less than 3 months, which is peanuts in the overall scheme of things.

Libraries are excellent places for learning from others and avoiding costly mistakes like crap 1 hour courses.


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## GreatPig (18 January 2005)

crashy said:
			
		

> which is better:
> 
> a. spend one week trying to figure out X x Y = Z
> 
> ...



From my personal experience of professional courses in general (ie. not share trading ones, as I've never done one), I find I can learn things a _lot_ quicker by studying them myself.

This is however dependant on there being plenty of good material available for self-study, as I think there is with share trading. I find the main advantage of a course is the ability to ask questions if I don't understand something. And with forums like this available these days, that's not always such a big issue either.

In general I find courses tend to go either very slowly or cover stuff I'm not particularly interested in, as they usually have to cater for a number of people with different levels of knowledge and speeds of understanding. And due to their often tight schedules, it can be difficult to get them to expand much on anything even if you don't understand something.

So I favour self-study by far. And if I do want to do a course, then I like to have read up on the topic first to know as much about it as I can before going. That way I'm in a position to get the most from it.

Mind you, I studied at university for five years and just about anything seems slow compared to some of those courses .

Cheers,
GP


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## crashy (18 January 2005)

tech/a said:
			
		

> As your working through the day day trading and very short term trading will be out(and thats a good thing in my veiw particularly when on "L" plates!).
> 
> So Youll be EOD end of day.




rather a big assuption dont you think? not everyone wants to TRADE you know. believe it or not most people INVEST. he said nothing about trading. And since 97% of traders go broke, it would surely be better to encourage newbies NOT to trade, rather than to encourage them to get into it.



			
				tech/a said:
			
		

> I cant tell you what to trade Im not qualified,but have the proven experience,where as most who are qualified dont have any practical trading experience let alone proven.




who are you referring to?

so you should be able to tell him what to trade?


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## tech/a (18 January 2005)

Crashy.

Your hell bent on sticking my head up my own cavity.

*Spell out your problem* Stop littering this site with your childish totally unprofessional petty knit picking.

If youve got an opinion professional or othewise voice it rather than sitting in your high chair beating your fists like a spoilt brat.

Other than options(which you had a high distinction in!)Ive not seen one piece of informative interaction with any members here.

Oh and all of us who have posted our Hot Picks and Selections can expect a visit from ASIC.

*If youve made your first million in asset or otherwise Ill donate $1000 to Red Cross.(Your own home not included.)*

Stop attempting to stick it up someone who has!!

Get over it!


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## crashy (18 January 2005)

"Your hell bent on sticking my head up my own cavity."

not really. you do a perfectly fine job of that yourself.

"Spell out your problem Stop littering this site with your childish totally unprofessional petty knit picking."

I thought I made myself clear. perhaps you have some kind of impairment. I asked you to stop behaving in an egotistical and arrogant manner. 

"If youve got an opinion professional or othewise voice it rather than sitting in your high chair beating your fists like a spoilt brat."

Now maybe its just me, but it looks like the person flying off the deep end, calling people "idiots" or "precious" or some other childish insult and using phrases like "pierce off"......who fits that description I wonder? The same person who claims to be mature and professional and accuses others of acting that way. Hypocracy gone mad. Back up your BS claims. Show me a post where I have acted in an unprofessional or childish manner. I can show you about 10 of yours.

"Other than options(which you had a high distinction in!)Ive not seen one piece of informative interaction with any members here."

well heres a few:

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2693&postcount=9
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5249&postcount=11
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3588&postcount=4
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4467&postcount=24
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5105&postcount=1

The sooner you get rid of that chip on your shoulder the better (oh poor me, Im so fantastic but cant get any recognition, worship me, adore me, praise me.....PLEASE)


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## doctorj (18 January 2005)

To drag this topic back on track while I'm sitting here very disenchanted with the result of AZR's announcement...

I guess the answer to your question lies in what style of learner you are.  Some learn better by having the theory explained to them and then doing, others work better by learning bits at a time and applying each new bit as you go.

Obviously, dealing with what can be large sums of money makes the second approach restrictive.  However, if, like me, it is the way you learn best I suggest paper trading for a while.  Pick up a book, work through it slowly and attempt to identify current real-life examples of the theory.  Add these stocks to a watchlist and see how the theory applies to real life.  As the weeks and even months of paper trading pass you will learn

1) The application of fundamental and technical theory
2) Whether you err towards fundamentals, technical analysis or a hybrid
3) What levels of risk you are comfortable with
4) How to let your profits run and cut losses
5) The probability that no matter how much theory you learn, you're still trading at the right hand edge of a chart and can't predict the future
6) The beginning of a trading plan
7) The likelihood that you will be profitable

If you take this approach, I would encourage you to set trade sizes similar to what you expect to have when you begin trading and to do it with the mindset that it is _real_ money such that your decisions are not altered.

Sure, this approach takes time and the arguement that time=money is certainly valid.  That said, whether you take this approach or a course at the end of it, you're going to end up trading with real hard earned money.  With this in mind, the approach you take should be geared towards preparing yourself for that first buy decision.


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## Tric (19 January 2005)

geez guys, what agendas are going on here, you sound like you just logged off from HC

...think you'll have to join me on a girls night out with all that nitpicking   

on a serious note, I think tech/a's response was quite spot on and concise here:



> by *tech/a:* You need to answer a number of questions(to yourself) before even attempting to select a course of study.
> 
> (1) How much do you have to trade $$$s--this will help determine your timeframe.
> (2) What do you wish to achieve from your trading.(a living,an extra income,a side line?).
> ...


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## tech/a (19 January 2005)

Ive decided Crashy has the problem so he can have it on his own.

*Joe suggests I place him on my ignore list---done.*

To everyone else thanks for the unprecidented worship,copious gifts,private messages of praise.To our UK members the MBE was nice.
Im very much looking forward to picking up my Nobel Peace Prize.

tech


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## crashy (19 January 2005)

I can just imagine how that conversation went:

"Joe, this _precious idiot_ wont let me strut my stuff. Whenever I make a vailed childish insult he asks me to elaborate. Urgh can you believe it! When I fly off the deep end I acuse him of being the immature one, and he doesnt let me win! Instead he acts professional and calm despite my best efforts to aggravate him. I cant take it anymore! Its not fair! 
I keep trying to tell everyone he has nothing smart to say, in the hope that people will tolerate my ego in exchange for the info I provide, but darn it they arent buying it.
I should be able to chest beat, fire insults and be arrogant cos Im the best trader here and can prove it. Thats the way it is and to hell with anyone who finds that offensive....OK?!"

and Joes response:

"tech, you cant beat him because he is right about you. So for the good of the forum just put him on ignore, that way you dont throw tantrums and disrupt the forum...ok?"


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## RichKid (19 January 2005)

Well, whatever happens I hope both you guys continue on the forums (despite the personal banter). It's a case of two strong personalities. Personally, I welcome both views just as long as it's on thread, so as a forum member I find this informative. 
Reminds me of Stefan and TechA when Tech first started but now they get along so there's hope for you two yet...


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## RichKid (19 January 2005)

As for courses, I have mentioned this elsewhere, see the ASX website for free and paid courses which are very reasonable. They also have a series of books produced by the ASX. Subscribe to their newsletter for lots of tips and news. I haven't done the course but I think it's a good place to start if you really want to go for one to start you off.


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## idribble (19 January 2005)

Bob Westfield.  Books and seminars will not cover (perhaps not even allude to it!) the lesson Tech/a has kindly presented on this forum.  WayneL is more than a worthy contributor too, and as I've suggested previously, read Kahuna1 posts on Sharescene.

crashy, I'll be blowed if I can see arrogance in any of Tech/a's posts.  What I do see is an extremely knowledgeable person willing to share that knowledge.  Hope I don't offend you crashy, but I read your crap years ago on HC, no substance, no nothing!  

Tech/a, a little advice.  You cannot win an argument against a fool.


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## Jett_Star (19 January 2005)

If only it were that easy.... X x Y = Z


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## RichKid (20 January 2005)

idribble said:
			
		

> Bob Westfield.  Books and seminars will not cover (perhaps not even allude to it!) the lesson Tech/a has kindly presented on this forum.  WayneL is more than a worthy contributor too, and as I've suggested previously, read Kahuna1 posts on Sharescene.
> 
> crashy, I'll be blowed if I can see arrogance in any of Tech/a's posts.  What I do see is an extremely knowledgeable person willing to share that knowledge.  Hope I don't offend you crashy, but I read your crap years ago on HC, no substance, no nothing!
> 
> Tech/a, a little advice.  You cannot win an argument against a fool.




Whether Tech or Crashy is right or wrong is irrelevent if we start calling each other names, I thought Joe said he wont allow name calling, this one and some other posts must have slipped by. I'm happy to see Tech's posts but that is no excuse for being so hard on another member who has tried to contribute, I for one have found Crashy's posts very helpful, especially the psychology threads and reminders that not all investors/traders will understand some of the tougher explanations.
These forums sure have become more heated in the last two months.


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