# The General Chat forum at ASF



## Joe Blow (1 February 2015)

The dominance of the General Chat forum at ASF continues to be a controversial issue and I have started this thread to gauge the sentiment of ASF members.

Please vote in the poll above and feel free to post in this thread and let me know how you feel about the General Chat forum.

I want to better understand how people feel about the overwhelming volume of posts in the General Chat forum with a view to possibly placing restrictions on it should it be serving to diminish ASF as a stock market forum.


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## SirRumpole (1 February 2015)

Joe Blow said:


> The dominance of the General Chat forum at ASF continues to be a controversial issue and I have started this thread to gauge the sentiment of ASF members.
> 
> Please vote in the poll above and feel free to post in this thread and let me know how you feel about the General Chat forum.
> 
> I want to better understand how people feel about the overwhelming volume of posts in the General Chat forum with a view to possibly placing restrictions on it should it be serving to diminish ASF as a stock market forum.




That's democracy for you Joe 

If people are interested in stocks, they will post there, but there are other things going on in the world.


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## So_Cynical (1 February 2015)

General should be strictly limited to broad single topic threads, as i suggested a couple of years ago, 1 thread for each broad topic same as the real estate thread and then moderated by moving any new threads into the main thread.

As happened for a while with the political party threads.


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## Smurf1976 (1 February 2015)

I don't see a link between removing / restricting the General Chat forum and an increase in stock-related posts. That is, I don't see that one competes with the other.

If anything, removing General Chat might actually reduce the number of stock-related posts. My thinking there is that those who wish to chat about politics, religion or whatever are going to do that _somewhere_. If the option to do so on ASF is no longer there, they'll simply go somewhere else. In some cases, that might mean they also stop visiting ASF to post about stocks.

My personal thought is that ASF would be better off with a broader financial focus if the aim is to attract new members and encourage more posts. That is, keep the stocks but encourage more discussion on other investment matters as well. 

In that context, I see "on topic" as being anything that can meet a simple test. Does the discussion relate to something in which someone can invest, or which has implications for their investments, or which at the very least relates to some other way in which an individual can earn money, manage it, or reduce their expenses? 

If it doesn't relate to anything financial then personally I wouldn't ban it, but I'd re-name "General Chat" to "Off Topic" as that makes it very clear to new visitors to ASF that threads in that section do not relate to the primary purpose of ASF. Many other online forums use that term for the same purpose.

For the record, there's another (not stock-related) forum that I frequent and the single biggest thread by far is in the off-topic section. And that thread is about, you guessed it, climate change / the carbon tax. I haven't personally made a single post in that thread on that forum but it's now 274 pages long and still going. Most other threads on that forum tend to be 1 to 5 pages.

As for the dominance of politics in the off-topic threads, I see that as a likely reflection of the reality that there is a (perceived or actual) link between financial matters and politics. The GFC became a mainstream political matter. Interest rates have been mainstream politics for decades. So too many other economic indicators have political links. If the ASX drops 50% over the next year then I'm sure we'll be hearing plenty about it during the next election campaign. In contrast, there is no such link between stocks or investing and gardening or plumbing. Hence we have plenty of political off-topic threads but very few relating to gardening, plumbing or how to fly an aeroplane.


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## pinkboy (1 February 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> That's democracy for you Joe
> 
> If people are interested in stocks, they will post there, but there are other things going on in the world.




The problem is between yourself, luutzu, bintang et al, there are several hundred posts similar in nature, buy going off different tangents. As soon as the topic goes on one of these tangents,  you guys start up another thread and continue.  Tonight's new thread is a perfect example, with several posts having the ability to slot right into the current few threads.

Now I don't usually get involved with politics or religion, but if I wanted to see these topics, I would search for forums on that nature. General chit chat fine, including a single thread for what you guys are discussing,  but new thread after new thread isn't conducive to share trading etc.

And before you say 'you don't have to read what you don't want to read', unfortunately this place has more political and religion threads coming up when you hit 'new posts'  than actual on topic threads.

pinkboy


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## Bintang (1 February 2015)

I can’t see what the problem is. It’s incredibly easy to avoid the General Chat section by not navigating there.
Once in the General Chat it is also incredibly easy to navigate out.

As Rumpole said “there are other things going on in the world” and sometimes they can be important to investment decisions just as much as the technicalities of the markets.

The activity in the General Chat section is a barometer of what issues are foremost in peoples minds at any particular time and I find that useful.


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## cynic (2 February 2015)

There are times when some members become just a little too liberal in the passionate expression of their opinions. Also, some threads appear to have become dominated by just a very few posters with strong attachments to deeply entrenched beliefs.

Instances such as these lead one to question the wisdom of offering alternative perspectives to certain matters under discussion. Although it can be delightfully comforting to find one's views met with full agreement, I seriously question the benefit of allowing threads to stagnate into something akin to the mutual appreciation club/society that certain threads have sadly become.

Despite the aforesaid, I remain particularly fond of the general chat section and the way it grants members the opportunity to freely share perspectives on the non-investment related aspects of their personal lives. As such I'd hate to even imagine ASF without it!


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## burglar (2 February 2015)

Hi Joe,
I am cool with chat!!


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## Bill M (2 February 2015)

The problem with general chat is that it is flooded with political and religious threads. Do we really need 5 different threads on Islam or Muslims? Do we really need a thread on every politician or every states liberal or labor party? When I go away for 6 hours or so and come back to my PC and click new posts the last thing I want to see 9 out 10 posts being on politics and religion. 

On another forum the forum owner had a good idea. He created a sub forum called "Bedlam". There was a warning that it was a no rules area and anything could be discussed. Don't not enter it if you are easily offended, it said. Perhaps we could have a similar sub forum for religion and politics. 

Put them in a sub forum well away from those who aren't interested in them and leave them out of the "new post" searches. Then those who really want to see and discuss these topics can go and view their sub forms anytime they like and have open and free banter between themselves.

I love general chat too, but not when it is heavily dominated by religion and politics.


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## SirRumpole (2 February 2015)

Maybe there is a way to flag threads as "religion" or "politics" or whatever and a way members can block these from their view. ?


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## Tisme (2 February 2015)

Instead of winding down the general discussion thread, it should be encouraged in my view. This will increase the forum's exposure and leakage into the stock threads. It's the same method car forums operate and many do very well with memberships and static advertising revenue.

I would work off the general discussion area by infusing generalised investment topics where impulse discussions can occur. This would provide a soft entry for those who would like to experiment, but were afraid to ask. Of course it would require some wise heads to keep the message simple albeit amongst the arguments that will and should occur.

It would be a pity to see the demise of all the ground work Noco (and others) has laid down in steering us all from the path of Labor perdition to one of Liberal redemption.  

The three discussion taboos of religion, sex and politics combined with money are the aphrodisiacs of the human race. Sex was obviously not enough, thus the invention of the other three. 

My only asks are that personal attacks be considered, instead favouring good humour and avoiding the so easy snide and superior mocking commentary that often surfaces here. As with the established conventions of discussion boards,  pursuing members across dissimilar threads be avoided (it's trolling, does not allow a reset and shuts down meaningful debate).


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## overhang (2 February 2015)

Personally it keeps me coming back.  I've been out of the share game for a few years as my capital is elsewhere, I still do like to read some of the stock related threads but the general forum is what I continue to come back for.  I feel its working quite well currently where the general forum posts don't appear in the recent posts on the home page, so any newcomer wouldn't be under the illusion that religion and politics are discussed heavily on this site and those that want to discuss it know where to find it.

I don't have a problem with the amount of religious or political threads but if it was an issue then maybe have sub forums within the general chat.


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## moXJO (2 February 2015)

General chat is just the 'kill time' area between trades. Just merge threads if they get to similar. As for the stock section, I personally prefer hotcoppers forum where I can see which stocks are trending. Click for click I seem to be hitting hotcopper to asf 4:1(sorry Joe). I don't think this site needs more sub-forums as it would be spreading posts a bit thin all round.


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## Ijustnewit (2 February 2015)

Firstly I must say I love stock tipping posts. It's a great idea and keeps me checking. However actual stock posts that are about a particular stock on appear on the radar when some radical news or results happen. After this they disappear again into hyperspace. I guess the same can be said for the Market and Commodities threads as well. It seems very few members rely on the very pulse of the market from minute to minute. 
Where as the general happenings in the World change in just seconds , and everyone has an opinion. I was born here from the Storm Financial Thread , I'm still here and enjoying it .


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## Joe Blow (2 February 2015)

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

I'm really just trying to gauge sentiment with this thread and if most people are happy with the way things are then I won't change anything.

Of course, it's always nice to see more posts on individual stocks and trading and investment topics, but in the end the purpose of ASF is to serve those who use it and this is my number one priority.

Growth has been a little stagnant lately and I'm trying to put my finger on what the problem is. We get around ten new members every day but traffic levels have flatlined and I'm not sure why. It occurred to me that perhaps newcomers aren't seeing enough stock market related discussion and are either moving on or seeing ASF as a place to pop into occasionally rather than every day.

I was hoping that 2015 would be a year of real growth for ASF but so far it's more of the same.


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## dutchie (2 February 2015)

Tisme said:


> The three discussion taboos of religion, sex and politics combined with money are the aphrodisiacs of the human race. Sex was obviously not enough, thus the invention of the other three.




I agree there just is not enough discussion about sex (in a classy way of course).


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## Logique (2 February 2015)

Joe,

a fair bit of the General forum posting is indirectly relevant to markets, eg the party politics and climate change threads.

The stock tipping and A-REIT threads are good vehicles to grow interest. 

Also experienced investors know it's a patience game, so they often like the mind-refresh of the General forum. 

I think Smurf hit it on the head, there's a certain symbiosis between the Gen and Stock threads.


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## dutchie (2 February 2015)

Hi Joe

I enjoy posting and reading on the General Chat Forum. I think it should remain as it is. 

Other than obvious duplications all new threads should be allowed (within the law of course).

My gut feeling is that if you get rid of the General Chat Forum there would not necessarily be an increase on stock/trading threads/contributions.


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## Craton (2 February 2015)

As noted by others; the world is made up of more than just stocks (et all)  and at times, world events can have a direct impact on the those very same stocks. 

Oh to have had computer/internet access in the days after 9/11 for example...


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## bellenuit (2 February 2015)

moXJO said:


> General chat is just the 'kill time' area between trades. Just merge threads if they get to similar. As for the stock section, I personally prefer hotcoppers forum where I can see which stocks are trending. Click for click I seem to be hitting hotcopper to asf 4:1(sorry Joe). I don't think this site needs more sub-forums as it would be spreading posts a bit thin all round.




I have to agree there. Perhaps it's because I don't know how to navigate the most efficient way, but I find it really difficult to get to a forum on a stock I want, if I need to follow Stocks Q-Z (or whatever) and then search down until I see the ticker I am interested in, as they are listed in chronological order of most recent posted to. I find HotCopper easier with it's favourites list, so all new posts on the stocks I am interested in appear usually on the very first screen I encounter. For that reason only I use Hot Copper for stocks, but ASF for the Chat.


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## tech/a (2 February 2015)

> Growth has been a little stagnant lately and I'm trying to put my finger on what the problem is




I think its a generic issue with regard to market sentiment.
If we are in a bull market people will track to your door looking for the latest hot tip.
Or wanting to manage their own SMSF hence more traffic.

If its flat then you'll be flat.
Bear market you'll have sub average growth.

Ill private mail you some business building ideas.
But just quickly.

Work on the Pareto Principal
from a member at ASF (or any forum for that matter) How would they answer (What's in it for me?)
If you don't know then you cant apply the Pareto Principal.

I recently identified 29 for my own business
I've implemented 2 booked until April was only Feb at Xmas.

Building business would have to be my number 1 passion.
built a few----


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## Joe Blow (2 February 2015)

bellenuit said:


> I have to agree there. Perhaps it's because I don't know how to navigate the most efficient way, but I find it really difficult to get to a forum on a stock I want, if I need to follow Stocks Q-Z (or whatever) and then search down until I see the ticker I am interested in, as they are listed in chronological order of most recent posted to. I find HotCopper easier with it's favourites list, so all new posts on the stocks I am interested in appear usually on the very first screen I encounter. For that reason only I use Hot Copper for stocks, but ASF for the Chat.




To find a thread on a particular stock just enter the ASX code (or a word in the company name) in the search box and click the search icon.

Unfortunately, the problem with a slow down in posting on individual stocks is that it's difficult to keep new members coming back on a regular basis because there's not enough stock chat to keep them interested. This eventually has a flow on effect to the General Chat forum and ASF in general. This is what I think is responsible for the lack of growth overall, even though we get about 200 new members each month.

ASF is due for a website redesign a little later this year when we move to another platform and I will be putting a focus on functionality and ease of navigation. In the meantime, please keep posting on individual stocks, even if it's just a quick update. It all helps to keep ASF active, and will hopefully encourage others to do the same, generating even more stock chat in the process.


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## tech/a (2 February 2015)

Joe Blow said:


> To find a thread on a particular stock just enter the ASX code (or a word in the company name) in the search box and click the search icon.
> 
> Unfortunately, the problem with a slow down in posting on individual stocks is that it's difficult to keep new members coming back on a regular basis because there's not enough stock chat to keep them interested. This eventually has a flow on effect to the General Chat forum and ASF in general. This is what I think is responsible for the lack of growth overall, even though we get about 200 new members each month.
> 
> ASF is due for a website redesign a little later this year when we move to another platform and I will be putting a focus on functionality and ease of navigation. In the meantime, please keep posting on individual stocks, even if it's just a quick update. It all helps to keep ASF active, and will hopefully encourage others to do the same, generating even more stock chat in the process.




*Number one* thing I would consider is a section that isn't available to those not registered
You have to be a member for access.

Sir O's piece would have to be in that lot.
If you see people being directed to it and your not a member and want it---then you'll have to become a member.

You could do this with say a Weekly/Monthly special guest piece.---as well or as part of definitely the archive---you'd have a few over the years.


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## Joe Blow (2 February 2015)

tech/a said:


> *Number one* thing I would consider is a section that isn't available to those not registered
> You have to be a member for access.
> 
> Sir O's piece would have to be in that lot.
> ...




Tech, yeah restricting access to some content to encourage more registrations is definitely something I have considered. At the moment, many of ASF's features, such as being able to view and download attachments and using the website search and PM system, are only available to those who are registered. However, it does make sense to introduce a "Members Only" area. The only problem with this idea that I can see is what content to restrict. Given that ASF is already fairly well organised into individual forums by subject area, a "Members Only" section would be unfocused and broad if it were a separate forum. If the functionality existed, a better way might be to make specific threads "Members Only" rather than having a dedicated forum just for members.

More content is definitely something that is a high priority, especially high quality custom written stuff. The big challenge is finding people to write it and integrating it effectively into the website. You would also need multiple contributors to keep the fresh content coming in on a regular basis. It would probably be something that would start as a fortnightly guest piece with a view to making it weekly if it became popular over time.

Thanks for the feedback.


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## pixel (2 February 2015)

tech/a said:


> *Number one* thing I would consider is a section that isn't available to those not registered
> You have to be a member for access.




That gets my vote.

I recently sent a ForEx link to a chap I'd met at a friend's place and found to be well-educated and generally a prospective "new friend". Turned out he was raised a Muslim - and definitely "not amused" by the rants he found in "General".


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## SirRumpole (2 February 2015)

pixel said:


> That gets my vote.
> 
> I recently sent a ForEx link to a chap I'd met at a friend's place and found to be well-educated and generally a prospective "new friend". Turned out he was raised a Muslim - and definitely "not amused" by the rants he found in "General".




I think it's a shame that we don't have well educated Muslims contributing to some of the discussions here. 

There needs to be some balance.


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## Julia (2 February 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> That's democracy for you Joe
> 
> If people are interested in stocks, they will post there, but there are other things going on in the world.



The name of the forum is Aussie *Stock* Forums, Rumpole.  It seems a reasonable expectation that anyone joining such a forum would have some interest in stocks, investment generally, Super etc., something finance related at least.



pinkboy said:


> The problem is between yourself, luutzu, bintang et al, there are several hundred posts similar in nature, but going off different tangents. As soon as the topic goes on one of these tangents,  you guys start up another thread and continue.  Tonight's new thread is a perfect example, with several posts having the ability to slot right into the current few threads.



Agree.  And largely it's the people who repeatedly argue with one another on religion and politics who never seem to post not only in the stock threads but not even in discussions about general investment, interest rates, Super etc., just General Chat.  



Bintang said:


> I can’t see what the problem is. It’s incredibly easy to avoid the General Chat section by not navigating there.
> Once in the General Chat it is also incredibly easy to navigate out.



Agree.   I use "Quick Links", then "Today's Posts" and at the top of that drop down box there's an option to omit General Chat threads.  Seems an appropriate way of catering to the greatest number of people.



Bill M said:


> The problem with general chat is that it is flooded with political and religious threads. Do we really need 5 different threads on Islam or Muslims? Do we really need a thread on every politician or every states liberal or labor party? When I go away for 6 hours or so and come back to my PC and click new posts the last thing I want to see 9 out 10 posts being on politics and religion.



+1.  Far too many threads about Muslims.



> On another forum the forum owner had a good idea. He created a sub forum called "Bedlam". There was a warning that it was a no rules area and anything could be discussed. Don't not enter it if you are easily offended, it said.



That's a great idea, especially if the people who just wanted to swap insults could reside there.


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## basilio (2 February 2015)

It is true that the stock areas on ASF are barely ticking over.  My thoughts are that in fact the speculative and general industrial/retail stock index is just falling away  to  dust overall.  In the current market investors seem to be on a hiding to nothing if they invest outside the 4 banks, Telstra and a few others.

There seems to be little point in trying to do analysis on these core shares. They seem to have a life of their own dominated by safety first principles of funds and SMSF investors.

Conversely it seems that no amount of analysis or "good "results creates significant movement in non core shares. In the past some strong analysis, a few good results and at least half a dozen people  showing interest and support for shares  appeared to  "create" rising support in the marketplace. That seems to be almost dead in the water.

The other niche area is clever stock plays based on very short term horizons. Essentially gambling/investing on a technical skills.  Good luck to those who can do that and make a buck.

In that sense it seems very challenging to recreate interest in the shares section itself. Nonetheless some thoughts

1)  Perhaps identify some of the better researchers and discuss with them an increased input. 
2)  Open a Stock Forum on the Next Big Share. Essentially try to encourage quality research and discussion on a small number of stocks that maybe do have chance of becoming highly successful companies in the next 3-5 years. The challenge itself could bring out some serious researchers/thinkers.

With regard to the General Chat area.  I think there is  excellent value in a vibrant, constructive, creative and good natured forum.  But Pixels comment regarding his Muslim friends response to the "rants" is instructive. 

In my view it is a shame that the most prolific threads are often the most aggressive and  sometimes become almost hysterical.  I just don't think that type of conversation will hold more than a small section of  potential visitors. 

I don't use it enough but Whirlpool. net is probably the elite community forum in Australia. It started off as a specialist thread for internet/computer subjects but now seems to have  thousands of active, constructive participants across a huge number of topics.

All the best


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## SirRumpole (2 February 2015)

> The name of the forum is Aussie Stock Forums, Rumpole




And the name of the section is "General Chat" Julia, for *non stock* related threads.

If the stock part of the forum is stagnant, then maybe it's only General Chat that keeps it alive. 

Perhaps Tisme has the right idea. General Chat can attract people to other areas of the forum as well. 

To kill it maybe committing suicide.


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## Bintang (2 February 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> If the stock part of the forum is stagnant, then maybe it's only General Chat that keeps it alive.




The stock part of the forum will burst back to life when there is another major financial event in the same way that:
 - The political threads burst into life when there are for example, elections
 - The religious threads burst into life when for example, cartoonists get shot

   etc…..

 Just be patient. Many pundits think we are in for a another major financial crisis this year.


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## burglar (2 February 2015)

tech/a said:


> I think its a generic issue with regard to market sentiment ...




Absolutely agree ...


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## SirRumpole (2 February 2015)

Bintang said:


> The stock part of the forum will burst back to life when there is another major financial event in the same way that:
> - The political threads burst into life when there are for example, elections
> - The religious threads burst into life when for example, cartoonists get shot
> 
> ...




Something to look forward to for Joe in terms of increased forum activity


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## orr (2 February 2015)

If I was to start a Thread called ' THE QUALITY OF STONE FRUIT THIS  SEASON ' which would sit well in G/Chat. When say a  well sourced rumour appears in the above thread of 'foreign buyer''s' busy in the early season packing sheds of Young and Orange; all of a sudden it's a subject of broader economic/investment interest . When I read 'Stock' I see it in terms of investment.
Or say in the 'Eddie Obeid' thead, that he's about to purchace another printing business. Obviously you wouldn't want shares in whom evers taken on the fire insurance .
When a butterfly flaps it's wings in the G/Chat...  and all that .


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## drsmith (2 February 2015)

Readers can choose to read what's here or not.

Beyond that it's just a question of whether it's a PITA to moderate.


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## craft (3 February 2015)

Joe Blow said:


> Thanks for the feedback everyone.
> 
> I'm really just trying to gauge sentiment with this thread and if most people are happy with the way things are then I won't change anything.
> 
> ...




Your name and major advertisement to the world is Aussie “*Stock*” Forum. 
There is plenty of activity in other stock forums discussing stocks/ investments.
You obviously attract good numbers of new people looking for a “stock” forum.

But the majority of content here is not stock related but more general banter (and some of it is not real pleasant - well at least it wasn't when I last looked).

Your content and your advertising are mis-matched!!!!

I guess the choice is yours, Serve the current community who by the looks of the poll (and posting volume) like the dominance of the general chat. Or get your content and advertising in line (change the name or change the content) if you want to grow and attract those that will never respond to your poll but *do* vote with their mouse and move to where the relevant content is.


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## McLovin (3 February 2015)

pixel said:


> That gets my vote.
> 
> I recently sent a ForEx link to a chap I'd met at a friend's place and found to be well-educated and generally a prospective "new friend". Turned out he was raised a Muslim - and definitely "not amused" by the rants he found in "General".




You can't really blame him. Some of the rubbish that is posted about Muslims belongs on some neo-Nazi forum. I steer clear of General Chat these days largely because reading the bile that often passes for discourse get utterly boring. Yes, there are people who have interesting perspectives who post there but it's basically four or five posters -- who rarely, if ever post anywhere on the stock/investing forums -- going at eachother. I've noticed the rest of the forum has really dried up, which could be because of the time of year but could also be because, like your almost "new friend", new members arrive and the first thing they encounter on a _*stock*_ forum is a thread about whether Islam is evil or not. 

The last time Joe brought this issue up I said on another forum I use you can only see the "General Chat" section once you've been a member for six months or have 180 posts. They also divide the general chat into one forum for "politics and religion" and another for everything else. If you don't have the requisite posts/time period you can't even see that the general chat forum exists. It works pretty well and at least keeps the soft white underbelly of the forum away from potential new members. 

The forum is becoming a place for a very small number of people who want to discuss politics and religion, and honestly I find myself visiting less and less.


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## tech/a (3 February 2015)

I have to agree with Mc lovin and Craft.

Both are serious Stock enthusiasts.

*Aussi stock forum* should be just that.
I wont post on general chat. Hot air is of no value. Opinions are like armpits we all have one.
Ill keep mine to myself---except on this occasion!


But generation of volume dictates a general section.
It also dictates some of the moderation often let go far to long
not wanting to squash free speech.

But is this really a stock/trading forum.

I post up a heap of stuff which can take a heap of time and the
interaction is ---well frankly not worth the time and effort.

*THATS WHY I STOP MID WAY WITH A LOT OF CONTENT.*

Who's serious about what they do and are capable of interacting
infact can they???

People who have a lot to offer are either leaving or choosing to post less
I understand they cant be bothered.

Business or content?
I think that if you don't take care of content eventually you wont have a business---of any standing.
Harsh but true.
I even offered to take sometime and give you some suggestions privately---no comment---so why bother.

There are some capable people on this site and many who have left---on a regular basis.
Complete re think I think!


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## Joe Blow (3 February 2015)

Well I appreciate all the feedback. It's certainly interesting hearing all the different perspectives.

I agree that the General Chat forum is supposed to be a place for ASF members who are interested in the stock market to discuss topics that are more general in nature and not specifically trading or investment related. It is not intended to be a place that is hijacked by those who only post in General Chat threads and who use ASF as a vehicle to push political agendas. 

I think the General Chat forum serves an important purpose, and hosts some good discussions, but the focus of ASF really needs to be on the stock market. There is a very small group of people who only post in General Chat threads and who never participate in threads in the other forums. There are probably other online communities that are not stock market focused that would serve the interests of these people better.

ASF is a stock market forum and it's probably not the right forum for those who do not have an active interest in financial markets. Obviously I do not wish to see long standing members leave due to the actions of a tiny minority, so henceforth I will be paying very close attention to the posting patterns of those who seem to only post in General Chat threads.

Again, I would urge people to continue to post in threads on individual stocks and in other trading and investment related threads. Please do what you can to keep ASF's focus on the stock market. Many thanks!


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## moXJO (3 February 2015)

tech/a said:


> Business or content?
> I think that if you don't take care of content eventually you wont have a business---of any standing.
> Harsh but true.
> I even offered to take sometime and give you some suggestions privately---no comment---so why bother.
> ...




Since you craft, Mcloving and others are some of the main contributors how do you find the format and layout of the site?
Spread to thin across multiple threads?
Navigation?
Look?


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## SirRumpole (3 February 2015)

Joe Blow said:
			
		

> I think the General Chat forum serves an important purpose, and hosts some good discussions, but the focus of ASF really needs to be on the stock market. There is a very small group of people who only post in General Chat threads and who never participate in threads in the other forums. There are probably other online communities that are not stock market focused that would serve the interests of these people better.




Looks like I'm off to Whirlpool in that case, but thank you for your indulgence to this point in time.


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## Julia (3 February 2015)

basilio said:


> It is true that the stock areas on ASF are barely ticking over.  My thoughts are that in fact the speculative and general industrial/retail stock index is just falling away  to  dust overall.  In the current market investors seem to be on a hiding to nothing if they invest outside the 4 banks, Telstra and a few others.
> 
> There seems to be little point in trying to do analysis on these core shares. They seem to have a life of their own dominated by safety first principles of funds and SMSF investors.



That's a good point.  Also some of us in retirement are no longer actively looking for growth but do need cash flow via the dividends and franking credits.

More generally there seems to be quite widespread nervousness, a sort of twitchiness that is extending into increased volatility even politically.  The situation in Europe probably counterbalances any positive signs in the US.  Our own economy, especially given the political chaos, isn't looking exactly great either, such view endorsed today by the RBA cutting rates again.



McLovin said:


> You can't really blame him. Some of the rubbish that is posted about Muslims belongs on some neo-Nazi forum. I steer clear of General Chat these days largely because reading the bile that often passes for discourse get utterly boring. Yes, there are people who have interesting perspectives who post there but it's basically four or five posters -- who rarely, if ever post anywhere on the stock/investing forums -- going at eachother. I've noticed the rest of the forum has really dried up, which could be because of the time of year but could also be because, like your almost "new friend", new members arrive and the first thing they encounter on a _*stock*_ forum is a thread about whether Islam is evil or not.
> 
> The forum is becoming a place for a very small number of people who want to discuss politics and religion, and honestly I find myself visiting less and less.



Yes, pretty much exactly my position.



tech/a said:


> I post up a heap of stuff which can take a heap of time and the
> interaction is ---well frankly not worth the time and effort.



You do indeed.  Nulla Nulla and Rimtas and others also consistently put up charts with informative accompanying comments.
All of you deserve our appreciation.

And I often note that (although it's not my area of interest) the value investors engage in co-operative exchange of information.

But I guess the overall 'culture' or sense of a forum emerges from the threads that are dominant, and when we have the same people who apparently have no interest whatsoever in anything to do with markets, investments, or finance overall, consistently engage in combative, often unpleasant, exchanges (today's posts in the Asylum Seekers thread provide an example), that's perhaps what comes to signify what ASF stands for.

Years ago there was an atmosphere of goodwill and constructive contributions.  It would be good to get that back.  I don't know if that's possible.  Our society in general seems aggressive, angry, and quick to be offended.


----------



## Bintang (3 February 2015)

I can't help noticing that although ASF has 56,590 members the poll in this thread has only received 31 votes.
Is this significant I wonder?

Two possible interpretations: 
1)	It indicates how many people would bother to go to the polling booths to vote in elections if voting was not compulsory
2)	It indicates that 99.945% of members of this forum don’t really care what’s in the General Chat Forum


----------



## galumay (3 February 2015)

FWIW, the first point I would make is that I think in general the level of on topic discussion on this site is of a very high level and the members frequently demonstrate a very helpful, sharing and educational attitude.

I have learnt an extrordinary amount from the members on this site, even though my interest is fundamental and value investing I can see that the TA guys also provide that sort of attitude and support to those who share their outlook and are also starting out.

The general chat side of things I try to stay clear of generally, i find most of the posting to be racist, sexist, extremist conservative politically and the few times I have ventured in there I have regretted it. But in saying that it doesnt really detract from the forum to me because the on topic stuff is so valuable.

I dont know what the answer is, nearly every forum I am involved with, whether as a member or an admin, faces the same issue, members want to be able to have off topic discussions and unfortunately it seems to bring out the worst in people. If you take the off topic discussions away then inevitably you will lose memebers.

One point I will make is that I am a moderator on a couple of forums that have live "Chat" as well - and that is much worse than an off topic forum!! The flamers and trolls just love the instant rewards offered by live chat, and the red neck bogans with a few drinks under the belt make it a micro management environment from a mods point of view!

I think ASF is the best investment forum in Australia hands down, there is a great core of members and the activity is probably reflective of a small population, with a topic that is a pretty specialised area of interest.


----------



## Bintang (3 February 2015)

galumay said:


> ….. members want to be able to have off topic discussions and unfortunately it seems to bring out the worst in people. If you take the off topic discussions away then inevitably you will lose members.




There is a reason why pressure vessels have pressure control valves on them. 
Sometimes people just want to be able to let off steam.

Which is worse, verbal rioting in cyberspace or physical rioting on the streets?


----------



## burglar (3 February 2015)

Bintang said:


> ... Which is worse, verbal rioting in cyberspace or physical rioting on the streets?




Neither is necessary! :


----------



## SirRumpole (3 February 2015)

Although I have share investments I'm not a share trader.

I don't think the individual trader can compete against mega stockbrokers that use dedicated high speed computer lines and algorithms (there is a word for that type of trading but I've forgotten what it is) .

I read something a while ago about a broker who found out that he was being gazumped by other brokers because as soon as he put in a bid at what he thought was the current selling price, the share price jumped. Turned out other firms were monitoring each bid with high speed computer lines and put their bid in milliseconds before our luckless friend which pushed the price up.

With that sort of technology against the small trader, why would you bother ? There are just too many big boys out there. 

Maybe other people have the same idea which is why the stock forum is declining. Or maybe they have found a way to beat the "system" and are lying on a beach somewhere in the Pacific.


----------



## Bintang (3 February 2015)

burglar said:


> Neither is necessary! :




Perhaps pressure relief valves on domestic hot water cylinders aren't necessary either.


----------



## Smurf1976 (3 February 2015)

I think it depends to a great extent on what is actually being discussed.

The demise of Australian car manufacturing = a relevant topic given the broader economic issues which are both a cause and consequence of that situation.

Best BBQ to buy = completely off-topic on a stock forum but harmless in itself. 

Solar panels on the roof = a relevant financial topic for those considering such an investment. How it works technically = relevant if you want to understand what is underpinning your decision to buy / not buy solar panels. 

Policies of the ALP, Coalition, Greens and anyone else = relevant to a point depending on the actual subject. Government policy does underpin all things financial to some extent.

Current items in the news = generally off-topic but harmless in most cases. If there's a terrorist attack or earthquake, people are going to want to discuss it and vent. 

For any of the above, a sensible person will see that those threads are in an "off topic" section of the forum and choose to read or not read them accordingly.

Religion etc = playing with fire BIG TIME and guaranteed to upset someone. Same with anything that could be considered as racism. A newbie comes across ASF, reads a racist post or two, is offended and never comes back. But if the same person comes across a thread about camping or how a satellite is actually launched, they'll likely realise that it's in the "general chat" section and if not interested will just stick to the stock threads. People don't get offended by tents or rockets but they sure do when it comes to religion and race.


----------



## SirRumpole (4 February 2015)

> People don't get offended by tents or rockets but they sure do when it comes to religion and race.




People may also be put off by a political discussion if it's obvious that it's dominated by one side of the political spectrum.

Also I think that a lot of forums like this are being undermined by Facebook and Twitter as they seem to be the "in things" in social media these days and therefore draw the young set more than  traditional forums like this one.


----------



## johenmo (7 February 2015)

When I sit with a particular people who are interested in stocks, our total conversation will cover stocks and lots of other topics, some of which will fit the Gen Chat.  Expect the same with an on-line community.
I read a lot of all sorts early on - our share protfolio is small because we redirected the money elsewhere - which included a couple of weddings & university accomodation costs for children & a fantastic trip to India.  4 years until the last one is out of uni!!!!

But the preponderance of religion + politics threads means a lot I don't click on.  I look at specific stock threads without logging in.

I would click onto ASF infrequently now - only saw this today.  Got lots to do with my time.  Now I m travelling for work a lot more it will likely increase - like today sitting in a motel room.  And even less time available when I am home.  

I think - Kill the Gen chat & you'll kill the forum.  And it's far too valuable for that.


----------



## explod (7 February 2015)

tech/a said:


> I have to agree with Mc lovin and Craft.
> 
> Both are serious Stock enthusiasts.
> 
> ...





Some very  good points here. 

And I have always found Tech one of the most valuable posters over time on ASF and still maintains very good contributions on technical trading. 

We have in my view lost some great contributors in the area of fundamentals.  This is a pity and was due to differences philosophically.  Good moderation with some person (retired perhaps) having had a proven and solid background in economics could be something to consider.  Political views sneaking into this area is another problem.

Just 2 cents


----------



## SirRumpole (7 February 2015)

I really can't see how whatever is said on general chat would deter others from posting in other areas of the forum.

I subscribe to the ASF RSS feed and Chat posts don't appear there it seems, so the RSS isn't being assailed by religion and politics. 

GC is a branch on the tree that people don't have to visit if they don't want to. On the other hand there may be some way of advertising other areas of the forum in General Chat so casual users can get a whiff of what is happening in other areas. It may arouse their interest.


----------



## Dona Ferentes (9 May 2020)

found this thread as I want to post a link to an article in the Good Weekend (SMH, The Age) about chat rooms, forums, online communities, discord, tangents, toxicity and the whole dang thing.

It's 2020 and we're in the middle of the Covid-19 challenge, so it's a fair assumption to make these are trying times, abnormal circumstances, with the expectation people are reacting in stressful ways. (certainly showing up in the general forums; lots of barrows and agendas being pushed).

Anyway, here's the link
https://www.smh.com.au/national/soc...often-tear-us-apart-20200316-p54aln.html?btis

But I will note ASF seems to be populated largely by _messieurs d'un certain âge_, so we're coping much better. (and good to see familiar names in the 50 odd posts from 2015)

Will cut n paste bits to follow


----------



## Dona Ferentes (9 May 2020)

*Social discord: online communities are supposed to bring people together, so why do they often tear us apart?*

Online groups are the Rotary clubs of today: places for communities to share information, support each other, do good deeds. But as their harangued moderators can attest, they often devolve into something more 'Lord of the Flies' than Pollyanna.
.



> ...psychologists say specific features of online interaction work against civility and we are simply incapable of co-operating online without the firm hand of an invisible army of moderators.





> Online communities can emerge from the grassroots or they can – and this is much harder to authentically pull off – be founded by companies. Those that have triumphed with this in Australia include Bunnings with its DIY Workshop forum, and Woolworths with Bunch, a “gated” online community of 60,000 members with a waiting list of 48,000 (members get free Woolworths-brand products to review, but also share recipes and general life discussion



and of course 







> most online communities live in Facebook under its “Groups” product, as the Facebook people call it. This function allows people to join discrete interest groups, which can be private or public (of Facebook’s 2.5 billion members worldwide, 1.4 billion use Groups.




_The most civil online communities, research shows, are support groups around specific health issues, such as Beyond Blue’s mental health forums. Outside of health, some online communities just tend to split: the Facebook support group for entrepreneurial women, Like Minded Women Who Are Not Bitches Drinking Wine (5900 members), for example, was set up as an alternative to Like Minded Bitches Drinking Wine (127,000 members), the former aiming to be less bitchy than the latter._

_Others simply devolve into a scroll of whines and nit-picks. Journalist and author Megan Blandford wrote last year that her local town’s Facebook group had a lovely purpose but was slowly losing members because of fights over local businesses’ promotional posts and dog poo. Is this inevitable? What is it about the internet that makes community so hard_?



> ...[there can be] constant micro aggressions, snide comments, racism and sexism.
> People can be awful online, says Beckett, because the internet is “low context”, meaning we miss buckets of information when we interact there.
> 
> Body language is a key one: the bow of a head, the furrow of a brow, that wounded look in someone’s eyes that reminds us of their humanity (studies suggest a lack of eye contact is a more potent driver of hostility than being anonymous and invisible).





> "Tone of voice is missing, too: there’s still no sarcasm font. If we’re having a fight in a restaurant, there will be bystanders who might shoot us a disapproving look; under the so-called “bystander effect”, we’re tempered by the presence of others.
> 
> Yet online, bolstered sometimes by anonymity, we forget people may be watching. And sometimes the bystanders are reluctant to step up when everyone seems quick to cut down"





> Psychologists call this the online disinhibition effect. It can have a positive impact. If you’re anonymous and lacking in self-restraint, sharing your innermost secrets online will quickly cement intimate bonds. But the flip side – toxic online disinhibition – is the social poison seen not only in trolling, but leaching through online communities.



Some *moderators and administrators *are paid. Most are not. A survey by the Australian Community Managers industry group – most of whose members are paid professionals – last year found 71 per cent were female and 68 per cent Millennials. They were well educated, with 82 per cent holding graduate-level qualifications, yet 40 per cent earned below the national average. Online toxicity was their most common complaint. The prevailing culture in Australia was, one surveyed manager commented, treating strangers on the internet as less than human. “I’d love to see a bit more empathy.”


----------



## basilio (9 May 2020)

Nice find Dona. Plenty of food for thought .


----------



## Joe Blow (3 November 2020)

Bas, ASF isn't a political forum, it's a stock market forum and you and a very small handful of others have been undermining ASF for a long time.

Instead of a two-way block, what I should have introduced is functionality that forces people to post just as many posts outside of the General Chat forum as they do in it.

From now on, anyone who just want to post in political threads can do it elsewhere. I've had enough. This is a stock market forum and things are going to change around here starting now.

I've been way too tolerant for far too long.


----------



## dutchie (3 November 2020)

Joe Blow said:


> it's a stock market forum and you and a very small handful of others have been undermining ASF for a long time.



Hi Joe
I will put my hand up as being part of the "small handful".
Would you mind expanding on your statement that we are undermining ASF.


----------



## Joe Blow (3 November 2020)

dutchie said:


> Hi Joe
> I will put my hand up as being part of the "small handful".
> Would you mind expanding on your statement that we are undermining ASF.




An online community that is centred around a niche, especially a very specific niche such as the stock market, trading and investing, is damaged when it allows itself to be watered down (or taken over) by discussion completely unrelated to that niche.

It is made even worse when that unrelated discussion is marred by personal attacks, ugliness and divisiveness.

The bottom line is that ASF must remain focused on the stock market, trading and investing if it is to survive. The General Chat forum was only ever intended to be an after hours kind of place where those whose primary interest was financial markets could chat about off-topic subjects such as travel, hobbies, or sport. Politics too, I suppose, but not to the point where it takes over the entire community.

There is no path forward for ASF as a General Chat forum. It is simply not economically viable.


----------



## PZ99 (3 November 2020)

Sounds like you're gonna blow up General Chat Joe ?

Reminds me of this thread for a bit of light reading 





__





						Lets bring back the Trading and Investing focus to ASF!
					

ASF is dying, post are dropping off. To be honest i'd rather see whats happening on another forum that is heavy on trading and doesn't tolerate political crap. If i want politics i'll visit the ABC...  Lets bring back trading and investing to ASF where it is a sole focus! I miss the old ASF!




					www.aussiestockforums.com


----------



## Joe Blow (3 November 2020)

PZ99 said:


> Sounds like you're gonna blow up General Chat Joe ?




There's only so many times I can say the same thing over and over again. Those who only want to post in the General Chat forum should do the honourable thing and either:

1. Find another venue; or
2. Post more in other forums to try and help keep the balance right.

Thank you for highlighting another thread where I have said exactly the same thing as I am saying here. There must be at least half a dozen more threads out there, probably more. Yet I am ignored time and time again.

Eventually, something's got to give.


----------



## dutchie (3 November 2020)

Joe Blow said:


> An online community that is centred around a niche, especially a very specific niche such as the stock market, trading and investing, is damaged when it allows itself to be watered down (or taken over) by discussion completely unrelated to that niche.
> 
> It is made even worse when that unrelated discussion is marred by personal attacks, ugliness and divisiveness.
> 
> ...





I’m sorry you feel that way Joe.

I still don’t know how we undermine ASF. I am sure that neither Basilio or I or the “small handful”, or anyone else have any desire to undermine ASF in any way.

Some of us are Pro Trump and some of us are Anti Trump but we are all PRO ASF!

I cannot agree that the US political situation is “unrelated to the niche” you mention. In fact, in my opinion, it is the complete opposite.

The Australian market is dominated by the US stock market and economy and by the Chinese market and economy. These in turn are influenced and determined by the political situation in each country, in particular the US.

Who is President in the US is directly important to the Australian stock market and economy (and many other life factors, particularly the freedom of speech).

I realise you are running a business and that your bottom line is the money you earn from it. So is Twitter, Facebook, Google etc. They have recently been lambasted for their censorship.

I have enjoyed my time at ASF and you provide a great service. I do not want to undermine it in any way.

If I have contributed to undermining it then I apologise.

I am happy to continue using ASF under the rules you stipulate.

I am, however, concerned about the deterioration of our freedom of speech but understand if you don’t want to be part of its defence, for economic reasons.


----------



## Joe Blow (3 November 2020)

dutchie said:


> I cannot agree that the US political situation is “unrelated to the niche” you mention. In fact, in my opinion, it is the complete opposite.
> 
> The Australian market is dominated by the US stock market and economy and by the Chinese market and economy. These in turn are influenced and determined by the political situation in each country, in particular the US.
> 
> Who is President in the US is directly important to the Australian stock market and economy (and many other life factors, particularly the freedom of speech).




The problem is that it is not discussed this way. It is discussed in the context of pro-Trump or anti-Trump partisanship. Trump's personality has loomed so large over his Presidency that policy (especially economic policy) has very little to do with how he is discussed. There is almost no economic discussion of Trump's Presidency here. Even if there was it would soon descend into the usual personal attacks and insults.



dutchie said:


> I realise you are running a business and that your bottom line is the money you earn from it. So is Twitter, Facebook, Google etc. They have recently been lambasted for their censorship.
> 
> I have enjoyed my time at ASF and you provide a great service. I do not want to undermine it in any way.




The problem is the very few people want to advertise at a stock market website where political discussion is more prevalent than stock market discussion.

Where are all the people who are interested in ASX-listed shares? Where are the people interested in trading and long term investing?



dutchie said:


> If I have contributed to undermining it then I apologise.
> 
> I am happy to continue using ASF under the rules you stipulate.
> 
> I am, however, concerned about the deterioration of our freedom of speech but understand if you don’t want to be part of its defence, for economic reasons.




What ASF needs is for the focus to firmly remain on financial markets. Stock chat, trading chat, investment chat, forex chat, economics chat, all of it. The General Chat forum should represent no more than 20% of all posts. I would prefer less. 15% sounds about right to me.

The only way ASF can remain economically viable (and I pray this is the last time I have to say it, but I know it won't be) is for this to happen. We could use about four or five times (actually probably ten times) the stock chat we get each day. If I could take every post from the General Chat forum that has been posted just today and magically turn it into a post about an ASX-listed stock the issue would be gone immediately.

I'm not making things up, I'm not exaggerating anything. A stock market forum that isn't focused on the stock market is dead in the water.


----------



## dutchie (3 November 2020)

Joe Blow said:


> The problem is that it is not discussed this way. It is discussed in the context of pro-Trump or anti-Trump partisanship. Trump's personality has loomed so large over his Presidency that policy (especially economic policy) has very little to do with how he is discussed. There is almost no economic discussion of Trump's Presidency here. Even if there was it would soon descend into the usual partisanship.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I hear you.
I will try and desist from GC and try harder in the other areas of the forum. Cheers.


----------



## macca (3 November 2020)

I rarely post on specific stocks but do comment on general topics

To me the problem in General Chat is the sheer volume of posts that are copy and paste, I doubt that many people read them because it is similar to being shouted at.

To paste 5 or 6 very long partisan pieces at the same time certainly does detract from the forum.

I enjoy reading peoples opinion, but I prefer the members of the forum to post their own opinion, not someone else's opinion who is paid to write.

If we need to post our own opinion then the posts are going to be a Lot shorter


----------



## Joe Blow (3 November 2020)

macca said:


> I rarely post on specific stocks but do comment on general topics
> 
> To me the problem in General Chat is the sheer volume of posts that are copy and paste, I doubt that many people read them because it is similar to being shouted at.
> 
> ...




There is one person here in particular who is bent on posting as many articles about politics as possible relentlessly, almost all without any comment apart from maybe once sentence. These posts are a waste of space and serve no purpose. They are nothing more than blatant political agenda pushing with little to no thought behind them. 

Find an article that supports your agenda, post a link, go find another article that supports your agenda, post a link. Rinse and repeat.

Anyone that wants to do that, please go here and start your free blog: https://wordpress.com/create-blog/

ASF should be a place of in-depth, nuanced, thoughtful discussion and debate.


----------



## Smurf1976 (3 November 2020)

Joe Blow said:


> I think you're probably right. It's becoming very clear what needs to happen in order to solve this situation. A small handful of people who simply cannot stop pushing partisan political agendas need to be shown the door and escorted off the premises.



My personal view is that religion and politics are inherently problematic subjects.

I doubt you'd have any real drama if GC was simply people posting some random photos of their holidays, links to music they like and so on. First because there won't be too many of those posts, there's a limit to how much anyone's going to post on those subjects, and second because nobody's going to find it offensive or take a strong view about it. 

If for example someone wants to discuss the details of how weather impacts crop yields or the effects of COVID lockdowns on gas consumption (as random examples) then that's not a financial topic in itself but if someone's invested in relevant companies then it's useful background information for those taking a deep fundamental approach. I personally can't see any actual harm in that.

Politics and religion however, well those topics tend to be dynamite and I think the American pubs with their "No Politics or Religion" signs have it right..........


----------



## wayneL (3 November 2020)

I think what I am seeing is that 99% that our members here want to see the forum survive and prosper.

And there are plenty of other places for us to exercise our political opinions... Not just silicon valley giants but also other alternatives.

Slowly I'm coming around to the possibility that may be political discussion on this particular forum might not be such a good thing.

Dunno, just thinking aloud.


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## bellenuit (3 November 2020)

Joe Blow said:


> The problem is the very few people want to advertise at a stock market website where political discussion is more prevalent than stock market discussion.
> 
> Where are all the people who are interested in ASX-listed shares? Where are the people interested in trading and long term investing?




With all due respect Joe, I think the ASF problems will not be solved by stifling the General Chat forums, but by improving the Stock forums.

I have mentioned this every time this discussion comes up, but the design of ASF does little to encourage stock discussion. Perhaps I don't understand how to use it properly, but I find  it difficult to find anything pertinent when I do search on Stocks. I just did a search on CSL using the search field and limited the search to the titles only. There were only two threads with CSL in the title. The one specific to CSL had about 2 posts per months on average. Just 1 each in the last two months. None of the posts has a heading to indicate what is being discussed (what aspect of CSL is being discussed).

I don't want to have to search to find a stock I want to discuss. You badly need to provide a watch list like your competitor Hot Copper and present all the most recent posts pertinent to the watch list when one opens ASF. I have about 20 stocks in my Hot Copper watch list and when I open Hot Copper it will present me with all recent posts concerning those stocks in reverse chronological order. And each post has a topic header which indicates what is being discussed. So when I open Hot Copper now, on the first page (my home page) I get about 100 posts relating to stocks in my watch list that were made in the last 2 - 3 days. About 20 relate to CSL and they are discussing 3 different topics. If a topic doesn't interest me, I can skip without having to read the contents of those posts and just open posts for those topics I am interested in.

As far as I can see I cannot do this on ASF. Apart from having to search to find a stock I am interested in, I then have to read each post to see if they are discussing something that interests me about the stock, as there is no topic heading. I just can't be bothered.

As I said, IMO it is not the General Chat that is the problem with ASF, but the fact that it is not user friendly when it comes to stock posts.

This is about the 5th or 6th time I have made this observation about ASF. Each time, as above, I have included the proviso _Perhaps I don't understand how to use it properly. _However, no one has ever responded saying that's right, you don't know how to use it properly, which suggests to me that I am right about the ASF design.

All I can say is that if political or other non-stock related discussion is stifled in General Chat, I will have no reason to visit ASF.

Just an addendum to this post. Often when I open Hot Copper and look at the recent posts and topics being discussed about my watch list stocks, I can usually establish in about 20 seconds that nothing is being discussed of interest to me and move on to some other website. I would guess that it would take me at least 30 minutes to do the same in ASF. I don't have this amount of time to waste just to find out there is nothing I want to read here today. With HC, I can do this 10 or 20 times a day meaning I will get on to their site and register clicks or what ever metric interests their advertisers. If there wasn't General Chat, there is no way I would do that several times a day on ASF for stocks, possibly wasting 30 minutes to see nothing new is posted of interest to me.


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## IFocus (3 November 2020)

Joe, I think you are being very unfair in regards to the single poster(Bas).

However if the politic discussion on your site is a bight to your business then I have no objection what's so ever as to what ever you do.

I would however point out that this period in time / western history is one of the great turning points never to be seen again......ever.

This point in history will determine the forces that carry humanity forward either on the basis of culture wars / populists / wealth verse fairness /or science verses political power and then we have the rise of China  which I think will eventually over whelm Australia regardless.

Then there is the pandemic that alone will bring change no matter what.

Considering all of the above and more the discussions have been mild (really) given the forces involved.

However its your site and if its not good for you then pull the plug

Cheers


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## bellenuit (3 November 2020)

I'm not trying to push Hot Copper, but just trying to illustrate what makes ASF a big no no for me in relation to posting about stocks. In case what I mentioned above about my HC home page is not something people are familiar with, this is the first screen I am presented with when I go into HC. In fact it is a third of what is on my home page and I can scroll down to get another two pages like this. If ASF could provide the same functionality, then I would much prefer to discuss stocks here.


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## Joe Blow (3 November 2020)

bellenuit said:


> With all due respect Joe, I think the ASF problems will not be solved by stifling the General Chat forums, but by improving the Stock forums.




Fair enough.



bellenuit said:


> I have mentioned this every time this discussion comes up, but the design of ASF does little to encourage stock discussion. Perhaps I don't understand how to use it properly, but I find  it difficult to find anything pertinent when I do search on Stocks. I just did a search on CSL using the search field and limited the search to the titles only. There were only two threads with CSL in the title. The one specific to CSL had about 2 posts per months on average. Just 1 each in the last two months. None of the posts has a heading to indicate what is being discussed (what aspect of CSL is being discussed).
> 
> I don't want to have to search to find a stock I want to discuss. You badly need to provide a watch list like your competitor Hot Copper and present all the most recent posts pertinent to the watch list when one opens ASF. I have about 20 stocks in my Hot Copper watch list and when I open Hot Copper it will present me with all recent posts concerning those stocks in reverse chronological order. And each post has a topic header which indicates what is being discussed. So when I open Hot Copper now, on the first page (my home page) I get about 100 posts relating to stocks in my watch list that were made in the last 2 - 3 days.




If you want to keep track of a thread then click the "Watch" button at the top of each page of a thread. You'll see it just above the first post on any thread page on the right had side. That thread will then be added to your list of watched threads. You access this list by clicking the "Watched" menu item in the Forums submenu.






You can also elect to be notified by email or a forum alert when a watched thread is updated. It is the same "Watchlist" functionality that HC has.



bellenuit said:


> About 20 relate to CSL and they are discussing 3 different topics. If a topic doesn't interest me, I can skip without having to read the contents of those posts and just open posts for those topics I am interested in.
> As far as I can see I cannot do this on ASF. Apart from having to search to find a stock I am interested in, I then have to read each post to see if they are discussing something that interests me about the stock, as there is no topic heading. I just can't be bothered.




Yes, there are currently no topic headings in threads.



bellenuit said:


> As I said, IMO it is not the General Chat that is the problem with ASF, but the fact that it is not user friendly when it comes to stock posts.




Well I accept that there are some shortcomings and room for improvement. However, in terms of feedback there is very little consensus about what people specifically want changed, although you have given me some food for thought. More opinions or feedback from other ASF members is most certainly welcome.



bellenuit said:


> This is about the 5th or 6th time I have made this observation about ASF. Each time, as above, I have included the proviso _Perhaps I don't understand how to use it properly. _However, no one has ever responded saying that's right, you don't know how to use it properly, which suggests to me that I am right about the ASF design.




I'm sure there are some ways of doing things here that you are probably not aware of. I should provide a tutorial in a post somewhere, and will do so within the next week.

I'm not keen on making ASF like HC but I am prepared to take useful features that may exist there and try to incorporate them here. As I mentioned above the same "Watchlist" functionality exists here it's just accessed from a link in a different place. Obviously any changes won't happen overnight but I will do what I can to make some improvements in the short term.


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## Joe Blow (4 November 2020)

IFocus said:


> Joe, I think you are being very unfair in regards to the single poster(Bas).




I'm sorry but bas posts 95% of his posts in political threads. Most of them consist of a sentence or two with a link to a partisan website that he agrees with. I do not find this interesting, constructive or conducive to discussion. What Bas really needs a blog and I think ASF is simply a substitute for a blog. He uses it like a blog and posts like he's posting to a blog.



IFocus said:


> I would however point out that this period in time / western history is one of the great turning points never to be seen again......ever.




I accept that, but I still don't want people here who post 50 posts a day in political threads and two posts a week in other forums. That stops now. If bas persists with it, he'll be banned. Enough is enough.



IFocus said:


> This point in history will determine the forces that carry humanity forward either on the basis of culture wars / populists / wealth verse fairness /or science verses political power and then we have the rise of China  which I think will eventually over whelm Australia regardless.




I have decided that I would rather ban individuals than eliminate political discussion entirely. Obviously it would be almost impossible to have no political discussion whatsoever. But the days of 50 posts a day in political threads are over, completely and utterly.

Anyone who is just here to post in political threads can go and do so at Facebook. ASF is a stock market forum and it will never be turned into a political forum.


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## Smurf1976 (4 November 2020)

If I could single out one problem with ASF it's that it has managed to drive away quite a few posters who made a substantial contribution, and I am referring to stock threads here, but whom someone else didn't like for whatever reason.

There's almost always more than one way to do something and whilst one way may have advantages, that doesn't mean the alternative isn't valid as such. If what someone's posting doesn't make sense then that'll come out via sensible discussion and analysis, there's no need to hound them out.

That reeks of a boys club mentality. Get rid of anyone who's lower in the hierarchy but good enough that they could potentially surpass those currently at the top. It's a problem that infests many businesses, especially large corporates and the public service, but it isn't confined to that situation. 

Having seen some of those discussions, it does put me off commenting on anything that plausibly leads down that path yes.

In saying that I'll note that there's a major difference between "I disagree with your analysis for these reasons......." versus "you're an idiot........" type of discussion. The former is what the forum needs more of, the latter has no place.


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## SirRumpole (4 November 2020)

bellenuit said:


> If there wasn't General Chat, there is no way I would do that several times a day on ASF for stocks, possibly wasting 30 minutes to see nothing new is posted of interest to me.




I guess you could start by posting something of interest yourself ?


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## Joe Blow (4 November 2020)

bellenuit said:


> You badly need to provide a watch list like your competitor Hot Copper and present all the most recent posts pertinent to the watch list when one opens ASF. I have about 20 stocks in my Hot Copper watch list and when I open Hot Copper it will present me with all recent posts concerning those stocks in reverse chronological order.




I just added 11 stocks to my watched threads list in about five minutes. My watched threads page now looks like this:






Isn't this kind of what you are after, except the new posts aren't listed individually? If you click on any of the thread titles you'll be taken to the most recent unread post in that thread.


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## Smurf1976 (4 November 2020)

Probably the last I'll say on this but this is at least partly symptomatic of a broader issue in society.

Social media, and I am including forums as part of that, is a great platform for sharing ideas on relatively niche subjects. It works with everything from your own family to entertainment to serious things like investing. It facilitates a media platform for subjects far too niche to have ever been of interest to broadcast radio, TV or print newspapers.

It is however not the way real decisions are made as to how the world operates. An author might convince their fans to buy their latest book by posting online but that's as far as it goes, they're not going to convince those who've never heard of them and who aren't following them on whatever platform. To a large extent they're preaching to the converted, those who'd have bought it anyway. 

Reaching a wider audience who aren't in what is effectively the 2020 version of a fan club still requires far more conventional means of advertising be it billboards, paid online advertising, on the side of buses, on radio or whatever or for politics it involves the same direct lobbying that has been around for decades.

Arguing that this or that should or shouldn't happen on ASF isn't going to change what actually happens, there's simply no point using the forum as a platform for lobbying.

To the extent there's an actual point in political discussion here, it's about impartially evaluating the impact of policy changes by the government or the policies of credible opposition parties who may be elected to government. Evaluating as in assessing what implications those policies have for particular companies, the markets in general or investors directly. Evaluating meaning just that - we're not going to change those policies here, there's zero chance of that.

Assessing the implications for listed companies if the Democrats win the US election is of at least some relevance to the forum, especially to the extent that Australian companies are affected.

Arguing which side ought to win is completely pointless however since there'd be very few who are voting in the election and who are reading this forum. No matter how compelling your argument, it's a completely wasted effort posting it on a stock market forum based in Australia.


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## Tisme (4 November 2020)

Hi guys!😁

Who you gonna blame this time?


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## PZ99 (4 November 2020)

Tisme said:


> Hi guys!😁
> 
> Who you gonna blame this time?



Whoever loses


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## bellenuit (4 November 2020)

Joe Blow said:


> Isn't this kind of what you are after, except the new posts aren't listed individually? If you click on any of the thread titles you'll be taken to the most recent unread post in that thread.




It's an improvement and I didn't know one could do that. But it is only a part of the way and a very small part. Having the new posts listed individually is really what I want and also a topic header. For ASF, if there is activity in 15 of my watched stocks, I have to click on each and read the posts to see if it is discussing a topic of interest. As I said, this could take half an hour for fairly active stocks and what a waste of time if nothing of interest to me is discussed. When you look at the Hot Copper extract I posted above, to do the same only takes seconds, and because it only takes seconds I might do it 10 times a day. They get the clicks. There is no way I am going to go into ASF once an hour and click on each active stock that I follow to see if what is new is something I am interested in reading or contributing to.

I am just trying to be honest in telling what deters me from using the stocks part of ASF.


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## SirRumpole (4 November 2020)

Tisme said:


> Hi guys!😁
> 
> Who you gonna blame this time?




Still you !!!!


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## Logique2 (11 February 2022)

Just a message to you Joe as Mod,

I think ASF General Chat is about the most balanced and well moderated chat forum around, credit to you for this..

I reckon Pollies and advisors on all sides would be regular visitors in here.

But may I suggest an added ASF functionality,.. for people to 'user-side' block the General Chat forum if they so  wish?

I'm sick of coming in here after work and makng a goose of myself..repeatedly🙁


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## Joe Blow (11 February 2022)

Logique2 said:


> But may I suggest an added ASF functionality,.. for people to 'user-side' block the General Chat forum if they so  wish?
> 
> I'm sick of coming in here after work and makng a goose of myself..repeatedly🙁




This functionality already exists. Just enter the General Chat forum, and look at the top and to the right of the list of threads. You will see the following:







Click the "Ignore" button, then when the pop up window appears, click "Ignore" again ensuring that all the checkboxes are checked. The General Chat forum will then disappear from ASF.


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## Logique2 (11 February 2022)

Joe Blow said:


> This functionality already exists. Just enter the General Chat forum, and look at the top and to the right of the list of threads. You will see the following:
> 
> View attachment 137386
> 
> ...



Thank you Joe,
I will do that now.. 
Regards Logique2


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