# Food, diet, facts and myths



## MrBurns (27 April 2013)

Thought this deserved it's own thread.

The following is from another forum, this guy has done a lot of research and probably knows more than many doctors, in fact I'm sure of it.




> The first link I can think of is: http://highsteaks.com/forum/whatever/cholesterol-52.0.html
> 
> But even that is outdated already. You don't know this yet but there's a new medical/govt standard in the midst of being approved - called ATP 4 - which will all but abolish the cholesterol/lipid hypothesis and render almost all current statins and biomarker levelling drugs impotent.
> 
> How do I know this? Well, I'm not a medical practitioner, I shouldn't know this information.... Guess what - I know because of this thing that almost nobody else does - "research".


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## MrBurns (27 April 2013)

Update - 



> Actually, scratch what I said above, it will take them months/years to get through and the only thing they'll learn is that cholesterol is almost pointless to measure. That's all they need to know - unfortunately media/doctors/everyone says the opposite.
> 
> Watch this instead - it's one hour's investment, but if cholesterol/statins affect you then you'd be silly to not.




STATIN NATION:


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## medicowallet (28 April 2013)

Statins currently show an evidence base for certain indications.

However, from the relatively simple understanding I have about them, it would be quite difficult to mount a decent cost-benefit analysis (but really, take a look at oncology and see where loads of money is spent for relatively limited gain).

Health economics is really thrown out the window when individual stories come into the picture and this is promoted by the media.

Full cost benefits should be performed, and I am sure that primary prevention, education and incentives to follow up on these would be better as a population approach, the problem is it will probably not happen in my lifetime.

So even though there is possibly some truth in the first post, I will not bother to read the link, as it will probably just be in some kind of reference that the absolute risk reduction is very small, and it costs a fortune to achieve this, then again, I am probably wrong 

MW


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## sydboy007 (28 April 2013)

Since I hit 40 last year I started buying a big bottle of plant sterol tablets from Vitacost in the USA.

Bascially it's the same stuff they have in the expensive margarines to help lower cholesterol.

When I did a checkup a few months later and got my results the nurse was quite surprised at my VERY high level of good Cholesterol.  I had a higher bad cholesterol too, but she said the ratio was on the very good side of things.  From what she said my level of 1.8 for the good was way higher than for most men who are lucky to get to 1.

I don't drink a lot, never smoked, exercise pretty much every day, so I'm hopping these cheap tablets will help to keep me from keeling over from blocked arteries or some other heart issue.


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## Longjaw (28 April 2013)

sydboy007 said:


> Since I hit 40 last year I started buying a big bottle of plant sterol tablets from Vitacost in the USA.
> 
> Bascially it's the same stuff they have in the expensive margarines to help lower cholesterol.
> 
> ...




I have never smoked nor am I a heavy drinker (until I joined this forum  ) ,I never use butter or margarine on my bread,I believe anything that is packaged is bad for me (processed) and I try to eat and drink only natural items,like water,fruits and vegetables,fish,eggs etc.

I am an avid follower of the "Fat sick and nearly dead" detox and last year before my surgery I utilized this detox and feel it was a great benefit to my health and is worth a look into to reduce cholesterol naturally without tablets.
One has to be careful they are not sucked into the sheep following involved into these "Good for you tablets"

I have had a brother and sister die in my arms that with the information I now possess could have saved their lives,makes me feel a bit stupid I didn't acquire this knowledge earlier.


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## motorway (28 April 2013)

sydboy007 said:


> Since I hit 40 last year I started buying a big bottle of plant sterol tablets from Vitacost in the USA.
> 
> Bascially it's the same stuff they have in the expensive margarines to help lower cholesterol.
> 
> ...




Cholesterol is a sterol ( animal ) . Plant sterols  are a sterol  ( plant ).

Sterols getting into the artery wall is the  event that can  cause  atherosclerosis.

When you get a cholesterol test they only measure cholesterol ( animal sterol ) .
Unless you get  a special test you can not be sure if you have high levels of plant sterols in your blood.

Plant sterols lower cholesterol levels by competing for absorption.

They also can cause poor absorption of certain vitamins.

I would be careful , the little amounts in real foods seem beneficial ( nuts etc  , olive oil )
But as a supplement or as a "functional food" , the levels need to lower cholesterol , are way above the levels  of natural intakes . plant sterols are for plants ,  cholesterol  is for Humans , without cholesterol you die .


http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/fm/flp/2008/00000003/00000003/art00009


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## motorway (28 April 2013)

Please watch the video 
Please read ( it is a good summation of where the science is )

The levels of cholesterol LDL-C what is measured is a poor maker for any individual .
BUT works as an average at a population level.

Why ? Because what matters is the number of cholesterol particles.This is not the same thing as Cholesterol levels.

Eg very low LDL-c ,but very high LDL particles


LDL particles (LDL-P), not LDL cholesterol content (LDL-C), is what drives sterols into artery walls – Don’t confuse the “number of cars ” with  the “number of passengers.”

You want to start to know your risk in Australia ?

you can not do an LDL-P Test in Australia.

But you can measure measure Apo B  (=  LDL-particles ) and Apo A-1 ( = HDL particles )
And the ratio of ApoB to ApoA-1

The Triglyceride level is very important too .


http://chriskresser.com/the-diet-heart-myth-why-everyone-should-know-their-ldl-particle-number

More detail 

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-...things-you-need-to-know-part-1/#axzz2Rjrocjtf

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-...things-you-need-to-know-part-2/#axzz2Rjrocjtf


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## motorway (5 May 2013)

This really addresses what  matters.


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## Intrinsic Value (5 May 2013)

Statins are the biggest con that have generated billions for big Pharma.

If you don't have CVD which is 75 percent of people who take statins then all the current research says that you derive no benefit from statins. What you get is a bunch of nasty side effects including: liver problems, diabetes, parkinsons, cancer etc

Caveat Emptor


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## Garpal Gumnut (5 May 2013)

Intrinsic Value said:


> Statins are the biggest con that have generated billions for big Pharma.
> 
> If you don't have CVD which is 75 percent of people who take statins then all the current research says that you derive no benefit from statins. What you get is a bunch of nasty side effects including: liver problems, diabetes, parkinsons, cancer etc
> 
> Caveat Emptor




The answer is a daily diet of.

One Aspirin

A reasonable modicum of grog

A reasonable modicum of sex

and






gg


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## bellenuit (5 May 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> The answer is a daily diet of.
> 
> One Aspirin
> 
> ...




I would suggest changing the order so that the sex is before the grog.


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## Garpal Gumnut (5 May 2013)

bellenuit said:


> I would suggest changing the order so that the sex is before the grog.




And the Sardines??

gg


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## bellenuit (6 May 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> And the Sardines??
> 
> gg




After the sex too, unless they contain some of the purported qualities of oysters.


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## qldfrog (6 May 2013)

This thread is getting fishy 

joke aside, thanks for the info, I will dig into it.


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## MrBurns (10 May 2013)

> Teens eat as many calories at Subway as McDonalds: study
> 
> A US study has found that teenagers consume almost the same amount of calories and more salt when they eat at Subway as opposed to McDonalds.
> 
> ...




http://news.ninemsn.com.au/health/2...as-many-calories-at-subway-as-mcdonalds-study


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## Intrinsic Value (10 May 2013)

MrBurns said:


> http://news.ninemsn.com.au/health/2...as-many-calories-at-subway-as-mcdonalds-study




I think that study is very favourable to Maccas and doesnt in any way reveal the truth behind the meal types.

It all depends what you pick at subway as to the salt level and meat level. If you are getting a wholemeal roll with say roast chicken and salad and a bottle of water how is that not way superior to anything that Maccas has to offer.

Further calories is not the whole story in any case. It is the type of food eaten. Maccas  has deep fried chips and highly sugared soft drinks that have a lot of other adverse health effects.

I dont buy it at all. If you picked a subway meat lovers white roll with cheese then it might be comparable to a Maccas hamburger but then you still dont have the chips and soft drinks.


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## bellenuit (14 May 2013)

Very interesting documentary now available from SBS On Demand. It shows that even though "calories in - calories out" may be the equation that determines why we put on weight, the reason why some people have no problem controlling their "calories in" may have less to do with will power and more to do with genetics and other factors.

*The Truth About Fat*

http://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/video/28413507570/The-Truth-About-Fat?utm_source=Lead-Marquee


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## johenmo (18 May 2013)

"Dis-moi ce que tu manges, je te dirai ce que tu es." [Tell me what you eat and I will tell you what you are].
_Anthelme Brillat-Savarin. Physiologie du Gout, ou Meditations de Gastronomie Transcendante, 1826_

Genetics have the biggest impact. Mine are poor re CHD. And despite 30 years of careful eating etc, I have CHD (slightly) higher than what would be expected for my age .  Funny side of it was the cardiologist seemed surprised & I wasn't.  I take but remain wary about statins.

I am reading "The Ominovore's dilemma" by Michael Pollan.  Interesting read for someone from a farm and in the food industry.  About the food chains and what we eat.  Worth a read.


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## CanOz (18 May 2013)

johenmo said:


> "Dis-moi ce que tu manges, je te dirai ce que tu es." [Tell me what you eat and I will tell you what you are].
> _Anthelme Brillat-Savarin. Physiologie du Gout, ou Meditations de Gastronomie Transcendante, 1826_
> 
> Genetics have the biggest impact. Mine are poor re CHD. And despite 30 years of careful eating etc, I have CHD (slightly) higher than what would be expected for my age .  Funny side of it was the cardiologist seemed surprised & I wasn't.  I take but remain wary about statins.
> ...




Did you watch Food Inc.? Makes fries seem like a health food, relatively speaking of course!


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## johenmo (24 May 2013)

CanOz said:


> Did you watch Food Inc.? Makes fries seem like a health food, relatively speaking of course!



No I haven't.  from a preservative, minimal processing POV fries are quite unprocessed, aren't they.  We eat oven fries only and their fat content is around the same as regular milk.  No-one says avoid regular milk because it'll kill you...


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## CanOz (7 June 2013)

*Aspartame_ Sweet Misery  What a Poisened World looks Like*

Just watched this....I had no idea....How many people have they killed? Yet still...its in all the diet crap...

My intake is from Diet Cola and Sugar Free Gum...no more. This is the link to the whole video not just the trailer....

CanOz


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## Julia (7 June 2013)

*Re: Aspartame_ Sweet Misery  What a Poisened World looks Like*



CanOz said:


> Just watched this....I had no idea....How many people have they killed? Yet still...its in all the diet crap...
> 
> My intake is from Diet Cola and Sugar Free Gum...no more.
> 
> CanOz




Are you serious?  About a minute of nothing in particular, no specific study quoted, and you suddenly implicitly believe that aspartame is going to kill you.

I have no idea whether a lifetime of using any sort of artificial sweetener will be harmful or not, but I've seen a lot of studies which conclude there is no particularly adverse effect from most of them.
Almost certainly, if artificial sweeteners have any role to play in ameliorating the exponential rise in obesity, that in itself would make them worthwhile when one considers the diseases which are all but inevitable as a result of obesity.

If you have any concerns, avoid all artificial sweeteners and just drink water instead of crappy Cola drinks etc.


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## motorway (7 June 2013)

*Splenda, Sucralose Artificial Sweetener, Could Affect Body's Insulin Response
*


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...ucralose-insulin_n_3362122.html?utm_hp_ref=tw


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## CanOz (7 June 2013)

*Re: Aspartame_ Sweet Misery  What a Poisened World looks Like*



Julia said:


> Are you serious?  About a minute of nothing in particular, no specific study quoted, and you suddenly implicitly believe that aspartame is going to kill you.




The entire doco goes for over an hour Julia...its actually quite old. The kicker though was when i discovered that Donald Rumsfeld was involved and that he did nothing and in effect acknowledged that there had been a massive cover up of the real research into the affects of this additive and went ahead and accelerated the marketing of it, bringing us to our present day situation. If you have any shred of a science background, you would not use the sweetener again....

I'm very serious. I wouldn't have posted it if i didn't think it was valuable.

CanOz


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## Julia (7 June 2013)

OK, thank you for explaining.  I'm sure, however, if you do a few searches you will find plenty of studies that are reasonably positive re artificial sweeteners.
As I said before, however, better still to drink plain water.


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## CanOz (7 June 2013)

Julia said:


> OK, thank you for explaining.  I'm sure, however, if you do a few searches you will find plenty of studies that are reasonably positive re artificial sweeteners.
> As I said before, however, better still to drink plain water.




Absolutly, or tea....

My new drink for hot weather is soda and lemon on ice...

Posted the whole thing...

CanOz


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## bellenuit (7 June 2013)

*Re: Aspartame_ Sweet Misery  What a Poisened World looks Like*



Julia said:


> Are you serious?  About a minute of nothing in particular, no specific study quoted, and you suddenly implicitly believe that aspartame is going to kill you.
> 
> I have no idea whether a lifetime of using any sort of artificial sweetener will be harmful or not, but I've seen a lot of studies which conclude there is no particularly adverse effect from most of them.
> Almost certainly, if artificial sweeteners have any role to play in ameliorating the exponential rise in obesity, that in itself would make them worthwhile when one considers the diseases which are all but inevitable as a result of obesity.
> ...




A few years ago I was advised by a nurse who visits my local chemist and does free blood pressure tests that Aspartame was harmful and that the US Government were covering up the facts. So I did some research on the net and found that nothing was being covered up and that tests by many reputable bodies found that Aspartame had no harmful effects.  

As with all these issues confronting lay people, who do you believe? In this case I decided that as I rarely drink soft drinks there was no point worrying about it.


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## CanOz (7 June 2013)

*Re: Aspartame_ Sweet Misery  What a Poisened World looks Like*



bellenuit said:


> A few years ago I was advised by a nurse who visits my local chemist and does free blood pressure tests that Aspartame was harmful and that the US Government were covering up the facts. So I did some research on the net and found that nothing was being covered up and that tests by many reputable bodies found that Aspartame had no harmful effects.
> 
> As with all these issues confronting lay people, who do you believe? In this case I decided that as I rarely drink soft drinks there was no point worrying about it.




I did consume enough of it to be concerned, especially in that I've lost vision in my right eye and the best Australian Doctor's could not explain why...

Since then i have dropped my consumption only because the additive is very hard to get here in China....

All the research i did today after the video pointed to a problem with the research....nothing conclusive but i am now skeptical enuf to just do water....

CanOz


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## johenmo (8 June 2013)

Aspartame: we don't consume artificial sweeteners esp aspartame.  In the early years of it's release I read enough of the studies to be concerned about the formation of brain tumours.  Nor was there any data available on long-term use.  We had young children & decided not to expose growing bodies to aspartame.  Coke was a rare treat - we leant towards lemonade - no colours, no aspartame - in moderation.  I now think this was a wise decision.  All 3 kids have good teeth too.

This is an old study & the evidence long term since then is not conclusive about cancer or tumour formation.  But I prefer to err on the side of caution with sweeteners.
J Neuropathol Exp Neurol. 1996 Nov;55(11):1115-23. : Increasing brain tumor rates: is there a link to aspartame?

I'm wary of food additives.  If weight is an issue then avoidance or moderation in consumption of regular soft drinks is a better choice.  even better is Julia's choice of water.  And cheaper from the tap.  Though Canoz might not like tap water where he is!


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## MrBurns (8 June 2013)

Aspartame - 

I went to a specialist a while ago about a foot problem, he told me he had a patient who had trouble walking, quite bad, they tested her for motor neurone disease it was so bad, nothing was found.

He saw her in the waiting room drinking diet coke, he asked her how many of those she drank in a day..........about 8 she replied.

When she stopped her symptoms disappeared, she had aspartame poisoning.

He also said if anyone tries to alert the public they get sued, not sure about that part but apparently they are very aggressive. 

I drink it with brandy but I don't think I consume enough to effect me...........I hope.

Google is full of it.

http://www.sweetpoison.com/aspartame-information.html


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## Intrinsic Value (9 June 2013)

Where there is conflicting information better to err on the side of caution and avoid all together. Anything artificial is problematic in any case.


The taste of many of those lo cal or diet drinks is disgusting in any case so if I drink soft drinks which I do occasionally it is the sugar based ones.

As for the weight issue the majority of people I see drinking these diet drinks are already overweight so it makes me wonder


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## finicky (9 June 2013)

There's talk that tumeric has health benefits. More precisely the component of tumeric called curcumin. I think it was the lower incidence of colon cancer amongst the south asian population segment in Britain that put researchers onto the scent. For a  while I was adding tumeric to everything, then I found an 'activated' curcumin capsule product that I now use more. You can buy it cheaper at online pharmacies than at health food shops. I passed it by the family GP and got no adverse comment

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17959521

Scientists trial curry chemical in dementia fight
abc.net.au/news

Scientists are investigating how curcumin - a chemical compound found in the powdery curry spice turmeric - can help in the fight against dementia.

A clinical trial has started at a Sydney retirement village where 100 residents will take supplements of curcumin and be given MRIs.

Curcumin is the compound that gives turmeric is rich yellow colour. Scientists have found it is also a powerful antioxidant, an anti-inflammatory, and may halt the onset of Alzheimer's and dementia by clearing the body of a protein called beta amyloid within the region of the brain associated with memory and learning.

Ralph Martins, a professor of ageing and Alzheimer's disease at Edith Cowan University, is conducting the clinical trial in 
Sydney with the McCusker Alzheimer's Research Foundation, the Brain and Mind Research Institute and the Royal Prince Alfred Medical Imaging Services.

"I would liken what amyloid is to Alzheimer's disease to what cholesterol is to heart disease," he told PM.
"If you get too much beta amyloid, you get Alzheimer's disease."

Professor Martins says a lot of research in the past has been directed towards how to treat Alzheimer's disease when symptoms appeared.
"What we currently know as clinical Alzheimer's disease is probably the end stage of disease," he said.
"So the disease is cooking in people's brain for as much as 20 years and what we're finding in the healthy normal people is that a third of them will have this toxic amyloid in their brain.

The ABC page link for the above extract no longer active ^^^


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## CanOz (9 June 2013)

finicky said:


> There's talk that tumeric has health benefits. More precisely the component of tumeric called curcumin. I think it was the lower incidence of colon cancer amongst the south asian population segment in Britain that put researchers onto the scent. For a  while I was adding tumeric to everything, then I found an 'activated' curcumin capsule product that I now use more. You can buy it cheaper at online pharmacies than at health food shops. I passed it by the family GP and got no adverse comment
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17959521
> 
> ...




That's quite interning...the compound is also an approved color agent....we used it for color trials in potato products at one company I worked for in the past. 

CanOz


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## Julia (9 June 2013)

Turmeric is also reputed to have anti inflammatory properties.

Coincidentally, I came across mention of what is described as "a 100% natural sugar free sweetener".
"It looks and tastes just like sugar but has less calories and carbs than sugar.  'Perfect Sweet' has little effect on blood sugar levels and helps prevent sugar and carb cravings.  It is the perfect substitute for sugar and artificial sweeteners.

Generic is Xylitol.  A brief search shows it has about two thirds the calories of sugar, so maybe not that exciting in weight loss capacity.  Interesting effect is that it has apparently been proven positive for dental health.


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## CanOz (9 June 2013)

Julia said:


> Turmeric is also reputed to have anti inflammatory properties.
> 
> Coincidentally, I came across mention of what is described as "a 100% natural sugar free sweetener".
> "It looks and tastes just like sugar but has less calories and carbs than sugar.  'Perfect Sweet' has little effect on blood sugar levels and helps prevent sugar and carb cravings.  It is the perfect substitute for sugar and artificial sweeteners.
> ...




Hey that's what's in my chewing gum here in china ! That's great news....thanks julia!


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## Julia (9 June 2013)

CanOz said:


> Hey that's what's in my chewing gum here in china ! That's great news....thanks julia!



So now with every chomp you can revel in the fact that you are creating dental health, a slender silhouette, and not risking nasty tumours etc.


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## CanOz (9 June 2013)

Julia said:


> So now with every chomp you can revel in the fact that you are creating dental health, a slender silhouette, and not risking nasty tumours etc.




Yes, exactly....will do some research into Sorbitol as well.

thanks again Julia!

CanOz


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## johenmo (10 June 2013)

Turmeric - contraindicated with some medications (Aspirin, NSAIDs). Possibly with some blood pressure & cholesterol meds.  I thought about this but because of the meds I take I will stick to eating it in curries etc. But I would try it if it wasn't for this.

Xylitol - excess use may have a laxative effect.  It's not calorie free.


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## Tyler Durden (5 March 2014)

Thought this would be the most relevant thread...

Few days ago my friend found out he has gallstones and will now most probably have surgery. He described the pain as like "a knife inside you trying to stab its way out". That was enough information to make me reflect on my diet, so now I have made a conscious effort to avoid really fatty foods. 

I used to have Macca's and KFC probably around once a week or once a fortnight, but I will try to go cold turkey on those now. I exercise regularly, but my dad also had gallstones when he was younger, and I read that it can be hereditary.

Anyone had any experience with gallstones?


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## rumpole (6 March 2014)

OK, get a load of this

High protein, low carbohydrate diets can shorten (Bill) your life 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-05/low-carb-diet-may-shorten-your-life-study-finds/5299284

Sometimes I think we should just eat whatever we want because next year another study will come out saying we were right all along


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## Julia (6 March 2014)

rumpole said:


> OK, get a load of this
> 
> High protein, low carbohydrate diets can shorten (Bill) your life
> 
> ...



Well, I certainly hope not too many people follow the recommendations of this one:


> "If you're interested in a longer life span and late-life health, then a diet that is low in protein, high in carbohydrate and low in fat is preferable," he said.
> 
> "You can eat as much of that as you like.
> 
> "You don't have to be hungry, you don't have to reduce your calorie intake, you can just let your body decide what the right amount of food is."




Some of the comments which follow the ABC report are appropriately critical.

In an environment of ever increasing obesity he's encouraging people to just eat as much as they like???


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## burglar (6 March 2014)

rumpole said:


> ... Sometimes I think we should just eat whatever we want because next year another study will come out saying we were right all along




Bad for you, then good for you, ...

Bad for you again, now good for you!!

What you say sounds cavalier ... but may be safer than following fads.
My parents both lived til they were over 90.
I could do worse than emulating them.


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## macca (6 March 2014)

Tyler Durden said:


> Thought this would be the most relevant thread...
> 
> Few days ago my friend found out he has gallstones and will now most probably have surgery. He described the pain as like "a knife inside you trying to stab its way out". That was enough information to make me reflect on my diet, so now I have made a conscious effort to avoid really fatty foods.
> 
> ...




I know of  a guy that shifted his own gallstones, Google for a natural cure. 
It was something along the lines of drink cloudy apple juice for a week, the acid in that softens gallstones. Then drink some olive oil which encourages the body to release bile. Lay on your right hand side for 2 hours and then next time you do a number 2 out of your rear end comes all the gall stones.

This is a true story, he did it about 5 years ago and has never had a problem since, although he does now drink cloudy apple juice as his fruit juice of choice as a precaution.

Lots of links but here is one to get you started

http://goodguy.hubpages.com/hub/How-to-flush-out-gallstones


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## CanOz (6 March 2014)

macca said:


> I know of  a guy that shifted his own gallstones, Google for a natural cure.
> It was something along the lines of drink cloudy apple juice for a week, the acid in that softens gallstones. Then drink some olive oil which encourages the body to release bile. Lay on your right hand side for 2 hours and then next time you do a number 2 out of your rear end comes all the gall stones.
> 
> This is a true story, he did it about 5 years ago and has never had a problem since, although he does now drink cloudy apple juice as his fruit juice of choice as a precaution.
> ...




Thats hilarious Macca! Its nice to know that some natural cures work. Traditional western medicine says take out the GB, but that can prove to be the worst thing to do.

I had to research all of this a while back when i thought i had a serious gal bladder issue. I was poorly diagnosed by a Chinese doctor out in the middle of woop woop. Came back to Shanghai and got a second opinion, turns out it was actually shingles!


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## macca (6 March 2014)

CanOz said:


> Thats hilarious Macca! Its nice to know that some natural cures work. Traditional western medicine says take out the GB, but that can prove to be the worst thing to do.
> 
> I had to research all of this a while back when i thought i had a serious gal bladder issue. I was poorly diagnosed by a Chinese doctor out in the middle of woop woop. Came back to Shanghai and got a second opinion, turns out it was actually shingles!




Quite often not mentioned is the fact that once the gall bladder is removed the body has no where to store bile, consequently the bile leaks into the GI tract all the time. 

This can cause problems when it is not needed and also means that it is not available when it is needed, like when we eat fatty foods.

The guy who did it, is married to a herbalist at our local health food store and he is often there with her and he says that it worked for him.


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## rumpole (6 March 2014)

burglar said:


> Bad for you, then good for you, ...
> 
> Bad for you again, now good for you!!
> 
> ...




Lots of scones eh ?


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## Julia (6 March 2014)

CanOz said:


> Thats hilarious Macca! Its nice to know that some natural cures work. Traditional western medicine says take out the GB, but that can prove to be the worst thing to do.



Can it?  An infected gall bladder can cause septicaemia and death.




macca said:


> Quite often not mentioned is the fact that once the gall bladder is removed the body has no where to store bile, consequently the bile leaks into the GI tract all the time.



So the bile simply flows on a more constant basis into the gut rarely causing any problems.

A cholecystectomy used to be a major abdominal operation but for many years now it's usually done via laparoscopic surgery which is simple and allows for full recovery in a very short time.


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## PeterRobinson (3 August 2015)

Julia said:


> Can it?  An infected gall bladder can cause septicaemia and death.
> 
> A cholecystectomy used to be a major abdominal operation but for many years now it's usually done via laparoscopic surgery which is simple and allows for full recovery in a very short time.




Personal experience tells me that loss of the gall bladder leads to difficulty with digesting fats and hence a difficulty with absorbing fat soluable nutrients, neither of which have had positive results.


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## pixel (4 August 2015)

MrBurns said:


> Aspartame -
> 
> I went to a specialist a while ago about a foot problem, he told me he had a patient who had trouble walking, quite bad, they tested her for motor neurone disease it was so bad, nothing was found.
> 
> ...




Thanks for this info; since my wife suffers from Diabetes, we only drink sugarfree softdrinks. Not necessarily 8 cans a day; in fact, I water diet pepsi or coke down, just to give the water a bit of a taste. However, all those drinks display codes 950 and 951 in the list of ingredients.
Google "food additives by numbers" or read https://www.foodstandards.gov.au/co...ts/Food Additive Code Numbers (July 2014).pdf

I'll try cutting out those poisons and watch the effect, if any, on my chronic paresthesia.


----------



## MrBurns (4 August 2015)

pixel said:


> Thanks for this info; since my wife suffers from Diabetes, we only drink sugarfree softdrinks. Not necessarily 8 cans a day; in fact, I water diet pepsi or coke down, just to give the water a bit of a taste. However, all those drinks display codes 950 and 951 in the list of ingredients.
> Google "food additives by numbers" or read https://www.foodstandards.gov.au/co...ts/Food Additive Code Numbers (July 2014).pdf
> 
> I'll try cutting out those poisons and watch the effect, if any, on my chronic paresthesia.




Good luck pixel


----------



## bellenuit (4 August 2015)

pixel said:


> Thanks for this info; since my wife suffers from Diabetes, we only drink sugarfree softdrinks. Not necessarily 8 cans a day; in fact, I water diet pepsi or coke down, just to give the water a bit of a taste. However, all those drinks display codes 950 and 951 in the list of ingredients.
> Google "food additives by numbers" or read https://www.foodstandards.gov.au/co...ts/Food Additive Code Numbers (July 2014).pdf
> 
> I'll try cutting out those poisons and watch the effect, if any, on my chronic paresthesia.




Thanks for the info. I decided to check the sugar free Schweppes lemonade that I use and found that it too contains 950 and 951. I don't drink much of it other than use it as a mixer for whisky and might have 2 or 3 glasses a night. So maybe my daily consumption is about 300ml of Schweppes. In Summer a bit more, as I often use it just a soft drink on hot days.

I have noticed for several months now my leg muscles feel terribly fatigued and I have aches in my joints. On looking up Aspartame, I found that this is a symptom that some experience. My doctor didn't mention Aspartame, but thought my problem might be a side effect of statins that I take for my heart.

I'll give the Schweppes a miss to see how it goes. Does anyone know a sugar free lemonade without Aspartame? I do like my glasses of whisky.


----------



## MrBurns (4 August 2015)

Try soda ?


----------



## bellenuit (4 August 2015)

MrBurns said:


> Try soda ?



 Don't like it. After trying lots of different mixers, my preference is lemonade.


----------



## tech/a (4 August 2015)

bellenuit said:


> Don't like it. After trying lots of different mixers, my preference is lemonade.




Not Diabetic but my favourite is Sparkling Mineral Water and the juice of a lemon or lime.


----------



## pixel (4 August 2015)

tech/a said:


> Not Diabetic but my favourite is Sparkling Mineral Water and the juice of a lemon or lime.




I filter tap water; the fluorides give me kidney stones. (but that, too, is something no doctor dares talk about.)
But I love lemon juice, so I'll try that instead of Diet Schweppes or Pepsi or Coke. The young Eureka tree behind our Unit has just started to carry a useful payload.


----------



## sydboy007 (6 August 2015)

a few interesting articles on your gut microbiome.

best to keep up your fiber intake to keep the good ones healthy

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-guts-microbiome-changes-diet/

http://www.scientificamerican.com/editorial/innovations-in-the-microbiome/


----------



## finicky (11 February 2016)

The Hungry Bioeme

Vivid animation by CSIRO about the countless bacteria with whom we are in symbiosis.
Some good resistant starch food suggestions: greenish bananas, roast potatoes, beans. You're looking for foods that resist digestion until they arrive in the large intestine, where beneficial bacteria go to work on them!

http://www.csiro.au/hungrymicrobiome/


----------



## Gringotts Bank (11 February 2016)

tech/a said:


> Not Diabetic but my favourite is Sparkling Mineral Water and the juice of a lemon or lime.




Oooh, same.  Cold sparkling mineral water and freshly squeezed lime juice is awesome in summer.

Anyone know what techy is up to?


----------



## drsmith (17 March 2016)

The sugar quiz,

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-17/quiz-what-does-six-teaspoons-of-sugar-look-like/7086790

It reveals why Weet-Bix are so tasteless.


----------



## Tisme (6 September 2016)

I do like my Gaytimes, second only to Have a Hearts
yum

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/fo...s/news-story/7dcf139954284f9cd8c338d6d7574d9c


----------



## basilio (5 July 2018)

Finally a diet that actually works. And a presentation that is to die for. 

Check out the Heart Attack Grill diet.  _Making Americans Great again._


----------



## Gringotts Bank (16 August 2019)

I tried a so-called 'healthy' diet for the umpteenth time, but still find it makes no difference.  I keep trying because everyone tells me how great they feel when they eat "clean".  However, I feel exactly the same on a Trump-style KFC and Maccas diet as I do a Green-voting, yoga-instructing, #allergictoeverything diet.  I lose a tiny bit of weight on the latter, that's about all.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science...l-to-heart-when-eaten-with-mediterranean-die/
https://sciencetrends.com/mindset-an-often-overlooked-factor-in-nutrition-and-health/


----------



## Value Collector (16 August 2019)

Gringotts Bank said:


> I tried a so-called 'healthy' diet for the umpteenth time, but still find it makes no difference.  I keep trying because everyone tells me how great they feel when they eat "clean".  However, I feel exactly the same on a Trump-style KFC and Maccas diet as I do a Green-voting, yoga-instructing, #allergictoeverything diet.  I lose a tiny bit of weight on the latter, that's about all.
> 
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science...l-to-heart-when-eaten-with-mediterranean-die/
> https://sciencetrends.com/mindset-an-often-overlooked-factor-in-nutrition-and-health/




You don’t need to do anything fancy.

Just get Protein, Fat and carbs in the right amounts for your activity level,  combined with enough fiber, vitamins and minerals and you are pretty much set.

My vegan diet provides all those for me.

Eating a range of fruits, Veg and grains etc give you all the protein, fats and carbs you need in pretty much the exact ratio you need, the more active you are the more you eat etc.

The vegan diet also avoids the nasty saturated fats and cholesterol which is humans down fall, hence he high rates of heart attack.


----------



## systematic (16 August 2019)

Gringotts Bank said:


> I tried a so-called 'healthy' diet for the umpteenth time, but still find *it makes no difference*.  I k*eep trying because everyone tells me how great they feel *when they eat "clean".  However, I feel exactly the same on a Trump-style KFC and Maccas diet as I do a Green-voting, yoga-instructing, #allergictoeverything diet.  *I lose a tiny bit of weight* on the latter, that's about all.




Makes no difference: to what?  What are you trying to achieve?  Based on your following comments, I am guessing you either expect to feel better or lose weight - but wanted to clarify?

_What am I doing in the General Chat??? I never come here!!!_


----------



## StockyGuy (16 August 2019)

Gringotts Bank said:


> I tried a so-called 'healthy' diet for the umpteenth time, but still find it makes no difference.  I keep trying because everyone tells me how great they feel when they eat "clean".  However, I feel exactly the same on a Trump-style KFC and Maccas diet as I do a Green-voting, yoga-instructing, #allergictoeverything diet.  I lose a tiny bit of weight on the latter, that's about all.
> 
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science...l-to-heart-when-eaten-with-mediterranean-die/
> https://sciencetrends.com/mindset-an-often-overlooked-factor-in-nutrition-and-health/




I like these contrarian types of approaches.  (I'm a strict vegan but it doesn't really affect the following comments.)

In the West and much of the rest of the world the main health issue is not what we eat - it's how much we eat.  If you're within your healthy BMI range for your height (assuming you're not a bodybuilder), half the battle is won, health-wise.  If you are also a non-smoker, non-(excessive) drinker and are careful in the sun, odds are you're on a good path.

But it's simply harder to overindulge in some foods than others.  It's very easy to go over your daily kilojoule allowance eating ice creams and fast food meals and hot chips and chocolate bars etc.

But if that hunger switch still works that reliably tells you enough is enough, such that you stop eating even junk food at the right time, you can still do okay with a fairly dodgy diet - see https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/act...o-eats-baked-beans-for-every-single-meal.html .​
I do agree not all calories are equal, and that eg refined sugar and is best minimised, but not consuming unneeded energy is key to health.


----------



## SirRumpole (16 August 2019)

StockyGuy said:


> I like these contrarian types of approaches.  (I'm a strict vegan but it doesn't really affect the following comments.)
> 
> In the West and much of the rest of the world the main health issue is not what we eat - it's how much we eat.  If you're within your healthy BMI range for your height (assuming you're not a bodybuilder), half the battle is won, health-wise.  If you are also a non-smoker, non-(excessive) drinker and are careful in the sun, odds are you're on a good path.
> 
> ...




The big deal imo is the sugar and salt content of processed foods. Tins of baked beans are horrendously loaded with salt, and sauces and mustards are the same. You can get low salt versions in some cases but they can be hard to find.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (16 August 2019)

systematic said:


> Makes no difference: to what?  What are you trying to achieve?  Based on your following comments, I am guessing you either expect to feel better or lose weight - but wanted to clarify?
> 
> _What am I doing in the General Chat??? I never come here!!!_



I only want to lose a few kgs and get a bit more energy.  People I speak to say they glow with health when they go mainly plant based, which has me wondering....is this a placebo effect?  Because I feel no different.  I've been at it for a week, and I'm thinking of giving it away.


----------



## SirRumpole (16 August 2019)

Gringotts Bank said:


> I only want to lose a few kgs and get a bit more energy.  People I speak to say they glow with health when they go mainly plant based, which has me wondering....is this a placebo effect?  Because I feel no different.  I've been at it for a week, and I'm thinking of giving it away.




A week is far too short to see any difference. Your body has to detox first.


----------



## Value Collector (16 August 2019)

I don’t think the answer is to demonize sugar or fat. 

I think it’s just about not eating more than you burn off, and not eating many “empty calories” Eg calories without any vitamins and minerals attached. 

And you don’t need to worry about protein etc, as long as you are steering clear of empty calories most of the time, you will get the perfect amount of protein from the fruits, veg, grains, nuts, potatoes etc in a plant based diet.


----------



## Value Collector (16 August 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> A week is far too short to see any difference. Your body has to detox first.




Not to mention exercise, fixing your diet is great, but getting out and walking, doing some pushups etc will help you body clear those unhealthy fats from your liver and arteries will boost the results, and it will do wonders for your mind too.


----------



## Value Collector (16 August 2019)

Potatoes are great, especially when cooked wit the skins on, don’t fall into the trap of thinking they are bad.

So simple to cook, just buy the cleaned ones, stab all over with a fork, and then microwave.

A very cheap and nutritious base for meals, add your favorite other Veg like peas etc, bit of avocado some hot sauce and you have great snack.


----------



## IFocus (16 August 2019)

Gringotts Bank said:


> I only want to lose a few kgs and get a bit more energy.  People I speak to say they glow with health when they go mainly plant based, which has me wondering....is this a placebo effect?  Because I feel no different.  I've been at it for a week, and I'm thinking of giving it away.




Its easy but a couple of things 1st

1. Completely ignore VC, daughter is in her final year of a masters in dyslectics only talks evidence based science and the vegan thing doesn't cut it(how to start an argument 101   ).

2. Helps if you do some sort of activity to help see the benefits I surf and ride a bike getting the feed back reinforces the good eating habit

3. I have always been pretty lean (genetics ) and active surfing all my life and never afraid to have a crack at size, eaten pretty well.....by people around me standards, cholesterol levels at or below recommended, blood sugar etcs always good yada yada.
diagnosed last year with cardio vascular disease (no symptoms) an ended up with two stents in the LAD its in my family both sides and back down the generations......sorry son cop that.

Spoke at length to the cardiologist after the stents been put in about diet, alcohol, exercise etc.

Diet was no sugar, no hi GI, no saturated fats, allowed two standard drinks a night.

Spoke to the daughter to confirm.

No sugar is obvious and a big one, hi GI foods are OK but always the smallest portion on the dish examples are pasta, potato, white rice, a lot of breads example he gave was if eating a chicken white bread sandwich throw the bread and eat the chicken.
Saturated fats like sugar and salt are very sneaky pastries, cakes, biscuits, processed foods you dont need them.
Lean meat is fine as are eggs.

Alcohol, two standard drinks a day are a net benefit for cardio vascular disease have three and its a net negative, note for cancer its a net negative to have any.  

Any way after reading labels and doing the above actually dropped 7 kilo (I did not think I was carrying more than a couple at most) my endurance is double and at 60 years old I ride around a 100 km a week and hardly feel it, I am still riding a short surf board and yeah I am jumping out of my skin in terms of fitness diet plays a really big part.... not all of it but a big part of it.

1 week wont make any difference at least 3 to 4 months to see any benefits.


VC that vid on potato is a shocker.


----------



## Value Collector (16 August 2019)

IFocus said:


> Its easy but a couple of things 1st
> 
> 1. Completely ignore VC, daughter is in her final year of a masters in dyslectics only talks evidence based science and the vegan thing doesn't cut it(how to start an argument 101   ).




How so?

I mean that as a serious question, Because I spent the first 36 years of my life eating meat, I loved it, and would never have changed if I thought there was any reason to avoid going vegan.

I mean I searched high and low for evidence based arguments against going vegan, I just couldn't find any.

as I said in other threads, before going Vegan my favourite meal was the KFC ultimate burger meal. I would eat it probably 5 nights a week, and still would if there was any valid reason I could use to justify doing that to the chickens.

But alas, there is no need, and meat can easily be avoided, So I can't justify feeding animals into slaughter houses.



> Lean meat is fine as are eggs.




Except for the fact you are generating victims.

I mean, If you have no concern about victims, then rape is a perfectly sound model for entertaining our selves and breeding.

But if you care about the experiences of others, then rape is out of the question and we have to stick to the inconvenient model of getting consent.


-------------
As I said a sound diet is simply one that has enough Protein, Carbs and good fats, combined with vitamins and minerals.

Yes, you can source some of those Macro nutrients from animals, But not without causing undue suffering to the animals, and its totally possible to source them from plants.

So sourcing them from plants where ever possible is the moral choice.


----------



## Value Collector (16 August 2019)

IFocus said:


> Lean meat is fine as are eggs.




Do you agree with this?
Do you think dropping live male chicks into a grinder is moral?

I would actually like to know your real opinion on these "farming" practices, and whether its worth using eggs as the source of fat and protein when other sources are available.


----------



## Smurf1976 (16 August 2019)

Value Collector said:


> I would actually like to know your real opinion on these "farming" practices, and whether its worth using eggs as the source of fat and protein when other sources are available.



I had the displeasure of going inside one of those chicken batteries many years ago.

Suffice to say that should I find myself inside a battery ever again, I'll pick the military or even electrical variety over the chicken one any day. Being blown up with a canon or drenched in acid probably would actually be better than seeing again what those poor birds suffer through.

To say it's a miserable existence is an under statement in the extreme. 

More generally, I haven't done it yet but I'm seriously thinking of giving this vegetarian caper a go. Only bit I need to find a way around is that thus far any attempt has produced a cracking headache.


----------



## Value Collector (17 August 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> More generally, I haven't done it yet but I'm seriously thinking of giving this vegetarian caper a go. Only bit I need to find a way around is that thus far any attempt has produced a cracking headache.



That video is from a hatchery, they sell chicks to the farmers, so even the “free range” chickens come out of such places.

The easiest way to make the change is to just slowly cut things out over time, and build in replacements.

I actually went pescatarian (not meat except seafood), for a fair while before I went vegan, then I just slowly stopped having seafood (except for mussels once a month or so, I am not a dictionary definition vegan, because I don’t see a problem with eating mussels because they don’t have a brain)


----------



## moXJO (17 August 2019)

Cut sugar. Sugar is in fruit as weĺl so you have to limit your intake. Just plain foods (chicken breast and vegetables). Eat at least 6 smaller meals a day. 
Plenty of walking if you don't like working out.

I normally go hardcore diet/workout 3 months of the year,  then eat normal again. 

Theres all kinds of methods to lose it.


----------



## SirRumpole (17 August 2019)

Value Collector said:


> That video is from a hatchery, they sell chicks to the farmers, so even the “free range” chickens come out of such places.
> 
> The easiest way to make the change is to just slowly cut things out over time, and build in replacements.
> 
> I actually went pescatarian (not meat except seafood), for a fair while before I went vegan, then I just slowly stopped having seafood (except for mussels once a month or so, I am not a dictionary definition vegan, because I don’t see a problem with eating mussels because they don’t have a brain)




I get my eggs from the farm next door where the chickens get a free run and bite back if people come near them so they are pretty fiesty haha.

I don't have a moral problem with that, but I would with battery farms. I'm lucky that I can have my eggs and eat them too.

Why don't you keep chickens yourself VC ? Then you can make sure they are looked after and enjoy a good protein source as well.


----------



## Value Collector (17 August 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> I get my eggs from the farm next door where the chickens get a free run and bite back if people come near them so they are pretty fiesty haha.
> 
> I don't have a moral problem with that, but I would with battery farms. I'm lucky that I can have my eggs and eat them too.
> 
> Why don't you keep chickens yourself VC ? Then you can make sure they are looked after and enjoy a good protein source as well.




Most “backyard hens” are still bought as chicks from commercial hatcheries, so You still have the problem of all the males being killed, because no one wants the boys.

I was thinking about taking on some rescue hens, but constantly removing their eggs encourages them to keep laying, and that puts a lot of stress on their bodies.

If I did have rescue hens I would probably give the eggs away to family who would normally buy them commercially rather than eat them myself.

I get plenty of protein in my diet, without the saturated fat, cholesterol and salmonella risk of eggs.

155,000 people die of salmonella each year, it’s one of the reasons the egg industry in the USA is banned from using the words “healthy” or “safe”


----------



## SirRumpole (17 August 2019)

Value Collector said:


> Most “backyard hens” are still bought as chicks from commercial hatcheries, so You still have the problem of all the males being killed, because no one wants the boys.
> 
> I was thinking about taking on some rescue hens, but constantly removing their eggs encourages them to keep laying, and that puts a lot of stress on their bodies.
> 
> ...




Cooked eggs don't have a salmonella risk, only raw or undercooked ones and even then the risk is pretty low.

Basically any food is a salmonella risk.


----------



## Value Collector (17 August 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Cooked eggs don't have a salmonella risk, only raw or undercooked ones and even then the risk is pretty low.
> 
> Basically any food is a salmonella risk.




Salmonella isn’t my main concern, but it’s just part of the list of reasons I avoid eggs. 

My main reason is the chickens that get abused to produce them, and the fact they don’t contain any nutrient that isn’t readily available in other foods.


----------



## IFocus (17 August 2019)

Value Collector said:


> How so?




In terms of diet / nutrition  arguing with Vegans is the 1st sign of insanity.........seriously.

Humans can survive on eating pretty much anything, the issue is your diet OK to be living at optimum, what is your bio availability and what is happening at cell level and below both in up take and waste?

The potato vid is (sorry) folksy BS quoting some thing obscure from the 20's when todays science around athletes diets is seriously complex, individual and disciplined focused plus much much more.

In terms of morality meat etc pretty much agree with your arguments.


----------



## IFocus (17 August 2019)

moXJO said:


> Cut sugar. Sugar is in fruit as weĺl so you have to limit your intake.




Fruit is fine if you have no blood sugar issues, its the added sugar thats the issue and its sneaky where it is in a "normal" diet.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (17 August 2019)

IFocus said:


> Its easy but a couple of things 1st
> 
> 1. Completely ignore VC, daughter is in her final year of a masters in dyslectics only talks evidence based science and the vegan thing doesn't cut it(how to start an argument 101   ).
> 
> ...



Short board at 60 is a good effort...or just luck/genes.

Heart vessel stents are the latest in a long line of surgeries which don't outperform placebo surgery (ie. cut open and close).  Not only were you stable, but you were aysmptomatic.  
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/12/...stable-patients-theyre-still-widely-used.html

My relationship to medicine and medical research is at a point where I believe very little of what is published.  I'm more inclined to do whatever feels good in the moment, whether that be vegetables or Maccas, Tahitian spring water or Jaegerbombs.


----------



## Value Collector (17 August 2019)

> In terms of morality meat etc pretty much agree with your arguments




Are you taking any steps to align your actions with your moral beliefs?




IFocus said:


> In terms of diet / nutrition  arguing with Vegans is the 1st sign of insanity.........seriously.
> 
> Humans can survive on eating pretty much anything, the issue is your diet OK to be living at optimum, what is your bio availability and what is happening at cell level and below both in up take and waste?
> 
> ...




I don’t think anyone here is arguing.

Are there any vitamins or minerals that you believe you can’t get from a vegan diet?

When it comes to bio absorption, some of the biggest problems come from meat and dairy products, eg. Over 50% of the population has trouble with lactose intolerance, so they aren’t absorbing much from the dairy products or any other food eaten with it, they are just pooping it out.

And given that the heart attack causing plaques that build up in arteries are pretty much all from animal fats and cholesterol, I don’t think our bio absorption is great when it comes to these products either.


----------



## Miss Hale (18 August 2019)

Gringotts Bank said:


> I tried a so-called 'healthy' diet for the umpteenth time, but still find it makes no difference.  I keep trying because everyone tells me how great they feel when they eat "clean".  However, I feel exactly the same on a Trump-style KFC and Maccas diet as I do a Green-voting, yoga-instructing, #allergictoeverything diet.  I lose a tiny bit of weight on the latter, that's about all.
> 
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science...l-to-heart-when-eaten-with-mediterranean-die/
> https://sciencetrends.com/mindset-an-often-overlooked-factor-in-nutrition-and-health/




Have you tried the carnivore diet? A lot of people are getting good results from that. Basically animal products only although you don't have to be super strict if you don't want to. It might be what works for you. 

Some personal stories here:

http://meatheals.com/


----------



## IFocus (18 August 2019)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Short board at 60 is a good effort...or just luck/genes.
> 
> Heart vessel stents are the latest in a long line of surgeries which don't outperform placebo surgery (ie. cut open and close).  Not only were you stable, but you were aysmptomatic.
> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/12/...stable-patients-theyre-still-widely-used.html




Luck/genes certainly play a part

Interesting reading your link but then this?

 "The follow-up was only at six weeks, so longer-term outcomes aren’t known. "

So my own experience / observations.

Issue showed up via a stress test, angiogram   showed severe narrowing in the LAD.

Issues and choices, any plaque detachment in the LAD would meant blood clots and I would hit the ground dead with little to no chance of survival you know the story super fit guy drops dead confirms to people you shouldn't exercise .

If I chose meds to mitigate blood clotting I would still be limited by the blood supply to the heart muscle and still at risk of LAD blocking (although reduced) given the length of the narrowing plus be exposed to rapid blood loss due to possible injury living my adventurous / risk taking live style (giddy up you get just one shot at this life make it count).

Stents, risks for my age group and level of fitness is very low, maximise blood flow to the heart muscle allowing me full potential of active life style and with a wider blood vessel reducing risk of death should blood clothing occur as a result of plaque peeling off.

My mother had a triple by pass at 60 still going strong at 87. 

The decision to have stents was mine after discussion with cardiologist (30 years experience) and the cardiologist who did the procedure (Associate professor).

After the procedure, 30 year experience doc said 2 days after do what ever you want exercise wise,  Associate professor said 2 weeks after and keep heart rate at below 80% ish of maximum for maximum benefit minimum risk and long term survival.

I always been anal measuring my fitness when riding, time, speed and distance  (now heart rate).  

After the procedure I had a minor increase in fitness.

Two months after the stents went in  I had a step change in fitness I couldn't explain speed went up effort when down recovery time decreased.

My hydration now is 1/3 of what I needed pre stents diet and weigh will account for some but nott all.


----------



## IFocus (18 August 2019)

@Gringotts Bank  continued...... none of the above is how I feel its being actual improvement and a lowering of future risk (risk of heart attach remains).

All this and the knowledge that my grandfather passed away at 55 same issues and they were known but no effective treatment we are lucky to live in this age. 

Will it have extended my life span?........will tell you if I reach 90 .


----------



## IFocus (18 August 2019)

Value Collector said:


> Are you taking any steps to align your actions with your moral beliefs?




I was raised in a farming family where you would causally stroll down the paddock and dong some one on the head and they would be on the dinner table that night so culturally from a very different back ground.

My meat consumption has never been that high after leaving home how ever my moral beliefs are  not totally aligned to yours but understand and accept your arguments.



Value Collector said:


> And given that the heart attack causing plaques that build up in arteries are pretty much all from animal fats and cholesterol, I don’t think our bio absorption is great when it comes to these products either.




There is quite a bit more than that such as the adhesion to the artery wall the combination of sugars, glucose, starches, triglycerides and and a predisposition to cardiovascular disease that affects one person and not another my brother life time farmer, complete meat eater he is perfectly OK.

Diet is not just one thing for all one reason why vegan / plant based is not the cure all for all things its complex and different for most thats before you start dealing with allergies , diabetes and renal issues.


----------



## IFocus (18 August 2019)

@Gringotts Bank,  A final comment / observation post op is most people I meet that have had stents are still over weight and haven't modified their diet / life style which is curious.


----------



## Value Collector (19 August 2019)

IFocus said:


> I was raised in a farming family where you would causally stroll down the paddock and dong some one on the head and they would be on the dinner table that night so culturally from a very different back ground.
> 
> My meat consumption has never been that high after leaving home how ever my moral beliefs are  not totally aligned to yours but understand and accept your arguments.
> 
> ...




I come from a farming family also, I used to hunt and spear fish every free weekend for most of my 20’s.

But just because you have always done something, doesn’t mean you always should.

The heart foundation recommends eating more plant based foods, cardiologists recommmend people recovering from heart attacks reduce meat consumption ( or they put people on pills to try and counteract the effects of he meat they consume)

I agree diet is not everything, but it is probably 90% of the cause, the saturated fats and cholesterol from animal products are literarily the building blocks hat cause clogged arteries, and vegan diets have. Even shown to reverse the damage.

When my Nanny has her stroke, the first thing the doctor did as part of her recovery was to put her on anti cholesterol pills, if she was vegan, she wouldn’t need those pills everyday.


----------



## Value Collector (19 August 2019)

IFocus said:


> @Gringotts Bank,  A final comment / observation post op is most people I meet that have had stents are still over weight and haven't modified their diet / life style which is curious.




Doctors just prescribe pills to reduce cholesterol absorption, rather than actually treat the cause.


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## Klogg (19 August 2019)

Value Collector said:


> I come from a farming family also, I used to hunt and spear fish every free weekend for most of my 20’s.
> 
> But just because you have always done something, doesn’t mean you always should.
> 
> ...




A few points worth mentioning:
- The heart foundation are terribly wrong on the cause for heart attacks. High saturated fat and cholesterol intake is not proven to cause heart issues. LDL is correlated with heart attacks, but is not caused by consuming cholesterol. It's also not just the amounts of LDL/HDL, it's far more nuanced than that. LDL particle size matters a lot, which is not considered in the usual lipid panel.

- As such, statins work in some situations, but not all. There's a huge amount of information out there on Statins, and I'm no expert, so I'll stop here and just suggest that people read about it.

- Metabolic syndrome is more closely related to heart problems, through diabetes and carrying too much visceral fat.

- Fructose (of which regular 'table' sugar is half fructose half sucrose) is a big factor in causing metabolic syndrome.

Please don't take these at face value, but just read about them. 

What I've found out to date has changed my mind completely on healthy eating. I avoid grains, high GI carbohydrates and any sugars when I can. I practice intermittent fasting daily, and fast for longer periods (2-3days) on a quarterly basis. Exercise in the form of heavy lifting and HIIT (sprints, bike riding, etc.) is also in there.

I highly recommend anything by Rhonda Patrick, Dominic D'agostino or Peter Attia. Very good listening/reading.


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## IFocus (20 August 2019)

VC blanket statements just are not accurate for each individuals situation its a case of treatment and diet to suit the person and to measure the results after to confirm there effectiveness.

kloggs comments are inline with my understanding.

Pills or statins, aspirin and clopidogrel are the likely meds your Nan was prescribed

Statins reduce or block the LDL production of the liver not the absorption in my case combined with diet lowered the HDL from 3 to below 1.8.

Asprin and clopidogrel  are used to reduce blood clots reducing the risk of stroke and heart attack.

Those like me that are predisposed to cardio vascular disease can at best manage the issue not stop or reverse the process its far more complex than just saying become a vegan you you will be fine.

The advise I received was all evidence based on the current understanding of the issues. diet was part of that being a vegan wasn't all though I dont think it would do much harm being one as an adult.


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## sptrawler (20 August 2019)

IFocus said:


> @Gringotts Bank,  A final comment / observation post op is most people I meet that have had stents are still over weight and haven't modified their diet / life style which is curious.



Ifocus, what alerted you to undergo a stress test?


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## IFocus (20 August 2019)

Family history and indigestion plus was having one every 5 years, stress test is 80% accurate plus they are not that expensive. My indigestion was real not angina.

Interestingly at least to me was the issue showed up in my recovery not the run up doing the stress part.

The bloke doing the test said it was likely a false positive given how fit I was............cardiologist said  nope you have a problem.

Had a angiogram (went in through the wrist) took the cardiologist about 10 secs to find the problem.

During the stent procedure they actually block the blood supply off as they expand the blood vessel using a balloon and you get some angina (not severe) and there is bugger all difference between angina and indigestion at least for me.

Its pretty surreal you get to see the whole gig as it takes place.

I asked for some thing to relax me the cardiologist said no worries we have a cupboard of good stuff, he told the nurse to give me a few grams of some thing with a long name, she turned up and connected a syringe full of some thing and fired it into my drip...............wack man life was instantly good...book me in next week could you 

The technology is pretty amazing.


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