# DAX trading & CFDs



## dillym

hi all,my first post & hopefully not my last.Iam looking at trading the dax using ig market cfd & was wondering if anyone had any horror stories about stop running & any funny business while intraday trading.Have been told that the dealers on duty get paid by the amout of money they take.From my point of view the $1 per point looks inviting.I have trading using very small positions & have noticed the deal thru charts will cut out sometimes if you are taking small scalping trades.Does the ig chart follow the index closely or am i just dancing with the devil??
 looking forward to hear from anyone who has used ig markets & index tradind with cfds.


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## Alpha_Bet

Hi dillym. With IG you're trading their synthetic market. I strongly suggest you trade Dax via its native exchange Eurex.


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## Joules MM1

almost done for the day....a deluge of t/a including ratios

before and after




i closed directly after the second jpeg


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## Joules MM1

test


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## Joules MM1

test xl


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## dlineinvestor

I'm surprised this thread doesn't have more activity.
I've been trading the DAX live lately and it's quite the animal ! At this stage breaking even to tiny profits
Basically scalping phasing in and out of wins or losses, seems to move very fast at times totally unexpected.
Anything like a swing needs a pattern to wait for.
What are you guys using, patterns / momentum ? I guess the usual sell at resistance buy at support.
Look's like I'll need a bit of input if I want to get any further with this one.
Cheers,


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## dlineinvestor

Short DAX 8807 stop 8842
I'm thinking this is an all right place to short but market is running up for some reason pushing into resistance levels.
It's like watching a car crash in slow motion. 
Hopefully 8842 is the top of the trading range and its another run down from there ..... corn:


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## dlineinvestor

Here it is .......... live by the sword die by it too .... :engel:


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## CanOz

dlineinvestor said:


> Short DAX 8807 stop 8842
> I'm thinking this is an all right place to short but market is running up for some reason pushing into resistance levels.
> It's like watching a car crash in slow motion.
> Hopefully 8842 is the top of the trading range and its another run down from there ..... corn:




I wouldnt be given that one a second chance...hope you are watching the ES as well, it'll be leading soon if not already...


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## dlineinvestor

Well so much for a good thing  ... 
Used the volitile start to the DJIA to get out at 8810, I consider myself lucky. At one stage I was up 10 points. (went down to 8796)
What did I learn .. resistance doesn't always mean "resistance, 
I live to fight another day.


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## kingink

Just signed up with IG... Novice here.

I'm mainly looking to short the ASX. 

Bit of diversification haha, I've tried forex but it's quite hard to pick and easy to lose money on. 

Are CFDs as tough? Are you able to hold positions for a while or is it mainly a day trade thing?

Leverage makes forex hard to hold positions I feel?

Anyway, I'm all ears  

.......eyes.


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## dlineinvestor

CFD's easy or not ... 
You can make a small fortune, you just have to start out with a large one.

Whats on your chart, what are your signals ...


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## dlineinvestor

Did anyone catch this run down ? 
Clocked off at 8745


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## ThingyMajiggy

Short at red line with 2 lots(8773), still in....

What a move! In line with my Monday high of the week pushing down into Friday from the other thread. Certainly no lack of volatility around lately


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## CanOz

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Short at red line with 2 lots(8773), still in....
> 
> What a move! In line with my Monday high of the week pushing down into Friday from the other thread. Certainly no lack of volatility around lately
> 
> View attachment 59861





That's a massive trade Sam


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## ThingyMajiggy

Cheers Can  

Exited @ 8503, before it rallied 130 points back up, some huge moves to be had if you can hang onto the reigns :holysheep:


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## tech/a

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Cheers Can
> 
> Exited @ 8503, before it rallied 130 points back up, some huge moves to be had if you can hang onto the reigns :holysheep:




Great Trade Sam.
That's a $29,000 trade for 2 contracts 
in a night.
Brilliant.


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## pavilion103

Woah. That's a whole new level!


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## avion

Sam, one of these will do it for you...


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## dlineinvestor

Thingamajiggy,

Great trade, done like a pro !


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## dlineinvestor

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Cheers Can
> 
> Exited @ 8503, before it rallied 130 points back up, some huge moves to be had if you can hang onto the reigns :holysheep:




ThingyMajiggy ... 

If you can let me know it would help. 
How is it you were able to hang on for so long with your latest short DAX trade ? I mean the amount would have been real hard to refuse even at the half way point.

Did you have a strong / firm projection target or was it a case of letting it run and moving stops but not too close.

Appreciate your reply.
Cheers,


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## ThingyMajiggy

dlineinvestor said:


> ThingyMajiggy ...
> 
> If you can let me know it would help.
> How is it you were able to hang on for so long with your latest short DAX trade ? I mean the amount would have been real hard to refuse even at the half way point.
> 
> Did you have a strong / firm projection target or was it a case of letting it run and moving stops but not too close.
> 
> Appreciate your reply.
> Cheers,




Put my orders in and went to bed, easiest way to hold through big moves  I get up at around 3-4am for work so I'm only gone for a few hours. I was expecting it to go to new lows by the way the week had run so far, and the way the day had panned out before that, I was just expecting it to be a fair bit lower by the time I got up again, I don't care how it gets there, just thinking ahead and picking what I think are good areas to enter based on that idea  Turns out this time my idea was okay, was up a grand or two before I entered that trade, so was looking okay anyway, more luck than anything I think 

I'm trying to think about where it'll be in X minutes, hours, days etc. and just trying to get spots that give the least risk for that idea to play out.


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## Wysiwyg

Unfortunately and showing the other side of the game, I am down $1600 due to buying the DAX too soon. The seppo retail numbers triggered the dump and I got caught bad.


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## dlineinvestor

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Put my orders in and went to bed, easiest way to hold through big moves  I get up at around 3-4am for work so I'm only gone for a few hours. I was expecting it to go to new lows by the way the week had run so far, and the way the day had panned out before that, I was just expecting it to be a fair bit lower by the time I got up again, I don't care how it gets there, just thinking ahead and picking what I think are good areas to enter based on that idea  Turns out this time my idea was okay, was up a grand or two before I entered that trade, so was looking okay anyway, more luck than anything I think
> 
> I'm trying to think about where it'll be in X minutes, hours, days etc. and just trying to get spots that give the least risk for that idea to play out.




OK Cheers, yes that would have worked in your favour ... 

I think Techa mentioned that very tactic before !
"Set and forget"  lol ... how many times before have we ruined a good thing eh !:
Trading houses love those type of traders


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## Wysiwyg

Gee whiz, DAX copping another flogging so far tonight hey.


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## ThingyMajiggy

Wysiwyg said:


> Gee whiz, DAX copping another flogging so far tonight hey.




Not wrong, going nicely! just hit 8400, that's 600 points down from where we were 6 days ago, what a beast. 

Had a short tonight from 8580 with 1 lot, out @ 8437 just now. +EUR3500

That's all for now, this thing is going nuts, I'm heaps tired tonight so it's probably best to just watch now. 

Crikey, I keep looking over at my other screen, this is just collapsing, nearly at 8300 now since I started this post  Really thin in the book so something must be going down or someone saying something somewhere.


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## CanOz

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Not wrong, going nicely! just hit 8400, that's 600 points down from where we were 6 days ago, what a beast.
> 
> Had a short tonight from 8580 with 1 lot, out @ 8437 just now. +EUR3500
> 
> That's all for now, this thing is going nuts, I'm heaps tired tonight so it's probably best to just watch now.
> 
> Crikey, I keep looking over at my other screen, this is just collapsing, nearly at 8300 now since I started this post  Really thin in the book so something must be going down or someone saying something somewhere.




I havent seen the books so thin in three or four years...


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## >Apocalypto<

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Not wrong, going nicely! just hit 8400, that's 600 points down from where we were 6 days ago, what a beast.
> 
> Had a short tonight from 8580 with 1 lot, out @ 8437 just now. +EUR3500
> 
> That's all for now, this thing is going nuts, I'm heaps tired tonight so it's probably best to just watch now.
> 
> Crikey, I keep looking over at my other screen, this is just collapsing, nearly at 8300 now since I started this post  Really thin in the book so something must be going down or someone saying something somewhere.




Sam fantastic trades... really well done... Bank it mate don't get cocky on these tip top wins.


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## dlineinvestor

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Not wrong, going nicely! just hit 8400, that's 600 points down from where we were 6 days ago, *what a beast.*
> 
> Had a short tonight from 8580 with 1 lot, out @ 8437 just now. +EUR3500
> 
> That's all for now, this thing is going nuts, I'm heaps tired tonight so it's probably best to just watch now.
> 
> Crikey, I keep looking over at my other screen, this is just collapsing, nearly at 8300 now since I started this post  Really thin in the book so something must be going down or someone saying something somewhere.




A beast is right just made 900 in minutes ... Not a gloat ... I'm done for now "have to go out but .... just an amazing index to trade ! Once you get in on momentum it's like a train thats lost it's brakes


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## ThingyMajiggy

>Apocalypto< said:


> don't get cocky on these tip top wins.




Nah no way, trading the dax is like being in a cage with a Lion, one false move and it will definitely let you know. It has its tricks but it could rip your head off at any time as well


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## >Apocalypto<

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Nah no way, trading the dax is like being in a cage with a Lion, one false move and it will definitely let you know. It has its tricks but it could rip your head off at any time as well




I hear you Sam... some times i ask myself why i keep coming back to it. it's the ultimate test of patience and nerves! makes CL look like a Picnic. one of the last main 5 min bar down did 97 bloody points.

bit of a junky rally atm building see how much conviction they have once if the pressure re starts.


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## pavilion103

I'm studying this market with the intention to trade it next year. It will be a big step up but the potential is unbelievable.


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## kingink

Hi everyone,

So I set up an IG account for some small time CFD trading.

I'm a little confused and pissed because it's charging me $17 a pop to open AND close trades??

I was trading Nasdaq shares... Isn't the spread supposed to be more like 2c a share? (I was trading small).

It's so weird usually the broker just takes a small cut by adding a small pip difference to the displaying prices??

Can someone enlighten me, why did it cost me almost $120 to open and close 3 trades???

It'd be cheaper to trade CFD's on friggin Commsec.


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## dlineinvestor

Bit different trading this tonight, ....... !
IMO ...  my very lucky short trade,  the candle beside came to within 2 pts of my stop !
The most stressful 800 to date. I'm not kidding.
Hope you all did better than this.


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## ThingyMajiggy

Am currently long from 8717, 2 lots. Bet that first hour caught a few out!


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## tech/a

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Am currently long from 8717, 2 lots. Bet that first hour caught a few out!




Sam 
What a month!

So far a bit over $10,000 tonight and 27k last week
Beats working!


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## ThingyMajiggy

tech/a said:


> Sam
> What a month!
> 
> So far a bit over $10,000 tonight and 27k last week
> Beats working!




Going okay  

Out of 1, left the other on to see if we can reach yesterdays high around 8880ish. Off to bed soon, done for the night, early rises


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## tech/a

Sam

What's the tick value for a DAX CFD?


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## Trembling Hand

tech/a said:


> Sam
> 
> What's the tick value for a DAX CFD?




What ever you want normally goes up in $1 lots for indexes. But I don't think Sam is trading CFDs.


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## tech/a

Trembling Hand said:


> What ever you want normally goes up in $1 lots for indexes. But I don't think Sam is trading CFDs.




Thrown by the Thread title.

So you'd need 50 contracts to sort of match the Future.


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## pavilion103

So is Sam making the money stated by others or not?


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## tech/a

pavilion103 said:


> So is Sam making the money stated by others or not?




If trading the Futures contract then yes.
If the CFD then 1/50 th. approx.


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## dlineinvestor

Double top .. see if we break low from last session for a test of 8676 in coming days
Tonight's the night


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## payday

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Had a short tonight from 8580 with 1 lot, out @ 8437 just now. +EUR3500




Looks like he is trading the futures - 25 euro per point.
Who's your data provider dline?


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## ThingyMajiggy

Yes trading futures.


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## dlineinvestor

payday said:


> Looks like he is trading the futures - 25 euro per point.
> Who's your data provider dline?




CQG


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## dlineinvestor

Geez ... serious run up


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## dlineinvestor

This should b interesting ....  just got in to check, ambush orders set.


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## dlineinvestor

Basically a quick trade, entry based on the "micro trend up.


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## dlineinvestor

"Pull back coming ... watching blue T line with interest ... will get short if crossed.
"Daily trend still up 
A seasonal market trading chart attached "fyinterest."


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## dead trader

Today I went live.

Traded the DAX cfd with TD365 after having some good results in demo.

Put in 1k. Made 70% within two hours thanks to volatility.

Heart nearly stopped as I came very close to being wiped out.

Lesson for next time: pay attention to position sizing!

Look forward to tomorrow's trading day.


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## lesm

greasy_pancakes said:


> Today I went live.
> 
> Traded the DAX cfd with TD365 after having some good results in demo.
> 
> Put in 1k. Made 70% within two hours thanks to volatility.
> 
> Heart nearly stopped as I came very close to being wiped out.
> 
> Lesson for next time: pay attention to position sizing!
> 
> Look forward to tomorrow's trading day.




Welcome to the real world of live trading.

Whatever you may have overlooked using a demo account will come to fruition and reinforce what you should have been focussing on in demo and applied in the live environment. The DAX can really move when she decides to. She'll take profits back faster that she let you have them, if you get out of harmony with her.

FOMC is this week, depending on the announcement and reaction could see a fairly volatile scenario.

Besides 'position sizing' you really are way under capitalised at 1k.

Cheers


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## dead trader

*DAX trading &amp; CFDs*

Hi lesm,

The reason I opened my initial bank as 1k was due to testing the waters instead of paper trading virtual dollars - I wanted to get a taste of what real live trading was about. After a certain timeframe I will increase my total bank to a minimum of 10k.

I have already withdrawn the profits I made last night - I'm in it to trade and withdraw, not trade and keep on donating back to the market.


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## dead trader

Also, just wanted to add that I do appreciate your well meaning advice. Thank you lesm. I hope I haven't sounded harsh or abrasive.


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## StockTrader010

Elections in Greece and potential ECB QE should generate considerable volatility in the coming weeks .


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## notting

Given there has been talk of EU QE for about 6 years!! And oil is doing everything and more of what QE possibly could.  
One might wonder why they would do it now.
Gold has priced it in, Euro has priced it in v US$
May wanna take the opposite side on this one.
Certainly some heavy hitters trading against the AU vs EU started taking that position at about 1.50 on December 17 till now.
Maybe time to spank gold.


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## Lamb

A lot happened this week. When I heard news about the EUR/CHF over the squawk...SNAFU. It's an interesting case study nevertheless and perhaps forces us to question some of the variables we take as given in our trades/analysis--but really shouldn't.

European indices are rallying. DAX ATH. Intraday it has been a case of buying both creeps and leaps. Bonds have been front-run in anticipation of selling them back to the ECB at a higher price. Can we say QE is priced in? If QE is announced and within expectations it'll be a case of buying dips for a while. Where is capital flowing? QE is an experiment favoring high asset prices. What if ECB QE announces no ceiling to its purchases, or at least a very high one--double what the market is expecting. Strap in. What about how conventional it will be, and what if an announcement is deferred? Maximum pain to the downside. The events of this week are a reminder that nothing can be taken as given.


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## StockTrader010

notting said:


> Given there has been talk of EU QE for about 6 years!! And oil is doing everything and more of what QE possibly could.
> One might wonder why they would do it now.
> Gold has priced it in, Euro has priced it in v US$
> May wanna take the opposite side on this one.




I hope you didn't take the other side of the trade. Seems not all of it was already priced in.


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## ThingyMajiggy

After all the holidays, mine included, back into some trading tonight, sitting on a long with 2 lots from 10777. Nerves of steel to hang on, but want to keep watching, will call it a night soon, even though it's already called that  

Need many more hours in front of my screen! At least it's moving nicely so far tonight 

Probably should start my own thread, but it would probably only benefit me with keeping disciplined so may not be much point *crawls back under rock*


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## ThingyMajiggy

Out of both around 10860  

Need to work on some stuff, had a few knee-jerk trades before this one, a bit trigger happy(easy to do on the dax!), ended okay though.


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## ThingyMajiggy

To infinite and beyond again tonight on open, wouldn't surprise me if we had another go at 11,000 tonight, to new highs for this week already today. Never thought I'd see 11,000 on the DAX 3 or so years ago, has gone mental this market. 

Only been watching tonight, been busy with other stuff so probably not the best idea to have some trades on this market while I'm distracted.


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## >Apocalypto<

ThingyMajiggy said:


> To infinite and beyond again tonight on open, wouldn't surprise me if we had another go at 11,000 tonight, to new highs for this week already today. Never thought I'd see 11,000 on the DAX 3 or so years ago, has gone mental this market.
> 
> Only been watching tonight, been busy with other stuff so probably not the best idea to have some trades on this market while I'm distracted.




hi sam did you see that last run wtf was that 100plus pts in 2 min....


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## DeepState

>Apocalypto< said:


> hi sam did you see that last run wtf was that 100plus pts in 2 min....


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## cynic

>Apocalypto< said:


> hi sam did you see that last run wtf was that 100plus pts in 2 min....




I just had a number of short positions autoclosed on me in the blink of an eye!

When I checked the pricing, the particular FX broker I'm using took me out at a price more than 40 points above the daily high for the actual index.

I'm now eagerly awaiting their response to my emailed request for an explanation.

Needless to say, they'll be getting precious little future trading activity out of me until the matter is resolved to my satisfaction!


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## Wysiwyg

Obviously many were of the belief that 11000 ish was a fair level of resistance. Whoever bought the highs of that spike would be fleeced too. Mind you it is one of those ascending triangles so a breakout was also a possibility. It's the range and retrace that seems to have a deliberate motive though.


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## >Apocalypto<

cynic said:


> I just had a number of short positions autoclosed on me in the blink of an eye!
> 
> When I checked the pricing, the particular FX broker I'm using took me out at a price more than 40 points above the daily high for the actual index.
> 
> I'm now eagerly awaiting their response to my emailed request for an explanation.
> 
> Needless to say, they'll be getting precious little future trading activity out of me until the matter is resolved to my satisfaction!




Hi very sorry to hear that, they will claim spread cynic, but good luck with it.

any idea on why it did it? hell of a move


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## cynic

>Apocalypto< said:


> Hi very sorry to hear that, they will claim spread cynic, but good luck with it.
> 
> any idea on why it did it? hell of a move




 I've been  checking the Bloomberg and MarketWatch sites to see if there's any news from around that time, but so far nothing's jumped out at me.

As for spread - their high was approximately 70 points above the index! I'd like to see how they reconcile that with their grandiose advertisements of 1 pip spreads!


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## ThingyMajiggy

>Apocalypto< said:


> hi sam did you see that last run wtf was that 100plus pts in 2 min....




Was out for the night so missed it, will re-watch it back on replay though, looked interesting, nearly 6000 contracts in 3 mins. There will be clues just before it happened.


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## DeepState

cynic said:


> the particular FX broker I'm using




Care to share?


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## DeepState

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Was out for the night so missed it, will re-watch it back on replay though, looked interesting, nearly 6000 contracts in 3 mins. There will be clues just before it happened.




It was pretty amazing.

At or around 13:02 (Berlin) people who move markets had already come into information that the ECB was running war games on Grexit and started to move to capitalise on it, knowing that publications were forthcoming in minutes.  It looks like they took out stops or moved to do so at 13:06. An article was published by Der Speigel at 13:07 (Berlin) on line. If I were a smash and grab trader with market moving balance sheet size, about 5 mins is the lead I would take to smash the stupidity out of the market in a false flag like this.  Too much shorter and I can't profit enough, too much longer and I become the stupid one as the rest smarten up. It was subsequently referred to in the coming minutes by other wires, in news worthy of fish and chip wrappers by that stage.  By then, the market had already effectively gapped in two directions.  Somewhere between when the information became available from ECB officials to the outside world and the publication, certain people with access to money decided to act upon it.  Quite brilliant if you are into this sort of thing.  Quite terrible if you believe in fair play and all that. 

This news in itself was superfluous.  Of course the ECB is running scenarios.  They rescinded the use of Greek sovereign debt as collateral early in this saga, partly as a move to apply pressure, but partly because it reflected the possibility that Greece is going under.  You should be seriously worried if this was not happening.  However, facts and perception don't need to be consistent.  This happens too fast to think much.  All you need is context sufficient to cause worry for about a minute.  Enough context to keep break-out traders from pulling orders set on auto-trade which were placing buys at whatever break-out point seemed logical at the time as the smart money sold into them and also into stops still trying to be executed.  

That action was only on the DAX.  Gotta think bigger.

That's all it takes to get a Masaratti that month. Ferrari is becoming so yesterday.  Hehe.  Beware out there.  There be dragons and they are bloody good/bad.


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## cynic

DeepState said:


> Care to share?




Let's just say that they're often referred to by a four letter acronym beginning with the letter "F",
and to narrow it down a little further, they recently borrowed a few hundred million in order to continue their operations following last month's SNB incident.

I shall, of course, be forthwith referring to them by a somewhat more appropriate four letter word!


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## DeepState

cynic said:


> Let's just say that they're often referred to by a four letter acronym beginning with the letter "F",
> and to narrow it down a little further, they recently borrowed a few hundred million in order to continue their operations following last month's SNB incident.
> 
> I shall, of course, be forthwith referring to them by a somewhat more appropriate four letter word!




FuCX Me.  Thanks.  To be avoided.  

I have been checking on various matters relating to collection of negative equity balances etc.  A couple forgave them.  Most did not. I am undecided as to whether to use guaranteed stops or options to protect positions in markets where there is embedded event risk.  I guess 'it depends'.  What I am learning is that the true liquidity in CFDs doesn't seem to be anything like the liquidity actually in the underlying market that they portal in to.  In the ideal, they should be pretty much identical.  Of course, all is not ideal.

If someone has color on that, pls pipe up.  I'd like to understand the micro-structure better.  It seems to have macro effects - pretty much uniformly negative from a consumer's perspective.


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## cynic

DeepState said:


> FuCX Me.  Thanks.  To be avoided.
> 
> I have been checking on various matters relating to collection of negative equity balances etc.  A couple forgave them.  Most did not. I am undecided as to whether to use guaranteed stops or options to protect positions in markets where there is embedded event risk.  I guess 'it depends'.  What I am learning is that the true liquidity in CFDs doesn't seem to be anything like the liquidity actually in the underlying market that they portal in to.  In the ideal, they should be pretty much identical.  Of course, all is not ideal.
> 
> If someone has color on that, pls pipe up.  I'd like to understand the micro-structure better.  It seems to have macro effects - pretty much uniformly negative from a consumer's perspective.




Options, whilst they can be quite costly for markets with a high implied volatility, are definitely worth serious consideration.

A stop can too easily result in a position getting canned at inopportune times during such crazy whipsaws.

A bought call/put option can confer all the upside/downside protection required for a predefined cost. Those employing them for this purpose needn't fear the dreaded market gaps and crazy whipsaws, (except perhaps when the positions are on separate accounts with different brokers).

My problem, last Friday, was that I was hedging those short positions with call options on one of my accounts with another provider. 

Having my short exposure blown away at an unrealistically high price, and literally having no time to act before the market promptly returned from whence it came, seriously undermined the efficacy of the protection afforded by my call options.

Happily, the after hours futures market looks to be very close to the level where I was taken out. Hopefully I'll get the opportunity to exit the call options at a level close to the level at which my short exposure was blasted away or possibly recreate the lost short exposure on the options account.

For the benefit of those previously unaware, there are two morals to this story!

One is to think very carefully about the additional risks associated with holding opposing exposures across two providers (logistics of managing margin during sharp swings, possibility of failure of one broker etc.). 

The other is that one needs to ensure that there will always be compatibility of pricing between both brokers!

Failing to consider, either of the above, can have catastrophic effects on what might otherwise have been a perfectly sound trading strategy.


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## DeepState

cynic said:


> My problem, last Friday, was that I was hedging those short positions with call options on one of my accounts with another provider.
> 
> Having my short exposure blown away at an unrealistically high price, and literally having no time to act before the market promptly returned from whence it came, seriously undermined the efficacy of the protection afforded by my call options.





Q: Why did you have stops in place when you had options over them as well? 

What I really really want is a guaranteed trailing stop or the ability to change guarantee levels all the time (subject to some minimum distance requirement) after the trade opens.  Options being expensive, in this case, was referring to the spread. I should have said expensive to trade.  I agree with everything you have said in this regard though.  

I hold positions for weeks/months(CFD) or years(physical) and am trying to protect against killer swings from the point of my last assessment.  As your and other experiences demonstrate, the performance of CFD providers is potentially very bad indeed during these times - which are the really big wealth killers. Saving a point here and there or dealing with day-to-day slippage is really very minor compared to the outliers that define an era. In my observation, material wealth creation or destruction over a career/life is frequently compressed into a small number of events.  Diversification can only go so far. 

Ideas appreciated.


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## DeepState

DeepState said:


> Q: Why did you have stops in place when you had options over them as well?




Forget I asked.  You were auto-closed.


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## skyQuake

DeepState said:


> Q: Why did you have stops in place when you had options over them as well?
> 
> What I really really want is a guaranteed trailing stop or the ability to change guarantee levels all the time (subject to some minimum distance requirement) after the trade opens.  Options being expensive, in this case, was referring to the spread. I should have said expensive to trade.  I agree with everything you have said in this regard though.
> 
> I hold positions for weeks/months(CFD) or years(physical) and am trying to protect against killer swings from the point of my last assessment.  As your and other experiences demonstrate, the performance of CFD providers is potentially very bad indeed during these times - which are the really big wealth killers. Saving a point here and there or dealing with day-to-day slippage is really very minor compared to the outliers that define an era. In my observation, material wealth creation or destruction over a career/life is frequently compressed into a small number of events.  Diversification can only go so far.
> 
> Ideas appreciated.




IG offers FX CFDs with GSLOs, you'll pay a few pips extra for the privilege, and i'm pretty sure you can trail it.
Have not tested on the non-major pairs though.

Alternately you can utilize some structured products via the IBs, eg citiwarrant minis (essentially barrier oppies) They're marketed at retail though.


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## StockTrader010

DAX futures closed at 11,122.60 on Friday. I expect some givebacks today .

http://www.investing.com/indices/germany-30-futures


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## >Apocalypto<

cynic said:


> I've been  checking the Bloomberg and MarketWatch sites to see if there's any news from around that time, but so far nothing's jumped out at me.
> 
> As for spread - their high was approximately 70 points above the index! I'd like to see how they reconcile that with their grandiose advertisements of 1 pip spreads!




Cynic,

How did u go with them. I am interested as I am planing a account with them so i can trade off Ninja Trader but if this crap goes on maybe not. 

what reason did they give you?


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## cynic

>Apocalypto< said:


> Cynic,
> 
> How did u go with them. I am interested as I am planing a account with them so i can trade off Ninja Trader but if this crap goes on maybe not.
> 
> what reason did they give you?




I'm still awaiting their response.

Irrespective of the legitimacy (or lack thereof) I am most reluctant to continue trading with any broker (OTC or otherwise) that chooses to conduct itself in that manner.


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## DeepState

skyQuake said:


> ... i'm pretty sure you can trail it.




Nah, that's the problem.  They don't offer that combination of GS and trailing.  Other strategies have a lot of spread expense and I need to roll the limits around to boot.

The break of CHF peg is a known event risk but which would still have cost a stack of dough relative to perceived risk deployment even with some reasoned allowance obtained from monitoring the reserve accumulation as would be fairly obvious to watch (unless you work in Everest Capital).  Even then, you don't have a great idea of how much becomes too much. 

There is so much event risk in FX now that I don't feel great waltzing in with my @**** in the wind and a 'best endeavours' clause as a shield from the cold.

Anyhow, this thread is about DAX even if the issue of the day is Eurozone.

Appreciate you sharing you thinking though.  Thanks very much.


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## skyQuake

DeepState said:


> Nah, that's the problem.  They don't offer that combination of GS and trailing.  Other strategies have a lot of spread expense and I need to roll the limits around to boot.
> 
> The break of CHF peg is a known event risk but which would still have cost a stack of dough relative to perceived risk deployment even with some reasoned allowance obtained from monitoring the reserve accumulation as would be fairly obvious to watch (unless you work in Everest Capital).  Even then, you don't have a great idea of how much becomes too much.
> 
> There is so much event risk in FX now that I don't feel great waltzing in with my @**** in the wind and a 'best endeavours' clause as a shield from the cold.
> 
> Anyhow, this thread is about DAX even if the issue of the day is Eurozone.
> 
> Appreciate you sharing you thinking though.  Thanks very much.




You can still 'trail' the stop, but manually. Just had a look at the dax - min stop distance is 350pts away though...


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## cynic

>Apocalypto< said:


> Cynic,
> 
> How did u go with them. I am interested as I am planing a account with them so i can trade off Ninja Trader but if this crap goes on maybe not.
> 
> what reason did they give you?






cynic said:


> I'm still awaiting their response.
> 
> Irrespective of the legitimacy (or lack thereof) I am most reluctant to continue trading with any broker (OTC or otherwise) that chooses to conduct itself in that manner.




I just received a response from them claiming the correctness of their Germany 30 pricing during that price spike.

As they did not offer any explanation for the price difference between their product and the actual DAX index, I've had to ask again for their explanation of this pricing anomaly.


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## DeepState

skyQuake said:


> You can still 'trail' the stop, but manually. Just had a look at the dax - min stop distance is 350pts away though...



Yep, this looks like the way to go. Thanks again.


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## cynic

cynic said:


> I just received a response from them claiming the correctness of their Germany 30 pricing during that price spike.
> 
> As they did not offer any explanation for the price difference between their product and the actual DAX index, I've had to ask again for their explanation of this pricing anomaly.




Question: When isn't the DAX index the DAX index?

Here's an answer that I just received in response to a similar question:  



> ...trading platforms are derived from our select group of liquidity providers, and hence, cannot be compared to the pure market prices displayed on the websites you have mentioned. This means that the prices between these two sources may sometimes display significant differences, as occurred in your situation.
> ...


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## Wysiwyg

cynic said:


> Question: When isn't the DAX index the DAX index?
> 
> Here's an answer that I just received in response to a similar question:



Once bitten, thrice shy is an apt saying.


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## cynic

Wysiwyg said:


> Once bitten, thrice shy is an apt saying.




Indeed it is!

I just glanced at some of their product documentation and discovered (amongst other things) the following statement:



> A CFD broadly replicates the price movement of the underlying asset i.e. If the price of the underlying asset changes, so will the value of the CFD.


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## Wysiwyg

In my case where there was an extreme spread blow out, the "liquidity provider" was also to blame.


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## Joules MM1

ratios on dax both cash and cfd







live positions





the risk is immediately above the ratio, sizing according to 
price structure (impulsive or corrective chop)


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## Joules MM1

note the yellow levels move inline and conducive to price discovery, they perform two basic balancing tasks:
do they confirm more of the same (direction) or are they non-confirmative

the system is only linear to dynamic price ......so long as the ratio is of price and not a summation of price then the ratio can never be false in the same way that price is never false in it's print yet price can be false in the intent within the print, when the price and the ratio move away from each other then the intent of price is revealed.....it's a way of calling bullsh!t on yourself in your own summation of what is going on.....hence, balance!


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## CityIndex

Despite failing at its previous attempt, the German stock index could still be on course for a record high if it can hold support at the current level.

The DAX shares an extremely strong positive correlation with the Dow Jones, and was on track to follow it to a new record until last week’s FOMC minutes spooked the market.

The index has pulled back significantly since then, and now trades along its 50-day EMA and a key support level. However, it could still benefit from a rotation out of overvalued growth stocks, and into blue chip companies better suited to higher rate environments.

Will the DAX manage to bounce and hit a record close before the end of the month?


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