# Alternatives to term deposits



## manning45 (13 September 2012)

Virtually all the investments in our SMSF are term deposits and we are considering alternatives for yield as the term deposits start to mature. We hate the volatility of the share market so are looking at corporate debt, unlisted property trusts, and mortgage funds. We are talking to FIIG about corporate bonds but we are interested in opinions on unlisted property trusts and mortgage funds given the problems experienced during the GFC. Any comments on the following: Charter Hall Direct Property Fund, Cromwell Ipswich City Heart Trust, and La Trobe Pooled Mortgage Fund?
Bob


----------



## RottenValue (13 September 2012)

The lowest risk thing for you to do is buy a share in one of the major banks - close your eyes and accept the 10% return after franking and treat any capital gain as a bonus.

Volatility is only an issue if you choose to watch the daily ups and downs and think it matters in the long run.  As an exercise, why not do some research on what your total return would be if you had of bought CBA shares on July 1 any year since 2000  (share price increase / decrease plus franked dividends received).


----------



## tinhat (13 September 2012)

You may not get the answer you want on a stock market forum as the bias from a lot of members is going to be towards shares.

In the depths of the bear market of late 2011 I had similar thoughts to you. I looked around at what bonds and hybrids were on offer at the time. Woolworths had a hybrid offering which started out with about an 8% yield.

At the end of the day however, I couldn't find a case to sell my WOW shares for their hybrids or sell my bank shares for theirs either. Firstly, with bonds, hybrids there is no franking credit. For a SMSF in pension phase that's a 30% difference on your return right there. Secondly, hybrids seem to have just as much risk and uncertainty of return as shares without any of the upside. What is the guarantee on the yield of the hybrid? It is not fixed. If you need to sell in a hurry on the secondary market there is no guarantee of what price you will get. As for bonds, what is your low yielding bond going to be worth on the secondary market if interest rates go up through the business cycle?

IMHO bank shares are fully priced at the moment given that there is not a great outlook for earnings growth over the next couple of years. Yet, they still represent a better grossed-up return that their hybrids in my assessment. As for risk to capital, well, keep a couple of years pension income as cash and don't worry about the "volatility". There is no volatility in the dividends! I don't have any trouble sleeping at night with one third of the SMSF total assets invested in the major banks shares (25% in CBA alone). But you have to sleep at night too. Some time ago in another post I did some analysis of the return on CBA shares. Even if you had purchased at the height of the boom in 2007, you would be well ahead on the dividends since then.


You might find this video of interest. It sums up my views as well:
http://www.switzer.com.au/video/peter-thornhill/


----------



## tech/a (13 September 2012)

Read the Storm Financial thread.


----------



## doctorj (13 September 2012)

FYI - my apologies for dragging this thread off topic.

The discussion about the merits of aussie banks has been split off and can now be found here:https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25412


----------



## Andrew Newman (8 October 2012)

manning45 said:


> We hate the volatility of the share market




Why hate the share market - it does what it does?

I believe a diversified portfolio should include a mix of cash, fixed interest and shares.

Also unlisted property trusts and mortgage funds are higher risk investments which I don't consider as fixed interest investments.  

Andrew Newman - Financial Adviser


----------



## Pager (14 October 2012)

When the current Term Deposit matures for my SMSF at the end of the year im looking to utilise one of the newly listed cash/Bond/fixed interest ETF,s that have listed on the ASX, all are pretty new but look like a very good alternative to Term Deposits and maybe safer than other income products like preference shares, hybrids, convertible notes etc, spoke with State Street about there products and they do sound a much better option than term deposits, thinly traded at present as they are so new but supported in the market so there is always a bid/ask spread and they pay distributions every 3 months

Here’s a list of whats available and the ASX code plus a link to info on the State Street Bond fund (BOND) which is what I was looking at

http://www.spdr.com.au/etf/fund/fund_detail_BOND.html


Australian High Interest Cash ETF 	Australian Cash 	AAA 	
iShares UBS Composite Bond Index Fund	ETF 	UBS Composite Bond Index 	IAF 	
iShares UBS Government Inflation Index Fund	ETF 	UBS Government Inflation Index 	ILB 	
iShares UBS Treasury Index Fund ETF 	UBS Treasury Index  	IGB 	
Russell Australian Government Bond ETF 	Australian Government Bonds	RGB	
Russell Australian Semi-Government Bond ETF 	Australian Semi-Government Bonds 	RSM	
Russell Australian Select Corporate Bond ETF 	Australian  Corporate Bonds	RCB 	
SPDR S&P/ASX Australian Bond Fund ETF 	S&P/ASX Australian Fixed Income Index 	BOND 	
SPDR S&P/ASX Australian Government Bond Fund  ETF 	S&P /ASX Bond Index 	GOVT 	
Vanguard Australian Government Bond Index ETF   	Australian Government Bonds	VGB


----------



## ROE (14 October 2012)

have you look at the asx listed hybrid, some high quality hybrids are very very good
I like Woolies hybrid (WOWHC)

you pocket the incomes as long as you keep it and you can sell them on market if you want to access
to the cash.

some like WOWHC you can even make money on it...it currently trades at $104 on $100 face value.

there are a lot out there just stick to the high quality business one and you do hell a lot better
than bank deposit.

there are obvious risk as it can trades below face value but stick to the top business like woolie 
your hybrid should be pretty safe.

hybrid is not as simple as term deposit but it worth wise to acquire this knowledge because each hybrid is different, some goes on forever, some goes for 5 years, some redeem with shares etc...

PS: best to fill your head with information and the area you like to park your money, most people scare because they lack the knowledge to make an informed decision, or the industries is filled with people with vested interest it hard to tell who is the good guy... finance is not hard, most people assume it hard but with a bit of research and reading you can get your ahead around most topic with competent .... no one look after your money better than you so invest in yourself and don't be afraid...


----------



## sydboy007 (10 December 2012)

check out fiig.  they hold seminars every so often on fixed interest.

they provide access to quality corporate bonds that are generally paying well above TD rates.  You will need at least 50K to invest with them.

Bank shares are OK, but they have had a pretty hard run of late so the yield is down.  Would say CBA is definitely too high.  NAB looks good on a relative basis, and ANZ seems to be getting some traction with their Asia strategy.

Unfortunately access to corporate bonds in Austrailia is quite hard compared to the USA or Europe.  I've been checking out the managed funds and most of the them want to slice off anywhere from 0.5% to 1% in fees.


----------



## Wyatt (14 April 2018)

Being a fair weather trend follower myself, the recent appearance of cloudy skies has got me fearing the bend at the end and therefore mostly sitting on the sidelines, but what to to with the capital and getting a reasonable return while the markets sort themselves out.

I do like the idea of liquidity, so a term deposit is not appealing especially considering what is on offer. I have recently put 33% in MXT which is based on Australian corporate loans with a theoretical return of 4.75% unfranked, 45% at call cash and the balance in a few remaining equities and/or low ball bids for same.

I'm not overly pleased about the cash component and wanted to know what others are doing with their lot to dramatically reduce risk and eke out some return. The investments in this case are inside a SMSF.

Thoughts?


----------



## Skate (14 April 2018)

Wyatt said:


> Being a fair weather trend follower myself, the recent appearance of cloudy skies has got me fearing the bend at the end and therefore mostly sitting on the sidelines, but what to to with the capital and getting a reasonable return while the markets sort themselves out.
> 
> I do like the idea of liquidity, so a term deposit is not appealing especially considering what is on offer. I have recently put 33% in MXT which is based on Australian corporate loans with a theoretical return of 4.75% unfranked, 45% at call cash and the balance in a few remaining equities and/or low ball bids for same.
> 
> ...




Hi Wyatt

Have a look at LIC’s (AFI & ARG) are two to consider.

Skate.


----------



## Dona Ferentes (29 November 2021)

Mortgage fund La Trobe Financial has been ordered to pay a $750,000 penalty after the Federal Court found it had engaged in false and misleading marketing of its $5 billion Australian credit fund.

The fine related to La Trobe’s descriptions that the fund’s capital position was stable _*when there was in fact a risk of capital loss*_, while the court also took exception to representations about how much notice had to be given by investors to redeem their investment.

The action was brought by the Australian Securities and Investments Commission which has embarked on a crackdown on how fixed income investments are marketed to the public. ASIC’s true-to-label initiative has ensnared a range of product providers from top-tier funds such as Blackstone Group-owned La Trobe, to less reputable ends of the market such as Mayfair 101.

ASIC deputy chairman Karen Chester said the regulator was “concerned that these investment products were being sold as stable and more liquid when they were not, and essential detail was being left in the fine print.”



> “ASIC is concerned about this type of misconduct, especially when investors are seeking yield in a low-interest rate economy,” she said in a statement.
> “Advertising is misleading when products are described as having less risk, when in fact, investors could lose some or all of their investment"


----------

