# Elite Traders



## Megabuzz

I am currently in the market for a futures trading platform with access to a live trading room with the option to piggy back trades by pros.

I have looked at Elite Traders.  Do you have any comments to offer on Elite or suggestions of other companies that do this well?

I have been a successful equities trader for 20 years and am looking to expand my scope into futures with well managed risk.  Any other advice in getting started is also very welcome.

Thanks for you help.

Megabuzz


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## investorpaul

can someone please ban this guy its obviously spam


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## Trembling Hand

Man your Spam is as subtle as a poke in the eye.

Please tell us about your successfully 20 years of trading!!


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## sammy84

I'll have 20 of whatever it is that your selling...actually...make it 25.


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## Pager

They have Website, should tell you everything you need to know about them and how to contact them etc.

http://www.elitetradersgroup.com/

Its pretty expensive from what i know, run by 2 guys one of whom i remember used to work for Tricom, sure they both have been involved with other schemes and trader education costing thousands of dollars over the years.

They claim fantastic results but don't they all : personally wouldn't go near it but each to there own.


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## nunthewiser

Dear megabuzz

Please ignore all these cyber trolls that are obviously jealous of your obviously superior expertise and experience and are only commenting here as they are victims of the "cut down the tall poppy " syndrome 

i myself are bright eyed and keen to learn everything you know and do not let a couple of hoodlums in a forum put you off from sharing your vast knowledge on equities

They obviously have evil ulterior motives behind there posts and are not classed as having the same obvious genorsity that you obviously have

thankyou

a nun


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## sammy84

After looking at their website, I am upping my order to know 50. There is a Mark Taylor testimonial. I mean who would trust Mark Taylor for trading advice....


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## kam75

I'd stay away from Elite Traders and that clown Andrew Baxter.  Went to their seminar a while back.  Total bollocks.  Same old salesman he was when he tried to flogg off his $15,000 TradeTech software.


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## Megabuzz

Guys,

Thanks for your feedback.  Looks like I might swerve Elite.

I would appreciate any suggestions of credible suppliers of trade recommendations for futures?

Or recommended reading, if I have missed one?

Regards


Megabuzz


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## brendon16

*elite traders group?*

Hi, was just looking into this elite traders product...

Has anyone used it or heard results off someone that is into it
looks interesting but cant help to think its just another standard 
hype on the internet with a nice advertising campaign.

Cheers Brendon


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## Medici

Well...
I am not a pro trader, i am just a beginner (green as new grass).

 Last knight i attended the so called Webinar with Mr Webster.
All i can say is that for a beginner i spot the crap mile away.
According to sales pitch i have to invest once of payment of around $4700 and then have a 10 to 15k to invest.
For all this i will get 21 days training, mentor confused and access to SMS notifications of possible market movement (for option trading).
After all this i have been informed that all i have to do is hold to my mobile and wait for the call ?
What a crap...
Why would i have the so called 21 days training if after this all i have to do is respond to SMS message suggestions.
Another thing is that if i trade with them, my trading fee is with Halifax and it cost around $170 per trade ?
What the....?

Does any one really is going for this ????
I hope not.

Regards

Medici


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## Timmy

Medici said:


> All i can say is that for a beginner i spot the crap mile away.




Medici, you already have a very valuable skill ... well done.



Medici said:


> Another thing is that if i trade with them, my trading fee is with Halifax and it cost around $170 per trade ?
> What the....?




 Your kidding, right?


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## Medici

Timmy, i am not kidding. The trade is $170 per trade with halifax on margin calls.
Have call from them tonight (usual follow up on suckers), and i politely denied theirs services.
How can you stop them so nobody get hurt financially ?

Medici


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## Boggo

Medici said:


> Well...
> All i can say is that for a beginner i spot the crap mile away.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Medici




Well done Medici, that's what I was getting at in the other thread last night, if you can detect bullscheiser at 100 paces you will do well.



Medici said:


> How can you stop them so nobody get hurt financially ?
> 
> Medici




You can't mate, people get sucked in by the smooth and well rehearsed patter.

I have been booted out (politely asked to leave) two "seminars" in Adelaide over the last two years, just could not sit there and listen to some salesman spout crap to some poor unfortunates who were going to hand over their hard earned money. In one case an elderly couple didn't even have a computer and were going to get one to implement this "great opportunity".

I only really asked about items such as brokerage, slippage, market gaps etc and in one case was told that my questions were too advanced for the group yet they were willing to take about $5000 off them, and that's not advanced !

Where was tech/a when I needed him 

You are going about this the right way.

Cheers


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## wayneL

Megabuzz said:


> I would appreciate any suggestions of credible suppliers of trade recommendations for futures?



====>>YOU<<====



> Or recommended reading, if I have missed one?
> 
> Regards
> Megabuzz




There are few good futures texts apart from the odd decent futures options book. The Way of the Turtle isn't bad if you like mech systems.

If you can trade stocks, futures trading is not a lot different apart from the following caveats:


There are the mechanics to consider - notice periods/expiries, contract size (being aware of face value and volatility), margin, etc. There are plenty of resources for this.

You didn't say whether you intend to trade commodity future or just stock indicies, but commodities don't trend the same way as stocks. They tend to stay in a broad range, break out every now and again and suck in the public, then collapse back into the range.

There are different fundamentals.


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## wayneL

Boggo said:


> I have been booted out (politely asked to leave) two "seminars" in Adelaide over the last two years, just could not sit there and listen to some salesman spout crap to some poor unfortunates who were going to hand over their hard earned money. In one case an elderly couple didn't even have a computer and were going to get one to implement this "great opportunity".
> 
> I only really asked about items such as brokerage, slippage, market gaps etc and in one case was told that my questions were too advanced for the group yet they were willing to take about $5000 off them, and that's not advanced !




Respect! 

Next time you do it, get someone to video and post it on YoooToooobe... that would be a laugh.


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## el caballo

Boggo said:


> I only really asked about items such as brokerage, slippage, market gaps etc and in one case was told that my questions were too advanced for the group yet they were willing to take about $5000 off them, and that's not advanced !




That is sickening to read - I wonder how these snake oilers manage to sleep at night!


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## kam75

Yep, the O'l Doctor Shmoo's.


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## Boggo

Boggo said:


> Well done Medici, that's what I was getting at in the other thread last night, if you can detect bullscheiser at 100 paces you will do well.
> 
> 
> 
> You can't mate, people get sucked in by the smooth and well rehearsed patter.
> 
> I have been booted out (politely asked to leave) two "seminars" in Adelaide over the last two years, just could not sit there and listen to some salesman spout crap to some poor unfortunates who were going to hand over their hard earned money. In one case an elderly couple didn't even have a computer and were going to get one to implement this "great opportunity".
> 
> I only really asked about items such as brokerage, slippage, market gaps etc and in one case was told that my questions were too advanced for the group yet they were willing to take about $5000 off them, and that's not advanced !
> 
> Where was tech/a when I needed him
> 
> You are going about this the right way.
> 
> Cheers




It seems that some of the personnel associated Elite Traders have taken exception to my comments on this thread and have somehow led themselves to believe that my comments were directed at them or were associated with their seminars, events or gatherings.

I am not sure how they have come to that conclusion, my comments were generic in nature and were based on two experiences with two seperate organisations who invited me to attend their 'seminars' and who then were unwilling to answer some basic questions (I am not sure why not  )

I have never attended any event hosted by Elite Traders (or anyone associated with them as far as I know) but if I ever did then their response to some of the same basic questions would shape my view of them which is currently in a healthy embryonic stage.

Boggo


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## nulla nulla

sammy84 said:


> After looking at their website, I am upping my order to know 50. There is a Mark Taylor testimonial. I mean who would trust Mark Taylor for trading advice....




He's an airconditioning sales man, right? surely you could trust him for financial advice, right?


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## sere

is anyone has recent experience with Elite Traders?

cheers


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## haho

I can tell you exactly how they are as I joined them a while ago- to my BIGGEST regret!
You join them, they give you advices what to buy and one by one they turn out to be losing trades with a very few small wins. The losses however are huge. I read something on the net about "counter trading" their own advices thus taking people's money...
(anybody has any info on that?) Costs $5500.00 with GST to join them and then watch them wiping your account clean.
I just learnt that a broker with an ECN account is a much safer and cheaper way to go.


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## Ruby

haho said:


> I can tell you exactly how they are as I joined them a while ago- to my BIGGEST regret!
> You join them, they give you advices what to buy and one by one they turn out to be losing trades with a very few small wins. The losses however are huge. I read something on the net about "counter trading" their own advices thus taking people's money...
> (anybody has any info on that?) Costs $5500.00 with GST to join them and then watch them wiping your account clean.
> I just learnt that a broker with an ECN account is a much safer and cheaper way to go.




It sounds as though it is business as usual!!   What are they offering for $5,500 these days Haho?


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## haho

Ruby said:


> It sounds as though it is business as usual!!   What are they offering for $5,500 these days Haho?



A 21 day self study course and they send you the trades they want you to take in sms and e-mail. Also, they have webinars 2 times a week and live seminars around the country every now and then...
I noticed something new too, just yesterday. On their platform, looking at the gold/USD daily chart it went down to 1321 but on MT4 platform it only went down to 1352 or so. What is that? Does anyone know?


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## Ruby

haho said:


> A 21 day self study course and they send you the trades they want you to take in sms and e-mail. Also, they have webinars 2 times a week and live seminars around the country every now and then...




Hi Haho,

Is this still the online self-study course which uses 5, 20 and 100 period moving average crossovers to give entry signals?


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## Ruby

haho said:


> ......I noticed something new too, just yesterday. On their platform, looking at the gold/USD daily chart it went down to 1321 but on MT4 platform it only went down to 1352 or so. What is that? Does anyone know?




Sorry Haho -I didn't answer the other part of your question.  Are you talking about the Gold futures contract?  If you are, it went down to about 1352 on Friday night.  If you are comparing a futures chart with a futures chart on a different platform, they still should show the same price as it is a regulated market.


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## haho

Ruby said:


> Sorry Haho -I didn't answer the other part of your question.  Are you talking about the Gold futures contract?  If you are, it went down to about 1352 on Friday night.  If you are comparing a futures chart with a futures chart on a different platform, they still should show the same price as it is a regulated market.




Hello,

Thanx for the replies. The study is more than that but not much more...
I was talking about the XAUUSD trade. Can be traded both on their platform (halifax online) and MT4. I thought too they should show the same... so what can that be?? Very suspicious...


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## nlee001

Hi there,

Please stay away from this group. Especially Andrew Baxter and Les Noon. They have wiped my account cleaned. They will scam your money away. If you try to ask for their performance for the last 12 months they will make an excuse not to give it.

Everything looks professional about them eg website, Mark Taylor, receptionists etc, its all smoke and mirrors.

You will lose big and win small. 
This is scam in which they take your money - which is alot easier than making money for you. 
The biggest regret of my life.


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## rcctradings

haho said:


> The losses however are huge. I read something on the net about "counter trading" their own advices thus taking people's money...
> (anybody has any info on that?) Costs $5500.00 with GST to join them and then watch them wiping your account clean.
> I just learnt that a broker with an ECN account is a much safer and cheaper way to go.




I know this is an old thread but I just found it. I think I've been burnt too. I concur with "*The losses are huge*".
The thing I'm not able to understand is how they can take money from traders with "counter trading" on futures and commodities trades. Aren't those trades supposed to be handled by the exchanges matching both sides transparently through the broker?
As you might've guessed, I'm a newbie too!
Some answers/explanations would be extremely appreciated as I need to work this out.
Thanks folks,
Rigo.


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## Ruby

rcctradings said:


> Some answers/explanations would be extremely appreciated as I need to work this out.
> Thanks folks,
> Rigo.




Rigo, you will never get answers or explanations from these people.  Just take the advice of others on this thread and stay away from them.  Advise all your friends to do the same.


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## CanOz

rcctradings said:


> I know this is an old thread but I just found it. I think I've been burnt too. I concur with "*The losses are huge*".
> The thing I'm not able to understand is how they can take money from traders with "counter trading" on futures and commodities trades. Aren't those trades supposed to be handled by the exchanges matching both sides transparently through the broker?
> As you might've guessed, I'm a newbie too!
> Some answers/explanations would be extremely appreciated as I need to work this out.
> Thanks folks,
> Rigo.




Well for starters you'll need to describe what, how, when and why you were trading so we all can understand what exactly it is you are not happy about.

CanOz


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## rcctradings

Thanks Canoz for taking a look at my query.
I've been signed up with them for about a year now from a total newbie start up. Yes, the joining fees for the lifetime membership was about $4500, discounted as an introductory offer at a 2-day seminar. My only knowledge was general stuff gathered from the Internet + the ASIC tutorials. So I thought they were offering "education" (how good, I didn't have any reference to compare with). Went through all the 21-steps + all the videos and resources, attended boot camps, religiously followed all online webinars, funded my account three times so I could take all recommendations and trade advices given. The things that appealed to me they provided training, and whilst learning I could start making money and growing my account trading from advice/guidance from seasoned traders. Opening the account was not difficult and did not require large start up capital (I started with $3000 as advised, not a requirement) and I could trade all instruments, commodity futures, CFDs, FX, Options, ETFs, whatever they were introducing through the trade recommendations.
As quoted in my first post from the other guy's comment, the losses were huge.  2 x daily or H4 ATR+. Looked like the stoplosses were posted as far as can be, but trade entries seemed to start too conservatively when the trend had already ran its course. That a least I understand, trends always reverse (especially in the current highly volatile conditions) and then the losses will be significant. Some trades started well and completed well, but were closed too early in fear of reversals, minimising profits, when stoplosses were hit on others at the high end due to hopes things could turn good. A lot of trades getting hit at break-even still incurring costs that do compound to become significant when the wins were minimal.
I have learnt a lot since, not just from their material but also by association as things I did not have a clue about raised questions I could Google for answers. I started realising, trading with such strategies were not indicative of sound and good analysis although the opportunities were generally well spotted.
Apart from the commissions which are quite significant (about $16-$17 for futures, spread + varying commissions on FX and ETFs, etc), I cannot understand how they could make money from us by not helping with really good trades. Hence my question.
From what I understand, winning or losing would be transparent through the broker as the actual deal is handled by the exchange? unless I'm wrong and that would explain the high level of losses.
I hope this gives enough info, if not please request some more.
Thanks
Rigo


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## rcctradings

Hi Ruby,
I just finished posting my answer to Canoz, then I saw your comment.
I know I won't get a clear answer from them and that's why I am seeking from the community's experience-knowledge. If they were to be a scam, aside from probably unduly portraying themselves as experts, would that mean that our accounts aren't really trading through the exchange?
Yes, I've started looking for other options and I'm prepared to cut my losses short.
In my answer to Canoz, I've listed a number of perceived benefits I thought I was going to get through them. Another one I forgot to mention there is they claim to have a preferential deal in term of margining, about 20% of normal margin requirements. Are such margins common with other brokers as well?
As I said, I'm prepared to move on and would be greatful if anyone could indicate other brokers offering similar setups (or better) as I described with better trade results?
It does take time to learn and it would be great to be making some money whilst doing so.
Thanks,
Rigo


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## Trembling Hand

rcctradings said:


> trading from advice/guidance from seasoned traders.



 There is your first mistake. They may be seasoned but my bet is they have never been profitable. 



rcctradings said:


> Opening the account was not difficult and did not require large start up capital (I started with $3000 as advised, not a requirement) and I could trade all instruments, commodity futures, CFDs, FX, Options, ETFs, whatever they were introducing through the trade recommendations.



Who is the broker?


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## Ruby

rcctradings said:


> Hi Ruby,
> I just finished posting my answer to Canoz, then I saw your comment.
> I know I won't get a clear answer from them and that's why I am seeking from the community's experience-knowledge. If they were to be a scam, aside from probably unduly portraying themselves as experts, would that mean that our accounts aren't really trading through the exchange?
> Yes, I've started looking for other options and I'm prepared to cut my losses short.
> In my answer to Canoz, I've listed a number of perceived benefits I thought I was going to get through them. Another one I forgot to mention there is they claim to have a preferential deal in term of margining, about 20% of normal margin requirements. Are such margins common with other brokers as well?
> As I said, I'm prepared to move on and would be greatful if anyone could indicate other brokers offering similar setups (or better) as I described with better trade results?
> It does take time to learn and it would be great to be making some money whilst doing so.
> Thanks,
> Rigo




Elite Traders make their money through your membership fees, through brokerage every time you make a trade, and by churning accounts.  They couldn't care less if you win or lose.   I don't know what sort of strategies they currently use, but the ones they were using a few years ago produced mostly losing trades.   They were not strategies at all (meaning they did not give traders an edge.)  I joined their online trading room for a short time when they charged a monthly fee (so the cost was not great then, and I never placed a trade with them), and saw very few winning trades.

The best thing we can all do about unscrupulous people is to spread the word.


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## rcctradings

> Who is the broker?




Hi TremblingHand
Halifax I believe. Don't know what to believe with those guys anymore!


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## rcctradings

Ruby said:


> Elite Traders make their money through your membership fees, through brokerage every time you make a trade, and *by churning accounts.  They couldn't care less if you win or lose.*   I don't know what sort of strategies they currently use, but the ones they were using a few years ago produced mostly losing trades.   They were not strategies at all (meaning they did not give traders an edge.)  I joined their online trading room for a short time when they charged a monthly fee (so the cost was not great then, and I never placed a trade with them), and saw very few winning trades.
> 
> The best thing we can all do about unscrupulous people is to spread the word.




This is nasty and unjustifiable.
One thing I learnt in Marketing is that it is easier to keep an existing customer than to win a new one. We were prepared to pay for the service and support, if they helped us make more money, we would be making more trades, thus more commissions for them? As I understand commissions are part of doing this kind of business, so if they were made negligible through larger wins, nobody would even notice them.
Yes 







> They were not strategies at all (meaning they did not give traders an edge.)



That is the feeling I got too. We were just placing trades into a trend and to me the stoplosses started to look like they were placed *hopefully* far enough to not get hit. That indeed does not sound like an edge.



> and saw very few winning trades



You're correct here again. More like by chance rather than strategy indeed.
I wish I had seen this thread a year ago. Would've saved me a packet.
Hopefully my contribution to it will help clarify things more for others who might come across it when considering them as an option.:bad:


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## rcctradings

rcctradings said:


> Hi TremblingHand
> Halifax I believe. Don't know what to believe with those guys anymore!




One more question I have regarding the brokerage service, can they manipulate my trades if I was to still use that part of the service only?
I've already paid for a lifetime membership albeit one side of the service being a complete let down. I'm just trying to work out whether at least the brokerage side has still got some validity?
If the brokerage can still be manipulated and not worth using, could someone be kind enough to indicate some full service Oz ones with reasonable conditions as I outlined on one of my posts above?
I'm sure with the wealth of knowledge and experience here, someone might be able to help in that regards, for people still on the steep learning curve, but ready to get into the action.:1zhelp:
Thanks for helping folks.
Rigo


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## Trembling Hand

Why the hell does anyone now days need a full service broker


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## Ruby

rcctradings said:


> I've already paid for a lifetime membership ............
> 
> Rigo




What does "Lifetime Membership" mean?  Does it mean you can get trading advice from them for a lifetime?  Do you really want any more advice from that crowd when you already know it is useless?  What can they possibly give you of any value?   

Let me reiterate.......   they care ONLY about taking your money.


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## rcctradings

Fair enough Ruby,
I got the message. I'll move on.
Thanks again folks for your help.
Rigo


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## skc

Trembling Hand said:


> Why the hell does anyone now days need a full service broker




I think he's looking for someone who can hold his hand and recommend trades for him.

The old days of "My stockbroker made me heaps of money" are probably long gone - if they ever existed, it was certainly by exception rather than norm.


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## rcctradings

skc said:


> I think he's looking for someone who can hold his hand and recommend trades for him.




Thanks SKC,
That's exactly what I meant. Might sound like the easy way out for some people, but if such a service is provided by genuinely concerned advisors, some people like myself might be prepared to pay for it as a step to help towards self support.
I do believe in the concept "you gotta spend some to make some money". Note I'm not saying give it to the sharks!
Rigo.


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## Trembling Hand

Well there are two that I know of in that case.

Nick Radge

Scott Morrison from Aliom


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## rcctradings

Thanks Trembling Hand,
I'll be checking those up.
Rigo


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## sinner

These guys seem interesting

http://www.strategiccapitalmanagement.co.nz/

Radge appears to give some endorsement to them, and interestingly it seems the dude in charge used to be one of Larry Williams (1987 WFTC champion) proteges?

You can run the trades yourself or pay them a nominal per trade fee to manage your account.


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## CanOz

sinner said:


> These guys seem interesting
> 
> http://www.strategiccapitalmanagement.co.nz/
> 
> Radge appears to give some endorsement to them, and interestingly it seems the dude in charge used to be one of Larry Williams (1987 WFTC champion) proteges?
> 
> You can run the trades yourself or pay them a nominal per trade fee to manage your account.




Pretty sure one of the principles posts on Nicks system development forum. He is a system trader from way back, i was surprised to see he had a site actually, not many in Asia doing this sort of thing.

CanOz


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## karberg

Joined their options trading arm a bit over 2 years ago - dont feel I got my moneys worth  - the recommendations have dried up - spent more on brokerage than I made on premiums - didnt like a lot of the trades - their trading picks didnt fit with my previous trading education/experience. They get the thumbs down from me on anything they might have to offer


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## Helen22

Hi all, I was interested in Elite recently and was getting lots of phone call from them. When I told them that it was impossible to know how good and trustworthy they really were and would they sign me up on a monthly fee or a system where I pay them from my profitable trades, they told me pretty quickly to get lost and I've had no more phone calls. So it tells me that they have little faith in their systems and may also be why they've moved away from the monthly subscription service...


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## Ruby

Just a heads up.......... Stephen Jennings, who used to be Andrew Baxter's sidekick, seems to have parted company with Elite Traders and is now running his own show "Jennings Capital Pty Ltd".

He's probably still churning accounts, probably still peddling the same old ............. er, 'systems' that, well, frankly you could pick up in any book (moving average crossovers.......yawn)..........   be aware!!


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## rcctradings

*Re: Elite Traders = Australian Investment Education*

Hi folks,
The new name is now Australian Investment Education ==> AIE
Why do they change names?
I think they used to be Ultimate Traders as well?


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## Porper

*Re: Elite Traders = Australian Investment Education*



rcctradings said:


> Hi folks,
> The new name is now Australian Investment Education ==> AIE
> Why do they change names?
> I think they used to be Ultimate Traders as well?




Many of these companies change names because word gets around...there are only so many newbies to draw in to their so called "systems".

Stick to the ones that have been around for years and provide full disclosure...every year and you wont go far wrong. In my opinion of course.


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## Kingbob3

Lucky I found this!!!!!
I had to sign up to this forum as I had that sigh of relief. I even had my internet banking open to transfer the funds.

The platform and company is now called My Trading Advisor, I googled the hell out of it and found nothing negative, it wasn't until the account I had to pay into was called Australian investment education so I googled that and found this! I received automated emails from Andrew Baxter and was speaking with a guy called Jackson Dean.

The cost of the app is 4 grand for a "lifetime" I told them I wasn't paying that much for something I hadn't seen work yet and got offered a one year subscription for 1400. 

For this they would manage the account through Halifax.

On another note entirely I'm an Australian citizen, moved overseas for work and now have to manage some sort of investment so I have something to retire on as I won't be making super contributions. Anyone got some books they recommend, or an entry level advice they can give me? I'm still only 30 so don't need anything to aggressive or risky.

Bob


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## Sue56

*Elite Trading - does anyone have trouble getting answers when recommended stocks fail*

In 2011 I joined Elite and took all their trades - 5 all lost money.
Last year my husband bought the training which seemed not too bad but when he took the suggested trades they all lost money.
He was told he needed to put more into every trade to reduce losses. That doesn't change the fact that they were all losers. He was testing the system before putting in more money - the system failed. So were we both unlucky?
No one from Elite wanted to talk to me back in 2011 and no-one wants to explain why the trades recommended to my husband failed.
Very very disappointed with this company.


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## freebird54

They are doing free seminars all around the country again this year - why not go along and get your questions answered?

July august and september


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## freebird54

Kingbob3 said:


> Lucky I found this!!!!!
> I had to sign up to this forum as I had that sigh of relief. I even had my internet banking open to transfer the funds.
> 
> The platform and company is now called My Trading Advisor, I googled the hell out of it and found nothing negative, it wasn't until the account I had to pay into was called Australian investment education so I googled that and found this! I received automated emails from Andrew Baxter and was speaking with a guy called Jackson Dean.
> 
> The cost of the app is 4 grand for a "lifetime" I told them I wasn't paying that much for something I hadn't seen work yet and got offered a one year subscription for 1400.
> 
> For this they would manage the account through Halifax.
> 
> On another note entirely I'm an Australian citizen, moved overseas for work and now have to manage some sort of investment so I have something to retire on as I won't be making super contributions. Anyone got some books they recommend, or an entry level advice they can give me? I'm still only 30 so don't need anything to aggressive or risky.
> 
> Bob




They are doing free seminars all around the country again this year - why not go along and get your questions answered?

July august and september


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