# Questions from a stock market beginner



## Joe Blow (13 February 2010)

There is a thread here in the Beginners Lounge forum in which those new to the site can introduce themselves to the ASF community. It has become apparent that many beginners often have a question or two that they would like to ask. Most often it is along the lines of "Where do I begin?" but it can also be something very specific.

In the past those with a couple of questions would often start a separate thread here in the Beginner's Lounge, as any questions asked in the introduction thread would often get buried fairly quickly by subsequent introductions.

I have started this thread in an attempt to keep all those questions from beginners in one place. It is my hope that, in time, this thread will become a useful resource as questions from beginners are asked and then answered by more experienced members of the ASF community. 

In future, threads started in this forum to ask one or a series of beginner questions will be merged into this thread, so if a thread you started ends up in here that is the reason why.

I should point out that any information contained in this thread, like all content on ASF, is general information only and should not be considered financial advice. For information about getting advice from a licensed adviser please refer to ASIC's consumer website, which you can find here: http://www.fido.gov.au/


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## newbie trader (21 February 2010)

*Queries from a newbie*

Hi I'm Newbie Trader,

I'm 18 and am currently studying law. I will finish my degree when I am about 23. Over the next few years I have planned (since I was about 15) to work earning money which I can invest into the stock market (have after 3 years of reading, watching, paper trading just begun investing). Once my degree is completed and provided I have enough money I hope to buy some kind of rental property. Whilst I have some idea about trading stocks (have come up with my own trading strategy as basic as it may be), I really have no idea about property investing (something which I hope to change over the next couple of years). Hence I have two questions...

(now i do realise this is the 'Aussie STOCK forum' but I am sure some of you own or have knowledge on property)

Why do people choose to invest in property over shares?

Why do people choose to invest in shares over property?

(I would be grateful for any opinions no matter how bias) :

Hope I havn't embarassed myself by asking anything to stupid but we all have to start somewhere right?

N.T


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## cutz (21 February 2010)

*Re: Queries from a newbie*



newbie trader said:


> Why do people choose to invest in property over shares?




Here's a few reasons from me (ATM),

Lower risk of financial ruin, convenience, tax paid on divvies,  ETO's give my portfolio a boost, I don't need to deal with RE agents/tenants/rates/breakdowns/building maintenance issues and all those other annoying things that come with IP.

Best of all I don't need to worry about interest rates, needless to say if rates do go back up to double digits and irresistible opportunities presented themselves on a platter, I may be changing my thinking a little.


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## dutchie (21 February 2010)

G'day NT

There are always arguments about which type of investment is the best - property or shares.

The answer is there is no answer. Both can be very lucrative if you are at the right place at the right time etc etc.

The clincher for me is the liquidity and time factors involved with share trading.

If you need to liquidate your investment quickly for what ever reason then with shares you can do it within days (or a week). With property a minimum of 3 months (could be years!). 

Ask yourself which is more flexible.

Cheers

dutchie


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## dutchie (21 February 2010)

G'day Joe

I think this thread has good potential.

I would think that the most benefit would be achieved if answers to specific questions were moved so that they were grouped below each question even though they might be out of sequence.

Is this something you would consider or in the too hard basket?


Cheers

dutchie


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## Joe Blow (21 February 2010)

dutchie said:


> I think this thread has good potential.
> 
> I would think that the most benefit would be achieved if answers to specific questions were moved so that they were grouped below each question even though they might be out of sequence.
> 
> Is this something you would consider or in the too hard basket?




Hi Dutchie,

Unfortunately, posts in a thread cannot be moved around and are ordered strictly according to the time that they were posted.

I can see your point though, and there may be a little bit of confusion if answers to different questions start overlapping.

If those replying to questions could quote the specific question(s) that they are responding to much of this confusion may be avoided.

Hopefully we won't get too many questions too quickly and by the time a new question comes up the previous question will have been answered satisfactorily.


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## milkshake (22 February 2010)

i just have a simple question about purchasing shares.
For example:
if i bought shares on a monday and the share price went up 10 cents on a wednesday, will i be able to sell my shares?

because when i look at my portfolio (i use commsec) it says 

register units           available units
        0                         XXXX

does this mean i cannot sell the shares, since it's unregistered?


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## nunthewiser (22 February 2010)

milkshake said:


> i just have a simple question about purchasing shares.
> For example:
> if i bought shares on a monday and the share price went up 10 cents on a wednesday, will i be able to sell my shares?
> 
> ...




They can be sold the moment you buy them ........

It takes 3 days for settlement i.e the paperwork of the transaction is sorted ..But you can sell them at any time after purchase


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## milkshake (22 February 2010)

nunthewiser said:


> They can be sold the moment you buy them ........
> 
> It takes 3 days for settlement i.e the paperwork of the transaction is sorted ..But you can sell them at any time after purchase




ahh ok thank you very much!


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## Jack.c (23 February 2010)

For me, one key reason for a guy just starting out with not too much capital would be potentially risking a large proportion in one deal.

For example if you decide to sell that property but unable to do so for a profit after all costs you could be down maybe say 30k for example.

That's like someones entire trading account gone in one trade. Whereas with the account you could build on it and risk what you are comfortable with.


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## phantomcamel (24 February 2010)

Property too expensive in W.A.


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## nunthewiser (24 February 2010)

phantomcamel said:


> Property too expensive in W.A.




And the question is ?

Also depends on where you look . still a few jewels to be had if one is quick, cheeky and able


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## phantomcamel (24 February 2010)

nunthewiser said:


> And the question is ?
> 
> Also depends on where you look . still a few jewels to be had if one is quick, cheeky and able



 I guess you are right. Out of my league I think. Had a look at Onslow to see what the prices up there are - $600K, nearly fell of my chair!


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## nunthewiser (24 February 2010)

phantomcamel said:


> I guess you are right. Out of my league I think.  !




Only out of your league if thats the way you want to view it ...........

Anyways this thread for stock market questions and we should not clutter it with property stuff ......

Welcome to ASF .


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## newbie trader (24 February 2010)

Nun,

I asked the initial question about property/shares that joe decided to make into this thread or w/e it is...so they are just answering my question I guess.

N.T


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## nunthewiser (24 February 2010)

Sorry my mistake i didnt scroll back far enough.


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## Tysonboss1 (24 February 2010)

*Re: Queries from a newbie*



newbie trader said:


> Why do people choose to invest in property over shares?
> 
> Why do people choose to invest in shares over property?




Two very different asset classes, Both with different pros and cons. Once your portfolio is of a decent size it does make sense to include both.

The strengths of one asset class will cover the weaknesses in the other.

Property Pros - Regular weekly cash flow, Stable prices, You control it, Banks will lend against it on favourable terms, great inflation hedge.

Property Weakness - Slow growth, low return on capital employed, Large capital outlay, low liquity you have to manage tenants,

Share strength - Higher possible return on capital so high capital gains, smaller capital outlay, higher liquity, greater diversification,

share weakness - cashflow is less regular (6 monthly), Prices can flutuate by more than 5% in a day, you don't control the company, Banks charge higher interest when lent against on more unfavourable terms,


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## Greedy_Kev (7 March 2010)

*Re: Queries from a newbie*



newbie trader said:


> (now i do realise this is the 'Aussie STOCK forum' but I am sure some of you own or have knowledge on property)
> 
> Why do people choose to invest in property over shares?
> 
> ...




I think most of the replys have been very bias towards shares, since it is a stock forum.

I invest in both shares and rental property(more so property), and have had great success with both, with shares u dont have to invest as much, thus you can diversify your portfolio, you can also make alot more money, however with the gains there are also high risk with shares even with big blue chip companies, for example during the recent financial crises, shares such as MQG plummeted losing about 80% of its value(other companies may not have lost as much, however i was devastated after this event), where as house prices only came down slightly, so you get stability with property. also with rental properties your rent always increases and as time goes by the rent will be greater than your interest repayments thus you can just sit on it and it pays off itself, there are also alot of tax benifit from negative gearing (in terms of shares, can only be done if you are a professional trader) and you can avoid paying tax with houses, for example.

since it will be your first home, if u buy under $650, 000, you can claim First home buyers grant, live in it for 12months and claim as primary place of residence before you rent it out, rent it out for only UPTO 6 yrs and then sell it, since you lived in it first and sold within 6 years you dont pay any CPT(captial gains tax) thus if the house went up from $600, 000 to $900, 000 or even 1M+ its all TAX FREE PROFIT! where as in shares $300, 000 would be taxable and goes towards your income tax (45%).

However shares can give massive returns especially small mining shares, for example i bought some DLS shares at 6.6c and sold them for 8c after only a month! so when mining goes up they go up alot more than property can ever return.

another down side to shares is that banks do not value the equity in shares as much as houses, thus you can not borrow as much against your equity to maximise your investment opportunity and rates are generally lower for mortgages.

However with shares you can buy more when the share price goes down to lower your overall buying price, where as property this is impractical.

Please note that i dont invest as much in shares as i do in property so i may not know as much about shares please correct me if i made any mistakes. Also on a final note, i believe rental income is usally more stable than shares if you know what you are doing such as not over increase rent( even if the tennent moves out, if your rent is reasonable you SHOULD be able to get another tenant in with limited lost of rent).

Hopefully this helps, sorry about articulating it so poorly, as i'm just writing what i know and comes to my head.


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## So_Cynical (7 March 2010)

*Re: Queries from a newbie*



Greedy_Kev said:


> there are also alot of tax benifit from negative gearing (in terms of shares, can only be done if you are a professional trader) and you can avoid paying tax with houses.




Wrong Kev...anyone can claim interest expenses on money borrowed to buy shares as an investment, interest on margin loans also tax deductible.



Greedy_Kev said:


> where as in shares $300, 000 would be taxable and goes towards your income tax (45%).




Also wrong...hold shares for more than 1 year and get a 50% CGT discount, and who the hell is really worried about all this stuff if your in a 45% tax bracket....you already have too much money, wake up and go sit on a beach somewhere.  and if you are in a 45% tax bracket you really should be very interested in accumulating franking credits.


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## newbie trader (14 March 2010)

I'm quite new to the share market and have heard many people I know rave about such things as the Eureka report and Rivkin report. They basically contend that they do the work for you and all you need to do is read the respective reports and pick a stock to buy. I took a look at them both and am really not sure whether it would be a waste of money subscribing to one as i'm confident that I can do the research myself, however, would they be useful to corroborate my findings? Do they infact relieve you of having to do your own research (i've never personally been a fan of letting others do important thing for me as i find you get better outcomes by doing things yourself)?

If anyone has subscribed to these types of reports or if you have some knowledge of them then your input would be greatly appreciated.

N.T


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## Joe Blow (14 March 2010)

newbie trader said:


> I'm quite new to the share market and have heard many people I know rave about such things as the Eureka report and Rivkin report. They basically contend that they do the work for you and all you need to do is read the respective reports and pick a stock to buy. I took a look at them both and am really not sure whether it would be a waste of money subscribing to one as i'm confident that I can do the research myself, however, would they be useful to corroborate my findings? Do they infact relieve you of having to do your own research (i've never personally been a fan of letting others do important thing for me as i find you get better outcomes by doing things yourself)?
> 
> If anyone has subscribed to these types of reports or if you have some knowledge of them then your input would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> N.T




Hi N.T.

There is a thread in the *Trading/Investing Resources* forum that discusses various newsletters/reports and people's experiences with them. 

It can be found here.


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## Onceblue (16 March 2010)

I'd like to know whether it is possible to opt out of dividend reinvestment after a stock has gone ex-dividend and before dividend is paid?
I've always opted for reinvestment but recently I thought I'd sell one stock but then remembered I'd be left will a couple of stragglers courtesy of dividend. 
I assume that record date is the key but can't find that date for my stock when I look at Etrade. Is there a forumla based on ex-dividend date?


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## newbie trader (17 March 2010)

Question: i've been watching a particular stock for a few weeks now and it seems to go down -20/25% one day (or a few times during the day) then back up 20/25% the next and its been doing this consistently. Are people just buying on the -20/25% then selling on the 20/25%? If its as easy as that you could make 60-100% quite easily a week or am i missing something here (which i probably am)?

N.T


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## nunthewiser (17 March 2010)

newbie trader said:


> Question: i've been watching a particular stock for a few weeks now and it seems to go down -20/25% one day (or a few times during the day) then back up 20/25% the next and its been doing this consistently. Are people just buying on the -20/25% then selling on the 20/25%? If its as easy as that you could make 60-100% quite easily a week or *am i missing something here (which i probably am)?*
> N.T




The market depth m8.........as in the queue ........have a look at how long it takes to get filled in the queue on the buy then follow the queue in the sell ........not as easy as it sounds.


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## stokie (22 March 2010)

Hi all,

I'm a soon to be new investor currently researching/building my basic knowledge.

Question regarding stop losses:

When you set a stop loss order, is there any guarantee's that you will actually sell your stock at the price you set? As if the price drops quickly, won't it be possible for no buyers to be available at your stop loss price?

If the price then drops below the stop loss price, does the broker then just sell the stock as soon as possible (regardless of the price)?

Thanks


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## tech/a (22 March 2010)

stokie said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm a soon to be new investor currently researching/building my basic knowledge.
> 
> ...




You can set a stop limit order but you run the risk of price trading straight through your limit and continuing to fall.
I use them and widen the limit dependant on liquidity.
Has saved me a great deal in slippage at both ends Buy and sell.


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## stokie (23 March 2010)

Right, thanks tech/a, that's what I figured. So basically you need to keep an eye on the price, even with stop losses.

Ok, another question:

I've seen a fair few people post up their trading strategies in the form of a code, how exactly do you run these codes? Do online brokers allow you to input a code or something?

(again, excuse the uneducated-ness of me)


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## Sir Osisofliver (24 March 2010)

stokie said:


> Right, thanks tech/a, that's what I figured. So basically you need to keep an eye on the price, even with stop losses.
> 
> Ok, another question:
> 
> ...




Code?  Any chance of an example of what you mean? I can't tell if you are talking about an Amibroker programming code (or some other programming code) or some strategy rules (that might _look_ a bit like code).

Cheers

Sir O


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## sageintraining (28 March 2010)

Fundamentals guy here...

Just wondering, the stock market is so vast and daunting.. Like where do i even start? I just wanna start the grunt work and just employ some little techniques ive picked up. I honestly dont mind slaving over balance sheets and cashflows but the problem is actually locating the information thatll lead me to put pen to paper!

Like I've seemed to have missed out with the recent GFC, the banks would've been a perfect time to jump in at..do i have to wait it out for another catastrophe? Which industries are out of favour atm? REITs? Retail would be weaker? Has media already hit its peak?

yes, annoying little questions but hey, im keen!
kind regards,
futuresage.


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## GumbyLearner (28 March 2010)

sageintraining said:


> Fundamentals guy here...
> 
> Just wondering, the stock market is so vast and daunting.. Like where do i even start? I just wanna start the grunt work and just employ some little techniques ive picked up. I honestly dont mind slaving over balance sheets and cashflows but the problem is actually locating the information thatll lead me to put pen to paper!
> 
> ...




It's quite simple. You want to make money?????? Well use a little deductive logic and you'll decide what's worth investing in.

Want to profit from your decisions???????

Sorry can't tell you. That's for YOU to work out. Welcome to ASF!

Cheers
Gumby


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## cutz (28 March 2010)

sageintraining said:


> Fundamentals guy here...




Hi Funnymentals guy,

How do you explain a stock market beating during the GFC part one with a subsequent 50% bull**** rally, surely the mentals didn't change that much in that period.

Get my drift ?


Throw all that stuff out the window, psychological sentiment drives the market, mainstream media helps it along, derivatives are your best friend.


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## pixel (28 March 2010)

cutz said:


> Hi Funnymentals guy,
> 
> How do you explain a stock market beating during the GFC part one with a subsequent 50% bull**** rally, surely the mentals didn't change that much in that period.
> 
> ...



Good point, cutz;

A couple of observations, based on this blogger's years of experience: 
http://www.rettmer.com.au/TrinityHome/Trinity/Musings.htm#oninfluences:


> *How do we let ourselves be influenced into buying or selling a particular share?*
> 
> * Listening to others - assuming they're greater experts
> What if they aren't? What if they merely repeat each other, confirming how much in agreement they are, how great a stock this is? I make this observation with particular frequency in chat rooms, where proponents of one opinion keep applauding each other, while shouting down any conflicting views, until they have the thread all to themselves. Less experienced visitors find it's all unanimous - so the share must have a great future. Right?
> ...




ALso check the next article on critical thinking.


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## Julia (28 March 2010)

Many companies make their financial details (balance sheet etc) available on their websites.

If you join Etrade (which you can do at no cost and you do not have to immediately put funds in an a/c) there is a reasonable amount of fundamental info available for all listed companies.  Etrade - and I'd suppose other online brokers - also have e.g. filters which let you sort companies by sector, market cap etc.

They also have an Education section which you'd probably find useful including an introduction to TA.  The ASX website also has education modules.


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## newbie trader (28 March 2010)

I've been reading through threads but cannot seem to ascertain an answer to this question:

If im holding stocks for less than 1yr but not making over the 6000p/a do I have to pay any kind of tax?

NT


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## mr.g (16 April 2010)

*Real newbie - any advice is appreciated*

Hey everyone, 

So as it stands i havnt been involved in the stock market at all. I started researching everything i could possibly find out about the stock market around about a week ago. Ive just started reading, 'trading for a living'.

This topic has probably been covered in the past, so im sorry for doubling up 

Im just after some advice and information on the stock market...
What platforms do you use to buy stocks?
I read a lot about doing your own research... what exactly does this mean? Do i look up individual companies, is there one spot i can find this information... and what information is it i need to look for when it comes to researching (sorry for the dumb questions, but i have very little idea)

Im only looking to invest a small amount to begin with... $500 - $1000... any advice on what would be some good investments. 


Thanks guys


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## brent012 (16 April 2010)

*A few questions.*

Ok first question is what is the minimum age for trading on the stock market in Australia? I presume it was 18 but haven't found anything which says you cannot do it if you are under 18. If it is 18 i can get around it by giving my money to my parents and getting them to do it right - or will this lead to tax problems?

I am not currently earning any money but when i was younger I delivered junk mail for awhile and earned a bit over 10 grand after around 5 or so years. I started putting it in as long term deposit 2 or 3 years ago and it was good when the interest rate was about 8% but i think it was only 3.25% last time so when it matures i think i will try investing it elsewhere. I am genuinely interested in business, the stock market and foreign exchanges and am not just doing it to attempt to make quick money.

If I make smart choices and not take dangerous risks with all of the money at once i will probably be able to earn more then what i would with interest right? Lastly, are there any reccomendations for resources offline? Like are there any good financial newspapers, software or brokerages which provide helpful information?


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## newbie trader (16 April 2010)

*Re: Real newbie - any advice is appreciated*



mr.g said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> So as it stands i havnt been involved in the stock market at all. I started researching everything i could possibly find out about the stock market around about a week ago. Ive just started reading, 'trading for a living'.
> 
> ...




If by platforms you mean broker you should really look around and see what suits your individual trading needs. I for instance trade 'every now and again' and use Commsec's online brokerage service which suits my current needs.

Doing your own research in the context of online forums means that you should never act or rely on what people post as they are only expressing their opinion. 

In relation to the plain meaning of 'do your own research' (researching companies etc), I dont think as a newbie I am qualified to answer this so I shall leave it up to someone else. However there are magazines that you can subsribe to that provide you with information on companys and their reccomendations. Theres some information on the online brokerage services websites (once you've created an account you can view this) and there are also subscription services within the brokerage services which allow you to see more detailed reports/information. The information in these magazines/broker websites should only be the foundation of your research into a specific company. So if you see a stock reccommended dont go out and buy it straight away, look into the company in more depth and then make an educated decision.

Unless youre only looking for experience, I don't think it would be beneficial for you to invest anything below 4000/4500. Remember you have to take into account brokerage which on Commsec for example is $40 in and out (therefore if you invested $500 you would need to make 8% to break even). I began investing after about 3yrs of reading and paper/demo trading a bit over 2 months ago with 4500 (therefore, 0.89% to break even).

If you only began looking at the stock market a few weeks ago I would suggest firstly reading some books as well as the posts on this forum as some are very helpful. Once youve read a bit you could maybe try paper/demo trading. Then maybe move into a real trade, but in the end its up to you to choose we all learn differently. 

Hope this provides you with some help, although I am quite useless.


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## mr.g (16 April 2010)

Thanks newbie trader, that has helped me a lot so far.

much appreciated....  i have a long way to go lol


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## pixel (16 April 2010)

*Re: Real newbie - any advice is appreciated*



newbie trader said:


> If you only began looking at the stock market a few weeks ago I would suggest firstly reading some books as well as the posts on this forum as some are very helpful. Once youve read a bit you could maybe try paper/demo trading. Then maybe move into a real trade, but in the end its up to you to choose we all learn differently.
> 
> Hope this provides you with some help, although I am quite useless.



Hi NT;
Seems to me, you just graduated from newbie to sound advisor 

If I may add a few minor details for Mr.G:
You can start at the ASX website: http://www.asx.com.au/, where you'll find an excellent (and certainly authoritative) Education section.

As for research, click on "Prices, Research & Announcements". If you want to know the fundamentals of a company, that's where you find the bare facts, untarnished by somebody's opinion, analyst's assessment, or - Heaven forbid! - "ulterior motives".

If, like many of us, you intend to get a feel for the odds of a share's new direction, try and get hold of some websites (or seminars - but I'm reluctant to recommend any in particular) that explain the basics in easily understood terms. On http://rettmer.com.au/TrinityHome/Links I have compiled a few websites that I have found offer some solid, neutral advice. (By "neutral" I mean they're not trying to flog you their particular piece of software or advisory letter; they won't mind if you end up buying some lessons from them or their sponsors, but even IncredibleCharts give you a totally free package where you can experiment with indicators to your heart's content.)

As regards your timing: Please let me remind you that Trading is a business and profession like any other. You wouldn't want to design and build your own house before you've done a few years' apprenticeship and studies. Don't believe for one second that you'll become a successful Trader or Investor by simple Deed Poll or declaring "I'll be a Trader starting Noon next Monday."


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## johenmo (16 April 2010)

*Re: Real newbie - any advice is appreciated*



mr.g said:


> Im only looking to invest a small amount to begin with... $500 - $1000... any advice on what would be some good investments.
> Thanks guys




Take sometime and plot differing amounts of a trade (say $500 increments) against commissions (e.g. CS $20 each way, Etrade $15 each way, Interactive Brokers $6 min each way (0.8%).  I did this then channelled more funds to go with IB (still have CS).  $12 versus $40 is a lot of % at low parcel size.  On $100 buy it's 1.2% vs 4%.  I prefer to add teh 3% to my pockets than the broker.

Use the time saving to learn/read/think & decide what you will do - yr tading plan.  Lotsa books in the library.

Good luck.


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## newbie trader (16 April 2010)

*Re: Real newbie - any advice is appreciated*



pixel said:


> Hi NT;
> Seems to me, you just graduated from newbie to sound advisor
> 
> As regards your timing: Please let me remind you that Trading is a business and profession like any other. You wouldn't want to design and build your own house before you've done a few years' apprenticeship and studies. Don't believe for one second that you'll become a successful Trader or Investor by simple Deed Poll or declaring "I'll be a Trader starting Noon next Monday."




Dont know if the top remark was sarcasm or not but I dont claim to know anything about investing and trading (mainly because I don't ). I'm simply giving my opinion and expounding the knowledge that I have gained thus far on my journey.

I agree with you 100%, the market will be there whenever you feel that youre ready!


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## pixel (16 April 2010)

newbie trader said:


> Dont know if the top remark was sarcasm or not




Definitely no sarcasm, NT;

I reckon you've summed it up very aptly - especially the bit about "began investing after about 3yrs of reading and paper/demo trading".


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## Julia (16 April 2010)

johenmo said:


> Take sometime and plot differing amounts of a trade (say $500 increments) against commissions (e.g. , Etrade $15 each way,



Where are you getting the Etrade $15 each way?   With ten or fewer trades per month it's $32.95 each way including GST.


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## johenmo (23 April 2010)

Julia said:


> Where are you getting the Etrade $15 each way?   With ten or fewer trades per month it's $32.95 each way including GST.




My apologies - tks for correecting me. US etrade is $10.  Was thinking Bell direct but typed eTrade.  DYOR!!!!

Point being made was look around, think and work out what suits your particular situation.

I find IB suits my needs but not newbie friendly.


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## opulence (8 May 2010)

*Beginner questions.*

ASF,

Having read Market Wizards, I'm nearly finished reading John Murphy's book on Technical Analysis of the Financial markets. It's a huge and very comprehensive book! However, I do remain sceptical (yet to prove to myself it works) of technical analysis. The Buffet quote of " I knew technical analysis didn't work when I turned the price chart upside down and still got the same answer" scares me a bit as I am drawn to the concise nature of technical analysis but what I found from market wizards was that traders from both sides of the fence had done well by mastering each respective type of analysis. I guess either analysis works so long as you're good at it. Is that a fair comment?

Can anyone recommend a similarly comprehensive fundamental analysis book or is that too broad to be covered in one book? 

Secondly, having started to build up my theoretical knowledge I'd was wondering what the best way to gain exposure to a number of software platforms both for the brokerage, scanners/filters and charting tools?
I think that part of my problem when I try and do some technical analysis is that I'm not looking at the right stocks. If I could more effectively scan the markets Id be able to make some decent beginner (so probably wrong) predictions rather than staring at what seemingly looks like a stagnating random price chart.

Which is the best way to paper trade? Just by you're own notes or do software platforms exist to facilitate this?


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## pixel (8 May 2010)

*Re: Beginner questions.*



opulence said:


> Which is the best way to paper trade? Just by you're own notes or do software platforms exist to facilitate this?




There is certainly software that lets you backtest a trading system.
I know of one: Market Analyser from MDS Financial, which I've been using for more than ten years. Mind you, it's not a trivial exercise; nothing for the ten-thumbed "where's-the-off-switch" PC novice. But if you're at home in a program environment, it's definitely worth a try.

Find an example in this essay, describing the early stages of a system that I have been using (and expanding on) for the best part of 10 years. In particular, it includes a profit chart, which is just one element of the Backtesting facility of the MA.

I'm sure other members will know of similar packages.


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## ozzymk (13 May 2010)

*Beginner's question*

Hello!

I have never been trading on ASX but I am about to start. My plan is to start with big BlueChip companies. Could you please help with those 3 questions:

1) is it ok to buy some shares before the end of this financial year or it is better to wait until July 2010 ? (if I will buy some shares in June, do I need to pay CGT at the end of this 2009/2010 financial year?)

2) when I will be doing tax return should I expect that my tax accountant knows how to deal with taxes in terms of share trading ?

3)what is better: to save money for 2-3-4 months then to spent 3k-5k for shares or better to invest every month, even if I have just 2k to invest ? I know about brokerage fee but except of that ? anything else ?

Sorry I know that my questions are very basic... 

Thank you in advance for all your help!


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## diop (17 May 2010)

*Re: Beginner's question*



ozzymk said:


> Hello!
> 
> I have never been trading on ASX but I am about to start. My plan is to start with big BlueChip companies. Could you please help with those 3 questions:
> 
> ...




Hey man i think im in the same boat as you.. have about 3k to invest, but looking to invest as minimal as possible as I just want to get some experience atm and probably looking at jsut getting some half yearly dividends until i get some more cash.

My question was about the trading tools, im with commonwealth bank so is it best to use commsec or is there something else. IM also very noob lol looking to learn anything and everything


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## newbie trader (5 June 2010)

*Re: Beginner's question*



diop said:


> Hey man i think im in the same boat as you.. have about 3k to invest, but looking to invest as minimal as possible as I just want to get some experience atm and probably looking at jsut getting some half yearly dividends until i get some more cash.
> 
> My question was about the trading tools, im with commonwealth bank so is it best to use commsec or is there something else. IM also very noob lol looking to learn anything and everything




I use Commsec, 19.95 trades so it suits my current needs, but yours may be different. By the sounds of things you want experience but you also want to make some money? I can't help you with the 'making money' part but just make sure you take into account in and out brokerage fees so you know when you'll break even and when you'll pull a profit (i.e. an investment of $1000 with $40 in and out will require 4% profit to break even). Good luck.


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## sweetclassics (19 January 2011)

Hi guys, I'm new here too and got a few questions in mind. I sold my house a few months ago for half a mill, and currently I'm keen to invest back that amount into shares, preferably as short term investment for probably a year or two. 

I'm unemployed, so I enjoy lots of free time to browse the market sites, and I try to look at the prices chart atleast once everyday. So I consider myself as a careful investor, although I haven't actually made a portfolio yet.

My questions are, well when I was sieving through a few sites, I noticed that an investor cannot spend more than 25% of his cash on just one company, which I find to be rather a turn off for investing. Can anyone clarify more why is it such?

Secondly, for an investment of 500k, how long do you guys think the process of  acquiring and selling my shares would take? Esp when dealing with blue chip shares such as Rio and CBA? 

i'm assuming there's a large chance of me not being able to acquire the number of shares I want even though I can afford them, purely because the demand is so high for these type of shares and there's not enough sellers. Is that a reasonable assumption?

Cheers guys, I'm really glad I found this site as I've been struggling to find people I could talk to about shares. Hope you can help, thanks.


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## burglar (19 January 2011)

sweetclassics said:


> Hope you can help, thanks.




Sure we can help but, my typing is slow!


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## ginar (19 January 2011)

sweetclassics said:


> Hi guys, I'm new here too and got a few questions in mind. I sold my house a few months ago for half a mill, and currently I'm keen to invest back that amount into shares, preferably as short term investment for probably a year or two.
> 
> I'm unemployed, so I enjoy lots of free time to browse the market sites, and I try to look at the prices chart atleast once everyday. So I consider myself as a careful investor, although I haven't actually made a portfolio yet.
> 
> ...




500k order for CBA or RIO wouldnt even be blip in market depth as long as you buy/sell in open or close , lunch time they may be a little skinnier . 500k of CBA is just 10,000 shares  and  RIO 6,000 , considering they generally trade millions of shares a day your concerns are unfounded


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## burglar (19 January 2011)

sweetclassics said:


> ... I noticed that an investor cannot spend more than 25% of his cash on just one company ...



First time I heard this. Is that verifiable from a good source e.g. ASX or ATO ?

why is it such? So you don't join the queue of victims should you pick a "falling knife".


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## sweetclassics (19 January 2011)

ginar said:


> 500k order for CBA or RIO wouldnt even be blip in market depth as long as you buy/sell in open or close , lunch time they may be a little skinnier . 500k of CBA is just 10,000 shares  and  RIO 6,000 , considering they generally trade millions of shares a day your concerns are unfounded





Thanks for that info bud, but how bout the 25% thing? Is that a rule in the ASX trading protocol or does it depend on your broker?

Cause I remember reading somewhere, if you have a portfolio of 500k, you can only spend a quarter of it on one company at a time. So I'd have to settle with spending only 125k on shares I want instead of using the whole lot.


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## burglar (19 January 2011)

If you have not already done so, read lots from the beginners lounge :

Best thread there, by far, is by SIROSISOFLIVER (worth reading twice in my opinion) 

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14370


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## Tysonboss1 (19 January 2011)

sweetclassics said:


> Thanks for that info bud, but how bout the 25% thing? Is that a rule in the ASX trading protocol or does it depend on your broker?
> 
> Cause I remember reading somewhere, if you have a portfolio of 500k, you can only spend a quarter of it on one company at a time. So I'd have to settle with spending only 125k on shares I want instead of using the whole lot.




dollar cost average investing in parcels of about $25 K a week into an index fund is you best bet.

You may not have the know how to invest for self yet, if you want to try, put half in the index fund and try and invest the other half yourself


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## vincent191 (19 January 2011)

With margin lending, you can invest more than your $500k in the stock market and you can invest it all on the one company if you wish. there is nothing to stop you from investing your entire wealth on the stock market.

The 25% rule is most probably from some article you have read about diversification. i.e. don't put all your eggs in the one basket. ASX don't give a rat's %$#@ how you set up your portfolio.

You are getting mixed up with investing in the sharemarket, risk management and portfolio management.


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## joea (19 January 2011)

sweetclassics said:


> Hi guys, I'm new here too and got a few questions in mind. I sold my house a few months ago for half a mill, and currently I'm keen to invest back that amount into shares, preferably as short term investment for probably a year or two.
> 
> I'm unemployed, so I enjoy lots of free time to browse the market sites, and I try to look at the prices chart atleast once everyday. So I consider myself as a careful investor, although I haven't actually made a portfolio yet.
> 
> ...




Hi.
You had better develop a trading plan with a big emphasis on risk and money management, or you ain't going to have 500k fo long.
" the maket is made up of two type of people"
1 Those with money attempting to get experience.
2 Those with experience happy to take your money, to give you experience.

Your first "sin" was to skite about how much money you have.

Cheers


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## sweetclassics (19 January 2011)

joea said:


> Hi.
> You had better develop a trading plan with a big emphasis on risk and money management, or you ain't going to have 500k fo long.
> " the maket is made up of two type of people"
> 1 Those with money attempting to get experience.
> ...




lol first off i didnt mean to skite about my money, I just wanted to make everything clear esp about my investment budget. And yeah I think i have a rough plan about trading, mainly its just observing the fluctuations of the prices, and when I see the prices are low enough, I submit an order for that share. 

Then I wait, till it goes back up a bit, not much..in Rio's case maybe a few dollars and then I execute order to sell. 

Honestly does that sound like a lame plan? If it does, please tell me cuz I'm here to learn bros.

Peace


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## tech/a (19 January 2011)

> Then I wait, till it goes back up a bit, not much..in Rio's case maybe a few dollars and then I execute order to sell.
> 
> Honestly does that sound like a lame plan? If it does, please tell me cuz I'm here to learn bros.




Its lame.
How do you determine "low enough"
You need positive expectancy before you do anything.
You then need to understand risk and position sizing.
Start there.
There is much to this business and will take you years and quite possibly a chunk of your funds before you master it.


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## Garpal Gumnut (19 January 2011)

tech/a said:


> Its lame.
> How do you determine "low enough"
> You need positive expectancy before you do anything.
> You then need to understand risk and position sizing.
> ...




/a
mate, this is a tired old mantra of yours.

Its makes me think its not valid, a bit like Gann.

Do you have any novel ideas?

gg


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## Julia (20 January 2011)

sweetclassics said:


> lAnd yeah I think i have a rough plan about trading, mainly its just observing the fluctuations of the prices, and when I see the prices are low enough, I submit an order for that share.
> 
> Then I wait, till it goes back up a bit, not much..in Rio's case maybe a few dollars and then I execute order to sell.






tech/a said:


> Its lame.
> How do you determine "low enough"
> You need positive expectancy before you do anything.
> You then need to understand risk and position sizing.
> ...



 Is it really all that lame if Sweet Classics doesn't want to educate himself about the wider market but just wants to put a chunk of money on one blue chip company?

The $500K would buy about 5900 RIO shares.  Not too hard to buy in a dip then sell when it has gone up two or three dollars.  That would be a quick profit of around $12,000.


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## Tysonboss1 (20 January 2011)

Or it could end in tears with poor old sweet cakes suffering huge speculative losses by trying to jump in and out of the market without knowing what she was doing.

It might be just me, But if I had just sold my house I would want to take a conservative approach as to where I was putting the funds. With some here suggesting she even use margin, it's just crazy, she doesn't know what shes doing. Lucky sweet cakes didn't sell her house a few years, Or the sharp salesman from storm financial would have eaten here for breakfast.

"those who fail to remember the past are doomed to repeat it"


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## sweetclassics (20 January 2011)

Tysonboss1 said:


> Or it could end in tears with poor old sweet cakes suffering huge speculative losses by trying to jump in and out of the market without knowing what she was doing.
> 
> It might be just me, But if I had just sold my house I would want to take a conservative approach as to where I was putting the funds. With some here suggesting she even use margin, it's just crazy, she doesn't know what shes doing. Lucky sweet cakes didn't sell her house a few years, Or the sharp salesman from storm financial would have eaten here for breakfast.
> 
> "those who fail to remember the past are doomed to repeat it"




Hi, thanks for your input. First of all I'd like to make it clear than I'm not a girl..I'm a dude bro.

 Secondly, I agree about speculative losses does pose a genuine risk but I also believe by carefully dwelling on local market and global news, price fluctuations as well as all relevant news material concerning the company the risk can be minimized to a certain extent. I recall the GFC was widely and thoroughly covered from start to finish by the media, leaving the shareholders ample time to make decisions on their share holdings. 

Even if I do make a lost in share value, I always have the choice of withholding the sale of shares till the situation improves. I'm just a bit clueless on your suggestions of a conservative approach, as I think keeping my margins at the minimum is a conservative approach to make a profit, ain't it?


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## Tysonboss1 (20 January 2011)

sweetclassics said:


> Hi, thanks for your input. First of all I'd like to make it clear than I'm not a girl..I'm a dude bro.
> ?




Sorry ,... for some reason i thought your name was sweet cakes, which is a girly name.


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## tech/a (20 January 2011)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> /a
> mate, this is a tired old mantra of yours.
> 
> Its makes me think its not valid, a bit like Gann.
> ...





Well if you trade consistently you'd know whether its valid or not.
You'd know your expectancy off pat.

To those who have never seen it let alone know what it means its shiny and new.
To you its old and tired as you've been around the block.




> Even if I do make a lost in share value, I always have the choice of withholding the sale of shares till the situation improves.?




This is always a classic.
You haven't made a loss until you sell it!!

The situation may not improve and the stock could be de listed.

Go to a bank and ask them what your asset is when you hold a stock which was $500K now worth $100K.

It will be $100k---bet ya!


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## Tysonboss1 (20 January 2011)

sweetclassics said:


> Secondly, I agree about speculative losses does pose a genuine risk but I also believe by carefully dwelling on local market and global news, price fluctuations as well as all relevant news material concerning the company the risk can be minimized to a certain extent. I recall the GFC was widely and thoroughly covered from start to finish by the media, leaving the shareholders ample time to make decisions on their share holdings.
> 
> Even if I do make a lost in share value, I always have the choice of withholding the sale of shares till the situation improves. I'm just a bit clueless on your suggestions of a conservative approach, as I think keeping my margins at the minimum is a conservative approach to make a profit, ain't it?




Sorry I can't aggree with anything you are saying about monitering the news of companies lowers your risk, it takes seconds for bad news to wipe value from your holding, and if you are limited to one company you can suffer a huge loss,

In regards to a conservative approach.

In my view a conservative approach would involve keeping some of the cash in cash investments, while dollar cost averaging a large portion of the rest into an index fund. If you wish to try your hand at investing some yourself then I would limit this to 25% of the total, and spread it accross a minimum of 5 companies that you know well and can be assured you are not over paying for. 

May I also such before you invest you $500K, that you invest some time and money into education, not expensive seminars just some good books, the Intelligent investor is good start,

Please watch the below two videos of warren buffetts view about index funds and novice investors, they only go for 2mins

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_WF1NhSGIc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEX81lGhMwM


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## burglar (21 January 2011)

sweetclassics said:


> Hi, thanks for your input. First of all I'd like to make it clear than I'm not a girl..I'm a dude bro.




 FWIW If you were a girl, chances are you would be listening!


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## sweetclassics (21 January 2011)

Tysonboss1 said:


> Sorry I can't aggree with anything you are saying about monitering the news of companies lowers your risk, it takes seconds for bad news to wipe value from your holding, and if you are limited to one company you can suffer a huge loss,
> 
> In regards to a conservative approach.
> 
> ...




I agree with spreading out the funds but I think that might be worthwhile once you got a few million in your portfolio, but for an investment of half a mill bucks it won't give any more annual returns than my bank does in interest payments lol.


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## Tysonboss1 (21 January 2011)

sweetclassics said:


> I agree with spreading out the funds but I think that might be worthwhile once you got a few million in your portfolio, but for an investment of half a mill bucks it won't give any more annual returns than my bank does in interest payments lol.




over time cash at bank will get eaten by inflation, buy owning real assets you wealth is protected from the inflation of the money supply.

By investing in shares you will be earning dividends + growth + inflation hedging. 

I recommended an index fund for you because it is easy and safe, and still generates a credible inflation hedged return.

Plenty of people with more experiance and education than you in relation to investing in the share market have entered the market and dedicated hours of study and work with the hope of beating the market ( index funds ) only to lose money or under perform the index.

That is the one virtue of the market, It is very easy to invest and earn a credible return by simply taking a passive/defensive approach, It takes much work and dedicaton and training to be able to safly beat the market using a focused approach, ( any idiot can fluke a year or two of spectacular growth, but eventually it catches up to them)


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## luke256 (21 January 2011)

Julia said:


> Is it really all that lame if Sweet Classics doesn't want to educate himself about the wider market but just wants to put a chunk of money on one blue chip company?
> 
> The $500K would buy about 5900 RIO shares.  Not too hard to buy in a dip then sell when it has gone up two or three dollars.  That would be a quick profit of around $12,000.




Yes its a lame and immature plan. I wouldn't even call it a plan.
1. Entry Signal: buy when i *think *its low
2. Profit target: mmmhh just wait til it goes up a few bucks


Rio dropped about $3.5 in the last three days or a quick loss of 19K on a 500k purchase. IMO thats a decent amount of money to throw at a trade with no proper plan.

Sweetclassics your considering being a short term trader (80 - 90% lose). Why bother investing in something you dont know about when the odds are so heavily against you? 500K will buy you a ferrrari with some change left over.


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## Julia (21 January 2011)

sweetclassics said:


> I agree with spreading out the funds but I think that might be worthwhile once you got a few million in your portfolio, but for an investment of half a mill bucks it won't give any more annual returns than my bank does in interest payments lol.






luke256 said:


> Yes its a lame and immature plan. I wouldn't even call it a plan.



The above statement by sweetclassics does show his inexperience and lack of education.  And correct, too, that he doesn't have what most of us would call a plan.

However, a glance at RIO's chart shows plenty of opportunities where one could have bought in a dip such as you've mentioned, then sold when the SP rebounded.

Agree that sweetclassics' inexperience could well land him in trouble, but the principle of what he's suggesting is feasible.

Isn't this what most traders do all the time with much smaller amounts,  i.e. in at $2.20 then sell at $2.70 etc?

What's the difference other than the bigger dollars?


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## WaveSurfer (21 January 2011)

sweetclassics said:


> Hi guys, I'm new here too and got a few questions in mind. I sold my house a few months ago for half a mill, and currently I'm keen to invest back that amount into shares, preferably as short term investment for probably a year or two....




Sweet classics, like sweet classic cars? I have a couple of sweet classics 

Keep your money, put it in a high interest savings account and study the markets before you play it with that sort of cash dude. Unless you're a punter and don't mind donating your hard earned to the market.

If you're going to play it, play it small to start with. Odds are that you'll turn 500k into 20k in a year or two if you don't. Study for a year and throw 10k in for a punt if you're game. Chances are you'll lose that too, but you'll have some fun and learn a lot on the way. Come back here and thank the ones who told you not to give your 500k away :

Or go with an index fund, but don't expect it to out perform in just a year or two. It's a long term strategy and trying to pick it for a year or two with your limited experience is going to be very, very hard.


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## nomore4s (21 January 2011)

Julia said:


> Isn't this what most traders do all the time with much smaller amounts,  i.e. in at $2.20 then sell at $2.70 etc?
> 
> What's the difference other than the bigger dollars?




Julia, the issue isn't so much the fact he/she wants to do it with RIO or the bigger $ amounts, it is more the lack of position sizing or risk control that is the issue.

I tend to trade RIO, BHP & the banks a fair bit as they do provide good swings that I can trade with tight stops giving me large position sizes. But I don't trade them with all my capital and I have stops in place but even then these stocks can have large gap down days which can really burn the account.


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## sweetclassics (21 January 2011)

Julia said:


> The above statement by sweetclassics does show his inexperience and lack of education.  And correct, too, that he doesn't have what most of us would call a plan.
> 
> However, a glance at RIO's chart shows plenty of opportunities where one could have bought in a dip such as you've mentioned, then sold when the SP rebounded.
> 
> ...




hmmm excuse me but i actually go to uni, so you guys could lay off calling me dumb a lil you know. 

And for those saying I'm going to lose everything by putting my money in Rio, well why are so many people buying its shares in the first place if the company's destined for ruins? The mines certainly aren't drying up, and with high rates of industrialization happening all over Asia, I don't see the demand for materials going down either. 

One more thing, I'm not against diversification at all, I'm just suggesting I trade one company at a time. Maybe if Rio's experiencing a slump, I'll look into other companies whose prices are actively fluctuating. 

Anyways just my two cents, tho I'm still keen to hear any constructive arguments and advices. Thanks


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## Tysonboss1 (21 January 2011)

sweetclassics said:


> hmmm excuse me but i actually go to uni, so you guys could lay off calling me dumb a lil you know.




Firstly, nobody called you dumb I think the quote was "uneducated" in the area of investing or Trading.

Secondly, just attending uni (even if you have a super IQ) does not mean you have an edge over people across fields you have no experiance in or are un educated in.

For example, People in the medical profession have prooven to be terrible investors over time. Even though they are very intelligent and have strong abilities in the area of research and fact finding. Generally they are let down on the emotional side of trading and investing.


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## burglar (21 January 2011)

sweetclassics said:


> hmmm excuse me but i actually go to uni, so you guys could lay off calling me dumb a lil you know.
> 
> Anyways just my two cents, tho I'm still keen to hear any constructive arguments and advices. Thanks




I didn't actually hear anyone calling you dumb, ...
I think some said inexperienced. (ouch that's still got to hurt!)
You are surrounded here at ASF by millionaires and retailers, traders and investors.

Just work out who is who, filter their advice, then go buy RIO


----------



## Tysonboss1 (21 January 2011)

sweetclassics said:


> And for those saying I'm going to lose everything by putting my money in Rio, well why are so many people buying its shares in the first place if the company's destined for ruins? The mines certainly aren't drying up, and with high rates of industrialization happening all over Asia, I don't see the demand for materials going down either.
> 
> One more thing, I'm not against diversification at all, I'm just suggesting I trade one company at a time. Maybe if Rio's experiencing a slump, I'll look into other companies whose prices are actively fluctuating.
> 
> Anyways just my two cents, tho I'm still keen to hear any constructive arguments and advices. Thanks




Rio may very well be a great business (I don't follow it, so I don't know). But this doesn't mean you can't lose money by over paying.

Diversfication protects you from suffering big losses when you get one idea wrong, putting all your money in one company offers no protection through diversification.

But look, I have no vested interest in the safty of your priciple. I just offered my ideas about how you could have a decent return while also having safty of priciple. It's your money do what you like.

In grahams words,

"Out right speculation (gambling) is neither Illeagal or Immoral, Nor in most cases fattening to the pocket Book".

As I said earlier, It is possible for you to have healthy returns doing what you intend to do. But it is at the expense of taking larger risks, which sooner or later will catch up with you. only then will you realised what you don't know.

Untill then feel free to spin the roulette wheel and scoff at me when you win, just don't blame the market when you loose. Because it won't be the market that cause's you to lose, But you lack of understanding and proper analysis, along with the lack of wise risk management.


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## burglar (21 January 2011)

sweetclassics said:


> ...I'm unemployed, ...




Hard to keep your creds if you contradict yourself.


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## Market Depth (21 January 2011)

Of course you can throw 500k at a large Cap stock, it'll just swallow it up no problems at all. The Large Cap stocks are the 'BIG' sharks of the stockmarket, they need constant regular feedings to keep moving, I'm sure a 500k lunch for RIO would be just what it wants.

So lets just say that you ignore all advice and RIO is indeed the 'One you Want'. What have you noticed about how RIO trades? Have you taken any Notes? Why is it a 'Good Buy' when the price moves down a bit? What postion sizes have you noticed being traded with RIO? Do you plan on buying in one lot? or many smaller lots? How are you to manage your trade? Many other questions I could ask. Learning Observation along with notation well before taking any action is a good starting point. You'll either make allot of money, or your 500k will become expensive fish food I won't speculate on which one you'll be, I'll let you decide.


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## ParleVouFrancois (21 January 2011)

Basically sweetclassics, almost everyone here thinks that you should learn a bit more about the sharemarket before you go "all in" and lose a bunch of cash you perhaps might have avoided had you had more knowledge about the sharemarket. I'd have to say I agree with them, with 500k at stake, this isn't some kid investing 5k all in on RIO, this is a life changing amount of money, invest a bit of time learning how the sharemarket works is the advice given, and it's obviously up to you how you want to take it. If you keep contradicting the well meaning advice given here on ASF for you to take your time and learn a bit more, then go right ahead and chuck it all on one stock, noone else here's money is at risk, and to be brutally honest, noone will care if you lose the entire 500k (or a large part of it), infact a few people might feel justified for telling you to learn more, in the end it's up to you man, but just think how many hours you'd have to work for that 500k, and how many years earlier you could retire from being a 9 to 5 slave to the wage.

PVF.


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## Julia (21 January 2011)

nomore4s said:


> Julia, the issue isn't so much the fact he/she wants to do it with RIO or the bigger $ amounts, it is more the lack of position sizing or risk control that is the issue.
> 
> I tend to trade RIO, BHP & the banks a fair bit as they do provide good swings that I can trade with tight stops giving me large position sizes. But I don't trade them with all my capital and I have stops in place but even then these stocks can have large gap down days which can really burn the account.



Yes, I understand exactly what you and others are saying, but given the swings that typify RIO, it's just not that hard to buy in a dip and sell when it bounces back up around $2 or $3.  I've done it multiple times with about half the amount Sweetcakes is suggesting using.  Sometimes it's quick, other times I'll hang in there for a while.




sweetclassics said:


> hmmm excuse me but i actually go to uni, so you guys could lay off calling me dumb a lil you know.



I suggested you were inexperienced and lacked financial education which is obviously correct and you have confirmed this.  So please don't start with the hissy fit about being called dumb.  If you actually read all I wrote, I've gone against the general tenor of this thread and suggested what you want to do is not impossible.

It does, however, as others have pointed out, go against all principles of risk management and position sizing, especially given your total lack of experience.

But hey, if you reckon you know what you're doing, go for it.  Might be good in future to just do it and not seek input to which you are not prepared to listen.


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## tech/a (22 January 2011)

> Secondly, for an investment of 500k, how long do you guys think the process of acquiring and selling my shares would take?




Then



> hmmm excuse me but i actually go to uni, so you guys could lay off calling me dumb a lil you know.





Time waster--wanna be.


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## 863 (22 January 2011)

It seems there are a lot of books people recommend, i think guppy and pitbull are some of the ones I was going to look into, are there any newer ones or other good recommendations for a newer trader interested more in day trading and learning the ropes I should look into- also are these books very specific on short or long term trading styles or can most of these ideas and strategies be applied anywhere?

Thanks,
863


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## Tysonboss1 (22 January 2011)

863 said:


> It seems there are a lot of books people recommend, i think guppy and pitbull are some of the ones I was going to look into, are there any newer ones or other good recommendations for a newer trader interested more in day trading and learning the ropes I should look into- also are these books very specific on short or long term trading styles or can most of these ideas and strategies be applied anywhere?
> 
> Thanks,
> 863




Not really for traders, But here is a book that changed my life. this is part one in a 24 video series, you will have to go to you tube for the rest.

But I recommend buying the book


----------



## Greedy_Kev (22 January 2011)

863 said:


> It seems there are a lot of books people recommend, i think guppy and pitbull are some of the ones I was going to look into, are there any newer ones or other good recommendations for a newer trader interested more in day trading and learning the ropes I should look into- also are these books very specific on short or long term trading styles or can most of these ideas and strategies be applied anywhere?
> 
> Thanks,
> 863




Everyone has their own trading strategy some works and some don't u just have to go by experience, the market wouldn't function properly if everyone did the same thing.

if u want an idea that can be applied anywhere, it would be to buy low and sell high, "a good share is only good if bought at the right price"


----------



## Wysiwyg (22 January 2011)

Tysonboss1 said:


> Not really for traders, But here is a book that changed my life. this is part one in a 24 video series, you will have to go to you tube for the rest.
> 
> But I recommend buying the book




Timely reminder about the pitfalls of speculating.  No wonder I have never met anyone in person that trades the markets.


----------



## skyQuake (22 January 2011)

Wysiwyg said:


> Timely reminder about the pitfalls of speculating.  No wonder I have never met anyone in person that trades the markets.




Need to go out and meet more people


----------



## 863 (22 January 2011)

Greedy_Kev said:


> Everyone has their own trading strategy some works and some don't u just have to go by experience, the market wouldn't function properly if everyone did the same thing.
> 
> if u want an idea that can be applied anywhere, it would be to buy low and sell high, "a good share is only good if bought at the right price"



 I agree but my knowledge of the market is nothing compared to most here I believe, I'm just after good books to read to learn anything I can about trading and the market


----------



## Market Depth (22 January 2011)

863 said:


> I agree but my knowledge of the market is nothing compared to most here I believe, I'm just after good books to read to learn anything I can about trading and the market




Books are  great start 863. But I can tell you one thing and that's Day Trading is not for the novice. First you have to learn how to survive in the market. Keep the Day Trading side of things in the back of your mind for when you have survived long enough to reach prosperity in your trading journey. As a suggestion Daryl Guppy Trend Trading is well worth a read.


----------



## 863 (22 January 2011)

Market Depth said:


> Books are  great start 863. But I can tell you one thing and that's Day Trading is not for the novice. First you have to learn how to survive in the market. Keep the Day Trading side of things in the back of your mind for when you have survived long enough to reach prosperity in your trading journey. As a suggestion Daryl Guppy Trend Trading is well worth a read.




Another good one to read, I have heard Guppy a lot so I will look on Amazon for it. I do appreciate the feedback so much, any others that would help along the way?
I have a bit of time coming up to read as many books possible and as such I am very keen to immerse myself in all the knowledge I can regarding how to understand the markets and buying behaviour, strategies, and great traders etc
again, thanks all
863


----------



## Market Depth (22 January 2011)

A couple of 'Oldies' But 'Goodies'

The Battle for Investment Survival, by Gerald M. Loeb. Published in 1935.
Tape Reading and Market Tactics, by Humphrey Bancroft Neill. Published in 1931.


----------



## Wysiwyg (23 January 2011)

skyQuake said:


> Need to go out and meet more people



Oh I know why. It is too high risk for the majority. That is they are pretty confident of losing their capital. The cost of experience just isn't worth it.


----------



## tech/a (23 January 2011)

Wysiwyg said:


> Timely reminder about the pitfalls of speculating.  No wonder I have never met anyone in person that trades the markets.



  Look me up when in town.


----------



## WaveSurfer (27 January 2011)

Market Depth said:


> A couple of 'Oldies' But 'Goodies'
> 
> The Battle for Investment Survival, by Gerald M. Loeb. Published in 1935.
> Tape Reading and Market Tactics, by Humphrey Bancroft Neill. Published in 1931.




Haven't read the first one (yet), but the second is an absolute pearler.


----------



## 863 (7 February 2011)

Hey guys thanks for those recommendations on books, I have ordered them and should be going through them soon, any other good ones, maybe some more for day trading- although I know experience is needed to succeed with day trading I would like to read into it more-just to many books out there to choose from so it's not easy to know which are the useful ones and which are not.
Cheers for any further help


----------



## Market Depth (7 February 2011)

G'Day 863,

 Books on 'Day Trading' can be taken with a grain of salt. It's very hard to actually teach someone how to 'Daytrade' well. A little book I find useful from time to time is 
"The Long Term Day Trader" by Michael Sincere and Deron Wagner, printed in about 2000 I think


----------



## ChaoSI (14 February 2011)

Hi guys,
I've been working my way through the trading for beginners  thread which has been incredibly helpful but i have a burning question to have.

what is a 'core position" ?

the reason why i'm asking is cos it always get bandying about.. and i have some shares that .. sold now would make a nice 25% even if i only sold a part of it... but this whole core position thing makes me think that i shouldn't and just take dividends 
i know noone's to offer specific advice but the main question is as above.. i was just explaining the context of why i'm asking..

thanks =)


----------



## Market Depth (14 February 2011)

ChaoSI said:


> Hi guys,
> I've been working my way through the trading for beginners  thread which has been incredibly helpful but i have a burning question to have.
> 
> what is a 'core position" ?
> ...




Basically a 'Core Postion' is stock that you own in a company, that you are holding for a long period of time. I have 'Core Postions' in BHP and CBA for instance, as I bought these shares a long time ago. I sell some shares when prices spike and I buy more back when prices ease off, but I retain a certain level of stock in these companies.

Hope that helps


----------



## ChaoSI (14 February 2011)

ahhh i think i do.
i have CBA too.. from not as long ago..
but for me atm it's ANZ
so basically the idea is that you never sell all of the shares.. but you 'earn' by selling portions of it off at highs to gain cash. THis is repeated a number of times with the long term aim of basically increasing the number of shares owned in the company?

so if you don't mind me asking what % of the total do you sell?

thanks for the ridiculously quick reply btw !


----------



## Market Depth (14 February 2011)

ChaoSI said:


> ahhh i think i do.
> i have CBA too.. from not as long ago..
> but for me atm it's ANZ
> so basically the idea is that you never sell all of the shares.. but you 'earn' by selling portions of it off at highs to gain cash. THis is repeated a number of times with the long term aim of basically increasing the number of shares owned in the company?
> ...




It will differ from person to person. I generally don't sell a percentage, it's more a number of shares. CBA as an example I bought after the GFC at 1000 shares@ $26 and sold 500 when they reached $55. So the remaining 500 is still worth the same as when I bought the original 1000, but they are 'Free shares'. I just pocket the $27000. Recently I bought 500 cba again for $49 and I'll sell 445 at around the $55 mark  and pick up another 50 shares for free, this is on top of my 'Original Holding' in CBA.


----------



## ChaoSI (14 February 2011)

hmm i think i understand. but this particular method is just one of your own devising?

that is a pretty interesting way of doing things in the CBA instance (which i also bought in at that price  but i'm just a small time fella hahaha) your "money invested" as such has remaind the same but you now have 27k extra in pocket hence the 'free shares"
(sorry if i'm belaboring the point.. just clarifying..)

so do you always do this method with your 'core positions' ?


----------



## Market Depth (14 February 2011)

I'm sure others would do what I do. It works well when you buy into the right stockmarket correction, ie. 1987 and 2008-2009 when fundamentally good companies can be bought for good prices. It also helps with my dividend reinvestment over the longer term. So instead of taking my dividend as a cheque I reinvest for more shares of the value of my dividend.

I've spent many years following certain companies, I've followed some for 25 years, and I know them well, and how they trade, so 'Core' postions I buy are usually built up over time, and at the right time. You need to watch certain companies very closely, to gain a better understanding of what the prices are doing, so you know when to buy in and when to sell some.


----------



## ChaoSI (14 February 2011)

thanks for that M D.
think i learned something really valuable today and that's cos of you.

i've had CBA and ANZ for some time now so i *kinda* know how they move (as much as you can know by looking at a chart with an empty head ) but i think i understand what you mean.
I also do the DRP too which has helped of course.

haha being such a small time investor i don't have quite the money to move about as you and tend towards the more cautious. So that method you talked about gave me something to think about that appeals to my 'i don't know anything so better safe than sorry' approach to shares (being psych trained i'm better suited to understanding people rather than the roiling maelstrom which is the financial markets)


just wanted to say a HUGE thank you again for answering my questions so promptly!


----------



## Market Depth (14 February 2011)

ChaoSI said:


> (being psych trained i'm better suited to understanding people rather than the roiling maelstrom which is the financial markets)




This quote here is what trading the market is all about. You actually know more than you think.  You just need learn how to harness what you know about people, and you can profit from that in the market.


----------



## Market Depth (14 February 2011)

ChaoSI said:


> haha being such a small time investor i don't have quite the money to move about as you and tend towards the more cautious. So that method you talked about gave me something to think about that appeals to my 'i don't know anything so better safe than sorry' approach to shares (being psych trained i'm better suited to understanding people rather than the roiling maelstrom which is the financial markets)
> 
> 
> just wanted to say a HUGE thank you again for answering my questions so promptly!




We all started somewhere. I honestly believe if you continue trading for your entire life journey, YOU WILL WIN! No question about it. It's a numbers game. The reason people don't win in the market, is because they quit. There will be times when you wished you'd never made a trade in the first place. 'Ignorance is Bliss' as they say. You just have to get back in there and finish what you started. Till you end up in a box


----------



## ChaoSI (14 February 2011)

Market Depth said:


> This quote here is what trading the market is all about. You actually know more than you think.  You just need learn how to harness what you know about people, and you can profit from that in the market.




hahah yeah after i rwote that it did seem that was the case.. i'll qualify that with how a single person acts and thinks  rather than the tug of war of millions  haha

but that's for the confidence boost. i'm pretty terrible with the technical stuff so i guess playing to my strengths would be to keep an ear out on what people are saying because if they're saying it.. they're thinking it and (for the less disciplined) they'll act on it. that's a bit cryptic haha

but yeah you're right.. constantly going at it you'll win out even if you play it safe.
i have AWC and CSR atm and they push my whole portfolio into the red (i'll blame mum for buying these shares  but i'm in no hurry for the money so i have the luxury of leaving them there to rot (or regrow) as it were)

til i end up in a box.. how delightful 


i'm still working through the other sticky "all your questions answered" atm. but i thought i'd ask another question that's..... a bit silly really.

IF you know when the dividend payouts are going to happen couldn't you *technically* buy X amout of the stock at a price you know will be accepted wait for the dividend to be paid and then sell? and assuming minimal fluctuation at the time nothing worth mentioning... couldn't you gain a minimal amount of money that way?


----------



## burglar (27 February 2011)

ChaoSI said:


> ... IF you know when the dividend payouts are going to happen  ...



I have heard it said that there is some beer money in this strategy. 
From personal observation, SP drops by amount of dividend on ex-dividend day.


----------



## addison (27 May 2011)

burglar said:


> I have heard it said that there is some beer money in this strategy.
> From personal observation, SP drops by amount of dividend on ex-dividend day.




i did one of these recently, just for the experience of it, was nice to get a dividend but got caned on the sp drop so wouldnt bother with this strategy again, too costly


----------



## Starcraftmazter (2 June 2011)

Hey

I've been thinking about the prospect of creating some software which looks over various worldwide news sources (on the web) and finds anything relating to a given list of companies (let's say ones I have money in, or am watching).

Obviously I would presume major finance companies would have this sort of thing, but I'm wondering whether there's any public/free software that does this (ie. I don't want to waste time replicating something which already exists and is readily available).

Perhaps there are some online services that do precisely this as well. Are there any, and if so, how good are they in terms of breadth (covering a large amount of worldwide news sources) and speed (getting the information to you as soon as it appears)? Are they worth the money?


Would anyone recommend a list (the bigger the better) of some noteworthy news websites which would be useful for this sort of endeavor? (free or paid if they are worth it).

If there's any other comments (I'm pretty new to this) about my plan, then those would be welcome 

Thanks


----------



## Starcraftmazter (2 June 2011)

Few other things I forgot to ask (sorry for double post);

1. On Bell Direct (where I've recently made an account), I have read the following:



> Am I required to inform the share registry my Tax File Number (TFN)?
> It is not required, although recommended, for you to inform the share registry of your TFN. If you do not inform the registry, you will be taxed to the highest marginal tax rate for any dividends you receive. Please note that we do not automatically notify any share registry of your TFN.




I am wondering how/where I can do this?

2. Is the 4 digit PIN BD sent me to use on trades on their website have anything to do with CHESS?

3. Maybe related to 2; What is a CHESS PID, and how do I find out if I have one / how do I get it?


Thanks


----------



## davede (11 June 2011)

Starcraftmazter said:


> Hey
> 
> I've been thinking about the prospect of creating some software which looks over various worldwide news sources (on the web) and finds anything relating to a given list of companies (let's say ones I have money in, or am watching).




Like your entrepreneurial attitude. However Google Finance does this and it is for free. enter a stock code in Google Finance and it will pull a chart and related info from news sources (basically doing a google search and pulling in the results). It is handy but some of the info is not as related as you might hope.

As for your other questions:

1. & 2. contact bell direct and ask them.

3. PID aka Chess Sponsor's ID is your broker ID that they use for purchasing shares on your behalf. You don't get one or need one.

Regards,

Dave


----------



## Starcraftmazter (12 June 2011)

davede said:


> Like your entrepreneurial attitude. However Google Finance does this and it is for free. enter a stock code in Google Finance and it will pull a chart and related info from news sources (basically doing a google search and pulling in the results). It is handy but some of the info is not as related as you might hope.




Ah, thanks mate. Is it usually pretty fast? Also, is there a way to get those notifications by SMS? (Or merely the fact that there is some sort of "news")?


----------



## Frankie (21 June 2011)

I am a big user of Google News.

On the top left tool bar of the Google home page I click on the heading “News.” I then type my selected company in the search box, then hit enter.

On the left hand side I can choose news for my company that has occurred in the past hour, day, week etc

I find this a great way of keeping up to date with news for my selected companies. It  gives me much more insight than just reading the company announcements for my selected stock.


----------



## Tanaka (22 June 2011)

Frankie said:


> I am a big user of Google News.
> 
> On the top left tool bar of the Google home page I click on the heading “News.” I then type my selected company in the search box, then hit enter.
> 
> ...




You can also simply type in 'ASX:BHP' and it will take you straight to the google finance section for news and charts about BHP for example


----------



## Frankie (22 June 2011)

Another thing worth mentioning is Google Alerts.

This allows me to type in my stock and receive an email when new news comes out about my company.


----------



## AnthonyJ (23 June 2011)

Howdy all,

I have recently started a SMSF and as I am a beginner, I am planning to put the cash into a few managed funds for a 3-5 year period. This will (I hope) give me an easy first step while I continue to grow in knowledge of the share market.

Just putting it out there to hopefully get some feedback (not financial advice), although I know everyone has their own opinion. 

These are the short list of the funds I am looking at;

Wilson HTM priority growth
Lime street capital Hi-alpha fund
Strategic Elements (pooled development fund)

Any thoughts will be appreciated.


----------



## Starcraftmazter (23 June 2011)

AnthonyJ said:


> Howdy all,
> 
> I have recently started a SMSF and as I am a beginner, I am planning to put the cash into a few managed funds for a 3-5 year period. This will (I hope) give me an easy first step while I continue to grow in knowledge of the share market.
> 
> ...




SOR is excellent long term investment IMO. On the other hand, I would not root for managed funds investing in shares at the moment. I'm new myself though, so don't take my advice as gold.

I would however highly recommend you read these very recent articles (best read from oldest to newest as they are in a series)
http://macrobusiness.com.au/category/superannuation/


----------



## Julia (23 June 2011)

AnthonyJ said:


> Howdy all,
> 
> I have recently started a SMSF and as I am a beginner,



You are a beginner and you've started a SMSF???
I don't wish to be intrusive but if you've set up a SMSF you will have had to have enacted an Investment Strategy.
What does this describe?

Could you perhaps say what your reason is for setting up a SMSF?
Most people do it because they believe they are capable of achieving a better return than most fund managers.  That doesn't seem to be the case in this instance.


----------



## AnthonyJ (23 June 2011)

Julia said:


> You are a beginner and you've started a SMSF???
> I don't wish to be intrusive but if you've set up a SMSF you will have had to have enacted an Investment Strategy.
> What does this describe?
> 
> ...





Thanks for your concerns.
With a 4.05% 5 year average return on my previous super fund, I thought that I could do better. The funds I have been researching have well over 4 times this return over the previous 5 years. I do not intend to be an over night trader extraordinaire, but following my investment strategy of investing in managed funds for a 5 year period and looking at putting the earnings then into property I hope will do better than the 4.05%. 
I am on a steep learning curve and appreciate any help I hope to find hear in the beginners lounge.


----------



## AnthonyJ (23 June 2011)

Starcraftmazter said:


> SOR is excellent long term investment IMO. On the other hand, I would not root for managed funds investing in shares at the moment. I'm new myself though, so don't take my advice as gold.
> 
> I would however highly recommend you read these very recent articles (best read from oldest to newest as they are in a series)
> http://macrobusiness.com.au/category/superannuation/




Cheers,
I will check it out. 
Appreciated.


----------



## Julia (24 June 2011)

Good to know you have a researched plan.
Best wishes.  Hope it works well for you.


----------



## skip9 (29 June 2011)

Hey guys, simple question here

what does "net" in financial statement mean? why "net" profit rather than just profit, also the same question in regards to "normalised"

thanks.


----------



## mazzatelli (29 June 2011)

skip9 said:


> Hey guys, simple question here
> 
> what does "net" in financial statement mean? why "net" profit rather than just profit, also the same question in regards to "normalised"
> 
> thanks.




Net usually refers to a final figure net of all deductions required. Net profit is to distinguish from Gross profit - which is usually just Revenue - less related expenses to generate that revenue rather than overhead. In the end it is a classification.

Normalised - the variable in question is calculated as a multiple of some chosen base for ease of comparison e.g. expressing salaries as $x/$1 revenue


----------



## skc (29 June 2011)

mazzatelli said:


> Normalised - the variable in question is calculated as a multiple of some chosen base for ease of comparison e.g. expressing salaries as $x/$1 revenue




I think normalised in this instance is where people take out abnormal items. The definition of what is abnormal is subjective (I think), but the QLD flood damage may be an one-off abnormal for many businesses, for example.

Let's say this year my net profit is $5m but it includes a $3m loss due to the floods. So I might say that my normalised net profit is $8m. 

This is useful because next year when I make $7m profit, you can see that I've actually went backwards compared to the normalised profit of $8m.


----------



## mazzatelli (29 June 2011)

Ah okay - its been a while, but I thought items are now only disclosed as extraordinary or not (no more abnormal classification). 

I've never heard of P/L from ordinary activities referred to as normalised - times they are a changin'


----------



## skc (29 June 2011)

mazzatelli said:


> Ah okay - its been a while, but I thought items are now only disclosed as extraordinary or not (no more abnormal classification).
> 
> I've never heard of P/L from ordinary activities referred to as normalised - times they are a changin'




Actually I am a bit unsure as to what the "statutorily correct" terminology should be. But terms like "underlying", "pre-abnormal", "non-odinary", "excluding one-off", "normalised" all mean pretty much the same thing. And it might be used by market commentators or in descriptive texts in annual report etc so they are not subjected to the same reporting standards.


----------



## MichaelThomas (4 August 2011)

I have just started trading and began an online trading account with Westpac since i already bank with them. It looks like i will be doing about five to ten trades every month so i was wondering who is the best online broker to go with in terms of cheap, reliable trading. Westpac have been good, but i think i can do better, they seem a bit expensive.

I only need a trade-only broker since i know what shares i'm buying but is there any specials or deals that people are aware of?

This is probably a common question, i apologise if it's in the wrong place. I will have a look around the site to see if there is information on here already, but i just thought i'd ask in case someone had some info at hand.

Thank you.


----------



## Starcraftmazter (7 August 2011)

MichaelThomas said:


> I have just started trading and began an online trading account with Westpac since i already bank with them. It looks like i will be doing about five to ten trades every month so i was wondering who is the best online broker to go with in terms of cheap, reliable trading. Westpac have been good, but i think i can do better, they seem a bit expensive.
> 
> I only need a trade-only broker since i know what shares i'm buying but is there any specials or deals that people are aware of?
> 
> ...




Seems like a lot of banks (including yours) are giving $600 free brockerage. If you are looking more into long-term cheapest pricing, then perhaps Bell Direct (www.belldirect.com.au) or Interactive Brokers (www.interactivebrokers.com) might be good.

There's some $10 per trade one as well, but everyone seems to say bad things about them, so...


----------



## ROE (7 August 2011)

Starcraftmazter said:


> Seems like a lot of banks (including yours) are giving $600 free brockerage. If you are looking more into long-term cheapest pricing, then perhaps Bell Direct (www.belldirect.com.au) or Interactive Brokers (www.interactivebrokers.com) might be good.
> 
> There's some $10 per trade one as well, but everyone seems to say bad things about them, so...




Nothing stopping you from sign up use $600 free trade then move later


----------



## johnnyhuynh21 (16 August 2011)

Hi,

I've recently just started stock trading and using commsec as my broker. I've got a couple of questions to ask and was wondering if anyone could help.

I study finance so i know most of the basics and the jargon used but never really engaged in any real life trading. The only book i've read was "one up on wall street" by peter lynch which mainly focuses on fundamental trading. In practice, how is fundamental trading compared to technical ?

Also, in finance, we study many models to value stocks but obviously in real life these models dont really work. (dividend discount model etc etc..) So i was wondering if there was a general way to estimate the value of a stock ? ofcourse i'm not hoping for the exact price but just an estimate of how much i should be paying for a stock ? Would something like the dividend discount model be able to provide me with a somewhat estimation of a stocks price ? if so, how would i get the variables such as required return or beta ?

Another thing i was thinking of was shorting but realised this wasnt possible with a commsec account. However, i learnt that i can use options to create a synthetic position and was wondering how i could do this using commsec ?

Basically, right now ive just been trying to look out for good newer companies that are forming, doing a little bit of research on them and if i think they will grow in the near future then to go long on them rather than trading everyday based on technical analysis (buying low, selling high, looking for rebounds etc) but was wondering if this was a good strategy at all.


----------



## Boggo (16 August 2011)

johnnyhuynh21 said:


> I study finance so i know most of the basics and the jargon used but never really engaged in any real life trading. The only book i've read was "one up on wall street" by peter lynch which mainly focuses on fundamental trading. *In practice, how is fundamental trading compared to technical ?*
> 
> Also, in finance, we study many models to value stocks but obviously in real life these models dont really work. (dividend discount model etc etc..) So i was wondering if there was a general way to estimate the value of a stock ? ofcourse i'm not hoping for the exact price but just an estimate of how much i should be paying for a stock ? Would something like the dividend discount model be able to provide me with a somewhat estimation of a stocks price ? if so, how would i get the variables such as required return or beta ?




Not sure if you have heard of StockDoctor by Lincoln Indicators. They approach the fundamentals of each company by grading them on the risk of failure rather than success.
Their methods are definitely worth a look. One extreme example was their prediction that OneTel was doomed to fail was met with a resounding cry of "fertiliser" especially as the Packer's and Murdoch's were involved.
The share price went from listing at $2 in 1997 to around $13.50 in just over a year to the end of 1998 and by mid 2000 it was around $1.

It basically proved that the standard fundamental nonsense that is fed to the masses is usually out of date, usually what investors want to hear and usually serves the interests of those producing the information more than anyone else.

On this site I regularly see comments and "analysis" based on this type of reporting and I expect that probably 50% of them would say "One who ?" if asked about OneTel.

Would you hang your washing out to dry tomorrow because on the 17th last year and the year before it was a fine day or would you look at the actual weather pattern that has been forming over the last few days and work out from that with almost certainty what the weather will be tomorrow and the next day until the chart shows you when the trend is changing.

Have a read of any information you can get on the likes of the OneTel's, Harris Scarfe's and quite a few others and you will probably learn more than any text book can teach.

If charting didn't exist and the ability to read charts (technical analysis) didn't exist then we would be dependant on what each company is telling us this year (with their fingers crossed) about what will carry them through to the next reporting season. 

Just my  after around 15 years of sensitising my BS detector at my own expense


----------



## jank (18 August 2011)

First post so be kind.

Can one offset their investment expenses such as books, magazines, subscriptions, brokers etc against your taxes?


----------



## KurwaJegoMac (18 August 2011)

jank said:


> First post so be kind.
> 
> Can one offset their investment expenses such as books, magazines, subscriptions, brokers etc against your taxes?




Provided that the expense is related to you earning an income, then yes. However there are some subtle differences for brokerage costs depending on whether the ATO classes you as a trader or investor.


----------



## jank (18 August 2011)

KurwaJegoMac said:


> Provided that the expense is related to you earning an income, then yes. However there are some subtle differences for brokerage costs depending on whether the ATO classes you as a trader or investor.




Well I have bought shares and I will be getting dividends from most of them. I presume this would classify as proof. I would be more of an investor than a trader.


----------



## 1Ryan (19 August 2011)

Hi Everybody,

I am trying to decide how to unwind some investments decisions made under the 'guidance' of a financial planner.
I have a couple of questions and I understand the responses are not to be taken as advice however I would appreciate you're input. 

The scenario:

Portfolio value is approximately $100,000.
Tied up in 5 different funds as per advice from a recently fired finical planner.
Risk profile is aggressive (I'm only in my late 20's).
My budget is cash flow positive.


Goals
- I want to move from managed funds to direct ownership however I am not confidant I can organise this in one step.
- I am investing for the long term.
- In the short to mid term I aim to achieve an index rate of return.
- Low cost and low maintenance while I learn as much as I can about how to directly invest. 

Considerations
- I will have a minimal CGT liability if I sell at current values.
- Exit fees will be less than future managed fund under performance.
- I do not know enough about assessing individual stocks in order to pick “core assets” at this time.
- Because of my lack of knowledge it may be wise to reinvest my money into a couple of index funds consistent with an asset allocation that aligns with my risk profile. 

Questions.

1. What are the risks when I move from managed funds to an index fund or LIC with the same asset allocation?

2. Is it silly for me to exit actively managed funds in order to purchase index funds leading to a situation where in future I will need to sell again with possible CGT in order to purchase directly.

3. Is it necessary to pay for a rating service such as Morningstar in order to access quality information to compare funds and companies.

Thanks for reading.


----------



## Chasero (3 September 2011)

Hi,

2 quick questions:

1) If I buy shares in company A for $10,000.00 at 10am, can I sell them at 10:30am? Then purchase more shares in say company B for 10,000.00 at 10:31am? (less brokerage of course) Or is there a delay for the funds being transferred or the shares being "settled"?

2) How do I get my HIN? I already bought some shares but I only received a NEW CHESS HOLDER statement from the ASX showing my 10 digit HIN.

When I try to check my holding on Computershare, it says it must begin with the letter H, I or N?

I have tried all 3 letters in front of my 10 digits and none of them work. Why don't they give us an 11 digit HIN with the letter?


----------



## bellenuit (3 September 2011)

Chasero said:


> Hi,
> 
> 2 quick questions:
> 
> ...




1. Depends on the broker, but with CommSec yes you can. Technically when you buy shares your funds are to be available on the morning of T+3 for settlement and when you sell shares  the funds aren't accessible to you until after close of business on T+3.  However, unless you tell it otherwise, CommSec will net buys and sells that are close together (they call it offsetting). 

_Unless you tell us not to, we will offset payments when you buy and sell within a short time.
CommSec will transfer the net amount to or from your settlement account when you either:
 Buy shares and then sell shares on the same day or the next trading day.
 Sell shares and then buy shares on the same day or the next two trading days._

The above is from their Client Guide brochure (you can download as a PDF). There are also some examples given to help illustrate (see under the heading Payments and Offsets).

Apart from the finance aspect, you can also sell shares immediately after buying them even though settlement isn't until T+3 and theoretically you don't own them until settlement. Day traders do it all the time.

2. My HINS begin with the letter X.  Give that a try.


----------



## Chasero (3 September 2011)

bellenuit said:


> 1. Depends on the broker, but with CommSec yes you can. Technically when you buy shares your funds are to be available on the morning of T+3 for settlement and when you sell shares  the funds aren't accessible to you until after close of business on T+3.  However, unless you tell it otherwise, CommSec will net buys and sells that are close together (they call it offsetting).
> 
> _Unless you tell us not to, we will offset payments when you buy and sell within a short time.
> CommSec will transfer the net amount to or from your settlement account when you either:
> ...




Thanks! 

For question 2 it says:

Your SRN/HIN/Holder Number is 11 characters. The first character is an alpha character and begins with the an 'i', 'n' or 'x'. The remaining 10 characters are numbers. For example: i9999999999, n9999999999, x9999999999.

I've tried X, N, I, x, n, i, in front of my 10 digits and still no luck.


It's weird how they don't tell us what letter is in front of our 10 digits?

I might call them up on Monday. God failed 5 times again. I think I was thrown off their example, and that my HIN is actually only 10 digits. Will try again later.

So since I can't check my holdings on a share registry, does all the dividends directly go to the share trading account automatically?


----------



## Julia (3 September 2011)

Chasero, I wouldn't have thought it made a difference but have you tried making the 'X" a capital letter rather than the lower case you have suggested above.

I've just been assigned a new HIN because I've changed the trustee on my a/c and its ten characters following the "X" start with "00".

Best to phone your broker.


----------



## Chasero (3 September 2011)

Julia said:


> Chasero, I wouldn't have thought it made a difference but have you tried making the 'X" a capital letter rather than the lower case you have suggested above.
> 
> I've just been assigned a new HIN because I've changed the trustee on my a/c and its ten characters following the "X" start with "00".
> 
> Best to phone your broker.




Yep I've tried all upper case/lower case. Even went to their help which says the HIN is not case sensitive.

I think I know the problem. I have bought the shares on 31 August 2011, and the settlement date is 5 September 2011. That means the share registry has not updated my info yet? I thought it was only 2 days to settle the shares but I guess I was wrong.


----------



## Starcraftmazter (5 September 2011)

I have a question regarding what takes precedence when carrying out orders - time (first come first served) or price?

In particular, if we have something like:

We have a company trading at $10, with 2 would-be sellers and 2 would-be buyers - all if which are buying and selling an identical amount of shares. The market is a few minutes before open and there are no trades yet.

*First*
Seller A puts in a sell order for $10 
Buyer A puts in a buy order for $10

*A minute later*
Seller B puts in a sell order at $9
Buyer B puts in a buy order at $11


What happens?


Also, if we reverse the situation...

*First*
Seller B puts in a sell order at $9
Buyer B puts in a buy order at $11

*A minute later*
Seller A puts in a sell order for $10 
Buyer A puts in a buy order for $10

What happens?


Thanks


----------



## tech/a (5 September 2011)

Starcraftmazter said:


> I have a question regarding what takes precedence when carrying out orders - time (first come first served) or price?
> 
> In particular, if we have something like:
> 
> ...




If there are no other bidders then in A
B gets filled at $9
In B
A gets filled at $10


----------



## Starcraftmazter (5 September 2011)

So, price always takes precedence and time only matters between people who put in an order at the same price - is that right?

Does that also mean that the lowest sell and highest buy orders get matched up first?


----------



## skc (5 September 2011)

tech/a said:


> If there are no other bidders then in A
> B gets filled at $9
> In B
> A gets filled at $10




That's wrong. In both scenarios everybody gets matched up at $10 with no remaining volume.



Starcraftmazter said:


> So, price always takes precedence and time only matters between people who put in an order at the same price - is that right?
> 
> Does that also mean that the lowest sell and highest buy orders get matched up first?




Yes price always take precedence and time only matter when price is the same. If you want your order filled you can put in as high/low a price as needed, but your volume might move the match price.


----------



## Wysiwyg (5 September 2011)

There is an algorithm. http://www.asx.com.au/products/calculate-open-close-prices.htm


----------



## tech/a (5 September 2011)

skc said:


> That's wrong. In both scenarios everybody gets matched up at $10 with no remaining volume.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes price always take precedence and time only matter when price is the same. If you want your order filled you can put in as high/low a price as needed, but your volume might move the match




Yeh your right.
Same average


----------



## Starcraftmazter (5 September 2011)

Just read that algorithm thing, quite interesting.

Thanks for the help all.


----------



## Chasero (20 September 2011)

Just 2 quick questions:

I've researched ex dividend dates and record date. Some sites say you have to hold the shares till the record date to be entitled to the dividend.

Other sites say you can sell shares after the ex-div date but before record date and still be entitled to the dividend.

Which one is true?

Also, regarding the franking credit entitlements, do I have to own the shares for 45 days to be entitled to franking credits? I thought this was only IF you had more than 5000 dollars of franking credits, then this rule applies?

Thanks.


----------



## MovieManiac (23 September 2011)

Not sure if this has been asked before, and wasn't sure of appropriate search terms. Wondering if anyone can point me to some useful resources (books or online) the describes the whole franking credits thing.

I read a book published around '93 the other day (The Art of Investment), and it kind of explained it but I still don't 100% get it. The way the ASX online course made even less sense to me.

If it's 100% franked, it just means you don't have to pay tax on the dividend received right? Similarly, if its 70% franked, you have to pay tax yourself on the extra 30%?

Also, on asx prices and research. i.e. ANZ: http://www.asx.com.au/asx/research/companyInfo.do?by=asxCode&allinfo=&asxCode=anz#dividends

it says 100% franked in the % franked column, and in the further information column: 64C FRANKED @ 30% D.R.P. & B.O.P.

In the case of being a part of DRP, means you have to pay tax on the 70% extra?

Thanks for any info.


----------



## skc (23 September 2011)

Chasero said:


> Just 2 quick questions:
> 
> I've researched ex dividend dates and record date. Some sites say you have to hold the shares till the record date to be entitled to the dividend.
> 
> ...




You only need to hold past ex-date. 

The 45-day rule only applies if you claim more than $5k of franking credits.



MovieManiac said:


> Not sure if this has been asked before, and wasn't sure of appropriate search terms. Wondering if anyone can point me to some useful resources (books or online) the describes the whole franking credits thing.
> 
> I read a book published around '93 the other day (The Art of Investment), and it kind of explained it but I still don't 100% get it. The way the ASX online course made even less sense to me.
> 
> ...




Your franking credit is also known as franking coupon... now imagine an invisible coupon attached to your dividend cheque. This amount is tax already paid by the company. When you detach that 'coupon' you can redeem it at the tax office to pay your tax, although you also need to include the value of that coupon in your taxable income.

So...say with ANZ paying 63c dividend franked at 100%. Which means there is an invisible coupon of 27c franking credit.

Your taxable income is 63c + 27c = 90c.
If your marginal tax rate happens to be 30%. Your tax liability is 30% * 90c = 27c.
Now you can detach that invisible 27c coupon and pay the tax office. So your net tax is 0c. This will only be the case as your personal tax rate of 30% = company tax rate.

Work it out for yourself what happens if your tax rate is 19% or 45%. The calculation is the same but in one case you have a net credit with the tax office (which they pay you in cash) and in the other, you have to pay additional tax.

The operation of a DRP doesn't change your tax or how franking credits work.


----------



## bears (24 September 2011)

Hello, 

would someone be able to explain to me what tax loss selling is and what effects it has (on stock prices as well)?


----------



## MovieManiac (24 September 2011)

skc said:


> Your franking credit is also known as franking coupon... now imagine an invisible coupon attached to your dividend cheque. This amount is tax already paid by the company. When you detach that 'coupon' you can redeem it at the tax office to pay your tax, although you also need to include the value of that coupon in your taxable income.
> 
> So...say with ANZ paying 63c dividend franked at 100%. Which means there is an invisible coupon of 27c franking credit.
> 
> ...




Oh ok cool. Thanks. That makes a bit more sense. How do you calculate that the coupon on the 63 cents is equal to 27 cents?


----------



## skc (24 September 2011)

MovieManiac said:


> Oh ok cool. Thanks. That makes a bit more sense. How do you calculate that the coupon on the 63 cents is equal to 27 cents?




Corporate tax rate = 30%. 

Gross up dividend = 63c / 0.7 = 90c

Franking credit = gross up dividend x corporate tax rate = 27c.


----------



## Chasero (28 September 2011)

skc said:


> You only need to hold past ex-date.
> 
> The 45-day rule only applies if you claim more than $5k of franking credits.




Thanks! Makes sense now..


----------



## KurwaJegoMac (28 September 2011)

bears said:


> Hello,
> 
> would someone be able to explain to me what tax loss selling is and what effects it has (on stock prices as well)?




Sometimes when nearing the end of financial year investors will sell shares that are at a loss in order to offset capital gains from other investments (capital losses on shares can be used to offset capital gains on shares).

In effect they reduce their tax bill. In certain cases they will sell the shares at a loss just prior to the end of financial year and buy them back shortly after at roughly the same price (if possible). That way they get an immediate reduction to their capital gains tax bill and still hold the same stock for roughly the same price. Note that this practice is called 'white washing' and is punishable by the ATO. 

It's effect on stock prices is that it can dampen prices in June as higher than normal volume of selling occurs - but this is not a given. From memory there was no significant statistical correlation between the two.


----------



## Diggs1 (15 October 2011)

*Re: Queries from a newbie*



newbie trader said:


> Hi I'm Newbie Trader,
> 
> I'm 18 and am currently studying law. I will finish my degree when I am about 23. Over the next few years I have planned (since I was about 15) to work earning money which I can invest into the stock market (have after 3 years of reading, watching, paper trading just begun investing). Once my degree is completed and provided I have enough money I hope to buy some kind of rental property. Whilst I have some idea about trading stocks (have come up with my own trading strategy as basic as it may be), I really have no idea about property investing (something which I hope to change over the next couple of years). Hence I have two questions...
> 
> ...




How good is this. He's 18 and already been learning and paper trading for 3 years, and now doing a law degree. This kid is going to be very successful. I wish I knew what trading was at his age!!

Well done mate. Much success to you


----------



## jonafern (5 January 2012)

Hi,

I'm planning to start investing in shares shortly, I'm quite new and trying to learn as much as I can. I'm also trying to get a gig at a prop shop.

I was wondering if some of you could recommend some magazine subscriptions, newspapers and websites, that I may find useful and help me get started. Also wondering which websites people use for news and updates on the market. 

Thanks


----------



## joea (5 January 2012)

jonafern said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm planning to start investing in shares shortly, I'm quite new and trying to learn as much as I can. I'm also trying to get a gig at a prop shop.
> 
> ...




jonafern.
Everything you asked for is probably on this forum already.
Go to Forum Jump, click the menu, and happy hunting.
Its all there.
If you want a jump start and would like to trade the wyckoff method go to::
www.readTheTicker.com and there is a list of books.
After 81 years it is thought this is a good method.
joea p.s. that will keep you busy full time for 2 weeks with no sleep.


----------



## bailx (5 January 2012)

jonafern said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm planning to start investing in shares shortly, I'm quite new and trying to learn as much as I can. I'm also trying to get a gig at a prop shop.
> 
> ...




Fair Go! Jonafern, here's the _heads up_! on a few sites I know of to help you get started. All the best on your trading journey. My best _tip_ would be to keep digging around the internet. There's a lot of good educational stuff out there that shouldn't cost you a cent.

http://www.tradingroom.com.au/apps/index.ac 
http://www.news.com.au/
http://www.incrediblecharts.com/sitemap.php?cluster=16
http://informe.com/go/?domain=stockbrokers.com


----------



## jonafern (5 January 2012)

thanks


----------



## Starcraftmazter (5 January 2012)

jonafern said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm planning to start investing in shares shortly, I'm quite new and trying to learn as much as I can. I'm also trying to get a gig at a prop shop.
> 
> ...




The only website of importance
www.macrobusiness.com.au


----------



## So_Cynical (5 January 2012)

Starcraftmazter said:


> The only website of importance
> www.macrobusiness.com.au




Interesting...thanks.


----------



## newbie trader (7 January 2012)

Just with regards to the dividends discussion on the previous page - does that mean that for instance if I buy TLS on Fri the 17th Feb, I can then collect a dividend (ex-dividence Mon 20th)? If so, how long after that do I need to hold before selling?


----------



## So_Cynical (7 January 2012)

newbie trader said:


> Just with regards to the dividends discussion on the previous page - does that mean that for instance if I buy TLS on Fri the 17th Feb, I can then collect a dividend (ex-dividence Mon 20th)? If so, how long after that do I need to hold before selling?




http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/content.aspx?menuid=0&doc=/content/00237927.htm&page=11


----------



## newbie trader (8 January 2012)

Thanks for the link SC much appreciated.


----------



## SamReyy (20 January 2012)

Hello everybody.
This marks my second post on the forums after having just introduced myself in the newbies introduction thread.
I'll just run a bit of a background story on myself before i ask my questions.
I'm 20 years old, I work full time at port of Brisbane and have money in the bank which i would like to invest. 
I do not know much when it comes to the stock market but i have been reading and trying to learn the basics. I have been listening to Bloomberg radio on the way to and from work for quite some time and its influenced me to get involved and have a go at investing my money instead of just watching it sit in the bank producing a pitiful amount of interest.

Some questions, please excuse any ignorance. 
Is it a bad time to be getting involved in the stock market with the way the global economy is going or is there no such thing as a bad time or a good time to get started?
Can i get some recommendations for a good beginner friendly stock broker? 
I was looking to buy stock in a US based company. Ab tech industries to be specific.

Well, thanks for reading!


----------



## bailx (22 January 2012)

SamReyy said:


> Hello everybody.
> 
> Some questions, please excuse any ignorance.
> Is it a bad time to be getting involved in the stock market with the way the global economy is going or is there no such thing as a bad time or a good time to get started?
> ...




Hi There SamRayy,

Its never a bad time to enter the market its always a _good time_ you just have to now the _right time_! If the Market is down it can be working in your favor towards the future! 
I too am interested in the U.S Market, I think it is choice to trade there Market because it is more beneficial. With much more potential.   
can i suggest to you that, much like my self that your dig around more to discover the sort of trading that suites you best. For yourself and your budget! I personally like to start from the bottom and work my way up!
I tried to looking up (AB Tech Industries) but couldn't find a thing. have you got the name wrong? what is it's trading  symbol.

http://informe.com/go/?domain=stockbrokers.com 
http://www.news.com.au/
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23757


----------



## Wysiwyg (22 January 2012)

The professional money will eat your lunch because of this.


SamReyy said:


> Hello everybody.
> I do not know much when it comes to the stock market but i have been reading and trying to learn the basics.




The property market is at a good phase because interest rates are declining and house prices are easing. Take advantage of the first home buyer grant and if eligible, the builders boost.


----------



## SamReyy (23 January 2012)

bailx said:


> Hi There SamRayy,
> 
> Its never a bad time to enter the market its always a _good time_ you just have to now the _right time_! If the Market is down it can be working in your favor towards the future!
> I too am interested in the U.S Market, I think it is choice to trade there Market because it is more beneficial. With much more potential.
> ...




Thanks for the great advice and the useful links. Here is a link to Ab tech http://www.abtechindustries.com/investors/stock-info.aspx


----------



## johnnyhuynh21 (22 February 2012)

Hi,

I am currently new to investing in the market and have just started out my career as a grad doing auditing. I was also looking to invest in the stock market but wanted to specialise in a specific market sector/industry. I studied accounting and corporate finance but other than that have no outside knowledge. I know that as an auditor it wouldnt be too hard to specialise in particular clients so i know the industry well. 

However, the one industry im most interested in is financials as its what i studied as although i dont know much its still much more than i know about say mining or pharmaceuticals. But with the state of the current market what do people suggest a strong sector to focus on would be for the next 5-10 years? The two criteria that are most important for me in picking a sector would be profitability and how interesting i find that sector. 

Ofcourse im not asking people to just tell me a particular industry to focus on but more the pro's and con's of certain industrys or where i can find more information on the issue ?

thanks so much!


----------



## Klogg (22 February 2012)

Starcraftmazter said:


> The only website of importance
> www.macrobusiness.com.au




While I like the site and the bloggers there are very intelligent, the majority of posts have a very bearish bias. Property, China, Europe, mining boom - they're usually bearish on the lot.

This is just my opinion ofcourse - and it doesn't stop me from reading the site almost daily.


----------



## Starcraftmazter (22 February 2012)

Klogg said:


> While I like the site and the bloggers there are very intelligent, the majority of posts have a very bearish bias. Property, China, Europe, mining boom - they're usually bearish on the lot.
> 
> This is just my opinion ofcourse - and it doesn't stop me from reading the site almost daily.




Bearish doesn't mean wrong


----------



## ladyaimee (28 February 2012)

Hi, I am not looking at doing anything fancy whatsoever. I used to work at NAB and have a good amount of NAB shares that were given to me during my time there. Now I want to continue purchasing blue chip shares. I only want to buy, only blue chip, the onyl advice I need is the best way to do this - thinking the cheapest online stock trader possible as I will only be purchasing a couple of blue chip shares every few weeks, thats it. Thanks


----------



## Tysonboss1 (28 February 2012)

ladyaimee said:


> Hi, I am not looking at doing anything fancy whatsoever. I used to work at NAB and have a good amount of NAB shares that were given to me during my time there. Now I want to continue purchasing blue chip shares. I only want to buy, only blue chip, the onyl advice I need is the best way to do this - thinking the cheapest online stock trader possible as I will only be purchasing a couple of blue chip shares every few weeks, thats it. Thanks




Hi ladyaimee,

Owning some good quality companies is a good idea,

However the term blue chip is thrown alot, 

Just because it is blue chip does not mean it's a quality company, it just means it's a big company thats been pretty stable and is a house hold name.

any way,

Any of the online brokers should be fine, Commsec or etrade etc,

But have you goven any thought to how you will select the shares you wish to invest in, or how you will know which price to buy them at.

I think if you are planning to put in regular amounts each month or so, You might do better by buying into a lowcost index fund for the asx200.

If you haven't spent alot of time learning to value businesses or have alot of knowledge in trading you might get a poor result from trying to pick winners.


----------



## pat888 (29 February 2012)

*questions*

Hi ...

I'm a total noob in the sharemarket and I've a few questions for the experts, which I hope can be answered.

Firstly, if I want to read about the historical stock market perfomance, where should I go?
I have accessed quite a number of sites (free sites) , but they are not in-depth. From this reading, I was hoping to be able to understand the movements of the market in a more detailed manner.

Secondly, where should I go if I want to read papers on future economy (global & local). I have a few papers sent to my email (work email), but they are not quite good (ANZ,treasury? or rba?). Or is my expectation too high?

Thirdly, what do usually happen to the stock price after capital raising, in the short to medium term? and what will happen to it in the long term?

Fourthly, I have been watching news lately. From the readings I've done, I found that whenever a company is being sought after for a takeover, the share price of this company usually increases. The share price decreased when the offer is rejected.
Is this right?

Lastly, I'm not sure whether now is the right to buy (I'm thinking of buying only blue chips, unless I can find good & cheap stocks). 
So in overall, is the economy starting to recover? 
How about the Europe debt? Will they have some kind of measures again to prevent contamination? 
I was advised to sell before March,  because of war (?), & to invest in oil and/or defense-related companies (local and/or overseas). 

I'm sorry that I ask too many questions.

These questions have been breweing in my mind & I think, the best way is to ask questions in this kind of forum.

Thank you very much, beforehand.

Good night!


----------



## ProverbialPaul (29 February 2012)

Starcraftmazter said:


> The only website of importance
> www.macrobusiness.com.au




Good site. Thank you


----------



## bailx (1 March 2012)

*Re: questions*

Pat888
 I'm a total noob in the sharemarket and I've a few questions for the experts, which I hope can be answered

    Hi

    Firstly, I'm no expert,but I think I can answer your questions, with some short answers and some helpful links for you to study. Good Luck!

    I always figured that you could back date your charts, for historical data performance. But lucky for you I came across this site at the right time http://trademiner.com/ I think its worth it.
    Recently I've been reading the Financial Times, http://www.ft.com/intl/servicestools/help/terms I think it has everything you may need.
    I never really understood your third question, but on a good guess, I think it all comes down to technical V's Fundamental Analysis, http://www.**************/articles/2...ntal-analysis/ All in All some stocks are Fundamentally stronger and will hold a Trends momentum for the long term. Where as others need to be technically Analysis as there trade may not be fundamentally strong enough, and may fall into the short to medium term.
    The share price of a bid take over is often larger then the stocks net worth, this in turn is appreciated by the share price and it will increase. Where as if the bid is declined it will not decrease the share price in general.
http://asxnewbie.com/category/education/ Personally I think that NOW is a good as time as ever to enter. Perhaps your a bit novice about those Blue Chips. Well I wouldn't be, there old school. I think you will be better of buying into something that is Good and Cheap. You will get better returns for your Dollar. Be sure to have a good broker, http://informe.com/go/?domain=stockbrokers.com because you will need do a lot of prospecting. I know of a lot of good cheap stocks that will make a lot of money. I looked around the Australian and U.S Market mainly to do with Oil, Mining & Energy.
    Don't let the European Crisis get in your way. The economy been recovered for years and not looked back. Always think of the positives. Certainly don't sell because of a war on the other side of the planet. This could be good for business

    Congratulations and good luck with your future endeavors.

    All the Best
    bailx


----------



## bailx (4 March 2012)

_ I realize there may be a broken link in my armor. After answering Pat888's questions, it got me thinking that some questions need to be answered and not every one including myself knows exactly what their on about or doing, when starting out into the share market. So i traced over some old notes and found these for a good approach and a quick reference for those just starting out;_ 

http://www.tradingacademy.com/dojispace/taclass_dojispace.htm


----------



## Solar (4 March 2012)

*Re: questions*



pat888 said:


> Hi ...
> I'm a total noob in the sharemarket and I've a few questions for the experts, which I hope can be answered.




Pat,

I have been day trading for almost 10 years. You can make really good money in the market but expect to work more hours per day than you would do in a 9 to 5 job. If you decide to move away from trading stocks and trade the indexes and forex, as I do, then get ready to work and trade 24/7 and learn how to trade the trend, which is your only friend.


----------



## So_Cynical (4 March 2012)

ladyaimee said:


> Hi, I am not looking at doing anything fancy whatsoever. I used to work at NAB and have a good amount of NAB shares that were given to me during my time there. Now I want to continue purchasing blue chip shares. I only want to buy, only blue chip, the onyl advice I need is the best way to do this - thinking the cheapest online stock trader possible as I will only be purchasing a couple of blue chip shares every few weeks, thats it. Thanks




CMC is the cheapest at about $10 a trade http://www.cmcmarkets.com.au/stockbroking 

Bell direct is next at around $15 https://www.belldirect.com.au/

Then Comsec and Westpac at around $20 https://www.comsec.com.au/
https://onlineinvesting.westpac.com.au/Public/Trading/AustralianShares.aspx

I use comsec because of the linked (free) cash and high interest accounts and ATM card.


----------



## qldfrog (4 March 2012)

Bell direct is next at around $15 https://www.belldirect.com.au/

If of interest,
Bell direct is $15 for the first 5 trades I think then $13 then $10
please confirm with web site
My trader portfolio reaches the $10 every month


----------



## Sergio (5 March 2012)

So_Cynical said:


> CMC is the cheapest at about $10 a trade http://www.cmcmarkets.com.au/stockbroking
> 
> Bell direct is next at around $15 https://www.belldirect.com.au/
> 
> ...




errrmmm...i thought interactive broker 6 bucks per trade?


----------



## bailx (5 March 2012)

Party hard! Whats the deal with Options House % Zecco?

http://www.dojispace.com/articles/2011/05/how-to-choose-a-stock-broker/


----------



## So_Cynical (5 March 2012)

Sergio said:


> errrmmm...i thought interactive broker 6 bucks per trade?




Apples and Oranges.

$6 a trade at IB and the shares are owned/held by IB on your behalf/in trust for you. So your name is not on any company share registries etc...then there's the opening balance of 10K US and the minimum balance of 2.5K

With BELL, CMC and Comsec etc you own the shares...and there's no minimum balance etc...Have you heard of a mob called MF Global?


----------



## Trembling Hand (5 March 2012)

So_Cynical said:


> $6 a trade at IB and the shares are owned/held by IB on your behalf/in trust for you. So your name is not on any company share registries etc...then there's the opening balance of 10K US and the minimum balance of 2.5K
> 
> With BELL, CMC and Comsec etc you own the shares...and there's no minimum balance etc...Have you heard of a mob called MF Global?




Thats been sorted they are now chess sponsored. But IB are for frequent traders so hardly matters for "a stock market beginner".


----------



## ladyaimee (14 March 2012)

Tysonboss1 said:


> Just because it is blue chip does not mean it's a quality company, it just means it's a big company thats been pretty stable and is a house hold name.




Sorry I didn't see this until now, I thought id get notifications of replies so hadn't checked back. Thanks for letting me know. I just meant putting money into companies like NAB, where shares are stable and pay dividends and for me it would be like a way of forced savings with money I wont miss.. to gradually build up an amount of shares so that I am reaping the benefits in dividends years down the track..



Tysonboss1 said:


> Any of the online brokers should be fine, Commsec or etrade etc,




Thanks for naming a few for me to look into!



Tysonboss1 said:


> I think if you are planning to put in regular amounts each month or so, You might do better by buying into a lowcost index fund for the asx200.
> If you haven't spent alot of time learning to value businesses or have alot of knowledge in trading you might get a poor result from trying to pick winners.




Again thanks for another good idea, and something I can look into. I wasn't really trying to pick winners, more shares I know will pay dividends and grow but it's good to think there are other safe options, thank you


----------



## Mr McGee (21 March 2012)

Hi ASF!

I have been rummaging through the forum for about a month or so and learning where I can about everything from shorting to the carbon tax! Its been a ride at times, and I look forward to hopefully contributing some useful (if not simple) posts myself from here on in. 

But right now since the offer in the first post of this thread was to ask that one question you don’t seem to be able to get to the bottom of yourself, I’m going to take the opportunity here.

So here goes.

On a LOC against a PPOR that is in both my wife's name and mine own. Can I buy shares in my name only and claim 100% of the interest on my tax return?? Even though my wife’s name is on the LOC, it is not on our share portfolio.

Thanks in advance.
Mr McGee.


----------



## johnnyhuynh21 (4 May 2012)

Hey ASF, i just have a question regarding options!

Now i'm not actually trading options yet, but rather doing an assignment for my options course in university. The question asked us to identify any mispriced option in any market in the world and then the steps we'd take to make an arbitrage profit using delta hedging over a 3 week period and rebalancing our portfolio's.

So the issue i have is which methods do i have available in detecting mispricing ? The method that i can come up with on the top of my head was just to use black scholes on random options i pick and try to calculate historic volatilty using methods also taught in this course and then comparing it with implied volatilty. Was there any other ways i could do this ? i was also told not to use Put call parity. Also, if i do come up with a price, does it need to fall within the bid-ask spread ? or is it okay to say that i calculated the option price to be $5 and the bid:5.5 Ask:6 so the option is underpriced by 50c so long that option and short a stock ?

As its only an assignment, im sure that if the method doesnt really work if i really trade, it shouldnt be much of a problem if i can explain why.

thank you!


----------



## burglar (4 May 2012)

johnnyhuynh21 said:


> Hey ASF, i just have a question regarding options!
> 
> ...
> thank you!




You should ask the Professor!


----------



## Trembling Hand (4 May 2012)

burglar said:


> You should ask the Professor!




If he could find mis-priced assets do you think he would be teaching?


Johnnyhuynh21 maybe ask one of the option gurus around here in the derivatives threads.


----------



## burglar (4 May 2012)

Trembling Hand said:


> If he could find mis-priced assets do you think he would be teaching?
> 
> 
> Johnnyhuynh21 maybe ask one of the option gurus around here in the derivatives threads.




You are right to rebuke me TH. 
It was a fair question and I gave a $martar$e answer!

(It does make me wander though, that it is Ok to get it wrong, after all I'm only going to become a much hated Financial Adviser anyways!! :


----------



## johnnyhuynh21 (30 May 2012)

hey i was just wondering, now that ive started trading what drives movements in the asx 200?

As in, what kind of news over night, or in general would make the asx 200 move up or down during the day ? i notice a lot of people say things like "today is just a dead bounce and the market will continue to trend down as there is no good news in the world what so ever" i would like to be able to at least have an idea of what drives movements in our market and was wondering if someone could perhaps give a small list of the main things that influence movement! 

thank you!


----------



## History Repeats (30 May 2012)

I hope you are not trading live. 

To get you started have a look at:

Bureau of Statistics
RBA
Bloomberg

Do your own due diligence next time. Other wise you are not going to survive very long.


----------



## ROE (30 May 2012)

johnnyhuynh21 said:


> hey i was just wondering, now that ive started trading what drives movements in the asx 200?
> 
> As in, what kind of news over night, or in general would make the asx 200 move up or down during the day ? i notice a lot of people say things like "today is just a dead bounce and the market will continue to trend down as there is no good news in the world what so ever" i would like to be able to at least have an idea of what drives movements in our market and was wondering if someone could perhaps give a small list of the main things that influence movement!
> 
> thank you!




Our ASX200 is mainly banks and mining so any news that affect these two sectors should drive the index in either directions.

you are like any other traders trying to predict the movements of index based
on all available information at hand.

There is no wrong or right answer, it just your interpretation vs other traders.
if the market move against you, you are wrong and the other guy is right.

If anyone know what drive the market with 100% accuracy they can be VERY VERY rich


----------



## Julia (30 May 2012)

Do you keep abreast of general news bulletins and current affairs programs via print or electronic media?


----------



## johnnyhuynh21 (31 May 2012)

yeah i keep track of most things, i do have bloomberg and check that pretty consistently, also i do study accounting and corporate finance so my professors are always going on about whats happening and i do read the news. It wasnt suppose to be a specific question where i ask how to predict the market or anything, just a general kind of question on what kind of information influences movements in the asx.

Thank you for the responses and especially the one about banks and mining, appreciated!


----------



## burglar (31 May 2012)

johnnyhuynh21 said:


> ... what kind of information influences movements in the asx. ...!



A long, long time ago ...


I once owned shares in Lennard Oil. 
They struck gas off N.T. and W.A. 
Biggest field in the world or so they said.
The share price went down.
U.S. Politics were in the headlines!


----------



## johnnyhuynh21 (1 June 2012)

hey guys sorry for having so many questions, just rapidly trying to learn more and more, thank you for the previous responses they were quite helpful.

I am looking into designing a mechanical trading system for entry and exit points, but rather than all my trades being done on a system, i just want to test whether some of the strategies i have in planned are at least somewhat decent.

I was looking for a program that would allow me to enter my own entry and exit conditions and then back test my results based on historic data, i dont plan on using this with real money yet so even just paper money programs would be great!

thank!


----------



## Trembling Hand (1 June 2012)

here is a few

http://www.ninjatrader.com/

http://www.amibroker.com/

http://www.spacejock.com/FreechartsSE.html


----------



## CanOz (1 June 2012)

johnnyhuynh21 said:


> hey guys sorry for having so many questions, just rapidly trying to learn more and more, thank you for the previous responses they were quite helpful.
> 
> I am looking into designing a mechanical trading system for entry and exit points, but rather than all my trades being done on a system, i just want to test whether some of the strategies i have in planned are at least somewhat decent.
> 
> ...




In my opinion:

1.)* Multicharts* for intra-day automated systems
2.) *Amibroker* for EOD mechanical systems
3.) *Ninja Trader* for discretionary systems

-Multicharts is very easy on your systems resources and it runs flawlessly making use of all your systems cores. Quite fast for back-testing and optimizing.
-Amibroker is a bit clunky for intra-day trading but extremely fast for back testing EOD strats.
-NinjaTrader is a clunky price of 'software' that is resource intensive but handles the RT data flow the best of all of them in that you can program heaps of ways to handle that data flow. 

-Amibroker probably required the biggest learning curve, MC has probably the easiest language. NT has the most third party add ons and is easily the most commercialized now.

I have all three and actually use two for live trading and NT for SIM at the moment.

-Amibroker trades 20% flipper
-MC trades my system and another third party system
-NT i use for SIM trading using the DOM.

Cheers,


CanOz


----------



## johnnyhuynh21 (17 June 2012)

Hey guys i just have a question about swing trading. Lately ive been trying to learn how to swing trade using technical analysis. Ive been using moving averages (SMA and EMA cross overs) to identify trends and then ive been using bollinger bands, RSI, slow stochastics, MACD and then general support and resistance lines to trade, however, im a little confused as to what time frames i should use.

Ive been looking at daily intervals for a period going back 6 months and i've read i should also look at weekly and hourly time intervals. I've been trying this and getting mixed signals about trades, i was wondering what technical indicators should i use for a given timeframe? or should i use all the technical indicators i already use for all time frames and only trade then it all lines up ?

thanks!


----------



## tech/a (17 June 2012)

johnnyhuynh21 said:


> Hey guys i just have a question about swing trading. Lately ive been trying to learn how to swing trade using technical analysis. Ive been using moving averages (SMA and EMA cross overs) to identify trends and then ive been using bollinger bands, RSI, slow stochastics, MACD and then general support and resistance lines to trade, however, im a little confused as to what time frames i should use.
> 
> Ive been looking at daily intervals for a period going back 6 months and i've read i should also look at weekly and hourly time intervals. I've been trying this and getting mixed signals about trades, i was wondering what technical indicators should i use for a given timeframe? or should i use all the technical indicators i already use for all time frames and only trade then it all lines up ?
> 
> thanks!




Trade one timeframe.
Study pivots and support and resistance.
Understand volume demand and supply.
How to read It at potential pivots .

Understand risk and position sizing.


----------



## Trembling Hand (17 June 2012)

Johnny you are trying to shoehorn some tools (indicators & timeframe) into a result. You have it ar$e about.

As Tech has already said, understand support and resistance and what causes it, supply and demand, then trade that. Adding all these indicators and different timeframes will just complicate the picture and have you confused as to what you should be doing.


----------



## FIGJAM (9 November 2012)

here is quit possibly the dumbest question of all but I am going to ask it anyway.

What are the pros and cons to trading in the Dow or S&P 500 oposed to the ASX?

I knew what they were when writing covered calls (bigger pool of stocks to trade, better pricing structure only having to buy 100 shares per contract rather then 1000 etc)

Is it the same pros?

Cheers,


----------



## hotchy (12 December 2012)

So I'm obviously quite new at this, but what is happening with all of these trades with a volume of 7? I'm quite confused!


----------



## Out Too Soon (12 December 2012)

hotchy said:


> So I'm obviously quite new at this, but what is happening with all of these trades with a volume of 7? I'm quite confused!
> 
> View attachment 49920




Somebody will answer "automatic bots" (auto software program) & you will scratch your head, shrug your shoulders & say meh! My conspiracy theory is it's purpose is to artificially drive the sp up or down without outlaying a lot of capital, somebody with $100,000s of shares wont be worried about the relatively small cost. This is why it's always important to watch the volume of the transactions, not just the price which can be misleading. The ASX, ASIC should stop the practice, there is no point in these tiny deals except to deceive & manipulate.


----------



## Trembling Hand (12 December 2012)

Out Too Soon said:


> Somebody will answer "automatic bots" (auto software program) & you will scratch your head, shrug your shoulders & say meh! My conspiracy theory is it's purpose is to artificially drive the sp up or down without outlaying a lot of capital, somebody with $100,000s of shares wont be worried about the relatively small cost. This is why it's always important to watch the volume of the transactions, not just the price which can be misleading. The ASX, ASIC should stop the practice, there is no point in these tiny deals except to deceive & manipulate.




Utter rubbish!


----------



## hotchy (12 December 2012)

Out Too Soon said:


> Somebody will answer "automatic bots" (auto software program) & you will scratch your head, shrug your shoulders & say meh! My conspiracy theory is it's purpose is to artificially drive the sp up or down without outlaying a lot of capital, somebody with $100,000s of shares wont be worried about the relatively small cost. This is why it's always important to watch the volume of the transactions, not just the price which can be misleading. The ASX, ASIC should stop the practice, there is no point in these tiny deals except to deceive & manipulate.




I find it amazing to watch. Still happening. 

So what is the purpose of artificially driving up the SP?


----------



## Ves (12 December 2012)

Out Too Soon said:


> Somebody will answer "automatic bots" (auto software program) & you will scratch your head, shrug your shoulders & say meh! My conspiracy theory is it's purpose is to artificially drive the sp up or down without outlaying a lot of capital, somebody with $100,000s of shares wont be worried about the relatively small cost. This is why it's always important to watch the volume of the transactions, not just the price which can be misleading. The ASX, ASIC should stop the practice, there is no point in these tiny deals except to deceive & manipulate.



How can very small trades (ie. 7 shares at a time) manipulate the price when trading has already done 1.3 million in volume (just today)?  

It's probably an accumulation bot.


----------



## hotchy (12 December 2012)

Ves said:


> How can very small trades (ie. 7 shares at a time) manipulate the price when trading has already done 1.3 million in volume (just today)?
> 
> It's probably an accumulation bot.




Cheers. Quick Google search answered the rest of my questions.
http://microtrader.com.au/post/3118882335/trading-bots


----------



## Julia (12 December 2012)

Trembling Hand said:


> Utter rubbish!



TH, not everyone has your experience.  If you're going to tell someone they're talking utter rubbish, fair enough, but maybe consider following that criticism with an explanation of why it's rubbish.


----------



## Trembling Hand (12 December 2012)

Julia said:


> TH, not everyone has your experience.  If you're going to tell someone they're talking utter rubbish, fair enough, but maybe consider following that criticism with an explanation of why it's rubbish.




I would no soon waste my time explaining to someone why putting your hand in a bucket of water makes your hand wet. Really you don't need any experience to know a $17 trade is irrelevant, just a smidgen of common sense would help.


----------



## NewbAndy (19 December 2012)

FIGJAM said:


> here is quit possibly the dumbest question of all but I am going to ask it anyway.
> 
> What are the pros and cons to trading in the Dow or S&P 500 oposed to the ASX?
> 
> ...




Hi Figjam,

I've been looking into this too. From what I've read a lot of it comes down to the current underperformance of the Aussie market relative to the US. For example, many analysis will say that the overall feeling in Aus is extremely negative while in the US it's far more positive, this could lead to greater upwards sp movement than we've seen in australia. 

With covered calls, Aus calls are now 100 shares too- changed relatively recently I believe. 

I'm sure others will be able to give you a better (worded) explanation about why investing in the US can help you over the long run.

/A


----------



## joehann (18 January 2013)

*Questions from a beginner*

Hi,
I am new to this forum and stock trading, and I am wondering if it is for me or not. I was hoping I could get some input from people who trade about the following.


I would like to know how stock trading effects your life?

How much time per day/week/month do you spend doing it?

Is it something that you do by yourself or is there a partnership or team of people you invest with?


How has the money changed your life? Do you make what you expect to make, is it consistant (over the month, quarter, year)


What tools do you need to trade stocks? Just an online broker and a subscription to the financial review, or is it more than that?

What is the biggest issue that you come up against being a trader?

And in your opinion what makes a successful trader, someone who makes money, as opposed to someone who loses.

Do you have a system? i.e. do you look for stocks in a particular position and invest a certain way

And i'd like to know about how you get your information (no need to reveal sources), but i would like to know if your just reading the paper or your close to the coalface, or how in depth you go with the graphs to make your choices.

I would also like to know a little about how much to put on a stock? How do I decide whether to invest a little or a lot?


Thank you in advance.

Joehann.


----------



## WilkensOne (18 January 2013)

*Re: Questions from a beginner*

Hey Joehann,

Welcome to ASF, I am relatively new here as well!

Before you start asking too many questions that may have already been answered, have a read through the forums, beginner's lounge especially. 

Also check out this great thread by Sir O that is designed for the beginner, it is great: https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14370

Enjoy your stay!
Wilkens


----------



## burglar (18 January 2013)

*Re: Questions from a beginner*



joehann said:


> Hi,
> I am new to this forum and stock trading, and I am wondering if it is for me or not. I was hoping I could get some input from people who trade about the following ...




So many questions!

Let's start with a few.

I would like to know how stock trading effects your life?
As little or much as I want! Its my passion, my hobby, my pastime!

How much time per day/week/month do you spend doing it?
As little or much as I want! Most weekdays I spend an hour, it used to be more!
I doubt, I have done 3x 8 hour days since August 2008 (GFC)

Is it something that you do by yourself or is there a partnership or team of people you invest with?
I had a mentor "in the grey".

How has the money changed your life? Do you make what you expect to make, is it consistant (over the month, quarter, year)
I have lost $15K over 12 years. Boating would have cost me more!

What tools do you need to trade stocks? Just an online broker and a subscription to the financial review, or is it more than that?
You could start with that.
When you decide to trade (or invest) you will get a sense of what is required.

What is the biggest issue that you come up against being a trader?
Yourself!

And in your opinion what makes a successful trader, someone who makes money, as opposed to someone who loses.
Plenty of threads here on luck, investing, trading, gambling, ...

Do you have a system? i.e. do you look for stocks in a particular position and invest a certain way
Some have systematic trading system, it does everything for them.
I'm a gambler, there is no system in my madness.

And i'd like to know about how you get your information (no need to reveal sources), but i would like to know if your just reading the paper or your close to the coalface, or how in depth you go with the graphs to make your choices.
Same as you ... Newspaper, TV & Magazines!
Library, ASX Reports (especially Quarterly Reports).
And forums like ASF!

I would also like to know a little about how much to put on a stock? How do I decide whether to invest a little or a lot?
That depends. Learn a lot about yourself. Are you a trader or are you an investor?
Depends on your financial position and attitude to risk.
burglar


----------



## joehann (18 January 2013)

*Re: Questions from a beginner*

Thanks for indulging my curiosity and answering the questions burglar.

I once did up an old jeep, it cost me more than 15k 


I'd love to get a few more responses from anyone who can be as candid.


----------



## matty77 (18 January 2013)

*Re: Questions from a beginner*



joehann said:


> Hi,
> I am new to this forum and stock trading, and I am wondering if it is for me or not. I was hoping I could get some input from people who trade about the following.
> 
> 
> ...




answers above.


----------



## Pnut (20 January 2013)

*Re: Questions from a beginner*

1) Trading has improved my knowledge base and myself as a person. I take more time to consider everything I do. I make far better financial decisions now then what I did when I first started out working my first business.
2) I trade FX so I pretty much start Monday morning at 8am and finish Saturday morning 8am.
3) I try to get a group going when ever possible but in the trading world sometime its hard to keep your account above board when your brokerage goes into receivership.
4) The ATO really enjoy my winnings when ever they get the opportunity. However the last few years have seen some dramatic changes to the markets. It is not an easy fete to trade consistently. Even when your stock has everything going for it the price drops.
Why does the price fall. It could be any reason one of the big share holders could be getting liquidated. Mum and dad investors are selling out and paying down their debt. The list goes on and on.
5) You require knowledge, experience, enthusiasm, decisiveness, persistence and faith in yourself. If you wish to succeed prepare yourself to make your biggest money toward the end of your trading career not the beginning.
6) Your lack of knowledge, experience, enthusiasm, decisiveness, persistence and faith in yourself.
7) A successful trader would be a trader that trades consistently. My Aim is for 20 successful trades in a row. I believe I am getting close to that target.
To Clarify. 20 trades that have a good setup, my entry is good and clean, my targets and stops are realistic, my exit is to the plan. Regardless of if it wins or loses.
8) I use Ninja Trader it gives me the ability to design and construct various trade systems. I can ask the market how the winners win and I can be ready to trade with them when the opportunity next arises.
9) I just use charts as it is the flow of money over time.
10) As little as possible until you get experience and knowledge you are currently a walking bomb not an educated heat seeking missal. My opinion is you should look into FX the costs are cheap and you will be gaining experience & knowledge by making 3 or 4 trading decisions per day. Not 3 or 4 a month or year.
Hope this helps.
Pnut


----------



## joehann (20 January 2013)

*Re: Questions from a beginner*

Thanks Pnut and Matty77 for your insights.

They are helping me understand what it is to be a trader.

Everything else i've read is about the market, but i want to know about the people in the market.


----------



## YMI (25 January 2013)

A question regarding Funds.

Hi, I am looking for an investment product for a beginner, one that doesn’t require me to watch the stock market all day. I came across funds and I understand that their disadvantage is the higher fees and that is where it gets cloudy, how/where do I find the actual fees?

I am interested in funds that can be traded like common stocks, I think they are called ETF’s. When I request a quote, there is a difference between Ask and Bid – some have 5ct difference, some 30ct and maybe even more. Is that the fees (diff. between Ask and Bid) or are there additional fees on top of that?

*I try to find the pros and cons.* Perhaps somebody wants to tell me their opinion. I’d love to invest in company shares later but I thought it could be better to start with funds

One dumb thing that I admit, first I thought I could invest for example in the S&P/ASX 200 directly, like 3 shares at 4800ea


----------



## WilkensOne (25 January 2013)

YMI said:


> A question regarding Funds.
> 
> Hi, I am looking for an investment product for a beginner, one that doesn’t require me to watch the stock market all day. I came across funds and I understand that their disadvantage is the higher fees and that is where it gets cloudy, how/where do I find the actual fees?
> 
> ...




Hey YMI,

An example with be an investment company such as AFI or ARG who trade on the ASX, their companies invest in other companies allowing you to essentially invest in many companies at once with the knowledge they will manage it. I personally invest in AFI as they have low fees and reflect the ASX market quite well so that gives me some good exposure to the market without constantly watching everything.

Someone correct me if I am wrong but ask is the price a seller is selling at while bid is the price buyers are buying at?

Just remember we can't give you specific advice but if you are looking at an LIC you want consistent returns over longterm and low management fees.

Good luck!
Wilkens


----------



## YMI (25 January 2013)

Thanks for your answer Wilkens. I am aware of what Ask and Bid means, I just wanted to know if the difference between the two is the extra fees for the fund because if you look at company shares, you’ll find a diff. of perhaps 1ct between Ask and Bid and funds, as I said 5 to 30ct and more...


----------



## WilkensOne (25 January 2013)

YMI said:


> Thanks for your answer Wilkens. I am aware of what Ask and Bid means, I just wanted to know if the difference between the two is the extra fees for the fund because if you look at company shares, you’ll find a diff. of perhaps 1ct between Ask and Bid and funds, as I said 5 to 30ct and more...




Sorry YMI, must have misunderstood, I am not really sure what you are asking then. Maybe it is over my head


----------



## YMI (25 January 2013)

WilkensOne said:


> Sorry YMI, must have misunderstood, I am not really sure what you are asking then. Maybe it is over my head



Funds are managed by somebody and they want to earn money for doing that. The question is, do they earn just the difference between ask and bid or could there be additional entry and exit fees or annual fees perhaps? 

If you invest in AFI, there is just 1ct diff. between ask and bid, if that is an investment company, how do they earn money? That I don’t understand.


----------



## WilkensOne (25 January 2013)

YMI said:


> Funds are managed by somebody and they want to earn money for doing that. The question is, do they earn just the difference between ask and bid or could there be additional entry and exit fees or annual fees perhaps?
> 
> If you invest in AFI, there is just 1ct diff. between ask and bid, if that is an investment company, how do they earn money? That I don’t understand.




Oh okay got you.

Companies such as AFI from what I know take their profits and expenses from the trades they make as a company. Probably a % of any profits plus some flat fees maybe. The ask and bid is not linked to the money the LIC receives. So when they generate an annual report for example it should show the profit they made less any fees and performance fees AFI charge then you would see the net profit they generated.

Just to be clear.. you do not receive a cheque or anything from LIC's when they make profits as you would with a managed fund. The income you receive is like any other share, dividends and capital growth.


----------



## Bill M (25 January 2013)

YMI said:


> A question regarding Funds.
> 
> Hi, I am looking for an investment product for a beginner, one that doesn’t require me to watch the stock market all day. I came across funds and I understand that their disadvantage is the higher fees and that is where it gets cloudy, how/where do I find the actual fees?
> 
> ...




Hello YMI, there are LIC's and ETF's that run funds that are listed. The LIC's tend to pick the companies they think suit their investment strategies. ETF's on the other hand tend to buy the market as a whole.

LIC's trade as normal stocks on the market. The way the LIC's "make money" is the through the MER (management expense ratio). It, in my view isn't that large considering they do all that work for you. The only negatives I can see with them is that they pick what they deem as appropriate whether you like it or not.

ETF's on the other hand are a bit different. For example an ASX 200 fund will cover the top 200 companies regardless of whether they are any good or not. If they're in the top 200 they get in the fund. Some ETF's are also sector specific. For example SYI targets only high dividend yield stocks. That can be both positive and negative. On one hand you get the dividends but companies like BHP don't get in because their dividend isn't high enough. They make money the same way as LIC's through their MER's. I invest in SYI and from memory I think the MER is .35%.

Then there are the market makers. ETF's sometimes employ market makers (usually a bank) to simply make a market for you and I as punters to buy and sell the ETF. For example (no real names used) Super Doopers ASX 200 ETF will employ ABC Bank as the market makers. This bank will have those buy and spread orders you see on the screen that you mentioned. If they did not have these market makers then there might not be stocks available to buy or sell. The market makers make their money through these spreads you mentioned.

You might think, who are these greedy market makers? That is not the case, they need to be there so you can buy and sell when you want. To be honest, I wouldn't invest in an ETF if they didn't have one. The main reason for market makers is that sometimes there are no buyers or sellers and if people can't buy or sell the stock then they probably wouldn't invest in them in the first place.

I hope that helps.


----------



## YMI (26 January 2013)

Bill M said:


> ...They make money the same way as LIC's through their MER's. ... I think the MER is .35%.



Thanks Bill, that explains it pretty well.
So if the MER is .35%p.a. they subtract that from the performance. In other words if the ASX200 rose 12% in the past year, an ASX fund, that follows the ASX200 exactly, would have risen 12-0.35=11.65% Is that correct?

And how do they subtract that amount? Is that once or a few times a year on special dates like a dividend just that they pay that to themselves and not to the investors?

I assume the MER doesn’t stay the same for ever but is calculated every year or so and also, different funds may have different expenses and therefore higher or lower MER’s. Where do I find these numbers?




Bill M said:


> You might think, who are these greedy market makers? That is not the case, they need to be there so you can buy and sell when you want. To be honest, I wouldn't invest in an ETF if they didn't have one. The main reason for market makers is that sometimes there are no buyers or sellers and if people can't buy or sell the stock then they probably wouldn't invest in them in the first place.
> 
> I hope that helps.



I understand the importance of liquidity, just one thing that pops up in my mind; it may apply to regular stocks only but in the extended trading hours, there are no market makers as far as I know but I don’t think that makes trading any cheaper in this time.

Thanks again!


----------



## Bill M (26 January 2013)

YMI said:


> Thanks Bill, that explains it pretty well.
> So if the MER is .35%p.a. they subtract that from the performance. In other words if the ASX200 rose 12% in the past year, an ASX fund, that follows the ASX200 exactly, would have risen 12-0.35=11.65% Is that correct?




It would be pretty close to that figure, yes. Generally in their reports they will quote something like ASX 200 6% gain, ABC ASX 200 fund return 5.65%, give or take a few minor points.



> And how do they subtract that amount? Is that once or a few times a year on special dates like a dividend just that they pay that to themselves and not to the investors?




You don't even notice it happening. The quoted distributions that they announce are usually after the fees have been taken out. I don't know exactly when they are taken out but rest assured they are. For example they don't say that they will deduct the .35% on a certain date, it doesn't work like that. The only thing you need to know is, what is the mer, what is your entry price and what is your exit price. Add a bit of brokerage and that's it, those are your costs.



> I assume the MER doesn’t stay the same for ever but is calculated every year or so and also, different funds may have different expenses and therefore higher or lower MER’s. Where do I find these numbers?




Now a days there is big competition and funds are getting cheaper. Some funds have come down in price over the last couple of years. The MER's are always mentioned on Fund Managers website, here is that fund I mentioned. The MER is clearly listed. LINK HERE: http://www.spdr.com.au/etf/fund/fund_detail_SYI.html



> I understand the importance of liquidity, just one thing that pops up in my mind; it may apply to regular stocks only but in the extended trading hours, there are no market makers as far as I know but I don’t think that makes trading any cheaper in this time.




Not sure what you mean here, I only buy and sell during the market hours of 10AM to 4PM. I have no interest in any other times, cheers.


----------



## Bill M (26 January 2013)

> It would be pretty close to that figure, yes. Generally in their reports they will quote something like ASX 200 6% gain, ABC ASX 200 fund return 5.65%, give or take a few minor points.




I thought about this a bit more after I posted it and I realise that I wasn't quite correct. If the fund charges a .35% MER then it isn't a simple percentage difference. Here is an actual difference in the following table, you will see that those fees they charge even though they are .35% only slightly effect the end performance of the fund. I hope that clears it up a bit better.

Same link as before: http://www.spdr.com.au/etf/fund/fund_detail_SYI.html


----------



## theinvestorguru (27 January 2013)

Hi all, I m posting new question about software g

I called Asx to ask about good software Abd broker they gave me commsec and etrade contacts
In the forum( that I m reading in last month or so) they reccomend interactive broker as better platform and cheap brokage cost.

My main q : can I open account with IB and trade asx in Australia( as IB is USA base software)
2 question: is IB good software  to  trade options and shares ( ang guys I m beginner )

Thanks for help


----------



## tech/a (27 January 2013)

theinvestorguru said:


> Hi all, I m posting new question about software g
> 
> I called Asx to ask about good software Abd broker they gave me commsec and etrade contacts
> In the forum( that I m reading in last month or so) they reccomend interactive broker as better platform and cheap brokage cost.
> ...




Yes to both.
I don't use the IB charting package but
Believe ok for a beginner.
I couple Tradeguider R/T with it but
There are many options.

IB is a challenge opening an account but 
Well worth it.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (27 January 2013)

Bill M said:


> I thought about this a bit more after I posted it and I realise that I wasn't quite correct. If the fund charges a .35% MER then it isn't a simple percentage difference. Here is an actual difference in the following table, you will see that those fees they charge even though they are .35% only slightly effect the end performance of the fund. I hope that clears it up a bit better.
> 
> Same link as before: http://www.spdr.com.au/etf/fund/fund_detail_SYI.html




With respect Bill M,

The table you post only compares a fixed date to the past.

When I visited one of the Apres-Storm Financial Adviser offices in Townsville to requisition a new gold tap from the dunny, the principal was absent from his room for a few moments.

I managed to requisition a recent book written by Nick Radge, from the financial adviser's voluminous library which, in detail, explains the fallacy of your table.

I'm not that smart that I can argue it.

Basically you need to compare your point of entry to performance.

You only quote end of year.

The results of Sept to Sept going back would be interesting, as would Nov to Nov.

gg


----------



## Bill M (27 January 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> The table you post only compares a fixed date to the past.
> 
> Basically you need to compare your point of entry to performance.
> 
> ...




I was only posting the tables to show the outcomes after the MER fees were charged, that way YMI could see that the fees charged didn't really affect the outcome so much.

As for entry and exit dates, that's another story. Fair to say about any fund, buying at the wrong time could show S&P ASX 200 -40% and ABC ASX 200 Fund -41%. Probably something a new player should be well aware off, markets don't always go up, cheers.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (27 January 2013)

Bill M said:


> I was only posting the tables to show the outcomes after the MER fees were charged, that way YMI could see that the fees charged didn't really affect the outcome so much.
> 
> As for entry and exit dates, that's another story. Fair to say about any fund, buying at the wrong time could show S&P ASX 200 -40% and ABC ASX 200 Fund -41%. Probably something a new player should be well aware off, markets don't always go up, cheers.




Thanks Bill for posting the tables.

gg


----------



## theinvestorguru (27 January 2013)

tech/a said:


> Yes to both.
> I don't use the IB charting package but
> Believe ok for a beginner.
> I couple Tradeguider R/T with it but
> ...




Thanks tech


----------



## theinvestorguru (27 January 2013)

Hi all,

Part of my studying stocks, I came cross either full service advisor( with more cost) or cheap online/ phone brokers.
As bigenner I think I will need bit mentorship and adv to start with. 
I m wondering what is your opinion about that ? Do u think it is waists of money and keep studying and applying it to real world.
Do u recommend any company course or broker , I m after your general adv and experience , I m based in Geelong/ Melbourne but happy to travel to Sydney or other main city for good full service brokers 

Thanks


----------



## YMI (27 January 2013)

Bill M said:


> I thought about this a bit more after I posted it and I realise that I wasn't quite correct. If the fund charges a .35% MER then it isn't a simple percentage difference. Here is an actual difference in the following table, you will see that those fees they charge even though they are .35% only slightly effect the end performance of the fund. I hope that clears it up a bit better.
> 
> Same link as before: http://www.spdr.com.au/etf/fund/fund_detail_SYI.html




Fantastic, that’s the info I was looking for

On this site it says the performance is calculated before fund management fees and expenses. In other words the .35% MER will weaken the gain even further.

Sorry for rising the extended trading hours topic. I don’t think Australia has that. At some point I was looking at US equities but I don’t think there are any major advantages compared to OZ and I don’t like their trading hours. They can also trade before and after trading hours but as I understand without market makers. So basically if I want to buy shares during that time, I need somebody else who is willing to sell at the same time.


----------



## YMI (27 January 2013)

theinvestorguru said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Part of my studying stocks, I came cross either full service advisor( with more cost) or cheap online/ phone brokers.
> As bigenner I think I will need bit mentorship and adv to start with.
> ...



Eight years ago or so I was asking my bank and an independent agent for investment advice. Both sold me products that return less profit than a standard savings bank account and I can’t get out of that before I’m 45. The only different to the independent agent, banks tend to recommend their own products in my opinion. 
I will never ask these guys again, rather spend an hour each day teaching and informing myself.

To get to your question, I would choose the cheap online broker despite I’m a beginner as well but am not sure what is best for you.
Good luck!


----------



## tech/a (27 January 2013)

YMI said:


> Eight years ago or so I was asking my bank and an independent agent for investment advice. Both sold me products that return less profit than a standard savings bank account and I can’t get out of that before I’m 45. The only different to the independent agent, banks tend to recommend their own products in my opinion.
> I will never ask these guys again, rather spend an hour each day teaching and informing myself.
> 
> To get to your question, I would choose the cheap online broker despite I’m a beginner as well but am not sure what is best for you.
> Good luck!




In total agreence


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (27 January 2013)

YMI said:


> Eight years ago or so I was asking my bank and an independent agent for investment advice. Both sold me products that return less profit than a standard savings bank account and I can’t get out of that before I’m 45. The only different to the independent agent, banks tend to recommend their own products in my opinion.
> I will never ask these guys again, rather spend an hour each day teaching and informing myself.
> 
> To get to your question, I would choose the cheap online broker despite I’m a beginner as well but am not sure what is best for you.
> Good luck!




+1

gg


----------



## Sir Osisofliver (30 January 2013)

YMI said:


> Fantastic, that’s the info I was looking for
> 
> On this site it says the performance is calculated before fund management fees *and expenses. *In other words the .35% MER will weaken the gain even further.




My bolds.

This is something you'll find across all funds. They charge their expenses out of the fund performance, not within the ME as is a common misconception. $35m advertising campaign.... High rise address... Long boozy lunches with clients.... All of that comes out of your performance.

Oh and if the fund goes backwards... It comes out of your contributions.

Cheers

Sir O


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## YMI (30 January 2013)

Sir Osisofliver said:


> This is something you'll find across all funds. They charge their expenses out of the fund performance, not within the ME as is a common misconception. $35m advertising campaign.... High rise address... Long boozy lunches with clients.... All of that comes out of your performance.
> 
> Oh and if the fund goes backwards... It comes out of your contributions.
> 
> ...



Hi Sir O, thanks for your thoughts on the topic.

You’re so right, I compared the performance of the shares with their stated performance minus MER and there was still something missing – oh, is that a new Aston Martin in the manager’s garage

I try to imagine what you actually thought when you wrote that “OMG who on earth would waste their money in funds!” :freak3: 
Well, I’m not a risk taker and despite of that I lost a lot of money, or better said I didn’t gain any although I owned a house for many years and one would expect property prices to always go up. Interested in anything that gains more profit than my bank account (3%) I was watching the stock market and a few days ago: ‘Apple reports record sales for the fourth quarter’. And I thought: ’lucky people who own some of those shares now’. But the value dropped by 10% - reverse logic!

What I’m trying to say is, I need more experience and in the meantime I think a fund will earn greater returns than my bank account and still be somewhat predictable.

Thanks again


----------



## bailx (6 February 2013)

*Re: Questions from a beginner*

SORRY BUT OPEN YOU EYES!@:confused::


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## YMI (15 February 2013)

What is the best strategy to sell shares on ex dividend day?

EXAMPLE: I expect the stock price to drop by $1 (amount of dividend). I want to sell as early as possible but if the price drops by more than $0.80 and I haven’t been able to sell, then I’d rather keep the shares.
The broker told me to simply place a limit order but I am worried this will result in the low limit price because many shareholders will try to sell at the same time...

And does it make a difference if I place the order as early as possible before trading hours?


----------



## skyQuake (15 February 2013)

YMI said:


> What is the best strategy to sell shares on ex dividend day?
> 
> EXAMPLE: I expect the stock price to drop by $1 (amount of dividend). I want to sell as early as possible but if the price drops by more than $0.80 and I haven’t been able to sell, then I’d rather keep the shares.
> The broker told me to simply place a limit order but I am worried this will result in the low limit price because many shareholders will try to sell at the same time...
> ...




Wouldn't make a difference. The stock will "gap" down on ex div date usually by the full div amount.
ASX is price then time priority. So again, it wouldnt make a difference when you put in your order.


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## pixel (16 February 2013)

YMI said:


> What is the best strategy to sell shares on ex dividend day?
> 
> EXAMPLE: I expect the stock price to drop by $1 (amount of dividend). I want to sell as early as possible but if the price drops by more than $0.80 and I haven’t been able to sell, then I’d rather keep the shares.
> The broker told me to simply place a limit order but I am worried this will result in the low limit price because many shareholders will try to sell at the same time...
> ...




for information about orders entered *BEFORE *the market opens, see this thread:
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11619


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## YMI (16 February 2013)

skyQuake said:


> Wouldn't make a difference. The stock will "gap" down on ex div date usually by the full div amount.
> ASX is price then time priority. So again, it wouldnt make a difference when you put in your order.






pixel said:


> for information about orders entered *BEFORE *the market opens, see this thread:
> https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11619



Thanks for the great answers Sky and Pixel!

Wow is that hard to understand and I have to admit that I will need to read that a second time – and still probably don’t understand 100%.

I believe the opening/closing price is a kind of average of outstanding orders (for example my sell-at-limit order if I place that before the market opens). But only if there is an overlap in sell and buy demand.
In the case of ex dividend however, there will be very little demand for buying shares above the current price minus dividend. After all, the dividend just reduced the value of the company by exactly this amount. 

So, as I understand, that will cause the “gap” down because there is simply nobody who wants to buy any shares more expensive.

This raises another question:
*What is all the fuss about dividends?*
Theoretically, wouldn’t the result be (almost) exactly the same if I sell on ex dividend day or on the day before?


----------



## cbc1 (16 February 2013)

In general you don't pay tax on dividends. Pends on the type


----------



## burglar (16 February 2013)

YMI said:


> *What is all the fuss about dividends?*




You appear to be looking for easy money.
No such thing, I'm afraid to say.

Getting back to dividends.
You collect them once or twice yearly, 
in cash or in reinvestment (DRP).
This allows you to profit without need to sell your shares. 
No Capital Gains Tax (CGT).

If you take cash, it's just income. 
If you reinvest then you will discover compounding!
It is the strongest force in the cosmos.

From Sir O's thread:
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14370&p=396949&viewfull=1#post396949

Read about compounding:
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/compounding.asp#axzz2L3UeBBvR

Compounding will make you rich slowly.


----------



## pixel (17 February 2013)

YMI said:


> Thanks for the great answers Sky and Pixel!
> This raises another question:
> *What is all the fuss about dividends?*
> Theoretically, wouldn’t the result be (almost) exactly the same if I sell on ex dividend day or on the day before?






cbc1 said:


> In general you don't pay tax on dividends. Pends on the type




Let me start my answer with another quote:
*"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is."*

Sure, on ex-div day, you will often find the share price drop by the dividend amount; sometimes a little less, sometimes even more. Influencing factors include, but are not limited to -

How sharply has the share price risen during the last few days in anticipation?
How does the size of the dividend relate to the average daily/ weekly volatility?
Is the share generally in a rising or falling trend?
As an example, let's assume the share is in an uptrend with a daily trading range of 3%. In figures, that would mean it's trading between 99c and $1.02, or $5 and $5.15 - something not hard to find shares that do so. Now assume that the current dividend, including any franking credits, is 2% (2c for the $1 share, 10c for the $5 one). In that case, I would rather expect the dividend effect to create only a little blip on the chart, potentially dropping in the order of the dividend, but recovering within a few days to couple of weeks. If I were to hold that stock as a dividend-paying investment, I'd stay put and wait for the next dividend to add to my profit.

In contrast, take a share that has been in decline for weeks and will be paying a 1% dividend. Its daily trading range is around 3c, and a few days before ex-div it has held just above $1. You can bet that it will continue to drop after the ex-div date. For evidence, check the chart of NST. Can you find the date that 1c dividend has been announced?


----------



## YMI (17 February 2013)

cbc1 said:


> In general you don't pay tax on dividends. Pends on the type



I guess that’s a point, tax can make a small difference, thanks.




burglar said:


> You appear to be looking for easy money.
> No such thing, I'm afraid to say.



Priority is actually not to be fooled too often by banks and other companies – it still happens quite regularly unfortunately. Easy money if possible, yes but it doesn't even come second.


> Getting back to dividends.
> You collect them once or twice yearly,
> in cash or in reinvestment (DRP).
> This allows you to profit without need to sell your shares.
> ...




So the only advantage of dividends is no or less tax, right? Apart from that the outcome of a stock that pays no dividend and a stock that pays dividend and I reinvest would be the same, of course in theory only. Is that correct?


----------



## YMI (17 February 2013)

pixel said:


> Let me start my answer with another quote:
> *"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is."*
> 
> Sure, on ex-div day, you will often find the share price drop by the dividend amount; sometimes a little less, sometimes even more. Influencing factors include, but are not limited to -
> ...



Yeah, that’s why I used the word theory, I know practice is all that matters but I’m trying to understand the theory first. Thanks for the tip, I will compare that with different charts and see if you’re right

Back to your question “Can you find the date that 1c dividend has been announced?” I can’t actually but 1% isn’t a huge amount, many companies pay between 2% and 3%.

Tanks!


----------



## burglar (17 February 2013)

YMI said:


> ... So the only advantage of dividends is no or less tax, right? Apart from that the outcome of a stock that pays no dividend and a stock that pays dividend and I reinvest would be the same, of course in theory only. Is that correct?



Yes!
In theory the company with no dividend should be growing (in value). 
And the share price, in theory, should be growing too.


----------



## uzzzzy (25 February 2013)

*Really beginner question*

Hi everyone,

Can you help me? I have a really beginner question.
Is there any way to buy stocks directly from the company that I want to invest into? Or it is needed to have a broker in order to purchase them?

Thank you very much,


----------



## McLovin (25 February 2013)

*Re: Really beginner question*



uzzzzy said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Can you help me? I have a really beginner question.
> Is there any way to buy stocks directly from the company that I want to invest into? Or it is needed to have a broker in order to purchase them?
> ...




Only during the IPO, dividend reinvestment, cap raisings etc. Remember when you buy shares in the market you are not buying them from the company you are buying them from someone else.


----------



## JoshuaJ (1 March 2013)

*New To Trading  Question for the knowledgeable*

Hey guys.


So I go to uni and study corporate finance and international relations.

I understand the basics of stocks (also read ASX tutorials), but I want to ask some questions please, and hope you will respond.

Question 1)  firstly Stock trading ordinary shares,  I just don't understand when one buys shares ( say online westpac investment) can you hold on the shares for as long as you want. Or do you have to rapid buy and sell constantly.

I understand Bluechip is a long term investment, but just buying ordinary stocks on the ASX I don't understand.

I know for example if there is a boom then you can sell, but if there is a economic downturn you can buy cheap bonds etc.

So where and how can I learn this whole process. I have westpac investing, but its confusing, and provides no tutorials.

Thanks Guys


----------



## brty (1 March 2013)

*Re: New To Trading  Question for the knowledgeable*

Welcome Joshua,

Firstly there is an enormous amount of learning ahead for yourself, where you stated you understand, by your own comment you clearly dont.

All stocks that you purchase on the ASX can be kept as long as you want. "Bluechip" stocks are just shares that people attribute the concept of 'bluechip' to. It is meant to mean large, safe, long term dividend, reliable etc. Some just use the ASX50 or ASX20 as there definition of bluechip. Personally I find the concept of bluechip worthless, as there are many supposedly bluechip stocks that have gone bust over the years.

You need to read and read to gain your education in the world of stockmarket investments. Go to the ASX website and poke around there a little bit to start your education... Here is a good place to start....

http://www.asx.com.au/resources/shares-education.htm


----------



## theinvestorguru (1 March 2013)

*Re: New To Trading  Question for the knowledgeable*



brty said:


> Welcome Joshua,
> 
> Firstly there is an enormous amount of learning ahead for yourself, where you stated you understand, by your own comment you clearly dont.
> 
> ...




Hi josh

I m newbie as well , I just started the path of education in stocks 2 months ago, I m professional in medical field which is really different worl than stocks.

My adv that u can start the game at asx now, I do it . It is great learning curve.
Part of education, my adv get some quality books and read them, use this forum .  It is awesome .
The book that found invaluable is
1 how I made 2000000 in stock market( you can buy kindle version for 1 dollar from amazon,I googled it and got free ebook copy, it is old but really good.

2.the layman's guide to trading stock for DAve LAundry
3. Stan Weinsteins secrets for profiting in bear and bull market
Both 2-3 on technical analysis, good to start trading that works

Google warren BUffit for fundamental analysis

Lastly, keep update yourself using this forum and others, and keep learning, and teach others, have fun mate and good luck

 It may take years to master this field.


----------



## Sergio (5 March 2013)

Hi everyone,

i am another beginner to ASF..

i was join almost a year ago and now try to give more effort on the market...

however, i got 2 questions..

1. i just realise i got dividend from GMG few days ago and i notice i pay tax of $165 out of $355worth of divident! then i realise there is NO tfn attach on computershare for my account. i just add TFN details today.
can i get back some of those $165 on july (tax return)? i am obviously not on the highest bracket of tax..

2. i notice on some stage, buyer and seller place a same amount of money on different price level, this also happen on closing auction. any thought of why they do so?(pics attached)
	

		
			
		

		
	




thanks heaps

regards
sergio


----------



## burglar (5 March 2013)

Sergio said:


> ...
> 1.  ... can i get back some of those $165 on july (tax return)?
> 2. i notice on some stage, buyer and seller place a same amount of money on different price level, this also happen on closing auction. any thought of why they do so? ...




1. The Tax man will not rob you!

2. Anyone can be any of those buyers or anyone can be any of those sellers.
Chances are that the bids are from one buyer who may also be that one seller.
Also, chances are that the buyer/seller is using robot trading!

Ask yourself the important question ... how does it affect you?


----------



## Trembling Hand (5 March 2013)

burglar said:


> Chances are that the bids are from one buyer who may also be that one seller.




You cannot cross trades with yourself.


----------



## burglar (5 March 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> You cannot cross trades with yourself.




Have I missed something? (The buys and sells don't overlap in the example given)


----------



## Trembling Hand (5 March 2013)

burglar said:


> Have I missed something? (The buys and sells don't overlap in the example given)




Oh sorry I should of look properly. I thought it was a Time & Sales screen. Carry on....


----------



## Sergio (5 March 2013)

thanks for those responses guys =]

from a newbie thought, it will not affecting me at all..
or maybe i missing something?
because they play quite a big amount of money there..around 300k, must not be a newbie like me, so i thought maybe there is some trick that i am missing..

regards

Sergio


----------



## Sergio (8 March 2013)

Good day everyone =]

i got another question about dividend.

yesterday i bought 8000 shares of SWM.

today is the ex div date. the dividend is 6c per share..

so, by the dividend pay, how much will i got? 6c X 8000 ?

is it gonna be subtracted by tax first before i receive it?

because on my last GMG case, i just receive $165 out of $355 worth of dividend (i forget to nominate my TFN)

thanks heaps guys =]

best regards
Sergio


----------



## Trentb (24 March 2013)

*Hi Newb Questions*

Hey Everyone.

I've been interested in investing my money better for a few years, but was never really been in the position where I had the money to take the risk until now. I've missed out on some great potential long-term deals in the share market because of that. Now i'm in the position where I can invest.

Can anyone recommend a good online broker that is reliable?

The huge benefit i've got at the moment is that i'm a student and have secure tax free scholarship income. So my income from shares would be tax free.

Are there any short term strategies that are easier to learn than others? 

cheers.


----------



## Sergio (25 March 2013)

Good Day,

i would like to ask about data source..

on comsec iress , i find out that there are 4 data sources
AUX, TM,  CXA and PM

and i notice that all of my parcel will go through TM only...(comsec and IB)
how do i participate in others?

moreover, there is no market depth on AUX on comsec iress..only TM and CXA..is that normal?

cheers
Sergio


----------



## skc (25 March 2013)

Sergio said:


> so, by the dividend pay, how much will i got? 6c X 8000 ?
> 
> is it gonna be subtracted by tax first before i receive it?




Yes. 6c x 8000. 

If you provided your TFN then no tax will be deducted / withheld.



Sergio said:


> Good Day,
> 
> i would like to ask about data source..
> 
> ...




Don't know but the only way to find out the correct answer is to ask Comsec. However I think it is quite usual for a retail trader to not have access to CXA (Chi-X).


----------



## Sergio (27 March 2013)

tha


----------



## Sergio (27 March 2013)

thanks for ur answers SKC..=]


cheers,
sergio


----------



## gez82 (3 April 2013)

Hey guys, just joined today after being an infrequent voyeur of sorts.  I have had a waxing and waning interest in investing for about the last 4 years. Never owned shares, but have played around with my super fund, putting my super into different kinds of funds just to see if I can beat the returns I had previously been getting.

Anyway... I'm putting away money from each pay cheque to start my portfolio at some stage this year, just a matter of timing, and will probably have to engage in some dollar costs averaging. In terms of strategy, I would like to consider myself as a value investor (have read Graham and Greenwald et. al.). We shall see how I go once I enter the heat of the market.

My initial question is about watch lists - I have about 20 stocks on my watch list but I wonder if this is too much? I will probably only be able to afford substantial holding of 1-2 stocks before the year is out (got a mortgage to service as well, unfortunately). Am I just wasting my time watching so many stocks, some of which I really have no intention of purchasing in the next 12 months.


----------



## RNI (10 May 2013)

Hi all

I have been investing in shares for several years but I really do not understand a lot of the 'details of investing'.

For example, I have only in recent years learned there is FA (fundamental analysis) and TA (Techinal analysis) but I do not understand anything much about TA at all except it seems to be about understanding charts for example. FA I understand to be the type of analysis you would do when researching a company by looking at the financial details, type of industry/product usefulness and where it is and the risks, managements experience etc. 

Listening to this thread I have found out about books to read to learn more about TA, so that is good, but there is still much I don't understand for example re shorting stocks. I understand they sell the stock high and re buy it at a lower price, but where do they get the stock from in the first place to sell??

Then there are CROSS TRADES. I understand cross trades are when a broker matches a sell order with a buy order with the same broker. That part I understand, but with one stock I own it has been 'controlled' within a certain range for nearly 12 months and not let run it's normal way. Posters on the share forum for this stock, seem to have worked out it is being controlled for the purpose 'washing back and forth-buying and selling' by the fund managers who hold a lot of shares and are 'making money from this' by selling and buying other peoples shares, hence why it is held in this bracket of mostly 63c - 72c range. How  can they determine this?? They say the fund managers, would be buying off the shorters ( but if the shorters sell high, why would the big boys buy at the top range?) I don't understand it really and that they are using  others shares to trade with.

Next question: Would they sell to each other as ppl are suggesting (somehow)?? and would those sells to each other, if it is occurring be labelled CROSS TRADES as this stock there are dozens of cross trades.

Next question: with the 'BOTS' trading. Is this to control the share price to be able to accumulate more shares and how do 'BOTS' work??

Sorry lots of questions on different subjects, but I just want to understand all these subjects.


----------



## cbc (10 May 2013)

They usually get the stock from brokers for shorting.  Youl need a shorting enabled broker.  They "rent" the stock to you.  They might not be the brokers stock though.  Other people may put their stock "up for rent" via the broker.  The broker brings the parties going short and long  together... and well.... from there.... its game on.

They think that the stock is going to go up so they "rent" it to you.  If it goes up they keep the amount it goes up and they also collect the "rent" from u.

Mbey look at a derivative instead if you want to profit from the price going down?  Options / Futures / CFDs(spit) / warrants(invest for your great grandchildren)


----------



## Trembling Hand (11 May 2013)

RNI said:


> Then there are CROSS TRADES. I understand cross trades are when a broker matches a sell order with a buy order with the same broker. That part I understand, but with one stock I own it has been 'controlled' within a certain range for nearly 12 months and not let run it's normal way. Posters on the share forum for this stock, seem to have worked out it is being controlled for the purpose 'washing back and forth-buying and selling' by the fund managers who hold a lot of shares and are 'making money from this' by selling and buying other peoples shares, hence why it is held in this bracket of mostly 63c - 72c range. How  can they determine this??



They cannot!



RNI said:


> They say the fund managers, would be buying off the shorters ( but if the shorters sell high, why would the big boys buy at the top range?) I don't understand it really and that they are using  others shares to trade with.



Well that just shows how silly this notion is that a range bound stock is being manipulated by some all knowing and powerful controlling fund manager. It's utter BS. If the game was that easy for them  to move many many millions their performance figures would be way higher than they are. Bottom line is its a rough and tough game. Everyone is trying to make money from the other persons mistakes. And the fundies are the one who have the toughest time as they cannot just enter and exit in an instant. They also cannot just will a stock to do as they want it to do. For every 1 fundie or hedge fund who wants to push it one way there are plenty of others who want to push it the other way.



RNI said:


> Next question: Would they sell to each other as ppl are suggesting (somehow)?? and would those sells to each other, if it is occurring be labelled CROSS TRADES as this stock there are dozens of cross trades.



 Maybe as a way to do large trades but not as some secret to manipulatable the small punter. There are a few Dark Pool markets where its possible to swap shares in large volumes without putting quotes into the ASX but they have nothing to do with what you are talking about. They are just ways of doing large business.




RNI said:


> Next question: with the 'BOTS' trading. Is this to control the share price to be able to accumulate more shares and how do 'BOTS' work??




They just break up large orders into lots of small orders. And do it efficiently without having to pay a person to sit at a trading terminal and hit the buy or sell button hundreds of times in a day.


----------



## WilkensOne (11 May 2013)

Hey folks, hope you are enjoying the weekend the weather in Perth is beautiful!

I was hoping someone could answer my.. I think basic question. I am creating a excel document to track my small portfolio and was wondering how I record shares acquired from the DRP. Should I record the buy price as $0 as I didn't actually pay for it, or the price which the share was issued to me, eg. $5.45?

Thanks all.


----------



## McLovin (11 May 2013)

WilkensOne said:


> Hey folks, hope you are enjoying the weekend the weather in Perth is beautiful!
> 
> I was hoping someone could answer my.. I think basic question. I am creating a excel document to track my small portfolio and was wondering how I record shares acquired from the DRP. Should I record the buy price as $0 as I didn't actually pay for it, or the price which the share was issued to me, eg. $5.45?
> 
> Thanks all.




Of course you paid for it!

Your dividend was used to buy shares at $5.45, so you record the cost base as $5.45.


----------



## WilkensOne (11 May 2013)

McLovin said:


> Of course you paid for it!
> 
> Your dividend was used to buy shares at $5.45, so you record the cost base as $5.45.




Great that is what I was thinking, thank you!


----------



## ROE (11 May 2013)

WilkensOne said:


> Hey folks, hope you are enjoying the weekend the weather in Perth is beautiful!
> 
> I was hoping someone could answer my.. I think basic question. I am creating a excel document to track my small portfolio and was wondering how I record shares acquired from the DRP. Should I record the buy price as $0 as I didn't actually pay for it, or the price which the share was issued to me, eg. $5.45?
> 
> Thanks all.




If you intend to invest in the market for a long time ..I recommend get this piece of software
http://www.topshare.com.au/

it keep track of everything and you can go back in time and work out, what, where, when and when it comes to tax time it takes you 5 minutes for do....hit the tax report button...

excel is good but if you have to go back 5 years and said what you paid for what at what price and when you got dividend and how much and cross check back to the time you sell now, it can be a pain unless you write some macro for it... for $250 and it's a one time purchase and it will save you a lot of time....

it also do capital gain minimisation for you, when you sell shares, and you have multiple parcels...tell it
to minimise  your capital gain and it automatically work out the perfect combo to minimise your gain, excel could be a bit of work...


----------



## TikoMike (11 May 2013)

ROE said:


> If you intend to invest in the market for a long time ..I recommend get this piece of software
> http://www.topshare.com.au/
> 
> it keep track of everything and you can go back in time and work out, what, where, when and when it comes to tax time it takes you 5 minutes for do....hit the tax report button...
> ...




$250 and tax deductible too. Pretty sure that would come in handy with all the capital gains you probably make that may put you in the high marginal rate . akin to as if you're getting it for half price in order to save on time.


----------



## TheUnknown (12 May 2013)

*stockmarket questions...*

Hi people

I hope some of you people can help me as i want to start investing in shares looking for short term trades picking lows and sell at higher price, i have around 100k to invest if someone could answer a few questions for me.


1. Buying/Selling shares and making profit would you say its luck more than research?
2. Is it possible to make an income from shares day trading buying/selling or to risky?


Hearing how people make tens of thousands a day from share market, is that so?


----------



## VSntchr (12 May 2013)

*Re: stockmarket questions...*



TheUnknown said:


> Hi people
> 
> I hope some of you people can help me as i want to start investing in shares looking for short term trades picking lows and sell at higher price, i have around 100k to invest if someone could answer a few questions for me.
> 
> ...




1. Of course you could make money via luck. However with luck its 50/50. In a rising market its more like 70/30. In a falling market its more like 10/90. The additional problem is that people buying with the hope of luck will not sell at the right time - so despite having the odds in their favour in a rising market, they may still lose as they don't know when to sell.
Therefore if you are serious about investing it comes down to research. Research to build a method and strategy as well as research about individual investments. Thats where the money is in the long term scheme of things.

2. Yes it is possible. But not for beginners (unless they are LUCKY - which won't last long).


Don't listen to people telling you how much money they've made. Yes it might be true, but they surely arent as eager to tell you about the days when theyve lost 10s of 1000s either!


My advice would be to focus on preserving your 100k. Make that PARAMOUNT. Preservation of capital is key and must always come first.

If you are serious about going down the investing your self path, understand that it takes many many hours to gain knowledge and experience.

If you absolutely cannot resist throwing down some of your hard earned, at least don't risk the entire amount! A smaller amount could be a good starting base upon which to start your education and investment journey...


----------



## sidy111 (13 May 2013)

*Hey, Im new.. help me.*

Hey Guys and gals, Im just chasing abit of info in regards to shares.
I work on a gassline so I sort of know which companies are doing well and have been keeping an eye on them.
Just wondering for instance sake Santos shares are @ $12.20 and I drop 12,200 and they then go up to $12,800 does that mean I just made $600 minus the trade fee's and tax at the end of the year?
only reason I ask is the companies I have been watching +- $1 every week so I figure I could make abit. with all that's going on with csg I can't imagine loosing and to be honest im a bad gambler so I figure better off with shares than pokies.
also wondering whats a good trading platform. Im thinking etrade looks pretty good.
I am really new to this game so any help is appreciated


----------



## RNI (13 May 2013)

Thanks for answering cbc and Trembling Hand, that has answered some of my questions. It was nor that I wanted to do shorting, but just didn't understand it.

There is a fair bit of accumulation of this stock with several fund managers declaring increased substantial holdings or becoming a substantial holder about every 2nd month, and ppl are suspecting they may be buying for another company who want to eventually T/O my company. Would any of these trades be called CROSS TRADES? otherwise where do all these cross trades come from? OR...would they be accumulating the large amounts via the bots?


----------



## Trembling Hand (13 May 2013)

RNI said:


> ppl are suspecting they may be buying for another company who want to eventually T/O my company. Would any of these trades be called CROSS TRADES? otherwise where do all these cross trades come from? OR...would they be accumulating the large amounts via the bots?




Not really. XT come from option expiry, funds shifting holdings within their accounts, dark pool trades etc.

There is NOTHING of significance from them. Remember for every large buy there has to be an equal large sell. If you are putting any significance on them its wholly due to your bias. Be careful!


----------



## Russtafaerian (15 May 2013)

ROE said:


> If you intend to invest in the market for a long time ..I recommend get this piece of software
> http://www.topshare.com.au/
> 
> it keep track of everything and you can go back in time and work out, what, where, when and when it comes to tax time it takes you 5 minutes for do....hit the tax report button...




Thank you for this recommendation - exactly the kind of thing I have been looking for for quite a while.


----------



## bailx (8 August 2013)

*Re: Hey, Im new.. help me.*

http://members.equitysmart.com.au/


sidy111 said:


> Hey Guys and gals, Im just chasing abit of info in regards to shares.
> I work on a gassline so I sort of know which companies are doing well and have been keeping an eye on them.
> Just wondering for instance sake Santos shares are @ $12.20 and I drop 12,200 and they then go up to $12,800 does that mean I just made $600 minus the trade fee's and tax at the end of the year?
> only reason I ask is the companies I have been watching +- $1 every week so I figure I could make abit. with all that's going on with csg I can't imagine loosing and to be honest im a bad gambler so I figure better off with shares than pokies.
> ...




hello Sid, congratulations on becoming a trader! :
You have got it sussed, if the trade go's up or down you win or lose that trade amount. minus fees. You can do cheaper then etrade. Check out these online brokers. Heaps to choose from http://www.brokerage-review.com/stock-brokers/lowest-trade-commissions.aspx. Also try out a demo with these guys. simple complaisant trading.http://members.equitysmart.com.au/ I recommend the volosity scan looking for pennies to dollars.


----------



## Jamesantenna (16 October 2013)

Hi everyone,

Newbie here, as this is my first post, please be gentle. I am really interested in share trading but just don't know where to start. I understand charts to a degree. But other than trends etc how does one find a stock to buy? What makes a stock stand out amongst the rest? There is so many out there what makes for a good 20 for my watch list? I understand that good and bad stocks change all the time but what makes one better than the other.  Thanks in advance.

James


----------



## burglar (17 October 2013)

Jamesantenna said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Newbie here, as this is my first post, please be gentle. I am really interested in share trading but just don't know where to start. I understand charts to a degree. But other than trends etc how does one find a stock to buy? What makes a stock stand out amongst the rest? There is so many out there what makes for a good 20 for my watch list? I understand that good and bad stocks change all the time but what makes one better than the other.  Thanks in advance.
> 
> James




You may already have a narrative ... along the lines of "The Chinese Commodity Boom"
Stainless steel, manganese, nickel and iron ore!

Or perhaps "The Energy Crisis"

Or even "Peak Phosphate"

Find a narrative that you like and then research, research, research!!

No need for headbanging, even though it feels sooo good when you stop!! :


----------



## mrated96 (18 October 2013)

*Beginner Investor - some questions*

Hi All

I'm about to start my first full time job as a grad lawyer and am wanting to start investing part of my income as soon as I can. I have no debts.

I am a basically investment illiterate and want to learn as much as I can. 

 I have a couple of questions:

- are there any great books I can start out with re stocks or investing in general? For complete beginners?
- any other useful resources ( I can already tell this forum will be amazing)
- practically, how do you guys manage your money? is there any software (excel?) or uses of technology (iPad/ iPhone) that I should look into for managing my money?
- what portion of my income would you recommend I invest?

Thanks in advance, looking forward to being part of this community!!


----------



## prawn_86 (18 October 2013)

*Re: Beginner Investor - some questions*



mrated96 said:


> Hi All
> 
> I'm about to start my first full time job as a grad lawyer and am wanting to start investing part of my income as soon as I can. I have no debts.
> 
> ...




Welcome.

Be sure to use the search function and check out hte Beginners Lounge for lots of answers you might be seeking.

With regards to point 4 my father always said if you can invest 10% of your post tax income for assets/retirement you will do well and still have money to enjoy things. The key is to not touch that money and allow compounding to work its magic


----------



## burglar (18 October 2013)

*Re: Beginner Investor - some questions*



prawn_86 said:


> ... search function ...




+one


----------



## TimJF (12 November 2013)

Hi all! I wonder if I could ask a very noob question? Say I bought XYZ at 15c and I decide I'd be happy to sell at 20c. What is the benefit of a conditional sell order triggered at 20c compared to just a normal sell order at 20c - I nuderstand the cond. Sell allows a trigger and minimum sell price to be set separately but they cost $10 more on commsec - is there another benefit I'm missing?


----------



## ROE (12 November 2013)

TimJF said:


> Hi all! I wonder if I could ask a very noob question? Say I bought XYZ at 15c and I decide I'd be happy to sell at 20c. What is the benefit of a conditional sell order triggered at 20c compared to just a normal sell order at 20c - I nuderstand the cond. Sell allows a trigger and minimum sell price to be set separately but they cost $10 more on commsec - is there another benefit I'm missing?




None, buy at 15c put in to sell 20c you don't need condition by put in 20c early you may even bag the advantage of getting in the front queue to sell ....

You only need condition if you want a little more complicated match than just straight buy/sell
Such as volume, moving average, stock suddenly jump etc....


----------



## BattleMoose (14 November 2013)

Hi all

So, awfully new here and done quite a lot of research in the past few weeks regarding investing and right now I think I have a very good of the charachteristics that I would be looking for in a company to invest it. But I am generally at a loss about finding this information.

Firstly, I couldn't even find the information regarding the yield curves for Australian government bond offerings?! (And historic?)

And for finding information regarding specific stocks, I can find anything I want to know on NASDAQ:
http://investing.money.msn.com/investments/stock-price?Symbol=HAS&ocid=qbes

But cannot find this information on stocks on the ASX, where can I find it?

Cheers


----------



## parrallax (15 November 2013)

*Re: Questions from a stock market beginner - a noob question*

Hi all, a newbie here with a question.
I am using commsec and mywealth platforms and have a small portfolio now. 
I am a little confused about when exactly I become the 'owner' of the shares... is it once contract note is received despite settlement happening T+3 days later?
Reason I ask is I sometimes want to be able to buy and sell shares on the same day (i.e. if it has a really good run), but am a little confused about whether that constitutes short selling?
Feedback appreciated
Regards
parra


----------



## burglar (15 November 2013)

*Re: Questions from a stock market beginner - a noob question*



parrallax said:


> ... I am a little confused about when exactly I become the 'owner' of the shares ...




The moment you buy, they are yours to hold or sell!


----------



## burglar (15 November 2013)

BattleMoose said:


> ... cannot find this information on stocks on the ASX, ...




Google<asx bhp>


----------



## BattleMoose (15 November 2013)

burglar said:


> Google<asx bhp>




I did find my way there, but the information I am looking for just isn't there.

Income Statement, Balance Sheet, Cash Flow statements. And on MSN money I can find, AVG P/E ,PRICE/ SALES, PRICE/ BOOK, NET PROFIT MARGIN (%), BOOK VALUE/SHARE,  DEBT/EQUITY, RETURN ON EQUITY all going back 10 years. 

Where can I find this for ASX stocks?

Where do you find it? What are the tools that you use to access it?


----------



## Tano (5 December 2013)

The 2013 Annual Report

http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/announcements.do?by=asxCode&asxCode=bhp&timeframe=Y&year=2013

http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=01446756


----------



## mikepowers (5 December 2013)

newbie trader said:


> I'm quite new to the share market and have heard many people I know rave about such things as the Eureka report and Rivkin report. They basically contend that they do the work for you and all you need to do is read the respective reports and pick a stock to buy. I took a look at them both and am really not sure whether it would be a waste of money subscribing to one as i'm confident that I can do the research myself, however, would they be useful to corroborate my findings? Do they infact relieve you of having to do your own research (i've never personally been a fan of letting others do important thing for me as i find you get better outcomes by doing things yourself)?
> 
> If anyone has subscribed to these types of reports or if you have some knowledge of them then your input would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> N.T




This will be a great insights for new starters, As an additional information on our own research.
I am happy to register with aussiestockforums, 
These are collections of data and strategy on Forex world,
Sharing is the best part of learning.


----------



## johnnyhuynh21 (9 January 2014)

Hi all,

Just a quick question on if it was possible to see insider activity on certain shares. For example, if i wanted to see if there are any directors or executives in bhp buying or selling bhp shares, is there possible way to see this ? if so, could anyone kindly point me in the right direction ?

Thanks


----------



## Valued (9 January 2014)

johnnyhuynh21 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just a quick question on if it was possible to see insider activity on certain shares. For example, if i wanted to see if there are any directors or executives in bhp buying or selling bhp shares, is there possible way to see this ? if so, could anyone kindly point me in the right direction ?
> 
> Thanks




You just check the announcements. There will be "Change in Director's Interest" announcements. This will include companies/family trusts etc that the director has an indirect interest in.

You can't really tell if employees are insider trading though unless it's being done in huge and very noticeable volumes.


----------



## MARKETWINNER (9 January 2014)

johnnyhuynh21 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just a quick question on if it was possible to see insider activity on certain shares. For example, if i wanted to see if there are any directors or executives in bhp buying or selling bhp shares, is there possible way to see this ? if so, could anyone kindly point me in the right direction ?
> 
> Thanks




If you search on stock exchange websites you should be able to find out about insider buying and selling. 

If it is Australian stocks another option to find out is to click on the following link. On that link you can find out from company announcement.  

http://www.asx.com.au


----------



## blaz0430 (19 January 2014)

*Beginner Questions*

Could someone with experience answer a few questions for me?


----------



## barney (19 January 2014)

*Re: Beginner Questions*



blaz0430 said:


> Could someone with experience answer a few questions for me?




Unusual first post Blaze!... 
I probably can't answer your questions, but I know a couple of people who can  ... Fire away


----------



## burglar (20 January 2014)

*Re: Beginner Questions*



blaz0430 said:


> Could someone with experience answer a few questions for me?




Yes!


----------



## blaz0430 (20 January 2014)

*Re: Beginner Questions*

haha thanks guys, when tax aspect of things comes into trading shares, How does it work??


----------



## barney (20 January 2014)

*Re: Beginner Questions*



blaz0430 said:


> haha thanks guys, when tax aspect of things comes into trading shares, How does it work??





Good place to start is the "Search" or "Advanced Search"  function, near the top right of screen.  Just type in whatever you're looking for.  Plenty of info on just about everything.

ps. If you're paying tax on your share trading, you are probably going ok


----------



## blaz0430 (20 January 2014)

*Re: Beginner Questions*

thanks for that il have a look now! Are a trader? if so what do you trade?


----------



## burglar (20 January 2014)

*Re: Beginner Questions*



blaz0430 said:


> haha thanks guys, when tax aspect of things comes into trading shares, How does it work??




Most important thing about tax is that you pay it.
The taxman is the only one who can put you in gaol without a trial.

Second most important thing about tax is that you only pay tax if you win.
So you gotta luv tax and pay as much as possible.


Decide if you are trading, as opposed to Value Investing.

Never decide to sell or hold on the basis of your tax position.
Decide based on your profit position.
Put the money aside to pay tax.
It's called provisioning!

Learn as much as you can about Capital Gains Tax.
It's not rocket science but there are nuances.
The tax office has a website.
You can phone, write or visit their office.
The taxman is a very nice person until you break the law.


----------



## blaz0430 (20 January 2014)

*Re: Beginner Questions*

thanks heaps for the information!


----------



## johnnyhuynh21 (4 February 2014)

Hi all,

just seeking a little bit of help in regards to finding information. I am currently trying to develop my own manual stock screener for the health care industry and was hoping to find all the average statistics for the industry. I thought i could do this on yahoo finance but it does not seem to have it. Just all the important ratios for performing fundamental analysis and any other relevant numbers stats.

Could anyone please point me in the right direction ?

Much appreciated,


----------



## Raksaksa (28 February 2014)

Hi all,

I have a dumb question. I have been asked to sell shares owned by an elderly relative. I have worked out that the shares are in an ASX listed company. Is it possible to sell the shares back to the Company directly or do I have to engage a broker to sell the shares?


----------



## Trembling Hand (28 February 2014)

Raksaksa said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have a dumb question. I have been asked to sell shares owned by an elderly relative. I have worked out that the shares are in an ASX listed company. Is it possible to sell the shares back to the Company directly or do I have to engage a broker to sell the shares?




You have to sell the shares on the market. The company will not buy them. So you will need a broker.


----------



## burglar (28 February 2014)

Raksaksa said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have a dumb question. I have been asked to sell shares owned by an elderly relative. I have worked out that the shares are in an ASX listed company. Is it possible to sell the shares back to the Company directly or do I have to engage a broker to sell the shares?




No dumb questions in the Beginner's Lounge!

Did the relative have a broker and/or documents? 
Might be helpful if said relative has some documents.


----------



## ASTA (28 February 2014)

burglar said:


> No dumb questions in the Beginner's Lounge!
> 
> Did the relative have a broker and/or documents?
> Might be helpful if said relative has some documents.




If you have been asked to sell stock on behalf of  relative
There are 2 ways to go about it..

1. You will have to have the relative assign you as a 3rd party to their account. So the broker can take instructions from you. This is easy to do and requires 100 points of ID etc..
or
2. Open an account in your name and off market transfer the stock to be sold, and this will require the relative to sigh off on the transfer and pay any relevant tax on any profit. This invokes a change in beneficial ownership to you.


----------



## burglar (28 February 2014)

burglar said:


> No dumb questions in the Beginner's Lounge!




These threads may be helpful:

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27827

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27794


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## adshilto (16 March 2014)

So over the past few weeks I have become extremely interested in shares. I have researched pretty much everything and decided that I would like to invest using fundamental, buying and selling the companies I select by using technical analysis. So my questions are:

Best place to find a good stock screener:
Best place to find good charting software:
Any other good stuff can be website or software that do things like news updates, watch lists, alerts etc.
I would like for these services to be free please as I am just starting out.

Another question I have is best way to diversify my stock portfolio

All long term investments? Long term investments with some short term? Long term growth/value investments with a combination of some good dividend shares and some day trading? Or something else because all of these ideas I've just been throwing around.

Thank you in advance!


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## HaydnPotgieter (16 April 2014)

Hey guys,
Im new to investing and im 20 years old. I am keen to get into day trading. I am currently using the Commsec platform and the issue is that it presents the market 30 minutes behind and when I trade, it has a 3 day settlement per trade. Meaning that I can trade 2-3 times per week max with my capital. 
I was just wondering if anyone is aware or any other platforms out there (in australia) which has realtime trading and same day settlement, keeping in mind that I am starting with only $5000. Platforms more suited to day trading whereby id be able to execute more than 2 trades per day??

Thanks


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## VSntchr (16 April 2014)

HaydnPotgieter said:


> Hey guys,
> Im new to investing and im 20 years old. I am keen to get into day trading. I am currently using the Commsec platform and the issue is that it presents the market 30 minutes behind and when I trade, it has a 3 day settlement per trade. Meaning that I can trade 2-3 times per week max with my capital.
> I was just wondering if anyone is aware or any other platforms out there (in australia) which has realtime trading and same day settlement, keeping in mind that I am starting with only $5000. Platforms more suited to day trading whereby id be able to execute more than 2 trades per day??
> 
> Thanks




I think you have your information a bit mixed up. Commsec is real time data, however perhaps you are referring to the charts - which are as you say not instant. 
Commsec actually lets you trade without the funds in your account, so long as you have the funds available once the time comes (T+3) you won't have any problems. CommSec creates an aggregate balance if you buy/sell on the same day and then applies that balance to your settlement account for settlement on T+3.

That said, CommSec is not your best bet for day trading - the brokerage is too high and the platform is not designed for it.
If you are set on day trading and know what your doing, then I would have a look at some of the CFD brokers which offer decent platforms and cheaper brokerage. But I will provide a warning with this - do not just jump in without doing extensive research on both who you sign up with and what you are trading. Otherwise, your $5k won't be there for very long.

Good luck and feel free to ask more questions as you figure out what you need to know


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## nomore4s (16 April 2014)

HaydnPotgieter said:


> Hey guys,
> Im new to investing and im 20 years old. I am keen to get into day trading. I am currently using the Commsec platform and the issue is that it presents the market 30 minutes behind and when I trade, it has a 3 day settlement per trade. Meaning that I can trade 2-3 times per week max with my capital.
> I was just wondering if anyone is aware or any other platforms out there (in australia) which has realtime trading and same day settlement, keeping in mind that I am starting with only $5000. Platforms more suited to day trading whereby id be able to execute more than 2 trades per day??
> 
> Thanks




I will go one step further then VSntchr and be somewhat harsher.

You shouldn't be daytrading full stop, in fact you probably shouldn't be trading at all. You obviously have a very limited understanding of how the market works (not a bad thing we have all been there) and are in no position to day trade based on knowledge, capital and tools.

There is no way you could possibly make money daytrading on a platform like Commsec with only $5000 over the long term when you consider you are outlaying around $40 per trade in brokerage. So straight away you need to make nearly 1% of total capital just to break even.

Also daytrading Aussie stocks is very difficult at the best of times as they don't tend to give a huge range after open very regularly.

You would be better off putting your $5k in a high interest account and opening a demo trading platform and spend some time learning about the markets - everything from stocks to futures - and the different ways to trade them.


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## sixty2strat (30 May 2014)

Hi guys,  I'm 27 and looking at getting more into shares. 

At the moment I have around $15k sitting in a ubank savings account but would like to split some of this up into an index funds. The plan being this will be my long term 10+ years savings. 

I have just opened a broker account with CMC markets and would like to buy around $5k worth of vanguards ASX300 ETF..   I know vanguard give you an option to re-invest your dividends,  but how do you go about actually setting this up? 
As I understand I will need to place a bid for the $5K worth of shares on my CMC account, but once I have ownership of this, how do I then have the dividends re-invested as more shares?

Should I be concerned at all about timing of buying? since I am looking at buying and holding. I notice ASX:VAS for example is at an all time high at the moment ($70.3). 

ALSO,  I have around 500 telstra shares which is CHESS sponsored, so I have a HIN number and a platform (link market services) which I can access my shares info.   Since I have just opened an account with CMC markets, they asked if I would like to combine any other CHESS accounts.   Can I just keep them separate and have two different HIN numbers?  Are there any fees associated with consolidation accounts into one?..


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## MVFC182 (3 August 2014)

Hey guys, new to the game and really enjoying the information on the forums.

Im sure this has been asked before but I cannot find after a few searches, is there a recommended computer program/app/website that lets you view realtime information whilst letting you view things like Volumes, add averages onto charts etc?

Doesn't worry me if it costs money.

Thanks


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## MVFC182 (4 August 2014)

MVFC182 said:


> Hey guys, new to the game and really enjoying the information on the forums.
> 
> Im sure this has been asked before but I cannot find after a few searches, is there a recommended computer program/app/website that lets you view realtime information whilst letting you view things like Volumes, add averages onto charts etc?
> 
> ...




Apologies, just saw the Trading Resources forum, all good!


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## burglar (4 August 2014)

MVFC182 said:


> Apologies, just saw the Trading Resources forum, all good!




Apologies, I thought Sum Wun would respond.


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## crypto (9 August 2014)

I have just spent the best part of the last 4 hours reading this whole thread.
Fascinating stuff - looks like a great community here.

Hello from a terrapin


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## Mlbbkk (17 August 2014)

Hi, a simple question on my behalf..
Can somebody kindly introduce me on the difference between the S&P the NYSE, NASDAQ and FTSE?
I googled it, couldn't find much info besides the fact that they are the American indexes.
The DOW is strictly the top 30 AMERICAN stocks, right?
Cheers.


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## burglar (18 August 2014)

http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/03/072403.asp


http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/djia.asp


http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/sp.asp


http://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/ftse.asp


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## Mlbbkk (18 August 2014)

burglar said:


> http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/03/072403.asp
> 
> 
> http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/djia.asp
> ...




Thanks Burglar. It's still not great sense though. I already know they are stock indicies.
What characteristics makes them differ? Why would anyone trade on the S&P and not the NYSE. Why is there even different stock indexes rather than having these together?


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## Mlbbkk (19 August 2014)

Mlbbkk said:


> Thanks Burglar. It's still not great sense though. I already know they are stock indicies.
> What characteristics makes them differ? Why would anyone trade on the S&P and not the NYSE. Why is there even different stock indexes rather than having these together?




Bump


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## burglar (19 August 2014)

Mlbbkk said:


> Bump




Why are there different cheeses?


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## Julia (19 August 2014)

Mlbbkk said:


> Bump



Have you simply googled the various acronyms you don't understand?


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## DeepState (19 August 2014)

Mlbbkk said:


> Hi, a simple question on my behalf..
> Can somebody kindly introduce me on the difference between the S&P the NYSE, NASDAQ and FTSE?
> I googled it, couldn't find much info besides the fact that they are the American indexes.
> The DOW is strictly the top 30 AMERICAN stocks, right?
> Cheers.




S&P 500 is an index of US listed stocks.  S&P also offers indices over other markets, including Australia (S&P/ASX).
NYSE is an exchange
NASDAQ is an exchange
FTSE 100 is an index of UK stocks.  FTSE also offers indices over other markets, including Australia (FTSE/ASFA).

DJIA is maintained by S&P and does consist of 30 stocks listed in the US.  It is price weighted as opposed to market-weighted as per above.

Why different indices?  Why so many makes of cars and trucks and breakfast cereals?  Choice, differentiation, price, purposes...


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## burglar (19 August 2014)

crypto said:


> ... Hello from a terrapin




What an exquisite creature! 
Ohh, the terrapin is nice too!!

:


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## Mlbbkk (20 August 2014)

Julia said:


> Have you simply googled the various acronyms you don't understand?




Yes I did, Julia. If you read my question you would see I purposely mentioned I had searched google.




DeepState said:


> S&P 500 is an index of US listed stocks.  S&P also offers indices over other markets, including Australia (S&P/ASX).
> NYSE is an exchange
> NASDAQ is an exchange
> FTSE 100 is an index of UK stocks.  FTSE also offers indices over other markets, including Australia (FTSE/ASFA).
> ...




Thank you for the straight forward answer. Just what I needed.


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## crypto (20 August 2014)

burglar said:


> What an exquisite creature!
> Ohh, the terrapin is nice too!!
> 
> :





Have just started with this - fascinating reading


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## Julia (20 August 2014)

Mlbbkk said:


> Yes I did, Julia. If you read my question you would see I purposely mentioned I had searched google.



I asked specifically if you'd googled individual index acronyms, eg FTSE.

RY has since kindly typed it all out for you.  I just checked, and entering just FTSE provides multiple links to many choices of concise and detailed explanations.

This is not criticism, but usually when you're beginning, the more you learn about how to research something yourself, the faster and more comprehensive will be your progress.  
Good luck.


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## Mlbbkk (21 August 2014)

Julia said:


> I asked specifically if you'd googled individual index acronyms, eg FTSE.
> 
> RY has since kindly typed it all out for you.  I just checked, and entering just FTSE provides multiple links to many choices of concise and detailed explanations.
> 
> ...




Apologies, I assumed it was criticism! I understand having to answer beginners questions such as myself's would feel like the tech support department for internet troubleshooting, "have you tried turning it on and off?"

Researching this topic is very difficult, finding the right way to get THERE (alpha?) QUICKER as you mention...

I'm finding no balance on information. Reading 'The Intelligent Investor' was a nightmare. And rich dad poor dad seeming only relevant for poor money management.. When I look up key terms, valuation techniques etc information either seems too basic or too complex to understand.

Does anybody else experience this?
Cheers


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## burglar (21 August 2014)

Mlbbkk said:


> Apologies, I assumed it was criticism! I understand having to answer beginners questions such as myself's would feel like the tech support department for internet troubleshooting, "have you tried turning it on and off?"
> 
> Researching this topic is very difficult, finding the right way to get THERE (alpha?) QUICKER as you mention...
> 
> ...




Everyone, almost without exception, had to learn.
I wrote you a more intelligible response. 
My internet fell over while transmitting.
My IT man asked, "Tin roof?"
And suddenly it was my fault.

If you don't have a tin roof too, 
perhaps you could rephrase the biggest questions you have.


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## pixel (28 October 2014)

Today, I was talking to a friend who would like to start investing in/ trading Aussie shares.
His questions were as basic as they come; so I sent him an email with some very basic answers.
Why waste the effort on one? I thought. One or two noobs on this Forum may also get some use out of it.



> I'm just browsing through some of my research tools and thought I'd share a few more websites with you. They're all free of charge, which means they can be worth infinitely more than what you pay.
> 
> First and foremost, http://www.aussiestockforums.com will have an answer to most of your trade-related questions, and much more. But if you can't find what you're looking for at the *ASF*, try *Whirlpool.* That is a free Forum of Forums on just about anything and everything.
> Membership is free, or search as guest. Initially, I joined for Internet-related research, but there's advice on anything you could think of asking. Among others, trading and investment scams like 1wealth etc: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2140654 - backing up what ASF members knew all along too.
> ...


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## grah33 (11 November 2014)

*more beginner questions.*

basic quesitons.

Hi 
just a few more questions if you guys don't mind:

1. i'm still unclear behind the logic of buying shares.  say you have a company that starts out small, and has a low share price, and its destiny is to increase it's wealth and profits quickly.  and, for this example, it will pay no dividends.  why do people buy the share?   we don't get none of those profits, just gains from the share price rising, ie from what people think about it's worth .  but why are we all buying it ? because other people will buy it for more later, but still, why are we buying it? if it was a dodgy company, everyone could buy the share too, and it would go up.  whether great or bad company, we don't get those profits,so i'm unclear on the logic of why we are buying the share .  


2. why do companies want to keep their share prices up?  when they raise money after the IPO, they get the money there and then. why would they want to keep the share price high? i get the impression that they want to do this. it seems too that they may pay dividends to keep the share price up.

thanks again


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## luutzu (11 November 2014)

*Re: more beginner questions.*



grah33 said:


> basic quesitons.
> 
> Hi
> just a few more questions if you guys don't mind:
> ...




In general, don't mix dividends with the company's prospect or profitability. Don't put the cart before the horse as they say.

Ideally, honest, owner-like-thinking management will only ever pay dividends if they find no better use for the profits the company earn; so they keep what earnings they can make the most of and return to the shareholders, its owners, excess cash. But there are fund managers, widows and orphans and trust fund kids so most established companies pay dividends regardless of performance. 

As you alluded to, some companies, in an effort to increase the share price, would even borrow money to pay dividends. Those management who does not see the sense in that, but who also recognise the need to pay dividends to keep fund managers happy, they would then introduced Dividend Reinvestment Plan where you can choose to take div as cash or as new shares. 

So why do people buy shares when it pays no dividends? Because they think the company ought to keep what profit it has in the company and grow the business, expand, make it more valuable.... this mean the owner do not have to pay income tax from dividends, the company can grow and only pay 30% tax on profits, and if it grows and become more valuable later, the investor can then sell at a high price and pay a much lower capital gains tax than they would if they're already rich, too busy to know what to do with the dividends, and prefer to not pay tax from that income just to reinvest it (less of it).

2. Higher and increasing share price mean management can get to keep their job, haha. That and it's better to raise money if they want to - just print more shares, get more cash. 

The ASX is what they call a secondary market. It's where shareholders (and also the company if it so chooses) trade shares - the company have no direct play in its pricing. So at IPOs, the original owner, be it the gov't privatising Medibank, or founders or privateers... they sold their ownership in the company and the new investors than trade it on the market... since there's usually millions of new ownership, it appear like they're constantly buy/sell when it could be just a small percentage that does that.

Often, the original investor/owner does not sell all their stakes. They sold enough to suit their needs, and so hope the price goes higher in case they want to sell more, or higher so their remaining holding...


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## Julia (11 November 2014)

> we don't get none of those profits, just gains from the share price rising, ie from what people think about it's worth . but why are we all buying it ?




I don't know why you'd dismiss the value of capital gain.

If you'd bought CBA, e.g., when the market returned to uptrend after the GFC you could have paid around $30.  Today it's at almost $83.  Not that far off tripling your investment.

If you'd bought $20,000 worth, that would have turned into almost $55,000 now.


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## herzy (11 November 2014)

*Re: more beginner questions.*

Well said Luutzu. And Julia. 

I would just add that companies don't necessarily want to keep their share price up. In fact, sometimes companies want to reduce their share price, and so will split shares, to increase liquidity or access to small players (e.g. Apple). 

What everybody wants is for the share price to increase, not for it to 'stay up'. The reason for this is that ideally a share price should reflect the inherent value of a company, which should always be going up.


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## luutzu (11 November 2014)

*Re: more beginner questions.*



herzy said:


> Well said Luutzu. And Julia.
> 
> I would just add that companies don't necessarily want to keep their share price up. In fact, sometimes companies want to reduce their share price, and so will split shares, to increase liquidity or access to small players (e.g. Apple).
> 
> What everybody wants is for the share price to increase, not for it to 'stay up'. The reason for this is that ideally a share price should reflect the inherent value of a company, which should always be going up.




Yea that's a good point.

Companies also play that game to give the impression of their company's "value". If most of your peers are around $5 and your stock is $15, it seems expensive; or a stock that's $100 seems out of reach.

Best to look at the whole company, then divided by number of shares outstanding.


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## grah33 (12 November 2014)

*Re: more beginner questions.*

i understand that capital grows and that's great but i'm still fundamentally unclear on why we buy shares in the first place.


example:
with  antiques there are 2 reasons for buying them - buying them to sell them later because it's worth more, and buying them because a person might like them (in the case of a customer).  but with shares, the first reason certainly applies (buy and sell at a higher price later), but the second reason dosn't exist really. that's what doesn't make sense to me.  doesn't make sense why people buy them in the first place.  or is it because people like to have a share in a company for image?    still not getting the logic of buying them in the first place.  

profits occur because there is  a demand for somehting which raises it's price (cap gains), although it (the share) in itself is useless to everyone. while an antiques have a market of people who like them

get where i'm coming from?


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## McLovin (12 November 2014)

*Re: more beginner questions.*



grah33 said:


> profits occur because there is  a demand for somehting which raises it's price (cap gains), although it (the share) in itself is useless to everyone. while an antiques have a market of people who like them




The shares represent an entitlement on the future cash flows of the business. Hardly useless.

I think you may be over thinking things.


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## tech/a (12 November 2014)

*Re: more beginner questions.*



grah33 said:


> i understand that capital grows and that's great but i'm still fundamentally unclear on why we buy shares in the first place.
> 
> 
> example:
> ...




Yes.

If you bought Westfield when they first listed.---1000 shares
Today you would be a millionaire many times over.

When the Commonwealth bank listed they were at $2.50 a share.
Today $82 a share 
So $30,000 of them now $1 million.

They look attractive in your portfolio!

Your becoming a part owner of a company. Regardless of how small.
Some overtime invest so much that they own it.
Buffett for example.


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## Julia (12 November 2014)

Why do people buy shares?  To make money.  Via both capital gain and yield.
Doesn't have to be any sort of esoteric, high minded principle involved such as the beauty of antiques.
No need to complicate it.


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## burglar (12 November 2014)

*Re: more beginner questions.*



grah33 said:


> ... get where i'm coming from?




Before I buy into a company, I will do some homework on them.
What do they do?
Where do they do it?

What do they make, if anything?

Cochlear implants or bacteria that clean oil pipelines, ...
it doesn't need to be boring!

I find an it enjoyable pastime of itself.


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## luutzu (12 November 2014)

*Re: more beginner questions.*



grah33 said:


> i understand that capital grows and that's great but i'm still fundamentally unclear on why we buy shares in the first place.
> 
> 
> example:
> ...




It's quite fun to walk along Westfields or take a drive and point out that I own that, and that. Yes, I own 0.000000000000001% of it, but I still own it.


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## grah33 (12 November 2014)

i think i'm getting it now.  a valuable stock is worth something that others will eventually recognise if they hvaen't already.  it's a part of a business, if that business brings in more profits than you have more value to your 'part' in it. you can sell it as there will always be share buyers out there and they will know that the business is eg a good one and pay you more for it.  i think my confusion had something to do with me not being able to see that  owning parts of a business is another thing to trade and there is a need for it.  a lack of clarity... thank you all


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## herzy (12 November 2014)

Perhaps a slightly different perspective will help. 

Privately, all property is owned in 'shares'. So your house is potentially owned in equal shares between you and your spouse. Companies are the same. There may be two shares in the company, one owned by you, the other by your spouse. There may be 100, each held by different people. 

These companies may wish to raise capital to expand. To do this, they decide to sell a portion of their shares in exchange for money, which goes into the company. The original shareholders benefit, because the company (which they still partly own) now is more valuable - it has money, which is needed to expand. 

One way of selling shares to raise money is via a market, or exchange. One of these is the Australian Stock Exchange (ASX). So a private company seeking to sell some of its shares ('equity') may decide to do so on the ASX, and so they will 'float' their shares there and hope somebody buys them. 

Thereafter, the owners are free to sell their shares on the market / ASX whenever they choose, so you can end up with many owners, and shares changing hands multiple times. 

Why do people do this? To own a company they think will be worth more in future (and either keep it and collect dividends, or sell those shares - now more valuable - to someone else later). Some would call this entitlement to future cash flows. 

Other people are less interested in company ownership, and buy shares in companies because they think the share price will increase. This is more Julia's view. They do this purely hoping to sell later at a higher price. 

Others people are even less interested in the underlying company, and buy purely because they believe (based on patterns or whatever) that the share price will go up, and they can sell it at a higher price than they bought it. 

People tend to be somewhere on that scale. 'Value' investors tend to see themselves more as company owners; 'traders' see shares as something that can be traded based on price, like commodities, currency etc.


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## Julia (12 November 2014)

herzy said:


> Perhaps a slightly different perspective will help.
> 
> Privately, all property is owned in 'shares'. So your house is potentially owned in equal shares between you and your spouse. Companies are the same. There may be two shares in the company, one owned by you, the other by your spouse. There may be 100, each held by different people.
> 
> ...




Herzy, that's a comprehensive response which will be very helpful to grah, I'm sure.

On this


> Other people are less interested in company ownership, and buy shares in companies because they think the share price will increase. This is more Julia's view. They do this purely hoping to sell later at a higher price.



I'd just like to clarify that, before buying any share, I have a narrow universe of sound companies with many years of increasing profits, dividends, ROE etc, low or no debt.  This is very different from those who trade purely on price.  I'm just a simple trend follower, ie climb on to rising trend, and get out when it reverses.

Then, separately, from that same universe I have a small p/f which represents an alternative to money at call, ie chosen for grossed up yield, which I'm prepared to hold through dips.


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## herzy (13 November 2014)

Julia said:


> I'd just like to clarify that, before buying any share, I have a narrow universe of sound companies with many years of increasing profits, dividends, ROE etc, low or no debt.  This is very different from those who trade purely on price.  I'm just a simple trend follower, ie climb on to rising trend, and get out when it reverses.
> 
> Then, separately, from that same universe I have a small p/f which represents an alternative to money at call, ie chosen for grossed up yield, which I'm prepared to hold through dips.




It's a good example of not entirely choosing either side of the spectrum, and probably very helpful to grah in deciding which style he wants to develop. I had always thought you were more of a trader (being such a proponent of trend-following), but now that I think back I think your main motivation was capital preservation. Nevermind!

I more used your comment above (even if not representative of your actual approach) as an example to grah as to how one can look at shares: To make money. Via both capital gain and yield.
Doesn't have to be any sort of esoteric, high minded principle involved such as the beauty of antiques.
No need to complicate it.

Your approach describes a filter to select for 'good' companies, but that's more to ensure that your investment is safe, logical, and will provide good returns, - and then buy at the right time (trend following): which is a good example of being less focussed on the 'story' of the company itself and seeing yourself as an owner, but rather seeing the stock market as a place to get capital gains and dividends. 

It may seem like semantics (and it is, as the result is the same - increased assets) but hopefully it helps grah and others to conceptualise the different way shares are used.


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## grah33 (17 November 2014)

hi
i have a few more beginner like questions.  I've read lots of stuff but need some practical basic knowledge to fill the gaps.

1) i take it if another GFC happened again overnight, a person can have some kind of automatic exit sale order (eg. “sell shares when price drops to X”), which could protect them from disaster.   correct? i'm thinking my shares would sell automatically and i'd get the money going to my bank account safely. no drama. 

2) i assume one can sell their shares if they are going down hill (say a bear market occurs) and then later on re-buy them if they increase again in share-price and things are looking good again ?


3) i've read lots of info, but not an example for me.  what can i do with eg 20k?  i want to avoid great risk and build it up gradually over many years . what money percentage would i put into income/blue chip stocks? and what for the  remaining percentage into growth stocks? Is there another group of shares I need too?

4) to be diversified and protected enough, how many companies do i need for my 20k investment?

5)  should  i incorporate  a fund, and how much of that 20k?  it's an easy way to diversify. and will i be losing lots of money to the fund manager so that it's not worth it?


6)  what's a good exit percentage for blue chips?  i mean, for eg. cba or other blue-chips, if they go down, how much down until i sell them off to avoid disaster? Their current stationary high shareprice is never guaranteed. i would probably just use the money and buy other blue chip shares.  I'm thinking I would have automatic sell orders going so they sell when the price goes down a certain amount.  Those shares are meant to be stable for me, so i'll get rid of them if they go down too much.


7) what could i monitor (apart from share price) to discern that a company is losing value? I want to look at such indications regularly and so be prepared if I need to sell my shares in some company.

8) my impression is that a bear market is when the all ordinaries drops in value 20% over at least 2 months.  thus, if it's at eg. 5500 points currently, it must drop at least 20% of that number of points.  if that happens the economy is afflicted and i should look at selling off my shares into defensive shares or just selling it all off and keeping it in the bank.


Thanks everyone.  Hope I don't come across irritating.


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## Julia (17 November 2014)

Just to look at one of your points:


> if that happens the economy is afflicted and i should look at selling off my shares into defensive shares




1.  What would you consider examples of defensive shares?

2.  Why wouldn't you be buying these as your first choice anyway?


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## luutzu (17 November 2014)

grah33 said:


> hi
> i have a few more beginner like questions.  I've read lots of stuff but need some practical basic knowledge to fill the gaps.
> 
> 1) i take it if another GFC happened again overnight, a person can have some kind of automatic exit sale order (eg. “sell shares when price drops to X”), which could protect them from disaster.   correct? i'm thinking my shares would sell automatically and i'd get the money going to my bank account safely. no drama.
> ...




Your questions aim to help reduce losses, right?

None of those strategies would help, if they could, the effort to track them would better be used on getting to know the business. To use "stop loss" strategies like that could actually lock in your losses, especially during times like these.

There is only two approaches to buying stocks: one is market-based, the other is business-based. 

Within the market-based approach, there's technical analysis (charting) as well as, yes hard to believe but the fundamental approach as practised by most professionals are also market-based because it based too many of its decisions on market variables - such as market cap, share prices and its variations against a representative index of stocks; that and stop loss if the price dropped x% from when you bought it.

In my opinion, you ought to approach this as you do a business. And your business is buying other businesses on the stock market (or privately off market)... since $20K won't buy you any business to speak of privately, you're buying a share of a public business, a part of it, sold through the stock/share market. 

Don't let the frequent share price movements and other fancy works get in the way of this basic fact.

There are those who can play the market, who have access to databases and who knows when to get in and out... while you and I can play that game, chances are we're not resourceful enough and stop-loss strategies ain't going to help our profits, just lock in a loss at an "acceptable" level.


----------



## grah33 (18 November 2014)

say i bought CBA. i have to have a rescue plan.  say it starts going down badly, unusually , and i have to exit. what % decrease would one typically exit?  if another gfc occurs, i'm not going to stay in there.  my impression is that many try  to get out if things go really badly.  



defensive stocks, as per the stockwatch website, like woolworths. they keep shareprice constant but produce a dividend, which is better then putting the converted money  into the bank.


----------



## Value Collector (18 November 2014)

grah33 said:


> say i bought CBA. i have to have a rescue plan.  say it starts going down badly, unusually , and i have to exit. what % decrease would one typically exit?  if another gfc occurs, i'm not going to stay in there.  my impression is that many try  to get out if things go really badly.
> 
> 
> 
> defensive stocks, as per the stockwatch website, like woolworths. they keep shareprice constant but produce a dividend, which is better then putting the converted money  into the bank.




Everyone has different strategies,

I would suggest taking the attitude of a business man, Learn how to find good businesses you can understand, learn how to work out how much the companies are worth, and buy their shares when the shares are trading significantly cheaper than what the company is worth.

Consider selling the shares when they have become significantly over valued, or you believe the long term outlook for the company has changed and the price no longer represents value.

Short term volatility doesn't really bother me, you can take away most of the risk of long term loss by not over paying to start with.

If you bought CBA 10years ago, and held right through the GFC and reinvested all the dividends into the dividend reinvestment plan, you would be sitting pretty now. The GFC would have actually helped you, because the dividends paid during that time would have bought you more shares because the price was cheaper.



> i assume one can sell their shares if they are going down hill (say a bear market occurs) and then later on re-buy them if they increase again in share-price and things are looking good again ?




you want to buy low sell high, not sell low buy high.


----------



## grah33 (18 November 2014)

hi
just thought i'd repost some of my  questions, as i'm still sorting out how to do it on a practical level.  read tonnes of stuff but not enough practical info yet.


1) i take it if another GFC happened again overnight, a person can have some kind of automatic exit sale order (eg. “sell shares when price drops to X”), which could protect them from disaster. correct? i'm thinking my shares would sell automatically and i'd get the money going to my bank account safely. no drama.

2) i assume one can sell their shares if they are going down hill (say a bear market occurs) and then later on re-buy them if they increase again in share-price and things are looking good again ?


3) i've read lots of info, but not an example for me. what can i do with eg 20k? i want to avoid great risk and build it up gradually over many years . what money percentage would i put into income/blue chip stocks? and what for the remaining percentage into growth stocks? Is there another group of shares I need too?

4) to be diversified and protected enough, how many companies do i need for my 20k investment?

5) should i incorporate a fund, and how much of that 20k? it's an easy way to diversify. and will i be losing lots of money to the fund manager so that it's not worth it?


6) what's a good exit percentage for blue chips? i mean, for eg. cba or other blue-chips, if they go down, how much down until i sell them off to avoid disaster? as their current stationary high shareprice is never guaranteed. i would probably just use the money and buy other blue chip shares. I'm thinking I would have automatic sell orders going so they sell when the price goes down a certain amount. Those shares are meant to be stable for me, so i'll get rid of them if they go down too much.

thanks


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## Habakkuk (18 November 2014)

grah33 said:


> just thought i'd repost some of my  questions, as i'm still sorting out how to do it on a practical level.  read tonnes of stuff but not enough practical info yet.





Could you give us an indication of what it is that you have read tonnes of?  A short list will do.


----------



## DeepState (18 November 2014)

grah33 said:


> hi
> just thought i'd repost some of my  questions, as i'm still sorting out how to do it on a practical level.  read tonnes of stuff but not enough practical info yet.
> 
> 
> ...




1. You will not be protected if there is an overnight gap (assuming you are not otherwise using derivatives).  If it happens during the trading day, you may still experience gap risk.  In general, having stops regularly managed will help limit downside risk.  However, do not think for a moment that adding stops all over the place actually contributes to making money which is what this is ultimately about in the longer term.


2. What matters is finding stocks that will be going up.  You assume that you actually know that stocks will continue to go down just because they have.  This assumption is very questionable.  In effect you will also be selling low and buying high.  Not the smartest thing if you are thinking for the long term.

Do not invest what you cannot afford to lose.  That is the risk management practice that should not be sacrificed.


3. What you want is a portfolio that makes sense.  Individual components of the type you mention are less relevant than thinking about the whole thing is.  You want good stocks.  A good stock is one which goes up (subject to risk taken).  These stocks do not care what you classify them as ahead of time.


4. Depends on purpose.  If you just want to get an economically representative exposure to the Australian equity market, as few as 12 will do it.  But it depends on what you are buying.  A portfolio of 12 mining explorers is hardly adequate for most people. The weights also matter.  The detail matters when responding to your question in an underlying sense.


5. You can buy an index ETF whose management fees are very low.  You would be surprised as to how hard it will be to beat this over the very long term.  You will encounter a lot of noise explaining why you could do better etc. The great majority will not deliver. Check the sources.


6. It depends.


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## Julia (18 November 2014)

grah33 said:


> say i bought CBA. i have to have a rescue plan.  say it starts going down badly, unusually , and i have to exit. what % decrease would one typically exit?  if another gfc occurs, i'm not going to stay in there.  my impression is that many try  to get out if things go really badly.



RY has addressed this issue.



> defensive stocks, as per the stockwatch website, like woolworths. they keep shareprice constant but produce a dividend, which is better then putting the converted money  into the bank.



It might help your understanding to look at a few stock charts.  If you don't have access to a charting program I think the ASX probably has some basic charts where you can look at what has actually happened with share prices over various periods. www.asx.com.au
http://hfgapps.hubb.com/asxtools/Charts.aspx


On WOW, for example, it wasn't immune during the GFC.  Fell from around $35 to under $25.  Now around $33.
Div yield around 4% fully franked.

On CBA which you raise as an example, it was around $60 pre GFC, went down to less than half that.  But now it's $81!   Dividend around 5%, fully franked.



Value Collector said:


> Everyone has different strategies,
> 
> I would suggest taking the attitude of a business man, Learn how to find good businesses you can understand, learn how to work out how much the companies are worth, and buy their shares when the shares are trading significantly cheaper than what the company is worth.
> 
> ...



Yes, this is a popular approach with some.  I guess you have to like analysing businesses.   I don't.  A focus on price which reflects market sentiment, will largely preserve your capital and mean you're not holding onto a dog which is going down.

(As an example of this, have a look at chart of MND, once an absolute market darling, tripling in price from 2005 to 2008, recovering post GFC to around $30,  but now in strong downtrend, today $10.64.   Because of the fall in price, the dividend yield is now about 11%.  Does that make it worth the capital risk?  Absolutely not for me, but obviously there's an attraction there for some people or they wouldn't still be holding on to it.)

Best advice I ever heard was "let your profits run and keep your losses small".  So I'd be opposed to the philosophy of selling because "it's overvalued".  If the price is continuing to rise, the market is putting that value on it, so why sell when there is still money to be made.

However, I get the philosophy of the value investors.  Am not trying to be argumentative or inflammatory, just offering a different approach.

If, grah, as you suggested earlier, you exited soon after the GFC occurred, (unlikely to sell at exactly the top, but giving back just a small amount of profit), sat out the GFC in cash (good interest rates available at the time because of the credit squeeze), then buy back when it trended up again you could buy about twice as many shares as you sold, with consequent increased income from dividends and franking.

I'd guess that would be more profitable than just the addition of the dividends being reinvested as VC suggests, but haven't done the sums.

Then, everything RY said.


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## luutzu (18 November 2014)

Julia said:


> RY has addressed this issue.
> 
> 
> It might help your understanding to look at a few stock charts.  If you don't have access to a charting program I think the ASX probably has some basic charts where you can look at what has actually happened with share prices over various periods. www.asx.com.au
> ...




How will you then buy businesses if the stock market closed down; or if the business does not list on an exchange?

I mean I agree with you that there are other ways, and your approach might be just as or more sensible than other approaches... but it seems to me that if an approach to buying a business on an exchange cannot be applied to buying the same or similar business but one not listed... that approach might not be correct.

Don't get me wrong, it might work fine, it might even be more profitable... but might not be the right way, the right scale, to use to measure businesses to buy.


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## luutzu (19 November 2014)

grah33 said:


> hi
> just thought i'd repost some of my  questions, as i'm still sorting out how to do it on a practical level.  read tonnes of stuff but not enough practical info yet.
> 
> 
> ...




1. Private brokers would offer that, don't think cheap online brokers like commsec set that - unless you make that order and redo it every month.

2. That assumes you can pick when it's going to go down further; when it's up and will go up further.
This approach never worked for me. Once I sold something, I rarely buy them back... either looked elsewhere already or too proud to pay higher than what I sold them at.

3-4. At $20K, 12 stocks is too much diversification... maybe 4 or 5 max. Spread them across different sector and best to stick to big corp. say ones with sales around $2 billion... that's not to say they won't go down the tube, but less chance of total flush.

5. You would lose a lot more money if you don't know what you're doing. Best to get educated first before trying it out yourself. Maybe pick a couple of big blue chips to get interested... in mean time either buy an index fund or put in saving account.

It's best to not lose money; don't think that by not doing anything you're losing money because it's not earning... that is true, but it is also true that you might lose both principal and opportunity if you just pluck it out there.

6. I've exited a few investment with gains of 30 to 50% in less than a year, and still lose a lot of money on those. i.e. I shouldn't have exited.

You got to really understand the business and what it's worth, else you could lose out when it goes down as well as when it goes up. Screwed both ways.


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## Julia (19 November 2014)

luutzu said:


> How will you then buy businesses if the stock market closed down; or if the business does not list on an exchange?
> 
> I mean I agree with you that there are other ways, and your approach might be just as or more sensible than other approaches... but it seems to me that if an approach to buying a business on an exchange cannot be applied to buying the same or similar business but one not listed... that approach might not be correct.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, it might work fine, it might even be more profitable... but might not be the right way, the right scale, to use to measure businesses to buy.



If the above is in response to my post, I  have no idea what you're talking about.  Stock market closing down????
Business not listed????  More than 2000 stocks on the ASX:  plenty to choose from, and my selection would be from a carefully selected few.

How about a few other people responding to the OP here?  He asks for clarification on some basic points.
Maybe some of the folk who usually only post on the political threads might like to share their market approach?


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## luutzu (19 November 2014)

Julia said:


> If the above is in response to my post, I  have no idea what you're talking about.  Stock market closing down????
> Business not listed????  More than 2000 stocks on the ASX:  plenty to choose from, and my selection would be from a carefully selected few.
> 
> How about a few other people responding to the OP here?  He asks for clarification on some basic points.
> Maybe some of the folk who usually only post on the political threads might like to share their market approach?




Was saying that if your approach is to look at market movement, the stock share prices dropping or going up etc.... if you based your approach on that, how could you use that approach if there is no stock market? Or how to use that to buy private businesses not listed?

But if the answer is you won't buy private businesses, the market exists and you will only buy it there. then OK.


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## Julia (19 November 2014)

The whole thread, for that matter, this whole forum, is about the stock market so why you'd make a comment based on its non-existence is somewhat puzzling.


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## pixel (19 November 2014)

Julia said:


> How about a few other people responding to the OP here?  He asks for clarification on some basic points.
> Maybe some of the folk who usually only post on the political threads might like to share their market approach?




Great suggestion, Julia;
this is after all the *Aussie Stock Forum* and not some pseudo-philosophical debating circle.

FWIW, grah33:
Several brokers - even small onliners - offer "Stop Loss" or "Conditional" orders. While nobody can give an absolute guarantee that such an order will be executed, the chances of an extremely nasty surprise can be greatly minimised by selecting suitable stocks and keeping a close eye on each stock's life cycle.

In regard of conditional orders, I will however urge caution, Personally, I never set an automatic order where I leave it up to a broker's operator or computer system to execute a sell order. At your current state of study, it would probably take too much time to explain the details: searching this Forum for "stop raids" might give a clue. Instead, I watch how my stocks perform, set alerts for announcements and trading ranges, and make informed decisions whether to sell, hold, or buy more at certain predetermined price points. But unlike luutzu, I'd urge you not to review your price points once a month, but check performance *every day.* 

Systems that offer reliable alerts do cost money, of which you don't have all that much. But if you follow luutzu's suggestion and limit yourself to about 5 stocks, you should be able to check all the necessary information several times a day by looking at the current trading range with e.g. incrediblecharts, and market announcements on the ASX website http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/announcements.do .

Depending on your nerves, you could then hold on to your chosen stocks for as long as they meet your criteria, even if they were dropping due to the Market expectation of impending doom - be it sectional or global.

If your nerves are not quite up to it, if you were losing sleep over the risk of a 10% or 20% paper loss, you might indeed be better off with a term deposit. After all, the prime maxim of the Share Market is -
*Only buy shares with money you can afford to lose!*


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## grah33 (4 December 2014)

*qs on "day  trading"*

i've noticed some people just try to trade on the go as well as long term investing in shares.  Just wondering, what does the process involve for finding stock to buy and hold and soon after trade (day trading )?  how does one go about it? i'm at home (for various reasons can't work) so maybe this might suit me.  maybe i can make some smaller gains from time to time. 


thanks for answering my other questions. i read and reflected on those posts. they are helpful to me.  also, someone asked which source i've been learning from. i learned alot from the comm bank learning site, stockwatch.com.au articles, stockwatch shares game, and the asx site. i should have done the asx course first. it's comprehensive and covers all the things a person needs to know, or almost all things , in one place. that's what we beginners need in a resource, rather than articles which focus on certain aspects only.


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## Habakkuk (4 December 2014)

It's probably a bit presumptuous of me to offer advice, maybe even illegal but ASIC will have to find me first.
You're reading lots of stuff and that's a good thing, but think about who wrote it, why it was written and when.
I could elaborate, but you can figure it out for yourself.
Secondly, it is useful (in my opinion) to think of all investing and trading as a zero-sum game, even if a lot of people will disagree and even if it is not absolutely true. It just helps to think lika that.
Therefore (in my opinion), whenever I make a profit, somebody has to lose.
Now who do you think that will be in my case and yours?
What is it that I know that the loser doesn't?
What if he has read more books or better ones?
Again, just think about this for yourself.

What I'm cautiously suggesting to you is that you should perhaps not jump into day-trading just yet.
I don't think you can read a book about it or watch a guy on youtube tell you what to do and be successful.

That's all for the moment - I want to watch Survivor on channel 99


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## Julia (4 December 2014)

Habakkuk said:


> Secondly, it is useful (in my opinion) to think of all investing and trading as a zero-sum game, even if a lot of people will disagree and even if it is not absolutely true. It just helps to think lika that.
> Therefore (in my opinion), whenever I make a profit, somebody has to lose.




I'm not sure why it would be helpful to take such a view?  How does it help you to think in those terms?

Why would you necessarily consider that for you to make a profit someone else has to lose?

That someone might well have bought way below the price at which they are selling.
They might have reached their % profit target and be selling at pre-determined price.
With cash rates so low, the money might be parked in shares because of potential capital gain on top of far greater yield than offered for cash at bank.
Perhaps saving for house deposit and time is right to make house purchase.

A thousand different reasons.

Once you start introducing emotional rationales into buying and selling, you're losing sight of the basic reason for investing/trading, ie to make a profit.

Don't worry about who might be on the other end of your trade.  It's irrelevant.  Someone has put up their holding for sale:  if you can acquire it for the price you determine, then that's all there is to it.
Don't over-complicate things.


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## Habakkuk (5 December 2014)

Julia said:


> I'm not sure why it would be helpful to take such a view?  How does it help you to think in those terms?





Because I know that I'm up against some very smart people including some on this forum. Trading and investing is a very competitive business. Many people believe they can just subscribe to a newsletter or do a course or (dare I say it?) study a little T/A or F/A and make a lot of money. Also, please note that I said "in my opinion" - most people will disagree with me, I know that.




> Why would you necessarily consider that for you to make a profit someone else has to lose?





Don't you believe trading (and investing) is a zero-sum game, in reality a negative-sum game after brokerage and spread?




> That someone might well have bought way below the price at which they are selling.
> They might have reached their % profit target and be selling at pre-determined price.
> With cash rates so low, the money might be parked in shares because of potential capital gain on top of far greater yield   than offered for cash at bank.
> Perhaps saving for house deposit and time is right to make house purchase.
> ...





You make a good point. No argument from me. But it goes with my other belief above. If I believe that the buyers and sellers before and after me all make a profit and I do too, it's starting to look easy. And it's definitely not. But as you know, I'm not speaking from experience.

I was also trying to caution grah33 about day-trading, that IS a negative- or zero-sum game




> Once you start introducing emotional rationales into buying and selling, you're losing sight of the basic reason for investing/trading, ie to make a profit.





Nothing emotional about it. Game theory. Maybe a little logic.




> Don't worry about who might be on the other end of your trade. It's irrelevant. Someone has put up their holding for sale: if you can acquire it for the price you determine, then that's all there is to it.
> Don't over-complicate things.





... and here you go again, lecturing and giving orders.


----------



## tech/a (5 December 2014)

Cant be bothered making a long winded reply---but perhaps this "For Dummies" maybe of interest to you.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/day-traders-work-in-a-zerosum-environment.html



> Don't worry about who might be on the other end of your trade. It's irrelevant. Someone has put up their holding for sale: if you can acquire it for the price you determine, then that's all there is to it.
> *Don't over-complicate things*.




An experienced comment and I definitely agree with the highlighted section. That's what your doing and it is Irrelevant.



> ... and here you go again, lecturing and giving orders.




Oh I see you want to be with the "Popular kids"

You're really Dale Carnegie!-----Right!


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## McLovin (5 December 2014)

Habakkuk said:


> Don't you believe trading (and investing) is a zero-sum game, in reality a negative-sum game after brokerage and spread?




Investing is not a zero sum game and depending what you're trading neither is trading. It's not about what one believes it's about what is fact.


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## Julia (5 December 2014)

Habakkuk said:


> Also, please note that I said "in my opinion" - most people will disagree with me, I know that.



Well, at least you got that bit right.


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## grah33 (5 December 2014)

and if  anyone knows some cool beginner sources that have all the stuff one needs to know to get up and running with day trading, let me know.

my original question, about day trading, was: Just wondering, what does the process involve for finding stock to buy and hold and soon after trade (day trading )? how does one go about it? i'm at home (for various reasons can't work) so maybe this might suit me.

(thanks for the dummies day trading link. don't know if that's a comprehensive source for ozzie asx day traders, but will investigate)


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## tech/a (5 December 2014)

grah33 said:


> and if  anyone knows some cool beginner sources that have all the stuff one needs to know to get up and running with day trading, let me know.
> 
> my original question, about day trading, was: Just wondering, what does the process involve for finding stock to buy and hold and soon after trade (day trading )? how does one go about it? i'm at home (for various reasons can't work) so maybe this might suit me.
> 
> (thanks for the dummies day trading link. don't know if that's a comprehensive source for ozzie asx day traders, but will investigate)




a day trader is a day trader.

Stock you need a fair bit of capital to make it work---if your good at it.
If you can pull say 1% a day you'll need around 50K if you get it right 1/2 the time.
Day trading is simply buying and selling in the same day.
It was really adopted by many to reduce overnight risk.

To become competent I think you'd need about 2 yrs of experience and education.

Learn how to Sim trade first to avoid Bankruptcy! Learn how to trade.
If you simply gamble--guess with no knowledge of risk mitigation and what your doing. 
*You WILL get cleaned out!*


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## grah33 (12 December 2014)

thx everyone for all the advice. i'm getting more and more of it. i played the game, and you guys are right, it was just a lucky week. the hot gains securities aren't always winners.

i'm now looking at technical analyses. if i learnt all that stuff (charting and technicals), could i make some money? even just a small income, say 150-300 bucks per week?   if anyone knows any other resources for day trading the asx let me know.  i'm at home (can't work due to illness) so this could be a path for me i'm thinking.


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## Funda-Struck (22 December 2014)

pixel said:


> In regard of conditional orders, I will however urge caution, Personally, I never set an automatic order where I leave it up to a broker's operator or computer system to execute a sell order. At your current state of study, it would probably take too much time to explain the details: searching this Forum for "stop raids" might give a clue.





Hey Pixel,
I can't seem to find "stop raids" on a search, do you have a link? Sounds interesting, as I have always used conditionals.

thanks mate


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## castart (6 January 2015)

*List of essentially considerable problems for newb*

hi i'm foreign who live in aussie now.


when i lived in my country, i was ant who profit with small amount money in stock.

in my country, it can be possible. because my country's brokerage is really small compared with price of stock price.(i think it is the reason that stock market is very popular => many people pay brokerage => small price)

and also there is no minimum asset that government decided for stocking. 

but in this country, really expensive is the brokerage.




so what i want to ask is...



1. minimum asset for stocking (mean not "should have", but "must have")

2. minimum brokerage is really 8~15$? is there no broker for ant(small amount investor)?




i will really happy if you answer my question..


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## burglar (6 January 2015)

*Re: List of essentially considerable problems for newb*



castart said:


> ...
> 1. minimum asset for stocking (mean not "should have", but "must have")
> 
> 2. minimum brokerage is really 8~15$? is there no broker for ant(small amount investor)? ...



Hi castart,
Welcome to ASF!

A1.) AUD$500.00 is the minimum amount of a single 'buy' transaction.

http://www.asx.com.au/education/investor-update-newsletter/20110310_asx_qa.htm

A2.) To get lower brokerage, you need to trade volume.
So sorry, there is no broker for ants.


----------



## burglar (6 January 2015)

*Re: List of essentially considerable problems for newb*



castart said:


> ... when i lived in my country, i was ant ...




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echidna


----------



## monkey619 (18 June 2015)

Hi. I'm 24 and saved up a little over 100k. I recently invested 27k into ETFs of which a couple offer dividend reinvestment schemes. Apart from the complicated record keeping, what do people think about these? I don't particularly need the money from the dividends and this seems a cost effective way to grow my portfolio by avoiding brokerage fees. Or would I be better to keep the dividends and reinvest in other assets rather than grow what I currently have?


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## Wysiwyg (18 June 2015)

monkey619 said:


> Hi. I'm 24 and saved up a little over 100k.



Let's see. You're a tertiary educated professional that spent 4 years getting qualified to earn a living. So from end of high school, 18 to 22 yo. In 2 years earning since being qualified you have saved over 100k. That is extremely hard to believe and I don't.


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## monkey619 (19 June 2015)

Wysiwyg said:


> That is extremely hard to believe and I don't.




Graduated as a health professional and went to work in the bush where there is heaps of money to be made and very little to spend it on. I've been working for 2.5 years now. Maybe more believable now  But thats irrelevant to my question, is there anyone who had any advice on my original post?


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## Wysiwyg (21 June 2015)

monkey619 said:


> Graduated as a health professional and went to work in the bush where there is heaps of money to be made and very little to spend it on. I've been working for 2.5 years now. Maybe more believable now  But thats irrelevant to my question, is there anyone who had any advice on my original post?



Well with no food or accommodation expenses, no telephone, gas or electricity bills, no car/fuel expenses and no health or property insurance payments you should be a millionaire by your thirties. 

P.S. I think the ETF DRP is a great idea for long term investment. You are on the right track.


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## monkey619 (22 June 2015)

Wysiwyg said:


> P.S. I think the ETF DRP is a great idea for long term investment. You are on the right track.




Thanks. Will be moving back into the city soon so will have increased expenses and 30% drop in pay so millionaire by thirty is unlikely. But we shall see.


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## adnie (23 August 2015)

I thought I'd revive this thread a bit with a couple of questions I have.

I'm a newbie to the market and have spent the last few months reading books on technical analysis and teaching myself as much as I can.

But reading so many books also means I have absorbed quite a lot of information and have so many different ideas in my head. For example the Stain Weinstein book on stage analysis I really liked, but then there are different books that explain different things and an unlimited different amount of approaches towards making technical analysis work for you.

My question is towards people who have found success using technical analysis.

Anyone on this forum who is now successful with trading obviously would have started in my position at one point, before finding their way. So I guess my question is how did you find the approach you use now? Have you tried any other approaches? Are you continually fine tuning your system? How do you deal with bear markets like we are currently undergoing now?

Thanks in advance


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## tech/a (23 August 2015)

adnie said:


> I thought I'd revive this thread a bit with a couple of questions I have.
> 
> My question is towards people who have found success using technical analysis.
> 
> ...




Now I trade index futures. DAX 
I can't trade short and long
When I want to no more than a few hrs
A week.
Traded technically for 21 yrs. Did many years of " Fine Tuning "
spent years studying everything from conventional T/A to Elliott
Point and Figure VSA  finally settled on
Price structure and volume structure.

Risk management and trade management.
You'll know when you " get it"
it just clicks .


----------



## adnie (23 August 2015)

tech/a said:


> Now I trade index futures. DAX
> I can't trade short and long
> When I want to no more than a few hrs
> A week.
> ...




Thanks for your reply tech/a

As a newbie, I'm just looking at trading long at the moment and focusing only on stocks, but would like to trade CFD's and maybe Futures in the future, but I won't touch those instruments until I am competent at trading stocks first.

When you first began trading, or were in the position I am in now, did you ever have the feeling of "ahhhh this is too hard, I want to give up" type of thing? And if so, what helped you push through and continue on until you got to the point where 'it clicked' as you mentioned above?

Reason I say that is because many years ago, about 4-5yrs or so, I first had a go at the sharemarket using fundamental analysis. I did ok, nothing special, but did not have all that much money to invest and ended getting bored and stopping. This time around I'm a lot more focused, have saved up a substantial amount of money to set aside specifically for trading and I feel now I have enough basic knowledge to get on the right path and succeed.

I just like hearing stories of people who have been where I am now and succeeded, and what drove them to push through the barriers and succeed.


----------



## tech/a (23 August 2015)

I guess the biggest issue for me was the initial in consistencies in profit.
Wins losses/stagnation.
Really my break through came when I spent 3 yrs systems developing.
Tech trader is known and is published in Radges book " Un holy Grails "

Here I found out what works and how it works.
Refining risk and trade management certainly added to the tree of knowledge.

Watching Radges over 20 yrs hasn't been a disadvantage either.

Realizing that if your trading technically you actually trading the phsycology 
Of the market participants being recorded on a price and volume chart changed
The way I ready the story a chart reveals.
Developing my own version of VSA gave me the tools to anticipate forward price action

Risk mitigation and trade management gave me the tools to survive.

You'll have to investigate a lot that you don't need before you discover that which you do need!


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## Triathlete (23 August 2015)

adnie said:


> I'm a newbie to the market and have spent the last few months reading books on technical analysis and teaching
> 
> My question is towards people who have found success using technical analysis.
> 
> ...




After starting out as a fundamental investor I now use Technical analysis to back up the fundamentals and I never place a trade without reading/analysing a chart first.

I mainly trade medium term using a combination of Price, Pattern and Time analysis and am successful with this way of trading. 

I did some courses to understand how all three types of analysis improves your probabilities of being successful and so far so good.

Elliott wave,Gann and Fibonacci are some of the strategies and tools I use.


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## shank (29 September 2015)

Hi All,

Posted in the introduction thread, but saw this later and thought i would paste my questions here as well!! 

My name's Shashank (please call me Shank!!), i am 26 years old and an absolute newbie when it comes to investing.

I have recently taken charge of my finances and want to improve on them.

I currently have a property that is rented out and negatively geared, but am looking into managed funds/ ETF's.
I am looking at putting approximately 2k into VHY (for the regular income) and have another 2k to put into another.

Any suggestions on where to go or thoughts on going with VHY?

Also how would investing in this affect my negative gearing, i am in the 80k tax bracket.

Thanks in advance!


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## Tom32 (12 October 2015)

Brokerage question:

I have this far made 3 trades with my new Macquarie account. One into an oil etf one back out and then trying to buy an extremely small cap gold explorer.

I have been in the queue to buy this for about 2 weeks and now today at front of queue I have bought a small portion of my trade for about 260dollars... 260,000 shares. Macquarie have sent me a trade confirm at cob today with the 19dollar brokerage. I am not clear on what happens tomorrow if I get 6 takers each selling 60dollars each. Then next day same etc. I am considering pulling my order as This seems to be a risk that cannot be quantified? The share used to be worth more so lots of smallish parcels about.

After today It seems clear I will pay per day there is a trade. Am I likely to pay each individual trade as well?


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## Gringotts Bank (12 October 2015)

Tom32 said:


> Brokerage question:
> 
> I have this far made 3 trades with my new Macquarie account. One into an oil etf one back out and then trying to buy an extremely small cap gold explorer.
> 
> ...




Not sure of Macquarie's rules, but it's likely you will only pay $19 to enter your full position.  If you're at the top of the buyer's queue, then you may get filled tomorrow or subsequent days (for no extra brokerage). Alternatively, the share price may head upwards from tomorrow and you'll be left with the bulk of your order un-filled.  You can still sell your 260000 shares and cancel the unfilled portion at any stage.  Or you can leave the un-filled order un-filled and hope that the price revisits that level at some stage in the future.


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## Tom32 (13 October 2015)

Thanks gringots, that's comforting it is at least unlikely. ComSec used to be one per order but tonight when I saw the trade confirm along with the 19dollar brokerage for 260bucks worth of shares I panicked that this would occur each time a portion fills out. I don think back in the day I ever got partially filled over a day.

Especially upon researching it trying to get an answer on Macquarie, which I haven't confirmed but your post means I will sleep tonight at least. Am ringing in morning to be safe though. 

Having discovered other brokers during my research in Google "multiple trades in one stock in one day" who offer multiple trades in one day (diff prices buy n sell in one stock all day for one fee.) this would leave me open to some nut bag (who wanted his Macquarie bank bonus) could place 100sell orders (or worse.....) at market for 1000 shares each and cost me 2k (or 40million dollars, which I don't have, if they really took the Pi##) and sold 2m times 1 share for a bit of a laugh... 

Did think it was unlikely am glad it sounds like from your post it would at least be unusual.


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## Tom32 (13 October 2015)

Rang Macquarie this morning to confirm. Only 1 brokerage per order which they levy on the first trade made under the order so the 20 odd dollars they took yesterday will be the only 20dollars they will levy on this order.

They will not levy another unless I change the order.

It seems the definition of trade and order are different and if I had read the fine print with that understanding i would have been able to tell this from the t and c.


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## VeryGreen (27 November 2015)

*Franked Dividens.*

Hello,
I think this is the logical place to post my question.

A bloke I used to work with once told me that he started to really do well once he found out about how well franked dividends could work for you.

Well, being a beginner and very green... I thought I would try and do some research but I still don't understand the point. I can not see how they could help someone build wealth any more than if they were not franked and I was hoping someone could explain it to me.

Below is how I see it which is probably wrong so if anyone has the time could they please set me strait?

Franked:
Company A makes $100 profit per share and distributes that to the shareholders after paying 30% company tax fully franked. So as I understand it share holder gets $70/share with a tax credit of $30
Share holder is in a 40% tax bracket.
Share holder pays 40% of the $70+$30 profit ($40)
Come tax time its calculated that the company already paid $30 so the shareholder just has to pay $10
$70-$10=$60

Unfranked:
As above but no tax is paid by company, $100/share is distributed to the shareholders
Share holder pays 40%
100-40=$60

I'm obviously missing something here. I read somewhere that if you have a lower income you would actually get a partial refund from the tax department but even that makes no sense in my little mixed up head. From what I have read and twisted around in my knogen it looks like the refund your getting is equal to what you would have got if the div was unfranked? 

If I ever make money from shares outside of super, I think it will be the biggest fluke.


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## BALIBOY57 (20 July 2016)

*newbie*

i have share that i want to cash in is there someone that can help me do this or how do i go bought this


----------



## AlexFyfe (30 August 2016)

Hey Guys

Newbie to stock trading but not to investing and forex trading. I have a question based around what happens to stock prices when the dividend of that stock is paid. I have read that the price will generally drop by the amount of the dividend, is this mostly the case? If so why wouldn't people short sell the stock or buy put options on the stock just before the dividend is to be released and then sell their position when it has depreciated by the dividend amount?

Any advice on this matter would be a great help.


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## captain black (30 August 2016)

AlexFyfe said:


> I have read that the price will generally drop by the amount of the dividend, is this mostly the case?




Generally speaking, yes.



AlexFyfe said:


> If so why wouldn't people short sell the stock or buy put options on the stock just before the dividend is to be released and then sell their position when it has depreciated by the dividend amount?




I don't know anything about options but in the case of CFD's if you hold a short position the amount of the dividend is deducted so there would be no net gain.


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## AlexFyfe (30 August 2016)

captain black said:


> Generally speaking, yes.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know anything about options but in the case of CFD's if you hold a short position the amount of the dividend is deducted so there would be no net gain.




Ah yes, if you are short on the stock, I believe you owe the dividend. Options could possibly be a way of making profit out of these predictable price moves. Something I will look into.

Thanks for your help


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## cynic (30 August 2016)

AlexFyfe said:


> Ah yes, if you are short on the stock, I believe you owe the dividend. Options could possibly be a way of making profit out of these predictable price moves. Something I will look into.
> 
> Thanks for your help




The more predictable scenarios are usually more challenging for the simple reason that your competitors have the same advantage, namely the predictability of the situation.


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## Flinky (30 August 2016)

I have a question not sure if could do with a new thread, but the yahoo finance historical data has something called "adjusted close". From what I understand, that's stuff like dividends and splits accounted for.

Does the old data get updated or something? Like the Telstra stock has it in the $1 mark a few years ago which is half the price of the actual stock.

Is that calculated on the day or does a new dividend change every single old adjusted stock price?


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## ryan11 (15 September 2016)

Why always there exists a difference between bid and ask ? 
What are the factors that determine spread and on what currency pairs spread is minimum ?


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## kefa (15 September 2016)

Flinky said:


> Is that calculated on the day or does a new dividend change every single old adjusted stock price?




Different data vendors have different ways of doing this but Yahoo finance will basically subtract every new dividend from the historical price so you get a "smooth" price series. So yes it will adjust historical data every time there is a new dividend. For big paying dividend stocks this process can result in prices which are very low that never really occurred.


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## cynic (16 September 2016)

ryan11 said:


> Why always there exists a difference between bid and ask ?...




What do you envisage happening when the bid and ask are the same?

Would a trade not ensue?

Would both parties need to continue bidding/asking after having completed their trade?

As for your question regarding spreads on currency pairs, it might be better to spend time observing the major pairs in order to gain an appreciation of typical spreads and their behaviour. A general rule of thumb (when seeking tighter market spreads) might be to focus on the more highly liquid markets.


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## aik (12 October 2016)

I was wondering if I bought $500 of wow stock at $24 per share and the shares went up 0.54 % today what amount of profit would i make i know it sounds like a stupid question but just starting to learn about stock market


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## cynic (12 October 2016)

aik said:


> I was wondering if I bought $500 of wow stock at $24 per share and the shares went up 0.54 % today what amount of profit would i make i know it sounds like a stupid question but just starting to learn about stock market




Unless your brokerage costs are less than $2.70 (i.e. 500 Ã— 0.0054) , you wouldn't be in profit.


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## lockscombi (27 October 2016)

Hey everyone

I have read in a book that the optimal volume you want to see upon a breakout is usually at least 2x the average volume (Insider trading). 

It dawned on me today that with the ASX, it would be tiny compared to the American market. Does that mean that a visual indicator of volume would not apply here in the Australian market? 

Do we still see those kind of 2x, 3x even 4x type volumes, or is it more like 1.5x etc etc

Cheers


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## Gringotts Bank (27 October 2016)

lockscombi said:


> Hey everyone
> 
> I have read in a book that the optimal volume you want to see upon a breakout is usually at least 2x the average volume (Insider trading).
> 
> ...




I don't think it makes much difference. If anything, a lower volume breakout is preferable.

from Bulkowski's http://thepatternsite.com/VolumeStudy.html

*Volume Study: Closing Position

After a high volume breakout, the move isn't much better than after a low volume breakout, failures increase (many are taught to avoid a low volume breakout), and the likelihood of a throwback or pullback triples. Throwbacks or pullbacks rob the stock of momentum and performance suffers.*


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## CanOz (27 October 2016)

I reckon that one reason higher volume breakouts might fail is due to the degree of shorts that were squeezed out. This may look good but if there is no follow through then it was just that, short covering.

Now a throwback or retest that gets some volume, that would be interesting to test.


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## lockscombi (27 October 2016)

Thank you, that's very interesting


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## CanOz (27 October 2016)

lockscombi said:


> Thank you, that's very interesting




What that might look like on a daily chart could be a number of things, but a narrow ranging bar or candle at the retest level with above average volume would get my attention.


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## tajid (8 April 2017)

I've read how after a stock pays out dividend its share price goes down by the dividend amount, is that true? If so then dividend doesn't sound that favourable.


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## tajid (8 April 2017)

Can't seem to edit my post. But found the answer to my question above


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## SilverXX90 (1 July 2017)

Hello Aussiestockforums!

I am an absolutely newbie share market investor. I'm a kiwi and we don't appear to have much of an online presence for share trading discussions here and this forum was recommended. I take it a few kiwi's are on here also?

I am completely new to share trading and want to buy some stock on the NZX50, I've just recently completed and have an ANZ Securities account. I've been researching a bit but there is a lot to grasp. I've decided investing in an ETF would be appropriate for a longer term investment and am thinking probably the FNZ Top 50 Fund... Any ETF traders here? What was your approach?

Of course people recommend to diversify your investment profile also where is where I'm a little stuck.  I'm interested in short term trading and trading for income via dividends also but aren't really sure where to go with that. Can anyone offer any advice? Would be much appreciated.

Now I'm so newbie that I don't understand how to place an order! I've put some funds into my ANZ Securities account and I'm thinking maybe the sooner I get an ETF up running the better... Thing is I don't even understand how to place an order! For example, on the Buy Order page I've chosen FNZ which is the TOP 50 Fund ETF. Then I have to choose a quantity and a price limit, what? What is the quantity and price limit? Here is the blurb from ANZ on price limit:

"Price Limit
When placing an order, this is the price you are not willing to pay more than if buying or receive less than if selling.
ANZ Securities will accept the best price available if it is within or equal to your specified Price Limit."

I still don't really get that... How do I work the quantity out? The Quote is 228 cents. Expiration I assume I choose until cancelled as I plan to just leave this...

I appreciate the help for a newbie and I look forward to getting started in shares!


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## pixel (1 July 2017)

Welcome on board, Silver 
yes, well - you are a newbie, but then again, we all were once. So, don't let that discourage you to persist, ask questions, and learn.
Obviously, I can't give you a considered opinion about the quality, outlook, or otherwise, of FNZ. I trust you have done your homework and formed an opinion as to why you want to buy some and how much you want to invest and what kind of profit you reckon you can reasonably expect. 
On the flip side, however, you should also consider the likelihood of the trade going pear-shaped. How much pain can you stand? When would you be better off to cut your losses and preserve as much as possible of your invested capital?
Those two consideration must always go hand-in-hand.

Now to the technical bits of ordering:
So, you know the current quote for one unit of FNZ is 228c. Do your sums (or multiplications). 1,000 units would cost $2,280, plus brokerage - that's the amount ANZ will charge you to buy those shares for you and hold them in your name.
Want to buy only $2,000 worth? No problem: Buy 120 less. So, that's your quantity.
If you want to buy at the quoted price, you will set the "limit" price at $2.28. Or you could hope to get them a little cheaper, bidding $2.25. That's your decision.

Once they're yours, don't ignore watching them and tracking the progress. While it's true that nothing moves up in a straight line, it must also be remembered that not every stock goes up forever. So, even if a share holding has gone up and is in profit, I will consider taking the money - plus gain - off the table if I notice it's starting to turn. Check out the charting section at your ANZ trading website. Or pick any free charting package, e.g. http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=nz:fnz&insttype=&freq=1&show=&time=7 to see how your stock is faring.

Good luck and many happy profits.


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## SilverXX90 (3 July 2017)

Hi Pixel,

Thanks for the welcoming.

The FNZ is an ETF comprising of the top 50 NZ companies. My understanding is that an ETF is suitable as a long term investment spreading the risk etc. 

Great the ordering makes sense and I placed an order today. I put a bid in of $2.25 which is valid for 28 days, question is what determines whether they accept my bid? Should you always only hope for a little cheaper?

The part about watching, tracking and selling if you hint a turn is about to happen, is that more applicable to stocks in single companies rather than ETF's? 

Wow I feel like I have so many questions, should I direct my newbie questions to this thread for the time being? Can anyone tell me how income and dividend shares work? It's something I'm also interested in. Do these deal more in bonds and paying interest rather than tracking a company or ETF?


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## Indoril (5 July 2017)

I always put a limit of a point or two above the last price depending on the quantity and liquidity of the stock. This way it will get filled quicker.


SilverXX90 said:


> what determines whether they accept my bid?



They will accept your order and it will be filled when someone else enters an order to sell at that price.

I don't know a lot about ETF's compared to stocks but I imagine you would want to keep an eye on it somewhat. Like pixel said, you have to know how much you are willing to allow the value of the ETF to drop before you cut your losses. So consider entering a stop loss order to protect yourself. Although having said that, a company's value can always reach 0 whereas an ETF shouldn't...but still, I'd have a stop loss.
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/stop-lossorder.asp
Not sure if ANZ allow you to enter stop loss or conditional orders.


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## SilverXX90 (10 July 2017)

Thanks Indoril. So is it always realistic to only put a bid in a few cents below the current sell price? 

I've decided to do my ETF trading through a place called Smartshares which allows ongoing monthly payments into the fund without brokerage fees. 

I'm interested in trading normal stocks also but have no idea where to start. Do we trade normal stocks more for short term gains? Can you give some starting tips for normal stock trading? Do I look at companies that are potentially high gainers?


----------



## Wysiwyg (10 July 2017)

SilverXX90 said:


> I'm interested in trading normal stocks also but have no idea where to start.



Then don't until you do have an idea. Search for Nick Radge - Successful Stock Trading - as a reality. As a beginner you probably won't understand the guidance but if you try to practice it with an electronic/paper test then it will become clearer. Give yourself time to absorb.


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## pixel (11 July 2017)

SilverXX90 said:


> Thanks Indoril. So is it always realistic to only put a bid in a few cents below the current sell price?
> 
> I've decided to do my ETF trading through a place called Smartshares which allows ongoing monthly payments into the fund without brokerage fees.
> 
> I'm interested in trading normal stocks also but have no idea where to start. Do we trade normal stocks more for short term gains? Can you give some starting tips for normal stock trading? Do I look at companies that are potentially high gainers?



Hi again, Silver;
I have to agree with Wysiwyg: Don't buy something you don't know anything about.
That holds true for all kinds of financial instruments, be they stocks, ETFs, Futures, or Bonds. From your initial query I got the impression that you had already formed an opinion of the FNZ and wanted to participate in its expected rise. Why else would you want to buy? Paying too much and watching the value fall lower is a Mug's Game 

If you know of a share (which really is a part-ownership in a company) where you have a good understanding of what the company is doing, and you are reasonably confident they will continue to do well, then by all means buy some. The process itself is the same as with your ETF: Study the recent trading, know bids and offers, liquidity and daily course of trading in their shares. If you then still want to buy some in order to watch your money grow at a better rate than bank interest - buy some. But be aware that an ongoing rise is never guaranteed, and be prepared to sell - regardless whether with a profit or a small loss. If the share price turns from a rising trend to a drop, *selling for a small loss beats waiting and copping a much bigger loss.*


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## SilverXX90 (8 August 2017)

Hi guy's,

Sorry for the late reply, I get quite busy on forums sometimes.

I have read about the FNZ ETF and it is positively talked about with rises expected. In fact price history charts show a very steady rise over 5 years. I have brought into it. 

I'm starting to realise the importance of researching companies and the overall market trend. We have a NZ trading forum that has a lot of discussions but is difficult to sign up for, but with the information that is available I can see what companies and trends are being talked about and then make a personal decision on whether to buy a company. I have got my feet wet and brought my first individual company shares in a retail company. 

It is talked about that you should try to diversify your portfolio into to foreign markets also which are more robust. There is not a lot of discussion around ETF's especially the Australian Top 20 (OZY). I think this is the ASX 20 on the ASX? Has the ASX 20 not been so good of late? Would it be worth getting into for some Australian exposure? A lot of people seem to like the US 500 (Vanguard) so that is another I will look into.

I find the ASX website difficult to navigate, how can I get a market run down as I do on the nzx website?


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## _neon_reflected (17 September 2017)

Hi Everyone,

My wife has started to trade recently via Plus500 as recommended to her from a friend at her work. After showing a month of positive trades on a trial account, we placed a cautious $200 into a real account. She mostly trades ASX-200, buying into it many mornings, selling mid-morning or (depending on her feeling, the news, her available time to watch the market) early afternoon. 

After 3 months, she had a clear $1,500 in the account. We had a financial emergency, so pulled out 1K, and in the past 2 months she took the account from $500 to $2,500.

This got my attention.

I started looking into this, and realized that she was heavily using leverage. If a trade goes poor, will this ever take more from us than what we have in the Plus500 account?

Plus500 seems to be fairly limited, are there better platforms (? terminology)

My wonderful wife spends a good 30-45 minutes at the end of the night putting all the movements of the day into Excel along with her activity. She compares this the next day to help generate her position. Is there an automatic way to do this?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## tech/a (17 September 2017)

Bronte?


----------



## cynic (17 September 2017)

_neon_reflected said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> ...
> I started looking into this, and realized that she was heavily using leverage. If a trade goes poor, will this ever take more from us than what we have in the Plus500 account?



When trading with leverage, the potential to incur losses greater than the funds in one's account certainly exists. Some FSPs (Financial Service Providers) may have policies in place which allow forgiveness of account deficits, within a specified limit.
However, in the absence of written communication to the contrary, it is more prudent for leveraged traders to presume themselves fully liable for any account deficits that  may occur.
Market gaps, illiquidity and/or technological issues, are amongst just a few of the banes of the leveraged trader. Such events, can at times prevent timely extrication, of the trader from market exposure, during highly unfavourable moves.



> Plus500 seems to be fairly limited, are there better platforms (? terminology)



There are a number of other CFD providers offering services within Australia, many of which offer free demo accounts via which a prospective new client may investigate the platform features on offer.
In choosing a provider, it is important to remember that, the vast majority of providers are offering OTC CFDs. Many such providers have earned a reputation for deriving greater profits by betting against their own customers. This might not be too much of a problem, if it were not for the fact that the client agreement documentation usually contains clauses allowing the provider(rather than an exchange traded market) to decide the reference price of their CFD products.


> My wonderful wife spends a good 30-45 minutes at the end of the night putting all the movements of the day into Excel along with her activity. She compares this the next day to help generate her position. Is there an automatic way to do this?
> 
> Thanks in advance!




There might be ways in which your wife's process could be partially (or perhaps even fully) automated. Things to consider would be, the electronic sources of the information, available tools for importation, of relevant data, from those sources, into a spreadsheet, and ways in which an excel user might record (or write in VBA) excel macros that can perform the rest of the process.


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## Wysiwyg (17 September 2017)

_neon_reflected said:


> Hi Everyone,
> After 3 months, she had a clear $1,500 in the account. We had a financial emergency, so pulled out 1K, and in the past 2 months she took the account from $500 to $2,500.



Your CFD platform would have a trade history. Any chance of posting that because profit and loss on each trade tells a lot?


----------



## _neon_reflected (17 September 2017)

tech/a said:


> Bronte?



Hey, can you explain this please? Sorry!


----------



## _neon_reflected (17 September 2017)

Wysiwyg said:


> Your CFD platform would have a trade history. Any chance of posting that because profit and loss on each trade tells a lot?



My wife uses the Plus500 app... I have never even looked at it. Can you tell me how to do this? I mean, I can screenshot the app, but besides that???


----------



## _neon_reflected (17 September 2017)

Ok... I've just spoken to my wife a little more specifically about this. She's been doing this in the background and I was pretty much taking this as a game or short-lived hobby until recently. We've deposited $200. That's it.

We've pulled out $170 once and $1,500 once and now have $400 in the account. There was a recent loss of around $600 over last week and we've lost that before.

Total timeframe is around 4-5 months. We stopped trading for 7 weeks because we were out of the country, and the app recognized that and didn't allow us to continue until we landed back in Australia. I suggested to my wife to use a VPN at that time, however she rejected the idea.

I don't know if her results are good, bad, or average. Personally, I'm pretty damn happy and proud of her, however I'm a little cautious and conservative. I don't wish to clip her wings here. Neither do I wish to put our finances at risk. 

Also... I'd like to build on her work. 

Forex Peace Army gives Plus500 a crap review. I was hoping that I could get a "Hey, look at...." suggestion here. My own research has led me to look at Blueberry Markets and Ava. I started a free trial account with Blueberry yesterday, and I'll mess around with trading the ASX tomorrow, however that platform looks to be more focused on forex. I like the idea of looking at indices and specific stocks too.

Thanks!


----------



## Wysiwyg (17 September 2017)

_neon_reflected said:


> My wife uses the Plus500 app... I have never even looked at it. Can you tell me how to do this? I mean, I can screenshot the app, but besides that???



My wonderful wife spends a good 30-45 minutes at the end of the night putting all the movements of the day into Excel along with her activity.


----------



## _neon_reflected (17 September 2017)

cynic said:


> When trading with leverage, the potential to incur losses greater than the funds in one's account certainly exists. Some FSPs (Financial Service Providers) may have policies in place which allow forgiveness of account deficits, within a specified limit.
> However, in the absence of written communication to the contrary, it is more prudent for leveraged traders to presume themselves fully liable for any account deficits that  may occur.
> Market gaps, illiquidity and/or technological issues, are amongst just a few of the banes of the leveraged trader. Such events, can at times prevent timely extrication, of the trader from market exposure, during highly unfavourable moves.




Hi Cynic, thanks... I've just finished reading older forum posts and already feel we've chatted already. You've given a wonderfully truthful answer here, however I'd like to know if there is either an answer for the platform mentioned, or if there is specific wording in the ToS I should look out for. Then again, the more I type, the more I realize that ToS agreements change and each company will have their own cleverly worded agreements....

Without going through a lawyer, can I look for specific wording or read an up-to-date honest review site, or even properly word a Google search to gain this information myself? I don't feel right moving forward unless I get at least this part right in my head... can I loose my house if I use leverage?



cynic said:


> There are a number of other CFD providers offering services within Australia, many of which offer free demo accounts via which a prospective new client may investigate the platform features on offer.
> In choosing a provider, it is important to remember that, the vast majority of providers are offering OTC CFDs. Many such providers have earned a reputation for deriving greater profits by betting against their own customers. This might not be too much of a problem, if it were not for the fact that the client agreement documentation usually contains clauses allowing the provider(rather than an exchange traded market) to decide the reference price of their CFD products.




Thank you for mentioning OTC CFDs... I've been reading a lot of terminology and its difficult to determine which acronyms are important.  I seem to also think that your last sentence in this paragraph is something I should specifically look out for...



cynic said:


> There might be ways in which your wife's process could be partially (or perhaps even fully) automated. Things to consider would be, the electronic sources of the information, available tools for importation, of relevant data, from those sources, into a spreadsheet, and ways in which an excel user might record (or write in VBA) excel macros that can perform the rest of the process.




This is not the answer I wanted, but it is great direction. Yes, I suppose I wanted someone to say, "Use Platform X and they do it all for you" however (as I grind my teeth) learning a manual system always has unforeseen benefits. Cheers.


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## Triple B (17 September 2017)

I believe plus 500 is a Market Maker Model [MM] t
hey set their own market prices and may or may not hedge your wifes trades on the actual stock market.
They also may have guaranteed Stop losses which are  major benefit of the Market Maker Model.
The other type is Direct Market Access[DMA] Model
The broker puts an equivalent trade for all your wifes positions on the stock market .
Usually no guaranteed  Stops, possibly slightly higher commission and slightly lower leverage.
I suggest at least one account of each model
May I suggest some reading Here.
http://www.learncfds.com/
Leverage is a two edged sword . great way to start with a small amount  and grow quickly.
also can be wiped out quickly  if risk is not managed well.
You also need to work out costs before  trading   as they can add up  and chew into profits.
Hope this helps. there is plenty of info out there to help you understand these products


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## _neon_reflected (17 September 2017)

Wysiwyg said:


> My wonderful wife spends a good 30-45 minutes at the end of the night putting all the movements of the day into Excel along with her activity.



Does this help?


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## cynic (17 September 2017)

_neon_reflected said:


> Hi Cynic, thanks... I've just finished reading older forum posts and already feel we've chatted already. You've given a wonderfully truthful answer here, however I'd like to know if there is either an answer for the platform mentioned, or if there is specific wording in the ToS I should look out for. Then again, the more I type, the more I realize that ToS agreements change and each company will have their own cleverly worded agreements....
> 
> Without going through a lawyer, can I look for specific wording or read an up-to-date honest review site, or even properly word a Google search to gain this information myself? I don't feel right moving forward unless I get at least this part right in my head... can I loose my house if I use leverage?
> ...



The best advice I can give you, is to first google for independent customer reviews and find out what complaints are typically being made about the various providers, and then upon thus narrowing your candidate list, for each provider in that list, read all the documentation (i.e. PDS,FSG etc.)  outlining the business terms that clients must agree to when opening an account. (Although my research in this area has not been exhaustive, I have yet to discover a single OTC CFD provider , with documentation that doesn't allow the potential for flagrant conflicts of interest to occur!)

In answer to your question regarding the potential to lose one's house - yes!

Here's one news article concerning the plight of some Australian retail FX traders, during the aftermath of a surprise market event:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-12/foreign-exchange-traders-fight-to-save-millions/6087976

Please do not make the error of presuming that it takes extreme market events, like the one mentioned above, for a trader to become financially imperilled via use of leverage.

For example, with 100:1 leverage, a trader of long positions, could quite easily have the misfortune of transforming an account worth $1k, into a loss of up to $99k in the event of unfavourable (outside of market hours) announcements.
And for the trader of short positions, potential losses from adverse out of hours events, are theoretically unlimited (for many markets)!


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## Cam019 (17 September 2017)

Wait. So you deposited $200 cautiously into the real account and then one of the trades was for 100 contracts at 5652 for a total of $56,520 in exposure. 56520/200 = 282.6. Leverage of 282 and you're asking if a trade goes bad, can you loose more than your account size?! Is anyone else deeply concerned? I feel sick.


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## Triathlete (17 September 2017)

Maybe go back and read this thread, we have not heard from Kelly who was a  beginner as well trading  leveraged positions.
My advice would be not to trade leveraged positions until you have been trading at least two years successfully without leverage...

https://aussiestockforums.com/threads/losing-cfd-long-position.31405/page-6


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## Wysiwyg (18 September 2017)

_neon_reflected said:


> Does this help?



Yes that tells 1 contract is worth 10cents x 100 = $10 per point move. Probably on 500 :1 margin. The trade frequency is small indicating good discipline. Keep at it you are doing well. 

 Thank you. It means a lot to me seeing how others trade.


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## HarveyJ (25 September 2017)

Hiya,

I was just wondering whether anyone trades on NYSE?  I have been doing some research, albeit not seriously, and was just wondering how you would go about it if you were in Australia?  What broker would you use and is it even possible?  I understand the time difference would be an issue, but I am also assuming there are taxes and other fees involved?

Would appreciate any information that the experienced traders may have.

Thanks in advance

M


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## alba174 (3 October 2017)

HarveyJ said:


> Hiya,
> 
> I was just wondering whether anyone trades on NYSE?  I have been doing some research, albeit not seriously, and was just wondering how you would go about it if you were in Australia?  What broker would you use and is it even possible?  I understand the time difference would be an issue, but I am also assuming there are taxes and other fees involved?
> 
> ...




************ is definitely an option as it provides $0 brokerage for US trading. They are a new company but a great reliable service. They give access to the US markets with a smooth, hassle-free process.


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## mcgrath111 (1 November 2017)

Hi Yall,

I recently placed a small order on CMC for VGE (An emerging markets ETF). It isn't the most liquid however the order was placed at market around mid day.
The order has 0 filled units. 
Why hasn't this been executed? 

Cheers,


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