# Wall St. warns to begin stockpiling food



## metric (25 April 2008)

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2008/240408_b_food.htm

Darryl Mason
Your New Reality 
Thursday, April 24, 2008

The New York Times recently told its more wealthy readers to consider buying a rural cottage, or even log cabin, to ride out the water and food riots that militarised police forces are preparing and training for, and now Wall Street recommends its readers to begin stockpiling rice and cereals, not only to fend off hunger but as an investment opportunity :


Food prices are already rising here much faster than the returns you are likely to get from keeping your money in a bank or money-market fund. And there are very good reasons to believe prices on the shelves are about to start rising a lot faster.

"Load up the pantry," says Manu Daftary, one of Wall Street's top investors and the manager of the Quaker Strategic Growth mutual fund. "I think prices are going higher. People are too complacent. They think it isn't going to happen here. But I don't know how the food companies can absorb higher costs."


The latest data show cereal prices rising by more than 8% a year. Both flour and rice are up more than 13%. Milk, cheese, bananas and even peanut butter: They're all up by more than 10%. Eggs have rocketed up 30% in a year. Ground beef prices are up 4.8% and chicken by 5.4%.

You can't easily stock up on perishables like eggs or milk. But other products will keep. Among them: Dried pasta, rice, cereals, and cans of everything from tuna fish to fruit and vegetables. The kicker: You should also save money by buying them in bulk.

If this seems a stretch, ponder this: The emerging bull market in agricultural products is following in the footsteps of oil. A few years ago, many Americans hoped $2 gas was a temporary spike. Now it's the rosy memory of a bygone age.

(Article continues below)


The readers of the Wall Street Journal now know it's time to get busy stockpiling. For good reasons. Shortages of rice and other essentials are now being reported in American cities :


Many parts of America, long considered the breadbasket of the world, are now confronting a once unthinkable phenomenon : Major retailers in New York, in areas of New England, and on the West Coast are limiting purchases of flour, rice, and cooking oil as demand outstrips supply. There are also anecdotal reports that some consumers are hoarding grain stocks. 
At a Costco Warehouse in Mountain View, Calif., yesterday, shoppers grew frustrated and occasionally uttered expletives as they searched in vain for the large sacks of rice they usually buy.

"Where's the rice?" an engineer from Palo Alto, Calif., Yajun Liu, said. "You should be able to buy something like rice. This is ridiculous."

"There have been so many stories about worldwide shortages that it encourages people to stock up. What most people don't realize is that supply chains have changed, so inventories are very short," Mr.Rawles , a former Army intelligence officer, said. "Even if people increased their purchasing by 20%, all the store shelves would be wiped out."

An anonymous high-tech professional writing on an investment Web site, Seeking Alpha, said he recently bought 10 50-pound bags of rice..."I am concerned that when the news of rice shortage spreads, there will be panic buying and the shelves will be empty in no time. I do not intend to cause a panic, and I am not speculating on rice to make profit. I am just hoarding some for my own consumption," he wrote.

The presidential Bush family's favourite newspaper, the Washington Times, notes the rapidly growing chaos and panic in American food industries, and the demented greed of Wall Street :

Farmers and food executives appealed fruitlessly to federal officials yesterday for regulatory steps to limit speculative buying that is helping to drive food prices higher. Meanwhile, some Americans are stocking up on staples such as rice, flour and oil in anticipation of high prices and shortages spreading from overseas.

Community Futures Trading Commission (CFTC)....regulators said high prices are mostly the result of soaring world demand for grains combined with high fuel prices and drought-induced shortages in many countries.

Costco and other grocery stores in California reported a run on rice, which has forced them to set limits on how many sacks of rice each customer can buy. Filipinos in Canada are scooping up all the rice they can find and shipping it to relatives in the Philippines, which is suffering a severe shortage that is leaving many people hungry.

While farmers here and abroad generally are benefiting from the high prices, even they have been burned by a tidal wave of investors and speculators pouring into the futures markets for corn, wheat, rice and other commodities and who are driving up prices in a way that makes it difficult for farmers to run their businesses.

U.S. wheat stocks are at the lowest levels in 60 years because worldwide consumption of wheat has exceeded production in six of the past eight years, said U.S. Agriculture Department chief economist GeraldBange . Adding to tight supplies was the back-to-back failure of two years of wheat crops caused by drought in Australia, a major wheat exporter, he said.

In addition, the diversion of one-third of the U.S. corn crop into making ethanol for vehicles has increased prices for corn and other staples such as soybeans and cotton as more acreage is set aside for ethanol production.

The upswing in prices has been exaggerated by the massive influx of investors and speculators seeking to profit from rising prices for corn, wheat, oil, gold and other commodities. Big Wall Street firms and hedge funds have taken huge positions in futures markets that once were dominated by relatively small operators such as farmers and grain-elevator owners.

Oil speculation helped drive the price of a barrel beyond $100, and now 'food speculators' are going to do the same for the food you need to buy to feed your family. And the government doesn't want to stop it happening.

Maybe they're hoping Monsanto with save the day, and bellies, of Americans with GM crops, but the 'miracle' of GM crops is turning out to be little more than clever marketing. Monsanto now admits their genetically modified crops do not actually produce higher yields of rice and grains. More food from less acreage is something they aspire to achieve, not something they can actually do yet.

Food prices will stay high simply because oil prices will never drop below $100 again. It will only ever increase, drop back a few dollars, then increase again. We're already being softened up by oil cartels and governments to expect $200 a barrel prices within the next few years.

When oil hits $150 a barrel, trucking and freight companies will start projecting big losses, and will reconsider whether it pays to service longer, less profitable routes to smaller urban population pockets. The sort of places that need nearly everything trucked in, but produce little to truck back out again. When the delivery trucks slow, or cease altogether, most supermarkets will be emptied of food within a few days.

Soaring food prices, and food shortages, are impacting across the world.

In Japan, people are trying to cope with the savage shock of shortages of staple foods, stunning rises in the price of rice and emptying supermarket shelves :

"I went to another supermarket, and then another, and there was no butter at those either. Everywhere I went there were notices saying Japan has run out of butter. I couldn't believe it.."

Japan's acute butter shortage, which has confounded bakeries, restaurants and now families across the country, is the latest unforeseen result of the global agricultural commodities crisis.

A sharp increase in the cost of imported cattle feed and a decline in milk imports, both of which are typically provided in large part by Australia, have prevented dairy farmers from keeping pace with demand.

While soaring food prices have triggered rioting among the starving millions of the third world, in wealthy Japan they have forced a pampered population to contemplate the shocking possibility of a long-term ”” perhaps permanent ”” reduction in the quality and quantity of its food.

The wealthy can only afford to buy the food that the poor cannot while that food is still available. When supplies run out, they too must either go without, grow their own or pay absurd prices for what was, only last year, so cheap.

How bad could global food shortages ultimately get? The lives of many hundreds of millions who have never known hunger before are threatened.

Will we be reduced to the pitiful state of Haitians, who have been driven by food shortages and extreme hunger to start eating the earth beneath their feet?

...the one business booming amid all the gloom is the selling of patties made of mud, oil and sugar...

“It’s salty and it has butter and you don’t know you’re eating dirt,” said Olwich Louis Jeune, 24, who has taken to eating them more often in recent months. “It makes your stomach quiet down.”

The age of cheap and plentiful food, at least from supermarkets, is clearly over.

All governments need to encourage backyard, and balcony, food gardens. Houses that will never sell and are decaying can be bulldozed to make way for community farms. There are at least two or three dozen villages in England returning to thispre-20th century method of feeding the people and bringing the community together. 

For city dwellers, however, even those with balcony gardens crowded with carrots, tomatoes, herbs, salad greens and citrus trees, the food staples like milk, cooking oil, butter and wheat, however, will continue to grow only more expensive.

The psychological impact for most Americans of seeing food riots in their towns and cities will be immense, and destructive.


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## Sean K (25 April 2008)

*Re: wall st warns to begin stockpiling food*

I'm going out to replace my gold with cornflakes! Now!!


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## metric (25 April 2008)

*Re: Wall St warns to begin stockpiling food*

yes, im today looking at small (100 acre) rural properties in my area. i read somewhere that farmland is a comming investment area. something we havent seen for a while. farmers have been leaving the land. perhaps thats about to change?


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## professor_frink (25 April 2008)

*Re: wall st warns to begin stockpiling food*



kennas said:


> I'm going out to replace my gold with cornflakes! Now!!




I better go out and get a shotgun to protect my veggie patch.

Might go and trade the dogs in for a couple of chickens and a cow


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## professor_frink (25 April 2008)

*Re: wall st warns to begin stockpiling food*



professor_frink said:


> Might go and trade the dogs in for a couple of chickens and a cow




speaking of that, which country would I get the most amount of cows or goats for  Mrs frink


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## metric (25 April 2008)

*Re: wall st warns to begin stockpiling food*



professor_frink said:


> speaking of that, which country would I get the most amount of cows or goats for  Mrs frink





argentina?


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## Aussiejeff (25 April 2008)

*Re: Wall St warns to begin stockpiling food*

Apparently one medium-sized whale can feed a whole big town in Greenland..... 

Sheesh. What a year THIS one is turning out to be. Financial chaos. Climate chaos. Food shortage chaos. Oil price chaos. Looming coal shortage chaos...

Anyone got a "nice" headline?




AJ


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## Smurf1976 (25 April 2008)

*Re: Wall St warns to begin stockpiling food*



Aussiejeff said:


> Sheesh. What a year THIS one is turning out to be. Financial chaos. Climate chaos. Food shortage chaos. Oil price chaos. Looming coal shortage chaos...



The food, oil, coal and to some extent financial situations all come back to the reality that oil rises, peaks and declines and we don't have a viable alternative that is being implemented quickly enough. 

The energy situation is actually worse than many realise. In addition to the well publicised oil, coal and food situations there are issues with nuclear and hydro too. In short, we're using up uranium faster than it's being mined whilst building a lot of new reactors at the same time thus guaranteeing even higher consumption in the future.

With hydro, an unsually large amout of the world's capacity is in trouble due to overproduction in recent years (partly as a means of offsetting the oil and coal situation). South America, New Zealand and the Australian schemes all much the same with system overloads and shrinking lakes. Drought has added to the problems too.

And it gets worse... Anecdotally, there are a lot of reports that European consumers have been effectively draining their heating oil tanks in recent times. That's a form of stock draw that doesn't get officially reported anywhere and is clearly not sustainable. 

In short, we've burnt up, converted to ethanol, emptied or drained just about everything that keeps the wheels turning or the lights on.


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## explod (25 April 2008)

So Global warming, oil shortage, food, you've all named it above boils down to one thing, tooooo  many people.  PEOPLE POLUTION

Nostradarmus made dire predictions that he could not define clearly but that it would happen beyond the year 2000     I believe that more than a predictive seer he just calculated forward population growth, its a no brainer.

Back in the 30s' a long term weather forcaster, Indigo Jones, in predictions that proved fairly accurate said that there would be a very bad drought commencing after the turn of the century (2000), he would not define its length except to say that he could see no end even beyond 1015.   Clearl;y remember my Father talking about this and he had a cutting out of the Weekly times on the wall at the farmhouse for a number of years.   Ironically Dad died during the first bad drought for the Western District in 1969


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## metric (25 April 2008)

there is some consencus amongst doom and gloomers that the date of 2012 has some significance for humanity.


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## Mofra (25 April 2008)

Much of the spike in food price appears to stem from the switch in arable land being used to produce biofuels instead of for food production. At what point does it become far more profitable to produce food than biofuels? 

Thailand are putting tariffs on export rice as the price has skyrocketed this year, there are riots in Northern Africa & Malaysia, perhaps we really are the lucky country - by the time the resources boom begins to wane, we will be exporting grain at ridiculous prices.


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## derty (25 April 2008)

metric said:


> there is some consencus amongst doom and gloomers that the date of 2012 has some significance for humanity.



I think those doom and gloomers just pick a new year every time the last one passes uneventfully.


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## metric (25 April 2008)

derty said:


> I think those doom and gloomers just pick a new year every time the last one passes uneventfully.





well they picked it a long time ago. about 1400 years ago?(my history aint that good) the ancient mayans calender ends that year.

there are other religions or beliefs that concur with that number, but the mayans are the most quoted.


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## Mofra (25 April 2008)

metric said:


> well they picked it a long time ago. about 1400 years ago?(my history aint that good) the ancient mayans calender ends that year.
> 
> there are other religions or beliefs that concur with that number, but the mayans are the most quoted.




Seems the date in 2012 isn't as much about doom & gloom as a "new consciousnous".

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2007-03-27-maya-2012_n.htm


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## metric (25 April 2008)

it depends how its interpreted. and who interprets it. as with share buying choices...


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## Uncle Festivus (25 April 2008)

It's real enough .....



> *NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- Wal-Mart Stores Inc. said its Sam's Club wholesale club chain is limiting the sale of some rice to four bags per member visit because of what it described as "supply and demand trends." *
> 
> 
> Jasmine, basmati and long-grain white rices will be subject to those purchase restrictions, as long as they are allowed by law, in the 594 clubs across the U.S., said Sam's Club spokeswoman Kristy Reed. New Mexico and Idaho are the only two states that forbid such practice, she said.
> ...


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## GreatPig (25 April 2008)

2012 is supposedly the end of the Mayan long count cycle, but it is a cycle: another one starts then too.

GP


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## Smurf1976 (25 April 2008)

derty said:


> I think those doom and gloomers just pick a new year every time the last one passes uneventfully.



The oil situation has been "around the year 2000" for at least half a century now. I'd say they weren't far out since in an overall time perspective 2008 is damn close.

And 2012 has been the supposed date of some disaster for as long as I've heard anyone predict it. They never seem certain as to exactly what it will be though.


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## explod (25 April 2008)

Smurf1976 said:


> The oil situation has been "around the year 2000" for at least half a century now. I'd say they weren't far out since in an overall time perspective 2008 is damn close.
> 
> And 2012 has been the supposed date of some disaster for as long as I've heard anyone predict it. They never seem certain as to exactly what it will be though.




Probably because it looks like being just about everything we can think of.

Now from the optomistic side, if one can survive, the other end of it all may be very good.


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## >Apocalypto< (25 April 2008)

*Re: wall st warns to begin stockpiling food*



kennas said:


> I'm going out to replace my gold with cornflakes! Now!!




u properly get a better return doing that right now kennas.


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## nioka (25 April 2008)

Smurf1976 said:


> The oil situation has been "around the year 2000" for at least half a century now. I'd say they weren't far out since in an overall time perspective 2008 is damn close..



 In the 1950s there was a lot of talk that oil would run out by 1980. In the late 50s oil was found at Moonie and that was going to make us all rich, pity it was a bit of a fizzer. Then came Alaska and the North sea. I think it will taper off for a long time yet but I do not dispute the peak oil proposition. It will just get harder to find and more expensive to produce.
 The same with food. It became uneconomic to farm and the fall in production was due to economics as much as the drought. Rising food prices will see an increase to the point that there will be surplus production in a year or two.


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## metric (25 April 2008)

the food shortage may SOON get a whole lot worse..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOLkze-9GcI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN06JSi-SW8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCXDISLXTaY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQQGFZHSno&feature=related


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## derty (25 April 2008)

I am an advocate of peak oil in the near to very near future and certainly the world has a few big negatives looming that may fundamentally change the way we live in this world. These are all physicals that are gradual, real and public. 

What I find hard to swallow is religious or spiritual predictions of Armageddon based on prophecies, cosmic alignments, quatrains, ancient calendars or whatever mechanism is invoked. Multitudes have been presented and all have failed. I can see no reason why the next crop will not do otherwise. 

As was noted before the 2012 Mayan date is misconstrued anyway:


> The End Times aficionados are so entranced by the thought of this whole new mythology they can pull apocalypses out of, that they've entirely overlooked the itsy-bitsy factoid that 2012 isn't the Mayan date for end of the world, at all. That's not scheduled until sometime in the fiftieth century. 2012 will only mark the end of a calendrical cycle, and as such, a pretty good time to party...well, unless you're an End Times obsessive.



from: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/9941/infinity2.html  (follow some of the links right at the bottom of the page for a wider range)

some more: http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrl2.htm


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## explod (25 April 2008)

I agree and suppose this angle came from my small dissertation on Nostradamus back at about post 3.      

The basic point is that on normal population growth a time could be calculated when the planet is full, thats it, no more room for anymore.


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## metric (25 April 2008)

below is a post from another forum..



> The Mayans believed that the Next Ice Age (Based on Interpretation) will be December 21st 2012...
> 
> The Prophecy of 2012
> 
> ...


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## The Once-ler (25 April 2008)

explod said:


> The basic point is that on normal population growth a time could be calculated when the planet is full, thats it, no more room for anymore.




I think the worlds population has been full twice before.

It was 'full' ten thousand years ago before agriculture began. The nomadic hunter gatherer human populations were kept in check by nature. Then, with agriculture, the populations exploded.

The worlds population was 'full' again in the late 19th century. Famine was common as soil fertility all around the world was depleted and all the natural sources of fertilizer were being used up. Along came oil based chemical nitrogen fertilizer and it saved the day.
http://www.hydro.com/en/About-Hydro/Our-history/1900---1917/1900-On-the-brink-of-famine/
This was the start of the green revolution and along with chemicals and other oil based inputs, food production multiplied many many times over. Problem was, human populations exploded even faster. Agricultural production has been able to keep up until now.

We are now approaching the third time the place is full as peak oil hits. But there is nothing coming this time that can save the day. Nature rules in the end. Humans aren't as smart as we thought.


Luckily, Australia exports two thirds of it's food. We will do OK as production drops off. The US, Canada, and New Zealand will do OK too. You wouldn't want to live in too many other places though.


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## Temjin (25 April 2008)

The Once-ler said:


> Luckily, Australia exports two thirds of it's food. We will do OK as production drops off. The US, Canada, and New Zealand will do OK too. You wouldn't want to live in too many other places though.




That's good to hear, at least we are not relied on imports to keep ourselve fed.  Or maybe it's time I should start stockpiling rices from my local Asian groceries shop. 

It's a little bit over gloom and doom for my tastes. I thought the collapse of the financial market / US dollars aren't gloom enough.


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## Spanning Tree (4 October 2008)

> That's good to hear, at least we are not relied on imports to keep ourselve fed.



I doubt an Australian farmer is going to feed you just because you're Australian. If an American consumer offers more cash, you get no rice.


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## dutchie (4 October 2008)

Government just introduces a large food export tax.


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## tech/a (4 October 2008)

I found this statistic amazing.

*If you placed every human on the planet in a big cube packed like sardines what would be the dimensions of that cube?*

Have a go,I'll post the answer later.


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## wayneL (4 October 2008)

tech/a said:


> I found this statistic amazing.
> 
> *If you placed every human on the planet in a big cube packed like sardines what would be the dimensions of that cube?*
> 
> Have a go,I'll post the answer later.



Presuming one person takes up .25m3, it would be 11.5km cubed?

I heard a different version - that if you gave every family (presuming a family of 4) alive a 600m2 block to live on, they would all fit into NSW.


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## BradK (4 October 2008)

tech/a said:


> I found this statistic amazing.
> 
> *If you placed every human on the planet in a big cube packed like sardines what would be the dimensions of that cube?*
> 
> Have a go,I'll post the answer later.




Great question.. they always say England is overcrowded, but I have NO IDEA where they all are? I fly into Stansted, or drive up to Yorkshire .. and there is no one about. Do they all live underground? 

I await your answer with interest

Brad


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## Wysiwyg (4 October 2008)

A Jehovah Witness told me everyone on the planet could fit on top of Mount Everest.He didn`t mention anything about the logistics though.Probably trying to start another one of those Noah stories.


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## Ageo (4 October 2008)

I have enough game meat in the freezer from this yrs hunting to last me at least 1 year. I chuckle when people say to me "i cant believe your killing an innocent animal".

I dont think life will come to this but as mentioned before if it did i would welcome it with open arms. And i also believe alot of people will struggle.


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## tech/a (4 October 2008)

Wysiwyg said:


> A Jehovah Witness told me everyone on the planet could fit on top of Mount Everest.





Leaving of course the Jehovah Witness to inherit the earth!


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## brty (4 October 2008)

With a few assumptions, like us westerners are much bigger than the average staving refugee.

Fitting in like sardines.

Then 6 people per m3 would equal just over 1km3, ie 1000 metres x 1000 metres x 1000 metres.

brty


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## Happy (4 October 2008)

explod said:


> So Global warming, oil shortage, food, you've all named it above boils down to one thing, tooooo  many people.  PEOPLE POLUTION
> 
> Nostradarmus made dire predictions that he could not define clearly but that it would happen beyond the year 2000     I believe that more than a predictive seer he just calculated forward population growth, its a no brainer.




Well, let me say again that 1 child policy from today, would be a good start.

Oh and scrap the baby bonus from today too.


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## Happy (4 October 2008)

Ageo said:


> I have enough game meat in the freezer from this yrs hunting to last me at least 1 year. I chuckle when people say to me "i cant believe your killing an innocent animal".
> 
> I dont think life will come to this but as mentioned before if it did i would welcome it with open arms. And i also believe alot of people will struggle.





Just pray that electricity supply is not interrupted during that time, or get the generator and supply of fuel just in case.


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## tech/a (4 October 2008)

brty said:


> With a few assumptions, like us westerners are much bigger than the average staving refugee.
> 
> Fitting in like sardines.
> 
> ...




Would you like the Fluffy Panda or the Brown bear!
Well done.


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## BradK (4 October 2008)

For us too tired to think could you give us an object lesson, an example, or a picture of what that would look like?


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## Seneca60BC (4 October 2008)

LOL the US going to be a bread basket - looks like we better begin our Cantonese and Hindi language lessons!!


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## Green08 (4 October 2008)

BradK said:


> For us too tired to think could you give us an object lesson, an example, or a picture of what that would look like?




video link:

7 million starved in the Great Depression in USA

http://video.google.com.au/videosea...6AU226&q=food riots wall st&um=1&sa=N&tab=wv#


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## Green08 (4 October 2008)

Famine killed 7 million people in USA - Pravda.Ru

Famine killed 7 million people in USA


Another online scandal has been gathering pace recently. Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, deleted an article by a Russian researcher, who wrote about the USA’s losses in the Great Depression of 1932-1933. Indignant bloggers began to actively distribute the article on the Russian part of a popular blog service known as Livejournal. The above-mentioned article triggered a heated debate.


The researcher touched upon quite a hot topic in the article – the estimation of the number of victims of the Great Depression in the USA. The material presented in the article apparently made Wikipedia’s moderators delete the piece from the database of the online encyclopedia.


The researcher, Boris Borisov, in his article titled “The American Famine” estimated the victims of the financial crisis in the US at over seven million people. The researcher also directly compared the US events of 1932-1933 with Holodomor, or Famine, in the USSR during 1932-1933.


In the article, Borisov used the official data of the US Census Bureau. Having revised the number of the US population, birth and date rates, immigration and emigration, the researcher came to conclusion that the United States lost over seven million people during the famine of 1932-1933. 
“According to the US statistics, the US lost not less than 8 million 553 thousand people from 1931 to 1940. Afterwards, population growth indices change twice instantly exactly between 1930-1931: the indices drop and stay on the same level for ten years. There can no explanation to this phenomenon found in the extensive text of the report by the US Department of Commerce “Statistical Abstract of the United States,” the author wrote.

http://forum.stirpes.net/historical...le-usa-during-great-depression-new-study.html


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## nioka (4 October 2008)

Spanning Tree said:


> I doubt an Australian farmer is going to feed you just because you're Australian. If an American consumer offers more cash, you get no rice.



I couldn't buy ANY australian rice at woolies last week????? It was all imported.


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## J.B.Nimble (4 October 2008)

brty said:


> With a few assumptions, like us westerners are much bigger than the average staving refugee.
> 
> Fitting in like sardines.
> 
> ...




I know the prize has already been awarded but I think the cube is a bit too big. Assuming the average human has a body density not that different to water (1000kg/m3) then 6 per m3 would be a pretty heavy 165kg average. Global average for men women and children is probably less than half that. Now I know it's hard to imagine more than 6 people per m3... However, although there would be some air spaces at first, by the time we have filled the first hundred m or so of depth in our cube I reckon its going to get pretty squishy at the bottom...


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## adluroil (4 October 2008)

J.B.Nimble said:


> I know the prize has already been awarded but I think the cube is a bit too big. Assuming the average human has a body density not that different to water (1000kg/m3) then 6 per m3 would be a pretty heavy 165kg average. Global average for men women and children is probably less than half that. Now I know it's hard to imagine more than 6 people per m3... However, although there would be some air spaces at first, by the time we have filled the first hundred m or so of depth in our cube I reckon its going to get pretty squishy at the bottom...




I think your right /you just have to get an accurate estimate of how many people would weigh 1000KG . taking into account children and adults i would guess the average weight would be 50 kg person = 20 per cubic M
If there is 6.3 billion people then you will require 6300,000,000 / 20 =
315 million cubic m  answer is a cube with sides 7km long


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## Ageo (5 October 2008)

Happy said:


> Just pray that electricity supply is not interrupted during that time, or get the generator and supply of fuel just in case.




I have a Generator, plus im slowing moving all my power to solar (not incase if something happens but for cash savings over time and greenhouse effects).


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## seasprite (5 October 2008)

Smurf1976 said:


> The oil situation has been "around the year 2000" for at least half a century now. I'd say they weren't far out since in an overall time perspective 2008 is damn close.
> 
> And 2012 has been the supposed date of some disaster for as long as I've heard anyone predict it. They never seem certain as to exactly what it will be though.




Due to global warming there will be no fresh water to drink in 2012 there will only be salty sea water . This will cause mass dehydration ,  and in random fits of madness people will gorge themselves silly on rice and flour , then get chronic constipation and die. Those that have managed to scull back a litre of 20W/50 will survive , however their taste buds will be destroyed and they will eventually perish after eating noxious plants.


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## explod (5 October 2008)

Casks of wine on the special at Safeway this last week.


Just party and preserve yourself at the same time.


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## Temjin (5 October 2008)

I always dreamed of starting an agriculture business to take advantage of the impending doom...I mean..bull.  Jim Rogers is right, the next best thing is still agriculture! 

How immune Australia is from this anyway? Are we fully self-sufficient on food production when all major imports are banned? I'm interested to know...for the longer term view.


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## explod (5 October 2008)

Temjin said:


> I always dreamed of starting an agriculture business to take advantage of the impending doom...I mean..bull.  Jim Rogers is right, the next best thing is still agriculture!
> 
> How immune Australia is from this anyway? Are we fully self-sufficient on food production when all major imports are banned? I'm interested to know...for the longer term view.





I reckon we are better off than anywhere else (cept Tassie of course.)

All fish, all meats, vegetables, wheat, rice, corn, soy, sugar, honey..whew puff puff..nuff yet.  wine, beer, need a few more into making whiskey and I reckon no worries, shut the gate and keep em all out


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## 2020hindsight (5 October 2008)

explod said:


> I reckon we are better off than anywhere else (cept Tassie of course.)
> 
> All fish, all meats, vegetables, wheat, rice, corn, soy, sugar, honey..whew puff puff..nuff yet.  wine, beer, need a few more into making whiskey and I reckon no worries, shut the gate and keep em all out



howdy explod..
we're better off than much of the world that's for sure ...
....
imagine how wide would be the eyes of a kid from some of those African countries if he were placed in an aisle of Safeways/ Woolworths etc.


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## Ageo (5 October 2008)

seasprite said:


> Due to global warming there will be no fresh water to drink in 2012 there will only be salty sea water . This will cause mass dehydration ,  and in random fits of madness people will gorge themselves silly on rice and flour , then get chronic constipation and die. Those that have managed to scull back a litre of 20W/50 will survive , however their taste buds will be destroyed and they will eventually perish after eating noxious plants.





lol thats funny indeed, and if your actually serious then i recommend spending a week in the mountains or up in the NT


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## Aussiejeff (6 October 2008)

nioka said:


> I couldn't buy ANY australian rice at woolies last week????? It was all imported.




Grow your own..... :hide:


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## sam76 (6 October 2008)

a mate just emailed this to me.

Subject: FROM The NY TIMES 9 YEARS AGO






By STEVEN A. HOLMES (NY Times) 



Published: September 30, 1999 


In a move that could help increase home ownership rates among minorities 
and low-income consumers, the Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the 
credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other 
lenders. 

The action, which will begin as a pilot program involving 24 banks in 15 
markets -- including the New York metropolitan region -- will encourage 
those banks to extend home mortgages to individuals whose credit is 
generally not good enough to qualify for conventional loans. Fannie Mae 
officials say they hope to make it a nationwide program by next spring. 
Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been 
under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand 
mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure 
from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits. 
In addition, banks, thrift institutions and mortgage companies have been 
pressing Fannie Mae to help them make more loans to so-called subprime 
borrowers. These borrowers whose incomes, credit ratings and savings are 
not good enough to qualify for conventional loans, can only get loans
from finance companies that charge much higher interest rates -- 
anywhere from three to four percentage points higher than conventional 
loans. 

''Fannie Mae has expanded home ownership for millions of families in the 
1990's by reducing down payment requirements,'' said Franklin D. Raines, 
Fannie Mae's chairman and chief executive officer. ''Yet there remain 
too many borrowers whose credit is just a notch below what our 
underwriting has required who have been relegated to paying
significantly higher mortgage rates in the so-called subprime market.'' 
Demographic information on these borrowers is sketchy. But at least one 
study indicates that 18 percent of the loans in the subprime market went 
to black borrowers, compared to 5 per cent of loans in the conventional 
loan market. 
In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae 
is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any 
difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized 
corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a 
government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in 
the 1980's. 
''From the perspective of many people, including me, this is another 
thrift industry growing up around us,'' said Peter Wallison a resident 
fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. ''If they fail, the 
government will have to step up and bail them out the way it stepped up 
and bailed out the thrift industry.''

My question is.. Who's going to bail out the government?!


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## Green08 (6 October 2008)

You can be incredibly self sufficient.

Part of my childhood was on a farm we practiced perm culture.  Chickens, vegetables, fruit. Considering how many of us were vegetarians - the lack of meat was not an issue. Neither was milk so didn't worry about the cow.  Needed Grains - if we had more time we could have grown our own.
Needless to say we were healthy from our produce and the energy involved to grow it.

Self sufficiency is what you make of it.  You can be proactive or keep going to the supermarket. Maybe a bit of both.

We currently live in suburbia and we set up a perm culture garden a few years back with the neighbors in our block of flats.  It has worked well.  Great for the kids to see how to be semi-sufficient.


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## jonojpsg (6 October 2008)

explod said:


> I reckon we are better off than anywhere else (cept Tassie of course.)
> 
> All fish, all meats, vegetables, wheat, rice, corn, soy, sugar, honey..whew puff puff..nuff yet.  wine, beer, need a few more into making whiskey and I reckon no worries, shut the gate and keep em all out




Hey explod, do you mean that Tassie is better off even than the mainland, or that Tassie is lumped in with the anywhere else??  Obviously we don't grow rice here, but hey I reckon we're ok with the rest of it.  Besides which we've got enough water down here to kick butt in ag (once we get it piped from the west coast)  

Love the other posts on self-sufficiency  Keep up the great work people


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