# Another Brain Dump



## fiftyeight (18 June 2013)

So I have spent the last few months learning how much I dont know. I think I have decided how I want to approach trading and have begun focusing on it. However I have changed my mind a few times now and I am only just at the beginning so who knows.

My current thoughts are that I would like to start paper trading in the next few months depending on how much time I can dedicate to study.

I would like to paper trade on the platform I will be using and even though it is apparently a bit of a mission to start with, I am going to start with IB.

I am also going to sign up with Nick Radge so I can follow somebody's trades live as part of my education and will eventually purchase a few other pieces of software.

This next thought is probably where I am going wrong, but.....

I am also pondering trading Nick Radge's trades live quite soonish as well. I might learn some of the early lessons that only live trading can teach and ill be paying the costs anyway. Also I dont think ill have enough experience to trade on my own for quite sometime and as with most beginners I am getting ichy fingers. 

Also from my reading it is a relatively quiet time using Nick Radge,s trades, which I think might be a good thing while learning.

Cheers


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## pavilion103 (19 June 2013)

You're on the right track.

Radge's trades are a good idea. It is quiet though as you said. I wouldn't get too worked up about taking too many trades right now. Probably a good time to be out. 

What other education do you plan on doing?

Have you read any trading books?


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## fiftyeight (19 June 2013)

Ill just be self studying, which is why I think watching someone like Nick Radge will help.

I have flicked through a few while I have been trying to decide where to focus. I have studied no books yet. Ill play around with paper trading now just to explore, but I dont expect to have a system to try and test for sometime with current work commitments.

Just read through tradeguider Master the Markets, enjoyed. Unholy Grail and The Universal Principles of Successful Trading will arrive any day now.

I thought being quiet might actually help ME initially. Might teach me patience, something that is definitely lacking and will stop me from taking to many positions, so I will be able to pay more attention to the ones I have. 

Cheers


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## tech/a (19 June 2013)

Ive Know Nick for 20 yrs.
I feel sorry for him!

*Ive learnt more from Following his trades and what he DOESNT say than I have from what he does say.
They key is to watch what the pro's do when trades go against them---not just when they get it right!.*Im more agressive in this area than Nick!

While I know you want to get in there making your million as fast as you can.Take some advice from others here who would suggest trading on SIM. I agree.
The market will always be there but lose your capital and you WONT!.

There is a reason why 90% fail and thats simply that they have no idea what they are doing.
Youll know when you do.


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## pavilion103 (19 June 2013)

Adding to that, I've noticed that with Radge's trades there are a lot more 1R losses than I am prepared to take. Sometimes I will take a setup and end up managing it differently to the site. 

I also find that I diligently filter through the setups because some present better opportunities IMO than others. 

It would be easy to be smacked with a consecutive runs of 1R losses and thus I think it's better to have some of your own idea before just jumping in.

Tech's thoughts on aggressively reducing risk resonate with me strongly and make me feel much more comfortable when trading the markets. 

I traded a sim for 2 YEARS!!! I'm not suggesting you have to wait that long but rather that if you have the mindset that you want to get this right, the profits will follow, with patience.


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## Country Lad (19 June 2013)

There is a big advantage in starting the learning curve in a down market.  Too many beginners start in a bull market ("because everybody seems to be making money so I'll get in too") and then have no idea how to  handle a downturn and give up.  You will learn a lot more starting at this end of the market.

Cheers
Country Lad


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## boofis (19 June 2013)

pavilion103 said:


> Adding to that, I've noticed that with Radge's trades there are a lot more 1R losses than I am prepared to take. Sometimes I will take a setup and end up managing it differently to the site.
> 
> I also find that I diligently filter through the setups because some present better opportunities IMO than others.
> 
> It would be easy to be smacked with a consecutive runs of 1R losses and thus I think it's better to have some of your own idea before just jumping in.




Pav, while I don't know specifically which service you're referring to of Radge's, this is on the whole bad advice for someone new to the markets. "Look at the way the pro does it and then change\modify it cause you know better." 
There's a reason Nick trades the way he does, and while one may learn over time that they like to do things differently, I would nearly guarantee the changes possibly made by someone new to the markets would only be detrimental. 

fiftyeight, if you've got the $ by all means start trading Radges systems. You'll learn alot and in the long run financially it's one of the easiest r:r setups available.


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## pavilion103 (19 June 2013)

boofis said:


> Pav, while I don't know specifically which service you're referring to of Radge's, this is on the whole bad advice for someone new to the markets. "Look at the way the pro does it and then change\modify it cause you know better."
> There's a reason Nick trades the way he does, and while one may learn over time that they like to do things differently, I would nearly guarantee the changes possibly made by someone new to the markets would only be detrimental.
> 
> fiftyeight, if you've got the $ by all means start trading Radges systems. You'll learn alot and in the long run financially it's one of the easiest r:r setups available.




It's a good point.

His system makes money. I don't want to confuse anyone.

It's also important to develop your own ideas on trading. I guess that will come from being exposed to a number of different ideas and testing them out.

I've learnt (and am still learning) a tremendous amount from Radge's setups and trading philosophy. He is exceptionally good IMO.


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## boofis (19 June 2013)

pavilion103 said:


> It's a good point.
> 
> His system makes money. I don't want to confuse anyone.
> 
> ...




Yep, I'm in the same boat with EOD equities Pav. Patience and perseverance will serve you well fiftyeight.


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## CanOz (19 June 2013)

Country Lad said:


> There is a big advantage in starting the learning curve in a down market.  Too many beginners start in a bull market ("because everybody seems to be making money so I'll get in too") and then have no idea how to  handle a downturn and give up.  You will learn a lot more starting at this end of the market.
> 
> Cheers
> Country Lad




Totally agree with this!


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## pavilion103 (19 June 2013)

I started in late 2010 and was getting whipsawed everywhere. I'm glad it happened this way. No false illusions. I would have enjoyed making a lot of money in a bull market but I wouldn't have enjoyed giving it all back and wondering what went wrong.


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## fiftyeight (19 June 2013)

CanOz said:


> Totally agree with this!




Excellent.

There is no way I will be able to wait 2 years, thats some good dedication Pav.

If I am strictly following Nick Radge, I dont get why I have to sim his system? What am I missing? He already has a proven system?

My own system on the other hand may need years as with Pav to become profitable.

Cheers


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## tech/a (19 June 2013)

fiftyeight said:


> Excellent.
> 
> There is no way I will be able to wait 2 years, thats some good dedication Pav.
> 
> ...




Yes you are correct.
*Nicks is a robustly tested and proven trading system.*No need to test it.

I agree with boofis's comment on Nicks method.
It is a system and as such if your trading it DONT TOUCH IT!
Regardless of results.



> My own system on the other hand may need years as with Pav to become profitable.




Dont confuse discretionary trading with systems trading.
Entirely different.


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## fiftyeight (19 June 2013)

tech/a said:


> Yes you are correct.
> *Nicks is a robustly tested and proven trading system.*No need to test it.
> 
> I agree with boofis's comment on Nicks method.
> ...




Bad choice of words, doughy from night shift.

If I do not need to test it, do I/ should I still need to sim it? I am confused

Cheers


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## boofis (19 June 2013)

fiftyeight said:


> Bad choice of words, doughy from night shift.
> 
> If I do not need to test it, do I/ should I still need to sim it? I am confused
> 
> Cheers




No, don't sim Radge's stuff. 
Yes, sim any markets you have an interest in. 
Yes, sim Radge's stuff along side trading it if you want to play around with any of the conditions and see how 'this' affects 'that'. 

That's my


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## tech/a (19 June 2013)

boofis said:


> No, don't sim Radge's stuff.
> Yes, sim any markets you have an interest in.
> Yes, sim Radge's stuff along side trading it if you want to play around with any of the conditions and see how 'this' affects 'that'.
> 
> That's my




You wont be able to sim Radges system.
Unless you purchase his system.
You dont know the signals.
You can only sim your own trading ideas as youll know what they are!

Testing by the way means
(1) Using test software and coding in the functions and parameters and backtesting on various universes of stock or instruments.
(2) Using the functions and parameters chosen buy your backtesting and forward testing them on various universes of stocks or instruments.

Sim trading is generally used by discretionary traders to input their functions and variables in live trading to simulate their trading ideas with the view of recording information gleened from the trading to determine efficiency/profitablility and functionality of trading methods and ideas.


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## IFocus (19 June 2013)

fiftyeight said:


> There is no way I will be able to wait 2 years, thats some good dedication Pav.
> 
> Cheers




SIM for a long time is one way to build psychology robustness dealing with losses / profits and still be able to only take the right trades.

One other point is you can only trade the market as it is bull, bear or side ways. Following Radge will help to keep you out when you should be rather than burning money and psychology credits trying to trade a market thats unprofitable for the method you deploy.  
Understand the methods you use and the market conditions where they work.

Welcome to the journey it never ends  and good luck


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## CanOz (19 June 2013)

From memory, when i joined the The Chartist, some 6 or 7 years ago, I actually paper traded Nick's power setups on Interactive Brokers Paper Trading account for a week or so to try and become familiar with the platform, the signals, and the feel for the time commitment. I didn't want to commit any money until i knew these things. As it turned out, i didn't miss much and went straight into draw down (as per my normal my luck) before recovering.

I think this is what Boofis meant by sim trading his signals. 

CanOz


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## fiftyeight (19 June 2013)

Yeah I agree CanOz. Ill definitely play around until I feel comfortable with IB and the commitment levels etc. But depending how many trades present them selves I expect a week or so not months.

Boofis, one of the things I am interested in my paper trading, not part of my live trading, is "breaking" Nicks system to see how changes affect the profitability. 

Cheers


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## CanOz (19 June 2013)

You can tinker with Nick's or Craig's entries or exits etc., but i wouldn't do it with real money on the line. After all, if you're looking for results like this, then you can't tinker and expect the same:


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## fiftyeight (19 June 2013)

Wow those numbers are very impressive.

Fingers crossed I have even a fraction of success.

Cheers


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## fiftyeight (20 June 2013)

Unholy Grails just arrived.

Bought it direct from thechartist.com

Signed by Nick, and I enjoyed seeing that Trish Radge had signed the delivery package. Simple things amuse simple minds haha


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## two40 (20 June 2013)

Enjoy the read. I certainly did and filled the book with notes.


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