# Moral Dilemma Advice & Opinion Welcome



## waza1960 (30 July 2009)

I just found out my brother has being seeing other women and has a double life that his family knows nothing about should I tell them? Should I mind my own business?My feeling atm is to confront him one on one and tell him to be honest with his family or I will do it for him thoughts.


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## Boggo (30 July 2009)

waza1960 said:


> I just found out my brother has being seeing other women and has a double life that his family knows nothing about should I tell them? Should I mind my own business?My feeling atm is to confront him one on one and tell him to be honest with his family or I will do it for him thoughts.




Stay out of it, what do you hope to achieve by getting involved.


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## fodder-oz (30 July 2009)

id speak to your brother away from the family 1:1 and tell him your thoughts and how your not happy about it. I would leave it to him to decide what he wants to do with it, if nothing then keep quiet, i wouldn;t be a family breaker, he will get caught out sooner or later i reckon by himself.


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## waza1960 (30 July 2009)

> Stay out of it, what do you hope to achieve by getting involved.



                                                                                                    Achieve nothing for myself but morally have difficulty letting him deceive his mother , wife, kids and I also work with him putting me in a difficult situation


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## Mr J (30 July 2009)

I couldn't ignore the abuse of the wife and family, so I'd confront him. If he doesn't change, then I don't know. Perhaps the wife already knows (somewhat), and has been or is willing to turn a blind eye.


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## awg (30 July 2009)

You cant make people do what you want them to do

However, you found out, so that means other people may as well

That bears him considering (unless he told you)

girlfriends have a bad habit of breaking out of their compartments


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## marklar (30 July 2009)

If you feel the need to talk to anyone about it, talk to your brother.  Do not make matters worse by going behind his back and talking to other family members, all this will do is push him further away.

He obviously has his reasons for what he is doing, if you do confront him be prepared for helping him to deal with his reasons too.

Good luck.

m.


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## waza1960 (30 July 2009)

> I couldn't ignore the abuse of the wife and family,



            Agree. Wife probably does have suspicions so does mother.Do they really want to know thats the question                                                                                                          







> girlfriends have a bad habit of breaking out of their compartments



                                                                      Not real girlfriends usually hired .One Thought I had was to give him the option of going away with his family for an extended holiday and I would look after his business and I would keep it between us at least he may reconnect with his family and stop this crap.


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## trainspotter (30 July 2009)

WOW waza1960. Ummmmm ... do nothing. I take it your brother is old enough to look after himself. He has created the problem not you. You will create a much bigger problem by waving the "moral" stick around. Let him know that YOU know and you are not happy about it. It is up to him to face his demons head on. And believe me ... she will be a demon when she finds out. Steer clear at all costs IMO.


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## overit (30 July 2009)

waza1960 said:


> Not real girlfriends usually hired .




Is this the problem... Is he using a call girl?


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## moXJO (30 July 2009)

Talk to your brother but don't go and dog him out or give him ultimatums that he must tell his wife (it will end in tears). It's his life, his mistake and will be his mess. Worry about your own life, instead of being pulled into others drama. His a big boy and she is a big girl.

Your only job is to morally support them all when it does turn to $hit. Not push it in that direction so you feel better. Talk to him first but not in an accusing, overbearing way. Work out what’s going on first in his head before you lay the smack down on his life. 

Supporting your brother and his family, right or wrong is what family is about (at least to me).
 I'm surprised the first thing you thought of was to dob him in. Any jealousy issues, want revenge or you two don't get along?


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## Mr J (30 July 2009)

> Do they really want to know thats the question




Regardless, I really don't think I'd tell them. I don't think it's a good idea to get involved in family mess, especially when it's not my (direct) family. Anyway, it's very possible that one of the women will pick up on a vibe they get from you, especially if they're already suspicious. If there are hints and they really want to know, they'll figure it out. If they don't want to know, they'll ignore it.



> And believe me ... she will be a demon when she finds out. Steer clear at all costs IMO.




Yes. I'd just bring up the fact he's seeing other people and subtly mention that he's an @r$ehole, and not take it further.


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## Aussiest (30 July 2009)

awg said:


> girlfriends have a bad habit of breaking out of their compartments




How do you know awg : (joke).

Moral dilemmas are hard. I know at the very most i would say something to him 1 on 1 in person. I know at least i would get frustrated and angry with him for doing this and probably take it out on him, therefore starting a confrontation in which it would come up anyway.


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## awg (30 July 2009)

I've known about a few dudes go down the path yr brother sounds like he may be travelling. ( or their spouses) 

turns out they were not right in the head, at least at the time, IMO.

that being the case, psychological assessment is beneficial, given whats at stake with marriages etc.

most are reluctant to do this, especially when they are fully immersed in the notion its not about to blow up


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## Gundini (30 July 2009)

waza1960 said:


> I just found out my brother has being seeing other women and has a double life that his family knows nothing about should I tell them? Should I mind my own business?My feeling atm is to confront him one on one and tell him to be honest with his family or I will do it for him thoughts.




My Father did the same thing, and I knew of it, and being young thought it was kinda cool, and what all men did.

Next think I know, my Mother catches him out, and they divorced.

At the time he had a son with his mistress, and he was 2yo.

It devestated our family, bankrupted our family business, and affected myself and my brother forever.

We don't talk anymore with my Father, I don't even know if he is alive. I tried to stay in touch, but I guess we just grew apart. Very sad all round.

Just run through a couple of senarios with your Brother and hopefully he comes good. Good wishes...


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## waza1960 (30 July 2009)

> Is this the problem... Is he using a call girl?



                     Yes numerous although he may be emotionally attached to someone now. 







> Talk to him first but not in an accusing, overbearing way. Work out what’s going on first in his head before you lay the smack down on his life.



 Might be hard I am the older brother but I see your point.         







> Supporting your brother and his family, right or wrong is what family is about (at least to me).



 Agree but whats the best way of achieving this.







> Any jealousy issues, want revenge or you two don't get along?



No issues such as you suggest at least from my POV.Its just hard seeing his wife and mother miserable wondering whats going on and I know.Also very hard for me as my father had an affair and I was in the middle of that also and I didn't want to be and I wish I didn't know about this either


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## Judd (30 July 2009)

Basically it is none of your business.  However, if you feel inclined to stick your nose into the activities of someone else don't.  Just sit back and when or if it blows up into a big do, he is on his own Jack.

When it does blow up, just sit back go tut, tut and deny any knowledge of any activities what so ever (Who?  Me?  How was I to know he was a sleeze? Don't know anything about it) and side with your Mum.  As for his wife, your not married to her so, again, she is not your responsibility - although you may and should feel sympathy for her.


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## waza1960 (30 July 2009)

> My Father did the same thing, and I knew of it, and being young thought it was kinda cool, and what all men did.
> 
> Next think I know, my Mother catches him out, and they divorced.
> 
> ...



 Gundini your experience very similar to mine father just left one day wasn't heard from for two years ( didn't know if he was dead or alive). My mother took this hard had a breakdown had to be hospitalized wasted thousands of $ looking for him.Eventually he settled down with new wife in different area then after a few years pleaded with me to work for him,finally agreed with reservations.Problem was my mother thought he would still come back to her here she is emotionally pressuring me to reveal personal details about my father.Here I was working with my father but not knowing where he lived or anything of his personal life now he visits a couple of times a year but we know nothing of his personal life.Now here I am some 25 years later in a similar situation with my brother arrrgh,Maybe I should just distance from him,stop working with him and let the situation resolve its self.Maybe my personal prejustices from the earlier situation are complicating things.


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## disarray (30 July 2009)

not really your business, but if he isn't practicing safe sex with his hookers then he is endangering his wife. if he is safe then butt out because his morals are his business. if he isn't safe then he needs an ass kicking for being a selfish prick and putting his wife in danger.


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## Aussiest (30 July 2009)

waza1960 said:


> Gundini your experience very similar to mine father just left one day wasn't heard from for two years ( didn't know if he was dead or alive). My mother took this hard had a breakdown had to be hospitalized wasted thousands of $ looking for him.Eventually he settled down with new wife in different area then after a few years pleaded with me to work for him,finally agreed with reservations.Problem was my mother thought he would still come back to her here she is emotionally pressuring me to reveal personal details about my father.Here I was working with my father but not knowing where he lived or anything of his personal life now he visits a couple of times a year but we know nothing of his personal life.Now here I am some 25 years later in a similar situation with my brother arrrgh,Maybe I should just distance from him,stop working with him and let the situation resolve its self.Maybe my personal prejustices from the earlier situation are complicating things.




Now i know where you're coming from. Personal experience. Look, life is there to be lived. We don't all make the right decisions, but i've been an advocate for saying and living how you "feel". If the actions of your brother go against your moral values system, then you'll find it hard to contain yourself. You can't hold your brother back, but can you be the sort of person who defends their principles?


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## Trembling Hand (30 July 2009)

disarray said:


> not really your business, but if he isn't practicing safe sex with his hookers then he is endangering his wife. if he is safe then butt out because his morals are his business. if he isn't safe then he needs an ass kicking for being a selfish prick and putting his wife in danger.




So if he doesn't pass on a STD he's done no damage to his wife and family??

That's some poor logic IMHO.

Oh and there are a few STD that are transferable even with a condom - herpes for example.


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## Aussiest (30 July 2009)

So, what's your point Trembling Hand? Where do you stand on this issue? Do you think he should confront his brother or sister in law or not? (ps. i don't think he should confront his sister in law). I am curious to know where you stand


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## Trembling Hand (30 July 2009)

Aussiest said:


> So, what's your point Trembling Hand? Where do you stand on this issue? Do you think he should confront his brother or sister in law or not? (ps. i don't think he should confront his sister in law). I am curious to know where you stand




Waza's brother is in denial and is completely gutless for putting the people he would no doubt confess loving at risk, either physically or emotional because he hasn't the balls to say this situation is not one I'm happy with so I'm leaving. 

Simple. I have no problems with someone shagging whatever thing will let them. But to hide it because you want someone to do your washing and make dinner each day is as low as a man can get. To drag your family into such deceit because you haven't the balls to do out in the open what you really want is a waste of ones life and betrayal of trust.

If I was Waza I would say that to him. Whats not so easy is the wife part 

Does that make my position clear?


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## Happy (30 July 2009)

waza1960 said:


> Achieve nothing for myself but morally have difficulty letting him deceive his mother , wife, kids and I also work with him putting me in a difficult situation





I would feel exactly the same.

If it is just infidelity, maybe you will help him to snap out of it.
If it is something that eventually will make him to move to new arrangement sooner wife knows the better.
But maybe not. Very difficult, pity it has to be this way.


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## trading_rookie (30 July 2009)

As much as it would be painful to not say anything, I reckon it's best to keep out of it. 

'Cause once the dust settles, you'll be the one everyone will point the finger at as sticking his nose in where he shouldn't and possibly breaking up the marriage, and forever being resented by your sister in-law, and nieces/nephews for seeing their mum and dad break-up. No kid wants to see their mum and dad split.

Your motives will be questioned, for example, you're jealous of your brother and his family (even if it isn't the case) and that's why you couldn't wait to blabber about it.

How's that saying go? 'No good deed goes unpunished' ;-)

ps - never been in this situation (hopefully never will) but the above is how I'd tackle it.


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## 2020hindsight (30 July 2009)

waza1960 said:


> I just found out my brother .. has a double life ... should I tell them?



never realised that general chat included Dorothy Dix mate lol -  well here's my tuppence worth (and I feel very underqualified to comment) 

1. mate I'm gonna assume that by "them", you mean your brother's double   personality / life. 

2. Think I agree with others round here, that you wouldn't discuss it with his family ...  work on him instead

3.  I take it it's pretty disappointing for you. Either way, he's never gonna be the same brother you used to know. 

4. The other option is to pretend you're Italian or Greek, lol - everyone has a mistress or two by the time they're 50 - or so I'm told (well Zorba would have you believe that).  

5. And yet another way to look at it (diametrically opposite to 2 above) is that "the truth is the bludy truth", and if the worst he can accuse you of is telling the truth (if you confront him in front of his wife), then his reaction should be contrition - particularly to wife and kids -  rather than anger.  - just thinking aloud ok?


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## pursuitute (30 July 2009)

Geez, I have enough trouble disapppointing one woman let alone two of them. :bonk:

Pull your brother aside and ask him who X is.  He needs to realise he is busted before he will do anything about it.  He is probably stressing his head off trying to keep up appearances, when he sees the cracks in his story he will have to sort his stuff out.


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## Prospector (30 July 2009)

How did you find out?  And perhaps use that as an opportunity to discuss it with him.


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## disarray (30 July 2009)

Trembling Hand said:


> So if he doesn't pass on a STD he's done no damage to his wife and family??
> 
> That's some poor logic IMHO.




but we're not talking logic, we're talking morals. how about we don't like that he drinks too much? watches the footy? takes a sickie? enjoys the odd joint?

if he wants to take the risk of losing his wife and family then thats his business, and he has to accept the consequences of his moral decisions. but its not up to anyone else to cast judgement on him.

by all means as a brother talk to him, explain risks and consequences etc. but as soon as someone tries to force their morals on someone else (when no law is being broken of course) then you're on a downhill slope.



			
				Trembling Hand said:
			
		

> I have no problems with someone shagging whatever thing will let them. But to hide it because you want someone to do your washing and make dinner each day is as low as a man can get. To drag your family into such deceit because you haven't the balls to do out in the open what you really want is a waste of ones life and betrayal of trust.




according to you. but there are no moral absolutes. maybe they have an open relationship? she turns a blind eye? isn't interested in putting out any more after having kids? maybe she doesn't work so he provides all the money, a solid education for the kids and a comfortable lifestyle which isn't an unreasonable trade-off for housekeeping? we don't have much information to go on really.

also he's talking about his brother. if it was his brother-in-law i'd tell my sister straight up she's married to a scumbag, but to me blood wins out. others may feel differently.

if you do, you're wrong


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## moXJO (30 July 2009)

waza1960 said:


> Yes numerous although he may be emotionally attached to someone now.  Might be hard I am the older brother but I see your point.          Agree but whats the best way of achieving this.No issues such as you suggest at least from my POV.Its just hard seeing his wife and mother miserable wondering whats going on and I know.Also very hard for me as my father had an affair and I was in the middle of that also and I didn't want to be and I wish I didn't know about this either




Every situation is always unique but....
In general I have seen a lot of people play out the same destructive situations over and over. Often they repeat the cycle when whatever emotional trigger sets them off. Often when you can nip it in the bud early, no one wants to exert the effort. And when they need support after the sh*it hits the fan everyone is too disgusted with them to do anything. Not saying he does, might just be bored of his life atm. But might be more too it.

TH is exactly right but doesn’t touch on if there are any deeper problems that will resurface over and over again. The question is "why" he is doing it.

Have a talk to him first and ask him why he is doing it. Explain how your feeling about it and that you think its wrong + all the negatives with marriage breakdown effect on kids etc. If your father wasn't there he may need advice on what responsibility and family means and what being a father means. Easy to type on a forum hard to get across in an uncomfortable conversation I know
But it is up to him to man up or get caught. It is his mistake to hopefully learn from. And your job to be unconditional about your love.

I suppose you also need to work out:

If your brother is looking to get out of his relationship because he is unhappy, or is just looking for a bit on the side?

Is there any depression/ mental issues

What’s the relationship between brother and father like (sorry limited info, was he very old when your dad walked out)?

Is your mother bi polar or bpd (any other issues?)
(Questions you need to ask yourself not answered on an open forum btw)

There are a million different reasons it could be and I ain't no shrink. I just think there were a few red flags there.
Try to look past the anger and deal with the issue.
Nothing wrong with a good clip round the ears, just tell him you love him first


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## 2020hindsight (30 July 2009)

moXJO said:


> ...
> 1. Is there any depression/ mental issues ... What’s the relationship between brother and father like (sorry limited info, was he very old when your dad walked out)?
> 
> 2. Is your mother bi polar or bpd (any other issues?)
> ...



1. I'd be asking (instead) "did he marry before sowing a few wild oats first - if yes, then it's a bludy good chance he will go off the rails a bit.   As Garpul would no doubt say "Shout him a hooker and tell him to wake up to himself"

2. how much can a bi polar bear? 

3.  lol - like the qualification there.


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## moXJO (30 July 2009)

2020hindsight said:


> 1. I'd be asking (instead) "did he marry before sowing a few wild oats first - if yes, then it's a bludy good chance he will go off the rails a bit.
> .




Yeah could just be age as well. Or not wanting to deal with responsibility, the list is endless.
Best bet is working out what's going on in his head before he gets an ass whooping from wifey.


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## Julia (30 July 2009)

disarray said:


> . but there are no moral absolutes. maybe they have an open relationship? she turns a blind eye? isn't interested in putting out any more after having kids? maybe she doesn't work so he provides all the money, a solid education for the kids and a comfortable lifestyle which isn't an unreasonable trade-off for housekeeping? we don't have much information to go on really.



As disarray says, there's too much we don't know about the background.

My view is that he's an adult, you are not your brother's keeper, as the saying goes, and it's really not your business.

It's not up to you to 'rescue' either your sister in law or your brother from whatever is happening in their relationship.

It's up to them to resolve their own situation in their own way.

Whole different story if either of them actually came to you and discussed the situation.  Then it would be appropriate to express your own views, and hopefully persuade them to get some counselling.  Even if the marriage can't be saved (and if he's been buying sex for some while it seems unlikely all is well), then a good counsellor can make the separation process better.

I'd strongly recommend you keep your knowledge and your feelings to yourself.   

In the meantime, I'm sorry that this has happened.   It's tacky and very unpleasant for you.


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## waza1960 (30 July 2009)

> How did you find out? And perhaps use that as an opportunity to discuss it with him.



 Well found stuff on his work computer which I also use plus I knew there was something going on by a lot of little things.You see when you have a situation such as I had earlier with my father and he can't tell the truth even on trivial matters you develop a biased ,suspicious,cynical view which is not nice but helpful in a situation such as this.  



> If your brother is looking to get out of his relationship because he is unhappy, or is just looking for a bit on the side?



 I'd say both.He met his wife very young she 14 him 17 so understand that they could grow apart but why can't he just be HONEST. 







> Is there any depression/ mental issues



 Not apart from my mother although I think he has being unhappy for some time.







> What’s the relationship between brother and father like (sorry limited info, was he very old when your dad walked out)?



 He was 13 years old,I filled the father role as best I could.His and my relationship with our father is always friendly but distant.Have no problems with these questions


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## awg (30 July 2009)

Waza, as you have now added further details about family history, you would be best placed to know him, but if he has previously shown mood swings, substance abuse, poor judgement, etc, as well as the things you describe, you probably should research bi-polar on the internet, at least, as you are showing yr concern. 

The poor bastard would be desperate, maybe you can convince him to seek help, b4 things go completely pear-shaped?

On another note, large numbers of males are sex starved by there wives IMO...that would make me act crazy, and partly explains a lot of bad things that happen in the world

It is probably better to try and exclude a medical issue before making moral or ethical judgements. He may not be co-operative. 

maybe he is just an ar$e

best wishes

dr phil


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## waza1960 (30 July 2009)

> according to you. but there are no moral absolutes. maybe they have an open relationship? she turns a blind eye? isn't interested in putting out any more after having kids? maybe she doesn't work so he provides all the money, a solid education for the kids and a comfortable lifestyle which isn't an unreasonable trade-off for housekeeping? we don't have much information to go on really.



 They dont have open relationship from her pov.She may turn a blind eye as she seems very unconfident.Their sex life don't know.He lives very frugally and makes sure his family does too hardly spends any money on them but has spent more than 7k in one year on other women.In the last 6 months he would be lucky to spend 6 hrs per/week with them apart from sleeping .


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## Trembling Hand (30 July 2009)

Disarray fair enough.


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## moXJO (30 July 2009)

How old is he now?


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## waza1960 (30 July 2009)

44yrs  sweet spot for mid life crisis I guess. BTW thanks everybody for your input


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## moXJO (30 July 2009)

waza1960 said:


> 44yrs  sweet spot for mid life crisis I guess.




   sure is


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## 2020hindsight (31 July 2009)

waza , I think I can speak for the other posters here - that when we say it's a difficult call whether you confront him about these extramarital affars , that we're assuming that they don't include 
a) your wife
b) your daughter, or 
c) your son  

PS in the army they used to put bromide in your tea - or so the rumour went lol


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## Who Dares Wins (31 July 2009)

waza1960 said:


> Gundini your experience very similar to mine father just left one day wasn't heard from for two years ( didn't know if he was dead or alive). My mother took this hard had a breakdown had to be hospitalized wasted thousands of $ looking for him.Eventually he settled down with new wife in different area then after a few years pleaded with me to work for him,finally agreed with reservations.Problem was my mother thought he would still come back to her here she is emotionally pressuring me to reveal personal details about my father.Here I was working with my father but not knowing where he lived or anything of his personal life now he visits a couple of times a year but we know nothing of his personal life.Now here I am some 25 years later in a similar situation with my brother arrrgh,Maybe I should just distance from him,stop working with him and let the situation resolve its self.Maybe my personal prejustices from the earlier situation are complicating things.




The situation is clearly complex.

But before you think badly of your brother or berate him consider this: *What if* his wife is the ideal companion in every way. Great mother, good cook, attractive, easy going........but doesnt want to have sex anymore?

Mate of mine a few years ago was in the same situation. Wife only let him at her once every 6 months! And they were young with lotsa energy. So here he was wanting his wife but just wasnt getting it and was champing at the bit. So he starts seeing a few pro's and then eventually gets a girlfriend on the side. I understood and thought well fair enough, I mean whats the option, go without sex again for the rest of life?

I'm not saying this is the case with your brother, but are you in a position to rule it out? 

As they say, real life is often stranger than fiction.


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## Tink (31 July 2009)

Waza, I dont think I would say anything unless he asked me or there was the right opportunity for you to approach the conversation and ask whats going on? Are you ok?

I wouldnt be too concerned about the mother the wife and the rest of the picture till you understood where your brother is coming from - and not from your seat either, from his circumstance..

This is your brothers life and his choices, not yours - be his friend..

Right wrong or indifferent, he will learn..


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## dutchie (31 July 2009)

Hi Waza

You are indeed in a difficult situation.

My advice would be to tell your brother you know and leave it at that.

If he wants to talk about and seek your advice let him make that move.

Irrespective there will come a time when your brother and other members of the family will need your support and that's when "family" kicks in.

All the best.

dutchie


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## Trembling Hand (31 July 2009)

Would this not be the same moral dilemma if Waza found out his brother had a gambling addiction & no one else knew?

Would he take the same approach that other suggest? Nothing?

Or is this different? 

infidelity is different than financial cheating?


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## Surfer35 (31 July 2009)

I think the best course of action for Wazza to take is the next time the brother hits up the local Pollywaffle, he should skip around and service the wife.

That way everyone's happy.

So not complex.


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## skyQuake (31 July 2009)

Surfer35 said:


> I think the best course of action for Wazza to take is the next time the brother hits up the local Pollywaffle, he should skip around and service the wife.
> 
> That way everyone's happy.
> 
> So not complex.




I lol'd heartily. 

Now at least 2 people in the family have moral dilemmas. At least one will turn to drinking.
Long FGL.


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## SM Junkie (31 July 2009)

It's sad to see people respond with do nothing.  Morally I do not get how anyone thinks turning a blind eye is ok.  Is this how these people approach everything in life, don't get involved because it does not involve you. By doing nothing you become an enabler. Because you know about it, to do nothing now is to condone it.

It's a moral dilemma because you know what may happen if the situation is revealled, you know the pain that will follow for the wife, the children and even your brother.

What your brother is doing is triangulation.  He is going outside the relationship to try and resolve the issues within. But he is unaware of why so he will fail, his actions will be found out and he will have to deal with the fall out.

Take the advice of some of the others who recommend talking to your brother.  Try and help him to explore why he needs the company of these women and what is not being met in his relationship.  His only choices are to try and work on the relationship or wait for the explosion if he wants to keep on the current course.  But if you feel you are not able to do this with him, then he may need professional help.

Be there to support him and walk along side of him. 

It is not an easy position for you to be in, good luck.


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## Prospector (31 July 2009)

waza1960 said:


> Well found stuff on his work computer which I also use




Then it that case this provides the opportunity to raise the matter.  Have you considered that perhaps he meant for you to find it?


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## gav (31 July 2009)

SM Junkie said:


> It's sad to see people respond with do nothing.  Morally I do not get how anyone thinks turning a blind eye is ok.  Is this how these people approach everything in life, don't get involved because it does not involve you. *By doing nothing you become an enabler. Because you know about it, to do nothing now is to condone it.*




Exactly.


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## nunthewiser (31 July 2009)

oh cmon ...... whats the choices here ??

he goes home  to his stable family , house ,wife whom he resents on a daily basis because she wont fulfill his animal needs as a male ... the resent turns to deep seated bitterness as he wishes for another life with maybe another girl that does put out and fulfill him ......... marriage drifts along like this for another 2 years maybe tops . all parties hate each other .......

break up said stable family , house 


or does he go use a service many thousands if not hundreds of thousands dissatisfied husbands use ?.he forks out once in a blue moon for a no strings , no emotion  romp in the sack ........ he goes home fulfilled with no  sexual frustration attached ...... does the family thing , buys the lady some flowers and thanks her for keeping the house/family so well,  instead of there being that underlying sexual pressure which can cause so many rifts ...

yes we know your tired 

yes we know you work hard 

but we also know that sex is a huge part of a males drive and it is in somewhat a way in which we feel wanted and needed by our partners ..

hey bugga it . 

personally think you should not be even considering involving yourself in another mans family regardless how morally superior you feel..........


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## 2020hindsight (31 July 2009)

Who Dares Wins said:


> What if his wife is the ideal companion in every way. Great mother, good cook, attractive, easy going........but doesnt want to have sex anymore.




maybe answer that after you've  been without food for a week - plus (attractive) companionship  for a week, "mother-for-the-kids" for a week etc etc

what's the old MCP joke?
WIFE = Washing, Ironing, F***ing, Etc


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## waza1960 (31 July 2009)

> I think the best course of action for Wazza to take is the next time the brother hits up the local Pollywaffle, he should skip around and service the wife.
> 
> That way everyone's happy.



Not my wifelol           







> Then it that case this provides the opportunity to raise the matter. Have you considered that perhaps he meant for you to find it?



       Thats a possability I have considered and its possible he may be relieved that its finally going to be in the open.Well after initial shock that is.







> he goes home to his stable family , house ,wife whom he resents on a daily basis because she wont fulfill his animal needs as a male ... the resent turns to deep seated bitterness as he wishes for another life with maybe another girl that does put out and fulfill him ......... marriage drifts along like this for another 2 years maybe tops . all parties hate each other .......



Could be some parallels to his situation in above scenario




> or does he go use a service many thousands if not hundreds of thousands dissatisfied husbands use ?.he forks out once in a blue moon for a no strings , no emotion romp in the sack ........ he goes home fulfilled with no sexual frustration attached ...... does the family thing , buys the lady some flowers and thanks her for keeping the house/family so well, instead of there being that underlying sexual pressure which can cause so many rifts ...



 This not relevant and I believe a fantasy.Most men want a little variation and excitement in a stale relationship thats true but why not work on the current relationship to generate this?Trouble is it always starts as sex with no emotion but eventually emotion becomes involved family becomes more distant more emotional support needed outside of marriage a vicious circle.This is my brothers story


> personally think you should not be even considering involving yourself in another mans family regardless how morally superior you feel..........



My feelings of moral superiority are not the issue I feel I need to involve myself because my brother needs me because he is unhappy and lost atm .His family are miserable and don't understand what is wrong and he has done the wrong thing by them.I just want to help them all if I can not by arrogance or being condescending but trying gently to help.But making sure that whatever happens he does the right thing by his wife and particularly his children.


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## Julia (31 July 2009)

SM Junkie said:


> It's sad to see people respond with do nothing.  Morally I do not get how anyone thinks turning a blind eye is ok.  Is this how these people approach everything in life, don't get involved because it does not involve you. By doing nothing you become an enabler. Because you know about it, to do nothing now is to condone it.



I know what you mean here, and in some circumstances would agree.
But not in this instance.   The potential complications for two families here are considerable.



> It's a moral dilemma because you know what may happen if the situation is revealled, you know the pain that will follow for the wife, the children and even your brother.



Perhaps then a good reason not to make a decision out of apparent moral superiority to interfere.




> What your brother is doing is triangulation.  He is going outside the relationship to try and resolve the issues within. But he is unaware of why



You don't know that.   He may have quite rationally considered his situation and concluded:
1.  I resent my sexual needs not being met
2.  However, the family as an entity means a lot to me
3.  Therefore I do not want to leave my wife, knowing all the emotional and financial repercussions that will be involved and the hurt to all, including children.
4.  Therefore, I will accept the limitations of this relationship and find an appropriate outlet for my sexual needs.




> so he will fail, his actions will be found out and he will have to deal with the fall out.



Yes, this might happen.  It's not, however, really up to the brother to precipitate this possible outcome.





> Take the advice of some of the others who recommend talking to your brother.  Try and help him to explore why he needs the company of these women and what is not being met in his relationship.



Disagree.  This is a task for a professional counsellor, not a brother.



> His only choices are to try and work on the relationship or wait for the explosion if he wants to keep on the current course.



Not necessarily.   His wife may, for all you know, be aware of his behaviour and be choosing to accept/ignore it on a similar basis to that I outlined above, i.e. they both value the continuing family unit.




> But if you feel you are not able to do this with him, then he may need professional help.
> 
> Be there to support him and walk along side of him.
> 
> It is not an easy position for you to be in, good luck.


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## waza1960 (31 July 2009)

Anyway he is away atm supposedly on fishing trip but have had no contact from him.when he comes back early next week I'm going to talk to him.BTW my first wife also had an affair that was the end of that marriage.I'm so sick of dealing with this crap of course it would be easier to do nothing wish I could.


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## Tink (1 August 2009)

I think everyone has seen this situation, some have resolved and stayed in the marraige and some have left. 

The sad thing is, a majority of the time that it gets to this situation, the marraige is over. One party have made up their minds.. and with him spending less and less time at home says alot

I can understand you going in, happened with a friend of mine and her brother..as said, the marraige ended

Good luck with your talk with him


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## waza1960 (5 August 2009)

Summary & Conclusion:                                                                        Thanks for all the support and opinion on this issue .Well I talked to my brother and he was shocked,embarrassed and a little upset that I had involved myself in his personal life, all understandable reactions.He won't talk about the specifics of the matter and seems reluctant to change his behaviour.                                                                                          I think in hindsight I thought he was in crisis whereas now I think that he is just doing what he wants.His mother seems to think that given time that he will stop and doesn't want to tell the wife for her and the kids sake (what a crock)this has really upset and dissappointed me so I have taken the decision to distance myself from the situation and the family.                                                                                                 I take the view that the wife may not want to know so I will only tell her if she asks me. I feel that I have done the right thing by confronting this issue and have no regrets but I did underestimate the toll it would take on me.As far as the opinion to confront the situation or not goes I think it depends on the individual situation


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## Garpal Gumnut (5 August 2009)

waza1960 said:


> I just found out my brother has being seeing other women and has a double life that his family knows nothing about should I tell them? Should I mind my own business?My feeling atm is to confront him one on one and tell him to be honest with his family or I will do it for him thoughts.




Nobody needs a busybody spoiling the fun. This is all normal stuff. Let it all work itself out without your moralistic superglue intervention.

gg


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## gav (5 August 2009)

Cheating is a low and disgusting act.  Good on you Waza for having the courage to try and help your brother, I can't imagine how difficult that must have been for you.  Unfortunately, you can only help someone if they want to help themselves.


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## Julia (5 August 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Nobody needs a busybody spoiling the fun. This is all normal stuff. Let it all work itself out without your moralistic superglue intervention.
> 
> gg



I'd have tried to express it a little more diplomatically, gg, but yes, the reaction from your brother is pretty much what I'd have expected.

As I said earlier, you are not your brother's keeper, and his personal life is really not your business.


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## Julia (5 August 2009)

gav said:


> Cheating is a low and disgusting act.  Good on you Waza for having the courage to try and help your brother, I can't imagine how difficult that must have been for you.  Unfortunately, you can only help someone if they want to help themselves.



Gav, you are making a judgement regarding a situation you know nothing about.
Clearly, he doesn't want to be 'helped'. 
You can't go round rescuing people who need to make their own decisions.
If his wife is unhappy then it's up to her to raise the whole situation with her husband, not for the rest of the family to interfere.


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## nunthewiser (5 August 2009)

waza1960 said:


> .His mother seems to think that given time that he will stop and doesn't want to tell the wife for her and the kids sake (what a crock)this has really upset and dissappointed me so I have taken the decision to distance myself from the situation and the family.




YOU TOLD HIS MOTHER ???? WTF!!! .

i have no sympathy for any ramifications you bring upon yourself with your busybody meddling in another mans family!!


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## moXJO (5 August 2009)

waza1960 said:


> 44yrs  sweet spot for mid life crisis I guess.




I would refer to this. You had a chat to him, now its time to step away. His lesson to learn from here.


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## Timmy (5 August 2009)

These sorts of things ALWAYS get revealed.  It might take some time, but his unfaithfulness WILL be revealed sooner or later.

How will you feel when it is all revealed and you know you have done absolutely nothing?

The time to act is NOW, before it is too late.  It will be no good looking back and saying "I should have...".  Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

Nope, time to act is NOW.  Blackmail him and make something of the situation.


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## nunthewiser (5 August 2009)

Timmy said:


> Nope, time to act is NOW.  Blackmail him and make something of the situation.





amen


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## Buster (5 August 2009)

Alternatively..

If you HAVE to talk to someone (besides mum!!).. Tell his wife to take an asprin and start putting out.. or she may lose a good man.

My advice is to stay completely out of it as you will end up getting burned regardless of any intentions..

Regards,

Buster


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## It's Snake Pliskin (6 August 2009)

Julia said:


> You can't go round rescuing people who need to make their own decisions.
> If his wife is unhappy then it's up to her to raise the whole situation with her husband, not for the rest of the family to interfere.



Yes, they are adults and can deal with it themselves without interference. 
Good point there Julia.


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## Tink (6 August 2009)

Good for you Waza, you did what you felt you should do

If you found his emails so easily, I am sure he has left more clues about, not to mention the friends he has told (chinese whispers)

I agree with moXJO , you have spoken to him, he knows how you feel about it all, now its up to him..

If you feel you need to keep your distance, then do it.. I wouldnt say anything else now, just sit back and watch it all unfold..


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## waza1960 (6 August 2009)

Although I have nothing more to add to this thread its just typical that my trading has turned to s**t the last week.The market sure is an uncompromising biatch almost as if it senses when you down or preoccupied.Anyway more lessons to learn on the long road to trading success.


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## Julia (6 August 2009)

Maybe another pretty good reason to focus on your own life, waza, rather than try to organise someone else's.


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## nunthewiser (6 August 2009)

Julia said:


> Maybe another pretty good reason to focus on your own life, waza, rather than try to organise someone else's.





good call


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## Garpal Gumnut (7 August 2009)

I wouldn't call it cheating, rather opportunity knocking.

25% of all children whose "fathers" believe them to be their biological offspring , are not.

Waza , you are crazy to be meddling mate.

Spread the genes. Its good for society. Look at all those communities where cousins marry each other. Spend all day praying instead of getting out and about.

gg


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## gav (7 August 2009)

Julia said:


> Maybe another pretty good reason to focus on your own life, waza, rather than try to organise someone else's.




Yeah good call.  When he gambles away his life savings, he shouldn't interfere - its none of his business.  Then when he turns to drugs - nup, not Waza's problem either.  How dare Waza meddle in other ppl's lives... And if this results in his brother's family falling apart, of course it's Waza's fault too.  I mean, its not like his brother did anything to wreck the family...


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## Tink (7 August 2009)

gav said:


> When he gambles away his life savings, he shouldn't interfere - its none of his business.  Then when he turns to drugs - nup, not Waza's problem either.  How dare Waza meddle in other ppl's lives...




Well said Gav

What are family and good friends for?

If they dont like to hear it, bad luck - and vice versa.


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## insider (7 August 2009)

waza1960 said:


> I just found out my brother has being seeing other women and has a double life that his family knows nothing about should I tell them? Should I mind my own business?My feeling atm is to confront him one on one and tell him to be honest with his family or I will do it for him thoughts.




Stay the hell out of it. It's none of your business. This is what some people do. It doesn't mean he doesn't love his family, he' just not a monogamist. Medling into the affair will make him lose out big time. Brothers are forever.


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## insider (7 August 2009)

2020hindsight said:


> PS in the army they used to put bromide in your tea - or so the rumour went lol




Are you suggesting he should use sedatives on himself? Lol


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## Garpal Gumnut (7 August 2009)

> Originally Posted by waza1960  View Post
> I just found out my brother has being seeing other women and has a double life that his family knows nothing about should I tell them? Should I mind my own business?My feeling atm is to confront him one on one and tell him to be honest with his family or I will do it for him thoughts.





I had a long lunch with a trickcyclist mate of mine today  and he reckons you are suffering because of an anal personality, and that you sunconsciously hate your brother because your mother fed him more than you. He has a sense of entitlement as a result and you are jealous of him.

He says this is all normal and you don't need  zolofrt or anything and that you will bugger things up no matter any advice.

He was a bit pisseed at the time , the trickcyclist, we were at the Waterfront watching the tourists going for a feed for the crocodiles, so don't take it to heart, but it makes sense to me.

He asked me to find out were you both breast fed?

gg


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## waza1960 (7 August 2009)

GG thanks for the post at least it made me laugh.  You sure that mates not one of your multiple personalities. Anyway in response do I have an anal personality guilty. My brother and I were both breast fed to my knowledge.Mate I am the older bigger brother I was always the hungriest and I never miss out.Never taken any mind altering substances in my life except alcohol in moderation.And finally no more talk about my being breastfed because as in the movie Bad Boys 2 my mothers titties are to be locked away in a little box and never spoken of again


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## Julia (7 August 2009)

gav said:


> Yeah good call.  When he gambles away his life savings, he shouldn't interfere - its none of his business.  Then when he turns to drugs - nup, not Waza's problem either.  How dare Waza meddle in other ppl's lives... And if this results in his brother's family falling apart, of course it's Waza's fault too.  I mean, its not like his brother did anything to wreck the family...



We are all responsible for the decisions we make.
When we are children, we need guidance.
When we become adults we get to run our own lives, for better or worse.

If Waza's brother's marriage falls apart, I doubt very much such an event will be influenced by anything Waza has or does not have to say.
You used the word 'meddling'.  Couldn't have put it better myself.

Therefore better to preserve what remains of the brotherly relationship by keeping out of what is not Waza's business.


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## Garpal Gumnut (7 August 2009)

Julia said:


> We are all responsible for the decisions we make.
> When we are children, we need guidance.
> When we become adults we get to run our own lives, for better or worse.
> 
> ...




Agree Julia.

Waz mate, stay out of it. you'll cop the flack and you don't know the unknown unknowns which always exist in relationships and which often drive behaviour and decisions.

gg


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## waza1960 (7 August 2009)

> Agree Julia.
> 
> Waz mate, stay out of it. you'll cop the flack and you don't know the unknown unknowns which always exist in relationships and which often drive behaviour and decisions.
> 
> gg



 Look as I said I have confronted my brother and now I'm staying out of it .We still work together and apart from him being a little upset at me interferring with his personal life (which is understandable)he accepts that I did it because I was worried about him and his family.I have always looked out for him my whole life why would I change now.Also if I was in his position I would expect the same from him.


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## Garpal Gumnut (7 August 2009)

waza1960 said:


> Look as I said I have confronted my brother and now I'm staying out of it .We still work together and apart from him being a little upset at me interferring with his personal life (which is understandable)he accepts that I did it because I was worried about him and his family.I have always looked out for him my whole life why would I change now.Also if I was in his position I would expect the same from him.




It sounds like you made the right choice. Family are important.

gg


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## cuttlefish (7 August 2009)

waza1960 said:


> Summary & Conclusion:                                                                        Thanks for all the support and opinion on this issue .Well I talked to my brother and he was shocked,embarrassed and a little upset that I had involved myself in his personal life, all understandable reactions.He won't talk about the specifics of the matter and seems reluctant to change his behaviour.                                                                                          I think in hindsight I thought he was in crisis whereas now I think that he is just doing what he wants.His mother seems to think that given time that he will stop and doesn't want to tell the wife for her and the kids sake (what a crock)this has really upset and dissappointed me so I have taken the decision to distance myself from the situation and the family.                                                                                                 I take the view that the wife may not want to know so I will only tell her if she asks me. I feel that I have done the right thing by confronting this issue and have no regrets but I did underestimate the toll it would take on me.As far as the opinion to confront the situation or not goes I think it depends on the individual situation




This all seems reasonable to me.  You didn't create the situation so don't beat yourself up about how you handle it.  Its not your job to protect your brother from being found out - and its fair enough to question him about it - its also not your job or responsibility to let those that he's deceiving know about it.  Tough situation - infidelity is complex and often has complex motivations - kids add to the complexity - often the perpetrators are unaware of the harm that is being caused - particularly if it is tacitly accepted by the other partner.


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