# Preparing for a depression in Australia



## archilles (12 February 2009)

Hey all, 

Just wanted to ask a simple question:

How would you prepare for a depression in Australia ? 

For example: 

I own a house and have paid close to half of it off, although in todays economic climate it seems to be working out, i'm afraid what will happen in the future  if we head into a severe depression and i lose my job ( can't find another ) the consequence will be that i won't be able to pay off my mortgage. My property has great potential and is almost paying itself off BUTTT at the end of the day i still have a $ 450k mortgage that would eat me alive if i was out of work for over 10 months.. I've got a chance to sell it and buy a shoebox 1 bedder in sydney outright, i figure i'll have no debt and a shoe box worth peanuts ( if we go through a depression ) but at least i'll have something and not risk losing everything. 


I guess my main priority would be to have food, water and shelter whilst we ride out this massive storm ( which i think will unfold ). 


Any thoughts not only on my story but thoughts in general ? I'm losing sleep over this ....


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## professor_frink (12 February 2009)

archilles said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Just wanted to ask a simple question:
> 
> ...




you'll need a gun to protect your stash of food and water. I'd also recommend having a lot of alcohol as well. It will be our new currency when the dollar collapses, can be used as a cheap anesthetic, and is great entertainment for the long, cold nights during winter


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## noirua (12 February 2009)

In the last depression Aussie unemployment hit a peak of 33%. It looks as if severe recession with unemployment reaching 16% is a worse likely scenario due to continued Chinese interest in Australian assets. 
The sudden reversal of the Aussie$ from an extreme peak, just above parity, to AU$1.54 to the greenback, is not as bad as it looks and further weakness should help further.


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## surfingman (12 February 2009)

Get an ABN and go this site before everyone gets onto it:

https://www.campbells.com.au/ccc/index.jsp

hmmm wonder if they are publicly listed.....



Why worry about a depression? 
Go get another job if you have time to think about covering yourself in a depression, or stop watching the Financial News...


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## archilles (12 February 2009)

i'm hoping i don't have to resort to using a gun lol I'm a sports hunter and have access to plenty - any other options ? Problem is i'd shoot and ask questions later, it's not them i'm worried about, it's me...

Surely we could protect our wealth without resorting to violence, i'd even consider moving back to europe as i'm a citizen there too. 

However i like this country, it's were i was born and would like nothing more than to stick it out and find prosperity again. 

Anyone else have suggestions ? also any advice on my situation would be appreciated


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## numbercruncher (12 February 2009)

Im not sure that living in an Australian city would be much fun in a depression ....

Apparently us country folk are going to be fine though 

Cheaper house and a recession proof job/s or business would be a wise move I would summise ...


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## Glen48 (12 February 2009)

Sell the house and take the first offer, maybe look at CFD, option trading for some money???
Rent for awhile until we have a direction, logon to _*patrick.net*_ to what is going to happen here and how USA is handling it all, they have people now going through bins looking for food and council letting victims sleep in their cars.


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## pacestick (12 February 2009)

Buy two pocket knives get a freind and play this game .My father after school during the great depression would watch his father and grandfather play it. His grandfather was the local singer sewing machine agent and worked dried up .His father had been  a printer for the local paper that went broke and gave him one of the presses instead of money.
You take the knife and throw it into the floor next to the other person then its the other persons turn. You constantly say sorry no work available as people seeking work come through your door , you say this so often you get out of the habit of looking up at them. Dont bother going looking for work there isnt any.
You continue to do this for about three years and with a bit of luck someone will start a world war the winner of that war will see it in their interests for you countries economy to flourish and  because you were in place as things improved you do quite well


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## sammy84 (12 February 2009)

Glen48 said:


> Sell the house and take the first offer, maybe look at CFD, option trading for some money???




Selling in a depressed market and then engaging in one of the most risky forms of trading...not sure if this is the best advice. 
Depression is a long way away, the unemployment numbers today confirm that


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## Uncle Festivus (12 February 2009)

archilles said:


> Any thoughts not only on my story but thoughts in general ? I'm losing sleep over this ....




This is not advise....thoughts in general?

Debt is the enemy of independance? You are at the mercy of a bank's discretion! Clear your debt's? Unworry - declutter your life by living more simply, within your means?

If...Aus does in fact follow the rest of the world to a depression like economy then those who have the basics and no debt will be better placed to survive. The basics being - 

Food & (clean) water
Somewhere to live (other than on the street)
No mortgage/debt

While it looks as though the stimulus has indeed resulted in increased building activity it may also result in an oversupply of dwellings relative to those who can afford to buy them if we do in fact go into a recession like environment (even though technically we may not), so we have all these first homebuyers trying to sell their houses too when they start losing their jobs as well?

I have liquidated all my property holdings and now 'rent' a house on acres with abundant water supply.

Solution - sell current house & rent or own outright a (more affordable) house with food growing enabled backyard if possible. Install a water tank. Buy a generator, budget for double the rent/utilities use for the next 5 years. Then again, it may never happen, so don't worry?


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## Julia (12 February 2009)

sammy84 said:


> Selling in a depressed market and then engaging in one of the most risky forms of trading...not sure if this is the best advice.
> Depression is a long way away, the unemployment numbers today confirm that




Hah, this is actually pretty funny!  The unemployment numbers are apparently quite wrong because of cutbacks in the ABS staffing levels!

Here is the story from ABC Radio's "PM" this evening:
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2008/s2490008.htm

Ain't it great that our fearless leaders are determining policy based on wrong numbers, just because they're trying to save a buck on ABS salaries!


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## Julia (12 February 2009)

Archilles, this is not advice, etc etc, but you may be somewhat getting ahead of yourself in anticipating a full blown depression.  At this stage literally no one knows what will happen.

It would seem a shame to sell your present property on the basis of something which may never happen, especially when you feel it has good potential for the future and you're already making inroads into the mortgage.

I'd suggest that if a depression does happen, there will be no shortage of property for sale, and just as you might want to downsize into something cheaper, isn't it just as likely someone with a more expensive property would want to downsize into something such as you have at present?

But I don't know.  Never been through a depression.  Good luck with whatever you decide to do.


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## gfresh (12 February 2009)

I've prepared my tent, baked beans, and my shotgun already.. 

Talk of depression is rather amusing, especially this early on, when local recession hasn't even been agreed upon.. 

It's like the faintest wiff of an economic downturn, and people start running around with their head cut off. Calm down I say, and worry about things as they come your way.


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## tommymac (13 February 2009)

As people have said, we're a long way off a depression.  But the recession is hitting hard in some countries.

Ireland for example is considering cutting Government worker's salaries.

I doubt there is much you can do if a depression hits. Reducing debt and building up cash would be the best way I guess.

If you lost your job with a large mortgage and knew you would find it difficult to make repayments, I would speak to my Bank ASAP. They may be able to find a win-win solution.


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## UBIQUITOUS (13 February 2009)

The first step is to preempt whatever may be coming. The fact that you have started this thread, shows that you are considering the future. Acting on your 'hunches' is the real test though.

So well done, if you do act.


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## pilots (13 February 2009)

Yes it was not long ago that OUR GOVERNMENT was telling us IF we had a recession coming it would be light years away, MY HOW TIME FLIES.


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## Farencue (13 February 2009)

Hi achilles
What do you do for a living?


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## archilles (13 February 2009)

Hey i'm a graphic designer - I feel as though our industry will be hit pretty hard should this situation continue to spiral down. 

Believe it or not i like to take a "chicken little"  approach because i figure nothing can get worse than a worse case scenario - things will only get better. I don't trust government at all, they're always getting it wrong. 

I think unemployment and inflation rates are alot worse than they really are. 

All i want to do is be prepared for a worst case possible depression, i don't want to wait and see what happens - i've done that and now we're all staring down a scary barrel and no one knows what is happening. Why should i lose my house that i've busted my ass off for ? Just because of silly policies and greed.

I think there's nothing wrong with a back up plan, if anything i hope i get it all wrong and things become prosperous again..


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## Trevor_S (13 February 2009)

Julia said:


> Hah, this is actually pretty funny!  The unemployment numbers are apparently quite wrong because of cutbacks in the ABS staffing levels




It is interesting though that they use other statistics to suggest the ABS unemployment statistic is wrong (i.e they believe the statistics they want to believe and disbelieve the ones they don't want to believe) and then theorise that the reason it MAY be incorrect is because of cutbacks.  
Where is the information they have gathered to show the ABS number to be incorrect ? 

The ABS used to piss me off  I used to have to spend 5 - 6 hours once a quarter gathering information for them about my business. I got the hump after doing this several times and told them to piss off (Politely by simply returning the survey with a covering note saying I was no longer interested in filling this out), they sent me a threatening letter saying they would fine me (I was after all compelled under legislation to work for free for the Government) but they never did send me a fine nor did they keep sending me the surveys I had to fill out.


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## metric (13 February 2009)

go into a depression debt free, or debt you can manage....whatever it takes.

there will be bargains for the unencombered....


.


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## Trevor_S (13 February 2009)

archilles said:


> I think unemployment and inflation rates are alot worse than they really are.




Alot of people get confused about what Government means by unemployment rate and what joe q public thinks it means and most people get confused thinking the CPI (Consumer Price Index) is the same as inflation.    The numbers produced by Government are valid if you have an understanding of what they are eg check out what CPI actually measures compared to where you spend your money.


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## Farencue (13 February 2009)

At least you are doing better than most so far by keeping your eyes and ears open.
From what I gather by listening to people around me is that "the masses" seem to think the gubbermint will take care of us - maybe even keep giving out cash bonuses indefinitely

I really hope you dont have sleepless nights because really nobody knows for sure what is going to happen.  If things get really bad we need to be prepared
by getting rid of any credit card debt, paying extra off the mortgage while interest rates are low etc....  If you need more cash to do those things maybe look at selling any toys you dont really need eg: flash car, boat, jetski or whatever.  Also try and cut living costs like food and electricity use to generate more cash.
All we can do is be prepared by having a bit extra up our sleeve.  A friend of mine works as a civilian for the defence dept. and he has taken on another job nightpacking at Coles to tip it into his large mortgage.  

Im a small business owner in what I think is a reasonably recession proof business.  We were going to expand (husband and I) by employing someone else because the business is taking off, but will not do that just now, we will work a little harder ourselves.  We get by paying ourselves $60k combined per year plus whatever benefits we get out of the business.  We live in the outback without many comforts.  I would love to move to civilisation but realise we are better off here for now - got to get 2 kids through school.  Only owe $100k on a house that would cost $400k to
replace.  House needs some work on it but hey its a house!

My point in rambling on about myself is we have to make the best of our situation and I guess if you need to get an extra job or reduce your living standard a bit to sleep better at night then thats what you should look at doing.
All the best to you.


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## UBIQUITOUS (13 February 2009)

pilots said:


> Yes it was not long ago that OUR GOVERNMENT was telling us IF we had a recession coming it would be light years away, MY HOW TIME FLIES.





http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com...comments/two_or_not_two_that_is_the_question/

This article from November sums our goverment's predictions. They were so wrong then, and even more incorrect now. The IMF is not much better.



> WHATEVER happened to the Prime Minister’s assurance that economic growth in Australia would still have a 2 in front of it?
> 
> 
> Kevin Rudd has been keen to reassure voters in recent weeks that while growth would slow, it would have a magical number in front of it that rhymes with boo.
> ...


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## archilles (13 February 2009)

i think getting out of debt or at least having minimal debt, is the best idea also perhaps try stocking up on needs, rather than wants ..


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## Farencue (13 February 2009)

Hey archilles
Now you got it!  I dont understand why so many people have an entitlement mentality.  Nobody is entitled to a fully furnished, stocked with all the toys McMansion unless they have the means to pay for it out of their own pocket.
All you need to do to put things into perspective is look at third world countries that would be grateful for clean drinking water and food for the kids.
I realise that doesnt help anyone out of a financial pickle but the honest question to be asking ourselves is "Who put me in a jar and pickled me"?
It is about needs and not wants for anyone feeling nervous.


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## investorpaul (13 February 2009)

People need to stop relying on the government. They cant be providing hand outs, baby bonuses, etc forever. None of this was around 50 yrs ago but people survived. 

And those that complain "o but the cost of living has gone up, so we need it" need to have a look around at their own house. If you have a place with an extra bedroom, a plasma screen tv, recently got your bathroom renovated, etc yet still complain you dont have enough, the answer is simple- You are living beyond your means.


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## metric (13 February 2009)

50 years ago you could go out and shoot a rabit...now you got no guns and their aint no rabbits....

governments fault.....


.


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## Uncle Festivus (13 February 2009)

metric said:


> 50 years ago you could go out and shoot a rabit...now you got no guns and their aint no rabbits....
> 
> governments fault.....
> 
> ...




Hey, I got plenty of both, and kangaroos - the food of the depression?

It's ironic that we need to continually consume more to keep the jalopy recycling all those freshly printed dollars. It's also ironic that if we stop consuming then the whole system comes to a standstill. 

The fact is, we have been artificially consuming the future based on easy credit that is beyond most peoples means ie proportion of wage to pay it back is amongst the highest in the world. And until we catch up to that point of consumption equilibrium then the system will contract ie a recession in a negative self feeding inward spiral.

Liquidate debts before the stampede begins?


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## pacestick (13 February 2009)

investorpaul said:


> People need to stop relying on the government. They cant be providing hand outs, baby bonuses, etc forever. None of this was around 50 yrs ago but people survived.




Actually there were government handouts then milk and Golden syrup to name two This is where the phrase cockies joy originated.


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## Farencue (13 February 2009)

The whole easy credit/consumerism thing makes me feel the same way I do after I have eaten McDonalds.
Queasy.

Would you care to elaborate on liquidate debts before stampede Uncle Festivus?  Im curious.


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## investorpaul (13 February 2009)

pacestick said:


> Actually there were government handouts then milk and Golden syrup to name two This is where the phrase cockies joy originated.




I guess its a different type of hand out:

50 yrs ago - Hand out = Food
2009 - hand out = Plasma Screen Tv

One is for survival the other is because of greed


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## Knobby22 (13 February 2009)

Uncle Festivus said:


> Hey, I got plenty of both, and kangaroos - the food of the depression?
> 
> It's ironic that we need to continually consume more to keep the jalopy recycling all those freshly printed dollars. It's also ironic that if we stop consuming then the whole system comes to a standstill.
> 
> ...




Uncle Festivus, Achilles (and others).

USA and GBR are now printing money out of thin air to pay national debt. 
Surely this will cause high inflation which will reduce the effect of debt but increase interest rates (eventually). Therefore you may be better to hold assets as a hedge against this increased money supply.

I would hold onto investment properties and houses for dear life but obviously if you lose your job then all bets are off. Achilles, maybe you can turn your house into an old style boarding house and share it with lots of single mums and unemployed men.

Knobby22


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## Glen48 (13 February 2009)

Sell your house because they are coming down all over the World, NZ just been hit hard, Counties in USA are selling their streets to raise money after having sold their Fire stations etc.
In a depression every one goes for gold like they are doing now.
I sold my house Sept.08 and now 35K ahead and Gold has given me 7k this week and hoping for more over the w/end.
I would decide quickly if it is not to late already.


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## zt3000 (13 February 2009)

Knobby22 said:


> Uncle Festivus, Achilles (and others).
> 
> USA and GBR are now printing money out of thin air to pay national debt.
> 
> Knobby22




Just wondering where you get your information from ... or are you just guessing. Show me where this is fact???

Its funny to see how when things are going well, everyone talks like money grows on trees and when things go the other way the trees are stealing the money back from our pockets and its armageddon .. lol

its actually quite funny, people get so caught up in the emotion they miss whats actually happening around them and be positioning themselves for the next upswing. History has a tendancy to repeat itself ... lol


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## zt3000 (13 February 2009)

archilles said:


> i think getting out of debt or at least having minimal debt, is the best idea also perhaps try stocking up on needs, rather than wants ..




Is now not the best time possibly ever to fix a loan at under 4% for the next 30 years?? Think about it ... its effectivly free money!

i like


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## archilles (13 February 2009)

Knobby22 said:


> Uncle Festivus, Achilles (and others).
> 
> USA and GBR are now printing money out of thin air to pay national debt.
> Surely this will cause high inflation which will reduce the effect of debt but increase interest rates (eventually). Therefore you may be better to hold assets as a hedge against this increased money supply.
> ...





INFLATION - I still don't fully understand how printing money out of thin air creates inflation ? I realise that once more money is printed there is more money circulating in the economy BUT what part of this process  
causes prices across the board to skyrocket ? especially when people aren't spending as much ?


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## Farencue (13 February 2009)

zt3000 said:


> its actually quite funny, people get so caught up in the emotion they miss whats actually happening around them and be positioning themselves for the next upswing. History has a tendancy to repeat itself ... lol




I agree zt, I think if you havent gone and pickled yourself in debt and dont lose your job and can service what debt you have, then just pull the reins in and sit tight.  That is my situation anyhow as well as working my business to the max for more cash flow.
The scariest scenario to me is mum and dad both working fulltime just to pay off the mortgage on the McMansion - there is a chance one of them will lose their job.
I do see what other people with more nouse than me are saying: why service debt on assets that may fall in value eg: houses.
But surely the cycle will begin all over again even if it takes a long time?

Ive been given a lot to think about here - thanks!


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## Glen48 (13 February 2009)

There is talk of working until 67 before retiring....if you have a job...of course if you are a Storm victim you keep working long after you are Dead.
Toyota have 150 Acres of cars in USA to sell, other car co.the same and other companies who produce will have a back log so no inflation for awhile.


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## Uncle Festivus (13 February 2009)

Farencue said:


> The whole easy credit/consumerism thing makes me feel the same way I do after I have eaten McDonalds.
> Queasy.
> 
> Would you care to elaborate on liquidate debts before stampede Uncle Festivus?  Im curious.




In the good times people would have a nice big superannuation to help them retire at say 55-60. These people now may have to work longer (the top end) all the while we have school leavers (the bottom end) looking for those very jobs that would have been made available by retirees? The employment band is getting bigger (more people looking for less jobs), people start to sell assets, first slowly in the initial stages then it becomes a self fulfilling down turn. Deflation feeds on itself and gets a life of it's own, so the first ones out make the most money or keep most of their wealth intact?



archilles said:


> INFLATION - I still don't fully understand how printing money out of thin air creates inflation ? I realise that once more money is printed there is more money circulating in the economy BUT what part of this process
> causes prices across the board to skyrocket ? especially when people aren't spending as much ?




The banks literally force the new money on you to get their share of fees, interest etc and most people oblige by buying flat screen tv's or houses without realising that what they are buying are depreciating assets due to inflation of the money supply. 



Glen48 said:


> There is talk of working until 67 before retiring....if you have a job...of course if you are a Storm victim you keep working long after you are Dead.
> Toyota have 150 Acres of cars in USA to sell, other car co.the same and other companies who produce will have a back log so no inflation for awhile.



  Deflation is the consumers friend, the banks enemy?


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## Farencue (13 February 2009)

Thanks Uncle Festivus - makes perfect sense.


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## Ageo (13 February 2009)

professor_frink said:


> you'll need a gun to protect your stash of food and water.




Unfortunately its against the law to have a firearm for self defence in this country (go figure)

That doesnt mean you cant "use" it for self defence 

P.S in a severe meltdown id say 90-95% of the population would be screwed as they depend on commercialization.


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## tommymac (13 February 2009)

Farencue said:


> If things get really bad we need to be prepared by getting rid of any credit card debt, paying extra off the mortgage while interest rates are low etc....  If you need more cash to do those things maybe look at selling any toys you dont really need eg: flash car, boat, jetski or whatever.  Also try and cut living costs like food and electricity use to generate more cash.




Unfortunately the Government doesn't want us to do this. Instead they want us to decrease our mortgage repayments and increase our consumption to "help" the economy.


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## Farencue (13 February 2009)

lol Tommymac, I know but you cant eat your plasma TV!


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## archilles (13 February 2009)

Imagine if our dollar lost it's value and we experienced something similar to what happened in Germany  - such as needing a barrow of money to buy a loaf of bread.  

What would you say are the COMBINATION of factors that could lead to something like this happening again- inflation spiraling out of control ? 

If someone could illustrate this using the australian economy as an example that would be great!


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## sammy84 (13 February 2009)

Glen48 said:


> There is talk of working until 67 before retiring....if you have a job...of course if you are a Storm victim you keep working long after you are Dead.
> Toyota have 150 Acres of cars in USA to sell, other car co.the same and other companies who produce will have a back log so no inflation for awhile.




I vote for Glen48 in the perma-bear of the year award!


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## dhukka (13 February 2009)

Julia said:


> Hah, this is actually pretty funny!  The unemployment numbers are apparently quite wrong because of cutbacks in the ABS staffing levels!
> 
> Here is the story from ABC Radio's "PM" this evening:
> http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2008/s2490008.htm
> ...




Yes as mentioned back in August, whilst we all watch the headline number it is the revisions that are more accurate. 

Just take a look at the 95% confidence interval for the headline number, it is quite staggering. As can be seen below, the headline number of a gain in jobs of 1,200 in January has a *95%* chance of lying between a drop in employment of *-59,600* and a rise of *62,000*. Doesn't fill me with too much confidence.


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## Julia (13 February 2009)

Knobby22 said:


> Achilles, maybe you can turn your house into an old style boarding house and share it with lots of single mums and unemployed men.
> 
> Knobby22



Maybe get them together, let nature take its course, and claim a few baby bonuses?


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## lioness (15 February 2009)

archilles said:


> Imagine if our dollar lost it's value and we experienced something similar to what happened in Germany  - such as needing a barrow of money to buy a loaf of bread.
> 
> What would you say are the COMBINATION of factors that could lead to something like this happening again- inflation spiraling out of control ?
> 
> If someone could illustrate this using the australian economy as an example that would be great!




You guys don't get it do you. Go back and study Japan's money supply before they experienced 19 years of *DEFLATION*

Their money supply guess what was INCREASING just like USA. But people don't spend or invest they simply start saving as they are doing in the USA right now.  Expect a deflationary cycle to wipe out property for the next 2-3 years. Expect 50% wiped of property values with the same debt remaining. if you loose your job on top of this you will be wiped out for good. Sell down and remove all debt quickly before it is too late if not already.


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## robots (15 February 2009)

lioness said:


> You guys don't get it do you. Go back and study Japan's money supply before they experienced 19 years of *DEFLATION*
> 
> Their money supply guess what was INCREASING just like USA. But people don't spend or invest they simply start saving as they are doing in the USA right now.  Expect a deflationary cycle to wipe out property for the next 2-3 years. Expect 50% wiped of property values with the same debt remaining. if you loose your job on top of this you will be wiped out for good. Sell down and remove all debt quickly before it is too late if not already.




hello,

yeah the 1 or 2% interest rates are going to get everyone, debt is getting cheaper and cheaper no need to get out

sorry i know i know i know, nobody on the planet is going to have a job

thankyou
robots


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## Wysiwyg (15 February 2009)

archilles said:


> Imagine if our dollar lost it's value and we experienced something similar to what happened in Germany  - such as needing a barrow of money to buy a loaf of bread.
> 
> *What would you say are the COMBINATION of factors that could lead to something like this happening again- inflation spiraling out of control* ?
> 
> If someone could illustrate this using the australian economy as an example that would be great!




A nation wide drought, oil at $500 per barrel, no demand for coal/iron ore and all while China is invading Australia.


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## sammy84 (15 February 2009)

robots said:


> sorry i know i know i know, nobody on the planet is going to have a job
> 
> thankyou
> robots




Who's going to bake my bread then Robots? This is very worrying


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## gfresh (15 February 2009)

One way to prepare for possible job losses would be starting to train yourself NOW in complementary skills, or new areas you think may do better in a major recession. 

If unemployment were to hit 10%, you'd want to make sure *you* were the one that was at the top of any consideration for any of the limited positions around. That would mean having these extra skills the next person may not have, as the job market will become more competitive. 

Sounds simple, but interesting how many just stick to the same old, taking things for granted, THEN if they do get retrenched, they start panicking that they need to learn new skills and are not qualified for many jobs out there. It can sometimes be harder once you are already out of the workforce, so the best time to start is now.


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## robots (15 February 2009)

hello,

spot on Gfresh, find things which keep you above the pack to keep the $ rolling in across your working life

people may call you a "company man", but its only words, and when the pay check keeps rolling in with bigger and bigger figures on it you living in paradise

thankyou
robots


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## Calliope (15 February 2009)

My way of dealing with fiscal and mood depression is a couple of glasses of red every night. And I sleep like a top.

Of course this is not for everybody. I recommended this regime to my doctor who often has sleepless nights worrying about his patients. He seemed a bit doubtful. I am fortunate in having a doctor who takes the time to listen to my idle chatter.


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## moXJO (16 February 2009)

Not to sure how reliable this guy is. But some more gloom from a goldbug




> Officially “Out Of Control”
> Posted: Feb 15 2009     By: Jim Sinclair      Post Edited: February 15, 2009 at 9:18 pm
> 
> Filed under: General Editorial
> ...




http://jsmineset.com/


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## Knobby22 (16 February 2009)

Julia said:


> Maybe get them together, let nature take its course, and claim a few baby bonuses?




Hey, there's got to be money in that!


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## Dowdy (16 February 2009)

archilles said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Just wanted to ask a simple question:
> 
> ...





I find it funny that alot of people who say they *own* a house actually have a mortgage. 

Just a note: It;s not your house until you pay off the bank. You *have* a house but dont *own* it.

Maybe one of the reasons why we're in this mess - people think they own their homes and think they're well off and completely forget about the repayments to actually own the house


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## robots (16 February 2009)

hello,

and with rates going down down down, I will be paying only the principle soon on my loans

wow, 25yr term just became a 16yr term, gee thats daunting, rent free paradise

thankyou
robots


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## electronicmaster (16 February 2009)

This is not advise for anyone, just info that can be useful.  This is also a long term plan, because it can take a while for you to get what you need. 

Lets see.  This is what I have researched if the worst is to come.  And I mean it is for super hyperinflation times (if it ever gets that bad).

Get out of dept

Buy a truck load of Silver and "some" Gold (depends on how rich you are).  Buy major Gold mines shares then Minor Gold mine shares and energy.  

* If you can't buy over 5 ounces of Gold, then just stick with Silver.*

Also go for commodities.  

Then stock up on rice, tined foods, beer, wine, water, spices, vegetable seeds (for your own gardens).  Tined meets, sugar, salt, some flower, pasta, noodles, dried packet soups.  Well, what ever can last for a very long time.  

Buy a gun or a sword and lots of ammo (if you have a gun)

Then get yourself into the cash sector. Try to avoid the barter sector.  The cash sector is government, farming, food and Health Insurance companys. 

Most other things will be barter, and that can be expensive.  

I repeat, this is not advise, just an idea.


EDIT: Oh, and trade Futures.  Currency pairs might do well

And buy all the basics like soaps, tooth brushes, toothpaste, shavers.. you get the idea.


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## basilio (17 February 2009)

Start to live more simply, share - houses, cars, internet (use wireless), start to grow food, learn how to mend and scrounge. Nurture good friends

Enjoy the sunsets, your kids, partner and pets.


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## Calliope (17 February 2009)

There have been some excellent suggestions on this thread, but I think Knobby's and Julia's are the best. Handouts are the way to go.

I also think that Archilles' achilles heel is his pessimism. All these suggestions will no doubt show him the value of lateral thinking.


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## Glen48 (17 February 2009)

IMO the Depression has started people has now realised the Bailouts are a dud and they is no other answer more bad news is coming out hourly and Gold is taking of so if Gold keeps rising and at a good rate this will be the indicator we are heading down.
Get the dates of the Calendar and store then for hard times...unless your gold stocks are going well.


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## 2BAD4U (17 February 2009)

Forget gold and silver, buy STEEL.

Then you can erect yourself a good solid shelter to protect yourselves from when the sky starts falling.

This is all self perpetuating BS, one big vicious circle of doom and gloom.  Many companies are cutting back because of the EXPECTED downturn.  Many people are being sacked for no other reason than fear.  The company my wife works for just laid off about 45 people in Australia, not because they are going bad here (in fact their sales have improved) but because the US wasn't performing so Australia "had to share the load".  This was the official reason given by the company - sharing the load!!

The story is repeated time and time again of people preparing for hard times when this preparation just adds to the problem.


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## cwamit (17 February 2009)

2BAD4U said:


> Forget gold and silver, buy STEEL.
> 
> Then you can erect yourself a good solid shelter to protect yourselves from when the sky starts falling.
> 
> ...





your point just highlighted the fact we are in a depression..  more people will save the government stimulus package than spend it because they are worried about the future.. as you said it continues on and on, and becomes self full filling, problem is the temper is set ... its too late and we are heading for a major downturn.  

its the individual choice to save or spend as much as its the companies choice to sack...its when its the collective of  individuals that  choose to not spend that create far greater problems and the downward spiral that continues.


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## Julia (17 February 2009)

2BAD4U said:


> Forget gold and silver, buy STEEL.
> 
> Then you can erect yourself a good solid shelter to protect yourselves from when the sky starts falling.
> 
> ...



You're quite right.  The government has been by far the greatest contributor to this whole attitude with their continued forecasts of "worst ever" scenarios.


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## 2BAD4U (17 February 2009)

Not just the government though.  Blame the media, the internet, water cooler discussions.

This constant talk of the impending unemployment problem doesn't help.  Anyone here ever lost their job and got through it ok? I did.  Lost my job in the early 90's a month after I had signed up to build my first house.  It wasn't the end of the world (although if felt like it for a day or two).  It's how you handle the situation that determines how you get through it.  I went from wearing suits to work to packing bricks. I had to work so I would do anything.

Many people are fearing what's coming probably because they have never experienced it before.


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## Calliope (17 February 2009)

Once we would have thought that an Orwellian concept like;  Saving is bad. Spending is good, was a recipe for disaster.

Our leaders assure us it is the way to go. But how do we know they know what they are doing.:dunno:

And while the handouts are continued the majority will approve. Eventually an impasse will be reached when the pork barrel will be empty. What happens then?


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## archilles (18 February 2009)

I prepare for doom and gloom so i can stay ahead and be somewhat prepared if it were ever to happen. True that, i can sometimes get pessimistic - i've even gone to the extent of planning for possible warfare ( not that you can plan much )


I would love nothing more than to be wrong, history does repeat itself but on the contrary people also learn from their mistakes... i hope national and internatioanl governments do too.


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## moXJO (18 February 2009)

Here's a kicker I found a forum that was from back in 2000 about the tech wreck. And the exact same arguments came out back then, about the US dollar collapse, the massive US debt and end of the world as we know it (bomb shelters, canned food, and guns). And look what happened in the years following that

CDO's worry me atm though. And I have prepared myself a little, in the event of a worst case scenario.


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## jonnycage (18 February 2009)

im going to run to the hills and pack my trailer full of canned food, circa
Y2K bug, god knows those guys were right.  either that or turn the tv
off for a while, even the media will get tired of doom and gloom shortly


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## electronicmaster (18 February 2009)

I found this this morning. 




But Don't Panic just yet...

In case you missed this on Sunday:
Failure to save East Europe will lead to worldwide meltdown:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/co...

And here it begins:
Eastern Europe fears hit bank stocks:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/18809f6a-fc...

GM is also stumbling; as is Chrysler.
Auto Maker Bankruptcy Looms:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB12348...

Is Cash King Again? CDS Market's Liquidity Dries Up:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB12348...

I liked the line in here: "The providers also say it is impossible to clone"; guess they haven't watched the YouTube videos that demo cloning these things LOL
Dying cheques mark changing times :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7...

SDRs are Special Drawing Rights - from the IMF -
Special Drawing Rights (SDRs):
http://www.imf.org/external/np/exr/fa...

Still think we're all nuts? Hope you prepared...

Peace


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## jonnycage (18 February 2009)

nothing creates a crowd, like a crowd.  real easy to focus on the negatives,
a little harder to see through it.  have fun!


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## gfresh (18 February 2009)

electronicmaster said:


> Still think we're all nuts? Hope you prepared...




People were predicting the "end" 18 months ago, and most were busy reading about it then and preparing (read back in the "Imminent and severe market correction" thread on here).. it's all becoming a little tired now the general media, etc has now just jumped on the bandwagon realising how bad things are  When the media does that it's almost time to turn around and do the opposite.

They did it on the oil bubble, and now it's the gold bubble, and now we just wait for the next one to come along..


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## shaunQ (18 February 2009)

electronicmaster said:


> I found this this morning




Yeah, I stupidly came across that as well. I reckon that is Reihardt (or whatever) - his intellect and market knowledge was awe inspiring.


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## saiter (18 February 2009)

Wow, looks like lots of people are buying gold 
If everyone rushes into gold, then isn't this going to form another bubble?


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## Aussiejeff (18 February 2009)

Now I AM depressed.... my poor hero of capitalism ...  



> In an ominous move for our local would-be international casino boss, *Trump Entertainment Resorts and nine related companies filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection overnight.*
> 
> Who said the house always wins?
> 
> ...



http://business.theage.com.au/business/who-says-the-house-always-wins-20090218-8an5.html

Awww. Shoot! I s'pose next we'll hear about Buffett's balls-up.

Dag nabit!!


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## electronicmaster (18 February 2009)

Aussiejeff said:


> Now I AM depressed.... my poor hero of capitalism ...
> 
> http://business.theage.com.au/business/who-says-the-house-always-wins-20090218-8an5.html
> 
> ...




It depends on how much silver and gold he has.

By the way, capitalism has never been executed.  You can thank the governments and others for that.


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