# Octaviar MFS Kerfuffle



## Garpal Gumnut (23 August 2008)

Like many a share punter I have studiously ignored the thread on Octaviar MFs.

It does get in ones visual field though.

Google *Octaviar MFS *and the first ten or so references are to aussiestockforums.

So what is happening.

There are thousands of views and responses on the thread. Some even have developed multiple personae to make their point.

My first "investment" was in Estate Mortgage back in the 80s, so I had a sense of deja vu. 

These poor sods are arguing over the advisability of accepting 11c in the dollar or 7c in the dollar.

They have lost to operators with political or financial connections they will never have.

My advice, 
1.fight but keep your vigour for the future.
2.avoid stocks with past or current political luvvies on the board
2.avoid stocks with past or current financial luvvies on the board
3.avoid stocks "guaranteed" by a government or "policy"
4. caveat emptor
5. discount fundamental analysis to the percentage return on your holding in mfs.


gg


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## Garpal Gumnut (27 August 2008)

To those of a Rugby persuasion, you would be familiar with the winky wanky bird. He had a string connected between one of his his eyelids and his penis. 
Thus every time he winked he wanked and every time he wanked he winked.

This would appear te to be siimilar with the Octaviar posters who it is alleged appear to have been screwed by their board.

They are busily sinning with gusto exchanging innuendo, gossip and fact with each other.

For the non involved it is a familiar rant on the culpability of the Smart Money.

I have investigated their grievances and they have a case.

Onward they go.

Lets hope they score.

gg


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## Judd (28 August 2008)

When you take a bit hit or even are highly offended at how that hit occurred, the cents involved in the dispute tend to make all the difference to your attitude.  Understandable.


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## robert toms (28 August 2008)

Probably good therapy as well...could be mildly akin to a grieving process.


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## kostag (10 July 2010)

*MFS Octaviar and Equititrust link - de ja vu*

MFS and Equititrust link:

just saw this in the paper about David ANDERSON an ex MFS exec who with David Kennedy - also an ex MFS exec - now run Equititrust Ltd - a holder of $300million of public funds, in a similiar structure to what MFS was..... is this someone we want minding our money - we might get offerred a dollar as well:- 

MFS directors made 'dollar deals' KATE LAHEY 
June 16, 2010
.MORE than a year after investment group MFS collapsed with $1 billion in inter-company loans and owing creditors $2.5 billion, directors were still making deals through its entities, in one case giving away a third of a company to one of the men for nothing, a court has heard.

As examinations by liquidator Kate Barnet resumed in the New South Wales Supreme Court yesterday, two former directors were questioned about the sale of one particular company, MFS Alternative Asset Ltd (AAL) last year.

BusinessDay has previously revealed that AAL now has a stake in a company, Aurora, which is preparing to float. The sole director and a shareholder of AAL today is former MFS chief financial officer David Anderson.

In June last year, Mr Anderson asked two directors of McLaughlin Financial Services (an original MFS entity) to sell its 33 per cent stake in AAL to Mr Anderson's own company, Management Finance Pty Ltd, for $1. His company would then bill AAL a $1 administration fee, the court heard.


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## Garpal Gumnut (10 July 2010)

*Re: MFS Octaviar and Equititrust link - de ja vu*



kostag said:


> MFS and Equititrust link:
> 
> just saw this in the paper about David ANDERSON an ex MFS exec who with David Kennedy - also an ex MFS exec - now run Equititrust Ltd - a holder of $300million of public funds, in a similiar structure to what MFS was..... is this someone we want minding our money - we might get offerred a dollar as well:-
> 
> ...




Again why send someone to get you a packet of smokes from the corner store when you can walk down yourself, you know what the smokes cost and you don't have to give them a tip.

All these funds in one way or another are skimmers.

gg


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## Duped (12 July 2010)

Spot on Garpal Gumnut.  Caveat emptor.  But like all the outside observers, you may have missed the whole point of the Premium Income Fund lesson. 

Caveat emptor is being directly targeted. This natural barrier between pushers and users is being subsumed under mounds of incomplete and piecemeal regulation combined with soft, insipid policing. The finance industry has hijacking the Commonwealth Government's brand. And in its eternal search for approval and pats on the back, the Commonwealth is overselling its capabilities; sweetening the bait. MFS sold PIF through ASIC branded (i.e. AFS Lincences) financial advisors with a Corporations Act branded constitution and PDS. Market respected agency ratings, Corporate Act branded auditing and compliance plans, etc etc. All backed by an ASX listed parent. Every possible perceived protection (except for APRA) was in the package. Almost all stamped with the Commonwealth of Australia brand But to what benefit?  ABSOLUTELY ZIP.  Are you seriously telling your novice fellow  investors to simply: "ignore all that"?  That's a big ask.  Marketing 101.

So you learnt your lesson from Estate Mortgage.  I've learnt mine from PIF. And have survived. (Some in PIF are still in denial and blame themselves entirely.  Not realising they were the target of a hustle; a sting.) 

Australian's are less than a decade away from the biggest collective WTF in their history - when the super system fails to deliver on universally promoted expectations. The current Labor administration is trying to plug the gushing leaks with radical measures like banning commissions and mandating MySuper.  But is struggling to pick even the lowest hanging fruit like legislating a fiduciary duty for financial advisors.

So you think you're OK do you? Your smart money is safe? I don't think mine's safe. When the aging population starts tapping their super en mass, sending fund growth in reverse and making the whole system start to lurch all over the place the government will have no choice but to take the dollars from wherever it can to pay for continuing services. You'll be powerless to stop them.  First port of call will be your assets. Sending $$ off shore won't help you. ATO is already moving on that.  Are you aware of the amnesty the ATO is offering on foreign bank accounts?  I expect the net to tighten. Convert to gold? The US govt restricted private gold ownership in the 1930s.  Think the AU govt won't enact such measures? Democracy can be a b**ch. As Socrates himself found out.

I, and you, have a choice to speak up now and help stop the leaks now. In  speaking up PIF might become an example of what the pushers CAN'T get away with.  Rather than just a further example of what pushers CAN get away with.  An MO to study. Like your Estate Mortgage, PIF will just be another tried and tested step for pushers (SmartMoney) to take the standard of financial service in Australia down futher. Down further or down again in this tiring dance between regulation and pushers of two/one step forward, one/two steps back.

You hope we score? It's in your interests that we do.


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## flatback (10 August 2010)

Duped said:


> Spot on Garpal Gumnut.  Caveat emptor.  But like all the outside observers, you may have missed the whole point of the Premium Income Fund lesson.
> 
> Caveat emptor is being directly targeted. This natural barrier between pushers and users is being subsumed under mounds of incomplete and piecemeal regulation combined with soft, insipid policing. The finance industry has hijacking the Commonwealth Government's brand. And in its eternal search for approval and pats on the back, the Commonwealth is overselling its capabilities; sweetening the bait. MFS sold PIF through ASIC branded (i.e. AFS Lincences) financial advisors with a Corporations Act branded constitution and PDS. Market respected agency ratings, Corporate Act branded auditing and compliance plans, etc etc. All backed by an ASX listed parent. Every possible perceived protection (except for APRA) was in the package. Almost all stamped with the Commonwealth of Australia brand But to what benefit?  ABSOLUTELY ZIP.  Are you seriously telling your novice fellow  investors to simply: "ignore all that"?  That's a big ask.  Marketing 101.
> 
> ...



duped you have hit the nail on the head, the results of this so-called global meltdown which i might add ,( you are as aware as i that this had no bearing upon our funds being skimmed and scammed from the PIF)i also can see via the gov and their minnions (asic) and now it appears apra, that any person that dares to invest in funds or on the open stockmarket does so without any support from any of the gov agencies (in regard to governance or protection for the small or for that matter the larger investor) as you are aware i have removed myself from the PIF site because of the constant chasing your tail syndome which so many have accepted, i hope this site doesnt fall into the same category.
regards flatback


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## Duped (14 December 2011)

Well well well. 

Last year I wrote "Australian's are less than a decade away from the biggest collective WTF  in their history - when the super system fails to deliver on  universally promoted expectations."

And here we less than 18 months later with this gem from Unisuper

On behalf of OCV and PIF investors I'd like to welcome  Unisuper Clients to the Suckers Club. The law can only do so much.  And with our courts allowing English to be such a flexible language .... triksy triksy.

Thought you were in a "defined benefit" scheme? Did you think you were safe from the shennanigan's of the so called "free market"? Well guess what. Looks like you've been duped by clever lawyers. Just like all of Octaviar's and hence Fortress' victims.

Remind me what was Swan's response to the PIF investor's question at the London School Of Economics? Something about seeking higher returns through market linked investments and now, sadly, the worst has happened.

Well that means Unisuper Clients too now.  Hurts doesn't it? Holding something that's far less secure than what you thought it was after being exposed to the seller pitch.

You can join us in the queue at Centrelink while lawyers turned opportunists look down on you from ivory towers.

As the World Bank notes, we rank 65th when it comes to investor protections. 

Called 'regulatory capture' isn't it?


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-12-...-risk-of-losing-super/3729518/?site=melbourne

Key fund's woes puts super at risk for thousands

By economics correspondent Stephen Long

Updated December 14, 2011 09:52:41 

"A key scheme of one of Australia's biggest superannuation funds is short of money, leaving more than 100,000 people facing the prospect of having their super slashed.

At universities across Australia just about everyone from the boffins to the backroom staff is in a super scheme called UniSuper.

The fund has more than 450,000 members and about $30 billion in assets under management. *Its members thought they were in a scheme that was secure but that is no longer the case*. ....

Dr Rafferty echoes that view.
"You would perhaps have to ask  yourself how allowing the employer off the hook is actually in the best  interests of the members of a fund," he said.
Mr McCredden says employers were never on the hook as *the fine print always let them refuse to top up the fund*. ..."


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## Duped (14 December 2011)

*Re: MFS Octaviar and Equititrust link - de ja vu*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> Again why send someone to get you a packet of smokes from the corner store when you can walk down yourself, you know what the smokes cost and you don't have to give them a tip.
> 
> All these funds in one way or another are skimmers.
> 
> gg




Does that include Unisuper?


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