# Internships at trading firms?



## jono1887 (27 August 2009)

Are there any trading firms in Australia or Asia Pacific that have trading internships??


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## gooner (27 August 2009)

jono1887 said:


> Are there any trading firms in Australia or Asia Pacific that have trading internships??




Depends what you meant by "internship".

If you are a student and want some holiday work, then you might be able to get it.

If you want a full time "trainee trader" role with one of the retail or investment banks, then there are two main entry points. Firstly, get a good degree - business, economics, mathematics etc and go through the graduate entry program. Other option is to join the support function - risk, accounting or settlements and if you do a good job you might get a chance to get a trainee role which involved getting the coffee, executing some orders and maybe running a very small position.  If you are good at it, voila, you're a trader. If you are crap, back to settlements you go.


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## jono1887 (27 August 2009)

gooner said:


> Depends what you meant by "internship".
> 
> If you are a student and want some holiday work, then you might be able to get it.
> 
> If you want a full time "trainee trader" role with one of the retail or investment banks, then there are two main entry points. Firstly, get a good degree - business, economics, mathematics etc and go through the graduate entry program. Other option is to join the support function - risk, accounting or settlements and if you do a good job you might get a chance to get a trainee role which involved getting the coffee, executing some orders and maybe running a very small position.  If you are good at it, voila, you're a trader. If you are crap, back to settlements you go.




I'm a student wanting some holiday work... what firms would offer this?


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## gooner (27 August 2009)

jono1887 said:


> I'm a student wanting some holiday work... what firms would offer this?




jono1887

I know the major retail banks have offered in the past. And am sure lots of other banks would also have something similar. They try and get the keen and smart students in for holidays, impress them, try them out, and then offer jobs as grads. Obviously, assuming you work out.

I can think of two ways to find out - you can email or phone lots of banks (HR area) or you could try the careers area at  your uni - they may have details of those banks and other organisations that offer holiday internships.

If you want the holiday work, helps to have an impressive CV - good grades, interest in finance, charity work, leadership positions, scholarships, prizes etc. Don't lie, but nothing wrong with a bit of exaggeration.  Even working at McDonalds is seen as showing initiative and demonstrating the ability to hold down a job.

Good luck


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## Julia (27 August 2009)

gooner said:


> Even working at McDonalds is seen as showing initiative and demonstrating the ability to hold down a job.
> 
> Good luck




Agree.   Be prepared to do anything if you can't get exactly what you want.

I can remember my first school holiday job.  It was before automated postal services.
I spent the entire Christmas/New Year summer holidays (6 weeks) standing at a bench hand stamping the postmark on every letter that I laboriously cleared from the boxes.  I whined and grizzled about it but my parents said 'tough luck, kid:  it's time you learned that there's nothing for nothing".

It was a good lesson at the age of I think 14.


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## Bobby (28 August 2009)

Julia said:


> It was a good lesson at the age of I think 14.




Yep back in the late fifties things must have been different


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## jono1887 (28 August 2009)

gooner said:


> jono1887
> If you want the holiday work, helps to have an impressive CV - good grades, interest in finance, charity work, leadership positions, scholarships, prizes etc. Don't lie, but nothing wrong with a bit of exaggeration.  Even working at McDonalds is seen as showing initiative and demonstrating the ability to hold down a job.
> 
> Good luck




Good Grade - check
interest in finance - check (but how do you portray this in your CV?)
charity work - check (over 40hrs a year for the past 3 years)
leadership - school prefect (not much.. but its all i got)
scholarships - free ride through private high schoool,  & $30k+ in offers from various universities... to bad the one im going to didnt offer me a scholarship =(
work - check (done 18 months at KFC, 4 months at Pizza Hut, 6 months tutoring maths)

so what else do I need as i seem to have been rejected by a the major firms so far... apparently they are looking for uni students that are nearing the end of their deg, so theres not much i can do about that atm.


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## Largesse (28 August 2009)

jono1887 said:


> Good Grade - check
> interest in finance - check (but how do you portray this in your CV?)
> charity work - check (over 40hrs a year for the past 3 years)
> leadership - school prefect (not much.. but its all i got)
> ...




its entirely possible you just don't have the 'vibe' of a trader.

have a shot at banking perhaps


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## experttipps (28 August 2009)

also think about doing further study specific to financial markets eg Kaplan Diploma/grad diploma in applied finance see kaplanprofessional.edu.au 

the course used to be run by the "Securties Institute of Australia" and was studied by many new graduates working in major banks. Got me into financial markets (1994!) along with having studied a language - not that I ever spoke a word of it on the job!

even if you just look into the course and can say that you are keen to get  into part time study specific to the industry, beyond what you learnt at uni.


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## jono1887 (30 August 2009)

are there any smaller trading firms like Optiver and Barber Consulting that offer anything. I actually wouldn't even mind doing unpaid work there... I've sent out a few emails but no reply yet...


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## Largesse (30 August 2009)

jono1887 said:


> are there any smaller trading firms like Optiver and Barber Consulting that offer anything. I actually wouldn't even mind doing unpaid work there... I've sent out a few emails but no reply yet...




Barber Consulting is a 1 man recruitment agency run by a bloke called Daniel Barber (funny that) not a trading firm.

And Optiver are one of the larger independent Market Makers going around, incredibly hard to get in to.


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## beerwm (30 August 2009)

For those working in the industry,

are most trader's asian?


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## Trembling Hand (30 August 2009)

beerwm said:


> For those working in the industry,
> 
> are most trader's asian?




peculiar question.


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## beerwm (30 August 2009)

Trembling Hand said:


> peculiar question.




yeh, it is abit;

but from my schooling days, asians seemed more analytical and mathematically minded.

mean no disrespect.


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## jono1887 (30 August 2009)

beerwm said:


> yeh, it is abit;
> 
> but from my schooling days, asians seemed more analytical and mathematically minded.
> 
> mean no disrespect.




+1 for me


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## white_goodman (30 August 2009)

beerwm said:


> For those working in the industry,
> 
> are most trader's asian?




maby 40% based upon what I viewed taking the propex interviews...

might be different for market makers... might be something to do with being better students but having weaker people skills typically...

who cares tho


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## Mr J (31 August 2009)

beerwm said:


> but from my schooling days, asians seemed more analytical and mathematically minded.




That's because you don't know what happens behind the scenes. Asian parents generally drive their kids much harder. This also often leads to deficiences in other areas, as white goodman suggested.


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## jono1887 (1 September 2009)

Mr J said:


> That's because you don't know what happens behind the scenes. Asian parents generally drive their kids much harder. This also often leads to deficiencies in other areas, as white goodman suggested.




ahh... i hate all the frickin stereotypes about Asian parents. My parents did not drive me to study at all, I was self motivated to achieve high marks all through my life. I'm naturally competitive in anything I do... including my studies...


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## white_goodman (1 September 2009)

jono1887 said:


> ahh... i hate all the frickin stereotypes about Asian parents. My parents did not drive me to study at all, I was self motivated to achieve high marks all through my life. I'm naturally competitive in anything I do... including my studies...




dude its not the worst stereotype you could have lol, atleast your better than me at maths...


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## gooner (1 September 2009)

beerwm said:


> For those working in the industry,
> 
> are most trader's asian?




In major banks, no, for historical reasons. But they make up a fair percentage of the graduate intakes. A majority of the intakes - don't think so, but did not ever do the maths. Not that surprising there a lot though, if you look at the lists of HSC results and honour roles, there are lots of Asian names. So you would expect lots of these to move through to high paying professions.


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## mazzatelli (1 September 2009)

Generally Asians prefer more secure roles e.g. banking, accounting, law or those with some "prestige" e.g. medicine

The parents [due to their hardships] generally [and understandably] guide their kids on the safe path. The encouragement to study is to avoid hard labour jobs like what the parents went through.


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## $20shoes (1 September 2009)

mazzatelli said:


> Generally Asians prefer more secure roles e.g. banking, accounting, law or those with some "prestige" e.g. medicine
> 
> The parents [due to their hardships] generally [and understandably] guide their kids on the safe path. The encouragement to study is to avoid hard labour jobs like what the parents went through.




Although we're generalising, you tend to see this within the 
generation of immigrants at the time, and whatever they perceive as successful, that's what they will hone into their offspring. 
To give up everything for a new start you can imagine the ideas that formulate - "I'm never going to let my kids go through the hardship Ive had to endure. I'm not giving up all this just for my kids to be unappreciative". 

I know with European immigration, their idea of success was simple things - office job, business cards, or your own small business if you were mechanically minded. Things they couldnt do as they left primary school to work or were displaced by war and poverty. Their aspirations were practical; dont let your family starve, bring home a decent wage. University was perhaps unnecessary - good if you can get it - but perhaps overreaching. 

In the last two decades, with such a strong emphasis on education, and with the latest large wave of immigration from APAC, the parent's aspirations for their children tend to reflect what we now perceive as successful: university, good scores, respected positions etc etc 

my 2 cents


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## Trembling Hand (1 September 2009)

beerwm said:


> but from my schooling days, asians seemed more analytical and mathematically minded.




Of course I find this statement completely abhorrent and terrible unfair and biased.

How dare you assume that being analytical and mathematically minded makes a good trader.


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## Mr J (1 September 2009)

jono1887 said:


> ahh... i hate all the frickin stereotypes about Asian parents. My parents did not drive me to study at all, I was self motivated to achieve high marks all through my life. I'm naturally competitive in anything I do... including my studies...




It may be a stereotype, but that doesn't mean it isn't true. My school was about half asian, and most had parents driving them. Certainly more so than those with a European background. 



> The parents [due to their hardships] generally [and understandably] guide their kids on the safe path.




Don't put it down to hardship, as many of the Asian parents did will in their native country. Most of the Asians at my school came from a wealthy Hong Kong background.


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## Largesse (1 September 2009)

Mr J said:


> It may be a stereotype, but that doesn't mean it isn't true. My school was about half asian, and most had parents driving them. Certainly more so than those with a European background.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't put it down to hardship, as many of the Asian parents did will in their native country. Most of the Asians at my school came from a wealthy Hong Kong background.






i would hazard a guess that a decent proportion of the anglo-saxon students that went to your school also come from well to do backgrounds...

but i'm the same boat as you, most of the international students i went to hight school with came from very wealthy backgrounds, rich indonesians, singaporeans and chinese mostly. 
one of them's old man owned half the rainforests in java, i remember one day watching him  swap $100 worth of $1 coins at the tuckshop and throw them on the ground at lunch time so he could laugh at all the kids running round to pick them up.

was funny in a sick kinda way


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## white_goodman (1 September 2009)

Largesse said:


> i remember one day watching him  swap $100 worth of $1 coins at the tuckshop and throw them on the ground at lunch time so he could laugh at all the kids running round to pick them up.
> 
> was funny in a sick kinda way




what a prick lol,

kinda reminds me when mates asked me for coins and id only give them to them by throwing it on the ground or rolling down the hill... though that was like 20cents ha


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## mazzatelli (1 September 2009)

Mr J said:


> Don't put it down to hardship, as many of the Asian parents did will in their native country. Most of the Asians at my school came from a wealthy Hong Kong background.




Really? They just sat in Hong Kong and money just grew off trees on low hanging branches? Didn't work hard at all to obtain that wealth in a dog eat dog environment? 

The parents I can safely assume worked hard. The generation that followed [my generation(I'm a halfie)] is a load of BS. 

Plus, operating a business in Asia isn't as clear cut as in a Western country


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## Largesse (1 September 2009)

mazzatelli said:


> Really? They just sat in Hong Kong and money just grew off trees on low hanging branches? Didn't work hard at all to obtain that wealth in a dog eat dog environment?
> 
> The parents I can safely assume worked hard. The generation that followed [my generation(I'm a halfie)] is a load of BS.
> 
> Plus, operating a business in Asia isn't as clear cut as in a Western country




Track ID on your profile pic please Mazzatelli 

would hit


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## white_goodman (1 September 2009)

Largesse said:


> would hit




sloppy 1,422nds


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## prawn_86 (1 September 2009)

white_goodman said:


> sloppy 1,422nds




ROFL!


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## Mr J (1 September 2009)

Largesse said:


> i would hazard a guess that a decent proportion of the anglo-saxon students that went to your school also come from well to do backgrounds...




Yes, I'm just pointing out that many did not come from 'hardship'! There was a noticeable difference between the attitudes of Euro and Asian parents, in that school, others, and general observation.



> Really? They just sat in Hong Kong and money just grew off trees on low hanging branches? Didn't work hard at all to obtain that wealth in a dog eat dog environment




I never said they didn't work hard, but many did not suffer the 'hardships' to which you were referring.



> Plus, operating a business in Asia isn't as clear cut as in a Western country




It may be to an Asian? Or more accurately, that business in Asia for an Asian is as clear as business in the West for a westerner .


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## mazzatelli (1 September 2009)

Mr J said:


> I never said they didn't work hard, but many did not suffer the 'hardships' to which you were referring.




O rly? My father left home at 14 to the countryside to perform manual labour to feed himself. Escaped the communist regime and war to try and gain status as a refugee in Australia, not to mention that on the way if you were picked up by authorities you would be sent back. I also forgot to mention that there wasn't readily available money for food and shelter, so it meant sleeping on the street.

Upon arrival in Australia with empty hands, worked for peanuts and whatever money was made was sent back home to try help his family. He is more than comfortable now, but they're not really hardships as you say.

Not to mention there are a whole group of refugees from his day here, which doesn't make him a one off case.



> It may be to an Asian? Or more accurately, that business in Asia for an Asian is as clear as business in the West for a westerner .




Really? Kickbacks to "authorities" the norm when you try to open say a coffee shop here in Australia?
You really think you can turn up to an interview with your degree in Asia and think you have a fair crack at getting the job without some special incentives for the interviewer? 
LOL

Anyways, last post from me on this off topic.


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## Largesse (1 September 2009)

mazzatelli said:


> O rly? My father left home at 14 to the countryside to perform manual labour to feed himself. Escaped the communist regime and war to try and gain status as a refugee in Australia, not to mention that on the way if you were picked up by authorities you would be sent back. I also forgot to mention that there wasn't readily available money for food and shelter, so it meant sleeping on the street.
> 
> Upon arrival in Australia with empty hands, worked for peanuts and whatever money was made was sent back home to try help his family. He is more than comfortable now, but they're not really hardships as you say.
> 
> ...





POST MOAR BABES


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## awg (1 September 2009)

jono1887 said:


> Are there any trading firms in Australia or Asia Pacific that have trading internships??




Hi Jono

It has been my experience that the most effective method to gain access/employment is to know someone already inside.

This is common knowledge of course

that being the case, if you dont know anyone on the inside, a method that can be helpful, is to find out the names of someone already on the inside and try to meet them and talk to them.

It helps if you offer to buy then coffee/beer/lunch/cocaine

Helps if you are a likeable, handsome person, and can talk the talk

Determination and ingenuity are assets that will take you far, plus careful planning

wear a nice suit (but not too nice!)

I once got a job, by targeting and researching the company I wanted to work for, knew more about them than they did

happy hunting


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## jono1887 (1 September 2009)

awg said:


> that being the case, if you dont know anyone on the inside, a method that can be helpful, is to find out the names of someone already on the inside and try to meet them and talk to them.
> 
> It helps if you offer to buy then coffee/beer/lunch/cocaine
> 
> Helps if you are a likeable, handsome person, and can talk the talk




thanks for the reply, but as alluded to by other posters... my analytical skills came at a cost to other skills  so i dont really 'talk the talk' and I dont know anyone on the inside...


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