# Methods of Buying Gold



## GreatPig (10 June 2006)

Just researching options for buying gold, as opposed to shares in gold-related companies. I wouldn't want to have it actually delivered though.

From looking around, it seems a few options are:

- Perth Mint certificates

- Perth Mint depository program (non-allocated cheapest)

- The PMG call warrant ZAUWBA (non-leveraged)

- Gold futures (presumably leveraged)

- ETFs

Does anyone have any particular pros and cons for these different options?

I probably wouldn't want a leveraged product, so for me that would likely cut out futures, but I'm wondering particularly about the first three Perth Mint options.

What's the main differences between their certificates and non-allocated depository program? They both just seem to give you a right to some gold in the mint.

And what about the call warrant? To me that looks like the easiest option, as I think I can trade that through my online broker already, and it's non-leveraged with an expiry date in 2013. I wouldn't really be looking to trade it though, but I'd assume that as 2013 came around, they'd bring out another warrant to be able to rollover into if I was still holding. I've attached a recent chart.

Any thoughts or opinions?

Cheers,
GP


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## rederob (10 June 2006)

GP
Look at electronic options: Turks' is probably the best
http://www.goldmoney.com/en/index.php


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## YOUNG_TRADER (10 June 2006)

I have some nice Gold Watches, 
I'm sure we can create some sort of derivative security to cover them    :


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## coyotte (10 June 2006)

Don't Know if you have included :
GOLD - ASX in the above list
1 share = 1/10 oz Spot -- in $au

generally close to the mark
plus you can do T/A on POG ($au ) with this stock


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## GreatPig (10 June 2006)

Coyotte,

Thanks. Doesn't seem to be much difference between GOLD and the call warrant, except perhaps in liquidity - although I notice the warrant has a slightly lower price.

Cheers,
GP


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## wayneL (10 June 2006)

GP

I obviously trade the futures, but I'm in and out and I presume you want to hold longer term.

Two things to watch for are commisions and cost of carry. Futures and warrants will have low transaction costs, but high cost of carry.

Physical carries prohibitive transaction costs. ~10%

ETFs are probably the easiest, most flexible, and long term cheapest ways of holding gold. 

Thats just a non researched opinion mind you. But I think thats the way I would go about it.

Cheers


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## rederob (10 June 2006)

wayneL said:
			
		

> Physical carries prohibitive transaction costs. ~10%



Not if it is held via an electronic ownership platform.
That's why I posted the earlier link.


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## larry123 (1 January 2007)

*Gold*

Hey, does anyone know how do you invest in mints directly Or more specifically gold?

Thanks


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## RichKid (1 January 2007)

*Re: Gold*



			
				larry123 said:
			
		

> Hey, does anyone know how do you invest in mints directly Or more specifically gold?
> 
> Thanks




Larry, you pm'd me with the same question and I replied to you advising you, amongst other things, to search existing threads yet I find that a few minutes after replying to you that you start a new thread. 

I used 'gold' and 'mint' as search terms and came up with a number of good results, including this thread which I have merged your thread with. Please read the ASF code of conduct and posting guidelines before proceeding, in future I will delete redundant threads like yours without notice as it is very difficult to maintain a tidy forum with duplicate threads. In extreme cases I will ban the member responsible for breaching ASF rules, without notice, please be pro-active when you need help and don't be lazy. 

There is a FAQ section (see the toolbar) which can help you with using the search tool.

Thank you for your cooperation, I hope you find the previous posts in this thread to be of help.

RichKid
moderator


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## Miner (23 December 2007)

Great Pig

Do you have a recent achart for ZAUWBA ?



GreatPig said:


> Just researching options for buying gold, as opposed to shares in gold-related companies. I wouldn't want to have it actually delivered though.
> 
> From looking around, it seems a few options are:
> 
> ...


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## GreatPig (23 December 2007)

Sure. It's much the same as the GOLD stock chart.

Cheers,
GP


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## Miner (24 December 2007)

GreatPig said:


> Sure. It's much the same as the GOLD stock chart.
> 
> Cheers,
> GP




Thanks GP.
Wishing you and all of the forum participants a great Christmas and a profitable New Year against all odds.

Regards


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## BREND (24 December 2007)

GreatPig said:


> Just researching options for buying gold, as opposed to shares in gold-related companies. I wouldn't want to have it actually delivered though.
> 
> From looking around, it seems a few options are:
> 
> ...




I think ETF is the best choice for you.


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## ithatheekret (24 December 2007)

I prefer to hold the physical , but I am quite please to see brokerages getting in on the act , it certainly brings out a new participation rate in investors .

But , be it old fashion I still rely on the AM and PM fix , and prefer to buy on a strong AUD , just before the dips in the currency . I am very conscious of the allocation though and as it is usually cash purchases ( never on the plastic ) , the amounts are kept down around $2500.00 a go , as there is nothing from stopping one from purchasing a couple of times a day . This is due to the compulsory cash transaction reportings , which I think are silly on gold when Keating opened the door on holding gold .

My wife has some Citi ETFs too , but they are in her personal portfolio .


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## refined silver (17 January 2008)

BREND said:


> I think ETF is the best choice for you.




ETFs are the easiest, but they may not be all they seem. Certainly some anyway. Here is a post from GATA re the silver ETF (SLV) in the US.

----------------------------
Possible SLV Inventory Swap Explanation

Hi Bill - 
I think the 20,000,000 oz SLV inventory shell game that transpired on 12/31/07 can be easily explained IF we examine who is involved and what their motivation is. 

First of all the "Custodian" of SLV is JP Morgan (I could probably stop here for folks at GATA). JP Morgan provides all the info to the iShares Trustee on the silver stored by themselves and the "Sub-Suctodians" for the "Authorized Participants" (note that no SLV share holders own any silver). This silver can be stored anywhere in the world and has only "limited audit" requirements. The silver can also be swapped, pledged, leased and loaned without violating the prospectus. It is more than likely that most of the SLV silver is held in COMEX warehouses. That would give the perception of much more physical silver than is truly available. 

It is obvious that the 20M oz deposit and withdrawal was clear maneuver to "paint the tape" on the Year End physical silver held at SLV...but why? Since SLV is only a derivative of the price of silver there would be no reason to bump the amount held for the SEC or other regulators. The prospectus clearly points out that the amount of silver held and the price of silver have no real relevance to each other in SLV. There are no requirements to increase or decrease the amount held in trust...it is a perception issue that enforces the "value" attributed to the shares of SLV. 

So who would want (or need) a quarterly or annual official verification of real Physical Silver being held by a party? 

Only one group that I can think of....THE CFTC! 

The first "pertinent surveillance question" the CFTC must address in their oversight of the silver market is "Are the positions held by the largest long trader(s) greater in size than deliverable supplies not already owned by such trader(s)?" It's their main concern. 

http://www.cftc.gov/opa/backgrounder/opasurveill.htm?from=home&page=mktsurveilcontent 

"Physical-delivery commodities. Futures contracts that require the delivery of a physical commodity are most susceptible to manipulation when the deliverable supply on such contracts is small relative to the size of positions held by traders, individually or in related groups, as the contract approaches expiration. The more difficult and costly it is to augment deliverable supplies within the time constraints of the expiring futures contract's delivery terms, the more susceptible to manipulation the contract becomes." 

Pertinent surveillance questions for such markets include: 

Are the positions held by the largest long trader(s) greater in size than deliverable supplies not already owned by such trader(s)? 
Are the long traders likely to demand delivery? 
Is taking delivery the least costly means of acquiring the commodity? 
To what extent are the largest short traders capable of making delivery? 
Is making futures delivery a better alternative than selling the commodity in the cash market? 
Is the futures price, as the contract approaches expiration, reflecting the cash market value of the deliverable commodity? 
Is the price spread between the expiring future and the next delivery month reflective of underlying supply and demand conditions in the cash market? 
By adding 20M oz on Dec. 31st JP Morgan and the other "Sub-Custodians" were proving to the CFTC, by way of the SEC end of year filings from SLV, that they had access to 170M oz of physical silver that could be delivered against their net short position on the COMEX if delivery were required. Once the end of year silver amount for SLV was officially recorded the silver was "withdrawn" and apparently put to use somewhere else (delivery, loan, lease, etc.) 

The good news is that the fact that this maneuver was needed by the silver manipulators tells me 2 things: 

1) The CFTC is finally examining the large traders for rule violations. 

2) The fact that silver manipulators only borrowed the silver for a day means they needed that 20M to patch another hole in the dyke. 

Anyway you slice it, the unprecedented, decades long silver manipulation is on it's last legs. 

The silver ROCKET will truly be a sight to behold! 
Bix


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## Wysiwyg (17 January 2008)

You can get gold here in Brisbane.3 year ago preferably.


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## ithatheekret (17 January 2008)

I found a couple of sets of $5 Kangaroo series 5oz coins , well under weight price , thought it was a swoop myself and something to stash away for the kids . We have bullion , happy to buy and hold , but when I trade minis etc, I'm in an out that night , cash is the king there .


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## refined silver (23 January 2008)

More thoughts on PM ETFs.

http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/greene/2008/0122.html

Author makes an interesting point that price of the Gold streetracks ETF keeps trading at a significant discount to spot, and futures prices. How can the ETF purchase Au for you (which it purports to to, and store it, manage the fund etc, by buying Au for more than what they sell it at?


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