# Any real estate lawyers around here?



## gordon2007 (16 April 2013)

So the MRS and I are building our dream retirement home. We have council approval to build, but know the  neighbours to the left who already own a home there, and the neighbours to the right who just have an empty block, have decided to sue us to stop building.

So what I've learned so far is that;
A. They can't actually sue us, they can only sue the council for approving such a category 1 structure. 
B. Because it's a cat 1 they don't actually have the right of appeal to the ERD court system, instead having to go 
    straight to supreme court.
C. Everyone thinks their case us unsubstantiated and frivolous. 

So my question is, can anyone tell me what the next step is? I've already received letters from their counsel telling me to stop building, and I politely told them to get stuffed.


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## MrBurns (16 April 2013)

gordon2007 said:


> So the MRS and I are building our dream retirement home. We have council approval to build, but know the  neighbours to the left who already own a home there, and the neighbours to the right who just have an empty block, have decided to sue us to stop building.
> 
> So what I've learned so far is that;
> A. They can't actually sue us, they can only sue the council for approving such a category 1 structure.
> ...




Nice neighbours 

What are the grounds for their objection ?

You have a permit so just go ahead and sue THEM if they cause delays that cost you.


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## MrBurns (16 April 2013)

*and don't you reply at all *to any correspondence, get a lawyer if it looks sticky.


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## gordon2007 (16 April 2013)

It's all to do with setback. The person on the left has built their house much further back than he ever needed to. As such he will lose a tiny bit of his peripheral view. As far as I'm concerned, the person on the right can't claim a loss of view as they don't actually have a dwelling there. 

We're certainly not encroaching or blocking views but they're just getting themselves all worked up over nothing. I'm not even going to hire a lawyer as they're not actually suing me, they can't I've done nothing wrong. They can try and sue the council but it will cost them heaps of money because it goes straight to the supreme court.


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## MrBurns (16 April 2013)

gordon2007 said:


> It's all to do with setback. The person on the left has built their house much further back than he ever needed to. As such he will lose a tiny bit of his peripheral view. As far as I'm concerned, the person on the right can't claim a loss of view as they don't actually have a dwelling there.
> 
> We're certainly not encroaching or blocking views but they're just getting themselves all worked up over nothing. I'm not even going to hire a lawyer as they're not actually suing me, they can't I've done nothing wrong. They can try and sue the council but it will cost them heaps of money because it goes straight to the supreme court.




You have a permit just go ahead.


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## FlyingFox (16 April 2013)

gordon2007 said:


> So the MRS and I are building our dream retirement home. We have council approval to build, but know the  neighbours to the left who already own a home there, and the neighbours to the right who just have an empty block, have decided to sue us to stop building.
> 
> So what I've learned so far is that;
> A. They can't actually sue us, they can only sue the council for approving such a category 1 structure.
> ...




On what grounds are they asking you to stop building? If you have approvals I would think they have no claim.


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## gordon2007 (16 April 2013)

They're saying the council was wrong to give us approval. I suspect they'll have a really hard time getting that up in supreme court. We're going ahead with the building anyway. just hate to have neighbourhood wars filmed in our tiny little town.




FlyingFox said:


> On what grounds are they asking you to stop building? If you have approvals I would think they have no claim.


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## Julia (16 April 2013)

It seems like a very unpleasant start to the dream retirement.
Have you actually tried talking to the neighbours about what they see as the problem and possibly reaching some sort of compromise?
Do you want to live out your days in an atmosphere of hatred and tension?


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## Whiskers (16 April 2013)

gordon2007 said:


> They're saying the council was wrong to give us approval. I suspect they'll have a really hard time getting that up in supreme court. We're going ahead with the building anyway. just hate to have neighbourhood wars filmed in our tiny little town.




How high is your building and which direction is the view?


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## gordon2007 (16 April 2013)

It's not the height. It's the view to the left and to the right. It's a beachfront view facing west. They want us to move the house 3 metres back behind their house so they can have a view. But if we did that then all we'd be looking at is the sides of their house. It's really quite crazy what they're asking us to do. Every one of us all will have the same front view facing the ocean and west towards the sunset. 

At the moment the person on our left will lose a very slight view north. Then once the people on the right build we'll lose a very slight view north. Even if we built back 3 metres the principal would still stand in regards to views, except because we'd move it back three metres we'd lose more. 

Nobody in our whole council can figure out what they're on about. Especially since the person on our right hasn't even built and has no plans to build for another 5 years. 



Whiskers said:


> How high is your building and which direction is the view?


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## FlyingFox (16 April 2013)

gordon2007 said:


> They're saying the council was wrong to give us approval. I suspect they'll have a really hard time getting that up in supreme court. We're going ahead with the building anyway. just hate to have neighbourhood wars filmed in our tiny little town.




Then the onerous is on them to get council to stop you.



Julia said:


> It seems like a very unpleasant start to the dream retirement.
> Have you actually tried talking to the neighbours about what they see as the problem and possibly reaching some sort of compromise?
> Do you want to live out your days in an atmosphere of hatred and tension?




+1. This could turn ugly later on. I would try and talk to them but they should not be threatening you with anything unless you are not following council approved plans.


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## gordon2007 (16 April 2013)

I have. In fact the person to the left who already has a house, I've given him a copy of our plans 9 months ago as he is a 'friend' and have asked him if he had any concerns or issues. He has said nothing and we've asked him more times then I could possibly remember. He actually wants me to build our house further behind then his. 

Also just last weekend we all had a talk about it. But there is just no way I can move our house back 3 metres further than theirs. It's just crazy to even ask that. The person who has the empty block, they're stating they'll be happy to move it back three metres too. But they won't put it in writing. Now they're not planning to build for another 5 years. That's a very long time. Anything can happen. they could change their minds, they could sell it, they could die. 

It really is just crazy what they are requesting. If we agreed to do this, every house on the esplanade would be built as far forward as possible but ours. I'm not real estate guru, but surely that would diminish the value of our house. 

Lastly, because they went straight to the council and threatened legal action, if I were to even agree to move my house back, i'd have to rescind my approval and resubmit. Thus putting myself at risk of the council not approving it in fear of getting legal action taken against them. Then I'd be totally stuff.



Julia said:


> It seems like a very unpleasant start to the dream retirement.
> Have you actually tried talking to the neighbours about what they see as the problem and possibly reaching some sort of compromise?
> Do you want to live out your days in an atmosphere of hatred and tension?


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## gordon2007 (16 April 2013)

Just to clarify. The setback for the road is 8 metres. Every other house on the road has been build at 8 metres. They want us to build our house at 11 metres back.


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## drsmith (16 April 2013)

gordon2007 said:


> I have. In fact the person to the left who already has a house, I've given him a copy of our plans 9 months ago as he is a 'friend' and have asked him if he had any concerns or issues. He has said nothing and we've asked him more times then I could possibly remember. He actually wants me to build our house further behind then his.



He's the sort of friend who should build his dream home on the dark side of the moon.

Then he can try suing NASA for the lunar rovers they left behind.


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## Whiskers (16 April 2013)

gordon2007 said:


> Just to clarify. The setback for the road is 8 metres. Every other house on the road has been build at 8 metres. They want us to build our house at 11 metres back.




If it not a height issue, ie above one story, and you build on the same approved setback as the rest of the street, it looks like they're just trying to intimidate you into leaving them a better view. 

If you nor the council have not been issued wth a court application or injunction, stick to your plans.

If your neighbours want to keep the view over your property, tell them they should have bought it and leave it vacant for their view.


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## Julia (16 April 2013)

Whiskers said:


> If your neighbours want to keep the view over your property, tell them they should have bought it and leave it vacant for their view.



Wow, this from the avowed dispute resolution specialist!


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## Whiskers (16 April 2013)

Julia said:


> Wow, this from the avowed dispute resolution specialist!




Yep... because to bow to the whims of others in such an important investment is to submit to the bullying of others. That doesn't resolve conflict, it makes your neighbour more prone to create further conflict just to make you back down so he gets what he wants.

One main point in assessing the ground work for conflict resolution is whether any of the participants are making unreasonable demands of the other. If your neighbour wants you to build further back than them just so they can have a better view (than you), that's clearly unreasonably demanding. 

Also, just to clarify, there is a difference between behavioural conflict and abuse/bullying. 

Conflict may be to dissagree over the interpretation of the distance in council by-law... abuse/bullying is to demand your neighbour set back further than you.


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## skc (17 April 2013)

Tell them to move their house forward by 3m.

And definitely tell them to get stuffed.


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## Julia (17 April 2013)

Whiskers said:


> Yep... because to bow to the whims of others in such an important investment is to submit to the bullying of others. That doesn't resolve conflict, it makes your neighbour more prone to create further conflict just to make you back down so he gets what he wants.
> 
> One main point in assessing the ground work for conflict resolution is whether any of the participants are making unreasonable demands of the other. If your neighbour wants you to build further back than them just so they can have a better view (than you), that's clearly unreasonably demanding.
> 
> ...



OK, fair enough.  I see what you mean, Whiskers.
I would just hate the thought of living amongst people I couldn't get on with.


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## Gringotts Bank (17 April 2013)

gordon this is an issue of territoriality, power and possession.  It is more likely they are acting this way because they feel threatened, rather than because they enjoy making life difficult for you.  

In such a negotiation, you could big or small.  Going big would mean powering up your defense and offense and just trying to blast them out of the water.  This could be difficult, because it entails making them an enemy, and unless you know your enemy well, you could well be outsized and outnumbered.  Maybe your neighbour is a ruthless QC.  In some way, heartache will follow whether you win or lose

You could go small.  Takes a _lot_ of skill and humility to go small.  You make yourself powerless and friendly, a little harmless, humble guy.  You get them onside because they have never dealt with such a person in their professional or personal lives.  They don't bother about hunting you, because they see you as a 'nothing', a non-player...someone of no significance.  They have become wealthy through intimidation and control tactics, and you can wrong foot them... not in a nasty way, but enough to get what you want without rocking the boat.  But it's not enough to be perceived as powerless - you must also be genuinely friendly.  This will be a novelty for them.  It's much easier to play this role if you naturally humble and friendly, but anyone can make the effort.

Going small can backfire.  They may look at you as easy prey and decide it would be fun to destroy you!  These aren't the sort of people you want to live anywhere near.  But by playing small, you will find out whether they are just afraid of encroachment on their precious views (in which case you can easily win them over and live happily ever after), or whether they are total a-holes you want to avoid.  In the second case, sell you block of land to a bikie gang.

The last option is to see things from their point of view and go with their demands.  Ask to see inside their house to check what would happen to the view.  Maybe it's worse than you expected.  Maybe it's not such a big deal for you to go back 3m.  Or maybe a strategically placed hedge will fix everything.


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## gordon2007 (17 April 2013)

Julia said:


> I would just hate the thought of living amongst people I couldn't get on with.



Yes Julia, it is definitely something we are considering. 



Gringotts Bank said:


> gordon this is an issue of territoriality, power and possession.  It is more likely they are acting this way because they feel threatened, rather than because they enjoy making life difficult for you.
> 
> In such a negotiation, you could big or small.  Going big would mean powering up your defense and offense and just trying to blast them out of the water.  This could be difficult, because it entails making them an enemy, and unless you know your enemy well, you could well be outsized and outnumbered.  Maybe your neighbour is a ruthless QC.  In some way, heartache will follow whether you win or lose
> 
> ...




Agreed GB. We are naturally friendly people and have never NOT got along with any of our neighbours. I've tried the humble approach with them. Didn't work. I've been inside the other persons house a million times. Have slept there too many times to remember. He will NOT be losing any view. But there is just no reasoning with him. 

As for the other persons house, there is none. It's just an empty block. In fact, when they build, we'll be the ones to lose part of our view. 

To be blunt, the guy with the house is manipulating the person without a house and stirring up fear. I've tried to explain that to them too but with no success. They've both lawyered up so quick that now I cannot have direct conversation with them anymore. The last personal meeting they gave me 24  hours to make a decision or said they'll hire counsel. Before my 24 hours were even up they called me several times demanding an answer from me. I tried to explain that it's a very big decision and I would need a bit more time to rationalise this all t hrough. But again they lawyered up before even waiting their own deadline of 24 hours. 

I'm no lawyer but have spoken to so many people and have done so much research and am convinced they have no case. Even our local council are on our side and deem them to be bully's. We're actually hoping now that the person with the with the empty block loses so much money in this stupid case that they just decide to sell up. As for our 'friend', well I think the damage can be repaired enough that we would get along afterwards. He's used language such as 'it's only the principle of it' that he's suing. As such I'm interpreting it as a way out for him if he loses to save face. 

As a side note, he is going through some personal issues at the moment and am a concerned that he is actually having a nervous breakdown. It well and truly is insanity what they are expecting us to do.


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## jancha (17 April 2013)

I built a single story house on an elevated block next to a vacant block as far back of the road as possible. Thinking next door couldn't build my view out. I went to sell the property five years later and had a keen buyer. The buyer noticed the vacant block next door was being levelled for foundations so he went to the council to see the plans and after said to the real-estate agent that he wasn't interested and the house being built next door as it would block his view. As I was interstate while this was going on the agent said that he probably just wanted an excuse not to buy so didn't think much of it. Four month later I was told by a neighbour over the phone I should see what was being built next door so I flew home. Couldn't believe what the council had approved with this two storey monster of a house 10 metres away from the living dining areas. My view and my privacy were gone. Even the winter afternoon sun was gone by 3pm.
Went to the council with a care factor of zero from them so I did some searching.. turns out owner next door moved from Melbourne and was working with the local council as an auditor and further enquiries revealed that the council officer who signed on the approval of his house plans was not qualified!! Unreal so I go to an ombudsman who was very helpful...too helpful in fact as she got moved on leaving me a case number for future enquiries. Well I emailed and tried ringing the new ombudsmen's office quite a few times without any replies until I rang up and complained. I finally i had contact with the new case manager who had a strong Indian accent and made excuses as to why she hadn't replied earlier even tho I had the case number ect. She was completely the opposite from the other ombudsman not giving any advise and saying it wasn't her job to judge but basically just sit on the fence. Cut a long story short the council got a slap on the wrist and I got a letter from the Ombudsman department stating that the matter is close but you'll be please know that the council has be cautioned and it wont happen again.      
I'd be very cautious when anyone starts building next door... once it's up it stays there.
Ps I eventually sold the property for 40k less than the original buyer was offering when the house next door was completed.


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## Gringotts Bank (17 April 2013)

gordon2007 said:


> Yes Julia, it is definitely something we are considering.
> 
> As a side note, he is going through some personal issues at the moment and am a concerned that he is actually having a nervous breakdown. It well and truly is insanity what they are expecting us to do.




This is it...right here.  He's afraid.  It's not about the view for him, despite what he says.  Your plans have just triggered a powerful memory.  He will have a history of either:

-- encroachment on personal space (such as abuse or bullying)
-- being a victim of stealing or theft
-- poverty

So if you push your case and win, you could push him over the edge.  Is that worth it?  Is it your problem?  Does 3m matter so much?  Maybe...maybe not. 

If you were to let him have his way, you would probably find he will be so grateful that he will become a wonderful neighbour.  That's quite possible you know.  You might be the first person in his life to ever not pressure him.  

Let me know more details about him.  There will be a way for win-win somewhere.


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## drsmith (17 April 2013)

gordon2007 said:


> To be blunt, the guy with the house is manipulating the person without a house and stirring up fear. I've tried to explain that to them too but with no success. They've both lawyered up so quick that now I cannot have direct conversation with them anymore. The last personal meeting they gave me 24  hours to make a decision or said they'll hire counsel. Before my 24 hours were even up they called me several times demanding an answer from me. I tried to explain that it's a very big decision and I would need a bit more time to rationalise this all t hrough. But again they lawyered up before even waiting their own deadline of 24 hours.



I'm left with the felling that you should have simply said no to the bully and his manipulated fool well before now.

If you give in, can you imagine what it will be like living between these two ?
You'll be the wounded dog of the pack.

If you can draw legal confidence from the council's view, then I would stick with that.


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## prawn_86 (17 April 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> He will have a history of either:
> 
> -- encroachment on personal space (such as abuse or bullying)
> -- being a victim of stealing or theft
> ...




While i agree with your last line i find it amazing that you can pretend to know so much about someone from a few lines of text.


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## gordon2007 (17 April 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> So if you push your case and win, you could push him over the edge.  Is that worth it?  Is it your problem?  Does 3m matter so much?  Maybe...maybe not.




I understand where you're coming from GB. And I hate to say this, but what about us? If we move our house back, we then lose our view. This isn't just a weekend house for us. It's our dream home and a start to early retirement. We've been planning this for years and he's been well aware of it. 

This personal friend of ours, well before we ever even bought this block of land, we have stood and his balcony and stated that if it ever came up for sale we'd buy it. Years later he finds out it is indeed coming up for sale, he is the person that informed us before it even went to the market. We bought it before it was even advertised So it's not like he had no idea. He always stated he'd love to have us as neighbours. 

As for wealth, he's got more $$$ than he'll ever need. My wife has known him since childhood, he was never bullied.


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## Boggo (17 April 2013)

skc said:


> Tell them to move their house forward by 3m.
> 
> *And definitely tell them to get stuffed.*




Agree entirely, poor planning on their part and now they want to penalise you.
They will get over it, if they don't then tough.


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## Gringotts Bank (17 April 2013)

prawn_86 said:


> While i agree with your last line i find it amazing that you can pretend to know so much about someone from a few lines of text.




There's actually heaps of information in the posts.  Anyone who acts in an irrational and aggressive way is afraid.  Then it's just a matter of finding out what it is he's afraid of.  You take the trigger and you work backwards from there.  It has to be something *other than* the view because his reaction is abnormal.  There's only a few possibilities, imo.  I want more info from gordon so i can form a view, then create a strategy.


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## Gringotts Bank (17 April 2013)

gordon2007 said:


> I understand where you're coming from GB. And I hate to say this, but what about us? If we move our house back, we then lose our view. This isn't just a weekend house for us. It's our dream home and a start to early retirement. We've been planning this for years and he's been well aware of it.
> 
> This personal friend of ours, well before we ever even bought this block of land, we have stood and his balcony and stated that if it ever came up for sale we'd buy it. Years later he finds out it is indeed coming up for sale, he is the person that informed us before it even went to the market. We bought it before it was even advertised So it's not like he had no idea. He always stated he'd love to have us as neighbours.
> 
> As for wealth, he's got more $$$ than he'll ever need. My wife has known him since childhood, he was never bullied.




We've still got the issue of his extreme reaction and personal issues.  And I reckon if you can figure it out, that's your only chance at getting what you want.

Is his garden neat, ultra neat or messy?  What about his personal appearance?  What's his personality like?  
What would happen if you parked your car partly overlapping his nature strip?  How does he react when neighbours are noisy?  How much time does he spend at this home?  Is he tight with money?  What's his wife like?  How does he relate to her?  Do his children visit often? ...etc,


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## Julia (17 April 2013)

Gordon, whilst it may be rather too late, given they now have got lawyers involved, would it be worthwhile considering mediation?  The Justice Department in most centres provides free mediation.  
Perhaps give them a call, explain the situation and ask if they have any suggestions or advice?

Mediation, when engaged in voluntarily by both parties, has something like an 85% success rate.


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## Gringotts Bank (17 April 2013)

Forget about all those questions and possibilities I posed.  None of that is really necessary at the end of the day.  The thing is, you say he's very stressed out about *something*, and it's intrusive for me to try to figure out what that is..  What I would do is write him a letter and tell him I'm postponing the build for the moment because I noticed he seemed very stressed and I didn't want to add to his burden.  Give him a few months to settle down and see how the land lies.  I think he will appreciate the sentiment and allow you to build as planned.

Or Julia's approach sounds good too.


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## moXJO (17 April 2013)

Stuff em I run into this type of thing a lot in one particular suburb where I am. A case of cashed up whingers who are willing to use (bend) the law to get their way. If council has approved it and can't see a problem then he will have a hard time changing any decision. I wouldn't give an inch or discuss it too much with him until the lawyers go through the motions. I see this kind of legal bullying a bit, just keep in good with  the key figures in council.


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## MrBurns (17 April 2013)

I had a run in with one of my neighbours, we don't talk any more, then I found non of his other adjoining neighbours talk to him either, some people are hopeless.


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## gordon2007 (17 April 2013)

moXJO said:


> I wouldn't give an inch or discuss it too much with him until the lawyers go through the motions. I see this kind of legal bullying a bit, just keep in good with  the key figures in council.




This is the exact plan we're taking. I'm going ahead with the build. He's had 9 months to voice his concern. Everyone, and I mean everyone in this very tiny town is on our side. 

As for the people who own the empty block, I have tried to explain to him numerous times he's being taken advantage of by our friend. I explained to him if they go ahead with this appeal and if they are successful in putting a temporary stop to our build they'll be putting our builder out of business, his employees lose their job, and all other subbies are stuffed too.

I'm quite over it and am prepared to have to live with nasty neighbours. I really don't see how the people who want to build in the future will be able to as there are only so many builders here and all of them, whilst competitors, are all quite tight. This is a very small town and news travels fast. He has already ruined his reputation here and I really suspect he'll have to sell his block anyway.


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## Boggo (17 April 2013)

I lived in the Adelaide hills until a few years ago and the place I had there had a sloping away block which meant my decking at the back was a second storey level.
There was a vacant block next door and some guy from Sydney bought it unseen except for photos because his wife wanted to move back to Adelaide.

They built a single level house which we now overlooked at their roof level. Shortly after they moved in this character started to spell out what he wanted from the neighbours on each side. In our case he wanted us to enclose the side of our decking because we could see in his windows from the deck.
I passed him off after his first visit hoping he would just forget it, he came back though, this time stating he had discussed it with the council and a lawyer.

I took him out the back and discussed various options with him. I told him I would organise a few quotes and did he want them sent directly to him or did he want me to drop them off when I had all of them.
He looked a bit puzzled until I said that I was willing to do what he wanted and get the quotes but that he was paying for it.
He really fired up then with threats of lawyers, council engineers and went on to describe how I would have to remove my floodlighting etc.

I basically told him where to go and that was it, never heard another thing from the useless clot. He sold up about a year later.

These clowns can ruin your life if you let them.


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## gordon2007 (18 April 2013)

In an interesting twist, our 'friend' just called in for a cup of  tea, as he often does. Talked about several things but nothing about the impending legal case. In an ironic twist, he's asked my wife if she can do his books for him over this coming weekend. 

Of note though is he did mention about he's just withdrawn from another legal case he was involved with as it was 'getting too expensive' and said it's a bit silly to sue just on a principle. 

I'm interpreting this as a signal he's possibly thinking of giving up and trying to make amends now.


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## Gringotts Bank (18 April 2013)

gordon2007 said:


> In an interesting twist, our 'friend' just called in for a cup of  tea, as he often does. Talked about several things but nothing about the impending legal case. In an ironic twist, he's asked my wife if she can do his books for him over this coming weekend.
> 
> Of note though is he did mention about he's just withdrawn from another legal case he was involved with as it was 'getting too expensive' and said it's a bit silly to sue just on a principle.
> 
> I'm interpreting this as a signal he's possibly thinking of giving up and trying to make amends now.




Yeh, he will drop it.  And now you know what was stressing him (a separate issue altogether).  Well done!  Holding off worked for you.


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## gordon2007 (18 April 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Yeh, he will drop it.  And now you know what was stressing him (a separate issue altogether).  Well done!  Holding off worked for you.




One can hope. But I'm not taking that to the bank yet.


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## gordon2007 (18 April 2013)

Or perhaps he's dropping out of  that case to save his money for this case


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## Gringotts Bank (18 April 2013)

gordon2007 said:


> One can hope. But I'm not taking that to the bank yet.




I wouldn't either.  One wrong step from you and it's ruined.  He's offered the olive branch, and he obviously trusts you.  Continue the "do-nothing" approach, I reckon.  Finish his books and expect nothing in return.  You'll get your view.


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## moXJO (18 April 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> I wouldn't either.  One wrong step from you and it's ruined.  He's offered the olive branch, and he obviously trusts you.  Continue the "do-nothing" approach, I reckon.  Finish his books and expect nothing in return.  You'll get your view.




Agree, being civil saves dollars in the long run. Personally I find his attitude a bit tosser like considering he is taking this to court. But grit your teeth and let him lose a few more coins on lawyers.


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## gordon2007 (18 April 2013)

Well, that didn't work. Our 'friend' just called in again. 

Went on to say he's continuing with the appeal and that it's nothing personal. I tried to show him exactly where he was wrong with his views on this case but there's just no talking sense to him. Oh well...All we can do now is just wait and see if they actually follow through with it all.


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## banco (18 April 2013)

gordon2007 said:


> Well, that didn't work. Our 'friend' just called in again.
> 
> Went on to say he's continuing with the appeal and that it's nothing personal. I tried to show him exactly where he was wrong with his views on this case but there's just no talking sense to him. Oh well...All we can do now is just wait and see if they actually follow through with it all.




I'm a lawyer but obviously can't give you specific advice.  Has he actually filed a statement of claim?  If he's represented he'd be looking at $20,000 minimum to run the case.  He'd have to be pretty determined and/or have deep pockets to be willing to spend that kind of money on a planning dispute.


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## gordon2007 (18 April 2013)

banco said:


> I'm a lawyer but obviously can't give you specific advice.  Has he actually filed a statement of claim?  If he's represented he'd be looking at $20,000 minimum to run the case.  He'd have to be pretty determined and/or have deep pockets to be willing to spend that kind of money on a planning dispute.




They haven't actually filed the appeal yet. They have until May 12. It's really starting to crap me off now. Mostly not because I'll have a delay of a house, but because our builder only builds one house at a time and as he was planning on building ours, he now has no work lined up. 

They have hired a lawyer already and have told us to move the house back or else they'll appeal the process. I agree with you about how much $$$ he'll spend, actually thinking it'll cost more. 

In an ironic twist, the same lawyer he has hired tried to sue him a few years ago about another property. In that case someone else was suing him in regards to a fence. Our 'friend' actually defeated this lawyer and won the case and he didn't even have counsel. It just gets more comical every day.


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## drsmith (18 April 2013)

gordon2007 said:


> They haven't actually filed the appeal yet. They have until May 12. It's really starting to crap me off now. Mostly not because I'll have a delay of a house, but because our builder only builds one house at a time and as he was planning on building ours, he now has no work lined up.



Have you halted building ?

I hope not. That would send the strongest message in my view.

When next the discussion comes up, advise him it's nothing personal and enjoy the cuppa.


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## gordon2007 (18 April 2013)

drsmith said:


> Have you halted building ?
> 
> I hope not. That would send the strongest message in my view.
> 
> When next the discussion comes up, advise him it's nothing personal and enjoy the cuppa.




There are two approvals needed when building. The first and main approval is development approval. That we have. After that the builder needs to get his approval. That is normally a rubber stamp job. It is this that they now won't grant due to wanting to protect themselves against possible legal action. 

We have done all the ground clearly and soil. In a bad twist for us, our builder only sought his approval last week as he was away finishing up another job. I certainly hold nothing against our builder but had he only sought his approval just a few days earlier we'd be away building already. 

I have a meeting with council ceo tomorrow to plead our case in obtaining his approval. If successful then it will start monday.


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## moXJO (18 April 2013)

Plant a couple of trees out the front to block his view


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## drsmith (18 April 2013)

gordon2007 said:


> I have a meeting with council ceo tomorrow to plead our case in obtaining his approval. If successful then it will start monday.



To be honest, I find the whole thing quiet bizarre.

How on the one hand can they as neighbours be as friendly as they are, asking favours on one hand and on the other try to influence your building plans the way they have? They've got a hide.

I ultimately wonder if it's all bluff. When building starts (all going well with council ceo tomorrow), you'll know soon enough.


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## gordon2007 (18 April 2013)

drsmith said:


> To be honest, I find the whole thing quiet bizarre.




Yep, preaching to the choir here. I've never been in such a freakish event in my life.


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## gordon2007 (20 April 2013)

Sigh  
Now an email from lawyer stating I'm rude for not replying to their 'official' letter and that our plans are a 'detriment' and again if I don't move it they will litigate. I'm actually done being upset and am now quite amused by it all. This lawyer seems like a total goof ball. 

I've been to the council ceo. They are just checking with their legal team to make sure everything was done correct and then will give our builder his approval this week. Then full steam ahead.


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## DocK (20 April 2013)

Your "friend" next door sounds to me like a total bully - and I suspect he's trying to bully/bluff you into doing what he wants with the threat of litigation.  It also sounds as though he has a habit of resorting to legal action whenever he feels aggrieved.  

My take on the situation as you've presented it is that he built his house on his block to suit his idea of its ideal position, without taking into account that the vacant blocks on either side of him were not his to control.  If he chose to set his house back further from the boundary than he needed to, and indeed further back than most/all of the other houses on the street, than he miscalculated badly and is now faced with having to confront the fact that he made a rather large error.  Some people don't like to be wrong, and will go to ridiculous lengths to avoid being proven wrong.  His method seems to be to intimidate you into situating your house into a position where he can be "right".  Heaven knows how he's convinced the owner of the other vacant block to join him!

His actions do not sound like those of a genuine friend to me.  It would be sheer folly for you and your wife to compromise your future enjoyment of the retirement home you've planned, not to mention that deliberately reducing the value of your investment by situating it further back than other homes in the street would be madness.  Your neighbour has no control over what may happen on the other vacant block - as you say, its owner may sell it, or change his mind once he sees the other homes in the street and build as close to the street as he can - how would you feel if you gave in to your "friend's" demands now only to have that happen?

If I was in your position I would write your "friend" a letter politely expressing my disappointment in his tactics and behaviour, and setting out the reasons I felt his demands to be out of order.  I would then proceed to build my home where I wanted as soon as permitted to do so by council.  I suspect that once he sees you and/or council won't be intimidated into acceding to his demands he'll drop the legal action.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if he then sold up, rather than have to live with the proof of his own error.


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## moXJO (20 April 2013)

gordon2007 said:


> Sigh
> Now an email from lawyer stating I'm rude for not replying to their 'official' letter and that our plans are a 'detriment' and again if I don't move it they will litigate. I'm actually done being upset and am now quite amused by it all. This lawyer seems like a total goof ball.
> 
> I've been to the council ceo. They are just checking with their legal team to make sure everything was done correct and then will give our builder his approval this week. Then full steam ahead.




Maybe talk to a lawyer so you can get an idea of what you can do (like sue) if he does manage to put a halt on building (which I doubt very much). Surely the builder would have some kind of case if it was put on pause.


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## drsmith (20 April 2013)

gordon2007 said:


> Sigh
> Now an email from lawyer stating I'm rude for not replying to their 'official' letter and that our plans are a 'detriment' and again if I don't move it they will litigate. I'm actually done being upset and am now quite amused by it all. This lawyer seems like a total goof ball.



He's fishing for information. Anything that might give him a toe in the door. Continued silence is best in my view.

As Khan once said upon request for communications  (1min20sec), 



> Let them eat static.






Unlike Khan though, your position is one of defence, not attack.



gordon2007 said:


> I've been to the council ceo. They are just checking with their legal team to make sure everything was done correct and then will give our builder his approval this week. Then full steam ahead.





If you've been keeping notes, it might ultimately be worthy of a book.


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## MrBurns (20 April 2013)

drsmith said:


> He's fishing for information. Anything that might give him a toe in the door. Continued silence is best in my view..




Absolutely, just do not respond at all, that's exactly what they'd do to you if it suited them.


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## Whiskers (21 April 2013)

gordon2007 said:


> Sigh
> Now an email from lawyer stating I'm rude for not replying to their 'official' letter and that our plans are a 'detriment' and again if I don't move it they will litigate. I'm actually done being upset and am now quite amused by it all. This lawyer seems like a total goof ball.
> 
> I've been to the council ceo. They are just checking with their legal team to make sure everything was done correct and then will give our builder his approval this week. Then full steam ahead.




That's the way gordon2007.

I'd say don't respond to the lawyers letter and email yourself, except to maybe ask/clarify what grounds they intent to litigate on. 

If there are no 'reasonable' grounds as it appears, that may be grounds for you/your lawyer to counter with a complaint of abuse/harrassement. Further, if (your lawyer) considers their demands/litigation to have no honest claim of right and or is intended to defraud you, there may be grounds for criminal action and or disciplinary against their lawyer.

Something to consider if they become too much of a pain in the @rse.


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## gordon2007 (4 May 2013)

Just a quick update. 

Have just yesterday got full council approval to start the build. We'll now go ahead as planned. 

As for the lawyers letters, have also just received another one yesterday basically stating the same crap along with another 7 day limit demanding I respond to him. It gave me a good chuckle reading it. I find it quite humourous that they keep moving their deadline back. I shall just store that letter with the others and not respond.

Hopefully we can be in there in time for next summer.


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## lindsayf (4 May 2013)

This guy seems to be a manipulative narcissistic bully.  I wonder if you will let him into your house or trust a word he says again?  You have certainly given him the benefit of the doubt and been very patient with him.  BUt he has abused this response from you.  He was wanting information from you the day he came and requested assistance from your wife.  He may be confused by his own behaviour (ie other stressors etc) or this form of 'freind one day foe another day' may be a deliberate unsettling tactic he has used before.  Anyway..he has made it clear he is not be be trusted.

Hope the build goes to plan, it seems by far the best way to go then he will see you are not vulnerable to his manipulations and hopefully eventually give up.


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## gordon2007 (1 June 2013)

Just a quick update on building progress and legalities. Our house is well and truly on it's way. Slab has been poured and trusses are up. Our 'friend' today came over. Apologised 1001 times stating he completely misunderstood everything. Their appeal has been dropped and everything is well on it's way now.

As for his friendship, I'm inclined to forgive but will definitely keep my guard up.


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## MrBurns (1 June 2013)

gordon2007 said:


> Just a quick update on building progress and legalities. Our house is well and truly on it's way. Slab has been poured and trusses are up. Our 'friend' today came over. Apologised 1001 times stating he completely misunderstood everything. Their appeal has been dropped and everything is well on it's way now.
> 
> As for his friendship, I'm inclined to forgive but will definitely keep my guard up.




Congrats, nothing works as well as winning...


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## Julia (1 June 2013)

Good to hear, Gordon.  You have a generous heart, hopefully tempered with some wariness.


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