# Funds being withdrawn from Pepperstone account



## whau (17 August 2016)

I need help!!

Pepperstone has scammed me a lot of money, started by withdrawing money from my account in May 2016 then now they have taken a lot more money out of my account. 

Yesterday alone they took AUD$84.46 out of my account. Last week they took AUD$123.67 and the week before $42.09

I also noticed when I deposited additional $2000 a month ago, they would take more money out. They claimed is for dividends and price adjustment. Basically back in March when i first traded, nothing happens till May (2 months later). I noticed they started withdrawing money outta my account everyday for dividends. 

I only had 3 short contracts DJ30 and 6 short contracts US500. I first had $4700 balance 8 weeks ago + $2000 deposited a month ago, Total $6700. Now I barely have less than $1900 left in my account. I told them several times to stop scamming me. The respond is always them same  "That it's just price adjustment, you get paid the same if you long, you don't lose money at all". Also they can't provide me how they calculate the dividend. Basically they just take as much as they want from my account then say it's price adjustment. 

I know is all bull****. They are scam broker. They have already taken AUD$513 out of my account in 3 months. No way they will deposit me AUD$513 in my account if I long those trades. The high swap fees alone I got charged over $222 in 3 months + further $513 (withdraw for dividends everyday). All happens in 3 months.

I've attached 2 pictures, u can see how they withdrew money everyday. The money scam just got bigger and bigger. 
What to do? They took control of my account just like other traders had reviewed them a broker scam.


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## robusta (17 August 2016)

Sorry this has happened to you.

Step 1, Contact them and close your account.

Step 2, Contact your bank and get them blocked from making withdrawals,


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...t/news-story/8ac5d73db83b8ce41b75079ffb319a04


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## Macro Polo (17 August 2016)

whau said:


> I need help!!
> 
> Pepperstone has scammed me a lot of money, started by withdrawing money from my account in May 2016 then now they have taken a lot more money out of my account.
> 
> ...




It just looks like you were trading a stock market with a short position and got charged a dividend - that is normal because the index paid a dividend to long positions, and therefore charges it to short positions.

What was the scam part of it?


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## cynic (17 August 2016)

whau said:


> I need help!!
> 
> Pepperstone has scammed me a lot of money, started by withdrawing money from my account in May 2016 then now they have taken a lot more money out of my account.
> 
> ...




With short contracts on the cash CFDs, one can reasonably expect to be charged dividend adjustments. It would of course be helpful if the provider/broker willingly furnishes some information demonstrating the validity of such cnarges.

As far as I can tell, from the information you've provided, the charges to your account might actually be correct.


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## minwa (17 August 2016)

With 6k why are you trading indices with OTC CFDs ?

Move to futures(minis).


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## whau (17 August 2016)

Macro Polo said:


> It just looks like you were trading a stock market with a short position and got charged a dividend - that is normal because the index paid a dividend to long positions, and therefore charges it to short positions.
> 
> What was the scam part of it?




I believe they use dividend a convenient way to steal money out of my account (take much more than they should have). $513 in 3 months doesn't sound right? First 2 months, nothing happened, 3rd month onward started taking small amount out, then now take as much as they want. Market up almost 7 weeks and they took $513 for price adjustment? 

I asked them to provide me how they calculated the dividend charge, they said they couldn't show me. So they can take money but can't tell u how.


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## minwa (17 August 2016)

*I only had 3 short contracts DJ30 and 6 short contracts US500.*

I'm more interested in how you made profit with only holding shorts while the market grinded up ! Dosn't sound like you traded in and out with only 9 contracts.


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## whau (17 August 2016)

minwa said:


> With 6k why are you trading indices with OTC CFDs ?
> 
> Move to futures(minis).





I was initially trading forex, currency pairs. All good then decided to try indices but without knowing such cost as high swap fees+ dividend. First 2 months no dividend charge then 3rd month onward got hit with dividend everyday. They didnt mention anywhere about that. Trade demo account it doesn't show dividend/price adjustment till trade real account. Don't think they have futures (minis). All i saw is indices (minimum contract size is 1)


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## minwa (17 August 2016)

whau said:


> I was initially trading forex, currency pairs. All good then decided to try indices but without knowing such cost as high swap fees+ dividend. First 2 months no dividend charge then 3rd month onward got hit with dividend everyday. They didnt mention anywhere about that. Trade demo account it doesn't show dividend/price adjustment till trade real account. Don't think they have futures (minis). All i saw is indices (minimum contract size is 1)




Ah I see, yeah you picked a really bad instrument (OTC CFD) to trade indices. Basically you're trading against the broker in their own market.


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## whau (17 August 2016)

minwa said:


> *I only had 3 short contracts DJ30 and 6 short contracts US500.*
> 
> I'm more interested in how you made profit with only holding shorts while the market grinded up ! Dosn't sound like you traded in and out with only 9 contracts.




I first traded currencies with $3000 deposit in total then up to $4700 equity & balance before i moved to open short DJ30 and US500 back in March. Of course i lost when market grinded up then further deposited $2000 to keep my trades. Now i barely had less than $2000 left after $513 dividend charge + $222 swap charge + commission.


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## minwa (17 August 2016)

whau said:


> I first traded currencies with $3000 deposit in total then up to $4700 equity & balance before i moved to open short DJ30 and US500 back in March. Of course i lost when market grinded up then further deposited $2000 to keep my trades. Now i barely had less than $2000 left after $513 dividend charge + $222 swap charge + commission.




That sucks - but unlikely you will get any back, when you opened your account you pretty much signed on the forms that they can do anything with the numbers lol it's their market. 

Take it as a lesson, rebuild and go at it again in FX or futures. You did well initially turning a profit in FX - most never do.

Another example of OTC broker doing whatever they is I heard personally is FXCM manipulating the spreads and rejecting orders to stop a position on a very profitable trader's account, to the tune of causing a $40k+ trade loss that would have never been stopped in a real market because price never went there.


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## cynic (17 August 2016)

whau said:


> I believe they use dividend a convenient way to steal money out of my account (take much more than they should have). $513 in 3 months doesn't sound right? First 2 months, nothing happened, 3rd month onward started taking small amount out, then now take as much as they want. Market up almost 7 weeks and they took $513 for price adjustment?
> 
> I asked them to provide me how they calculated the dividend charge, they said they couldn't show me. So they can take money but can't tell u how.




Whilst I have my reservations about the integrity of the industry, it is common practice in said industry to make adjustments in lieu of dividends and interest for cash CFDs.

Unfortunately, a dearth of support staff, able to comprehend and explain the workings behind those charges, is also alarmingly commonplace.

However, this is  no excuse for wrongful accusations of fraudulent behaviour!

Did you happen to read the relevant sections of their product disclosure and/or client agreement documentation?


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## Macro Polo (17 August 2016)

whau said:


> I believe they use dividend a convenient way to steal money out of my account (take much more than they should have). $513 in 3 months doesn't sound right? First 2 months, nothing happened, 3rd month onward started taking small amount out, then now take as much as they want. Market up almost 7 weeks and they took $513 for price adjustment?
> 
> I asked them to provide me how they calculated the dividend charge, they said they couldn't show me. So they can take money but can't tell u how.





It would be pretty easy to check this - all you need to do is open a buy trade on the same index in the same trading volume as your sell trades, then check the dividend for both. The dividend amount for the long position should be exactly the same as the short position, but in the opposite direction. Have you tried that?


I've been using Pepperstone for a few years and not had any major issues - to be honest I doubt there is anything dodgy going on, but worst case scenario you can check what the dividend amounts should be by calculating it manually or checking other brokers.


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## whau (17 August 2016)

Macro Polo said:


> It would be pretty easy to check this - all you need to do is open a buy trade on the same index in the same trading volume as your sell trades, then check the dividend for both. The dividend amount for the long position should be exactly the same as the short position, but in the opposite direction. Have you tried that?
> 
> 
> I've been using Pepperstone for a few years and not had any major issues - to be honest I doubt there is anything dodgy going on, but worst case scenario you can check what the dividend amounts should be by calculating it manually or checking other brokers.




There is no point if my account has been watched and scammed by them.

What I need is someone here who has long US30 or US500 from May-Aug period to check if they got paid the same amount as what I  got charged. Or whether they got paid at all? Here's a short list of money withdrawn from my account. I can provide longer list all the way back to May. All in AUD, 1 contract size as minimum

23110101    2016.08.17 00:00:00	balance	US30 Dividend 21621405      -26.52
23058039	 2016.08.16 00:00:00	balance	US30 Dividend 21621405	-3.21
22945371	 2016.08.11 00:00:00	balance	US30 Dividend 21565900	-3.38
22905367	 2016.08.10 00:00:00	balance	US30 Dividend 21621405	-20.89
22741781	 2016.08.04 00:00:00	balance	US30 Dividend 21621405	-5.14
22689603	 2016.08.03 00:00:00	balance	US30 Dividend 21565900	-5.04
22032730	 2016.07.20 00:00:00	balance	US30 Dividend 16225326	-6.11


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## whau (17 August 2016)

whau said:


> There is no point if my account has been watched and scammed by them.
> 
> What I need is someone here who has long US30 or US500 from May-Aug period to check if they got paid the same amount as what I  got charged. Or whether they got paid at all? Here's a short list of money withdrawn from my account. I can provide longer list all the way back to May. All in AUD, 1 contract size as minimum
> 
> ...




Also when I say someone, I mean someone who's not pepperstone staff who pretend to be a trader here. I mean real trader or client of pepperstone.


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## CanOz (17 August 2016)

whau said:


> Also when I say someone, I mean someone who's not pepperstone staff who pretend to be a trader here. I mean real trader or client of pepperstone.




Honestly what are the odds of finding someone that had the same position on as you??

If you want to get to the bottom of this, i'd suggest you read the fine print, get the brokers staff on the phone and ask them to explain everything to you. 

I have a feeling that it is your ignorance, lack of proper preparation and understanding of the CFD terms and conditions that has landed you in this mess. You likely should thank your lucky stars you weren't trading lumber futures and ended up taking delivery of a couple hundred thousand Bd. Feet of timber!


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## Joe Blow (17 August 2016)

I've edited the title of this thread as there appears to be some confusion about whether funds were withdrawn by Pepperstone for legitimate reasons or in error.

Whau, can I suggest that you contact Pepperstone support and discuss the situation with them. There are many reasons why funds may be withdrawn from an account and I think it's important that you get to the bottom of the situation before accusing a company of being a scam.


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## mjim (18 August 2016)

whau said:


> I need help!!
> 
> Pepperstone has scammed me a lot of money, started by withdrawing money from my account in May 2016 then now they have taken a lot more money out of my account.
> 
> ...




So you were short CFD based on DJ30 Index ( or CFD on DJ Futures?) When I asked the same questions to some of the big CFD providers the answer was bit vague ! WHAT IS THE UNDERLYING? becasue the index itself is not trad able thE CFD has to based either on the the ETF  ( which does not trade after the Equity hrs) or the Underlying Futures contracts ( trades 23+ hrs)
Can somebody please explain if a person uses such Index CFDs for shorting (instead of using the actual Index Futures on more centralized exchanges like CME/ CBOT etc) Why would they be charged dividend? The OTC broker does not actually go and short the 30 stock! or in case of S&P 500 ,all 500 stocks.... in any case specially with Index it is better to trade the actual futures contract , you get a reasonable leverage and transparency!  Why bother with OTC CFD? for stock CFD  may be it is useful for Leverage and shorting ease...even in that stick to DMA, WIth Currency also there are very liquid Futures on global exchanges!


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## menaleefx (18 August 2016)

As long as we close the trade before roll over we don't have to pay (my broker charge it as swap ), i don't use pepperstone but check symbol property  on your mt4 where you could see the charges


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## Wysiwyg (19 August 2016)

whau said:


> I asked them to provide me how they calculated the dividend charge, they said they couldn't show me. So they can take money but can't tell u how.



I had + 600 AUD deducted for holding a short DOW Index position for three days by a CFD provider in the past. It added to my loss on the position and really pithed me off. I don't hold short positions on share Indices very long now. Solution is avoid.


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## Jason Rogers (20 August 2016)

minwa said:


> Another example of OTC broker doing whatever they is I heard personally is FXCM manipulating the spreads and rejecting orders to stop a position on a very profitable trader's account, to the tune of causing a $40k+ trade loss that would have never been stopped in a real market because price never went there.




Hi Minwa,

Unfortunately, what you heard about FXCM is incorrect. On the No Dealing Desk (NDD) forex execution we provide to all Standard and Active Trader accounts, we offset each client order one for one with the best prices from competing liquidity providers.

With the NDD model, FXCM doesn't take the market risk on the other side of client trades, so we don't profit from client losses, or lose from client profits. Therefore, we have no reason to manipulate spreads or reject stop orders like you claim.

Instead, FXCM makes money from client trading volume. That means we want profitable traders, because they trade more. We even offer commission discounts to high volume traders.


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## mjim (20 August 2016)

Jason Rogers said:


> Hi Minwa,
> 
> Unfortunately, what you heard about FXCM is incorrect. On the No Dealing Desk (NDD) forex execution we provide to all Standard and Active Trader accounts, we offset each client order one for one with the best prices from competing liquidity providers.
> 
> ...



SO FXCM
with your Index CFD what is the underlying? Index or the Futures?
Index does not trade same hrs as the Futures contract So if it is based on Index where does the "liquidity provider" get the price from?  and what is the advantage over trading the underlying futures contract? does your CFD offer bigger leverage? tighter spread ( ES for example is 1 tick on exchange?) lower fees? ES ( contract size 2180x $50 ) one can trade for 1:16+ 0.85 or even lower one way? what is yours ?


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## minwa (20 August 2016)

Jason Rogers said:


> Hi Minwa,
> 
> Unfortunately, what you heard about FXCM is incorrect. On the No Dealing Desk (NDD) forex execution we provide to all Standard and Active Trader accounts, we offset each client order one for one with the best prices from competing liquidity providers.
> 
> ...




Sorry, I heard from someone with integrity who has no reason to lie. You working for them is obliged to defend them, understandable. People can make up their own mind. One should google "FXCM fines" though to get more info.


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## Ina amran (19 October 2016)

Macro Polo said:


> It just looks like you were trading a stock market with a short position and got charged a dividend - that is normal because the index paid a dividend to long positions, and therefore charges it to short positions.
> 
> What was the scam part of it?





 Is the dividend charged or paid on all positions one holds for the day
Or is it only on over night positions???


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## Macro Polo (20 October 2016)

Ina amran said:


> Is the dividend charged or paid on all positions one holds for the day
> Or is it only on over night positions???




It should only be when a) that index actually has some companies that are going ex-dividend; and b) if you hold that trade overnight from the day before ex-dividend to the actual day the company/index goes ex-dividend.

It just gets charged during the break between trading from one day to the next, so that means only on positions held over that time.


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## T0BY (25 October 2016)

whau said:


> There is no point if my account has been watched and scammed by them.
> 
> What I need is someone here who has long US30 or US500 from May-Aug period to check if they got paid the same amount as what I  got charged. Or whether they got paid at all? Here's a short list of money withdrawn from my account. I can provide longer list all the way back to May. All in AUD, 1 contract size as minimum
> 
> ...



Although I wasn't long either US30 or US500 during the mentioned period there should be no doubt the swap rate would defiantly not be equal. Negative swap rates are always greater, regardless of instrument, to eliminate any hedge swap arbitrage possibility.
In fact, screenshot of Pepperstone's swap rate on US30 shows it's negative both long and short (and you would have actually been debited more from your account had you been long if these rates are indicative of what the rates were during the period you're referring to).
I believe Pepperstone is a sound broker for forex, but if you're looking to take advantage of price fluctuations over commodities, index or other fungibles there are defiantly better avenues available as others have mentioned.


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## minwa (7 February 2017)

Jason Rogers said:


> Hi Minwa,
> 
> Unfortunately, what you heard about FXCM is incorrect. On the No Dealing Desk (NDD) forex execution we provide to all Standard and Active Trader accounts, we offset each client order one for one with the best prices from competing liquidity providers.
> 
> ...




I understand it is Jason Roger's job to lie all over the internet, but truth eventually comes out when you're on the radar of authorities. 

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fx...r-taking-positions-against-clients-2017-02-06

_FXCM, under Niv’s and Ahdout’s direction and control, misrepresented to its retail forex customers that when they traded forex on FXCM’s No Dealing Desk platform, FXCM would have no conflict of interest, the Order finds. _

Anyone with account with them not scrambling for withdrawing funds deserves to have their money taken. Lol at FXCM stock down 20% after hours trading.


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## Valued (7 February 2017)

I never used FXCM since I thought their advertisments were unfair and misleading (well that's not the only reason, but one of them). They shouldn't be allowed to tell people they can trade CFDs for $50 even if you say that losses can exceed deposits. That's technically true but that's like saying to someone "you can jump off a cliff, but that may cause death". Jumping off a cliff will almost certainly cause death and trading CFDs with just $50 will almost certainly create losses that exceed deposits. It's not "may" it's almost 100%.


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## ggkfc (7 February 2017)

minwa said:


> I understand it is Jason Roger's job to lie all over the internet, but truth eventually comes out when you're on the radar of authorities.
> 
> http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fx...r-taking-positions-against-clients-2017-02-06
> 
> ...



Just a 7million USD fine for "proper" behaviour


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## T0BY (7 February 2017)

ggkfc said:


> Just a 7million USD fine for "proper" behaviour



They're banned from operating in the USA. Now they're in the process of selling all their US clients to Gain who operate B book anyway, but at least they're honest about it. (?)


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## minwa (7 February 2017)

http://ir.fxcm.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=1010639
_
"FXCM will for the interim period continue to service its U.S. customers and to provide top quality trade execution pending the customer-account sale and business withdrawal._
_
FXCM wants to stress that these settlements have no impact on any customer of FXCM’s global businesses.  FXCM and its global subsidiaries will continue to provide excellent execution and competitive pricing to its customers overseas through its award-winning technology, customer service and trading tools."
_
Right..I am sure all the customers believe the "excellent execution and competitive pricing" part when they are profiting from your opposite trades.


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## T0BY (7 February 2017)

To be honest I assumed all retail forex brokers were to some extent "bucket shops". And the ones that claimed to be stp, ndd, or ecn just passed orders onto a third party price aggregation service, who then operated an A book and  B book.


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## Garpal Gumnut (7 February 2017)

*Run*



* Run! :* 


AWAY from the city

And into the sun, 

Out to the country, 

Run! Run! Run! 


Run in the raindrops! 

Run ’neath the trees! 

Run little races

Run

With each little breeze! 


Run down the hillside, 


Run up the lane; 

Run through the meadow, 

Then run back again! 


Run and be merry

All through the day! 

Run to the country, 

Away! Away

..........With thanks to Mary Daunt.

gg


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## Jason Rogers (14 February 2017)

Hi Everyone,

While I can't comment on the NFA or CFTC complaint specifically due to the nature of our settlement, I can say that we have settled with the NFA and CFTC without admitting or denying any of their allegations or claims. I can also say that Effex Capital is no longer pricing FXCM's NDD forex price feed. It's worth noting that FXCM would not have suffered more than $200 millon dollars in losses during the SNB flash crash had it been taking the other side of client trades – unlike so many of the DD firms in the industry.

Part of our settlement with the NFA and CFTC was to close our US subsidiary, but there will be no changes for clients outside of the US.

Since FXCM US has not been a contributor to overall profits for the firm over the past few years, FXCM will target significant cost cutting by closing the US entity. Specifically, withdrawing from this business will free approximately $52 million in capital. We will use the proceeds from any sale of the US accounts, as well as the large amount of regulatory capital currently tied up, to reduce the balance of our loan from Leucadia.

With the reduction of this loan balance, along with sales of non-core assets that were previously announced, FXCM could be in a position to fully pay off the Leucadia loan before the end of this year. With this exit, FXCM will be in a better position to service our international customers and focus on our profitable subsidiaries including FXCM Australia.

Our full financials can be found here and we will announce our Q4 and full year 2016 financials in the next few weeks.

I can also discuss with you FXCM's execution practices outside of the US. FXCM uses 16 liquidity providers to create a best bid best offer price stream for clients. LPs selected to price retail clients are forced to adhere to an extremely high standard of execution beyond just price – including consistently low rejection rates, low latency, minimum quote sizes and high fill ratios even during market events.

We have made our execution study public in the UK which can be viewed here and is a transparent comparison of FXCM's actual execution vs top tier futures brokers and the interbank market.


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