# Am I suited to investing?



## dead trader (27 July 2010)

Hi guys and girls,

Ever since I can remember I have known that I am different. I never really quite fit in at school with everyone else. Their belief systems and my belief system didn't quite match up. 

My parents officially splitting up was the catalyst behind me starting to question life itself. Questions that often would begin with "why".

I started experiencing an out of touch with reality kind of thing. I felt depressed, suicidal and even went through self-harm.

All this happened throughout high school. I really only started to get better when I left high school. 

I did a few courses at TAFE, never completed one properly, I'd either withdraw or fail just one subject (subconciously perhaps maybe I was afraid of success).

Anyway, this January I started working in my first real job in electrical engineering, basically I don't think I am suited to the 9 to 5 daily office grind. I'm 21 and my doctors have finally decided that I have bipolar disorder.

The Myers Brigg personality test indicated that I am an ENFP (idealist champion) type person. To be honest, I don't believe I have bipolar, but that I'm just a person who is much more intuitive, sensitive and inquisitive than most.

Anyway, my perception of trading is that it's very much a game of psychological warfare against your own mind. 

My skills:
- good saver (I save on average $200 a week into an account that does not get touched)
- willing to learn and a quick learner
- humble
- asks good questions
- makes decisions quickly but also can modify them if new information is available

My weaknesses:
- is somewhat hesitant to 'pull the trigger'
- sometimes makes an analysis of the situation too quickly

I am someone who thinks a lot, and can be a bit fiery towards issues that are close to my heart. I have read a lot of self help psychology books, never finishing one completely, rather I read to get the information required. This may also be a weakness, as it's hard to get a general understanding with only bits and pieces.

I'd like some of your thoughts on whether it's possible for me to be a good trader. By good I mean consistently generate at least $5000 net a week. I would like to position trade or intraday trade the options or futures markets. 

I'm willing to learn and apply your suggestions as to what can make me a better person as well as a better trader/investor.

Share your ?


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## explod (27 July 2010)

How long have you thought about being a trader ?

You would need a bankroll of more than $200,000 to consistently make 5xgs a week without risking your capital and even then there are no guarantees.

It took me seven years to realise daytrading was not for me.  You have to live with the screen.  Miraculously I did not lose, had some shocking individual losses but some spectacular lucky wins to even it all out.  My accountant freaked.   But in my second last year of it gained 80%.   Since going to fundamental investing I can now sleep at night and forget the computer as I wish.

But to just jump in, have a very big think.  There are many very good traders here on ASF so soak it all up for a year or two and see.


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## Huitzii (27 July 2010)

Tech A and julia enter the room shaking their heads


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## Buckfont (27 July 2010)

Pancakes are good but greasy ones? I have my doubts. Heaven help us. I`d start with a good psychologist first, it would be money well spent.


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## vincent191 (27 July 2010)

Where do people get the idea that trading shares/futures/fx/cfd/options etc will generate thousands of dollars of profit consistently, with no risk and a minimal outlay of capital? If it was this easy we will all be billionaires.


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## Julia (27 July 2010)

Huitzii said:


> Tech A and julia enter the room shaking their heads


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## pixel (27 July 2010)

Pixel follows hot on Elvis' heels, both leaving the building in a dead heat.


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## Tysonboss1 (27 July 2010)

Your original question was "Am I suited to investing", But then in your post you only talked about trading. There is a big difference between the two, before you start you should learn the difference.

I recommend reading a book called the intelligent investor by Benjiman Graham, And also watching every warren buffett speech, interveiw and documentary you can find on youtube.

Explode is right Trading is a mugs game. focus on investing rather than speculating.


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## Julia (27 July 2010)

explod said:


> How long have you thought about being a trader ?
> 
> You would need a bankroll of more than $200,000 to consistently make 5xgs a week without risking your capital and even then there are no guarantees.



Explod, $5000 p.w. is $260,000 p.a.  You reckon a capital base of a bit more than $200,000 is going to generate that much?   From a beginner?


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## Julia (27 July 2010)

greasy_pancakes said:


> Anyway, my perception of trading is that it's very much a game of psychological warfare against your own mind.



Your thread title asks if you are suited to *investing.*
Now you refer to *trading.*.
Do you see these two terms as being interchangeable?

You don't provide any idea of your intended capital base from which you plan to generate the $5000 p.w.   What percentage return do you anticipate being able to achieve?


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## Twiddle (27 July 2010)

Tysonboss1 said:


> Explode is right Trading is a mugs game. focus on investing rather than speculating.




This is an interesting comment.

I am too new to trading/investing to have a valid opinion on this. 

Why do you think that Tyson?

Do others here agree?


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## professor_frink (27 July 2010)

Twiddle said:


> This is an interesting comment.
> 
> I am too new to trading/investing to have a valid opinion on this.
> 
> ...




No. Don't worry about Tyson he is just being a troll

However, I do think it's very easy to get that impression - trading does seem to attract more than it's fair share of mugs, so you could therefore interpret it as a mug's game!


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## Timmy (27 July 2010)




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## Tysonboss1 (27 July 2010)

professor_frink said:


> No. Don't worry about Tyson he is just being a troll
> 
> However, I do think it's very easy to get that impression - trading does seem to attract more than it's fair share of mugs, so you could therefore interpret it as a mug's game!




I am actually a bit offended that you have called me a troll, I don't feel that my post was trollish. I simply suggested that their was a big difference between trading and investing and he should learn the difference because it is a very important thing to know.


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## professor_frink (27 July 2010)

Tysonboss1 said:


> I am actually a bit offended that you have called me a troll, I don't feel that my post was trollish. I simply suggested that their was a big difference between trading and investing and he should learn the difference because it is a very important thing to know.




For the record this was what I was commenting on:



Tysonboss1 said:


> *Trading is a mugs game. focus on investing* rather than speculating.




Maybe think a little about what you say if you don't want to be criticised in the future


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## Judd (27 July 2010)

greasy_pancakes said:


> I'd like some of your thoughts on whether it's possible for me to be a good trader. By good I mean consistently generate at least $5000 net a week. I would like to position trade or intraday trade the options or futures markets.




Crikey!  Simply asking such a question raises concerns.


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## Tysonboss1 (27 July 2010)

Twiddle said:


> Why do you think that Tyson?




Because Trading is much more akin to gambling than it is to Investing. Traders make money through share price speculation, they hope to make money by second guessing the market and make assumptions on what the share price will be hours or days later, this is pure speculation.

Investing is the opposite of trading, an investor looks to the asset itself to generate the return over time where traders look to other traders hoping some one will come along and pay a higher price in the short term.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH03WyBpgjU&NR=1

Watch this video from the 1 minute mark, warren does a much better job of explaining it than i do.


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## jersey10 (27 July 2010)

Tysonboss1 said:


> Explode is right Trading is a mugs game. focus on investing rather than speculating.




Aren't investors just long term traders who are too proud to use a stop loss


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## Temjin (27 July 2010)

jersey10 said:


> Aren't investors just long term traders who are too proud to use a stop loss




Spot on.


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## nunthewiser (27 July 2010)

jersey10 said:


> Aren't investors just long term traders who are too proud to use a stop loss




Nope, Not all .

I hold MTS , have done for years , First buy was around the $2.40 mark, i have added to this over the years on varios market dips etc . it proovides a nice income stream via divvies and is a solid growth company which i dare say i will add to again when or if the opportunity arrives ...

again i say not all


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## Tysonboss1 (27 July 2010)

professor_frink said:


> For the record this was what I was commenting on:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe think a little about what you say if you don't want to be criticised in the future




The dictionary defines a "mugs game" as a futile or unprofitable venture.

In my opinion, over time (long term) any form of capital management that relies on regular share trading will become a "futile and unprofitable venture" so yes it is a mugs game.

But just as with poker and horse racing there are a few with such a knack for it they can turn a profit, but most traders will not generate long term returns higher than the average investor no matter how many hours the spend looking at charts, and transaction fees will probally mean their returns will be lower than the average investor who just invested in a basket of average companies and never traded.


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## professor_frink (27 July 2010)

Tysonboss1 said:


> The dictionary defines a "mugs game" as a futile or unprofitable venture.
> 
> In my opinion, over time (long term) any form of capital management that relies on regular share trading will become a "futile and unprofitable venture" so yes it is a mugs game.
> 
> But just as with poker and horse racing there are a few with such a knack for it they can turn a profit, but most traders will not generate long term returns higher than the average investor no matter how many hours the spend looking at charts, and transaction fees will probally mean their returns will be lower than the average investor who just invested in a basket of average companies and never traded.




To be perfectly honest tyson, I'm not overly interested in debating the validity of trading with a random walker! It's been done before and never ends well

Sorry, I withdraw my comments about you trolling earlier, I didn't know where you were coming from until now.

Cheers


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## Tysonboss1 (27 July 2010)

jersey10 said:


> Aren't investors just long term traders who are too proud to use a stop loss




How can you be a trader if you are not trading anything.

If your sole focus is on selling at a future date for a higher price then yes you could be right.

But If for example I find a business and after doing some analisis I find that it earns about $100K a year, if I buy it for $1M because I am happy with a 10% return and hold the asset with the mindset of collecting the $100K profit each year or reinvesting the profit to grow earnings I am involved in investing. The current market value of the business is less important to me once I have bought it than the earnings.

however, if I buy it for $1M with the sole intention of flipping to another trader the next day or week for a higher price then I am a trader.


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## AzzaB80 (27 July 2010)

Sure its an unprofitable venture for those who can't. 

But wow you gotta feel sorry for all those US 'investors'. 10 years later and still underwater.  That's what I call a mugs game


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## Tysonboss1 (27 July 2010)

AzzaB80 said:


> Sure its an unprofitable venture for those who can't.
> 
> But wow you gotta feel sorry for all those US 'investors'. 10 years later and still underwater.  That's what I call a mugs game




which investors?


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## AzzaB80 (27 July 2010)

Tysonboss1 said:


> which investors?




If you invested in the S&P 500 10 years ago you would still be underwater. 

My point is investing in a secular bear market is my idea of a mugs game.


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## Tysonboss1 (27 July 2010)

AzzaB80 said:


> If you invested in the S&P 500 10 years ago you would still be underwater.
> 
> My point is investing in a secular bear market is my idea of a mugs game.




I guess if you invested your entire capital base right at the peak of the market and made no further investments and there was no such thing as dividends then yes you would still be under water.

But that wouldn't be the case for many people.


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## AzzaB80 (27 July 2010)

Tysonboss1 said:


> I guess if you invested your entire capital base right at the peak of the market and made no further investments and there was no such thing as dividends then yes you would still be under water.
> 
> But that wouldn't be the case for many people.




Nup wouldn't even had to invest at the peak. Have look at a 20 year monthly S&P500 chart. I think the majority would have lost money actually. 

To make matters worse the quality stocks didn't really take part in the rally off last years lows.


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## So_Cynical (27 July 2010)

greasy_pancakes said:


> Am I suited to investing?
> 
> My skills:
> - good saver (I save on average $200 a week into an account that does not get touched)
> ...




Hello greasy

As an investor that can see most of your listed skills and weaknesses in myself, i can see how those quality's in myself have worked well for me so perhaps they can work for you too...interesting in that your 2 weakness i immediately saw as strengths in myself.

Throwing 10s of thousands of dollars into the stock market is a great way to get an education of yourself...of course assuming one has the ability and objectivity to analyse there mistakes and make the necessary adjustments.

At your age that's probably not possible, just as your 5K a week goal is probably not possible...for myself to make 5K a week on average, doing what i do now just with bigger numbers, i would need at-least a million to play with i would be playing on white sand beach in Boracay...not the ASX. 

Good luck.


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## CanOz (27 July 2010)

Greasy cakes,

In my view its pretty simple. If you can take losses emotionally, and your account can withstand enough losses, and you learn to let your winners run and snip your losses....its just math. I don't care how you get in, random is fine as long as your win% is over 40% and you winning trades generate more profit than your losing trades generate losses. This had to be beaten into my head from those on the forum and 'elsewhere'.

It works, even in the toughest of markets. Remember its not about being 'right', its about living to play another day. Trading capital has allot to do with this if you want to make a living from it. Again, its math. Risk 1% of capital or less on every trade and you've got a fighting chance to stay in the game.

Work out the math on that and decide if you have the account to stomach the losses.

You don't even need to decide which trades to take, there are hundreds of subscriptions for this.

Cheers,


CanOz


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## brty (27 July 2010)

CanOz,

You are saying that money management alone is an edge in your post. Is that what you really meant to say??

brty


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## CanOz (28 July 2010)

brty said:


> CanOz,
> 
> You are saying that money management alone is an edge in your post. Is that what you really meant to say??
> 
> brty




No, i pay for the edge. Money management makes the edge pay.

CanOz


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## awg (28 July 2010)

Hi OP,

You have asked whether you are suited to investing, but your post indicates trading for a living is your prefered mode.

You indicate you have symptons similar to bipolar disorder.

I would suggest that you have a close look at DSM-IV or similar internet
anaysis of BP symptons,( if you already havent) and you will probably realise that Trading would be hugely risky.

This would resonate with some things you have said, such as inability to concentrate and persevere, mood swings etc.

However, by far the biggest risk occurs if the noted symptom of "grandiosity" manifests itself.

The textbooks are littered with examples of persons who have blown there finances under these conditions.

It is more common than people realise, and behind the headlines lurks BP in many cases.

If you were to take a longer term investment approach, that may be better suited to your temperament.

I cannot see any obstacles to investing, and believe the structure and discipline is a good thing

These are generalised comments of course, everyone is different.

I am not saying it is impossible to trade, and think many such individuals are attracted to this occupation, however, there is a profound extra element of risk that cannot be ignored

Rene Rivkin was a bipolar sufferer, and a debatedly succesful trader, but things didnt end well there 

.


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## moXJO (28 July 2010)

Paper trade while you build up an account to trade with. Worse thing to do is jump in with no experience and lose real money. I would suggest no money trades till you have a system that is profitable on paper.


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## gav (28 July 2010)

awg said:


> Hi OP,I am not saying it is impossible to trade, and think many such individuals are attracted to this occupation, however, *there is a profound extra element of risk that cannot be ignored*




Hi awp, can you please explain what you mean by this?


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## brty (28 July 2010)

Canoz,



> i pay for the edge




Can you explain this please?? Do you mean you buy some subscription service and have success with their choices?? If so, how long have you been doing it for??

brty


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## CanOz (28 July 2010)

brty said:


> Canoz,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That's exactly what i mean, and yes i have success with their choices. They are trade setups. They have an entry, and initial stop loss, as well as a target price. 

I've been doing this for two full years after two full years of less than mediocre trading. 

There are many services like this, google 'stock picks' or 'trade setups' and you'll find oodles.

Pattern traders use these as the edge, there's no secret in picking patterns. In fact the two services i use quite frequently pick the same patterns. Some offer better risk to reward potential than others.

Whether or not you can make the edge pay is in your trade management skills. If the service also provides these you get the benefit of their skills too.

Heres and example of one such service that i do not currently use, but i have heard good things about.

Cheers,


CanOz


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## awg (28 July 2010)

greasy_pancakes said:


> Hi guys and girls,
> 
> I'm 21 and my doctors have finally decided that I have bipolar disorder.
> 
> Share your ?






gav said:


> Hi awp, can you please explain what you mean by this?




Hi Gav, 

In answer to yr question

The poster has stated they have a diagnosis of Bipolar disorder, even though they dont neccesarily agree

The profound extra element of risk is that if they suffer a manic phase, then grandiosity may arise.

This term is associated with individuals losing touch with reality, and very often wrecking their finances in far-fetched flights of fancy.

Very hard to predict.

Extra-Special precautions should be put in place. ( for a trader)

Self-monitoring is not entirely sufficient imo 

The OP mentions making a largish amount per week, which would imply a reasonable capital base, or unrealistic expectations in terms of the learning curve and capital to be a trader.

Even if they had an insufficient amount, say <50k, it would be a shame to see it diminuished, especially if leveraged products were used.

The stories of mania-induced grandiosity can be very amusing, but distressing allround...btw, also accounts for individuals believing they have Messiah-like powers, and many other things as well

Having said that, I am only cautioning a young individual to be very careful, as I am sure there are individuals who have bipolar both diagnosed or not, who trade succesfully


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## gav (28 July 2010)

Cheers awg.


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## nioka (28 July 2010)

AzzaB80 said:


> My point is investing in a secular bear market is my idea of a mugs game.




Is there such a thing as a non secular bear market and if so is it different to an ordinary bear market.

I must be a mug regardless of the difference because I always look for an opportunity to get in when others are getting out. If the fundamentals question the reason why there is selling then I'm happy to get in.


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## mazzatelli (28 July 2010)

greasy_pancakes said:


> The Myers Brigg personality test indicated that I am an ENFP (idealist champion) type person. To be honest, I don't believe I have bipolar, but that I'm just a person who is much more intuitive, sensitive and inquisitive than most.
> 
> Anyway, my perception of trading is that it's very much a game of psychological warfare against your own mind.
> 
> ...




It's nice to see that you have researched MBTI. I am of the "NT" variety so tend to be very technical oriented. 
In general "NF" are the opposite of NT's in approach, which could explain why you have a tendency to not complete activities you start.

Add to that you have a Perceiving function - so decision making is not always final as you are always focusing on ideas and possibilities.

This is not to say you cannot learn things and are not smart, just it will affect your execution of investing/trading when it gets to that point.

I bid you all the best in your journey...


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## Poppypop (28 July 2010)

I've been day trading my own money since October 2008 with no prior education or experience in share market trading. It has been my sole income in that time and I have 39% less than what i had before I started trading. I am also 1% richer than i was on the 30th of March 2009. 

I feel I'm getting better at it everyday. The biggest lessons I've learn't is don't put all your eggs in one basket. Sell one stock for a loss if u think another stock has a better chance of going up. Get familiar with the stocks before u invest in them. Read up to date broker ratings (not just one) and look for predictable patterns in the daily, weekly, monthly charts. Weigh up the pros and cons before u invest. If you can't handle losing money then definitely don't do it as its a fact u will lose money, and that will lead to emotional turmoil which can be really hard to handle. The highs are great, the lows are bad and it will take a mature mindset to handle properly. If you spread your portfolio out a price drop could mean more buying opportunity. Turn the negative into a positive. Set your alerts on your mobile phone when your stock reach your price targets, or price sensitive information comes out, so u always know whats going on. Invest in an iphone/laptop with internet access, so you don't have to spend your days infront of the home computer and u can go on holidays without having to worry about whats happening to your shares.


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## brty (29 July 2010)

Poppypop, 

Where does one start???



> It has been my sole income in that time






> I have 39% less than what i had before I started trading






> I am also 1% richer than i was on the 30th of March 2009.




What will it take for you to stop doing what you are doing immediately???



> I feel I'm getting better at it everyday.




Don't 'feel' anything in trading. Do the numbers. You are either getting better or you are not.



> Read up to date broker ratings (not just one)




Have you performed statistical evidence for yourself that in your type of trading these things will help one iota???



> Weigh up the pros and cons before u invest.




Care to define some of these pros or cons and how they can be statistically 'weighed up' ??



> If you spread your portfolio out a price drop could mean more buying opportunity




Average down because it seems like a good thing to do???  Any other reason??



> Set your alerts on your mobile phone when your stock reach your price targets, or price sensitive information comes out, so u always know whats going on. Invest in an iphone/laptop with internet access, so you don't have to spend your days infront of the home computer and u can go on holidays without having to worry about whats happening to your shares.




Umm, I'm nearly speechless at this type of advice. Poppypop, you need to evaluate what you are doing in your trading. You are clearly losing money and treating it as a game of chance that has no real rules, yet there are plenty here that have come up with ways of winning consistently with minimal risk to existing capital.

This post of yours from the 3 top holdings thread, says a lot.....



> 28.8% Telstra - This medium risk stock is low in price and predictable, they just payed a good dividend and are great to trade under $3.25.
> 
> 23.9% Myer - They're reasonably low in price, and just paid a reasonable dividend, they have a very good broker rating, and have been around for as long as I can remember.
> 
> 20.1% Caspian Oil & Gas - I made thousands on this high risk spec stock at the same time last year. At the current share price of around 1 cent it looks very appealing again. Just waiting on the one good announcement that will see it BOOM up again




All your posts tell me that you are just gambling with no real methodology or system, please, please stop and start doing some research into finding a consistent methodology that minimises risk and has a positive expectancy.

This is not a methodology.....



> I think it will go up in price cos RIO had a good run today, therefore it's FMG's turn tomorrow




brty


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## Tysonboss1 (29 July 2010)

Poppypop said:


> I've been day trading my own money since October 2008 with no prior education or experience in share market trading. It has been my sole income in that time and I have 39% less than what i had before I started trading. I am also 1% richer than i was on the 30th of March 2009.
> 
> I feel I'm getting better at it everyday. The biggest lessons I've learn't is don't put all your eggs in one basket. Sell one stock for a loss if u think another stock has a better chance of going up. Get familiar with the stocks before u invest in them. Read up to date broker ratings (not just one) and look for predictable patterns in the daily, weekly, monthly charts. Weigh up the pros and cons before u invest. If you can't handle losing money then definitely don't do it as its a fact u will lose money, and that will lead to emotional turmoil which can be really hard to handle. The highs are great, the lows are bad and it will take a mature mindset to handle properly. If you spread your portfolio out a price drop could mean more buying opportunity. Turn the negative into a positive. Set your alerts on your mobile phone when your stock reach your price targets, or price sensitive information comes out, so u always know whats going on. Invest in an iphone/laptop with internet access, so you don't have to spend your days infront of the home computer and u can go on holidays without having to worry about whats happening to your shares.




 Traders are funny 

All that time and effort, and worse results than if he had just bought some quality stocks and held them over that period.

But yeah trading is really the way to go,... I love stressful hobbies that are time intensive and produce below average long term returns


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## GumbyLearner (29 July 2010)

I wish I invested like I had for Mum.

Told her to buy with Super retirement over a year ago

PFL @ .60cents
WCB @ 1.90cents
SUL @ 2.70cents
COK @ .28 cents


Where are they at today? 

As robots would say

Glorious paradise. Bring it on! 

Enquire within
No financial planners needed!


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## CanOz (29 July 2010)

Poppypop said:


> I've been day trading my own money since October 2008 with no prior education or experience in share market trading. It has been my sole income in that time and I have 39% less than what i had before I started trading. I am also 1% richer than i was on the 30th of March 2009.
> 
> I feel I'm getting better at it everyday. The biggest lessons I've learn't is don't put all your eggs in one basket. Sell one stock for a loss if u think another stock has a better chance of going up. Get familiar with the stocks before u invest in them. Read up to date broker ratings (not just one) and look for predictable patterns in the daily, weekly, monthly charts. Weigh up the pros and cons before u invest. If you can't handle losing money then definitely don't do it as its a fact u will lose money, and that will lead to emotional turmoil which can be really hard to handle. The highs are great, the lows are bad and it will take a mature mindset to handle properly. If you spread your portfolio out a price drop could mean more buying opportunity. Turn the negative into a positive. Set your alerts on your mobile phone when your stock reach your price targets, or price sensitive information comes out, so u always know whats going on. Invest in an iphone/laptop with internet access, so you don't have to spend your days infront of the home computer and u can go on holidays without having to worry about whats happening to your shares.






This is tongue in cheek right?


CanOz


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## mazzatelli (29 July 2010)

Tysonboss1 said:


> Traders are funny
> 
> All that time and effort, and worse results than if he had just bought some quality stocks and held them over that period.
> 
> But yeah trading is really the way to go,... I love stressful hobbies that are time intensive and produce below average long term returns




Its alright that each person has a niche, so respect other peoples approaches. 

You seem to think "traders" only consist of individuals sitting at home with some capital, trading stocks/futures/fx directionally based on chart patterns.

All those option market makers, must be mugs - especially the ones treat the underlying as a random phenomenon.
Throw into the mix, those idiots that are involved in the sell and buy sides of exotics/structured products in the fx and energy markets, who take bets based on vol and curvature.
Why not include those bond trading chumps, who model yield curves etc

You earn more than all these guys, I gather?


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## Poppypop (29 July 2010)

brty said:


> Poppypop,
> 
> Where does one start???
> 
> ...





Yes, I know it's gambling but I'm just giving greasy_pancakes an idea of what it's been like for me trading. The method is in the madness. If I could get all my money back tomorrow I wouldn't stop because I believe there is still a lot of opportunities in the market with many good stocks still so low. ie:QBE VBA but with one bad announcement who knows what could happen that's why it's so important not to put too much money on one stock like I have done in the past and even still do sometimes today like I have with QBE


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## Poppypop (29 July 2010)

Oh and greasy_pancakes, I was 35% ahead at my peak in the first 3 months of trading. This success made me cocky and was the leading cause of my downfall cos I couldn't handle the loses. Had I kept my stocks and not panic sold when they went down in March I would have been a rich man today but it's always easier to say in hindsight.

I panic sold 90,0000 fmg shares @$1.70 to buy 50,000 IPL shares at $2.56 only to see it open at $1.70 the next day, so I panic sold them and bought 5,000 Macquarie Bank shares at $19.00 and panic sold them at $16.00. 

I lost 140 grand within one month.

I also had too much money on Caltex and Sigma Pharm. SIP this year and that was another huge loss....lol it's crazy I know but I wouldn't do anything else as I find buying and selling on the sharemarket NOT BORING. It makes me feel alive for some reason.


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## trainspotter (29 July 2010)

Go you good thing Poppypop ! Your trading technique sounds just like mine !! Do a bit of study, buy a parcel, sell them when they have made a realisable profit. Go again. No methodology required.  But I don't trade for a living nor do I rely on the income stream of the shares to keep me liquid.


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## professor_frink (29 July 2010)

Poppypop said:


> Oh and greasy_pancakes, I was 35% ahead at my peak in the first 3 months of trading. This success made me cocky and was the leading cause of my downfall cos I couldn't handle the loses. Had I kept my stocks and not panic sold when they went down in March I would have been a rich man today but it's always easier to say in hindsight.
> 
> I panic sold 90,0000 fmg shares @$1.70 to buy 50,000 IPL shares at $2.56 only to see it open at $1.70 the next day, so I panic sold them and bought 5,000 Macquarie Bank shares at $19.00 and panic sold them at $16.00.
> 
> ...




Don't think that you should be using the word "trading" to describe your activities.

When you need to place a bet to feel alive, best thing would be to go and contact these guys to try and get the help you need(if you aren't actually taking the p!ss that is)

Gamblers Anonymous


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## brty (29 July 2010)

Poppy,



> This success made me cocky and was the leading cause of my downfall




No it wasn't. It was the complete lack of a methodology, over-trading and ignorance of the marketplace.



> I also had too much money




Luckily the stockmarket will continue to relieve you of that problem.

brty


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## Poppypop (29 July 2010)

Anyone who's a trader is a gambler. If you think you aren't just because you have different "methodology" then you're kidding yourself.

I am currently 14% ahead of where i were at the beginning of this month so I must be getting better. Plus I don't include my living expenses, so I think I'm doing alright so far.


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## brty (29 July 2010)

Poppy,



> Anyone who's a trader is a gambler




Perhaps you should define 'gambler'.

My 'methodology' returned 75% winners at a win to loss ratio of 2.5:1 in the last financial year. If that is gambling it is with a really stacked deck. It performed nearly as well as my testing of it said it should, the weakness was in me the trader.

Your posts indicate that your 'methodology' resembles some type of guesswork that 'It is a good company so I'll buy some (a lot) and panic if it falls too far. Have you tested your methodology in all conditions before you started betting?? 



> I think I'm doing alright so far




Of course you do, and being such an expert with 2 years of experience feel you can give advice on how to trade.

brty


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## Poppypop (29 July 2010)

brty said:


> Poppy,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




No, I'm just telling of my experience trading.

You had 25% losses and 75% winners. Well done! You are a better gambler than me. I guess that comes with experience


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## basilio (29 July 2010)

> Your posts indicate that your 'methodology' resembles some type of guesswork that 'It is a good company so I'll buy some (a lot) and panic if it falls too far. Have you tested your methodology in all conditions before you started betting??







> Quote:
> 
> 
> > I think I'm doing alright so far
> ...




Perhaps Poppy is giving us a clear example of not over-thinking the process of punching in buys and sells....

Frankly if we did think about it all very clearly we might very well decide it was a mugs game and get out of here. But that would'nt suit the top punters who rely on the mugs to be the other side of their trades . Perhaps..


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## Poppypop (29 July 2010)

basilio said:


> Perhaps Poppy is giving us a clear example of not over-thinking the process of punching in buys and sells....
> 
> Frankly if we did think about it all very clearly we might very well decide it was a mugs game and get out of here. But that would'nt suit the top punters who rely on the mugs to be the other side of their trades . Perhaps..




So true, Basilio. If you over think your trades you will end up in an early grave. Yesterday I bought 25,000 shares of VBA for 31.5 cents but instead of selling them on the close for a healthy $210 profit (after expenses), I held on hoping they would go up again today. Lesson there is don't get too greedy. I could have rebought the same shares today for 31.5 cents.


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## nunthewiser (29 July 2010)

Poppypop said:


> So true, Basilio. If you over think your trades you will end up in an early grave. Yesterday I bought 25,000 shares of VBA for 31.5 cents but instead of selling them on the close for a healthy $210 profit (after expenses), I held on hoping they would go up again today. Lesson there is don't get too greedy. I could have rebought the same shares today for 31.5 cents.




lesson 1.............work out what sort of trade you are entering before entering trade..........intraday swings, skims are a different ball game to 3 day swings ,longer swings/position trades are different to 3 day swings,long term investing is different from swing trading .......different flexibiltys, different sizes, different risks, different targets,different mentalitys.

until one knows where there going they can only wander blindly in the meantime.


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## Poppypop (29 July 2010)

nunthewiser said:


> lesson 1.............work out what sort of trade you are entering before entering trade..........intraday swings, skims are a different ball game to 3 day swings ,longer swings/position trades are different to 3 day swings,long term investing is different from swing trading .......different flexibiltys, different sizes, different risks, different targets,different mentalitys.
> 
> until one knows where there going they can only wander blindly in the meantime.





Intraday swings, skims and ball games sounds like fun. Anyone else trade like this? Can you please direct me to an example of this? I wouldn't mind researching it. Thank you


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## So_Cynical (29 July 2010)

Poppypop said:


> I panic sold 90,0000 fmg shares @$1.70 to buy 50,000 IPL shares at $2.56 only to see it open at $1.70 the next day, so I panic sold them and bought 5,000 Macquarie Bank shares at $19.00 and panic sold them at $16.00.
> 
> I lost 140 grand within one month.




Stunning 



Poppypop said:


> Anyone who's a trader is a gambler. If you think you aren't just because you have different "methodology" then you're kidding yourself.




There's reckless, dumb luck, mug gambling and then there's smart, calculated, odds in your favour, conservative gambling.  Successful stock market punters need a realistic plan.


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## Gunslinger (29 July 2010)

vincent191 said:


> ... If it was this easy we will all be billionaires.




What?
You mean you're not?


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## dead trader (30 July 2010)

Some of you have said that my goal of $5000 per week is too high. I've done some thinking, and you are correct, it is way too high. Unless I have goals of owning a multimillion dollar property portfolio (which is a lot to manage anyway), there should be no need for me to be on an income of $5000 per week.

I'm someone who is more of a saver than a spender. For someone who is Gen Y, aged 21, I've noticed by observation and experience that I'm not a typical Gen Y person. People who are older than me have commented that I'm very mature for my age.

1. I'm not into fashion in the same way like other females my age. 
2. The most expensive thing I ever bought was a 21CA product (which I can tell you is absolute rubbish for its price tag). And I got the student discount even. Half of $3995.
3. I'm not a fan of watching tv, in fact I only 'watch' the tv when my family do.
4. I'm not into computer games either.
5. When I was at high school, maths and science were my best subjects. Especially maths. That was before I was diagnosed with my mental illness.
6. I love reading and learning about life and myself, as evidenced by the kind of books I read.
7. I don't have ANY debt at all. I don't own a credit card.

What I want to gain from the markets is the chance to earn a reasonable income without doing the 9-5 so I have the means to take an overseas trip  costing about $4000 once a year. And I'd have more time for volunteer work, church responsibilities, developing my guitar skills.

If my weekly income goal is changed to $750 net to $1500 net would it be more achievable for someone like myself?


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## Tysonboss1 (31 July 2010)

greasy_pancakes said:


> If my weekly income goal is changed to $750 net to $1500 net would it be more achievable for someone like myself?




Easily achieveable with a capital base of between $ 400,000 and $800,000 with little very little trading.


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## Tysonboss1 (31 July 2010)

Poppypop said:


> I panic sold 90,0000 fmg shares @$1.70 to buy 50,000 IPL shares at $2.56 only to see it open at $1.70 the next day, so I panic sold them and bought 5,000 Macquarie Bank shares at $19.00 and panic sold them at $16.00.
> 
> I lost 140 grand within one month.




This is a perfect example of how you can turn the share markets liquidity (which should be a positive) into a negative.


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## dead trader (7 February 2015)

Update: Read through all four pages of this thread just to relive some memories - wow I was so naive back then!

I am more stable in terms of my bipolar. Since 5 yrs ago.

Been working full time as a draftsperson for about 4 months now.

Still living at home where saving capital is so much easier. Saving about 50% net income a week  my mum is unable to work so she gets about 25% of my net pay too!

Also learning iron condors at the moment and may study futures spreads (calendar) later on.

Any guys have any ideas or suggestions to shorten the learning curve?


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