# 2015 NSW Election



## SirRumpole (10 March 2015)

Looks like power prices is the big issue in this election, with the Baird government set to privatise the poles and wires.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-...pass-privatisation-electricity-assets/6291254

Living out of Sydney as I do it's unlikely I will use any of the much vaunted infrastructure supposedly funded by asset "recycling", and power prices are certainly a drain on my budget, so I will be showing my opposition to the proposed sell off by not voting LNP at this election.

Hopefully after the Qld result the pollies will get the idea that we don't want essential infrastructure in the hands of commercial interests.


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## Knobby22 (10 March 2015)

Do you trust NSW Labor yet? Seems too soon to me.


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## SirRumpole (10 March 2015)

Knobby22 said:


> Do you trust NSW Labor yet? Seems too soon to me.




It's a matter of degree. The only thing I trust any politician to do is to be a politician, but if they go out on a "don't sell assets" policy and then go back on it then they will reap electoral displeasure at the next election.

Iemma and Costa tried to sell the electricity grid, and where are they now ? I hope Foley learns that lesson.


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## noco (10 March 2015)

Palaszczuk in Queensland said she would not sell any assets under a government she led and Foley is preying on the same vintage mantra....Palszczuk lied and so would Foley.....Labor will do anything to gain power...Lies, Lies and more lies.
Plalaszczuk is about to sell assets in Queensland.


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## moXJO (10 March 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> by not voting LNP at this election.
> 
> .




Wait??? 
Was that meant to be a shock announcement


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## SirRumpole (10 March 2015)

moXJO said:


> Wait???
> Was that meant to be a shock announcement




Well not really, but in other respects I don't have much against the current NSW government who seem fairly reasonable. Power prices are a killer for me at the moment and I think it's a big issue for a lot of people.


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## Bill M (15 March 2015)

i am a swinging voter and I won't be voting for either of the major parties. I do not agree with the LNP policy of selling the electricity grid so they are out. As for Labor, they did nothing for this state infrastructure and transport wise for the many years they were in. That leaves me with a minor party choice and I am keeping that vote secret.

Best thing about this election is that it is the first one where you can vote online, that is if you fall into the right category. Online voting should become a choice for everybody, the sooner the better.

http://www.votensw.info/early_voting/ivote?gclid=CI_vyZ3UqMQCFdcTvQod7x4Adw


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## Logique (15 March 2015)

Premier Mike Baird has called NSW Labor dishonest on poles and wires. It's a 99 year lease on 49% of the network, which releases immediate millions for infrastructure spending.

Paul Keating backs electricity privatization.  NSW Labor sold off the TAB.  We're seeing a fear campaign by NSW Labor to appease the Unions and try to win an election. 

If you have solar panels, the only way left for the utilities to get at you is to keep raising the fixed supply charge. If NSW voters want the Unions to be in charge of the movement of supply charges, with their 26% employer Super contribs and Shower Allowances, then good luck to them. 

Mike Baird says he will reduce the utility fixed supply charges, and I'd believe him before the Unions or NSW Labor.


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## noco (15 March 2015)

Logique said:


> Premier Mike Baird has called NSW Labor dishonest on poles and wires. It's a 99 year lease on 49% of the network, which releases immediate millions for infrastructure spending.
> 
> Paul Keating backs electricity privatization.  NSW Labor sold off the TAB.  We're seeing a fear campaign by NSW Labor to appease the Unions and try to win an election.
> 
> ...




And here is more lies from Labor as explained by Piers Akerman.

Labor could not lay straight bed if you paid them.....They have to stretched the truth just to gain votes.



http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...|heading|homepage|homepage&itmt=1426383243773
*
LUKE Foley, the Labor Party and its trade union supporters are running one of the most dishonest election campaigns in the 191-year history of the NSW legislature.

The lies are blatant… They have been repeated in advertisements and in speeches and interviews and although they can be easily disproved, they are in danger of being swallowed by a generation of lazy voters…

The biggest lie of all is that electricity prices will rise in NSW if the government leases the electricity network. Take it from Rod Sims, the independent chairman of the consumer body the ACCC, that prices will be lower under private ownership…

[Foley’s] policy is repudiated by senior Labor figures who endorse the leasing of the poles and wires…

David Borger, a former Lord Mayor of Parramatta, former NSW Minister for Roads and Housing in both the Rees and Keneally Labor governments just last month said: “Using the proceeds from the lease of the metropolitan ‘poles and wires’ is the preferred method for funding essential transport, health and other infrastructure projects.”

As did former Labor Premier Morris Iemma: “The alternatives to (asset recycling) are taxation...”

And he was only echoing former NSW Labor Treasurer Michael Costa, who last June said: “Mike Baird’s proposal for a partial privatisation is moderate, sensible and the right thing to do."…

(F)ormer premier Bob Carr was on the money in August, 2010: “This would have been a terrific deal for NSW taxpayers.*”


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## McLovin (15 March 2015)

Bill M said:


> Best thing about this election is that it is the first one where you can vote online, that is if you fall into the right category. Online voting should become a choice for everybody, the sooner the better.
> 
> http://www.votensw.info/early_voting/ivote?gclid=CI_vyZ3UqMQCFdcTvQod7x4Adw




I'm voting online because I won't be in the country on polling day. There's nothing really stopping anyone from signing up for iVote, it's not as though you have to prove that you won't be in NSW on election day.


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## Smurf1976 (15 March 2015)

So far as power prices are concerned, an observation from history:

1990 - we had the third cheapest electricity in the OECD, supplied by vertically integrated, state owned, monopoly utilities.

1990's and 00's - the industry was deregulated, partly privatised and opened up to competition so as to "improve efficiency".

2015 - Australia has amongst the most expensive electricity in the world, with SA (privatised) at the top of the list.

Conclusion - deregulation, competition and part privatisation leads to higher prices, not lower, as evidenced by the actual outcomes achieved thus far.

Only a fool would believe that more of the same will achieve a different outcome to what we've already seen. Private ownership could be done sensibly, but not under the current industry structure which clearly isn't working well for consumers or the national economy. For all the fuss made about carbon taxes, the reforms to the industry have cost ordinary small consumers far more than the carbon tax and yet hardly a word is said.


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## Logique (15 March 2015)

You would never be deliberately misleading Smurf, so tell the whole story.

- solar RECS scheme (expensive energy, especially if you don't have it) costs passed on
- true supply cost previously partially hidden within state bureaucracies
- past under-investment in renewal/maintenance of the supply network
- hydro electric expansion shut down
- carbon tax
- massive population growth in the cities, necessitating unprecedented poles and wires roll out, upgrading and maintenance

Poles and wires are the most expensive part of electricity supply. The choice for NSW voters later this month, is who can best manage this, while keeping a lid on price increases.


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## Smurf1976 (15 March 2015)

Logique said:


> - solar RECS scheme (expensive energy, especially if you don't have it) costs passed on




There's a cost there certainly, but it's not particularly large in most states. That said, I do agree that the high rate FIT's were always going to lead to trouble once adoption moved beyond the small scale demonstration stage and we ended up with solar salespeople at shopping centres. In NSW specifically, paying the 60c gross FIT was just silly and was always going to end badly.



> - true supply cost previously partially hidden within state bureaucracies




Might have happened somewhere, but in most cases the reverse was true with the power industry either carrying things out on behalf of government, or outright handing over cash. That certainly happened at least in Vic, Tas and SA. Not sure about NSW.



> - past under-investment in renewal/maintenance of the supply network




As anyone who has ever worked in a "blue collar" industry where the "economic rationalist" types have taken control will tell you, the first thing they always do is slash maintenance. That's a prelude to either running the whole operation into the ground or selling it off. Same pattern in everything from smelters to utilities - they run it down first, then either close or sell it. Makes the management look good in the short term, at which point such people always move on, but leaves a huge mess for whoever comes next. That applies regardless of whether it's publicly owned or private - just look at the disaster Pacific National left with the railways in Tas as one such example (why the state didn't force the company to pay up I'll never know - dodgy dealings by Labor there I suspect).



> - hydro electric expansion shut down




No argument there, although that doesn't explain the cost increases in SA in particular which didn't have any hydro generation to start with.



> - carbon tax




Wholesale electricity is still cheap, in real terms its' cheaper than it has ever been. It's transmission, distribution and retail soaking up the money not generation. The carbon tax only significantly impacted generation and in any event was limited to 2 years.



> - massive population growth in the cities, necessitating unprecedented poles and wires roll out, upgrading and maintenance




I'll have to check the stats, but I'm pretty sure that Adelaide in particular, the place hardest hit by soaring prices, has had a relatively slow rate of population growth for quite some time. That's my understanding at least.



> Poles and wires are the most expensive part of electricity supply. The choice for NSW voters later this month, is who can best manage this, while keeping a lid on price increases.




Transmission and distribution costs have gone through the roof, that's my point. Regardless of whether it's privately owned / leased (eg Vic and SA) or publicly owned (eg NSW or Tas) the cost has increased disproportionately. That comes down to the industry structure having fundamental flaws. Whether it's privately owned or public doesn't change that in itself.

If the NSW government, or the opposition, is worried about the cost of electricity in NSW then they need to realise that the problem isn't about ownership of a single part of the industry. The problem is with how it all operates and is regulated, who owns it being a far lesser issue. Simply changing who owns what does not lead to lower prices, unless there is some efficiency gain and/or lower rate of return.

Another question the voters of NSW might sensibly ask themselves is what legal protections exist to ensure that the money raised isn't spent on things of no lasting value? You sell / lease something today, what ensures that this money actually goes into new assets and isn't simply frittered away as seems to be occurring in SA, Vic and federally?


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## Smurf1976 (15 March 2015)

Noting that this is the NSW Election thread, not an energy industry thread, I'll post some real prices and leave it at that for everyone to decide.

The following prices for NSW, Vic and SA are as charged by Momentum Energy (the retail arm of Hydro Tas) for residential supply. Rates for Tas are as charged by Aurora Energy (whose bulk supply is from HT).

Assumptions are that (1) the property has standard metering not time of use (2) I have taken the average peak rate price in situations where the rate varies according to quantity used or purpose. All prices are in cents to one decimal place.

Daily supply charge = NSW = 79.6, SA = 84.2, Tas = 126.2, Vic = 138.5

Peak consumption = Tas 19.8, Vic 23.9, NSW 26.2, SA 31.1

Off-peak (night only) = Vic 9.9, NSW 10.1, Tas 11.3, SA 16.7

Off-peak 2 (extended hours) = Tas 12.0, NSW 13.7, not available Vic and SA.

This is based on rates charged by Momentum / Aurora, so differences between states should not be attributable to retail but rather, to other aspects of the supply chain. As stated, I've taken the mid point where there is a price range.

So far as the NSW election is concerned, if they're going to claim that electricity prices will fall (or rise) in response to any particular action then if ought to be pretty easy for the proponents of such an idea to put some specific figures on it.


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## noco (16 March 2015)

noco said:


> And here is more lies from Labor as explained by Piers Akerman.
> 
> Labor could not lay straight bed if you paid them.....They have to stretched the truth just to gain votes.
> 
> ...




The latest poll in NSW is not good news for the Green/Labor left wing socialists.....It is pleasing to note common sense has prevailed in NSW and voters have finally woken up to Labor's lies.

Labor can fool some of the people half the time, half the people some of the  but Labor cannot fool people all the time....Labor has come unstuck in this occasion irrespective of the fact that their comrade unions have spent millions of union members money on lies for Labor to gain office.....

What a shame the voters in Queensland have woken up too late. 

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...263969877?sv=961e083a8ddc32578fdc990135ce0ee2


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## McLovin (16 March 2015)

McLovin said:


> I'm voting online because I won't be in the country on polling day. There's nothing really stopping anyone from signing up for iVote, it's not as though you have to prove that you won't be in NSW on election day.




I just used the system. It was easy as pie. Took me literally 2 minutes. I look forward to when all voting is done that way. 

I vote in the division of Sydney which is an interesting seat because of how it has traditionally straddled the city. It pulls in parts of the Eastern Suburbs (Woollahra, Paddington, Edgecliff, Elizabeth Bay, Potts Point) but also on the other side of the CBD more traditionally Labor/Green areas like Glebe, Ultimo, Redfern, Surry Hills. Because of redistribution it's gone from being a very safe seat for the sitting independant (who was backed by Clover Moore) to being on a margin of 0.3%.


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## Bill M (16 March 2015)

McLovin said:


> I just used the system. It was easy as pie. Took me literally 2 minutes. I look forward to when all voting is done that way.
> 
> I vote in the division of Sydney which is an interesting seat because of how it has traditionally straddled the city. It pulls in parts of the Eastern Suburbs (Woollahra, Paddington, Edgecliff, Elizabeth Bay, Potts Point) but also on the other side of the CBD more traditionally Labor/Green areas like Glebe, Ultimo, Redfern, Surry Hills. Because of redistribution it's gone from being a very safe seat for the sitting independant (who was backed by Clover Moore) to being on a margin of 0.3%.




Did you register today?

The reason I ask is that I registered yesterday and they said our 8 digit number would be sms'd to us on the 16th (today). I didn't get my 8 digit number. What did you do? I still can't vote.

Then I went on the website and it said it was shutting down for maintenance between 4.30 and 7.30 pm due to overwhelming demand.


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## Bill M (16 March 2015)

Further to the above, I just got my 8 digit code by SMS (5.50 PM). I'll wait until the website is back online and then vote.


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## Craton (16 March 2015)

Bill M said:


> Further to the above, I just got my 8 digit code by SMS (5.50 PM). I'll wait until the website is back online and then vote.




Cheers for the heads up on iVote Bill.

The site does say that the voting side of things is still operational, just the registration portal had a little meltdown due to demand (not surprising really), link: http://www.ivote.nsw.gov.au/


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## Bill M (16 March 2015)

McLovin said:


> I just used the system. It was easy as pie. Took me literally 2 minutes. I look forward to when all voting is done that way.




Done and dusted here too, no queuing, no parking problems and quick and easy.



Craton said:


> Cheers for the heads up on iVote Bill.
> 
> The site does say that the voting side of things is still operational, just the registration portal had a little meltdown due to demand (not surprising really), link: http://www.ivote.nsw.gov.au/




Thanks Craton, I picked up on that too, all done now. I will be interstate on the day so this has made life much easier.


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## McLovin (16 March 2015)

Bill M said:


> Did you register today?




Nah, registered a few weeks ago. Looks like it all worked out for you though.


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## robusta (16 March 2015)

Bill M said:


> i am a swinging voter and I won't be voting for either of the major parties. I do not agree with the LNP policy of selling the electricity grid so they are out. As for Labor, they did nothing for this state infrastructure and transport wise for the many years they were in. That leaves me with a minor party choice and I am keeping that vote secret.
> 
> Best thing about this election is that it is the first one where you can vote online, that is if you fall into the right category. Online voting should become a choice for everybody, the sooner the better.
> 
> http://www.votensw.info/early_voting/ivote?gclid=CI_vyZ3UqMQCFdcTvQod7x4Adw




Wow what a great idea. I've done a few election day fetes in my time and am often surprised by the freaks that seem to come out from under rocks or down from the hills on election day. It's worse than going to the RTA.

I'm a bit the same as you Bill a swinging voter and I don't really want to encourage either of the major parties in this one. Minor parties and independents for me.


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## banco (18 March 2015)

Baird will have something to confess this Sunday when he goes to Church. Just another scumbag:

Premier Mike Baird has admitted his office called an investment bank before it altered a report critical of the impact of electricity privatisation on the state budget, forcing him on the defensive over his main policy 10 days from the election.

UBS - one of two banks handling the electricity privatisation plan for the government - said in the initial report it would damage the budget in the long term due to the loss of billions of dollars in dividends and other payments.

But the bank - which stands to benefit by earning millions of dollars in fees if the transaction proceeds after the March 28 election - reissued the report with an addendum removing a statement the transaction was "bad for the budget".

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/nsw-state...lectricity-privatisation-20150318-1m1ni9.html


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## Smurf1976 (18 March 2015)

And that my friend is how privatisation works. 

Hire some consultant and get them to write a report. Tell them the conclusions first, and make sure they understand that it's in their interests to come up with a report which recommends the government's preferred outcome.

Rotten to the core.


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## SirRumpole (19 March 2015)

Thanks to Bill M for the info on iVote.

My vote is all done and dusted and I don't have to run the gauntlet of phampleteers and cake stalls on voting day.


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## Tisme (19 March 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> Thanks to Bill M for the info on iVote.
> 
> My vote is all done and dusted and I don't have to run the gauntlet of phampleteers and cake stalls on voting day.




Did you vote Palmer or the nude party candidate?


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## Knobby22 (19 March 2015)

Tisme said:


> Did you vote Palmer or the nude party candidate?




Motoring party guy seems OK.


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## SirRumpole (19 March 2015)

Tisme said:


> Did you vote Palmer or the nude party candidate?




Damn, I knew there was someone I missed !


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## moXJO (19 March 2015)

'No land tax party' is popping up everywhere.


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## noco (20 March 2015)

When will voters wake up to the blatant lies by the NSW Labor Party and the unions....Even old Labor leaders are confirming the lies by by Foley and the unions....I guess the unions don't want privatization for fear they will lose control. 

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...270279856?sv=ce1dd8ea77f2dba84afe4bbfe6d9cbd3

And listen to what Martin Ferguson thinks of the NSW Labor party.....it is not a good look.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...sun/comments/ferguson_fights_nsw_labors_lies/


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## Logique (21 March 2015)

What do these ALP luminaries have in common?

Paul Keating, Morris Iemma, Michael Costa, Bob Carr, Martin Ferguson

Answer: they all think the proposed electricity poles and wires lease is a good idea, a good deal for NSW.


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## SirRumpole (21 March 2015)

Logique said:


> What do these ALP luminaries have in common?
> 
> Paul Keating, Morris Iemma, Michael Costa, Bob Carr, Martin Ferguson
> 
> Answer: they all think the proposed electricity poles and wires lease is a good idea, a good deal for NSW.




A lease may be a good idea, but 99 years is as good as a sale.

10 years may be more appropriate, and if the company doesn't give good value the lease goes to someone else.


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## noco (21 March 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> A lease may be a good idea, but 99 years is as good as a sale.
> 
> 10 years may be more appropriate, and if the company doesn't give good value the lease goes to someone else.




They are only leasing 49%.


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## Smurf1976 (21 March 2015)

noco said:


> They are only leasing 49%.




Just like they only sold part of Telstra an the rest will always remain in public hands, right?

49% will become 100% in due course. That's the path it always takes. As such, the debate is about the ultimate sale or lease (and if a lease it effectively is a sale if the lease term is long enough) of 100% of the asset. It's very, very unlikely that they'll sell / lease 49% and leave it at that forever.


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## drsmith (22 March 2015)

Labor's now familiar colour,





http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...rue-colour-green/story-fnrskx7r-1227267143047


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## banco (22 March 2015)

drsmith said:


> Labor's now familiar colour,
> 
> View attachment 62061
> 
> ...




How terrible that they want to protect the environment.


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## noco (22 March 2015)

drsmith said:


> Labor's now familiar colour,
> 
> View attachment 62061
> 
> ...




Yes Doc, Green outside and Red inside.


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## noco (22 March 2015)

At last voters are waking up to the Green/labor left wing democratic socialist party lies.... Labor has no where to hide now....It is a shame, a great party that it was 70 years ago  has gone down hill in resorting to such shameful tactics.




http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...ruising_to_comfortable_54_to_46_per_cent_win/


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## IFocus (22 March 2015)

banco said:


> How terrible that they want to protect the environment.




I always smile when I see angry stances against environmental issues, we have already cleared 2/3s of Australia's tree cover and have one of the highest extinction rates of native species world wide clearly thats not enough for some.


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## drsmith (22 March 2015)

Coalition 47%, Labor 32%, Greens 13%, other's 9%.

That's dire for Labor without the Greens.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/nsw-state...roops-at-campaign-launch-20150322-1m4vmt.html


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## noco (22 March 2015)

IFocus said:


> I always smile when I see angry stances against environmental issues, we have already cleared 2/3s of Australia's tree cover and have one of the highest extinction rates of native species world wide clearly thats not enough for some.




What rubbish....where did you pluck that 2/3s from?


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## drsmith (22 March 2015)

noco said:


> What rubbish....where did you pluck that 2/3s from?



IF's not happy with his bird seed.

He prefers imported.


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## sptrawler (23 March 2015)

I think business in NSW is a bit concerned, Labor seem to be saying they will overturn past government commitments.

This might sound great and be a vote catcher, but along with the Vic governments tearing up contracts, it is all starting to sound a bit third world. 

Anyone with half a brain, will be thinking you can't run a first world country, with third world policy making.

We really are in for a rocky ride. IMO

We are being coralled into a chardonay socialist ideological agenda, while we have a beer economy. lol, lol

We are nearly $1 to $1 with NZ, now that should be ringing alarm bells, for even the dumbest Laborite.

It's o.k going up and down against the U.S, U.K, E.U etc, gaining and losing against massive economies is more a reflection of their plight.

Losing ground against smaller economies, would seem to me to be somewhat scarier.  

Let's see how that works out for us.


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## banco (23 March 2015)

sptrawler said:


> I think business in NSW is a bit concerned, Labor seem to be saying they will overturn past government commitments.
> 
> This might sound great and be a vote catcher, but along with the Vic governments tearing up contracts, it is all starting to sound a bit third world.
> 
> ...




I'd be interested to hear whar correlation you think there is between the size of a country and their currency.


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## Tisme (23 March 2015)

IFocus said:


> I always smile when I see angry stances against environmental issues, we have already cleared 2/3s of Australia's tree cover and have one of the highest extinction rates of native species world wide clearly thats not enough for some.





To be fair the rest of the world killed off much of their fauna a long time ago, so the rate of extinction would be lower than Oz by default?


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## noco (23 March 2015)

The Labor Party blamed Abbott for the loss of the Victorian and Queensland elections, now lets see who blames Labor for their loss in the NSW election next Saturday...Will it be Bill Shorten? 

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/invisibill_shorten/


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## Knobby22 (23 March 2015)

They haven't lost the election yet. 
I think it will be close. You have no idea how little respect Abbott has with most people, noco. 
It definitely will affect the voting. 

If Labor wins despite the obvious good governance of the Libs in NSW then I will be blaming Abbott. He should have resigned.


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## noco (23 March 2015)

Knobby22 said:


> They haven't lost the election yet.
> I think it will be close. You have no idea how little respect Abbott has with most people, noco.
> It definitely will affect the voting.
> 
> If Labor wins despite the obvious good governance of the Libs in NSW then I will be blaming Abbott. He should have resigned.




And if Labor loses?


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## Macquack (23 March 2015)

noco said:


> And if Labor loses?




We will blame those right wing scumbag Labor party infiltrators, so called "the Terrigals" - cohorts in crime - Eddie Obeid, Ian MacDonald, Jo Tripodi, Eric Rozendahl etc.

The smell still lingers from ICAC well above any fake perfume sprayed around by that pussy Baird.


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## noco (23 March 2015)

Macquack said:


> We will blame those right wing scumbag Labor party infiltrators, so called "the Terrigals" - cohorts in crime - Eddie Obeid, Ian MacDonald, Jo Tripodi, Eric Rozendahl etc.
> 
> The smell still lingers from ICAC well above any fake perfume sprayed around by that pussy Baird.




And I guess you would say Shorten has clean hands...After backing the construction of the East West link in Melbourne with Julia Gillard and then does a back flip to back the union dominated Daniel Andrews....Shorten has no credibility.


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## Tisme (24 March 2015)

noco said:


> And I guess you would say Shorten has clean hands...After backing the construction of the East West link in Melbourne with Julia Gillard and then does a back flip to back the union dominated Daniel Andrews....Shorten has no credibility.




I'm not all over this issue, so what is the real reason this project has been stalled? It was obviously an election winner for Labor?


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## Macquack (24 March 2015)

noco said:


> And I guess you would say Shorten has clean hands...After backing the construction of the East West link in Melbourne with Julia Gillard and then does a back flip to back the union dominated Daniel Andrews....Shorten has no credibility.




What are you on about Noco?

Your reply has absolutely nothing to do with my post nor anything to do with the *2015 NSW Election.*

I will give you a tip Noco, you can make a post on a forum - "Reply to Thread" by just posting rather than trying to - "Reply with Quote" to a post that has nothing to do with the point your are trying to make.


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## noco (24 March 2015)

Macquack said:


> What are you on about Noco?
> 
> Your reply has absolutely nothing to do with my post nor anything to do with the *2015 NSW Election.*
> 
> I will give you a tip Noco, you can make a post on a forum - "Reply to Thread" by just posting rather than trying to - "Reply with Quote" to a post that has nothing to do with the point your are trying to make.




Wow....Are you the new moderator?.....You seem a little on edge tonight.....Maybe it was the latest polls which has shortened the gap for the Liberals lifted Abbotts popularity.

Well, you and your comrades blamed Abbott for the loss in Victoria and Queensland, so what has Abbott got to do with the states.


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## sptrawler (24 March 2015)

Tisme said:


> I'm not all over this issue, so what is the real reason this project has been stalled? It was obviously an election winner for Labor?




I'm with you on this, the project from a W.A perspective sounded as though it would solve a lot of cross city congestion.

I know from personal experience, using the freeway from Tullarmarine airport to Phillip island, was absolutely brilliant.

Going back to the airport via  Dandenong and the north western area was a nightmare, never again.


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## Tink (25 March 2015)

Since this is a NSW election thread, I am hoping that the Libs get through for their sake.

I have given my views on the East West Link in Melbourne, and Daniel Andrews ---  the $1.2 billion we were to get for infrastructure and roads, will go to paying compensation and legal bills, it will go a lot higher than that -- so nothing will be done in Melbourne for the next 4 years.

I don't think this legal battle is over as yet, just my opinion.

So while investors watch what Daniel Andrews does, less people will invest in Melbourne.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28524&page=12

btw, it is not just in Melbourne, we had people picketing in Ballarat about things not to be done in that area.

I really think people thought that Daniel Andrews would have gone through with the freeway, a contract is a contract.

Our upper house has 14 Labor, 16 Coalition, 5 Greens, and the minor parties.


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## Tisme (25 March 2015)

noco said:


> And I guess you would say Shorten has clean hands...After backing the construction of the East West link in Melbourne with Julia Gillard and then does a back flip to back the union dominated Daniel Andrews....Shorten has no credibility.






sptrawler said:


> I'm with you on this, the project from a W.A perspective sounded as though it would solve a lot of cross city congestion.
> 
> I know from personal experience, using the freeway from Tullarmarine airport to Phillip island, was absolutely brilliant.
> 
> Going back to the airport via  Dandenong and the north western area was a nightmare, never again.




Might be a bit like the congestion busting tunnels and links here in Brisbane: bankrupt consortiums, impoverished mum and dad investors, aversion to tolls and continued angering congestion.


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## Knobby22 (25 March 2015)

Tisme said:


> Might be a bit like the congestion busting tunnels and links here in Brisbane: bankrupt consortiums, impoverished mum and dad investors, aversion to tolls and continued angering congestion.




They stopped the road and instead they will be an underground railway........one day in the future.
We can't seem to build anything anymore.


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## noco (25 March 2015)

Martin Ferguson expresses his disgust at the blatant lies being circulated by the Foley, the Labor Party and the ETU regarding the lease of poles and wires in NSW.

I repeatedly  had to view an add on Sky News this morning where the ETU is trying include the Abbott name in allowing the Chinese to buy the NSW poles and wires.

The NSW Labor Party are disgusting to say the least.....Nothing but a scare campaign to win votes. 

http://polesandliars.com/?gclid=CK2U8OeWwsQCFQMT7AodxVIAAQ


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## dutchie (26 March 2015)

The ABC's Fact Check finally does a test on Foley's claims in regard to electricity.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-...isation-increase-electricity-prices3f/6329316

"The verdict

While the AER report Mr Foley's office cited found bills in South Australia were the highest among the eastern states, a report by the Australian Energy Market Commission and another commissioned by the Baird Government found NSW households paid the highest bills.

The AER report contains no consistent correlation between higher bills and privatisation.

It found South Australia, with privatised electricity, does have the highest bills. But Victoria, fully privatised, has slightly lower bills than NSW, Queensland and Tasmania, all of which have their electricity networks in government hands.

Comparing bills is problematic because of large variations in consumption, household composition and how people use electricity in different states.

The ABS index of electricity prices across Australia, showing movement of electricity prices over time, also doesn't demonstrate a link between privatisation and price rises.

Whether comparing electricity bills, prices or the relative price index of electricity in each state, there is no consistent link between privatisation and what consumers pay for their electricity.

Experts say the biggest influences on what people pay for electricity are costs of transmission and distribution. They say these costs have risen in recent years irrespective of whether the owners of the transmission and distribution networks are privatised.

*Mr Foley's claim is spin.*"

(my bolds)

Labor running a campaign on lies - par for the course.


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## Logique (26 March 2015)

Can't ever take voters for granted, but the Coalition are a very good chance on Saturday.


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## orr (26 March 2015)

Macquack said:


> ........... any fake perfume sprayed around by that pussy Baird.........




I like nothing more than to see the merkin secreted into political debate...
Strange to note also that the odds from the bookmakers on the election result aren't a regular feature down the pages of this thread, as has been a preoccupation for some.

I'm putting a lazy 10 on a very hung parliament. If I'm reading the white hot but quite discontent for what it is. Add to that the Abbott factor.


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## drsmith (26 March 2015)

orr said:


> I'm putting a lazy 10 on a very hung parliament.



Labor winning offers longer odds.


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## Smurf1976 (26 March 2015)

dutchie said:


> Comparing bills is problematic because of large variations in consumption, household composition and how people use electricity in different states.




There's a huge difference in usage patterns between states which makes comparison difficult. Huge use of gas in Victoria, the highest market penetration in the world, versus the near total dominance of electricity in Tasmania are just two examples of the differences. 

So it's hard to compare between states and that is true even if just comparing the actual prices due to the different tariff and metering structures. 

What can be said with certainty however is that once transmission and distribution were separated from generation (ie the split up of the former utilities), costs went through the roof and this has occurred right across the country. 

Any rational argument would thus be based not on ownership per se, but on industry structure and regulation. 

The real point here is that the power industry is just one example of a broader problem. A great deal of the political debate in Australia, at all levels, is aimed at addressing the wrong problem. Whether by accident or by intent, politicians manage to confuse the public, and possibly themselves or their opponents, as to what the underlying problem is in any given situation. Once that occurs, any solution will be ineffective for the simple reason that it addresses the wrong problem. 

It's akin to applying a plaster cast when the patient's real problem is a viral infection which just happens to have given them a sore leg. Unfortunately, our politicians and media take a sore leg to automatically mean a broken leg, without an apparent ability to get to the real problem.


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## Macquack (26 March 2015)

Hi Smurf, what is your opinion on privatisation of electricity retailing?

In NSW, we have mobile phone companies like "Dodo" selling electricity! Surely they are doing nothing more than reading meters and sending bills. I can read the meter myself, inform the "real" electricity supplier and CUT OUT THE MIDDLE MAN.


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## Craton (26 March 2015)

You know, for those of us in the Far West of NSW it isn't just about poles and wires. Water is the main game out here but there ya go, situation normal.

From my point of view, those east of the divide will have more say and sway than those west. Not a dig, just the cynic in me talking out loud.

Whichever party wins, it will be more of the same hamstrung politics that's become the norm of late. The major parties are both on the nose with policies that fail to ignite and rally the electorate, although they do know how to put us offside. 

The Greens. What started out as such a positive alternative have lost their way. Fancy siding with Labor *sigh*
The minor parties if elected will further cripple any real economic and social reform by way of the hung parliament and pursuit of their own agendas.

Ho hum.... status quo.

FWIW, I'll be voting for the devil I know...or maybe not. Will see later when iVote online.


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## Smurf1976 (27 March 2015)

Macquack said:


> Hi Smurf, what is your opinion on privatisation of electricity retailing?




I'll put it this way. Momentum (Hydro Tas) has recently gone into the gas retailing business in Victoria in direct competition with the likes of AGL and Origin.

In theory, the big players ought to have a huge advantage given that they've been doing gas for rather a long time and are heavily invested in it. They have scale in their favour with a huge number of customers versus Momentum starting from scratch with gas and having a much smaller electricity customer base too. In some cases (notably Origin Energy) the big players even produce their own gas. And yet Momentum has simply walked in and undercut them on retail pricing with no real difficulty.

Someone's making a lot of money sending out gas bills it would seem. 

Back to the NSW election context, the real issue in all this discussion about utilities is that we've moved from a model based on serving the public at the lowest possible cost, to a model based on maximising profit. That's the crux of it and the same applies to power, gas, water and to some extent even roads.


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## drsmith (28 March 2015)

The multi-coloured Greens,


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## SirRumpole (28 March 2015)

Smurf1976 said:


> Back to the NSW election context, the real issue in all this discussion about utilities is that we've moved from a model based on serving the public at the lowest possible cost, to a model based on maximising profit. That's the crux of it and the same applies to power, gas, water and to some extent even roads.




Of high concern must be "commercial in confidence" contracts which are an excellent means of hiding all sorts of trash from public eyes.

In NSW, roads have been closed that would compete with privately run tollways and there is usually some sort of profit guarantee built in that only comes to light after a change of government. 

That's why a 99 year lease is so absurd. It locks us in to current technology for nearly a century. If someone comes up with an efficient solar battery system that does away with poles and wires, does the taxpayer have to compensate the leasing company ?

Leases of public assets should be no more than 10 years, and all the terms of the contract must be made public and voted on before the contracts are signed.


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## noco (28 March 2015)

The voters of NSW have finally woken up to the lies and empty rhetoric of the Green/Labor socialist party.

Perhaps Martin Ferguson, Michael Costa and Peter Beattie may have had some influence in the out come.....Labor must surely be also worried about how the Greens are stealing their votes....They have gone too far to the left and it is about time Labor got back to their true grass roots not that the Greens are any better...far from it.

I am sure there will be a rub off Federally as well.......Voters are finally beginning to realize just where the Green/Labor socialist coalition are heading and it is not good news.


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## Ferret (28 March 2015)

Mike Baird's personal popularity went a long way to ensuring the LNP victory. 

I expect that federally Abbott will get a boost from this result, but he isn't half the leader that Baird is.


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## McLovin (28 March 2015)

Ferret said:


> Mike Baird's personal popularity went a long way to ensuring the LNP victory.
> 
> I expect that federally Abbott will get a boost from this result, but he isn't half the leader that Baird is.




Baird's popularity lies in the fact that he can control the centre and isn't a partisan hack like Abbott. If anything, this result shows that the electorate is tired of ideological brawlers with zero real world experience, and wants leaders that understand what pragmatism means. Thank God Sydney is getting those new roads as well.

Hopefully at the federal level they get the balls now to roll Abbott. The idea that you can't win successive elections because the electorate has changed is just BS invented by unpopular politicians.


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## Tink (29 March 2015)

Good result for Australia.

Lucky you, McLovin, getting your roads. 
We, Victorians, have been told to go cattle class, on public transport.

On the NSW election day, Labor plastered images of the Prime Minister over election day posters, with Labor frontbencher Anthony Albanese telling voters that - 

“If Luke Foley is elected Premier then Tony Abbott will be gone next week’’.

Does that mean Bill Shorten is under fire.


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## SirRumpole (29 March 2015)

The Libs were always going to win, but a swing of 9% to Labor means a lot of people are worried about the big issue of electricity privatisation.

Hopefully the swing will convince the Libs to modify or abandon that policy.


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## Ferret (29 March 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> The Libs were always going to win, but a swing of 9% to Labor means a lot of people are worried about the big issue of electricity privatisation.
> 
> Hopefully the swing will convince the Libs to modify or abandon that policy.




Unlike Abbott, Baird has been totally up front about what he would do if elected.  He has a legitimate mandate to sell the electricity assets now.


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## noco (29 March 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> The Libs were always going to win, but a swing of 9% to Labor means a lot of people are worried about the big issue of electricity privatisation.
> 
> Hopefully the swing will convince the Libs to modify or abandon that policy.




I would say the swing was a correction from the disaster Labor experienced in 2011 and is nothing for them to crow about.

Mike Baird has a mandate and Labor should honor that mandate....Why should Baird modify or abandon that policy....Labor are sore losers and must accept the fact voters have thrown their support by the Liberals policy....It is called democracy...Something the Fabians don't believe in..

Labor should begin to rethink their strategy....stop the lies....stop the scare campaigns......get back to the real grass roots of Labor and move away from the influence of the Greens... This Labor Party are not the same party they were 70 years ago.

Labor's lies and rhetoric might have worked in Victoria and Queensland, but the people of NSW have taken heed of the results and the outcome in those other two states.


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## SirRumpole (29 March 2015)

Ferret said:


> Unlike Abbott, Baird has been totally up front about what he would do if elected.  He has a legitimate mandate to sell the electricity assets now.




So you agree that a 99 year lease is a "sale" ?


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## Ferret (29 March 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> So you agree that a 99 year lease is a "sale" ?




Yes, it's effectively a sale.  

It would be nice for the state keep the assets, but Baird's plans to build new infrastructure with the funds raised are sound.  The concept of "asset recycling" has merit.  

Labor were also promising new infrastructure, but little mention of how they would pay for it .....


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## Logique (29 March 2015)

The final makeup of the NSW upper house (LC) is the one to watch.

Fred Nile's Christian Democrats may end up with the balance of power.


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## drsmith (29 March 2015)

Someone's lost their lazy $10.


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## Smurf1976 (29 March 2015)

Ferret said:


> Yes, it's effectively a sale.
> 
> It would be nice for the state keep the assets, but Baird's plans to build new infrastructure with the funds raised are sound.  The concept of "asset recycling" has merit.




A sale - in practice 99 years is a sale. Very few if any who voted in this election will be alive when the lease ends.

As for the "asset recycling" well that really depends on what the new assets are, how they are financed overall, and whether there's anything dodgy in either their construction or financing.

A publicly owned water supply system - seems reasonable.

A "public private partnership" toll road or practically any other PPP - pretty much corruption based on past examples.

There's also the question of how it's built. Let's hope we don't see the old trick of paying $2 billion to a preferred contractor for an asset that's worth $1 billion once built. Labor and Liberal are both pretty good at that game.

But the election has been held, so the government does have a legitimate case to proceed with the sale (or "lease" as they call it). No real argument there.


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## Craton (29 March 2015)

I'm curious to see if those now elected keep to the promised $millions in securing water for the Far West. Seems a pole and wire sale is the way to funding it.

Although, better water management coupled with better agribusiness methods would seem a far better solution in the long run IMHO.

Good luck Mr Baird and barring further ICAC sheningans, long may you serve us well and yes, make no mistake, I'd be saying the same to Mr Foley if he was elected.


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## Logique (29 March 2015)

Craton said:


> I'm curious to see if those now elected keep to the promised $millions in securing water for the Far West. Seems a pole and wire sale is the way to funding it.......



I hope so too. 

But it's ironic that these same parts of the the state were bitterly opposed to 'poles and wires', and through the National Party, secured an exemption to leasing for Essential Energy. 

Does 0% 'privatized' = 0% of the funds for water supply? No they won't be held accountable for their irrationality. A bit like the Greens in that respect.


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## sptrawler (29 March 2015)

I think it is great, how the media ranted on, that Abbott caused the loss of State elections.

Today on the t.v news and Fairfax, very little said. lol


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## Knobby22 (30 March 2015)

Good to see. That rubbish in the papers that voters are completely disengaged has been proven wrong.
From what I saw from this distance, Labor failed to understand that they had to win the NSW election, not the Fed election.

Good to see intelligent voting and a discussion of issues. I hope the Federal Libs learnt a few lessons and will now stop treating us like children and be prepared to engage the public. 

Yes noco, you were right which meant the Queensland election must have showed a very poor performance from the incumbents.


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## orr (30 March 2015)

drsmith said:


> Someone's lost their lazy $10.




There's a silver lining to so many clouds... To distract the distempered from their aching hate boner for the poor oppressed and wretched of the world even if momentarily is a good thing(particularly for the distempered). 19%(?) swing against Goward, is that to do with the proximity to Captain Clown shoes?, a CSG revolt in the North. And Go the Jets, Newtown goes Green.


_'Newtown is fly'n
There'll be no deny'n 
Newtown Newtown

See the Boy's all dressed in Blue(green)
See the blue(green) Bags come'n threw
Newtown Newtown

13 boy's all dressed in blue(green).....
_
The destruction of the Liverpool plains...well, you can light a sparkler and enjoy yourself in your back yard with that one doc.


Get down to Henson u'all, where the football hardly matters and it's a great arvo for the kids.


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## noco (30 March 2015)

*They say 3rd time lucky but for the Green/Labor socialist left the lies and propaganda that worked in Victoria and Queensland has back fired on them in NSW....Voters in NSW saw what has already happened in Vic. and QLD. and were not going to be fooled. 

Labor now have some deep thinking to do in the way they are heading...If they continue down the democratic socialist path, they might find it will come back to bite them on the bum....They have to get back to the grass roots of what Labor really should be standing for and not lies and populism. 


http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/.../reforming_the_economy_shouldnt_be_this_hard/

 And thanks to Rowan Dean for this vote of thanks to Queensland Labor:

    DEAR Queenslanders, the people of New South Wales, and indeed of all of Australia, owe you, our Queensland cousins, an enormous debt of gratitude on this pleasing Monday morning…

    I refer of course to your extraordinarily generous ... decision to elect, some weeks ago, a completely unskilled, amateurish, novice, unprepared, clueless Labor government instead of sticking with the conservative one you had which, despite some personality flaws, was actually making a good fist of improving Queensland’s economic future.

    ...this was Queensland’s cunning and extremely effective method of warning the rest of Australia how easy it is for an economically sound government to be swept away by a party with no ideas, no policies, and nothing but a bunch of union-funded anti-privatisation claptrap to sell itself with. All it took was a Labor Party offering nothing whatsoever except the Luddite promise of retaining state assets and enough people were seduced into voting for them because ... they didn’t much like the cut of Campbell Newman’s jib.

    Meanwhile, inspired by Annastacia’s antics, NSW Labor decided to pull the exact same stunt. “No Sell Off” posters appeared the length and breadth of the state, coupled with sinister black and white photographs designed to convince the electorate that Mike Baird and Tony Abbott were the modern equivalent of the notorious Kray twins, much as Labor in Queensland had done linking Newman to Abbott. So self-deluded was NSW’s alternative premier Luke Foley that he actually articulated this strategy: “If Mr Baird goes on Saturday, Mr Abbott goes on the Monday”, he told a rapturous group of the faithful.

    I expect Mr Foley to acknowledge the flip side of his inarguable logic; namely, that he accepts that the overwhelming win for Mike Baird is an equally strong endorsement of Tony Abbott, and condemnation of the empty policies of Bill Shorten. 

(Many thanks to reader Peter of Bellevue Hill. Thanks, too, to reader Doc Molloy.*)


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