# America Is Bankrupt



## verminator (12 September 2005)

America Is Bankrupt.
by Mike (in Tokyo) Rogers


A recent trip to the United States – after a three-year absence –
showed me how far the country and its people have deteriorated in a
short period of time. Americans are bankrupt. They are bankrupt at
every possible level: spiritually, morally, educationally. The
country's economy has deteriorated to the level of a Philippines or a
Thailand (and I mean no disrespect to the Philippines or Thailand – I
love those places).

Human-to-human communication in the United States has also faltered
greatly. People who would rank as the vilest of trolls on any
Internet chat room are now on the air as TV and radio hosts, spewing
forth hatred and even barefaced lies. These talking heads do this, of
course, to make money, but the effect it has on the average listener
is nothing short of devastating. It is devastating to a population
not educated to think analytically; it is devastating to a people
who – above all – need to open up communication with each other, not
close it.

Intelligent discussion on American TV and radio has now taken a back
seat to a sort of childish one-upmanship. It's no longer a question
of who can thrust and parry their opponent into a corner through the
use of beautiful English phrasing and logic; it's now a question of
who can belittle the other with snappy (but rude) one-liners. This
has affected the mainstream population in its daily affairs, in that
the ordinary people come to believe that this is the way to win an
argument. Substance and logic all take a back seat to name-calling.

The worst culprits are the talk radio show hosts. Average America
doesn't know what is involved in becoming a talk show host, but trust
me, just about all of these people are no more or less intelligent
than you or I. Of course, they keep up on current events better than
you or I could: It's their job. While we are putting in a good eight
or ten hours of work each day, these guys are brushing up on current
affairs. As a result, it is very difficult to challenge and defeat
them in an on-air discussion – especially when they have control of
what goes on air. So to call up a talk show host and try to argue a
point and win is akin to pushing water up a hill: It can't be done. I
know. I worked as a talk show host for many years.

By the way, another part of the job of being an on-air talent is to
keep yourself looking good and in decent physical shape. Guys like
Rush Limbaugh are grossly overweight because they are, and have been,
abusing drugs or alcohol. There are many examples to prove my point.
John Belushi is an easy example that comes to mind.

Thus, in modern America, talk show radio and TV is not about debating
the issues of the day. It is a forum for a megalomaniac to make
himself or herself look better to an audience that doesn't know any
better, and to belittle opponents in front of other people. This
never happens in Japan. It doesn't happen because the structure of
the Japanese language does not lend itself well to interruption when
someone is speaking, and also because the Japanese are polite. But I
suspect that it never happens in any other country excepting the
United States.

This childish behavior is especially damaging to the psyche of the
American male – although women seem to be affected by it also
(witness so-called "soccer moms"). It seems that winning is
everything. Whatever happened to the saying, "It's not whether you
win or lose, but how you play the game"? I know that this phrase does
not apply to today's American male. The verbal one-upmanship is
insidious as it begins to creep into other areas of the American
psyche. It becomes contagious and is damaging to civil discourse and
civil behavior all around.

Infantile machismo is a definitive trait of today's American. During
my recent visit I witnessed a TV commercial for some sports car. The
sales point of the commercial boiled down to this: If you buy this
car, then that tells your friends, `I'm just a little better than you
are.' How childish American men have become. What kind of man needs
to show off his car, and to feel superior to his friends?

Imagine a guy with an average vocabulary and no gift for repartee.
What does he do when he has been belittled in public for no real
reason? He probably holds it in, until one day when he raises his
fists.

In Japan, I have never seen a sports game – especially so-
called "pick-up games" – break down into fisticuffs. Have I seen this
in America? Have you folks in America seen this? Yes, far too many
times (do I even need to ask?). The last time I witnessed it was in
California, when a so-called friendly basketball game turned into a
hockey game and a bunch of guys started punching it out over some
foul. You would have thought their lives depended on the outcome of
that game. It was embarrassing. I was out on the court to get some
exercise. I didn't care if we won or lost. I certainly wasn't
interested in getting hurt, or injured, or hit. I walked off.

Americans today have become some of the most childish, self-centered
adults I have ever seen.

A recent trip to Crawford, to visit Camp Casey before it really got
into full swing, allowed me to see for myself another slice of
American life. I had brought my video camera and eight hours of tape.
I was going to make a documentary to try to explain to the Japanese
public what was going on there in Texas. (Japanese news will rarely
show anything critical of a foreign government – especially the
government of the United States). I wanted to capture the sights and
sounds; the atmosphere of a real American-style anti-war
demonstration. I had really hoped that I could make a documentary
that would show the Japanese just what the average American is
thinking.

When I came back to Japan, I transferred the video tapes to the
editing machine and I watched in increasing despair. I'm sure I can
get the average Japanese to understand what Americans are all about
and what they are thinking. I'm sure that if I ever do finish this
documentary (and I'm wondering now if I want to), the Japanese will
understand more than they want to understand about America. They will
watch it and think: "Americans have gone completely nuts." I would
have to agree.

Cindy Sheehan and her movement are quite understandable. Cindy seems
like a level-headed woman with plenty of common sense. It's the
others who have jumped on the bandwagon who seem crazy. Not all of
them, of course, but it did seem a bit like a circus full of freaks.
And those freaks were fully represented on both sides of the fence.

Even worse than (some of) the anti-war group were the pro-war people –
they seemed like they were really crazy. (I only saw six at most –
even though the next day's newspaper reported 250.) I talked to one
woman who claimed to have "just arrived from Baghdad." She was lying.
I could pick that out in a second of talking to her. Her English
level was that of someone who had been in the United States for ten
years. Yet there she was, claiming to have "just arrived." (Well,
okay, I suppose everything is relative, especially in a country where
it is now acceptable to out-and-out lie to get what you want.)

There was another guy playing a guitar – or trying to – and
singing, "How many ghosts did you make today? Aiding and abetting the
enemy, how many ghosts did you make today?" (Bet you a donut he
hasn't a clue as to the meaning of the word `abetting'). I suppose a
few off-key choruses of this song wouldn't have been so bad, but this
guy went on to play straight for at least six hours in the blazing
sun without a break. Perhaps that would explain his behavior – he's
suffering from cooking his brain in the hot sun for too long.

The entire scene, from the anti-war group to the pro-war group to
George W. Bush taking a helicopter to avoid those groups to visit a
little league game, seemed like a Lewis Carroll story. And I was
standing there watching Alice, the Mad Hatter, the Red Queen (played
by George) and the rest of them scurrying about their business but
actually going nowhere.

On top of all that, throw in the local TV news reporters with their
perfect teeth, slicked-back blonde hair and make-up caked on thick to
cover their wrinkles, who think they are all hot stuff because they
report for some local in-the-sticks TV station, and you have a real
life horror-show on the Comedy Channel.

But the real-life horrors in today's America don't end there. Today's
American is poor, both monetarily and in common sense. In many ways,
these two are related. The Japanese save money. Americans don't. Of
course it is common sense to save money. The Japanese save for all
the right reasons, but they also save money for special reasons. It's
those special, just-in-case reasons for which the Japanese would
always have a nest egg saved.

When I went to the United States this time, I visited a good friend.
I'd consider him one of my best friends. I am glad I could visit his
place because then I could truly see for myself just how far America
has gone downhill. Even though he had little, he was gracious enough
to let me stay with him. I was thankful for this as, without his
help, I had no way to get around and knew no one else who could help
me to do so. But within two minutes of entering his abode, I could
see just how poor Middle America has become.

My friend had no money – none. He asked me for twenty dollars for
gas. I gave him a hundred. He was happy. I was greatly disappointed,
for many reasons. First off, I'm sorry America, but $100 is not that
much money to most of the Western world (or China, or Japan). I was
disappointed that he would ask me for money. Don't get me wrong, I
don't blame him. He has lived all his life in America; he was brought
up there. He has been taught that this is now acceptable behavior.
But I remember a time when it wasn't. It is unheard of in Japan (and,
I suspect, in all Asian societies).

In Japan, a guest is a guest. A guest in your home – especially one
from far away – is to be treated with reverence. It would be
completely unthinkable to ask a guest for money (although it is also
common sense, in Japan, for the guest to offer to pay – an offer
which will certainly be refused).

I know it used to be this way in America. In Japan, honor and respect
are much more valuable than money. If you had a guest come to stay in
your house in Japan and you had no money, you would borrow money –
you would do something – in order to treat your guest with the utmost
respect. It is absolutely unheard of to ask a guest for money.

It reminds me of that Chevy Chase movie Vegas Vacation where he and
his family visit his wife's broke family and the brother-in-law says
to Chevy, "Would you like a cold one?"

Chevy answers, "Sure!"

To which the brother-in-law replies, "Me too. Got any money?"

That was a joke in a movie released in 1997. It's not a joke any more
in today's America.

From what I've seen, the average 30-year-old college-educated guy in
America today is getting paid less than I was paid in 1975 as a part-
time commission salesman at Sears Roebuck department store. I have
friends who tell me that they are getting six or eight dollars an
hour right now. At 40 hours a week, that works out to about $320,
less taxes. In 1975 I was getting paid over $1,000 per month after
taxes – and those were 1975 dollars. I'm no economist, but it sure
comes as no surprise that today's young American has no money left to
save after receiving this paltry income.

When my friend took me around, driving through the city and out to
Camp Casey, we stopped at a gasoline stand. Of course I volunteered
to pay. He was complaining about the sudden rise in the price of
gasoline. Here was where I witnessed just another small item that
made me sure that America is headed for third world status, if it is
not already there. He was complaining about gasoline at $3 a gallon.
I hear that in Atlanta, after Hurricane Katrina, it hit $6 a gallon.

I shook my head and thought, When are these crazy people going to
wake up? Apparently it's good that the USA invaded Iraq to secure
oil. Japan has no natural resources. America does. America even has
its own oil. Guess what? About seven years ago, the price for a liter
of gasoline in Japan was 100 yen (3.78 liters per gallon). The price
today is about 125 yen per liter. That means today's price for a
gallon of gasoline in Japan, a nation that produces no oil, is about
$4.58 – an increase of 25% over the last seven years. Now, it doesn't
take much of a math whiz to figure out that if the prices at the
pumps in America – a nation that produces oil – have doubled in the
last few years, there's something strange going on. How is it
possible that Japan's gasoline prices have just barely inched up over
these past few years, at about 3% per year, while USA prices have
doubled or more?

Is it just the Iraq war? Or is it the decline of the dollar? Probably
a bit of both, but you can definitely be sure of one thing, it is the
US government taking advantage of you – regardless of whether you are
a Democrat or Republican. And the average American still cheers on
the federal monster.

After filling up, we headed back onto the freeway. I looked at the
scenery and had a feeling of dÃ©jÃ  vu. I thought to myself, Hey! I've
seen this before. Now where did I see it? Then it came back to me:
The road leading to Crawford looked an awful lot like the road
leading from Phuket International Airport towards Patong Beach – a
nice place, but definitely not a road leading through a world power.

Every once in a while we would pass through some small town – the
buildings decayed and shuttered, a shadow of what it once was. And
besides the rundown buildings and the empty streets, there was the
filth. It was everywhere – everything seemed broken down. Public
restrooms reeked as if they'd never been cleaned. Every once in a
while I would see a solitary homeless figure – dazed and disheveled –
walking by the side of the road. It looked just like some third world
nation. You'd never see such poverty in Japan. But that's today's
United States.

Americans are always boasting about how they are the richest and the
freest, etc., etc. But from the eyes of this American son, America's
twilight has fallen. It is getting dark. I cannot see any way out of
the disaster you folks are headed for. The problems are too numerous,
the needed debate unheard, and the psyche already destroyed.


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## Stan 101 (13 September 2005)

Never see such poverty in Japan? How many places should I mention? Step 30 minutes out of Tokyo on the line to Narita and send another post.

But to conclude, are you suggesting I buy shares in talk radio stations, flanalette fabric (we all know how a redneck loves that pattern) or both.


Cheers


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## excalibur (13 September 2005)

True Story!

Ignorancy turns humans into slaves.
Moral slaves, spiritual slaves and intellectual slaves!

Who knows? Maybe they will start building pyramids in Texas.


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## Mofra (13 September 2005)

Interesting article.

Last year I was told by a travelling American Journalism student that 98% of media content in the US is domestic. If US citizens are seen as being either ignorant of world affairs or too arrogant to care, what other source of information do they received to believe otherwise?


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## DTM (13 September 2005)

Stan 101 said:
			
		

> Never see such poverty in Japan? How many places should I mention? Step 30 minutes out of Tokyo on the line to Narita and send another post.
> 
> Cheers




Thats not exactly poor.  Buildings may look old but the people are better off than in any other country in the world.  They have more money than they know what to do with.

Even the homeless (not many) in Ueno park are cleaner and healthier.


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## Julia (13 September 2005)

Verminator,

Aren't you generalising somewhat about Americans?

I could take you to more than twenty Australians in my regional district whose living  conditions are worse than you describe applying to the friend with whom you stayed.  You say "we went for a drive", so presumably your friend has a car.  Every week, as a community worker, I see people who not only cannot afford a vehicle, often they cannot afford rent and are therefore homeless or living in a temporary refuge.  In some cases, the poverty is self induced.  But in many others, it absolutely is not.  Take the case of a 60 year old single woman, on a Disability Pension.  She has cancer, a serious neurological disease, cardiovascular disease plus orthopaedic problems.  She 
can walk no further than 50 metres.  Her medication bill per week is from $40 - $60.  Her rent is $190 pw.  Her pension including rent assistance is $270 pw.  That leaves her about $30 pw to live on.  This has to cover her food, transport, clothing - the lot.  Obviously, it is simply not possible.

People like this are forced into high interest loans if, eg, the fridge dies.  Then they have to try to find the repayment money.  It just isn't there.

Can most of us who contribute to this forum even begin to imagine how it must be to be so very sick, and to be constantly in poverty as well.

So, before you rant about how badly America treats its citizens (and I'm not disputing that, and neither do I have any brief for the present US administration or any of its policies), perhaps you could exert a little of your outrage towards doing something towards the care of your fellow Australians.

Julia


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## Joe Blow (13 September 2005)

I agree Julia.

Verminator you are quite welcome to contribute to the discussions here and to start threads on topical issues if you wish but I would like to stress that there is no place for hatemongering on Aussie Stock Forums, so please tone down the rhetoric a little.

Also, I'd appreciate it if your posts were a little shorter. Rather than posting entire articles, please quote only the first few paragraphs and then include a link so people can click through and read the rest of the article themselves if they are interested. 

Thank you.


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## DTM (13 September 2005)

Julia said:
			
		

> Verminator,
> 
> Aren't you generalising somewhat about Americans?
> 
> ...




Hi Julia

I agree that a lot of work still has to be done in this country but the disparities in the US dwarf the poverty we have here.  Nearly 1 in 5 americans live in poverty.  We are living in the promised land compared to the US.  We have a welfare safety net here where the people you mentioned above wouldn't have that money made available to them.  People may complain about paying taxes but they do support a part of the community in need.  In the USA, the rich get richer from the working class. $3 per hour minimum wage (I think from memory).  Also saw something where the range for wages for Manhatten was 7k compared to 300k per annum.  Also America has very high infant mortality rate with rankings of 42nd safest country to have a baby in the world.  Much higher chance of survival if baby is born in Beijing.

In my opinion, Johnny Howard is making sure that we are following in Americas footsteps with the changes to Industrial relations reform.  Lower wages MAY equate to more jobs (although the US are still losing their industries to overseas) but less money all round for people.  I think that the way we are becoming more pro business bodes ill for our future.  It will end up with less money for working class people.  Not even mentioning being mortgaged to the hilt.


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## wayneL (13 September 2005)

DTM said:
			
		

> ....we are following in Americas footsteps.....




Not just in IR, unfortunately :-(


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## phoenixrising (13 September 2005)

Judgements flying in that article  

Sure we know the yanks can be loud and abrasive at times but I think the writer needs to separate cultural differences from financial ones. Granted the US has many challenges ahead but I don't see third world status yet.

The US is good at reinventing itself, I wouldn't write them off.
Japan has been out of sight for the last 15 yrs, I can remember the proud boasts of the Emperor's Palace grounds being worth more than the state of California. None of those types of claims these days.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (14 September 2005)

I'm tired of America bashing! It really shows a lack of knowledge. 
Look into:
 Germany's failed welfare system and growing Naziism
 Japan's failed welfare system and the sex slave trade
 Russia's politics 
 North Korea's discrimination of its populace 
 China's growing divide, which is worse than that of America
 Australia's failure to invest in infrastructure and a future failing of the     welfare system
 Class struggles and discrimination in Thailand
 Robert Mugabe's freak show of a starving nation and soon to be copy cat    South Africa 
 Mass corruption in Indonesia with poverty at levels you would not imagine
 Latin America's drug trade 
 Failed Argentina
 And on and on and on....


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## wayneL (14 September 2005)

Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> I'm tired of America bashing! It really shows a lack of knowledge.




Really?

I come from the US. I was raised in Huntington Beach, California. I have relatives who live there. Some of the most vehement USA bashers are the Americans themselves. The author of the above article is indeed, an American.

The conflict is in the fact that The USA says it is "this", but the reality of the US is "that". 

Therefore they are not true to their own ideals, what they say they are trying to achieve, which is why many Americans are critical of the USA, and truly concerned about the direction their country is heading, both politically and societally (if thats a word).

You need to look deeper than the 5 second sound bites, the flag waving, the patriotism (jingoism), the america saves the world movies, and see what they don't want you to see, to truly understand their culture as it has now evolved.

American influense is all pervading and all encompassing. We, outside of the US have every right to cast a discerning eye over their actions as it affects us all. We have every right to critisize, as we are obliged by certain treaties to support the US in their actions.

We need to ascertain whether this ultimately serves Australia as a nation and we need to evaluate the export of their culture into this country.

I personally don't think, in the long term, it will serve Australia well.

Cheers


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## It's Snake Pliskin (14 September 2005)

wayneL said:
			
		

> Really?
> 
> I come from the US. I was raised in Huntington Beach, California. I have relatives who live there. Some of the most vehement USA bashers are the Americans themselves. The author of the above article is indeed, an American.
> 
> ...




Hello Wayne,

The word is *socially*.

I wasn't having a go at anyone in particular on this forum. I see a lot of people blindly bashing America without looking at the big picture: The World.

I know many Americans like you; they have left and are quite concerned about their homeland. I am too, and don't blindly follow what America's politicians convey, be that the results of policies or comments on what America is rather than what it really is. 

As far as America saves the world movies go, there is a sense of irony there.  I have high respect for NASA and what it has achieved. 17 years until we come close to oblivion; that's if the scientists have their calculations right.

But lets have a look at the rest of the world and how it affects us here in Australia. Show me some rational objective opinions on other countries and their failures and I'll respect any requisite American bashing.

Don't confuse government with citizenry. There is a vast difference. 

Comment: America needs to wake up and have a good look at itself.


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## wayneL (14 September 2005)

Just a bit of good humoured and pedantic one upmanship LOL:

======================================================
From dictionary.com

1 entry found for *societally.*
so·ci·e·tal   Audio pronunciation of *"societally"* ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (s-s-tl)
adj.

    Of or relating to the structure, organization, or functioning of society.

*so·cie·tal·ly* adv.
=======================================================



> But lets have a look at the rest of the world and how it affects us here in Australia. Show me some rational objective opinions on other countries and their failures and I'll respect any requisite American bashing.




I can empathise withyour point of few. Many countries suck more than the US.

But what do these countries *say* they represent? What are their stated objectives and ideals? If they say "this" and do "that", they lose respect. Just like so many soviet bloc countries did. It led to their downfall. A society cannot live a lie any more than an individual.

Yes there is a lot of blind America bashing. But is it blind, or do they see the astonishing hypocricy and blatant double standards?

America proclaims equal opportunity, freedom, justice, democracy.....all the good things.

All the while American society is living up to the above ideals less and less, whilst shouting the words louder and louder!

....they're jealous of our freedom (belch!).... Oh by the way we've just passed the PATRIOT act, we can detain you indefinately without legal representation....and have a look at our new principles of eminent domain!

I could rant on _ad nauseum_ about such contradictions.

It makes me puke with revulsion that a country that began and for a long time, upheld noble ideals(so long as you weren't native or black ), only to drop them with the apparent complicity of the citizenry.

The real tragedy? We're following suit, so is the UK.

I truly love the highest version of American culture, who they say they want to be. Unfortunately, at present, they just aren't living up to it.

My ran.....er....view.
Cheers


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## excalibur (14 September 2005)

> But what do these countries *say* they represent? What are their stated objectives and ideals? If they say "this" and do "that", they lose respect. Just like so many soviet bloc countries did. It led to their downfall. A society cannot live a lie any more than an individual.



It is the politics in other countries that loose respect in this instance , and not the country. The US has had(just as China and Russia), a standard politics.Each one of which has its own pros and contras.
USA has been, the "Big Brother", the good example of riches and prosperity.And although we here are discussing the contrary, it will always be so. Something much more dramatic must occur in the States in order to change this order. Yes, China and Japan are using such propaganda to disrupt this , but remember that the media can be used to repair that.


> Yes there is a lot of blind America bashing. But is it blind, or do they see the astonishing hypocricy and blatant double standards?



Oh yes, they see the hypocricy and are well aware of the double stadards. It is this contadiction that keeps the people fooled and under control.
I read in the papers that Bush was thinking about using "nuclear weapons" to combat terrorism?????????? There may be alot of people who might believe that, otherwise, he wouldn`t have said that in the first place. 

I am an American as well Wayne. It hurts to see my country degrade. The only thing that we can do is to learn from the mistakes.


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## Knobby22 (14 September 2005)

The Simpsons, an excellent show, always show Lisa being President when she grows up due to her abilities. I think it is clever of the show's writers to do this because the truth is, in the present day, you would have to be rich, white and male to be President, in that order of importance. Ability has little to do with it, George W Bush exemplifies the new way.

I think there is a large part of the US populace that is trying to cause change but there is too much ignorance caused by reliance on "news" networks such as Fox and CNN, and the fall in popularity of newspapers. Also there is the problem with the general environment where you are not permitted to critiscise in public "the USA" and if you do, you are a traitor. This will make it difficult.

I was watching on SBS Jim N? who had reporters about the hurricane. They were thinking it would lead to the US changing direction and doing something about the poor. I believe that this incident will exercise some minds and affect some opinions and may become a force for change eventually however the US needs at least two more shocks in my opinion, unfortunately. Already, the media has succeeded in making you think of looters when you see the poor blacks. Why can't they break into a supermarket to take much needed water and food that is spoiling when their government is not doing anything? 

By the way, I agree with Wayne that Australia is going down the same path. I can't believe that the new terrorism laws have already been used to arrest a US citizen, without charge, and send him out of the country, merely, it appears to me, for attending left wing rallies.

Scary.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (14 September 2005)

wayneL said:
			
		

> Just a bit of good humoured and pedantic one upmanship LOL:
> 
> ======================================================
> From dictionary.com
> ...





Well, both words would suffice in the context written, can't argue with "Dictionary.com"


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## pussycat2005 (14 September 2005)

do we underestimate John Howard?
what sort of man befriends a mongrel like George Bush?
Is our country being held ransom
to the global crime syndicate operating out of the whitehouse?
Not many people know but little johnny's son works in the whitehouse 
worked in fact on george w bush's re-election campaign
Get the Liberals out of power! now!
unless we would like to follow America's path..


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## noirua (13 October 2007)

The slide in the US Dollar is now helping the United States to redress their current account deficit.

Many companies are seeing the advantages of exporting as they suffer higher material costs at home. Higher costs of imports are starting to benefit the US, and it looks increasingly likely that the DOW 30 will head on up.


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## rhen (13 October 2007)

Joe Blow said:


> I agree Julia.
> 
> Verminator you are quite welcome to contribute to the discussions here and to start threads on topical issues if you wish but I would like to stress that there is no place for hatemongering on Aussie Stock Forums, so please tone down the rhetoric a little.
> 
> ...




Joe,
Your comment astounded me!! Hatemongering?? Too long?? Hardly. I read the "offending" article and promptly emailed it to a friend in the U.S. for comment. The word associated with my feelings is "concerning". 
An excellent forum.


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## greenfs (13 October 2007)

noirua said:


> The slide in the US Dollar is now helping the United States to redress their current account deficit.
> 
> Many companies are seeing the advantages of exporting as they suffer higher material costs at home. Higher costs of imports are starting to benefit the US, and it looks increasingly likely that the DOW 30 will head on up.




It wont be long before the US interest rates will be higher than in Aussie as their current account deficit is clearly way over the top. Whilst sad to say, US domination of GDP is diminishing daily having reduced from 33% to 23% over the past decade (Source: Challenger Group) and I cannot see anything reversing the trend.

I just hope big time that we can disassociate our economy from US dominance so that we don't get dragged down the gurgler with them.


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## websman (13 October 2007)

America is not as bad off as this nut claims!

I'm an average American and I'm living better than ever.


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## prawn_86 (13 October 2007)

must consider the original post was made a couple years ago now. not that it makes too much difference.


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## Julia (13 October 2007)

websman said:


> America is not as bad off as this nut claims!
> 
> I'm an average American and I'm living better than ever.




Pleased to hear it, Websman.
Who is looking likely to be the next President?


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## websman (23 January 2008)

Julia said:


> Pleased to hear it, Websman.
> Who is looking likely to be the next President?




Sorry...Late reply.  I predict that the next president will be Barack Obama.


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## numbercruncher (23 January 2008)

websman said:


> America is not as bad off as this nut claims!
> 
> I'm an average American and I'm living better than ever.




So seen your living better than ever it means every other American must be as well? 


America has more debt and financial liabilties than she can ever expect to conquer short of massive inflaton, if this statement is wrong can someone prove it with facts and figures.

ie/ How is US going to repay foreign Debt and meet Social security/Medical etc going forward, at the end of WW2 US had 20 workers for each retiree over the next couple of decades that reduces to something like 2 workers for each retiree. And thats just the beginnng of troubles, consumers are maxed out on Debt hence the recent debacles in the worlds financial markets.


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## ithatheekret (23 January 2008)

We've got nothing to cheer about though NC.

2 Australian workers support one unemployed Australian and we have done since the 90's . I hope Kev can figure it out , but I don't like his odds .


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## noirua (23 January 2008)

websman said:


> Sorry...Late reply.  I predict that the next president will be Barack Obama.





After the last Clinton/Obama/Edwards broadcast it would indeed be funny, IMHO, if the American people turned on the front runners and put Edwards back in the running after Super-Tuesday.:topic

The assets of the United States of America both at home and abroad are so enormous there is really no problem. Anyway, a Country can't go bankrupt, it just stops paying its debt and carries on regardless.


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## KIWIKARLOS (23 January 2008)

The difference is we have super in oz and alot of retirees have enough money to live on or at least take a great amount of the possible financial burden off the rest of us. Without the super scheme we would be screwed. 

There is alot of ways the US can close its current account deficit eg.
1. Improved efficiency: by improving efficiency they will reduce demand for imported oil and become more competitive when exporting.

2. Stop the ways in Iraq and Afghanistan: I hate to think how much these two wars eat up but I imagine its well past the hundreds of billions in not only direct investment but also in the loss of growth that money could make if invested elsewhere.

3. encourage or force the chinese to increase the value of the yuan

etc

Also we have to remember the US now has control of the biggest and cheapest oil reserve in the world do you think they will let this cheap oil flow to China and India or make sure that US companies retain control and retain the profits. 

There is absolutly no reason why the destruction of the US economy that has been going on for the last decade or so can't be turned around in the next decade or so.

The problem is it requires intellegent and often painful decisions to be made that have reprocussions beyond that of the next presidential election.


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## battiwallah (23 January 2008)

Most of the posts have been about moral bankruptcy, but what about the economic bankruptcy of America.

Try this:http://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/review/06/07/Kotlikoff.pdf

A paper by Laurence Kotlifkoff of the Federal Reserve Bank in the USA who reckons America is really economically bankrupt, and he ought to know better than most!

Read it and weep:-(


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## tech/a (23 January 2008)

When I saw this threads headline I immediately thought.

Yeh and so are a lot of traders after yesterday!
My humor I'm afraid.


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## numbercruncher (23 January 2008)

And the "conclusion" from that link (Ive read it before today)



> CONCLUSION
> There are 77 million baby boomers now ranging
> from age 41 to age 59. All are hoping to collect
> tens of thousands of dollars in pension and healthcare
> ...


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## websman (25 January 2008)

numbercruncher said:


> So seen your living better than ever it means every other American must be as well?
> 
> 
> America has more debt and financial liabilties than she can ever expect to conquer short of massive inflaton, if this statement is wrong can someone prove it with facts and figures.
> ...




Screw the rest of America... I'm only out for myself.  BWAAAHAHAHA!!!


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## websman (25 January 2008)

noirua said:


> After the last Clinton/Obama/Edwards broadcast it would indeed be funny, IMHO, if the American people turned on the front runners and put Edwards back in the running after Super-Tuesday.:topic
> 
> The assets of the United States of America both at home and abroad are so enormous there is really no problem. Anyway, a Country can't go bankrupt, it just stops paying its debt and carries on regardless.





It would be funny....but not likely.


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## websman (25 January 2008)

Face it guys.... America will always be #1.


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## explod (25 January 2008)

websman said:


> It would be funny....but not likely.




The debt is to those holding US$.  To ellieviate the debt the dollar will be encouraged to continue its fall.   GWB said the other day "we have a strong economy and a strong dollar"    The charts say otherwise and the Fed contiues to dilute with the printing presses.     What is the value of the rescue package?   did I hear in excess of 100 billion ?? (just off the top)


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## GreatPig (25 January 2008)

websman said:


> Face it guys.... America will always be #1.



I'm sure others have thought similar in the past, like the Greeks, the Egyptians, the Romans, the Byzantians (or whatever they were called), and more recently the Brits.

Okay, the Brits haven't waned as much as the others yet, but their empire has certainly contracted.

Every dog has its day. 

Cheers,
GP


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## websman (26 January 2008)

GreatPig said:


> I'm sure others have thought similar in the past, like the Greeks, the Egyptians, the Romans, the Byzantians (or whatever they were called), and more recently the Brits.
> 
> Okay, the Brits haven't waned as much as the others yet, but their empire has certainly contracted.
> 
> ...




Australia could end up ruling the world one day...That would be cool.


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## GreatPig (26 January 2008)

If there's anything left worth ruling... 

GP


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## Aussiejeff (26 January 2008)

websman said:


> Face it guys.... America will always be #1.




I'm not so sure being #1 in the *Race to Bankruptcy* is a title worth claiming... so I guess the US desire to be #1 is all-powerful at all-cost, eh?

BTW, US markets tanked overnight (as many here probably expected) - down 170 pts or so on "further credit concerns" and the realisation that the Great Saviour GWB's rubber cheques might not actually get handed out for months yet...

If US stocks tank a further 200 pts or more on Monday (which I predict they will FWIW), our Happy little Vegemite market (slumbering fitfully through a long weekend after joyful rave partying on Thu-Fri) might just wake up on Tuesday to a whopping, migraine-induced hangover.... ouch. I can sense Tuesday morning's p-a-a-i-i-i-n-n-n-n already. 

Hark! Do I hear a Bear growling out the back paddock??? Looks like that weak old Bull is getting ready to bolt fer the hills agin...

*sigh*



AJ


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## websman (26 January 2008)

I'm just glad that America and Australia aren't enemies.  LOL


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## Green08 (1 October 2008)

June 25, 2008
HP-1057

• ISSUE BRIEF NO. 5

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
Issue Brief No. 5
Social Security Reform:Strategies for Progressive Benefit Adjustments

Introduction

This is the fifth in a series of Treasury issue briefs on topics related to Social Security reform. The fundamental reason Social Security must be reformed is that scheduled benefits under current law exceed the future revenues that the system is projected to take in. Specifically, scheduled benefits have a present value that is $13.6 trillion greater than the present value of the revenues that the system is projected to receive. Relative to scheduled benefits and taxes, therefore, the present value of benefits less taxes must be reduced by $13.6 trillion. This can be done by increasing revenues relative to what is provided for under current law and/or by lowering benefits relative to what are currently scheduled but not fully payable under current law.

http://www.ustreas.gov/press/releases/reports/ssissuebriefno. 5 no cover.pdf


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## noirua (31 October 2021)

Interesting comments on American Debt now expected to reach $4 trillion - what was it in 1964, well Mr Reagan will tell you early on in this speech.


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## divs4ever (31 October 2021)

i remember the derision  expressed  over Reagan's  economic policies  ( at the time )

 i wonder who is laughing now  ( and who is crying in shame )


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## qldfrog (31 October 2021)

divs4ever said:


> i remember the derision  expressed  over Reagan's  economic policies  ( at the time )
> 
> i wonder who is laughing now  ( and who is crying in shame )



Crying in shame? Never, the common point about politicians from all side but especially the left is to never ever admit to failure or error,even the most obvious look at our qld premier digging further and further.


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## divs4ever (31 October 2021)

i was hinting at those critics ( of Reagan )  and those now embracing Modern Monetary Theory  ( and lacking the skill to apply it effectively )

 but not to worry the US will have plenty of unsuccessful examples to learn from  ( but they probably won't )

 maybe the film 'Idiocracy ' isn't so far from the global future , after all 

 by the way MMT almost guarantees  ( actual ) inflation will be locked in for decades/centuries  , but the spin-doctors might have to redefine it as 'growth'


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## qldfrog (31 October 2021)

divs4ever said:


> i was hinting at those critics ( of Reagan )  and those now embracing Modern Monetary Theory  ( and lacking the skill to apply it effectively )
> 
> but not to worry the US will have plenty of unsuccessful examples to learn from  ( but they probably won't )
> 
> ...



The name in itself says it all, isn't it..as if basic economic principle could change .a bit like trying to build planes using a new modern gravity principle🥴
As a scientist/science heavy engineer, i am flagged basted by what pass now as sciences.we could shrug it off but when these flawn as hell concepts which are nearer from ideology or even idolatry define covid responses, global warming culprit(s) and actually end up endangering not only my lifestyle but my life, i feel like Galileo facing the inquisition


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## divs4ever (31 October 2021)

yes a lot of science seems to be hijacked  ( i grew up believing science was a SEARCH for the truth )

 one might suggest academia ( and the funding of it )  has a share of the blame

 but yes , 'junk science ' aplenty ,

  it will be interesting  to see if this is the new ' Dark Ages '  ( i won't be around to see if we dig our way out of this )


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## noirua (15 November 2021)




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## Rabbithop (15 November 2021)

verminator said:


> America Is Bankrupt.
> by Mike (in Tokyo) Rogers
> 
> 
> ...



A good reasoning article on America.  Been there a few times to different states, my first and lasting memory of each place was the shocking people's proverty comparing to Australia n South East Asia. Sure like you mentioned it's not at the worse YET, comparing to the 3rd world country but she is heading that way if no strong capable leaders arise to save her. 
America leads the world for years, a new leader is slowly marching up...Changing of the guard....


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