# Happy chemicals



## Gringotts Bank (7 July 2016)

In trading, it's essential to have a good cocktail of happy chemicals circulating around the nervous system.  Without this, you make poor choices (scientifically proven - can't find the papers but can dig them up if anyone wants).

This is an excellent resource, except that it doesn't mention meditation which is probably the most powerful way of improving chemical mix.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/files/attachments/59029/happy-chemicals.pdf


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## Gringotts Bank (8 July 2016)

Here I'm summarizing Breuning's excellent work and adding some of my own stuff which I've taken from other sources.  This is about becoming a profitable trader through altering the brain's chemical balance.  

- Allow 45 days which will probably feel like hard+ work.  Expect to feel a lot worse if you're cutting out unhealthy feelgood habits simultaneously (eating, internet addiction, drugs, alcohol, whatever it is).

1) *dopamine *-  take small steps towards a goal every day
                           -  recapitulate/reflect at the end of the day what was achieved

2) *serotonin *- recap/reflect on your importance in others lives (or become important in some way by doing something for someone else, unbidden).
                          - visualize being respected in work/family situations

3) *oxytocin* - Pay attention to emotions and allow them to be expressed accurately in words/actions.  This is about being genuine (or 'congruent' - Rogers).
                         - Doing this creates trust, and trust creates connection with others.

4) *endorphins* - Strenuous exercise.  Research shows that exercise does need to be very strenuous in order to trigger endorphin release.  A light jog won't do it.  Check with your doctor before going crazy, and build up gradually to avoid injury.


Hope this helps someone.  As a moment to moment thing, number 3 is the most important to be focussing on.


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## Gringotts Bank (8 July 2016)

Some other related but random stuff.

Everyone is addicted to something.  There are rare people who are exceptions, but generally speaking, everyone you ever meet in your life will be addicted to something.  All addictions are ultimately unhealthy, though some are much more problematic than others.  Exercise is often cited as being one of the most healthy addictions, but *even that* has downsides.  When you get old/injured, then what?  You just lose your endorphin supply and plummet into depression?  This is unfortunately the likely outcome for the hoards of cycling and gym junkies in years ahead as they age.  It's very hard to maintain intensive exercise after a certain age, and as mentioned, a walk around the block won't suffice.

Work/money addiction - yes, you get your dopamine and serotonin fix, but is this enough?  Look at Trump.  He would have a massive oversupply of both dopmaine and serotonin, but oxytocin (trust/connection) is likely to be in low supply.  Such addiction very quickly spills into a situation where your supply must come at the expense of others.  It's sustainable only if you bulldoze others.  Wall St is all about dopamine/serotonin (power/respect/money/status) at the expense of oxytocin (trust and connection don't exist).  

In modern society, the most balanced people are reliant on oxytocin primarily, with smallish doses from dopamine and serotonin.  However, even oxytocin (connection) is addictive.  When you age there's a high likeliehood that your connections will fall away or simply die.  This is why some people have heaps of kids - to ensure a constant supply of oxytocin.  The underying driver is "I'll never be alone", and I guess if you have 30 grandchildren at least some of them will be there to visit when you're aged.  But you can see the downside.  At age 90, your serotonin/dopamine supplies will be low, and this makes you less attractive to others, even family members *unless *strong connection has been established.  The awful stereotype is the grandfather from 'The Simpsons' who rambles on depserately trying to suck attention from his children/grandchildren.  But they get no value from the interaction, so they ignore him.  There's no connection - his family only value the dirty highs from dopamine/serotonin.  It's very clever script writing.

Meditation [paradoxically] can cause a huge supply of dopamine for those who are very skilled.  Meditation is the only non-addictive path.  Oxytocin is a close second and easier to achieve.  Oxytocin is the best lead-in to successful meditation.


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## Gringotts Bank (8 July 2016)

When I say meditation is the only non-addictive path, I'm not talking from a religious or philosophical point of view, but scientific.  Meditation is the only known way to create happiness which is unreliant on external circumstances.  The effects are cumulative, as opposed to the spike-drop-spike cycle of happiness which is externally driven.

http://eocinstitute.org/meditation/7-reasons-meditation-can-naturally-beat-addiction/


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## Gringotts Bank (8 July 2016)

So who's up for the 45 day challenge?  

This is stuff I haven't been nearly dedicated enough with for a long time, so I'll be doing it myself.  Today is day 1. I'll attempt to update daily with more techniques related to steps 2 and 3.  Steps 1 and 4 are pretty self-explanatory.

The aim is not just to feel better, but to see the market very clearly and make profitable decisions.  Mood and profitable decision-making are inextricably linked.


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## Wysiwyg (8 July 2016)

Gringotts Bank said:


> So who's up for the 45 day challenge?



Nuh. Too depressed at the moment. :


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## Gringotts Bank (8 July 2016)

Some research on the link between mood and profitable decision-making.

https://peerj.com/articles/770.pdf
https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/j...al_review_manuscript_june_16_final.final_.pdf


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## pinkboy (8 July 2016)

Gringotts Bank said:


> 4) *endorphins* - Strenuous exercise.  Research shows that exercise does need to be very strenuous in order to trigger endorphin release.  A light jog won't do it.  Check with your doctor before going crazy, and build up gradually to avoid injury.




I can attest this.  I've personally been in the hurt locker a few dozen times, but can honestly say I've been in the extensive pain threshold a handful of times - probably on the wrong side of the healthy edge mind you.

I'm always searching for something to break me, as each time a challenge presents itself physically/athletically, I need it to be longer/harder to get that real high.

Id say it is an unhealthy obsession, but then again, I could be doing worse things than exercising.

pinkboy


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## Gringotts Bank (8 July 2016)

pinkboy said:


> I can attest this.  I've personally been in the hurt locker a few dozen times, but can honestly say I've been in the extensive pain threshold a handful of times - probably on the wrong side of the healthy edge mind you.
> 
> I'm always searching for something to break me, as each time a challenge presents itself physically/athletically, I need it to be longer/harder to get that real high.
> 
> ...




Thanks for that.  I've read about 'runner's high' but never experienced anythig more than a calmness/warmth after exercise, which seems to kick in about an hour after finishing.

On this topic, cold showers will achieve something similar, but with a more rapid onset.  Basically, strenuous exercise and cold showers are just physical stress for the body.  The body responds by dumping endorphins and noradrenaline into the bloodstream.  Any sort of physical stress will achieve the same effect.  This is why some people in severe psychological distress will cut themselves.  There's a chemical payoff.


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## pinkboy (8 July 2016)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Thanks for that.  I've read about 'runner's high' but never experienced anythig more than a calmness/warmth after exercise, which seems to kick in about an hour after finishing.
> 
> On this topic, cold showers will achieve something similar, but with a more rapid onset.  Basically, strenuous exercise and cold showers are just physical stress for the body.  The body responds by dumping endorphins and noradrenaline into the bloodstream.  Any sort of physical stress will achieve the same effect.  This is why some people in severe psychological distress will cut themselves.  There's a chemical payoff.




This was me about a minute after riding 1,004km on a Mountain bike in 48hrs  (current world record).  With a bit over 2hrs to go I had 56km to get to the 1000km mark. 2hrs I was in serious hurt locker territory, the last 20min pretty excruciating. You can see the redness in my body from almost non stop torture for 2 days.

pinkboy


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## Gringotts Bank (8 July 2016)

pinkboy became redboy.  You do look happy though.  

I've noticed cyclists tend to combine their riding with caffeine to ramp up the high.  A bit like smoking after sex, or combining Redbull with your favourite alcoholic spirit.  None of these are long term solutions however.  I have a few 'crutches' I want to replace with healthier alternatives.


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## Gringotts Bank (8 July 2016)

PB, I have a question about the world record (congrats, by the way).

Do you think you got more immediate payoff from the record win, or the extreme physical exercise?  Such a cocktail of chemicals at once must have created a big high.

Makes me think of footballers wiining a GF.  The effect of intense exercise combined with the ultimate prize and an adoring crowd of 100,000+ people.  Often when players are interviewed months later, there's a burning desire to repeat the process and feel it again.  So whilst the record and some associated status remains forever, the feeling fades.  How long did your high last?


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## pinkboy (8 July 2016)

Gringotts Bank said:


> PB, I have a question about the world record (congrats, by the way).
> 
> Do you think you got more immediate payoff from the record win, or the extreme physical exercise?  Such a cocktail of chemicals at once must have created a big high.
> 
> Makes me think of footballers wiining a GF.  The effect of intense exercise combined with the ultimate prize and an adoring crowd of 100,000+ people.  Often when players are interviewed months later, there's a burning desire to repeat the process and feel it again.  So whilst the record and some associated status remains forever, the feeling fades.  How long did your high last?




Id say equal.  I was already souped up on high amount of caffeine and simple sugars (Coke, lollies, caffeine gels) so that I could make the 1,000km mark in the last couple of hours, so when I finished I was pretty buzzing.  As for the 'high' effect, Id say a few hours until I eventually got to bed (the best part is when you lay in bed, that quiet moment to yourself).  Then the next factor was 'restless legs' - my leg muscles were pulsing for a couple of days afterwards, plus the pain in the body was hampering my sleep efforts.

Now planning another record attempt.  48hrs riding up and down a hill (Most meters ascended on bicycle).  If I get the record, should provide suitable 'endorphin' release! 

pinkboy


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## Gringotts Bank (8 July 2016)

For anyone interested in supplements, this is probably the best website because it's completely researched-based.  You need not go anywhere else - it's briliant.

https://examine.com/supplements/?PageSpeed=noscript

Example supplements for mood that I feel are worth looking at - Fish oil, Rhodiola, Vit B12


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## CanOz (8 July 2016)

pinkboy said:


> Id say equal.  I was already souped up on high amount of caffeine and simple sugars (Coke, lollies, caffeine gels) so that I could make the 1,000km mark in the last couple of hours, so when I finished I was pretty buzzing.  As for the 'high' effect, Id say a few hours until I eventually got to bed (the best part is when you lay in bed, that quiet moment to yourself).  Then the next factor was 'restless legs' - my leg muscles were pulsing for a couple of days afterwards, plus the pain in the body was hampering my sleep efforts.
> 
> Now planning another record attempt.  48hrs riding up and down a hill (Most meters ascended on bicycle).  If I get the record, should provide suitable 'endorphin' release!
> 
> pinkboy




Stellar effort


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## Modest (8 July 2016)

http://nymag.com/news/intelligencer/modafinil-2013-4/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil



> There is disagreement to whether the cognitive effects modafinil showed in healthy non-sleep-deprived people are sufficient to consider it to be a cognitive enhancer.[136][137][138] *The researchers agree that modafinil improves some aspects of working memory, such as digit span, digit manipulation and pattern recognition memory*, but the results related to spatial memory, executive function and attention are equivocal.[136][137][138][139] Some positive effects of modafinil may be limited to "lower-performing"[139] individuals.[140] One study found that modafinil restored normal levels of learning ability in methamphetamine addicts, but had no effect on non-addicts.[141]


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## Gringotts Bank (8 July 2016)

Modest said:


> http://nymag.com/news/intelligencer/modafinil-2013-4/
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil




Just like cocaine, Modafinil is an upper and will make you feel fantastic.  But did you read the whole article you linked?  The last paragraph sums it up nicely.  

"Then he ran into an even bigger problem: *Skip a dose, and there would be hell to pay.* “I really would feel it. It was sort of like being thrust into dirty, messy reality, as opposed to a clean, neatly organized place. It was like crashing, and I actually found what would happen is the anxiety that got dialed down on the way in, when you were coming off it, all of a sudden you went through the reverse. So I got incredibly anxious. Eventually that concerned me.” He stopped after three weeks. *He says he’s more comfortable trying to get the same effect through meditation and, of all things, getting a good night’s sleep.* He remains a little in awe of the pill, though. “It’s a great hack.” "


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## Modest (8 July 2016)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Just like cocaine, Modafinil is an upper - will make you feel fantastic.  But did you read the whole article you linked?   The last paragraph -
> 
> "Then he ran into an even bigger problem: Skip a dose, and there would be hell to pay. “I really would feel it. It was sort of like being thrust into dirty, messy reality, as opposed to a clean, neatly organized place. It was like crashing, and I actually found what would happen is the anxiety that got dialed down on the way in, when you were coming off it, all of a sudden you went through the reverse. So I got incredibly anxious. Eventually that concerned me.” He stopped after three weeks. He says he’s more comfortable trying to get the same effect through meditation and, of all things, getting a good night’s sleep. He remains a little in awe of the pill, though. “It’s a great hack.” "




Really depends on the dose and frequency taken. I am not sure what kind of dosing regime he was on though. 

But you can definitely play with the dosing regime to reduce anxiety side effect... 

Biological half-life	15 hours (R-enantiomer)
                                4 hours (S-enantiomer)

Working around the above one would do a bit of testing to find the optimal regime. 

It may be as simple as splitting the pill into two and timing the intake based on the half life or taking the drug Every Other Day EOD. 

The side effect is common, example people using Phentermine based drugs for weight loss experience anxiety due to taking too high of a dose...example patient taking 30mg version vs same patient taking 15mg version...

Food for thought :_)


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## Gringotts Bank (8 July 2016)

Modest said:


> Really depends on the dose and frequency taken. I am not sure what kind of dosing regime he was on though.
> 
> But you can definitely play with the dosing regime to reduce anxiety side effect...
> 
> ...




Thanks for the info.  I'm not opposed to synthetic drugs, so long as the side effect profile is ok.  Will look into it further if I can't get the required changes doing more natural things.  Would be way off-label, I'm guessing, so there's that little hurdle to consider.


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## Gringotts Bank (14 July 2016)

https://www.traderbrainexercise.com/Content/NatureTraderIntuition.pdf

Found this by following skc's Bloomberg intuition training link.  On point.

Will factor it into my 45 day plan.  

Been feeling sh1thouse the last month and it looks like I may have to make a significant change to an aspect of my life, rather than just exercise more and think nice thoughts.  Some confusion around the 'what' and the 'how' is stressing me.

Could do with one of your _Limitless_ pills Modest!


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## Modest (14 July 2016)

Great link and interesting read thanks for sharing G! 



Gringotts Bank said:


> Could do with one of your _Limitless_ pills Modest!




You a cop? 

Anyway, why are you feeling sh1thouse, is it trading related or one of those things you just can't put a finger on it?


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## Gringotts Bank (14 July 2016)

Modest said:


> Great link and interesting read thanks for sharing G!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




PM me ... nah just kidding.

Work-related problems.


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## Gringotts Bank (22 July 2016)

So I changed a few things at work and noticed improvement.  I think I can sustain and take it further.

Took two of these questionnaires:  https://www.authentichappiness.sas.upenn.edu/

Found out my main strengths - well I guess I knew them already.  Trying to see how these can be employed to a greater degree.

Noticing how giving/service feels, and trying to see where that can be enhanced.  

And since the whole idea of this was to improve trading... yes, a good week this week.  The x factor of trading is mood.

Looking back at Breuning's suggestions, I'm not sure that this was the way to go.  Some things sound good on paper and then when you come to do them, nothing happens.  

Perferring what I've found on Udemy.com.  Plenty of courses there and some quite good.  example:  https://www.udemy.com/courses/personal-development/


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## Gringotts Bank (15 August 2016)

Three of the most useful changes have been:

- Trying to ensure high omega 3:6 ratio in my diet to reduce general body/brain inflammation
- Short meditation/biofeedback exercises multiple times/day
- Monitoring my thoughts/emotions more closely

I want to get to a better level before I consider taking this into discretionary trading.  I don't think I'll need to add anything new, but continued practice and skill development of mindfulness should help get me there.


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## PeterJ (15 August 2016)

thanks for the interesting thread GB
i am really enjoying it
to trade successfully continuosly
one must really be in a good place mentally and physically
a great reminder for me to let go of some vices !

thanks
Peter 

:hammer::hammer:


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## Gringotts Bank (15 August 2016)

PeterJ said:


> thanks for the interesting thread GB
> i am really enjoying it
> to trade successfully continuosly
> one must really be in a good place mentally and physically
> ...




Thanks Peter.  

If I can reach my goal I'll try and do a summary list of 'most' to 'least' useful items I needed to change.


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## Gringotts Bank (19 August 2016)

Flow FTW.  My account is up 8% in 2 weeks.  Mood more stable.  Few other issues to iron out.

A couple of good points here.

http://www.superhumanentrepreneur.c...00-learn-230-faster-skyrocket-creativity-700/


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## Gringotts Bank (24 August 2016)

I'm finding I have a major block on my progress in meditation - 'right speech'.

Pretty annoying, since I pride myself on speaking my mind whether positive or negative.

But all the reading I'm doing indicates that I'm not going to get my mind nearly as clear as I want without fixing this aspect.  Some online chats with guys who are advanced meditators has also revealed that a very high level of virtue is a requirement for going deep.  So that would mean not speaking or writing (or even thinking) critically about others.  That's going to be a tall order for me, but since I really want to get good at meditation I'm going to have to give a try.  I'll do my best not to become a Pollyanna.  The things we do for success.  

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca4/index.html#threefold


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## Gringotts Bank (24 August 2016)

In today's news I read this by Warnie:

"Whatever it is, I want more ... Cars, clothes, money, houses, can't have enough. I just want more cars, more money and more houses. In reality we are very lucky but I would just like to have more stuff," Shane said.  I like his honesty.  He said this after just spending 250k on a new Bentley and 16 mill on re-purchasing his old Melbourne home.  He has a 20 car garage for all his luxury cars.

What I'm wondering is this...

Right now, for me, I want more... and that wanting creates a feeling of disatisfaction.  It's the feeling of disatisfaction which drives the desire to succeed, because I think that I can be rid of that feeling forever if I get everything I want.  Is my disatisfaction any different to that of someone who has several expensive houses, cars, hot women, but still wants more?  Warne said he can't get enough.  That necessarily means he lives in a state of permanent disatisfaction/desire, like the rest of us.  It might be easier to keep that disatisfaction hidden, through constant purchases, but it's still there.

That's what this is about-  http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca2/index.html

Does anyone know if it's the same feeling?


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## shodd (29 August 2016)

Interesting thread!

Do you think that the desire for more can be linked to the strive for success? Almost like a side effect if you like. We as traders are constantly striving for perfect execution; for if we are to achieve it then the success will surely follow. And what better way to measure that success with all of the "stuff" you accumulate with the proceeds. 

There's a substantial amount of pain that we all go through when learning to trade; most never break out of the cycle. I think you're right in stating that the desire to want more is addictive, just as I think the desire to succeed is too. It's easy to get caught up in the daydream that follows a modicum of success. It's what spurs you on. The more stuff is the external validation that that you're using to release the dopamine. And as with anything pleasurable your brain will try an engineer repeat doses 

In the case of Warnie he's just trying to feel the same way he did when he was making fools of the world's best batsmen. And like many other elite sports people he's unlikely to ever obtain similar highs without some extensive inner reflection.

Interestingly I was at a baptism of a friend's baby boy over the weekend - the minister delivered a sermon on being humble and satisfied with the simple things in life. To derive pleasure from the small and not get too caught up lamenting what you don't have or can't achieve. I thought there's a lot in this message but I didn't think it would be compatible with the mindset I have when it comes to achieving what I want in trading. But after reading through this thread I would like to investigate meditation further. It may just be possible to separate these lines of thought, to get the best of both worlds......


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## Gringotts Bank (30 August 2016)

shodd said:


> But after reading through this thread I would like to investigate meditation further. It may just be possible to separate these lines of thought, to get the best of both worlds......




I actually ran into the same old problems I'd experienced previously with a certain style of meditation.  It has a tendency to dredge up old issues and make you feel a bit off.  The process is supposed to result in a release of the emotion, but that's not always the case (depending on the intensity of ones personal 'stuff').  Also, trying to free the mind by using the mind doesn't work.  There's a lot of pitfalls.

So I switched back to a body scanning type of meditation, which immediately had better results.  And I'll stick with this.  Body awareness reduces mental activity much better than breath/emotion/thought awareness.

-------------------------------

Nature designed desire to be uncomfortable.  If it wasn't, we'd have no drive to satisfy it.  We'd just put it off for another day.  I question why Nature put us on this ridiculous "hedonic treadmill" (see wikipedia) where we never get the satisfaction for very long before a new desire arises for 'bigger and better', more and more.  We're like slaves and I'm not sure people actually get this!  I guess I'm trying to break free.  The issue, as you say, is that the dopamine hit from achievement is highly addictive.  Dopamine from achievement is no different from dopamine from cocaine, except for the obvious health risks of the latter.  .  

------------------------------------

My theory is that not all material success is equal.  What differentiates the types is how the wealth is generated.  So the methods are:

- Cheat the system somehow - only for dummies.
- Become an _extremely_ tough and smart competitor.  70+ hrs/week, every week.
- Get into a flow state which attracts success

The paradoxical thing about the last option is that a desirous/greedy/fearful attitude has to be transcended.  I've posted on other threads several research papers which show how desirous/greedy/fearful attitudes are detrimental to trading profits.  The same appears to be true in business, but I have a limited sample size.  The difference between the 2nd and 3rd options couldn't be more stark.  The second fuels the fire of desire, the third aims to transcend it.  I imagine the second is the only way to create massive wealth, but it appears like true happiness gets bypassed in the process.  I'm not highly successful, so I just have to base it on snippets of meetings with such people - they seem very hardened.


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## Gringotts Bank (1 September 2016)

Breath meditation is such a revealing process.  Sitting-still-and-doing-nothing-at-all has the effect of bringing you into direct contact with your beliefs about personal goodness/okayness/worthiness.

If your 'goodness' as a person is maintained only through your actions/achievements, or through interaction with others, then the prospect of "sit and do nothing" will be highly threatening.  "Am I still good if I'm not doing something or getting attention from others?"  This is the question meditation brings you into contact with.   Irritation and restlessness can result.  

So those who do meditation easily must be those who have high self-acceptance.  Those who find it hard are probably relying on a sense of 'goodness' derived from doing/interacting.  Activity/interaction is a common defense against a core belief in unworthiness/defectiveness as a person.  "So long as I'm busy/achieving/interacting, I am ok".  This is *the *common human travesty.

*Linking it back to trading performance.*  It's known that those who trade very well are those who can get 'in the zone'  (zone = meditation, basically).  But getting into that state will require high self-acceptance, otherwise any attempt to get into this state will cause a feeling of threat (relating to the question of self-worth, as described above). I'm starting to see why so few people reach a high level of [discretionary] trading performance.  Modern society reinforces a self-worth which is contingent upon achievement/interaction, as opposed to a worthiness as a core, contingent-free reality.

Unfortunately, religions tend to encourage "being good" as a way of enhancing meditation, but if being good is used to prop up self-worth, then it's still external and contingent (not inherent).  Dangerous stuff.   It's a subtle aspect which I don't really understand very well.


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## Klogg (1 September 2016)

Must say, really good thread.



Gringotts Bank said:


> Nature designed desire to be uncomfortable.  If it wasn't, we'd have no drive to satisfy it.  We'd just put it off for another day.  I question why Nature put us on this ridiculous "hedonic treadmill" (see wikipedia) where we never get the satisfaction for very long before a new desire arises for 'bigger and better', more and more.  We're like slaves and I'm not sure people actually get this!  I guess I'm trying to break free.  The issue, as you say, is that the dopamine hit from achievement is highly addictive.  Dopamine from achievement is no different from dopamine from cocaine, except for the obvious health risks of the latter.  .




On this - I find that reading of the Stoic philosophy and aligning myself with these principles had the biggest effect in this area. The study of philosophy is hugely liberating if you share the same principles.

For anyone that's interested - "Letters from a Stoic" by Seneca has to be one of my favourites.



Now as for meditation, I also prefer to be aware of my body than my thoughts. It's almost like some sort of circular logic when I try to think myself into a meditative state.


And a final thought that hasn't been covered directly (I don't think...) - Whenever I'm pressuring myself for a certain result, the anxiety that ensues always kills my flow. Ironically, it's when I care less about the specific result that I perform better. 
I'm sure this is the case for most, as anxiety never really helps anyone...


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## Klogg (1 September 2016)

Sorry for the double post, but another thought on this - have you thought about playing with diet/nutrition in other ways? (other than supplements)

I listened to this and this and decided to make the complete change to a ketogenic diet.
As it turns out, the lack of insulin spikes and intermittent fasting (I skip breakfast + lunch twice a week) really work well for me. It's also caused me to drop weight, but I was carrying a little extra anyway so no harm.

FWIW - I'm now on a ketogenic diet for the last 7 weeks.


P.S. I'm no medical professional, so anyone with Type 1 Diabetes should be really careful with this.


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## Gringotts Bank (1 September 2016)

Klogg said:


> Sorry for the double post, but another thought on this - have you thought about playing with diet/nutrition in other ways? (other than supplements)
> 
> I listened to this and this and decided to make the complete change to a ketogenic diet.
> As it turns out, the lack of insulin spikes and intermittent fasting (I skip breakfast + lunch twice a week) really work well for me. It's also caused me to drop weight, but I was carrying a little extra anyway so no harm.
> ...




I'm using a low inflammation diet - basically salmon and grass fed meats and vegetables and not too much of fruits/carbs.  But I get hungry for food with sugar/fat content, so it's less than ideal.  

I'll have a look at ketogenic thanks.  Might be able to justify increasing fat content!


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## Gringotts Bank (1 September 2016)

Klogg said:


> Must say, really good thread.
> On this - I find that reading of the Stoic philosophy and aligning myself with these principles had the biggest effect in this area. The study of philosophy is hugely liberating if you share the same principles.
> 
> For anyone that's interested - "Letters from a Stoic" by Seneca has to be one of my favourites.




I agree - at some point there's a realization that we are literally slaves to desire.  Desire uses up our energy like a parasite, and gives us very little in return.  Achievement/attention is met by a shot of dopamine which feels great, but just like a casino, the system is designed to only reward us 'just enough and no more'.  The system wants us to keep  playing.  Eventually we realize we're not playing, but being played.  I mean we're being played by our own nature - human nature!

On the flipside, a Stoic/renunciate lifestyle can have disastrous effects on a person who's not ready for it.  It's just too easy to fall into the trap of denying feelings/drives/emotions, and this can severely aggravate a shame-based personality, leading to melt down!  My [current] understanding is that things have to be done in the right order.  A healthy self image first, then a moving away from pleasure/pain fixation.


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## Klogg (1 September 2016)

Gringotts Bank said:


> On the flipside, a Stoic/renunciate lifestyle can have disastrous effects on a person who's not ready for it.  It's just too easy to fall into the trap of denying feelings/drives/emotions, and this can severely aggravate a shame-based personality, leading to melt down!  My [current] understanding is that things have to be done in the right order.  A healthy self image first, then a moving away from pleasure/pain fixation.




I never thought of it that way, but it's a very valid point.




Gringotts Bank said:


> Achievement/attention is met by a shot of dopamine which feels great, but just like a casino, the system is designed to only reward us 'just enough and no more'.




Also on the 4HourWorkWeek podcast, there's an interview with Tony Robbins about achievement vs fulfillment. Well worth listening to if you're interested.


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## galumay (1 September 2016)

Klogg said:


> Sorry for the double post, but another thought on this - have you thought about playing with diet/nutrition in other ways? (other than supplements)
> 
> I listened to this and this and decided to make the complete change to a ketogenic diet.
> As it turns out, the lack of insulin spikes and intermittent fasting (I skip breakfast + lunch twice a week) really work well for me. It's also caused me to drop weight, but I was carrying a little extra anyway so no harm.
> ...




Klogg, my wife and I have been eating what is essentially a variation on a ketogenic diet, we cut most carbs out, not that we had a high carb diet, and have had fantastic results in the 9 months we have been following it. Lost heaps of weight, I am down to 81kg and my waist is under 100cm, mentally it has had a really positive impact, higher energy, better concentration and less sleepy. My wife has seen similar weight loss and also improved health with her chronic condition (Chrones). 

It was tough at first - no pasta, rice, bread or potatoes!! But I dont miss any of it now, have started having a little bit of each very occasionally now that we have stabilised - enjoy the treat, but dont miss them. 

Will have to chase down and read some Seneca now!

BTW linked with this discussion is the interesting research of the effect of delaying gratification, I will find a link to what I was reading and post it.

edit - http://jamesclear.com/delayed-gratification


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## Klogg (2 September 2016)

galumay said:


> Klogg, my wife and I have been eating what is essentially a variation on a ketogenic diet, we cut most carbs out, not that we had a high carb diet, and have had fantastic results in the 9 months we have been following it. Lost heaps of weight, I am down to 81kg and my waist is under 100cm, mentally it has had a really positive impact, higher energy, better concentration and less sleepy. My wife has seen similar weight loss and also improved health with her chronic condition (Chrones).
> 
> It was tough at first - no pasta, rice, bread or potatoes!! But I dont miss any of it now, have started having a little bit of each very occasionally now that we have stabilised - enjoy the treat, but dont miss them.




That's awesome, well done!

I do find that introducing some carbs (low Glycemic Load) is still OK, but white rice/pasta/bread and some fruits will cause huge insulin spikes and make me really hungry.

Also, I have a fear that because I'm eating so much fish, I may be consuming too much mercury. At the moment I eat a lot of smoked salmon, tuna, mackarel and sardines... do you find you have this problem?


Oh and that article is a summary of 'The Marshmallow Test'. Great book, I can't recommend it enough.
If you like "Thinking, Fast and Slow", then this is also for you.


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## galumay (2 September 2016)

Klogg said:


> That's awesome, well done!
> 
> I do find that introducing some carbs (low Glycemic Load) is still OK, but white rice/pasta/bread and some fruits will cause huge insulin spikes and make me really hungry.
> 
> ...




Thanks Klogg, yes I have seen no impact from adding back in some small amounts of carbs, for me it worked to have none for the first 6 months to really get any appetite or desire for them out of my system.

The fish is not an issue for me, we live in a remote part of tropical Australia and I catch most of what we eat and mercury is not an issue because there is no industry. I still eat plenty of meat as well though. 

(sorry GB, we have got a fair way off topic!)


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## Gringotts Bank (2 September 2016)

galumay said:


> (sorry GB, we have got a fair way off topic!)




Go for it - I want others to input success stories like yours.  Failure stories are good too - stuff that doesn't work.  

I'm using this as a bit of a diary, so much of what I write is 'froth and bubbles'.  By writing it down I find it easier to identify the useful things.  Like this app, for example.  http://www.heartrateplus.com/


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## Klogg (2 September 2016)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Go for it - I want others to input success stories like yours.  Failure stories are good too - stuff that doesn't work.
> 
> I'm using this as a bit of a diary, so much of what I write is 'froth and bubbles'.  By writing it down I find it easier to identify the useful things.  Like this app, for example.  http://www.heartrateplus.com/




I can list a few things that did/didn't work for me (I think they're all relevant, apologies if I deviate a little). Broken down by category:

*Exercise:*
Clearly this is important for overall health, including mental health... so I thought I'd start with it.
So my basic approach to this is a gym session (resistance training) 3 times a week, plus a form of cardiovascular work to increase VO2 max (HIIT sprints work well) once a week. In doing this, I've found:

- Focussing on muscular hypertrophy (growing the muscle) for aesthetic reasons, without also training a full range of motion, leaves me with poor mobility and did some damage. It's taking me time to reverse it, but it's working so far
- Increasing the number of training sessions beyond this point. It didn't necessarily leave me drained (if I ate enough), but there were clear diminishing returns
- Training to failure during resistance training. I find that training to about 50-60% of the max reps on a set and keeping it at about 5 reps per set as a general rule has worked well. It increases strength over time, whilst allowing me to train


*Meditation/Mindfulness*
This has been covered already, but basically I'm not very good at using certain techniques. GB has covered body awareness already, which I use.


*Diet*
Already covered, but in summary I find a ketogenic diet (modified Atkins, basically) alongside some intermittent fasting to be very useful


*Confidence and motivation*
I haven't found a clear solution here that I'm happy with, but what I use to date:

- Study of various philosophical texts, which I've mentioned
- Study of history, particularly the study of successful people
- Routinely reminding myself of the principles learnt from the above
- Make (somewhat) public declarations to friends/family that adds another layer of motivation when I want to achieve a particular goal (although focussing on process improvement helps, the goal comes by itself)


*Concentration/Flow:*
Focussing on this one now. I find I have issues focussing when my phone is nearby or the internet is freely available, especially if the result of the task has serious implications. What works to date:

- Limit availability to internet and turn phone on flight mode
- Work through the source of anxiety relating to the task, and attempt to remove it through reasoning (Bertrand Russell's method of continually reasoning with yourself until your subconscious essentially synchronises with this view seems to work for me)



Really interested to hear what worked for others. 
GB - great posts so far. Love it


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## Gringotts Bank (2 September 2016)

Thanks for that.  I should read more biographies of successful people.  For me, it's a balance between reading the works of those who are successful, versus those who can describe what the successful do.  Those who are very successful often lack the ability to impart their knowledge in words, so there's a bit of a trap there I reckon.

I'm using the app mentioned above to assess my level of coherence, and trading with live biofeedback.  It's pretty interesting.  I'll try to post some screenshots.


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## Gringotts Bank (3 September 2016)

The app is hard to get a screen shot of.  

As an exercise I use biofeedback to get my coherence at a high level ie. >70% average, then maintain that as I use discretion to trade the chart game.

NB. this is my first run today, not the result of multiple trials, *but *I did spend time meditating beforehand to get into the right space.




So I'm happy with that - one of my better runs.  But with no skin in the game, the main psychological factor is not present - fear of loss.  Still, I think it's good training.  One day I hope to move away from system trading to 100% discretionary trading, because I know it has more profit potential.


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## Gringotts Bank (13 December 2016)

I have a feeling microdosing might become something big.  Media everywhere are jumping on it.


http://www.smh.com.au/national/heal...-lsd-and-magic-mushrooms-20161116-gsqi74.html

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/s...g-overseas--why-not-here-20160503-gol3xr.html

Sure would be easier than an hour of meditation.


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