# Australian coins - Legal advice needed



## Lucstar (18 May 2006)

Was just wondering if someone who had some legal knowledge be able to help me out here. I know it is illegal to melt Australia coins here in Australia. However, what if someone was to send the actual, physical coin overseas, lets just say to China and melt the coin there. Would that still be against the law?


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## tech/a (18 May 2006)

*Re: Legal advice needed*

Yes I would say so but would only be enforcable in Aust Id suggest. However there are international laws and it could be  a common law respected internationally.Thats about the best legal advice this builder can come up with.
About as good as youd get from a lawyer on Truss spans.


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## sam76 (18 May 2006)

*Re: Legal advice needed*



			
				Lucstar said:
			
		

> Was just wondering if someone who had some legal knowledge be able to help me out here. I know it is illegal to melt Australia coins here in Australia. However, what if someone was to send the actual, physical coin overseas, lets just say to China and melt the coin there. Would that still be against the law?




you wouldn't be talking about this by any chance??   

MONEY makes money. A clearly bored Mike Munro, a scrip shuffler with DJ Carmichael & Co in Perth, has however come up with a very quirky opportunity for would-be metal magnates.

Munro told Full Disclosure's agent out West that the Australian 10 ¢ coin's weight in nickel and copper was more valuable than its monetary value. The coin weighs 5.65g and is made up of 25 per cent nickel and 75 per cent copper ”” commodities that have both been soaring in value over recent years.

After some complicated calculations, Munro claimed the 10 ¢ coin contains 1.41g of nickel, worth 1.5 ¢, and 4.23g of copper, worth 11.4 ¢.

"That means the total metal content of the 10 ¢ coin is 12.9 ¢ ”” a 30 per cent premium to face value," Munro says.

The only stumbling block to this get rich quick scheme is that it is illegal to melt Australian coins. The legal deterrents range from a $5000 fine to two years in prison for an individual perpetrator and $10,000 penalty for a body corporate.


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## Smurf1976 (18 May 2006)

*Re: Legal advice needed*

I assume that this is on the basis that the value of the metal content of the coins exceeds the face value?


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## Lucstar (18 May 2006)

Lol Sam! You caught me out there. 

I read the article today and wow, it was truly amazing to me.

Was trying to think of some loopholes where i can get away with it legally.

LOL! Start sucking up 10cent pieces everyone.


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## money tree (18 May 2006)

if you were smart you would buy NZ coins and melt them here


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## Smurf1976 (18 May 2006)

It's quite common to buy old US silver coins for the metal content. If silver prices rise then you sell them as metal. In a worst case if silver prices crash then the coins are still legal tender at face value. So you have a silver investment with a rock solid "floor" price below which it can not fall no matter what happens to the underlying metal price. Whether or not it is legal I don't know.


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## ctp6360 (18 May 2006)

I don't know much about the melting temperatures of metals, but say you were to melt down 10c coins how would you go about seperating the two metals? Or because of their atomic weights would they naturally rise to the bottom/top of the tank or whatever?

My initial reaction was - screw the law - do it anyway. But then I realised its going to look sus if someone is using every means available to amass 10c coins, I'm not sure how you'd even go about doing that short of asking for them at the bank?

I remember in Year 7 me and some friends decided not to eat all our easter eggs, to melt them down and turn them into a new type of chocolate bar and sell it for a profit...same concept,...it didn't work out either.


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## clowboy (18 May 2006)

I can't remember the exact mathematics but it was something like 2.5 round 50 cents coins = 1 Oz of silver.  I could get them for $4 each at the coin dealer and an Oz of silver was $15+.  50% profit seems pretty good but the setbacks were how to separate the silver + other metal (only 80% silver) and where to sell the silver to.


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## Lucstar (19 May 2006)

I've got another question here,

Is Australia actually losing money by producing our currency so inefficiently? If the RBA was to re-design our coins in terms of metal content, would there be any effect at all on our economy in terms of money?


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## grumpee boi (19 May 2006)

What about this?  Buy the old Aussie $200 coins which have an extremely high gold content.  These can be had for over $200 as more and more people realize this.  However your local bank branch hates them as they have to send them back to the mints.

As the price of gold appreciates so does the value of your coin.  At the worst, you can cash it in for $200 at the local bank branch.  It would have ideal to have started this some time ago of course.

Adam


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## Jay-684 (21 May 2006)

for anyone wanting to get into buying the gold coins, simply get in touch with the Royal Australian Mint or Perth Mint and they'll send you out qtrly or half yearly catalogues to purchase them from.

My best buy has had to have been the palladium emu $40 coins from 95-97. Approx $365 to buy, now over $1000 each.

You need to collect ALOT of 10c pieces to make the above idea worthwhile though! 100,000 10c pieces would get you a little over $3000 profit!


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## FXST01 (28 May 2006)

When i recently visited the Mint here in Canberra, theres an exhibit on the round 50c we used to have and how some people were sending the 50c to Asia to be melted down for their silver, well until the government woke up to what they were doing. But I wouldn't be surprised if something similair was still happening.


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## projack (26 March 2008)

I did a quick maths what the metal prices of the Australian coins are.
See  the attachment.


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## son of baglimit (26 March 2008)

i think customs would have an issue if trying to move more than $10k cash offshore.


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## Sprinter79 (27 March 2008)

Not to mention how heavy your baggage would be!!!


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## explod (27 March 2008)

projack said:


> I did a quick maths what the metal prices of the Australian coins are.
> See  the attachment.




Not being very good at Maths I wonder would someone be able to decipher the chart and tell roughly what the value of our current silver coins are worth in Aus today.   the 5, 10, 20 and 50.


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## projack (28 March 2008)

The last line in the chart is the price in dollars. 
For the 5c column you read 0.040744 dollars and that is = 4.0744 cents.
As you can see none of the Aussie cons worth more than face value.
See US coins below. (Nickel is the one worth more than metal value.)


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## doogie_goes_off (28 March 2008)

Rumor abounds that in the pacific nations the business people with no scruples have been changing notes for coins and sending shipping container loads to have them melted down for scrap. Consider a similar face value 20 "cent" coin that is worth half or 1/3 as much as the $AUD version, very cheap if you put 20 tons in a container less freight cost to the nearest scrap yard. Bad business minds break national rules for international gain, rude , cruel, unscrupulous, parasitic etc


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## explod (28 March 2008)

Thanks 4 the explanation Pro, thought I was onto something, just hae to spend it all now.

Cheers explod


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## trishan9390 (28 March 2008)

Haha this is hilarious. Do we have any science wizzes on the forum who would be able to confirm the feasability of melting 10c coins? Not that I plan on melting 10c coins even if it were feasible


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## So_Cynical (28 March 2008)

Nickel ”” Melting Point: 1728 K (1455  °C, 2651  °F) :burn:
Copper ”” Melting Point: 1357.77 K (1084.62  °C, 1984.32  °F)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper

Apparently there a metal melting/casting enthusiasts out there in internet land

http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/links.html

I'm gona start collecting 5 and 10 cent pieces anyway.


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## explod (31 October 2010)

So_Cynical said:


> Nickel ”” Melting Point: 1728 K (1455  °C, 2651  °F) :burn:
> Copper ”” Melting Point: 1357.77 K (1084.62  °C, 1984.32  °F)
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel
> ...




With silver, nickel and copper prices rising a fair bit of late I was wondering how your coin collecting is going there So_cynical.

The thread did encourage me into 1966 coins and some have nearly doubled in price since 2008.


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