# Customer service more or less?



## krisbarry (4 October 2005)

Personally I would rather see less customer service.  No offence to all customer service workers but I would rather do my business via machines.

* Using and ATM is great

Not really interested in lining up in a bank queue to hear some bank teller dribble on about up-selling insurance to me.

* Using a swipe card at the fuel pump

Not really interested in talking to some dopey console operator, late in the evening.

* Small Business' annoy me

Sales people in many small business jump all over you, especially in clothes stores. Why can't they just leave me to browse at my own leisure?  They make small-talk....blah, blah etc.  If they don't leave me alone, I protest by just walking out of the store.

BUT...

I would love to see more customer service when dining out and more staff at supermarket checkouts and major department stores.

What do others think?


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## malachii (4 October 2005)

Dont really care about more or less customer service people as such - just wish I could find somewhere-anywhere that would give decent service.  Customer service has gone the way of the dinosaur imo!

malachii


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## krisbarry (4 October 2005)

Good customer service does exists.  Many times I have been out and about and recieved excellent service.


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## sam76 (4 October 2005)

I wish they'd bring back/increase telephone operators. 

my gripes are;

a) being on hold for 20 minutes.
b) talking to a bloody computer!

Sam


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## krisbarry (4 October 2005)

Yes I agree, forgot to mention that.  Very frustrating waiting on hold.  Worst ones are ISP companies, up to 50 minute wait for technical support.  Not good enough


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## Julia (4 October 2005)

krisbarry said:
			
		

> Personally I would rather see less customer service.  No offence to all customer service workers but I would rather do my business via machines.
> 
> * Using and ATM is great
> 
> ...





Kris,

I couldn't disagree more.

I usually try to avoid making personal criticisms, but I can't help but feel that your attitude to "dopey sales people" etc. is symptomatic of your attitude towards your fellow citizens in general - i.e. condemnatory, judgmental and critical.

Certainly, it is absolutely frustrating to be on hold on the phone for extended periods of time and then getting no further than attempting to talk to a computerised voice and in this regard I do agree.  However, I suppose the counterview to this comment is that perhaps a company in which you have shares is increasing its profit by employing this method rather than paying a real person salary, super, holiday and sick pay etc etc, and thus your SP grows and/or you receive a larger dividend payment.

Can I just suggest you try for an exercise next time you are irritated by some salesperson "bothering you", putting yourself in their shoes.  Let's say, that assistant in a clothing store is a single mother with a few kids, her ex-partner fails to pay her child support, and she is attempting to provide for herself and her family rather than depend on Centrelink Sole Parent Pension (which you as a tax-payer fund).  She perhaps didn't have much in the way of good  education and certainly wasn't up to managing a university degree.  So she's doing one of the few things she can do and earn money.  When she gets the job her employer advises her that her continued employment is dependent on her following the company "sales rules".  These mean that she must approach every customer and attempt to ensure he/she does buy something, or at the very least feel "attended to" to the level that they will come back when ready to buy.  She probably doesn't much like doing this, feels really uncomfortable at times, but she wants to keep her job.  

If you display to her the attitude expressed in your post, you are just making her life that much harder than it is already.  Instead of being irritated with her, can't you just thank her for her interest and pleasantly say you'd like to be left alone to browse.  I'm sure she will respect your wishes.

This post has become much more lengthy than I intended.  Essentially,  all I wanted to say is that it doesn't take that much to respect the feelings of those with whom we come into contact and remember that they are just trying to make a living.  Don't let's make it harder for them.  Hell, you could even go right overboard and thank them for making your visit to the store a pleasant experience!!!

Julia


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## Smurf1976 (4 October 2005)

Customer service? WHAT service?

Best option wherever possible is do it yourself if you want it done properly.

But there are some good ones and the best service I've had anywhere was probably from iiNet when I had some technical problems. It was really a more of a Windows problem but they told me what to do over the phone anyway and sorted it all out.

Origin Energy LP Gas delivery (for home use where there's no mains gas) are pretty good for service too as long as you don't mind keying in lots of numbers over the phone when you need more gas delivered. The automated system makes a lot of sense for them though since that way they know what size cylinders you have, whether they are to be swapped for full ones or refilled on site, how many, where you are, where on the property the cylinders are etc. since it's all stored on their system and this way there's not too much that can go wrong.

Worst service I've found anywhere was a local restaurant which didn't offer so much as an appology for spilling a jug of water on my lap and objected when I decided to donate $5 of the bill to a charity collector wandering around the street rather than give it to them for their non-service. I then had to walk through the streets of Hobart (including the mall) looking as though I wet my pants so I wasn't too happy at the time.

Next worst service would have to be a certain very large telecommunications company which put me on hold for two hours when I was signing up as a new customer. Hate to think what they do to their existing customers if this is how they treat potential new ones!


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## krisbarry (5 October 2005)

Julia said:
			
		

> Kris,
> 
> I couldn't disagree more.
> 
> ...




But equally, there is no need for a sales person to jump all over you and stifle you and invade your personal space.  That I find very rude.  There are plenty of them.  Even if you mention that you are just browsing, they continue to make small talk, check on you, watch you while you walk around the store, saying things "that looks good" , draping other clothes over the change rooms wall etc etc.


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## krisbarry (5 October 2005)

Here is one example of customer service over-kill.  Went into my local hardware store just last week.  3 staff memebers crowding around the door/register.  I was looked up and down by 3 of the staff, then greeted by all three staff, then 1 followed behind me and and asked if I needed assistance, I kindly said thankyou but just browsing.  No sooner than 30 seconds had passed, then the 2nd one pops up to offer me more assistance. while I was browsing the paint counter, he offered to open the counter.  I then said again thankyou, but just browsing.  By this time I was quite frustrated, annoyed and intimidated and ended up just walking out and going elsewhere.

Even if a small business is not busy there is no need to jump over each customer than walks through the door.

There is service, then there is just down right rude in-your face service!


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## Happy (5 October 2005)

Besides being customer service personnel they double up as security officers.

After all, about $2,000,000 walks out the doors every day.


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## krisbarry (5 October 2005)

Yes very true, although I find security guards less invasive


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## bvbfan (5 October 2005)

I can't stand it when I go to an electronics shop, looking to buy some AV gear and no one serves me because I am wearing casual clothes but when I go up in a suit they serve me much quicker. Also cant stand I'll give it to you for this special today only...I'll take the quote and go elsewhere.


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## krisbarry (5 October 2005)

Yes another very vaild point, if you want service... be prepared to dress up for that shopping experience.

I dress down many times and go shopping, just so that I don't get harassed, it works a treat.

Now where are those BIG W thongs and stubbie shorts?

There they are....


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## Julia (5 October 2005)

bvbfan said:
			
		

> I can't stand it when I go to an electronics shop, looking to buy some AV gear and no one serves me because I am wearing casual clothes but when I go up in a suit they serve me much quicker. Also cant stand I'll give it to you for this special today only...I'll take the quote and go elsewhere.





This reminds me of an experience some years ago when I was due to get a new company car.  The budget available from the company allowed me my choice of any make other than BMW, Merc etc, and equated to the top of the range in Toyota, Mitsubishi, etc.

I went into a dealership on my day off wearing jeans and T-shirt.  Spent about ten minutes or more looking over the model of my choice (I'd pretty much made up my mind on this car) while the salesman watched from his office  about 10 metres away.  Eventually he sauntered over with a scornful look and said "help you?" his tone and expression indicating clearly that he thought that was most unlikely.  I replied that I was interested in this model and asked a couple of questions re seat positioning etc.  His response was:
I think this one over here might be more in your price range"  and pointed me to the "baby" in the  brand.  I had at no stage mentioned price.  He had clearly made a value judgment made on my casual appearance and the fact that I'd walked in (leaving the dog at the door) and had no apparent vehicle trade-in.  I just walked out.  Went a kilometre down the road to Toyota and purchased a car with which I was really happy for several years and got great service then and always thereafter.

I was so annoyed by this experience that I phoned the Head Office of the company and complained.  When I went by there a few times afterwards the salesman in question didn't appear to be around any more.  Perhaps he just got bored by the job and left.

I've never forgotten this experience.  It taught me a lot about not making judgments myself about other people.

Julia


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## Hanrahan (6 October 2005)

A female friend of my wife had decided to buy a Beemer so checked out the local dealer. It was her money and her car but she was in the company of her partner (who knows nothing about cars.)

In spite of being told a few times that SHE was buying the car the bloke selling it insisted in talking to the guy (who had no interest, remember). She bought her BMW but out of Brisbane. 

My personal bitch is with a cheap stereo I bought to listen to at breakfast. It has been in for repair three times, lately for over a fortnight and they said they couldn't fault it. Brought it home, switched from FM to AM and bingo! Nothing! Seems "nobody listens to AM". When I rang them this morn they said that they never test the AM band so how could they be expected to know?


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## bvbfan (6 October 2005)

I'm glad Sony lost this playstation modying thing today, hope it costs them millions.

I had a Sony tv that wouldn't display colours properly took the company 2 goes and 2 weeks to do absolutely nothing other than solder some connections then 3 months to change a board.

I urge anyone never buy a Sony, unless you want to get shafted around when problems come up, get no answer from their customer service.

Oh and when I asked for warranty to be extended for the time they had it they refused.

If I had the time, I'd have taken it up with ACCC for Trade Practices Act breaches as I see it.

You wonder why the they are struggling in Japan


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## Happy (7 October 2005)

I waited 3 months for a quote on SONY CRT TV at SONY authorised repair shop.
An argument was that some preliminary work had to be done to give accurate quote and this had to be paid for and they would only give 3 months guarantee, (TV was outside warranty already).

In a sense I understand their dilemma, but one cannot offer free quote and then wriggle around when asked for one.

End of story? SONY TV got tossed; I could not leave open chequebook and hope I will not get hurt.

Not sure if it has anything to do with SONY parent Co, could be culture?


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## bvbfan (7 October 2005)

I think they on sell the warranty stuff to an Ozzie company but they should have service standards as they are the ones that suffer when outsourcing companies they use stuff up.


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## Smurf1976 (7 October 2005)

Sony in particular are well known in the electronics servicing industry for designing products that use special "custom" IC's (integrated circuits - computer chips) that are unique to that product. And of course they don't maintain production of spares past the warranty period thus making the product unrepairable if an IC fails. And these custom IC's have a habit of being particularly prone to failure...

Various others were doing a similar trick with VCR's a few years ago whereby the power supply fails after about 4 years and in the course of failing puts excessive voltage through the rest of the machine thus effectively destroying it and preventing repair despite the original power supply fault being relatively simple to rectify.   

As for TV's in general, it's best not to leave them on standby. Switch it off at the set rather than just using the remote.


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## Smurf1976 (7 October 2005)

Julia said:
			
		

> He had clearly made a value judgment made on my casual appearance and the fact that I'd walked in (leaving the dog at the door) and had no apparent vehicle trade-in.  I just walked out.  Went a kilometre down the road to Toyota and purchased a car with which I was really happy for several years and got great service then and always thereafter.
> 
> I've never forgotten this experience.  It taught me a lot about not making judgments myself about other people.
> Julia



A friend of mine is worth a few million $ but she long ago learnt that her past work history in what she politely terms the "adult services industry" and present work as a stripper leads to all kinds of assumptions being made. 

People see a blonde haired, blue eyed 6ft tall girl with a "dumb" job and, for those who know, a worse background. And according to her their prejudice costs them an absolute fortune in business deals. "It's much easier to negotiate with people who think you are stupid. They make more mistakes that way and each one of them moves things in my favour. If you're regularly buying commercial properties or businesses then this adds up rather quickly."

Interestingly it is men, not women, who generally keep away socially. But Smurf isn't known for conservatism and over time we've become pretty good friends. After a while I found out the truth. Dumb? Certainly not. Broke? In short, no. Moral standards? They're actually pretty high in most aspects.  

Don't judge from the outside. Those who do are, in this case, losing a fortune.


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## Julia (19 September 2011)

I'm prompted to resurrect this thread after a fairly insignificant buying experience today.

I needed a new microwave.  I've been considering getting a convection microwave.

There are fewer than half a dozen electrical retailers in this town, so I went first to "The Good Guys".  Easy to believe that retail is depressed when you walk into an essentially empty store.

After I'd been looking at the various brands on display for a while a bored looking woman reluctantly ambled over, seemingly more preoccupied with her gum chewing than actually assisting my choice.  When I said I was undecided about a simple microwave versus convection microwave, she just shrugged and said "oh yeah".
I asked a couple of questions but she was clearly totally uninterested.
I left.

Went to department store where teenage boy did his best but simply knew nothing about either of the options and the models on the shelves were all white rather than the stainless steel I wanted.

OK, off to the dreaded Harvey Norman's.  It seems their persistent, irritating advertising is paying off.  They were flat out with people everywhere.  
A pleasant middle aged woman quickly came, listened to me, and came up with the available options, clearly detailing the advantages of each.  Quick sale, all very efficient.

What is your recent experience in this apparently depressed retail environment?
I'd have thought all the salespeople would be falling over themselves to be as helpful as possible, if only to protect their own jobs.


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## Ferret (19 September 2011)

JB Hi Fi and, I think, quite a few other stores these days have their sales people working on commission.  

The sales people are definately more attentive under this model, but may not always be providing the service that the customer wants or needs.  It can become a bit like car sales where the sales people try to sell the most expensive or most profitable item, rather than the one that would suit the customer best.


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## Gringotts Bank (19 September 2011)

Interesting.  People are the biggest investment a big retailer can make.

I've also noticed that about JBH feret.  They push certain products when they are told to by the boss.  Better options are not mentioned to the customer.


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## Bill M (19 September 2011)

Julia said:


> What is your recent experience in this apparently depressed retail environment?
> I'd have thought all the salespeople would be falling over themselves to be as helpful as possible, if only to protect their own jobs.




I think service in general is quite lousy here in Australia compared to overseas. I went into a Harvey Norman shop some years ago to buy a specific lounge suit that was advertised on a brochure that was letterbox dropped. Guy comes up to me after I was looking at lounge suits for about 15 minutes and asks if he can help. I pulled out the brochure and said this was dropped in my mail box today and I really want this lounge suite, where are they? Oh we don't have any in this store (only a couple of kms from me). OK, which store can I get them? You will have to call head office, I don't know sorry I can't help you. I mean that is real sh*t service.

The other day I go into Bunnings, was busy as hell, no recession in there. Was looking for a tap handle as mine broke off and only needed the tap. Was looking about for around 10 Mintutes, a nice young service assistant says "good morning sir" and she walked off, didn't offer any help. Couldn't find the tap and walked straight out, didn't want to buy anything after the lack of service. This is the question I would like any service assistant to ask, "Is there anyway I can help you Sir/Madam"? I feel as though they are sometimes trying to avoid any work.


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## buckylegs (20 September 2011)

I too have been fed up with the lack of service you get in some stores, so now when I go to pay I automaticly take 5% off the price and quote that I recieved no service so I will be paying only the Goods side of the Goods and Services Tax.


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## waimate01 (20 September 2011)

It truly is surprising so many shop-floor staff struggle with finding the sweet spot. I don't like being ignored, but likewise I don't like being shadowed. I find the best response is that when I walk in, the sales staff catches my eye, greets me, says 'if you need any help I'm just over here', then leaves me to browse. They should then hover within earshot rather then disappear out the back.

When asking for assistance, I also find its best to know the answer before you ask (or at least have a pretty good idea). Numerous times in numerous shops I'll ask "do you have xyz" and be told they don't, whereupon I quote their own catalog number to them. Doofuses.

As for the car thing, ironically I find you get better treatment the further up the food chain you go. You can walk into a Porsche dealership looking like you just came off the beach and be treated fine. They'll let you take the car out for a drive on your own. But try to take a Camry for a test drive and they'll want to talk price and colour first and then come along for the test drive. 

I refuse to use Woolies self-checkout. If I'm going to be unpaid staff for Woolies, then I want a discount on my grocery bill. People say self-checkout is faster, but my observation is that total elapsed time is usually less by letting a skilled person do it for you. Self-checkout only *seems* faster because it's keeping you distracted rather than just standing in a queue with nothing to do than look at the prodigious rear in front of you. 

Hopefully the harsh economic conditions will cause retailers to lift their game.


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## JTLP (20 September 2011)

All depends what industry we are talking...fashion/automobile/FMCG/hardware? Service is contingent on price of good / type of store etc. The more you pay...better service you should receive. I don't expect people to be falling over their feet to get me to buy a $10 DVD.

Something that really irks me is when you go into a clothing store and the store assistant basically harasses you...up in your face and looking at something on you to compliment. I wish I could say "cut the crap and just let me shop" but I usually utter some pleasantries back and go about my business.

Notable stores: Glue / General Pants / Edge.


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## Surly (21 September 2011)

It irks me that HN and friends are complaining about having to compete with online retailers but still fail to see that real service and having the product there and then for the customer see/feel/compare and to buy and walk away with is their edge.

If I have to do all of my own research beforehand and wait for an item to come to the store then I may as well just buy it online, recieve pretty much the same service, wait for the item BUT save money.

cheers
Surly


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## nomore4s (30 September 2011)

GASP email customer complaint & response.

Hahaha and retailers wonder why people choose to shop online.


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## pixel (30 September 2011)

nomore4s said:


> GASP email customer complaint & response.
> 
> Hahaha and retailers wonder why people choose to shop online.



 Gasp! indeed;

they may be fashion-forward, but their atrocious grammar ("whom" where it should be "who") proves them to be not only rude, but uneducated to the point of unintelligent.

Yes - do pass them by


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## ghotib (30 September 2011)

nomore4s said:


> GASP email customer complaint & response.
> 
> Hahaha and retailers wonder why people choose to shop online.



I'm glad someone here picked up this story. Mr Whom's crass snobbery is soooo 19th century you'd think it was deliberate, except it's too funny. 

I've been daydreaming about collecting a legion of grey haired, overweight ladies in tracksuits to invade the Gasp stores with tales of buying pretty dresses for their grand-daughters and green bags full of primary school exercises in clear writing for the staff.


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## kimcasablancas (30 September 2011)

I prefer less. I like to have good customer service when I need it, but mostly I just want to be left alone. It always feels that when I just want to look, I'm hounded by salespeople, and when I actually need something, there's no one to be found.


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## Miss Hale (30 September 2011)

kimcasablancas said:


> I prefer less. I like to have good customer service when I need it, but mostly I just want to be left alone. It always feels that when I just want to look, I'm hounded by salespeople, and when I actually need something, there's no one to be found.




Yes!  The same happens to me!  Murphy's Law of customer service I suppose.

I dislike the trend towards cashiers in supermarkets asking you about your day.  I usually reply with, "Oh, just this and that".  I have no desire to share my daily activities with a total stranger and, let's be realistic, they are not in the least bit interested.  I actually love to chat and will happily chat about the weather, a product I like, the footy etc. but what I did during the day??? That seems weird to me .  Maybe I should reply that I killed three people with a kitchen knife before walking the dog and cleaning the toilet, that might shut them up (nobody wants to talk about cleaning toilets  )


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## Julia (30 September 2011)

Maybe don't be so hard on these young people.  They're simply doing what management has told them to do and will doubtless be in line for criticism if they fail to ask customers about how their day is going.

I don't want to discuss my day with them either, but your criticism would probably be better directed to the management of the businesses concerned.


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## Miss Hale (2 October 2011)

Julia said:


> Maybe don't be so hard on these young people.  They're simply doing what management has told them to do and will doubtless be in line for criticism if they fail to ask customers about how their day is going.
> 
> I don't want to discuss my day with them either, but your criticism would probably be better directed to the management of the businesses concerned.




I'm not being harsh, I am simply commenting on a trend I don't like, on a thread about customer service.  I'm fully aware that they are directed to ask these questions which is why I always give a polite non-committal reply and hence my comment about knowing they are not really interested.  Not sure how you got the idea I was critising the staff per se


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## Bill M (2 October 2011)

Miss Hale said:


> I dislike the trend towards cashiers in supermarkets asking you about your day.




They are instructed to ask, be friendly and polite. If they don't they face disciplinary action, it is part of their job. Would you rather a cashier that turns their back to you and makes out she is cleaning the belts and till and you are forced to join a longer queue elsewhere? I know what I'd rather have, quick friendly service.


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## Tink (3 October 2011)

Yep, Bill agree, customer service is just that, would rather more than less. 

A smile, good morning, how are you costs nothing, and sometimes, they have just made someones day.


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## Logique (11 October 2011)

A bit off topic, but on occasion you do wonder at the service!

http://clicks.aweber.com/y/ct/?l=Meq8Z&m=Icgz8YqZ_g1yh1&b=UENEqEhmm1wNw31iz5XUeA
Are you doing business with a sociopath?

Sociopath test:
The following questionnaire is based on research and experiences of socialised sociopaths.  For each trait, decide if it applies to the person you suspect may be a socialised sociopath, fully (2 points), partially (1 point) or not at all (0 points).  A score of 25 or above suggests strong psychopathic tendencies. 

1) Do they have problems sustaining stable relationships, personally and in business?

2) Do they frequently manipulate others to achieve selfish goals, with no consideration of the effects on those manipulated?

3) Are they cavalier about the truth, and capable of telling lies to your face?

4) Do they have an air of self-importance, regardless of their true standing in society?

5) Have they no apparent sense of remorse, shame or guilt?

6) Is their charm superficial, and capable of being switched on to suit immediate ends?

7) Are they easily bored and demand constant stimulation?

8) Are their displays of human emotion unconvincing?

9) Do they enjoy taking risks, and acting on reckless impulse?

10) Are they quick to blame others for their mistakes?

11) As teenagers, did they resent authority, play truant and/or steal?

12) Do they have no qualms about sponging off others?

13) Are they quick to lose their temper?

14) Are they sexually promiscuous?

15) Do they have a belligerent, bullying manner?

16) Are they unrealistic about their long-term aims?

17) Do they lack any ability to empathise with others?

18) Would you regard them as essentially irresponsible?


(More commentary at the link).


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## kimcasablancas (12 October 2011)

I prefer more minimal service most of the time. I'm either out because I want to be with friends or I'm trying to find something and I already researched what I want.

Shops: I think reviewing products on my own is more effective and reliable than service people in the shop. All I want to know is where I can find the item, or if I can't find my size (in the case of clothing) if they have it or can order it. When possible, I prefer self-checkout. It's just faster.

Restaurants: I do want to get my food, and I'd like to have it without attitude, but that's about it. nothing is more annoying than when they pester you the whole meal. 

Banks: Unless it's something specific, I want to do online banking or use the ATM.


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## Bill M (14 October 2011)

And then there is the travel industry. Every year I do around 2 trips away, one overseas and maybe one local. For the last 8 years or so I have done everything online. This week I found a good quote for a overseas airfare. I wanted to buy it straight away but I was going down to the Mall so I thought I'd visit Flight Centre and get a quote.

Flight Centre, 4 staff in attendance, 3 on the phone and one with a customer. I sit down and one lady says I'll be with you in a moment. A minute later she finishes her call and we say hello to each other. I said you have a policy of nobody beating your prices is that right? Yes that's right. OK, here is my online quote, if you can beat it and do it without credit card fees I will book it with you. She checks the computer and says gee you got a really good fare and it's cheaper than ours but for you we will beat it by *$1*. I said, will you charge any credit card fees? She said yes we automatically do (it was about 1.8% I think) and that isn't negotiable but we can do it for you now. So you really won't beat it then is that right? I said. Yes we can beat it but we have to charge that credit card fee.

So I said thanks but no thanks and walked. I knew I could save $30 just by doing it online at home in my own time without any hassles. I don't like to book with travel agents face to face these days. Back in 2007 I saved 17% by booking a $30,000 holiday 12 Months in advance, the whole deal was done online. Online savings a very well worth it, particularly as face to face service isn't all that good anyway.

By the way, during the stage of my canvassing  online airfares I actually called Flight Centre for a quote, the lady on the line said "I am with a customer right now but give me your name and number and I will call you back", that was at 12.20 Monday, they never returned the call. Pretty bad customer service as far as I'm concerned.


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## Garpal Gumnut (15 October 2011)

I went in to Dick Smith ( Powerhouse, WOW ) in Domain Centre in Townsville yesterday planning to spend over $2000 on a computer system for a Gumnut. 

I waited 14 minutes, looking at computers and prices and nobody came near me, there were three people waiting to pay at the one manned service desk, at the exit. He was the only employee I saw. So I walked and spent it at JB HiFi.

Some of my old mates from the Creek could have cleared the store and nobody would have been any the wiser.

I'd be selling WOW if I still had them if I were asf members.

gg


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## Julia (5 January 2012)

At 5.30am Christmas morning I went outside to about 6cms of water through an area of the back paving, with the water merrily bubbling up from underground at a rapid rate.
After the necessary cursing, turned the water off at the meter and went in search of a plumber.

The first couple went straight to message, but the third was perfectly cheerful despite being woken up and promised to come straight away.

The burst pipe was very fortunately just outside of the paving which has pavers set in concrete and would have been difficult to take up, with the pavers no longer being available if they got smashed.
All fixed and tidied up in about half an hour.

I'd been anticipating the invoice would be substantial, given the plumber had 45 mins travelling time each way and it was such an ungodly hour on a holiday.

Couldn't believe it when the invoice arrived today:  a mere $82.
Paid it happily and added 50% as a thank you.

So not everyone is out to rip us off, even when the timing provided a good excuse to do this.


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## Knobby22 (5 January 2012)

Wow, are sure he was a real plumber??


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## Bill M (6 January 2012)

Julia said:


> I'd been anticipating the invoice would be substantial, given the plumber had 45 mins travelling time each way and it was such an ungodly hour on a holiday.
> 
> Couldn't believe it when the invoice arrived today:  a mere $82.
> Paid it happily and added 50% as a thank you.
> ...




What a nice guy (and customer for adding some Christmas cheer), I wish I could find tradies like that.


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## Logique (6 January 2012)

Julia said:


> ..I'd been anticipating the invoice would be substantial, given the plumber had 45 mins travelling time each way and it was such an ungodly hour on a holiday.
> Couldn't believe it when the invoice arrived today:  a mere $82.
> Paid it happily and added 50% as a thank you..



That's a great story. Given that $80 is a common call-out fee, you got the job done for pretty much nothing. So well done to add 50% tip.


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## Dougs Antiques (6 January 2012)

I have just read this thread from the start and I think that there are genuine concernes for customer service.
I own and run (Manage) a small to medium size business retailing Antiques & Collectables (Family owned and operated).
I believe that service isnt what it used to be, in my opinion the basics have been ignored for many years...Just a simple down to earth approach.
1. First contact is very important it should be short ,breif and freindly if the potential customer wishes to chat you will soon know.
2. let the customer know that you are there to help them if required and then let them browse to their hearts content, if they need your assistance they will ask.
3. If the customer does need assistance ,do so with a smile and be honest and down to earth and never be pretensious.
4. We are there to assist our customes....*WE NEED THEM THEY DONT NEED US!!!*
5. When the customer is exiting the shop ALWAYS say good bye in a freindly manner.
6. We do a lot of interstate sales which are internet based and EVERY customer is treated as a walk in customer would be.
7. *MOST OF ALL USE YOUR EARS AND MOUTH IN THE RATIO THAT THEY WERE GIVEN, LISTEN MORE THAN YOU TALK...PEOPLE LIKE LISTNERS NOT CHATTERBOXES.*
8. A clean and tidy shop is as important as the way that you handle your customers.
Regards


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## sptrawler (6 January 2012)

Dougs Antiques said:


> I have just read this thread from the start and I think that there are genuine concernes for customer service.
> I own and run (Manage) a small to medium size business retailing Antiques & Collectables (Family owned and operated).
> I believe that service isnt what it used to be, in my opinion the basics have been ignored for many years...Just a simple down to earth approach.
> 1. First contact is very important it should be short ,breif and freindly if the potential customer wishes to chat you will soon know.
> ...




Great write up, good guidelines.
What I would add is don't go into business in the present climate, with debt on board.
If you are selling a good product at a reasonable price and don't need to sell, to make ends meet, things wil work out fine.
The problem at the moment is 'gearing' too much debt tied to personal collateral.
Adds stress and requirement for a sale, this manifests itself as a pressure sale.
My opinion only and I really do feel sorry for retailers at the moment, most of this situation is not of their doing.


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## LostMyShirt (6 January 2012)

OP;

Totally understand what you are saying here. I also feel offended when certain sales people undertake the axiomatic "method", or angle or edge - whatever you want to call it. I feel as if my intelligence has been insulted, because many times you notice people with no tact pretty much crying out "I'm trying to play a game".

My experience with customer service, or should I say adverse experience, comes from dining at Modern restaurants and Cafe`. The over saturation with customer service - the over emphasis placed on making sure you have everything you need, tends to interrupt the meal.

"Is the food good?", "Is everything ok?", "can I take this (unfinished meal that I tend to slow down on because I speak more than I eat)" and more! I feel as if I have been invaded, yes indeed.

However, customer service is lacking in certain industries. The moving of call centers to India has generated a pseudo-customer service mechanism where, where example, ignorant people being labeled as "technicians" giving out computer advice. They run of a very specific script, and don't listen to what you are saying. Heck, I could have told them the sky is falling, and they would instruct me to restart my modem.

I will say this though, OP; don't be too hard on the young ones. They have this ideal of sales pushed onto them that is this New-school take on sales. This whole new-school ideology is killing me. It is one where they would teach you to innovate rather than create - if it's not broken, fix it anyway. When they grow, and persue sales, they realize that making a sale depends on more than your attitude or pushiness - it depends on the quality of the product and the relevant information conveyed to the buyer. Quality products sell themselves, and a fast talker usually likes to sell you crap.

I am in the film industry - I rarely have to quick talk my way into a sale. Fact is, my product is good, and hard to obtain. I don't treat my customers like idiots - they are also in the industry, and may even know more than I. Show them quality, and they will buy it from me or an ape behind a desk.

BTW, Dougs Antiques; 

"MOST OF ALL USE YOUR EARS AND MOUTH IN THE RATIO THAT THEY WERE GIVEN, LISTEN MORE THAN YOU TALK...PEOPLE LIKE LISTNERS NOT CHATTERBOXES."

There is much more wisdom in this lesson than what meets the eye. I must agree with you 100%.


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## Bill M (7 January 2012)

Wife was complaining about the sliding security screen door being too hard to slide open. I took it off and check the rollers, one was stuffed. Got the drill out, drilled out the pop rivets and took out the roller. Now this screen door is in good nick, only the roller is stuffed. Goes down to Bunnings, spent 15 Minutes trying to locate the right isle. Goes to the rollers section and they must have had 30 different rollers there. The one I needed wasn't there. Saw a staff member not far away asked him if he could order in that specific roller. When he replied I could smell alcohol on his breath. OK it was new Years Day the day before, I say nothing. He says don't worry they are all on holidays, maybe another week or two and it should be stocked up. Hmmmm, I will see, no one seems to know where I can buy this item.

Australia, I need a DORIC DR227 roller, does anyone know where I can buy this item? People in the stores aren't too sure? Customer service in some areas is lacking somewhat.


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## Wysiwyg (7 January 2012)

Bill M said:


> Australia, I need a DORIC DR227 roller, does anyone know where I can buy this item? People in the stores aren't too sure? Customer service my ar$e.




Is this it?


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## Dougs Antiques (7 January 2012)

Bill M said:


> Wife was complaining about the sliding security screen door being too hard to slide open. I took it off and check the rollers, one was stuffed. Got the drill out, drilled out the pop rivets and took out the roller. Now this screen door is in good nick, only the roller is stuffed. Goes down to Bunnings, spent 15 Minutes trying to locate the right isle. Goes to the rollers section and they must have had 30 different rollers there. The one I needed wasn't there. Saw a staff member not far away asked him if he could order in that specific roller. When he replied I could smell alcohol on his breath. OK it was new Years Day the day before, I say nothing. He says don't worry they are all on holidays, maybe another week or two and it should be stocked up. Hmmmm, I will see, no one seems to know where I can buy this item.
> 
> Australia, I need a DORIC DR227 roller, does anyone know where I can buy this item? People in the stores aren't too sure? Customer service in some areas is lacking somewhat.





http://doric.com.au/product/dr227
You can ring them direct in Sydney or order online

Regards


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## Bill M (7 January 2012)

Dougs Antiques said:


> http://doric.com.au/product/dr227
> 
> Regards




Yes I know, I checked that website, no online orders it seems (you can only enquire online) and the factory is closed until the 11th. of January. I will call them when they reopen.


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## Bill M (7 January 2012)

Wysiwyg said:


> Is this it?




Yes, exactly, can't buy online though.


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## Logique (7 January 2012)

Bill, with the ones I use, which look identical to Wysiwyg's picture, the plastic rollers are interchangeable, i.e. you can buy just the rollers, they clip straight in at the bottom. Mine are dia 32mm rollers. The assy is 45X45X16mm.

Details of the ones I buy (at the local hardware store): Cowdroy S952 spring loaded sheave assy, for bottom fix, suits TT613 aluminium track. By: H.M.Cowdroy Pty Ltd, tel: 1300 269 376, Web: www.cowdroy.com.au 

Just ask Cowdroys what their equivalent product is for Doric DR227.


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## Bill M (7 January 2012)

Logique said:


> Details of the ones I buy (at the local hardware store): Cowdroy S952 spring loaded sheave assy, for bottom fix, suits TT613 aluminium track. By: H.M.Cowdroy Pty Ltd, tel: 1300 269 376, Web: www.cowdroy.com.au
> 
> Just ask Cowdroys what their equivalent product is for Doric DR227.




I can't just take the roller out as it's a sealed unit. I will look at the Cowdroy product at another hardware store, thanks.


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## Logique (7 January 2012)

OK and don't forget the stainless steel self-tappers to re-fasten them.


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## Julia (8 January 2012)

There's a seafood supplier just outside of the town I live in which sells pretty good NZ oyster meat by the kg, for the very reasonable price of around $40Kg.

I phoned them early this afternoon to make sure they had it in stock because it's quite a drive out there.  "Yes", I was assured.  "We have plenty".

OK, drive out to where they have always been and the shop is empty, a sign on the door giving the new address which is about 40 minutes drive away.  Grr!

Get there and go to the freezer to extract said product and there is none.  Ask the assistant.  She is totally vague.  I tell her I was assured a couple of hours earlier that they had plenty.  She disappears out the back and returns shaking her head.
Not even "I'm sorry you were wrongly advised and/or had the trip for nothing".


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## awg (11 January 2012)

Quite strange really, but I have become a semi-professional complainant recently.

I have been compensated 3 seperate times in the last few weeks, following poor service from a large telco.

I had to waste so much time getting things sorted out that I demanded compensation by written complaint.

On the 3rd occasion, I stated I would go public if they did not satisfy me.

They offered me and I told them to quadruple it.

When the person demurred, I asked them to seriously reconsider whether they wished to see such negative advertising in the public domain.

After less than 2 minutes on hold, a manager approved my demand.

As they agreed, I wont detail the bad service


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## Wysiwyg (11 January 2012)

awg said:


> On the 3rd occasion, I stated I would go public if they did not satisfy me.
> 
> They offered me and I told them to quadruple it.
> 
> ...



Nothing like a successful extortion bid hey.


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## Julia (11 January 2012)

Good for you, awg.  If more of us took the trouble to do likewise, there might be a general improvement in service levels.


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## awg (11 January 2012)

Wysiwyg said:


> Nothing like a successful extortion bid hey.




beats nothing, but I was completely distracted from my idea of placing a ST trade (yesterday) on PRU, which would have been infinitely more profitable.

I must confess though, getting it settled within 24hrs was surprising.

I wish I could show the love letter I wrote them, it would give you a belly laugh, the recipients certainly seemed chastened by its contents.

btw, one must be careful to phrase statements in a way that cant be defined as blackmail or extortion.


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## awg (11 January 2012)

Julia said:


> Good for you, awg.  If more of us took the trouble to do likewise, there might be a general improvement in service levels.




I feel hollow though Julia, even though I needed to get the issue resolved asap, I lost more than I gained I reckon, and had to act furiously to get it sorted.

I felt sorry for most of the people who had to endure me, the majority tried to be helpful. I am apologetic if they do help.

Its a shame people have to act like this...there is a saying " the squeeking wheel gets the most oil "...I know from experience it is true


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## Julia (11 January 2012)

awg said:


> I feel hollow though Julia, even though I needed to get the issue resolved asap, I lost more than I gained I reckon, and had to act furiously to get it sorted.



I know what you mean.  I guess the reason more people don't follow your example is for this very reason, plus the fact that they're perhaps not assertive enough to carry it off.   I suppose it's a balance between not being taken advantage of and the expenditure of the emotional energy required to get what you want.




> I felt sorry for most of the people who had to endure me, the majority tried to be helpful. I am apologetic if they do help.



Sure.  The people in the call centres who are just doing what they're told must have a hell of a job.


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## Bill M (12 January 2012)

Bill M said:


> I need a DORIC DR227 roller, does anyone know where I can buy this item? People in the stores aren't too sure?




Just thought I'd get back to the guys on the thread who tried to help me. Today I went back to Bunnings and found another brand in stock. I bought it and fitted it and it works great, brand attached. Thanks.





Doric is still yet to get back to me.


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## Tisme (4 January 2018)

Interesting protests:

https://www.boredpanda.com/pump-you...e&tse_id=INF_ce1abfd0f05711e79160a780a1ef54df



> *You Can Now Pump The Gas Yourself In Oregon’s Rural Places, And People’s Reactions Take Stupidity To Another Level*


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## SirRumpole (4 January 2018)

Tisme said:


> Interesting protests:
> 
> https://www.boredpanda.com/pump-you...e&tse_id=INF_ce1abfd0f05711e79160a780a1ef54df




Out in the backwoods of Oregon where the pioneers felled trees and built their own houses and they can't even pump their own gas (petrol).

Is this what made America great ?


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## Tisme (4 January 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Out in the backwoods of Oregon where the pioneers felled trees and built their own houses and they can't even pump their own gas (petrol).
> 
> Is this what made America great ?


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