# How to sell large parcels of shares successfully?



## RNI (20 January 2012)

I use comsec to buy and sell my shares. I am wanting to know if there is a system I can access to sell and rebuy large parcels of shares eg 95 thousand shares at say .70cps and rebuy same amount at say 66cps in the same day.

I find my big order sometimes only sells perhaps app 7500 (eg small parcels) and then I have to wait for the price to go up to that level again to sell some more and so it goes on and on.., perhaps a week  etc, so I miss the chance to trade on the one day.

Does Comsec have any system I can use to get all of a large sell order thru when I want it (on the same day) and then rebuy back all that same large parcel of shares?

Would appreciate some help, ideas etc.....Thank you in anticipation.....RNI


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## Des P (20 January 2012)

*Re: HELP PLEASE.... How to sell big parcels of shares successfully*

I see your problem i am in the same boat but i am sure Tech/A and Boggo would have the answer's to this question
Lets see what there Answers are
I will 
Cheers
Des


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## rnr (21 January 2012)

*Re: HELP PLEASE.... How to sell big parcels of shares successfully*



RNI said:


> I use comsec to buy and sell my shares. I am wanting to know if there is a system I can access to sell and rebuy large parcels of shares eg 95 thousand shares at say .70cps and rebuy same amount at say 66cps in the same day.
> 
> I find my big order sometimes only sells perhaps app 7500 (eg small parcels) and then I have to wait for the price to go up to that level again to sell some more and so it goes on and on.., perhaps a week  etc, so I miss the chance to trade on the one day.
> 
> ...




Try trading a stock that has much higher liquidity!


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## pixel (21 January 2012)

*Re: HELP PLEASE.... How to sell big parcels of shares successfully*



RNI said:


> I use comsec to buy and sell my shares. I am wanting to know if there is a system I can access to sell and rebuy large parcels of shares eg 95 thousand shares at say .70cps and rebuy same amount at say 66cps in the same day.
> 
> I find my big order sometimes only sells perhaps app 7500 (eg small parcels) and then I have to wait for the price to go up to that level again to sell some more and so it goes on and on.., perhaps a week  etc, so I miss the chance to trade on the one day.
> 
> ...



 I don't know about Comsec - I think they issue a Contract Note with associated brokerage every day.
But there are online brokers that operate the other way: If you place an order of 100k shares at 20c and only part gets filled, the remainder is carried over till it's filled or you cancel it; however, if/when it's finally taken out, you're not slugged with another brokerage (assuming the total is still below the minimum threshold.)

I do that quite often; Westpac even let me move the remaining position up and down as I see fit.

The flip side is: If I place two different orders and they get both filled on the same day, each still attracts its own lot of brokerage. Which doesn't make a difference if each position exceeds $20,000 because then you'll be charged the usual 0.1% or whatever applies. But should you decide to buy 20,000 at 20c (= $4,000) and then place another order for another 20,000 at 21c (= $4,200) then you'll be charged the minimum brokerage ($19.95) twice.

Which is one good reason why I maintain broking accounts with Westpac AND another one that lets me make a dozen trades (same stock, same direction, same day) for one charge.


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## skyQuake (21 January 2012)

*Re: HELP PLEASE.... How to sell big parcels of shares successfully*



RNI said:


> I use comsec to buy and sell my shares. I am wanting to know if there is a system I can access to sell and rebuy large parcels of shares eg 95 thousand shares at say .70cps and rebuy same amount at say 66cps in the same day.
> 
> I find my big order sometimes only sells perhaps app 7500 (eg small parcels) and then I have to wait for the price to go up to that level again to sell some more and so it goes on and on.., perhaps a week  etc, so I miss the chance to trade on the one day.
> 
> ...




Generally there are no good answers to liquidity issues. With large orders in smaller stocks if you use commsec and show the whole order to market you'll get frontrun. Iceberg is a solution but I dont believe commsec has iceberg orders.


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## nulla nulla (21 January 2012)

RNI said:


> I use comsec to buy and sell my shares. I am wanting to know if there is a system I can access to sell and rebuy large parcels of shares eg 95 thousand shares at say .70cps and rebuy same amount at say 66cps in the same day.
> 
> I find my big order sometimes only sells perhaps app 7500 (eg small parcels) and then I have to wait for the price to go up to that level again to sell some more and so it goes on and on.., perhaps a week  etc, so I miss the chance to trade on the one day.
> 
> ...




Ring Comsec and explain to them want you want to achieve. They may be able to assist you through a gradual accumulation/disposal process rather than you having throw in a large order (which then acts as a block with other traders buying above or selling below). I believe the facility is available but it may be dependent on your account history with them.


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## Gringotts Bank (21 January 2012)

RNI, try a broker who allows you to split orders, like Trader Dealer.  They charge for a single transaction for any orders that are completed on the same day on the same stock.  This way you can avoid spooking the market with your large sell order, and instead place multiple smaller lots, one at a time, even across multiple price levels.


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## McLovin (21 January 2012)

I use Amscot and the allow orders to be bulked ie they create one contract note per day and charge brokerage on that single note.

The same as what TraderDealer offer. Amscot was the cheapest for my circumstances.


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## prawn_86 (21 January 2012)

If you are trading low liquidity stocks slippage is an issue which needs to be considered carfefully.

If you just want to sell everything you can sell 'at market' but you will only get an average price, and push the total price down as you sell your stake


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## skyQuake (21 January 2012)

I've seen ur other thread. Basically if there are no buyers you cant sell the stock. No amount of bots and algos will help.


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## RNI (21 January 2012)

Prawn

Can you elaborate further on the 'you can but at market but it will push the other down'  as I don't understand. Would I get my price ie 90cps for the whole 100 thousand shares? Not sure how it works.


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## RNI (21 January 2012)

ALSO, would it work if I sold in small parcels. Guess then would have to pay for each trade though that way.

How do the BOTS work?


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## pixel (22 January 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> If you are trading low liquidity stocks slippage is an issue which needs to be considered carfefully.
> 
> If you just want to sell everything you can sell 'at market' but you will only get an average price, and push the total price down as you sell your stake



 There is no more selling "at market".
Sometime last year, the ASX disallowed "at Market" orders. You must always state a limit, and if that is too far away from the last traded price, your order must be reviewed.


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## howardbandy (22 January 2012)

Greetings --

Being unable to exit a position quickly has been a major factor in the demise of many traders and funds.

I trade the US markets, and speak and write with reference to the US markets.  My recommendation is to trade only those issues where you can exit your complete position any day without substantially moving the price.  Preferably be able to exit in any single minute of any day.  For most individual traders and small fund managers, that means looking for issues that have very tight bid-ask spreads (1 to 2 cents is good on issues that trade for $20 to $150 per share) and minimum daily dollar volume of $100,000,000 -- somewhat lower for smaller trading positions.  There are several hundred that qualify in the US, with SPY the volume leader at consistently over $20 billion per day.  Unfortunately, there are only about ten issues listed on the Australian exchange that qualify -- Broken Hill, the national banks, etc.

Your choice is working entries and exits in illiquid markets, hoping not to get stuck, versus using liquid issues that are more efficiently priced and have less opportunity for big gains.  When trouble hits, offers to buy fall away quickly, bids drop fast, and correlations rise toward 1.00.  People sell whatever they can, not necessarily what they want to sell.

Thanks for listening,
Howard


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## RNI (26 January 2012)

Thankyou everyone for answering.

Yes it does seem I am trying to trade with illiquid stocks. I am just using the ones I own and trying to take gains every time they shoot up, then buy back when drop back a bit etc, but as said usually hopeless with  just small lots selling.

Some good suggestions tho, you have given me and I will take them up and check out.

Many thanks

RN


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