# Legal Rights Against Brokers.. If ANY At All..????



## SevenFX (17 November 2006)

Are My Eyes Deceiving Me...???

I traded AIM today and this post has very little to do with AIM, and moreso about the transaction with the broker (Commsec) that took place.

I had placed a market order using Protrader for 40k of AIM with approx 400k-500k of stock sellers were willing to sell at 0.285c.

Confirming my order reveiled my order was filled at 0.29c which wouldn't be unusual in a fast moving share.

But when I seen this transaction being the only one at .29c and many before and after at .285c I looked further and crossed refenced with with the chart, which is where they didn't line up...????

Bare in mind this is not about the .005c ($200), and more about the interigty of the system we all trade on....and if it were 100k or 200k of stock that this transaction was about, it may then well be about the money ($1000).

Anyway where the first snapshot shows my COS occured at 10.53.20 for .29c, the chart shows no transaction went through at .29c at that time.

The second snapshot shows a COS occured at 10:55:40 (not mine), the chart DOES shows the sale of .29c

Now after going through the ringer over the phone with Simon the Commsec broker, who ducked and weaved to dimiss this, and went as far as saying the chart isn't always accurate and I should go by the course of sales.

This descripencie is not the first time that strange transactions like this have occured, but because they put you through the ringer if you want to formalise any investergation (in paper writing, no emails, no phone complaint), I cant help but thinking this deturs many people from taking this ever further...unless I'm the first.  

If he was a car yard salesman, and was selling me a big truck, and said the foot brakes don't always work, and I should only go by the handbrake...I would be alarmed at this, and waking out the door. (only analigycame to mind at short notice   )

I'd be interested to hear any explaination on what I missing here, or similar experiences you may have had...as this sort of this surely cant be acceptable when were all dealing with big dollars.....also would love to see any that have been in our favour   

Are brokers regulated and investergated for this sort of thing, and has anyone had any success in resolving problem that the broker was not willing to listen to or resolve...

p.s If this is a error, I just want it rectified, and hope it doesn't happen to someone else with biiger money riding on it.

p.p.s I know they're all have thier disclaimers, but surely if an error had lost someone much much more money it would be more of an issue...

I mean this is a professional industry tool, where millions/billions of dollars are being traded...

Thanks
SevenFX

EDIT: Add snapsot No2.


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## Morgan (17 November 2006)

Interesting...
Last week I got out of MTN (waiting to get back in though).
As I don't like using 'market price', I entered my sell price as 1.245, which was what the best bid was on the Commsec depth list. 
After checking the 'executed order', I found that my shares had been sold for avergage price of 1.250    All subsequent market trades kept going through at lower than 1.25.


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## spitrader1 (17 November 2006)

SevenFX said:
			
		

> Are My Eyes Deceiving Me...???
> 
> I traded AIM today and this post has very little to do with AIM, and moreso about the transaction with the broker (Commsec) that took place.
> 
> ...



tekmann, i can for the life of me, not work this out.


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## SevenFX (17 November 2006)

So spitrader1 can you see my trade go through on your CHART, as a spike to .29c on the .285c line at 10:53:20 exactly.


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## spitrader1 (17 November 2006)

SevenFX said:
			
		

> So spitrader1 can you see my trade go through on your CHART, as a spike to .29c on the .285c line at 10:53:20 exactly.



on my chart it doesnt say the stock hits 0.29 untill 10:55


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## mit (17 November 2006)

I don't do "at market" either. If I want to go "at market" I just enter a limit order at the offer. I have found that "at market" to go awry sometimes and for seems to take longer to fill.

Could it be Comsec doing some matching locally first before it forwards it off to the ASX?

MIT


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## SevenFX (17 November 2006)

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> on my chart it doesnt say the stock hits 0.29 untill 10:55




SP1,

This is what I posted below....Tis Late in the day.   


			
				SevenFX said:
			
		

> So spitrader1 can you see my trade go through on your CHART, as a spike to .29c on the .285c line at 10:53:20 exactly.


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## SevenFX (17 November 2006)

mit said:
			
		

> I don't do "at market" either. If I want to go "at market" I just enter a limit order at the offer. I have found that "at market" to go awry sometimes and for seems to take longer to fill.
> 
> Could it be Comsec doing some matching locally first before it forwards it off to the ASX?
> 
> MIT





Yes Mit, I don't like at market either, as Commsec has taken 40secs to 2-3 minutes sometimes sitting in processing status(completely **c**d lost big $$$) but as Nizar and Tech/A have recently pointed out in another post at market SHOULD be instant, immediate, straight away...now. and not later commsec.

ANYWAY this isn't about "at market", this is about the differece between the chart and COS...


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## trader (17 November 2006)

I would be totally upset about this and want my $200.00 back, think about
changing brokers. Been dealing with Andrew West now for 2 years and never
have had any trouble with the money or site. You always get a person on the phone if you need help and they ring you straight away if you make a mistake.
eg Trying to buy shares that you are trying to sell.


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## SevenFX (18 November 2006)

trader said:
			
		

> I would be totally upset about this and want my $200.00 back, think about changing brokers. .




I been down this track b4, changing brokers (for now) is like changing houses because you don't like, or don't like what the neighbours are doing.

The new neighbours are always great and the new house on the surface always is nicer, grass greener.

It's not only time that will tell the truth and going from broker to broker setting up new accounts, transferring funds, learning their quirks, is not for me....which I can say experience tells me that.

So, can anyone confirm the below....


			
				SevenFX said:
			
		

> So spitrader1 can you see my trade go through on your CHART, as a spike to .29c on the .285c line at 10:53:20 exactly.




And do we have any legal rights as outlined lin my origional post....???

Thanks
SevenFX


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## tech/a (18 November 2006)

one of the reasons I use a full service broker.

I have someone to blame.


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## Happy (18 November 2006)

I understand that problem is that you bought at $0.29, others sold at $0.285 and this is probably that difference.

You were right at the -coal face- buyers wanted to get stock for $0.285 and sellers wanted to sell at $0.29

Buying AT MARKET  is always buying what the lowest seller offers.
In large spread between buyers and sellers this could be few cents or more.

I would be suspicious if trades were $0.28 and $0.285 and all of the sudden you had to pay $0.29 which would be smelly, in your example I can see no issue.


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## SevenFX (19 November 2006)

SevenFX said:
			
		

> I had placed a market order using Protrader for 40k of AIM with approx 400k-500k of stock *sellers were willing to sell at 0.285c.*
> 
> But when I seen this transaction being the only one at .29c and many before and after at .285c I looked further and crossed referenced with with the chart, *which is where they didn't line up...????*
> 
> ...




Happy,

I had to reread my post again, to see if I made a type... but have bolded the important sections....which I the point I'm making...

EDIT: I appreciate how "at market" and how "at limit" works and how even minipulation works at open and close....not that I do it of course.

SevenFX.


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## Happy (20 November 2006)

If at any stage there were $0.28 trades, then sellers were $0.285 and buyers $0.28, if not, chances are that there was bait, which somehow disappeared before your trade was executed.

Front running is illegal, but taking huge order off market is not, and fine line even if crossed, hard to prove.

This is why I never place -at market- order even if I want to meet the sellers price, just a precaution, after all $200 buys few lunches for any culinary taste.


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## Happy (20 November 2006)

Is Protrader streaming live feed?


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