# Private Health Insurance - Is it Worthwhile?



## Julia (18 May 2008)

Thinking about the inevitability of premiums rising yet again as a result of so many people dropping out of private cover now that they are freed from the Medicare levy, I'd be interested to know how many people do have private insurance and in what form, i.e. do you just have hospital cover, or do you have hospital plus extras?

e.g. I have both.  Have never used the hospital cover but more than get my Extras premium back on those  ancillary services like physio, dental, acupuncture etc.

I know some people who take the view that if it's an emergency they are going to end up in the public system anyway, and that's certainly true, and others who feel the premiums have just become too high, and if they need elective surgery then they will just pay to have it done privately.

I imagine most people's views about the public system are largely influenced by where they live.  If you are in a capital city where there are large teaching hospitals, then you're probably going to be fine, but in a regional centre (remember Dr Death - Jayant Patel here in Qld?) you are most unlikely to be fine.


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## Prospector (18 May 2008)

I really shouldn't complain about the premiums I pay, because we have probably extracted more over the last 30 years, than we have put in.

But, my mother was recently taken to a major public hospital, by ambulance (as elderly people are wont to do) and she received the best care, all the tests, no lengthy wait etc as a public patient (don't think she let on she had private hospital) with no out of pocket expenses.  She does live about 5 minutes away from the Hospital, so really, I do sometimes wonder, given that any health issue she may face probably won't be elective, but emergency care if she is wasting her money.  She doesn't need things like hip replacement etc etc, so for her, probably not.

Wonder how long it will take for the Hospital Funds to put in their applications for increased charges though.


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## Stan 101 (18 May 2008)

Julia, I am not part of the private health cover crowd. I am happy to pay my 1% to medicare each year. The reasons I don't have any cover is that as you mentioned, if I have an injury requiring emergency I will as you mentioned go to the public arena. If I have a more serious illness requiring surgery, I'd go overseas to have treatment and pay for it.
The other thing is I've yet to see health care cover that suits what I want. I don't want dental, rebated sport shoes, optical, physio and all the other malarky (to me). It seems people pay hiogher premiums so everyone can get discounted massages yet still have a gap payment on most things when they actually need the cover.
I really think the health cover in Australia should be a not for profit industry so all those earnings are poured back into the system and not be so heavily subsidised by the government at the expense of the public system.

I do have emergency evacuation insurance. This gives me free transport with medical care to the nearest hyperbaric chamber no matter where in the world I may be should a serious scuba incident arise.
cheers,


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## robots (19 May 2008)

hello,

i made a decision 4 years ago to save a weekly ($30) amount to an ING online,

this was to potentially cover medical expenses and income protection insurance,

the balance is slowly building up, now have funds I may look at taking a longer waiting period for income protection insurance say 120 days (although this is a total non-payment period) as the premiums are low

what gets me about PHI is they only cover the gap, so:

we will use a workmate who only a couple of weeks ago became a father
(all this in a private hospital)

anaethetist bill $1000 cold hard
medicare schedule fee: $500
PHI Paid: $100
medicare covered (80% of schedule fee $400)

out of pocket $500,

if you mid to early twenties then start pilling it away

thankyou

robots


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## Julia (19 May 2008)

robots said:


> hello,
> 
> i made a decision 4 years ago to save a weekly ($30) amount to an ING online,
> 
> ...



Sure, but isn't having insurance about more than just the cost?
It's also to do with being able to choose your doctor (obstetrician in this case).  If you rely on the public system you could end up having your baby in the corridor.


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## Superfly (20 May 2008)

Julia said:


> Sure, but isn't having insurance about more than just the cost?
> It's also to do with being able to choose your doctor (obstetrician in this case).  If you rely on the public system you could end up having your baby in the corridor.




...though I live o/s, still keep my private health in Oz... having worked years ago in a major public city hospital I thought the emergency dept was great, but the wards, I would rather be in a private hospital with a experienced doctor not an intern from India doing the rounds ( so to speak )... had my wisdom teeth out in a private hospital, so have been there.... but now would most probably have any operation in SE Asia in one of the major private hospitals, world class medical treatment here, but will still keep my oz insurance just in case...


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## theasxgorilla (20 May 2008)

Superfly said:


> ...though I live o/s, still keep my private health in Oz... having worked years ago in a major public city hospital I thought the emergency dept was great, but the wards, I would rather be in a private hospital with a experienced doctor not an intern from India doing the rounds ( so to speak )... had my wisdom teeth out in a private hospital, so have been there.... but now would most probably have any operation in SE Asia in one of the major private hospitals, world class medical treatment here, but will still keep my oz insurance just in case...




Ditto.  Have kept my Aust insurance.  No such thing as private over here really.


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## Dink (20 May 2008)

I am a doctor and I would not go anywhere without health insurance. I can afford it and therefore think I should pay for it. It is simply not worth the risk (and risk is what insurance is all about) for me not to have it.  I have complete faith in the public system to deal with emergency cases soundly but my family's health and well being is the most important thing and will spare no cost.


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## Julia (20 May 2008)

Dink said:


> I am a doctor and I would not go anywhere without health insurance. I can afford it and therefore think I should pay for it. It is simply not worth the risk (and risk is what insurance is all about) for me not to have it.  I have complete faith in the public system to deal with emergency cases soundly but my family's health and well being is the most important thing and will spare no cost.



Dink, does that confidence in the public system extend to regional hospitals in Australia regarding their emergency departments?


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## Dink (20 May 2008)

I am going to be honest... 

I work in a regional area. Unfortunately the expectations of the health care that can be provided have exceeded reality for a long time. All the powers that be have agendas other than patient care. This includes the governments, hospital administrators and the AMA. All these bodies paint a picture of a terrible public health system essentially to gain more funding and pass the buck. Not to mention media outlets which profit from the bad press. In reality we have a fantastic health system that functions very well compared with the rest of the world. 

This is not to say improvements cannot be made. It is not simply about money (we have a much better system than the US), it is not about public vs private (we have a much better system than Canada) and it is not about more strict regulation or assessment (we have a much better system than the NHS). The problem in Australia's public hospitals is morale. The doctors, nurses, allied health staff simply do not want to work there because they do not feel they can meet these high expectations. As a result more people leave the jobs and go private or simply find other occupations. We have administrators that are more concerned about numbers rather than individual patient care. 

Sorry about that rant. Back to the initial question. Care in regional hospitals will not be as good as that in metropolitan areas. It is simple not feasible that that will be the case. Regional areas simply do not have the population to sustain all medical services. Is this bad? I don't think so. I don't choose to live in a place because of the health care that can be provided there and I don't think many should. I choose the area because of the lifestyle it can provide me. The benefits of living in a regional centre compared to a city of 1 million+ people is much more important to me than having every medical service available. If this is important to you then you move to a big city and deal with the traffic, the people, the pollution etc.  It is all about perspective.


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## nioka (20 May 2008)

I'm probably in as good a position as anyone to comment. I've had plenty of experience lately. My conclusions are;

1. You need private health insurance.
2. In an emergency you will receive very good service from the public health system.

 My emergencies have been dramatic to an extent. The first was a fall from a horse in the bush. The ambulance attended, called in the helicopter and I ended up in hospital without me having any choice. I got prompt attention as a public patient. I ended up with a bill for $5000 for the helicopter which my Health fund paid. The hospital treatment was free.
 The next was an explosion on my boat. Another helicopter ride to the burns ward at the Brisbane Base hospital. Treated as a public patient with no complaints. The public system works in a case like that. The helicopter also was free as it was transport from one hospital to another.

 However there are times when it does not. As a public patient you may have to wait in a long queue for some surgery. You also cannot often choose your doctor. Doctors, like mechanics, are not all as experienced or as proficient as you would like. I have experience to prove that too. I've had a double hernia operation go wrong when I did not have a choice of surgeon and had to have another op by one of my choice to correct the problem.
I recently had prostate surgery and did a lot of research before choosing my surgeon and as a result had 100% success. I could not have done that without my insurance which also got me a private ward in a private hospital at no cost. I did not have to wait. I know a few people who had a bad result with "learner drivers" with prostate operations.
I know people in their late years waiting more than a year for hip or knee replacements. In some cases that is a big proportion of the rest of their life. They needed private health cover. 

When you are young you think you are bullet proof but there are many diseases that can strike at any age and accidents do happen. If you end up with the need for medical help then insurance will make life a lot easier and recovery faster.


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## tech/a (20 May 2008)

Firstly dont do any activities with NOIKA.

Secondly I have done very well from private health cover since 40--14 yrs.
What with Dental,Glasses,Weekly Massage,Couple of small ops (Skin/Sun related),Then of course the other half.

Gotta have it at our age Julia.
NIOKA makes very good and valid points.


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## Timmy (20 May 2008)

Dink said:


> I am going to be honest...
> 
> This is not to say improvements cannot be made. It is not simply about money (we have a much better system than the US), it is not about public vs private (we have a much better system than Canada) and it is not about more strict regulation or assessment (we have a much better system than the NHS). The problem in Australia's public hospitals is morale. The doctors, nurses, allied health staff simply do not want to work there because they do not feel they can meet these high expectations. As a result more people leave the jobs and go private or simply find other occupations. We have administrators that are more concerned about numbers rather than individual patient care.




Great post thanks Dink - great to hear an honest assessment from the 'inside' from someone without an axe to grind.  Much appreciated.


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## wildkactus (20 May 2008)

I have done the same as Robots, I self insure.
Have setup an account that is part of my private retirerment account that is for Health needs as I am only in my early thirties and move around alot.

But one thing I do have is a good travel insuance plan, this covers my transport and medical expenses from time of accident / health problem back to my home hospital. Then I pay for all expenses from my fund once at my home hospital.
I find this the best solution for my needs now it may change in the future.

I also find that if you tell the doctor / hospital that you will pay cash you get fast and good service.


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## Julia (20 May 2008)

wildkactus said:


> I
> I also find that if you tell the doctor / hospital that you will pay cash you get fast and good service.




Yes, I've heard this too.  Also that the fees are negotiable for cash.


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## Julia (20 May 2008)

Dink, thank you for description of your experience in the public system.

Given all the problems, it must be a less than rewarding workplace, as you have suggested when you comment on the low morale.

What is it about working in a public hospital that attracts you, rather than working in the private system?


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## tech/a (21 May 2008)

> Also that the fees are negotiable for cash.




Having payment immediately really helps cash flow.
The power of cash in negotiating anything shouldnt be under estimated.


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## auric (21 May 2008)

I think the debate should be do we need a private health system being partly funded by the Government.
  If you have Major Heart Attack you will end up in a public hospital 
so private is realy just window dressing i e picking your doctor and jumping the waiting list and choice,
Better totaly restructuring the Public System to a Quasi Private system that is not so Administrative heavy.


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## Dink (21 May 2008)

Public hospitals offer much to doctors. Teaching opportunities. Limited on-call time cf. being on-call 24/7 in many private practices. Case load is different as most very sick and emergency cases go publicly. This is weighed against more money and more efficiency. I will not be staying in the public system for the rest of my career. Just suits where I am at the moment.


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## Julia (21 May 2008)

Dink said:


> Public hospitals offer much to doctors. Teaching opportunities. Limited on-call time cf. being on-call 24/7 in many private practices. Case load is different as most very sick and emergency cases go publicly. This is weighed against more money and more efficiency. I will not be staying in the public system for the rest of my career. Just suits where I am at the moment.



Thanks, Dink.  Have to say, though, that I've not come across too many private doctors who make themselves available 24/7!


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## Dink (21 May 2008)

Administration of hospitals is a major problem. Unfortunately, you have incompetent people running hospitals. Here is an example. An oncologist was going to move his family to a regional centre that currently has an extremely limited oncology service. One would think administration would be everything humanly possible to lure his services. He made one important request that his partner get a job in the hospital as an allied health professional (of which there is a shortage) and this was promised. Administration "forgot" to do this and he simply decided that he could not work under such an administration and I do not blame him. So we have a person who is obviously not qualified to do her job whose incompetence impacts on 1000s of peoples lives. This is not an isolated case. My partner who is also a doctor has just left this hospital for similar reasons. No-one would know but these people made national headline news 1 or 2 years ago because of their incompetence. They were moved around in the system for a few months but ended up exactly where they were initially. I often believe these administrators work where they do because they simply could not get a job anywhere else. They are incompetent, they make mistakes, they get "audited" but they don't get fired. They are faceless people whose decisions make a huge impact on patient care even though they never come face-to-face with patients. Why does no-one complain or go to another hospital? Because nothing changes and everyone thinks everywhere is the same... which it probably is. Do things like this occur in private hospitals? No... Why? Efficiency means money. 

PS. Sorry once again for the rant. Particularly sore topic for me at the moment!!!


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## wildkactus (21 May 2008)

Julia said:


> Have to say, though, that I've not come across too many private doctors who make themselves available 24/7!




Once again its down to the dollars, My private doctor here in HK will travel all over the region to see clients, and will make trips to see you at home or in a hotel, his services are not cheap but the service is superior.

This is a trend that is starting to happen with these types of doctors, have really only seen it in America and Europe, plus a couple here in asia mostly european Expat doctors. 
How it works you pay a yearly fee to join the private client list and for this you get 24/7 response if you need it, plus you pay a fee per consultations which are longer normally about 45min to 1 hr if needed, and not much dearer then the normal fee's.

I think this will happen in OZ to, if it is already not. so if you can afford to self insure you can get the service you want when you want it. as they say cash is king and money talks.


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## robots (21 May 2008)

hello,

the next step is also the option to not be involved with medicare at all, totally self-funded, no medicare levey, no medicare surcharge levy etc

and be given tax cuts,

a leading syd academic recommended a yearly $2500 tax cut if electing out,

which means going to GP for visit you would just pay fee and thats it,

thankyou
robots


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## Julia (21 May 2008)

Dink said:


> Administration of hospitals is a major problem. Unfortunately, you have incompetent people running hospitals. Here is an example. An oncologist was going to move his family to a regional centre that currently has an extremely limited oncology service. One would think administration would be everything humanly possible to lure his services. He made one important request that his partner get a job in the hospital as an allied health professional (of which there is a shortage) and this was promised. Administration "forgot" to do this and he simply decided that he could not work under such an administration and I do not blame him. So we have a person who is obviously not qualified to do her job whose incompetence impacts on 1000s of peoples lives. This is not an isolated case. My partner who is also a doctor has just left this hospital for similar reasons. No-one would know but these people made national headline news 1 or 2 years ago because of their incompetence. They were moved around in the system for a few months but ended up exactly where they were initially. I often believe these administrators work where they do because they simply could not get a job anywhere else. They are incompetent, they make mistakes, they get "audited" but they don't get fired. They are faceless people whose decisions make a huge impact on patient care even though they never come face-to-face with patients. Why does no-one complain or go to another hospital? Because nothing changes and everyone thinks everywhere is the same... which it probably is. Do things like this occur in private hospitals? No... Why? Efficiency means money.
> 
> PS. Sorry once again for the rant. Particularly sore topic for me at the moment!!!



Yes, this is just so utterly frustrating.   Don't know which State you are in Dink, but here in Qld a couple of weeks ago a senior Emergency Dept specialist wrote an 'open letter' to the 'Sunday Mail'.  He described the chaotic conditions under which he and his colleagues were working.  He wrote anonymously.

The rather surprising upshot has been that Anna Bligh, the Premier, and the Health Minister invited him to come and talk to them in more detail. He did this.   They now say it has been extremely useful and they will continue to consult with him with respect to future planning.

Now, the cynic in me says, well wouldn't it be nice if this was actually a genuine attempt by the Qld Govt to address the huge problems in our health system, but realistically I suspect it's some fancy window dressing to yet again make it look as though they are doing something, whilst in fact (as you have described, Dink) shuffling the bureaucrats around in a fashion designed to reinforce their incompetence.

Then, of course, we have the inevitable fall out from the Federal Government changing the Medicare Levy with the result that the already overburdened public health system will collapse even further under the additional demand.

Sigh!

PS.  There was an excellent "Insight" programme last night on SBS regarding the dental problems.   Despite repeated invitations to join the discussion, the Labor Health Minister (or her representative) was notable by her absence.


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## Julia (30 December 2008)

Here's an article on the payouts by Medibank Private this year.

When the premiums continue to rise so much I seriously consider dumping the private cover and just being prepared to pay if something needs to be done.
But when I see that a single procedure cost almost $365,000, I guess I'll continue to pay every year.

Any updated views on this?

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24853124-953,00.html?referrer=email


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## gav (31 December 2008)

robots said:


> hello,
> 
> the next step is also the option to not be involved with medicare at all, totally self-funded, no medicare levey, no medicare surcharge levy etc
> 
> ...




Sounds good to me!!!

Since my recent wage increase (new job), looks like ill be paying the Medicare levy or getting private health insurance.  Havent even looked into it yet, but something I need to get around to!


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## jackson8 (31 December 2008)

Julia said:


> Here's an article on the payouts by Medibank Private this year.
> 
> When the premiums continue to rise so much I seriously consider dumping the private cover and just being prepared to pay if something needs to be done.
> But when I see that a single procedure cost almost $365,000, I guess I'll continue to pay every year.
> ...




having worked all my life and now age 48 having to stop as i need total knee replacements to both knees i wish i had health insurance as i cannot afford the 15-20 thous per knee to have it done self funded
only good thing is if i take out insurance now i can make a claim after 1 year even though it is a pre existing condition, well thats what they tell me 

doesnt help me now thou as maybe another couple of months and i wont even be able to get out of bed


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## Green08 (29 January 2009)

Wondering if anyone has changed their level of cover recently? We are at the highest bracket and extras, every year we break even on claims or above it.  I have paid 6 months ahead for my brother to have cover.

I understand it is expensive and they will more than likely be putting up the rates in March.

What I am concerned about - have mentioned it elsewhere - is lack of government money, reduced hygiene, increase in transmittable disease or contamination.

With some nurses having to pay for medicine for patients out of their own pockets - one of my friends is a nurse and does exactly that - buys Panadine Forte takes about 2 - 3 weeks for her to get reimbursed!! It's like a 3rd world country.  Read of another nurse talking about no paper towels to dry hands, hospital does not have hand dryers - first line of defence - dry them on a contaminated uniform.  One good spread of Golden Staph and off it goes.

I sliced my palm 6 cms long and 5 mm deep recently. Had a booster Tentus.  Had Hep A & B tested for booster but it came back immune. 

Are you keeping up your shots?


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## drsmith (29 January 2009)

I have private health insurance but only because it's cheaper than the medicare levy surcharge.

While private health insurers have a large captive client base due to tax incentives there will not be much incentive for them to actually provide a service for the premiums they recieve.

Health funding should be overhauled with tax removed as an incentive to take up private health cover.

We should all be entitled to basic health care paid for via income taxes as is the case now. Where private health services are used this should be funded to a scheduled level by the government as part of the basic health service with the remainder funded by the individual. Private health insurance should then be an insurance to cover the difference between the scheduled level and the overall private cost. 

There should be no tax incentives (carrot or stick) for this type of private health insurance and for overal simplicity the medicare levy should be integrated into income tax rates.


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## johenmo (29 January 2009)

Have had health insurance for 25 years.  Main reason being I don't want o wait in the public system.  It's been used a few times - including wisodm teeth removal for one of our children.

If you're critically or very ill, you'll get seen to but issues like a gallbladder (recently removed from a family member) meant quick relief. I will need joint replacement in a few years and know people who have been a list for a while.  The wisdom teeth woudl have been 12 months under teh system.

Problem is the surgeons etc who charge more than the schedule fee.  Patient pays for that.


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## tasmart (29 January 2009)

nioka said:


> My conclusions are;
> 
> 1. You need private health insurance.
> 2. In an emergency you will receive very good service from the public health system.




This is the best conclusion - but it does depend on where you live and what stage of life your are in.

I work in the health system In Hobart and the waiting periods for elective surgery in the public system are basically inhumane! As an example waiting in pain for a hip replacement for up to 9 years is crazy! On the other hand emergency treatment for life threatening conditions is not that bad.

The biggest problem is that there has been a failure of public health management - and they persist in treating staff (nurses, doctors, paramedical staff) as a cost rather than an asset. Hence there has been an ever increasing middle management, measuring lots of things mainly related to cost containment but not to real outcomes. Also considerable political interference and micro management. As a result there has been a major move of good staff into the private sector, which although driven by profit does mean there is a focus on patient care (& throughput) and with a bit of competition, and inclusion of staff in decision making, makes for  a reasonable system - especially for elective surgery. This move of staff out of the public system along with past erroneous political decision cutting nurse & doctor training has led to an increasing dependence on overseas trained doctors in the public sector. Although many of the imports may have the knowledge - the levels of technical skills, and also communication skills often leaves a lot to be desired - sometimes with very unfortunate outcomes.

But if you are young & single, only likely to damage yourself falling off horses, cliffs or crashing cars then having the public sector as a backstop is fine.

If you are older with family then private insurance becomes more of a neccessity. Self insuring is fine but the costs may be very high! Joint replacement surgery can cost you $20,000 - private hospital fees & prostheses are not cheap! At least the medical costs in hospital are a little covered by medicare but again can have high 'gaps'.

Mind you - I think income & business expenses insurance are probably more important if you are selfemployed.


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## tasmart (29 January 2009)

Dink said:


> Administration of hospitals is a major problem. Unfortunately, you have incompetent people running hospitals.
> 
> PS. Sorry once again for the rant. Particularly sore topic for me at the moment!!!




I think a lot of us who work in the health system have the same feelings!

What amazes me is how bad it has become and they continue to poor money into the failing system (Australian today):

_"Mr Rees, who is faces crises of his own, will ask the Prime Minister for a $2.5 billion bailout of the struggling NSW public hospital system. "_

Sadly the effect on the future calibre of health staff is incalculable (the majority of whom are trained in the publice sector)! We allready see the 'work to rules' and mercenary nature of younger staff. And with the flood of medical students now in place - without any govt committment to provide an increase in actual hospital training positions - the system is likely to become even more chaotic!


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## Green08 (29 January 2009)

My brother who works in construction and drives heavy vehicles has always worried me.  

I put him on the second basic one (his xmas present).  I asked about hip and knee replacement in case he is in an accident.  He is covered for his knees and hips (which may need replacing or removing!) 

In a normal replacement - he is not.  

My daugther grinds her teeth at night, had a plate made $450 I received $380back.  Her teeth are worth more than that to fix.   Cost of implants $4 - 5k's each plus the major discomfort - pain after. Yes could have gone to a cheaper dentist but she is comfortable with ours.  

If you are a young family you need to think ahead of issues which children face.  I have 2, one needed an expanding plate and braces. As I had had private cover for @ 20 years before most of the cost was covered - $k's

There is nothing worse than a child suffering with dental problems and not being able to have it attended to reasonably fast.  

Know of two families where the children have developed adult teeth they are looking at $65k's up in implants.

In some rare cases the government will pay for it at Westmead Children's Hospital, linked to certain growth diseases. Then some kids just don't develop adult teeth.

Yes our Doctors and fellow collegues are worth it. To pay for their study fees, insurance premiums etc but one thing you can't buy is bedside manner and genuine care.


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## grace (29 January 2009)

We have been in private health cover for over 20 years, highest level of everything.  Young family with four young children.

The only thing about living in the bush is, if you go to hospital, there is only one hospital, and it is of course public.  Only in rare cases do we get a private room (when we are really sick and get airlifted out to the city).

I spent 3 weeks in hospital once in a private room.  I think those 3 weeks were equivalent to 10 years of family premiums alone.  

By the time the six of us go to our routine 6 monthly preventative dentist visit, the gross fee is about $1200 - $1400, which is twice a year.  We get most of that back.

It is well worth it as there are six of us.


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## adobee (30 January 2009)

Manchester unity recently paid out all of its members.. I was surprised to learn the cheque I received from the was not dated an therefore was returned ... I wonder how much this hiccup has cost them in processing fees, reissuing and posting new cheques !


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## Happy (30 January 2009)

For all those who get -super value- out of any system where there is one pot of money including insurance, there must be some that pay and get little out.

Insurance Co is not a charity so it looks like this -

Premiums – expenses to run (including super for CEO and reinsurance) – payouts – profit = 0


If only multi-child families with massive medical expenses used private insurance fund, premiums would reflect expenditure according to above equation.

In other words, some will not get value; just peace of mind that there might be enough in a pot for them should one day they need it.


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## Green08 (2 February 2009)

Manchester Unity are great! I received a lovely surprise as I've been with them for 15 years at the top level.  Moved over from HCF now back under their 'umbrella arrangement'.

In the country here but should I need any surgery other than emergency I would go to Armidale or North Shore Private.  

Had a major surgery at North Shore Private was in for total 20 days in a Private room the bill for surgery theatre, room etc was over $20k I would not have had this operation done in the public system. All the staff were great and they catered for my allergy diet with great food!!


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## drsmith (19 March 2010)

Got the annual premium rise statement from Medibank Private today. Premium up 10% and services reduced. 

That's to be expected when the health insurer knows they don't have to actually provide any service as a cost below the tax incentives.

Oh the pain! The pain!


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## Julia (19 March 2010)

drsmith said:


> That's to be expected when the health insurer knows they don't have to actually provide any service as a cost below the tax incentives.



Sorry if I'm being dense, but I don't know what you mean by the above.
Could you put it differently?


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## drsmith (19 March 2010)

Assume the medicare levy surcharge for a taxpayer is $X. The health insurer then knows that for an annual premium below $X that the taxpayer will pay for health insurance (regardless of the service privided) to avoid the surcharge.


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## Happy (20 March 2010)

I would be happy if some people were excluded from health cover.

Those who do not look after their health and then have medical procedures like bypass surgery, or lap-band surgery, or somebody who drives 200 k an hour and then needs 24/7 care.

(Suspect this view will not be very popular)


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## gooner (20 March 2010)

Interesting thread.

I took out private health cover when the Government bought in the 1% surcharge for family income over $100,000 if you did not have private health cover.  We actually saved money - our private insurance premium was less than the surcharge would be. And that was before claiming dental, optical etc.  Oh and it came it very useful for the three kids, particularly with the medicare safety net which meant private obstetrician, private room etc - did the Government really mean to fund us middle class parents to have our kids in fancy private hospitals?

Having been unemployed for the last 17 months though, the question of whether I should keep up private health cover is close to my heart (no pun intended).  Sure I get some optical and dental and might be useful if the kids need orthodontics in 8-10 years time, but the big issue as I understand it is elective surgery.  Emergencies do not matter - you get the same treatment public or private (if my assumption is wrong, happy to be corrected).  If I need a knee reconstruction, my understanding is that I can go straight into private, pay a gap and get it done. If I go public, a long waiting list and doctors less likely to recommend, although it is free.  Again if I am wrong, happy to be corrected......


----------



## Julia (20 March 2010)

Happy said:


> I would be happy if some people were excluded from health cover.
> 
> Those who do not look after their health and then have medical procedures like bypass surgery, or lap-band surgery, or somebody who drives 200 k an hour and then needs 24/7 care.
> 
> (Suspect this view will not be very popular)



On the contrary, Happy, I think most of us would have a lot of sympathy with that view.

The problem is that where would it stop?   You say "those who do not look after their health".  How would you define this, then how would you judge how well any one person had looked after their health?
It would really be impossible to manage such a scheme with any fairness.


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## chops_a_must (21 March 2010)

gooner said:


> Emergencies do not matter - you get the same treatment public or private (if my assumption is wrong, happy to be corrected).  If I need a knee reconstruction, my understanding is that I can go straight into private, pay a gap and get it done. If I go public, a long waiting list and doctors less likely to recommend, although it is free.  Again if I am wrong, happy to be corrected......




Nah, you have to pay upfront, not just the gap. It's in the several thousands of dollars.

I'm waiting for a knee reconstruction on the public system, currently. I'm category 2 or something, which means not longer than 90 days wait, but more likely about 6 months.

In retrospect it was very stupid, and lazy, to be playing competitive sport without private health.


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## Naked shorts (21 March 2010)

Julia Goolia


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## WaveSurfer (21 March 2010)

gooner said:


> ...Emergencies do not matter - you get the same treatment public or private (if my assumption is wrong, happy to be corrected). ...




My wife is the head doc in a public ED. Because she earns a bit, we have to have insurance or Uncle Sam hammers us.

From the stories I have heard from my wife, you want private health cover. I'm not going to announce any finer details on a public board, but I have been utterly disgusted countless times by some of her stories.... Most public systems are at the brink of collapse. The last thing you want is to be treated by some overseas doc, that can't speak a work of English and has 100 other patients to attend to.

Gooner, you're right there - in the ED triage only though. It's the post care that matters. You really don't want some intern butchering you at 3am in the morning if you've been in a car crash and need your ruptured spleen removed.

Julia, private doctors/surgeons etc.. are on call 24/7. Most private hospitals also have ED's

I see ours a viable. 4 free dentals a year. Free chiropractic. Better than getting stooped by Uncle Sam.


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## jonojpsg (21 March 2010)

chops_a_must said:


> Nah, you have to pay upfront, not just the gap. It's in the several thousands of dollars.
> 
> I'm waiting for a knee reconstruction on the public system, currently. I'm category 2 or something, which means not longer than 90 days wait, but more likely about 6 months.
> 
> In retrospect it was very stupid, and lazy, to be playing competitive sport without private health.




Indeed chops!  We are currently considering dumping our PI and putting the money aside in an account, as we have finished having kids, all of us are (thankfully!) fit and healthy, and I am not playing any contact sport (apart from stacking my bike every now and then).  

We figure at $3k a year into a term deposit at 6%, minus a few hundred for our dental every couple of years, we only need to make it through three-five years without needing any major stays in hospital to get to a safe self funding level.  Checked with the local private hospital and a knee recon costs around $15k.

Agreed that there are certainly issues with quality of care in some emergency depts and hospitals in general - have heard some scary stories about mistakes made in hospitals/surgery etc.  but surely they would still happen in private hospitals too?


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## Julia (21 March 2010)

WaveSurfer said:


> . Most public systems are at the brink of collapse. The last thing you want is to be treated by some overseas doc, that can't speak a work of English and has 100 other patients to attend to.



Exactly.  I once had the unpleasant experience of being in a regional hospital ED and being initially seen by an intern who looked about 15 and had very limited English.   He seemed to have as much difficulty understanding me as I did him.  The worry really started when he disappeared and then returned with a copy of "Diagnostic Information for Students"!  At that stage I asked the nurse to find someone of at least Registrar status.  



> Julia, private doctors/surgeons etc.. are on call 24/7. Most private hospitals also have ED's



Thanks for that, Wavesurfer.  Does this apply in Qld regional hospitals or just in the cities?


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## WaveSurfer (21 March 2010)

Julia said:


> Exactly.  I once had the unpleasant experience of being in a regional hospital ED and being initially seen by an intern who looked about 15 and had very limited English.   He seemed to have as much difficulty understanding me as I did him.  The worry really started when he disappeared and then returned with a copy of "Diagnostic Information for Students"!  At that stage I asked the nurse to find someone of at least Registrar status.
> 
> 
> Thanks for that, Wavesurfer.  Does this apply in Qld regional hospitals or just in the cities?




Unpleasant indeed 

You'd be shocked from the stories I have heard from my wife. Including deaths because of exactly what you mentioned above. Miscommunication in the hospital is not a good thing.

I believe it applies Australia wide. My wife says at least for VIC, NSW and QLD. It does depend on the hospital though and whether your town has a private hospital (of course ). They have become more popular in the past few years. I know of a couple around here (Gold Coast area) and all private hospitals on the Sunny Coast have one (except Noosa I'm told).

NSW is (or at least was) a bit behind the times, but VIC has an extensive list too I believe.

If you ever have to go to a public hospital in an emergency, make sure you tell the Ambo's (if applicable) and/or the Nurse that you have health cover and you want the best doc there is 

Of course this is not feasible if you live way out yonda (i.e. in Bourke) where it's likely that only public services are available.

Don't underestimate bush Nurses either (Nurse Practitioners). They can be more competent than a city doc.


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## Logique (10 February 2012)

One of the worst pieces of public policy in living memory. An electoral winner for the Coalition if they promise to reverse this.  

If you choose to remain within private health insurance, expect your premium to rise in the order of 10%.  Alternatively you could go and line up in the ever lengthening queue at the public hospital, waiting for an ever diminishing number of public system doctors. 



> Cover for surplus as health reform rescued
> Sue Dunlevy From: The Australian February 10, 2012
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...h-reform-rescued/story-fn59niix-1226267240902
> 
> ...


----------



## sptrawler (10 February 2012)

Another bit of labor spin, they say it will only affect the 'rich'. When most are saying it will affect 2,000,000 workers.
That's nearly 20% of the workforce.

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/6202.0

This will cause private health cover cost to skyrocket, just another tax.
Well done labor.
What is Julias saying "We will get the budget back to surplus, even if it kills you". LOL,LOL


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## prawn_86 (10 February 2012)

I'm right on the borderline now with our health insurance as to making it worthwhile, as we dont claim a lot of extras etc, so the cost of the medicare levy vs the cost of private health is touch and go from a financial perspective.

If this does go through i'll seriously consider dropping my private health.

So far since labour has come in we have had:
Mining Tax
Flood Tax
Carbon Tax
Private Health Tax
Pink batts/school halls rip offs

Plus:
$900 bonus
Aplogising to Stolen Generation
NBN
Signing Kyoto


Doesnt seem to stack up to me...


----------



## Julia (10 February 2012)

Prawn, if you drop out, don't the premiums if you decide to rejoin later come in at a higher level than if you'd stayed insured?  I might be wrong but thought that was the case.

This is another bit of rubbish legislation which on the surface looks sensible, e.g. we have Tanya Plibersek saying she 'doesn't want parliament house cleaners subsidising her health insurance".  Sounds all very nice and egalitarian, but Labor are not considering the increased premiums which will affect the low income people they are supposed to be so worried about as the insurance companies make up the effect of the diminished customer base.

Then all those people who would have used their private cover will be an additional burden on the already ailing public system to the detriment of everyone, the medical staff included.

Another bad mark to those Independents who are being short sighted enough to support this legislation.


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## McLovin (10 February 2012)

Julia said:


> Prawn, if you drop out, don't the premiums if you decide to rejoin later come in at a higher level than if you'd stayed insured?  I might be wrong but thought that was the case.




I think that only happens once you hit 30.

The government should be doing everything it can to get people into private cover. All those baby boomers are going to cost a lot to taxpayers in a few years to keep them living into their 80's and 90's.

Things could be worse.


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## prawn_86 (10 February 2012)

McLovin said:


> I think that only happens once you hit 30.




Correct.

My premiums will not rise based on age for another 5 years, so if this goes through i will need to re-assess if the tax break is worth having private health


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## McLovin (10 February 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> Correct.
> 
> My premiums will not rise based on age for another 5 years, so if this goes through i will need to re-assess if the tax break is worth having private health




I've only been to hospital for surgery once so I have no idea what the public system is like but private does seem worth it. I saw a specialist and was in being operated on 4 days later. In the public system I would have a wait of ~6-12 months.

I did spend 5 days in a Hungarian hospital. I learnt the value of travel insurance; they were charging US$5k/day and you had to pay upfront and claim off your insurer.


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## Garpal Gumnut (10 February 2012)

The ALP Left and the Green Socialists have won out again.

They screw the workers and increase the size of the public health service which is proven to be inefficient at delivering health outcomes.

What a waste of three years.

What damage to future generations.

gg


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## Garpal Gumnut (10 February 2012)

The poll questions don't indicate agreement or not with the government and the Greens proposed changes.

Better questions would be

1. I will keep my private insurance under the proposed changes.

2. I will abandon my private insurance and rely on the public system.

gg


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## tech/a (10 February 2012)

At my age we will definitely keep our Private health.
Personally I think it represents fantastic value.
I claim back at least 60% through Chiro/Optometry/Massage/Dental a year.

Plus I have in the background full cover for emergencies.
This was bought home clearly last year when our good friend Kathy died of Cancer after a 2 yr struggle. She had canceled her private health 2 mths before diagnosis!!

I remember her frustration as she was being treated by Foreign doctors whom she could not understand. Their ability or willingness to answer questions basically non existent.
Once told there was nothing they could do for her she was basically ignored!!!

My wife had/has a benign tumor in her liver. While we didn't know that it was benign initially the level of service was far better in the private sector. As you can imagine very stressful---more evidently for me than Princess---who thought she was fine from the beginning. The whole diagnostic process was completed in 3 weeks.
Including the Xmas break where the specialist spent in Hongkong.

Youll be glad you have it if you ever need it.
So if you can afford it make it a priority.

If youve ever flown Business class over cattle class youll get the idea!


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## Liar's Poker (10 February 2012)

tech/a said:


> At my age we will definitely keep our Private health.
> Personally I think it represents fantastic value.
> I claim back at least 60% through Chiro/Optometry/Massage/Dental a year.
> 
> ...




Here, here!


----------



## Logique (13 February 2012)

Logique said:


> One of the worst pieces of public policy in living memory. An electoral winner for the Coalition if they promise to reverse this..



As was highlighted in parliament last week, it is yet another broken promise. 

Then Health Minister Nicola Roxon said in 2007, that Labor wanted to make it 'crystal clear' that there would be no changes to the private health insurance rebate arrangements.


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## Smurf1976 (13 February 2012)

tech/a said:


> Youll be glad you have it if you ever need it.
> So if you can afford it make it a priority.
> 
> If youve ever flown Business class over cattle class youll get the idea!



I have house and contents insurance. I've never made a claim and hopefully never will, but I'll keep paying the premiums "just in case". 

I also have car insurance and I've made two claims, neither of which were avoidable or my fault. One for a tree falling across the bonnet and the other because a painter accidentally splashed paint all over it whilst the car was parked on a public street. Now, I could afford to have paid both of those myself that is true. But what if I do end up stuck on a level crossing and it does cause a train to derail? Or what if I really do end up running into someone's brand new Mercedes? I'll keep paying for insurance.

Fire alarms. Another thing I have but have never needed and hopefully never will. But I won't be getting rid of them.

Cable PI. Another safety device that I've never needed but someday it could save me. So I'll leave it plugged in "just in case".

I'm a member of the RACT (NRMA, RAC, RAA - same thing depends what state you are in). I've called them twice, both for minor things, and that proves the value of membership.

And I'll be keeping my health insurance too. I've never made any sort of claim, actually I don't even know how to go about claiming, but you never know what's around the corner. I've heard more than enough public hospital horror stories to know that I'll be keeping my health insurance.

I will, however, fly cattle class. We're all on the same plane if it falls out of the sky and I just don't see the extra cost of business as being worthwhile. Others will disagree of course and that's fine. For the same reason I don't stay in expensive hotels - though I ended up booking a 4.5 star room for my next trip simply because it was actually cheaper than most of the 3 star hotels were offering.


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## IFocus (13 February 2012)

Logique said:


> As was highlighted in parliament last week, it is yet another broken promise.
> 
> Then Health Minister Nicola Roxon said in 2007, that Labor wanted to make it 'crystal clear' that there would be no changes to the private health insurance rebate arrangements.




On the Insiders it was said that it was Labors deal they took to a election.......isn't it essentially middle class welfare? 

BTW no research shows it affects numbers for private cover.


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## drsmith (13 February 2012)

How can it not affect numbers for private cover ?

If the nett cost is increased, some will pull the pin. That's just simple logic.


----------



## sptrawler (13 February 2012)

Well an elderly SF retiree I worked with, doesn't have private cover. 
The principle he works on is, if it's life threatening he will be covered by medicare.
If it's elective, he had a hernia repaired recently, he just pays the surgeon.


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## Logique (14 February 2012)

IFocus said:


> On the Insiders it was said that it was Labors deal they took to a election.......isn't it essentially middle class welfare?
> 
> BTW no research shows it affects numbers for private cover.



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...-1226267240902
"..Health insurers have predicted 1.6 million health fund members would quit their health cover over the next five years if the means test goes ahead. Mr Davis told state parliament yesterday if tens of thousands of Victorians dropped or reduced their cover because of the means test, "there would be a significant impact on the public health system".

As for the _Insiders_, that bastion of balanced commentary, either they are wrong or the Coalition is. Also I'd take the word of the the health insurers over that of the current Labor-Greens leadership.

Rich folks are on the hit list, it's in Labor's DNA. But rich folks pay tax, a lot of it. We must look past the Labor spin - the real subsidy flows in the opposite direction, rich folks participating in health insurance is what keeps premiums lower for the rest.

It's struggling families who'll cop it in the neck, as premiums rise, and they will.   If the govt gets away with this, how long until Medicare is means tested?


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## Julia (14 February 2012)

sptrawler said:


> Well an elderly SF retiree I worked with, doesn't have private cover.
> The principle he works on is, if it's life threatening he will be covered by medicare.
> If it's elective, he had a hernia repaired recently, he just pays the surgeon.



That seems so sensible doesn't it and it's an approach many private fund members have considered.  Until you hear about some procedures which cost many hundreds of thousands.  Then $1400 p.a. as a premium seems OK.



Logique said:


> Rich folks are on the hit list, it's in Labor's DNA. But rich folks pay tax, a lot of it. We must look past the Labor spin - the real subsidy flows in the opposite direction, rich folks participating in health insurance is what keeps premiums lower for the rest.
> 
> It's struggling families who'll cop it in the neck, as premiums rise, and they will.




  My instinct is to agree but on the other hand, in reality will most of the people who really believe in private cover drop it without the 30% off?  I've been poor and went without other stuff to keep the private insurance.


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## Logique (14 February 2012)

Julia said:


> ..My instinct is to agree but on the other hand, in reality will most of the people who really believe in private cover drop it without the 30% off?  I've been poor and went without other stuff to keep the private insurance.



Again I trust the private funds, who know their market best. 

Mind you, as the public health sector descends into chaos, it would be a big risk to abandon your private policy. If you're in pain, there's no real choice between being on long waiting list at the public hospital, or activating your private insurance and going straight into the private hospital, with a surgeon of your choice.

Some may think this government of pink batts, the BER, solar bonus schemes, cash for clunkers and burgeoning national debt will get it right on health funding, however I couldn't possibly comment.


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## IFocus (14 February 2012)

drsmith said:


> How can it not affect numbers for private cover ?
> 
> If the nett cost is increased, some will pull the pin. That's just simple logic.




The most effective method is not subsides that the health funds pocket its the penalties that are imposed if you do not belong to a private fund.

Again are we not talking about middle class welfare?


----------



## Julia (14 February 2012)

IFocus said:


> The most effective method is not subsides that the health funds pocket its the penalties that are imposed if you do not belong to a private fund.
> 
> Again are we not talking about middle class welfare?



Does anyone know if these penalties are changed at all in the proposed new legislation?


----------



## drsmith (14 February 2012)

IFocus said:


> The most effective method is not subsides that the health funds pocket its the penalties that are imposed if you do not belong to a private fund.
> 
> Again are we not talking about middle class welfare?



What we are seeing here is much simpler than welfare/tax reform. It's just wealth redistribution. 

Another means test which further complicates the tax transfer system, increases EMTR's and subsequently encourages more people into income tax minimisation through schemes such as negative gearing of real estate.


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## drsmith (14 February 2012)

Julia said:


> Does anyone know if these penalties are changed at all in the proposed new legislation?






> The money for dental care will be funded by an increase in the Medicare Levy surcharge for people on higher wages who do not hold private hospital cover.




http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-02-14/oakeshott-backs-rebate-means-test/3830012

The Greens are against private health alltogether.



> the public health system is the best way to deliver health services.






> abolish the private health insurance rebate and redirect funds to the public health system, including public hospitals.




http://greens.org.au/policies/care-for-people/health

They obviously decided not to insist on the following, but their objective is clear.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...to-axe-medicare-surcharge-20120212-1szt7.html


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## Logique (15 February 2012)

IFocus said:


> ...Again are we not talking about middle class welfare?



I think you meant 18 weeks (going on 6 months) paid maternity leave, and subsidized childcare. Anti-middle class welfare crusaders can demonstrate their credentials by speaking up there.

By contrast the present health system has a place for everyone according to their means, and is finely tuned for balance between public and private health provision. The rich are encouraged to subsidize the poor by participating in private insurance. This is under opportunistic attack for reasons of ideology, class warfare, and the unofficial re-elect Julia Gillard fund, otherwise known as the promised budget surplus.

How long will the queues at public hospitals need to grow to satisfy the Greens anti-private health inclinations? How many must wait in pain for operations?


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## Logique (15 February 2012)

drsmith said:


> What we are seeing here is much simpler than welfare/tax reform. It's just wealth redistribution.
> Another means test which further complicates the tax transfer system, increases EMTR's and subsequently encourages more people into income tax minimisation through schemes such as negative gearing of real estate.



Wealth redistribution, yes, but a blunt instrument that penalizes the (should be) redistributees.


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## Calliope (15 February 2012)

Logique said:


> I think you meant 18 weeks (going on 6 months) paid maternity leave, and subsidized childcare. Anti-middle class welfare crusaders can demonstrate their credentials by speaking up there.




..and the baby bonus. They are carrots to entice young women to have babies they don't want or need. In this modern age of personal choice, with cheap and efficient contraception, we don't need children to till the fields or nurture us in our old age.

There are no good reasons for people to have children, so they have to be enticed to have them for the State. I think it was Costello who said "have one for your country."


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## Miner (15 February 2012)

Yes I believe it is very much worthwhile depending on where you are.

In Australia it is awesome. I have had my eye operation done in early Dec in Australia. It cost only $125 for the excess at Lion's Eye Instt.  Thanks to Geelong Medical Health Fund, Awesome. I wanted to get it done in Canada privately. Guess what the quote was $10000  and that too the doctor (specialist) was not available for an appointment for 2 months. I came for Christmas to Perth and got it done. No worry,

If you are in USA, no doctor would touch you unless you have a private insurance. I went for an eye examination (prior to my operation). I have had a top insurance cover world wide as an expat. Doctor said $65. Then started building blocks. Eye drop for dialation costed another $50. Refractionaist $75 and ultimately he charged $375. Thank God the medical insurance paid for it. 

In Canada the public health system is very good and cheap. Only IF , you have to wait for your coffin to be made. Same in UK under National Health Service. No private insurance is  as good as NHS in UK, But once again WAIT .


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## Logique (15 February 2012)

Numbers from: http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/

This is Tanya Pliberseks 'workers subsidizing millionaires'. Truth is, it's the other way round:

- Someone earning $50k pays $5400 tax including Medicare Levy.

- Someone earning $250k pays $89k tax including Medicare Levy, and might (formerly) have received back $1500 in insurance rebate. So paying 16.6 times more tax, despite only 5 times as much income. These people's taxes are already funding the public system. By paying for private insurance, they are effectively paying twice for health.

- a millionaire appears to be a single earning > $83k, or family earning > $166k


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## Calliope (15 February 2012)

Will Abbott ever stop making these stupid and unnecessary pledges?:headshake  Pledges that one day he will have to renege on and be on a par with Juliar. He should have waited to see its effects on the health industry.


> TONY Abbott has pledged to axe Labor's means test on the 30 per cent private health insurance rebate if he wins government, adding $2.4 billion to his budget savings task.




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...get-savings-task/story-fn59nokw-1226271609275


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## prawn_86 (15 February 2012)

Logique said:


> - a millionaire appears to be a single earning > $83k, or family earning > $166k




Yes, we are a 'DINK' couple and just one of our wages nearly covers the 'family' amount. And yet here we are having to pay *even more* tax just so the government can waste it on school halls, pink bats, carbon sequestation, car industry bailouts etc etc

When is a World government going to step up and utilise the Internet to make decisions via proper democracy?


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## Calliope (15 February 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> And yet here we are having to pay *even more* tax just so the government can waste it on school halls, pink bats, carbon sequestation, car industry bailouts etc etc




The "rust bucket" industry illustrates how hard-earned taxes are wasted.:rolleyes



> Let's face it, the Australian car industry has had many more lives than the average cat. First, there were those years of resistance to the removal of quotas and the cuts to tariffs. Then the hands shot out for transitional assistance -- read, enormous sums of taxpayer dollars.* The budgetary assistance is currently running at $160,000 per worker per year, with total protection amounting to an average of $7000 per car.*




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...ucket-industries/story-fnbkvnk7-1226270122823


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## Smurf1976 (15 February 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> YAnd yet here we are having to pay *even more* tax just so the government can waste it on school halls, pink bats, carbon sequestation, car industry bailouts etc etc



School halls - blatant propping up of the building industry.

Pink batts and carbon sequestration - an outright fraud along with every other carbon-related use of taxpayer funds. Ignoring the "does CO2 cause climate change" argument, it is a fact that we've spent a fortune of my taxes on the whole CO2 issue and emissions have gone up rather than down. That's clearly a dud.

Car industry bailouts - arguably the only one that is of any real benefit. A lot of other countries prop up their automotive industries in various ways, so it's not unreasonable to expect Australia to do likewise. The only place you'll find a "level playing field" is in an economics textbook - it just doesn't happen in the real world, not even within Australia and certainly not between countries. 

As for the health issue, in all seriousness why don't we simply put a tax on unhealthy products and services? Things like junk food are an obvious source of potential revenue. Tax it and put the money straight into hospitals, and by that I mean directly to the hospitals and not to some "health department" bureaucracy, and that ought to fix the problems.


----------



## Julia (15 February 2012)

Calliope said:


> Will Abbott ever stop making these stupid and unnecessary pledges?:headshake  Pledges that one day he will have to renege on and be on a par with Juliar. He should have waited to see its effects on the health industry.



Agree that he should pull his head in re the unnecessary pledges and instead, as mentioned yesterday, say he can't make a valid response until he sees what he inherits in the books from the Labor government.

In his defence, however, I heard him interviewed by Ray Hadley today when the question was asked "will you reinstate the full rebate if you are elected?"

He umm'd and ah'd for a few sentences and then said that the Coalition would reinstate the full rebate *as soon as possible*, thus leaving himself an out.


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## qldfrog (15 February 2012)

I will be hit by this new law; I do not ask any subsidy, I just ask freedom of doing what I want; I had full cover gold all extras etc 2 years ago when I nearly lost my hand in a nasty encounter with a circular saw;
My emergency treatment was at the public hospital (Royal Brisbane) and the treatment was the best available around for emergency;
I then went private for microsurgery, graft, 3h long surgery, etc etc; ultimately with my top of the top cover costing a packet (with rebate) I was still out of pocket by around 3k;
I could afford loosing a hand every 2 to 3 years and still be better off financially
Do not lure yourself: private cover will not be what you expect
And if real s##t happens (coronary bypass, complications etc), the public system will be the only one you will afford as you can read in the fine print
My conclusion was that private cover allowed me a nice private room with TV, the rest was a waste.

So now I will try to get the cheapest available cover with make me avoid the penalty:
max excess and as few as possible cover for lower dollar. Any recommendation welcome...
In the meantime, the coming months will see dental work and new pairs of glasses for the whole (small) family!!!!


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## todster (16 February 2012)

qldfrog said:


> I will be hit by this new law; I do not ask any subsidy, I just ask freedom of doing what I want; I had full cover gold all extras etc 2 years ago when I nearly lost my hand in a nasty encounter with a circular saw;
> My emergency treatment was at the public hospital (Royal Brisbane) and the treatment was the best available around for emergency;
> I then went private for microsurgery, graft, 3h long surgery, etc etc; ultimately with my top of the top cover costing a packet (with rebate) I was still out of pocket by around 3k;
> I could afford loosing a hand every 2 to 3 years and still be better off financially
> ...




I think the with the life threatning stuff your right but try getting a shoulder or knee or back looked at while your not getting payed and watch that burn a hole in your bank account.


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## qldfrog (16 February 2012)

todster said:


> I think the with the life threatning stuff your right but try getting a shoulder or knee or back looked at while your not getting payed and watch that burn a hole in your bank account.




it would be really interesting to have someone giving us some real $figure on that: anyone with a knee reconstruction cost within full private cover?
And someone who went without private cover??
As I said my skin, nerve and vessel graft was just an endless list of above threathold so not covered;
Private insurance will at the most (and within limits) cover the gap between medicare paidback and a grossly undervalued figure supposed to be the "cost" of a procedure; you will soon discover that all decent surgeons, hospitals, etc are way above the medicare figure.
So my resulting analysis that private health cover is worthless except for the feel good feeling; 
Would you take a house insurance which would only cover for median house price when you own a castle, and would you believe them if the premium was the same irrespective of the house or unit size/value (in private health, same premium irrespective of the household size or age)
The whole private health insurance is a scam distorted by dogmatic belief, and a carrot and stick approach. 
So please can I pay a $1k  hospital cover to a Moldovian fund policy with $10k extra and limited /hardly any benefit?
A good business concept here...
Or will the ATO fine me for tax avoidance in the new Australian spirit?
A bit cranky as you can read...


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## Julia (17 February 2012)

Qld frog, hope the hand is going to recover completely.   

There will always be situations where using the private system will not be an advantage and will cost the gap payments.

But I've seen so many people suffer in pain for up to ten years before getting orthopaedic procedures.  One friend needed a knee replacement.  By the time his name came up, 7 years after going on the waiting list, he also needed a hip replacement due to the awkward way he had been walking.  Then another 7 or so years waiting for the hip procedure.


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## alwaysLearning (17 February 2012)

Dink said:


> I am a doctor and I would not go anywhere without health insurance. I can afford it and therefore think I should pay for it. It is simply not worth the risk (and risk is what insurance is all about) for me not to have it.  I have complete faith in the public system to deal with emergency cases soundly but my family's health and well being is the most important thing and will spare no cost.




I'm glad to hear what an actual doctor is doing. I'm going to try and hold on to private health insurance also.


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## todster (17 February 2012)

qldfrog said:


> it would be really interesting to have someone giving us some real $figure on that: anyone with a knee reconstruction cost within full private cover?
> And someone who went without private cover??
> As I said my skin, nerve and vessel graft was just an endless list of above threathold so not covered;
> Private insurance will at the most (and within limits) cover the gap between medicare paidback and a grossly undervalued figure supposed to be the "cost" of a procedure; you will soon discover that all decent surgeons, hospitals, etc are way above the medicare figure.
> ...




you dont seem to get my drift
unless you cant walk  with a dodgy knee they aint gonna even look at ya.
its not the level of care its getting the care


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## Logique (18 February 2012)

todster said:


> you dont seem to get my drift
> unless you cant walk  with a dodgy knee they aint gonna even look at ya.
> its not the level of care its getting the care



Agree, with the public system it's more about access and the waiting lists.


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## prawn_86 (7 June 2012)

Work is now encouraging us to pre-pay our private health for the 12/13 FY as that way we will not be slugged with the removal of the private health rebate, until June 2013.

Will cost me $2k to pay upfront and save about $400, so not a bad return, and anything to stop the gov getting more money off me is also worth it


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## drsmith (7 June 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> Work is now encouraging us to pre-pay our private health for the 12/13 FY as that way we will not be slugged with the removal of the private health rebate, until June 2013.



Sounds too good to be true.

I'd be checking the fine print with the ATO, for example, does any prepayment count for next year anyway, and if not, are you then liable for the surcharge ?


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## Garpal Gumnut (7 June 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> Work is now encouraging us to pre-pay our private health for the 12/13 FY as that way we will not be slugged with the removal of the private health rebate, until June 2013.
> 
> Will cost me $2k to pay upfront and save about $400, so not a bad return, and anything to stop the gov getting more money off me is also worth it






drsmith said:


> Sounds too good to be true.
> 
> I'd be checking the fine print with the ATO, for example, does any prepayment count for next year anyway, and if not, are you then liable for the surcharge ?




Worthwhile getting this clarified.

gg


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## drsmith (7 June 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Worthwhile getting this clarified.
> 
> gg



I can see retrospective legislation if the government have botched it.


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## prawn_86 (8 June 2012)

Got this from work and then spoke to both my accountant and NIB (my health fund) and they confirmed if you prepay before the end of this FY it means that you will be paying at the current rate, as opposed to the increased rate for next FY.

View attachment Fact Sheet - Health Care Rebate.pdf


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## Garpal Gumnut (8 June 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> Got this from work and then spoke to both my accountant and NIB (my health fund) and they confirmed if you prepay before the end of this FY it means that you will be paying at the current rate, as opposed to the increased rate for next FY.
> 
> View attachment 47354




Thanks prawn,

I shall contact my fund.

gg


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## drsmith (8 June 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> Got this from work and then spoke to both my accountant and NIB (my health fund) and they confirmed if you prepay before the end of this FY it means that you will be paying at the current rate, as opposed to the increased rate for next FY.
> 
> View attachment 47354




Choice are also saying the same thing.



> At the same time, the Medicare Levy Surcharge (MLS) will be increased for higher income earners who don’t have hospital insurance – an additional tax of up to 1.5% of your income will apply.




http://www.choice.com.au/reviews-an.../personal/health-insurance-means-testing.aspx

I'll have to look into this further.


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## prawn_86 (22 June 2012)

Many funds need to have the payment in by 25th in order for it to clear in time. I made my payment this week so have the next year paid off.

Members need to act today if they wish to save some tax (and it is applicable to them)


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## drsmith (29 June 2012)

Medibank Private are accepting advance payments up to 18 months in advance and such payments qualify for the private health insurance rebate in this financial year (no means test) if made by June 30.

I've paid 18-months in advance over the phone this morning in order to qualify for the rebate without means test for as long as I can. Advance payment can be made through their webside, but for me, the process failed and it was not clear what the maximum amount was that I could pay. Stick to calling them, but bear in mind that they are getting swamped with calls. Wait time for me was approximately 40 minutes for me (thank goodness for loudspeaker, I tried the online process while waiting). 

2, 4,6, 8, take advantage of another government stuffup, don't wait.


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## drsmith (29 June 2012)

drsmith said:


> 2, 4,6, 8, take advantage of another government stuffup, don't wait.



On second thought, the might be being very tricky.

The rebate for the advance payments would come off the 2011/12 FY budget, not 2012/13 and member dropoffs from losing the rebate would be postponed until after the next election.


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## drsmith (29 June 2012)

From the horses mouth,



> *Does the income testing of the rebate apply to premiums paid in the 2011-12 income year?*
> 
> No. The legislation to income test the private health insurance rebate starts from 1 July 2012 and will apply to premiums paid on or after that date. We will determine your private health insurance rebate entitlement for the 2012-13 income year (Tax Time 2013) and later years.
> 
> ...




http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/content.aspx?menuid=0&doc=/content/00233246.htm&page=3&H3


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## prawn_86 (29 June 2012)

drsmith said:


> From the horses mouth,




I have been advised by numerous tax professionals that this is not only legit, much encouraged if one can afford it. Pretty much everyone from our work did it.


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## sptrawler (29 June 2012)

qldfrog said:


> it would be really interesting to have someone giving us some real $figure on that: anyone with a knee reconstruction cost within full private cover?
> And someone who went without private cover??
> As I said my skin, nerve and vessel graft was just an endless list of above threathold so not covered;
> Private insurance will at the most (and within limits) cover the gap between medicare paidback and a grossly undervalued figure supposed to be the "cost" of a procedure; you will soon discover that all decent surgeons, hospitals, etc are way above the medicare figure.




A bit late on the answer, been away. However I have had both knees replaced with full private cover total cost $25,000 each. I ended up approx $3000 out of pocket for each knee.


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## johenmo (30 June 2012)

Interesting thread. I had a shoulder done privately - arthritic bone spurs ripping the muscle when I moved it.  It was day surgery but I was still nearly 1K out of pocket - the anaesthetist XS was as much as the surgeon.  But it was a 3 or 4 year wait in the public because there were many more before me.  So I decided to  pay in order to get rid of pain, be able to sleep, etc..  Cheaper and more use than my suit!  Best 1K I have ever spent.

We've had health insurance forever and it's worth it.  

My renewed interest in health insurance comes from probably needing to have a CABG (still working it out).  Cardiologist is recommending it even though I am reasonably symptom free.  On that basis the public won't touch me as I don't rate as bad enough within the guidelines - which don't allow for family history.  We have a public and a private hospital next door to each other in town so will have to shop around.  And when I know & have known people who are 100% public reliant and have bad heart problems and have to wait months to get a test (have known two to drop off the perch whilst waiting) I can see why it's good to have a choice.  What's a few dollars saved if you aren't here to spend it...


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## Smurf1976 (25 October 2014)

Smurf1976 said:


> And I'll be keeping my health insurance too. I've never made any sort of claim, actually I don't even know how to go about claiming, but you never know what's around the corner. I've heard more than enough public hospital horror stories to know that I'll be keeping my health insurance.




Well on Tuesday night I had the misfortune of finding out how it works. Massive pain, lots of other nasty things happening (let's just say my face "blew up" just like a balloon), never been in an ambulance before, all very scary and nasty.

But ultimately it took about 3 minutes from getting in the hospital (private) to having a doctor doing this, that and everything else to me. Very quick and efficient compared to the public system horror stories of people waiting for hours in the emergency department.

I'm back home now, mind and body are both still messed up a bit from it all (and from the drugs pumped into me probably) but the doctors say I'll be OK but need to wait for the remaining swelling etc to go (might take a while apparently) then come back and they'll determine how I got such a nasty infection in the first place.  

So the private health system seems to be working fine for me when I need it. Obviously I don't have a direct comparison to how well the public system would deal with it, but I suspect it would have been more than a 3 minute wait.


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## Julia (25 October 2014)

Smurf, I'm sorry to hear of your experience.  Hope you're soon quite well again.

Can you say how it was that you were taken directly to a private hospital in the first place?  All the private hospitals I've ever known don't have an emergency/acute admission facility and people who have called for an ambulance are taken at least initially to the public hospital then arrangements made for transfer to private if appropriate medical personnel are available there.

Did you perhaps have your GP see you first and the admission was arranged by him/her?


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## McLovin (25 October 2014)

Julia said:


> Smurf, I'm sorry to hear of your experience.  Hope you're soon quite well again.
> 
> Can you say how it was that you were taken directly to a private hospital in the first place?  All the private hospitals I've ever known don't have an emergency/acute admission facility and people who have called for an ambulance are taken at least initially to the public hospital then arrangements made for transfer to private if appropriate medical personnel are available there.
> 
> Did you perhaps have your GP see you first and the admission was arranged by him/her?




There's a few around Sydney, usually the bigger privates that aren't attached to a public hospital. You usually need insurance unless the nearest public hospital has no room at the inn, in which case you're sent to the private hospital. Example...

http://www.norwestprivatehospital.com.au/


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## Smurf1976 (25 October 2014)

Julia said:


> Smurf, I'm sorry to hear of your experience.  Hope you're soon quite well again.
> 
> Can you say how it was that you were taken directly to a private hospital in the first place?



I'm feeling reasonable now, a bit "spaced out" so hopefully this reads OK. 

In short, started feeling a bit unwell late in the morning, went home from work mid-afternoon and called GP to make an appointment with the earliest available being the next day. 

Within a few hours I was having real trouble so ended up writing a short note explaining the situation and went next door to get someone to call for help - it was beyond my abilities to be making phone calls by that stage.

Handed a note to the ambulance people saying that I had private health insurance and wanted the fastest treatment, public or private. They made some calls and took me to Hobart Private Hospital - it's physically in the same city block as the public hospital but has its' own emergency department. So that's how I got there.....

First time I've ever been a patient in a private hospital. I'm quite happy with the standard of service, despite obviously costing me more than using the public system. That goes against my principles somewhat, I'd rather we had properly resourced public hospitals and just pay more tax or whatever is needed to make that happen, but unfortunately that's not the situation we have.


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## sydboy007 (26 October 2014)

Smurf1976 said:


> First time I've ever been a patient in a private hospital. I'm quite happy with the standard of service, despite obviously costing me more than using the public system. That goes against my principles somewhat,* I'd rather we had properly resourced public hospitals and just pay more tax or whatever is needed to make that happen, but unfortunately that's not the situation we have*.




My attitude as well.  I'd much rather see a better funded public system.  I fear we're more and more headign towards US style health care here.

As for PHI, I make a lot of use of mine.  Mostly the extras cover though.  Touch wood haven't had to get any hospital treatments, though thinking I might have to get something done to my knee since it's started to play up and the physio hasn't seemed to help so far.


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## drsmith (26 October 2014)

Smurf1976 said:


> I'm feeling reasonable now, a bit "spaced out" so hopefully this reads OK.



Red back spider on the toilet seat ??

It's good to see you're OK.


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## shouldaindex (8 December 2014)

I'd rather insurance for the capital I spend on health insurance than health insurance.

Isn't it one and the same, except you probably have more money in investments than health insurance.


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## Julia (3 January 2015)

From the Weekend Australian today:


> UNPROVEN natural therapies will be stripped of government subsidies, amid signs private health insurers and their members have embraced the so-called alternatives to traditional medicine and driven up costs.
> 
> More than half of all Australians ”” about 13 million people ”” have general treatment policies, many of which now provide cover for alternative medicine and still attract the government rebate.
> 
> ...




About time.  As more and more of these unproven lurks have been included - even when not wanted by the customer - premiums have risen exponentially.


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## Bill M (4 January 2015)

Smurf1976 said:


> First time I've ever been a patient in a private hospital. I'm quite happy with the standard of service, despite obviously costing me more than using the public system. That goes against my principles somewhat, I'd rather we had properly resourced public hospitals and just pay more tax or whatever is needed to make that happen, but unfortunately that's not the situation we have.






sydboy007 said:


> My attitude as well.  I'd much rather see a better funded public system.  I fear we're more and more headign towards US style health care here.




My wife and I have never had private health insurance. When we were working and young we thought we were paying more than our fair share with the medicare levy. We rarely got sick and couldn't see the point of forking out more for something we didn't use much. 

Then we got older and my wife needed a rather large procedure. She went to a specialist and asked to be admitted through the public hospital system. Within 5 weeks she had her procedure and it was totally covered by medicare. Then only a few Months ago I needed a medium sized procedure, same deal asked to be admitted into a Public Hospital. Again my operation was performed within 6 weeks and medicare paid. We think the public hospital system was good in both cases and still can't see the point in getting private insurance.

My Mother is in her 80's and has private health insurance, she does not like the public system. She has the opposite view to us about the system. She says things like, they send you home too early and the level of care is not so good. I am not sure about that as I was up there taking her to the 2 major public hospitals on the Gold Coast and they seemed professional enough for me. With her last episode she ended up in a private hospital, I couldn't see the difference between the two systems although she did get her extended stay in the private one.

My Mother has a circle of elderly friends, all + 80 Y/O. Some of them have private health insurance but when they have an episode they still ask to be taken to a Public Hospital and not a private one and the reason is they do not want to pay the $400 - $500 excess fee for private admittance. To me I can't see the point of having the insurance in the first place if they aren't going to use it.

I agree with Smurf and Sydboy, I would like to see a stronger better Public Hospital system. I and many of my friends would be happier to pay a little bit more in the medicare levy to fund a better Public Hospital system. I do not want to go anywhere near a system like the USA has, even what we have now is far superior to that.


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## qldfrog (4 January 2015)

remember that for many of us working people, private insurance is de facto mandatory with a punitive medicare extra levy if you do not belong;
Do I want to have private medical insurance?
no
do i prefer public hospitals: yes i do for real emergencies.
In case of non urgent, you quickly realise that the fact you have insurance does not make much difference for the bill you pay in a private hospital; your yearly premium would easily cover the extra cost
private health insurance has a very low ROI for the insured

yet i have a private insurance as the current laws do not give me the choice
nanny state australia again


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## Julia (4 January 2015)

Bill, it's good that you were looked after so rapidly in the public system.  Might depend where you live.
At least in this regional area, people wait up to six years for such as knee replacements, by which time they need a hip replacement as well because of the awkward way they've been walking for so long.

The other factor is the standard of the public hospital.  It is, um, less than great here.  If you live in a major city and have access to hospitals of the highest standard it's a whole different story from what you get in regional areas where top medical personnel simply don't want to be.

And then anything serious like complicated surgery the patient has to be taken to Brisbane because they just aren't up to doing it here.

And apart from all that, I want my choice of doctor, not some less than fully qualified Registrar which is a choice you don't get in the public system.


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## Bill M (4 January 2015)

Julia said:


> And apart from all that, I want my choice of doctor, not some less than fully qualified Registrar which is a choice you don't get in the public system.




People have mentioned this before but it is totally irrelevant to my wife and I. We don't know any Doctors other than a couple at our clinic and even then we don't see them everytime. Sometimes we just take the first available and they all seem to know what they are doing.

When something needs more attention they send us elsewhere where we don't know anyone or any provider so we wouldn't know a good one from a bad one. I will say that when I had my operation, they told me just before I went in that they had just performed the same operation on 5 people before me. It was like a production line, a very well organised one. I had 3 different surgeons speak to me just before the op and they were very professional. I have not seen them again (except for the head surgeon) and my operation was a 100% success. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't care who does my operation as long as they do it right.

By the way, the head surgeon does exactly the same operations in a local private hospital too, the only difference is one is public and the other is private, same end result.


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## Julia (4 January 2015)

Bill M said:


> . I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't care who does my operation as long as they do it right.



And that's the only thing any of us are worried about.  You live in a major city with access to the best standard of care.  You don't need to have had anything to do with the surgeon as long as he's competent.

What the big difference is, as I've tried to explain, is that you simply do not have access to that level of professionalism in many regional hospitals.
Just one example:  my father had an acute bowel obstruction.  Needs immediate surgery, no question.
It was carried out here by foreign trained doctor with minimal surgical experience.  Colostomy as a result which is not unexpected.  However, the procedure was so badly done that the stoma constantly leaked and actually 'exploded' at times, spreading faecal matter all over him, his clothing, bed etc.   
I don't think anyone would consider that a satisfactory outcome.

I had an instance a few years ago where in the middle of the night I couldn't swallow properly.  Breathing was difficult.  Phoned ambulance which came very quickly and took me straight in. Those symptoms can be part of infarction.
I was first seen by an *intern* whose English was not understandable.  He went away and came back clutching book "Medicine for Students".  No thanks.  He didn't have a clue, and eventually went away and came back with the Registrar who was much better.

So it's great that you've had such good attention but the reality is that not everyone has access to the same.


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## Bill M (4 January 2015)

Both cases sound horrible Julia, that was awful to go through.

If you had to be put in an ambulance at 3 AM in the morning, could you be taken to a much better private facility with better medics there? I mean, if you were conscious and could direct them to take you to that private facility would it be adequately staffed?


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## Julia (4 January 2015)

Bill M said:


> Both cases sound horrible Julia, that was awful to go through.



It was particularly horrible for my father.  I'm certain the ongoing embarrassment and "yuk factor' was a large part of his decision to commit suicide.



> If you had to be put in an ambulance at 3 AM in the morning, could you be taken to a much better private facility with better medics there? I mean, if you were conscious and could direct them to take you to that private facility would it be adequately staffed?



Unfortunately, no, which is something I'm constantly concerned about.  We have a brand new private hospital with the best of facilities but they have no emergency department.  So there's simply no alternative to the public hospital for other than elective situations.

In cases like you describe for yourself where it seems you had plenty of warning, yes one could elect to go to the private hospital with private specialist who your GP would assure you was up to the job.  Even then, the same principle applies to some extent about the best doctors wanting to stay where they converse and have ongoing training with their peers at teaching hospitals.
We have no cardiologist here, for example, which seems ridiculous in a town of 55,000 people many of whom are retirees.


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## Bill M (5 January 2015)

Julia said:


> In cases like you describe for yourself where it seems you had plenty of warning, yes one could elect to go to the private hospital with private specialist who your GP would assure you was up to the job.  Even then, the same principle applies to some extent about the best doctors wanting to stay where they converse and have ongoing training with their peers at teaching hospitals.
> We have no cardiologist here, for example, which seems ridiculous in a town of 55,000 people many of whom are retirees.




It does seem ridiculous not having a cardiologist in your town considering the size and demographic. 

My area has a population of around 320,000 and we are serviced by 2 Public Hospitals. We do have cardiologists and an operating theater that is dedicated to only heart related procedures. 

I'm pretty sure you are right, we are serviced better here and I fully understand why you have health insurance. I really think more pressure needs to be put on the Queensland Government to provide better services. Medicare can always be improved and it seems like a bit more resources could go to areas like yours, I hope the situation improves for you all up there.


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## Julia (5 January 2015)

Thanks, Bill.  It's the one down side in living in an otherwise great situation, eg 5 minutes walk to beautiful beach, wonderful weather, no traffic snarls or road rage, laid back friendly population.
All of life is a compromise, I guess.


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## Smurf1976 (27 July 2015)

I won't go into details on a public forum but suffice to say that a close family member has been in hospital with a serious condition since Tuesday last week. 

I must say that the standard of care provided in the public system (Royal Hobart Hospital) has been excellent. Despite the apparent funding constraints imposed on public hospitals, and in some cases those constraints are unfortunately obvious, staff there are clearly doing their best and deserve full credit for their professionalism. 

Private cover wouldn't have helped in terms of actual medical care so far as I can tell. More space and privacy perhaps but not with the actual medical treatment which from my layman's perspective appears to be first class.


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## SmokeyGhost (27 July 2015)

I do hope your relative recovers.

I am ambivalent on health cover.  My family have used the public health system a couple of times as well as private hospitals.  In both, a more than satisfactory level of care was provided.  However, I do consider when using public the question on admission "Do you have private health cover?" is wrong.  It should be "Do you wish to be admitted as a public or private patient" is more appropriate.  The matter of private health cover should not be relevant at that stage.  On each occasion we have used the public system, I simply tell admission area it is public.  They have no right as far as I am concerned to know of my financial arrangements.

Also I feel the claim from health funds you have a choice of doctors is slightly misleading.  Usually, a GP refers to specialists known to them not you.  And if I should know the best surgeon in the world who is say located in Queensland, there is no way a hospital in Melbourne would allow that surgeon to operate as they don't have access rights.  The health fund is certainly not going to cover my costs of traveling to Queensland.  So I reckon your choice, for want of a better word, is very limited.


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## SirRumpole (27 July 2015)

I'm thinking of giving up private health insurance as it's getting too expensive.

In other forms of insurance, if you don't make claims, you get a no claim bonus. Health insurance premiums should reduce the longer you have been in a scheme, but they only increase, and will do so at a greater rate once Medibank "Private" is privatised.


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## drsmith (27 July 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> I'm thinking of giving up private health insurance as it's getting too expensive.



Information on government surcharges & incentives in relation to private health insurance can be viewed from the following page,

http://www.privatehealth.gov.au/healthinsurance/incentivessurcharges/


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## SirRumpole (27 July 2015)

drsmith said:


> Information on government surcharges & incentives in relation to private health insurance can be viewed from the following page,
> 
> http://www.privatehealth.gov.au/healthinsurance/incentivessurcharges/




Thanks Doc


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## sydboy007 (27 July 2015)

Smurf1976 said:


> I won't go into details on a public forum but suffice to say that a close family member has been in hospital with a serious condition since Tuesday last week.
> 
> I must say that the standard of care provided in the public system (Royal Hobart Hospital) has been excellent. Despite the apparent funding constraints imposed on public hospitals, and in some cases those constraints are unfortunately obvious, staff there are clearly doing their best and deserve full credit for their professionalism.
> 
> Private cover wouldn't have helped in terms of actual medical care so far as I can tell. More space and privacy perhaps but not with the actual medical treatment which from my layman's perspective appears to be first class.




The only benefit I see with PHI is being able to jump the queue for elective surgery.

If you need care now, there seems to be little benefit in terms of the actual treatment, and in some cases you can be left with a lot of out of pocket expenses if treated as a private patient.

At my income level it's cheaper to get useless PHI rather than pay the extra tax.  Crazy that we have such a stupid situation like this.  Very inefficient.  Would be better to have the funds flowing into the public system with the private hospitals providing some competitive tension for those who would like faster treatment.


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## Logique (28 October 2015)

I admit upfront that I haven't read through the thread.

Have just seen Health Minister Sussan Ley on the ABC National Press Club address today. 

This is a crackerjack Health Minister. Her proposal for patient control and portability of personal health records is inspired and long overdue. 

Sussan Ley is consultative, she listens, she is across the brief. She is from a regional electorate and understands the issues.  (No I am not a member of her staff).


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