# The First Few Days of Day Trading



## investorpaul (4 February 2009)

Where to start??? To give some back ground information I started investing in shares about 7 or 8 years ago. Initially due my limited capital, time and knowledge I stuck to a buy and hold strategy (and up until the recent crisis I had done quiet well). 

The next stage of my stock market experience, which occurred a few years after my initial investment and after I had gained further knowledge on the works of the market involved short term trading speculative mining stocks and put/call options.

The two lessons I learnt from this were:
1. There is no enough liquidity in options (in my opinion), I made some money but constantly had to drop my sell price just to attract a buyer. 
2. With spec stocks it involves a great deal of time understanding the company and the area of mining in which they were involved. This limited my ability to trade these stocks as I was studying full time and could only keep tabs on a few at a time and even then would have to wait  considerable time for a buy signal to eventuate.

Eventually my interest level dropped off (I still maintained my long term stocks but was not actively trading) I got busy with HSC, my own business and now University and full time employment. 

That all changed towards the end of last year. I missed trading, I missed the effort I put in, the research I did and the feeling I got when I timed my entry/exit and made good trades. I began to investigate how I could get into the market whilst working and studying and help to develop my skills so I can eventually trade full time. I had read about CFD's in the past and although I had been involved with options, I steered due to the leverage and my lack of knowledge in the product. This time round I researched it in depth and instantly liked the potential the product would provide me with. I opened demo accounts with IG markets and CMC markets and  instantly swayed towards IG because its user friendly interface. I traded for a couple of weeks to supplement my readings over the last few months.

I opened my trading account just over a week ago and have focused on the FTSE 100. This enables me to work 9-5:30pm, get home at 6pm and be ready to trade by 7pm. At the moment due to my computer set up I look at 4 to 6 stocks at one time and wait for signals to trade.

My trading strategy basically involves support and resistance and trend lines. I identify intra day support, wait for it to be broken and trade. The indicators I use MACD, RSI and momentum are there to confirm trades and identify when the run my be coming to an end to allow a clean  exit.

Some far I have traded 4 days, unfortunately day 1 was not as successful as I hoped. Because I am only monitoring 4 to 6 stocks at a time, I got frustrated as I wanted to trade. I jumped in too early before the uptrend had really identified itself. A few it reversed and bounced around for a few hours. Eventually i exited at the price I bought and only lost out on commission. Lesson one was learnt: You don't need to trade, being out of the market is a position in itself. I had been too eager and didn't follow my principles.

Day two would be more successful, although another lesson would be learnt. I had been following Barclay's which had shot up nearly 100% over the past week. It had begun to reverse but had not yet broken through a key support level. Once it broke I short sold (I am currently only using positions of $1,000 until I develop my skills). I couldn't believe my eyes +$100,+$200 +$300 every few seconds it was going lower and lower and my position was showing a profit of $600 within half an hour or so. Then it reversed, I justified holding the position because it may just be a small bounce but it turned almost into a full reversal. I jumped ship for a profit of about $100. Lesson Two: Set stop losses as your profit rises and once the selling/buying looks to have ended. I would have been better off making $600, than holding out hoping it would have gone even lower. Simple answer was I GOT GREEDY and paid for it. 

Day 3: Barclay's again, Short sold again, this time $200 profit and sold out once the momentum had run out. I was very pleased with this trade as I had learnt my lessons from the day before and was pleased to see a decent return for the nights work and unlike the other nights I had kept my emotions in check and not gotten carried away with my paper profit.

Day 4: This time I bought Xtrata, I noticed a strong up movement followed by a smaller drop due to profit taking and the stock being over bought initially, it was taking a breather and there was a pattern that had developed showing an uptrend since open. I purchased as the stock headed back towards its high. It eventually reached and surpassed that high and subsequent support/resistance levels from previous days trading. Over the past days trading I had become accustom to the indicators and what they were telling me (it was one thing to read about them in a book, but watching them is a whole other level). My RSI was showing 75, then 80 then 85 before making  out at about 86 or 87, it was well over bought and the momentum was flattening out. A medium bar emerged and I sold out to take profits, it soon retreated in a similar pattern to its previous retreat. I left it at that and headed to bed. Another successful day trading and more lessons learnt in understanding indicators and the support and resistance levels.

P.S I hope to eventually post some charts up showing my entry and exits because all the above could just be "talk" and it doesn't show much detail without a chart. At the moment through I'm at work without access to yesterdays intra day chart.


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## Sean K (4 February 2009)

Cripes, an epic!

Looking forward to seeing what comes next.


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## peter2 (4 February 2009)

It is important to trade in a consistent manner. Use the same time frame all stocks, trade only a few patterns and become very good at trading them, keep a day journal with your comments and gradually you will notice patterns in your own thinking and therefore your trading. Keep details of all trades and report them in this blog. Most blogs only show some of their trades and then disappear (=poor discipline, no persistence). Batch your trades into groups of 20 and keep stats on each batch as well as cumulative totals. Your first goal should be W% > 50% and aveW/aveL > 2. Calculate and monitor your expectancy. 
It is easy to start something. How strong is your motivation?


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## investorpaul (4 February 2009)

Thanks for your comments, I have noticed some other bloggers have put up Excel sheets of their trades, mine will be up soon. I am looking forward to everyones comments


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## investorpaul (4 February 2009)

Hi everyone,

Thanks for everyone who has already read my blog and/or made a comment. 

I really want to keep this thing going for a number of reasons. Mainly because it keeps me accountable it makes me analyse my trades and look at what is happening.

I have done up an Excel spreadsheet of my first few days and will update it for each trade I make. 

Let me know what you think.

Click Below to open:
View attachment 40270


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## It's Snake Pliskin (5 February 2009)

Good to see someone doing a real journal of their trading. Be careful of shorts. $600 in half an hour would see me protecting it especially when trading 1k per trade.

Get some setups that work and then just wait for them to eventuate and act. Pounce and manage the risk. 
Cheers..

*Not advice just discussion.*


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## investorpaul (5 February 2009)

Before I begin just a quick word of thanks for the comments you all have provided. Its alot easier promoting a blog on a site that has active listeners rather than try and drag everyone to another site like blogger (which I have tried in the past).

Anyway last night was frustrating for results, I think the major problem was that there wasnt enough volatility when I was trading. I bought Barclays as it jumped above a resistance line and quickly rose. However it quickly retreated and I could tell momentum would not be with this stock for now. I hadnt seen a reason to sell and contniuned to hold, around the hour mark it started showing signs of weakness and I jumped ship. The end result was a profit of 13 pounds, a couple of minutes later it quickly dropped. If I had held I would have seen a loss of a couple of hundred dollars pretty quick. So although not successful in terms of return I was pleased with  my timing and the reading of the market.

For the rest of the time I was trading it did nothing spectacular and I did not re-enter the stock.

I did however do something I hadnt yet done, traded another stock in the same session, previously I have been happy with the return or needed to head off to bed and havnt been able to fit in another trade. However last night I still had a few hours up my sleeve. BHP had entered a downtrend and I bought once it broke through an intraday support level. Unfortunately it didnt drop as fast as I would have liked and bounced around abit. It seemed to be getting tied up in minor intraday support/resistance levels and had trouble breaking through. Eventually I was up about $80, followed by an initally small reversal.  Again the stock got caught up in these minor support/resistance levels and didnt quite know which way to go. I was sitting on break even (after commission) and decided to exit, just as I did it went up a bit, so I ended up with a 2.50 pound loss (after commission), no big worry. 

On one front I was happy with the timing of my exit as the stock did rise and continued to do so  for the rest of the session. I was however disappointed with my entry. I had jumped in a little bit late and I didnt expect these minor support/resistance levels to complicate the trade as much as it did.

The only other frustrating part of the night was that I missed some clear buy or short sell signals on a few stocks. 

Please check out the results below:

View attachment 40271


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## prawn_86 (5 February 2009)

Whats your risk per trade? The usual 2%?


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## investorpaul (5 February 2009)

I started with $2500 in my account, basically at $3k now and my risk per trade would be approx 2% (which equates to $60,) so i bump it up to a round figure of $100. However I normally sell out, as my trading analysis shows, at the first sign of momentum or the trend breaking and therefore my losses have been less than the 2% so far.


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## peter2 (5 February 2009)

I see your costs are a large component of your trade risk. This will make it very difficult for you while trading intra-day. You seem to be able to exit quickly and that is good. If you can survive for 20 trades think about adding more money to your account. This will lessen the impact of your (too) high costs.


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## investorpaul (5 February 2009)

Peter2 - Because im trading the FTSE the commission is 10 pounds (so 20 all up) this equates to approx $45 as you can see. If I was able to trade the ASX I would pay $16 to enter and exit and would already be alot more profitable. 

At the moment the position of my trades are only $1000, to ensure that if I do take a big hit i can still enter another trade another day. Eventually I will build up my capital and be able to trade larger amounts which will lessen the impact of brokerage.


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## mattlaw (5 February 2009)

The 2 barclays trades that you have done 2nd and 3rd may be entered incorrectly. You short sold both trades and they are opposite.


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## investorpaul (5 February 2009)

Mattlaw - yer it looks like the buy sell prices are round the other way, but the profit is still correct because the formula wasnt linked to those prices and my spreadsheet balances with my account statements, Ill fix it tonight. Thanks


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## investorpaul (6 February 2009)

Goodmorning to everyone again,

Last night was profitable but the annoying thing was I missed about 3 or 4 big price movements in other stocks because I was in another/or focusing on a different chart. 

I try and watch 5 or 6 at a time and for example I knew I wanted to enter Xstrata at a certain price. Soon it broke through a support/resistance level but quickly leveled off, this is where I should have bought, because within two minutes it shot up from 720 to 730 to 740. I had missed my chance and stayed out. It eventually hit about 756 before reversing. Another lesson was deffinately learned, I should set up and utilise the alert systems, even if my eyes arnt on the chart I can still know when it breaks through these important levels. Obviously using a computer with only one screen doesnt help either and eventually the plan is to be able to have between 4 and 6.

Another lesson learnt was even if the price jumps (eg Xstrata 720 to 730) quickly it doesnt mean it wont rise more. When Xstrata jumped the first time I stayed out, thinking I had missed the boat. If I had been quick to buy I would have picked up the second jump to 740 and then the rise all the way to 756. 

But today is another day and I cant complain forever over missed opportunities, I need to be more alert and utilise the tools available to ensure I notice important price movements.


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## investorpaul (6 February 2009)

As my first post focused on there were some missed opportunities last night, but not to worry I was profitable. I have now lifted my account above $3,000 for the first time and so far for my first week of CFD trading have made about 5 or 6 hundred dollars (after commission).

My first trade involved RIO it had rallied for a little while and I noticed some weakness creaping into the price movements. My entry timing into RIO was pretty bad and I need to refine thing for some of my trades. I possibly could have entered a few pounds higher, I short sold at 1817 but the price lifted and soon I was down $100, pushing me to almost exit. I literally had the deal window open, the order filled and just had to push the button. Luckly it set a lower high and then a lower low and continued on its down trend. It got to about 70 pounds profit before pulling back at which point I got the confirmation signals to exit with about 110 profit (before commission). I could have probably got out a few minutes earlier and made another 20 but thats being picky on my trading style. After I exited It rose slowly for a while before accelerating (I should have gone long, but I missed the boat on this one).

The next trade Xstrata came after I missed its run as well. It had gone from being 1 or 2% in the red for the today to +4%. It had been overbought and evetually levelled off. It set in a low, then a lower high, then a lower low. On the tick up I short sold and rode the stock down. It maxed out at about 80 pounds profit but snapped back to 60 pounds profit pretty quick. I probably should have taken this as my exit signal but held on and eventually only made 45 pounds of $100 (before commission). 

I seem to prefer short selling at the moment, I dont know why but I seem to find it easier to identify signals to short rather than go long. Hopefully over the next few days I can refine my entrys for long stocks and make a few dollars on the way up as well as the way down.

So for the night I was up about $100, had broken through $3000 in my account and had learnt a few more lessons. So overall not too bad. I hope to post later about why I love trading so much and also about how commission is a killer. If I forget make sure you remind me.

In the meantime check out the new CFD analysis to get all the Info on my latest trades. Again they were $1000 positions.


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## Iron Man (6 February 2009)

Investorpaul

Hi mate, how do you find your stocks to trade on FSTE? what data - CFD provider?

Cheers


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## Iron Man (6 February 2009)

Mate Cityindex has a no commission trading for the month


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## investorpaul (6 February 2009)

Hi Iron Man, I trade with IG markets and pay 4 pounds for live data, at the moment I just use IGs charting software. At the moment I am sticking with larger/well known stocks and have mainly traded barclays, Xstrata, BHP and RIO. 

Thanks


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## investorpaul (6 February 2009)

I noticed that a couple of days after I set up my account, I thought about changing but i couldnt be bothered with the hassle. 

Hopefully in a couple of weeks/months I will be able to trade $2k positions instead of $1k, which will help limit the impact of commissions on my trading.


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## investorpaul (8 February 2009)

Hi all,

It looks like IG markets dont process statements until the next business day so results from Fridays trading will have to wait. I wont spoil it by giving the results now, all I will say that it was the most intense session yet. On one hand I was disappointed with myself, yet on the other hand pleased with the way I handled the situation.

So 1 week of proper day trading down, wow, what an intense week! I finished the week up about $500 using $1000 positions so I am definately pleased with the result. I have completed 10 fulls trades and I would have been happy to break even and just have a weeks worth of trading experience. I'm not going to get carried away with the results as I can see how it can all be wiped out with one wrong move (as my trading diary, which I will post on Monday will cover). 

So far I have experienced a range of emotions and feelings; I have experienced being up over $600 on one trade and then seeing it almost all evaporate, I have made money on a few trades and taken a few hits as well. 

Obviously the most valuable lesson learned is how to handle the pressure when your money is on the line, you have to look at it objectively. The first trade I did I was watching every cent I made and loss, but after ten trades I can remove myself from that and look at the charts objectively. I can ask myself, if I wasnt in this trade would I still enter it? if the answer is yes then its ok to stay in the trade, If its no I need to be prepared to exit once I get a confirmation signal or see weakness creeping into the price.

The other major lesson learned is the indicators, it is one thing to read about them in a book, but when you watch RSI, MACD, Momentum tick up and down with the price you begin to get a "feel" for it, this will obviously develop over time but was one of the first things I noticed once I began trading for real.

Other issues that have come up this week, some through responses to my blog, include the commission paid and how it is eating into my profitability. I think I have paid over $300 in commission so far. Obviously paying that much money in one week sucks, I would much rather have the cash in my pocket. Unfortunately the commission with IG markets is 10 pounds per trade. Im not sure if there is a cheaper provider out there? I did try CMC markets, but wasnt happy with their trading platform and to be honest I probably wouldnt change even if it was a bit cheaper because I am happy with the charting software and platform. 

Of course the other option is to increase the amount of capital in my account. I initally started with $2,500 and am now up to just under $3,000 and although I could contribute some more capital I dont really want to or feel a great need to, I want to see if I can trade my way to a larger account balance and I want to limit myself to my intial investment (at least for now anyway).

So if I dont change provider or contribute more capital what can I do about commission? At the moment I think my only option is to trade up to bigger positions until commission represents a smaller chunk of my capital, it may take time and involve a bit more risk along the way but at the moment its what I feel comfortable with. Plus it will make me analyse my trades more because I dont want to be throwing away 20 pounds of commission for every entry/exit.

So one week down and another one coming up, unfortunately I wont be able to trade as much this week because I have some Uni exams but I hope to fit in 2 or 3 days worth. Hopefully next week Ill have learnt some more and can write about another successful week. In the mean time please feel free to comment and provide feedback.

Thanks,

ip


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## investorpaul (8 February 2009)

So I had an idea, my brother trades poker and sometimes he records his hand using screen capture software. So I though I could record the chart of a company I am trading, have my trend lines, support/resistance, etc plotted and record it for the length of my trade.

I could then add a voice over explaining my reasons for entering and exiting the trade and what my thought process was during the trade. I would obviously speed up the timing so you dont have to watch an hour or two worth of trading and would hope to make the video about 4 or 5 mins long. 

I would then load it on youtube or something and provide a link in my blog. 

Good idea? Rubbish? Not worth doing? let us know.

P.S I will be doing it for personal study any way because I want to be able to review my trades in "live time" anyway so it wont be too much extra work.


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## investorpaul (9 February 2009)

Hi all,

The statement came through for Fridays results and it wasnt pretty. I short sold Xstrata and ended up losing nearly $230. I had the signal to buy, but it reversed almost straight away. I think the problem was:

A. I jumped in too quick
B. The general trend for the week has been up and I tried to trade the reversal which didnt last.
C. I didnt analyse the trade enough.

So anyway after blowing almost half my weeks profits in one week, I saw that Xstrata had reversed and was now in an uptrend. I asked myself, should I buy or any I just trying to trade my way out of trouble? If I felt I was just trading to try and win back some of my loses I would have turned off the computer quick smart. However I thought about it and took an objective view that if I wasnt in the trade I would buy it, so thats what I did.

And good thing I did too, it continued its uptrend for another hour and I was up the $230 I had lost, then my computer crashed - I've never been so stressed in my life - I had begin to notice weakness and was concerned that it would have dropped by the time I rebooted. I quickly logged back in and my thought about weakness was confirmed, it had dropped back a little but not too much. I sold out for a gross profit of $160 so after commission I crawed back about $110 of my loss. For the rest of the time I monitored the stock it trended side ways, I could have probably sold out for another 20 or 30 dollars profit if I had my exit timed a bit better.

So basically I went from being extremely p****ed off at myself for nearly ruining a weeks worth of profits I was some what pleased that I was able to continue to trade with an objective though process and as a result craw some of the loss back.

As my first week summary mentioned I have gone through a fair wild week and experienced extremes at either end of the spectrum..... And I love it. I cant wait until I trade tonight.

Thanks all,

ip

Trading Results
	

		
			
		

		
	

View attachment 40273


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## Iron Man (9 February 2009)

well done - i know the feeling when the computer packs up just at the moment you need it most.


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## investorpaul (13 February 2009)

Hi All,

I just thought I would keep you posted on why there has been no trading updates. I have had the past week off from work for Study leave as I had exams for my Degree in Property that I study via correspondence. I am happy to say that I have now completed my exams (Marketing & Business Finance) for the term and can jump straight back in to study.

I had exams on Monday and Thursday and unfortunately I got itchy figures during the week and decided to trade - Big Mistake - I wasn't in the right head space and quickly lost about $150 (incl. Brokerage). I have learnt my lesson now and wont be doing that again. I hope to post these trading results later today, along with those from last night where I made a modest profit.

Hopefully people are reading this blog.... but unfortunately I cant find a blog hit counter, etc??? Does anyone know if you exists and how I can implement it.

I'll post again soon,

ip


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## Trembling Hand (14 February 2009)

You are on a course to blow your inadequate capital. FAST!!

You don't have enough to day trade especially stocks paying big commish per side. and then risking many time the R per trade that you should. 

Maybe a post on what you are trying to do and how you have PLANED to get there with MM included.

Think that would be of more value than stepping on the roller coaster you are now on. IMHO


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## investorpaul (14 February 2009)

I disagree with your comment but I will post a blog on the issues you mentioned. Ultimately though we will see what happens in 6 months


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## Trembling Hand (15 February 2009)

Whats your Stop as a percentage of capital?

Whats your Commish as a percentage of capital?

You have already stated that your commish paid cost you 10% of your capital in a couple of trades!!!!! 

Whats your chances of coming back from 5 losses in a row? When it happens? with your R level at the last trade?


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## investorpaul (15 February 2009)

If you read my blog I acknowledge that my stop as a percentage of capital (once brokerage is taken into account) is 4 to 5%. I also acknowledge that this is above the 2% and give reasons as to why. As a percentage of my overall portfolio it is under 1%.

Again I have commented on commission - It is high - I know that. But as the article states Im not going to throw 10k into each trade just to make commission more affordable.

I have increased my capital base by $400 to date, I know that I have paid out a load in commission, I have also acknowledged that as well. But that said my blog also mentions why I dont want to trade with 10k just to lower my commission cost percentages. Im not at that stage in my trading experience yet.

Obviously the chance of returning from 5 losses is hard, But  five losses in a row at $120 a pop would result in a combined loss of $600. That would bring my trading capital down to $2300 (only $200 down on my inital amount). 10 losses in a row would be $1200 (obviously i am aware at this stage that the Risk per trade would be increasing). A $1200 would bring my capital down to $1,700, I would still be able to trade with that capital.


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## dannydb (6 March 2009)

Your planning and decision making process for each trade may be useful to write down... at least you would get some constructive comments - at worst you'd get too many comments which may end up being noise you don't need. If not on this blog, then at least in your own personal notes?


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## investorpaul (7 March 2009)

Hi Danny I do keep a personal note book on my trading, thoughts and decision process


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## elmundotrade (23 March 2009)

That would be a great idea mate....  I'm a new trader and I'm learning a lot on the process, I don't mind loosing money to get expirienced, and I think it would help a lot watching someone else experiencing trading and recording..  

I can see this is an older post, Are you still alive, around trading and surviving this current times?
...

Cheers.

Paul.
(I'm another paul trading, seems to be lots of Paul in ASF)   :jump:


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## investorpaul (30 April 2009)

Hi all,

Its been a while since I posted on my Blog and since I traded.

I guess at the moment the question is how do I balance work and trading. As some of you may know I was trading CFDs on the UK market. This is ok but I find my trading is really constrained to a couple of hours at most (I have to get some sleep). The answer to this is obviously to trade the Aussie market, which I feel more comfortable with for a number of reasons. Obviously a major benefit will be having a greater feel for the market and the companies, as I found out through trading the UK market it takes a hell of a lot of effort to keep up to date with all the news in another country. Also trading the Aussie market will mean trading at normal hours, when my brain is functioning best. Not when I have come home from work and have my brain and body winding down for the night.

Ok, so that really is problem one. How to work and trade? to compound this problem my trading style and personality as well as risk management really lend itself to intraday trading.

I have also decided to throw more capital at this, I know deep down I can do it and I have had a taste with the UK markets.

Basically I will have 10K CFD account in addition to my savings and long term portfolio so I can better follow risk management strategies and give it the attention it deserves. I have the ability to add 1.5k to this account a month as well if need be.

So does anyone else out there balance work and trading? Maybe I have to alter my trading strategy or perhaps I need to change the times/days I work, who knows.


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## investorpaul (18 May 2009)

*CFD Trades:*

I am taking the view that we will see another leg down in the stock market and hope to be entering short positions over the next couple of days/weeks when I get the technical indication to do so.

QAN, BHP and WBC short all closed.

Long BBG


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## investorpaul (20 May 2009)

New Trade (see above):

BHP - short sold - entered at $33.98


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## investorpaul (25 May 2009)

New Trade Short Westpac entered at $18.69 - I got caught out, my boss came over to give me something and the priced dropped another 10 cents by the time i entered. O well


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## investorpaul (27 July 2009)

Some of you who read my original blog would have seen that I was providing an update almost daily of the trades I made and the amount I won and/or loss. At the time I thought it would be a good way to keep track of what I was doing and to analyse my trades.

However, what I found was that I was spending considerable time writing the blog, thinking what to write and in a somewhat "stupid" action, thinking I had to trade or do something just to update the blog.

Since I stopped writing my blog, some months ago, I stopped trading because of Uni and because I discovered that I did not have enough time to day trade the UK market. I have over the last few months re-evaluated my position and got back into the markets. I am not shy to admit that my first couple of trades, since starting again, were all losers, wiping out my small profit from my original day trading and eating into my initial capital (nothing terminal, but not good none the less).

Stepping back into it, I am doing everything properly. I have the spreadsheets set up to input my entry price, automatically calculate my potential loss, profit and risk to reward. I enter the trades and set my stop losses, which follow the max 2% risk rule.

In addition I have stopped focusing on indicators, alot of my trades (when I took a hit on my account) were indicator focused and I found that I was not paying attention to the most important aspects of trading - Price and Volume. Since placing less emphasis on indicators and more on the actual price movement I have found that my trading has improved and I am now identifying more opportunities, which so far have resulted in better profits.

Another important aspect I have learnt is to distance my long term investing mind from my short term trading mind. I am still waiting for a pull back (which I think will eventuate so I can enter my long term positions) but I was previously finding that this idea of waiting for a pull back was limiting the number of short term long trades I was entering and meant I had a focus on shorting a number of stocks for a couple of weeks. I am pleased to say this crossing over/confusion with my two different strategies (long and short term) no longer exist and I am trading my short term positions without consideration as to when and how I want to enter my long term positions.

So in summary I wont be providing updates of my positions because I think it was distracting to my trading. (I am not doing this to shy away from highlighting any losses and am happy to admit that I am down slightly, although the last few trades have started to pull it back). To be honest the journey I have taken has probably been the best thing for me as I have learnt some valuable lessons without blowing my account and feel that I am improving. No doubt so more lessons will be learnt in the near future and I definitely look forward to them.


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