# Forex for Dummies



## tech/a

I couldnt find a thread this basic.

I dont need to run through Entry/Exit Risk Management etc on Forex thats to advanced!

I want to ask the really dumb/novice starter questions.

I'd like anyone who can help to answer the following.

I trade with IB with E signal live feed.

(1) What are the most liquid contracts.
(2) What are the most traded contracts---IE popular.
(3) What is the Tick value of them?
(4) What are the margin requirements / contract?
(5) What are the codes I'd log into IB? Live data feed its also fed by E signal.
(6) What are the trading times Eastern seaboard.
(7) How do you trade continuous contracts so you dont get caught having a delivery.
(8) What are the novice traps (Other than trading errors entry exit bad risk management) The sort of thing novices just dont have a clue that can bite you!

Much appreciated.
No doubt more dumb questions to come as I explore my dumbness.


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## prawn_86

*Re: FOREX for Dummies.*

Here are a few answers for you Tech, based on my limited scalping experiences.



tech/a said:


> I trade with IB with E signal live feed.
> 
> (1) What are the most liquid contracts. Generally speaking the liquid ones i know are USD/JPY, EUR/JPY, USD/EUR
> (2) What are the most traded contracts---IE popular. As above. Most liquid generally infers most traded
> (3) What is the Tick value of them? A 'tick' is actually called a 'pip' and usually it is measured in 1/10th or 1/20th of a 'cent' (depending on the apir). IE if EUR/JPY went from 162.52 -> 162.53, that is 1 pip.
> (4) What are the margin requirements / contract? Dependent on Broker. Surely its on the IB website?
> (5) What are the codes I'd log into IB? Live data feed its also fed by E signal.
> (6) What are the trading times Eastern seaboard.
> (7) How do you trade continuous contracts so you dont get caught having a delivery. Are you talking currency options? Normal currency trading wont have 'delivery'
> (8) What are the novice traps (Other than trading errors entry exit bad risk management) The sort of thing novices just dont have a clue that can bite you! Depending on your timeframe, but speed of movement is one. Ability to over leverage. I would recommend getting to know just 1 or 2 pairs. Again it really depends on what type of trading your doing though.





Hope that helps/makes sense


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## Boggo

*Re: FOREX for Dummies.*

This site covers just about everything tech/a, most of it you know but definitely worth scrolling through the pages, some good info.

http://www.babypips.com/school/the_skinny_on_forex.html


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## CanOz

*Re: FOREX for Dummies.*



tech/a said:


> I couldnt find a thread this basic.
> 
> I dont need to run through Entry/Exit Risk Management etc on Forex thats to advanced!
> 
> I want to ask the really dumb/novice starter questions.
> 
> I'd like anyone who can help to answer the following.
> 
> I trade with IB with E signal live feed.
> 
> (1) What are the most liquid contracts.
> (2) What are the most traded contracts---IE popular.
> (3) What is the Tick value of them?
> (4) What are the margin requirements / contract?
> (5) What are the codes I'd log into IB? Live data feed its also fed by E signal.
> (6) What are the trading times Eastern seaboard.
> (7) How do you trade continuous contracts so you dont get caught having a delivery.
> (8) What are the novice traps (Other than trading errors entry exit bad risk management) The sort of thing novices just dont have a clue that can bite you!
> 
> Much appreciated.
> No doubt more dumb questions to come as I explore my dumbness.




I'm sure there are other more experienced than I Tech, but i'll answer anyway, as i owe you some advice.

I'm assuming you want to trade spot FX, not futs.

1.) & 2.) The euro is or was the most highly traded, but the Yen would have to come close these days. Both are very liquid, but each session can be different.
3.) It depends on each but with the Yen for example 1 pip = 1.5333 AUD
EUR is 1.4077.
4.) Margin requirements for IB i thunk (i use Oanda now for FX) is like 1500 AUD to trade 30,000 AUD....basically 50:1 (i could be wrong on this as i can't open IB right now)
5.) codes for IB : EUR.USD-IDEALPRO-CASH
OR for the Yen USD.JPY-IDEALPRO-CASH
But for the codes, just type in the first three letter of the PAIR.
6.) FX hours: this is handy http://forex.timezoneconverter.com/index.cgi?timezone=Asia/Tokyo;
7.) In spot there are no expiry's, but you need to pay carry interest if you hold for a while.
8.) Novice traps:
a.) trading a lot size too large for their account
b.) stops too tight
c.) holding over the weekend
d.) not being able recognize and trade ranges and trends 
e.) trading to short of a time frame eg. 5 minute noise

If i think of any more of my mistakes i'll let you know.

Cheers,

CanOz


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## Cartman

*Re: FOREX for Dummies.*

with regard to (8) above Tech -----  news hitting  the wires can sometimes cause some nasty spikes so always good to know the timeframe of the news calendar and maybe stand clear ---- same site i posted on the other thread will give an overview of that and all good general info + forum  http://www.forexfactory.com/ 

or     http://www.forexsites.com/ 

demos and plenty of them i reckon --- nothing beats hands on ---
http://www.fxstreet.com/brokers/demo-account/ --- plenty to choose from

Tayser from here would be worth talking to.  im sure he'll drop in later

oh yeah ---- and Norm too ---- who is now below me lol -----


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## Stormin_Norman

*Re: FOREX for Dummies.*



> (1) What are the most liquid contracts.
> (2) What are the most traded contracts---IE popular.




1. EUR/USD
2. USD/JPY
3. GBP/USD
4. USD/CAD
5. AUD/USD



> (3) What is the Tick value of them?




reference:
http://www.forexfloor.com/ticks.html



> (4) What are the margin requirements / contract?




margin requirements can vary from 50:1 at some brokers to 400:1 at others.

contracts can be 10,000 for a mini, or 100,000 for a full contract. many brokers who do minis will let you purchase as little as 0.01 of a mini unit (100 units).



> (5) What are the codes I'd log into IB? Live data feed its also fed by E signal.




not sure what you mean by that question.



> (6) What are the trading times Eastern seaboard.




from about 7am monday morning to about 7am friday morning.




> (7) How do you trade continuous contracts so you dont get caught having a delivery



.

the contracts are automatically rolled over by the broker if you have held it for more then 2 days. 



> (8) What are the novice traps (Other than trading errors entry exit bad risk management) The sort of thing novices just dont have a clue that can bite you!




bad money management (i know you said that, but its worth repeating 10 times).
selecting a bad broker (dodgy, undercapitalised, massive spreads).
watch out for new releases. (www.forexfactory.com)


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## CanOz

*Re: FOREX for Dummies.*



Stormin_Norman said:


> watch out for new releases. (www.forexfactory.com)




Excellent point, also Trading the News....that's a no no.

Cheers,



CanOz


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## Stormin_Norman

*Re: FOREX for Dummies.*

corrections:

7am saturday (not friday)
and news, not news.

i should proof read.

and check out the site babypips


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## MS+Tradesim

*Re: FOREX for Dummies.*

tech, if you haven't already, open the paper trader account with IB. 

As I understand it you would pay to access FX data through esignal. However IB gives you live FX data for free. Just add it in your subscriptions. You can stream it directly into Amibroker. I stream into Metastock with a 3rd party plugin. 

Codes and minimum order sizes for IB are here:
http://www.interactivebrokers.com/e...?exch=ibfxpro&showcategories=FX&ib_entity=llc


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## howardbandy

*Re: FOREX for Dummies.*

Greetings all --

Some cautions when considering trading Forex:

1.  You are trading in the over-the-counter market with a counterparty.  There is no central clearing organization to help reduce the counterparty risk.

2.  You are trading against that counterparty.  They might have more staff, more equipment, and better trading systems than you do.

3.  You are trading on their bid and asked prices.  

4.  They can see your orders.

5.  If you get historical data to use to develop your trading system, get it from the firm you will be trading against.  The data you get from another source will be different.

As an alternative:

If you have a trading system that looks good on some firms Forex data, consider trading the corresponding currency futures.  You would need to revalidate your system (since the data is different), but all of the disadvantages listed above go away.

Thanks for listening,
Howard


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## MS+Tradesim

*Re: FOREX for Dummies.*

Hi Howard,

Most of those risks don't apply when trading through an ECN like Interactive Brokers. In that case you are not trading against them. They are merely broking the order into the interbank market.

But the risks you talk about are exactly why I won't trade FX with a market-maker and are valid and need to be understood, if someone chooses to use a market-maker.


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## CanOz

Agree on IB FX...but generally their seems to have been some reform in the FX markets in the last 18 months. Firms like Oanda have seemed to be up with times in smaller lot sizes, leverage selection, different order types etc., and the intraday data is THE SAME as IB, as i run them both simultaneously. 

In any case Howard, an honor to see you in this thread, perhaps you might enlighten us on any mechanical systems you might have worked through using FX data and AB?

Cheers,



CanOz


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## Stormin_Norman

OandA have a great model. 




> The spreads offered on OANDA FXTrade vary over time. OANDA is the counter-party to trades executed over FXTrade. Trades are matched, and any net exposure above predefined thresholds is hedged with partner banks at the current market spread




plus with 150+ USD million in excess capital, im quite sure im going to get my profits paid out.

people make a big deal about this dealing desk thing. im not convinced its the be all and end all when selecting a broker. 

if youre a profitable trader theyll pass the exposure on, if youre not profitable theyll personally be your counter party. 

either way, if youre not profitable, youre not profitable!

and with an ECN broker youre paying a commission - about US$6.70 for a mini contract on the euro. (http://www.mbtrading.com/forexCommissionRates.aspx)

a 10,000 lot euro contract = USD1 per pip (http://www.fxstreet.com/forex-tools/pip-value-calculator/)

so the commission charged to place your trade = 6.7 pips. that's quite a spread.


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## barney

CanOz said:


> and the intraday data is THE SAME as IB, as i run them both simultaneously.




That is certainly a good sign, thanks Can.



CanOz said:


> In any case Howard, an honor to see you in this thread, perhaps you might enlighten us on any mechanical systems you might have worked through using FX data and AB?
> Cheers,
> 
> CanOz




A link for those interested which amplifies/expands on what Howard was saying.  Cheers.

http://www.traderslog.com/forex-currency-futures.htm


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## MS+Tradesim

Stormin_Norman said:


> and with an ECN broker youre paying a commission - about US$6.70 for a mini contract on the euro. (http://www.mbtrading.com/forexCommissionRates.aspx)
> 
> a 10,000 lot euro contract = USD1 per pip (http://www.fxstreet.com/forex-tools/pip-value-calculator/)
> 
> so the commission charged to place your trade = 6.7 pips. that's quite a spread.




IB charge 0.2 of a pip with a minimum US$2. But you don't get to trade micros and minis with them. And I regularly see 0.5-1.0 pip spreads on EURUSD.


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## Stormin_Norman

that sounds much more reasonable.

i am almost up to the point of trading full contracts with my account. do you have to trade in full contract amounts? (ie 100k, 200k etc)


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## MS+Tradesim

Stormin_Norman said:


> that sounds much more reasonable.
> 
> i am almost up to the point of trading full contracts with my account. do you have to trade in full contract amounts? (ie 100k, 200k etc)




No, but there are minimums. Check the link I posted above.


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## kam75

I'm interested to hear from any trader here that makes money consistently trading Forex.  For example every week or every month for the past few years.  

Studied babypips.com but not inpressed.  Their trading system is without doubt a sure way to lose your dough - moving averages only work in hindsight.


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## Stormin_Norman

i make 50-100% consistently each month.

babypips was more to answer questions, rather then obtain a trading plan. they really have to be done yourself, with some research and trial and error.


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## lesm

*Re: FOREX for Dummies.*



MS+Tradesim said:


> Hi Howard,
> 
> Most of those risks don't apply when trading through an ECN like Interactive Brokers. In that case you are not trading against them. They are merely broking the order into the interbank market.



MS,

You raise an interesting point.

Although you are not trading against an MM (the broker per se), it is still effectively an OTC market, without a central clearing house.

Dependent on group of banks that make up an ECNs set of liquidity providers there may be liquidity issues that can create periods of wider spreads and/or periods of low trading activity.

For scalpers and intraday traders 'speed of execution' and 'liquidity' are key factors.

If you compare the Asian session (inclusive of New Zealand, Sydney  and Tokyo) with the London or New York sessions or the respective overlap periods there are significant differences in the levels of liquidity.

Observe the market, spreads and the level of liquidity when the banks are closed for holidays or when they (or the big boys) are moving their orders around.

Cheers.


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## lesm

*Re: FOREX for Dummies.*



CanOz said:


> Excellent point, also Trading the News....that's a no no.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> CanOz




Hi Can,

Why? This is one where I would tend to agree and disagree.

Having started off in Fx avoiding the news release periods like the plague. Later found that by being selective it could be worked with a high degree of success. Either taking a position just prior to the news release or shortly thereafter. Sometimes you can see the pressure building up pre-release, which give some additional clues, but you always need to be aware of the potential for surprises.

Besides the main news releases you can also find that more localised news can cause some sudden movements or changes in direction.

How are you finding Oanda?

Have a colleague using them exclusively, but during some sessions the widened spreads cause him to wait till they narrow up again.

Cheers.


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## Stormin_Norman

trading during the news (large positions, short term) is like putting money on the roulette wheel.

the news itself can cause some nice trends to jump on however (before and after the announcement).

eg, on wed/thurs the GBP should trend downwards as the bank of england is expected to cut rates. i guess we'll see if it does trend like that but entering just for the news is fraught with risk.


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## lesm

Stormin_Norman said:


> trading during the news (large positions, short term) is like putting money on the roulette wheel.
> 
> the news itself can cause some nice trends to jump on however (before and after the announcement).
> 
> eg, on wed/thurs the GBP should trend downwards as the bank of england is expected to cut rates. i guess we'll see if it does trend like that but entering just for the news is fraught with risk.




It is all fraught with risk to varying degrees, but it is not trading news for the sake of trading news.

Consider the following, based on the expected BOE rate cut.

1. No change.
2. Rate cut as forecast.
3. Rate cut less than forecast.
4. Rate cut greater than forecast.

It is highly unlikey that they will increase the rate, but that is the fifth option for completeness. Now that would be a surprise.

Based on the four options above, what would you expect the market (price) direction to be for each.

Then, as a separate exercise factor in that the futures market expects that the rate cut will be greater than the forecast cut and option 2 has been realised. This would require waiting for the news to be released to know the actual rate cut.

It then comes down to taking a position prior to or after the news release. How soon after the release is up to the individual trader.

There are traders who specialise in trading news events and one would expect that they understand the risks.

Remember, not all currency traders are necessarily pure technical traders and it doesn't hurt to have an understanding of macro economics when you trade currency.

PS: Apologies, if I appear to be hijacking your thread tech/a


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## tech/a

> PS: Apologies, if I appear to be hijacking your thread tech/a




Not at all.
All discussion for me is good discussion thanks everyone and keep it up.


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## Stormin_Norman

even though i did my thesis on a monetary economics topic, i dont try and predict what the market will do with the interest rate announcements.

i just wait for my trading plan to signal an entry and go with it.

like u said, there are a lot of aspects to the movement of exchange rates, its almost too hard to pick. i just concentrate on the plan and the price.

the rest of my thoughts are purely speculation and have little bearing on my trades.


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## kam75

Stormin_Norman said:


> i make 50-100% consistently each month.
> 
> babypips was more to answer questions, rather then obtain a trading plan. they really have to be done yourself, with some research and trial and error.




Many thanks for your reply Stormin_Norman.  If I can ask you, what tools or resources did you use to develop your system?


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## CanOz

*Re: FOREX for Dummies.*



lesm said:


> Hi Can,
> 
> Why? This is one where I would tend to agree and disagree.
> 
> Having started off in Fx avoiding the news release periods like the plague. Later found that by being selective it could be worked with a high degree of success. Either taking a position just prior to the news release or shortly thereafter. Sometimes you can see the pressure building up pre-release, which give some additional clues, but you always need to be aware of the potential for surprises.
> 
> Besides the main news releases you can also find that more localised news can cause some sudden movements or changes in direction.
> 
> How are you finding Oanda?
> 
> Have a colleague using them exclusively, but during some sessions the widened spreads cause him to wait till they narrow up again.
> 
> Cheers.




Agree with your points too Lesm, once you get to learn the fundementals of FX then you can guage whether or not you want to stay in a position or not usually before the news. My point was more directed at specifically trading huge news events like NFP or something like that, i cannot see how you could make a strategy around that, altought some claim that they have.

Another good poiint is that the fundementals of a pair can play a great part in the establishment of the fundemental trend, which can be a bit of an edge as well. 

FX is great for teaching and learning macro economics. Altought i still consider myself a very poor FX trader, the lessons it has taught me in regards to intermarket analysis are very valuable.

Cheers,



CanOz


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## Stormin_Norman

first off i blew 2 accounts trying to be a fundamentalist with poor cash management.

then i started again with some demo accounts, which i traded for the best part of a year; trying various systems people suggested on different forums.

the main thing i got from them was learning about all the main indicators.

then i started using two simple indicators (MA+stochastic) which worked for me and developed a plan with 2 rules for entry and 1 rule for exit.

once i thought it would work, i funded my third $1000 account. from that initial account im now up to $350k in working capital in about 18 months.


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## Stormin_Norman

*Re: FOREX for Dummies.*



CanOz said:


> FX is great for teaching and learning macro economics. Altought i still consider myself a very poor FX trader, the lessons it has taught me in regards to intermarket analysis are very valuable.




i have an honours degree in economics (monetary speciality). FX has taught me markets are more technical then fundemental. or at least just because i think something will happen, doesnt mean the markets will.

i love speculating what will happen fundamentally, but wont trade on it.


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## CanOz

Stormin_Norman said:


> first off i blew 2 accounts trying to be a fundamentalist with poor cash management.
> 
> then i started again with some demo accounts, which i traded for the best part of a year; trying various systems people suggested on different forums.
> 
> the main thing i got from them was learning about all the main indicators.
> 
> then i started using two simple indicators (MA+stochastic) which worked for me and developed a plan with 2 rules for entry and 1 rule for exit.
> 
> once i thought it would work, i funded my third $1000 account. from that initial account im now up to $350k in working capital in about 18 months.




Struth, well done Stormin! 

I like the MA stoch thingy, sounds robust!

CanOz


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## Rockon2

Glad you started this thread Tech/A  ,, should be a good learner.

I have only traded  the aud/usd  on IG mkts. and only when ive usually been 
bored and cant find anything else to trade..
Ive traded it using 5 min charts for very short time frames, and have used same rules I would use trading any other index on that time frame...
( I'm wondering if the others do the same? ) 
IE: trade breaks n patterns... Supps n Resists ? 


One thing that has come to light ( for me anyway ) is a daily of the aud/usd
is a v good precurser to the xjo.,,,,  

Anyway, look foreward to some good postings in here..


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## Rockon2

*Re: FOREX for Dummies.*



Stormin_Norman said:


> i love speculating what will happen fundamentally, but wont trade on it.






Spot On Normin................


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## Stormin_Norman

here's a screen shot my trading system for the past couple of days on the skippy (AUDUSD). its not rocket science.

green vertical lines are buys, red vertical lines are sells.


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## Cartman

Stormin_Norman said:


> first off i blew 2 accounts trying to be a fundamentalist with poor cash management.
> 
> then i started again with some demo accounts, which i traded for the best part of a year; trying various systems people suggested on different forums.
> 
> the main thing i got from them was learning about all the main indicators.
> 
> then i started using two simple indicators (MA+stochastic) which worked for me and developed a plan with 2 rules for entry and 1 rule for exit.
> 
> once i thought it would work, i funded my third $1000 account. from that initial account im now up to $350k in working capital in about 18 months.





like to think im on the same road as u Norm --- exept im still 18 months behind you  lol ---    well done --

i assume yr not using an ECN broker??   if not, do you get any grief from the MM's or do u just spread the accounts around to keep them off yr back

do u take yr actual entries off the 5 min chart or drop down a size or two ?  Cheers.


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## Stormin_Norman

OandA + IG markets. that screen shot is from IG.

5 minute time frames.


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## Wysiwyg

Stormin_Norman said:


> here's a screen shot my trading system for the past couple of days on the skippy (AUDUSD). its not rocket science.
> 
> green vertical lines are buys, red vertical lines are sells.




Ummm, you have a chart of an indicator and an oscillator but no graphic example of a trading system.


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## Stormin_Norman

it shouldnt be hard to figure out from that and other posts ive made.


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## MS+Tradesim

Fantastic work Norman. I'm about to start forward testing a double system which uses ADX, PDI and MDI for trend following and my own oscillator for trading rangebound markets. It should expect about 25%/mth. I'll get back in 6mths to update on it. But it has tested well across very different market conditions.

I've tried discretionary trading on FX but it just doesn't suit me. I need the absolute parameters of a mechanical system.


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## Wysiwyg

Stormin_Norman said:


> it shouldnt be hard to figure out from that and other posts ive made.





then i started using two simple indicators (MA+stochastic) which worked for me and developed a plan with 2 rules for entry and 1 rule for exit.


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## Stormin_Norman

nice! im working with a programmer to put together a auto trader too.

i expect this simple system to work across all markets as well. from currency, to commodities to stocks.


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## Stormin_Norman

Wysiwyg said:


> then i started using two simple indicators (MA+stochastic) which worked for me and developed a plan with 2 rules for entry and 1 rule for exit.




i look for the trend. in this case it was up. so im looking to buy in the dips. the stochastic indicates when the market is oversold. when its moving out of oversold and clears the 20 mark on a closed candle i enter.


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## BentRod

> once i thought it would work, i funded my third $1000 account. from that initial account im now up to $350k in working capital in about 18 months.




Great achievement Norm!

Is that Pro Realtime your using???

How do you find it?


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## Stormin_Norman

yeah it is.

its ok. a chart's a chart.


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## lesm

Wysiwyg said:


> Ummm, you have a chart of an indicator and an oscillator but no graphic example of a trading system.




He actually does. It is quite simple to translate. Look at the oscillator and where the green and red vertical lines are.

Working out the exits is straightforward You can actually remove the MA from the chart it's just a form of a reference point and provides a visual on the overall trend.

Good systems are usually simple systems, no need for complexity.


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## Cartman

Wysiwyg said:


> Ummm, you have a chart of an indicator and an oscillator but no graphic example of a trading system.





hey Wys   Norm has no reason to tell us his exact entry/exit criteria ---- but the chart pretty much tells us anyway ---

Norm, definitely chasing similar patterns to u -- have u tested trading the counter trends on a lower time frame- --
part of the same chart below --- i would have taken a short term short on the failed spike with the dropping momentum before looking for another long --- testing on this so far is proving pretty good  ---- RR is obviously not as good but i would just keep the current long position open and trade the short on the counter ---- then close the short ---- just a slightly different attack.


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## Stormin_Norman

too complicated for me cartman. although i do follow your logic. 

i entered on the hour and got hit by that short you mentioned seeing on the 1 second chart.

just waiting for my SL to get hit now


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## lesm

Stormin_Norman said:


> nice! im working with a programmer to put together a auto trader too.
> 
> i expect this simple system to work across all markets as well. from currency, to commodities to stocks.




It can be applied aross multiple markets, just need to manage the false or failed signals that may occur, which is straightforward.


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## Cartman

Stormin_Norman said:


> too complicated for me cartman. although i do follow your logic.





no ones ever called me logical b4  lol  -- is that an insult 

u have no need to test any further if u have a working system anyway ---- so well done.


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## Stormin_Norman

yeah, i was mentioning my efforts, but i believe yours would too.

false signals are sorted by the stop loss. cant be right all the time.


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## Cartman

Stormin_Norman said:


> just waiting for my SL to get hit now




actually that 1st chart was from part of your trade yesterday --- 

but the one that hit the AUS just now was very similar  (gotta love patterns) -- only more aggressive ---

my *logicality* might be useful as an exit strategy for yr longs if nothing else


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## Stormin_Norman

dont mess with my head (system) cartman. just let me take my loss :


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## Cartman

Stormin_Norman said:


> dont mess with my head (system) cartman. just let me take my loss :




haha -- sorry  

its bouncing back now-- dont ya hate that --- still reckon it looks a little strained in the short term though


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## CanOz

There are heaps of tradable systems around. Theres another called the three ducks system, from this guy called Captain Currency, and its on his blog. I have a link http://captaincurrency.blogspot.com/2007/11/3-ducks-trading-system-ebook.html

Its pretty simple, but that said i haven't tried it yet.

Cheers,


CanOz


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## Glen48

For those of you who say news items spike the markets:
From Money Morning:
In their recent paper titled Stock price jumps: news and volume play a minor role, physicists Armand Joulin, Augustin Lefevre, Daniel Grunberg and Jean-Philippe Bouchaud found no correlation between news items and the responses of stocks. They analysed the news feeds from both Dow Jones and Reuters (the major sources of information for financial analysts and journalists) and examined the correlation between hundreds of instruments and some 90,000 news items over a two-year period.

Their conclusion was there was no link between jumps in instrument pricing and news items. Most changes were not directly attributable to any news item at all and the majority of news items caused no change in instrument pricing at all.

comments please?
I thought Gold would go up not down after the Gaza fighting.


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## Stormin_Norman

stocks arent currencies.

gold is down for technical and deflationary reasons.


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## Cartman

Glen48 said:


> For those of you who say news items spike the markets:
> From Money Morning:
> In their recent paper titled Stock price jumps: news and volume play a minor role, physicists Armand Joulin, Augustin Lefevre, Daniel Grunberg and Jean-Philippe Bouchaud found no correlation between news items and the responses of stocks. They analysed the news feeds from both Dow Jones and Reuters (the major sources of information for financial analysts and journalists) and examined the correlation between hundreds of instruments and some 90,000 news items over a two-year period.
> 
> Their conclusion was there was no link between jumps in instrument pricing and news items. Most changes were not directly attributable to any news item at all and the majority of news items caused no change in instrument pricing at all.
> 
> comments please?
> I thought Gold would go up not down after the Gaza fighting.




Glen -- u gotta give up smoking ---- it'll stunt yr growth 

my humble grain of salt opinion on news ---- whatever you think the news should do to a currency and even index --- trade the opposite ---- but only for about 60 seconds after the news hits -- then get out quick    --- that'll work 50% of the time


----------



## Stormin_Norman

Cartman said:


> Glen -- u gotta give up smoking ---- it'll stunt yr growth
> 
> my humble grain of salt opinion on news ---- whatever you think the news should do to a currency and even index --- trade the opposite ---- but only for about 60 seconds after the news hits -- then get out quick    --- *that'll work 50% of the time*




all my money on black please.


----------



## BentRod

> Their conclusion was there was no link between jumps in instrument pricing and news items. Most changes were not directly attributable to any news item at all and the majority of news items caused no change in instrument pricing at all.




They should trade the NFP this Friday :


----------



## Cartman

Stormin_Norman said:


> all my money on black please.




lol ----- my tongue was firmly in my cheek Norm 

interesting position on the AUS/USD now ---- should theoretically have another crack at the last short term high but could be getting a little top heavy (short term)


----------



## Stormin_Norman

i know you did. hence my comment on having all my money on black  its probably a better chance actually then trading the news.

often post and pre news will create a nice trend, but the crazy jumping all over the shop during news isnt for me.

my stop loss is just below 71. had a lucky life on that bounce. be interesting to see where it ends up.


----------



## Cartman

Stormin_Norman said:


> i know you did. hence my comment on having all my money on black
> 
> my stop loss is just below 71. had a lucky life on that bounce. be interesting to see where it ends up.




i knew u knew  ----- 

ps  no need to tell me that u knew that i  knew that u knew ---- 

cause i already know that!

hope 71 holds for ya -- looked like a fair bit of buying came in down there so the next low cycle will prob tell the story


----------



## lesm

Glen48 said:


> For those of you who say news items spike the markets:
> From Money Morning:
> In their recent paper titled Stock price jumps: news and volume play a minor role, physicists Armand Joulin, Augustin Lefevre, Daniel Grunberg and Jean-Philippe Bouchaud found no correlation between news items and the responses of stocks. They analysed the news feeds from both Dow Jones and Reuters (the major sources of information for financial analysts and journalists) and examined the correlation between hundreds of instruments and some 90,000 news items over a two-year period.
> 
> Their conclusion was there was no link between jumps in instrument pricing and news items. Most changes were not directly attributable to any news item at all and the majority of news items caused no change in instrument pricing at all.
> 
> comments please?
> I thought Gold would go up not down after the Gaza fighting.




It's all a figment of the imagination 

They were not watching the currency markets when the Lehman's news came out on Reuters or the subsequent updates, but then they are talking about stocks.

Sounds like we can ignore the news Bentrod, NFP, PPI, rate changes, etc., will have no affect.


----------



## lesm

Norman....good to see that you have been doing well.

Thought I would throw up some testing stats as to the potential of the basic method that Norman is using, with some refinements.

The fundamental basis is the same, but:

1. The stoch settings are different
2. Scaling in and out is being applied
3. Additional supporting pattern analysis is being used
4. Daily pivots are being used, as reference points.

This was a refinement to an earlier system that I was having some consistency issues with. Took a few days to adapt to it, but it clicked into gear. The tests were conducted during August and September last year and the system is now being used live.

All individual trades are 1 std contract. 

The main sessions being traded are the London and London / New York overlap.

Trading is restricted to four pairs: aud/usd, eur/gbp, eur/usd and gbp/usd.

Cheers.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

what's the conclusion?


----------



## CanOz

That looks like quite a high win rate. Do you have a cumulative equity curve as well, not just the daily trades?

Cheers,


CanOz


----------



## hotbmw

so guys does that mean for a mere $1000 micro account i can trade 50 times that = $50,000. 

if i got it wrong and the trade went the other way by say 3% before closing out i owe $1500 even though i started with $1000 only? is that right?

or if i made a good buy and i closed out with a 5% gain, i would make $2500 with only an initial outlay of $1000.

is that how it works?

is there any interest payments or monthly fees of any sort if i hold a trade for months without closing out? any fees of any osrt?


----------



## MS+Tradesim

Hi Les,

Those stats are interesting. I've been testing Norman's idea too but I get nothing like your results. I must be misunderstanding something very simple.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

hotbmw said:


> so guys does that mean for a mere $1000 micro account i can trade 50 times that = $50,000.
> 
> if i got it wrong and the trade went the other way by say 3% before closing out i owe $1500 even though i started with $1000 only? is that right?
> 
> or if i made a good buy and i closed out with a 5% gain, i would make $2500 with only an initial outlay of $1000.
> 
> is that how it works?
> 
> is there any interest payments or monthly fees of any sort if i hold a trade for months without closing out? any fees of any osrt?




you can only lose what u have deposited. youll get a margin call and have your positions closed before then.

you sound like youre looking at overleveraging. only lose 5% max per trade.

u do get swap rates for long term trades. which can also 'cost' you if youre on the lower interest rate side of the trade.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

MS+Tradesim said:


> Hi Les,
> 
> Those stats are interesting. I've been testing Norman's idea too but I get nothing like your results. I must be misunderstanding something very simple.




we're finding difficulties with the automation too; not having human intuition as part of the computer trading is difficult.

we're looking at the slope of the MA line atm to see if that helps some.


----------



## hotbmw

Stormin_Norman said:


> you can only lose what u have deposited. youll get a margin call and have your positions closed before then.
> 
> you sound like youre looking at overleveraging. only lose 5% max per trade.
> 
> u do get swap rates for long term trades. which can also 'cost' you if youre on the lower interest rate side of the trade.




hey stormin. thanks for your reply mate.

so say i open an account for $5000. instead of investing $250,000 i invest $50,000. 
not that i would do this but does that mean my trade would need to go bad by the tune of 10% before im closed out?

where can i find info on swap rates for IB? is it expensive?


----------



## MS+Tradesim

Stormin_Norman said:


> we're finding difficulties with the automation too; not having human intuition as part of the computer trading is difficult.
> 
> we're looking at the slope of the MA line atm to see if that helps some.




Be very careful with using slope/degrees. It's arbitrary based on the time/price scale. eg. It might "look" like a 20 degree slope but zoom in or out on the chart and the angle will change. You may already know that and have a constant to base it against, but just thought I'd point it out in case you didn't already know. 

One way around that problem might be to use a rate of change of an MA or rate of change of a linear regression slope.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

MS+Tradesim said:


> Be very careful with using slope/degrees. It's arbitrary based on the time/price scale. eg. It might "look" like a 20 degree slope but zoom in or out on the chart and the angle will change. You may already know that and have a constant to base it against, but just thought I'd point it out in case you didn't already know.
> 
> One way around that problem might be to use a rate of change of an MA or rate of change of a linear regression slope.




that's what i meant. the 5 period slope of the MA line.


----------



## lesm

CanOz said:


> That looks like quite a high win rate. Do you have a cumulative equity curve as well, not just the daily trades?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 
> CanOz




Agreed, Keep in mind it's only over 375 trades (with a win rate of 73%) needs to be over at least a 1000 or more to see if it holds up through time.

We (myself and two other colleagues) were testing a number of approaches at the time and this was one of the more positive ones.

Haven't calculated the curve, but happy to send you a copy of the raw data if you want to analyse it. I use Oanda for testing purposes only, so you will be familiar with the format.

Using a combination of price/patterns/stochs appears to strengthen it, rather than the just the stochs in isolation. The scaling in and out with additional contracts, when it is warranted, does have an accelerating and positive effect.

I have seen people try to use stochs or other indicators in isolation and a lot of them fail long term. That doesn't mean particular individuals cannot do it. Some people just seem to be able to interpret and apply particular indicators in a way that works for them. There may be some subconcious or intuitive factors coming into play.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

do u use support/resistance?

how do u look to program that?


----------



## lesm

tech/a,

You may be interested in taking out a free subscription to Currency Trader magazine:

http://www.currencytradermag.com/subscribe/index.php

It provides a range of information on currencies, as well as statistics that you may find of interest.

Can drop 18 months worth of back issues on a CD and mail them to you if you like. Too big to email.

Cheers.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

that mag would be good if it wasnt 2/3rds advertisements.


----------



## BentRod

Lesm,
        Are those stats from Oanda trades?

How did you get them into excel?

cheers


----------



## Cartman

lesm said:


> Using a combination of price/patterns/stochs appears to strengthen it, rather than the just the stochs in isolation. The scaling in and out with additional contracts, when it is warranted, does have an accelerating and positive effect.
> 
> I have seen people try to use stochs or other indicators in isolation and a lot of them fail long term. That doesn't mean particular individuals cannot do it. Some people just seem to be able to interpret and apply particular indicators in a way that works for them. There may be some subconcious or intuitive factors coming into play.




hey Les  (and Norm) as ive said b4 i know nothing about coding etc etc ---- but re the entries via Stochastics  which eventually fail scenario --- 

there must ??  be a way to filter that problem out by  ---- for eg ---- the entry on the low Stoch position is only taken when on *a higher time* frame the short MA is above the longer MA  etc etc ----  if u get my drift -- i drift a lot lol  ---- 

the higher time frame may then be filtered by yet a higher time frame (if possible when coding ??) --- to eliminate false entries --- 

kinda all depends on the time frame each person is trading in as well --- 

that is why i forward test my ideas --- correct coding for back testing must be a nightmare


----------



## Stormin_Norman

we look at a higher timeframe for exits. could be an interesting thought for entries too. i will stew on it more.

has anyone successfully coded resistance/support?


----------



## Cartman

Stormin_Norman said:


> we look at a higher timeframe for exits. could be an interesting thought for entries too. i will stew on it more.
> 
> has anyone successfully coded resistance/support?




yeah i think entries prob deserve a lot more attention than many give creedence to ---- after all -- the entry is the most vulnerable part of the trade ---- thats why i like to scale in -- which i know u do as well Norm --- but how the heck u guys code this stuff is beyond me  ---- good luck with it


----------



## Stormin_Norman

no exits dont get the attention they deserve. everyone thinks entry. noone thinks exit.


----------



## Cartman

Stormin_Norman said:


> no exits dont get the attention they deserve. everyone thinks entry. noone thinks exit.




not gonna argue with ya Norm --- im still 18 months behind ya on that road  

actually i imagine coding either would equally as difficult --- the only thing i was thinking from a traders pov. is that if the trade is in profit the exit can be a bit less painful (even if a bit off) than if u r stopped out too early with a crook entry --


----------



## CanOz

Stormin_Norman said:


> no exits dont get the attention they deserve. everyone thinks entry. noone thinks exit.




Quite often thats where i give back my profit too, not having took one earlier i have my TP too high, now trying to set a little lower at stronger resistance, not at the outside of candle tails, but closer to the close. Quite often i was finding the price would retest and by that time i have moved my stop to BE and get stopped out.

CanOz


----------



## Stormin_Norman

is closing a position a specific exit strategy? or is it an opposite 'entry'?


----------



## Cartman

Stormin_Norman said:


> is closing a position a specific exit strategy? or is it an opposite 'entry'?




nah --- an exit should be a *take profit strategy* (or at least a substantial part thereof )  ----- just my opinion though


----------



## CanOz

Cartman said:


> nah --- an exit should be a *take profit strategy* (or at least a substantial part thereof )  ----- just my opinion though




It can be either. For example if you were using an indicator to assist in entries then you can use the same to assist in exits. Generally i use support of resistance to exit or at least move the trailing stop.

CanOz


----------



## Cartman

CanOz said:


> It can be either. For example if you were using an indicator to assist in entries then you can use the same to assist in exits. Generally i use support of resistance to exit or at least move the trailing stop.
> 
> CanOz




hey Can ---- the thing about exits on FX is, because its so cyclical u cant be 'hanging around' to see if the next leg up is gona happen ---- just my opinion of course --- but much better to take 2/3's the profit (if u have any   --- and let the rest ride out the consolidation phase of the cycle and hopefully continue with the trend (trail yr stop) ----- once proven u can always enter again -- but alway good to lock in some profit ------ others may disagree of course


----------



## Stormin_Norman

i call take profits 'stop profits'.


----------



## tayser

no-one's mentioned it yet, however:

Buy this book:

http://www.moneybags.com.au/default.asp?d=0&t=1&id=5016&c=0&a=74







It's very good for teaching you the mechanics of how the market works - there's no trading plans etc to get out of the book, it's purely for immersing yourself with the terminology et al.

Trading systems?  Start on forexfactory.com - many many many many many free ones out there.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

definitely dont pay for a trading system.


----------



## tayser

I've paid to attend workshops and I've got a heck of a lot out of them.

By the way: there are no decent Australian Forex brokers, we're a black hole in the FX broking world.

Currenex now lets you open lite accounts with a min $2500 opening (broker dependent) - this is basically leapfrogging all the bull**** market makers and hokey pokey brokers in one.


----------



## CanOz

Cartman said:


> hey Can ---- the thing about exits on FX is, because its so cyclical u cant be 'hanging around' to see if the next leg up is gona happen ---- just my opinion of course --- but much better to take 2/3's the profit (if u have any   --- and let the rest ride out the consolidation phase of the cycle and hopefully continue with the trend (trail yr stop) ----- once proven u can always enter again -- but alway good to lock in some profit ------ others may disagree of course




I guess thats the trick for me, to take profits or try and let them run. You say take 2/3 rds and Stormin says (i think you're saying) let them run.

Thanks for the link Tayser.

Cheers,


CanOz


----------



## Cartman

Stormin_Norman said:


> i call take profits 'stop profits'.




is it possible to code take 2/3's profits let 1/3 run with a trailer??  ---- 

if its an AE  system it should pick up on the next entry anyway yes? (that is a question not a statement   ----- 

interesting exercise to see which method provided the best results over time -- 

FX just seems a bit too fickle to try chasing outlier trades/absolute tops/bottoms etc  when the meat is in the middle of the cycle ---- and it cycles very regularly --

as i say though my opinion only and based on less proven data than what u have Norm

Cana,  i kinda believe the bird in the hand scenario --- but that may be totally wrong for an AE system -- particularly if it has compounded the position and hits the *big move*


----------



## Stormin_Norman

tayser said:


> Currenex now lets you open lite accounts with a min $2500 opening (broker dependent) - this is basically leapfrogging all the bull**** market makers and hokey pokey brokers in one.




everyone's a market maker in forex.

the ECN is a great marketing myth for the retail trader.

there are only good brokers with good capital behind them, and dodgy 2 bob ones.

the majority of respectable brokers neutralise positions and hedge the remaining exposure to another player in the market.


----------



## lesm

Stormin_Norman said:


> do u use support/resistance?



Yes.



> how do u look to program that?




Would need to give that some thought, as this may be constrained by the platform you are using. You may need the ability to draw the s/r lines on a chart, this can be automated, and then reference the chart from the program.

A similar question has been raised related to automating the detection of trendline breaches on the Ninja Trader forum. The response to date has been that it is on the list of possible development candidates for NT7, as it requires the ability to reference the chart from NT, which is not currently available for strategies.


----------



## CanOz

Cartman said:


> Cana,  i kinda believe the bird in the hand scenario --- but that may be totally wrong for an AE system -- particularly if it has compounded the position and hits the *big move*




All good points Cartman, and to me this is where FX differs the most from other markets is the propensity of reversion to mean or cycles as you say. I guess thats where Lesm's testing is handy as it can highlight the difference in performance with different exits. 

At the end of the day, its to do with time frame as well. If your daytrading then getting out sooner may be the way to go but if your position trading then you may hang on longer. This is highlighted in the 3 duck system as well.

Cheers,


CanOz


----------



## CanOz

lesm said:


> Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> Would need to give that some thought, as this may be constrained by the platform you are using. You may need the ability to draw the s/r lines on a chart, this can be automated, and then reference the chart from the program.
> 
> A similar question has been raised related to automating the detection of trendline breaches on the Ninja Trader forum. The response to date has been that it is on the list of possible development candidates for NT7, as it requires the ability to reference the chart from NT, which is not currently available for strategies.




S&R is coded into pattern explorer for AB Lesm, have you used Pattern Explorer? I think you can view the coding too.

CanOz


----------



## CanOz

A 3 duck entry on the EURJPY this arvo.

CanOz


----------



## lesm

BentRod said:


> Lesm,
> Are those stats from Oanda trades?
> 
> How did you get them into excel?
> 
> cheers




BentRod,

Yes.

I set the format to CSV after selecting the Format tab from within the Full Transaction History Section, then copy and paste the transaction history information into Notepad and save it as '.csv' file.

Then I open it up in excel and copy and append the transactions to the existing transactions in the master excel workbook I have set up for analysing trade activity.


A more detailed explanation below:

From within your Oanda Account

Select Account--->

then select Full Transaction History--->

then select Format Tab
Click on the ----> CSV Radio Button

Then select and copy the list of displayed transactions into Notepad and save the file as a ".csv" file.

This assumes that you have set up the range filter under the Range tab for the transaction period that you are interested in.

Cheers.


----------



## CanOz

Also mentioned in the 3 duck system is that if the pair is trading in a range, then keep profit targets more conservative (reversion to mean is more probable). Where as if the pair is in a strong trend then you could be more agressive with trailing stops/profit targets. I like this, it makes sense and its not that hard to tell when the pairs get stuck in a range. As Cartman says, its frequent.

CanOz


----------



## >Apocalypto<

Stormin_Norman said:


> first off i blew 2 accounts trying to be a fundamentalist with poor cash management.
> 
> then i started again with some demo accounts, which i traded for the best part of a year; trying various systems people suggested on different forums.
> 
> the main thing i got from them was learning about all the main indicators.
> 
> then i started using two simple indicators (MA+stochastic) which worked for me and developed a plan with 2 rules for entry and 1 rule for exit.
> 
> once i thought it would work, i funded my third $1000 account. from that initial account im now up to $350k in working capital in about 18 months.




at 3500% in 18 months mate you out performed every major fund.

why dont you work for a fund you would be head trader on 2 million+ a year in no time.

I am very impressed also doing that with out taking a 100K lot.......

(by working cap u mean your free cash or what u can trade to?)

WOW


----------



## lesm

CanOz said:


> S&R is coded into pattern explorer for AB Lesm, have you used Pattern Explorer? I think you can view the coding too.
> 
> CanOz




Hi Can,

No, haven't used Pattern Explorer, but from memory AB provides the ability to cross-reference charts. Will need to read the relevant section of the manual again.

Have both AB and NT and for some things prefer NT and others AB. Not sure, but MT4 may be able to do this as well. It will be constrained by platform functionality/capability though.

Cheers.


----------



## lesm

Stormin_Norman said:


> that mag would be good if it wasnt 2/3rds advertisements.




Agree about the ads, but then that's what probably pays to make it free. Some of the stats are useful and cheaper than doing it yourself.

Cheers.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

>Apocalypto< said:


> at 3500% in 18 months mate you out performed every major fund.
> 
> why dont you work for a fund you would be head trader on 2 million+ a year in no time.
> 
> I am very impressed also doing that with out taking a 100K lot.......
> 
> (by working cap u mean your free cash or what u can trade to?)
> 
> WOW




if u know someone at a major fund who'd like to pay me 2 mil without a non compete clause let them know where they can find me 

i plan to do my own fund once i get some more time under my belt. this last year with the long massive moves might not be sustainable. 

oil and commodities going through the roof, then crashing down again.

the yen rising like a cake.

the aussie tanking with commodities.

all these were massive movements which made a lot of money. i dont think thatll happen every year.

i take 100k+ lots, just do it on a mini account (ie 10 mini contracts).

and my working capital i mean my money in the bank. atm i only have $5k in 2 brokers having cleared it all out at the end of the year.

i will run those at higher risk however, knowing i can top them up if i need to. im running my trade loss figures as if theyre 20k accounts, not 5k.


----------



## CanOz

Stopped out of my 3 duck trade. But moved the stop and cut the loss by half before it got hit. Now to wait for another....perhaps i should obey the first rule and only trade from London on?

Cheers,


CnaOz


----------



## Stormin_Norman

short cable. NOW!


----------



## BentRod

> at 3500% in 18 months mate you out performed every major fund.




Its 35,000% isn't it?

Even better than Zangers world record if that's the case

Great effort regardless.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

BentRod said:


> Its 35,000% isn't it?
> 
> Even better than Zangers world record if that's the case
> 
> Great effort regardless.




its a world record?! where do i go to claim it?

surely not?

ive seen people turn $300 into $100,000.

hope some of u took that long on the USD which just came through.


----------



## >Apocalypto<

Stormin_Norman said:


> short cable. NOW!




took the eur/usd out with 24


----------



## nunthewiser

intresting stuff i must say


----------



## Stormin_Norman

>Apocalypto< said:


> took the eur/usd out with 24




+$2000 in record time.

what caused that? anyone know?

bank of japan playing silly buggars?


----------



## tech/a

Hmmm.

*Spoke to soon.*

What started out as very informative for us beginners has become a trading blah blah blog.
I'll start version 2 so you guys have somewhere to chat!

Thanks for the relevent info contributed for us Dummies.
I wasn't expecting an exhibition of Dummy type posts.
No I havent spat the Dummy


----------



## >Apocalypto<

Stormin_Norman said:


> +$2000 in record time.
> 
> what caused that? anyone know?
> 
> bank of japan playing silly buggars?




no idea,

I looked at the news could;d not see anything that really jumped out

E/$ still coming off


----------



## >Apocalypto<

Stormin_Norman said:


> if u know someone at a major fund who'd like to pay me 2 mil without a non compete clause let them know where they can find me
> 
> i plan to do my own fund once i get some more time under my belt. this last year with the long massive moves might not be sustainable.
> 
> oil and commodities going through the roof, then crashing down again.
> 
> the yen rising like a cake.
> 
> the aussie tanking with commodities.
> 
> all these were massive movements which made a lot of money. i dont think thatll happen every year.
> 
> i take 100k+ lots, just do it on a mini account (ie 10 mini contracts).
> 
> and my working capital i mean my money in the bank. atm i only have $5k in 2 brokers having cleared it all out at the end of the year.
> 
> i will run those at higher risk however, knowing i can top them up if i need to. im running my trade loss figures as if theyre 20k accounts, not 5k.




ring around show em your trading statements they will pic k u up. you are like the goose that lays golden eggs! 

I thought making 130 - 200 pips a week was doing good! owch!


----------



## >Apocalypto<

norm,

i saw your chart what ma do u use, if u don't mind me asking?


----------



## Stormin_Norman

tech/a said:


> Hmmm.
> 
> *Spoke to soon.*
> 
> What started out as very informative for us beginners has become a trading blah blah blog.
> I'll start version 2 so you guys have somewhere to chat!
> 
> Thanks for the relevent info contributed for us Dummies.
> I wasn't expecting an exhibition of Dummy type posts.
> No I havent spat the Dummy




sorry mate. one thing leads to another. feel free to start new threads with questions. im sure we'll try to answer them before heading off on our own tangents.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

>Apocalypto< said:


> norm,
> 
> i saw your chart what ma do u use, if u don't mind me asking?




every variable i use has to be a fib number.

13.3.5 on the stoch.

55 MA on the graph.


----------



## Cartman

tech/a said:


> Hmmm.
> 
> *Spoke to soon.*
> 
> What started out as very informative for us beginners has become a trading blah blah blog.
> I'll start version 2 so you guys have somewhere to chat!
> 
> Thanks for the relevent info contributed for us Dummies.
> I wasn't expecting an exhibition of Dummy type posts.
> No I havent spat the Dummy





  u continue to confuse me Tech ---- u have derived nothing from the last 2 dozen or so posts??


----------



## >Apocalypto<

Stormin_Norman said:


> every variable i use has to be a fib number.
> 
> 13.3.5 on the stoch.
> 
> 55 MA on the graph.




i am similer in that way my ma's are just about all 8 12 89

when do u do most your trading? I am a UK time 7am to 17pm. Never look at Asia.

Norm not trying to pick at u but I am just trying to get an idea of how u did the trading u say. what role does the MA play in the method? you take long at over sold off or above the MA reverse for short? I just see so many false hits on the stoch signals. also u use any MM at all? I risk 1% and take profit is set by the current 15min bar range.
you enter and flow with it till it hits ma or stoch signals a reverse?


----------



## Stormin_Norman

i trade whenever im awake and see a set up.


----------



## nunthewiser

Cartman said:


> u continue to confuse me Tech ---- u have derived nothing from the last 2 dozen or so posts??




 me personally have derived a great deal from the last cupla dozen posts 

but im too polite a nun to actually say what i reckon to some of the claims claimed


----------



## BentRod

lesm said:


> BentRod,
> 
> Yes.
> 
> I set the format to CSV after selecting the Format tab from within the Full Transaction History Section, then copy and paste the transaction history information into Notepad and save it as '.csv' file.
> 
> Then I open it up in excel and copy and append the transactions to the existing transactions in the master excel workbook I have set up for analysing trade activity.
> 
> 
> A more detailed explanation below:
> 
> From within your Oanda Account
> 
> Select Account--->
> 
> then select Full Transaction History--->
> 
> then select Format Tab
> Click on the ----> CSV Radio Button
> 
> Then select and copy the list of displayed transactions into Notepad and save the file as a ".csv" file.
> 
> This assumes that you have set up the range filter under the Range tab for the transaction period that you are interested in.
> 
> Cheers.




Thanks Lesm.

Check your pm's.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

do a spreadsheet. 5% returns a day. see what it adds up to in a year.

just answering a question on returns. dont have to read my posts if you dont want to 

im none too polite, its the interwebs!


----------



## nunthewiser

Stormin_Norman said:


> do a spreadsheet. 5% returns a day. see what it adds up to in a year.
> 
> just answering a question on returns. dont have to read my posts if you dont want to
> 
> im none too polite, its the interwebs!




i too have a calculator .......... its great how theres no losses in this game apparently ..

tip my hat 

off to the library to learn how to become a supertrader that makes a gain EVERYDAY

cheers you have given me inspiration


----------



## Stormin_Norman

>Apocalypto< said:


> Norm not trying to pick at u but I am just trying to get an idea of how u did the trading u say. what role does the MA play in the method? you take long at over sold off or above the MA reverse for short? I just see so many false hits on the stoch signals. also u use any MM at all? I risk 1% and take profit is set by the current 15min bar range.
> you enter and flow with it till it hits ma or stoch signals a reverse?




the MA is purely to signal the trend. i only will trade with the trend unless i have a very good reason not to.

the recent short on the pound and gold had a flat to slightly up MA but the euro and aussie plummeted and the yen fell off. so i took the shorts when the stoch moved from above to below 80.

there are false signals. no system is perfect. if it doesnt go my way, i get out.

i risk 5% account balance on a trade.

i exit when the market becomes over sold for a short, and over bought for a long (ie when the stoch moves back the opposite to the entry. a long ill look to exit when stoch goes back below 80 from above and a support is broken and vice versa for a short).


----------



## >Apocalypto<

Stormin_Norman said:


> do a spreadsheet. 5% returns a day. see what it adds up to in a year.
> 
> just answering a question on returns. dont have to read my posts if you dont want to
> 
> im none too polite, its the interwebs!




don't put the back up,

i am always curious to learn as it adds to my edge.

do u have rules on the 55 MA? stoplosses and take profit orders? how do u determine your exits or is it all gut feel?

I am not into politeness either. so what was the hit rate of winners to losers? I have noticed on a 15 min chart if I have a few hits it can eat right into my weeks winnings. how do u handle mayor draw down on a day or a week?

I have these questions cuz I noticed the amount of false hits that got thrown up. 

I see a long building now on your method on 5 min eur/usd 

cheers


----------



## Stormin_Norman

nunthewiser said:


> i too have a calculator .......... its great how theres no losses in this game apparently ..
> 
> tip my hat
> 
> off to the library to learn how to become a supertrader that makes a gain EVERYDAY
> 
> cheers you have given me inspiration






i dont make money everyday. but most days i do. looking at my result sheet ill have some days down 20%. others though ill be up 40%.

my 18 month average is 7.2% of account per day.

i was merely trying to give you a lesson in compounding returns.


----------



## nunthewiser

Stormin_Norman said:


> :
> i was merely trying to give you a lesson in compounding returns.




LOL   avaniceday champ 

intresting thread this one


----------



## Stormin_Norman

>Apocalypto< said:


> don't put the back up,
> 
> i am always curious to learn as it adds to my edge.
> 
> do u have rules on the 55 MA? stoplosses and take profit orders? how do u determine your exits or is it all gut feel?
> 
> I am not into politeness either. so what was the hit rate of winners to losers? I have noticed on a 15 min chart if I have a few hits it can eat right into my weeks winnings. how do u handle mayor draw down on a day or a week?
> 
> I have these questions cuz I noticed the amount of false hits that got thrown up.
> 
> I see a long building now on your method. on 5 min eur/usd
> 
> cheers




wasnt directed at you. sorry.

winning trades to losers? probably about 66 wins 33 losses. i dont keep track of that though. just my balance.

i use 5 minute chart. so cant comment on 15 minute set ups.

i use a fair bit of gut feel and support and resistance. hence the problem transferring the results of my human trading onto computer trading; which was why i was interested in the logic others used to calculate their support and resistance.

there is no long on the eurusd. the MA is down. i can only short.

AUD is a set up i might take however.


----------



## >Apocalypto<

Stormin_Norman said:


> wasnt directed at you. sorry.
> 
> winning trades to losers? probably about 66 wins 33 losses. i dont keep track of that though. just my balance.
> 
> i use 5 minute chart. so cant comment on 15 minute set ups.
> 
> i use a fair bit of gut feel and support and resistance. hence the problem transferring the results of my human trading onto computer trading; which was why i was interested in the logic others used to calculate their support and resistance.
> 
> there is no long on the eurusd. the MA is down. i can only short.
> 
> AUD is a set up i might take however.






Stormin_Norman said:


> the MA is purely to signal the trend. i only will trade with the trend unless i have a very good reason not to.
> 
> the recent short on the pound and gold had a flat to slightly up MA but the euro and aussie plummeted and the yen fell off. so i took the shorts when the stoch moved from above to below 80.
> 
> there are false signals. no system is perfect. if it doesnt go my way, i get out.
> 
> i risk 5% account balance on a trade.
> 
> i exit when the market becomes over sold for a short, and over bought for a long (ie when the stoch moves back the opposite to the entry. a long ill look to exit when stoch goes back below 80 from above and a support is broken and vice versa for a short).




cheers for the replies that clears up the questions I had.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

glad to help.

i took that AUD short @ 71155. started well. see how it continues.

edit: out at 70095. + A$245


----------



## >Apocalypto<

Stormin_Norman said:


> glad to help.
> 
> i took that AUD short @ 71155. started well. see how it continues.
> 
> edit: out at 70095. + A$245




only prob with the exit price norm is that the aud/usd has not been down there since 2-3 of Jan.........


----------



## Stormin_Norman

oops. 

71095. 

the skippy is setting up again.


----------



## lesm

nunthewiser said:


> me personally have derived a great deal from the last cupla dozen posts
> 
> but im too polite a nun to actually say what i reckon to some of the claims claimed




Nun....You can always ask for the blotter to be put on the table  and still be polite.


----------



## macca

Hi Stormin,

Just thinking about an EA on this, is your MA55 an EMA or SMA ? To establish the slope concept have you tried an SMA55 channel on high and low with a faster EMA 34? 

If 34EMA is above channel Buy only, if within channel then NO trade, if below then Sell only.

Sorry I am not a programmer so I can't help with the creation but I have seen this type of on/off "switch" used in other systems.

Stop loss may be swing point created at time when 5M chart Stoch was OB/OS


----------



## Stormin_Norman

macca said:


> Hi Stormin,
> 
> Just thinking about an EA on this, is your MA55 an EMA or SMA ? To establish the slope concept have you tried an SMA55 channel on high and low with a faster EMA 34?
> 
> If 34EMA is above channel Buy only, if within channel then NO trade, if below then Sell only.
> 
> Sorry I am not a programmer so I can't help with the creation but I have seen this type of on/off "switch" used in other systems.
> 
> Stop loss may be swing point created at time when 5M chart Stoch was OB/OS




that would change the rules surrounding my trades. but they are good thoughts; youre welcome to test them yourself on basic system i posted, as long as you let us know the results 

i put the stop loss just below a support point and calculate my lot sizing from that to make (roughly) a 5% risk for each trade.


----------



## Rockon2

Divergance ??


----------



## Stormin_Norman

i took a short just about right when that shot was taken. a discretionary trade cause it didnt quite fit my rules.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

didnt work out. exited trade -4 pips. itll probably fall through resistance now. that's how it usually goes.


----------



## lusk

An example of tick volume in forex with VSA as requested by cartman.

Example of a no demand bar on 60 minute timeframe of AUD/USD in downtrend, 

No demand (point 1)  is an upbar with tight spread within a downtrend with low volume (tick volume) showing no commitment to higher prices. 

You will also notice that high volume when support came (point 2) Prices then moved back upwards but did not penetrate the close of the no demand bar and continued downwards.

To enter the trade l would wait until the no demand bar is printed and enter on the following bar on a lower time frame going down to 15 minute then 3 minute for entry. I just wanted to show more that tick volume in FX works with VSA.


----------



## tech/a

Lusk

How do you put notes on your Tradeguider charts?


----------



## barney

lusk said:


> An example of tick volume in forex with VSA as requested by cartman.
> 
> Example of a no demand bar on 60 minute timeframe of AUD/USD in downtrend,
> 
> No demand (point 1)  is an upbar with tight spread within a downtrend with low volume (tick volume) showing no commitment to higher prices.
> 
> You will also notice that high volume when support came (point 2) Prices then moved back upwards but did not penetrate the close of the no demand bar and continued downwards.
> 
> To enter the trade l would wait until the no demand bar is printed and enter on the following bar on a lower time frame going down to 15 minute then 3 minute for entry. I just wanted to show more that tick volume in FX works with VSA.




Hi Lusk,  not totally conversant with VSA but certainly interested in anything representing a trading edge ........

I notice the point of interest on the chart also corresponds closely to a 2/3 Fib retracement level and a re-test of a previous resistance point on the downtrend ...... 

Bearing that in mind, and the fact that FX is predominantly automatic trading by systems players who seem to love fib levels, it may be hard to gauge whether the level in question was due to VSA or simply systems traders "doing their thing"   ..... just an observation .... not really stating a point of view.  Cheers.


----------



## Wysiwyg

Cartman, I have a question.Firstly I have been trading the forex for a while and found longevity is a myth.Unlike the share market, holding currencies for the long  haul is a sure way to get pithed off.These are the scenarios I am unsure of how to deal with.

1) Getting stopped out and then price moving in my favour (happens to everyone  )
2) Setting wider stop loss and price continues to move toward and take stop. (I`m a bad person and deserve to suffer  ) 
3) Price moves in favour and then revisits entry point and beyond (shakes me out of trade) and reverses (often happens)

With 3) , if moving the stop loss to break even point is the safest way to go then the revisits are a problem.

I am more and more inclined to go short to very short term hold to counter this *typical market action* and is this the only way to handle it?


----------



## Cartman

Wysiwyg said:


> I have been trading the forex for a while and found longevity is a myth.Unlike the share market, holding currencies for the long  haul is a sure way to get pithed off.




firstly Wys ---- i preface anything i say with 'i know nothing' --- cause what i know is only MY experience --- and there are a kazillion more experienced punters out there than me ------ Norm has a working system for example ---- what have i got?? ---- a busted ar*e from over leveraging which cost me a lot more than it should have --- lesson learned 

so if u r seriously asking me for any 'good' advice ---- make sure u test the advice first ---- cause those who say they know something, more than likely dont --- other wise y r they telling u or me ----- unless its for their own ego!


re the above quote ----  absolutely 100% totally agree  ----- fx is to be traded cause thats what the deep pockets are doing with it ----- buy and hold on a currency is a quick way to the 'funny farm'  from my exp.!! 



Wysiwyg said:


> 1) Getting stopped out and then price moving in my favour (happens to everyone  )
> 2) Setting wider stop loss and price continues to move toward and take stop. (I`m a bad person and deserve to suffer  )
> 3) Price moves in favour and then revisits entry point and beyond (shakes me out of trade) and reverses (often happens)
> 
> With 3) , if moving the stop loss to break even point is the safest way to go then the revisits are a problem.
> 
> I am more and more inclined to go short to very short term hold to counter this *typical market action* and is this the only way to handle it?




Wys ---- again ---- take no notice of what i say   ---   BUT --- from my experience,  all 3 points can be addressed by two things ----

a) Position Sizing (lower it)
b) Staking Plan  (cant tell u mine, but be *inventive* with FX)

bear in mind i dont trade to pay my bills -----  hell, im working to pay off my past trading bills   lol ----- 

 if i did, my capital base would need to be a lot bigger --- so it depends on the individual circumstances  ---- 

PS if u trade to pay yr bills ----- u'll wanna make sure yr *ENTRIES are spot on*  ---------- cause u will need a larger position sizing relative to capital base ------ enuff said --- hope some of that makes sense.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

Wysiwyg said:


> Cartman, I have a question.Firstly I have been trading the forex for a while and found longevity is a myth.Unlike the share market, holding currencies for the long  haul is a sure way to get pithed off.These are the scenarios I am unsure of how to deal with.
> 
> 1) Getting stopped out and then price moving in my favour (happens to everyone  )
> 2) Setting wider stop loss and price continues to move toward and take stop. (I`m a bad person and deserve to suffer  )
> 3) Price moves in favour and then revisits entry point and beyond (shakes me out of trade) and reverses (often happens)
> 
> With 3) , if moving the stop loss to break even point is the safest way to go then the revisits are a problem.
> 
> I am more and more inclined to go short to very short term hold to counter this *typical market action* and is this the only way to handle it?




great questions, which can never be truely answered.

getting a good trade stopped out, setting too wide of a stop loss and losing your profits are all the same problem, just with many faces.

how can they be overcome? they cant. that's the joy and pain of the market. itll return you great returns, and cost you your pants.

here's my thoughts on the 3 scenarios 

*1. getting stopped out on a good trade.*

i cut my losses early. so this can often happen to me. i set my SL first, look for a position just above support. then i get a rough idea of my entry price. i then get the pips i could lose from my SL, and using my 5% loss rule i calculate how many contracts i should trade.

the larger the SL, the smaller the position and vice versa.

there's nothing u can do to stop having some trades taken out. but if you put them the otherside of some obvious resistance you do help yourself greatly.

not setting a SL (or setting one too large for your position) leads on from this.

*2. setting a large stop loss which gets wiped out*

if you use the above method of relative lot sizes to SL sizes then all stop losses are the same. in my case 5% of my account. the pips might be different, but the cost is the same.

NEVER lose more then 5% a trade. EVER!!! if you want to risk more then 5% per trade you cross over from a speculator to a gambler. if you risk more then 5% per trade you WILL suffer gambler's ruin.

so combine #1 + #2 and the conclusion is, set your SL at a position you think is 'safe' from a movement towards. THEN calculate your lot size. LASTLY take your position.

in my experience that is the only way to really deal with issue #1+2. you cant solve the problems, just try your best to deal with them.

*3. Losing profits on the table.*

my strategy is let profits run, cut my losses.

however i will exit trades if there is a obvious resistance point, and that resistance point proves to cause a large, dramatic bounce. sometimes this costs me future profits. sometimes it saves me from ending up with none.

another way to counter this is to close half your position at a resistance point, and set the other half of the position to a zero stop loss and let it run.

sometimes i have closed trades at resistance which ended up getting broken and moving a further 100 pips. so i 'banked' 20, and 'lost' another 100. losing that 20 5 times and having the trade 'run on' once would equal the same result.

i tend to favour the half trade method. often my trades in a trending market will go like this.

buy at 100. SL = 5

trade goes to resistance at 107. i take 0.5 profit and set SL = 100

market mvoes back to 103. i enter again as it set up for a trade and breaks resistance at 110 (SL 105).

now at 110 i have 1.5 lots. the price goes to 120 and hits more resistance. i close 0.5 of a trade and move both SL to 110 (one now +10, the other =0).

and so on. i love trends. theyre my friends. of course its just my thinking and way of trading. its definitely not the only way to do things. but ive had some pretty monumental success with it.

hope i could help add to your thoughts running around your head.


----------



## Wysiwyg

Thanks gents so much for taking the time to answer my questions.  It is greatly appreciated. 

Stormin` that is the best way to handle the nature of financial markets.The  lot sizing to stop distance is a discipline I lack and thanks for confirming this!
I sometimes risk bigger % and you guessed it.Ouch!  Oh don`t worry, I left an open end on a dow contract and exited at a 10K loss last September.They kept driving against me till I broke.The bloody bastards.And stupidity on my beahalf for leaving the door open.It confirmed to me the cut-throat nature of this business and although fighting entities way above  my weight, I can still give `em a good gob smack.

Okay now the other tricky one and that is when to exit in profit.



> another way to counter this is to close half your position at a resistance point, and set the other half of the position to a zero stop loss and let it run.




This is the practice I use but again the discipline to do it every time is lacking.I have tried trailing stops and using the maximum bar length for the trading period as the distance.Maybe another method for defining TS disance is better.Rather the quoted way myself and a good addition to an EA it could be.Scaling in and scaling out.


----------



## MS+Tradesim

Wysiwyg said:


> I have tried trailing stops and using the maximum bar length for the trading period as the distance.Maybe another method for defining TS disance is better.Rather the quoted way myself and a good addition to an EA it could be.Scaling in and scaling out.




Have you tried volatility based trails? This way the stop is tighter in smoother trending markets and further away in choppy markets. If you position size in relation to a volatility based trail your risk is consistent regardless of the market. And if you use the trail as your initial stop the logic of the position size carries through the trade.


----------



## Wysiwyg

MS+Tradesim said:


> Have you tried volatility based trails? This way the stop is tighter in smoother trending markets and further away in choppy markets. If you position size in relation to a volatility based trail your risk is consistent regardless of the market. *And if you use the trail as your* *initial stop the logic of the position size carries through the trade.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> 
> I still have a hell of alot to learn MS & T.Two real accounts blown up have done wonders.


----------



## Cartman

Wysiwyg said:


> The  lot sizing to stop distance is a discipline I lack and thanks for confirming this!
> I sometimes risk bigger % and you guessed it.Ouch!




hey Wys,

one of the hardest things to do when u take a big hit is to lower yr position sizes cause yr always thinking 'catch up' ---- the brain in this state doesnt react rationally ----

u have to go back a few levels and concentrate on the process of trading well otherwise it'll get ya again sooner or later ---

i basically stopped trading for a year cause i was butchering myself with irrational decisions after a big loss --- taken a while to fix too !! 

u *must* treat yr sim account like yr *real* account   ---  its all about doing the 'right thing' instinctively 



Wysiwyg said:


> Okay now the other tricky one and that is when to exit in profit.
> This is the practice I use but again the discipline to do it every time is lacking.
> *Scaling in and scaling out*.




*live and die by scaling* !!  it addresses a heap of issues ---

if u get yr entry wrong and the trade goes pair shape in a hurry u only lose a small % of what yr full lot size would have been ---

if the trade goes against u a bit but still fits yr profile u can 'average' down --- dirty word to many traders ---- but most dont use it correctly --- u can always trade yr way out of a bad trade if u have enuff lots up yr sleeve --- if ya put the full ticker on a trade from the outset and it goes south, u have *no options* to play with 

if the trade goes for u,  its psychologically easier to add to the pos. --- 

re exits ---- Norm and i think a little diff on this ---  im happy to take profit on the first sign of weakness --- u can always re enter on the dip if its still a higher low etc --- but i appreciate if u guys are going auto u need to have something concrete to work with ---

all above is just my opinion and should be treated as nonsense until proven otherwise  ---- 

good luck with it.


----------



## Wysiwyg

Cartman said:


> *live and die by scaling* !!  it addresses a heap of issues ---




One of the worst outcomes with scaling in is if the market turns upon follow up entry/s, then we have profits reducing and losses increasing.An added juggling act to managing the trade.


----------



## Cartman

Wysiwyg said:


> One of the worst outcomes with scaling in is if the market turns upon follow up entry/s, then we have profits reducing and losses increasing.An added juggling act to managing the trade.




thats true ---- but rather have profits decreasing with two lots than losses increasing with 5 lots --- etc.  --- theres no utopia unfortunately --- u just gotta find something that fits yr personality ----


----------



## Stormin_Norman

Wysiwyg said:


> One of the worst outcomes with scaling in is if the market turns upon follow up entry/s, then we have profits reducing and losses increasing.An added juggling act to managing the trade.




hence make sure the first position is at SL before u enter a second position.

total risk < 5%.

once SL = 0 u have 5% risk to 'play with' again. 

when talking about scaling in, im talking about my system giving me another entry signal. during heavily trending markets. its not a regular thing. but something i use when there's a big movement on.

someone on a forum (maybe this one maybe another) mentioned the yo yo exit. but i cant find an indicator for mt4 for it. can anyone help?


----------



## MS+Tradesim

Wysiwyg said:


> I still have a hell of alot to learn MS & T.Two real accounts blown up have done wonders.




I've blown two live accounts in FX.   It's a wonderful market to humble the open-minded.


----------



## Stormin_Norman

i blew my first two accounts as well.

i said if i blew my 3rd; id give up. that was the discipline i needed.


----------



## AbundantIncome

Stormin_Norman said:


> i blew my first two accounts as well.
> 
> i said if i blew my 3rd; id give up. that was the discipline i needed.




wondering what you all mean by blowing the account ??? 

anyway, tips on mini trading account ??? anybody can give me the guide ?? best broker etc etc .. step by step if possible .. really really need some income, as finance is getting too tight for me right now ....

thanks


----------



## prawn_86

AbundantIncome said:


> wondering what you all mean by blowing the account ???
> 
> anyway, tips on mini trading account ??? anybody can give me the guide ?? best broker etc etc .. step by step if possible .. really really need some income, as finance is getting too tight for me right now ....
> 
> thanks




blowing an account means trading it down to 0, or close enough. IE - wasting all the money in there.

No offence, but if you think you can instantly make income trading your in for a big shock/reality check. But you'll try anyway because we all think we are better/different to all the others...


----------



## Cartman

AbundantIncome said:


> wondering what you all mean by blowing the account ???
> 
> anyway, tips on mini trading account ??? anybody can give me the guide ?? best broker etc etc .. step by step if possible .. *really really need some income, as finance is getting too tight for me right now *....
> 
> thanks




A/I ----- serious answer here  ---- 

if the above is the case, trading is the *last thing u should be doing* ---

if monies tight --- u have limited capital ---- that means u will lose cause ur trading under duress !!!

u need more money in a hurry?! ----- scrub houses down --- clean gutters ---- dunnies --- anything -----  *trading aint gona do it 4 u* unless u get lucky ---- and if u did get lucky first up, that would only delay the inevitable ----  

when u start trading u should be *using money u can afford to lose* -------- have a guess why that is ?


----------



## Stormin_Norman

AbundantIncome said:


> wondering what you all mean by blowing the account ???
> 
> anyway, tips on mini trading account ??? anybody can give me the guide ?? best broker etc etc .. step by step if possible .. really really need some income, as finance is getting too tight for me right now ....
> 
> thanks




theres no such thing as a free lunch.

and go to the casino and put it all on black. at this stage youll receive better odds.


----------



## white_goodman

AbundantIncome said:


> wondering what you all mean by blowing the account ???
> 
> anyway, tips on mini trading account ??? anybody can give me the guide ?? best broker etc etc .. step by step if possible .. really really need some income, as finance is getting too tight for me right now ....
> 
> thanks




based upon this attitude you wont succeed... if you dont have the drive to google and read things for urself you wont make it... no-one got successful by being spoon fed.


----------



## kam75

Stormin_Norman said:


> once i thought it would work, i funded my third $1000 account. from that initial account im now up to $350k in working capital in about 18 months.




That's very impressive man.  What kind of money management did you use to achieve the above Stormin_Norman?  More specifically, what formula did you apply to increase your bet size as your account grew in value?


----------



## Stormin_Norman

5% of account per trade. lot sized varied depending on where the stop loss is.

cut losses early (even before the 5% lots of the time) and let the winners run. look for strong trends and go with them.


----------



## AbundantIncome

tech/a said:


> I couldnt find a thread this basic.
> 
> I dont need to run through Entry/Exit Risk Management etc on Forex thats to advanced!
> 
> I want to ask the really dumb/novice starter questions.
> 
> I'd like anyone who can help to answer the following.
> 
> I trade with IB with E signal live feed.
> 
> (1) What are the most liquid contracts.
> (2) What are the most traded contracts---IE popular.
> (3) What is the Tick value of them?
> (4) What are the margin requirements / contract?
> (5) What are the codes I'd log into IB? Live data feed its also fed by E signal.
> (6) What are the trading times Eastern seaboard.
> (7) How do you trade continuous contracts so you dont get caught having a delivery.
> (8) What are the novice traps (Other than trading errors entry exit bad risk management) The sort of thing novices just dont have a clue that can bite you!
> 
> Much appreciated.
> No doubt more dumb questions to come as I explore my dumbness.




Wondering why do you need E Signal live feed when IB has feed data ???

How much do you need to pay for this per month  ???

Thanks


----------



## AbundantIncome

Stormin_Norman said:


> every variable i use has to be a fib number.
> 
> 13.3.5 on the stoch.
> 
> 55 MA on the graph.




am trying to increase my leaning exponentially ... could you elaborate more on this ???

just learnt about fibonnaci ... 

thanks in advance .. :d


----------



## Stormin_Norman

Fibonacci - superstition or an underlying mechanism of the markets?


----------



## AbundantIncome

Stormin_Norman said:


> Fibonacci - superstition or an underlying mechanism of the markets?




huh  ???? am talking about the indicator ??? is there a superstition around here ???


----------



## AbundantIncome

prawn_86 said:


> blowing an account means trading it down to 0, or close enough. IE - wasting all the money in there.
> 
> No offence, but if you think you can instantly make income trading your in for a big shock/reality check. But you'll try anyway because we all think we are better/different to all the others...




Thanks for the input. No, I have spared a little for loss in the beginning. Am having a business too but it is kinda tough in this economic climate ?  I do not think I would succeed initially but hopefully in the longer terms of course. If no confidence at least, no point of trying right ??? 

Am trying to learn quickly that's all 

Kinda tight but still can move a little so I need to learn fast and lose a few k before I can start to earn a little hopefully :d




Cartman said:


> A/I ----- serious answer here  ----
> 
> if the above is the case, trading is the *last thing u should be doing* ---
> 
> if monies tight --- u have limited capital ---- that means u will lose cause ur trading under duress !!!
> 
> u need more money in a hurry?! ----- scrub houses down --- clean gutters ---- dunnies --- anything -----  *trading aint gona do it 4 u* unless u get lucky ---- and if u did get lucky first up, that would only delay the inevitable ----
> 
> when u start trading u should be *using money u can afford to lose* -------- have a guess why that is ?




Thanks for the kind advice. Yes, I know the harsh reality. I am coming from share trading. I just want to learn quickly the basics. Forex has this liquidity. I do not aim for too much, just a little in share, it is kinda a bottleneck atm especialy with the high commissions.



Stormin_Norman said:


> theres no such thing as a free lunch.
> 
> and go to the casino and put it all on black. at this stage youll receive better odds.




That's true. No, I am willing to put out a fight and learn as much through here and the various demo accounts to test my trading plan. Just need to set up things quickly for my trading system. That's all. Getting impatient !!!



white_goodman said:


> based upon this attitude you wont succeed... if you dont have the drive to google and read things for urself you wont make it... no-one got successful by being spoon fed.




I have, that's why I got here and other forums in the first place. I kinda have a system I like to follow but I need to get things organise quickly. I need more time to test the trading plans that is all. Plus trying to put some of trading indicators you guys have been discussing to see if it works for me or not. That's why I need to know what's generally work especially from Aussie's point of view, rather than experimenting again. Do not need to reinvent the wheels. Time is very scarce these days.

But am trying a few different demo accounts. But need to consolidate them somehow though as they are a little confusing with different platforms.

Wonder why not all brokers try to meet to available platforms out there to make it easier but of course they have their wise reasons to do so ... 

Thanks for the interesting discussions so far ....


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## Stormin_Norman

AbundantIncome said:


> huh  ???? am talking about the indicator ??? is there a superstition around here ???




depends who u ask about fibonacci numbers.

fibonacci isnt an indicator. its a number progression series.


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## kam75

What kind of trading system do you use Stormin_Norman?


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## AbundantIncome

Stormin_Norman said:


> depends who u ask about fibonacci numbers.
> 
> fibonacci isnt an indicator. its a number progression series.




thanks for the correction ...

woohoo .. a bit mind blowing trying to learn the meta trader .... 

any tips etc ? how do you delete stuff on the meta trader ... right click does not do it .. hmmmm


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## Stormin_Norman

kam75 said:


> What kind of trading system do you use Stormin_Norman?




moving average + stochastic. its in the forex for dummies thread.


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## CanOz

How do you like them apples?




Cheers,


CanOz


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## Stormin_Norman

nice one bruv. those MA look closer then mine, but the principle is very similar. i probably would have been taking longs as the stoch moved up because it looks like an uptrend there.

but whatever gains the pips!


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## BentRod

CanOz said:


> How do you like them apples?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 
> CanOz




I Love those apples  :


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## CanOz

Good to see you on that one Bent! Using the break of support too, nice one.

CanOz


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## BentRod

Yeah...broke an ascending TL on the hourlies......any excuse to sell it!

Hopefully she is a runner like the other one


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## AbundantIncome

*Re: Forex for Dummies ... data feeds*

do we need to keep the computer on to get the updated data feed at all times ??? is there like a backfill for example in MT4 ???

not sure I would like to be up all nite and might be wise to turn the puter internet off to get rid of prying eyes plus save Earth by conserving energy ... Earth needs no more heating ...


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## Page

I do not know much about MT4 but there is an option in it were you get all the recent news updates.


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## AbundantIncome

Page said:


> I do not know much about MT4 but there is an option in it were you get all the recent news updates.




Hi Page

Thanks for the information.

I just look at the demo account. I just lost whopping 2400k within two days ... wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Scary scary ...


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## AbundantIncome

I realise one of the huge loss is due to japanese pair ... do people actually trade these big movers ??? they seem to drain the margin a lot and hence I got closed down due to small movement yet big in terms of margin.

Whats are your insights and experience ????

Thanks


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## CanOz

AbundantIncome said:


> I realise one of the huge loss is due to japanese pair ... do people actually trade these big movers ??? they seem to drain the margin a lot and hence I got closed down due to small movement yet big in terms of margin.
> 
> Whats are your insights and experience ????
> 
> Thanks




What size lots are you trading? Generally i'm trading 10k to 30k lots on the major pairs. If you are trading a few 100k lots or more then you'll see some moves allright!

CanOz


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## AbundantIncome

CanOz said:


> What size lots are you trading? Generally i'm trading 10k to 30k lots on the major pairs. If you are trading a few 100k lots or more then you'll see some moves allright!
> 
> CanOz




not sure i use the Interbank Forex, what is their standard demo size ???? not sure where to tell, no choices only lot 1,2,3 etc ....

still learning the platform, second day using it so far ...


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## kam75

AbundantIncome said:


> Hi Page
> 
> Thanks for the information.
> 
> I just look at the demo account. I just lost whopping 2400k within two days ... wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
> 
> Scary scary ...




Well I'm not doing a lot better.  Been testing the 3 Duck system and overall I've taken a couple of 5k demo accounts down to 3-4k.  I'm using a stoploss ranging from 20-30 pips on the 5m chart, placed just above previous swing hi/lows.  The thing is, I rarely make more than that in my trades. So unless I have a system that has a high probability of winning, I just keep bouncing like a goddamn yoyo.


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## Stormin_Norman

dont complicate things.

look for trends. go with them. be patient.

think like a surfer. wait for the wave, duck under 20 waiting for 'the' big one.


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## CanOz

kam75 said:


> Well I'm not doing a lot better.  Been testing the 3 Duck system and overall I've taken a couple of 5k demo accounts down to 3-4k.  I'm using a stoploss ranging from 20-30 pips on the 5m chart, placed just above previous swing hi/lows.  The thing is, I rarely make more than that in my trades. So unless I have a system that has a high probability of winning, I just keep bouncing like a goddamn yoyo.




Sounds like my live account Kam, from 8927.25 to 7053.30 in 5 days!

More stats coming.

CanOz


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## Stormin_Norman

CanOz said:


> Sounds like my live account Kam, from 8927.25 to 7053.30 in 5 days!
> 
> More stats coming.
> 
> CanOz






even with all the trends around?! 

id post my results. but that gets me in trouble.


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## CanOz

Stormin_Norman said:


> even with all the trends around?!
> 
> id post my results. but that gets me in trouble.




Yup, 

Kudos to Kam for using a demo.....well done mate.

CanOz


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## BentRod

> id post my results. but that gets me in trouble.




A screen shot of your account or trades will silence the doubters mate.

I believe Ya . 
Some great moves in Skip and cable lately, pyramiding positions would have done very well.


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## wayneL

Stormin_Norman said:


> id post my results. but that gets me in trouble.






BentRod said:


> A screen shot of your account or trades will silence the doubters mate.




Yes that is fine (just block out info you don't want others to see).

The reason is that so many post BS unverifiable results on forums with a covert agenda, that it's impossible to believe anyone anymore.

Anyone can post results, as long as it's verifiable.

Cheers


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## CanOz

Ok, last weeks results:

37 trades
27 losers
10 winners

27% win rate

Avg Win 73.06
Avg.Loss -45.08

Biggest win 122.0
Biggest loss 96.0

See you later 3 ducks.

CanOz


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## CanOz

wayneL said:


> Yes that is fine (just block out info you don't want others to see).
> 
> The reason is that so many post BS unverifiable results on forums with a covert agenda, that it's impossible to believe anyone anymore.
> 
> Anyone can post results, as long as it's verifiable.
> 
> Cheers




You want me to verify my losses Wayne?

CanOz


----------



## BentRod

CanOz said:


> You want me to verify my losses Wayne?
> 
> CanOz




LOL 



Cannie...what is the exit for this system?

EDIT: Sorry....I'll go read the 3 Duck Thread.


----------



## lesm

CanOz said:


> You want me to verify my losses Wayne?
> 
> CanOz




Why not, you may just be looking for sympathy or trying to make kam and abundant feel good :

Check your email.

Cheers.


----------



## CanOz

BentRod said:


> LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Cannie...what is the exit for this system?
> 
> EDIT: Sorry....I'll go read the 3 Duck Thread.





Exit?????? Ahhhhhh Haaaaaaa!

Just kidding...its says its descretionary, but you can use the MA.

CanOz


----------



## CanOz

lesm said:


> Why not, you may just be looking for sympathy or trying to make kam and abundant feel good :
> 
> Check your email.
> 
> Cheers.





Thanks Les. I feel better already!

CanOz


----------



## kam75

lesm said:


> Why not, you may just be looking for sympathy or trying to make kam and abundant feel good :
> 
> Check your email.
> 
> Cheers.




The only thing that'll make me feel good is learning Forex. 

Stormin_Norman, if you can post some charts of your trades that would be of much help.  When you say just look for the trends, do you read this solely off the 5M charts or do you use multiple timeframes?


----------



## BentRod

kam75 said:


> The only thing that'll make me feel good is learning Forex.
> 
> Stormin_Norman, if you can post some charts of your trades that would be of much help.  When you say just look for the trends, do you read this solely off the 5M charts or do you use multiple timeframes?




Kam,
       Have you tried trading in your own way?

Why do you want to follow a system?

Have a go on Demo(trading your own method) with a realistic bankroll and see how you fair.
If that works maybe open a small account to introduce emotion.

I can't see what the problem is if you have been trading profitably for so many years on stocks??


----------



## kam75

BentRod said:


> Kam,
> Have you tried trading in your own way?
> 
> Why do you want to follow a system?
> 
> Have a go on Demo(trading your own method) with a realistic bankroll and see how you fair.
> If that works maybe open a small account to introduce emotion.
> 
> I can't see what the problem is if you have been trading profitably for so many years on stocks??




Hi BentRod

My problem is simple - in Forex, I have no Volume and OBV to gauge the market.  The FX charts are too messy, trends appear uncertain and erratic.  Who's in charge - the bulls or bears?  It's like I'm blindfolded, guessing and hoping my trade will work out.  

What I have yet to see is some kind of consistency, either more wins than losses or at least larger amounts won vs lost.  

I think a system of rules to trade by is most important.  Without it, you stand no chance because you have no way of telling if you're on the right track, especially when losing streaks occur.  The 3 Duck System I've been trading does sometimes appear to work, but I find it too inconsistent in terms of profitable trades and amount made.  
So looking for a system to trade that

1. accurately defines current trend and trades with it
2. has precise rules for entry
3. cuts losses fast
4. lets profits run
5. has precise rules for exits


----------



## BentRod

Maybe you think Volume gives more of an edge than it does??

Why not try the same patterns without volume?

Just a suggestion mate, not telling you how to suck eggs!!


----------



## wayneL

kam75 said:


> Hi BentRod
> 
> My problem is simple - in Forex, I have no Volume and OBV to gauge the market.  The FX charts are too messy, trends appear uncertain and erratic.  Who's in charge - the bulls or bears?  It's like I'm blindfolded, guessing and hoping my trade will work out.
> 
> What I have yet to see is some kind of consistency, either more wins than losses or at least larger amounts won vs lost.
> 
> I think a system of rules to trade by is most important.  Without it, you stand no chance because you have no way of telling if you're on the right track, especially when losing streaks occur.  The 3 Duck System I've been trading does sometimes appear to work, but I find it too inconsistent in terms of profitable trades and amount made.
> So looking for a system to trade that
> 
> 1. accurately defines current trend and trades with it
> 2. has precise rules for entry
> 3. cuts losses fast
> 4. lets profits run
> 5. has precise rules for exits




Futures.

Though volume won't be a perfect guide because of the open outcry hours etc. the volume is there and it's real.

FWIW


----------



## BentRod

Thanks for the chart Wayne.

Do you trade the Futs using Volume?
I don't so have no idea how good it works.

I've always wondered if it is worthwhile following the futures Volume but haven't tried it as from my understanding Futures follow Spot?

Anyway....I'll be long on breach of the second red Candle on the left with stops underneath the latest green one:


----------



## wayneL

BentRod said:


> Thanks for the chart Wayne.
> 
> Do you trade the Futs using Volume?
> I don't so have no idea how good it works.
> 
> I've always wondered if it is worthwhile following the futures Volume but haven't tried it as from my understanding Futures follow Spot?
> 
> Anyway....I'll be long on breach of the second red Candle on the left with stops underneath the latest green one:



I keep an eye on volume but more of a pattern trader really. If there is volume I can't explain then I sit up and take notice.

It's there, ready for if I want to refer to it.


----------



## BentRod

> If there is volume I can't explain then I sit up and take notice.




Makes perfect sense, thanks bud.


----------



## Wysiwyg

kam75 said:


> Hi BentRod
> 
> My problem is simple - in Forex, I have no Volume and OBV to gauge the market.  The FX charts are too messy, trends appear uncertain and erratic.  Who's in charge - the bulls or bears?




I think forex charts are trendy, not messy  and trend duration is purely time frame subjective in my opinion.

Waynels suggestion of using forex futures open interest data is, from what I read, the best alternative.


----------



## AbundantIncome

*Re: Forex for Dummies .. what's with the high pips ?*

Checking the demo account to trade again after a restless sleep ... wanna learn more but body is tired last night so ...

there are about 10-20 pips difference ... is this due to the non active period or ???? anybody using interbank forex ? i have a feeling they are a market maker as i was learning, they provide warning about off exchange which I assume to be the same as Market Maker system. 

Is that right ? if this is the case, then I am not going no where close using it then ... no point using demo account which is different to the real trading account I would be using ....

or is this just the period of the forex market where it has a wide spread ?? could we get the periods to avoid please ?????

i get some tips on babypip about avoiding crazy fridays, weekends, holidays ... any period of time you find it impossible to get good price during the day ? please share 


thanks

PS: i lost like 2.5 k from demo account as we speak ...


----------



## kam75

wayneL said:


> Futures.
> 
> Though volume won't be a perfect guide because of the open outcry hours etc. the volume is there and it's real.
> 
> FWIW




Thanks WayneL.  That may well be what I'm looking for.  
How do I get started?  
Any particular software to use?  
Education? 
Brokers?  
Capital needed to start?


----------



## wayneL

kam75 said:


> Thanks WayneL.  That may well be what I'm looking for.
> How do I get started?
> Any particular software to use?
> Education?
> Brokers?
> Capital needed to start?




www.interactivebrokers.com

You can trade both futures and forex via ECN (and just about every bloody thing on the planet)


----------



## caribean

Below is a shot of the futures contract with difference between Bid&Ask, and also volume with climax etc. depicted in different colours, do you really need all this stuff to trade?...probably not.


----------



## Cooks

Wanted an opinion of which broker to use for Forex. Was looking to start trading and have been using FXCM for trial. One bad thing is their spread seems a little far fetched. Is this normal compared to with other brokers? Does anyone have any recommendations?

Thanks


----------



## Page

Cooks said:


> Wanted an opinion of which broker to use for Forex. Was looking to start trading and have been using FXCM for trial. One bad thing is their spread seems a little far fetched. Is this normal compared to with other brokers? Does anyone have any recommendations?
> 
> Thanks




If you are looking for a good forex broker I can recommend few of them like Oanda, Iforex, Easy Forex, Forex Yard, Finexo and AVAFX. These are some nice online brokers and having nice services as well. They are regulated and working well worldwide. AVAFX is an online broker fro Cyprus and working well in this market. It is not having NFA approvel it is in process and will get it soon. They are having nice services. For more information's about this broker you can visy their site AVAFX.com. I have also written some blogs for beginners they can take help of this URL.

reeal-reealjordan.blogspot.com/


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## finvik

Cooks said:


> Wanted an opinion of which broker to use for Forex. Was looking to start trading and have been using FXCM for trial. One bad thing is their spread seems a little far fetched. Is this normal compared to with other brokers? Does anyone have any recommendations?
> 
> Thanks




well there are many available on the net only. but for the beginners you should always look for broker that accepts payments though PayPal so that you dont have to get into e-gold or any such thing. give the details of your location, it will hep us in finding a good broker for you


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## Page

Forex market is a very risky market and one must take help of dummies to learn about trading this market.


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