# How to identify an investment scam



## Joe Blow

Over the years, many people have arrived at ASF with questions about various "investment" businesses that have cold called them, and given them a sales pitch filled with promises of high returns with very little effort or risk. In many cases these people are told that they will be able to quit their job and live a leisurely life spending as little as 30 minutes a day trading financial markets. All they have to do is hand over a four or five figure upfront membership fee and the company will sell them black box software or send them index trading, or forex alerts that will enable them to earn a substantial income. In many cases the promises are not so elaborate and fanciful, but the sizable upfront fee and promises of far above average returns are always part of the sales pitch. Whatever company it is will always have the proverbial goose that lays golden eggs.

All of these businesses are investment scams. They are selling dreams, not reality. You will not only lose your sizable upfront membership fee, but more than likely whatever money you trade based on their alerts, or buy signals generated by their black box software. Once they have your membership fee they don't care whether you make any money. They have already made theirs, and their aim will be to keep the scam going for as long as possible, and rip off as many people as they can before it all falls over and they are forced to close up shop and disappear. 

Here are some things to look out for if you are concerned that a company you are dealing with may be an investment scam:


*Company or domain name registered recently*

Good reputations take a long time to build, and genuine investment businesses will have been around for years. Scammers will register their company and domain name, create their website and get to work fleecing gullible people quickly. They know that most people will never bother to check when their company or domain name was registered, so this is not something they are usually concerned about.

You can find out the registration details of any domain name here: http://whois.domaintools.com/

You can find out information about a company, including when they were registered, by searching ASIC's registers here: https://connectonline.asic.gov.au

If the company or domain name of an investment business you are dealing with was registered recently, be very suspicious. It is most definitely a red flag.


*Domain name privacy enabled*

As far as I'm concerned this is almost a guarantee that you are dealing with an investment scam. No legitimate company has domain privacy enabled on their domain name. Why would any genuine investment business (or any business for that matter) want to hide the registration details of their domain name? The answer is that they wouldn't. Only those who have something to hide would do this. If you are dealing with a company that has domain privacy enabled on on their domain name registration information, do not deal with them any further. You are about to get scammed.


*Promises of high returns with minimal risk and little effort involved*

No genuine investment business would make these kind of promises. Scammers try and appeal to people's sense of greed by making promises of returns unattainable even by professional traders and fund managers. Sadly, there are many gullible people out there who will be taken in by these promises and will hand over their money. The salespeople for these businesses are usually professional telephone salespeople working on commission, and they will work very hard for the sale, as that's how they get paid. They will be smooth talking, reassuring and will do their best to convince you that you are making a very smart decision by becoming a member.


*Use of a virtual office*

This is a common tactic scammers use to make you think that you are dealing with a much larger, legitimate business. For a relatively small fee it is possible to rent a "virtual office" in a prime capital city CBD location. 

What is a virtual office? It is exactly what it sounds like, an office that doesn't actually exist. Virtual office services include the use of a prestigious CBD address, a receptionist who answers the phone in the company name and takes messages. There will be many different businesses using the same address, as the addresses of virtual offices are rented to many different companies. Not all companies using virtual offices are scams, but many scammers do use them to make you think that you are dealing with a big company with a prestigious CBD address instead of a small scam outfit operating out of a residential addresses or a small suburban office.

If you suspect that a company you are dealing with is using a virtual office, simply Google their address and if it's a virtual office it will show up on the website of one of the many companies offering virtual office services. The largest companies are Regus and Servcorp, but there are many other smaller companies offering a similar service.


*You are required to register your details before viewing information on their website*

Those running investment scams need phone numbers of potential marks to sell their scam to. One of the strategies scammers use to extract this information from people is to make it mandatory to submit this information in order to view certain sections of their website, such as details of their products and services, or their "performance history", which is almost always manufactured. Along with your name, and perhaps other details, you will be asked to hand over your mobile phone number. 

Be very wary of any investment business that asks you to hand over your phone number. No legitimate investment business will fish for your personal information in this way.


*Company located on the Gold Coast*

The Gold Coast is awash with frauds, scammers, and snake oil salesmen. It is widely regarded as the fraud capital of Australia and almost every single scam that has been exposed here at ASF has been based on the Gold Coast. Be particularly careful when dealing with investment businesses based on the Gold Coast, as your chances of being ripped off are considerably higher.

http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2012/07/10/430421_gold-coast-business.html

Some investment scams will go to great lengths to hide the fact that they are based on the Gold Coast because of the stigma attached to it. They will often rent a virtual office in Sydney, or Melbourne and list that address on their website. However, it is very easy to find the post code of any company's registered place of business by searching ASIC's company register here: https://connectonline.asic.gov.au/RegistrySearch


*Cold calling*

No genuine investment business will cold call you. They don't need to. Only scammers cold call because it is the most effective way to find people who will hand over thousands of dollars without doing any research or appropriate due diligence. Often, scammers employ professional telephone salespeople who work on a commission basis. Avoid any company that cold calls you, especially those that keep calling back in an attempt to close the sale.


*Little or no information about who owns or is employed by the company*

The "About Us" page of an investment scam website - if it even exists - will usually be very light on detail. They will brag about their "experienced group of professional traders" or their "research team of industry experts" but there will almost never be any real names mentioned. The reason for this is that there are no professional traders or industry experts, just a group of scammers whose sole purpose is to extract as much money as possible from gullible people.

I do recall one exception to this. The "About Us" page of this particular company had photos of professional looking people complete with names and career profiles. In reality, the photos had all been taken from other websites and the names and career profiles were all fictitious. None of those people actually existed. They were all a figment of the scammer's imagination and were used to give the company a facade of credibility.


*High pressure sales tactics*

The professional salespeople employed by scam companies will use every high pressure sales tactic in the book to get you to part with your money. You may be told that there are limited memberships available and they are down to the last few. If you don't sign up now you will probably miss out. If you hesitate and ask for time to think about it, when they call back next time there will even be fewer memberships available.

Sometimes the pressure is even more intense and you may also be told that if you don't sign up that day you will miss out. They may also offer to discount the price as an incentive to hand over your money. They will probably tell you that they are not supposed to discount the price but are doing it just for you and only this one time.

You will more than likely be fed lies about their previous returns, which will always be very high and well above average market returns. They will make it seem like you are about to miss out on the opportunity of a lifetime. Don't be fooled.

Sometimes they will include a free iPad or laptop as an incentive. Of course, the cost of this "free" iPad or laptop is already factored into the membership price, but some people are swayed by the prospect of getting something tangible for "free".

These salespeople will do everything they can to get you on side. They will listen to and allay your every concern. They will have an answer for every question as they will undoubtedly be working from a script. There may be a worthless "money back guarantee" offered to you. They will cajole and reassure you at every step, as they work towards closing the sale. 


*Numerous generic promotional blogs, "reviews" of the business, and press releases*

Often one of the first steps those running an investment scam will take is to create dozens of fake reviews, promotional blog pages and generic press releases on free press report websites and popular free blogging platforms. They do this for a few reasons:


All of these pages will give the business an air of authenticity and may convince the casual reader that those who are using the service are making the promised returns.
When potential victims are cold called by the company and given the hard sell, the salesperson may even encourage them to Google the company name, knowing that they will find the fake pages rather than any genuine reviews or complaints. It is easier to close the sale if the potential victim is convinced that the company is genuine. 
When the eventual complaints start rolling in on forums, these fake blogs and reviews will often outrank those forums containing the complaints. This will enable them to keep the scam running for longer and rip off more people.
It is very important to remember that these fake blogs, reviews and press releases are very easy to create. It only takes a few minutes to create a blog and start posting on Wordpress or Typepad. Likewise it is a very simple process to write and post a press release on one of the dozens of free press release websites. It would be prudent to take anything you find on the web that fits this description with a grain of salt, as it is mostly likely not genuine and created by those running the scam.

Another tactic used by scammers is to get someone they know to register at forums where threads have been started by someone enquiring about the company and post as a satisfied customer. Some of them will forgo using a third party and post as a satisfied customer themselves. Ask yourself, how often have you scoured the internet looking for forum threads on companies that you are happy with just to post and defend them? I've never done it, and I sincerely doubt most people have. 

That's not to say that all positive reviews of a product or service are fake. Look for people who have been members of a forum for years and have hundreds or even thousands of posts to their name. These individuals are not "one post wonders" and have invested a lot of time at the forum, making their assessment more likely to be genuine.


*A quick word about licensing*

An AFSL or Australian Financial Services License is required to conduct a financial services business in Australia and authorises licensees to, amongst other things, provide financial product advice to clients. Obtaining an AFSL is not  simple, or easy, and it goes without saying that an investment scam will almost certainly not have one.  However, it is possible for an investment scam to be an "authorised representative" of an AFSL holder.

In the past there have been a number of companies holding an AFSL that have made a lot of money from renting out that license to others as authorised representatives. In late 2011 two of these companies, Mark Power Financial and Romad Financial Services had their AFSLs revoked by ASIC for not carrying out appropriate background checks before appointing authorised representatives and for failing to have measures that allowed them to determine whether its representatives complied with financial services laws.

While it is almost certain that an investment scam will not have an AFSL, it is possible that they may be an authorised representative of a company, or person, that does. The fact that a company is an authorised representative of an AFSL holder does not necessarily mean that they are running a reputable business.

In fact, many of these dodgy businesses that send out trading alerts or sell black box trading software are not required to be licensed because they are technically not providing financial product advice, specific financial advice or dealing in securities.


*Conclusion*

It needs to be said that just because a business meets one or two of the above criteria, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are operating a scam. However, the more of the above criteria a business meets the more suspicious you should be, and the more hesitant you should be to deal with them. 

The reality is that the amount of investment scams being operated out of Australia has reached epidemic proportions, and it is incumbent on everyone to conduct appropriate research into any company they are considering doing business with. The people operating these scams are thieves, and their only concern is extracting money from gullible people for the purpose of funding their own extravagant lifestyles. They will not hesitate to lie, misrepresent themselves, and their businesses to achieve that end.

Below are some additional resources from ASIC's MoneySmart website:

https://www.moneysmart.gov.au/scams/investment-scams
https://www.moneysmart.gov.au/scams/avoiding-scams
https://www.moneysmart.gov.au/scams/companies-you-should-not-deal-with
https://www.moneysmart.gov.au/investing/investment-warnings/investment-seminars

Report a scam here: https://www.moneysmart.gov.au/scams/report-a-scam


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## tech/a

Excellent Joe.

Even so there will be people who
Read this and STILL get scammed!


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## Gringotts Bank

Good one Joe.

I have two additions that I use myself.  Anyone who approaches me with any sort of proposal is suspect until I am satisfied otherwise.  *I* will do the approaching and *I* will do the asking of questions, not the other way around.  If it's the other way around, they are finished - game over and goodbye.  The other thing is if I feel uneasy in any way, that usually means the person is sleazy or a liar and that puts an immediate stop to everything.

Halifax comes to mind.  Talk about sleazy.


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## pixel

Thanks Joe,
Brilliant analysis; another reason to make ASF the Numero Uno in Stock Forums.


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## Joe Blow

Appreciate the feedback everyone! 

I've been slowly putting this together over a couple of months, adding parts as I thought of them. It will be nice to have a thread to send people enquiring about dodgy companies to. Hopefully the thread will also be found by those searching Google for "how to identify investment scam" and other similar search queries.

Feel free to add anything you feel I have not covered.


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## McLovin

Nice work Joe. Maybe make it a sticky too?


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## Joe Blow

McLovin said:


> Maybe make it a sticky too?




Done.


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## kahuna1

Great post Joe,

I would add.

Without risk there is NO possible return. The market prices risk, at times incorrectly, in fact most times incorrectly.

It is the role of a broker, an investment bank, a salesperson to get you to take on risk. It may be dressed up with lipstick and smell sweet but if it is promising potential returns it ALWAYS will have a risk. 

If someone sells you something and calls it low risk or no risk, walk away. having cash in the bank is a risk in itself. it may be an opportunity cost or being invested in stocks, it could be one day the bank goes bust, unlikely but there is some risk.

If you are being sold something promising 10% returns vs 3% cash rate and told the risk is small or not there, or a sure thing. Be 100% sure that the risk is not 10% its 20% or 30% or 50%. 

If you do not understand the risk you are taking, I would humbly suggest you don't take it. 

Sadly many people were sold investments call that pre GFC and they were sold them as sweet smelling things that were piles of DOG doo doo. It was not just scams but investment managers, banks and a lot of others. What happens is highly risky assets are bundeld together, sold as less risky ones and priced accordingly. Selling a pile of debt which is bundled with 100 other similar types of debt and called risk free as you have 100 of them in one pile, its just a bigger pile of doo doo.

Of course conversely NO ONE will get ahead with money NOT at risk sitting in a savings account. it is about understanding the risk and really understanding it.

If it sounds too good to be true. It is.

If its sold as risk free but paying massive returns, RUN.  

Cheers

Mark


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## tech/a

Hmmm what was it that you actually added???


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## pixel

Joe Blow said:


> Company or domain name registered recently
> 
> Good reputations take a long time to build, and genuine investment businesses will have been around for years. Scammers will register their company and domain name, create their website and get to work fleecing gullible people quickly. They know that most people will never bother to check when their company or domain name was registered, so this is not something they are usually concerned about.
> 
> You can find out the registration details of any domain name here: http://whois.domaintools.com/
> 
> You can find out information about a company, including when they were registered, by searching ASIC's registers here: https://connectonline.asic.gov.au
> 
> If the company or domain name of an investment business you are dealing with was registered recently, be very suspicious. It is most definitely a red flag.




Hi Joe,

wrt company names, the ASIC site you referred to doesn't seem to show all the useful details; I even drew a blank on some legitimate company names and ABNs.
http://abr.business.gov.au/Index.aspx is showing more information, including the dates when a company name was registered, its ABN, and whether it has the right to issue GST-compliant tax invoices.

wrt domain names, some companies may have changed, added, relinquished domain names several times. It also seems that the "whois" service shows the last date a registration has been renewed. I can only go by the result of my own domain name search. 
1. I utilise a web hosting service, which resides in a different State. (Could even be another continent.)
2. I renew my domain every 2 years; the report shows therefore the last change in May 2013.
3. On the free report, it says the domain name is older than 2 years. True. It's almost ten years!
Maybe the additional information is included in the full report, but that costs $49; maybe less if one were a paid-up member; but then - who is?


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## Whiskers

tech/a said:


> Excellent Joe.
> 
> Even so there will be people who
> Read this and STILL get scammed!




Agree on both counts.

It pays to have a healthy degree of cynicism of new things and maintain your scepticism radar.

For me at least the comment made by kahuna that "if you do not understand the risk you are taking, I would humbly suggest you don't take it"... is such a golden rule.

Might be a bit boring if you live in the moment, an adrenaline junkie, life is too short to waste type of temperament... but beats the hell out of being scammed.


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## ColB

Whiskers said:


> Agree on both counts.
> 
> It pays to have a healthy degree of cynicism of new things and maintain your scepticism radar.
> 
> *For me at least the comment made by kahuna that "if you do not understand the risk you are taking, I would humbly suggest you don't take it"... is such a golden rule.*
> 
> Might be a bit boring if you live in the moment, an adrenaline junkie, life is too short to waste type of temperament... but beats the hell out of being scammed.




I think the problem is that most of the numnuts that get scammed don't understand what 'understanding the risk you are taking' actually is!!


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## Joe Blow

Pixel, apologies for not replying yesterday.



pixel said:


> wrt company names, the ASIC site you referred to doesn't seem to show all the useful details; I even drew a blank on some legitimate company names and ABNs.
> http://abr.business.gov.au/Index.aspx is showing more information, including the dates when a company name was registered, its ABN, and whether it has the right to issue GST-compliant tax invoices.




Agree that the http://abr.business.gov.au/Index.aspx website is easier to navigate. ASIC redesigned the ASIC Connect part of their website some time ago and I have never quite gotten used to it, but still use it out of habit. I did a check on my company and am getting a registration date in the "Company Summary", although it does not seem to mention when a company registered for GST. However when I click on the ABN number it takes me directly to http://abr.business.gov.au/Index.aspx.

The one advantage of the ASIC Connect website is that it lists all company documents lodged with ASIC such as name, address and company officeholder changes. These documents can be purchased and I have had to do this a number of times when investigating suspected scam companies.



pixel said:


> wrt domain names, some companies may have changed, added, relinquished domain names several times. It also seems that the "whois" service shows the last date a registration has been renewed. I can only go by the result of my own domain name search.
> 1. I utilise a web hosting service, which resides in a different State. (Could even be another continent.)
> 2. I renew my domain every 2 years; the report shows therefore the last change in May 2013.
> 3. On the free report, it says the domain name is older than 2 years. True. It's almost ten years!
> Maybe the additional information is included in the full report, but that costs $49; maybe less if one were a paid-up member; but then - who is?




Agree that the initial domain registration date may not be the date it was registered by the current owners, although in my experience most scammers tend to register new domain names rather than pick up ones that have been dropped, although this is not always the case. In fact, sometimes scammers do deliberately search for dropped domains because it makes it look like they have owned the domain name for lot longer than they actually have.

For this reason, a whois lookup is only useful if the scammers have registered a domain name for the first time and the initial registration date is very recent. 

Another source of whois information is AusRegistry which I have found gives you the Registrant and Tech contact emails, which Domain Tools doesn't with .com.au domain names.


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## konayuki

Hi,

Is there any one dealing with the ATP?
Are they scammer?
Is there any one signed up their membership?


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## mabellemurphy

Very valuable information about how to prevent your investing a scam company. This is very useful information to stay away on the scam company.


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## Gregfinney

Great post!!

I agree to most but to some degree its not all bad for a website to ask for your contact details  , I did a Diploma in financial Planning and when I was looking I put my name and phone number into a website to get some information and got a call the next day, I was sceptical at first but went ahead after numerous calls from their "sales guys", had never done an online course before but worked out great and exactly what I was looking for.

I also did a Diploma in share trading and investment and again put my details on their website and got a call from their guys, they were genuine and no pressure, you either want to educate yourself or not and they give you the details, send you the info leave it to you to make the decision, I too done my research and found barely any bad feedback, confirmed their credentials and went ahead.

I've read so many stories about people getting ripped off by not doing the proper research and these virtual offices and companies with no FSL's are tell tail signs, but I found the 2 Diplomas I have done great.

The best decision I made was doing the Diploma of share trading and investment, it's giving me structure and now I trade full time and this all started from putting my details down on their website, I guess since they are both Diploma's they are and RTO's  and are a recognised qualification by the government.

So from my experience getting called from online courses that ask for your mobile number and details aren't all bad, after all its only a phone call what do you have to lose, just don't be naÃ¯ve and make a decision on the spot .

You just need to do your research and check for some of the obvious things stated in the post.

I have found share trading to be exactly what I want to do, its taken a few years to get to the stage I can trade fulltime, education is the key, now I don't have t fight the traffic everyday like most and have more time to enjoy life.

We all have to start somewhere, just be smart, and what seems to good to be true usually is.


Happy Trading everyone!!


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## bellenuit

I'm not really sure where to put this, but I found it a very interesting article. The typical investor would not likely have the resources or data access themselves to do this analysis, however Benford's Law is something I had heard of, but really only understood after reading this article. 

It would be fairly easy to prove that it is correct in principle by say taking the population of a town with 100 as the starting point and noting the yearly population if it was subjected to a 10% cumulative annual increase. Then noting (after a population just under 1,000 is reached) the number of yearly populations that begin with 1, 2 etc. You will find that the number beginning with 1 predominates, 2 less frequent, decreasing as you get to 9. Also once the population reaches 1,000 the frequencies between 1,000 (or closest number to it) and 9,999 should be the same as between 100 and 999 give or take some minor rounding and again the frequencies would repeat between 10,000 and 99,999 ad infinitum. 

Even though one would assume that populations are probably as random as you can get, it is clear that they would follow Benford's Law if one were to take a global snapshot at any particular moment in time.

*The Simple Mathematical Law That Financial Fraudsters Can't Beat*

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielf...ical-law-that-financial-fraudsters-cant-beat/


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## Jethro

Hi All, I write this with great pain and the lack of intelligence, I have subscribed to two not 1 investment packages from A Company called One Wealth (2x $19,500.00) and feel almost no not almost I FEEL SICK and stupid after reading the threads on this company. Can anyone help ? does ASIC know about them? Has ACA been notified ? Feeling Stupid, Suicidal, Agro and wanting Revenge. Jethro


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## Julia

How have they let you down/not delivered on their promises?

What were the amounts you handed over supposed to pay for?


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## burglar

Jethro said:


> Hi All, I write this with great pain and the lack of intelligence, I have subscribed to two not 1 investment packages from A Company called One Wealth (2x $19,500.00) and feel almost no not almost I FEEL SICK and stupid after reading the threads on this company. Can anyone help ? does ASIC know about them? Has ACA been notified ? Feeling Stupid, Suicidal, Agro and wanting Revenge. Jethro




Know the feeling, but suicide is not a correct response, as it is irrevocable.
i.e. If you don't suicide in the morning, something good may happen in the afternoon!

As for revenge, this may result in your being in gaol, whilst the scammer is still at liberty.

If you paid with credit/debit card, contact the card supplier, you may have some luck in getting your money back. This post refers:


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## Value Collector

burglar said:


> Know the feeling, but suicide is not a correct response, as it is irrevocable.
> L]




+1

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Losing money is a terrible feeling, it can be gut wrenching, but the pain does go away. The best thing you can do is try to learn as much as you can and report them to the authorities. You will get over this i promise you, please dont do anything rash, the sun will come up tomorrow, your family will still love you, and all life's simple pleasures will still be available.


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## burglar

Value Collector said:


> +1
> 
> Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
> 
> Losing money is a terrible feeling, it can be gut wrenching, but the pain does go away. The best thing you can do is try to learn as much as you can and report them to the authorities. You will get over this i promise you, please dont do anything rash, the sun will come up tomorrow, your family will still love you, and all life's simple pleasures will still be available.




You say it so much better than me!
I hope he listens!!!


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## luutzu

Value Collector said:


> +1
> 
> Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
> 
> Losing money is a terrible feeling, it can be gut wrenching, but the pain does go away. The best thing you can do is try to learn as much as you can and report them to the authorities. You will get over this i promise you, please dont do anything rash, the sun will come up tomorrow, your family will still love you, and all life's simple pleasures will still be available.




Yes, don't lose any more than what you already has.

In the end, it's only money. 
Money lost can be found again; 

Anger and sadness will soon turn to laughter and wisdom;
The dead can never be brought back to life.
[I just ripped off Sun Tzu, haha]

Trust me, your loved ones will not be as harsh on you as you already are on yourself.


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## ROE

Jethro said:


> Hi All, I write this with great pain and the lack of intelligence, I have subscribed to two not 1 investment packages from A Company called One Wealth (2x $19,500.00) and feel almost no not almost I FEEL SICK and stupid after reading the threads on this company. Can anyone help ? does ASIC know about them? Has ACA been notified ? Feeling Stupid, Suicidal, Agro and wanting Revenge. Jethro




Dont do anything that you will regret, our system is fairly weak dealing with scammers once you got scammed
prevention is the best medicine

Just cop it on the chin and write off as a very expensive lesson and take steps so you dont repeat the same mistakes or fall for the same sale pitch ...education is a powerful weapons against the scammers so take time and learn a bit about money and risk/return in general, money management is fair simple .... just take a bit of time and a bit of effort to educating yourself.

Plenty of people on this forum can answer most of your general money questions so all you have to do is ask or search existing topics.

If you doing it right that money can be recovered through better future return, with time and looking back it maybe the best things that happened to you as it wake you up and put you on the right path.


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## Cruzer

Jethro said:


> Hi All, I write this with great pain and the lack of intelligence, I have subscribed to two not 1 investment packages from A Company called One Wealth (2x $19,500.00) and feel almost no not almost I FEEL SICK and stupid after reading the threads on this company. Can anyone help ? does ASIC know about them? Has ACA been notified ? Feeling Stupid, Suicidal, Agro and wanting Revenge. Jethro






Jethro said:


> Hi All, I write this with great pain and the lack of intelligence, I have subscribed to two not 1 investment packages from A Company called One Wealth (2x $19,500.00) and feel almost no not almost I FEEL SICK and stupid after reading the threads on this company. Can anyone help ? does ASIC know about them? Has ACA been notified ? Feeling Stupid, Suicidal, Agro and wanting Revenge. Jethro




Hi Jethro, I am a relative newbie to this forum site, but not a newbie to 'life' so I've witnessed a few highs and lows over the years. 'Time' is the greatest healer following events like this so let the dust settle and in weeks or months  to come you will merely look back on this miserable occurrence as another one of life's curve balls; but hang in there as you will bounce back stronger and wiser.

I don't know anything about the organisation you are referring to but I'm assuming this was a type of 'black box' software or subscription service? Many people are scammed on a daily basis and I've been the victim of a few  ranging from credit card skimming to broker collapses which I incurred fairly substantial losses from so I empathize with the anger and frustration you feel. There are processes you can follow to attempt recovery and organisations which may be able to help you but you must focus firstly on your mindset and then tackle things methodically one step at a time.

I can direct you to some sources of assistance if you want? You are not the first to feel scammed and you won't be the last so don't curse yourself; things will get better once you get over the initial shock and there may be avenues open for a partial or full recovery?


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## dutchie




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## kriskros

Jethro said:


> Hi All, I write this with great pain and the lack of intelligence, I have subscribed to two not 1 investment packages from A Company called One Wealth (2x $19,500.00) and feel almost no not almost I FEEL SICK and stupid after reading the threads on this company. Can anyone help ? does ASIC know about them? Has ACA been notified ? Feeling Stupid, Suicidal, Agro and wanting Revenge. Jethro




Jethro, the people who run One Wealth are called API Associates. Here is the info.

http://newsfromatlantis.freeforums.org/api-associates-is-a-scam-company-t3193.html


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## Joe Blow

I have managed to obtain the telemarketer/sales spiel used by an investment scam company from a contact and am attaching it to this post as a PDF file.

If you are dealing with a company who is using a similar approach to the one in the PDF then cease dealing with them immediately.


----------



## Joe Blow

I have attached ASIC's Anti-hawking guidelines to this post.

Under the Corporations Act, a person must not offer financial products for issue or sale in the course of, or because of, an unsolicited meeting or telephone call. An offer includes inviting an application for their issue or sale. An offeror includes issuers and sellers of financial products, as well as their agents and representatives.

Investment scam companies usually ignore these kind of guidelines, so it's good to be aware of them. 

A breach of the hawking prohibitions is a criminal offence. The maximum penalties are:

(a) a fine of $2750 for an individual or $13,750 for a body corporate;
(b) 6 months gaol; or
(c) both.

The consumer may also have a right to:
(a) return the product; or
(b) undertake civil proceedings against the offeror

If a company you are dealing with has breached these guidelines, please report them here: https://www.edge.asic.gov.au/008/co...ails/t=a1e0bcc8e12ced7af0615edfe187153ae92cbf


----------



## drillinto

One book to read:"The money miners - The  great Australian mining boom" by Trevor Sykes; Allen & Unwin; 1995.

This is a story of greed, a story of those who were more interested in mining money rather than minerals.


----------



## Joe Blow

A useful article on forex and commodity scams/fraud: http://www.forexfraud.com/forex-scam.html


----------



## Joe Blow

Great article about cold-call investment fraud: https://www.police.qld.gov.au/online/Documents/ColdCallInvestmentFraud.pdf


----------



## Kerti

Hi

Do you mind sharing the name of the institute where u did your diploma course in share trading.

I have a similar senerio that fits my experience to. I have entered my details on a website to do a share trading course and I just got one call and few emails about the course and their trading strategies. VET FEE help also available to do the course but not sure if it's worth the money investing on the course. For a diploma in share trading it costs around $11,500. 

I  m currently looking to educate myself on share trading and understanding the strategies, psychology dealing, money management. Unable to decide if I need an institute to help me understand trading or self education and research is enough. The depth of the share market is infinite so just hanging loose where to start.

Thanks
Kerti



Gregfinney said:


> Great post!!
> 
> I agree to most but to some degree its not all bad for a website to ask for your contact details  , I did a Diploma in financial Planning and when I was looking I put my name and phone number into a website to get some information and got a call the next day, I was sceptical at first but went ahead after numerous calls from their "sales guys", had never done an online course before but worked out great and exactly what I was looking for.
> 
> I also did a Diploma in share trading and investment and again put my details on their website and got a call from their guys, they were genuine and no pressure, you either want to educate yourself or not and they give you the details, send you the info leave it to you to make the decision, I too done my research and found barely any bad feedback, confirmed their credentials and went ahead.
> 
> I've read so many stories about people getting ripped off by not doing the proper research and these virtual offices and companies with no FSL's are tell tail signs, but I found the 2 Diplomas I have done great.
> 
> The best decision I made was doing the Diploma of share trading and investment, it's giving me structure and now I trade full time and this all started from putting my details down on their website, I guess since they are both Diploma's they are and RTO's  and are a recognised qualification by the government.
> 
> So from my experience getting called from online courses that ask for your mobile number and details aren't all bad, after all its only a phone call what do you have to lose, just don't be naÃ¯ve and make a decision on the spot .
> 
> You just need to do your research and check for some of the obvious things stated in the post.
> 
> I have found share trading to be exactly what I want to do, its taken a few years to get to the stage I can trade fulltime, education is the key, now I don't have t fight the traffic everyday like most and have more time to enjoy life.
> 
> We all have to start somewhere, just be smart, and what seems to good to be true usually is.
> 
> 
> Happy Trading everyone!!


----------



## elbee

Kerti said:


> Hi
> 
> Do you mind sharing the name of the institute where u did your diploma course in share trading.





I think you will find that "Gregfinney" is a scammer.


----------



## RT14

Jethro said:


> Hi All, I write this with great pain and the lack of intelligence, I have subscribed to two not 1 investment packages from A Company called One Wealth (2x $19,500.00) and feel almost no not almost I FEEL SICK and stupid after reading the threads on this company. Can anyone help ? does ASIC know about them? Has ACA been notified ? Feeling Stupid, Suicidal, Agro and wanting Revenge. Jethro




Go through the regulator. Enough of us former clients did and looky kooky here, it took a while however for the good of everyone, we won:

http://www.search.asic.gov.au/cgi-bin/gns030c?acn=009247214&juris=9&hdtext=ACN&srchsrc=1


----------



## ConnorLockington

Excellent analysis joe !!!
I have also gone through the links that you have mentioned....


----------



## SirRumpole

The latest Bitcoin scam.

Amazing how seemingly intelligent people are still sucked in by this stuff.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07...teals-thousands-from-canberra-couple/11271742


----------



## basilio

SirRumpole said:


> The latest Bitcoin scam.
> 
> Amazing how seemingly intelligent people are still sucked in by this stuff.
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07...teals-thousands-from-canberra-couple/11271742




Clever little scam isn't it ?  Actually paid money back to people long enough to keep them hooked and prepared to throw in more.
It reminds of a similar very successful ponzi scheme back in the mid 200o's called PIPS (People in Profit system) . Again very convincing.  I watched a number of friends become convinced they were onto the Holy Grail
There are plenty of people who have been sucked into these schemes. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ponzi_schemes


----------



## SirRumpole

basilio said:


> Clever little scam isn't it ?  Actually paid money back to people long enough to keep them hooked and prepared to throw in more.
> It reminds of a similar very successful ponzi scheme back in the mid 200o's called PIPS (People in Profit system) . Again very convincing.  I watched a number of friends become convinced they were onto the Holy Grail
> There are plenty of people who have been sucked into these schemes.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ponzi_schemes




They have been going since the 1800's !

I thought they were a modern invention.


----------



## Joe Blow

SirRumpole said:


> The latest Bitcoin scam.
> 
> Amazing how seemingly intelligent people are still sucked in by this stuff.
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07...teals-thousands-from-canberra-couple/11271742




These scammers tried to swindle ASF visitors but were exposed instead: https://www.aussiestockforums.com/threads/good-forex-bitcoin-broker.34057


----------



## PZ99

Joe Blow said:


> These scammers tried to swindle ASF visitors but were exposed instead: https://www.aussiestockforums.com/threads/good-forex-bitcoin-broker.34057



Whoa! Darn 'em - glad my ip didn't go in their databases


----------



## SirRumpole

Joe Blow said:


> These scammers tried to swindle ASF visitors but were exposed instead: https://www.aussiestockforums.com/threads/good-forex-bitcoin-broker.34057




An excellent advertisement for this site Joe !


----------



## sptrawler

What is that old saying about, if it sounds too good to be true?


----------



## Mr Z

If they contact me first then it can't be good.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut

When the CEO who started off peddling AMP Insurance policies from a run down office buys his own Executive Jet.

gg


----------



## Value Collector

I generally can recognize I scam within 30 secs of reading about it, but I find it crazy that my friends and family can’t, and I get emails and face books messages from them asking if I think these things are good investments.

I recently had a “cousin in-law” (if that’s a thing), ask me if the bit coin scam mentioned above was a good investment.

This was my reply.

“Looks like a scam to me.
I have seen these sorts of scams a million times offering automated trading platforms that promise big returns.
They have made the article appear to be reporting on a family that was interviewed on tv, but I bet that interview never happened.
The are using bitcoin as medium of the trading platform, because a lot of people have heard of bitcoin, but in the past I have seen similar scams marketed saying they will trade shares, currencies, commodities, options, horse racing bets etc etc.
But in reality it’s a ponzie scheme.”


----------



## snilson

fb are 99% scams..


----------



## tinhat

Hi sn, I'm interested to hear of your opinion that 1% of fb are not scams. How do you identify those 1% of fb that are not scams?


----------



## snilson

sorry tinhat, 100% are scams.. however, I cannot say this with certainty. therefore I limit myself to 99% ..


----------



## tinhat

snilson said:


> sorry tinhat, 100% are scams.. however, I cannot say this with certainty. therefore I limit myself to 99% ..




Hi snilson. Thanks for your response. Do you have any particular approaches to fundamental or technical or esoteric analysis or systems that you use?


----------



## basilio

Excellent stories in The Guardian on an international scam coming from Ukraine.
The scammers have now brought all the operations under one umbrella They start with the simple "you beaut" crypyo currency investment scam.

They then move onto "Your investment has just gone up 1000% but to get out cash you need to pay a commission" . That shakes out more money.

When the target realises they has lost thsouands they get sent to the "recover your money"  department.  They start scamming their  suckers for further finds to recover what they have already lost. 

All started on Facebook using the faces of big name people as lures.  Well worth reading.
*Honestly this is one time you should make an absolute pest of yourself with friends who might be duped*. This sort of scam preys on the desperation of people are in trouble and looking for a way out.

Download, Save it . Be willing to send it on to people ho may ask your advice. Excellent detail.

* Revealed: fake 'traders' allegedly prey on victims in global investment scam *
Suspected fraudsters lure investors with fake ads featuring celebrities such as Gordon Ramsay

An army of more more than 200 fake “traders” based in Ukraine have been persuading victims all over the world to part with their savings, according to a whistleblower from the operation who describes it as a huge investment scam.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...dly-prey-on-victims-in-global-investment-scam

* 'Swindled with bitcoin': Australian victims count cost of online finance scam *
An estimated $100m has been wheedled out of people around the world in a crytocurrency scam run out of a Kiev call centre. We talk to four victims
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2...ian-victims-count-cost-of-online-finance-scam


----------



## debtfree

@basilio I've Bookmarked your post in case I need it for future reference, many thanks to you and others in this thread.


----------



## noirua

Chinese police seized crypto assets worth $4.2B today from PlusToken Ponzi
					

Court filings from Nov. 19 show that a large volume of crypto assets, including Bitcoin and Ether, was seized from seven convicts in the PlusToken case.




					cointelegraph.com


----------



## basilio

Came across this story of  a long medical scam run by a once famous physician.

I post it because the whole article examines many similar issues undermining  new stem cell discoveries and other  projects that promise far more than they can deliver. Just a cautionary tale. 

Dr Con Man: the rise and fall of a celebrity scientist who fooled almost everyone​Surgeon Paolo Macchiarini was hailed for turning the dream of regenerative medicine into a reality – until he was exposed as a con artist and false prophet

Scientific pioneer, superstar surgeon, miracle worker – that’s how Paolo Macchiarini was known for several years. Dressed in a white lab coat or in surgical scrubs, with his broad, handsome face and easy charm, he certainly looked the part. And fooled almost everyone.

Macchiarini shot to prominence back in 2008, when he created a new airway for Claudia Castillo, a young woman from Barcelona. He did this by chemically stripping away the cells of a windpipe taken from a deceased donor; he then seeded the bare scaffold with stem cells taken from Castillo’s own bone marrow. Castillo was soon back home, chasing after her kids. According to Macchiarini and his colleagues, her artificial organ was well on the way to looking and functioning liked a natural one. And because it was built from Castillo’s own cells, she didn’t need to be on any risky immunosuppressant drugs.


This was Macchiarini’s first big success. Countless news stories declared it a medical breakthrough. A life-saver and a game-changer. We now know that wasn’t true. However, the serious complications that Castillo suffered were, for a long time, kept very quiet.









						Dr Con Man: the rise and fall of a celebrity scientist who fooled almost everyone
					

Surgeon Paolo Macchiarini was hailed for turning the dream of regenerative medicine into a reality – until he was exposed as a con artist and false prophet




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Smurf1976

basilio said:


> Suspected fraudsters lure investors with fake ads featuring celebrities such as



As a generic comment:

If it's endorsed by a celebrity then that itself is a huge red flag. Only exception being if the reason the person is famous is due to actual business or investment etc (eg Warren Buffet is legit in that regard, some random chef or actor certainly isn't).

If the company website has a focus on senior management and not on the actual business then that's another red flag. It's the business version of identity politics with all that entails - stay clear.

Anyone who undertakes high profile "stunts" to prove things which are already proven is a massive red flag. For example n 2021 it's not even remotely close to any sort of achievement to simply drive a completely standard common car around the country on sealed roads. Even a 1950's car can do that quite easily so long as it's in good order - might be slower, noisier and far less comfortable and safe than a modern one but it can certainly get there. That reality of being completely unremarkable didn't stop a certain company using that exact stunt a few years ago to promote themselves - needless to say that one didn't end well for investors.

Anyone who claims to be doing something which breaks the laws of physics most likely is breaking some laws, just not laws of the physics variety. Stay very well clear - perpetual motion machines don't work no.

Any company that states potential revenue in great big bold figures but says nothing at all about costs or that the revenue estimate is based on capturing 100% of a market that doesn't actually exist is another one. It's not totally impossible it might succeed, but there's far more hype than substance in most such claims.

Any company with zero relevant experience who's jumped on board the latest "hot" sector is biggest red flag of the lot. Think "mining company reinvents itself as 5G communications company" sort of thing. Run for the hills.


----------



## rederob

Scope of problem:



Of course the iceberg is much bigger, as many investors are reluctant to reveal they got took!
Breaking it down further (for all categories):


----------



## basilio

Bernie Madoff has died in prison. He seems to hold the record for the biggest Ponzi scam of all time. Longest running, most losses . Clean sweep.

Came across this story in Invesotpedia that gives a good over view of his life and scams. IMV well worth a thought as the stockmarket races to ever new heights and multiple investment opportunities present themselves at every turn . 









						Bernie Madoff: Who He Was, How His Ponzi Scheme Worked
					

Bernie Madoff was an American financier who ran a multibillion-dollar Ponzi scheme that is considered the largest financial fraud of all time.




					www.investopedia.com


----------



## dyna

An american lawyer found guilty of laundering $US 400 million for One Coin is to be sentenced next month.
The FBI estimates Australians lost about $A 770 million in 2019 by buying OneCoin tokens that turned out to be worthless.


----------



## dyna

Oops,got the grammar wrong,there folks.Should read "In 2019 the FBI etc".
Further to the those tragic aussies,one poor bugger lost $A100,000,his life savings, in the One Coin ponzi scam.Worldwide,losses were in the billions of Euros, 4 Bill,maybe even E 15 Bill.The self-styled "Crypto-Queen",Dr. Ruja Ignatova is still missing,though not now thought to be dead.According to the BBC,she could be in hiding in Frankfort where the ex and their kid still reside.Her brother,Konstantin was nabbed at LAX just as he was about to board a plane back to..you guessed it,Bulgaria!He did a plea deal with the cops and appeared as star witness against the lawyer.


----------



## dyna

Today's AFR reports NSW police are investigating a fraud ring sending out fake high- yield prospectuses.A 31 year old Sydney man put $100,000 into what he thought was a Nomura corporate bond fund.Because he initiated the contact, he didn't suspect a scam after providing his details on a Google comparison website,then getting the follow-up phone call from the dubious salesperson.
A British scam has been targeting customers of HSBC Australia, Pimco and Vanguard via a phishing try-on.The fraud rings have so far this year ensnared $Millions from its victims,who go into Google with those fatal words "retiree","high yield" and"compare investments".


----------



## Dona Ferentes

dyna said:


> Today's AFR reports NSW police are investigating a fraud ring sending out fake high- yield prospectuses. .Because he initiated the contact, he didn't suspect a scam after providing his details on a *Google comparison website*, then getting the follow-up phone call from the dubious salesperson.
> A British scam has been targeting customers of HSBC Australia, Pimco and Vanguard via a phishing try-on. The fraud rings have so far this year ensnared $Millions from its victims,who go into Google with those fatal words "retiree","high yield" and"compare investments".



and the fake sites


> The _Financial Review_ found fake comparison websites such as *Clearvest.com.au, Compare-investments.com.au, Marketing-aus.com or Investmentcompare.com.au *that were returned as the lead result on Google under certain searches.


----------



## basilio

> Today's AFR reports NSW police are investigating a fraud ring sending out fake high- yield prospectuses. .Because he initiated the contact, he didn't suspect a scam after providing his details on a *Google comparison website*, then getting the follow-up phone call from the dubious salesperson.
> A British scam has been targeting customers of HSBC Australia, Pimco and Vanguard via a phishing try-on. The fraud rings have so far this year ensnared $Millions from its victims,who go into Google with those fatal words "retiree","high yield" and"compare investments".



and the fake sites       

           The _Financial Review_ found fake comparison websites such as *Clearvest.com.au, Compare-investments.com.au, Marketing-aus.com or Investmentcompare.com.au *that were returned as the lead re
sult on Google under certain searches.        

Just read the AFR story and this is an exceptionally clever scam.  Well worth a close read. In essence it seems to be an effective ID steal exercise  of firstly legitimate traders and then  investors which enables the scammers to extract funds at will.

_These sites have exploited the powerful reach of search engines, allowing the scammers to commit identity theft on an industrial scale. Financial crime experts now fear those stolen identities will be used multiple times to establish fake banking and trading accounts around the world.

The scammers have also adopted the names and identities of real-life investment bank staff, only for the funds – in parcels as high as $200,000 – to disappear through the cryptocurrency ecosystem and be sent offshore.

.....According to recorded calls of the scam, heard by AFR Weekend, victims are passed between a number of fake employees – interspersed with various iterations of hold music and concocted regulatory warnings *– before they are asked to produce a series of proofs-of-identification, such as a passport and a water bill.
*
Then victims are asked to deposit funds into a number of bank accounts – due to a spurious claim that financial investment legislation requires the companies to set up segregated accounts that they do not directly control.









						Millions vanish into crypto world in high-yield bond scam
					

Small Australian investors have been duped by sophisticated criminals who exploited vulnerabilities in the country’s cryptocurrency infrastructure.




					www.afr.com
				




.....But as the fraud ring has copies of the victim’s identification, they are able to set up trading or payment accounts in the name of the victim – all without their knowledge. When the funds are deposited through a normal BPAY transfer, the money can then be accessed immediately by the fraudsters and transferred to a safe haven, putting it beyond the reach of Australian authorities_


----------



## dyna

Last Thursday's AFR has a terrifying story from the UK's Financial Times. A small hedge fund manager came soooo close to losing 10 Million Euro during a bank transfer.For months the hackers had studied the writing style of his contacts,waiting and watching,before infiltrating the transaction.At the eleventh hour,this super cautious operator had a hunch something might not be kosher and made a phone call.Luckily,the bank had been a bit busy and had delayed taking action for 24 hours! Close call.


----------



## dyna

From today's AFR. The ACCC's SCAMWATCH indicates that of the 19,000 email phishing attacks that have cost victims $900,000 so far this year, it only represents 13% of those scammed, to have actually reported it to authorities.
The paper publishes a quite convincing email (that cost one potential renter on the hacked Domain website, his rental bond of $5,600 ) Although the scammers cleverly requested the fund transfer to the currently absent landlord, in NZ (close to home right?) ,the true destination was somewhere else via Kansas or Singapore .
Separately, more fraudulent high yield bond prospectuses are once again appearing on Google. The latest only a week ago. Investors hand over their contact details, then get the spin phone calls. All with British accents, impersonating employees of legit investment banks.
Google, which made $150,000 in just one month from old mate Mr. Mawhinney's Mayfair 101 scam, has seriously slipped up in failing to completely shutdown all of these fund promotions.


----------



## dyna

ACCC's Targeting Scams  latest data (for 2020) was released today . Losses are reckoned to be $851Million ,well up on the $634Million for 2019. Of all the frauds, investment scams remain the big one, worth $328Million.
Today's AFR tells the sad tale of a 53 year old injured, former builder,who just last month, lost $40,000 to a forex scam over the phone with WhatsApp. Many younger ones in the 25 to 34 age group are getting into trouble with cryptocurrency scams.If only these unfortunate people could have found this wonderful forum ,first.The true amount lost is probably well over a $Billion.Next year? Likely to be much more.Leaving your hard earned savings in a nil interest bank account is a safer bet than looking on-line for something else.More education could stop this scandalous situation right now.


----------



## dyna

PWC's research finds 85% of scam attacks involve a victim doing something they shouldn't :
                   Opening the wrong email.
                   Clicking the wrong link.
                    Visiting the wrong website.

Get those 3 simple things right and we, dumb-as -dirt Aussies, would not be losing at least a $ Billion of savings every single year.


----------



## basilio

dyna said:


> PWC's research finds 85% of scam attacks involve a victim doing something they shouldn't :
> Opening the wrong email.
> Clicking the wrong link.
> Visiting the wrong website.
> 
> Get those 3 simple things right and we, dumb-as -dirt Aussies, would not be losing at least a $ Billion of savings every single year.




That is really rough Dyna..  And I suspect quite simplistic and  inaccurate.

The whole point of a successful scam is creating a story or situation that seems quite plausible and ends up persuading someone to take the next steps. Yes one needs to have ones wits about you but coming up with those comments is not useful.

To take it to extreme. If one was incarcerated in a high security cell with no access to phones or the net or in fact anyone - than there would be zero chance of being scammed. 

Going one step back if you had no phone or net access then your risk of being scammed could also drop substantially.


----------



## basilio

ABC has a very detailed story on a successful scam which is certainly at the top end of credibility.

Really worth spending some time understanding how this one works becasue I'm sure many people here have been looking for a few extra percent on their savings









						'I felt sick': Inside the 'sophisticated' investment scam that tricked Tony into handing over $200,000
					

Tony Papagiannopoulos googled some investment options. Two weeks later he was frantically trying to recover most of his life savings.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## basilio

Some ASF posters might remember the Nikola truck debacle from last year.
Long story short. Trevor Milton promised a revolutionary hydrogen powered truck that was going to revolutionise the transport industry.
He almost got away with creating a $34Billion company and getting General Motors to pony up $2Billion to be in play.

Just before pay day a company that specialized in researching questionable projects with a view to short selling the stock published an analysis of Nikola Motors that demolished  Trevor Milton. Check Hindenburg Research story

The wheels fell off Nikola Motors 

This video examines Trevor Miltons history and the process of deception that cost investors billions.










						Nikola: How to Parlay An Ocean of Lies Into a Partnership With the Largest Auto OEM in America
					

(NASDAQ:NKLA) Today, we reveal why we believe Nikola is an intricate fraud built on dozens of lies over the course of its Founder and Executive Chairman Trevor Milton’s career.We have gathered exte…




					hindenburgresearch.com


----------



## So_Cynical

basilio said:


> ABC has a very detailed story on a successful scam which is certainly at the top end of credibility.
> 
> Really worth spending some time understanding how this one works becasue I'm sure many people here have been looking for a few extra percent on their savings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'I felt sick': Inside the 'sophisticated' investment scam that tricked Tony into handing over $200,000
> 
> 
> Tony Papagiannopoulos googled some investment options. Two weeks later he was frantically trying to recover most of his life savings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.abc.net.au



Interesting read basilio, scamming is such a massive industry that we can only expect it to get bigger and more sophisticated.
​


----------



## Rabbithop

tech/a said:


> Excellent Joe.
> 
> Even so there will be people who
> Read this and STILL get scammed!



Too right. Luckily, I came  into this Forum tonight n read this scam.
I had a couple of calls last week n was busy to talk. He was going to c asll me back monday, tomorrow. My answer will be No, not signing up with that amt of dollars to pay.


----------



## tech/a

Hang up and block the number don’t even talk to them


----------



## Garpal Gumnut

One line against scammers suggested to me is as follows, but I am unsure whether it is legal or not.

_Scammer : Am I speaking to Mr. Garpal Gumnut.
gg              : Yes you are, how may I assist you. 
Scammer : I would like to introduce you ... etc. 15% monthly return ... etc. Need to move fast... etc.
gg.             : Before you go any further I have Reverse ID Version 666 on my phone and I have decided should you ever try to contact me again or share my details with anyone or indeed to relate this conversation to anyone,  to deliver serious harm to you and your loved ones both in Australia and overseas. I know exactly where you are sitting and who you have called in the last 72 hours, where you live, your family and where they live and everything about you. Now go ahead please. _

Does this qualify as menace using a communication device or harmless banter against a fraud?

Just asking for a colourful friend whose name I am unable to recall who I met at a boxing match here in Townsville last year.

gg


----------



## UMike

How to identify an investment scam?​*When they post **flashone 30 links in 30 minutes. Does it ever hook anyone in?*​


----------



## qldfrog

UMike said:


> How to identify an investment scam?​*When they post **flashone 30 links in 30 minutes. Does it ever hook anyone in?*​



Scam or at least spam...


----------



## Garpal Gumnut

I fail to see why Financial Literacy is not taught to schoolchildren from Grade 1.

A recent Scam test on a scale of 1-10 was posted on the ABC. I scored 10/10 for being scam proof. 

Some of the mistakes that cause citizens in Australia to lose $Billions amaze me by their transparency.

The gullibility of the uneducated average punter amazes me even more. 

Why teach useless sh*te and have classes full of disruptive morons is beyond my understanding. 

Spending on education is more important than spending on health. 

gg


----------



## basilio

I'm just not sure how easy/simple it is to identify "investment" scams.

For example for years I was very aware of the extremely dubious agricultural projects being promoted by financial advisors.  Pine Plantations,  Blue Gums, stone fruit, whatever.  These were theoretically   honest investments but a little digging would uncover many serious  problems.  I'm certain many ASF posters can identify a score more.

Are these less of an investment scam because they have a veneer of legal propriety ?

Perhaps we are talking more about deception here? I noted elsewhere how  exceptionally effective one of the latest  deception techniques has  proven. Capturing a persons mind and heart and then their wallet is an age old technique of  con artists either individually or, as in the case of this scam, a carefully scripted office environment.





__





						Pig-Butchering Scam – Stop A Scammer
					





					stopascammer.com


----------



## Belli

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I fail to see why Financial Literacy is not taught to schoolchildren from Grade 1.
> 
> A recent Scam test on a scale of 1-10 was posted on the ABC. I scored 10/10 for being scam proof.
> 
> Some of the mistakes that cause citizens in Australia to lose $Billions amaze me by their transparency.
> 
> The gullibility of the uneducated average punter amazes me even more.
> 
> Why teach useless sh*te and have classes full of disruptive morons is beyond my understanding.
> 
> Spending on education is more important than spending on health.
> 
> gg




Besides the curriculum being overloaded with all the "Why don't they teach...." requests, the major flaw in your proposals is......

How do you know those who are potentially teaching financial literacy are financial literate themselves?


----------



## basilio

I also reflect on some of the big failures of companies I was invested in. I can accept that nothing is certain, that projects might not work out  and that genuine errors can be made.

But IMV that wasn't the case with Linc Energy for example. The company knew its technology was failing from an early stage and just covered it up and left an emvironmental disaster behind


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## divs4ever

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I fail to see why Financial Literacy is not taught to schoolchildren from Grade 1.
> 
> A recent Scam test on a scale of 1-10 was posted on the ABC. I scored 10/10 for being scam proof.
> 
> Some of the mistakes that cause citizens in Australia to lose $Billions amaze me by their transparency.
> 
> The gullibility of the uneducated average punter amazes me even more.
> 
> Why teach useless sh*te and have classes full of disruptive morons is beyond my understanding.
> 
> Spending on education is more important than spending on health.
> 
> gg



 maybe Grade 1. is pushing the envelope but certainly before the end of Primary school  ( and maybe some lightweight economics woven into  the basic maths at high school )

 BTW those 'disruptive morons' are often bored out of their minds because they got it the first time ( or knew that already  )

 even back in my school years ( 1960's ) many  teachers  confused indoctrination with education ( preferring extensive repetition to showing how that stuff was useful in real life )

 now we could go on a whole extra debate on who was to blame for that 

 education administration  that  put 40 plus children in a class ( and mixed up intelligence levels ) or  the curriculum  that straight-jacketed the course and lessons  , the teachers themselves many who barely graduated Junior ( grade 10 ) 

but yes many important things are NOT taught in primary school  that could be interwoven  into  basic classes like English and Maths ( and maybe Social Studies )

 now an interesting topic might be how do we spend the education better ( or do we just home school  the children , in this age of Zoom , You-Tube/internet )


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## divs4ever

basilio said:


> I also reflect on some of the big failures of companies I was invested in. I can accept that nothing is certain, that projects might not work out  and that genuine errors can be made.
> 
> But IMV that wasn't the case with Linc Energy for example. The company knew its technology was failing from an early stage and just covered it up and left an emvironmental disaster behind



don't forget that major investor ( in Linc ) that is still too big to let fail  ( in fact probably got ANOTHER bail-out recently ), nobody seemed to pursue them 

 ( disclosure i had a very nice run in LNC  but that was a combination of luck , instinct and skepticism  )


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## Belli

By relying entirely on the education system it removes all responsibility of parents to be involved.  And most school leavers probably couldn't give a rats about it anyway.  Too many other things to do.


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## Garpal Gumnut

Belli said:


> By relying entirely on the education system it removes all responsibility of parents to be involved.  And most school leavers probably couldn't give a rats about it anyway.  Too many other things to do.



That is why it needs to be embedded in the curriculum from Grade 1.

Dollar mites in G1.

When maths is taught move on to compound interest etc ...

History ... Tulips, GFC, Magellan Finance.

gg


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## DannyB0000

With the internet and cold calling anyone can claim they are somewhere and they’re not, you can’t believe everything written on the internet is legit.

If you bother reading the news, educate yourself about these scams, they stand out, easy to spot.

If some random person claiming to be from an investment firm calls you of the blue, it’s best to hang up, don’t rush into things.  I think it’s better to visit these investment firms in person rather than do everything on the internet, scammers use fake websites to trick people.


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## divs4ever

Belli said:


> By relying entirely on the education system it removes all responsibility of parents to be involved.  And most school leavers probably couldn't give a rats about it anyway.  Too many other things to do.



given  my age ( closing in on 70 ) many of my peers either have already fallen for those scams ( and learned something the hard way ) or have survived in blissful ignorance.
  so not only do THEY not have a solid financial education , but neither will their children or grandchildren ,
 so how can the parents  pass on the knowledge they themselves don't have 

 now i don't expect every school-leaver to have the equivalent of a CFA ( or CPA ) but certainly sufficient wisdom to ask pertinent questions of their financial adviser  and wise enough to sense when something is awry


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