# Dividend yielding stocks



## fatmango (28 December 2012)

I have been trying to find out which stocks offer higher dividend returns. Telstra is one I know of. can anyone point me in the right direction to how I can locate which stocks offer a dividend return.


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## psailagroup (28 December 2012)

Hi,

Have a look at http://www.asx.com.au/asx/markets/dividends.do

There are plenty of stocks that offer dividends but at different yields.


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## systematic (28 December 2012)

AFR share tables might serve your purpose? e.g. the ASX200 table has a dividend yield column.


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## pixel (28 December 2012)

fatmango said:


> I have been trying to find out which stocks offer higher dividend returns. Telstra is one I know of. can anyone point me in the right direction to how I can locate which stocks offer a dividend return.




For my own analysis at any time that suits *me*, I've written an Excel spreadsheet described here:
http://rettmer.com.au/TrinityHome/Services/index.htm#_Prev6

It isn't restricted to any subset of the ASX, but accepts any number of ASX codes that I request. The worst that can happen is a nite saying, No dividend announced or None paid.


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## fatmango (28 December 2012)

thanks - lots of info here.


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## Daffyduck (28 December 2012)

fatmango said:


> thanks - lots of info here.




One more for ya that might help:  http://www.sharedividends.com.au/


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## So_Cynical (28 December 2012)

And another one.

http://asxinvestordata.blogspot.com.au/2012/12/asx-dividend-yields-28-dec-2012.html


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## Julia (28 December 2012)

That list might be a bit misleading.  Aren't we used to seeing yield quoted p.a.?  That appears to be just the most recent half yearly dividend.


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## willstor (29 December 2012)

I went into prg at 1.90 currently CD... Will no doubt take an initial hit but come back above 2 bucks all being well!


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## sydboy007 (6 January 2013)

depends how big or small you want to go.

Big caps seem to have been well bid up the last few months, so while the yields can still be better than a TD, esp when including franking credits, they're not quite as high as I want for the added risk, but if you have a minnimum 3 year investment I'd say the risks are OK.

Moving down into the mid and small caps there's still quite a few offering good franked yields.

BSA / SGN / AAD are some I've bought into.  At the smaller end but 9+% yield with franking credits (at least on my buy in price)

IHD / ARG / AFI are also good ETF / LICs that provide diversity and 6%+ franked yields.  ARG and AFI being closed LICs are not out trying to constantly chase new money.  They do have DRPs, but they are able to be patient investors.  They consistently beat the market and have low management fees < 0.5% which makes them a better deal that most funds - lower fees and higher performance.

I see dividends as the bird in the hand, capital gains as 2 in the bush.  The market can't take back my dividends, but it can steal the capital gains so very quickly.  I still remember the bloodbath of the GFC on my super fund, so these days I'm focusing on income and hope over time the market will reward those companies that consistently grow profits, increase their dividends, and plod along nicely thank you 

Exciting is not a term I want in the same sentence as my investments.


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## willstor (22 January 2013)

willstor said:


> I went into prg at 1.90 currently CD... Will no doubt take an initial hit but come back above 2 bucks all being well!




Closed out at 2.02 with a nice dividend.


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## white_goodman (24 January 2013)

sydboy007 said:


> I see dividends as the bird in the hand, capital gains as 2 in the bush.  The market can't take back my dividends, but it can steal the capital gains so very quickly.  I still remember the bloodbath of the GFC on my super fund, so these days I'm focusing on income and hope over time the market will reward those companies that consistently grow profits, increase their dividends, and plod along nicely thank you
> 
> Exciting is not a term I want in the same sentence as my investments.





best way to do it, also allows you to average in (which ideally you dont do with speculation) and the dividends mentally make it easier to sit on paper losses. I see dividend stocks as growth stocks atm, as the rush towards divvies is already under way... TLS being an example


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## Tyler Durden (24 January 2013)

white_goodman said:


> best way to do it, also allows you to average in (which ideally you dont do with speculation) and the dividends mentally make it easier to sit on paper losses. I see dividend stocks as growth stocks atm, as the rush towards divvies is already under way... TLS being an example




Sorry, but what do you mean by average in?


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## white_goodman (24 January 2013)

Tyler Durden said:


> Sorry, but what do you mean by average in?




dollar cost average


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## So_Cynical (24 January 2013)

Tyler Durden said:


> Sorry, but what do you mean by average in?






white_goodman said:


> dollar cost average




Can you at least try and buy the dips... strict monthly averaging really bothers me.


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## Julia (24 January 2013)

So_Cynical said:


> Can you at least try and buy the dips... strict monthly averaging really bothers me.



+1.  
Why would you not take advantage where you can?


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## Garpal Gumnut (24 January 2013)

Julia said:


> +1.
> Why would you not take advantage where you can?




It seems that Financial Advisers are now trying to put clients in to " dividend yielding stocks ". 

They are too late imo.

There is a seriously grave danger of another GFC.

I got in to these stocks 12 mo + ago.

And if they drop suddenly and catastrophically I will still have good divies.

I'm talking WBC, WDC etc.

My advice is to avoid these atm, and go for the next best thing, oilers, biotech, infrastructure and services.

Just my thoughts.

gg


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## boofis (24 January 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> There is a seriously grave danger of another GFC.




Curious as to why you are willing to put yourself in a position of going long while holding the view that everything might crash when there are plenty of shorting opportunities elsewhere, which is what you're predicting or leaning towards, no?


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## Garpal Gumnut (24 January 2013)

boofis said:


> Curious as to why you are willing to put yourself in a position of going long while holding the view that everything might crash when there are plenty of shorting opportunities elsewhere, which is what you're predicting or leaning towards, no?




I trade on a very very long time frame.

I only trade long.

I see no need to be like a monkey grabbing peanuts in front of 3 monitors.

I am also not afraid of loss if a long term gain is in the offing.

I am also not afraid to be wrong.

My gumnuts are back this month to GFC Day minus 1. ( probably later than most )

I buy and sell.

I am about 32.84% invested in the ASX.

I am waiting and riding the present wave, and waiting, either for a collapse or a move up.

Just my way.

gg


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## boofis (24 January 2013)

All fair points but I do find your 2nd commandment questionable at best! 

I just don't understand why you wouldn't want to profit (or have the option of hedging against loss) by being able to go short as well as your current method.


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## Garpal Gumnut (25 January 2013)

boofis said:


> All fair points but I do find your 2nd commandment questionable at best!
> 
> I just don't understand why you wouldn't want to profit (or have the option of hedging against loss) by being able to go short as well as your current method.




Good point.

One needs a different mindset/skills to short.

I tried it and lost.

I just don't have the skills either ingrained or learnt to profit from it.

gg


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## boofis (25 January 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Good point.
> 
> One needs a different mindset/skills to short.
> 
> ...




Respect. Knowing when something 'works for you' and when it doesn't is a fine display of self awareness.


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## Wysiwyg (8 November 2014)

Julia said:


> Surely you'd be better off investing that cash in , say, high yield shares where you'll generate around 7.5% grossed up yield and possibly capital gain as well?




Wondering Julia, what is paying 7.5% grossed up with possible appreciating share price from here? I have present share price ANZ at 7.73% grossed up this CY using a company tax rate of 30% (actually 29.3%).


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## Julia (8 November 2014)

Wysiwyg said:


> Wondering Julia, what is paying 7.5% grossed up with possible appreciating share price from here? I have present share price ANZ at 7.73% grossed up this CY using a company tax rate of 30% (actually 29.3%).




I don't understand your question, other than your correction that the grossed up yield is presently running at 7.73% rather than my quoted *approx* 7.5%.
Are you suggesting that ANZ has no potential for increase in SP?
Whatever, it's surely better than the at call rate of under 4%, isn't it?


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## Wysiwyg (8 November 2014)

Julia said:


> I don't understand your question, other than your correction that the grossed up yield is presently running at 7.73% rather than my quoted *approx* 7.5%.
> Are you suggesting that ANZ has no potential for increase in SP?
> Whatever, it's surely better than the at call rate of under 4%, isn't it?




That's okay. I will present the same question another way with further explanation. You posted on another thread :-



> Surely you'd be better off investing that cash in , say, high yield shares where you'll generate around 7.5% grossed up yield and possibly capital gain as well?




My interpretation of that sentence is the portfolio would be generating around 7.5% grossed up yield. Now for the portfolio to generate that approximation it would have some high yielding constituents at or above that figure. This is the only way to achieve such a high dividend yielding portfolio. 

My example, ANZ, is a high yielding stock that is around your 7.5% figure. 

The question I asked is what stocks are paying around 7.5% grossed up yield with possible appreciating share price from here?  

Now onto your question.



> Are you suggesting that ANZ has no potential for increase in SP?




I didn't suggest anything but in answer to your question, with a high dividend yielding stock such as ANZ with dividends increasing year on year, there surely will be an attraction to them.


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## Julia (9 November 2014)

Wysiwyg said:


> That's okay. I will present the same question another way with further explanation. You posted on another thread :-
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OK, so you just wanted me to give you a list of such stocks.  I'd rather not.  Could be seen as advice.
Any of the banks fulfil that criteria.  TLS is another.  All made decent capital gains on top of the grossed up yield.



> I didn't suggest anything but in answer to your question, with a high dividend yielding stock such as ANZ with dividends increasing year on year, there surely will be an attraction to them.



I can't comment.  Can only say that as long as the cash rate remains so low that will keep at least the funds of many Super investors in them.


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## herzy (9 November 2014)

Julia said:


> OK, so you just wanted me to give you a list of such stocks.  I'd rather not.  Could be seen as advice.
> Any of the banks fulfil that criteria.  TLS is another.  All made decent capital gains on top of the grossed up yield.
> 
> 
> I can't comment.  Can only say that as long as the cash rate remains so low that will keep at least the funds of many Super investors in them.




The thread referred to had an investment time period of 40-odd years. With that in mind, it seems logical to invest in high-yielding stocks with good prospects rather than cash. 

I agree with Julia that TLS, the banks etc, are preferable to cash at the moment, despite currently high prices.


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## Julia (9 November 2014)

wysiwyg. a high yielding stock is MND (Monadelphous), a market darling for a few years.  Now yielding 10% plus 100% franking.
If you're looking for yield, would you go for this, and maybe say why or why not?


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## orr (9 November 2014)

I have to admit the the idea of yield mixed with a chance of gain? is that what we're here for?.. I've just looked back over this thread, a post by Sydboy listed a few stocks. So I looked at a couple. For those interested have a look at the SNG thread in this forum read the last post and then check the stocks performance for the next six months, from that post on your own research. got to love the work of the chartists.


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## pinkboy (9 November 2014)

Julia said:


> wysiwyg. a high yielding stock is MND (Monadelphous), a market darling for a few years.  Now yielding 10% plus 100% franking.
> If you're looking for yield, would you go for this, and maybe say why or why not?




Discussed here:

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28781


pinkboy


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## Wysiwyg (9 November 2014)

Julia said:


> wysiwyg. a high yielding stock is MND (Monadelphous), a market darling for a few years.  Now yielding 10% plus 100% franking.
> If you're looking for yield, would you go for this, and maybe say why or why not?



Thanks Julia.
I bought in at $12.14 last market pullback and after considering skc's posts I sold at $12.49. Likelihood of an appreciating share price is a consideration I favour when making decisions on stocks. I feel it prudent to wait for this particular stock. There are some high fliers that have fallen a long way and hence their yield has risen which makes them very alluring but not wise if there is a possibility of further share price downside and then compounded by a dividend cut.


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## Wysiwyg (9 November 2014)

orr said:


> I have to admit the the idea of yield mixed with a chance of gain? is that what we're here for?.. I've just looked back over this thread, a post by Sydboy listed a few stocks. So I looked at a couple. For those interested have a look at the SNG thread in this forum read the last post and then check the stocks performance for the next six months, from that post on your own research. got to love the work of the chartists.



Speculation on price movement is the other game in town. SNG is not a listed FPO stock on the ASX.


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## pixel (9 November 2014)

Wysiwyg said:


> Speculation on price movement is the other game in town. SNG is not a listed FPO stock on the ASX.




Reckon orr made a typo. Syd's stock was SGN, which may have fallen since over the last 18 months, but is still paying over 8cps FF; so I guess it meets Syd's criteria as a reasonably profitable yielding share.
As are four of Syd's other 5 selections: AAD, AFI, ARG, IHD.
Check out the dividends at the ASX site. IHD's looks spectacular:
http://www.asx.com.au/asx/markets/dividends.do?by=asxCodes&asxCodes=ihd&view=all


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## Wysiwyg (9 November 2014)

herzy said:


> T
> I agree with Julia that TLS, the banks etc, are preferable to cash at the moment, despite currently high prices.



All divvies mentioned are grossed up and prices are the low for those years so best case scenario. As an example of an attractive dividend yield relative to price.

Telstra (TLS)

2007 Low of $4.17 = 9.5% -- Pretty good hey
2009 Low of $2.93 = 13.6% -- Fantastic
2011 Low of $2.64 = 15.5% -- Now where raking it in
2014 present  $5.77 = 7.3% -- Oh, bit of a hit but still good

Telstra would be a great dollar cost averaging strategy I reckon because they have a stable dividend payment and not really worth waiting for or trying to pick a lower share price entry for a higher return.


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## Julia (9 November 2014)

pinkboy said:


> Discussed here:
> 
> https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28781
> pinkboy



Thanks for that, pinkboy.



Wysiwyg said:


> Thanks Julia.
> I bought in at $12.14 last market pullback and after considering skc's posts I sold at $12.49. Likelihood of an appreciating share price is a consideration I favour when making decisions on stocks. I feel it prudent to wait for this particular stock. There are some high fliers that have fallen a long way and hence their yield has risen which makes them very alluring but not wise if there is a possibility of further share price downside and then compounded by a dividend cut.



Yet another reason to be grateful to skc for his wisdom.
Despite the high yield, I wouldn't be touching MND in the current environment of commodity price volatility and the unwinding mining situation.  It was a great stock to hold from 2009 through to 2013 when the SP went from around $5 up to nearly $30.


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## luutzu (9 November 2014)

MND is one of the best run company out there. I could look very smart, or very foolish, in a few years time with it. I can tell you it's been making me looking really foolish for a while. 

I haven't looked at its latest annual report, but had a good look over some ten years and very impressed.

Yes, the past could be just that... but it's been around some 40 years... there's at least a couple of mining boom and bust in that time. That and its financial position is sound, its returns are amazing, and its management always seem to know how to acquire and integrate other businesses. The businesses they acquire actually expand the groups sales and profits, and further diversify and extend/integrate current services with the new.

It's not just into construction/engineering, a major earning stream is site maintenance. It did see the decline in mining a few years back and moved into infrastructure like waste/water management. Its C/E business, from memory, is not just mining but for a couple years now dominantly in LNG.

MND is a good case to see if one ought to make investment decision based on current position and historical performance or ignore that and peek into the "obvious" future.


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## So_Cynical (10 November 2014)

WMK - Watermark market neutral fund, paid 5 CPS FF divi last year and currently trading at around 96c so a gross yield of 6.7% ~ for a fund with 90% of is cash in Bonds, that's a pretty good yield.


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## galumay (10 November 2014)

luutzu said:


> MND is one of the best run company out there. I could look very smart, or very foolish, in a few years time with it. I can tell you it's been making me looking really foolish for a while.




I agree, i have taken a position in MND recently for my SMSF, the whole sector has been grossly oversold. I worked for the last 20 years in the mining industry and people just dont understand how it works, sure the 'boom' has finished for now, but most mining companies will continue to operate, just not with the rapid expansion seen previously. Mining services companies will still be widely used to support the ongoing operations. 

The mining companies always contract out a fair amount of trades work because its simply less economic to do it in house. This will continue and any mining services companies with the capability, low debt and good management will continue to be profitable thru the cycle. 

MND, NWH and a few others are fantastic contrarian buying at the moment, and the yields are amazing if you get in now.


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## Klogg (10 November 2014)

galumay said:


> MND, NWH and a few others are fantastic contrarian buying at the moment, and the yields are amazing if you get in now.




You can buy $1.17 of NTA (plus franking credits) in NWH for < 70c at the moment. Granted you have to look at a lot of factors, including at asset quality, resale value of assets and whether or not management might have cost blowouts (and other factors), but it does indicate a good place to start.


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## skyQuake (10 November 2014)

Klogg said:


> You can buy $1.17 of NTA (plus franking credits) in NWH for < 70c at the moment. Granted you have to look at a lot of factors, including at asset quality, resale value of assets and whether or not management might have cost blowouts (and other factors), but it does indicate a good place to start.




NWH has other things driving the price at the moment. imo you're better off buying after 25th Nov


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## McLovin (10 November 2014)

galumay said:


> I agree, i have taken a position in MND recently for my SMSF, the whole sector has been grossly oversold. I worked for the last 20 years in the mining industry and people just dont understand how it works, sure the 'boom' has finished for now, but most mining companies will continue to operate, just not with the rapid expansion seen previously. Mining services companies will still be widely used to support the ongoing operations.




There will still be work, but when you look at pre-boom (2003) things like asset utlisation, ebit margin, wc etc you do get some idea of where the industry is going. There's going to be a lot of spare capacity for years. If you only look at the last 5 or 10 years then you're only looking at boom years. MND was a tiny company until the resource boom. Occam's razor would suggest the reason they got big was being in the right place at the right time.

Between 2002 and 2007 EBIT went from ~$7m to ~$88m, margin roughly doubled over the period from 4.5% to 9%. At the same time revenue exploded from $150m to $970m. In the preceeding five years (1998-2002) it hadn't moved. As an example of the uplift in asset utilisation, in 2002, PPE as % of revenue was 10.7%, in 2007 it had fallen to 6.4% in 2014 it was 4.6%. 

That uplift occurred against the backdrop of this...




Which won't be repeating anytime soon. I don't think we're near the bottom yet for mining services stocks.


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## galumay (10 November 2014)

skyQuake said:


> NWH has other things driving the price at the moment. imo you're better off buying after 25th Nov




Thats a fairly odd comment! Care to enlighten us with what you are referring to, i would reckon the 25th Nov will have the opposite effect on price and buying after then will cost you more.


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## McLovin (10 November 2014)

galumay said:


> Thats a fairly odd comment! Care to enlighten us with what you are referring to and what importance 25th Nov has?




AGM


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## galumay (10 November 2014)

McLovin said:


> Which won't be repeating anytime soon. I don't think we're near the bottom yet for mining services stocks.




We will have to wait and see! There is an enormous amount of extra activity as a result of the 'boom' and even though the rate of expansion has come to an end there is a lot of work supporting that extra capacity that is still required. 

The big miners have no appetitie for doing that work in house and will always contract most of it out, the better quality contractors will continue to find work in that space.

The cyclic nature of the industry means its likely we will see another 'boom' in the future which the surviving contractors will be best placed to take advantage of.

I certainly wouldnt want too much of my capital allocated to this sector, but I do believe there are a couple of good quality yield companies in the crop and I think that they are currently priced at a discount to value.


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## Wysiwyg (10 November 2014)

One word - cyclical. These sectors don't turn on a whim. If anything, the well established and diversified will survive. Nice perspective post McLovin.


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## Julia (10 November 2014)

Wysiwyg said:


> One word - cyclical. These sectors don't turn on a whim. If anything, the well established and diversified will survive. Nice perspective post McLovin.



+1.  As usual.

It's also interesting how the comments above so clearly reflect our differing approaches, ie contrarian/value type on the one hand and price action oriented on the other.


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## skc (10 November 2014)

For yields play I think certain sections of the property trust sector (REITs) still offer *good relative value
* in terms of yield. E.g. TIX, TOF, GMF, AJD, GOZ etc all offer over 7.5%-8% yield (unfranked)... as opposed to the larger trusts (e.g. SGP, GPT, DXS etc) which are anywhere between 4.5-6%.

The sector is obviously very sensitive to interest rate movements so dividend stability is as good as your own outlook on interest rates.

Some of the stocks are quite narrow in terms of asset base (e.g. they may only have 5 to 8 properties) so some of the higher yield reflects concentration risks (i.e. if one property doesn't lease well it is a meaningful % impact to the company's income). However, you might be able to diversify away such risk by holding a collection of them at smaller size, so adverse outcome in one of the names won't impact your overall portfolio anymore than if you invested in a single diversified REIT.


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## Ves (10 November 2014)

McLovin said:


> Which won't be repeating anytime soon. I don't think we're near the bottom yet for mining services stocks.



I am still thinking the same....

The hit to revenue due to shrinking asset utilisation is one thing.   

But when you add this to shrinking asset bases then the hit to the bottom line starts looking exponential (just like it did in reverse on the way up).   

For instance...  say I had $200m in assets.   ROIC was 80% at peak.    $160m EBIT.   Bottom of cycle 25% ROIC $50m.   

Now additionally halve the asset base to $100m.   25% ROIC.  $25m EBIT.  Now it's an 85% fall from peak to trough.    And that's a hypothetic company earning 2-3x  their cost of capital,  which is a generous assumption in itself.  

I did some rough calculations on MND.   Asset base and ROIC is shrinking,  even on near-term estimates.    Whole of cycle EBIT,   at a guess,  probably wouldn't lead to an FCF yield of more than 5-6% at current prices.    I'd be interested if it was closer to 15% (at least then if I'm wrong,  I'd probably still get half of that....)


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## skyQuake (10 November 2014)

McLovin said:


> AGM




1pm on the 25th, and index flow shenanigans at the close.


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## DeepState (10 November 2014)

galumay said:


> I agree, i have taken a position in MND recently for my SMSF, the whole sector has been grossly oversold. I worked for the last 20 years in the mining industry and people just dont understand how it works, sure the 'boom' has finished for now, but most mining companies will continue to operate, just not with the rapid expansion seen previously. Mining services companies will still be widely used to support the ongoing operations.
> 
> The mining companies always contract out a fair amount of trades work because its simply less economic to do it in house. This will continue and any mining services companies with the capability, low debt and good management will continue to be profitable thru the cycle.
> 
> MND, NWH and a few others are fantastic contrarian buying at the moment, and the yields are amazing if you get in now.




Not being from the mining industry, I was wondering what you are seeing.

The company is now experiencing declining revenues and deteriorating margins.  The gross margin is the lowest since 2005.  The operating margin is the lowest since 2005 also.  In other words, it is losing scale benefits across the P&L.  

Here is the outlook as presented by management themselves.

First, here is the breakdown of revenue by end customer.  Please note that the mix has been changing away from resources and into energy.  A good portion of that is simply because the resources segment has shrunk.  This includes maintenance contracts.





Here are the segment outlooks as presented by management in investor communications.




Although the data above relates to Australia, the exposure to offshore is not going to be a swing factor.

Please note how the outlook for energy is weak over the medium term. This is the biggest customer segment now.  Resources is not expected to do much. Further, (change in) maintenance is not particularly influential as an offset against the movements in the construction blocks. 

The combination of the above is not rosy for the company's outlook unless you believe they will dramatically increase market share.  It coalesces with very gentle language from the CEO which says that revenue is going down.

One of the reasons why dividends are so high is that management has wound back capex to levels not seen since 2004.  It is distributing part of the surplus cashflow, boosting dividends and sacrificing future growth for lack of perceived opportunities.  Capex is declining and, on the basis of their outlook, will decline further.  Companies wind back capex when the outlook as they perceive it is not strong.  As a result the hard operating assets have shrunk to the lowest level since 2010 and will shrink further as they are not being replenished at a sufficient rate.

Either management is not credible because they are far too pessimistic in their forecasts, or they are credible and seeing a much weaker outlook than is being supposed.

What are you seeing?

Valuation concerns are to the side as they have not been raised by you.  The stock might still be cheap despite the above.  However, the stock may well have been cheap with a low DY than a high DY.  DY in isolation doesn't mean that much.  That is, unless you perpetuate them for valuation purposes, in which case there is a grievous error being made.


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## skc (10 November 2014)

DeepState said:


> Here are the segment outlooks as presented by management in investor communications.
> 
> View attachment 60215




I remember seeing this chart in the presentation and thought... someone ought to plot the 4 sub charts on the same vertical scale and see the relative size of resource/energy vs maintenance. MND's core strength is in it's top tier build-to-spec capability; maintenance work on the other hand is much simpler. Simpler = more competition = lower margin. Relying on that sub segment for overall company growth doesn't present the most awesome outlook.


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## McLovin (10 November 2014)

Ves said:


> I am still thinking the same....
> 
> The hit to revenue due to shrinking asset utilisation is one thing.
> 
> But when you add this to shrinking asset bases then the hit to the bottom line starts looking exponential (just like it did in reverse on the way up).




Yerp. It's already happening. Asset base is shrinking. As contracts start to roll and new work becomes scarce margins will follow. The big money has always been in the build not the maintenance. FWIW, MND would be interesting below $5, imo. I also think we'll get there at some point.

ETA: Maybe a mod could move this convo to the MND thread.


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## galumay (10 November 2014)

DeepState said:


> What are you seeing?




Well for one thing I am seeing my language was a little exuberent! "fantastic contrarian buying" is colourful to say the least!

I do think the market has over reacted to the ending of the resources 'boom', its not a belief that i can quantify, its perhaps dangerous exactly because its informed by my long and deep involvement in the industry - and sometimes thats more dangerous than knowing nothing about the business!

My belief is that there will be consolidation, some of the debt ridden and poorly managed contractors will go under in the current position of the cycle, the base line work in resources, energy and maintenance will sustain those survivors and they will be the first to benefit on the next upswing of the cycle.

If I am correct then they will deliver good yield through the transition, at their current prices, and then a recovery in share price as the cycle changes. As you point out the better companies are wallowing in cash, precisely because of the downturn and no short term opportunities for cap ex at any great rate, this will support the high yeolds at least for a couple of years.


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## skc (10 November 2014)

galumay said:


> Well for one thing I am seeing my language was a little exuberent! "fantastic contrarian buying" is colourful to say the least!
> 
> I do think the market has over reacted to the ending of the resources 'boom', its not a belief that i can quantify, its perhaps dangerous exactly because its informed by my long and deep involvement in the industry - and sometimes thats more dangerous than knowing nothing about the business!




As Confucius says, it's difficult to explain the concept of water to a fish. Great stuff for you to be able to see both sides of the coin.   

Speaking to some of my mining friends... most are actually worried about their job. A FIFO guy who just fired 100 people last year knows that he only still has a job because they need him to do more firing - what a $hit position to be in. 

However, regardless of what industry and what stage the industry is in, I guess there will always be conflicting anecdotes.



galumay said:


> My belief is that there will be consolidation, some of the debt ridden and poorly managed contractors will go under in the current position of the cycle, the base line work in resources, energy and maintenance will sustain those survivors and they will be the first to benefit on the next upswing of the cycle.




I share these beliefs.



galumay said:


> If I am correct then they will deliver good yield through the transition, at their current prices, and then a recovery in share price as the cycle changes.




But not these.


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## DeepState (10 November 2014)

galumay said:


> Well for one thing I am seeing my language was a little exuberent! "fantastic contrarian buying" is colourful to say the least!




Thanks for sharing the fuller contents of your view.  I was just curious.  I hope it works out for you in the longer term which you seem to be looking at as a horizon.  I hope to join your journey at the low tic of the next decade.

As for exuberance, why the heck not!


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## galumay (10 November 2014)

Thanks to all of you, RY, skc, McLovin & Ves. 

Its so valuable to have ones preconceptions and convictions questioned, it always makes me go away and reconsider my judgements. I love that feeling of ones own psycology behaving just like the textbooks!!

If I went just on emotions, following some reading of detailed and financial arguments in favour of this sector being underpriced in another forum, I would have poured capital into them.

Then having read your reasoned and compelling justifications of your positions I would have sold out straight away!

Instead I shall hang on to the 2 positions I have (NWH & MND), hope I am a bit right, rather than entiely wrong, and let my patience go to work!!

Thanks again for all your thoughtful contributions.


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## luutzu (10 November 2014)

galumay said:


> We will have to wait and see! There is an enormous amount of extra activity as a result of the 'boom' and even though the rate of expansion has come to an end there is a lot of work supporting that extra capacity that is still required.
> 
> The big miners have no appetitie for doing that work in house and will always contract most of it out, the better quality contractors will continue to find work in that space.
> 
> ...




That's a great advantage to have worked in the industry like that. 
Maintenance are usually more profitable than the construction phase, and who better to maintain the facilities than the guys that designed and built most of it - the piping, electrical systems along with the main structures.

This should, at least, carry it over until the next mining cycle or/and the infrastructure/LNG division kicks off another phase in the company. From its 2014 AR, Oil and Gas works made up 40.6% of business while infrastructure only 2.3%. So it's not entirely dependent on mining; that and it just got started in infrastructure. So who knows what's really ahead.

MND's profit margin has been relatively stable over the boom years and even with decline in sales last year, its margin is still the same or slightly higher. Its cash and financial position is strong and the MD alluded to possible acquisition ahead soon. When you got the cash and have further borrowing capacity, this might be the best time to pick up smaller rivals or bulk on acquisitions at bargain prices.

One of Fisher's question was: Has the company been fortunate or fortunate and able; or fortunate because it is able.

I agree that the last mining boom was good for them, but they seem to have the people and system in place to ride it well and established themselves. So maybe they could managed into the future and adapt and find new opportunities - which they appear to have been doing at least a couple of years back before the real decline in mining works.


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## sydboy007 (10 November 2014)

For pure yield with little in the way of potential capital growth

AKY, AYD, AYH, AYJ, AYK - predominately corporate bonds

AYF - various hybrids (have quite a bit in my SMSF for the reliable 40c div with 5c franking credits)

FST - child care / medical centres

Options with capital growth

CMG - current forecast is nigh on 10% with franking credits on top.  Seems they're rebuilding momentum since the drop off before the election last year.

TGA - I keep reading good things about them.  Very much regretting not buying in when a newsletter I subscribe to recommended them over a year ago at $1.80ish.  They're now at $2.50 with a 12c full frank dividend.

JBH - seems to be riding the litle increase in consummer spending occuring with an 86c div fully franked.

ETFS with a decent yield

IHD, RDV, VHY

Some international ETFs are now offering decent yields

WDIV, HHV

I think with the new(ish) normal 5-6% yield is about where I want to aim for in terms of risk / reward.


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## McLovin (11 November 2014)

galumay said:


> If I went just on emotions, following some reading of detailed and financial arguments in favour of this sector being underpriced in another forum, I would have poured capital into them.




Anecdotally, I'd say the best time to buy is when the no one is talking about a stock in the other forum.


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## pixel (28 June 2016)

Just in time to count for the current FY, a large number of stocks will go ex-div tomorrow.
The Last Yield in the attached spreadsheet is the yield of this present payout, including any franking credits, based on the share price at the time the program was run - about half an hour ago (local Perth time).

View attachment EOFY-DiviJun2016.xls


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## MrBurns (28 June 2016)

Might be time to get back into the banks and TLS for yield .....


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## Newbunymo (10 August 2016)

LDOS
MMLP
NYMT
GMLP
WMC
I think investing here can also help


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## ukulele (10 August 2016)

Are those australian codes?


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## Newbunymo (3 November 2016)

If you don’t want to expose your investments to relatively less-known companies with risky business models, one potential way out is to buy solid dividend-paying stocks with staggered quarterly payout schedules. For example, you can build your dividend-paying portfolio by picking stocks with monthly dividend stocks.


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## Dona Ferentes (27 September 2022)

Usually dividends this high >10% are not sustainable


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## Value Collector (27 September 2022)

Dona Ferentes said:


> Usually dividends this high >10% are not sustainable
> 
> View attachment 147360



Yep, either 

1. the dividend will drop  

or

2. the share price will rise, 

either way long term the dividend yield will return to normal.

The good money gets made when you find companies of the 2nd type, then you get two bites at the cherry, you get to put your money away today at a high income yield, and then at some point down the road when the share price corrects higher, you book a solid capital gain.


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## divs4ever (27 September 2022)

Value Collector said:


> The good money gets made when you find companies of the 2nd type, then you get two bites at the cherry, you get to put your money away today at a high income yield, and then at some point down the road when the share price corrects higher, you book a solid capital gain.



 assuming of course , you wish to sell  such a nice little money-maker ( in the future )

 for example when i first bought into  GRR ( around 2011 ) i was just happy a 20c share was paying about  a cent a year in divs.

 now the share price didn't rise much ( until the last two years )  but the divs kept tickling in 

 i was ALMOST tempted to take some cash off the table in recent highs  , but the divs. are nice  are the company is comfortably conservative ( so far )


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## InsvestoBoy (27 September 2022)

Dona Ferentes said:


> Usually dividends this high >10% are not sustainable
> 
> View attachment 147360




Especially difficult to use trailing 2021 DPS when trying to determine yield sustainability since it has been such a crazy couple of years.

For example (not that I am saying analyst consensus EPS/DPS is spot on) forward DPS for VEA is 17c so the forward yield is more like ~6.2%.


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## InsvestoBoy (27 September 2022)

For those playing at home, Yahoo Finance equity screener supports screening for forward dividend yield...









						Stock Screeners - Yahoo Finance
					

Find Yahoo Finance predefined, ready-to-use stock screeners to search stocks by industry, index membership, and more.  Create your own screens with over 150 different screening criteria.




					finance.yahoo.com


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## InsvestoBoy (27 September 2022)

VHY also tracks an index (FTSE Australia High Dividend Yield Index) which is partially constituted from forward dividend yield...





						Products
					

Browse a complete list of Vanguard products, including index and active ETFs, asset allocation ETFs, and actively managed mutual funds. Our full product list view provides financial advisors with performance details and investment information for our complete lineup of low-cost ETFs and mutual...



					www.vanguard.com.au
				





			https://research.ftserussell.com/products/downloads/FTSE_Australia_High_Dividend_Yield_Ground_Rules_r.pdf


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## divs4ever (28 September 2022)

InsvestoBoy said:


> VHY also tracks an index (FTSE Australia High Dividend Yield Index) which is partially constituted from forward dividend yield...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 during the period i held both VHY and VAS  ( about 10 years )  both ETFs were DRPed     now VAS gave the superior capital gains  VHY  courtesy  of the DRP ( proportionately higher divs , matched with a lower unit price )  gave superior growth  ie number of units 

 so when chasing div. returns , throw an extra calculation is for participating in the DRP  ( SOMETIMES the DRP is the cherry on top )


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