# Weighing up Saving/Investing vs. Fun/Spending/Overseas Travel



## ENP (7 April 2012)

I've got a slight dilemma. 

I'm 23 years old, working full time and saving 33% of my income. I live on about 33% of it (rent' food, bills, petrol, etc) and the rest I set aside the remaining 33% for a mix of longer term bills (car repairs, dentist, doctor, etc) and spending (sports, movies, weekends away, etc)

However, this really doesn't leave enough wriggle room for me to set aside money for bigger ticket spending items, such as a new sports gear (that is a mix of need and want) and a Contiki that I've been wanting to do for the last couple of years. 

I really enjoy saving, getting ahead and investing and seeing my money grow. 

However, I seem to be depriving myself of the fun times and resist spending money on my passions that I really enjoy for the sake of seeing my bank balance and share trading accounts growing. 

How do you find the balance between the two? I don't want to be at one extreme and live a life of luxury and spend all I earn and then spend more. But I don't want to be on the other side of the coin and be a cheap penny pincher either. 

I don't want to miss out on the fun times in my early 20's because I didn't want to spend money, but then I don't want to look back when I'm 30 and wish I had saved more so I could live in a better house or have more money and let compounding do it's thing over time too. 

Help!


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## Starcraftmazter (7 April 2012)

*Re: Weighing up Saving/Investing vs Fun/Spending/Overseas Travel*



ENP said:


> I don't want to miss out on the fun times in my early 20's because I didn't want to spend money, but then I don't want to look back when I'm 30 and wish I had saved more so I could live in a better house or have more money and let compounding do it's thing over time too.




I hear ya buddy! I'm only a big younger than you, and it does suck I agree. When you start your life there is little cash, and every purchase has a massive opportunity cost.


My rule is to never spend money on discretionary items which I didn't earn through investing/trading. This way your investment capital will grow and you will steadily be able to purchase more and more.

Also do not forget the getting used to things principle. That is, if you experience a significant upgrade in your life - such as a better unit/house to live in, a sexier car, etc - while it will make you very happy at first, your overall happiness level will retract to where it was previously pretty damn quickly as you will then get used to this new change in life.

And obviously this has some big repercussions. You wouldn't want to buy a $100,000 sports car, only to feel pretty "Meh" about it in half a year or so.

Remember - it's the little things in life which count, and the best things in life aren't things


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## Smurf1976 (7 April 2012)

*Re: Weighing up Saving/Investing vs Fun/Spending/Overseas Travel*

Looking back when you're 30 or 35, you will remember (sort of) the nights out, the parties, trips away, cars, music festivals and so on.

You will not remember the $100 T-shirt or what mobile phone you had. Nor will you have any lasting fond memories of the designer jeans or any other over-priced stuff you bought.

I've always been more toward the "geek" end of the scale but to be honest, if you're going to spend $ having fun then you're much better off doing so via travel agents, nightclubs and festivals than spending it on phones or clothes.

Fundamentally, it's one of those "grass is always greener on the other side" situations. Save all your money and you'll wish you'd got drunk more often and actually knew one DJ from another. Party every weekend and you'll wish you'd saved and weren't stuck in a rented house when you're 35 trying to save a deposit.

My personal opinion is that saving 33% of your money is not unreasonable depending on what your actual income is but it's certainly above what most would consider normal. But if I was spending a third of my income on bills then I'd be very seriously looking at how to get those bills down as that seems unnecessarily high to me.

Maybe spend 50%, 20% for bills, 30% to invest would be a better mix? Need to do something about those bills I think - 33% seems far too high if you're living in a rented place and therefore not paying rates, repairs, insurance etc and the rent money isn't included in this figure.


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## Julia (7 April 2012)

*Re: Weighing up Saving/Investing vs Fun/Spending/Overseas Travel*

ENP, well done for even thinking about it, something many your age don't bother to do.

I'd suggest having a think about what your long term plan is and then work backwards from there.
e.g. do you want to support a family?  If so, when do you see that happening?
If in the next ten years then you probably need to save toward that end, including a deposit to own a property.

If you don't anticipate a long term committed relationship, then you have a lot more freedom of choice.

We're all so different in how much we need in order to feel financially secure.

It's often said that when we are about to take our last breath, few of us will say "I wish I'd worked harder".  I'd guess few of us also would be saying "I wish I had more money now that I'm dying".

I doubt that these comments are at all helpful to you.  When I think about being your age, I don't regret any of the saving or any of the partying.
The very fact that you're considering the question and putting it up here is to me an indication that you're well on the way to working out what will long term be best for you.

Best of luck.


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## Tyler Durden (7 April 2012)

*Re: Weighing up Saving/Investing vs Fun/Spending/Overseas Travel*



Starcraftmazter said:


> My rule is to never spend money on discretionary items which I didn't earn through investing/trading. This way your investment capital will grow and you will steadily be able to purchase more and more.




I like this, will try to keep it in mind, thanks 



Smurf1976 said:


> Looking back when you're 30 or 35, you will remember (sort of) the nights out, the parties, trips away, cars, music festivals and so on.
> 
> You will not remember the $100 T-shirt or what mobile phone you had. Nor will you have any lasting fond memories of the designer jeans or any other over-priced stuff you bought.




Very true.


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## CanOz (7 April 2012)

Forget about your twenties, if you save and invest you'll have twice as much fun in your thirties when you actually know something about the world. Head down bum up until your thirtieth birthday!

By that time you'll have better taste, be a better conversationalist, and be better equipped financially to have fun. 

Spoken from the total value of Hindsight.



CanOz


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## moXJO (7 April 2012)

Just party and enjoy as much as you can in your 20's. You will be looked upon as to old to do it in your 30's-40's
You have a used by date


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## VSntchr (8 April 2012)

Im 22 and thus am faced with similar decisions.

I have decided to move back in with my parents after moving out last year. Despite having more fun moving out...the simple fact of very cheap rent combined with shared expenses (internet, electricity, water etc) which are often overlooked...enable me to save a massive chunk of my income while still being able to go and have fun.

I try and spend as little as possible on clothes, shoes, phones (all items really), and keep as much as I can to save/invest and also a large amount to travel and have fun. 

In my opinion so long as you can keep the compounding working in your favour throughout your early to mid twenties then your doing well.


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## Smurf1976 (8 April 2012)

moXJO said:


> Just party and enjoy as much as you can in your 20's. You will be looked upon as to old to do it in your 30's-40's
> You have a used by date



Too true. Whether we like it or not, we are all very constrained by what society sees as acceptable for our age.

Primary school - you'd better get this one done by the time you're about 12. Being their much beyond that isn't an option.

High school - get this one done in your teens. Technically it's possible to go back as a mature age student, but it's not the norm.

Partying, clubbing etc - your options there start declining past your mid-20's so either do it now or it's not going to happen.

Same goes for every other stage of life. We may well spend 80 or so years on this planet, but for much of what we do our actual lifespan is relatively short. You only really get a few years worth of decent partying, just as you get a short window to become a professional sportsperson, rock star or anything else. Most activities have a pretty limited timeframe in which they are achievable for most people. 

So far as overseas travel is concerned, well that doesn't have such an age limit. But forget it once kids come along and if you're doing it past your early-30's then you'd better be happy with the idea of going alone since you'll have trouble finding friends still able to consider such a trip given family responsibilities etc.


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## Glen48 (8 April 2012)

NEVER get a girl pregnant or you can forget about every thing you planned for the next 290 Yrs..
Read up on CSA.


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## McLovin (8 April 2012)

ENP said:


> However, I seem to be depriving myself of the fun times and resist spending money on my passions that I really enjoy for the sake of seeing my bank balance and share trading accounts growing.




Spend the money and live a little. You're only in your 20's once. 

And for Heaven sake, don't do Contiki.


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## McLovin (8 April 2012)

Smurf1976 said:


> So far as overseas travel is concerned, well that doesn't have such an age limit. But forget it once kids come along and if you're doing it past your early-30's then you'd better be happy with the idea of going alone since you'll have trouble finding friends still able to consider such a trip given family responsibilities etc.




Exactly. I'm doing a bit of a roadtrip this year (London to Mongolia) and I've got heaps of friends who "would have done it but...".


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## CanOz (8 April 2012)

McLovin said:


> (London to *Mongolia*)




Take  a fly rod!

CanOz


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## Smurf1976 (8 April 2012)

Every single person I know managed to blow a lot of money in their 20's somehow.

Those who were into cars blew a fortune that way. Buy a car, spend a fortune modifying it, crash or otherwise ruin it, sell it cheap. Rinse and repeat.

Those who partied hard handed their money over the bar and spent the rest on taxis. And if they didn't spend it on taxis then it was being booked for drink driving etc instead.

Those who invested and made some money thought they were clever. But, with the inexperience of youth, they thought they were smarter than they really were. That's when the risk taking takes over, and next come the losses. Been there, done that.

In all honesty, I reckon you're better off partying than anything else. That one has a definite time limit which is relatively short whereas you can always buy a nice car in your 30's (without scaring the #### out of the insurers and police since you've probably got some sense by now) and invest sensibly without the probability of losing the lot.

Travel's not quite as urgent though, unless your idea of travel is simply to party every night (in which case Contiki is your friend...). Personally, I could never see the point in going half way around the world only to end up doing something (clubbing, partying) that you can do in any Australian mainland state capital city every Saturday night. With very few exceptions, a club's a club no matter where it's located. If you just want to see the sights then you can do that at any age - until kids come along.


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## Bill M (9 April 2012)

ENP said:


> I've got a slight dilemma.
> 
> I really enjoy saving, getting ahead and investing and seeing my money grow.
> 
> on the other side of the coin and be a cheap penny pincher either.




When I finished my training at your age the first thing I did was a trip around Australia. Then I moved interstate and got a better job with better pay and put my head down and bum up for 6 Months. I just worked all the O/T I could and saved all my money then threw in the job and went travelling/partying for 3 months or so. When the money ran out I did it again and went to different places. After a while I found somewhere I liked living a lot so spent a longer time there working and saving but still doing a trip a year somewhere on my 4 weeks annual holiday..

I do not regret spending any of my money back then, I had the time of my life. Plenty of time later to save for a house or a share portfolio, it's all about balance and what you want, good luck mate.


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## McLovin (9 April 2012)

CanOz said:


> Take  a fly rod!
> 
> CanOz




Is that you in Mongolia?


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## CanOz (9 April 2012)

McLovin said:


> Is that you in Mongolia?




A few years ago, on the Delger Muron, 30 kms from the Russian border. Thats a small Taimen, largest species of trout. River was full of Lenok too.

PM me if you're interested in doing a trip while your there...

Sorry for being slightly off topic....

Save your money, and go see the world!


CanOz


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## Dowdy (9 April 2012)

I spent 4 months in USA in 2010. I went there to do a kids summer camp for 8 weeks and then went travelling the rest of the time. I could of stayed longer but missed home and was sorta over all the travelling. But it was the BEST TIME OF MY LIFE! 

Saving money for it was no problems when you have an online business. Good thing about it being online, I ran it from half way across the world and just asked my mum to post out my orders back home 

My next trip will probably be an adventurous one. Either in NZ or trekking to Everest base camp


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## johenmo (10 April 2012)

CanOz said:


> ...   Save your money, and go see the world!
> 
> 
> CanOz




Do this.  You don't know what life will throw at you later on & you'll wish you had.  Adn travelling with kids cost a lot  more...


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## CanOz (10 April 2012)

johenmo said:


> Do this.  You don't know what life will throw at you later on & you'll wish you had.  Adn travelling with kids cost a lot  more...




Spoken by another one that has slaved away 20 years for one company!

Good to hear from ya mate!

CanOz


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## notting (10 April 2012)

From the age of about 17 to 28 your brain is at it optimum for study and setting up intelligence that can assist you for the rest of your life if you use it positively!

Lock yourself in a room, study your brains off, read the philosophers, biographies of great thinkers and people who have achieved great things.  Listen to great music that was revolutionary at the times and effected the world.
Don't stuff up your brain with drugs and alcohol.  (There's an edge!!)
Think!!  
Question everything!
Learn the language of your own intuition!!
Be true to it, even when it seems to be pointing the wrong way!!
Don't indulge in pr0n, it can destroy your self esteem and create depression and make it a lot harder to get a real girl!!

Observe how you feel before and after the things you do - to get to know you.

Travelings a lost cause, for lost people.

Your mind is the great frontier space is for hollow men!

If that ain't a trip there ain't one worth taking.

It's cheap too!

So you can then invest in a proven system that certain smart people here recommend.

You'll be rich later on but will need to have a longer time horizon for the fruits than what most traders expect before they have lost all their savings a few times over!!

You will only end up where you are.

HERE! 

When you know that and are totally at home, then go!

Spose you can do it all on the bus if you really must.


Love 

Pop.


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## Uncle Festivus (11 April 2012)

Get yourself a wife and become DINK's
Save everything
Live frugally
Take a month (or 2) off every year to travel
Don't drink alcohol - it's actually a poison, not good for your body
Don't let anyone invest your money for you - do your study & do it yourself


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## Klogg (11 April 2012)

notting said:


> Travelings a lost cause, for lost people.




Wow, you sound a lot like a mentor of mine.

He told me most people waste their 'travel' experiences with getting blind drunk, rather than appreciate the culture and atmosphere. I didn't believe him at the time (I was 21 - now 25... yes, still much to learn), but I'm now starting to see what he was saying.

Sounds like great advice to me


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## Smurf1976 (11 April 2012)

Klogg said:


> He told me most people waste their 'travel' experiences with getting blind drunk, rather than appreciate the culture and atmosphere. I didn't believe him at the time (I was 21 - now 25... yes, still much to learn), but I'm now starting to see what he was saying.



If you just want to get blind drunk then you can do that anywhere as long as you can get to a bottle shop first.

If you want to do it in a pub then you'll be allowed to get reasonably drunk in practically every town in Australia.

If you want a full on nightclub then then there's Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Gold Coast, Adelaide or Perth all much closer than overseas. And if you're happy with smaller clubs then add Hobart, Darwin and plenty of regional cities to the list as well.

I really can't see any sense in going overseas and getting blind drunk every night unless you're only going to watch football or something like that. As I said, you can get drunk in every town in Australia and you can go clubbing in every reasonably sized city at far less expense. 

I can't see any point travelling half way around the world simply to do something you can do as often as you like here in Australia. That's unless, of course, your sole reason for going is to party rather than actually see the sights and experience the culture. But again, you can do plenty of the same partying right here at home - there's not much difference in it.


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## howmanyru (11 April 2012)

Well, you are really talking about two different types of personalities here. On the one hand you want to party, travel, get drunk, spend everything. Then you want to save, invest, be thriftfull, think long term. Don't really think there is any way to get a balance as you are describing two different people. Which are you?


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## Glen48 (11 April 2012)

Guess you can invite your mates over and get glassed in your very own house. 
Would suggest a road trip to Mt Isa ,Darwin and some way out back country towns and see a different life style, Longreach Blackall, even up north Townsville and towards Weipa. 
Then head to Dodge city and wait out the storm.


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## Ves (12 April 2012)

notting said:


> Travelings a lost cause, for lost people.
> 
> Your mind is the great frontier space is for hollow men!




This reminds me of one of my favourite quotes.



> People travel to wonder at the height of mountains, at the huge waves of the sea, at the long courses of rivers, at the vast compass of the ocean, at the circular motion of the stars; and they pass by themselves without wondering.




Saint Augustine - from his _Confessions_ book I believe - written 397 AD.


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## ENP (12 April 2012)

What's all this talk about getting drunk and going to parties/nightclubs?

I never said any of that and you are putting words in my mouth. I'm a pretty serious cyclist and am in bed by 9pm most nights. I want to travel to explore different cultures and people of the world. I don't want to spend all this money and time to end up in a pub somewhere in Europe, etc. 

I don't think you have to be one or the other. You can be a mix of both. You can save, invest and still enjoy life by spending wiseley on the things that give you the most satisfaction. Travelling to go to different bike races, Tour de France, etc would be great.


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## Dowdy (12 April 2012)

notting said:


> From the age of about 17 to 28 your brain is at it optimum for study and setting up intelligence that can assist you for the rest of your life if you use it positively!
> 
> Lock yourself in a room, study your brains off, read the philosophers, biographies of great thinkers and people who have achieved great things.  Listen to great music that was revolutionary at the times and effected the world.
> Don't stuff up your brain with drugs and alcohol.  (There's an edge!!)
> ...




That's terrible advice. Please no one listen notting's advice. Don't waste your early years stuck in your room. It's probably good advice from age 13-19 when you're stuck in school but don't waste your 20's doing that 

My brother is like that. Sits in his room all day and reads, reads and reads. Very smart, very boring, lacks social skills. Is 10x smarter then me and has a degree in electrical engineering but can't find a job in his chosen field - despite all his knowledge, it not too good at selling himself in the interviews. Still stuck at his previous job he was doing before he was studying 

He talked about going to New York but never had the conviction and drive to go out and do it. In the end, I went and saw half of USA and had the best time of my life.

While I was at Disneyland Florida, there was a plaque at one of the 'China land' attractions -  *"Hearing something 100 times is not as good as seeing it once"*


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## Gerkin (12 April 2012)

Do it all...
Get a good paying job, work hard, save, buy property and travel overseas.
I do it all at the age of 28.


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## Starcraftmazter (12 April 2012)

Dowdy said:


> That's terrible advice. Please no one listen notting's advice. Don't waste your early years stuck in your room. It's probably good advice from age 13-19 when you're stuck in school but don't waste your 20's doing that
> 
> My brother is like that. Sits in his room all day and reads, reads and reads. Very smart, very boring, lacks social skills. Is 10x smarter then me and has a degree in electrical engineering but can't find a job in his chosen field - despite all his knowledge, it not too good at selling himself in the interviews. Still stuck at his previous job he was doing before he was studying
> 
> ...




I'd have to defend your brother here, everyone is different and you shouldn't generalise. I'm sure that to him you are equally boring.

Also, electrical engineering is not a good field to get a good job in Australia, I had a friend at work with that degree, but the company we worked at was not to do with electronics engineering. So it's probably not entirely your brother's fault.

The point is, people should do what they like, and what they consider fun - rather than some socially preconceived notions thereof.


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## Julia (12 April 2012)

Starcraftmazter said:


> I'd have to defend your brother here, everyone is different and you shouldn't generalise. I'm sure that to him you are equally boring.
> 
> Also, electrical engineering is not a good field to get a good job in Australia, I had a friend at work with that degree, but the company we worked at was not to do with electronics engineering. So it's probably not entirely your brother's fault.
> 
> The point is, people should do what they like, and what they consider fun - rather than some socially preconceived notions thereof.



I can't believe I' m saying this, but I do agree with SCM on this.

Peer groups place immense pressure on individuals to go with the herd.
Imo it takes quite a bit of courage to ignore that pressure and do what feels right for you. 
We only grow by making our own independent decisions and living with and learning from the results.


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## Dowdy (12 April 2012)

Well it is true that you have to do what makes you happy and i'm sure he's happy with what he does. But for the record, I don't follow the crowd, I just prefer the outdoors more.


But the notion of exploring the world through your mind in ridiculous! Grand Canyon for example - You can read all the books on geology and watch all the clips on youtube about the grand canyon but experience it is a completely different thing...and you can't trek the grand canyon from inside your mind - you can probably fly there with certain drugs but that's a different matter :


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## Bill M (12 April 2012)

ENP said:


> I don't think you have to be one or the other. You can be a mix of both. You can save, invest and still enjoy life by spending wiseley on the things that give you the most satisfaction. Travelling to go to different bike races, Tour de France, etc would be great.




Totally agree and there are various ways to get there. Sometimes I would work 2 years straight in order to save 2 Months Rec Leave, then I would take off somewhere. Other things I did was take ordinary non career jobs, save up for 6 Months then toss it in and travel. By age 40 I had been to 39 Countries and now in my 50's I'm still travelling and I managed to pay off houses and build an investment portfolio. Seeing as you don't drink much you could save a lot more. In my case while others were in night clubs on a Friday night paying $10 for a drink I was doing O/T on double money, then when I took off on a trip everyone would say "gee how can you afford to do that". You can do the lot, save a bit, spend a bit and enjoy life.


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## Smurf1976 (12 April 2012)

ENP said:


> What's all this talk about getting drunk and going to parties/nightclubs?
> 
> I never said any of that and you are putting words in my mouth. I'm a pretty serious cyclist and am in bed by 9pm most nights. I want to travel to explore different cultures and people of the world. I don't want to spend all this money and time to end up in a pub somewhere in Europe, etc.



Nobody said you have to do any of that. But there's an entire tour company (Contiki) which exists largely for the purpose of catering to this "party every night and see a few sights during the day" market and it's a _very_ mainstream thing to do.

Going to France for a bike race I can see the point in. Going to USA to see New York and the Grand Canyon I can see the point in. I can even see the point in going all the way to London just to see a musical or theatre performance if that's what you're interested in. 

But travelling half way around the world to get drunk I can't see any real point in since you can do the same thing right here at home (literally at home if you want). But huge numbers of (mostly) young people do it every year to the point of it being almost a rite of passage these days.


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## prawn_86 (15 April 2012)

Smurf1976 said:


> But travelling half way around the world to get drunk I can't see any real point in since you can do the same thing right here at home (literally at home if you want). But huge numbers of (mostly) young people do it every year to the point of it being almost a rite of passage these days.




While i agree with your sentiment, each to their own i say. At least they are experiencing (a little) of different cultures, and who knows, when they mature they might have got a taste for travelling and go back and see more. 

Partying while travelling is a good way to meet new people and expand your friend base as opposed to just staying at home and getting drunk


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## Eager (19 April 2012)

Good thread.

ENP, do not beat yourself up because you might miss out on the sort of overseas holidays that your mates have. Do not be envious of them, just enjoy their photos instead. Besides, the age cut-off for Contiki is 35, I believe.  

To show how much things have changed over the years, my wife and I bought a house and married at the age of 21 (!) and had the first of our 3 children just a couple of years later. It certainly restricted us from flashy possessions and holidays, in fact our first 'big' holiday was a family road trip to Coffs Harbour 13 years later when the youngest was 6! The upside is that here we are, late 40's, near-new dream home, good incomes, investments tucked away, and NOW we are ready to par-tay! If you muck up now, you will probably still have a half-million dollar debt at that stage of your life.:

Having said that, it is important to live a little along the way. Just remember that packing a suitcase and going to a village by the sea for a weekend can result in good times and memories just as important to you later in life than any exotic location overseas.


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## Judd (19 April 2012)

Save enough to buy a Maton EM325C for $1500 (or Cole Clark Fat Lady 2 for $1600) and an AER Compact 60 amp for $1800 (or Roland AC33 for $600) and earn your keep touring the world busking.

Just a thought.


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