# Fundseeder.com - Track your trading account performance



## skc (6 July 2016)

I just came across this pretty useful website called FundSeeder.com whilst listening to the Chat With Trader podcast's interview with Jack Schwager, author of the Market Wizards serise (https://chatwithtraders.com/ep-027-jack-schwager/).

You can upload your account data (basically just Net Liquidation Value) either thru a spreadsheet or have it automated if you use a supported broker (like IB). The site will then show you a range of performance stats, nice equity charts, waterfalls, monthly returns etc etc. And there are many other strategies on there you can look at the performance of different strategies from account on the leaderboard.

If the data upload process is automated, your data is consider verified and will be considered on the leaderboard... apparently you might even attract trading capital!

It's a very useful resource for tracking your own performance as well as seeing other people's performance.

So... go ahead, upload your data and show us your stats


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## Nortorious (6 July 2016)

skc said:


> I just came across this pretty useful website called FundSeeder.com whilst listening to the Chat With Trader podcast's interview with Jack Schwager, author of the Market Wizards serise (https://chatwithtraders.com/ep-027-jack-schwager/).
> 
> You can upload your account data (basically just Net Liquidation Value) either thru a spreadsheet or have it automated if you use a supported broker (like IB). The site will then show you a range of performance stats, nice equity charts, waterfalls, monthly returns etc etc. And there are many other strategies on there you can look at the performance of different strategies from account on the leaderboard.
> 
> ...




Nice one, will have to check it out to see how they measure performance/stats. Sounds interesting...


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## Gringotts Bank (6 July 2016)

Good but if everyone can see your trades, won't they just copy?  Then you lose your edge?


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## skc (6 July 2016)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Good but if everyone can see your trades, won't they just copy?  Then you lose your edge?




With the "unverified data" upload option, the only data you are providing is date and NLV. So Fundseeder.com doesn't see any of your actual trades. 

With the "automated broker upload" option, I don't know what is being uploaded. It could be just the NLV or there could be more data. If there's any concern then you should confirm with your broker or with the site.

Regardless of which option you use, no trade is displayed to the public... just daily account equity and performance stats.


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## Nortorious (6 July 2016)

I checked it out and for me it really is only an equity curve that it would be keeping track of (which I do myself anyway).

Similar approach to what Peter2 has in his thread.

Happy to upload to the site though to track other metrics which I'm not smart enough to write formulas for in excel


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## Wysiwyg (6 July 2016)

Michael Markus mentioned in the narrative. Never heard of him but traded up to mega bucks. One thing these legends have typical in their story is hitting a big winner at some stage and then everything compounds. 80 million from 30k sheeesh.


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## minwa (7 July 2016)

skc said:


> If the data upload process is automated, your data is consider verified and will be considered on the leaderboard... apparently you might even attract trading capital!




The people behind this used to run RAPA cap intro. Same model, I can't see any difference essentially, I was signed up in it. No one ever got funded. It ran for a few years, then shut down. Makes one wonder what they did with all those trading data. 

Until I see many examples of people actually funded making this a legit thing, I would avoid giving your trading data just for some analytics. Their name is fundseeder, primary purpose is to fund people, if they are not doing that at all it raises many red flags. I beleive you have to give IB permission and password to them, they can see your trades real time.

I don't care if Schwaeger is part of it , it's been operating for 2 years and I cannot find one person on the internet who has got funded, just gaining access to accounts. If I was the owner, I could certainly construct a portfolio of top 5 or 10 trader's positions..and should have a smoothed out return portfolio.


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## skc (7 July 2016)

minwa said:


> The people behind this used to run RAPA cap intro. Same model, I can't see any difference essentially, I was signed up in it. No one ever got funded. It ran for a few years, then shut down. Makes one wonder what they did with all those trading data.




Interesting I am not aware of that.



minwa said:


> Until I see many examples of people actually funded making this a legit thing, I would avoid giving your trading data just for some analytics. Their name is fundseeder, primary purpose is to fund people, if they are not doing that at all it raises many red flags. I beleive you have to give IB permission and password to them, they can see your trades real time.




I have only uploaded the unverified version which is nothing more than dates and closing equity that I fill in myself on a spreadsheet. So I didn't look in detail what's involved with broker linked auto upload. 

But really?! Password? I don't think that is right and I'd be surprised if anyone is silly enough to trust them with their account password!

Google is dodgy enough to collect Wifi data when doing google map, so I suppose these guys can be dodgy enough to see, lodge and copy your trades.



minwa said:


> I don't care if Schwaeger is part of it , it's been operating for 2 years and I cannot find one person on the internet who has got funded, just gaining access to accounts. If I was the owner, I could certainly construct a portfolio of top 5 or 10 trader's positions..and should have a smoothed out return portfolio.




Probably more difficult than it looks to copy the trades (due to lag and liquidity etc) but the possibility is there.

Thanks for the alert ... any one looking to do the auto link up should do more thorough investigations.


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## Gringotts Bank (7 July 2016)

Wherever there's big money, there will be very clever people attempting to break the law.

If I was a hacker intent on financial gain, my first task would be to identify individuals with steep/smooth equity curves.  Hacking into the world's biggest broker, IB, would give me a license to print money.  Maybe I can reverse engineer, maybe I can piggyback, maybe I can even front run several dozen very successful trader's accounts at once.  

With account details, maybe I can intercept your trades if I'm closer to the exchange than you are.  The possibilities are endless, and I'd be stunned if the HFT pioneers haven't started on some very advanced technologies to profit illegally.

Recently I posted something on the ability of hackers to remotely disable cars and explode power stations, so ...


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## CanOz (7 July 2016)

Ridiculous...why not just steal and sell identities....easy money compared to that...


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## VSntchr (7 July 2016)

skc said:


> So... go ahead, upload your data and show us your stats



Done. I quite like the presentation of the stuff they provide..some interesting stuff.

The stats are somewhat off, as the GLV is for my main broker and ignores some trades that are done in other accounts. It also has a much lower balance than my total fund base - so the return looks alot more impressive! Also noticed that the cumulative return is different to the annualised return despite only adding 12 months of data 1/7/2015 - 30/6/2016. I think this is because they are using calendar years rather than financial years, but still seems odd.


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## minwa (7 July 2016)

skc said:


> But really?! Password? I don't think that is right and I'd be surprised if anyone is silly enough to trust them with their account password!
> 
> Probably more difficult than it looks to copy the trades (due to lag and liquidity etc) but the possibility is there.




Pretty sure it was rapa or collective2 that asked for password. Its the only true way for verification. I mean who is going to fund some trader who's data can be edited in excel or similar format. Also self uploaders can choose periods they are profitable.

I dont think copying trades is hard in liquid markets that are not ultra scalping. I've seen collective2 in action and it copies 99% exact fills in liquid markets, for small retail account sizes at least.


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## skc (7 July 2016)

VSntchr said:


> Done. I quite like the presentation of the stuff they provide..some interesting stuff.
> 
> The stats are somewhat off, as the GLV is for my main broker and ignores some trades that are done in other accounts. *It also has a much lower balance than my total fund base - so the return looks alot more impressive! *




Use the Constant NAS method... which is the notional account size based on how much you are risking, as opposed to how much $$ is in the account.



minwa said:


> Pretty sure it was rapa or collective2 that asked for password. Its the only true way for verification. I mean who is going to fund some trader who's data can be edited in excel or similar format. Also self uploaders can choose periods they are profitable.




OK... I tried to link an IB account and this is what they want... https://www.interactivebrokers.com/...e/administratormarketplace_searchservices.htm

They didn't ask for password... but they are asking for linkage as administrator. I can't work out from IB what level of data can the linked administrator access, although I wouldn't be surprised if it is quite a lot.

It does seem to be too much for just plotting some equity curves.


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## skc (7 July 2016)

I just spent 10 minutes reading up on FundSeeder and I can't be 100% certain whether they are legit or shady. 

I do think that, if you link your account to them, you will provide them with enough information IF they want to be shady.

So make up your own mind.


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## minwa (12 September 2016)

Curiosity won over caution..I have no interest in the analytics but was interested to see other's performance. Used a spare account that I opened to trade spot FX before IB shut it down for us. All they have is my personal info and access to a account without much trading done in it.  




Cumulative trader's graph - green line is all accounts above $50k / Aqua line is top 10 percentile (based on their ranking) of accounts

*What didn't surprise me: *
-Discretionary outperforming systematic by a large margin
-Technical outperforming fundamental

*What surprised me:*
-Forex traders in the negative
-Equities mostly following the S&P 500. Out performance on the index is only very small

Keep in mind this is "aspiring" money managers, not actual money managers, but I wouldn't think there would be too much difference


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