# Queensland Election 2009



## Garpal Gumnut (22 February 2009)

My contacts in George St. and the highest eschelons of the ALP tell me that the election is on.

Brisconnect seems to have been the trigger.

The monumental blundering carcass of a road would have guaranteed Anna Bligh's despatch to the slushy end of the trench.

Watch this space for more.

I may vote ALP. I do like right wing governments and the Queensland Libs are too left for my liking and the Nationals don't exist anymore in that dog's dinner the LNP.

gg


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## shaunQ (22 February 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I may vote ALP. I do like right wing governments and the Queensland Libs are too left for my liking and the Nationals don't exist anymore in that dog's dinner the LNP.




As an ex-nswelsh (yes I'm one of those imports) - it smells the same as with Iemma, everybody hates Labor but the bloody Libs/Nats can't put forward a viable alternative. Hopefully lots of respected independents will run as well.

I think this will also be the first time a woman has gone to the polls for premier.


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## Garpal Gumnut (22 February 2009)

shaunQ said:


> As an ex-nswelsh (yes I'm one of those imports) - it smells the same as with Iemma, everybody hates Labor but the bloody Libs/Nats can't put forward a viable alternative. Hopefully lots of respected independents will run as well.
> 
> I think this will also be the first time a woman has gone to the polls for premier.




You've got it in one mate.

I'll probably vote ALP, they are so right wing , best to stay with safety.

gg


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## Julia (22 February 2009)

shaunQ said:


> As an ex-nswelsh (yes I'm one of those imports) - it smells the same as with Iemma, everybody hates Labor but the bloody Libs/Nats can't put forward a viable alternative. Hopefully lots of respected independents will run as well.



I hope so too.  I would love to vote Labor out, particularly in respect to the diabolical disaster that is the Health system, but the Springborg & Co. option could be even worse.




> I think this will also be the first time a woman has gone to the polls for premier.



What about Joan Kirner in Victoria and Carmen Lawrence in WA?  Did they both inherit the Premier's position and then not stand for re-election?


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## shaunQ (22 February 2009)

Julia said:


> What about Joan Kirner in Victoria and Carmen Lawrence in WA?  Did they both inherit the Premier's position and then not stand for re-election?




I didn't know for sure, but did read somewhere they only took over control not elected... But have now done some research, they seem to have some bad "luck", as cynical as it may be, you wonder whether the boys club sits around and thinks - right all hell is about to break loose - quick, give it to a woman.



> Later in 1988 Kirner was elected Deputy Premier. When Cain resigned after a collapse in his political support in August 1990, Kirner was elected Labor leader and thus became Victoria's first female Premier.
> By this time the Labor government was in deep crisis, with the some of the state's financial institutions on the brink of insolvency, the budget deficit unsustainably high and growing and the Labor Party deeply divided on how to respond to the situation. The party hoped that the elevation of a popular woman as its new leader would improve its position, but Kirner never succeeded in gaining control of the crisis into which the state had plunged.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Kirner



> In February 1990, Dowding was forced by his colleagues to resign. Lawrence, a prominent opponent within the Labor Party of Brian Burke's Right faction, of which Dowding was a member, replaced him as Premier on 12 February 1990.....
> In the election held on 6 February 1993, the Lawrence government was defeated by the Liberal-National coalition and Richard Court, who had replaced Barry MacKinnon as opposition leader just a year earlier, became Premier




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmen_Lawrence


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## Calliope (22 February 2009)

I mourn for Queensland. With the opposition we have up here Bligh is a lay down misere. In fact, if she had any guts, she could promise to build a dam and get in without help from the Greens.


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## Garpal Gumnut (22 February 2009)

Calliope said:


> I mourn for Queensland. With the opposition we have up here Bligh is a lay down misere. In fact, if she had any guts, she could promise to build a dam and get in without help from the Greens.




I don't believe there are any Greens in Queensland, nor are there Martians or believers in a flat Earth.

This glorious state, this garden of eden, is too busy providing good housing, jobs, education and a future for the masses of migrants shivering at our southern borders.

We have no time for greens.

My god Calliope, are you stark raving mad, a Green in George St.

Inconceivable.

gg


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## Smurf1976 (22 February 2009)

Calliope said:


> In fact, if she had any guts, she could promise to build a dam and get in without help from the Greens.



You can go to an election with building a dam as your key policy and win a majority of seats at that election, thus becoming the government. You can then make every possible effort to build the dam, including starting actual construction, but still be stopped by the greens. It's been done before.

As an outsider, my perception of Qld is that they had a massive mining boom but somehow failed to gain much from it. That is, a huge boom but now it's over they're still stuck with all sorts of infrastructure and financial problems. Maybe not, I don't live there, but that's the impression I have.


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## numbercruncher (22 February 2009)

QLD will have no money to fix anything, just paying the wages is going to be a struggle for the state gov ......


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## Garpal Gumnut (22 February 2009)

Smurf1976 said:


> You can go to an election with building a dam as your key policy and win a majority of seats at that election, thus becoming the government. You can then make every possible effort to build the dam, including starting actual construction, but still be stopped by the greens. It's been done before.
> 
> As an outsider, my perception of Qld is that they had a massive mining boom but somehow failed to gain much from it. That is, a huge boom but now it's over they're still stuck with all sorts of infrastructure and financial problems. Maybe not, I don't live there, but that's the impression I have.






numbercruncher said:


> QLD will have no money to fix anything, just paying the wages is going to be a struggle for the state gov ......




URANIUM

gg


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## beerwm (22 February 2009)

Ok, so labor has failed, health, economy, scandal after scandal, the list goes on.

But you will vote them in again???

No wonder QLD is in the mess they are in with that sort of attitude.

The LNP is not a viable alternative? where do people get this from? Have you seen a government run by the LNP in QLD, do you object to any major policies?
Sure they bicker when not in government...  but has any party not in government been any different?

How anyone can tick the Labor box on election day totally bewilders me, sure you dont have to vote for the LNP but if you keep re-electing failure... what do you expect to get.

sigh.


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## Stormin_Norman (22 February 2009)

beerwm said:


> Have you seen a government run by the LNP in QLD, do you object to any major policies?




bring back joh ey?


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## Julia (22 February 2009)

beerwm said:


> Ok, so labor has failed, health, economy, scandal after scandal, the list goes on.
> 
> But you will vote them in again???
> 
> ...



Well, if the LNP made clear any of its policies then we would have a chance to consider them.  So far I'm unaware of a single policy put out by this Opposition.  Some while ago I emailed them to ask for their policy on fluoride.
I'm still waiting for a reply.

Remember, Springborg has twice failed already.

With all their criticisms of Labor, they have not come up with any alternative.


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## Julia (22 February 2009)

Smurf1976 said:


> As an outsider, my perception of Qld is that they had a massive mining boom but somehow failed to gain much from it. That is, a huge boom but now it's over they're still stuck with all sorts of infrastructure and financial problems. Maybe not, I don't live there, but that's the impression I have.



I'd say your impression is 100% accurate, Smurf.
No one knows where all the money has gone from the mining boom.
They have spent billions on a recycled water pipeline which they then decided not to use.   They're still attempting to cover up all the failures in the health system.
I just can't wait to hear about all the new taxes when they are re-elected.


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## beerwm (22 February 2009)

My brother actually emailed on the flouride topic;

he got the reply,
basically stating [from memory] - we would have a referundum* and continue supply of flouride tablets of those who require/want them.

failing to get elected - doesnt mean he would of failed as a politician.

Unless ofcourse you think Al Gore would of done a worse job than George Bush.

But if you think Labor is the go... then dont let me talk you out of it.


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## Trevor_S (23 February 2009)

Calliope said:


> I mourn for Queensland. With the opposition we have up here Bligh is a lay down misere.



  Which is unfortunate, as they have not been tried.  Are you assuming the complete **** up that has been labor will be repeated even though they haven't been given a go ? and do you think that reelecting the Government that completely cocked it up, they will do a  better job next time ?

In all good conscious, I haven't voted labor or liberal since I formed the opinion that neither is there for my or the states best interest, so I might as well give my vote to someone who will try.  Like what the hell ...  locally, the labor party has decided to appoint a soccer mum as the candidate for Townsville, now that Mike Reynolds has decided to retire, just what we need to help run a state ! I don't see anyone with an ounce of business acumen amongst them and people wander why the state is a mess ? A few trade union officials and party hacks (yes, that be you Craig Wallace, Lindy Nelson-Carr etc etc !)   Independent it is again.

All very well and good to blame the Government, but the fault squarely lies with the people who elected them, though I talk to a lot of people and they are happy with labor, low expectations being met I guess.


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## spottygoose (23 February 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> You've got it in one mate.
> 
> I'll probably vote ALP, they are so right wing , best to stay with safety.
> 
> gg




Stay with safety? Surely you mean with dishonesty and mismanagement. My vote will not go with the ALP - their track record is a disgrace. I agree the alternative is not cohesive but I would rather give them a chance than reward a shocking performance. Now is the time to have good economic management as a focus in our resource rich state and I don't believe the ALP are capable.


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## numbercruncher (23 February 2009)

Queensland should get more Federal funding and money from all other state Governments to compensate for their citizens that move here to the sunny climes to retire and stretch our resources (especially hospitals) to breaking point .....

When Beatie was in he once said they didnt want anymore people moving here unless they had a skill that the state needed ....

I propose the cost of Interstate and NZ retirees/sickness beneficeries etc is lumped back onto their home states - 

Many other things need to be considered, all rocks turned over,every avenue explored.

With a rapidly aging population Queenslands predicament is only going to get worse, the bill is going to be too great for this next generation of tax payers to bare ...

Queensland has just lost its AAA credit rating with much worse to come,,,, brace yerselfs ..


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## shaunQ (23 February 2009)

numbercruncher said:


> Queensland should get more Federal funding and money from all other state Governments to compensate for their citizens that move here to the sunny climes to retire and stretch our resources (especially hospitals) to breaking point .....




Qld does. They get a disproportion amount of the GST revenue, which NSW hates them for. I reckon you'll find the migration will start to reverse now, which is going to hit Qld even harder.


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## Julia (23 February 2009)

beerwm said:


> My brother actually emailed on the flouride topic;
> 
> he got the reply,
> basically stating [from memory] - we would have a referundum* and continue supply of flouride tablets of those who require/want them.
> ...



I thought I'd made it pretty clear that I think Labor is anything but "the go"!

Re fluoride:  do you remember when your brother received that info?  I find it a bit hard to believe that they would hold a referendum, especially considering the cost of so doing, when the fluoride has already gone into much of the water supply.

Fair point about Springborg's failure to be elected not necessarily reflecting his failure in potential office.

At this stage, unless some promising Independent appears, I'll vote for the LNP.

Numbercruncher:  re costs of imported people being sent back to their country/state of origin, this already happens for anyone on any sort of welfare from NZ (and I think some other Commonwealth countries) via the Reciprocal Agreement.


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## Wysiwyg (23 February 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> My contacts in George St. and the highest eschelons of the ALP tell me that the election is on.
> 
> Brisconnect seems to have been the trigger.
> 
> ...




21st. March.


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## noirua (23 February 2009)

What matters now is getting exports out of QLD from the, some recently expanded, ports.  The slowdown has caused cancellation and delayed shipments since November last. 

The present Government has worked hard and largely succeeded in bring new mines on stream at a fast pace, far faster than NSW, improving rail facilities and expanding ports.


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## Aussiejeff (23 February 2009)

Julia said:


> I'd say your impression is 100% accurate, Smurf.
> No one knows where all the money has gone from the mining boom.
> They have spent billions on a recycled water pipeline which they then decided not to use.   They're still attempting to cover up all the failures in the health system.
> I just can't wait to hear about all the new taxes when they are re-elected.




Well, Standard & Poor's just dropped QLD's credit rating to AA from AAA. That will certainly increase the cost of interest payments on the state's debt - estimated $AUS200Mill for FY2009 (so far). http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/02/21/2497607.htm?section=justin

So, I suspect Bligh went early with this bad news in mind and potentially much worse economic news around the corner, just in case S & P's might decide to further downgrade the state again after the REAL cost of the recent massive flooding finally hits the treasury books. Better to go now, get re-elected because there is currently no plausible alternative then deal with another rating downgrade as par for the course.

Not so good if she waited and another "shock" downgrade by S & P's hits the fan before she calls the vote, eh?


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## Calliope (23 February 2009)

The Duke of Wellington once said, in reference to the quality of his general officers;







> I don't know what effect these men will have upon the enemy, but, by God they frighten me




 I feel the same way when I look at our Opposition leaders. Now that Anna Bligh has officially declared war on Queensland, it will be interesting to see what they can do in our defence.


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## sails (23 February 2009)

numbercruncher said:


> ...Queensland has just lost its AAA credit rating with much worse to come,,,, brace yerselfs ..




Here's a link to the article in the Sunday Mail: http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,27574,25087839-3102,00.html - and an excerpt: 



> Premier Anna Bligh said Queensland's dramatic turnaround from an $809 million surplus predicted in the June Budget for 2008-09 to a $1.57 billion deficit was of great concern.




That's a worry...

I know one way they could save some tax payer funds - stop giving higher priority to tenant trashers for public housing and then paying millions in repairs (TT report stated $112 million went on Qld housing repairs -  http://au.video.yahoo.com/watch/4431989/11880875)


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## windy (23 February 2009)

Mr Springborg is my local member, and has been an excellent member of parliament.Please remember, 9 Labor MP's are retiring at this election, and  are you happy with Labor and their policies? I have been unhappy with their policies such as amalgamation, fluoride, hospital services and lack of dental services in my area. 10 years is long enough for this mob. I hope the people of Queensland will give LNP a fair go and your vote.


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## grace (23 February 2009)

noirua said:


> The present Government has worked hard and largely succeeded in bring new mines on stream at a fast pace, far faster than NSW, improving rail facilities and expanding ports.




Can you post the link for this.  I am unaware of these improved rail and port facilities.  The only enhancements I know of are of a miniscule nature.

We were advised in September last year that Anna would be calling the election now.  No surprises at all.  The date had been planned for a long time.  Why do they lie through their teeth up to the very last second?


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## Julia (23 February 2009)

windy said:


> Mr Springborg is my local member, and has been an excellent member of parliament.Please remember, 9 Labor MP's are retiring at this election, and  are you happy with Labor and their policies? I have been unhappy with their policies such as amalgamation, fluoride, hospital services and lack of dental services in my area. 10 years is long enough for this mob. I hope the people of Queensland will give LNP a fair go and your vote.



Windy, I think a lot of Queenslanders are more than fed up with Labor.
It's really now up to Springborg & Co.  If they run a good campaign and can actually allow us to believe that they provide a credible alternative, then it shouldn't be too difficult for the required number of seats to swing to the LNP.

I hesitate to say this about any politician, but Lawrence Springborg does seem to be a more genuine sort of person than Ms Bligh.  But such an observation may be naive in the extreme, and in the coming weeks I may wish I'd cut my tongue out before making any such comment.

Bligh hasn't earned any brownie points by going to election so early.
Few will be unaware that she's doing it in order to get the election over before the even worse news becomes known on the economy.

In a panglossian world all politicians would only be inspired by the good of the country/state and be devoid of self interest.


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## grace (23 February 2009)

Julia said:


> I hesitate to say this about any politician, but Lawrence Springborg does seem to be a more genuine sort of person than Ms Bligh.  But such an observation may be naive in the extreme, and in the coming weeks I may wish I'd cut my tongue out before making any such comment.




He is a very genuine, down to earth person.  He has lived and breathed politics from, it seems, the time he could speak.  The youngest person to ever become an MP at the age of 21.  His wedding over with, his honeymoon the next day was spent campaigning for the election.  From the early days in the young nats, he was very motivated.  He has fantastic ideas for our State.  Unfortunately, the media doesn't give him the chance to talk about them.


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## Wysiwyg (24 February 2009)

Lawrence lacks mongrel.
He comes across as the intellectual, academic, religious, faithful, loving, harmonious, christen the babies type dude.
He would be equally at home fully robed within the Catholic clergy, passing around bread and water on Sundays to the faithful.

May the best woman (or man) win.


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## beerwm (24 February 2009)

Centrebet odds;

Yesterday;
Labor; 1.50
LNP; 2.50

Today;
Labor 1.38
LNP; 2.90


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## Julia (24 February 2009)

In a radio interview this morning Mr Springborg made the point that by 21st March it's quite likely many FNQ voters will still be stranded and unable to vote.
He says a significant number of LNP supporters are in this area.
Could Ms Bligh get away with this if in fact these people aren't able to vote?


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## Calliope (24 February 2009)

Wysiwyg said:


> Lawrence lacks mongrel.
> He comes across as the intellectual, academic, religious, faithful, loving, harmonious, christen the babies type dude.
> He would be equally at home fully robed within the Catholic clergy, passing around bread and water on Sundays to the faithful.
> D




Springborg...intellectual?... academic? surely you jest To Brisbanites  he comes across as a dumb hill-billy (but well-meaning). It is in Brisbane where Qld elections are won and lost.  

In the meantime during the next month we have to put up with endless images of Bligh's grinning botoxicity and Springborg's lugubrious vacuity.

And to what purpose? :dunno:


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## jonnycage (24 February 2009)

lets hope that millions of dollars are spent on usless adds bagging each other out, clouding our tv's, papers, and radios with crapola. oh what a feeling !
jonny


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## Julia (24 February 2009)

Calliope said:


> Springborg...intellectual?... academic? surely you jest To Brisbanites  he comes across as a dumb hill-billy (but well-meaning).



I have to agree.   He may be quite a nice bloke, and certainly he's persistent, given that this is I think his third attempt, but intellectual and/or academic?
I don't think so.


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## GumbyLearner (24 February 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I don't believe there are any Greens in Queensland, nor are there Martians or believers in a flat Earth.
> 
> This glorious state, this garden of eden, is too busy providing good housing, jobs, education and a future for the masses of migrants shivering at our southern borders.
> 
> ...




GG

Don't mean to correct you mate! But I actually went to school with one of the candidates! Ronan Lee member for Indooroopilly, newly aligned to the Greens.

Fantastic approachable fella! Actually one of the best people I have ever met in politics. He was as honest as they come when I was a student and expect him to be the same for this election and I think he will safely hold his seat!

Good luck Ronan, thanks for being honest!


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## golfmos123 (25 February 2009)

I think Springborg is destined to lose this election.  I like the guy, he seems honest as the day is long (a stretch for most politicians) but he just doesn't strike me as a leader.  I'll bet he would make a fantastic 2IC, but not sure about leading.

For the record, Labor deserves to get slaughtered and I dearly wish they would.  But I think that there are enough idiots around to vote for our botoxed premier one more time.  They have done nothing to deserve my vote in almost 10 years.  It is a shame that perhaps the opposition hasn't done enough to get it either.


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## knocker (25 February 2009)

Bligh by name bligh by nature. What has this dimiwt done for qld? SFA. Good luck knuckle draggers who vote for her, your destiny awaits you lol


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## Wysiwyg (25 February 2009)

knocker said:


> Bligh by name bligh by nature. What has this dimiwt done for qld? SFA. Good luck knuckle draggers who vote for her, your destiny awaits you lol




What are your expectations knacker?What specific areas need addressing?


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## nulla nulla (25 February 2009)

Vote "Pauline for Premier".


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## Calliope (26 February 2009)

Ms Bligh is going to axe that Brisbane icon, The Royal Brisbane Children's Hospital, on the northside and build another children's hospital in her electorate on the southside.

Critics calculate that the extra 23 overnight beds promised would cost *$47.8 million each.* This includes cost of building.

Ms Bligh has spent *$100,000* of taxpayers money writing to 150,000 northside households attempting to explain her decision.


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## Julia (26 February 2009)

Hasn't Mr Springborg said he would reverse this decision?

The local LNP candidate has now declared himself for my area.  He's a total idjit.  Was Mayor for a few years and was a complete puppet.
Would find it pretty hard to vote for him on this basis.


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## moXJO (26 February 2009)

N.S.W suffered the same choice at the last elections. The libs just did not run a good campaign, and we were stuck with labor once again. Labor members now just blatantly rip off the public, and the corruption runs so very deep and openly that it’s sickening. If they get in again I'm moving state.


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## Calliope (27 February 2009)

Springborg's attempts at being funny are pathetic. My advice to him is;

Stop playing silly borgers and stick to your script,,,dull as it is.

Leave the comedy acts to Bligh


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## Garpal Gumnut (10 March 2009)

I may have to reconsider my intention to vote ALP. 
The ALP machine seems to be up to dirtier tricks than I'm willing to countenece.

This from Andrew Bolt's blog, a person not known to have unreasonable bias against the ALP.
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/

*If Anna Bligh’s cronies do this kind of monstering over mere campaign posters, what do they do when the stakes are big?


   Manly BP service station owner Jim Theodorou… was yesterday “sticking it” to the ALP by sticking with the Liberal National Party signs erected at his service station premises.

    A self-proclaimed long-time Labor voter and fishing charter operator, Mr Theodorou had agreed to the LNP signs after he decided to switch political allegiance in protest at the State Government’s creation of Moreton Bay green zones.

    But after the signs went up, he received an anonymous phone call from a woman who claimed to be a customer. Mr Theodorou said the woman asked why no ALP signs were present and then threatened to ask ALP supporters to boycott the service station if the party’s signs weren’t allowed.

    Mr Theodorou said he checked the phone number and discovered the caller was Deputy Premier and local member Paul Lucas’s campaign manager Linda Harnett.

That’s another .5 per cent of the vote gone, just there*

In Mundingburra that leaves the Greens, the LNP  Family First or an Independent.

Unforunately there is no Marijuana Party candidate..

As I don't want to leave the joint the choice seems difficult.

	BROWN, Jenny	          The Greens	          ..........godbothering Gaia Warmeners
 	NELSON-CARR, Lindy	Australian Labor Party	...... Machine Politics, a good member 
 	NICKSON, Amanda	         Family First Party	 ......... godbotherers
 	PAULER, Francis		                                 .........  Independent 
 	DWYER, Colin	             LNP                        ......... Don't know him   

This is stressful.
I'll have a stubbie and think about it.

gg


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## beerwm (10 March 2009)

heh,

I wonder who put her up to it, or maybe just taking some initiative.

Garpal, any gossip from your political contacts, state or federal?


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## knocker (10 March 2009)

This sort of behaviour is one reason I have left Australia. The Lobor government there is screwing everything up. And lie even more than the usual political bafoons in power.


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## Smurf1976 (10 March 2009)

shaunQ said:


> Qld does. They get a disproportion amount of the GST revenue, which NSW hates them for.



The notion of handing more to the smaller sates goes back to Federation and is intended to offset the higher cost (per head of population) of providing services in these states.

Only problem I can see is that I don't really see how Qld is a "small" state in any way. A poorly managed one yes, but with all those mines, people and so on I don't think anyone can really claim a lack of opportunity. Rather, it's a lack of taking advantage of that opportunity that is the problem.

I can see a case for financial help for NT, Tas, SA and WA with their small populations and, in WA, very large geographic area. Both of these things add to the cost of providing basic services. But Qld doesn't really fit the bill there, at least not while they're mismanaging the massive wealth they have let slip through their fingers.

Nothing against anyone in Qld, please don't take it personally. But it must take an awful lot of bungling for a mining state to end up broke immediately following such a massive boom. Even SA and Tas don't seem to be doing quite that badly, and they never had a boom to start with (unless you count crippling droughts as some sort of "boom").


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## beerwm (10 March 2009)

Its all about

"protecting jobs, its in our DNA. Because thats what Labor does"
-Anna Bligh

brings a tear to the eye.


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## Julia (10 March 2009)

Smurf1976 said:


> The notion of handing more to the smaller sates goes back to Federation and is intended to offset the higher cost (per head of population) of providing services in these states.
> 
> Only problem I can see is that I don't really see how Qld is a "small" state in any way. A poorly managed one yes, but with all those mines, people and so on I don't think anyone can really claim a lack of opportunity. Rather, it's a lack of taking advantage of that opportunity that is the problem.
> 
> ...




Smurf, you're quite right.  We in Qld are also wondering where all the massive wealth from mining has gone, especially when the govt increased royalties significantly about a year ago.

Re Qld receiving more of the GST I think that's supposed to be because there is such a constant influx of people from the other States, currently apparently about 1800 per week.

Certainly Labor have grossly mismanaged pretty much everything.  But when I listen to Mr Springborg who says he is going to fund his so far quite extravagant promises by "an efficiency dividend" (no detail offered so far) I doubt the LNP will be much better.

gg, Lindy Nelson Carr seems to have been pretty OK as a local member, doesn't she?

The one person I'd really like to see thrown out is Health Minister Stephen Robertson.   He has never acknowledged fault for anything and constantly whines excuses about everything being someone else's fault.  Can't stand him.

I'm not at all surprised about the campaign poster issue at the service station.  This sort of stunt will be happening by both sides all over the State.


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## Conza88 (11 March 2009)

I'll be writing anti-state, anti welfare, anti-warfare quotes on the ballot.

Both main parties are a joke.


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## Garpal Gumnut (19 March 2009)

Julia said:


> Smurf, you're quite right.  We in Qld are also wondering where all the massive wealth from mining has gone, especially when the govt increased royalties significantly about a year ago.
> 
> Re Qld receiving more of the GST I think that's supposed to be because there is such a constant influx of people from the other States, currently apparently about 1800 per week.
> 
> ...




Yes Julia,

Lindy Nelson Carr is a good member. Townsville is a Labor town although we have a rainbow of hicks running the council after the recent city Amalgamation.

I'm actually considering not voting for Lindy now. I'm a swinging voter. I had thought Labor were worth supporting but am impressed by the LNP's policies.

Economy is crap.
Health/hospitals are crap
Infrastructure is lacking here in the north.
Too many dysfunctional ministers who have been sacked e.g Purcell

So maybe for me I have to say Labor are responsible for all this and I need to vote LNP.

gg


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## Julia (19 March 2009)

Less than two days to go and for the first time in my life I'm still undecided.
Simply have no confidence in either Party.

Springborg has still to clarify where he is going to achieve his "3% dividend" from the existing budget with which he declares he is going to fund all his promises!
Too waffly and vague for me to believe this is anything more than a wish.

And he has said he would keep the two top public servants in Qld Health.
Imo this is where most of the bad culture comes from.  Qld Health needs a whole fresh start with the inclusion of some senior doctors at the top.

I do like his idea of community boards for regional hospitals but am not sure how this would work in practice.

Just have a really strong sense that the LNP have very little idea about actually managing Queensland.  Until a few short months ago they were absorbed in their infighting between National and the Libs.

Against Labor is Anna Bligh's decision to go to the polls early in order to avoid the worsening economic situation.  We can see through this, Anna!
And the decision to add fluoride to the water supply without consultation or referendum.  That has really, really annoyed me.

Then all the money spent on infrastructure for using recycled water, then hey, we're not going to do that any more.

But most of all, during the past several years of astonishing boom times, no surplus has been achieved to cover the current downturn.  Instead, we're facing a growing deficit.

Then with the recent oil spill, the Environment Minister, Andrew MacNamara, was seen sitting in a cafe drinking champagne at the very time we were being advised of the disastrous extent of the oil spill.

Any other Queenslanders made up their minds who you're voting for and why?


----------



## windy (19 March 2009)

Labor has absolutely failed. Anyone who votes Labor, and they get re-elected, shows that they endorse their pathetic failings of the last term. What would anyone gain by re-electing them? They have 9 ministers retiring, and they have the incompetent Fraser and Robertson. They force amalgamation, flouride, recycled sewerage drinking water upon us to name a few.  A new Labor would have untested ministers just like the opposition. The opposition can't be any worse, I'd rather give them a chance then reward a shocking performance!!!


----------



## beerwm (20 March 2009)

windy is right,

How can you reward failure? I dont know how you can consistently screw up, but Labor has discovered the formula.

How is Springborg a risk anyway.. has Labor left anything to cockup

It struggles me to comprehend how there is even a decision to be made, if something doesnt work- move on- if springborg doesnt work- move on, and so forth.

wont suprise me if bligh gets in.... i mean QLD is home of the Kruddster


----------



## numbercruncher (20 March 2009)

I dont trust the competence of either parties, bit of a worry.


Normally i vote on the bigger picture but this time im going to be selfish and vote LNP solely because theyve promised to build a road that will allow my business to expand.


Both teams are making promises that they cant afford to keep. Hate being forced to vote for people you  know are talking crap.


----------



## Trevor_S (20 March 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> So maybe for me I have to say Labor are responsible for all this




I don't agree, the Voters are responsible.  I remember lamenting last election how totally incompetent the previous labor Government was under Beattie and that things would only get worse if they were returned, sure 'enuff, that's what happened.  I am no great seer but if I can see it, any one can see that rewarding incompetence is a fast slope to oblivion.  Same thing again, if labor get in it will get worse because all you are doing is reinforcing to them that their continual incompetence can be rewarded with re-election, if the LNP get in, it will still be just as bad but might not deteriorate..

I have no beef with voters who are happy with the mess we are in, my only beef is with those voters that new labour where doing a terrible job but voted for them anyway.



Garpal Gumnut said:


> and I need to vote LNP.




Can't see why, I could only ever Vote for an Independent.  Fundamental to the problems of our democracy is the party political system, nothing can be changed until that is removed, the only way to do that is to have a collection of Independents, where they represent their electorate, not the apparatchik of the party machine.

As to Lindy.  I have had direct dealings with her in the past when she was the Minister for Parks and Wildlife, pleasant enough woman but being a Union hack might have good standing in the labour party but doesn't bode well for running the business of Government.


----------



## windy (20 March 2009)

The CM editorial today says it all. Please read it.
BTW anyone who thinks Mr Springborg is a woos shouldn't jump to conclusions. He is my local member, and has been a damn fine representative of my electorate. I have also met him years ago when he came to my children's school, and I really liked him. I think he would make a good premier.
Don't under-estimate country politicians!


----------



## Mickel (20 March 2009)

Julia said:


> Certainly Labor have grossly mismanaged pretty much everything.  But when I listen to Mr Springborg who says he is going to fund his so far quite extravagant promises by "an efficiency dividend" (no detail offered so far) I doubt the LNP will be much better.




Julia, perhaps Mr Springborg knows where some of those ongoing mismanagement dollars have been spent and has plans to eliminate them.It shouldn't be too hard once you control the Treasury pursestrings.


----------



## Julia (20 March 2009)

Trevor_S said:


> I could only ever Vote for an Independent.



Trevor, that may well be fine if your area has an Independent worth voting for.
There is no such person here.   And if your idea were to be taken to the extreme - i.e. where parliament consisted of no majority party but a conglomerate of independents - I can't begin to imagine the mess and impossibility of decision making.
Can't see it ever happening anyway, but I don't think you can be quite so categorical in saying everyone should vote for Independents.


----------



## Julia (20 March 2009)

Mickel said:


> Julia, perhaps Mr Springborg knows where some of those ongoing mismanagement dollars have been spent and has plans to eliminate them.It shouldn't be too hard once you control the Treasury pursestrings.



You may well be right, Mickel.  However, I'd be more reassured if he were to spell out at least some of these mismanaged funds so we know he's not just dreaming, wishing or hoping.


----------



## Knobby22 (20 March 2009)

Julia said:


> You may well be right, Mickel.  However, I'd be more reassured if he were to spell out at least some of these mismanaged funds so we know he's not just dreaming, wishing or hoping.




Is he the Dusty Springfield of politics?

Wishing and hoping and 
thinking and praying, 
planning and dreaming

(each night of his charms
that won't get you into his arms,)


----------



## alston36 (20 March 2009)

Well, one day to go...it's neck and neck and all getting quite exciting for us northern hillbillies. Voting LNP myself, Springborg is an intelligent, honest guy and if he came across like Obama he'd win in a landslide. As for voting Independent, the thought of some out-of-step, single minded, universally unpopular member/s (amongst his peers)  holding the balance of power worries me a lot, the two party system isn't perfect but to go to a lot of trouble and expense to elect 89 members and then enable a minority to call the tune seems ridiculous.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (20 March 2009)

Trevor_S said:


> I don't agree, the Voters are responsible.  I remember lamenting last election how totally incompetent the previous labor Government was under Beattie and that things would only get worse if they were returned, sure 'enuff, that's what happened.  I am no great seer but if I can see it, any one can see that rewarding incompetence is a fast slope to oblivion.  Same thing again, if labor get in it will get worse because all you are doing is reinforcing to them that their continual incompetence can be rewarded with re-election, if the LNP get in, it will still be just as bad but might not deteriorate..
> 
> I have no beef with voters who are happy with the mess we are in, my only beef is with those voters that new labour where doing a terrible job but voted for them anyway.
> 
> ...




Yes mate , but you are a pointy head. In other words you think and rationalise. Most voters are those folk in the car beside yours with rings in their noses and hair that points to heaven.

I did a garpalpoll this morning in Woolies and Dan Murphys and Labor is history. Big time. Mundingburra may even go. LNP in a landslide is myop.

I spoke to a Sydney mate in Surrey St., where government federally is run from, and thay have stopped sending noddy stooges for the cameras up to Queensland as of midday today.

gg


----------



## Wysiwyg (20 March 2009)

Lawrence Springborg will not be Premier of Queensland on Sunday morning.


----------



## sails (20 March 2009)

Wysiwyg said:


> Lawrence Springborg will not be Premier of Queensland on Sunday morning.




LOL, how could you possibly know for sure?

I'm hoping LNP do win - they might do a better job with Qld Housing..  ...amongst other things...


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (20 March 2009)

Wysiwyg said:


> Lawrence Springborg will not be Premier of Queensland on Sunday morning.



 hra

you may be coorect  but I doubt it.

the latest I've heard from Labor HQ is that all CFMEU and AWU shirts are not to be worn near polling booths.

the Labor strategy is now to have reasonable numbers in opposition.

gg


----------



## Julia (20 March 2009)

alston36 said:


> As for voting Independent, the thought of some out-of-step, single minded, universally unpopular member/s (amongst his peers)  holding the balance of power worries me a lot, the two party system isn't perfect but to go to a lot of trouble and expense to elect 89 members and then enable a minority to call the tune seems ridiculous.



Yes, we've been seeing a pretty good example of this in the Federal arena with Steve Fielding just recently.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (20 March 2009)

Julia said:


> Yes, we've been seeing a pretty good example of this in the Federal arena with Steve Fielding just recently.




agree godbotherers and strippers( is there a difference) make a mockery of parliament.

gg


----------



## beerwm (20 March 2009)

LNP 2.20
ALP 1.67

Closest odds through the whole election;

someone know something i dont.

Pauline Hanson 6.50 -> 7.00


----------



## ghotib (20 March 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> ... I spoke to a Sydney mate in Surrey St., where government federally is run from, ...
> gg



Surrey Street? What Surrey Street? I've googled "Surrey Street, ALP", which gave me nothing informative. Can't think what else to try???

Ghoti (puzzled, again)


----------



## mark_au (20 March 2009)

beerwm said:


> Ok, so labor has failed, health, economy, scandal after scandal, the list goes on.
> 
> But you will vote them in again???
> 
> ...




How about daylight saving for seq . They have members in every seat apparently. A large protest vote there will at least get it back on the agenda for who ever gets in


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (20 March 2009)

ghotib said:


> Surrey Street? What Surrey Street? I've googled "Surrey Street, ALP", which gave me nothing informative. Can't think what else to try???
> 
> Ghoti (puzzled, again)




Correction accepted.

Been driving a double b to the Isa and was overtaking some grey nomads and watching Boston Legal when two sms came through. The mate is buying units in Surrey St. and the ALP HQ is in Sussex St. Got to go. 

gg


----------



## ghotib (21 March 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Correction accepted.
> 
> Been driving a double b to the Isa and was overtaking some grey nomads and watching Boston Legal when two sms came through. The mate is buying units in Surrey St. and the ALP HQ is in Sussex St. Got to go.
> 
> gg



Graciously said GG, but mischievous pedantry wasn't the whole reason for my question. I don't believe that you believe that Sussex Street runs this federal government; not even when you're awake??

Cheers,

Ghoti


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (21 March 2009)

Any exit polls available yet?

gg


----------



## Calliope (21 March 2009)

As I've said previously, Qld elections are won or lost in Brisbane  The result tonight shows that nothing has changed.  SE Queenslanders will not vote for a country bumpkin. To win an election the LNP will have to produce an urbane charismatic leader.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (21 March 2009)

Calliope said:


> As I've said previously, Qld elections are won or lost in Brisbane  The result tonight shows that nothing has changed.  SE Queenslanders will not vote for a country bumpkin. To win an election the LNP will have to produce an urbane charismatic leader.




Sorry mate, count me out, I'd hate to be a politician.

gg


----------



## Beenjammin (21 March 2009)

To echo MarkAU's sentiment, If Springborg had've run in a pro daylight savings platform he might have had a chance at getting the swing he needed and convincing the State he was serious about change. Pity his "country bumpkin" friends in the Nats are still worried about the cows getting confused....nothing worse than a paddock full of confused livestock.....just look at Federal parliament at the moment.......

Could be worse, we could have the MacQuarie Mafia running the show like in NSW.


----------



## beerwm (21 March 2009)

Poor Queensland, 

just watch your $100 billion debt head skywards,


----------



## Wysiwyg (21 March 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Sorry mate, count me out, I'd hate to be a politician.
> 
> gg




Perhaps the leading roll in a parody of "The Second Coming" would entice you out of the recliner rocker and into the spotlight for one final exhilarating performance. :


----------



## Wysiwyg (21 March 2009)

beerwm said:


> Poor Queensland,
> 
> just watch your $100 billion debt head skywards,




What does the wm stand for.

Is it beer wine marijuana?


----------



## beerwm (21 March 2009)

name initials, nothing sinister


----------



## beerwm (21 March 2009)

Wysiwyg said:


> What does the wm stand for.
> 
> Is it beer wine marijuana?




statement is true though, im not 'intoxicated' if that is what you were implying


----------



## Julia (21 March 2009)

Calliope said:


> As I've said previously, Qld elections are won or lost in Brisbane  The result tonight shows that nothing has changed.  SE Queenslanders will not vote for a country bumpkin. To win an election the LNP will have to produce an urbane charismatic leader.



I agree.   Springborg is probably a reasonable bloke but - like Brendan Nelson federally - he just doesn't have any sophistication or real political savvy.





Garpal Gumnut said:


> Sorry mate, count me out, I'd hate to be a politician.
> 
> gg



?????


The LNP did pretty well to get as close as they did.  Hopefully this will represent a wake up call to the hugely delighted Anna Bligh.

Although I didn't vote for Labor, I'm nonetheless pleased to see Australia with its first female Premier.


----------



## Wysiwyg (21 March 2009)

sails said:


> LOL, how could you possibly know for sure?




I took an unbiased view and it was obvious.It wasn`t the party, it was Springborg i.m.o.Don`t worry, if the LNP throw up a party leader they will have a chance.  

I dislike politics anyway.It`s a charade.


----------



## Bill M (21 March 2009)

So much for the polls saying it was close, no where near close. At this moment 50 seats to ALP and only 29 to to LNP. It's a bit like all them gurus saying the all ords will hit 2,000. Take it as it comes and enjoy life.


----------



## kitehigh (22 March 2009)

State politics are a running joke in Australia, especially Qld and NSW(at least in WA they finally tossed them out).  Firstly you have these Govts that have been in power for years and making an absolute meal of it.  Blowing all the revenue that they have been collecting in the boom years and with very little to show for it.  
Corruption scandals coming out every month, inappropriate behaviour, bullying the list goes on. 
But why would they want to change the way they have been doing business when they continue to get re-elected.  If the voters continue to reward poor performance you can expect nothing different from the elected officials, because they have been told loud and clear by the voters that's it fine to do a piss poor job and continue to hold their seats.  

Than their are the opposition parties that can't get their act together and put any real pressure on the incumbent Govts.  

Oh well I guess we can look forward to higher rates and taxes in Qld, so we can continue to subsides those useless politicians.  
Why do we need so many of these useless bureaucrats who are a drain on the public purse.  They don't seem to serve any real purpose or need.


----------



## Knobby22 (22 March 2009)

I was watching "The Insiders" this morning and many of the pundits blamed the LIB/Nats doing so badly because the policies were not provided in any detail. Pretty much what Julie said were her reservations earlier in this thread. 

You have to win government. You can't wait for the others to lose it.


----------



## kitehigh (22 March 2009)

Knobby22 said:


> I was watching "The Insiders" this morning and many of the pundits blamed the LIB/Nats doing so badly because the policies were not provided in any detail. Pretty much what Julie said were her reservations earlier in this thread.
> 
> You have to win government. You can't wait for the others to lose it.




Sounds about right, the opposition in both NSW and Qld are bloody hopeless at getting a clear msg across so the labor Govt have managed to run riot without being held accountable.  The old saying that you need a strong opposition to keep the incumbents accountable is so true.  Bloody politics!!


----------



## daisy (22 March 2009)

O.K. so Anna’s back and Laurie’s standing down. Laurie worked for years to put the LNP together and my hat goes off to him. But don’t you think he was doing the splits trying to bridge wet and dry libs and wet and dry nats? There must be more factions in LNP than in just about any other political party in Oz. Bit like trying to herd cats as the saying goes. Now Laurie’s standing down, the fun and games begin.
 Knife in the back anyone?


----------



## grace (22 March 2009)

It came down to advertising - Anna's one liners "more jobs, not cuts" she said over and over and over in your head, until the people of QLD could not think of anything else.  So they voted Labor. 

So, Anna got in, not on her Leadership ability, it was her smart marketing people.  What about the telemarketers - vote labor, vote labor...what a con job.  

Lawrence wanted to get rid of the fat cats in the beaurocracy - he lost every public servant vote (if he ever had them).  There was doubt in their mind on how he was going to go about saving that money in that sector.  Would they lose their job?  Even though he said over and over, no job cuts but efficency program.  I think this cost him the job. 

Big problem now, my kids are going to be paying for Labor debt for a long long time in taxes.   Queenslanders will get what they deserve with Labor....wait until she does this Budget, all that money gone, the royalty revenue smashed....poor Anna, you've spent it in the boom, you rats.  What are you going to do now when you have to think about what you are doing.  She couldn't afford to go to an election after the budget - she would have lost!!!!!!!!


----------



## Julia (22 March 2009)

grace said:


> It came down to advertising - Anna's one liners "more jobs, not cuts" she said over and over and over in your head, until the people of QLD could not think of anything else.  So they voted Labor.
> 
> So, Anna got in, not on her Leadership ability, it was her smart marketing people.  What about the telemarketers - vote labor, vote labor...what a con job.



Grace, I'm not sure that this is really true, at least across the whole population.   I wasn't in the least swayed by anything Anna Bligh or her advertising said.   I didn't vote for her.  But not because of any advertising or marketing.  I did not receive a single telemarketing call (on the Do Not Call register).



> Lawrence wanted to get rid of the fat cats in the beaurocracy - he lost every public servant vote (if he ever had them).  There was doubt in their mind on how he was going to go about saving that money in that sector.  Would they lose their job?  Even though he said over and over, no job cuts but efficency program.  I think this cost him the job.



No.  You can't attribute his loss to the public servants voting against him.
I really wanted to toss Labor out.  Really wanted to feel able to vote for the LNP.   But *there was just no detail about how they were going to fund their promises* which overall seemed rather vague anyway.
To say "we will access a 3% dividend across the board" smacks of a wish rather than carefully calculated savings.  Had they been able to say "we will take $X from ABC   and $XX from XYZ etc, then I could have believed he had actually done the calculations, as opposed to making a wild statement which he hoped would work out in practice.

In short, I found Lawrence Springbord not credible on an economic front.






> Big problem now, my kids are going to be paying for Labor debt for a long long time in taxes.   Queenslanders will get what they deserve with Labor....wait until she does this Budget, all that money gone, the royalty revenue smashed....poor Anna, you've spent it in the boom, you rats.  What are you going to do now when you have to think about what you are doing.  She couldn't afford to go to an election after the budget - she would have lost!!!!!!!!



No argument from me here.  And then there will be debt to service from the Feds as well.

All up I'd say no winners as far as the Queensland population is concerned.
Just another bunch of politicians spinning for all they're worth, essentially concerned only for their own gain.

We have a couple of absolutely decent independents in Chris Foley and Peter Wellington, but those aside, it's no damn wonder the voting public are as cynical as they are.


----------



## Bill M (22 March 2009)

I was up on the Gold Coast the last week. The election was the last thing on my mind until I saw the TV ads. The one single ad that stuck in my mind was the Labor ad where they repeated what Springborg said the night before. He said something along the lines of "we will be looking for how we fund those issues", that just blew me away. I wouldn't have voted for someone like that, sounded very amateurish to me. Good to see a female elected in her own rights and good to see democracy in action. The people have spoken, now it's time to get on with the job, good luck Queensland, you are a great state.


----------



## beerwm (22 March 2009)

Pop; 4mil
Debt; 74 Billion - so far.
its the equivilent of Aus having 400 billion debt. [and the GFC hasnt even begun to hurt]
economic creditability?

4 terms.. add a 5th.

*fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.*


----------



## Wysiwyg (22 March 2009)

Bill M said:


> The people have spoken, now it's time to get on with the job, good luck Queensland, you are a great state.




Yes well done Qld. Labor Party.  Keeping the ship steady through the rough seas.


----------



## beerwm (23 March 2009)

Wysiwyg said:


> unbiased






Wysiwyg said:


> Yes well done Qld. Labor Party.




unbiased still


----------



## Calliope (23 March 2009)

Ms Bligh had an easy win. Now comes the tricky bit...to do all those unpopular  things, which if she had done prior to the election, would have produced a different result. 

Kickstarting the dam would be a good start.


----------



## grace (23 March 2009)

Julia







> Grace, I'm not sure that this is really true, at least across the whole population.   I wasn't in the least swayed by anything Anna Bligh or her advertising said.   I didn't vote for her.  But not because of any advertising or marketing.  I did not receive a single telemarketing call (on the Do Not Call register).



Neither did I, but they were active with this.




> No.  You can't attribute his loss to the public servants voting against him. I really wanted to toss Labor out.  Really wanted to feel able to vote for the LNP.   But *there was just no detail about how they were going to fund their promises* which overall seemed rather vague anyway.
> To say "we will access a 3% dividend across the board" smacks of a wish rather than carefully calculated savings.  Had they been able to say "we will take $X from ABC   and $XX from XYZ etc, then I could have believed he had actually done the calculations, as opposed [to making a wild statement which he hoped would work out in practice



.

Labor provided a one page explanation to their promises, LNP provided 35 pages.  See, not even you got it and you are much smarter than the general population!  Funnily enough, the more honest you are, the more trouble you get into as a politician.  Better just to make wild promises with no backup.  After all,  Anna can't keep jobs in QLD, everyone knows it, I know it, you know it, but it was her "McDonalds" style marketing campaign that got her over the line.



> In short, I found Lawrence Springbord not credible on an economic front.




Why would that be?


----------



## Julia (23 March 2009)

grace said:


> Julia
> Neither did I, but they were active with this.



Plenty of advertising from the LNP also.


.



> Labor provided a one page explanation to their promises, LNP provided 35 pages.  See, not even you got it and you are much smarter than the general population!



I looked at the LNP website and could see no reference to how they proposed to fund their promises.







> Why would that be?



Grace, I've already explained this.   To repeat, I found the suggestion of using a "3% efficiency dividend" vague.   There was no detail that I saw which described where this would come from.  Didn't see even a single example.

I don't have much faith in the Bligh machine either, though feel happier now that Robertson has been sacked from Health.


----------



## Trevor_S (23 March 2009)

Bill M said:


> He said something along the lines of "we will be looking for how we fund those issues", that just blew me away. I wouldn't have voted for someone like that




I guess that explains some of the voter apathy and why I never understand the electorate.  Assuming there are a plethora of like minded voters, within 15 seconds of seeing an ad from from the other side, you had formed an opinion of an entire potential government...  and yet 18 years of incompetence of labour governments gets swept under the carpets by the electorate, amazing. 

I see no electoral advantage in him giving out any funding information, if he had gotten in he would have had to make widespread cuts to try and recover some modicum of fiscal responsibility.  If he said something like that prior to the election the sort of voter that can't think past then end of the next beer would not have voted for him and anyone else would have called him a lair when he got in and promptly made widespread cuts.  Unfortunately being ethical won't get you elected, you have to lie, obfuscate and misdirect, that's what enough of the public will vote for to get you in.


----------



## windy (23 March 2009)

The LNP did poorly in the Brisbane area. That could be a result of  the poisoning effects flouride has on the population, implemented just recently. How convenient that would be!!


----------



## noco (23 March 2009)

*
So Anna won for Labor on the back of the ususal Labor and Union propapganda machine in full swing. Tell enough lies and as often as you can and the naive people will swallow it.
Anna never explained where all the money from the mining  royalties have gone.
Anna did explain why she lost  Queensland 's AAA rating.
Anna did explain why she has over 600 "SPIN DOCTERS" ON HER PAY ROLL.
Anna still has not explained how she will pay off the massive debt of some $70 odd billion. Will she raise taxes and say she had a mandate to do it?

Well folks, that's democracy, so now we will just have to wait for the next exciting episode! Anna the magician, will have to pull the rabbit out of the hat to get out of this one.

Lets see what happens to the Townsville hospital in 3 years.

Good luck to all Queenslanders*


----------



## Conza88 (23 March 2009)

I wrote in Ron Paul.

Crossed them all out, and wrote pro Liberty quotes on the ballot.

Fck em, no party was worthy enough to get my tax dollars (they get $.20? per no. 1 vote)

I just saved the taxpayer some money.


----------



## Wysiwyg (23 March 2009)

beerwm said:


> unbiased still




No


----------



## Wysiwyg (23 March 2009)

Conza88 said:


> I wrote in Ron Paul.
> 
> Crossed them all out, and wrote pro Liberty quotes on the ballot.
> 
> ...



That`s clever, you are on to something there.Can I suggest next time a paper plane flying competition.


----------



## noco (24 March 2009)

noco said:


> * CORRECTION
> So Anna won for Labor on the back of the ususal Labor and Union propapganda machine in full swing. Tell enough lies and as often as you can and the naive people will swallow it.
> Anna never explained where all the money from the mining  royalties have gone.
> Anna did not explain why she lost  Queensland 's AAA rating.
> ...



*

Please note correction; Ileftout a couple of not's.*


----------



## Punisher (24 March 2009)

Condolences to all Queenslanders.
:bad:


----------



## Conza88 (24 March 2009)

Wysiwyg said:


> That`s clever, you are on to something there.Can I suggest next time a paper plane flying competition.




Sorry champ, standing by your principles isn't child's play. You can have your paper planes and rattle, I'll stick with my convictions and a clear conscience.


----------



## Wysiwyg (24 March 2009)

Punisher said:


> Condolences to all Queenslanders.
> :bad:



Commiserations to all skirt wearing chopstick twirlers.


----------



## Trevor_S (24 March 2009)

I see in todays paper (local rag, the TDB), there was a quip that 5,500 labor "supporters" voted for the LAB candidate in Hinchinbrook.  The candidate lived on the Gold Coast, said he had only ever driven through Cardwell once, never intended to move there, never campaigned at all and never spoke to the media, yet 5500 voters actually voted for him...

These are the sort of people that vote in Government...  one has to wonder.


----------



## Julia (24 March 2009)

What is the LAB?


----------



## beerwm (26 March 2009)

Cutting jobs,

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/comments/0,23836,25243027-3102,00.html

QLD voters sucked in again,
smart state?


----------



## moXJO (26 March 2009)

beerwm said:


> Cutting jobs,
> 
> http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/comments/0,23836,25243027-3102,00.html
> 
> ...




Lol seems Labor has caught onto using the media to full effect. Their spin team is second to none. Although it seems to have progressed to outright lies now.


----------



## grace (26 March 2009)

beerwm said:


> Cutting jobs,
> 
> http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/comments/0,23836,25243027-3102,00.html
> 
> ...




LNP lost the election on this point - stop wastage in govt was their Policy.  Anna gets in and the first thing she says is that she is going to stop wastage (after slamming the LNP on it in the campaign).  A very cunning Labor party indeed.


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## Julia (26 March 2009)

grace said:


> LNP lost the election on this point - stop wastage in govt was their Policy.



Grace, the LNP didn't lose just on this point.  In fact, it was one of the reasons I voted for the LNP.  The reasons for their losing were otherwise and have already been discussed.

So what do you all want now?  Do you actually want the Bligh government to tolerate excesses on the part of the public service, or do you want the most efficient use of your tax dollars by seeing unnecessary fat trimmed from said public service?

The ALP has won the election.  Not much point in continuing to criticise everything they do, even when it exactly equates to what you liked in the LNP.

Although I didn't vote for her, I'm prepared to have an open mind about Anna Bligh and think she's off to a good start.


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## Garpal Gumnut (26 March 2009)

Julia said:


> Grace, the LNP didn't lose just on this point.  In fact, it was one of the reasons I voted for the LNP.  The reasons for their losing were otherwise and have already been discussed.
> 
> So what do you all want now?  Do you actually want the Bligh government to tolerate excesses on the part of the public service, or do you want the most efficient use of your tax dollars by seeing unnecessary fat trimmed from said public service?
> 
> ...




Julia, I ended up voting Labor because they had more mongrel in them than the LNP. I think the LNP will sort themselves out and get up next time, but the LNP are a rabble at present and people voted for the devil they knew.

Are the LNP , Libs, Nats or LNP, only time will tell.

gg


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## beerwm (26 March 2009)

Julia said:


> Grace, the LNP didn't lose just on this point.  In fact, it was one of the reasons I voted for the LNP.  The reasons for their losing were otherwise and have already been discussed.
> 
> So what do you all want now?  Do you actually want the Bligh government to tolerate excesses on the part of the public service, or do you want the most efficient use of your tax dollars by seeing unnecessary fat trimmed from said public service?
> 
> ...




Ofcourse the Jobs compaign won them the election;
-Anna Bligh said on a TV ad 'jobs its in our DNA'
-ads saying Springborg would make jobs 'denecessary'.
-bligh to creat 100,000 new jobs
-construction projects. stadium
-etc, etc

Nothing wrong with reducing waste,

But if you go into an election with a standpoint of CREATING jobs and then less than a week after winning you cut jobs, its just a calculated lie.

Nothing less than what i expect from this goverment.


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## Julia (26 March 2009)

The version I heard of this announcement today came from ABC Radio which said that despite 23 government departments being amalgamated to 13 (may have those numbers not quite right but close enough), no jobs would be lost.
The basis for the change was said to be a more efficient functioning of the public service.


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## Garpal Gumnut (26 March 2009)

beerwm said:


> Ofcourse the Jobs compaign won them the election;
> -Anna Bligh said on a TV ad 'jobs its in our DNA'
> -ads saying Springborg would make jobs 'denecessary'.
> -bligh to creat 100,000 new jobs
> ...






Julia said:


> The version I heard of this announcement today came from ABC Radio which said that despite 23 government departments being amalgamated to 13 (may have those numbers not quite right but close enough), no jobs would be lost.
> The basis for the change was said to be a more efficient functioning of the public service.




You should be aware that many in the Public Service in Queensland are there because their parents or grandparents worked there. 

It is a very incestuous environment.

It is virtually impossible to get sacked from Q Govt. Departments e.g Queensland Health.

Should there be a rationalisation there would be a huge impost on Centrelink, and Kevin Rudd realises this having tried to weed out the incompetents from the gardeners up to the mandarins when he worked for Goss.

gg


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## rederob (27 March 2009)

Conza88 said:


> I wrote in Ron Paul.
> 
> Crossed them all out, and wrote pro Liberty quotes on the ballot.
> 
> ...



As one of the many that "scrutineered" the count, we laughed at the idiots that are incapable of understanding the electoral process and prefer to spoil their ballot.  Informal votes outnumbered total votes for 2 of the candidates at the booth I attended.
Most of the people that spoiled their votes would also have failed a spelling test. Micky Mouse and Goofey (sic) got votes, again.  So did Pauline Hansen (sic) despite not being on the ticket.  
Next time you don't want to vote, just don't come along, and provide your legitimate excuse for not voting to the electoral commissioner.  That way you save your time and money, plus the $1.54737 that eligible candidates receive per primary vote.  
Better still, if you think you can do a better job, nominate as a candidate and have a crack at exploring what democracy is actually about.  It's damned hard work, irrespective of whether or not you run as an independent, or for one of the major parties. Candidates have to have a view on everything thrown at them, and be able to defend what they say.


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## Conza88 (28 March 2009)

rederob said:


> As one of the many that "scrutineered" the count, we laughed at the idiots that are incapable of understanding the electoral process and prefer to spoil their ballot.  Informal votes outnumbered total votes for 2 of the candidates at the booth I attended.




Haha  that's good. Please don't rope me in with those fools thanks. 

I understand it extremely well, which is why I indirectly chose to vote against it.

Maybe the scrutineer will google Ron Paul? 



> Most of the people that spoiled their votes would also have failed a spelling test. Micky Mouse and Goofey (sic) got votes, again.  So did Pauline Hansen (sic) despite not being on the ticket.




Haha, democracy - yep, it's a joke.



> Next time you don't want to vote, just don't come along, and provide your legitimate excuse for not voting to the electoral commissioner.  That way you save your time and money, plus the $1.54737 that eligible candidates receive per primary vote.




I'd prefer not to lie, although that would be morally acceptable. i.e You are justified in lying to a robbber / your overlords, when they ask you to tell them where your children are hiding.

*24. The Moral Status of Relations to the State *

The Ethics of Liberty by Murray N. Rothbard - Audiobook



> Better still, if you think you can do a better job, nominate as a candidate and have a crack at exploring what democracy is actually about.  It's damned hard work, irrespective of whether or not you run as an independent, or for one of the major parties. Candidates have to have a view on everything thrown at them, and be able to defend what they say.




Possibly in the future, but probably not. At the moment I'll *Abstain from Beans.* Thanks 

"When we place voting into the framework of politics, however, a major change occurs. When we express a preference politically, we do so precisely because we intend to bind others to our will. Political voting is the legal method we have adopted and extolled for obtaining monopolies of power. Political voting is nothing more than the assumption that might makes right. There is a presumption that any decision wanted by the majority of those expressing a preference must be desirable, and the inference even goes so far as to presume that anyone who differs from a majority view is wrong or possibly immoral."​


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## Wysiwyg (28 March 2009)

Conza88 said:


> "When we place voting into the framework of politics, however, a major change occurs. When we express a preference politically, we do so precisely because we intend to bind others to our will. Political voting is the legal method we have adopted and extolled for obtaining monopolies of power. Political voting is nothing more than the assumption that might makes right. There is a presumption that any decision wanted by the majority of those expressing a preference must be desirable, and the inference even goes so far as to presume that anyone who differs from a majority view is wrong or possibly immoral."​




I didn`t vote until I was 28 because I stayed in one place for too long and they found me. 

Anyway I`m older now and I once thought like you.Anti-establishment, no nukes, no wars but I grew out of it and came to understand the way of the world and the need for hierarchy and order within a society.Without order there is chaos.Compare the governance of Zimbabwe with Australia and your mind could expand to see the need for order and stability for ALL citizens.

`Your` intent to bind, assumptions, presumptions, inferences and morals are yours for as long as you want.Maybe some specifics as to a better way would be useful to help society become a better place to live in.All `your` preferences of course.


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## rederob (28 March 2009)

Conza88 said:


> Haha  that's good. Please don't rope me in with those fools thanks.



That was your choice.  You think it makes a difference because you wrote something clever? The "Goofey" voters at least put a smile on our faces.


> I understand it extremely well, which is why I indirectly chose to vote against it.



Your choice was hardly "indirect".  You made a conscious decision to not vote for a candidate.  You thought you were making some kind of a point, or statement.  
In reality you chose to be a "nobody" - someone who in this instance just didn't matter.


> Maybe the scrutineer will google Ron Paul?



We might have taken you more seriously if you suggested Richard Epstein.


> Haha, democracy - yep, it's a joke.



No. Those that chose to waste their votes rather than try and make a difference were the joke.


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## Julia (28 March 2009)

Conza88 said:


> Haha  that's good. Please don't rope me in with those fools thanks.
> 
> I understand it extremely well, which is why I indirectly chose to vote against it......................



 etc/
So, Conza, I'm sure you won't mind giving us a detailed account of the sort of alternative system you must have in mind for running our society?


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## Conza88 (28 March 2009)

rederob said:


> That was your choice.  You think it makes a difference because you wrote something clever? The "Goofey" voters at least put a smile on our faces.




It makes a difference to me. I stood by my principles. I would have chosen not to vote, if that was an option. Pity the state says otherwise. I'm glad you got enjoyment out of others being FORCED to do something.



> Your choice was hardly "indirect".  You made a conscious decision to not vote for a candidate.  You thought you were making some kind of a point, or statement.




I am forced to vote. The threat of violence is and coercion are used. They give me a fine. I am indifferent to their bs. Then what? Goal etc. It has happened before. But that's right, I made a conscious decision to not vote in someone who is going to be my overlord. And instead I chose to write in someone who represents Liberty, Peace and Prosperity. Principled stand. 



> In reality you chose to be a "nobody" - someone who in this instance just didn't matter.




My vote wouldn't have mattered regardless. And none of those who voted for evil, mattered either. You definition of "mattered" isn't the same as mine.

Being "counted", doesn't "matter" to me. Being counted, as someone who doesn't want to impose my will on others, does matter to me though. 



> We might have taken you more seriously if you suggested Richard Epstein.
> 
> No. Those that chose to waste their votes rather than try and make a difference were the joke.




Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide. – John Adams (1814)

Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. – James Bovard (1994)

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until a majority of voters discover that they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury. – Alexander Tytler

Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance. – H.L. Mencken

Our democracy is but a name. We vote? What does that mean? It means that we choose between two bodies of real, though not avowed, autocrats. We choose between Tweedledum and Tweedledee. – Helen Keller

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. – Thomas Jefferson 

A democracy is a place where numerous elections are held, at great cost, without issues, and with interchangeable candidates. – Gore Vidal

Our country's founders cherished liberty, not democracy. – US House Congressional Resolution 48 "A Republic; not a Democracy", sponsored by Ron Paul, 3/6/01.

"Democracy – A government of the masses. Authority derived through mass meeting or any form of direct expression. Results in mobocracy. Attitude toward property is communistic – negating property rights. Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether it is based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard for consequences. Results in demagogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy." – 1928 U.S. Army Training Manual 

Democracy is indispensable to Socialism. – V.I. Lenin

Democracy is the road to Socialism. – Karl Marx​
I could go on....


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## rederob (28 March 2009)

Conza88 said:


> I could go on....



You did go on.... and on... .
There is not a scintilla of logic to your position, so it's yours for the keeping.
You might think you are smarter than the other informal voters but, when it all boils down, you just don't count.


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## Julia (28 March 2009)

Conza88 said:


> It makes a difference to me. I stood by my principles. I would have chosen not to vote, if that was an opt
> [/INDENT]
> 
> I could go on....



Well, why don't you?  I'm still waiting for your plan of how we can otherwise run our society.

It's very easy to be critical of what we have, and I'm sure many of us would agree that it's far from perfect, but your criticism is hollow if you can't offer an alternative.


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## Trevor_S (28 March 2009)

Julia said:


> It's very easy to be critical of what we have, and I'm sure many of us would agree that it's far from perfect, but your criticism is hollow if you can't offer an alternative.




It's unfortunate that democracies are so steeped in the past.  Imagine if we evolved our way of living at the same pace democracies evolved, we'd still be living by candle.

There is no need to throw it out but the democracy as we want it to be is dead and is badly in need of reformation to bring it into the modern arena. They were formed at a time when education was a non issue, transportation and communication where primitive at best and warfare was a bow and arrow.

I would suggest, for Australia, a modicum of political reform would be.
1. Removal of states
2. Removal of the Senate
3. Outlaw political parties
4. Considerable reformation of tort law
5. Massive reformation of social security (it will cripple us eventually), as Thomas Jefferson suggested)
6. Massive reformation of the tax act
7. Massive reformation of the the justice system (even the judiciary have admitted the law is beyond understanding anymore)
8. Have the public directly vote on issues, once a month, on line.. bang, you have your answer (non compulsory) 


as a very simple start.  

Will it engage many more citizens ? perhaps not but for those of us that are concerned, we can at least see the cess pool getting clearer instead of more murky.

Government is oibviusly unabel to do just that, they rely on the passive subjugation of citizens to comply with their nonsense, and that's all they ever come up with, nonsense or a singular good idea takes decades.  Super was conceptualised in Australia by Menzies for example.

Fundamentally I believe in the principle of liberty over democracy, not the other way round.


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## Conza88 (29 March 2009)

Julia said:


> etc/
> So, Conza, I'm sure you won't mind giving us a detailed account of the sort of alternative system you must have in mind for running our society?






Julia said:


> Well, why don't you?  I'm still waiting for your plan of how we can otherwise run our society.
> 
> It's very easy to be critical of what we have, and I'm sure many of us would agree that it's far from perfect, but your criticism is hollow if you can't offer an alternative.




I don't think a society needs to be RUN or MANAGED by anyone... bar individuals following the non aggression axiom and Lockean homesteading private property rights. I follow Individualism not collectivism.

I follow the Austrian School of economics. That should be enough to understand where I am coming from but yeah:

I've just come home from a night out.. I'd love to expand on it tomorrow. 

Sleeeeeeeeeep awaits.


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## rederob (29 March 2009)

Trevor_S said:


> ......
> as a very simple start.
> 
> Will it engage many more citizens ? perhaps not but for those of us that are I believe in the principle of liberty over democracy, not the other way round.



Your reforms would place power in the hands of the wealthy - no more, no less.


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## rederob (29 March 2009)

Conza88 said:


> I don't think a society needs to be RUN or MANAGED by anyone... bar individuals following the non aggression axiom and Lockean homesteading private property rights.



In other words you do believe societies need to be RUN and MANAGED by *certain* people.


> I follow Individualism not collectivism.Your "individual" rights are supported by the collective will of the people to protect them. I follow the Austrian School of economics. That should be enough to understand where I am coming from but yeah:



A quote from the von Mises site a few week ago: "The majority of the voters are just dull and mentally inert people who dislike thinking and are easily deceived by the enticing promises of irresponsible pied pipers."
Von Mises views are totally at odds with modern day politics.
At last week's State elections the Electoral Commission booth chief (where I attended) estimated that about half the voters entered without a wad of polling propaganda from the Party's manning the gates: The first time he had seen such a large number who knew exactly how they would vote.


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## grace (29 March 2009)

Julia said:


> Grace, the LNP didn't lose just on this point.  In fact, it was one of the reasons I voted for the LNP.  The reasons for their losing were otherwise and have already been discussed.
> 
> So what do you all want now?  Do you actually want the Bligh government to tolerate excesses on the part of the public service, or do you want the most efficient use of your tax dollars by seeing unnecessary fat trimmed from said public service?
> 
> ...




Yes, it is what I wanted - cutting the waste, but Anna should have been honest enough to say that in the campaign, instead of after! (rather than bagging the LNP for the idea during the campaign).  Full of lies the Labor party.  As I've said before, the only way to win an election is to be dishonest in your campaign.

But I will concede, she has one thing going for her, she is female (had better start running at this point before I get shot down)....


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## Conza88 (29 March 2009)

Trevor_S said:


> 8. Have the public directly vote on issues, once a month, on line.. bang, you have your answer (non compulsory)
> 
> Fundamentally I believe in the principle of liberty over democracy, not the other way round.




You believe in the principle of Liberty over democracy? But wish to impose a Pure Democracy?  

The joke goes:

"What are the two most historically important people to Western Civilization? Arguably, but agreeably - Socrates and Jesus Christ.
Who killed Socrates and Jesus Christ?

_Democracy did._"​


rederob said:


> In other words you do believe societies need to be RUN and MANAGED by *certain* people.




In otherwords, no. You can't RUN or MANAGE an economy. To understand that, you need to question your premises. What is an economy? It's essentially the market. And the market is made up from individual, human action.

That is the fundamental premise of the Austrian School / free market supporters. Human action which is axiomatic _(self evident_). Humans exist. They act. Using a priori reasoning _(deductive)_, other axioms can be discovered. (And have been).

Human Action: A Treatise on Economics is the magnum opus of the Austrian economist Ludwig von Mises. It presents a case for laissez-faire capitalism based on Mises' praxeology, or rational investigation of human decision-making. It rejects positivism within economics. It defends an a priori epistemology and underpins praxeology with a foundation of methodological individualism and laws of apodictic certainty. Mises argues that the free-market economy not only outdistances any government-planned system, but ultimately serves as the foundation of civilization itself.​
Mises Media Section, Mises Literature section - free Audiobooks, lectures, full books in PDF form, amazingly wealth of knowledge.

But to get back on track:

Those who abide by the non aggression axiom and private property rights don't impose themselves on others.

*The Non-Aggression Axiom of Libertarianism by Walter Block*

The non-aggression axiom is the lynchpin of the philosophy of libertarianism. It states, simply, that it shall be legal for anyone to do anything he wants, provided only that he not initiate (or threaten) violence against the person or legitimately owned property of another. That is, in the free society, one has the right to manufacture, buy or sell any good or service at any mutually agreeable terms. Thus, there would be no victimless crime prohibitions, price controls, government regulation of the economy, etc.

If the non-aggression axiom is the basic building block of libertarianism, private property rights based on (Lockean and Rothbardian) homesteading principles are the foundation. For if A reaches into B’s pocket, pulls out his wallet and runs away with it, we cannot know that A is the aggressor and B the victim. It may be that A is merely repossessing his own wallet, the one B stole from him yesterday. But given a correct grounding in property rights, the non-aggression axiom is a very powerful tool in the war of ideas. For most individuals believe, and fervently so, that it is wrong to invade other people or their property. Who, after all, favors theft, murder or rape? With this as an entering wedge, libertarians are free to apply this axiom to all of human action, including, radically, to unions, taxes, and even government itself.​


> A quote from the von Mises site a few week ago: "The majority of the voters are just dull and mentally inert people who dislike thinking and are easily deceived by the enticing promises of irresponsible pied pipers."
> Von Mises views are totally at odds with modern day politics.
> 
> At last week's State elections the Electoral Commission booth chief (where I attended) estimated that about half the voters entered without a wad of polling propaganda from the Party's manning the gates: The first time he had seen such a large number who knew exactly how they would vote.




Haha, so your contention is: they have *not* been influenced by the mainstream media at all, and that they have all critically analysed the politicians policies and promises, in relation to their previous actions? 

You also contend that, because someone hasn't taken those pamphlets - that means something? It means they've made their mind up? You can't seriously believe, whether someone takes a pamphlett or not - that it means they THINK.

The propaganda didn't start at the gate of the school, it'd been going for the last month.

And furthermore: I TOOK those pamphlets, and I didn't vote for anyone. Essentially they were all shoved into my hand, but that doesn't change the fact - you're thesis is wrong.


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## rederob (29 March 2009)

Conza88 said:


> And furthermore: I TOOK those pamphlets, and I didn't vote for anyone. Essentially they were all shoved into my hand, but that doesn't change the fact - you're thesis is wrong.



My thesis was that, in wasting your opportunity to vote, you are no different to the fools who spoiled their votes and were not part of the formal count.
Your foolishness was further compounded by taking voting pamphlets, despite knowing your vote would be informal: Were you going from dumb to dumber?

Unfortunately your other points have little to do with the theme of the Queensland election.  And von Mises point about the free-market economy outdistancing any government-planned system is total bunkum.  It has unravelled yet again, and is being frantically bailed out by governments around the world, as we write.


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## Curlz31 (29 March 2009)

Conza is 100% correct.

I find it funny that on a forum where people should be knowledgable about the market, people dont support its superiority in allocating resources and raising standards of living for poor people.

What we have now is not a market. The basis of the monetary system is a socialist central bank and a banking system which allows fractional reserves.

This is not capitalism. In fact, central banks are the reason we have a business cycle. The idea that the business cycle is inherent in the market is total nonsence. Ludwig Von Mises and Friedrich Hayek were 100% right and Keynes is a lunatic, witchdoctor.

If we had commodity standards and a banking system with 100% reserves for demand deposits. We would have sustainable growth WITH NO BUST.

You all support this fiat Keynesian system and yet you ignore the fact that IT ALONE causes the business cycle and the huge recessions and depressions.


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## Conza88 (30 March 2009)

rederob said:


> My thesis was that, in wasting your opportunity to vote, you are no different to the fools who spoiled their votes and were not part of the formal count.




There was nothing worth voting for. Thus there was no waste.



> Your foolishness was further compounded by taking voting pamphlets, despite knowing your vote would be informal: Were you going from dumb to dumber?




It required less effort of me to accept them, than it would have taken for me to refuse them. And believe it or not, I didn't want to offend the fools who sat outside all day, trying to beat the other supporters in forcing a piece of paper into a strangers hand, in the vein hope they'll acknowledge it, and follow the instructions outlined, so that hopefully enough of these people will do it, their candidate will get elected, they'll remain or obtain power, and then proceed to fck **** up even more.

Tweedle dumb or tweedle dee? Better yet:







> Unfortunately your other points have little to do with the theme of the Queensland election.  And von Mises point about the free-market economy outdistancing any government-planned system is total bunkum.  It has unravelled yet again, and is being frantically bailed out by governments around the world, as we write.




They are related. Political philosophy. 

But seriously, lmao  @ blaming the financial system failing on Capitalism.

Last time I checked, the banking system and monetary policy of the entire US and every country around the world - was run by a Central Bank.

The 5th plank of the Communist Manifesto.


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