# Weather thread for November heatwave



## BradK (22 November 2009)

Hi, 

With the media tripping over themselves, almost WILLING another catastrophic bushfire, I thought I would start a thread of what is actually happening and we could all report on our own areas. 

39c tipped for Wollongong today - but a nice breeze through the place this morning. Even went for a run this morning - starting to heat up a bit, but nice. 

Let's hope that we do NOT have a repeat of February's devastating bushfires, and the irresponsible media should stop beating such into the head of some deranged loner firebug looking for a some attention!! 

Brad


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## Garpal Gumnut (22 November 2009)

BradK said:


> Hi,
> 
> With the media tripping over themselves, almost WILLING another catastrophic bushfire, I thought I would start a thread of what is actually happening and we could all report on our own areas.
> 
> ...




Townsville scattered showers last night.

Very bloody hot day and getting that way already, although as we have an extra hour in each day compared to down south, we'll probably get in to the 30's.

gg


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## wayneL (22 November 2009)

Overcast and coolish today in Havelock North. 

29 degrees yesterday, a perfect day for cafe hopping wine tasting and other such decadence.


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## Boyou (22 November 2009)

26 C here in beautiful bris.Bureau prediction is for 32.
SE Qld is not in the dire situation that the southern states are ,but it is very dry around here.

Spring rains have failed again ,in most parts.We await the monsoons of summer...


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## jbocker (22 November 2009)

26 in Perth.
Looking forward to a wine cruise with Mrs, kids and Co, early Xmas lunch and Birthday for my lad (22) as he leaves next week for 3 months SE Asia tours  with 6 weeks uni summer school in Mumbai India.
Lucky little bast... hey ..if I get him full of P I can nick his ticket!

Perth had 1 freakish hot day in October but the rest has been mild, touch of rain for a couple af days last week.


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## Solly (22 November 2009)

Just logged on to the weather station at The Cove 
Currently Temperature	27.5 °C Humidity 59%
Northerly Winds at 16.0kt gusting to 21.0kt 
1014.1hPa
NOTAM Regarding Schoolies milling around Surfers & coastal areas. This looks noisy and ugly.


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## Tink (22 November 2009)

Absolutely pelting down rain in Melbournes East, about 19, but the humidity is high 

2 days ago we were cooking - 36ish hot and dry

S.A has had it hotter than us this week.

I am enjoying the cool change and its watering my garden : )

It is abit of a worry Brad, too hot too soon. 

I really hope no repeat to Februarys Bushfires anywhere in Australia


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## Smurf1976 (22 November 2009)

4 homes destroyed in the fires in Tas last week.

It was exceptionally wet during Winter, which has produced massive amounts of undergrowth in the bush, but that has been followed by a lack of rain during October and November so it's starting to dry out. Lots of growth and dry is not a good combination. 

But the real worry is that it's only November at the beginning of the dry season, it was only 32 degrees, and already we've got fires burning homes to the ground.

On another matter also related to the heat, NSW came pretty close to running out of electricity last Friday, blackouts avoided by reliance on supply from both Qld and Vic and even then the situation was fairly tight.


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## Aussiejeff (22 November 2009)

Smurf1976 said:


> 4 homes destroyed in the fires in Tas last week.
> 
> It was exceptionally wet during Winter, which has produced massive amounts of undergrowth in the bush, but that has been followed by a lack of rain during October and November so it's starting to dry out. Lots of growth and dry is not a good combination.
> 
> ...




Oh dear, Smurf.... **Shhhh.....**... if not for you, who would have known?


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## gooner (22 November 2009)

37C here in Sydney and rising - will be even warmer in western suburbs


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## tehnoob (22 November 2009)

After 43 on Wednesday I'm at the point of taking the washing to the laundromat. It won't dry with all the rain we're getting! (Adelaide)


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## drsmith (22 November 2009)

Weather is a funny thing. Adelaide may well have had it's hottest day of the summer. It would be interesting to know how often 43 has been cracked there twice or more in the same summer.


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## Wysiwyg (22 November 2009)

Temperatures rise, temperatures fall.
The wind brings heat, no wind holds heat, sea breeze cools, geographic location, surface sea water average temperature can vary up to 7 °C., living beside the coast is cooler than living inland (in summer), valleys are hot in summer, neighbours houses trap heat, if people weren't here it would still happen.

 °C is normal.


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## bunyip (22 November 2009)

I'm about an hour west of Brisbane. Heatwave conditions here for the last week or so, 37 to 41, about 37 today so far.

No hotter than it was in yesteryear though. One day when I was a lad we went for a swim in the river that ran through our place....we only stayed in a few minutes because the water was unpleasantly warm. 
That day hit 112 degrees in the old scale, or 44.5 Celsius in todays language.
Many is the time over the years when I had to put the sprinkler on in the chook pen when the chooks starting dying from heat exhaustion. 
Sometimes we found dozens of dead birds around the paddocks after a hot day.
47 in the shade is the hottest day I remember.

But let's not get all silly and claim that the current heatwave is proof of man-made global warming....we'll leave that sort of idiotic statement to Kevin Rudd.


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## Mr J (22 November 2009)

gooner said:


> 37C here in Sydney and rising - will be even warmer in western suburbs




Google has us at 40 at the moment. It also has at 20 for Monday . Can only imagine how packed the beaches and shopping centres are at the moment.


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## Calliope (22 November 2009)

Smurf1976 said:


> On another matter also related to the heat, NSW came pretty close to running out of electricity last Friday, blackouts avoided by reliance on supply from both Qld and Vic and even then the situation was fairly tight.




Oh dear, I have a bad feeling about this. Does it mean that any downsizing of the fossil fuel base load means that we will have to forego air conditioning during future heat waves? We can't count on boosting wind and solar power on these days, or any other days for that matter.

I have bad memories of the Bjelke Petersen wars with the electricity unions in Qld. when we had brownouts and blackouts for weeks at a time. I remember climbing a stinking hot stairwell up 14 floors to a stinking hot office in midsummer.


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## BradK (22 November 2009)

Nice sea breeze here in Wollongong has dampened the predictions of 40+ temperatures. 

So far so good - not sure what is going on out in the rest of the state. 

Any updates on bushfires?

Brad


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## Zird (22 November 2009)

On days like today there is vast amounts of solar energy bombarding virtually every roof in the country let alone every bit of  vacant land.

What would the situation have been if say 20 years ago governments had made it compulsory to have solar panels on every new house, building, office, factory etc. Plus had given huge rebates to have panels fitted onto existing structures.

What if current research had been funded 2 decades ago to turn all glass windows into solar panels and every roof tile or sheeting in energy collectors.

 Australia should be a leader in solar power - we have the climate, the geography and the intellectual capability. What also we do have is successive governments beholden to the oil and coal industry be it unions or corporations.  We also have politicians so blinkered in their vision that they would not see the sun even if it shone out of their a-holes.

I read this week that at there is a huge solar scheme in Morrocco (I think) that hopes to power 20% of Europe.

Wake up Australia - you have a huge number of hot sunny days, driest inhabitated continent on earth, vast open spaces, vast empty rooves  and no solar industry.  Just completely stupid really.


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## white_crane (22 November 2009)

Currently at my home in NQ it is about 31C and 86% RH - normal November weather.  Luckily there is a breeze blowing.

Thankfully we've been having some rain in recent times.  This might seem a bit ironic after the big floods earlier in the year, but between then and a few weeks ago, we received very little rain.

When you add all this together, it meant that for a few months from late August it was non-stop with bushfires.


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## Wysiwyg (22 November 2009)

Zird said:


> What if current research had been funded 2 decades ago to *turn all glass* *windows into solar panels* and every roof tile or sheeting in energy collectors.



  Can't see through them. 



> Australia should be a leader in solar power - we have the climate, the geography and the intellectual capability.



Yeah massive roof surface area. I read there is tech. from the Australian National University called SLIVER that works the silicone wafer to be more efficient in PV panels.


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## nunthewiser (22 November 2009)

Sunshine and lollipops around here.


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## Zird (22 November 2009)

Hey Wysiwyg - the new research is into using windows for collecting of energy and you can still see through them - the solar panel is a pane of glass . New ideas and technology.  It is just one of many solar possibilities that have potential but research money is totally lacking..

Aussie dont realise how far behind the country is in R & D on alternative energy and probably everything else. We still thinking how great the the rotary clothes line is.  We are probably 20 or 30 years behind Germany. 

The country with the most solar panels per head of pop. is not hot sunny Aus or California but frigid cold Germany.

Apologises but I am off thread topic but still relevant.


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## Smurf1976 (22 November 2009)

Calliope said:


> Oh dear, I have a bad feeling about this. Does it mean that any downsizing of the fossil fuel base load means that we will have to forego air conditioning during future heat waves? We can't count on boosting wind and solar power on these days, or any other days for that matter.



Forecasting power supply reliability is necessarily an exercise in probability since we don't know (1) hot hot it will actually get (2) whether a heatwave would be simultaneous in different states and (3) how reliably the power stations will actually work.

But the simplest way to look at it is this. It is SA, NSW and especially Vic that lack sufficient generating capacity to ensure reliable supply. Combined, they need literally over 99% of their total combined capacity to actually be working during a heatwave. Vic is in the worst situation - it needs supply from SA / NSW / Tas even if everything does work perfectly.

If you include the available supplies from Qld and Tas then SA / NSW / Vic still need 93% of all that's available when the temperature soars.

So in short, we haven't built enough power generation to ensure reliable supply as load has increased. Now we have a system that only copes, just, if everything works perfectly. And you don't need to be an engineer to work out that not everything will actually work perfectly when it's 45 degrees.


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## McCoy Pauley (22 November 2009)

Bucketed down in Melbourne from about 6.30pm or so last night to about 5.00pm this afternoon.  Had just over 2 inches in the old scale in that time, which is a fair drop nowadays.  Was humid as all get out yesterday so we knew it was coming, but it still fun for the children to jump in all the puddles today - and there were a fair few of them around.


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## moXJO (22 November 2009)

BradK said:


> Nice sea breeze here in Wollongong has dampened the predictions of 40+ temperatures.
> 
> 
> 
> Brad




Not at balgownie, it must have been 40+ with heat blast breeze


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## jbocker (23 November 2009)

had a magnificant day. weateher was bewdiful on the wine croose. i love you all


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## BradK (23 November 2009)

I take it back. Yesterday was HORRIBLE... went to the pool in the afternoon, and it was steamy above the water. 

... southerly change came at 11.50pm last night - opened up all the windows and doors and let it through!! 

Hope global warming does not steal the southerly change! 

Brad


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## McCoy Pauley (26 November 2009)

Warm and muggy in Melbourne this morning.  Thunderstorm has just swept down from the north of the city and dumped some rain on the CBD.  Still thundering and flashing lightning as I type.


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## Zird (29 November 2009)

Scary Red  dust storm is engulfing my part of Sydney. Not as thick as the one a month or so ago but I can see, smell and feel the dust.


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## Boyou (29 December 2009)

Didn't know where to put this....and not worth starting a new thread

Just want to rant a bit about the inclement weather..have put camping plans on hold and Woodford Folk fest in the maybe bin. 
Is the widespread rain playing havoc with any plans for other ASF 'ers?


Sure we needed the rain ,but Sheeesh ,not right on holiday time!

End of rant


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## Smurf1976 (29 December 2009)

Absolutely BRILLIANT weather down here in Tassie over Christmas. 

Rained about mid day on Christmas Eve but fine ever since with temperatures in the low 20's. Forecast 34 during the day on the 31st and fine again on the 1st too - so should be a nice warm NYE.

Can't believe it really and neither can many. Rain, rain and more rain during most of the year then suddenly it's fine when most are on holidays. Perfect... 

On a more serious note, it's a pity it's not raining in WA given the fires they have at the moment. Hope everyone's OK.


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## nunthewiser (29 December 2009)

Smurf1976 said:


> Can't believe it really and neither can many. Rain, rain and more rain during most of the year then suddenly it's fine when most are on holidays. Perfect...




Yeah m8 . In fact its been so good over there that the Huon Valley Council has sent me abatement notices early this year .  Seems the conditions there have been great for making paddocks and bush turn into gigantic jungles that need slashing and clearing immediatly..........

Will be there in 2 weeks so lets hope the weather holds


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## Julia (29 December 2009)

Just gorgeous in SE Qld (north of the storm area) also.  Overcast with showers, sultry, about 30, 31.  Around 60mls of rain since Christmas Day.  
The gardens are looking so grateful.  I love summer.


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## Tink (30 December 2009)

Been lovely here too in Melbourne, apart from rain Christmas Eve. 

Its been high 20's, low 30's

A warm NYE in store here too, mid 30's, though they are predicting thunderstorms and rain for New Years Day.

This time last year we were begging for rain.


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## jbocker (27 June 2010)

F F F F Freezing here in P P Perth t t today
who said it is too hot here!
Getting a coffee and back to bed.
Hope all is well weather and otherwise for all.


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## Smurf1976 (28 June 2010)

It's 15 degrees where I'm sitting right now.

And yes, that's with the fire going. Only got home an hour ago and the fire has only got going properly not long ago. It was 12 degrees inside at 9pm.

Bring on Summer...


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## drsmith (4 July 2010)

Smurf1976 said:


> And yes, that's with the fire going. Only got home an hour ago and the fire has only got going properly not long ago. It was 12 degrees inside at 9pm.



The ambient temperature inside my house has been 12 to 13 for over a week and this evening the outside unit of a split system airconditioner iced up. 

There is a strong possibility that tonight will be Perth's coldest on record. Fortunately here we don't need to wait for summer for relief. A northwest wind off the ocean will do.


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## Julia (4 July 2010)

Smurf1976 said:


> It's 15 degrees where I'm sitting right now.
> 
> And yes, that's with the fire going. Only got home an hour ago and the fire has only got going properly not long ago. It was 12 degrees inside at 9pm.
> 
> Bring on Summer...






drsmith said:


> The ambient temperature inside my house has been 12 to 13 for over a week and this evening the outside unit of a split system airconditioner iced up.
> 
> There is a strong possibility that tonight will be Perth's coldest on record. Fortunately here we don't need to wait for summer for relief. A northwest wind off the ocean will do.



Why do you both put up with such miserable temperatures?  Are you trying to save the planet by not heating your homes?


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## drsmith (4 July 2010)

Julia said:


> Why do you both put up with such miserable temperatures?  Are you trying to save the planet by not heating your homes?



Hell no. That's what the house would be without heating.

I have split systems in two rooms. The rest of the house for all effective purposes is unheated. The splits have been getting a serious workout during this cold spell.

During this cold snap Perth has had 11 consecutive nights of 5 degrees or less and it is likely to reach 14 before the wind finally gets around to the northwest and off the ocean. That makes a big difference as it is not only warmer but more humid. The previous record is 9. If it was this cold every winter I would be looking at a heating solution somewhat more substantial than two split systems.


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## Happy (5 July 2010)

Southern Hemisphere has harsher weather than Northern, as it is closer to the Sun during our Summer and further away in Winter.


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## Smurf1976 (6 July 2010)

Julia said:


> Why do you both put up with such miserable temperatures?  Are you trying to save the planet by not heating your homes?



I do heat the house, it just takes quite a while to get up to a decent temperature after being empty and unheated all day.

Long term, I'll get a reverse cycle air-conditioner for heating but for the moment it's mainly wood in the house, plus occasional use of the diesel heater in the workshop / garage downstairs. About this time every year, I start getting fed up messing about carrying logs of wood every day. Then Summer arrives and I forget about the hassle and remember instead the benefits of the fire, thus never getting around to doing something about it. In any event, the cat likes sleeping in front of the fire and probably wouldn't like air-conditioning.


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## Julia (6 July 2010)

$1000?   How often, Smurf?  Is that your annual power bill?  Quarterly?


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## Smurf1976 (6 July 2010)

Julia said:


> $1000?   How often, Smurf?  Is that your annual power bill?  Quarterly?



That's my rough estimate of what I'd spend on firewood, diesel and electricity for heating over a 12 month period.

Firewood - about $600, Diesel - $200, Electrical heating - $200

Long term I'll eventually get around to putting in air-conditioning as I said. Cost of running that should be no more than the wood and electric heating it will replace and has the advantages of no messing about with wood, and being able to stay running nicely all night. Should warm the place up faster too.

The diesel is only to heat the workshop / garage. Most of the consumption occurs on a dozen or so days each year, at the rate of about $1.80 an hour with the heater going flat out. But it does a very good job of heating and is easy - just press a button and it fires up. 5 seconds later there's a huge blast of hot air coming out.


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## Julia (7 July 2010)

Thanks for the rundown, smurf.  That's way cheaper than I'd have imagined would be necessary for somewhere as cold as Tasmania.  Mine is much more than that in Qld.


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## awg (7 July 2010)

Julia said:


> Why do you both put up with such miserable temperatures?  Are you trying to save the planet by not heating your homes?




So they should be trying to save the earth!



drsmith said:


> Hell no. That's what the house would be without heating.






Smurf1976 said:


> I do heat the house, it just takes quite a while to get up to a decent temperature after being empty and unheated all day.




And I thought youse were hard guys like me

My reverse cycle aircon has just broken down, during a cold snap.

15C in the day, 12C at night, inside, so okay really, but the kids are whinging, as they have to put more than a T-shirt on.

My energy cost to run Aircon in Summer and Winter would be in the $400-600
range, taking into account recent price rises. Not needed spring & autumn.

I expect this to keep rising, as mine is powerful enough to need 3-phase power, and energy bills are slated to rise substantially.


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## Julia (7 July 2010)

awg said:


> My reverse cycle aircon has just broken down, during a cold snap.
> 
> 15C in the day, 12C at night, inside, so okay really, but the kids are whinging, as they have to put more than a T-shirt on.



Wow, awg, you're tough!   15 is "okay"?   Wouldn't do me.




> My energy cost to run Aircon in Summer and Winter would be in the $400-600
> range, taking into account recent price rises. Not needed spring & autumn.
> 
> I expect this to keep rising, as mine is powerful enough to need 3-phase power, and energy bills are slated to rise substantially.



I guess it's a case of what matters to you.  If you're genuinely quite comfortable in 15 degrees, then of course you're not going to want to use the heating.   I just hate being cold (the only reason I left NZ), so will happily forgo some other indulgences to keep warm and heat the pool.


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## Logique (7 July 2010)

G'day Julia. 
That's an interesting subject, just what is a comfortable ambient temperature. I really dislike overheated buildings, and it's all too common in offices. Why do people need 22 deg during winter? They know they have to go outside afterwards right? Only to contract flu I guess, and bring it back to infect everybody else. Sorry to sound bitter here. It's like, you know, have they considered putting on a jumper, being winter and all? For mine, 20 deg is plenty in a stuffy office.

I live in coastal NSW, my unheated (except by the sun through the windows) winter temps range between 15 and 22 deg. I rarely bother with heating, unless it's the World Cup at 4:30am. Go Netherlands!


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## Julia (7 July 2010)

Probably depends largely on one's personal comfort level.  I like around 23 and am still wearing at least two layers.  Body build comes into it.  Fat people are insulated against the cold.

Agree with you about stuffiness.

Everyone should have whatever makes them comfortable.  I only raised it because drsmith and smurf were both seeming to be complaining about the cold and saying their houses were around 15.  I was just curious about why they'd willingly be uncomfortable.


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## Smurf1976 (7 July 2010)

Julia said:


> Probably depends largely on one's personal comfort level.  I like around 23 and am still wearing at least two layers.  Body build comes into it.  Fat people are insulated against the cold.
> 
> Agree with you about stuffiness.
> 
> Everyone should have whatever makes them comfortable.  I only raised it because drsmith and smurf were both seeming to be complaining about the cold and saying their houses were around 15.  I was just curious about why they'd willingly be uncomfortable.



Personally I find anything below 21 uncomfortably cold and normally I heat the house to 21 - 22 degrees. Problem is that most days during winter, it's around 12 - 13 inside when I get home and it takes quite a while by the time I carry the wood up the steps into the house, get the fire going, wait for the fire to warm up, then wait for it to actually heat the house. 

As an example, I got home 70 minutes ago and it was 13.5 inside then. Now the fire is starting to really get going and it's up to 15. Give it another half hour and it will have shot up to 21 or so. So it's just a timing issue really.

Ideally, I'd like to install gas central heating since that would be very effective at heating and is relatively cheap to install with the deal the gas company is offering (effectively a $3000 discount on the cost of installing it). Only trouble is, I'm nowhere near a gas pipe... Hence the planned air-conditioner.

Regarding temperatures generally, a few observations:

1. I certainly had fewer colds when I lived in a house that had 24/7 heating and was never cold. No doubt about that at all - I get at least one cold every year now versus very few when living there.

2. At work we actually run the works depot common area where workers start / finsish from at 24 during Winter, 22 during Summer. The reason is simply that with workers out in the cold all day and sometimes getting wet too (we work rain or shine), they like it to be toasty warm when they come back at the end of the day so as to "thaw out". The cost of heating is trivial compared to the benefit of keeping people happy.

Regarding my previous post about costs, I should add that this is only for heating and not including power used for everything else.

One thing that amazes me, is how seemingly unintelligent animals can work things out that humans often fail to grasp. I have some mice with a cage joined by a tunnel to a plastic maze. On one rather cold night, the mice managed to shift fully two _human_ hand fulls of shredded paper through the small tunnel and used it to effectively insulate the maze. Not just paper thrown around randomly - they actually had enough sense to insulate on the other side of the walls of the maze around the area they've decided to sleep in. 8 degrees where they're kept in the garage, very warm inside the maze with all that paper they've taken in. Must have taken them quite some time since a mouse can't really carry too much at once, and they have to go through the tunnel (which is only slightly wider than a mouse) to get it all in. Looks a bit like an igloo the way they've done it, insulated with the paper on all sides with only one small entrance back into the rest of the maze. Smarter than I'd expected...


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## Tink (29 November 2012)

From storms and lightning on Tuesday, we are in store for 40 degrees in Melbourne today.
Summer is here.

We will all be whingeing its too hot soon : )


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## captain black (29 November 2012)

Tink said:


> We will all be whingeing its too hot soon : )




I started my whingeing yesterday when we got to 38. We're going for 44 today 
Taking the Lab down the river for a swim in a minute then sitting under the air con for the rest of the day.


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## CanOz (29 November 2012)

captain black said:


> I started my whingeing yesterday when we got to 38. We're going for 44 today
> Taking the Lab down the river for a swim in a minute then sitting under the air con for the rest of the day.




Is that the Murray river captain? Do you swim in it as well?

How's the kospi trading going?

CanOz


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## captain black (29 November 2012)

CanOz said:


> Is that the Murray river captain? Do you swim in it as well?




Yep, the Murray. I swim in it as well and also kayak on the backwaters/creeks every opportunity I get. Our end of the river was dying a few years ago but is starting to come back to life again after some good floods. 



CanOz said:


> How's the kospi trading going?




It's still paying the bills 
I tend to only trade the first 2-3 hours as they're historically when I pick up the best swings...although it's a bit flat again this morning.
It's 36.5 degrees here now (11am) so I think I'll go for another swim after lunch!

(edit: actually it's 38 degrees here at 11am...yuck!)


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## prawn_86 (29 November 2012)

I grew up in the Riverland CB. I actually miss the days over 40, havent had a 'proper' summer for years since living in both Syd and Melbs


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## captain black (29 November 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> I grew up in the Riverland CB. I actually miss the days over 40, havent had a 'proper' summer for years since living in both Syd and Melbs




I grew up in Loxton, spent 7 years on the Sunshine Coast but missed this place too much and came back, never regretted it. It looks like we've got one of those proper summers shaping up this year after a couple of wetter ones. The Kospi has finally moved so I've picked up my wages for the day  My lab is looking too comfortable under the air con so it might be time to pull stumps on the Kospi and head down the sandbar at Rilli Reserve 

We're still sitting on 38 degrees (just to keep the thread on topic  )


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## prawn_86 (29 November 2012)

I used to play footy against Loxton back in my premiership winning junior days.

I like the Riverland but think it is just the nostalgia factor as i am bored after a weekend back there :

Heating up here in Melbs, currently 35


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## captain black (29 November 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> I like the Riverland but think it is just the nostalgia factor as i am bored after a weekend back there :




heh, yeah, each to his own, it completely baffles me why anyone would want to live in a city...
I trade the Kospi so I don't get bored easily.. 



prawn_86 said:


> Heating up here in Melbs, currently 35




We've hit 41 now, Renmark is just over 42. Looks like we'll nudge that 44 they've predicted.


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## captain black (29 November 2012)

It doesn't look like we'll be going down the river this arvo. Basil, (my labrador), just came outside with me while I watered my vegie seedlings and took about 10 seconds to turn around, come back inside and lay down under the air con again 

It's just a smidge under 42 here. 

Kospi still sideways. Got short at 254.9 an hour ago but stopped out at breakeven. Short again at 255 with stop now to breakeven. Not much conviction either way at the moment but just taking signals when they happen, getting the stop to BE and letting it go..... am I still on topic


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## captain black (29 November 2012)

Kospi flipped at 255, stop at BE now.... looking shaky..poised to flip again...reminds me why I don't normally trade the arvo. Too hot to do much else though!

Temperature here has hit 43, Renmark nudging 46.

Vegie garden looking very sad.

Basil still under the air con. Think I might join him if the Kospi doesn't break on this move....


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## Knobby22 (29 November 2012)

Looked it up. Record for Renmark is 48 which occurred 9th February 2009.
That would kill you pretty quick.


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## prawn_86 (29 November 2012)

Knobby22 said:


> Looked it up. Record for Renmark is 48 which occurred 9th February 2009.
> That would kill you pretty quick.




I have been out on days where if you throw and old style thermometer on the sand in direct sunlight, it would crack/burst from the heat.

We used to know it was a hot day in the Riverland when the tar starts bubbling out of the road


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## captain black (29 November 2012)

Knobby22 said:


> Looked it up. Record for Renmark is 48 which occurred 9th February 2009.
> That would kill you pretty quick.




Yeh, we had a 47 here that day (although my records show it as the 7th Feb?). We wont get there today but it's been pretty awful anyway, my poor old vegie garden is under shadecloth this time of year but I think I should have picked my rhubarb a few days ago, it wasn't looking well about an hour ago


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## captain black (29 November 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> We used to know it was a hot day in the Riverland when the tar starts bubbling out of the road






Then there were the days as a kid we'd be cutting apricots and a fresh lot of fruit was bought into the shed and the dip-tins were that hot they'd burn your hands... not to mention the apricots that were like jam...


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## captain black (30 November 2012)

Knobby22 said:


> Record for Renmark is 48 which occurred 9th February 2009.




Renmark ended up with it's hottest November day on record yesterday, 45.3 degrees.

http://www.weatherzone.com.au/news/renmark-swelters-through-record-heat/22903


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## drsmith (14 January 2014)

Firefighters in South Australia face a nervous wait this evening.

Dry(ish) thunderstorms in conjunction with extreme temperatures are a very nasty combination.


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## Smurf1976 (14 January 2014)

It's certainly hot in SA. Adelaide hit 45 today, with the forecast for 45 again tomorrow and 46 on Thursday. That's seriously hot by any measure.

According to BOM data, highest temperatures by state today:

SA = 46
Vic = 45
Tas = 40

So very hot across 3 states. No records so far as I'm aware, but certainly very hot. Let's hope there's no fires.....


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## drsmith (14 January 2014)

Keith in SA's Southeast got to 47. 

An unusual location to record the state's highest daily temp, but that's the nature of this heatwave. It's hotter in the south of the state than it is in the north.


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## Ijustnewit (14 January 2014)

Smurf1976 said:


> It's certainly hot in SA. Adelaide hit 45 today, with the forecast for 45 again tomorrow and 46 on Thursday. That's seriously hot by any measure.
> 
> According to BOM data, highest temperatures by state today:
> 
> ...




Strahan Tassie West Coast new record today 38 degrees , records also set at Mount  Read (Tas ) 30.4 c and Scotts Peak (Tas) 38.4 c . Also bitumen has melted on parts of the Midlands Highway . :1zhelp:
Report below from WZ
www.weatherzone.com.au/news/records-tumble-as-mercury-rises-in-tasmania/26407


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## Tink (15 January 2014)

Yes, very hot in the south.

Melbourne was 45 yesterday, and you forget how hot that really is until it comes around. We are supposed to have the same for the rest of the week, the worst day being on Friday.

Those tennis players at the Australian Open are getting the real extent of an Australian Summer.


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## Smurf1976 (16 January 2014)

Power supply was seriously stretched in Vic & SA today and will be again tomorrow.

I'm not going to say there will be blackouts, but I sure wouldn't be willing to bet that there won't be problems that's for sure. There's a huge load on the system in both states and very little spare generating capacity available if something goes wrong (eg breakdown at a power station).

A 200MW generating unit in SA that was out of service today has now been fixed and is running. That's the good news. But the increase in load tomorrow compared to today is expected to be considerably more than 200 MW - that's the bad news. Meanwhile a 550 MW unit in Vic remains out of service. 

The 240 MW Playford B power station (SA) being closed (well, it's officially mothballed not closed as such, but it's the same thing in practice in terms of power supply tomorrow) obviously isn't helping either.

Forecast load in Vic tomorrow = 10,392 MW versus 9,867 MW available generation. In SA it's 3,207 demand versus 3,307 supply now that the 200 MW unit is back in service. That compares to around 1400 MW load on a mild day in SA and around 6000 MW in Vic. So it's a huge increase in demand on the system.

So Vic (and SA if even the slightest problem occurs) is dependent on supply from NSW and Tas to keep the lights (or more to the point, air-conditioners) on. There's enough, just, provided that nothing breaks down. But if a big generating unit breaks down in Vic or SA, or something goes wrong with transmission and cuts off supply from NSW or Tas then there's basically nothing available to cover such a loss. 

NSW and Tas both have sufficient capacity up and running to maintain supply into Vic to the limit of the transmission lines. But the transmission limit is the issue - putting an extra unit or three online in Tas wouldn't help since we can't send any more to Vic than is already being done. Same with NSW (and indirectly Qld which is electrically connected to NSW and which also has spare capacity available).


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## drsmith (16 January 2014)

Smurf1976 said:


> Power supply was seriously stretched in Vic & SA today and will be again tomorrow.



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-...th-east-australia-sizzles-in-heatwave/5200424

Solar panels I assume would help to some extent, but obviously not enough.


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## sptrawler (16 January 2014)

drsmith said:


> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-...th-east-australia-sizzles-in-heatwave/5200424
> 
> Solar panels I assume would help to some extent, but obviously not enough.




I should have posed the question on this thread.
What would have happened if Labor had bought Hazelwood Power Station and closed it down, due to its carbon emmissions?


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## drsmith (16 January 2014)

Adelaide will likely top out at 44 or 45 today. 

Still scorching hot but the record of 46.1 is unlikely to be broken.


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## noco (16 January 2014)

Beautiful up here in Townsville....we have not even had the air conditioner on for the past two nights.

This is the place to be.


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## Smurf1976 (16 January 2014)

sptrawler said:


> I should have posed the question on this thread.
> What would have happened if Labor had bought Hazelwood Power Station and closed it down, due to its carbon emmissions?




Blackouts for sure. No question about it.

Hazelwood has actually been the hardest running power station in Vic during the heatwave in terms of actual production versus its' design capability. 

Whilst Loy Yang A is bigger (2200 MW) and today has produced more power (around 1850 MW most of the time), it has capacity loss due to technical problems whereas Hazelwood is actually running significantly above it's design limit, pushing out over 1700 MW at times (versus its' original design limit of 1600 MW). So Hazelwood was the number 1 source of electricity in Vic yesterday and is running a close second today.

Sure, it's old and not as efficient as a modern plant but it's working extremely well at the moment that is undeniable. And without it, the lights would have gone out - no ifs, buts or maybes there.

Most of the gas-fired plants in Vic have significant capacity loss due to the heat and it's much the same in SA with a couple of exceptions. Meanwhile Hazelwood has simply kept going.

Overall, load today was slightly higher than yesterday but the system coped due to the 200MW unit at Torrens Island (Adelaide metro area) being back fully operational. The 550 MW unit at Loy Yang (Vic) which was out of service also was restarted today but with a reduced capacity of 350 MW (not sure exactly why but presumably they still have some problems with it). Also the very old (opened 1958) plant at Morwell (Vic) which hasn't been operating much for the past 18 months put about 44 MW into the system this afternoon (it has a peak capacity of 190 MW). Also generation from wind was higher today than yesterday as well. Put all that together and the system coped fairly easily.

Load tomorrow looks to be about the same in Vic and slightly lower in SA. There's still no guarantees about system reliability however since it's still a very high demand and could become a problem if anything goes wrong.

Tomorrow - Melbourne 44, Adelaide 42, Canberra 41, Hobart 38 so still very hot and the heat has spread further too (Hobart's maximum today was only 22).


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## Ferret (16 January 2014)

sptrawler said:


> I should have posed the question on this thread.
> What would have happened if Labor ...




Really?  This is a weather thread.  Do we need to make it about politics?  ASF has too many of those already.


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## Smurf1976 (16 January 2014)

Ferret said:


> Really?  This is a weather thread.  Do we need to make it about politics?  ASF has too many of those already.




It could be interpreted in two possible ways.

1. Effect on the temperature due to CO2 emissions etc. That is very clearly a political point.

2. Technical question about electricity supply during the heatwave if the power station being referred to had not being operating today. I see that as an engineering question, albeit one prompted by a political policy.

I've answered the question from an engineering perspective and ignored the political aspect of it. In doing so I note that power supply is one of the significant potential issues associated with the current weather, since there is a credible threat and it did come uncomfortably close on Wednesday. The other more serious issues are obviously things like fires, people having medical problems and so on but losing the power supply wouldn't be helpful that's for sure.


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## Knobby22 (17 January 2014)

Prawn from the riverland will probably be enjoying this heat, but I have had enough.
It saps your energy. At least it is the last day of it.
As for the poor tennis players...


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## Smurf1976 (17 January 2014)

Knobby22 said:


> As for the poor tennis players...



I thought there was a roof there that could be closed and also air-conditioning? If so, why on earth wouldn't they just close the damn thing and keep the heat out? 

Or am I thinking of the wrong place?


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## bellenuit (17 January 2014)

Smurf1976 said:


> I thought there was a roof there that could be closed and also air-conditioning? If so, why on earth wouldn't they just close the damn thing and keep the heat out?
> 
> Or am I thinking of the wrong place?




I think there are at least two with retractable roofs there. From what I understand, the reason they are kept open is that the Australian Open is classified as a open air tournament which some players are better suited to, so they want to maintain their advantage. They are only closed on very hot days when it is deemed to be to unsafe, something that has not yet been reached in the opinion of officials.


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## sydboy007 (17 January 2014)

bellenuit said:


> I think there are at least two with retractable roofs there. From what I understand, the reason they are kept open is that the Australian Open is classified as a open air tournament which some players are better suited to, so they want to maintain their advantage. They are only closed on very hot days when it is deemed to be to unsafe, something that has not yet been reached in the opinion of officials.




I'm thinking the officials should have to do 20 minute exercise sessions in the heat.  If any pass out / die then that could be the criteria that it's unsafe to play.

Could give them a new perspective on forcing players to run around in 40+ heat.  Ridiculous.  Just walking in that heat is bad enough.  I'd even be reluctant to laze around on the beach in those temperatures.

If they keep this up I can see many of the top players boycotting the tournament.


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## Smurf1976 (17 January 2014)

I'd think that it's commonsense that 44 degrees is rather hot and is extreme by most measures.

I suspect that, if asked, the tennis players themselves would be more than happy to have the roof closed and the air-conditioning turned on. Whilst it might help their opponent, it would also help them too. And I'd think that those sitting there watching them play would also be glad to not be passing out etc.

I see it as an issue of safety. You have a major sporting event open for the public to come and watch. A very large number of specators and some players have had medical issues due to the heat. To me, that's more than sufficient evidence that they ought to do something to avoid this problem. And since they have a roof and a means of cooling the place already there, it seems crazy to not be using them.

Anyway, off the subject of tennis it seems that the power supply has coped with the heatwave. It came very close to blackouts on Wednesday but, with the exception of a few isolated transmission problems cutting off individual towns etc, the system as a whole worked better than anyone really expected it to on Thursday and Friday.

It seems that the trains in Melbourne had a lot of problems however, at least they did judging by media reports. Without being too critical, I really don't see why they can't get them to run reliably. Trains aren't exactly a new technology, and the need for expansion joints has been understood for a very long time.

Fires - It's mostly cloudy but what sun there is has turned orange in Hobart at the moment. Not sure where the smoke is coming from, but something's obviously on fire.


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## sydboy007 (18 January 2014)

Smurf1976 said:


> It seems that the trains in Melbourne had a lot of problems however, at least they did judging by media reports. Without being too critical, I really don't see why they can't get them to run reliably. Trains aren't exactly a new technology, and the need for expansion joints has been understood for a very long time.




I do wonder what's wrong with state Governments and reliable transport.  I nearly sipped my coffee the wrong way when I read the Japanese Shinkansen had an average delay of 36 seconds in 2012, which they were quite sorry for.  Massive increase from 1997 when the average was only 18 seconds.  This included any delays due to natural disasters.  Maybe we need to get some JR or SMRT straff over for a while to help sort out our problems 

Good to see the electricity network has been doing it's job.  How many more new aircon installs can it cope with before that's no longer the case?


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