# Financial Plan - Creating my own



## brettc4 (10 April 2008)

Hi All,

I am interested in creating my own financial plan,
Can anyone direct me to some online reources that has details regarding what should be in a plan and/or examples of a financial plan.

Thanks,
Brett


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## tech/a (10 April 2008)

As in budget?
Or as in future goals etc.
Or how to best balance your current financial positon
ie manage your millions.


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## Whiskers (10 April 2008)

brettc4 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am interested in creating my own financial plan,
> Can anyone direct me to some online reources that has details regarding what should be in a plan and/or examples of a financial plan.
> ...




I don't know what experience or qualifications you have, but a little document _'Getting the best advice' _ at http://www.fpa.asn.au/FPA_Content.aspx?Doc_id=1036  is a basic start.

Check around the links under; *More on this topic*

Financial planning
Find a Planner
goodadvice.com.au
Publications
Careers information
Lodge a complaint
Useful links
Glossary
Contact us


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## Plasmo (10 April 2008)

Just save $500,000, then put it all on Black.


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## brettc4 (10 April 2008)

What I am after is effectively what a Financial Planner would provide interms of goals, risk management, issurance coverage, wealth creation.

I just don't want to have to go to a Financial planner to get one.

I already have a rather detailed budget so I know where all of my cash is currently going. I am more interested in try to document and work out how to achieve some goals and also ensure my finances are structured appropriately.

Cheers,
Brett


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## Tom Ronalds (10 April 2008)

brettc4 said:


> What I am after is effectively what a Financial Planner would provide interms of goals, risk management, issurance coverage, wealth creation.
> 
> I just don't want to have to go to a Financial planner to get one.
> 
> ...




This is a bit like saying: "I already know how far it is to travel to work, but I don't want to go to a car yard to get a car - I'd rather build one myself."

The construction of a good financial plan requires not only the knowledge of your budget and goals - in fact, any decent financial planner would not proceed with giving you advice without requiring you to clarify those as well as several other factors first.

A good working knowledge of current legislation with regards to tax, superannuation and even risk is required, as well as some decent modelling software. Finally, it may be appropriate to look at some investments/insurance products, and for those you will need to know what's out there in the market place and which one of those would be the best for your circumstances & budget.

It would be to your benefit to talk to a good financial planner so as to get an idea of the process at least. Do look for one that charges on a straight fee-for-service basis and preferably is not associated with a major product provider (AMP/banks etc). 

Do read their Financial Services Guide - which s/he is obliged to provide to you by law and look out for any conflicts of interest in their charging model/product selection. If anything there is not quite satisfactory, do not do business with them.

A good FP would do a first appointment at a low cost (under $200) and that should provide a good orientation session for you & assist you if you then decide to do your own plan. Do be aware though that top financial planners have studied the relevant areas for many years and also have plenty of experience. Despite the stated opinions of some of the local investment gurus, they are generally worth the money they charge and will provide a plan to you with no further obligations, if you choose to imprement it yourself.

To assume you will obtain the same result in preparing a good plan for yourself just by asking around at an Internet forum and by perhaps reading a bit of stuff is very unrealistic.

Cheers.

Tom R


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## brettc4 (11 April 2008)

Hi Tom,

I realise that there are a number of good Financial Planners. The problem is there are also a number of really crap financial planners that are interested only in selling products for ongoing comissions, and not looking out for my best interests, I on the other hand, am looking out for my best interests.

I do not want to be sold products, I want a well balanced plan.

In fact I started a course on financial planning through the Securities Institute (didn't get up to the building of plans houwever) but became very disallusioned when they were talking about simply sending the client from one person to look at investment products, another for taxation purposes, another for estate planning, another for insurance.  I realise a person may not be able to know it all, but it smelt like a boys club, I'll scratch your back, you scratch mine and will all get fat of other peoples money. There is now way to know that everyone in the line is actually on the level.

Probably my biggest beef with a planner though, is that they recommend certain solutions but then take none of the responsibilty for those recommendations. If things go south, the planner can hide behind a piece a paper, so in order to make an informed decision and mitigate risk, I need to do my own research as well because you simple cannot rely on the planner.  

Hence why I want to do my own.  As per your analogy, If I had as little confidence is buying a car as I do in engaging a financial planner, then yes I would prefer building one.  I still see the planning industry as a poorly run, poorly governed grab for cash and the financial planning industry needs to do a lot of work to change that image in my mind.

Brett


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## Temjin (12 April 2008)

brettc4 said:


> Hi Tom,
> 
> I realise that there are a number of good Financial Planners. The problem is there are also a number of really crap financial planners that are interested only in selling products for ongoing comissions, and not looking out for my best interests, I on the other hand, am looking out for my best interests.
> 
> I do not want to be sold products, I want a well balanced plan.




That is why Tom told you to stay well away from commission only FPS such as those in the banks. Go for fee for service only, and find those that rebate every single commissions they get back to you and have an extensive number of products to offer. (or those with unlimited choice) 



> Probably my biggest beef with a planner though, is that they recommend certain solutions but then take none of the responsibilty for those recommendations. If things go south, the planner can hide behind a piece a paper, so in order to make an informed decision and mitigate risk, I need to do my own research as well because you simple cannot rely on the planner.




The problem is that if every single financial planners in the world are to be held responsible for clients' loses in their investment due to adverse economic trend and market changes, which is outside their control, then there wouldn't be anyone doing the job. Does that make sense to you? 

No one in the world would ever give you advise on what to invest in and also GUARANTEE you that they will make money. Black Swan events do happen and you simply cannot blame anyone for your losses. 

The best a planner can do is to explain the risk to you and what to expect on the future based on the research materials / knowledge that they currently possess. If you are looking for the "guaranteed get rich" path, how to select the best stocks, how to trade, etc, etc, then like I said before, the only person who can help you IS YOURSELF. 



> Hence why I want to do my own.  As per your analogy, If I had as little confidence is buying a car as I do in engaging a financial planner, then yes I would prefer building one.  I still see the planning industry as a poorly run, poorly governed grab for cash and the financial planning industry needs to do a lot of work to change that image in my mind.




Then you should do your own investment if you feel you have the knowledge and experience to do so. However, remember that "investment" is only part of your whole financial plan. You also need to think about insurance, taxation, retirement needs, etc. 

I can't blame you for your biases against the financial planners. There are certainely really bad ones out there who are only looking to sell high commission products for themselve with little regards to their clients' well being. It's hardly surprising that they are making a bad name for the entire industry.  

Like I said, you should try looking for FEE FOR SERVICE only planners who rebate ALL commissions back to you and have "almost" unlimited choice in what investments they can advise to you.


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## tech/a (12 April 2008)

Brett.

I do hear you.
Unfortunately I too have strong views in not supporting F/Ps.
But without knocking them I can sympathise with them on many levels as a few are good friends. With litigation the way it is they are open to all sorts of nut cases who want to shift all the responsibility of waelth creation to F/Ps and accountants. 

But from a purely pragmatic view.

I only know of 3 way to create truly outstanding wealth.
All require *Entrepreneurial Innovation*---in other words to really excel you need to stand out from all those involved in the big three with something/s out of the box.

(1) Work for yourself (And I don't mean the deli type of business that supplies a wage)
(2) Invest in Property (And I don't mean simply buy and hold or buy and flip).
(3) Invest in the Stock market (And I don't mean buy and hold/invest)

Most come to F/Ps and Accountants AFTER they have made or are in the process of accumulating excess funds.
I don't know of anyone with true wealth who has come by it through F/P or Accountant advice and implementation.---Do you?
Does anyone---and if so what did they do and what was the advice?

I had an FP tell me once to place $60K a year in Super---hell If I couldn't make more out of my 60K than super I wouldn't have the spare $60k a year in the first place!---That's NOT what we want to hear---but that's pretty well the safest thing they can tell us. Not to mention the best earn!

They have their place.I'm seeking advice on some property dealings now.

But as for creating the wealth in the first place that's up to you.
As Dick Smith once said "Find something that works and copy copy copy".

Mentors and even discussions with people who are where I want to be in lots of aspects of life have been my source of knowledge.
Pretty well all of them have said this.
"Unless your just out of your comfort zone your not really trying."

That doesn't mean being a maverick---more so quantified risk and NOT following the crowd---The crowd aren't very good at it!


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## Timmy (12 April 2008)

Brett - just make sure there is a component in your plan to remove money from your account regardless of whether the plan actually increase the value of your investment or not.  And to keep removing money regardless of how useless the advice to yourself is.


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## SM Junkie (12 April 2008)

I've seen a previous thread get hyjacked and turned into a debate about the pro's and con's of using financial planners.  I'd would hate to see that happen here, but rather see people share their own wisdom and resources about alternatives to financial planners, such as Tech/A and Whiskers responses.

I'm currently working my way through Robert Kiyosaki's "Who Took My Money". He makes some interesting points such as diversification and investing for the long term is often not the best investment advice (which is often the advice touted by FP's).  RK advocates integrating between asset classes.  

What I'm really getting from this read is to take control of my own financial future, which I guess is what your looking to do Brett.  I've been pulling ideas out of his book to help me develop my own plan.  My ultimate goal is to have my money making money (its not a dollars amount), now I'm working out the steps I need to get there and the most important step being about my own financial intelligence and education.

Good luck with your plan and I look forward to reading more responses on this subject.


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## adobee (12 April 2008)

To be honest I think that the fact you ask where to get a financial plan.. but say you have the knowledge means you should talk to a financial planner.. if you a prone to financial planners I suggest talking to a cpa..  Even if you dont buy any products you can pay someone to give you some advise on structuring your investments the way to hold them sell them and what investments to look at to maximise your current position .. My tip with investment money you cant afford to loose buy apartments in small walk up red brick style apartment complex close to sydneys eastern beaches.. with money you can afford to loose buy shares.. with money you have any dont care about buy spec shares..


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## awg (12 April 2008)

Hi Brett,
              I went through a similar exercise to yourself.

It is possible to devise a plan for yourself, but you do need to have a fair knowledge of relevant areas ie tax, investment, super.

Most of the information is available to non professionals, but you need lots of time to research and absorb it.

One reason the Investment Advice area has specialists is the complexity.

Errors in tax planning can be very costly

Many CPA are not licenced to give investment advice!

It is possible to get an obligation free plan prepared by some advisers, although most charge for a written report, fair enough to, it takes a few hours to prepare.

It is a good exercise to prepare a thourough written plan anyway, take it to the fin adviser and say "this is what I was thinking"...it makes their job better.

You should know as much about your finances as time and inclination allow.

If you were to pay a pro for all the hours you can put into managing YOUR money that would cost a considerable amount

To manage them yourself is a good aim. Takes time to learn and do, like any skill

Ask yourself  "Can I manage competently now"

regards tony


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## tech/a (12 April 2008)

I may be wrong but I dont think Brett is looking for someone to manage his millions.
He's looking for direction and infact a step by step plan of how he is going to get in the position where he wants someone to manage his millions---which by then he will have realsied that he is eminently qualified.

So lets say Brett is a well payed employee.
His question is then (I presume) how do I do better.

My answer is 
Leverage and
Compound.

How do I do that?
Business--- there are many opportunities even part time.
Trading---could also be your part time business.
Property---there are many ways less now than 10 yrs ago BUT there will be times when various starategies in Leverage and Compounding in different aspects of property will be paramount.

The setup and the protection of profits is more the job of CPA's and F/Ps than the actual how to do it---in my view.


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## brettc4 (13 April 2008)

Thanks for the replies everyone. Interesting reading. Some points I agree with some I do not, but that may simply be a misunderstanding or lack of knowledge on my part.

But Tech/A was right in the end, I an a paid employee, how well is a different topic.  Early 30s, 1 small child and a fully paid off house, with some invetment in shares, and am looking to create wealth to hopefully ensure my financial freedom.

While creating that financial freedom, I also need to ensure that they way I do this is legal, takes advantage of the tax system. Also does it in a way that my family is protected if something goes wrong, say like me dying.

It is good to see that others have attempted/done this, and that some of you seek specific advise for specific areas of your financial health.

For those of you in the wealth accumulation stage:
1) Did you seek advice from a financial planner before beginning?

if No

2) Did you create your own plan. and if so, how detailed was it and what did you cover.

if you did see a FP

3) How valuable/accurate was the advice

Cheers,
Brett


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## tech/a (13 April 2008)

Brett

Lets look at this logically.

For a person in your position other than Super and Managed funds,what else would you expect an F/P to come up with?

A short term trading strategy?
A property strategy? (Mind you if he does run!--- There's 100% chance there will be a third party involved).
A Business Idea?

Leveraging you house equity into any one or some of these?

I have one rule

If I cant control it --- ie the placement of my funds are in MY Developements,Trading,Business, *if a third party is involved then-I wont do it*.
If I did someone else is controlling my funds and if they go broke I lose my capital. 

Go and have a chat with a couple and see what you think.
4 yrs ago I saw 3 investing $1000 with 2 and $600 with the other.

*MY own* experience was dismal.All came highly recommended,not one came up with anything which would have boosted my wealth.

Anyone had a good experience anyone given even one snippet which significantly altered their direction and financial standing?
Care to tell us what that was?
ANYONE?


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## Pager (13 April 2008)

At the end of the day the only person who really cares about your savings/investments/super etc is you, no matter how good a financial planner is his/her only risk is losing you as a client, your the one with the money on the line.

Look at a financial plan exactly the same way as a business plan, IMO they are basicly the same thing.


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## Trembling Hand (13 April 2008)

tech/a said:


> The setup and the protection of profits is more the job of CPA's and F/Ps than the actual how to do it.




That is the bottom line here. CPA's and F/Ps are simply a tool to help with the problem that you need to solve. They are not the the answer to the problem. Not by a long shot.


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## Gunlom (13 April 2008)

Brettc

I'm in a quite a similar position to yourself, 30, young family, average income, and in wealth accumulation stage. Although I have done quite well off investments since I was 20, in property, I'm really looking to take the next step in Investment knowledge.

So how do I go about this..

my golden rules are....

         *    the more people between me and my asset the less money I make.

         *    I take all advice with a 'grain of salt' . However I take snippets of         knowledge from everyone and use them for myself. 

         *    Nobody cares about your finances as much as you do 


I have been to financial planer, and was in some way disappointed about the products she was trying to flog to me. However I took her product idea's and after allot of thought worked out how I could do it myself, with about half the cost.

I have created a 10 year financial plan, for myself. Sticking to it can me the hardest part.

And before entering in any transaction, I come up with a plan of why I'm doing it, and the time frame for each investment. That way when market volatility hits I can keep referring to my plan, and avoid making snap or rushed decisions. I do modify the plan over time, but only with considered thought and research. 

I also do allot of research and reading, these forums are a great starting place,  and I have started blogging about my investments and philosophies to keep my thoughts coherent.

Controlling my emotions and impulses when it comes to investing is the greatest challenge to wealth creation I face. Once I can truly master this I will be ready for the next level.

Hope this helps out abit


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## Julia (13 April 2008)

tech/a said:


> I have one rule
> 
> If I cant control it --- ie the placement of my funds are in MY Developements,Trading,Business, *if a third party is involved then-I wont do it*.
> If I did someone else is controlling my funds and if they go broke I lose my capital.



Agree absolutely.  I won't use even managed funds for this reason.
You are allowing someone else to make decisions on your behalf.



> *MY own* experience was dismal.All came highly recommended,not one came up with anything which would have boosted my wealth.



I'm not surprised to hear that.  However, you have had many years of working out how to make money.  You have sought advice and mentoring from people who could help you in this.  You have found what works for you.

However, that's not to say that a younger, less experienced person will not benefit from some of the strategies they may not be aware of until a FP explains how they can be used.  Don't forget, too, that this is a stock forum.  Presumably most of the members have some financial nous.
It is quite unbelievable how financially ignorant a large proportion of the population are.  



> Anyone had a good experience anyone given even one snippet which significantly altered their direction and financial standing?



Yes.  One piece of strategy advice made a substantial difference and was something I'd not have come up with myself.


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## brettc4 (13 April 2008)

Gunlom, I am interested in the types of things you covered in your own plan. Are you willing to share any of these either publicly here, or as a private message? I am not interested if your specific plan, just the types of things covered.

Cheers, Brett


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## Young Gun (13 April 2008)

I work for a financial services company and i have done the dfp (diploma financial planning) and I can tell you one thing. If you are interested in going to a financial planner dont go to a brand named one. Ie - Any of the major "franchise planners", bank planners ect. 

The only advice you will get from these planners are to invest in financial produts such as managed funds and superannuation. Why ? 

As a planner they get kickbacks for recomending these products and it is a steady flow of remuneration for the planner. Virtually none of these franchise financial planners will tell you to invest in shares independtly or through direct property. Why ? 

It is difficult for the planner to tap into remuneration for his advice. Ie - You go to a planner he tells you to invest in a residential property, how is he going to get any remuneration from this ?  There are ways but franchise planners are not structured like this. 

Having said that there are good planners out there who will give you unbiased advice that stems further than just managed funds and salary sacraficing. 

Your best bet is to do some reasearch or get recomendations for people, word of mouth is probably the only way your going to find a good planner. Most good planners have a background in accounting or are small firms with a couple of people. Only take investment advice from a planner with a proven track record, someone who has been there and done that.


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## Gunlom (14 April 2008)

Sure here is a copy of my plan, but be aware that it is purely written for me by me, so some things may not make 100% sense, but I understand them.

I have this on my notice board in my office so I see it most days and look at it constantly. I also do small plan's with every individual investment (shares or property) so a long term investments doesn't become a short term one or visa-versa. I have also started to blog about my ideas, which further expands on what i'm doing. Feel free to look at it http://maazels.blogspot.com/


I have no training or qualifications to give anyone advice. 


10 Year Financial Plan
(July 2007)


-	By age 40 (2017) I will have a passive income of 100k
-	By early to mid 2010 I shall have paid of our family home.
-	To achieve this I will have;
   *	$2mil Property portfolio (50k refinance a year)
   *   	$1mil Share Portfolio (50k div yield)
- 	Take $50k from each to fund the Passive Income


Hi-growth Portfolio

-	10% savings each week, when it reaches 1k, transfer it into share trading account, and wait for opportunity’s
-	Leverage and High growth is primary focus ( about 70% of my funds )
-	Secure Blue Caps with good yield ( about 20% )
-	Speculative ( max 10% )
-	Average 1-3 years timeframe

Income Portfolio

-	My wife will look to buy high yielding good cash flow equities
-	Businesses with secure long term earnings
-	Pay out a large portion of EPS into DPS
-	Buy in the dips, long term view
-	Min 10 year timeframe

Property

-	Look to buy a property when I can put about 25% deposit in, 
-	Use current Properties to fund, new purchases
-	Multiple Income properties and development potential ones
-	Once our house is paid out, borrow 80% to buy Positive cash flow Investments
-	Be selective. 

Business

-	Around 35-36 (2012-2013) look to purchase / start a business
-	Increase Income streams
-	Look at online business or limited options trading strategy 
-	Do ample research and gain sufficient knowledge to run business


Investing Strategy

      1) income	
      2) leverage
      3) capital growth
-	Fast money, withdraw original capital when available then, reinvest 
-	Never invest in something I don’t fully understand 
-	Every Investment MUST have a individual risk assessment and plan written down
-	Continue to Invest my education


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## tech/a (14 April 2008)

What exactly does this mean?



> Only take investment advice from a planner with a proven track record, someone who has been there and done that.




Define THERE
and 
Define THAT


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## brettc4 (14 April 2008)

Thanks Gunlom.  An agreesive plan, but then again it is not use making a plan and tracking it if you know it is going to be easy to achieve.

Do you have any investment structures in place such as a discrentionary Trust, or is everything in either your or your wifes name.

Second question, your plan didn't include anything related to insurance, have you taken care of that elsewhere, or not at all?

Thanks for contributing and best wishes for your achieve your goals.

Cheers,
Brett


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## professor_frink (14 April 2008)

tech/a said:


> Anyone had a good experience anyone given even one snippet which significantly altered their direction and financial standing?
> Care to tell us what that was?
> ANYONE?




A close friend of mine and his missus have been to see a planner, and as far as I'm concerned are much better off for it. It wasn't so much that the planner was doing anything special- they could have done it all by themselves if they really wanted to. But they really didn't want to do it themselves- neither have much in the way of knowledge in this area, and they had no clue where to start. After lengthy discussions with them about where they were headed in life, he came up with a plan to get them there- they borrowed against the house to start them off in the sharemarket, organised a budget with them and consolidated their super. 

Nothing fancy, but they are immeasurably better off than if they had of sat back and done nothing, which is what they most likely would have done if I had of tried talking them into doing something themselves. Whilst I agree with the general idea of your post tech, there are quite a few people out there that just need someone to help them get going. Even if a person only ever generates an average return out of something that comes from a financial planner, it's a whole lot better than 0.


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## tech/a (14 April 2008)

PF
I agree.
there are many who cant even budget to exist--let alone save.
Never heard of (until now) an advisor who would even suggest borrowing against the family home to trade in the market.
Most (F/Ps) would see this as irresponsible advice, infact so would I if they had the level of in competence you mentioned

Not saying F/Ps don't have a place.
Just that I don't know of any which can plot you a path.
Only you can do that.


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## professor_frink (14 April 2008)

tech/a said:


> PF
> I agree.
> there are many who cant even budget to exist--let alone save.
> Never heard of (until now) an advisor who would even suggest borrowing against the family home to trade in the market.
> ...




Sorry should have phrased that a little better- they could do the budget themselves and could save money- it was more so the branching off into investing that they weren't confident doing themselves. What I was getting at with the budget comment was that after he had sat down and talked to them, he came up with an overall budget for them to stick to that incorporated the new investment loan.


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## Julia (14 April 2008)

tech/a said:


> there are many who cant even budget to exist--let alone save.



This is why in an earlier post I suggested that your own experience of not being helped by a FP was atypical, given your own situation.

As Frinky has just described, there are lots of 'ordinary people' out there who can be genuinely helped by a visit to a FP.

Something not a lot of people are aware of is that Centrelink employs financial planners.  Their advice is free.


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## tech/a (14 April 2008)

> Centrelink employs financial planners.




Well at least they have a job!

(only kidding couldnt resist).


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## awg (15 April 2008)

Risk, Tax, Super, asset management. 

If you look at the PDS of most financial plans, there are multiple pages
on RISK. 

I'm not sure that people study this carefully enough. The planner usually does not emphasise it much, too scary for the punters. Its in there to cover their backside.

I went through each type of risk, to see if my portfolio was vulnerable to severe blows. 

Use of leverage and interest rates need to take into account risk/return.
YOU need to make hard decisions, and get them mainly right.

Reputable FP will test your risk aversion.
It is a pretty lame assessment though.

If u design your own plan, does your plan accomodate changing circs..ie 20% SP fall & 2% rate rise?  All your situation?.. takes a lot of thought.

One recent plan I have on file, recommends 10% of portfolio each in Centro and Allco!

traps for the unwary... liquidity, catastrophic risk, black swans etc etc


Can you simulate the outcomes for various tax advantages?
Calculations need to be done.

I believe I have seen books that are written to assist those who wish to develop there own financial plan. ( there may even be an Idiots Guide)

Even though I have developed my own little scheme, I still need to consult sometimes with my accountant, FP, broker, ATO, like minded-friends and knowledgeable people on this site, and elsewhere, to keep fully up to speed.

If u r a one man band, it is very easy to make "mistakes"

When I was younger, I made some less than optimal investment decisions, through lack of knowledge and experience, that mean my nett worth is maybe 50% of what it could be if I had followed optimal strategies.

IMO depends a lot on inclination, time, asset base.

Havent touched on asset management skills!

regards tony


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## Young Gun (15 April 2008)

> What exactly does this mean?
> 
> 
> Quote:
> ...




Don't take advice regarding investing in any asset class unless your financial planner has invested in it himself because the chances are if he hasnt he wont be able to help you.


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## Viginti (15 April 2008)

professor_frink said:


> A close friend of mine and his missus have been to see a planner, and as far as I'm concerned are much better off for it. It wasn't so much that the planner was doing anything special- they could have done it all by themselves if they really wanted to. But they really didn't want to do it themselves.




Working in the FP industry I have often seen the analogy between planners and personal trainers - you don't need a personal trainer to exercise and get fit, but how many people have a PT?  People often need some assistance to break the "do nothing" inertia.


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## tech/a (15 April 2008)

Young Gun said:


> Don't take advice regarding investing in any asset class unless your financial planner has invested in it himself because the chances are if he hasnt he wont be able to help you.





Totally agree.

You'd have more chance finding a DODO bird.


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## brettc4 (15 April 2008)

Well I have started work on my plan, I am sure it will be an interesting excerise over a number of weeks/months and undoubtably, I will be review previous posts here and possibly making a few more with relation to specific elements.

Bring on Excel, there's a lot of calculations to be done.

Thanks all.
Brett


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