# Long Term Trading?



## Plutonic (17 January 2011)

I have no idea what I'm doing, this all confuses me so much.

Basically, I want to invest in companies for the long-term. Short-term investments seem less stable to me, plus seem to involve more work. I want to be able to invest in something and just sit back and let my money slowly increase over time. Is that even possible?

How do I find a good company to invest in long-term?


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## ROE (17 January 2011)

Plutonic said:


> I have no idea what I'm doing, this all confuses me so much.
> 
> Basically, I want to invest in companies for the long-term. Short-term investments seem less stable to me, plus seem to involve more work. I want to be able to invest in something and just sit back and let my money slowly increase over time. Is that even possible?
> 
> How do I find a good company to invest in long-term?




Only sure thing is term deposit, company price can go up and down and without much understanding it could be scary for you...

Invest in equity you got to have a mind set where you could lose money
but with proper research and careful planning you can reduce this risk and 
enhance your return.

so it requires some work, you cant just sit back and put money into stocks and hope it goes up over time...

start reading some good investment books and principles , once you understand that read paper source like AFR and Freebie site like the age business etc...

over time you collect a lot of knowledge and maybe after 5-10 years it will become fairly standard and easy ... you get to understand all the stock market jargon, you be able to spot when someone is spinning it or tell half truth story etc...

I cant see an easier road, all your hard work will be paid for from making good investments that generate high earning and dividend each year....


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## WaveSurfer (17 January 2011)

Try an index fund to start with Plutonic. You must contribute regular amounts each month (regardless of market conditions) for it to work. It's a long term plan too (20+ years).

I know a few people doing it and despite the GFC, they're doing ok.


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## So_Cynical (17 January 2011)

Plutonic said:


> I have no idea what I'm doing, this all confuses me so much.




Prob best if you come back when you have some idea and are not as confused.


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## Julia (17 January 2011)

Plutonic, go into the Beginners' Lounge and read through the multiple threads there.
See in particular a sticky thread by Sir Osisflover.

Read the daily financial press.  Absorb what is going on in the world at large.  All these factors will influence the profitability of most of the companies in the ASX.

Work through the education section on the ASX website:  www.asx.com.au.  These are simple, easy to understand modules which you can repeat if you don't 'get it' first time round.

Don't take a simplistic view and expect that you should be able to buy a dozen companies and they will automatically be safe and profitable investments.  You need to educate yourself and then learn how to make good choices.

There is a wealth of information on this site if you are prepared to take the trouble to read it.


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## Tysonboss1 (17 January 2011)

Plutonic said:


> I have no idea what I'm doing, this all confuses me so much.
> 
> Basically, I want to invest in companies for the long-term. Short-term investments seem less stable to me, plus seem to involve more work. I want to be able to invest in something and just sit back and let my money slowly increase over time. Is that even possible?
> 
> How do I find a good company to invest in long-term?




Dollar cost average into an all ordinaries index fund.


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## Tysonboss1 (17 January 2011)

WaveSurfer said:


> Try an index fund to start with Plutonic. You must contribute regular amounts each month (regardless of market conditions) for it to work. It's a long term plan too (20+ years).
> 
> I know a few people doing it and despite the GFC, they're doing ok.




Great advice,

Never increase your monthly contributions because the market appears to be booming, and never decrease because it has crashed.

Just every month spend less than you earn and contribute to an index fund.

The only time you should think of not doing this is if you intend on spending the time and effort to learn the art of investing, and put in the weeks and years of work.

Alot of people try and do smart things and fail to beat the market index funds.


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## Plutonic (18 January 2011)

Tysonboss1 said:


> Great advice,
> 
> Never increase your monthly contributions because the market appears to be booming, and never decrease because it has crashed.
> 
> ...




Where would I find an index fund? I've had a quick look but can't find much.


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## burglar (18 January 2011)

Plutonic said:


> Where would I find an index fund? I've had a quick look but can't find much.



This thread starts out well, I had to stop reading when it became unnecessarily complex.
Anyway, it's a good place to start, in my opinion.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14461&highlight=index+fund

ASX
http://www.asx.com.au/asx/research/companyInfo.do?by=asxCode&asxCode=STW


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## Plutonic (18 January 2011)

burglar said:


> This thread starts out well, I had to stop reading when it became unnecessarily complex.
> Anyway, it's a good place to start, in my opinion.
> 
> https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14461&highlight=index+fund




That's great, really helpful, thanks.

So, you invest in an index fund just like you would normal shares? I can't find a broker that lets you trade under $200 at a time. I'd like to be able to invest $50-$100 a week, is that possible?


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## KurwaJegoMac (18 January 2011)

Plutonic said:


> That's great, really helpful, thanks.
> 
> So, you invest in an index fund just like you would normal shares? I can't find a broker that lets you trade under $200 at a time. I'd like to be able to invest $50-$100 a week, is that possible?




Most brokers won't allow a parcel size less than $500. 

Either way, you wouldn't want to be making trades at around $200 because you'll be eaten alive by brokerage (meaning if you buy a $200 parcel you're already down 10%!)

That being said, you have a couple of options:

- Put your $50-100 of weekly savings into an interest bearing account until you have saved up $500 for the minimum parcel size.

- Use a product such as the ANZ OIA. It's like an online savings account except that it's linked to the ASX200 (essentially they invest your money in an index fund on your behalf). The benefit being that you can deposit smaller amounts of cash into the account and they only charge you a small percentage for brokerage (0.25% or something). So you can invest in an index fund that way.

From the website:



> As the first investment of its kind, the ANZ Online Investment Account offers some unique benefits:
> Convenience and control
> 
> An investment with 24/7 access. Using ANZ Internet Banking you can now manage and monitor your ANZ Online Investment Account any time.
> ...




Link to the product: http://www.anz.com/personal/investments-advice/products-services/online-investment-account/


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## Plutonic (18 January 2011)

KurwaJegoMac said:


> Most brokers won't allow a parcel size less than $500.
> 
> Either way, you wouldn't want to be making trades at around $200 because you'll be eaten alive by brokerage (meaning if you buy a $200 parcel you're already down 10%!)
> 
> ...




This whole thing reminds me so much of Superannuation, it's basically the same thing right?

I was planning on investing $200 tonight, so I should wait until I have $500?

The ANZ account seems great, but it doesn't feel right. I want to invest in the stock market and choose what I invest in. With ANZ do you just put money into your account and they invest it in whatever they choose for you?


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## Tysonboss1 (18 January 2011)

Plutonic said:


> That's great, really helpful, thanks.
> 
> So, you invest in an index fund just like you would normal shares? I can't find a broker that lets you trade under $200 at a time. I'd like to be able to invest $50-$100 a week, is that possible?




If you can find a low cost managed fund that allows you to make regular contributions it would probably work best.

the idea is to put a regular amount in on a fortnighlty or monthly basis, no matter what happens to the market.

If the market goes down, just feel comfortable that each contribution you make is buying a large piece of the pie.

you can invest in index funds therough all the major banks, collect some info on the different offerings and compare fees,


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## Plutonic (18 January 2011)

Tysonboss1 said:


> If you can find a low cost managed fund that allows you to make regular contributions it would probably work best.
> 
> the idea is to put a regular amount in on a fortnighlty or monthly basis, no matter what happens to the market.
> 
> If the market goes down, just feel comfortable that each contribution you make is buying a large piece of the pie.




I'll have to have a look, but does that mean I still shouldn't invest less than $500 at a time?

I would love to start one of the ANZ investing accounts, but after reading the ANZ website, you need to make a lump sum payment of $1000. I'm a full time students earning $300/week and saving for an international holiday in December. I don't think I could justify spending $1000 all at once like that haha.


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## Tysonboss1 (18 January 2011)

Plutonic said:


> The ANZ account seems great, but it doesn't feel right. I want to invest in the stock market and choose what I invest in. With ANZ do you just put money into your account and they invest it in whatever they choose for you?




Please do not kid yourself, you are not ready to invest on your own.

By dollarcost averaging into a cross section of the economy through an index fund you will over time earn a credible market return with safty and freedom from bother. The only reason you would attempt to invest on your own is if you believe you can beat the average market return over time. This is no easy feat and requires much knowledge, experiance and hours of practicle application, Many people try and end up doing worse.

There are 2 types of investor, "defensive" and "enterpriseing" you are not ready to be an enterprising investor. Stick to an index fund while you build your knowledge.

Buy the book "the intelligent investor" by benjiman graham, and read it before you think about investing on your own. 

With an asx 200 index fund you basically own shares in the top 200 companies, they are not choosing where to invest the money for you, they are just automatically buying weighted holdings in the top 200 companies.

With an all ordinaries index fund you are buying a holding in every listed share.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmz3ble5bqE


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## burglar (18 January 2011)

Plutonic said:


> That's great, really helpful, thanks.
> 
> So, you invest in an index fund just like you would normal shares? I can't find a broker that lets you trade under $200 at a time. I'd like to be able to invest $50-$100 a week, is that possible?




Yes, you invest in an index fund just like you would normal shares.

$50-$100 a week ... the brokerage will kill you! 
$1000 per Quarter is possible. 
$2000 Half Yearly is manageable.

Two ways to go.

1. Index Fund.
Save for a few weeks in a bank account. 
If it was me, I would withdraw Quarterly or Half Yearly. 
Reinvest the dividends, 
they compound and do all the hard work for you.

Learn more stuff as you wait.

2. Managed Fund
They have selected groups of companies in asset classes, 
you just buy units in an asset class (or two) .
They have conditions you need to meet. 
Again, you will need to save a lump sum to join.

Whether one or the other, 
you will need to save and you will need to learn.

I see you have managed quite some learning already.
Keep it up.


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## kermit345 (18 January 2011)

I know on Etrade you can buy managed funds, although not exactly sure what ones are available. However you sound like your after something that you can put money into over time in small amounts and let it go. People are talking about STW and index funds however for the small amount your investing, something like the Vanguard Australian Shares Index Fund would be a good idea. I think with vanguard you can even go direct with them through their website and it is relatively cheap (from memory) however that may be for a minimum investment of $5,000 which doesn't sound like its in your range.

Managed funds have codes just like the ASX stocks, the code for the vanguard fund is VAN0002AU if your interested, google it and see what you find out.

Unfortunately investing with a small start of less than $1,000 is pretty hard to achieve, as others have mentioned, maybe build up some cash in a normal cash account and at the same time research to find exactly what your after. Once you hit that $1,000 you'll be ready to invest and have a bit of knowledge about what your actually getting yourself into.


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## burglar (18 January 2011)

My typing is so slow, everyone beats me.
Sorry to repeat other posting but hey ... worth reading twice!


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## Plutonic (18 January 2011)

burglar said:


> Yes, you invest in an index fund just like you would normal shares.
> 
> $50-$100 a week ... the brokerage will kill you!
> $1000 per Quarter is possible.
> ...




So what about http://nakedfunds.com.au? It's the same as the ANZ account right? But the minimum investment is only $100. With managed funds should you only invest $500+ or is it okay to invest $100 per week?


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## motorway (18 January 2011)

Plutonic said:


> That's great, really helpful, thanks.
> 
> So, you invest in an index fund just like you would normal shares? I can't find a broker that lets you trade under $200 at a time. I'd like to be able to invest $50-$100 a week, is that possible?




http://www.vanguard.com.au/

These are the guys who started the whole Indexing phenomena.

They did not invent the concept
But pretty close.

For you

http://www.vanguard.com.au/personal_investors/investment/managed-funds-up-to-$500000/en/managed-funds-up-to-$500000_home.cfm

John Boggle is an indexing super star.

Have one of his books very worth while read to understand the why of INDEXING.

*Common Sense on Mutual Funds: New Imperatives for the Intelligent Investor.
*
Highly recommend.

Motorway


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## Tysonboss1 (18 January 2011)

Plutonic said:


> I'll have to have a look, but does that mean I still shouldn't invest less than $500 at a time?
> 
> I would love to start one of the ANZ investing accounts, but after reading the ANZ website, you need to make a lump sum payment of $1000. I'm a full time students earning $300/week and saving for an international holiday in December. I don't think I could justify spending $1000 all at once like that haha.




Your not spending it, your investing it. If you can't justify investing $1000 how can you justify going on a holiday.

I started investing when I was in grade 8 working a paper round and earning about $30 a week.

My golden rule is you should invest atleast 10% of you pay, so save a minimum of $30 / week after you get to $1000 open the account and make contributions of $30 / week.

As your earnings grow so will your contributions, when you earn $1000 / week invest $100, if you earn $5000 per week invest $500.

I save about 80% of my earnings.


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## burglar (18 January 2011)

Life is hard for a student.
You go to a bar, see a pretty girl.
You can't afford to buy her a drink.
What can you say ...
"Would you like a sip?"


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## Tysonboss1 (18 January 2011)

burglar said:


> Life is hard for a student.
> You go to a bar, see a pretty girl.
> You can't afford to buy her a drink.
> What can you say ...
> "Would you like a sip?"




Ha Ha,... The good girls don't care about money. I was lucky to find one.


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## Plutonic (18 January 2011)

Tysonboss1 said:


> Your not spending it, your investing it. If you can't justify investing $1000 how can you justify going on a holiday.
> 
> I started investing when I was in grade 8 working a paper round and earning about $30 a week.
> 
> ...




That's a good plan, 10% I can live with haha. So how about putting 10% of my earnings into a 6 or 12 month term deposit and then investing it all at the end of the term? Or would the interest be so minimal that it wouldn't matter much if it was in a term deposit or just saved normally?



burglar said:


> Life is hard for a student.
> You go to a bar, see a pretty girl.
> You can't afford to buy her a drink.
> What can you say ...
> "Would you like a sip?"




Haha, buying people drinks is way too expensive these days, I can barely even buy them for myself at $12 each.

Does anyone have any advice about http://nakedfunds.com.au? To my untrained eye they're the same thing as the ANZ Investment Account, only with a minimum starting balance of $100 rather than $1000. Is it okay to invest less than $500 at a time with a managed fund?


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## Tysonboss1 (18 January 2011)

Plutonic said:


> That's a good plan, 10% I can live with haha. So how about putting 10% of my earnings into a 6 or 12 month term deposit and then investing it all at the end of the term? Or would the interest be so minimal that it wouldn't matter much if it was in a term deposit or just saved normally?




For you I would recommend buying into a fund that allows you to make smaller contributions and invest fortnightly or monthly, this will mean the dollar cost averging is more effective.

once you have found some funds that allow this then compare fees, a fee of more than 1% of the capital is excessive when it comes to index funds ( because really they are not making any wise decisions, just robotically buying stock for you)

and just remember 10% is the minimum, you can save more if you like. the more you save at the beginning the better, because these are the dollars that have the longest time to compound.


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## Tysonboss1 (18 January 2011)

Plutonic said:


> Does anyone have any advice about http://nakedfunds.com.au? To my untrained eye they're the same thing as the ANZ Investment Account, only with a minimum starting balance of $100 rather than $1000. Is it okay to invest less than $500 at a time with a managed fund?




I had a quick look at naked funds (i am running short of time "dinner plans").

I don't think it is an index fund, Remember you want an index fund, this is where your money is invested accross a large cross section of the market robotically according to companies weighted averages.

It's not where a fund manager trys and picks whats hot for you.


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## Plutonic (18 January 2011)

Tysonboss1 said:


> For you I would recommend buying into a fund that allows you to make smaller contributions and invest fortnightly or monthly, this will mean the dollar cost averging is more effective.
> 
> once you have found some funds that allow this then compare fees, a fee of more than 1% of the capital is excessive when it comes to index funds ( because really they are not making any wise decisions, just robotically buying stock for you)
> 
> and just remember 10% is the minimum, you can save more if you like. the more you save at the beginning the better, because these are the dollars that have the longest time to compound.




Okay thanks, NakedFunds is the cheapest one I've seen so far. However the fees are:

NakedFunds Fee: 1.49% per annum
Fundhost Fee: 0.31% per annum

Edit: Ah okay, this is confusing. I didn't think the ANZ investment account was an index fund either, I thought they were both managed funds. Or are they the same thing? I thought and index fund was just a stock that you buy through a broker like ordinary stocks and managed funds were just accounts that you deposit money into and it's invested into the top companies for you.


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## Plutonic (18 January 2011)

Are there any other index funds similar to ANZ Online Investment Account, but with a lower buy-in cost, under $1000? 

ANZ is the only index fund I've seen that's set out on a website like that, all the others are just like normal stocks. Instead of going through a broker and buying stocks in an index like SPDR. I'd much prefer it like the ANZ account where you just transfer the money into your account and they do everything else. Or is ANZ the only one?


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## poverty (18 January 2011)

The ANZ account is definitely an index fund, when I was thinking about it I trawled thru all the fine print and they actually directly buy STW to invest your money.


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## kermit345 (18 January 2011)

Plutonic, to my knowledge the ANZ investment account isn't a fund, it is just an account that allows you to purchase any number of funds (I could be wrong here though so don't quote me).

I just checked the Vanguard website and unfortunately you can only invest in the Australian Shares Index Fund with a minimum of $5,000. However I also checked ANZ Etrade (www.etrade.com.au) and you are able to purchase managed funds through Etrade. Unfortunately I cannot find the minimum, however i'm sure if you gave them a call they will be able to tell you any minimum investment requirements etc.

Etrade charge 0.66% for managed funds that you hold and vanguard has an investment fee of 0.34% (from memory, work with these funds a lot through my job). Thats a total fee of 1.00% which is pretty good overall, you won't find anywhere much cheaper.

The only issue i can see with Etrade is you can't reinvest distribution payments, however if you just get it to your bank account and re-invest it yourself, it will serve the same purpose for your circumstances.

Don't mean to be shoving Etrade down your throat, its just I use them personally, they've served me well and I know their system pretty well so just putting it there as an option. Also means if further down the track you want to move into direct shares as well that opportunity is there for you.

If you want further help feel free to pm me, however sometimes its also a good idea just to give these places a call as well. Just don't let them put a sales pitch to you, gather the information your specifically after and try to avoid their sometimes pushy nature.


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## Plutonic (18 January 2011)

kermit345 said:


> Plutonic, to my knowledge the ANZ investment account isn't a fund, it is just an account that allows you to purchase any number of funds (I could be wrong here though so don't quote me).
> 
> I just checked the Vanguard website and unfortunately you can only invest in the Australian Shares Index Fund with a minimum of $5,000. However I also checked ANZ Etrade (www.etrade.com.au) and you are able to purchase managed funds through Etrade. Unfortunately I cannot find the minimum, however i'm sure if you gave them a call they will be able to tell you any minimum investment requirements etc.
> 
> ...




Etrade looks alright. But what's better, an index fund or a managed fund? Because it looks like managed funds have more risk.

Edit: I just found the minimum, it's also $1000. Sigh, it looks like I'll have to save. I'm just worried that by the time I have $1000 in cash I'll have second thoughts about putting it all into something at once.


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## kermit345 (18 January 2011)

I think you may have the terms slightly confused.

Managed funds can actually be index funds.

I.e. Vanguard Australian Shares Index Fund = A Managed Fund which is also an index fund.

STW = SPDR ASX/200 is an index fund, but traded as an exchange traded fund (a stock)

Managed funds come in many forms, an index fund is just one of these many forms.


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## Tysonboss1 (18 January 2011)

the term "managed fund" relates to a fund where a fund manager invests your money, there are all sorts of managed funds that invest in all sorts of assets classes.

the ANZ account sounds good, I have not looked into the fee structure though, So you might want to double check this aspect.

Some managed funds invest in index funds, others specialize in "growth" stocks, international stocks, emerging markets, income, bonds etc.etc

In my opinion an index fund is the best long term, Because you never know whether a manager using some other stratergy can actually come up with good results, and if he does beat the index funds his higher fees might mean your still lower, and if the fund is large enough to charge low fees it will probably mirror an index anyway, So I recommend ignoring the hype and just use a straight index fund.


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## Plutonic (18 January 2011)

Tysonboss1 said:


> the term "managed fund" relates to a fund where a fund manager invests your money, there are all sorts of managed funds that invest in all sorts of assets classes.
> 
> the ANZ account sounds good, I have not looked into the fee structure though, So you might want to double check this aspect.
> 
> ...




Okay and how do I do that? Just buy the index fund stocks through a broker or is there an easier way, can you link me to any index fund websites that I could sign up to?

Thanks.


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## Julia (18 January 2011)

Plutonic said:


> That's a good plan, 10% I can live with haha. So how about putting 10% of my earnings into a 6 or 12 month term deposit and then investing it all at the end of the term? Or would the interest be so minimal that it wouldn't matter much if it was in a term deposit or just saved normally?



Plutonic, you have asked multiple questions on this thread and have received many very helpful answers.

May I suggest it's now time to do some research of your own?  Surely you can work out whether the interest on a term deposit would make it worth the inaccessability of such an investment.

Hint:  there are many online cash at call accounts which are offering as much or more than term deposits, and your funds are at call.

You seem to be expecting people to answer your every query without being prepared to do some basic research of your own, and then make your own decisions.

Personally, I'd suggest saving in an at call online a/c until you have an amount that is actually worth investing.  Then choose a couple of decent stocks (which you have actually researched all by yourself) and make direct investments in these, thereby avoiding paying any management fees for managed funds.

Sooner or later you're going to have to make your own decisions.  And learn how to do your own research.


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## Plutonic (18 January 2011)

Julia said:


> Plutonic, you have asked multiple questions on this thread and have received many very helpful answers.
> 
> May I suggest it's now time to do some research of your own?  Surely you can work out whether the interest on a term deposit would make it worth the inaccessability of such an investment.
> 
> ...




Learn how to do my own research? Then what the hell is this? It's research. Reading information on a blog or in a book is no different than reading it here (perhaps with a little less condescension maybe). Reading it in a book is just reading what someone else has learned and written, just like reading it here. So how exactly do you define 'doing your own research'?

Thanks for the information you did give me though, I was planning on doing something similar, as it was what others had already suggested.


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## skc (18 January 2011)

Plutonic said:


> Learn how to do my own research? Then what the hell is this? It's research. Reading information on a blog or in a book is no different than reading it here (perhaps with a little less condescension maybe). Reading it in a book is just reading what someone else has learned and written, just like reading it here. So how exactly do you define 'doing your own research'?
> 
> Thanks for the information you did give me though, I was planning on doing something similar, as it was what others had already suggested.




Defintion of research
For people born before the 90s = find things yourself from credible, firsthand sources
For people born after the 90s = ask and ask and ask on an internet forum


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## Julia (18 January 2011)

skc said:


> Defintion of research
> For people born before the 90s = find things yourself from credible, firsthand sources
> For people born after the 90s = ask and ask and ask on an internet forum



Ah, so that's it.  Thanks, skc.
What a brave new world.


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## tothemax6 (18 January 2011)

Plutonic said:


> Learn how to do my own research? Then what the hell is this? It's research. Reading information on a blog or in a book is no different than reading it here (perhaps with a little less condescension maybe). Reading it in a book is just reading what someone else has learned and written, just like reading it here. So how exactly do you define 'doing your own research'?
> 
> Thanks for the information you did give me though, I was planning on doing something similar, as it was what others had already suggested.



In the hypothetical situation where I was a uni student wanting to get started in investing, and I were to say, only have $500:
I would save it in a savings account, contributing what funds I can comfortably spare week to week, until I have $1k. I would in the mean time be reading up. I would read Roger Montgomerys Valueable, so I know the basics of how companies are valued. When I reached $1k, I would then apply the knowledge I had acquired to invest the sum in one company I decided had the best prospects and a bargain share price. I would then see what happened to the share over say 6 months.
Ultimately my goal would be to increase my experience in investing so that when I had more money, I would be able to invest it more successfully than if I had no experience.
DYOR


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## kermit345 (19 January 2011)

Plutonic said:


> Okay and how do I do that? Just buy the index fund stocks through a broker or is there an easier way, can you link me to any index fund websites that I could sign up to?
> 
> Thanks.




This just pretty much re-hashed what you've said in numerous other posts. I've tried to explain managed funds and some ideas on what you could do 2-3 times and you've stuck to your guns anyway?

Have to agree with Julia, there comes a point where a number of people have tried to answer your question, and its best to the read further into it elsewhere before you start asking more.


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## Boggo (19 January 2011)

Plutonic said:


> Haha, buying people drinks is way too expensive these days, I can barely even buy them for myself at $12 each.




I would hold off on the fund investing and review what you are drinking or where you are drinking or both.
I can get two pints of Pale Ale for $12 at the local.

I have just read through this thread and all I can say is that I hope you are putting in a bit more effort and paying a bit more attention to what you are being told  as a student than what you are here otherwise I would be googling something along the lines of this if I were you...
http://www.wikihow.com/Wash-Dishes


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## burglar (19 January 2011)

Plutonic said:


> ... It's research. ...




It is research, better than reading a book. 
"Mr Book", I HAVE A QUESTION.  ....  Stoney silence!!

I have this problem many, many times - especially with Chess.

By asking here, though, you can make a similar problem.
Too many questions. ....  Stoney silence!!


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## burglar (19 January 2011)

When I was young, I learnt that most people will easily tolerate 3 questions.

So which questions are most important to you. 
Take some time to be succinct, to ellicit the quality answers you require. 

Chew over the responses. 
Now is a good time to interleave some reading.

Feedback is very important.
It not only shows appreciation, but also understanding.

In time, you can ask that person another 3 questions.

Best advice you ever get from a burglar.


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## Julia (19 January 2011)

Plutonic, just as an example of what you could be doing:  if you simply googled "compare savings accounts in Australia' you would come up with several options including
http://www.infochoice.com.au/   which allows you to enter your own criteria and then spits out the options.

Every day there are questions on this forum which would be more reasonably directed to the poster's bank or broker.   Usually people are kind enough to offer answers.
But why anyone would trust the opinions of anonymous posters on the internet in preference to an authoritative response from the company concerned is just beyond me.

Perhaps it's less a search for information and more a desire to feel connected or something.


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## burglar (19 January 2011)

Julia said:


> Perhaps it's less a search for information and more a desire to feel connected or something.




Hi Julia, 

Do you feel, as I do, that there is more to this, than a bewildered student with little money, who wishes to travel abroad?


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## Tysonboss1 (19 January 2011)

burglar said:


> Hi Julia,
> 
> Do you feel, as I do, that there is more to this, than a bewildered student with little money, who wishes to travel abroad?




  

what do you mean


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## Plutonic (19 January 2011)

Julia said:


> Perhaps it's less a search for information and more a desire to feel connected or something.






burglar said:


> Hi Julia,
> 
> Do you feel, as I do, that there is more to this, than a bewildered student with little money, who wishes to travel abroad?




You guys are reading way too much into this. It's more that I don't like mistakes. I like being in control of the situation. I want to get everything absolutely perfect and to know everything I possibly can before I get myself into something. Asking here was the easiest way that I could get the information that I needed. 

I surely wont make that mistake twice, although a few people on here were very helpful, the patronizing condescension and elitism towards beginners who want to know more than just the bare minimum, who want to get things right is bewildering.


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## burglar (19 January 2011)

Tysonboss1 said:


> what do you mean



Hi Tysonboss1,

You helped me a lot. 

Julia helped me a lot.

You helped Julia a lot.

Just asking Julia why she thinks there is more to this than meets the eye.


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## So_Cynical (19 January 2011)

Plutonic said:


> You guys are reading way too much into this. It's more that I don't like mistakes. I like being in control of the situation. I want to *get everything absolutely perfect* and to know everything I possibly can before I get myself into something.
> 
> I surely wont make that mistake twice.




If you eventually do end up with some money in the market you will undoubtedly make mistakes and you will absolutely (eventually) have to accept a loser or three....and you will almost never "get everything absolutely perfect" and the sooner you adjust to that reality the better.


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## tech/a (19 January 2011)

So_Cynical said:


> If you eventually do end up with some money in the market you will undoubtedly make mistakes and you will absolutely (eventually) have to accept a loser or three....and you will almost never "get everything absolutely perfect" and the sooner you adjust to that reality the better.




*So Cynical is absolutely right*.

Those who must "get everything perfect" are the same crowd who stick with losing trades until all funds run out.

See they were perfect when they got in and EVERYONE ELSE is wrong so the price WILL come back because I'm RIGHT!

See you Dont have to be right more than 50% of the time to be tremendously successful.
Winning trades to losing trades for me is around 2 losses to 1 win.
33% on average right.
With a capital growth of 48% since 1/10/10

So it depends what it is you want to get perfect!!

The Business or the Trade?


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## Tyler Durden (19 January 2011)

If you don't make mistakes, you don't learn


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