# Fiscal Cliff



## Garpal Gumnut (3 January 2013)

The US is still quite stuffed economically.

The agreement reached is just a mirage.

I thought the best assessment was from Steve LaTourette of Ohio.



> Steve LaTourette, a retiring GOP Representative from Ohio, dismissed the Senators who’d passed the bill as “sleep-deprived octogenarians.”




Anyone who bets the bank on a resurgence of world economic confidence on an Aged Care Facility decision made at 3am, after a game of Hoy, is in for a shock.

Oh, and then there is Europe.

And the Saudis are next for a bit of fundamentalist Muslim cold steel.

gg


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## explod (3 January 2013)

Another good thread gg.

Lost for words at the moment.

1966 rounds are getting scarce, glad I got mine early.


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## Uncle Festivus (3 January 2013)

A bit late there GG, should be Debt Ceiling Cliff now?? Can we have a Debt Ceiling Cliff countdown clock - only 8 weeks to go. Only 8 weeks of  will they or won't they & blame shifting all the while the debt balloon inflates ever so larger....austerity will be hard for Americans when the (forced by the market) time comes?


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## young-gun (3 January 2013)

explod said:


> Another good thread gg.
> 
> Lost for words at the moment.
> 
> 1966 rounds are getting scarce, glad I got mine early.




I only have around 50 Hopefully there is plenty left at the local bullion dealer when they re-open.



Uncle Festivus said:


> A bit late there GG, should be Debt Ceiling Cliff now?? Can we have a Debt Ceiling Cliff countdown clock - only 8 weeks to go. Only 8 weeks of  will they or won't they & blame shifting all the while the debt balloon inflates ever so larger....austerity will be hard for Americans when the (forced by the market) time comes?




I can't handle anymore of this BS coming out of the states. I can't wait for all this to come to an end so hopefully normality can eventually be restored and a more stable system in place.


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## matty77 (3 January 2013)

need to start thread:

"Sell everything 25th Feb 2013"

that is all.


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## Aussiejeff (3 January 2013)

Uncle Festivus said:


> A bit late there GG, should be Debt Ceiling Cliff now?? Can we have a Debt Ceiling Cliff countdown clock - only 8 weeks to go. Only 8 weeks of  will they or won't they & blame shifting all the while the debt balloon inflates ever so larger....austerity will be hard for Americans when the (forced by the market) time comes?




But, there will be another 11th hour agreement by another Super-duper Committee to reconvene in a further 2 months, and so on ad-nauseum for years....

With each bi-monthly Committee "agreement to solve the problem", the shock market will soar. Who cares if nothing is fixed. "Market sentiment" rulez, right?  

Trillionaires, place your bets......


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## Aussiejeff (3 January 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> The US is still quite stuffed economically.
> 
> The agreement reached is just a mirage.
> 
> ...




GG, I must take issue. We the cognisenti of ASF have diligently refrained for years from opening a thread with the *gasp* unmentionable term "F$$$$$ C$$$" therein.

Everyone was happy, with heads buried comfortably neath the sands of time. No unmentionable to bother us at all.

But now, you have unleashed the Unmentionable from it's stupor.

We shall all be poorer for it....

Slavishly yours,

aj


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## Garpal Gumnut (3 January 2013)

explod said:


> Another good thread gg.
> 
> Lost for words at the moment.
> 
> 1966 rounds are getting scarce, glad I got mine early.









Uncle Festivus said:


> A bit late there GG, should be Debt Ceiling Cliff now?? Can we have a Debt Ceiling Cliff countdown clock - only 8 weeks to go. Only 8 weeks of  will they or won't they & blame shifting all the while the debt balloon inflates ever so larger....austerity will be hard for Americans when the (forced by the market) time comes?




+1 Uncle +1



young-gun said:


> I only have around 50 Hopefully there is plenty left at the local bullion dealer when they re-open.
> 
> 
> 
> I can't handle anymore of this BS coming out of the states. I can't wait for all this to come to an end so hopefully normality can eventually be restored and a more stable system in place.




+1



Aussiejeff said:


> But, there will be another 11th hour agreement by another Super-duper Committee to reconvene in a further 2 months, and so on ad-nauseum for years....
> 
> With each bi-monthly Committee "agreement to solve the problem", the shock market will soar. Who cares if nothing is fixed. "Market sentiment" rulez, right?
> 
> Trillionaires, place your bets......




+1



Aussiejeff said:


> GG, I must take issue. We the cognisenti of ASF have diligently refrained for years from opening a thread with the *gasp* unmentionable term "F$$$$$ C$$$" therein.
> 
> Everyone was happy, with heads buried comfortably neath the sands of time. No unmentionable to bother us at all.
> 
> ...




I would much prefer a good on catastrophic plunge in everything, no bailouts and then a new start.

This constipation needs a good cleanout.

gg


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## cynic (3 January 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> +1 Uncle +1
> 
> 
> 
> ...




+1.


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## WilkensOne (5 January 2013)

I had a good chuckle over this.


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## Garpal Gumnut (5 January 2013)

WilkensOne said:


> I had a good chuckle over this.
> 
> View attachment 50273




+1

I think I'm going to have a Porterhouse Blue from mirth.

gg


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## CanOz (5 January 2013)

WilkensOne said:


> I had a good chuckle over this.
> 
> View attachment 50273




Thats is GOLD...needs to be explained to EVERY numpty in the US...

38.5 should be 385 yeah?

CanOz


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## WilkensOne (5 January 2013)

Honestly I didn't check the math on it put the point is there =P


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## Julia (5 January 2013)

Terrific, Wilkens.  Thanks.


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## explod (5 January 2013)

Dan Norcini, a Chicago pit trader is starting see see red.  His opening statement yesterday.




> Thursday, January 3, 2013
> Commodity Index Back to Where it Started the Year
> Don't you just love the Fed? Are you not glad they provide such a calming, soothing, effect on our finanical markets? Are you not glad they are there to provide balance to the unruly animal spirits that send prices careening wildy in one direction or the other?
> 
> ...


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## Garpal Gumnut (5 January 2013)

explod said:


> Dan Norcini, a Chicago pit trader is starting see see red.  His opening statement yesterday.




Agree totally explod.

It all comes down to governance.

The US is basically led by a Social Worker.

I have mates who are black who I would consider most unfit for POFUS.
I have mates who are social workers I would consider most unfit for POFUS.
I have mates who are Professors and I wouldn't send them down to the corner shop to buy me a packet of fags.

This guy is not up to it.

In retrospect Hillary Clinton who I met briefly in Little Rock in 1970 or 71, can't remember, was tired but not emotional, would have been a better President.

Her mistake was that she had one root with the greatest shyster in US political history.

It will all pan out with time.

gg


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## FlyingFox (5 January 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> The US is basically led by a Social Worker.




True, could said of a lot of places though. Politics and Cooperate governance have gone down the same route. Let's be popular/make money now. We won't be held responsible for any repercussions so why bother making the hard decisions. 

Why make tough decisions and deficit cuts and have everyone complain when you can just print money. Unfortunately the general populous falls into one of the categories of [don't care, this doesn't affect me, does not understand the implication, hey great; JH set me a check] and they get away with it.

Also there may not be any easy viable solution. What most people fail to realise is that we have probably seen the greatest amount of everything in the history of humanity in the last generation or two. For the first time in history, population pyramids are reversing. A lot of economic models start going out the window....

This is not an excuse for poor governance, just saying.




Garpal Gumnut said:


> I have mates who are Professors and I wouldn't send them down to the corner shop to buy me a packet of fags.
> 
> gg




I should take offence but this is probably true....


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## sydboy007 (8 January 2013)

You've obviously not been reading Gottliebsen.

He's quite shrilly proclaiming the shale gas revolution will empower US industree and manuacfturers with cheap energy.  Gosh they might even start exporting it to Asia as a real kick in the guts.

Considering their Government spends it's days and nights herding cats, I just find it a tad hard to believe.

I Know, nevger quite count out the Yankees, but considering they can't even agree what colour the sky is....

Similar to the 40 yr old virgin who grew up in some little house in Texas


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## Aussiejeff (8 January 2013)

Meanwhile.....

Those brave bankers from Banks-R-Us will attempt to scale the dizzying heights of the daunting Fiscal Cliffs thanks to this......(praise be to Lord Basel)



> *Banks Win 4-Year Delay as Basel Liquidity Rule Loosened*



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...r-delay-as-basel-liquidity-rule-loosened.html

Trillionaire$, place your bet$.....


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## FlyingFox (8 January 2013)

sydboy007 said:


> You've obviously not been reading Gottliebsen.
> 
> He's quite shrilly proclaiming the shale gas revolution will empower US industree and manuacfturers with cheap energy.  Gosh they might even start exporting it to Asia as a real kick in the guts.
> 
> ...




Hahaha, I read a lot of things....doesn't mean I have to believe it.

Having said that, the US is putting A LOT of resources behind shale gas/oil. My brother works in the industry and he was telling me that most of these were not existent pre-GFC and have come up in 5-7 years. Whether it for economic reasons or just political ones (ie middle east, south American countries refusing to export oil) remains to be seen. 

What might be worrying is that they may never turn of the tap.....QE3, QE4.....QEX


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## FlyingFox (8 January 2013)

Shades of Zimbabwe

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323706704578228072822313666.html


It would be funny if it wasn't so stupid! Got laugh at it anyway.


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## young-gun (8 January 2013)

explod said:


> Dan Norcini, a Chicago pit trader is starting see see red.  His opening statement yesterday.




Makes you wonder how it's all going to end, and more importantly when. Fed will obviously get more and more creative with ways to flush 'money' through the system, no doubt stopping just short of transferring a few thousand per family straight into bank accounts for a spend up.

The end of ever expanding credit is near(or not).


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## Garpal Gumnut (8 January 2013)

It's Only Money.

By Cliff Richard

gg


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## Uncle Festivus (9 January 2013)

young-gun said:


> Makes you wonder how it's all going to end, and more importantly when. Fed will obviously get more and more creative with ways to flush 'money' through the system, no doubt stopping just short of transferring a few thousand per family straight into bank accounts for a spend up.
> 
> The end of ever expanding credit is near(or not).




They have already created ways to get money velocity into the system - 

- Federal regulators on Monday reached an $8.5 billion settlement with ten banks over foreclosure abuses stemming from the so-called robo-signing scandal, a deal that government officials say is expected to help more than 3.8 million borrowers.

- Bank of America will pay $3.6 billion to Fannie Mae as well as repurchase certain mortgage loans made from 2000 through 2008 for $6.75 billion, a move it said would cut its fourth-quarter pretax income by about $2.7 billion. 

- Companies using Fed created funds to pay dividends instead of out of earnings

- Companies using Fed created funds for share buy-backs - The 19 largest U.S. banks must submit by Monday their plans to return capital to shareholders as part of an annual Fed-supervised exercise.....

- Banks using excess funds to trade 'risky' things eg JP Morgan & the whale episode

- Auto loans from the Government - record car sales - bringing forward sales from the future

- Student loans from the Government, approaching $1TRILLION now - free money, not expected to be repaid?

etc etc

And the ultimate indication that they have hit the wall - 




“It sounds silly but it’s absolutely legal,” Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-New York) tells New York Capital this week. “There is specific statutory authority that says that the Federal Reserve can mint any non-gold or -silver coin in any denomination, so all you do is you tell the Federal Reserve to make a platinum coin for one trillion dollars, and then you deposit it in the Treasury account, and you pay your bills.”

http://www.watchonlinesimpsons.com/watch/S9E20-the-trouble-with-trillions


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## Aussiejeff (9 January 2013)

Uncle Festivus said:


> They have already created ways to get money velocity into the system -
> 
> - Federal regulators on Monday reached an $8.5 billion settlement with ten banks over foreclosure abuses stemming from the so-called robo-signing scandal, a deal that government officials say is expected to help more than 3.8 million borrowers.
> 
> ...




Why limit it to $1 Trillion?

Why not make a $100 Trillion coin??

US would be swimming in wealth then....


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## FlyingFox (9 January 2013)

Aussiejeff said:


> Why limit it to $1 Trillion?
> 
> Why not make a $100 Trillion coin??
> 
> US would be swimming in wealth then....




Well jeff, they still have to look like they have half a brain and haven't completely lost the plot, right?


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