# Bailout doubts already



## MrBurns (22 September 2008)

From the Business Today site - 



> Rick Klusman, head of institutional trading at Aequs Securities, predicts the market will rally sharply early and then fall away because the US is expecting a weaker open on Wall Street.
> 
> Fears the $US700 billion financial services industry bailout will fail to solve the global financial crisis have US investors betting that Wall Street will fall when it opens this evening Australia time.
> 
> ...


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## Green08 (22 September 2008)

Quite an interesting site with real facts on the USA and what will happen.

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article6364.html


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## Green08 (22 September 2008)

DOW	

FUTURES	FUTURES FAIR VALUE (42.44)

11388.44	11247.0	-112.00	 	11401.44	11247.0	-154.44


S&P 500	

FUTURES	FUTURES FAIR VALUE (11.78)

1255.08	1236.5	-9.50	 	1257.78	1236.5	-21.28


NASDAQ	

FUTURES	FUTURES FAIR VALUE (17.41)

1745.06	1726.5	-13.00	 	1756.91	1726.5	-30.4


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## Knobby22 (22 September 2008)

Green08 said:


> Quite an interesting site with real facts on the USA and what will happen.
> 
> http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article6364.html




I think the Fed are betting if they can turn this around then property valuations will stop dropping and more money won't be needed.

If this doesn't happen then God help us all.

I like the quote:

As President Bush said today, it does not help to find who is at fault today, we have to figure out how to get out of this mess. It is going to cost the taxpayers a lot of money


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## MrBurns (22 September 2008)

> As President Bush said today, it does not help to find who is at fault today,* we have to figure out how to get out of this mess.* It is going to cost the taxpayers a lot of money




I thought they'd already worked that out, there goes Bush again telling the truth by mistake.

All they can do is work the confidence trick, they cant fix this it has to run it's natural course.


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## Julia (22 September 2008)

There was an item on "The World Today" suggesting that the bail out in the US will include all debt!, i.e. including credit card debt, student loans, everything!!

Surely that couldn't be right?


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## YELNATS (22 September 2008)

Julia said:


> There was an item on "The World Today" suggesting that the bail out in the US will include all debt!, i.e. including credit card debt, student loans, everything!!
> 
> Surely that couldn't be right?




Wow, the joy of living in the US of A. Can I emigrate there with my credit card debt? Heaven on earth.:


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## deadset (22 September 2008)

Apparently there's a bit of a problem with student loans there.
I remember coming across this song after seeing an article about Sallie Mae : (has a familiar ring that name)
He could probably make some money back writing songs and videos  :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtIM_TEQxwA


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## cuttlefish (22 September 2008)

Whats with how all the reports refer to the bailout document as a 'three page' document.   "The treasury released the 3 page proposal".    Read the "3 page" bailout proposal here.

Wow - three whole pages - thats so long you can't even read the whole thing out on a cnn video grab - it must be pretty detailed.   Congress can vote on it but it'll have to be in three weeks time after Bush has managed to get through the whole document.  (someone tell him which way up it goes first though.).


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## Green08 (22 September 2008)

I really think Bush would understand if it was read to him slowly like on 9/11. Put him in a little chair and have him listen while he tries not to "blink".


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## deadset (22 September 2008)

Reminds me of that famous quote when he first took office.
"The dashboard of the economy has a few red lights right now"

I actually liked that quote.


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## deadset (22 September 2008)

They surely couldn't include credit card debt and all student loans.3

You'd have to wonder what people that have managed their household debt in the USA with normal loans and are still paying it off would have to think.  Maybe they still have time to switch to a bad loan .  (Actually I also wonder what rate people in this situation could get in the near future).

I can kind of see where they are coming from, if the debt ladden companies go belly up, there's a chance they could reclaim nothing of the principal.  Whereas at least they'd be getting at least the % of what the house is worth at current values (in a worst case situation).  I might be revealing my lack of knowledge here, so I'll assume that debt never dies in the meantime.


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## Temjin (22 September 2008)

Might as well give every woman and children in America $1 million each and get this over and done with. Why do it bits by bits?


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## CanOz (22 September 2008)

Temjin said:


> Might as well give every woman and children in America $1 million each and get this over and done with. Why do it bits by bits?




LOL! You mean give them a 1 Million Dollar bank loan each!


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## Green08 (22 September 2008)

"The list, which includes nearly 800 stocks temporarily banned from short selling, was clearly put together in a rush and includes several stocks that are not in the financial services sector - such as a Nigerian aviation company - as well as some that are no longer trading" - By CNBC.com | 19 Sep 2008 | 04:12 PM ET   There are thousands of credit institutions in the USA.

and with these ones not on the list

AIV....APARTMENT INVT & MGMT CO

AVB...AVALONBAY COMMUNITIES INC

AXP ....AMERICAN EXPRESS FINANCIAL

BXP....BOSTON PROPERTIES INC

CBG....CB RICHARD ELLIS GROUP INC

CIT....CIT GROUP INC 

COF....CAPITAL ONE FINL CORP

DDR....DEVELOPERS DVSFD REALTY CORP

DFS....DISCOVER FINANCIAL SERVICES

EQR....EQUITY RESIDENTIAL

FITB....FIFTH THIRD BANCORP

GGP....GENERAL GROWTH PPTYS INC

HCP....HCP INC

HIG....HARTFORD FINL SVCS GRP INC

HST....HOST HOTEL & RESORTS INC

IVZ....INVESCO LTD

KIM....KIMCO REALTY CORP

LM....LEGG MASON INC

MET....METLIFE INC

MMC....MARSH & MCLENNAN COS INC

MTB....M & T BANK CORP

PLD....PROLOGIS

PSA....PUBLIC STORAGE 

SPG....SIMON PROPERTY GROUP INC

VNO....VORNADO REALTY TRUST


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## Green08 (22 September 2008)

".....bailout tab to $1.8 trillion.

Following are details of actions, proposals and amounts:

—Up to $700 billion to buy assets from struggling institutions. The plan is aimed at sopping up residential and commercial mortgages from financial institutions but gives Treasury broad latitude.

—*Up to $50 billion from the Great Depression-era Exchange Stabilization Fund *to guarantee principal in money market mutual funds to provide the same confidence that consumers have in federally insured bank deposits."  

They actually still had a Fund running from the Great Depression?

http://riskmoment.com/ralm/2008/09/...hange-stabilization-fund-to-the-rescue-again/


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## Macquack (22 September 2008)

deadset said:


> Reminds me of that famous quote when he first took office.
> "The dashboard of the economy has a few red lights right now"




An update of the current situation by George Bush
"Somebody has stolen the dashboard
 There are holes in the fire wall
 The engine is on fire
 But dont worry folks, we are going to extinguish the flames with some gasoline."


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## Green08 (23 September 2008)

What makes me sick it that they are doing this all to save face.  The one stupid face of Bush the most un-American of all Americans.  

With all this money just materialising think of what they COULD have done to assist their country in health care, education etc...........................

Does this put "the greatest nation on earth" on a path to stagflation?  

I know our government put $1.5 billion in the float scheme.  Hey what about the people!

It is a simple process, look after your helath, look after your family and it branches from there.  

I'd love to ask as these politicans in USA who are so devout and looking quite stressed these days - is this Part of God's Divine Plan?  Must be as everything else is....do unto others as others have done to you......


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## BradK (23 September 2008)

Green08 said:


> What makes me sick it that they are doing this all to save face.  The one stupid face of Bush the most un-American of all Americans.
> 
> With all this money just materialising think of what they COULD have done to assist their country in health care, education etc...........................
> 
> ...




Agree, these guys can stump up to bail out the big end of town, yet the health care system is shot. Unbelievable


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## MrBurns (23 September 2008)

Green08 said:


> What makes me sick it that they are doing this all to save face.  The one stupid face of Bush the most un-American of all Americans.
> 
> With all this money just materialising think of what they COULD have done to assist their country in health care, education etc...........................
> 
> ...




I agree im fact I heard a comment yesterday that made me sit up, The US couldn't find the time or money for Global Warming but the minute their buddies on Wall St are in trouble all of a sudden they have found a spare Trillion, I don't even know if Global Warming is a reality but it proves the point that they can find the money when they want to.


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## seasprite (23 September 2008)

Montgomery burns is suppose to be a heartless b.........
You brought a tear to my eye.
Economist stand to make a lot of money with their power of making a yoyo market benefit them. It is true the US economy is in bad shape , but imagine those who take advantage of this knowing full well their comments will lower or raise the market to suit.


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## MrBurns (23 September 2008)

seasprite said:


> Montgomery burns is suppose to be a heartless b.........




Well, that's odd ... I've just robbed a man of his livelihood, and yet I feel strangely empty. Tell you what, Smithers - have him beaten to a pulp.


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## Green08 (23 September 2008)

One thing that has become obvious is that a excellent education - "the best on wall street" and money can not give the slightest sense of INTEGRITY.

Is Integrity Dead?

How do you teach you children or young people that integrity is paramount.  yes you can have money but pure greed is shocking it should be a crime.  Bush and his pals should be in Guantanamo Bay prison.


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## pepperoni (23 September 2008)

Ill bet there never was any real comprehensive bailout ... just well placed propaganda to buy time.

The ASX went up about 10% for nothing ... and way overshot other markets ... aussies get so sucked into the hype be it property or bailouts ... we are probably the ultimate US sycophant while the rest of the world either distrusts or hates them .... not a scrap of healthy cynicism anywhere ... makes me embarrased to be an aussie.

Rant over.


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## Doris (23 September 2008)

I wonder why GWB thinks the whole world is watching? 

Subtle warning to Obama to not push strategies in his plan...

*Bush Urges Congress to Pass Relief Bill*



> President George W. Bush said his administration has made headway on the proposed $700 billion Wall Street rescue plan, but urged lawmakers to keep legislation focused on the financial crisis.
> *Here, the full text of his statement.*
> 
> Over the weekend, members of my Administration and congressional leaders worked on legislation to address the crisis in our Nation’s financial markets. They made good headway toward a bill that can pass the House and Senate in a timely manner, and the American people appreciate their efforts.
> ...



http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/09/22/bush-urges-congress-to-pass-relief-bill/


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## pepperoni (23 September 2008)

Communism wins.  

Flawless Vistory.


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## bankit (23 September 2008)

A good light read at the following link.

It is obvious that the big end of town is still in control of things in the US. Until that culture is broken we will remain in turmoil.
The bottom is not yet in in any of the Global markets.

http://www.financialsense.com/Market/wrapup.htm

The above link changes daily so if you are reading this the day following this post you have to refer to their daily wrapup which is in blue and select "Monday"


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## refined silver (23 September 2008)

from the daily reckoning...

So… how much is $700 billion? 

1. It’s equal to the yearly economic output of every man woman and child in Saudi Arabia and Denmark, combined.  

2. In $100 bills, it’s about 15 million pounds of money. That’s almost as heavy as all the steel and iron in the Eiffel Tower.  

3. Laid end to end in $1 bills, it’s around 70 million miles… enough to touch Mars most times during its elliptical orbit around the sun each year.  

4. Every single person in the U.S. would have to write you a check for $2,000 to total $700 billion.  

And… for all the whining done about the cost of the Iraq war, in one three-page proposal sent to Congress over the weekend, the Bush administration asked for as much as the entire five-year engagement in Iraq has cost. The plan will rescue the forlorn and helpless “masters of the universe” on Wall Street this week.


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## refined silver (23 September 2008)

continued...

That $700 billion figure, mind you, was guesstimated by the same folks who announced in July 2007 that they thought subprime losses could total a staggering $50-100 billion. 

So you can expect the $700 billion to be like a “starter wife” -- a temporary convenience while planning for an upgrade.


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## refined silver (23 September 2008)

and...

Let’s scribble on the back of our proverbial envelope for a moment: 

$700 billion bailout package for Wall Street
$438 billion projected deficit in the federal budget for FY 2008
$200 billion for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
$150 billion in rebate checks under the guise of “stimulus”
$85 billion for AIG
$29 billion for Bear Stearns 

Hmmm… $1,602 billion…. that’s quite a bill for the year… not to mention the nearly $1.6 trillion in Treasury swaps and short-term paper the Federal Reserve has lent out during its auction facilities. 

(Thats $3.2trillion so far, with no upgrades!!)


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## refined silver (23 September 2008)

And the same guys who got everyone into this, (Paulson was CEO of Goldman in 2005, receiving over $37m personal bonuses that year alone. While at the same time Goldman and other Wall st firms paid $100s of million of dollars in fines to SEC for selling worthless overpriced CDOs etc to pension funds. In other words purposely shafting the general public for personal profit.)

Paulson switched to Treasury so he could bail out all their mates when it finally blew up. (and try to avoid culpability)

He wants a blank check - bigger than the entire defence, health or education budget of the US, with

- no questions asked,
- no accountability
- no oversight,
- and no debate or questions, just do it now.

Good one!!


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