# Margin loan under my wife's name - help



## arruga (2 January 2013)

Hi
I got all my stock holding under my wife's name...for tax purposes obviously (she has no salary, so just income from dividends).
I wanna take a margin loan and keep investing under her name, but now gearing 50%....I can service the loan easily with my salary, but if I take the loan under my name using her holdings as 3rd party security, I cannot invest in shares under her name...Obviously I cannot take the loan under her name as she can not service the loan....what's the best way around this ? 
thanks
a.


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## robusta (2 January 2013)

Can you go guarantor?


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## tech/a (2 January 2013)

Simply open an account in your wife's name with IB and you automatically have a 
margin facility of 2:1 available to you no applying no questions its there ready to go whether you use it or not.


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## qldfrog (3 January 2013)

tech/a said:


> Simply open an account in your wife's name with IB and you automatically have a
> margin facility of 2:1 available to you no applying no questions its there ready to go whether you use it or not.




Hi tech/a,
does this not raise alarm as to the actual future health of IB?
Sounds similar to these no question asked HL in the US before the GFC?:bad:
I do not use IB but this would worry me if I were


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## tech/a (3 January 2013)

qldfrog said:


> Hi tech/a,
> does this not raise alarm as to the actual future health of IB?
> Sounds similar to these no question asked HL in the US before the GFC?:bad:
> I do not use IB but this would worry me if I were




IB have had it available to all clients for as long as I know ---- 20 years.
It's not compulsory to use.

Futures have leverage of ( some ) 100:1 

It's not the leverage which is the issue it's how people use it.

As far as your concern ----- any broker " could go belly up " so if you have over $100,000 funds
---- the amount guaranteed with IB ----- from memory --- and your worried then split it between 
Others. Use IB  for some leveraged trades.


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## skc (3 January 2013)

arruga said:


> Hi
> I got all my stock holding under my wife's name...for tax purposes obviously (she has no salary, so just income from dividends).
> I wanna take a margin loan and keep investing under her name, but now gearing 50%....I can service the loan easily with my salary, but if I take the loan under my name using her holdings as 3rd party security, I cannot invest in shares under her name..*.Obviously I cannot take the loan under her name as she can not service the loan...*.what's the best way around this ?
> thanks
> a.




You sure about that? Guarantor might be a way around it like Robusta suggested.


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## elbee (3 January 2013)

tech/a said:


> IB have had it available to all clients for as long as I know ---- 20 years.
> It's not compulsory to use.




...and IB monitor margin levels in real time and will automatically begin liquidating a client's positions if portfolio value falls below margin requirements - thus protecting themselves and other clients. I believe the insurance level on securities accounts is $500,000.


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## Garpal Gumnut (3 January 2013)

arruga said:


> Hi
> I got all my stock holding under my wife's name...for tax purposes obviously (she has no salary, so just income from dividends).
> I wanna take a margin loan and keep investing under her name, but now gearing 50%....I can service the loan easily with my salary, but if I take the loan under my name using her holdings as 3rd party security, I cannot invest in shares under her name...Obviously I cannot take the loan under her name as she can not service the loan....what's the best way around this ?
> thanks
> a.




I did that with the third Mrs Gumnut, and it is not a good idea. I haven't told the fourth.

gg


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## tech/a (3 January 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I did that with the third Mrs Gumnut, and it is not a good idea. I haven't told the fourth.
> 
> gg




Guarantor isn't a good idea on anything.
A friend who is a single mum covered her son on a new car
40k
In a cruel twist son was killed in the car
And at autopsy was found over the limit.
Insurance refused to pay.

She is Stijl paying off the car.


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## tech/a (3 January 2013)

Just a thought.

Do you know how to use margin without increasing your risk
*OR* do you see this as a way of increasing your capital base by X times.

Just to see where your at.


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## arruga (3 January 2013)

tech/a said:


> Just a thought.
> 
> Do you know how to use margin without increasing your risk
> *OR* do you see this as a way of increasing your capital base by X times.
> ...




Thanks everyone for the replies.
Well, it can't be risk free, can it ? but am confident that my portfolio will perform good over the coming time, so I wanna leverage and make money with lender's money.....haven't used margin loan before, but it suits my risk/reward profile and have done the research so wanna go ahead....do you have any specific recommendations ?
Now, I would be willing to be guarantor, but after a long talk with BT Financial group over the phone, they simply said that my wife is not eligible for a loan, so I'd need to take the loan on my name....so, you guys are saying that I can indeed be a guarantor and take the loan on her name ? does it depend on the lending institution then ? I went with BT as I operate with Westpac On Line investment, and with BT margin loan I can link the accounts and do everything in the same platform...suggestions are welcome. thanks, a.


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## tech/a (3 January 2013)

From your responses I would not recommend you use margin.


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## arruga (4 January 2013)

tech/a said:


> From your responses I would not recommend you use margin.




Appreciate the advice, but I feel a bit insulted...can you please expand ? There's a starting point in every road....how did you get into your first margin loan ? I could use your advice.


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## Trembling Hand (4 January 2013)

arruga said:


> Appreciate the advice, but I feel a bit insulted...can you please expand ? There's a starting point in every road....how did you get into your first margin loan ? I could use your advice.




There is two ways to use leverage only one is the correct way - unless you wear boots with spurs and a big hat...:cowboy:

Leverage should be use to increase position over time using something like fixed fractional position sizing. That is the sensible and mostly proven way to use leverage. Not by simply taking your $100,000 and magically turning it into $200,000 and swinging twice the size holdings.

Even when using leverage with FFPS you still have to worry about portfolio heat but you're probably talking about 10%-20 % rather than the 50% to 100% level I suspect you are about to get yourself into with,



> so I wanna leverage and make money with lender's money..




All this is probably new to you and that is where Tech/A's comment is coming from.


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## tech/a (4 January 2013)

Lets see if we cant alleviate the insulted feeling.

Firstly you didn't directly answer my question--by that I see that as a no. 



arruga said:


> Thanks everyone for the replies.
> Well, it can't be risk free, can it



not Risk free but no more risk than if you were trading a portfolio which was not leveraged.




> but am confident that my portfolio will perform good over the coming time,




This confidence is it a personal "feeling" or is there something that gives you this confidence specifically?



> so I wanna leverage and make money with lender's money.....haven't used margin loan before,




In the right circumstances it makes perfect sense to use other peoples money



> but it suits my risk/reward profile and have done the research so wanna go ahead




I read this as Im happy to take risks---can you explain "Done the research?" research into what and the results that you speak of ?



> ....do you have any specific recommendations ?




With regard to margin trading  T/H has touched on one---fixed Fractional position sizing---but I think your a long way from there at this point.



> Now, I would be willing to be guarantor, but after a long talk with BT Financial group over the phone, they simply said that my wife is not eligible for a loan, so I'd need to take the loan on my name....so, you guys are saying that I can indeed be a guarantor and take the loan on her name ? does it depend on the lending institution then ? I went with BT as I operate with Westpac On Line investment, and with BT margin loan I can link the accounts and do everything in the same platform...suggestions are welcome. thanks, a.




You will need to meet any financial institutions criteria.

After your reply to my queries above I'll wrap up for you.


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## arruga (6 January 2013)

tech/a said:


> After your reply to my queries above I'll wrap up for you.




Ok. This is the thing.
I decided two months ago to invest 150k in stocks..why ? well, you know the story: we may have hit bottom, consumer sentiment is slowly returning, the worst has happened in europe, some postive signals in the states, china keeps growing strong (though constrained growth), emerging markest may flourish, etc , etc, etc. Though volatility is here to stay, we may be set for a bull market. Tons of reading, research, more reading, spreadsheets, simulations, sensitivity analyisis, forum discussions, etc. I'm very methodical, rigurous, pragmatic and hard-working, so I decided to go for it.
I got three portfolios: 1) Large-cap blue chip income stocks, 2) Small-cap growth stocks, 3) ETF's to access US, China & Emerging markets.
In total I got 25 stocks spread out over these three portfolios. I know it may be a bit of overdiversification, which will dilute me and prevent me from large gains, but since I'm new to trading I prefer to play safe and observe what happens during the coming year.
Income stocks were picked following a top-down analysis, whereas growth stocks werer picked from bottom-up. In each case, I picked stocks based on fundamentals. I'm not an active trader, and don't want to become one. I'm here for the long run, and my uderpinning portfolio management strategy would be tactical asset allocation, where I will review quarterly my portfolio and will rebalance it. My risk-management strategy was simple: diversification, where I abide simple rules: no more than 5% of total equity in one single stock, no more than 15% in one single ETF, no more than 25% in one single sector. Position sizing method was this; after selecting stocks to invest in in each portfolio, I worked out the allocated dollar amount to each stock. I purchased that amount in each stock in three stages to apply dollar cost averaging. 
For example, I allocated 50K to my ETF's portfolio. In this, one of the stocks I picked was iShares FTSE China 25 (IZZ), and allocated 18% of the portfolio budget to it, i.e., 9k. I purchased 254 shares in three stages (totalling 9k). Didn't see the need to set a stop loss, as my portfolio is highly diversified. In this case, by following the 2% rule, and working backwards Vince's formula (FPPS), I would need a stock price drop of 34% for the loss to represent a 2% of the total equity. So, no need for a stop loss. However, as my overall portfolio has made a sweet profit of 7k in two months, I may lock in those gains by setting soon some trailing stops (not sure yet about this...I see a conflicting approach with tactical asset allocation...by seting a stop you liquidate a position, whereas with actical asset allocation you just rebalance your portfolio...maybe set alerts to flag times when rebalancing is needed...need to work this out....comments welcome)
Now, I'm thinking of taking a margin loan to leverage. I wanna start conservative, so I would select the safest stocks of my portfolio whose market value total 50k, and would take a 50k loan (50% gearing) to increase those positions. If the stocks are well selected, no need to touch them, just keep an eye on my portfolio and maintain my 50% gearing. I intend to implement a regular gearing plan, i.e. invest a $1000 every month and take a further $1000 loan to increase positions or diversify into new shares.
I find this forum an invaluable tool and advice for experienced investors is always appreciated.
cheers


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## Trembling Hand (6 January 2013)

arruga your success till now has more to do with lucky/good timing than anything you have listed above. Your problem is you will not know until its too late if your "system" is broken and you'll be doing it with someone else's money.


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## arruga (6 January 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> arruga your success till now has more to do with lucky/good timing than anything you have listed above.




I know....I don't get excited with short term results and fluctuarions within a volatility envelope...I'm here for the long run



Trembling Hand said:


> Your problem is you will not know until its too late




Well...it's a learning experience....advice towards knowing better is useful



Trembling Hand said:


> if your "system" is broken




All of what I said is rubbish ? If not, can you specify what specific elements should  I revisit ? 



Trembling Hand said:


> and you'll be doing it with someone else's money.




So, are suggesting that I shouldn't be using margin loan ? Or, further, you're suggesting that I take my money out altogether and I shouldn't be investing in stocks at all ? Again, what I'd appreciate is guidance towards knowing better and improving investment strategies and techniques. Thanks


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## tech/a (6 January 2013)

I'm afraid I had quite a reply that took over 1 hr to type
I just deleted it some how.

Dont have the time or inclination to do again. 

Good luck in your investment journey.


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## CanOz (6 January 2013)

Hmm, maybe this is an indicator of things to come...Retail mom and pop investors using leverage again...

CanOz


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## Garpal Gumnut (6 January 2013)

CanOz said:


> Hmm, maybe this is an indicator of things to come...Retail mom and pop investors using leverage again...
> 
> CanOz




I had similar thoughts, CanOz.

Let's not deter them, money needs to move about.

I am predicting a big crash this year. This couple have a need to leverage up for it. 

gg


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## burglar (6 January 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I had similar thoughts, CanOz.
> 
> Let's not deter them, money needs to move about.
> 
> ...




Are you *all* saying the sooner we get leverage, 
the sooner we can stuff it up and learn the lesson?

I had used leverage in 1981
It was not a particularly good year.

The broker made money.
The tax man made money.
The Bank made money.

I broke even! Yay!!


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## Mr J (6 January 2013)

It all sounds like something a financial advisor would want to sell me.


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## tech/a (6 January 2013)

There is a place for margin ( leverage )

It is a two edged sword.
The market will prove the most savvy investors
Wrong more often than they are right.

So while the Author may be ( in his own logical way )
Believe he is mitigating risk I personally don't see it.

But this amazing challenge must be faced by investors
And traders.
Prepared as best we think we can.
Experience is the best teacher not 
A thread on a website!!


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## Trembling Hand (6 January 2013)

arruga said:


> I don't get excited with short term results and fluctuations within a volatility envelope..



 I have no idea what a "volatility envelope" is.



arruga said:


> .I'm here for the long run



Best way to do that is to know when and why your system works and when its not working. I doubt very very much you have a clue as to the last line. Really! To do it with leverage is relying solely on luck. You're certainly not the first and certainly not the last to take that approach but that doesn't make it the best way.

You have said you would,


> appreciate guidance towards knowing better and improving investment strategies and techniques.



 But I've already mentioned correct position sizing models, and Tech has mentioned how to use leverage and I've also said that you're increasing your portfolio heat to levels that will make a down turn painful but you haven't, it seems, been bothered to investigate what the hell I'm talking about. As such we will, as above, right you off and just take cheap shots from here.

Good luck.


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## arruga (6 January 2013)

​


Trembling Hand said:


> But I've already mentioned correct position sizing models, and Tech has mentioned how to use leverage and I've also said that you're increasing your portfolio heat to levels that will make a down turn painful but you haven't, it seems, been bothered to investigate what the hell I'm talking about. As such we will, as above, right you off and just take cheap shots from here.




Yes, I have been bothered. There's an overload of info out there, and sometimes it's confusing for a novice. I had read a lot of diversification and tactical asset allocation and that is the strategy I had decided to adopt. Open to change and adopt better techniques once I understand an alternative better approach. On FFPS, like I said before, I don't fully get wheter or not it's conflicting with the asset allocation method I used....is it either or ? Or they are totally different concepts and can be applicable at the same time ? i actually can use the formula not to determine the number of shares to buy for each stock, but to work out the price at which to set a stop.....I'm trying to get my head around this.
Well, after being trashed here,  one god outcome is that taking a margin loan seems a really bad idea. As a matter of fact, it seems that I need to go back to the basics and revisit my risk management strategy...position sizing, entry and exit triggers. Thanks anyway.


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## skyQuake (7 January 2013)

I think I can safely say most of the seasoned ones here have lost a bankroll or two in the early years.

Better to do that without leverage!

Also, stay away from "modern portfolio theory" and all that jazz. A lot of the theory out there is just theory that doesn't apply to real markets.


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## cynic (7 January 2013)

skyQuake said:


> I think I can safely say most of the seasoned ones here have lost a bankroll or two in the early years.
> 
> Better to do that without leverage!
> 
> Also, stay away from "modern portfolio theory" and all that jazz. A lot of the theory out there is just theory that doesn't apply to real markets.



+1

A friend of mine currently lives in a caravan park and trades FX microlots with the limited funds at his disposal (he's currently living on NewStart allowance). Following a recent string of successes, he recently discussed the idea of using a credit card to bolster his trading capital in order to achieve his financial goals sooner (he hopes to become a professional trader).

I decided that rather than simply telling him the safest course of action, that it would be more appropriate to break the situation down into four separate scenarios thereby allowing him to decide for himself:

Scenario 1: Successes were a reflection of skill (not just a lucky streak). Financial goals are achieved by the gradual accumulation of trading profits.

Scenario 2: Same as Scenario 1 except financial goals are achieved much earlier consequent to credit supported upscaling of trading activities.

Scenario 3: Successes were simply a lucky streak. Financial goals are not achieved and trading capital is lost. Trader will need to enhance skills and save more money before achieving goals.

Scenario 4: Same as Scenario 3 except trader now has interest accruing debt due to use of credit card facility. Additional to skill enhancement, trader will need to service debt and save more money before achieving financial goals.


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## Garpal Gumnut (7 January 2013)

skyQuake said:


> I think I can safely say most of the seasoned ones here have lost a bankroll or two in the early years.
> 
> Better to do that without leverage!
> 
> Also, stay away from "modern portfolio theory" and all that jazz. A lot of the theory out there is just theory that doesn't apply to real markets.




+1

gg


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## arruga (7 January 2013)

skyQuake said:


> Also, stay away from "modern portfolio theory" and all that jazz. A lot of the theory out there is just theory that doesn't apply to real markets.




hey...thanks...that's clear advice...i would have thought that that was the way to go...what's the approach then that I should stick to ? Any name for that approach, system, techqnique ? Any links, books, authors you would recommend ? It seems that reading "everything" out there has created a mix of concepts from incompatible or opposing systems that I haven't been able to discriminate...for instance, FPPS that has been mentioned here, leads to portfolio concentration, whereas I had pretty much gotten crystal clear that the golden rule for risk management was diversification...therefore: confusion....need to focus on one school of thought, and block off the noise...which one ?


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## burglar (7 January 2013)

arruga said:


> ... therefore: confusion ...




Very confusing ...  Diversification is double edged.
It is oft touted as useful to novices to prevent huge losses.
I found it unhelpful in the GFC as many baskets fell,
breaking most of the eggs. 
But that was a rare event! Right!!




Diversification reduces risk ... but risk is related to reward!


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## FlyingFox (7 January 2013)

skyQuake said:


> I think I can safely say most of the seasoned ones here have lost a bankroll or two in the early years.
> 
> Better to do that without leverage!
> 
> Also, stay away from "modern portfolio theory" and all that jazz. A lot of the theory out there is just theory that doesn't apply to real markets.




It maybe theory but it is applied to the market all the time. Not saying it is right but it is good to understand why it was developed and how it is used. Most of the "all that jazz" is used by large hedge funds etc. It is designed for particular purpose with particular models in mind. They have internal standards for risk v reward and diversification and not changing market conditions etc.  

Useful in its place, probably not so much for retail investors. Good to understand either way.




burglar said:


> Very confusing ...  Diversification is double edged.
> It is oft touted as useful to novices to prevent huge losses.
> I found it unhelpful in the GFC as many baskets fell,
> breaking most of the eggs.
> ...




True. 

Also depends on how actively and passively you want/will manage your portfolio.


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## Trembling Hand (7 January 2013)

FlyingFox said:


> Most of the "all that jazz" is used by large hedge funds etc.
> 
> 
> Useful in its place, probably not so much for retail investors. Good to understand either way.




Some irony in who's telling who there. Pretty sure skyQuake knows what hedge funds do.


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## FlyingFox (7 January 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> Some irony in who's telling who there. Pretty sure skyQuake knows what hedge funds do.




My most sincerest apologies to skyQuake in that case. No offence intended.


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## Garpal Gumnut (7 January 2013)

arruga said:


> Hi
> I got all my stock holding under my wife's name...for tax purposes obviously (she has no salary, so just income from dividends).
> I wanna take a margin loan and keep investing under her name, but now gearing 50%....I can service the loan easily with my salary, but if I take the loan under my name using her holdings as 3rd party security, I cannot invest in shares under her name...Obviously I cannot take the loan under her name as she can not service the loan....what's the best way around this ?
> thanks
> a.




Just to bring some reality to all this, amourges, what is your experience of risk?

Apart from this attempt to offset risk against taxable income.

Ever had a dangerous experience, weapon drawn against you, angry husband come after you, driven a car or bike to the max.

Ever been parachuting, played two up, thrown a lazy thousand on the Odd at roulette.

I'd be interested to know.

gg


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## arruga (8 January 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Just to bring some reality to all this, amourges, what is your experience of risk?
> 
> Apart from this attempt to offset risk against taxable income.
> 
> ...




Used to be and adrenaline addict in my younger years (parachuting, motorbiking and other sports, and all sorts of weird adventures in m world travelling). I guess the riskier decision i ever made was to leave my safe job, friends and country behind and come to the other half of the world to try my luck. After two years in NZ i quit my job without having any other job offer (it was a calculated risk though)...things turn out quite fine and am pretty happy over here. Back to the stock market, i gather a margin loan is not a good option for me, at the very least because it may require more time of me to be on top of it, which is not my objective...plus the prize is not worth the risk for my capital base. I don't want to become an active trader. I want to learn and be as knowledgeable as possible but my goal is long term. The outcome of this thread has been that I need to come back to basics and revisit some fundamentals and probably re-define my investment strategy. Even here a few posts from experts Have left me with more confusion: diversification vs concentration, tactical allocation, modern portfolio theory or other, set or not stops ? In the end i wanna set a system that answers:
1) how many stocks in my portfolio and position size ? 
if FFPS, it limits the number of positions I can take, i.e. concentration, vs the diversification rules I had adopted....need to clarify this better...plus, FfPS requires setting stop losses....but not convinced if this done under a long term investment strategy
2) Entry trigger ? everyone says: buy at a discount...the whole point in value investing is buying below intrinsic value....however, i think that the estimation of intrinsic value is bull**** and its uncertainty is way bigger than the price variation due to market volatility at any one moment....therefore, I say...who cares the price, if the bet is long term growth? Some dollar cost averaging can be implemented to cater for volatility, which is what I did....not that it will make much of a difference in the long term anyway
3) Exit trigger ? Should I set stops ? They must be set if FFPS is applied, right ? As my bet is long term, should I move the stops up as the stocks grow (to breakeven stops then trailing stops)? if tactical allocation, no stops, just rebalancing quarterly or six-monthly...need to clarify this too
4) best way to protect assets, especially to lock in gains....are put options the best way to go ? Or just simple alerts or stops and liquidate positions ?


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## burglar (8 January 2013)

arruga said:


> ... Some dollar cost averaging ...




I am no expert, far from it.
But I think you have a firm grasp of the problems you face.


Be careful with "dollar cost averaging"; it works until it stops working!
Some are lucky and get far enough ahead while it is working!
They get to argue the point.

My take on averaging: 
1). the share price needs to move significantly in both directions.
2). the company needs to stay solvent.


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## skyQuake (8 January 2013)

@ FlyingFox, none taken 
Just in my experience any real gems are closely guarded and designed by quants rather than academics.

@ arruga
Gonna make some broad sweeping generalizations here, not financial advice etc
1) 10 or 20 if u can manage. Not too many as you will get overwhelmed. Setting smaller stops allows you to take "bigger" positions.
Diversification is not as effective as say maybe 5 or 10 years ago. Too many things move in sync these days.
2) Entry depends on your system: fundamental/macro? Technicals? Statistics? Arbitrage? Dartboard?
3) Its a lot harder to set stops for fundamental investments. But as Keynes said, "Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent."
Rebalancing every 6 months is for big whales that *cant* stop out because they own 20% of the company. Liquidity and rebals become a bigger concern than price.
4) Stops > alerts > put oppies (unless you have 2+ years exp in oppies and understand how/when the marketmakers try to screw u) > get out when it hurts too much
I know you're looking at long term, but worth having a look at technicals. Some of the simple stuff like stay away from sustained obvious downtrends.

Good luck


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## FlyingFox (8 January 2013)

skyQuake said:


> @ FlyingFox, none taken
> Just in my experience any real gems are closely guarded and designed by quants rather than academics.




I guess that is why it is called Financial Engineering and not Financial Science


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## Garpal Gumnut (8 January 2013)

burglar said:


> I am no expert, far from it.
> But I think you have a firm grasp of the problems you face.
> 
> 
> ...




With the greatest of respects I would disagree with you burglar.

He has as much grip on "risk" as Saddam Hussein had on the nuances of Shakespeare.

He is so risk averse, that he is paralysed.

He wants to cover all the bases, risk, portfolio, tax, with no prospect of loss.

He would be better to place all his moolah on an odd or even at Roulette at his local Casino. His chances would be 49%.

I do it regularly, weekly, at Jupiters, at 10.10am ( on Topless Tuesday at the Ross Island Hotel.)

So far starting with a $1000 bet and continuing with a $1000 bet I have accumulated $8000.

Life is risky. This joker is trying to eliminate risk.

It is even more risky at the Ross Island Hotel on Topless Tuesday.

gg


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## burglar (9 January 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> With the greatest of respects I would disagree with you burglar.
> 
> He has as much grip on "risk" as Saddam Hussein had on the nuances of Shakespeare.
> 
> gg




Sorry gg. I disagree,
both Saddam Hussein *and* Little Miss Muffet, had Kurds in the way!


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## arruga (9 January 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> He is so risk averse, that he is paralysed.





Yeah...that's why I invested 150k of my savings and wanted to take a marign loan




Garpal Gumnut said:


> He wants to cover all the bases, risk, portfolio, tax, with no prospect of loss.




Yes...guilty...want to understand as much as possible in all fronts




Garpal Gumnut said:


> He would be better to place all his moolah on an odd or even at Roulette at his local Casino. His chances would be 49%.
> 
> I do it regularly, weekly, at Jupiters, at 10.10am ( on Topless Tuesday at the Ross Island Hotel.)
> 
> So far starting with a $1000 bet and continuing with a $1000 bet I have accumulated $8000.




Is this funny ? Am i supposed to laugh ? It seems that the joker is you after all




Garpal Gumnut said:


> Life is risky.



Wow ! What a statement ! Not only an expert trader, but also a comediant  and on top of that a philosopher ! Please...give somebody else a chance !



Garpal Gumnut said:


> This joker is trying to eliminate risk.
> 
> It is even more risky at the Ross Island Hotel on Topless Tuesday.
> 
> gg





You close your contribution with one final funny joke...thanks

Why on earth would you waste your time posting useless agressive comments on some nonsense posted by  a joker? just for the fun of it ? If you see me that lost, can't you just say :"I recommend you to read 'XXX' "? That is more useful and it takes 2 seconds. Or is it that you come around here trying to spot novices, take cheap shots and laugh with your expert virtual faceless mates so you can compliment each other for being the smartest ? No wonder why your fourth wife will leave you soon too.


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## Garpal Gumnut (9 January 2013)

arruga said:


> Yeah...that's why I invested 150k of my savings and wanted to take a marign loan
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Apologies arruga,

I was merely trying to save you from your own constipation.

Please continue and I will desist as long as I can.

Read about Icarus.

gg


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