# Newsletter salespeople - Is this right?!



## Aussiest (14 August 2008)

Hi fellow ASFers 

Now, i originally didn't want to post this for obvious reasons (i don't like slagging people off), but i feel i can't hold it back.

A few weeks ago, i came across a share subscription / newsletter / recommendation site whilst googling some terminology. I was not on the lookout for a subscription service, but when they offered 5 days free trial, i thought, "why not"? And, stupid me gave them my real phone no.

Anyway, the problem isn't that i gave them my phone no., the problem is that the salesperson rang me and proceeded to do the following:


Was reluctant to answer direct questions about the service without first establishing my level of experience, and whether i was " currently in the market".

Everytime i asked a rational question, ie, "what exactly is your core business?" (because it was unclear to me), he would answer my question with another question.

He constantly tried to talk over me when i asked these questions.

After not swallowing his sales pitch, he actually told me that he wouldn't accept my credit card details, even if i handed them to him "now".

Told me that we "couldn't work together", to which i answered, "if you're a subcription service, it wouldn't require that we _work together_".

When i asked several times for a price, *would not give it to me*

I mean, WTF (sorry about swearing) is that all about?

I hung up on him. He then called back.

When i spoke with him a second time, he ran all this stuff by me, their returns etc., which sounded quite good, but seemed to rely in high leverage. 

He then started quizzing me on my "returns" and whether theirs was "better than mine", and asked me whether i thought they could be of "benefit" to me. I replied with, "i can't answer that question right now", which is purely rational and logical (who wouldn't think about a question like that before answering?!).

Anyhow, to cut a long story short, i then started quizzing him again on the price. He WOULDN'T give it to me. I then started to say, "when you're prepared to give me a price, call me back", before he interjected with, "look XXX, i'll tell you the truth, i don't think we could work with you", to which i replied, "fine!" (waiting to get off the phone). He then sent me another email. 

Omg, what is that all about? Is that unethical or what?

Why wouldn't he give me a price?

(I was actually prepared to give these guys a go, but after his attitude, i am done ).

*Thanks for title Moderator  So much more fitting...


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## Family_Guy (14 August 2008)

*Re: Is this right?!*

Oh.....i hear ya. 2 or 3 weeks ago i was on theage.com.au site and found some free stuff from a company called ShareSelect.......am i allowed to name names? To bad, did already.

At the time, i honestly thought it was a free service from the Age. Then came the phone calls. Kept calling me back and after repeated attempts to say i was new to the markets he said i should join their service......from memory, $1200 a year. I asked for a free 3 month trial to see if the claims of a 40% something return was legit, and he said he'd try and get me a 3 month thing at a reduced price for me. Kept telling me they were the shiznit.

I said i did my own research and was happy with what i was doing for now and i get some good tips from some sites already that i am watching.......he kept at me and at me over a 2 week period and the last call came through the day the missus walked out........i went nuts, poor guy would have needed rehabilitation after i finished with him.

Seems to me that any shmuck can open a website, give out info and charge for it. :cowboy:


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## tech/a (14 August 2008)

Why are you even asking the question?

Bugger off comes to mind.

Have i got a deal for YOU!

*Now---listen carefully.
*
My real name is Bernard Fucoffee
I'm CEO of the Woodduck Bank.
I just need you bank details to launder $38,000,000
Just private mail me with them-------


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## Aussiest (14 August 2008)

tech/a said:


> Why are you even asking the question?
> 
> Bugger off comes to mind.
> 
> ...




Haha, thanks tech/a. I hear ya. I was done with him early on, but i realised that a good business decision is a good bus. decision, regardless of whether you like the person or not. And, it was my perverse sense of curiosity that compelled me to find out how much his / their service was.

Family Guy, i think we're talking about the same organisation. How the hell did you get the price out of them?!


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## Family_Guy (14 August 2008)

He asked "what is stopping you? Is it the price?"
That's when he told me. It was on that website, hard to find but i did find it.
The thing that got me so annoyed was that IT DID NOT APPEAR TO BE ADVERTISING, it ssssoooo looked like a free service from the Age, it's the only reason i filled in the blanks.


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## Aussiest (14 August 2008)

The thing that gets me is that their core service (what they are really offering) is not clear on their website, nor is their price.

I am going to search it now for info, lol.

So, if i had got further into the questioning, i would have been posed with the "what is stopping you" question...

As i said before, i was willing to pay if i thought it was reasonable and that i could get a reasonable return from them, but the fact that he didn't even give me a price made it somewhat... difficult, shall we say?! Isn't the principle of business KISS: keep it simple stupid? :nono:

Note: i've just found their pricing... I don't know why he wouldn't tell me. It's not that bad when you think about it... I thought it would be around $2,000 per year plus commissions.

Oh, hang on, i'm wondering if it's $690 for the Annual Subscription, PLUS $1,290 for the Trader's Package? Making it a total of $1,980?


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## Family_Guy (14 August 2008)

To be brutally honest, mate, i wouldn't go past the free info you can gather on here and of course top it up with your own research.

But, if it's tips you want, for a small fee i can give you some good tips too.

Try this one out, i'll give you the inside running on her every week. Saturday, Caulfield, race 7 #8.........i'm serious.

That'll be $50, invoice sent.


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## Family_Guy (14 August 2008)

Aussiest said:


> Oh, hang on, i'm wondering if it's $690 for the Annual Subscription, PLUS $1,290 for the Trader's Package? Making it a total of $1,980?




Yep....that was it.


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## slackjaw (14 August 2008)

I am somewhat skeptical of anyone who would charge money for sharemarket advice. If their advice is so good, why do they need my money? Wouldn't they already have ****loads of their own???


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## simama4 (20 August 2008)

Thanks for the heads up.  What was I thinking giving them my number!  I have just saved lots of time, mine and theirs by being really vague.  Oh I can't seem to access the free newsletter anymore, need to ring a number to reset my password! (won't be doing that)


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## Aussiest (20 August 2008)

Oh Simama4, 

I think they're alright, i just didn't like the way the salesperson badgered me and then put me down when i didn't buy his line. If he had have just told me the price straight away, i might have done business with him. It is a 'transperancy' issue... 

The reason you can't log in is because the trial ends after 5 days. Five days isn't quite enough to measure value for money IMO.


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## Timmy (21 August 2008)

Don't forget these salespeople are often following a script or a prescribed technique ... and that these scripts/techniques have a tendency to work most of the time (which is why they use them).

If you have given out your real phone number (tsk tsk) then don't feel constrained to be polite when you get persistent phone calls, some here have suggested a 'Bugger off" ... I think stronger language is often called for and is appropriate (I may have even used such strong language myself in the past )


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## nioka (21 August 2008)

Any time I am confronted with this problem I just tell them to put all the details of their proposition in writing and post it to my PO Box and I will consider their offer. If they have something "real" to offer they will do that.


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## skyQuake (21 August 2008)

tech/a said:


> Why are you even asking the question?
> 
> Bugger off comes to mind.
> 
> ...




Hey Mr Fucoffe, is that deal still open? I have bank account you could use...
:


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## Aussiest (21 August 2008)

Timmy said:


> Don't forget these salespeople are often following a script or a prescribed technique ...




It's funny that you say that Timmy. That is the distinct feeling i got from the guy and i don't know anything about sales, so i wasn't sure of the authenticity of his 'schpeel'. But, nevertheless, when he wouldn't stray from his script and when i tried to ask sensible questions, he just retorted with more questions, which didn't suit me at all.

My warning bells went off when i mentioned 'support and resistance' and he didn't seem to know what i was talking about. Tsk Tsk.


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## Timmy (21 August 2008)

Aussiest said:


> My warning bells went off when i mentioned 'support and resistance' and he didn't seem to know what i was talking about. Tsk Tsk.




That is so funny .... 

Yeah, and the "answer a question with a question" is an old technique.  Not always useful though...


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## Aussiest (21 August 2008)

Timmy said:


> Yeah, and the "answer a question with a question" is an old technique.  Not always useful though...




Timmy,

You may be able to help me by clarifying what he was doing in terms of sales techniques:


He kept trying to get me to 'commit', before moving on to the next level. Eg, he would ask me if their returns were 'more' than what i was getting, then when i said yes, he then asked me "so, do you see how we can help you out?". It was like he was using syllogism on me.

As i said before, he wouldn't give up any information without trying to get info out of me first.

And, when i showed resistance, he kind of put me down and said he wouldn't even take my credit card no. if i offered it to him now.

At the end of our convo, he said that when i am ready to work with them, that i should give them a call.

As i said before, i quite 'liked' him. But, his inability to answer any direct questions put me off. Had he have given me the price straight off, i might have subscribed to their newsletter as i quite liked their style, but i am of the opinion that i need to learn for myself, rather than be fed top-down information.


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## shadow123 (21 August 2008)

Been hounded myself plenty of times, i just magically appear on another list.
It's as if these things move in cycles every 3 months i get calls from the SAME people.

Without naming names but the bloke who calls did his name rhyme with BEAN?.....

same strategy was used on me...


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## Timmy (21 August 2008)

I am no expert but a few points:

1. Yes, by getting you to commit or agree with something before moving on then he can present the next step in the process as the logical step given that you have agreed with him on something beforehand.  
Salesman: "We are getting 20% a month, is that better than you are getting?"
You' :"Yes"
Salesman:"So if I could show you how to get 20% a month that would interest you?"
You "Yes"
Salesman: "OK buy our newsletter it gets 20% per month" (obviously this is a simplified example, there are a few more steps).
You: "But (you voice an objection)..."
Salesman: "Didn't you just say you were interested in getting 20% per month/"
You:"Yes"
Salesman:"So, buy our newsletter..." etc.


2. The more info he gives you, the more questions you may well ask and the more objections you may well come up with.  The reason you liked him is he needs you to like him so you will trust him and will buy on that trust rather than on solid info (again, simplified but this is the gist of it).



3. This may be 1 of 2 techniques.
Might be the "take-away" close.  People desire things they are not allowed to have, so he takes it away trying to get you thinking you have missed out on something
Or he may be positioning himself as being in control and you have to chase him for the product.



4. Yeah, and then he pestered you - again the take away, and trying to get the upper hand.




Hope this helps.


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## Aussiest (21 August 2008)

Timmy said:


> 3. This may be 1 of 2 techniques.
> Might be the "take-away" close.  People desire things they are not allowed to have, so he takes it away trying to get you thinking you have missed out on something
> Or he may be positioning himself as being in control and you have to chase him for the product.
> Hope this helps.




Thanks Timmy, it certainly does, esp. the example you gave me about agreeing in increments, so it looks like you are a hypocrit if you object.

A salesperson i once worked with called  his techniqe "FUD: fear, uncertainty and doubt". I thought it was rather funny, but highly unethical!


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