# KISS Trading with Ann



## Ann

Just for fun, I thought I would try for a portfolio of 10 shares/ETFs built up over three months and held until they break through a vital trendline/resistance and get sold. This will all be done manually with IC charts. I will eyeball the charts, draw my support and resistance trendlines and see how we go. I like to chart in the simplest way possible hence the reason I say KISS = Keep it Simple Sweetheart/Stupid! 

I am not here to teach or bang on like an expert, this is just for a bit of fun and not to be taken too seriously, nor is it a recommendation for any stocks selected. If you get something from it...awesome! I will put up my charts and give my reasons for an entry and an exit along the way. My broker (Westpac) has a little window that will show holdings and percentage gain/loss but there will not be any great fancy windows of P&L hence adhering to the concept of keeping it simple! 
I will probably post once a week to see how we are travelling, unless I get bored, sick or if I find it is putting me off my game, then I won't! 
I do have an ulterior motive, I want to improve my close (now adhering to that other wonderful sales hint ABC = Always Be Closing ) and not give back more than I have to, to the market. I just sold six shares (with none in loss) from November 2020 because they broke through a resistance line. I did a tally and only came away with a combined profit of 13.5%, piss poor in my opinion. Let's see if we can improve our trendlines lines and better that!


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## Ann

During this week I chose two stocks one of them was the ETF OOO. I have a fondness for ETFs and I am currently browsing through the catalogue to see what catches my fancy. I am long term bullish for oil. There is one chart shape I just love to see and that is an island bottom. I have had a lot of success with this shape in the past. However on the short term I feel I may suffer a little pain before the pleasure, we will see. I should add I would normally never buy a stock when it is under the 200dsma as well as the 50dsma and under a falling trendline as well. Geez! Other than seeing the island bottom I would have and should have waited but I was in the mood to buy something and I can suck up a bit of minus. Hopefully, it won't turn into a loss! Warts and all folks. If I lose on this one it is because I felt an island bottom trumps all else. Let's see if I am wrong.




The second stock I bought was ORA. The three letters hold a special meaning for me and I have resisted buying this stock for years because of it. However, looking at the monthly chart with EOD I can see the most delicious inverted head and shoulders. I won't be surprised if ORA travels sideways for a while until it reaches that rising support trendline. I also like the way it has recently bounced off the 200dsma. I like to draw all my support and resistance trendlines on EOD (end-of-day) prices as I can get excellent precision. When I chart I like to look at the monthly charts as well as the dailies. Sometimes I can see more that way.




This is the little window doovie with the holdings and the +and - for this week




Those who are interested I hope you will enjoy this journey, please feel free to comment if you would like.


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## qldfrog

Great idea Ann 🙏👍


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## Ann

Ann said:


> I did a tally and only came away with a combined profit of 13.5%, piss poor in my opinion. Let's see if we can improve our trendlines lines and better that!




OK well, this is embarrassing, that 13.5% profit was an error. I have dyslexia and messed up reading the columns, twice!
I should have said 19.8% profit, but I also forgot to add on the dividends I got, so that brings us to 23.48%.

However I am still not confident my calculations are correct even though I have checked them twice, so if anyone is interested in checking my calcs, please let me know if I have stuffed up again.

Here is the info I was working from...




Then the dividends were HVN 165.15 AWC 138.29 AFI 100.80 HACK 192.22 NAB 132.00 ANZ155.40 HVN 220.20
I also got quite a few franking credits but I am not going to add those to the total as it is too much effort. 
My beginning value was $30,000

Then I used the bottom two windows on this calculator to work out the percentage.






						Percentage Calculator
					






					percentagecalculator.net


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## divs4ever

dyslexia isn't an entirely bad thing , but can lead to a lack of self-confidence and paranoia  ( which are not totally bad either  )

 HOWEVER they do seem  to be an impediment to quick trading decisions  ( say day-trading )

 good luck


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## Ann

divs4ever said:


> dyslexia isn't an entirely bad thing , but can lead to a lack of self-confidence and paranoia  ( which are not totally bad either  )
> 
> HOWEVER they do seem  to be an impediment to quick trading decisions  ( say day-trading )
> 
> good luck





I didn't know I had dyslexia until a few years ago. I just thought I was just a dumbfck at school and when I left I wanted to prove to myself that this was not the case, so in turn, it made me into a very high achiever always wanting to improve my performance.  So no I don't lack self-confidence and paranoia is akin to fear and that is an emotion I can't feel.

I have no problem with making quick decisions but day-trading is not where my comfort zone is. I always try to work within my comfort zone with all things.


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## KevinBB

Ann said:


> I should have said 19.8% profit, but I also forgot to add on the dividends I got, so that brings us to 23.48%.



There are quite a few ways of calculating a percentage return, but, in keeping with the sentiment expressed in the thread title, calcs are ok.

I wouldn't try to bring franking credits into the equation, either. Franking credits are just a tax thing, the same way that capital gains tax is just a tax thing. I haven't yet seen anyone bring capital gains tax into their estimates of returns ... so no need to do the same thing with franking credits.

KH


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## Ann

This week I added another stock to my portfolio ABB. It is a youngster but already doing very well. I feel it is in a consolidation phase at the moment and don't feel there will be any rapid rise for a couple of months. 

I should also tell folks where I find my stocks as that is a big part of building a portfolio of course. In this case, I have on my computer lists of IPOs over the years. I manually list them as they float by year such as IPO21 or IPO20 so forth, which is where this comes from. I add stocks as they list and have a quick description of what they do and generally how much their float price was and any incidental info I see. I don't choose stocks that are too young to have the 200dsma as I don't know where they are in space. I review these lists on a regular basis. Just a quick flick through is enough, it isn't very time-consuming.




...and here is the little window doovie


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## divs4ever

Ann said:


> I didn't know I had dyslexia until a few years ago. I just thought I was just a dumbfck at school and when I left I wanted to prove to myself that this was not the case, so in turn, it made me into a very high achiever always wanting to improve my performance.  So no I don't lack self-confidence and paranoia is akin to fear and that is an emotion I can't feel.
> 
> I have no problem with making quick decisions but day-trading is not where my comfort zone is. I always try to work within my comfort zone with all things.



 i chose a different way and just  react  in tense situations  ( in the market that can work well ) in real life my friends now know better than to surprise me 

 i worked out what i had  ( to use and adapt )  when i was young and learned they had a name for it decades later (  they are still guessing on some labels )

  the key to the markets in understand the advantages you have , and resist playing in areas where you are  not so advantaged   , the numbers i have to calculate and decide early  , but patterns can talk to me ( which is probably why i only glance at charts , to get what i need )

  so i mostly just take opportunities ( or side-step them )


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## Ann

No new stocks this week but quite a few things are tempting me and also thinking about re-entering one or two I sold recently.

However, let's talk about ABB, one in this group. I would not be surprised to see a substantial fall back to the 200dsma. It is a risk I was happy enough to take as I was aware I bought in too far away from the 200dsma. I can suck up the pain, I know what is going on. I never lose sleep over missing out on buying cheaper.  Many is the time I have bought something at the supermarket, only to find the next week it goes on special. I regard it as the same thing really. I don't buy more of the product just because it is cheaper, that is surplus to my needs, same applies to stocks, so I don't average down. Not saying I am right or wrong, that is just my preference.




...and a look at the monthly chart shows how $4 is a potential and reasonable level.





...and the running total for this week.


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## divs4ever

Ann said:


> No new stocks this week but quite a few things are tempting me and also thinking about re-entering one or two I sold recently.
> 
> However, let's talk about ABB, one in this group. I would not be surprised to see a substantial fall back to the 200dsma. It is a risk I was happy enough to take as I was aware I bought in too far away from the 200dsma. I can suck up the pain, I know what is going on. I never lose sleep over missing out on buying cheaper.  Many is the time I have bought something at the supermarket, only to find the next week it goes on special. I regard it as the same thing really. I don't buy more of the product just because it is cheaper, that is surplus to my needs, same applies to stocks, so I don't average down. Not saying I am right or wrong, that is just my preference.
> 
> View attachment 134789
> 
> 
> ...and a look at the monthly chart shows how $4 is a potential and reasonable level.
> 
> 
> View attachment 134790
> 
> 
> ...and the running total for this week.
> 
> View attachment 134791



was dithering over ABB as a 'keeper '  ( investment )  ( along with SWP ) has growth potential   , but i worry about regulatory headwinds ( to protect the 'precious NBN ' )

 HOWEVER  will the ( Aussie ) Telcos   be seen  as a 'safe-haven ' substitute   and be pushed higher in the coming month by retail investors

 i would be more likely  to revisit this if that $4 level approached

 but so far am busier watching the TUA investment  ( some acquired by the TPM split and some bought on market ) and wondering if and when i should  take that investment cash off the table  ( i bought on market @ 47cents , i normally trim the holding  by now )

 the main hesitancy is  i already hold more cash than i am comfortable with 

 good luck


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## Ann

divs4ever said:


> i would be more likely to revisit this if that $4 level approached





I reckon $4 is a real chance looking at the chart, especially with the thin Christmas/New Year trading.


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## divs4ever

i was thinking  ABB was more likely to get  buyer  support  and seller reluctance ,  but would be happy ( maybe even over-joyed  ) to be wrong .

 cheers


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## Ann

divs4ever said:


> i was thinking ABB was more likely to get buyer support and seller reluctance but would be happy ( maybe even over-joyed ) to be wrong




The way I interpret buying and selling in low participation times is the buyers want to buy in as cheaply as possible and the holders may be away for the holidays when their stops are triggered at lower and lower levels. There are also people who buy in until a resistance level is broken, then they are out. One resistance level using EOD could be $4.58 and if using Candlesticks or OHLC then it looks like $4.40. This would help it on its journey down.


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## Ann

divs4ever said:


> was dithering over ABB as a 'keeper ' ( investment ) ( along with SWP ) has growth potential




I re-read the above mention about SWP hmm. That has had many, many incarnations over the years and many, many share consolidations which reduce one's holdings massively and many, many stock issues which reduce the value of stocks being held and many trading halts which can tie up capital.
The chart shows this particular stock over the years reached $9873.00. It certainly did not reach that price but that is what happens to a penny stock when they keep doing consolidations. I would class SWP as a nasty stock for anyone planning on holding it for more than a few days.

This is a very long term view from when it was first listed, it is a yucky stock and I don't hold.


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## divs4ever

buyers wanting  to buy cheap  , YEP , that is a much-used plan  by me 

 but i never set stop-losses  , but often use sell( or reduction ) orders at preset prices  ( normally crystallizing profits )

  now good luck if you choose to  go on holidays  with orders left open  ( trailing stop loss  or otherwise ) this  market could turn extremely volatile  at any moment 

 i hope the folks who set the stop-losses understand the risks they take


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## divs4ever

Ann said:


> I re-read the above mention about SWP hmm. That has had many, many incarnations over the years and many, many share consolidations which reduce one's holdings massively and many, many stock issues which reduce the value of stocks being held and many trading halts which can tie up capital.
> The chart shows this particular stock over the years reached $9873.00. It certainly did not reach that price but that is what happens to a penny stock when they keep doing consolidations. I would class SWP as a nasty stock for anyone planning on holding it for more than a few days.
> 
> This is a very long term view from when it was first listed, it is a yucky stock and I don't hold.
> 
> View attachment 134795



 i don't hold either ( ABB and SWP ) but i am looking  for possibles in the future  , and the Telecommunications sector  does have potential  and risks  ( unlike , say  'department stores ' )

  now a great business  can suffer greatly from a management   change  , and ( less often ) a tragic business  can be turned around by ambitious dynamic   management  ( maybe SWP can grab some superior execs  via it's acquisition  campaign of minnows  )

 for a comparison let's throw  in a 'flea-bag ' ( that i hold ) HIL  grabbed a big  name in the Telco game  , and still manged to stumble some more  and back to 'the old days '  of no longer being considered a 'Telco player'


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## Ann

divs4ever said:


> now a great business can suffer greatly from a management change , and ( less often ) a tragic business can be turned around by ambitious dynamic management ( maybe SWP can grab some superior execs via it's acquisition campaign of minnows )




Highly unlikely there would be any 'superior execs' willing to be associated with a long term pump and dump like this wash, rinse and recycled company, which is what SWP is. Granted a smart trader could make a few bob out of SWP but you would want to be well clear of any trading halts, capital raisings or consolidations.


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## divs4ever

Ann said:


> Highly unlikely there would be any 'superior execs' willing to be associated with a long term pump and dump like this wash, rinse and recycled company, which is what SWP is. Granted a smart trader could make a few bob out of SWP but you would want to be well clear of any trading halts, capital raisings or consolidations.



 i agree in general  , and have learned to be suspicious   when a small under-performer hires a 'high-profile ' exec. , but investing is also about spotting the actual opportunity  as well .

 i have held TLS for several  years before selling recently ,  i still hold TPM ( now TPG ) , and am an unhappy Optus  customer  , given those three now dominate the sector , i see room for a well-run  upstart  to grab some market share  , now that upstart  might not be ABB or SWP  but the smaller investor with some time on their side  would do well to look at the sector from time-to-time  and see if anyone is worthy of a small investment  this time .

 i also hold TUA , and SPK  , and had a very nice run in CNU  ( before selling  after the company made some changes i didn't like ) the bulk of my telco  portfolio is outside Australia  , so  am looking and watching for someone worth a dabble in the Australian market  ( i suspect TPG without David Teoh will lose the driving force it one had , but rescued that investment cash a few years back  )


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## sptrawler

@divs4ever I personally think the telco sector is one of the hardest sectors to do business in, a bit like the electrical power sector, a semi public service so highly regulated.
Telstra has shown how difficult it is , they still are no where near their final tranche float price and that is with a huge taxpayer injection through the NBN.
As I said only my personal opinion, but when all the competitors are selling the same product, it makes it hard for them to sell themselves other than on price, which ends up eating into their profits. Its just not a sector I can get excited about.
Just my opinion.


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## Ann

divs4ever said:


> i agree in general , and have learned to be suspicious when a small under-performer hires a 'high-profile ' exec. , but investing is also about spotting the actual opportunity as well .




One always needs to assess if a company is 'investment grade'.  When I was a young and beeuutiful lass, I would assess a bloke as in is he a long-termer, a mid-range squeeze or just good for a quick slap and tickle? This is what I do with stocks as well.

As far as TLS is concerned, I hold but I can see TLS is more your mid-range squeeze. I did a swing trade calc on it and have assessed a price and put a for-sale-sign out on it. There is a very long term falling overhead-trendline coming up shortly and it pretty much matched the swing trade calc. I think that is as far as it will go and have priced it for sale just under that line. If I am wrong, then nothing lost, I can go back in if it succeeds to maintain a level above the falling trendline. I doubt it though, I reckon it is headed in the same direction as AGL and all the other shorted-to-death stocks.


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## divs4ever

sptrawler said:


> @divs4ever I personally think the telco sector is one of the hardest sectors to do business in, a bit like the electrical power sector, a semi public service so highly regulated.
> Telstra has shown how difficult it is , they still are no where near their final tranche float price and that is with a huge taxpayer injection through the NBN.
> As I said only my personal opinion, but when all the competitors are selling the same product, it makes it hard for them to sell themselves other than on price, which ends up eating into their profits. Its just not a sector I can get excited about.
> Just my opinion.



 one factor that makes the Australian sector hard is the Australian Government  keeps taking a slab of the steak ( from the cash-cow ) via selling  wireless broadband spectrum  , whilst dirtying the pool with the NBN

 ' excited in '   , no i am not ' excited' in it currently  i did well overall in REF ,  struggled to crystallize a profit  in TLS , did nicely in TPM  when David Teoh was running it ( seems to be losing  momentum now   .. i bought TPM @ $1.40 ) , HOWEVER  i do see  gaps that a clever , well-run player   could expand into  ( but does Australia have a management them  left that will want to negotiate the regulatory landscape  as it currently exists . )

 but i should be parking more cash WISELY  so am  looking , looking and thinking  , ( in sectors and niches both big and small ) and this has previously been a great period to pick up a handful of small caps and micro-caps  ( small investments in  a thinly traded market )


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## Ann

divs4ever said:


> HOWEVER i do see gaps that a clever , well-run player could expand into ( but does Australia have a management them left that will want to negotiate the regulatory landscape as it currently exists . )




Well, for what this is worth, when I was assessing the chart for ABB in preparation for buying it, my son who is an IT programmer/coder of clever stuff I can't understand, like doing stuff for the defence department, wandered in to home, saw what I was looking at and said it was a really excellent company but with limitations. I looked at him like WTF would you know about it....he said, "that is all part of what I do". OK, I said tell me about it. He said he felt its customer service was going to fall over as they were getting so big. Right I said, they just took over OTW would that make a difference...?  Certainly looks like that may be the answer, he said.

That was not a deciding factor as I only buy from what I see on the chart but it made me feel quite comfy about it.


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## divs4ever

Ann said:


> One always needs to assess if a company is 'investment grade'.  When I was a young and beeuutiful lass, I would assess a bloke as in is he a long-termer, a mid-range squeeze or just good for a quick slap and tickle? This is what I do with stocks as well.
> 
> As far as TLS is concerned, I hold but I can see TLS is more your mid-range squeeze. I did a swing trade calc on it and have assessed a price and put a for-sale-sign out on it. There is a very long term falling overhead-trendline coming up shortly and it pretty much matched the swing trade calc. I think that is as far as it will go and have priced it for sale just under that line. If I am wrong, then nothing lost, I can go back in if it succeeds to maintain a level above the falling trendline. I doubt it though, I reckon it is headed in the same direction as AGL and all the other shorted-to-death stocks.
> 
> View attachment 134807



 LOL

 not me  ,  i noticed the females  were choosing elsewhere  , and discovered hobbies and sports   ,  and nicely side-stepped many complications  ( i can revisit  old hobbies  , and stuff   without any big jealousy  flare-up  , for instance  my guitars never seem to complain if i pick up a bass , or keyboard   , although some of the computer servers might whine a bit   when started up )

 TLS promised too much , and delivered too little  for me  , maybe i will revisit in the future but i suspect the corporate culture there won't change enough to lure me back ( had uncles and aunts that worked there when it was PMG and Telecom  .. the name has changed  but not the bureaucratic heart )

 but several  large cap ASX listed companies  look like going into a long dark lane-way  ( ORG does not seem to be shining brightly  either )

 with the take-overs of SKI and AST the sector might be worth  watching though  , but after the AST take-over completes  , the NZ companies ( CEN , GNE , MCY  and MEZ ) are my major utility plays  , i doubt CCE will ever rise above being  a R&D money-pit ( in my lifetime )


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## divs4ever

Ann said:


> Well, for what this is worth, when I was assessing the chart for ABB in preparation for buying it, my son who is an IT programmer/coder of clever stuff I can't understand, like doing stuff for the defence department, wandered in to home, saw what I was looking at and said it was a really excellent company but with limitations. I looked at him like WTF would you know about it....he said, "that is all part of what I do". OK, I said tell me about it. He said he felt its customer service was going to fall over as they were getting so big. Right I said, they just took over OTW would that make a difference...?  Certainly looks like that may be the answer, he said.
> 
> That was not a deciding factor as I only buy from what I see on the chart but it made me feel quite comfy about it.





 i might just be me  , but customer service seems to be  a fairly low hurdle in telcos  ( and bigger utility companies )

 but i rarely buy a stock with the INTENTION  of a short hold time  ( although some like ART  , for example  , make a choice i would rather not be a partner in  ,  so jump , quickly , especially if in profit )

will be glancing at ABB from time-to-time  but not so certain i will be parking  cash there


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## Ann

I was not around this week so nothing new, plenty tempting me so perhaps next week will see some more additions.

Currently, Westpac trading is down, guess they are taking the opportunity to blow some dust out of the servers. Hopefully later today or perhaps tomorrow I will put up the little window doovie. However, all are doing OK, so far.

In the meantime let's look at how OOO is going following its 'island bottom' pattern. This is such a favourite pattern of mine, my greedy juices start to flow when I see one. As with all chart patterns it can fail to deliver, I am yet to have a failure with this pattern.




Let's talk a bit more about this shape. If you use EOD charts you just won't see an island bottom/top pattern of course and if you use OHLC you are highly unlikely to see it as the gap appears closed. Using candlesticks makes ignoring the 'noise shadows' a lot easier and an island bottom is much easier to spot. It is so worth finding this chart shape!

This is the same chart just with using OHLC, I would be challenged to find this shape using OHLC kindling!


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## Country Lad

Ann said:


> Currently, Westpac trading is down, guess they are taking the opportunity to blow some dust out of the servers.



I have been with Westpac for some time but enough is enough. I have switched to Nabtrade for a few reasons:

WP Trader Pro has too much downtime due to Java problems;
I have felt guilty  using the complimentary Viewpoint from my full time broker while trading mainly on WP online;
the NAB resources are far better than those on WP;
NAB has Viewpoint which does not rely on Java and I can use on other platforms
so now I can have a good look at your OOO.


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## divs4ever

Ann said:


> Currently, Westpac trading is down, guess they are taking the opportunity to blow some dust out of the servers. Hopefully later today or perhaps tomorrow I will put up the little window doovie. However, all are doing OK, so far.



 sorry but i don't do that anymore  , they went with different sub-contractors  , and i am retired ( so i can't tell you if your theory is correct )

 pay peanuts and they get monkeys 

 but good luck with your trading/investing 

 PS  for Country Lad   , i never  sub-contracted for NAB  , but a different rival had ideas that raised an eyebrow ( and that wasn't MQG , i subbed there as well )


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## Ann

Country Lad said:


> I have been with Westpac for some time but enough is enough. I have switched to Nabtrade for a few reasons:
> 
> WP Trader Pro has too much downtime due to Java problems;
> I have felt guilty  using the complimentary Viewpoint from my full time broker while trading mainly on WP online;
> the NAB resources are far better than those on WP;
> NAB has Viewpoint which does not rely on Java and I can use on other platforms
> so now I can have a good look at your OOO.




Thanks for the advice Country Lad, however it is a Superannuation Account and all the messing around to change to another banking system is simply a nightmare, with all the form filling and paperwork associated with it. I will just suck it up. It has never caused any problems when I have been trading. It only very occasionally impacts when I am doing a bit of research or wanting to download my window doovie thingo.  

I only need the basics and that is what you get from Wespac but then I prefer to keep all things in my life as simple and minimal as possible, so it works for me. Plus I had the feeling on Friday afternoon I should screen print the window, so it is my fault for not doing so.


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## Ann

Let's talk a bit more about the Island Bottom pattern. This is not a rare or unheard of pattern, no doubt many chartists have made money from this. I have been fortunate that it has always done what I hoped it would. Now today as I was browsing through the charts, as I do, just for fun, I was shocked when I looked at the APT chart. I counted no less than five Island Bottom patterns over a six month period. All but the first two failed to give a return and those first two were only fairly minimal successes. So here is a very good example of Island Bottom patterns failing. The IB pattern was quite clear regardless of whether you used candlesticks or OHLC.

EDIT: Don't hold.


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## Ann

Added a new one this week AKE. Disappointing trade on a couple of levels, first I arrived home on Friday 31 Dec and put a bid against AKE at 3.50pm for $10.40 which was quoted as the current trading price. Nothing happened! Bloody market closed early, didn't it? I like a dumfk didn't give an early close a thought prior to placing my bid. I had been home for about an hour before I went to the market, which compounded the irritation.

I thought stuff it,  I will pull the bid down over the weekend, no, Westpac Trading was down, so I couldn't lift it. Monday came and I still couldn't access the site until after the market opened. Did I pull the trade out then? No! I bloody traded on a Monday, I hate trading on a Monday, it is when all the weekend warriors have got themselves all excited and pushed up prices. I know better, so smacked myself for the rest of the week.

Anyway, why did I want to buy it? It appears that Lithium may have a bit more upside. It is a stock held by the US ETF LIT, so there is international attention. Then there is the chart itself, when I got home I noticed while I was away it had broken out of its sideways consolidation with a degree of energy and had maintained its position. It may fall back a bit to test the $10 or $10.50 level. Not something I would mind particularly. There are a few support lines both trending and horizontal. Let's see how it goes.

I see ABB made an effort at the $4 level during the week as we suspected it might, there still may be a chance it will try again. Let's see.




I am still working to get the pretty graph up, perhaps next week? In the meantime, I took a screenshot of the Westpac Doovie window.


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## KevinBB

Ann said:


> No! I bloody traded on a Monday, I hate trading on a Monday, it is when all the weekend warriors have got themselves all excited and pushed up prices. I know better, so smacked myself for the rest of the week.



I long held the same view, that the Weekend Warriors as you call them would work out orders over the weekend, then place their bids at 2-3 percent above last close (for buy orders) just to make sure they were filled. My view extended to the rest of the week, where I thought end of day traders would get home from work, and place their orders so that they would be filled at the next open, again at 2-3 percent above last close.

My view was reinforced by all the terrible fills I would get if I traded at the open. Too many to talk about. Only to see the price return to normality after about 30 or 60 minutes or so.

However, I was sadly mistaken. I tried to model this phenomenon and the obvious alternative, which is placing the same order at the day's close instead of the open. Each time I did so, placing an order at the open came out on top.

Another theory bit the dust.

You're right, it may be just a Monday thing, and next time I have a clear head I'll restrict the test to the Monday open, and see how that goes.

Maybe I think too short term. Yes, they are bad fills at the open, but after a few days or weeks the stock is either sold or the fill is forgotten.

KH


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## Ann

KevinBB said:


> Maybe I think too short term. Yes, they are bad fills at the open, but after a few days or weeks the stock is either sold or the fill is forgotten.



A long time ago, I gave up trying to either buy at the bottom or the top. If I am in the mood to buy and the price looks OK on the chart, I poke go. More often than not a day or two after, the price goes lower. I really couldn't give a toss as I have bought on a chart shape where I felt there was a potential upside, so if I have to suck up a bit of pain, so be it. I just can't be bothered obsessing. 

As far as the best day or time to buy, I doubt there is one but on Mondays and lunchtimes, I can feel the irrationality of the crowd and I don't like the feeling. I like to trade either mid morning or mid afternoon. I like the feel of Friday afternoon as well.


----------



## Ann

I bought a lot of stocks this week, so trying to put them all up on Sunday would do my head in so I will post up a couple each day.
This first stock AWC is a re-entry. I am happy with this trade on a couple of levels in that I sold when I decided to sell at a stop loss level. All my trades are manual, I never use an auto stop. Then I have been waiting for a re-entry at a given point, which I did, as illustrated on the chart. This is one of the stocks that has made me decide I need to improve my trading. I gave good money back to the market by holding onto this stock much longer than I should.  I feel if I had been riding this with a faster/higher rising support and once broken down after consolidation level, exit the thing. This is what I will be trying to do going forward. I won't put up a chart of how I thought I should trade the stock because I always think backtesting is sheer bullsht. This is why I am attempting to chart forward on this thread.

Talking about charting forward, I am thinking anyone who wanted to hop into ABB cheaper may have missed their chance. I think it made a valiant attempt at touching the 200dsma but didn't quite make it. I am happy enough that was a good enough 200dsma bounce for that extra vim and vigour for a rise.


----------



## Ann

The next one is CKF. I found this on a list of holdings of VHY back in 2020. The chart didn't inspire me, it looked like it was in a consolidation phase, I was after a bit of growth along with some divies back then. The next time I looked back in June '21 it looked like a bit of a bubble too far from the 200dsma. Recently I looked at it again and I see it plummeting back toward the 200dsma and the rising support line from mid March '21. So far it has displayed higher lows and higher highs, works for me I thought, so worked out a price I wanted to bid $12.05 just above the rising support and 200dsma. Later in the afternoon, it filled. Good, I thought, then I saw the news reports about KFC having supply chain problems and not having a full menu. Awesome I thought, here comes d'pain. It may well fall to the pivot level of $11.00. Tuff, I will just suck it up, it will pay me some rent with its divie while I wait for a recovery.

Although perhaps it will hold the 200dsma, let's see. 

I should add this is one of your Warren Buffet sort of stocks for me, in as much as I like the product very much as it is the most protein intensive T/A food, too much starch makes me really crook, so having KFC is a really tasty treat which does no harm.


----------



## Stockbailx

Hi Ann, appreciate what your doing, and good to see that your stocks are improving, but can I please suggest a 30 weekly ema moving average. i find that stock moving above this line should be considered Bullish. Stocks below at a loss. This is probable as a long term position and i thought it may be something you would like to try as a support base line.
Anyway keep up the good work, I wish you all the best.


----------



## Ann

Stockybailz said:


> Hi Ann, appreciate what your doing, and good to see that your stocks are improving, but can I please suggest a 30 weekly ema moving average. i find that stock moving above this line should be considered Bullish. Stocks below at a loss. This is probable as a long term position and i thought it may be something you would like to try as a support base line.
> Anyway keep up the good work, I wish you all the best.



Stockybailz, thank you very much for offering a suggestion, I love looking at new things and it may well have been something I had not considered, so I really appreciate your comment. 

Way back in about 2003 I found a book that made all the difference to my understanding of charts and charting. It was one of those 'AHA' moments as I read the book. It was of course Stan Weinstein's 'Secrets for Profiting in Bull and Bear Markets'.
He used to look at weekly charts using 10 and 30 wk moving averages. He gave a very simple way to calculate his MAs.
Getting out my Bull/Bear book (I still like to browse this every so often) he describes how to calculate it....
"A 30-week MA is simply the closing price for this Friday night added to the prior 29 Friday weekly closings. Divide that figure by 30 and the answer is what's plotted on this week's chart." So this is the calculation for a simple moving average whereas according to my wonderful book "Encyclopedia of Technical Market Indicators" by Robert w. Colby to calculate an EMA all you do is ....
"The EMA requires numerical values for only two data periods: the most recently available raw data and the immediate past  period's EMA."

As all this stuff had to be individually calculated for every chart every week back then, one would think the EMA would be easier to calculate. However, I guess he preferred the SMA.
For years I have had the 30wsma and the 10wsma on my weekly charts. I have put up the 30wema just as a comparison but really the difference is negligible. I find the price does not ride the 30wma as well as it rides the 200dsma. The 30wma of both simple and ema give false flags of a fail. Over the years I have found the 200dsma to be where the best reactions occur as well.

Having said that, I really don't think it matters a whole lot which MAs one uses. It is only an indicator after all. I played around with Fibonacci numbers for a while. I use the 50 and 200dsma because that is what is set as standard on Stockcharts, so I am just trying to stay within the herd.





And for those interested in the two books I mentioned...









						The Encyclopedia of Technical Market Indicators
					

The Encyclopedia of Technical Market Indicators by Robert W. Colby  This new edition offers an accumulated treasury of nearly all known technical market indicators, including many new ones and better ways to use long-established ones. It offers precise formulas, performance over all available...




					store.stockcharts.com
				












						Stan Weinstein's Secrets for Profiting in Bull and Bear Markets
					

Buy Stan Weinstein's Secrets for Profiting in Bull and Bear Markets by Stan Weinstein, PaperBack format, from the Dymocks online bookstore.




					www.dymocks.com.au


----------



## Stockbailx

Ann said:


> Stockybailz, thank you very much for offering a suggestion, I love looking at new things and it may well have been something I had not considered, so I really appreciate your comment.



Ann thanks for the heads up, appreciate it. Good to see you are well accomplished in your trading. Got me thinking, I should consider reading those books. I'm sure others reading this thread would be more then interested. Thanks again. (Insight to technical chart trading)


----------



## Ann

Stockybailz said:


> Ann thanks for the heads up, appreciate it. Good to see you are well accomplished in your trading. Got me thinking, I should consider reading those books. I'm sure others reading this thread would be more then interested. Thanks again. (Insight to technical chart trading)



...and I appreciate your contribution, who knows how many people are now going to look at the 30wema, and possibly Weinstein, awesome! Please come back any time.❤️


----------



## tech/a

Ann said:


> The next one is CKF. I found this on a list of holdings of VHY back in 2020. The chart didn't inspire me, it looked like it was in a consolidation phase, I was after a bit of growth along with some divies back then. The next time I looked back in June '21 it looked like a bit of a bubble too far from the 200dsma. Recently I looked at it again and I see it plummeting back toward the 200dsma and the rising support line from mid March '21. So far it has displayed higher lows and higher highs, works for me I thought, so worked out a price I wanted to bid $12.05 just above the rising support and 200dsma. Later in the afternoon, it filled. Good, I thought, then I saw the news reports about KFC having supply chain problems and not having a full menu. Awesome I thought, here comes d'pain. It may well fall to the pivot level of $11.00. Tuff, I will just suck it up, it will pay me some rent with its divie while I wait for a recovery.
> 
> Although perhaps it will hold the 200dsma, let's see.
> 
> I should add this is one of your Warren Buffet sort of stocks for me, in as much as I like the product very much as it is the most protein intensive T/A food, too much starch makes me really crook, so having KFC is a really tasty treat which does no harm.
> 
> View attachment 135689




for what it’s worth I think this is a terrible trade on many levels 
Just not a trade I’d be interested in 
many many more high potential trades 
BRN CXO to name a couple.
a 200 M/A is just an average of numbers means bugger all.


----------



## Sean K

tech/a said:


> for what it’s worth I think this is a terrible trade on many levels
> Just not a trade I’d be interested in
> many many more high potential trades
> BRN CXO to name a couple.
> a 200 M/A is just an average of numbers means bugger all.




Welcome back.


----------



## DaveTrade

tech/a said:


> a 200 M/A is just an average of numbers means bugger all.



tech it's more than that to institutional traders.


----------



## tech/a

Sean K said:


> Welcome back.




thanks I didn’t know iId been anywhere


DaveTrade said:


> tech it's more than that to institutional traders.



Oh
I’m afraid support from institutional investors isn’t a buy signal for me. About as profitable as buying a 200 M/A

just take a look at the last 12 mths it’s only traded over $12 for half of that time 
With a max price about 25% higher with no indication (yet) that it’s going to test the latest high 
To me pretty Ho hum and right now why would you buy it—- technically 
but let’s watch it 

FMG became a great buy from a bad prospect ( technically )  Take a look at the thread if interested.


----------



## DaveTrade

tech/a said:


> thanks I didn’t know iId been anywhere
> 
> Oh
> I’m afraid support from institutional investors isn’t a buy signal for me. About as profitable as buying a 200 M/A
> 
> just take a look at the last 12 mths it’s only traded over $12 for half of that time
> With a max price about 25% higher with no indication (yet) that it’s going to test the latest high
> To me pretty Ho hum and right now why would you buy it—- technically
> but let’s watch it
> 
> FMG became a great buy from a bad prospect ( technically )  Take a look at the thread if interested.



Tech my comment was not about the stock, I don't trade Australian markets.


----------



## Ann

tech/a said:


> for what it’s worth I think this is a terrible trade on many levels
> Just not a trade I’d be interested in
> many many more high potential trades
> BRN CXO to name a couple.
> a 200 M/A is just an average of numbers means bugger all.



You may very well be right about CKF John, time will tell. 
I really doubt CKF will ever achieve a viagrafic erection anywhere like either BRN or CXO!   

I like the look of CXO, I will mark the chart with a Tech/a recommendation, thanks! I will keep an eye open for a retrace entrance, I need another lit stock. 
The 200ma is just a line in the sand. It is up to each of us to create a framework of limitations both in life and on the charts. As I keep saying to folks, if it works for you, good....if not then don't! 

Thanks for your comments and contribution, most appreciated!


----------



## tech/a

Many Newbies are drawn to threads like these 
Particularly when implying a KISS type methodology 

I guess an explanation that stock trading over a 200 M/A is generally moving up 
Which in keeping with KISS you want to buy stock moving up 
The M/A alone is nothing reactive


----------



## Ann

tech/a said:


> I guess an explanation that stock trading over a 200 M/A is generally moving up
> Which in keeping with KISS you want to buy stock moving up
> The M/A alone is nothing reactive



If your stock falls below the 200ma then it may cause a trader/investor to react. Over the last 20 years, I have managed to keep clear of any major market falls by simply exiting a stock if it maintains a price below 200dma. If it lifts back up over at a given point be it the 200ma or a support/resistance line then nothing to stop you from moving back in after it shows a rising curve. Not to be confused with a sideways consolidation period which would cause the price to oscillate around the MA and go nowhere for a period.

My KISS philosophy should not be confused with an 'easy way' to trade.  It is me demonstrating how I buy in or sell a stock using the most basic and simple chart indicators of two MAs and three trendlines moving up, down or across and the price level. I have practised this for 20 years on almost a daily basis, it is _not_ easy! The 200dsma is also not a strict rule. If CKF falls below the 200dsma I have drawn a support line of $11 which is a point where the price has been used as a pivot point of support and resistance over a reasonable while, which suggests a level of strength. If CKF fails this $11 support line that will be my signal to exit. I would be in serious minus at the $11 mark but this stock will pay me 'rent' (dividend) for my money while I wait for it to rise again, better interest than any term deposit.

Having said that, I do have a set of indicators strapped to the bottom of my chart I glance at occasionally. They can be a handy reference but it is the chart and its few contents on which I focus.

Here is my current list of indicators, some I keep always like the PVI, MACD and Twiggs Money Flow. The rest come and go as I please.


----------



## Ann

tech/a said:


> just take a look at the last 12 mths it’s only traded over $12 for half of that time
> With a max price about 25% higher with no indication (yet) that it’s going to test the latest high
> To me pretty Ho hum and right now why would you buy it—- technically
> but let’s watch it



Yes, it has certainly been travelling in a sideways consolidation showing a gradual rise as evident by the 200dsma since about March '21. I find the longer the consolidation period, the better the breakout generally. Once this bounces off the 200dsma (if it does) then I always feel this gives a stock a bit of energy for a reasonable rise.

Once CKF can rise above its $14 level it is all blue skies, this stock does not have a long term falling trendline or other highs to smash down on top of the price at some future date. So one could say, the sky is the limit! 

One indicator I really like and have used forever is the PVI or as I call it, the 'prat meter'. It is supposed to be what the dumb money is doing. I have found over the years the dumb money is a pretty good indicator of general market sentiment. 

I can see on the PVI overall CKF has pretty good market sentiment, so far.




(damn, I wish I hadn't already prepared dinner, I want KFC!)


----------



## tech/a

I concur with the 200 M/A I used it on techtrader and kept the system out of the 2007/8 crash

I be still use a modified for of T/T today for longer term trading

for Short term I don’t use any indicators
Only Volume, Gaps. Support and resistance, Price, Control zones in price and Volume 

pretty simplistic


----------



## Stockbailx

Ann said:


> Once CKF can rise above its $14 level it is all blue skies, this stock does not have a long term falling trendline or other highs to smash down on top of the price at some future date. So one could say, the sky is the limit!



I'm not real sure about what's going on. But Ann, how could you trade a stock at such a loss. Sure its activity has hit your support of 50ma, but who's to say it will bounce back to $14. I'm shocked at your impression. A fun trade indeed. i see you take the gamble that its exhausted at $12. I still say a 30wk m/a should be on order. i'm sorry to see your trade, what are the fundamentals...Don't you get frustrated...Interesting to see your philosophy go to work? You will be lucky to get 10%?


----------



## Sean K

The moving average concept is important. I generally use either 20 or 50, because I'm a shorter term trader/investor. But even so, after some time watching charts, I know where those levels are generally going to be, but I still use it as a reference of course. Most of the charts I past up have 50 and maybe 200d ma for mums and dad stocks or indexes. I now just trade support and resistance lines in stocks that have my own perceived value, until they're fully valued, or have overshot. Unfortunately, I've been on the sidelines of the tulip-lithium bubble going on at the moment because I look at fundamentals first and then trade the chart. Most of the lithium things pinging have zero intrinsic value and it's 100% speculation.


----------



## sptrawler

Sean K said:


> The moving average concept is important. I generally use either 20 or 50, because I'm a shorter term trader/investor. But even so, after some time watching charts, I know where those levels are generally going to be, but I still use it as a reference of course. Most of the charts I past up have 50 and maybe 200d ma for mums and dad stocks or indexes. I now just trade support and resistance lines in stocks that have my own perceived value, until they're fully valued, or have overshot. Unfortunately, I've been on the sidelines of the tulip-lithium bubble going on at the moment because I look at fundamentals first and then trade the chart. Most of the lithium things pinging have zero intrinsic value and it's 100% speculation.



That is the interesting thing with investing, there is no one size fits all, everyone is at different stages in life, has a different risk tolerance, has a different amount of money they are prepared to risk, may be investing as their only income rather than as a hobby, may be living off the dividends, so many variables.
When I was working losing $20k meant very little, now that my only income is from my investments and I have zero chance of gaining employment, $20k takes on a whole new meaning.


----------



## tech/a

Sean K said:


> The moving average concept is important. I generally use either 20 or 50, because I'm a shorter term trader/investor. But even so, after some time watching charts, I know where those levels are generally going to be, but I still use it as a reference of course. Most of the charts I past up have 50 and maybe 200d ma for mums and dad stocks or indexes. I now just trade support and resistance lines in stocks that have my own perceived value, until they're fully valued, or have overshot. Unfortunately, I've been on the sidelines of the tulip-lithium bubble going on at the moment because I look at fundamentals first and then trade the chart. Most of the lithium things pinging have zero intrinsic value and it's 100% speculat




Another reason why I just trade the chart.
Opportunities don’t give you a week analyse
Often the best defy All logic.
price will tell you and you only need 1:10 with sound Risk management


----------



## Sean K

tech/a said:


> Another reason why I just trade the chart.
> Opportunities don’t give you a week analyse
> Often the best defy All logic.
> price will tell you and you only need 1:10 with sound Risk management




Yeah, I used to do both, but found my niche. I could go back to intra-day trading charts now I'm retired and sitting in front of the screen all day, but it doesn't suit my psychology. So, each to their own with how you invest and trade. There are many ways to skin a cat.


----------



## tech/a

There certainly is 
You just need to find 
The cats and not the dogs!!


----------



## frugal.rock

Alright you lot,its intermission time.
😻


----------



## tech/a

It can be this simple.



tech/a said:


> POP
> 
> There's your sign!!!
> 
> Even grabbed a few myself








__





						FMG - Fortescue Metals
					

I'm getting interested here as well: Near previous ATH which should provide some support, 0.5 and 0.618 fibs line up around here depending on which base you start from.   Yes it seems to have settled and if there is a drop, I wouldn't expect it to be too far and then could average.




					www.aussiestockforums.com


----------



## sptrawler

frugal.rock said:


> Alright you lot,its intermission time.
> 😻



Yes it looks like @Ann thread is getting highjacked. Lol


----------



## Stockbailx

Ann said:


> Once CKF can rise above its $14 level it is all blue skies, this stock does not have a long term falling trendline or other highs to smash down on top of the price at some future date. So one could say, the sky is the limit!



I stand mistakin. Took the liberty of looking at a summery of Collins Foods Limited (CKF) is a KFC and Taco Bell franchisee in Australia and KFC franchisee in the Netherlands and Germany, the owner of Sizzler restaurants in Australia. CKF operated 240 franchised KFC restaurants in Australia, 17 franchised KFC restaurants in Germany, 23 franchised KFC restaurants in the Netherlands and 12 franchised Taco Bell restaurant in Australia, which all compete in the quick service restaurant market. The Group owns and operates nine Sizzler restaurants in Australia, which compete in the casual dining restaurant market. It is also a franchisor of the Sizzler brand in South East Asia, with 75 franchised stores predominantly in Thailand, but also in China and Japan.

I don't see any reason why it wouldn't bounce back to $14. Unless they are having certain complications, and a continued falling momentum defaults  current trend. But as you say Ann its at 50m/a considered a breaking point of support and 200m/a as consolidation it appears in good stead to advance.

I couple of things to consider are what is the impact that the covid 19 is having and I understand that sizzler restaurants in Australia are closing down, I don't know about the rest of its constituency. But all the best...


----------



## tech/a

tech/a said:


> It can be this simple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FMG - Fortescue Metals
> 
> 
> I'm getting interested here as well: Near previous ATH which should provide some support, 0.5 and 0.618 fibs line up around here depending on which base you start from.   Yes it seems to have settled and if there is a drop, I wouldn't expect it to be too far and then could average.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aussiestockforums.com





Ok I get the right cross.
Ill foook off


----------



## Ann

Sorry folks, no time to chat today, shall return shortly and catch up, in the meantime a couple more stocks added to the two I bought this week, I had intended to be buying more but got caught up with other stuff. Nothing that can't wait.

First is SMR, found this on my research for coalers some time ago, saw it was taking over BHP coal interests, felt it may join the coal establishment. It is very volatile currently so I am expecting to have to ride this like a bucking bronco. I would rather be tossed around than chase it if and when it breaks loose, it feels like a tightly wound spring. As always with my stocks I pull back for a full view of its listed chart history and what do I see on the 15-year setting? A wonderful very, very long term Cup & Handle pattern formation. So @Sean K, it is not only gold that is displaying this deliciously bullish pattern, but black gold as well! 




The other stock I bought is actually a rule breaker for me. It is only a tiny baby on the charts which still is not old enough for a 200dsm these I would normally never buy.  However Best and Less has been around for a long time, they have baby clothes and womens' clothing well into the plus sizes. They don't have special designs for the bigger ladies, they just enlarge the pattern. I think this is an excellent idea as skinny lady clothes always look like prettier designs, so now the big lady can indulge in the same styles.  There is much more to the company than this of course.

My chart explains what I am seeing there. I may have to sit out a consolidation period as it has had a good run, it could also fall back into the lower channel of $3.80/$4.20 as well, that's OK with me, I think there is a deal more upside for BST to come. No doubt it will be added to the 300 index pretty quickly and I think they are planning a divie, so happy with all that.





Now to this weeks Doovie window...


----------



## Ann

tech/a said:


> FMG became a great buy from a bad prospect ( technically ) Take a look at the thread if interested.



Come on John! It was a bloody awesome prospect technically. I was about to enter before I got sidetracked by you back in the day and lost concentration, we were in deep discussion technically, I was desperately trying to convince you of its technical merits. In the meantime I missed a dream trade, never did enter FMG, my fault I should have just told you back then to fook orf but fool that I am I tried really hard to make you see what I could see on the chart!

Here are a couple of my charts from back then. Higher lows, higher highs, it was actually a technical dream, for me anyway.  Do I mourn the lost trade or even care? Nup! Like blokes, plenty more where they came from!


----------



## Ann

tech/a said:


> Ok I get the right cross.
> Ill foook off



Nooooooooooo! 😭


----------



## divs4ever

Ann said:


> Nooooooooooo! 😭



 since FMG is hovering  around $20.80  currently   ,   are you keeping the eye on the stock

 ( a little high  for a top-up for me  , but going in the right direction )


----------



## Ann

Stockybailz said:


> I'm not real sure about what's going on. But Ann, how could you trade a stock at such a loss. Sure its activity has hit your support of 50ma, but who's to say it will bounce back to $14. I'm shocked at your impression. A fun trade indeed. i see you take the gamble that its exhausted at $12. I still say a 30wk m/a should be on order. i'm sorry to see your trade, what are the fundamentals...Don't you get frustrated...Interesting to see your philosophy go to work? You will be lucky to get 10%?




I have no problem sucking up the pain of a stock trading at a lower price than my purchase price, as long as it remains within my parameters of toleration.

I don't use the 50dsma other than for a golden cross signal. Although when I was discussing FMG with @Skate over on his Dump It Here thread recently it got me thinking now I am retired and have more time on my hands, I may look at shorter-term trades using the 50dsma as an entry signal and possibly use the 200dsma as a potential exit. Not sure if I want to do that yet. Recently AGL would have been a cracker using the 50dsma as an entry signal but I am still in the long term investor mindset. I am waiting to see if AGL falls back and begins to range trade, if that happens it could be a long and tiresome wait, may not as well, it may turn out to be an awesome trade I missed, meh!

I see CKF as a failed trade if it fails $11 not $12

I added the 30wema (green line) to the daily chart for your interest. I find it is moving too quickly as an indicator for an entrance, there would be mucho pain waiting for it to find its support level if bought in at the price cross level of the 30wema and it is also running too far away from my drawn rising support. So, no not for me. But if it works for you then I would be the first to encourage its use. It is a very personal thing. 

I do very little on the fundamental side. I look at what it does, I look at its net profit and turnover and I glance back over the notices for a few months, look at who the major shareholders are but that is about it. I do very little fundamental analysis other than those things.

I never get frustrated, I love business and companies and charting. It is a never-ending source of fascination and has been since I was about eleven or twelve and read John Galbraith's book 'The Great Crash of 1929'. I was totally hooked on business from that time on. I still own that very book! 

As far as the return I am likely to achieve, probably more than 10% looking at the calculations of a swing trade.












						The Great Crash of 1929
					

Of Galbraith's classic examination of the 1929 financial collapse, the Atlantic Monthly said:"Economic writings are seldom notable for th...



					www.goodreads.com


----------



## Stockbailx

Ann said:


> As far as the return I am likely to achieve, probably more than 10% looking at the calculations of a swing trade.



Hold your head high! Your an accomplished trader. The 30ema, should be considered as a Trend signal, and looking at the chart its doing all sorts of weird and wonderful things. My only criticism would be that it falls in a sharp decent.  The 50sma is strong hold. Going by your analysis, CKF should correct its self any day now. I mean look what happened feb/mar 20 it fell considerably, but bounced back. Of course that's a completely different scenario. I wouldn't let it run to far from there, as you said $11 is a failed trade. Thanks for the book (b00kmark) All the best!


----------



## Stockbailx

Look on the bright side your doing well (early days) 5/8 trades all in green yesterday a promising start to the week. 7/8 trades in the green today. AKE up on top of Lithium news it may surge. CKF may be correcting itself today, If you ask me your got some amazingly good apples in your tree...


----------



## tech/a

CKF

Well eat my pajamas


----------



## Ann

Stockybailz said:


> Look on the bright side your doing well (early days) 5/8 trades all in green yesterday a promising start to the week. 7/8 trades in the green today. AKE up on top of Lithium news it may surge. CKF may be correcting itself today, If you ask me your got some amazingly good apples in your tree...



Time will tell Stocky, a strong hurricane can blow off the best of apples from a tree, in fact the whole tree may be swept away. Time will tell.


tech/a said:


> CKF
> 
> Well eat my pajamas



Not so fast John, this may all unravel in a sea of tears.... 

Let's take a look and see if I lost any roof tiles. All my holdings are within my tolerance levels, so all good this week.
The worst performer was poor little BST. I am not surprised being so young it is very thinly traded. I broke a rule, I deserve the pain.
It is down 10.45% I was well prepared to see it down to these levels and lower. It bounced off $3.80 support. Let's see if this is a level that will hold. As far as CKF is concerned it has not broken $11, so still good.




I didn't need to sell any of my KISS holdings this week but I did sell one of my older holdings on Thursday ETF  HEUR. It broke below the 200dsma after a build-up of a series of resistance lines. I may come back to this at some later stage but it would need to overcome all those resistance lines first. Further explanation on the chart.


----------



## Ann

I bought the last two stocks for the KISS thread this week, not the most ideal entry points, I didn't wait for my sweet spot bounce. So feel the pain girl! 
One was A4N because I wanted another Aluminium stock and it appeared to have a sort of Cup & Handle pattern and the other was the ETF BNKS. This holds banks ex Australia. I may or may not have made a mistake with this one but let's see. I liked the three higher highs, the three higher lows and the lift above horizontal resistance.


----------



## frugal.rock

tech/a said:


> CKF
> 
> Well eat my pajamas



That's the oddest sell "smoke signal" I've seen for a while... 😅


----------



## Sean K

Ann said:


> I bought the last two stocks for the KISS thread this week, not the most ideal entry points, I didn't wait for my sweet spot bounce. So feel the pain girl!
> One was A4N because I wanted another Aluminium stock and it appeared to have a sort of Cup & Handle pattern and the other was the ETF BNKS. This holds banks ex Australia. I may or may not have made a mistake with this one but let's see. I liked the three higher highs, the three higher lows and the lift above horizontal resistance.
> 
> View attachment 136396
> View attachment 136397




You'd like the right lip of the cup to be a bit higher and the handle to not go so deep (I think a 50% retracement is the guide), but I think with imagination, you're on the mark. It's probably already reached it's projection from that set up though?


----------



## DaveTrade

Ann said:


> the other was the ETF BNKS



Rising interest rates will put some wind behind the sails of the banks, long term it should be good.


----------



## Ann

I am sure a number of us have found this a slightly uncomfortable week, never my favourite sort of week as I need to pay really close attention to all my stocks of which I have a number. Much more work than normal. Hopefully, this will resolve itself soon as a number of my stocks are more recent purchases, so less area for buffering. I may lose money but I will not bail before my tolerance parameters are broken. I didn't get a whole lot from Peter Lynch's book 'One Up on Wall Street' but what I did get was an invaluable quote...

*“Far More Money Has Been Lost By Investors Preparing For Corrections, Or Trying To Anticipate Corrections, Than Has Been Lost In Corrections Themselves.” – Peter Lynch.










						One Up On Wall Street
					

Booktopia has One Up On Wall Street, How To Use What You Already Know To Make Money In The Market by Peter Lynch. Buy a discounted Paperback of One Up On Wall Street online from Australia's leading online bookstore.




					www.booktopia.com.au
				



*
During these highly volatile days, there are a couple of charts I refer to just to get a bit of perspective one of them is the CBOE Total Put/Call Ratio ($CPC)

I see it like an overbought/oversold signal, similar to the RSI. Looks fairly oversold to me but it could go higher.





__





						Put/Call Ratio [ChartSchool]
					






					school.stockcharts.com


----------



## Ann




----------



## Sean K

Ann said:


> *“Far More Money Has Been Lost By Investors Preparing For Corrections, Or Trying To Anticipate Corrections, Than Has Been Lost In Corrections Themselves.” – Peter Lynch.*




Agree. I've read other analysis along those lines. And, there's some stats about investing at the top of the market before a crash and you redeem your money in X amount of time if you just hold on. As long everything you'd invested in didn't go bankrupt, so it might depend a bit on your asset allocation and time horizon.


----------



## divs4ever

Sean K said:


> Agree. I've read other analysis along those lines. And, there's some stats about investing at the top of the market before a crash and you redeem your money in X amount of time if you just hold on. As long everything you'd invested in didn't go bankrupt, so it might depend a bit on your asset allocation and time horizon.



 including ( real ) inflation  ?? 

 i suspect the answer is sometimes 

 PS i factored in 10% company failure  ( over the years ) when first formulating my plan at the end of 2010  ( SO FAR , i am beating that but the end of 2022 might tell a different outcome )


----------



## Sean K

divs4ever said:


> including ( real ) inflation  ??
> 
> i suspect the answer is sometimes
> 
> PS i factored in 10% company failure  ( over the years ) when first formulating my plan at the end of 2010  ( SO FAR , i am beating that but the end of 2022 might tell a different outcome )




Not sure. Just based on the indices I think.


----------



## divs4ever

i would be surprised if anyone has done that calculation with real inflation   when using  CPI is so government acceptable 

 Japan is a  fairly easy  example of NO , but is it unique  , could there be other examples 

 ( obviously 'real inflation'  data is hard to find in several  countries  , but what of others )


----------



## Ann

Sean K said:


> You'd like the right lip of the cup to be a bit higher and the handle to not go so deep (I think a 50% retracement is the guide), but I think with imagination, you're on the mark. It's probably already reached it's projection from that set up though?



Loving your new avi Sean! 😍

I never use other people's guides, I have always only ever eyeballed it. I look at something and go, yeah near enough!
However, being only half a cup I am not sure I can claim it to be one nor am I confident it will resolve as a Cup & Handle.

I foolishly tried to do a simple swing trade calculation as my chart doesn't go up high enough for this chart to just drag the calc line and sit it on the breakthrough horizontal.

I worked it out to be a potential outcome of $1.14, subject to correction! 🤔


----------



## Ann

Sean K said:


> Agree. I've read other analysis along those lines. And, there's some stats about investing at the top of the market before a crash and you redeem your money in X amount of time if you just hold on. As long everything you'd invested in didn't go bankrupt, so it might depend a bit on your asset allocation and time horizon.



Yeah no! I have a high threshold for pain but riding all the way down to the bottom is not my ideal business plan!


----------



## Sean K

Ann said:


> Loving your new avi Sean! 😍
> 
> I never use other people's guides, I have always only ever eyeballed it. I look at something and go, yeah near enough!
> However, being only half a cup I am not sure I can claim it to be one nor am I confident it will resolve as a Cup & Handle.




Dahab, diving with the fishes, 2005, pre-ASF! I'm not sure why more people don't put their true selves up. I've only done it since I retired I suppose. And, I'm trying not to say crazy crap that will bite me later.

The chart I've pulled up actually looks like the C&H is yet to conclude, perhaps. Very different to yours. Very nice large rounded bottom, but not sure what that means from here. Would have loved to see this a few months ago.

In the right industry at the moment. I do like LEDs. Just wondering if they're all talk or have some substance.


----------



## Ann

Sean K said:


> Dahab, diving with the fishes, 2005. I'm not sure why more people don't put their true selves up.
> 
> View attachment 136411



Well I am sure we would all put pics of ourselves up if we had a head as good looking as yours.



	

		
			
		

		
	
This was an avi I drew and animated of myself when I was the Gallery Director for pixel art on DeviantArt! I don't smoke but it sort of added that tired old tart look to me!


I see your 'cup' as the 'handle' and don't expect a really deep retrace, handles tend to take off once they are clear of the horizontal overhead.


----------



## Sean K

Ann said:


> I see your 'cup' as the 'handle' and don't expect a really deep retrace, handles tend to take off once they are clear of the horizontal overhead.




So, between 64-70c is the handle? It actually looks like a very nice setup if it bounces off 64 ish.


----------



## Ann

I thought I would take this opportunity to show how I make trading decisions in a falling market or just exiting stocks in general. Sadly all my KISS stocks are recent purchases so therefore I have no buffer of time in and a price paid. However, this does not mean I will behave like a deer in the headlights, even if it causes me some losses, even substantial losses. I assess each stock for its price in time and space taking care to note the quantity of overhead resistance be it falling or horizontal overhead resistance or/and the 200dsma. This is the first time I have been caught on the wrong side of so many trades. January is generally a fairly safe month to trade and it can often have some decent upside. Not always but sometimes. Let's see how we go.

All my trades are based on levels of support or weakness, once I feel a stock has too much overhead pressure to recover for some time, I call it a day. Hope you find this interesting.












There are a number of other items in the KISS list but it is pretty much the same scenario with some of them.

However, this last one is the reason I am here with the KISS thread. I wanted to improve my exits from a profitable stock. Having had a long term view of stocks in the past, I would just ride the highs and lows. I felt I could improve my results on a better exit strategy and then potential re-entry if the stock returned to higher levels. This is my strategy of using a short term rising trendline support, once this is broken I will then draw a support line under the first low beyond the trendline as I have illustrated on the chart.


----------



## sptrawler

So will you exit everything if the market keeps falling, or hold some with a long term view?


----------



## divs4ever

sptrawler said:


> So will you exit everything if the market keeps falling, or hold some with a long term view?



 me ?? 

 i am mostly likely to hold ( or even selectively accumulate )

my top ten  at the end of last month 

( by $value )


1. MQG. ( 'free-carried ') ( av. SP $26.76 , but ignoring the crystallized gains from the SYD bonus )

2. PME ( 'free-carried ' ) ( av. SP 16.5 cents )

3. APE ( at some cash risk ) ( av. SP  under $2.50 )

4. API ( full cash risk ) ( less than $100 behind ) ( av. SP $1.34  but likely to be acquired by WES )

cash ( boosted by take-over payouts )

5. WES ( at full cash risk ) ( av. SP $37.13  but ignoring the bonus COL )

6. JHG ( full cash risk ) ( av. SP $29.17 )

7. BHP ( some profit taken ) ( av. SP $28.96 , ignoring the bonus S32 )

8. CMW ( at full cash risk ) ( less than $400 behind ) ( av. SP 90c  but willing to carefully accumulate )

9. GRR ( at full cash risk ) ( av. SP 20.3 cents )

10. CDM ( at full cash risk ) ( av. SP 98 cents but willing to carefully accumulate )

 SO FAR the plan is to cherry-pick/accumulate 

 BTW i do NOT expect this  to be a calm sensible time coming ( seat-belts and hard hats recommended even if watching with binoculars )

 but if you are say 40 years old , other options might make better sense ( for you )


----------



## sptrawler

I was mainly asking @Ann the question, she has been showing the suggested exit points, I was wondering if she applies the same rules to all her holdings or just certain ones she trades.
I as you @divs4ever seem to be a buy and hold for a lot of shares and trade a smaller group of speculative ones, I may be wrong but that is what your posts seem to indicate to me.
By the way thanks to you both, for sharing your ideas.


----------



## Ann

sptrawler said:


> So will you exit everything if the market keeps falling, or hold some with a long term view?



When the markets are in the decline there is no long term view for me. There are stocks I like and will re-enter after a fall or a break in the 'sell' level after they come back above some designated support line.


sptrawler said:


> I was mainly asking @Ann the question, she has been showing the suggested exit points, I was wondering if she applies the same rules to all her holdings or just certain ones she trades.



Yes, in the past I always had an exit strategy at that 'sell' level but this is what I am trying to improve with the KISS thread. Riding it down to the 'sell' level has seen me give back big percentages to the market in the past. I rarely lost capital, except for a rare exception and that was generally because I broke my rules.

I took the opportunity to sell CQE on Friday. The normal support level I would give to CQE would have been $3.33 as my 'sell under' level. I would have got something a little under 10%, not including brokerage, not awful but not good either. Selling when I did pulled in approx 23.88% including brokerage. I could have sold higher but it had broken above its all-time high and a fall back to short term support seemed reasonable. Once it broke that support for a second day was enough to get me out particularly reviewing the other major REITs such as MVA, REIT and SLF. They are all spearing through their 200dsma. Outski baby! I can always buy back in if it breaks above the level of the double top.






28/01/2022                      *Sell* CQE1,666​3.730​19.95​*6,194.23*​                       1/02/2022                                           Confirmed


----------



## Ann

So far none of my shares has sustained a fall below their sell lines so nothing was needed to be sold as yet. CKF spent a day and a half under the $11 sell line but given that it has a positive PVI which tells me there is market sentiment and looking at the punters lined up in the quote section on the day, there was almost two to one buyers to sellers.  So demand is there, I waited and sure enough, it hopped back above the $11 sell line. Now I am going to raise that sell line to $12ish waiting to see if the now rising resistance can be overcome to reinstate it as a support line. 




Now let's take a look at the worst-performing stock for the week in my KISS portfolio, poor little BST, it is down 21.14%! Dear, oh dear! 

I discovered this week if you set the 200dma on exponential not simple it will work with very young stocks. I have been very reticent to buy youngsters as I had no idea how they were travelling in space without a 200dma, now I can see using the 200dema. I can see I bought this at the top of a dreadful bubble and I am not at all surprised at how much it has fallen. Pleased to see it bounced off the 200dema and lifted above the rising support from its listing. It will be interesting to see if this is a slow recovery or will it bounce back quickly. It may sit in minus for some time, that's OK, my fault for buying at the top of a bubble!


----------



## Ann

Now we see what the turmoil of this last week has done to my KISS holdings, not a pretty sight but fortunately, none had to be sold as they all held their support lines, some by the skin of their teeth. There may be more dramas in the markets ahead and there is still the risk I may have to sell and realize a loss, time will tell.


----------



## rnr

Now let's take a look at the worst-performing stock for the week in my KISS portfolio, poor little BST, it is down 21.14%! Dear, oh dear!

I discovered this week if you set the 200dma on exponential not simple it will work with very young stocks. I have been very reticent to buy youngsters as I had no idea how they were travelling in space without a 200dma, now I can see using the 200dema. I can see I bought this at the top of a dreadful bubble and I am not at all surprised at how much it has fallen. Pleased to see it bounced off the 200dema and lifted above the rising support from its listing. It will be interesting to see if this is a slow recovery or will it bounce back quickly. It may sit in minus for some time, that's OK, my fault for buying at the top of a bubble!







Hi Ann,

Just making sure that you don't get confused between a 200 bar exponential moving average (ema) and a 200 bar Dema as they are calculated differently.

Cheers, Rob


----------



## Ann

Ann said:


> I took the opportunity to sell CQE on Friday. The normal support level I would give to CQE would have been $3.33 as my 'sell under' level. I would have got something a little under 10%, not including brokerage, not awful but not good either.



Rubbish, rubbish, rubbish! Taking another look at CQE my 'sell under' level would have been $3.57 _not  _$3.33. Although now that I look at this chart I really gave a lot back to the market even selling at $3.73.  I need to get a lot better at this. I think I need to bring in some simple indicators such as the RSI and actually look at them at a high point, the risk is I end up behaving like almost a day trader....need to ponder on this.


----------



## Ann

rnr said:


> Hi Ann,
> 
> Just making sure that you don't get confused between a 200 bar exponential moving average (ema) and a 200 bar Dema as they are calculated differently.
> 
> Cheers, Rob



Hi Rob,

Dunno, I just trust Colin Twiggs to suggest the settings, I don't do calculations myself....

This is how I choose my indicators, I mostly use Colin's suggestions as they come. Although as I say to people if the MA of whatever time or style works for you then use it!  So it really doesn't matter what it is as long as I feel comfy using it.


----------



## Ann

Rightio, let's see what eff ups I did this week! OOO for one!

First, let's talk about CKF, last week I wrote on the chart that if it did not lift above $12ish after a few sessions then I would sell because I felt it would be weakening. Well since then I have discovered Volume Spikes, a much ignored and disregarded indicator by me. I started looking for the tallest spikes of volume and drew a horizontal line from the EOD price. I now see them as a solid line of support with the strength of numbers behind them. Sort of a horizontal volume level if you will, there is a proper name for this but I can't remember @peter2 knows what it is called. I have drawn a volume horizontal on the CKF chart at $11.47, let's see if the price can remain above this line.




Now to OOO. I normally only look at charts but I thought I would be a clever clogs and try to sell at the top using the rounding top I could see on the oil chart (WTI not OOO) and also look at the MACD and the RSI seeing them into oversold. Sold didn't I?! I was done like an old bear hunting for honey.

I have now done away with the RSI, MACD and a few others. I have kept Twiggs Money Flow, Positive Volume Index and Volume. Just looking at those couple of Indicators it looks really positive and certainly worth a buy, which I may well do this coming week. Sometimes I wish I could just get out of my own way! 🙄


----------



## Ann




----------



## Ann

Nothing was sold this week, all within their tolerance levels, they are still looking a bit ordinary. Had quite a bit of green early in the week but Friday's drop stuffed that.  Lots of tempting stocks out there, busy going through my watch lists.


----------



## tech/a

Hmmm 
15% losses and 5% wins .
Gotta take care of this Ann.


----------



## Ann

tech/a said:


> Hmmm
> 15% losses and 5% wins .
> Gotta take care of this Ann.



It is fine so far John, most of them are well above the sell line, but I do have my sell prices organized in case something decides to weaken. None of them looks weak just offering up buying opportunities for those more patient than myself. Some of these I bought too high. I am hoping a bit more study of volume may give me a better view of entrances. More practice is required. I have in the past entered purely on chart shape but now I know often a stock will be at a high with high volume before a pullback and vice versa. That will indicate a possible fall or rise in the immediate future. I also notice if there is a high volume in the middle between high and low then the rise is not sustained. I noticed this when I was getting up close and personal when I first started looking at volumes. I was looking at the charts of the Competition for Feb. It was WIN which showed me the high volume high, pull back and the high volume low, lift in price and it was LPI which showed me the restricted rise after a high volume in the middle. I have taken note of this and have found it to be true elsewhere as well. Too hard to describe...picture.


----------



## DaveTrade

Ann said:


> I am hoping a bit more study of volume may give me a better view of entrances.



Hi Ann, my suggestion would be to study candlestick analysis rather than volume. If you decide to do this and want any recommendations of where to find free info then let me know.


----------



## Ann

DaveTrade said:


> Hi Ann, my suggestion would be to study candlestick analysis rather than volume. If you decide to do this and want any recommendations of where to find free info then let me know.



Thanks, for the suggestion Dave, suggestions are always greatly appreciated and welcomed. Candlesticks was one of my earliest studies back around 2004-2006, I bought books and studied charts. It took me nowhere. It was as good as a coin toss for me. There was one fellow on IC charts forum who swore by them and I suggested we would be very interested if he could give us a running commentary of a trade or two using candlesticks. He declined the offer. However, I would never dispute the benefits of candlesticks as long as you can see them in your mind. I just use them for good levels of gaps and identifying island tops and bottoms patterns. Although now they will be an integral part of VSA.

It is only early days with my volume study which kicked off here... https://www.aussiestockforums.com/t...xt-catalysts-an-application-to-trading-stocks.

Already I am seeing risk-reward potential. It is going to take me ages to do forensics on my current trades and where I could have improved on an entry or exit I have 24 holdings and about 10 recent exits so it won't be a five-minute job! I have been looking at videos on VSA (Volume Spread Analysis). So far they are not telling me anything I haven't already observed in the short time I have been looking into this,  other than the size or spread of the candlesticks. That was useful and interesting information.

Thanks again Dave, I appreciate your input.


----------



## tech/a

What most don5 understand is that price action and it’s indicated meaning in a price move record3d in a candle or a bar, is nothing more than an indication of what may happen.

THEY ARENT BUY OR SELL SIGNALS

Until confirming price and volume action is evident

THEN a low risk ( up to you to determine ) 
can be considered.


----------



## Ann

I will often top up my portfolio in January as it tends to be a pretty good month generally. Well, this month is the exception and I really mean EXCEPTION! I found an interesting graph someone created using the lows and highs of January for the S&P 500 going back to 1928.  

However, it did give me the opportunity to show how I handle a fall in the markets. This is the first time I haven't been in the money and the first time I have been faced with capital loss, but I have no intention of cutting and running just because I am in the red. I will keep my tolerance parameters at the same position as if I was well up. I may or may not lose capital, time will tell.


----------



## Ann

I am going to talk about two of my holdings today, the first one is ORA. It illustrates quite clearly how having an automatic stop loss can lose you capital and potentially cost you some returns. ORA speared down below my stop loss level and just as quickly speared up and some. This was something I rejected when I read Weinstein's book Trading in Bull and Bear Markets. He worked with automatic stop loss and even worse, automatic buys. I thought both of those were somewhat dangerous and I still feel that same way. To date, I have never regretted having a discretionary stop loss. 





The next is poor little BST, it looks like it fell back again to retest the 200dema. That puts the stock 23.86% down in my portfolio. I discovered the 200d exponential ma works with new stocks whereas the 200d simple ma does not, obviously all in the calculations! So this shines a whole new light on new stocks for me.

I have been doing a lot of work with volume spikes recently and as I watched the reaction of stocks to the V spikes, I noticed that if a volume spike occurs at either the top or the bottom of a price rise or fall, the price will reverse its direction. Wow, I think only a picture would make that comment clear! The next trade or two will confirm this but hopefully, there will be a good rise in BST as there was a decent volume spike going with the price plunge back to the 200dema.


----------



## Ann




----------



## Skate

Skate said:


> @Ann when you speak of the "200dema" are you referring to the "200-day (EMA) or 200-day (DEMA)?
> 
> As @rnr remarked they are different as a "Double Exponential Moving Average" (*DEMA*) is a technical indicator similar to a traditional moving average (MA) & (EMA), except the lag is greatly reduced.






Ann said:


> I discovered the *200d exponential ma *works with new stocks whereas the *200d simple ma *does not, obviously all in the calculations! So this shines a whole new light on new stocks for me.




I've deleted my previous post as my question has already been answered.

Skate.


----------



## Miner

Ann said:


> View attachment 137850
> 
> 
> View attachment 137853



Hi Ann
with your portfolio, is it a virtual one or you actually have put money into it ?
Some of the technically good stocks though I have not followed closely, gone down. I suspect it is only temporary .
All the best,


----------



## DaveTrade

Ann said:


> having an automatic stop loss can lose you capital and potentially cost you some returns



Ann this is a case of 'one size fits all' does not apply the the stock market. Penny stocks can be much more volatile because institutions don't trade stocks under $10. I haven't read Weinstein's book but he may have been working with a different type of stock. So as you are doing now we must adjust the way we trade depending on the type of stock being traded and the market environment we are trading at that time. Hope this helps.


----------



## Ann

Miner said:


> Hi Ann
> with your portfolio, is it a virtual one or you actually have put money into it ?
> Some of the technically good stocks though I have not followed closely, gone down. I suspect it is only temporary .
> All the best,



Hi Miner, yes they are all part of my larger portfolio, with the $value as quoted. I was going to buy more shares for my portfolio and decided to share with everyone why I chose them, where I found them and how I am trading them.


----------



## Skate

Ann said:


> Hi Miner, *yes they are all part of my larger portfolio*, with the $value as quoted. I was going to buy more shares for my portfolio and decided to share with everyone why I chose them, where I found them and how I am trading them.




@Miner, Ann has answered you but to be perfectly clear those positions are positioned placed in a CommSec watchlist, that's all. Also for further clarification, those positions can also be in a trading portfolio & separated for this example.

Skate.


----------



## Ann

DaveTrade said:


> Ann this is a case of 'one size fits all' does not apply the the stock market. Penny stocks can be much more volatile because institutions don't trade stocks under $10. I haven't read Weinstein's book but he may have been working with a different type of stock. So as you are doing now we must adjust the way we trade depending on the type of stock being traded and the market environment we are trading at that time. Hope this helps.




I just checked Weinstein's book and all the charts he was quoting were high price stocks, no penny stocks I could see. Shortly I am planning to have a fiddle with some penny dreadfuls, these have historically not been my area but I think I will continue to ride bareback, so to speak!  Time will tell if I lose some money or not without auto stops with penny stocks. However it will only be a couple of grand a stock, so nothing that does me any real damage if I lose an odd one here or there.


----------



## Ann

Skate said:


> @Miner, Ann has answered you but to be perfectly clear those positions are positioned placed in a CommSec watchlist, that's all. Also for further clarification, those positions can also be in a trading portfolio & separated for this example.
> 
> Skate.




Not Commsec Skate, it is Westpac and they don't offer a trading portfolio that is separate from my main portfolio. A watchlist is the only way I can do it with Westpac.


----------



## Ann

Rightio, how did we do this week? Not so well, I decided to jettison CKF. I had lifted its stop loss from $11 to $11.41 as a prudent move the way the markets were behaving. The price remained under that level into the fourth day. Sadly it attracted a $ loss. I didn't think it could withstand further market falls and took the opportunity to sell into a rising day for the shares on Friday after it became clear it was not going to lift above stop loss. None of my other stocks fell below stop loss.

When I sell at a loss I _always_ do a 'forensic analysis' of the trade to work out where I made a mistake. It is something I have always done in a constant effort at self-improvement, not to be confused with self-criticism, I never do that it damages the psyche. 

Under the prevailing and uncertain conditions of the week with the Ukraine invasion, I feel the move up of the stop loss was prudent and subsequent sale was correct. _However,  _there was a major mistake I made that would have delayed or stopped the sale. Every morning I check Stockcharts for the outcome of the markets for the last US close, I totally missed the volume spike under the low on the S&P500 for the Thursday close. It was there but hidden under a price level, no excuse, I should have set the volume for below price and not the auto setting of behind price, I am well aware of the vital importance of volume spikes as I have been working on them for a couple of weeks now. I believe based on the volume spike, we will be seeing a rise in the stock markets over the next period of time, I have no idea if it will be a dead cat bounce or a resumption of higher prices.
This is a lesson now learned and in future, all volumes will be viewed in a separate window and assessed before decisions are made. 

Just for interest I will look back at CKF next week and see what the outcome would have been had I not sold.


----------



## Ann

....and the drawdown and loss for this week is....


----------



## Garpal Gumnut

Ann said:


> ....and the drawdown and loss for this week is....
> 
> View attachment 138263
> 
> 
> View attachment 138265



I believe anyone who had skin in the markets over the last month or so would have similar if not larger drawdowns. 

I'm enjoying your thinkin' and charts @Ann.

gg


----------



## Skate

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I believe anyone who had skin in the markets over the last month or so *would have similar if not larger drawdowns*.
> 
> I'm enjoying your thinkin' and charts @Ann.
> 
> gg




@Garpal Gumnut I'm sure those trading systematically would have larger drawdowns. My "Flying Bat Strategy" is down (-11.3%) & my "Platinum Strategy" is down (-5.6%) for the same period whereas Ann's "KISS Strategy" is only down (-4.1%).

*Not too shabby*
After looking at @Ann KISS Portfolio results the "KISS strategy" is traveling along nicely under very trying trading conditions, well done.

*Portfolio Results are more accurate*
Using a Portfolio rather than a "Watchlist" the results become clearer. The "Watchlist" reports a loss of -$2,741.273 (-7.363%) which doesn't do the "KISS Strategy" justice. The "Watchlist" reports the value of open position value & doesn't take into consideration the positions sold from the portfolio.

*Watchlists*
I should also say a watchlist is a snapshot in time of open positions "only" that can be misleading to the true value of the portfolio.




Skate.


----------



## Ann

Thank you for taking the trouble to do this table @Skate, most appreciated.   When I have time I will work out what it says, too complex for me with only a quick glance.  
Another sale this week, ABB. Will put up a chart another time, too busy atm. The sale was to do with a volume spike. I am practising trading with V spikes, skin in the game is the only way I can learn, backtesting can only take me so far then I need to put cash on the table or in this case, take cash off the table.


----------



## Skate

Ann said:


> Thank you for taking the trouble to do this table @Skate, most appreciated.




@Ann as this is an interesting project displaying "accurate results" will give others a true indication of how this portfolio is progressing. The "KISS strategy" is still traveling nicely under trying trading conditions.

*Watchlists*
The watchlist capture below is a snapshot of the results of "open positions" that can be misleading. Using the "KISS Portfolio" rather than a "Watchlist" the results become clearer. The "Watchlist" reports a loss of -$2,729.018 (-8.463%) which is inaccurate & doesn't do the "KISS Strategy" justice. The true results are much better.








*Summary*
If you don't mind, I'll update your KISS Portfolio after your report your weekly "buy & sells". Even though the portfolio is in the red at the moment the results at this stage are "insignificant". The portfolio return of (-4.3%) is a good result at the moment considering the current trading conditions.

Skate.


----------



## Ann

Skate said:


> *Summary*
> If you don't mind, I'll update your KISS Portfolio after your report your weekly "buy & sells". Even though the portfolio is in the red at the moment the results at this stage are "insignificant". The portfolio return of (-4.3%) is a good result at the moment considering the current trading conditions.



That would be great Skate! Thank you for your chart clarification, there were a few too many squares for me to ferret out the simple bit at a quick glance.

This was much easier to understand.


----------



## Ann

OK, let's look at ABB. I sold this last Tuesday (March 1st) as it had a reasonable volume spike on the day before (Monday). I want to work on volume spikes but I can't do it academically with backtesting. I need to do it and succeed or stuff up. Stuff up is always preferable. On this occasion, I think I stuffed up and will miss some more highs coming from ABB. I was wondering if a volume spike would trump a bullish inverted Head & Shoulders which had just bounced off the 200dsma. In normal circumstances, I would never have sold, having seen this excellent chart set-up. What I missed was Twiggs money flow. On the first volume spike reversal, the money flow was falling, on this volume spike, the TMF was lifting.  This is a lesson learned. I am not used to trading with indicators strapped to the bottom of my charts. I usually only look at the chart itself. If I had only looked at the chart I would certainly not have sold ABB. Let's see how it pans out, whatever, I am going to learn stuff, always a good thing!  🤓


----------



## Ann

Let's look at how KISS did this week, sold two companies, made some reasonable $$$ along the way. The first I will talk about is ORA which I sold for $3.63 on Thursday. Again I am trading using volume spikes as a guide. There was a volume spike halfway down a fall. Generally, I am seeing after the fall, the recovery only comes up to the V spike horizontal level or slightly above before it falls back. I took the opportunity to sell even though I only managed an extremely meagre % increase of 6.32%. I felt it prudent to sell under current conditions as I doubt a packaging company will set investors on fire enough to want to buy above a double top. Could be wrong of course. However, a small profit is better than a loss. If I lose some upside....gosh, I will just have to suck it up! 





My other sale of the week was SMR and the renounceable rights attached on Tuesday after the Monday ex-rights date. There was an offer of 7 rights for every 3 shares held. I sold the company and then half the rights. I decided I was a dill to hold half the rights and sold the second half immediately just holding back about 530ish RRs, enough for a marketable parcel which would give me access to the rights of a share purchase of $1.10 ps and there is also the opportunity to apply for more shares over the number of rights held, so I will apply for another 4000 shares which are also available for $1.10 and it does not attract any brokerage of course. So I was able to realize a 134.70% gain from the combination of the renounceable rights and company sale and hopefully regain my holding of around $5000 of SMR again after I take up my rights and apply for the extra company shares.


----------



## Ann

Now to my portfolio which is looking a bit tragic with many of the stocks being pounded but still maintaining their levels above stop-loss although BNKS slid into stop-loss territory on a couple of occasions during the week but as I have said, my stops are always manual and there for me to assess how things are travelling.  I noticed the US equivalent fund of BNKS which is KBE had an excellent volume spike at KBE's recent low. It has managed to shake off the market doldrums and moved slowly upward from there. Hoping BNKS will continue to follow suit.

Perhaps @Skate will be kind enough to make my portfolio look a little less tragic with his magic squares!


----------



## Skate

Ann said:


> Perhaps @Skate will be kind enough to make my portfolio look a little less tragic with his magic squares!




*Watchlists*
The watchlist capture below is a snapshot of the results of "open positions" that can be misleading. Using the "KISS Portfolio" rather than a "Watchlist" the results become clearer. The "Watchlist" reports a loss of -$3,294.02 (-15.185%) which is inaccurate & doesn't do the "KISS Strategy" justice. 

*The KISS Strategy Portfolio Results*
The (accurate) results are reflective of how the strategy is performing. The "Portfolio" reports a profit of +$4,777 (+9.6%) with 5 open positions. To understand the "Dashboard" click to expand & read the caption to better understand the results displayed. The colour coding of the boxes also tells a story at a glance.




















*Summary*
The KISS portfolio is traveling along nicely. The Buy & Sell Trades are listed for those interested & following along. The "Open Positions" are also listed even though Ann's has them displayed.

Skate.


----------



## Ann

Thank you very much @Skate for going to so much trouble with your magic squares, it is really appreciated!👏🥰


----------



## Bourseboy

Hi Ann, like what you are doing.
On the ORA chart you have a box "sell under $3.25". Is this your stop loss and, if so, how did you arrive at it it?
Cheers


----------



## Ann

Bourseboy said:


> Hi Ann, like what you are doing.
> On the ORA chart you have a box "sell under $3.25". Is this your stop loss and, if so, how did you arrive at it it?
> Cheers



Thanks for the question Bourseboy, I had been thinking about giving an explanation for how I arrive at my stop loss levels. I should emphasise these are all entirely manual stop losses. If this portfolio had auto stop loss I would have been closed out of four of the holdings unnecessarily with quite large capital losses. I like to see how things are travelling before I make a decision to leave a stock. Often there will be a spike down below stop loss for a day or two before it recovers again. In the case of CKF, as the markets were falling I moved the original stop of $11 up to $11.41, it rather hung around below stop loss looking a bit on the weak side for about four days. That was enough for me to flick it at a bit of a capital loss of around 7.6%. It may come back but the little capital I lost will not leave me too badly out of the money. So far it has continued to travel southward,  I am not regretting the decision to sell.


----------



## Bourseboy

Thanks for the explanation. I understand your reasoning wrt setting stop loss. Still have not found stop loss methodology that I am sure about. Currently thinking 2 ATR below buy price. Feel 3 ATR results in too big a loss (and comes in a little late, as trend by then is well established as going down). Not keen on %, but have not explored this yet.


----------



## DaveTrade

Bourseboy said:


> Still have not found stop loss methodology that I am sure about.



From my experience the stop-loss setting can vary depending on the market conditions but a good start if you only use one method would be to use market structure (support/resistance levels).


----------



## Ann

Nothing sold this week but I decided to review BST as it looks really dreadful in the portfolio. It went ex-dividend on Monday and had a very small fall into the stop loss level for one day.  When I bought this I was quite confident it would probably consolidate sideways before it began to rise after a month or two. As we all know now, we just went through the worst January on record for the markets and BST got well and truly sold down, probably by the original subscribers to the IPO. Although I have no doubt it was being sold down from its top intentionally. The fundies probably decided it had risen enough. I will show why I am so convinced about this. 

This is just another example of how I am now going to adjust my entry-level. For years I have been rewarded quite handsomely by being a trend trader, entering after higher highs and higher lows to a point overcoming a support/resistance line. I did this by avoiding buying in on the months most likely to have a retrace.  I have been profoundly grateful to have encountered this market correction so early in my new portfolio. It has made me look harder at entry levels. I originally started this thread in order to find a better exit strategy in an effort to improve on an average 20% gain in my trading. I can see how I may well be able to better my 20% average with a better entry strategy.





On the day I bought into this there was a lot of buying support for the rise in price. Then came the price decision after close. No-one will ever convince me this is not manipulation of the markets!


----------



## Ann

Hello @Skate may I ask for your very kind assistance to make my portfolio look slightly healthier than it appears please?


----------



## Skate

Ann said:


> Hello @Skate may I ask for your very kind assistance to make my portfolio look slightly healthier than it appears please?







There is not too much to say as the results speak for themselves. I've circled in red a few highlights. The Kiss Strategy is traveling along nicely.





*Summary*
The results are easy to summarise in one word "Impressive". A Profit Factor of 2.63 is simply "amazing" trading during these turbulent times.

Skate.


----------



## Ann

Skate said:


> View attachment 139271




This is gorgeous, thank you very much Skate! And again thank you very much for going to so much trouble to make me look less of a loser! 



Skate said:


> The results are easy to summarise in one word "Impressive". A Profit Factor of 2.63 is simply "amazing" trading during these turbulent times.
> 
> Skate.




Really?! Thank you for the kind words, I was thinking the results were a bit average. My own takeaway was simply there is so much more that can be improved here for far, far better results.


----------



## DaveTrade

Bourseboy said:


> Still have not found stop loss methodology that I am sure about.





DaveTrade said:


> a good start if you only use one method would be to use market structure



Hi @Bourseboy , my brief one dimensional answer gnawed away at me so I had to add to it by saying that your stop-loss method has to be integrated into your money-management method and your money-management method has to be integrated into your trade plan. So a stop-loss based on market structure may not be suitable for a particular trade plan. OK, now I can feel more relaxed about giving advice.


----------



## qldfrog

DaveTrade said:


> Hi @Bourseboy , my brief one dimensional answer gnawed away at me so I had to add to it by saying that your stop-loss method has to be integrated into your money-management method and your money-management method has to be integrated into your trade plan. So a stop-loss based on market structure may not be suitable for a particular trade plan. OK, now I can feel more relaxed about giving advice.



And you are not giving advice as per forum number 1 rule, you are offering suggestions of different potential ways to trade based on your experience 👍


----------



## Ann

I have been banging on about market manipulation here and elsewhere and today I went in to check my holdings after the close and was gobsmacked at this!  I would love someone to come on here and tell me this is not market manipulation 101.

As soon as I can get out of this bloody stock without copping too much capital loss if that is even going to be possible, I am out never ever to return. The price manipulation is just too blatant and regular. 




and this is a shot of its price journey through the day


----------



## Ann

....and another exciting or should I say exiting week of trading for KISS.  BST held below its stop loss level for three days, on the third day I said enough is enough and sold. Damn painful $$ wise too! The only time I ever lose big is when I break my own rules...I should have known _never _to break my own rules they are there for a reason! These were my own words when I added BST here...


Ann said:


> The other stock I bought is actually a rule breaker for me. It is only a tiny baby on the charts which still is not old enough for a 200dsm these I would normally never buy.



Now I ask myself a question ... "have you lost enough money to imprint this rule into your numbnut yet?" then I answer myself, "Only buy a stock which is old enough to display the 200dsimple MA!" Geez. Now I have got it!

Just for academic interest, I went back and looked at the 11th stock I bought at the time which would have been on my original list had I not bought BST. It was LOV. Here is the chart and here are the results...Fortunately, I was practising reading volume spikes at the time in an effort to predict future stock movements. I was happy enough with proceeds of 14% in a falling market.


----------



## Ann

I might be being an optimist but I feel the markets may have done their retrace for the time being so I am going to say out of 10 stocks I lost on two which is about my average 10% to 20% loss rate. I really need to work on this further. Breaking my own rules is often the cause of a loss.

In order to keep this thread interesting, I decided to top up the holdings back to ten again. I do hope @Skate does not mind all the extra work!

I have reinstated SMR because I had no intention of selling this out of my portfolio, I was simply swapping my holding for a lower buy price of $1.10 instead of $1.18, I think I paid for it originally. They put up a notice to say we all got our full allocation, so now safe to add it back to the list of holdings. The new shares begin trading on the 1st April, so there may be a fallback in the price. AGE is in a trading halt waiting for some drilling results, so I may need my stop loss levels for this one!

I have now adjusted my trading entrance style from buying after higher highs and higher lows, to a simpler entrance of buying on or just above the 200dmas. My stop loss level will still remain a touch under the 200dmas where I find a price support level. This is pretty much always been my habit of stop loss and as I have mentioned all my stop loss levels are manual. Let's see how this new style works for me as I go forward with my new volume spikes in hand as well!  All these new stocks have been bought using this new style and I believe all the charts are displayed under their respective threads if anyone wishes to assess them at all.

I should also add all the stocks purchased here were found on the IC screener.

Again thanks so much to @Skate for all the effort he is putting into keeping a more professional record of my comings and goings, it is profoundly appreciated!


----------



## Skate

Ann said:


> *I have reinstated SMR because I had no intention of selling this out of my portfolio*, I was simply swapping my holding for a lower buy price of $1.10 instead of $1.18, I think I paid for it originally.







@Ann I have an issue.

*Movements outside the last trading week can't be added to the portfolio*
The additional positions highlighted in red reflect the movement of positions outside of the reporting period. For accuracy, the movement of positions has to be from the last recorded date of 20th March 2022. The updated report can only include "movements during the previous trading week" between the 20th March to 25th March 2022. The movement of positions outside this period has "not been recorded" as the movement "falls outside the cascading time period". (the last trading week)





*Open Summary before today's report*
The report below is the "Open Positions" from last week. The movement of positions can only be from the last report date of the 20th March 2022.




*What does this mean?*
The movement of the positions below falls outside the "last reporting" period so they can't be included.

*To be included in the Portfolio*
The movement of these positions must have been between 20th March to 25th March 2022. The positions reported below should have been included at the "record date".
(1) SMR (14/3/2022)
(2) DYL (15/3/2022)
(3) PDN (15/3/2022)
(4) AGE (15/3/2022)
(5) PEN (15/3/2022)
(6) DYL (14/3/2022)






*In a nutshell*
A "Profit Factor" of (3.47) & a "Portfolio Return" of (12.9%) is impressive.

*Summary*
Reporting & recording the movement of positions outside the last report date "muddy the waters" as to say. Adding additional position movements contaminates the accuracy of my reports so in all fairness it would be better for me to refrain from making additional posts on the KISS Strategy.

Skate.


----------



## Ann

Skate said:


> @Ann I have an issue.



No worries Skate, it is all good. I shall look forward or not to next week, plus trading on SMR hasn't started for me yet anyway. 

Bless and keep!


----------



## Ann

@Skate why is DEV in and the rest out I bought the rest before DEV. I think you are looking at the settlement date and not the purchase date...very confused!


----------



## Skate

Ann said:


> @Skate why is DEV in and the rest out* I bought the rest before DEV*. I think you are looking at the settlement date and not the purchase date...very confused!




@Ann that's the issue. You purchased all the positions listed before (DEV). To have those positions included in the portfolio they should have been reported before the last report & at the time they were actioned. (ie, the "Record Date)

*To be included in the Portfolio*
The movement of any positions must be been between 20th March to 25th March 2022. Last week's report closed on the "20th March 2022" & this week's report closed today "27th March 2022".

*Any additions or deductions to today's records *
These movements can only be from movements from tomorrow to the end of trade Friday (28th March to the 1st April 2022 inclusive)

*DEV falls within the last trading period *
It appears the buy order for (DEV) was placed on 22nd March 2022 & the purchase was confirmed/transacted on the 24th March 2022 (within the last trading week).




*Why are the positions below excluded?*
For the simple reason that the movement of these positions must have been between "20th March to 25th March 2022". The movement of all these positions occurred before the last report. I'm just saying "you should have reported them during the correct time period".

*Transactions have not been reported correctly*
The records below should have been reported during the week of the "14th March 2022 to 18th March 2022". The positions should have been reported & included at the "record date" for the week they were actioned.

(1) SMR (14/3/2022)
(2) DYL (15/3/2022)
(3) PDN (15/3/2022)
(4) AGE (15/3/2022)
(5) PEN (15/3/2022)
(6) DYL (14/3/2022)





*Summary*
(DEV) is applicable to this week's report as the transaction date falls within the last trading period. You can't place buy & sell positions "before the last report", otherwise, that's fudging. I hope this clears up the confusion.

Skate.


----------



## Ann

Darn silly me, here I was thinking you could just pump in the figures and get an answer.


----------



## Skate

Ann said:


> Darn silly me, here I was thinking you could just pump in the figures and get an answer.




*My question*
Why didn't you report the transaction during the relevant period?



Ann said:


> plus trading on SMR *hasn't started* for me yet anyway.




*Also "SMR hasn't started for me yet" *- *What do you mean by this comment?*
You have listed (SMR) in your watchlist as being purchased. Correct me if I'm wrong. Doing what you have done compromises the accuracy of the reports & the relevance of the thread.

*PLEASE NOTE: You have placed (SMR) in your watchlist already*
You can place any trade at any time & get a result but that's not how Portfolio Management works.




Skate.


----------



## Ann

Skate said:


> *My question*
> Why didn't you report the transaction during the relevant period?



I decided after selling BST it was going to be a somewhat boring thread with simply four stocks to watch, so I just added the next lot of shares I bought using the new style of trading. This was interesting to me to see how I went. I am interested to see if it improves my bottom line. This whole thread was just for my benefit but all are welcome to peek in and see how it is all travelling of course.



Skate said:


> You have listed (SMR) in your watchlist as being purchased. Correct me if I'm wrong. Doing what you have done compromises the accuracy of the reports & the relevance of the thread.



I BPAYed Stanmore on the 14.3.22 for the value of the shares I was applying for. It was not until 25.3.22 they confirmed they would be accepting all offers for new shares. So on the 25.3.22 they published confirmation all applications were successful which meant I was holding $4990.70 worth of shares at $1.10. However, those new shares will not start trading until 1.4.22. As far as I was concerned I owned them, bought and paid for but simply would not be able to sell them until they are released for trading on the 1st of April. As I was not intending to sell them it is a moot point!



Skate said:


> *PLEASE NOTE: You have placed (SMR) in your watchlist already*
> You can place any trade at any time & get a result but that's not how Portfolio Management works.



Ahh right! So in other words my portfolio and its results are purely a mirage if it does not agree with a computer program? 
Got it!  
	

		
			
		

		
	




Well, I really appreciate the trouble you have gone to Skate, it has inspired me to actually want to see how I am going as opposed to just chucking it all into the accountant's hands at the end of the year and letting him sort it out.  It is really just the trading that appeals to me, if I am honest.

_Get's out old bakelite adding machine, drags out ancient, dog-eared, watermarked writing pad, licks the point of a lead pencil, has a psychological meltdown because it is arithmetic and begins to work out how the bloody portfolio is going. _

Don't wait up folks this is going to take me hours, 35% out of 100% was my very best maths score.


----------



## Ann

Well folks, you won't be seeing my calcs tonight, I totally stuffed it up by missing the proceeds from one of the sales...grrrr! I need to make an angry face emote but my brain has crumbled inside my cranium so not tonight!


----------



## Ann

OK I really need help with this. I shouldn't be trying to do this after midnight. I cannot possibly have a Portfolio percentage increase of 20.17%. I haven't even started to really trade yet after the downturn. I have clearly stuffed something up. All the figures are there. Just can't find my mistake, it will be easy and glaring I know!

Edit: I am already seeing a problem. It is the Doovie, I put the buy price in without the brokerage. I will fix it tomorrow.


----------



## Ann

Not a huge difference once the brokerage was added. But there is a substantial difference for the total of my holding on the Doovie to what I calculated in my additions. 52,883.20 as opposed to 49,705.64



	

		
			
		

		
	
.206


----------



## Ann

OK folks, I have gone over this and over it. I re-did the figures from the doovie and it only reduced it by a tad. It does look like my portfolio is up by 19.85% as at w/e 25.3.22. That figure is including SMR which will begin trading on the 1st April for the new issues.

Anyway, I have created a you-beaut table for the figure work. I can see it will be reasonably simple to keep it going after this first bit of work to set it up. I have a feeling there may be a bit of a dip in my holdings next week, so we will see how we are travelling. I will keep the new table until next week.

.....again, thanks very much to @Skate for all your kindness over the last few weeks with his program I am sorry I managed to confound your program!


----------



## Craton

Ann said:


> OK I really need help with this. I shouldn't be trying to do this after midnight. I cannot possibly have a Portfolio percentage increase of 20.17%. I haven't even started to really trade yet after the downturn. I have clearly stuffed something up. All the figures are there. Just can't find my mistake, it will be easy and glaring I know!
> 
> Edit: I am already seeing a problem. It is the Doovie, I put the buy price in without the brokerage. I will fix it tomorrow.
> 
> View attachment 139569



@Ann in my stock portfolio spreadsheet/s, I have three s/broking columns, one is the actual s/broker fee, the 2nd is the GST component of that fee and the 3rd is the total s/broking fee (Fee + GST = Total s/broking). This total is then added to the total purchase cost of the stock bought.
I know it seems it don't need the GST to be separate but I like to have it there for completeness plus, I can see have much the govt. is extruded from my stock plays. 

I do the same for the disposal side of the equation.

FWIW, if I have a DRP, SPP or some such, I really like seeing nothing entered into the s/broking columns. 

Thanks too for posting up your KISS, really like it, onya!


----------



## Ann

Craton said:


> @Ann in my stock portfolio spreadsheet/s, I have three s/broking columns, one is the actual s/broker fee, the 2nd is the GST component of that fee and the 3rd is the total s/broking fee (Fee + GST = Total s/broking). This total is then added to the total purchase cost of the stock bought.
> I know it seems it don't need the GST to be separate but I like to have it there for completeness plus, I can see have much the govt. is extruded from my stock plays.
> 
> I do the same for the disposal side of the equation.
> 
> FWIW, if I have a DRP, SPP or some such, I really like seeing nothing entered into the s/broking columns.
> 
> Thanks too for posting up your KISS, really like it, onya!




Thank you so much Craton for taking the time to share the way you organise your portfolio, your accountancy skills are admirable. I have to admit that reading your instructions broke my brain! 
	

		
			
		

		
	




I am going to keep my reporting as simple as possible with a starting point, stuff that happened along the way and how it looks currently, including brokerage and affiliated costs.  The rest I will leave up to my accountant who gets paid big dollars in an effort not to cause myself any further brain damage from attempting maths.

Now to further problems I have caused myself with my disabilities, in this case, dyslexia. When I was reading the instruction booklet from Stanmore Coal regarding the renounceable rights issue. I read it to say if you take up your rights you can request more new shares at the same $ price as the rights price. Noooo that is not what it said. What it really said was if you take up *all* your rights you can request more new shares at the same $ price as the rights price. So I would have had to take up the 9000 odd rights first, then you can ask for more shares after that. Meh, whatever.

So the upshot was I got 537 shares at $1.10 and the balance of the money I paid was shares issued as at the open on Thursday, this last bit I am guessing. So instead of 4537 shares at $1.10 I got 3222 at an average of $1.548. Not such a windfall after all and I am thinking about topping up my holdings if the price falls down closer to the 200ma at some later time. Because there is going to be a bit of potential complication from SMR I have decided to leave it as sold in my portfolio and replace it with the next stock I bought PH2 (already charted on its own thread) which was bought on the same day as DEV.  There is virtually no difference in the percentage increase from PH2 to SMR on Friday so I am not attempting to increase my percentage gain with the choice. 

Like all my recent purchases I am finding them all in stock screens on IC including PH2.

Here is my new results screen, hope it makes sense, if not let me know and I will tweak it.




...and the Doovie which I decided is probably called a portfolio tracker but will remain being called Doovie plus I have added the performance comparison for SMR and PH2 just for the heck of it.




As a final note,  there will be no more pictures of pussy cats for the time being and two platitudes were more than enough for me, any more and I think I would hurl!


----------



## Craton

Cheers Ann,
Thing is, keeping track  of Buys, Sells, DRP, SPP, Rights Issues etc, etc and then the CGT at tax time, now that's the real head scrambler, lol...

Thus to ease the burden, having well complied spreadsheets aka records is vital.
I primarily use two for the tax tracking.

One is the portfolio holdings spreadsheet that I have bought and sold. This is essential for long time holdings especially for Capital Returns and the re-calculation of the cost base.
I'm considering moving to a spreadsheet for each stock.

The other is for annual Div's where I track the franking/unfranked and any residual left over Div payment that wasn't applied to DRP for a particular stock.
E.g. Div = $100, DRP = $9.00 per share = 11 new shares and about 11c residual carried forward and added to the next DRP.

Of course with Excel, I can get fancy and have charts etc tracking performance for each stock and across the portfolio. Just basic stuff really as I'm not a trader per se.


----------



## Ann

Craton said:


> Thing is, keeping track of Buys, Sells, DRP, SPP, Rights Issues etc, etc and then the CGT at tax time, now that's the real head scrambler, lol...




We are actually talking about two different things here. I started this thread with the philosophy of a basic and simple thread to demonstrate a bit of trading of how I buy and how I sell simply looking to improve my broad, end result with better trading. You are talking about a total and complete accountancy portfolio management demonstration. This was never my intention as it would become incredibly complicated and pedantic and would simply be a personal chore I could never countenance.

What I wanted for this thread was best described in my first platitude* Simplicity boils down into two steps, identify the essential, eliminate the rest.*

 I gave myself a real budget of $50,000 for this thread. I bought 10 stocks averaging $5000 per stock including brokerage.
Along the way I sold 6 stocks and one set of rights, then I bought 6 stocks, had an increase from these activities added that, then I added any divs I received (not taking into account f credits). Then I added the weekly increase/decrease as displayed on the bank Doovie. Added it all together went to my you-beaut % calculator and simply found the % difference from first to last, simple!

I am hoping my new end of week table is laid out sufficiently clearly to demonstrate what I have just said in words. I tried to keep it as clear and simple as possible.

The essence of what I am trying to achieve with this thread can be condensed into a single word *improvement*.

OK, so seeing I already had this prepared let's just put up another *let's get simplified* pic.


----------



## Craton

@Ann, without looking/ reading fully ur above post (family day here) many apologies for detracting from your intention of simplicity, certainly wasn't what I intended. Will read fully when time allows.


----------



## Ann

Craton said:


> @Ann, without looking/ reading fully ur above post (family day here) many apologies for detracting from your intention of simplicity, certainly wasn't what I intended. Will read fully when time allows.



Absolutely no apologies required Craton, I am always very grateful for any interest taken in anything I have to say and it gave me an opportunity to explain to any readers exactly what I am trying to do, so your input is really valued, thank you!


----------



## Ann

Thanks for fixing the heading @Sean K. I think adding the word 'Trading' makes it clearer about the thread and its contents. Oversimplification can also be misleading!


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## Ann

Crikey it looks like I am going to cop a loss with another stock, it has been below my stop loss trigger for three days, my gut is saying hold, my brain is saying nuts to my guts!  Still, the portfolio is doing OK so far thanks to the U stocks mostly.


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## Captain_Chaza

CRIKEY!  1st officer ANN
This is not SIMPLE
It Is " VERY COMPLICATED" IMHO
Crikey!
If you think you are a Nut shell
You are probably a" NUT"
IMHO

Best of luck Sailing with nuts


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## Captain_Chaza

_Ahoy Brave and Loyal !st Officer Ann
I'll try to post you all TEN ( 10) charts before Monday's open

I am only here  to help  my most Brave and Loyal

XXXOOO_


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## Ann

Captain_Chaza said:


> Ahoy Brave and Loyal !st Officer Ann
> I'll try to post you all TEN ( 10) charts before Monday's open
> 
> I am only here to help my most Brave and Loyal
> 
> XXXOOO



I shall look forward to them, good Captain, I appreciate your loyalty. I love a good IC chart!


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## Captain_Chaza

Let's Start at the Beginning

Most people ask me if I am a Short Term, Medium Term or Long Term  trader
I always say NONE of the above

I am merely a Man of the Sea  ( as in Mankind )

I go as the Seas and Weather Conditions  Prevail

In the eyes of the" Technical" 
You must ALWAYS trust the readings you get from your instruments

I like to go to Sea on the ASX as the Seas and Weather conditions dictate

I use the Weekly charts and the Daily charts  to determine 
"HOW MUCH SAIL " I have presented to the Wind 
IE; One sail based on the weekly and One based on the daily readings

EG : Invest say  ~$5000 on your daily chart readings and ~ $5000 on your Weekly

It is amazing how you sometimes have TWO ( 2) sails presented to the wind 
and other times NONE  (0) sails presented to the Wind

Some become Short Term 
Some become Medium Term
and 
Some even become Long Term Bonanzas

ONLY the Seas and the Weather conditions dictate whether you are a Short term, Medium term, or Long term  Man or Woman of the SEA

PS; Charts to follow


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## Captain_Chaza

A4N
	

		
			
		

		
	







The Weekly suggests  Hold
The Daily suggests reef in HALF


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## Captain_Chaza

AGE  
What a Beauty! 
Well done !
I am very proud of you 1st mate Ann
The Weekly suggests  Hold on Tight
and
The Daily Suggests present the Full sail to the wind


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## Captain_Chaza

AXE
Crikey! What were you thinking
I'l bet you were talking to some  Fundamentalist Half Wit again 
The DAILY performance suggests "UNSEAWORTY
The WEEKLY instruments suggest Lower what's left and store down below


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## Captain_Chaza

AWC  
Seems too heavy in the water for my liking
in both the Weekly and Daily instruments
She Needs Steam or Nuclear power to send this one North

The only good thing about these types of Heavyweights is 
While you can't make much ground  going North 
You can't lose much going South 

And South she looks to be heading now


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## Captain_Chaza

BNKS

The  Weekly Chart shows that the good times are over
Reef in Half the Sail


The Daily Instruments suggests  Lower the other half of sail left standing on the mast 
and store below deck


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## Captain_Chaza

DEV
The WEEKLY suggests  HOLD ON TIGHT
The DAILY Suggests  HOLD ON TIGHT with Both Hands  and the Full Sail Presented to the wind


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## Captain_Chaza

DYL

The WEEKLY suggests HOLD ON TIGHT
The DAILY Suggests HOLD ON TIGHT with Both Hands and PRESENT the Full Sail to the Wind


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## Captain_Chaza

PDN 

The WEEKLY suggests HOLD ON TIGHT
The DAILY Suggests HOLD ON TIGHT with Both Hands and PRESENT the Full Sail to the Wind


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## Captain_Chaza

PEN

The WEEKLY suggests HOLD ON TIGHT
The DAILY Suggests HOLD ON TIGHT with Both Hands and PRESENT the Full Sail to the Wind


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## Captain_Chaza

PH2

The Weekly Chart suggests that she is certainly SEAWORTHY
Hold 
but The Daily Suggests some weakening in the Sea and Weather 
Best be in Sea-ready to reef in the sail in quick time


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## Captain_Chaza

PHEW!
That's Ann's Magnificent 10 and some not so magnificent

Dearest 1st mate Ann 
I hope you enjoy the charts

I give this advice on the Full Understanding that nobody ever takes on Free advice


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## Ann

My goodness me, you have pretty charts! I am amazed you can see anything through all the bling and ribbons! 
	

		
			
		

		
	




Thank you for all the work you have done, I think your thoughts are very interesting and I intend to look closer at what you are seeing although on a quick glance I am not disagreeing with anything you have said. I am very disappointed with the Aluminium stocks. I guess Aluminium has not come into fashion yet. I jumped in too soon. That was a touch of the fundamentals creeping in, silly thing to do when at sea as the only direction should be governed by the charts. I know this!




Captain_Chaza said:


> AXE
> Crikey! What were you thinking
> I'l bet you were talking to some Fundamentalist Half Wit again
> The DAILY performance suggests "UNSEAWORTY
> The WEEKLY instruments suggest Lower what's left and store down below




You truly believe I would buy or hold something like that Captain?! It is a freakin' stock standard pump and dump! Horrible.
Perhaps you meant to look at AKE?


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## Captain_Chaza

My SINCEREST Apologies to you 1st Officer Ann
Seems it was my ageing eyes  AXE and AKE are very tricky for us old men of the sea  
Probably too much RUM as well

I was shocked when I surveyed the AXE
It looked like a Poor selection of Landlubber

I never thought that you may have  selected the MAGNIFICENT AKE
This is much more your style and Well done

The WEEKLY survey suggests HOLD ON TIGHT
The DAILY survey suggests HOLD ON TIGHT with Both Hands and PRESENT the Full Sail to the Wind


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## Ann

Felt like pretty choppy seas this week, with one casualty and one new addition to the portfolio. I jettisoned BNKS, even though I think it will clamber back in time, I saw something I wanted and decided to take a loss in order to add the new one to the list.

I have been looking for a second Lithium stock, all those I have looked at have been too far above the 200dma. Finally, this little one appeared in my stock screen. At first, the chart looked a bit knocked around in its recent past but I tracked back to what all the drama was about and decided fair enough. They are telling a good story I am hoping this may have a bit more upside, I really like the chart, let's see how it travels.


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## Ann

...and now to look at how the portfolio travelled this week. Pretty rough week for most of the stocks but nothing was in any danger except BNKS. BNKS sold, INF bought.


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## Captain_Chaza

P2 is asking for challengers\
Do you want me to help you?
IN REAL TIME!   
LOL


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## Captain_Chaza

Ahoy there 1st Officer Ann
Please check out the MQR sail

Do you have her below deck
If so?
 Hoist her at DAWN
If you know what's good for you?


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## DaveTrade

Captain_Chaza said:


> Please check out the MQR sail



Way too much on this chart for me, it looks visually cluttered. Obviously you have trained your eye to it, I prefer to have more than one chart template each telling a particular story and then switch between them to see if the stories correlate.


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## Captain_Chaza

DaveTrade said:


> Way too much on this chart for me, it looks visually cluttered. Obviously you have trained your eye to it, I prefer to have more than one chart template each telling a particular story and then switch between them to see if the stories correlate.



These charts are not to be viewed as  ABSTRACT art
They are more in line with the  De Vinci style where each colour represents a well formulated Mathematical scenario against a black background

Of course I could do it all in Black and White but that would only be for the Colour blinded,  you and your types

Please take a black and white Photostat and see if it looks better to you
Good Luck


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## DaveTrade

Captain_Chaza said:


> These charts are not to be viewed as  ABSTRACT art
> They are more in line with the  De Vinci style where each colour represents a well formulated Mathematical scenario against a black background
> 
> Of course I could do it all in Black and White but that would only be for the Colour blinded,  you and your types
> 
> Please take a black and white Photostat and see if it looks better to you
> Good Luck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 140658



What is the point of posting a chart with a lot of lines on it if you have not labeled the lines. How can anyone get any benefit from this information without knowing what the lines represent. It's difficult to see where the ship is heading when it's in stormy weather.


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## tech/a

DaveTrade said:


> What is the point of posting a chart with a lot of lines on it if you have not labeled the lines. How can anyone get any benefit from this information without knowing what the lines represent. It's difficult to see where the ship is heading when it's in stormy weather.



Some are impressed with what seems to be complexity.
Reality is that there are just a few indicators like Bollinger, Various Parabolic SAR
and Resistance along with an RSI and the odd trend line.. All with no real predictive,
Anticipatory value, particularly in a range.


----------



## Ann

Goodness me, I had no idea all these discussions taking place down here until I came to put up my weekly progress. Sorry Captain, I was not ignoring you!



Captain_Chaza said:


> P2 is asking for challengers\
> Do you want me to help you?
> IN REAL TIME!
> LOL




Very kind of you my beloved Captain but I am my own challenger, I am competing with myself. I never compete with the next person as that might limit my progress by comparison. 



Captain_Chaza said:


> Ahoy there 1st Officer Ann
> Please check out the MQR sail
> 
> Do you have her below deck
> If so?
> Hoist her at DAWN
> If you know what's good for you?




That's annoying, I found MQR ages ago while it was travelling too high from the 200dma. Somehow I didn't add it to my Lithium list even though I had its details written on the chart. Never mind, let's see how INF travels. I think I only want two lithiums in my portfolio here as I am only going to hold 10 stocks for this exercise. I may add MQR to my main portfolio. Thanks for the heads up! However let's see how things go this next week, it may be a bit rough on the high seas. I may be able to buy in cheaper. 



DaveTrade said:


> What is the point of posting a chart with a lot of lines on it if you have not labeled the lines. How can anyone get any benefit from this information without knowing what the lines represent. It's difficult to see where the ship is heading when it's in stormy weather.




I think the benefit is entirely for the Captain and myself, I can read between the lines!  He has arrived at a place over the years, with indicators that speak to him. Charting is an art, no artist uses the same style. I am sure the Captain won't mind me saying he uses amongst other things Parabolic SAR, trailing stops, Keltner Channels, 200dsma plus a few more which is for the good Captain to know.





tech/a said:


> Some are impressed with what seems to be complexity.
> Reality is that there are just a few indicators like Bollinger, Various Parabolic SAR
> and Resistance along with an RSI and the odd trend line.. All with no real predictive,
> Anticipatory value, particularly in a range.




Some people have great foresight with what they can see on charts whether it be through a forest of decoration or the simplest hand-drawn lines. Perhaps your charts as you use them are not predictive for you John but for others, they can speak of what will happen in the future, sometimes years ahead. It is not a science but it is an art.


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## tech/a

We agree on one thing Ann
ART


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## Sean K

Captain_Chaza said:


> Ahoy there 1st Officer Ann
> Please check out the MQR sail
> 
> Do you have her below deck
> If so?
> Hoist her at DAWN
> If you know what's good for you?
> 
> View attachment 140654




This chart looks like a video game on a Commodore 64 from the 80s. Except it's in colour.


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## Ann

Well, there was some real damage to some of my stocks. AWC is sitting in the stop-loss zone, my uranium stocks look a lot worse for wear. I sold PDN on Thursday in preparation for buying it back at a cheaper price with the share purchase plan, glad I did as it would now be in the red by about 3.25%. I need to make the decision, do I apply for the SPP or wait and see if I can get it better than 72c if the markets continue to puke? I have to buy in by Tuesday to be eligible for the SPP.









tech/a said:


> Some are impressed with what seems to be complexity.
> Reality is that there are just a few indicators like Bollinger, Various Parabolic SAR
> and Resistance along with an RSI and the odd trend line.. All with no real predictive,
> Anticipatory value, particularly in a range.




Being dyslexic I need to read and re-read things over and over to get a true meaning. I responded to tech/a's comment on the previous post but then I read it again, thinking I had misinterpreted it. I hadn't but his words rang a bell for me.

For me reading charts could not be classed as _predictive_ as that is saying something_ is_ _going_ to happen. No, I can't say something_ will _happen but I feel with all confidence after reading my charts I can_ anticipate _what_ may _happen.

So therefore, chart reading by an experienced and competent chartist may well be _anticipatory _of future outcomes. 

I would strongly encourage everyone to work on chart reading, just download a free version of IC charts and play with them, I played with them for over a year back in about 2002, just learning and seeing patterns repeat and repeat, drawing lines and playing with all the indicators to see if anything could be seen. I wasn't taught by anyone, I just created my own style of what I could see. Later I learned party tricks like what was a pump and dump and how to calculate a swing trade from the genius chartists who used to frequent the now-defunct IC forums.

Perhaps like Tech/a you may never be able to read enough into a chart to give you any anticipation as to its future direction but some out there may well be able to learn the art of the chart.


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## Ann

tech/a said:


> We agree on one thing Ann
> ART



I guess some of us are artists and some of us aren't John.


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## tech/a

How do you think I trade ANN ?


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## Ann

Sean K said:


> This chart looks like a video game on a Commodore 64 from the 80s. Except it's in colour.



I need to take issue with you Sean, as a past PixelArt gallery director for DeviantArt, I need to tell you Commodore 64 had a limited colour pallet of 14 plus B&W colours it was not just black and white. Used by talented artists they could create a pallet that appeared to have far more colours than were seen.


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## Ann

tech/a said:


> How do you think I trade ANN ?



No idea John! Best guess with the toss of a coin!


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## Sean K

Ann said:


> I need to take issue with you Sean, as a past PixelArt gallery director for DeviantArt, I need to tell you Commodore 64 had a limited colour pallet of 14 plus B&W colours it was not just black and white. Used by talented artists they could create a pallet that appeared to have far more colours than were seen.
> 
> View attachment 140752




Maybe it was a Vic 20 that I recall.


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## Captain_Chaza

Looks like I have been Buried in the Back Pages again 

Please go to" Storm at Sea" 
Officer Rederob has pointed out a  few typo's there but I'll fix them up by Monday 
However 
"The charts are Indisputable"


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## Ann

Captain_Chaza said:


> Looks like I have been Buried in the Back Pages again
> 
> Please go to" Storm at Sea"



Pity it was berthed in Chat. I think a lot of people have Chat on ignore, myself included. Perhaps you could have berthed in Private ASF members forum, it can be moved if you would so desire. Much classier than Chat and more appropriate. 

My goodness, you have done an enormous amount of work with "Storm at Sea" and a grand yarn it is! As your loyal first mate if feel it is beholden on me to comment with some chart examples of my feelings about the coming storm and _anticipate_ how some may fare. 

This may be a rollicking great Thread and I am really looking forward to its passage, not to worry about typos! 
	

		
			
		

		
	





​


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## Ann

Ahh dear, it is so much more fun when the markets are going up. Bought a new one but no sales.

My little portfolio here seemed a bit heavy with Uranium stocks, so as I sold PDN last week in preparation to buying it back this week through a company SPP for 72c, which I did, I decided to take the opportunity to add a new stock and not put PDN back into KISS even with its new and improved percentage increase. I am trying to get a bit of new blood into KISS, just for interest's sake.

All my stocks, whilst dropping, didn't drop below the 200dma and were well away from their stop loss, so absolutely no reason to ditch any of them with the exception of AWC which was in trouble last week. Why haven't I sold? It appears Aluminium may bounce back up from the 200dma, I am thinking our market may well continue upward, could be quite wrong but let's see.

The chart of AWC also gives me a sense it will return back to higher levels. It bounced back above a long term rising support line, it has lifted back above its long term falling trendline and there appears a bit of a spring in its step, could all come crashing down of course, but I will leave it for another week and see how it is travelling.




As to the new one, it was doing OK until Friday when it had a fall and put me into the red but I wanted another coaler in my portfolio and decided to add it to KISS for fun. It is still fine, it dropped below the 200dsma but is still riding the 200dema and is also still above the stop loss level. Ignore the writing on the chart they are just notes for myself, most charts of mine have stuff scribbled on them, it is my lip service to fundamentals.

AHQ


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## Ann

Having never run a trading portfolio on a forum before I may not have set it up for a true picture by limiting it to a number of stocks. Perhaps I should have just limited it to the $50,000 starting figure. That would have been simpler, never mind I am not going to mess with it but I will show you the two stocks I intentionally sold to buy back and that is SMR and PDN but have since dropped from the KISS portfolio. SMR was bought back at 1.10 but I didn't get my full allotment. I got 3222 at 1.10 and have since added to the holding by an extra $5000 which itself is up 20% on its own not including the 3222.

Here is a little kiss plus doovie with how the original SMR and PDN are travelling to date. Of course, I am not adding it to my percentage increase for this week which is looking quite miserable! 
	

		
			
		

		
	




Now to the real Doovie which was actually in minus from this week's retrace.


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## Ann

On my newsfeed I get Zero Hedge which I find hard to take with dubious facts most of the time but occasionally he will quote from other business sites that can be very interesting. Today he had a very interesting link related to being a successful trader. I am always a sucker for articles like that, I am forever on the lookout for something which may improve my game. For want of a better place and because I want to find it again easily I will plonk it here, off topic but meh, my thread, my rules! 

Being A Successful Trader Is A Paradox

The trading aspect starts after the hospital observation.


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## Ann

What do they say? "Sell in May, go away". So far I have not sold any of my stocks.

When the markets get dodgy I have some points on charts that say "leave". Never one to outstay my welcome I watch for these signals. I am now seeing these signals.

The first one is the gapping down below the 200dma of the weekly Copper price chart. All things electrical need copper, copper is telling me it may not be needed for a while. This will cause a flow-on for all the other commodities associated with electrical products, retailers and a host of related goods and services.

The second one is the good old All Ordinaries. It has hit its head three times against its all-time high and failed, it has now fallen below a short term rising support line, it has struggled to rise above the 200dsma and has fallen below the 200dema three times. It is getting weaker and failing.

I intend to make an orderly exit of my entire stock holdings this coming week. I am certainly going to crystalize some losses, far more than I normally experience but that is fine as overall I am well up this year. This is my normal practice to sell my entire holding at a given signal, remain still and watch what happens, what sectors are braving the fall what stocks or rather groups of stocks are rising. I never assume or try to guess what will or will not rise, I wait for my charts to tell me. I have protected my capital and gains like this for the last 20 years. If I am wrong it is as easy as pie to buy back in. This is not a recommendation for others to leave the market. I am relatively conservative but for the more aggressive amongst us then fight on boys and good luck! 

COPPER weekly



ALL ORDINARIES daily


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## Ann

For some reason the Doovie from the bank is not working, none of my watch lists are displaying which is a real pain. I have done my best to compensate by copy-pasting from my main portfolio list. Should be fine. I have double-checked the figures. Not a pretty sight this week but I know I am not alone.


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## Ann

Sorry you didn't get an update on the weekend, I have been a bit under the weather. The thought of doing maths is the last thing I can cope with at the moment.

Here is the Doovie from last Friday, not a pretty picture but no percentage portfolio, so it looks worse than it is.  As I mentioned everything is up for sale, will I get my asking price, who knows? For anyone interested I have all my holdings on sale at their closing price of Friday May 6th.

I am convinced the markets are about to collapse and hope I will have enough time to exit without too much bloodshed.





However, maybe not so I think I will close with a song!


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## Ann

Sorry folks I am very unwell at the moment, so I will give you final Portfolio figures when I am up to doing them, suffice to say.....


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## sptrawler

Ann said:


> Sorry folks I am very unwell at the moment, so I will give you final Portfolio figures when I am up to doing them, suffice to say.....



Hope you get well soon Anne, look forward to your updates.


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## Captain_Chaza

sptrawler said:


> Hope you get well soon Anne, look forward to your updates.



Sorry to hear you are not well Braveheart

*"NOBODY is IMMUNE to SEA-SICKNESS"*

I promise you that you will be a lot Richer on Monday
I hope that makes you feel Better


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## Captain_Chaza

Ann said:


> Sorry folks I am very unwell at the moment, so I will give you final Portfolio figures when I am up to doing them, suffice to say.....
> 
> View attachment 142007



* Don't Do it Braveheart!

PLEASE  DON'T SELL IT ALL*

*JUST CHANGE TACK and 

BUY!      The Ags , Commods and Materials 

Once the world knows we have it all They will come a Sailing on the Magnificent and Sometimes Merciless ASX*


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## Captain_Chaza

Crikey! 
*Could someone Please move my above post to where it belongs
ie: Under MQR 
/December 2022 monthly Competition / or where ever it has to be Duplicated and Triplicated 

I would hate to lose this Month's Competition on a "Technicality"



Many thanks in advance *


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## peter2

@Ann noticed that your selections for the FY2022 comp are moving higher and you're now in the top 10. 

Please pass it on to Ann if you're able Capt.


----------

