# Car advice



## Julia (24 September 2010)

I'd be grateful for any suggestions on the following:

Have decided to replace my car.   I don't want a Ford, Holden, Toyota etc.
In the past very much enjoyed a couple of Mercedes Benz but don't like the current shape.

Never had a BMW and am thinking about maybe one a few years old but with under 50,000kms.  There's no dealership near here so would be dealing with Brisbane who seem prepared to drive up here to show a car that 'looks and sounds like what I want'.

What should I expect to pay for a 3 series (I'm so out of touch with the car market that I don't even know all the sub-sections here) as above?

Is it worth paying more and getting new?
That doesn't seem rational to me because I essentially just drive round locally, probably only do about 1000kms p.a. and usually have the dog in the back, drooling down the windows and shedding hair in the interior.

Is there some other make I should be considering?

Or should I just forget about it given my minimal use of a car, and stick with my quite functional but very old Mazda 626 (still only done 78,000 kms).

All suggestions would be appreciated.


----------



## breaker (24 September 2010)

Julia,

IMHO if you are only doing 1000k's a year I would stick with the one you have if it's giving no foreseeable trouble,and go on a holiday with the money you save .
Give none to the kids


----------



## Whiskers (24 September 2010)

Only a 1000kms p.a. Julia... you aught to get a wheeled dog sled. Good dog exercise and way cheaper than a pretty much garaged car. 

But seriously, I actually watched around the car auctions and ebay for awhile and actually got my last one off ebay at a considerable discount to car yard and redbook http://www.redbook.com.au/  price. 

You can register with Pickles for free and see online what they sell for at auction before you decide. This is the current BMW listing http://www.pickles.com.au/cars/list...=description&ed_search_type=AUCTION&x=19&y=11

http://www.manheimfowles.com.au/ is another big one in Bris, but they want a $500 deposit before you can register to bid or view auctions online. You can view onsite for free though.


----------



## Sdajii (24 September 2010)

If I was only driving 1,000km per year I don't think I'd bother owning a car at all, let alone buying an expensive one.

Buying a new one seems pointless since you're going to pay a fortune, watch it devalue while it's not even being used, then sell it down the track to someone like me who won't care about a bit of dog hair and will be gleeful about getting an absolute bargain - something which has barely been driven but is cheap due to its age and dog hair. If you were looking at a model I was interested in I'd tell you to buy it now and call me when it's time to sell


----------



## Boggo (24 September 2010)

Julia, I have owned only Honda's since 1992. I currently have an Accord Euro that I bought new a few years ago and I am very satisfied with it.
Prior to that I had a Honda Prelude that got snapped up when I advertised it privately.

For the amount you would drive it I would suggest a second hand Honda, they last forever.

I have a mate who has a Magna, we stir him about how it doubles in value when he fills it with petrol and why he shouldn't park it near the beach as coastal erosion could outrun it  

Mazda's and VW Golf's seem to be popular with my extended family members, just don't take a VW to a VW dealer to get serviced unless you have money to burn.

Just my


----------



## Whiskers (24 September 2010)

Boggo said:


> For the amount you would drive it I would suggest a second hand Honda, they last forever.




Yeah people tell me that too... but aparently Subaru's last longer.



> I have a mate who has a Magna, we stir him about how it doubles in value when he fills it with petrol and why he shouldn't park it near the beach as coastal erosion could outrun it




lol... 



> Mazda's and VW Golf's seem to be popular with my extended family members, just don't take a VW to a VW dealer to get serviced unless you have money to burn.
> 
> Just my




I heard that Hitler ordered VW to make the 'Beetle' as an economical people car. Turned me off them a bit more.  ... or maybe we should celebrate something good that Hitler did. 

But yes I agree, service and parts seem to becoming more expensive relatively than buying a car. I have older Suzuki and Daewoo models atm and have found my own parts suppliers for oil filters, suspension and most other parts considerably cheaper than dealer part prices and supply my mechanic with them each service or repair job.

PS: If you are really miserly, sometimes you can get a damaged vehicle "Repairable Write off" as opposed to Written Off (never to be re-registered) pretty cheap if you have the resources or contacts to repair cheaply.


----------



## Logique (24 September 2010)

Hi Julia, 

I'm not a car dealer or any kind of auto expert. So it's just a personal opinion: unless it's a complete rust bucket, at 78000 km just keep your Mazda 626. 

If was buying a new car it would be the new Hyundai ix35 compact SUV, it's very impressive on value and utility. Here is a link to a review and a picture: http://www.carsguide.com.au/site/news-and-reviews/car-reviews-road-tests/hyundai_ix35_review

As a car manufacturer, Hyundai have come a long way in a short number of years.


----------



## Logique (24 September 2010)

And I forgot,
check that your 10yro Mazda 626 will run on ethanol fuel (E10)


----------



## skc (24 September 2010)

Julia said:


> I'd be grateful for any suggestions on the following:
> 
> Have decided to replace my car.   I don't want a Ford, Holden, Toyota etc.
> In the past very much enjoyed a couple of Mercedes Benz but don't like the current shape.
> ...




Julia, reading your post again it sounds like you have actually already made up your mind! It's pretty obvious you just want someone to tell you to spoil yourself and get that Beemer 

I say do it. What is the point of having too much money in the bank? If you are normally a saver, spend up a bit every now and then is not really an issue. Of course if you re-mortgage the house to get that car then I would suggest you sell the old Mazda as well!

For 1000km each year taxis are almost cheaper - granted that your dog will have to run behind you.


----------



## Calliope (24 September 2010)

skc said:


> For 1000km each year taxis are almost cheaper - granted that your dog will have to run behind you.




To travel 20k a week a taxi would certainly be cheaper. However as it is not a money problem, but more a "look at me" factor. I would suggest a Prius.


----------



## Sdajii (24 September 2010)

Calliope said:


> To travel 20k a week a taxi would certainly be cheaper.




Pretty big understatement there!



Calliope said:


> However as it is not a money problem, but more a "look at me" factor. I would suggest a Prius.




I'd suggest a change of attitude from "I'll spend a heap of money and planetary resources on a vanity item" to "It's insane and selfish to waste all those resources on a car I won't even use when most of the world can scarcely feed itself and we're not too far off environmental disaster", but all the same, each to their own, and as someone using a computer in a comfortable house who just ate a hot meal, I'd be hypocritical if I held it against her.


----------



## Julia (24 September 2010)

Calliope said:


> However as it is not a money problem, but more a "look at me" factor. I would suggest a Prius.



I suspected I'd regret putting the question up.
It's nothing to do with a 'look at me' factor, for god's sake.  Just a vehicle I've always liked.  I could spend the same money on a new Holden/Ford/Toyota etc as I'd spend on a used BMW, and you wouldn't be flinging about the same specious accusation.

Since having to start from scratch again financially in my mid 30's after leaving a marriage with my life but nothing else, I worked hard for many years, saved and went without for more than a decade until I was able to be financially independent.  During those years I worked fulltime and studied with no holidays.

I wouldn't be thinking about it if I couldn't afford it, so I'm damned if I should feel guilty if I entertain the thought of a new car, well, rather a second hand one.

To those of you who offered your genuine and absolutely practical suggestions, I thank you very much.

And especially to SKC who 'got what I was on about'.

All the practical stuff is quite correct, and it's what I've been telling myself for several years, but I really don't want to end up as representative of that old cliche - 'the richest person in the cemetery'.


----------



## Julia (24 September 2010)

Sdajii said:


> Pretty big understatement there!
> 
> 
> 
> I'd suggest a change of attitude from "I'll spend a heap of money and planetary resources on a vanity item" to "It's insane and selfish to waste all those resources on a car I won't even use when most of the world can scarcely feed itself and we're not too far off environmental disaster", but all the same, each to their own, and as someone using a computer in a comfortable house who just ate a hot meal, I'd be hypocritical if I held it against her.



What gives you the right to make a judgement about me, Sdajii?
You know absolutely nothing about what deprivations I may have gone through to be in my present position.  And you know nothing about my age, my health, projected longevity.

Perhaps you'd be good enough to explain to me how my not buying a used car somewhat younger than my present model is going to assist someone in a developing country who is having trouble feeding himself/herself?

How do you know what I might already be contributing to such a cause?
And various others, for that matter.

I simply asked advice about an area about which I'm completely out of touch, and was looking for what is reasonable value for money.

I was not seeking moral advice, and am most appreciative to those ASF members who offered genuine responses.

Sdajii:  It's not your business how I choose to spend my money.


----------



## Julia (24 September 2010)

A further question which I can refer to Fair Trading next week, but someone might know:  re a warranty on either new or used vehicle, is this invalidated if the vehicle is not serviced by a dealership of that make?

No way in the world would I be taking any car down to Brisbane to have it serviced.


----------



## Calliope (24 September 2010)

Julia said:


> A further question which I can refer to Fair Trading next week, but someone might know:  re a warranty on either new or used vehicle, is this invalidated if the vehicle is not serviced by a dealership of that make?
> 
> No way in the world would I be taking any car down to Brisbane to have it serviced.




That certainly simplifies matters. Buy the cheapest new car from a local dealership.


----------



## Ardyne (24 September 2010)

You said you'd had a couple of old mercs. I lovem. I'd really like to get my hand on a nice w116 series 230 or 280te station wagon. great to drive, pretty safe even now (but no air bags). great build quality. Ihave a mid 70's w107 280sl sitting in the garage that my father left me when he passed away . In running order but waiting till the kids get out of my hair so I have time to strip it back a bit and give it a new lease of life.

p.s no advice on the new car sorry only to say lifes pretty short so get something youre gonna like to get into , whether it be a mini or a hummer


----------



## Smurf1976 (24 September 2010)

Julia said:


> A further question which I can refer to Fair Trading next week, but someone might know:  re a warranty on either new or used vehicle, is this invalidated if the vehicle is not serviced by a dealership of that make?
> 
> No way in the world would I be taking any car down to Brisbane to have it serviced.



You may want to get formal advice on this for legal reasons etc.

But my understanding is that a manufacturer can not invalidate a warranty simply because the car has been serviced by someone other than their dealership provided that the actual servicing done is "by the book" to manufacturer's requirements.

So, any mechanic can do it. But they have to do the servicing as per the manufacturer's requirements.

There's plenty of independent mechanics doing "logbook services" which retain the manufacturer's warranty.

As for whether or not you "should" buy a new car - that's up to you. Personally, I quite like having a reliable but older car simply because it _doesn't_ attract attention in any way. Plenty of 10 year old cars on the road, mine is just another one like the rest and I like it that way. I've owned it since new, only done 77,000 km so far so I intend keeping it for a while yet (maybe literally another 10 years). Comes down to personal choice - do what suits you, not what someone else says.


----------



## Whiskers (24 September 2010)

Julia said:


> A further question which I can refer to Fair Trading next week, but someone might know:  re a warranty on either new or used vehicle, is this invalidated if the vehicle is not serviced by a dealership of that make?
> 
> No way in the world would I be taking any car down to Brisbane to have it serviced.




Julia, I agree with Smurf. Places like Ultratune http://www.ultratune.com.au/ do them and claim they can legally service under new car warranty for 30% odd cheaper. I don't know about used car warranties though.

Used car dealer warranties are much shorter as you probably know, and in my experience often put a cluase like conditional on the servicing being done in their designated workshop. 

What I do for used vehicles is use the common and statutary law provisions to the max whether private or dealer purchases... ie ask all the questions about condition and history and get it in writing as much as you can and so long as you get it properly serviced by a reputable service centre, if something goes wrong or is found to be different to their description , you still have legal recourse especially on the dealer regardless of where you got it serviced.

*I'm a bit scheptical of used car warranties cos too often the dealerships fudge problems up to just last their warranty period.* That's why I always use my own mechanic.

It's a bit harder with a private or Auction purchase. That's where you would be looking for a considerable discount to redbook or 'usual' car yard price. But none-the-less they are still held to an 'implied' legal warranty to the condition and specifications they represent at time of sale. 

The trick is to get them going in writing or in front of a witness (ideally someone mechanically qualified, but acts a bit 'dumb' on the day) to answer heaps of questions.

If no Safety Certificate is displayed, ask for it and have a look at what was done to get it certified and even check out the reputation of the certifier who issued it.

Even buying from a dealer these days if you don't have a good eye for the signs of repairs, you should ask whether the vehicle has ever been classified as a statutory writeoff, or a repairable writeoff. http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Registrat...ff-vehicles/Written-off-vehicle-register.aspx

You can check for yourself if you have any doubts.  http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Registration/Registering-vehicles/Written-off-vehicles.aspx


----------



## ghotib (25 September 2010)

At the risk of going slightly off-topic, have you considered one of these? They're made in Sydney, beautifully engineered, and fantastic fun for both travellers:

http://www.rjwalsh.com.au/mini/index.htm

Cheers,

Ghoti


----------



## explod (25 September 2010)

Had a 180E merk for 12 years, never misses a beat and still very economiical.  They say parts are expensive, never ever needed any parts it refuses to ever break down.  60,000 ks for each set of tyres.  I dont' cycle them, just moved front to back.  Have a very good grease monkey though, good service every 10,000 vital.

Some very good second hand mercs with low miliage are very good value IMHO

My hylux ute is also another going that never breaks down and is economic.  Brought it off a retiring farmer when it had 100,000 ks 8 years ago.

Jags often have electrical problems, dont know about others in the top range.

Only get what you pay for though.


----------



## glenn_r (25 September 2010)

Julia said:


> A further question which I can refer to Fair Trading next week, but someone might know:  re a warranty on either new or used vehicle, is this invalidated if the vehicle is not serviced by a dealership of that make?
> 
> No way in the world would I be taking any car down to Brisbane to have it serviced.




Any qualified mechanic can service your car even if it's under a manufacturers warranty.

The dealers like to bluff people to get them to have their new cars serviced at the dealership by a 1st year apprentice and charge $150 per hour plus consumables...

I'm in the motor trade and some of the stories you hear about the prices dealerships charge for servicing and repairs are amazing.


----------



## sval62 (25 September 2010)

Julia,I think you should go for a black Chrysler 300c the gangster look would be
       enhanced with muttly sitting in the passenger seat slobbering all over the
       leather seats.

On second thoughts just go for a 3 series Beemer,they are a top quality vehicle
and will depreciate less than Holdens,Fords Toyotas,and Mazdas.
Please steer away from E10 fuel, it might be a few cents cheaper,but it gives 
you less Ks per Lt and the majority of engines are not designed for this low
octane fuel.
      Go on spoil yourself


----------



## Smurf1976 (25 September 2010)

sval62 said:


> Please steer away from E10 fuel, it might be a few cents cheaper,but it gives
> you less Ks per Lt and the majority of engines are not designed for this *low
> octane* fuel.



Addition of ethanol to petrol increases, not decreases, the octane rating of the resultant mix.

Typically in Australia, regular ULP (RON 91) is blended with about 10% ethanol resulting in a mix with RON about 94. By comparison, premium unleaded is RON 95, and the high octane fuels at the servo (BP Ultimate etc) are RON 98.

Ethanol does however have a lower energy content per litre than petrol, hence you'll use more of it in a properly tuned vehicle. However, it is also an oxygenate such that if the engine is otherwise running rich, it will improve combustion and may actually decrease fuel consumption.

All that said, it is possible that someone may be importing low octane petrol (ie less than RON 91 and not complaint with Australian specifications) and adding ethanol so as to bring the RON up to 91, equivalent to regular ULP. Stick to the major fuel companies which operate their own refineries (Caltex, BP, Shell, Mobil) and this shouldn't be a problem but it could be with the small operators who may be sourcing petrol from just about anywhere.


----------



## Calliope (25 September 2010)

Julia said:


> I wouldn't be thinking about it if I couldn't afford it, so I'm damned if I should feel guilty if I entertain the thought of a new car, well, rather a second hand one.
> 
> To those of you who offered your genuine and absolutely practical suggestions, I thank you very much.
> 
> And especially to SKC who 'got what I was on about'.




I'm sorry if I mis-interpreted what you were "on about." All I can say in my defence is that when you stipulated "I don't want a Ford, Holden, Toyota etc," I rashly assumed that you wanted a vehicle that would stand out from the common herd.


----------



## Happy (25 September 2010)

Noticed that very often BMW is stolen or even carjacked from the owner for getaway car.
Suppose not all BMW’s qualify for that purpose.

Feel like hi-mileage driver with my 17 years old car and over 102,000 on the meter 

Not sure if I’ll do it, but my next car might be Honda, so many people say they are reliable and even NSW NRMA back it up with statistics on Honda reliability.


----------



## nunthewiser (25 September 2010)

Calliope said:


> that you wanted a vehicle that would stand out from the common herd.




my only input here is how about a Harley with a sidecar?

dogs look cute in goggles and the mutt is dry before you get back home.

oh not to forget how much "coolness" status one will recieve at the local CWA meetings.

should be more of it i say.

go the saints


----------



## nunthewiser (25 September 2010)

here is a dog in a sidecar.

coolest pup in the pound.


----------



## Julia (25 September 2010)

Whiskers said:


> Used car dealer warranties are much shorter as you probably know, and in my experience often put a cluase like conditional on the servicing being done in their designated workshop.



Thanks, Whiskers.  Yes, I recall the last time I bought a used car with one of these warranties, something went wrong after a few months, but of course it 'wasn't covered' by the warranty.  



> What I do for used vehicles is use the common and statutary law provisions to the max whether private or dealer purchases... ie ask all the questions about condition and history and get it in writing as much as you can and so long as you get it properly serviced by a reputable service centre, if something goes wrong or is found to be different to their description , you still have legal recourse especially on the dealer regardless of where you got it serviced.
> 
> *I'm a bit scheptical of used car warranties cos too often the dealerships fudge problems up to just last their warranty period.* That's why I always use my own mechanic.



Ah, just what I've been thinking following the BMW Brisbane salesman (when I said there was no way I'd be bringing any car down there to be serviced) offered that they would drive up here, collect the car, take it back and service it, then return it *at no additional charge*
Yeah, right.



> You can check for yourself if you have any doubts.  http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Registration/Registering-vehicles/Written-off-vehicles.aspx



Thank you, Whiskers.



glenn_r said:


> Any qualified mechanic can service your car even if it's under a manufacturers warranty.
> 
> The dealers like to bluff people to get them to have their new cars serviced at the dealership by a 1st year apprentice and charge $150 per hour plus consumables...
> 
> I'm in the motor trade and some of the stories you hear about the prices dealerships charge for servicing and repairs are amazing.



I'm not surprised to hear that, Glenn.  Thanks for confirmation about the warranty situation which is as I thought.




sval62 said:


> Julia,I think you should go for a black Chrysler 300c the gangster look would be
> enhanced with muttly sitting in the passenger seat slobbering all over the
> leather seats.



Um, sval62, for some strange reason, I'm having a bit of difficulty lining myself up with the gangster look!  Not sure I'd be too convincing.




> On second thoughts just go for a 3 series Beemer,they are a top quality vehicle
> and will depreciate less than Holdens,Fords Toyotas,and Mazdas.
> Please steer away from E10 fuel, it might be a few cents cheaper,but it gives
> you less Ks per Lt and the majority of engines are not designed for this low
> ...



Thanks for the encouragement.



Calliope said:


> I'm sorry if I mis-interpreted what you were "on about." All I can say in my defence is that when you stipulated "I don't want a Ford, Holden, Toyota etc," I rashly assumed that you wanted a vehicle that would stand out from the common herd.



Thanks, Calliope, no problem.  It's to do with a car that I really like and which will make me smile when I drive it, if that doesn't sound too silly.
None of the, um, common breeds manage to do that.  And I'm probably influenced by the past experiences of driving the European cars.



nunthewiser said:


> my only input here is how about a Harley with a sidecar?
> 
> dogs look cute in goggles and the mutt is dry before you get back home.
> 
> oh not to forget how much "coolness" status one will recieve at the local CWA meetings.



Very cute photo, Nun.  Sadly, I think I'll have to forgo the 'coolness' factor in favour of the comfort factor, but thanks for making me laugh.

I do appreciate all the responses.  Having had no interest in the car market for so long, I'm quite out of touch.
Have also had a look at Peugot and Audi.  Anyone have any experience of these?


----------



## Slipperz (25 September 2010)

nunthewiser said:


> here is a dog in a sidecar.
> 
> coolest pup in the pound.




ROTFLMAO that is an absolute classic picture. Bwahahahahahahaha


----------



## 1q2w3e4r (25 September 2010)

Stick with the Merc's better built, more reliable and will run for years longer than the BMWs.   Lots of the run of the mill 3 series aren't made in Germany but are bolted up together in South Africa.  You've got to buy something with an ///M badge on it to be absolutely sure its from Europe without going into breaking down VIN numbers etc.


----------



## ColB (25 September 2010)

Very nice build and drive quality in the Merc's and Beemers and can be very reasonably priced second hand.  Probably a very smart way to buy a prestigous car unless you're loaded and then it doesn't matter does it.

I had a Merc E230 Elegance and it drove beautifully.  Only sold it to buy a Renault Laguna cheap off my sister and because the Merc was getting on.

You'll pay more at the dealer so if you want to save a few dollars apply the same research and logic you do to your share purchases as you would to buying a car.

One word of advice with private sales! Steer clear of Mohammed selling a  car with re-registered plates, from Queensland suburbs that are similar to the Lakemba of Sydney or the Broadmeadows of Melbourne and because he is going overseas.  This could be a recipe for disaster.


----------



## todster (25 September 2010)

Forums are a good source before you take the plunge, car problems are never unique.
Been on ford forums for years,you can tell mechanic what's wrong before they look.
another tip is when getting your car serviced always leave them your spare keys the look on there face is priceless when you have a disagreement and walk out to your car start it up and yell from the window post me the bill,they can keep the spare for all I care.:


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (25 September 2010)

Agree with all of above Julia. A BMW is a reliable motor.

Remember that 2nd hand car dealers are doing it tough.

3 phrases worth remembering when bargaining

1.  I have a cash flow problem.
2.  Is that your lowest price.
3.  I have a cash flow problem.

Not in any particular order.

gg


----------



## Julia (25 September 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Agree with all of above Julia. A BMW is a reliable motor.
> 
> Remember that 2nd hand car dealers are doing it tough.
> 
> ...



Thanks to all for further advice which is much appreciated.

gg, is the 'I have a cash flow problem' designed to get them to lower the price?
Would definitely be doing the 'Is that your lowest price" thing.

Is being seen to be able to pay cash a plus or a minus?  i.e. if a price is negotiated on the basis of some credit, can one then propose that if said credit is not required and they will get cod, that should bring the price down further?

Gee whiz, fellas, wish I could just hand this whole thing over to you to sort out on my behalf!


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (25 September 2010)

Julia said:


> Thanks to all for further advice which is much appreciated.
> 
> gg, is the 'I have a cash flow problem' designed to get them to lower the price?
> Would definitely be doing the 'Is that your lowest price" thing.
> ...




Firstly Julia you can do this yourself.

It's a  game, a trading game, whereby you are trying to buy an asset for the 
best possible price.

The dealer is trying to sell at the best possible price.

Some folk fall in love with cars and pay the top price. Others go to auctions and pay the least. I , like you am in the middle.

As a buyer you are in a very strong position ATM. Due to gfc etc.

The dealers can transport cars about the country quite easily and cheaply, so , if you have fallen in love with one car you need to keep this in mind. Someone in Karratha may be in love too!

The best days to buy is Friday as it is end of week for accounts.
Equally end of month is good as well.
I generally buy vehicles at end of quarter, as behind the salesmen are an army of spreadsheet men who are fixated on the balance sheet and the next board meeting.

So next week would be a good time to buy.

My general tack when buying vehicles is to establish the figure they want for onroad with all the extras. Then I check with redbook as to what a private and trade in sale would get.

I then waste as much of their time as I can to get the price I consider fair.

It is vitally important to check the price you will pay, versus then price they quote you will pay.

As a buyer you are in an incredibly strong position.

Love as always complicates things.


Gg


----------



## Sdajii (26 September 2010)

Julia said:


> What gives you the right to make a judgement about me, Sdajii?
> You know absolutely nothing about what deprivations I may have gone through to be in my present position.  And you know nothing about my age, my health, projected longevity.
> 
> Perhaps you'd be good enough to explain to me how my not buying a used car somewhat younger than my present model is going to assist someone in a developing country who is having trouble feeding himself/herself?
> ...





Amusing  You asked for advice, I gave some. When you ask for advice, it may or may not be offered. If it is and you like it, take it, if not, discard it, it costs nothing and carries no obligation  This is the internet, no need to get upset about words on a screen coming from a stranger 

You're right, I don't know what your age or financial situation is, although from your posts I gather you're not a spring chicken and you're not poor either. I have no idea what path led you to where you are, and frankly, I'm not fussed.

My point was that we live in a very extravagant society, where we pour resources into something like a car we don't even need, while most of the world would be happy just to know that they were going to have a hot meal every day and a warm, safe place to sleep every night. If you want to buy an expensive, unnecessary car, knock yourself out, I didn't say I'd think you were evil, although many starving people in the world will. As I have already pointed out, I am also a western person and guilty of the same thing, probably not to the same extent, but I'm not trying to claim any moral ground. I just think it's a little extravagant to buy a luxury car you're not even going to use (1,000km per year isn't using a car, in my opinion). You asked for comment, I gave it, throw it away if it pleases you, or if you prefer, get upset and not only take offense, but extrapolate it to imaginations of me commenting on multiple areas of your life! Your choice, it costs nothing either way


----------



## skc (26 September 2010)

Julia said:


> I do appreciate all the responses.  Having had no interest in the car market for so long, I'm quite out of touch.
> Have also had a look at Peugot and Audi.  Anyone have any experience of these?




I hired a 2009 Peugot 207i on my holidays and it's a very zippy car with great style, acceleration, suspension and steering. We drove it at the lakes district in UK with hilly, windy roads and it was perfect for it.

I drove an AUDI A4 diesel (not my own) a few years back and was very unimpressed. The engine sounded terrible and power delivery was poor. Visibility was also on the poor side.

The several merc's I've driven are only OK. I like the solid feel of mercs and their reliability, but never the acceleration and brakes. The pedal always seem to not respond well when you initially press them down, then when you press harder to try to get some response, it jerks forward making it an uncomfortable ride. The brakes are also too sensitive for me. Then again it's probably because of my driving style - I like smooth, accelerator-control driving. Steering is a bit on the heavy side.

The car I like the most is a Lexus 200i (now discontinued). Excellent handling, smooth as anything acceleration and braking. The newer 250i are also just as good. 

BTW I never owned any of the above cars... I am just lucky to know someone who does and drives for them every now and then...


----------



## nunthewiser (27 September 2010)

Sdajii said:


> Amusing
> This is the internet, no need to get upset about words on a screen coming from a stranger
> 
> 
> I just think it's a little extravagant to buy a luxury car you're not even going to use (1,000km per year isn't using a car, in my opinion)





I own 2 Harleys, 3 licensed cars,1 unlicensed project car , 2 boats and numerous other toys.
i cant play with them all at the same time and sometimes wont touch them for months on end.
i am obviously evil and need to reconsider how to spend my own hard earned cash in the future.

by the way i think your use of the internet for general chat on forums is rather extravagent , when, seeing as your pc and internet bill could feed a family also , so why not do the world a favour and sell them now so you can do your bit for mankind.

unreal.


----------



## Sdajii (27 September 2010)

I already made the same point myself, twice


----------



## Julia (27 September 2010)

skc said:


> I hired a 2009 Peugot 207i on my holidays and it's a very zippy car with great style, acceleration, suspension and steering. We drove it at the lakes district in UK with hilly, windy roads and it was perfect for it.
> 
> I drove an AUDI A4 diesel (not my own) a few years back and was very unimpressed. The engine sounded terrible and power delivery was poor. Visibility was also on the poor side.
> 
> ...



Thanks, skc.  Much appreciated.



nunthewiser said:


> I own 2 Harleys, 3 licensed cars,1 unlicensed project car , 2 boats and numerous other toys.
> i cant play with them all at the same time and sometimes wont touch them for months on end.
> i am obviously evil and need to reconsider how to spend my own hard earned cash in the future.
> 
> ...



So I'm a model of moral and fiscal rectitude in comparison!
It looks as though you can hold yourself responsible for the demise of at least a whole African nation due to your extravagance, Nun.



Sdajii said:


> You asked for advice, I gave some.



I asked for advice about cars because it's not my area of expertise and because I'm out of touch.
I did not ask for a moral assessment of my character.
Thank you all the same.


----------



## Sdajii (27 September 2010)

Julia said:


> I did not ask for a moral assessment of my character.
> Thank you all the same.




I didn't actually make one, it was your choice to take it that way. Anyway, I think this line of conversation has run its course.


----------



## marklar (27 September 2010)

I've owned Audis in the past and wouldn't buy one 2nd hand, got rid of each of mine after about 5 years and they were in need of some expensive repairs.

Currently driving a 2009 320d and I love it, not the first diesel or BMW I've owned but well worth the money.

m.


----------



## nulla nulla (27 September 2010)

G'day Julia. In considering bmw's have you considered the BMW X3. This is functional without being one of those over the top 4X4's and I suspect your dawg would love the elevated perspective for watching the world go by.


----------



## Julia (27 September 2010)

Thanks, Marklar and Nulla Nulla.

The servicing looks like being a potential problem because I live in a regional area with no local agent for either BMW, Audi or Peugeot.

As mentioned earlier, the dealership cannot legally invalidate the warranty if the car is serviced outside a brand dealership, but my local mechanic tells me they can make it very, very difficult, in that the dealership has its own specific software for the servicing according to the requirements in the logbook, and they will not make this available to non-dealer mechanics.

Heard one horror story today from someone who had had Peugeot which was off the road for weeks while the arguments went on.

Sigh!

So now into the mix is thrown the Mazda 6 Wagon which can have the black cloth trim (which I dislike and which attracts doghair)  replaced with leather in choice of colour.  This is a reasonably attractive vehicle, and with a local dealership (which is happy to accommodate my own mechanic) the potential hassles of service problems wouldn't exist.
The wagon provides very adequate dog space in the tail, with cargo barrier.
They would throw in rubber type flooring to sit on top of carpet in tailgate.


It would be very much a compromise.

Don't want to try anyone's patience out there with my vacillating, but are there any experiences of service on BMW or Peugeot outside of a dealership?

Thanks again.

Attached is photo of the Mazda 6 wagon which has some resemblance to the Peugeot.


----------



## Logique (28 September 2010)

Julia said:


> ...the Mazda 6 Wagon...This is a reasonably attractive vehicle, and with a *local dealership* (which is happy to accommodate my own mechanic) the potential hassles of service problems wouldn't exist.



Now you're on the right track Julia. Service and parts are essential considerations in the overall package. I'm tipping that BMW parts won't be coming cheap, and could well be delays in ordering them in.

Mazdas as a rule are well-finished, reliable, value for money and resale value holding cars.  And with Mazda dealerships around the place for when you go travelling. Why put yourself through that prestige car nonsense?

That Mazda 6 wagon looks a beaut car to me. (No I'm not a Mazda dealer)


----------



## DocK (28 September 2010)

Would love a BMW X5, but sadly has to make do with a Holden Captiva.  I have heard that both the servicing and particularly the tyres for the X5 are very expensive - I believe the tyres are unique to BMW and cannot be replaced with nonBMW-specific ones? Might be a consideration if you can get around the servicing by local mechanic issue.

I do know several happy Mazda 6 owners - nobody seems to have had any issues to speak of, although they are a run-of-the-mill car -  have you considered a Volvo XC60 or V50??


----------



## Kimberly (28 September 2010)

Hi Julia,

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I've been wondering for the longest time, how your little puppy is doing?


----------



## Julia (28 September 2010)

Logique said:


> Now you're on the right track Julia. Service and parts are essential considerations in the overall package. I'm tipping that BMW parts won't be coming cheap, and could well be delays in ordering them in.
> 
> Mazdas as a rule are well-finished, reliable, value for money and resale value holding cars.  And with Mazda dealerships around the place for when you go travelling. Why put yourself through that prestige car nonsense?



Not because it's a 'prestige' car, Logique, just that I've always really admired them and have been a bit surprised to find that a used BMW with under 50kms, around 2 or 3 years old, can be acquired for less than many new 'ordinary' cars.
Have now found a local mechanic who services all the European cars, probably would indeed be more expensive but given my low km use, it's not going to happen all that often other than routine oil change etc.




> That Mazda 6 wagon looks a beaut car to me. (No I'm not a Mazda dealer)



It is nice.  Especially if it gets the leather trim instead of the ubiquitous black cloth.




DocK said:


> Would love a BMW X5, but sadly has to make do with a Holden Captiva.  I have heard that both the servicing and particularly the tyres for the X5 are very expensive - I believe the tyres are unique to BMW and cannot be replaced with nonBMW-specific ones? Might be a consideration if you can get around the servicing by local mechanic issue.
> 
> I do know several happy Mazda 6 owners - nobody seems to have had any issues to speak of, although they are a run-of-the-mill car -  have you considered a Volvo XC60 or V50??



Thanks, DocK.   You're right about the Mazda.  They're popular and I've never heard any adverse comment about them, plus my own 20 year old 626 wouldn't have had more than $3000 in total spent on it in that time.

Volvo:  they've just never appealed to me.  Not sure why.




Kimberly said:


> Hi Julia,
> 
> Sorry to hijack the thread, but I've been wondering for the longest time, how your little puppy is doing?



Hi Kimberly,
Hmm, she is no little puppy now, almost a year old.  Despite the breeder assuring me that her parentage would ensure she would be placid and calm, she's the most excitable, boisterous Shepherd puppy I've ever had.
The puppyhood has been trying, to say the least!

She's gradually getting better, but is still hugely socially inclined and thinks she has to make instant friends with every dog she sees.

I've had to work hard with the training, constantly, and she will still at times appear to forget everything she has learned.

Hopefully the worst is over now.
Thanks for asking.


----------



## Boggo (28 September 2010)

Julia said:


> Volvo:  they've just never appealed to me.  Not sure why.




Volvo, built tough to protect Volvo drivers from Volvo drivers


----------



## roland (28 September 2010)

Does anyone have a Jeep Wrangler, or had one? I'm thinking of getting the 4 door version, but may wait for the 2011 model - looks like they have done a bit to spruce up the interior.

Found that on the net, people that have them, love them, people that don't have one hate them with a passion!

My RX7 is sitting gathering dust because I am scared of getting a scratch or stone chip. Looking for something solid that will do just about anything, and something to be able to knock around, chuck firewood in the back, toe a boat (if ever I could afford one), go camping etc.

Don't want a shopping center/pick up the kids from daycare SUV.


----------



## prawn_86 (28 September 2010)

roland said:


> able to knock around, chuck firewood in the back, toe a boat (if ever I could afford one), go camping etc.
> 
> Don't want a shopping center/pick up the kids from daycare SUV.




If this is what you are after then there is no point buying a new one. Get one that is about 5 yrs old and you will be able to do all the stuff you want to without worrying about it, while also saving yourself some cash (to buy that boat with  )


----------



## roland (28 September 2010)

prawn_86 said:


> If this is what you are after then there is no point buying a new one. Get one that is about 5 yrs old and you will be able to do all the stuff you want to without worrying about it, while also saving yourself some cash (to buy that boat with  )




Good advice, unfortunately the 4 door version has only been out for a year, and almost none with hard tops due to the hard top manufacturer going bust. They have a new hard top manufacturer now, but I may be waiting a few years to get a 2nd hand one.


----------



## JTLP (28 September 2010)

Julia I suspect with a German Shepherd you'll want something like a 4x4 as such.

I've only ever owned Honda's and have to say that they are extremely reliable. Only things I've had done with mine is just the usual servicing and replacement stuff.

Have you considered maybe a CR-V? They would seem to suit your mould and are relatively inexpensive to run.


----------



## nulla nulla (28 September 2010)

JTLP said:


> Julia I suspect with a German Shepherd you'll want something like a 4x4 as such.
> 
> I've only ever owned Honda's and have to say that they are extremely reliable. Only things I've had done with mine is just the usual servicing and replacement stuff.
> 
> Have you considered maybe a CR-V? They would seem to suit your mould and are relatively inexpensive to run.




Have you ever had any issues with the "D" (gearbox) indicator light flashing?


----------



## JTLP (28 September 2010)

nulla nulla said:


> Have you ever had any issues with the "D" (gearbox) indicator light flashing?




Hi Nulla,

Are you referring to the "D" in an Auto? I only drive manuals (plus I drive an Integra)

But back on topic - Julia i'm sure you can pick up one for a great deal...get the Sport Model and you will be happy.


----------



## Julia (28 September 2010)

JTLP said:


> Julia I suspect with a German Shepherd you'll want something like a 4x4 as such.
> 
> I've only ever owned Honda's and have to say that they are extremely reliable. Only things I've had done with mine is just the usual servicing and replacement stuff.
> 
> Have you considered maybe a CR-V? They would seem to suit your mould and are relatively inexpensive to run.



Thanks for the suggestion, JTLP, but I just don't like the 4x4 type vehicles.
And really not necessary for the dog.  Have successfully carried dogs in ordinary sedans (back seat covered appropriately) for many years, but with this boisterous young thing I do like the idea of confining her in the tailgate section of a wagon.  

Only disadvantage of this is that there's no window there so one of the dog's greatest joys of having its head out the window while driving is ruled out.

I have a friend who has a Honda and likes it a lot.  Somehow their current models just don't attract me.  I do appreciate that they are very reliable, however.


----------



## awg (29 September 2010)

Hi Julia,

           From a financial perspective there is no question retaining your older vehicle is a winner imo. 

Depreciation on a vehicle is unavoidable, at the rate of approx 15% pa, 
so do your sums.

Maintenance costs may also higher on a newer BMW.

Mazda 626 are very reliable, although you did not say how old your one is?

Most female drivers give up on the old girl too early, I find.

Wear items can be replaced provided that the vehicle is subject to a good maintenance schedule by the same mechanic

Perhaps you could grab an old 626 for "spares" and just stick it under a tarp in the yard:

ps I would avoid any less popular vehicles in regional areas, due to possible service support issues.


----------



## Julia (29 September 2010)

awg said:


> Hi Julia,
> 
> From a financial perspective there is no question retaining your older vehicle is a winner imo.



Yes, I know you're right about that, awg, and it's what I've been telling myself for the last couple of years.
But the money I'd outlay on a new car which would make me smile when I drive it represents just what it produces in income - around $2400 p.a.
which isn't much.



> Depreciation on a vehicle is unavoidable, at the rate of approx 15% pa,
> so do your sums.



Absolutely agree, but as above, this isn't much about money as a bit of long overdue self indulgence, for which I've already been castigated by Sdajii.



> Mazda 626 are very reliable, although you did not say how old your one is?



I think I did say:  it's 1990, so now twenty years old, still only done 78,000 and is in excellent condition.



> Wear items can be replaced provided that the vehicle is subject to a good maintenance schedule by the same mechanic



Yep, it gets regularly checked and has needed next to nothing spent on it.



> Perhaps you could grab an old 626 for "spares" and just stick it under a tarp in the yard:



Um, awg, not sure that this would enhance my landscaping too much.
Seems a fairly extreme measure to go to in order to hold on to a car that has already put in a lot of years.



> ps I would avoid any less popular vehicles in regional areas, due to possible service support issues.



Yes, I'm very conscious of this.  Though BMW Brisbane are prepared to drive up here, collect the vehicle if I buy from them, even a used car, service it and return at what they say is no additional cost.
Hard to believe I wouldn't be paying for it somehow, but they do really seem to be very service focused and say they have people who just do this as their entire job, i.e. driving round Qld collecting and delivering cars for service.


----------



## basilio (30 September 2010)

Congratulations on a very courageous decision to ask a largely male forum to advise you on buying a car. As you are no doubt aware we men know almost everything there is to know about cars and welcome every opportunity to spread our knowledge.....

On a serious point I would tread very carefully with BMW's. From everything I have heard ( basically from my mechanic for 30 years and some indirect experiences) BMW's are very expensive to service and even more expensive to repair when things go wrong. And they seem to go wrong a lot quicker than you might expect from a marque brand.. 

So what might befit your station Julia given you want to splash some cash and enjoy the rewards of your canny investing?

How about a superbly restored 1933 Phantom Rolls Royce ?  There is an excellent example in Melbourne . Check it out at car sales. (certainly worth a drool..)

Of course you wouldn't want to drive it yourself. Perhaps the right chauffeur could be approached. Some like Morgan Freeman perhaps ? 

Cheers and good luck.


*1933 ROLLS ROYCE PHANTOM II 107794
$139,777**


Vehicle	1933 ROLLS ROYCE PHANTOM II 107794
Price	$139,777*
Kilometres	63170
Colour	BLACK OVER BLUE
Transmission	4 speed Manual
Body	4 door 7 seat LIMOUSINE
Drive Type	Rear
Engine	6 cylinder Petrol Carburettor 7.7L (7668cc)
Reg Plate	TBA
VIN	TBA
Stock#	933
Comments	Roomy and comfortable Windovers coachwork. One owner for the last forty years and recently restored. This is the fastest and best driving Phantom II we have encountered for many years and will be great for long distance tours. Comes with logbook ownership history and workshop manual. Registrable on historic plates in most States without stamp duty.


http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars...247 1252 1282 4294959600 4294767989&silo=1011


----------



## jbocker (30 September 2010)

Hi Julia
Is NO car a possibility?
I only ask because I am seriously considering it myself, moving into the heart of the city in the new year hopefully, sell off the car, which is due for replacement anyway. Put the purchase amount of money and costs aside in an investment, and use that on a as needs basis to hire or taxi.
If I want to travel for the week/end away I hire the vehicle suited for the trip from whomever has the best deal.

No need to worry about rego, depreciation, servicing, cleaning and so on.

I have two car bays in the property and could lease them out... except I will have last two kids with us, and they have cars and work in town. So while they are with us their cars are available to us, BUT I am working on the theory that they dont stay... too long.
Interested to know anyone who has a No car existence, and how it works for them.

So Julia, just prompting your imagination on a 'what if I couldnt drive or dont own a car' see what solutions may arise for your transportation needs.

More back on topic my son bought an old BMW 2 door and had it trucked from east to west. I have driven it and am impressed, with its feel and functionality.


----------



## brianwh (30 September 2010)

Julia - can relate to what you are thinking as I am currentlly pondering a similar decision. I have a good Subaru Liberty but at my stage of life I am prepared to indulge myself by purchasing a prestige vehicle. In years past decisions like this would be made on a largely economic basis but this is something I want to do and probably will regret it if I don't. But I am not making this post to tell you what I am guessing you already know. I have found the Reviews in the Carsales.com and Drive.com websites very useful - in fact this one seems very relevant:

http://www.carsales.com.au/reviews/...bmw-320i-executive-v-mercedesbenz-c200k-11101

Another one that has attracted my attention recently is the VW Passat CC - also reviewed on these websites

Have come to the conclusion also that a near new or demo car is often better value than brand new.  

As regards servicing, these are fairly infrequent and perhaps driving to Brisbane in a luxury vehicle for a day a couple of time a year might add to the pleasure.


----------



## nunthewiser (30 September 2010)

Hi Julia,

I have come up with the perfect solution to your needs ..... Pup gets to feel the wind in its ears , You get to grin like a cheshire cat everytime you take it for a spin.
And best of all the less Klms you do the more it will worth in a few years time.

A win / win situation.


----------



## Logique (30 September 2010)

Capital suggestion Nun,
and certainly better than beastly beemers shocking poor innocent canines.

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/130296-bmws-war-on-dog-wee
*BMW's war on dog wee*
A dog may be man's best friend but a gleaming new car is often man's pride and joy – and never the twain should meet.

But careless canines now face a shock if they do their business over their owner's new Beamer.

Electric shock technology unveiled in the latest BMW should ensure no peeing poodle feels too ****-a-hoop after cocking a leg.

A pet who relieves itself over the new model's wheels will get quite a buzz out of it – as an unpleasant 200volts shoots through its body.

BMW described the invention as a shock to the system of any poor pets who may well be house-trained but not yet able to keep the driveway dry.......

_April Showers: Dogs have been warned_


----------



## Julia (30 September 2010)

basilio said:


> Congratulations on a very courageous decision to ask a largely male forum to advise you on buying a car. As you are no doubt aware we men know almost everything there is to know about cars and welcome every opportunity to spread our knowledge.....



Ah, but basilio, I had every faith in the non-sexist attitude of ASF members and the responses I've received have justified this absolutely.
(Just one person felt obliged to moralise about the evil of my actually spending some money when there are starving children in Africa et al.)

And on the sexist thing I've been pleasantly surprised by not encountering this at all in contact with the dealerships.  The Mazda manager said 70% of their customers are women which rather surprised me.  They have all been really courteous and helpful.



> On a serious point I would tread very carefully with BMW's. From everything I have heard ( basically from my mechanic for 30 years and some indirect experiences) BMW's are very expensive to service and even more expensive to repair when things go wrong. And they seem to go wrong a lot quicker than you might expect from a marque brand..



I haven't heard anything about things going wrong much with BMW, but understand that servicing and parts are undoubtedly more expensive than a vanilla vehicle.  
But, given my low kms, (1000 - 2000 p.a.) and the first service not being due until I've done 10,000 kms, I'm not going to let this be the decider.



> So what might befit your station Julia given you want to splash some cash and enjoy the rewards of your canny investing?
> 
> How about a superbly restored 1933 Phantom Rolls Royce ?  There is an excellent example in Melbourne . Check it out at car sales. (certainly worth a drool..)
> 
> Of course you wouldn't want to drive it yourself. Perhaps the right chauffeur could be approached. Some like Morgan Freeman perhaps ?



Well, now, if it came with Morgan Freeman thrown in, I could very much be tempted.



jbocker said:


> Hi Julia
> Is NO car a possibility?
> I only ask because I am seriously considering it myself, moving into the heart of the city in the new year hopefully, sell off the car, which is due for replacement anyway. Put the purchase amount of money and costs aside in an investment, and use that on a as needs basis to hire or taxi.
> If I want to travel for the week/end away I hire the vehicle suited for the trip from whomever has the best deal.
> ...



I know what you're saying, jb, and when I had a company car in NZ I hardly used it when I wasn't working.  Lived in inner city area, easy walking distance to everything.

Here, though, that's not the case and I do need a car.
Also, having spent years trying to save money in every aspect of life in the quest for financial security, those days are blessedly over, without being silly about it.
Also there's the dog factor, carting garden supplies etc.



brianwh said:


> Julia - can relate to what you are thinking as I am currentlly pondering a similar decision. I have a good Subaru Liberty but at my stage of life I am prepared to indulge myself by purchasing a prestige vehicle. In years past decisions like this would be made on a largely economic basis but this is something I want to do and probably will regret it if I don't.



Brian, that's it exactly.  



> But I am not making this post to tell you what I am guessing you already know. I have found the Reviews in the Carsales.com and Drive.com websites very useful - in fact this one seems very relevant:
> 
> http://www.carsales.com.au/reviews/...bmw-320i-executive-v-mercedesbenz-c200k-11101



Thanks, Brian.  The only part of their criticism of the BMW that rather bothers me is the suggestion that 'the power steering seemed to have gone awol, so heavy was the drive'.  This is the sort of thing I won't know until I drive one which I haven't yet.
Although Brisbane BMW assure me they're happy to drive the 300kms up here to show me car of my choice with no obligation, I'd feel pretty bad if I then rejected it.  
Being too sensitive here, perhaps?



> Have come to the conclusion also that a near new or demo car is often better value than brand new.



Definitely.  Am absolutely only considering used BMW.  The very reasonable prices for vehicles, say 2 years old and with around 25 - 30,000 kms, are testimony to the rapid depreciation.



> As regards servicing, these are fairly infrequent and perhaps driving to Brisbane in a luxury vehicle for a day a couple of time a year might add to the pleasure.



Yep, might indeed.  And as mentioned earlier, the first service is entirely complimentary, and they will come up here, collect the car, do the service, and return it to me.




nunthewiser said:


> Hi Julia,
> 
> I have come up with the perfect solution to your needs ..... Pup gets to feel the wind in its ears , You get to grin like a cheshire cat everytime you take it for a spin.
> And best of all the less Klms you do the more it will worth in a few years time.
> ...



Nun, you are probably too young to remember the Mercedes 350SL which in its day was a very stylish convertible.
The front two seats were large and comfortable, plenty of room, but in the back there was just the tiniest seat.  We used to pack two children in this little back seat, the German Shepherd between them!  Looked pretty funny, but we all enjoyed it on the rare days in Christchurch it was warm enough to have the top down.

I can see you have primarily the dog's interest at heart in this selection.




Logique said:


> Capital suggestion Nun,
> and certainly better than beastly beemers shocking poor innocent canines.



Goodness, that's a bit tough on the poor dog!
My girl doesn't of course pee against anything, but much worse imo is the drooling down the windows.


----------



## trainspotter (30 September 2010)

Be careful for what you wish for Julia ! I think you should get a 1971 XY Ford station wagon. This way the German Shepherd can share the driving responsibilities.


----------



## DocK (30 September 2010)

Julia said:


> But, given my low kms, (1000 - 2000 p.a.) and the first service not being due until I've done 10,000 kms, I'm not going to let this be the decider.




I also do reasonably few kms (approx 10,000 p.a.) but have always understood that servicing, particularly on a vehicle under warranty, should be carried out every 10,000 km or each 6 months - whichever was the _earlier_ - at least on a petrol fuelled car.  I think my diesel requires less frequent servicing - actually just checked and it is every 15000 km or yearly - perhaps another aspect to consider?


----------



## 1q2w3e4r (30 September 2010)

I won't buy another BMW, cards on the table I've had 3 late model BMWs (two ///M's and a 335) and AMG Merc's.  I've probably clocked around 200,000 km combined in them, perhaps a shade more.  

BMW gouge you horribly on servicing, which there isn't much of and the parts are frightfully expensive.  I never got the impression the build quality and reliability was there with the BMWs compared with Mercedes, I've no experience with Audi, but be prepared to reach into your pocket if you go with a propellor.  The running joke at dealerships is BMW= Bring Money With you.

Good luck any which way!  New car shopping is always fun.


----------



## Julia (30 September 2010)

DocK said:


> I also do reasonably few kms (approx 10,000 p.a.) but have always understood that servicing, particularly on a vehicle under warranty, should be carried out every 10,000 km or each 6 months - whichever was the _earlier_ - at least on a petrol fuelled car.  I think my diesel requires less frequent servicing - actually just checked and it is every 15000 km or yearly - perhaps another aspect to consider?



Thanks DocK.  Yes, you're right.  But the first full service on the BMW only occurs at 10,kms, with basic oil change at every six months.  The terms of their warranty don't require the six monthly oil change to be carried out by BMW, though of course the terms and conditions say the usual stuff about 'if non-BMW genuine parts are used and any problem occurs, the warranty may be void".

However, if I were to get a car which has used up its original warranty, this is I suppose less of a concern.



1q2w3e4r said:


> I won't buy another BMW, cards on the table I've had 3 late model BMWs (two ///M's and a 335) and AMG Merc's.  I've probably clocked around 200,000 km combined in them, perhaps a shade more.
> 
> BMW gouge you horribly on servicing, which there isn't much of and the parts are frightfully expensive.  I never got the impression the build quality and reliability was there with the BMWs compared with Mercedes, I've no experience with Audi, but be prepared to reach into your pocket if you go with a propellor.  The running joke at dealerships is BMW= Bring Money With you.
> 
> Good luck any which way!  New car shopping is always fun.



Thanks so much 1q2w3e4r.  You're the first person who has actually been able to offer first hand experience, and your comments are really helpful.

I've dismissed Peugeot and Audi for various reasons, most importantly no dealership nearby and no offer to organise a test drive from another centre as BMW have been so ready to do.

So I'm definitely down to new Mazda 6 Wagon, or used BMW,  with the black cloth interior in the Mazda changed to pale leather.  I'd prefer a used one, but that eliminates the leather option.  Talking to a woman today who has a 6 Wagon, she loves it except for the black interior which she dislikes, not least because it's hot in summer.
But this is around $3000 extra.

Spent about an hour at Mazda today, received great service, liked the car, but came away with no sense of excitement.  Do I want to spend nearly $40K and not feel really enthusiastic?

Almost felt relieved when I climbed back into the old 626, dog slobbered windows and all.   





trainspotter said:


> Be careful for what you wish for Julia ! I think you should get a 1971 XY Ford station wagon. This way the German Shepherd can share the driving responsibilities.




Too funny, TS.  And my current young dog has already attempted to take on the driving position.  I'd park to go into a shop, with her sitting in the back seat, and when I came out she'd be sitting pertly in the driver's seat.
Have since improvised a 'cargo barrier' tied behind the front seats as the only way to keep her in the back.

Perhaps I could offer the dog as a bonus on a trade-in with the 626!


----------



## Sir Osisofliver (5 October 2010)

Hi Julia, my very long two cents.

I drive what some would consider to be a bomb. It's a ford Festiva with over 200K on the clock. It used to be parked at train stations alot, and the station is near a school, so one door has a big bootprint in it and the bonnet has been keyed. I will drive this car till it's beyond hope of recovery, and then buy another small car that I will drive into its grave.  My choice is based on economics in this circumstance.

My wife drives a less than three year old Ford station wagon, which I purchased for her. I chose the car because of it's 5 star ANCAP rating because I wish to protect what is most precious to me in my life and they spend a bit of time in that vehicle. When I replace that vehicle I may purchase a 4x4...not because I like them, but because the physics behind an accident mean that the only way my precious darlings are protected in an accident with a 4x4 is if they are also in a 4x4. I HATE 4x4's in an urban environment. My choice is based on safety in this circumstance.

Negotiating with Salespeople Secrets. (The addendum to this is never sell to a salesperson)

Julia the way you process the world is revealed in your speech and body language. Revealing this information to a salesperson means that they are able to influence/manipulate you into making a decision. Successful salespeople learn to recognise the type of person you are and act accordingly, because we feel most comfortable with *people like me*. They will then use techniques to guide you to a decision during negotiation.

People who are visually orientated (40% of the population) will say things like "I can see that. I can picture that. I can see myself in that." Salespeople accordingly will use language to stimulate that portion of brain when dealing with you... "Picture yourself watching this T.V." by saying those simple words you've just imagined a big screen T.V sitting *in your house*, the salesperson already has the product through the front door in your brain...see what happened?  By relating to you in the language you prefer to use yourself the salesperson is very subtly making himself appear *more like you.*

People who are Kinesthetic (40% of us) (they like to do things) will say things like "What can I do with this, what connects to this T.V How does it interact with other things" the salesperson can identify this language and uses language in turn. "Think about using this T.V. Think about the functionality of the product, this t.v has better functionality".....get the picture?

Last is Aurally orientated (20%) we like to hear things, will say things like
 "I've heard such and such about this product.  The review I heard on this product, when I spoke to my friends about this product......" Once again the Salesperson knows how to influence you by using language that appeals to the way you take in information.

So if you *really* want a cheap product (be it a car, T.V. or whatever) you need to put the salesperson on the defensive, you need to guide them into doing what you want. In the above circumstances they are subtly in control, able to *guide *you. So turn it around on them and make them react to you. Start out Visual, and when they use visual language to you, switch to Kinesthetic or Aural language.  The salesperson will then think he's pegged you wrong and change tactics, and then you change again and again. They are generally so confused they don't know what to do. *Now* you can begin negotiations because they are following you.

Have fun

Sir O


----------



## tech/a (5 October 2010)

Julia.
Nothing wrong with some indulgence.
Buy whatever takes your fancy (and your dogs!)
and Enjoy it.

Its only money and life is but fleeting.


----------



## Julia (5 October 2010)

Sir Osisofliver said:


> Hi Julia, my very long two cents.
> 
> I drive what some would consider to be a bomb. It's a ford Festiva with over 200K on the clock. It used to be parked at train stations alot, and the station is near a school, so one door has a big bootprint in it and the bonnet has been keyed. I will drive this car till it's beyond hope of recovery, and then buy another small car that I will drive into its grave.  My choice is based on economics in this circumstance.
> 
> My wife drives a less than three year old Ford station wagon, which I purchased for her. I chose the car because of it's 5 star ANCAP rating because I wish to protect what is most precious to me in my life and they spend a bit of time in that vehicle. When I replace that vehicle I may purchase a 4x4...not because I like them, but because the physics behind an accident mean that the only way my precious darlings are protected in an accident with a 4x4 is if they are also in a 4x4. I HATE 4x4's in an urban environment. My choice is based on safety in this circumstance.



Hi, Sir O:  that's all fine, and I completely get what you're saying.
However, I'm not about any of that at this stage.  If I were I'd simply stick with the current old but very adequate Mazda 626.



> Negotiating with Salespeople Secrets. (The addendum to this is never sell to a salesperson)



Indeed.   I may not have mentioned that most of the latter part of my working career was as Sales Training Manager for a multinational pharmaceutical company.  I know how it all works.

The sentiments I've expressed on this thread are not necessarily mirrored in my approach to car sellers.



> Julia the way you process the world is revealed in your speech and body language.



Only if I'm not aware of this and fail to behave accordingly.



> Revealing this information to a salesperson means that they are able to influence/manipulate you into making a decision. Successful salespeople learn to recognise the type of person you are and act accordingly, because we feel most comfortable with *people like me*. They will then use techniques to guide you to a decision during negotiation.



I appreciate that this is the conventional thinking, but I'm not easily persuaded into anything I haven't already decided I want.
Rest assured that no salesperson is going to be talking me into something that doesn't fit my preconceived desire.




> People who are visually orientated (40% of the population) will say things like "I can see that. I can picture that. I can see myself in that." Salespeople accordingly will use language to stimulate that portion of brain when dealing with you... "Picture yourself watching this T.V." by saying those simple words you've just imagined a big screen T.V sitting *in your house*, the salesperson already has the product through the front door in your brain...see what happened?  By relating to you in the language you prefer to use yourself the salesperson is very subtly making himself appear *more like you.*



Actually, to be quite fair to both BMW and Mazda, they've recognised that I'm not especially, um, malleable, and have been very straightforward.
I've also made sure to talk about them, why they are in the job, what they like about it, what they dislike, i.e. regarding them in a personal sense rather than just as a salesperson.  This is simply a version of the age old theory of building a relationship by showing an interest in a person as an individual.
Works just as well from the buyer's point of view as the seller's imo.

What I am very happy to accept from them is genuine answer to my concerns, e.g. I do not want dog hair clinging to carpet in tailgate of wagon.
So the salesperson offers to throw in rubber floor mat fitted exactly which will solve this problem.  Good.  He has solved one of my concerns, so that's a genuine tick for making a sale.





> So if you *really* want a cheap product (be it a car, T.V. or whatever) you need to put the salesperson on the defensive, you need to guide them into doing what you want. In the above circumstances they are subtly in control, able to *guide *you. So turn it around on them and make them react to you. Start out Visual, and when they use visual language to you, switch to Kinesthetic or Aural language.  The salesperson will then think he's pegged you wrong and change tactics, and then you change again and again. They are generally so confused they don't know what to do. *Now* you can begin negotiations because they are following you.



Well put, Sir O.   Though I'm not about 'wanting a cheap product'.  This is simple self indulgence.

  At the same time, having experienced some of the vicissitudes of a sales career myself, I have considerable respect for a genuine salesperson, who actually does listen to a potential buyer's needs and attempts to offer a solution.
There's no way I will accept any suggestion that doesn't fit the criteria I have in mind.

I have no difficulty, though, in thanking someone who has genuinely tried to be helpful in the face of my pickiness, and who has refrained from insulting me with pressure tactics.


(A funny aside on just this:  I don't much like Fords, but idly walked through a Ford dealership a couple of weeks ago.  Young salesman came out, smiled patronisingly and made a pretence of listening to me.  Amongst what I said was that I just hate small cars.  Five minutes later he asked if I'd considered a Getz!!  If they're not the smallest car on the market, they'd be close to it.
No idea how people like this keep their jobs.




> Have fun
> 
> Sir O



Thanks, Sir O.  Your thoughts are much appreciated.




tech/a said:


> Julia.
> Nothing wrong with some indulgence.
> Buy whatever takes your fancy (and your dogs!)
> and Enjoy it.
> ...




Ah, you get it, doncha, Tech! 
Thanks.
J.


----------



## Muschu (6 October 2010)

Hi Julia

I bought a new car recently - Honda Accord Euro Luxury.  A wholesaler friend referred me to 3 specific dealers.  Mentioning his name lead to reasonable prices well below RRP.

At 11am on a Saturday, with yards closing at 1pm, I phoned all 3 [telling each I was phoning the other 2].  I stated that I would accept the best offer submitted that day - specifying all the features I wanted.

I'm not at home at the moment [travelling] but ended up with the vehicle many thousands under the RRP.  On that Saturday several more thousands came off the prices already given.

Only the third new car I've bought after 48 years of driving and the intention is to keep it for a long time as we do few miles unless pulling a caravan with our larger vehicle.

Best wishes

Rick


----------



## Sir Osisofliver (6 October 2010)

Julia said:


> Indeed.   I may not have mentioned that most of the latter part of my working career was as Sales Training Manager for a multinational pharmaceutical company.  I know how it all works.




Excellent - so I can go into advanced sales techniques  and hopefully won't be teaching your grandmother to suck eggs. 







> Actually, to be quite fair to both BMW and Mazda, they've recognised that I'm not especially, um, malleable, and have been very straightforward.
> I've also made sure to talk about them, why they are in the job, what they like about it, what they dislike, i.e. regarding them in a personal sense rather than just as a salesperson.  This is simply a version of the age old theory of building a relationship by showing an interest in a person as an individual.
> Works just as well from the buyer's point of view as the seller's imo.



 That *is* an excellent technique to use Julia but in terms of these negotiations, you are not attempting to establish a relationship for future interaction, (Unless you intend on buying a *lot* of BMW's  ). In this circumstance the salesperson and you are at polar opposites. The salesperson wants you to pay as high a price for the vehicle as possible because it directly influences his/her remuneration. You want to pay as little as possible because then you have that money to do other stuff. (unless you _really_ don't care about price and can't be stuffed negotiating on your indulgence). As such do you really give a damn what the salesperson thinks of you when you are unlikely to ever see them again? In this type of negotiation I normally take the nice-guy gloves off. As my wife said recently. "You are a bastard and I hate shopping with you. Thank-you for my new dishwasher."



> What I am very happy to accept from them is genuine answer to my concerns, e.g. I do not want dog hair clinging to carpet in tailgate of wagon.
> So the salesperson offers to throw in rubber floor mat fitted exactly which will solve this problem.  Good.  He has solved one of my concerns, so that's a genuine tick for making a sale.



 Agreed, but I would call this "service" rather than "sales". I want Service, I don't want sales.







> Well put, Sir O.   Though I'm not about 'wanting a cheap product'.  This is simple self indulgence.
> 
> At the same time, having experienced some of the vicissitudes of a sales career myself, I have considerable respect for a genuine salesperson, who actually does listen to a potential buyer's needs and attempts to offer a solution. There's no way I will accept any suggestion that doesn't fit the criteria I have in mind.
> 
> ...



 Yeah that is just slack 







> Thanks, Sir O.  Your thoughts are much appreciated.




No charge

Cheers

Sir O


----------



## tech/a (6 October 2010)

> Ah, you get it, doncha, Tech!
> Thanks.
> J.




Livin the dream--- J!


----------



## Twiddle (6 October 2010)

4 door Audi s3


----------



## Julia (6 October 2010)

Muschu said:


> Hi Julia
> 
> I bought a new car recently - Honda Accord Euro Luxury.  A wholesaler friend referred me to 3 specific dealers.  Mentioning his name lead to reasonable prices well below RRP.
> 
> ...



Hi Rick, good that you were able to do such a satisfying deal.
It's a bit more difficult when I'm in a smallish regional town with only one Mazda dealership and the nearest BMW dealer is Brisbane about 350kms away.
We haven't begun any negotiations yet, because I've yet to decide whether to go BMW or the Mazda 6 Wagon.  On the latter, they've already offered as their starting point around $3500 off RRP.   I've said I'll come back to them if I don't go ahead with BMW.

A friend has the same Honda you've acquired, and she's very pleased with it.
Happy travelling.



Sir Osisofliver said:


> Excellent - so I can go into advanced sales techniques  and hopefully won't be teaching your grandmother to suck eggs.  That *is* an excellent technique to use Julia but in terms of these negotiations, you are not attempting to establish a relationship for future interaction, (Unless you intend on buying a *lot* of BMW's  ). In this circumstance the salesperson and you are at polar opposites. The salesperson wants you to pay as high a price for the vehicle as possible because it directly influences his/her remuneration. You want to pay as little as possible because then you have that money to do other stuff. (unless you _really_ don't care about price and can't be stuffed negotiating on your indulgence). As such do you really give a damn what the salesperson thinks of you when you are unlikely to ever see them again?



Perhaps not, but I don't see a negotiation process (which we have yet to begin) as something which has to exclude pleasant human interaction, and of necessity needs to be aggressive.

There is, to use an old cliche, more than one way to skin a cat.
Different negotiating styles may equally achieve the desired end result.

And I am actually genuinely interested in why people do what they do and how they like/dislike their work.



> In this type of negotiation I normally take the nice-guy gloves off. As my wife said recently. "You are a bastard and I hate shopping with you. Thank-you for my new dishwasher."



And clearly you wear the label of being a bastard toward the salesperson with pride.  I usually find it's possible to get what I want without being oh so tough.

I do not *need* to buy a car.  Several posters on this thread clearly think I'm nuts to be considering it, given the low kms, carting around of dog etc.  And they're quite right.

The car salespeople are equally aware of this and I'm quite sure they realise unless I'm happy with what is ultimately offered I'll simply walk away.

I'm quite sure you don't mean to be either sexist or patronising, Sir O, something - incidentally - I've not experienced at all from either BMW or Mazda.

I'm having a bit of a smile at you, the caring financial planner/adviser, making clear the role sales technique plays in your own industry. 



> Agreed, but I would call this "service" rather than "sales". I want Service, I don't want sales.



My point was that a salesperson who has listened to my need and offered a solution has a tick in his favour.


----------



## treeman (6 October 2010)

Get one of those new hyundais that look like a bmw and change the badge or just get a honda legend if you can afford a brand new bmw best luxury value


----------



## Julia (6 October 2010)

Update for anyone who has been kind enough to offer input:
Spent some time with a 320i owner and her car today.
One of my difficulties was only having seen photos on the net, as BMW's are rarely seen here, unlike in a larger city.

I was, to be honest, quite underwhelmed in terms of size and interior space.
Back seats do not fold down and dog in back seat would be breathing down my neck, so small is the rear seat area, way smaller than I have at present in the old Mazda.
Boot is also extraordinarily shallow, precluding carrying higher items.  Owner says this is a real problem.

She has done 40,000 kms and needs to replace a tyre.  Cost over $500.

Her daughter is 5'10" and rarely drives the car because she simply hasn't enough room in driver's seat to be comfortable, even with seat as far back as possible.

So, some disadvantages I'd not anticipated.
Actually the spacious Mazda 6 Wagon looks a lot more appealing in comparison.  So surprising.

Thanks for earlier suggestions re Audi and Hyundai.  Have looked at a local Audi and it wasn't what I am looking for, though a lovely car.  Hyundai:  yes, I know they're much improved.  Just have zero appeal for me.


----------



## Ferret (7 October 2010)

Hi Julia,

Got myself a Mazda 6 wagon at the beginning of July.  Being driven by my wife, 19 yr old son and myself and, early days yet, but we are all very happy with it.

Love the huge cargo area.  Great to buy a BBQ or piece of furniture and cart it straight home yourself.


----------



## Logique (7 October 2010)

Thanks Julia,
nobody can accuse you of not doing the research. It's the old cliche 'repent at leisure' so take your time over it.


----------



## Sir Osisofliver (7 October 2010)

Julia said:


> Perhaps not, but I don't see a negotiation process (which we have yet to begin) as something which has to exclude pleasant human interaction, and of necessity needs to be aggressive.
> 
> There is, to use an old cliche, more than one way to skin a cat.
> Different negotiating styles may equally achieve the desired end result.
> ...




Oh I'm generally not el bastardo when I negotiate, when you get aggressive people tend to get defensive, it's a tactic but I'll only use it in very specific circumstances. I just said my wife *calls* me a bastard because she knows what I am doing when I use my Jedi mind tricks against the salespeople. 


> I do not *need* to buy a car.  Several posters on this thread clearly think I'm nuts to be considering it, given the low kms, carting around of dog etc.  And they're quite right.
> 
> The car salespeople are equally aware of this and I'm quite sure they realise unless I'm happy with what is ultimately offered I'll simply walk away.
> 
> I'm quite sure you don't mean to be either sexist or patronising, Sir O, something - incidentally - I've not experienced at all from either BMW or Mazda.



 Good Lord no, just trying to share some hopefully helpful hints - obviously your Grandmother knows how to suck eggs and I'll stop talking about it now. Sorry if I offended.







> I'm having a bit of a smile at you, the caring financial planner/adviser, making clear the role sales technique plays in your own industry.



 I've always said that sales plays a heavy role in the Financial Services Industry, but I only use my Jedi mind tricks for good (or to get my wife stuff she wants).

Cheers

Sir O


----------



## Julia (7 October 2010)

Ferret said:


> Hi Julia,
> 
> Got myself a Mazda 6 wagon at the beginning of July.  Being driven by my wife, 19 yr old son and myself and, early days yet, but we are all very happy with it.
> 
> Love the huge cargo area.  Great to buy a BBQ or piece of furniture and cart it straight home yourself.



Thanks, Ferret, good to hear.  Yes, when I compare the practical aspects of the 320i and the Mazda 6 wagon, especially the space and dog carrying area, the Mazda is much better.




Logique said:


> Thanks Julia,
> nobody can accuse you of not doing the research. It's the old cliche 'repent at leisure' so take your time over it.



You're all being very tolerant about how tedious I must be seeming in trying to get it right.  But if I'm spending up to $50K I want to be sure I don't in fact 'repent at leisure' as you suggest, Logique.




Sir Osisofliver said:


> Sorry if I offended.



Never, Sir O.  Appreciate, as always, your input.


----------



## roland (15 November 2010)

Checked out Holden's website today and noticed a special on the Barina - $14,990. Called HeartLand Holden in Parramatta and was quoted $19,500. I quizzed the effervescent salesman about the difference, whilst avoiding all his attempts to get my phone number, only to be told that he didn't know of any "deals"

Rang Holden head office and was told that the special had been around for a while and the dealers should all know about them.....

Called Suttons at Homebush and was quoted $14,500

One wonders how many people have been buying Barina's for $5,000 more than they could of?


----------



## Julia (15 November 2010)

Roland, it's yet another case of buyer beware.
Last year a friend of mine went to the local Toyota dealership and bought a new Toyota Yaris.  She didn't make any enquiries from any other dealerships.
She paid the price that was asked!!!
She was very taken aback to see a couple of weeks later in a national newspaper an advt for a price around $4000 less.  On a low value car like this, that's a significant price difference.

But whose fault was it?  The dealerships are businesses.  They won't go offering a deal if they don't have to.  Why should they?

Further to my earlier indecision about cars, I decided to look at maybe a used Mercedes Benz B Class.  Followed up a particular car on carsforsale.com.au (or whatever it's called) and the enquiry went through to MB on the Gold Coast.
Turned out that this vehicle is too small for what I want, and it was suggested I should consider C Class Estate.  Said no, that they were way more than I was prepared to pay, but the salesman said "you might be surprised" and put the brochure in the mail.

Long story short:  the C Class Estate Classic, RRP $67,000 they will sell for $55,000, including flying me down to see it.  It's fairly clear that this could be negotiated a bit further down, probably to $53,500.

So anyone who just pays what any dealer is asking is doing themselves in the eye.  There is a lot of competition between dealerships.  If you indicate to one that one of their competitors will sell at $X, they simply say, "tell me what I have to offer to beat that".


----------



## poverty (19 November 2010)

Julia said:


> Her daughter is 5'10" and rarely drives the car because she simply hasn't enough room in driver's seat to be comfortable, even with seat as far back as possible.




Pics of daughter?


----------



## inq (19 November 2010)

Have you considered the Subaru Impreza RS Hatch.

Sports model, very nice interior (hand stitched leather bucketish style seats, chrome trim), excellent performance and reliability. Depending on auto or manual, you could get one for low $30's.


----------



## nomore4s (19 November 2010)

Speaking of new cars.

We brought a new Impreza about 3 weeks ago, and yesterday in a massive thunder storm my other half was involved in a 4 car pile up

Luckily no one was hurt and our car had very minor damage as it was at the front of the queue. Looks like we will only have the replace the rear body kit bumber. The guy who caused the accident was in a Hilux 4WD with a bull-bar and didn't have a scratch on his car but the 2 other cars involved are pretty much write offs.


----------



## nomore4s (19 November 2010)

inq said:


> Have you considered the Subaru Impreza RS Hatch.
> 
> Sports model, very nice interior (hand stitched leather bucketish style seats, chrome trim), excellent performance and reliability. Depending on auto or manual, you could get one for low $30's.




We got the RS sedan, we paid just under $30k for it as it was a run out model of the showroom floor (new model out this month I think).


----------



## inq (19 November 2010)

They really are an excellent car. I would really like to buy one myself, but the investment monkey wont get off my back.


----------



## Julia (19 November 2010)

inq said:


> Have you considered the Subaru Impreza RS Hatch.
> 
> Sports model, very nice interior (hand stitched leather bucketish style seats, chrome trim), excellent performance and reliability. Depending on auto or manual, you could get one for low $30's.




Thanks for the suggestion.  I'm familiar with the car.
Definitely don't want hatch which doesn't have enough room in tail for dog.
The Mazda 6 Wagon is very roomy.  I know I should have decided what to do by now (!) but can't get excited about it.  I've been surprised that Mercedes Benz C Class classic estate can be had for $55,000.  RRP $67,500.
Trying to decide if (a) it's worth the extra over the Mazda, and (b) whether I can rationally justify spending that much on a car which does around 1200 kms p.a.
Meantime, dog continues to shake her hair all through the present old car, and drool down the windows, and I don't worry about it.


----------



## zzaaxxss3401 (19 November 2010)

nomore4s said:


> Looks like we will only have the replace the rear body kit bumper. The guy who caused the accident was in a Hilux 4WD with a bull-bar and didn't have a scratch on his car but the 2 other cars involved are pretty much write offs.




Don't be surprised if you get a quote for repair and it's 100's of $ more than you expect. Cars these days have plastic front and rear bumpers, but underneath is where the real structure of the car lies - the bumper may pop back out to it's normal position, but structural damage may have been sustained. Toe in / out can wear out tyres very quickly due to damage to the steering / suspension. Get your car checked out thoroughly after any accident.


----------



## inq (20 November 2010)

I'm not aware of any stock cars which use FRP bumpers as stock. Sure just about all aftermarkets are, but stocks....


----------



## nomore4s (20 November 2010)

zzaaxxss3401 said:


> Don't be surprised if you get a quote for repair and it's 100's of $ more than you expect. Cars these days have plastic front and rear bumpers, but underneath is where the real structure of the car lies - the bumper may pop back out to it's normal position, but structural damage may have been sustained. Toe in / out can wear out tyres very quickly due to damage to the steering / suspension. Get your car checked out thoroughly after any accident.




Not really concerned as to how much it is going to cost as the other guy's insurance is paying for it. I know the owner of the panel beaters we have to take it to for repair so I'm sure it will all be checked out thoroughly.


----------



## JTLP (22 November 2010)

Julia said:


> Thanks for the suggestion.  I'm familiar with the car.
> Definitely don't want hatch which doesn't have enough room in tail for dog.
> The Mazda 6 Wagon is very roomy.  I know I should have decided what to do by now (!) but can't get excited about it.  I've been surprised that Mercedes Benz C Class classic estate can be had for $55,000.  RRP $67,500.
> Trying to decide if (a) it's worth the extra over the Mazda, and (b) whether I can rationally justify spending that much on a car which does around 1200 kms p.a.
> Meantime, dog continues to shake her hair all through the present old car, and drool down the windows, and I don't worry about it.




On the plus side if you get the Mercedes it will retain value with such little driving. Plus servicing shouldn't be too costly for you as if it were averaged out over your kms then it would probably be the equivalent of regular highway driving of a standard car. (my english is terrible today...apologies!)

It also sounds like you're trying to talk yourself out (or in) to getting this car?
Just do it...you may as well be happy now then regretful later


----------



## tech/a (22 November 2010)

> Trying to decide if (a) it's worth the extra over the Mazda, and (b) whether I can rationally justify spending that much on a car which does around 1200 kms p.a




Julia.
If you buy one with really low Ks in 3 yrs time it will be about the same and probably worth around the same if the Merc.
The Mazda will have halved in price regardless!
Get the Merc you know you want it.
The only justification you need is you want it and your in the position to be delightfully selfish!

The German Shepherd in the Merc will look far more regal!
Besides Julia you've always struck me as more a Merc than a Mazda kinda girl!


----------



## nunthewiser (22 November 2010)

tech/a said:


> The German Shepherd in the Merc will look far more regal!
> Besides Julia you've always struck me as more a Merc than a Mazda kinda girl!




smooth as bro


----------



## Julia (22 November 2010)

Thanks so much for the encouragement, fellas.   I am just miserably bad at making this sort of decision, so it's much appreciated.

Your point about the depreciation is quite correct.  I started out looking at second hand MB Wagons and was blown away by how expensive they were, the "Elegance"  (the step up from the basic Classic C Class wagon) even at a couple of years old and with around 30,000 kms was way more than the Standard new Estate.

The other noticeable difference in the 'shopping around' exercise is the level of service and follow up offered by both BMW and MB which is simply a world away from the local Mazda etc dealerships.  Nothing is too much trouble, and they are far more ready to negotiate.

Sorry to say, however, that said German Shepherd is at least a year away from being, um, regal.  I can only hope that if I do get the MB, her behaviour will improve accordingly.


----------



## burglar (23 November 2010)

My first day here, ... totally enthralled by how much mileage  you've generated with this thread !

Now my 

No one has yet mentioned the big 100,000Km Service !
I would keep the auld girl till then.
That's not to say I would go without the Merc !!
Have the Merc and loyal Mazda, side by side in the garage.

Your biggest decision before breakfast: which car will I drive today?



I have no interest in securities in Mazda or Mercedes


----------



## Julia (23 November 2010)

LOL, burglar, I only have a single garage!   Welcome to ASF and thanks for your contribution.


----------



## burglar (29 November 2010)

Julia said:


> LOL, burglar, I only have a single garage!   Welcome to ASF and thanks for your contribution.




Picture yourself in this!


----------



## newbie trader (29 November 2010)

We lease one of our cars and get the newer model every few years which has worked out fine and is suitable for us. Probably not what you're looking for but is always an alternative option.


----------



## nunthewiser (29 November 2010)

burglar said:


> Picture yourself in this!




Now thats my kinda car


----------



## burglar (30 November 2010)

roland said:


> ?




Hi Roland, 
Is that a CIG_Caspian Oil & Gas pumping thingy in your avatar?


Who would steal burglar's car?
Now this is what I call Risk Management.


----------



## burglar (7 December 2010)

newbie trader said:


> We lease one of our cars ...




Ya don't even want to know what burglar did with a rental AWD Mitsubishi Outlander when he was on holiday in W.A..

My last bump before I go to bed!


----------



## Julia (7 December 2010)

burglar said:


> Ya don't even want to know what burglar did with a rental AWD Mitsubishi Outlander when he was on holiday in W.A..
> 
> My last bump before I go to bed!




That is probably the most sensible thing you have said.
You are correct.
Not for me to speak for anyone else, but I certainly do not want to know.
Could you give some consideration to not cluttering up valid threads with incessant nonsense?


----------



## fiftyeight (1 October 2018)

We have never been big spenders on cars, I drive a 2004 Corolla and the wife drives a 2010 Corolla (we blew our money on travel and partying).

As we no long require 2 cars, the Corollas are being sold and we will buy some kind of family mobile.

We cannot decide between something like a second hand Forester or a Prado (or similar 4WD).

I probably prefer something that is cheaper to buy, cheaper to run and easier to drive around the city like a Forester. 

But on the flip side our plan has always been to see WA once we had a family, so we plan on a lot more road trips and camping. The Forester is probably big enough for this but the extra size of a Prado would be good, and if we start hiring Caravans or Campers I think the Prado would be better. Plus we will be able to get to a few more "secret" spots with a Prado.

The added safety of a bigger higher car is also very appealing as everyone else seems to have big cars these days.

Decisions decisions..........


----------



## SirRumpole (1 October 2018)

You could look at "medium" AWD's , Toyota Fortuner, Mitsubishi Pajero Sport , Isuzu MU-X ...

They have reasonable towing ability without the heavy fuel consumption of the bigger 4WD's.


----------



## willy1111 (1 October 2018)

If you are looking at a Forester - be aware of the diesels - they are great on fuel consumption- but the thing to watch out for is the diesel particulate filter (DPF) can give way after 100K odd k's and that can be expensive to deal with - make sure you research around the DPF if going diesel.  I haven't heard any problems with the Prado's - a lot of country people, farmers and the like do a lot of travel with them so must be somewhat reliable although probably more expensive to purchase.


----------



## fiftyeight (1 October 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> You could look at "medium" AWD's , Toyota Fortuner, Mitsubishi Pajero Sport , Isuzu MU-X ...
> 
> They have reasonable towing ability without the heavy fuel consumption of the bigger 4WD's.




Hmm, something in the "medium" size may fit the bill


----------



## fiftyeight (1 October 2018)

willy1111 said:


> If you are looking at a Forester - be aware of the diesels - they are great on fuel consumption- but the thing to watch out for is the diesel particulate filter (DPF) can give way after 100K odd k's and that can be expensive to deal with - make sure you research around the DPF if going diesel.  I haven't heard any problems with the Prado's - a lot of country people, farmers and the like do a lot of travel with them so must be somewhat reliable although probably more expensive to purchase.




Cheers willy, I know nothing about cars so will definitely need to do a bit of research once we have settled on a car


----------



## SirRumpole (1 October 2018)

fiftyeight said:


> Hmm, something in the "medium" size may fit the bill




The Hyundai Santa fe is worth looking at for a larger SUV and the Tuscon for a smaller one. I've had a Hyundai ix35 for 6 years now (5 under warranty) and it's done very well so far.


----------



## sptrawler (1 October 2018)

fiftyeight said:


> We have never been big spenders on cars, I drive a 2004 Corolla and the wife drives a 2010 Corolla (we blew our money on travel and partying).
> 
> As we no long require 2 cars, the Corollas are being sold and we will buy some kind of family mobile.
> 
> We cannot decide between something like a second hand Forester or a Prado (or similar 4WD)..




I have had 4WD's for a long time, a lot boils down to what you are going to do with it and where you are going to go with it.
When you have answered that question, you can easily decide on which type of engine, diesel or petrol. Diesel isn't a good choice for mainly City/Town work, Petrol isn't a good choice for touring or towing work.
The Forester is a great little car, hold their price well also, but wouldn't be my choice for towing.
If budget is a big consideration, and you want to tow and be sure you can offroad and get back, I would pick a 3.2L diesel Pajero. Good simple motor, no known issues, great offroad and can tow a reasonable load. 
IMO it beats the Prado hands down value for money, towing ability etc, the Prado will be a nicer drive on the road but you will pay a huge premium, also the D4D has had fuel system issues.
If you are on a budget and want to tow a large van, the Jeep Grand Cherokee diesel is great value, people bag it but owners rave about them and usually buy another. 
Lancruisers are the top of the heap, but you pay serious dollars for them.
Anyway as  I say, if you write a list of what you require from the car, the list will be easier to shorten.
Have fun.


----------

