# 2014 Victorian Election



## Knobby22 (4 June 2014)

Well it looks like the maverick ex Liberal MP of Frankston is going to take down the Napthine Victorian Government.

It is very unfortunate as this Coalition government has been, in my view, the best Victorian State Government in living memory and that includes Kennett's. In the short time they have been in power they have achieved an amazing amount and the last thing we need is the Public Sector Union controlled State Labor Party back in power.

Normally their success would be rewarded however the Federal Coalition incompetency will probably mean they will get voted out. Really unfortunate timing for Victorians.


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## Junior (4 June 2014)

Knobby, what have their major achievements been, in your view?


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## Knobby22 (4 June 2014)

They have bargained hard with the Unions allowing them to build up a war chest and have announced major infrastructure works as a consequence including a railway to the airport and other major train infrastructure. Major roads that are desperately needed as Melbourne's population is growing so strongly are also being planned. Finally they are installing lots over underpasses/overpasses across railway crossings. Generally managed things well with a bit more honesty and transparency than Labor gave.


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## Tink (19 August 2014)

Yes, I am hoping the Napthine Government stay on too, Knobby.

MELBOURNE has been named the world’s most liveable city for the fourth year running, with a near-perfect score. 

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...st-liveable-city/story-e6frg6nf-1227029547719

Vic Votes - 29 November 2014

http://www.abc.net.au/news/vic-election-2014/


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## Tink (20 August 2014)

Good to hear...

_Offenders who commit a range of serious crimes will spend more time in jail under far-reaching baseline sentencing reforms passed by Parliament on 5th August. Those found guilty of murder, child sex offences, large-scale commercial drug trafficking and culpable driving causing death will all face big increases in sentences. The new law will require courts to set higher sentences not just for the most serious instances of those offences, but across the sentencing range.

This legislation is the first stage of the Napthine Coalition Government’s introduction of baseline sentences, under which the community through Parliament will be able to specify not just the maximum sentence that can apply for an offence, but the average, or median, sentence that Parliament requires the courts to apply. The new law will also require that courts must order offenders sentenced for baseline offences to spend no less than a specified minimum proportion of their sentence actually in jail before they can become eligible for parole.

These reforms add to the range of significant sentencing reforms already introduced by the Coalition Government to ensure stronger and more effective sentencing in Victoria. _

http://goo.gl/pqZXAT.


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## Tink (21 August 2014)

This isn't really election news, but Melbourne news, I am hoping this goes through.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...022071618?nk=43e715c8ec1b4c2800bb2e94a17033bb


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## Knobby22 (21 August 2014)

The soccer world woke up when Liverpool made stupendous amounts of money playing in Melbourne charging fans amounts they could only dream of at home.

With government subsidies also adding to the money being made, other European teams are seeing the opportunity to increase profits for their owners also. 

That said, it is money better spent than on the Australian Grand prix. 

In Australia we are used to paying over the odds (look how much the Rolling Stones are charging), so I predict we will see many more teams coming over next year also.


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## Tink (27 August 2014)

I always like reading Jeff Kennett's input.

*Voters’ duty is to keep Victoria strong in every way*

_AS you read this, there are only 93 days to the state election, but most Victorians have not yet exercised their minds as to how they will vote.

Of course, there will be the committed who will vote for their preferred party automatically. That might account for 80 per cent of all eligible voters, being 35 per cent for the Liberal and Labor parties, 5 per cent for the Nationals and 5 per cent for the Greens.

The other 20 per cent, in the main, are not committed and perhaps not interested in politics. Their vote may not be decided until they put pen to paper in the polling booth.

As we go into this election, Victorians have observed what has occurred in the federal Parliament in recent years and what instability a formally party-selected member can cause when he elects midterm to become an independent, as happened with Geoff Shaw.

So I’d urge all Victorians to think seriously about how they vote on November 29. It is simply not in our interests to elect a government that does not have a clear majority.

Without governments with clear mandates, the opportunity to put communities in the best position to meet challenges are much reduced.

So I want to highlight Victoria’s strengths and next week outline the issues that I believe we should consider when we vote, issues that if considered and addressed will allow Victoria to grow as a vibrant and exciting state.

I believe we have five key strengths that must be preserved.

A harmonious society: For generations Victorians have been a generous community of increasingly diverse backgrounds. In the main, our approach to multiculturalism has enjoyed bipartisan support and has been a great asset.

Yes, there has been the odd incident, but our cohesiveness has served us very well. We must continue to respect each other, support each other and to recognise our similarities and differences.

Our economy: Victoria has a diverse economy. Agriculture, manufacturing, education, medical sciences, retailing, service industries and so on.

With the exception of the gold rush period in the 1880s, that diversity has been our greatest strength, helping us to avoid the peaks and troughs that occur in states such as WA and Queensland.

While Victoria is experiencing some readjustment within its manufacturing sector, such readjustment is part of the history of any modern society and Victoria is well placed to produce and develop the next wave of activity.

Our finances: Victoria’s finances are in the healthiest of any Australian state or territory ”” even the federal Government. We are the only state or territory with a triple A stable credit rating.

That’s important because it means the state pays a lower interest rate on its borrowings than elsewhere.

That is why a balanced Budget or surplus Budget is important. It indicates a disciplined approach and it allows the government to invest in services for its community, maintenance of its assets infrastructure for its future.

Between now and November voters should consider the financial policies of the parties clinically and ask whether we can afford them.

Culture: We enjoy a great diversity in the cultural arts and in that I include not only music, dance, film, visual, architecture and so on, but also sport. Major events, whether arts or sport, have built our reputation in Australia and around the world.

Since Sir Redmond Barry in the 1880s committed Victoria to institutions such as our State Library, museum, Melbourne University and Melbourne Hospital ”” for populations much bigger than existed at the time ”” Victoria has kept ahead of the curve.

Our cultural heart remains one of our greatest assets and should never be taken for granted.

Essential services: While we often hear of a failure in essential services such as education, health, police, fire, ambulance, SES, paramedics and so on, little coverage is given to the tens of thousands of responses that have been efficient and on time.

Good management of our economy has allowed us to invest in a new children’s hospital and the new cancer hospital.

The same applies to the other services we receive in return for the taxes we pay.

So we go into the election in a privileged position. Victoria is certainly not broken but politicians must not go into this election promising not to do things. That’s putting short-term popularity before responsible government and diminishing the levers available to manage our affairs.

Lastly, I hope we Victorians recognise the responsibility we have to the state’s future and don’t waste votes on those who if elected will not be able to govern and might prevent the party with the most elected representatives governing effectively.

I believe the election will be more about the maturity of the electors than those we elect.

We need to vote in a government with a clear majority.

Next week I will outline how and upon what criteria I will judge the major parties.

Have a good day.

Jeff Kennett is a former premier of Victoria. _

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/op...ong-in-every-way/story-fni0ffsx-1227037874427


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## Tink (15 September 2014)

*Two councils use more than $100K of ratepayers’ cash to fund Link battle *

TWO militant councils have splurged more than $100,000 of ratepayers’ cash on a marketing campaign opposing the State Government’s East West Link. 

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi.../story-fni0fit3-1227058310579#social-comments

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/labor-and-the-leftist-loonies/story-fni0ffsx-1227058241010


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## Knobby22 (15 September 2014)

Yea, it's a joke Tink.
And the main reason that Labor they will break the contract is that they are worried about losing these seats to the Greens. Fuming.


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## Tink (16 September 2014)

Agree, Knobby.

He is too busy listening to the Greens.
They think tradesmen, with their equipment, go to work on a bike.
Shipping containers come in on a bike.
Unbelievable.

Leaving anything for Labor to do is costly.

Interesting information -

_Andrews could end up even losing his own seat if the backlash against his decision is big enough.
Given he represents Mulgrave - which has both Eastlink and the Monash running through it, you would have thought he would have consulted with the people that elect him before he took the position he has.
However, given that he only holds the seat by 2% after the re-division it would only take a small swing to unseat him._


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## Tink (18 September 2014)

Tink said:


> *Two councils use more than $100K of ratepayers’ cash to fund Link battle *
> 
> TWO militant councils have splurged more than $100,000 of ratepayers’ cash on a marketing campaign opposing the State Government’s East West Link.
> 
> ...




Good to see these Councils have top priority, after all the marching we saw down Sydney Rd.

No CCTV in Moreland Council 18 months after Coalition provided $250k 

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/op...angs-by-a-thread/story-fni0ffsx-1227061986281


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## Knobby22 (19 September 2014)

Moreland are the worst council in Victoria.
They have been sacked so many times yet the people seem to re-elect more hopeless cases.
They even have links to the mafia.

Their nickname is the People's Republic of Moreland. 774 ABC always call them that. 

Evan locals like Catherine Deveny call it the People's Republic of Moreland.

Some examples:


http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/08/20/1092972745888.html
http://catespeaks.wordpress.com/201...es-republic-of-moreland-election-shenanigans/

I feel sorry for anyone who lives in that area.


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## SirRumpole (20 September 2014)

Surrender to the gambling industry

This subject could go in several threads , or one of it's own, but I've put it here because of this:-



> The parliamentary debate was notable for the resort to weasel words, such as those from Labor frontbencher Senator Claire Moore that "we have decided, because of the sensitivities, the pain and the frustrations, not to continue with the measures that were in place and which had not received full commitment across all of the various interests in this area".
> 
> It would have been much simpler to say that the clubs had waged a highly misleading campaign that scared the hell out of Labor MPs in marginal seats. Greens Senator Richard Di Natale summed it up when he said that Labor's surrender "represents everything that is wrong with politics in Australia".
> 
> ...




Full story at
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-...-will-crumbles-under-the-pokies-power/5754720

What the hell is going on in this country when magnates like Packer can twist even more money out of the chronic gambler and then charge the rest of us for the damage he causes ?

Does anyone  have any doubts that we are a plutocracy  ?


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## Tink (22 September 2014)

Thanks, Knobby.

It is not my Council, but I think its pretty poor after all Victorians pretty much had their say.
Labor has always been pathetic with crime. 
The Coalition is making changes in deterring crime in Vic, and I am happy with the changes I am seeing.

I am right behind them making people accountable for their actions.

What annoys me with these protesters, Greens/ Labor, is how many are now travelling on CityLink after all they did last time? Chaining themselves to the equipment. 

Don't waste our money, we need both. 
Road and rail, which the government is intent on doing.

http://www.premier.vic.gov.au/media-centre/videos.html

Tradesmen can't go to work with all their equipment on trains, do these people live in the real world?
How does food get transported to shops, not by train. 

I hope people haven't forgotten the mess we had the last time they were in.


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## Tink (27 September 2014)

Interview with Denis Napthine on their ABC.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-26/premier-napthine-talks-to-730-victoria/5773154?section=vic


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## drsmith (27 September 2014)

Tink said:


> Interview with Denis Napthine on their ABC.
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-26/premier-napthine-talks-to-730-victoria/5773154?section=vic



One thing I'll say about him is he wasn't easily distracted from the script.


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## Tink (28 September 2014)

Thanks, drsmith.

I find it annoying that they don't let them answer questions, and cut them off.

I am hoping that the electorate aren't silly enough to let in a Labor/Greens/Union Government back in, after 11 years we had nothing.

The Liberals are not perfect, but are way better and getting on with the job, there is movement in Vic.The Labor Greens will make a bad situation worse every time.

I am going to bring up the Victorian Bushfires also, as I have never seen Council/Government move so fast, AFTER the event.

This was taken August 14-15, 2014

Who do you think would make the better Premier?

Denis Napthine ....... 41
Daniel Andrews ...... 33
Uncommitted .......... 26

Which leaders, Denis Napthine or Daniel Andrews would be the best choice for protecting Victorian jobs?

Denis Napthine...........39
Daniel Andrews...........38
Uncommitted................23

Which leaders, Denis Napthine or Daniel Andrews would be the best choice for keeping the CFMEU in check?

Denis Napthine...........47
Daniel Andrews...........23
Uncommitted...............30

Do you think that Victoria is heading in the right direction or the wrong direction?

Right direction .........51
Wrong direction .......37
Uncommitted ...........12

Which one of these projects do you think the state government should give the
highest priority?

Removing Victoria’s worst 50 level crossings ........ 62
Building the East West Link .................................. 28
Uncommitted ......................................................... 10

Does the performance of the Abbott government make you more or less likely to vote for
Denis Napthine in the forthcoming state election?

More likely to vote for Napthine ... 15
Less likely to vote for Napthine ... 33
Not influence vote ........................ 47
Uncommitted ................................ 5


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## drsmith (29 September 2014)

A win today for the Victorian government on the east-west link,



> The Victorian Government has signed contracts to build the first stage of the East West Link road project after a High Court ruling cleared the way.




http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-...green-light-by-high-court/5776826?section=vic


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## Tink (30 September 2014)

Thanks, drsmith.

The Greens wouldn't be too happy, but as I said, how many are now travelling on CityLink.
Good news for Melbourne, and Victoria.

Just regarding my last post, saying I had never seen the Councils move so fast, I just wanted to clarify, that the Council trucks were out and about, trimming and cutting trees, cleaning foliage, debris etc. I couldn't believe it.
I have mentioned before, that we didn't hear from the Greens for a while, they went quiet at that time.

Giving them any power is a tragedy to this State, you just have to look at Tasmania, and what they have done. 
These protesters are a problem wherever there is work to be done, especially when it concerns peoples safety e.g - adding an extra bridge so people can get out of an area if something were to happen etc.


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## Tink (30 September 2014)

Be interesting to see what Labor takes to the election now.


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## Tisme (30 September 2014)

Tink said:


> This was taken August 14-15, 2014
> 
> Who do you think would make the better Premier?
> 
> ...




I love those polls, they are so snakey and clever, they border on fallacious presupposition....are Australians programmed to behave like trained monkeys or what!


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## Tink (10 October 2014)

The Greens are now recruiting Bob Brown for a possum they need to save.

This Napthine Government has built more hospitals in the past 3 years than Labor did in over 11 years.  They've also invested more money in public transport and road development. 

A vote for Labor is a vote for the Greens. A vote for the Greens is a vote for Labor. 
Unless the Liberals get first votes, Labor will win with an obligation to the Greens.

God help Victoria


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## Tink (11 October 2014)

I should have probably added Bob Browns arrival for the election.

I hope they haven't forgotten 2009. Why is it that they only pick one place, where there is work to be done.

Don't get me wrong, I care for the animal too, and work is being done, the Greens just go too far.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...o-political-fray/story-fnocxssc-1227085648854

_Environment Minister Ryan Smith said: “The Victorian Coalition Government has taken more action to protect our state’s faunal emblem than Labor did in 11 years”.

“The Napthine Government is investing $11 million to implement all of the 13 recommendations made by the Leadbeater’s possum Advisory Group,” he said._


Cyclists to become pedallers of power at Victorian election
http://www.theguardian.com/australi...come-pedallers-of-power-at-victorian-election

Here we go,  these people are part of the Greens, not liking cars.

I am all for cycling, but the roads are to be shared, footpaths too.

No, to banning cars in Chapel St.

Cyclists want chunk of Chapel St to be a bike-only zone

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...-a-bikeonly-zone/story-fni0fit3-1227085623447


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## Tink (15 October 2014)

More information on the route and design of the East West Link project

[video=youtube_share;3QJuYdp9DEY]http://youtu.be/3QJuYdp9DEY [/video]



Vic's $1bn Cancer Centre

http://ow.ly/CCot8


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## Tisme (15 October 2014)

Tink said:


> The Greens are now recruiting Bob Brown for a possum they need to save.
> 
> This Napthine Government has built more hospitals in the past 3 years than Labor did in over 11 years.  They've also invested more money in public transport and road development.
> 
> ...




Not withstanding your pleas for God's help, being a borderline political atheist I often wonder at those galvanised to a political party being so passionate to implore the "Australians are not stupid" voters to do the right thing as if the things will be better or same.

The two years of LNP in Qld has seen the laws changed and manipulated to suppress freedoms, the one year of LNP in Canberra has seen similar loss of legislated freedoms, yet I had convinced myself the Labs had gone way too far with their desire to turn all of us into defacto public servants and pty companies into qangos. Licencing, fees and red tape has actually impacted harder on my business under the Libs than Labor, it's almost like someone swallowed the Paul Keating guide to bleeding people dry. 

Give me a govt that has an agenda to encourage national industry, state/national entrepreneurial spirit, without impoverishing the individuals to get there and I reckon we might be able to produce/profit our way into the successful country we think we are. Might be too long a bow for the kind of self aggrandised or knuckle headed political gene pool we get to choose from.


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## Knobby22 (15 October 2014)

Tisme

The Libs in Victoria are more moderate.


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## Tink (18 October 2014)

_NOTORIOUS dole-bludging protester Tony Murphy has cost the Victorian taxpayer $1.7 million in his failed court bids to stop the East West Link. _

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...094332282?sv=7a6da48006c6838098e30fe20a55e5ef

Unbelievable...


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## explod (19 October 2014)

The Victorian Government is currently run and controlled by the Real Estate Property Developers and to facilitate that expansion "the highway men ", like the makers of Peninsula Link recently and very light on traffic too.  No doubt East West Link will get heavy traffic, but like the rest of inner Melbourne it will be grid locked. A cheaper option would have been to connect the east link to the outer ring road and thereby clear all the through traffic and heavy vehicles away from inner Melbourne.



The waste of 9 plus billion on a road that will do little to fix the problems in victoria is an absolute disgrace.

This issue should have waited till the election and of Labor win there should be a royal commission into the Libs connections with these highway men.

"Dont' you worry about that " the money running the Guvmint is alive in Victoria.


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## Smurf1976 (19 October 2014)

Tisme said:


> The two years of LNP in Qld has seen the laws changed and manipulated to suppress freedoms, the one year of LNP in Canberra has seen similar loss of legislated freedoms




Half a year of Liberals in Tas and now going the same way. Then there's Abbott and co.

Seems to be a pattern there.


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## Tink (20 October 2014)

As I said at the start, don't waste our money, we need both, which the government is intent on doing, but of course the Labor/Greens, they splash the cash and complain that they can't get to jobs, regional areas etc, yet they are the ones stopping progress. 
You want something done, it's getting done. 

A plan for this state, road and rail, and everyone has been commenting on how much is being done at the stations.
As I have said, there has been movement, and all within budget, not like Labor and their union mates which they are still attached to.
How much did that desalination plant cost us? Myki?

Monash Hospital, Box Hill Hospital, Eye and Ear Hospital, have all been upgraded, no debts.

Labor will build this east west link, it has been signed, sealed, delivered and to this day, no one has ripped a contract. 
Daniel Andrews was FOR the east west link. 
The Greens are the only ones causing mayhem and its time those councils had a dose of reality how they spend their ratepayers money.

Freedoms? No wonder the left don't like work for the dole, when they spend their time becoming pests. Where is the cap? 
Julian Knight kills 25 people and is up to 4 million in court costs to the taxpayer, how long do we allow this to go on?

TisMe, I was always a swinging voter until the last few years. 
As I have said, the pendulum has swung too far to the left, and needs to come back in the middle.


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## Knobby22 (20 October 2014)

We know what will happen if Labor gets in within Victoria.

Huge pay rises for ambulance, teachers and nurses and any other public sector worker.
No money left to do anything.

They fixed a couple of crossings the whole time they were in last time. At least the Libs are knocking them off one by one. They did nothing at the Springvale crossing. The did nothing despite a number of deaths and some local demonstrations they at the St Albans crossing, because it is a safe Labor seat and there were no votes in it. It has taken the Libs to finally fix it. The death of a girl on a well known death trap crossing in rural Victoria due the Government putting off the crossing for another 5 years was, in my belief, the reason Bracks resigned soon after.
We know what we will get if Labor gets in. Nothing. They even ran down the train system and it was on this issue that they lost the State election last time. 

State Government is not like Federal Government. It is all about managing and spending wisely the cash received.

In Victoria, there has been no suppression of freedoms. We aren't a one paper owner town like Queensland and no government would ever get away with it. As I said, the Liberal government in Victoria is a much more centrist government. You know my feelings about Abbott.


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## Tink (24 October 2014)

Kindergarten teachers are on strike now for a pay rise, must be an election coming up 



*Billions in desalination costs for not a drop of water *

_THE consumer bill for the nation’s largest desalination plant is set to rise to more than $2 billion, as heavy rain and soaring dam levels make redundant tremendously expensive facilities across the eastern seaboard.

New figures obtained by The Weekend Australian show the Victorian desalination plant, southeast of Melbourne, will have cost water users $1.2bn by the November 29 state election, rising to $2bn by the end of the next financial year.

The cost has soared, despite no water having been drawn from the facility since its opening in 2012 and dams being more than 80 per cent full.

The full cost of building, running and maintaining the plant is forecast to climb markedly in the next three decades.

The Victorian experience has been replicated across Australia’s east and south. Plants in Victoria, NSW, Adelaide and on the Gold Coast cost more than $10bn to build but their operations have been effectively mothballed.

Serious questions are being asked about why state governments past and present have invested billions of dollars in desalination plants when high dam levels ”” such as 88 per cent in Sydney ”” make the infrastructure surplus to requirement.

The great drought ended in 2010, leaving Victoria with a desalination plant about 130km from Melbourne capable of producing 150 billion litres of water a year and a bill over 30 years of as much as $22.5bn, depending on whether, or how much, water is used.

Average yearly water-bill increases in Melbourne of about $200 have been recorded.

Assuming no water has been collected from the Victorian desalination plant by 2039-40, consumers will still have paid more than $18bn to keep the plant going when all costs are included, a prospect that is expected to dominate debate in the final stages of the state election campaign.

Victorian Water Minister Peter Walsh told The Weekend Australian yesterday that the plant was a “gigantic, permanent stain’’ on Labor and its leader, Daniel Andrews. “Every time a Melbourne household gets a water bill, it is a reminder that Labor can’t manage money, can’t manage major projects, and can’t tell the truth,’’ Mr Walsh said.

Data reveals that Melbourne water users will have paid almost $1.1bn by the end of August for the management and maintenance of the plant, with payments rising to more than $1.2bn by the end of the election campaign and $2bn by the end of the next financial year. The payments began in December 2012 but the breaking of the drought in 2010 means the government has opted against making a call on the desalination plant to produce water. The government has placed a zero water order for the supply period ending next June.

Under the deal struck by Labor, Melbourne households are still required to pay about $600m via an annual holding charge, regardless of whether water is taken.

Melbourne water consumers effectively fund the plant via their water bills, exposing Labor to a cost-of-living campaign in the final weeks of the election campaign.

AquaSure was contracted by Victoria to finance, design, build, operate and maintain the plant.

The Wonthaggi plant was embroiled in controversy amid claims it was being built on the back of union sweetheart deals and dramatically generous pay and conditions.

Mr Walsh said the fifth anniversary of the Victorian plant had been marked in June and that despite the cost of the water and the plant, it could only ever produce a third of Melbourne’s water needs. “If we are re-elected in November, the Coalition will continue to look at all means ofreducing Labor’s desal burden.”_


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## Calliope (4 November 2014)

Packer usually puts his foot in it.


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## banco (4 November 2014)

Packer must be tiring of the blowjobs he has being receiving from Mike Baird and needs fresh meat.


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## Calliope (4 November 2014)

banco said:


> Packer must be tiring of the blowjobs he has being receiving from Mike Baird and needs fresh meat.




Only a fool would make such a defamatory remark about a state premier without evidence. What form does your evidence take?


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## banco (4 November 2014)

Calliope said:


> Only a fool would make such a defamatory remark about a state premier without evidence. What form does your evidence take?




I'm referring to all the assistance the O'Farrell Government and now the Baird Government has given Packer with his new casino.


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## Tink (5 November 2014)

I like reading Jeff Kennett's input...my bolds

_APOLOGIES to the readers of my column who are not interested in politics, but the decisions of politicians affect all our lives.

For that reason alone we should all evaluate the policies of the two major parties. Hopefully either the Coalition or the Labor Party will gain sufficient support to govern in their own right. The last thing the State and its voters need is a minority government in which independents or small parties frustrate the will of the party with the majority of our support.

Three factors will contribute to how many of the state’s voters assess performances over the next four weeks. Personalities, policies and colour. Personality is in the main the assessment of how the two leaders Denis Napthine and Daniel Andrews, perform.

Policies, of course, are the offerings that entice us to support one party or the other. Colour, is those issues and moments that are often unexpected, can be embarrassing or uplifting but provide us with light relief from the toil of the campaign.

On Wednesday November 26, I will, on these pages, give you my honest assessment of the election campaign based on five criteria.

The party with the best vision for the state, the party with the best team to manage it, the party with the best commitment to promote a harmonious community, the party with the best commitment to maintaining our cultural heart and the party with the best policies for economic growth.

Labor was first out of the box with their campaign launch at Geelong. Daniel Andrews focused on education. Not a bad idea given that education affects us all. We are all interested and concerned by the quality of education for our young.

The Liberals will be launching their campaign this Sunday in Ballarat, so we can expect to get some idea of their major emphasis for the campaign then.

The only colour this week came from my friend Lloyd Williams, who last Monday at his horse stud at Mount Macedon, with his arm around the shoulders of Daniel Andrews declared “I am on the executive of the Packer estate and James is going to kick every goal he can for you”.

Were you surprised at that display of affection, that colour? I was. Because James Packer works with all elected governments.

He does not involve himself in supporting one side or the other, as he indicated through a statement on Tuesday.

So much of what the Williams and Packer families have built here in a Victoria happened under Conservative governments. Mine, in the main. It was built with Lloyd’s creativity and to date his and James’s money.

I had to wear a lot of political flack when the casino contract was independently awarded to Lloyd’s company Hudson Conway and have from some ever since. But that did not nor does disturb me as I believed in the project and what it would do for Victoria, in particular employment. I still do.

I stood by the concept and contracts, advocated the advantages of the Crown complex and backed the people behind the development. The Crown complex remains an ever-changing offering of immeasurable quality.

THAT belief has been well justified. And James Packer has spent another $1bn renovating what Lloyd built. They have delivered Victoria an asset of which we can all be proud.

But politics is more than just one building or complex. What surprised me most about Lloyd’s endorsement of Daniel Andrews, apart from the fact that he allowed any politician, let alone a team of media on to his territory, is I don’t believe he or his long-term friends Kerry and James Packer would ever endorse and support a politician who threatens to rip up legally binding contracts.

It is a recipe that would threaten any new investment in the state, destroy public confidence and destroy existing jobs while preventing new ones being created.

*Neither do I believe any of the above would support a politician who refuses to refute or distance themselves from the thuggery that is the Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy Union, CFMEU. Such refusal to put the public interest first can only suggest that Daniel Andrews if elected to govern the State will allow the CFMEU to unduly influence his actions. The result will again be union supremacy in Victoria and a further reduction in investment and confidence.*

I do not know of any senior businessman and woman who will be publicly be taking the line offered by Lloyd on Monday. They know the consequences of what the ripping up of contracts and an alliance with the CFMEU will mean to Victoria.

Packer is one of Australia’s most astute businessmen. He is an internationalist, with a knowledge of world affairs second to none.

Not to mention his network of contacts. He and the CEO of the ANZ bank, Mike Smith, have long been strong advocates of building Australia’s relationship with Asia, and China in particular.

Rupert Murdoch has created an international business, James is doing the same. Name any other Australian doing likewise. The ANZ and maybe the team at CSL, but few others.

James has said he does not intend to get involved in this or any election. I accept that. He has to be able to work with governments of all political persuasions.

Colour? Well, it’s been delivered in the first week of the campaign. But we must consider the things that matter in this campaign. Vision, teams, policies.

Have a good day and into week two.

JEFF KENNETT IS A FORMER PREMIER OF VICTORIA._

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/op...uch-colour-lloyd/story-fni0ffsx-1227112676502


----------



## Tink (5 November 2014)

*Herald Sun Election Matchmaker Quiz*

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...icially-launches/story-fnocxssc-1227111410147

My result was Liberal.

To think if Labor wins, we will be run by bikies..


----------



## drsmith (5 November 2014)

Tink said:


> To think if Labor wins, we will be run by bikies..




The brightest thing I can think of about that prospect is the potential for another Underbelly series.

There's an election quiz on the ABC as well.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/vic-election-2014/vote-compass/


----------



## Knobby22 (5 November 2014)

Both quizzes ask biased questions or miss important issues.


----------



## Tink (10 November 2014)

Desal plant deals: costly workers plugging drips at desal plant 

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...s-at-desal-plant/story-fni0fit3-1227117678883
_
A CFMEU shop steward on the plant was sentenced to 5 ½ years’ jail for the importation of three tonnes of cannabis resin, worth $147 million;

THE royal commission into trade unions has been asked to investigate a crane supervisor from the desal project with links to Mick Gatto; and

CLAIMS that three times the *number of cranes originally thought needed for the plant’s construction were present on the site, and that a number often appeared inactive._

A sad State if Victoria bring Labor back in........


----------



## noco (10 November 2014)

Tink said:


> Desal plant deals: costly workers plugging drips at desal plant
> 
> http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...s-at-desal-plant/story-fni0fit3-1227117678883
> _
> ...





I just cannot understand the thinking of Victorian people wanting to elect a Labor Government with so much criminality linked to trade Unions and the Labor Party leader.

Although I am from the Sunshine state, it does concern me that Victoria are heading for disaster......lets hope the polls are wrong. 


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...117569167?sv=24c7597b0863a7bdc957a96bb9f5ea1c


----------



## Tink (12 November 2014)

Agree, noco, I cannot understand it either.

The ABC are doing their best discrediting the Libs too.


----------



## Knobby22 (14 November 2014)

More bad results in the polls despite quite good performances by Denis Napthine.
I just think people can't stomach voting Liberal due the Federal effect.
So disappointing.


----------



## drsmith (14 November 2014)

Knobby22 said:


> More bad results in the polls despite quite good performances by Denis Napthine.
> I just think people can't stomach voting Liberal due the Federal effect.
> So disappointing.



There's more to it than that. 

Whether it's 56/44 or 53/47 in favour of Labor, the latest Essential poll for the federal scene is 52/48 in favour of Labor. while still not good for the federal Coalition, it's not as bad as Victoria.

I don't know what's in the coffee there but 16% are saying they'll vote Green.

The betting markets still have the next federal election in favour of the Coalition.

http://www.sportsbet.com.au/betting/politics/australian-federal-politics


----------



## Tink (17 November 2014)

Yes, it is disappointing, Knobby.

The unions have destroyed this state, and they have already said, they are going to rip up the construction code.


----------



## Knobby22 (17 November 2014)

My seat is in danger of going to the Greens.
I am thinking after voting for the Libs of voting Green in front of Labor.
Maybe that will make it harder for the unions to take control but I don't really think it will make much difference.

People know that Labor aren't much good but they don't want to vote Liberal.

For those out of Victoria, the television adds for Labor are quite effective. They merge Napthine's face with Tony Abbotts and say "Vote Liberal and you are on your own."


----------



## Smurf1976 (17 November 2014)

drsmith said:


> I don't know what's in the coffee there but 16% are saying they'll vote Green.




I'd expect it has quite a bit to do with lack of sensible alternatives rather than that level of actual support for the Greens.

Labor aren't much good it seems and, at the national level at least and in some states (not sure about Vic) the Liberals aren't doing too much good either. That leaves Greens, PUP and independents with the Greens clearly the most established and with the most predictable policies


----------



## overhang (17 November 2014)

I've been pretty happy with the job the Libs have done over this term, for a politician I find Napthine quite genuine.  We haven't had the mess like the desal plant and Myki, you do get a little bit of this with the Libs though 







> Victorian government gives $5.4 million to Scotch College for land previously valued at $1 million



 but overall the waste is less than with Labor.  I really can't figure out how Daniel Andrews has any voter appeal (but then again I said the same thing about Abbott and was wrong), he seems so artificial and a step down from Brumby. So I have no idea how Labor are in front on the polls, surely it can't be a result of the political distrust in the federal government.


----------



## sptrawler (17 November 2014)

Knobby22 said:


> My seat is in danger of going to the Greens.
> I am thinking after voting for the Libs of voting Green in front of Labor.
> Maybe that will make it harder for the unions to take control but I don't really think it will make much difference.
> 
> ...




Knobby, I think that is a great call. 

The sooner we get to the bottom, the sooner we start the climb back.

I'd recommend handing out how to vote Green flyers, and recommending them to all your friends.

There should be a massive push Australia wide, to get the Greens in power. 
Then when everyone is out of a job, looking at each other, they can say,"what the FFF happened". lol


----------



## Tink (18 November 2014)

Agree, Knobby, regarding the ads.

I am in a safe Liberal seat.

Libs are preferencing Labor over the Greens.


----------



## Tink (19 November 2014)

Greens and Labor candidates are travelling and campaigning in tandem on the same buses throughout the state. 

*Greens a threat to our stability *

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/op...to-our-stability/story-fni0ffsx-1227127476497

and a piece from Jeff Kennett 

_There is still no vision for where the competing parties want to take the state by 2050.
For me it has been another non-event week.
I have no doubt both major parties and their politicians and staffers are working tirelessly, but neither side has created any energy within the electorate. Neither has sparked any enthusiasm for or against anything. No love, no hate. No passion.

Both sides throwing offerings of billions of dollars’ worth of new promises I can no longer get my head around.
I would love this paper to do a double-page spread listing all the promises and the cost of the promises of both parties.
Where is the money coming from?
The Coalition has said it will come from the current and future budget surpluses it has already generated. As it is the only Government in Australia running a surplus Budget, and state debt is projected to reduce as a percentage of State Gross Product, there might be some merit in their argument.

The ALP has to date refused to indicate where it will generate the wealth to pay for its promises, so until it does we have great cause to be concerned.
Partly as a result of this election campaign failing to stir our juices, the final decision of the thinking public might come down to the question: Who do you trust most to manage your money?
After all, it is our money these politicians are committing to spend, not theirs.

We more experienced members of the community become more cautious as we live our lives. We want security, to live our lives with dignity.
Our young want fun. But fun can only be had if we work hard, and have jobs that allow us to have fun. With no jobs, and no income, it is hard to have the fun and build the future you envisage.
So to all voters, regardless of age I say who do you best trust to manage your money for the next four years? It is your money, your life, your vote. You decide.

Finally, the Greens have done a preference deal with Clive Palmer’s PUPs. Well bugger me, I thought the Greens stood for integrity for the environment? They have shown they stand for nothing of value at all. Political prostitutes. The Greens and PUP deserve each other. Neither give a hoot about Victoria, it is all about self and disruption._


----------



## Tink (22 November 2014)

With a week to go, we need a miracle, 52-48 in the polls.

Tasmania is a state with negative population, no jobs and not much on the horizon other than tourism. All that happened because of the Greens. The Tasmanians gave them a nice big boot out of their homeland, along with Labor at the last election. now they are in Victoria travelling with Labor trying to do the same thing.

Andrews, the former Labor Gaming and Health Minister who destroyed both his portfolios, who is protecting his criminal mates at the CMFEU, who back flipped on the East West Link for the Greens.
What is Victoria doing.

As I have mentioned - 

_the short-term political gain he’s made from opposing East West will translate into longer-term economic pain. Assuming Labor wins power without requiring the Greens’ support, early next year our new premier will announce the road tunnel *must proceed*_

*Wake up Victoria.*

https://vic.liberal.org.au/#Election2014

Also, when you see all these minor parties, we may end up with a hotch potch of all sorts, paralysing Victoria.


----------



## drsmith (22 November 2014)

Tink said:


> With a week to go, we need a miracle, 52-48 in the polls.



While obviously still behind, isn't that a significant improvement ?


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (22 November 2014)

I lived in Victoria, briefly, many years ago.

When they elected John Cain, I saw the havoc he was going to cause, so returned quickly to Queensland. 

They are not all that bright in Victoria. They vote often with a misplaced soft left conscience rather than their wallets.

I will never understand them. 

gg


----------



## explod (22 November 2014)

The cost of the east west link,  8 billion,  and on past projects probably blow to 12 bil/pluss,  spent on public transport and alternative outer ring connections would make an enourmouse impact on road traffic congestion here in Melbourne. 

Only a billion or 2 would take a raik link to the airport from the line near Essondon to Tullamarine. 

Eastlink connected tothe outer western ring road prob 4 billion would takehuge through traffic away from the inner area.   The City Link Tunnells only after a few years after completion to become a bottleneck.  Eastwest link would very soon be the same,  particularly where it meets the tulla and Racecourse Road. 

Another costly nightmare is parking,  city,  tullamarine and now our hospitals.   And on these ten dollars an hour plus,  and think tulla is much more. 

The current short sighted approach by the libs here is one of the reasons why they will be booted at this election. 

And polls,  different pollingcompanies seem to vary by up to 4%, so I'd guess a mean of around 54 to 46.

W'ell soon know.


----------



## Smurf1976 (22 November 2014)

Tink said:


> Tasmania is a state with negative population, no jobs and not much on the horizon other than tourism. All that happened because of the Greens.




It was pretty well known back in the days of big protests about various things that the strongest support base was in Sydney and Melbourne and that's where many of the protestors originated from. Not all of course, but rather a lot.

There's been a significant "green" movement and thinking in Victoria since at least the 1970's although it has often focused on things outside the state. In contrast, in Tas the green movement has always tended to be very local in focus and pretty much ignores what happens elsewhere.


----------



## drsmith (22 November 2014)

explod said:


> The cost of the east west link,  8 billion,  and on past projects probably blow to 12 bil/pluss,  spent on public transport and alternative outer ring connections would make an enourmouse impact on road traffic congestion here in Melbourne.



The trend at the moment is actually the other way.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/trus...enders-at-half-the-price-20141015-1169pk.html


----------



## explod (22 November 2014)

drsmith said:


> The trend at the moment is actually the other way.
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/business/trus...enders-at-half-the-price-20141015-1169pk.html





So we can have more of the alternatives suggeted for much less. 

Maybe we can even ponder the full development of the excellent deep sea port of Portland.  Promised and commenced by the Libs in the late 50's.  

Some decentralisation is happenning via retirees to Ballarat and Bendigo but things could reallybe boosted across the south west of the state.   Throw in an AFL club and a casino and Warrnambool to Portland could be the new paradise.  Throw in the outer ring road i suggest and transort could cross the state east to west in five hours.


----------



## Tink (22 November 2014)

Yes, it seems to have tightened, drsmith, going by the few different polls I have seen.
Here is hoping.
I will stay optimistic until the day.

I am all for the East West Link, explod, I have said that before.

No contract has ever been ripped up, and Andrews did have a private meeting with the builders, I am sure they were concerned after his back flip.
Yes, yes, one minute, no, the next.

If Labor does anything, it's always double the time and pay, for their union mates.
No money left for anything else.
I don't agree with that.

Andrews was Health Minister last time, was it any better.
Yes, we will know next week.


----------



## Tink (23 November 2014)

Crime is another area I feel is important with the Libs, and people taking responsibility.

The soft approach that Labor takes is just not on.

I agree with what they have done at all the stations.

These drug problems need to be tackled.

https://vic.liberal.org.au/#Election2014


----------



## drsmith (23 November 2014)

Tink said:


> Yes, it seems to have tightened, drsmith, going by the few different polls I have seen.
> Here is hoping.
> I will stay optimistic until the day.



At 52/48 I was thinking the difference was at least a little less than miracle level but the Sportsbet odds are still in miracle territory.


----------



## Tink (24 November 2014)

Oh the pain, the pain, drsmith (LOL, I used to love that show).

How could Victorians even think of voting in a Labor/Green Government.

A disaster for our state.


----------



## Tink (25 November 2014)

Dan Andrews shows Labor hasn’t learned

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...column_dan_andrews_shows_labor_hasnt_learned/

Well the ALP confirms Unions will control the agenda through sacking the Board of Ambulance Victoria. 

Wait till the CFMEU makes its demands.

Vic ALP wants to declare day before Grand Final a public holiday. Great news for growing youth unemployment. No work no hope the new ALP way

Re-introducing mixed martial arts? Violence in a cage. Surely we do not need to conduct or promote such sport


----------



## Knobby22 (25 November 2014)

The CFMEU already have made their demands.
The Minister for building and infrastructure is going to be a CFMEU member according to the Age today.
Also Andrews met with Mick Gatto last week! Are we dumb or what.


----------



## noco (26 November 2014)

How stupid is this Vic.Labor leader Andrews.

If Victorians vote for a Labor Government you will see a repeat of what the Beattie/Bligh Labor did to Queensland.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...134941790?sv=f1facfc365732b183054123400fe761a

*TONY Abbott has killed off any chance of Victoria receiving the $3 billion in federal funding committed to the nation’s biggest urban road and tunnel project if Labor is elected to power at the weekend.

The Prime Minister has warned Labor in writing that if it dumps the project it will miss out on the funds, opening the way for other states and territories to share in a multi-billion-dollar windfall.

Labor leader Daniel Andrews has campaigned on opposing the $7bn first stage of the East West Link road and tunnel project, claiming he can convince Mr Abbott to allocate the funds elsewhere.

But in an election-eve open letter obtained by The Australian, Mr Abbott has warned political leaders in Victoria that the $3bn will only be delivered if the road goes ahead.

This means that if Labor is elected it will have to return $1.5bn already advanced and it will have to extract $1.5bn from the budget forward estimates,’’ Mr Abbott writes.*


----------



## orr (26 November 2014)

noco said:


> $3 billion in federal funding committed to the nation’s biggest urban road and tunnel project
> 
> 
> [/B]




Building bigger roads to solve traffic congestion problem is the same as buying bigger pants to solve your obesity problem.


----------



## Tink (26 November 2014)

Agree, noco and Knobby.

The disaster that Andrews created on his own watch as a Gaming and Health Minister should have been enough, and now he is protecting his criminal mates also.

With everything that has happened in Victoria regarding the unions and corruption, they would be rubbing their hands with glee.

We have a few more days...


----------



## Tisme (26 November 2014)

Tink said:


> Dan Andrews shows Labor hasn’t learned
> 
> 
> Vic ALP wants to declare day before Grand Final a public holiday. Great news for growing youth unemployment. No work no hope the new ALP way




Well considering the Grand Final is probably Victoria's holiest day behind Easter Friday, it might not be a bad idea.


----------



## Tink (26 November 2014)

As much as we love the Grand Final, Tisme, I don't think we need a public holiday for the day before.
The whole week is full of events and celebrations.


----------



## noco (26 November 2014)

orr said:


> Building bigger roads to solve traffic congestion problem is the same as buying bigger pants to solve your obesity problem.




What a stupid comparison.....you really are desperate.


----------



## SirRumpole (26 November 2014)

I'm not a Victorian but I hope Labor win.

We need some opposition to a Federal Liberal government that has lost its way (if it ever had one).


----------



## explod (26 November 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> I'm not a Victorian but I hope Labor win.
> 
> We need some opposition to a Federal Liberal government that has lost its way (if it ever had one).




Interestingly the pattern overall in Australia has been,  lib canberra,  states go to labour and vice versa. 

So perhaps this recognises that people like the diversity.  And like a holiday now and again,  we do.


----------



## Tink (26 November 2014)

Vic Labor fire policy a disaster: CFA 

http://www.vfbv.com.au/index.php/component/k2/item/305-open-letter-to-the-people-of-victoria

http://www.news.com.au/national/bre...y-a-disaster-cfa/story-e6frfku9-1227135497621


----------



## Calliope (26 November 2014)

Knobby22 said:


> The CFMEU already have made their demands.
> The Minister for building and infrastructure is going to be a CFMEU member according to the Age today.
> Also Andrews met with Mick Gatto last week! Are we dumb or what.




If Victorians want their state to be run by the CFMEU and the likes of Mick Gatto the blinkered electors will get what they deserve.  It will probably start a stampede of persecuted refugees to the political sanity of Mike Baird's NSW.


----------



## noco (26 November 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> I'm not a Victorian but I hope Labor win.
> 
> We need some opposition to a Federal Liberal government that has lost its way (if it ever had one).




Of course you would like a Labor win in Victoria (AFTER ALL THEY ARE YOUR FABIAN COMRADES) and if they do the Victorians will be dealing with the CMFEU and not the Labor Party......the CFMEU will dictate the terms and the voters will be sorry they made the wrong choice......they will find out the hard way.


----------



## Tink (27 November 2014)

As I have said before, all our fires have been under Labor watch -

2003, 2006, 2009


----------



## Tisme (28 November 2014)

The unions don't mind showing their preferences do they

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=872793516152606&fref=nf


----------



## Tink (29 November 2014)

Well the voting has closed, now let's see the outcome.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-29/live-blog-victoria-votes-2014/5928222

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...14-live-coverage/story-fnqggr3j-1227138237845


----------



## SirRumpole (29 November 2014)

Anthony Green has called it for Labor.

Maybe the start of the Coalition decline.


----------



## overhang (29 November 2014)

Well it looks like it will be a Labor victory.  Can't help but think the federal governments poor performance has played a large part in the Liberals being booted out as they did a pretty good job in Victoria imo.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (29 November 2014)

Agree it looks like an ALP victory.

Lib/Nats did not exactly inspire.

Greens may be a problem for ALP in Government.

gg


----------



## So_Cynical (29 November 2014)

The red necks are quiet tonight.  big win too..congrats to the true believers.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (29 November 2014)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Agree it looks like an ALP victory.
> 
> Lib/Nats did not exactly inspire.
> 
> ...






So_Cynical said:


> The red necks are quiet tonight.  big win too..congrats to the true believers.




I am so pleased you do not consider me in your vulgar epithet against the bush "rednecks" as I posted one hour before your celebratory emission.

Be humble in Victory and gracious in defeat.

It's called Democracy.

gg


----------



## explod (29 November 2014)

Labor have bolted in with a majority of 7seats.

Not the full answer but will at least ease the traffic gridlock with the focus on public transport. 

For the first time the Greens have picked upa seat in the lower house and too close to call either way at the moment for a second.  Nothing to b too excited about,  but the support base is building around Australia for sensible approaches to the reality of climate change.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (29 November 2014)

explod said:


> Labor have bolted in with a majority of 7seats.
> 
> Not the full answer but will at least ease the traffic gridlock with the focus on public transport.
> 
> For the first time the Greens have picked upa seat in the lower house and too close to call either way at the moment for a second.  Nothing to b too excited about,  but the support base is building around Australia for sensible approaches to the reality of climate change.




Plod, I will bet London to a brick that an ALP Government in Victoria will guarantee an LNP victory federally in 2016

gg


----------



## banco (29 November 2014)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Plod, I will bet London to a brick that an ALP Government in Victoria will guarantee an LNP victory federally in 2016
> 
> gg




Not with Tony Abbott at the helm. He's poison in Victoria.


----------



## explod (29 November 2014)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Plod, I will bet London to a brick that an ALP Government in Victoria will guarantee an LNP victory federally in 2016
> 
> gg




Well I did indicate that dynamic of history in an earlier post today.   Dont' get me wrong,  I do not prescibe to Labor with its branch stacking and centralist control over rank and file members.   Very much different to the "mandella style"  of inclusion as practiced within the Greens. 

And the slangers of this world are ignorance to be passed by.


----------



## Tink (30 November 2014)

I am astounded that Victorians have such short memories, they don't seem to care where this money is coming from.

Do they even think/care about Australia's future, or is it all about themselves?


----------



## SirRumpole (30 November 2014)

Tink said:


> I am astounded that Victorians have such short memories, they don't seem to care where this money is coming from.
> 
> Do they even think/care about Australia's future, or is it all about themselves?




A one term Coalition government. Probably hasn't happened before.

 A dire warning for the Federal Libs unless they get their act together.


----------



## orr (30 November 2014)

A big two fingers from Victorian's/Melbournites to Abbott $3Billion pork barrel WestConex. It's no easy job leading our leaders away from their grovelling to vested interests. But here's a decent start. We'll see how long the Federal government can hold back funding for your public transport infrastructure, Lead up to the next Federal election if it even takes that long, My guess.


----------



## noco (30 November 2014)

IMHO, I believe the Labor Party in Victoria have an enormous challenge ahead of them and time will tell as to whether they have the expertise to carry out what they say.....If they do not perform in the first two years then they will hand an easy victory to the Liberal Party come the next Federal election.


----------



## drsmith (30 November 2014)

orr said:


> A big two fingers from Victorian's/Melbournites to Abbott $3Billion pork barrel WestConex. It's no easy job leading our leaders away from their grovelling to vested interests. But here's a decent start. We'll see how long the Federal government can hold back funding for your public transport infrastructure, Lead up to the next Federal election if it even takes that long, My guess.



What confidence do you have in the following ?



> Victorian Labor will remove 50 of the most dangerous and congested level crossings on the metropolitan rail network.
> 
> Estimated cost: $5-6 billion




http://www.danielandrews.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Victorian-Labors-Project-10000.pdf


----------



## Knobby22 (30 November 2014)

The new east west link was wanted by over 60% of Victorians, it wasn't that decision that lost it, though it probably didn't help.

There was a change of leader mid government which always doesn't help either however the main cause in my view was that it was a way to get back at Tony who has damaged the Liberal brand and is perceived to be incompetent,unfair and dishonest. Tony is toxic down here. If he is still leader at the next election, I can promise he won't have many Victorian seats. They used his face on a lot of the advertising.

A real shame, Napthine deserved to win. I worry for Victoria. We all know there will  be no money for anything once the new Premier has rewarded all the public sector unions with big pay rises.


----------



## orr (30 November 2014)

drsmith said:


> What confidence do you have in the following ?
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.danielandrews.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Victorian-Labors-Project-10000.pdf




at an average of $100+ million a pop I'd say someones being conned. Build a lot of bike paths and avoid a lot diabetes for a lot less than $$$ix billion, kinda sorta thing that sort of pays for itself. 

On another note CNG (compressed Natural Gas) is now retailed in Aspendale, bayside Melbourne, Servicing Eastmoor Taxi's . At last a bit value adding to our natural gas is available to the masses. Toyota hybrid Camry's using CNG reportedly returning 250km for $10..... I'll hazzard a guess that a  bit of industry support in this area just might be looked kindly upon by the voters, just a pity that cloth ears abound in cabinet......


----------



## FxTrader (30 November 2014)

Knobby22 said:


> The new east west link was wanted by over 60% of Victorians, it wasn't that decision that lost it, though it probably didn't help.



No, it didn't help.  The Libs were too eager to sign contracts believing this project was a vote winner for them and also setting a financial trap for Andrews if it wasn't.  Taking the EWL to the election was the more responsible thing to do knowing Labor opposed it.  Now we have a real financial mess to contend with in Vic brought to us by the party of financial responsibility.



> There was a change of leader mid government which always doesn't help either however the main cause in my view was that it was a way to get back at Tony who has damaged the Liberal brand and is perceived to be incompetent,unfair and dishonest. Tony is toxic down here. If he is still leader at the next election, I can promise he won't have many Victorian seats. They used his face on a lot of the advertising.



I don't think Abbott's toxicity is limited to just Vic.  If Tony leads the Libs to the next election we will have yet another one term Lib government. 



> A real shame, Napthine deserved to win. I worry for Victoria. We all know there will  be no money for anything once the new Premier has rewarded all the public sector unions with big pay rises.



Why did Napthine "deserve" to win exactly?  As for ending prolonged pay disputes with public sector workers, it's time for real negotiation to begin to end this fiasco.  If you want to criticize unreasonable pay increases, start with politicians and corporate senior management where double digit annual pay rises are common.


----------



## explod (30 November 2014)

What a lot of judgemental rubbish on here this morning. 

Andrews is new. he speaks in clear and articulate manner,  the past is gone and none of can judge. 

Lets just accept the verdict,  move on and see.


----------



## banco (30 November 2014)

noco said:


> IMHO, I believe the Labor Party in Victoria have an enormous challenge ahead of them and time will tell as to whether they have the expertise to carry out what they say.....If they do not perform in the first two years then they will hand an easy victory to the Liberal Party come the next Federal election.




Now you are really grasping at straws.


----------



## noco (30 November 2014)

banco said:


> Now you are really grasping at straws.




Time will tell......time will tell.


----------



## Smurf1976 (30 November 2014)

Anyone in Vic like to comment as to what extent state issues versus federal issues dominated the election campaign and people's thinking?

Normally, a state election is fought over state issues but I'm getting the distinct impression as an "outsider" that federal politics, particularly Tony Abbott personally, may have played a role here?


----------



## Calliope (30 November 2014)

It is not surprising that the Napthine government was a one-termer The result four years ago was an anomaly and now things have returned to the status quo. Victorians love their unions and the more militant they are the better. In Melbourne firms like Grocon are the villains and the CMFEU are their protectors and heroes.

Andrews has a great appeal to the unions and he had his rallies stacked with public service unionists posing as concerned citizens, some even wearing nurses uniforms. Shorten is also a union tool and he will have taken note of the effectiveness of these tactics.


----------



## Knobby22 (30 November 2014)

explod said:


> What a lot of judgemental rubbish on here this morning.
> 
> Andrews is new. he speaks in clear and articulate manner,  the past is gone and none of can judge.
> 
> Lets just accept the verdict,  move on and see.




He does come across as a true leader. Hopefully he will do well.


----------



## explod (30 November 2014)

Smurf1976 said:


> Anyone in Vic like to comment as to what extent state issues versus federal issues dominated the election campaign and people's thinking?
> 
> Normally, a state election is fought over state issues but I'm getting the distinct impression as an "outsider" that federal politics, particularly Tony Abbott personally, may have played a role here?




Absolutely,  i still think labor were there but the firemfighters union and the Rabbit effect would have been up to 5%


----------



## noco (30 November 2014)

explod said:


> Absolutely,  i still think labor were there but the firemfighters union and the Rabbit effect would have been up to 5%




What about the Bull $hi^en affect?


----------



## explod (30 November 2014)

noco said:


> What about the Bull $hi^en affect?




You win that one hands down noco

Last election here the Libs peomised the world on public transport and delivered virtually none of it.


----------



## noco (30 November 2014)

explod said:


> You win that one hands down noco
> 
> Last election here the Libs peomised the world on public transport and delivered virtually none of it.





The unbiased Bolt explains it well.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...abbott_for_losing_victoria_ignores_the_facts/


----------



## sptrawler (30 November 2014)

Maybe the Victorian's feel, that with a State Labor Party and possibly a Federal Labor Party in 18months, they might bail out the car industry.

Well it isn't that far fetched, Bill Shorten did say, if Labor were in they would have commited tax payer funds to support them.

That would annoy a lot of people, who have paid over the odds, for 'run out' collectibles.lol


----------



## explod (30 November 2014)

noco said:


> The unbiased Bolt explains it well.
> 
> http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...abbott_for_losing_victoria_ignores_the_facts/




Bolt,  gaaaawd noco,  you just put up so much rationlisation devoid of content. 

He says "uninspiring leaders"  Andrews,  and many agree was inspiring,  consistent and put forward achieable objectives. 

"uncontrasting programs".   Just the East West link could not be more  of a contrast between the two than you could ever find. 

Martin Puka rejected the Abbot factor,  so what,  I reject his take by what I heard at the booths,  even Libs on duty where saying "its a shame that Abbott has figured so much on the media of late" 

Why would Andrews mention Abbott,  he was doing a good enough job to bring the Libs down so why waste time.   And in his election speach,  Bolt is a whacker. 

He goes on to say the Libs were too timid.   Struth,  in the runup to the election campaign the taxpayer funded adds to support East West Link hit us on prime televison every night.   In the last week they letterboxed my place every day,  and Naphthine was exposed storming everywhere via more than double teletime. 

Bolt just sits back and generates hot air from within and out through his rear and people like you noco feed on it.


----------



## boofhead (30 November 2014)

That Bolt article was a bit thin and didn't seem to show any detailed reasoning.

Federal Labor will make something of the Vic result and push it on to the federal Coalition.

Federal Coalition will say it is a Victorian state issue.

State Labor will be a bit split. They will claim better campaigning. Use the common community issues like health, education etc. to try and bend federal Coalition as they will be paying for part of it. I expect state Labor will also make a little of Abbott (from what I heard Labor used Abbott's image to scare people) to further push the feed for the federal govt to help Victoria more on the common community issues to save the federal seats.

State Liberal have had some individuals mention the federal issues as having an impact. They will be pulled in line as senior internal figures will not have it.

While state and federal issues often have clear distinction there is plenty of overlap and it is naive to dismiss any role federal governments and parties have on state politics. Major infrastructure and major community services have federal co-funding.


----------



## sptrawler (30 November 2014)

boofhead said:


> That Bolt article was a bit thin and didn't seem to show any detailed reasoning.
> 
> Federal Labor will make something of the Vic result and push it on to the federal Coalition.
> 
> ...




It will be interesting to see how Victoria goes, over the next 18 months.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/v...-parliament-back-to-work-20141130-11x62q.html

Plenty of spending promises, back to work, nurse to patient ratios enshrined in legislation, refunding TAFE. 
Sounds like more money, for same outcome.

Don't hear much on the other side of the ledger, other than stopping a major infrastructure work East West link, don't know if it is needed or not being from W.A.


----------



## noco (30 November 2014)

explod said:


> Bolt,  gaaaawd noco,  you just put up so much rationlisation devoid of content.
> 
> He says "uninspiring leaders"  Andrews,  and many agree was inspiring,  consistent and put forward achieable objectives.
> 
> ...





So what are you grumbling about?.....Labor won the election in Victoria......that is democracy......so be happy.

If Labor does not do the right by the Victorians then Andrews might also be a one term government.

Labor will be under the spot light.

Actually, I could not care less whether cow calves or the cat has kittens in Victoria...I live in the best state in Australia.....We have a good government who is starting peg back another Labor financial mess created by two incompetent people Beattie and Bligh...an absolute hopeless pair...They were borrowing money to pay an overstaffed public service...overstaffed by some 14,000.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (30 November 2014)

noco said:


> So what are you grumbling about?.....Labor won the election in Victoria......that is democracy......so be happy.
> 
> If Labor does not do the right by the Victorians then Andrews might also be a one term government.
> 
> ...




I would agree noco,

The Victorian ALP deserve to be congratulated on a good victory in their lower house. 

I must admit to knowing as much about Victorians as I do of the Uighur of Western China.

From my experience watching them they seem to be great buyers of car and caravan insurance, and other scams such as funeral insurance and pots and pans which last forever.

Is there anyone in Victoria under the age of 68?

gg


----------



## banco (30 November 2014)

sptrawler said:


> Maybe the Victorian's feel, that with a State Labor Party and possibly a Federal Labor Party in 18months, they might bail out the car industry.
> 
> Well it isn't that far fetched, Bill Shorten did say, if Labor were in they would have commited tax payer funds to support them.
> 
> That would annoy a lot of people, who have paid over the odds, for 'run out' collectibles.lol




Yeah that is pretty far fetched.


----------



## sptrawler (30 November 2014)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Is there anyone in Victoria under the age of 68?
> 
> gg




If there are, GG, they will be given counselling about going back to work, as a nurse, or becoming a TAFE lecturer.


----------



## explod (30 November 2014)

noco said:


> So what are you grumbling about?.....Labor won the election in Victoria......that is democracy......so be happy.
> 
> If Labor does not do the right by the Victorians then Andrews might also be a one term government.
> 
> ...




I seem to have to repeat myself with  you noco.   I am a green and do not care too much for labour. 

My post was about Bolt's unsubstantated hot air. 

So read my posts properly and desist from stamping your foot,  it indicates your frustration at not having an argument going all your own way. 

And the way QLD seem to be going with coal and dangers to the great barrier reef I would not be too sure about your future elections.


----------



## noco (30 November 2014)

explod said:


> I seem to have to repeat myself with  you noco.   I am a green and do not care too much for labour.
> 
> My post was about Bolt's *unsubstantated hot air. *
> 
> ...




What a load of cods waddle.....the Great Barrier reef has never been in better shape than it is now and  after 25 years constant watch by Professor Peter Ridd of James Cook University he has recently stated the reef is very healthy......I live up here and have seen it plenty of times myself.

The state and federal governments have strict environmental conditions applying to the Great Barrier Reef.

You have to stop listening to that nut from the USA.....what's his name?...Oh yes Barack Obama...What the hell would he know about our Barrier Reef and the conditions that apply.....he would not have a clue nor did he bother to find out.

So you are a "GREENIE"......The watermelon group.....I think most of us say green outside and red inside.... .WELL I'LL be blowed......but I won't hold that against you...that is your prerogative so long as you don't try to ram it down my throat.  
 BTW it is Labor not Labour.


----------



## explod (1 December 2014)

I have worked and lived in Queensland,  and dived the great barrier reef.  First time 1965.
On its changing condition you are very wrong.   What you think of the reef will not change the experiencd or feeling of others. 

Spelling,  whe cares,  did not stop my Honours Degree.


----------



## noco (1 December 2014)

explod said:


> I have worked and lived in Queensland,  and dived the great barrier reef.  First time 1965.
> On its changing condition you are very wrong.   What you think of the reef will not change the experiencd or feeling of others.
> 
> Spelling,  whe cares,  did not stop my Honours Degree.




So you say you know more about the Great Barrier Reef than Professor Peter Ridd and Professor Bob Cater (JCU) who have studied the reef and climate change for the past 25 years.

So you don't believe the state and federal governments have strict environmental controls on the reef.

I would say you know as little as Obama does.

The Greens could not care less about the environment...they use that as an excuse to disrupt the economy and progress of development in Queensland......This is a typical Fabian treat...if you are not aware of their tactics, then you are very naive and you should do some research on that organization.

A bit off topic of this thread but it is in reply.

There you go explod, all you need to know about the protection of the *Great Barrier Reef*...the laws and regulations are very strict...It is a pity Obama did not bother to do some research before he opened that big mouth of his....Obama was also advised by his ambassador not to make that speech to those uni students. 

http://www.gbrmpa.gov.au/about-us/legislation-regulations-and-policies#leg_spec_gbrmp


----------



## Tisme (1 December 2014)

noco said:


> ...They were borrowing money to pay an overstaffed public service...overstaffed by some 14,000.




Some would say that number was too low by a factor of 10 

I think the voters in Victoria have sent a message about how much Australia really likes the idea/prospects of end of the world austerity budgets so soon after boom times.


----------



## banco (1 December 2014)

noco said:


> So you say you know more about the Great Barrier Reef than Professor Peter Ridd and Professor Bob Cater (JCU) who have studied the reef and climate change for the past 25 years.
> 
> So you don't believe the state and federal governments have strict environmental controls on the reef.
> 
> ...




You are showing your ignorance again Noco.  Climate change is the threat to the reef that Obama was highlighting and unless the Australian laws and regulations can limit other countries carbon emissions it's not going to make much difference.


----------



## noco (1 December 2014)

banco said:


> You are showing your ignorance again Noco.  Climate change is the threat to the reef that Obama was highlighting and unless the Australian laws and regulations can limit other countries carbon emissions it's not going to make much difference.




What is your proof of your statement...where is your link?

Apart from that you are completely off topic...the thread is about the Victorian election.

You and plod should direct these matters to the Climate Change Hysteria thread.


----------



## IFocus (1 December 2014)

From an outsiders view the change in leader, Shaw dramas throw in Abbott government dramas and not to many errors by Andrews handed the election to Labor.

Kennets comments also rang true about Abbott's timing on bad news would have been different if it was NSW's. 

I wish Andrews would say some thing a bit more intelligent than repeat the mantra people come first not a good sign IMHO but the Vics do have a higher level of sophistication and less corruption than the NSW's Rum Corps or  Queensland Joh Bjelke-Petersen / Newman view on government.


----------



## IFocus (1 December 2014)

noco said:


> What is your proof of your statement...where is your link?
> 
> Apart from that you are completely off topic...the thread is about the Victorian election.
> 
> You and plod should direct these matters to the Climate Change Hysteria thread.




I thought the Reef Authority said than the GBR has lost 1/2 its coral over the last 20 years?


----------



## banco (1 December 2014)

noco said:


> What is your proof of your statement...where is your link?
> 
> Apart from that you are completely off topic...the thread is about the Victorian election.
> 
> You and plod should direct these matters to the Climate Change Hysteria thread.




I like how you retreat to "this is off topic" after it becomes clear you don't have a clue what you are talking about.  I'll just leave this here:

Mr Obama told the University of Queensland audience on the sidelines of the G20 meeting he wanted the reef to still exist "50 years from now" so his grandchildren could visit.

While Ms Bishop and other Coalition leaders have criticised the US President's intervention, leading scientists have come to his support.

Mr Obama was "right on the money", Ove Hoegh-Guldberg, director of the university's Global Change Institute, said. "He was stating a fact.

"We have one of the jewels of the planet in our possession and we should care a lot about climate and he wasn't getting that from our leader [Prime Minister Tony Abbott]," Dr Hoegh-Guldberg said.

Peer-reviewed research published by Dr Hoegh-Guldberg in 2012 said the global agreement to limit CO₂ concentrations to 450 parts per million in a bid to keep global warming to under 2 degrees from pre-industrial times would not be enough to protect the reefs.

Any increase above 1.5 degrees would be devastating, the research found.

The reef has already shrunk by half in 30 years, he added, with climate change a factor in its retreat.

Threats

Charlie Veron, a former chief scientist at the Australian Institute of Marine Science, went further, saying the Abbott government was downplaying the dire future facing the Great Barrier Reef and coral reefs everywhere.

"In the long term, that is the whole of this century, we are going to have the Great Barrier Reef slaughtered," Dr Veron, a world authority who has scientifically named about one-quarter of all known corals, said.

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/c...s-claim-reef-not-at-risk-20141121-11r4a6.html


----------



## noco (1 December 2014)

banco said:


> I like how you retreat to "this is off topic" after it becomes clear you don't have a clue what you are talking about.  I'll just leave this here:
> 
> Mr Obama told the University of Queensland audience on the sidelines of the G20 meeting he wanted the reef to still exist "50 years from now" so his grandchildren could visit.
> 
> ...




*You* *are completely off topic on this thread....I have made my remarks on the appropriate thread...Climate change has nothing to do with the Victorian election......that is a political change for the worse.*


----------



## basilio (1 December 2014)

*What an absolute and complete load of rubbish  you spout Noco.  Just total and complete illogical drivel.*

Two points.

1) Climate Change is a political issue in elections. People realise it is a problem. They want intelligent responses to a very real issue.

2) You have absolutely NFC about the topic of CC. You simply drivel and deny. It doesn't matter how many scientists come out with truckloads empirical studies, observations and evidence... you simply twitter on with meaningless nonsense.


----------



## noco (1 December 2014)

basilio said:


> *What an absolute and complete load of rubbish  you spout Noco.  Just total and complete illogical drivel.*
> 
> Two points.
> 
> ...




If you want to believe those so called scientist so be it......it has already been proven earlier in this thread how inaccurate the IPPC reporting happens to be.

It is a shame you lower your self to personal insinuations......I do hope Joe Blow makes note of your remarks.

You are still off topic.


----------



## noco (1 December 2014)

The new Labor Government appears to be facing a hostile upper house and may well realize what the Federal Government has had to face from a hostile bloody minded senate. 

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...140238059?sv=fed379641529c81aee6bff62893a5186

*The upper house is expected to be a nightmare for the new *government, with up to six micro parties tipped to have the balance of power*


----------



## So_Cynical (1 December 2014)

The Minister for Trade and Investment Andrew Robb was on the Insiders program on Sunday, an interesting interview discussing the Victorian result and its federal implications etc etc....apparently the Labor machine did a hell of a job in personalising the pitch to swing voters in marginal seats.
`
[video=youtube_share;vJY1y4zhPsg]http://youtu.be/vJY1y4zhPsg[/video]


----------



## Tisme (1 December 2014)

noco said:


> The new Labor Government appears to be facing a hostile upper house and may well realize what the Federal Government has had to face from a hostile bloody minded senate.
> 
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...140238059?sv=fed379641529c81aee6bff62893a5186
> 
> *The upper house is expected to be a nightmare for the new *government, with up to six micro parties tipped to have the balance of power*




Didn't they already experience that during Rudd/Gillard years? They had to negotiate their position with the greens because the LNP opposed everything, which at the time was explained away by Abbott as their job (which made me wonder why they turned up at all. Perhaps if he had been more approachable seven years ago, he could have negotiated the LNP cause into legislation?

Of course when I did law, I was led to belief the opposition is the alternative govt, but I guess that was a bit wishful.


----------



## noco (1 December 2014)

Tisme said:


> Didn't they already experience that during Rudd/Gillard years? They had to negotiate their position with the greens because the LNP opposed everything, which at the time was explained away by Abbott as their job (which made me wonder why they turned up at all. Perhaps if he had been more approachable seven years ago, he could have negotiated the LNP cause into legislation?
> 
> Of course when I did law, I was led to belief the opposition is the alternative govt, but I guess that was a bit wishful.




I think if you check your facts you will find Gillard had a lot easier passage through the senate...she had a larger majority in the senate than Abbott had particularly before the 1st July 2014.....after that date negotiations had to be carried out with PUP and the independents.


----------



## banco (1 December 2014)

noco said:


> I think if you check your facts you will find Gillard had a lot easier passage through the senate...she had a larger majority in the senate than Abbott had particularly before the 1st July 2014.....after that date negotiations had to be carried out with PUP and the independents.




I don't know where you get this stuff from. Gillard never had a majority?


----------



## sydboy007 (1 December 2014)

noco said:


> The new Labor Government appears to be facing a hostile upper house and may well realize what the Federal Government has had to face from a hostile bloody minded senate.
> 
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...140238059?sv=fed379641529c81aee6bff62893a5186
> 
> *The upper house is expected to be a nightmare for the new *government, with up to six micro parties tipped to have the balance of power*




lets hope you will make the same level of calls for the Victorian Senate to get out of the way and let the Government govern as you have at the federal level.

Fingers crossed the VIC Labor ministers will try to introduce a fairer budget so as to give the micro parties less leverage to block policies.


----------



## sydboy007 (1 December 2014)

banco said:


> I don't know where you get this stuff from. Gillard never had a majority?




Even though there's plenty of evidence that the greens often voted against Labor in the senate, Noco still believes that this is a Fabian socialist plot to muddy the waters.


----------



## noco (1 December 2014)

sydboy007 said:


> lets hope you will make the same level of calls for the Victorian Senate to get out of the way and let the Government govern as you have at the federal level.
> 
> Fingers crossed the VIC Labor ministers will try to introduce a fairer budget so as to give the micro parties less leverage to block policies.





It is out of my hands old mate......time will tell.


----------



## trainspotter (1 December 2014)

Tisme said:


> Didn't they already experience that during Rudd/Gillard years? They had to negotiate their position with the greens because the LNP opposed everything, which at the time was explained away by Abbott as their job (which made me wonder why they turned up at all. Perhaps if he had been more approachable seven years ago, he could have negotiated the LNP cause into legislation?
> 
> *Of course when I did law*, I was led to belief the opposition is the alternative govt, but I guess that was a bit wishful.




Where did you do law?


----------



## noco (1 December 2014)

banco said:


> I don't know where you get this stuff from. Gillard never had a majority?




She had a large majority thanks to the coalition with the Greens.....remember she signed an agreement with Bob Brown......the Greens gave her what ever she wanted in exchange for the carbon dioxide tax....yes the carbon tax.,,,She also had the independents by the short and curlies. 

"THERE WILL BE NO CARBON TAX UNDER THE GOVERNMENT I LEAD".


----------



## Tisme (1 December 2014)

noco said:


> I think if you check your facts you will find Gillard had a lot easier passage through the senate...she had a larger majority in the senate than Abbott had particularly before the 1st July 2014.....after that date negotiations had to be carried out with PUP and the independents.




You'd have to steer me in the right direction on that, because I thought Fabian Labor didn't have a majority in the senate; even now it's what ... 8 less seats than the LNP? 

One would think that if policy was so good for Australia, that the other 18 Senators, who aren't part of the rotten Fabian Labor party would vote enmasse, even the Fabian Greens,  for whatever the Non Fabian Abbott Govt  puts up and in the process stick it to the enemies of Australia = the Fabian Labs.


----------



## Tisme (1 December 2014)

trainspotter said:


> Where did you do law?





I'm guessing that is either rhetorical or loaded ? 

Yes I did law in QLD, engineering in WA, marketing in QLD and three technical trades, diplomas, etc.  I have so many licences it cripples me financially. Even some Harvard stuff. You may rise Sir Knight


----------



## SirRumpole (1 December 2014)

Tisme said:


> I'm guessing that is either rhetorical or loaded ?
> 
> Yes I did law in QLD, engineering in WA, marketing in QLD and three technical trades, diplomas, etc.  I have so many licences it cripples me financially. Even some Harvard stuff. You may rise Sir Knight




So they kept booting you out of Unis and you had to move states to try something else ?


----------



## trainspotter (1 December 2014)

Tisme said:


> I'm guessing that is either rhetorical or loaded ?
> 
> Yes I did law in QLD, engineering in WA, marketing in QLD and three technical trades, diplomas, etc.  I have so many licences it cripples me financially. Even some Harvard stuff. You may rise Sir Knight




Tickets please. :1zhelp:

You might want to learn how to use grammar and spell check as well.


----------



## explod (1 December 2014)

noco said:


> If you want to believe those so called scientist so be it......it has already been proven earlier in this thread how inaccurate the IPPC reporting happens to be.
> 
> It is a shame you lower your self to personal insinuations......I do hope Joe Blow makes note of your remarks.
> 
> You are still off topic.




It was a very important issue in this capaign and is why the Greens continued to make inroads. 

Over 90% of scientists agree that climate change is real and has largely accellerated due to cars,  oil and coal. 

The IPPC reports are in fact massaged down by Governments before release.   And the methane content is also excluded. 

The names you quoted back to me earlier today are part of the oil based governments cartel to discredit the real facts. 

It is clearly set out in a book I quoted some time back on another thread,  called "Climate Wars"  the writer of which used to be the head geologist for over forty years for the major oil companies. 

As time permits I will set it out again in detail in that other other thread. 

But as an issue it is A political and this momenrum is going to rise to the tiop as people realise that we are in real trouble. 

Ole Pal you have a distinct problem and as Basilio noted what you are saying in my words is crapola.


----------



## Tisme (1 December 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> So they kept booting you out of Unis and you had to move states to try something else ?




 yeah that would be it

fricken peasants!!! :

Trainspotter I take it you are the resident spelling nazi that every board has and still uses bad grammar like "might want", splits infinitives, ends in prepositions, etc. all in one sentence?


----------



## trainspotter (1 December 2014)

Tisme said:


> yeah that would be it
> 
> fricken peasants!!! :
> 
> Trainspotter I take it you are the resident spelling nazi that every board has and still uses bad grammar like "might want", splits infinitives, ends in prepositions, etc. all in one sentence?




Not at all Tisme the exulted one. I am merely pointing out that a noteworthy individual as yourself "did" law then I am glad you are not representing me tis all Tisme.


----------



## explod (1 December 2014)

We do not need a slanging match and we are way off topic. 

I have a uni honours degree and spell bad too.   Its not important,  it is the content of what yiu say and understand that is important. 

So get over it or move on.   We are talking about the state elections for victoria 2014.

And even though I do not support labor,  most will agree that Daniel Andrews spoke eloquently the last few days with good content and delivery. 

On another thread to come we will gradually guage whether he is any good or not. 

Now working from my little tablet I may have some spelling mistakes,  which are difficult to edit,  but the message should be clear.


----------



## trainspotter (1 December 2014)

explod said:


> We do not need a slanging match and we are way off topic.
> 
> I have a uni honours degree and spell bad too.   Its not important,  it is the content of what yiu say and understand that is important.




A lawyer would "practice" law and not "did" law. Whatever.


----------



## noco (1 December 2014)

explod said:


> We do not need a slanging match and we are way off topic.
> 
> I have a uni honours degree and spell bad too.   Its not important,  it is the content of what yiu say and understand that is important.
> 
> ...




I am off topic again...just thought I would add a little mirth.

May I suggest you invest in a dictionary...I have one beside me all the time.....If I have to check the spelling or the meaning of a word, I read the whole page...it has been a great help to me.

I once had trouble saying my ABC.....I would go L M N O P S T........I was always slipping on my *RS*.


----------



## explod (1 December 2014)

noco said:


> I am off topic again...just thought I would add a little mirth.
> 
> May I suggest you invest in a dictionary...I have one beside me all the time.....If I have to check the spelling or the meaning of a word, I read the whole page...it has been a great help to me.
> 
> I once had trouble saying my ABC.....I would go L M N O P S T........I was always slipping on my *RS*.




Life is short noco and there is no time to bother with a dictionay on this notebook

On edit the page exposed is short and for the life of me I cannot get it to scroll down.   That's why on longer posts it is worser  at the end. 

And as I say to younger ones around me these days,  we have to keep going as hard as we can asere will be plenty of time to rest when were dead.  So bugger the spelling lets check out this Andrews fella.  Going over now,  OUT.


----------



## Julia (1 December 2014)

explod said:


> Over 90% of scientists agree that climate change is real and has largely accellerated due to cars,  oil and coal.



I keep reading this.  It has become an oft repeated cliche seemingly on the basis that if you repeat something often enough the masses will accept it as true.

So, explod, could you please point me to a clear link which proves these 90% all agreeing that anthropogenic climate change is occurring?  ie something other than just someone repeating it again?  Or the usual bland statement by the IPCC which serves their own ends?

Perhaps a clear comment on the validity of the peer review process would help.  If the peer review process is corrupted by any dissenting views not being accepted for publication, how valid can any ultimate conclusions be?


----------



## Tisme (1 December 2014)

trainspotter said:


> A lawyer would "practice" law and not "did" law. Whatever.




 I like your style.


----------



## Tink (2 December 2014)

*Unions ready to stick out hands*
_
DANIEL Andrews owes Victoria’s public-sector unions big time.

It wasn’t just the members of the Ambulance Employees Australia of Victoria, with their graffiti-covered vehicles outside polling stations, or the United Firefighters Union members doorknocking marginal seats.

The Australian Nursing and Midwifery Federation played its role, too.

The paramedics will want their long-running EBA dispute settled on favourable terms, even though the previous Government had basically given away everything there was to give away there.

The UFU will want the current court action by the MFB to cancel its EBA dropped. MFB management has argued that the current EBA effectively hands the union a veto of decision-making at every level of the organisation, a veto the UFU will be keen to maintain. The UFU will also be expecting the new Government to move forward on its long-running campaign for a fully paid, fully unionised CFA.

The nurses, too, have a shopping list for the new government. Nurse-patient ratios were once a matter for doctors and hospitals — a clinical and medical matter — not an IR matter.

Under the previous Labor Government, Victoria pioneered the way by enshrining them in industrial awards. Now the Premier-to-be has promised to write nurse-patient ratios into legislation.

What needs to be understood from the outset about this new government, however, is that the power and influence of the public-sector unions will stem not just from the major — indeed decisive — role they have played in its election, but from the fact that they are all part of the Left wing of the Labor Party.

Keeping the family happy will be a difficult and expensive task, as will dealing with the consequences if Mr Andrews pushes ahead with his plan to scrap the East West Link._

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi.../story-fnocy1xj-1227140182034#social-comments


----------



## SirRumpole (2 December 2014)

Julia said:


> I keep reading this.  It has become an oft repeated cliche seemingly on the basis that if you repeat something often enough the masses will accept it as true.
> 
> So, explod, could you please point me to a clear link which proves these 90% all agreeing that anthropogenic climate change is occurring?  ie something other than just someone repeating it again?  Or the usual bland statement by the IPCC which serves their own ends?
> 
> Perhaps a clear comment on the validity of the peer review process would help.  If the peer review process is corrupted by any dissenting views not being accepted for publication, how valid can any ultimate conclusions be?




I'm not explod, but you may be interested in this

http://www.theguardian.com/environm...treet-journal-denies-global-warming-consensus


----------



## noco (2 December 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> I'm not explod, but you may be interested in this
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/environm...treet-journal-denies-global-warming-consensus




The good old "FABIAN" led newspaper...what else would you expect?...Originally run by the communist party.

It is very easy for them to fudge a percentage by being very selective......It is there way of promoting their propaganda.

Read "RESTORE AUSTRALIA"!!!!!!!!!!    IiT EXPLAINS HOW THEY DO IT.


----------



## SirRumpole (2 December 2014)

noco said:


> The good old "FABIAN" led newspaper...what else would you expect?...Originally run by the communist party.
> 
> It is very easy for them to fudge a percentage by being very selective......It is there way of promoting their propaganda.
> 
> Read "RESTORE AUSTRALIA"!!!!!!!!!!    IiT EXPLAINS HOW THEY DO IT.




Well noco, you just write to them and tell them where they went wrong in their research, and let us know what they say


----------



## basilio (2 December 2014)

So Noco you actually read the Guardian article ?  the one that goes through the multiple peer reviewed studies which simply count up the myriads of scientific (no Andrew Bolt) peer reviewed papers on CC/global warming and related topics? 

But of course  a person who steadfastly believes that the BOM has fudged its own date nation wide and that we have no warming in Australia would have absolutely no problem  just denouncing another half dozen reviews of 10,000 other papers would they they ?


----------



## noco (2 December 2014)

basilio said:


> So Noco you actually read the Guardian article ?  the one that goes through the multiple peer reviewed studies which simply count up the myriads of scientific (no Andrew Bolt) peer reviewed papers on CC/global warming and related topics?
> 
> But of course  a person who steadfastly believes that the BOM has fudged its own date nation wide and that we have no warming in Australia would have absolutely no problem  just denouncing another half dozen reviews of 10,000 other papers would they they ?




Of course I read it but do not believe it...The Guardian will always push this peer reviewed crap but tell me why don't they show some balance and publish articles by scientist who are skeptics?.......There are plenty out there, but the Guardian and the ABC will suppress them when ever they can.

I am sure you know why.....It is because the Guardian and the ABC are riddled with FABIANS to make sure their propaganda is pushed under the nose of the naive......push often enough and you will get them to believe it...

The Guardian is like the ABC....very very biased in deed.

I am sick to death of hearing about this Global Warming crap......there has been no Global Warming for 17 years.


----------



## explod (2 December 2014)

Global warming is not propoganda noco. 

Get over it ole pal and move on. 

Talk about the state election and what a great result it is for the people of Victoria.


----------



## noco (2 December 2014)

explod said:


> Global warming is not propoganda noco.
> 
> Get over it ole pal and move on.
> 
> Talk about the state election and what a great result it is for the people of Victoria.




Global Warming  is propaganda pushed by the ABC and the Guardian.

Ah yes lets talk about the Victorian election....the CFMEU has now gained control of Victoria.....we will be watching Victoria sliding down the hill into the quagmire of bigger debt and deficit just like all the other Labor operations state and federal.


----------



## SirRumpole (2 December 2014)

noco said:


> Global Warming  is propaganda pushed by the ABC and the Guardian.




And 97% of climate scientists




> Ah yes lets talk about the Victorian election....the CFMEU has now gained control of Victoria.....we will be watching Victoria sliding down the hill into the quagmire of bigger debt and deficit just like all the other Labor operations state and federal.




How much money will Victoria save by not building the WestConnex (or whatever it's called) ?

This was a pork barrell election promise by the Federal and State Libs which backfired. Victorians obviously think there are better ways of spending the money, and as you don't live there I don't see how you can tell them what to think.


----------



## noco (2 December 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> And 97% of climate scientists
> 
> 
> 
> ...




A survey indicated 60% of Victorians wanted the East/West freeway.


----------



## SirRumpole (2 December 2014)

noco said:


> A survey indicated 60% of Victorians wanted the East/West freeway.




Another survey, called an election, indicated that that wasn't really all that important to a lot of Victorians.


----------



## overhang (2 December 2014)

noco said:


> A survey indicated 60% of Victorians wanted the East/West freeway.




Well if that's the case then shouldn't we have kept the carbon tax Noco? 







> The automated phone poll of 1369 people was conducted last weekend and revealed 62 per cent of respondents wanted to keep the price on carbon and 38 per cent wanted it removed even if doing so damaged revenue.



 Or do polls only count when they suit our predisposition?  http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...t-to-keep-carbon-tax-poll-20130713-2px4d.html


----------



## Calliope (2 December 2014)

> THE  unprecedented union ground campaign that ousted the Napthine government — including firefighters, nurses and paramedics door-knocking in fake uniforms — will be repeated in a bid to make Tony Abbott a one-term prime minister.




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...tory-in-victoria/story-fnqetyrp-1227141406596


----------



## trainspotter (2 December 2014)

> Labor replicated the latest campaign techniques from the United States and incorporated them into its traditional campaign machine built around the labour movement. Helped along by the Coalition's demonisation of unions, Trades Hall  spent the past eight months mobilising thousands of *union volunteers* – fire fighters, paramedics, nurses, teachers and others – converting them into a "boots on the ground" campaign army.
> 
> The Labor field campaign made more than 500,000 phone calls, including 23,000  on the Thursday night before polling day. It also door-knocked more than 170,000 homes. Meanwhile, the Trades Hall campaign involved 2200 *union volunteers* who door knocked 93,000 homes and made 123,000 phone calls in six marginal seats – Frankston, Bentleigh, Mordialloc, Carrum, Monbulk and Bellarine.
> 
> Doorknocking can be  a thankless task. On average, one in four people shut the door on you. *With someone in uniform, it never happens*.




http://www.theage.com.au/comment/vi...ns-blew-up-the-coalition-20141130-11x325.html

Touche'


----------



## Julia (2 December 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> I'm not explod,



That's for sure.


> but you may be interested in this




Thank you, Rumpole.  At this stage I've only had a chance to quickly scan the link.

My main concern goes to the validity of the peer review process.  I've come across several accounts of scientists saying they have done detailed work which contradicts the popular consensus, but because of the dominant philosophy their submissions for publication are refused.

This sort of selective publication goes on all the time in many areas, as we all know.

Anyway, I should stay out of this particular argument.  I have no training in the area and therefore no genuine capacity to evaluate any claims one way or the other.


----------



## explod (2 December 2014)

noco said:


> Global Warming  is propaganda pushed by the ABC and the Guardian.
> 
> Ah yes lets talk about the Victorian election....the CFMEU has now gained control of Victoria.....we will be watching Victoria sliding down the hill into the quagmire of bigger debt and deficit just like all the other Labor operations state and federal.




Our debt is £8,600 per head,  the US is £56,000

There is just no comparison.   And you have to borrow to invest in the future.   So stop worrying about the debt.  The money the libs were going to spend in Easr West on public transport will have huge benefits on this state.


----------



## IFocus (2 December 2014)

trainspotter said:


> http://www.theage.com.au/comment/vi...ns-blew-up-the-coalition-20141130-11x325.html
> 
> Touche'





Vic Labor put a human face on the union tag, clever messaging so every time the Vic Coalition bashed unions they were doing Labor a favour.


----------



## trainspotter (2 December 2014)

IFocus said:


> Vic Labor put a human face on the union tag, clever messaging so every time the Vic Coalition bashed unions they were doing Labor a favour.




For once I agree with you. The Labor strategists used the old "union card" to humanise the proletariat into voting for them. Libs have a lot to learn with QLD and Federal coming up and not to rely on the big end of town to rescue them this time. Suits vs Blue Collar or Blue vs Red over and over again becomes dull to the mug punter voter. Introduction of nurses, police and firefighters (in uniform) doorknocking for politics (read Labor politicians) is a unique concept for the Australian political landscape. How can the blue bloods hit back? Send Kerry Stokes, Rupert Murdoch et al around to every door knob in marginal seats and beg for forgiveness? 

Unlikely IMO


----------



## moXJO (2 December 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> I'm not explod, but you may be interested in this
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/environm...treet-journal-denies-global-warming-consensus




Ask the right questions and everyone is onboard. The extremes from either side have muddled and politicised what shouldn't have even been an argument in the first place. 


> Investigative journalists at Popular Technology looked into precisely which papers were classified within Cook’s asserted 97 percent. The investigative journalists found Cook and his colleagues strikingly classified papers by such prominent, vigorous skeptics as Willie Soon, Craig Idso, Nicola Scafetta, Nir Shaviv, Nils-Axel Morner and Alan Carlin as supporting the 97-percent consensus.



http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2013/05/30/global-warming-alarmists-caught-doctoring-97-percent-consensus-claims/

As for the Vic election it wasn't that big of a surprise. The ar$e end of Australia SA,Vic and  TAS  tend to lean towards labor/Greens. While libs blew up during their term, I have no doubt Victorians would have been worse of if labor had of stayed in power last election.In my opinion libs needed one more term to shake out the non performers and get the state further back on track.
The other thing with Victoria is the unions operate like the mafia down there. I had the misfortune of witnessing some of the absurdities that go on. God help you this term.
Where the libs are losing badly is the social media battlefront and (supposedly) homegrown campaigns. Labor has pushed the 'Tony Abbott is bad' very successfully.


----------



## basilio (2 December 2014)

Julia said:


> That's for sure.
> 
> 
> Thank you, Rumpole.  At this stage I've only had a chance to quickly scan the link.
> ...




Well would you offer a better process? Peer review means scientists in the same field carefully scan submitted work to ensure  that at least the figures add up and that the paper adheres to basic principles of analysis, observation and scholarship.  Even if one might disagree with the writers point if these other factors are ok it will be accepted by scientific journals.

The "complaints" by some scientists that their work is not accepted for some journals ignores the fact that their work is fundamentally flawed and demonstrated to be so. And in any case the discussion about the weight of scientific acceptance of the principals of global warming isn't dependent on 5, 10 or 20 papers that some scientists insist should be published.

*The fact is any analysis of the research as documented in Sir Rumples link shows that the overwhelming mass of papers  accepts that we have substantial global warming*. A smaller section will directly look at the possible causes of this warming and come to the conclusion human activity is largely (but not totally ) responsible.  Another section of the research will examine the consequences on this warming in ecosystems, ocean warming, melting of ice and so on.

It is this body of evidence that climate change deniers et al simply dismiss.


----------



## sptrawler (2 December 2014)

trainspotter said:


> For once I agree with you. The Labor strategists used the old "union card" to humanise the proletariat into voting for them. Libs have a lot to learn with QLD and Federal coming up and not to rely on the big end of town to rescue them this time. Suits vs Blue Collar or Blue vs Red over and over again becomes dull to the mug punter voter. Introduction of nurses, police and firefighters (in uniform) doorknocking for politics (read Labor politicians) is a unique concept for the Australian political landscape. How can the blue bloods hit back? Send Kerry Stokes, Rupert Murdoch et al around to every door knob in marginal seats and beg for forgiveness?
> 
> Unlikely IMO




Yes, and payback for the support will be forthcoming, it will be interesting to see how Victoria is faring in 2 years.


----------



## noco (2 December 2014)

sptrawler said:


> Yes, and payback for the support will be forthcoming, it will be interesting to see how Victoria is faring in 2 years.




They will finish up like every other state and federal governments run by Labor...Labor just cannot manage money....big credit card spenders.


----------



## explod (2 December 2014)

noco said:


> They will finish up like every other state and federal governments run by Labor...Labor just cannot manage money....big credit card spenders.




Rubbish,  under Cain we did well in Victoria,  Hawk and Keating did well.  The recession we had was caused by the world economic situation. 

The libs looked good by following Thatcherism,  and selling everything but the kitchen sink.  Phones,  water and electricity should be regarded asbasic needs to the average community.  Privatisation ultimately takes away jobs which in turn increases welfare (dole) payments. 

And the dole distribution and supervising brings it close to equal cost.   Unemployed end in illness,  drug problems domestic crime and one could go on showing the inhumane and costly approach of the Libs.


----------



## IFocus (2 December 2014)

noco said:


> They will finish up like every other state and federal governments run by Labor...Labor just cannot manage money....big credit card spenders.




Actually in WA Labor run surpluses with Ripper as treasurer while the Coalition now run deficits


----------



## sptrawler (2 December 2014)

IFocus said:


> Actually in WA Labor run surpluses with Ripper as treasurer while the Coalition now run deficits




Yes, put in hospitals that have been needed for 30 years.

You really are rusted on. 
Barnett has fought for W.A more than most Premiers, but Labor self interest just can't acknowlege it.
Sad really, honest John was the last decent Labor person. 
Several since him ended up in gaol.
As Kim Beasley SNR said, it is a shame Labor has been taken over by undesirables, or something to that effect. 
Actually sorry Allan Carpenter was a Labor person and a reporter with admirable principles, there isn't many.
Just a self serving nasty bunch of hypocrites.IMO


----------



## Julia (2 December 2014)

basilio said:


> Well would you offer a better process? Peer review means scientists in the same field carefully scan submitted work to ensure  that at least the figures add up and that the paper adheres to basic principles of analysis, observation and scholarship.  Even if one might disagree with the writers point if these other factors are ok it will be accepted by scientific journals.



You describe the ideal.  *That's a long way from knowing that such a process actually takes place.
*

A relative of mine in Sydney, a medical researcher who had been working on a particular aspect of neurology, had his grant money run out.  He drove taxis for a year or so, desperate to stop such an existence.
Applied for a job with some climate research organisation, making it clear that he had no qualifications in the area, and was interviewed.  Told "don't worry about that, we'll soon have you understanding how to fulfil the job requirements:  we give you all the guidelines about the expected outcomes".
He withdrew his application.

I have nothing to add to this thread.  I've already said that I don't have any training or specific understanding so am not in a position to make any qualified comment other than anecdotal stuff like the above and the general impression of hysteria which has turned many people off.


----------



## Smurf1976 (2 December 2014)

Julia said:


> we give you all the guidelines about the expected outcomes




Sounds like how governments use management, policy etc consultants. 

Engage consultant, tell them the requirements (outcome) to be delivered, consultant writes report recommending that outcome, government says they're acting on the advice of consultants in making the decision.

Been there, seen that game.


----------



## IFocus (3 December 2014)

sptrawler said:


> Yes, put in hospitals that have been needed for 30 years.
> 
> *You really are rusted on. *
> Barnett has fought for W.A more than most Premiers, but Labor self interest just can't acknowlege it.
> ...




Can you check your medication levels 

I like Barny he is doing a great job (one man government) just a pity he has absolutely no one else in his government who is any good.

Your memory is fading, Liberal and Labor have had their issues with corruption all be it Labor won that one with Burke but the Libs are not clean skins (Ray O’Connor).


Remember Geoff Gallop


----------



## Tisme (3 December 2014)

IFocus said:


> Actually in WA Labor run surpluses with Ripper as treasurer while the Coalition now run deficits




yes it is mind boggling that WA has had so much inflow of money, a major increase in population and yet there seems to be very little to show for it, except a rather large overt and underlying latent debt.


----------



## Tisme (3 December 2014)

IFocus said:


> Your memory is fading, Liberal and Labor have had their issues with corruption all be it Labor won that one with Burke but the Libs are not clean skins (Ray O’Connor).




Having first hand knowledge of many characters in WA power circles I can tell you without any doubt that WA has a kind of Illuminati brotherhood that transcends politics. As you would know Sandgropers are happy to be part of Australia so long as Australia doesn't interfere with it. Only Wassies are allowed to criticise Wassies


----------



## sptrawler (3 December 2014)

IFocus said:


> Can you check your medication levels
> 
> I like Barny he is doing a great job (one man government) just a pity he has absolutely no one else in his government who is any good.
> 
> ...




Ray was small fry compared with Bourke, Parker etc. Then let's not forget the Penny Eastern affair and dear Carmen.


----------



## basilio (3 December 2014)

Well I think we really have moved into a brand new political/social world with this  election.

Labour gets in. Ok
Greens get their first seats in the Legislative Assembly..  Big Deal!!
Nationals get trashed . Ah Well probably expect a beating for this  "out of touch" conservative rural party..
Nationals pick new leaders.

New National party Deputy leader is

28 Year old Stephanie Ryan. Smart as a whip, Very easy on the eye. In fact absolutely delightful.

So* Thats* a surprise.

But it gets way, way, WAY better.



> her partner, Simon Huggins, is a member of the Labor Party and a councillor for the City of Yarra in inner Melbourne.
> 
> "We don't agree on everything, but he's a wonderful, caring and intelligent person. Our private life is separate to our work lives," she says.




FMD !!! The world has certainly turned !!!

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/v...the-country-partys-mould-20141203-11z7qj.html


----------



## moXJO (8 December 2014)

Lol one week 



> The militant union has flexed its muscle just a week after Labor won power in Victoria.
> 
> The Herald Sun saw CFMEU representatives block the site at Millers Rd, Altona, refusing access to trucks carrying building materials.
> 
> CFMEU representatives allegedly told subcontractors: “There’ll be no work here today.”




http://m.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/cfmeu-blockade-shuts-down-aldi-building-site/story-fni0fit3-1227146603546?nk=31d655b41c7b37b401b386a2ab0399eb


----------



## Tink (8 December 2014)

moXJO said:


> Lol one week
> 
> 
> 
> http://m.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/cfmeu-blockade-shuts-down-aldi-building-site/story-fni0fit3-1227146603546?nk=31d655b41c7b37b401b386a2ab0399eb




Yes, less than a week.

CFMEU back in business, means everyone else is out of business.

The construction companies have felt it.


----------



## explod (9 December 2014)

News just in is the the Greens are set to take the seat of Prahran in the lower house.  So two seats to the Greens in the Assembly and having never before held a lower house seat victoria before this is a hugestep forward. 

In the upper,  Legislative Councilh,  it looks as though all seats will be held with the possibility of a new one.   Though a lot of counting to be done here yet. 

Anecdotal suggest we are gaining a large percentage of support from women in the 20 to 35 year age group.   This sector is one that have a huge influence on children and young people coming towards voting age. 

Finally a truly democratic party is begining to emerge as a positive force in Australian politics.


----------



## Tink (10 December 2014)

We have already seen the Greens and Labor in action.

A disaster for this state.

Day four, and still the CMFEU stops work. 

Is that how they are creating employment?

Watch Victoria crash and burn, literally.


----------



## Calliope (10 December 2014)

explod said:


> Anecdotal suggest we are gaining a large percentage of support from women in the 20 to 35 year age group.   This sector is one that have a huge influence on children and young people coming towards voting age.
> 
> Finally a truly democratic party is begining to emerge as a positive force in Australian politics.




Well my anecdotal (evidence) is that they are a very negative force and they see their role in parliaments as wreckers of the economy...which they are doing very effectively in Canberra.


----------



## explod (10 December 2014)

Calliope said:


> Well my anecdotal (evidence) is that they are a very negative force and they see their role in parliaments as wreckers of the economy...which they are doing very effectively in Canberra.




Cite some examples?


----------



## trainspotter (10 December 2014)

Tink said:


> We have already seen the Greens and Labor in action.
> 
> A disaster for this state.
> 
> ...




Hear hear !



> “In the very first week of Daniel Andrews’ Labor government, we are already seeing a challenge to his authority,” Mr O’Brien said.
> 
> “Now is the time for Daniel Andrews to decide is he going to stand up for jobs in Victoria or is he going to stand by his factional mates in the building unions.
> 
> ...




http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...149069429?nk=b2d794c8cace698a9593e0c180d25b67


----------



## Tink (10 December 2014)

You have to wonder about these preferences.
Just looking at Prahran where The Greens won.

(Libs) Mr Newton-Brown got 44.82 per cent of primary votes ahead of 
(Labor) Mr Pharaoh’s 25.87 per cent and 
(Greens) Mr Hibbins, 24.76 per cent.


----------



## Tisme (10 December 2014)

Tink said:


> We have already seen the Greens and Labor in action.
> 
> A disaster for this state.
> 
> ...




I couldn't care less who runs the place, even Victoria, but can you expand on what is happening without referring to columnists with crosses to bear? I'm genuinely interested to know what the unions are doing and why they are doing it and how long this instance (industrial stoppage) has been going on for, overtly or otherwise.

Seriously I'd like to know what the facts are from a concerned Victorian viewpoint, not a politicised one.


----------



## explod (10 December 2014)

Tisme said:


> I couldn't care less who runs the place, even Victoria, but can you expand on what is happening without referring to columnists with crosses to bear? I'm genuinely interested to know what the unions are doing and why they are doing it and how long this instance (industrial stoppage) has been going on for, overtly or otherwise.
> 
> Seriously I'd like to know what the facts are from a concerned Victorian viewpoint, not a politicised one.




Agree.  Particularly the dribble from the MSM,  they are the front of the big end of town and distort to keep the general public from knowing what is going on and who are in each others pocket. 

Till now the Greens have had no effect or say in Victorian Politics.  Again this is a perception painted by the media and swallowed by the less informed. 

The Geeens have no alliances with the ALP,  in fact in many seats they hadthe Greens last on the voting cards. 

The Greens have absolutely no alliance with the CFMEU. 

So it is very early days and no judgements can be made till Parliament sits and we see what occurs. 

But I am sure the Ex Peeert Andrew Bolt will know it all before it all happens.   LOL


----------



## moXJO (10 December 2014)

Tisme said:


> I couldn't care less who runs the place, even Victoria, but can you expand on what is happening without referring to columnists with crosses to bear? I'm genuinely interested to know what the unions are doing and why they are doing it and how long this instance (industrial stoppage) has been going on for, overtly or otherwise.
> 
> Seriously I'd like to know what the facts are from a concerned Victorian viewpoint, not a politicised one.




On the aldi site?
It is apparently not about fair work conditions or pay.

Two possible reasons:

Aldi bringing in their specialist concretors from overseas.

Builder owes money to subbies from a previous job. Or the builder was blacklisted


----------



## Tink (11 December 2014)

Tisme, there are many reasons. 
We may have different views, but these are mine.

As I have already said, the unions have destroyed this state.
I have spoken to many, and they agree. 
They were useful once, but not like they are now.
You don't vote for one man, you vote for the party.

I don't agree with over bloated public systems, the wastage is sickening.
I don't like that the left have hijacked our public education system and media (ABC).
I put a lot of that behind the loss of our election too.

Don't get me wrong, the Libs aren't perfect, but if you want fairness, run it along the board.

Labor and the Greens, I don't agree with their ideology, since when is everything free?
Where did this thinking come from?
Where is the responsibility?

I don't agree with what they did trashing company cars to get their point across (the unions).

We seem to have a generation of feeling that they don't have to pay a thing in life, and I am not just talking about young people here.
As was said by a Lib, this is a privilege, not a right.
I fear Victoria will be another tourist hub, as is Tasmania.

Jobs have been stopped in Victoria.

I have already given examples in the past of what I have seen regarding the Labor/Greens in government. 
Nothing has changed from their perspective.

The Greens are disliked in the bush where the fires were, they asked many times for trees to be cut around those power lines and around homes.
The CFA were concerned also with Labor being elected again.

We align with journalists or people  we agree with, and though Bolt may be over the top for you, I also agree with others, Miranda Devine, Rowan Dean, the list goes on.
I also listen to people around me and what they see and think of the situation.

These are my views, we have four years of watching.


----------



## Ijustnewit (11 December 2014)

Tink , I feel for all Victorians. The Greens in Tasmania have made the place an economic basket place , all in the good of the environment. I can agree with some of their policy and issues logging ancient forests. But they take it even further , they don't want eco tourism either. There was an article on TV ( I forget what channel ) last week about entrepreneurs wanting to set up environmental eco shelters in some of our forest as a tourist venture. Well of course the loonie Greens won't allow it . One of those families wanting to set a venture for tourists to enjoy an eco tourist resort was Dick Smith and his siblings. The Greens run them out of the State and Tasmania lost the potential to draw more tourism dollars to the state. Others have been driven away as well , the loonie Greens don't want any human footprint on anything. It's extremism at it's worst , and it's killing the state. They also don't want expansion to fish farming either , and that's one of our biggest earners. They don't allow genetically modified crops either , another show ( I think it was Landline ) showed had this is driving another big earner the poppy industry off island as well.  Basically they want the whole place untouched and nothing happening. There was a glimmer of hope the new Liberal Government would overturn some of these loonie rules set up by generations of Green / Labor Governments. But the Greens are already gearing up for that fight and it won't be pretty.
Also I just can't get over that result in Prahan myself, how does someone on 24 per cent get elected in when others are clearly more favoured in the community ? No wonder we have the problems we do. Hopefully Victoria won't suffer to much in the next few years. It's a great state and I love visiting there.


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## explod (11 December 2014)

Intersting,  the last two posters are ageeing with each other yet  some statements are contradicting each other. 

Tasmania is the way we all need to go,  back to preserving nature.   Tourists leave a big footprint,  and many leave thier McDonald's rubbish everywhere. 

The great thing  of nature's  richness in the past was diversity,  GM crops have been shown to wipe this out.   A great book released awhile back was Back From the Brink by Peter Andrews where it was proved  that the best performing  race horses in the world. were those who grazed on virgin land with all natural weeds intact. 

The Greens philosophy  is much much more than the  right wing press try to label them.   Victoria now has the chance to be really on the move and  I am in the very lucky position  to be able to have some  input to our new members of Parliament


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## Calliope (11 December 2014)

explod said:


> Tasmania is the way we all need to go, back to preserving nature. Tourists leave a big footprint, and many leave thier McDonald's rubbish everywhere.
> 
> The great thing of nature's richness in the past was diversity, GM crops have been shown to wipe this out. A great book released awhile back was Back From the Brink by Peter Andrews where it was proved that the best performing race horses in the world. were those who grazed on virgin land with all natural weeds intact.
> 
> The Greens philosophy is much much more than the right wing press try to label them. Victoria now has the chance to be really on the move and I am in the very lucky position to be able to have some input to our new members of Parliament has the chance to be really on the move and  I am in the very lucky position  to be able to have some input to our new members of Parliament




I know they say that you get the Government you deserve, but having your hand on the wheel as a political adviser is really rubbing it in.You don't understand that turning Victoria down the Tasmanian track would bankrupt  Victoria

You are obviously opposed to tourism, and if you got your way, to feed racehorses on weeds, a Victorian horse would never win another Melbourne Cup


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## Knobby22 (11 December 2014)

The Greens would close down the Melbourne Cup.
I have three green voters in my office.
All vegetarians and acting morally superior all the time. Putting labels on our front door to respect aboriginals. Providing organic chips at our Friday drinks. 
Drives me nuts.


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## Ijustnewit (11 December 2014)

explod said:


> Intersting,  the last two posters are ageeing with each other yet  some statements are contradicting each other.
> 
> Tasmania is the way we all need to go,  back to preserving nature.   Tourists leave a big footprint,  and many leave thier McDonald's rubbish everywhere.
> 
> ...



I will agree about the McDonalds rubbish. But that's more about consumer education and also the mental state of those demographics that consume such garbage as food. If Tasmania is the " way we all need to go " how to you envisage a viable economy to support the population that is ? People need jobs and communities need money to make them work. Tasmania is an economic basket case , do the Greens want this for the rest of Australia as well ?
Basically where is the money going to come from ? What are we to do ? Modern society had developed to a point that we can't just walk away and live in a cave. Sorry for diverging from the original thread. Happy to continue the discussion on the Greens thread.


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## trainspotter (11 December 2014)

Knobby22 said:


> The Greens would close down the Melbourne Cup.
> I have three green voters in my office.
> All vegetarians and acting morally superior all the time. Putting labels on our front door to respect aboriginals. Providing organic chips at our Friday drinks.
> Drives me nuts.




Do they drive a Toyota Prius or do they catch the foot falcon?


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## Knobby22 (11 December 2014)

trainspotter said:


> Do they drive a Toyota Prius or do they catch the foot falcon?




They all catch public transport in so I wouldn't know.


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## trainspotter (11 December 2014)

Knobby22 said:


> They all catch public transport in so I wouldn't know.




Saving the planet with biodiesel bus transportation makes them feel all warm and fuzzy I spose.


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## Tisme (11 December 2014)

Tink said:


> Tisme, there are many reasons.
> We may have different views, but these are mine.
> 
> As I have already said, the unions have destroyed this state.
> ...




You what, I really appreciated that post because it was a considered opinion, rightly or wrongly and as we all know the only thing that is 100% faithful to you is your opinion.

I have trouble peeling back layers on many political parties to justify what they actually stand for. The Labor Party used to be for nation building and the working class. The Liberal party was the middle class beacon and there wasn't much of a need for a mercantile party because the UK owned and controlled that sector and perhaps that is the problem:- as the financial and investment markets have been released back to our own citizens, the two majors have spied it as an opportunity to expand their sphere of influence?

In marketing there is a well proven event where change (negative or positive) will cause a hysteresis of increased activity in line with the Pareto 80-20 rule and in some ways if a political party can manipulate that with a national fervour we can actually increase productivity by a factor of 1/0.8, the decay time can also be manipulated by introducing integral and derivative instances. We see the negative effect leading up to elections.

So I am rather sceptical at a govt's ability to wreck an economy when there is a dominating opposing force in the electorate. Unions blockading an Aldi site is rather minor and having had experience with the closed shop preferred contractor tendering regime Aldi has, it was eventually going to spill out anyway, if only because of the impotence of the various fair trading depts. around the country. I am also very much aware how the large retailers would be encouraged by industrial action waged by unions who have sympathetic tentacles all the way up the logistics ladder.

I rather admire Victoria for its can do people:- a little bit of industrial zeal in Qld would be a welcome change from merely being a  coal based spade and wheelbarrow economy.


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## explod (11 December 2014)

Ijustnewit said:


> I will agree about the McDonalds rubbish. But that's more about consumer education and also the mental state of those demographics that consume such garbage as food. If Tasmania is the " way we all need to go " how to you envisage a viable economy to support the population that is ? People need jobs and communities need money to make them work. Tasmania is an economic basket case , do the Greens want this for the rest of Australia as well ?
> Basically where is the money going to come from ? What are we to do ? Modern society had developed to a point that we can't just walk away and live in a cave. Sorry for diverging from the original thread. Happy to continue the discussion on the Greens thread.




The unfortunate fact is that we can no longer support a viable economy.   People are starving and perishing in cold conditions in the middle east.   Population growth must hit a wall.   Economic expansionism is being replaced by economic survival.   We can bury our heads in the sand but the world is changing rapidly and governments should have the vision and leadership to show the way.   These are just some of the issues troubling the Greens and on our agenda. 

Sure I drive a Hilux ute,  but the way its rigged I have to work with the situation now.   I use it to carry manure to my and others gardens and to visit family,  don't like it but stuck like everyone else.

It is time to wake up and start thinking outside the square.   But I know people will not take it in and continue down the slippery slope.   But I have to try for a clear conscience.


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## Tink (12 December 2014)

Thanks, Ijustnewit, I know Tasmanians have suffered with Greens/Labor, as I mentioned in an earlier post. 
I am hoping you can get your state back on track also.
From what I have seen, they seem to be making inroads, the Libs, good luck 

Tisme, thanks for your post and though you can't see it, I do, living here.
Labor wants to add more layers and bloat themselves up even more.

We now have strikes on the dock.
Seems to be an in thing with Labor and the unions around Christmas.

I would like to see the day the union thugs don't get paid for holding up business.


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## drsmith (4 March 2015)

The sad and sorry saga that East-West Link has become,

https://www.businessspectator.com.a...ink-lunacy-threatens-australias-credit-rating



> The Victorian tragedy gets worse: some 200 families were flown to Australia to prepare for the massive tunnelling required and have now been flown home. Victoria had a brilliant set of engineers able to organise such contracts. They have been sacked and snapped up by the rest of the world.
> 
> In the case of the tunnelling equipment, Victoria ordered the very best from German contractors. Two machines were ordered for around $70 million each. These were custom-built machines and almost certainly the bill on the two machines will be in the vicinity of the contracted $140m. There will also be substantial losses on the finances as the agreements are unwound. My guess is that the financing losses will get to $50m, but it's just a guess.
> 
> ...




http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/op...r-daniel-andrews/story-fni0fh8t-1227248328337



> Given how grim options one and two are for the Government, legislating might seem like the least worst option.
> 
> But it would be a disaster.
> 
> ...


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## Tink (5 March 2015)

I mentioned this in the useless labor party thread, drsmith, 
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2942&page=25&p=863120#post863120

where Daniel Andrews is trying to legislate contracts out, which will be damaging to not just Victoria, but to Australia as well. 
_
The consequences to Australia if the Victorian government does not honour in full all the overseas obligations involved in the East West Link contract are serious. Australia is one of seven countries where all three major rating agencies give a AAA credit rating. If one of our sovereign states fails to meet its international obligations that rating will be in jeopardy and that will result in an increase to Australia’s borrowing costs and ease of trading.

Former Victorian premiers John Brumby, Steve Bracks, Jeff Kennett, Joan Kirner, John Cain and Rupert Hamer would never have dreamt of abandoning a big international contract signed by their predecessor. 

They understood the rules of government._

Contracts take months, even years to negotiate.

Typical Labor with no care for consequences, and the taxpayer always has to foot the bill with nothing to show.

This guy is an incompetant fool, and reason NOT to vote for Labor.

All these costs should be placed on Labor and the Greens, as this east west link was talked about for years.


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## Ijustnewit (5 March 2015)

Tink said:


> I mentioned this in the useless labor party thread, drsmith,
> https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2942&page=25&p=863120#post863120
> 
> where Daniel Andrews is trying to legislate contracts out, which will be damaging to not just Victoria, but to Australia as well.
> ...



The term " Economic Vandals " has been used on these forums before. Labor and the Unions bring business to it's knees . The Greens have some great ideas in a fanatsy world , but in the *real *world who foots the bills ?


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## basilio (5 March 2015)

This contract with its  $1billion break cost is just BS.  In business terms it is called unconscionable conduct. Essentially you create a contract which is appears legally enforceable but is so unjust and onerous a court of law can end up setting it aside.

What the contract is effectively demanding is the entire estimated profits that were going to be accrued on the project - without actually doing a thing.  It is blackmail with the threat of destroying the States credit rating as the stick.

If you wanted another example of such unconscionable conduct think about the huge late fees the banks gouged from account holders. They blithely said these were extra costs when it was always clear the amount charged was  way, way over actual costs and  eventually became 25% of the banks annual profits.




> *East West Link: Is Victoria open for blackmail?*
> 
> he side deal between the consortium partners for Melbourne's now-abandoned East West Link project and former Liberal treasurer Michael O'Brien, for the payment of $1.1 billion compensation to East West Connect if Labor won the 2014 state election and, as promised, cancelled the agreement, was designed to achieve one of two ends.
> 
> ...



http://www.canberratimes.com.au/com...toria-open-for-blackmail-20150222-13k8pw.html


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## Smurf1976 (5 March 2015)

Ijustnewit said:


> Tink , I feel for all Victorians. The Greens in Tasmania have made the place an economic basket place




The Greens have had a few good points in Tas. Forestry isn't a viable "industry" and likely never will be again, for the simple reason that it loses money. The more trees they cut, the bigger the taxpayer handout to fund the operation. That's not a viable business model.

That said, forestry and the now defunct fine paper industry would have looked very different today had we gone ahead with a new pulp mill at Wesley Vale back in 1989. Value adding to wood and a new pulp supply, to replace the then aging (now closed) pulping operations at Burnie and supply pulp to the paper machines at both Burnie and Wesley Vale. It would have ended the horrendous pollution from the Burnie operation years earlier than it actually stopped whilst securing the future of the paper industry. 

But that mill was stopped and we've since been through a cycle of exporting the wood overseas (no longer even close to being profitable) and closure of the existing pulp and then paper mill at Burnie and the one at Wesely Vale too. Yes, you read that correctly, the "pristine" area at Wesley Vale already had a pulp and paper mill there when the new mill was proposed. What All we've got now is a levelled site at Wesley Vale and at Burnie there's a national chain hardware store on part of the site where "the Pulp" once stood. So far as industry is concerned, it's gone forever along with thousands of jobs in a region of the state that has been economically depressed ever since the big factory closures began.

If they had their way, have no doubt that every other large factory in the state would go the same way. The zinc works, Bell Bay Aluminium, TEMCO, Norske Skog (Boyer) and so on. All gone. The zinc works alone accounts for one sixth of the state's overseas exports and the others are highly significant too.

But the Greens do have some valid points. There's a definite future in tourism, fine food, arts etc if we get it right. But I'd argue that David Walsh has done more for tourism and the arts, at his own expense too, than all politicians combined over the past 30 years. He just got on and did something, and chose a location (suburban Hobart, and a "working class" suburb at that) which avoided dealing with anyone difficult.

What the Greens fail to comprehend is that if you're going to have tourism, then that means you're going to have tourists and you need facilities to accommodate, transport and feed them. And if you're going to base the entire economy on it, then you're going to have an awful lot of tourists not just a bus load or two. And if you're going to take all those tourists to the wilderness? Well at that point it ceases to actually be a wilderness - there's a definite limit on the extent to which you can have tourism in such a place without destroying the very thing they came to see. And that limit means, of course, that the state needs industries other than eco-tourism. Which reminds me of those mines, farms and factories....


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## banco (5 March 2015)

basilio said:


> This contract with its  $1billion break cost is just BS.  In business terms it is called unconscionable conduct. Essentially you create a contract which is appears legally enforceable but is so unjust and onerous a court of law can end up setting it aside.




From what I dimly remember from law school they aren't going to have much luck proving unconscionable conduct when they are the Government. No doubt the company's response will be that the Government has basically unlimited resources to buy advice before entering into a contract so they walked in with their eyes open.


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## orr (5 March 2015)

Smurf1976 said:


> The Greens have had a few good points in Tas. Forestry isn't a viable
> 
> 
> 
> But the Greens do have some valid points. There's a definite future in tourism, fine food, arts etc ....




'
I'll work on the 'etc'

'Etreeemme' sports. there's the money ... how long before we get the Greeens on board  for a bit of whale hunting the olde fashioned way, a couple of celery top and huon pine hand built whale long boats a thousand yards hemp and sisal cordage, harpoon 'n' lance  ... Red Bull, Mother and that other thing in the green can' all paying a $100k+ to a good cause  to  have their bronzed and tone warriors in their clouded caffinated comfort zone, squatted to 'Davy jones's' by a southern right .... el toro. or el willy or whatever


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## Tink (6 March 2015)

I would rather he built this much needed road, bas, rather than being hijacked by the Greens.

He lied, and voters were fooled, that a contract is not valid, placing our state in jeopardy.

Now rather than pay money for nothing, build it, and admit you were wrong.

This state is gaining more people, not less.

If it doesn't get built now, it will come up again in the future.


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## Tink (7 March 2015)

There wasn't much difference between Liberal and Labor in the end result, at the Vic election, so I am pretty disappointed that Daniel Andrews is working just for the public sector and the unions.

A majority of people wanted this east west link, which was jobs for over 7,000 people, plus we needed it.

Any other Victorians in this forum and what do they think of this all?
Should he be paying this $1.1 billion with nothing to show, or build it?
I would be interested to hear what others think, we have heard from a few.

Daniel Andrews should have known the Rules of Government.
Many works that Labor set up were disastrous, and we are still paying for them, desal plant, myki, the pipeline.
Too bad they couldn't be stopped.

Never give Labor a job to do because they always stuff them up as we are seeing now, blowing the budget and the time to do it, costing the taxpayer double.


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## explod (7 March 2015)

The east west link was not well concieved and I have no doubt was the main reason why the Liberals lost the election. 

When first proposed the cost was put at 10 billion but as opposition grew it was revised down to 8 billion.   The past has shown that these sort of projects blow out and this one would certainly have gone to 12 to 14 billion.   Andthe people remember these exorbitant blow outs. Even at 8 billion the drag on the  public purse would have limited other  projects for about eight years with full federal support. 

A freeway project privides jobs but they are temporary so to my mind this is but a tepid advantage. 

Its bigger hurdle was where it was going.   Sure it would have made the ride into the city for some much quicker.   However the great mojority of traffic was to feed into the already clogged  Tullamarine and Westgate freeways.  The Monash Freeway completed just 14 years ago is now a nightmare.   It also feeds onto the Westgate and Tullamarine freeways.   East west link would only further add to this nightmare. 

Just a quick look at the Melbourne map will show the potential for a very good outer ring road by connecting the Metropolitan ring road to eastlink.   This would take a huge amount of heavy and through traffic right away from the city altogether.   The cost of this connector would also be great but the benefits enourmous. 

Having been part of a future planning team for Victoria at one time I could discuss solutions till the cows come home.   But governments today are only interested in outside multinational lobbyists for advice.  And of course the profits also go offshore. 

So in failing to listen to the plea's and ideas of the general public,  the libs only have themselves to blame. 

The election is now well over and this discussion therefore off topic. 

Perhaps we should have a thread on transport solutions or similar.


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## Tink (7 March 2015)

Thanks for your reply, explod, and yes, I know you don't agree with the freeway, but it wasn't just about the freeway, as such.

I agree the Vic election is over, but just looking at Labor and Liberals -- it was something like 37 to 38.
That isn't a big number, and if you are running on just that, and it was to do with the east west link, then that is not a big - NO.

Secondly,  this isn't just about the east west link, this is about putting our country and state at risk, and ripping up a contract.
As I said, these can take years to set up.

So you think what he has done is the right thing, be it east west link, myki, and any of those other grand plans that govts have created beforehand, you think that now govts should be allowed to rip up contracts?

I would have been quite happy to see a couple of those Labor plans tossed in the bin, but they weren't, and govts worked together for the betterment of our nation.

What I am saying is this is not a good thing for any government to be doing, be it if they agreed or disagreed with what the previous government did.

That is just my opinion.


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## explod (8 March 2015)

Tink said:


> Thanks for your reply, explod, and yes, I know you don't agree with the freeway, but it wasn't just about the freeway, as such.
> 
> I agree the Vic election is over, but just looking at Labor and Liberals -- it was something like 37 to 38.
> That isn't a big number, and if you are running on just that, and it was to do with the east west link, then that is not a big - NO.
> ...




The slide to the ALP was massive.   They won 47 seats,  the libs 30, Country Party 8 and the Greens (for the first time represented) with 2.

The contracting process conducted by the Liberals was done under total wraps and in my view this was underhand and sneaky.   There was a lot of community concern at this lack of transperency and the voters let them know clearly and accordingly.


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## drsmith (8 March 2015)

explod said:


> The slide to the ALP was massive.   They won 47 seats,  the libs 30, Country Party 8 and the Greens (for the first time represented) with 2.
> 
> The contracting process conducted by the Liberals was done under total wraps and in my view this was underhand and sneaky.   There was a lot of community concern at this lack of transperency and the voters let them know clearly and accordingly.



The cost of transport infrastructure construction exploded during the first decade of this century due to competition with the resources construction boom. 

These costs have since eased in response to the recent decline in resources construction. In Western Australia for example, a number of recent transport projects have either been expanded or completed under budget due to the cost savings.


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## Tink (9 March 2015)

If anyone's interested -- Build the Link.

http://buildthelink.com.au/#anchor2


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## explod (9 March 2015)

Tink said:


> If anyone's interested -- Build the Link.
> 
> http://buildthelink.com.au/#anchor2




As i have pointed out this project will only further choke existing through road's. 

If it continued through Footscray and opened up an extra crossing of the Maribyrnong River to relieve the overburdened Westgate and Monash Freeways then it could have some merit. 

Unfortunately politician's of both major parties no longer think beyond thier own self interest.   And big business behind such things as freeways,  feed on it. 

And because of the dodgy closed shop manner of the contracts settled by the former Liberal Government the cancellation of the project will cost us no where near three billion. 

And the way the economy is starting to go under the Libs in Canberra we will no longer be able to afford 8 billion anyway. 

As was said in The Castle,  "tell him he's dreaming"


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## Smurf1976 (9 March 2015)

explod said:


> And big business behind such things as freeways,  feed on it.




The real question is why have we allowed critical public infrastructure, and it's hard to think of something more fundamental than roads, to be in the hands of big business in the first place?

What's wrong with the idea of state governments borrowing money to build such things, then repaying the loans over the next 30 or so years?


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## Knobby22 (10 March 2015)

Smurf1976 said:


> The real question is why have we allowed critical public infrastructure, and it's hard to think of something more fundamental than roads, to be in the hands of big business in the first place?
> 
> What's wrong with the idea of state governments borrowing money to build such things, then repaying the loans over the next 30 or so years?




Especially as they can borrow long term at never to be offered again interest rates.


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## Tink (10 March 2015)

Well summed up by Michael O'Brien.

_"A responsible government – a government that actually values our state's reputation and good name – doesn't rip up contracts." 
These words describe an obvious proposition, one long observed by both sides of Victorian politics. Until now.

There are good reasons that governments are bound by the contracts of their predecessors. The Bracks and Brumby governments signed contracts that cost, and continue to cost, Victoria dearly. Labor's white-elephant desalination plant, dysfunctional myki ticketing system and botched pokies licence auction were all opposed by the Coalition in opposition. Despite this, the Coalition did not rip these contracts up on taking office in 2010. Why not? Because oppositions do not determine contracts, governments do.

A contract with the state does not dissolve on a change of government, no matter how inconvenient it may be for an incoming government. Federal Labor's treasury spokesman, Chris Bowen, told the National Press Club last September, "Labor honours contracts entered into by previous governments. Even if we don't like them, for reasons of sovereign risk, Labor honours contracts in office signed by previous governments." Sadly for Victoria, Daniel Andrews didn't get the memo.

The East West Link was enthusiastically endorsed by the Brumby government, after a needs assessment by Sir Rod Eddington. Supporters of the project included Bill Shorten, Julia Gillard and Victoria's trade unions. In the May 2013 budget – more than 18 months before the state election – the Coalition government announced that the project would proceed. A competitive tender ensued, involving domestic and international firms, over more than a year of consultation, preparation and planning.

Standing by a contract is essential for any responsible party, not least the State of Victoria. The rule of law applies to everyone, including governments.

And the quote at the start of this article about the importance of honouring contracts? It was Labor leader Daniel Andrews on ABC radio on August 13 last year – before he decided that Victoria's reputation and good name didn't matter._

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/vi...-east-west-link-contract-20150301-13rtip.html


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## Tink (12 March 2015)

And it continues.....

Tony Abbott warns Daniel Andrews about putting Australia at risk.

Premier Daniel Andrews hasn’t ruled out introducing laws to avoid paying compensation.

_Global investors are being warned about doing business in Victoria amid speculation that the State Government could legislate its way out of the East West Link contract.

An article published on Friday in global business magazine Infrastructure Investor warns readers that retrospective laws being considered by the Andrews Government would “send shivers down the spines of infrastructure investors” around the world.

The article, “Can Australia be taken at its word?”, says the nation could lose its crown as the “world’s most attractive infrastructure destination”.
Premier Daniel Andrews hasn’t ruled out introducing legislation to avoid paying compensation, despite criticism that such a move would damage the state’s reputation.

The magazine compares Victoria to Spain, which once led the global solar power market but was effectively black-listed in 2008 after it changed agreed feed-in tariff subsidies.

Spain has “seven years later, just started to win back the confidence of the international investment community”, the article says. “But that’s a long time to be effectively removed from the list of sensible investment locations.”

Federal Assistant Minister for Infrastructure Jamie Briggs said a state had never failed to honour a contract to build major transport infrastructure.

“Major infrastructure companies and investors across the globe are rightly concerned by the Victorian Labor Government’s reckless actions, which are damaging Australia’s reputation as a trusted place t do business,” Mr Briggs said._


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## SirRumpole (12 March 2015)

> “Major infrastructure companies and investors across the globe are rightly concerned by the Victorian Labor Government’s reckless actions, which are damaging Australia’s reputation as a trusted place to do business,” Mr Briggs said.




This is just rubbish.

Contractors knew that the Labor Party were not going to proceed with the project if they came to power, yet they signed the contracts anyway. They took the risk and the taxpayers should not have to pay up because the Mates in the Liberal Party threw public dollars in their direction.

The contractors should have waited untill after the election before signing.

Did anyone in the Liberal party benefit from these contracts ? Board positions perhaps ? Financial contributions ?


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## Ijustnewit (12 March 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> This is just rubbish.
> 
> Contractors knew that the Labor Party were not going to proceed with the project if they came to power, yet they signed the contracts anyway. They took the risk and the taxpayers should not have to pay up because the Mates in the Liberal Party threw public dollars in their direction.
> 
> ...




So you think major businesses and contractors should have waited for and election ? You also think that these major businesses and contractors should legally not have a leg to stand on when they signed up because the Liberals where in power and Labor might win an election ? Imagine if we all sat around waiting for the next election result waiting and wondering wether to proceed with major projects. 
Now that's what I call " just rubbish".
As others have pointed out " A contract does not dissolve on a change of Government ".


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## SirRumpole (12 March 2015)

Ijustnewit said:


> So you think major businesses and contractors should have waited for and election ?




Yes, or be prepared to bear the risk of having the contracts cancelled. They tried to get in before the government changed and got burnt. That's their problem.

As they haven't delivered anything (apart from a bid), the taxpayers don't owe them anything.


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## noco (12 March 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> This is just rubbish.
> 
> Contractors knew that the Labor Party were not going to proceed with the project if they came to power, yet they signed the contracts anyway. They took the risk and the taxpayers should not have to pay up because the Mates in the Liberal Party threw public dollars in their direction.
> 
> ...




So the planning started 2 months before the election......What rubbish.....The feasibility study, the surveys and the planning would have started at least 2 years ago.

Even Juliar Gillard and Bill Shorten agreed upon the project.....Our comrade Billy is very quiet about it all.

Andrews should swallow his pride and get on with the project as planned and withhold Australia's reputation...The Victorian people want it and so do many Labor MP's.


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## SirRumpole (12 March 2015)

noco said:


> ..The Victorian people want it and so do many Labor MP's.




The Victorian people voted *against* it remember ?


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## noco (12 March 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> The Victorian people voted *against* it remember ?




But Gillard and Shorten thought it was a good idea.....The Victorian people  voted against it because they believed the BS Andrews threw at them.....But still and all it does not distract from the fact that the contract was signed and it is protocol for incoming governments to honor those commitments made by the previous government.


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## explod (12 March 2015)

noco said:


> But Gillard and Shorten thought it was a good idea.....The Victorian people  voted against it because they believed the BS Andrews threw at them.....But still and all it does not distract from the fact that the contract was signed and it is protocol for incoming governments to honor those commitments made by the previous government.




Did you bother to look at a road map of Melbourne and to look at what was proposed and see what a shemozzle the whole project would be. 

The past supporters,  left right,  labour libs were wrong and the same people are not in power today.   Move on. 

Contracts,  who cares for reputations to the big side who probably contribute little if any revenue back to our community in Australia anyway. 

It is time to rip up the past and move to the desires and needs of the community now,  today with substance and content. 

Did you notice the huge potential in linking the outer "western ring road"  with "east link"  the improvement in relieving inner metro traffic is a no brainer.


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## noco (12 March 2015)

explod said:


> Did you bother to look at a road map of Melbourne and to look at what was proposed and see what a shemozzle the whole project would be.
> 
> The past supporters,  left right,  labour libs were wrong and the same people are not in power today.   Move on.
> 
> ...




Actually I really could not care less what happens in Victoria......They can stew in their own juice ...I live in Gods country with GG.

There was this American guy who went around the world doing research and commentary on old phones and churches.
He found this old church in Florida with a golden phone and a sign above "All calls to heaven $10,000, speak to God direct".
He went to good old England and found another old church with a golden phone on the wall with the sign," All calls to heaven 5000 pounds, speak to God direct".
He came to Townsville and found this old church with a sign about the golden phone, all calls to heaven 50 cents, speak to God direct".
The American guy said the priest, "I have been all around the world and I have come across these golden phones, $10,000 Florida, 5000 pounds in England, why is it only 50 cents in Townsville?.....The priest told the American, it is a local call because you are already in heaven.
Ah yeah, you gotta have a laugh explod, it makes the world go around.


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## sptrawler (13 March 2015)

explod said:


> As i have pointed out this project will only further choke existing through road's.
> 
> If it continued through Footscray and opened up an extra crossing of the Maribyrnong River to relieve the overburdened Westgate and Monash Freeways then it could have some merit.
> 
> ...




I know nothing about the tunnel or the roads, but your second sentence sounded as though there was merit, if the process was continued.

It seems to me that most major cities world wide have to either go overhead or underground as congestion becomes more and more of a problem.
To just bury your head in the ground and say we will manage is dumb.

We have a similar problem in Perth, the chosen path for the Perth - Mandurah rail line was through the outer suburbs. The incoming goverment overturned it and went down the freeway.

Now the freeway is choked and it is obvious the rail line will have to be buried or raised, it will cost billions and cause massive traffic problems.

However at the time everyone was overjoyed, in the fact the rail line was not going through outer suburbs, as it would be more scenic and save 12 minutes.

It will cost W.A a lot of money to overcome that political decision.IMO


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## Tink (13 March 2015)

Ijustnewit, you are spot on, and as you know, you have seen what a Labor/Greens Govt does to a state.
Economic vandals, exactly.
Nothing will get done in Victoria, money is gone.

I wondered too, noco, why Bill Shorten is so quiet.

In four months, Daniel Andrews has already bled this state in Court cases, from the pokies that he created, to now the East West Link, that he created, back flipping from his original thought, to siding with the Greens for power.

He has lied that the contracts weren't valid, and that taxpayers would not be paying.
He is trying to legislate himself out of it which only puts our state in jeopardy.

Daniel Andrews is now in a bind in his own making, and whichever way he turns, Victoria loses.

Rumpole, this was ongoing for the last few years, from the Brumby Govt that back flipped on public transport in 2008.
If you read the Age article, that pretty much sums it up.
http://www.theage.com.au/comment/vi...-east-west-link-contract-20150301-13rtip.html

Of course you don't care about business, explod, we saw what the Greens did to Tasmania.

As I said at the start, we need both road and rail.
Melbourne's population is soaring and yet again, we end up with no infrastructure.

Daniel Andrews has just wasted all this taxpayer money, with nothing to show, for a road that we needed.


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## moXJO (13 March 2015)

Victoria is a well known state to avoid for construction while under labor unless you are union friendly.


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## drsmith (13 March 2015)

sptrawler said:


> I know nothing about the tunnel or the roads, but your second sentence sounded as though there was merit, if the process was continued.
> 
> It seems to me that most major cities world wide have to either go overhead or underground as congestion becomes more and more of a problem.
> To just bury your head in the ground and say we will manage is dumb.
> ...



Should it become necessary an additional road corridor would be built, most likely as a tunnel. This would obviously still be very expensive and I'd suggest would require a component of private funding. In other words, a toll road.

In the meantime, there are solutions to increase capacity within the Kwinana corridor. An incremental improvement may be achieved with ramp metering. An additional traffic lane can also be added in each direction essentially by using the space reserved for stopping lane and conversion into a managed motorway (much as has been done with the tunnel and planned for Leach south of Tonkin at ultimate design). This though I imagine would result in a reduced speed limit of 80 km/h along any actively managed section. Significant upgrades to the arterial road network through the eastern suburbs (Gateway WA and Northlink WA) will also provide an alternative north/south route and hence the potential for further incremental relief on the Mitchell/Kwinana corridor.

A question with the rail route is how many patrons are taking the train instead of driving because of that 12-minute saving and more direct access to the heart of the CBD via the stations under William street ? 

A second longer term question is that of capacity on the Armadale line if it had been used as part of the Mandurah route and indeed the main Perth station itself when one considers the upcoming expansion of the urban rail network to the Airport/Forrestfield and in the longer term to Ellenbrook.

The big transport sin of Labor's time in office in WA in my view was their attitude to Roe8 and the FEB. The trench being planned adjacent to High Street as part of Perth Freight Link could have just as easily used the FEB corridor.


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## sptrawler (13 March 2015)

drsmith said:


> Should it become necessary an additional road corridor would be built, most likely as a tunnel. This would obviously still be very expensive and I'd suggest would require a component of private funding. In other words, a toll road.
> 
> In the meantime, there are solutions to increase capacity within the Kwinana corridor. An incremental improvement may be achieved with ramp metering. An additional traffic lane can also be added in each direction essentially by using the space reserved for stopping lane and conversion into a managed motorway (much as has been done with the tunnel and planned for Leach south of Tonkin at ultimate design). This though I imagine would result in a reduced speed limit of 80 km/h along any actively managed section. Significant upgrades to the arterial road network through the eastern suburbs (Gateway WA and Northlink WA) will also provide an alternative north/south route and hence the potential for further incremental relief on the Mitchell/Kwinana corridor.
> 
> ...




The Roe highway/ Kwinana freeway  intersection is a nightmare.
Also when the decision was made to use the freeway for the train, it should have involved possible trench tunneling to facilitate it.
As for widening the freeway I would have thought it is just about at its limit through Bullcreek, Murdoch, due to overpass size constraints


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## drsmith (13 March 2015)

sptrawler said:


> The Roe highway/ Kwinana freeway  intersection is a nightmare.
> Also when the decision was made to use the freeway for the train, it should have involved possible trench tunneling to facilitate it.
> As for widening the freeway I would have thought it is just about at its limit through Bullcreek, Murdoch, due to overpass size constraints



You can widen that section of the freeway as much as you could widen the GFF tunnel (none), but like the GFF tunnel, the emergency stopping lane can be used as an additional traffic lane under the managed motorway scenario above.

The present traffic problems with the existing Roe highway/Kwinana freeway intersection relate to capacity constraints to the south. That's being addressed southbound with the Kwinana carriageway widening under way. Northbound will also have to be done at some point.

The current Roe highway/Kwinana freeway intersection is certainly a nightmare is in terms of design options to extend Roe Highway further west. You can see from the following link the number of bridges that have to be built for Roe8 and utilise the existing bridge. That's the northermost of the 3 bridges shown going over the Kwinana Freeway.

http://www.southmetroconnect.com.au/wp-content/uploads/60100953-215J-CI-DRG-0027-RevB.pdf


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## explod (13 March 2015)

The discussion/current focus on roadways has a great deal of merit. 

Not time myself at the moment but a specific thread should be fired up.   The posts of the last few weeks could all be lifted to start it off. 

Because in regard to the election in Victoria last year we are way off topic in my view. 

Anyone,  or Joe perhaps?


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## sptrawler (13 March 2015)

drsmith said:


> You can widen that section of the freeway as much as you could widen the GFF tunnel (none), but like the GFF tunnel, the emergency stopping lane can be used as an additional traffic lane under the managed motorway scenario above.
> 
> The present traffic problems with the existing Roe highway/Kwinana freeway intersection relate to capacity constraints to the south. That's being addressed southbound with the Kwinana carriageway widening under way. Northbound will also have to be done at some point.
> 
> ...





I agree with you doc, but I think the emergency stopping lanes are what is being removed at the moment.
It will only be a matter of a couple of years and the situation will be back to where we are now.
The rail line takes about six lanes of capacity away, it is only a matter of time before it has to be utilised.

As for the Armadale line, trains run every 15 minutes, this can be increased, also the rail easement has enough space for a dedicated line.

I know the Mandurah line on the foreshore is a lovely trip and experience, however in demographic terms it would have been better servicing Welshpool and Canning Vale.

Mandurah has high unemployment and Welshpool, Canning Vale are industrial areas, therefore require workers.

My personal belief is, the rail link through Canning Vale will be put into service, and the Perth - Cockburn line will have to be sunk or raised.
It was nothing more than a political vote catching scam, that will cost heaps to rectify and cause a huge headache for everyone South of the river.

No doubt the east west tunnel, would circumvent traffic issues that will no doubt manifest themselves, as the population increases in Melbourne.

Labor tend to go for sugar fix, instant hit politics, that end up costing everyone heaps later.
But it does sort out peoples pensions.IMO


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## drsmith (13 March 2015)

sptrawler said:


> I agree with you doc, but I think the emergency stopping lanes are what is being removed at the moment.
> It will only be a matter of a couple of years and the situation will be back to where we are now.
> The rail line takes about six lanes of capacity away, it is only a matter of time before it has to be utilised.



Check it out when it's finished.


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## sptrawler (13 March 2015)

drsmith said:


> Check it out when it's finished.




I use it all the time, I will let you know.


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## Tink (15 March 2015)

moXJO said:


> Victoria is a well known state to avoid for construction while under labor unless you are union friendly.




+ 1.

We now have the Premier saying he wants to increase debt - hence line the unions pockets.
Debt is not a dirty word, he tells us, there goes our triple A rating.


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## noco (15 March 2015)

Tink said:


> + 1.
> 
> We now have the Premier saying he wants to increase debt - hence line the unions pockets.
> Debt is not a dirty word, he tells us, there goes our triple A rating.




It looks like Victorians are starting to rebel against the Andrews government going by the recent bi-election.

Andrews will be Tony Abbott's best asset in 2016.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...ents/by_election_whack_to_andrews_government/


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## Smurf1976 (15 March 2015)

Tink said:


> + 1.
> 
> We now have the Premier saying he wants to increase debt




Debt isn't necessarily bad if it's used to acquire or build assets. It's a different story if it's used to fund ongoing consumption, that's when it leads to serious trouble.

There needs to be a much broader debate in Australia about debt, particularly where state governments are concerned. The approach of the past 20 years has essentially been to say that the mortgage was a problem, so we sold the house in order to repay it. Trouble is, we got rid of the assets as well as the debt, in many cases making the net position worse rather than better over the longer term. 

So far as something like building a road is concerned, there's a question. What is the total cost over the life of the road if it's done by some arrangement involving private ownership? And what is the cost if it's owned by the state and financed by debt?


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## explod (15 March 2015)

noco said:


> It looks like Victorians are starting to rebel against the Andrews government going by the recent bi-election.
> 
> Andrews will be Tony Abbott's best asset in 2016.
> 
> http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...ents/by_election_whack_to_andrews_government/




What a load of rubbish.   Labour did not even have a candidate.   Both parties do this at times when it is a retiring member in a safe seat. 

And as for debt,  the liberals need to get it into thier heads,  that to make a dollar you have to spend a dollar. 

Debt is healthy with turnover and participation.   The offshore multinationals need to he taxed at the same  levels as everyone else.   This is participation.


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## Tink (15 March 2015)

Smurf, the reason he has brought up about borrowing is because the money is gone, and he wants to sell the Port of Melbourne to fund the projects.
He doesn't think that will come through.
No sell, no projects.

What he wants to do is build and sell to the private companies.
That is the only reason he has brought this up.

I understand what you are saying, Smurf, and that is a whole different topic.

As you know, I am not very happy that he has backed down on the road project.


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## Smurf1976 (15 March 2015)

Tink said:


> Smurf, the reason he has brought up about borrowing is because the money is gone, and he wants to sell the Port of Melbourne to fund the projects.




Now I get it!

There's a bit of a fuss here in Tas since it seems that shipping charges via the Port of Melbourne are about to go through the roof. It's a big enough problem that would pretty much wreck the Tas economy, since many of the state's exporting industries wouldn't be viable at such a huge cost for shipping. Most shipping in and out of Tas presently goes via Melbourne to either interstate or overseas markets.

The workaround is looking at either direct international shipping, or shipping via Sydney or even Brisbane. It's further away obviously, but if the Vic Govt is going to hold another state to ransom then there's not much choice but to look at the alternatives. I've also heard mention of shipping via Adelaide and even NZ as possible solutions.

The real problem with privatisation is that governments inevitably blow the money. Where in 2015 is the money from selling the Gas and Fuel Corporation, the State Electricity Commission and all the other things that were sold off in Victoria during the 1990's? The money inevitably disappears over time and the debt is run up again, that's how governments work. Personally, I'd rather have a debt backed by an asset of ongoing value, be it gas pipes, railways or whatever, than to have a debt backed by nothing but future taxation revenue.


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## noco (15 March 2015)

explod said:


> What a load of rubbish.   Labour did not even have a candidate.   Both parties do this at times when it is a retiring member in a safe seat.
> 
> And as for debt,  the liberals need to get it into thier heads,  that to make a dollar you have to spend a dollar.
> 
> Debt is healthy with turnover and participation.   The offshore multinationals need to he taxed at the same  levels as everyone else.   This is participation.




It looks like Labor ran scared and could not stand the heat.


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## explod (15 March 2015)

noco said:


> It looks like Labor ran scared and could not stand the heat.




You miss the point,  it has been a normal protocol to stand aside. 

The Libs broke that by putting up a candidate.


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## Tink (16 March 2015)

Yes, that is the one, Smurf, since he has no funding for his projects, he now needs to sell off the Port of Melbourne, but has increased the rent to 800%, killing business and jobs.

http://tandlnews.com.au/2015/03/11/article/port-melbourne-fattening-pig-sale/
_
The Port of Melbourne and the Government of Victoria have been accused of trying the ‘fatten the pig’ for sale by increasing stevedores’ rates by almost 800%, making the Port of Melbourne the single most expensive container port in the world._

I think I have given my thoughts on the public sector, and if anything, I would rather public-private, if we had to.
I agree with you, it is the way it is run, be it private or public, but the unions get ridiculous with this bottomless pit of taxpayer funds.
I remember when we had telecom, one and only, I was thrilled when we got competition.


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## Smurf1976 (17 March 2015)

So far as things like ports are concerned, they are absolutely critical infrastructure with relatively little competition. Regardless of who owns it, there needs to be some regulation to ensure that the rest of the state isn't wrecked economically as a result of either inefficiency or blatant over charging.


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## Tink (18 March 2015)

I agree, Smurf.

*Tasmanian Minister to take Victorian Government to task over Port of Melbourne rent hike*

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-...-counterpart-to-task-over-port-of-mel/6327500


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## Tisme (18 March 2015)

sptrawler said:


> I agree with you doc, but I think the emergency stopping lanes are what is being removed at the moment.
> It will only be a matter of a couple of years and the situation will be back to where we are now.
> The rail line takes about six lanes of capacity away, it is only a matter of time before it has to be utilised.
> 
> ...




I'm in Perth fairy often and traffic flow there is a dream compared to Melb, Syd and Bris. I must admit for a clean sandy soil place it seems to take an extraordinary time to build over passes (e.g. the one on Alexander Drive and Reid) and the Great Eastern Hwy widening near the airport appeared to be tasked twice?


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## explod (10 April 2015)

A truck caught fire on the Westgate Bridge this morning and freeway outbound totally blocked more than two hours.  Two lanes inbound with similar mayhem due to peakhour. 

With the extra traffic from a completed East West Link the situation would be much worse.  Currently trucks from the east heading north,  to Hume Hwy.,  etc.,  veer off via Heidelberg,  but with the East West would go via Tullamarine and cause huge mayhem. 

If the outer ring road was to be connected to Eastlink,  as I have explained here in a post a few months back,  the truck this morning would have taken the outer link for a swift run away from the peak. 

We need to start a movement to have the Government look at this idea and the movement of the heavy stuff by rail also.


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## drsmith (10 April 2015)

Tisme said:


> I'm in Perth fairy often and traffic flow there is a dream compared to Melb, Syd and Bris. I must admit for a clean sandy soil place it seems to take an extraordinary time to build over passes (e.g. the one on Alexander Drive and Reid) and the Great Eastern Hwy widening near the airport appeared to be tasked twice?



What do you mean by tasked twice ?


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## explod (20 August 2015)

A good job the libs were kicked out in Victoria last year

Millions stolen  by one of their own whilst in power.  Will be in the papers tomorrow.


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## sptrawler (20 August 2015)

drsmith said:


> Check it out when it's finished.




Well the Roe hwy/ freeway access upgrade is finished. Pure magic doc.

Two lanes added to the Bibra Lake train overpass, problem solved.


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## Tisme (21 August 2015)

noco said:


> It looks like Victorians are starting to rebel against the Andrews government going by the recent bi-election.
> 
> Andrews will be Tony Abbott's best asset in 2016.
> 
> http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...ents/by_election_whack_to_andrews_government/





I'm not sure Labor voters would vote for the Greens (without an ALP how to vote card) as suggested by Bolt; I'd like to see some foundation facts for that assumption.


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## Tink (11 September 2015)

This is the rubbish you put up with when you have a Labor/Greens State Govt that rorted their way in.
Take note, watching our state go down the drain.

*Pressure on to fix Melbourne’s transport mess as AFL Grand Final, spring carnival threatened   *

_Transport chaos could plague Melburnians on Grand Final day and during the spring carnival, unions have threatened.
Trams were off the tracks for more than four hours on Thursday.
It was the sixth such stoppage of trams or trains in the past fortnight over a bitter pay dispute.
And 2000 angry taxi drivers added to the disarray by stampeding through the city, blocking major streets with their cabs as they demanded that the UberX driving service be outlawed.
The Rail Tram and Bus Union has threatened industrial action during the Grand Final and Spring Racing Carnival, and it could further strand passengers with 24-and 48-hour strikes. _ 

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...nival-threatened/story-fni0fit3-1227521868379


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## sptrawler (18 May 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> This is just rubbish.
> 
> Contractors knew that the Labor Party were not going to proceed with the project if they came to power, yet they signed the contracts anyway. They took the risk and the taxpayers should not have to pay up because the Mates in the Liberal Party threw public dollars in their direction.
> 
> ...




Maybe it was, that no one thought the Labor Party were going to be such absolute F wits, I thought they would be.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/subscri...3efc4c5efada8dcff1de867e327&memtype=anonymous

Wow, who would have thought.


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## Tisme (18 May 2016)

sptrawler said:


> Maybe it was, that no one thought the Labor Party were going to be such absolute F wits, I thought they would be.
> 
> http://www.heraldsun.com.au/subscri...3efc4c5efada8dcff1de867e327&memtype=anonymous
> 
> Wow, who would have thought.




I can't read that except this:




> East West decision haunts Premier
> PREMIER Daniel Andrews’s decision to waste $1.1 billion killing off the East West Link has returned to haunt him, with his hand-picked infrastructure advisers listing it as a key project. In a sensational report to be released tomorrow,




How true is that, given it's Newscorp.......... waste $1.1bn true/false? ........hand picked advisers true/false? ......... is it an election stunt true/false?


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## Tink (18 May 2016)

Yes, sptrawler, it was all about politics, and the fear of losing their seats to the Greens, that they backed down on the project.

Julia Gillard and Bill Shorten were both FOR the project, until Daniel Andrews backed down just before the election.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/f...=30244&page=42&p=902530&viewfull=1#post902530

----------------------------

*East West Link decision returns to haunt Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews*

_PREMIER Daniel Andrews’s decision to waste $1.1 billion killing off the East West Link has returned to haunt him, with his hand-picked infrastructure advisers listing it as a key project.

In a sensational report to be released Thursday, Infrastructure Victoria lists the East West stages one and two as *important to “meet Victoria’s infrastructure needs’’.

Mr Andrews controversially dumped East West, despite contracts having been signed with the previous Napthine government.

Stage one of the $17 billion project would have provided a new tunnel connecting the Eastern Freeway to CityLink, with stage two connecting CityLink and the Western Ring Rd.

The new report backing East West will be highly embarrassing for Mr Andrews, who set up Infrastructure Victoria last year to provide independent advice on the state’s building needs.

It will also provide a boost to federal Liberal MPs in the eastern suburbs who are still campaigning for East West Link to be built and will put pressure on Labor leader Bill Shorten, who is fighting to hold on to marginal Labor seats in the outer east, Chisholm and Bruce.

Mr Andrews said in October he was setting up Infrastructure Victoria to “give us clear, expert advice that is independent of politics and focused on our state’s priorities’’.

The body is due to release its “foundation paper’’ on Thursday.

A copy was seen by the Herald Sun, and it examines Victoria’s infrastructure needs for the next 30 years.

“The purpose of this paper is to put all the options we’ve thought of for meeting Victoria’s infrastructure needs on the table and to invite you to contribute your views and ideas,’’ it states.

Under the headline “new and expanded assets’’ in one section of the report, it lists: “Eastern Freeway to CityLink connection (EWE) ”” improve connectivity across the city from east to west linking the Eastern Freeway to CityLink.

“CityLink to Western Ring Road connection (EWW) ”” Improve connectivity across the city from west to east, linking CityLink with M80.’’

The 148-page “All Things Considered’’ report also includes controversial options such as closing small rural schools, building a second Melbourne port, a third international airport in Melbourne’s southeast, expanding the desalination plant at Wonthaggi and using recycled water for human consumption.

But it is the ghost of the East West Link, which will haunt Mr Andrews, who pledged before the 2014 state election to tear up the contract because it “wasn’t worth the paper it was written on’’.

The report makes no mention of the government’s priority road project, the $5.5 billion Western Distributor, proposed by private toll road operator Transurban, which links the West Gate Freeway to CityLink.

The release of the report will also provide another headache for Mr Shorten.

As head of the Australian Workers Union and the member for Maribyrnong, Mr Shorten twice wrote letters backing the East West Link project.

But after Mr Andrews axed it, Mr Shorten said he no longer supported it being built.

Liberal MP for the federal seat of Deakin, Michael Sukkar, said the report showed how flawed the decision was to kill off the East West Link.

“This report confirms Bill Shorten’s absolute lack of judgment when he backed Daniel Andrews’s decision to waste $1.1b of taxpayers’ money cancelling the East West Link,’’ he said._


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## Tisme (18 May 2016)

> “This report confirms Bill Shorten’s absolute lack of judgment when he backed Daniel Andrews’s decision to waste $1.1b of taxpayers’ money cancelling the East West Link,’’ he said.




What has Bill Shorten's backing got to do with a State Govt's electoral policy (what LNP people call a mandate), he was a Federal pollie in opposition ... don't get it.


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## Tink (18 May 2016)

The three of them live/lived in Melbourne, Tisme.


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## Tisme (18 May 2016)

Tink said:


> The three of them live/lived in Melbourne, Tisme.




Triumvirate?


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## SirRumpole (18 May 2016)

The Labor Party campaigned on not building the road and won. So should we blame them or the voters ?


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## Junior (18 May 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> The Labor Party campaigned on not building the road and won. So should we blame them or the voters ?




Agreed.  They had to pull the pin on this project.

The Melbourne Metro is infinitely more important to Melbourne as a city in my opinion.  Along with removal of level crossings, this will ease (or at least slowdown the growth) in congestion across the entire city, and double the capacity of the existing train network.


----------

