# Kevin Rudd for PM



## Garpal Gumnut (26 January 2011)

Let's face it, Gillard has not got the bottle to be PM.

It appears that the Greens and the 2 Independents will keep Labor in power until the next election when voters will have the chance to turf them out. 

Rudd could also count on Bob Katter as an ally, should one of the other three dumbwits pull the pin.

In the interim, having an intelligent person, or should I say more intelligent than Gillard, would only help the country.

There is a move, a small one to be honest, to get KR back as PM.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/pm-going-flat-as-rudd-reinvigorates/story-e6freon6-1225994075706



> Some feel Rudd is yesterday's man and that neither party nor electorate will tolerate a recycled PM.
> 
> But others feel an imploding Labor Party, terrified of a general election forced by a cross-bench withdrawal of support, might just call on experienced hands.
> 
> ...




Plibersek is a Leftie, from Victoria, I believe. Traditionally in the ALP Lefties are Deputies.

gg


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## sails (26 January 2011)

lol GG - so we went from the fryng pan into the fire and now they want us back in the pan again?....  

Surely labor has better leadership possibilities than these two...

And pleeeeese not Swan...


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## Solly (6 March 2011)

> *Beware the return of Rudd, say old mates*
> FOR most people the experience of being knifed as prime minister one night would prompt some intense soul-searching.
> 
> Not so for Kevin Rudd, apparently.




http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/beware-the-return-of-rudd-say-old-mates-20110305-1bipx.html

Looks like his dream is still alive.


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## Garpal Gumnut (6 March 2011)

Solly said:


> http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/beware-the-return-of-rudd-say-old-mates-20110305-1bipx.html
> 
> Looks like his dream is still alive.




Kevin has few friends, but one of them confided to me on a flight from Sydney to Perth last week, that the silly bastard still thinks he may be PM again.

gg


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## Whiskers (6 March 2011)

Well, the myth that Gillard was one of the better performing ministers under Rudd must surely be taking a beating by now. I suppose it could even be stated that some including Gillard, had their own ideas about how to do things and couldn't match Rudds performance expectations, even resented them and became a self fulfilling profecy to Labor's then low polling.

Ironically the Labor party needs someone with Rudd's sort of work ethic and tight ship mentality to win back voters. The Gillard regime is too fluffy and weak, controlled and influenced by factional support like Shorton and the NSW labor branch. Given that most felt that the policy differences between Rudd's regime and the opposition were a minor influence in their decision, the logical inference is that it all boiled down to the leader and service delivery. 

I'm interested to see what happens after the NSW elections later this month. If Labor gets a hiding as the polls suggest, Gillard, will be looking pretty shakey and ripe for a challenge especially with the latest 'policy' decisions to appease independents and Greens to hold onto power. 

Since Labor has got on the nose in Vic and NSW support dwindling, and with Rudd's popularity here in Qld essential to maintain and probably easier to increase than most states to maintain a National Labor government... I reckon he will certainly have a go.

If there is one thing that the Australian electorate has said with certainty, with removing Howard, it's don't take us for idiots and spring major policy issues or backflips on us.


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## noco (6 March 2011)

I doubt very much Rudd would ever be Prime Minister again with his strong connection with the UN Secretary General Ki-Moon on the Climate Change Committee. His ambition is to have Ki-Moon's job and how could he possibly be in that positon if saddled with the Prime Ministership of the Australian Government.When he 'LOST' the top job, Rudd was a a plane to see Ki-Moon that same week.
In fact I would go futher to suggest, the assassination of Kevin Rudd by Julia Gillard and the so called hence men was a 'PUT UP JOB' to free Rudd from being Prime Minister to pave the way for his ambitions. A situation which may have arisen after his elevation to Prime Minister in 2007. Rudd is more than happy to be wondering around the world to impress World leaders as Foreign Minister.  I believe there is a time frame of 18 months from July 2010 for  Rudd to realize his dreams.
We may see some movement by the end of this year or early next year.


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## trainspotter (6 March 2011)

Greg Combet would not allow it for one. He is being groomed for the top job. He has the support of David Feeney, Don Farrell, Bill Shorten and Mark Arbib. But then again ... so did Julia.


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## Calliope (6 March 2011)

One of the qualifications for a Labor PM is that you must be a proficient liar. Rudd and Gillard are prolific liars, but not proficient at it.

I think Combet is an honest man. Only an honest man or a fool would say this about the unions;

 "we used to run the country and it wouldn't be a bad thing if we did again".

And I don't think he is a fool.


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## noco (6 March 2011)

noco said:


> I doubt very much Rudd would ever be Prime Minister again with his strong connection with the UN Secretary General Ki-Moon on the Climate Change Committee. His ambition is to have Ki-Moon's job and how could he possibly be in that positon if saddled with the Prime Ministership of the Australian Government.When he 'LOST' the top job, Rudd was a a plane to see Ki-Moon that same week.
> In fact I would go futher to suggest, the assassination of Kevin Rudd by Julia Gillard and the so called hence men was a 'PUT UP JOB' to free Rudd from being Prime Minister to pave the way for his ambitions. A situation which may have arisen after his elevation to Prime Minister in 2007. Rudd is more than happy to be wondering around the world to impress World leaders as Foreign Minister.  I believe there is a time frame of 18 months from July 2010 for  Rudd to realize his dreams.
> We may see some movement by the end of this year or early next year.




Upon reading Ki-Moon's lead up the ladder to Secretary General of UN, it all sounds like Kevin Rudd is following Ki-Moon's foot steps. 
Ki-Moon was elected UN Secretary General and commenced office 01/01/2007. His term is due to expire 31/12/2011 but is eligible for re-election. Now if Kevin Rudd knows something we don't, it is possible Ki-Moon may be considering retiring at the end of his 4 year term. If this happens to be true, then the angle Kevin Rudd is playing out is in the time frame of the 18 months from July 2010 as I mentioned before.
His constant touring of the world and regular contact with world leaders is to gain popularity in his run for election of Sec Gen. It is all about the psychology. That's the name of the game. He will only run again for the ALP leadership if he fails in his attempt at the big job.  


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ban_Ki-moon


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## Julia (6 March 2011)

noco said:


> His constant touring of the world and regular contact with world leaders is to gain popularity in his run for election of Sec Gen. ]



Agree.
There was some discussion about this on "The Insiders" this morning with some quite incredible video clips of our Kev, including one which he had made himself and released to the media where he's apparently talking to the troops in, I think, Afghanistan.

If he were able to view his own current frenzied global activity with any sense of objectivity he would realise he's embarrassing himself and his erstwhile colleagues.

As far as any notion of him coming back as Prime Minister, I just can't believe any sane person could consider it for a millisecond.  He was a total disaster.


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## Garpal Gumnut (10 April 2011)

Following our own Lilibet's performance recently on QANDA, one must ask, when, rather than if, ole Kev is going to be back in the Lodge.

gg


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## noco (10 April 2011)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Following our own Lilibet's performance recently on QANDA, one must ask, when, rather than if, ole Kev is going to be back in the Lodge.
> 
> gg




GG, it will depend on his success of failure with his bid for the UN Secretary General's job. I believe he is preening himself for a come back to lead the Labor Party if he fails.If he is successful, which I doubt he will be, then he will resign as Foreign Minister and there will be a bi-election for the seat of Griffith early next year.


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## sptrawler (10 April 2011)

I find this thread is reflective of the Governments problem, there seems to be more moves than a Swiss watch. Doesn't sound good for a government supposedly in office.


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## Garpal Gumnut (20 April 2011)

Rudd is counting the numbers, I am told. 

gg


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## sails (2 May 2011)

Looks like he has other interests at the moment, GG.  And most likely all paid for courtesy of the Aussie tax payer.  No wonder this government needs another tax - Rudd must be a very high maintenance chap.

From the Telegraph: Rudd nabs spot on panel 



> KEVIN Rudd has won a place on a NATO-dominated panel to guide the conflict in Libya - even though Australia plays no role in fighting to remove Muammar Gaddafi.




and apparently trying to impress the world with Aussie taxpayer funds:



> *Australia is now the third-highest contributor of humanitarian aid to Libya after the US and European Union, donating $25 million since the conflict began.*




Australia has a far smaller population than these other countries, is billions in debt, is supporting an ever growing stream of asylum seekers whether or not they are genuine, wants to inflict another major tax as there's not enough even to pay for a bit of flood damage - can we really afford this sort of big noting on the world stage?

Shouldn't there be some trying to "live within our means" with this government?


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## joea (2 May 2011)

If the USA did not push the LIBYA issue, NATO would still be trying to sort out what they  would do about the country.
So with Rudd there, they will not do much, or are they are looking for a scrapegoat.
Or better still, did Gillard whisper in their ear. He will be out of her hair then, '"trying to save the world".

Gee!. Gillard had to sort out the problems he caused in China. Now that's saying something!!! And apparently she realy did. Good on her.

Cheers


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## adobee (2 May 2011)

Im Hearing - Rudd to make come back, Turnbull being offered treasurer to change teams and Penny Wong to be deputy PM. ..


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## Julia (2 May 2011)

joea said:


> If the USA did not push the LIBYA issue, NATO would still be trying to sort out what they  would do about the country.



Well, that would have been better imo than bombing the place, especially with today's news that in an attempt to take out Gadaafi himself they killed his son and some of his grandchildren.  Fantastic!  NATO kills children.

Why could not the West simply leave all the Arabs to sort themselves out instead of yet  again becoming enmeshed in another mess?



> Gee!. Gillard had to sort out the problems he caused in China. Now that's saying something!!! And apparently she realy did. Good on her.



Agree that her performance during this recent trip has been a great improvement.
For someone who admitted foreign relations was not her best area, she seems to have acquitted herself pretty well.
The exception I'd make is with respect to lecturing China on human rights.
They are obviously not going to take any notice of her on this score, and I reckon she'd earn their brownie points more by just shutting up.
We don't want other countries lecturing us about the woeful state of our indigenous population, eg, so why should we be so pompous as to do it to other countries?


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## sptrawler (2 May 2011)

From the reports today, high performing teachers are going to get bonuses, problem is they don''t get them for 3 years. That will be the next governments problem, not theirs.


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## moXJO (2 May 2011)

Julia said:


> Well, that would have been better imo than bombing the place, especially with today's news that in an attempt to take out Gadaafi himself they killed his son and some of his grandchildren.  Fantastic!  NATO kills children.
> 
> Why could not the West simply leave all the Arabs to sort themselves out instead of yet  again becoming enmeshed in another mess?




This is what gets me. Funny how nato has become little more than assassins when it suits their purpose. And why Rudd is carrying on like Sergent slaughter on a topic that has nothing to do with Australia is beyond me, must be the ego trip of bullsh*t'ing on the world stage.


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## moXJO (6 May 2011)

> FOREIGN Minister Kevin Rudd has been drawn into an ugly international dispute over intelligence revelations, which Pakistan says could have disrupted the top-secret US operation to kill Osama bin Laden.




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/rudd-in-row-over-osama-allys-arrest/story-fn59niix-1226050795277



Thank God you're gone ruddy. And all just to increase his popularity


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## Julia (6 May 2011)

moXJO said:


> Thank God you're gone ruddy. And all just to increase his popularity



If you read the many comments following the article, it's fairly obvious any intention of increasing his popularity has been a dismal failure.
A quite astonishing collection of vituperation toward the ex PM.  

You'd have to wonder how he feels when he reads that sort of comment about his behaviour?   Perhaps, though, he's so deluded he simply thinks everyone else is wrong.


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## sails (6 May 2011)

Julia said:


> ...You'd have to wonder how he feels when he reads that sort of comment about his behaviour?   Perhaps, though, he's so deluded he simply thinks everyone else is wrong.




This likely delusional behaviour doesn't seem to be limited to Rudd.  Gillard and Swan appear be right up there with him...


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## noco (6 May 2011)

Julia said:


> If you read the many comments following the article, it's fairly obvious any intention of increasing his popularity has been a dismal failure.
> A quite astonishing collection of vituperation toward the ex PM.
> 
> You'd have to wonder how he feels when he reads that sort of comment about his behaviour?   Perhaps, though, he's so deluded he simply thinks everyone else is wrong.




Well Julia, I do believe Rudd had given up his dream of becoming UN Secretary General with his determination to demolish Julia Gillard during the past couple of months. It was pretty obvious he was angling to retrieve his old job as PM., but it is now becoming apparent that he will not be successful with either position. What he does from here on will be interesting indeed.


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## noco (25 May 2011)

Judging by the amount of travel and cost to the tax payer, Rudd has not given up on his ambition to claim a seat on the UN general assembly and his further dream of becoming UN General Secretary. It is all about popularising himself with world leaders. However,from the bits and pieces one accumulates, indications are that many world leaders consider Rudd to be of little significancts and his chances of realising his dreams are slowly dimimishing.  
Furthermore, his come back as Prime Minister is also fading. So where to now Mr. Rudd?
http://blogs.news.com.au/couriermai...ermail/comments/rudd_a_very_foreign_minister/


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## nulla nulla (25 May 2011)

moXJO said:


> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/rudd-in-row-over-osama-allys-arrest/story-fn59niix-1226050795277
> 
> 
> 
> Thank God you're gone ruddy. And all just to increase his popularity




Hard to give to much credence to foriegn "inteligence" and overseas foreign policy given their "weapons of Mass destruction" claims in Iraq and "Osama in Afghanistan".


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## sptrawler (25 May 2011)

noco said:


> Well Julia, I do believe Rudd had given up his dream of becoming UN Secretary General with his determination to demolish Julia Gillard during the past couple of months. It was pretty obvious he was angling to retrieve his old job as PM., but it is now becoming apparent that he will not be successful with either position. What he does from here on will be interesting indeed.




I think he is pretty much me, me and he has probably worked out the best outcome is to fulfill his bucket list of places to see.
They (labor) have nothing on their agenda that has any long term upside. Even their partners (greens) are prepared to compromise on their carbon price demands.
It's sad but this whole debacle is heading down the toilet, even Julia is saying we are going for the long term. One assumes this is for her parliamentary pension and she has convinced Bob Brown to do the same.
Who knows how much this will cost to unwind.


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## Garpal Gumnut (2 October 2011)

I do hope, that now the NRL Grand Final is out of the way, the NSW ALP can get rid of Julia Gillard, and get Kevin Rudd back in to the Lodge.

This is a necessary pre-requisite for a snap election before Christmas.

Tony Abbott expects to go head to head with Rudd, so the sooner it happens the better.

Come on Sussex St., get a move on. Otherwise we won't see Tony as PM until late 2012.

gg


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## sails (3 October 2011)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> ...Otherwise we won't see Tony as PM until late 2012.
> 
> gg




And will there be anything left of labor if that happens?  

What's the point of having such a massive majority for the coalition and a weak opposition?  That's the other extreme to being held to ransom by minor people in  a minority government and neither extreme is good for the country, imo.

 Surely labor MPs can see that their electorates are fuming and that their careers are over if they don't do something?  I don't understand why they have waited so long and watched on like stuffed mullets while Gillard has steadily alienated voters since her carbon tax announcement earlier this year.

A snap election BEFORE carbon tax is legislated would likely give labor some favour in the polls.


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## noco (7 October 2011)

Is Rudd playing games with Gillard or is he fair dinkum?

Is it possible, if he does not fullfil his UN dream or dislodge Gillard and become PM again, he flitter off into the "SUNSET".





http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...bstacle-he-faces/story-e6frgd0x-1226160619644


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## Julia (7 October 2011)

ABC Radio reported today that when Mr Rudd was asked about Mr Richardson's comments, he suggested the reporter should consider that Mr Richardson is probably suffering from relevance deprivation syndrome.

I thought it was quite funny, given Mr Rudd's behaviour since being deposed is a pretty perfect example of said syndrome.

The 14 year old boy being held in Bali on a possible drugs charge is manna from heaven for our Kev.  He gets to sound in charge and oh so compassionate.
Just listening to him over the last 24 hours reminds me all over again how utterly pompous and awful he is.


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## noco (7 October 2011)

noco said:


> Is Rudd playing games with Gillard or is he fair dinkum?
> 
> Is it possible, if he does not fullfil his UN dream or dislodge Gillard and become PM again, he flitter off into the "SUNSET".
> 
> ...




How is some more game play with Rudd.

Please read the comments to the attched link. 


http://blogs.news.com.au/couriermai...ents/the_leadership_talk_is_now_just_routine/


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## staghorn (7 October 2011)

The Rudd govt was absolutely paralysed by his inability to delegate and refusal to take advice (while insisting everyone give it to him at 5 a.m.).  I doubt he's changed.  Probably got worse, with a sense of being hard done by to back it up.  Just because he's popular with the people doesn't mean they'll make the same mistake again.  One can but hope not.


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## noco (7 October 2011)

Kevin Rudd is like dripping tap. Doesn't make a lot of noise but can be very annoying especially to the ears of Julia Gillard.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...the-alp-factions/story-fn59niix-1226161292284


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## noco (8 October 2011)

Kevin 11 is trying so hard to recapture his old job with the reason he does not won't Tony Abbott to become Prime Minister.

 I think it is becoming more evident by the day, his bid for a seat on the UN is diminishing as his popularity with world leaders is below his expectations.

It is now a matter of whether the Labor power brokers will entertain his return. That is the burning question.




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...on-tax-is-cooked/story-e6frgd0x-1226161585465


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## noco (8 October 2011)

What a tangled web is appearing in the Labor Party. 

I wish to hell they would get it over and done with and have an election for the voters to decide.





http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...rds-on-the-table/story-e6frgd0x-1226161661464


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## GumbyLearner (8 October 2011)

noco said:


> What a tangled web is appearing in the Labor Party.
> 
> I wish to hell they would get it over and done with and have an election for the voters to decide.




Hi noco

It doesn't matter who runs the Labor Party/Libs-Nats because the Greens run the Senate for the next six years. 

cheers
gumbylearner


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## noco (8 October 2011)

GumbyLearner said:


> Hi noco
> 
> It doesn't matter who runs the Labor Party/Libs-Nats because the Greens run the Senate for the next six years.
> 
> ...




Well that may not be the case.  If Abbott did become Prime Minister whether this year or next year,there my be a possibility that the Greens may defeat legislation in the senate. If it is represented a second time and is defeated, Abbott may call the Greens bluff with a double dissolution of both houses, which means the Greens may lose control of the senate and as long as voters become more aware of the Greens idiology, the less support they will get. I think you will also find that most of the Greens got in on Labor and Liberal preferences. Imho that will not happen again. So things could change very quickly.


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## GumbyLearner (9 October 2011)

noco said:


> Well that may not be the case.  If Abbott did become Prime Minister whether this year or next year,there my be a possibility that the Greens may defeat legislation in the senate. *If it is represented a second time and is defeated, Abbott may call the Greens bluff with a double dissolution of both houses, which means the Greens may lose control of the senate and as long as voters become more aware of the Greens idiology, the less support they will get.* I think you will also find that most of the Greens got in on Labor and Liberal preferences. Imho that will not happen again. So things could change very quickly.




One can only hope.


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## noco (9 October 2011)

Every which way you turn, Kevin11 is on TV, in the papers and on the internet. He has more appearances than his beloved Prime Minister who he says has his full support. Yeah to the back bench!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Next week on Capital Hill will be very entertaining. There will be more fireworks than Guy Forkes.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...k-on-tony-abbott/story-fn59niix-1226161665486


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## Garpal Gumnut (9 October 2011)

GumbyLearner said:


> Hi noco
> 
> It doesn't matter who runs the Labor Party/Libs-Nats because the Greens run the Senate for the next six years.
> 
> ...




I do not agree.

Tony Abbott as PM will force a double dissolution, something Rudd when PM did not have the bottle for.

Then it's bye bye bottom of the garden stuff for another 15 or 20 years. Real government will be seen again.

Rudd has no bottle and prefers to scheme. When it comes to a decision he wilts.

gg


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## sails (9 October 2011)

There will be another half senate election by 2013 (as I understand it) and if several alp AND greens are replaced with libs, I think it would change the balance of power.  

Here is the reasoning - happy to be corrected if I've got the numbers wrong...


From this link from the ABC total senate is as follows: 

Coalition = 34
ALP = 31
Greens = 9
Other = 2

So, it would only take a minimum of 5 alp or green senators to be replaced with coalition senators in 2013 and that would give the coalition a one seat majority in the senate by the time they take office in 2014.  


More on the senate from AEC: http://www.aec.gov.au/Voting/How_to_vote/Voting_Senate.htm

But better still if there is a new election sooner and Abbott can pull off a DD...


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## Julia (9 October 2011)

GumbyLearner said:


> Hi noco
> 
> It doesn't matter who runs the Labor Party/Libs-Nats because the Greens run the Senate for the next six years.
> 
> ...



GL, Noco has outlined Tony Abott's potential strategy.  I agree with that.



noco said:


> Every which way you turn, Kevin11 is on TV, in the papers and on the internet. He has more appearances than his beloved Prime Minister who he says has his full support. Yeah to the back bench!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Next week on Capital Hill will be very entertaining. There will be more fireworks than Guy Fawkes



It's becoming quite farcical.  He's so absolutely unsubtle.
Sadly for the kid in Bali ,Rudd's grandstanding has probably made getting a quiet resolution much more difficult.

Julia Gillard made a huge mistake when she let Kev back into the fold and gave him a ministerial position.


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## noco (9 October 2011)

Julia said:


> GL, Noco has outlined Tony Abott's potential strategy.  I agree with that.
> 
> 
> It's becoming quite farcical.  He's so absolutely unsubtle.
> ...




She probably gave him the Foreign Ministry to get him out of the country and out of her hair.

But I still believe Rudd needed 18 months to popularise himself with world leaders in his endeavour to gain a UN Seat and later General Secretary. He followed in Ban Ki-Moon's track and mirrored his every movement.


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## noco (9 October 2011)

After reading the link below regarding Rudd's postponement of his speech to the UN
from 6pm, to 8.30pm to 9pm, is it possible, all is not well with his heart operation?
The staff said, there health issues.

I made a comment early in September, Rudd may use ill health  as an excuse to quit parliament so he Terise can retire in London. It may well happen if he misses out on the UN and a return to the leadership of the Labor Party. May be he does not need that excuse. He may have no option.


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...s-leadership-bid/story-e6frerdf-1226161596010


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## Calliope (9 October 2011)

Julia said:


> Julia Gillard made a huge mistake when she let Kev back into the fold and gave him a ministerial position.




Yes, it's a bit like the Libyan rebels taking Gadaffi back into the fold and making him Defence Minister. But I suppose Gillard thought it was safer to have him inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in. Big mistake!


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## Calliope (9 October 2011)

From noco's link;



> This anecdote brings into focus one of the most discussed questions among Labor politicians and observers in Canberra - can Rudd change his attitude and behaviour?




The old Rudd was obnoxious. The new Rudd would be *fake, fake fake*, and he is a lousy actor, and would fool no one.


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## kavla1970 (9 October 2011)

I really wonder where this country is going when, on both sides of the house, all they seem to do is rehash old leaders. Nothing against Rudd but doesn't the Labor Party have anyone else?


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## noco (9 October 2011)

kavla1970 said:


> I really wonder where this country is going when, on both sides of the house, all they seem to do is rehash old leaders. Nothing against Rudd but doesn't the Labor Party have anyone else?




The Labor Party should get Bob Brown to defect. He would love to be Prime Minister.

Well, I guess you could say he is like a deputy Prime Minister now.


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## noco (10 October 2011)

Things will be hotting up in Canberra this week for sure.

I understood Windsor and Oakshot joined up with Labor for government stability.Now they are having second thoughts.

Even Labor back benches say  Einstein would not be able to sort out Labor's mess. 



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...or-looming-fight/story-e6frgd0x-1226162504581


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## joea (10 October 2011)

Hi.
I think the issue on the carbon tax and "seekers" saga will be be the highlights this week.
How these are handled, will then set the scene for Government leadership.
joea


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## drsmith (10 October 2011)

Me thinks Julia Gillard's little chat with News's media executives has worn off.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...or-looming-fight/story-e6frgd0x-1226162504581


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## joea (10 October 2011)

Hi.
It is interesting that the media make reference to the phone call from the  PM to the 14 year old detained in Bali.
It is interesting in the fact that Rudd had a fair bit of media exposure already on the 14 year old. Now Gillard is putting forward her 2 bobs worth.

Are these two now in a competition of media coverage, leading up to a challenge?

I think Gillard is making a fool of herself in attempting to overshadow other Labor MP's, when it appears she is  just chasing media exposure.
Or am I just seeing things that are not realy there.?
joea


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## drsmith (10 October 2011)

Kevin Rudd ??

Has he convinced a backbencher or two to vote the other way on Julia Gillard's carbon tax (oops, that's Bob Brown's carbon tax) ?

??

?


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## Julia (10 October 2011)

drsmith said:


> Kevin Rudd ??
> 
> Has he convinced a backbencher or two to vote the other way on Julia Gillard's carbon tax (oops, that's Bob Brown's carbon tax) ?
> ?



What are you getting at here?  
That Kev wants to persuade Labor backbenchers to vote against the carbon tax?

If he thinks he can make a comeback, I reckon it would have to be on a policy of delaying (translation: wiping) the carbon tax until or unless the rest of the world embarks on a global ETS or similar.

This would be reasonably credible on his part, as he had previously announced the deferral of the ETS on this basis.

Given the absolute unpopularity of the carbon tax, such a policy platform for Rudd would appear to give him a heads up with the electorate and make mincemeat out of Julia Gillards broken promise.

If this is his plan, he's going to have to move pretty smartly as apparently the carbon tax bills are up for this week.


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## drsmith (10 October 2011)

Julia said:


> What are you getting at here?
> That Kev wants to persuade Labor backbenchers to vote against the carbon tax?
> 
> If he thinks he can make a comeback, I reckon it would have to be on a policy of delaying (translation: wiping) the carbon tax until or unless the rest of the world embarks on a global ETS or similar.
> ...



He wouldn't want to do the dirty work himself, would he ?



Julia said:


> Given the absolute unpopularity of the carbon tax, such a policy platform for Rudd would appear to give him a heads up with the electorate and make mincemeat out of Julia Gillards broken promise.
> 
> If this is his plan, he's going to have to move pretty smartly as apparently the carbon tax bills are up for this week.



One's natural respone is not to stand still when knife is inserted in back, is it ?


----------



## Julia (10 October 2011)

drsmith, could you perhaps express your thoughts re Rudd's proposed strategy in somewhat less cryptic terms?

i.e. do you believe he wants to stop the carbon tax legislation going through, or are you saying he doesn't care whether it does or not, as long as he is not the author of it?

In other words, what are you suggesting Rudd's plan actually is as at the present time?


----------



## drsmith (10 October 2011)

I just hope someone bloody stops it.



Julia said:


> drsmith, could you perhaps express your thoughts re Rudd's proposed strategy in somewhat less cryptic terms?


----------



## joea (23 December 2011)

The Australian Way

Judy Rudd an amateur genealogy researcher in South East Qld., was doing some research on her own family tree. She discovered that Kevin Rudd's great-great uncle, Remus Rudd was hanged for horse stealing and train robbery in Melbourne in 1889.
There is a picture with Remus standing on the gallows. On the back of the picture is an inscription as follows which she sent to Kevin.

"Remus Rudd horse thief, sent to Melbourne Goal 1885, escaped 1887, robbed the Melbourne-Geelong train six times. Caught by Victoria Police Force, convicted and hanged in 1889".

Believe it or not, Kevin Rudd's staff sent back the following biographical sketch for her genealogy research:

" Remus Rudd was famous in Victoria during the mid to late 1800s. His business empire grew to include acquisition of valuable equestrian assets and intimate dealings with Melbourne-Geelong Railroad.
Beginning in 1883, he devoted several years of his life to government service, finally taking leave to resume his dealings with the railroad.
In 1887, he was a key player in a vital investigation run by the Victoria Police Force. In 1889, Remus passed away during an important civic function held in his honour when the platform upon which he was standing collapsed."

Now that's how it is done folks.
joea


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (3 February 2012)

My contacts in the Sourcebottle Factory tell me that the Foreign Minister is busy doing the numbers for an imminent tilt at Julia Gillard's position.

He doesn't have those numbers at present but the backbench are gobbling Pro-Zack at dangerous doses without effect. Their imminent demise at the hands of the electorate is encouraging them to consider the inevitable.

The return of Rudd.

gg


----------



## drsmith (3 February 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Their imminent demise at the hands of the electorate is encouraging them to consider the inevitable.



Isn't that inconcevable ?

It is standared fare though for the current version of Labor to do what looks inconcevable to the mortal voter.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (3 February 2012)

drsmith said:


> Isn't that inconcevable ?
> 
> It is standared fare though for the current version of Labor to do what looks inconcevable to the mortal voter.




They would say it's not their fault, that it is the Pro-Zacks.

In truth they have no Bottle. They do as they are told by the union heavies who control them in Cabinet and in the branches.

gg


----------



## drsmith (3 February 2012)

Going back to Kevin Rudd won't help them.

This is perhaps why they have allowed themselves to hemorrhage under Julia Gillard for so long.


----------



## Calliope (3 February 2012)

drsmith said:


> Going back to Kevin Rudd won't help them.
> 
> This is perhaps why they have allowed themselves to hemorrhage under Julia Gillard for so long.




Gillard is an electoral disaster, but I think she is an essentially decent woman. Rudd on the other hand is a thoroughly nasty piece of work. The thought of him back in power with his fawning immature advisers is a shocking scenario.


----------



## drsmith (3 February 2012)

Calliope said:


> Gillard is an electoral disaster, but I think she is an essentially decent woman.



I see her is a ruthless politician who will walk over anyone for office.

The latter is perhaps her problem in that she doesn't discriminate between political friend or foe.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is Bill starting to panic over his own political future ?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/br...ship-speculation/story-e6frf7jx-1226261857110


----------



## noco (3 February 2012)

This is history repeating itself all over again with this Labor Party whether it is Federal or State.

Do what ever it takes to stay in power.

If their popularity is in decline, change the leader, that will fix it!!!!!!!!!!

The only way to fix it is election and if Rudd gets back in, he may not have the support of the Indies, so there may be no choice for Labor and perhaps no hope.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (3 February 2012)

My contacts in Sussex St. tell me that Rudd has lost more support today, and that staying with Julia may be the plan, unless.........

gg


----------



## drsmith (3 February 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> My contacts in Sussex St. tell me that Rudd has lost more support today, and that staying with Julia may be the plan, unless.........
> 
> gg




Labor seems to have contorted itself into a most undignified position.



> “The debate now is whether you can go back to Kevin and not have a walkout,” a senior figure says, ar*guing a number of MPs would resign from the frontbench, or even resign from Parliament rather than work with the Queenslander again. “You have to understand that moving to Kevin means instantaneous election. The only way Kevin is going to keep people in line is with an election campaign.”
> 
> So the threat of an early election is now being waved in front of MPs who have quietly withdrawn from Gillard’s camp but can’t commit themselves to Rudd.




And the operation of government as well.



> An early election would not only crystallise voters’ views about the two sides of politics but put elections for the two houses of Parliament out of kilter, since a half-Senate election can’t be held until late next year.
> 
> That means whoever were to win a 2012 House of Representatives election would face the judgment of the people at a Senate poll in 2013, and face a hostile Senate in the meantime.




http://afr.com/p/national/desperate_labor_mps_turning_against_6WlIZxAGKfSHAXWLoI9nzL


----------



## Julia (3 February 2012)

Calliope said:


> Gillard is an electoral disaster, but I think she is an essentially decent woman. Rudd on the other hand is a thoroughly nasty piece of work. The thought of him back in power with his fawning immature advisers is a shocking scenario.



 Good heavens, Calliope, Gillard an "essentially decent woman"?  She has shown herself to be one of the most self interested, viciously competitive politicians ever who will do whatever it takes to keep herself in power.

Her decisions have been all about what benefits her, rather than what's best for Australia and its people.

Agree, however, with your assessment of Rudd.   It's a most unpleasant choice, but of the two I detest Gillard slightly less.

Imo they should toss them both and have a go with Smith and Bowen, both of whom appear to at least have the capacity to be a bit thoughtful and rational.


----------



## Logique (4 February 2012)

Rudd can win them an election, Gillard can't, and they all know it. Time is on his side, he can patiently stalk the leadership over the next 18 months. If the Gillard supporters had any tactical nous they'd call him out and bring on a spill. But blind personal ambition won't take the risk.

On a different subject I happened to see _The Project_ on Ch10 last night, I was shocked at the anti-Abbott tirade from Charles, Hughesy and co. Every second 'news' item seemed to be a 'lets laugh at Tony' gotcha piece. By contrast Kevin was described as 'Ruddy'. I shouldn't wonder during the ad breaks they stick pins into little voodoo dolls of Abbott, and afterwards burn him in effigy in the foyer.  One look at the guest list of _The Project_ tells you about the show's political leanings.


----------



## Logique (4 February 2012)

Julia said:


> ..Imo they should toss them both and have a go with Smith and Bowen, both of whom appear to at least have the capacity to be a bit thoughtful and rational.



Yes that would be a good start. Felt for Chris Bowen, handed   the 'Immigration Muggins' ministry. A potential rival shoved into a dirty job.


----------



## joea (4 February 2012)

Logique said:


> Rudd can win them an election, Gillard can't, and they all know it. Time is on his side, he can patiently stalk the leadership over the next 18 months.




I am not sure that Rudd could win an election. It is possible that he could win a challenge. However he does not have the support at this point in time.
My reasons for saying this is, at the next Federal election, the Australian voter will not be voting for a particular person, or a party, they will be voting Labor out.
Rudd has the opportunity to make two challenges.
As can be seen he is a man on a mission of mischief.
If he is successful in helping Bligh, then you will see a challenge.

Now you will ask how will we know if he is successful in Queensland state election?.
Answer: By preventing Campbell Newman obtaining a seat.

If Newman wins his seat, it will be all down hill for Labor in Queensland.

We will then see if Rudd panics and challenges, or be sure of his support then challenge.
If I read the body language of Rudd correctly he will only challenge once, because Gillard will be too smart to have it happen the second time.

The Labor power brokers have not got a viable alternative to Gillard. No doubt Rudd has got a list of milestones to get him to PM. However the Queensland election is his 
"Achilles Heel" in his quest.
joea


----------



## Calliope (4 February 2012)

Julia said:


> Good heavens, Calliope, Gillard an "essentially decent woman"?  She has shown herself to be one of the most self interested, viciously competitive politicians ever who will do whatever it takes to keep herself in power.




Only two bites? I recognised her caring side in "At Home With Julia."


----------



## JTLP (4 February 2012)

Logique said:


> On a different subject I happened to see _The Project_ on Ch10 last night, I was shocked at the anti-Abbott tirade from Charles, Hughesy and co. Every second 'news' item seemed to be a 'lets laugh at Tony' gotcha piece. By contrast Kevin was described as 'Ruddy'. I shouldn't wonder during the ad breaks they stick pins into little voodoo dolls of Abbott, and afterwards burn him in effigy in the foyer.  One look at the guest list of _The Project_ tells you about the show's political leanings.




I despise that show. And it's most likely for the reasons you list above. Kevin Rudd as 'Ruddy'...cut me a break. I'm assuming the target demographic and viewership of the show are young lefties who think David Hughes is funny (shoot me now) and that Charlie Pickerings indie dress sense gives them a cause to celebrate.

What was that great quote - _when you're young and stupid you vote Labor...when you're old and wise you vote Liberal_ obviously not verbatim but you get the point...


----------



## trainspotter (4 February 2012)

I think it is called "satire" for a reason ! :


----------



## Calliope (5 February 2012)

Bob Katter is a ratbag.:screwy::cowboy:



> A gun-toting independent MP Bob Katter also used the Queensland launch of his firearms policy yesterday to bolster Mr Rudd's credentials, hinting he would "most certainly" be open to considering a deal with a future Rudd government.
> 
> "Everybody knows that Kevin and I are friends and have been mates," he said.
> 
> "I have great respect for him.




http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/mo...if-he-challenges/story-fn7x8me2-1226262766537


----------



## noco (5 February 2012)

Do any ASF members really believe Rudd wants to be Prime Minister again knowing that he does not have the numbers or is he just keeping the pot boiling while Gillard stews in it. He also knows at least two Indies will withdraw support if Gillard goes. Rudd is doing his best to wear Gillard down.

Maybe if there is a spill, and I think he will do his best to bring it on, he is trying to open the door for Stephan Smith or Simon Crean rather than himself just get back at Gillard. If Gillard does go, it won't be to the back bench, it will be out the door.She won't hang around.

Rudd still has ambitions of acquiring a seat on the UN and would have no chance of getting it while being Prime Minister. I still believe he is abidding his time in hope, and, having a little fun in the mean time. Like a cat with a mouse, every time the mouse moves he pounces on it.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (21 April 2012)

My contacts tell me that the kerfuffle over Slippery Pete and open shower doors, massages, texts, taxis etc. etc., has rejuvenated Little Kevvie.

It has also rejuvenated his supporters and there is further number crunching being done.

Parliament will become unmanageable, unless Slippery is fronted to step aside.

If Slippery steps aside it will become unmanageable as Wilkie will oppose any ALP bills.

My contacts in Sussex St. tell me that the only course for the ALP is to stick it out for an election next year. An election this year will lead to a wipeput and the possible demise of the party.

Little Kevvie is the only hope on the reckoning, and Gillard will be given the whisper. 

Rudd can count on Wilkie, Katter and the 2 NSW independent muppets, and the Green will do as he is told, even Slippery and Thomson will support Rudd until the chains begin to rattle. 

Kevin Rudd is the only ALP member capable of maintaining a majority to an election next year, according to my sources.

The Chairman's Lounge in Sydney Airport is going to be quite crowded on Monday morning when QF 108 lands from Los Angeles.

I may even pop down myself for breakfast.

gg


----------



## MrBurns (21 April 2012)

I don't think Slipper will be in the chair when Parliament resumes, Labors best option is to put Rudd back just before election to get some sympathy votes but not have him there long enough before the election so that people can remember they didn't like him either.

The Carbon Tax will be a disaster and Gillard will throw money out left and right in a vain effort to buy support but it won't work.


----------



## drsmith (21 April 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> My contacts tell me that the kerfuffle over Slippery Pete and open shower doors, massages, texts, taxis etc. etc., has rejuvenated Little Kevvie.



Gough Whitlam is still kicking.

Perhaps they'll bring him back.


----------



## drsmith (21 April 2012)

MrBurns said:


> I don't think Slipper will be in the chair when Parliament resumes, Labors best option is to put Rudd back just before election to get some sympathy votes but not have him there long enough before the election so that people can remember they didn't like him either.
> 
> The Carbon Tax will be a disaster and Gillard will throw money out left and right in a vain effort to buy support but it won't work.



They can't bring back Kev.

Labor has handed the opposition more ammo on him than the all the super-powers nuclear arsenal combined.

It will be someone new, to best salvage what they can from the sinking ship.


----------



## MrBurns (21 April 2012)

drsmith said:


> They can't bring back Kev.
> 
> Labor has handed the opposition more ammo on him than the all the super-powers nuclear arsenal combined.
> 
> It will be someone new, to best salvage what they can from the sinking ship.




Yes you're right I hadn't factored that in.

Then theres no one, Gilard will continue to fail and I can hardly wait for election eve, Kerry O'Brian will be full of red wine and in top form.


----------



## Julia (21 April 2012)

drsmith said:


> They can't bring back Kev.
> 
> Labor has handed the opposition more ammo on him than the all the super-powers nuclear arsenal combined.
> 
> It will be someone new, to best salvage what they can from the sinking ship.



 Yes, you're right.  Kev belongs in the past.
Hard to know who they will use to replace Gillard if she continues to fall in the polls.

Eager, So Cynical et al:  who do you think should lead your chosen party?


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (21 April 2012)

Julia said:


> Yes, you're right.  Kev belongs in the past.
> Hard to know who they will use to replace Gillard if she continues to fall in the polls.
> 
> Eager, So Cynical et al:  who do you think should lead your chosen party?




Eager and Sc's opinion will not count, as ALP members do not have much say in what happens.

I would put money on it that KR is sitting up all night tonight taking calls. 

gg


----------



## noco (21 April 2012)

History will be broken.

Three elections in Queensland in one year plus the bi election for Bligh's seat of Sth. Brisbane

State in March 2012
Local Government April 2012
Federal Government  ???????2012.


----------



## noirua (22 April 2012)

Julia said:


> Yes, you're right.  Kev belongs in the past.
> Hard to know who they will use to replace Gillard if she continues to fall in the polls.
> 
> Eager, So Cynical et al:  who do you think should lead your chosen party?




Kevin Rudd has failed badly and appeared to be just not mentally strong enough. Unfortunately, those who support Labor, may see a party divided against itself if there is a Rudd - Gillard standoff. A party divided against itself cannot stand.

Depending on your thoughts on mining in New South Wales, most mining companies, led by China's Shenhua Energy, are waiting for a change of government after the holdup over their Watermark project (concern about use  of a longwall underground system -- Wikileaks is on the case.)


----------



## sails (22 April 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Eager and Sc's opinion will not count, as ALP members do not have much say in what happens.
> 
> I would put money on it that KR is sitting up all night tonight taking calls.
> 
> gg





Do ALP members or MPs have ANY say?  It seems incredible that, in a democratic system, a party can deny their MPs a say.

How on earth do these members represent their electorates if they are forced to vote for the leader's personal agendas?

I think this has been an overlooked fact by many who have voted for labor, however, I suspect it has been the reason Gillard was so determined to be a labor PM so she could inflict whatever she wanted in to this country.


----------



## nulla nulla (22 April 2012)

sails said:


> Do ALP members or MPs have ANY say?  It seems incredible that, in a democratic system, a party can deny their MPs a say.
> 
> How on earth do these members represent their electorates if they are forced to vote for the leader's personal agendas?
> 
> I think this has been an overlooked fact by many who have voted for labor, however, I suspect it has been the reason Gillard was so determined to be a labor PM so she could inflict whatever she wanted in to this country.




Is this one tongue in cheek (pun intended).


----------



## Julia (22 April 2012)

sails said:


> Do ALP members or MPs have ANY say?  It seems incredible that, in a democratic system, a party can deny their MPs a say.
> 
> How on earth do these members represent their electorates if they are forced to vote for the leader's personal agendas?
> 
> I think this has been an overlooked fact by many who have voted for labor, however, I suspect it has been the reason Gillard was so determined to be a labor PM so she could inflict whatever she wanted in to this country.



Doesn't the Coalition largely do likewise?  i.e. they have a party line which all members are expected to promote.  They may have adjusted their thinking recently but the last I heard was they were not even going to allow a conscience vote on gay marriage.


----------



## nulla nulla (22 April 2012)

Julia said:


> Doesn't the Coalition largely do likewise?  i.e. they have a party line which all members are expected to promote.  They may have adjusted their thinking recently but the last I heard was they were not even going to allow a conscience vote on gay marriage.




Julia, I would like to thank you for your candor and impartial objectivity.  

(Apologies in advance for any spelling errors).


----------



## sails (22 April 2012)

nulla nulla said:


> Is this one tongue in cheek (pun intended).





I wish it were, Nulla!  This from Wiki explains this seeming draconian labor policy:

*



			In Australia, one of the major parties (the Australian Labor Party) forbids its members from crossing the floor,[1] while amongst other parties it is rare.
		
Click to expand...


*
It seems that labor MPs allegience is to their party more than to represent their constituents.  Maybe GG can expand a bit more on this policy...

And most parties do expect their members to support party line.  However, the libs can cross the floor without threat of expulsion as I understand it.  Labor MPs apparently face expulsion.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_floor


----------



## drsmith (22 April 2012)

Julia said:


> Doesn't the Coalition largely do likewise?  i.e. they have a party line which all members are expected to promote.  They may have adjusted their thinking recently but the last I heard was they were not even going to allow a conscience vote on gay marriage.



Both major parties went to the last election opposing gay marriage.

If either (or both) wish to change that policy, ie: make it a conscience vote, they can take that to the electorate at the next election.

That's the right thing to do by the voting public.


----------



## sails (22 April 2012)

Julia said:


> Doesn't the Coalition largely do likewise?  i.e. they have a party line which all members are expected to promote.  They may have adjusted their thinking recently but the last I heard was they were not even going to allow a conscience vote on gay marriage.




Julia, this also from the same wiki page:



> Senator Barnaby Joyce of the National Party of Australia however, crossed the floor 19 times under the Howard coalition government.[2] However, the record for crossing the floor in the Australian Parliament goes to Tasmanian Senator Sir Reg Wright, who voted against his own party (the Liberal Party of Australia) on 150 occasions.




Barnaby Joyce has not been expelled.


----------



## Julia (22 April 2012)

sails said:


> Julia, this also from the same wiki page:
> Barnaby Joyce has not been expelled.



I didn't suggest anyone was going to be expelled.

I simply drew attention to the fact that in most instances Coalition members are expected to vote as a bloc along party lines.

Barnaby Joyce is well known as a maverick and as such imo doesn't really typify the standard Coalition member.


----------



## Julia (22 April 2012)

nulla nulla said:


> J
> (Apologies in advance for any spelling errors).





  Hope I usually reserve any criticism of spelling etc for the Spelling and Grammar thread.  Sorry if I'm pedantic.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (24 April 2012)

I am reliably informed from the palace of the Brissie King that the quest for leadership of what is left of the Australian Labor Federal Caucus, is,  officially again,  ON.

gg


----------



## MrBurns (24 April 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I am reliably informed from the palace of the Brissie King that the quest for leadership of what is left of the Australian Labor Federal Caucus, is,  officially again,  ON.
> gg




Good, I'm no fan of Rudd but anything to see Gillard put in her place.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (24 April 2012)

MrBurns said:


> Good, I'm no fan of Rudd but anything to see Gillard put in her place.




My contacts in Sussex St. assure me that the odds have SHORTENed on a dream team with the Brissie King.

gg


----------



## MrBurns (24 April 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> My contacts in Sussex St. assure me that the odds have SHORTENed on a dream team with the Brissie King.
> 
> gg




My razor sharp senses detect a possible hidden message in that post, I have my decoders working on it right now.


----------



## qldfrog (24 April 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> My contacts in Sussex St. assure me that the odds have SHORTENed on a dream team with the Brissie King.
> 
> gg



He will have to make a move dangerous as cunning, I hate what he personifies


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (24 April 2012)

qldfrog said:


> He will have to make a move dangerous as cunning, I hate what he personifies




My contacts in the world of Cygnini tell me that it is a fait accompli , and that a move to the backbench by a prominent ALP identity will accompany the change.

gg


----------



## qldfrog (24 April 2012)

GG,
I was fearing this,
coming from you, will probably be on the news in a few days..
Thanks for the tip


----------



## StumpyPhantom (24 April 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I am reliably informed from the palace of the Brissie King that the quest for leadership of what is left of the Australian Labor Federal Caucus, is,  officially again,  ON.
> 
> gg




No NO NO!!

This can't be true.  All you conservatives have to now put your effort into propping Gillard up until the election.

She has to face up to the electorate that she told would have no carbon tax.  We have to hear her concession speech and look for expressions of remorse (I'm already writing one for her where she uses emergency powers to call in the Army because she doesn't think the electorate knows what's best for it).


----------



## drsmith (24 April 2012)

Forget Kevin Rudd.

Even if they could resurrect Jesus Christ, it wouldn't make any diference.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (24 April 2012)

StumpyPhantom said:


> No NO NO!!
> 
> This can't be true.  All you conservatives have to now put your effort into propping Gillard up until the election.
> 
> She has to face up to the electorate that she told would have no carbon tax.  We have to hear her concession speech and look for expressions of remorse (I'm already writing one for her where she uses emergency powers to call in the Army because she doesn't think the electorate knows what's best for it).




Unfortunately mate, the concession speech will be from the Brissie King.

It will begin thus, in some godforsaken bowls club in his electorate full of godforsaken bowlers, leftards, and his family, with that well known look up, look down, tongue on incisors, bottom lip pucker and then that daft smile.

" Friends " 

Sorry I am going to throw up. Can somebody finish the Brissie King's farewell to the nutters.

gg


----------



## sails (24 April 2012)

GG - wouldn't Shorten be nipping at Rudd's heels for the leadership?


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (24 April 2012)

sails said:


> GG - wouldn't Shorten be nipping at Rudd's heels for the leadership?




It is interesting that you brought it up, as I consult my diary sometime last year I was privileged to share a Vietnamese meal of BÃºn Thịt Nướng Chả GiÃ², amongst other dishes with the aptly named little friend of the rich and the workers.

Over a short trip to the pissoir I challenged him on his aspirations for leadership.

I can only quote his reply.

" Who would be ****ing mad enough to take the leadership until we are in opposition "

gg


----------



## StumpyPhantom (24 April 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Unfortunately mate, the concession speech will be from the Brissie King.
> 
> It will begin thus, in some godforsaken bowls club in his electorate full of godforsaken bowlers, leftards, and his family, with that well known look up, look down, tongue on incisors, bottom lip pucker and then that daft smile.
> 
> ...




"The time has come for the Australian Labor Party to ...  JUst LIck its own ARse"


----------



## dutchie (24 April 2012)

sails said:


> GG - wouldn't Shorten be nipping at Rudd's heels for the leadership?




He doesn't even pass his own test!

(see this thread -            Is Shorten PM material?  )


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (25 May 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I am reliably informed from the palace of the Brissie King that the quest for leadership of what is left of the Australian Labor Federal Caucus, is,  officially again,  ON.
> 
> gg




It is on again, I have been told, and the ALP are all a splutter.

This bush ballad has some more legs.

He has decided to have another go.

Interesting times.

Gillard will be told to move soon.

gg


----------



## dutchie (25 May 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> It is on again, I have been told, and the ALP are all a splutter.
> 
> This bush ballad has some more legs.
> 
> ...





What.... they want to pass the baton on from one loser to another loser - brilliant!


----------



## Logique (25 May 2012)

The story is credible for a simple reason, the current PM and her union mates are the best asset the Coalition have.  

It will be interesting to see if the sheltered workshop, otherwise known as the kitchen cabinet, are as good as their word, and move en masse to the backbench. I bet they don't, stuck fast to the public teat all of them.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (25 May 2012)

It is almost a done deal, but there is one big problem.

Everyone in the ALP hates little Kev with such a blue white hate, that when it actually comes to getting the putsch up and going, the comrades just run for cover, get pissed or stoned, and hide.

They can run, but they cannot hide.

I am down in Sydney looking to run a distressed shop at Circular Quay, presently in the hands of a previously advantaged family. Life ain't fair.

I am off soon over to Sussex St. to commiserate with them over the Origin loss.

I will keep ASF posted.

gg


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (25 May 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> It is almost a done deal, but there is one big problem.
> 
> Everyone in the ALP hates little Kev with such a blue white hate, that when it actually comes to getting the putsch up and going, the comrades just run for cover, get pissed or stoned, and hide.
> 
> ...




A bit pissed 
scuse moi
At the Ship In near the Quay.

Consensus is the Party is *****d.

I do not agree. It must have a price. Keynes said so.

Off to Star.

gg


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (27 May 2012)

I have spoken to Joel this evening, and the contest is on.

Hail the next Leader of the ALP, Kevin Rudd 012.

gg


----------



## noco (27 May 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I have spoken to Joel this evening, and the contest is on.
> 
> Hail the next Leader of the ALP, Kevin Rudd 012.
> 
> gg




Out of the frying pan and into the fire!!!!!!!

Expect more turmoil!!!!!

Gillard gone.
Sawn gone.
Roxon gone.
Combett gone.
Bourke gone.
No Mid Night oil.
Albo looks safe with his brown nose.

Gawd GG, the house on the hill won't be the same.


----------



## noco (27 May 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I have spoken to Joel this evening, and the contest is on.
> 
> Hail the next Leader of the ALP, Kevin Rudd 012.
> 
> gg




GG, looks you are on the money but whether Joel can accumulate the shifting numbers remains to be seen.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...vin-rudd-reports/story-fn59niix-1226368031543


----------



## Calliope (27 May 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I have spoken to Joel this evening, and the contest is on.
> 
> Hail the next Leader of the ALP, Kevin Rudd 012.
> 
> gg




I can remember when you hailed Sarah Palin as Presidential materiaL


----------



## joea (27 May 2012)

Rudd has firmed 40 cents to $2 overnight. Gillard at $2.40.
I think we may see something just prior to their break.
I think the caucus will just make the decision up front.
joea


----------



## MrBurns (27 May 2012)

joea said:


> Rudd has firmed 40 cents to $2 overnight. Gillard at $2.40.
> I think we may see something just prior to their break.
> I think the caucus will just make the decision up front.
> joea




If Rudd gets in he better ditch the Carbon Tax immediately and go straight to an election.


----------



## noco (27 May 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I have spoken to Joel this evening, and the contest is on.
> 
> Hail the next Leader of the ALP, Kevin Rudd 012.
> 
> gg




GG, this is just another diversion to the heat off Thommo.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (27 May 2012)

noco said:


> GG, this is just another diversion to the heat off Thommo.




I shared a saveloi with the Little Lieder in Lederhosen In Exhale this afternoon, and he is as deluded as ever, and planning a return to the Prime Ministership.

The poor ALP caucus are between a rock and a hard place. If they hadn't so stuffed up Howard's inheritance, one could almost feel sorry for them.

Kev 012 is as perky as ever, he even called me " friend ".

gg


----------



## drsmith (28 August 2012)

I had to read this a few times to make sure I was reading it right.



> Mr Rudd described Mr Abbott as "the most extreme right-wing leader" in Liberal Party history and said *he did not have the temperament required for the highest office in the land.*




I suppose uncle Kev would know.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/br...atable-says-rudd/story-e6frf7kf-1226459832718

My bolds.


----------



## sptrawler (28 August 2012)

drsmith said:


> I had to read this a few times to make sure I was reading it right.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I suppose Kev is just lining himself up for the backlash as all the labor plebs have to explain why they were talking crap. When they were explaining why the carbon tax had to be so high, why we are grovelling to the greens, why we can't adopt the Pacific Solution.
Now a week later Gillard says get over it you **** heads, do as your told, you are plebs, just shut up 
I'm in charge. 
Jeez someone has to have their nose out of joint, not all of them can have no principles, can they?


----------



## drsmith (6 September 2012)

Poor Kev has been reduced to running Queensland, at least in his own mind.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-06/rudd-warns-newman-could-suffer-his-fate/4247070


----------



## Julia (6 September 2012)

He was also out with some other comment about something.  (Obviously I was so impressed with what it was that I now have no idea what he was on about.)

He seems to be very clearly putting himself 'out there', so no one will overlook his panting candidacy for the top job once again.
A bit pathetic really.


----------



## drsmith (6 September 2012)

Julia said:


> He seems to be very clearly putting himself 'out there', so no one will overlook his panting candidacy for the top job once again.



Look at meee........


----------



## drsmith (18 September 2012)

With Labor improving in the polls, what's Kevvie up to now ?

http://video.theaustralian.com.au/2280560726/Kevin-Rudds-impromptu-press-conference


----------



## Julia (18 September 2012)

drsmith said:


> With Labor improving in the polls, what's Kevvie up to now ?
> 
> http://video.theaustralian.com.au/2280560726/Kevin-Rudds-impromptu-press-conference




Another link to something only available to subscribers.
This was covered in "PM" this evening.  Our Kev is just so transparent.  He just can't give up.


----------



## drsmith (18 September 2012)

Julia said:


> Another link to something only available to subscribers.



For me, that played direct from the link. No need even to do a Google news search of the headline.

Perhaps he's being a team player to the extent he thinks it might roll Tony Abbott as opposition leader in the hope he can then roll Julia Gillard as PM and fight an election against Malcolm Turnbull. This somewhat obscure possibility was raised on Insiders on Sunday.


----------



## Julia (18 September 2012)

I suppose that's possible.  Doesn't seem characteristic of him though.
It struck me more as the lonely, pretty irrelevant ex PM, desperately trying to ensure he's still noticed.


----------



## young-gun (18 September 2012)

drsmith said:


> For me, that played direct from the link. No need even to do a Google news search of the headline.
> 
> Perhaps he's being a team player to the extent he thinks it might roll Tony Abbott as opposition leader in the hope he can then roll Julia Gillard as PM and fight an election against Malcolm Turnbull. This somewhat obscure possibility was raised on Insiders on Sunday.




If turnbull was running I may actually put pen to paper at the next election. Can't help but feel as though Rudd's all washed up.


----------



## IFocus (18 September 2012)

young-gun said:


> If turnbull was running I may actually put pen to paper at the next election. Can't help but feel as though Rudd's all washed up.




In politics no matter what the party factions count for leaders and Rudd has no factional support, the fact Gillard is still leader after such a woe full term so far is testament to Rudd never getting back as leader of the Labor Parliamentary party.

The only way for Rudd is to do a John Howard and build a base with the factions some thing I don't think is possible.


----------



## sptrawler (18 September 2012)

IMO, Kevs been @itch slapped into oblivion. 
All the goon show wants now, is Tony to lose support and then this idiotic government can continue on their merry way.
It's chardonay socialism all round, who cares as long as the pension adds up.


----------



## Julia (2 October 2012)

What is going on with Kevin Rudd?  He is placing himself more and more in the public spotlight, sending out news releases which pretty much guarantee that the media recipient will follow up by interviewing him.

If Julia Gillard were still falling in the polls, I could see some logic in him pushing himself forward, but - especially given the bollocking half his colleagues delivered about him a few months ago - there seems no chance of him ever becoming PM again.  Half the front bench would leave if it were to happen.

Is he coveting the position of Ambassador to the UN?  I don't even know if such a position exists?  Perhaps the next Australian representative in Washington?

I'd be interested in what others think he's up to.


----------



## sptrawler (2 October 2012)

The country's going into recession, Labor will get thrown out and internal polling will already show it. 
Kev is just keeping his picture in the news, someones got to take over when Julia gets thrown out. I think Bowen is the dark horse, he at least seems to have a modicum of decency.


----------



## dutchie (3 October 2012)

Julia said:


> What is going on with Kevin Rudd?  He is placing himself more and more in the public spotlight, sending out news releases which pretty much guarantee that the media recipient will follow up by interviewing him.
> 
> If Julia Gillard were still falling in the polls, I could see some logic in him pushing himself forward, but - especially given the bollocking half his colleagues delivered about him a few months ago - there seems no chance of him ever becoming PM again.  Half the front bench would leave if it were to happen.
> 
> ...




I think your right he's just happy because he's going to the UN.

He will be able to say "I think what we all suffer from is absolute delusions of grandeur" all day in the halls of the UN. He will be in his element.


----------



## DocK (3 October 2012)

I picked up the _Women's Weekly _ at the hairdressers last week - couldn't say whether it was the most recent issue, but there was a puff piece on Jessica Rudd's new baby and the proud grandparents. 




> HE is not supposed to be talking about a comeback, but former prime minister Kevin Rudd has given an interview in which he opens up about wanting to shape Australia's future well into the next decade.
> Mr Rudd, who unsuccessfully challenged Julia Gillard for the Labor leadership in February, has told the Australian Women's Weekly that shaping the nation - which is somewhat difficult to do from the backbench - is "part of who I am, and you gotta be who you are".
> 
> Mr Rudd's decision to grant an interview to the magazine, which hasn't hit the streets yet, is causing ructions in Canberra, where leadership speculation is again roiling.




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/shaping-nation-part-of-who-i-am-says-kevin-rudd/story-fn59niix-1226431309527
http://aww.ninemsn.com.au/news/newsstories/8502939/rudd-ready-to-shape-the-nation


----------



## drsmith (23 November 2012)

The moment Kevin Rudd has been waiting for may have just arrived.


----------



## dutchie (23 November 2012)

Kevin Rudd as PM would be worse for Australia than letting Julia Gillard continue in the role.


----------



## noco (23 November 2012)

drsmith said:


> The moment Kevin Rudd has been waiting for may have just arrived.




He is like a Chesshire cat(I think that is how you spell it) , grinning from ear to ear and rubbing his hands together with glee.


----------



## Logique (23 November 2012)

With an election coming up, and the polls against them, the caucus has to be thinking about it.



> http://www.enotes.com/shakespeare-quotes/more-sinned-against-than-sinning
> 
> These dreadful summoners grace. I am a man
> More sinn'd against than sinning.
> ...


----------



## qldfrog (23 November 2012)

dutchie said:


> Kevin Rudd as PM would be worse for Australia than letting Julia Gillard continue in the role.



would it?
it is pretty hard to do worse than our current PM: a puppet sold to both unions (Hi Shorten...) and big business (BHP /RIO cf the so call mining tax who will never bring a cent but will hurt junior (miners) and favor the 3 big players);
At least Rudd, whether you agree or not with his ideas (I do not) had some belief and vision.
I prefer that to a liar puppet involved in matters who would send you or I in jail.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (16 December 2012)

One of my contacts who attended Matins this morning, and is now back in the safety of the public bar, tells me that amongst the Holy Rollers of an Anglican persuasion, the talk is of the Little Corporal, on the phones planning another tilt at leadership of the ALP.

gg


----------



## drsmith (16 December 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> One of my contacts who attended Matins this morning, and is now back in the safety of the public bar, tells me that amongst the Holy Rollers of an Anglican persuasion, the talk is of the Little Corporal, on the phones planning another tilt at leadership of the ALP.
> 
> gg



I still feel the political assasination will come before the next election, unless Julia Gillard senses it and goes for a snap early poll.

As for who replaces her, that's more debatable. Labor has buried Kev very deep and so might go for a fresh face. Well, as fresh as they can offer anyway.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (11 January 2013)

> Another plus for Tony, my contacts on the Sunshine Coast tell me, is that Kevin Rudd is gearing up for his last tilt at Julia in February. He is a bit like Dracula, always ready to rear up again when one least expects.
> 
> gg




Shortly after I posted the above on the Tony Abbott thread today, Kevin Rudd announced he felt the dole needed to be increased and that he did not agree with Macklin's view on poverty stricken folk.

One hour after *that*, Macklin says she's sorry !!

Definitely a challenge to Gillard coming.

gg


----------



## MrBurns (11 January 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Shortly after I posted the above on the Tony Abbott thread today, Kevin Rudd announced he felt the dole needed to be increased and that he did not agree with Macklin's view on poverty stricken folk.
> 
> One hour after *that*, Macklin says she's sorry !!
> 
> ...




Would be such poetic justice if he pulled it off.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (11 January 2013)

MrBurns said:


> Would be such poetic justice if he pulled it off.




He will have the numbers.

gg


----------



## MrBurns (11 January 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> He will have the numbers.
> 
> gg




I'm telling you if he did it would be a moment to savour almost as much as the election itself.

I must get an extra bottle of Laphroaig in just in case.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (11 January 2013)

MrBurns said:


> I'm telling you if he did it would be a moment to savour almost as much as the election itself.
> 
> I must get an extra bottle of Laphroaig in just in case.




It will be an interesting tussle, Burnsie, and you may need a crate of Laphroaig rather than a bottle.

I may even start watching the ABC and listening to ABC Radio National again, the more to enjoy it all.

The comrades in caucus will be in receipt of "secret polling" in nine days time, which may not be good for Gillard after the Macklin statement against our poor, and Brendan O'Connor's slur on Tony Abbott's volunteering.

So I doubt if a move will be made by Rudd before February.

gg


----------



## Julia (11 January 2013)

MrBurns said:


> Would be such poetic justice if he pulled it off.



Think twice before relishing such a prospect.
The sympathy vote in a federal election for Rudd would be huge.
Add that to the dislike many voters have for Mr Abbott, and you will be much more likely to see a return of the ALP than if Gillard remains in place.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (11 January 2013)

Julia said:


> Think twice before relishing such a prospect.
> The sympathy vote in a federal election for Rudd would be huge.
> Add that to the dislike many voters have for Mr Abbott, and you will be much more likely to see a return of the ALP than if Gillard remains in place.




Remember though Julia.

Mr.Abbott has seen Mr.Rudd off comprehensively once already.

Ms.Gillard has never achieved that. 

It will answer many of the questions doubters have about Tony Abbott.

gg


----------



## MrBurns (11 January 2013)

Just having a re think, if Rudd takes over he'll lose then Gillard can say she didnt lose the election so probably better is she loses the election first then Rudd take over.

She wouldnt stay opposition leader anyway, she'll be off into the sunset with her huge pension.


----------



## sails (11 January 2013)

Julia said:


> Think twice before relishing such a prospect.
> The sympathy vote in a federal election for Rudd would be huge.
> Add that to the dislike many voters have for Mr Abbott, and you will be much more likely to see a return of the ALP than if Gillard remains in place.




Yes, I agree with you, Julia.  I think the country has a far better chance of teaching this labor government a stern lesson if Gillard stays at the helm. 

The sheer relief to have Gillard gone would give Rudd a huge boost, imo.  He wasn't popular when she knifed him, but then it seems she turned out worse, much worse  - so people would feel they were in better hands if Rudd returned.  He wasn't the one who lied about carbon tax either.


----------



## Julia (11 January 2013)

Meantime, Ms Gillard is not missing a single opportunity.
Today she soberly announced the Sexual Abuse Royal Commission, dressed perfectly in classical style with pearls and a concerned expression.  

Then she called a press conference to offer her condolences to the family of the teenager who died as a result of consuming methanol (I think? - some foreign substance anyway) with his alcohol in Bali, describing it as a tragedy.

A couple of days ago she was swanning around Tassie looking at the fires.

Not a word from anyone about her courting publicity.
But Mr Abbott actually continues with a voluntary activity that he engages in all year round, and is condemned for "a stunt".

PS  I support the Royal Commission because it will cause a lot of people to feel better.  There will be years of dreadful stories where we will all wring our hands in horror.
In terms of it actually achieving anything, that's quite a different matter imo.  To suggest it's window dressing might be a little harsh.


----------



## MrBurns (11 January 2013)

Julia said:


> Meantime, Ms Gillard is not missing a single opportunity.
> Today she soberly announced the Sexual Abuse Royal Commission, dressed perfectly in classical style with pearls and a concerned expression.
> 
> Then she called a press conference to offer her condolences to the family of the teenager who died as a result of consuming methanol (I think? - some foreign substance anyway) with his alcohol in Bali, describing it as a tragedy.
> ...




I hope she is as transparent to the general public as she is to us, I tend to think so.


----------



## noco (12 January 2013)

MrBurns said:


> Just having a re think, if Rudd takes over he'll lose then Gillard can say she didnt lose the election so probably better is she loses the election first then Rudd take over.
> 
> She wouldnt stay opposition leader anyway, she'll be off into the sunset with her huge pension.




Yes, she might enjoy her pension behind bars if they ever have a Royal Commission into the union movement. She just might get caught up in the web.

I believe she will be well aware of Rudd's pending challenge and may go to the polls early just to spite her face.. If she calls an election before Rudd makes his challenge, we may not see her in the next sitting of parliament.


----------



## sptrawler (12 January 2013)

Julia said:


> Meantime, Ms Gillard is not missing a single opportunity.
> Today she soberly announced the Sexual Abuse Royal Commission, dressed perfectly in classical style with pearls and a concerned expression.
> 
> Then she called a press conference to offer her condolences to the family of the teenager who died as a result of consuming methanol (I think? - some foreign substance anyway) with his alcohol in Bali, describing it as a tragedy.
> ...




Maybe she could throw in a Royal Commission into union curruption, just to clear the air, maybe terms of reference could encompass superannuation. Hey it's only a suggestion.:1zhelp:


----------



## noco (12 January 2013)

noco said:


> Yes, she might enjoy her pension behind bars if they ever have a Royal Commission into the union movement. She just might get caught up in the web.
> 
> I believe she will be well aware of Rudd's pending challenge and may go to the polls early just to spite her face.. If she calls an election before Rudd makes his challenge, we may not see her in the next sitting of parliament.




This link may reinforce the chance of an early election. Just maybe March!!!!!!!!!!


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...race-of-her-life/story-e6frg7eo-1226551496738


----------



## drsmith (12 January 2013)

noco said:


> This link may reinforce the chance of an early election. Just maybe March!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...race-of-her-life/story-e6frg7eo-1226551496738



The race for Labor now is to move against Julia Gillard with either Kevin Rudd or Bill Shorten before she races the party to annihilation at an early election.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (12 January 2013)

noco said:


> This link may reinforce the chance of an early election. Just maybe March!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...race-of-her-life/story-e6frg7eo-1226551496738




+1

gg


----------



## qldfrog (12 January 2013)

wouldn't that whole set be interesting if this was not in the meantime bringing this country down the abyss.
Anyone but Gillard  (or Abbott) is the general feeling.
However good/bright whatever Tony might be , he is not liked; he already lead the  opposition to defeat once, could he please move on at least for the country and let liberals have a clear win instead of possibly another loss;
KR will come back: I disagree with a lot of his policies but he has at least some respect from me and is not a corrupt puppet in the hands of unions.
He might have a chance 
More scared by Shorten  actually, as his ego is bigger than JG and he is actually smart....


----------



## Logique (12 January 2013)

drsmith said:


> The race for Labor now is to move against Julia Gillard with either Kevin Rudd or Bill Shorten before she races the party to annihilation at an early election.



Not far wrong Doctor. Nervous backbenchers, especially in the marginals.  It would be interesting to see who would be deputy leader under this scenario, i.e. would they make Shorten the deputy, or look to a (these days) more conventional approach, by making Roxon or Plibersek the deputy.

One thing I do know, Hawke is a patron of the current PM, and she'll go about as easily as he did. Paul Keating made repeated caucus challenges on the PM, until finally Hawke's PM'ship became untenable.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (31 January 2013)

Kevin Rudd's shadow looms large over the ALP.

My contacts in "Brissie" tell me that the Little Emperor is none too happy that he has been outflanked by Julia Gillard, Wayne Swan and Bill Shorten in the announcement of an election.

Pundits tell me that destroying Rudd's chances of a return to leadership, is the only rational explanation for such a ****-eyed announcement.

His troops are rallying, with an important conference call underway as I post.

One needs to strike early and deep, if one feels aggrieved.

Watch this space.

For Kevin Rudd is a poisoned dwarf personified.

It is, as Julia Gillard famously says much too frequently, "on".

And the prize is victory for the ALP.

gg


----------



## noco (4 February 2013)

Has any one noticed how much weight our Kevin has added lately.

I think he has taken up what Joe has lost.


----------



## MrBurns (4 February 2013)

noco said:


> Has any one noticed how much weight our Kevin has added lately.
> 
> I think he has taken up what Joe has lost.




Living off the fat of the taxpayer.


----------



## drsmith (21 March 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Kevin Rudd's shadow looms large over the ALP.



Tony Windsor and Rob Oakeshott have given his prospects a leg up.

He now looms large over the country, again.


----------



## Whiskers (22 March 2013)

Lots of comment and speculation about todays, or more particularly the last week or so's events, but I'll comment here where I think it's all going to end.

My judjement is most of the commentators can't see more than one step ahead at a time. 

As I recall the ball got rolling by a couple of very experienced jurno's who wrote an article that copped heaps of scorn, but which they stood by. That lead to a degree of panic in the ALP and uncertainty about what was happening. Some believed Rudd was driving it all... maybe to some extent, but at a good arms length. 

Crean's flip flopping and contradictions was evident of someone trying to jump to a winning ship again in a panic. Despite him saying he was acting in the best interests of the ALP by trying to settle the leadership issue, he was manipulated or more precisely panicked into changing allegiances again, and his credability is now shot.

Rudd on the other hand played a clever hand not contesting the leadership... ie standing by his earlier announcement not to challenge unless the leadership became vacant and he had the overwhelming support of caucus. Caucus is still paralyised by faction fighting, the last gasp of the remnents of the old guard who have been tossed out of NSW in particular, but also Vic, Qld and now WA. 

I think Rudd, once stung (by being encouraged to challenge once before) is twice wise... and took the high moral ground, sticking firmly to his word and not being goaded into a challenge. Rudd came out with credability stronger at the expense of the 'faceless men' and Gillard who surcombe to the pressure to call a spill. 

The polls will get worse and the cracks will widen again before the election. That's when Rudd will get what he demands... that enough rational heads in the ALP will tap Gillard on the shoulder. The faction bosses wont. They are blinded by their own ego and self interests and will lead the federal ALP to the same oblivion as has happened in the states.

It's a long shot for Rudd, but I believe he has figured this is the only way he and Labor can win the next election... to demonstrate to the public that he is no ones puppet and he can beat the 'faceless men'.

Stage one accumplished... he has come up shiney (despite some short sighted commentry) and Gillard is further dented. She is tough as old boots, but an old boot none the less. 

Stage two... wait for a few weeks of more bad polls, despite some new attempted vote winning lures.


----------



## Logique (22 March 2013)

Good analysis Whiskers.  I think Rudd played a smart hand yesterday.


----------



## dutchie (22 March 2013)

Whiskers said:


> Lots of comment and speculation about todays, or more particularly the last week or so's events, but I'll comment here where I think it's all going to end.................
> 
> 
> Stage two... wait for a few weeks of more bad polls, despite some new attempted vote winning lures.






Logique said:


> Good analysis Whiskers.  I think Rudd played a smart hand yesterday.




I think Rudd has now finally put himself out of the picture. He is finished.

He might as well go and see if Therese will give him a job.

Gillard is not tough just incompetent.

Bring on an early vote  - "its the right thing to do"


----------



## noco (22 March 2013)

Logique said:


> Good analysis Whiskers.  I think Rudd played a smart hand yesterday.




+1. I agree. He did not challenge as he was waiting for the faceless men to tell Gillard to go and in doing so would have made it easy for Rudd.

I am sure Rudd is enjoying watching Gillard self destruct and is looking for revenge.


----------



## MrBurns (22 March 2013)

noco said:


> +1. I agree. He did not challenge as he was waiting for the faceless men to tell Gillard to go and in doing so would have made it easy for Rudd.
> 
> I am sure Rudd is enjoying watching Gillard self destruct and is looking for revenge.




He didn't have to challenge the position was open to nominate for, he wimped it, but you just have to look at him, how would anyone expect anything else. He's finished.


----------



## sptrawler (22 March 2013)

Even if Rudd does take over the leadership, it will be an absolute joke.
With Rudd followers currently stepping down and Gillard followers being promoted. 
How do you think it will look if Rudd takes over and the musical chairs starts up yet again.
The whole ministry is looking looking like the 'magic roundabout'. Just shows the public how any idiot can be in charge of a portfolio.
Then again Swan has held the treasurers position for awhile.
Moral must be at an all time low with Gillard, Swan and Conroy, whipping them into a conga line.


----------



## Whiskers (22 March 2013)

MrBurns said:


> He didn't have to challenge the position was open to nominate for, he wimped it, but you just have to look at him, how would anyone expect anything else. He's finished.




Take a look at this from the disenfranchised labor and swing voter perspective. Has he not stood for what they are looking for in a leader? Secondly, by not nominating when Gillard threw down the gauntlet, before he had the ' overwhelming support of the party he has honored his word not to challenge... at the expense of the Gillard camp who panicked into damage mitigation mode.



sptrawler said:


> Even if Rudd does take over the leadership, it will be an absolute joke.
> With Rudd followers currently stepping down and Gillard followers being promoted.
> How do you think it will look if Rudd takes over and the musical chairs starts up yet again.




What are the key words Rudd used that will determine when he nominates for leader again? The answer is very poignant to his strategy and the sentiment behind his voter support.

...

Why does Rudd have so much general voter support for PM compared to Gillard, Abbot and any other prospective leader?

I suspect the main reason is he is not, or at least far less,  influenced by unions, factions, lobby groups etc.

He has many flaws, but I'm thinking the voting public believes they will have better representation with an 'own man' like Rudd, who they think will now be more responsive to change his mind on a matter under public pressure, than faction/lobby sponsered leaders who have their own adgenda and selfrightiously dictate what is best for us.

While Abbot has enjoyed a pretty stable time as opposition leader, I think the public is mindefull that despite developing into quite a strong leader he still sufferes from the legacy of chief head kicker for Howard and while experiencing good loyalty atm, he also is far from an overwhelming first choice by his party with a degree of factionalism and lobby support at play there also.

Bottom line... my analysis suggests the Australian voters are expressing a desire for a PM and government with higher integrity and not appointed by or maliable by factions, corruption and lobby pressure. Rudd  stands out against that criteria.

There are a lot of marginal labor members who still toe the line for Gillard and the faction, corruption status quo. The question is come closer to election day, will they take a pragmatic position to stay in government or go down with a sinking corrupt, selfrightious ship like the states and their support base to spite Rudd and the overwhelming wishes of the voting public!?

One of two things will happen... Gillard will be tapped on the shoulder and decide to go before the election. That's possible, but unlikely without some other catalyst... and no doubt one will come. 

Gillard dogedly stays put and Labor is decimated and or there is another hung parliament in September with insufficient greens and independents to give Labor the numbers. That will be the ultimate foundation for Rudd to get what he demands... the annihilation of the 'faceless men'.


----------



## dutchie (22 March 2013)

We can safely say that Rudd started as a dud and is finished as a dud.

In six months time we will be able to say the same thing about Gillard.





Bring on an early election - "its the right thing to do"


----------



## Whiskers (22 March 2013)

dutchie said:


> We can safely say that Rudd started as a dud and is finished as a dud.
> 
> In six months time we will be able to say the same thing about Gillard.




The customer is always right, as they say... or in this case, the voter. 

The Rudd. Gillard government 'amalgam' was certainly a toxic dud, but the voting public doesn't seem to extend that judgement to Rudd personally as leader. 



> Bring on an early election - "its the right thing to do"




No arguement there... but sometimes you just have to accept 'whatever will be will be' regardless of your own personal wishes or judgement, and make the most of what you can change or affect in the meantime. That is something Abbott and Rudd are both doing quite well atm.

It is somewhat ironic that that both their efforts at undermining Gillard are benefiting each other to a large extent atm. The test will be who can make the most of it all by September. I suspect Rudd or at least his supporters have another catalyst to fire off soon. 

Btw, I wouldn't read the resignation of Rudd supporters so much as disenchantment with Rudd, but more disenchantment with Gillard. It's a nice guise to further distabalise the Gillard leadership after the panicked spill. Note, they may have resigned their portfolios, but I suspect still favor Rudd over Gillard and will come back into the fold with accolades once Rudds grand plan materalises.


----------



## Julia (22 March 2013)

> UPDATE 12.42 More Kevin Rudd backer tipped to go after the former PM announced he would never again lead the Labor party.
> 
> Mental Health minister Mark Butler and Human Services Minister Kim Carr - both strong Rudd backers - have reportedly been told they cannot be 'servant of two masters', News Ltd reports.
> 
> ...




It will be interesting to see how Rudd's numbers come up in the next poll (assuming the polling companies continue to ask the question despite the above).  
I can't see his popularity as anything other than a reflection of the extreme public distaste for Ms Gillard, plus the sympathy factor for how he was knifed.

I acknowledge my bias against him (just can't stand the bloke) but would be surprised if too many people really believe his most recent action of not standing was really born out of the moral highground of keeping his word not to challenge, rather than the reality that he didn't actually have the numbers.
Plus why on earth would anyone want the current leadership of such a dysfunctional party?  The poisoned chalice of being in charge when they lose?  Of course he wouldn't put himself in such a position.


----------



## Whiskers (22 March 2013)

Julia said:


> ... why on earth would anyone want the current leadership of such a dysfunctional party?  The poisoned chalice of being in charge when they lose?  Of course he wouldn't put himself in such a position.




Just seen Rudds speech on the heels of the others today. Interestingly, no great sadness in any of the resignations, no anger or bitterness... actually they all seemed to be very cool, even smiling with their decision and comments. Quite orchestrated even in their request for the electorate to be kind to each other and look after Bowen as a future leader. 

Rudds statement that " there are now no circumstances under which he would return to the Labor leadership", would necessairly turn more voters off voting for labor and plunge the polls further... assuming a few hung in for labor hoping he will return. Strategically, a strong move to depose Gillard, despite his followers combined plea to stand behind their leader. 

What if other Rudd supporters (or at least non Gillard activasts) refuse promotion to cabinet or worse still, aren't invited? Catastropic disaster for Labor surely! 

I'm sure Rudd would be forgiven for not forseeing a Gillard resignation from the leadership and her seat in parliament as the situation worsens, (cough, cough) to be invited to stand again, unopposed .


----------



## drsmith (22 March 2013)

Whiskers said:


> It's a long shot for Rudd, but I believe he has figured this is the only way he and Labor can win the next election... to demonstrate to the public that he is no ones puppet and he can beat the 'faceless men'.
> 
> Stage one accumplished... he has come up shiney (despite some short sighted commentry) and Gillard is further dented. She is tough as old boots, but an old boot none the less.
> 
> Stage two... wait for a few weeks of more bad polls, despite some new attempted vote winning lures.



Rudd's message in this is that he can stick by his word, an interesting comparison in relation Gillard. If a vast majority come to him begging, a Jon Howard with the GST type of reversal is not out of the question.

I think though that he's delusional though if he thinks he can lead Labor to electoral victory. There's way to much damage for that. 

Labor itself would be far better off without both Rudd and Gillard and the union hacks behind the latter. That's what the party as a whole needs to recognise.


----------



## Julia (22 March 2013)

If we look forward to the wash up after the election, do we perhaps have the makings of a decent Labor Party with Chris Bowen, Martin Ferguson, Kim Carr, Richard Marles, Joel Fitzgibbon, all of whom seem to be pretty conscientious and genuine people, and a serious alternative to the Coalition, especially considering the unpopularity of Mr Abbott?

If Gillard loses, as almost certainly she will, I wouldn't have thought she has the personality to retire to the back bench, and will rather exit politics.  Ditto Wayne Swan, and the dreaded Conroy.

What Rudd will do is anyone's guess.


----------



## drsmith (22 March 2013)

Julia said:


> What Rudd will do is anyone's guess.



If he's happy to lead Labor in opposition, he's a complete fruitcake.


----------



## Logique (23 March 2013)

Julia said:


> ..If Gillard loses, as almost certainly she will, I wouldn't have thought she has the personality to retire to the back bench, and will rather exit politics..



There's a world of quango's and lobby groups out there for her. She's already started working on this, there'll be more invites for dinner with the PM.  Board memberships (shudder), diplomatic posts (shudder).

It's awkward for Rudd, what is there left to do. The hope of being PM again looks gone. He'll rekindle his ambitions at the UN I guess.


----------



## moXJO (23 March 2013)

Were Rudd and his supporters setup. Rudd backers have pretty much been cleared out.
	
	



```

```


----------



## drsmith (23 March 2013)

moXJO said:


> Were Rudd and his supporters setup. Rudd backers have pretty much been cleared out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It will be interesting to see what happens to Simon Crean in the month ahead.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...the-election-already-lost-20130322-2glcv.html


----------



## dutchie (23 March 2013)

Rudd is so much like Gillard - just interested in themselves.

What a hypocritical weasel.

I feel sorry for Crean and Ferguson - giving up their careers for these two.

The Labor party is shot to pieces. It will be in their own interests to lose power so that they can start rebuilding.


----------



## MrBurns (23 March 2013)

dutchie said:


> Rudd is so much like Gillard - just interested in themselves.
> 
> What a hypocritical weasel.
> 
> ...




Think of the poor trusting Labor supporters who looked at Rudd as the saviour, must have been a million of them at least from the polls...........







> hypocritical weasel



 exactly.


----------



## Julia (23 March 2013)

moXJO said:


> Were Rudd and his supporters setup. Rudd backers have pretty much been cleared out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Seems like it, doesn't it.  This was suggested yesterday by one of the many commentators, i.e. that Crean agreed to be the sacrificial lamb.  If this was indeed the strategy, it has worked well for Gillard.  She was incredibly cool throughout.



dutchie said:


> I feel sorry for Crean and Ferguson - giving up their careers for these two.



Agree.  What talent there was in the party is now sitting on the back bench.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (23 March 2013)

*Re: Kevin Rudd*

Kevin Rudd has lost any pretence of statesmanship, leadership or loyalty to the ALP.

Simon Crean asserts that Rudd knew of Crean's call for a spill on Julia Gillard's leadership.



> Sacked minister Simon Crean, who sparked Labor's leadership crisis this week, says Kevin Rudd's camp had fully endorsed his intervention to demand the Prime Minister call a spill.
> His account directly contradicts the version of Mr Rudd, who on Friday said he had ''not expected the spontaneous combustion of Mr Crean's'' demand for a ballot, and promised he would never again seek the leadership.
> Mr Rudd's last-minute decision to back out of a challenge has led to bitter recriminations among his supporters, with Mr Crean describing Mr Rudd's key support group as ''disorganised, unbelievable and shameless''.
> 
> ...




I doubt if Rudd will even hold his seat in Griffith at the September Federal election after this display of cretinous inept litany lies.

gg


----------



## drsmith (23 March 2013)

*Re: Kevin Rudd*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> Simon Crean asserts that Rudd knew of Crean's call for a spill on Julia Gillard's leadership.



The answers about Simon's loyalties will become clearer if/when Julia Gillard restores him to the front bench.

In my view, he either wanted the leadership issue simply resolved (as he said) or was acting for team Gillard. He definitely wasn't acting for Kevin Rudd.


----------



## tinhat (23 March 2013)

To an outsider who doesn't really pay much attention to the government and the players, it does look as though it has imploded this weekend. Ferguson, Crean, Bowen and a few others (whips and secretaries) are all gone or about to go.

Don't care much about Kerry Carr, his industry policy was dreadful. But then Howard started the rot later in his government which labour and Carr continued in terms of giving in to industry rent seeking and vote buying popularism. (At some stage the ghost of Black Jack McEwen must have found his way into the corridors of the new parliament house).

Although I argue that people place far too much importance on government, a fallacy fuelled by politics as entertainment by the media, this lame duck government is going to be a drag on the market until the election.


----------



## DB008 (23 March 2013)

Julia said:


> What talent there was in the party is now sitting on the back bench.




And just goes to show that the pollies are more interested in their own ego's/power trips, than running the country and really doing what they got voted in for.


----------



## Smurf1976 (23 March 2013)

One thing all this does do is highlight the value of the states. Whilst it is often argued that we don't need three levels of government, let's face reality. The states are the only ones doing any actual governing of significance at the moment.

Australian government - basically it's become paralysed and is ineffective.

Local government - there are exceptions but most are too concerned about what colour the fence is or how high the trees are to be worried about any issues of real significance.

Which leaves the states as the only thing we have which resembles an actual government at the moment. Sure, there is a cost to having multiple layers of government but I'm starting to consider that in the context of it being insurance rather than waste.


----------



## drsmith (23 March 2013)

Does anyone have any idea what Michael Smith in on about in the following video,



http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2013/03/what-happened/comments/page/2/#comments


----------



## tinhat (23 March 2013)

DB008 said:


> And just goes to show that the pollies are more interested in their own ego's/power trips, than running the country and really doing what they got voted in for.




Wow, have you just discovered that people eat muesli for breakfast too?


----------



## DB008 (24 March 2013)

tinhat said:


> Wow, have you just discovered that people eat muesli for breakfast too?




Wow. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## Julia (24 March 2013)

In today's Galaxy poll - in answer to the question "How would you describe Kevin Rudd in the leadership spill?" - 55% said he had been 'honourable and true to his word'.

His fans still refuse to recognise that he just didn't have the numbers, and are happy to leave him on the moral high ground.


----------



## Calliope (24 March 2013)

This morning Bolt tried to draw Tony Abbott out on how he could put his expected large majority in the September election to good use by being a little daring. Bolt was interested in how Abbott would pull the unions into line, and what he would do to reduce the numbers of 2 million public servants and 4 million on some form of welfare or pension.

Abbott wimped out. He doesn't want to be seen as courageous. Newman in Queensland made courageous decisions, and the polls show it, but he has two years to make them work.



> Sir Humphrey: If you want to be really sure that the minister doesn't accept it you must say the decision is courageous.
> Bernard: And that’s worse than controversial?
> Sir Humphrey: Controversial only means this will lose you votes, courageous means this will lose you the election



.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (24 March 2013)

*Re: Chicken Kev*



Julia said:


> In today's Galaxy poll - in answer to the question "How would you describe Kevin Rudd in the leadership spill?" - 55% said he had been 'honourable and true to his word'.
> 
> His fans still refuse to recognise that he just didn't have the numbers, and are happy to leave him on the moral high ground.




Agree Julia,

Chicken Kev has many fans among swinging voters.

The moral high ground hopefully for the country will remain firm until an elected Coalition can throw him a fish head such as a European or UN post.

Never has one so talentless and with such a challenged personality risen so high.

It is not for nought that Chicken Kev was known as Dr.Death in the Queensland Public Service and ALP when Wayne Goss was Premier.

Chicken Kev unfortunately in the short term is here to stay. The ALP are welcome to him. He undermined people before, during and after the time he was Prime Minister.

gg


----------



## drsmith (24 March 2013)

*Re: Chicken Kev*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> Never has one so talentless and with such a challenged personality risen so high.



He had enough public charisma for a complacent electorate to remove a tired Howard government and that's it. As time has shown, there was little substance underneath, a lot like Labor's time in office since 2007.


----------



## dutchie (24 March 2013)

drsmith said:


> Does anyone have any idea what Michael Smith in on about in the following video,
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2013/03/what-happened/comments/page/2/#comments





Albanese has got to go (one way or the other) on Monday????


----------



## Miss Hale (24 March 2013)

I think there is still a lot of sympathy for Rudd amongst the general populance because of the way he was knifed in the back.  Even though there is nothing wrong with replacing the leader most people have an expectation that whoever was leader when they voted will be the PM for the full term.  Even though for Rudd to come back it would effectively mean Gillard has to get knifed I think many people would see it as order being restored.


----------



## drsmith (24 March 2013)

dutchie said:


> Albanese has got to go (one way or the other) on Monday????



After this weeks events, I can imagine Albanese singing the words about Rudd.

Michael Smith is certainly on the war path now.



> Immigration Department Client Acquisition Program Daily Marketing Report




http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/201...quisition-program-daily-marketing-report.html


----------



## DB008 (24 March 2013)

Some people I work with a ALP voters. Always have been.

However, there has been change.

They dislike Gillard a lot. Now there is no Rudd, carbon tax introduced, they will vote for the Libs come September.

This isn't an isolated case for me, as a data point, a few friends of mine have said similar things to me. I think that ALP is will be in a world of pain come September, if the Libs don't stuff up between now and then.


----------



## dutchie (25 March 2013)

To be consistent, Gillard must sack the Rudd supporter, Albanese.

She will be a joke if she does not.


----------



## MrBurns (25 March 2013)

dutchie said:


> She will be a joke if she does not.




I think that train left the station ages ago.


----------



## Whiskers (25 March 2013)

dutchie said:


> To be consistent, Gillard must sack the Rudd supporter, Albanese.
> 
> She will be a joke if she does not.




Apparently Albanese got a promotion to regional development and retained infrastructure and transport.

Maybe a tactical choice to help appease the NSW left... or just not game to piss off a larger chunk of the party! Is Albanese still NSW leader of the socialist left faction?


----------



## Bushman (17 June 2013)

Time to dust of this thread ASF. Gillard's desperate gender 'hail mary' has missed the wide receiver, the coach and the stadium itself. As the pollster has said, 'she has alienated men and left women unmoved'. 

Time to go, Julia ... 


'Fewer than one in four men in Australia - 24 per cent - now count themselves as likely Labor voters.

''She has alienated men and left women unmoved,'' summarised Nielsen's John Stirton.

The result? The Prime Minister has so weakened her government that it would suffer a 7 per cent swing against it if an election were held today.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/po...-win-voters-20130616-2ocev.html#ixzz2WQUEXnca '


----------



## sptrawler (17 June 2013)

Bushman said:


> Time to dust of this thread ASF. Gillard's desperate gender 'hail mary' has missed the wide receiver, the coach and the stadium itself. As the pollster has said, 'she has alienated men and left women unmoved'.
> 
> Time to go, Julia ...
> 
> ...




IMO there is no way Gillard will walk, she will just ignore any call for her to stand down.
Rudd is not only sticking the knife in he is twisting it, by asking for Shorten and the faceless men to publicly back him.lol
This is going to be a great mini series, can't wait for the final scene in September, it will be memorable.


----------



## Bushman (17 June 2013)

sptrawler said:


> IMO there is no way Gillard will walk, she will just ignore any call for her to stand down.
> Rudd is not only sticking the knife in he is twisting it, by asking for Shorten and the faceless men to publicly back him.lol
> This is going to be a great mini series, can't wait for the final scene in September, it will be memorable.




Keating got Hawke in the end Sprawler ... the ALP has a stark choice now; political annihilation of a historic scale or 'Uncle Psycho' who might just get them within sight of the 'Mad Monk'. 

It is Abbott after all, not Winston Churchill (or even John Winston Howard). When Abbott speaks, the nation holds its breath but for all the wrong reasons. While Rudd's narcissism borders on the pathological, as with all such men he is also very persuasive and street smart. He will give Tony a run for his money. Gillard will lead them into the wilderness to become the 'lost tribe' of Australian politics. 

Err, *no brainer*. Even that troglodyte Paul Howes must start to see this now.


----------



## drsmith (17 June 2013)

sptrawler said:


> This is going to be a great mini series, can't wait for the final scene in September, it will be memorable.



That could well suffer the same fate as of many of Labor's other commitments.

When Kevin Rudd was asked by the media thin morning on whether JG would still be PM in two weeks, he didn't answer the question directly (ABC).

If Julia Gillard looked over her shoulder now, I suspect she would see Uncle Psychopath approaching from behind with dagger in hand, pointy end forward.


----------



## Calliope (17 June 2013)

drsmith said:


> That could well suffer the same fate as of many of Labor's other commitments.
> 
> When Kevin Rudd was asked by the media thin morning on whether JG would still be PM in two weeks, he didn't answer the question directly (ABC).
> 
> If Julia Gillard looked over her shoulder now, I suspect she would see Uncle Psychopath approaching from behind with dagger in hand, pointy end forward.




He reminds me of Nigel the pig.



> Mr Nowakowski called paramedics, who treated the 50-year old and took him to hospital, where he was awaiting microsurgery on his leg.
> 
> "It's ripped a 25cm gash into my leg," he said.
> 
> "I didn't really feel anything, I just thought he'd lifted me up.



"

25cm gash??? I think Mr Nowakowsky tells porkies. 




Nigel says, CALL THAT A GASH!!!



http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...rd-street-attack/story-fni0fit3-1226664690747


----------



## bellenuit (18 June 2013)

Although we are all assuming that Rudd would make little difference at this stage because he would be leading a dysfunctional party of which many members have openly stated that they would not work with him and because the opposition have huge amounts of ammunition to attack him courtesy of his pro-Gillard opponents the last time he challenged, I still think there is huge risk for the opposition.

If Labor install him at the end of this final two week sitting, then the disunity issue will not be so apparent. I assume he would not need to change the cabinet make up as there will be no government business to attend to (in parliament) and all that will be left is electioneering. So it is quite possible that the other Labor members will simply bite their tongues for the remaining few weeks leading up to the election. They can worry about who is the leader after the election is over, but at least many of them will actually have seats after the election with Rudd in charge rather than the current state of affairs.

A concerted attack by the opposition against Rudd once he returns to the PM roll could backfire. Undeserved or not, he is popular and many believe that he was unjustly robbed of his role as PM. So there might be a lot of sympathy out there for him that could be very alienated by a negative campaign from the opposition. Gillard's and Bligh's negative attacks on their respective oppositions backfired for both of them and the same could happen if the coalition do likewise.


----------



## Purple XS2 (18 June 2013)

Rudd for this, Rudd for that - seeing as not even his supporters think Rudd is remotely capable of leadership, all this really means is "Rudd as election campaign star entertainer".

Suppose, hilarious to imagine, that Rudd is put up as leader, and the ALP actually win govt again? Does _anyone_ want Rudd as P.M. again?

There is no way the ALP will put Rudd up. They'd have to be certifiably insane.

The ALP is a sad, sad spectacle: a bunch of actors in need of a script. Not that the Lib-Nats are so much different, rather that they're a bit better managed these days.


----------



## Calliope (18 June 2013)

Purple XS2 said:


> .
> 
> Suppose, hilarious to imagine, that Rudd is put up as leader, and the ALP actually win govt again? Does _anyone_ want Rudd as P.M. again?
> 
> There is no way the ALP will put Rudd up. They'd have to be certifiably insane.




He would be a breath of stale air.


----------



## Letts (19 June 2013)

I can only speak for those that I have talked to, but especially amoung my generation there is a dislike for Tony Abbot that borders on hatred. They see him as far too old world, and unable to approach the trends of this generation with any kind of influence. 

I don't particularly mind the bloke, but I dont think he is PM material and in my (ever so humble) opinion, the country should get behind Malcolm Turnbull as PM (If he had a mind to run)


----------



## sails (19 June 2013)

Letts said:


> I can only speak for those that I have talked to, but especially amoung my generation there is a dislike for Tony Abbot that borders on hatred. They see him as far too old world, and unable to approach the trends of this generation with any kind of influence.
> 
> I don't particularly mind the bloke, but I dont think he is PM material and in my (ever so humble) opinion, the country should get behind Malcolm Turnbull as PM (If he had a mind to run)




Letts, Turnbull polled very dismally when he was PM before.  I just posted this in another thread:


27-29 November 2009....	Rudd: 65..... 	Turnbull: 14

Just over 6 months after Abbott took over:
18-20 June 2010....	Rudd: 46..... 	Abbott: 37 

June 23rd,  labor got so scared they dumped Rudd and put Gillard.​
And Turnbull is pro carbon pricing - he is running against the majority on that one as I understand it.


http://www.newspoll.com.au/cgi-bin/polling//display_poll_data.pl


----------



## Julia (19 June 2013)

Letts said:


> I can only speak for those that I have talked to, but especially amoung my generation there is a dislike for Tony Abbot that borders on hatred. They see him as far too old world, and unable to approach the trends of this generation with any kind of influence.
> 
> I don't particularly mind the bloke, but I dont think he is PM material and in my (ever so humble) opinion, the country should get behind Malcolm Turnbull as PM (If he had a mind to run)



Malcolm Turnbull had his chance at leading the Liberal Party.  He showed an incredible lack of political nous for someone with such extensive business experience.  (Google the Godwin Grech affair if you are not aware of this at the time.)

I might be wrong, but I have always had the sense that Mr Turnbull sees political leadership as the final notch for his belt, something to add to his financial success and his business experience.
Certainly, he is charming and urbane, articulate, all the traits Tony Abbott probably lacks.
But imho if I had to put money on who had the most concern for Australia, as distinct from self interest, it would go on Mr Abbott.

In the past he has never especially impressed me, and I have concerns about some of his ultra conservative leanings, but he does seem to have grown during this period of Opposition Leader, and I'd give him a decent chance of succeeding at PM, though this will be a massive ask of anyone, given the mess left by Labor.


----------



## Sdajii (19 June 2013)

Julia said:


> Mr Abbott.
> 
> In the past he has never especially impressed me, and I have concerns about some of his ultra conservative leanings, but he does seem to have grown during this period of Opposition Leader, and I'd give him a decent chance of succeeding at PM, though this will be a massive ask of anyone, given the mess left by Labor.




For better or worse, I think you'll see him get that chance to succeed.

At the last election I thought choosing between Abbott and Gillard for PM was like choosing between shattered glass and poison for dinner (I'm not sure which was which, but I think we got the worse option). I'm disgusted that our country's world of politics couldn't come up with anything better, on either side, for this election. I suppose that's yet to be confirmed, but whether or not Rudd succeeds in pulling the dagger out of his back and sticking it into Gillard's, it seems we're going to have either the glass or the poison (whichever Abbott was) as our next course.

At the last election all the feminists were so excited about having a female prime minister, and celebrating not having Abbott, who they considered a sexist bastard/pig/etc. As I suspected would be the case, Gillard did more harm for women than a worse chauvinist than Abbott would have. I couldn't care if we have a man, woman or penguin running the country, I just want a good job to be done. I don't think a bad job should reflect on the Prime Minister's entire gender, but that was always going to happen with the first female PM, and she made it worse by using feminism as a tool (which does reflect badly on any woman proud of using her as an example of her gender, though certainly not the gender as a whole, even if many people will see it that way).

If Abbott can do a good job of running the country I won't be so upset about his conservative values. Actually, I'm sick of issues like gay marriage and abortion and other such issues being key election topics. Sure, they're important, but for crying out loud, abortion laws aren't going to change so shut up (Gillard actually stooped to pretending to have fears that the opposition would change abortion laws because it would be a man in charge! I suppose to her credit she is probably correct about many women being stupid enough to fall for her ploy) and how about both sides just agree to go with whatever the majority of Australians want on issues like gay marriage so that the democracy works as it should regardless of who gets in and we can then be able to judge our prospective leaders based on real important issues relevant to running the country.


----------



## Letts (20 June 2013)

sails said:


> Letts, Turnbull polled very dismally when he was PM before.  I just posted this in another thread:
> 
> 
> 27-29 November 2009....	Rudd: 65..... 	Turnbull: 14
> ...





Fair enough, I understand, like I said it's just MY feeling that he would make a better PM than either of the options we have now - while the PM is technically the leader of our country, they are there to implement their *Partys* strategies/policies, and as such I feel like (Again, just my humble opinion) that someone of Turnbulls stature would make for a better public leader of Australia that the screaming red-head or bat-ears. If we look at the basics of voting, it shouldnt be that we vote for a particular person as PM, but for a party based on their policies or ideals. 

Tony Abbot is by no means stupid (Rhodes Scholar rah rah rah), but I personally believe that he is too out of touch with modern times to take Australia to its potential future. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to find the Greens surge ahead in this election (though they need to make a bit more noise), as the gay, student and environmental vote increases. 

Just my


----------



## sptrawler (20 June 2013)

Letts said:


> Tony Abbot is by no means stupid (Rhodes Scholar rah rah rah), but I personally believe that he is too out of touch with modern times to take Australia to its potential future. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to find the Greens surge ahead in this election (though they need to make a bit more noise), as the gay, student and environmental vote increases.
> 
> Just my




Yes we've seen how a hip, modern times, sort of guy works as Prime Minister. lol
"I've got to zip and start tweeting".
Then we saw what a Green government looks like. Even Bob Brown jumped ship.

Let's get back to boring, hey.


----------



## Letts (20 June 2013)

sptrawler said:


> Yes we've seen how a hip, modern times, sort of guy works as Prime Minister. lol
> "I've got to zip and start tweeting".
> Then we saw what a Green government looks like. Even Bob Brown jumped ship.
> 
> Let's get back to boring, hey.




Haha so in your opinion, there's no point in even trying to diversify our political system beyond a two-party organisation and making the pollies actually work for our votes, and that it's best to stay rooted in the past? I'm not talking about a PM who texts "LOL", "WTF" and "OMG", I'm not talking about a PM that Tweets, uses Instagram or wears cut-offs to work. What I want is a PM and party who can understand the issues that are growing TODAY, and not just stick to problems that have been around since Australia was founded.


----------



## Calliope (20 June 2013)

Letts said:


> i like (Again, just my humble opinion) that someone of Turnbulls stature would make for a better public leader of Australia that the screaming red-head or bat-ears. If we look at the basics of voting, it shouldnt be that we vote for a particular person as PM, but for a party based on their policies or ideals.




You are right in having a "humble opinion." If your opinion is that Turnbull would make a better PM because he is not a "screaming red-head" or have "bat-ears', then you have a lot to be humble about.

The only reason Turnbull rates high in the opinion polls is because he gets the approval of most Labor and Green voters. If they can't have Gillard or Rudd they want the next best thing...a left leaning liberal.


----------



## Letts (20 June 2013)

Calliope said:


> You are right in having a "humble opinion." If your opinion is that Turnbull would make a better PM because he is not a "screaming red-head" or have "bat-ears', then you have a lot to be humble about.
> 
> The only reason Turnbull rates high in the opinion polls is because he gets the approval of most Labor and Green voters. If they can't have Gillard or Rudd they want the next best thing...a left leaning liberal.




So a Liberal candidate who could reasonably get a few Labor and Green votes is a bad thing for the Liberal Party?


----------



## Calliope (20 June 2013)

Letts said:


> So a Liberal candidate who could reasonably get a few Labor and Green votes is a bad thing for the Liberal Party?




I am glad that you have qualified your posts with "*not to be taken seriously*". I will take your advice.


----------



## Letts (20 June 2013)

Calliope said:


> I am glad that you have qualified your posts with "*not to be taken seriously*". I will take your advice.





Back up, before we get personal, lets look at the facts: 

1) Labor voters are becoming disenfranchised with Julia Gillard
2) A lot of people do not like the idea of Tony Abbot as PM
3) Kevin Rudds popularity is also on the decline

As YOU said before, a lot of people who would traditionally vote Labor don't mind Turnbull. As a liberal, he would also have the support of the Liberal Party. So logically, if he was to run not only would he have the backing of his own party, but in the current climate could probably secure a fair few unhappy Labor voters who would not cross over the party line for Abbot. Why is this a bad idea?


----------



## sptrawler (20 June 2013)

Letts said:


> Back up, before we get personal, lets look at the facts:
> 
> 1) Labor voters are becoming disenfranchised with Julia Gillard
> 2) A lot of people do not like the idea of Tony Abbot as PM
> ...




The problem is, he was the leader of the opposition and the party removed him.


----------



## Letts (20 June 2013)

sptrawler said:


> The problem is, he was the leader of the opposition and the party removed him.




Yeah that's true. Well, whatever haha I don't think the Australian Government spies are reading this and taking our opinions into consideration anyway! 

Calliope and sptrawler, I mean no disrespect whatsoever, it's just my opinion.


----------



## sptrawler (20 June 2013)

Letts said:


> Yeah that's true. Well, whatever haha I don't think the Australian Government spies are reading this and taking our opinions into consideration anyway!
> 
> Calliope and sptrawler, I mean no disrespect whatsoever, it's just my opinion.




None taken, just people having a chat. 
Your beliefs and opinions are just as important as mine and makes for a more balanced discussion.


----------



## drsmith (20 June 2013)

When one looks at their records as Opposition Leader, Tony Abbott has clearly been a better performer than Malcolm Turnbull. 

Malcolm is clearly underutilised in the economic area and on that basis would be best suited to shadow treasurer. This though is the second highest profile role for a party both in opposition and in government. Until recently, he hasn't been enough of a team player under Tony Abbott's leadership to be rewarded with this role.

Once Malcolm has fully shifted in his own mind from the idea of being born to rule to being the leader of a team, he'll be better able to lead the party.


----------



## bunyip (20 June 2013)

Purple XS2 said:


> There is no way the ALP will put Rudd up. They'd have to be certifiably insane.



Insane if they do, insane if they don’t. 
No government wants to be booted out of office. If the ALP faces up to the fact that Rudd is their only possible hope of holding on to power, then chances are they’ll reinstate him as leader.



Sdajii said:


> I'm sick of issues like gay marriage




Me too. Frankly I don’t know what all the fuss is about regarding same sex marriage....the missus and I have been having the same sex in our marriage for more than 30 years and it’s worked OK for us!


----------



## dutchie (20 June 2013)

bunyip said:


> the missus and I have been having the same sex in our marriage for more than 30 years and it’s worked OK for us!




Too much information.


----------



## Calliope (20 June 2013)

bunyip said:


> Me too. Frankly I don’t know what all the fuss is about regarding same sex marriage....the missus and I have been having the same sex in our marriage for more than 30 years and it’s worked OK for us!




Missionary?


----------



## Calliope (20 June 2013)

Letts said:


> Calliope and sptrawler, I mean no disrespect whatsoever, it's just my opinion.




I have extended my respect to you by acceding to your request not to take you seriously.


----------



## prawn_86 (20 June 2013)

My inside rumour from Canberra is that AFP officers have been assigned to Rudd, which wouldn't happen unless a challenge/takeover was taking place.

Comes from a good (new) source, so we will see if it is true...


----------



## drsmith (20 June 2013)

prawn_86 said:


> My inside rumour from Canberra is that AFP officers have been assigned to Rudd, which wouldn't happen unless a challenge/takeover was taking place.



Where we are at the moment feels like the calm before the storm.


----------



## drsmith (21 June 2013)

Gary Gray's thoughts on Kevin Rudd's weasel words this morning,



> Mr Gray said Mr Rudd's statement this morning, that he did not “believe” there would be a leadership change, was far from categorical.




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ut-up-or-shut-up/story-fn59niix-1226667533062


----------



## Whiskers (26 June 2013)

Good chance Rudd will defeat Gillard for leadership tonight.

Not a certainty due firstly to extreme factional and policy agendas by some powerful players to hold power and get as much legislation through as they can with the support of the independents and secondly to an element of blinding self-righteousness believing they have to win because the alternatives are bad and 'evil'   

Abbott hit the bulls eye labelling Windsor and Oakshot as more staunch Labor than many Labor members for failing to support a no confidence motion against the Gillard government, but may against a Rudd government. They saw the writing on the wall that they had no chance now of winning their seats regardless of who led labor, but particularly if Rudd rolls Gillard.

The other key issue is Gillards sooo self-righteous attitude in defiance of popular and reasonable opinion on some policy and political decisions like the Mining Tax, the level of debt and the Gonski education reform.

But I think the fundamental underlying annoyance and cause of many of their bad decisions is a feminist quota for female appointments for it own sake. Abbott has successfully put sound argument that feminist quotas for feminist sake is bad economic decision making that fails to consider the economic impacts. Most women feel patronised  and demeaned by getting a job via a feminism quota rather than on their merits.

The electorate see labor has not learnt from successive state demolitions and will be annihilated under Gillard, but while the public prefers Abbotts Liberal to Gillards Labor, they don't trust an Abbot controlled house of reps and senate and to that extent will give Abbott the reps by a good margin v Gillard, but probably not the senate.

Rudd on the other hand might just be palatable enough with the electorate to win the reps with the tempering influence of the greens and other independents in the senate.  

Regardless of whether or not Rudd was circulating a petition, Gillards forced ballot in an attempt to foil Rudd will be frowned upon by the electorate if Gillard is retained by the 'back room boys'... despite the Labor caucus spin. 

A case of the best of a bad bunch in terms of trust to run the country atm. If only Abbot could shake off the legacy of 'workchoices' I'm sure their leadership popularity would improve further to match their party popularity. In fact I suspect if they had a leader untainted with the workchoices era they would do even better.


----------



## Wysiwyg (26 June 2013)

Whiskers said:


> Good chance Rudd will defeat Gillard for leadership tonight.



Unfortunately Kevin Rudd won. The better outcome would have been to wait till after the federal election because Kevin "media tart" Rudd is not going to save Labor Party. Stupid people, the lot pf them.


----------



## Whiskers (26 June 2013)

Wysiwyg said:


> Unfortunately Kevin Rudd won. The better outcome would have been to wait till after the federal election because Kevin "media tart" Rudd is not going to save Labor Party. Stupid people, the lot pf them.




Yeaah... a lot of unfortunate things about Aus politics atm... probably the most underestimated, that I didn't mention above, is the scattering of the conservative vote with the likes of the Palmer party. I think that would likely be enough to get Rudd across the line. I can's see a lot of labor or greens swinging to Palmer, but likely considerable more lib's switching across.


----------



## noco (26 June 2013)

Kevin Rudd may have won the caucas ballot but there is no gaurantee that he has the full support of parliament and rightly so the Governor General is seeking legakl advice.


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...s-prime-minister/story-fnho52jo-1226670425853


----------



## Wysiwyg (26 June 2013)

Whiskers said:


> Yeaah... a lot of unfortunate things about Aus politics atm...



Surely the majority of Labor supporters do not see Kevin Rudd as a Prime Minister. I have always been Labor but will vote void again against this egotestical ning nong.


----------



## Wysiwyg (26 June 2013)

Space cadet Bob Katter and fag Peter Slipper will offer Rudd their support. Jokes folks. :


----------



## nulla nulla (27 June 2013)

bunyip said:


> ..... Frankly I don’t know what all the fuss is about regarding same sex marriage....the missus and I have been having the same sex in our marriage for more than 30 years and it’s worked OK for us!






Calliope said:


> Missionary?




No, doggy style.

He sits up and begs and she rolls over and plays dead.


----------



## warrior12 (27 June 2013)

*Kevin Rudd the New Pm*

Finally that woman.. is gone... jesus Hopfully Kevin rudd shows the love again and hands out cash haha


----------



## Calliope (27 June 2013)

When Napoleon escaped from Elba he had just 100 days to re-organise his Grande Armee and march to his Waterloo. Rudd has 79 days to meet a similar fate. Although Wellington did say at the time "it was a close run thing".




	

		
			
		

		
	
]


----------



## prawn_86 (27 June 2013)

prawn_86 said:


> My inside rumour from Canberra is that AFP officers have been assigned to Rudd, which wouldn't happen unless a challenge/takeover was taking place.
> 
> Comes from a good (new) source, so we will see if it is true...




Good to see my source is on the ball. Not that it's any use to me


----------



## basilio (27 June 2013)

This certainly puts the cat among the pigeons for the next election.

Absolutely now doubt Kevin Rudd will be a far more competitive PM to take Labour to the polls.  Has to be worth at least 3-4%.  So perhaps it will be a a relatively narrow loss and most significantly the Senate staying split.

After the election?  It will be fascinating to see how Kevin can hold together Labour as Opposition Leader. Unless he has made a momentous change of character  he will still be a controlling micro manager. Just can't see how he will be tolerated for long.

Bring on the election !!


----------



## drsmith (27 June 2013)

A Morgan SMS poll last night had the Coalition at 50.5% 2PP (post Kev as leader).

On Sportsbet, the odds have narrowed slightly to $1.16/$5.00 in favour of the Coalition.


----------



## AAA (27 June 2013)

Steve Smith just announcing at the end of question time that he is retiring. How many Labor marginal members have now stated they not contesting the next election. Add the loss of the two independants the number of seats that should go to the coalition is climbing.


----------



## Knobby22 (27 June 2013)

drsmith said:


> A Morgan SMS poll last night had the Coalition at 50.5% 2PP (post Kev as leader).
> 
> On Sportsbet, the odds have narrowed slightly to $1.16/$5.00 in favour of the Coalition.




$1.18  $4.50 now. Must be a few bets being made.


----------



## drsmith (27 June 2013)

Knobby22 said:


> $1.18  $4.50 now. Must be a few bets being made.



A few days ago it was around $1.07/$7.00

While the Opposition will have a greater political opponent in Kevin Rudd, he carries an enormous amount of baggage including Tony Abbott as Opposition leader when his leadership was first put to the sword. 

The Coalition will still win the next election and will win comfortably.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (27 June 2013)

basilio said:


> After the election?  It will be fascinating to see how Kevin can hold together Labour as Opposition Leader. Unless he has made a momentous change of character  he will still be a controlling micro manager. Just can't see how he will be tolerated for long.
> 
> Bring on the election !!




Yes people don't tend to change their stripes that quickly, if at all.

I have heard from someone who has worked closely with him that his office (as PM) was a shambles - stuff everywhere.  He routinely changed appointments on the same day, causing his staff enormous difficulties in re-scheduling.  And he worked his office staff into the ground, sometimes all night and into the next day.  Well, that's what i heard and it was what I'd call a reliable source.  Nightmare to work for or around.


----------



## drsmith (27 June 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> I have heard from someone who has worked closely with him that his office (as PM) was a shambles - stuff everywhere.




A comment from today's SMH live political blog,



> The Public Servants just can't win. If Tony wins the election he'll sack thousands of them. If Kev stays around thousands will quit!


----------



## Calliope (27 June 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Yes people don't tend to change their stripes that quickly, if at all.




No. This guy is not for changing and I don't think he has the time to fit in an anger management course.


----------



## explod (27 June 2013)

Hate him if you like, but he is charasmatic, his performance in Parliament today left the opposition floundering and his words were loaded with clear meaning that will strike a cord with the electorate.  The big egos pumped up are hard to assail.

My tip, he will call the election soon and win it.  Interview on sbs24  today with Ray Morgan was revealing in this way and I feel he (Morgan) would lean to the right.  People today are concerned with job losses and high mortgages, they love a big show of confidence and Rudd will provide it.


----------



## Knobby22 (27 June 2013)

What amuses me is that he right wing press, especially News limited attacked the previous incumbent so mercilessly that they have managed to get in the guy who could really give Abbott a scare. 
I don't think he will win but I also can't see the opposition getting control of both houses now.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (27 June 2013)

explod said:


> Hate him if you like, but he is charasmatic,




That's not charisma.  Ask any warm-blooded woman if they'd like to have him to dinner.

Bill Clinton - that's charisma.  Rudd = geek.


----------



## Wysiwyg (27 June 2013)

basilio said:


> Absolutely now doubt Kevin Rudd will be a far more competitive PM to take Labour to the polls.  Has to be worth at least 3-4%.  So perhaps it will be a a relatively narrow loss and most significantly the Senate staying split.





Knobby22 said:


> What amuses me is that he right wing press, especially News limited attacked the previous incumbent so mercilessly that they have managed to get in the guy who could really give Abbott a scare.





I can't believe people see Rudd as a serious leader. Cannot people see through his  rhetoric ((in writing or speech) the undue use of exaggeration or display; bombast.). He is cannon fodder and the lesson he failed to learn last time is humility, though egocentric he may always be.


----------



## tech/a (27 June 2013)

Wysiwyg said:


> I can't believe people see Rudd as a serious leader. Cannot people see through his  rhetoric ((in writing or speech) the undue use of exaggeration or display; bombast.). He is cannon fodder and the lesson he failed to learn last time is humility, though egocentric he may always be.




Self centered
Self indulgent
Self serving
Manipulative

Who really treats the general public with contempt
That he can manipulate you and I just as he manipulates
Everything else around him.

Spoilt college boy who works behind closed doors 
And will stab you in the back if it benefits his position.

Labor deserves him as a leader
Australia *DOESNT*


----------



## drsmith (27 June 2013)

explod said:


> Hate him if you like, but he is charasmatic, his performance in Parliament today left the opposition floundering and his words were loaded with clear meaning that will strike a cord with the electorate.  The big egos pumped up are hard to assail.



While his presentation was far better and more concise than that of Julia Gillard, it's still the same old nonsense in terms of non-answers and trying to get away with bare faced lies.

In relative terms, the electorate will see this as a greater problem for Labor regardless of who is leading.

Kevin Rudd reborn won't be the messiah regardless of what some would like to dream.


----------



## sptrawler (27 June 2013)

drsmith said:


> While his presentation was far better and more concise than that of Julia Gillard, it's still the same old nonsense in terms of non-answers and trying to get away with bare faced lies.
> 
> In relative terms, the electorate will see this as a greater problem for Labor regardless of who is leading.
> 
> Kevin Rudd reborn won't be the messiah regardless of what some would like to dream.




I agree with you doc, everyone is high fiving at the moment. 
Give it 10 days of that 'dick' on t.v and everyone will remember why they hated him.lol

The goon show rolls on, the only upside is Swan has been written out of the show.

The real comical bit is Garret shot his feet off, by walking, I heard Gillard couldn't chuck him out earlier.


----------



## IFocus (27 June 2013)

Wysiwyg said:


> I can't believe people see Rudd as a serious leader. Cannot people see through his  rhetoric ((in writing or speech) the undue use of exaggeration or display; bombast.). He is cannon fodder and the lesson he failed to learn last time is humility, though egocentric he may always be.




Labor don't want Kev but the hard heads weighted up the damage of a Gillard election and have rolled the dice.

The game is to limit the future damage a Abbott government will do to Australia and the Labor hard heads believe its serious.


----------



## wayneL (27 June 2013)

IFocus said:


> Labor don't want Kev but the hard heads weighted up the damage of a Gillard election and have rolled the dice.
> 
> The game is to limit the future damage a Abbott government will do to Australia and the Labor hard heads believe its serious.




Damage?

A bit hard to damage something already FUBARed by Rudd/Gillard/Rudd.

The coalition will pull back Australia from the edge of the abyss, as they have always had to do when Labor screwed things up.


----------



## drsmith (27 June 2013)

The game for Labor was to limit the future damage an election wipe out that Julia Gillard's leadership would have inflicted on the party.

The character references given to Kevin Rudd by his party colleagues during his time in exile says it all.


----------



## sptrawler (27 June 2013)

IFocus said:


> The game is to limit the future damage a Abbott government will do to Australia and the Labor hard heads believe its serious.




What do you mean the Royal Commission into unions.lol


----------



## nioka (27 June 2013)

tech/a said:


> Self centered
> Self indulgent
> Self serving
> Manipulative
> ...




For one minute I thought you were describing Abbott.

But then again maybe you are.


----------



## IFocus (27 June 2013)

nioka said:


> For one minute I thought you were describing Abbott.
> 
> But then again maybe you are.





Nioka good to see you still have a pulse hope you are well, just wish I had your witt


----------



## Julia (27 June 2013)

explod said:


> Hate him if you like, but he is charasmatic, his performance in Parliament today left the opposition floundering and his words were loaded with clear meaning that will strike a cord with the electorate.  The big egos pumped up are hard to assail.



Oh lord, explod, what an example of seeing what you want to see!
Rudd has always been big on the rhetoric.  It is as hollow as his soul.
He even had the insensitivity today in Question Time to beseech the Parliament to be "kinder, more gentle".
This following yet another Labor assassination which was carried out in the bloodiest possible way.
Why you can't see through this shallow apology for a human being is beyond me.



> My tip, he will call the election soon and win it.  Interview on sbs24  today with Ray Morgan was revealing in this way and I feel he (Morgan) would lean to the right.  People today are concerned with job losses and high mortgages, they love a big show of confidence and Rudd will provide it.



You are allowing your hopes to run away with you.  However, you do get it right when you refer to "a big show of confidence".  Rudd has that in spades.  It's the foundation that's entirely missing.

Further, how anyone could even consider voting for a Party which in its three years of tenure has shown itself to be made up of members nursing vitriolic hatred for one another, rapid change of leader when the polls look bad, and zero compunction in summarily dismissing its own.
To think that anyone would agree to allow such a rabble of self indulgent flawed individuals to actually govern the country is incredible.




Gringotts Bank said:


> That's not charisma.  Ask any warm-blooded woman if they'd like to have him to dinner.
> 
> Bill Clinton - that's charisma.  Rudd = geek.



+1.  Charisma and Rudd?   Not even in hell.



Wysiwyg said:


> I can't believe people see Rudd as a serious leader. Cannot people see through his  rhetoric ((in writing or speech) the undue use of exaggeration or display; bombast.). He is cannon fodder and the lesson he failed to learn last time is humility, though egocentric he may always be.



+1.

Last night Bunyip commented on being thankful for being in future spared Julia Gillard's grating voice.
I mentally agreed reading his comment.  But after just half a day of Mr Rudd's prissy, patronising, egocentric tones, I'd welcome back even the shrill tones of Ms Gillard.


----------



## sptrawler (27 June 2013)

It is good to see Rudds head swelling again and cutting off the blood supply.lol,lol

Now he is driving the BIG CHAIR again he is postulating again, magic the anti clockwise syphon will accelerate.IMO

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-...-fresh-uncertainty-over-election-date/4785770

Kevs big head, will explode again, just wait and watch.


----------



## Calliope (28 June 2013)

Julia said:


> Last night Bunyip commented on being thankful for being in future spared Julia Gillard's grating voice.
> I mentally agreed reading his comment.  But after just half a day of *Mr Rudd's prissy, patronising, egocentric tones*, I'd welcome back even the shrill tones of Ms Gillard.




And every time we turn on ABC radio we are going to subjected to this until election day. It is nauseating.  I suppose that one blessing of radio is the we don't have to watch the boof-head with it's little chin and prissy mouth trying to pretend he is a messiah.


----------



## bellenuit (28 June 2013)

I thought Christopher Pyne's comment that Rudd had used his attack dogs to bring down Gillard rather silly. Attack dogs convey an image of snarling dogs that are trying to get at someone to tear them to pieces but are being held back on a leash. Hardly an appropriate analogy. Rudd worked much more subtly in the background and even to the last minute no one was sure whether there was a challenge on or not.  

The coalition needs to quickly get their act together on how they should approach Rudd. Pyne screaming his mouth off before he has engaged his brain may not work anymore and may be counterproductive.


----------



## drsmith (28 June 2013)

The Rudd relief rally has not been enough to get Labor's head above water,

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...n-course-for-election-win-20130628-2p0xv.html

It will be interesting to see what's next in the plan,



> Key elements of Ms Gillard's carbon tax - including whether to fasttrack the shift from a fixed price to a floating price - will be examined as soon as Mr Rudd's new cabinet meets next week.
> 
> And senior Labor sources have told The Australian Mr Rudd will reverse some of the cuts to the welfare payments of single parents and commit to an in-principle pledge to increase Newstart, in a radical departure from the Gillard government's welfare agenda.




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...r-being-sworn-in/story-fn59niix-1226671125251


----------



## drsmith (28 June 2013)

The answer to his question is simple.

Off the rails.


----------



## Calliope (28 June 2013)

drsmith said:


> The Rudd relief rally has not been enough to get Labor's head above water.






> Asked if Labor could win the September 14 election under Mr Rudd, 56.9 per cent responded no, while 30.2 per cent said yes.




The only question now for the bookies is; by how much?... anywhere in to range 10-25 I would say.

I love Moir's cartoon Doc. It says it all.


----------



## db94 (28 June 2013)

He will want the election to be early as possible. The alternative always looks better. Now they have him, give it a few weeks and people will realise what hes really like. Watching him talk on TV makes me feel sick, hes a lion in a sheep's suit.  Its still the same Labor party, just a different leader.


----------



## AAA (28 June 2013)

drsmith said:


> The Rudd relief rally has not been enough to get Labor's head above water,
> 
> [




Interesting how close the preferred PM polling is. 

Mr 'popular' Rudd 51.6%.  

Compared to 

Mr 'unpopular' Abbott. 48.4

Just think what a few weeks of seeing Rudd on the TV every night wil do to that equation.


----------



## drsmith (28 June 2013)

db94 said:


> He will want the election to be early as possible. The alternative always looks better. Now they have him, give it a few weeks and people will realise what hes really like. Watching him talk on TV makes me feel sick, hes a lion in a sheep's suit.  Its still the same Labor party, just a different leader.



I suspect his promises will be along the lines of a reduced carbon tax (early transfer to an ETS ?), a do something about the boats he started, some extra low/middle class end welfare and a big warm trust me, I've changed and so has Labor.

Then it's off to the polls, quick smart.


----------



## Calliope (28 June 2013)

When the recycled bull turns up all the females desert the Alpha female's court and start courting the recycled bull.



> Gillard supporters, including Wayne Swan, Stephen Conroy, Peter Garrett, Joe Ludwig, Greg Combet, Craig Emerson and Stephen Smith have, since Wednesday's ballot, either quit the ministry or politics entirely. Prominent female ministers - including Gillard backers Tanya Plibersek, Jenny Macklin and Kate Ellis - have stayed on Mr Rudd's frontbench despite decrying his vicious undermining of Ms Gillard as prime minister.




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...he-men-step-down/story-fn59niix-1226671121428


----------



## drsmith (28 June 2013)

AAA said:


> Interesting how close the preferred PM polling is.
> 
> Mr 'popular' Rudd 51.6%.
> 
> ...



A interesting question there will be if someone gets under his skin.

He had a blue tie then too.


----------



## drsmith (28 June 2013)

Has Kevin57 already lost the plot ?

This sounds like desperate stuff,



> Mr Rudd said Australia needed "cool hands on the tiller" when dealing with Indonesian relations.
> 
> "What I am talking about is diplomatic conflict. But I am always wary about where diplomatic conflicts go," he said, before referring to the 1962-66 Indonesia-Malaysia conflict.
> 
> ...




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...rm-plan-deadline/story-fn9qr68y-1226671379678


----------



## noco (28 June 2013)

I observed a poll run by Channel 7 and Yahoo news this morning which showed Abbott with 86 %  and Rudd with 14%.

I went to copy and paste it on ASF a couple of hours later and it had disappeared.

 I wonder why?


----------



## bellenuit (28 June 2013)

drsmith said:


> Has Kevin57 already lost the plot ?
> 
> This sounds like desperate stuff,
> 
> ...




We have every right to tow boats which enter our territorial waters without permission back to international waters just outside Indonesian waters (from where they originated). This is all the opposition has said it will do and then only if it is safe to do so. 

For Rudd to issue the statements he did today borders on treachery. He is effectively saying that Australia should not enforce its rights because our neighbour wouldn't like it, even when we know that neighbour turns a blind eye to the bribery and corruption that facilitated those crossings to begin with. He is pre-emptively taking the side of Indonesia for his own political purposes. 

What happens should Australia and Indonesia have differences over fishing or mineral deposits in the seas between us. Do we just concede because the Indonesians might be offended.


----------



## springhill (28 June 2013)

drsmith said:


> Has Kevin57 already lost the plot ?
> 
> This sounds like desperate stuff,
> 
> ...




Yep, he has already shown his hand as being divisive.

Nothing has changed here.


----------



## pixel (28 June 2013)

drsmith said:


> Has Kevin57 already lost the plot ?




He's a busy little beaver. On the News, I just heard him referred to as Kev'n 24/7.


----------



## noco (28 June 2013)

bellenuit said:


> We have every right to tow boats which enter our territorial waters without permission back to international waters just outside Indonesian waters (from where they originated). This is all the opposition has said it will do and then only if it is safe to do so.
> 
> For Rudd to issue the statements he did today borders on treachery. He is effectively saying that Australia should not enforce its rights because our neighbour wouldn't like it, even when we know that neighbour turns a blind eye to the bribery and corruption that facilitated those crossings to begin with. He is pre-emptively taking the side of Indonesia for his own political purposes.
> 
> What happens should Australia and Indonesia have differences over fishing or mineral deposits in the seas between us. Do we just concede because the Indonesians might be offended.




The little t>^d now says turning back the boats to Indonesia by 'Field Marshall' Abbott could cause a military conflict. How absurd can he be? 

He has not changed and is as bad as his predecessor.

Scare tactics at its best.

He has gone to the extreme IMHO.


----------



## MrBurns (28 June 2013)

noco said:


> The little t>^d now says turning back the boats to Indonesia by 'Field Marshall' Abbott could cause a military conflict. How absurd can he be?
> He has not changed and is as bad as his predecessor.
> Scare tactics at its best.
> He has gone to the extreme IMHO.




Yes I saw that ........the little runt has shot himself in the foot already.......good, wont be long before the media start asking him if he's heard the rumours about a challenge


----------



## drsmith (28 June 2013)

MrBurns said:


> Yes I saw that ........the little runt has shot himself in the foot already.......good, wont be long before the media start asking him if he's heard the rumours about a challenge



They've still got Bill Shorten in the locker,


----------



## explod (28 June 2013)

noco said:


> The little t>^d now says turning back the boats to Indonesia by 'Field Marshall' Abbott could cause a military conflict. How absurd can he be?
> 
> He has not changed and is as bad as his predecessor.
> 
> ...




The Indo...... system is still in the jungle days and feeds off any money, good, bad or ugly it can get hold of.  On international affairs, like it or not Rudd is one of the best exponents.  He does not seem to be suggesting open conflict will occur (as the press and some here suggest) but that it is ground that could sour the important relationship that for security reasons we need to keep on a co-operative bases.

Abbott will cause scare actions at an even higher bestest level than yours noco in my view. 

If you really want extremes, how about Howard going along with the seppo's into Iraq chasing WOMD that did not exist and terrorists that lived elsewhere.


----------



## drsmith (28 June 2013)

explod said:


> The Indo...... system is still in the jungle days and feeds off any money, good, bad or ugly it can get hold of.  On international affairs, like it or not Rudd is one of the best exponents.



He's best suited to Minister for Interplanetary Affairs based from Mars.

That would have also had the benefit of not mattering when the cryogenic freeze failed.


----------



## DB008 (28 June 2013)

K Rudd is a egotistical nutter.

Medicare reforme (ie 'Super-clinics').

Still in la-la land...


----------



## explod (28 June 2013)

DB008 said:


> K Rudd is a egotistical nutter.
> 
> Medicare reforme (with 'Super-clinics').
> 
> Still in la-la land...




The problem you have is that people are sucked in by a pretty face who makes a big noise thereby causing them to forget the past.


----------



## noco (28 June 2013)

explod said:


> The problem you have is that people are sucked in by a pretty face who makes a big noise thereby causing them to forget the past.




Wow!!!!!! That is the best description of KRudd that I have ever heard.

You are spot on Plod.


----------



## Julia (28 June 2013)

Calliope said:


> When the recycled bull turns up all the females desert the Alpha female's court and start courting the recycled bull.



From that article:


> Ms Gillard's ministerial colleagues, including Ms Macklin and Senator Wong, criticised Labor for failing to back a woman to replace Martin Ferguson in the safe seat of Batman.



And then they laid their utter hypocrisy out on the line when it mattered most, when their adored leader actually needed them.



> Author and feminist Jane Caro, who has been behind the Destroy The Joint movement, said Labor women were entitled to stay in positions of power and there was nothing hypocritical about their decision.



And these feminists wonder why no one takes them seriously!  Caro apparently fails to have even a glimmer of her own hypocrisy.



drsmith said:


> Has Kevin57 already lost the plot ?
> 
> This sounds like desperate stuff,



+1.  Way out of line.



bellenuit said:


> We have every right to tow boats which enter our territorial waters without permission back to international waters just outside Indonesian waters (from where they originated). This is all the opposition has said it will do and then only if it is safe to do so.
> 
> For Rudd to issue the statements he did today borders on treachery. He is effectively saying that Australia should not enforce its rights because our neighbour wouldn't like it, even when we know that neighbour turns a blind eye to the bribery and corruption that facilitated those crossings to begin with. He is pre-emptively taking the side of Indonesia for his own political purposes.
> 
> What happens should Australia and Indonesia have differences over fishing or mineral deposits in the seas between us. Do we just concede because the Indonesians might be offended.



When I was listening to his manipulative ploy here, internationally irresponsible as it is, my instinctive reaction was anger at Rudd being prepared to say anything at all in an attempt to alarm the electorate.  On thinking about it further, I think he has worked out exactly his target audience, ie those who can't think for themselves, and is tailoring his message to them.
Yesterday ABC Radio did a lot of on the street interviews in western Sydney asking people if Mr Rudd's return would affect their vote.  These people had not heard a single word of policy from Mr Rudd, but enthusiastically said  "oh yes, I was going to vote for Mr Abbott, but now that Kevin is back I'll vote for him".
It cannot be too difficult to send convincing messages to these people given their clear lack of cognitive ability.




explod said:


> The Indo...... system is still in the jungle days and feeds off any money, good, bad or ugly it can get hold of.  On international affairs, like it or not Rudd is one of the best exponents.  He does not seem to be suggesting open conflict will occur (as the press and some here suggest) but that it is ground that could sour the important relationship that for security reasons we need to keep on a co-operative bases.



I suggest you listen again to all he said.  He is absolutely clearly suggesting open conflict is a real possibility under a Coalition government.
Add this to the Indonesians' comment on learning of the return of Rudd that it was "beyond comprehension", what on earth do you think Rudd is potentially doing to the relationship of Australia with Indonesia?
As bellenuit says, he is treading in stupidly inflammatory international ground for the sake of base domestic political advantage.

Has he learned anything from his time in the wasteland?  Apparently yes.  How to be even more undermining of the greater Australian good than he was while he white anted Gillard throughout her reign.
I cannot think of an individual I despise more.


----------



## Wysiwyg (29 June 2013)

Julia said:


> When I was listening to his manipulative ploy here, internationally irresponsible as it is, my instinctive reaction was anger at Rudd being prepared to say anything at all in an attempt to alarm the electorate.  On thinking about it further, I think he has worked out exactly his target audience, ie those who can't think for themselves, and is tailoring his message to them.



It also dawned on me the media industry thrives on this stuff and exactly why Rudd strings them along this way. Control is power.


----------



## explod (29 June 2013)

Julia said:


> From that article:
> 
> I suggest you listen again to all he said.  He is absolutely clearly suggesting open conflict is a real possibility under a Coalition government.
> Add this to the Indonesians' comment on learning of the return of Rudd that it was "beyond comprehension", what on earth do you think Rudd is potentially doing to the relationship of Australia with Indonesia?
> ...




I detest them all Julia as they are so removed from reality on the ground it is not funny.  And yes I did listen to Rudd *well*, because from a social point, which is so important for those struggling at the coalface, the Libs have never had it and perhaps the Krudd wimp can hold things off till some sanity returns to our political scene overall.

For a start they want to give money to wealthy private schools yet they cut down the public systems, particularly those in the secondary training areas.  And one could labour the point onwards.


----------



## Aussiejeff (29 June 2013)

Many scoffed when Latham called this man _"E-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-v-i-l"_  :batman:.

I wonder......:evilburn:


----------



## Calliope (29 June 2013)

explod said:


> The problem you have is that people are sucked in by a pretty face who makes a big noise thereby causing them to forget the past.




Admittedly he is the prettiest face in this pic, but I think you should see Specsavers.


----------



## noco (29 June 2013)

noco said:


> I observed a poll run by Channel 7 and Yahoo news this morning which showed Abbott with 86 %  and Rudd with 14%.
> 
> I went to copy and paste it on ASF a couple of hours later and it had disappeared.
> 
> I wonder why?




Just checked out the latest Yahoo7 poll on Kevin Rudd.

The Question............."DO YOU BELIEVe RUDD HAS CHANGED?"

Results so far................NO......65% .....  YES......35%


----------



## Calliope (29 June 2013)

noco said:


> Just checked out the latest Yahoo7 poll on Kevin Rudd.
> 
> The Question............."DO YOU BELIEVe RUDD HAS CHANGED?"
> 
> Results so far................NO......65% .....  YES......35%




Of course he's changed...for the worse!


----------



## drsmith (29 June 2013)

Calliope said:


> Of course he's changed...for the worse!



It could be that the 65% that said no already regard him as a saint...........,

Saint Kev the psychopath that is.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (14 July 2013)

Three things to report.

1. I think Rudd has had his "jump the shark moment" with the Gunston Shaving Selfie. My contacts in journalism feel he has lost the credibility he gained on resuming PM, with his frenetic movements and statements. The knives will be out for him next week from the journos. The queueing Diplomats was the last straw.

2. I had lunch with some ALP figures in Qld ALP today, and they hate him more than the LNP do, although will keep him for the kick in votes he brings. And the hatred was palpable.

3. I believe he will win, and resume as elected PM, as he has huge self belief and is a good campaigner, but won't get his changes to ALP through.

gg


----------



## sptrawler (14 July 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Three things to report.
> 
> 1. I think Rudd has had his "jump the shark moment" with the Gunston Shaving Selfie. My contacts in journalism feel he has lost the credibility he gained on resuming PM, with his frenetic movements and statements. The knives will be out for him next week from the journos. The queueing Diplomats was the last straw.
> 
> ...




Well that's it then. Tony's finished when the true believers, such as yourself, run up the white flag gg.lol


----------



## dutchie (16 July 2013)

Kevin Rudd has described himself as a "survivor" of the Kokoda Track.


Look at me, look at me, look at me.


----------



## MrBurns (16 July 2013)

dutchie said:


> Kevin Rudd has described himself as a "survivor" of the Kokoda Track.
> 
> 
> Look at me, look at me, look at me.




What a tosser.
Though we knew that already.


----------



## db94 (16 July 2013)

dutchie said:


> Kevin Rudd has described himself as a "survivor" of the Kokoda Track.
> 
> 
> Look at me, look at me, look at me.




what a pompous a**! he wouldnt have lasted 5 seconds in the war and this is in fact an insult to those who went to war. Once again Rudd just cant hold back his ego


----------



## Calliope (16 July 2013)

dutchie said:


> Kevin Rudd has described himself as a "survivor" of the Kokoda Track.
> 
> 
> Look at me, look at me, look at me.




Can you imagine the furore among the twitterati if Abbott had said that.



> Despite saying yesterday that he was a friend of PNG Mr Rudd did not visit the country once when he was foreign minister.


----------



## db94 (16 July 2013)

Calliope said:


> Despite saying yesterday that he was a friend of PNG Mr Rudd did not visit the country once when he was foreign minister.




I really think people are starting to see through Rudd and all his antics and show ponying. He could call the election early before he blows himself up. Still no election date though


----------



## sydboy007 (16 July 2013)

db94 said:


> I really think people are starting to see through Rudd and all his antics and show ponying. He could call the election early before he blows himself up. Still no election date though




Why call an election when he's yet to see how Tony copes with the pressure.  First indications is Tony has a propensity for foot in mouth syndrome.

I'm very much looking forward to the media scrutiny on the coalition policies.

At least we have a contest now.  Nothing worse than letting one mob control the lower and upper house.

ps. I don't like Rudd, I don't like Tony.  I see neither of them having much substance once u get under the thin public veneer they present to us.


----------



## db94 (16 July 2013)

sydboy007 said:


> Why call an election when he's yet to see how Tony copes with the pressure.  First indications is Tony has a propensity for foot in mouth syndrome.
> 
> I'm very much looking forward to the media scrutiny on the coalition policies.
> 
> ...




The differencves between the two is becoming less apparent as the days go by, the earlier the election the better. If all these policy changes from Rudd continues it'll just end up being a popularity contest based on personality (which Rudd is trying to do) and not on policies. 

I think the coalition will really need to ramp it up with their policies if they still wanna stand a chance. Im hoping the food bowl is one and more growth up north with the mining boom slowly fading away. 

Its a clever move by the coalition to not announce any policies yet because all Rudd will do is copy, as he is already showing by removing the carbon tax

EDIT: I also cant see the Labor party delivering a surplus anytime soon with Rudd http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-16/38-billion-to-terminate-carbon-tax-says-kevin-rudd/4822556


----------



## Calliope (16 July 2013)

In Townsville Rudd is confronted by a patron from GG's Ross Island pub.


----------



## Muschu (16 July 2013)

MrBurns said:


> What a tosser.
> Though we knew that already.




Far too generous an assessment Mr B..... Which does not mean he cannot win....  His skills and attributes are in areas other than authentic leadership.


----------



## noco (16 July 2013)

Gary Johns believes Rudd will have his horns clipped if he attempts to roll caucas on his Kevin forever stunt of having 75% to roll him as Primeminister.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...vin-king-forever/story-fn8v83qk-1226679815527


----------



## drsmith (16 July 2013)

noco said:


> Gary Johns believes Rudd will have his horns clipped if he attempts to roll caucas on his Kevin forever stunt of having 75% to roll him as Primeminister.
> 
> 
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...vin-king-forever/story-fn8v83qk-1226679815527



The games within could remain very interesting.

Perhaps clipped to the extent of narrow loss at the election should that prove necessary.


----------



## sptrawler (16 July 2013)

drsmith said:


> The games within could remain very interesting.
> 
> Perhaps clipped to the extent of narrow loss at the election should that prove necessary.




I would think this is why he isn't calling an election date.
The unions and Labor power brokers would want it as early as possible, so they don't have to show their hands on the internal changes.

However Rudd would want to drag it out as long as possible, because he knows Abbott can't give him the policies too early.


----------



## Calliope (17 July 2013)

Look at me!!


----------



## Intrinsic Value (17 July 2013)

If you just look at the quick grabs from the news headlines it is quite apparent why Rudd is back in the ball game.

He always appears positive and presidential in these quick grabs with a clear message whilst Abbott appears a bit hesitant, defensive and negative.

Very clever stuff by those orchestrating the Kevin campaign because lets face it most people dont bother much beyond the superficial impressions. Perception is everything especially in an age when most people either couldnt be bothered or dont have time to really analyse who they are voting for.

It is all in the marketing.


----------



## noco (17 July 2013)

sptrawler said:


> I would think this is why he isn't calling an election date.
> The unions and Labor power brokers would want it as early as possible, so they don't have to show their hands on the internal changes.
> 
> However Rudd would want to drag it out as long as possible, because he knows Abbott can't give him the policies too early.




According to Dennis Shanahan, he is anticipating a late August poll.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...ts-to-early-poll/story-e6frg75f-1226680398429


----------



## sails (17 July 2013)

Intrinsic Value said:


> If you just look at the quick grabs from the news headlines it is quite apparent why Rudd is back in the ball game.
> 
> He always appears positive and presidential in these quick grabs with a clear message whilst Abbott appears a bit hesitant, defensive and negative.
> 
> ...




I wonder how people will feel if labor dumps him again after the election? Rudd's history at running the country was so dismal his own  side sacked him.  So is this marketing being honest?



> KEVIN Rudd's bid to hand rank-and-file members a vote for the federal parliamentary leader looks certain to be backed by the party, but could face a challenge from unions at a national conference after the election.




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...udd-over-top-job/story-fn59niix-1226677343046


----------



## db94 (17 July 2013)

Rudd copying Obama when he ran for president. He is also running for pm in a very similar style to obama, id almost dare to say identical.


----------



## sptrawler (17 July 2013)

The biggest problem for Rudd is, he is admitting the last six years has been a policy failure, on all fronts.

Backflipping on everything, within two months of the election, looks terrible.


----------



## Julia (18 July 2013)

Nikki Saava sums Rudd up pretty well:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...era-inaction-man/story-fnahw9xv-1226680960113


----------



## explod (18 July 2013)

Was not able to log into that article Julia.

Would it be possible for it to be posted up perhaps.

Thank you in anticipation.


----------



## sptrawler (18 July 2013)

Here you go explod.

 Illustration: Eric Lobbecke Source: The Australian 
IN the documentary Truth or Dare, Warren Beatty, of all people, gets exasperated by the constant presence of cameras recording every moment of the life of his then girlfriend, Madonna, during her 1990 Blonde Ambition tour. 
"She doesn't want to live off camera, much less talk . . . what point is there of existing off camera?" Beatty says, funnily enough, to the cameras.

So to the Cult of Kevin and his Blind Ambition tour to remake Labor in his own image, and in the process more deeply entrench the presidential nature of Australian election campaigns, to guarantee parties remain subordinate to the dominant personality. Right now that would be himself. Rudd's behaviour, which at any other time journalists would have risen en masse to describe as manic or egomaniacal, prompted recall of the Beatty quote, particularly after Rudd posted his selfie with a piece of toilet paper stuck to his face, replete with note to selfie urging care in the use of razors.

...For someone extremely adept at using both sharp and blunt instruments, it demonstrated again, that when it comes to Kevin, there is no life away from cameras, and for the rest of us, now that he has dared Labor to effectively ordain him leader for life, there is the prospect of no life without Kevin.

We are told Facebook aficionados liked the photo of Kevin's self-inflicted wound, probably almost as much as social media loved Julia Gillard's misogyny speech and the skateboarding dog. Introducing Barry the Back Cushion Mate proved there would be no end to it as Kevin had previously warned, when he explained that because he is only human and he feels compelled to prove it, he will continue to share private moments with the world. Adults shuddered at the prospect of future postings of bathroom mishaps, while children called for more.

In three short weeks Kevin has offered up his vision of how modern Australian democracy should function, and it is not through quiet governance. It is by the camera, of the camera and for the camera, a formula suited to the whims and celebrity fantasies that preoccupy the social media generation, which abhors detail. Just like Rudd himself.

Carbon, boats, deficits don't get fixed - they get quickie makeovers. A slash of lipstick here and a clever line there, and problem terminated. Kevinator moves with lightning speed to the next issue before star-struck media probes too deeply or focuses on deficiencies or repercussions.

Displaying rare but commendable curiosity, Townsville ABC radio's Paula Tapiolas asked Rudd about the costs for abattoirs of his decision to replace the carbon tax with an emissions trading scheme. Before burying her in verbiage, Rudd replied he could not be expected to go through it sector by sector or business by business and he couldn't do it anyway. Why not?

John Howard and Pete Costello were expected to know the price impact on every product and every business when they introduced the GST.

Later, at the press conference to announce the changes, Rudd repeatedly assured families they would be $380 "per year" better off. When a journalist queried whether it was in fact just for one year, his Treasurer had to get the pooper scooper out. For Kevin the importance of the occasion resides in being there, not being across the facts.

Because he removed Julia Gillard and made Labor competitive again, Rudd has been forgiven behaviour which would otherwise be deemed intolerable. Keeping the conga line of diplomats waiting outside the Lodge in the Canberra cold to pay homage at the court of Kevin would have wrought condemnation from every quarter for either being disrespectful or way too up himselfie, even if some of the ambassadors were willing props.

The media have been very kind to Kevin, tolerating and promoting his talent for endless distractions, which is even more finely honed now than it was the first time around, and which is paying the same kind of early dividends as it did the first time around too. His standing in the polls is proof of his success in amusing and bamboozling. It also underscores Tony Abbott's inability to consolidate his standing as alternative prime minister. If Rudd's success is rooted in campaigning - not governing - then Abbott's lies in his ability to exploit the flaws and foibles of others. Rather, it used to. He has had trouble getting a proper bead on Rudd.

Rudd exudes confidence, his determined cheerfulness in public hiding for a time the trail of policy wreckage, backflips and shattered careers behind him. Abbott destroys prime ministers with lethal force, yet people remain unconvinced this qualifies him to do the job himself. He remains unable to sell his own credentials as a solid administrator and generally decent human being.

Rudd looks and sounds ready for battle, the Kevinator shape-shifter on speed, whereas Abbott, as well as looking discomfited by the turn of events, seems worn down by the prospect of having to kill Kevin again.

Asked what Abbott needed to do this time around, one senior Liberal offered up one word of advice for his boss: "Relax."

Rudd is practised at masking his feelings in public, whereas Abbott's are written all over his face.

Liberals still believe they can win, albeit with a much reduced margin now, speculating a 10 seat majority remains within reach. They do not even whisper about Malcolm, not yet. Time is Abbott's enemy and friend as it is Rudd's.

If Rudd surges ahead in the polls, he would be neglecting his responsibilities as leader - and reneging on his pre-coup undertakings to listen to colleagues - not to call the election immediately. If he doesn't and he waits, there are grave risks.

The first is that he will struggle to keep a lid on the hatreds inside Labor. Apart from the obvious stuff-up with the naive young diplomat, the withdrawal of candidates to give Gillard's preferred choice a clear run for her seat of Lalor was described by one insider as an exercise in keeping the peace. Those who have spoken to the former prime minister report she is "in a very bad way".

The second reason Rudd won't want to wait too long is that it could give Abbott the time he needs to tear him down, or if he can't, then Liberals might - repeat, might - be tempted to emulate Labor and replace their unpopular leader with the popular one. Nothing is beyond the realms of possibility. Rudd himself proves it.


----------



## Calliope (18 July 2013)

sptrawler said:


> Illustration: Eric Lobbecke Source: The Australian




The point is I think, that Wily Coyote never catches Road Runner.


----------



## sptrawler (18 July 2013)

I must admit, I do smile when I see the Kev advert, with the smile on saying "we must raise the bar".

I think what an absolute dick.lol


----------



## Country Lad (18 July 2013)

Calliope said:


> The point is I think, that Wily Coyote never catches Road Runner.




Actually he does catch the Road Runner in the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAyNh6MCHws


----------



## drsmith (18 July 2013)

Calliope said:


> The point is I think, that Wily Coyote never catches Road Runner.



The reality I think will finish the other way around.

Kev's currently going harder to try and catch Tony Abbott.


----------



## Julia (18 July 2013)

explod said:


> Was not able to log into that article Julia.
> 
> Would it be possible for it to be posted up perhaps.
> 
> Thank you in anticipation.



Sorry explod.  I tried clicking on the link and was able to bring the story up.  If access is barred because of the Australian's pay wall after the first couple of paragraphs, all you need to do is to copy the header, then paste it into a new Google search which will bring up the original article, unimpeded by the pay wall.

Thanks to sptrawler for posting the complete op ed piece.


----------



## drsmith (18 July 2013)

In terms of scale, Kevin Rudd's pre-election campaign is impressive,


----------



## sptrawler (18 July 2013)

I think this more represents Kev and his policy.


----------



## dutchie (19 July 2013)

From Mark Knight - Herald Sun.






Another photo opportunity (Look at me, Look at me, Look at me)


----------



## basilio (19 July 2013)

I think we'll another thousand personal attacks on Kevin Rudd in The Hun and Australian. It's probably the most effective way of undermining him.  You certainly wouldn't want to engage in policy debate or anything to do with direction of the country.


----------



## Calliope (19 July 2013)

Stopping the boats appears to be Rudd's only stumbling block to election victory. Richo gets it right;



> My final advice to the PM: go back to the Indonesians with a bucket full of money to get them to stop the boats and zip out to Yarralumla and call the election for late August


----------



## Calliope (20 July 2013)

Since Mr Rudd proclaimed that he will decide who comes to Australia and not the Greens and the do-gooders, the most popular criticism by the extreme left is that he is "lurching to the right". I think the word "lurch" is very apt, but like the original Lurch, I think he is more comical than scary.


----------



## drsmith (20 July 2013)

Calliope said:


> Stopping the boats appears to be Rudd's only stumbling block to election victory. Richo gets it right;



unsurprising comment from Richo. Labor's solution to everything seems to involve as a propriety not just buckets, but truckloads of money.

The results speak for themselves.


----------



## drsmith (26 July 2013)

Now the gloss is waring off, it would appear the panic within is re-emerging,



> The Australian has confirmed "friction" within the government as the Expenditure Review Committee meets today to finalise an economic statement likely to be delivered by Chris Bowen as early as next week.
> 
> But with revenues believed to have dropped by up to $6 billion since the May budget, Labor MPs and campaign officials have become increasingly nervous about the political impact of more spending cuts before the election.
> 
> ...




With time, it will only become more evident that the Labor cart regardless of leader still has the same wobbly wheels.

If Labor don't announce the election date soon, it will be proof that plan A for the election under Rudd 2 has failed.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...-surplus-promise/story-fn59nsif-1226685248384


----------



## Calliope (1 August 2013)

*Underbelly!!*


----------



## Knobby22 (1 August 2013)

TinTin the crime fighter. Where's the little dog Scotty?


----------



## Julia (1 August 2013)

Good to know that the NSW taxpayer will be funding the legal counsel for Obeid and McDonald at the rate of thousands a day.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (2 August 2013)

Mr.Rudd has the vote of so many people I have never met, it makes me feel that I live in a parallel universe.

I find his tomfoolery glib and inglorious.

What do the bogans in shopping centres see in him?

God help the ALP if he gets them over the line.

gg


----------



## sptrawler (2 August 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Mr.Rudd has the vote of so many people I have never met, it makes me feel that I live in a parallel universe.
> 
> I find his tomfoolery glib and inglorious.
> 
> ...




Yes the advert with him standing in front of the chart, with the silly grin on his face, telling us how well we are doing.
Seems as though he, not you, is in a parallel universe.


----------



## dutchie (7 August 2013)

I want to see a selfie of Ruddsie in his onesie.


----------



## moXJO (7 August 2013)

dutchie said:


> I want to see a selfie of Ruddsie in his onesie.




Well he wants a facebook debate, maybe he can wear the latest internet trend and keep up with looking hip and cool.


----------



## Calliope (7 August 2013)

Kevin has a bad hair day.


----------



## sptrawler (7 August 2013)

Here is another laugh from Rudd, he says he won't increase gst.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-07/rudd-vows-no-gst-changes-under-his-government/4870126

That's funny coming from a government that has introduced an electricity consumption tax and now talking about a bank deposit tax, which will hit everyone.lol

Doesn't he just crack you up. 
He doesn't need to increase the consumption tax, just introduce new ones.


----------



## Miss Hale (7 August 2013)

dutchie said:


> I want to see a selfie of Ruddsie in his onesie.




LOL, classic


----------



## noco (7 August 2013)

Word of Rudd!!

Kevin Rudd, February 27, 2012:

To Julia I would say this.... You will have my absolute support in your efforts to bring us to victory. I will not under any circumstances mount a challenge against your leadership. I go one step further. If anyone turns on Julia in the 18 months ahead.... Julia - you will find me in your corner against them.

Rudd, March 21, 2013:

WHEN I say to my parliamentary colleagues and to the people at large across Australia that I would not challenge for the Labor leadership I believe in honouring my word. Others treat such commitments lightly.

I do not.

March 22 statement:

MR Rudd has said consistently over the last 12 months that he would not challenge for the Labor leadership and that he would contest the next election as a local member of parliament at the next election.... Furthermore, Mr Rudd wishes to make 100 per cent clear.... that there are no circumstances under which he will return to the Labor Party leadership in the future.

Rudd, doorstop, March 22:

IN political life we live by our word. We live by whether we honour our word. And the good people of Australia observe that over a lifetime.... I have said time and time again that I would not challenge in the future for the leadership of the Labor Party - I believe in honouring my word. Furthermore, had I done the reverse and simply gone out there and challenged, each and every one of you here today, as journalists, here in Brisbane and around the country, would quite rightly have attacked me for a loss of credibility for having walked back on my word.

So much for 'the word of Rudd'- F*****ng lying HYPOCRITE !!!!!

Some of us will remember what he said.

Most of us would have forgotten what he said.


----------



## Zedd (7 August 2013)

> There's no way a GST will ever be part of our policy




****ing lying hypocrites...


----------



## Julia (7 August 2013)

Zedd said:


> ****ing lying hypocrites...



Circumstances change.
Mr Howard at least took that policy to an election.  You absolutely cannot say the same for any of the multiple incarnations of Labor.
Completely different from e.g. Gillard firmly and irrevocably announcing that "there will be no carbon tax under a government I lead' leading up to the election, and then - when having cobbled together a minority government courtesy of the Greens and Independents, doing a complete about face and imposing a carbon tax.

In the one instance, the policy was put to the electorate.  In the other, it absolutely was not.


----------



## noco (7 August 2013)

Zedd said:


> ****ing lying hypocrites...




What are you talking about Zedd?


----------



## Zedd (7 August 2013)

noco said:


> What are you talking about Zedd?




Sorry, I thought that was a fairly obvious tongue-in-cheek dig about lying politicians. Quote was from Howard insisting never ever will a GST be part of the Liberal's policy platform. Was trying to point out that back-flipping/correcting/changing one's stance has not disqualified people in the past from being exceptional politicians. 

Julia - Agree that the magnitude of broken promises/backflips in the recent Labor governments have been simply outstanding and will be held up as examples for generations to come.
In their defence, I filter all political promises and policies through the following two translations:
1. "Never ever" means "not in the current foreseeable circumstances"
2. "Not while I'm in charge" / "Not in our government" means not if we have a majority in both houses.

Minority government, coupled with the fact that the bill would have passed (with a mandate) in the previous term if not for Abbott overthrowing Turnbull, was good enough for me to let her off the hook on the carbon tax. 

I expect much the same compromises/backflips of Abbott's promises if he gets the lower house but fails as is likely to secure a majority in the senate.


----------



## noco (7 August 2013)

Zedd said:


> Sorry, I thought that was a fairly obvious tongue-in-cheek dig about lying politicians. Quote was from Howard insisting never ever will a GST be part of the Liberal's policy platform. Was trying to point out that back-flipping/correcting/changing one's stance has not disqualified people in the past from being exceptional politicians.
> 
> Julia - Agree that the magnitude of broken promises/backflips in the recent Labor governments have been simply outstanding and will be held up as examples for generations to come.
> In their defence, I filter all political promises and policies through the following two translations:
> ...




Zedd, the statement made by Howard about no GST was made in his first term and he did not break that promise. Lets be honest now and stop trying to twist things around as does the Labor Party. You have elaborated on that statement without stating the truth.  He then went to the next election with the policy and received a mandate from the voters. It is called democracy.

Do you understand what the GST replaced? If you don't know, I will be happy to explain it to you for you are obviously convinced that it added 10% to everything you purchased.

At least with the GST you are made aware of how much you are paying unlike the big Carbon Dioxide  tax which is a hidden cost added to almost everything you buy. I would sooner pay 12.5 % GST and know what I am paying for rather than be purchasing something that may be costing you and me more than an extra 2.5 %. Just look at your electricity bill which has gone up more than 10% since the introduction of the Carbon Tax. Whoops!! no it is a carbon price not a tax.

If Abbott does win this election, he will have a mandate to dump the carbon tax and I do trust the Greens and the Labor Party will honour the will of voters for Abbott to carry out what he says he will do. If they don't we will be goimg to a double dissolution of parliament within 12 months.

It is called DEMOCRACY.


----------



## Julia (7 August 2013)

Zedd said:


> Sorry, I thought that was a fairly obvious tongue-in-cheek dig about lying politicians. Quote was from Howard insisting never ever will a GST be part of the Liberal's policy platform.



Yes, you made that clear.  Then you said 







> ****ing lying hypocrites...



 quite clearly implying that John Howard had been a hypocrite over the GST.



> Was trying to point out that back-flipping/correcting/changing one's stance has not disqualified people in the past from being exceptional politicians.



Really?  You made no reference to Howard or anyone else being an 'exceptional politician'.  Seemed to me to be quite clearly an attempt to paint John Howard as duplicitous in instituting a GST without reference to going to the people on this, something he was very definite about doing.

It's this sort of less than honest type of comment that is so symptomatic of not only politicians but many of their disciples.  Why can't we just stick with what was actually said and/or what actually happened.

There is an archetypal example in the last couple of days over interest rates where Joe Hockey suggested the latest cut by the RB was a response to a flagging economy.  Labor attempted to paint this as Mr Hockey saying interest rate cuts were a bad thing.  So dishonest.  Such a shame to see this sort of manipulative stuff echoed on ASF.


----------



## drsmith (8 August 2013)

Today's primary school lesson in prime-ministerial etiquette is not to upstage uncle physco,

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...es_boy_lesson_for_upstaging_him/#commentsmore


----------



## Zedd (8 August 2013)

noco said:


> Do you understand what the GST replaced? If you don't know, I will be happy to explain it to you for you are obviously convinced that it added 10% to everything you purchased.



This is entirely irrelevant to what Howard said, but yes, I'm well aware of what a consumer tax is, and how the GST has simplified, and hopefully with reform will continue to simply the Australian Tax system. Not against the policy at all. Personally would love to see our system boiled down to Corp Tax, Income Tax and Consumer Tax. Period. No more stamp duties, and payroll taxes, CGT, etc.



noco said:


> At least with the GST you are made aware of how much you are paying unlike the big Carbon Dioxide  tax which is a hidden cost added to almost everything you buy. I would sooner pay 12.5 % GST and know what I am paying for rather than be purchasing something that may be costing you and me more than an extra 2.5 %. Just look at your electricity bill which has gone up more than 10% since the introduction of the Carbon Tax. Whoops!! no it is a carbon price not a tax.



 Again, off topic, but couldn't let this slide being one of my favourites.. The Carbon Tax is, arguably, not for the purpose of raising revenue like the GST. Its intent is to use monetary forces to change behaviour, much in the same way as taxes on cigarettes. If behaviour changes sufficiently its purpose will be finished and it will be phased out.

If you want to debate taking action to limit/decrease carbon dioxide emissions go ahead, but please stop with the - carbon tax, whoops, carbon price, whoops, ETS, whoops, direct action etc - as it shows a clear lack of comprehension on your behalf as to the different approaches, suggested policies, implemented policies and overall the details of the debate. And for the record, I'm pissed that Labor doesn't have the guts to re-iterate the details and explain that the legislation passed which included the Carbon Tax, also included a transitions to a ETS, and that bringing it forward by a year is not scrapping it, it is not removing the price on carbon and flow on effects to living pressures, and that yes, in the long run there's a good chance the price will be much higher than the current fixed price!



> If Abbott does win this election, he will have a mandate to dump the carbon tax and I do trust the Greens and the Labor Party will honour the will of voters for Abbott to carry out what he says he will do. If they don't we will be goimg to a double dissolution of parliament within 12 months.
> 
> It is called DEMOCRACY.



Yep. In the same way Rudd had a mandate to implement the ETS in his first term... Calling a DD is a massive decision, and I think you'll find Abbott would rather negotiate than do so. Especially if the Greens are the blocking force in the senate as I don't think you'll find Green voters changing their minds at a DD election if the sole topic is a price on Carbon.



noco said:


> Zedd, the statement made by Howard about no GST was made in his first term and he did not break that promise.






Julia said:


> Yes, you made that clear.  Then you said  quite clearly implying that John Howard had been a hypocrite over the GST.






Julia said:


> It's this sort of less than honest type of comment that is so symptomatic of not only politicians but many of their disciples.  Why can't we just stick with what was actually said and/or what actually happened.




My recollection, and given I was still in primary school for the 1996 election is a little hazy, and built with nostalgic clips, was that Howard backtracked on his comments when going into the 1998 election. A quick google and I came up with this: 
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/08/17/1092508474312.html

Thoughts? Comments? Disagree with the quotes used in the article?
Care to compare it to "dead, buried, cremated"?



Julia said:


> Really?  You made no reference to Howard or anyone else being an 'exceptional politician'.  Seemed to me to be quite clearly an attempt to paint John Howard as duplicitous in instituting a GST without reference to going to the people on this, something he was very definite about doing.



Given the off-handed nature of my comment I thought it offered sufficient commentary on noco's post, without me needing to clarify that I was still a fan of Howard, even if he occasionally was a lying politician like they all are at some time, IMO usually in an effort to stop the media brewing a storm in a teacup. I think Howard's initial answers in the above article were perfect, and it's a shame the media and the nature of our elections can't handle simple clear statements, but instead require absolutes which allow no room for changes in circumstances.

I do agree, that once all has been said and done, it is far more preferable for a politician to take a new policy to an election for a mandate then to push it through, and leave it for the next election to see if it will be repealed. Howard's comments on GST during the 1996 election were either dishonest, or he backtracked. His decision to wait until the 1998 election to seek a mandate was in good character, and worthy of respect. His move to push Work Choices through without seeking a mandate, was seen in a dim light, much the same as the majority see the implementation of the Carbon Tax, and I understand this POV, without holding it myself.

Back on topic, I believe that in the current media climate, not only did Rudd not have an alternative, but IMO the responsible thing to do, was to repeatedly confirm that there was no chance of a leadership challenge. 



Julia said:


> There is an archetypal example in the last couple of days over interest rates where Joe Hockey suggested the latest cut by the RB was a response to a flagging economy.  Labor attempted to paint this as Mr Hockey saying interest rate cuts were a bad thing.  So dishonest.  Such a shame to see this sort of manipulative stuff echoed on ASF.




I hope the "echo" on ASF that you're referring to isn't myself. If it is, please direct me to the offending comment as I obviously need to clarify my posts, again.


----------



## IFocus (8 August 2013)

Zedd said:


> ****ing lying hypocrites...




Any form of tax reform will have to with increasing and widening then base of the GST, if Abbott is a true Liberal then I think you are correct


----------



## drsmith (8 August 2013)

While it shouldn't necessarily be increased as an end in itself, there's nothing wrong with the GST being reconsidered as part of a broad tax reform agenda. As a matter of simplicity though, any increase should first revolve around broadening the base ahead of raising the rate.

Any sensible government would present any change to the GST to the electorate before implementation. Howard/GST and Gillard/Carbon Tax is the historical lesson here.


----------



## noco (8 August 2013)

It is very apparent, Rudd ignored the warnings from the experts that his home insulation scheme could be a problem and cause deaths if installers were not properly trained. One public servant was told to ignore it as the main aim was to create jobs.

I understand Peter Garrett also warned Rudd on four occassions, but in the end Garrett took the fall.

Rudd may well have blood on his hands at the end of this enquiry.



http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...rudd_accused_in_home_insulation_legal_action/


----------



## Julia (8 August 2013)

drsmith said:


> While it shouldn't necessarily be increased as an end in itself, there's nothing wrong with the GST being reconsidered as part of a broad tax reform agenda. As a matter of simplicity though, any increase should first revolve around broadening the base ahead of raising the rate.



This has inherent problems essentially around the increasing epidemic of obesity.  We are supposed to be encouraging people to consume fresh fruit and vegetables rather than much cheaper packaged crap.
If you broaden the GST to apply to fresh products, you're sending an impossibly mixed message.
Sure, you could offer greater compensation, but what would be the bet that  that would simply be spent on more rubbish, smokes, alcohol or the pokies?
The people who make sensible decisions about diet are going to do so pretty much regardless of cost imo, so applying the GST to fresh produce is just going to give too many people an excuse to continue piling their trolleys with cartons of Coke and packets of chips.



> Any sensible government would present any change to the GST to the electorate before implementation. Howard/GST and Gillard/Carbon Tax is the historical lesson here.




Yes, you'd hope the lesson would have been learned by now.


Zedd said:


> . Calling a DD is a massive decision, and I think you'll find Abbott would rather negotiate than do so.



I'd have thought so too.  But Mr Abbott has clearly stated he will not negotiate with minor parties to form government, so strong is his belief that minority government is not what Australia needs (again).
Whilst it sounds good to have such a high minded principle, I'm pretty surprised that he would so irrevocably wipe out one possible way to form government if (heaven forbid) it came to that again.  After he tried so desperately to persuade the Independents last time round, I wonder at his preparedness to campaign hard after so many years in opposition, only to toss away government if it were to involve some negotiation with minor parties.
Perhaps I'm missing something here?  Would be interested in others' views.


> Especially if the Greens are the blocking force in the senate as I don't think you'll find Green voters changing their minds at a DD election if the sole topic is a price on Carbon.



Agree.


----------



## drsmith (8 August 2013)

Julia said:


> This has inherent problems essentially around the increasing epidemic of obesity.  We are supposed to be encouraging people to consume fresh fruit and vegetables rather than much cheaper packaged crap.
> If you broaden the GST to apply to fresh products, you're sending an impossibly mixed message.



I'm of the view that the role of taxes should be first and foremost the simple and efficient collection of tax. 

Influencing what people do and do not eat is in my view not a primary role of tax collection. That perhaps belongs more in the area of education.


----------



## Julia (8 August 2013)

drsmith said:


> I'm of the view that the role of taxes should be first and foremost the simple and efficient collection of tax.
> 
> Influencing what people do and do not eat is in my view not a primary role of tax collection. That perhaps belongs more in the area of education.



Ideally, yes.  But - given the massive amount of education out there and the relentlessly increasing obesity - it just ain't working.
Obesity is the cause of so many diseases.  If it were possible to counteract the trend, that would probably save more in health funds than any broadening of the GST.


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## MACCA350 (9 August 2013)

Julia said:


> Obesity is the cause of so many diseases.  If it were possible to counteract the trend, that would probably save more in health funds than any broadening of the GST.



There was an interesting story on obesity on Catalyst last night
http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/3821440.htm

Cheers


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## Knobby22 (9 August 2013)

MACCA350 said:


> There was an interesting story on obesity on Catalyst last night
> http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/3821440.htm
> 
> Cheers




I saw it too Macca. It was excellent. Worth 15 minutes watching it everyone. I plan to change my diet slightly and I am a pretty healthy eater.


----------



## Julia (9 August 2013)

What was the basic hypothesis?


----------



## MACCA350 (9 August 2013)

Julia said:


> What was the basic hypothesis?



Basically increased sugar in the food supply increases insulin which increases fat deposition. Sugar also suppresses Ghrelin(the full feeling) which increases appetite and consumption.

- The low fat/fat free revolution of the 70's caused the food industry to increase sugar to compensate(some low fat versions contain 6x more sugar).

- Higher sugar content makes food taste better increasing the impulse to eat more. 

- Almost everything with a food label has sugar added.

- "If you constantly provide carbohydrates to the body, you'll have constantly high insulin levels, and that will lead to increased fat deposition in tissues."

- "The higher your insulin, the more likely you are to store fat, because insulin is the main hormone that puts fat into fat cells."

- "Sugar is a simple carbohydrate made of two molecules, glucose and fructose. This bond is cleaved in the gut before they're absorbed. It's been shown that glucose mainly drives fat storage under the skin, and fructose deposits fat around organs, like the liver."

- "Chronically high levels of fructose is not only toxic to your liver - it messes with the hormones that control appetite."

- "when you consume sugar, fructose does not get registered by the brain as you having eaten. Ghrelin doesn't change. You stay hungry."

- "Our fat consumption has stayed exactly the same over the last 30 years. And look at the disaster that has befallen us. And that is because our consumption of dietary carbohydrate has gone through the roof. Anything that drives insulin up will drive weight gain."

- "Professor Lustig says it's easy to fall into the trappings of sugary food, because the more you eat, the more you want. MRI scans show that sugar triggers the same reward centres in the brain as nicotine, alcohol or cocaine."

- "Until now, each generation has always had a longer lifespan than the previous. But it's been predicted this current generation won't. And obesity is to blame. Even if we act now, it'll take a generation or two to turn the tide around. And if our experts are right, the weight of the nation rests of the shoulders of the food industry."


----------



## Julia (9 August 2013)

Thanks Macca.  Good of you to provide so much detail.
I'm a bit surprised, though, to think it's in any way groundbreaking research.
We've known about added sugar for a long time.  Ditto salt and fat.

Too many people simply don't think about what they're eating.  It tastes good.  They eat it.  They get fatter.

If one eats primarily fresh fruit and vegetables, has adequate protein (you don't need all that much), then imo there's nothing wrong with eg a little butter on the vegetables, small amounts of sugar/chocolate.

A big improvement would be to avoid most starch.  If you don't have the bowl of pasta (not much more than flour and water with minimal nutritional value) you're not going to have the fat laden sauce which - if it's packaged -
probably contains trans fats.  And if you don't have the similarly minimally nutritious bread, you're probably not going to have a heap of toppings either.

Anyway, we've rather diverting the thread.


----------



## dutchie (9 August 2013)

Rudd to include food in GST and increase rate to 25%

Increases price of a jar of Vegemite by $3


----------



## Knobby22 (9 August 2013)

dutchie said:


> Rudd to include food in GST and increase rate to 25%
> 
> Increases price of a jar of Vegemite by $3




No dutchie, it is the Coalition who want to but they said they would look at it at the next election not this one. Rudd is saying if you vote coalition, then GST will be put on food.


----------



## noco (9 August 2013)

Knobby22 said:


> No dutchie, it is the Coalition who want to but they said they would look at it at the next election not this one. Rudd is saying if you vote coalition, then GST will be put on food.




Rudd is using scare tactics again. Why can't he tell the truth for once. The coalition will not increase the GST in its first term but it will be reviewed and if it is agreed upon, it will be put to the people in 2016 to decide at the ballot box.

I would prefer him to sit down with a trusted economist and do the equation on what his Carbon Dioxide tax has added to the cost of living, starting with electricity which affects every business. I heard of a small Brumby bakery whose electricity went from $800 to $1000 per month. It was the last straw that broke the camels back for the owner for they were on set prices under their franchise agreement. Had they been able to pass ot on, a loaf of bread would have cost a lot more.

He made a big deal out of his announcement that he is scrapping the carbon tax and reverting to the ETS one year earlier. What he is not telling us is the ETS could rise from $6 per tonne to $38 per tonne in a few years.

Rudd is a man not to be trusted. He is worse than Gillard with his modus operandi of putting fairy dust on everything he talks about.


----------



## sptrawler (9 August 2013)

Knobby22 said:


> No dutchie, it is the Coalition who want to but they said they would look at it at the next election not this one. Rudd is saying if you vote coalition, then GST will be put on food.




Like I said before, Labor introduced another consumption tax with the carbon tax. Everyone uses electricity one way or another. So why doesn't Abbott turn it on him?


----------



## Zedd (9 August 2013)

noco said:


> Rudd is using scare tactics again. Why can't he tell the truth for once. The coalition will not increase the GST in its first term but it will be reviewed and if it is agreed upon, it will be put to the people in 2016 to decide at the ballot box.



 Agree. Interesting that they think this sort of scare tactic would work. 



noco said:


> I would prefer him to sit down with a trusted economist and do the equation on what his Carbon Dioxide tax has added to the cost of living, starting with electricity which affects every business. I heard of a small Brumby bakery whose electricity went from $800 to $1000 per month.



 Hasn't a review (independent I think) already taken place and the findings clearly showed that something like 80%+ of price hikes have occurred due to maintenance & installation costs with some suggesting excessive "gold-plating", and that the carbon tax has added somewhere around 10%? Never good to hear someone's gone out of business. Always disappointing to hear misdirected anger. 



noco said:


> He made a big deal out of his announcement that he is scrapping the carbon tax and reverting to the ETS one year earlier. What he is not telling us is the ETS could rise from $6 per tonne to $38 per tonne in a few years.



 And what Abbott's not telling us is that if catastrophic climate change occurs the cost is going to be significantly more. If you support action on carbon emissions what policy would you prefer noco? If not, then it doesn't matter what the price is you're going to think Rudd is wasting our time and money, and likewise must think Abbott's direct action policy is a waste of money also.

And yes, Rudd is attempting to spin any and all policies on pricing carbon. You're absolutely right. Don't trust the spin he tries to put on the policy, simply read the policy itself.


----------



## dutchie (9 August 2013)

Knobby22 said:


> No dutchie, it is the Coalition who want to but they said they would look at it at the next election not this one. Rudd is saying if you vote coalition, then GST will be put on food.




And I'm saying Labor will put a GST on food if they win.


----------



## GoodCall (9 August 2013)

Knobby22 said:


> I saw it too Macca. It was excellent. Worth 15 minutes watching it everyone. I plan to change my diet slightly and I am a pretty healthy eater.




I skimmed the story.  What was said about insulin levels and carbohydrates is misleading.  I noticed the names of Gary Taubes and Lustig.  Taubes' theories are controversial and he is well known to quote other authors out of context.   I am surprised that Catalyst allowed this faddish pseudo-science into a mainstream science program.  This dis-information is just the familiar dogma for the very low carbohydrate "paleo" diet.

Btw, if fructose is so bad for you, then fruit must also be bad for you.


----------



## Knobby22 (9 August 2013)

dutchie said:


> And I'm saying Labor will put a GST on food if they win.




Yes, the Libs used that as a scare campaign in country Victoria in the previous election. My sister who lives in Castlemaine really believed it. 

But we know the Murdoch camp is in favour raising the GST so it will be Abbott who will have to resist it. 

The GST is a tax on average people so it is the rich and powerful that want it. We can all only eat so much food, so if they tax it, it will affect families and poorer people most. It really should be against Liberal policy as the "family" party. Thankfully it is not going to happen this term but watch out.

- - - Updated - - -



GoodCall said:


> I skimmed the story.  What was said about insulin levels and carbohydrates is misleading.  I noticed the names of Gary Taubes and Lustig.  Taubes' theories are controversial and he is well known to quote other authors out of context.   I am surprised that Catalyst allowed this faddish pseudo-science into a mainstream science program.  This dis-information is just the familiar dogma for the very low carbohydrate "paleo" diet.
> 
> Btw, if fructose is so bad for you, then fruit must also be bad for you.




Fruit isn't bad for you but drinking the fruit equivalent of 30 pieces of fruit is. Watch the doco. then decide.


----------



## Julia (9 August 2013)

dutchie said:


> Rudd to include food in GST and increase rate to 25%
> 
> Increases price of a jar of Vegemite by $3






Knobby22 said:


> No dutchie, it is the Coalition who want to but they said they would look at it at the next election not this one. Rudd is saying if you vote coalition, then GST will be put on food.



Knobby, dutchie's post was surely tongue in  cheek.  No one would be suggesting including food and increasing the rate to 25%.
I read his post as the very accurate observation that Rudd is raising a completely baseless scare campaign on the GST directed toward the Abbott side, and that it would make as much sense to suggest Rudd himself is intending to raise the GST to 25%.

I don't know how they can engage in this sort of completely dishonest obfuscation.  Mr Abbott has absolutely clearly ruled out any change to the GST in this term if he is elected.  He has simply agreed that we need an overall thorough look at the whole tax system which would quite obviously include the GST.

The Henry Review largely did this, but the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd government chose to ignore that useful document because it didn't suit their political purposes at the time.



GoodCall said:


> I skimmed the story.  What was said about insulin levels and carbohydrates is misleading.  I noticed the names of Gary Taubes and Lustig.  Taubes' theories are controversial and he is well known to quote other authors out of context.   I am surprised that Catalyst allowed this faddish pseudo-science into a mainstream science program.  This dis-information is just the familiar dogma for the very low carbohydrate "paleo" diet.
> 
> Btw, if fructose is so bad for you, then fruit must also be bad for you.



+1.  Minus 10 to Catalyst in this instance.


----------



## noco (9 August 2013)

Zedd said:


> Agree. Interesting that they think this sort of scare tactic would work.
> 
> Hasn't a review (independent I think) already taken place and the findings clearly showed that something like 80%+ of price hikes have occurred due to maintenance & installation costs with some suggesting excessive "gold-plating", and that the carbon tax has added somewhere around 10%? Never good to hear someone's gone out of business. Always disappointing to hear misdirected anger.
> 
> ...




Whilst I realize this may be off the topic, candidly speaking I am a sceptic when it comes to talking about climate change but remember when this crap was first mooted it was Global warming of which it has been proven there has been no change in Global warming for 16 years so they then started talking about Climate Change. Do you recall Tim Flannery, who is Labors Climate change Commisioner on $180,000 per year to do three days work a week and who has some 1000 public servants in his climate change department, stating back in 2007 the rains would stop and never fill the dams again so the three naive Labor Party states of Queensland , NSW and Victoria wasted billions of dollars on constructing desal plants which are now all in mothballs. So whether you talk about a carbon tax, an ETS or direct action, none of them is neccessary and I am also talking about the direct action by the Coalition. The carbon tax or the ETS will do nothing to change the climate and neither will the direct action.
The Labor Party are after revenue and has nothing to do with the environment. The Coalition are promoting their direct action to appease everyone into believing they are doing something about Green House gases. A policy, which in my mind is a waste of money and I certainly oppose it..

Jedd, I am now well into my 80's and I have lived through more changes to climate than you would have had hot dinners.I worked for many years in South West Queensland on various sheep stations. I have been through many dorughts, floods and fires. I was marooned for three weeks on one station where the homestead was sitting on an inland Island surrounded by water. There were no helicopters to drop off food supllies. The station owners and their ancesters had been through it plenty of times before. They knew these changes to climate had been occuring for centuries. They had their sheep. cows for milking, poultry and they grew their own vegetables as well as a good stock of non perishables in their pantries.
The majority of these pioneers in good times grew some 500 acres of silage which was buried underground and was good for 11 years to feed thier sheep and cattle in drought conditions. There was never any shortage of water even though their ground tanks were dry, there was always plenty of bore water.

So I guess by now you realize you have hit a nerve when you start talking about climate change.


----------



## noco (9 August 2013)

Your eyes will pop out of your head when you read the link below.

In short, Kevein Rudd and his wife Therese Rein set up Ingeus while Rudd was Chief of staff for the then Premier of Queensland Wayne Goss. Goss was a board director of Ingeus and Chairman of Deoitte untill just recently.

Rudd had legislation passed through parliament which was of benifit to his wife's business. 

If this had occured to Tony Abbotts wife, the Labor Party would have been all over it and demanding a Royal Commission.

It is all there to read in the attached link.

http://kangaroocourtofaustralia.com...eus-ltd-the-obeids-of-the-federal-government/


----------



## GoodCall (9 August 2013)

Knobby22 said:


> Fruit isn't bad for you but drinking the fruit equivalent of 30 pieces of fruit is. Watch the doco. then decide.




Over indulging in any food will put a strain on the body, whether it be fat, sugar or protein.  Who regularly drinks 4 plus Litres of fruit juice at a time?  The excess water would be more of a worry.

Dr Lustig has asserted that "fructose is alcohol without the buzz" - basic organic chemistry fail.

I understand this is off topic and I don't mean to divert the thread, I just can't let this one go without pointing out the pseudo-science involved.


----------



## burglar (9 August 2013)

GoodCall said:


> Over indulging in any food will put a strain on the body, whether it be fat, sugar or protein.  Who regularly drinks 4 plus Litres of fruit juice at a time?  The excess water would be more of a worry.
> 
> Dr Lustig has asserted that "fructose is alcohol without the buzz" - basic organic chemistry fail.
> 
> I understand this is off topic and I don't mean to divert the thread, I just can't let this one go without pointing out the pseudo-science involved.




Fructose is not bad for you. Nor is fruit.
Excessive fructose is bad for you. 
Fruit is different to fructose, as it contains roughage and stuff.

This program of so-called pseudo-science made more sense than anything I have seen or read in two decades.



Now back to the topic!!


----------



## dutchie (10 August 2013)

Julia said:


> Knobby, dutchie's post was surely tongue in  cheek.  No one would be suggesting including food and increasing the rate to 25%.
> I read his post as the very accurate observation that Rudd is raising a completely baseless scare campaign on the GST directed toward the Abbott side, and that it would make as much sense to suggest Rudd himself is intending to raise the GST to 25%.
> 
> I don't know how they can engage in this sort of completely dishonest obfuscation.  Mr Abbott has absolutely clearly ruled out any change to the GST in this term if he is elected.  He has simply agreed that we need an overall thorough look at the whole tax system which would quite obviously include the GST.
> ...





Your very sharp Julia


----------



## sptrawler (10 August 2013)

This is a sad indictment of Kev and Labor's time in office, if the report is accurate.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/bu...ink-data-reveals/story-fni0d8zj-1226693093577

One wonders if the reports of strong support for Labor, from the younger generation is correct.


----------



## db94 (10 August 2013)

sptrawler said:


> This is a sad indictment of Kev and Labor's time in office, if the report is accurate.
> 
> http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/bu...ink-data-reveals/story-fni0d8zj-1226693093577
> 
> One wonders if the reports of strong support for Labor, from the younger generation is correct.




im 19 and i can say that i wont be voting for Labor. Unfortunately most of my friends will because they think Rudds a 'good bloke'


----------



## sails (10 August 2013)

db94 said:


> im 19 and i can say that i wont be voting for Labor. Unfortunately most of my friends will because they think Rudds a 'good bloke'




I guess they don't realise Rudd lied to school kids yesterday about the coalition raising  GST.  If he's going to lie, then lie to the  grown ups but not to kids. What a shocking role model!

And I guess these mates don't  realise many in labor hate Rudd and there's a good chance he won't survive long after the election, IMO. Rudd has made noises about securing his position but I suspect the unions have ensured there is an escape plan.  Seems no point voting for a leader who might not survive the term. 

Well done for making up your own mind, DB!


----------



## Zedd (10 August 2013)

noco said:


> So whether you talk about a carbon tax, an ETS or direct action, none of them is necessary and I am also talking about the direct action by the Coalition. The carbon tax or the ETS will do nothing to change the climate and neither will the direct action.



See! Doesn't that feel better just saying it. If you don't believe the science then why not just say so, plenty of people do, rather than try and pick holes in policies that are trying to solve a problem that you don't think exists. 



noco said:


> I am now well into my 80's and I have lived through more changes to climate than you would have had hot dinners. ... So I guess by now you realize you have hit a nerve when you start talking about climate change.



Climate does change, always has, always will. People have adapted as required when changes do occur, and life goes on. The planet is largely in balance and moves through a stable oscillation from one extreme to the other. My concern is that our actions may speed up the oscillations, or worse, disrupt the stabilizers such that we move into an unstable oscillation. Then we're ****ed.

The underlying greenhouse effect theory is simple, and proven. Whether the evidence shows significant global warming is occurring now or not is irrelevant IMO. Personally I'm not up to date with the latest back-and-forth on temperature measurements, or the latest modeling, and it is incredibly painful to try and find actual science vs propaganda nowadays. What I'm concerned with is how far we can stretch the rubber band before it snaps.  

So, it touches a nerve for me when people suggest there's nothing to worry about, as if the fact that we haven't ****ed the planet by now proves we're not going to any time soon. 

It also touches a nerve when people, and parties for that matter, use it as a tool to justify other ends, as it trivialized a serious issue. Costs of living are a serious concern and shouldn't be increased lightly. I think it is entirely valid to debate whether Australia's actions will amount to anything, I think it is entirely valid to discuss which policies if any will be the most effective, or fairest.  

But it really touches a nerve, when people's political views start to colour their perception of the science, and then try and twist the science to further their own political ambitions. When people lump every last little offhand comment together to somehow justify action or inaction without going to the core of the matter is infuriating. 



noco said:


> ... so the three naive Labor Party states of Queensland , NSW and Victoria wasted billions of dollars on constructing desal plants which are now all in mothballs




Great example. The desalination plant on the Gold Coast, and the SE QLD water grid which links major dams to the desal, and the recycled water plants, were the solution to the fact that we haven't increased our water supplies in line with population growth. Droughts happen, they're not a recent occurrence due to man-made climate changes. Either new dams, population restrictions, or this infrastructure was needed. Personally I support the idea of running a pipeline all the way up to Cairns to shift water supplies around the entire state. But the way it was implemented was absolutely abysmal, and I saw first hand just how much money was wasted on those projects. And the way some politicians spruiked it as action on climate change made me grind my teeth. 

This infrastructure project is also a great way of comparing the current choice between Rudd and Abbott. Rudd has big ideas, similar to this, which will be required in the long run. His record so far is that if he's allowed to implement them they probably will serve Australia well going forward, but there's a good chance we'll pay more then we need to, that small business will be stepped on to get the job done, and that there'll be some stuff up along the way, that if left to fester into a scandal will most likely cause the end of the project before it's complete.

Vs Abbott who's biggest idea so far is to consider the top-end for renovation.


----------



## sptrawler (10 August 2013)

db94 said:


> im 19 and i can say that i wont be voting for Labor. Unfortunately most of my friends will because they think Rudds a 'good bloke'




Yes, unfortunately when you are young it is easy to think that spend, spend, spend sounds better than hey let's tighten the belt.

When you get a lot older, you realise you can't keep spending more than you earn ad infinitum, eventually it catches up with you. 

But it sounds much cooler when your a spender.


----------



## noco (10 August 2013)

How in the hell did Rudd and Beattie get together when Beattie regards Rudd to be lower than a rattle snakes belly.

They are both a pair of rats that could not lie staright in bed. They are both from different factions.

I can't see the hatchet buried for too long.


http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...very_word_fior_the_liberals_written_by_labor/


----------



## sptrawler (10 August 2013)

noco said:


> How in the hell did Rudd and Beattie get together when Beattie regards Rudd to be lower than a rattle snakes belly.
> 
> They are both a pair of rats that could not lie staright in bed. They are both from different factions.
> 
> ...




Hey, it would be a great top up for Beattie's State pension.


----------



## drsmith (10 August 2013)

Peter Beattie's quotes from 2010 to the present,

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...-and-treacherous/story-fn72xczz-1226693821178


----------



## sptrawler (10 August 2013)

drsmith said:


> Peter Beattie's quotes from 2010 to the present,
> 
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...-and-treacherous/story-fn72xczz-1226693821178




But unlike a lot of caucus, that walked out on principle, Beattie walks in showing a lack of principles. IMO

That sort of false loyalty has never been rewarded, throughout history.lol
Dates back to the last supper.


----------



## noco (10 August 2013)

drsmith said:


> Peter Beattie's quotes from 2010 to the present,
> 
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...-and-treacherous/story-fn72xczz-1226693821178




Maybe Beattie just might have in mind to become Labor Party leader in opposition if Rudd gets defeated and then disposed by the new 75% rule.


----------



## medicowallet (10 August 2013)

Zedd said:


> The underlying greenhouse effect theory is simple, and proven. Whether the evidence shows significant global warming is occurring now or not is irrelevant IMO. Personally I'm not up to date with the latest back-and-forth on temperature measurements, or the latest modeling, and it is incredibly painful to try and find actual science vs propaganda nowadays. What I'm concerned with is how far we can stretch the rubber band before it snaps.
> 
> So, it touches a nerve for me when people suggest there's nothing to worry about, as if the fact that we haven't ****ed the planet by now proves we're not going to any time soon.




The underlying greenhouse effect is acknowledged by "deniers" and "zealots" alike.

Of course the fact that there is no evidence that there is any warming over the past 16-17 years doesn't matter to you, because your faith doesn't think it matters.

You are making an assumption that there is a rubber band, and that it could snap.  You are prepared to condemn those in third world countries our economic freedom, our food security and our lifestyle because you have made an assumption?    I can tell you that to them, THEY don't care one iota what you think.

So it touches a nerve for me when people suggest there is something we need to panic about.  

I suggest you read some of the science, and some of the contrary views, and form your own opinion as to which group or which person's position can fit the reality, because projections and predictions are just that, and what happens in the real world is what matters.

MW


----------



## drsmith (10 August 2013)

noco said:


> Maybe Beattie just might have in mind to become Labor Party leader in opposition if Rudd gets defeated and then disposed by the new 75% rule.



I think that might have been watered down to 60% in opposition.

If Labor lose, I couldn't imagine Kev staying in any case. Having already been wedded twice, he doesn't strike me as someone who would like to take a second stint in the bridesmaid's dress.


----------



## sptrawler (10 August 2013)

drsmith said:


> I think that might have been watered down to 60% in opposition.
> 
> If Labor lose, I couldn't imagine Kev staying in any case. Having already been wedded twice, he doesn't strike me as someone who would like to take a second stint in the bridesmaid's dress.




Yes he would move onto the guest speaker circuit, where people pay to listen to him. Let's see how that works for him.lol


----------



## noco (10 August 2013)

drsmith said:


> I think that might have been watered down to 60% in opposition.
> 
> If Labor lose, I couldn't imagine Kev staying in any case. Having already been wedded twice, he doesn't strike me as someone who would like to take a second stint in the bridesmaid's dress.




Yes Doc, you are right about that 60 % rule. I overlooked the facr that Rudd will be in opposition after 7th September.


----------



## So_Cynical (11 August 2013)

How does a KRudd for PM thread turn into a spam fest for the ASF right?

I can only see 2 posts on this page because everyone else is on ignore.


----------



## MrBurns (11 August 2013)

So_Cynical said:


> How does a KRudd for PM thread turn into a spam fest for the ASF right?
> 
> I can only see 2 posts on this page because everyone else is on ignore.




Because everyone including his own party despise the very sight of him.


----------



## medicowallet (11 August 2013)

So_Cynical said:


> How does a KRudd for PM thread turn into a spam fest for the ASF right?
> 
> I can only see 2 posts on this page because everyone else is on ignore.




Probably says more about you than K Rudd.

MW


----------



## Zedd (11 August 2013)

medicowallet said:


> The underlying greenhouse effect is acknowledged by "deniers" and "zealots" alike...




I've responded in the Global Warming thread to try and keep this thread free for Rudd bashing instead.


----------



## sydboy007 (11 August 2013)

sptrawler said:


> Yes, unfortunately when you are young it is easy to think that spend, spend, spend sounds better than hey let's tighten the belt.
> 
> When you get a lot older, you realise you can't keep spending more than you earn ad infinitum, eventually it catches up with you.
> 
> But it sounds much cooler when your a spender.




Ah, I'd think most of the $1.4 trillion in mortgage debt is not held by the young.

Definitely little to any negatively geared property for the youngsters too, though they properly accept the subsidised housing with glee.

Profligacy and spendthrift don't seem to know social bounds, age or income levels.  Plenty of boomers hit retirement with substantial debts, only to cash out their super, pay the debt off then hands out for their full pension and associated benefits.


----------



## sptrawler (11 August 2013)

sydboy007 said:


> Ah, I'd think most of the $1.4 trillion in mortgage debt is not held by the young.
> 
> Definitely little to any negatively geared property for the youngsters too, though they properly accept the subsidised housing with glee.
> 
> Profligacy and spendthrift don't seem to know social bounds, age or income levels.  Plenty of boomers hit retirement with substantial debts, only to cash out their super, pay the debt off then hands out for their full pension and associated benefits.




Agree completely, many of my mates are hitting the reality wall, they are hitting 60 and the reality isn't what they expected.
Retirement needs to be thought about in your 20's, when you have chosen your career path, you need then to start planning the rest of your life.


----------



## nioka (11 August 2013)

noco said:


> Maybe Beattie just might have in mind to become Labor Party leader in opposition if Rudd gets defeated and then disposed by the new 75% rule.




Another state of origin contest looming. Beattie versus Carr. ????


----------



## dutchie (11 August 2013)

Rudd cheated by reading notes in debate. Typical.


----------



## db94 (11 August 2013)

dutchie said:


> Rudd cheated by reading notes in debate. Typical.




dont you worry libs will get him for this.

he cheated the budget
he cheated the aussie people by saying he wouldnt contest again
cheated the debate

it never ends


----------



## noco (11 August 2013)

db94 said:


> dont you worry libs will get him for this.
> 
> he cheated the budget
> he cheated the aussie people by saying he wouldnt contest again
> ...




It will all end for Rudd on the 7th September with tears of defeat. 

I would say he has his defeat speech already written.


----------



## Calliope (11 August 2013)

db94 said:


> dont you worry libs will get him for this.
> 
> he cheated the budget
> he cheated the aussie people by saying he wouldnt contest again
> ...




Kevin Rudd for PM???  After tonight's "debate" Rudd is finished. So this thread is now redundant.:goodnight


----------



## db94 (11 August 2013)

rewatching the debate you can see how rudd talks faster and freaks more as the worm goes down lol

Abbott did much better and spoke from the heart. unlike rudd who spoke like a 3rd grade child doing a speech just looking at his notes and not engaging with the audience. 

Rudd has no chance now. He called out Abbott and he lost. he can only blame himself and his ego

there is no way how i can see he won unlike some articles are saying, he barely got above 50% like


----------



## dutchie (12 August 2013)

I think Rudd will have a nervous breakdown before the election.

By his nervous manner and his need to cheat, the pressure on him is mounting.

He is having trouble continuing the spin on what a great job Labor has done in the past and then trying to sell the New Way at the same time.

Juggling all his lies and bullsh@t is getting harder and harder and the pressure is starting to show.

Don’t be surprised if he spends a bit of time in hospital before the election.


----------



## dutchie (14 August 2013)

Rudd only has 23 more days to award himself the V.C., after surviving the Kokoda Track and having put himself outside "the wire" in Afghanistan.



http://www.news.com.au/national-new...le/story-fnho52ip-1226696642332#ixzz2btkKmUNn


----------



## Calliope (14 August 2013)

dutchie said:


> Rudd only has 23 more days to award himself the V.C., after surviving the Kokoda Track and having put himself outside "the wire" in Afghanistan.




He must have got the idea from Hillary Clinton.


----------



## dutchie (17 August 2013)

In the middle of an election campaign Kevin Rudd amazingly has the ability to try for a Guinness World Record.

Apparently he is going for the world record for the number of times he can say "cut" in three weeks.

The current record is 10,252 but sources close the PM say he will smash this easily.


----------



## noco (17 August 2013)

dutchie said:


> In the middle of an election campaign Kevin Rudd amazingly has the ability to try for a Guinness World Record.
> 
> Apparently he is going for the world record for the number of times he can say "cut" in three weeks.
> 
> The current record is 10,252 but sources close the PM say he will smash this easily.




I reckon he should be saying, "I AM GONE,GONE,GONE".


----------



## drsmith (17 August 2013)

Old tricks,



> Things started badly, with Education Minister Bill Shorten giving a glimpse into just how exhaustive the planning of Rudd's Northern Territory tax break had been. That is, he had never heard of it until the PM announced it in Darwin.
> 
> Rudd said his Treasurer, Chris Bowen, and Finance Minister, Penny Wong, were consulted but the belief among the busload of media is that this is likely to have been during a rushed phone hook-up somewhere between Jupiters Casino, Townsville, where the Rudd camp bunkered down earlier this week, and Darwin.




http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...b--not-so-his-man-in-swan-20130816-2s28o.html


----------



## noco (17 August 2013)

The cracks are starting to appear in Rudd's campaign as he starts to dictate in panic. He is becoming a one band show and nothing has really changed with this idiot of a Prime Minister.

Uncosted policies on the run are beginning to appear with monotonous regularity.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...-campaign-cracks/story-fn9qr68y-1226698789253


----------



## noco (18 August 2013)

It has been reported, Rudd has a lot of disunity and unhappiness in his campaign staff and is it any wonder.

This short video shows Rudd is deluding himself. He is only dreamin'.



http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/rudd_performs_passion/


----------



## MrBurns (18 August 2013)

noco said:


> It has been reported, Rudd has a lot of disunity and unhappiness in his campaign staff and is it any wonder.
> 
> This short video shows Rudd is deluding himself. He is only dreamin'.
> 
> ...




He's a complete ****head

It wouldn't surprise me if his popularity was about the same as Gillards by the time we get to vote

It's hard to believe that anyone could take him seriously.


----------



## drsmith (18 August 2013)

Still 21 days! 

2 minutes looked like it was more than enough agony for the group of loyal supporters standing behind Uncle Kev.

 

There must be many now within the Labor Party that are simply shaking their heads in disbelief.


----------



## dutchie (19 August 2013)

I think Australia has decided it does not really want this bloke to govern us...


----------



## pavilion103 (19 August 2013)

drsmith said:


> Still 21 days!
> 
> 2 minutes looked like it was more than enough agony for the group of loyal supporters standing behind Uncle Kev.
> 
> ...




Lol cringeworthy


----------



## noco (20 August 2013)

Since Rudd called the election he appears to be running around in circles like the perverbial dog trying to catch his own tail But he says he will keep fighting if he does not run out of steam in the meantime.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/op...-road-to-nowhere/story-fni0ffsx-1226700133518


----------



## noco (21 August 2013)

Janet Albrechtsen sums up Kevin Rudd very well.

She believes people have had enough of this idiots antics and it will show up on the 7th September.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...to-the-real-rudd/story-e6frg7bo-1226700864858


----------



## sptrawler (21 August 2013)

noco said:


> Janet Albrechtsen sums up Kevin Rudd very well.
> 
> She believes people have had enough of this idiots antics and it will show up on the 7th September.
> 
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...to-the-real-rudd/story-e6frg7bo-1226700864858




Tonights debate, may the make or break for Rudd. If Abbott can frustrate Rudd enough, he may explode.


----------



## Country Lad (21 August 2013)

sptrawler said:


> Tonights debate, may the make or break for Rudd. If Abbott can frustrate Rudd enough, he may explode.




Surely by now Abbott would have realised Rudd has specific personality issues and has consulted a psychologist on how best to handle/niggle/upset Rudd in the debate.

Cheers
Country Lad


----------



## db94 (21 August 2013)

sptrawler said:


> Tonights debate, may the make or break for Rudd. If Abbott can frustrate Rudd enough, he may explode.




This is exactly what Abbott will do. Rudd is under extreme pressure and its showing. Could be a good debate.

However if Rudd wins, we will never hear the end of it. I hope Abbott smashes him and Rudd crawls back into the hole whence he came from


----------



## Julia (21 August 2013)

What time is the debate on?  ABC?


----------



## Country Lad (21 August 2013)

Julia said:


> What time is the debate on?  ABC?




6:30, can't have this nonsense interfering with the evening programs.   ABC 24, 7Two, SBS2.  Can't find it on any of the 9 channels but will probably be on Gem.

Cheers
Country Lad


----------



## Trembling Hand (22 August 2013)

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-po...gives-kevin-rudd-some-lip-20130822-2scok.html


----------



## drsmith (22 August 2013)

The faces behind aren't quiet as animated as their leader.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...n-2013-live-blog/story-fn9qr68y-1226691211608


----------



## MrBurns (22 August 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> http://www.theage.com.au/federal-po...gives-kevin-rudd-some-lip-20130822-2scok.html
> 
> View attachment 53965




It's been taken down now, obviously pressure brought to bare by the Kruddsters minders.


----------



## Ijustnewit (22 August 2013)

drsmith said:


> The faces behind aren't quiet as animated as their leader.
> 
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...n-2013-live-blog/story-fn9qr68y-1226691211608




Great picture , Uncle Psychopath is back. :1zhelp:

The ABC is also having a picnic today with the " shut up comment ".


----------



## drsmith (22 August 2013)

MrBurns said:


> It's been taken down now, obviously pressure brought to bare by the Kruddsters minders.



Kevin Rudd in his response to the encounter attempts to justify it.



> Mr Rudd said he wasn't happy about having make-up applied at the best of times, and had been "in the zone" when he encountered Ms Fontana ahead of his clash with Mr Abbott.
> 
> "I think a misunderstanding has occurred," he said.




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...hows-his-make-up/story-fn9qr68y-1226701941993


----------



## Calliope (22 August 2013)

drsmith said:


> Kevin Rudd in his response to the encounter attempts to justify it.
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...hows-his-make-up/story-fn9qr68y-1226701941993




I didn't realise that the head that Rudd was wearing in the debate had a cosmetically enhanced face.


----------



## drsmith (22 August 2013)

Could Kev suffer the same fate in 2013 as John Howard did in 2007 ?



> Glasson, who is running an intensive local grassroots campaign, leads Rudd on a two-party preferred basis by 52% to 48%. The poll's margin of error is 4%, but its findings raise the possibility that without a big effort on his home turf, Rudd could become the third prime minister in Australian history to lose his seat, behind John Howard in 2007 and Stanley Bruce in 1929.




http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/22/kevin-rudd-trails-seat-griffith-poll?CMP=twt_gu


----------



## noco (22 August 2013)

drsmith said:


> Could Kev suffer the same fate in 2013 as John Howard did in 2007 ?
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/22/kevin-rudd-trails-seat-griffith-poll?CMP=twt_gu




How does that song go?

'WOULDN'T BE LOVELY".


----------



## dutchie (23 August 2013)

Poor ol Kevvie was whinging this morning on the ABC about how he was not getting a fair shake of the sauce bottle from the Murdoch press.


----------



## noco (23 August 2013)

I believe voters have made up thier minds on which way they will vote on the 7th. Voters have have had enough of the BS and spin from Labor and Labor does not seem to be learning from their mistakes.

It is looking more likely RUDNEY RUDE might even lose his seat. Ah la John Howard.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...others-its-worse/story-fn9qr68y-1226702474375


----------



## Calliope (23 August 2013)

dutchie said:


> Poor ol Kevvie was whinging this morning on the ABC about how he was not getting a fair shake of the sauce bottle from the Murdoch press.




The last refuge of a scoundrel Labor hypocrite...complain on the ABC about bias from the Murdoch press.

“Why is it, that day after day after day, whether it's the Daily Telegraph or the other papers Mr Murdoch owns right across Australia ... they are constantly taking a club to our government and not putting Mr Abbott under one minute's scrutiny?” Mr Rudd said on ABC TV.

The reason Mr Rudd, is that News Ltd. doesn't have to ignore your nastiness...unlike the ABC.


----------



## drsmith (23 August 2013)

I can't find the article now, but Kevin Rudd's dummy spit with Lily Fontana was apparently over a request from Kev of a more aggressive chin which Lily baulked at.


----------



## MrBurns (23 August 2013)

drsmith said:


> I can't find the article now, but Kevin Rudd's little spat with Lily Fontana was apparently over a request from Kev of a more aggressive chin which Lily baulked at.




Why not just add 2 balls, that would give him errrr 2


----------



## drsmith (23 August 2013)

MrBurns said:


> Why not just add 2 balls, that would give him errrr 2



I have to clarify. It wasn't an article. It was something that was posted here.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/f...=27203&page=15&p=790496&viewfull=1#post790496


----------



## dutchie (24 August 2013)

dutchie said:


> In the middle of an election campaign Kevin Rudd amazingly has the ability to try for a Guinness World Record.
> 
> Apparently he is going for the world record for the number of times he can say "cut" in three weeks.
> 
> The current record is 10,252 but sources close the PM say he will smash this easily.




Kevvie is up to 6,789,456 and still going strong.






PS   Does this bloke ever shut up???


----------



## DB008 (24 August 2013)

Don't know if this has been posted.

*Kevin Rudd wrong on Tony Abbott's '$1b hospital funding cut'*



> Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has accused Opposition Leader Tony Abbott of cutting $1 billion in public hospital funding when he was health minister.
> 
> Mr Rudd made the claim during Wednesday's leaders' debate in Brisbane, after Mr Abbott answered a question from the audience about possible cuts to public services and jobs.
> 
> ...




http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-23/rudd-wrong-on-abbotts-1b-hospital-funding-cut/4906242


----------



## Julia (24 August 2013)

DB008 said:


> Don't know if this has been posted.[/
> 
> *Kevin Rudd wrong on Tony Abbott's '$1b hospital funding cut'*



It should be to the absolute shame of the press gallery that Rudd has been allowed to get away with this lie for so many years.
It's similar to the "Coalition's 70 billion black hole" that they are peddling this time around.


----------



## noco (25 August 2013)

I would say the Labor natives are becomung restless with Rudd's performance and have all but given up ever winning the election.

I just watched his performance on Insiders with more lies and BS as per usual.

It is still my opinion that the Gillard gang will spoil his party in the last week of the campaign. They will be after revenge and will leak like a sieve.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...rudd-can-deliver/story-fn9qr68y-1226703142221


----------



## drsmith (25 August 2013)

noco said:


> I just watched his performance on Insiders with more lies and BS as per usual.



I watched it too today and noted in particular the opening segment where they weren't even game to show the crowd response to TA's "Does this guy ever shut-up" comment. That set the tone for the whole show. 

They know the fate of this Labor Government. Barrie is now reduced to using the show to pay his last respects to this dying Labor administration and to its politically mortally wounded messiah.

Expect the last round of something similar next Sunday.


----------



## moXJO (25 August 2013)

noco said:


> I would say the Labor natives are becomung restless with Rudd's performance and have all but given up ever winning the election.
> 
> I just watched his performance on Insiders with more lies and BS as per usual.




Rudd looks sick and stressed, he is a far cry from kevin 07


----------



## Calliope (25 August 2013)

moXJO said:


> Rudd looks sick and stressed, he is a far cry from kevin 07




He is very unfit physically. He was audibly gasping for breath during the interview,


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (25 August 2013)

I still reckon anyone who rules Kevin Rudd out, is brave.

He will fight until the very end.

Do not underestimate his capacity to schmooze the electorate.

gg


----------



## MrBurns (25 August 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I still reckon anyone who rules Kevin Rudd out, is brave.
> 
> He will fight until the very end.
> 
> ...





Sorry gg but he's all schmoozed out, it worked on school kids for a while but even they have gone back to their IPhones for entertainment.


----------



## noco (25 August 2013)

Calliope said:


> He is very unfit physically. He was audibly gasping for breath during the interview,




Yes I noticed that also.............I thought he sounded like he had the sniffles from a cold or the flu.


----------



## DB008 (25 August 2013)

The guy is a nut.

Calls off election campaign yesterday (Syria gassing issue), then fly's from Canberra to Brisbane to do a ABC kitchen segment and his 'advisors/assistants' lie about it too. 

What a joke.



> *Prime Minister Kevin Rudd halts campaign for Syria, then does TV show Kitchen Cabinet*
> 
> http://www.news.com.au/national-news/federal-election/prime-minister-kevin-rudd-halts-campaign-for-syria-then-does-tv-show-kitchen-cabinet/story-fnho52ip-1226703440022#ixzz2czBAwEHp


----------



## wayneL (26 August 2013)

We went to the Bulimba festival yesterday, it was a lovely day, pigged out on Bratwurst and ice cream and Joe Camilleri and his band put on a great show.... great to see bald old farts still rockin' 

Anywayz, Bulimba is in K.Rude's electorate and he had a stand there... I just may have had a vent... they weren't smiling, but boy did I feel good afterwards, capped off a great day nicely.  

It's a pity the clown himself didn't turn up... too busy saving Syria I 'spose.


----------



## MrBurns (27 August 2013)

Rudd's latest embarrassing move - 



> Rudd, Obama in talks on Syria as campaign turns to national security




http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-27/kevin-rudd-speaks-on-the-phone-to-barack-obama/4915196

Anything to avoid people asking him questions........Action Hero Rudd


----------



## drsmith (27 August 2013)

Note Kevin Rudd's facial expression just after one minute into the video segment as Anthony Albanese speaks about high speed rail.

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2013/s3834277.htm

Pleasant thoughts in Kevin Rudd's mind I think not.


----------



## sails (27 August 2013)

MrBurns said:


> Rudd's latest embarrassing move -
> 
> 
> 
> ...





haha - you don't often see a photo of Kevin with his mouth shut!

But how do we know it was Obama on the phone?  Could have been his wife for all we know or even no-one on the other end.  The exaggerations  he spits out makes anything he says questionable, imo.


----------



## MrBurns (27 August 2013)

sails said:


> haha - you don't often see a photo of Kevin with his mouth shut!
> 
> But how do we know it was Obama on the phone?  Could have been his wife for all we know or even no-one on the other end.  The exaggerations  he spits out makes anything he says questionable, imo.




Rudd was giving his lunch order to Albanese


----------



## Craton (27 August 2013)

FWIW:
After Gough got the boot way back when and as a pimply faced teenager I became a Labor supporter just falling short of becoming a party member. Over the years and one would think becoming a little more world wise, I stopped being a Labor supporter, if fact I don't support any political party now. Yes, you can call me a swinging voter.

In '07 I was starting to think that Labor might have got their act together. Memories of Gough and the Hawk/Keating stouch fading into the distance. Then Labor go and stuff up again! Back stabbing Kevy then trying to salvage this election at any cost by more back stabbing is simply a slap in the face of the sensibility of this pleb voter. Then they go and bring Beattie back too. Acts of desperation to say the least. Not impressed let me tell you. :frown:

You guessed it, not even a preference vote will go to the Labor feather nesting factory, no bloody fear, not from this disgruntled citizen.

Ah, that feels better...


----------



## drsmith (27 August 2013)

*Newspoll state by state breakdown*

The punters have seen the light (or is that the dark in the case of Kevin Rudd ?) in NSW and SA. No improvement in Labor's 2PP support in those two states since Kevin Rudd returned to the Labor leadership.

Kevin Rudd of course is home boy in Queensland, so they're slower to switch on there and there's also Campbell Newman's cuts (a theme on which Federal Labor is constantly pushing the barrow) but one has to wonder about Victoria and its 17% primary support for the Greens. What's going into the latte's there ? 

The slight fall in 2PP support for the Coalition in the west may be in part due to the state Liberal government's recent antics. The Coalition though still enjoys it's highest 2PP support of the mainland states in the west in what can only be described as a clear marriage of dollars and sense. 

http://resources.news.com.au/files/2013/08/21/1226701/636599-aus-news-file-federal-130822.pdf


----------



## drsmith (27 August 2013)

I'll stick this in the right place this time. 

On Kevin Rudd's latest gigantic thought bubble, I'm not sure this will do much for his public perception.





MrBurns said:


> More BS to try to get votes in Qld, the man's a menace.




https://www.aussiestockforums.com/f...16184&page=208&p=791223&viewfull=1#post791223

Indeed.

He's now reduced to defending the bunker.


----------



## dutchie (28 August 2013)

Krudd says Abbott could not handle Syria crisis.

http://www.news.com.au/national-new...ith-syria-crisis/story-fnho52ip-1226705259175

What a self-conceited wanker this person is.


Idiot.

How anyone could even half contemplate voting for him is beyond me.


----------



## MrBurns (28 August 2013)

dutchie said:


> Krudd says Abbott could not handle Syria crisis.
> http://www.news.com.au/national-new...ith-syria-crisis/story-fnho52ip-1226705259175
> What a self-conceited wanker this person is.
> Idiot.
> How anyone could even half contemplate voting for him is beyond me.




I saw that and before he could open his wimpy whining prissy mouth I switched off, I've had enough.


----------



## sails (28 August 2013)

dutchie said:


> Krudd says Abbott could not handle Syria crisis.
> 
> http://www.news.com.au/national-new...ith-syria-crisis/story-fnho52ip-1226705259175
> 
> ...




Here is more on Rudd:



> "Chaos" and "late" are the two words most frequently used to describe Rudd's campaign.
> 
> On Monday afternoon for instance, camera crews were told to assemble at Circular Quay for a Prime Ministerial picture opportunity.
> 
> ...




Read more from Miranda Devine:  http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...stency-and-class/story-fni0cwl5-1226705255082


----------



## Calliope (28 August 2013)

Rudd's character was no secret six years ago. If I were a parent I wouldn't want him hanging around school playgrounds. Abbott is a much preferable role model.

Alan Ramsey, SMH April 28, 2007:



> "KEVIN Rudd is what I call a PPP - a prissy, precious prick. One with a glass jaw, a quick temper and, when he loses it, a foul tongue. And don't imagine I'm the only one who thinks so. One day the electorate will learn about Rudd's very human, if dark, side (he's not) Jesus Christ or John the Baptist ..."




It's very strange that in the ReachTel poll today more women still prefer Rudd to Abbott. They are probably the same ones who resent Abbott's PPL scheme.


----------



## noco (28 August 2013)

Poor old RUDNEY RUDE, he just can't stand the real truth about himself when the media reports him as they see him. So he blames the media for his poor polling.

Will the real Kevin Rudd please stand up.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/whos-to-blame-listen-carefully/story-fnj45fvb-1226706027276


----------



## dutchie (29 August 2013)

Hope Krudd goes to the G20 meeting.

Its a win/win situation.

Krudd is out of the country (all of Australia benefits) and Krudd is backslapping with his "mates" (Krudd's ego benefits).


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (29 August 2013)

I still reckon Rudd will win, and then what ?

Pestilence and 1910 ockerisms to lead us further in to debt, no borders and destruction.

gg


----------



## dutchie (29 August 2013)

It's just all NEGATIVITY coming from the Krudd camp.


----------



## Calliope (31 August 2013)

Crazy thought bubbles can't keep you afloat.


----------



## noco (31 August 2013)

What an egotistical, self serving megalomaniac this Rudd is!

He fell fowl with China 07/08, he not welcome in Indonesia or PNG and he has the audacity to criticize Abbott. I am afraid he would  not perceive to be a good example in diplomacy, in fact he he is an absolute joke around the world.

Read more in the link below. 


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...-was-rudd-anyway/story-e6frg75f-1226707874281


----------



## dutchie (31 August 2013)

dutchie said:


> In the middle of an election campaign Kevin Rudd amazingly has the ability to try for a Guinness World Record.
> 
> Apparently he is going for the world record for the number of times he can say "cut" in three weeks.
> 
> The current record is 10,252 but sources close the PM say he will smash this easily.






dutchie said:


> Kevvie is up to 6,789,456 and still going strong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...







123,007,599

Still going, going, .....


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (31 August 2013)

There is a very, very nasty anti-Kevin element on ASF at the moment.

I still feel he has the most defective personality of any politician since Federation.

So lay off him.

gg


----------



## dutchie (31 August 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> There is a very, very nasty anti-Kevin element on ASF at the moment.
> 
> 
> 
> gg




 That's just because Juliar is not around anymore.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (31 August 2013)

The Gillard camp, since Kevin Rudd has once again became PM has pursued a relentless campaign against him.

They have leaked incessantly, on his policies.

They have undermined Kevin13's march towards a third term.

Shame on them.

gg


----------



## drsmith (31 August 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> They have leaked incessantly, on his policies.



The difficulty with that is that not even Kev knows his policies until they come out of his mouth.

It could though explain why Julia Gillard is not going to Labor's campaign launch tomorrow. If she's within a certain range, perhaps she can read the subconscious part of his mind.


----------



## noco (31 August 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> The Gillard camp, since Kevin Rudd has once again became PM has pursued a relentless campaign against him.
> 
> They have leaked incessantly, on his policies.
> 
> ...





GG, if he was to "SHUT UP" and stay off the scene for a week he might just get a lift in the polls.

It is his mouth that just keeps getting him into trouble. He should try getting his brain into gear first.


----------



## noco (31 August 2013)

Rudd is certainly a strange man and will go down in history as a man who has not only destroyed himself but his party as well.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...of-citizen-kevin/story-fn9qr68y-1226707874138


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (31 August 2013)

noco said:


> Rudd is certainly a strange man and will go down in history as a man who has not only destroyed himself but his party as well.
> 
> 
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...of-citizen-kevin/story-fn9qr68y-1226707874138




Tell that to Mr. and Mrs. Shoppingtrolley.

This man, Mr.Rudd, has a vision for himself, that will drag Australia.

Unkind words are easy, true focus on oneself, and one's own interests, such as Mr. Rudd has exhibited are much more difficult.

A vote for Mr. Rudd is a vote for Mr. Rudd. The ALP have been Rudd to Rude, and Rude to Rudd.

Mrs Wong says he is changed, so she says.

The ALP say he has changed.

Australia needs to catch up. 

He is the Messiah.

gg


----------



## sails (31 August 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> ...He is the Messiah.
> 
> gg




 Messiah's don't lie about something treasury didn't say...lol

Messiah's are positive, not negative

Messiah's don't continue to tell untruths on national TV after they have been informed it is an untruth.

I could go on...

It appears that Rudd's unpopularity has been brought on all by himself.


----------



## Calliope (31 August 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Tell that to Mr. and Mrs. Shoppingtrolley.
> 
> This man, Mr.Rudd, has a vision for himself, that will drag Australia.
> 
> ...




Good one GG. You are obviously "running interference". Did you by any chance play grid-iron in your youth?


----------



## medicowallet (31 August 2013)

The stars aligning correctly, and heaven forbid a massive foot in mouth moment by TA,

hopefully the time next week the mods will be able to add

"mer" to the title of this thread.

MW


----------



## drsmith (1 September 2013)

How much has Kev changed ?



> While Mr Rudd is publicly forcing a positive spin on poor polling results and the fallout of a dysfunctional campaign, behind the scenes he is furious at how events have soured for him.
> 
> His travelling party has witnessed familiar outbursts of anger and an increasingly cranky demeanour as events have come unstuck.
> 
> Morale at campaign headquarters in Melbourne is at a low ebb. Staff members who have dared to voice opinions and challenge strategies have been removed, leaving a sense of distrust and insecurity among those remaining.




http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...thud-as-leader-gets-lippy-20130831-2sxpc.html


----------



## moXJO (1 September 2013)

drsmith said:


> How much has Kev changed ?
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...thud-as-leader-gets-lippy-20130831-2sxpc.html




I have no idea what people see in Kev. Anyone that can do what he did to Gillard and the labor party need to be thrown out, not made PM. Talk about a labor fog covering their supporters eyes.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (1 September 2013)

Kevin Rudd has changed.

He is now a kind, considerate, caring and inclusive individual, none of which he was before today at midday.

I reckon we should give him another crack at really stuffing up our country.

All the lies about Kevin are starting to annoy me.

gg


----------



## sails (1 September 2013)

Kind, considerate, caring person?



> The Fairfax Media analysis comes as reports emerge of Prime Minister Kevin Rudd’s behind-the-scenes fury at how events have soured for him. According to several sources, his travelling party has witnessed familiar outbursts of anger and a growing cranky demeanour from the PM, while campaign headquarters in Melbourne is at a low ebb. Staff members who have dared to voice opinions and challenge strategies have been removed, leaving a sense of distrust and insecurity among those remaining.
> 
> Frustration is also growing at how Mr Rudd and his pseudo campaign manager, Bruce Hawker, have been freewheeling on strategies and policy. “The mood is so depressed. It’s like there is no reason left to keep fighting,” one insider said.




and on the campaign described below as a shambles:



> “The message of the day sent out from CHQ to seat directors never matches what Kevin stands up and says, campaigners end up wasting their day pulling together materials and stand-ups on an incorrect message. The Canberra press office is even worse off, not even CHQ filling them in, press secretaries there are left to wander the gallery with no information on what is happening that day, relying on watching Sky News to piece the day’s message together. It’s a complete shambles.”




Read more: http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/rudd_cracks/


----------



## johenmo (2 September 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Kevin Rudd has changed.
> 
> He is now a kind, considerate, caring and inclusive individual, none of which he was before today at midday.
> 
> ...




GG - I feel your pain, brother.  If he does lose, he will surely be a victim of PTSD and should therefore be generously compensated, especially after all he has done for our country.


----------



## noco (2 September 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Kevin Rudd has changed.
> 
> He is now a kind, considerate, caring and inclusive individual, none of which he was before today at midday.
> 
> ...




+1 GG. I wish they would stop pickin' on our Kevvie, coz he's  gonna be a compltete wreck by the time he gets to the G20 meeting in St. Pertersburg.


----------



## noco (2 September 2013)

Is Rudd going off his "ROCKER"?

He obviously does not realize how toxic he has become and he wonders why the media have turned against him.

He is in self destruct mood.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...ng-for-a-miracle/story-e6frg75f-1226708639885


----------



## Calliope (2 September 2013)

*Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him well*


----------



## drsmith (3 September 2013)

Once upon a time in the Brisbane seat of Griffith,



> Labor could see Glasson was making inroads in Griffith, so one morning, when he turned up at his favourite campaign corner, he found two elderly Labor stalwarts had already set up shop, with balloons and corflutes bearing the single word "Kevin" in high-octane yellow, above an image of the prime minister.
> 
> The two campaigns shared the space companionably enough that morning, but the next day Glasson got out of bed half an hour earlier and beat his rivals to the corner.
> 
> ...




In four days, the final chapter of this story will be written for both Griffith and nationally.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...-bit-of-a-muppet/story-fni0cwl5-1226710030078


----------



## Calliope (4 September 2013)

Labor's Mad Monday...9 September.


----------



## noco (4 September 2013)

Could this possibly be another AWU scandal about to unfold.

This all took place back in 1988 when Rudd was director general under Wyane Goss and it looks like Wayne Swan knew all about as well.

Makes you think why this is all unfolding in the last week of the election campaign. Perhaps Swan and Gillard are working behind the scenes again. 

REVENGE, REVENGE, REVENGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


http://kangaroocourtofaustralia.com...made-millions-from-their-contract-with-a-nun/


----------



## drsmith (4 September 2013)

> Labor is "sandbagging" in a chaotic campaign to retain the seats it already holds, while the Coalition's campaign rolls on with military precision - that's the latest analysis coming from two of the ABC's correspondents travelling with the respective camps.




The audio segment by Lincoln Archer at 1:40 PM today illustrates well the depths of despair in the Labor campaign.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-04/election-live3a-september-4/4933222


----------



## noco (4 September 2013)

Subject: Pickering - So long Kev








it has not been nice to know you



Julia Gillard may have been a crooked union moll but Kevin Rudd is a detestable, lying lair without substance. Australia and his own Party deserve much better and you can thank Bill Shorten and his AWU’s grubby handful of votes for an election result worse than Gillard would have managed.

Those in Treasury Finance Dept and the Parliamentary Budget Office who had not already nailed their colours to Kevin’s mast, have turned on him. They have exposed him for who he is.

It is inconceivable that he could expect to verbal senior Public Servants in the process of lying about “Abbott’s black hole” and not have them complain.

His conceit was sufficient to believe they would back his blatant lies but, at this late stage, senior Public Servants’ concern is job security and Kev should have checked the betting before assuming Treasury would still support him: Rudd $11, Abbott $1.03.

Kev may well go down as among the worst Prime Ministers Australia has produced but Treasury has decided it will not go down with him and now he stands naked and alone, a humourless shell of a man.

Whether you like Abbott or not, he has soared above the fray, consistently refusing to play in Kev’s cesspit. 

For Kev to suggest Abbott cannot be trusted to handle foreign diplomacy is an astonishing statement when his own record is so appalling.

Petulantly calling the Chinese “rat****ers” when he couldn’t get his own way on his “greatest challenge of our time” at the Copenhagen global-warming farce, somehow doesn’t ring of good diplomacy. 

When his “greatest challenge” became his “greatest liability”, he quickly swapped principle for possible votes. What a man!

My Chinese friends say his Cantonese is unintelligible gibberish. He has no friends here or overseas and half Labor’s front bench resigned rather than stomach him.

He needs to explain his involvement in the Heiner affair and favoured contracts awarded his wife's company.

His fiscal stupidity almost got us involved in the GFC yet he claims he saved us from something we were no more at risk of than were the Chinese.

Illegal boat arrivals?  I’ll say no more!

And towing Garden Island to Brisbane without telling anyone was a good one!  His home of Brisbane doesn't even have a port, just sandy flats.  Crumbs!

He lies about debt, jobs and the reason we now have low interest rates.  His personal vengeance undermined Gillard and almost lost Labor an election (she has not returned the favour). 

His latest foray into foreign policy is to order home all Aussie expats in Syria ahead of incoming US missiles.  Really Kev?  Have you the slightest idea who exactly the rebels are? 

No Kev, I’m sorry you’re feeling a bit aggressive right now, but we are not going to bomb Damascus and if you had a school kid’s grasp on foreign affairs you would know why. 

Thank God the man you claim doesn’t have the temperament for foreign policy has seen the risks involved.

All this after only four weeks' campaigning... how can anyone seriously contemplate three years of this dolt?

And Kev, we are not a member of the UN Permanent Security Council and never will be so, do yourself a favour, settle down and take a Mogadon.

Or do us all a favour and take five or six bottles.
LARRY PICKERING       8:45AM      31 AUGUST 2013


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (4 September 2013)

It is extremely easy for partisan folk down South to mock our Queensland " I con " Kevin Rudd.

The southern press have quite fairly lambasted him for previously spending like a drunken sailor and wasting a Howard surplus.

This is not fair.

Kevin is one of our folk, and I would still believe he will win and resume his role in completely stuffing up our great country.

And it is what makes us great folks, we are one, as someone once said.

I must zip.

gg


----------



## Craton (5 September 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> It is extremely easy for partisan folk down South to mock our Queensland " I con " Kevin Rudd.
> 
> The southern press have quite fairly lambasted him for previously spending like a drunken sailor and wasting a Howard surplus.
> 
> ...




   Thanks GG, needed a good laugh.


----------



## Calliope (5 September 2013)

Kevin Rudd as a baby. He has just been told he can't keep it.  I suppose we will see the tears flowing again when he concedes on Saturday night.:flush:


----------



## drsmith (5 September 2013)

Dear oh dear!

In his National Press Club presentation today, Kevin Rudd didn't like the second last question about his NT company tax cut.

Sky and its viewers also copped a dig from which he tried to quickly backpedal.


----------



## Calliope (5 September 2013)

I get the impression that Therese Rein is Rudd's campaign director. I think he is her puppet and she pulls the strings. This interview shows the real Rein behind the sweet smile.

http://www.2gb.com/audioplayer/13396#.Uif5QsYwe-J


----------



## MrBurns (5 September 2013)

Rudd looked absolutely stuffed on the 730 Report, Leigh Sales still couldn't get him to slip up though, on message and just wont shut up.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (6 September 2013)

MrBurns said:


> Rudd looked absolutely stuffed on the 730 Report, Leigh Sales still couldn't get him to slip up though, on message and just wont shut up.





Thanks Burnsie, 

And I have met with Kevin after the 730 appearance.

Over some saveloys and vegemite he agreed finally with my advice.

He will attend the G20 Conference in St.Petersburg, leaving at 6pm tonight.

I was asked to accompany him by his nanny, but I declined as I wish to vote in the morning, and dislike changing nappies.

He was lubber lipped as ever, threw a well oiled hand through his golden quiff, and said to me as we parted.

"gg, The Australian people may ask where I am headed, well gg tell the good folks of Australia, I had to zipnik."


gg


----------



## db94 (6 September 2013)

uh ohh. Not what you want one day out from the election. Not that it'll really matter

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ny-giving-quotes/story-fnihsrf2-1226712703173


----------



## MrBurns (6 September 2013)

db94 said:


> uh ohh. Not what you want one day out from the election. Not that it'll really matter
> 
> http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ny-giving-quotes/story-fnihsrf2-1226712703173




He's a lying little sleaze ball, I wish Abbott would give him a punch n the face from all of us.


----------



## drsmith (6 September 2013)

MrBurns said:


> He's a lying little sleaze ball, I wish Abbott would give him a punch n the face from all of us.



The Galaxy poll attached to a link in that article shows how much of a failure the resurrection of Kevin Rudd as PM has been in the eyes of the electorate.

The best that can be said for Labor is that he's perhaps saved some furniture in comparison to where Julia Gillard was heading. I imagine many within the Labor Party will now be hoping his own electorate will finish his political career off to make the whole exercise worth it.


----------



## MrBurns (6 September 2013)

drsmith said:


> The Galaxy poll attached to a link in that article shows how much of a failure the resurrection of Kevin Rudd as PM has been in the eyes of the electorate.
> 
> The best that can be said for Labor is that he's perhaps saved some furniture in comparison to where Julia Gillard was heading. I imagine many within the Labor Party will now be hoping his own electorate will finish his political career off to make the whole exercise worth it.




What is annoying me is that the ABC is going flat out to support him against all reason.

All the articles on the ABC web site are pro Labor today.



> Labor seizes on Coalition internet filter 'debacle'
> 
> Abbott reveals his plan for a more selfish Australia
> 
> ...




The Age supporting him means that Fairfax is worse than I thought.


----------



## dutchie (6 September 2013)

Labor's continual Abbott, Abbott, Abbott,cut,cut,cut campaign is pathetic.

The last six years have been pathetic and they have carried it on into the last hours of this election.

Hopefully the decimated Party will get rid of Rudd (if the electorate does not) and his hangers on Albanese, Bowen,Wong and Plibersek and start rebuilding with new non union/legal/political plebs and get some people with a more worldly view, especially the business world (have a look at how a business runs - profit and loss, debt!!).


----------



## drsmith (6 September 2013)

Ministers within the current government effectively concede the obvious.



> Health Minister Tanya Plibersek today admitted Labor faced “an uphill battle” with less than 24 hours until the polls open.
> 
> And Home Affairs Minister Jason Clare warned a strong opposition would be needed to hold a Coalition government to account.
> 
> ...






> Strategists on both sides predict Labor could lose about 20 seats to be left with just 50.




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...-remains-defiant/story-fn9qr68y-1226713007032


----------



## Julia (6 September 2013)

drsmith said:


> The best that can be said for Labor is that he's perhaps saved some furniture in comparison to where Julia Gillard was heading. I imagine many within the Labor Party will now be hoping his own electorate will finish his political career off to make the whole exercise worth it.



I agree.   If Rudd loses his seat, it saves them the blood letting which would be inevitable post election.

If he can save himself, I still have no sense of whether he would leave politics anyway (causing a by-election) or still allow his hubristic delusion that he can ultimately succeed.



MrBurns said:


> What is annoying me is that the ABC is going flat out to support him against all reason.



That actually hasn't been the case on much of what I've heard on Radio National.  On "The World Today", Samantha Hawley, who has been travelling with the PM, could hardly have been more critical about the shambles of a campaign that Rudd has run.  And some of Fran Kelly's questions have been anything but kind when interviewing various members of the government.

They have, however, been completely untruthful by reporting that the Coalition is  'cutting foreign aid' rather than reducing the *increase to foreign aid.*

They've certainly had a good go at the Coalition over the botched censorship mess, and reasonably so, imo.
After all the protestations about the fundamental need for freedom of choice/expression etc, if they were to introduce any sort of mandatory filter they'd never live it down.


It seems to depend a lot on the individual journalist.  Stephen Long, e.g. would find a way to blame the Coalition for the fairies not being at the bottom of the garden.


----------



## drsmith (6 September 2013)

Final words from the representatives of the major parties for the local campaign in Griffith.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2rTJc36mlU#t=221



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkZreWqbfT8


----------



## db94 (6 September 2013)

dutchie said:


> *Labor's continual Abbott, Abbott, Abbott,cut,cut,cut campaign is pathetic.*
> 
> The last six years have been pathetic and they have carried it on into the last hours of this election.
> 
> Hopefully the decimated Party will get rid of Rudd (if the electorate does not) and his hangers on Albanese, Bowen,Wong and Plibersek and start rebuilding with new non union/legal/political plebs and get some people with a more worldly view, especially the business world (have a look at how a business runs - profit and loss, debt!!).




This has really stood out to me in the last week of the election. its really annoying, especially coming from a party that claimed to be positive this election. 

The thing thats also really getting to me, is how all the die hard Labor supporters are crying foul about Murdoch being biased. Maybe they've forgotten about the last election and how the ABC have been portraying this election


----------



## db94 (6 September 2013)

drsmith said:


> Final words from the representatives of the major parties for the local campaign in Griffith.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkZreWqbfT8





I dont know if this is a joke or not... I think he has been spending too much time with Kindies

From the response to this video, he will lose his seat.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (6 September 2013)

db94 said:


> I dont know if this is a joke or not... I think he has been spending too much time with Kindies
> 
> From the response to this video, he will lose his seat.




Can I have some of what he is on?

gg


----------



## drsmith (6 September 2013)

The script for the stuff he's on runs out tomorrow and he won't find going cold turkey a second time around any easier.


----------



## Julia (6 September 2013)

db94 said:


> This has really stood out to me in the last week of the election. its really annoying, especially coming from a party that claimed to be positive this election.
> 
> The thing thats also really getting to me, is how all the die hard Labor supporters are crying foul about Murdoch being biased. Maybe they've forgotten about the last election and how the ABC have been portraying this election



Such a good point.  We didn't hear Rudd crying foul in 2007 when the Murdoch press so championed him.


----------



## sails (6 September 2013)

db94 said:


> This has really stood out to me in the last week of the election. its really annoying, especially coming from a party that claimed to be positive this election.
> 
> The thing thats also really getting to me, is how all the die hard Labor supporters are crying foul about Murdoch being biased. Maybe they've forgotten about the last election and how the ABC have been portraying this election




To his credit, I don't recall Abbott  complaining about the bias of the ABC in this election campaign...


----------



## sptrawler (7 September 2013)

Not wanting to be cynical, but now Rudd has been Prime Minister for the last six weeks. Does that mean he qualifies for the 40% increase in pension.


----------



## dutchie (7 September 2013)

Kevin's new 3 word slogan - bugger, bugger, bugger


----------



## Calliope (8 September 2013)

I watched and waited for an agonising 22 minutes for the fat lady to sing. But she continued to nod approvingly and wear a victory smile for the whole time. I think he was following her script.

[video]http://video.theaustralian.com.au/2404735369/Kevin-Rudd-stands-down-as-Labor-leader[/video]


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (8 September 2013)

If Kevin Rudd stays on as a backbencher, he will try and control any future leader of the ALP.

Far be it from to give advice to Labor, but they really need to convince him to leave, otherwise he will white ant another leader.

gg


----------



## Julia (8 September 2013)

+1.


----------



## dutchie (8 September 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> If Kevin Rudd stays on as a backbencher, he will try and control any future leader of the ALP.
> 
> Far be it from to give advice to Labor, but they really need to convince him to leave, otherwise he will white ant another leader.
> 
> gg






Julia said:


> +1.




They are very  sloooooow learners.


----------



## GoodCall (8 September 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> If Kevin Rudd stays on as a backbencher, he will try and control any future leader of the ALP.
> 
> Far be it from to give advice to Labor, but they really need to convince him to leave, otherwise he will white ant another leader.
> 
> gg




+2

Australia will lose the election if Kev doesn't go for good.


----------



## Purple XS2 (8 September 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> If Kevin Rudd stays on as a backbencher, he will try and control any future leader of the ALP.
> 
> Far be it from to give advice to Labor, but they really need to convince him to leave, otherwise he will white ant another leader.
> 
> gg





And such is the reality of Ruddness, that even if he sat angelicly silent, his every word, gesture and thought the epitome of loyalty and modesty ...

.. nobody would believe it for a second, least of all the parliamentary ALP, none of whom at time of writing (early afternoon, the Day After) have thrown their hat into the ring.


As for Rudd's concession speech: unwatchable gibberish, the entirety of which can be summarised as: "Look at me, look at me!"


----------



## wayneL (8 September 2013)

"Eat your heart out Bill Glasson"

Perhaps one of the most ungracious phrases I've heard in politics. What a repugnant individual.


----------



## Whiskers (8 September 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> If Kevin Rudd stays on as a backbencher, he will try and control any future leader of the ALP.
> 
> Far be it from to give advice to Labor, but they really need to convince him to leave, otherwise he will white ant another leader.
> 
> gg




One point to Rudds credit (on face value at least) was his party rule changes to electing a leader, taking control away from faction and union bosses and giving party members more say. In the future this is likely to bode well for Labor democracy.

Having said that... and noteing that Rudd said he would not be seeking re lection as leader... that's pretty much what he said before toppling Gillard. One gets a bit of a sense his ego expects the party to, how was that again... come and beg him to come back as leader.


----------



## Calliope (8 September 2013)

wayneL said:


> "Eat your heart out Bill Glasson"
> 
> Perhaps one of the most ungracious phrases I've heard in politics. What a repugnant individual.




Yes and Therese Rein laughed out loud when he said that. I actually think the Rudd monster is her creation. But like Frankenstein's monster he was bound to self-destruct.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (9 September 2013)

My contacts in the ALP tell me that Kevni will stay in Parliament.

What a joke.

ALP will split.

gg


----------



## drsmith (9 September 2013)

Some fresh biff directed at Kevin Rudd.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-...n-rudd-for-labor-downfall2c-says-he-m/4946380

And a couple of interesting post election pieces,



> Rudd was held together by one key strut: an absolute conviction of intellectual superiority over everyone else. 'Kick out that strut and he will collapse.




http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...ped-bring-down-kevin-rudd-20130909-2tfum.html

http://www.afr.com/p/national/how_kevin_rudd_campaign_unravelled_MUATc7semL7gLrK69U2OvN

One only had to see him squeeze that kid's fingers to know he wasn't right.


----------



## Julia (9 September 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> My contacts in the ALP tell me that Kevni will stay in Parliament.



Yes, this was confirmed on 7.30 this evening.  Craig Emerson, who no longer has anything to lose in saying exactly what he thinks about Rudd, really let fly about him, views which were also expressed by Greg Combet and Stephen Smith.
As long as Rudd even sits on the back bench, the media will focus on him, and we will have a complete rerun of his antics over the last few years.


----------



## sptrawler (9 September 2013)

Julia said:


> Yes, this was confirmed on 7.30 this evening.  Craig Emerson, who no longer has anything to lose in saying exactly what he thinks about Rudd, really let fly about him, views which were also expressed by Greg Combet and Stephen Smith.
> As long as Rudd even sits on the back bench, the media will focus on him, and we will have a complete rerun of his antics over the last few years.




Well we have being saying uncle psycho, is a nutter, for ages.
Funny how the media and rusted on Laborites focused on Abbott, instead of the enemy within.


----------



## dutchie (10 September 2013)

I hope Krudd stays on.

He is the best thing going for the Coalition and gives us all on ASF Chat plenty to talk about.


----------



## Calliope (10 September 2013)

Julia said:


> Yes, this was confirmed on 7.30 this evening.  Craig Emerson, who no longer has anything to lose in saying exactly what he thinks about Rudd, really let fly about him, views which were also expressed by Greg Combet and Stephen Smith.
> As long as Rudd even sits on the back bench, the media will focus on him, and we will have a complete rerun of his antics over the last few years.




Yes it looks like all the indications are that we will have  a three years media focus on two very divisive and egotistical buffoons...Rudd and Palmer.

Some of the new senators will get a good run too, like the sporting party guy whose idea of sport is to throw kangaroo poo at his mates.


----------



## Trembling Hand (10 September 2013)

Calliope said:


> Some of the new senators will get a good run too, like the sporting party guy whose idea of sport is to throw kangaroo poo at his mates.




No that is the wrong person. But don't let some facts get in the way.


----------



## Calliope (10 September 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> No that is the wrong person. But don't let some facts get in the way.




Okay. You are just nitpicking. He is Australian Motoring Enthusiast Party. He will always be known as "Roo Poo Ricky". The following article give us a foretaste of what is to come. Enjoy.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...-kangaroo-poo-fight-video-20130909-2tf8j.html


----------



## GoodCall (10 September 2013)

dutchie said:


> I hope Krudd stays on.
> 
> He is the best thing going for the Coalition and gives us all on ASF Chat plenty to talk about.




That is what I originally thought, but I think that it would be best for Australia if voters get to vote for the best party instead of voting against the worse.


----------



## Surly (10 September 2013)

GoodCall said:


> That is what I originally thought, but I think that it would be best for Australia if voters get to vote for the best party instead of voting against the worse.




Good call Goodcall!

Going beyond this, if the party I do not want does happen to be elected, I want them to be as capable and functional a *team* as can be, even if my views do not line up entirely with theirs. This is certainly something we have not had since KRudd came into office in 2007. 

Cheers,
Surly


----------



## noco (21 September 2013)

Calliope said:


> Yes it looks like all the indications are that we will have  a three years media focus on two very divisive and egotistical buffoons...Rudd and Palmer.
> 
> Some of the new senators will get a good run too, like the sporting party guy whose idea of sport is to throw kangaroo poo at his mates.




palmer might just scrap in but our very Kevvie might be looking for a new job come Monday. Glasson has caught up.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...-rudd-shattered/story-fn9qr68y-1226713588959#


----------



## sails (21 September 2013)

noco said:


> palmer might just scrap in but our very Kevvie might be looking for a new job come Monday. Glasson has caught up.
> 
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...-rudd-shattered/story-fn9qr68y-1226713588959#





Noco, i wish it were so but that article was dated 7th September and counting since then has put Rudd in front.


----------



## noco (21 September 2013)

sails said:


> Noco, i wish it were so but that article was dated 7th September and counting since then has put Rudd in front.




Yes you are right Sails, I thought it was the latest news and did not check the date.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (21 September 2013)

There is a very interesting article in the AFR today from Mark Latham, a former leader of the ALP, and one not known to be prone to hyperbole.

He states that he has it on good authority that Rudd has begun planning a third attempt at leading the ALP, that will destroy Shorten or any other leader, who wins from the present sideshow alley method of choosing a leader.

Poor ALP, a once great party, destined to be rudded out of existence.

gg


----------



## Whiskers (21 September 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> There is a very interesting article in the AFR today from Mark Latham, a former leader of the ALP, and one not known to be prone to hyperbole.
> 
> He states that he has it on good authority that Rudd has begun planning a third attempt at leading the ALP, that will destroy Shorten or any other leader, who wins from the present sideshow alley method of choosing a leader.
> 
> gg




I told you so! :bananasmi

Am I not a great prophet, futurist, prognosticator or what? 



> Poor ALP, a once great party, destined to be rudded out of existence.




... or maybe, if lessons have not been learnt, a Jeremiah!


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (21 September 2013)

Whiskers said:


> I told you so! :bananasmi
> 
> Am I not a great prophet, futurist, prognosticator or what?




You Whiskers, are a great prophet, futurist and prognosticator.

Well called mate.

Rudd mischievous already. How unusual.

gg


----------



## nulla nulla (21 September 2013)

How many times did John Howard do combat with Andrew Peacock before he finally won leadership and locked it in?


----------



## sails (21 September 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> There is a very interesting article in the AFR today from Mark Latham, a former leader of the ALP, and one not known to be prone to hyperbole.
> 
> He states that he has it on good authority that Rudd has begun planning a third attempt at leading the ALP, that will destroy Shorten or any other leader, who wins from the present sideshow alley method of choosing a leader.
> 
> ...




If so, I wonder why he resigned from the leadership position?  He had his prize, why would he would want to fight for it all over again...


----------



## bellenuit (21 September 2013)

sails said:


> If so, I wonder why he resigned from the leadership position?  He had his prize, why would he would want to fight for it all over again...




The new rules require that the leadership go to a ballot following the defeat and he knew he wouldn't win it. If what Latham says is true, perhaps he is waiting for the new leadership to self destruct and he will again make his return to save the party. It seems far fetched, but then again, anything is possible when it comes to Labor.


----------



## sails (21 September 2013)

bellenuit said:


> The new rules require that the leadership go to a ballot following the defeat and he knew he wouldn't win it. If what Latham says is true, perhaps he is waiting for the new leadership to self destruct and he will again make his return to save the party. It seems far fetched, but then again, anything is possible when it comes to Labor.




Thanks Bellenuit, that makes sense.  Yes it does seem far fetched but anything is possible with labor and Rudd!


----------



## Whiskers (21 September 2013)

sails said:


> If so, I wonder why he resigned from the leadership position?  He had his prize, why would he would want to fight for it all over again...




If my prophet, futurist and prognosticator instincts are correct, it all about strategy... (future) validation in particular.

I suspect he might have been able to win the leadership again, but the better strategy for him to take is as follows.

He needed to resign and take a back seat to let the party in the first instance, and also the public, appreciate the wisdom of, and endorse the philosophy of, his leadership selection rule changes without his name in contention. 

The pragmatic reality is that atm while probably Albanese is the most likely to revive the Labor brand a bit in the short term, there is nobody else in the party atm, not associated with bad stigma of union or faction power, or has as much charisma as he does.

He also needs a bit of time to stay out of the limelight while the LNP gets a bit of a soiled perception and allow his previous public perception to fade off by comparison or reclothe in a older and wiser, lessons learnt, persona.

Another significant point is that as I mentioned in earlier posts, Rudd has shown a capacity to change his position or trade away part of his soul (core beliefs) for political gain, eg gay marriage. Abbott on the other hand got the PMship largely by being a small target, saying little or nothing at all on a number of issues, even being deliberately vague so he could more easily avoid being criticised for changing his mind later.

Abbott, has more stronger core beliefs on principle, such as gay marriage, that he will never bow to pressure to change, and only extremely begrudgingly allow law changes for as a last resort to stay in power. 

So basically, I think Rudd has the better measure of his opponent, but needs to sanitise his image a bit from the backbench before kicking in his next campaign.

Now, certain personalities, concrete attitudes and or conflicts of interests may not be able to see the wisdom of subtlety... but behavioural science indicates high correlation of success with larger cohorts, eg the whole electorate.


----------



## drsmith (21 September 2013)

Whiskers said:


> So basically, I think Rudd has the better measure of his opponent, but needs to sanitise his image a bit from the backbench before kicking in his next campaign.



If it's Tony Abbott you regard as Kevin Rudd's opponent, Tony's seen him off twice. 

Labor on the other hand don't seem to be able to rid themselves of this self inflected curse.


----------



## Whiskers (21 September 2013)

drsmith said:


> If it's Tony Abbott you regard as Kevin Rudd's opponent, Tony's seen him off twice.
> 
> Labor on the other hand don't seem to be able to rid themselves of this self inflected curse.




For a 'dr' you seem a bit short of scientific prowess, drsmith! :

While loosely speaking Tony did "seen him off twice"... in the sense that he did see Rudd lose his leadership once and resigned once, but you have to apply the strict unbiased scientific laws of cause and effect to attribute true cause of who seen him off.

In the first 'seen him off' Rudd was seen off by Shorton aligning with Gillard to take advantage of, and even helped exaggerate Rudds fall in poll support. If I recall correctly, Rudd was still more popular than Abbott then. Since the dust has settled, it's clear that the motivation for removing Rudd was to achieve the ideological objectives of a select few including Shorton and Gillard and use the lower pool results as a guise for the justification.

In the second 'seen him off', as I mentioned above, it takes an ability to comprehend a bit bigger picture and distinguish been a defeat and strategic withdrawal.

It doesn't matter too much  if you are just a casual commenter, but if your business plan and future depends on it you'll wish you put in the effort to get the best result you can at the given time.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (21 September 2013)

sails said:


> If so, I wonder why he resigned from the leadership position?  He had his prize, why would he would want to fight for it all over again...




A quote from an ALP MHR last year.



> KEVIN Rudd is "a psychopath with a giant ego" tweeted the ALP's member for Bendigo, Steve Gibbons, last year.




I'm no trickcyclist so just go on what my betters think.

I believe the big words and talk of eggs means he's a nutter.

What he'd want with a giant egg, has me beat.

gg


----------



## AAA (21 September 2013)

I think Rudd is going to be the gift that keeps on giving to the coalition. It would be interesting to see if there was an election within the next year or so due to a double disolution, what tactics the coalition would employ regarding Rudd. Would they try and take his seat by having Glasson run again or would they run a nobody candidate and gift Rudd the seat so as he could keep poisoning the ALP. Rudd staying on after this election is just the icing on the cake as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## MrBurns (21 September 2013)

AAA said:


> I think Rudd is going to be the gift that keeps on giving to the coalition. It would be interesting to see if there was an election within the next year or so due to a double disolution, what tactics the coalition would employ regarding Rudd. Would they try and take his seat by having Glasson run again or would they run a nobody candidate and gift Rudd the seat so as he could keep poisoning the ALP. Rudd staying on after this election is just the icing on the cake as far as I'm concerned.




Yes very true and the hilarious part is that the clueless ALP can't or won't do anything about it.

It's a bit disarming to see the only real opposition to the Libs is in such serious decay, I prefer the Libs to win against a worthy opponent.


----------



## MrBurns (16 October 2013)

> Nicola Roxon calls on Kevin Rudd to quit Parliament, says he had been a 'bastard' as PM
> 
> Former attorney-general Nicola Roxon has delivered a scathing character assessment of Kevin Rudd, saying he "had been a bastard" during his prime ministership and calling on him to quit Parliament.
> 
> ...




http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-...bastard-james-button-memorial-lecture/5027030


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (16 October 2013)

I reckon Rudd will make a move for ALP Leader in about 18 months.

In the meantime he'll drop a few morsels to his pet Journalists and ALP hangers on such as Bongiorno and Bob Ellis.

gg


----------



## Julia (16 October 2013)

> Nicola Roxon calls on Kevin Rudd to quit Parliament, says he had been a 'bastard' as PM
> 
> Former attorney-general Nicola Roxon has delivered a scathing character assessment of Kevin Rudd, saying he "had been a bastard" during his prime ministership and calling on him to quit Parliament.



The Libs will be grateful to Ms Roxon for this addition to their arsenal of the ALP dumping on its own.
Ms Roxon did not hold back.  Well worth a listen for those who haven't caught up with what she said.


----------



## noco (16 October 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I reckon Rudd will make a move for ALP Leader in about 18 months.
> 
> In the meantime he'll drop a few morsels to his pet Journalists and ALP hangers on such as Bongiorno and Bob Ellis.
> 
> gg




GG, what about Banki-ki-Moon?

I still think our Kevvie still  has his eye on Ki-Moons job as UN Secretary General when he retires at the end of 2015.

That is if any country will have the grub.


----------



## Whiskers (17 October 2013)

Julia said:


> The Libs will be grateful to Ms Roxon for this addition to their arsenal of the ALP dumping on its own.




The Libs will get a bit of short term gain, but it's all ultimately more fuel for Rudd to justify a 'popular' comeback.



> Ms Roxon did not hold back.  Well worth a listen for those who haven't caught up with what she said.




Could not hold back... more adequately depicts the situation. When you look beyond the personalities, what is really going on is the Labor right faction has kicked up a gear or two for dominance in the Labor landscape after Rudd's charisma won them government in 2007. 

I stand corrected if I'm wrong, but aren't all the bad noises and defections atm, Roxon, Burke etc coming from Shortens own right faction? Why? Sour grapes maybe, but none-the-less it highlights betrayed trust in the Snake oil salesman for past loyalty, err votes.

*The faceless men from the right are putting in one last gasp to the same determination they did in NSW.*

Farrell, and Feeney both from Shortens faceless men, backroom deals club, also union background and dealed into senate before switching to the reps are... one could say rewarded, but why?... they've done nothing, but stick by their little club now headed by Shorten.

Farrell, an old union ally of Shorten, voted out of Senate (effective July 2014) has been given a job by Shorten while he finds a seat or 'persuade' some other senator to stand aside for him. 

Isn't Farrell the one who controls the pre-selection directly or indirectly of every MP in South Australia... where it is said that if you want to get on, you get on with Don (Farrell).

Albanese accused union power brokers of not listening to the electorate. He once said they are "gross self-indulgent rubbish" and they "should care more about the party and less about themselves." It's not hard to see why the membership supported Albanese and not Shorten.



Garpal Gumnut said:


> I reckon Rudd will make a move for ALP Leader in about 18 months.
> 
> In the meantime he'll drop a few morsels to his pet Journalists and ALP hangers on such as Bongiorno and Bob Ellis.
> 
> gg




I'm not sure when it will happen gg, but I'm thinking this turn of events will rile Rudd like nothing before. 

To think that these bastards got there [Rudds thinking] on the back of my multilateral appeal, then started using (Gillard) and then backstabbing her to kill off all their used pawns, to what... try to repeat NSW all over again!

There's more natural and poetic justice to come.

Rudd is probably the only one with enough mongrel in him to serve up the political bastardry necessary to rid Labor of these bigger bastards acting badly sooner, rather than later!


----------



## waza1960 (17 October 2013)

Feel free to entertain yourselves but this thread should be allowed to die.
 Rudd won't be back IMO he leave parliament within the year (his time has passed)


----------



## MrBurns (17 October 2013)

waza1960 said:


> Feel free to entertain yourselves but this thread should be allowed to die.
> Rudd won't be back IMO he leave parliament within the year (his time has passed)




The thread was only used again to post Roxons assessment of the person Labor gave us as PM.....I think they're all bastards or incompetents, their only motive is self preservation and stuff us.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (17 October 2013)

Whiskers said:


> The Libs will get a bit of short term gain, but it's all ultimately more fuel for Rudd to justify a 'popular' comeback.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Mr.Rudd has been described by his own side as a nutjob.

Having been amongst many nutjobs in the Creek ( Townsville Correctional ) , there are two things one never does with someone like Rudd, drop soap or assume any future course of action. 



waza1960 said:


> Feel free to entertain yourselves but this thread should be allowed to die.
> Rudd won't be back IMO he leave parliament within the year (his time has passed)




My contacts in the ALP tell me that a cohort is assembling to aid the little corporal.

gg


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## dutchie (22 February 2014)

Here I was thinking Harvard University was a prestigious American institution. Lost a lot of credibility.

China post for Kevin Rudd at Harvard

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...rudd-at-harvard/story-fn59niix-1226834370142#

KEVIN Rudd has been appointed as a senior fellow at the prestigious Harvard University and will lead a major research study into US-China relations.

The high-level appointment will see the former prime minister spend most of his time overseas, anchored in Boston and travelling regularly to China and Australia, enabling him to spend time with his wife, Therese Rein, and their family.




What were they thinking? Next thing they will make Gillard a Professor!


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## rumpole (22 February 2014)

dutchie said:


> Here I was thinking Harvard University was a prestigious American institution. Lost a lot of credibility.
> 
> China post for Kevin Rudd at Harvard
> 
> ...





All I can say is pity the people who have to work with him.


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## Calliope (22 February 2014)

dutchie said:


> Here I was thinking Harvard University was a prestigious American institution. Lost a lot of credibility.
> 
> China post for Kevin Rudd at Harvard




Americans are the most ignorant people in the developed world. I read recently that a quarter of Americans don't know that the earth rotates around the sun, and half them have no conception of our evolution from a lower species of animal.

And now the faculty of their most prestigious university, Harvard, think that it is a feather in their cap that have gained the services and made a "senior fellow" out of a guy most intelligent Australians would consider a buffoon.:dunno:


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## Bintang (22 February 2014)

dutchie said:


> What were they thinking? Next thing they will make Gillard a Professor!




She already is
https://www.adelaide.edu.au/news/news64562.html


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## sptrawler (22 February 2014)

dutchie said:


> Here I was thinking Harvard University was a prestigious American institution. Lost a lot of credibility.
> 
> China post for Kevin Rudd at Harvard
> 
> ...




He will be able to explain in mandarin, how the Chinese will "How you say, Rat F### them". lol.


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## drsmith (2 March 2014)

Could this be Australia's answer to Hillary Clinton ?

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...eptance-of-asylum-seekers-20140301-33sqw.html


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## dutchie (5 March 2014)

Attention Attention!!

Everyone short the market!

World War III is about to break out.

Kevin Rudd is going to Russia and Ukraine!!


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## trainspotter (5 March 2014)

dutchie said:


> Attention Attention!!
> 
> Everyone short the market!
> 
> ...




Can't wait for the headline on this one !! 

*ВЛАГАЛИЩЕ ЗЕМЕЛЬНЫЙ* 

is quite easy to translate into any language


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## Garpal Gumnut (5 March 2014)

trainspotter said:


> Can't wait for the headline on this one !!
> 
> *ВЛАГАЛИЩЕ ЗЕМЕЛЬНЫЙ*
> 
> is quite easy to translate into any language




lol 


Огромная территория полна быков, медведей и радости

gg


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## trainspotter (6 March 2014)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> lol
> 
> Огромная территория полна быков, медведей и радости
> 
> gg





They all said in unison "Кто это задница клоун, который был крыса трахал?"


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## Calliope (6 March 2014)

What a shame...no Kievan Rudd or Chicken Kev. (Strewth)



> Mr Rudd, who has insisted the trip is unrelated to the tensions between the nations, this morning confirmed he was in Moscow and had been invited to attend a conference in Kiev.
> Mr Rudd today said his current trip was never going to include a trip to Ukraine but that the conference invite, from an international non-government organisation, was for next month.


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## noco (6 March 2014)

Calliope said:


> What a shame...no Kievan Rudd or Chicken Kev. (Strewth)




Rudd has still got his eye on the UN.Secretary General's job after Banki-Ki-Moon retires at the end of 2015.

Rudd has to keep himself in the global lime light between now and 2015 and I am sure we will see our Kevie on more international movements in the next 18 months.


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## sptrawler (6 March 2014)

Calliope said:


> Americans are the most ignorant people in the developed world. I read recently that a quarter of Americans don't know that the earth rotates around the sun, and half them have no conception of our evolution from a lower species of animal.
> .:dunno:




That's o.k most Labor voters, think that Labor politicians, come from the 'workshop floor'.


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## drsmith (2 November 2016)

Having lost his bid for Supreme Ruler of the World, he's back weighing into domestic politics. 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-02/kevin-rudd-says-asylum-seeker-laws-sink-to-new-lows/7986884

The choice of topic is interesting given that it was perhaps the greatest policy failure of his government. I'm not sure it will be appreciated by Bill Shorten.


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## Knobby22 (2 November 2016)

He want to do a John Howard but he hasn't got the same respect.


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## drsmith (7 November 2016)

He's at it again, this time taking aim at ABC Insiders host Barrie Cassidy,



> In an angry tweet on Sunday, Mr Rudd labelled Mr Cassidy a "dedicated Shortista, Gillardista" and challenged him to point out any factual errors in the 1200 word opinion piece.




http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...y-in-angry-refugee-tweet-20161105-gsiz0d.html


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## sptrawler (8 November 2016)

drsmith said:


> He's at it again, this time taking aim at ABC Insiders host Barrie Cassidy,
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...y-in-angry-refugee-tweet-20161105-gsiz0d.html




There seems to be a lot of Labor politicians, that profess to represent the grass roots belief, but when it all pans out self interest seems to be the driving force.
Labor needs to get back to its roots, a party to support and represent "normal working class Australians".
Rudd is a typical example of Labor politicians, now he's out, he just wants to get into anything, attention deficient dissorder.IMO

They are too busy, trying to represent conflicting agendas.IMO

The coalition need to get rid of Turnbull, tower of jelly, Labor haven't stopped laughing since he got in.IMO


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## Tisme (9 November 2016)

Kevin going for the jugular,

calling out Malcolm as a liar:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...um-seeker-begging-claims-20161108-gskoai.html



> "First, the government announced in December 2007 the end of Mr Howard's Pacific Solution. This was consistent with our pre-election commitments. This was completed on the 8 February 2008, when the last asylum seekers left Nauru. The problem is Mr Turnbull was not opposition leader at the time. Dr [Brendan] Nelson was opposition leader," he said.
> 
> "Second, on becoming opposition leader in September 2008, Mr Turnbull had little to say on asylum policy, let alone 'begging' me to restore Mr Howard's policy."







> "Mr Turnbull's record on this matter is as truthful as his statements during the notorious Godwin Grech affair," he added, in a reference to the affair that triggered a collapse in Mr Turnbull public approval when he was opposition leader in 2009. "Both rest on absolute falsehoods."




Malcolm's credibility is under fire from friends and foes now.


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## drsmith (9 November 2016)

sptrawler said:


> There seems to be a lot of Labor politicians, that profess to represent the grass roots belief, but when it all pans out self interest seems to be the driving force.
> Labor needs to get back to its roots, a party to support and represent "normal working class Australians".
> Rudd is a typical example of Labor politicians, now he's out, he just wants to get into anything, attention deficient dissorder.IMO
> 
> ...



The biggest issue for Malcolm is that his party remains divided. This leaves Labor running amuck.


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