# PPT - Perpetual Limited



## Brengun (25 September 2007)

Is there any problem with PPT atm? Most of the market is going up great at present yet this usual highflyer is showing lame duck prices? Surely it's not still because of ex-div?


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## Brengun (29 September 2007)

A week of terrific shareprice increases esp for mining and banks but PPT shareprice did nothing, nada, zip. What exactly have they invested in?


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## reece55 (5 April 2008)

Nice strong move from Perpetual yesterday.... seems to have broken free from it's deep downtrend of late.......

Next move - looking for a lower low. I have been waiting for years to get a cheaper entry into Perpetual, it's been a great Company for many years and with super fund flows continuing in Australia, I suspect it will continue to generate good profits...

Haven't done a F/A check yet...

Cheers


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## Sean K (5 April 2008)

reece55 said:


> Nice strong move from Perpetual yesterday.... seems to have broken free from it's deep downtrend of late.......
> 
> Next move - looking for a lower low. I have been waiting for years to get a cheaper entry into Perpetual, it's been a great Company for many years and with super fund flows continuing in Australia, I suspect it will continue to generate good profits...
> 
> ...



Yep, looks great reece! 

Have to put it next to AMP and QBE along with some banks as candidates for the recovery....


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## Tyler Durden (1 February 2012)

This used to be worth +$70?!?!


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## skc (2 February 2012)

Tyler Durden said:


> This used to be worth +$70?!?!




High of $84.58 to be precise.

PPT, MQG (high of $98.64) and COH were racing to become the first $100 stock on the ASX back in the days...

But if you take recapitalisation/dilution into account, you will see that there are shares with hisotrical highs that looked absolutely incredible. 

e.g. ELD trading at 24c used to worth $28 a share. PGA @ 6c used to worth $6.15. VPG was takenover at $1.75 having traded at $42. HST used to be worth $40+. But the best I can think of is PIH (the old Babcock & Brown infrastructure) was takenover at $4.90 but had a pre-recapitalisation high of $243.


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## Huskar (2 February 2012)

skc said:


> High of $84.58 to be precise.
> 
> PPT, MQG (high of $98.64) and COH were racing to become the first $100 stock on the ASX back in the days...
> 
> ...




Reminds me of my schoolboy Milton:

"Into what pit thou seest from what height fallen..."

Could be the motto for my portfolio as well..


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## Tyler Durden (2 February 2012)

So what happened to PPT? I have never heard of it before, only caught my attention yesterday when I was looking at other companies, and noticed this currently has about a 9% dividend yield - but me thinks there must be a catch?


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## notting (2 February 2012)

It's basically a wealth manager and the wealthy that were managed by it have become somewhat poorer as have it's share holders, hence it's funds under management have shrunk somewhat as has it's valuation.
It did get a take over bid offer about a year ago which, in line with its broader wisdom, it chose to reject.
It should do well if the worst is behind us for, as you know, even morons can make money in a raging a bull market..


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## Tyler Durden (2 February 2012)

notting said:


> It's basically a wealth manager and the wealthy that were managed by it have become somewhat poorer as have it's share holders, hence it's funds under management have shrunk somewhat as has it's valuation.
> It did get a take over bid offer about a year ago which, in line with its broader wisdom, it chose to reject.
> It should do well if the worst is behind us for, as you know, even morons can make money in a raging a bull market..




Hmmm thanks for the info, sounds like one to keep an eye on!


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## prawn_86 (14 June 2012)

AFR rumouring at possible PE takeover in the wings. Stock currently up about 8% at the moment.

Anyone got these in their portfolio?


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## McLovin (14 June 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> Anyone got these in their portfolio?




I do. These big deals take time to get worked through. If KKR was prepared to pay $40/share last year then someone is still prepared to pay that today because very little has changed. PPT is a good business (with a pretty open share registry), but it's expensive to run, largely because of its trustee business. I imagine they want to strip out the trustee business and keep the FM business. 

I can't see the article on the AFR site, do you have a link?


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## prawn_86 (14 June 2012)

McLovin said:


> I can't see the article on the AFR site, do you have a link?




I just heard it over the wires so haven't actually read the article myself.

What sort of leverage does PPT currently operate under? If PE were to buy them wouldn't they want to gear it up even higher?


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## McLovin (14 June 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> I just heard it over the wires so haven't actually read the article myself.
> 
> What sort of leverage does PPT currently operate under? If PE were to buy them wouldn't they want to gear it up even higher?




There's not much debt (interest cover is out over 25x) and these businesses can be scaled with very little extra cash. The angle that PE would be going for is that PPT employs a lot of people many of them in the trust side of the business. By way of example PTM employs 50-60 people and has FuM of ~$16b, PPT employs 2,200 and has FuM of ~$22b. Strip out even half of those employee expenses (~$200m/year) and you'll increase profit by over ~150%. You could definately load it up with debt, these sort of businesses are great for PE, no CAPEX. I could be wrong, but I highly doubt PE is looking to get involved because of the sleepy trustee business.


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## aussiepat (14 June 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> I just heard it over the wires so haven't actually read the article myself.




I haven't seen it on AFR but there is an article on Business Spectator: http://www.businessspectator.com.au...-pd20120614-V8SHF?OpenDocument&src=edbyo&ir=3


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## McLovin (25 June 2012)

McLovin said:


> There's not much debt (interest cover is out over 25x) and these businesses can be scaled with very little extra cash. The angle that PE would be going for is that PPT employs a lot of people many of them in the trust side of the business. By way of example PTM employs 50-60 people and has FuM of ~$16b, PPT employs 2,200 and has FuM of ~$22b. Strip out even half of those employee expenses (~$200m/year) and you'll increase profit by over ~150%. You could definately load it up with debt, these sort of businesses are great for PE, no CAPEX. I could be wrong, but I highly doubt PE is looking to get involved because of the sleepy trustee business.




Looks as though PPT has decided to stop being an easy target and taken some of McLovin's medicine!



> Investment group Perpetual will cut 300 jobs over the next two years and exit the mortgage lending business as it tightens its belt amid a downturn in the financial services sector.
> 
> But the job losses may not be be confined to Perpetual. The company will also sell its lenders mortgage services business, which could see another 280 people jobs lost, taking the total job cuts to about 580 in a company that employed nearly 1500 people in 2011.




Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/perp...re-could-go-20120625-20x69.html#ixzz1yl6uovOZ

I thought they employed over 2,000 people. Oh well.


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## McLovin (28 February 2013)

Good result. Cost cutting starting to work. A rising market helps this business too.


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## SeekingYields (2 September 2013)

Positive outcomes after 1 full year of CEO's Geoff Lloyd's "Transformation 2015" strategy. Cost reductions are all on track, positive NPAT news. 

But my main concern is the continue FUM drain - whilst net outflows since 2011 has reduced, still in a net outflow position and all this when they have one of the best and experienced investment teams in the Australian marketplace.


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## tinhat (2 September 2013)

SeekingYields said:


> But my main concern is the continue FUM drain




Three large challenges for fund managers like PPT:

1. Industry reform - MySuper - margin squeeze.
2. Huge stampede to SMSF especially by retirees entering or about to enter pension phase.
3. Super FUM pool about to be drawn down by retiring baby-boomers.

A 2011 report into super fund managers by KPMG raises some interesting points. It suggests that fund managers like PPT just might be too small to compete given the flight to SMSF, the squeeze on margins and that funds that are seeing FUM decline might end up in a vicious circle of increasing costs per member.

The report points out that the top 10 fund managers in Australia (a club which PPT does not belong to) have 50% of the funds under management and that consolidation amongst fund managers is likely to continue.

http://www.kpmg.com/AU/en/IssuesAnd...ph-superannuation-trends-and-implications.pdf


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## piggybank (24 December 2013)




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## piggybank (21 February 2014)

Closed today above the $50 mark for the first time since Sept/Oct 2008.


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## peter2 (7 July 2019)

Over five years since any comment on PPT. A dog with fleas doesn't get any pats. 
I've posted monthly and weekly charts of PPT because this is a slow mover. My scanner has identified the current consolidation on the weekly chart and classic chartists may see the head&shoulder pattern. The target for this pattern is $60 which is near the top of the monthly consolidation (which failed). the yearly high is very close at 46. Any BO should make a new yearly high. 

Management has clearly done a poor job since the GFC as PPT is no where near its 2007 highs in contrast to the market index. With bullish markets around the world there's no reason that PPT shouldn't get to the pattern target. It will depend on the mgt team and if they've fixed their problems.


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## notting (16 July 2019)

I have been curious to see how its quarterly funds management performance would go since it tanked with the rest of the market into Dec.  Since then as we know the markets have performed at record recovery rates especially the S&P.
So what kind of recovery is it? Best to look at a very average ugly old dog that pays a good div, Rather than say Magellan or MQG.

If it was strong and pervasive you'd imagine the PPT, a funds manager, would have great quarterly result post the Dec dip.

NOPE.

CAUTION​


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## rnr (21 July 2019)

Having gaped down on Tuesday, following Monday's news it will be interesting to see where the share price heads to from Friday's close of $37.70 as the price is currently sitting above a range of strong support from $37.50 to $36.00.
Was there perhaps an over-reaction to the FUM 4th Quarter Update released last Monday?


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## notting (6 August 2019)

I think it's called technical damage -


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## So_Cynical (29 October 2019)

PPT - Has achieved the lowest level of FUM since FY13, revenue forecasts flat for the next 3 years..


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