# Gold - Get Physical



## Garpal Gumnut (24 January 2020)

It is time to buy Gold bar.

It is the traditional asset when political leadership fails and markets fall precipitously. 

Give your ETF's to your dawg. 

Miners may be another option but only those with secure operations, even then currency failures may affect them. 

My advice is to get physical. 

gg


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## jbocker (24 January 2020)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> It is time to buy Gold bar.
> 
> It is the traditional asset when political leadership fails and markets fall precipitously.
> 
> ...



Never ever thought of purchasing gold before. I know the Mrs would jump at the chance of buying some gold chain necklaces and rings, but I strongly suspect that is marked up a lot a lot more that the actual gold content is worth. I don't think she will come at a gold bar hanging around her neck. Me thinks I better not try that option. AND what chance of flogging her rings and chains! Can you imagine it, "Err sorry dear remember those rings we bought for investment, we need to sell them". I am not sure at what point while uttering that sentence my head gets removed from my body.
Ok more seriously,..
I assume you buy bars at the mint, which is good for me as we have one in Perth. Are the other forms of gold an option, like gold coins or do they suffer a significant marked up price too, like jewellery. There is more interesting appeal to me as coinage or are there some other collectable forms of gold (not jewellery).
I could ask this on the net but fear for a lot of BS advertising, and would rather read from the great minds of the ASF.


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## qldfrog (24 January 2020)

You can buy bullions and coins of various weights even sovereigns, there is only a very small markup for coins as it is really gold per material, not so much coin collector market
Perth mint issues some nice cosmetic coins, Chinese new year etc..as gift for your lady..


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## qldfrog (24 January 2020)

https://www.ainsliebullion.com.au/mobile/home.aspx
I used them in the past, their website can be interesting for you to see available coins price etc
But this is in Brisbane


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## Garpal Gumnut (24 January 2020)

jbocker said:


> Never ever thought of purchasing gold before. I know the Mrs would jump at the chance of buying some gold chain necklaces and rings, but I strongly suspect that is marked up a lot a lot more that the actual gold content is worth. I don't think she will come at a gold bar hanging around her neck. Me thinks I better not try that option. AND what chance of flogging her rings and chains! Can you imagine it, "Err sorry dear remember those rings we bought for investment, we need to sell them". I am not sure at what point while uttering that sentence my head gets removed from my body.
> Ok more seriously,..
> I assume you buy bars at the mint, which is good for me as we have one in Perth. Are the other forms of gold an option, like gold coins or do they suffer a significant marked up price too, like jewellery. There is more interesting appeal to me as coinage or are there some other collectable forms of gold (not jewellery).
> I could ask this on the net but fear for a lot of BS advertising, and would rather read from the great minds of the ASF.






qldfrog said:


> https://www.ainsliebullion.com.au/mobile/home.aspx
> I used them in the past, their website can be interesting for you to see available coins price etc
> But this is in Brisbane





qldfrog said:


> https://www.ainsliebullion.com.au/mobile/home.aspx
> I used them in the past, their website can be interesting for you to see available coins price etc
> But this is in Brisbane




Thanks jbocker,

Best stick with bar for investment. 5oz minimum. Love cools, easier to remove the bars from the undies drawer, dog food container or bullion repository than a partner's neck. Coins good if you enjoy collecting.

Thanks frog,

I buy from Perth Mint and have never used Ainsliebullion. I'll look in to it.

gg


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## explod (25 January 2020)

Great intuition there GG, Aussie gold back at an all time high overnight.

Last week out of the blue a close friend stunned me, as he was always the opposite to my enthusiasm, by saying "I am selling my share portfolio and buying gold" in answer to his question told him the Perth Mint. He's set a higher price than I would but his CBA went for $84.

Yes, cloudy days.


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## finicky (25 January 2020)

A few things off the top of my head about buying gold and gold related investments for novices. 

The conventional advice is to start off with bullion. I'm ambivalent about that because it's not as straightforward as they make out. You buy some physical and what are you going to do with it? I became quite paranoid about mine and got to eventually burying it in the yard. I used to drink a bit in that period and I deliberately buried it in the strangest spots I could think of. Multiple spots. Then, because I was paranoid I didn't keep a map of where I put it. The upshot was? When I came to dig it up to sell it  I was never quite sure that I got all the spots. To this day I suspect one of the stashes is buried at a house I no longer live in. Then, before you sell it you have to transport it. Circumstances at the time meant I had to use a courier to get it to my dealer. The courier knew what it was because of the weight - he actually said it, so then I s**t myself over that, wondering if he was honest, because he didn't particularly look it..

Paranoia - you're living with an elderly family member and you imagine someone getting wind of your stash and torturing the oldie in front of your eyes before you cough up the location. Not so weird, because three members of the silver stackers forum were robbed of their physical in suspiciously targeted burglaries. Gold bugs tend to have paranoia as a preceding condition anyway.

Coins, collectables and numismatics. I found these to be losers when I came to sell. Unless you're willing and able to chase knowledgeable private buyers you will not get back the premium you paid for them. Big hassle shifting your stuff that way. Getting a premium for a collectable coin from a dealer - forget it. My Melbourne dealer, whom I consider ethical, cannot offer more than spot price, if that. So unless you have a fetish for collectables go for the rawest brute bullion bars or coins.

But I would not even do that if I bought today - which I wouldn't. If buying physical today I would go for allocated pooled metal. You never see it. Because its pooled, fees are minimal. Obviously you have no home security issues. When you come to sell, its modern - do it in the internet or with a phone call and the money appears in your account. To view one example, my dealer was: 
https://www.goldstackers.com.au/bullion/types/pool-allocated/

I'd also consider buying through an etf on the stock exchange (code::GOLD) but not so sure about that, never done it.

Best for me by a long shot has been gold miners - you're a part owner of gold in the ground. The first stage in which I did this was early 2000's and I focused on explorers, developers and small 'growing' miners for maximum 'leverage'. I primitively understood that there was a fair bit of risk, so I read what I could about the individual companies and used a scattergun strategy - small amounts into maybe 20 companies. They took me for everthing I had - one by one they all went down, either into administration or hyperinflation of the shares. I couldn't believe all these smiling respectable looking directors were deceiiving self-serving white collar phoneys. These guys were just scoundrels dressing up hyper risky bogus enterprises as investments for the gullible while they pulled six figure salaries, free options and got to call themselves managing directors instead of mediocre geologists, prospectors or accountants which is what they rightfully were. 

My second foray into mining shares went much better. Got off to a late start because, while I was watching some gold miners make money in 2014, I put it down mostly to a low Australian dollar. Also there was bitterness cynicism and fear to overcome. Anyway I gradually built positions in established gold miners with fairly well demonstrated records of profitable years. My one deviation from this cautious approach proved the rule - I put 30 grand into Dacian Gold (DCN) before it fully ramped up production - boom, cratered, turns out the m.d (recently replaced) was, shall we say, 'imaginative'.
But the others have gone quite well and I continue to view them as investments in gold that pay conventional dividends.


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## Bill M (25 January 2020)

For assurity of your product I would only buy from Perth Mint Bullion or an authorised distributor.

Some have already been listed on this thread but here is the full list: https://www.perthmint.com/perth-mint-coin-distributors-australia.aspx

I would only buy 9999 gold as well and I would go for gold coins rather than the bars which come in "The Perth Mint Tamper-Evident Case." Usually the coins sell for about $20 more than the bars so you are not paying that much more considering you are looking at $2300 or more per troy ounce.

Buy as close to spot as you can. All brand new 1 oz coins and bars are $50 to $70 above spot. You won't get better than that unless you find yourself buying on the secondary market. But with that comes risk of fakes too so I would stick with the ones listed above.

When it comes to selling you will most likely get 10% less than spot for anything at a bullion shop or coin dealer, be it a bar or coin. That is unless you fluked a collectable bullion coin and that does happen sometimes. There is one Bullion Shop in Melbourne offering spot for all bullion gold and silver (with quantity limitations) but apart from that I don't know of any others that do.

If spot keeps on going up you don't need to do anything but buy and hold and cash in when you are ready. But if the POG goes south you could well be waiting a long time to get your money back. Good Luck!


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## qldfrog (25 January 2020)

Bill M said:


> For assurity of your product I would only buy from Perth Mint Bullion or an authorised distributor.
> 
> Some have already been listed on this thread but here is the full list: https://www.perthmint.com/perth-mint-coin-distributors-australia.aspx
> 
> ...



About GOLD etf, i do favor the pmgold one as there is supposed to be a one for one gold to paper match and offered by perth mint..a relatively trusted institution
GOLD and other etf are well known as having only a tenth at most of the paper gold they sell, they are basically fiat currency..


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## Bill M (25 January 2020)

qldfrog said:


> About GOLD etf, i do favor the pmgold one as there is supposed to be a one for one gold to paper match and offered by perth mint..a relatively trusted institution
> GOLD and other etf are well known as having only a tenth at most of the paper gold they sell, they are basically fiat currency..



I haven't gone there yet but I heard the Perth Mint one is very good. As for the GOLD ETF it's been around for a long time. It's definitely a way buy and hold gold to avoid direct storage fees (yes the ETF has fees too) but there are a lot of people out there that are sceptical and always say "if you don't hold it you don't own it".


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## qldfrog (25 January 2020)

Note you can hire a safe in a vault for a few hundreds a year in many places
So no need to dig the yard, and no risk to have your family tortured as it is quite a work to access it


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## qldfrog (25 January 2020)

Bill M said:


> I haven't gone there yet but I heard the Perth Mint one is very good. As for the GOLD ETF it's been around for a long time. It's definitely a way buy and hold gold to avoid direct storage fees (yes the ETF has fees too) but there are a lot of people out there that are sceptical and always say "if you don't hold it you don't own it".



I own PMGOLD and in my view it is as good as it gets but indeed if you do not hold it ..
This is the way i do get in and out of gold for short medium term
Hope it helps


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## jbocker (25 January 2020)

Thank You @finicky @Bill M @qldfrog  wow some fabulous insights and experience. I did look up the Perth Mint site, very interesting. I am a philatelist and collecting sits well with me, but stamp collecting as an investment is very risky. I am currently collecting a set from every country that released a stamp in the year of my birth. (I should start a separate thread for stamp investments and keep this one for GOLD) Thanks @Garpal Gumnut loving this discussion.


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## qldfrog (25 January 2020)

jbocker said:


> Thank You @finicky @Bill M @qldfrog  wow some fabulous insights and experience. I did look up the Perth Mint site, very interesting. I am a philatelist and collecting sits well with me, but stamp collecting as an investment is very risky. I am currently collecting a set from every country that released a stamp in the year of my birth. (I should start a separate thread for stamp investments and keep this one for GOLD) Thanks @Garpal Gumnut loving this discussion.



PM me with your year of birth, I might have the french one if still missing or if you have a list


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## Garpal Gumnut (25 January 2020)

Thanks everyone for their input, all views are valid given particular situations. I infer by this to one's stake, state of mind, the market for spot gold, tolerance for risk, the state of the share market as well as the mundane but nonetheless important matters such as one's memory and access to a shovel. 

I believe that instruments such as Gold ETF's will become illiquid in a proper market crash. A crash is characterised by desperate fearful sellers, hopeful holders and anticipatory buyers. ETF's will behave differently depending their underlying, however they may become equally illiquid depending on the currency value holdings, puts and other hedging strategies they employ. 

Gold ETF's are not immune to being run by muppets.

When all goes to crap having Gold bar in one's hands, arms, garden, granny's grave etc. beats all other holdings. This has been a valid strategy for millenia. 

My second choice would be large Gold stocks with good reserves. 

gg


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## fergee (25 January 2020)

@Dona Ferentes posted this on the Palladium thread a day or so ago and I would recommend any one who is interested in buying PM ETFs and futures to have a read of it whilst considering how to invest in PMs. 



Dona Ferentes said:


> Sprott blog:
> https://www.sprottmoney.com/Blog/the-magic-palladium-bullet-in-2020.html


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## aus_trader (28 January 2020)

Always a great discussion on the subject GG. I have also thought of storing some physical Gold for months and months and discussed extensively with ASF members to get ideas. Finally decided to buy some Gold ETF's and related ETF's instead as I don't have the nerve to hold onto it, paranoid would be more like the correct description as finicky described in in-depth details earlier. That thread that I started, for those interested can be found here:

Storing Physical _Gold_ - Coins etc.

The only other way I would consider is to buy directly from Perth Mint (PM) and store it at their vaults but that does attract storage fees, so if the investment takes a long time to pay off that could be a negative to pay years of vault storage fees. If I had a crystal ball that could predict when Gold begins it's next bull market then I think I'll go with them despite the cost of storage as PM has been around a very long time and backed by Govt of WA, predominantly the Gold producing state.


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## Garpal Gumnut (29 January 2020)

For those about to buy physical Gold bar, timing as with stocks is important. 

Fundamentals may be misleading as it remains a market, with all a market's foibles and traps. 

Remember that gold bar is a long term investment for the average person, and do not be caught out by the madness of crowds. 

I say this because the less one pays, the more bar one can buy.

On the other hand if a sniffle turns in to a pandemic then now may be a suitable time. 

Observe the charts as always. 

gg


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## Dona Ferentes (31 January 2020)

_Am I missing anything here, about the ETF issued by Perth Mint PMGOLD (which I own). Especially point 2 about being Physically Redeemable:_

*ASX: PMGOLD*

Perth Mint Gold (ASX CODE: PMGOLD) is a right to gold created by The Perth Mint, which gives investors the ability to purchase Government-backed gold via the Australian Securities Exchange (ASX).

PMGOLD suits investors who prefer to manage their gold investment within their stockbroking account along with their ASX-listed equities and other holdings.

*About Perth Mint Gold*
The ASX price of PMGOLD is intended to track the international spot price of gold in Australian dollars. PMGOLD has a number of features that make it attractive to investors, including:


*Government guaranteed*. PMGOLD is issued by Gold Corporation (trading as The Perth Mint), a statutory authority of the Government of Western Australia. The liabilities of Gold Corporation, including its obligations to PMGOLD investors, are guaranteed under section 22 of the Gold Corporation Act 1987, an Act of the Western Australian Parliament.
*Physically redeemable*. Unlike many gold exchange traded products, PMGOLD can be physically redeemed for any of The Perth Mint’s bullion coins and bars.
*Fully backed*. Holdings secured on behalf of investors in PMGOLD are fully underpinned by government-backed gold, which is safeguarded in The Perth Mint’s central bank grade vaults.
*Low management fee*. PMGOLD’s management fee is just 0.15%, one of the lowest fees worldwide for a gold exchange traded product.
*Highly liquid*. The Perth Mint, via its market making agents, ensures PMGOLD tracks the international spot price of gold by maintaining bid and offer prices and volume on the ASX at all times, in accordance with ASX rules.
*Convenient*. PMGOLD can be purchased and sold through your stockbroker or share trading account with the same ease and convenience as investing in shares.


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## Garpal Gumnut (31 January 2020)

Dona Ferentes said:


> _Am I missing anything here, about the ETF issued by Perth Mint PMGOLD (which I own). Especially point 2 about being Physically Redeemable:_
> 
> *ASX: PMGOLD*
> 
> ...



You are missing something. 

When you buy Gold bar from Perth Mint you can take physical possession of it, i.e. hold it in your mitts. 

An ETF although usually redeemable/trade-able is an ephemeral object. 

gg


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## Dona Ferentes (31 January 2020)

So this handshake isn't worth the paper it's written on?


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## aus_trader (31 January 2020)

Dona Ferentes said:


> So this handshake isn't worth the paper it's written on?




I think it should be honorable, given it's WA Government backed.

I would be cautious of other Bullion dealers in case they disappear with your Cash/Gold. But Perth Mint is known world-wide and I think we'll have some Armageddon level catastrophes down under if that was to disappear as well.


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## qldfrog (31 January 2020)

I think pmgold is as good as it gets for paper gold, I mentionned it much earlier in the thread: disclaimer, I hold substantial amount, more this week....


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## Garpal Gumnut (31 January 2020)

qldfrog said:


> I think pmgold is as good as it gets for paper gold, I mentionned it much earlier in the thread: disclaimer, I hold substantial amount, more this week....



Thanks @qldfrog

Many commenters probably weren't even born when Pyramid and other banks/societies went bust in Victoria in 1990 leading to eventual bail outs. 

Many funds are run by young boys or girls just out of Uni with connections or antiquated ex-AMP insurance salesmen. 

How do they manage risk?
Look at the fine print in the ETF's for exclusions from a bust.
How do they manage forward sales, calls, puts. ?
Are they competent?
Are they taking risks hidden from the finance and audit committee?
Would the spread widen in a depression?

There is not an instrument traded on the market that does not have the potential to go to zero.

pmgold may be an exception and we may not have a depression. 

In a proper depression ETF's even though government backed would rank below physical gold bar in one's possession. Just my opinion.

gg


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## Dona Ferentes (31 January 2020)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Thanks @qldfrog
> 
> Many commenters probably weren't even born when Pyramid and other banks/societies went bust in Victoria in 1990 ..



Best comment from that era (and I swear it was quoted in the media at the time); "_I thought I was diversified; I had half in the Geelong Pyramid Branch and half in Ballarat Pyramid branch"._


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## qldfrog (1 February 2020)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Thanks @qldfrog
> 
> Many commenters probably weren't even born when Pyramid and other banks/societies went bust in Victoria in 1990 leading to eventual bail outs.
> 
> ...



@Garpal Gumnut , i would stay heavy on gold, and feel free to use PMGOLD if you need flexibility and convenience.between to coronovirus and markets at all high, i do not think it is a bad bet at the present


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## Dona Ferentes (1 February 2020)

qldfrog said:


> @Garpal Gumnut , i would stay heavy on gold, and feel free to use PMGOLD if you need flexibility and convenience.between to coronovirus and markets at all high, i do not think it is a bad bet at the present



Agree. (and glad to see you using capitals; PMGOLD and all the other TLAs get lost otherwise)


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## Dona Ferentes (1 February 2020)

From Chuck Butlers at GCRU (Gold Charts R Us)


> I haven't touched on the massive amounts of derivatives in the markets these days in a while, and then I saw this from Ainslie Bullion… “the idea that derivatives are not a source of systemic risk because the open (netted) position may seem small is one of the great misconceptions about derivatives. Derivatives fund nothing, but serve to shift exposures from one party to another and work through margins (collateral), yet they carry all the bankruptcy characteristics of debt for the out-of-the-money party. A sudden move on volatility can shift the Gross Market Value quickly, and netting provides no protection for this. Netting is about settlement amounts using prices at the point of close out. Netting does not protect any financial firm from market risk.”





> In 2008, we were within an eyelash of a catastrophic moment in derivatives… Did we learn anything then? No… The number of derivatives in the markets place today far exceeds where we were in 2008… I just don’t know how to explain this any further to you folks, other than to say that The debt has grown by so much that it seems impossible for it not to eventually trigger the kind of uncontrolled or ‘disorderly’ market event that sees the derivative ‘worst case’ issue playing out. And once again I ask… _*Got Gold*_?


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## axyd (5 March 2020)

Yes. Physical, small, easily carried and exchanged items - only coins, not bars.

Gold investment is an insurance against the doom day. Buying ETFs and other virtual stuff - it's like buying insurance against Titanic crash from someone on Titanic.

The highest prices for gold and the time you want to sell it will be when financial markets and banks would fall. If you miss that day and won't sell it - you miss the highest sell price. So it's better to keep it handy, physical, exchangeable without requiring advanced tech (like to check bar quality) - i.e. - physical coins.

Also, virtual gold has risk of counter-party and easy for government to seize and pay you back its value at "fair" price. And "soft" risk - when provider in hard times - times when you need gold - may employ technics of abusing laws and delaying your request for months, asking you to prove this and that etc. And while eventually it may fulfil the transaction - the time of high prices when you want to sell will be long gone.

Also, probably better to keep famous and internationally recognisable coins - like maple coin.


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## axyd (5 March 2020)

By the way, where in Australia you can buy international coins (like Maple etc) close to the spot price?


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## aus_trader (5 March 2020)

axyd said:


> Also, virtual gold has risk of counter-party and easy for government to seize and pay you back its value at "fair" price. And "soft" risk - when provider in hard times - times when you need gold - may employ technics of abusing laws and delaying your request for months, asking you to prove this and that etc. And while eventually it may fulfil the transaction - the time of high prices when you want to sell will be long gone.



Well, physical is not all that different either when it comes to politicians. Don't forget the lesson from history when owning physical gold was made illegal and had to be handed in to the Government ! They'll confiscate anything that is of value when the times get rough 



axyd said:


> By the way, where in Australia you can buy international coins (like Maple etc) close to the spot price?



Try eBay, there's a few sellers offering such coins bit above spot price + postage costs.


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## Dona Ferentes (28 March 2020)

It may be harder to get your paws on the physical stuff; according to Sprotts
https://www.sprottmoney.com/
all deliveries of gold in Canada are suspended as
a) offices forced to close (in Ontario at least)
b) UPS will neither insure deliveries nor seek client signatures.

_(<hat-tip; Mick>)_


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## aus_trader (29 March 2020)

I also read that there is a disconnect between the spot prices (based on futures) which has come down recently and real prices based on the price of the physical which has gone up in demand.


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## noirua (29 March 2020)

There is far more paper gold floating around than there is physical gold to deliver. Take very great care that it is backed for certain by physical gold. Most when it comes down to it are not - maybe a few like Sprott are but not that many more. Having the paper price backed by the gold price is not the same and may go up in smoke literally.

With companies many sell gold forward for delivery later. That can go disastrously wrong as with Sons of Gwalia Limited. St Barbara Limited did well out of it when purchasing Gwalia Deeps and mining by interconnecting old tunnels.


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## qldfrog (29 March 2020)

noirua said:


> There is far more paper gold floating around than there is physical gold to deliver. Take very great care that it is backed for certain by physical gold. Most when it comes down to it are not - maybe a few like Sprott are but not that many more. Having the paper price backed by the gold price is not the same and may go up in smoke literally.
> 
> With companies many sell gold forward for delivery later. That can go disastrously wrong as with Sons of Gwalia Limited. St Barbara Limited did well out of it when purchasing Gwalia Deeps and mining by interconnecting old tunnels.



What is your view on PMGOLD regarding paper gold
Am i fooling myself in thinking they are one of the few 1:1 paper gold around?


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## Garpal Gumnut (29 March 2020)

Dona Ferentes said:


> It may be harder to get your paws on the physical stuff; according to Sprotts
> https://www.sprottmoney.com/
> all deliveries of gold in Canada are suspended as
> a) offices forced to close (in Ontario at least)
> ...




This is very good news indeed @Dona Ferentes 

Anything that increases scarcity increases value. I can provide a citation to a recent article in the Australian Journal of Toilet Roll.

It is always unwise to have physical gold in the hands of those unused to it's care, storage and retrieval.

Once the hordes have removed all those undeserving of wealth, their girlfriends and boyfriends, copper pipes and wiring, food, clothing, alcohol, cocaine and lesser substances, from Toorak or Rose Bay I intend to buy a property from a distressed seller and move in with my hoochie, old army issue and a metal detector and shovel. 

gg


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## Dona Ferentes (29 March 2020)

AJTR ; is that competing with the longer established and decidedly more balanced JTRA?


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## Dona Ferentes (29 March 2020)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> It is time to buy Gold bar.
> 
> My advice is to get physical.



But, golly gosh, what if we can't??


> *BULLION - LIMITED STOCK AVAILABLE*
> 
> Due to overwhelming demand for our products during this time we are out of stock of many items and some will be subject to considerable delays before they become available again.





> *Silver Bullion Coins:* We have very few products still available and will focus our efforts on manufacturing the 2020 Kangaroo 1oz Silver Bullion Coins
> *Gold Bullion Coins:* We currently have 2020 Kangaroo 1oz and 1/10oz Gold Bullion Coins available and this will be our ongoing focus during this period.
> *Cast and Minted bars:* Are currently out of stock and at this time we cannot take orders for any size while we work to satisfy the current backlog of orders.



https://www.perthmint.com/covid19.aspx


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## Garpal Gumnut (29 March 2020)

Dona Ferentes said:


> But, golly gosh, what if we can't??
> 
> https://www.perthmint.com/covid19.aspx




That post of mine was Jan 24th 2020.

Scarcity increases the value.



gg


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## noirua (25 April 2020)

Http://goldprice.org/charts/gold_3d_b_o_AUD.png


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## Dona Ferentes (4 July 2020)

aus_trader said:


> I also read that there is a disconnect between the spot prices (based on futures) which has come down recently and real prices based on the price of the physical which has gone up in demand.



Jim Rickards recently wrote







> ... [a factor is] the emergence of a two-tier market. Gold futures prices and London market prices are around US$1,740 per ounce recently. But, if you call a real dealer to buy real gold, the price they quote is ‘spot plus commission’. That’s fine, but the commissions have been expanding from 2% to 4%, to 10%, and even higher in some cases.





> This means that US$1,740 per ounce gold is really US$1,915 per ounce with a 10% commission. That higher commission is not the result of dealer greed. It’s the result of scarcity and the dealer’s efforts to balance supply and demand.
> 
> What it really means is that real price of gold is closer to US$1,850 per ounce once the excess commission is added to the spot price. When it comes to gold prices, forget New York and London. Real prices are already higher than you know.



Plenty of 'spot fires' around the world. For example, people are buying gold in Saudi prior to trebling of VAT. And in HK, you'd would have to see a rise in gold demand.


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## noirua (11 July 2020)

*On the way to the next Resistance GOLD Futures by ThinkingAntsOk*
https://www.tradingview.com/chart/G...xt-Resistance-GOLD-Futures-by-ThinkingAntsOk/


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## Garpal Gumnut (11 July 2020)

I bought as much physical gold as I could bury before Covid-19 hit. Luck, but I knew that fundamentally the market was stuffed and it is, just being kept up by printed money and the Orange Clown in Washington DC. Covid has just made it glaringly obvious.

As to the future and gold futures, who knows. 

If you need to think about buying gold when it's at it's all time highs and physical gold is in short supply (as it is) then a golder or futures or other derivatives/drivers are as good a way as any. I'll not be selling my bars but passing them on to the Gumnuts present and emerging. 

btw Much as Prince MBS of Saudi Arabia and I do not see eye to eye on chopping alive journalists in to little pieces, it is a good bet that if he is buying it, that it is a good investment.

gg


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## finicky (5 August 2020)

China citizens have a lot to worry about. Doesn't look like the CCP's attempts to steer them away from Gold (for their own good of course) is taking hold yet!

Says article from 3 days ago:
https://news.bitcoin.com/major-chinese-banks-bar-customers-from-buying-gold-precious-metals/

*Chinese Banks and Regulators to ‘Cool Gold Rush’*

"Chinese regulators and major banks are taking measures to curb the trading of gold and other precious metals by investors in order “to cool [the] gold rush,” Reuters reported Wednesday. Gold prices hit record highs this week as investors look for safe-haven assets amid worries of rising coronavirus cases, the sinking U.S. dollar, low-interest rates, and increasing tension between the U.S. and China."

*20 Year China Yuan Gold Price*
*

*


----------



## finicky (6 August 2020)

Again providing an angle of perspective as to how high the USD Gold price is relative to another financial asset - the US stockmarket. Gold's not out of bounds at all - its price is only catching up to its average in these terms.
https://www.mining.com/this-50-year-chart-shows-just-how-cheap-gold-now-is-relative-to-stocks-39584/

The graph is lifted from an article published in Jan 2020 and I am taking their premises at face value (i.e correct)

Over 50 years - dating back to roughly when President Nixon reneged on the redeemability of the USD in gold for foreign governments - the S&P500 could be bought for an *average* *1.55* ounces of Gold:

S&P500 is today at *$3327*
Therefore if gold was at the average 'exchange rate' today the price would be:
$3327 ÷ 1.55 = *$2,146* USD


----------



## qldfrog (6 August 2020)

finicky said:


> Again providing an angle of perspective as to how high the USD Gold price is relative to another financial asset - the US stockmarket. Gold's not out of bounds at all - its price is only catching up to its average in these terms.
> https://www.mining.com/this-50-year-chart-shows-just-how-cheap-gold-now-is-relative-to-stocks-39584/
> 
> The graph is lifted from an article published in Jan 2020 and I am taking their premises at face value (i.e correct)
> ...



Thanks found his quite interesting
Great find


----------



## noirua (9 August 2020)

*UNPRECEDENTED: Bullion Banks Take Losses On 124 Tonnes Of Scarce Physical Gold, Plus Hedge Funds Also Exposed To Gold Short Squeeze Along With Bullion Banks*
*https://kingworldnews.com/bullion-banks-take-losses-on-124-tonnes-of-scarce-physical-gold/*
https://kingworldnews.com/alasdair-macleod-8-8-2020/


----------



## finicky (28 August 2020)




----------



## Garpal Gumnut (31 August 2020)

Gold is up and running again.

gg


----------



## finicky (31 August 2020)

Could it be near the end of a normal correction of the rally from mid June. 
abc falling wedge - Ignoring the 1 day spike down in August? Resolve soon I guess.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (2 September 2020)

Gold can fluctuate wildly and is for the brave to trade dynamically. See this sudden fall just some minutes ago ( NY time ) and the reason attached, job numbers and the algo stop losses kick in.Algos v.v. active this month due to traders on vacation.

gg

https://www.kitco.com/news/2020-09-...wing-rise-in-ISM-manufacturing-sentiment.html


----------



## againsthegrain (27 September 2020)

sorry if this is the wrong thread but its as close as I can find. Im thinking to get some physical bullion in Melb once the lockdown is finished. Been recommended Abc Australian Bullion Company in Melb cbd.  Anybody here deal with them before?


----------



## finicky (28 September 2020)

@againsthegrain 
ABC Bullion reputable, pretty sure I've bought from them in the dim past

This is the dealer I engage with and I've found them very helpful over the years. They're in the CBD: 





						Buy Gold & Silver Bullion Online - Gold Stackers
					

Australia's leading gold & silver bullion dealers since 1980 . Buy or sell gold and silver at great spot prices online or instore. It is safe, simple and secure.




					www.goldstackers.com.au
				



They also offer pooled precious metal services whereby you can buy physically backed metal which they hold and you can quickly liquidate online when you decide. No storage hassles or risks, can buy and sell small amounts.

They have an historical association with silverstackers.com where you might like to check out peer to peer offers - can work out cheaper when you buy and a better deal when you sell if your metal has any premium value, such as collectable coins rather than brute metal. If you're just starting I would recommend staying away from special coins, just go for 99.99 gold, 99.9 silver, brute bullion. 








						Australia & New Zealand (Public)
					

Buy, swap or sell bullion & numismatics. Visible to general public.




					www.silverstackers.com


----------



## againsthegrain (28 September 2020)

finicky said:


> @againsthegrain
> ABC Bullion reputable, pretty sure I've bought from them in the dim past
> 
> This is the dealer I engage with and I've found them very helpful over the years. They're in the CBD:
> ...




Thanx for the info,  yes im strictly sticking to bullion


----------



## againsthegrain (29 September 2020)

I have been doing research on cgt from physical gold sales but it seems there is a bit of complexity. 

Most of these places let you purchase upto 5k with cash without making any records. 

Say I accumulate bullion over 5 years spending under 5k at a time. If I make 4 purchases per year over 5 years I would hold 100k gold now this is no longer petty change. Then in 7 years time the chart spikes or life throws a curve ball and I decide to sell it all in 1 go. 

Obviously I need to keep records how much and when I bought all my holdings,  but what if I don't or some bullion is donated by family etc 

Not asking for advice, thinking aloud here and wondering how others handle/selling bullion from a tax perspective


----------



## finicky (29 September 2020)

I recommend that you pay a silver coin (if that's still what they do) and become a full member of silverstackers. You can talk online or what I would do is go along to one of their meetings (soirees, lol). Meetings are rare in Melbourne but a fun overnight stay in Sydney might be informative about precious metals.
I haven't sold any gold but I kept my purchase records for silver and when I sold it I paid cgt which I resented. Silver pays no interest or dividend but costs to store  and is an ancient form of money. Why the hell should I have had to pay tax on it because it appreciated against the AUD? If I stored Swiss francs for years and exchanged them to my advantage against AUD whch had depreciated over the period against the CHf would I have had to pay cgt tax?
Don't overlook platinum.


----------



## aus_trader (29 September 2020)

I think people should be rewarded or at least left alone for trying to protect their assets/wealth against depreciating paper currency, not taxed


----------



## againsthegrain (22 October 2020)

So I got my first bullion bar from ABC bullion.  I am curious how do people here check the Gold they buy for being genuine?

Buying from a reputable dealer with brand stamped should be a good guarantee but everything can be faked as some of the stories on the internet go around.

I was simply given a bullion bar in a pouch and a invoice,  is there something I should be asking or doing upon receipt in the future?


----------



## fergee (22 October 2020)

againsthegrain said:


> So I got my first bullion bar from ABC bullion.  I am curious how do people here check the Gold they buy for being genuine?
> 
> Buying from a reputable dealer with brand stamped should be a good guarantee but everything can be faked as some of the stories on the internet go around.
> 
> I was simply given a bullion bar in a pouch and a invoice,  is there something I should be asking or doing upon receipt in the future?




Some bullion dealers have a machine to test its density I believe, a lot of them will do it for free too, you can find them in major cities.

You can do a self check with a glass of water and by measuring the size of the bar, the vid below shows the different ways tests can be done.


----------



## Boggo (22 October 2020)

againsthegrain said:


> So I got my first bullion bar from ABC bullion. * I am curious how do people here check the Gold they buy for being genuine?*
> 
> Buying from a reputable dealer with brand stamped should be a good guarantee but everything can be faked as some of the stories on the internet go around.
> 
> I was simply given a bullion bar in a pouch and a invoice,  is there something I should be asking or doing upon receipt in the future?




When you decide to sell it they will check the quality, too late then though if it's substandard !


----------



## againsthegrain (22 October 2020)

Boggo said:


> When you decide to sell it they will check the quality, too late then though if it's substandard !




yeah next time ill ask them to test it in front of me in their machine.  I guess since they test everything they buy then everything they sell would of went through that test but have to take their word for it. 

I weighted it with a cheap kmart scale showed 51 then 49 and 50 so I think its ok


----------



## aus_trader (22 October 2020)

againsthegrain said:


> yeah next time ill ask them to test it in front of me in their machine.  I guess since they test everything they buy then everything they sell would of went through that test but have to take their word for it.
> 
> I weighted it with a cheap kmart scale showed 51 then 49 and 50 so I think its ok



Sounds Legit 

Store it safely, before anyone notices


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (11 November 2020)

It is time in my opinion to buy and bury gold bar again. 

Over the past 30 days gold has fallen 2.25% in AUD and 3.5% in USD. 

The Land of Hope and Glory is returning to a Wild West scenario and will be unstable for some time to come. 

Even on the ASX punters are buying Banks, who are basically insolvent without borrowed government money, in the middle of a plague. 

The plague is not ending soon even though Pfizer in true Wild West style are selling a "Potion that Cures" Laaaaydees and Genttttulmen.

Buy and Bury gold is what I'm doing again. The show ain't over until someone drives a stake in to the heart of the fat Orange Fool. 

gg


----------



## wayneL (11 November 2020)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> It is time in my opinion to buy and bury gold bar again.
> 
> Over the past 30 days gold has fallen 2.25% in AUD and 3.5% in USD.
> 
> ...



It doesn't matter whether the God Emperor or the demented China shill gets up, all OECD currencies are going to take it where the sun don't shine.

Protect thyself accordingly, of which physical gold, _inter alia_, should be a priority.


----------



## aus_trader (11 November 2020)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> until someone drives a stake in to the heart of the fat Orange Fool.



Not going to happen, but really funny GG


----------



## Bob (12 November 2020)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> It is time in my opinion to buy and bury gold bar again.
> 
> Over the past 30 days gold has fallen 2.25% in AUD and 3.5% in USD.
> 
> ...





*Benefits to USA since Trump was elected:

1. Trump recently signed 3 bills to benefit Native people. One gives compensation to the Spokane tribe for loss of their lands in the mid-1900s, one funds Native language programs, and the third gives federal recognition to the Little Shell Tribe of Chippewa Indians in Montana.

2. Trump finalized the creation of Space Force as our 6th Military branch.

3. Trump signed a law to make cruelty to animals a federal felony so that animal abusers face tougher consequences.  

4.) Violent crime has fallen every year he’s been in office after rising during the 2 years before he was elected.


5. Trump signed a bill making CBD and Hemp legal.  
6. Trump’s EPA gave $100 million to fix the water infrastructure problem in Flint, Michigan.

7. Under Trump’s leadership, in 2018 the U.S. surpassed Russia and Saudi Arabia to become the world’s largest producer of crude oil.

8. Trump signed a law ending the gag orders on Pharmacists that prevented them from sharing money-saving information.

9. Trump signed the “Allow States and Victims to Fight Online Sex Trafficking Act” (FOSTA), which includes the “Stop Enabling Sex Traffickers Act” (SESTA) which both give law enforcement and victims new tools to fight sex trafficking.  
10. Trump signed a bill to require airports to provide spaces for breastfeeding Moms.

11. The 25% lowest-paid Americans enjoyed a 4.5% income boost in November 2019, which outpaces a 2.9% gain in earnings for the country’s highest-paid workers.

12. Low-wage workers are benefiting from higher minimum wages and from corporations that are increasing entry-level pay.

13. Trump signed the biggest wilderness protection & conservation bill in a decade and designated 375,000 acres as protected land.

14. Trump signed the Save our Seas Act which funds $10 million per year to clean tons of plastic & garbage from the ocean.  
15. He signed a bill this year allowing some drug imports from Canada so that prescription prices would go down.

16. Trump signed an executive order this year that forces all health care providers to disclose the cost of their services so that Americans can comparison shop and know how much fewer providers charge 

17. When signing that bill he said no American should be blindsided by bills for medical services they never agreed to in advance.

18. Hospitals will now be required to post their standard charges for services, which include the discounted price a hospital is willing to accept.

19. In the eight years prior to President Trump’s inauguration, prescription drug prices increased by an average of 3.6% per year. Under Trump, drug prices have seen year-over-year declines in nine of the last ten months, with a 1.1% drop as of the most recent month.

20. He created a White House VA Hotline to help veterans and principally staffed it with veterans and direct family members of veterans.  
21. VA employees are being held accountable for poor performance, with more than 4,000 VA employees removed, demoted, and suspended so far.

22. Issued an executive order requiring the Secretaries of Defense, Homeland Security, and Veterans Affairs to submit a joint plan to provide veterans access to access to mental health treatment as they transition to civilian life.

23. Because of a bill signed and championed by Trump, In 2020, most federal employees will see their pay increase by an average of 3.1% — the largest raise in more than 10 years.

24. Trump signed into law up to 12 weeks of paid parental leave for millions of federal workers.

25. Trump administration will provide H.I.V. prevention drugs for free to 200,000 uninsured patients per year for 11 years.  


26. All-time record sales during the 2019 holidays.

27. Trump signed an order allowing small businesses to group together when buying insurance to get a better price 
28. President Trump signed the Preventing Maternal Deaths Act that provides funding for states to develop maternal mortality reviews to better understand maternal complications and identify solutions & largely focuses on reducing the higher mortality rates for Black Americans.

29. In 2018, President Trump signed the groundbreaking First Step Act, a criminal justice bill that enacted reforms that make our justice system fairer and help former inmates successfully return to society.

30. The First Step Act’s reforms addressed inequities in sentencing laws that disproportionately harmed Black Americans and reformed mandatory minimums that created unfair outcomes.  
31. The First Step Act expanded judicial discretion in the sentencing of nonviolent crimes.

32. Over 90% of those benefiting from the retroactive sentencing reductions in the First Step Act are Black Americans.

33. The First Step Act provides rehabilitative programs to inmates, helping them successfully rejoin society and not return to crime.

34. Trump increased funding for Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs) by more than 14%.  
35. Trump signed legislation forgiving Hurricane Katrina debt that threatened HBCUs.

36. New single-family home sales are up 31.6% in October 2019 compared to just one year ago.

37. Made HBCUs a priority by creating the position of executive director of the White House Initiative on HBCUs.



38. Trump received the Bipartisan Justice Award at a historically black college for his criminal justice reform accomplishments.

39. The poverty rate fell to a 17-year low of 11.8% under the Trump administration as a result of a jobs-rich environment.  
40. Poverty rates for African-Americans and Hispanic-Americans have reached their lowest levels since the U.S. began collecting such data.

41. President Trump signed a bill that creates five national monuments, expands several national parks, adds 1.3 million acres of wilderness, and permanently reauthorizes the Land and Water, Conservation Fund.

42. Trump’s U.S.D.A. committed $124 Million to rebuild rural water infrastructure.  
43. Consumer confidence & small business confidence is at an all-time high.

44. More than 7 million jobs created since the election.

45. More Americans are now employed than ever recorded before in our history.

46. More than 400,000 manufacturing jobs created since his election.

47. Trump appointed 5 openly gay ambassadors.  
48. Trump ordered Ric Grenell, his openly gay ambassador to Germany, to lead a global initiative to decriminalize homosexuality across the globe.

49. Through Trump’s Anti-Trafficking Coordination Team (ACTeam) initiative, Federal law enforcement more than doubled convictions of human traffickers and increased the number of defendants charged by 75% in ACTeam districts.

50. In 2018, the Department of Justice (DOJ) dismantled an organization that was the internet’s leading source of prostitution-related advertisements resulting in sex trafficking.

51. Trump’s OMB published new anti-trafficking guidance for government procurement officials to more effectively combat human trafficking.



52. Trump’s Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s Homeland Security Investigations arrested 1,588 criminals associated with Human Trafficking.

53. Trump’s Department of Health and Human Services provided funding to support the National Human Trafficking Hotline to identify perpetrators and give victims the help they need.

54. The hotline identified 16,862 potential human trafficking cases.

55. Trump’s DOJ provided grants to organizations that support human trafficking victims — serving nearly 9,000 cases from July 1, 2017, to June 30, 2018. 
56. The Department of Homeland Security has hired more victim assistance specialists, helping victims get resources and support.

57. President Trump has called on Congress to pass school choice legislation so that no child is trapped in a failing school because of his or her ZIP code.  
58. The President signed funding legislation in September 2018 that increased funding for school choice by $42 million.

59. The tax cuts signed into law by President Trump promote school choice by allowing families to use 529 college savings plans for elementary and secondary education.  
60. Under his leadership, ISIS has lost most of its territory and been largely dismantled.

61. ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was killed.

62. Signed the first Perkins C.T.E. reauthorization since 2006, authorizing more than $1 billion for states each year to fund vocational and career education programs.

63. Executive order expanding apprenticeship opportunities for students and workers.

64. Trump issued an Executive Order prohibiting the U.S. government from discriminating against Christians or punishing expressions of faith.

65. Signed an executive order that allows the government to withhold money from college campuses deemed to be anti-Semitic and who fail to combat anti-Semitism.

66. President Trump ordered a halt to U.S. tax money going to international organizations that fund or perform abortions.

67. Trump imposed sanctions on the socialists in Venezuela who have killed their citizens.

68. Finalized new trade agreement with South Korea.

69. Made a deal with the European Union to increase U.S. energy exports to Europe.  
70. Withdrew the U.S. from the job-killing TPP deal.

71. Secured $250 billion in new trade and investment deals in China and $12 billion in Vietnam.

72. O.K.’d up to $12 billion in aid for farmers affected by unfair trade retaliation.  
73. Has had over a dozen U.S. hostages freed, including those Obama could not get freed.

74. Trump signed the Music Modernization Act, the biggest change to copyright law in decades.

75. Trump secured Billions that will fund the building of a wall at our southern border.

76. The Trump Administration is promoting second-chance hiring to give former inmates the opportunity to live crime-free lives and find meaningful employment.

77. Trump’s DOJ and the Board Of Prisons launched a new “Ready to Work Initiative” to help connect employers directly with former prisoners.  
78. President Trump’s historic tax cut legislation included new Opportunity Zone Incentives to promote investment in low-income communities across the country.



79. 8,764 communities across the country have been designated as Opportunity Zones.

80. Opportunity Zones are expected to spur $100 billion in long-term private capital investment in economically distressed communities across the country.

81. Trump directed the Education Secretary to end Common Core.  
82. Trump signed the 9/11 Victims Compensation Fund into law.

83. Trump signed measure funding prevention programs for Veteran suicide.  
84. Companies have brought back over a TRILLION dollars from overseas because of the TCJA bill that Trump signed.

85. Manufacturing jobs are growing at the fastest rate in more than 30 years.

86. Stock Market has reached record highs.

87. Median household income has hit the highest level ever recorded.

88. African-American unemployment is at an all-time low.

89. Hispanic-American unemployment is at an all-time low.

90. Asian-American unemployment is at an all-time low.

91. Women’s unemployment rate is at a 65-year low.

92. Youth unemployment is at a 50-year low.

93. We have the lowest unemployment rate ever recorded.

94. The Pledge to America’s Workers has resulted in employers committing to train more than 4 million Americans.

95. 95 percent of U.S. manufacturers are optimistic about the future — the highest ever.



96. As a result of the Republican tax bill, small businesses will have the lowest top marginal tax rate in more than 80 years.  
97. Record number of regulations eliminated that hurt small businesses.

98. Signed welfare reform requiring able-bodied adults who don’t have children to work or look for work if they’re on welfare.  
99. Under Trump, the FDA approved more affordable generic drugs than ever before in history.

100. Reformed Medicare program to stop hospitals from overcharging low-income seniors on their drugs — saving seniors 100’s of millions of $$$ this year alone.  
101. Signed Right-To-Try legislation allowing terminally ill patients to try an experimental treatment that wasn’t allowed before.

102. Secured $6 billion in new funding to fight the opioid epidemic. ️️

103. Signed VA Choice Act and VA Accountability Act, expanded V.A. telehealth services, walk-in-clinics, and same-day urgent primary and mental health care.  
104. U.S. oil production recently reached an all-time high so we are less dependent on oil from the Middle East.

105. The U.S. is a net natural gas exporter for the first time since 1957.

106. NATO allies increased their defense spending because of his pressure campaign.

107. Withdrew the United States from the job-killing Paris Climate Accord in 2017 and that same year the U.S. still led the world by having the largest reduction in carbon emissions.  
108. Has his circuit court judge nominees being confirmed faster than any other new administration.



109. Had his Supreme Court Justice’s Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh confirmed.

110. Moved U.S. Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem.  
111. Agreed to a new trade deal with Mexico & Canada that will increase jobs here and $$$ coming in.

112. Reached a breakthrough agreement with the E.U. to increase U.S. exports.

113. Imposed tariffs on China in response to China’s forced technology transfer, intellectual property theft, and their chronically abusive trade practices, has agreed to a Part One trade deal with China.

114. Signed legislation to improve the National Suicide Hotline.  
115. Signed the most comprehensive childhood cancer legislation ever into law, which will advance childhood cancer research and improve treatments.

116. The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act signed into law by Trump doubled the maximum amount of the child tax credit available to parents and lifted the income limits so more people could claim it.

117. It also created a new tax credit for other dependents.

118. In 2018, President Trump signed into law a $2.4 billion funding increase for the Child Care and Development Fund, providing a total of $8.1 billion to states to fund child care for low-income families.

119. The Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit (CDCTC) signed into law by Trump provides a tax credit equal to 20-35% of child care expenses, $3,000 per child & $6,000 per family + Flexible Spending Accounts (F.S.A.s) allow you to set aside up to $5,000 in pre-tax $ to use for child care.

120. In 2019 President Donald Trump signed the Autism Collaboration, Accountability, Research, Education and Support Act (CARES) into law, which allocates $1.8 billion in funding over the next five years to help people with autism spectrum disorder and to help their families.  



121. In 2019 President Trump signed into law two funding packages providing nearly $19 million in new funding for Lupus specific research and education programs, as well an additional $41.7 billion in funding for the National Institutes of Health (NIH), the most Lupus funding EVER.


122. Another upcoming accomplishment to add: In the next week or two Trump will be signing the first major anti-robocall law in decades called the TRACED Act (Telephone Robocall Abuse Criminal Enforcement and Deterrence.) Once it’s the law, the TRACED Act will extend the period of time the FCC has to catch & punish those who intentionally break telemarketing restrictions. The bill also requires voice service providers to develop a framework to verify calls are legitimate before they reach your phone.
*


----------



## finicky (12 November 2020)

@Bob I didn't read all your diatribe but you don't need to adduce evidence when you know you're right. Why waste time? The white CIS patriarchal orange man is gone and the nazi scum no longer have their fuehrer.Now we can make up with the Chinese Communist Party under the strong and patriotic leadership of Joe and Kamala. America wiill heal under the gentle decent guidance of The Squad, Kamala, Nancy, Adam Schiff, Jerry Nadler and Chuck - Joe can get plenty of rest. The jack booted constabulary will stay of the streets or be shot and Antifa and BLM will light the way ahead to a fairer, more diverse anarcho community with equality of outcomes. Dreamers will be welcomed and  immigrants imbued with foreign cultures can flood across our borders without dehumanising racist documentation, their poor little children freed from cages, to invigorate the decayed cities.There are already lists of the scum who have opposed our rightful place in the white house.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (12 November 2020)

Gold has been trading in a narrow range USD $1860 to $1890 for the last 3 days after a significant drop during early Nov. from $1950. 

I can't see it going sideways for much longer. My bet would be up. 




gg


----------



## frugal.rock (12 November 2020)

Thanks gg.
Had suspected we were at a turning point, but, with what the market is currently doing, had thought golds run  may have hit a top. 
In relation to the banks, don't forget this country was built on credit.
Very colourful chart.


----------



## Bob (13 November 2020)

finicky said:


> @Bob I didn't read all your diatribe but you don't need to adduce evidence when you know you're right. Why waste time? The white CIS patriarchal orange man is gone and the nazi scum no longer have their fuehrer.Now we can make up with the Chinese Communist Party under the strong and patriotic leadership of Joe and Kamala. America wiill heal under the gentle decent guidance of The Squad, Kamala, Nancy, Adam Schiff, Jerry Nadler and Chuck - Joe can get plenty of rest. The jack booted constabulary will stay of the streets or be shot and Antifa and BLM will light the way ahead to a fairer, more diverse anarcho community with equality of outcomes. Dreamers will be welcomed and  immigrants imbued with foreign cultures can flood across our borders without dehumanising racist documentation, their poor little children freed from cages, to invigorate the decayed cities.There are already lists of the scum who have opposed our rightful place in the white house.





Good bye HK and Taiwan...................


----------



## againsthegrain (13 November 2020)

Bob said:


> Good bye HK and Taiwan...................
> 
> 
> View attachment 114554




Is it just me or the constant vaccine news seem like a perfect carrot to manipulate the dips in the market.  Luckily gold seems to be getting more resilient to it, slight green today.  I am only increasing my holdings here too many times in the past I have seen things unfold in front of me and sat on my hands.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (13 November 2020)

USD $1870 looks to be support for Gold as we head in to Sydney and Hong Kong trading this morning.




gg


----------



## wayneL (13 November 2020)

againsthegrain said:


> Is it just me or the constant vaccine news seem like a perfect carrot to manipulate the dips in the market.  Luckily gold seems to be getting more resilient to it, slight green today.  I am only increasing my holdings here too many times in the past I have seen things unfold in front of me and sat on my hands.



Yes indeed, that and Fed jawboning always seems to be rather conveniently timed.


----------



## Knobby22 (17 November 2020)

Bob said:


> Good bye HK and Taiwan...................
> 
> 
> View attachment 114554



Hong Kong happened in Trumps reign due to his weakness. Taiwan is lucky Biden won the election.


----------



## qldfrog (17 November 2020)

Rol....as is the west, going down smoothly into a sea of social justice, world outcome equity and ignorance masquerading as truth.
But now thanks governments, we have our saviour the fake vaccine...enlist, be saved..


----------



## Bill M (17 November 2020)

againsthegrain said:


> So I got my first bullion bar from ABC bullion.  I am curious how do people here check the Gold they buy for being genuine?
> 
> Buying from a reputable dealer with brand stamped should be a good guarantee but everything can be faked as some of the stories on the internet go around.
> 
> I was simply given a bullion bar in a pouch and a invoice,  is there something I should be asking or doing upon receipt in the future?



ABC are the refiners themselves. Generally when buying direct from the Perth Mint or ABC as in this case the product should be always right. I wouldn't worry too much about that and with the purchase invoice that holds a lot of weight when reselling so hang on to it. ABC will always buy back from you but it will be a bit below spot. The actual invoice comes in handy when trying to resell on Facebook or other Silver Stacker forums where you can get at least spot if not more if it is something special. The only times I worry about gold being fake is on the secondary market. I'll buy smaller pieces like 1/20 to 1/10 oz gold on those forums but only from well known members that have been on the site for a long time. For big 1oz gold bars/coins I go direct to the refiners or bullion shops.


----------



## againsthegrain (19 November 2020)

Bill M said:


> ABC are the refiners themselves. Generally when buying direct from the Perth Mint or ABC as in this case the product should be always right. I wouldn't worry too much about that and with the purchase invoice that holds a lot of weight when reselling so hang on to it. ABC will always buy back from you but it will be a bit below spot. The actual invoice comes in handy when trying to resell on Facebook or other Silver Stacker forums where you can get at least spot if not more if it is something special. The only times I worry about gold being fake is on the secondary market. I'll buy smaller pieces like 1/20 to 1/10 oz gold on those forums but only from well known members that have been on the site for a long time. For big 1oz gold bars/coins I go direct to the refiners or bullion shops.




Since I put up that post I have been to abc gold now about 5 times,  had a little chat with them. They showed me one of the bars I was buying on the xray and one of their scales which made me feel very solid about the product.  Since they check and test all the bullion they buy back I feel pretty safe now buying from them.
I don't think I will bother buying from secondary markets ever since I would always stress about titanium rods being inside vs the small $ discount. 

I made a few digital copies of my receipts since they are worth half the gold when it comes to selling and claiming cgt

Thanks for all the answers here gave me a push to start stacking


----------



## noirua (30 November 2020)

27 November 2020


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## Joules MM1 (30 November 2020)

sell gold

or STO paper $xauusd

enjoying the ride ......and you can too


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## peter2 (30 November 2020)

What?  You think there's more room on the down side? I think 1760 is about it.


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## Joules MM1 (30 November 2020)

peter2 said:


> What?  You think there's more room on the down side?




yes

the 200 day m/a broke, prior the cfd players were averaging 80-90% long in both retail and top clients (now 67% top and 73% retail clients), everyone seeing this as the buying opportunity

technically
the upside has seen a rare 1:1 ratio, has failed to hold the standard-fare floor provided by the peaks at post 2011 high,
did i mention the 200 day m/a broke...when silver breaks 21.57 in the front month contract it will be a confirmation signal

none of this means that gold is not still in a major bull leg and point of view is contextual, altho, be warned if your first instinct is to waffle on some theistic excuse to wear butchers gloves then that may be  the moment to recheck the comfortable buy

i get that this thread is mostly long-only thread, ardently defended, altho, like all things in an auction, the defensiveness is a head-scratch and as a once-protagonist of the "incontrivertible trend" has not posted for a while you should ask yourself, "who is doing all that selling that i think is a bargain" ?


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## frugal.rock (1 December 2020)

you should ask yourself, "who is doing all that selling that i think is a bargain" ?
[/QUOTE]
Is it the smart money? 
Are they rotating into crypto and buying banks?
Crypto recent pullback is over and now about to seemingly break the highs again. 
I am not seeing flight to safety behaviour currently.


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## againsthegrain (3 November 2021)

went to pick up a few ounces of bullion today,  there is a few gold dealers in the same building and I have to say there was 2 or 3 people queuing up in each place,  usually its pretty empty.  Most likely a coincidence,  coinciding with all the talk of interest rates going up sooner rather then later?


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## Garpal Gumnut (7 January 2022)

I must admit to being a lover of Japanese novels and short stories in translation. From Murakami to Higashino the breath of suspense and plot twists are extraordinary. 

Which brings me to crypto, which Japanese born, has yet to be revealed as the Tulip mania from The East. After the final plot twist, whether it be a virus or a self destruct piece of code. My primary school grandchildren's peers are probably working on it as I type.

And then there is gold. Beautiful gold, which has held its value for a mere 10,000 years through Empires and Tumult, earthquakes and global cooling. 

The 10 year chart shows good support/resistance at $US1620-$1790. I am about to add to my physical stores, for a rainy day. It is about $1790 atm which is a 10% stop loss if I am wrong, which few here at the hotel believe. 

The chart contains lotsa EW patterns btw for the interested. 




gg


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## Dona Ferentes (7 January 2022)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Which brings me to crypto, which Japanese born, has yet to be revealed as the Tulip mania from The East. After the final plot twist, whether it be a virus or a self destruct piece of code. My primary school grandchildren's peers are probably working on it as I type.
> 
> And then there is gold.



and maybe a coup or two might disrupt gold output and impact supply, but not like the vulnerability of _*da 'coin*_



> _The computing power of the global bitcoin network has dropped sharply as deadly political violence in Kazakhstan shut down the internet in a country with a fast-growing cryptocurrency mining industry.
> 
> Kazakhstan is the world’s second-largest centre for bitcoin mining after the United States, according to the Cambridge Centre for Alternative Finance, after major hub China clamped down on crypto mining activity last year. In August last year, the most recent data available, Kazakhstan accounted for 18 per cent of the global “*hashrate*” – crypto lingo for the amount of computing power being used by machines hooked up to the bitcoin network._


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## againsthegrain (7 January 2022)

Dona Ferentes said:


> and maybe a coup or two might disrupt gold output and impact supply, but not like the vulnerability of _*da 'coin*_




Mining also got banned in Kosovo because power grid is crapping out, however not a big player there


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## Garpal Gumnut (23 January 2022)

For those who prefer physical gold as I do, some hints on how and where to store it both at home and away. Not that Home and Away.

Also some tips on not insuring it and who and how many to tell where it is. 

Good digging all. 









						How to Store Gold at Home
					

Learn from our experts how to safely store gold jewelry, gold coins and other precious metals in your own home and protect your money against potential theft.




					goldsilver.com
				




gg


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## Sean K (23 January 2022)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> For those who prefer physical gold as I do, some hints on how and where to store it both at home and away. Not that Home and Away.
> 
> Also some tips on not insuring it and who and how many to tell where it is.
> 
> ...




I'm contemplating buying one of these for a Sunday walk around Bendigo with the Moodle.


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## Country Lad (23 January 2022)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Also some tips on not insuring it and who and how many to tell where it is.
> 
> Good digging all.
> 
> gg




Many years ago when my father fell ill he told me _"it is buried by the third stump on the eastern side"_.  He recovered and eventually spent it all.


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## frugal.rock (23 January 2022)

Apon his recovery, did you consider shifting it to the second stump?
Would've made a great April fools Day joke 😅


A property near me saw two brothers looking for their fathers buried gold coins after he died. 
One brother lived there, the other didn't. 
After some years of "not finding it",  the property was going up for sale so the brother who didn't live there hired a service locating company with ground penetrating radar and metal detectors. Nada, nothing of value found although a days search wasn't enough for the property size.
Would take a couple of months searching, gridding and digging every target to find it, imo.

At the time, there were suttle indications the brother who lived there had already found it...


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## Garpal Gumnut (23 January 2022)

frugal.rock said:


> Apon his recovery, did you consider shifting it to the second stump?
> Would've made a great April fools Day joke 😅
> 
> 
> ...



That is one element of Gold that I do like. It's anonymity and its ability to be found and lost and then found again by a different person. It can be bought and sold and also gifted. 

It can adorn a king or a monastery, be grasped by a Viking or a thieving beggar man. 

Gold has a vibe that other tradables don't.

It can make mad men out of sane. 

Boring old crypto just has trousers in ars*holes traders and criminals churning it out. It is too industrial for my liking, similar to the casino or pokies.

gg


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## grant7 (20 April 2022)

qldfrog said:


> About GOLD etf, i do favor the pmgold one as there is supposed to be a one for one gold to paper match and offered by perth mint..a relatively trusted institution
> GOLD and other etf are well known as having only a tenth at most of the paper gold they sell, they are basically fiat currency..



Hi Im new to gold (actually new to any stocks) but feeling lately time to buy Gold.  been buying some Gold ETFs on the ASX.
   Found this post and wondering on this comment re ETF's and gold backing...

The ETF site states -
"GOLD is backed by physically allocated gold bullion held by JPMorgan Chase Bank, N.A. (the Custodian) in London.  
Each physical bar is segregated, individually identified and allocated which means there is no credit risk. Investors can choose to redeem units for the physical holdings."

Doesnt this mean the 'paper gold' is backed one for one by real 'allocated' Gold. ?    

Thanks !
Grant


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## frugal.rock (21 July 2022)

Sean K said:


> I'm contemplating buying one of these for a Sunday walk around Bendigo with the Moodle.



Got bogged trying to get into the Whipstick Forest years ago..
VY commy and huge water filled 4wd ruts...what was I thinking? 😹

Was just having a look at the Perth Mint site, but it's down for IT maintenance... brilliant.
Can anyone tell me how long it takes for bullion coin prices to change there?


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