# Education in trading indices CFDs



## fallenangel22 (20 December 2008)

Hi,

I have just opened a demo account with ig and am educating myself to trade indices. Can anyone recommend any great books or resources that they have found useful?   https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif


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## tech/a (20 December 2008)

Trading an Index technically is like trading any chart.
Its a mattr of formulating a plan testing that its profitable and then trading it.

There are countless methods you could employ.
Learn how to trade a chart and you can trade most anything.


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## fallenangel22 (20 December 2008)

yes tech I have been using a few methods firstly was  using the macd on a line chart to identify very short frame trends simply buying or selling in and out-  not so good. secondly stepping back to identify the longer term trend using a 1 - 5min candle chart looking for classic trend reversal candles and entering  with a fairly wide stop of up to 15 pips (well thats a wide stop for me) that seemed to be a slightly more sucessful.  The only prob is there is no volume indicator on the charts to give that extra confirmation of future direction and I use volume to gain entry when day trading stocks to great sucess. what is the one indicator that you find useful when trading indices?


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## chops_a_must (20 December 2008)

tech/a said:


> Trading an Index technically is like trading any chart.
> Its a mattr of formulating a plan testing that its profitable and then trading it.
> 
> There are countless methods you could employ.
> Learn how to trade a chart and you can trade most anything.



Indexes perform quite differently to stocks though I find...


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## Wysiwyg (20 December 2008)

chops_a_must said:


> Indexes perform quite differently to stocks though I find...




Absolutely, hard to exact rhyme nor reason though generalities can be observed i.e. trend direction.


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## chops_a_must (20 December 2008)

Wysiwyg said:


> Absolutely, hard to exact rhyme nor reason though generalities can be observed i.e. trend direction.




It's just that you don't generally get the runaway extreme directional moves that you do in stocks.

You are better off going against these, whereas in stocks, there isn't as much value in it, you need to be going with it.


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## Wysiwyg (20 December 2008)

chops_a_must said:


> It's just that you don't generally get the runaway extreme directional moves that you do in stocks.





Sure, you think you`re sitting pretty on nice profit when suddenly there is a move in the opposite direction for some lame excuse like Ben Bernanke has spoken.


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## tech/a (20 December 2008)

Sure dont disagree.

Whats the index chart code? (Or a few).
Id be using VSA.
Short term certainly.
Long and short a bonus.


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## mazzatelli1000 (20 December 2008)

tech/a said:


> Learn how to trade a chart and you can trade most anything.




I think this was all tech was trying to say - learn how to read a chart

The specifics of the underlying can be learnt later - e.g. index, stock, commodity, bonds


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## MRC & Co (20 December 2008)

Don't try using VSA on an index like the SPI on 1-2 minute timeframes, completely pointless IMO.

Big volume = big buyer/seller, that's about all you need to know.


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## tech/a (20 December 2008)

MRC & Co said:


> Don't try using VSA on an index like the SPI on 1-2 minute timeframes, completely pointless IMO.




How can you make a statement like that.
You trade with VSA?
You actually understand it?



> Big volume = big buyer/seller, that's about all you need to know.




Depth is and can be misleading. 
Orders at market dont even show.
When the big players move they dont sit in depth.
You could make that statement about anything, stock, index, future.
TH's way of trading isnt the only way to turn a profit on a chart short term.

To make a point.
Interested in your VSA analysis on this chart.
from the last BAR.
Say the analysis for the next 3 bars and perhaps you can tell me why the next 3.
That BIG Volume on the second last bar.
buyers or sellers?
Its an index chart


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## MRC & Co (20 December 2008)

tech/a said:


> How can you make a statement like that.
> You trade with VSA?
> You actually understand it?
> 
> ...




I used to use VSA on stocks (obviously not to the extent you do), not tradeguider to the tee, but my own interpretation.  Because I don't believe you can read into every bar or even close too it, nor see it on every chart, only in some instances when there is something of note happening.  Don't use it at all at the moment, as I only trade SPI.  On the chart, I would need more background, but looks weak to me.  High vol after falling out of a range, but a low close.  Bit of a pause before the selling continues, assuming the chart was in a downtrend beforehand?  And I obviously can't tell you if it is selling or buying, as it is BOTH equally, only if the bears or bulls are taking control of the price action.

I didn't say VSA won't work on an index, because it will, I said on the SPI.  A big trader can simply be covering, which won't mean a thing and you will read something into it, as I did when I started trading the SPI.  It only got me into trouble.

Depth is not misleading, it is what it is.  And you can clearly see who is hitting market, what are you talking about?  The spread is crossed.  Simple as that.  And yes, some big players DO sit in depth, watch the SPI rally Friday afternoon and you can see a clear buyer sitting in there, chasing it up.  Not even pulling bids and trying to give the illusion he has gone and getting better fills.  You also see them come in to defend levels and this is where you get strong support or resistance levels.  I think a week back, it bounced off the same level about 3 times in 3 days and set the low for the day.  

There is no TH way of trading, I am sure I take completely different set-ups to him many times a day.  We probably exchange contracts on the other side half the time!


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## MRC & Co (20 December 2008)

MRC & Co said:


> I didn't say VSA won't work on an index, because it will, I said on the SPI.  A big trader can simply be covering, which won't mean a thing and you will read something into it, as I did when I started trading the SPI.  It only got me into trouble.




I'll give an example.

A guy hits a 60 lot in the ask, betting price will move up in the next couple minutes, as it does, he has resting orders on the asks and scales out.  You will get a spike in volume on that 1 minute candle when he crosses the spread and hits the ask, does it mean price will go up?  Is he going to do any more buying?  No, doesn't mean a thing.  Only that that particular trader, is betting on price going up so he can scale out.

Why is he hitting that 60 lot?  Perhaps because he thinks the big 40 lot behind is a spoof and will disappear, traders will then attack the ask and push price up, forcing the big spoofer of the initial 60 lot which got clipped, which was infront of the 40 lot, to cover.  He will then cover into this.  Sometimes, once the 60 lot on the ask is hit, algo bots will pull the bids, as it was their bids and spoof on the ask you see, to beach the trader who hit the 60 lot and try get him covering.  Yes, this kind of thing DOES happen.  How will you read that real-time with VSA?  

Now that is an order book pattern you may watch out for.  How are you going to trade that?  Be the first to attack the ask once they start retreating after the initial large spoof was hit.  Just hope the algos don't get you!


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## tech/a (20 December 2008)

Perhaps this VSA video will be of help.
NO Market depth mentioned.

http://www.youtube.com/user/TradeGuider


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## chops_a_must (20 December 2008)

Tech... I think if you are going to use VSA on indices, it is probably much better value using tick charts, not minute bars.

Because with that chart there, you can't tell if stops are being chewed just below support, and will result in an eventual sharp snap back, or if it is determined selling though the support, and may continue to lead to a runaway breakdown.

With tick charts, I reckon you could eventually tell the difference between the two.


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## MRC & Co (20 December 2008)

tech/a said:


> Perhaps this VSA video will be of help.
> NO Market depth mentioned.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/user/TradeGuider




But that doesn't answer my SPI questions, which is what this entire thing was in relation too!?

And what point were you trying to make by the VSA exercise?

I'm far from saying you need market depth to trade SPI intraday, but it can confuse VSA on this instrument, THAT was my point.


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## tech/a (20 December 2008)

OK

I'll have to have a look at VSA on the SPI.
Frankly without doing that I cant speak from experience.
I'll have a look make some observations and get back to this.


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## MRC & Co (20 December 2008)

Ok.

VSA was my favourite tool for stocks, but unfortunately, I couldn't make it work consistently (enough to have an edge trading the SPI), and these above were some of my conclusions.

I'm sure you can find examples of it working, but trading it live based on VSA, with a consistent edge, would be an extremelly hard ask IMHO. 

If someone is simply hitting market with big/or growing volume and moving it in that direction, then you probably have something which will remain for at least a few more minutes (with many flicks and squeezes within each candle, that you may not see once they are printed, along the way).  Some of these moves were clearly evident a few weeks back, when most days we would rally and then fall off, or just fall off from the beginning, form a base, and rally with some decent or growing volume into the close.

Cheers


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## skyQuake (21 December 2008)

Think that he meant that theres no Volume data on IG charts.

Anyways, I've traded with IG and would not recommend scalping when you start off. Firstly the 2 tick spread will kill most scalpers, as will the slow order execution. Trying to catch bigger trends would be a better alternative. eg. a 15 min uptrend after lunch session.


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## wayneL (21 December 2008)

I'm not au fait with VSA, but I'd confirm that trading indices is different to trading stocks. Maybe VSA could be used on daily bars, but risk reward is not favourable swing trading indices... and certainly not as good R/R as swing trading stocks.

IMO, for indices, go intraday or trade options volatility.


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## MRC & Co (21 December 2008)

wayneL said:


> or trade options volatility.




ha ha, and I bet you've been doing a bit of that lately eh Wayne!


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## Wysiwyg (21 December 2008)

wayneL said:


> I'm not au fait with VSA, but I'd confirm that trading indices is different to trading stocks.




Hi, 
Would you ever go back or do you trade stocks occasionally?


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## Trembling Hand (21 December 2008)

tech/a said:


> Depth is and can be misleading.
> Orders at market dont even show.
> When the big players move they dont sit in depth.
> You could make that statement about anything, stock, index, future.
> TH's way of trading isnt the only way to turn a profit on a chart short term.






tech/a said:


> OK
> 
> I'll have to have a look at VSA on the SPI.
> Frankly without doing that I cant speak from experience.




Just LOL. Absolute classic in arrogance.

Tech who the hell ever said that was the info to be taken from the DOM??


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## tech/a (21 December 2008)

(1) From what Ive read of your method, you attempt to pick flow of demand or supply from DOM---this isnt correct?

(2) I havent traded the SPI using VSA.

If commenting on what Ive seen of your trading is seen by you as arrogance then so be it.


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## Trembling Hand (21 December 2008)

tech/a said:


> (1) From what Ive read of your method, you attempt to pick flow of demand or supply from DOM---this isnt correct?
> 
> (2) I havent traded the SPI using VSA.
> 
> If commenting on what Ive seen of your trading is seen by you as arrogance then so be it.




You bang on about VSA being the tool for people who "get" the market & that no one gets it like you. Yet that info you are trying to get from VSA & Charts flows *from* the DOM *before *the bar is finish being printed. + a lot of info you don't get from a chart you see in a DOM. Like desperate trapped big players putting in orders outside of the spread to try and defend positions then pull them as soon as _you_ hit them.

Then you see fit to discredit other peoples methods without having a friggin clue about their methods. From my understanding you have not actually made an index trade nor any type of Future trade or even spent any time at how the real money print the bars in a DOM screen. But as I would not like to jump to any false conclusions without actually knowing I will ask. How much of your knowledge comes from trading indexes again?? Only asking because I would hate to be arrogant to assume something I have no idea about 

FYI - DOM readers don't give a toss about what is sitting in the book.


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## Cartman (21 December 2008)

chops_a_must said:


> Tech... I think if you are going to use VSA on indices, it is probably much better value using tick charts, not minute bars.





Well said Chopsui; i got into trouble encroaching on the Elliot wave thread offering my SIMPLE SIMON method of just trading 3 waves ------- nobody gave it much creedence ---fair enuff really i didnt explain it very well ; 

when i mentioned i trade off 1 second charts,  Tech fobbed me off in no uncertain terms; ( i made it clear i was talking about mainly Fx trading not stocks)

Tech,
 throwing  up a daily chart wanting us to predict where the next cupla bars are gonna go with an index based on vsa is like saying  “im gona drive down Parramatta road and not stop at the third set of lights even though I cant see the lights yet -------- index  FX traders make decisions after they just pass a set of lights and they can see the next set of lights up ahead ; and those lights can be goddamn close together sometimes  ------ seriously try shorter time frames ; different world altogether 

disclaimer;  im only a newbie by some standards around here and happy to admit it so take my crap with a grain of mustard but ive done a sh*tload of screen time in REAL time while trading my underfinanced trading account (which for the record has always been positive  

ps i know if i make a sh*t comment TH and Mirc etc will be down on me like a ton of bricks and im happy with that cause thats how i learn whats useful


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## tech/a (21 December 2008)

Where the hell do you get off.

*discredit-*-where have I done that!! Question you bet.

Your not the first who trade Indexes and Futures who come across as the ducks guts.
I'll call it as I see--like or lump it.

Pull your head in.

Talk about arrogant.


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## tech/a (21 December 2008)

> Tech fobbed me off in no uncertain terms; ( i made it clear i was talking about mainly Fx trading not stocks)




My comment was "This is where I lose interest"
I did and still have.
*I* thats *I* have no interest in 1 second charts.

Trade how you like.

Bring it on guys your like big girls blouses.
Somebody questions me---shock horror!


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## chops_a_must (21 December 2008)

tech/a said:


> Where the hell do you get off.
> 
> *discredit-*-where have I done that!! Question you bet.
> 
> ...




Lol.

The hypocrisy knows no bounds...


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## MRC & Co (21 December 2008)

Wysiwyg said:


> Hi,
> Would you ever go back or do you trade stocks occasionally?




I think Wayne trades every instrument under the sun!


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## Cartman (21 December 2008)

I get the feeling there could be more deleted posts around here shortly 

Tech i dont want to turn this into a slanging match; youre a far more experienced and successful trader than i am and im happy to admit that but since we arent on the Elliot thread where in hindsight i shoulda stayed away from;  why dont you trade or like 1 second charts;  i think they would actually suit you and i mean that.


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## MRC & Co (21 December 2008)

Cartman said:


> ps i know if i make a sh*t comment TH and Mirc etc will be down on me like a ton of bricks and im happy with that cause thats how i learn whats useful




ha ha, that's what I like around here.  

Believe it or not, a lot of DOM traders don't use much else but the DOM and an occassional glance at a 5 minute chart.  Not my style though.........yet.


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## tech/a (21 December 2008)

Cartman.

I have better things do do with life than sit in front of a screen trading by the second. I dont have to.
There are a lot of young people here who are easily impressed with the gymnastics of those who trade 100 or so trades a day.

Not for me.
Having a look at T/Hs scatter chart is enough to put me off.
If thats the way you guys trade and enjoy it then hell why do I care.

But there maybe some here who like me dont want to be glued to 3 screens for hrs punching out buy sell orders like a boxer on ice.


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## Trembling Hand (21 December 2008)

tech/a said:


> *discredit-*-where have I done that!! Question you bet.



 See below then I will rest my case.



tech/a said:


> There are a lot of young people here who are easily impressed with the gymnastics of those who trade 100 or so trades a day.
> 
> Not for me.
> Having a look at T/Hs scatter chart is enough to put me off.
> ...



 You complete Ar$e. SO I'm some punch drunk boxer on ICE. Stick it Tech you are THE trading GOD 



tech/a said:


> Having watched as much depth as anyone it soon becomes obvious that those who want to sell and those who wish to buy do so at market.
> Many have looked and claim an edge trading depth.
> Frankly I just cant see it and T/H your very slight expectancy seems to vindicate my observations.



 Yeah Tech no effort at trying to discredit here although its clear you have no idea what I do. NONE!!


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## MRC & Co (21 December 2008)

tech/a said:


> There are a lot of young people here who are easily impressed with the gymnastics of those who trade 100 or so trades a day.




Or impressed with the 7 figures in a DAY that is possible, not to mention, the consistency without huge risk.

To me, watching the markets unfold second by second and supply and demand movements changing, is the pure essence of this entire trading gig.


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## mazzatelli1000 (21 December 2008)

fallenangel22 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have just opened a demo account with ig and am educating myself to trade indices. Can anyone recommend any great books or resources that they have found useful?   https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif




Have a read of John Carter "Trade the Markets" to get an IDEA of some techniques and approaches he used for trading indices. 

NB: This is not a bible, and don't assume his methods automatically work and apply them. 

What I found along with additional reserach and testing is using pivot levels are useful for trading indices, but that is what works for me and same goes to you - you have to find patterns/setups unique to you.

I am not sure what your knowledge base - so not sure whether to recommend TA 101 books etc.
Perhaps some more feedback will be helpful


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## tech/a (21 December 2008)

> Having watched as much depth as anyone it soon becomes obvious that those who want to sell and those who wish to buy do so at market.
> Many have looked and claim an edge trading depth.
> Frankly I just cant see it and T/H your very slight expectancy seems to vindicate my* observations*.




This is an observation and I still hold it. Discredit?

Can you just point me to the thread where I placed this?
Thanks.

*MRC.*
$1,000,000/ day or more.
Seriously impressive.

And consistently.
Get a grip that would be headlines in every investment mag in the world.
Williams made it doing it once.
Now your all George Soros! Or going to be.


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## mazzatelli1000 (21 December 2008)

MRC & Co said:


> Or impressed with the 7 figures in a DAY that is possible, not to mention, the consistency without huge risk.
> 
> To me, watching the markets unfold second by second and supply and demand movements changing, is the pure essence of this entire trading gig.




It sounds like you have definitely found your style!!!

Good stuff


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## MRC & Co (21 December 2008)

tech/a said:


> *MRC.*
> $1,000,000/ day or more.
> Seriously impressive.
> 
> ...




Did I say make 7 figures consistently?  I said it is possible to make 7 figures in a day, not consistently, infact, make that 8 figures in a DAY, and you can consistently be green also with such a large number of trades per day. 

I don't think I will ever get to that level, but it's possible and inspiring.

Headlines in every investment mag in the world?  LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL. These guys keep a low profile and are from Europe, trading out here for a while.  You will never read about them in mags, except on the top 30 in the world lists!  

Mazza, I'm not quite NEAR that level yet.  ha ha.  Just pointing out why guys are trying to learn intraday from the DOM.  It's not just 'gymnastics'.  It's consistency, potential for huge profits using such large leverage, and you are always watching positions and mainly, cutting them quick, so you minimise risk.


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## Cartman (21 December 2008)

tech/a said:


> Cartman.
> 
> I have better things do do with life than sit in front of a screen trading by the second. I dont have to.




Fair enuff  if u dont to ----  that tells me you have a real job which makes serious amounts of money  so well done ----- 
Y do you trade at all then?




tech/a said:


> Cartman.
> 
> There are a lot of young people here who are easily impressed with the gymnastics of those who trade 100 or so trades a day.
> 
> Not for me.




Dont have to be young to be impressed by gymnastics!!  Thats a bit unfair on the younungs 



tech/a said:


> Cartman.
> 
> But there maybe some here who like me dont want to be glued to 3 screens for hrs punching out buy sell orders like a boxer on ice.




doesnt have to be hours unless u want it to be ---- minutes sometimes !!

that is y i thought you might actually like the concept of short term trading ---setup/enter trade/profit (maybe /out/ back to real job


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## chops_a_must (21 December 2008)

tech/a said:


> Cartman.
> 
> I have better things do do with life than sit in front of a screen trading by the second. I dont have to.
> There are a lot of young people here who are easily impressed with the gymnastics of those who trade 100 or so trades a day.
> ...



Who's to say you can't use micro time frames to trade a few times in a day, for a limited time a day?

Have a look a Nizar's blog. It's more than enough to turn me off what you have espoused on here for a long time. Selective vision is a wonderful thing.


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## Trembling Hand (21 December 2008)

Here tech, You dished out on my method with this comment 

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=343999&postcount=40

1 day before I turned $1000 into $15,000. Just another day tech.



tech/a said:


> This is an observation and I still hold it. Discredit?
> 
> Can you just point me to the thread where I placed this?
> Thanks.
> ...




Tech MR C sits in a room of traders taking these kind of figures daily. That's my point you have no idea what a scalper/intraday trader does or what is achievable. NONE. yet you see fit to dump on it whenever it raises its head. That says a lot about the author :

I know nothing about idiot wave so I don't comment. For me to pass judgement on something I have no idea about would seem arrogant. Wouldn't you say??


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## Cartman (21 December 2008)

Trembling Hand said:


> I know nothing about idiot wave so I don't comment.




I double dog dare you to go on the Elliott W thread and call it that!!

make that triple dog --- hell id go for an octagonal dog on that one!!


pps make that an octagonal HORSE --- that is a BIG statement !!


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## MRC & Co (21 December 2008)

Trembling Hand said:


> Tech MR C sits in a room of traders taking these kind of figures daily.




ha ha, well we do dream!  

Only the huge guys who are really aggressive could do it, but it does get done.

Unfortunately, most Aussie guys, trade Aussie markets as their primary market, not really the liquidity 

But could be done on the HSI I reckon in our timeframe.


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## tech/a (21 December 2008)

Cartman said:


> Y do you trade at all then?




Part of my overall investment strategy.



> Dont have to be young to be impressed by gymnastics!!  Thats a bit unfair on the younungs




True but more prevelent. 



> doesnt have to be hours unless u want it to be ---- minutes sometimes !!




True again and have done so myself.



> that is y i thought you might actually like the concept of short term trading ---setup/enter trade/profit (maybe /out/ back to real job




I trade short term and day trade but not tick by tick.



> Here tech, You dished out on my method with this comment




Seriously you call that dishing out.



> That's my point you have no idea what a scalper/intraday trader does or what is achievable. NONE. yet you see fit to dump on it whenever it raises its head.




Of course you can achieve good figures. But thats not how I wish to trade.
I personally dont want a scatter chart that looks like yours.
Sure you'll get outlier moves.and turn $1000 to $15,000. Your not the only trader to have these.

I dont want to do 60-80 trades a day for a few $100 as shown in your thread. yeh yeh I know you do it everyday and its $1000s.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12683&highlight=scalping+system

I'm not "Dumping on your method"
I'm saying its NOT FOR ME. Probably not for many others who dont comment due to the risk of a flaming!
I dont wish to trade this way even if 100s of people are making $1,000,000 a day.
Why---because of the information which you have offered up.
Just as you dont wish to trade the way I do.

Which incidently you have absolutely no idea of.
Yet from what you know its doesnt suit you.
Ok I'm not going to have a hissy. Your not the only trader to turn a profit.


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## Cartman (21 December 2008)

tech/a said:


> Part of my overall investment strategy.




Fair enuff



tech/a said:


> True but more prevelent.
> 
> 
> 
> True again and have done so myself.




Probably true.

Fair enuff.



tech/a said:


> I trade short term and day trade but not tick by tick.




i dont trade tick by tick either ( not that good yet) but 1 second charts give the clearest picture of cycles for v. short term trading for me at this stage ---- (FX) ------------ 

sweeping all the crap aside i think the slight strutting of egos as per this thread is actually healthy ---- so lets keep arguing


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## MRC & Co (21 December 2008)

Cartman said:


> sweeping all the crap aside i think the slight strutting of egos as per this thread is actually healthy ---- so lets keep arguing




ha ha ha.

I don't even know why this all begun.  I made a comment about not using VSA on the SPI and tech responded, only to admit he didn't trade it so wouldn't know anyways.  ha ha ha.  

Maybe his use of VSA would be better than mine.

Quite a funny thread.


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## wayneL (22 December 2008)

And we never did find out who can p!ss the furthest.


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## Naked shorts (22 December 2008)

Cartman said:


> i dont trade tick by tick either ( not that good yet) but 1 second charts give the clearest picture of cycles for v. short term trading for me at this stage ---- (FX) ------------
> 
> sweeping all the crap aside i think the slight strutting of egos as per this thread is actually healthy ---- so lets keep arguing




When I first started, I used 1 second line chart. Using 1min candle charts now.


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## Trembling Hand (22 December 2008)

chops_a_must said:


> Indexes perform quite differently to stocks though I find...






chops_a_must said:


> It's just that you don't generally get the runaway extreme directional moves that you do in stocks.
> 
> You are better off going against these, whereas in stocks, there isn't as much value in it, you need to be going with it.




In all the crap on this thread this IMLittleHO is the best bit of advice.


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## tech/a (22 December 2008)

Trembling Hand said:


> In all the crap on this thread this IMLittleHO is the best bit of advice.





Have no arguement with both snippets.
You get very good moves in Indexes given the volatility around at the moment.

With the SPI being so thin why not trade other more liquid indexes.
Yes I know Trading time differences can be a problem.
I know you and others trade the HSI,which I'm told is on steriods.
The DAX and the NASDAQ seem popular as do Currency Pairs.

You'll be glad to know I wont be around today--Xmas shopping.


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## MRC & Co (22 December 2008)

Trouble with that Tech, is each index, is a completely different ballgame!  

Can take months to years to master just one of them, let alone swapping between them.  

Most have a main market, and once they can consistently take money out of that, they will slowly learn to master a new market.  

Think TH is upto his 3rd, I still haven't mastered my first, though I think/hope, I'm well on my way


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## peter2 (22 December 2008)

Come on. It's not rocket science or brain surgery. You just buy when you think it is going up and sell when you think it is going down.


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## Cartman (22 December 2008)

peter2 said:


> Come on. It's not rocket science or brain surgery. You just buy when you think it is going up and sell when you think it is going down.




Love that Emu Pete !!!

Funny thing is that most people should actually sell when they think its going up and buy when they think its going down ---- and theyd probably be a lot better off    but i get your point


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