# Dump Trump



## bigdog (26 October 2018)

https://www.theage.com.au/business/...le-is-bad-news-for-trump-20181025-p50bu2.html

*Why Wall Street's tumble is bad news for Trump*
*By Damian Paletta and Danielle Paquette*
25 October 2018 — 11:09am

US stock markets fell sharply Wednesday, erasing all gains for the year and muddying one of President Donald Trump's favourite talking points two weeks before the midterm elections.

The technology-heavy Nasdaq fell 4.4 per cent Wednesday, its worst one-day drop since the financial crisis. The index has slid more than 12 per cent since the end of August. The Standard & Poor's 500-stock index, which tracks a broader group of US companies, has lost $US2 trillion ($2.8 trillion) in value since late September, down 9 per cent. The Dow Jones industrial average, meanwhile, lost 608 points Wednesday and is down 8.3 per cent in the past three weeks.

The financial swoon threatens to undermine a market rise for which Trump has frequently claimed credit and to highlight controversial aspects of Trump's agenda, including tariffs many companies are blaming for their struggles and a tax cut that polls suggest the public views as inadequately helpful for the middle class.

Trump has increasingly looked to shift focus away from economic indicators he once touted and toward immigration and other issues - and assign blame elsewhere for any economic setbacks.

He has pummelled the Federal Reserve, alleging higher interest rates pose the biggest risk to growth - even musing he might have made a mistake when he nominated Jerome Powell as the nation's top central banker less than a year ago. It is unusual for a president to attack the central bank - the Fed aims to maintain independence from the White House to avoid politics from tainting its economic decisions.

Trump has also promised a 10 per cent middle-class tax cut, a proposal that caught his aides by surprise and that lawmakers said was exceedingly unlikely in the near future.

In recent days, Trump has suggested he could mobilise the military to protect the southern border from a caravan of migrants, But he has said little about the recent stock-market movement.

"The president is very good at manipulating the narrative and getting people - either through traditional media or social media - to focus on what he wants them to focus on," said Brian Gardner, managing director at Keefe, Bruyette & Woods, an investment bank.

Trump's focus on immigration and his surprise proposal for a middle-class tax cut come as the strong economy exhibits signs of strain.

Beyond the slumping market, rates on 30-year mortgages are climbing, with many loans now eclipsing 5 per cent. Higher interest rates can limit borrowing, slowing home sales and the economy. And a range of businesses - including firms that Trump has praised, such as Harley-Davidson and United Technologies - is warning that the White House's trade strategy could cost them millions of dollars in lost revenue.

Forty-eight S&P 500 companies mentioned "tariffs" during calls with analysts in recent days, many warning that they threaten to cause a drag on the economy.

Trump has dismissed complaints from chief executives about the White House's trade policy, telling the Wall Street Journal that overpaid executives will not take responsibility for their own bad decisions.

"I have created such an incredible economy," Trump said in Montana last week. "I have created so many jobs."

Trump said repeatedly during the summer that the United States was experiencing the greatest economy in its history, largely citing the low unemployment rate. And Tuesday, in an interview with the Wall Street Journal, he falsely denied imposing any tariffs on imports, even though he has implemented numerous tariffs against a range of countries this year.

His comments to the Journal directly contradict his Twitter post from a few hours earlier, in which he said the tariffs he had launched were bringing billions of dollars into the government's coffers. Trump has mischaracterised the way tariffs work, suggesting they are paid by other countries rather than by US companies that import the products - often passing those costs to US consumers.

White House officials have denied that Trump's recent behavior is driven by concerns about a weakening economy, saying the new tax plan, despite its surprise rollout, is meant to build on last year's tax law and help the middle class. And a number of senior officials have said the fundamentals of the economy remain strong, and the White House has an upbeat outlook for next year.

"Our job is to focus on what the economic numbers say, and the numbers are very solid right now," Kevin Hassett, chairman of the White House Council of Economic Advisers, said in an interview. "If your policies have produced the numbers we are observing, then you shouldn't duck."

Douglas Holtz-Eakin, a Republican economist, said the new tax-cut announcement struck many as an act of knee-jerk desperation.

"I don't think it helps to have the president invent a tax cut," he said. "That looks panicky. That hurts the larger effort. That wasn't the White House. That was him."

Job growth during Trump's presidency is roughly comparable to the last four years of the Obama administration, though the jobless rate is lower and economic growth has picked up. Economists are mixed on whether this is sustainable, with some cautioning the gains from tax cuts and higher federal spending are temporary.

"It's easy to say [Trump is] trying to set the Fed up for the fall here, but a lot of people were warning that the president was taking a risk and Republicans were taking a risk by putting forward a bunch of fiscal stimulus at this point the business cycle," said James Pethokoukis, a policy analyst at the American Enterprise Institute.

New-home sales sank for the fourth straight month in September, reflecting the impact of mortgage rates that now top 5 per cent for many borrowers.

Sales of new single-family homes last month fell 5.5 per cent from the previous month, to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 553,000, according to a government report. September's sales volume was more than 13 per cent lower than the same month one year earlier, and figures for June, July and August were also revised down.

Though the strong labour market is likely to support demand, some economists are beginning to worry about collateral damage from a housing downturn.

"The economy cannot grow at a sustainable 3 per cent pace for long if new-home sales continue to tumble," warned economist Chris Rupkey of MUFG Union Bank.

Many executives had hoped trade fights with China and other countries would be resolved swiftly, but it appears a number of disagreements will drag into at least next year.

The $US260 billion in tariffs Trump unleashed on Beijing took effect in this year's third quarter, covering roughly half of what the United States buys from China.

American companies have warned for months that Trump's trade war with China and other nations could wrench their bottom lines, and now they are quantifying that damage in dour earnings reports.

Ford recently reported levies on metals will shave $US1 billion off the automaker's profits, while consumer-goods giant Honeywell said it expects to absorb "hundred of millions of dollars" in new duty-related costs.

Minnesota manufacturer 3M projected a loss next year of $US100 million, blaming "tariff head winds." Caterpillar shares took the sharpest dive in seven years after the tractor maker said the commercial battle between the world's two largest economies was driving up the price of steel.

Walmart cautioned that prices could swell because a third of the products on its shelves arrive from outside the United States - and many are labeled "Made in China."

United Technologies, which once lauded Trump for saving its Carrier subsidiary's Indianapolis furnace factory, has changed its public stance on the president's economic moves, saying his flurry of levies will sting to the tune of $US200 million.

And Harley-Davidson said this week the duties will zap $US20 million out of its wallet this year and that retaliatory tariffs from the European Union could deal an additional $US45 million blow.

More than a third of the 110 S&P 500 companies that have shared third-quarter earnings since Tuesday have discussed the impact of higher border taxes during their conference calls with analysts, according to the investor research group FactSet.

Some companies have appealed directly to the administration, urging Trump to lower the trade barriers before the burden falls on American shoppers.

"As the largest retailer in the United States and a major buyer of US manufactured goods, we are very concerned about the impacts these tariffs would have on our business, our customers, our suppliers and the US economy as a whole," Walmart wrote in a late-September letter to US Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer.

Several economic factors could converge in the coming weeks to put more pressure on growth, including a decision from Powell about whether to again raise a key borrowing rate in December and an expected fight over federal spending levels. The results of those could give investors and households a new perspective on Trump's stewardship of an economy that looks much different than it did one year ago.

Offering one of the last snapshots of the economy before the midterm elections, the government is scheduled to release economic data Friday that measures how much the economy grew from July through September. Analysts diverge strongly on how strong or weak the report will be.

*The Washington Post*


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## Ann (26 October 2018)

Way back in the 90's I bought a book called "Secrets for Profiting in Bull and Bear Markets" by Stan Weinstein. It was the first charting book I had ever read and was transfixed by his charts. I still own it along with a mass of other charting books since purchased. Weinstein had a chart showing the "Four-Year Presidential Cycle" from 1886 until 1983. The graph shows the market rising well in the election year then the following year it falls and continues to fall into the first half of the third year and then it begins to rise again and continues to rise a little more until it levels off a bit.

......and now I just googled and found the very chart of which I was speaking. YAY! Let the chart speak for itself.

https://stock2own.wordpress.com/2012/01/25/the-four-year-presidential-cycle/


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## SirRumpole (26 October 2018)

Ann said:


> Way back in the 90's I bought a book called "Secrets for Profiting in Bull and Bear Markets" by Stan Weinstein. It was the first charting book I had ever read and was transfixed by his charts. I still own it along with a mass of other charting books since purchased. Weinstein had a chart showing the "Four-Year Presidential Cycle" from 1886 until 1983. The graph shows the market rising well in the election year then the following year it falls and continues to fall into the first half of the third year and then it begins to rise again and continues to rise a little more until it levels off a bit.
> 
> ......and now I just googled and found the very chart of which I was speaking. YAY! Let the chart speak for itself.
> 
> https://stock2own.wordpress.com/2012/01/25/the-four-year-presidential-cycle/




Shows the impact of psychology.

Everyone thinks a new pres will make change and work miracles then they find out he can't and late in his term people are hoping a new pres will work miracles ....


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## Ann (26 October 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Shows the impact of psychology.
> 
> Everyone thinks a new pres will make change and work miracles then they find out he can't and late in his term people are hoping a new pres will work miracles ....




You may be right SR, it could just come down to this simple bit of psychology.


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## bigdog (11 January 2019)

Instead of being restrained by the system, Donald Trump is allowing his inner monster to prevail.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-...er-tantrum-from-disaster-20190110-p50qka.html

*The Ineffable Hulk, Trump is always one temper tantrum from disaster*
..
You have to hand it to Donald Trump. He has remarkable verbal agility, even if he seems to combine it with functional illiteracy. For several years President Trump has dismissed all criticism as "fake news", a catchy phrase that has undermined the free press in America and has now been adopted by dictators around the world.

Last month he riffed on that reference, tweeting about the "Fake News Universe" in which CNN and others dwell. The universe in which Trump himself seems to dwell is not the Fake News Universe, but the Marvel Cinematic Universe. It is a mad world of extreme danger, ridiculous plot twists and ludicrous characters. And of all the Marvel characters, The Donald is especially reminiscent of The Hulk.

The Hulk is the destructive green alter ego of Bruce Banner, a mild-mannered nuclear scientist. When Bruce Banner gets angry, he transforms into a super-sized raging monster. No one is accusing Trump of being a nuclear scientist. However, before he took office many believed his Hulk-like characteristics could be controlled.

A senior Australian official told me after Trump’s election that the American system would "wrap its arms around him" and normalise him. Appointees would run the country. It is not working out that way. The Hulk cannot be tamed.

Certainly, there have been instances where Trump looks like a conventional president, for example when he ordered air strikes against the al-Shayrat airfield in April 2017, in response to Syria’s use of chemical weapons. Sometimes he can string together a few weeks of appearing normal.

But then, usually at a moment of stress or anger, Trump snaps and transforms into The Hulk. He veers from his talking points and says and does awful things. Recall his discreditable response, only a short time after the al-Shayrat air strikes, to the murder of a young woman in Charlottesville by white supremacists.

On foreign policy, The Hulk is dominating Bruce Banner. Trump’s international instincts are shockingly unorthodox: he is partial to isolationism, allergic to free trade, sceptical of alliances and attracted to strongmen. Repeatedly his presidential garb has split open at the seams to reveal his true character.

He junked the Iran nuclear deal and pulled out of the Paris climate accord. He dissed the collective security guarantee of the NATO treaty. He withdrew from the Trans-Pacific Partnership and levied tariffs on hundreds of billions of dollars of Chinese imports. He dubbed himself "Tariff Man", which sounds like a particularly lame character in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

And he pandered to Russia’s President Vladimir Putin and emboldened an international league of strongmen, including the Philippines’ Rodrigo Duterte, Hungary’s Viktor Orban, Italy’s Matteo Salvini and Saudi Arabia’s Mohammed bin Salman.

The Hulk has not completely driven America’s behaviour in the world, of course. The Trump influence on US foreign policy has been checked by opposition from within his administration. Agents of the Deep State – a little like Marvel's law-enforcing agents from S.H.I.E.L.D. – have prevented the President from doing irreparable damage to America’s foreign relationships. However, these agents have progressively left the administration. The last two – defence secretary Jim Mattis and chief of staff John Kelly – are now gone.

As the constraints fall away, we will increasingly be left with the rage-fuelled behaviour of the Big Green Stupid. The stinging defeat in the November 2018 mid-term elections will not help. Given the likelihood of gridlock in Washington, the President may well get Trumpier in his foreign policy – or, if you like, Hulkier – because he has more elbow room on the world scene.

In other words, we may see even more of The Hulk in the future. Certainly, photos from the White House reveal that the President is bulking up.

Like all comic book characters, of course, The Hulk has a weakness. He is not exactly bright. He can barely put two words together. Equally, President Trump lacks the patience, focus and discipline to effectively implement his will. He is not really interested in developing policy. He is interested in being seen to win.

So far, this has limited the harm he has been able to do to US interests and the world order. However, we should not be too sanguine. President Trump is yet to face an externally generated crisis. Most of his problems have been self-made.

President Barack Obama came to office in the midst of a major financial crisis. Imagine if another crisis of that scale occurs, and our last line of defence is The Hulk?

This week Donald Trump made the case for a border wall in a televised address to the nation. He was unusually subdued – Banneresque, you might say. Then came the inevitable transformation. In a meeting with Democratic congressional leaders the next day, Trump reportedly slammed his hand on the table and stormed out when they refused to fund the wall.

The Hulk is only ever one temper tantrum away.


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## basilio (11 January 2019)

The end game is in sight for Donald Trump.  The Mueller investigation is almost over.  But just to get the highlights into the public arena Michael Cohen will be testifying in Congress on Feb 7th . (Assuming he doesn't fall sick/under a bus or something..)

* Michael Cohen to testify publicly before Congress in February *
Former Trump lawyer says he accepted invitation from top Democrat and will offer ‘full and credible account of events’

Ben Jacobs in Washington and agencies

 
 @Bencjacobs 
Fri 11 Jan 2019 09.25 AEDT





Cohen’s testimony will mark the first major public oversight hearing for the new Democratic House majority. Photograph: Jeenah Moon/Reuters
Donald Trump’s longtime lawyer and aide Michael Cohen says he has accepted an invitation from a top House Democrat to testify publicly before Congress next month.

His testimony before the House oversight and reform committee on 7 February will be the first major public oversight hearing for Democrats, who have promised greater scrutiny of Trump after winning control of the House in the 2018 midterm elections.

Cohen said in a statement: “I look forward to having the privilege of being afforded a platform with which to give a full and credible account of the events which have transpired.”

The New Yorker, who is to begin a three-year prison sentence in March, is a pivotal figure in investigations by the special counsel Robert Mueller into potential collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign, and by federal prosecutors in New York into campaign finance violations related to hush-money payments to two women who say they had sex with Trump.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/10/michael-cohen-congress-house-testimony-trump


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## Logique (11 January 2019)

Record low unemployment, record jobs for hispanics, blacks and women; record economic growth;  diplomacy breakthrough with North Korea.. median household income rose to $61,372 in 2017, a post-recession high;  wages up in August by their fastest rate since June 2009;  paychecks rose by 3.3 percent between 2016 and 2017, the most in a decade...

No, better to replace someone like that with these guys


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## basilio (11 January 2019)

Logique said:


> Record low unemployment, record jobs for hispanics, blacks and women; record economic growth;  diplomacy breakthrough with North Korea.. median household income rose to $61,372 in 2017, a post-recession high;  wages up in August by their fastest rate since June 2009;  paychecks rose by 3.3 percent between 2016 and 2017, the most in a decade...
> 
> No, better to replace someone like that with these guys
> View attachment 91275



Yep another true Trumpian. 

You can follow him him over the cliff - or perhaps you like to take the top bunk ?


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## tech/a (11 January 2019)

I love the guy.
He's got balls.


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## Junior (11 January 2019)

tech/a said:


> I love the guy.
> He's got balls.




Unfortunately, that's his only positive attribute.


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## tech/a (11 January 2019)

Junior said:


> Unfortunately, that's his only positive attribute.




Its a trait which will upset many but things get done.
He is elected leader and is leading.

You maybe surprised at how he is being perceived.

He has bought back employment and the stock market loves it.
He shut up Rocket man.
He is attacking the illegal immigrant issue head on.
China is quiet and watching --- with respect.

Sure there is a group who are hurting bad because they no longer
run the place---so all systems out--Dump Trump.
Happens in most corners of the planet with different players!


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## IFocus (11 January 2019)

Things always go up when you throw free money around, $1.5 Trillion debt make debt great again


BTW wages growth still at or below inflation


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## Darc Knight (11 January 2019)

Junior said:


> Unfortunately, that's his only positive attribute.




Shrivelled up I suspect. I'm guessing he's on TRT (which causes shutdown of natural testosterone production and ball shrinkage) due to his reported diet, lack of exercise, temperament, sex drive and ego.


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## tech/a (11 January 2019)

Nothing new


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## wayneL (11 January 2019)

Junior said:


> Unfortunately, that's his only positive attribute.



Ill take your bet, your'e gonna regret, 'cause Trump's the best there's ever been...


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## wayneL (11 January 2019)

tech/a said:


> Its a trait which will upset many but things get done.
> He is elected leader and is leading.
> 
> You maybe surprised at how he is being perceived.
> ...



9/10 of my American colleagues love him.


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## wayneL (11 January 2019)

Trump will win 2020... Unless of course all Dems haven't moved to the dystopian Canada like they said they would
..and lied.

But he'll still win


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## Knobby22 (11 January 2019)

wayneL said:


> Trump will win 2020... Unless of course all Dems haven't moved to the dystopian Canada like they said they would
> ..and lied.
> 
> But he'll still win



I predict it will be his own party that ensure he doesn't get to run.


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## wayneL (11 January 2019)

Knobby22 said:


> I predict it will be his own party that ensure he doesn't get to run.



That would be political suicide for the GOP


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## satanoperca (11 January 2019)

wayneL said:


> 9/10 of my American colleagues love him.




Hardly representative of the general population of USA.

And NO Wayne, he will not win a second term.


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## dutchie (11 January 2019)

Trump will win 2020 in a canter. 
America is already greater than it was under Obama.


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## Smurf1976 (11 January 2019)

Put someone like Trump in a team of 50 people.

Trump will produce 3 times as much visible activity as the others that is true.

The loss of productivity from the others will however slowly but surely increase and ends up being an order of magnitude greater than Trump's contribution, most of which is bluster rather than actual work anyway.

In due course those with ability will find employment elsewhere without such nonsense going on. Those who stay will be those who weren't able to get out - and they're the people you don't really want anyway.


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## satanoperca (11 January 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> Trump will produce 3 times as much visible activity as the others that is true.




I love this stuff, he tells you he is great and doing great things, but provides little evidence, but you believe.

He has produced f---k all of nothing so far, if he had, it had 2 years to build his f---king wall, when he had control of the lower and upper house, why didn't he do it then.

Just because someone tells you they are great, doesn't mean they are.

So many suckers in this world


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## tech/a (11 January 2019)

Certainly evokes emotion.


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## Smurf1976 (11 January 2019)

satanoperca said:


> I love this stuff, he tells you he is great and doing great things, but provides little evidence, but you believe.



If you think I’m a “believer” in Trump then I suggest you read my post again.

I said he creates a lot of activity which indeed he does. There’s far more fuss and drama from this man than any of his predecessors.

I’ve also said he detracts from the work of others far more than he contributes himself.

Nowhere have I said he actually gets much useful work done. People like that never do.


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## basilio (11 January 2019)

dutchie said:


> Trump will win 2020 in a canter.
> America is already greater than it was under Obama.




Indeed it is Dutchie. It has broken all records in destroying it's standing amongst previous friends and allies.
It has comprehensively trashed 200 years of  US precedents in governing and governance.
It has managed to inspire a world wide revival of Authoritarian and Nationalist governments and rolled back Democracy in a way not seen since the 1930's.

True greatness....


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## Smurf1976 (11 January 2019)

Logique said:


> Record low unemployment, record jobs for hispanics, blacks and women; record economic growth;  diplomacy breakthrough with North Korea.. median household income rose to $61,372 in 2017, a post-recession high;  wages up in August by their fastest rate since June 2009;  paychecks rose by 3.3 percent between 2016 and 2017, the most in a decade...



Personal opinions of the man aside, I do find Trump an interesting phenomenon.

He's extremely interventionist but seemingly loved by business and business lobbyists. He also seems to have a strong support base among the working class.

Most significant is the support from business. This would suggest the whole mantra about free markets and so on which has dominated Western political thought for the past 35 or so years is a long way off the mark if even business wants, indeed it seems actually needs, more government involvement in things.

I'm not arguing wrong or right. It's just something I find interesting since I never expected to hear it. It's the exact opposite of what has been said since the 1980's when it became all about de-regulation, "level playing fields" and so on. Now we've got someone extremely interventionist being credited with boosting business profits and the economy.

That's a bit like waking up tomorrow morning and hearing that doctors have found exercise is best avoided but smoking cigarettes isn't bad for you at all. Or hearing that Tony Abbott has launched a new career and is now working for the CFMEU. Or anything else that amounts to a complete reversal on what has been a heavily made point for a very long time which prompts you to check the date to ensure it isn't the 1st of April.

Never did I think I'd see business cheering on someone who's into government intervention and opposed to free trade. But like many things it seems the impossible has actually happened.


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## SirRumpole (11 January 2019)

Getting rid of Jim Mattis in favour of some yes man was just the latest of his blunders.

If he only listens to clones of himself who have little experience of government anyway, he will make blunder after blunder untill the people think he's not worth the trouble any more.

The latest drama over the Wall has only emphasised that he's an egotistical wrecker who cries like a baby when he doesn't get his own way.


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## sptrawler (11 January 2019)

Well smurph, I think a lot of the support from business, is due to the fact China don't respect intellectual ownership. 
I'm sure a lot of these U.S companies that were offshoring their manufacturing, are now finding their product in different wrapping, appearing on the shelves at half the price.
What Trump is doing is the only way to stop China taking over everything.
They control their currency, their economy, the price of imported products, it is bloody hard to compete with someone that can control all the inputs.


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## luutzu (11 January 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Well smurph, I think a lot of the support from business, is due to the fact China don't respect intellectual ownership.
> I'm sure a lot of these U.S companies that were offshoring their manufacturing, are now finding their product in different wrapping, appearing on the shelves at half the price.
> What Trump is doing is the only way to stop China taking over everything.
> They control their currency, their economy, the price of imported products, it is bloody hard to compete with someone that can control all the inputs.




Don't we kinda wish our Australian state elders could do that kind of protection on our behalf?

China has been filing more patents than the US for some years now. Sure they stole shiploads of IP and know-hows before, and now... 

Serve big stupid business for going over there exploiting their plebs thinking there wouldn't be any losses. 

Saw a recent interview with this whip smart, innovative, American tech genius nobody ever heard of before... he and his lab practically produces the tech and IP that enable Microsoft, Google, Apple etc. etc. 

His team of geniuses invented all the tech but never patent it. They do not believe in the money profit motive. They want the technology to enrich lives, move the world forward. 

Bill Gates and partner Allan where HS kids playing in the guy's lab. They took a bunch of his codes and tech to develop some microSoft app... then patent the crap out of it.

ANyway, he was saying that patents is just a very good way for corporations to make profit. It wouldn't help innovation at all. You patent something, milk the heck out of it... and that stops you from innovating.

So if China, or any country, could produce the same stuff and sell for a lot less... until global corporations pay their fair due of taxes to the country that nurture them... they can take a hike.


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## luutzu (11 January 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Getting rid of Jim Mattis in favour of some yes man was just the latest of his blunders.
> 
> If he only listens to clones of himself who have little experience of government anyway, he will make blunder after blunder untill the people think he's not worth the trouble any more.
> 
> The latest drama over the Wall has only emphasised that he's an egotistical wrecker who cries like a baby when he doesn't get his own way.




Heard that it's a move to begin privatising (further) the Pentagon.


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## sptrawler (11 January 2019)

I don't disagree with China doing what they have done, there has been a huge amount of good done, from the wealth generated.
Also I don't disagree with what Trump has done, because they don't want to become what China was, before the manufacturing revolution.
It is all about checks and balances.
Trump IMO, is taking a lot of flack from sectors that have a conflict of interest, and are well funded and well connected.
It is probably due to his arrogance, ignorance and stuburness, that he hasn't folded.lol


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## Smurf1976 (12 January 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Well smurph, I think a lot of the support from business, is due to the fact China don't respect intellectual ownership.
> I'm sure a lot of these U.S companies that were offshoring their manufacturing, are now finding their product in different wrapping, appearing on the shelves at half the price.



What I find truly amazing is that the CEO's who did this in the first place are considered worth employing at even the minimum wage.

Anyone old enough to have been running a company when this was going on and with even a shred of life experience would surely have grasped that "intellectual property" is a concept acknowledged in principle only but pretty much never in practice.

Pretty much everyone copied cassette tapes back in the 1980's for example, piracy was almost universal, and plenty of people pirated computer software back then as well. Plenty as in "everyone's done it sometime". Of all things stolen, IP would top the list for sure and has for decades.

To be running a company, handing someone else your IP, and not expecting that outcome requires a unique degree of naivety not commonly seen in adults. That such people seem to think they're worth paying $ millions at the expense of shareholders, workers and consumers defies belief really.


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## Smurf1976 (12 January 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Also I don't disagree with what Trump has done, because they don't want to become what China was, before the manufacturing revolution.



Many of his ideas have a lot of merit. Some of them could sensibly be applied in Australia too if we had leaders.

It's the sociopathic narcissism stuff that he needs to drop.


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## sptrawler (12 January 2019)

That is the problem with the capitalist system, it is all about bottom line, everyone is paid on current results not on end results.
As you know, when generation was Government run, capacity was installed on expected demand. Now generation is installed to meet demand, there is a huge difference


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## luutzu (12 January 2019)

sptrawler said:


> I don't disagree with China doing what they have done, there has been a huge amount of good done, from the wealth generated.
> Also I don't disagree with what Trump has done, because they don't want to become what China was, before the manufacturing revolution.
> It is all about checks and balances.
> Trump IMO, is taking a lot of flack from sectors that have a conflict of interest, and are well funded and well connected.
> It is probably due to his arrogance, ignorance and stuburness, that he hasn't folded.lol




The Wall, the tariff, the trade wars... Trump is, maybe accidentally, very smart in selling them as a way to get back at China and save real American jobs, protect its borders etc. But it's all BS. 

In 30 years when the new trade deal with Mexico and Canada is made public, I bet you it'll show he just screwed American workers as bad as Clinton and Bush Snr did the first time round.

You can see it in GM etc., announcng closure of a few plants in the US soon after. Moving it to Mexico. 

The trade war with China serves two purpose, neither of which is to benefit the average worker in the US. In fact, it destroy more American jobs than it create; and it put that tariff burden on average consumers tha hurting Chinese/American importers.

The aim is to slow down China's rise. Getting manufacturers to move to lesser Asian countries. Exploit those poorer bastards there. Take some air out of China's manufacturing powress.

Second, it give American banks and manufacturers leverage to pry open the Chinese market, particularly its financials/banking/capital market for US innovation and profiteering.

I think that's how Tesla just became the first foreign manufacturer to completely own its operations in China. No partnership with a Beijing-backed partner.

Not sure if that's a smart move by Tesla as it'll just mean they're the sucker funding the whole project and Chinese admirers can just get the drawings for nothing. 

The big prize is for the likesof Goldman Sachs coming in, helping Chinese firms raise capital; work with Beijing on projects; privatise them inefficient firms. 

If Beijing is run by some idiot, they'll allow that.. and it's game over.


----------



## sptrawler (12 January 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> Many of his ideas have a lot of merit.
> 
> It's the sociopathic narcissism stuff that he needs to drop.



I think a lot of that may be to keep a state of confusion, if he behaved normaly, he would be bogged down with trying to justify his position
I think he is amazing, achieving a lot, behaving like an idiot and no one can pin him down, that takes brilliance in the U.S. IMO
When all and sundry hate you and won't spare any expense to get rid of you
Absolutely amazing.


----------



## Stock Jock (12 January 2019)

I'm concerned about where the steel for Trump's wall will come from.  The US has trade tariffs on every steel producing country except Russia.   Trump originally campaigned that Americans buy American products, but is this the case for the steel to build the boarder wall?


----------



## Stock Jock (12 January 2019)

​


----------



## Darc Knight (12 January 2019)

I was reading how if Trump put the money he inherited into a Managed Fund rather than go into Business, he'd be worth more now. 

This situation with Rocket Man, hasn't he just stopped making threats - still building Nukes. Looks like the only deal Trump made with Rocket Man was "you shut your mouth and we won't park a Battlegroup off your coast".

Then there's this stupid Wall. They already use tunnels to get into the U.S. you reckon this Wall is really worth it? Let's harm 800,000 Government employees and their families (and the rest) just so you can achieve whatever it is he's trying to achieve.


----------



## IFocus (13 January 2019)

wayneL said:


> 9/10 of my American colleagues love him.





They don't work for the government I take it


----------



## Stock Jock (13 January 2019)




----------



## Stock Jock (13 January 2019)

Amid border wall debate, third drug tunnel found in less than a month along Arizona border.


----------



## So_Cynical (13 January 2019)

dutchie said:


> Trump will win 2020 in a canter.
> America is already greater than it was under Obama.




I think someone should run a book on this...i reckon he wont even stand.


----------



## Junior (14 January 2019)

So_Cynical said:


> I think someone should run a book on this...i reckon he wont even stand.




I don't think so either.  The forces opposing Trump continue to mount, it's incredible he's lasted this long, and difficult to believe he will be able to run, and win again, in 2020.

Otherwise intelligent people, who are blinded by their love for Trump, support his wall.  It's all a bit embarrassing.  

People will go over, around, under and through the gates of the wall.


----------



## IFocus (14 January 2019)

Gents important to point out that Trumps support base hasn't moved in the polls no matter what he has done if he runs 2020 he will win if the Democrats run a lemon of fail to turn out because the Trump supporters will.


----------



## sptrawler (14 January 2019)

Junior said:


> People will go over, around, under and through the gates of the wall.




I don't think it is about the wall keeping people out, it is more a symbolic gesture, delineating the U.S border.
Americans are very patriotic, and it is my guess, many could think it is a great idea.


----------



## Smurf1976 (14 January 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Americans are very patriotic, and it is my guess, many could think it is a great idea.



Patriotic and also for many of them not at all well informed about anywhere in the world other than the USA.

I don't intend that comment to be offensive, it's just an observation of how it is.


----------



## sptrawler (14 January 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> Patriotic and also for many of them not at all well informed about anywhere in the world other than the USA.
> 
> I don't intend that comment to be offensive, it's just an observation of how it is.



You are spot on smurph.
I worked for the U.S Navy for a couple of years, and judging Americans by an Australian yardsticks, will find you way off the mark. IMO


----------



## SirRumpole (14 January 2019)

This is not just Canadian generosity it's a poke in the eye for Trump.

Letting those darn ferreners look after his own people after he deserted them.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01...trollers-buy-pizza-for-us-colleagues/10714696


----------



## Logique (15 January 2019)

He will go down as a greater President than the Intern-fiddler (who _was_ impeached) and Barack O'Windbag combined. No wonder the Democrats are increasingly deranged in their efforts to dislodge him.


----------



## PZ99 (15 January 2019)

He will go down as the only President to not visit Australia since Carter.


----------



## Logique (15 January 2019)

Mr Trumble being so welcoming and all!


----------



## SirRumpole (15 January 2019)

Given the turn against him in the House of Reps it's doubtful that he will get a second term if he stands.

There are too many suspicions about his financial activities for him to survive imo.


----------



## Stock Jock (15 January 2019)

Logique said:


> He will go down as a greater President than the Intern-fiddler (who _was_ impeached) and Barack O'Windbag combined. No wonder the Democrats are increasingly deranged in their efforts to dislodge him.



What has the done that is greater than any other President?


----------



## SirRumpole (15 January 2019)

PZ99 said:


> He will go down as the only President to not visit Australia since Carter.




Did Reagan come here ?

I didn't think he knew of the existence of the Southern Hemisphere.


----------



## Junior (15 January 2019)

Logique said:


> He will go down as a greater President than the Intern-fiddler (who _was_ impeached) and Barack O'Windbag combined. No wonder the Democrats are increasingly deranged in their efforts to dislodge him.




* according to his Twitter feed.


----------



## Darc Knight (15 January 2019)

Conservative politicians should do a heck of a lot more than middle or leftest politicians as conservative politicians by nature have more money to play with due to all the cuts to social services and government that they make.
It's hard to determine what Trump has actually achieved due to his pathological lying and he's probably fudging figures to deceive.


----------



## PZ99 (15 January 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Did Reagan come here ?
> 
> I didn't think he knew of the existence of the Southern Hemisphere.



Aye you're right - he didn't. On both counts.

But it just goes to show the reality doesn't it?

We are so insignificant yet we are willing to join their Woalition of the Killing.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (15 January 2019)

1. Trump is an embarrassment to the noble professions of real estate spruiking and dodgy development.

2. He did not expect to be President. Hollywood and Hillary handed it to him.

3. He doesn't give a rats about anything he does or any decision he makes as long as it profits him or his family. 

4. Whether he is dumped or not does not really worry him, so he has an advantage over his enemies to whom his end is a religion.

5. I've never met him and outwith that declaration I do not like him.

gg


----------



## Junior (15 January 2019)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> 5. I've never met him and outwith that declaration I do not like him.




I'm fascinated at how so many people seem to like him.....he rarely speaks any truth, he idolises dictators, he verbally abuses - in an utterly childish manner - anyone who dares disagree with or criticise him in any way.  He is extremely unprofessional, has almost no relevant experience, and is running an absolute ****-show of a Government.


----------



## Stock Jock (15 January 2019)




----------



## Smurf1976 (15 January 2019)

Junior said:


> I'm fascinated at how so many people seem to like him.....



I'm by no means a liker of him in terms of his personality or performance as US President but he does offer one thing that appeals to many.

Pushback against globalisation.

It failed as a concept last time it was tried and my own view is that it's well on the way to failing again this time around. It brings some benefits most certainly but it has come at a huge cost with inequality and that's inherently unsustainable.


----------



## SirRumpole (15 January 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> I'm by no means a liker of him in terms of his personality or performance as US President but he does offer one thing that appeals to many.
> 
> Pushback against globalisation.
> 
> It failed as a concept last time it was tried and my own view is that it's well on the way to failing again this time around. It brings some benefits most certainly but it has come at a huge cost with inequality and that's inherently unsustainable.




Globalisation will ruin developed economies if it's allowed to run on.

Look at the industries that we have lost, electronics, tcf, auto manufacturing, food companies swallowed up, manufacturing etc. We can't even be a clever country any more because governments have hacked the heart out of tafes and universities and most uni graduates can't find a job.

Is Trump's way the best way to rectify this ? I don't know but he seems to be one of the few politicians around the world to even recognise that there is a problem, much less doing anything about it.

He's also right about China and technology theft. If we let them into our communications and internet systems we are like mice ready to be caught.


----------



## Smurf1976 (15 January 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Is Trump's way the best way to rectify this ? I don't know but he seems to be one of the few politicians around the world to even recognise that there is a problem, much less doing anything about it.
> 
> He's also right about China and technology theft.



Yep.

I'll add that it's in no way a racial thing, it's simply business. China is using every possible means to win the game and we need to do likewise.


----------



## ducati916 (16 January 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> Yep.
> 
> I'll add that it's in no way a racial thing, it's simply business. China is using every possible means to win the game and we need to do likewise.





Well it is nationalism, which is only a small step from racism, is it not?

jog on
duc


----------



## Stock Jock (16 January 2019)




----------



## Knobby22 (16 January 2019)

Stock Jock said:


> View attachment 91366​



Will they back pay them later?


----------



## wayneL (16 January 2019)

ducati916 said:


> Well it is nationalism, which is only a small step from racism, is it not?
> 
> jog on
> duc



Not at all.


----------



## SirRumpole (16 January 2019)

Would HE be this nepotistic ?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-16/ivanka-trump-for-world-bank-president/10719312


----------



## PZ99 (16 January 2019)

Knobby22 said:


> Will they back pay them later?



From what I've read they usually get back paid.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/11/bill-on-federal-workers-back-pay-in-shutdown-heads-to-trump.html


----------



## Stock Jock (16 January 2019)




----------



## Stock Jock (16 January 2019)




----------



## ducati916 (16 January 2019)

wayneL said:


> Not at all.




Historically it has been the case. What has changed?

jog on
duc


----------



## Smurf1976 (16 January 2019)

ducati916 said:


> Well it is nationalism, which is only a small step from racism, is it not?



No, there's a vast difference.

I have nothing against China or Chinese people other than that they are seeking to gain economic advantage by unfair means, that being to price labour below rates acceptable in developed countries.

Fix that problem, ensure that workers are employed under arrangements that would be acceptable in Australia, UK, France or other developed countries and I'm fine with it.

It's an economic issue not a racial or even nationalist one.

Likewise if I'm running a small business and doing everything legitimately then yes I'm going to object if I find that the competition just down the road is paying foreign students $5 an hour to do the work, isn't collecting GST and has by-passed the electricity meter. Should I become aware of that unfair competition, yes I'll be expecting that a stop is put to it real quick. That's in no way racist just because the owners and employees happen to be from wherever. It's simply about fair and reasonable competition in business.


----------



## wayneL (16 January 2019)

ducati916 said:


> Historically it has been the case. What has changed?
> 
> jog on
> duc



No, not at all Duc.

There are iterations of nationalism which include some form of racism, the Third Reich for example, but racism is not intrinsic to nationalism.

Civic Nationalism (the vast majority of Nationalists) contains no component of racism.


----------



## ducati916 (16 January 2019)

wayneL said:


> No, not at all Duc.
> 
> There are iterations of nationalism which include some form of racism, the Third Reich for example, but racism is not intrinsic to nationalism.
> 
> Civic Nationalism (the vast majority of Nationalists) contains no component of racism.




I didn't claim that it was intrinsic. I claimed that it is a short step, which historically has been the case. A more recent example than Nazism, is Mugabe and Zimbabwe.






It is a short step from one's nation to, the original inhabitants, excluding immigrants.

jog on
duc


----------



## ducati916 (16 January 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> No, there's a vast difference.
> 
> I have nothing against China or Chinese people other than that they are seeking to gain economic advantage by unfair means, that being to price labour below rates acceptable in developed countries.
> 
> ...




I was not referring to you, rather when a country turns overly nationalistic, for any reason, including economic ones [are they not always], then it is a slippery slope for immigrants who often cop the blame for economic woes.

jog on
duc


----------



## wayneL (16 January 2019)

Duc, a country can be multi-ethnic, multiracial and still be nationalistic

For instance in the United States, caucasians, african-americans, and indigenous, or indeed any other racial group can feel nationalistic about the United States

Indeed I myself as a Civic nationalist am not racist at all


----------



## wayneL (16 January 2019)

And believe me I have examined this question long and hard. My posts on this very form of a few years ago will reveal my searching myself on this topic


----------



## ducati916 (16 January 2019)

wayneL said:


> 1. Duc, a country can be multi-ethnic, multiracial and still be nationalistic
> 
> 2. For instance in the United States, caucasians, african-americans, and indigenous, or indeed any other racial group can feel nationalistic about the United States
> 
> 3. Indeed I myself as a Civic nationalist am not racist at all




1. Absolutely.

2. Yes they can. That does not however prevent those who hold the power, from decreeing that some are more American/British/ than others. Take the massive backlashes in Europe currently [Austria/Germany/Norway/Sweden/Spain/France] on the immigration issues. The UK pulled out of Europe largely on immigration issues. All the governments are under pressure from increasingly nationalistic political adversaries to become more nationalistic, which essentially means: tough on immigration.

3. I am not accusing you of being one.

jog on
duc


----------



## wayneL (16 January 2019)

ducati916 said:


> 1. Absolutely.
> 
> 2. Yes they can. That does not however prevent those who hold the power, from decreeing that some are more American/British/ than others. Take the massive backlashes in Europe currently [Austria/Germany/Norway/Sweden/Spain/France] on the immigration issues. The UK pulled out of Europe largely on immigration issues. All the governments are under pressure from increasingly nationalistic political adversaries to become more nationalistic, which essentially means: tough on immigration.
> 
> ...



Oh I apologise if you thought that I thought that you were accusing me, I was just using myself as an example.

But is your point tWo such a bad thing if judiciously employed? I think a society- nation has the right to choose whom they admit to their Society.

Ultimately a nation has the responsibility to act in the best interests of their own nation and it's people. If that means excluding certain others, and that may not mean groups but maybe other cultural considerations, then so be it.

It may not involve racism at all.


----------



## Smurf1976 (16 January 2019)

ducati916 said:


> I was not referring to you, rather when a country turns overly nationalistic, for any reason, including economic ones [are they not always], then it is a slippery slope for immigrants who often cop the blame for economic woes.



I do agree it potentially could be a slippery slope situation.

Country x competes unfairly against businesses in country y.

People in country y not unreasonably object to businesses in their country being harmed and ordinary people being put out of work. Fair enough if the business in country x legitimately has a better product or means of production, business is business and people can accept it if someone else really has done it better, but it's not at all fair and reasonable if they're cheating by avoiding tax, underpaying workers or dumping waste in the ocean etc.

Ends with people in country y hating people in country x for what's happened when the real issue is the actions of government or business not the people as such. 

I can see how that could happen yes.

In the same way it could be said, to pick some random examples:

*Trump doesn't speak for all Americans.

*That the UK voted to leave the EU doesn't mean everyone in Britain hates Germans, French or Italians. It's an economic and political thing, nothing personal.

*Regardless of who's in government at any given time, a decent % of Australians, or the residents of any particular state or territory, didn't vote for them and don't necessarily agree with their policies.

And so on.


----------



## ducati916 (16 January 2019)

wayneL said:


> 1. Oh I apologise if you thought that I thought that you were accusing me, I was just using myself as an example.
> 
> 2. But is your point tWo such a bad thing if judiciously employed? I think a society- nation has the right to choose whom they admit to their Society.
> 
> ...




1. Not an issue.

2. Which is, is it not, the slippery slope.

3. You either have open borders, or you do not. It is difficult, if not impossible, to find a middle ground. As a simplified example:

We live in a street of 5 houses. As neighbours we are all in agreement that if one [or more] wanted to sell and move away, that we would only sell to someone with 'XYZ' characteristics. Now those characteristics may, or may not, encompass racial characteristics.

Are we racist [assuming for a moment that 'XYZ' characteristics contain or are considered to be racist in their content] in exercising our legal property rights?

jog on
duc


----------



## ducati916 (16 January 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> I do agree it potentially could be a slippery slope situation.
> 
> Country x competes unfairly against businesses in country y.
> 
> ...




Which is why democracy is inherently flawed. The Swiss Cantons are the best 'government' currently available.

jog on
duc


----------



## SirRumpole (16 January 2019)

wayneL said:


> For instance in the United States, caucasians, african-americans, and indigenous, or indeed any other racial group can feel nationalistic about the United States




Laudable up to a point, but it can go too far and can clog up the bs detector when strong nationalists stir the pot for their own benefit.


----------



## wayneL (16 January 2019)

ducati916 said:


> 1. Not an issue.
> 
> 2. Which is, is it not, the slippery slope.
> 
> ...



I dont believe an open border policy is beneficial in any way


----------



## wayneL (16 January 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Laudable up to a point, but it can go too far and can clog up the bs detector when strong nationalists stir the pot for their own benefit.



Of course, any ideology can range from pragmatic to ridiculous, left or right.

This is why I hope for a return to somewhere near the center.... a mixed economy, and a reserved and tolerant (in all directions) social order.

We (Oz) are pretty close economically, but socially there are problems


----------



## ducati916 (16 January 2019)

wayneL said:


> I dont believe an open border policy is beneficial in any way





Ok.

So everyone in the country, like my street, is in agreement. No-one will sell immigrants any property, nor hire them in employment, nor contract them if self-employed.

You can have an open border policy and still have zero immigration.

Of course the example is silly. The reason being that self-interest will predominate. If an immigrant offers me a silly price for 'X', I'll likely take it. Or, I simply like immigration. Or any other reason.

Thus nationalism is political in nature. Where an elite decide who/when/where/etc. These decisions if 'nationalistic' tend to be discriminatory based on race.

If you need doctors/nurses/teachers/etc, does it matter which culture/ethnicity they are, assuming that they are qualified and competent? 

Does it matter that they wish to practice their religion/culture/other in [your] country?

jog on
duc


----------



## wayneL (16 January 2019)

ducati916 said:


> Ok.
> 
> So everyone in the country, like my street, is in agreement. No-one will sell immigrants any property, nor hire them in employment, nor contract them if self-employed.
> 
> ...



Those people add to our society, but going from the sublime to the ridiculous, what if we allowed a massive influx of 13the century style Mongolians led by none other than a direct descendant of Genghis Khan...

There could be a negative effect.

Yes its a silly example, but Im sure you see my point through the hyperbole.

Or perhaps look to Western Europe as an example?


----------



## Smurf1976 (16 January 2019)

ducati916 said:


> If you need doctors/nurses/teachers/etc, does it matter which culture/ethnicity they are, assuming that they are qualified and competent?




No, it doesn't matter in a practical sense. I would argue however that we shouldn't be poaching doctors from less developed countries unless those countries do in fact have a surplus of trained doctors and that we also should not be denying the opportunity that people born in Australia can become a doctor.

Immigration shouldn't be simply an easy way out to avoid the expense of training people in Australia to be doctors.

Same with anything. If there are young people in Australia wanting to train as plumbers (for example) then no, we should not be importing plumbers to fill gaps in the workforce. Instead we should train those who want to do it.


----------



## Stock Jock (16 January 2019)




----------



## Stock Jock (16 January 2019)




----------



## ducati916 (17 January 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> 1. No, it doesn't matter in a practical sense. I would argue however that we shouldn't be poaching doctors from less developed countries unless those countries do in fact have a surplus of trained doctors and that we also should not be denying the opportunity that people born in Australia can become a doctor.
> 
> 2. Immigration shouldn't be simply an easy way out to avoid the expense of training people in Australia to be doctors.
> 
> 3. Same with anything. If there are young people in Australia wanting to train as plumbers (for example) then no, we should not be importing plumbers to fill gaps in the workforce. Instead we should train those who want to do it.




1. 
(a) So in our less developed country we do have a deficit of doctors. The individual however [somehow] managed to pay his way through medical school. He now wants to leave to provide a better lifestyle for his family in a more developed country; or
(b) the State paid for his education. The State requires 'X' years service prior to being allowed to leave. Assuming that that period has now been served; and
(c) there is a shortage and demand in the better developed country; then
(d) it is likely that that doctor will emigrate. This will reduce the opportunities for home grown doctors, while depriving the lesser developed country of doctors; unless
(e) that country specialises in the training and export of doctors.

2. If immigration is [currently] the answer to a shortage, there is a failing in the system. It may be:

(a) There is not the training facilities/expertise to train/teach, or
(b) a lack of [suitable] candidates.

This goes back to 1(e) where we may have a situation where the export goods are people with skills. It could also mean that the investment and time required is excessive when compared to simply importing the skill, which reinforces 1(e).

3. Once young people in a mature [rich] economy get past the rock star/sports star/etc /first job/job while at Uni period and have to consider a real job [career] how attractive are these [subjective] lesser occupations to them? 

If there are shortages and there seem to be, it must be because the job/profession is unattractive, for whatever reason, or lack of training infrastructure to train homegrown skills.

To fill the requirements on a voluntary basis, if no demand, you will require immigration. To fill via training, if no training infrastructure, you need investment [assuming the demand is there for training]. If you invest, what do you have to give up?

Of course with the internet, competition can come from anywhere. You can outsource to India/etc for all manner of work via the internet if price is your primary consideration. Geographical borders are no final protection anymore.

Soon there will be further competition from robotics across all manner of jobs/professions.

Brave new world.

jog on
duc


----------



## wayneL (17 January 2019)

"Open border" is an oxymoron.

Promoting the idea of an open border is tantamount to promoting the idea of globalism (please note the difference between this and globalisation).

Globalism is nothing more than a sanitization and obfuscation of the terms "one world government" and/or "new world order".

Look no further than the EU project to see how this is not in the interests of ordinary folk and is starting to fail.

Human nature deems it cannot work in practice.


----------



## SirRumpole (17 January 2019)

ducati916 said:


> 2. If immigration is [currently] the answer to a shortage, there is a failing in the system. It may be:
> 
> (a) There is not the training facilities/expertise to train/teach, or
> (b) a lack of [suitable] candidates.




If we are talking about doctors, another issue may be that established doctors don't want to train their competition.


----------



## Logique (17 January 2019)

Indeed the AMA is a union, and fiercely protective of it's own turf. 

Honestly, thank goodness for foreign doctors entering our medical system. People think medicine is expensive now! Just imagine the alternative.


----------



## ducati916 (17 January 2019)

wayneL said:


> "Open border" is an oxymoron.
> 
> Promoting the idea of an open border is tantamount to promoting the idea of globalism (please note the difference between this and globalisation).
> 
> ...




Agreed.

The smaller the State, the better.

jog on
duc


----------



## bellenuit (17 January 2019)

"There was no collusion" has now morphed into "we don't know if there was collusion".  Wait a few days until we have "there was collusion but the president didn't know about it, but anyway it is not a crime" to "the president did collude but ...."


----------



## Stock Jock (18 January 2019)

​


----------



## Logique (19 January 2019)

Having tried to shut down the President's State of the Union address, Speaker Pelosi was going to swan off on a 7 day 'excursion', while 800.000 American workers were wondering how to pay the mortgage! Trump calls her on this, and this letter shows why he will be re-elected next time


----------



## Darc Knight (19 January 2019)

Logique said:


> Having tried to shut down the President's State of the Union address, Speaker Pelosi was going to swan off on a 7 day 'excursion', while 800.000 American workers were wondering how to pay the mortgage! Trump calls her on this, and this letter shows why he will be re-elected next time
> 
> View attachment 91462




"Swan off"? I wouldn't call going to Egypt and Afghanistan "swanning off" 
Two of the most dangerous places on Earth I woulda thought.


----------



## wayneL (19 January 2019)

Darc Knight said:


> "Swan off"? I wouldn't call going to Egypt and Afghanistan "swanning off"
> Two of the most dangerous places on Earth I woulda thought.



What term should we use in the circumstances then?
Nikking off
Buzzing off
Shagging off
P1ssing off
####ing off
Naffing off?

I also have this hunch that she might have  a security detail, no?


----------



## Darc Knight (19 January 2019)

wayneL said:


> What term should we use in the circumstances then?
> Nikking off
> Buzzing off
> Shagging off
> ...




I've asked you before to refrain from the use of technical jargon. Please adhere to your previous agreement


----------



## sptrawler (19 January 2019)

Hooray, they have finally got him, the elusive Trump has finally been caught out.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-...-story-of-his-presidency-20190119-p50scm.html

Or is it just another paper filling exercise?


----------



## Darc Knight (19 January 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Hooray, they have finally got him, the elusive Trump has finally been caught out.
> 
> https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-...-story-of-his-presidency-20190119-p50scm.html
> 
> Or is it just another paper filling exercise?




For a person who hates Fairfax with a passion, you certainly read a lot of it. You a VIP member or something Homer?


----------



## Darc Knight (19 January 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Hooray, they have finally got him, the elusive Trump has finally been caught out.
> 
> https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-...-story-of-his-presidency-20190119-p50scm.html
> 
> Or is it just another paper filling exercise?




Just read the article. Same problem as always. Everyone knows Trump's as crocked as a dog's hind leg so they jump on everything. Trump's a smart cookie, corrupt as hell, but you gotta get your ducks in a row. Remember the famous line from All the President's Men "_you've done worse than that, you made them feel sorry for him, I didn't think that was possible. In a conspiracy like this, you build from the outer edges and go step by step. If you shoot too high and miss, everybody feels more secure. You've put the investigation back months."_


----------



## bigdog (19 January 2019)

www.theage.com.au/world/trump-and-kim-jong-un-to-hold-second-summit-in-february-white-house-20190118-p50scw.html?btis

*Trump and Kim Jong-un to hold second summit in February: White House*

*Washington:* US President Donald Trump will meet with North Korea's leader, Kim Jong-un, in late February, the White House announced Friday, local time, continuing a high-level diplomatic dialogue that has eased tensions but shown little progress in eliminating the North's nuclear arsenal.

The announcement came after Trump met for 90 minutes in the Oval Office with Kim Yong-chol, the former North Korean intelligence chief who has acted as the chief nuclear negotiator for Kim.

The White House press secretary, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, said the date and the location of the meeting would be announced later, suggesting that the two sides were still haggling over the site or other logistical details. Vietnam, Thailand and Hawaii have all been mentioned as potential sites.

The very fact that Trump is agreeing to a second summit with Kim, after North Korea's failure to begin denuclearization after their first meeting in Singapore in June, is a sign of how quickly the President has backed away from his initial insistence on fast action by Pyongyang.

The first step the North Koreans were expected to take after the June meeting was a detailed inventory of their nuclear assets. That was to include the number of weapons they have produced — variously estimated at 20 to 60 — the locations of those weapons, any nuclear materials used to produce new weapons, and a detailed list of their missiles and missile launchers.

The United States wanted to use the list to truth-test the North, comparing it to what US intelligence agencies have gathered over the past 30 years. But the North Koreans have complained to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and other visiting Americans that the inventory would amount to a targeting list, telling the US what to attack should Trump ever order a pre-emptive strike.

For months, that issue produced a stalemate in diplomatic talks, along with insistence from the US that major steps toward denuclearization would have to precede any initial lifting of sanctions.

But in November, Vice President Mike Pence began to loosen the conditions, telling NBC News that North Korea did not have to turn over its inventory to secure a second meeting with Trump. At the time, Pence seemed to acknowledge that the Singapore meeting had resulted in agreements so vague that they allowed the North to drag its feet.

"I think it will be absolutely imperative in this next summit that we come away with a plan for identifying all of the weapons in question, identifying all the development sites, allowing for inspections of the sites and the plan for dismantling nuclear weapons," Pence said, noting that it was time to "see results".

This month, Kim spent three days in Beijing, where President Xi Jinping of China and his wife, Peng Liyuan, hosted a dinner for Kim and his wife, Ri Sol Ju. The visit coincided with what is believed to be Kim's 35th birthday, though North Korea has never confirmed that date.

During previous visits to China by Kim, Trump has complained that Xi was encouraging the North Korean leader to drive a hard bargain with the United States over his nuclear weapons.


----------



## sptrawler (19 January 2019)

Darc Knight said:


> For a person who hates Fairfax with a passion, you certainly read a lot of it. You a VIP member or something Homer?



No it is the only one I can read, without subscribing. 

That and the West Australian.

Also to be accurate I hate all of them with a passion, because they are full of opinions and very little news.
If I want opinions, I can get them on here.


----------



## Stock Jock (19 January 2019)

Logique said:


> Having tried to shut down the President's State of the Union address, Speaker Pelosi was going to swan off on a 7 day 'excursion', while 800.000 American workers were wondering how to pay the mortgage! Trump calls her on this, and this letter shows why he will be re-elected next time


----------



## IFocus (19 January 2019)

Logique said:


> Having tried to shut down the President's State of the Union address, Speaker Pelosi was going to swan off on a 7 day 'excursion', while 800.000 American workers were wondering how to pay the mortgage! Trump calls her on this, and this letter shows why he will be re-elected next time
> 
> View attachment 91462





Aaah you may not realise  inconveniently that Trump and Republicans (separately) have already swan-ed off during the shut down already on the same trip!

Also 1st time ever that security has been breached (by Trump) in this manner for any such trip.


----------



## Logique (19 January 2019)

wayneL said:


> What term should we use in the circumstances then?
> Nikking off
> Buzzing off
> Shagging off
> ...



Or skiving off? I wonder which description would most suit the 800,000 government employees who can't pay the electricity bill or the mortgage. Because of Democrat grandstanding. Or do the Dems just consider these people to be 'deplorables'


----------



## Smurf1976 (19 January 2019)

Logique said:


> Or skiving off? I wonder which description would most suit the 800,000 government employees who can't pay the electricity bill or the mortgage. Because of Democrat grandstanding. Or do the Dems just consider these people to be 'deplorables'



Commonsense tells me it's Trump that they'd be unhappy with.

He's the one who shut down the government after all and refuses to re-open it.


----------



## luutzu (19 January 2019)

Logique said:


> Having tried to shut down the President's State of the Union address, Speaker Pelosi was going to swan off on a 7 day 'excursion', while 800.000 American workers were wondering how to pay the mortgage! Trump calls her on this, and this letter shows why he will be re-elected next time
> 
> View attachment 91462




Grandma and grandpa's fight. 

Grandkids and great greandkids not getting fed.

Good stuff.


----------



## luutzu (19 January 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> Commonsense tells me it's Trump that they'd be unhappy with.
> 
> He's the one who shut down the government after all and refuses to re-open it.




Heard from an interviewer, and this could be just one of those "conspiracy theory" stuff but it makes a lot of sense to me...

The shutdown is both sides, particularly the Republican's, way of snuffing out public service. Reducing the work force. Cutting services from the plebs and just blame each other for it.

See, in not paying people for work... most Americans just doesn't have the savings to work for long without getting paid. 

So they'll quit. 

When they quit, the gov't doesn't need to rehire or replace most of those places. So the budget on gov't spending, essential services etc., are cut.

Not to mention all the looting, passing of laws and weakening regulation that's taking place while all attention are on the shutdown and public blaming.


----------



## IFocus (19 January 2019)

Logique said:


> Or skiving off? I wonder which description would most suit the 800,000 government employees who can't pay the electricity bill or the mortgage. Because of Democrat grandstanding. Or do the Dems just consider these people to be 'deplorables'





2 Years Trump and his Republicans had to pass funding for a wall.....what happened?


----------



## basilio (19 January 2019)

luutzu said:


> The shutdown is both sides, particularly the Republican's, way of snuffing out public service. Reducing the work force. Cutting services from the plebs and just blame each other for it.




Dangerously true.


----------



## sptrawler (19 January 2019)

IFocus said:


> 2 Years Trump and his Republicans had to pass funding for a wall.....what happened?



Obviously, yet to be seen.


----------



## basilio (19 January 2019)

*Barr to Congress: Telling a witness to lie is a crime. New report: Trump told a witness to lie.*

Trump’s attorney general nominee said that a president can’t tell a witness to lie under oath. A BuzzFeed report says Trump did just that.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...ney-general-trump-cohen-lie-congress-buzzfeed


----------



## sptrawler (19 January 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> Commonsense tells me it's Trump that they'd be unhappy with.
> 
> He's the one who shut down the government after all and refuses to re-open it.



I have no idea how it works, but in the U.S "doesn't, what the President says goes"?

If not a lot of the movies will lose a lot of cred.lol
They wont be able to do "the presidents bodygaurd takes a bullet" $hit anymore.
All that would happen in the movies would be, " who gives a $hit, shoot him he is just another muppet".
Jeez this is great fun, everyone applying Australian beliefs, to U.S heads. lol


----------



## Logique (20 January 2019)

Americans know it's the Democrats who really shut down the government. Voters want the wall, and elected Trump to build it.

The Democrats could re-open the government in 20 minutes, by voting the allocation. They're just playing power politics at the expense of government employees. The current batch of Democrats would impeach Lincoln


----------



## Junior (20 January 2019)

Logique said:


> Americans know it's the Democrats who really shut down the government. Voters want the wall, and elected Trump to build it.
> 
> The Democrats could re-open the government in 20 minutes, by voting the allocation. They're just playing power politics at the expense of government employees. The current batch of Democrats would impeach Lincoln




Longest shutdown in history but of course, not the President’s fault.  

A strong leader is accountable and takes responsibility for what happens on his watch. If he was so incredible at doing deals how come the deal still isn’t done?


----------



## Darc Knight (20 January 2019)

Donald Trump didn't write The Art of the Deal book. His co author wrote the whole thing. Trump didn't write one word:

"_Schwartz expressed regrets about his involvement in the book, and both he and the book's publisher, Howard Kaminsky, said that Trump had played no role in the actual writing of the book._"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump:_The_Art_of_the_Deal


----------



## basilio (20 January 2019)

So it seems Robert Mueller is now Donald Trumps Bestie because he said Buzz Feeds story about Trump directing Robert Cohen to lie to Congress was "inaccurate". I wonder when this falls over.

 
*Mueller's disavowal of bombshell Cohen report fuels Trump's war with media *
The special counsel’s office broke its silence to dispute a claim by Buzzfeed that Trump had ordered his fixer to lie to Congress

....the special counsel spokesman, Peter Carr, released a rare statement that said: “BuzzFeed’s description of specific statements to the special counsel’s office, and characterization of documents and testimony obtained by this office, regarding Michael Cohen’s congressional testimony are not accurate.”

... Trump and his allies, who have derided Mueller’s investigation as a “witch-hunt”, sought to weaponise the dispute to build their narrative of media bias, noting that BuzzFeed’s account had been discussed on cable news channels all day. The president, who denies collusion with Russia, tweeted: “A very sad day for journalism, but a great day for our Country!”

On Saturday he told reporters at the White House *he appreciated “the special counsel coming out with a statement last night”

..Peter Baker, chief White House correspondent of the New York Times, posed an intriguing question: “If this is the first story the special counsel has felt compelled to dispute, does that mean he had no objection to all the others that have come out before now?”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/19/mueller-cohen-trump-buzzfeed-media*


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## Stock Jock (21 January 2019)

The President is always responsible for what his staff, appointees and his children do.  President Harry Truman made that clear.  Trump is no exception.


----------



## Stock Jock (21 January 2019)




----------



## bigdog (23 January 2019)

https://finance.yahoo.com/m/85612278-2481-34a5-8e2f-a92103932fc7/ss_here’s-president-trump’s.html
.
* Here’s President Trump’s stock-market scorecard after 2 years in office *
Published: Jan 22, 2019 3:11 p.m. ET

*Stocks suffer reversal of fortune on policy uncertainty*

President Donald Trump has often taken credit for how well stocks do, inadvertently turning equities into a proxy report card for his presidency. But as Trump begins his third year in office, the stock market is sending mixed signals on some of his signature policies, including a protracted trade war with China.

Jan. 20 marked two full years since the real estate mogul and the reality TV star was sworn in as president. In that time, stocks have rallied to records, making him among the most successful Republican presidents when judged by market gains. In fact, the Nasdaq soared 29% since January 2017, marking the tech-centric index’s best rally under a Republican president, according to Dow Jones Market Data.

But a rough 2018 dented Trump’s two-year performance, which for the S&P 500 left him with the 10th best percentage gain of 23 presidents, going back to Herbert Hoover, and the fifth best performance out of 11 Republican presidents, the data show.

Between Jan. 20, 2018 to Jan. 18 this year, the S&P 500 SPX, -1.42% fell 4.97% compared with average gains of 5.43% during a similar time frame while the Dow Jones Industrial Average DJIA, -1.22%  shed 5.24% versus a rise of 5.48% and the Nasdaq COMP, -1.91%  dropped 2.44%, sharply underperforming the average advance of 6.87%.






A combination of concerns about the Federal Reserve raising interest rates and Trump’s handling of trade negotiations with China has been blamed in part for taking a toll on a market that otherwise benefited from a robust economy, deregulatory efforts and a large corporate tax cut, underscoring the dramatic contrast in its fortunes from one year to the next as the following data show.

*Dow*
Second year in office (-5.24%):

5th worst percentage loss for a Republican president (out of 17)
9th worst percentage loss for any president (out of 31)
The worst second year in office (regardless of term) for a president since Bush from 2002 - 2003
First two years (+25.21%):

6th best percentage gain for a Republican president (out of 17)
11th best percentage gain for any president (out of 31)
The best first two years in office (regardless of term) for a Republican president since Reagan from 1985 - 1987
The best first two years in office (regardless of term) for a president since Obama from 2013 - 2015
*

S&P 500*
Second year in office (-4.97%):

4th worst percentage loss for a Republican president (out of 11)
8th worst percentage loss for any president (out of 23)
The worst second year in office (regardless of term) for a president since Bush from 2002-2003
First two years (+17.98%):

5th best percentage gain for a Republican president (out of 11)
10th best percentage gain for any president (out of 23)
The best first two years in office (regardless of term) for a Republican president since Bush from 2005 - 2007
The best first two years in office (regardless of term) for a president since Obama from 2013 - 2015
*

Nasdaq*
Second year in office (-2.44%):

4th worst percentage loss for a Republican president (out of 7)
5th worst percentage loss for any president (out of 12)
The worst second year in office (regardless of term) for a president since Bush from 2002-2003
First two years (+29.19%):

2nd best percentage gain for a Republican president (out of 7)
5th best percentage gain for any president (out of 12)
The best first two years in office (regardless of term) for a Republican president since Reagan from 1985 - 1987
The best first two years in office (of a first term) for a Republican president on record
The best first two years in office (regardless of term) for a president since Obama from 2013 - 2015
Stocks have partially recovered from the gut-wrenching selloff in late 2018 to punch higher in January. But it will be difficult for equities to reclaim the glory days of Trump’s first year with the global economy starting to show signs of fatigue while corporate earnings growth have slowed. Fears of a prolonged trade tensions with key trading partner China as well as the fallout from the partial government shutdown might also cap the market’s upside for now.

784


----------



## Darc Knight (23 January 2019)

*The warnings are getting starker: The US government shutdown is becoming catastrophic for the economy*

*https://www.businessinsider.com.au/...democrats-standoff-damaging-us-economy-2019-1*


----------



## basilio (24 January 2019)

*"It's time to Impeach Trump"*

Why should the Democrats move to impeach Donald Trump - even if it is unsuccessful. Check out this shrt history lesson the the impeachment of  President Andrew Johnson  in 1868

*It’s Time to Impeach Trump*
* Jan 17, 2019 | 30 videos *
*Video by The Atlantic *
Impeachment is a powerful tool. The time to wield it is now, argues the _Atlantic_ senior editor Yoni Appelbaum. In the latest _Atlantic _Argument_,_ Appelbaum invokes Andrew Johnson’s impeachment in 1868 to make the case for democratically removing President Donald Trump from office. Appelbaum underscores that this measure is not meant to resolve a policy dispute; rather, it is an attempt to rectify the problem of Trump’s inability to discharge the basic duties of his office.

“The president is unfit for the office he holds,” Appelbaum says in the video. “Congress needs to act now and open an impeachment inquiry.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/03/impeachment-trump/580468/


----------



## bigdog (25 January 2019)

https://www.usnews.com/news/busines.../strain-on-nations-air-travel-system-emerging

*Government Shutdown Strains Emerge in US Air Travel System*
Strains of government shutdown begin to emerge in nation's air travel system.
Jan. 24, 2019, at 3:56 p.m. 

By DAVID KOENIG, Associated Press

The strain of a 34-day partial government shutdown is weighing on the nation's air-travel system, both the federal workers who make it go and the airlines that depend on them.

Air traffic controllers and airport security agents continue to work without pay — they will miss a second biweekly paycheck on Friday — but high absentee rates raise the threat of long airport lines, or worse.

Unions that represent air traffic controllers, flight attendants and pilots are growing concerned about safety with the shutdown well into its fifth week. Airline executives say they are worried that long airport lines could scare off passengers. The economic damage, while small, is starting to show up in their financial reports.

Federal workers say going without pay is grinding them down, and they're not sure how much longer they can take it.

"The stress is getting to everyone," said Al Zamborsky, a radar specialist at Reagan National Airport outside Washington.

Zamborsky said co-workers are preoccupied with the shutdown and their personal finances. Safety isn't compromised, he said, but efficiency has suffered.

The presidents of unions representing air traffic controllers, pilots and flight attendants outlined their security concerns in a prepared statement.

"We have a growing concern for the safety and security of our members, our airlines, and the traveling public due to the government shutdown," they said. "In our risk-averse industry, we cannot even calculate the level of risk currently at play, nor predict the point at which the entire system will break."

The Transportation Safety Administration said 7.5 percent of its airport security officers scheduled to work on Wednesday did not show up. That is down from Sunday's 10 percent absent rate but more than double the 3 percent rate of the comparable Wednesday in 2018.

TSA has resorted to sending backup officers to beef up staffing at some airports and at times closing a couple of checkpoints at major airports. TSA said that only 3.7 percent of travelers screened Wednesday — or about 65,000 people — waited 15 minutes or longer.

Air traffic controllers are hired by the Federal Aviation Administration.

"We have seen no unusual increased absenteeism and there are no operational disruptions due to staffing," said FAA spokesman Greg Martin said. He declined to provide figures.

The impact to airlines' business has been small so far. Southwest Airlines said Thursday that the shutdown has cost it $10 million to $15 million in lost revenue. The airline had $5.7 billion revenue in the fourth quarter. Delta Air Lines, which had $10.7 billion in fourth-quarter revenue, expects to lose $25 million in sales this month.

However, there are other effects. The shutdown is holding up Southwest's plans to begin flights from California to Hawaii — the FAA regulators who must approve the long, over-water flights are not working during the shutdown. Delta's service using new planes is also likely to be pushed back because FAA officials are off the job.

Airlines are walking a fine line: They fear more financial harm if the shutdown continues, but they do not want to alarm passengers.

Southwest CEO Gary Kelly called the shutdown "maddening."

"This shutdown could harm the economy and it could harm air travel," Kelly said. "This is crazy, it just absolutely needs to end." He said the airline would do its best "to work through this slop and contain the damage."

Kelly and Doug Parker, the CEO of American Airlines, said the shutdown has not affected safety. However, if the shutdown leads to fewer TSA agents or air traffic controllers on the job, Parker said, "you get long lines at TSA but still the same level of screening, you get larger separation (in the air) of aircraft, so you have delayed airspace — things that are really concerning to us. That is what we fear may happen."

Parker urged government officials to resolve the shutdown so that customers don't have to fear "delays at the airport because air traffic controllers that can't afford to show up to work."

The toll is greatest, of course, on the federal workers who are going without paychecks.

"I have an 8-year-old son who asked me, 'Hey Dad, what are we going to do to pay our mortgage? Are we going to lose our house?'" said Mike Christine, an air traffic controller in Leesburg, Virginia. "That is not something an 8-year-old should be saying."

Christine's wife is a federal worker who is also about to miss her second paycheck.


----------



## basilio (25 January 2019)

Strains of working without pay for a month are reaching breaking point.

In a letter to President Trump today, Nathan Catura, who heads the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association, expressed just how dire the shutdown has been for workers who have now gone without pay for more than a month.

Describing the “perilous position” federal workers are facing, he writes that many are depending on GoFundMe pages and soup kitchens to get by. Citing that 27,000 federal agents and officers across 65 federal agencies are represented by his association and that all have had to work with no pay as their jobs are essential to national security, he called the shutdown reprehensible and asked the President to end it.

_"Many of our members conduct complex investigations including tracking terrorists, identifying foreign actors, and protecting elected officials, including you and your family. As the shutdown continues they are being put in both a fiscally and personally compromising position that is antithetical to the way our nation should be treating those that protect us. 


Twenty-first century law enforcement requires research, analysis and technology. These critical investigative support elements are not working during the shutdown, this compares to half of a team taking a field for a game. The targets of our investigations now have an advantage of being better informed and better resourced than our members. This is an extremely dangerous situation that threatens the lives of our members and all Americans.”_

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ws-today-live-government-shutdown-senate-vote


----------



## basilio (26 January 2019)

*Really not  a great idea to keep detailed records of a conspiracy ..*

*Trump’s Inner Circle Keeps Violating the Stringer Bell Rule*
Roger Stone is the latest of the president’s associates to ignore the most important rule in a conspiracy: Don’t take notes.

 12:35 PM ET



Adam Serwer
Staff writer at _The Atlantic_




Brendan McDermid / Reuters
If Donald Trump’s advisers had only watched _The Wire_, many of the president’s aides and associates might have saved themselves a great deal of legal trouble.

A scene from the HBO crime drama shows a character named Stringer Bell trying to broker peace between rival drug dealers, and trying to get them to abide by _Robert’s Rules of Order_. When the meeting adjourns, Bell walks up to a subordinate, who is busy scribbling on a legal pad.

“Motherxxxxxxr, what is that?” Bell asks.

“The _Robert Rules_ say we gotta have minutes for a meeting. These the minutes,” he replies.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...ciates-keep-taking-notes-conspiracies/581299/

Astonished, Bell snatches the paper out of his hand. “Nigga, is you takin’ notes on a criminal xuckin’ conspiracy? What the xuck is you thinking, man?”


----------



## basilio (26 January 2019)

And this argument says that the charges against Roger Stone make impeachment urgent.
*Roger Stone’s Arrest Is the Signal for Congress to Act*
Robert Mueller is looking for crimes. It’s up to legislators to safeguard the country.

 9:08 AM ET



David Frum
Staff writer at _The Atlantic_




Jose Luis Magana / AP

The indictment of Roger Stone moves the Trump-Russia story forward—but leaves the country stuck in exactly the same place.

Stone has been indicted for obstruction, making false statements, and witness tampering, but here’s what he was lying and witness-tampering about: his repeated communications with WikiLeaks to further and enable Russia’s interference in the 2016 campaign. On the basis of the indictment, it appears that the Trump campaign had advance knowledge that the October WikiLeaks dump was coming—and what its contents might approximately include. Via Stone, the Trump campaign coordinated messaging with WikiLeaks. Stone’s link to WikiLeaks told him, “Would not hurt to start suggesting HRC old, memory bad, has stroke, neither he nor she well. I expect that much of next dump focus …”

But here’s how we’re stuck. We are now entering the third year of a presidency tainted from its start by clandestine assistance from Russia. That corrupt connection overhangs every strategic decision: the president’s repeated threats to quit NATO; his refusal to implement congressionally voted sanctions to punish Russia for nerve-agent poisonings in the U.K. Only 31 percent of Americans feel confident that Russian President Vladimir Putin is not blackmailing their own president, according to the latest Marist poll.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...ger-stone-indictment-demands-congress/581272/


----------



## bellenuit (26 January 2019)

basilio said:


> “Would not hurt to start suggesting HRC old, memory bad, has stroke, neither he nor she well. I expect that much of next dump focus …”




And right on cue, Fox News, particularly Hannity but many other Fox commentators, started pushing that suggestion. Interviewing doctors who claimed that from looking at her on TV they could see she had epilepsy. Claiming her GP's formal diagnosis that she had a bout of pneumonia, which was the cause of her unsteadiness, was a fabrication.


----------



## bigdog (26 January 2019)

The breakthrough came as LaGuardia Airport in New York and Newark Liberty International Airport in New Jersey both experienced at least 90-minute delays in takeoffs Friday because of the shutdown. And the world's busiest airport — Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport — was experiencing long security wait times, a warning sign the week before it expects 150,000 out-of-town visitors for the Super Bowl.

https://www.usnews.com/news/busines...ends-shutdown-signs-bill-to-reopen-government

*Trump Ends Shutdown, Signs Bill to Reopen Government*
Trump agrees to reopen government for 3 weeks without money for his border wall.
Jan. 26, 2019, at 1:16 a.m. 

WASHINGTON (AP) — Submitting to mounting pressure, President Donald Trump has signed a bill to reopen the government for three weeks, backing down from his demand that Congress give him money for his border wall before federal agencies go back to work.

Standing alone in the Rose Garden Friday, Trump said he would sign legislation funding shuttered agencies until Feb. 15 and try again to persuade lawmakers to finance his long-sought wall. The deal he reached with congressional leaders contains no new money for the wall but ends the longest shutdown in U.S. history.

First the Senate, then the House swiftly and unanimously approved the deal. Late Friday, Trump signed it into law. The administration asked federal department heads to reopen offices in a "prompt and orderly manner" and said furloughed employees can return to work.

Trump's retreat came in the 35th day of the partial shutdown as intensifying delays at the nation's airports and another missed payday for hundreds of thousands of federal workers brought new urgency to efforts to resolve the standoff.

"This was in no way a concession," Trump said in a tweet late Friday, fending off critics who wanted him to keep fighting. "It was taking care of millions of people who were getting badly hurt by the Shutdown with the understanding that in 21 days, if no deal is done, it's off to the races!"

The shutdown ended as Democratic leaders had insisted it must — reopen the government first, then talk border security.

"The president thought he could crack Democrats, and he didn't, and I hope it's a lesson for him," said the Senate Democratic leader, Chuck Schumer. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said of her members: "Our unity is our power. And that is what maybe the president underestimated."

Trump still made the case for a border wall and maintained he might again shut down the government over it. Yet, as negotiations restart, Trump enters them from a weakened position. A strong majority of Americans blamed him for the standoff and rejected his arguments for a border wall, recent polls show.

"If we don't get a fair deal from Congress, the government will either shut down on Feb. 15, again, or I will use the powers afforded to me under the laws and Constitution of the United States to address this emergency," Trump said.

The president has said he could declare a national emergency to fund the border wall unilaterally if Congress doesn't provide the money. Such a move would almost certainly face legal hurdles.

As part of the deal with congressional leaders, a bipartisan committee of House and Senate lawmakers was being formed to consider border spending as part of the legislative process in the weeks ahead.

"They are willing to put partisanship aside, I think, and put the security of the American people first," Trump said. He asserted that a "barrier or walls will be an important part of the solution."

The deal includes back pay for some 800,000 federal workers who have gone without paychecks. The Trump administration promises to pay them as soon as possible.

Also expected is a new date for the president to deliver his State of the Union address, postponed during the shutdown. But it will not be Jan. 29 as once planned, according to a person familiar with the planning but unauthorized to discuss it.

As border talks resume, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said he hopes there will be "good-faith negotiations over the next three weeks to try to resolve our differences."

Schumer said that while Democrats oppose the wall money, they agree on other ways to secure the border "and that bodes well for coming to an eventual agreement."

In striking the accord, Trump risks backlash from conservatives who pushed him to keep fighting for the wall. Some lashed out Friday for his having yielded, for now, on his signature campaign promise.

Conservative commentator Ann Coulter suggested on Twitter that she views Trump as "the biggest wimp" to serve as president.

Money for the wall is not at all guaranteed, as Democrats have held united against building a structure as Trump once envisioned, preferring other types of border technology. Asked about Trump's wall, Pelosi, who has said repeatedly she won't approve money for it, said: "Have I not been clear? No, I have been very clear."

Within the White House, there was broad recognition among Trump's aides that the shutdown pressure was growing, and they couldn't keep the standoff going indefinitely. The president's approval numbers had suffered during the impasse. Overnight and Friday, several Republicans were calling on him openly, and in private, to reopen the government.

The breakthrough came as LaGuardia Airport in New York and Newark Liberty International Airport in New Jersey both experienced at least 90-minute delays in takeoffs Friday because of the shutdown. And the world's busiest airport — Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport — was experiencing long security wait times, a warning sign the week before it expects 150,000 out-of-town visitors for the Super Bowl.

The standoff became so severe that, as the Senate opened with prayer, Chaplain Barry Black called on high powers in the "hour of national turmoil" to help senators do "what is right."

Senators were talking with increased urgency after Thursday's defeat of competing proposals from Trump and the Democrats. Bipartisan talks provided a glimmer of hope Friday that some agreement could be reached. But several senators said they didn't know what to expect as they arrived to watch the president's televised address from their lunchroom off the Senate floor.

The Senate first rejected a Republican plan Thursday reopening the government through September and giving Trump the $5.7 billion he's demanded for building segments of that wall, a project that he'd long promised Mexico would finance. The 50-47 vote for the measure fell 10 shy of the 60 votes needed to succeed.

Minutes later, senators voted 52-44 for a Democratic alternative that sought to open padlocked agencies through Feb. 8 with no wall money. That was eight votes short. But it earned more support than Trump's plan, even though Republicans control the chamber 53-47. It was aimed at giving bargainers time to seek an accord while getting paychecks to government workers who are either working without pay or being forced to stay home.

Contributing to the pressure on lawmakers to find a solution was the harsh reality confronting many of the federal workers, who on Friday faced a second two-week payday with no paychecks.

Throughout, the two sides issued mutually exclusive demands that have blocked negotiations from even starting: Trump had refused to reopen government until Congress gave him the wall money, and congressional Democrats had rejected bargaining until he reopened government.


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## basilio (26 January 2019)

Watched Fox news on their take of the Roger Stone arrest and indictments.

They were "horrified" at the huge early morning arrest squad
They were certain this was still a witch hunt and that all the charges were fabricated.
That is the the US..


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## basilio (30 January 2019)

Nice little encapsulation of the last 24 hours of the Trump administration..
Rest aren't bad either

* Seth Meyers: 'It’s not often that a single event sums up an entire presidency' *
Late-night hosts celebrated the shutdown of the government shutdown and examined Trump associate Roger Stone’s arrest

Adrian Horton

Wed 30 Jan 2019 05.19 AEDT   Last modified on Wed 30 Jan 2019 06.14 AEDT




Seth Meyers: ‘The only way that could’ve been more humiliating for Trump is if Robert Mueller celebrated by eating a Happy Meal at McDonald’s on a date with Stormy Daniels.’ Photograph: YouTube
Late-night hosts interpreted the end of the government shutdown and the arrest of Roger Stone.

*Seth Meyers: ‘Eating a Happy Meal on a date with Stormy Daniels’*
On Monday’s Late Night, Seth Meyers addressed what he saw as a particularly symbolic weekend of news for the White House. Between Trump’s capitulation on the government shutdown and the arrest of his close associate Roger Stone, Meyers said, “it’s not often that a single event sums up an entire presidency but on Friday, we got one that came pretty close.
 * 
“Remember, Trump brags that he only hires the best people, calls the Russian investigation a hoax, calls CNN fake news, and his government shutdown left FBI agents without pay,” Meyers explained. “So it was especially ironic when one of Trump’s closest associates was arrested by unpaid FBI agents working for the special counsel on the Russia investigation, and the whole thing was caught on tape by CNN.*

*“The only way that could’ve been more humiliating for Trump,” Meyers said, “is if Robert Mueller celebrated by eating a Happy Meal at McDonald’s on a date with Stormy Daniels.”*

The indictment against Stone may seem damning – he allegedly told a radio host that he should “pull a Frank Pentangeli”, in reference to a Godfather character who lied to a congressional committee – but Stone left his house in high spirits, imitating his hero Richard Nixon’s victory pose.

“Now you might be thinking to yourself: didn’t Nixon resign in disgrace? Maybe that’s not the best pose to show your innocence? But Stone doesn’t remember that, because he spent most of the 70s traveling around in a glass elevator that he stole from Willy Wonka,” Meyers joked about Stone and his off-kilter, retro-formal outfits.

*“This guy was basically begging to be arrested,” Meyers said. “I mean, he imitates Richard Nixon, he quotes from The Godfather, and he dresses like Hannibal Lecter.”*
https://www.theguardian.com/culture...stephen-colbert-trevor-noah-roger-stone-trump


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## bigdog (1 February 2019)

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/2019/01/29/harley-davidson-profit/38973381/

*Harley-Davidson profit erased by Trump tariffs*
Gabrielle Coppola, Bloomberg News Published 4:02 p.m. ET Jan. 29, 2019

Harley-Davidson Inc. barely broke even in the last quarter of a year in which the struggling American icon got caught up in President Donald Trump’s trade wars. The motorcycle maker’s shares plunged the most in a year.

Earnings per share on a GAAP basis were zero in the fourth quarter, the Milwaukee-based manufacturer said in a statement Tuesday. Excluding restructuring and tariff costs, profit was 17 cents a share, missing analysts’ average estimate for 29 cents.

Trump attacked Harley last year after it announced plans to shift some U.S. production overseas to sidestep levies imposed by the European Union. But the motorcycle maker has more than tariffs and angry tweets to blame for its performance. U.S. retail sales tumbled 10 percent in the three months ended in December, the eighth consecutive quarterly drop. Chief Executive Officer Matt Levatich is having trouble attracting younger riders and plans to offer cheaper bikes and sell more clothing and gear — including on Amazon — to reach new customers.

“2019 we expect to be another difficult year until major initiatives like More Roads start kicking in,” Levatich said in an interview, referring to a turnaround plan unveiled last year. “Everything is angled at that core issue of building riders in the U.S. and leveraging growth opportunities we have in the near term and internationally.”

Harley shares fell as much as 9.5 percent — the biggest intraday drop since Jan. 30 — and were down 7.6 percent to $33.83 as of 9:48 a.m. in New York. The stock plunged 33 percent last year.

Retail demand dropped in Europe and Asia, sending worldwide sales down 6.7 percent last quarter. Levatich’s plans call for half of sales to come from outside the U.S. by 2027, up from about 42 percent last year.

Harley has been investing to expand a new plant in Thailand to boost exports and produce the majority of motorcycles sold in the EU and China by the end of this year, Levatich said in the interview. The company hadn’t previously specified where U.S. production would be shifted to avoid tariffs the EU implemented in retaliation for higher levies on steel and aluminum.

Trump said in August that he’d back a boycott of the company’s bikes for moving production out of America. Tariff costs of $100 million to $120 million this year will be eliminated in 2020, once the Thailand plant expansion is completed, executives said on an earnings call.

Levatich is introducing as many as five electric models, including lightweight, urban bikes to target growth in Europe and India. Analysts think demand for Harley’s first electric model, called LiveWire, will be limited because of its $29,799 price tag.

For 2019, Harley plans to ship between 217,000 and 220,000 motorcycles. The midpoint of that forecast would be the lowest shipments for the company since 2010.


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## bigdog (8 March 2019)

The "Tariff Man"

https://www.theage.com.au/business/...-all-the-ones-he-started-20190307-p512di.html

*Trump says trade wars are 'easy to win', but he's losing all the ones he started*

*By Stephen Bartholomeusz*
March 7, 2019 — 12.15pm

If, as Donald Trump has said, trade wars are good and easy to win, why is the US losing the wars it initiated and losing so bigly?

The destructive and pointless absurdity of the Trump administration’s aggressive trade policies showed up, quite predictably (to those outside the Trump administration) in a blow-out in the US trade deficit in 2018.

The deficit in goods of $US891.3 billion ($1.27 trillion) was the largest in US history. If the $US270 billion surplus in services (the element of trade that Trump usually ignores) were included it was, at $US621 billion, still the worst in a decade.

The "Tariff Man", who has described tariffs as "the greatest negotiating tool in the history of our country" and has said that "trade wars are good, and easy to win", created a benchmark for the success, or failure, of his trade policies. At this point, he’s failing.

To rub that point in, despite the tariffs on $US250 billion of China’s exports to the US, the deficit on the trade in goods with China was a record $US419 billion.

Despite the "victory" in the coercive negotiations with Canada and Mexico that led to the re-writing of what used to be the North American Free Trade agreement, there was a $US19.8 billion deficit with Canada and a $US81.5 billion deficit with Mexico – the biggest deficits in a decade.






The outcomes are undermining the administration’s stance, and Trump’s own rhetoric, that trade deficits reflect a zero sum game where economies with surpluses are winners and those with deficits losers; that America’s persistent deficits were the result of foreigners unfairly taking advantage of the US.

The blow-out in the deficit was both predictable and understandable and underscores how limited the "Make America Great Again" and "America First" approach to trade is within complex global trading and financial systems.

There is some irony in the fact that Trump’s own policies – his $US1.5 trillion of tax cuts and the big increase in US budget deficits and borrowing requirements – have contributed to the increased deficit.

The US economy has been running hot at a time when, partly due to the trade conflicts, other major economies have been cooling. China, the world’s second-largest economy, has been slowing. The European Union is barely registering any growth.

The relative strength of the US economy means that it consumes more and imports more goods even as consumers and companies in China and Europe and the economies exposed to them consume less and import less.

The growth in the US and the higher interest rates that have accompanied it also mean the US dollar has strengthened against its major trading partners, making imports cheaper and exports dearer.

That has been exacerbated by the tariffs, which have not only been blunted by the currency relativities but have been largely absorbed by US companies or passed on to US consumers in the form of higher prices.

There are also some broader macro-economic influences at play, not the least of which is a weak savings rate in the US as well as the role the US dollar plays as the world’s reserve currency.

The US has to print dollars to fund its deficits and, with the US dollar the global currency for foreign exchange transactions and the dominant currency for global central bank reserves, the rest of the world needs to exchange goods and services for US dollars.

While that reserve currency status does handicap the competitiveness of US exports, it lowers borrowing costs for US borrowers and enables Americans to enjoy a higher standard of living than they would if there were no trade deficits.

Trump has said he happens to be a tariff person because he’s "a smart person", but seeing trade in the narrow and binary fashion of the administration isn’t smart and hasn’t been regarded as smart since the 1930s.

While there have been particular winners and losers within individual economies from free trade and globalisation, overall, both developing and developed economies have benefited from free trade.

While Trump appears to be on the verge of a deal with China that will see it make some trade concessions and agree to buy significantly more US agricultural product and energy, which might be regarded as a win, increased Chinese purchases of US products will essentially cause a redirection of trade – and the trade deficits – unless the US is able to greatly expand capacity and improve its export competitiveness. A reduced deficit with China would be offset by increased deficits elsewhere.

Trump appears to be on the verge of doubling down on his tariff strategy, with reports that the US Commerce Department has, conveniently, determined that imports of European autos represent a threat to US national security, the same pretext the administration used to slap tariffs on Canada’s aluminium exports.

Trump wants to use the threat of auto tariffs as leverage to force the EU to open up its agricultural product markets, which is almost inconceivable. Auto tariffs would provoke retaliatory actions by the EU, with unpleasant consequences for both sides and the global economy.

Given the deteriorating trends in the US trade equations, for such smart people, the administration seems to be demonstrating it is peopled with slow learners.


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## Stock Jock (9 March 2019)




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## basilio (19 March 2019)

*I wonder how he does it ?*

The real problem with witch hunts around the current Liar/Thief/Racist in Chief is that so many people want  a piece of him. Is there enough to go around I ask ? 

*These are the four different types of investigations looking at Donald Trump*
By Peter Marsh and Emily Olson
Updated about 4 hours ago

*Related Story:* Donald Trump 'not above the law', New York court says
*Related Story:* Paul Manafort jailed for 7.5 years for conspiracy against US and fraud
*Related Story:* Nancy Pelosi says Donald Trump isn't worth impeaching. Here's why she might be right
US President Donald Trump is facing so many investigations it can be hard to keep track.

Federal, state and congressional forces are looking into every corner of his personal, political and business life, generating so much news that one probe can blur into the next.

Below, we break down who's behind the key investigations, what they're digging into and what could happen if they find something.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-19/all-the-investigations-into-donald-trump/10899714


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## explod (19 March 2019)

It's interesting to say the least.  Having made a point of studying the inner workings of the FBI over many years which of course soon ebbed into the inner US administration, I've concluded that Trump is no more corrupt than most of the Presidents since Nixon.

However with Trump, like a car salesman, he's right up front.  The big one of course is that the only one able to manufacture the sophisticated steel girders for his wall is a Russian in Russia.  If we'd had Clinton of course the behind the scene support of ISIS would have been ramped up more for Middle East oil.  The wall is not really killing people.


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## bigdog (7 May 2019)

https://www.usnews.com/news/busines...says-higher-tariffs-on-china-to-hit-on-friday

*The Latest: US Says Higher Tariffs on China to Hit on Friday*
The Latest: US says higher tariffs on China will take effect Friday; trade talks to resume Thursday.
By Associated Press, Wire Service Content May 6, 2019, at 5:27 p.m.

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Latest on the U.S.-China trade talks (all times local):

5:15 p.m.

U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer says the higher tariffs on China that President Donald Trump threatened over the weekend will take effect at 12:01 a.m. Eastern time Friday.

Lighthizer adds that trade negotiations with the Chinese will resume on Thursday in Washington.

In a briefing with reporters, Lighthizer accused Beijing of "reneging on prior commitments" after 10 rounds of high-stakes negotiations over China's aggressive drive to supplant American technological dominance.

https://www.theage.com.au/business/...ge_busnews_am&instance=2019-05-06--20-42--UTC

*Trump the 'Tariff Man' returns to threaten markets, risking full scale trade war*





*By Stephen Bartholomeusz*
May 6, 2019 — 3.00pm

The return of the Tariff Man and his threats to escalate the trade conflict with China even as it appeared to be close to a resolution threatens, at face value, to undermine markets and growth in the global economy.

It needs qualification because who, other than Donald Trump, could possibly know why he chose, at such a delicate moment in trade negotiations, to canvass raising the rate on $US200 billion of China’s exports to the US from 10 per cent to 25 per cent, adding another $US325 billion of extra goods to the $US250 billion already attracting the duties.

The threat may be a (very) crude negotiating tactic from the great deal-maker, aimed at coercing the Chinese into making concessions they otherwise might not proffer as the final round of negotiations on a trade deal gets underway in Washington this week.

Or, given that the Chinese appear to have decided that there are some key US demands that are non-negotiable, perhaps it is simply a way of Trump signalling his toughness so that he can characterise a less-than-optimal deal (from the administration’s perspective) as a triumph.

A concern that Trump might be serious saw the Australian sharemarket open weaker. Asian markets also tumbled on Monday as investors digested the news, with the Hang Seng down 2.8 per cent and the Shanghai Composite down 3.7 per cent.

The US futures markets are signalling a sell-off when its equities markets open overnight, with contracts on the S&P 500 and Dow Jones indices foreshadowing a 2 per cent fall.

The difficulty in trying to determine whether the Trump tweets on Sunday are just bluff and bluster or something with more substance is that, once again, the US president has betrayed an unsettling lack of understanding of the tariffs he threaten to impose.

"These payments (the tariffs) are partially responsible for our great economic results," he said. He’s previously talked about the billions of dollars the Chinese have been paying into the US Treasury’s coffers.

In fact it is the US importers who pay the tariffs, raising costs for US companies and consumers. An analysis of the trade confrontation by the New York Federal Reserve and Princeton and Columbia universities estimated that the existing tariffs were costing US consumers $US1.4 billion ($2 billion) a month, or an annualised $US16.8 billion.

Trump’s economic illiteracy means it is quite feasible he doesn’t understand that the threat of raising the existing tariffs – from Friday – and adding another tariff on a further $US325 billion of China’s exports "shortly" would be mutually destructive.

It would really hurt China but it would also have an adverse impact on the US and the rest of the world, especially Australia.

If he saw it as a negotiating tactic, then it was an unsophisticated and unnecessary one.

The threat of an increase in the rate of the existing tariffs and the extension of their coverage to the rest of China’s exports to the US has been implicit ever since the US initiated the conflict. It is what brought China to the negotiating table.

It wasn’t necessary or useful to make that threat explicit just as China’s Vice-Premier, Liu He and more than 100 Chinese officials arrive in Washington for the final round of talks with their US counterparts. In a dramatic move late on Monday, China said it was considering delaying the talks.

It has been apparent for some time that, while China is prepared to make some concessions to the US demands, there are some non-negotiables.

It is prepared to buy more US agricultural products and LNG, open up some markets and agree not to force, directly or indirectly, US companies to provide access to their intellectual property. It isn’t however, prepared to abandon its centrally-directed industry policies and the state subsidies that are inherent in them.

Another major sticking point has been the US demand that the existing tariffs remain in place until China has complied with the terms of the deal, even once they have been scaled back, and that the US retain the right to unilaterally re-impose them for a perceived breach without China being able to retaliate.

Accepting such a one-sided enforcement mechanism would be humiliating for the Chinese and their president, Xi Jinping, with potential domestic political implications.

The best hope for the Chinese is that the weekend’s tweets were just Trump’s usual bluff and bluster to show how tough a negotiator he is; window-dressing for his base ahead of a deal that won’t actually live up to his promises.

That would be an outcome similar to Trump’s renegotiation of the North American Free Trade Agreement, or NAFTA.

That deal, which Republicans in Congress are threating to block unless Trump drops his cherished tariffs on steel and aluminium imports, essentially rebadged NAFTA, after some minor tinkering, as the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement (USMCA).

If, however, Trump is serious and China isn’t prepared to kowtow to his threats and concede on all the major issues the administration regards as important, we’ll have a full-scale trade war between the US and China, one where China’s ability to respond is limited by the reality that it imports a lot less from the US - $US120 billion last year – than the $US540 billion of US imports from China.


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## basilio (7 May 2019)

Democracy in US :Endgame . Bill Mahers take on Trump amnd Barr trying to blow off the Congress.


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## basilio (7 May 2019)

Bill was also very unkind to Mueller.  Far too much of the Boy Scout and not enough balls to call out Donald Trumps obstruction for what it was.

*Crime and No Punishment.*


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## basilio (8 May 2019)

The past and current obstruction of justice by Donald Trump is being called out by those (in the Republican Party  !) who held President Clinton to account for his behavior over the Monica Lewinsky affair.
 
*Trump Fails the Betty Currie Test*


*Twenty years ago, I held President Clinton accountable. That’s why I joined hundreds of prosecutors to say that Trump has obstructed justice.*

 12:21 PM ET
Paul Rosenzweig
Senior fellow at the R Street Institute and a principal at Red Branch Consulting




Ralph Waldo Emerson once famously said that “a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.” If so, then as a lawyer committed to the rule of law, I confess to having a little mind, though I like to think my consistency is not foolish.

*Earlier this week, I signed a letter (along with a growing number—now more than 600—of other former federal prosecutors) expressing the view that the facts recounted in Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report to Attorney General William Barr were in many cases (the letter lists three) sufficient to have warranted criminal charges against President Donald Trump for obstruction of justice. For me, the question was one of intellectual consistency. Having held President Bill Clinton to this standard 20 years ago, I could not, in good conscience, decline to apply the same standard to President Trump.*
Call it, if you will, the Betty Currie test.
Currie was Clinton’s personal secretary. (For _The West Wing_ fans, she was his Mrs. Landingham.) And Clinton, of course, was suspected of having had a sexual relationship with one of his interns, Monica Lewinsky.

On the day after he first became aware that his relationship with Lewinsky was under scrutiny, Clinton called Currie into work (it was a Sunday). And when she arrived, he said to her, “There are several things you may want to know,” and then proceeded to make several statements, in the form of “questions” to Currie. Referring to Lewinsky, Clinton said:


“You were always there when she was there, right? We were never really alone.”
“You could see and hear everything.”
“Monica came on to me, and I never touched her, right?”
Viewing this evidence, Independent Counsel Ken Starr (for whom I then worked) told Congress that there was “substantial and credible” information that the president had endeavored to obstruct justice by attempting to influence the testimony of Currie. Though the president testified that his interaction with Currie was an attempt to refresh his own memory, we had no problem concluding that his explanation was not plausible. We concluded that the most reasonable inference was that he was attempting to enlist Currie to testify falsely about the true nature of his relationship with Lewinsky.

This vignette from the investigation of Clinton illuminates my conclusions today and is instructive for a number of reasons.

First, some, such as Barr, have argued that the obstruction case against Trump is weak because there was no underlying criminal behavior. If, they argue, there was no criminal conspiracy in the contacts between the Trump campaign and Russians, then there is no obstruction in covering up the noncrime.

While it is true that the absence of an underlying crime makes proving a corrupt motive harder for a prosecutor, it is absolutely clear under the law that one can obstruct justice out of other motives, such as fear of embarrassment or political condemnation.

And that’s exactly what happened with Clinton—his underlying actions involved a sexual relationship with an intern that was, by itself, exceedingly unsavory, but it wasn’t criminal. I was of the view then, and remain of the view now, that this should not matter. Quite the contrary: Respect for the rule of law means respect for, and adherence to, the processes of law. It means not lying and not suborning others to lie for you. And that obligation falls, in my judgment, even more strongly on the president, who takes an oath to uphold the law.

And so, if Clinton should have been held to account for trying to get Currie to lie for him about Lewinsky, then, by the same logic, Trump must be held to account for (to take but one example from the Mueller report) asking his White House counsel, Don McGahn, to lie for him about Trump’s intent to fire Mueller. It doesn’t matter that Trump was asking McGahn to lie because of his political fears, and it doesn’t matter that the ultimate issue of Russian electoral interference never matured into a criminal charge against the Trump campaign.

Second, the comparison is telling in another way. Say what you will about the investigation of Russia’s connection to the Trump campaign; there can be no doubt at all—none whatsoever—that the possibility of Russian interference in our election system is a matter of grave significance to our democratic institutions. Far more so than, say, the president’s sexual activities. I never accepted the argument that “lying about sex” isn’t a crime—but even if I did, I would not accept the argument that “lying about an investigation of Russian electoral interference” isn’t a crime. If only for comparative reasons, anyone who supported obstruction charges in the Clinton era must acknowledge the greater salience of the issues at the core of this Trump-era investigation.


Finally, the Clinton story also tells us that another of Trump’s defenses is likewise meritless. Some have said that his effort to obstruct justice isn’t criminal, because he didn’t succeed. McGahn, for example, refused to create a false record and refused to lie for him.

But again, the same is equally true of the Clinton investigation. We know that Clinton tried to persuade Currie to lie because, ultimately, Currie told us that story in her personal testimony. The fact that she didn’t follow his lead (at least not fully) does not excuse the effort. And today we know about the effort to suborn McGahn’s false testimony because McGahn has told us of it. If Clinton’s lack of success was no defense, then Trump’s should not be either.

I could go on. In the end, though, the comparison to Clinton’s investigation and impeachment does Trump no favors. If you continue to think that Clinton was derelict in his actions, violative of his oath of office, and deserving of condemnation for his criminal activity, as I do, you can say no less about Trump.

Perhaps that consistency means I have a “little mind.” I prefer to think that I have the courage of my convictions, and I’m honored to join others who have served the American public in saying what I think. President Clinton failed the Betty Currie test; so has President Trump.

Paul Rosenzweig is a senior fellow at the R Street Institute and a principal at Red Branch Consulting. Twenty years ago he served as a Senior Counsel in the investigation of President Clinton.
Our History
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/05/i-worked-ken-starr-and-i-signed-doj-letter/588907/


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## kahuna1 (8 May 2019)

_*"More than 400 former federal prosecutors have signed a new letter claiming that President Donald Trump’s interference in the Russia investigation, as described by special counsel Robert Mueller’s report, should have led to “multiple felony charges for obstruction of justice.” 

The letter, circulated by the anti-Trump group Protect Democracy and first reported on by the Washington Post’s Matt Zapotosky, is pretty brutal. According to the former Justice Department officials, Trump’s actions as detailed by the Mueller report, which ranged from interference with Mueller’s attempts to acquire cooperating witnesses to an attempt to fire Mueller, constitute severe inference with the federal inquiry. In fact, they say, the question of whether there’s enough evidence to charge Trump isn’t even a particularly tough call.

 “All of this conduct — trying to control and impede the investigation against the President by leveraging his authority over others — is similar to conduct we have seen charged against other public officials and people in powerful positions,” the letter’s text says. “To look at these facts and say that a prosecutor could not probably sustain a conviction for obstruction of justice — the standard set out in Principles of Federal Prosecution — runs counter to logic and our experience.”*_

This is from both sides .... not just Republicans but democrats as well. 

This does NOT cover the NEW obstructions .... from Barr refusing to testify, to documents being shredded to Treasury Secretary refusing to provide tax returns ... despite the law,


The law ... has gone ... its unraveling ... the rule of law.


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## moXJO (8 May 2019)

kahuna1 said:


> _*"More than 400 former federal prosecutors have signed a new letter claiming that President Donald Trump’s interference in the Russia investigation, as described by special counsel Robert Mueller’s report, should have led to “multiple felony charges for obstruction of justice.”
> 
> The letter, circulated by the anti-Trump group Protect Democracy and first reported on by the Washington Post’s Matt Zapotosky, is pretty brutal. According to the former Justice Department officials, Trump’s actions as detailed by the Mueller report, which ranged from interference with Mueller’s attempts to acquire cooperating witnesses to an attempt to fire Mueller, constitute severe inference with the federal inquiry. In fact, they say, the question of whether there’s enough evidence to charge Trump isn’t even a particularly tough call.
> 
> ...



Dems started impeachment yet? 

All just hot air before the election otherwise.


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## Sdajii (8 May 2019)

basilio said:


> The past and current obstruction of justice by Donald Trump is being called out by those (in the Republican Party  !) who held President Clinton to account for his behavior over the Monica Lewinsky affair.
> 
> *Trump Fails the Betty Currie Test*
> 
> ...




Take a deep breath.

This behaviour, trying to demonstrate that one is innocent, is also what a genuinely innocent person does.

Your extremely long argument seems to boil down to "Clinton was guilty. He tried to get someone to say he was innocent, but he was guilty, therefore, anyone who tries to do this is guilty!"

Innocent people try to prove their innocence too. If they have a person who can genuinely prove it, they will often try to get that person's help. The fact that Clinton did this dishonestly doesn't mean that other people can't do it honestly, it just means Clinton attempted to fabricate an image of innocence. Someone else's may be genuine.


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## basilio (9 May 2019)

Sdajii said:


> Take a deep breath.
> 
> This behaviour, trying to demonstrate that one is innocent, is also what a genuinely innocent person does.
> 
> ...




Please reread the post Sdajii
1) It is not my argument. I was quoting an article from the The Atlantic. (I meant to just  post the first coupe of paragraphs but accidentally grabbed the lot..)

2) The legal argument is presented by the person who ran exactly the same  obstruction legal arguments against Bill Clinton  He sees no difference in the cases.

3) 600 plus other Federal  prosecutors  agreed that the evidence presented  in the Mueller report would have been sufficient for them to lay obstruction of justice charges in any other situation.

4) Obstruction of legal processes by attempting to intimidate,  bribe or persuade witnesses  to change their story is a crime. Attempting to stop legal investigations is a crime.  Trying to falsify  evidence of attempting to stop legal investigations is a crime. Offering pardons to people facing investigations is a crime.  These are some (not all)  of the actions attributed to Donald Trump in the Mueller report.
This is why the 600 plus Federal Prosecutors believe Congress has a constitutional duty to examine Muller report and establish whether the actions outlined are grounds for impeachment on misconduct.


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## bigdog (10 May 2019)

*The Americans are paying for the tariffs (taxes)
DUMP TRUMP*

https://www.usnews.com/news/busines...rease-on-200b-of-chinese-imports-takes-effect

*US Hikes Tariffs on Chinese Goods, Beijing Vows Retaliation*
Trump's tariff hike on Chinese imports takes effect, Beijing says it will retaliate.
By Associated Press, Wire Service Content May 10, 2019, at 1:25 a.m. 

By JOE McDONALD, AP Business Writer

BEIJING (AP) — President Donald Trump's latest tariff hike on Chinese goods took effect Friday and Beijing said it would retaliate, escalating a battle over China's technology ambitions and other trade strains.

The Trump administration raised duties on $200 billion of Chinese imports from 10% to 25%. China's Commerce Ministry said would take "necessary countermeasures" but gave no details.

The increase went ahead after American and Chinese negotiators began more talks in Washington aimed at ending a dispute that has disrupted billions of dollars in trade and shaken global financial markets.

American officials accuse Beijing of backtracking on commitments made in earlier rounds of negotiations.

The talks were due to resume Friday after wrapping up with no word on progress.

"China deeply regrets that it will have to take necessary countermeasures," said a Commerce Ministry statement.

Shares in Asia were mixed Friday amid renewed investor jitters about the possible impact of the trade battle on global economic growth.

The latest increase extends 25% U.S. duties to a total of $250 billion of Chinese imports. Trump said Sunday he might extend penalties to all Chinese goods shipped to the United States.

Beijing retaliated for previous tariff hikes by raising duties on $110 billion of American imports. But regulators are running out of U.S. goods for penalties due to the lopsided trade balance.

Chinese officials have targeted operations of American companies in China by slowing customs clearance for their goods and stepping up regulatory scrutiny that can hamper operations.

The higher U.S. import taxes don't apply to Chinese goods shipped before Friday. By sea, shipments across the Pacific take about three weeks, which gives negotiators a few more days to reach a settlement before importers may have to pay the increased charges.

The negotiators met Thursday evening. Then, after briefing Trump on the negotiations, U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer and Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin dined with the leader of the Chinese delegation, Vice Premier Liu He.

Liu, speaking to Chinese state TV on his arrival in Washington, said he "came with sincerity." He appealed to Washington to avoid more tariff hikes, saying they are "not a solution" and would harm the world.

"We should not hurt innocent people," Liu told CCTV.

At the White House, Trump said he received "a beautiful letter" from Chinese President Xi Jinping and would "probably speak to him by phone."

The two countries are sparring over U.S. allegations that China steals technology and pressures American companies into handing over trade secrets, part of an aggressive campaign to turn Chinese companies into world leaders in robotics, electric cars and other advanced industries.

This week's setback was unexpected. Through late last week, Trump administration officials were suggesting that negotiators were making steady progress.

U.S. officials say they got an inkling of China's second thoughts about prior commitments in talks last week in Beijing but the backsliding became more apparent in exchanges over the weekend. They wouldn't identify the specific issues involved.

A sticking point is U.S. insistence on an enforcement mechanism with penalties to ensure Beijing lives up to its commitments. American officials say China has repeatedly broken past promises.

China wants tariffs lifted as soon as an agreement is reached, while U.S. officials want to keep them as leverage to ensure compliance.

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau urged Trump in a phone call to press China to release two Canadians who have been held for five months.

The men were detained in apparent retaliation after Canada arrested an executive of Chinese tech giant Huawei on U.S. charges of bank fraud.


----------



## basilio (13 May 2019)

When all else fails look for a woman to do the job....


----------



## bigdog (5 June 2019)

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/b...kers-see-wiped-trumps-mexico-threat/39534669/

*Carmakers see $17B wiped out by Trump’s Mexico threat*
Ma Jie and Maiko Takahashi, Bloomberg Published 8:36 p.m. ET May 31, 2019 

The automotive industry is bearing the brunt of trade-war crossfire again as U.S. President Donald Trump threatens to slap tariffs of as much as 25% on goods from Mexico, a key production hub for carmakers from Mazda Motor Corp. to General Motors Co.

Mexico is the largest source of U.S. vehicle and auto-parts imports, meaning tariffs would increase costs for virtually every major manufacturer. In late night tweets Thursday, Trump warned tariffs would start at 5% on June 10 and increase to 25% on Oct. 1 unless Mexico stops immigrants from entering the U.S. illegally.

The world’s largest automakers – including Ford Motor Co., Toyota Motor Corp. and Volkswagen AG – lost $17 billion in market value in Friday trading. The Bloomberg World Auto Manufacturers Index slumped as much as 2.2% and ended the week at the lowest since July 2016.

“Tariffs will mean higher price tags on cars for sales in U.S. and that will hit sales,” said Seiichi Miura, an analyst at Mitsubishi UFJ Morgan Stanley. “While the impact will differ for each carmaker, all of them have moved into Mexico.”

GM, Ford and Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV shares all plunged at least 4% intraday in New York trading. Critical models imported from Mexico include GM’s Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra and Fiat Chrysler’s Ram full-size pickups – the industry’s most profitable vehicles; Toyota’s Tacoma mid-size trucks; and sedans including Nissan Motor Co.’s Versa and Sentra, Volkswagen’s Jetta and the Mazda3.

A 25% tariff would be worth $86.6 billion annually, which “could cripple the industry and cause major uncertainty,” Emmanuel Rosner, an auto analyst for Deutsche Bank, wrote in a report Friday.

Japan’s Toyota and South Korea’s Kia Motors Corp. declined more than their respective benchmark indexes. Shares of Mazda, which is particularly reliant on Mexico, fell to the lowest since 2013.

In Germany, BMW AG closed at the lowest since November 2012. The automaker is slated to open a plant in San Luis Potosi next week that will make 3-Series sedans for the U.S. market starting later this year. Mercedes-Benz maker Daimler AG manufactures heavy trucks, buses and parts in Mexico.

Canada’s Magna International Inc., which has 32 facilities and more than 29,000 employees in Mexico, slumped as much as 5.8% in Toronto. Sweden’s Dometic Group AB, which manufactures climate-control systems for trucks and recreational vehicles, fell as much as 6.5%. The company said in April it planned to build a second plant in Mexico, moving additional capacity there from China. Autoliv Inc., which has more than 14,000 employees in Mexico making steering wheels, seat belts and airbags, dropped as much as 7.8% in Stockholm.

The latest tariff threat highlights how automakers and their closely intertwined supply chains are among the biggest losers of escalating trade tensions. Given the scale and global nature of auto manufacturing today, the industry has often been in the middle of the crosshairs of Trump, who’s gone as far to say that imported cars represent a threat to U.S. national security.

*Export base*

Mazda’s Mexico factory last year made 183,266 cars. The company imports all vehicles it sells in the U.S., mostly from Japan and Mexico. It’s now building a multibillion dollar facility in Huntsville, Alabama, with Toyota.

Nissan has three plants in the country with a combined capacity of 850,000 vehicles annually. By comparison, Honda’s is 263,000, while Toyota’s is 200,000 units.

The tariffs would also impact South Korean automakers that make cars in Mexico. Kia exports about 80% to 90% of the 300,000 vehicles it makes a year at its Mexico plant to the U.S., according to SK Securities Co. analyst Kwon Soon-woo. Kia representatives couldn’t immediately comment.

Earlier in May, Trump concurred with the conclusions of his Commerce Department, which investigated imports of vehicles and auto parts and found they harm national security by having led to a declining market share for “American-owned” carmakers since the 1980s. That prompted Toyota to issue an unusually strong-worded statement denouncing the administration’s policies.

*Simmering concerns*

Well before that, however, Mazda and Toyota had expressed concern over the looming threat of tariffs. They were among the dozens of carmakers and parts suppliers that filed comments to the Commerce Department in an effort to push against potential tariffs almost a year ago.

Japan’s government has meanwhile tried to mount a charm offensive, seeking to forestall any retaliatory action against Japanese manufacturers and exporters. Prime Minister Shinzo Abe hosted Trump in Japan last week, making the president the first foreign head of state to meet new Emperor Naruhito. The four-day itinerary included a state dinner, golf, a Sumo wrestling match, a visit to warships and trade discussions.

“This news is further oil on the trade war fire and starts a new front with others (Japan) now thinking they could be next,” said Olivier d’Assier, APAC Head of Applied Research at Axioma. “The odds that Trump will target Japan next have clearly risen in their mind after today’s news.”


----------



## sptrawler (5 June 2019)

bigdog said:


> “Tariffs will mean higher price tags on cars for sales in U.S. and that will hit sales,” said Seiichi Miura, an analyst at Mitsubishi UFJ Morgan Stanley. “While the impact will differ for each carmaker, *all of them have moved into Mexico.*”



I guess a few of them will be relocating back to the U.S., rather than exploiting lower wages, at the cost of the U.S worker's jobs.


----------



## qldfrog (5 June 2019)

Price of cars will increase but;

Extra jobs for US workers and inflation will increase....
Sorry is that not what the rba is desperately aiming to achieve?
Ahh... the anti trump cabale...


----------



## bigdog (5 August 2019)

https://www.usnews.com/news/busines...asian-stock-tumble-after-china-lets-yuan-sink

*Stocks Slump as China Currency Move Escalates Trade Fears*
Global stocks fall sharply after China allows yuan to fall following Trump's latest trade threat.
By Associated Press, Wire Service Content Aug. 5, 2019, at 7:41 a.m.

By JOE McDONALD, AP Business Writer

BEIJING (AP) — Global shares fell sharply Monday after China let its currency to sink to an 11-year low against the dollar, fueling concern that Beijing is using the yuan as a weapon in an escalating tariff war with U.S. President Donald Trump.

Market benchmarks in London and Paris fell more than 2% in early trading while Tokyo closed down 1.7% and Hong Kong declined almost 3%. Frankfurt, Shanghai and Sydney also retreated.

Wall Street was also poised for a sharp downturn, with Dow and S&P futures down about 1.5%.

China's central bank allowed the yuan's exchange rate to sink below the politically sensitive level of seven per dollar. That level has no economic significance per se but might fuel trade tensions with the U.S. government, which complains a weak Chinese currency swells the country's exports and hurts foreign competitors.

"Markets will brace for trade tensions to boil," said Vishnua Varathan of Mizuho Bank in a report.

The People's Bank of China blamed the decline on "trade protectionism," a reference to Trump's tariff hikes in a fight over Beijing's trade surplus and technology policies. Trump rattled financial markets with a threat Thursday to raise duties on additional Chinese imports.

Beijing appears to have decided "the currency is now also considered part of the arsenal to be drawn upon," said Robert Carnell, analyst at bank ING.

London's FTSE 100 fell 2.2% to 7,247 and Frankfurt's DAX lost 1.8% to 11,661. France's CAC-40 declined 2.1% to 5,243.

Tokyo's Nikkei 225 fell to 20,720.29 and Hong Kong's Hang Seng declined 2.9% to 26,151.32. Seoul's Kospi was 2.6% lower at 1,946.98.

The Shanghai Composite Index dropped 1.6% to 2,821.50 and Sydney's S&P-ASX 200 retreated 1.9% to 6,640.30. India's Sensex lost 1.5% to 36,576.42.

Traders also were watching Hong Kong, a major trading center where airline flights and traffic were disrupted by protesters' calls for a general strike over complaints about a proposed extradition law and other grievances.

On Friday, the S&P 500 lost 0.7% and the Dow dropped 0.4%. The Nasdaq composite shed 1.3%.

Despite that, the major indexes are all up solidly this year, led by the Nasdaq's 20.6% gain. The S&P 500 is up nearly 17%.

Trade tension and uncertainty over the outlook for American interest rates have blotted out a better-than-expected corporate earnings results. Earnings for S&P 500 companies are on pace for a drop of 1% from a year ago, better than the 3% decline analysts expected.

ENERGY: Benchmark U.S. crude lost 52 cents to $55.14 per barrel in electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange. Brent crude, used to price international oils, shed 72 cents to $61.21 in London.

CURRENCY: The dollar dropped to 106.02 yen from Friday's 106.59 yen. The euro gained to $1.1173 from $1.1109.


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## bigdog (6 August 2019)

*Trump is escalating a trade war he isn't winning*

https://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2019-08-04/chinas-yuan-falls-below-7-to-us-dollar

*Lashing Back, China Lets Yuan Drop, Halts US Farm Purchases*
Lashing back against Trump's latest tariff threat, China lets yuan drop to 11-year low, suspends farm purchases.
By Associated Press, Wire Service Content Aug. 5, 2019, at 8:00 p.m.

By PAUL WISEMAN and JOE McDONALD, AP Business Writers

WASHINGTON (AP) — *China decided Monday to meet President Donald Trump's latest tariff threat with defiance, letting its currency drop to an 11-year low and halting purchases of U.S. farm products.*

The moves, which came four days after Trump threatened more taxes on Chinese imports, knocked stock markets worldwide into a tailspin. On Wall Street, the Dow Jones Industrial Average was down more than 850 points by mid-afternoon.

Earlier, stocks tumbled from Shanghai to London on fears the escalation in U.S.-China trade tension will drag down a global economy that is already weakening.

Raising worries that China will wield its currency as a weapon in a trade war, Beijing let the Chinese yuan weaken to the politically sensitive level of seven to the U.S. dollar for the first time since February 2008.

After financial markets closed Monday, the U.S. Treasury Department announced that it was labeling China a currency manipulator for the first time since 1994.

Also Monday, China's official Xinhua news agency reported that Chinese companies have stopped buying U.S. farm products — a direct shot at Trump supporters in rural America.

Together, the currency devaluation and suspension of farm purchases suggest that China has decided to stand tough, rather than cave in Trump's threats.

"The Chinese side won't submit to the US," tweeted Hu Xijin, editor-in-chief of China's hardline Global Times newspaper.

The weaker yuan makes Chinese exports less expensive in foreign markets. It also helps offset the impact of U.S. tariffs on Chinese products.

The Chinese currency hit 7.0391 to the dollar by late afternoon, making one yuan worth 14.2 cents. The level of seven to the dollar has no economic significance but carries significant symbolic weight.

"The thought of a currency war is crossing more than a few traders' minds," Stephen Innes of VM Markets said in a report.

Trump promptly took to Twitter to denounce the move as "currency manipulation." He added, "This is a major violation which will greatly weaken China over time."

China's central bank blamed the yuan's drop on "trade protectionism" — an apparent reference to Trump's threat last Thursday to impose tariffs Sept. 1 on the $300 billion in Chinese imports to the United States in addition to the $250 billion he's already targeted.

The U.S. and China are engaged in a bitter dispute over allegations that Beijing steals trade secrets and pressures foreign companies to hand over technology as part of an aggressive campaign to make Chinese companies world leaders in advanced technologies such as artificial intelligence and quantum computing.

The weakness of the yuan, also known as the renminbi, or "people's money," is among U.S. grievances against Beijing. American officials complain that a weak yuan gives Chinese exporters an unfair price edge in foreign markets and helps swell the massive U.S. trade deficit with China.

The U.S. Treasury Department declined in May to label China a currency manipulator but urged Beijing to take steps "to avoid a persistently weak currency" and warned that it would be watching closely.

China's central bank sets the exchange rate each morning and allows the yuan to fluctuate by 2% against the dollar during the day. The central bank can buy or sell currency — or order commercial banks to do so — to dampen price movements.

It appears "the currency is now also considered part of the arsenal to be drawn upon," Robert Carnell of ING said in a report. He said Monday's move might be part of "a concerted series of steps aimed at pushing back at the latest U.S. tariffs."

Until now, economists had expected the People's Bank of China, the Chinese central bank, to intervene and put a floor under the currency if it threated to breach the seven-to-the-dollar level.

A central bank statement Monday blamed "unilateralism and trade protectionism measures," a reference to Trump's tariff hikes. But it tried to play down the significance of "breaking seven."

"It is normal to rise and fall," the statement said. It promised to "maintain stable operation of the foreign exchange market."

Chinese leaders have promised to avoid "competitive devaluation" to boost exports by making them less expensive abroad — a pledge the central bank governor, Yi Gang, affirmed in March. But regulators are trying to make the state-controlled exchange rate more responsive to market forces, which are pulling the yuan lower, partly on fears Trump's tariffs will weaken the Chinese economy.

The yuan has lost 5% since February.

Globally, a weaker yuan might lead to more volatility in currency markets and pressure for the dollar to strengthen, Louis Kuijs of Oxford Economics said in a report. That would be "unwelcome in Washington," where Trump has threatened to weaken the dollar to boost exports.

A weaker dollar "would be bad news" for Europe and Japan, hurting demand for their exports at a time of cooling economic growth, Kuijs said.

The Chinese central bank tried to discourage speculation last August by imposing a requirement that traders post deposits for contracts to buy or sell yuan. That allows trading to continue but raises the cost.

Beijing imposed similar controls in October 2015 after a change in the exchange rate mechanism prompted markets to bet the yuan would fall. The currency temporarily steadied but fell the following year.

The Chinese are well aware of the pain the trade war is causing American farmers, a loyal part of Trump's political base. Their retaliatory tariffs on $110 billion in U.S. products targeted soybeans and other key agricultural products. To ease the pain in rural America, Trump has rolled out two packages of farm aid worth a combined $27 billion.

Monday's Xinhua report said that Beijing would "not rule out the possibility of levying additional tariffs" on U.S. farm imports. Xinhua said Trump's plan to tax another $300 billion in Chinese imports "seriously violated" a cease-fire agreed to in June by Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping.


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## 3 hound (2 July 2022)

Trump was definately a better president than Biden is.


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## PZ99 (3 July 2022)

Bull.


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## basilio (12 July 2022)

The public hearings of the evidence gathered by the January 6th committee will continue tomorrow.  The presentation will lay out the case for Donald Trump planning a conspiracy to overthrow the  November  Presidential election results to enable him to hold power.

Essentially a coup.

ABC gives an excellent  recap of the main points of the previous six public presentations.  

Donald Trump accused of a sprawling 'conspiracy': recapping the first six Capitol riot hearings​By Peta Fuller







First US Capitol riot hearing reveals explosive new details
Help keep family & friends informed by sharing this article


Graphic video showing police being attacked; bombshell testimony from inside the White House; first-hand accounts of *Donald Trump's *tactics: so far, the public Capitol riot hearings have produced stunning testimony. 

And tomorrow's seventh hearing (around 3am AEST) is set to deliver more detail on alleged plotting by right-wing groups, with former *Oath Keepers *spokesman *Jason Van Tatenhove* to appear as a witness.

Another planned hearing, which could happen within days*,* has been given prime-time billing.
*Adam Kinzinger,* a Republican congressman who sits on the committee, said they want to use that hearing to fill in the hours between the riot starting and Mr Trump tweeting they should "go home".


> "The rest of the country knew that there was an insurrection, the president obviously had to have known there was an insurrection, so where was he, what was he doing? It's a *very important hearing*," Mr Kinzinger said.












						Donald Trump has been accused of a sprawling 'conspiracy'. This is what's next in the Capitol riot hearings
					

There's been chilling testimony from the January 6 public hearings, revealing graphic video and bombshell testimony from inside the White House. With two more sessions in coming days, here's every hearing re-capped and what's coming next.




					www.abc.net.au


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## 3 hound (12 July 2022)

I hope this new blockbuster staged production is more entertaining than the last flop they made where the "bombshell testimony" was a low level aid that outright lied about what she said she heard a secret service agent said. The secret service agent was not called upon to confirm the "bombshell testimony" but he flatly denied what she "heard" happened and immediately demanded his denial be put under oath at risk of treason and perjury to himself....He was never questioned lol.

What a monumental flop the first movie was. The public showed their extreme disinterest by not tuning into the performance and all polls confirm the US population don't rate it as an issue that concerns them.


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## SirRumpole (12 July 2022)

3 hound said:


> I hope this new blockbuster staged production is more entertaining than the last flop they made where the "bombshell testimony" was a low level aid that outright lied about what she said she heard a secret service agent said. The secret service agent was not called upon to confirm the "bombshell testimony" but he flatly denied what she "heard" happened and immediately demanded his denial be put under oath at risk of treason and perjury to himself....He was never questioned lol.
> 
> What a monumental flop the first movie was. The public showed their extreme disinterest by not tuning into the performance and all polls confirm the US population don't rate it as an issue that concerns them.



Well the whole thing is about convicting Trump of a crime so he can never run for President again.

Which wouldn't be a bad thing imo. Trouble is one of his minions might.


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## 3 hound (12 July 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> Which wouldn't be a bad thing imo.




He achieved  a lot of good things in his term in the face of an extremely hostile and crazy media opposition and Dem hostility.

He bought more blacks and Latinos to support the Repubs than any other Prez.


His work in the middle east is one of the greatest breakthroughs and accomplishments in foreign policy in modern history since WWII. That alone is legitimately Nobel prize worthy. All prior world leaders failed to do what Trump accomplished on the ME.


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## DB008 (12 July 2022)

.​


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## 3 hound (12 July 2022)

DB008 said:


> View attachment 144009
> 
> 
> 
> .​




The desperation is truly astounding.


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## basilio (12 July 2022)

3 hound said:


> **




 https://www.news.com.au/world/why-d...e/news-story/6be59f60d2622023e2bb743b8d017562


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## 3 hound (12 July 2022)

basilio said:


> https://www.news.com.au/world/why-d...e/news-story/6be59f60d2622023e2bb743b8d017562



Lazy post there fella....be better.


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## SirRumpole (12 July 2022)

Id be interested to know how many people here really believe that Tfump won the election.


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## DB008 (12 July 2022)

Hmm, now this is very interesting....

Like l have said numerous times, J6 was a complete set up.

From this we learn:


The FBI had proud Boys Infiltrated;
They were non-violent, did not break the barriers;
The Feds imprisoned numerous members anyway on charges they knew were fake.









.


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## DB008 (12 July 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> Id be interested to know how many people here really believe that Tfump won the election.





LOL











.​


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## 3 hound (12 July 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> Id be interested to know how many people here really believe that Tfump won the election.




I'd be interested to know how many here really believe the Russian collusion hoax/conspiracy theory.


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## moXJO (12 July 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> Well the whole thing is about convicting Trump of a crime so he can never run for President again.
> 
> Which wouldn't be a bad thing imo. Trouble is one of his minions might.



All they are doing is backing him into a corner and make him run for president again. Should have stroked his ego and left him to wheel and deal. Instead they ostracise and harassed him to the point of pi55ing him and his supporters off.

As for the "Jan 6" committee, the whole thing is a farce. The fbi hounded one of those idiot jan 6ers untill he committed suicide. Literally stoking Trumps base

Democrats and lefties are bloody idiots. They have kept Trump fresh in everyone's minds for the past 2 years. Then give him little choice but to run again.

He's going to be 82 if he did win, way to old. Desantis is who most Republican lean towards. Rather then the divisiveness of Trump. Trump is no "sure bet" and in my opinion wouldn't win. Democrats however are just batsht crazy at this stage, not doing any favours with regards to the economy either.

Can't see Trump winning. I'd be surprised if he gets the numbers.
Democrats love drama though.


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## basilio (13 July 2022)

I'm currently reading the biography of Nancy Wake.  Nancy was an Australian  journalist who lived in France in the 30's and ended up married to a wealthy French industrialist.  She was a  clear sighted no nonsense women who saw at first hand the brutality of the Hitler/Mussolini/Franco regimes. In particular she visited Austria and Germany in the 30's and was horrified by the hero worship of Hitler and the behaviour of Nazi paramilitary  groups terrorising Jews.  She despised it all.

When war came Nancy stayed and ended up becoming  a key leader in the French Resistance.  She  won the respect of some pretty tough resistance fighters and did what had to be done to fight the Nazi tyranny. Her husband  Henri was  tortured and killed by the  Gestapo for his efforts in the resistance. The Gestapo called her _The White Mouse._

I'm writing this as an introduction to the testimony of the leader of the paramilitary group that stormed the Capitol on January 6th at the direction of Donald Trump. Let's get real please. Trump attempted to overthrow the election results of 2020.    Jason Van Tantenhove final words were.

*Van Tatenhove said: “I do fear for this next election cycle because who knows what that might bring.”

Calling Trump “a president willing to try to whip up civil war amongst his followers using lies and deceit and snake oil, regardless of the human impact”, Van Tatenhove asked: “What else is he going to do if he gets elected again? All bets are off at that point and that’s a scary notion.

“I have three daughters. I have a granddaughter. And I fear for the world that they will inherit if we do not start holding these people to account.”*


Trump sought to mount ‘armed revolution’, militia ex-spokesman says​Witness Jason van Tatenhove testifies at seventh public hearing, ‘This could have been the spark that started a new civil war’




Jason Van Tatenhove, the ex-spokesman for the Oath Keepers, is sworn in before the House select committee investigating the January 6 attack, at the seventh public hearing on Tuesday. Photograph: Ken Cedeno/UPI/REX/Shutterstock

Martin Pengelly

@MartinPengelly
Tue 12 Jul 2022 23.10 BSTLast modified on Wed 13 Jul 2022 00.14 BST


In powerful testimony to the House January 6 committee, a former spokesperson for the Oath Keepers militia told Americans to “quit mincing words and just talk about truths”, and to recognise that Donald Trump attempted to mount “an armed revolution” in order to stay in power.



Trump allies ‘screamed’ at aides who resisted seizing voting machines, January 6 panel hears
Read more

“People died that day,” Jason van Tatenhove said. “Law enforcement officers died, there was a gallows set up in front of the Capitol. This could have been the spark that started a new civil war, and no one would have won there. That would have been good for no one.”

Van Tatenhove appeared at a Tuesday hearing in Washington alongside Stephen Ayres, a former Trump supporter from Ohio who pleaded guilty to a misdemeanour charge related to entering the Capitol on 6 January 2021.

Both men discussed former allegiances and lessons learned after Congress was stormed by a mob that Trump told to “fight like hell” in service of his lie that his defeat by Joe Biden was the result of electoral fraud.

Ayres said his realisation Trump lied was akin to having “horse blinders” removed. He also spoke about what his conviction had cost him.

Van Tatenhove described efforts by Stewart Rhodes – the Oath Keepers leader now charged with seditious conspiracy – to hone his public image.

*Rhodes “was always looking for ways to legitimise what he was doing,” Van Tatenhove said, “wrapping it in the trappings of, ‘It’s not a militia, it’s a community preparedness team … an educational outreach group, it’s a veteran support group.’

“But again, we’ve got to stop with this dishonesty and the mincing of words and just call things for what they are. You know it, he’s a militia leader. He had these grand visions of being a paramilitary leader.”*

Members of the Oath Keepers provided security to Trump allies around January 6 and entered the Capitol.

A bipartisan Senate committee linked seven deaths to the riot, which failed to stop certification of Biden’s win. That toll included police officers who killed themselves after the riot, a total that has since grown by two.

Van Tatenhove said: “The fact the president was communicating whether directly or indirectly … kind of gave [Rhodes] the nod, and all I can do to thank the gods that things did not go any worse.”

Asked what the Oath Keepers saw in Trump, Van Tatenhove said: “They saw a path forward that would have legitimacy. They saw an opportunity … to become a powerful paramilitary force.”

Asked if Rhodes discussed violence against elected leaders, Van Tatenhove gave a chilling answer.

“That went back from the very beginning of my tenure,” he said, of an association which began around a standoff with federal forces in 2014. “One of the first assignments that he brought to me … as a graphic artist … was to create a deck of cards.

“You may remember the conflict in the Middle East where our own military created a deck of cards, a who’s who of key players on the other side they wanted to take out.

“And Stuart was very intrigued by that notion and influenced by it, I think, and he wanted me to create a deck of cards that would include different politicians, judges, up to Hillary Clinton as the Queen of Hearts.

*“This is a project that I refused to do. But from the very start, we saw that there was always the push for military training, including courses in that community that went over explosives training. So yeah, it all falls in line.”

Van Tatenhove said his experience showed the US had “gotten exceedingly lucky that more bloodshed did not happen because the potential has been there from the start.*




Ex-campaign chief texted ally Trump’s January 6 rhetoric ‘killed someone’
Read more
“A loss of life as tragic as that we saw on January 6, the potential was so much more. We have to look at the iconic images of that day, with the gallows set up for Mike Pence, for the vice-president of the United States.”









						Trump sought to mount ‘armed revolution’, militia ex-spokesman says
					

Witness Jason van Tatenhove testifies at seventh public hearing, ‘This could have been the spark that started a new civil war’




					www.theguardian.com


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## basilio (13 July 2022)

Short Story on Nancy Wake.



			https://anzacportal.dva.gov.au/resources/nancy-wake-stories-service


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## 3 hound (13 July 2022)

basilio said:


> I'm currently reading the biography of Nancy Wake.  Nancy was an Australian  journalist who lived in France in the 30's and ended up married to a wealthy French industrialist.  She was a  clear sighted no nonsense women who saw at first hand the brutality of the Hitler/Mussolini/Franco regimes. In particular she visited Austria and Germany in the 30's and was horrified by the hero worship of Hitler and the behaviour of Nazi paramilitary  groups terrorising Jews.  She despised it all.
> 
> When war came Nancy stayed and ended up becoming  a key leader in the French Resistance.  She  won the respect of some pretty tough resistance fighters and did what had to be done to fight the Nazi tyranny. Her husband  Henri was  tortured and killed by the  Gestapo for his efforts in the resistance. The Gestapo called her _The White Mouse._
> 
> ...




Takes a lot of imagination to convince yourself Jan 6 was anything like an armed insurrection.


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## basilio (13 July 2022)

3 hound said:


> Takes a lot of imagination to convince yourself Jan 6 was anything like an armed insurrection.



Nope 3 Hounds. One simply has to be able and willing to *read the evidence*.

But *wilful blindness *will of course refuse every piece of evidence it doesn't want to see. Of course the whole situation is about the* wilful blindness of Donald Trump *in refusing to acknowledge he  decisively lost the election and then did everything in his power to overthrow the result.

I don't know you from a fence post 3 Hounds.  But as far as I can see your resolute unwillingness to recognise the criminality of what Donald Trump has done in trying to overthrow the election results and the danger he has placed the the US electoral system through systematically undermining public confidence in elections suggest your as twisted as he is.

Or alternatively your just another creature of the Russian troll farm relentlessly doing your job.


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## 3 hound (13 July 2022)

basilio said:


> Nope 3 Hounds. One simply has to be able and willing to *read the evidence*.
> 
> But *wilful blindness *will of course refuse every piece of evidence it doesn't want to see. Of course the whole situation is about the* wilful blindness of Donald Trump *in refusing to acknowledge he  decisively lost the election and then did everything in his power to overthrow the result.
> 
> ...



You haven't presented any evidence yet just a few flowery stories.

Also reported for crazy accusations of Russian troll farms.


----------



## Joe Blow (13 July 2022)

One more insult or personal attack in this thread and it will be closed, along with every other open Donald Trump thread. And any new thread that is started about Donald Trump will be closed and the person who started it banned.

I have had enough of the toxic nature of Donald Trump threads and I now have zero tolerance for it.


----------



## basilio (13 July 2022)

Back to our old friend "ignore" - when it becomes truly fruitless to discuss reality.


----------



## moXJO (13 July 2022)

Joe Blow said:


> One more insult or personal attack in this thread and it will be closed, along with every other open Donald Trump thread. And any new thread that is started about Donald Trump will be closed and the person who started it banned.
> 
> I have had enough of the toxic nature of Donald Trump threads and I now have zero tolerance for it.



This isn't a bad idea. It's not really constructive conversation. It's been years of bs since 2016.


----------



## 3 hound (13 July 2022)

moXJO said:


> This isn't a bad idea. It's not really constructive conversation. It's been years of bs since 2016.




Agree.


----------



## moXJO (13 July 2022)

basilio said:


> I'm currently reading the biography of Nancy Wake.  Nancy was an Australian  journalist who lived in France in the 30's and ended up married to a wealthy French industrialist.  She was a  clear sighted no nonsense women who saw at first hand the brutality of the Hitler/Mussolini/Franco regimes. In particular she visited Austria and Germany in the 30's and was horrified by the hero worship of Hitler and the behaviour of Nazi paramilitary  groups terrorising Jews.  She despised it all.
> 
> When war came Nancy stayed and ended up becoming  a key leader in the French Resistance.  She  won the respect of some pretty tough resistance fighters and did what had to be done to fight the Nazi tyranny. Her husband  Henri was  tortured and killed by the  Gestapo for his efforts in the resistance. The Gestapo called her _The White Mouse._
> 
> ...



Jason Van Tatenhove left oath keepers in 2016?

Why is he there?

I thought a cop died from natural causes not from violence so he lied or was misleading.


----------



## basilio (13 July 2022)

Background on Jason Van Tatenhove.  He offered an insiders perspective on Oath Keepers.  
He left them in 2016 because he was concerned at their direction and loss of reality.

This Coloradan was a “propagandist” for the Oath Keepers. Now he’s speaking out against the extremist militia tied to Jan. 6.     ​Jason Van Tatenhove has been asked to speak to the Congressional investigation into the Capitol attack​









AAron Ontiveroz, The Denver Post
Jason Van Tatenhove poses for a portrait at his home in Estes Park on Wednesday, Feb. 16, 2022. Van Tatenhove spoke about his time as national media director for the Oath Keepers, a far-right extremist militia, which he left several years ago.

https://www.denverpost.com/2022/02/27/oath-keepers-colorado-jason-van-tatenhove/


----------



## basilio (13 July 2022)

Deaths and cause of deaths  that arose from the Jan 6th  capitol riots









						How Many Died as a Result of Capitol Riot? - FactCheck.org
					

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol resulted in "almost 10 dead." Four people died that day, and five others -- all law enforcement officers -- died days, weeks and even months later. Here we lay out what is publicly known about the circumstances surrounding those...




					www.factcheck.org


----------



## moXJO (13 July 2022)

basilio said:


> Deaths and cause of deaths  that arose from the Jan 6th  capitol riots
> 
> 
> 
> ...



4 trumpers died jan 6th.

Jason Van Tatenhove according to him left in 2016. Did anyone dig back to 2016 to see the real reasoning?
Why is he dealing knowledge for jan 6 and the oathkeepers when he wasn't part of the group for years?


----------



## 3 hound (14 July 2022)

moXJO said:


> 4 trumpers died jan 6th.
> 
> Jason Van Tatenhove according to him left in 2016. Did anyone dig back to 2016 to see the real reasoning?
> Why is he dealing knowledge for jan 6 and the oathkeepers when he wasn't part of the group for years?



Didn't you watch the movie inception?

Just because he had nothing to do with it doesn't mean he can't use the mysterious powers of inception to inception himself into a future event that didn't happen. He actually quotes stuff about civil war in his testimony from 2014 that has nothing to do with trump which the Dems are using as bombshell testimony as evidence against events in ,Jan 6...it's safe desperation funded by tax payers instead of real work ....but entertaining.


----------



## 3 hound (14 July 2022)

moXJO said:


> I thought a cop died from natural causes not from violence so he lied or was misleading.




The unfortunate death of this man was unrelated to the riots and of natural causes, only the fake news organisations have desperately tried to turn it into something, the police and courts haven't.


----------



## moXJO (14 July 2022)

3 hound said:


> Didn't you watch the movie inception?
> 
> Just because he had nothing to do with it doesn't mean he can't use the mysterious powers of inception to inception himself into a future event that didn't happen. He actually quotes stuff about civil war in his testimony from 2014 that has nothing to do with trump which the Dems are using as bombshell testimony as evidence against events in ,Jan 6...it's safe desperation funded by tax payers instead of real work ....but entertaining.



Democrats are blame shifting. They spent months fuelling anger and riots. We had donors funding groups that were destroying cities. We had Republican supporters politically targeted. The anger and hate had been brewing for years.

Trump was a much smaller part of a larger political hate machine.
Dems midterm angling between Jan 6 and roe.


----------



## basilio (22 July 2022)

Latest Jan 6th hearings.

January 6 committee hearing reveals what Donald Trump was doing — and not doing — during the Capitol riot​By Joanna Robin in Washington DC and Rebecca Armitage
Posted 35m ago35 minutes ago




 The committee claims that Donald Trump spent much of the Capitol riot watching events unfold on TV from his dining room. (AP: Manuel Balce Ceneta)
Help keep family & friends informed by sharing this article



The first round of January 6 hearings may have ended, but the committee investigating the Capitol riot seems to be just getting started.
Over seven hearings, the panel has weaved its shocking findings with surprise witness testimony, building towards the series finale, dubbed the "187 Minutes Hearing" by committee aides.

The prime-time hearing gave the most detailed account yet of what former president Donald Trump did — and didn't do — for more than three hours while his supporters tried to violently stop the transfer of power.

"He lied, he bullied, he betrayed his oath. He tried to destroy our democratic institutions," said committee chair Bennie Thompson, who recently tested positive for COVID-19, via video.

"And then he stopped for 187 minutes on January 6.


> "He could not be moved to rise from the dining room table and walk the few steps down the White House hallway into the press briefing room, where cameras were anxiously and desperately waiting to carry his message to the armed and violent mob."







 The final hearing, scheduled for a prime-time broadcast slot, was packed with reporters and onlookers. (ABC News: Cameron Schwarz )
*At 1.10pm, Mr Trump finished his speech at the White House Ellipse, while his then-vice-president was already performing his constitutional duty to certify the results of the 2020 election.

The first wave of rioters had already breached the barriers surrounding the Capitol.

Despite pleas "from nearly everyone", including White House staff, his family and members of US Congress, he refused to act until 4.17pm when he tweeted a video, calling on them to leave.*

Here's what we learned.









						'He could not be moved to rise from the dining room table': Explosive hearing gives a glimpse into Trump's inaction on Jan 6
					

Over seven hearings, the January 6 committee has weaved its shocking findings with surprise witness testimony, building towards the series finale, dubbed the "187 Minutes Hearing". Here's what we learned.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## basilio (6 August 2022)

Couldn't have said it any better.

Dick Cheney attacks Donald Trump as ‘greatest threat to our republic’​Vice-president under George W Bush denounces, in campaign ad for daughter Liz, ‘coward … who lost his election, and lost big’




Dick Cheney with George W Bush in 2008. Cheney said in the ad: ‘He is a coward. A real man wouldn’t lie to his supporters.’ Photograph: Evan Vucci/AP

Lauren Aratani in New York
Fri 5 Aug 2022 15.43 BSTLast modified on Fri 5 Aug 2022 16.03 BS

Dick Cheney has branded Donald Trump the greatest “threat to our republic”, in a new campaign ad for his daughter, Liz Cheney, who is running for re-election in Wyoming.

“In our nation’s 236-year history, there has never been an individual who is a greater threat to our republic than Donald Trump,” said Cheney, who served as vice-president for two terms under George W Bush.




Alex Jones worth up to $270m, expert says, as family seeks punitive damages
Read more
*Cheney said: “He tried to steal the last election using lies and violence to keep himself in power after the voters had rejected him.

“He is a coward. A real man wouldn’t lie to his supporters. He lost his election, and he lost big. I know it, he knows it, and deep down I think most Republicans know it.”*

Cheney went on to speak about how proud he was of his daughter “for standing up to the truth, doing what’s right, honoring her oath to the constitution when so many in our party are too scared to do so”.

The one-minute ad featured the elder Cheney’s sharpest public attacks against Trump to date. Best known as the most powerful vice-president in American history, and a major figure in leading the US to war in Iraq, he has taken to defending his daughter in her fight against Trump.

*“There’s nothing more important she will ever do than lead the effort to make sure Donald Trump is never near the Oval Office. And she will succeed,” he said in the ad.









						Dick Cheney attacks Donald Trump as ‘greatest threat to our republic’
					

Vice-president under George W Bush denounces, in campaign ad for daughter Liz, ‘coward … who lost his election, and lost big’




					www.theguardian.com
				



*


----------



## basilio (3 October 2022)

Another "frank and fearless response" to the attacks on Congress on January 6th 2021

Capitol attack officer Fanone hits out at ‘weasel’ McCarthy in startling interview​Michael Fanone makes candid and profane remarks about Republicans in Rolling Stone interview as he promotes memoir




Michael Fanone testifies before the House January 6 committee. Photograph: Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images

Martin Pengelly in New York

@MartinPengelly
Sun 2 Oct 2022 21.14 BSTLast modified on Sun 2 Oct 2022 21.16 BS


In an extraordinarily candid and profane interview with Rolling Stone, Michael Fanone – the former Washington police officer who was seriously hurt at the US Capitol during the January 6 attack – called the Republican House leader, potentially the next speaker, a “xucking weasel hitch”.



Oath Keepers to stand trial on charges of seditious conspiracy

Read more

Fanone said past Republican giants would be unimpressed with Kevin McCarthy.

“I think at night, when the lights are turned off, Abe Lincoln and Ronald Reagan have some pretty choice words to say about the fact that they have to hang on Kevin McCarthy’s wall,” Fanone said.

“They did some xucking above-average things. And they’ve got to adorn the wall of this xucking weasel hitch named Kevin McCarthy, with his fake xucking spray-on tan, whose xucking claim to fame, at least in my eyes, is the fact that he amassed a collection of Donald Trump’s favorite-flavored Starburst, put them in a Mason jar, and presented them to xucking Donald Trump.

“What the xuck, dude?”

Fanone’s remarks came as he promoted his memoir, Hold the Line, which will be published next week.

The title refers to Fanone’s actions on 6 January 2021, when he, a DC Metropolitan officer, answered calls from Capitol police and rushed to confront Trump supporters storming Congress in an attempt to stop certification of the outgoing president’s defeat to Joe Biden in the 2020 election.

*Fanone suffered a heart attack and a traumatic brain injury. He has since left the police and emerged, with other officers, as a key witness in hearings held by the House January 6 committee.* The riot has been linked to nine deaths, including suicides among law enforcement officers. More than 900 rioters have been charged, some with seditious conspiracy.









						Capitol attack officer Fanone hits out at ‘weasel’ McCarthy in startling interview
					

Michael Fanone makes candid and profane remarks about Republicans in Rolling Stone interview as he promotes memoir




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## basilio (14 October 2022)

Latest Jan 6th Committee presentation wraps up the entirety of the efforts by the Trump inspired mob to stop Congress from declaring Biden the new President.

Excellent story and live video.

Do you believe this?’: New video shows how Nancy Pelosi took charge in Capitol riot​House speaker continued to try to find a way for House and Senate to reconvene despite turmoil

New video shows Pelosi and Schumer scrambling to take charge in Capitol attack - video

Guardian staff and agencies
Fri 14 Oct 2022 02.01 BSTLast modified on Fri 14 Oct 2022 02.51 BST


New footage of the January 6 riots at the US Capitol shows House speaker Nancy Pelosi calmly trying to take charge of the situation as she sheltered at Fort McNair, two miles south of the Capitol.

“There has to be some way,” she told colleagues, “we can maintain the sense that people have that there is some security or some confidence that government can function and that you can elect the president of the United States.”

Then an unidentified voice interjected with alarming news: lawmakers on the House floor had begun putting on teargas masks in preparation for a breach. Pelosi asked the woman to repeat what she said.



Capitol attack panel votes to subpoena Trump – ‘the central cause of January 6’

Read more

“Do you believe this?” Pelosi said to another Democratic leader, Jim Clyburn of South Carolina.

The footage was from about 2.45pm, when rioters had already disrupted the planned certification of the 2020 presidential election results. It would be hours before the building was secure.
*
Never-before-seen video footage played Thursday by the House of Representatives select committee investigating last year’s riot shows how Pelosi and other leaders, including Republican allies of Donald Trump, responded to the insurrection.*

The recordings offer a rare glimpse into the real-time reactions of the most powerful members of Congress as they scrambled to drum up support from all parts of the government, including from agencies seemingly ill prepared for the chaos, and vented anger over a president whose conduct they felt had endangered their lives.









						‘Do you believe this?’: New video shows how Nancy Pelosi took charge in Capitol riot
					

House speaker continued to try to find a way for House and Senate to reconvene despite turmoil




					www.theguardian.com
				




t


----------



## SirRumpole (14 October 2022)

basilio said:


> Latest Jan 6th Committee presentation wraps up the entirety of the efforts by the Trump inspired mob to stop Congress from declaring Biden the new President.
> 
> Excellent story and live video.
> 
> ...




Frightening stuff. Trump has been summoned but probably won't attend.

We know who the ringleader is , but he will get away with it.


----------



## basilio (14 October 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> Frightening stuff. Trump has been summoned but probably won't attend.
> 
> We know who the ringleader is , but he will get away with it.



Perhaps.. perhaps not.
The purpose of the January 6th Committee was to establish what had happened outside and inside Congresson that date, and then identify the forces that lead to the riot, the participants and the leaders.

The final public presentation of the Committee does a great summary.  In effect it lays out the evidence for formally charging Donald Trump with responsibility for this attempt to undermine the 2020 election result.

January 6 panel’s case against Trump lays out roadmap for prosecution​Sam Levine in New York
*Devastating testimony, nearly all from Republicans, will have given attorney general Merrick Garland plenty of food for thought




*
A video of Donald Trump is played during a hearing by the House select committee to investigate the January 6 attack on the US Capitol. Photograph: Alex Wong/EPA

Fri 14 Oct 2022 06.00 BSTLast modified on Fri 14 Oct 2022 06.02 BST


After more than a year of work that consisted of interviewing 1,000-plus witnesses and reviewing hundreds of thousands of documents, the committee investigating the January 6 attack on the Capitol chose a simple message for its final public hearing: Donald Trump was singularly responsible for the attack.



January 6 hearing takeaways: Trump knew he lost and now faces subpoena
Read more

Since its first hearing in June, the committee’s work has been aimed at two audiences. One of those has been the broad American public. Tactfully using video, the committee has told a disciplined, clear story of what happened on January 6, and the days leading up to it, filled with jaw-dropping soundbites from Trump’s closest aides.

But the committee’s public coda on Thursday appeared more directed at its second audience: an audience of one, the US attorney general, Merrick Garland.

Garland will ultimately decide whether to bring criminal charges against Trump over January 6, and the committee’s work, which has run parallel to the justice department’s investigation, has made a public case for bringing charges, attempting to bring along public support for doing so.

Working chronologically from months before election day until January 6, each of the panel’s nine members on Thursday laid out the signposts of what a criminal case against the former US president could look like.

Pointing to volumes of evidence, they explained how Trump had decided months before election day that he won, regardless of the actual result. When his closest aides informed him that he lost, Trump intentionally chose not to concede. And even though he knew there was the threat of violence at the US Capitol on January 6, Trump fomented it anyway.

“None of this would have happened without him. He was personally and substantially involved in all of it,” Liz Cheney, the Republican representative who serves as the panel’s vice-chair, said in her opening remarks.

Thursday’s hearing continued much of the strategy successfully deployed in previous hearings. It heavily featured video depositions and there were dramatic reveals. There was new, stunning, behind-the-scenes footage of Nancy Pelosi and top congressional leaders as they pleaded for security assistance on January 6.

The panel also presented new evidence it obtained from the Secret Service showing the White House was warned of the potential for violence on January 6. And there was a last-minute dramatic twist as the committee voted 9-0 to subpoena Trump.

And just like previous hearings, nearly all of the testimony the committee presented on Thursday came from Republicans who were part of Trump’s inner circle.

There was video from Bill Stepien, Trump’s campaign manager, who advised the president against declaring victory while votes were being counted.

There was Greg Jacobs, a top adviser to Mike Pence, who said they were aware Trump could turn on the vice-president on January 6.

And there was more devastating video of Cassidy Hutchinson, a top aide to the White House chief of staff Mark Meadows, who told the committee how Trump fumed after the supreme court rebuffed his request to overturn the election.

“‘I don’t want people to know we lost, Mark. This is embarrassing. Figure it out. We need to figure it out. I don’t want people to know that we lost,” Trump told Meadows after the supreme court ruled against him, Hutchinson said.

That kind of testimony may be the committee’s most consequential legacy.

In getting top Republicans and Trump’s inner circle to publicly describe observations and conversations in the lead-up to January 6, the committee has blunted attacks that its work is a partisan exercise. It has created a record of some of the most powerful Republicans in the US government telling Trump that what he was doing was illegal. And the committee has slowly and meticulously isolated Trump, establishing his culpability, showing how he deliberately chose to ignore what those around him were telling him.

“When you look back at what has come out through this committee’s work, the most striking fact is that all this evidence comes almost entirely from Republicans,” Bennie Thompson, the committee chairman and a Mississippi Democrat, said in his opening statement.

That nonpartisan framing is an enormous gift to Garland and his justice department as it investigates and weighs bringing charges. It helps establish the case against Trump as an apolitical one, driven by the law. And even though Trump and other Republicans are likely to claim any charges are a political witch-hunt regardless, the voluminous testimony from top Republicans will help undercut that defense.

The committee will probably make public a final report later this year and decide whether to refer Trump and others to the justice department for potential criminal prosecution.

But regardless of its actions, the lie that Trump fomented after the 2020 election has taken deep hold across the United States. The 147 Republicans in the House who tried to overturn the election results have faced few consequences. Denying the results of the 2020 election has become orthodoxy in the Republican party. Candidates who have spread baseless conspiracy theories about voting machines and elections are now on the verge of winning offices with statewide election oversight in Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona and Michigan – all presidential battleground states.

Those developments have made the committee’s work all the more pressing.
*
“Our institutions only hold when men and women of good faith make them hold, regardless of the political cost. We have no guarantee that these men and women will be in place next time. Any future president inclined to attempt what Donald Trump did in 2020, has now learned not to install people who could stand in the way,” said Cheney, who lost a primary earlier this year because of her opposition to Trump.

“With every effort to excuse or justify the conduct of the former president, we chip away at the foundation of our republic. Indefensible conduct is defended, inexcusable conduct is excused. Without accountability, it all becomes normal and it will recur,” she added.*









						January 6 panel’s case against Trump lays out roadmap for prosecution
					

Devastating testimony, nearly all from Republicans, will have given attorney general Merrick Garland plenty of food for thought




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## SirRumpole (14 October 2022)

basilio said:


> But regardless of its actions, the lie that Trump fomented after the 2020 election has taken deep hold across the United States. The 147 Republicans in the House who tried to overturn the election results have faced few consequences. Denying the results of the 2020 election has become orthodoxy in the Republican party. Candidates who have spread baseless conspiracy theories about voting machines and elections are now on the verge of winning offices with statewide election oversight in Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona and Michigan – all presidential battleground states.




That's the problem. After all he's done a lot of people believe in him or don't believe the Democrats.

Trump may never run again , but he could run the country from the backrow.


----------



## basilio (14 October 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> That's the problem. After all he's done a lot of people believe in him or don't believe the Democrats.
> 
> Trump may never run again , but he could run the country from the backrow.



Which makes holding him accountable for his actions even more important.


----------



## moXJO (14 October 2022)

How convenient, a sham committee just before midterms.


----------



## basilio (15 October 2022)

moXJO said:


> How convenient, a sham committee just before midterms.



Out for an afternoon walk Mr Troll


----------



## moXJO (15 October 2022)

basilio said:


> Out for an afternoon walk Mr Troll



Someone needs to kick-start general.


----------



## basilio (15 October 2022)

moXJO said:


> Someone needs to kick-start general.



Indeed.. And in some darker moments this morning I did contemplate a refresh of Trumps* spectacular success  *(no other word for it) in creating a Republician Party where the overwhelming majority on  candidates in the 2022 Mid terms supported his Big Lie on the rigged and stolen Presidential election.  Goebbels must be green with envy at that success.

And just to refresh everyone on what we have missed why not recap the latest note of  Trump unhinged at the height of his spitting power.









						Trump’s Official Response to Jan. 6 Subpoena Is as Unhinged as His Truth Social Posts
					

The former president isn't taking kindly to the panel's vote to ask him to testify and provide documents related to his role in the riot at the Capitol




					news.yahoo.com


----------



## moXJO (15 October 2022)

basilio said:


> Indeed.. And in some darker moments this morning I did contemplate a refresh of Trumps* spectacular success  *(no other word for it) in creating a Republician Party where the overwhelming majority on  candidates in the 2022 Mid terms supported his Big Lie on the rigged and stolen Presidential election.  Goebbels must be green with envy at that success.
> 
> And just to refresh everyone on what we have missed why not recap the latest note of  Trump unhinged at the height of his spitting power.
> 
> ...



Let's not mention the media censorship of anything "Biden".
The amount or the amount of lies told about Trump by Democrat leaning sources. 

Or ballot harvesting for that matter by paid groups


----------



## DB008 (16 October 2022)

Trump was right (again.....)


*Tech billionaire Chamath says Europe is in an energy crisis because they listened to Greta Thunberg instead of Donald Trump.
*
"An entire continent essentially allowed a 16-year-old girl to dictate their energy policy. And when Greta Thunberg was able to shame an entire continent into walking away from nuclear and not really evaluating how you can have energy independence. What they did was they put Europe in an incredibly fragile position...

[President Trump's] language turned people off even though the message that he was delivering was 100% right. When Trump went to the United Nations, he was clear, he was precise, and in hindsight, and I'm saying this as a Democrat, he was right about the German reliance on Russian gas and the European reliance...

In all of our haste to overtly judge Trump because of his delivery and his personal style or whatever, we went toward this 16-year-old person who has no rooting in science or technology, to dictate the energy policy of an entire continent. I mean she was nominated for a Nobel Prize, just to remind you guys, this is how insane all of these people were."






Your browser is not able to display this video.





.


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## basilio (18 October 2022)

Well we can't say we havn't been told. The Republican nominee for Governor refuses to say she will accept the mid term results - unless she wins. If she wins that's fine. If not look out.  Much like "Heads I win, Tails you lose" .

Just shows how  effectively Donald Trump  has corrupted the Republican Party.

Arizona governor candidate refuses to say if she will accept midterms result​Kari Lake, who has echoed Trump’s claims the 2020 election was stolen, refuses three times to answer when pressed on CNN





Kari Lake with Donald Trump at a rally in Mesa, Arizona, earlier in October. Photograph: Brian Snyder/Reuters

Sam Levine in New York
Mon 17 Oct 2022 23.49 AEDTLast modified on Tue 18 Oct 2022 05.36 AEDT


The Republican gubernatorial nominee in Arizona, Kari Lake, refused to say whether she would accept the results of the election if she loses in November.

Lake, a former Phoenix-area news anchor, has made denying the 2020 election results that her preferred candidate, Donald Trump, lost a pillar of her campaign. She has said she wouldn’t have certified the 2020 vote that the former president lost – and which the Democratic victor, Joe Biden, won in Arizona by just over 10,000 votes – saying the election was “corrupt, rotten”.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...a-utah-ohio-biden-trump-jan-6-politics-latest
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...a-utah-ohio-biden-trump-jan-6-politics-latest
Appearing on CNN’s State of the Union on Sunday, Lake was asked three times by host Dana Bash whether she would accept the results of next month’s election. She avoided the question twice, before saying she would accept it if she won.

“I’m going to win the election, and I will accept that result,” she said. She declined to answer when Bash followed up to ask if she would accept the result if she lost.

“I’m going to win the election, and I will accept that result,” she repeated.

Denying the results of the last presidential election has become orthodoxy in Republican politics. On the ballot this fall, 291 Republican nominees – a majority of those running – have denied or questioned the election results, according to a Washington Post analysis.

Arizona is one of several states across the country where Republicans who deny the results of the 2020 election are on the cusp of winning offices in which they would have oversight over how elections are run and play a role in certification. Lake is in a tight race against her Democratic opponent, Katie Hobbs. Lake has hammered Hobbs recently over her decision not to debate her, and there are grumblings among Arizona Democrats about Hobbs’s campaign.

In addition to Lake, Mark Finchem, a state lawmaker who played a key role in Trump’s failed efforts to overturn his ouster from the Oval Office, is also in a close race. He’s vying to be Arizona’s secretary of state. Finchem, who introduced a resolution to decertify the 2020 election earlier this year, led Democratic candidate Adrian Fontes 49%-45% in a recent CNN poll, which was within the poll’s margin of error. iVote, a group that works to elect Democratic secretaries of state, recently announced it would spend $5m on the race.

*Appearing in Arizona recently, Liz Cheney, the Republican vice-chair of the January 6 committee, warned voters against backing Lake and Finchem. “They both said that they will only honor the results of an election if they agree with it,” she said.

“We cannot give people power who have told us that they will not hono*r* elections. Elections are the foundation of our republic and peaceful transfers of power are the foundation of our republic.”









						Arizona governor candidate refuses to say if she will accept midterms result
					

Kari Lake, who has echoed Trump’s claims the 2020 election was stolen, refuses three times to answer when pressed on CNN




					www.theguardian.com
				



*


----------



## Knobby22 (18 October 2022)

basilio said:


> Well we can't say we havn't been told. The Republican nominee for Governor refuses to say she will accept the mid term results - unless she wins. If she wins that's fine. If not look out.  Much like "Heads I win, Tails you lose" .
> 
> Just shows how  effectively Donald Trump  has corrupted the Republican Party.
> 
> ...



Scary times.


----------



## DB008 (19 October 2022)

But the 2020 Election was the most secure in history...... 



​


----------



## wayneL (19 October 2022)

TDS lives.


----------



## Macquack (20 October 2022)

DB008 said:


> But the 2020 Election was the most secure in history......
> 
> 
> 
> ​




Where is his balaclava? Just another beat up by the delusional.


----------



## basilio (20 October 2022)

*So exactly how clear does it have to be to demonstrate the criminal dishonesty of Donald Trump ? *I appreciate that for some posters on ASF there will never, ever be  sufficient evidence of criminal dishonesty. They ain't for turning.

But for those who  have respect for reality this  development is worth  considering.

Trump signed statement alleging voter fraud knowing it was false, judge says​Document was part of lawsuit challenging results of 2020 election in Georgia




A video deposition showing John Eastman is played during a January 6 committee hearing this month. Photograph: Rex/Shutterstock

Maya Yang
Thu 20 Oct 2022 11.00 AEDTLast modified on Thu 20 Oct 2022 11.54 AEDT


Donald Trump signed a legal statement alleging voter fraud in the 2020 election despite being told the numbers underpinning the case were false, a federal judge said on Wednesday.

The disclosure was made by the US district judge David Carter, who ordered John Eastman, a former Trump lawyer, to provide more emails to the congressional committee investigating the January 6 attack on the US Capitol.

Eastman was one of Trump’s attorneys when the former president and his allies challenged his 2020 election loss to Joe Biden.
The legal document was part of a lawsuit by Trump’s team challenging the results in Georgia, a state Trump narrowly lost to Biden, in which they claimed a Georgia county had improperly counted more than 10,000 votes of dead people, felons and unregistered voters.



https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/oct/18/trump-mar-a-lago-documents-seized-fbi
*In an 18-page opinion, Carter said that the former president had “signed a verification swearing under oath” that the inaccurate fraud numbers were “true and correct” or “believed to be true and correct” to the best of his knowledge.

“The emails show that President Trump knew that the specific numbers of voter fraud were wrong but continued to tout those numbers, both in court and to the public,” the judge wrote, adding: “The Court finds that these emails are sufficiently related to and in furtherance of a conspiracy to defraud the United States.”*

Carter previously ruled that Eastman and Trump had probably committed a felony by trying to pressure his then vice-president, Mike Pence, to obstruct Congress.

The ruling was made in a lawsuit filed by Eastman to block disclosure of the emails to the January 6 select committee, following a congressional subpoena.

Carter previously ordered Eastman to provide over 200 emails to the committee, after the lawyer resisted the subpoena and claimed that the communications were privileged.









						Trump signed statement alleging voter fraud knowing it was false, judge says
					

Document was part of lawsuit challenging results of 2020 election in Georgia




					www.theguardian.com


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## mullokintyre (9 November 2022)

The just completed mid term elections were a complete disaster for Trump.
His high profile support of Gen Dolduc, Mehmet OZ and hershel Walker both lost.
His rivals, Desantis , Abbot and Brian Kemp and Rubio all had good wins, and it is to be hoped that one of them gets the republican nod as the preferred candidate.
The only way i can see Trump running in 2024 , assuming he escapes the myriad of court cases he faces,  is if he runs as purely independant candidate. that will decimate the republican vote and ensure whoever hets the democrat nomination will win hands down.
Stacey Adams is the US equivalent of Kristine Keneally.
It seems everything she enters she loses.
Mick


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## wayneL (9 November 2022)

mullokintyre said:


> The just vompleted mid term elections were a complete disaster for Trump.
> His high profile support of Gen Dolduc, Mehmet OZ and hershel Walker both lost.
> His rivals, Desantis , Abbot and Brian Kemp and Rubio all had good wins, and it is to be hoped that one of them gets the republican nod as the preferred candidate.
> The only way i can see Trump running in 2024 , assuming he escapes the myriad of court cases he faces,  is if he runs as purely independant candidate. that will decimate the republican vote and ensure whoever hets the democrat nomination will win hands down.
> ...



I'm pretty split on the whole Trump question. On the one hand I hope he runs in and wins in 2024 for the sheer entertainment value.

On the other hand I think Desantis would make the best president... Probably the best president for the last few generations.

The democrats do seem to like the cognitively diminished. Biden with his dementia, Fetterman in Pennsylvania the stroke victim, and Hobbs in Arizona who seems to struggle to piece together anything that makes any sense whatsoever.


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## mullokintyre (9 November 2022)

wayneL said:


> I'm pretty split on the whole Trump question. On the one hand I hope he runs in and wins in 2024 for the sheer entertainment value.
> 
> On the other hand I think Desantis would make the best president... Probably the best president for the last few generations.
> 
> The democrats do seem to like the cognitively diminished. Biden with his dementia, Fetterman in Pennsylvania the stroke victim, and Hobbs in Arizona who seems to struggle to piece together anything that makes any sense whatsoever.



its because the elected reps are only window dressing to vote the policy that is decided by the power brokers in the US.
And its no great difference between dems and gops in that respect.
Mick


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## wayneL (9 November 2022)

mullokintyre said:


> its because the elected reps are only window dressing to vote the policy that is decided by the power brokers in the US.
> And its no great difference between dems and gops in that respect.
> Mick



True, dat.


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## IFocus (10 November 2022)

Massive risk to Australia if Trump gets up. 

Pacific Islands would likely become be China's.

Foreign policy wise Desantis  is an unknown.


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## basilio (12 November 2022)

wayneL said:


> The democrats do seem to like the cognitively diminished. Biden with his dementia, Fetterman in Pennsylvania the stroke victim, and Hobbs in Arizona who seems to struggle to piece together anything that makes any sense whatsoever.



Nah .  Actually they would probably accept a 6 day old tuna sandwich that had been left in the sun in preference to the lying Trump sycophants who parroted the big election lies of their puppet master. 

Realistically the Republician candidates who faired best were the  (relatively) moderate coherant ones who wern't hand picked by Trump to follow his line. That's  voters choice for you.


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## wayneL (12 November 2022)

basilio said:


> Nah .  Actually they would probably accept a 6 day old tuna sandwich that had been left in the sun in preference to the lying Trump sycophants who parroted the big election lies of their puppet master.
> 
> Realistically the Republician candidates who faired best were the  (relatively) moderate coherant ones who wern't hand picked by Trump to follow his line. That's  voters choice for you.



Meanwhile, democrats not only vote in stroke victims and float him out as a possible presidential candidate, they also vote in dead people.

Anyway, I do believe we have a new god emperor, so a brand-new mental incapacity for leftists - Desantis Derangement Syndrome


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