# Starting small CFD account



## Triple B (31 October 2017)

Gday.

Have been interested in Stock market 
Since  High School  Economics Classes... 27years ago
Have been Studying a couple hours per night since April 2017.
Paper Trading Since June 13 and Also on the ASX Game making reasonable profits after a  bit of drawdown from overtrading , no patience etc...

Longer Term plans 10 years max. are to Make majority of income from trading , being supplemented  by My Self employed Tradie income

MId Term: 1year + is To supplement my Tradie income, and grow capital assets to Size large enough to achieve Longer Term Goal. Will have 1 CFD acc to Start.
2 accounts When  Capital Reaches  Amount Large enough to Split.
Another 3rd CFD Acc For "Pocket Money" for new golf Clubs ,Holidays etc
At each pre determined level of Profit I will be Transferring Funds into a Standard Broking Acc.   ie $5 or  $10 K at a time .
May also Look into Forex , Gold futures , etc later

Short Term .. Trade Small CFD acc as a way of learning with "real money"
Reach B/E  with acc and also deposit a bit at a time  to gradually move to larger Pos Sizes
gain Live experience with little to no Stress . 
Build account with what the market provides.

The Risks and their management.
So Starting with a $1000 acc. 
If I lose this I wont lose sleep. 
Of Course I would  be disappointed but would hopefully learn from mistakes.

Now I could trade up to $ 20000 with $1000 using 5% margin .[Don't do this!!]
But nothing left for margin calls and quick way to get your account closed !
Your broker does not want to have to chase  you for margin!They will close your trade before that happens if they have the time!
So Will be using 5-10%  margin Stocks with the same % left in Free equity for Margin Calls.
Therefore a 10% margin Stock  will have 20%[ 10%+10%] in margin for the dreaded Gap Down.
This also means that The account will only ever be 50% in active margin with the other %50
Ready for any nasty crash or big gap down of one Stock
Remember CFDs are Risky , The above Should be enough to make you think about the Risks and assess for yourself if you can tolerate losing you entire CFD account in one Bad Day.
eg market collapses in USA overnight and Most ASX Stocks Drop 10-25% on open nxt day.
Scary thought ,but possible.

So To Start I will be risking 8% of account or less per trade + costs which will be at least $20
in /out. + finance costs. so about 10% Risk per Trade!! High Risk Trading!/Gambling !?
Stop Trading if acc gets to $500 and re assess.
This will give position Sizes of around $1500 - $2500 . I figured this is a good min size as costs will be around 1% so not to eat up too much in profits and only add 1% to losses
Cost s cans Skew P/L Ratio too much if they become too large in relation to pos size.
As acc grows position size will remain the same until Risk is down to 2% of acc

ie. as account grows risk reduces,but trade number can increase or higher margin stocks traded


So $80acc risk + $20In/ Out ...Finance  about $5 Average =$105 Risk per trade
This is  2%  of $5250.  After This, pos size can grow with acc.


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## Triathlete (31 October 2017)

You have mentioned that you have only started paper trading since June 13...
Can I ask what your results have been:

Number of trades
Win / Loss %
Profit / Loss percentages has been??
Reward to Risk and expectancy ratio.

Also have you given any thoughts as to what type of stocks you intend to trade using CFDs eg ASX 20 ASX50,  ASX 100 , ASX200 or something else???


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## peter2 (1 November 2017)

I applaud your caution as I think it's warranted. My concern is, Are you going to get enough trading experience in the period you've alloted for this stage?  It's going to take a long time to reach a level where you can split your account. 

You've already put a bit of thought into it but most people start trading equities with too little capital. 
I think your starting capital is too small. Two reasons; 
(i) $1000 is a pittance, you've already given it up. You'll have to stop if you lose $500. 
(ii) $1000 won't allow you to start enough trades to get into a good one. 

My advice is to start with more say $3K - 5K.
It's enough to hurt if you lose it, not enough to cause you financial trouble. You'll have enough to cover the margins and any downside exposure on 3 - 6 trades. If you can't get into a winner starting 3 - 6 trades then your entry criteria needs lots of work.

The obvious Q's we ask is (Triathlete already has);
How do you know you have an edge? 
Do you know how to create it? 
Can you do what it takes to create it? 

All the best with your endeavour.


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## Triple B (1 November 2017)

Triathlete said:


> You have mentioned that you have only started paper trading since June 13...
> Can I ask what your results have been:
> 
> Number of trades
> ...




Sure
These are the stock watch trades  since 13/6/17
$50000 Start
46 Trades [if you include closing 4 current trades open now]
22 Win   24 Loss
Win % 47.8%
Total wins $ 12766
Total loss $  5119
Total Profit $7647
Profit          15.3 %
Costs  $2687 !! [does not include cost of closing current 4 trades]
Profit after costs $4960
Profit after costs 9.92%

Avg Win $ 580   Avg Loss $213
P/L Ratio  2.72:1
Expectancy .7781
This result includes overtrading . mistakes , trades I could not take because they were not listed on stockwatch,  etc
I'm sure I can improve on it .
A2M certainly helped.
Starting with asx 50 as these are lowest required margin but least volatile .
Eventually  ASX 200

Current balance on ASX Game is $53421
after overtrading down to almost $48000 .


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## Triple B (1 November 2017)

Thanks Peter . 
Point taken about small amount to start with 
I will be depositing another $1k within 2 weeks and then further $100  p/w consistently for the next few years. Should be at least $3 k by Christmas.
trading now and in profit, but very tricky as you say with low capital start. so far so good however.
Back 
soon thanks for the comments.


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## Triathlete (1 November 2017)

Triple B said:


> Sure
> These are the stock watch trades  since 13/6/17
> $50000 Start
> 46 Trades [if you include closing 4 current trades open now]
> ...



With a win% of 47.8 you need to be aware that your probable losing streak will be around 13 or 17 based on the win% chart I have attached so I guess you really need to be on top of your game with stops etc....your risk per trade is going to be quite high so this is not good in my opinion of course.

Good luck and keep us all posted on how you do.


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## Triple B (1 November 2017)

Triathlete said:


> With a win% of 47.8 you need to be aware that your probable losing streak will be around 13 or 17 based on the win% chart I have attached so I guess you really need to be on top of your game with stops etc....your risk per trade is going to be quite high so this is not good in my opinion of course.
> 
> Good luck and keep us all posted on how you do.



Thanks for that .
 I have read Nick Radges ebook.
Successful stock Trading .  
Excellent book with all the numbers done so you can assess your risk P/L Losing streaks equity curve...
etc
Longest Losing Streak during paper trading was 4 .
Longest winning streak was 6.
6 Losses in a row reaching their full stop will take account to $532
risk  gets smaller as account shrinks.
ie 1st  loss $ 1000-$ 100 risk  inc costs [max] = $900
2nd = $900 -$90 =$810
3rd = $810- $81  etc 
First trades are all at $ 100 Risk.
I understand the high risk involved . 
and can see why an account blow up is on the cards.
This is as close to punting as I will get
I would not take the same risk with a $10,000 account for example.
When [if]account is at $2000 [should be after more deposits]risk inc costs will still be $100 so %5
at $3000 account Max R is $100 inc costs so R will be 3.3%
$ 4000 R will be $100 or 2.5%
$5000 R will be $100 or %2 
So Lower Risk as account grows but more positions can be taken
If I do get  to my $532 limit then Trading stops and will start again differently .
[with larger acc]


1st Loss was $44 inc costs.
acc is currently 10% in profit after costs

Thanks for the warnings , and you can say " I told you so" if I fail.


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## Roller_1 (1 November 2017)

have you calculated your commission drag on your $1000 dollar account? How much commission (estimate) will you pay to get in and out of 1 trade do you know?


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## Triple B (1 November 2017)

Roller_1 said:


> have you calculated your commission drag on your $1000 dollar account? How much commission (estimate) will you pay to get in and out of 1 trade do you know?




Commissions are $10per trade for the trade sizes [up to about $2500]
finance cost on $2500 position is about 34c per night
I add cost into risk . So max $80 Risk is 8% of account + $ 20[2%] in /out = 10%  + $5 finance costs [14nights]. = 0.5%  so absolute max R per trade is 10.5 %
I use $25 costs per position  as costs as some will last a few days and others longer , the longer trades will be the ones at BE inc costs or in Profit. Non performers will be cut after 2weeks or sooner.
So costs are about 1% of position size the idea is to have the market move the aprox 1% to pay costs.
Trades have 2 B/E stop   levels. 1st is B/E exc costs [ie $25loss]   2nd includes costs.
[ie  $0 loss]
The p/L ratio for cost included vs cost not included is different is  so lets look at the difference.
Lets take a $2500 position for eg
Max Risk ex cost is $80  [8% of acc]  stop loss can be adjusted tighter  to get  larger pos size but if it need to be too tight I don't take the trade
Lets say we make 10% profit on Trade not inc Costs =$250
So Risk is 8% of Acc to Make 25% or R/R 3.125:1
So Now Same Trade inc Costs
Max  R 10.5% of Acc[8% R + 2.5% costs] Risk = $105    profit $250   - $25 Costs  = $225
= 2.14:1  R/R   .
So just in Profit with a
50%  win rate.Of Course we assume 10.5 is% lost per losing trade ,however as stops will be moved I expect Better R/R
Thanks


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## Triple B (1 November 2017)

OK 

Better post some Trades before they pile up.
I Intend updating this journal mainly on the weekend, after filling out the stats book. Old school pen and paper. May get an excel base journal later like this....
https://trading-journal-spreadsheet.com/purchase-download/ 

I am using Wyckoff method with simplified VSA .  Will continue  learning both as I believe they together can show the physcology and tactics of the big smart money . As they play on  the psyche of the weaker retail investor, the larger weaker institutions and the weaker traders .
I believe my "edge "is being able to see the market from the eyes and wallet of the weak retail investor,
From the perspective of the weak , trader  and the  Stronger traders both retail and institutions.
But most importantly from the  perspective of the Big smart Money. Combine this  with patience and 
a strategy that should reward patience while minimising risk as soon as possible I should be successful.
I also have the ability to stick to a plan long term . I generally do what I say I will do , but can take a while to get things done. but they get done well.

Will mainly be buying below  resistance , or after new support made and is tested . also stock needs to be in an uptrend for at least a year or coming up off a long period of accumulation.
prefer stocks at or near all time highs or at highest price for at least 5 years. as this should eliminate weaker holders at higher prices holding thins up with strong scared supply. allowing larger holders to withhold supply and let demand do its thing.
Will post more details with charts.

Feel free to offer constructive criticism.
I will take all on board but may not alter my plan . Does not mean its bad advice , but I need to be sure it fits into my way of doing things, and need to run my own show with this.
Thanks
Brendan


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## Modest (1 November 2017)

Triple B said:


> I am using Wyckoff method with simplified VSA




Hi mate, look forward to stopping by your thread as you progress. I can see you're on the right track already 

Good luck!


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## Triple B (1 November 2017)

So My First Trade on 19/10/17 Was
Santos
Energy sector seems to be where the money is at.
I use charts to compare sectors to the XJO. for strength
Mainly to reduce amount of charts to analyse and keep in the stronger sectors ,helping with demand side.
I can take trades in weaker sectors as this strong sector idea is not a hard rule .
we see Santos coming off long term lows, after a period of about 3 years accumulation.
	

		
			
		

		
	



From about Dec14
We can see and area of recent resistance at $4.60 then probable resistance at $5
I got on at $ 4.27 green arrow [put an at market order on overnight! then realised at lunch what I did and then fixed it] cost myself about $20 with that one]
Initial stop was $4.11 for  16c Risk
$80 risk /.16 = 500 @$4.27 = $2135.margin req $106.75
If STO Gets to $5 and stalls profit will be $365 - $25 costs = $340/$105 Risk  3.23:1
I will round trade sizes down to nearest 10 for easier maths when having quick check of prices at work 
Stop is now at    432 to be B/E including costs.
Will adjust Stop tonight to 437 to lock in $25 profit.
Stops are put below a point of decent support like jut below a largish bull candle  but well below an new area of support so as to not get stopped out by the tests of support.
STO


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## Triple B (2 November 2017)

Next AWC
Materials sector is in reasonable shape  especially from late july.
Made the same mistake with overnight market order as with STO
in at 236  In Stop at 228  for 8c risk   $80 risk /.08 =1000 x $2.36 = $2360  10% margin = $236
$80 Risk + $25 Costs =$105     Reward was hoping for min 10% so  $236 -$25 =$211
so 2:1 RR
But put stop at 236 for B/E + cos ts  moved the stop down  to 234   then stopped out!
Cost myself and extra $20 + $24costs .
Wont do that again .
As The duck Tech a said. Stops move UP not Down.
will keep an eye on AWC for possible re-entry


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## Triple B (2 November 2017)

24/10/17
 Long ,ALL
Consumer Discretionary  is about Neutral with XJO
ALL is at  highest price  for at least 5 years
UP trend From at least April 2016
Accumulators between $14 -$16  July 2016 - March 2017
Took  50% profits  between May -July  2017 to Set Up latest Re-Accumulation .
	

		
			
		

		
	



Am working on entry lower /earlier towards support. Then can sit and wait under Resistance with profits locked in
In $23.05  Init St  $22.35 = .80c R  $80 R +$25 Costs =$R 105   =10.5% of Acc
Stop now $22.60 Risk now $45 + $25 Costs+$ 70  =7%


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## Triple B (2 November 2017)

So That was my 1st week of trading my small Acc. 6 Days as started on a Thursday
Results were 
Fri 27/10/17
Profit on $6800 Positions [unrealised ]$146  2.14%
Profit on Acc  $146   14.6%
Costs  $38.74
Profit  on Acc after  costs $107.26   10.72%


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## Indoril (3 November 2017)

It's kind of hard to tell from your posts but it seems like you are leveraging quite a bit. 
If you are risking $80 per trade on a $1000 account then you better have a high win rate.


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## Triple B (3 November 2017)

Indoril said:


> It's kind of hard to tell from your posts but it seems like you are leveraging quite a bit.
> If you are risking $80 per trade on a $1000 account then you better have a high win rate.



Its $105 per trade inc costs. High risk Tolerance , High leverage low volatility ASX50
Stop trading at $500 loss
 Win rate 47%
From 1st Post:
Now I could trade up to $ 20000 with $1000 using 5% margin .[Don't do this!!]
But nothing left for margin calls and quick way to get your account closed !
Your broker does not want to have to chase you for margin!They will close your trade before that happens if they have the time!
So Will be using 5-10% margin Stocks with the same % left in Free equity for Margin Calls.
Therefore a 10% margin Stock will have 20%[ 10%+10%] in margin for the dreaded Gap Down.
This also means that The account will only ever be 50% in active margin with the other %50
Ready for any nasty crash or big gap down of one Stock


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## Triple B (3 November 2017)

So only 1 Trade this week ,ending 3/11/2017
CWY. In uptrend for at least a year 
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
 highest prices in 5 years min



So we can see there has been a test of the new support which resulted in below average volume.
So not too many stops triggered or sellers shaken out.
Entry was at Green arrow  $1.47    Init Stop at  $1.40  so 1100 Shares at 7c risk is $77 R= +$25 costs
=$102 Risk 
Will put  stop up to about $1.43 for Monday.
Just Want to keep it at 3 open trades at the moment. 
Next minor goal is $315 profit so I can have 3 trades at $105 Risk inc and still be B/E on account  if all full ,stops are hit.


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## Triple B (3 November 2017)

Fri 3rd Nov 2017
Have 3 Trade s open
ALL . bumping up towards $24 Resistance now  $23.70   In $23.05 Stop at $22.60 for $70 loss inc costs
STO . Again this one up to Resistance at $4.56   In at $4.27 x500 Stop now 437 for $25 profit after costs
CWY.  This one looks good.  in 147   Init St 140  x 1100 for $102 Risk .move st to  143 on Monday for $64 Loss inc costs.

That's currently $109 Risk  if they all stopped out
Acc GLV $1224.22 after costs
.
I am trading mainly the 50 x5% margin  Stocks With FP Markets . I thought these would be the ASX 50 . Turns out  not so.
So Trading ASX200 with mostly 5% Margin, will also take good 10% margin Trades.
The way I see it is that you will be charged finance on the position size anyway.
Might as well use max leverage on the least volatile stocks giving more trades for your $ and less chance of a quick large drop in price ,hitting your full stop .
Yes I understand the risk and thank everyone for their concern .
Of course I would not trade like this with a Lower risk Tolerance,[Larger account]
This is High Risk Trading. and can go pear shaped after just a few losers in a row . I am ok with this .


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## Triple B (10 November 2017)

FRI  10-11-2017 Week 3

Started week With  GLV$1234.40 after costs
By Tuesday Was up to $1372 With +$ 90 Risk!!
So Time for a couple trades.  at $105 risk each or about 7.5% of acc each

Just lost an hours posting so this will be short
Wed Long MGR 1100 @ 2.46
Stop now $2.46 for Risk of $25 Costs





Thursday IAG
Long 500@ 6.95
Tightish stop at $6.80
stop will stay there until new support is tested and price starts to increase







Then Today Friday
STO  was stopped out at $4.50 for $90 profit after costs
Dropped 6% in 2 day
I saw the TV news on Thursday night that STO had an investor presentation and the price dropped 3%!
It was a warning I didn't heed!!
 Instead of placing a limit order for next day  I just left stop thinking it cant drop again tomorrow can it! It did  3%  so From about 4.75 to 4.48 in 2 days.
Lesson learned and new Rule:
check asx watchlist at 10am for news symbol. read news headline at least , and if prices are dropping fast ring broker to close .

This was a rule I was considering  but didn't apply as I was wanting to isolate myself from news influencing my trading .
But is seems there is some news that cant be ignored. so checking the news notices and reading the headline at least , then checking prices for big dumps will be worth the small effort




So After Week 3

GLV  $1324.30 after costs
Profit before costs $434
Current Risk $110
with 4 trades on
2 At B/E before costs  ie $50 R
one at full $100 Risk
and CWY at $40 profit after costs.


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## Triple B (17 November 2017)

Week 4 ,   17-11-2017
Month 1

Closed 5 trades this week

Tuesday  and Wednesday   saw a sell off across the market .
CWY was Stopped out after a  3% drop in price for $66 Profit  or 4.1% profit on position size. -$23 costs
MGR stopped out after a 3% price drop for B/E on trade but a loss after $22.60 costs

Wed  ALL   Stopped out  after stop was moved up tight as trade was looking weak. gapped down a bit on open to give $10 loss after costs.

On Monday opened DXS and It dropped on open  first day and then gapped  down on open  on Tuesday ; this was a  Full stop out and a bit plus costs  for a $130 loss!

So this little love tap from the bear gave my little account a good smackdown.
Down to just below B/E at $995.

Had one position open IAG on Thursday and  put a sell limit order on For $7.20 which it just triggered today for $120 profit - costs.

Account now at $1030 And no positions open .
Cant keep trading when costs are 15% of account.
Here are the stats for the month

Full turn trades 7
Trades exclude costs
4 Wins   $318
2 Loss    $130
1 B/E
P/L      2.45:1

Costs $158 [rounded]
P/L After costs
$318   /   [$130+ $158 =$288]
P/L =1.1:1

So we can see profit before costs was[$318-$130] =$188 or 18.8% for the month
Costs were $158 or 15.8%!!! of Acc
Leaving a profit of  3% .Account is $1030.12
So as  was suggested to me earlier , this account is simply too small to trade profitably.
Perhaps if the market stayed bullish throughout this last week  I would have been looking at 30-40% [acc was at $1400 GLV at one stage]
profit before costs for the month. even then costs would kill me and Those numbers are not sustainable.
I was running numbers in my head today while working .
$3000 is probably the bare minimum as Peter suggested earlier.
With $150 costs per month [aprox 6-7 trades inc finance]which is  5% of acc   ,. B/E  on trades would mean 5% draw down or the cost of trades $150.
So to make any profit after costs would be looking to achieve over 5% profit on account
So I will give this another crack when the account is at $3000+
Getting smashed with bills at the moment so may be a few months  till I return.

Bye
Brendan


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## peter2 (18 November 2017)

I liked the post because I love it. Trading is a business and like all businesses you've got to include all the costs before posting the profits.

You gotta love these "bear taps". Open profits can disappear quickly. As you've seen most stocks fall when the index falls.

You'll also start to appreciate why I monitor the total downside exposure (heat) as this can change quickly with lots of open trades.

You're always going to be worrying about those open profits. Tighter TS's get triggered too often and looser TS's allow open profits to disappear. This is the balance that you must manage and you've got to do it in a consistent manner. A discretionary approach will be sabotaged by your psychological biases (recency and confirmation biases).

My suggestion is to decide what type of price movement you're trying to get and use the appropriate exit strategy to manage that in a consistent manner.

Good to see you're starting to really learn the "business".

ps: Get a spreadsheet organised so that all your details are updated easily and can be conveniently monitored.


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## Triple B (18 November 2017)

peter2 said:


> As you've seen most stocks fall when the index falls.



Yes . I checked on Wednesday night , and the number of stocks showing profit over the 2 day sell off was aprox 36 /199 [ASX 200]  so only about 18% showing profit over the 2 days.
So If you have say 5 open positions, chances are you will be taking losses on most positions during a bear attack!!





peter2 said:


> You'll also start to appreciate why I monitor the total downside exposure (heat) as this can change quickly with lots of open trades




Absolutely. If you are not aware of your total downside exposure , you cant be serious about your trading IMO.  Its simple maths and there is no excuse for not knowing your "heat".
I would calculate "heat ' every night. This allows you to take more trades,manage your profits too, and is the reason I did not blow up my account during the bear attack.
I even allowed a little  for gap downs , which as it turns out , was needed!  This is why the account only went $5 below $1000 for a day.  Even if all stops were hit,  3/4 were . My account would be at or near B/E at all times. A more conservative approach could have locked in profits at various amounts too.

As far as Trailing stops, I was pretty happy with the way I managed them . 
I use current support /mini support levels when in a trading range, and when trending I use the low of a previous bullish days candle . I also use ATR 2.5 on my charts to help as I found these levels match reasonably with my TS strategy.



peter2 said:


> My suggestion is to decide what type of price movement you're trying to get and use the appropriate exit strategy to manage that in a consistent manner.



Yes will work more on this while saving more $$
Am going to work on buying off support in trading ranges, this should give roughly  5 -15% profits on reward side in the trading range, and reduced Risk on the down side , especially when we have longer term investor buying pressure [up trend]
This can also be extra profitable if price pushes up through resistance or  " jumps the creek"
and turns into a "breakout"

I believe buying above a well tested support give you an edge .

My Idea is this:
A trade can move 3 Ways  , Up , Down , sideways.
We don't know which way it will go.
So we have a 33% chance of a trade going in any direction over a given time period.
If we can reduce the probability of a trade going in a particular direction [ie down when going long]
by using a sound entry strategy then we increase the probability of the trade going in the other two more desireable directions.

ie if buying slightly above a well tested support in a longer term up-trend reduces the chance of price dropping, by say 3% [ I don't yet know how to measure this] then we have a 30% chance of price dropping  and a 35% chance of going sideways , 35% chance of going up.
So in effect a 70% chance of a trade going break even or in profit .
Of course there are many other factors to consider , News events , market pressure etc that can blow these odds out of the water ,and we need to constantly monitor for them.


As far as spread sheets go I will need to either learn, [ have never really had the need to use them]
or purchase something similar to the one I posted a link to earlier.
Cant hurt to learn something new first and then decide if I want the slicker version.

Thanks for the feedback Peter


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## Triple B (30 September 2018)

OK . Figure I might as well continue this thread.
I have been trying to trade FX and Gold over the last few months.
While I lost $ over this period , I feel I gained a lot in experience . I am continuing to trade fx /Gold with a very small amount ,just a couple hundred bucks. Developing a strategy  that works, forwrd testing etc.
In the meantime its back to the ASX. Im kicking myself for going to FX and not continuing with Equities. I have paper trade success and a month in the market with equities all showing profit. Why stop!!! WTF was I thinking.
So I opened an acc with Trade direct 365. I have been trading since 18thSept. ASX only 
$5 per trade + funding .
$658 deposited so far acc is at $670. inc p/L
will be depositing more this week and $100 per week there after.
TD365 is a market maker! However market makers have the option of hedging risk. Not that they will with an account the size of mine. They also have guaranteed stops. good for a small account as insurance from the dreaded gap.I use the GS on all trades as you only pay if hit. so far none hit .
Also have not seen any shinanigans from the broker.
Still have FP Markets leveraged CFD acc, and also a non leveraged CFD acc which I will add to , to use for trade on equities that TD365 dont include.

Top Down approach .
US Market , Charts, Commodities charts .DXY  , AUS 200 charts including futures.  Sectors then individual stocks in the strongest sectors,
Joining uptrend in a breakout . or on support. [opposite for short]
Risk is $100 max per trade inc costs . 
Similar to my previous  trading ,however costs are now halved.
I have High risk tolerance , as this is money i can afford to lose.
I know I can blow up quickly risking this % of account .
The GS will be usually about $100 to $150 away from entry as there is a minimum distance of between 5% and 15 %.  So Sell orders[stop loss no guarantee] are made after buy orders are filled . These will be at no larger than $90 loss to allow for  the $10 in trading cost . to = $100 Risk.
I think I will post weekly brokers statement to save typing out the gory details.
Will still post charts and trade thoughts with those.
Look forward to sharing my Trading and continuing with the journey .
One reason for this thread is that its hard to find someone to share the journey with.
th Mrs show fake interest. One bloke at golf loves talking about it as he has some interest and has recently opened an acc with self wealth. he is also a programmer and has agrred to help me with python.
So feedback is welcome.
Brendan.


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## Triple B (30 September 2018)

OK 
Lets look at the US




As we can see Uptrends!! all is good with the US markets

The top 5 exports from Australia are 1. Iron Ore  2. Coal  3. Gold   4. Petrolium Gas  5.Aluminium Oxide
So It makes sense to me to keep an eye on these Commodities. Keeping an eye on these can also alert us to trades in the materials and resources sectors. 


https://au.investing.com/commodities/coal-cme-futures

Coal is going well! 

Gas is flat after some big recent action. day Trading aussie gas companies may have been interesting then.


Gold [my favourite]. The AUD /USD FX market seems to follow gold prices fairly well .



Also worth looking at oil prices as our energy sector follow that.
Remembering that all commodities are priced against the USD, It is worth looking at the USD index aka the DXY. The DXY compares the USD against a basket of Currencies .


So If the USD is strong and a commodity is strong against the USD I would infer that the commodity is showing signs of Strength. eg oil.
	

		
			
		

		
	




OK What about The ASX



Looks to me like a recovery after a sell off. From memory the sell off was around the Recent PM Knifing. [ As a point of interest , did you know Malcolm Turnbull was head of Goldman Sachs Australia]
No wonder he was initially reluctant for a banking royal commision, on his mates!! Cant believe labour didnt smash him with that !

The finance sector is by far the biggest sector on the ASX . So always worth taking that into consideration. The sector seems to be dragging the rest down , probably due to the Royal commission!
No wonder Malcolm was reluctant to have it. He of all people would know what it would do to the sector and the Market.Maximum uploads reached for this post. continued next post


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## Triple B (30 September 2018)

OK .
Finance sector looks like this


So On to the other Sectors. I dont look at commodities charts every day , except maybe gold or if there is news of a large commodity price change.
I do Look at the ASX Sector charts a few times a week.
This week I have found 4 of interest.
IT Sector , Energy , Materials , AREIT





We can see IT and energy look the strongest 
Materials look to be recovering[looks a lot like the gold chrart] and AREIT  has hit resistance.
Other sectors are starting recoveries too . I assess these after every days trading . does not take long.
Then I simply screen stocks in the sectors. using 3% positive price move over last 3 days [for strong sectors ]
opposite for weak. I would watch AREIT for a bounce off R then a reversal to break R before long positions are Taken. 
This Is a basic summary of what I call a top down fundamental analysis.Does not take long and gives me ideas of where the money might be on The ASX.
Next Some StockCharts


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## Triple B (1 October 2018)

So
Trades this week are :
Beach Energy BPT.   alredy in at 500 @ 2.005 stop at 2.03 now B/E inc costs GS @ 2.00 for -$15.73inc costs 
sell order for 200 @ 2.21 for $40 [should have had this on earlier in the week doh]
The other 300 when the market says get out

MYOB. bought 1000@ 3.05  now 3.02 -$30 GS @ 2.89 for $160loss  Stop loss at 2.96 for $100 loss inc costs.
Stop is tight . Probably went too big with this one, got exited
Sell order for 500 @ 3.15for $100win- Costs
another sell order right up at $3.80 for 500 for $425. longer term hold Must be dreaming

LNG bought 1000@0.69   GS @ 0.617 for $73 loss + $10costs  currently @ 0.685 -$5
sell order for 500 @ 0.80 for =$110 - $10 costs  then hold and see as there is no previous Resistance above 0.82

Have a Buy Stop order for
BVS  300@4.42  GS @ 3.97 for -$135 + costs of $10 + GS cost of $13.19 
if filled a sell order for 300 will be set at 4.12 for -$90 loss +costs
Take profit sell order will be set once I see the movement perhaps $5.00 target as no previou sResistance


So as you can see if GS orders are hit it will hurt but I will still have my small account.
If normal stops are hit $ 100 Gaawn. though I do move them up asap
If you are wondering how i can afford all these trades with such a small account I will explain.
When you put a trade on with this broker and you put a normal or GS stop loss order on, the margin required is the amount that will be lost if hit. So you only need to fork out that amount . if the trade moves against you the loss comes out of the initial margin. its a good idea  to have a couple  hundred bucks extra to cover commissions and GS charges if hit.
Current margin used is BPT $84.05      LNG $73  MYOB $135   BVS will be $135 until I put a sell order in ,then $90 leaving about $250 for commissions and GS charges if hit
So there you go. trading a small high risk cfd acc.SCARY huh?


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## Triple B (1 October 2018)

I should add that non GS stop loss orders require 20% extra margin . this is to add a buffer for slippage.
Lets say your notional position is $5000   the initial Margin required is 10%  so $500 [no stop placed]
 however place your stop [not guaranteed ] is placed $100 away  add 20% = $120   this is the required initial margin.
Not $500 as with other brokers.
I hope its ok to paste this:
Orders Aware Margin Attaching a Stop Loss Order to an Open Position can result in a reduction to the IMR. When a Stop Loss Order is placed, the system calculates Margin as 100% of the Stop Loss Order plus 20% of the IMR. The system will use this figure as the Margin if it is lower than the IMR. In other words, the most the system will take as Margin is the IMR but will use a lesser amount subject to proximity of an associated Stop Loss Order. It is important to note that a Stop Loss Order set by you is not guaranteed, it is subject to Gapping, an occurrence whereby the Quote moves from one price to the next price, through an Order level. In such circumstances your Stop Loss Order will be executed at the Quote based upon the first price that we are reasonably able to obtain in that Underlying instrument. This is the reason why 20% of the IMR is added to 100% of the Stop Loss Order to calculate Margin, to act as a buffer in the event of Gapping. If a Guaranteed Stop (GS) Order is placed as opposed to a Stop Loss Order, the system simply calculates the Margin as 100% of the GS Order. This is because there is no Gapping risk if you decide to use a GS Order. The system will still use the IMR if it is a lesser amount than 100% of the GS Order. Please refer to section 12.3 for more detail on GS Orders. The following three scenarios are used to illustrate how Margin is calculated:


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## Triple B (7 October 2018)

MYO hit full stop -$90+ $12costs howver received divs  of $57.50 so - $44.50
BPT hit TP sell 200 at 2.21= +$41 - $11 costs + $30profit   then BE inc costs at $2.03
LNG and BVS were both stopped out for small losses after I moved stops to BE not inc costs .
Also OM holdings was stopped out. for a loss.
anyway Total deposits are $1000. - $27.50 for asx data . account is now at $901.
This weeks focus on IT sector Materials and energy.
Scan is in these sectors as follows. 6month % move min 10%    21 day move min5%  5 day move min -3%.  looking for stocks in uptrend and incuding ones that may have pulled back in the last week.


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## Triple B (7 October 2018)

Ended up with 34 charts in the 3 sectors
18 possible trades,all now in watchlist. about 2 hrs work Sunday night.
another hour to place orders.

Buy limit orders with SL orders to hopefully catch the pullback before continuation of trend.
All trades if filled MINIMUM 2:1 p/L ratio to previous high or next significant round no. if above  all time highs.
take profit is usually by trailing stop below support or  hitting target if at previous high.
Here is the list: 5 more possibilities not provided by my broker
Materials;

DNK
PAN
NST
IPL
OMH
SAR


IT

APT
CPU
PPS
BVS
XRO
ENERGY
BPT
COE
STO
SXY
WPL
SOL
WHC

Here is an example green line is buy limit order . Red is SL. previous high back in sept 2014 at 43.50 can be seen on weekly chart. Many orders wont be filled and the things will take off without me .
The orders that are filled will be buys on support on a pullback in an uptrend in the strongest sectors.
This method keeps my grubby finger out of the action.I still get to pick the stocks , but the price determines the entry, not me.
Will post charts as orders get filled


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## Triple B (8 October 2018)

Triple B said:


> MYOB. bought 1000@ 3.05 now 3.02 -$30 GS @ 2.89 for $160loss Stop loss at 2.96 for $100 loss inc costs.
> Stop is tight . Probably went too big with this one, got exited
> Sell order for 500 @ 3.15for $100win- Costs
> another sell order right up at $3.80 for 500 for $425. longer term hold Must be dreaming






Triple B said:


> MYO hit full stop -$90+ $12costs howver received divs of $57.50 so - $44.50




 NO I Didnt get back in on Friday!


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## Triple B (9 October 2018)

so..    5 Buy limits filled 
BPT @ 2.05
OMH @ 1.60
SXY @0.50
WHC @ 5.55
APT@ 17.5  now closed @ 15.65 for -$64 -$10costs
As you can see heavy on the energy sector. which may be a good thing as oil looks to be moving up again as I type . [ have a small cfd long on brent.]
The above are all trend following trades.
will take a position in Origin energy at market tomorrow. and that more than enough energy  stocks.
Notices AREIT sector had a few positive movers today against overall market direction.
Will be looking more closely at some Ihave shortlisted in a minute.
Account is now at $806 . Really hurting on the missed MYOB trade. 
Gold bottom bouncing in Trading range wont be helping gold miners tomorrow,


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## Triple B (9 October 2018)

AREIT
DXS looks ready too take a running jump up over Resistance at 10.90
SCP stronger vol and positive closes right near support. looks ready to try to cross resistance again at 2.48. then 2.56 for all time highs. slow mover stop 10c away but may see some action when into new highs.
I suspect AREIT and Energy sectors may be the  Go To sectors if fear kicks in after the bearish market conditions of the last few days. With an eye on materials sector.
Cant take any more trades as fully invested ,although another $100 goes into the kitty on pay day, whenever that is!!


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## Triple B (13 October 2018)

Took a hit on thursday . was fully booked and got smashed down to $501.
closed all trades except OMH.  which is $24 in profit
Then thursday arfternoon took BPT short 1000 @1.84  now $1.79  + $50
Then Bought Saracen Minerals(gold miner) SAR 750@2.1  now 2.11 +$7.50
Account now at $548
Then remembered my rule about only having 3 positions open   at max Risk. ie $300 "heat " at any time.
I can move stops to take another position . 
Also instead of adding another $100 I decided to purchase  Trading Journal Spreadsheet. all markets version.
A very detailed trading spreadsheet that looks like the developer put a lot of work into.
Cost was $179USD  but also had to buy  EXCEL.  at $49 . I did try to use it with open office but as the developer writes , it only works with excel.
My spreadsheet was very ordinary and having 0 experience with spreadsheets before trading ,decided that the money spent would be worth it.
Raining hard here so no golf this morning . going to spend some time with the new software .
going  to be a grind to get back to BE. just need that one good trade


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## Triple B (14 October 2018)

This one might do the trick.
Going to scale in $50 at a time.I like scaling in when previous entry is at BE. this is what wyckoff suggested. If you get onto a good thing load up.follow it for weeks to months.
if scaling in at say 2% R per entry you canl be 6% R on one good trade but only 2% R at any one time. slightly less profit due to average entry price but the risk is minimised. eg 6R% x 3=18% of account size.

This is how I write up my charts when I not being lazy . This one uses less abbreviations than normal but Is to show What I look for . The rest of October will be focusing on finding good candidates for a "campaign"Need to pick trades like a sniper. and when Im right load up!(incrementally)


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## Triple B (14 October 2018)

Should add that nxt is about 11% short sold as of thursday . I look at this as ; short selling to help boost start of mark up as shorts are covered and also to help suppress prices as more supply is absorbed .
Also one of the directors bought on market.$44000@$6.29  on 6th Sept. on the 3rd day of break of support.ie Director catching the falling knife!
She also made an off market transfer of $200000 worth at $6.23 same day cant say whether that was a buy or sell??


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## peter2 (14 October 2018)

I'm no Wyckoff fan but his structure for accumulation is sound and shouldn't be abbreviated.

NXT shows the SC, AR and perhaps an initial ST?. There's bound to be another ST incorporating a spring near the level of the SC or after the next ST. Then we'd expect to see a HL. That's the time to buy an initial parcel, then add once price breaks the sloping trend line or breaks-out above the AR line.

There's also his nine tests for buying accumulation. I don't see that many of them have been met in this chart.

It's worth looking back in the NXT chart to see what happened to get the price going up. 
Mar16: Price formed a base over 12months, then good news created the "jump over the creek" and price took off. 
Feb17: Another good news gap after the first ST and price took off again once it got above the AR level.

There will be no doubt when the accumulation structure is formed and the nine buying tests are confirmed.


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## peter2 (14 October 2018)

Last week market antics created lots of selling climax's (SC). We anticipate that there'll be an automatic reaction (AR) next week. It'll be a while before we see the first STs and SOS's and the HLs that we both like.

All ARs are tricky to trade because they're based on emotion. If you're a true Wyckoff trader and short term cfd'er then you should be looking at the hourly charts for intra-day setups to get into these ARs that will start soon.


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## peter2 (14 October 2018)

Here's an intra day (1Hr) chart of SBM that had a selling climax earlier (Sep 25,26). You'll recognise the Wyckoff accumulation structure in this chart but it's impossible to see it in the daily chart. 

This structure will be there in a lot of charts in the next few weeks. They won't form in a week. If you're a keen W student you'll be itching to find them to give your cfd trading a great boost at the correct time.


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## Triple B (14 October 2018)

Gday Peter .
Thanks for that .
Im looking at longer timeframe . holding for a few weeks -a few months although you would not know it the way I have been in and out recently.not good.
i see this as a re accumulation over the last 10 months . although I can see how you can see accumulation  in the last month and would apply accumulation rules to that .
I marked a chart a bit differently to show more clearly my view.
Do you see what Im seeing ??? i like the way this is setting up and the candle on thursday was one of the few blue ones outside gold stocks.
Also like the Idea  of trading ARs over a shorter time period .not sure if thats practical at sounds like intra day trades would be most appropriate. Im working during the day.
appreciate the input


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## Triple B (14 October 2018)

Just so we all know what the 9 tests are .
as a note the ST does not have to hit the support made at the base of the SCLX. The ST that does not hit the SCLX low  then forms a new support. this will happen often when the bottom of the sclx is low vol ;therefore supply is flushed out and no need to test that low .  see 1hour chart (thanks for the suggestion Peter)


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## Triple B (21 October 2018)

Bit of a recovery after last weeks mess.
account now at $783  inc open positions
SAR has gone well bounce off daily 200ma then last weeks panic helped the gold price. certainly worth considering keeping a well performing gold miner as a form of hedge.
in at 2.10 now around 2.40  placed sell order at 2.50 for =+$300 expecting a bounce off round no and then consolidation , unless gold takes off again before target hit.

BPT Short at 1.84 stop now at BE target is 1.64 right on the 200ma in a longer term uptrend.
Has been strong support around that price before.

OMH is looking ok  although vol has dropped off. expecting a slow grind to $2.00 target
bought at $1.60 stop at $1.55 currently $38 in profit.

Bought KGN after support was tested  under trading range,longer term up trend.
intend to scale into this if it starts to work out . currently only 50 at 5.315 and now showing -$18
stop ptetty tight at 4.55 . 

Lastly NXT bought 100 at 6.12 (against good advice ,sorry Peter2) showing $24 profit
had been holding and gaining  ground in the weak market last week.looks like second test of support on daily chart was good. looking for a jump over 200ma and $6.50. if this happens then stop to BE
and another 1/3 scaled in 



Managed to keep my itchy fingers off the buttons all week after the 2 buy orders on monday (NXT KGN)  focusing on minimising the heat which with all stops hit tomorrow would be $110.
If my 3 TP targets are hit this week I will be in profit overall.


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## barney (21 October 2018)

Only just read this thread …. Well done @Triple B for your obvious attention to detail thus far


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## Triple B (21 October 2018)

barney said:


> Only just read this thread …. Well done @Triple B for your obvious attention to detail thus far




wait till you see my spreadsheet!


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## barney (21 October 2018)

Triple B said:


> wait till you see my spreadsheet!


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## Triple B (28 October 2018)

Ok folks .
Made a bit of a recovery last week.
Acc back to $855 with 2 trades open at a loss of $23
Closed OMH -$22.50
Closed KGN  - ..............hangon , Ive got a fandangled spreadsheet to show ya...
I have been thinking about how Im using the CFD acc.
After trading FX and using my potential edge over and over again every night , I started to think about how long 100 trades would take on the CFD account. about a year at around 2 per week.
Prior paper trading I made 100 trades in 6 months roughly.
Non leveraged the first time in the sideways market of mid last year was about 8% over 3 months.
2nd time in the ASX game was 11% over around the same period.
So why am I not trading the same way now?
Win % was 49% the first time and 70% second go!
So I am going to give this account a workout .
Reducing R to 5% aiming for 50% win and a pay off Ratio of 2.5.
Trying to take 5+ positions a week. holding for around a week or more for the good performers.
Watching the guys here(traders) that have shown to be profitable, they dont sit around for weeks waiting for the thing to move while invested.They watch , wait for the move , then jump in , Thats what Ive been doing ,waiting , hoping .
Anyway here is the spread sheet . The first line(B4TJS) is all the trades i took before I got the spreadsheet.
just counting that as one big loss. Will skew the Nos a bit but should not make a big difference after 100 trades.
went a bit crazy with BHP short position , will halve that with an order shortly.
long on RRL (Gold miner) might keep that as I believe gold is ready to pop this week another $10 or so into $1240s. Would be nice as BE  hedge for longs .


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## peter2 (28 October 2018)

Much better, I can see that your trading mindset is slowly evolving to the correct outlook. The fancy spreadsheet has you thinking about the averages rather than individual results. Each trade now is only another in a batch of trades. It's easier to cut the losers and let the winners run when you're thinking of the end result (overall profitability).


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## Triple B (28 October 2018)

Yes , playing with the expectancy tool (100trades) also got me thinking.
 had around a 2.75:1 pL ratio with 49% win rate on paper. Most of those winning trades were over a week or 2.
why not exploit that over 100 trades in say 20 weeks rather than 50!
Take the meat out of the moves and get out.over and over..........


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## Triple B (28 October 2018)

Just put some orders in
BHP buy back 35 above 31.05 to reduce R to $55
Short BLD 125 @ $5.80 Limit
Short PNI 150 @  $5.50 Limit  
Both look weak as... with plenty of room to next support.
Not expecting the market to recover this week. will re assess tomorrow and look at a couple longs if there is a solid bounce.
Also checked ex div dates . Dont want to pay Divs!


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## Triple B (15 November 2018)

Have not been Trading this account for a while . No time while I focus on FX/ Gold intra day. Was down to $600. Now using the funds to trade Gold. Might be a good while before i concentrate on ASX. Plenty of Forward testing to do on FX and only so many hours in a day.
So for now this thread is dead


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