# The ScoMo Government



## sptrawler (24 August 2018)

Well the SMH, will have to get all guns blazing, before the next election.
If they want to have any hope, of getting a Shorten led Labor, over a Morrison led Liberals.
Let the war begin.
Can't wait to see the first polls come in, my guess a BIG rebound, in Lib support.


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## wayneL (25 August 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Well the SMH, will have to get all guns blazing, before the next election.
> If they want to have any hope, of getting a Shorten led Labor, over a Morrison led Liberals.
> Let the war begin.
> Can't wait to see the first polls come in, my guess a BIG rebound, in Lib support.



It won't be from me.


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## CanOz (25 August 2018)

Labor voter Wayne? Greens?


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## drsmith (25 August 2018)

After the past week in particular, the new PM and deputy will need to rebuild trust with the electorate that his party can continue to govern and critical to that, that it's a united team. That won't be easy, but one difference between this coup and the previous one's against the sitting PM is that the assassin didn't get the gig. One can only hope that this leaves less bad blood within the party as a result.

ScoMo and JF will need time to rebuild that trust and improved polling in my view and ScoMo gave the hint yesterday that he's in no hurry to go to an election.

Sportsbet have a market who will be preferred PM on this weekend's Newspoll and has Bill Shorten in front at $1.70 to ScoMo at $2.15.


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## Logique (25 August 2018)

Peter Dutton would have been a tough sell in the southern, especially the mendicant states. And being in a marginal seat, he'll have to spend a lot of time at home in his electorate.

If Scott Morrison is smart, he'll recall how close was the leadership ballot 40-45, and steer Coalition policies accordingly. Coalition voters want a point of difference, not Labor Lite.


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## SirRumpole (25 August 2018)

Logique said:


> Coalition voters want a point of difference, not Labor Lite.




Yes I agree. The further Right the Coalitions policies are, the less the electorate likes them.

So Scomo should go as far Right as he can, although the Libs will pretend they are family friendly until the election and after that if they win it will be back to Medicare co payments and tax cuts for the rich.


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## ghotib (25 August 2018)

drsmith said:


> After the past week in particular, the new PM and deputy will need to rebuild trust with the electorate that his party can continue to govern and critical to that, that it's a united team. That won't be easy, but one difference between this coup and the previous one's against the sitting PM is that the assassin didn't get the gig.



True, but the real assassin is still in the parliament and IMO the coalition won't win the trust of voters until he's gone.


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## luutzu (25 August 2018)

I'm getting a sense of switch&bait here, again, three times now. 

The party in power make policies that aren't very popular with the masses; their polling numbers show plebeian discontent. What is a party of public servants to do? Change policies? Make good on their promises to regain the votes? 

Nah... stuffed that.

Let's just replace the head of the party. Make a new pledge. Promise change, hope, new beginning, fresh start, new innovation and better leadership/servitude.

Rinse. Repeat. 

Used to be some sort of accountability every four years. The plebs get to have a say. Now it's just scapegoating. Seem to be working too.


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## Knobby22 (25 August 2018)

ghotib said:


> True, but the real assassin is still in the parliament and IMO the coalition won't win the trust of voters until he's gone.



That is very true.
I can't trust the Libs anymore until they get rid of him. He has a whole TV and newspaper network backing him against his own party.


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## TikoMike (25 August 2018)

Interesting, so now one of his first moves is to invite Trump into our country. I wonder if "stop the boats" ScoMo will be going back to his conservative values now that he is no longer under Turnbull's shadow? 

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...onald-trump-to-australia-20180825-p4zzq6.html


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## noirua (25 August 2018)

It does seem that the Aussie Government is trying to outdo the UK Government in pathetic, useless, muddled, jumbled, and trying to destroy itself in continuous infighting - a government divided against itself cannot stand. Not as bad as the UK Government but getting ever closer - the cliff edge approaches.

Getting the support of ScoMo was the kiss of death.


*Lincoln's House Divided Speech*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln's_House_Divided_Speech

A house divided against itself, cannot stand. I believe this government cannot endure, permanently, half slave and half free. I do not expect the Union to be dissolved — I do not expect the house to fall — but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing or all the other. Either the opponents of slavery will arrest the further spread of it, and place it where the public mind shall rest in the belief that it is in the course of ultimate extinction; or its advocates will push it forward, till it shall become lawful in all the States, old as well as new — North as well as South.


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## SirRumpole (25 August 2018)

noirua said:


> It does seem that the Aussie Government is trying to outdo the UK Government in pathetic, useless, muddled, jumbled, and trying to destroy itself in continuous infighting - a government divided against itself cannot stand. Not as bad as the UK Government but getting ever closer - the cliff edge approaches.




The coup was a stupid and ideological assassination by stupid ideological people.


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## sptrawler (25 August 2018)

It would appear by the post's, most are pro Labor, the next election should be a foregone conclusion.
This an investment forum and most appear to lean toward Labor, that would indicate the Libs have no hope.
Or this forum is out of touch, interesting times.


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## PZ99 (25 August 2018)

sptrawler said:


> It would appear by the post's, most are pro Labor, the next election should be a foregone conclusion.
> This an investment forum and most appear to lean toward Labor, that would indicate the Libs have no hope.
> Or this forum is out of touch, interesting times.



Funny you should say that.
When the franking credit debate was on  I only saw it here, HC and Whirlpool.
No where else either knew or cared.


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## explod (25 August 2018)

In my view Dutton was a blank cannon fire to try and make the final outcome appear civilised.

With the election not far away it was a desperate but clever plan.  However in the end they are collectively empty and on the nose to the electorate IMHO


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## sptrawler (25 August 2018)

PZ99 said:


> Funny you should say that.
> When the franking credit debate was on  I only saw it here, HC and Whirlpool.
> No where else either knew or cared.



Like I said, interesting times, because many agree with the Labor concept.


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## So_Cynical (25 August 2018)

Scomo kind of comes out of this debacle as a clean skin, electorally i dont think it hurts him much, the LNP is a different story - has to hurt them collectively, Scomo has maybe 12 months to turn the ship around...lets see.


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## Smurf1976 (26 August 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Like I said, interesting times, because many agree with the Labor concept.



I'm not so much in favour of Labor as I am against the Liberals at this point.

To me it's just too blatant that the Liberals are governing for the benefit of a select few and not the majority. Plus I'm truly fed up with the standard routine:

Bash those legitimately receiving welfare whilst presiding over stagnant wages and workforce casualisation.

Remind us they stopped asylum seekers whilst running record rates of immigration.

Doing nothing about housing affordability for the young whilst handing out welfare to the middle class.

And so on. Same pattern with everything and as someone who's always rejected elitism it seriously grates.

Oh for the days of Hawke / Keating and their Liberal opponents who actually engaged in serious debate about stuff that mattered. Both sides were of a much higher standard a generation ago. Whilst I perceive Labor to be less bad that doesn't mean I'm saying they're good or that I've got any real confidence in them. My expectation is they'll fix _something_ but not most things.


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## Smurf1976 (26 August 2018)

PZ99 said:


> Funny you should say that.
> When the franking credit debate was on  I only saw it here, HC and Whirlpool.
> No where else either knew or cared.



That's the one thing which, if the Liberals were clever enough, might get them back some votes so long as they focus on the lower income losers from Labor's plan not the higher income lowers.


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## Tisme (26 August 2018)

To me, Scott is like that 2 week aunty visitor who comes to Mum's home and sets about hijacking the table conversation, talking endlessly about her unique insight into all things, including fantastic infarcations about the family history.


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## SirRumpole (26 August 2018)

Tisme said:


> To me, Scott is like that 2 week aunty visitor who comes to Mum's home and sets about hijacking the table conversation, talking endlessly about her unique insight into all things, including fantastic infarcations about the family history.




And generates massive amounts of bs on the way.


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## overhang (26 August 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Well the SMH, will have to get all guns blazing, before the next election.
> If they want to have any hope, of getting a Shorten led Labor, over a Morrison led Liberals.
> Let the war begin.
> Can't wait to see the first polls come in, my guess a BIG rebound, in Lib support.




You are so fixated on Fairfax, I mean it makes sense you're a self confessed coalition voter yet this is the front pages of the Murdoch stable yesterday. https://i.redd.it/nz2qr0h0g5i11.jpg
4 of those portraying a lovely family portrait as though he was just democratically elected by the public vote and not the blood bath that took place in the Liberal party room only hours earlier.   I don't know how things are in W.A but the Herald Sun in Victoria has a large influence.  It's what the bogans read who don't give a stuff about politics as to their credit the HS does have great AFL coverage.  They have now been in full elect Mathew Guy mode for a few months now.


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## sptrawler (26 August 2018)

Tisme said:


> To me, Scott is like that 2 week aunty visitor who comes to Mum's home and sets about hijacking the table conversation, talking endlessly about her unique insight into all things, including fantastic infarcations about the family history.



With your terrific litereral skills I would love to hear your analysis of silly Billy.


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## sptrawler (26 August 2018)

overhang said:


> You are so fixated on Fairfax, I mean it makes sense you're a self confessed coalition voter yet this is the front pages of the Murdoch stable yesterday. https://i.redd.it/nz2qr0h0g5i11.jpg
> 4 of those portraying a lovely family portrait as though he was just democratically elected by the public vote and not the blood bath that took place in the Liberal party room only hours earlier.   I don't know how things are in W.A but the Herald Sun in Victoria has a large influence.  It's what the bogans read who don't give a stuff about politics as to their credit the HS does have great AFL coverage.  They have now been in full elect Mathew Guy mode for a few months now.



I don't even look at the Murdoch papers, and cant stand Bolt, Jones and co.
I just find Fairfax annoying because of their blatant bias, other than that I find them a great read.
Actually if it wasn't for the obvious political bias, I would probably subscribe to them.


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## overhang (26 August 2018)

Smurf1976 said:


> To me it's just too blatant that the Liberals are governing for the benefit of a select few and not the majority. Plus I'm truly fed up with the standard routine:




I don't believe I've ever seen a government so willing to ignore expert advice they receive, it's like they commission these reports in hope that they'll justify the direction they want to take due to ideology and when the report doesn't they just go ahead with their policy direction regardless.  I think the reef rort sums up this Liberal government, all against welfare for the most vulnerable and all for corporate welfare.  They gave $444 million without any type of tender process to a organisation with only 6 employees.  They gifted $30 million to Murdochs Foxtel without a shred of paperwork to be found outlining conditions or evidence on why they should receive the grant.


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## overhang (26 August 2018)

sptrawler said:


> I don't even look at the Murdoch papers, and cant stand Bolt, Jones and co.
> I just find Fairfax annoying because of their blatant bias, other than that I find them a great read.
> Actually if it wasn't for the obvious political bias, I would probably subscribe to them.




Fair enough, does Fairfax printed press have a large sway in W.A?  I won't deny they are left leaning but I feel they are closer to center and News Corp and The Guardian are just direct opposites with blatant partisanship.


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## Tisme (26 August 2018)

sptrawler said:


> With your terrific litereral skills I would love to hear your analysis of silly Billy.




The trouble is I have so much bias against Penny, Tanya and the spectre of being forced to be a homosexual by Billy I don't know if I can give a negative critique.


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## Tink (26 August 2018)

TikoMike said:


> Interesting, so now one of his first moves is to invite Trump into our country. I wonder if "stop the boats" ScoMo will be going back to his conservative values now that he is no longer under Turnbull's shadow?
> 
> https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...onald-trump-to-australia-20180825-p4zzq6.html


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## sptrawler (26 August 2018)

overhang said:


> Fair enough, does Fairfax printed press have a large sway in W.A?  I won't deny they are left leaning but I feel they are closer to center and News Corp and The Guardian are just direct opposites with blatant partisanship.



No, the only paper over here is the West Australian and the Australian, neither are any good IMO, so I usually just browse the free content on the SMH and sport on the Age
I am generally a Lib voter, but not rusted on, used to be rusted on Labor, but through life,s experiences have been disappointed with their blatant two faced attitude.
I,ve found when the Libs are in Labor and the unions keep them honest, when Labor are in the unions help them screw the plebs over, it becomes a free for all IMO.


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## SirRumpole (26 August 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Jones and co.
> I just find *Fairfax *annoying because of their blatant bias, other than that I find them a great read.
> Actually if it wasn't for the obvious political bias, I would probably subscribe to them.




Biased in which direction do you think ?


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## Triathlete (26 August 2018)

sptrawler said:


> I am generally a Lib voter, but not rusted on, used to be rusted on Labor, but through life,s experiences have been disappointed with their blatant two faced attitude.
> I,ve found when the Libs are in Labor and the unions keep them honest, when Labor are in the unions help them screw the plebs over, it becomes a free for all IMO.




Same started following Hawke/Keating then moved to Howard/Costello after their first term and found this 20 years of politics quite good for the country imo of course.

To me it has all been downhill since 2007 and getting worse......I certainly will not be voting for any of the major parties or the Greens at the next election that is for sure.....


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## SirRumpole (26 August 2018)

Julie Bishop has resigned from Cabinet.

Will she contest the next election ? Doubtful.


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## Country Lad (26 August 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Julie Bishop has resigned from Cabinet.
> Will she contest the next election ? Doubtful.




I don't think so.  She is apparently totally pi$$ed off that not one of her WA colleagues supported her in the ballot.  Pity, she was a good foreign minister.


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## sptrawler (26 August 2018)

Country Lad said:


> I don't think so.  She is apparently totally pi$$ed off that not one of her WA colleagues supported her in the ballot.  Pity, she was a good foreign minister.



I certainly think she found her niche in that role, but I never thought she would fit the PM role, not quick enough on the run. IMO


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## IFocus (26 August 2018)

Smurf1976 said:


> I'm not so much in favour of Labor as I am against the Liberals at this point.




Pretty much sums it up I think

How long can the Coalition keep talking about helping the Aussie battler then strip money/conditions etc from the masses while handing out corporate welfare.

Scomo is a leading figure in this ruse I think at this rate Labor just have to turn up for the next drovers dog election if the Coalition keep it up.


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## Craton (26 August 2018)

Spoiler -> Rant Ahead.

Agree that JB does/did a fantastic job as Foreign Minister, pity she's calling it quits but with all that in-house bickering and school boy favouritism, is it any wonder?

As a swinging voter, sure policies are important but I am swayed to a certain extent by the strength and depth of character of the party leader. After all, that leader is our country's representative and our face to the world. Dumbo, sorry, Dutton has none of those qualities IMHO. Scott Morrison and so too Julie Bishop have those qualities in spades over Dumbo, sorry, Dutton. 

I'd say ScoMo's real challenge (behind the scenes) is to keep TA and his cronies in line and stop them from scuttling the ship...again.

FWIW. It is a real pity that Turnbull couldn't get the big end of town company tax cuts through. The average punter (voter) needs to see these cuts not as further lining exec's pockets but vital and necessary to keep Australia economically healthy and competitive on so many fronts.

As a micro business owner the tax cuts my business is now enjoying has allowed me to employ a new to the workforce 20yr job seeker. This is that person's first tax paying job so not only gaining valuable work experience and training but returning those govt. tax cuts by way of PAYG and GST taxes. Further, there's the Super contributions which help in the longer term to take the Pension burden off the tax payer. Business owners will know of the other on costs, insurance, workers comp etc all adding to stimulating our economy to the positive. Not to mention, this one worker now has a disposable income. Fuel, food, treats, car maintenance, white goods, retail and so on all benefit from that one little tax cut for my business.

Surely the average punter must realize that the big end of town tax cuts will be advantageous to all Australians?
So what if those cuts go to the shareholders. The big end of town has the big fundies on the register. Yep, that's where most of our Super is so isn't that a win/win?
I'd hazard a guess that jobs would be more secure too. The spins offs are fair more positive than negative however the majority of the electorate and pollies alike don't see it that way. More Dumbo's at work...

I suppose now too that so few Aussies have the altruistic attitude of decades ago where building the nation equals a more affluent lifestyle. It is a real pity that the mindset seems to be one of entitlement instead of participant.

ScoMo has a lot of work to do before we vote again that's for sure but with the mindset that I see, if he wins, it'll be against all odds.


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## IFocus (26 August 2018)

Craton said:


> Surely the average punter must realize that the big end of town tax cuts will be advantageous to all Australians?
> .




This is only true if you have tax reform.........not just tax cuts to the big end.

Who makes up the shortfall in revenue that includes the big spends on the Coalition polices?

Do we do a Trump and rack up another $trl in debt?

I fully support tax cuts to small business.


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## Craton (26 August 2018)

IFocus said:


> *This is only true if you have tax reform*.........not just tax cuts to the big end.
> 
> Who makes up the shortfall in revenue that includes the big spends on the Coalition polices?
> 
> ...




Yes, I failed to note that MT stated time and time again tax reform was needed and yes those cuts are/were part of it.

Racking up debt?
I'll leave that for the economists and politicians to debate over. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_government_debt

Yep, small business is one big employer with a lot of red tape to cut through without having the resources at their disposal like their bigger cousins. They/we need all the breaks we can get.


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## PZ99 (26 August 2018)

_"I'm not pretending to know one end of a sheep from another," LOL

https://www.news.com.au/national/br...d/news-story/c6cfa245846019f931c0ae2f6f718ef3_

 I heard a rumour ole Scotty once entered a sheep at the royal easter show...


Spoiler



.._.just behind the Hordern Pavilion somewhere_


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## Smurf1976 (26 August 2018)

Craton said:


> FWIW. It is a real pity that Turnbull couldn't get the big end of town company tax cuts through. The average punter (voter) needs to see these cuts not as further lining exec's pockets but vital and necessary to keep Australia economically healthy and competitive on so many fronts.
> 
> As a micro business owner the tax cuts my business is now enjoying has allowed me to employ a new to the workforce 20yr job seeker. This is that person's first tax paying job so not only gaining valuable work experience and training but returning those govt. tax cuts by way of PAYG and GST taxes.



It's great that you've chosen to employ someone but sadly I see quite a few businesses where the approach is to minimise wages and staff numbers, offshoring where possible, meanwhile shareholder returns are mediocre at best whilst the directors and CEO reap the benefits. Sadly that's not one or two outliers but rather common, hence the growing disparity between the director and CEO class and everyone else including shareholders and workers.

Those who claim that it's not viable to do x in Australia and slowly go broke, only to be shown as fools when someone from overseas buys the business and turns it completely around, are another lot in the same category. Commonsense says they're worse than worthless if someone else can easily turn around what they can't and yet such people manage to spend half their career as director or CEO of something whilst being paid a ridiculous amount to slash employment and deliver mediocre returns to shareholders over and over.

We were better off back in the days when being at the top required having spent many years working for the company with the reward being that you were now paid 3 times a normal wage not 300 times.

So as I said, it's great if you're running a successful business and creating employment but sadly there's a lot of bigger operators who are doing their best to minimise tax, jobs, wages and pretty much everything other than executive pay.


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## luutzu (26 August 2018)

Tink said:


>





"Mateship" 

Good one.


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## luutzu (26 August 2018)

Smurf1976 said:


> It's great that you've chosen to employ someone but sadly I see quite a few businesses where the approach is to minimise wages and staff numbers, offshoring where possible, meanwhile shareholder returns are mediocre at best whilst the directors and CEO reap the benefits. Sadly that's not one or two outliers but rather common, hence the growing disparity between the director and CEO class and everyone else including shareholders and workers.
> 
> Those who claim that it's not viable to do x in Australia and slowly go broke, only to be shown as fools when someone from overseas buys the business and turns it completely around, are another lot in the same category. Commonsense says they're worse than worthless if someone else can easily turn around what they can't and yet such people manage to spend half their career as director or CEO of something whilst being paid a ridiculous amount to slash employment and deliver mediocre returns to shareholders over and over.
> 
> ...




Most CEO nowadays comes from Finance or Sales rather than from engineering or operation.

While not all financial managers make bad CEO, when your background is finance, it's hard to see the need to build stuff when you can either outsourced it, played gov't regulation/subsidies/anti-trust etc. to monopolise, merge, destroy competition to seek rent rather than build or innovate.

That and if a person doesn't rise from the ranks, it's going to be hard to see the usefulness or brain trust in much of that "labour". Labour become a cost that either need to be offshore, onshore, or turn into replaceable cogs you hire then fire as the business cycle dictate. 

But then why innovate when you can milk the old cow to death.


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## sptrawler (26 August 2018)

Well the one major assett Morrison has, is Shorten, that will be the crucial beach head for Morrison.
He isnt Bill light, as Turnbull came over as, how Scott and Bill shape up, will be the thing that shapes the election. IMO


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## SirRumpole (27 August 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Well the one major assett Morrison has, is Shorten, that will be the crucial beach head for Morrison.
> He isnt Bill light, as Turnbull came over as, how Scott and Bill shape up, will be the thing that shapes the election. IMO




The polls have really rebounded allright, for Labor. 

LNP 46%  ALP 55%.

Shorten is now PREFERRED PRIME MINISTER.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/na...e/news-story/cf52dcfdfdd80c5f0e28c27a9e9557b0


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## dutchie (27 August 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Shorten is now PREFERRED PRIME MINISTER.




Woe is me.
Woe is Australia.


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## Junior (27 August 2018)

Libs brought this all on themselves.  Should have united behind Turnbull until after the election, and then knifed him at that stage if they really needed to.


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## SirRumpole (27 August 2018)

Junior said:


> Libs brought this all on themselves.  Should have united behind Turnbull until after the election, and then knifed him at that stage if they really needed to.




They wouldn't have to knife him because if Turnbull lost the election he would have quit, had he won there would be no need to knife him.


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## sptrawler (27 August 2018)

I still think it is better for Australia,to have a Labor Party and a Liberal Party, rather than having both trying to copy each other.
That just leads to populist policy, that leads to nothing except inept Government. IMO


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## Junior (27 August 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> They wouldn't have to knife him because if Turnbull lost the election he would have quit, had he won there would be no need to knife him.




This is too logical.


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## sptrawler (27 August 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> The polls have really rebounded allright, for Labor.
> 
> LNP 46%  ALP 55%.
> 
> ...



I would prefer that, than another 10 years of hung Parliaments.
It is far better to have a decisive decision with regards the power situation, than do nothing at all, as is happening currently.
At least the issues will be brought to a head and something can become about it, the ridiculous dancing around the issue as has happened recently, just wasted precious time.


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## SirRumpole (27 August 2018)

sptrawler said:


> I would prefer that, than another 10 years of hung Parliaments.




I have to agree. I'm getting a bit tired of the freak show in the Senate, and I'm going to vote for the same Party in both houses and hope that whoever wins they can get their policies through.


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## Smurf1976 (27 August 2018)

sptrawler said:


> I still think it is better for Australia,to have a Labor Party and a Liberal Party, rather than having both trying to copy each other.
> That just leads to populist policy, that leads to nothing except inept Government. IMO



To have a strong government requires that we also have an effective opposition in my view since otherwise they end up becoming lazy. Same applies regardless of who the government and opposition actually are.

So yes, an effective Labor party and an effective Liberal party are what we need. It wouldn't hurt if the Greens or someone else became a stronger force too, if only to keep the main two accountable.


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## Logique (27 August 2018)

The Morrison government is better than the alternative. 

The horrors of a Shorten government may scarcely be imagined. Unless people actually like electricity blackouts, burgeoning immigration detention centres, overflowing public hospitals, taxed empty pockets, pensioner tax and runaway national debt. 

All of these Labor will deliver, while pretending it's for our own good, as Australia morphs into 'New Venezuala'.


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## wayneL (27 August 2018)

Smurf1976 said:


> To have a strong government requires that we also have an effective opposition in my view since otherwise they end up becoming lazy. Same applies regardless of who the government and opposition actually are.
> 
> So yes, an effective Labor party and an effective Liberal party are what we need. It wouldn't hurt if the Greens or someone else became a stronger force too, if only to keep the main two accountable.



If you have a strong Greens then you need an equally strong extremist party on the right.... as equally far right as they are far left. There is PHON, KAP,  LDP & ACs,  but none of them cut the mustard in the extremist stakes like the Greens.


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## Tisme (27 August 2018)

Scotty a Manchurian Candidate?


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## SirRumpole (27 August 2018)

Tisme said:


> Scotty a Manchurian Candidate?




It's such a shame that people like Alan Jones don't have more influence in the community.


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## sptrawler (27 August 2018)

This article on the ABC website, should give the Government something to think about.
What people really spend their money, and how hard they are doing it.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-...-to-biggest-household-expenses-chart/10148524

I can see why "those who can afford it least" are struggling.


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## sptrawler (27 August 2018)

Sounds as though the media, is already starting to struggle, with roping a politician for a cheap headline.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/20...bate-for-another-day-on-drought-tour/10168860

The section I found interesting, when being pushed on 'climate change':
_"I know what you are trying to ask and I don't think that's part of this debate. That's my point.

"If people want to have a debate about that, fine.

"It's not a debate I've participated a lot in, in the past, because I'm practically interested in the policies that will address what is going on here, right now.
_
It would appear Morrison is an unusual politician, he knows when to shut up.


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## IFocus (27 August 2018)

Logique said:


> The Morrison government is better than the alternative.
> 
> The horrors of a Shorten government may scarcely be imagined. Unless people actually like electricity blackouts, burgeoning immigration detention centres, overflowing public hospitals, taxed empty pockets, pensioner tax and runaway national debt.
> 
> All of these Labor will deliver, while pretending it's for our own good, as Australia morphs into 'New Venezuala'.




Haha LOL and that's before you get to plagues and pestilence

Shorten is just Liberal lite more of the same.


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## Smurf1976 (27 August 2018)

Logique said:


> The horrors of a Shorten government may scarcely be imagined. Unless people actually like electricity blackouts



On the specific question of electricity it would be a huge challenge for any government to avert problems at this late stage without resorting to a wartime approach which suspends most normal processes, from finance to environmental, and just makes things happen no matter what.

I doubt either side of politics will actually go down that track.


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## sptrawler (27 August 2018)

Smurf1976 said:


> On the specific question of electricity it would be a huge challenge for any government to avert problems at this late stage without resorting to a wartime approach which suspends most normal processes, from finance to environmental, and just makes things happen no matter what.
> 
> I doubt either side of politics will actually go down that track.



The problem is smurph, by your prognosis, they will have to bite the bullet and go down some track.
More of the same and lack of action, doesn't sound like an option, in the near future.


----------



## sptrawler (27 August 2018)

IFocus said:


> Haha LOL and that's before you get to plagues and pestilence
> 
> Shorten is just Liberal lite more of the same.




There is a reason a lot dislike him IMO, most have met someone like him in their lives. He comes over to me, as that mate that is your best friend, until you are no longer any use to him.
Just my opinion.


----------



## TLS (27 August 2018)

A


Smurf1976 said:


> On the specific question of electricity it would be a huge challenge for any government to avert problems at this late stage without resorting to a wartime approach which suspends most normal processes, from finance to environmental, and just makes things happen no matter what.
> 
> I doubt either side of politics will actually go down that track.




Well I'm an eternal optimist that our elected ministers are there to look after ordinary Aussies rather than their own back pocket,  yep I'm bound to be disappointed.

So ... Electricity pieces being capped at a price that doesn't exceed the CPI is a no brainier to me. Same could be said for private health insurance, fuels prices etc.


----------



## sptrawler (27 August 2018)

TLS said:


> A
> 
> 
> Well I'm an eternal optimist that our elected ministers are there to look after ordinary Aussies rather than their own back pocket,  yep I'm bound to be disappointed.
> ...




I will send you a picture of the flock of pigs, that just flew over my place.


----------



## luutzu (27 August 2018)

TLS said:


> A
> 
> 
> Well I'm an eternal optimist that our elected ministers are there to look after ordinary Aussies rather than their own back pocket,  yep I'm bound to be disappointed.
> ...




Some egghead over in the US i just listened to said that under Trump, the rich gets tax cuts and subsidies. For the rest of America, they get to enjoy racism, xenophobia... and two jobs, each? 

But I'm sure our pollies are different. We're not at all competitive about corporate tax cuts, privatisation and funny definition of taxable income.


----------



## luutzu (27 August 2018)

sptrawler said:


> This article on the ABC website, should give the Government something to think about.
> What people really spend their money, and how hard they are doing it.
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-...-to-biggest-household-expenses-chart/10148524
> ...




You do realise that spending food "on restaurants" aren't necessarily "restaurant", restaurant. Not at some $53 a week it ain't. 

At that rate, eating out or ordering in mean fast food or Maccas family restaurant.

So it's due mainly to being poor and overworked, not due to living it large. 

For comparison purposes... I got a gift card couple years ago for a fancy night out for 4. One dinner goes for $790. No meal at a restaurant costs under $35 per person. I know, I looked before heading to maccas.


----------



## sptrawler (27 August 2018)

luutzu said:


> You do realise that spending food "on restaurants" aren't necessarily "restaurant", restaurant. Not at some $53 a week it ain't.
> 
> At that rate, eating out or ordering in mean fast food or Maccas family restaurant.
> 
> ...



Yeh I know everyone is poor, we all need a big money hit and then we will be happy. As if.


----------



## TLS (27 August 2018)

Well since this is a Scomo thread and everyone on here seems to be an expert in running the country... What should he focus on?

No 1. for me is to get rid of this PM assassination capability. Elected PM's are just that - can't be knifed without an election.

No 2. for me is to address the drought crisis. No easy solution here and to be honest I have no idea what the solution would be. Lots of Pros and Cons on both sides ...

No 3. for me is to cap rising energy, private health insurance, fuel prices etc to CPI.


----------



## SirRumpole (27 August 2018)

TLS said:


> Well since this is a Scomo thread and everyone on here seems to be an expert in running the country... What should he focus on?
> 
> No 3. for me is to cap rising energy, private health insurance, fuel prices etc to CPI.




That would be No 1. for me, but the corporate donors would scream blue murder if a government tried that.


----------



## sptrawler (27 August 2018)

No 1 for me, is to get industry moving and get jobs happening.
No2 convince people to take the jobs, it is o.k creating jobs, but people don't want to leave the Cities. 
       Unfortunately all the mines and towns can't be attached to a bulldozer and dragged to the Cities.
No3 Start and get teaching and nursing out of uni's and back into hospitals and teacher training colleges         where they can work out if it is their bag before 3 years of uni.


----------



## TLS (27 August 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> That would be No 1. for me, but the corporate donors would scream blue murder if a government tried that.



Good point but Scomo has never being one to shy away from a challenge (IMO). But I guess being PM would put some shackles on that now .. unless he can garner a posse with similar traits ...


----------



## TLS (28 August 2018)

sptrawler said:


> No 1 for me, is to get industry moving and get jobs happening.
> No2 convince people to take the jobs, it is o.k creating jobs, but people don't want to leave the Cities.
> Unfortunately all the mines and towns can't be attached to a bulldozer and dragged to the Cities.
> No3 Start and get teaching and nursing out of uni's and back into hospitals and teacher training colleges         where they can work out if it is their bag before 3 years of uni.




No3. Is an interesting topic to me - to me in both occupations you either excel or become the new normal. Either way the skills are transferable to any community  / city / country. However, having said all that I've always been an advocate of gaining "hands on" experience and trust of the "local community".  Post that is to me is a lifestyle decision (Ie. money, location etc)


----------



## luutzu (28 August 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Yeh I know everyone is poor, we all need a big money hit and then we will be happy. As if.




Too much, and too little, of anything is not good for you.


----------



## luutzu (28 August 2018)

TLS said:


> Well since this is a Scomo thread and everyone on here seems to be an expert in running the country... What should he focus on?
> 
> No 1. for me is to get rid of this PM assassination capability. Elected PM's are just that - can't be knifed without an election.
> 
> ...




What are we, Communist China? 

Well, except for that no.2, the comrades seem to be working hard at solving their water/drought/desert issue better than we can. Beside running a few school charities and tax benefits, I don't think much is being done about it here.


----------



## PZ99 (28 August 2018)

TLS said:


> Well since this is a Scomo thread and everyone on here seems to be an expert in running the country... What should he focus on?
> 
> No 1. for me is to get rid of this PM assassination capability. Elected PM's are just that - can't be knifed without an election.
> 
> ...



No 4. Ministers can now have sex with their staff again


----------



## Tisme (29 August 2018)

The LNP are looking at either of two lesbians to run for the vacated seat of Wentworth ...... antidote for the Greens candidate.....what does that say about merit, quotas and cynical representation.


----------



## PZ99 (29 August 2018)




----------



## SirRumpole (29 August 2018)

Yes, go ScoMo, as far away as possible !


----------



## Tisme (29 August 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Yes, go ScoMo, as far away as possible !





You might get you wish after Wentworth by election


----------



## SirRumpole (29 August 2018)

Tisme said:


> You might get you wish after Wentworth by election




You think the Lobs will lose the seat ?


----------



## Tisme (29 August 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> You think the Lobs will lose the seat ?




There will be the protest bleed to the Greens which will preference the Labs.

I'm not sure if the sexual predilections of Kerryn Phelps and Christine Forster are enough for a counter veiling sympathy vote.


----------



## PZ99 (29 August 2018)

Looks like the fallout is on..

https://www.news.com.au/finance/wor...s/news-story/1e08a6f2248133e7913362ce25f2d627

https://www.news.com.au/finance/wor...h/news-story/a22ca10990a493cb803f9fff7cafc4a0

PS > ReachTEL: 50-50 in Wentworth


----------



## Smurf1976 (29 August 2018)

PZ99 said:


> Looks like the fallout is on.



Bullying? Within the Liberal party?

And in other news it's warm today in Darwin and apparently someone saw water in the ocean.


----------



## PZ99 (29 August 2018)

It's a bull-ying market


----------



## wayneL (29 August 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Yes, go ScoMo, as far away as possible !



 As much as I currently sympathise with this view, I wonder how many old school Laborites will think the same after a term of Billy.

We are damned if we do and damned if we don't


----------



## sptrawler (29 August 2018)

wayneL said:


> As much as I currently sympathise with this view, I wonder how many old school Laborites will think the same after a term of Billy.
> 
> We are damned if we do and damned if we don't




Whether it was Turnbull or Morrison leading the LIB's, I think they would lose the next election, in my opinion they should have kept Abbott and lost the last election.
The changes Shorten is suggesting, will have a bigger impact on lower and middle Australia, than on the top end.IMO
The reality of it will sink in after it is enacted, like you said it will be interesting to hear the "white noise" after a term of Bill.


----------



## Darc Knight (30 August 2018)

Alan Jones giving ScoMo a chance.


----------



## SirRumpole (30 August 2018)

wayneL said:


> As much as I currently sympathise with this view, I wonder how many old school Laborites will think the same after a term of Billy.
> 
> We are damned if we do and damned if we don't




So what do you think Billy will do that's so bad ?


----------



## SirRumpole (30 August 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> Alan Jones giving ScoMo a chance.




Damn decent of him.


----------



## moXJO (30 August 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> So what do you think Billy will do that's so bad ?



Considering his union mates were backing maduro. And the fact he is a spineless little gimp who floats whatever direction the polls go. I'm going to say everything.


----------



## wayneL (30 August 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> So what do you think Billy will do that's so bad ?



I think he will be totally beholden to the postmodernists. It will be the UN, anti west, anti white agenda all the way.

He will throw the old school Labor base,  straight under a bus.


----------



## Smurf1976 (30 August 2018)

wayneL said:


> He will throw the old school Labor base,  straight under a bus.



That nobody effectively represents ordinary working people is the biggest failing of Australian politics in my view.


----------



## McLovin (30 August 2018)

Tisme said:


> There will be the protest bleed to the Greens which will preference the Labs.
> 
> I'm not sure if the sexual predilections of Kerryn Phelps and Christine Forster are enough for a counter veiling sympathy vote.




The same sex thing will play well in Bondi and the western parts of Wentworth that are close to the inner city, but will be pretty ho-hum anywhere east of Double Bay. The lack of action on climate change is what will drive the protest vote as well as the ditching on a popular local member.

From what I understand Dave Sharma is a shoe-in for Lib preselection. As Dutton is not PM, I would expect the Libs to hold Wentworth. There will be a swing against them, but it won't be anywhere near as violent as if the Village Idiot had become PM.


----------



## Tisme (30 August 2018)

Smurf1976 said:


> That nobody effectively represents ordinary working people is the biggest failing of Australian politics in my view.




All Yin no Yang


----------



## IFocus (30 August 2018)

wayneL said:


> I think he will be totally beholden to the postmodernists. It will be the UN, anti west, anti white agenda all the way.
> 
> He will throw the old school Labor base,  straight under a bus.




Shorten came from the right wing of the union movement which always sold out the base, remember fighting  for conditions and pay only for his old union to sell out with some shonky back room deal undermining everyone else, always a sniff of corruption in the air.

In other words he will fit right into the space currently enjoyed by the right you wont see a difference from the current mob in lots of areas.

Labor are Liberal lite at best while the power base is beholden to the right of the party.


----------



## Tisme (30 August 2018)

McLovin said:


> The same sex thing will play well in Bondi and the western parts of Wentworth that are close to the inner city, but will be pretty ho-hum anywhere east of Double Bay. The lack of action on climate change is what will drive the protest vote as well as the ditching on a popular local member.
> 
> From what I understand Dave Sharma is a shoe-in for Lib preselection. As Dutton is not PM, I would expect the Libs to hold Wentworth. There will be a swing against them, but it won't be anywhere near as violent as if the Village Idiot had become PM.




I think Labor polling has it neck-and-neck


----------



## IFocus (30 August 2018)

Smurf1976 said:


> That nobody effectively represents ordinary working people is the biggest failing of Australian politics in my view.




Correct Smurf will be interesting should Labor win power if the damage done to traning/employment conditions are at least rectified.


----------



## McLovin (30 August 2018)

Tisme said:


> I think Labor polling has it neck-and-neck




My polling at my local pub is far more accurate than any ReachTel poll.  Last week when it looked like it was going to be Dutton the protest vote was on. Last night most people had reverted to normal programming.


----------



## SirRumpole (30 August 2018)

IFocus said:


> Labor are Liberal lite at best while the power base is beholden to the right of the party.




Didn't Rudd say he was "Howard Lite" , and it won him the election.

Labor is scared of endorsing unions like the CFMEU (even though they take their money), but I see nothing wrong with moving towards the Centre because that's where most of the votes are, radical trade unions are on the wane and Labor knows it.


----------



## PZ99 (30 August 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Didn't Rudd say he was "Howard Lite" , and it won him the election.
> 
> Labor is scared of endorsing unions like the CFMEU (even though they take their money), but I see nothing wrong with moving towards the Centre because that's where most of the votes are, radical trade unions are on the wane and Labor knows it.



That's the thing. Money. CFMEU and the Maritime Union merged around 6 months ago and they pull in around $130million a year. For the ALP it's a nice gravy train but also a leash as well.

They spent a truckload of money in Longman from what I've read.

Watch for yet another leadership change if they decide to "short" Shorten as well


----------



## sptrawler (30 August 2018)

PZ99 said:


> That's the thing. Money. CFMEU and the Maritime Union merged around 6 months ago and they pull in around $130million a year. For the ALP it's a nice gravy train but also a leash as well.
> 
> They spent a truckload of money in Longman from what I've read.
> 
> Watch for yet another leadership change if they decide to "short" Shorten as well



Obviously Shorten will get the gig till the election, if Labor loose (which I don't think they will) it will be all down to Shorten, he will be skidded out quicker than Turnbull was that's for sure.

Getting back to Morrison, apparently there is a bit of an uproar about someone having a go at his religous beliefs, that is shaky ground I would have thought.


----------



## Purple XS2 (30 August 2018)

Not many people have attained the office of Prime Minister, having already made their mark on history.

Then cabinet minister Morrison (Treasurer?) waved his piece of coal around, like Gollum caressing his 'Precious': talk about a message to the future: they'll look back on that performance for centuries.

And the punchline to that joke is: "a couple of years later, this person became Prime Minister". I can hear the future laughing already.

Morrison's only hope now is not to leave his mark on history: he's done that alright, in spades; but to re-shape it.
If Morrison has any hope of leading the coalition to victory, he'll need a policy on climate change.
It wouldn't be a pseudo-Green, pro-Paris accord policy: but any policy.
"Every nation for itself", for example. Why not? At least it's a policy.

But Gollum with his Precious?

That's not even stupidity.


----------



## moXJO (30 August 2018)

PZ99 said:


> That's the thing. Money. CFMEU and the Maritime Union merged around 6 months ago and they pull in around $130million a year. For the ALP it's a nice gravy train but also a leash as well.
> 
> They spent a truckload of money in Longman from what I've read.
> 
> Watch for yet another leadership change if they decide to "short" Shorten as well



The unions won't get rid of him. He owes big time. Rudd wasn't union backed,  but Gillard and Bill are. 

Unions are not shy about demanding what they want from elected leaders either.


----------



## SirRumpole (30 August 2018)

Purple XS2 said:


> If Morrison has any hope of leading the coalition to victory, he'll need a policy on climate change.
> It wouldn't be a pseudo-Green, pro-Paris accord policy: but any policy.
> "Every nation for itself", for example. Why not? At least it's a policy.




Both parties face the dichotomy of the electorate over climate change, people want something done about it, as long as it doesn't result in higher bills.

The party than can successfully present both sides of the argument will win. Total denial of CC is a loser, as is over ambitious targets, the middle view is likely to be the winner.

https://theconversation.com/lowy-in...action-at-its-highest-level-in-a-decade-98625


----------



## sptrawler (30 August 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Both parties face the dichotomy of the electorate over climate change, people want something done about it, as long as it doesn't result in higher bills.
> 
> The party than can successfully present both sides of the argument will win. Total denial of CC is a loser, as is over ambitious targets, the middle view is likely to be the winner.
> 
> https://theconversation.com/lowy-in...action-at-its-highest-level-in-a-decade-98625



Your call on it is spot on Rumpy, the technology is there to start and move over to renewable energy, the problem is it is in its infancy and will take time to happen.
What people have to accept is, it can't happen quickly without chaos, as you say the parties need to present a sensible goal and an orderly way to achieve it.
At the moment, the real issues are drowned out by white noise.
The winner will be someone who can articulate the issues, and have the media on side to present it correctly, in other words the stars have to line up.


----------



## Smurf1976 (30 August 2018)

Employee, small business owner, small investor, welfare recipients.

The majority of Australian adults would fit into one of those broad categories and my contention is that neither of the two major parties is governing for any of them.

Small business owners and investors might find the Liberals more palatable than Labor but they're seriously kidding themselves is they think the Liberals are actually on their side. Just as employees and welfare recipients may see Labor as better but again, they're fooling themselves if they think the party is really governing for them. 

So who _are_ they governing for?

Elites tend to do better out of the Coalition.

Anyone with a somewhat extreme view will likely perceive one party as far better than the other.

Those in specially selected industries will of course receive favourable treatment from one or both parties.  

That seems to be about it really.


----------



## sptrawler (30 August 2018)

What seems to be missing Smurph is a National agenda, a plan, a course of action that gives the people a vision of where they want the Country to go.
They see property prices in Sydney and Melbourne, going through the roof, yet in mining Towns in W.A people are going bankrupt over the drop in house values.
They see adverts on T.V to sponsor the homeless, yet they say the welfare bill is becoming unaffordable.
They see on T.V that there is another skills shortage, I know for a fact that you can't get someone to move to the Goldfields to work on the road. Yet you have no problem finding people in the CBD, with a piece of cardboard begging.
Someone needs to start and be dinkum, and stop the BS, start and tell the media to print it as it is, not as they wish to portray it.
Jeez it sounds like we need a Trump.


----------



## Smurf1976 (30 August 2018)

sptrawler said:


> What people have to accept is, it can't happen quickly without chaos, as you say the parties need to present a sensible goal and an orderly way to achieve it.
> At the moment, the real issues are drowned out by white noise.



Your comment reminds me of a very old (1930's) HEC (now Hydro Tas) print advertisement that was run internationally at the time.

So far as the whole energy issue is concerned, all Australian states need to get back to being able to make the claims as per this old advertisement noting that it's not just energy but other infrastructure as well. 

As background, the advertisement was run during the Great Depression when the Hydro was looking for private investors to establish manufacturing industries in Tasmania. Any industry would do, so long as it put people into work (and with the implicit assumption that big factories would need a lot of power). 

The need to be internationally competitive is something we seem to have forgotten these days in Australia. Failing to do so isn't going to help us in the long term that's for sure.


----------



## PZ99 (30 August 2018)

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...un-of-australian-leaders-20180829-p500g7.html


----------



## sptrawler (30 August 2018)

PZ99 said:


> View attachment 89083
> 
> 
> https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...un-of-australian-leaders-20180829-p500g7.html




I read that PZ99 and the thing it really brought home, was how little these people who write these articles, know about the enormity of the problem. Also how little the posters understand of the enormity of the problem.
If the Government said, o.k we will shut down all coal fired power stations in Australia by 2030, everyone including the media would be rejoicing in the street.
If then they said, the cost of electricity will go up four fold and will be unreliable and unemployment will go to 20% because no business will be viable, they would all stand around in a circle going "say what, you must be $hitting me".
Jeez I would love to see that announcement, a Government say it as it is. lol


----------



## sptrawler (30 August 2018)

Instead you post up nonsensical cartoons, in the disguise of intelligent comment, the situation is lampooned enough by fools in the media. Without bringing it into our conversation. Just my opinion.


----------



## Smurf1976 (30 August 2018)

sptrawler said:


> I read that PZ99 and the thing it really brought home, was how little these people who write these articles, know about the enormity of the problem.



Having been around it all my adult life I've met very few people who aren't directly involved who are able to comprehend it all.

My conclusion is that humans simply aren't good at _anything_ involving numbers too big to visualise.

Tell someone there's 276 cubic metres of water going through every second and they look sort of puzzled. Point out that's 276,000 litres per second, 16.56 million litres per minute, 996,600,000 litres per hour, every hour, and at that point 90%+ are along the lines of "well if you say so...." meaning they don't really believe it to be true because it just sounds so far beyond anything they can relate to.

All the numbers involved in this stuff are massive compared to anything that 99% of people ever deal with and it is certainly my experience that even highly intelligent and educated people don't immediately grasp it without some serious thought to understand that yes it does all add up and the answers are indeed massive numbers. They understand it only after they've worked through it and can see where these huge numbers come from.

What government needs to do is not baffle people with science or big numbers or misinformation but to have a plan, with properly qualified and experienced people behind it, and explain to the public in layman's terms why it's necessary, the sequence in which things need to happen and with a projected time and cost. Then just get on with it. Put the technical details on a website and hold some information sessions for the few who really want to know the nuts and bolts of it all.

My concern at this point is that the issue is so politicised that nothing will be done under this government and quite possibly the next government, be it either Liberal or Labor, will also avoid the issue. Then we really will be up the creek with no paddle.


----------



## SirRumpole (31 August 2018)

Smurf1976 said:


> What government needs to do is not baffle people with science or big numbers or misinformation but to have a plan, with properly qualified and experienced people behind it, and explain to the public in layman's terms why it's necessary, the sequence in which things need to happen and with a projected time and cost. Then just get on with it. Put the technical details on a website and hold some information sessions for the few who really want to know the nuts and bolts of it all.




I was under the impression that the above is why we had the Finkel report. 

It could be operating now if the retards in the LNP gave it their support instead of throwing lumps of coal around in Parliament.


----------



## PZ99 (31 August 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Instead you post up nonsensical cartoons, in the disguise of intelligent comment, the situation is lampooned enough by fools in the media. Without bringing it into our conversation. Just my opinion.



It's a pity your self appointed superiority isn't matched by an ability to do it politely, sptrawler.
I didn't write the article, someone else did. The cartoon was relevant to the topic. I don't need your permission to post it.
Your provocation(s) are unnecessary. Don't do it again.


----------



## Tisme (31 August 2018)

Smurf1976 said:


> Your comment reminds me of a very old (1930's) HEC (now Hydro Tas) print advertisement that was run internationally at the time.
> 
> So far as the whole energy issue is concerned, all Australian states need to get back to being able to make the claims as per this old advertisement noting that it's not just energy but other infrastructure as well.
> 
> ...




Build it and they will come


----------



## SirRumpole (31 August 2018)

PZ99 said:


> It's a pity your self appointed superiority isn't matched by an ability to do it politely, sptrawler.
> I didn't write the article, someone else did. The cartoon was relevant to the topic. I don't need your permission to post it.
> Your provocation(s) are unnecessary. Don't do it again.




More cartoons !

They often sum up a subject much better than words do.

Besides they are usually funnier.


----------



## PZ99 (31 August 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> More cartoons !
> 
> They often sum up a subject much better than words do.
> 
> Besides they are usually funnier.



That was the idea 

Both sides of politics want to reduce emissions and have done since the Howard years.
But it's been very costly how the pendulum swung from giving money to a power station for emission reduction versus taking money from a power station to raise funding for renewables.

The Gillard carbon tax was a doozy - it was a broken promise so to appease the public it came with a tax compensation for the end user. Then under Abbott the carbon tax was rolled back - but again to appease the public the tax compensation stayed in place. So we are being compensated for a tax that doesn't even exist. Yet, power prices have become unaffordable.

In my case, the compensation didn't only lower my power costs, it offset them altogether.

Strictly speaking, my power is free.


----------



## sptrawler (31 August 2018)

PZ99 said:


> It's a pity your self appointed superiority isn't matched by an ability to do it politely, sptrawler.
> I didn't write the article, someone else did. The cartoon was relevant to the topic. I don't need your permission to post it.
> Your provocation(s) are unnecessary. Don't do it again.




There is no superiority on my part, actually far from it, I try and post only on what I have some understanding of and I thought my comment was very polite considering.
I don't see how lampooning someone who has only just sat down in the job, can be considered intelligent input, I would class it as derogatory innuendo.
You certainly don't need my permission to post whatever you like, but if I feel it is against what I think is fair, I will say so.
As for not doing it again, this isn't a school room and you aren't the teacher, if I wish to do it again I will. This is a forum where people exchange beliefs, ideas and thoughts, if mine don't align with yours, you always have the option of blocking my posts, feel free to do so.


----------



## PZ99 (31 August 2018)

sptrawler said:


> There is no superiority on my part, actually far from it, I try and post only on what I have some understanding of and I thought my comment was very polite considering.
> I don't see how lampooning someone who has only just sat down in the job, can be considered intelligent input, I would class it as derogatory innuendo.
> You certainly don't need my permission to post whatever you like, but if I feel it is against what I think is fair, I will say so.
> As for not doing it again, this isn't a school room and you aren't the teacher, if I wish to do it again I will. This is a forum where people exchange beliefs, ideas and thoughts, if mine don't align with yours, you always have the option of blocking my posts, feel free to do so.



I don't care whether our ideas are aligned or not. If you think it's fair/polite to be condescending to another poster for having a contrary opinion then chances are you will come out looking second best. Got something against cartoons? Free speech?
I didn't lampoon anyone - I even said in another thread I was prepared to give ScoMo a go. Lampooning had zip to do with the article which highlighted a challenge facing the next two Govts in regards to emissions. As for blocking posts - consider that offer reciprocated.


----------



## SirRumpole (31 August 2018)

The cartoon didn't lampoon Morrison imo, it was just a reminder that he is just the latest to ride over the bones of a political corpse.


----------



## SirRumpole (2 September 2018)

It seems Bishop will stay on.

Keeping her powder dry and not wanting to associate with conspirators.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-01/julie-bishop-runs-again-for-curtin/10190824


----------



## PZ99 (2 September 2018)

The most bizarre thing I've seen yet is Mal Turnbulls' son raising money for Labor in Wentworth.

Now I know why the ALP were immune from criticism in that final speech


----------



## wayneL (2 September 2018)

PZ99 said:


> The most bizarre thing I've seen yet is Mal Turnbulls' son raising money for Labor in Wentworth.
> 
> Now I know why the ALP were immune from criticism in that final speech



Like Ive said so many times,  The Manchurian Candidate.


----------



## sptrawler (2 September 2018)

PZ99 said:


> The most bizarre thing I've seen yet is Mal Turnbulls' son raising money for Labor in Wentworth.
> 
> Now I know why the ALP were immune from criticism in that final speech



The Apple doesn't fall far from the tree, why do you think Labor and the SMH are upset about Turnbull getting rolled, he was Labor's best assett.IMO
Funny how Abbott was trashed for being selfish, then Mal leaves the Party with a by election, makes me wonder where his loyalties lied.


----------



## Smurf1976 (3 September 2018)

Smurf1976 said:


> Remind us they stopped asylum seekers whilst running record rates of immigration.



To clarify, my point is the contradiction not about immigration itself.

Going to a lot of effort amid much fanfare to stop people entering the country whilst at the same time having record levels of people entering the country.

Sounds like pure politics to me.


----------



## CanOz (3 September 2018)

Illegal immigrants vs legal immigration. Pretty sure the difference is more than political.


----------



## SirRumpole (3 September 2018)

It's about time we got back to "organic" growth rather than the highly artificial population increase seen over the last 20 years.

Half the workforce can't get anything better than a part time, temporary or casual job. We should be giving the younger generations a chance to get decent employment that will allow them to raise families, rather than going for the "families in a bottle" approach of immigration.


----------



## Smurf1976 (3 September 2018)

CanOz said:


> Illegal immigrants vs legal immigration. Pretty sure the difference is more than political.



That would be true if there was no way to buy your way in such that pretty much anyone with $, however obtained, can manage to become a "legal" immigrant if they jump through the required relatively straightforward hoops.

If we're going to keep the boats out, and I'm not opposed to that as a concept by the way, then we should also be keeping out those who simply buy their way in and who wouldn't meet the criteria without those $.

Plus any sensible immigration policy has as a fundamental requirement a target population level. Now can anyone tell me what the government's policy, or the Opposition's for that matter, is? What's their target population level? Without first answering that it's impossible to sensibly address the issue of immigration beyond perhaps accepting those on humanitarian grounds. 

I'm not outright opposed to immigration. I'm opposed to what looks awfully like a case of one rule for the poor and a different rule for the rich.


----------



## luutzu (3 September 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> It's about time we got back to "organic" growth rather than the highly artificial population increase seen over the last 20 years.
> 
> Half the workforce can't get anything better than a part time, temporary or casual job. We should be giving the younger generations a chance to get decent employment that will allow them to raise families, rather than going for the "families in a bottle" approach of immigration.




With high property prices/debt level, insecure jobs... the average couple would be lucky to get any. Forget about organic population growth. 

China's about to officially remove their one-child policy, replacing it with either two for everyone [not just the very rich] or more. The world's going to be turning Chinese over next two generations.


----------



## luutzu (3 September 2018)

Smurf1976 said:


> That would be true if there was no way to buy your way in such that pretty much anyone with $, however obtained, can manage to become a "legal" immigrant if they jump through the required relatively straightforward hoops.
> 
> If we're going to keep the boats out, and I'm not opposed to that as a concept by the way, then we should also be keeping out those who simply buy their way in and who wouldn't meet the criteria without those $.
> 
> ...




As the Orange Emperor often said, the rich are the best sort of people to have 

How can a country be rich if there aren't rich people? Right? So as long as they have money, by any mean, they're the sort of people you want to enter the country.

Hard work, dreams, idealism, pulling yourself up by those bootstraps... heck, most of them don't even wear slippers set alone boots.


----------



## Tisme (3 September 2018)

luutzu said:


> With high property prices/debt level, insecure jobs... the average couple would be lucky to get any. Forget about organic population growth.
> 
> China's about to officially remove their one-child policy, replacing it with either two for everyone [not just the very rich] or more. The world's going to be turning Chinese over next two generations.





China removed the one child policy in 2016. The population birth rate was declining while the aged population was increasing, There's ~240 million old fossils in China ATM and that will increase to about 400 million in less than 20 years. With ~16-17 million babies born annually you can do the maths.

The drop is because the previous one child policy is now biting, with less women in the fertility range.


----------



## luutzu (3 September 2018)

Tisme said:


> China removed the one child policy in 2016. The population birth rate was declining while the aged population was increasing, There's ~240 million old fossils in China ATM and that will increase to about 400 million in less than 20 years. With ~16-17 million babies born annually you can do the maths.
> 
> The drop is because the previous one child policy is now biting, with less women in the fertility range.




I thought it was just last year?

Yea. Can't rebuild the empire with one spoilt little shiet per family.


----------



## SirRumpole (3 September 2018)

More $hite on the pile.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-...ens-to-name-liberals-who-bullied-her/10196432


----------



## CanOz (3 September 2018)

Buy thier way in? Can you give some examples of this? Do you mean investment? Sorry for my ignorance here but I'm lost on this one...


----------



## CanOz (3 September 2018)

You decide....

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-...l-australia-you-decide-our-population/9470156


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## SirRumpole (3 September 2018)

CanOz said:


> Buy thier way in? Can you give some examples of this? Do you mean investment? Sorry for my ignorance here but I'm lost on this one...




I don't know who you are quoting here but there is such a thing as a "business" visa.

https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/trav/visa-1/visa-listing#Working and Skilled Visas

I've heard anecdotally that some "business" visa holders come here, set up a shop-front that never trades, and use the business as a money laundering exercise.


----------



## orr (3 September 2018)

PZ99 said:


> The most bizarre thing I've seen yet is Mal Turnbulls' son raising money for Labor in Wentworth.
> 
> Now I know why the ALP were immune from criticism in that final speech




The less than subtle difference between the average voter in Wentworth and  what the average voter is in say, whatever seat it is that incompasses Logan(just as a radom), is that one of those two better understands leverage. And whomever takes Wentworth will only be secure for a few of months at most.
Morrisons term? short and  his thinking even shorter term.
Current 2019 Fed election Market- Libs... $3.20      Lab... $1.30


----------



## Tisme (4 September 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> I don't know who you are quoting here but there is such a thing as a "business" visa.
> 
> https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/trav/visa-1/visa-listing#Working and Skilled Visas
> 
> I've heard anecdotally that some "business" visa holders come here, set up a shop-front that never trades, and use the business as a money laundering exercise.




Wasn't/isn't there a sponsored business migration program where wealthy asians could buy elite residency if they invested $xyz k ?


----------



## SirRumpole (4 September 2018)

Tisme said:


> Wasn't/isn't there a sponsored business migration program where wealthy asians could buy elite residency if they invested $xyz k ?




Might be this one, although I can't see a dollar figure mentioned on a quick scan.

https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/about/corporate/information/fact-sheets/27business


----------



## sptrawler (4 September 2018)

At last some positive feedback on Scott Morrison's position. On Q&A they said Labor were worried about Bishop getting in, that tells you the Libs picked the right person.IMO

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-...op-overlooked-for-liberal-leadership/10197156


----------



## Knobby22 (4 September 2018)

sptrawler said:


> At last some positive feedback on Scott Morrison's position. On Q&A they said Labor were worried about Bishop getting in, that tells you the Libs picked the right person.IMO
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-...op-overlooked-for-liberal-leadership/10197156




Labor is happy, the Libs are happy, all's right in the world.


----------



## wayneL (4 September 2018)

Knobby22 said:


> Labor is happy, the Libs are happy, all's right in the world.



Nothing will be right until Labor,  Liberal and The Greens are dead a buried.


----------



## SirRumpole (4 September 2018)

wayneL said:


> Nothing will be right until Labor,  Liberal and The Greens are dead a buried.




Leaving just Pauline ?


----------



## Knobby22 (4 September 2018)

wayneL said:


> Nothing will be right until Labor,  Liberal and The Greens are dead a buried.




That sounds a bit morose or are you planning a coup? 

*HARRY SECOMBE*

*If I Ruled The World Lyrics*

If I ruled the world
Every day would be the first day of Spring
Every heart would have a new song to sing
And we'd sing of the joy every morning would bring

If I ruled the world
Every man would be as free as a bird
Every voice would be a voice to be heard
Take my word, we would treasure each day that occurred

My world would be a beautiful place
Where we would weave such wonderful dreams
My world would wear a smile on its face
Like the man in the moon has when the moon beams

If I ruled the world
Every man would say the world was his friend
There'd be happiness that no man could end
No my friend, not if I ruled the world

Every head would be held up high
There'd be sunshine in everyone's sky
If the day ever dawned when I ruled the world

(my dad used to sing this).


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## sptrawler (4 September 2018)

They have certainly put paid to lyrics like that, social media and the news media, put paid to joy and dreams. They give you a dose of reality, and if it brings pleasure and a feeling of contentment, they appologise, that is the last thing they want to encourage. IMO


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## PZ99 (4 September 2018)

Federal politics has been dead and buried for a decade. Meanwhile the country continues to function positively with a clear example as to why we don't even need a Fed Govt at all.

Additional comfort for ScoMo when the sharks are winning home and away games of late


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## Smurf1976 (5 September 2018)

Tisme said:


> Wasn't/isn't there a sponsored business migration program where wealthy asians could buy elite residency if they invested $xyz k ?



I'm not an expert on immigration laws but my understanding is that investing $1.5 million is one way to get in.

Now $1.5 million isn't exactly going to start any substantial sort of new business now is it? Sole trader yes, a small shop or professional office yes, but not anything that makes any real difference even locally unless it's based in a very small town. 

There are also other categories for higher amounts but they're still only a few $ million, the sort of money that isn't particularly uncommon these days.

To me it looks like a pretty easy to jump hurdle for those with money.

I'm not opposed to the concept of immigration, just to the concept that throwing a few $ around is one way to get in. Fair enough if you're investing serious $ into a steel works or launching rockets or something like that but not if we're talking about mundane investments of no real significance.


----------



## Smurf1976 (5 September 2018)

orr said:


> Morrisons term? short and  his thinking even shorter term.



I question whether the government is really just a caretaker in practice from now until the election?

Officially not, they're still the government, but does anyone seriously expect _anything_ to be done in their remaining time beyond simply administering business as usual?


----------



## PZ99 (5 September 2018)

Smurf1976 said:


> I question whether the government is really just a caretaker in practice from now until the election?
> 
> Officially not, they're still the government, but does anyone seriously expect _anything_ to be done in their remaining time beyond simply administering business as usual?



Not really. But 9 months* is a long time in politics. Mark Latham/ALP had a fair lead over the Howard Govt before it all went to dust. The amount of negativity from the ALP will cost them if they don't start presenting an alternative Govt.

*The interesting thing for me is most commentators are expecting the election to be around the same time as the budget statement. So expect some serious pork barrelling and Hash Candy


----------



## PZ99 (5 September 2018)

*economic growth jumps to 3.4 per cent in the June quarter*

*http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-05/gdp-june-quarter-2018/10202834*

There you go... no need for Government.


----------



## sptrawler (5 September 2018)

PZ99 said:


> *economic growth jumps to 3.4 per cent in the June quarter*
> 
> *http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-05/gdp-june-quarter-2018/10202834*
> 
> There you go... no need for Government.



I think people have realised, consumer prices can't stay this low forever, dollar going down interest rates going up, the cycle is turning. IMO
For example I just bought a 5KW Fujitsu A/C for $999, that is cheap.
It will be interesting to see how things are going in eight months, like you said earlier, it is a long time in politics.
Wages are on the rise in mining, and it is difficult to find workers, at the moment.
By the time the election comes around, Billy's slash and burn policies, may well not be as palatable as people are finding them currently.
One thing for sure, Billy won't have as good a time debating Morrison, as he did with Turnbull.
It could well be, the most interesting times in politics, for a long time.


----------



## sptrawler (5 September 2018)

What a hoot, now the SMH wants to bag the Libs for dropping lifting the age pension age, lol why because it's really unpopular. Jeez give us a break.

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/...o-for-australia-s-future-20180905-p501ua.html

Silly Billy doesn't have to worry about going into meltdown, obviously the Age will do it for him.IMO

Maybe if it so important a step, that the Libs shouldn't drop it, they should be pushing Labor to adopt it, after all they increased the pension age from 65 to 67.

That would give the Media a bit more credibility. lol as if. 

The hippy hippy shakes are starting to happen, Billy can't sit in his cone of silence and say FFFk all, Malcolm's gone the soft roll is over. lol


----------



## sptrawler (5 September 2018)

OMG the ABC are jumping on the band wagon, you young lefties have no hope. LOL give me the ventilator 
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-...-savings-sacrificed/10204696?section=analysis

Come on Bill, give us a dose of reality, what a hoot. 
Lift the retirement age, and don't think you can go early by buying an investment property, you grunt it you asked for it.
I think I will vote Labor, we can share the pain together, luckily i'm doing it from a later stage in life. 
At last, the real news comes out.


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## PZ99 (6 September 2018)

I hope both those authors loose their jobs around 5 years before they reach the pension age.

They'll be pushing for it to be 65 real quick


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## Tisme (6 September 2018)

Should be lowered to 63 and those who want to work 'til they drop given a tax break.

Biggest rort of all time was govt employees retiring at 55 on the back of overpaid, over superannuated salaries and ridiculous severance redundancy packages.


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## sptrawler (6 September 2018)

PZ99 said:


> I hope both those authors loose their jobs around 5 years before they reach the pension age.
> 
> They'll be pushing for it to be 65 real quick



Like you said in another thread, some workers will physically struggle to get to 65 let alone 67. 
I've had two knees and hips replaced, I couldn't go on, a mate of mine is a brickie and watching him work breaks your heart poor sod.


----------



## PZ99 (6 September 2018)

I have a bit of arthritis which bugs me at work. Ironically, and to add insult to injury, I'm no longer allowed to buy the codeine painkillers unless I burden the health system with a visit to the GP. 

Wait until the automation kicks in - then we're really up the creek. I better start refreshing my day trading skills...


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## SirRumpole (6 September 2018)

If people retire at 70 there will be a lot of young people trying to raise families who can't get a job because the old fogeys are hogging them.


----------



## moXJO (6 September 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> If people retire at 70 there will be a lot of young people trying to raise families who can't get a job because the old fogeys are hogging them.



People have a right to work. Age shouldn't be a factor.


----------



## SirRumpole (6 September 2018)

moXJO said:


> People have a right to work. Age shouldn't be a factor.




We are not talking about "right to work", but the age at which people can get a government pension.


----------



## moXJO (6 September 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> We are not talking about "right to work", but the age at which people can get a government pension.



Well you mentioned "hogging jobs".
Not everyone wants to retire.


----------



## SirRumpole (6 September 2018)

moXJO said:


> .
> Not everyone wants to retire.




True, but I think most do at some stage. 

More thought should be given to part time work for seniors, mentoring the young ones coming through.


----------



## moXJO (6 September 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> True, but I think most do at some stage.
> 
> More thought should be given to part time work for seniors, mentoring the young ones coming through.



I think government having clear plans on Australia's direction and coordinating education would yield a better result.
Both sides of government can't seem to think past 3 years though.

Doubling the population is going to be interesting as well.


----------



## PZ99 (6 September 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> True, but I think most do at some stage.
> 
> More thought should be given to part time work for seniors, mentoring the young ones coming through.



LOL - Thanks for giving me the opportunity to credit the Abbott Govt /

One of the good things about the 2014 Budget was a wage subsidy for hiring seniors over 50.
Employers received $3000 after six months of employment, $3000 after a year of employment, a further $2000 after 18 months and another $2000 after two years.

I was on board with it but dunno if it's still going of how effective it was.. https://www.news.com.au/finance/eco...u/news-story/a267d040ca65d4d8b357c91dafb252d7


----------



## Smurf1976 (6 September 2018)

The whole retirement issue needs seriously looking at in my view.

Anyone over 50 without a profession or trade is probably in their last job right now. That's the harsh reality of it, officially age discrimination is illegal but in practice it's extremely widespread. If that job goes, for whatever reason, then they end up joining the long term unemployed and jumping through Centrelink's pointless hoops until they eventually get the pension a decade later.

Sure there will be exceptions but I know quite a few who have found themselves in that situation. 50+ and out of work with the options being start their own business, stay on the dole or perhaps get some sort of job with government. The private sector won't go near them once they work out their age.

For those with a trade, well it depends not just on their physical ability to keep doing it but convincing potential employers they're still up to it. If they're out of work then realistically they'll probably end up as a one man contracting business doing small jobs in the suburbs unless they can find a potential employer who actually wants experience or who can't get anyone younger.

So the whole thing needs to be looked at really.


----------



## CanOz (6 September 2018)

Maybe its just Tasmania Smurf but i think you're out of touch with reality, we can't get enough people to work our casual positions, we fill it with labour hire and they can't get enough people, 50+ or otherwise, to fill them.


----------



## SirRumpole (6 September 2018)

CanOz said:


> Maybe its just Tasmania Smurf but i think you're out of touch with reality, we can't get enough people to work our casual positions, we fill it with labour hire and they can't get enough people, 50+ or otherwise, to fill them.




Casual positions suit some, but not people trying to raise a family.

This is where our economic system is going to collapse. Insecure work means people are too worried about where their next paycheck is coming from that they are frightened to spend money on anything but essentials. Then businesses moan about downturns in consumer spending, then recessions start.


----------



## CanOz (6 September 2018)

Sir, he was talking about 50+....pretty sure that would be the minority in terms of raising a family...myself excluded


----------



## CanOz (6 September 2018)

All you bears haven't changed since I joined ASF. Like a broken clock you lot will Eventually be correct ...


----------



## Smurf1976 (6 September 2018)

I’m only commenting based on what I’ve seen and there have been quite a few.

Clerical workers, blue collar non-trade, even an executive. They worked for either government or a large business for many years, were made redundant through no fault of their own and after that never actually managed to get another job comparable to the one they lost.

The smart ones end up as some sort of sole trader, consultant or working part time / casual but getting another  full time ongoing job seems problematic.

Obviously there will be exceptions but the statistics do show the pattern I’m referring to.

I have thus long had the view that individuals who are employees should work and invest on the basis that the timing of their exit from full time paid employment may not be of their choosing.

I don’t see that as bullish or bearish, just a reflection of how it seems to be.


----------



## luutzu (6 September 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Like you said in another thread, some workers will physically struggle to get to 65 let alone 67.
> I've had two knees and hips replaced, I couldn't go on, a mate of mine is a brickie and watching him work breaks your heart poor sod.




There should be some sort of tiered retirement age. At the moment the "professional" sitting in a nice office retires at the same age as the people labouring day in day out.

There is such a thing as wear and tear on thebody; the physically intensive work, rushed lunch, poor diet... 

But then again it's by designed. As Costello couldn't help himself and brag about how his Treasury dept. ran the numbers and see that they cannot pay pension and other benefits for every retiree.

Can't because their projections had it that a big number of them (labourer) would croaked before they get to retire; or at the least don't live much past the retirement age to enjoy the pension (that they've worked their entire life contributing to).

So the prick raised it. Get to the sweet spot where guys like himself get to enjoy it more.

Doesn't that just pizzed you off?


----------



## HelloU (6 September 2018)

The tax that I pay this year is not somehow 'saved' to be given back to me as a pension in 30 years time. In 30 years time some other person will go to work all day to pay the tax that will be given to me as a pension so I can sit at home ...... I never forget that is how the system works.


----------



## luutzu (6 September 2018)

HelloU said:


> The tax that I pay this year is not somehow 'saved' to be given back to me as a pension in 30 years time. In 30 years time some other person will go to work all day to pay the tax that will be given to me as a pension so I can sit at home ...... I never forget that is how the system works.




I didn't say save as in save the cash/tax. 

An average young person work and pay taxes from which they do not currently receive much back in return from the gov't. Those taxes of theirs goes to education, health, defence, pensions, corporate subsidies. i.e. mainly goes to other people who need it most, they recon. 

The understanding is that when they grow old, or injured, or lost their mind... their contribution to society back when they were young... that should be returned in kind. 

But if you're a planner like Costello, and they pretty much all are... in you looking at the statistics and all that, then decide the likelihood of this group of workers in this group of earnings bracket, industry... they're most likely going to die soon after retirement at, not at 60 anymore, but around 65 to 67, say... 

Then you set about raising the retirement age to where one group will benefit above the other. Aren't you purposely screwing the other (poor, labouring) group you know will most likely not live long to enjoy whatever it is the gov't is supposed to repay them for a lifetime of contribution to the national welfare?


----------



## HelloU (6 September 2018)

luutzu said:


> I didn't say save as in save the cash/tax.
> 
> An average young person work and pay taxes from which they do not currently receive much back in return from the gov't. Those taxes of theirs goes to education, health, defence, pensions, corporate subsidies. i.e. mainly goes to other people who need it most, they recon.
> 
> ...



I understand your point and agree (without a helpful response other than 'equality for all')...... but see the complications of choosing 58, 59, 60, 61, or 62 etc, and trying to justify that choice over the others when one has to be made.

On the broader point of spending tax money, when anybody talks about spending more tax money I always visualize the situation as follows:
Line up 10 taxpayers that you know and point at the one that you want to pay more tax from their pocket to pay for your idea. If you cannot ask that person for money from their pocket then do not ask for the tax money.  Because that is where the money has to come from.


----------



## luutzu (6 September 2018)

HelloU said:


> I understand your point and agree (without a helpful response other than 'equality for all')...... but see the complications of choosing 58, 59, 60, 61, or 62 etc, and trying to justify that choice over the others when one has to be made.
> 
> On the broader point of spending tax money, when anybody talks about spending more tax money I always visualize the situation as follows:
> Line up 10 taxpayers that you know and point at the one that you want to pay more tax from their pocket to pay for your idea. If you cannot ask that person for money from their pocket then do not ask for the tax money.  Because that is where the money has to come from.




If there's a will, there's a way. 

One could, in five minutes, look at the same statistics as Costello and his successors obviously do... and decide that since the average age for a blue collar worker to kick the bucket is, say, 65; for the white collar around 70 to 75. 

So a fair-minded person, a 'leader' and public servant of the people and what not, would either have two tiered; or would reduce it to benefit both. They shouldn't shift it to benefit those who arguably have benefited a heck of a lot more in life.

-------
We have no problem with spending taxpayers money to subsidise corporations through gov't subsidies, pet projects; no problem with 'saving the renters' with the negative gearing, generous capital gains that most high income earners tend to enjoy the most... somehow it become "entitlements" when a few bucks are trickled on the poor. 

You can argue that those who do well financially in life, they do not do it on their own. The state keep their assets safe for one. The training, the infrastructure; the workers the state funded etc. etc. 

So if a person does well, it's only fair that they ought to pay, if not a "fair" rate, then a higher one. 

That and what does a person do with crap loads of money anyway? 

I'm not allergic to money or being rich, but after, say $100M... what difference does more zeroes behind that figure do anyway? Not get a mention in some glossy magazine? 

Anyway...


----------



## sptrawler (6 September 2018)

luutzu said:


> But if you're a planner like Costello, and they pretty much all are... in you looking at the statistics and all that, then decide the likelihood of this group of workers in this group of earnings bracket, industry... they're most likely going to die soon after retirement at, not at 60 anymore, but around 65 to 67, say...



Costello didn't raise the retirement age to 67 and he hasn't been around for over ten years, three terms of Government.
I wasn't a big fan of his, but i can't see that all the blame can be laid at his feet, I'm sure plenty of others have had the opportunity to make changes.

I was reading today, the top 20% of tax payers, pay 80% of the tax bill, while the middle income earners pay the rest.
Those on less than $60,000 pay net, no tax apparently, so i just wonder how far you want to push the envelope. lol


----------



## luutzu (6 September 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Costello didn't raise the retirement age to 67 andhe hasn't been around for over ten years, three terms of Government.
> I wasn't a big fan of his, but i can't see that all the blame can be laid at his feet, I'm sure plenty of others have had the opportunity to make changes.




I don't know which Treasurer signed off on it. But I saw an interview where Costello was bragging about it.


----------



## PZ99 (7 September 2018)

It was Wayne Swan who raised the retirement age to 67 but at the same time increased the pension by around $30 a week.

Peter Costello raised the super preservation age to 60 for those born after June 1964 but at the same time removed tax for lump sum draw downs after you reach 60.


----------



## orr (9 September 2018)

The Morning after; preliminary results of a 29% fall in Liberal support. The  State bi-election in the seat of Wagga should not in anyway be seen as a broader indication of the temper of the wider national voting public. (prayers in the pews anyone??? talking in touges?)
I was lucky enough to drive by a flag bearing white BMW on Burraneer Bay Rd last weekend, Number plate C-1 ... well; I've no argument with that.
Wentworth is on a 17% margin .... Mmmmmm'. Might make someone out to be a complete C-....


----------



## Tisme (9 September 2018)

orr said:


> The Morning after; preliminary results of a 29% fall in Liberal support. The  State bi-election in the seat of Wagga should not in anyway be seen as a broader indication of the temper of the wider national voting public. (prayers in the pews anyone??? talking in touges?)
> I was lucky enough to drive by a flag bearing white BMW on Burraneer Bay Rd last weekend, Number plate C-1 ... well; I've no argument with that.
> Wentworth is on a 17% margin .... Mmmmmm'. Might make someone out to be a complete C-....




I tend to think it was voter backlash over corruption activities of Mr Maguire.


----------



## Tisme (9 September 2018)

https://www.betootaadvocate.com/bre...y-replaces-rich-white-dude-from-sydney-as-pm/


----------



## luutzu (9 September 2018)

Tisme said:


> https://www.betootaadvocate.com/bre...y-replaces-rich-white-dude-from-sydney-as-pm/




Great site.


----------



## sptrawler (10 September 2018)

Interesting that labor still lead the coalition in the polls, but just shows how on the nose Shorten is, when Morrison already leads him by a good margin as preferred PM.
I certainly hope Labor keep him as leader, it is the only hope the Libs have.


----------



## Tisme (10 September 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Interesting that labor still lead the coalition in the polls, but just shows how on the nose Shorten is, when Morrison already leads him by a good margin as preferred PM.
> I certainly hope Labor keep him as leader, it is the only hope the Libs have.




You have to swing 10% back in to Bill's preferred status and deduct from Scott to account for the Greens aversion to indicate any agreeableness with Labor party leaders.


----------



## sptrawler (10 September 2018)

Tisme said:


> You have to swing 10% back in to Bill's preferred status and deduct from Scott to account for the Greens aversion to indicate any agreeableness with Labor party leaders.



Yes I guess Bill will have to come up with all sorts of reasons. Lol

Maybe it is just Bill is on the nose?


----------



## SirRumpole (10 September 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Yes I guess Bill will have to come up with all sorts of reasons. Lol
> 
> Maybe it is just Bill is on the nose?





Shorten is rambler who uses about twice the number of words needed to get a point across and also goes in for un-needed dramatics that aren't necessary, but he has won 60+ Newspolls on voting intentions, so the preferred PM rating is pretty well irrelevant.


----------



## Tisme (10 September 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Yes I guess Bill will have to come up with all sorts of reasons. Lol
> 
> Maybe it is just Bill is on the nose?




There's that, but what's not to like about a man who knifed two of his captains?


----------



## sptrawler (10 September 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Shorten is rambler who uses about twice the number of words needed to get a point across and also goes in for un-needed dramatics that aren't necessary, but he has won 60+ Newspolls on voting intentions, so the preferred PM rating is pretty well irrelevant.



It will be interesting to watch what happens, if The Libs start pegging back Labor in the polls, that would really cause angst.
Like I said at least Morrison has a chance, Turnbull was a dud from the start.IMO


----------



## SirRumpole (10 September 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Turnbull was a dud from the start.IMO




But he won every preferred PM poll against Shorten. So how relevant is that measure ?


----------



## Tisme (10 September 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> But he won every preferred PM poll against Shorten. So how relevant is that measure ?




Scott is a Pentecostal tambourine banger isn't he? That should be interesting when it comes to supporting legislation dealing with sinful acts.


----------



## SirRumpole (10 September 2018)

Tisme said:


> Scott is a Pentecostal tambourine banger isn't he? That should be interesting when it comes to supporting legislation dealing with sinful acts.




He's certainly speaking in another tongue when I've heard him.


----------



## sptrawler (10 September 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> But he won every preferred PM poll against Shorten. So how relevant is that measure ?




Well Morrison has won his first preferred PM outing, against Shorten, by as much as Turnbull did.
So I suppose it is more a measure of Shortens unpopularity, than a measure of the his opponents popularity. 
Therefore as I mentioned, the trend of the opposing parties popularity will be more relevant, Shorten's popularity is going nowhere.
It will hinge on how well Morrison, puts the Libs case, over to the public. IMO


----------



## Humid (10 September 2018)

With both parties knifing their leaders in the back does it matter which clown you pick?
When were the adults showing up?


----------



## sptrawler (10 September 2018)

Humid said:


> With both parties knifing their leaders in the back does it matter which clown you pick?
> When were the adults showing up?




If they were adults, they would be doing a real job, not playing at the "running a Country pantomime".IMO
That applies to all sides of politics.


----------



## Darc Knight (10 September 2018)

Ask yourselves ( or answer me) who becomes a Politician? Other than the Jackie Lambies who probably couldn't earn as much elsewhere, who would put themselves up for the scrutiny and harassment that M.P.s face?


----------



## sptrawler (10 September 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Interesting that labor still lead the coalition in the polls, but just shows how on the nose Shorten is, when Morrison already leads him by a good margin as preferred PM.
> I certainly hope Labor keep him as leader, it is the only hope the Libs have.




I guess this possible liberal candidate, thinks it is a big waste of time, hope he gets to regret his decision. If some one is genuine, you don't pull out, you get in there and make a statement.
This is the whole problem with politics, they have increased the pay to attract "better" people, when in really all you need to attract is "genuine" people, who have their heart in the game not their pockets. IMO

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-...drew-bragg-pulls-out-of-liberal-race/10222210

Obviously there is a foregone conclusion becoming apparent.


----------



## SirRumpole (10 September 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> Ask yourselves ( or answer me) who becomes a Politician? Other than the Jackie Lambies who probably couldn't earn as much elsewhere, who would put themselves up for the scrutiny and harassment that M.P.s face?




If you stay a backbencher most of your career, you avoid most of the scrutiny, get a reasonable wage and a nice pension scheme later on.

Most pollies are there for genuine reasons,but quite a few just want a sinecure.


----------



## sptrawler (10 September 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> If you stay a backbencher most of your career, you avoid most of the scrutiny, get a reasonable wage and a nice pension scheme later on.




Nice to see you class $200k as a reasonable wage, wish silly billy could see that self funded retirees on $60k, aren't really killing the pig.
Yet him and puppy Bowen are really targeting them. 
Actually I've been a bit disappointed with Bowen, he seemed to have some potential as shadow minister for immigration, but Shorten seems to have brought him to heal. 
Sad really, but I guess that is how it all works.


----------



## Tisme (11 September 2018)

Wentworth candidate has been stripped of pre selection because he's male ...... stacking the parliament with popular breed drovers dogs is the new norm.


----------



## SirRumpole (11 September 2018)

Tisme said:


> Wentworth candidate has been stripped of pre selection because he's male ...... stacking the parliament with popular breed drovers dogs is the new norm.




Actually he voluntarily stepped aside as I understand it.


----------



## Tisme (11 September 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Actually he voluntarily stepped aside as I understand it.




Not what I have heard ... a dirt file circulating.

If the LNP go down the affirmative discrimination route, it will have acceded to beige mob mentality and socialist doctrine.... it will become more indistinguishable from those political force majeures who want us to be servile to parliament rather than parliament being answerable to the us (especially those of us who actually have some individual nous).


----------



## SirRumpole (11 September 2018)

Tisme said:


> Not what I have heard ... a dirt file circulating.
> 
> If the LNP go down the affirmative discrimination route, it will have acceded to beige mob mentality and socialist doctrine.... it will become more indistinguishable from those political force majeures who want us to be servile to parliament rather than parliament being answerable to the us (especially those of us who actually have some individual nous).




Yeah I agree, but it's tough on capable women who get the nod, they are always going to be attacked as being part of a quota devoid of merit.

There are some women in the Libs who should not have got the nod in the first place. Kelly O'Dwyer, Sophie Mirabelle and Michelia Cash are some that come to mind.

And that Downer person has just got preselection, another waste of space.


----------



## Tisme (11 September 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Yeah I agree, but it's tough on capable women who get the nod, they are always going to be attacked as being part of a quota devoid of merit.
> 
> There are some women in the Libs who should not have got the nod in the first place. Kelly O'Dwyer, Sophie Mirabelle and Michelia Cash are some that come to mind.
> 
> And that Downer person has just got preselection, another waste of space.




I hear what you are saying, but in truth how many women have you and I attacked as quota dolls over the last whatever years we have agreed to disagree?  Sure I think Wong and Pliberabcxyz are poison, sure those biaches you mentioned are lame, but we attack on the basis they prove by their actions they are not fit, same rulz we apply to the men.


----------



## SirRumpole (11 September 2018)

Tisme said:


> I hear what you are saying, but in truth how many women have you and I attacked as quota dolls over the last whatever years we have agreed to disagree?  Sure I think Wong and Pliberabcxyz are poison, sure those biaches you mentioned are lame, but we attack on the basis they prove by their actions they are not fit, same rulz we apply to the men.




I think we are both saying that there should not be quotas for women ?

That's certainly what I think, otherwise it's going to be followed by quotas for LGBxyz's, Muslims and who knows what else.


----------



## Darc Knight (11 September 2018)

Morrison stated he's a "merit Man" not a "quota Man" on Alan Jones this morning. 
I like the idea of Shorten as Opposition Leader. It hopefully keeps our Politics in the Centre.


----------



## PZ99 (11 September 2018)

I'll take merit over quota anytime. Quotas amount to discrimination.


----------



## IFocus (11 September 2018)

Hmmm are you *blokes *all saying that the Liberal male MP's are all super stars and only got in on merit?


----------



## Tisme (11 September 2018)

IFocus said:


> Hmmm are you *blokes *all saying that the Liberal male MP's are all super stars and only got in on merit?




Well now they are getting on quota too, aren't they? You know fill the spots not allocated to women, religious zealots, etc. That'll make sure we get the best team.


----------



## PZ99 (11 September 2018)

IFocus said:


> Hmmm are you *blokes *all saying that the Liberal male MP's are all super stars and only got in on merit?



That's an anomaly that will be politically corrected by the democratic process sometime over the remainder of this Govt's gestation period of.... around 9 months. 

At the moment it's merely a fetal attraction... _( thankyouverymuch.... )_


----------



## sptrawler (12 September 2018)

The Media are trying to whip up a frenzy against Morrison IMO:

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...ng-of-dutton-controversy-20180912-p5039g.html

Apparently they say Dutton has missused Parliamentary privlidge, WOW, I can remember when a certain person with red hair was cheered for that.

Also the Guardian has jumped on the band wagon, apparently Morrison said the drought will get rid of the bottom 10% of farms, that probably shouldn't be there.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...live?page=with:block-5b988fa6e4b0fa31b62141e1

I don't know about over East, but here in the West a lot of marginal farms have been reclaimed, and salt degradation in the mid West is atrocious.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/salinity/

Untill they can get water reliably to these areas, maybe they shouldn't be farmed, the water from the North plan is probably the answer.

Meanwhile the media start the Raptor chase, after another P.M, cheap journalism IMO. I hope someone takes them to task, us plebs, just have to watch in awe.


----------



## SirRumpole (12 September 2018)

Bullied to back down on bullying claims ? 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-12/liberal-party-women-back-down-on-bullying-claims/10238214


----------



## sptrawler (12 September 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Bullied to back down on bullying claims ?
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-12/liberal-party-women-back-down-on-bullying-claims/10238214




I don't know about you, but I have found bullies have been around as far back as I can remember, is this going to change because people don't like it?
I doubt it, in a competitive World forcing opinion is part of it, if everyone tried to form a committee to resolve issues nothing will get done. Facing off and arguing your position, is part of finding the neutral ground, finding the bottom line the common denominator.
Maybe a few people in politics, should look for another career, no one has ever said it for the thin skinned, or faint hearted.


----------



## Smurf1976 (12 September 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Facing off and arguing your position, is part of finding the neutral ground, finding the bottom line the common denominator.



A determined bully has no interest in arguing their position.

They’ll be going ahead regardless of whether or not anyone else is convinced so any form of discussion is pointless in practice.


----------



## sptrawler (12 September 2018)

Smurf1976 said:


> A determined bully has no interest in arguing their position.
> 
> They’ll be going ahead regardless of whether or not anyone else is convinced so any form of discussion is pointless in practice.




A determined bully, is soon toppled, if they are pursuing an invalid argument.
That is one thing I have found the 'new generation' better at, if they don't like what they are hearing, they soon let you know.
The 'old days' of shutting up and getting on with it, are well and truly gone.


----------



## PZ99 (13 September 2018)

Parliament house should have a chamber set aside for a mud pit, where you can really let it rip


----------



## SirRumpole (13 September 2018)

PZ99 said:


> Parliament house should have a chamber set aside for a mud pit, where you can really let it rip




Isn't that called Question Time ?


----------



## PZ99 (13 September 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Isn't that called Question Time ?



No that's where they ring the bells. LOL


----------



## Logique (13 September 2018)

Malcolm Turnbull is reported to be phoning Lib MPs from New York, undermining Peter Dutton.

As for Julia Banks, a Turnbull supporter, her marginal Melbourne metro seat of Chisholm is gone anyway, on current national 2pp polling. The going get's a bit rough, and Julia Banks bravely retreats. What a great advertisement for more women in parliament.

The Libs are better off without these two.







> https://www.smh.com.au/national/dar...s-for-victoria-s-liberal-20180827-p5003a.html
> ...The polling shows the Liberal seats of Corangamite, Casey, La Trobe, Dunkley and *Chisholm* all *poised to fall* at the next election, which looks likely to be held in May 2019.
> How the seats could swing
> Gone! ..Chisholm - *Julia Banks* (Turnbull) 3.4 ..


----------



## SirRumpole (13 September 2018)

Logique said:


> The Libs are better off without these two.




And a lot more after the election.


----------



## Knobby22 (13 September 2018)

Logique said:


> Malcolm Turnbull is reported to be phoning Lib MPs from New York, undermining Peter Dutton.
> 
> As for Julia Banks, a Turnbull supporter, her marginal Melbourne metro seat of Chisholm is gone anyway, on current national 2pp polling. The going get's a bit rough, and Julia Banks bravely retreats. What a great advertisement for more women in parliament.
> 
> The Libs are better off without these two.




As a Melburnian and someone who voted Liberal the last two elections but no more, I fully understand it.
Victoria has been ignored, we haven't been getting our share of infrastructure money despite growing the fastest of any area of Australia, the party is treating Victorian members mostly badly and now the bullying episode. parts of the party wants to go to the right and join up with the Pauline crowd who unlike in Queensland deeply unpopular here. The average Melbournian thought Turnbull was OK and Tony is a a embittered lying fool.

We used to be the heartland of the Liberal Party but they seem to turning away from Menzian ideals into USA Republicans and Hansonites. Our Victorian president can't get enough crazy right wingers to fill the seats here so he is recruiting the Mormans. Honestly I am not surprised.

The Libs could have won this election but they got rid of their best asset and some let Murdoch control their agenda. Turnbull is hated by Murdoch as he is the first Prime Minister in living memory not to go to America and sit at Murdoch's feet. I wonder if ScoMo will? Abbott, Rudd and Gillard did.

Don't forget Julia Banks won that seat, it was Labors the previous election despite a much stronger showing. Definitely lost now. Probably will be replaced with another muppet.


----------



## sptrawler (13 September 2018)

Logique said:


> Malcolm Turnbull is reported to be phoning Lib MPs from New York, undermining Peter Dutton.
> 
> As for Julia Banks, a Turnbull supporter, her marginal Melbourne metro seat of Chisholm is gone anyway, on current national 2pp polling. The going get's a bit rough, and Julia Banks bravely retreats. What a great advertisement for more women in parliament.
> 
> The Libs are better off without these two.




Yes it's quite funny that Abbott was given heaps in the press, for undermining Turnbull, it seems Turnbull is ten times worse.
At least Abbott stayed in politics, whereas Turnbull spat the dummy, causes a by election and starts snipping while on holidays in the U.S.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle, grimy ar$e.
As you say Logique, it just shows how little Turnbull cared about the Libs, good riddance I say.


----------



## sptrawler (13 September 2018)

Knobby22 said:


> As a Melburnian and someone who voted Liberal the last two elections but no more, I fully understand it.
> Victoria has been ignored, we haven't been getting our share of infrastructure money despite growing the fastest of any area of Australia,



Welcome to what is like to be West Australian. 
We haven't been getting our share for years, and until recently, it fell on deaf ears.


----------



## SirRumpole (13 September 2018)

sptrawler said:


> At least Abbott stayed in politics,




Yes, and that's the problem.


----------



## wayneL (14 September 2018)

Knobby, Im sure you meant the Liberals got rid of Labors best asset?


----------



## PZ99 (14 September 2018)

Interesting how ScoMo doesn't believe in quotas but insists a woman should be preselected for Wentworth. In any event - the winner was Turnbulls' preferred candidate 

https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...n/news-story/396923b7d427144d806c5d4adf9b1ad0


----------



## Knobby22 (14 September 2018)

wayneL said:


> Knobby, Im sure you meant the Liberals got rid of Labors best asset?



Abbott is Labor's best asset and he is still there.
Turnbull could have been like John Keys in NZ but it was not to be.


----------



## Logique (14 September 2018)

"Abbott is Labor's best asset".  Labor doesn't believe that, although they'd never admit it.  He had Gillard's measure, and Rudd's, and well they knew it.







> Conservative leader Tony Abbott has celebrated a landslide victory in Australia's [2013] general election, after reducing the *Labor Party to its worst result in a century* with promises of tough action against immigrants and scrapping a tax on carbon emissions... His Liberal-National coalition is set to win a huge parliamentary majority..
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wo...alian-prime-minister-after-landslide-win.html
> By Jonathan Pearlman, Sydney11:00AM BST 07 Sep 2013


----------



## PZ99 (14 September 2018)

LOL > I think Labor are more than happy that it was Abbott winning that election and not Malcolm Bishop Morisson. It takes a special kind of incompetence to convert a landslide victory into a self induced defeat in half a term and only a few have managed it


----------



## Knobby22 (14 September 2018)

Logique said:


> "Abbott is Labor's best asset".  Labor doesn't believe that, although they'd never admit it.  He had Gillard's measure, and Rudd's, and well they knew it.



That was then, this is now. He is now their best asset. He is a walking embarrassment. The barnacle they can't remove. Hopefully for Libs sake he will lose his seat. I think it is likely despite the large swing, remember Howard?


----------



## wayneL (14 September 2018)

John Key and Malcolm Turnbull should never be said in the same sentence, in the same paragraph even.

There is absolutely no comparison between the two. John Key was a legend. Turnbull a bloody muppet at best, and  I still Believe a Manchurian candidate.


----------



## Knobby22 (14 September 2018)

Maybe Turnbull is not of the quality of Keys and has muppet qualities but let's face it, if Keys had of been in the same position, he would have been knifed also for being too moderate. What he achieved in NZ was amazing but he didn't have to deal with the Abbott Muppet within his own party.


----------



## wayneL (14 September 2018)

Keys was  a good conservative, Turnbull a social democrat. 

No comparison


----------



## Darc Knight (16 September 2018)

A lot of people writing ScoMo or SloMo off already?
I think he maybe "deadman walking" but I'm willing to give him a chance.


----------



## sptrawler (16 September 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> A lot of people writing ScoMo or SloMo off already?
> I think he maybe "deadman walking" but I'm willing to give him a chance.




I think the Libs are dead in the water, the papers are full of it, they say it enough times people take it for granted.
Whether that means Morrison goes with the ship, is another thing, I think he is still their best option.
Shorten is still the only hope the Libs have and even his unpopularity, won't help much. IMO


----------



## Darc Knight (16 September 2018)

Off and racing. SloMo no more. A Royal Commission into Aged Care.


----------



## Knobby22 (16 September 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> Off and racing. SloMo no more. A Royal Commission into Aged Care.



Good distraction. 
I remember when the Libs thought Royal Commissions were considered expensive and a last resort.
The good thing is that it means they don't have to do anything about the issue till after the election.


----------



## sptrawler (16 September 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> Off and racing. SloMo no more. A Royal Commission into Aged Care.



With a bit of luck, it will clear the decks for euthanasia, I'm ready to go. It is depressing watching the Australia, slide down like the Titanic, in the name of leading the World. lol


----------



## sptrawler (16 September 2018)

Knobby22 said:


> Good distraction.
> I remember when the Libs thought Royal Commissions were considered expensive and a last resort.
> The good thing is that it means they don't have to do anything about the issue till after the election.




Yes Knobby, if Labor call it yippe yi yay, if Libs call it then it is just a good distraction.

You should send in a letter to the editor of the SMH, they would love that. Priceless.

Yesterday you were saying they were doing fluck all, today they announce a Royal Commission, and you say they are taking the pizz. lol


----------



## SirRumpole (16 September 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Yes Knobby, if Labor call it yippe yi yay, if Libs call it then it is just a good distraction.




The Libs have had 5+ years to do something about the aged care sector. Calling a RC in their death throws is an admission of failure on their part.

It's good that they called it, but it's just a guilty man pleading guilty.


----------



## sptrawler (16 September 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> The Libs have had 5+ years to do something about the aged care sector. Calling a RC in their death throws is an admission of failure on their part.
> 
> It's good that they called it, but it's just a guilty man pleading guilty.




Let's not go there, or I will have to trawl back to what labor started bagging as soon as they lost office, yet had two terms to change the exact issues. We had a lot of tooing and throughing about it when Labor lost office.
I'm all for putting Labor in, a lot of nasty stuff needs to happen and Labor can do it.
But to put the boots into Scotty when he is curled up on the ground, trying to get up, is a bit uncalled for. lol


----------



## SirRumpole (16 September 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Let's not go there, or I will have to trawl back to what labor started bagging as soon as they lost office, yet had two terms to change the exact issues. We had a lot of tooing and throughing about it when Labor lost office.
> I'm all for putting Labor in, a lot of nasty stuff needs to happen and Labor can do it.
> But to put the boots into Scotty when he is curled up on the ground, trying to get up, is a bit uncalled for. lol




Whenever you say "but Labor did..." just remember that they have spent two terms out of office as penance, and now it's time for the LNP do theirs.


----------



## sptrawler (16 September 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Whenever you say "but Labor did..." just remember that they have spent two terms out of office as penance, and now it's time for the LNP do theirs.



I think the next election will be a massive landslide, everyone is sick to the teeth of fringe dwellers holding up Australia, I really hope there is a MASSIVE majority in both houses.
The last two terms have been held to ransom, and it is hopeless. 
The worst thing Abbott did, was to renege on his commitment to call another election, if he didn't have a majority in both houses.
It was his downfall and he deserved it, the people wanted a decisive Government, he didn't provide it and he is still paying for it.
Now we need labor to get in and stiff everyone, get some silly warm feel good really expensive stupid $hit happening, then the Libs get another go. lol


----------



## SirRumpole (16 September 2018)

sptrawler said:


> I think the next election will be a massive landslide, everyone is sick to the teeth of fringe dwellers holding up Australia, I really hope there is a MASSIVE majority in both houses.
> The last two terms have been held to ransom, and it is hopeless.
> The worst thing Abbott did, was to renege on his commitment to call another election, if he didn't have a majority in both houses.
> It was his downfall and he deserved it, the people wanted a decisive Government, he didn't provide it and he is still paying for it.
> Now we need labor to get in and stiff everyone, get some silly warm feel good really expensive stupid $hit happening, then the Libs get another go. lol




I agree, the freak show in the Senate is paralysing.

Unfortunately we are stuck with Pauline for 3 more years.


----------



## sptrawler (16 September 2018)

I just want to see good policy, I don't care where it comes from, it can't work when you have a minority holding everything up.
The economy and the World doesn't stop, just because Australia panders to fringe dwellers in the Senate.
It really is Abbott's fault, he should have called another election, but didn't. So he has no one else to blame but himself.
What Labor are suggesting will fix the economy, but it will screw over the working man IMO, but hey that is what happens, they love it.
Then when they wake up, it is a done deal and the Libs get back in, but nothing gets undone.
Jeez I wouldn't mind a dollar, for every time I've seen this happen, in my life.
But the worker has had it too good, it wasn't long ago we were talking about the girl at the front of Bunnings, discussing the latest investment property they had bought.
That shouldn't be the norm.


----------



## sptrawler (16 September 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> Off and racing. SloMo no more. A Royal Commission into Aged Care.



Well like I said, the only plus the Libs have is silly Billy, this is from the SMH so it would be leaning to Billy.
I mean, why wouldn't the electorate be warming to Billy by now, they have seen a lot of him, heard a lot from him, but they still hate him.
He has been the leader for what five years, and is more on the nose than Abbott, that isn't good. 
I'm really suprised, the media hasn't ripped him another bum, why isn't he popular he says he has all the answers.lol
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...-behind-malcolm-turnbull-20180916-p5044t.html

It will be interesting to see the polls, early next year, it should give an indication by Feb.


----------



## Knobby22 (17 September 2018)

d







sptrawler said:


> Yes Knobby, if Labor call it yippe yi yay, if Libs call it then it is just a good distraction.
> 
> Yesterday you were saying they were doing fluck all, today they announce a Royal Commission, and you say they are taking the pizz. lol




Yes, you are right, I am being cynical and lacking in enthusiasm for it all.
The 4Corners documentary is tonight. It won't be good as we all know the sector is stuffed. This is what has caused this crisis for the Government hence the call for a Royal Commission.

Maybe a Royal Commission is the answer but they seem to be continuous at present. Governments appear to no longer try to come up with answers; they go to a Royal commission and get someone else to tell them. Maybe it is getting too complex to govern or maybe lawyers and ex government advisors of which most of our ministers are by career are not trained to work out problems. I don't know.

One thing I do know, the misery from this  Commission is going to be up there with the worst of some of the recent ones. Some of the stories I have seen are pretty awful, something like a 1/3 of residents slowly starve on the food given. Maybe this will cause some change for good. Maybe this is the best action.

(cynical me again) Gives them something to do in Parliament for the rest of the year since they don't seem to have any leglislative agenda. when does the banking commission finish? That could get them busy.


----------



## sptrawler (17 September 2018)

Knobby22 said:


> d
> 
> Yes, you are right, I am being cynical and lacking in enthusiasm for it all.
> The 4Corners documentary is tonight. It won't be good as we all know the sector is stuffed. This is what has caused this crisis for the Government hence the call for a Royal Commission.



My wife worked as an RN in nursing homes, her whole career, some are good, some are very average and some are downright disgraceful.
I think there has been tighter regulation of them over recent years, thirty years ago it was terrible, from stories my wife told me. The management or owners, wanted everything done for minimum cost, with minimum staff.


----------



## Tisme (17 September 2018)

sptrawler said:


> My wife worked as an RN in nursing homes, her whole career, some are good, some are very average and some are downright disgraceful.
> I think there has been tighter regulation of them over recent years, thirty years ago it was terrible, from stories my wife told me. The management or owners, wanted everything done for minimum cost, with minimum staff.




I was involved in some nursing homes in Perth back in the day and I was rather put off then with the men in urine soaked wheel chairs, many of them old diggers from WW1. Then later (80's) I went to a major establishment in north Brisbane and it was worse; one of the old fellas spoke to me about wanting rule 303 enforced to put him out of his misery. Things must have changed for the better surely.

Keeping old people around after their bodily functions have given up the ghost is cruel IMO and some thought to a dignified departure to a spiritual place would be humane.


----------



## SirRumpole (17 September 2018)

Tisme said:


> Keeping old people around after their bodily functions have given up the ghost is cruel IMO and some thought to a dignified departure to a spiritual place would be humane.




IMO the families can't bear to lose their parents or grandparent and so carry on the treatments longer than they should, putting off the evil day.


----------



## SirRumpole (17 September 2018)

Another Liberal woman quits.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-...is-to-quit-politics-at-next-election/10254602


----------



## PZ99 (18 September 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Another Liberal woman quits.
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-...is-to-quit-politics-at-next-election/10254602



It seems to me the Liberal Party has the same stench of bullying as the CMMFEU.

Disappoint them and you'll never look at a strawberry the same way again.


----------



## Tisme (18 September 2018)

PZ99 said:


> It seems to me the Liberal Party has the same stench of bullying as the CMMFEU.
> 
> Disappoint them and you'll never look at a strawberry the same way again.




The CMFEU has roots back to 1863, the Liberal Party 1944. Both are unions, but the Libs are still adolescents by comparison and going through their difficult years before maturation.


----------



## SirRumpole (18 September 2018)

Tisme said:


> The CMFEU has roots back to 1863, the Liberal Party 1944. Both are unions, but the Libs are still adolescents by comparison and going through their difficult years before maturation.




Meanwhile, the CMFEU are well established gangsters.


----------



## Tisme (18 September 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Meanwhile, the CMFEU are well established gangsters.




And by all accounts very wealthy, unlike the Libs


----------



## PZ99 (19 September 2018)

The Govt has stated that if you post a fake food contamination hoax on Facebook you could do porridge for up to 10 years. That's pretty full-on. Wonder where this will lead when it comes to other "hoaxes" posted on the internet ?

https://www.news.com.au/national/re...s/news-story/f321be833599909ee25ccbbdfa5d9d12


----------



## Tisme (20 September 2018)

Keep and eye on the Nationals....Barnaby possibly doing a Lazarus, but opponents wheeling out the dirt e.g. WA business women sexually aggrieved resurfacing and infighting occurring


----------



## sptrawler (24 September 2018)

sptrawler said:


> It will be interesting to see the polls, early next year, it should give an indication by Feb.




It looks as though Morrison is picking up in the preferred P.M stakes, and they pegged back a couple of points in the preferred party, looks like Billy's going to have to find his tongue or they could loose the unlosable election. 
The problem is most people, are just looking for an excuse, not to vote for Billy. IMO
It won't be hard for Morrison to peg them back, with an improving economy, just have to keep people focused on Bill.
At least it won't be just a boring formality, as it would have been, under Turnbull. 
There may be some life left in this battle yet.


----------



## sptrawler (25 September 2018)

Another thing I'm noticing, certain sections of the press are starting to scramble, for articles.
It will be interesting over the next month or so. IMO


----------



## sptrawler (25 September 2018)

It is good to see some of labor's policies, are starting to reflect on the positive side of the ledger for the coalition.
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...ding-drive-strong-budget-20180925-p505uy.html

From the article:
_The single biggest saving was the lower than expected numbers of participants entering the National Disability Insurance Scheme. Increasing the aged pension to 67 also saved $900 million in payments, while there was $4 billion in lower than expected spending on people with disabilities_.


Julia made it much harder to get disability payments, that has saved a fortune apparently.
Now from the article, our economy is growing really quick and labor want to to plunder and pillage, I think the tide is turning.

From the article:
_In the past month, ratings agency S&P has removed Australia's negative watch rating and the national accounts showed the strongest economic growth since the global financial crisis - the last time Australia recorded a surplus.( T*hat's pre Rudd/Gillard/Rudd/Swann, for Rumpy and Tisme info) My input.lol*

"Since coming to office we've kept spending real growth down to 1.9 per cent which is the lowest of any government in 50 years," Mr Frydenberg said. "But we cannot be complacent.

Labor, which has proposed up to $200 billion in budget saving measures, accused the government of abandoning its core principle.

"Simply saying the ‘economy’ or ‘growth’ will pay for new spending or tax cut plans is no plan for a sustainable budget repair strategy," said shadow treasurer Chris Bowen_.

Sounds like Labor have decided on a feeding frenzy, on the taxpayer, can't wait for the next installment.


----------



## PZ99 (26 September 2018)

LOL... The Libs are so scared of loosing Wentworth they're taking down competitors' posters 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-...-candidates-campaign-posters-removed/10306126


----------



## SirRumpole (26 September 2018)

PZ99 said:


> LOL... The Libs are so scared of loosing Wentworth they're taking down competitors' posters
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-...-candidates-campaign-posters-removed/10306126




If I was Kerryn I'd change my preferences.


----------



## Tisme (26 September 2018)

Libs at it again with people's freedoms. Dutton wants to compel telcos to implant spyware on their clients phones.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/com...pushes-new-security-laws-20180924-p505oc.html

"
A push to compel Australia's telecommunications companies to install spyware on customers' phones under broad new security plans could be "severely damaging" to the country's cybersecurity, the industry has warned......"

Telcos are part of an expanded group, which includes device makers like Apple, search engines like Google, and social media apps like Facebook, which could potentially be compelled to help federal authorities gain access to encrypted communications, according to submissions made on a draft bill currently before parliament for consideration.


----------



## SirRumpole (26 September 2018)

Tisme said:


> Libs at it again with people's freedoms. Dutton wants to compel telcos to implant spyware on their clients phones.
> 
> https://www.smh.com.au/business/com...pushes-new-security-laws-20180924-p505oc.html
> 
> ...




All the politicians phones should be bugged for a start. Then we might know whose money they are taking under the table and what the donors want in return. 

The pollies are the best paid crims in the country.


----------



## sptrawler (26 September 2018)

I find it amusing, the way people are so accepting of phones and their obvious ability to compromise your personal information, it wasn't long ago that everyone was up in arms about an Australia card.

The 'smart' phone is going to tell more about you, than any plastic Australia card ever could, but people are embracing them with such fever the sky is the limit for data mining.


----------



## Tisme (5 October 2018)

Warning course language


----------



## SirRumpole (5 October 2018)

Tisme said:


> Warning course language






Might be interesting to see if Labor support this.


----------



## SirRumpole (6 October 2018)

Is this trouble for the Government (and the Opposition) ?

Is the Wentworth electorate further Left than we thought ?

Most Wentworth voters want refugee children on Nauru bought to Australia.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...ters-want-nauru-children-brought-to-australia


----------



## sptrawler (8 October 2018)

Well it looks as though Morrison was the best choice, Bowen owns up.

https://thewest.com.au/opinion/mark...threat-to-labors-election-hopes-ng-b88981567z


----------



## Tisme (15 October 2018)

I recall Phelps was one of those in your face people who liked the sound of her own voice, someone I have associated with willing to sacrifice social/family cohesion to advance her own fame and stymie personal guilt. 

I remember her telly show that was biased towards video of women's pinky bits ... rather awkward when in the company of your mum and grandma.

Trolling Professor Google I found this unsigned article that indicates her capacities:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/phelpss-son-speaks-out-20021013-gdfpxc.html



> In the tranquil interior of Kerryn Phelps's and Jackie Stricker's Double Bay home, Carl Fronzek is talking about how the gay marriage of his "two mums" has torn apart his extended family.
> 
> Mr Fronzek, 19, son of AMA federal president Phelps's first marriage, is both angry and philosophical about the family split.
> 
> ...


----------



## Tisme (15 October 2018)

When the inevitable happens and the govt starts talking up it's party pedigree on economic management:


----------



## CanOz (15 October 2018)

Look like it's ticked up!


----------



## Tisme (15 October 2018)

CanOz said:


> Look like it's ticked up!




Crashed two years before the 1980 world recession.... correction we had to have?

also:

https://www.commsec.com.au/content/...ts-24018-labour-productivity-at-5year-low.pdf


----------



## Tisme (15 October 2018)

pwned


----------



## Smurf1976 (15 October 2018)

Tisme said:


> Crashed two years before the 1980 world recession...



The data looks highly suspicious to me in terms of accuracy.

A greater than 40% drop virtually overnight from which it took 35 years to recover.

I’m not all convinced it’s accurate. Just doesn’t seem right.


----------



## Tisme (15 October 2018)

Smurf1976 said:


> The data looks highly suspicious to me in terms of accuracy.
> 
> A greater than 40% drop virtually overnight from which it took 35 years to recover.
> 
> I’m not all convinced it’s accurate. Just doesn’t seem right.











*"104.21 Index Points in the fourth quarter of 1976 and a record low of 58.20 Index Points in the third quarter of 1978."*


----------



## CanOz (16 October 2018)

Just when you thought scomo was doing all right, saying all the right things, then he goes and says he's gonna move the embassy to Jerusalem....what a f***ING idiot!!!

He's try to be Trump now??


----------



## SirRumpole (16 October 2018)

CanOz said:


> He's try to be Trump now??




He's trying to win Wentworth which has a large Jewish population.

Just shows what lengths he will go to to stay in power, a typical politician.


----------



## PZ99 (16 October 2018)

Last thing I heard was a contest between Phelps and the LNP with Labor directing preferences?


----------



## Tisme (17 October 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> He's trying to win Wentworth which has a large Jewish population.
> 
> Just shows what lengths he will go to to stay in power, a typical politician.




How long is long is a length when it comes to this kind of campaigning by an unsavoury someone unknown:


----------



## SirRumpole (17 October 2018)

Tisme said:


> How long is long is a length when it comes to this kind of campaigning by an unsavoury someone unknown:





So Michael is helping circulate fake news now ?

An area that a reputable journalist should stay well away from.


----------



## PZ99 (17 October 2018)

This will blow up tomorrow for sure. HIV? Well that's a mediscare mark 2


----------



## Knobby22 (18 October 2018)

Tisme said:


> How long is long is a length when it comes to this kind of campaigning by an unsavoury someone unknown:




It doesn't sound like a fake news headline that someone who actually wanted to get votes for the Libs would write. Why would you say something easily provable as false and why would you mention the Libs?
I suspect it is a deliberate fake to try to gain support for Phelps. I am sure Phelps would never be involved and it's some anarchist from the far left.


----------



## Tisme (18 October 2018)

Knobby22 said:


> It doesn't sound like a fake news headline that someone who actually wanted to get votes for the Libs would write. Why would you say something easily provable as false and why would you mention the Libs?
> I suspect it is a deliberate fake to try to gain support for Phelps. I am sure Phelps would never be involved and it's some anarchist from the far left.




That was my initial thought ... Polonius moment allowing Phelps to reinforce her apparent virtuous agenda.


----------



## explod (18 October 2018)

Knobby22 said:


> It doesn't sound like a fake news headline that someone who actually wanted to get votes for the Libs would write. Why would you say something easily provable as false and why would you mention the Libs?
> I suspect it is a deliberate fake to try to gain support for Phelps. I am sure Phelps would never be involved and it's some anarchist from the far left.




*Be the far right I reckon, setting it up to look like the left as usual.*

*The left are too busy trying to scratch up enough for a feed, a bed and a smoke for relief.*


----------



## Knobby22 (18 October 2018)

explod said:


> *Be the far right I reckon, setting it up to look like the left as usual.*
> 
> *The left are too busy trying to scratch up enough for a feed, a bed and a smoke for relief.*



A possibility, definitely.


----------



## Kerway (18 October 2018)

Definitely the far left setting it up to look like the far right were setting it up for the moderate left.


----------



## IFocus (18 October 2018)

I reckon it's the Nats  , Barnaby going for another shot at leadership needing cover by getting the Libs to lose Wentworth.........but then again Libs seem to be doing that Ok on their own.


----------



## moXJO (18 October 2018)

Pffft was probably TBull throwing a spanner.


----------



## PZ99 (18 October 2018)

I reckon it was whoever tore down all those posters and replaced them with Liberal posters.


----------



## Tisme (18 October 2018)

PZ99 said:


> I reckon it was whoever tore down all those posters and replaced them with Liberal posters.




Don't ISPs have to archive traffic for two years? Surely the govt knows which leftie posted it?


----------



## PZ99 (18 October 2018)

Tisme said:


> Don't ISPs have to archive traffic for two years? Surely the govt knows which leftie posted it?



If they can't find the original source someone will have to invent one. 

That last line on the email is a dead giveaway.


----------



## Tisme (18 October 2018)

PZ99 said:


> If they can't find the original source someone will have to invent one.
> 
> That last line on the email is a dead giveaway.




what "Choose Dave Sharma. Otherwise if you choose local white, they will be molesting your children someday."


----------



## PZ99 (18 October 2018)

Yep, that one. It has a sort of.... anti vac mephitis about it


----------



## Knobby22 (19 October 2018)

You can see what Malcolm Turnbull was up against, what a rabble!

Policy on the run (Jerusalem) possibly ruining the free trade deal with Indonesia that they want a win with this year, fighting with farmers (farm worker visa problem),  tells Pacific Island nations they are no better than beggars, some green shoots on the New Zealand deal re asylum seekers but even that is played badly, agrees with Pauline Hanson on white racism and... as if to say we are a rabble too... the Nats join in with a leadership fight.

What a week and yet this is them trying to be a well run government as they need to win a safe seat to avoid having a minority government! What are they going to do next week if they lose it??? The mind boggles.


----------



## Tisme (19 October 2018)

Knobby22 said:


> You can see what Malcolm Turnbull was up against, what a rabble!
> 
> Policy on the run (Jerusalem) possibly ruining the free trade deal with Indonesia that they want a win with this year, fighting with farmers (farm worker visa problem),  tells Pacific Island nations they are no better than beggars, some green shoots on the New Zealand deal re asylum seekers but even that is played badly, agrees with Pauline Hanson on white racism and... as if to say we are a rabble too... the Nats join in with a leadership fight.
> 
> What a week and yet this is them trying to be a well run government as they need to win a safe seat to avoid having a minority government! What are they going to do next week if they lose it??? The mind boggles.




Scott is like that dad who drops awkward clangers at his daughter's 16th party, dad dances and then tries to engage with the girl friend guests.....time for mum to send him off to cook some snags.


----------



## moXJO (19 October 2018)

Libs lost it when they thought they could go authoritarian. Whittled away enough freedom's and privacy, to lose a chunk of their base. 
They are literally too stupid to make decisions at this stage.

I wasn't a fan of Tbull running things either. A lot of this happened under his watch.

Just because Trump and other populists got up across the world,  doesn't mean thats what Australia needs. We need government that will sort out the current issues we face without ideological slants.

I'm in no way convinced labor will do much either.


----------



## PZ99 (19 October 2018)

Labor will angle it differently from their fortified degrees


----------



## Tisme (19 October 2018)

PZ99 said:


> Labor will angle it differently from their fortified degrees




It seems we have managed to wrap ourselves up so tightly with trade deals, we have to seek approval from other countries before we can make policy.


----------



## SirRumpole (19 October 2018)

Tisme said:


> It seems we have managed to wrap ourselves up so tightly with trade deals, we have to seek approval from other countries before we can make policy.




Yes other countries should keep out of our affairs. I'm sure Indonesia would take offense if we told them what to do with their embassies.

That doesn't mean moving our embassy in Israel is the right thing to do, it seems provocative with no real benefit except to Israel's ego.


----------



## So_Cynical (19 October 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> That doesn't mean moving our embassy in Israel is the right thing to do, it seems provocative with no real benefit except to Israel's ego.




The Jewish vote in Wentworth, disgraceful behaviour of the Libs - absolutely disgraceful, they deserve to get their ass handed to them tomorrow and i expect that will be the outcome, preferences will get the independent home.


----------



## SirRumpole (20 October 2018)

So_Cynical said:


> The Jewish vote in Wentworth, disgraceful behaviour of the Libs - absolutely disgraceful, they deserve to get their ass handed to them tomorrow and i expect that will be the outcome, preferences will get the independent home.




Quite correct, Phelps wins Wentworth.

Labor didn't do too well either.


----------



## Knobby22 (20 October 2018)

Well they lost Wentworth and it was great to hear the Liberal spokesperson on the ABC coverage talk about needing to change the climate change policies.

I want my Liberal Party back. They need to tell Rupert, Bolt and all the USA style Republicans style politicians to f off. They just threw away a great leader. 
The first step should be to get rid of Tony Abbott and demand Newscorp hand back the money that was given to them.  I am still angry.                                                    t


----------



## PZ99 (20 October 2018)

Knobby22 said:


> Well they lost Wentworth and it was great to hear the Liberal spokesperson on the ABC coverage talk about needing to change the climate change policies.
> 
> I want my Liberal Party back. They need to tell Rupert, Bolt and all the USA style Republicans style politicians to f off. They just threw away a great leader.
> The first step should be to get rid of Tony Abbott and demand Newscorp hand back the money that was given to them.  I am still angry.                                                    t



Well said. I'd give that 2 likes if I could.

One for hitting the nail and one for saving me from doing it


----------



## basilio (20 October 2018)

Let's see what the Libs new CC policy will look like.

Or could it be  believed ?  I remember John Howard made a (very) late change  in policy just before he got the royal boot.


----------



## SirRumpole (21 October 2018)

basilio said:


> Let's see what the Libs new CC policy will look like.
> 
> Or could it be  believed ?  I remember John Howard made a (very) late change  in policy just before he got the royal boot.




The coalition's CC policy if it really exists will be a put up job to convince the masses that they really care and is likely to vapourise after the election which ever way it goes.


----------



## So_Cynical (21 October 2018)

Tony should go now, he has to take a bulk of the blame for rolling Malcolm, Dutton and a couple of others too - they have no chance at the next election as a lame duck government for the next 7 months or whatever, Shame as i think ScoMo had potential but he cant stand up to the wreckers on the right.

The Libs are self destructing, the right are to stupid and hard line, the centrists too weak.


----------



## IFocus (21 October 2018)

So_Cynical said:


> Tony should go now, he has to take a bulk of the blame for rolling Malcolm, Dutton and a couple of others too - they have no chance at the next election as a lame duck government for the next 7 months or whatever, Shame as i think ScoMo had potential but he cant stand up to the wreckers on the right.
> 
> The Libs are self destructing, the right are to stupid and hard line, the centrists too weak.




One absolute certainty is that Abbott will not go.

Katharine Murphy sums up the by election nicely

"It is a repudiation. A repudiation of a chaotic period in government characterised by self-obsession and self-harm. A repudiation of the party’s lurch to the right, and the hollowing out of the sensible centre.

A repudiation of amoral plots, schemes, coups, and seat-of-the-pants bull**** – a howl of frustration from voters, from the most well-heeled to the couch surfers, about the endless weasel words from their disconnected, half-deranged politicians – a group with scant respect for facts and evidence, intermittent competence and no plan in evidence to address the problems the country faces.

20 October 2018 is a clarion repudiation of Punch and Judy politics, of a sideshow signifying nothing, conducted at taxpayer expense. The good people of Wentworth have stood up as a job lot, grabbed politics-as-usual by the lapels, leaned into its smug face, and screamed get stuffed you absolute morons"



https://www.theguardian.com/austral...t-just-a-loss-for-the-liberals-its-a-disaster


----------



## SirRumpole (21 October 2018)

IFocus said:


> "It is a repudiation. A repudiation of a chaotic period in government characterised by self-obsession and self-harm. A repudiation of the party’s lurch to the right, and the hollowing out of the sensible centre.




And a repudiation of fwits in the media like Alan Jones and Ray Hadley who think they can run the country through a microphone.

They are a disgrace.


----------



## Macquack (21 October 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> And a repudiation of fwits in the media like Alan Jones and Ray Hadley who think they can run the country through a microphone.
> 
> They are a disgrace.



I have been listening to a bit of Ray Hadley on 106.7, he is not the sharpest tool in the shed.


----------



## SirRumpole (21 October 2018)

Macquack said:


> I have been listening to a bit of Ray Hadley on 106.7, he is not the sharpest tool in the shed.




Tool is a very apt description.


----------



## Darc Knight (21 October 2018)

Macquack said:


> I have been listening to a bit of Ray Hadley on 106.7, he is not the sharpest tool in the shed.




He was actually put into a program for the well above average I.Q students or something as a youngster.but didn't apply himself apparently, so he went into race calling.
He's not dumb, neither is Alan Jones. They just seem a bit "corrupt" in that they got rid of Turnbull and now are going after Michael McCormack.


----------



## SirRumpole (21 October 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> He was actually put into a program for the well above average I.Q students or something as a youngster.but didn't apply himself apparently, so he went into race calling.
> He's not dumb, neither is Alan Jones. They just seem a bit "corrupt" in that they got rid of Turnbull and now are going after Michael McCormack.




I 've never listened to Hadley , but smart people don't call people murderers without evidence.

Jones needs a constant legal team around him it seems to stop him getting into trouble, and both of them have giant egos. Of course that's not uncommon with a lot who command a microphone. The ABC's Phillip Adams does a pretty good job on the self infatuated commentary front too.


----------



## PZ99 (21 October 2018)

So now we have a well hung parliament. They've really ballsed it up this time   

And Hadley is a sock puppet for Murdoch. Nothing more.


----------



## SirRumpole (21 October 2018)

MT must be laughing into his G&T's in NY.


----------



## Tink (1 November 2018)




----------



## sptrawler (1 November 2018)

I think Morrison should call the election ASAP, the media isn't cutting them any slack, even though the economy and fiscal situation is slowly improving.
Today's generation want it now, just make it happen, well Labor will fulfill that requirement give them a go.
Then watch the acrobatics. lol


----------



## explod (5 November 2018)

Looks like a Federal Election will be announced soon with Scomo in full steam election mode in Qld today


----------



## SirRumpole (5 November 2018)

explod said:


> Looks like a Federal Election will be announced soon with Scomo in full steam election mode in Qld today




Campaigning ? Nah, it's just a "listen to the people" tour.


----------



## SirRumpole (5 November 2018)

One reason he may go early is that Kerryn Phelps might seek to refer Peter Dutton to the High Court.

Morrison would probably want to head off another embarrassment.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-urgent-briefing-on-peter-duttons-eligibility


----------



## sptrawler (5 November 2018)

I think he will go early, so Labor don't get the opportunity to back flip on their tax change policies, which the public is starting to get their heads around.
Just my opinion
Bill has had a union background, go in hard, then back off. 
Everyone goes, oh that sounds a lot more reasonable, it looked like it was going to be a lot worse.


----------



## basilio (7 November 2018)

First Dog on the Moons take on 
*Delilah the single mum and the seemingly endless supply of taxpayers’ money *

The Parents Next program has some new ‘requirements’ of single parents

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...e-seemingly-endless-supply-of-taxpayers-money


----------



## basilio (7 November 2018)

An almighty kick in the bollocks from The Establishment over the governments  proposals to protect the  religious freedom of Private Schools to sack gay teachers/students.

*Most humiliating moment of my career': another Anglican principal apologises for discrimination letter *
Heads of several prestigious schools apologise for signing a letter drafted by the church

David Marr

Wed 7 Nov 2018 16.35 AEDT   First published on Wed 7 Nov 2018 16.20 AEDT

*Shares*
104




The heads of Abbotsleigh, Barker and Shore have apologised for joining 31 other schools in endorsing a Sydney Anglican diocese appeal for fresh legal protections for the right to discriminate. Photograph: Mick Tsikas/AAP
“This is the most humiliating moment of my career,” the headmaster of Shore, Dr Tim Wright, told Guardian Australia. “I love the school. I love the boys. I feel I have let them down. I am sorry.”

Wright was one of 34 headmasters and headmistresses of Anglican schools in Sydney who signed, at the direction of the local church, an open letter calling for fresh legal protections for religious freedom. The letter cited – and did not step back from – rights religious schools already have to expel gay students and dismiss gay staff members.

Wright helped draft the letter. He now calls it an inept communication. “I thought we had put aside the issue of discriminating against gay kids and gay teachers.”

*But the minute the letter appeared he had parents and old boys on the line asking: “What on earth are you trying to say? What is this all about?”*

*The Establishment is appalled. Old boys, old girls and parents with kids at a slew of the most prestigious – and expensive – schools in Australia are demanding to know what’s going on.* In the face of this uproar, the heads of Barker and Abbotsleigh have both apologised for signing the letter.
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...can-schools-religious-freedom-appeal-misfires


----------



## Logique (23 November 2018)

Dear Scott Morrison/Michael McCormack government
Subject: my possible vote in the 2019 election

Emulating the unequivocal stance your government has taken on renewable energy targets, and relocating the Australian embassy to Jerusalem, I make the following firm statement about my possible vote in the next federal election:

I absolutely believe in considering my vote, and always will. You may rely on that. I undertake to examine the matter of whether to vote for you in 2019. I promise this will be a full and thorough review. You may reliably expect a firm response within 6-12 months. 

Of course there are different political parties offering political platforms, and naturally these need to be fully examined. As you would expect of myself and all voters , we must be flexible and responsive to changing circumstances


----------



## SirRumpole (23 November 2018)

Logique said:


> Dear Scott Morrison/Michael McCormack government
> Subject: my possible vote in the 2019 election
> 
> Emulating the unequivocal stance your government has taken on renewable energy targets, and relocating the Australian embassy to Jerusalem, I make the following firm statement about my possible vote in the next federal election:
> ...





I'm sending my thoughts and prayers to the Libs.


----------



## basilio (23 November 2018)

I think they have totally lost it. Their "energy" policy is an opportunistic figleaf desperately trying to cover a black hole.  Labours policy looks statesman like in comparison. When a Liberal Party has the  heavies in the business spectrum lining up against your policies ...

At some stage they will have to work out how to save the furniture because I think the next election could be a rout.
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...coalitions-ad-hoc-and-extreme-energy-policies
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...n-energy-plan-to-help-tackle-climate-disaster


----------



## PZ99 (23 November 2018)

I'm guessing the next election would nicely coincide with the 2019 budget. So I'm predicting a monster budget with all sorts of election sweeteners and the Govt campaigning for a referendum on that budget, rather than the events of the previous term.

It ain't over 'till the fat lady singz 


Meanwhile: "People convicted of terrorism offences could be kept in immigration detention centres indefinitely if they have been stripped of their Australian citizenship and other countries will not take them, Scott Morrison has warned."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11...tion-terrorists-in-deportation-limbo/10548106

That works for me ✔


----------



## Knobby22 (26 November 2018)

Liberal Fight Club
The first rule is tell everyone about Liberal Fight Club.


----------



## Smurf1976 (26 November 2018)

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11...atchdog-be-put-down/10553206?section=business

ASIC and the financial industry is one area.

Energy and the linked issue of emissions and climate change is another example.

The Liberal party itself is another.

All with the same underlying problems. Too much focus on economic theory and legal creativity and not enough focus on anything that involves actually doing something.

The whole concept of "outsource responsibility" and "hands off" doesn't seem to be working too well really and I think the masses are realising that. They want a leader who will actually lead, not someone who just leaves everything to go its own way and end up wherever.

The Liberals have become the anti-government really. A government that doesn't govern.

I'm not particularly keen on some of Labor's ideas but they would seem to be the only party that has a chance of being elected to government and which would actually attempt to govern if elected. The Liberals won't govern and anyone else has no chance of being elected to form a government anyway.

The surest way to win any contest is to be the only one who turns up. Labor are effectively in that position at the moment in a rather bizarre situation where those backed by the unions are willing to work whilst those who represent the bosses prefer to stand around doing nothing. Strange times indeed.


----------



## IFocus (26 November 2018)

Strange times indeed the opposition picking up a governments policy (NEG) and running with it.


----------



## DB008 (26 November 2018)

The Liberals are going to get smoked come the next election.

Scott Morrison - when asked about the Bunnings sausage fiasco and if he prefers his onions on top or bottom, he goes on a 2 minute rant and avoids the question - typical idiot politician and shows how out of touch they are.

All Bill Shorten has to do is keep his mouth shut and he is in...


----------



## sptrawler (26 November 2018)

DB008 said:


> The Liberals are going to get smoked come the next election.
> 
> Scott Morrison - when asked about the Bunnings sausage fiasco and if he prefers his onions on top or bottom, he goes on a 2 minute rant and avoids the question - typical idiot politician and shows how out of touch they are.




Too little time, too much to do.
It is hard to recover credibility, after two terms of doing nothing, due to the Senate situation.
No one to blame but themselves, six years wasted.IMO
Morrisson is a hiding to nothing, panic setting in.

The only hope they have, is silly Billy's unpopularity and as you say all he has to do is keep quiet.


----------



## sptrawler (27 November 2018)

IFocus said:


> Strange times indeed the opposition picking up a governments policy (NEG) and running with it.



That's because they didn't have any policy themselves.
That is obvious, by the back of the napkin policy regarding batteries, throw money at low income earners to encourage them to buy batteries they can't afford.
Why wouldn't they subsidise batteries, in areas they are required, to stabilise the electrical grid?
No much better to throw money out of the window, when it could destabilise the grid even further, just another pink batt brain fart.
Why wouldn't they announce, we are going to subsidise batteries as and where they are required, according to the AEMO recommendations.
Those on low incomes will be offered subsidies.
Here we go, here we go, here we go. The good ship Labor is about to sail.


----------



## PZ99 (27 November 2018)

"Pink Batteries" - Eric Abetz, 2018


----------



## SirRumpole (27 November 2018)

Smurf1976 said:


> The Liberals have become the anti-government really. A government that doesn't govern.




But that is the Lib's basic philosophy, smaller government and get out of the way of business.

It clearly hasn't worked in a lot of sectors but their ideology doesn't allow them to move on and admit that there is a role for governments in managing the economy and society.


----------



## Humid (27 November 2018)

sptrawler said:


> That's because they didn't have any policy themselves.
> That is obvious, by the back of the napkin policy regarding batteries, throw money at low income earners to encourage them to buy batteries they can't afford.
> Why wouldn't they subsidise batteries, in areas they are required, to stabilise the electrical grid?
> No much better to throw money out of the window, when it could destabilise the grid even further, just another pink batt brain fart.
> ...




What do you earn a year
Define a low income.....


----------



## sptrawler (27 November 2018)

Humid said:


> What do you earn a year
> Define a low income.....



Last year $65k.
I doesn't matter how I define low income, the politicians are the ones who are defining it and making decissions accordingly.


----------



## SirRumpole (27 November 2018)

Liberal Party HQ.


----------



## PZ99 (27 November 2018)

Sheets going down:

PM gives notice of May election as Liberal MP defects to crossbench

It looks like Australians will head to the polls for a federal election in May, after the Prime Minister announced the Treasurer would deliver the 2019 Budget in April.

Scott Morrison's announcement came at the same time as Liberal backbencher Julia Banks announced she would be moving to the crossbench, further weakening the Government's hold on House of Representatives.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-27/follow-live-australia-headed-for-may-election/10558216

Can't wait for that budget - gonna be a beaudee


----------



## sptrawler (27 November 2018)

PZ99 said:


> Sheets going down:
> 
> PM gives notice of May election as Liberal MP defects to crossbench
> 
> It looks like Australians will head to the polls for a federal election in May, after the Prime Minister announced the Treasurer would deliver the 2019 Budget in April.




We should have just arrived back, from our pre Shorten cruise, to the Med and Scandinavia.


----------



## PZ99 (27 November 2018)

sptrawler said:


> We should have just arrived back, from our pre Shorten cruise, to the Med and Scandinavia.



Greece is the word? lol


----------



## sptrawler (27 November 2018)

PZ99 said:


> Greece is the word? lol




Might as well get on with the bucket list, before I'm stopped from spending it. lol


----------



## Humid (28 November 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Last year $65k.
> I doesn't matter how I define low income, the politicians are the ones who are defining it and making decissions accordingly.




My point was this scheme may suit you 
Did you take the rebates on your new solar system?
When they first introduced solar panels with the ridiculous tariffs the people who cashed in on it probably were the ones that needed it the least and was pure economics.
How would it destabilise the grid further?


----------



## Logique (28 November 2018)

Humid said:


> My point was this scheme may suit you
> Did you take the rebates on your new solar system?
> When they first introduced solar panels with the ridiculous tariffs *the people who cashed in on it probably were the ones that needed it the least* and was pure economics.
> How would it destabilise the grid further?



Reverse Robin Hood for sure.  I remember when it was a 60c feed in tariff here in NSW. It was all Green insiders and the well heeled who cashed in, they knew a good thing when they saw it. All paid for by increased tariffs on regular folks who couldn't afford the up front costs of a solar panel system.  

Bill Shorten's proposed $2k towards batteries will be no different.  'Electricity Bill'


----------



## sptrawler (28 November 2018)

Humid said:


> How would it destabilise the grid further?




Solar is causing huge problems with system stability, basically the system is set up so the power flows from the source(power station), to the load with the voltage stepped down along the way. The roof top solar is working the other way, which makes voltage control at the load very difficult.
The other problem is, the solar generation causes large load swings, which causes headaches for frequency control.
A more hollistic and technical approach is required, to ensure areas that have the greatest issues, are given priority.
There is a lot written about this in the thread 'the future of energy generation and storage'.


----------



## Humid (28 November 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Solar is causing huge problems with system stability, basically the system is set up so the power flows from the source(power station), to the load with the voltage stepped down along the way. The roof top solar is working the other way, which makes voltage control at the load very difficult.
> The other problem is, the solar generation causes large load swings, which causes headaches for frequency control.
> A more hollistic and technical approach is required, to ensure areas that have the greatest issues, are given priority.
> There is a lot written about this in the thread 'the future of energy generation and storage'.




Yeah I understand that but you were talking about batteries?


----------



## Humid (28 November 2018)

Logique said:


> Reverse Robin Hood for sure.  I remember when it was a 60c feed in tariff here in NSW. It was all Green insiders and the well heeled who cashed in, they knew a good thing when they saw it. All paid for by increased tariffs on regular folks who couldn't afford the up front costs of a solar panel system.
> 
> Bill Shorten's proposed $2k towards batteries will be no different.  'Electricity Bill'




I thought the 2 k was for peeps on low income?


----------



## sptrawler (28 November 2018)

Humid said:


> Yeah I understand that but you were talking about batteries?



That is why I said, areas with the greatest issues, should be given priority.
It should be deployed on a technical basis, not a vote catching basis.
Somewhat like the problem with the way the NBN was deployed, it should have been rolled out to CBD's first, so that high usage would help pay for the build.
Rather than to lower socioeconomic areas, where usage was low and take up was slow.


----------



## PZ99 (28 November 2018)

Liberal MP Craig Kelly plans to run as an independent at the next election and is considering quitting the party immediately, in the latest blow to unity inside the Morrison government.

The Coalition is braced for further defections following Julia Banks' bombshell resignation on Tuesday and MPs are openly speculating about who could be next - with Mr Kelly top of the list.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...aces-for-more-defections-20181128-p50iyk.html

Crikey we may not even get to the budget ?


----------



## Smurf1976 (28 November 2018)

PZ99 said:


> Crikey we may not even get to the budget ?



Does anyone at this point seriously think there's any chance at all of the Coalition winning the next election?

I mean seriously. Personal political preferences aside the government is basically self-destructing at this point.


----------



## sptrawler (28 November 2018)

PZ99 said:


> Liberal MP Craig Kelly plans to run as an independent at the next election and is considering quitting the party immediately, in the latest blow to unity inside the Morrison government.




Well I guess a lot will be trying to save their skins, if they lose their seat they have to get a real job.
 I personally think that there is a massive over reaction to media coverage.

There is nothing surer, than the media will talk up a story, to make a story. IMO

The Craig Kelly issue is about pre selection, not disunity in the Morrison Government.


----------



## wayneL (28 November 2018)

Smurf1976 said:


> Does anyone at this point seriously think there's any chance at all of the Coalition winning the next election?
> 
> I mean seriously. Personal political preferences aside the government is basically self-destructing at this point.



No,  they're rooted. 

Alienated their base and there are deep divisions within the party


----------



## Smurf1976 (28 November 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Well I guess a lot will be trying to save their skins, if they lose their seat they have to get a real job.



I think it has dawned upon quite a few that not only is the party likely to lose government, it is likely to lose seats on a large enough scale such that for any individual MP the chance of losing is high enough to warrant serious consideration of their own plan B.


----------



## CBerg (28 November 2018)

PZ99 said:


> ...
> Crikey we may not even get to the budget ?




The way the Libs are atm I'd be surprised if we make it to Australia Day at the latest without an election being called. If I was GG I would be dissolving the government as it's just atrocious. 

Libs are rocking up to the fight with sticks in their hand while Labor are bringing a flame thrower. It's not even a competition it's pathetic.


----------



## sptrawler (28 November 2018)

CBerg said:


> The way the Libs are atm I'd be surprised if we make it to Australia Day at the latest without an election being called. If I was GG I would be dissolving the government as it's just atrocious.
> 
> Libs are rocking up to the fight with sticks in their hand while Labor are bringing a flame thrower. It's not even a competition it's pathetic.



To be perfectly honest and balanced, most of the ruckus is being generated by the press, the Government has been operating on a slim majority since the election.
Labor are playing a smart game, by keeping silly Billy under the radar, because his approval rating is lower than a fart in a phone box.
What the Government IMO needs to do, is sit back and come up with sensible policy, it isn't that hard.
For one, I would be taking the pi$$ out of the cash for batteries splash, what an absolute joke, give the poor $2k to buy $12k of $hit that will never pay for itself.
https://www.smh.com.au/money/planni...mily-panels-enerby-bills-20181029-p50coa.html


----------



## CBerg (29 November 2018)

sptrawler said:


> To be perfectly honest and balanced, most of the ruckus is being generated by the press, the Government has been operating on a slim majority since the election.
> Labor are playing a smart game, by keeping silly Billy under the radar, because his approval rating is lower than a fart in a phone box.
> What the Government IMO needs to do, is sit back and come up with sensible policy, it isn't that hard.
> For one, I would be taking the pi$$ out of the cash for batteries splash, what an absolute joke, give the poor $2k to buy $12k of $hit that will never pay for itself.
> https://www.smh.com.au/money/planni...mily-panels-enerby-bills-20181029-p50coa.html



I tend to agree about beat up in the media but it's all based on what you see/hear in the media so how do they beat that? How many people are realistically looking further into the situation then seeing the Libs dump their leader & they're still having internal crisis's every 2nd week?

Being fair to Labor I think the polls are off about Shorten's approval rating personally and clinging on to that is a bit of false hope for the Libs. I just don't think the Libs have the guts to sit down & focus on what needs to be done instead of bickering between themselves.

I think Australia with the right leader and party could do some really interesting & great things in a lot of spaces right now but both parties are more of the same old same old. Everyone is screaming out for a leader and all we're being offered is middle management.


----------



## Humid (29 November 2018)

Banking royal commissions and Baaaaaa baaabarnaby rooting his staff and knifing your prime minister in the back and not even getting that right lol
Bloody media 

Take on the unions and cut penalty rates I think that shows you what this mob is about


----------



## Logique (29 November 2018)

Humid said:


> I thought the 2 k was for peeps on low income?



Define low income! Labor says it's less than $180,000







> https://www.sbs.com.au/news/labor-to-offer-2000-battery-rebates-for-homes-in-energy-plan
> ..From 2020, Labor would cut the upfront costs of buying and installing batteries for *homes earning less than $180,000* with rebates worth up to $2000 each.
> Labor's energy spokesman Mark Butler said the Labor battery initiative would help ease pressure on the electricity grid during peak times...


----------



## jbocker (29 November 2018)

So we will be off to an election. I don't usually comment on politics but me thinks..
Dutton dressed as lamb (to the slaughter) and Tony (off to) Abbottoir and Bill (couldn't) Shorten the odds. Will we all end up better off? Me answer: it is a Far Call.

I saw the political analogy in my two 2yo grandkids (genders will not be specified) screaming their nappies off in a full blooded 'ME ME ME is all that matters' tantrum. 
Their father walks in and yells "*WHAT* is this!! … *PARLIAMENT*?!!!

I deadest spat my scrambled eggs across the table. The kids loved that (must have thought they were media for a moment).


----------



## Junior (29 November 2018)

CBerg said:


> Being fair to Labor I think the polls are off about Shorten's approval rating personally and clinging on to that is a bit of false hope for the Libs.




Agreed.  The issue here is that "Scomo" is becoming less and less likeable by the day.


----------



## Logique (30 November 2018)

wayneL said:


> No,  they're rooted.
> Alienated their base and there are deep divisions within the party



Worse, they'll do Labor's dirty work before they go. They'll go and sign the Paris Agreement, so that Labor will always be able to say "..the Coalition signed that, don't blame us".

The Sisterhood is one future career path, eg Banks and Bishop, not sure what the blokes will do


----------



## basilio (3 December 2018)

The splits in the Liberal party between the moderates and reactionaries has reached the stage of open rebellion.  When a prominent Liberal Party leader decides the next election should feature *Independent Liberals* running against the current party  it could only be a blood bath.

Check out his analyis of the current party and suggested platform for such a group.

_It is simply impossible for many Liberal voters to vote for a party that:

_

_works to prevent any action on climate change
_
_has the potential to be controlled by the mining industry or whichever new industry is willing to pay for favours (clubs, internet gambling, pokies, firearms and many more)
_
_rejects the establishment of an integrity commission
_
_rejects donation reform and transparency and promotes members for their fundraising skills rather than policy and communication skills
_
_backs the Adani coalmine, which has no social licence and is inconsistent with our need to tackle climate change; and
_
_regardless of the election result seems to be heading towards installing Tony Abbott or Peter Dutton as the next party leader
_
_ 
Liberal voters will align with independent Liberals who have real world experience, who will put the interests of their electorates first and who support: _

_tight fiscal responsibility so the country operates within its means
_
_strong border controls, backed by a compassionate approach to the treatment of refugees
_
_free enterprise and small business, balanced with appropriate regulation to ensure competition is fair
_
_transparency, integrity and trust; and
_
_real action on climate change that is consistent with what the science is demanding_
* Coal, coal, coal and soaring emissions – as a Liberal, I have had enough *
Oliver Yates
Trust in the Liberals has been destroyed, and no amount of ‘shuffling the deck chairs’ will change the outcome of the next federal election
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ring-emissions-as-a-liberal-i-have-had-enough


----------



## explod (3 December 2018)

basilio said:


> The splits in the Liberal party between the moderates and reactionaries has reached the stage of open rebellion.  When a prominent Liberal Party leader decides the next election should feature *Independent Liberals* running against the current party  it could only be a blood bath.
> 
> Check out his analyis of the current party and suggested platform for such a group.
> 
> ...



Couldn't have ever put it better Bas.   Ears are certainly sticking out, not taking in sound and the brains have drained into the aristocratic/ILLUMINATI/lost into the money thingo pockets.

Shocking wild weather here at Warrnambool, so stay warm and party.


----------



## SirRumpole (3 December 2018)

basilio said:


> Trust in the Liberals has been destroyed, and no amount of ‘shuffling the deck chairs’ will change the outcome of the next federal election




Although stranger things have happened I think the Libs "strike" of minimal sitting days before the next election will do them as much harm as sacking Turnbull. It shows that they fear scrutiny and really haven't got anything to offer.

They really do stink politically.


----------



## basilio (4 December 2018)

The reactionary rump of the Liberal Party has decided  to steamroll local selection committees to protect it's  members right to rule.  The inevitable consequence will be independent Liberal candidates standing against these trogs in the next election.

It will be interesting to see how preferances are offered in such a scenario.


----------



## sptrawler (4 December 2018)

IMO Turnbull is showing why he needed to be gone, he is starting to look like Rudd resurrected.
He should try for pre selection with Labor, then roll silly Billy.


----------



## Humid (4 December 2018)

I think the government is a reflection of the people who voted for it
Raise your hands.....


----------



## sptrawler (4 December 2018)

Humid said:


> I think the government is a reflection of the people who voted for it
> Raise your hands.....



Jeez Humid, is that you in the front, with your hand up?


----------



## Humid (4 December 2018)

Seriously what would a liberal gov offer a blue collar construction worker......

Calm down SP dont get visions of the village people 

Its fun to stay at the Ymca
Hope that song gets stuck in your bald head homer


----------



## sptrawler (4 December 2018)

Humid said:


> Seriously what would a liberal gov offer a blue collar construction worker......



They will offer you about the same as Labor will, which is sod all lol, you are the middle income earners that pay all the tax. 
Stick that up your sweaty hi viz jacket, Humid.


----------



## Humid (5 December 2018)

Nah mate they just conned you into thinking you were something you never were
Do you honestly believe you would have what you have now without a union structure in the workplace
Look at labour hire now and mining it’s a race to the bottom flat rate 10 year old rates
HiVis and all

Put your hand up and don’t deny who you voted for by trying to deflect it my way
Homer


----------



## Knobby22 (5 December 2018)

Humid said:


> Nah mate they just conned you into thinking you were something you never were
> Do you honestly believe you would have what you have now without a union structure in the workplace
> Look at labour hire now and mining it’s a race to the bottom flat rate 10 year old rates
> HiVis and all
> ...




The Liberal party founder Menzies specifically created the Liberal Party for the middle class and actually started the wealthy class should look after themselves. And I think they did that for many years.
Of course that was then.


----------



## Humid (5 December 2018)

I recently did a shutdown in the mid west for a labour hire company.
It was a 1 week shut and the letter of offer stated $45 per hour and I was to be working day shift.
They employ you in Perth and tell you the rate is $32 per hour even though there’s no work in Perth.
On arrival to site I was informed I’d be on nights so I asked what’s the loading for nights and was told to contact the labour hire company.
Anyway finished the shut and the week later I get my payslip email and bugger me days and nights are the same rate who would of thought lol
It gets better even though I did 80 hours my super contribution was 35 hours and you guessed it on the Perth rate of $32.
Liberals looking after the working man since.....never


----------



## sptrawler (5 December 2018)

Humid said:


> I recently did a shutdown in the mid west for a labour hire company.
> It was a 1 week shut and the letter of offer stated $45 per hour and I was to be working day shift.
> They employ you in Perth and tell you the rate is $32 per hour even though there’s no work in Perth.
> On arrival to site I was informed I’d be on nights so I asked what’s the loading for nights and was told to contact the labour hire company.
> ...




Well everyone can make stuff up, if you have an issue, you can always contact

https://www.fairwork.gov.au/

Set up by labor,and still the same extra union weighting.

I could tell you about the the time, we had an 8 week strike and two union organisers, sold us down the river. Told us we were going to get everything we asked for, so go back to work as the union was removing their protection, then we got nothing.
One of the organisers became a Labor Senator, the other was one of the best known militant union organisers of the day, a motion was put on the books that they were never to show their face at our workplace again. It was one of the strongest unionised sites in W.A.
That is the fortunate thing about being older you have lived through more things and seen more things.
The union works much harder for the workers, when the Libs are in, when labor are in the worker gets sod all.
When the Libs were in in W.A, Barnett talked about increasing the service charge for electricity, labor and the media screamed it would hurt those who could least afford it.
What did Labor do as soon as they got in doubled it.
Labor doing what it does best, telling people what they want to hear, then doing the opposite.


----------



## Humid (5 December 2018)

It’s no stuff up mate that’s how they roll.


----------



## sptrawler (5 December 2018)

Humid said:


> It’s no stuff up mate that’s how they roll.



Well unless that is what you agreed to when you signed on, you have every right to go to the fair work commission, they aren't allowed under pay you.
Also the ATO will want to know if they have put insufficient super away for you.


----------



## Humid (5 December 2018)

Geez mate do you think these grubs don’t know what their doing


----------



## Humid (5 December 2018)

https://www.afr.com/news/policy/ind...partisan-fair-work-commission-20170323-gv50he

Not to sure about your union weighting either


----------



## sptrawler (5 December 2018)

Humid said:


> Geez mate do you think these grubs don’t know what their doing



Well it sounds like someone doesn't know what they are doing, either you for signing up for work that didn't pay you enough, or them for underpaying you.
The fair work commission is made up of a lot of members.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Work_Commission

*President[edit]*

Justice Iain JK Ross AO (M)
*Vice Presidents[edit]*

Vice President A Hatcher (S)
Vice President J Catanzariti (S)
*Deputy presidents[edit]*

Senior Deputy President JM Hamberger (S)
Deputy President RS Hamilton (M)
Deputy President PJ Sams AM (S)
Deputy President A Booth (S)
Deputy President I Asbury (B)
Deputy President A Gooley (M)
Deputy President J Lawrence (S)
Deputy President V Gostencnik (M)
Deputy President J Kovacic (C)
Deputy President G Bull (S)
Deputy President M Binet (P)
Deputy President R Clancy (M)
Deputy President LE Dean (S)
Deputy President PC Anderson (A)
Deputy President AC Colman (M)
Deputy President I Masson (M)
Deputy President A Beaumont (P)
Deputy President A Millhouse (M)
*Commissioners[edit]*

Commissioner AL Cribb (M)
Commissioner PJ Spencer (B)
Commissioner BD Williams (P)
Commissioner DS McKenna (S)
Commissioner IW Cambridge (S)
Commissioner PJ Hampton (A)
Commissioner MP Bissett (M)
Commissioner C Simpson (B)
Commissioner T Lee (M)
Commissioner S Booth (B)
Commissioner B Riordan (S)
Commissioner D Gregory (M)
Commissioner L Johns (S)
Commissioner N Wilson (M)
Commissioner T Saunders (S/N)
Commissioner T Cirkovic (M)
Commissioner C Platt (A)
Commissioner K Harper-Greenwell (M)
Commissioner J Hunt (B)
Commissioner S McKinnon (M)


----------



## Humid (5 December 2018)

I’m really starting to think you are the real Homer Simpson

So run me through the labor stooges in the fair work commission on your list


----------



## sptrawler (5 December 2018)

Humid said:


> I’m really starting to think you are the real Homer Simpson
> 
> So run me through the labor stooges in the fair work commission on your list



No one is saying they are union stooges, only that the union has representation, which they didn't have in the Industrial relations commission which preceded it.
I'm really starting to understand, who stuffed up your work conditions and pay, you complained about


----------



## Humid (5 December 2018)

I just turned up and did what I was asked to do and went home.
I’ve been through the commission before and won against Kentz.
I think your a dinosaur whose had one job in the last 20 years and really don’t have a clue about mining and oil and gas employment 
Let me guess Alcoa?


----------



## sptrawler (5 December 2018)

Humid said:


> I just turned up and did what I was asked to do and went home.
> I’ve been through the commission before and won against Kentz.
> I think your a dinosaur whose had one job in the last 20 years and really don’t have a clue about mining and oil and gas employment
> Let me guess Alcoa?



Time to move on.
I've never worked for Alcoa, but have heard the conditions are great.
With regard the commission, Shorten appointed the two vice presidents.
http://www.billshorten.com.au/new_appointments_to_fair_workcommission

Also Abetz hates the fair work commission.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...s-anti-business-are-clearly-wrong-says-expert
So they obviously aren't doing what the Libs want, which is probably a good thing.

With regard yourself and taking on shutdown contracts, probably best to have a list of questions to ask before you sign on. 
Then you shouldn't get any suprises.


----------



## Humid (5 December 2018)

You just don’t get it do you
All the shutdown labour hire mobs are the same 
They give you 2shirts a pair of glasses a glove clip and hard hat and off you go.
I just do it when I get bored or want to buy something 
I was just explaining how it works 

Cockburn Cement was full of poms
Close to that sh1thole Yangebup too


----------



## SirRumpole (6 December 2018)

Despite the talking up of the economy by Morrison and co, under the surface things aren't as rosy as they seem.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-06/households-continue-to-be-squeezed/10585830


----------



## sptrawler (7 December 2018)

I don't think anyone on here, thought things were rosy.


----------



## PZ99 (7 December 2018)

I did, and still do. You never know what you've got until it's gone. for many, things didn't feel rosy in 2006/2007 until the GFC of latter years. If we cop another one after next year a lot of us will be wanting to wind the clock back to today (whether Silly billy wins or not) 

My 2 cents


----------



## Humid (7 December 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Well it sounds like someone doesn't know what they are doing, either you for signing up for work that didn't pay you enough, or them for underpaying you.
> The fair work commission is made up of a lot of members.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Work_Commission
> 
> ...




*COMMISSION STACKING*
The Coalition has stacked the Fair Work Commission with six new deputy presidents from employer backgrounds, despite advice from tribunal president *Iain Ross* the commission required only one additional appointment to replace a forthcoming retirement.

According to _The Australian ($)_, Jobs and Industrial Relations Minister *Kelly O’Dwyer* has appointed deputies from workplace backgrounds at groups such as the Australian Mines and Metals Association, and the National Electrical and Contractors Association, meaning that the workplace umpire now contains a majority of Coalition-backed employer-linked appointees.


----------



## PZ99 (7 December 2018)

Yeah - there's nothing "independent" about Fairwork... it's just a proxy Govt department.

Shorten made a tactical error by stating he would accept the penalty rate decision before it was made.


----------



## DB008 (7 December 2018)

The Government passed the encryption bill. 

What a bunch of idiots


----------



## sptrawler (7 December 2018)

I think even the RBA, is worried about more than the encryption bill.
It may have far reaching privacy problems, but no one worries about privacy, when they are broke.


----------



## sptrawler (8 December 2018)

PZ99 said:


> Yeah - there's nothing "independent" about Fairwork... it's just a proxy Govt department.
> 
> Shorten made a tactical error by stating he would accept the penalty rate decision before it was made.



If you believe Shorten made an error, rather than take a gift, he should be able to reverse it next year when he gets in.lol


----------



## Humid (8 December 2018)

Penalty rates lol Qantas have gone one further and aren’t even going to pay its staff 
Jack up their prices at Xmas and then want people to work for nothing
Just as out of touch as politicians


----------



## explod (12 December 2018)

Sorry, a spill in the UK.

but follow the path to

The world's stuffed.  Party all the time


----------



## PZ99 (12 December 2018)

You would think they'd learn from our mistakes here with revolving door Prime Ministers.

Brexit is dead for now I reckon - stand by for the market wobblies.


----------



## Logique (13 December 2018)

They may as well just stay in Europe as accept PM May's 'deal'. They should just go with a 'No Deal' Brexit, but won't have the bottle.
I see the UK going back to another referendum, and the cultural elites will ensure the outcome is Remain this time.


----------



## Logique (15 December 2018)

The Coalition will be walloped next May (or sooner). Many share James Allan's exasperation with our political masters, on both sides.







> *Christmas in Australia’s Political Poorhouse* -14th December 2018
> James Allan is Garrick Professor of Law at the University of Queensland and the author of Democracy in Decline: https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/qed/2018/12/christmas-in-australias-political-poorhouse/ ...Mr. Pyne, Ms. Payne and Ms. O’Dwyer.  Note that ScoMo opted to put all three of those political giants in his Cabinet, but not Tony Abbott, thereby showing a stunning disregard for the views of his party’s base and core voters.
> 
> How many of you readers are still angry about how Kelly O’Dwyer attacking superannuation with changes that could easily have come from a Labor government — changes that will make it near impossible for the Libs to protest when Labor opts for further changes down the road....


----------



## Knobby22 (15 December 2018)

Nonsense. Put Abbott in Cabinet and the vote will be worse. What is needed is for those like Abbott to be kicked out of the party. If you are in a seat with one of the Murdoch apparach it is important you vote them out so the party can go back to the values of its founders.
I am very hopeful Abbott will lose his seat.


----------



## Darc Knight (16 December 2018)

Yep, I'll give anyone another chance if they haven't harmed too much previously, but Abbott and Dutton were front and centre in the Alan Jones/Macquarie/News Corp destruction of Turnbull. Looking like Abbott has just polished the grub up a bit.
We need a good middle of the road Government. I'm still giving ScoMo a chance, but then again I've become a bit disengaged.


----------



## Logique (16 December 2018)

Oh yes Abbott won in a landslide in 2013 and took 17 seats off Labor. Can't have someone like that in charge. 

We know Mr Harbourside Mansion is Labor's idea of a leader, but he was in the wrong party, and duly frittered away the margin, ably assisted by the Minister for Going to Openings


----------



## Humid (16 December 2018)

5 years of this **** show and you still manage to write labor into the farce
Rusted on much mate


----------



## Knobby22 (16 December 2018)

Logique said:


> Oh yes Abbott won in a landslide in 2013 and took 17 seats off Labor. Can't have someone like that in charge.
> 
> We know Mr Harbourside Mansion is Labor's idea of a leader, but he was in the wrong party, and duly frittered away the margin, ably assisted by the Minister for Going to Openings



He was going to come very close to winning despite the News Corp press. Not close now!


----------



## Smurf1976 (17 December 2018)

If the Liberals shifted so as to represent ordinary "middle" Australians then they'd be in a vastly better position.

That was the original intent of the party wasn't it?


----------



## SirRumpole (17 December 2018)

Smurf1976 said:


> If the Liberals shifted so as to represent ordinary "middle" Australians then they'd be in a vastly better position.




Probably not financially.

Ordinary people don't have a lot of money to donate to political parties.


----------



## Junior (17 December 2018)

ScoMo is a religious nut, not simply not relatable for most Aussies.  If the party had supported Turnbull right from the start, rather than the conservative faction blocking & sabotaging his every move, they'd be in the box seat to win the next election, IMO.  Turnbull was very well liked at the time he toppled Abbott.

Abbott, Dutton & co should go join Bernadi and allow the Libs to quit pushing right-wing ideology, and instead move to the "sensible centre" and get on with actually governing and developing real policy.

Now we will be stuck with Shorten and his identity politics.


----------



## SirRumpole (17 December 2018)

Junior said:


> Now we will be stuck with Shorten and his identity politics.





Might be the best thing if Labor get a majority in both houses.

We need to see what they will do with absolute power. The Libs blew their chance with Workchoices so Labor might over reach the other way and get thrown out in 3 years.

On the other hand, if Labor uses their power wisely they could be in for a long time.


----------



## Logique (17 December 2018)

Be careful what you wish for, especially those self funded retirees, or anyone who likes driving their cars, eating meat or turning on the electricity at night. Or budget surpluses. 

Labor's temporary Treasurer of the moment is Wayne Swan, unbelievable, Mr Surplus Next Year himself.

Yellow vests all round


----------



## Logique (17 December 2018)

Humid said:


> 5 years of this **** show and you still manage to write labor into the farce
> Rusted on much mate



I voted for Hawke and Keating. I was just responding to the urban myth that Turnbull could have won the forthcoming election. After how may bad opinion polls in a row, was it 38


----------



## Junior (17 December 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Might be the best thing if Labor get a majority in both houses.
> 
> We need to see what they will do with absolute power. The Libs blew their chance with Workchoices so Labor might over reach the other way and get thrown out in 3 years.
> 
> On the other hand, if Labor uses their power wisely they could be in for a long time.




We have spent too long with ineffective government in this country.  I agree, we need absolute power for a full term, so Australians can see what it means and then vote one way or the other.

I am concerned about Labor's tax policy though.  In it's current form, it means a substantial and wide reaching tax hikes for anyone earning more than about $100k per annum, and for self-funded retirees.  I agree Neg Gearing should be unwound, but I don't see the issue with CGT in it's current form.  Doing both at the same time will have unintended consequences.  Furthermore they are talking about messing with Family Trusts.....these are used by self-employed people to reduce the tax burden.  Again, I don't see issue with this.  It's bloody difficult to start & run your own business in this country, policy should only seek to make it easier, not harder.

I hope some of their policies end up being watered down, or phased in over a long period of time.

I'm also concerned about the continued politicising of social issues.  Gender equality in terms of pay for example.....I think Government should stay out of it.  It's already happening and moving in the right direction of it's own accord, we don't need Government meddling in hiring policies, quotas etc., this just makes Australia an even tougher place to do business than it already is.


----------



## sptrawler (17 December 2018)

Junior said:


> We have spent too long with ineffective government in this country.  I agree, we need absolute power for a full term, so Australians can see what it means and then vote one way or the other.
> 
> I am concerned about Labor's tax policy though.  In it's current form, it means a substantial and wide reaching tax hikes for anyone earning more than about $100k per annum, and for self-funded retirees.  I agree Neg Gearing should be unwound, but I don't see the issue with CGT in it's current form.  Doing both at the same time will have unintended consequences.  Furthermore they are talking about messing with Family Trusts.....these are used by self-employed people to reduce the tax burden.  Again, I don't see issue with this.  It's bloody difficult to start & run your own business in this country, policy should only seek to make it easier, not harder.
> 
> ...



If shorten gets in and makes the proposed changes, the gap between rich and poor will end up like the U.K.
All a working person will be able to do, is pay off their own home, but people won't see it untill it is too late IMO.
It won't affect me at my stage of life, but I feel sorry for the kids and grandkids, the U.K lifestyle is nothing to aspire to.


----------



## Humid (17 December 2018)

All the pommy tradies I have worked with on the big construction jobs in the last few years were whinging about poor wages and job security hardly something I’d fear from a union backed Labor government


----------



## sptrawler (17 December 2018)

Humid said:


> All the pommy tradies I have worked with on the big construction jobs in the last few years were whinging about poor wages and job security hardly something I’d fear from a union backed Labor government



Well you have just hit the nail on the head, there are thousands of pommie tradesmen over here my father was one, reason being there was no way to get ahead in the U.K.
There aren't a lot of Aussie tradesmen, moving to the U.K for a better life.


----------



## Humid (17 December 2018)

Yea but not for the reason your spruiking


----------



## Humid (17 December 2018)

https://www.smh.com.au/money/tax/re...-are-not-average-joannes-20181122-p50ho7.html

T 10% must all be on here


----------



## sptrawler (17 December 2018)

Humid said:


> https://www.smh.com.au/money/tax/re...-are-not-average-joannes-20181122-p50ho7.html
> 
> T 10% must all be on here



https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-29/potter-negative-gearing-helps-poorer-people-most/7369604
If Shorten wants to help working people get ahead, why not make negative gearing and capital gains concessions, only available up to a certain income?
He could do the same with the franking credits also, but that isn't part of the plan, the worker isn't hungry enough atm.
Well I know why, be carefull what you wish for, I look forward to your posts in 20 years time if I'm here.
And it isn't the top 10% on here, it is people who think ahead a bit, that why they are self funded.


----------



## Humid (17 December 2018)

Geez it was only set up by that germ Howard it’s not like it’s been around forever.
Bit like getting your penalty rates cut......oh that’s right that doesn’t effect you
Just wait for your trickle down benefits from the mob YOU voted for to flow through your door
Be patient Homer


----------



## sptrawler (17 December 2018)

Humid said:


> Geez it was only set up by that germ Howard it’s not like it’s been around forever.
> Bit like getting your penalty rates cut......oh that’s right that doesn’t effect you
> Just wait for your trickle down benefits from the mob YOU voted for to flow through your door
> Be patient Homer



Firstly you don't know who i voted for, secondly why not answer the question, rather than burst into a rant?
So back to the question, why not have the benefits capped on actual gross wages, so that low to middle income earners aren't hit and still get help out of the $hit pit?


----------



## Darc Knight (17 December 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Firstly you don't know who i voted for, secondly why not answer the question, rather than burst into a rant?
> So back to the question, why not have the benefits capped on actual gross wages, so that low to middle income earners aren't hit and still get help out of the $hit pit?




You should start a thread "how to retire by 55" in the private area. It would be a great contribution to the Forum like @Skate 's thread (considering I've temporarily dropped the ball with my thread).


----------



## SirRumpole (17 December 2018)

sptrawler said:


> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-29/potter-negative-gearing-helps-poorer-people-most/7369604
> If Shorten wants to help working people get ahead, why not make negative gearing and capital gains concessions, only available up to a certain income?
> He could do the same with the franking credits also, but that isn't part of the plan, the worker isn't hungry enough atm.
> Well I know why, be carefull what you wish for, I look forward to your posts in 20 years time if I'm here.
> And it isn't the top 10% on here, it is people who think ahead a bit, that why they are self funded.




The best form of investment for retirement is your own home, not renting someone elses.

Negative gearing takes away home ownership from those who need it and gives it to those who don't.

Make it available to a certain income, or limit it to one property only, but Labor's plan seems the best compromise to me.


----------



## sptrawler (17 December 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> You should start a thread "how to retire by 55" in the private area. It would be a great contribution to the Forum like @Skate 's thread (considering I've temporarily dropped the ball with my thread).



I'm no expert and if you asked my wife, if she would go through it again, there would be a resounding no.
It involves buying sod all for yourself, and investing in money making assets, I started by picking up lawn mowers from garage sales and doing them up on my days off, the same with cars from auctions. Wouldn't work today, no one wants a lawn let alone mow it, also cars in relative terms have become cheap.
When i had saved $10k I bought a flat for $40k and rented it out, then when that was paid off bought a cheap house on a developable block.
Then sold the flat and our house, for a deposit on house in a good location, when I paid everything off, I down sized and put the money in super.
What my wife would say would be, "yes and I didn't even have carpets on the floor, you tight ar$e". lol


----------



## Humid (17 December 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Firstly you don't know who i voted for, secondly why not answer the question, rather than burst into a rant?
> So back to the question, why not have the benefits capped on actual gross wages, so that low to middle income earners aren't hit and still get help out of the $hit pit?




Can’t they build?


----------



## sptrawler (17 December 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> The best form of investment for retirement is your own home, not renting someone elses.
> 
> Negative gearing takes away home ownership from those who need it and gives it to those who don't.
> 
> Make it available to a certain income, or limit it to one property only, but Labor's plan seems the best compromise to me.



I agree, except Labors plan is taking a sledge hammer to an acorn, it hurts the little man ,more than the rich.
It is basically a tax grab, at the expense of the little man, like i said they could easily make it linked to assett/income test.
People haven't thought it through IMO, the other problem with Australia is falling productivity, there is no better way to motivate people than when they are hungry.


----------



## Humid (17 December 2018)

Anyone here reckon Homer didn’t vote Liberal?


----------



## sptrawler (17 December 2018)

Humid said:


> Can’t they build?



Obviously went straight through to the keeper.


----------



## sptrawler (17 December 2018)

Humid said:


> Anyone here reckon Homer didn’t vote Liberal?



Like I said no one knows what I voted, I don't know who I will vote for next election, untill closer to the date, when their promises and BS has been tested.
ATM the only ones who can possibly get a clear majority is Labor, if they toned down their platform, I will vote for them. The problem at the moment is, their policies will give them a huge surplus, at the expense of working people's living standards, in my opinion.
On the opposite side of the ledger is the Libs, who haven't really got anything on the table, so ATM I wouldn't vote for them.
I am not rusted on to either party, just take the policies as they come, and try and work out which I think are better for the little bloke.


----------



## Knobby22 (17 December 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Like I said no one knows what I voted, I don't know who I will vote for next election, untill closer to the date, when their promises and BS has been tested.
> ATM the only ones who can possibly get a clear majority is Labor, if they toned down their platform, I will vote for them. The problem at the moment is, their policies will give them a huge surplus, at the expense of working people's living standards, in my opinion.
> On the opposite side of the ledger is the Libs, who haven't really got anything on the table, so ATM I wouldn't vote for them.
> I am not rusted on to either party, just take the policies as they come, and try and work out which I think are better for the little bloke.




I agree. If taxes are to rise to get rid of some of the distortions especially in the property market to enable new home buyers to be able to compete then what must happen is a large percentage of that tax claimed results in a saving in income tax and is used wisely. I think Shorten will do this but he will have to fight the left of the party who will want to spend it unwisely.


----------



## Junior (17 December 2018)

Knobby22 said:


> I agree. If taxes are to rise to get rid of some of the distortions especially in the property market to enable new home buyers to be able to compete then what must happen is a large percentage of that tax claimed results in a saving in income tax and is used wisely. I think Shorten will do this but he will have to fight the left of the party who will want to spend it unwisely.




As much as I find Bill Shorten to be unpleasant to watch & listen to, I'm starting to think maybe it's wise to take the good with the bad in terms of their tax policies.  At least they are clear and well thought out.  We haven't seen that in years from either side of politics.

When we inevitably experience a real recession in this country, I expect we'll see a shift back in the other direction again where we realise small business and middle-high income earners need some relief too, and playing this game of let's tax the "top of end of town" will get old quickly.  Especially once we all realise Bill Shorten and his mates ARE the top end of town.  And the fact that the "top end of town" employ everybody else in this country, and are already taxed at high rates.


----------



## Smurf1976 (17 December 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Probably not financially.
> 
> Ordinary people don't have a lot of money to donate to political parties.



Financially that would be true but they'd get elected for sure.

The problem as I see it is that both major parties are held captive and neither represents the ordinary employee, small business owner or small time investor. They're not much good when it comes to anything scientific and for that matter even with big business there's a lack of any real knowledge.

The idea of outright banning all political donations and having taxpayer funding of campaigns has merit in my view. It would cost yes but it removes the entire concept of financial backing of politicians influencing policy and that would be of major benefit.

I'd also like to see a lot more ordinary people elected. People like doctors and scientists would be great but I'd take a truck driver over yet another lawyer or union hack that's for sure. The truck driver may not have a degree but they'll bring more real life perspective than career politicians from the same old law / union background ever will. Plus they'll have enough sense to listen to what the scientists or whoever have to say on a subject and consider that advice rather than being a know all.


----------



## Smurf1976 (17 December 2018)

Junior said:


> When we inevitably experience a real recession in this country



My biggest concern politically is that we're setting ourselves up for a massive problem economically.

Energy is the only relevant subject I'll claim expertise on and that one's nothing sort of a monumental stuff up with how it has all been approached. It's not one problem or even two or three, there's huge problems right through the industry from regulation to technical and they all ultimately come back to politics. 

It would seem amazing if the only policy area I know a lot about was the only one with such problems so my assumption is that rather a lot of other things will also have major issues. 

Back in the Keating era there was constant talk about the need for Australia to be "internationally competitive", words to that effect being in the news almost daily. In 2018 I can't remember the last time I heard any politician say anything to that effect - it would be years ago now since that sort of thing was a focus.


----------



## Junior (17 December 2018)

Smurf1976 said:


> Back in the Keating era there was constant talk about the need for Australia to be "internationally competitive", words to that effect being in the news almost daily. In 2018 I can't remember the last time I heard any politician say anything to that effect - it would be years ago now since that sort of thing was a focus.




Turnbull tried that with his corporate tax cuts, it didn't go down too well!  

It's amazing to me that so many Australians are going to vote in a Government which is going to raise taxes, significantly, for a large percentage of the population!  I guess it shows how angry and disillusioned voters are with the current mob.  Look at what happens when they try to hike taxes in France??


----------



## SirRumpole (17 December 2018)

Junior said:


> It's amazing to me that so many Australians are going to vote in a Government which is going to raise taxes, significantly, for a *large percentage *of the population!




I doubt that.

A very small number of people negatively gear, those who do are mostly in the $100k + income bracket which is the top 20% of income.


----------



## sptrawler (17 December 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> I doubt that.
> 
> A very small number of people negatively gear, those who do are mostly in the $100k + income bracket which is the top 20% of income.




Also those on less than $50k pay no effective tax, just shows the public perception between rich and poor, is $50k. Weird


----------



## sptrawler (17 December 2018)

Junior said:


> It's amazing to me that so many Australians are going to vote in a Government which is going to raise taxes, significantly, for a large percentage of the population!  I guess it shows how angry and disillusioned voters are with the current mob.  Look at what happens when they try to hike taxes in France??




Australians are apathetic and take little interest in politics, other than headlines.
The problem I see is, Labor will be calling the election result a mandate, to go in boots and all.
It will work wonders for the budget bottom line, but someone will be paying for it, most haven't worked out who.IMO


----------



## basilio (17 December 2018)

*How to commit hari kari with a Broad Sword.
*
Country Party MP Andrew Broad used a Sugar Daddy website to set up a arrangement with a young woman. (And was this the only time ?)  He had dinner with her in Hong Kong on a government funded official trip.  She decided he was a total drop kick and told the story to No Idea. ScoMo is watching the last vestiges of credibility and viability in his Government ebbing into the ashes. 

*Andrew Broad built himself a pedestal, then fell off it*
https://www.canberratimes.com.au/po...edestal-then-fell-off-it-20181217-p50mr4.html


----------



## Knobby22 (18 December 2018)

Logique said:


> Oh yes Abbott won in a landslide in 2013 and took 17 seats off Labor. Can't have someone like that in charge.
> 
> We know Mr Harbourside Mansion is Labor's idea of a leader, but he was in the wrong party, and duly frittered away the margin, ably assisted by the Minister for Going to Openings




This very good article by the Young Liberal President of the North Ryde branch of the party says it all and shows what a lie (propaganda?) the above statements (repeated from a well known news source) are.

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/...-taken-the-base-with-him-20181212-p50lqa.html


----------



## Junior (18 December 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> I doubt that.
> 
> A very small number of people negatively gear, those who do are mostly in the $100k + income bracket which is the top 20% of income.




I'm more thinking about the huge variance in policies around Income Tax.  Bracket creep has seen the effective tax rate rise to near the highest level in 20 years ( see here).  The Labor Party will only cut taxes for those earning less than around $80k, and make no changes to higher tax brackets.  

Bracket creep is effectively a tax hike every year, and no Government will ever be brave enough to index tax rates to wage inflation, because that would kill their ability to periodically come out and offer 'income tax cuts' whenever they need to win an election and bribe their chosen segment of the population.

Most people think, well bad luck, if you earn a higher income you can afford it.  I'm in my mid-30s and a lot of people in my network of friends are on reasonably high salaries (ie. $100-200k).  However, if you just bought your first home in Melbourne or Sydney and are starting a family, you'll likely have a wife on low/zero salary and be trying to fund mortgage payments and supporting dependants on that one income.  For example.....a salary of $150k less tax ($46k) less mortgage pments ($40k), less HECS ($12k) = *$52,000* to support a family of 4.  By no means living in poverty, but given how healthy the federal budget is at the moment, and given years of bracket creep...surely it's time for some relief!!

So under Labor, middle/high income earners will see the effect of bracket creep continue to eat into a bigger and bigger %% of their salary.  Add to that, the changes to Neg Gearing, CGT and franking credits.  Many Australians will be handing over a much bigger chunk of their income & profits to the Government, to spend as they see fit.  I hope they can spend wisely.


----------



## SirRumpole (18 December 2018)

Junior said:


> I'm more thinking about the huge variance in policies around Income Tax. Bracket creep has seen the effective tax rate rise to near the highest level in 20 years ( see here). The Labor Party will only cut taxes for those earning less than around $80k, and make no changes to higher tax brackets.




So, would you support something like cutting the top tax bracket to 40% or less, paid for by cutting back on tax minimisation schemes like Family Trusts , neg gearing and tax free super ?

That would seem to be great for people on salaries working for a living who don't at the moment artificially reduce their taxes.


----------



## Logique (18 December 2018)

_"This very good article by the Young Liberal President of the North Ryde branch..."_

It shows no such thing! I feel for the young chap, but Young Libs might be the place for him, clearly from the left of the party, and adrift without the great sage of Point Piper.

The left of the party doesn't win elections, but they do a good job of losing them, eg Matthew Guy in the Peoples Republic of Victoria


----------



## SirRumpole (18 December 2018)

Logique said:


> _"_
> 
> The left of the party doesn't win elections, but they do a good job of losing them, eg Matthew Guy in the Peoples Republic of Victoria




Menzies would be regarded as Left these days.

How long was he in for ?


----------



## Junior (18 December 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> So, would you support something like cutting the top tax bracket to 40% or less, paid for by cutting back on tax minimisation schemes like Family Trusts , neg gearing and tax free super ?
> 
> That would seem to be great for people on salaries working for a living who don't at the moment artificially reduce their taxes.




Yes.  I think if they are going to save $$$ by closing various tax loopholes, much of this saving should be used to address bracket creep and cut personal income taxes.

The family I described in my previous post, cannot afford and don't have the resources to use Neg Gearing and Family Trusts.  They are beholden to income tax rates, and are effectively punished for having young kids and one high income earner, in terms of the very high average rate of tax they need to pay.


----------



## Junior (18 December 2018)

Logique said:


> The left of the party doesn't win elections, but they do a good job of losing them, eg Matthew Guy in the Peoples Republic of Victoria




You think Matthew Guy is a lefty??


----------



## Knobby22 (18 December 2018)

Logique said:


> _"This very good article by the Young Liberal President of the North Ryde branch..."_
> 
> It shows no such thing! I feel for the young chap, but Young Libs might be the place for him, clearly from the left of the party, and adrift without the great sage of Point Piper.
> 
> The left of the party doesn't win elections, but they do a good job of losing them, eg Matthew Guy in the Peoples Republic of Victoria



Precisely the opposite. I am Victorian, Matthew Guy lost because of the right wing taking over the party (e.g . Kroger and his mates) stacking with Mormons and letting that hard right muppets take most of the good seats.


----------



## Humid (18 December 2018)

When bracket creep comes through overtime you do sometimes question your sanity.
I’m sure all politicians are subject to it but not suffering from it.


----------



## basilio (18 December 2018)

The Andrew Broad affair goes up a gear. Turns out the Nationals have already had at least three separate women contact them about his behavior in the past 12 months.
And nothing happened... 
This is some crazy guy and a totally incompetent National Party.

*Three women allegedly come forward claiming disgraced Nationals MP Andrew Broad behaved “inappropriately”*

https://www.newidea.com.au/three-wo...onals-mp-andrew-broad-behaved-inappropriately


----------



## Junior (18 December 2018)

The top marginal tax rate is 45%, plus Medicare Levy of 2%.  So if you get a payrise....you get to keep a touch over half, and the Government just under half.  If you invest the money, that generates investment income which is taxed at your marginal rate, plus Capital Gains which are taxed.  If you spend the money, you are taxed another 10% in GST.  If you purchase a property you also pay Stamp Duty.

Compare this to lower income earners....around 50% of all Australians are net recipients, ie. claim more in benefits & welfare than what they pay in taxes.

I'm not saying any of the above is unfair, I'm just saying I don't think we need to hit high income earners any harder.  I'd rather see Government control their spending, and issue across the board tax cuts & reform...funded by the increased revenue we are seeing, on the back of strong exports and population growth.


----------



## SirRumpole (18 December 2018)

Junior said:


> funded by the increased revenue we are seeing, on the back of strong exports and population growth.




Exports of commodities which fluctuate greatly in price.

Howard made the mistake of giving permanent spending increases (Family Tax benefits for one) on the back of a temporary mining boom.

We would be silly to make that mistake again.


----------



## Junior (18 December 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Exports of commodities which fluctuate greatly in price.
> 
> Howard made the mistake of giving permanent spending increases (Family Tax benefits for one) on the back of a temporary mining boom.
> 
> We would be silly to make that mistake again.




I agree, it needs to be done in a sustainable way.  Done in a considered way as part of a larger tax reform agenda....it could lead to stronger & more reliable economic growth, as we reduce the tax burden on the individual.


----------



## Smurf1976 (18 December 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Menzies would be regarded as Left these days.



Indeed and that says it all really.

They gone too far from their original purpose and support base.


----------



## qldfrog (18 December 2018)

About junior and taxation ..even worse...buy an asset 100 ten years ago,sell it 130 or so today..you just kept with inflation
 yet you get taxed on 30..right now only 15 but after labor probably whole 30...yet you made no real money..bring back indexation...
This has been hidden by the stratospheric raise of RE and low inflation in the past decades but as this ends, the absence of indexation will decimate investors


----------



## Humid (18 December 2018)

I’ll just condense 50 odd posts
20% of people earn 100k +
The policies are pretty self explanatory


----------



## PZ99 (19 December 2018)

Junior said:


> I'm more thinking about the huge variance in policies around Income Tax.  Bracket creep has seen the effective tax rate rise to near the highest level in 20 years ( see here).  The Labor Party will only cut taxes for those earning less than around $80k, and make no changes to higher tax brackets.
> 
> Bracket creep is effectively a tax hike every year, and no Government will ever be brave enough to index tax rates to wage inflation, because that would kill their ability to periodically come out and offer 'income tax cuts' whenever they need to win an election and bribe their chosen segment of the population.
> 
> ...



I reckon abolish the Medicare surcharge for starters. I know people who actually avoid overtime for fear of earning more than $90k a year.


----------



## Junior (19 December 2018)

qldfrog said:


> About junior and taxation ..even worse...buy an asset 100 ten years ago,sell it 130 or so today..you just kept with inflation
> yet you get taxed on 30..right now only 15 but after labor probably whole 30...yet you made no real money..bring back indexation...
> This has been hidden by the stratospheric raise of RE and low inflation in the past decades but as this ends, the absence of indexation will decimate investors




Yes, hence why the 50% CGT Discount exists in the first place!!  They are taking advantage of the fact that most people don't really understand the impact of inflation.


----------



## SirRumpole (19 December 2018)

Junior said:


> Yes, hence why the 50% CGT Discount exists in the first place!!  They are taking advantage of the fact that most people don't really understand the impact of inflation.




Inflation affects everyone not just investors.


----------



## Logique (19 December 2018)

Knobby22 said:


> Precisely the opposite. I am Victorian, Matthew Guy lost because of the right wing taking over the party (e.g . Kroger and his mates) stacking with Mormons and letting that hard right muppets take most of the good seats.



The preferred narrative. The putsch against the right is on.
So none of these things then? - lobster with mobster dinner, East West Link side letter, Fishermans Bend rezoning decision, Phillip Island Ventnor rezoning decision ..


----------



## Knobby22 (19 December 2018)

Logique said:


> The preferred narrative. The putsch against the right is on.
> So none of these things then? - lobster with mobster dinner, East West Link side letter, Fishermans Bend rezoning decision, Phillip Island Ventnor rezoning decision ..



Yes exactly. They showed that they would look after the big end of town before the middle class and the state of Victoria against Liberal tenets. So why do you think Matthew Guy is left wing? He made those decisions which all sucked.

The right wing issue was a big deal though. For instance the seat of Sandringham had three people trying to be members, two women with careers good standing one from the upper house etc. and one right wing party hack who had never had a job who got the job with the aid of Kroger. 
He nearly lost to a 19 year old boy who couldn't drive. Do they think the locals are all disinterested?


----------



## Junior (19 December 2018)

Knobby22 said:


> Yes exactly. They showed that they would look after the big end of town before the middle class and the state of Victoria against Liberal tenets. So why do you think Matthew Guy is left wing? He made those decisions which all sucked.
> 
> The right wing issue was a big deal though. For instance the seat of Sandringham had three people trying to be members, two women with careers good standing one from the upper house etc. and one right wing party hack who had never had a job who got the job with the aid of Kroger.
> He nearly lost to a 19 year old boy who couldn't drive. Do they think the locals are all disinterested?




Their campaign was shocking.  They are naive to the fact that the 'crime wave' in Melbourne is primarily an issue for people who don't actually live here to obsess over.  Most parts of Melbourne are very safe, and there is a reason we have runaway population growth....people want to live here!!  

Trying to impose a fear campaign on us, and at the same time trashing the current premier, who most think is doing a pretty good job, showed how completely out of touch the Libs are at the moment.  When Guy & Morrison showed up at Pelligrini's and used it as a photo opp and chance to talk down Labor...that said it all really.  Where is the positive message, where are the policies??


----------



## IFocus (19 December 2018)

Some thing that I measure or use as a yard stick for the Liberals these days is the previous WA state government run by Colin Barnett. 

He said he would govern for all and for a Lib actually did.

No right wing ideological BS dressed up as what the base wants, no glib BS then do the opposite, no massive hand outs wink and nod to the big money  he just governed for most. 

Now a lot of people didn't like Barney but he didn't do such a bad job.

Note Federal Libs absolutely nothing like Barneys government 5 years of naval gazing and then claiming brilliant / genus economic mangers when they get a surprise surplus due to Iron ore and coal production .............really?


----------



## Smurf1976 (19 December 2018)

Junior said:


> trashing the current premier, who most think is doing a pretty good job, showed how completely out of touch the Libs are at the moment.  When Guy & Morrison showed up at Pelligrini's and used it as a photo opp and chance to talk down Labor...that said it all really.  Where is the positive message, where are the policies??



A big problem I see with the Liberals is that they don't seem keen on actually doing anything.

If they want to be elected to government then the first step is to grasp that the community expects a government to actually govern. 

Labor will end up in government not because people are convinced that they'll do a great job but because they are the only credible group that has put themselves forward with a plan to govern.


----------



## Humid (22 December 2018)

https://www.betootaadvocate.com/ent...-machines-to-rein-it-in-until-after-election/

Belly laughing


----------



## jbocker (30 December 2018)

Dutton really is proving to be THE cruel shepherd. Scathing attack on Turnbull has finally come out. Nice timing showing good xmas new year spirit. What a wonderful present to the opposition, you should be the first to roll out the red carpet when they win with a landslide and along with Abbot share roles in shoe polishing Shorten, to make sure he looks his absolute best (you have done a exemplary job so far).
You reckon _Turnbull_ had no political nous, did you mean the party needed political nous or noose.
The general consensus I would have thought, we can shut up about it all now Pete, you had your chance a few months back, when we all wanted to know...Why?.


----------



## sptrawler (30 December 2018)

Better for the Libs to tell it as it is, there is no way they have any chance of winning the next election.
They need to get back to basics, Turnbull, should never have been there in the first place.
It won't take long for equilibrium to be restored.IMO


----------



## Knobby22 (31 December 2018)

The party has moved right, or at least more in line with the U.S. conservatives. It will take many years or a split imo sptrawler. It has happened before. That was when Menzies ended up starting the Liberal Party.


----------



## sptrawler (31 December 2018)

Knobby22 said:


> The party has moved right, or at least more in line with the U.S. conservatives. It will take many years or a split imo sptrawler. It has happened before. That was when Menzies ended up starting the Liberal Party.



Well everyone can enjoy years of Labor, which I am sure they will enjoy.
So all is good.


----------



## Smurf1976 (31 December 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Better for the Libs to tell it as it is, there is no way they have any chance of winning the next election.
> They need to get back to basics




On this point I strongly agree.

Politicians of all persuasions need to get back to basics, the most basic thing of all being to actually govern.


----------



## Smurf1976 (31 December 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Well everyone can enjoy years of Labor, which I am sure they will enjoy.



My biggest concern is that Labor falls in a heap within a few years and at that point the Liberals are still in a mess. Then what do we do?

I think there's a fair chance that'll happen since a weak opposition begets a weak government and there seems no realistic chance of there being an effective opposition during Labor's first term beyond perhaps the odd random independent who might hold them to account.


----------



## SirRumpole (31 December 2018)

Smurf1976 said:


> I think there's a fair chance that'll happen since a weak opposition begets a weak government




Maybe , maybe not.

The Coalition's main failing has been it's inability to get legislation through the Senate, which indicates that the Opposition in toto (not just Labor) are fairly strong.

If anything is going to be done I think the next government should be given a majority in both Houses and see what they do with it, as scary as that sounds. That has to be better than another term of vacillation, paralysis and non achievement.


----------



## Knobby22 (31 December 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Well everyone can enjoy years of Labor, which I am sure they will enjoy.
> So all is good.



My hope is that Abbott loses his seat along with some others which allows the Libs to reinvigorate more quickly. 

A bit of existential shock such has occurred in Victoria could mean a quick recovery.


----------



## Humid (31 December 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Better for the Libs to tell it as it is, there is no way they have any chance of winning the next election.
> They need to get back to basics, Turnbull, should never have been there in the first place.
> It won't take long for equilibrium to be restored.IMO




So you live in Dalkeith and voted Labor then....


----------



## sptrawler (31 December 2018)

Humid said:


> So you live in Dalkeith and voted Labor then....



Don't believe everything you read.
DK taking the pizz.


----------



## PZ99 (31 December 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Maybe , maybe not.
> 
> The Coalition's main failing has been it's inability to get legislation through the Senate, which indicates that the Opposition in toto (not just Labor) are fairly strong.
> 
> If anything is going to be done I think the next government should be given a majority in both Houses and see what they do with it, as scary as that sounds. That has to be better than another term of vacillation, paralysis and non achievement.



I prefer no Govt getting control of both houses myself. Ever.

Most of the time it's only the bad polices that get blocked in the senate.


----------



## Humid (1 January 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Don't believe everything you read.
> DK taking the pizz.




So was I


----------



## sptrawler (3 January 2019)

It will be interesting to see how the LNP, present their case for re election.
It will have to be pretty amazing, to turn public opinion.
Having said that, I do get a feeling that people are getting worried, about silly Billy's agenda.
It all sounded great 6 months ago, when house prices were higher and the share market was higher, now his plans sound somewhat scary.lol
It should be an interesting first half of the year in 2019.


----------



## Smurf1976 (3 January 2019)

sptrawler said:


> It all sounded great 6 months ago, when house prices were higher and the share market was higher, now his plans sound somewhat scary.lol



House prices have screwed everything in my view.

I was reading an article a couple of days ago that was basically lamenting the existence of penalty rates and saying that's why cafes and so on wont open on public holidays.

My thought was very simple. Even if those workers were getting penalty rates every time they turn up to work, with essential costs now so high the wages quoted still aren't really adequate. How the hell are they supposed to live on what they're actually being paid?

That we've come to a point where we should be paying cleaners and bus drivers over $100K just so they can afford to live in Sydney or Melbourne in order to work there says it all really. It's a ludicrous situation that makes the whole economy uncompetitive.

Things like that never end well for anyone who isn't genuinely at one extreme or the other. If you're not worth $100 million+ and you're not bankrupt then you're not a winner when it all pans out and the masses see their wealth eroded one way or another.


----------



## sptrawler (3 January 2019)

Yes it certainly wouldn't take much, to bring on a recession and when that ball starts rolling it gets ugly quickly.


----------



## SirRumpole (3 January 2019)

Housing has been turned from a place of your own to raise a family to just another way that wealthy people can get even wealthier.

It's going to make investors scream, but negative gearing should be phased out (gradually). It distorts the market and sucks up money in rent that people should be using to invest in their own home.

Yes, house prices will fall, but anyone sensible realises that they were in an artificial bubble that had to burst some time.


----------



## Smurf1976 (3 January 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Yes, house prices will fall, but anyone sensible realises that they were in an artificial bubble that had to burst some time.



There's no choice as I see it. The gap between wages and house prices is just too drastic and if we were to try closing it through wages growth then business would scream pretty loudly and they'd have a fair point given the scale of the problem.


----------



## PZ99 (3 January 2019)

I would opine the housing market has already priced in the ALP's NG polices. If they fall much further obviously it'll hurt investors who put all their eggs in one basket and didn't diversify.
But for every loser there's a winner. IMV the economy is suffering from people blowing all their dough on housing rather than discretionary spending hence the low wages and other anomalies. Cheaper housing should partially address that.

P.S. I hear there might be cheap units at the Opal Tower but if you're planning to negatively gear empty apartments there you might be allocated to the leaning side of the tower to help counter balance the weight


----------



## qldfrog (3 January 2019)

Not sure i agree.NG is only worthwhile to be considered for an asset with increasing price, make no sense otherwise.
 as soon as assets price decrease,NG use will vanish.
Assets price ..all assets in australia increased due to the debt expension and migration.these are the 2 points to target if you want cheaper houses.and our government can only control the second, as QE end is a world wide decision.
Usually, the lesser the government mess up with the economy, the better..oops this will trigger a wave of outcry..but beware of unexpected consequences when you start tinkering.
No NG except for new RE ,oh and yes xx,,,and ...
KISS principle or you ultimately pay the price
My opinion only.


----------



## sptrawler (3 January 2019)

PZ99 said:


> I would opine the housing market has already priced in the ALP's NG polices.



If that was the case, the slide in prices would be slowing. It isn't the only factor in prices, but it is one of the only factors that hasn't been applied yet. IMO
Removing investors from the established home market, will IMO have a huge effect, I don't think anyone knows how it will unfold. It will be interesting to compare the outcomes, between country towns and major cities.


----------



## Humid (3 January 2019)

With the short terms government runs the Libs could reverse it.
Do you think they would?


----------



## sptrawler (3 January 2019)

Humid said:


> With the short terms government runs the Libs could reverse it.
> Do you think they would?



Someone has to reverse it, or at least slow it, especially over East. Otherwise the building industry will fall on its rear end. Then we will see some unemployment.
Just my opinion.


----------



## Smurf1976 (3 January 2019)

PZ99 said:


> I hear there might be cheap units at the Opal Tower



Opals are found in the ground and people who mine them also tend to live underground.

Opal is also the name for a petrol substitute used in communities where sniffing has been a problem. It's low octane but it runs the engine. Benefit is people can't really sniff it apparently so that's why it's used.

So putting that together we've got something that's highly flammable, not very strong and found underground. Probably not the best choice of name for a skyscraper.....


----------



## Knobby22 (3 January 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Someone has to reverse it, or at least slow it, especially over East. Otherwise the building industry will fall on its rear end. Then we will see some unemployment.
> Just my opinion.



Yes, even Joe Hockey had a few plans he would have used if he had of served under another Prime Minister.


----------



## wayneL (3 January 2019)

Knobby22 said:


> The party has moved right, or at least more in line with the U.S. conservatives. It will take many years or a split imo sptrawler. It has happened before. That was when Menzies ended up starting the Liberal Party.



Notwithstanding an ideological chasm (which exists in every party) in what way is this party right wing?


----------



## Knobby22 (3 January 2019)

Compared to the USA, not at all. Free healthcare, progressive taxation system, money for infrastructure. 
Would be considered socialist.  The British Conservatives are similar.


----------



## SirRumpole (4 January 2019)

wayneL said:


> Notwithstanding an ideological chasm (which exists in every party) in what way is this party right wing?





They value big business more than the individual. They had to be dragged kicking and screaming into holding a banking royal commission and they would rather give tax cuts to businesses instead of individuals.


----------



## ianna (4 January 2019)

I'm not an economist so please don't be too hard on me.  But following on from SR's post I have long wondered if rather than giving tax cuts to business or individuals that probable don't really need it a good way to stimulate the economy would be too give more money to old age pensioners.  Perhaps not those on part pensions but those on full pensions.  If they were to get more money they wouldn't save it for their next overseas jaunt but spend it all perhaps on the grandkids or buying food or replacing the old fridge or washer.  Just a thought.


----------



## Toyota Lexcen (4 January 2019)

home care package?
pension loans scheme?


----------



## sptrawler (4 January 2019)

ianna said:


> I'm not an economist so please don't be too hard on me.  But following on from SR's post I have long wondered if rather than giving tax cuts to business or individuals that probable don't really need it a good way to stimulate the economy would be too give more money to old age pensioners.  Perhaps not those on part pensions but those on full pensions.  If they were to get more money they wouldn't save it for their next overseas jaunt but spend it all perhaps on the grandkids or buying food or replacing the old fridge or washer.  Just a thought.




IMO it is a good point, however at the moment Australia's welfare costs are increasing exponentially, this is due to an aging population.
So the issue becomes how to fund it, one school of thought believes making businesses more profitable, makes more start up and existing ones expand which in turn creates jobs, therefore more tax comes in.
The other school of thought is give people a tax cut, this improves peoples spending power, which in turn leads to more gst and more jobs as the businesses expand to accommodate more turnover.
So it becomes a bit of a chicken and egg situation, which comes first?
It is obviously a lot more complicated than that, but it is just my take on it.
The main thing to remember is, unless we are selling something to overseas, we are just taking money from one section of the economy to give it to another section. Which is just churn.


----------



## basilio (4 January 2019)

sptrawler said:


> The other school of thought is give people a tax cut, this improves peoples spending power, which in turn leads to more gst and more jobs as the businesses expand to accommodate more turnover.




This is one approach.. How would you pay for these tax cuts ? Traditionally it has been done by cutting social security benefits, health or education programs. This redistributes money from the poorer parts of the community to the more well off. If the tax cuts are targeted at the top end of the scale it manages to bypass the lower working class/middle class sections as well.


----------



## SirRumpole (4 January 2019)

ianna said:


> I'm not an economist so please don't be too hard on me.  But following on from SR's post I have long wondered if rather than giving tax cuts to business or individuals that probable don't really need it a good way to stimulate the economy would be too give more money to old age pensioners.  Perhaps not those on part pensions but those on full pensions.  If they were to get more money they wouldn't save it for their next overseas jaunt but spend it all perhaps on the grandkids or buying food or replacing the old fridge or washer.  Just a thought.




Giving money to people who don't have their needs satisfied results in more money going into the economy as spending as pensioners or other low income earners try to raise their living standard, so yes it's a good idea if its affordable.


----------



## sptrawler (4 January 2019)

basilio said:


> If the tax cuts are targeted at the top end of the scale it manages to bypass the lower working class/middle class sections as well.



With a progressive tax system, if you give a tax cut to the bottom scale, of course those on higher tax scales get it. How else can it work?
To explain:
If you are on $100,000, and the first $40,000 is taxed at 20%, then the $60,000 earned above that is taxed at 50%.
If you drop the bottom tax rate to 10%, the persons first $40,000 is taxed less.
How can you avoid that, the only way is to INCREASE the tax rate on higher income scales, or move the tax thresholds.


----------



## Humid (4 January 2019)

How about reigning in politicians perks like their super.
I usually get the peanuts and monkeys spiel and think we already have the monkeys running the place.


----------



## wayneL (4 January 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> They value big business more than the individual. They had to be dragged kicking and screaming into holding a banking royal commission and they would rather give tax cuts to businesses instead of individuals.



That ideology I would call corporatist, rather than right. Right wing ideology is more individualist


----------



## sptrawler (4 January 2019)

Humid said:


> How about reigning in politicians perks like their super.
> I usually get the peanuts and monkeys spiel and think we already have the monkeys running the place.



I think the politicians super has been reigned in, from the ridiculous situation that existed, only the long term ones still qualify for the old system. 
No doubt what replaced it, is probably still a hell of a lot better, than what us plebs get.


----------



## PZ99 (4 January 2019)

ianna said:


> I'm not an economist so please don't be too hard on me.  But following on from SR's post I have long wondered if rather than giving tax cuts to business or individuals that probable don't really need it a good way to stimulate the economy would be too give more money to old age pensioners.  Perhaps not those on part pensions but those on full pensions.  If they were to get more money they wouldn't save it for their next overseas jaunt but spend it all perhaps on the grandkids or buying food or replacing the old fridge or washer.  Just a thought.



If the pension is too generous more people will be drawn to it so it'll break the budget.
That will then force Govts to raise taxes or increase the pension age and/or preservation age.

Tax cuts to small business is paramount IMO - otherwise wages will be attacked permanently.


----------



## Junior (4 January 2019)

PZ99 said:


> If the pension is too generous more people will be drawn to it so it'll break the budget.
> That will then force Govts to raise taxes or increase the pension age and/or preservation age.
> 
> Tax cuts to small business is paramount IMO - otherwise wages will be attacked permanently.




Agreed.  Australia is becoming increasingly tough to do business with high cost of labour and taxes.

Look to Silicon Valley in the US.....we need to encourage growth industries, startup & small business.  Our recent boom industries have been primarily "dumb" & unsustainable, i.e. dig up iron ore & coal and ship to China, build new housing on the back of easy lending and low IR.


----------



## Humid (4 January 2019)

sptrawler said:


> I think the politicians super has been reigned in, from the ridiculous situation that existed, only the long term ones still qualify for the old system.
> No doubt what replaced it, is probably still a hell of a lot better, than what us plebs get.




Yeah about 50% more and on their total salary I think not on base like me in construction


----------



## sptrawler (4 January 2019)

PZ99 said:


> If the pension is too generous more people will be drawn to it so it'll break the budget.
> That will then force Govts to raise taxes or increase the pension age and/or preservation age.
> 
> Tax cuts to small business is paramount IMO - otherwise wages will be attacked permanently.



You are spot on, the pension for a married couple is about $35,500 + cheap medicine+ cheap council rates+cheap utilities+cheap vehicle licensing+ cheap government charges.

The going rate for SMSF term deposits is 2.8%, so on $1m $28,000 + non of the above.
It beats me why someone would try and put together $1m, to be self funded.

If they put together $300,000 and put it in a term deposit, they get $8,400.
So that is $35,500 government pension(indexed)+$8,400+ all of the above.
So that is $43,900+ all the perks.
It really is a no brainer.

So what is silly Billy going to do, take the franking credit of the self funded pensioners, that are using shares, to try and stay ahead of the Government pension, priceless just priceless.
I don't know what the end game is, but it doesn't include people who invest, to be independent. lol
Lets say the perks are worth $6,000/annum, so we have round figures.
How much do you require invested, to get $50,000 per year which is indexed automatically and doesn't suffer market corrections? as opposed to the Government pension that only requires a $300,000 initial investment.


----------



## Humid (4 January 2019)

So tell me how cutting penalty rates and giving businesses tax cuts going to give the average pleb a self funding retirement


----------



## Humid (4 January 2019)

At 9.5%


----------



## sptrawler (4 January 2019)

Humid said:


> So tell me how cutting penalty rates and giving businesses tax cuts going to give the average pleb a self funding retirement




So tell me why you would bother, if your super is $300,000, you will get a 25% return by doing FA. Why would a worker, want to do without, to become self funded?


----------



## Darc Knight (4 January 2019)

Humid said:


> How about reigning in politicians perks like their super.
> I usually get the peanuts and monkeys spiel and think we already have the monkeys running the place.




Which raises a good question: why are our Governments incompetent and how do we facilitate better ones?


----------



## Humid (4 January 2019)

sptrawler said:


> So tell me why you would bother, if your super is $300,000, you will get a 25% return by doing FA. Why would a worker, want to do without, to become self funded?




Something you need to ask yourself


----------



## sptrawler (4 January 2019)

Humid said:


> Something you need to ask yourself



That is why I'm passing on my experience, it wasn't worth it.
IMO you have to be able to get seriously well off, or you have to just enjoy your life to the best of your income.
From the way things are going, there is no point in the average pleb, trying to forego life now, on the hope that the savings will give them a better life later.
In reality the writing is on the wall, that they will be required to spend what they save now, before any assistance will kick in in the future.
Which isn't bad in itself, it is the deception that goes with the transition, that pizzes me off.
I guess my saving grace was, I enjoyed investing and saving.


----------



## Humid (4 January 2019)

Geez mate we haven’t even voted yet
Seriously if your future relies solely on franking credits find a better financial adviser.


----------



## sptrawler (4 January 2019)

Humid said:


> Geez mate we haven’t even voted yet
> Seriously if your future relies solely on franking credits find a better financial adviser.



Franking credits are 30% of my income, so I'm going to adjust my income, same as you do.


----------



## Humid (4 January 2019)

Yeah mate sorry
I initially only read the first two lines.
I’m seriously considering Asia as an option if I live that long.
Bali 3 1/2 hours from Perth
under 8k per year for a nice small place 
Nasi goring cheap booze eternal warmth 
Daily swim good coffee bit of exercise nice people


----------



## sptrawler (4 January 2019)

Humid said:


> Yeah mate sorry
> I initially only read the first two lines.
> I’m seriously considering Asia as an option if I live that long.
> Bali 3 1/2 hours from Perth
> ...



A mate of mine lives in Bali, great guy, was a pressure welder.
He and his wife moved over there, a few years ago, they have just put a granny flat on their daughters place in Bibra Lake. It is the way to go, if your other half agrees, unfortunately mine doesn't. 
Over here, anyone with anything, is going to get screwed. IMO


----------



## Humid (4 January 2019)

Other halves are cheap there too....


----------



## sptrawler (4 January 2019)

Humid said:


> Other halves are cheap there too....



I know, but I really don't want to lose half, of what is an already a diminished pot, also been with her for 44 years would be sad not to get 50.lol
Also we help one of the kids out, but if Billy brings in what he is suggesting, I think I will be planting the seed of either a Thai or Bali condo.
It will be the only way, to enjoy a stress free retirement, every election brings about another set of scenarios.
First it was tax the multi million dollar homes, unless they sell them and put it in super. That has gone quiet, how well would that have turned out? Not well at all.

Then it was, we need to tax super incomes above $100,000, I thought that sounds reasonable.

Now it is, we will take 30% of your super income, no matter what it is, that is really taking the pizz.
But what takes the cake, is everyone says that's o.k, well that just tells me no one is thinking it through.


----------



## Smurf1976 (5 January 2019)

Darc Knight said:


> Which raises a good question: why are our Governments incompetent and how do we facilitate better ones?



Just my opinion as someone who's worked for things owned by government and in the public service as such but the problem is really quite simple.

Elect candidates with a diverse range of "real world" work backgrounds.

In short there are far too many lawyers and unionists and nowhere near enough people with practical professional, trades, business or other backgrounds which bring diversity.

Suppose that you've got 100 people in the room. 49 are lawyers. 49 are former unionists. The other two are an airline pilot and a topless dancer.

In practice the pilot will likely be the most useful person in that room due to the way they're trained to think and the stripper runs second since they'll have a fair bit of "real" life experience and will give it a decent shot. In contrast the lawyers and unionists will almost certainly succumb to group think by virtue of sheer numbers meaning that not one of them is actually thinking critically.

I have nothing against lawyers or unionists by the way and I similarly wouldn't want the parliament stacked full of engineers, plumbers, truck drivers or anyone else since the same problem would arise. Point is we need diversity above all else, that we have that diversity being far more important than the actual background of anyone's local MP.


----------



## SirRumpole (5 January 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> I have nothing against lawyers or unionists by the way and I similarly wouldn't want the parliament stacked full of engineers, plumbers, truck drivers or anyone else since the same problem would arise. Point is we need diversity above all else, that we have that diversity being far more important than the actual background of anyone's local MP.




I don't see a lot of scientists in Parliament, both sides seem to shun them.

I would have hoped that their rational thinking abilities would be very useful  in government.

Angela Merkel seems to have done OK.


----------



## Darc Knight (5 January 2019)

Kevin Rudd thinks Rupert may give up trying to have the Liberals re-elected and may try to cury favour with Labor:

_"So watch out for the the subtle tacking to port on the part of various of Murdoch’s mastheads as they begin to send out feelers to Shorten et al. Labor should be wary of quiet approaches from Lachlan Murdoch or his minions. Nor should Labor be seduced by a more generous sprinkling of positive news stories, or negative ones about the Coalition. That’s how Murdoch plays the game."

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/op...itical-grip-on-democracy-20190104-p50pkw.html
_


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## sptrawler (6 January 2019)

Labor don't need Murdoch, they get enough flag waving and chorus Line singing from the Age and SMH, any more proactive Labor chanting, would be nauseous. Lol


----------



## Smurf1976 (6 January 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Labor don't need Murdoch, they get enough flag waving and chorus Line singing from the Age and SMH, any more proactive Labor chanting, would be nauseous. Lol



I was going to post a chant but then I realised I had no idea what they'd actually be chanting?

Does it involve marching down the street waving Eureka flags and repeated use of the words "What do we want?" followed by the answer and a second question "When do we want it?" followed by "Now"?

Just a random guess as to what the chanting may involve.


----------



## Skate (6 January 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> I was going to post a chant but then I realised I had no idea what they'd actually be chanting?
> 
> Does it involve marching down the street waving Eureka flags and repeated use of the words *"What do we want?"* followed by the answer and a second question *"When do we want it?"* followed by "Now"?
> 
> Just a random guess as to what the chanting may involve.




*Chanting*
I always find it strange that the guy with the megaphone never knows the answer & constantly seeks it from others.

I say "if the guy with the megaphone doesn't know the answer - give the megaphone to someone who does"

Skate.


----------



## IFocus (6 January 2019)

Unfortunately Labor needs Murdoch as every Australian government, other wise the BS noise  just takes up everyone's time and nothing happens.


----------



## wayneL (6 January 2019)

Murdoch and other corporatists have always plays both sides. In fact I think he/they have sand castle syndrome.

Build it up just to be able to knock it down,  rinse, switch sides, repeat.


----------



## SirRumpole (6 January 2019)

wayneL said:


> Murdoch and other corporatists have always plays both sides. In fact I think he/they have sand castle syndrome.
> 
> Build it up just to be able to knock it down,  rinse, switch sides, repeat.





Murdoch will support

a. whichever Party is best for his business,

and if that doesn't work,

b. whichever Party is most likely to win the next election so that he can pretend that he won the election     for them and get something in return.


----------



## Humid (6 January 2019)

Which of the 56 states do you reckon will give Murdoch a funeral


----------



## Darc Knight (7 January 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Labor don't need Murdoch, they get enough flag waving and chorus Line singing from the Age and SMH, any more proactive Labor chanting, would be nauseous. Lol




Next time you're lunching with Rupert and Jerry can you have a quiet word with him please. Just let him know he's already looking like Mussolini as it is


----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2019)

Darc Knight said:


> Next time you're lunching with Rupert and Jerry can you have a quiet word with him please. Just let him know he's already looking like Mussolini as it is



Didn't you Mum and Dad tell you, if you don't have something nice to say about a person, say nothing, or maybe you know Murdoch personally.lol


----------



## Darc Knight (7 January 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Didn't you Mum and Dad tell you, if you don't have something nice to say about a person, say nothing, or maybe you know Murdoch personally.lol




I just assumed he woulda taken that as a compliment


----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2019)

If he reads ASF, you might find out.lol


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## Darc Knight (7 January 2019)

sptrawler said:


> If he reads ASF, you might find out.lol




Nah, he'd prolly pay some poor Sod 50 cents an hour to do it for him, then claim it back as a tax deduction.


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## basilio (26 January 2019)

Not a good look for the Sco Mo gov.
* Indigenous affairs minister Nigel Scullion to quit politics at next election *
Move follows last week’s shock resignation of Kelly O’Dwyer and Friday’s announcement by Michael Keenan

Calla Wahlquist

 @callapilla 
Sat 26 Jan 2019 10.28 AEDT   Last modified on Sat 26 Jan 2019 10.59 AEDT

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Nigel Scullion has been a cabinet minister and the minister for Indigenous affairs since 2013. Photograph: Mick Tsikas/AAP
The Indigenous affairs minister, Nigel Scullion, has announced that he will not recontest the next election, joining frontbenchers Michael Keenan and Kelly O’Dwyer in the list of high profile resignations from the Morrison government.

Scullion announced his decision on Australia Day, while the prime minister, Scott Morrison, was addressing the national citizenship ceremony in Canberra.
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...el-scullion-to-quit-politics-at-next-election


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## sptrawler (26 January 2019)

basilio said:


> Not a good look for the Sco Mo gov.
> * Indigenous affairs minister Nigel Scullion to quit politics at next election *
> Move follows last week’s shock resignation of Kelly O’Dwyer and Friday’s announcement by Michael Keenan
> 
> ...



I wonder if there is a benefit in resigning, before you get voted out?


----------



## Tink (26 January 2019)




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## PZ99 (26 January 2019)

sptrawler said:


> I wonder if there is a benefit in resigning, before you get voted out?



It would be a good career move for life beyond politics.


----------



## sptrawler (26 January 2019)

PZ99 said:


> It would be a good career move for life beyond politics.



good point.


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## Humid (27 January 2019)

Rats and sinking ships spring to mind


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## sptrawler (27 January 2019)

Humid said:


> Rats and sinking ships spring to mind



Possibly, but why not wait untill after the election? It could be to save money, from not having to have a by election, but saving money has ever been a high priority for politicians in the past. 
It doesn't really matter, I was just wondering if there was an advantage.


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## Humid (27 January 2019)

Might be like construction 
You get out early before everyone is looking for a gig


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## basilio (27 January 2019)

Big news is the announcement of a small l Liberal running as independent candidate against  Tony Abbott. Promises some real fireworks.

* Zali Steggall to challenge Tony Abbott for Warringah seat *
Olympics ski champion turned barrister has support of several grassroots groups in her bid to oust the ex-prime minister
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...l-to-challenge-tony-abbott-warringah-nsw-seat

*Underestimate Tony Abbott at your peril - the man knows how to win*
https://www.canberratimes.com.au/po...the-man-knows-how-to-win-20190126-p50tt7.html


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## sptrawler (27 January 2019)

basilio said:


> Big news is the announcement of a small l Liberal running as independent candidate against  Tony Abbott. Promises some real fireworks.
> 
> * Zali Steggall to challenge Tony Abbott for Warringah seat *
> Olympics ski champion turned barrister has support of several grassroots groups in her bid to oust the ex-prime minister
> ...



Good on her, at least she isn't joining a Party to get a leg up, I'd vote for her.


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## basilio (30 January 2019)

Another big challenge to the  current Liberal party. Former Liberal party big wig Oliver Yates is standing  in Kooyong against Josh Frydenburg as an Independent Liberal. (This was the area that went Labour in the last State election.)
Absolutely hammered them in this announcement.

* The Liberal party has lost the plot – that’s why I’m running as an independent *
Oliver Yates
The environment in Canberra within the Liberal party is toxic. We have to change the way politics is done in Australia

• Oliver Yates: It’s time to ‘take out’ environment ministers who fail on climate

 
 @_Oliver_Yates 
Wed 30 Jan 2019 04.00 AEDT   Last modified on Wed 30 Jan 2019 10.15 AEDT

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‘If this is the Liberal party, then it has no place for me. I can’t quite explain what has happened but the Liberal party’s culture is sick.’ Photograph: Thomas S Dalhoff
“Why?” is the question I’ve had from friends and family when I’ve told them I’m running for the seat of Kooyong in the next federal election.

It’s a good question but perhaps not the right one. Politics in Australia, as it currently operates, isn’t something immediately appealing to anyone in their right mind. I’ve had a successful business career; my kids are all but grown-up.

But the time has come when I’m compelled to act as the situation we face is so dire, and the quality of the actors so poor, and the unwillingness of the Liberal party to reform is so evident that the right question is “how can you just sit there and not stand?”






*  It's time to 'take out' environment ministers who fail on climate, says Oliver Yates  *
Read more
We have to change the way politics is done in Australia so we can address climate change, restore political integrity and ensure business operates within society’s expectations and not as an entity unto itself.

Unfortunately, the current Liberal party has lost the plot. Its failure to deal with these issues threatens to sell out the future of all Australians. Without environmental and public assets and public confidence in our politics we’re unable to deal with a warming climate, a growing and ageing population and an unequal economy.

Growing up, I learned what it takes to be elected to parliament, door-knocking Doveton to Kooweerup for my father, the Liberal member for Holt, the late Bill Yates.

But despite being a member for most of my life, I am done with this form of the Liberal party. Seeing the now prime minister, Scott Morrison, wave around a lump of coal in parliament, and witnessing a follow-up act with brown coal at a Victorian fundraiser made me angry. Environmentally it’s like waving asbestos.

Scott Morrison brings a chunk of coal into parliament
If this is the Liberal party, then it has no place for me. I can’t quite explain what has happened but the Liberal party’s culture is sick. Ten years of negative policy actions have created a black hole around the leadership, surrounding them in impenetrable darkness. They’ve ignored or denied claims of bullying, which is evident to all. Now there’s a flood of cabinet ministers rushing for the backdoor. Family reasons aside, the environment in Canberra within the Liberal party is toxic.

We need real people with real experience to sit in Canberra

Faced with this, and when it is made clear that the “broad church” in Kooyong won’t extend to other Liberals with environmental concerns, the time comes to offer an alternative way so that the people of Kooyong can have a voice and be represented in Canberra.

The majority of them want action on climate, fair treatment
for asylum seekers, businesses to consider people and the environment, and politicians to act with integrity. Currently they feel let down.

The Liberal government’s blindness to the dangers of climate change is sickening. It’s about 28 years since the first international report called on governments to act to reduce carbon emission as a known threat to the environment. Since then, global emissions have risen more than 60%. The current government is delaying action, and encouraging global inaction.

We can’t afford that. How can Liberals not see this?

The Liberal party put the interests of the coal and fossil fuel industry ahead of just about every other industry, and source of employment, in Australia.

Our beautiful reefs, right through to our southern wilderness, are being destroyed as you read this. Our rivers and everything that relies on them are dying. Communities are facing crippling droughts and fires. Meanwhile, the government continue to peddle dangerous nonsense that we need new coal-fired power stations, or talking up Adani.

Having run the Clean Energy Finance Corporation, and as an investor in renewable projects, I understand the jobs, economic benefits and new industries that can emerge while we reduce pollution. I can’t understand why the Liberal party, which prides itself on its economic credentials, fails to see the economic opportunities.

The treasurer Josh Frydenberg’s recent speech to the Sydney Institute should mark another point of intense disappointment. It highlights how seriously the Liberal party has lost its way. Now its leadership can’t even make moral sense of its own values and belief.

Frydenberg said: “Fairness is achieved through equality of opportunity, not equality of outcomes”, and “intergenerational equity requires fiscal discipline as the next generation should not have to pick up the tab for the last”
If he seriously believes current Liberal policies reflect these two values, then he is totally deluded.

The government’s policies are preventing individuals having “equality of opportunity”. Inequality of wealth is growing. Wealth has a direct relationship with the opportunities an individual has from birth. The outcome will not be fair if government policies fail to address the massive financial inequality individuals face.

Policies that constantly increase the benefits of those who can afford to pay versus those less well off layer this government’s thinking. Poor suburbs have poor schools, hospitals and services in contrast to wealthy suburbs. I don’t want an American-style split society. Menzies did not suggest it, and it grinds against the identity I thought we shared as Australians, which had pride in egalitarianism and mateship.

Secondly, intergenerational equity applies to the climate and our natural resources not just the budget. Those retiring today are leaving oceans filled with plastic, mines that have not been rehabilitated, soil depleted, ecosystems destroyed and our climate in ruins. The tab is being left to the next generation without care or regard. How a Liberal government cannot see the scale of this is breathtaking.

We must return integrity to politics. We need real people with real experience to sit in Canberra. We can’t afford another generation of party hacks who believe politics is a game of numbers, slogans and spin.

The public have lost trust in their political leaders. We need an integrity commission, proper political donations reforms and a bill of rights that enshrines what it means to be Australian. And we need to stop ignoring the concerns of Australia’s first people before we can become a mature country.


We need a strong business sector that works with society. Currently there are deep cultural problems. Corporations and CEOs are there to act in the collective interests of people. They cannot continue to claim that their only job is to maximise profits. They need to understand that they must act in the same way we expect an individual to act as part of a heathy society that protects and cares for each other.

Government and business love free trade. But it doesn’t always benefit the people. My first public run-in with the Howard government was over the US-Australian free-trade agreement. The PM’s office called my employer to suggest it was not in my employers’ best interest that I continue to point out the deficiencies of the agreement.

It triggered my disbelief in our politicians, and highlighted our lack of individual rights to speak and debate views, as all citizens must do, if they care about their country. Our trade agreements need to be carefully considered to ensure the benefit for our economy and society. We shouldn’t be signing up to deals that could harm Australia’s economic interests or impose major social costs. I will fight to bring greater transparency to the negotiation of international trade deals and to ensure that the economic and social merits of all future deals are independently assessed by the Productivity Commission before the parliament is asked to vote on them.

Having said all that, winning this seat will not be easy. But then again, you never know – moderate Liberal, Greens and Labor electors might welcome the chance to have a member in Canberra that reports to them rather than someone who represents a party most of us cannot understand.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...e-plot-thats-why-im-running-as-an-independent


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## sptrawler (30 January 2019)

As happened at the end of the last Labor tenure, a lot of people see the opportunity, in riding the wave of discontentment. IMO


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## wayneL (30 January 2019)

Perhaps the Laberal Party in in its death throes. It deserves to die for selling its soul to the virtue signallers,  panic merchants and panderers. 

Die!!!!!!

Perhaps here is the accidental conception of a new, moderate,  center right party.

Oz conservatives and PHON will never capture the middle ground where most Ozzies are,  and the Liberals are irretrievably polluted by PC BS and unjustified moral panic,  combined with tiny cajones.

Labor only exist via a vacuum, bereft of courage on the center/near right.


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## sptrawler (30 January 2019)

wayneL said:


> Labor only exist via a vacuum, bereft of courage on the center/near right.



I wouldn't go as far as to say that, but I think Labor has managed to capture the 'cosmopolitan, yuppie, feel good group.
The reality is they are all centered around the two major Cities, which happens to be where the two major media outlets are centered also, therefore by association the 'word' is spread and shared.

IMO it has been a very clever operation, base everything on ideology and high brow theory, then let the intellectuals run with it, the only thing that ends up breaking the chain is when reality hits.

As it always does, in my experience.


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## sptrawler (30 January 2019)

I heard a very apt phrase today:
The opinion polls are bouncing between, the coalitions entrenched unpopularity, and Bill Shortens unlikeability.
I thought, that sums things up pretty well.


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## basilio (30 January 2019)

It would be interesting to see what odds are being offered about Oliver Yates chance  of winning Kooyong. The next polling of that seat will be fascinating.

I believe Oliver will win a ton of support from Liberals, Labour and the Greens. It  is really about exposing the poison of the CC denialists in the LNCP and finding a way to make the conservative parties create a bi-partisan policy on dealing with CC.
https://www.themonthly.com.au/today/paddy-manning/2018/09/2018/1539060033/liberals-climate


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## sptrawler (2 February 2019)

Morrison must be doing something right, the SMH are really cranking up the negative press, on their website.lol


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## Humid (4 February 2019)

https://www.news.com.au/technology/...e/news-story/2dfe1d5bf33277089b14fbdce12600d8

This moron was the best the Libs could come up with for a PM lol


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## basilio (7 February 2019)

You have to hand it to the Libs. When it comes to full on deception, self interest, protecting their friends and blowing their electoral brains out they are *Best in Show.*

Check out this totally brilliant summary of how Tim Wilson sets up a Parliamentary inquiry into the Labour plan to abolish refundable franking credits. The main submission comes from a stooge group that turns out to be Liberal party hacks and the trucking industry. The main supporters are a company he is both related to and has invested in. Yep. Totally deceitful, self serving and perfect at costing the Libs another 1% of the voters in the coming election.

*'Retiree group' lobbying against Labor unmasked as Liberal Party and trucking industry operation*
Michael Koziol7 February 2019 — 7:18am

Send via Email
A lobby group masquerading as a grassroots organisation of disgruntled retirees is actually a network of professional lobbyists involved in the trucking industry and the Liberal Party, with a history of campaigning against Labor government policies.

Defenders of Self-Funded Retirees says it was formed by "hard-working Australians who reject Labor's proposal to impose double taxation and to demonise us". However, the association is managed by Liberal Party member and ACT Senate candidate Robert Gunning, along with a number of Mr Gunning's friends from the trucking lobby.
https://www.canberratimes.com.au/po...cking-industry-operation-20190205-p50vvo.html


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## SirRumpole (7 February 2019)

basilio said:


> ‘If this is the Liberal party, then it has no place for me. I can’t quite explain what has happened but *the Liberal party’s culture is sick.*’




Great advertising line for Labor.


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## sptrawler (7 February 2019)

basilio said:


> You have to hand it to the Libs. When it comes to full on deception, self interest, protecting their friends and blowing their electoral brains out they are *Best in Show.*
> 
> Check out this totally brilliant summary of how Tim Wilson sets up a Parliamentary inquiry into the Labour plan to abolish refundable franking credits. The main submission comes from a stooge group that turns out to be Liberal party hacks and the trucking industry. The main supporters are a company he is both related to and has invested in. Yep. Totally deceitful, self serving and perfect at costing the Libs another 1% of the voters in the coming election.
> 
> ...




And this somehow, is different from unions planting members, in rallies and demonstrations.
Really?


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## SirRumpole (7 February 2019)

sptrawler said:


> And this somehow, is different from unions planting members, in rallies and demonstrations.
> Really?




No one is pure in politics.

Evils on all sides need to be exposed.

The sickening thing is the hypocrisy of both sides trying to pretend that they are lilywhite while the others are jet black.


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## sptrawler (7 February 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> No one is pure in politics.
> 
> .




They are both pure politics Rumpy, that is the problem with politics ATM, it has become about the politicians future not Australia's future. IMO


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## Humid (7 February 2019)

sptrawler said:


> And this somehow, is different from unions planting members, in rallies and demonstrations.
> Really?




A taxpayer funded committee holding an inquiry into potential opposition policy is the same
Really?


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## sptrawler (7 February 2019)

Humid said:


> A taxpayer funded committee holding an inquiry into potential opposition policy is the same
> Really?



I didn't think the committee was actually involved in the rally.


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## Humid (7 February 2019)

sptrawler said:


> I didn't think the committee was actually involved in the rally.




Well one isn’t taxpayer funded


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## sptrawler (7 February 2019)

Humid said:


> Well one isn’t taxpayer funded



Well if they weren't there, it wouldn't matter who paid for them.


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## basilio (7 February 2019)

sptrawler said:


> And this somehow, is different from unions planting members, in rallies and demonstrations.
> Really?




Totally different SP.  Public rallies and demonstrations are just that - public. When they are campaigning for what are perceived  as workers interest then  unions are clearly part of that cause. Or they should be.

The  Parliamentary inquiry set up by Tim Wilson is theoretically supposed to be an investigation into a proposed Labour Party initiative. When the main submissions turn out to be from groups that lie about who they are, and that the the Chair of the committee has a financial interest in it's just wrong. 

Conflict of interest anyone ?


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## basilio (7 February 2019)

* Geoff Wilson told investors Labor's franking credits policy easy to avoid *
Fund manager who said retirees’ livelihoods would be devastated told his own investors they could simply restructure their affairs

 
 @Paul_Karp 
Thu 7 Feb 2019 08.20 AEDT   Last modified on Thu 7 Feb 2019 12.42 AEDT

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Labor has called for the Liberal MP Tim Wilson to be sacked after revelations Geoff Wilson asked him to set economic committee dates to align with his lobbying efforts. Photograph: Mike Bowers/The Guardian
The fund manager who asked Tim Wilson to coordinate parliamentary committee hearings with his lobbying work once boasted to investors that the impost of Labor’s franking credit policy is trivially easy to avoid.

Geoff Wilson – the chairman of Wilson Asset Management and a distant relative of Tim Wilson – when talking to concerned retirees claimed the reform would devastate their livelihoods but told his own investors that Labor’s revenue claims were “ludicrous” because they could simply restructure their affairs.

Labor has called for Tim Wilson to be sacked as chair of the house economics committee after revelations that Geoff Wilson asked the Liberal MP to set committee dates to align with meetings of shareholders who the fund manager then encouraged to attend and protest.

Tim Wilson has failed to declare at committee hearings that he has a shareholding in two funds managed by Wilson Asset Management through Wilson-Bolger Superannuation Pty Ltd, although he did declare it in his pecuniary interest register.

He has also refused to rule out that Geoff Wilson has contributed funding for the stoptheretirementtax.com website, authorised by the Liberal MP, which encourages people to sign a petition and make a form submission to his own inquiry.
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-labors-franking-credits-policy-easy-to-avoid


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## sptrawler (7 February 2019)

basilio said:


> Totally different SP.  Public rallies and demonstrations are just that - public. When they are campaigning for what are perceived  as workers interest then  unions are clearly part of that cause. Or they should be.
> 
> The  Parliamentary inquiry set up by Tim Wilson is theoretically supposed to be an investigation into a proposed Labour Party initiative. When the main submissions turn out to be from groups that lie about who they are, and that the the Chair of the committee has a financial interest in it's just wrong.
> 
> Conflict of interest anyone ?



The Gillard Government carbon tax rallies?


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## Humid (7 February 2019)

sptrawler said:


> The Gillard Government carbon tax rallies?




Taxpayer funded?


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## sptrawler (7 February 2019)

Humid said:


> Taxpayer funded?



The committee wasn't at the rally.


----------



## sptrawler (7 February 2019)

basilio said:


> * Geoff Wilson told investors Labor's franking credits policy easy to avoid *
> Fund manager who said retirees’ livelihoods would be devastated told his own investors they could simply restructure their affairs



To higher risk products?

This is certainly morphing from an investment forum, to a political one.


----------



## Humid (7 February 2019)

That’s because someone is messing with Homers nest egg....


----------



## HelloU (7 February 2019)

Humid said:


> A taxpayer funded committee holding an inquiry into potential opposition policy is the same
> Really?



respectfully sorta (and actually specifically what the standing committee was established for)

that is the whole point of the committees (the by-product being all the extra allowances and expense claims for committee members - sorta what you do to get extra money when your day job is not so busy) .....

Deputy chair is some labor dude
adam bandt is in there with a heap of others 

i do not see the greens peeps or labor peeps (or liberals) handing back any of the extra money they get for this..... year of the pig


----------



## Humid (7 February 2019)

HelloU said:


> respectfully sorta (and actually specifically what the standing committee was established for)
> 
> that is the whole point of the committees (the by-product being all the extra allowances and expense claims for committee members - sorta what you do to get extra money when your day job is not so busy) .....
> 
> ...




On potential opposition policy?


----------



## basilio (7 February 2019)

More flack coming on the fake grass roots campaign against Labours proposed dividend  imputation policy changes.

*Grassroots' retirees group with Liberal links may have breached law *
Electoral commission says Defenders of Self Funded Retirees may not have properly disclosed sources of ads

The Australian electoral commission says a Liberal-linked “grassroots” retirees group campaigning against Labor’s franking credits policy appears to have breached electoral laws by failing to properly disclose the sources of paid advertising.

Guardian Australia revealed on Thursday morning that the Liberal candidate Robert Gunning has helped to orchestrate the Defenders of Self Funded Retirees, a group representing itself as a community-led retiree movement against the Labor policy.

The group has paid for targeted Facebook ads and has built a professional campaign website, neither of which include authorisations telling voters who is paying for the advertising. Its links to the Liberal party are not disclosed in any of its campaign material.

Labor has written to the Australian electoral commission, formally requesting they investigate the revelations. Authorisations of political advertising are designed to make their creators accountable, transparent, and traceable. Failure to authorise can result in fines of up to $25,200 for individuals and $126,000 for a body corporate.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...roup-with-liberal-links-may-have-breached-law


----------



## Zaxon (7 February 2019)

> At a shareholder presentation in November, Geoff Wilson said that “all you’ve got to do is change from a company structure to a trust structure” to avoid the impact of Labor’s policy, which scraps the cash refunds for excess imputation credits claimed by retirees and self-managed superannuation funds.
> 
> Geoff Wilson explained that entities managed by Wilson Asset Management could become trusts that wouldn’t pay two-thirds of dividends in tax, meaning they could pay out a higher actual dividend but it “wouldn’t be fully franked”.




A trust structure passes on all the franking credits to the beneficiaries, as if they hold the shares in their own name. And unless you're on welfare or in industry super, you don't get those franking credits converted back to cash under Labor's proposed legislation.

I'm not seeing how this helps.


----------



## sptrawler (7 February 2019)

basilio said:


> More flack coming on the fake grass roots campaign against Labours proposed dividend  imputation policy changes.




I can hear you salivating from here Bas, those horrid self funded investors.

I'm just looking forward to the day, when I become a highly regarded and well respected, person on the age pension.
Instead  of being one of those dirty, disgusting, self funded losers, that saved their money.


----------



## HelloU (7 February 2019)

Humid said:


> On potential opposition policy?



yep
virtually anything can be referred to one of the standing committees ...... this just happened to land in the lap of old mate cos he is the chair of the economics/finance committee - i think anyway. (so could have been anyone really at point in time). 
this was referred by the PM (prolly do not need to say why ...)
so it gets looked at by the committee ...... who can turn it into a freak show.  

they get a heap of $$$ for being involved in the committees ..... and, like i said, makes me wonder what they are paid to do in their day jobs. 
see ya.


----------



## Darc Knight (7 February 2019)

basilio said:


> * Geoff Wilson told investors Labor's franking credits policy easy to avoid *
> Fund manager who said retirees’ livelihoods would be devastated told his own investors they could simply restructure their affairs
> 
> 
> ...




Geoff Wilson of Wilson Asset Management was the same person who was all over the Media banging on about how Labor would throw Australia into Recession. Wilson Asset Management were also banging on about how we are entering into a Bear Market. One poster here on ASF commented that it smelled of market manipulation.


----------



## basilio (7 February 2019)

sptrawler said:


> I can hear you salivating from here Bas, those horrid self funded investors.
> 
> I'm just looking forward to the day, when I become a highly regarded and well respected, person on the age pension.
> Instead  of being one of those dirty, disgusting, self funded losers, that saved their money.




The issue here SP is* not *the proposed changes to the dividend imputation policy.
It's the fact that a Liberal Party politician and small group of businessmen started up a fake grass roots campaign to make it look as if "Hard working Aussies Retirees" were mounting this campaign.
The reason we have these electoral laws is to try and keep politicians and business people honest when they are running political campaigns to serve their interests - *but pretend they are other people.

----------------------------------------------------------------*
With regard to the proposed changes in dividend imputation. As I see it the Liberal Party introduced the idea of flow through of imputation credits to give a leg up to their wealthy followers. (July  1st 2000 ) Initially these refunds were relatively modest but financial advisors and their clients quickly worked out how profitable this could be when properly structured. In 2006 these dividends became even more profitable to retirees who could get tax free income from their super courtesy of Peter Costello.

By 2016 this little lurk was costing the budget $5.6b a year - and growing fast. Labour has decided that a $5b tax lurk that is overwhelmingly directed to the wealthiest group of our community makes it so much harder to balance the budget and pay for policies it believes are more even handed.

There was an excellent analysis in the AFR magazine as well as the ABC website. Both pointed out just what sort of a gravy train this deal has been for the wealthiest people in our community who are multi millionaires but can construct a tax return with minimal taxable income.

*Labor's dividend tax change: Good policy, shame about the politics*
https://www.afr.com/news/policy/tax...licy-shame-about-the-politics-20180315-h0xj3c

*Will Labor's dividend imputation policy overwhelmingly affect the low paid?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-30/fact-check-labors-dividend-imputation-policy/10626204
*


----------



## bellenuit (7 February 2019)

Zaxon said:


> A trust structure passes on all the franking credits to the beneficiaries, as if they hold the shares in their own name. And unless you're on welfare or in industry super, you don't get those franking credits converted back to cash under Labor's proposed legislation.




Aren't trusts also in Shorten's cross-hairs? I think he is planning a 30% tax on all distributions that is then rebated based on the recipient's marginal tax, much like franking credits. I have no idea how distributed franking credits would work in this scheme.


----------



## Zaxon (7 February 2019)

bellenuit said:


> Aren't trusts also in Shorten's cross-hairs? I think he is planning a 30% tax on all distributions that is then rebated based on the recipient's marginal tax, much like franking credits. I have no idea how distributed franking credits would work in this scheme.




Yes they are! (https://www.afr.com/news/politics/l...y-trust-distributions-at-30pc-20170730-gxlk7g)

His plan is for distributions on trusts to be taxed at a minimum of 30%, regardless of the beneficiaries tax bracket.  So if your dividend isn't even franked and you're a low income earner, sorry: you're now paying 30% of that in tax.  This may apply to capital gains as well.

This means that anyone who's tax bracket is <30% would no longer be able to use a trust. Instead, you'd have to hold assets in your own name.  This is on top of not getting your franking credits back, regardless of whether using a trust or not.


----------



## qldfrog (7 February 2019)

Which will then increzse the use of companies.dum and dummer..
A unique tax rate would sort it out but that is heresy for the left
In anycase labour is welcome to get hit by the coming recession
They will have plenty of excuse later on..
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/markets-keep-eye-lucky-country-213324618.html


----------



## bellenuit (7 February 2019)

Zaxon said:


> This means that anyone who's tax bracket is <30% would no longer be able to use a trust. Instead, you'd have to hold assets in your own name.




Hopefully they will allow a grace period to move your assets out of the trust and into your own name.


----------



## HelloU (8 February 2019)

annual numbers:

$5B           franking refunds

$32B          defence spend

$175B        welfare


----------



## qldfrog (8 February 2019)

HelloU said:


> annual numbers:
> 
> $5B           franking refunds
> 
> ...



Leant something interesting yesterday, the french nuclear strike ability lost them around 5 billions a year.
To put this into perspective with nbn cost currently at 51 billions or the figure above, and french army is not renowned for being a penny pincher.
This country has had/burnt too much money for too long and is completely disconnected with reality
Bill and Scot should learn what a dollar means..but no hope there


----------



## basilio (8 February 2019)

A bit more background on Tim Wilson and his ways of doing things.
Not a good look.

*Why Tim Wilson must resign*
https://www.canberratimes.com.au/national/why-tim-wilson-must-resign-20190207-p50wcc.html


----------



## explod (12 February 2019)

Well they lost a Bill before the house today, first time in 80 years so i'd say a sudden election could be called if numbers against them hold.


----------



## Knobby22 (12 February 2019)

explod said:


> Well they lost a Bill before the house today, first time in 80 years so i'd say a sudden election could be called if numbers against them hold.



NSW election in progress.
Also most of the crossbenchers said they wouldn't but who knows?


----------



## explod (12 February 2019)

*Coalition's hold on power under threat after it loses asylum seeker vote in Parliament*
By political reporter Brett Worthington
Updated 4 minutes ago






	

		
			
		

		
	
PHOTO: Labor secured the support of most of the crossbench to win the Lower House vote 75 to 74. (ABC News: Nick Haggarty)
The future of the Coalition's hold on power is at risk with the Federal Government becoming the first to lose a vote on its own legislation in almost 80 years.

*Key points:*

Labor secured the support of most of the crossbench to allow doctors a greater say in refugee medical evacuations
Labor and the crossbench had forced a series of measures into a government migration bill
The solicitor-general had warned the proposal might be unconstitutional because it included spending measures


The majority of the crossbench and Labor joined forces in the House of Representatives to pass amendments to give doctors a greater say on refugee medical evacuations.

The amendments were agreed to by the Senate late last year, after Labor and the crossbench forced a series of measures into a government migration bill.

Labor secured the support of most of the crossbench to win the Lower House vote 75 to 74 on the first sitting day for 2019.

Attorney-General Christian Porter presented legal advice from solicitor-general Stephen Donaghue at the last minute, suggesting the amendments agreed to by the Senate would be unconstitutional.

But Mr Donaghue also pointed out there was case law suggesting the High Court was generally reluctant to intervene in these matters, because it related to sections of the Constitution that gave power to the Parliament to conduct its own affairs.


----------



## bellenuit (12 February 2019)

explod said:


> Well they lost a Bill before the house today, first time in 80 years so i'd say a sudden election could be called if numbers against them hold.




No. I think they will wait and see if the boats start coming again. If yes they will call an election, otherwise they will hold out a bit longer.


----------



## Darc Knight (12 February 2019)

For those of you against ScoMo, just look at the alternative: Dutton or Abbott. 

Case dismissed!


----------



## sptrawler (12 February 2019)

bellenuit said:


> No. I think they will wait and see if the boats start coming again. If yes they will call an election, otherwise they will hold out a bit longer.



Also as the housing prices keep falling, people will get nervous about Labors CGT and NG policies, making a bad situation worse.
The longer Morrison hangs on, the harder it will be for Bill. IMO


----------



## PZ99 (12 February 2019)

There's no way they'll call an election until they've released that monster budget


----------



## drsmith (15 February 2019)

Interesting week.

I can only assume Bill Shorten is papering over divisions within his own party on border security to take on the government and PM ScoMo on in this policy area. It doesn't make sense otherwise when Labor, on published polling, is cruising towards an easy victory in the upcoming election.


----------



## sptrawler (15 February 2019)

drsmith said:


> Interesting week.
> 
> I can only assume Bill Shorten is papering over divisions within his own party on border security to take on the government and PM ScoMo on in this policy area. It doesn't make sense otherwise when Labor, on published polling, is cruising towards an easy victory in the upcoming election.



Good to see you back Doc


----------



## wayneL (18 February 2019)

Hmmm,  I'm no fan of this government, but I will erect an alter to ScoMo et al,  if they can keep the vandals out.


----------



## explod (18 February 2019)

wayneL said:


> Hmmm,  I'm no fan of this government, but I will erect an alter to ScoMo et al,  if they can keep the vandals out.





Who are the vandals ?


----------



## sptrawler (18 February 2019)

The boost in the polls, will just show most are looking for any reason, to not vote for Bill. IMO


----------



## wayneL (18 February 2019)

explod said:


> Who are the vandals ?



Are you asking in historical,  figurative,  or allegorical sense?


----------



## Humid (18 February 2019)

Sky News lol


----------



## basilio (18 February 2019)

Good to see Bill Shorten pay out on the lies and BS of this terminal government.

*On the medical evacuation bill attacks, Bill Shorten had this to say:*

_I think what we need to do is call out shameless coalition lies about Labor policy. Anyone who tries to get on a boat, we will send them to regional processing, Manus Island or – what we have done is codify when people who need medical treatment, in our care, instead of having *Peter Dutton* in charge of health plans are individuals, we will have a listen to the doctors.


Ask yourself, when you are feeling sick do you go and see Peter Dutton or do you go and see the doctor.


We have the same policy, all we are doing is codify in it. *This is where the government are such a cheeky bunch of roosters.* They have brought 900 people here already from Manus and Nauru based on medical advice.


Yet somehow when Labor and *Kerryn Phelps* and the conscience of the Liberal Party proposed to codify and put some rules around it, the government said somehow that was a terrible idea. 


The government cannot have that both ways. I promise Australians we will fight the people smugglers. If we win the next election we will have the same navy and the same air force and the same Border Force, doing all the same things, but we’ll make sure we have strong borders without sacrificing the humanity of treating a few people who are in our duty of care.”
_
*Bill Shorten at a press conference calling on the government to announce a royal commission into disability abuse:*
_
This is a government that is out of control. You can all see it, why don’t we say what it is, it doesn’t matter if it is refusing to vote on a disability royal commission, because they are so puffed up with their own pride they don’t want to be seen to lose a vote, or, we have got the scandalous Paladin, where they can hand out contract, *Peter Dutton *yet again at the centre of an incompetency scandal, handing out $423 million and then saying it has nothing to do with me, it’s my department.

Well, hello, Peter, you are the minister.

If it isn’t your department, whose is it? And they carry on with this anti-union bias, yet they never have anything to say about how everything is going up in Australia except wages.

Australians can smell a desperate government at a hundred paces and this is a desperate government. They opposed Labor’s measures to protect small business. We want to give small business the power to take on big is this when they believe the business is behaving badly to small business, and we have done this by saying that small business shouldn’t face the litigation hurdle of paying the cost of big isn’t as in the court case. So essentially we are backing David in a David and Goliath struggle.

The government is splitting the Senate and split in the House. The problem in Australia is that we have a government to incompetent and too divided to run a government, but to desperate and too scared to taste the people.”

Dutton has said he did not have anything to do with the contract, and that it was done within the department, after going through a commonwealth procurement process.
_


----------



## explod (18 February 2019)

wayneL said:


> Are you asking in historical,  figurative,  or allegorical sense?



Those you want kept out.   Agree the past has gone but can return.


----------



## wayneL (18 February 2019)

explod said:


> Those you want kept out.   Agree the past has gone but can return.



Labor,  in a word. Wrong ideas,  at exactly the wrong time.


----------



## explod (18 February 2019)

wayneL said:


> Labor,  in a word. Wrong ideas,  at exactly the wrong time.



Do not disagree but the libs are not going to help the growing number of 60 year old women living alone in their cars because THERE ARE NO REAL JOBS.


----------



## sptrawler (19 February 2019)

explod said:


> THERE ARE NO REAL JOBS.




Very true explod, it is a huge problem in all the mature first world economies, outsourcing manufacturing leaves very little in the way of meaningfull work.
Australia is at a bigger disadvantage than most Countries, due to the distance to markets and the small size of the domestic market.
It will be difficult, even if new technologies open up new field of expertise, the world has become a small place.
So any new ideas are quickly picked up by companies, located nearer the markets, I really don't see how Australia can become a manufacturing Country again.
Hopefully Australia can forge out a niche in something.


----------



## Zaxon (19 February 2019)

sptrawler said:


> I really don't see how Australia can become a manufacturing Country again.




I know that in America, some manufacturing has gone back onshore. However, it only makes sense to do this where the factories are highly automated, and so the cost of labour doesn't really factor in.  That's a possible future for Australia too.  Possibly not what you had in mind though.



sptrawler said:


> Hopefully Australia can forge out a niche in something.




Our niches at the moment are mining, agriculture, and education. Another possible future could be in capturing solar/wind energy, since we have so much of it, converting it into hydrogen and shipping it to the world.


----------



## qldfrog (19 February 2019)

explod said:


> Our niches at the moment are mining, agriculture, and education. Another possible future could be in capturing solar/wind energy, since we have so much of it, converting it into hydrogen and shipping it to the world.



Wish you were right but:
Africa is nearer to market with sahara solar capacity for europe and china has same advantage, cooler weather and much capacity in its inner deserts, plus you need water so infrastructure for hydrogen generation
Not a chance of success in my opinion unless you leverage mining capacity.so export energy as aluminium, iron,copper but we can see already where our clear advantage went down the drain in trying to play that game.visit Chile or Argentina today and you have the Australia of tomorrow.not something i am looking forward to.


----------



## wayneL (19 February 2019)

explod said:


> Do not disagree but the libs are not going to help the growing number of 60 year old women living alone in their cars because THERE ARE NO REAL JOBS.



We are in agreeance there, pard. 

We had so many really great opportunities here,  just pi55ed away by dumb policy on both sides over decades.


----------



## qldfrog (19 February 2019)

This government, but other too..when you poke the giant panda, expect consequences


> China traders cut Australian coal imports. Chinese traders have cut Australian coal purchases after unexplained delays in Customs clearance, with sources saying only Australian cargoes are affected.,



The greens are celebrating


----------



## sptrawler (19 February 2019)

qldfrog said:


> This government, but other too..when you poke the giant panda, expect consequences
> 
> The greens are celebrating



The ducks could be lining up for Scomo IMO, talk about falling on your feet.lol


----------



## Logique (19 February 2019)

Gee, when you take a stand on a matter of principle, sometimes it works out for you 

Say what you like about the cross bench faux LUE (Liberal Until Elected) members, at least they're doing that much!

Still don't think the Coalition can win.


----------



## sptrawler (19 February 2019)

Logique said:


> Gee, when you take a stand on a matter of principle, sometimes it works out for you
> 
> Still don't think they'll win.



I'm with you on that, but once the effect of Labor's tax policies, get added to an already panicked housing market.
You never know, as WayneL said, Labor may have the wrong policies, at exactly the wrong time.
Also Morrison is no mumbling bumbling idiot, like Malcolm was, so Bill can't rely on disenchanted LNP voters either.IMO
Anyway whatever the outcome, it will at least be a bit more interesting, than it looked like it was going to be.


----------



## Zaxon (19 February 2019)

qldfrog said:


> Wish you were right but:
> Africa is nearer to market with sahara solar capacity




We're not unique when it comes to our renewable energy options, but exporting energy as hydrogen is something Australia has been specifically considering.


----------



## qldfrog (19 February 2019)

My son asked if it is sarcasm,, you mean Australia like the driest place with hardly any infrastructure inland competing against hydro power for example.i like dreamers, we need some but i also like realism
The worst is as a taxpayer we will probably be asked to build more white elephants until an Hindelberg style Drama put back engineering first.for people unaware hydrogen leaks like hell and is not anywhere near like LPG ..


----------



## sptrawler (19 February 2019)

qldfrog said:


> The worst is as a taxpayer we will probably be asked to build more white elephants until an Hindelberg style Drama put back engineering first.for people unaware hydrogen leaks like hell and is not anywhere near like LPG ..




Hi frog, I don't know how the hydrogen plan will go, but there are moves afoot to start large scale manufacturing of H2.
https://thewest.com.au/business/ene...renewable-energy-hub-in-pilbara-ng-b88983687z

Hopefully something comes of it.


----------



## basilio (19 February 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Very true explod, it is a huge problem in all the mature first world economies, outsourcing manufacturing leaves very little in the way of meaningfull work.
> Australia is at a bigger disadvantage than most Countries, due to the distance to markets and the small size of the domestic market.
> It will be difficult, even if new technologies open up new field of expertise, the world has become a small place.
> So any new ideas are quickly picked up by companies, located nearer the markets, I really don't see how Australia can become a manufacturing Country again.
> Hopefully Australia can forge out a niche in something.




Yeah. Ok. I agree

The next real problem ? The overwhelming impact of AI and industrial automation.
Have a look at the impact that autonomous cars will have on the transport industry.
Look at the use of AI to take over whole swathes of jobs in the white collar area.
Australia has lost it's manufacturing and textiles industry. Mining is very mechanised. Farming ditto. Where are our new employment opportunities coming ?


----------



## Humid (19 February 2019)

sptrawler said:


> The ducks could be lining up for Scomo IMO, talk about falling on your feet.lol




I think your kidding yourself Homer
When the unions and co start to ramp up people will remember these flogs


----------



## basilio (20 February 2019)

You have to wonder just how  deeply corrupt the Liberal Party has become.

Mathias Corman, The Finance Minister, directly booked family holiday airline tickets with the Chief Executive of Hello Travel (What!!?)  and then, somehow, was never charged the $2780 for the tickets.

*Somehow (?) *he never realised he was getting a free holiday. Somehow Hello Travel didn't check it's books to realise they were giving the  Minister and his family a free holiday.

And of course the fact that The Chief Executive of Hello Travel, Andrew Burnes,  is  a* big* Liberal Party donor/ Liberal Part Treasurer and* the Liberal Party just happened to award Hello Travel sole rights to organise all government travel  *... has nothing to do with this sorry story.

Truly this government stinks.
https://www.canberratimes.com.au/po...y-cormann-and-helloworld-20190220-p50z4q.html
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-20/mathias-cormann-overlooks-his-own-credit-card/10828226


----------



## SirRumpole (20 February 2019)

basilio said:


> Truly this government stinks.




They certainly have a insane sense of entitlement and privilege.

Malcolm Fraser sacked Michael McKellar for importing a colour tv and declaring it was black and white to avoid duties, but anyone can get away with free rides as long as they are not found out. 

Most politicians seem amoral these days, they just don't realise it from within the Canberra bubble.


----------



## Humid (21 February 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> They certainly have a insane sense of entitlement and privilege.
> 
> Malcolm Fraser sacked Michael McKellar for importing a colour tv and declaring it was black and white to avoid duties, but anyone can get away with free rides as long as they are not found out.
> 
> Most politicians seem amoral these days, they just don't realise it from within the Canberra bubble.




I don’t even think they care if their found out just add some spin....rinse repeat


----------



## qldfrog (21 February 2019)

The sad part Basilio is that i agree with you and if honest you will do the same with labour in power.
The left complains about the 1pc, the real issue is not the uber riches, they are so few and more often than do built their own wealth.but what is really costing the taxpayer and our society is the lines of parasites starting from council management level up to the top ,corrupt,sucking directly onto the taxpayer..and as a non left guy, i will add the illegal immigrants and others on centerlink for years..
There is a time when the tax payers have enough of the rort, corruption and abuses and there come Trump, brexit, yellow jackets...and if not acknowledged the next fascism.
Remember both Hitler and Mussolini were democratic popular movements..but let's blame the russians or China..actually not China..we have too much to loose


----------



## sptrawler (21 February 2019)

What makes me laugh is, all sides of politics are the same, yet they all shout down the other when they are caught as though it is an unusual event.


----------



## Junior (21 February 2019)

sptrawler said:


> What makes me laugh is, all sides of politics are the same, yet they all shout down the other when they are caught as though it is an unusual event.




This is a far lesser offence but I find it amusing, and a little sad.  

The "apology" and clearly dishonest explanation, is far worse than the photo!  https://www.pedestrian.tv/news/bridget-mckenzie-scrambled-egg/


----------



## basilio (21 February 2019)

*"Hockey owes me"*
Hello World CEO Andrew Burnes to staff General Manager as he set up a very impromptu meeting with Joe Hockey over upcoming tenders for Hello World.

This is getting stickier by the minute.
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...oalition-labor-morrison-shorten-politics-live


----------



## SirRumpole (21 February 2019)

basilio said:


> *"Hockey owes me"*
> Hello World CEO Andrew Burnes to staff General Manager as he set up a very impromptu meeting with Joe Hockey over upcoming tenders for Hello World.
> 
> This is getting stickier by the minute.
> https://www.theguardian.com/austral...oalition-labor-morrison-shorten-politics-live




We can now see why Morrison didn't want Parliament to go on any longer.


----------



## basilio (21 February 2019)

How "lucky" is the ScoMo government that Julie Bishop announces her retirement today ?  (perhaps not...)
It might overshadow the bombshell Penny Wong dropped on the Senate Committee today.


----------



## Knobby22 (21 February 2019)

Nothing to do with that Bas. It was the last day for her to retire as it was the last Parliament sitting.
I always thought Bishop was a good foreign minister and did her best for Australia.


----------



## basilio (21 February 2019)

Knobby22 said:


> Nothing to do with that Bas. It was the last day for her to retire as it was the last Parliament sitting.
> I always thought Bishop was a good foreign minister and did her best for Australia.




This was not expected Knobby. The last statements from Julie Bishop were that she would contest the next election.

I reckon  ScoMo has lost another 2% points with Julie gone. She had credibility and respect with all parts of the party, the Parliament and indeed the wider community.  She was great fund raiser. She was also one of the few Liberals left who could be seen as  centrist in a party that is most definitely lurched to the right.

It will be interesting to see what the next polls show, if the following questions are asked and what the responses might be.  I think the Labour Party would be the first to commission such a poll. They would probably leak the results to the Libs ..

Questions

1*) Did you know Julie Bishop the former Foreign Affairs Minister in the current Liberal/National Party government has decided to retire from politics and not stand in the coming general election.*  Yes/No

2) *What was your opinion of the job Julie Bishop did as Foreign Minister*.   Exc// Very Good/ Ok/ Rather Poor/Very poor/Don't know

*3) With regard to Julie Bishop not running for Parliament again. Does this action make you*
a) More likely to vote for the LNP
b) Makes no difference to me
c) Less likely to vote for the LNP

4) Do you have any reasons for your answers to Question 3

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-21/julie-bishop-to-retire/10834480


----------



## basilio (21 February 2019)

Let's remember what happened to Julie Bishop after the last Liberal bloodbath. This was a great  analysis and obviously the reason Julie finally decided enough was enough and the stoopid  twats could just go and hang themselves collectively

*Julie Bishop loves to speak in code and she saved her best one-liner for last*
By Annabel Crabb
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-28/julie-bishop-women-in-politics/10174136


----------



## basilio (21 February 2019)

With regard to the appalling behaviour of Mathias Cormann in somehow managing to get a free  family holiday "off the back of a truck" without even realising it. 

Mathias has plenty of form when it comes to getting favours.

*Mathias Cormann, the minister who watches the nation's credit card, overlooks his own*
The Conversation
By Michelle Grattan
Updated Wed at 2:53pm




* Photo:* This is one more setback for Mathias Cormann, who has seen his reputation badly dented in the past few months. (ABC News: Matt Roberts) 
*Related Story:* Cormann says he calls travel company boss direct when he wants to go on holiday
*Related Story:* Cormann spent $37,000 on flights to spruik now-abandoned tax plan
*Related Story:* One call from Mathias Cormann could have changed the course of history
Mathias Cormann's 2018 family holiday in Singapore is costing him a good deal more than the $2,780.82 he belatedly paid for airfares booked with Helloworld travel company's chief executive, who happened to be the Liberal Party Treasurer and a mate.

Senator Cormann, the Government Senate leader, said he gave his credit card number to Andrew Burnes in July 2017 and assumed — until a media query this week — the transaction had gone through. He received no reminders about the outstanding payments.

He also said he had nothing to do with handling a contract his Finance Department awarded a subsidiary of the company around the same time.

In his explanation for not noticing he hadn't been charged, Senator Cormann told a Senate estimates hearing on Tuesday that he travelled a lot and many travel-related expenses went through his card.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-20/mathias-cormann-overlooks-his-own-credit-card/10828226


----------



## basilio (21 February 2019)

Final thoughts on Julie Bishop, the Triple F situation (Free Flights Fiasco.) and ScoMo government.

Until very recently Julie Bishop had explicitly stated she would stand for re-election. This was despite the disrespect she endured during the Malcolm Turnball coup.

However I believe the FFF crisis  has destroyed the last vestiges of respect she has for the current government and current Ministers. She has decided she won't be part of such an administration and rather than continue to support the unsupportable she will gracefully withdraw. She could quite easily have stayed for the election * supported the  government,*  won her seat and then, perhaps, resigned in mid term.

But make no mistake.* Everybody knows* . Don't be surprised if other political commentators also join the dots. In my mind they are very close.
______________________________________

PS Post election justice scenario.

PM Bill Shorten immediately initiates an inquiry into Joe Hockeys behaviour as US ambassador over the Hello World scandal.  He appoints Julie Bishop as US ambassador in his place to near universal approval..


----------



## Darc Knight (21 February 2019)

You're a fan of Julie Bishop @basilio ???
You do realise she was a Managing Partner of Clayton Utz. Her brother is also a a partner.
She woulda been a Managing Partner when Clayton Utz were defending big tobacco and caught shredding documents during trial?


----------



## basilio (21 February 2019)

Darc Knight said:


> You're a fan of Julie Bishop @basilio ???
> You do realise she was a Managing Partner of Clayton Utz. Her brother is also a a partner.
> She woulda been a Managing Partner when Clayton Utz were defending big tobacco and caught shredding documents during trial?




Fan of Julie Bishops ? I think she did a very good job as Foreign Minister.  Overall I believed she was a good politician for the Liberal party and for Parliament as a whole.

I am aware of her role as Managing Director of Clayton Utz. I agree that was an ugly situation.  Perhaps I take the view that  the perfect is the enemy of the good.


----------



## sptrawler (21 February 2019)

Julie was great, just not a quick enough thinker to take the top job.
But she is one who can walk away with her head held high, not all can do that.


----------



## SirRumpole (21 February 2019)

I'm sure she will get a job as ambassador to somewhere. She'll probably replace either Hockey or Downer.


----------



## sptrawler (21 February 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> I'm sure she will get a job as ambassador to somewhere. She'll probably replace either Hockey or Downer.



As she should 20 years and still smelling of roses, takes some doing in that arena. IMO


----------



## Knobby22 (21 February 2019)

sptrawler said:


> As she should 20 years and still smelling of roses, takes some doing in that arena. IMO



Unlike Mathius Corman who I used to respect who seems to have lost his way.


----------



## sptrawler (21 February 2019)

Knobby22 said:


> Unlike Mathius Corman who I used to respect who seems to have lost his way.



Yes, he seemed like the quiet under the radar type, seems he came up to periscope depth.lol
However it is nice to know, you had respect for him, I'm sure he will feel a lot better knowing that.
There isn't many in politics I have respect for, only the ones that say what they believe, and not many do that.


----------



## Darc Knight (22 February 2019)

Alan Jones said that Julie Bishop only rang him to announce her intention to stand for Leader at 11.55pm the night before the vote. Jones said he told Bishop "sorry Julie, all the votes are now taken" (it's too late). That why she only got 11 votes.

Still, her past is a great concern.


----------



## PZ99 (22 February 2019)

Alan Jones was rooting for Dutto - personally I think Jones should just run for a seat himself.


----------



## sptrawler (22 February 2019)

From what I have seen of Alan Jones, he couldn't win a kick in a street fight. 
These opinionated journos, just feed the chooks. IMO


----------



## Darc Knight (22 February 2019)

sptrawler said:


> From what I have seen of Alan Jones, he couldn't win a kick in a street fight.
> These opinionated journos, just feed the chooks. IMO




He's Australia's most respected Broadcaster!!! 

Well, that's the spiel 2GB spew. 

How can a member of a Political party, and sounds like number cruncher for the Party be allowed to be a Broadcaster.


----------



## IFocus (22 February 2019)

1st Dog sums it up

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...campaign=FirstDogOnTheMoon&CMP=firstdog_email


----------



## sptrawler (22 February 2019)

See that is what I don't like about journalists, and I haven't read the Guardian, but what ifocus posted tells me all about the Guardian.
I am no more a fan of Abbott, than any other politician, but I can't stand the abuse he cops.
I am yet to see anyone post any footage of media outburst, that shows Abbott to be what the media have portrayed.
I remember reading once a behind the scenes media assistant said, if you like Kevin Rudd don't meet him, you will hate him.
If you hate Tony Abbott, don't meet him, you will like him.
Well just from what I've seen on the tv I can understand that.
But most wont agree, and I respect that, everyone to their own.


----------



## Zaxon (22 February 2019)

sptrawler said:


> I am yet to see anyone post any footage of media outburst, that shows Abbott to be what the media have portrayed.




My favourite media moment of Tony Abbott ever:


----------



## sptrawler (22 February 2019)

Like I said, I didn't hear him being abusive, rude or a mysoginist.
I didn't say he wasn't a goose, or that he was articulate, but I haven't heard him being accused of that.
Like I said, the public are chooks, they believe anything the moronic press put out.


----------



## Humid (22 February 2019)

sptrawler said:


> See that is what I don't like about journalists, and I haven't read the Guardian, but what ifocus posted tells me all about the Guardian.
> I am no more a fan of Abbott, than any other politician, but I can't stand the abuse he cops.
> I am yet to see anyone post any footage of media outburst, that shows Abbott to be what the media have portrayed.
> I remember reading once a behind the scenes media assistant said, if you like Kevin Rudd don't meet him, you will hate him.
> ...




What are you on about......do you ever read what people post
It goes on about Abbott being full of $hit from what I saw


----------



## Humid (22 February 2019)

IFocus said:


> 1st Dog sums it up
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/22/remember-being-shocked-by-tony-abbott-it-seems-like-a-picnic-now?utm_term=RWRpdG9yaWFsX0ZpcnN0RG9nT25UaGVNb29uLTE5MDIyMg==&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=FirstDogOnTheMoon&CMP=firstdog_email



The funny part is there queuing up on here to re-elect them on this performance


----------



## sptrawler (23 February 2019)

I suppose that is the difference between us Bas, I don't have to read the paper to know what it's bias will be, I just had to look at the heading.
As I said I have watched Abbott on the t.v and am yet to see him be anything other than thoughtfully and very measured.
Yet the journalists have a pent up hate for him, are you going to tell me, there was anything flattering, curtious or in anyway respectful in the article?
The World has been taken over by passive aggressive, people hiding behind keyboards. IMO
That is why I'm thrilled some are being taken to task.


----------



## qldfrog (23 February 2019)

The most obvious sign are the pictures usually attached to the article.not smiling or standard picture, just horrible snapshot taken out of context, any rictus is a winner 
And for the ones you favour, wisdom family portrait...
Pathetic..


----------



## Humid (23 February 2019)

Bas.....lol
I rest my case


----------



## basilio (23 February 2019)

sptrawler said:


> I suppose that is the difference between us Bas, I don't have to read the paper to know what it's bias will be, I just had to look at the heading.




Priceless.


----------



## Darc Knight (23 February 2019)




----------



## explod (23 February 2019)

They are going to drive down electricity prices is the latest, and the rant at the moment, and  they talk jobs and more jobs,

but,

they do not tell us how.  Cummorn HOW.

People are not that stupid and are questioning HOW.

Do not like the ALP and Shorten in particular but that is where we look like landing.  

Having a bubbles tonight as we need to party real hard to blind ourselves and turn away from the crap that is our dreadful situation.  And I have eight lovely Grandchildren.


----------



## explod (23 February 2019)

On the news again now 7.03pm 23/2....., but again. NO HOW, 

cummorrn, substance wanted


----------



## IFocus (23 February 2019)

sptrawler said:


> See that is what I don't like about journalists, and I haven't read the Guardian, but what ifocus posted tells me all about the Guardian.
> I am no more a fan of Abbott, than any other politician, but I can't stand the abuse he cops.





SP admire your decency but its wasted on Abbott.

He is some one who's whole political career involved tearing down leaders both opposition and in his own party.

He was responsible for getting Hanson jailed raising a fund to do so and then lying about it.

Remember he was happy to stand in front of the placards Ditch the witch his minders didnt mind at all.

Lying is 1st nature to Abbott no cuts to the ABC, Health and education...........really?

He deserves all he reaps 1st dog was actually very kind.


----------



## Smurf1976 (23 February 2019)

sptrawler said:


> I am no more a fan of Abbott, than any other politician, but I can't stand the abuse he cops.
> I am yet to see anyone post any footage of media outburst, that shows Abbott to be what the media have portrayed.



I've met him once only.

Whilst not a lover of his political views I couldn't say that anything about him seemed unreasonable as a person on that occasion.

I've certainly met some far worse people in and associated with politics that's for sure. There's a few outright nasty ones that come to mind......


----------



## Smurf1976 (23 February 2019)

explod said:


> They are going to drive down electricity prices is the latest, and the rant at the moment, and  they talk jobs and more jobs,
> 
> but,
> 
> they do not tell us how.



In the context of electricity they're introducing "default" prices for residential and small businesses in SA, NSW and south-east Qld.

That's not formal price control as such, retailers can still offer any other price they want, but they have to offer the "default" price and that becomes effectively a cap on pricing assuming nobody would choose to pay higher than the freely available default.


----------



## Bill M (24 February 2019)

Darc Knight said:


>




Love it, I couldn't have said it better myself. I've met him a few times when I was living on the northern beaches and like the old fella said.....d.......d


----------



## SirRumpole (24 February 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> That's not formal price control as such, retailers can still offer any other price they want, but they have to offer the "default" price and that becomes effectively a cap on pricing assuming nobody would choose to pay higher than the freely available default.




As you say, it's regulation by default and an admission that "market forces" have failed in this case.


----------



## sptrawler (24 February 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> As you say, it's regulation by default and an admission that "market forces" have failed in this case.



It is a mess, that has become a nightmare, as the push to renewables leaves everyone with a hand full of 2's.
But someone has to carry them.lol
Just shows essential services, should be Government owned, for the people by the people.
Water and electricity, should never be privatised.IMO


----------



## sptrawler (24 February 2019)

Bill M said:


> Love it, I couldn't have said it better myself. I've met him a few times when I was living on the northern beaches and like the old fella said.....d.......d



Well Bill, that is good to know, I've never met him only seen him on the t.v.
I've always thought he hasn't deserved the media bashing he gets, but if you've met him and reckon he is a DH that's good enough for me, you seem pretty measured in your decision making.
I'll take it the media is right then.


----------



## Ann (24 February 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Water and electricity, should never be privatised.IMO




Agreed! (This would have been a like but I am trying to wean myself off likes!   )
One thing I have noticed since they privatized electricity (in Victoria) there haven't been the same quantity of blackouts. I always kept a candle and a box of matches in an accessible area. I still keep it but haven't used it for years. I also made all my cooking and hot water gas. My oven has gone phut, poor old thing and do you think I am having a devil of a time to find a new gas oven. To go electric would mean having to re-wire the house, no thanks!


----------



## Zaxon (24 February 2019)

sptrawler said:


> I've never met him only seen him on the t.v.




You'd have to ask yourself about Julia Gillard's misogyny speech directed towards Tony Abbott.  Tony is either a misogynist, or else Julia give a big speech for no reason.  Something to think about.


----------



## sptrawler (24 February 2019)

Ann said:


> Agreed! (This would have been a like but I am trying to wean myself off likes!   )
> One thing I have noticed since they privatized electricity (in Victoria) there haven't been the same quantity of blackouts. I always kept a candle and a box of matches in an accessible area. I still keep it but haven't used it for years. I also made all my cooking and hot water gas. My oven has gone phut, poor old thing and do you think I am having a devil of a time to find a new gas oven. To go electric would mean having to re-wire the house, no thanks!



Pm smurph, he will put you on the right track.


----------



## sptrawler (24 February 2019)

Zaxon said:


> You'd have to ask yourself about Julia Gillard's misogyny speech directed towards Tony Abbott.  Tony is either a misogynist, or else Julia give a big speech for no reason.  Something to think about.




From what I've read, they were great mates, I could be wrong but Im sure I read it.


----------



## Knobby22 (24 February 2019)

Zaxon said:


> You'd have to ask yourself about Julia Gillard's misogyny speech directed towards Tony Abbott.  Tony is either a misogynist, or else Julia give a big speech for no reason.  Something to think about.



How can Tony Abbott be a misogynist?
He made himself the minister for women when PM[emoji38] as there wernt any women good enough for the job.


----------



## bellenuit (24 February 2019)

Sh


Zaxon said:


> You'd have to ask yourself about Julia Gillard's misogyny speech directed towards Tony Abbott.  Tony is either a misogynist, or else Julia give a big speech for no reason.  Something to think about.




She gave a big speech for no reason other than to deflect attention from Labor’s defence of Slipper, I think. She offered 2 or maybe 3 examples of his so called misogyny. One was the time someone behind him had a banner calling Gillard a witch, when he spoke outside parliament. Another was that he looked at his watch when she was speaking. Don’t ever underestimate the ability of some female politicians to play the sexist card when it suits them. 

Quite telling was the clip of Gillard’s speech that the ABC posted on YouTube at the time. They disabled the ability for anyone to comment on the video, thus ensuring no one could come to the defence of Abbott or explain the context of why Gillard decided to attack him.


----------



## SirRumpole (24 February 2019)

bellenuit said:


> Quite telling was the clip of Gillard’s speech that the ABC posted on YouTube at the time. They disabled the ability for anyone to comment on the video, thus ensuring no one could come to the defence of Abbott or explain the context of why Gillard decided to attack him.




The ABC have now disabled comments on all news stories on their web site.

Very undemocratic.

Apparently they expect people to use Facecr@p. Supporting a commercial operation, possibly in violation of its charter.


----------



## sptrawler (24 February 2019)

I was really shocked and suprised by the Gillard speach, but it has probably stood her in good stead, since her departure.


----------



## Smurf1976 (24 February 2019)

Ann said:


> One thing I have noticed since they privatized electricity (in Victoria) there haven't been the same quantity of blackouts.




Assuming you're in Melbourne or a large regional town that wouldn't surprise me although I'd be cautious in attributing it to the change in ownership.

I say that simply because someone in Tasmania (not privatised) would say much the same thing if reflecting upon the same periods of time.

It comes down old equipment being replaced with new equipment in transmission and distribution that's inherently more reliable as the old reached the end of its life plus modern technology enabling better monitoring in real time and thus earlier identification of problems etc.

So personally I wouldn't attribute it as being for or against any particular ownership model or a consequence of anything political on either side, it's more about asset life cycles and that modern equipment of all sorts is just more reliable.


----------



## PZ99 (24 February 2019)

bellenuit said:


> Sh
> 
> She gave a big speech for no reason other than to deflect attention from Labor’s defence of Slipper, I think. She offered 2 or maybe 3 examples of his so called misogyny. One was the time someone behind him had a banner calling Gillard a witch, when he spoke outside parliament. Another was that he looked at his watch when she was speaking. Don’t ever underestimate the ability of some female politicians to play the sexist card when it suits them.
> 
> Quite telling was the clip of Gillard’s speech that the ABC posted on YouTube at the time. They disabled the ability for anyone to comment on the video, thus ensuring no one could come to the defence of Abbott or explain the context of why Gillard decided to attack him.



The speech was relevant because it highlighted the rank hypocrisy Tony Abbott and the Libs showed by endorsing Peter Slipper during that sex harassment stuff.
Abbott was more than happy to accept Slippers' vote when he challenged Malcolm Turnbull.
It was the one vote that got him the job as opposition leader.
It was a bit much for Abbott to then attack the Labor Govt for not standing Slipper down from the role of speaker during those investigations which were later thrown out anyway.

But as for meeting Abbott face to face and avoiding politics I can't think of any reason why he couldn't be a decent, well meaning human being. 

Bark Latham? Different kettle of surströmming altogether


----------



## bellenuit (25 February 2019)

PZ99 said:


> The speech was relevant because it highlighted the rank hypocrisy Tony Abbott and the Libs showed by endorsing Peter Slipper during that sex harassment stuff.
> Abbott was more than happy to accept Slippers' vote when he challenged Malcolm Turnbull.
> It was the one vote that got him the job as opposition leader.
> It was a bit much for Abbott to then attack the Labor Govt for not standing Slipper down from the role of speaker during those investigations which were later thrown out anyway.




Yes, but that is just run of the mill politics. What Gillard did was make a personal attack on Abbott that was completely unjustified.


----------



## PZ99 (25 February 2019)

bellenuit said:


> Yes, but that is just run of the mill politics. What Gillard did was make a personal attack on Abbott that was completely unjustified.



I looked upon it as payback.


----------



## sptrawler (25 February 2019)

bellenuit said:


> Yes, but that is just run of the mill politics. What Gillard did was make a personal attack on Abbott that was completely unjustified.



It set her up for the post politics, talk circuit. IMO
Abbott was just in the wrong place at the right time, if Turnbull was there he would have worn it, I reckon.


----------



## SirRumpole (25 February 2019)

Abbott is a self confessed liar and drunk.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/worl...being-drunk-in-parliament-for-vital-vote.html


----------



## Ann (25 February 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> Assuming you're in Melbourne or a large regional town that wouldn't surprise me although I'd be cautious in attributing it to the change in ownership.
> 
> I say that simply because someone in Tasmania (not privatised) would say much the same thing if reflecting upon the same periods of time.
> 
> ...




Thanks Smurf, yes that sounds perfectly reasonable with more modern equipment doing a better job of monitoring. As they knew they were going to privatize why update the equipment?  Blackouts made us a bit more prepared, I will never give up my box of matches and candle, although I need to update the matches every-so-often, the tips go soft and won't strike. 

Here is what my little candle and match box holder looks like....small compact and useful.


----------



## Darc Knight (25 February 2019)

*Labor remains in lead in Newspoll 53-47 despite asylum boats scare*
Two-party-preferred result stays unchanged after Coalition suffers brutal week in parliament.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-in-newspoll-53-47-despite-asylum-boats-scare

I still think ScoMo will win.


----------



## overhang (25 February 2019)

sptrawler said:


> From what I've read, they were great mates, I could be wrong but Im sure I read it.




Abbott went and congratulated Gillard during the unveiling of her portrait at parliament house late last year.  I'm no fan of Abbott but I thought that was honorable given the company he found himself in while waiting to shake Gillards hand.


----------



## Knobby22 (25 February 2019)

overhang said:


> Abbott went and congratulated Gillard during the unveiling of her portrait at parliament house late last year.  I'm no fan of Abbott but I thought that was honorable given the company he found himself in while waiting to shake Gillards hand.



Poor Julia had to pretend smile. He grandstanded in front of everyone. Couldn't get him off the stage. Tragic fellow.


----------



## sptrawler (25 February 2019)

Darc Knight said:


> *Labor remains in lead in Newspoll 53-47 despite asylum boats scare*
> Two-party-preferred result stays unchanged after Coalition suffers brutal week in parliament.
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-in-newspoll-53-47-despite-asylum-boats-scare
> ...



For the sake of my retirement I hope you are right.lol


----------



## qldfrog (25 February 2019)

For the sake of my child, i hope you are right DK


----------



## SirRumpole (25 February 2019)

qldfrog said:


> For the sake of my child, i hope you are right DK




Your child might need penalty rates to pay their way through uni.


----------



## qldfrog (25 February 2019)

My child might get a job, have a country, be able to eat pork and go in a swimming pool with his girlfriend
Unemployed do not care much of penalty rates.
for the time being, he is trying to get a job but can not get one, as being above 18yold, he can not compete with younger teenagers who are below minimum wages...ahh the miracle of socialism...


----------



## SirRumpole (25 February 2019)

qldfrog said:


> he can not compete with younger teenagers who are below minimum wages...ahh the miracle of socialism...




Sorry, paying less than the minimum wage is free enterprise not socialism.


----------



## PZ99 (25 February 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Sorry, paying less than the minimum wage is free enterprise not socialism.



Correct. 

And finding work is a job in itself - I had to move a long way from home to find a decent job.
I then had to travel a long way every day to keep it.

If you're being paid dole money to find a job, then do it.


----------



## qldfrog (25 February 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Sorry, paying less than the minimum wage is free enterprise not socialism.



but not being able to compete because you are 18+ and no employer can pay you that same rate  unless risking jail is not.
I hope you understand the situation..a real life 2019 qld experience
And this is not free enterprise is it, my son would work legally for $15 per hour...but he is not allowed


----------



## qldfrog (25 February 2019)

n


PZ99 said:


> Correct.
> 
> And finding work is a job in itself - I had to move a long way from home to find a decent job.
> I then had to travel a long way every day to keep it.
> ...



no dole money, have to wait 21y old because  as dad has a company...even if there is not a cent paid to him....this is socialism...


----------



## PZ99 (25 February 2019)

qldfrog said:


> n
> 
> no dole money, have to wait 21y old because  as dad has a company...even if there is not a cent paid to him....this is socialism...



Not qualifying for dole money doesn't sound like socialism to me.
Socialism would be to pay everyone the dole whether they're working or not.

But yeah - it's tough to find work without it so I can sympathise with that.

I would suggest he do as I did. Move to Western Sydney and work unskilled for $22 a hour.

There is a truck load of work here. Hope it works out


----------



## basilio (25 February 2019)

The black economy ? Cash in hand, under award jobs ? Plenty of  employers  are happy to oblige. In fact the whole point of the working visa for overseas people is to find a workforce that will do what is wanted at whatever price is offered.

In theory, on paper these working visitors should be getting Australian awards and conditions. In practice that is joke. The hospitality industry and the farming community are rife with underpayment.


----------



## bellenuit (25 February 2019)

PZ99 said:


> Socialism would be to pay everyone the dole whether they're working or not.




That's the advertisement, until they get into power. Then there is no dole for anyone.


----------



## Humid (25 February 2019)

qldfrog said:


> My child might get a job, have a country, be able to eat pork and go in a swimming pool with his girlfriend
> Unemployed do not care much of penalty rates.
> for the time being, he is trying to get a job but can not get one, as being above 18yold, he can not compete with younger teenagers who are below minimum wages...ahh the miracle of socialism...




Unemployed give less than a rats ass about franking credits too


----------



## qldfrog (25 February 2019)

That is true,in Venezuela, Somalia or Cuba the same,
 to each his own role model.i can see you are aiming high


----------



## Humid (25 February 2019)

https://amp.abc.net.au/article/10845904


----------



## qldfrog (25 February 2019)

PZ99 said:


> Not qualifying for dole money doesn't sound like socialism to me.
> Socialism would be to pay everyone the dole whether they're working or not.
> 
> But yeah - it's tough to find work without it so I can sympathise with that.
> ...



He is studying and trying not to be a leech on his parents.finding casual work put him in competition with teens backpackers etc
And not exactly in central brisbane so not many opportunities overall


----------



## Humid (25 February 2019)

Humid said:


> https://amp.abc.net.au/article/10845904



Hereditary


----------



## PZ99 (25 February 2019)

bellenuit said:


> That's the advertisement, until they get into power. Then there is no dole for anyone.



The only no-dole narrative I've seen in this country has come from Conservative parties who are anything but socialist.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/ar...s/news-story/fc042944828119a2d6ba9b40ea599c18


----------



## Humid (25 February 2019)

PZ99 said:


> The only no-dole narrative I've seen in this country has come from Conservative parties who are anything but socialist.
> 
> https://www.theaustralian.com.au/ar...s/news-story/fc042944828119a2d6ba9b40ea599c18



Skill shortage because someone cut the guts out of TAFE and left training to the private sector who did nothing and then cried shortage
You want to exploit our resources use local workers,local products and train your shortfall.
These multis know if employ foreigners they can exploit them like the guys who do all the insulation work on LNG projects 90 % Cambodians own bus own crib rooms don’t assimilate at all.
Don’t get me wrong good on them for having a crack and their very good at what they do 
But to get a job on these projects they stipulate you need 3 years experience and bingo no local has 3 years experience in LNG
Wrapping fibre glass around pipe isn’t very difficult 
Chip pies plumbers fitters with a bit of nouse would figure it out pretty quick
Gorgon probably 200 k pa they wer3 paying 
I had guys asking me daily 
How do you get a job!,,,,


----------



## bellenuit (25 February 2019)

PZ99 said:


> The only no-dole narrative I've seen in this country has come from Conservative parties who are anything but socialist.
> 
> https://www.theaustralian.com.au/ar...s/news-story/fc042944828119a2d6ba9b40ea599c18




I'm talking about the socialist countries that were Eastern Europe and some others. As far as I can see the dole has not been abolished by any conservative government in Australia.


----------



## Humid (25 February 2019)

You don’t need the dole you cut penalty rates and so the big end of town can employ more workers 
How’s that one working out


----------



## Smurf1976 (26 February 2019)

Humid said:


> Unemployed give less than a rats ass about franking credits too



Unless of course they're ~ age 50+ and self funded in which case it's likely the single biggest issue they're focusing on with the election.

Therein lies the problem. There's no "one size fits all" with this stuff and any attempt to create that brings undesirable and (hopefully) unintended consequences.


----------



## PZ99 (26 February 2019)

bellenuit said:


> I'm talking about the socialist countries that were Eastern Europe and some others. As far as I can see the dole has not been abolished by any conservative government in Australia.



I didn't say it was ever abolished but that's their narrtive. I was talking about someone in Australia who can't get the dole until they're 21 because of their dads' business affairs.

Happily, Australia isn't like Eu*rope.*


----------



## Humid (26 February 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> Unless of course they're ~ age 50+ and self funded in which case it's likely the single biggest issue they're focusing on with the election.
> 
> Therein lies the problem. There's no "one size fits all" with this stuff and any attempt to create that brings undesirable and (hopefully) unintended consequences.




If your in your 50s unemployed you’re more likely to be going ona government pension


----------



## sptrawler (26 February 2019)

Humid said:


> Skill shortage because someone cut the guts out of TAFE and left training to the private sector who did nothing and then cried shortage
> You want to exploit our resources use local workers,local products and train your shortfall.
> These multis know if employ foreigners they can exploit them like the guys who do all the insulation work on LNG projects 90 % Cambodians own bus own crib rooms don’t assimilate at all.
> Don’t get me wrong good on them for having a crack and their very good at what they do
> ...



The only difficult thing about it, is getting people to go bush, as you know.


----------



## Toyota Lexcen (26 February 2019)

Sounds like the chinese plasterers on cbd towers that are Union backed.


----------



## Humid (26 February 2019)

Toyota Lexcen said:


> Sounds like the chinese plasterers on cbd towers that are Union backed.



Which Towers?


----------



## Humid (26 February 2019)

sptrawler said:


> The only difficult thing about it, is getting people to go bush, as you know.



Yeah it’s the long construction rosters....4x1
EBA jobs they don’t have any trouble filling positions


----------



## Humid (26 February 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> Unless of course they're ~ age 50+ and self funded in which case it's likely the single biggest issue they're focusing on with the election.
> 
> Therein lies the problem. There's no "one size fits all" with this stuff and any attempt to create that brings undesirable and (hopefully) unintended consequences.




If your in your 50s self funded and the abolishment of the franking credits is going to be your downfall.....get a bloody job


----------



## Toyota Lexcen (26 February 2019)

Humid said:


> Which Towers?



Every tower


----------



## chiff (26 February 2019)

I  get franking credits,however there are alternative investments..ie bonds ,mortgage trusts ,foreign shares etc. These entitled ,precious self funded retirees want to start to think for themselves.My local member ,Rebekha Sharkey ,sent out a spiel saying these poor self-funded retiries had to consider the expense if they went to the local hotel for a meal once a week etc.They must have a good lobby group these people...they are mainly from God's waiting room  at Victor Harbour I suspect.
By definition self-funded retiries are doing OK.By contrast someone on a full pension and paying rent is doing it tough.Not a whimper when poorer workers lost their penalty rates.


----------



## basilio (26 February 2019)

Humid said:


> If your in your 50s unemployed you’re more likely to be going ona government pension



 Do you mean right now or in 20 years time ? (If your still around.)

I would fear for anyone in their 50's who has been made redundant and is trying to get a job in a job market that is very competitive and focused  on youth. There are only so many jobs available at Bunnings.

"Once  upon a time" when factory workers lost their jobs in their 50's and particularly if they wern't that skilled. the Government  quietly allowed them to go onto disability pensions. It isn't a huge amount (same as old age pensions) but it kept people under a roof and not totally suicidal.  And this policy  tacitly recognised that with the decline in  manufacturing there would be few new jobs suitable for such people . It also recognised that perhaps younger people would be better served with those opportunities.

That option has now been lost. Disability pensions provisions have been tightened right down. Your 50's unemployed worker has to spend all their savings then go on Newstart and apply for 20 BS jobs a month to keep alive.


----------



## basilio (26 February 2019)

Some interesting figures on how voters are viewing Labour and Lib or various policy issues.

* Labor ahead in Essential poll as voters prefer social spending to tax concessions *
Survey puts opposition ahead of Coalition 52% to 48% on two-party-preferred, with voters split on medical evacuations bill 

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...ers-prefer-social-spending-to-tax-concessions


----------



## qldfrog (26 February 2019)

Not a surprise...do you prefer receiving money or helping your boss
The surprise is 48pc still understand that when all businesses are closed, there is no pie left to share.
Then the spiel turn into taxing foreign corporation
Well rehearsed speech...how can labour even loose...


----------



## Humid (26 February 2019)

basilio said:


> Do you mean right now or in 20 years time ? (If your still around.)
> 
> I would fear for anyone in their 50's who has been made redundant and is trying to get a job in a job market that is very competitive and focused  on youth. There are only so many jobs available at Bunnings.
> 
> ...




At retirement age.......probably 30 years by then


----------



## Humid (26 February 2019)

Toyota Lexcen said:


> Sounds like the chinese plasterers on cbd towers that are Union backed.



Last time I checked the union didn’t issue visas 
Unions stand up for working people regardless where your from.

How about before the City council approves new buildings the builders have to employ a certain amount of apprentices before getting a green light
It was done before for government contracts were issued 
Canberra is full of lawyers who have no concept of the real world


----------



## Toyota Lexcen (26 February 2019)

They support the companies on there sites to get union fees.

Like the farce of a 36hr week.


----------



## Smurf1976 (26 February 2019)

Humid said:


> If your in your 50s self funded and the abolishment of the franking credits is going to be your downfall.....get a bloody job



That would first require employers to be willing to employ such people.

I’ve seen enough of it to know the truth indeed fear of that outcome is the primary reason I’ve saved and invested throughout my working life thus far.

Much the same reason I willingly worked 7 days a week when I had the option.

If you end up over 50 + out of work then you’re on the scrap heap unless you’re incredibly lucky. It happens to a hell of a lot.


----------



## Humid (26 February 2019)

Toyota Lexcen said:


> They support the companies on there sites to get union fees.
> 
> Like the farce of a 36hr week.




More delays more pays


----------



## Humid (26 February 2019)

Toyota Lexcen said:


> They support the companies on there sites to get union fees.
> 
> Like the farce of a 36hr week.




https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...women-have-a&usg=AOvVaw3WvpFOh4hmfWLm5k_Ugv-G


----------



## Toyota Lexcen (26 February 2019)

What 


Humid said:


> More delays more pays



What do you mean?

Thousandso of people missing out on jobs, greedy few.


----------



## basilio (1 March 2019)

Lets talk about the the dying days of this diseased government.
I do love First Dog on the Moon. He has perfected a new political comic strip that slices and dices some of the most ridiculous sorts of political BS into neat, flushable pieces.

Because in the end much of this BS should be flushed. It's odious, spiteful, lying rubbish.
So check out his take on how" lying, conning refugees are pushing hardworking, decent Aussies off hospital waiting lists ".
* Peter Dutton and the dumb, cruel lie *
First Dog on the Moon
It’s the really obvious barefaced, pants down, bum out the window lies that get me

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/01/peter-dutton-and-the-dumb-cruel-lie


----------



## basilio (2 March 2019)

Looking at the contradictions of the governments new plans to deal with CC. (Or at least the perceptions of the "soft  Libs" )

* Coalition is struggling to handle the heat of its own bonfire *
Katharine Murphy
The party finds itself caught up in contradictions in its rushed measures to tackle climate change

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...uggling-to-handle-the-heat-of-its-own-bonfire


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## wayneL (2 March 2019)

basilio said:


> Lets talk about the the dying days of this diseased government.
> I do love First Dog on the Moon. He has perfected a new political comic strip that slices and dices some of the most ridiculous sorts of political BS into neat, flushable pieces.
> 
> Because in the end much of this BS should be flushed. It's odious, spiteful, lying rubbish.
> ...



Just wondering if you will keep up the vitriol for Shorten and co., Bas?


----------



## SirRumpole (2 March 2019)

wayneL said:


> Just wondering if you will keep up the vitriol for Shorten and co., Bas?




Labor is not in government , yet.

If they stuff up as much as the Coalition the heat will be on them.


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## wayneL (2 March 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Labor is not in government , yet.
> 
> If they stuff up as much as the Coalition the heat will be on them.



They are a shoe-in IMO, Horace. 

No doubt they will cop a spray, but as bas is the most prolific regurgitator of anti centre right propaganda (some most certainly deserved btw), I'm wondering if he'll maintain the rage with Labor. 

I suspect not and that will be instructive.


----------



## SirRumpole (2 March 2019)

wayneL said:


> They are a shoe-in IMO, Horace.
> 
> No doubt they will cop a spray, but as bas is the most prolific regurgitator of anti centre right propaganda (some most certainly deserved btw), I'm wondering if he'll maintain the rage with Labor.
> 
> I suspect not and that will be instructive.




We'll see in six years I suppose.


----------



## wayneL (2 March 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> We'll see in six years I suppose.



Perhaps not,  perhaps only approved opinions may be posted by then.


----------



## explod (2 March 2019)

wayneL said:


> Just wondering if you will keep up the vitriol for Shorten and co., Bas?



That will depend on the performance i'd say.  The way they support the coal industry and the clearing of natural habitats for timber the social justice fight will continue.  Hope at least there is some empathy for well qualified 60 yo women who cannot get a job and are living out of their cars.


----------



## explod (2 March 2019)

But this is where our govmint is at ATM:-

"
Australia is the only developed country that allows climate change funding to be used to upgrade coal-fired power plants, green finance experts say.

Experts say allowing Vales Point coal-fired power station to register with the Morrison government’s emissions reduction fund, re-badged this week as a “climate solutions” policy, puts Australia out of step with the World Bank, Europe and the US, which have all rejected using climate financing for coal power retrofits. The World Bank has issued US$13bn in green bonds since 2008 to stimulate spending to combat global warming.

China has used green bonds to help build new coal-fired plants to replace older, dirtier stations on the grounds it reduces nitrogen-based emissions causing the country’s oppressive air pollution. But it announced in December it would no longer consider “clean coal” plants which still emit significant amounts of greenhouse gas as investments in green technology.

“If you were committed to meeting the goals of the Paris climate agreement, which the Australian government says it is this is just lunacy,” Sean Kidney CEO of the London-based Climate Bonds Initiative,says. “No investors in the western world will accept any green bonds that incentivize anything like coal station retrofits. From an investor’s perspective, coal is a dead duck.” Private-sector capital is increasingly looking for low carbon and de-carbonization opportunities, it would seem to be swimming against the tide to put taxpayer funding into these [coal] activities,” Herd says.

Emma Herd, chief executive of the Investor Group on Climate Change, says Australia is moving across the trend by considering giving taxpayer support to coal. In addition to the potential support through the climate solutions fund, the government is considering underwriting the cost of building new coal-fired power stations.

In the past fortnight, mining giant Glencore has said it will cap coal production in response to pressure from shareholders, while Rio Tinto stressed it was the only large mining company with no fossil fuel investments, having sold its final coal assets to Glencore last year. From an investor’s perspective, coal is a dead duck.

Last year the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change said that limiting global warming to 1.5C – a goal referenced in the Paris climate agreement – would require coal use for energy to fall 59-78% below 2010 levels by 2030.

The Global Carbon Project found global emissions were likely to have hit a new high in 2018, in part due to an increase in coal burning in China. It bucked a global decline in emissions from coal in 2015 and 2016."

Out of discussions today with an alternative direction to help our planet in The Greens.


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## basilio (2 March 2019)

wayneL said:


> No doubt they will cop a spray, but as bas is the most prolific regurgitator of anti centre right propaganda (some most certainly deserved btw), I'm wondering if he'll maintain the rage with Labor.
> 
> I suspect not and that will be instructive.




I think Dutton is lower than  a snakes belly. The spray he ( and ScoMo)  scored from First Dog on the Moon was  right on target. The Aslyum seekers are in serious health difficulties as a direct consequence of the vindictive behaviours of the current administration. They have steadfastly refused to treat the problems until  overwhelming urgency is apparent. Shame that is too late most of the time..

Our public medical system, built for 25 million people, would  cope with a few aslyum seekers. It just would as it attempts to do for the wide range of illnesses and problems it faces.  

And in any case Wayne (as FDOM points out) the challenge of  our public health system is a consequence of a Liberal government that has cut billions of dollars from the system - while spending billions of dollars making nightmare camps that destroy peoples lives in the name of national security. Figures doesn't it ?

Yep Dutton is a priceless, nasty piece of merda.  Looking forward to seeing him drummed out of Parliament.


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## Smurf1976 (3 March 2019)

basilio said:


> Our public medical system, built for 25 million people, would  cope with a few aslyum seekers.



I agree with the principle of what you are saying but I see rather a lot of evidence that our medical system isn't coping with 25 million and would probably struggle with 20 million.

Elderly people left literally lying on the floor in WA, ambulances queued outside hospitals for hours in SA, waiting lists for surgery in Tas. Not sure about the other states but those 3 at least already have issues.

We should of course be able to afford this stuff. Just stop the waste and special deals for very special mates and spend the money on useful stuff instead.


----------



## SirRumpole (3 March 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> I agree with the principle of what you are saying but I see rather a lot of evidence that our medical system isn't coping with 25 million and would probably struggle with 20 million.
> 
> Elderly people left literally lying on the floor in WA, ambulances queued outside hospitals for hours in SA, waiting lists for surgery in Tas. Not sure about the other states but those 3 at least already have issues.
> 
> We should of course be able to afford this stuff. Just stop the waste and special deals for very special mates and spend the money on useful stuff instead.




Yes, and whose watch has this happened under ?

Hence the call by the opposition for more health spending funded by the NG and franking rebates,


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## Smurf1976 (3 March 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Yes, and whose watch has this happened under ?
> 
> Hence the call by the opposition for more health spending funded by the NG and franking rebates,



It has happened under various state governments of both political persuasions, they're the ones running hospitals.

I'm not ideologically opposed to the concept of additional funding but I'd want to stop the waste first. And by waste I mean the ludicrous sums paid out for certain contracted services which aren't subject to competitive tender because they're wrapped up as an add-on to a bigger contract.

Both sides of politics are to blame there although ideologically the Liberals are keener on that sort of thing certainly. FWIW Labor would have good access to the details, in practice, via the unions who would almost certainly know.

I'd put the plug in the bath before turning up the taps though that's for sure and my comment stands no matter which party is in government. If I'm going to pay more tax then I want that to actually fix the hospitals not prop up overpriced deals.


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## Humid (3 March 2019)

wayneL said:


> Just wondering if you will keep up the vitriol for Shorten and co., Bas?




Just wondering if you’ll ramp up yours


----------



## IFocus (3 March 2019)

wayneL said:


> Just wondering if you will keep up the vitriol for Shorten and co., Bas?




Newscorp shrills will kindly do that for you..........


----------



## wayneL (3 March 2019)

Humid said:


> Just wondering if you’ll ramp up yours



Well,  like I've said before,  I'm no fan of this government, and I think Labor are about to make some colossal mistakes. 

But I will try to keep it objective rather than propaganda.


----------



## wayneL (3 March 2019)

IFocus said:


> Newscorp shrills will kindly do that for you..........




All MSM is just shyte mate.


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## Toyota Lexcen (3 March 2019)

Humid said:


> More delays more pays




What do you mean?

Why is no building site run on 36hr week? 

Why do you march in street to protect pay conditions?


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## basilio (3 March 2019)

First Dog on the Moon may have used pictures and satire to skewer the poisonous dribble from this current government.  But the reality behind his comments are still as pertinent and is absolutely worth understanding. 
This government is mouldy toast.

* Coalition rabble-rousing, on refugees or franking credits, is beneath contempt *
Greg Jericho
A government claiming medical evacuees will swamp our hospitals doesn’t deserve respect, or votes

 @GrogsGamut 
Sun 3 Mar 2019 07.31 AEDT   Last modified on Sun 3 Mar 2019 07.33 AEDT

Shares
309




‘The latest base argument is a desperate attempt to engender hate towards a group of people and also towards anyone supporting their well-being.’ Photograph: Lukas Coch/AAP
It is now abundantly clear that the Morrison government regards the voters and our national institutions with complete contempt.

This contempt, of course, has been building as the Coalition gets more desperate to cling to power. It is now on full display. Sure their policies treat us like idiots, but the contempt goes deeper.

Peter Dutton highlighted on Thursday just how completely contemptuous this government is of voters when he suggested that the new laws to bring sick asylum seekers on Manus Island and Nauru to Australia would “see Australians who are in waiting lines at public hospitals kicked off those waiting lines because people from Nauru and Manus are now going to access those health services”.

What utter garbage.

And of course he was supported by the prime minister when he was asked about it on Friday, saying it was “simple math”.

Simple is right.

To suggest that our health system, designed for 25 million people, can’t cope with a few hundred people coming for a variety of medical reasons is to suggest that the system overseen by the Liberal party for the past five and a half years is in complete disarray.

That said, given Dutton was in charge of the health ministry for 15 months, I guess we should not completely rule out that possibility.

This utterly base argument is nothing less than a desperate attempt to engender hate towards a group of people and also towards anyone supporting their well-being.

It shows no respect for voters’ intelligence or even the ability of the institutions designed to keep Australians healthy.
*

So egregiously false is Dutton’s and Morrison’s claim that St Vincent’s Health Australia tweeted it was “baseless”.


“Public hospitals can accommodate the health needs of asylum seekers without disadvantaging anyone.”


In a further slap to the government they stated that “St Vincent’s is happy to make its hospitals available to provide care to asylum seekers without affecting waiting lists”.*

This conhttps://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/03/coalition-rabble-rousing-on-refugees-or-franking-credits-is-beneath-contempttempt for systems and institutions is no longer the exception but the practice.


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## SirRumpole (3 March 2019)

basilio said:


> A government claiming medical evacuees will swamp our hospitals doesn’t deserve respect, or votes




So apparently what the government is saying is that if there was a national disaster that injures a couple of hundred people then the health system couldn't cope ?

Well if Dutton/ Morrison are right then that's a pretty damning criticism of their handling of the health system over the last 6 years isn't it ?

What bs artists they are.


----------



## Smurf1976 (3 March 2019)

wayneL said:


> Well,  like I've said before,  I'm no fan of this government, and I think Labor are about to make some colossal mistakes.



The Liberals lost the plot a long time ago in my view but that doesn't mean I'm keen on Labor at the moment since nothing I see says that they understand the seriousness of the situation.

The proverbial chickens from the unconstrained housing boom and privatising / outsourcing pretty much everything, both of which were reasonable concepts to a point but then went way too far, seem to be coming home to roost and collectively it's a huge mess measured in tens if not hundreds of $ billions.

It's hard to see a way out of the mess that doesn't involve serious $ being written off in practice, either outright or via inflation, loss of investment returns and so on. There's just so much dubious allocation of capital, so many uncompetitively high costs locked in decades ahead and so on that there's no easy fix.

At a political level I don't think either side has answers really and it will take a clear and undeniable recession to force action. 

At a personal level - invest accordingly.


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## SirRumpole (3 March 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> At a personal level - invest accordingly.




What would you recommend ?


----------



## basilio (3 March 2019)

More blatant lies from the Liberals.
 
* Angus Taylor again falsely claims Australia's greenhouse emissions are falling *
The energy minister repeats PM’s line that emissions fell by 1% when the government’s own figures show the opposite

Amy Remeikis

 @amyremeikis 
Sun 3 Mar 2019 11.59 AEDT   Last modified on Sun 3 Mar 2019 12.22 AEDT


 
Shares
9



Angus Taylor repeatedly stated emissions had decreased by 1% in an interview on the ABC’s Insiders program. Photograph: Lukas Coch/AAP
*The energy minister has again insisted Australia’s emissions are going down, when the government’s official figures show emissions continue to increase, as the government struggles to sell the latest incarnation of its energy po
The latest greenhouse gas emissions data is out, and YES, another record (and a new graph)






7:44 PM - 27 Feb 2019







*


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## orr (3 March 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> The Liberals lost the plot a long time
> 
> The proverbial chickens from the unconstrained housing boom and privatising / outsourcing pretty much everything, both of which were reasonable concepts to a point but then went way too far, seem to be coming home to roost and collectively it's a huge mess measured in tens if not hundreds of $ billions.
> 
> ...




Who was it that said 'the situation is hopeless, we must take the next step'

Collectively 25 million of us own a continent; not a bad asset.
For a little too long the management of the sovereign components of those assets overseen by our Political representatives has had very limited 'checks' and certainly no commissioned statuary body keeping a eye on things for the benefit of the greater population.
little things like Alexander Downers contracts with Woodside post his shunt of East Timors LNG.
Ian McFarlands Half a Million a year $eat on the Minerals council for turning up and having a cup of coffee.
Why Qatar will receive $24.5 billion in royalties 2022 for selling less of the same commodity sovereign asset than we do; and yet we only receive $800 million. LNG for those not paying attention.(in a short 4 years there's a $100 Billion Smurf)

A National Integrity Commission... to long coming . 

The strength of a country isn't it's Political Parties It is the strength of its Institutions. The institutions that hold those in power to book.
See you in the Federal Court Michealia.

What's the difference between a 'pocket call' and a robo call from Scott Morrison? Nothing They're both an earful of jangling jarring bollocks.


----------



## explod (3 March 2019)

Well said orr, but take care, if you start to infer that our country belongs to us all from conception and that our children's future is being sold down the drain you will be regarded as a lefty, communist or socialist my Comaarraaarrde, so there GRASSHOPPER


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## Toyota Lexcen (3 March 2019)

should the royalties go to welfare? 158bil/pa spent there already


----------



## Smurf1976 (3 March 2019)

Toyota Lexcen said:


> should the royalties go to welfare? 158bil/pa spent there already




Welfare spending basically fits into 4 broad categories:

1. Those who spent all they earned and didn't provide for their own inevitable future needs.

2. Middle class welfare for the sake of it.

3. Those who suffered some sort of misfortune.

4. Those who rort the system.

With the vast majority of spending being on the first two - the elderly and families with kids.

Politically, well neither party seems likely to reign in middle class welfare anytime soon and we've got one major party pushing everyone toward the pension anyway so it's a given that welfare spending is going up not down. 

For what's left, well nobody's going to target the disabled (fair enough) and the other things (eg unemployed) are too few $ to be worth worrying about.


----------



## explod (3 March 2019)

Toyota Lexcen said:


> should the royalties go to welfare? 158bil/pa spent there already



It should be described as Community Support and in essence we are one human family.

The amount required is insignificant compared to the unpaid taxes of multinationals, the money wasted on gambling and now even sport.  A home and food and medical for all she be first cab off the rank.


----------



## SirRumpole (3 March 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> and we've got one major party pushing everyone toward the pension anyway




The major party you are referring to made superannuation mandatory to get people off the pension, the other party turned it into a tax avoidance scheme.


----------



## qldfrog (3 March 2019)

explod said:


> Well said orr, but take care, if you start to infer that our country belongs to us all from conception and that our children's future is being sold down the drain you will be regarded as a



You will be treated fascist, far right etc as you believe 26 millions Australians have alright not to bring in billions of less fortunate to the party.
One side pretend to defend australia from foreign corporation but let the  foot soldiers in, while the other side do the opposite
In both cases, we are screwed


----------



## Smurf1976 (3 March 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> The major party you are referring to made superannuation mandatory to get people off the pension, the other party turned it into a tax avoidance scheme.



They made super mandatory to get people partly off the pension that is true, it's not enough to get them off completely but it reduces it, but they're proposing to give a pretty decent kick to anyone who took their own action to keep themselves off it plus the dole, disability or other welfare completely.

Given that most will use one of the various ways to avoid paying the tax it's all a bit pointless really.


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## SirRumpole (4 March 2019)

Liberal's  'misleading' arguments against Labor's tax policies.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-04/analysis-claims-labor-big-tax-policies-misleading/10861688


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## So_Cynical (4 March 2019)

Can we wrap this thread up? ScoMo is clearly a dead duck, he probably should not of stood for the leadership, would of been better to let the wreckers have Dutton and do a thorough job of the wreaking then take over after the election in opposition.


----------



## IFocus (4 March 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> Welfare spending basically fits into 4 broad categories:
> 
> 1. Those who spent all they earned and didn't provide for their own inevitable future needs.
> 
> ...







Missed the big one Smurf

*5. Corporate welfare



*


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## Smurf1976 (4 March 2019)

IFocus said:


> Missed the big one Smurf
> 
> *5. Corporate welfare*



Can't argue with that.

In my mind I was thinking of things which are either legitimate or at least pretend to be but yeah, corporate welfare is a huge one. 

Australia Vs Qatar and the gas industry is just one example of many - and Qatar seems to be wisely investing those royalties building up an international airline, tourism, financial sector and so on.

Here's another tax avoidance mechanism and believe it or not, it's legal: https://www.abc.net.au/life/what-salary-packaging-is-and-how-it-works/10830070

There might be the odd case where it makes sense, superannuation contributions for example, but leasing a car? Just no, that's more middle class welfare right there.

My own view is simplify the whole lot as much as possible, no ordinary worker should need professional advice to fill out their Tax Return that's just silly, and keep welfare as a safety net for those who have genuinely suffered some unfortunate occurrence in life.

As I said to the person conducting an official opinion poll who asked me a few days ago, I'm not overly impressed with the present government but there's nobody else I'm convinced will actually do much better. It's not like 1993 when there were two well thought out but substantially different visions on offer.


----------



## IFocus (4 March 2019)

Problem is Smurf if anybody proposed a Qatar  option all hell would break loose claims of socialist state etc Labor couldn't even get a mining wealth tax up how much did that cost us?


----------



## basilio (6 March 2019)

Another dose of egg on face for  the ScoMo (non) government.
Apparently they tried to use Federal Treasury advice to trash the Labour Partys' negative gearing proposals.
Trouble was Treasury din't actually say that - and the story has come out.

*Federal Treasury scolds Coalition for exaggerating impact of Labor's proposed negative gearing overhaul*
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03...ition-labor-negative-gearing-changes/10873514


----------



## SirRumpole (6 March 2019)

Australia is in a recession on a per capita basis.

Nice work Liberals...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-06/gdp-q4-2018/10874592


----------



## Junior (6 March 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Australia is in a recession on a per capita basis.
> 
> Nice work Liberals...
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-06/gdp-q4-2018/10874592




But but...... "sound economic management"


----------



## basilio (6 March 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Australia is in a recession on a per capita basis.
> 
> Nice work Liberals...
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-06/gdp-q4-2018/10874592




Seems like it would have made more sense for the Libs to have gone to an early election late  last year so they could then blame Labour for the recession.

Oops. Actually they can still blame Labour can't they ?  Just because they can  ???


----------



## Smurf1976 (6 March 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Australia is in a recession on a per capita basis.



Add in the rising cost of housing, utilities and insurance and I think the average working person, particularly those who bought their first home after the boom, has been going backward for quite a while now.


----------



## SirRumpole (6 March 2019)

basilio said:


> Seems like it would have made more sense for the Libs to have gone to an early election late  last year so they could then blame Labour for the recession.
> 
> Oops. Actually they can still blame Labour can't they ?  Just because they can  ???




Looks like it will once again be Labor's lot to inherit a financial/ economic crisis.


----------



## qldfrog (7 March 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Looks like it will once again be Labor's lot to inherit a financial/ economic crisis.



Sadly i agree and their expected dumb spending policy which has been so ineffective on the long term everywhere will make sure australia is the next Argentina/Chile
Our politicians are well paid already but i think a taxpayer tour od these two countries should be mandatory.At least, they could not pretend not knowing what is ahead .history does repeat.
a bit off subject


----------



## Macquack (7 March 2019)

What's with Morrison doing a Trump style stunt in visiting Christmas Island.
Is he there to build a wall or roll out the red carpet.


----------



## moXJO (7 March 2019)

I don't see how wages can keep going higher. Bills for various services and utilities need to start dropping along with rego,  rates,  electricity, even food. 

People have stopped spending as they are too stretched. But imo wages are already at the high end of the scale that we are seeing negative effects. 

Prices need to drop over the board. Council and government greed and gouging need to be cut back.


----------



## basilio (7 March 2019)

How tough should mutual obligation be for welfare recipients? What is like trying to exist on $225 a week in OZ in 2019 ?  Read the story and ask how you would feel in such a situation.

* Life on the breadline: Centrelink's 'mutual obligation' is a system of humiliation *
Nijole Naujokas
You might think it’s easy to jump through hoops but the hoops keep growing and moving around and you can still lose your payments
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-mutual-obligation-is-a-system-of-humiliation


----------



## basilio (7 March 2019)

The Guardian Series Life on the breadline was written by people not journalists. These are the people who for a range of reasons are not in paid work and struggling to live on Newstart.

They are also willing to expose themselves and their difficult lives to challenge current government policy on slow starvation Newstart allowances.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/series/life-on-the-breadline


----------



## moXJO (7 March 2019)

basilio said:


> The Guardian Series Life on the breadline was written by people not journalists. These are the people who for a range of reasons are not in paid work and struggling to live on Newstart.
> 
> They are also willing to expose themselves and their difficult lives to challenge current government policy on slow starvation Newstart allowances.
> https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/series/life-on-the-breadline



Jesus
There is no way you would starve in this country unless you were an utter idiot.
Too many services.


----------



## Tink (10 March 2019)




----------



## basilio (10 March 2019)

"Nice" story Tink. Have to say the response of people to this sheer rubbish is very strong. Well worth a reality check if you click onto the link

Replying to @*JoshFrydenberg* @*billshortenmp* @*FinancialReview*
Well Josh you’ve been backing businesses for 6 years how come the workers haven’t had a pay rise in all those yrs when business profits are up 20% ????



*Ron Jones*
*❄*‏ @*RBJRON*
Replying to @*JoshFrydenberg* @*billshortenmp* @*FinancialReview*
Lets see a business without customers you dope. Customer's provide cash flow, no disposable income to spend no income for business's

9:14 PM - 7 Mar 2019 
 *Some Bloke*‏ @*Leahym34Some* Mar 7


Replying to @*JoshFrydenberg* @*JanGulli12* and
Workers used to be thought of as an asset by business owners , but under this government they are thought of as a liability.
 *MormorLady*‏ @*mormorlady* Mar 7


Replying to @*JoshFrydenberg* @*billshortenmp* @*FinancialReview*
Give it up Joshie If the ordinary consumers don't have the money to spend those companies are going to go bust ..... thought you were supposed to understand basic economic matters!!

1 reply    3 retweets    16 likes


----------



## sptrawler (10 March 2019)

IFocus said:


> Problem is Smurf if anybody proposed a Qatar  option all hell would break loose claims of socialist state etc Labor couldn't even get a mining wealth tax up how much did that cost us?



Because it was dumb, we can't get them to pay tax on profits and we were going to get them to pay tax on super profits. FFS
Why didn't they put the tax on volume?
The only one who suggested it, Brendan Grylls, was soon thrown out.
Australia's going to get exactly what it deserves. IMO


----------



## sptrawler (10 March 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Looks like it will once again be Labor's lot to inherit a financial/ economic crisis.



Yep best get the excuses primed locked and loaded.
Actually what Labor is proposing, will make budget surpluses a shoe in, I just don't think the average working person is going to like the outcomes.
Just my opinion.


----------



## Humid (11 March 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Yep best get the excuses primed locked and loaded.
> Actually what Labor is proposing, will make budget surpluses a shoe in, I just don't think the average working person is going to like the outcomes.
> Just my opinion.



 From what I’ve been reading on here the average non working person isn’t going to like the outcome either.....


----------



## SirRumpole (11 March 2019)

sptrawler said:


> I just don't think the average working person is going to like the outcomes.




Labor is promising tax cuts for "the average working person", rather than for those who don't need them so we'll see how that goes down with the electorate.


----------



## Knobby22 (11 March 2019)

Just watched The Last Fixer an ode to Christopher Pyne and it has made me wistful. He was a good force in the Liberal Party and will be missed by me at least.

In comparison holding on by his fingernails Tony Abbott will probably still be around boosting the polls for Labor. The Fixer is gone but the Wrecker remains.

Reading on Sky news that Linda Reynolds mixed up the Liberal wages policy with Labors and reading in The Australian that the Libs are going to promise tax cuts they cannot fund, you have to say that it looks like the Muppets are now in control.


----------



## Tink (11 March 2019)

Tink said:


>





*Trump's US wage rises ignored by Bill Shorten*

Bill Shorten has declared the federal election a referendum on worker pay so the Labor leader should have noticed US wage growth jumped to a 10-year high on Friday.

Under a tax-cutting and deregulating President Donald Trump, US wages are finally growing at a healthy 3.4 per cent pace. On top of this the US unemployment rate is 3.8 per cent, close to the lows last achieved in the 1960s.

https://www.afr.com/news/economy/trumps-us-wage-rises-ignored-by-bill-shorten-20190310-h1c7bl


----------



## PZ99 (11 March 2019)

"ALP policies on IR, trade & tax" LOL

Wasn't it the federal Coalition Govt that blocked the Victorian ALP trade deal with China ?

Wasn't it the Coalition state Govts that fixed wage rises at 2.5% for public servants ?

Wasn't it the Abbott Govt that increased super tax on low income earners and excise on fuel ?

Shouldn't the Coalition be taking this magic lead from Uncle Sam instead of being hypocrites ?

Maybe they could start by backing penalty rates ?


----------



## Zaxon (11 March 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Labor is promising tax cuts for "the average working person", rather than for those who don't need them so we'll see how that goes down with the electorate.


----------



## SirRumpole (11 March 2019)

Zaxon said:


> View attachment 92806




Looks like a landslide if the polls are right and they hold until the election.

I don't think people are listening to the coalition any more, six years of nothing has to take it's toll.


----------



## wayneL (11 March 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Looks like a landslide if the polls are right and they hold until the election.
> 
> I don't think people are listening to the coalition any more, six years of nothing has to take it's toll.



They have betrayed their base,  and are pandering to SJWs...  folks who will never vote for them anyway,  ensuring the great ideological exodus to the minors.

So yeah,  your evaluation is correct, nobody is listening. 

Nobody is listening to Labor either,  but they will romp it in my default. It will take a few more years for folks to abandon binary idiocy


----------



## Darc Knight (11 March 2019)

Let's just get a Government that sits a bit to the right on the economy and a bit to the left socially. Then paddle like crazy!


----------



## wayneL (11 March 2019)

Darc Knight said:


> Let's just get a Government that sits a bit to the right on the economy and a bit to the left socially. Then paddle like crazy!



Comedy gold!

That would be a "classical liberal" party. And the only classically liberal party in Oz is categorized as Nazis.


----------



## Knobby22 (11 March 2019)

wayneL said:


> Comedy gold!
> 
> That would be a "classical liberal" party. And the only classically liberal party in Oz is categorized as Nazis.



They had a leader trying to do that. 
They decided instead to commit political suicide.


----------



## Darc Knight (11 March 2019)

wayneL said:


> Comedy gold!
> 
> That would be a "classical liberal" party. And the only classically liberal party in Oz is categorized as Nazis.




Geez Wayne. All your Kommy name calling mighta been misdirected hey!


----------



## wayneL (11 March 2019)

Darc Knight said:


> Geez Wayne. All your Kommy name calling mighta been misdirected hey!



Commy name calling? 

Not another straw man fallacy?


----------



## Darc Knight (11 March 2019)

wayneL said:


> Commy name calling?
> 
> Not another straw man fallacy?




Cmon Wayne, how many times have you called me/us Commies or Komrades. Not that I'm complaining, there's something quite amusing about it all.


----------



## wayneL (11 March 2019)

Darc Knight said:


> Cmon Wayne, how many times have you called me/us Commies or Komrades. Not that I'm complaining, there's something quite amusing about it all.



I have never told anyone here commie, unless I was three sheets to the wind one night, and can't remember. 

However,  "Comrades" is merely the term Labor Party members refer to each other. 

I use "Komrades" for the requisite comedic effect


----------



## PZ99 (11 March 2019)

Darc Knight said:


> Let's just get a Government that sits a bit to the right on the economy and a bit to the left socially. Then paddle like crazy!



I like that one...
_"damn the torpedoes... _​_keep paddling!..."_​​


----------



## IFocus (11 March 2019)

wayneL said:


> I have never told anyone here commie, unless I was three sheets to the wind one night, and can't remember.
> 
> However,  "Comrades" is merely the term Labor Party members refer to each other.
> 
> I use "Komrades" for the requisite comedic effect





When I was active in the union movement during the 70's the old timers used Comrade by the mid 90's it was long gone modern Labor follow neo-liberalism.............you are still in that echo chamber.


----------



## wayneL (11 March 2019)

IFocus said:


> When I was active in the union movement during the 70's the old timers used Comrade by the mid 90's it was long gone modern Labor follow neo-liberalism.............you are still in that echo chamber.



Okay. 

But I still think "Komrade" is apt.


----------



## PZ99 (12 March 2019)

Here you go... perfect illustration of Liberal Party definition of a wage "rise" 

Tasmanian public sector workers have flagged full-day strikes after rejecting the state government's latest pay and conditions offer.

The Liberal government recently budged from their two-per-cent wage cap, a position they held for months that put them at loggerheads with unions who demanded more.

Their new offer included a 2 per cent increase in the the first year, followed by 2.25 per cent and 2.5 per cent in the two years following.

But unions have rejected the proposal, saying it doesn't keep pace with the cost of living and includes a loss of conditions.

https://www.news.com.au/national/br...r/news-story/18172a5063eb1bac59e02c8683ca499b

Maybe our popular Josh should tell 'em to do it Trump style


----------



## Junior (12 March 2019)

Knobby22 said:


> They had a leader trying to do that.
> They decided instead to commit political suicide.




You're right about that.  

Malcolm was very popular with the public when he first took office.  If his party got behind him on just a few key issues, they would easily have been able to knock off Shorten this year.  Appease younger voters on climate change, SSM etc. and appease long term Liberal voters by supporting middle/higher income earners, small business, retirees, in terms of tax policy.  Sounds easy but they managed to complete f*** it up with internal bickering and ideological b/s.


----------



## qldfrog (12 March 2019)

Nice summary Junior, as a result, Australia will find itself governed by default by labour, who will think itself plebiscited by the election score and the country will go backward another 10y again.
With 15y+ wasted at this stage of world economic changes and radical threads, i believe it will be the last straw.
Argentina and Chile have plenty of land, minerals and livestock production with low population too.
Welcome to the sisterhood of losers by incompetence and ideology


----------



## Darc Knight (12 March 2019)

qldfrog said:


> Nice summary Junior, as a result, Australia will find itself governed by default by labour, who will think itself plebiscited by the election score and the country will go backward another 10y again.
> With 15y+ wasted at this stage of world economic changes and radical threads, i believe it will be the last straw.
> Argentina and Chile have plenty of land, minerals and livestock production with low population too.
> Welcome to the sisterhood of losers by incompetence and ideology




Nicely argued point Frog, I hope you're wrong.

I think Bill needs to show his economic credentials as does any potential Labor government. Turnbull tried to show his (misdirected) social concience, look where that got him. Hopefully ScoMo can walk that tightrope having learnt from Turnbull's failure.


----------



## sptrawler (12 March 2019)

PZ99 said:


> Here you go... perfect illustration of Liberal Party definition of a wage "rise"
> 
> Tasmanian public sector workers have flagged full-day strikes after rejecting the state government's latest pay and conditions offer.
> 
> ...




Just for a bit of balance:
Here you go... perfect illustration of Labor Party definition of a wage "rise" 

W.A public sector workers are complaining about the $1,000 P/A maximum wage increase imposed by the Labor Government in 2017.
https://thewest.com.au/politics/sta...at-1000-by-premier-mark-mcgowan-ng-b88473920z

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/wa-unions-up-in-arms-over-wages-overhaul

The thing is I guess it is only an issue, if it involves the Liberal Party.


----------



## PZ99 (12 March 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Just for a bit of balance:
> Here you go... perfect illustration of Labor Party definition of a wage "rise"
> 
> W.A public sector workers are complaining about the $1,000 P/A maximum wage increase imposed by the Labor Government in 2017.
> ...



How much is that pay rise in terms of percentage?


----------



## sptrawler (12 March 2019)

PZ99 said:


> How much is that pay rise in terms of percentage?



Well I guess it depends what salary you are on, but back of the napkin, if you are on $100k it is 1%. Doesn't get much easier than that.
Just pointing out that the belief that it is only the Libs, that hit the workers, is nonsense. But it is a widely held belief, that allows Labor to get away with murder.


----------



## PZ99 (12 March 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Well I guess it depends what salary you are on, but back of the napkin, if you are on $100k it is 1%. Doesn't get much easier than that.



It gets even easier if you calculate it on a salary earner on $50K in which case it's 2%

And I know some entry level public sector workers in NSW that get even less than that.


----------



## PZ99 (12 March 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Just pointing out that the belief that it is only the Libs, that hit the workers, is nonsense. But it is a widely held belief, that allows Labor to get away with murder.



The reason Labor get away with murder is because it's the Liberal Party that continually puts itself up as the party with better wage growth policies than Labor which is what Josh Frydenberg has just done but historically the opposite is true.

It's a bit like Labor saying they'll never increase taxes when they usually do.


----------



## sptrawler (12 March 2019)

PZ99 said:


> The reason Labor get away with murder is because it's the Liberal Party that continually puts itself up as the party with better wage growth policies than Labor which is what Josh Frydenberg has just done but historically the opposite is true.
> 
> It's a bit like Labor saying they'll never increase taxes when they usually do.



Again from my perspective, during my working career, it was under Labor that I had both the biggest and smallest pay outcomes.
During Whitlam's reign I received the biggest proportional pay rise, and during Keatings reign I received the largest proportional fall, working in the same trade . So I guess it is all about experience.


----------



## PZ99 (12 March 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Again from my perspective, during my working career, it was under Labor that I had both the biggest and smallest pay outcomes.
> During Whitlam's reign I received the biggest proportional pay rise, and during Keatings reign I received the largest proportional fall, working in the same trade . So I guess it is all about experience.



No problem with that. I would say most were better off with Keating than Whitlam though given the horrendous inflation figures of the 70's.


----------



## sptrawler (12 March 2019)

PZ99 said:


> No problem with that. I would say most were better off with Keating than Whitlam though given the horrendous inflation figures of the 70's.



Actually no, the pay rises were so quick, that inflation lagged somewhat, so everyone was flush for a period of time. The interest rates only hit those who had large loans eg housing, as usual, everyone else had a "beano".
Under Keating, the dollar was floated, which halved it's relativity to the U.S dollar making things bloody expensive and the recession we had to have ensued.
The wages accord, resulted in an actual reduction in real wages of 18%.
Also company tax rates were cut massively, so the companies were doing great and unemployment fell.
So in reality everyone goes on about Keating being magic, well he was he had the union in his pocket and got away with murder.
Why do you think he only got one term?
The working man was screwed over to fix the economy, and funnily enough it is going to happen again. IMO
Living in a land of mushrooms IMO.


----------



## PZ99 (12 March 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Actually no, the pay rises were so quick, that inflation lagged somewhat, so everyone was flush for a period of time. The interest rates only hit those who had large loans eg housing, as usual, everyone else had a "beano".
> Under Keating, the dollar was floated, which halved it's relativity to the U.S dollar making things bloody expensive and the recession we had to have ensued.
> The wages accord, resulted in an actual reduction in real wages of 18%.
> Also company tax rates were cut massively, so the companies were doing great and unemployment fell.
> ...



I didn't vote for Keating ever for many reasons not least of which because the recession we had to have was dragged on for years at street level by ALP ineptitude.

The wages accord would have been a better deal for workers had it not been for the Liberal Party opposing every single wage rise under that accord. That's their lexicon I'm afraid.

But yeah, you'll never see me being overly positive about Keating. While it's true some of his reforms have put Australia in a better position overall today his handling of the economy on the day put a lot of people out of work and gave us a Govt debt that's even higher than today's figures as a percentage of GDP.  And that's _after_ selling the Witch Bank


----------



## sptrawler (12 March 2019)

PZ99 said:


> .
> 
> The wages accord would have been a better deal for workers had it not been for the Liberal Party opposing every single wage rise under that accord. That's their lexicon I'm afraid.



I may be wrong but from my memory, it had nothing to do with the Liberal Party, the accord agreed between the ACTU and Keating, linked pay rises to CPI, but in reality the rises never matched CPI and wages slid for years under the accord.
It would be nice to link the Libs to it, and the way history is re written these days, no doubt someone will.
Pay rises were automatic and couldn't be argued with, it had nothing to do with votes in parliament, from memory.
I know  my work place wanted to call a strike, and were told by the union official that if we did, we would be served with civil actions and no union backing.
I actually put down the Hawke/Keating years, as the biggining of the end for unions, workers became very disenfranchised and disillusioned.


----------



## explod (12 March 2019)

Keating had no alternative but float the our dollar due to trading economics at that time.  Though he had no tertiary qualifications was regarded as one of the best economists around the world.

"Great Treasurers need to be intuitive economic thinkers, to be sure. But they need to be great politicians, too. Keating was both. And that explains how he transformed the Australian economy in a remarkable and lasting fashion. And also why the one other significant economic reform of the last 30 years, the GST, eluded him.

But we should forgive Keating his GST inconsistency. The desire to implement one was driven by his economic genius, and the willingness to denounce it by his political genius. And without both of those things the Australian economy would not have undergone the revolution it did, that benefits us all to this day.

Was he a great Treasurer? That's a bit like asking whether Jack Nicklaus was a great golfer, or Margaret Court or Rod Laver great tennis players. They set the benchmark. They define the term. Of course he was.

_Richard Holden is a Professor of Economics at the University of New South Wales, Australian School of Business. View his full profile here."
_
"
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-20/holden-keating-legacy/5104990


----------



## sptrawler (12 March 2019)

No one is saying he didn't fix the economy, or he wasn't a good treasurer, I'm saying from a workers point of view he was $hit.
If a Liberal Party was in they would never have gotten away with it, I'm just calling it for what it was, from a workers perspective.
You can put the lipstick on it.

The other thing is, the latest Labor proposals, have Keating's stamp all over it and history will repeat. The workers will wake up, when it sinks in and they will be out again.lol
But alas, the damage will be done, Que sera.


----------



## wayneL (12 March 2019)

Junior said:


> You're right about that.
> 
> Malcolm was very popular with the public when he first took office.  If his party got behind him on just a few key issues, they would easily have been able to knock off Shorten this year.  Appease younger voters on climate change, SSM etc. and appease long term Liberal voters by supporting middle/higher income earners, small business, retirees, in terms of tax policy.  Sounds easy but they managed to complete f*** it up with internal bickering and ideological b/s.



Yep they ****ed it up alright. But I think you miscategorize the nature of the bickering.

I think the Liberal party base felt utterly betrayed by Mal and the red tories and that is reflected in both the schism and waning support. FWIW

Mal initially represented moderate conservatism,  but finally revealed himself an SJW social democrat.... as I predicted a few years ago.


----------



## Darc Knight (12 March 2019)

Labor got together with the ACTU and produced The Accord. Libs should get together with the big end of town and get some concessions to aid economic recovery.
Cmon Tony you muppet!


----------



## PZ99 (12 March 2019)

sptrawler said:


> I may be wrong but from my memory, it had nothing to do with the Liberal Party, the accord agreed between the ACTU and Keating, linked pay rises to CPI, but in reality the rises never matched CPI and wages slid for years under the accord.
> It would be nice to link the Libs to it, and the way history is re written these days, no doubt someone will.
> Pay rises were automatic and couldn't be argued with, it had nothing to do with votes in parliament, from memory.
> I know  my work place wanted to call a strike, and were told by the union official that if we did, we would be served with civil actions and no union backing.
> I actually put down the Hawke/Keating years, as the biggining of the end for unions, workers became very disenfranchised and disillusioned.



That's mostly correct off my memory but the payrises were set by the Arbitration Commission after proposals by the unions, business and the Govt... much like it is today with Fairwork.
Naturally the Liberal Party (particularly Howard) sided with business and were opposed to any rises citing their preferred individual workplace bargaining policies (80's era Workchoices).

That's my memory of it and happy to be corrected.


----------



## sptrawler (12 March 2019)

PZ99 said:


> That's mostly correct off my memory but the payrises were set by the Arbitration Commission after proposals by the unions, business and the Govt... much like it is today with Fairwork.
> Naturally the Liberal Party (particularly Howard) sided with business and were opposed to any rises citing their preferred individual workplace bargaining policies (80's era Workchoices).
> 
> That's my memory of it and happy to be corrected.



You might be right, but I thought the only inputs were unions (Kelty), bureau of stats and the Government which was Hawke/Keating.


----------



## Knobby22 (20 March 2019)

Pretty good announcement on immigration policy, winding back Abbott's big rise and encouraging settlement outside the major capitals.

Scomo is doing his best but it feels to me like much of the party isn't interested in helping him.


----------



## sptrawler (20 March 2019)

Knobby22 said:


> Pretty good announcement on immigration policy, winding back Abbott's big rise and encouraging settlement outside the major capitals.
> 
> Scomo is doing his best but it feels to me like much of the party isn't interested in helping him.



I think the election is a foregone conclusion and most pollies are getting ready for the exit.


----------



## PZ99 (20 March 2019)

NSW election on Saturday - I reckon the Libs will win it.

Then we have that monster federal budget 

Not over yet - The Howard Govt came back from a polling deficit similar to this.

But they'll probably need a bigger boat


----------



## sptrawler (20 March 2019)

PZ99 said:


> NSW election on Saturday - I reckon the Libs will win it.
> 
> Then we have that monster federal budget
> 
> ...




labor have played very well, to people's perceptions, interesting times.


----------



## wayneL (20 March 2019)

PZ99 said:


> NSW election on Saturday - I reckon the Libs will win it.
> 
> Then we have that monster federal budget
> 
> ...



Dunno,  I think many of their base feel betrayed and disenfranchised.

I will never vote Liberal in the Senate, ever again, and will only vote Liberal in the Reps if there is a slim chance of keeping the Postmodernist tw@ts out of Govt. Most of my friends feel the same. 

What puzzles me is why those whom Labor have completely forsaken in favour of smartarse academics, self loathing inner city trendies, and alphabet soupers, still vote for them.


----------



## basilio (23 March 2019)

ScoMo is coping a pasting. Jack Waterford strips him bare.

*Prime Minister's ever-diminishing credibility*
Jack WaterfordMarch 23, 2019 — 12.00am

Send via Email
"How do you know when a politician is lying?" the old joke went. "You see his lips are moving."

One rarely needs a polygraph, encyclopaedic memory or deep forensic talent to tell when most politicians are being economical with the _verite_. Some have big tells, which would forever disqualify them from a serious game of poker. Rates of eye blinking, for example. Shifts to bluster and dissembling, often prefaced by the claim of being very offended by any suggestion of being less than completely straightforward with the public, or the questioner. Running for cover, initial threats (quickly withdrawn) of defamation writs, and efforts to parse old, now embarrassing, statements in a search for a proposition that can be claimed to sit comfortably with diametrically opposing assertions of what was said or done.

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/po...-diminishing-credibility-20190322-p516hs.html


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## Tink (24 March 2019)




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## Logique (24 March 2019)

A good Premier justly re-elected. When she first went to school, she couldn't even speak English.

The state has the strongest economy in the country, and there are big infrastructure spends to come.  Watch NSW go now.


----------



## basilio (26 March 2019)

You could conceive of a worse way to undermine your Partys brand - but this has to be very hard to beat. Check it all.
 
* Q&A train wreck: Liberal Teena McQueen's debut goes from bad to worse *
Liberal party official claims Jacinda Ardern copied John Howard’s gun laws and Tony Jones warns her about potentially ‘defamatory’ remarks

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...l-teena-mcqueens-debut-goes-from-bad-to-worse


----------



## SirRumpole (26 March 2019)

basilio said:


> You could conceive of a worse way to undermine your Partys brand - but this has to be very hard to beat. Check it all.
> 
> * Q&A train wreck: Liberal Teena McQueen's debut goes from bad to worse *
> Liberal party official claims Jacinda Ardern copied John Howard’s gun laws and Tony Jones warns her about potentially ‘defamatory’ remarks
> ...




I thought she was a dill.


----------



## basilio (26 March 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> I thought she was a dill.



Liberal Party isn't impressed with her either..
Must be an election in the air...

*'She doesn't speak for us': Liberals disown Teena McQueen after Q&A appearance*
Latika BourkeMarch 26, 2019 — 7.22am

Send via Email
Senior Liberals are disowning the party's hard-right vice president Teena McQueen following her train wreck performance on the ABC's _Q&A _program.

It can also be revealed that the Liberal Party's most senior officials, including president Nick Greiner, had twice requested that she cease going on Sky's right-wing, after dark programs. But she refused, saying the money she received to appear in her capacity as a party official was too much to relinquish, according to sources familiar with the conversation.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...after-q-and-a-appearance-20190326-p517i3.html


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## sptrawler (26 March 2019)

basilio said:


> Liberal Party isn't impressed with her either..
> Must be an election in the air...




Yes, then when the Libs are out, you will be able to give your undivided attention to Trump.


----------



## basilio (26 March 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Yes, then when the Libs are out, you will be able to give your undivided attention to Trump.




Che ? You don't reckon that the train wreck of a Q&A  with Teena McQueen and the subsequent disowning by the Liberal Party is newsworthy ?


----------



## sptrawler (26 March 2019)

basilio said:


> Che ? You don't reckon that the train wreck of a Q&A  with Teena McQueen and the subsequent disowning by the Liberal Party is newsworthy ?



I don't know I don't watch it, just love your passion.
From what I've read, it would appear she is a serial train wreck, all Q & A have to do is wave a handfull of dollars then they get the show they want.


----------



## Smurf1976 (26 March 2019)

basilio said:


> the money she received to appear in her capacity as a party official was too much to relinquish



There in one sentence is most of the problem with our current batch of politicians on all sides.

In it for the money and nothing else. 

Politics is a case where the more you pay, the worse you get. If politicians were paid an average wage, and by that I mean the statistical average down to the cent, then it would get rid of these types and put a more normal range of people in parliament who actually represent the population.


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## PZ99 (27 March 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> There in one sentence is most of the problem with our current batch of politicians on all sides.
> 
> In it for the money and nothing else.
> 
> Politics is a case where the more you pay, the worse you get. If politicians were paid an average wage, and by that I mean the statistical average down to the cent, then it would get rid of these types and put a more normal range of people in parliament who actually represent the population.



Malcolm Turnbull didn't get any money and in fact came out negative.

He donated all his income to charity. And donated $1.75 million to the Liberal Party.

Then they knifed him. His pension? Well, that's another topic altogether


----------



## Tink (27 March 2019)

---

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/threads/is-shorten-pm-material.24690/page-61


----------



## Humid (27 March 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Yes, then when the Libs are out, you will be able to give your undivided attention to Trump.




When the Libs are out you can just continue to focus on Labor
Business as usual


----------



## sptrawler (27 March 2019)

PZ99 said:


> Malcolm Turnbull didn't get any money and in fact came out negative.
> 
> He donated all his income to charity. And donated $1.75 million to the Liberal Party.
> 
> Then they knifed him. His pension? Well, that's another topic altogether



Poor old Malcolm was just like losing a nice coach, everyone loved him, but he just couldn't get the results.
He meant well, struggled getting the message across and the players didn't have a lot of faith in his game plan.
Unfortunately that is the way of life, it happens to the Dockers all the time.


----------



## PZ99 (27 March 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Poor old Malcolm was just like losing a nice coach, everyone loved him, but he just couldn't get the results.
> He meant well, struggled getting the message across and the players didn't have a lot of faith in his game plan.
> Unfortunately that is the way of life, it happens to the Dockers all the time.



Wilson Tuckey playing for the Dockers would be a good analogue of Dutton / Abbott playing for the Turnbull Govt - with similar results


----------



## Smurf1976 (27 March 2019)

PZ99 said:


> Malcolm Turnbull didn't get any money and in fact came out negative.



Isn't that just reinforcing the point though?

Someone who seemed to be intelligent and not in it for the money found themselves as PM.

Didn't last long and the rest made sure of it.

Likewise the perception certainly of myself and a few friends who have given the idea some serious thought is that anyone who gave it a red hot go wouldn't last long in practice. The details are anyone's guess but one way or another you're not going to last long doing a good job.

It's like a heavily unionised boys club really. Anyone doing well makes the rest look bad and so needs to be removed or discredited ASAP and that's what happens.


----------



## explod (2 May 2019)

RESOURCES
REPORTS
*CLIMATE CUTS, COVER-UPS AND CENSORSHIP*

30.04.19BY CLIMATE COUNCIL
The Climate Council’s report, _‘Climate Cuts, Cover-Ups and Censorship’_ provides a detailed overview of the Australian government’s approach to climate change since the election of the Liberal-National Coalition government in 2013. The period is characterised by slashing climate science funding, cutting effective climate change programs, rejecting the expert advice of national and international bodies, senior ministers making publicly misleading claims, a lack of credible climate policy, and consistently covering up poor performance.

*This is the defining policy and leadership failure of the last decade.*

*DOWNLOAD THE REPORT*


----------



## explod (2 May 2019)

Images


Scott Morrison went against Treasury advice not to canvass government assistance to an electricity company part-owned by the coal investor and Liberal party donor Trevor St Baker, documents show.

Morrison announced in March that an upgrade of the Vales Point coal plant, owned by St Baker’s Delta Electricity, was one of 12 projects the government was considering underwriting with taxpayers’ funds.

Documents released under freedom of information show St Baker has lobbied the government for support since 2017, when Treasury officials advised Morrison, then the treasurer, against agreeing to his requests.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-reject-help-for-liberal-donors-power-company

According to a ministerial brief, St Baker and Delta director Brian Flannery met Malcolm Turnbull, the then prime minister, and Josh Frydenberg, the then energy minister, on 8 August 2017 and expressed their desire for continued investment in coal and a moratorium on support for renewable energy. They met Morrison the next day.

In a second brief on 20 September, before a planned visit by Morrison to Vales Point that ultimately did not go ahead, Treasury officials advised against “providing or hinting at providing any assistance to Delta” for Vales Point or any other electricity assets.


“Doing so would further encourage electricity generation companies to try and offset their private investment with public assistance,” it said.

The chief executive of the Australian Conservation Foundation, Kelly O’Shanassy, said Morrison should explain why he ignored Treasury’s advice when compiling the shortlist of projects that could receive taxpayer support. The meetings with St Baker came in a year in which his family trust donated $50,000 to the Liberal party.

“It’s disturbing that one rich coal baron is able to get this kind of access to the highest political offices and push his own self-interest at the expense of Australians and our safe climate,” she said.

A government spokesman did not respond directly when asked why Vales Point was included on the shortlist, but said the underwriting program followed a recommendation by the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission that it should support bankable investment by new players in generation capacity.

Delta Electricity*, *which is an established player in generation, has two projects on the shortlist – the Vales Point upgrade and a pumped hydro project at Lincoln Gap in South Australia. St Baker did not respond to a request for comment before publication.

An earlier batch of documents released under freedom of information show Delta Electricity also lobbied ministers for Vales Point to be allowed to receive taxpayer support from the government’s emissions reduction fund, the “direct action” climate scheme that Morrison has promised to spend another $2bn on if re-elected.

The coal upgrade project is registered with the fund but has been blocked by the Clean Energy Regulator from bidding for funding on the grounds the company had not provided enough information to show it should qualify.

The documents showed the environment minister, Melissa Price, requested a review of how the climate policy could be used to upgrade coal-fired power stations after being contacted by a consultant working on behalf of Delta Electricity. The consultant suggested the Clean Energy Regulator was discriminating against coal-fired electricity and said the company would consider taking the decision to the Administrative Appeals Tribunal if it was not overturned. The review, by the independent emissions reduction assurance committee, has yet to be completed.

Delta Electricity says the proposed Vales Point upgrade would reduce carbon dioxide emissions by 900,000 tonnes across a decade – about 1.3% of the plant’s emissions. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change found limiting global warming to 1.5C, a goal referred to in the 2015 Paris climate agreement, requires coal use for energy to fall between 59% and 78% by 2030 compared with 2010 levels.

St Baker’s Sunset Power International, which trades as Delta Electricity, bought Vales Point from the NSW government in 2015 for $1m.

Two years later it was revalued at $730m. Last year it reported a net profit of $113m. St Baker has proposed extending its operation beyond its expected closure date of 2029 to 2049.


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## basilio (3 May 2019)

This is the spot for 
*An Honest Government  Ad on Climate Change*
https://www.thejuicemedia.com/honest-government-ad-climate-breakdown/


----------



## Smurf1976 (4 May 2019)

explod said:


> Scott Morrison went against Treasury advice not to canvass government assistance to an electricity company part-owned by the coal investor and Liberal party donor Trevor St Baker, documents show.



Worth noting that this company is the only operator of coal-fired power generation in NSW or Vic that seems keen on further investment into it.

AGL, Alinta, Energy Australia and Origin Energy are the other coal-fired power station operators in these states and all are all going in the opposite direction with publicly released plans to exit coal altogether.


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## qldfrog (4 May 2019)

Seeing it in a different way, with all the majors exiting coal for both economic and PR reasons, a small unknown company can easily position itself as the last coal based provider, and keep a niche whereas providing cheap base power for the day the wind and sun are out, and make a killing in the process
Maybe?
Technically coal is not dead and has a place in Australia.not that i support
Should be gas in my opinion but we f.u that one in a major way and will be too expensive in the coming decades to provide cheap base load...
One funny aspect with energy is that all that planning political fight etc could be turned on its head should mythical fusion reactors be achieved and provide limitless cheap clean energy.
A bit like driverless cars
Innovation is not gradual
The only trouble with fusion illimited green power is that it will unmask the global warming lunacy and reveal the real environmental priorities..
Fusion will not save the planet


----------



## rederob (4 May 2019)

qldfrog said:


> A bit like driverless cars



We already have driverless cars!


qldfrog said:


> ...it will unmask the global warming lunacy and reveal the real environmental priorities..



You keep making statements like this, but have never been able to provide any evidence to suggest you know what you are talking about.


qldfrog said:


> Fusion will not save the planet



Except all our planet's received energy is from the sun.
The coal and gas we have relied on came about due to fusion from the sun.
Fusion saves our planet every day.


----------



## drsmith (22 May 2019)

With Tony Abbott now out of the parliament, it will hopefully be easier to unite the party on energy and climate policy.

At this stage, I don't care if it's the current policy settings or something different, as long as the party is united. That will provide the soundest foundation from which to compete with Labor/Greens in this policy area at the next election.


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## jbocker (22 May 2019)

drsmith said:


> With Tony Abbott now out of the parliament, it will hopefully be easier to unite the party on energy and climate policy.
> 
> At this stage, I don't care if it's the current policy settings or something different, as long as the party is united. That will provide the soundest foundation from which to compete with Labor/Greens in this policy area at the next election.




Very well said.
It is clear ScoMo has more trust of the public than any other current or past politician for quite some time. He better respect that. I think it would be wise to lead this country to far better energy policy and get some movement on dealing with changes to climate/environment policy. It is time to get cracking on the tough tasks. Abbott gone  is a message in part that the public are real on these matters.


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## sptrawler (22 May 2019)

drsmith said:


> With Tony Abbott now out of the parliament, it will hopefully be easier to unite the party on energy and climate policy.
> 
> At this stage, I don't care if it's the current policy settings or something different, as long as the party is united. That will provide the soundest foundation from which to compete with Labor/Greens in this policy area at the next election.



I agree with you Doc.
I think Morrison will have everyone falling in behind him, with Tony Abbott gone the media will lack the ready made food to fill the tabloids and there really isn't any obvious power brokers left in the LNP to white ant him.
So IMO, Morrison will thrive or die, by his own sword.


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## Smurf1976 (22 May 2019)

jbocker said:


> I think it would be wise to lead this country to far better energy policy and get some movement on dealing with changes to climate/environment policy. It is time to get cracking on the tough tasks.



On the question of energy I will simply say that "energy" is a problem regardless of what we do about the "climate / environment" aspects relating to it.

I say that without meaning to diminish the environmental aspects, but energy itself would still be a problem even without those issues.

It hasn't been publicly announced so far as I'm aware so I won't give the details but there was what I'll describe as an "incident" at a major power station in the early hours of Saturday morning this week. An incident of the sort that has the owners currently projecting a return to operation of that generating unit in September although that's an estimate not a guarantee.

It's pure good luck with the timing that it isn't during Summer (peak demand season) and that we can _probably_ get through winter without it putting the lights out although the risk isn't zero there and it depends on the weather and what else goes wrong.

There's a need for urgent action with all this after an extended period of neglect. What we've got right now is a set of infrastructure that's underrated for the task even if it were new, but in practice is increasingly old and fragile and being patched up. 

There's a need to get on with this ASAP.


----------



## jbocker (22 May 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> On the question of energy I will simply say that "energy" is a problem regardless of what we do about the "climate / environment" aspects relating to it.
> 
> I say that without meaning to diminish the environmental aspects, but energy itself would still be a problem even without those issues.
> 
> ...



I was meaning that both there matters are quite separate. To try to deal with both as a single policy is way too complex. Continuing Energy in its current forms is a huge problem in itself. Climate / environment I mean to manage things like our waterways How do we set up infrastructure to use nature to supply and transport energy in the future. How do we recover from the various types of wastelands. There is so much to address and it takes leadership to get that thinking happening and then management to get it to action.


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## Smurf1976 (22 May 2019)

jbocker said:


> I was meaning that both there matters are quite separate. To try to deal with both as a single policy is way too complex.



Agreed - I’m just stressing the urgency really since we’re having far too many “near miss” sort of incidents, and we’ve actually had load shedding twice this year so far, and if we keep going like this then at some point it’s going to end badly.

The details of that are hard to predict but there’s a limit to how much good luck there will be with timing and the weather and there’s a limit to how long some of this stuff can keep being patched up. Do nothing and at some point we end up with a crisis.


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## SirRumpole (11 June 2019)

Liberal MP wants power to break up big business.

This will be interesting.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-economy-wide-power-to-break-up-big-companies


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## sptrawler (11 June 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Liberal MP wants power to break up big business.
> 
> This will be interesting.
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-economy-wide-power-to-break-up-big-companies



Energy is a lot different to most other goods, it requires a lot of infrastructure to get it to the purchaser, whereas most other non essential goods the purchaser goes to get them.
So in reality electricity, water and sewage, which are essentials, should be left in Government hands. If you aren't going to do that, you will need a big stick to make them upgrade and renew aging infrastructure, that doesn't add to revenue.
Telstra and the NBN is an example of something that should have been left in Government hands, the tax payer had to replace and upgrade the infrastructure anyway, for no financial benefit to them, only to the new private owners gained from it.
We are not going to maintain a first World lifestyle, with a third World mentality.


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## Logique (11 June 2019)

How typical of Pauline Hanson to say "..at this stage" she doesn't support the tax cuts.

One Nation may have plenty of support in QLD, but so did the Xylophone party in SA.


----------



## Knobby22 (17 July 2019)

ScoMo has been quiet.
Due to fortune he has the ability to reboot the government.
I hope the lack of noise means he is busy developing policies and vision.  

We may need a great leader in the next few years and we seem to find them when required in the lucky country.


----------



## SirRumpole (17 July 2019)

Knobby22 said:


> ScoMo has been quiet.
> Due to fortune he has the ability to reboot the government.
> I hope the lack of noise means he is busy developing policies and vision.
> 
> We may need a great leader in the next few years and we seem to find them when required in the lucky country.




I wouldn't hold you breath Knobby.

Conservatives aren't great visionaries or reformers.

What vision did we get out of 11 years of Howard ?

Mediocre accountants at best.


----------



## sptrawler (17 July 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> I wouldn't hold you breath Knobby.
> 
> Conservatives aren't great visionaries or reformers.
> 
> ...



Well Rumpy the future fund, which is paying the public servants super bill, comes to mind. Also don't forget, Howard/Costello spent most of their time in office, paying off the debt, the previous Labor Government had racked up.

Then came Rudd.
We got plenty of vision out of two terms of Labor, shame it was all cloudy. 
Pink Batts?
NBN stuff up, start at the least populated places and work in?
School halls?
$1,000 cheques out the window, at least a tax cut is progressive.
Real visionary stuff, sounds great on a napkin.


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## SirRumpole (17 July 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Well Rumpy the future fund, which is paying the public servants super bill, comes to mind.
> We got plenty of vision out of two terms of Labor, shame it was all cloudy.
> Pink Batts?
> NBN stuff up, start at the least populated places and work in?
> ...




Nothing wrong with the idea of pink batts. Provides employment and insulates houses . Just because a few contractors stuffed up, all the blame seemed to go back to Labor for obviously political reasons.

As for the NBN. Was it needed ? Of course it was. We were getting left behind other countries that could utilise broadband for private and business purposes. Was it ever discussed in the 11 years of Howard ? 

Nah, Invest money on something of national importance ? What about the deficit, shock horror.

If Howard was still in we would be falling further behind in Internet communications.


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## sptrawler (17 July 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Nothing wrong with the idea of pink batts. Provides employment and insulates houses . Just because a few contractors stuffed up, all the blame seemed to go back to Labor for obviously political reasons.
> 
> As for the NBN. Was it needed ? Of course it was. We were getting left behind other countries that could utilise broadband for private and business purposes. Was it ever discussed in the 11 years of Howard ?
> 
> ...




Nothing wrong with Labor's ideas, as always it is the lack of planning and poor implementation, that brings them down.
What is the old saying PPP=PPP
pi$$ poor planning=pi$$ poor result.
NBN as we said on here at the time, if it had been driven by a business plan, rather than a social agenda, the outcome may have been achievable.


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## Humid (17 July 2019)

Compare Howards war on Iraq to the pink bats in cost and deaths


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## Smurf1976 (17 July 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Energy is a lot different to most other goods, it requires a lot of infrastructure to get it to the purchaser, whereas most other non essential goods the purchaser goes to get them.
> So in reality electricity, water and sewage, which are essentials, should be left in Government hands. If you aren't going to do that, you will need a big stick to make them upgrade and renew aging infrastructure, that doesn't add to revenue.



Private can do it under the right circumstances.

Adjusted for inflation AGL charged less for gas as a monopoly, as they were for most of the company's existence, than the same company now charges the same customers in a competitive market.

That competition leads to lower prices is widely accepted but in practice true only if the loss of economies of scale are less than the benefits of added competitive tension which, in the energy sector, generally isn't the case.

Same happened with LPG in Tasmania. The price under a competitive market is around 50% higher in real terms than when the now defunct Gas Corporation of Tas, which was privately owned as an offshoot of Boral and in no way part of government, had a monopoly.

Economic theories, like most things, are valid under some circumstances but not all. Where the "competition drives lower prices" one fails is with things which have high scale of economy aspects and as we both know gas and electricity are the ultimate examples of that hence the issue causing so much angst.

The surest way to stuff anything up is to be wedded to an ideology and to keep going with it when it's clearly not working.


----------



## SirRumpole (17 July 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> Private can do it under the right circumstances.
> 
> Adjusted for inflation AGL charged less for gas as a monopoly, as they were for most of the company's existence, than the same company now charges the same customers in a competitive market.
> 
> ...




There is certainly a role for private enterprise in the electricity sector, but not one so large that we can't afford them to pull out if the going gets tough for them like Hazelwood for instance.

A properly regulated system would not allow that asset to be closed unless an equivalent capacity was already in place. Some may argue that capacity was provided by rooftop solar, but it's not comparable as solar does not provide baseload.

So privates are good for things like batteries, wind farms, gas stations, but not for long term hydro or (shudder) nuclear reactors if we ever get that far. I also can't see any advantage in corporations owning long term assets like the poles and wires instead of State government or even councils. These are basically monopolies and would be better off in public ownership imv..


----------



## Smurf1976 (17 July 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> There is certainly a role for private enterprise in the electricity sector, but not one so large that we can't afford them to pull out if the going gets tough for them like Hazelwood for instance.



If a single company owned Hazelwood and all the others, and was formally responsible for keeping the lights on and subject to regulatory oversight of reliability and price, then they'd also have taken a very different approach to it all and wouldn't be doing technically silly or unnecessarily expensive things.

Whether such a company is in private hands or government doesn't make a huge difference, apart from the cost of capital perhaps, if it's subject to regulation as to what it must achieve.

30 years ago we had government owned gas in some states and privately owned gas in others both operating on the same model of an integrated utility running the whole show. Apart from the issue of who received the profits it was the same business model beyond that and there was no practical divide between those who were government owned versus private. Eg gas fitters working for AGL in Sydney carried technical manuals written by a government owned gas company in Victoria. Likewise most of them ran the same TV advertising, government and private alike, with the only change being to add the relevant company name at the end. Etc. Private or government they both ran it the same way and took responsibility for everything involved indeed it wasn't unknown for technical staff to be borrowed between the companies to assist with projects or if problems arose and that included between government and private companies.

It's more about the structure and regulations surrounding it than who the ultimate owner is so long as there's only one of them. Once it's all split up, and nobody's actually responsible, well then it's a mess yes.


----------



## Humid (18 July 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Well Rumpy the future fund, which is paying the public servants super bill, comes to mind. Also don't forget, Howard/Costello spent most of their time in office, paying off the debt, the previous Labor Government had racked up.
> 
> Then came Rudd.
> We got plenty of vision out of two terms of Labor, shame it was all cloudy.
> ...




Visionary lol
Netflix is killing the libs version of the NBN
Hows that for some cut price future proofing 
The cost of a one of payment vs
Tax cut forever 
Mind boggling


----------



## PZ99 (24 July 2019)

Looks like the Coalition have finally woken up to the elephant in the room over wage theft.

Well done - it's been pissing me off for years.
_
Coalition set to criminalise wage theft as it pushes on with union integrity bill...

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...eft-as-it-pushes-on-with-union-integrity-bill
_


----------



## sptrawler (24 July 2019)

PZ99 said:


> Looks like the Coalition have finally woken up to the elephant in the room over wage theft.
> 
> Well done - it's been pissing me off for years.



Yes there is a lot of weird things that happen in work places, my daughter works permanent part time, Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and one Saturday a month. 
When a public holiday falls on her work day, she has to work back the hours at a later date(usually over Christmas).
The other thing I found strange, when she had her last baby, the EBA she works under they had negotiated maternity leave down to two weeks(mostly old women in the work place).


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## PZ99 (24 July 2019)

EBA looks illegal to me. Employees are entitled to more than 2 weeks of maternity leave ?



Spoiler: Employers role with Parental Leave Pay



It’s up to your employee to apply for Parental Leave Pay through us and negotiate leave arrangements with you. To get Parental Leave Pay, your employee must be on paid or unpaid leave.

We’ll contact you if you’re required to provide Parental Leave Pay to an employee. We’ll also provide the necessary Paid Parental Leave funds to you.

As an employer, you must provide Parental Leave Pay to an eligible employee who:


has a newborn or recently adopted child
has worked for you for at least 12 months before the expected date of birth or adoption
will be your employee until at least the end of their Paid Parental Leave period
is Australian based, and
is expected to receive at least 8 weeks of Parental Leave Pay.




https://www.humanservices.gov.au/or...employers/what-you-need-know/your-role-scheme


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## sptrawler (24 July 2019)

PZ99 said:


> EBA looks illegal to me. Employees are entitled to more than 2 weeks of maternity leave ?



Yes, it was 4 years ago, I would actually love to find out if the conditions she has are legal, however the daughter doesn't want me to get involved.


----------



## PZ99 (29 July 2019)

Coalition wins its first Newspoll in 150 years: 53 to 47 per cent 
	

		
			
		

		
	







https://www.news.com...1aeedc8cbac09ac


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## SirRumpole (29 July 2019)

PZ99 said:


> Coalition wins its first Newspoll in 150 years: 53 to 47 per cent
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Wake me up at the next election.


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## PZ99 (31 July 2019)

PZ99 said:


> Not really. But 9 months* is a long time in politics. Mark Latham/ALP had a fair lead over the Howard Govt before it all went to dust. The amount of negativity from the ALP will cost them if they don't start presenting an alternative Govt.



11 months later and Albo is reiterating the above.

Impartial partial quote >  "The caucus debate came as Albanese used Tuesday’s meeting to tell colleagues the opposition has washed up post-election in a parliamentary position not unlike the position Labor faced in 2004, when Mark Latham lost the election against John Howard, and the Coalition gained control of the Senate."

Tip for Albo - you gotta get it right _before_ the election


----------



## moXJO (31 July 2019)

PZ99 said:


> 11 months later and Albo is reiterating the above.
> 
> Impartial partial quote >  "The caucus debate came as Albanese used Tuesday’s meeting to tell colleagues the opposition has washed up post-election in a parliamentary position not unlike the position Labor faced in 2004, when Mark Latham lost the election against John Howard, and the Coalition gained control of the Senate."
> 
> Tip for Albo - you gotta get it right _before_ the election



Labor seems missing in action these days. Albo disappeared after the John Setka blow up. He needs to watch out he doesn't do a Kim Beazley.


----------



## SirRumpole (31 July 2019)

Labor ran a positive election (to their credit) and it cost them.

I wouldn't blame them for going negative, it worked for Abbott for enough time to win him an election.

If the economic manure hits the propellor for the next three years then Labor are a good chance.


----------



## moXJO (31 July 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Labor ran a positive election (to their credit) and it cost them.
> 
> I wouldn't blame them for going negative, it worked for Abbott for enough time to win him an election.
> 
> If the economic manure hits the propellor for the next three years then Labor are a good chance.



They ran a bad campaign. Positive will win if its not as terrible as what shorten ran with.
 His timing of tax hits when people are already doing it tough was just out of touch.


----------



## sptrawler (2 August 2019)

moXJO said:


> They ran a bad campaign. Positive will win if its not as terrible as what shorten ran with.
> His timing of tax hits when people are already doing it tough was just out of touch.



I think this quote from Kim Carr sums it up well.
_"Labor failed because its messaging essentially appealed to affluent voters rather than to the blue-collar voters who provide — though not as strongly as was once the case — its core support, and who typically decide federal election outcomes," Mr Carr says.

"We paid insufficient attention to the anxieties and insecurities that working-class families have about the future," he writes.

"We lost the trust of too many of our own people, while paradoxically winning the trust of many voters in seats that have long been Liberal heartland_".

There is nothing the rich like more, than to tell everyone they care and vote Labor, while they smugly sip chardonnay on the balcony and watch the sun set over the water.


----------



## Logique (2 August 2019)

The ScoMo government lost some political capital over refusing to increase Newstart, imho. There was no such inertia when it was the pollies turn for a pay increase earlier in the year, and they got '000s.

Everyone got a pay rise, one way or another with the tax cuts.  Even a (small) reduction the deeming rate. But on the lowest rung Newstart ..._No Soup for You!_

You could have given them _something_ ScoMo and Josh. Pretty poor effort Coalition, flint-hearted.

Labor's franking credit proposal was wrong. But The Coalition's stingyness on Newstart is equally wrong.


----------



## sptrawler (2 August 2019)

Logique said:


> The ScoMo government lost some political capital over refusing to increase Newstart, imho. There was no such inertia when it was the pollies turn for a pay increase earlier in the year, and they got '000s.
> 
> Everyone got a pay rise, one way or another with the tax cuts.  Even a (small) reduction the deeming rate. But on the lowest rung Newstart ..._No Soup for You!_
> 
> ...



It is a shame there isn't a way around giving an allowance, I think it would be better if they somehow could provide accommodation, food and a warm safe place to be where services are provided, that help them gain skills and employment.
To just give people, who are probably depressed, struggling with self esteem and suffering from anxiety, money and expecting them to be able to work their way out of the problem is a bit unrealistic. IMO
It is a bit of a cleft stick at the moment, you give more money and make life more comfortable, the chance of people wanting to find employment may drop.(It isn't as though there are no jobs out there, many can't be filled).
Yet with constantly increasing cost of living, there has to be enough of a payment to be able to survive, I have this discussion with my long term unemployed son all the time.
There isn't an easy answer, that is for sure.


----------



## chiff (2 August 2019)

sptrawler said:


> It is a shame there isn't a way around giving an allowance, I think it would be better if they somehow could provide accommodation, food and a warm safe place to be where services are provided, that help them gain skills and employment.
> To just give people, who are probably depressed, struggling with self esteem and suffering from anxiety, money and expecting them to be able to work their way out of the problem is a bit unrealistic. IMO
> It is a bit of a cleft stick at the moment, you give more money and make life more comfortable, the chance of people wanting to find employment may drop.(It isn't as though there are no jobs out there, many can't be filled).
> Yet with constantly increasing cost of living, there has to be enough of a payment to be able to survive, I have this discussion with my long term unemployed son all the time.
> There isn't an easy answer, that is for sure.



Although I agree with most of what you say there has to be a living payment-something to survive on.I know Scandinavian countries care more about their citizens.As a rich country we can afford it.Newstart should not be a punishment.


----------



## sptrawler (2 August 2019)

chiff said:


> Although I agree with most of what you say there has to be a living payment-something to survive on.I know Scandinavian countries care more about their citizens.As a rich country we can afford it.Newstart should not be a punishment.



I was lucky enough to visit Norway recently Chiff, check out their tax system, I know you wouldn't be drinking on their welfare, 3 beers and a glass of red $90 Australian.
It will have to sorted one way or another, but no matter how much money you give people, unless they manage it well, they will be just as poor.
I suppose the question is what level should newstart be? The same as the age pension?
Or adequate to live comfortably? Without requiring to work?
If it is enough to rent a house in Sydney, buy food, pay the electricity for cooking and heating, buy clothes run a car. What would that be?


----------



## Humid (3 August 2019)

sptrawler said:


> It is a shame there isn't a way around giving an allowance, I think it would be better if they somehow could provide accommodation, food and a warm safe place to be where services are provided, that help them gain skills and employment.
> To just give people, who are probably depressed, struggling with self esteem and suffering from anxiety, money and expecting them to be able to work their way out of the problem is a bit unrealistic. IMO
> It is a bit of a cleft stick at the moment, you give more money and make life more comfortable, the chance of people wanting to find employment may drop.(It isn't as though there are no jobs out there, many can't be filled).
> Yet with constantly increasing cost of living, there has to be enough of a payment to be able to survive, I have this discussion with my long term unemployed son all the time.
> There isn't an easy answer, that is for sure.




So you were made redundant and retired early due to the fact that there were plenty of jobs out there
Pot and kettle springs to mind


----------



## SirRumpole (3 August 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Yet with constantly increasing cost of living, there has to be enough of a payment to be able to survive, I have this discussion with my long term unemployed son all the time.
> There isn't an easy answer, that is for sure.




The assumption seems to be that the majority of people on Newstart are young, healthy, single & childless  and ready to start work at the drop of a hat anywhere in the country.

What we really need is more granular data and if we had it I think we would find a large proportion of Newstarters are older and/or have family responsibilities and for whom picking up and moving everything would be a substantial stress.

On another thread somewhere I quoted an article that said that 80% of jobs created in the last 12 months were in the public sector.

Maybe governments could show some compassion and give some of those jobs to people who really need them like older workers and those with families and let the young and single be catered for by the gig economy.


----------



## chiff (3 August 2019)

sptrawler said:


> I was lucky enough to visit Norway recently Chiff, check out their tax system, I know you wouldn't be drinking on their welfare, 3 beers and a glass of red $90 Australian.
> It will have to sorted one way or another, but no matter how much money you give people, unless they manage it well, they will be just as poor.
> I suppose the question is what level should newstart be? The same as the age pension?
> Or adequate to live comfortably? Without requiring to work?
> If it is enough to rent a house in Sydney, buy food, pay the electricity for cooking and heating, buy clothes run a car. What would that be?



I will expose myself-I am of Norwegian heritage,my father died in Norway.I have nephews in Norway and other relatives.I have never bought an alcoholic drink in Norway because the cost is prohibitive.One of my nephew's sons is on welfare-pensioned off an early age.One area where  they live cheaper is housing-much cheaper.Except for Oslo and maybe a few of the other larger cities -
those around a  200,000 inhabitants-a house on ,or very near, a fjord would be around 100k-basic food -bread and cheese is comparable to here.Electricity(hydro) is much cheaper,as is internet.If you are lucky enough to live near the Swedish border supplies are cheaper there with the EU closer.Having said all that,I am quite happy where I am....I think we have it better.For those on Newstart I do not believe that is the case.


----------



## chiff (4 August 2019)

A few detrimental expensive facts about Norway-when last there about three years ago
A kebab fourteen dollars.Petrol roughly twice the price of OZ,they sell 95 and 98 unleaded only whenever we filled up.Our $40 large pizza was a bit expensive-but I cannot remember having a better one.If you must dine out try to see where the pensioners go.A ferry ride across a fjord with your vehicle is expensive...only rivaled by  the ferry to Kangaroo  Island.


----------



## sptrawler (5 August 2019)

The Government is going to build a fabrication plant in Queensland, to produce Army reconnaissance vehicle's, at last hooray rather than buy in military equipment that could be produced here.
_The *Morrison Government* will keep Australians safe with an unprecedented investment in our *Army* including: A $5.2 billion project to *build* over 200 new Boxer Combat Reconnaissance *Vehicles* in Queensland and creating 1,450 jobs_ .


----------



## SirRumpole (5 August 2019)

sptrawler said:


> The Government is going to build a fabrication plant in Queensland, to produce Army reconnaissance vehicle's, at last hooray rather than buy in military equipment that could be produced here.
> _The *Morrison Government* will keep Australians safe with an unprecedented investment in our *Army* including: A $5.2 billion project to *build* over 200 new Boxer Combat Reconnaissance *Vehicles* in Queensland and creating 1,450 jobs_ .




This is the device in question.



Looks good.


----------



## IFocus (5 August 2019)

Is war on the cards here? Wonder what the cost is in terms of our commitment when the shooting starts?

*Australia looks to access US fuel reserves to shore up supplies amid Persian Gulf tensions*


*Australia is eyeing off the United States' tightly guarded fuel reserve as it seeks to overcome having less than a third of the stocks it should.

Key points:

Australia has less than a third of the fuel supplies it is required to under an international agreements
Defence Minister Linda Reynolds said the Coalition was eyeing off America's tightly guarded reserves
It comes as Australia considers sending vessels to the Persian Gulf amid escalating tension
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-05/australia-looks-to-buy-us-oil-amid-reserve-concerns/11384196


It comes as Australia contemplates sending vessels to the oil-rich Persian Gulf amid escalating tension on the Strait of Hormuz.

Australia holds just 28 days' worth of fuel imports, 
*


----------



## SirRumpole (5 August 2019)

IFocus said:


> Is war on the cards here? Wonder what the cost is in terms of our commitment when the shooting starts?
> 
> *Australia looks to access US fuel reserves to shore up supplies amid Persian Gulf tensions*
> 
> ...




Another bleak reason why our politicians are the incompetent oafs we always suspected they were.

Letting our reserves get to a disastrously low level in the first place shows that they aren't up to running the country

I don't agree all that much with Jim Moylan, but he was warning about this years ago.


----------



## sptrawler (5 August 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Another bleak reason why our politicians are the incompetent oafs we always suspected they were.
> 
> Letting our reserves get to a disastrously low level in the first place shows that they aren't up to running the country
> 
> I don't agree all that much with Jim Moylan, but he was warning about this years ago.



How long has smurf being going on about it?


----------



## SirRumpole (6 August 2019)

Is the government finally seeing sense about a gas reservation policy ?

Maybe but they are doing it very slowly, like they won't be making any decision until 2021. 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-06/federal-government-to-consider-domestic-gas-reserve/11385596


----------



## Smurf1976 (6 August 2019)

sptrawler said:


> How long has smurf being going on about it?



I claim no special brilliance, just an awareness of history and the ability to identify risk.

For a major oil disruption the consequences are in the "catastrophic" category since it disables large sections of the economy and, in a worst case, that extends to disabling emergency services, food production, utilities and the military. At the very least it would almost certainly put the economy into recession.

The probability of such an occurrence is "plausible" given that the circumstances which lead to a disruption of imports has happened before and there are credible scenarios under which it could happen again.

Putting those together and we have a plausible catastrophe.

Anything of that nature warrants attention and in that context Australia with its 28 days' reserves falls a very long way short of the 90+ days maintained by every other developed country and which we agreed to maintain 40 years ago. In the past we also had far greater levels of domestic oil production and refining and considerably lower consumption but now we're massively exposed.

That puts Australia as the most obvious sitting duck in the entire world so far as this one is concerned.


----------



## sptrawler (6 August 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Is the government finally seeing sense about a gas reservation policy ?
> 
> Maybe but they are doing it very slowly, like they won't be making any decision until 2021.
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-06/federal-government-to-consider-domestic-gas-reserve/11385596




Because it wasn't introduced early in the LNG development phase, it becomes difficult to credibly introduce it retrospectively, a bit of the old sovereign risk thing.
Companies should have certainty as to how their investment is treated, but it was crazy for the East Coast not to follow W.A's lead when it was introduced here, now it becomes an issue because it in effect is nationalising some of their investment and profit.
Unfortunately in reality it has to be done, especially if they are going to commence fraking and uncover 'new' sources of gas, that haven't been contracted for sale.
Just my opinion.


----------



## SirRumpole (6 August 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Because it wasn't introduced early in the LNG development phase, it becomes difficult to credibly introduce it retrospectively, a bit of the old sovereign risk thing.
> Companies should have certainty as to how their investment is treated, but it was crazy for the East Coast not to follow W.A's lead when it was introduced here, now it becomes an issue because it in effect is nationalising some of their investment and profit.
> Unfortunately in reality it has to be done, especially if they are going to commence fraking and uncover 'new' sources of gas, that haven't been contracted for sale.
> Just my opinion.




Companies have to accept that governments change in democracies and sometimes things happen that might reduce some of their investment's earning potential.

As Australia is the only gas exporting country not to have a reservation policy, companies must have realised it had to happen sooner or later.


----------



## sptrawler (6 August 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Companies have to accept that governments change in democracies and sometimes things happen that might reduce some of their investment's earning potential.
> 
> As Australia is the only gas exporting country not to have a reservation policy, companies must have realised it had to happen sooner or later.



It has to happen, if they want to replace coal generation in the short term, also I guess it will put a bit of a flame under the fracking issue. IMO


----------



## basilio (6 August 2019)

So the US wants to start a shooting war with Iran that would almost certainly disrupt international oil sales.
They want Oz to  show its hand and demonstrate its support .

*And meanwhile we have FA oil supplies in Australia and will be practically paralysed within a few weeks of disruption. *Crackers...


----------



## Humid (6 August 2019)

And then it dawned on them that their cars dont run on franking credits


----------



## bellenuit (6 August 2019)

Humid said:


> And then it dawned on them that their cars dont run on franking credits




For many a retiree they do.


----------



## Humid (6 August 2019)

Catch a bus 
Got plenty of time


----------



## basilio (23 August 2019)

It will be interesting to see how Old Age Pensioners and their families respond to the prospect of  arbitrary BS robo debts being generated by Centre Link and having to somehow "disprove" their liability. Could be some very serious conversations  between constituents and  back benchers I think.

* Robodebt could target pensioners and 'sensitive' groups, leaked documents show *
Exclusive: Coalition needs to include over 65s and other disadvantaged welfare recipients to hit $600m budget plan

The Morrison government could target thousands of pensioners and other “sensitive” welfare recipients under a proposed expansion of the controversial robodebt scheme needed to achieve a promised $2.1bn in budget savings, according to confidential documents seen by Guardian Australia.

The documents, stamped “PROTECTED CABINET”, show the scheme would fall $600m short of its required budget savings unless it is expanded to hit “sensitive” groups originally quarantined from data matching.

This would include people considered “sensitive” by the department: those aged 65 and over, those living in remote areas, and others considered vulnerable by Centrelink, including people who are homeless and those who have disabilities.

“Estimated savings over the forward estimates cannot be achieved without undertaking sensitive cohort reviews,” says the early draft ministerial submission for the government services minister, Stuart Robert.

According to the documents, the department would need to carry out an additional 1.6m income reviews over the next three years to reach the promised savings, including 350,000 debt-recovery reviews among “sensitive” or vulnerable groups.
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-pensioners-sensitive-groups-leaked-documents


----------



## SirRumpole (23 August 2019)

basilio said:


> It will be interesting to see how Old Age Pensioners and their families respond to the prospect of  arbitrary BS robo debts being generated by Centre Link and having to somehow "disprove" their liability. Could be some very serious conversations  between constituents and  back benchers I think.
> 
> * Robodebt could target pensioners and 'sensitive' groups, leaked documents show *
> Exclusive: Coalition needs to include over 65s and other disadvantaged welfare recipients to hit $600m budget plan
> ...




I guess they are banking on the fact that a lot of old people have memory problems and they will forget this stuff by the next election.


----------



## basilio (23 August 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> I guess they are banking on the fact that a lot of old people have memory problems and they will forget this stuff by the next election.




Possibly..  But IMV if they or their families start dealing  with the trumped up rubbish that the Robo debt  processes delivered to New Start recipients there will be some very concerned back benchers.

Just make up a "debt". Send it out. Demand that the recipient disprove the debt (how exactly ?) or otherwise pay it or they send in the debt collectors. 

Delightful way to win friends and influence people -  not..

Personally I just think the most appropriate response is a piece  of 4x2


----------



## SirRumpole (23 August 2019)

basilio said:


> Possibly..  But IMV if they or their families start dealing  with the trumped up rubbish that the Robo debt  processes delivered to New Start recipients there will be some very concerned back benchers.
> 
> Just make up a "debt". Send it out. Demand that the recipient disprove the debt (how exactly ?) or otherwise pay it or they send in the debt collectors.
> 
> ...




I wonder if Tim Wilson will hold an enquiry into it ?


----------



## basilio (23 August 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> I wonder if Tim Wilson will hold an enquiry into it ?



Very nice...
*Far more likely* there will  be a very rigorous inquiry into who leaked the proposal.


----------



## sptrawler (23 August 2019)

I thought I was the one with 'conspiracy theory' paranoia. 

Obviously not enough happening, on the climate change front.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...re-anniversaries-to-come-20190822-p52jum.html


----------



## basilio (23 August 2019)

sptrawler said:


> I thought I was the one with 'conspiracy theory' paranoia.




You think  this is a made up story  ?  Just a conspiracy ? 
_The proposal seen by the Guardian says the government would:
_

_Conduct a pilot of 40,000 income reviews for people aged 65 to 74 this financial year, checking for welfare overpayments from business income and bank interest as well as pay-as-you-go income
_
_Develop new methodologies to identify “low risk” sensitive customers
_
_And then undertake further “modest pilots” among 10,000 people who live in remote areas or have a “vulnerability indicator” on their Centrelink file in early 2020, before a broader rollout is considered

The proposal would not require legislation and has sparked fresh controversy about the future of the program, which Labor, the Greens and welfare groups say should be abolished. Two Senate inquiries are set to examine the scheme._




https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-pensioners-sensitive-groups-leaked-documents


----------



## basilio (23 August 2019)

And yes there is plenty happening on the climate change front.

But we don't have to have it pushed in front of our face do we ?


----------



## sptrawler (23 August 2019)

I don't think it is a made up story, I think the ATO and the Government of the day look at thousands of ideas and proposals.
I was commenting on your post that opened with about seven COULD's in the first three paragraphs.
As for robo debt, I have had several actual incidents with it and from my experience, it was wrong on three occasions and right to the tune of $6,000 on one occasion.
I was in contact with computershare today and if you want to talk to a computer they are the ones to ring, computers and data matching are the way things are going to go, whether we like it or not.
I definitely would keep receipts if I was you.


----------



## SirRumpole (23 August 2019)

sptrawler said:


> I don't think it is a made up story, I think the ATO and the Government of the day look at thousands of ideas and proposals.
> I was commenting on your post that opened with about seven COULD's in the first three paragraphs.
> As for robo debt, I have had several actual incidents with it and from my experience, it was wrong on three occasions and right to the tune of $6,000 on one occasion.
> I was in contact with computershare today and if you want to talk to a computer they are the ones to ring, computers and data matching are the way things are going to go, whether we like it or not.
> I definitely would keep receipts if I was you.




I wonder how many under payments they find and if they readily cough up the cash to the recipients or just don't bother telling them.


----------



## sptrawler (23 August 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> I wonder how many under payments they find and if they readily cough up the cash to the recipients or just don't bother telling them.



I dont think they are programmed for under payments, from my experience they just look for Government payments and recipients income and allowances.


----------



## basilio (26 August 2019)

Another example of how the government has decided to screw people into the ground. 

* Centrelink wrongly denies disability support pension to severely ill woman *
Trish Geidel, who has one lung and cannot leave the house without a mobility scooter, was placed on the lower Newstart payment

Luke Henriques-Gomes

 
 @lukehgomes 
Sun 25 Aug 2019 14.00 EDT   Last modified on Sun 25 Aug 2019 14.01 EDT

Shares
238



Centrelink denied the disability support pension to Trish Geidel, who lives with osteoarthritis, a spinal problem and depression, among other conditions. Photograph: Kelly Barnes/The Guardian
A severely ill woman in her 60s who cannot leave the house without a mobility scooter was wrongly judged as fit for work by Centrelink and denied the disability support pension.

Trish Geidel, of Adelaide, lives with osteoarthritis in her back and knees, a separate spinal problem, and struggles to physically exert herself due to a heart condition and the loss of one of her lungs about 20 years ago.

The 64-year-old has also lived with long-standing depression and said she could not walk much further than the “length of [the] passageway” of the unit she had shared with her husband.

“And I have walked up to the letter box,” she said. “So that’s a little bit further, that’s about 15 feet.”

*  Ask a policy expert: why is it so hard to get on the disability support pension?  *
Read more
But Centrelink rejected her claim for the disability support pension, saying she was fit to work for 15 hours a week. She was instead placed on the lower jobseeker’s payment, Newstart, after the death of her husband in 2017.
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...ability-support-pension-to-severely-ill-woman


----------



## SirRumpole (27 August 2019)

If Centrelink is going to take money out of people's tax returns at least they should get the numbers right. 

If they stuff up they should have to pay compensation for the worry they cause.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-27/centrelink-seizes-tax-return-of-robodebt-recipient/11450196


----------



## basilio (28 August 2019)

The  sheer gall and criminality of the Robodebt process "should" have resulted in it being dropped like a hotspud after the first *thousands* of people proved that the concocted figures were clearly wrong.
But this zombie doesn't die does it ? 

I thought this article hammered the point home - basically in the first sentence.

 Centrelink debt recovery 
* Robodebt is an abuse of power. It should never have seen the light of day *
Cassandra Goldie

Rather than hunting down people with phantom debt, the focus should be on finding ways to help them. How about lifting Newstart?

*Imagine if banks were issuing hundreds of thousands of false debts against their customers and expecting customers to prove them wrong or pay up.*

This is how the government is treating people who’ve received income support payments with its notorious robodebt scheme. Three years since its inception, robodebt continues to inflict people with inaccurate debts, forcing them to prove their innocence or pay back money they may not owe.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...er-it-should-never-have-seen-the-light-of-day


----------



## orr (17 September 2019)

The simple fact that Schmuck and his troupe of intellectually thread bare underpreforming  muppets  are crab walking from any thing that resembles a Federal ICAC of consequence, is more than proof of it's a necessity. 
Why did this garbling pratt get the sack from Tourism Australia again??? Oh thats right; he's payed off every one who knows not to tell. So if you, out there, do know, you know more than the people who voted for him as PM. It's more than a fair guess that he wouldn't be PM if people did know.

Great work their doing on liquid fuel security.....tragic tragic clowns and their working hard to spread that tragedy to you.


----------



## SirRumpole (17 September 2019)

Class action launched against robodebt.

Interesting.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-17/centrelink-robodebt-class-action-lawsuit-announced/11520338


----------



## sptrawler (17 September 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Class action launched against robodebt.
> 
> Interesting.
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-17/centrelink-robodebt-class-action-lawsuit-announced/11520338



It certainly will be, I see Billy is involved, the outcome may trash the ATO computer. 
Time will tell, I wouldn't be putting any money on it, having been through the loop.


----------



## Knobby22 (21 September 2019)

We should all start calling him the titanium man. It gives me great pride to see this title bestowed on him by our Amercan friends.

Maggie Thatcher the Iron Woman would probably confer the title to ScoMo also if she was still around.

She was a great leader who turned GBR around and ScoMo I am sure she would have rated highly.


----------



## SirRumpole (21 September 2019)

Knobby22 said:


> We should all start calling him the titanium man. It gives me great pride to see this title bestowed on him by our Amercan friends.
> 
> Maggie Thatcher the Iron Woman would probably confer the title to ScoMo also if she was still around.
> 
> She was a great leader who turned GBR around and ScoMo I am sure she would have rated highly.




It's all bs and we know it.

Thatcher was so bad her own party had to dump her.

Let's see if the Titman tries a poll tax.


----------



## Knobby22 (21 September 2019)

Thatcher was Ok in my book. She did a lot of good  but at the end of her reign went too far with the poll tax.


The men in the party were so scared of her they couldn't organise the coup till she was out of the country.


----------



## moXJO (21 September 2019)

Knobby22 said:


> Thatcher was Ok in my book. She did a lot of good  but at the end of her reign went too far with the poll tax.
> 
> 
> The men in the party were so scared of her they couldn't organise the coup till she was out of the country.



She was the stiff upper lip they needed at the time. Agree that her reign went to far in the end. Sometimes you need a hardass to turn it around.


----------



## orr (27 September 2019)

Knobby22 said:


> We should all start calling him the titanium man.




Titanium Oxide 'man'  ...very... very, white...too white. artificially white. God awfully white.

Just heard  Slomo is coming after your franking credits... Of course only part of a broader inquiry into retirement savings planning. 8pm news on a Friday night, that golden window for announcements for the gutless.
On this one though...  go Schmo go ...
Just more proof of the ALP governing from opposition...


----------



## SirRumpole (27 September 2019)

Here's one for the "true believers".

Earn less than $90k and you'll be paying more tax.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09...-secret-heart-federal-budget-surplus/11554990


----------



## qldfrog (28 September 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Here's one for the "true believers".
> 
> Earn less than $90k and you'll be paying more tax.
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09...-secret-heart-federal-budget-surplus/11554990



Well when middle class is decimated, you need to get the money somewhere, and whatever bs you read on Labour manifesto, you will can not get it from the few uber rich
The slow decent to the Argentinian model
They are still electing socialists and taxing the rich there
Definition of a rich bastard to be taxed?
Anyone having more money than 50% of voters.
a race to the bottom


----------



## sptrawler (28 September 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Here's one for the "true believers".
> 
> Earn less than $90k and you'll be paying more tax.
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09...-secret-heart-federal-budget-surplus/11554990




Just to keep the theme balanced, here is one for the delusional "true believers".

https://www.afr.com/politics/former...-income-tax-rate-way-too-high-20180805-h13kk0


----------



## SirRumpole (28 September 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Just to keep the theme balanced, here is one for the delusional "true believers".
> 
> https://www.afr.com/politics/former...-income-tax-rate-way-too-high-20180805-h13kk0




He's right.

Get the personal tax rates down , but also do away with the perks like negative gearing and superannuation tax benefits to balance the system.


----------



## qldfrog (28 September 2019)

Negative gearing is a basic taxation principle but get overused in property here due to endless RE market growth
The issue will disappear after a few years of flat market, it is a consequence, not a cause of economic imbalance favouring RE
It also needs to be taken into account if you want to keep things like depreciation etc otherwise, you need to allow immediate deduction for repairs etc
Think about it...


----------



## sptrawler (28 September 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> He's right.
> 
> Get the personal tax rates down , but also do away with the perks like negative gearing and superannuation tax benefits to balance the system.



Easier just to bring on a death tax, why tax the crap out of people earning and inve sting, why not just tax what is passed on?
You want to encourage endeavour  and let people enjoy the the proceeds, but that shouldnt mean the next generation should be able to do sod all because they inherit.


----------



## Tink (29 September 2019)




----------



## PZ99 (29 September 2019)

Negative gearing amounts to taxpayers funding excessive debt - which is one of the things stalling the economy, it also distorts the price of housing - putting it out of range of first home buyers and it's a gravy train where money is siphoned from the have-nots to the haves.

It's one of the reasons we have to tax the crap out of people for the sake of little or no return.


----------



## sptrawler (29 September 2019)

PZ99 said:


> Negative gearing amounts to taxpayers funding excessive debt - which is one of the things stalling the economy, it also distorts the price of housing - putting it out of range of first home buyers and it's a gravy train where money is siphoned from the have-nots to the haves.
> 
> It's one of the reasons we have to tax the crap out of people for the sake of little or no return.



Well then get rid of it completely, not just make it for the rich.


----------



## PZ99 (29 September 2019)

Absolutely get rid of it completely. Should've been done years ago.


----------



## sptrawler (30 September 2019)

PZ99 said:


> Absolutely get rid of it completely. Should've been done years ago.



What was done in the U.K years ago was, first home buyers could claim their home interest as a tax deduction, not investors. Which isnt a bad idea.


----------



## PZ99 (30 September 2019)

sptrawler said:


> What was done in the U.K years ago was, first home buyers could claim their home interest as a tax deduction, not investors. Which isnt a bad idea.



Not a bad idea because it mitigates debt - so the return is a lesser burden on the state.


----------



## sptrawler (30 September 2019)

PZ99 said:


> Not a bad idea because it mitigates debt - so the return is a lesser burden on the state.



The other godd thing with it is, it still encourages endeavour and reward, in Australia we are too preoccupied with punishing endeavour and rewarding complacency. IMO
It is very difficult to produce a motivated population with that agenda, as has been proven by some Countries in Europe.


----------



## macca (30 September 2019)

If we want to curb negative gearing on multiple properties the RBA could simply mandate that all residential investment loans must have an unencumbered deposit of 15%.

If you do the tax maths it really kills the milking of the system by the rich

Or first one can be borrowed, which would encourage the average joe public to think about investing for their old age, then all others need 20% deposit.


----------



## SirRumpole (30 September 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Easier just to bring on a death tax, why tax the crap out of people earning and inve sting, why not just tax what is passed on?
> You want to encourage endeavour  and let people enjoy the the proceeds, but that shouldnt mean the next generation should be able to do sod all because they inherit.




You may want to mention that to the LNP.


----------



## bi-polar (30 September 2019)

Taxes? The US has too much revenue and just spends it on planes and walls.  Australia is eyeing off the United States' tightly guarded fuel reserve as it seeks to overcome having less than a third of the stocks it should.  Why can't US do Australia's budgets?


----------



## sptrawler (30 September 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> You may want to mention that to the LNP.



Im sure it will be looked at in the review, as the population ages and the super system matures, there will be on going changes for the next 20 to 30 years IMO.
As long as it is all done in well thought out way, it will be fine, if it is done in a half arsed back of the napkin way, it will end up a dogs ear.
Time will tell, but there hasnt been any knee jerk brain farts yet, so that is a good sign.
Again just my opinion.


----------



## Knobby22 (1 October 2019)

I think the Government will just stop or slow down the increase in contributions planned.
It doesn't look good when wage growth is 2% and the next rise is 0.5%, especially when the economy is in trouble.
They will also look at trying to hobble the Industry Funds for no good reason.

I think they will mainly avoid any hard decisions and kick the can down the road, but then again I am a huge fan of Rob Sitch's Utopia.


----------



## chiff (1 October 2019)

Knobby22 said:


> I think the Government will just stop or slow down the increase in contributions planned.
> It doesn't look good when wage growth is 2% and the next rise is 0.5%, especially when the economy is in trouble.
> They will also look at trying to hobble the Industry Funds for no good reason.
> 
> I think they will mainly avoid any hard decisions and kick the can down the road, but then again I am a huge fan of Rob Sitch's Utopia.



Yes ,Dutton Cash et al were bragging how they were going to expose or bring down Industry super funds...that was before the banking royal commission discredited their own preferred funds.Now they are trying another way to get into industry funds..As an old man told me 'there are more ways to skin a cat than stuffing a pound of warm butter up its rear end'


----------



## sptrawler (1 October 2019)

Knobby22 said:


> I think the Government will just stop or slow down the increase in contributions planned.
> It doesn't look good when wage growth is 2% and the next rise is 0.5%, especially when the economy is in trouble.
> They will also look at trying to hobble the Industry Funds for no good reason.
> 
> I think they will mainly avoid any hard decisions and kick the can down the road, but then again I am a huge fan of Rob Sitch's Utopia.



That is true knobby, in a lot of ways there is no point in low income earners living on the bread line, while they have money stuffed away, so they can have enough when they retire to reduce or replace their pension. To me that seems a bit cruel.


----------



## basilio (1 October 2019)

sptrawler said:


> That is true knobby, in a lot of ways there is no point in low income earners living on the bread line, while they have money stuffed away, so they can have enough when they retire to reduce or replace their pension. To me that seems a bit cruel.




Hmm.  I believe the idea behind the compulsory super contribution was that this was savings made by employers on behalf of workers.  If it all went well (super payments made, super company investing well, reasonable fees) in 30-40 years time there would be a sizable fund to* help *retirement. 

But if the extra  super guarantee is not given will that mean employers add another 2-3% to wages in compensation ?

The problems I see in super for low income workers has been the the issues I raised in the brackets above. In that sense what would make excellent sense would be a government run/guaranteed super fund which ensured it received workers entitlements, had minimal fees and offered a guaranteed 3% real return. 

All fine of course but it wouldn't suit the super industry would it ?


----------



## sptrawler (1 October 2019)

I tend to think that there is a case ATM, to *make* employers give an across the board pay rise to low income earners, in lieu of the increase to their super contributions.
I have no confidence that a persons super contributions will in fact *help* their retirement in 30-40 years time, as opposed to just reducing the amount of pension they qualify for, whereas now the money could be better used to help them manage in the current economic situation.
If at a later date things improve whereby, wages are increasing and outstripping cost of living increases, then up the super contribution rate.
Life and the economic situation isn't a linear progression, the system should adapt to the prevailing economic climate, as opposed to pandering to the Government and Super Funds, it is the individuals money not the Governments. The Government's are too focused on reducing their pension obligations and Super Funds are too focused on their gravy train. IMO


----------



## basilio (4 October 2019)

New flavour of the month for the Libs. 
Sounds Putinesque..
 
* Peter Dutton accused of sounding 'like a dictator' after urging welfare cuts for protesters *

Home affairs minister also recommended mandatory jail sentences and public shaming of climate change activists

Amy Remeikis

 @amyremeikis 
Thu 3 Oct 2019 03.58 EDT   Last modified on Thu 3 Oct 2019 04.16 EDT






Peter Dutton has called for protesters disrupting Brisbane to have their welfare withdrawn and to face mandatory, indefinite jail sentences. Photograph: Lukas Coch/AAP
Protesters who disrupt traffic should have their welfare payments cut and be subject to mandatory jail sentences, Peter Dutton has declared, as conservative MPs continue to lash out against climate change protests.
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...cused-dictator-urging-welfare-cuts-protesters


----------



## SirRumpole (4 October 2019)

basilio said:


> New flavour of the month for the Libs.
> Sounds Putinesque..
> 
> * Peter Dutton accused of sounding 'like a dictator' after urging welfare cuts for protesters *
> ...




Twit.


----------



## wayneL (4 October 2019)

basilio said:


> New flavour of the month for the Libs.
> Sounds Putinesque..
> 
> * Peter Dutton accused of sounding 'like a dictator' after urging welfare cuts for protesters *
> ...



It's an ambit claim.

Taken round the back of the station for a "chat", is probably all they're after. Medical bills on the house.


----------



## bi-polar (4 October 2019)

You may be right..er..correct. Journalists aren't really off to Labor camps ,  "Taken round the back of the station for a "chat", is probably all they're after."


----------



## bi-polar (7 October 2019)

In the strange world of planet America , Afghans and Iraqis are kidnapped in their countries for breaking US law and sent to Guantanamo of communist Cuba, enemy of the free world.
"The 38-year-old University of Queensland research student was held in custody for 13 months over allegations he exported American radar equipment for detecting stealth planes or missiles to Iran, circumventing US sanctions."
Iran has swapped its innocent kidnap victims from Aus in exchange for the guy.  A bit more like kindergarten games than Law and Order. But now Trump is normal.


----------



## moXJO (23 October 2019)

This government is one of the sneakiest bunch of authoritarians around. And biggest bunch of do nothings. And labor has been passing a lot of their bills as well. Theres a reason they didn't win the last election.

Government grabbing more control while we look away.


----------



## sptrawler (23 October 2019)

moXJO said:


> This government is one of the sneakiest bunch of authoritarians around. And biggest bunch of do nothings. And labor has been passing a lot of their bills as well. Theres a reason they didn't win the last election.
> 
> Government grabbing more control while we look away.



Maybe it is just that they aren't on the front page of every paper, that gives that impression, we are very used to seeing politics taking up 50% of all news media.


----------



## chiff (23 October 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Maybe it is just that they aren't on the front page of every paper, that gives that impression, we are very used to seeing politics taking up 50% of all news media.



Noticed that Littleproud is having an investigation into how the satellite imagery of full dams for the cotton industry was accessed and revealed.Of course not how the dams got full in  drought times ,and no flows going down the rivers.Was cotton growing reduced by the drought?I do not think so.


----------



## sptrawler (23 October 2019)

chiff said:


> Noticed that Littleproud is having an investigation into how the satellite imagery of full dams for the cotton industry was accessed and revealed.Of course not how the dams got full in  drought times ,and no flows going down the rivers.Was cotton growing reduced by the drought?I do not think so.



Have you a link to what you are saying, I can't follow it, from W.A. 
Who is littleproud? was cotton growing reduced by the drought?
Sounds interesting though.


----------



## sptrawler (23 October 2019)

This seems like a great idea to me, continually farming marginal land is crazy, now seems like a great opportunity to rehabilitate the land.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10...o-consider-exit-packages/11628764?pfmredir=sm


----------



## macca (23 October 2019)

chiff said:


> Noticed that Littleproud is having an investigation into how the satellite imagery of full dams for the cotton industry was accessed and revealed.Of course not how the dams got full in  drought times ,and no flows going down the rivers.Was cotton growing reduced by the drought?I do not think so.




Whoops, your political leaning is showing, so I will use a lefty website, from the ABC

*Australia's cotton production halved as drought and low to no water allocation takes its toll*

*Key points:*

Australia's cotton crop is expected to be 2.1 million bales — about half the previous season's yield
Cotton Australia's chief executive says the national crop will still generate around $1.5 billion
He said it will not affect the global market, nor will it increase prices

https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2...er-allocation-impacts-cotton-harvest/11172966


----------



## chiff (23 October 2019)

macca said:


> Whoops, your political leaning is showing, so I will use a lefty website, from the ABC
> 
> *Australia's cotton production halved as drought and low to no water allocation takes its toll*
> 
> ...



Nothing to do with political leanings.Why was any cotton grown at all when no water is flowing down the Darling?I got this info off twitter.I vote for the centre-left.. rebekhah Sharkie.They want a royal commission into the mdb...no other party does.Why are cotton growers at the top of the system allowed to hive off flood water for free...and stop water getting into the system?This information also came from a Ms Slattery who gave evidence at the SA royal commission  into the MDB-known as an expert. ...unlike Cotton Australia's chief executive.She alerted all to the full dams (massive holding ponds) that the cotton growers have in storage.,This was last week on the Drum.


----------



## Smurf1976 (23 October 2019)

chiff said:


> Why was any cotton grown at all when no water is flowing down the Darling?




Does literally none of it grow without irrigation and is there nowhere else in Australia that cotton is grown?


----------



## moXJO (24 October 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Maybe it is just that they aren't on the front page of every paper, that gives that impression, we are very used to seeing politics taking up 50% of all news media.



Internet censorship,  media censorship,  cash attack,  this mob has been tightening its grip around a few areas of concern. It started off with the bikers losing rights (I know most don't care about criminals) but it started morphing into some pretty big breeches of the general publics rights and privacy.


----------



## SirRumpole (4 November 2019)

Economists give thumbs down to government's economic strategy.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11...p-lowe-not-treasurer-josh-frydenberg/11667836


----------



## Humid (5 November 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> Does literally none of it grow without irrigation and is there nowhere else in Australia that cotton is grown?




https://www.graincentral.com/news/cotton-makes-a-comeback-in-australias-north/

Plenty of water in the Kimberley


----------



## sptrawler (5 November 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Economists give thumbs down to government's economic strategy.
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11...p-lowe-not-treasurer-josh-frydenberg/11667836



It will be interesting to see how this pans out, it could well blow up in Morrison's face, because he will be judged in hindsight.
If Australia goes into recession he will wear it for not splashing cash, if we pull through some will say it was a master stroke others will say lucky, but it looks like a bit of a hiding to nothing to me.


----------



## PZ99 (5 November 2019)

Interest rate cuts and tax cuts haven't worked so there's no guarantee a cash splash will work.

Confidence is the key. A budget surplus might add to that.

Another rate cut from the reserve bank talking the economy down will do the opposite.


----------



## SirRumpole (5 November 2019)

PZ99 said:


> Interest rate cuts and tax cuts haven't worked so there's no guarantee a cash splash will work.
> 
> Confidence is the key. A budget surplus might add to that.
> 
> Another rate cut from the reserve bank talking the economy down will do the opposite.




I definitely agree that confidence is the key and more rate cuts won't work.

If  governments wanted to invest infrastructure and create jobs then near zero interest rates are the time to do it. Infrastructure will be needed at some time (it is needed right now), so if they have to borrow at 5% in some years they are just stupid if they don't do it now.


----------



## sptrawler (5 November 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> I definitely agree that confidence is the key and more rate cuts won't work.
> 
> If  governments wanted to invest infrastructure and create jobs then near zero interest rates are the time to do it. Infrastructure will be needed at some time (it is needed right now), so if they have to borrow at 5% in some years they are just stupid if they don't do it now.



It will be interesting to see which projects get up and running first, as that will be reflected in the share prices of the associated industries.IMO


----------



## wayneL (5 November 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Economists give thumbs down to government's economic strategy.
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11...p-lowe-not-treasurer-josh-frydenberg/11667836



I'll bet they are all Keynesian swill.

Not that I especially support the government's economic policy though.


----------



## macca (5 November 2019)

I think that should the Gov decide to build some major infrastructure now would be an excellent time to do so. With the huge reduction in mining start ups there must be heaps of equipment and trained people lying idle.

Issue some Gov Bonds at 2% and get as much as you need, give Oz residents and trusts first bite at the cherry and no AUD problems.

Retirees could/would spend a little more as they adjust their expenditure to their income and jobs would be created both in the building and the spending.

I believe we should do it as long as it is something that will still be useful 50 years from now.


----------



## sptrawler (5 November 2019)

macca said:


> I think that should the Gov decide to build some major infrastructure now would be an excellent time to do so. With the huge reduction in mining start ups there must be heaps of equipment and trained people lying idle.
> 
> Issue some Gov Bonds at 2% and get as much as you need, give Oz residents and trusts first bite at the cherry and no AUD problems.
> 
> ...



Agree with you completely Macca, there is no point in just throwing money out the window, well thought out infrastructure is required to increase our productivity. 
I hope the engineering and design work, on Snowy 2.0 and the Tassie battery,  is well advanced and can be commenced soon. That would give the green light for a lot more wind and solar to be installed.
Also Keatings idea of a high speed train from Sydney to Newcastle, seems to have merit, as it should take pressure of the Sydney housing market.
The Government bonds are a great idea, it would give retirees another option for parking savings.


----------



## Humid (6 November 2019)

https://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs...79EACA2718D0318ACA2581AF001493AA?OpenDocument

Tax cut working a treat


----------



## sptrawler (6 November 2019)

Apparently there are a lot suggesting, more tax cuts should be brought forward, sounds like a better idea than throwing money out the window.IMO
After all a tax cut, in reality, is just a pay rise in another form. It still goes back into the economy and the Government gets their cut back.
https://www.theage.com.au/politics/...st-banks-urge-government-20191106-p537w4.html


----------



## PZ99 (7 November 2019)

Tax reform is the ultimate panacea for a stagnant economy in my view even if it does take time to filter down. (Which is why you do it in more buoyant times)

I'd like to see the Govt do a deal with the states on anachronisms like payroll tax for starters


----------



## IFocus (11 November 2019)

Tax reform is badly needed but killed up by both sides now, tax cuts given this year were unfunded plus throwing money at the top end has little return.


----------



## sptrawler (11 November 2019)

IFocus said:


> Tax reform is badly needed but killed up by both sides now, tax cuts given this year were unfunded plus throwing money at the top end has little return.



Throwing money anywhere has little return, unless it improves the underlying productivity.
Otherwise it is just taking money out of the economy, to prop up what is already a problem, no one who has worked to get ahead would think of it as a good plan.
One could throw up many analogies in the home budget, where a family member keeps coming back saying all I need is more money, when in reality all the extra money is doing is supporting poor life choices.


----------



## Knobby22 (11 November 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Throwing money anywhere has little return, unless it improves the underlying productivity.
> Otherwise it is just taking money out of the economy, to prop up what is already a problem, no one who has worked to get ahead would think of it as a good plan.
> One could throw up many analogies in the home budget, where a family member keeps coming back saying all I need is more money, when in reality all the extra money is doing is supporting poor life choices.



Hey, a decent tax cut would let me join the local golf club. That's not a poor life choice!


----------



## sptrawler (11 November 2019)

Knobby22 said:


> Hey, a decent tax cut would let me join the local golf club. That's not a poor life choice!



Lucky you, with two replaced knees a replaced hip and severe arthritis of my right wrist, the only times I go to the golf club is to catch up with the ex workmates at the 19th hole.


----------



## SirRumpole (11 November 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Lucky you, with two replaced knees a replaced hip and severe arthritis of my right wrist, the only times I go to the golf club is to catch up with the ex workmates at the 19th hole.




Hire an electric golf cart.


----------



## sptrawler (11 November 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Hire an electric golf cart.



Actually a lot of the guys do, but if I  have time on my hands, I prefer to walk around the 18 and take the pizz out of them.
I think it is great, that they all get together once a month and hold the whole golf club up, as they thrash their way through the bush.
Also you get a lot of different opinions on issues.lol


----------



## basilio (21 November 2019)

Government decided a few days ago that Robo Debt could be dodgy.  (Just before a court case is coming up...)

As usual First Dog on the Moon  summed it up.
* Robodebt's methods are not just deliberately cruel - they may be against the law *





First Dog on the Moon  Robodebt was designed to work badly, and it did its job with ruthless inefficiency
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...eliberately-cruel-they-may-be-against-the-law


----------



## orr (23 November 2019)

TheRobo cluster-fuk

Will Tudge's head be on the block for this ghastly epoch of Politically expedient dog whistling inhumanity? Doubt it.
The self-righteous  God bothering, holier than thou, Bible thumping ruling clique that pull his strings knows that god helps those that help themselves. 
How many suicides can be directly sheeted home to this?... Quite a few more than the conservatives love nothing more than to remind people of the Rudd 'insulation  roll out'...

And a dubious legal area... I'll pray for a class action. Should line up well with the next election.
P.S
Sky After dark is Sewage.


----------



## Smurf1976 (23 November 2019)

I've read a report of some comments over the past couple of days from two former PM's, John Howard and Malcolm Turnbull, both saying basically the same thing.

The parliament, both major parties, has become unrepresentative the people they are supposed to be representing.

In short too many with either no background at all in non-political work or if they have then it's mostly lawyers and a few teachers. Take those out and there'd be pretty much nobody left in either of the two major parties.

Very true in my view. As Turnbull pointed out, Labor used to have a lot more people who had a union background but that background was tradesmen on the tools not uni students who got a job working for a union and then went into politics. Likewise the Liberals also had a much broader background in the past, it wasn't all career politicians and lawyers.

Now I've nothing against lawyers or union officials as such, my point being that having the parliament full of people all from the same background is by its very nature not a good situation to have. There needs to be a balance. We don't want it full of engineers, doctors or bricklayers either but a mix of people from a wide range of different backgrounds would be highly desirable. A range of people - a few career politicians and former lawyers yes but also a few from backgrounds in other professions, trades (on the tools), small business, essential services, military or emergency services, big business, public service and so on would vastly improve the thought processes and outcomes.


----------



## SirRumpole (23 November 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> Now I've nothing against lawyers or union officials as such, my point being that having the parliament full of people all from the same background is by its very nature not a good situation to have. There needs to be a balance. We don't want it full of engineers, doctors or bricklayers either but a mix of people from a wide range of different backgrounds would be highly desirable. A range of people - a few career politicians and former lawyers yes but also a few from backgrounds in other professions, trades (on the tools), small business, essential services, military or emergency services, big business, public service and so on would vastly improve the thought processes and outcomes.




Their seems to be a quota for women, I wonder if their are any scientists at all on any side. Maybe we need a quota of scientists.

*Someone *who has been taught critical thinking and evidence based policy making instead of ideological mores like "have a go to get a go" or similar trash.

As an incidental, I don't often agree with One Nation, but they may have a point here.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11...as-conservatives-fear-leftist-agenda/11648892

I bet the private schools are taught a Rightist agenda, so those need looking at too.


----------



## Smurf1976 (23 November 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> *Someone *who has been taught critical thinking and evidence based policy making instead of ideological mores like "have a go to get a go" or similar trash.




Absolutely.

Looking at how lawyers or union officials think, they've got a lot in common in that they spend a lot of time being extremely pedantic and dwelling on the fine details. They're particularly attuned to finding loopholes based upon technicalities.

There's a place for that sort of thinking certainly but there's also a need for the exact opposite.

Farmers, military, essential services, emergency services and tradies all have something in common in that they're of the "don't stuff about just get it done" mentality. That's basically the opposite of the lawyers and unionists with their focus on technicalities and detail.

Now we wouldn't want the parliament full of people like that but there's a need for some of that thinking most certainly. 

Take the contentious climate issue for example. Lots of getting bogged down over pedantic details and technicalities and wriggling their way out of it via whatever loophole they can find and so on. Anyone in the group I mentioned would just get it done and if a law needs to change well then change it and so on. Find a way or make one.

There's a need for both of those sorts of thinking but at present it's almost completely one sided. Lots of people to argue on fine details and looking for loopholes but very few with a practical focus on getting things done and with an understanding that passing the laws or signing a contract means the physical work can now start, it doesn't mean it has been completed.

Scientists think differently again and we need those sorts of people too. Same with those who apply science (as distinct from actual scientists). Creative people too also think differently. And so on. My examples aren't comprehensive, I just picked the group most different to who's there now.

A monoculture, group think, echo chamber or whatever other term exists to describe it is something which is always best avoided. Same with investing - some of the most interesting posts on this forum are the ones presenting a view that's opposite to my own.


----------



## SirRumpole (23 November 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> There's a need for both of those sorts of thinking but at present it's almost completely one sided. Lots of people to argue on fine details and looking for loopholes but very few with a practical focus on getting things done and with an understanding that passing the laws or signing a contract means the physical work can now start, it doesn't mean it has been completed.




I think that is where Keating had a head start.

He didn't get everything right but his lack of education meant he didn't concentrate on minutae but he had a grip on the "overarching narrative", something that is sorely absent in today's politicians.


----------



## qldfrog (23 November 2019)

And i think a few critical thinking would be welcome for anything related to global warming indeed
I know it is a poor consolation but it is slso definitively a problem in western europe as well, union being replaced by leftist teachers, and lawyers


----------



## SirRumpole (23 November 2019)

qldfrog said:


> And i think a few critical thinking would be welcome for anything related to global warming indeed
> I know it is a poor consolation but it is slso definitively a problem in western europe as well, union being replaced by leftist teachers, and lawyers




How smoky is it around your area froggy ?

Bushfires/grassfires  over virtually the whole mainlaind. Unprecedented.

Don't tell me it's just the weather.


----------



## qldfrog (23 November 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> How smoky is it around your area froggy ?
> 
> Bushfires/grassfires  over virtually the whole mainlaind. Unprecedented.
> 
> Don't tell me it's just the weather.



Have you been living in the country..i mean rural? If so you know why australia is now burning.
if not  be a good ABC drone and blame global warming
Yes we are in a drough ..one of the bad one but not worst in any way than the federation one
What is worst is the state of the land
My 16ha needs a burn off.needed it 20y ago but it was already turned down at the time due to new building construction on the other side of the mountain
20y later, any fire will be of terrible cataclysmic size and i got 5 new houses neighbour none rural people...
There is global warmig happening, i think..i say i think as the propaganda is so strong it is impossible to access unbiaised data, but yes i think climate is changing.
No i  do not think it is in any significant way caused by the co2 or ch4 emissions.
But global warming or not, these fires are basically caused by a drought..fair enough... we are a land of drought and flood, and reaching a potentially unseen gravity due to land neglect and environmental laws
Burnoff have been insufficient since the 2000 , no tree can be cut, even the ones i planted e.
if we were trying to fix the situation now, we have 2 decades of horror ahead minimum
Aborigines cared for the land via the fires, then farmers did then government took control...
http://www.newsweekly.com.au/nwmobile/article.php?id=58792
For a few facts on how bad it is now
I was using my fire pump to transfer water at 6pm today.
And i have trouble to be given lessons by some idiots there..not you ..same when given lectures on sciences and co2 by uneducated brainwashed y12 level fanaticsi
i worked for csiro have 5y Uni in science degrees inc thermodynamics and chemistry, and definitely experimental sciences
I was a believer in co2 gw 15y ago until i started finding too many not right  issues with the concept and started digging on the issue

I have no definite answer, i know earth poles are shifting which may explain some facts, and it is kept nearly a secret..i find that big.... i also know the sheer heat emission prodused by mankind is enough to explain the lower atmosphere warming, a few other facts: coal was produced when co2 levels where 10 times and more higher than current..not 2 or 5% .a.1000%plus yet earth was not boiling, greenhouse gases works in logarithmic scale doubling co2 will not double the effect in anyway, most of the greenhouse effect is already there and concentration does not matter that much

The story is not right..
From a sustained world view, the less fossil fuel the better, but stop the co2 blaming.look at bloody overpopulation
Things like co2 capture are an absolute disaster..we are looking at effects and mistaking them as cause....
Same same as the time when we thought the sun was circling the earth..and the troglodytes are there too..
So enjoy a steak if you want and instead of closing a coal mine, allow more budget for controlled burn done intelligently and you will help me or other Australians who could be fighting for their life due to government let down..and a few other issues volonteering, forced evacuation, etc, H&S regulations etc


----------



## orr (25 November 2019)

From one of Australia's  better writers;

_"Many political commentators tend to view Morrison as some political genius, the winner of the unwinnable election. But history may judge him differently: a Brezhnevian figure; the last of the dinosaurs, presiding over an era of stagnation at the head of a dying political class imprisoned within and believing its own vast raft of lies as the world lived a fundamentally different reality of economic decay, environmental pillage and social breakdown.

A corrupted, sclerotic system incapable of the change needed, surviving only by and through a dull repression of dissent and dissenters can, nevertheless, seem eternal – until the hour it crumbles. At some point something gives. Something always gives. The longer the impasse, the more denied the common voice, the greater and more terrible that future moment."
_
An eloquent synopsis  .... Thank you Richard Flanagan.


----------



## moXJO (25 November 2019)

orr said:


> From one of Australia's  better writers;
> 
> _"Many political commentators tend to view Morrison as some political genius, the winner of the unwinnable election. But history may judge him differently: a Brezhnevian figure; the last of the dinosaurs, presiding over an era of stagnation at the head of a dying political class imprisoned within and believing its own vast raft of lies as the world lived a fundamentally different reality of economic decay, environmental pillage and social breakdown.
> 
> ...



I wonder if the same would have been written about Shorten?


----------



## orr (25 November 2019)

moXJO said:


> I wonder if the same would have been written about Shorten?



 One difference (and few others) would have been that the cobbled together 'NEG' would have been a step away for that being written about Shorten.

But to know that you would have to have a memory? 
And to quote Milan Kundera "the fight against power is the fight against forgetting"


----------



## Humid (25 November 2019)

Ramming through the union integrity bill while Westpac execs continue on
Lol
I think they’re attacking the wrong organisations


----------



## SirRumpole (25 November 2019)

Given the revelations of Chinese spying in Australia and a possible assassination of an Australian citizen, can we continue to allow this sort of thing to occur ?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11...0-million-bid-for-aussie-dairy-icons/11735408


----------



## basilio (26 November 2019)

Angus Taylor in a pickle.
Exactly who was responsible for making up a set of fake figures in an official letter to Cover Moore ?

*NSW police investigating doctored document Angus Taylor used in Clover Moore attack*
Strike Force Garrad will investigate whether any criminal offences have taken place 

Angus Taylor during question time in parliament in October. The energy minister relied on figures he later admitted were false to mount an attack on Sydney’s lord mayor, Clover Moore. NSW police have confirmed they are investigating whether a criminal offence has been committed. Photograph: Mike Bowers/The Guardian
New South Wales police have contacted the City of Sydney requesting information about downloads of its 2017-18 annual report after an altered version was relied upon by the minister for energy, Angus Taylor, to lash the lord mayor, Clover Moore, over the council’s carbon footprint and accuse her of hypocrisy.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...ment-angus-taylor-used-in-clover-moore-attack


----------



## chiff (27 November 2019)

Morrison phoning NSW police?Has this got anything to do with the separation of powers?


----------



## basilio (27 November 2019)

chiff said:


> Morrison phoning NSW police?Has this got anything to do with the separation of powers?




Indeed it does...not. 

I believe it was some vague old fashioned notion about keeping the politicians out of police investigations in case someone thought a particular investigation wasn't going the right way..

It's like that other old  vague old fashioned notion that if a Minister is being investigated by police they should stand aside until investigations are completed. Just to show that the Government is serious about letting due process take its course without fear or favour.


----------



## Knobby22 (27 November 2019)

It has always happened. Morrison was just checking if there was any hard evidence before he backed up his minister.

One good thing I will say about SM is that he always does stuff out in the open. He isn't tricky like Abbott and Turnbull.


----------



## chiff (27 November 2019)

Knobby22 said:


> It has always happened. Morrison was just checking if there was any hard evidence before he backed up his minister.
> 
> One good thing I will say about SM is that he always does stuff out in the open. He isn't tricky like Abbott and Turnbull.



Did the cops have time to investigate the claim?


----------



## Knobby22 (27 November 2019)

chiff said:


> Did the cops have time to investigate the claim?



Well they are going to but personally I think it's a pretty untraceable crime.
My guess is a junior staffer did it or found it on some dodgy site, gave it to the minister who as we all know from Utopia would definitely be stupid enough to release it.


----------



## SirRumpole (27 November 2019)

Knobby22 said:


> Well they are going to but personally I think it's a pretty untraceable crime.
> My guess is a junior staffer did it or found it on some dodgy site, gave it to the minister who as we all know from Utopia would definitely be stupid enough to release it.




The buck stops at the top I'm afraid.

Taylor has to go, he used a fraudulent document and probably misled Parliament.


----------



## Knobby22 (27 November 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> The buck stops at the top I'm afraid.
> 
> Taylor has to go, he used a fraudulent document and probably misled Parliament.




I agree but the convention has been ignored in Australia for the last 20 years. Can you think of any minister that has gone in that time?


----------



## IFocus (27 November 2019)

Humid said:


> Ramming through the union integrity bill while Westpac execs continue on
> Lol
> I think they’re attacking the wrong organisations





CEO picks up a lazy $2mil plus on the way out........


----------



## chiff (28 November 2019)

Knobby22 said:


> I agree but the convention has been ignored in Australia for the last 20 years. Can you think of any minister that has gone in that time?



What  I think is that the police


Knobby22 said:


> Well they are going to but personally I think it's a pretty untraceable crime.
> My guess is a junior staffer did it or found it on some dodgy site, gave it to the minister who as we all know from Utopia would definitely be stupid enough to release it.



The old politcal adage -if you can't win an argument stuff it up"  The question we have got away from is -did Taylor mislead parliament?


----------



## basilio (29 November 2019)

*Robo Debt*

Who could have imagined that simply using  a short window of time for an unemployed persons income and stretching it over a full year could possibly create a mistake. ?

And then sending a Letter of Demand for over-payments  based on such a misconstrued contrivance ? 

And then following it with Debt collectors, penalty notices, garnishing bank ccounts ? 

All done with the intent of clawing billions of dollar from the poorest people in the country and driving many to despair, bankruptcy and suicide .

It was always an evil, criminal act.

Now a Federal Court has ruled hat anyone with two functioning neurones was able to recognise.

 


* Federal Court rules robodebt 'unlawful' in significant court case *

Wednesday 27 November 2019 3:41pm





By  Shalailah Medhora

 Mail 
 Twitter 
 Facebook 
The Federal Government has suffered a significant setback in its automated debt recovery system, known as robodebt, with the Federal Court finding that the debt of a plaintiff was unlawful.

Victoria Legal Aid brought forward the challenge on behalf of a 33-year-old woman who had a debt of more than $2900 raised against her by the Department of Human Services, which runs Centrelink.

Justice Jennifer Davies found that the court "could not have been satisfied that a debt was owed in the amount of the alleged debt".

The judgement said "the demand for payment of an alleged debt... was not validly made", and that garnishing the plaintiff's tax return was "not a lawful issued notice".

She ruled that the Commonwealth must reimburse her interest of $92.06, and pay her legal fees. The Department had waived its debt of $1709.87 against plaintiff Deanna Amato prior to the court ruling.

"It feels amazing. You can feel so small and helpless next to the Government, but I am so glad that the unfair and ultimately unlawful aspects of this system have been brought to light," Ms Amato said in a statement. 
https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/federal-government-loses-major-robodebt-case/11742494


----------



## basilio (30 November 2019)

There is an excellent analysis of the history and rationale behind the Robo Debt debacle.
Truly, deeply, madly insane...
* The robodebt horror was all about boosting the budget. That's the brutal truth *
Katharine Murphy
Who in the Morrison government will own the consequences of this wretched, possibly unlawful, scheme?

 @murpharoo 
Sat 30 Nov 2019 06.00 AEDT   Last modified on Sat 30 Nov 2019 08.39 AEDT

Shares
76



‘The government conceded a $2,500 debt raised against Deanna Amato, a 34-year-old local government employee, was not lawful because it relied on income averaging.’ Photograph: Supplied by Victoria Legal Aid

Bill Shorten rose in the House on Thursday, immediately after another bruising question time focused on the Angus Taylor imbroglio, and just before Pauline Hanson theatrically stiffed Scott Morrison on the union integrity bill, to ask a simple question – Who is responsible for this mistake?

Who will own the consequences of this botch-up seems a quaint sort of question to ask in politics these days. It implies that people in public life remain accountable for things, despite the steady erosion in standards, despite the tendency of some in politics to manufacture their own facts when the truth gets uncomfortable.

Shorten was speaking in this particular instance about robodebt, which in many respects is the most gobsmacking story of the political week. A quick recap in case these events flew under your radar.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...ut-boosting-the-budget-thats-the-brutal-truth


----------



## basilio (4 December 2019)

Back to Truth in Advertising.
The new Quiet Australia Policy


----------



## basilio (17 December 2019)

There is absolutely no suggestion that Angus Taylor did anything untowrad when a company he had an interest in made an exceptionally favourable sale of water to the Federal Government in whicd he is Minister.

But  really ?

 
* Cotton, water and Angus Taylor: how the minister's firm struggled to make farms pay *
Growth Farms Australia managed two Queensland properties under difficult circumstances until 2014, three years before the government bought their water rights
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...ow-ministers-firm-struggled-to-make-farms-pay


----------



## IFocus (19 December 2019)

Surprised no one has mentioned Scotty from marketing taking hols while Australia burns maybe the coming weather was to hot for him? and


----------



## wayneL (19 December 2019)

IFocus said:


> Surprised no one has mentioned Scotty from marketing taking hols while Australia burns maybe the coming weather was to hot for him? and



Because it's a beat up by leftist tw@ts.

Utterly childish drivel


----------



## Humid (19 December 2019)

Drivel you say!


----------



## orr (19 December 2019)

IFocus said:


> Surprised no one has mentioned Scotty from marketing taking hols while Australia burns maybe the coming weather was to hot for him? and




Surprised??? That a totally self-possessed blabber mouth, millennialism tub thumper  that loves nothing more obfuscation, ditests any scrutiny of his actions or that of members of cabinet and the peudo protecting head of his Church, know the name Brian(pocket $$tuffer)Houston. A PM Who presides over a policy vacuum so rarified that its only saving grace is its impending implosion... has gone missing when there's serious stuff at a federal level to be done..
Nah... for this gibber'a, it's par for the course...

C-130 Hercules have roll on roll off fire bombing capacity... Australia has how many of these units to go with our Herc's???... It's big round and there's a whole in the middle.
How many billion$$ on slated Submarines and the and the  Lockheed Martin Joint Strike turd.

_....'But someone would have had to predicted these type of events'....._

Schmo Morrison would recognise 'clear and present danger' if it was his own arse on fire...
Don't forget his putting Nixon in the pillory when she went out to have something to eat while Dandennongs were well alight..
Like too many god botherer's at heart he's a frightened hypocrite.

Ohh. and sad to see Eddie Obeid is out jail... but probably not for long.


----------



## moXJO (19 December 2019)

orr said:


> Schmo Morrison would recognise 'clear and present danger' if it was his own arse on fire...



Love it,  full credit and I'm stealing it.


----------



## IFocus (19 December 2019)

wayneL said:


> Because it's a beat up by leftist tw@ts.
> 
> Utterly childish drivel




More leftestspittle  childish drivel.....oh hang on whats that Scotty?


“Ten years ago, an ambitious young Liberal MP led the charge attacking Victoria’s police chief Christine Nixon for choosing to eat dinner at a gastropub as the horror of Black Saturday, the worst bushfires in the state’s history, unfolded.

Scott Morrison was that MP’s name and he did not hold back when condemning her actions when asked on the ABC’s Q&A program in April 2010.

“She’s clearly made a bad judgment call. That happens to people from time to time, but this was a very serious issue,” Mr Morrison said.


----------



## wayneL (19 December 2019)

IFocus said:


> More leftestspittle  childish drivel.....oh hang on whats that Scotty?
> 
> “Ten years ago, an ambitious young Liberal MP led the charge attacking Victoria’s police chief Christine Nixon for choosing to eat dinner at a gastropub as the horror of Black Saturday, the worst bushfires in the state’s history, unfolded.
> 
> ...



Nixon was a state level first responder with direct responsibility. Scotty has no jurisdiction.

Again, absolute drivel.


----------



## IFocus (19 December 2019)

wayneL said:


> Nixon was a state level first responder with direct responsibility. Scotty has no jurisdiction.
> 
> Again, absolute drivel.





Keep digging its your integrity .......


----------



## IFocus (19 December 2019)

More leftest-spittle drivel.....OMG its everywhere


----------



## SirRumpole (19 December 2019)

wayneL said:


> Nixon was a state level first responder with direct responsibility. Scotty has no jurisdiction.
> 
> Again, absolute drivel.




The jurisdiction of the Prime Minister is the national interest and an interest in his countrymen's suffering.

When a lot of the country is turning black and choking on smoke, you expect the national leader to be around sharing the pain instead of swanning off to somewhere more pleasant, even if he can't do anything practical about the problem.


----------



## Humid (20 December 2019)

IFocus said:


> Keep digging its your integrity .......



Can you like something twice?


----------



## wayneL (20 December 2019)

IFocus said:


> View attachment 99145
> 
> 
> More leftest-spittle drivel.....OMG its everywhere



Good god, the left is finally learning how to meme!


----------



## Humid (21 December 2019)

wayneL said:


> Nixon was a state level first responder with direct responsibility. Scotty has no jurisdiction.
> 
> Again, absolute drivel.




Imagine if it had been Rudd or Gillard who'd gone on holiday in similar circumstances? The contrast with their opponent, volunteer firefighter Tony Abbott, would have been devastating.


----------



## wayneL (21 December 2019)

Humid said:


> Imagine if it had been Rudd or Gillard who'd gone on holiday in similar circumstances? The contrast with their opponent, volunteer firefighter Tony Abbott, would have been devastating.



Fair point, politics is largely about optics, and the optics are obviously poor.

I hold to my point but equally recognise yours.


----------



## dutchie (22 December 2019)

IFocus said:


> View attachment 99145
> 
> 
> More leftest-spittle drivel.....OMG its everywhere




I'll pay that one (cartoon)


----------



## moXJO (22 December 2019)

Abbott was an actual volunteer fireman and had been for a while and everyone was giving him sht on here for actually helping during fire season. 
Scomo should know better, real dumb move, but seriously....


----------



## sptrawler (22 December 2019)

Humid said:


> Imagine if it had been Rudd or Gillard who'd gone on holiday in similar circumstances? The contrast with their opponent, volunteer firefighter Tony Abbott, would have been devastating.



Well this is a news report, on Tony Abbott's volunteer firefighting in 2013.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-01-09/labor-mp-sorry-for-abbott-stunt-tweet/4458118
From the article:
_Mr Abbott yesterday said he would be on "standby" to help out given the fire emergency gripping large parts of the state.

Federal Housing Minister Brendan O'Connor this afternoon responded to Mr Abbott's comment on Twitter, describing it as a "#standbystunt"_.

https://www.news.com.au/national/to...l/news-story/cd2a93328d8ca6df50da40ff49d1dcb2

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/...icising-the-pm-is-wearing-pretty-thin-2013-10
Some critics said fighting fires was not the best use of the prime minister’s time and that he was only doing it for publicity.


Scomo gets criticised for being away and Abbott was criticised for being in the front line.
Guess you just can't please some people, especially if it doesn't fit with what the virtue signalers want to put over.
Just saying.
It wouldn't have been devastating, it would have been spun in a way to make Abbott look bad, as was the want of the time.IMO


----------



## moXJO (22 December 2019)

sptrawler said:


> It wouldn't have been devastating, it would have been spun in a way to make Abbott look bad, as was the want of the time.IMO



It's all just spin in the end. Media takedowns and Twitter nobodies screeching at an opportunity.


----------



## Humid (23 December 2019)

moXJO said:


> It's all just spin in the end. Media takedowns and Twitter nobodies screeching at an opportunity.




After all that you 2 finally get it
Congrats


----------



## PZ99 (23 December 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Well this is a news report, on Tony Abbott's volunteer firefighting in 2013.
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-01-09/labor-mp-sorry-for-abbott-stunt-tweet/4458118
> From the article:
> ...



Wasn't here at the time but on another site I gave Mr Abbott full credit for that. And I give full credit for doing it now. No point in criticising people for doing something they're good at.

Scomo will be the first one to tell you that politicians will always be a student of their craft.

ie: Can't please everyone


----------



## moXJO (23 December 2019)

Humid said:


> After all that you 2 finally get it
> Congrats



And it's always the left and union members


----------



## sptrawler (23 December 2019)

Humid said:


> After all that you 2 finally get it
> Congrats



It isn't us that needs to get it.
You had better drop Albo a line, before he blows his feet off and scores an own goal.


----------



## Knobby22 (23 December 2019)

sptrawler said:


> It isn't us that needs to get it.
> You had better drop Albo a line, before he blows his feet off and scores an own goal.[emoji23]



As Albo says he is not into cheap politics. Smart.
Let the actions speak for themselves and don't become the story.


----------



## sptrawler (23 December 2019)

Knobby22 said:


> As Albo says he is not into cheap politics. Smart.
> Let the actions speak for themselves and don't become the story.



Spot on Knobby, it would be too easy to make yourself a target with these issues, as Scomo has found out.
The 24/7 news media, loves easy fodder, to fill the content and the media groupies just wait in anticipation for the next story they can whip themselves into a lather over.


----------



## Humid (23 December 2019)

moXJO said:


> And it's always the left and union members



No need for a Union when you work for Dad.....whinge to Mum lol


----------



## IFocus (23 December 2019)

This is pretty good from MacroBusiness

SmoCo and Albotross..... 

“There are moments in politics when everything that has come before is crystalised in a moment. Malcolm Turnbull branded himself a phony when he leapt into bed with the Coalition’s right wing. Tony Abbott captured himself when he recommended Prince Phillip be offered an Australian knighthood. Before him, John Howard made himself a political legend when he threw children overboard. Julia Gillard did it in her act of backstabbing. Kevin Rudd did it when he dumped climate change mitigation for Big Australia. Paul Keating branded himself forever with the “recession we had to have”. So on and so forth.

These are moments when the truth about a leader’s character is revealed for all to see and branded that way forever more. For Keating it was arrogance. For Howard it was opportunism. For Rudd it was narcissism. For Gillard it was illegitimacy. For Abbott it was archaic ineptitute. For Turnbull it was hollowness.

That moment arrived last week for Scott Morrison. He will henceforth be remembered as SmoCo, the guy that fled to Hawaii – sand, sun and Mai Tais – as his nation burned to the ground. No doubt his minders will kid themselves that he can spin his way out of it. That the marketing guru will find a new angle to shift the blame elsewhere. They are wrong.

The Morrsion Government is now covered in ash and forever will be. Over Christmas tables across the nation for the next week, SmoCo will be a combined laughing stock and object of incredulous anger. SmoCo of the “quiet Australians” has become instead the incredible vanishing PM.

In truth, it’s not all SmoCo’s fault. His party is really to blame. It has made destructive climate politics the centre of its value system for thirty years. It has unilaterally blockaded global action. It has embraced and defended carbon interests. It has ruined the debate with pseudo-science. It has trashed energy policy and twisted mitigation policy to such an extent that Australia now faces combined environmental and energy calamity. From day one, it has divided and conquered instead of uniting and acting.

It never needed to be this way. There is nothing in conservatism or economic liberalism that insists upon it. It was a political choice to create the mother of all culture wars.

All of this history has landed on SmoCo in a teeming ash rain reminiscent of the happy-go-lucky denizens of Pompeii.

That is not necessarily politcally fatal. Sometimes, circumstances can combine to fit the brand. That happened to John Howard, for instance, with successive wars.

To upend the politcal applecart, the brand must fall out of step with external circumstance, then the PM and government are rendered obsolete. For SmoCo that context is now undeniably climate change.

But the danger for the incredible vanishing PM is that his disappearing act is toxic much more widely. Australia confronts a mounting series of national crises that require deep policy policy reform in the national interest:

China is encroaching upon Australian sovereignty aggressively and persistently;
after twenty years of poor policy, the structural flaws in the economy have overtaken its capacity for effective stimulus. Stagnation in growth, profits and wages is permanent without change;
the intergenerational war is worsening as the marginalisation of youth across all features of life is now as severe as it is entrenched in jobs, the Budget, housing and climate;
the environment is a disaster on all fronts with water the crisis to follow fire next year;
and above and behind it all is mass immigration and the bonds of Australiana, which makes all of the above worse.
How can an invisible man lead a nation as such times? It takes debate. It takes ideas. It takes disruption. It takes management and the reassurance of insight.

Without these things we now know what happens. Crisis erupts anyway and instead of calm we get chaos. Instead of a plan we get careering. Instead of reassurance we get refracting anxiety. Instead of quiet we get the roar of conflagration.

The raw political problem with disappearing all of the time is that you get ahead of nothing. If the incredible vanishing PM only reappears when he is overtaken by crisis, he will only ever arrive just in time to be blamed for it.

It’s not that the polity understands this in detail. It’s worse than that. They sense it. In their bones, they know that their children and nation need more. That “it’s time” for change.

That does not make change certain. SmoCo is being aided by the Albotross around Labor’s neck. Bizarrely, that ill-omened leader has decided to become equally invisible as his re-election strategy. As is so often the case, fighting the last war.

As well, SmoCo might get lucky. It could rain for two years delivering a miraculous economic recovery with falling house prices, a flourishing of extinct species and water for Sydney, just as the Chinese Comminst Party declares peace and mass immigration falls away all by itself.

I wouldn’t bet on it.”


----------



## moXJO (23 December 2019)

Humid said:


> No need for a Union when you work for Dad.....whinge to Mum lol



How dare you. 

I'm telling dad


----------



## moXJO (23 December 2019)

IFocus said:


> This is pretty good from MacroBusiness
> 
> SmoCo and Albotross.....
> 
> ...



If he gets on with it I don't think it will be to much of an issue. Politicians make the mistake of trying to appease Twitter whinging. Best of making 1 statement and moving on. Media knows it's on a winner though, so he needs to hammer home a simple statement.


----------



## sptrawler (23 December 2019)

IFocus said:


> This is pretty good from MacroBusiness
> 
> SmoCo and Albotross.....
> 
> ...



That is probably the best summation I've read of the current status, how Morrison handles the next two years is critical for him and the Coalition, sitting on his hands and hoping for a miracle I don't think will cut it.
Having said that, I don't think shooting from the hip and helicopter money is the answer, someone has to come up with a long term economic plan for Australia and it has to include climate change and dwindling income tax receipts.
Nobody has so far.
Just my opinion.
The current holiday thing is a storm in a tea cup, those who like him say give him a break, those who dislike him, say put him on the cross.


----------



## qldfrog (23 December 2019)

I noted
"... it’s not all SmoCo’s fault. His party is really to blame. It has made destructive climate politics the centre of its value system for thirty years. "
30 years so 1990. Was that journo born then cause i can tell you hardly anyone cared about CC in the 90s, even less as politic platform
But who needs facts when talking about global warming...
Realistically, 2000 is more or less the start Al Gore movie etc


----------



## Logique (23 December 2019)

Albo - point the finger at (QLD Premier) Annastacia Palaszczuk - she's on holidays too. 

Not much from_ "their ABC"_ about this either.

Jump onto the back of a fire tanker with the volunteers Albo, you'll achieve more!


----------



## sptrawler (23 December 2019)

qldfrog said:


> I noted
> "... it’s not all SmoCo’s fault. His party is really to blame. It has made destructive climate politics the centre of its value system for thirty years. "
> 30 years so 1990. Was that journo born then cause i can tell you hardly anyone cared about CC in the 90s, even less as politic platform
> But who needs facts when talking about global warming...
> Realistically, 2000 is more or less the start Al Gore movie etc



True, but if you just ignore all the hate and vitriol, in the article it, does sum up the lack of direction by both Parties since Howard really.
The whole economy and the way it functions needs looking at, currently we just seem to be jumping around, pointing sticks at each other.
The power system, requires a huge amount of storage installed, the Government is going to have to get on with it, then the private sector can install renewables and have somewhere to store the excess. Or the private sector is going to require incentive to install storage, if the Government doesn't want to do it.

The tax system needs a massive overhaul, as a guy on here said years ago said, stamp duty on houses should be dropped and a land tax introduced to replace it.
Maybe negative gearing for investment properties could be dropped and interest on PPR for first home buyers introduced.
Personal income and company tax could be dropped, GST increased and welfare payments increased.
There is obviously a miriad of things that inter relate and should be looked at.
The rate of change in the economies of the World, is accelerating and we need to make ourselves competitive again.
Just my opinion.


----------



## qldfrog (23 December 2019)

sptrawler said:


> True, but if you just ignore all the hate and vitriol, in the article it, does sum up the lack of direction by both Parties since Howard really.
> The whole economy and the way it functions needs looking at, currently we just seem to be jumping around, pointing sticks at each other.
> The power system, requires a huge amount of storage installed, the Government is going to have to get on with it, then the private sector can install renewables and have somewhere to store the excess. Or the private sector is going to require incentive to install storage, if the Government doesn't want to do it.
> 
> ...



Oh no problem with that but let's not use fake facts to stress a point. there is enough real facts not to make up some.
Later on ,you have people believing these craps, and who is going to bother rectifying these?
I saw an article blaming the nz volcano eruption on CC last week

Back to the subject, we are indeed in dire change, labour wants to tax tax tax, whereas i would see less less spending, plus direction and planning roads energy as you pointed etc.what about reinstating cpi indexed CGT, without discount to avoid an economy of flipping?
A resource tax based on soil moved,reflecting impact etc
But yes morisson will not be the one
 When Malcolm tried to promote innovation, Australians were quick to express their lack of interest...
So this country will follow its slow descent


----------



## orr (23 December 2019)

Who wrote that Focus? it is gold..
And SmoCo has the gall to try and capture the narative; As a nation was 'anxious at his absence'. Don't make me puke.
Let it be noted the only thing the nation is anxious about is* SmoCo's continuing seemingly fathomless Ineptitude.*


----------



## wayneL (24 December 2019)

orr said:


> Who wrote that Focus? it is gold..
> And SmoCo has the gall to try and capture the narative; As a nation was 'anxious at his absence'. Don't make me puke.
> Let it be noted the only thing the nation is anxious about is* SmoCo's continuing seemingly fathomless Ineptitude.*



No mate it's only the leftist outrage mobs, people like yourself.

Not saying the rest of us don't have grievances but current histrionic are absolutely comical.


----------



## sptrawler (24 December 2019)

orr said:


> Who wrote that Focus? it is gold..
> And SmoCo has the gall to try and capture the narative; As a nation was 'anxious at his absence'. Don't make me puke.
> Let it be noted the only thing the nation is anxious about is* SmoCo's continuing seemingly fathomless Ineptitude.*



Good to see someone with a balanced outlook.lol


----------



## wayneL (24 December 2019)

Nice bit of dishonest bastardry from The Project last night too. 

Low act.


----------



## Humid (24 December 2019)

wayneL said:


> Nice bit of dishonest bastardry from The Project last night too.
> 
> Low act.




Has Sky News finished for the year?


----------



## wayneL (24 December 2019)

Humid said:


> Has Sky News finished for the year?



I don't know. I don't watch it.


----------



## frugal.rock (24 December 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Better for the Libs to tell it as it is, there is no way they have any chance of winning the next election.
> They need to get back to basics, Turnbull, should never have been there in the first place.
> It won't take long for equilibrium to be restored.IMO




Opened this thread and this was the first post I saw.
You were right about equilibrium.
Prior to this era, whenever I had a look at parliamentary question time (PQT), it was a complete farce, somewhat amusing, but disgraceful to the country. Denigrating, jeering etc.
The last few times I happened to see PQT, it was orderly and respectful.
It gave me hope in our political system again. 
Clive Palmer played a big role in keeping the libs in, but with labour wanting to get rid of Franking credits, they were trying to push clay uphill with a pointy stick. Political suicide. If you didn't know about franking credits, why would the removal of them encourage you to vote Labour?
Shortens political policy seemed to be, attempt to denigrate and negate anything else other than labour policy. 
Personally, with the negativity sprouting out of his mouth every time you would see him, I knew he was not a good leader. Lack of initiative. My 
FRock


----------



## sptrawler (24 December 2019)

frugal.rock said:


> Opened this thread and this was the first post I saw.
> You were right about equilibrium.
> Prior to this era, whenever I had a look at parliamentary question time (PQT), it was a complete farce, somewhat amusing, but disgraceful to the country. Denigrating, jeering etc.
> The last few times I happened to see PQT, it was orderly and respectful.
> ...



Unfortunately Labour's policies read like a manifesto from the Conservatives, it just appeared as though they got too close to the forest and couldn't see the trees IMO.
Somewhat like the problem the U.K just suffered.
Anyway it is all history know and it is up to Morrison and Johnson to take advantage of the opportunity presented.
The big issue is, balancing what the silent majority want and what the press and vocal sector want.
The outcome good or bad, will be worn by the Government, not those who are trying to force the issue.
Just my opinion.


----------



## wayneL (24 December 2019)

Gemma is one of the very few honest brokers in the media these days.


----------



## sptrawler (24 December 2019)

Thankfully there is a silent majority out there, that still apply independent thinking.


----------



## IFocus (24 December 2019)

orr said:


> Who wrote that Focus? it is gold..
> And SmoCo has the gall to try and capture the narative; As a nation was 'anxious at his absence'. Don't make me puke.
> Let it be noted the only thing the nation is anxious about is* SmoCo's continuing seemingly fathomless Ineptitude.*




Apparently its an extreme left wing publication (as is anyone critical of current government or Coalition ) 

They often put up some decent articles.

From the website

"MacroBusiness is Australia’s leading business, economics and investment blog. Its mission is to bridge the gulf between the Australian business media and reality."

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/

BTW they pretty much agree with your observation..........


----------



## IFocus (24 December 2019)

Here is another one stating the bleeding obvious

*Sad sacks defend SmoCo’s dereliction of duty*
By David Llewellyn-Smith in Australian Politics

at 9:20 am on December 24, 2019 | 36 comments

A dodo can see SmoCo has screwed up big time. Whether it is the simple political optics of guzzling Mai Tais in the clear air of a distant land while his country burns and chokes, the basic reality of what is expected of a leader during national crisis, or the formal structure of such. In all three cases SmoCo has failed spectacularly.

No previous Liberal leader would acted in this way.  Malcolm Turnbull would have convened summits to address need. Tony Abbott would be doing what he is already doing, aiding at the front line. John Howard was an excellent empathetic leader who rallied with great comfort for the afflicted in times of crisis.

All three would have done their duty, to co-ordinate, to explain, to comfort. SmoCo has failed on all three fronts.

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2019/12/sad-sacks-defend-smocos-dereliction-of-duty/


----------



## wayneL (24 December 2019)

What say you about our Qld premier @IFocus 

(Sorry have no idea how to spell her name)


----------



## qldfrog (24 December 2019)

wayneL said:


> What say you about our Qld premier @IFocus
> 
> (Sorry have no idea how to spell her name)



No one cares here in qld or even know her, so she can stay in holidays


----------



## qldfrog (24 December 2019)

IFocus said:


> Apparently its an extreme left wing publication (as is anyone critical of current government or Coalition )
> 
> They often put up some decent articles.
> 
> ...



Actually, this has usually quite good articles, many i have posted links to but as this was about migration here, must have been on the hide list of many here


----------



## sptrawler (25 December 2019)

IFocus said:


> Apparently its an extreme left wing publication (as is anyone critical of current government or Coalition )
> 
> .



As opposed to an extremely right wing publication, if it writes anything supportive of the current Government.
Those two statements, pretty well sums up politics today.


----------



## Smurf1976 (25 December 2019)

sptrawler said:


> The rate of change in the economies of the World, is accelerating and we need to make ourselves competitive again.



Details aside that’s what it comes down to.

We’ve completely lost focus at being competitive with anyone at anything so far as economics are concerned.


----------



## qldfrog (25 December 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> Details aside that’s what it comes down to.
> 
> We’ve completely lost focus at being competitive with anyone at anything so far as economics are concerned.



What is important is percentage of foreign aid, number of refugees accepted and wealth repartition, the fact that the actual $ pot is smaller does not seem important, cause wealth is bad
This is so absurd yet this seems to be the media especially social media story
Yet someone has to pay NDIS, and not the " riches"..we really need to start being productive again, and this does not mean H&S or PR jobs
Anyway, I am old school..
And do not bother to work anymore...


----------



## sptrawler (25 December 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> Details aside that’s what it comes down to.
> 
> We’ve completely lost focus at being competitive with anyone at anything so far as economics are concerned.



Yes this is the real issue, Australia since the mid 1960 has had a massive increase in affluence, wages have been increasing exponentially so has welfare and living standards. 
Meanwhile our industrial output has declined to the point of being non existent and our mining related employment has peaked.
I wish the well paid media personalities, would sit back and really think about the issues in what's best for Australia light, rather than a what's best for ratings light.


----------



## IFocus (26 December 2019)

sptrawler said:


> As opposed to an extremely right wing publication, if it writes* anything supportive of the current Government.*
> Those two statements, pretty well sums up politics today.




You will have to read the Murdoch press for that, realistically there is bugger all to support unless you want.....well ....bugger all.


----------



## IFocus (26 December 2019)

wayneL said:


> What say you about our Qld premier @IFocus
> 
> (Sorry have no idea how to spell her name)





Did her minders try and hide the fact?


----------



## orr (26 December 2019)

https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au.../21/the-secret-trial-witness-j/15768468009276

It warms to cockles of the heart of  any _'rabid leftist'(_ but only those empowered by the party) that the techniques of the totalitarian Old Eastern Block are now firmly embedded into new Authoritarian construction of Federal Australian Law.
Secret Trials  on secret charges of secret offenders, imprisoned secretly. Effectively disappeared whereabouts unknown to any associates of the secretly convicted. 
Witness J is one that we now know of... How many others???
What is it I hear you say Schmo??  Australians arn't to know about 'In court Matters'

Another Kafka'esque   situation that has been orchestrated to disenpower democracy.
A reading of Hannah Arendts 'the Origins of Totalitarianism' is necessary now to understand the aspiring despots of the current Federal Executive.
For this not to be of crucial concern to any citizen you'd either be on 'Koozebane' or at one with the Murdoch asylum(same place basically)


----------



## sptrawler (26 December 2019)

IFocus said:


> You will have to read the Murdoch press for that, realistically there is bugger all to support unless you want.....well ....bugger all.



If it wasn't for the Murdoch press, we would only have left wing media in total, so at least with Murdoch there is some rational debate. While on the subject of twisting the truth, apparently "the project" got into it a bit the other night.


----------



## Humid (26 December 2019)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-21/getup!-meme/7530696?pfm=ms

Debate what?


----------



## sptrawler (26 December 2019)

Humid said:


> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-21/getup!-meme/7530696?pfm=ms
> 
> Debate what?




Why Labour have lost so much of their support base and how a two term, three leader, inept Government beat them to get a third term.


----------



## Humid (26 December 2019)

As you do in a Scummo thread....nice deflection 
Own your poor decisions lol


----------



## sptrawler (26 December 2019)

Humid said:


> As you do in a Scummo thread....nice deflection
> Own your poor decisions lol



Well a debate does have to have two sides, and as for the value of the decision, we will find out in a couple of years.
Currently Im one nill, hopefully you even the score, next time


----------



## Humid (26 December 2019)

After 6 odd years it’s about time to take some responsibility for your choice but hey if it makes you feel good just keep bangin on about Labor it’s quite humorous


----------



## sptrawler (26 December 2019)

Humid said:


> After 6 odd years it’s about time to take some responsibility for your choice but hey if it makes you feel good just keep bangin on about Labor it’s quite humorous



Actually I haven't been banging on about Labour, they haven't really been seen since the election, but I do agree the Libs really haven't lit anyones light up yet either.
Other than the tax cuts, there really hasn't been anything of note, I think they will have to pick up their game if they are going to get a fourth term.
Maybe they are holding fire, rather than trying to have a major news announcement every week, which has been the style of Governments for the last ten years.
Time will tell I guess.
As for  taking responsibility for my choices, I've never had a problem with that and I wont in the future.


----------



## Smurf1976 (27 December 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Why Labour have lost so much of their support base and how a two term, three leader, inept Government beat them to get a third term.



I think the problem there is that the average Australian is fed up with being taken for a fool.

They've heard a few times too many the promises from some lobby group, politician or professor someone or other that if we do x then it'll only cost the average household $1 a month or whatever. They've seen it too many times now - we go along with it, we do whatever the grand idea is and the end result is their power bill doubles or they see ambulances ramped outside hospitals or they see workers put out of a job etc in stark contrast to what was promised.

Which brings us to a point where the ordinary person, those not in politics or "elite" occupations or of high wealth, have simply lost confidence in pretty much every institution.

Anything connected with finance, politics or the church is bottom of the pile these days so far as trust is concerned. Gone, shot to pieces, kaput. 

The justice system, public utilities and so on are tarnished at best, the former through too may stories about criminals getting away with it and the latter since they largely no longer exist. Education at all levels is similarly tarnished with standards seemingly in decline at all levels from kindergarten to university. Likewise the mainstream media is another institution whose standing has taken a battering.

What's still held in high regard and always has been? Front line health workers, fire and other emergency services personnel and the one that came up in in a recent offline discussion - Australia Post. Yep, the good ole post office is one of the few things that's been around forever and at the end of 2019 is still there, doing what it has always done, with its reputation intact apart from the odd relatively minor glitch here and there.

Then there's those in no man's land and in that group is pretty much the entire workforce that's not in any of the tarnished industries. They've risen in standing in relative terms since whilst your average garbage truck driver or architect may not know a great deal about fiscal policy, they do at least get the bins emptied and the plans drawn up reliably. Same with every other worker doing something practical either physically or in an office - there's something to be said for those who at least deliver on what they've promised to do regardless of what that actually is.

As for the Coalition versus Labor, well if the perception is that either side is only going to do more bad things then rationally you'd pick whoever seems laziest and least likely to do anything at all. There's Labor's problem - as an opposition they need to promise change from the status quo but the public simply doesn't trust that change, from anyone, is going to be better than the past decade's worth of "change" which has generally been to make things worse not better regardless of which party was in power at the time.


----------



## chiff (27 December 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> I think the problem there is that the average Australian is fed up with being taken for a fool.
> 
> They've heard a few times too many the promises from some lobby group, politician or professor someone or other that if we do x then it'll only cost the average household $1 a month or whatever. They've seen it too many times now - we go along with it, we do whatever the grand idea is and the end result is their power bill doubles or they see ambulances ramped outside hospitals or they see workers put out of a job etc in stark contrast to what was promised.
> 
> ...



I vote for the Centre Alliance.


----------



## sptrawler (27 December 2019)

chiff said:


> I vote for the Centre Alliance.



It is getting to the point, that anything is better than what is being served up by the Libs and Labour, if ever there was a need for a party with vision, now is that time.
As the recent comments on here show, Australia is so polarised at either end of the spectrum, that nothing can move forward.
If the media reporters and presenters don't agree with the issue, the debate just becomes a cesspit of disagreement, until it reaches a point where it can't move forward.
Obviously politics is going to become a short burst of change post an election, when the media have a break to regroup, because they have got it wrong again.
Once they have regrouped it all starts again, Government by media, the current political paradigm.
Just my opinion


----------



## Humid (27 December 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> I think the problem there is that the average Australian is fed up with being taken for a fool.
> 
> They've heard a few times too many the promises from some lobby group, politician or professor someone or other that if we do x then it'll only cost the average household $1 a month or whatever. They've seen it too many times now - we go along with it, we do whatever the grand idea is and the end result is their power bill doubles or they see ambulances ramped outside hospitals or they see workers put out of a job etc in stark contrast to what was promised.
> 
> ...




You just need a good salesman but can’t think of any from either side.
As bad as as Labor’s policies may have been I think at least they were trying to generate some new revenue.
The current mob are hell bent on a surplus and wondering why households are as well!


----------



## sptrawler (27 December 2019)

Humid said:


> You just need a good salesman but can’t think of any from either side.
> As bad as as Labor’s policies may have been I think at least they were trying to generate some new revenue.
> The current mob are hell bent on a surplus and wondering why households are as well!



Thats very true, the only issue is how to generate more income fairly and that is what both sides are missing the point on.


----------



## qldfrog (27 December 2019)

If our aim is to generate more government income, this is wrong
We should aim to increase the economy/country income, and ensure both government and the actors get a fair share.
Otherwise it is perpetuating the slow death by taxation that Australian centric posters seems so unaware of, while being in a World economy .
You can not afford to be uncompetitive in an economy with no trade or people barriers
And this: increasing added value and competitive Australian companies with innovation should be our key election debate, not how to tax whatever remnant of wealth we have
Anyway, Turnbull tried and i remember the comments....


----------



## Humid (27 December 2019)

We could use the yanks as a model of manufacturing 

https://www.usdebtclock.org/index.html


----------



## Smurf1976 (27 December 2019)

qldfrog said:


> We should aim to increase the economy/country income, and ensure both government and the actors get a fair share.



That we have a decline in public hospitals for example is ultimately tied to the loss of wealth creating industry.

Unfortunately few seem able to see that.


----------



## qldfrog (27 December 2019)

Humid said:


> We could use the yanks as a model of manufacturing
> 
> https://www.usdebtclock.org/index.html



Well the yank kids can dream of something else than welfare, swinging a hammer or playing AFL as a matter of personal success.


----------



## Humid (27 December 2019)

qldfrog said:


> Well the yank kids can dream of something else than welfare, swinging a hammer or playing AFL as a matter of personal success.




Like free health care......maybe you don’t get it


----------



## sptrawler (27 December 2019)

Humid said:


> Like free health care......maybe you don’t get it



I agree with your sentiment, but we can only afford free health care until we run out of money, ala Argentina, Chili, Spain, Portugal etc.
We have to focus on manufacturing, not population growth, to build our economy. IMO


----------



## Smurf1976 (27 December 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Why Labour have lost so much of their support base and how a two term, three leader, inept Government beat them to get a third term.




Not specifically a Labor one but an example of the problem is the recent calls to cancel fireworks on New Year's Eve.

What that amounts to is simply another case of those in the inner city engaging in virtue signalling and leaving everyone else with the cost. It's not fire victims or the RFS calling for it but those living in the inner most suburbs.

To cancel would be a complete waste for those who've traveled to Sydney from overseas, or to other capital cities from country areas and so on. A waste of their time and money all so that a few can feel good about themselves.

Ordinary people have a different attitude to life, more "show must go on" and not about "might offend someone" and quite frankly have had enough of this sort of thing. For heaven's sake let the damn crackers off and stop messing about.

Politically, Labor is at least perceived (wrongly or rightly) as more associated with this inner city sort of thinking than the Coalition is. They'll likely remain in opposition until they give that the flick, put a stop to the virtue signalling and get back to siding with the common man (and woman) who's more focused on practical reality than on how someone might "feel" about something that someone somewhere things is inappropriate. 

Whilst the example I've used is a local government one, it sums up the thought divide between those in the inner city and the rest pretty well I think. The rest are more worried about practical reality not whether a tiny minority doesn't like something.


----------



## sptrawler (27 December 2019)

That sums it up pretty well smurf, we seem to lost the ability to say $hit happens and just get on with it.
Now everyone has to be your friend, no one can say look this is the way it is, for fear of being shouted down.
I actually wondered when Morrison was canned for the holiday, if it was a case of him being caught between someone saying it has been a hell of a year the kids and I need a break when school holidays arrive and him thinking this could go pear shaped.
I know there has been times in my life, whe she who must be obeyed has drawn a line in the sand.
But that comes with the job, when you take public office, he has to take the bad with the good.


----------



## Smurf1976 (27 December 2019)

sptrawler said:


> I actually wondered when Morrison was canned for the holiday



I know someone who’s an actual member of the ALP and they’re decidedly unimpressed with the criticism.

As they put it - we have a Deputy PM, right? Good, now let’s focus on policy......


----------



## qldfrog (27 December 2019)

Humid said:


> Like free health care......maybe you don’t get it



Not enamoured with the US but..
What free healthcare?
4k a year mandatory insurance plus medicare and then be reimbursed of 145$ out of 2.5k dental treatment last week and that is before the crown?
mandatory ambulance subscription paid via energex bill or my out of pocket 3k after insurance cover (gold,top of range) for a serious hand cut? Sure...
I dont get it
Compare this to 100k a year  tax between one man company and own taxes for the last 20 y or so,  not counting gst regos stamp duties etc
Rate in the 40pc for what would be considered modest income everywhere else
 And need to commute to China for last 2y for my startup and leaving them 10 world patents as Australia is just interested in real estate and mining?
It is hard to swallow, indeed, maybe you don't get it?
 But in 2019, Australia is a land for losers and retirees.
Not one when you can start and grow a business
And it hurts me as much as it should hurt you 

I should have more xmas spirit...
And let's have a break, as much as you believe i don't get it, i am convinced you have no clue of the world we live now and are fixed on 40y old tell tales of a world bygone
And scomo or bowen or whoever will not change that as the population is so far off


----------



## Humid (27 December 2019)

There’s daily flights to France chief
I see nothing above but personal choices be it business or pleasure 
Private health is optional I use as a tax break nothing more.
I fly to Asia for dental and use it as a holiday still cheaper
Losers you say.....get a job in iron ore it’s booming


----------



## Smurf1976 (27 December 2019)

Humid said:


> I see nothing above but personal choices be it business or pleasure



I think the point being missed is that Australia has lost its competitiveness and tied its future to coal, iron ore and gas far too heavily.


----------



## qldfrog (28 December 2019)

Should be gov as usual but at least it is done:
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/wo...-secures-crucial-backing-20191223-p53mbe.html
none of the governments of the past 15y did anything about it as it was becoming more critical with our own sources decline; so nice to see scomo (probably initiated by Turnbull) did act on this. Better late than never.


----------



## Humid (28 December 2019)

I understand all that but the point don’t pay the bills


----------



## sptrawler (28 December 2019)

Neither does iron ore, coal and gas, when it runs out.


----------



## Humid (28 December 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Neither does iron ore, coal and gas, when it runs out.




I reckon it will outlast your income stream!


----------



## Humid (28 December 2019)

Baby boomers sitting back payin f all tax telling everyone how it should be.
You lot were at the steering wheel through the decline while the young now fight over your leftovers in the non existent job market
Hypercritical much


----------



## Smurf1976 (28 December 2019)

Humid said:


> Baby boomers sitting back payin f all tax telling everyone how it should be.
> You lot were at the steering wheel through the decline while the young now fight over your leftovers in the non existent job market
> Hypercritical much




The decline got underway in the mid-70's when the Baby Boomers were aged 10 to 30.

Few if any would've been working in any position carrying real authority in either government or business at that age. 

If would be fair to say they didn't stop it but they sure didn't commence it. Same could be said for generation X and the so-called Millennials. Didn't start it but haven't yet done anything to stop it either. 

Reality is that the number of people focused on this sort of stuff would be tiny as a portion of the population.


----------



## sptrawler (28 December 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> The decline got underway in the mid-70's when the Baby Boomers were aged 10 to 30.
> 
> Few if any would've been working in any position carrying real authority in either government or business at that age.
> 
> ...



Much easier to just point the finger and sing the media song, than think about the issue, that's the problem today.


----------



## fiftyeight (28 December 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> I think the point being missed is that Australia has lost its competitiveness and tied its future to coal, iron ore and gas far too heavily.






https://www.amazon.com.au/Why-Information-Grows-Evolution-Economies/dp/1536619086

If we dont shift to an information focused society soon, eventually the resources will run out and we will be left with no industry. 

We should be using our resources which are limited, to grow our information industries which compound with growth


----------



## Logique (1 January 2020)

So now the Morrison government will select a favoured group of fire brigade volunteers (the self-employed) and give them $300 a day - while their unemployed and retired mates on the same truck - they'll get nothing!

It's as bad a piece of weak-kneed  policy-on-the-run as I've ever seen.

It will come back to bite this government. And the Rural Fire Service, which will see many volunteers walk away.


----------



## IFocus (1 January 2020)

Logique said:


> So now the Morrison government will select a favoured group of fire brigade volunteers (the self-employed) and give them $300 a day - while their unemployed and retired mates on the same truck - they'll get nothing!
> 
> It's as bad a piece of weak-kneed  policy-on-the-run as I've ever seen.
> 
> It will come back to bite this government. And the Rural Fire Service, which will see many volunteers walk away.




I am an avid critic of Morrison and the Liberals in general but I think given the exceptional circumstances any previous Liberal PM from Turnbul, Abbott or Howard would have jumped at the chance to come up with some thing right across the board for some sort of compensation for the exceptional service these volunteers are doing not just a patch work reluctantly.


----------



## Logique (1 January 2020)

I'm just disappointed by the inequity.

Alright, exceptional circumstances - so say a one-off payment, say $100/day to _every_ participating member - but _not_ $300/day to just a select ideologically approved subset. 

It breeds resentment and division within any group. Rural fire brigades -it's overwhelmingly a volunteer organization, people join to make a contribution to their local community. 

Not to be treated like 2nd class citizens!


----------



## SirRumpole (1 January 2020)

It's a tough call. 

In my view routine firefighting is best done at the local level by people who know their  community and the individual characteristics of the land that they are protecting.

These people are volunteers and should remain so, but they should be able to call on the resources of a larger organisation like the military if the situation gets out of hand.

At the moment, the military don't have the equipment or training to fight fires, they should be so equipped by the government. Local volunteers aren't going to fly helicopters or water bombing aircraft and the military have these resources.

The Federal government is sitting on its hands. They will provide resources when asked, but they show no interest in proactive plans like giving the military the proper training and equipment to assist on the ground when required.


----------



## chiff (2 January 2020)

Logique said:


> So now the Morrison government will select a favoured group of fire brigade volunteers (the self-employed) and give them $300 a day - while their unemployed and retired mates on the same truck - they'll get nothing!
> 
> It's as bad a piece of weak-kneed  policy-on-the-run as I've ever seen.
> 
> It will come back to bite this government. And the Rural Fire Service, which will see many volunteers walk away.



Well I nominate Barnaby Joyce to be in charge of the fire enquiry etc.He moaned he was cash strapped and then got a job as drought envy.Morrison is unable to produce one report that he produced.Tis said he claimed 600k for that jaunt."Banana republic -septic isle"


----------



## moXJO (2 January 2020)

Umm no....

The payments of up to $300 per day will be available to Rural Fire Service NSW and Qld volunteers who are self-employed or work for small and medium businesses.


----------



## moXJO (2 January 2020)

Its volunteer work people. You join to help the community. But in circumstances like now, where volunteers have been working for an extended period of time then the absolutely deserve compensation if you work.


----------



## macca (2 January 2020)

I believe that each brigade has a log of who is where for safety reasons, so perhaps we use those as a basis to pay each fire fighter after X number of hours per year.

The standard week is 38 hours so after a volunteer has done 38 hours in a year they get paid $25 per hour when actually fighting a fire.

I would not count training and maintenance towards the 38 hours as they are elective hours and this then allows the volunteer to still feel like they are giving back to the community as they do now


----------



## orr (2 January 2020)

Schmo .... Text book display of a man panicing whilst desperately trying not to look like he's panicing.
Trying to 'channel' Churhill and looking like Chamberlin.  
He was at the cricket in the last day or so. Hopefully for us all he'll take a tip for the game and 'retirer hurt'.

Oh and Angus; The Feds have got the 'Garrad' File ... happy new year Gus.


----------



## IFocus (4 January 2020)

Theres a lot of material to be used


----------



## IFocus (4 January 2020)

*Dutton Calls For Turnback Of Boat Spotted Off Coast Of Mallacoota*

*https://www.theshovel.com.au/2020/0...back-of-boat-spotted-off-coast-of-mallacoota/*


----------



## IFocus (4 January 2020)

*ScoMo Declares Empathy Training A Success After Totally Nailing Meet-And-Greet*


*https://www.theshovel.com.au/2020/0...success-after-totally-nailing-meet-and-greet/*


----------



## IFocus (4 January 2020)

*Heroic PM Receives Standing Ovation From Thankful Cobargo Residents, Says Murdoch Newspapers*

*




*


*https://www.betootaadvocate.com/bre...ul-cobargo-residents-says-murdoch-newspapers/*


----------



## moXJO (4 January 2020)

IFocus said:


> *Dutton Calls For Turnback Of Boat Spotted Off Coast Of Mallacoota*
> 
> *https://www.theshovel.com.au/2020/0...back-of-boat-spotted-off-coast-of-mallacoota/*



Thats a great headline


----------



## IFocus (4 January 2020)

moXJO said:


> Thats a great headline




Yeah it appealed to my sense of humour to.


----------



## IFocus (4 January 2020)




----------



## qldfrog (4 January 2020)

Wasn't some of our virtuous left saying we should not politicise the fire.follow Albanese lead, he is at least half decent on that matter


----------



## qldfrog (4 January 2020)

macca said:


> I believe that each brigade has a log of who is where for safety reasons, so perhaps we use those as a basis to pay each fire fighter after X number of hours per year.
> 
> The standard week is 38 hours so after a volunteer has done 38 hours in a year they get paid $25 per hour when actually fighting a fire.
> 
> I would not count training and maintenance towards the 38 hours as they are elective hours and this then allows the volunteer to still feel like they are giving back to the community as they do now



Macca, training is not elective, join the local rfb and see how long and how funny this is...it is mandatory
The only plus is that this can be planned and so you do not have to take time off your work to attend
Just a note


----------



## IFocus (4 January 2020)

Worth a read 

Quite a chilling view from an outsider

NYT

Australia Is Committing Climate Suicide
As record fires rage, the country’s leaders seem intent on sending it to its doom.

"BRUNY ISLAND, Australia — Australia today is ground zero for the climate catastrophe. Its glorious Great Barrier Reef is dying, its world-heritage rain forests are burning, its giant kelp forests have largely vanished, numerous towns have run out of water or are about to, and now the vast continent is burning on a scale never before seen."

" The bookstore in the fire-ravaged village of Cobargo, New South Wales, has a new sign outside: “Post-Apocalyptic Fiction has been moved to Current Affairs.”

And yet, incredibly, the response of Australia’s leaders to this unprecedented national crisis has been not to defend their country but to defend the coal industry, a big donor to both major parties — as if they were willing the country to its doom. While the fires were exploding in mid-December, the leader of the opposition Labor Party went on a tour of coal mining communities expressing his unequivocal support for coal exports. The prime minister, the conservative Scott Morrison, went on vacation to Hawaii."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/03/opinion/australia-fires-climate-chang...


----------



## IFocus (4 January 2020)

Oh man a jingle ad for the Liberals in the middle of a extreme national crisis read the comments for Morrison's Insta.



Everyone are lining up to stick the boots in


----------



## sptrawler (4 January 2020)

I think the outcome from all this will be interesting.


----------



## IFocus (4 January 2020)

qldfrog said:


> Wasn't some of our virtuous left saying we should not politicise the fire.follow Albanese lead, he is at least half decent on that matter




Given whats happening the left have largely been silent ADF apparently furious and hard right people screaming, note not a cabinet minister to be seen other than defence.

Satire rags having a ball so much material they must think all their Xmas's have come at once.

Like the fires totally unprecedented in Australian political history.


----------



## IFocus (4 January 2020)

Hang on heres Rudd haha


----------



## sptrawler (4 January 2020)

IFocus said:


> Given whats happening the left have largely been silent ADF apparently furious and hard right people screaming, note not a cabinet minister to be seen other than defence.
> 
> Satire rags having a ball so much material they must think all their Xmas's have come at once.
> 
> Like the fires totally unprecedented in Australian political history.



It is one of those no win situations, the last thing anyone with any sense wants to do is say something, no one can sort it and only one party has to wear it.
Labour for once is doing exactly the right thing and saying F#@$ all, which is most unusual and a breath of fresh air.IMO
If Albo says anything he will make himself a target, let Scomo cop the heat, he is wearing the sherrif badge.
Albo is showing some maturity, which Labour has lacked for a long time. Thank god Kev isnt the Labour leader ATM.
Just my opinion.


----------



## IFocus (4 January 2020)

Yikes


----------



## IFocus (4 January 2020)

Then this

https://www.environment.gov.au/syst...es/20100630-climate-fire-biodiversity-pdf.pdf

Check this passage from the Garnaut Climate Change Review:


----------



## qldfrog (4 January 2020)

We all know that if the greens had voted the carbon tax, we would be under pouring icy rain....
You do realise that there is most probability we will have flooding within 6 years all around us too?
What does this bring in?
Did you celebrate and crack champagne at 9/11, or with the NZ earthquake as it happened under a right government?
Do you genuinely, i mean genuinely believe that with shorten in charge anything , any extra live or house would have been saved?
Actually feeling quite disgusted, but not surprised. A culture of hate and envy


----------



## sptrawler (4 January 2020)

Dont worry frog, this will be the making, or the undoing of Scomo, how he handles this will dictate his future.
The left may yet find it all backfires in their face, the media seem to be toning it down a bit, maybe they have thought it through, who knows.


----------



## SirRumpole (4 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Dont worry frog, this will be the making, or the undoing of Scomo, how he handles this will dictate his future.
> The left may yet find it all backfires in their face, the media seem to be toning it down a bit, maybe they have thought it through, who knows.




He's already stuffed up by waiting so long and not listening to the experts who have been saying for years that this sort of thing was coming.


----------



## IFocus (4 January 2020)

Nothing to do with climate, left, right or media.

Why not address the cluster this fool is making of himself or do you fully support his actions (zero) and behaviour?


----------



## sptrawler (4 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> He's already stuffed up by waiting so long and not listening to the experts who have been saying for years that this sort of thing was coming.



I dont think so, how it all unfolds will very much decide his fate, but ATM the hounds are baying and frothing at the mouth, but as has been proven in the past the hounds sometimes are found to be lacking.
As I said earlier, Albo seems to be showing the most sense ATM IMO.


----------



## moXJO (5 January 2020)

IFocus said:


> Nothing to do with climate, left, right or media.
> 
> Why not address the cluster this fool is making of himself or do you fully support his actions (zero) and behaviour?




One of the greatest foot in mouth moments  I've ever seen. When you have Rudd scoring points off you, you know you really messed up.


----------



## chiff (5 January 2020)

One positive that has come out of it,probably temporarily,is that events have knocked the ever-present smirk off Morrison's dial.
I wonder if the multi-million dollar Captain Cook extravaganza will be minimised now?Should be.


----------



## IFocus (5 January 2020)

No one is saying anything and it may still come out but the states must be exacerbated by the mess as they try to battle literal war zones.

Credit to Gladys cannot spell her name and her team (exceptions of the minister for emergency services looks like a drop kick) as they bat away the political questions and just trying to get on with the job at hand.


----------



## Knobby22 (5 January 2020)

ScoMo is now known world wide as Scotty from Marketing. 

Looks like he is stuck with his new nickname especially after the latest marketing effort/video.


----------



## Logique (5 January 2020)

IFocus said:


> No one is saying anything and it may still come out but the states must be exacerbated by the mess as they try to battle literal war zones.
> Credit to Gladys cannot spell her name and her team (exceptions of the minister for emergency services looks like a drop kick) as they bat away the political questions and just trying to get on with the job at hand.



NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian has provided exceptional leadership throughout the crisis. Calm, measured, consistent (& present!)


----------



## Knobby22 (5 January 2020)

Logique said:


> NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian has provided exceptional leadership throughout the crisis. Calm, measured, consistent (& present!)



Daniel Andrews, Victorian Premier has been doing a good job, though I think his task is easier.

Scott Morrison has gone to get advice from John Howard today according to David Speers on the ABC. Good idea.


----------



## sptrawler (5 January 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> ScoMo is now known world wide as Scotty from Marketing.
> 
> Looks like he is stuck with his new nickname especially after the latest marketing effort/video.



That's good all of our PM's have been given  disparaging titles, it is something we are very good at, taking the pizz out of people in high positions.
It is in our DNA, just read any of our papers or watch any of our current affairs programes for the last 20 years, everyone gets a serve. 
We would be the Worlds leaders at taking the pizz out of our own. 
Tell me one Australian leader of either party that hasn't been ridiculed?


----------



## sptrawler (5 January 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Daniel Andrews, Victorian Premier has been doing a good job, though I think his task is easier.
> .



Well China has a vested interest, in making sure he doesn't burn down their infrastructure.


----------



## IFocus (5 January 2020)

Logique said:


> NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian has provided exceptional leadership throughout the crisis. Calm, measured, consistent (& present!)




Thanks for the spelling "Gladys Berejiklian" I hope her health is OK some of the footage she looks quite unwell.


----------



## Knobby22 (6 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Well China has a vested interest, in making sure he doesn't burn down their infrastructure.[emoji23]



Luckily they have Darwin Port outside the bushfire area.


----------



## dutchie (6 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> .
> It is in our DNA




Lamentedly (from grumpy old bastard viewpoint) as our population changes so does our DNA (but that's another story and off topic)


----------



## basilio (6 January 2020)

Creative way of enabling all  political parties to tackle CC adaptation and mitigation on a united basis.
Maybe..
*The bushfire crisis has given the Government a political 'out' to its climate change problem*

*....    You need to lead*
It could be the turning point for Australia's climate change politics and policy that is so deeply in the ditch. 
It could allow Government politicians to discard their past destructive stance on climate change, and give the opposition an opportunity to look to the future.

How climate change has impacted the world since your childhood


Global warming is already changing the world before our eyes — let's see what has happened in your lifetime, and what's in store for your future. 
So dear Prime Minister and Cabinet, please find it within yourselves to drop the old anti-climate change stance. 

You have created the perception of being aloof, uncaring and ineffective on the fires. This was epitomised in the way the Prime Minister turned his back on a resident of fire-ravaged Cobargo when she pleaded for help and the partisan way of going about the announcement of the federal measures. 

You will need to lead, and that means showing concern and acknowledging that climate change is a huge issue for Australia.

And you will need to pivot on climate change policy. You've been politically locked into a no-action position, but the bushfires give you the reason to change. The bulk of Australia's business community will be behind you, they yearn for sensible national climate policy. 

You can make it your mission to protect the country from harm, an essential conservative cause. 

Your biggest problem will be the Murdoch media, some rabid backbenchers and some coal companies. But you are in charge, right?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-06/bushfires-climate-change-opportunity-to-change/11839530


----------



## IFocus (6 January 2020)

David Speers free of the Murdoch shackles

When it comes to political clumsiness, the Prime Minister's Hawaiian holiday was hard to top.

But the Liberal Party advertisement released late yesterday, as dozens of communities faced horror bushfire conditions, came close.

The ad shows Scott Morrison in the field, taking charge (angry locals refusing to shake his hand are nowhere to be seen). Firefighters battle the flames with abundant support from Defence Force personnel and aerial assets. The Federal Government's contributions are proudly listed in on-screen text. Uplifting background music instils confidence that this is a man with a plan.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/threads/the-scomo-government.34197/page-56


----------



## SirRumpole (6 January 2020)

IFocus said:


> David Speers free of the Murdoch shackles
> 
> When it comes to political clumsiness, the Prime Minister's Hawaiian holiday was hard to top.
> 
> ...




He's a complete joke. We need a visionary leader not a marketing stooge.


----------



## Humid (7 January 2020)

A good read

https://www.crikey.com.au/2019/12/20/2019-failed-system-citizens-bereft/


----------



## moXJO (7 January 2020)

Humid said:


> A good read
> 
> https://www.crikey.com.au/2019/12/20/2019-failed-system-citizens-bereft/



Good article that sums up our situation. Surprising read for crikey.


----------



## SirRumpole (7 January 2020)

Craig Kelly savaged by Piers Morgan on Good Morning Britain.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01...s-climate-change-linked-to-bushfires/11846604


----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2020)

Humid said:


> A good read
> 
> https://www.crikey.com.au/2019/12/20/2019-failed-system-citizens-bereft/



The issue that kept getting repeated was very true, 'it doesn't matter, if the politician has what is best for the Country, at heart'.
As with most people, in most professions, there are only a few that put personal gain second to doing a good job.IMO
As the U.S shows, it isn't the political structure that is at fault, it is the way the politicians do their job that is the failing.


----------



## chiff (7 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Craig Kelly savaged by Piers Morgan on Good Morning Britain.
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01...s-climate-change-linked-to-bushfires/11846604



That Morrison intervened to save Craig Kelly's preselection maybe confirms he is a fellow traveller on the CC denail bus.


----------



## SirRumpole (7 January 2020)

chiff said:


> That Morrison intervened to save Craig Kelly's preselection maybe confirms he is a fellow traveller on the CC denail bus.




Or that Morrison is dead scared of the Right in his party.


----------



## chiff (7 January 2020)

moXJO said:


> Good article that sums up our situation. Surprising read for crikey.



The centre alliance tried to get a vote up for a Federal ICAC...that was voted down by both of the major parties.I guess an ICAC could investigate retrospectively.That would have them all running for cover.It is hard to have respect for a lot of politicians.You may well call parliament coward's castle but I much prefer dogshite heaven.


----------



## PZ99 (7 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Or that Morrison is dead scared of the Right in his party.



More likely out of the party. Don't forget Rupert Murdoch is our unelected head of state.


----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2020)

PZ99 said:


> More likely out of the party. Don't forget Rupert Murdoch is our unelected head of state.



I think you put way to much importance on Australia.


----------



## PZ99 (7 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I think you put way to much importance on Australia.



Someone's gotta do it. Especially if Australia is going to be held to ransom by some corrupt clown from within the corporatocracy and outside of the country...



sptrawler said:


>



Yoga for beginners ?


----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2020)

PZ99 said:


> Someone's gotta do it. Especially if Australia is going to be held to ransom by some corrupt clown from within the corporatocracy and outside of the country...
> 
> 
> Yoga for beginners ?



I actually think Murdoch probably gives as much thought to Australia, as we do to outer Botswana, we may have some junior miners and explorers there but do we really care?
I think there is a huge amount more political involvement, by the other media in Australia, than by Murdoch. But I don't care either way, I try and develop my own opinions on political merit rather than journalistic opinion.
I actually take a lot more counsel from the posters on here and their opinion, than what is written in newspaper opinion columns, at least it is debated here by people from varying backgrounds and experiences. 
In the newspapers it is one persons take on a given subject.
Just my opinion.


----------



## PZ99 (7 January 2020)

I think your first sentence sums it up. Murdoch doesn't think about Australia at all.

All he thinks about is maximising the amount of money taken out of our country by using his political party disguised as media outlets to undermine our democracy and government.

Not the sort of thing I want my taxes supporting.


----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2020)

PZ99 said:


> I think your first sentence sums it up. Murdoch doesn't think about Australia at all.
> 
> All he thinks about is maximising the amount of money taken out of our country by using his political party disguised as media outlets to undermine our democracy and government.
> 
> Not the sort of thing I want my taxes supporting.



I haven't looked into it, but I would think Murdoch's earnings from Australia are a minor portion of their income.
Like I said, I think we have a very high opinion of our relative worth in the World.
Just my opinion.


----------



## PZ99 (7 January 2020)

If Murdoch's takings from here are a minor % of their revenue then that makes it worse because it makes his trolling of our political system disproportionately pointless.

Personally I don't care how much money someone has. But if they use their wealth to corrupt our governments and policies and laws then I think they need to called to account.


----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2020)

PZ99 said:


> If Murdoch's takings from here are a minor % of their revenue then that makes it worse because it makes his trolling of our political system disproportionately pointless.
> 
> Personally I don't care how much money someone has. But if they use their wealth to corrupt our governments and policies and laws then I think they need to called to account.



Just looking at the headlines, in the various daily papers online, I would say there are far worse trolling going on than the Murdoch press.
But it probably depends, if you agree with the trolling or not, if the trolling aligns with your personal beliefs it is probably classed as news .


----------



## PZ99 (7 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Just looking at the headlines, in the various daily papers online, I would say there are far worse trolling going on than the Murdoch press.
> But it probably depends, if you agree with the trolling or not.



Obviously it depends upon your own point of view and beliefs. I would say there is far worse trolling going from the Murdoch press than anywhere else, and that's over a long period of time.

I remember a Murdoch owned newspaper influenced an election by posting birthday suit pics of Pauline Hanson which turned out to be fakes afterwards. Campaigns against Turnbull, Rudd etc

It's all there on the record


----------



## IFocus (7 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Just looking at the headlines, in the various daily papers online, I would say there are far worse trolling going on than the Murdoch press.




I read the Australian most days and am continually surprised by many of the opinion peaces extremely poor quality and the gymnastics that go on to put the Coalition in a good light and how the commies are going to over run us.

There really isn't any other media group or publication that follows this business model in Australia.

A good example of how crazy the Murdoch empire suppresses its journalists is David Speers latest writing after leaving.


----------



## Humid (7 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I haven't looked into it, but I would think Murdoch's earnings from Australia are a minor portion of their income.
> Like I said, I think we have a very high opinion of our relative worth in the World.
> Just my opinion.




https://www.smh.com.au/business/the...d-s-biggest-lng-exporter-20200106-p53p5h.html


----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2020)

PZ99 said:


> Obviously it depends upon your own point of view and beliefs. I would say there are far worse trolling going from the Murdoch press than anywhere else, and that's over a long period of time.
> 
> I remember a Murdoch owned newspaper influenced an election by posting birthday suit pics of Pauline Hanson which turned out to be fakes afterwards. Campaigns against Turnbull, Rudd etc
> 
> It's all there on the record



Just check the SMH or AGe any day of the week, but in reality it really doesn't bother me, they all probably balance each other out.
The reality is, the voters have their say and as was shown last election, it isn't always what everyone expects.
I think your observation, that the working class are the swinging voters is absolutely correct and i think they get their information from all sources.
Newspapers and the T.V current affairs programmes don't have the effect they once had, now with social media the young don't read newspapers and don't watch current affairs, from my observations. I know my middle aged children don't, the guys down at the local pub don't and we don't.
So really the only people actively engaged, are those that watch T.V or reading the papers for positive confirmation of their beliefs, sort of preaching to the converted.


----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2020)

Humid said:


> https://www.smh.com.au/business/the...d-s-biggest-lng-exporter-20200106-p53p5h.html



Sorry I wasn't meaning it in a monetary context.


----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2020)

IFocus said:


> I read the Australian most days and am continually surprised by many of the opinion peaces extremely poor quality and the gymnastics that go on to put the Coalition in a good light and how the commies are going to over run us.
> 
> There really isn't any other media group or publication that follows this business model in Australia.
> 
> A good example of how crazy the Murdoch empire suppresses its journalists is David Speers latest writing after leaving.



I never read it.
But with regard your comments, just read the SMH to get a counter opinion on the above, so it should balance.
I read the stock tipping section, in the complimentary Sunday Times, while I'm having my seniors coffee at Maccas.


----------



## PZ99 (7 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Just check the SMH or AGe any day of the week, but in reality it really doesn't bother me, they all probably balance each other out.
> The reality is, the voters have their say and as was shown last election, it isn't always what everyone expects.
> I think your observation, that the working class are the swinging voters is absolutely correct and i think they get their information from all sources.
> Newspapers and the T.V current affairs programmes don't have the effect they once had, now with social media the young don't read newspapers and don't watch current affairs, from my observations. I know my middle aged children don't, the guys down at the local pub don't and we don't.
> So really the only people actively engaged, are those that watch T.V or reading the papers for positive confirmation of their beliefs, sort of preaching to the converted.



That's all fair enough but when you have a Murdoch backed group undermining our PM and ultimately getting him replaced halfway through a term I think that's a problem because the voters don't get their say. That's why Murdoch came to Australia for a few weeks before it all happened and left afterwards. And this info is coming from within the empire itself - not something the ABC cooked up.

I think we are looking at a royal commission into that group in the not too distant future.

It's utterly corrupt and needs to get blown up.


----------



## qldfrog (7 January 2020)

PZ99 said:


> Obviously it depends upon your own point of view and beliefs. I would say there is far worse trolling going from the Murdoch press than anywhere else, and that's over a long period of time.
> 
> I remember a Murdoch owned newspaper influenced an election by posting birthday suit pics of Pauline Hanson which turned out to be fakes afterwards. Campaigns against Turnbull, Rudd etc
> 
> It's all there on the record



Thanks God we have their ABC for unbiaised news


----------



## qldfrog (7 January 2020)

I thought news ltd was Murdoch?
When you see the CC brainwashing they do, i think our ABC friends should add the link to their feed again..


----------



## qldfrog (7 January 2020)

ABC disguised crap
News full on crap..and Kardashian...
But i agree ABC has more class and when you can find a non propaganda article, can sometimes even be decent


----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2020)

PZ99 said:


> That's all fair enough but when you have a Murdoch backed group undermining our PM and ultimately getting him replaced halfway through a term I think that's a problem because the voters don't get their say. That's why Murdoch came to Australia for a few weeks before it all happened and left afterwards. And this info is coming from within the empire itself - not something the ABC cooked up.
> 
> I think we are looking at a royal commission into that group in the not too distant future.
> 
> It's utterly corrupt and needs to get blown up.



Well you had that with Abbott and now they are starting on Morrison, the only one that they didn't hammer was Turnbull. 
But that was because, they were the ones that were pushing to have him replace Abbott.
It happens on all sides, to think it only happens one way, I find is adjusting reality.
Just my opinion and as I said I don't think in reality it makes any difference, I thought Labour were a shoe in last election so did the press, shows people aren't muppets.


----------



## IFocus (7 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I never read it.
> But with regard your comments, just read the SMH to get a counter opinion on the above, so it should balance.




Afraid its not balance, most of the media report on the failings of the government and lets face it there is a never ending supply of material (Morrisons holiday what a disaster)plus Labor don't get a free ride ask Shorten, Rudd or Gillard but note they aren't in government not that you would know it according to Murdoch press.

Its actually quite rare I seen one of the big organisations really cook the truth.

Over at the Murdoch press cooking the truth is daily sport and you only hear how wonderful the Coalition are and how nasty those Laborites are that's not balance.


----------



## PZ99 (7 January 2020)

The ABC didn't actively take down Abbott - he hung himself with his performance.



qldfrog said:


> Thanks God we have their ABC for unbiaised news




The funny thing is... most people think the ABC is unbiased


----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2020)

IFocus said:


> Afraid its not balance, most of the media report on the failings of the government and lets face it there is a never ending supply of material (Morrisons holiday what a disaster)plus Labor don't get a free ride ask Shorten, Rudd or Gillard but note they aren't in government not that you would know it according to Murdoch press.
> 
> Its actually quite rare I seen one of the big organisations really cook the truth.
> 
> Over at the Murdoch press cooking the truth is daily sport and you only hear how wonderful the Coalition are and how nasty those Laborites are that's not balance.



Well I'm surprised you read it everyday.
With regard Rudd and Gillard IMO, they were frustrated actors, who could only get on stage through politics Turnbull IMO falls into the same catergory. Shorten I feel a bit sorry for I think he meant well but had too many people in his ear.
With regard Morrison and the holiday, well I have been married for 43 years and have four kids.
With Morrison having two kids in high school and the year they have had, I guess he was under a bit of family pressure. If he new the fires were going to get out of control as they did, he may have done it differently, $hit happens.
He has worn it, times move on, in the scheme of things it wont be what defines his term in office IMO.
It will be more important how he deals with the aftermath, rather than not being here in the begining, the only ones who are taking notice of the later are the press and those that follow the press.


----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2020)

PZ99 said:


> The ABC didn't actively take down Abbott - he hung himself with his performance.
> 
> 
> 
> The funny thing is... most people think the ABC is unbiased



I never mentioned the ABC, you have, funny that.
I was thinking more the SMH and AGE, I don't watch current affairs or news.
Only what I can get for free on the internet, I wouldn't pay for any of the rubbish, reporting in Australia is reflective of our education system appalling. IMO


----------



## PZ99 (7 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I never mentioned the ABC, you have, funny that.



I never said you did.


----------



## chiff (7 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Well I'm surprised you read it everyday.
> With regard Rudd and Gillard IMO, they were frustrated actors, who could only get on stage through politics. Shorten I feel a bit sorry for I think he meant well but had too many people in his ear.
> With regard Morrison and the holiday, well I have been married for 43 years and have four kids.
> With Morrison having two kids in high school and the year they have had, I guess he was under a bit of family pressure. If he new the fires were going to get out of control as they did, he may have done it differently, $hit happens.
> He has worn it, times move on, in the scheme of things it wont be what defines his term in office IMO.



My wife goes on holidays without me ,at my insistence.She has been to Bali three times I think,Fiji,Penang,Gold Coast and Newcastle.All with members of our family.I stay home to look after our blind dog (born blind).Morrison did not get his priorities in the right place.I have been married for 50 years.Morrison also did it in secret.That he complained about Nixon having a lunch whilst there were  fires in Victoria puts him right in the firing line for criticism.The fires were large enough at the time to have priority.


----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2020)

chiff said:


> My wife goes on holidays without me ,at my insistence.She has been to Bali three times I think,Fiji,Penang,Gold Coast and Newcastle.All with members of our family.I stay home to look after our blind dog (born blind).Morrison did not get his priorities in the right place.I have been married for 50 years.Morrison also did it in secret.That he complained about Nixon having a lunch whilst there were  fires in Victoria puts him right in the firing line for criticism.The fires were large enough at the time to have priority.



Everyone's different and with hindsight would no doubt sometimes do things differently and everyone has the right to chose how they view an incident, that's the good thing about opinions we all have different ones.


----------



## qldfrog (7 January 2020)

chiff said:


> My wife goes on holidays without me ,at my insistence.She has been to Bali three times I think,Fiji,Penang,Gold Coast and Newcastle.All with members of our family.I stay home to look after our blind dog (born blind).Morrison did not get his priorities in the right place.I have been married for 50 years.Morrison also did it in secret.That he complained about Nixon having a lunch whilst there were  fires in Victoria puts him right in the firing line for criticism.The fires were large enough at the time to have priority.



So our Qld Premier will deserve the same treatment?


----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2020)

chiff said:


> My wife goes on holidays without me ,at my insistence.She has been to Bali three times I think,Fiji,Penang,Gold Coast and Newcastle.All with members of our family..



I can sympathise, I'm currently sitting here babysitting two primary school kids, a deaf dog, a dog for the deaf(service dog) and a ancient cat, while my daughter is on holiday in Bali with her deaf friends. The only problem I have is, the wife didn't go with her  lucky there is no text to speech on this computer.


----------



## IFocus (7 January 2020)

Talking of material these guys are having a ball








https://www.theshovel.com.au/2020/0...ra-tv-commercials-to-help-fight-new-blazes-﻿/


----------



## IFocus (7 January 2020)




----------



## IFocus (7 January 2020)




----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2020)

For a more balanced view, than those running an agenda.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01...s-climate-change-linked-to-bushfires/11846604

It obviously is caused by several things, one of which is climate change, but to constantly say climate change is the only cause, is just as bad as those saying it has no effect.
It is just one lunatic against another, that is the problem with having extreme beliefs and or agendas.IMO
The press just take the side that is easiest to sell.


----------



## IFocus (7 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> For a more balanced view, than those running an agenda.
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01...s-climate-change-linked-to-bushfires/11846604
> 
> ...




My issue isn't if the current fires are a direct result of climate change (certainly playing a part) but more that this is the future on a good day.

The thought that my kids / grand kids will face extremes far beyond what we are seeing now is terrifying.

Almost certainly Australians will become climate refugees some time in the future.

This is what we are handing on after how many decades of warnings?

I honestly don't think meaningful action will be taken in time big money and its foot solders will ensure that to be the case.


----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2020)

IFocus said:


> My issue isn't if the current fires are a direct result of climate change (certainly playing a part) but more that this is the future on a good day.
> 
> The thought that my kids / grand kids will face extremes far beyond what we are seeing now is terrifying.
> 
> ...



Even if we shut Australia down tomorrow completely, it would change nothing, we are changing over to renewables as fast as the grid can cope with.
Unless there is a global shift especially with the U.S, China and Europe, nothing will change.

I really think we are well on the way to becoming the World leader, in transitioning from fossil fuel generation to renewables, but we wont be able to do it if we wreck our power network and lose reliability and stability.
As I posted up earlier in the power system thread, it looked as though molten salt storage was going to be the answer, but the best performing one Crescent Dune has gone belly up.
We were well down the track of installing one in S.A, fortunately it didn't go ahead, as the technology has been found wanting and very expensive generation wise. 
To further highlight the problem, a white paper the left were pushing early last as the roadmap to renewables, had molten salt storage as the backbone of the grid, I guess that roadmap will be in the bottom draw now.

So for the media to just keep feeding the chooks, so they can rant on endlessly, will in the end make the public tone deaf to the reality.

It really is a shame that it has been made such a political issue, because there would be much more progress made if all the energy was spent in discussing what realistically can be done in a sensible timeframe, then everyone would know what really can be done and ensure the timeframes are met.
Currently all we have is one side saying just do it and do it now, and the other side saying it will take time, it is about time the media actually addressed the reality rather than whipping up emotions.
Just my opinion.


----------



## Knobby22 (7 January 2020)

So SP do you think we should aim for no.1 polluter position in the world per person rather than being second best? I think we can do it. We are almost there already.
I hate being second.


----------



## ghotib (7 January 2020)

IFocus said:


> My issue isn't if the current fires are a direct result of climate change (certainly playing a part) but more that this is the future on a good day.
> ...
> This is what we are handing on after how many decades of warnings?...



Takes a galah to say what I'm thinking  Thanks Bird.


----------



## basilio (7 January 2020)

IFocus said:


> My issue isn't if the current fires are a direct result of climate change (certainly playing a part) but more that this is the future on a good day.
> 
> The thought that my kids / grand kids will face extremes far beyond what we are seeing now is terrifying.
> 
> ...



Neatly, sadly summed up.   
To be a bit more pointed we don't have to wait for our our kids and grandkids to see the extremes of CC.
Ten-twenty years will be plenty of time to see accelerating change


----------



## Smurf1976 (7 January 2020)

IFocus said:


> Thanks for the spelling "Gladys Berejiklian" I hope her health is OK some of the footage she looks quite unwell.




I don't know what she looked like before the fire crisis, I don't pay attention to NSW politics normally, but at a guess she's probably completely exhausted both mentally and physically by the whole fire situation as will be many.


----------



## qldfrog (7 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Even if we shut Australia down tomorrow completely, it would change nothing, we are changing over to renewables as fast as the grid can cope with.
> Unless there is a global shift especially with the U.S, China and Europe, nothing will change.
> 
> I really think we are well on the way to becoming the World leader, in transitioning from fossil fuel generation to renewable, but we wont be able to do it if we wreck our power network and lose reliability and stability.
> ...



Sp, you are a bit behind, only India and China matters, the rest of the world is peanuts: follow the 80/20 rules
What I found incredible in this debate is that everyone has the choice, today in Australia, anyone can be 0 emission:
green energy, EV, all electric house appliance, eat local produce and compensate by green credits your clothing and other side emissions
The hypocrites...

Why is it that the zealots always want the states,  the others to handle their own responsibilities
is it not that they perfectly know that no one wants to hear their speech or do the sacrifices;
all these Greta fans driving V6 landcruisers and range rovers
So personal question:
@Knobby22 : *are you zero emission?, you your family? and if not why not?
Why can you not do it under a scomo government?
*
And @Knobby22, it is not just you:
the basilio and red army member  of the world should be able to answer that question and if it is not yet, just shut up until their dictatorship takes over
My household probably emit less than them since i stopped commuting monthly to China

And if you are not because it will not change the Australian contribution a iota (true), why would Australia as a whole need to be neutral 
as we all know unless you are reading the Guardian or have an IQ of 80 that it will not change a thing overall
All that assuming that CO2 emissions are the main CC contributor which I think is BS, but I am ok to be wrong and work on the premises (as it is good for the planet overall unless we replace CO2 with nuclear)
We are still in a globally capitalist world and if there is a demand , there is provision
The choice is yours


----------



## Smurf1976 (7 January 2020)

qldfrog said:


> What I found incredible in this debate is that everyone has the choice, today in Australia, anyone can be 0 emission



I see this a lot especially online.

Plenty of people will rant about climate change. Then on the same forum once someone says something about heat pump water heaters or fuel efficient cars the predictable excuses start flowing:

*Doesn't work if it's below -20'C for more than 19 hours per day.

*ROI isn't high enough.

*The ROI is high but look it's only $1500 a year and not worth worrying about. Get the more polluting one instead.

And so on. Basically every excuse under the sun to avoid doing something even when it would save money or have other benefits. Sad but true.


----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> So SP do you think we should aim for no.1 polluter position in the world per person rather than being second best? I think we can do it. We are almost there already.
> I hate being second.



I really don't understand what you mean, we are transitioning and I said I think we will be first to complete the transition. So reconciling that, with what you are saying I am finding difficult, especially when you have an electrical background.
I thought in #1154 I explained some of the issues reasonably, if you with an electrical background can't understand them, it probably explains why the layman is so easily confused.


----------



## Knobby22 (7 January 2020)

As a country we produce more greenhouses gases for each person individually than almost anywhere in the world.

Also we are among the slowest to transition amongst the developed nations and actually joined forces with Brazil (the guy chopping down the rainforests) and Saudi Arabia (the Prince) to try to reduce our obligations at the most recent climate conference.

Britain under the Conservatives for comparison has become coal free for electricity generation over the last ten years.


----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2020)

qldfrog said:


> Sp, you are a bit behind, only India and China matters, the rest of the world is peanuts: follow the 80/20 rules
> What I found incredible in this debate is that everyone has the choice, today in Australia, anyone can be 0 emission:
> green energy, EV, all electric house appliance, eat local produce and compensate by green credits your clothing and other side emissions
> The hypocrites...
> ...



Spot on Frog, even Bas hasn't bought an electric car yet, but wants everyone else to sort it out.


----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> As a country we produce more greenhouses gases for each person individually than almost anywhere in the world.



As I said we are reducing and changing over the fastest also, like I said if you can't understand the issues, how can the layman expect to?
As Frog has said, have you done the best you can to mitigate your emmissions?
In reality, if everyone got rid of their t.v's and went back to a radio, went down to a small fridge and walked to the shop more often, then got rid of their air conditioners and went back to ceiling fans, a lot of coal fired generation could be shut down tomorrow.
Installed solar panels, and used public transport or a bicycle, more could be shut down. The reality is the electricity, is only supplying our demand.


----------



## Knobby22 (7 January 2020)

Its true though.
We are amongst the slowest transition.
We are the second worst probably heading for worst over the next 3 years.
Don't believe me look it up.

It's shameful and you can expect other countries to look down on us for this.
We are not pulling our weight.


----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Britain under the Conservatives for comparison has become coal free for electricity generation over the last ten years.



Another bogus argument that doesn't compare apples with apples, if we can chuck in some nuclear we could be coal free in the very near future.


----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Its true though.
> We are amongst the slowest transition.
> We are the second worst probably heading for worst over the next 3 years.
> Don't believe me look it up.



Well untill we can get some storage organised, we still require generation overnight, the U.K has the ability to import power from overseas, has heaps of gas, has nuclear and a very concentrated population.
So how can that in anyway, draw lines of comparison with the Australian grid?
You are electrical aren't you?
What is shame full is the fact we are one of the heaviest users per person, that is down to our affluence, but rather than tone down our usage we want someone to make it clean for us.
That is what makes Australia what it is today and you are right, we should be ashamed of our selfishness.


----------



## Knobby22 (7 January 2020)

Here is the UK under the Conservatives.

Look at this link. 75% of their power came from coal in 1990.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe...more-like-three-quarters-20200101-p53o71.html


----------



## SirRumpole (7 January 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Here is the UK under the Conservatives.
> 
> Look at this link. 75% of their power came from coal in 1990.
> 
> https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe...more-like-three-quarters-20200101-p53o71.html




38% from gas, still a fossil fuel.


----------



## Knobby22 (7 January 2020)

Biomass burning also. That  also counts in my view.
Only just over 50% renewables.
Still way better than us.


----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Here is the UK under the Conservatives.
> 
> Look at this link. 75% of their power came from coal in 1990.
> 
> https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe...more-like-three-quarters-20200101-p53o71.html



FFS selective tripe by SMH, I thought you had an electrical background, if you are going to show something show something relevant. You know the SMH is going to try and push the buttons on as many muppets as possible.
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/data-portal/electricity-generation-mix-quarter-and-fuel-source-gb
At best wind/solar 20%, biomass 7%
The rest GAS/NUCLEAR/IMPORT.
Why don't you research government when possible, rather than the rarra SMH


----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Biomass burning also. That  also counts in my view.
> Only just over 50% renewables.
> Still way better than us.



What was that on a good day, with the wind behind it.
You obviously can read charts and understand spot data, otherwise you wouldn't be investing.
It's a bit like saying mincor had a core sample intersect that said 15% nickel and everyone jumps in, then it comes out it was over a 2mm section.
Does it really have to be this hard?
By the way the data I posted was correct as of Oct 2019, when was yours from?
Or should I say, what time of what day?


----------



## qldfrog (7 January 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Its true though.
> We are amongst the slowest transition.
> We are the second worst probably heading for worst over the next 3 years.
> Don't believe me look it up.
> ...



So are you pulling  YOUR weight
One of two things: either the country contribution does not count, it is the per person count
Or it is by country in which case, we do not count
Is the uncomfortable truth that YOU push out more co2 than an indian or a chinese
YOU being any of these so enlighted but so science ignorant that rant day by day here or on any FB page
They ave THE TRUTH..how dare they...
So specifically, do you consume non green energy, if so why?
You can pretend, i will not check
And why is it scomo s fault?


----------



## Knobby22 (7 January 2020)

We are not comparing with the Chinese or Indians as they are still developing but we certainly cannot lecture them.



Obviously if we improve our energy mix we will improve our performance.

We can also improve our building standards, mandatory double glazed glass for instance.

Run an emission scheme rather than subsidising coal and let the market sort it out.

We are doing a few things but paying for it through our taxes, totally bonkers.


----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> We are not comparing with the Chinese or Indians but we certainly cannot lecture them.
> 
> We are comparing our output with fully developed nations.
> 
> ...



So now go go all feral on me, WTF post up some more rubbish and I will respond, otherwise trust me we are heading in the right direction, at the right speed.
We will become the first fully renewable Country to transition from fossil fuels IMO. Despite what the SMH says.
By the way, wipe your chin, that last post was dribble.

In relation to your last post, double glazing is only effective for convected heat, radiant heat goes straight through, so not much good in bright sunny areas.
We are subsidising coal because if we don't we will all be sitting in the dark, something has to produce electricity when the sun isn't shining and the wind isn't blowing.
If we weren't paying for what we are doing through our taxes, the cost of electricity would probably triple.

Obviously you worked in electrical wholesale, I would have said retail, but you knew about SF6.


----------



## Knobby22 (7 January 2020)

I was replying to frog.

Let's hope we get there in the end. 

The next climate meeting will be interesting. Now we have made world headlines through that fool of a backbencher.

Good night from me.


----------



## Knobby22 (7 January 2020)

BTW no not retail or wholesale.
I am a consulting design engineer. .
Don't charge as much as a lawyer.


----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> BTW no not retail or wholesale.
> I am a consulting design engineer. .
> Don't charge as much as a lawyer.



Really, an electrical engineer?

If you are an electrical engineer, you would have covered what we are discussing, and understand the VAR flow and reactive current flow problems in very long transmission systems.
Getting back to the UK story, I really don't see renewables making huge inroads in the near future, probably the 3 GW nuclear plant they are building might reduce the emissions more.
Actually just had a thought, we would be better off putting a trans Tasman link to NZ and building geothermal and hydro there.
Anyway good night, great discussion.


----------



## Knobby22 (7 January 2020)

The new hydro scheme will help a lot, one thing Turnbull managed to achieve.

It's just that we are paying for all the change through taxes rather than setting up a market to let the private sector sort it out that slows us down so much. 

Its like we have a socialist government.

Good night, always good to discuss stuff intelligently.


----------



## Humid (7 January 2020)

I see electrical penis size arguments here
Fellas it’s 3 wires 4 years =
Electricial tradesman


----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> The new hydro scheme will help a lot, one thing Turnbull managed to achieve.
> 
> It's just that we are paying for all the change through taxes rather than setting up a market to let the private sector sort it out that slows us down so much.
> 
> ...




Now I do agree with that statement, private generators only want to build plant that pays money, so that is the major problem IMO.

For us to become completely run on renewables we need a massive amount of storage, I mean mind boggling the more is better storage, because when we have extended periods of no renewable or low renewable generation we will rely on storage. In reality the shortfall in renewable generation could last weeks, so storage has to make the shortfall up, every day.
Just like if the sun doesn't shine on the solar HWS, you either turn on the electric or have cold water.

The problem with storage it isn't worth as much as generation, because it costs money to fill it and you only get money for what you sell of it.
If the renewable generators are going well, the storage will be used less, but it costs probably more to install, than wind and solar generation. So the return on equity will be $hit in comparison, with installing generation.
With generation, if you wait untill it is really required, you can sell everything you produce.
That is where your socialist system works, the Government has to put in the storage, because private will put in enough generation to feed the load and fill the storage because they will be paid for it.


----------



## Knobby22 (7 January 2020)

Humid

What's the difference between God and an electrician?

God doesn't think he is an electrician.;-)


----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2020)

Humid said:


> I see electrical penis size arguments here
> Fellas it’s 3 wires 4 years =
> Electricial tradesman



As opposed to a 4lb hammer and a frontal labotomy fitter.
Or the mechanical theme song " hit me with your shovel mick, hit me ,hit me".
120Kg of meat with a spanner. 
If a mechanical fitter can't fix it, he has run out of duct tape.
You can hear the fitter arriving, by the sounds of his knuckles dragging.lol
Jeez this takes me back to my apprenticeship, what a great forum.


----------



## Humid (7 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> As opposed to a 4lb hammer and a frontal labotomy fitter.
> Or the mechanical theme song " hit me with your shovel mick, hit me ,hit me".
> 120Kg of meat with a spanner.
> If a mechanical fitter can't fix it, he has run out of duct tape.




Pointy heads vs Propeller Heads


----------



## basilio (7 January 2020)

The Balance of the Liberal party in dealing with climate change


----------



## qldfrog (7 January 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> We are not comparing with the Chinese or Indians as they are still developing but we certainly cannot lecture them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No answer.by green energy and let the market decides
Sleep well tonight
I know that in 2000, i was offsetting my car emissions, walking the talk until i found out how this co2 story makes no sense
I can not ask anyone to have the knowledge to know they are being scammed, need at lest 3y uni physics background but if you parrot a cause, be honest to apply your outrage to yourself


----------



## qldfrog (7 January 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> BTW no not retail or wholesale.
> I am a consulting design engineer. .
> Don't charge as much as a lawyer.



Design engineer can decide GUI or shape of iPod.
Does not need science background.you are excused, and have enough cash to buy green energy only, anyway, we are told it is cheaper than coal ...one daily
So fully zero emission no doubt....


----------



## Knobby22 (7 January 2020)

qldfrog said:


> Design engineer can decide GUI or shape of iPod.
> Does not need science background.you are excused, and have enough cash to buy green energy only, anyway, we are told it is cheaper than coal ...one daily
> So fully zero emission no doubt....



I think you are getting me mixed up with an industrial designer.


----------



## Humid (7 January 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> I think you are getting me mixed up with an industrial designer.




Lost in Translation


----------



## Humid (7 January 2020)

Engineer round Here =year 10 cert


----------



## sptrawler (7 January 2020)

Humid said:


> Engineer round Here =year 10 cert



I have to agree with that, no matter how hard you try to break it down to basic principles, they still come back the next day with the same $hit.
I can't believe it, it is cult like, watch the screen repeat what is on the screen, rinse and repeat.
There is no way, until the baby boomers die that it will turn to $hit, then the rinse and repeat brigade come through and watch out.
Thank god I will be gone by then.


----------



## IFocus (8 January 2020)

This gives a time line to Morrisons response to the fires, pretty damming

Like I said before endless material.


The bushfires started in September, and by early November some 300 homes had been damaged or destroyed, the area burnt in New South Wales alone reaching 1 million hectares. Shane Fitzsimmons, the commissioner of the NSW Rural Fire Service, was warning it could be months before eastern Australia had the bushfires under control. Firefighters were already under stress. “There is no doubt they have flogged themselves silly,” Fitzsimmons said. “They are extremely drained but they are passionate and steadfast in their resolve to do the very best they can for their community.”

NSW was in a state of emergency and the fires in Queensland were also unprecedented. Australian Defence Force liaison officers were working with Emergency Management Australia, as Australia’s largest-ever peacetime deployment of the military was expected. A group of 22 former emergency services leaders led by former commissioner of NSW Fire and Rescue Greg Mullins, the Emergency Leaders for Climate Change, tried to meet with the prime minister (for the second time) to express their alarm at the scale of the threat, but were rebuffed. There was no movement at all from the Morrison government.

By early December, 2.7 million hectares had been burnt out; it was already one of the worst natural disasters in Australia’s history.

On December 10, amid growing panic at the complete lack of federal government response, Morrison, against the backdrop of the worst smoke in Sydney’s history, gave a press conference about… his government’s proposed religious discrimination bill. Responding to journalists’ questions about the fires, he rejected calls for more help for volunteer firefighters, who had been working for many weeks without pay, saying they “want to be there” helping their communities. As Morrison went to leave the building afterwards, the smoke set off a fire alarm, trapping him inside. The symbolism was ripe, but still Morrison refused to heed the signs. No federal government support was forthcoming. Natural disasters were, in his view, a matter for the states to handle.

On December 12, Morrison finally described the situation as a national disaster. Responding to growing criticism, he again sought to deflect blame and responsibility, assuring Australians that “the federal government is responding to all of the needs that have been presented to us by our state and territory authorities”, and again rejecting the calls to lend more support. A report by international think tanks had the day before named Australia as having the very worst climate policies among 57 surveyed, provoking the usual pat responses from the government. But criticism of the government’s negligence in both the fight against bushfires and climate change was becoming intense. Reporting on Morrison’s December 12 press conference, Peter Hartcher wrote in Nine Media that “the country is crying out for leadership. Instead it got excuses.”

“Having lost control of the discussion about bushfires and what to do about them,” wrote Laura Tingle on December 14, “there is little sign that Scott Morrison knows how to correct his language, or his apparent grasp of a response.”

On December 15, extreme temperatures were forecast, and over 100 fires burning across NSW were expected to worsen. And the prime minister went on holiday in Hawaii.

https://www.themonthly.com.au/blog/nick-feik/2020/07/2020/1578372000/national-disaster


----------



## chiff (8 January 2020)

IFocus said:


> This gives a time line to Morrisons response to the fires, pretty damming
> 
> Like I said before endless material.
> 
> ...



Thoughts and prayers!


----------



## chiff (8 January 2020)

When Morrison invited the media to film him praying-that was always a worry.Abbott and Morrison are on the same page with this CC denial.Both believe in God-for which there is no evidence,but do not believe in  human induced CC for which there is evidence.


----------



## cynic (8 January 2020)

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/the-feed/this-betting-agency-blew-1-3m-on-labor-win-early-payouts



No evidence?!!!


----------



## IFocus (8 January 2020)

*Captured – The Sequel: climate deniers a re-run of Big Tobacco*


As the Prime Minister continues to deny the factual links between the climate, bushfire, and drought emergencies devastating the nation, there can be no doubt that the Australian state has been completely captured by fossil fuel and media billionaires.



https://www.michaelwest.com.au/clim...ionaires/?mc_cid=ae6bf89e83&mc_eid=7935c92ad0


----------



## sptrawler (8 January 2020)

And the Queensland Labour leader, was where? When in reality the bushfire control is a State function.

Like I said earlier, it will be more of an issue if he doesn't handle the post bushfire rebuild, than the fact he was on holidays prior.

Time will tell, but if the Labour Party is going to hang its next election campaign on that hook, best of luck.
Fortunately Albo isn't following suit and has actually said he understands the difficulty Morrison faced with regard the holiday.
All that is going to happen with all this thrashing around by the media is, it will make the public more tone deaf to their bleatings than they already are and the last election showed how fed up they are.
I certainly hope they actually come up with a stand on something, as currently they seem to be missing in action, while they re group.
Just my opinion.


----------



## Humid (8 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> And the Queensland Labour leader, was where? When in reality the bushfire control is a State function.
> 
> Like I said earlier, it will be more of an issue if he doesn't handle the post bushfire rebuild, than the fact he was on holidays prior.
> 
> ...




You’ll vote Libs regardless


----------



## sptrawler (8 January 2020)

Humid said:


> You’ll vote Libs regardless



Actually I wont, if Labour comes up with a sensible plan, I would definitely vote for them.
The problem was, the last plan was worse than leaving everything as it is, which isn't good.
You really shouldn't steriotype people, I will vote for who I think will maintain the working class living standard, because at the end of the day the working class fund the majority of Government spending.
What I wont do is vote for something, that I can see will actually erode the working class living standards, that I as a union member fought most of my working career for.
You can and will believe what you like, but I have middle aged working class kids and coming on 8 grandkids, so i actually do care.
What I don't care about, is what someone in Sydney and Melbourne wants to pay for a house, if they keep paying stupid prices so be it. 
Don't screw over me, my kids and grandkids to sort it.


----------



## Humid (8 January 2020)

Well I hope your grandkids turn out real smart or otherwise you’ll be explaining why you continued to vote for a party that erodes work place conditions and promotes zero wage growth.
“Grandad what are penalty rates”
GO TO YOUR ROOM


----------



## sptrawler (8 January 2020)

Humid said:


> Well I hope your grandkids turn out real smart or otherwise you’ll be explaining why you continued to vote for a party that erodes work place conditions and promotes zero wage growth.
> “Grandad what are penalty rates”
> GO TO YOUR ROOM



That's a lot better, than at 40 years old having the value of your house in Perth, drop another 35%.
But hey everyone lives their own belief's, I'm not criticising your choices, humour me with mine.
I've lived my life and am making decisions on my experiences, you will do the same.
By the way, I and many my age lived through negative wage growth, but you wouldn't be interested in that. 
What are penalty rates, well they are what I went on strike for, same as living away from home allowance, leave loading, site allowances.
You know the things you get, to achieve your $250k a year and allow you to vote Labour, so they could take $6k off me.
Yep good old look after those, who looked after you. Magic 

Hopefully Albo can turn it around, because rusted on $250k workers are dying out.


----------



## IFocus (9 January 2020)

Talking of conspiracies


*Who Pays: should ordinary taxpayers foot the bill for bushfires or the fossil fuel giants who pay no tax?*
by Michael West -- 7 January 2020 -- Energy, Featured


Five of Australia’s top coal companies – Peabody, Yancoal Sumitomo, Citic and Whitehaven – racked up $54 billion in total income over the past five years and paid zero income tax in Australia, according to Tax Office corporate tax data. Fossil fuel companies should foot the bill for the fires, not ordinary taxpayers. Michael West reports.

As bushfires rage across the country, further igniting the acrimonious debate over climate change,* the Insurance Council of Australia says the NSW Emergency Services Levy may raise premiums on households by 25% and businesses by up to 50%.
*
Like ordinary taxpayers, giant fossil fuel companies are protected by firefighters. They too enjoy access to and the protection of the law. They are big users of this country’s legal system. Their executives too drive on Australia’s roads.

Their children go to school here, their plants consume huge amounts of water, they enjoy the diesel fuel subsidy, they like ordinary taxpayers are protected by Australia’s armed forces and police.

*They are effectively subsidised, heavily subsidised by ordinary taxpayers although they return little or nothing by way of income tax.*


https://www.michaelwest.com.au/who-...y-no-tax/?mc_cid=ae6bf89e83&mc_eid=7935c92ad0


----------



## Smurf1976 (9 January 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> It's just that we are paying for all the change through taxes rather than setting up a market to let the private sector sort it out that slows us down so much.



The problem with the market we’ve got is that it’s based heavily on ideology and ignores who the real competitors are.

In the real world it’s not AGL versus Origin, it’s Australia versus others especially USA, Canada, Russia, South Africa and on a smaller scale a few others like Iceland.

There are exceptions but broadly speaking the Australian industry is lacking that international focus and doesn’t co-operate well with “rival” companies to drive costs down and remain competitive. The ACCC and the ideologically driven laws it enforces are a major hurdle there - we’re simply too small to achieve economies of scale without “rival” companies co-operating.

The focus needs to be Australia and its position relative to others not this silly internal stuff.


----------



## Smurf1976 (9 January 2020)

Humid said:


> Well I hope your grandkids turn out real smart or otherwise you’ll be explaining why you continued to vote for a party that erodes work place conditions and promotes zero wage growth




Trouble is, in different ways both major parties are eroding the conditions of the working class. To the extent there’s a difference it comes down to the detail, what jobs or what age and so on, but both are going in the same overall direction of creating a two class society - a handful of rich and everyone else.


----------



## Humid (9 January 2020)

Tony Rabbit gets in bingo RC into unions.....cmon
Cut penalty rates forpeeps who probably need it the most
Integrity Bill the press rolling up before the cops....it keeps going mate
You would remember the days when projects over ran budget and time were blamed on industrial actions?
You don’t hear that anymore but every job still runs over
You want a real 2tier society get rid of unions and there’s only one party doing that and it’s the one that’s been in power for the last 6 years


----------



## IFocus (9 January 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Trouble is, in different ways both major parties are eroding the conditions of the working class. To the extent there’s a difference it comes down to the detail, what jobs or what age and so on, but both are going in the same overall direction of creating a two class society - a handful of rich and everyone else.




Disagree Smurf Labors policys going into the last election advantaged the lower and middle income earners over all, funding changes that would also flow back into health and education for the same groups.

As Humid points out the Coalition have gone after unions, anyone protesting, resisted changes to banking and financial institutions that all have against the ordinary man on the street. 

We now have a do nothing government that concentrates on religious freedom  rather than an national emergency......then taking holidays. 

Now we all know that electorally it was a massive fail so maybe for the next election you could well be right


----------



## Humid (9 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> That's a lot better, than at 40 years old having the value of your house in Perth, drop another 35%.
> But hey everyone lives their own belief's, I'm not criticising your choices, humour me with mine.
> I've lived my life and am making decisions on my experiences, you will do the same.
> By the way, I and many my age lived through negative wage growth, but you wouldn't be interested in that.
> ...



Ok Boomer
Mate the $250k left the building when your lot got in now it’s all flat rate no sickies,holidays nuttin!
Just the way their buddies in big business wanted it.
Did you read that Michael West article of who these clowns have running their offices?.
You always bring up going on strike for better conditions but guess what you old silver fox your lot made that illegal with massive draconian penalties including goal


----------



## sptrawler (9 January 2020)

Humid said:


> Ok Boomer
> Mate the $250k left the building when your lot got in now it’s all flat rate no sickies,holidays nuttin!
> Just the way their buddies in big business wanted it.
> Did you read that Michael West article of who these clowns have running their offices?.
> You always bring up going on strike for better conditions but guess what you old silver fox your lot made that illegal with *massive draconian penalties including goal*



I was threatened with that and civil action on more than one occassion and we had the union organiser tell us that they wouldn't give us legal representation. That was when your mate Brian Burke was in office.


----------



## Humid (9 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I was threatened with that and civil action on more than one occassion and we had the union organiser tell us that they wouldn't give us legal representation. That was when your mate Brian Burke was in office.




Where were you working when threatened with that?


----------



## sptrawler (9 January 2020)

Humid said:


> Where were you working when threatened with that?



In a major Power Station, just checked up on my dates and Brian was another incident, the one I was refering to was when the wonderful Ms Lawrence was in.


----------



## Humid (9 January 2020)

Major or Muja


----------



## orr (10 January 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> The problem with the market we’ve got is that it’s based heavily on ideology and ignores who the real competitors are.
> 
> 
> The focus needs to be Australia and its position relative to others not this silly internal stuff.




Adding to the points raised by 'Focus'  There's nothing resembling a forward acting Industrial Policy on the Right side of Politics.
No Policy just the still stuck in the Backwoods Of the Ozarks Neo-Liberal Business knows Best.
No Idea other than Pay McKinsey Squillions so then when it goes t1ts up there's someone else to blame.
There's a huge shift in the worlds industrial structure happening now. And Morriscum and his pack of plonkers are doing everything they can to make sure Australia is on the wrong side of it. The stench of the consequences of fossil fuel interests fills the air And denudes our future.


----------



## Smurf1976 (10 January 2020)

Humid said:


> You would remember the days when projects over ran budget and time were blamed on industrial actions?
> You don’t hear that anymore but every job still runs over
> You want a real 2tier society get rid of unions and there’s only one party doing that and it’s the one that’s been in power for the last 6 years




I wouldn’t for a moment say that the Liberals have done the ordinary workers any good but to be fair, what has Labor really done or proposed to do in modern times?

Look how much manufacturing we’ve lost - that’s high wage jobs gone and replaced by things like tourism. Labor was no more effective at stopping that than Liberal, indeed Labor presided over much of the destruction many years ago.

Same could be said for the population growth obsession. Compare Sydney in 2020 with Sydney in 2000 - it’s hard to see how it’s benefiting the average person and both parties are pushing it.

In more recent times we’ve seen Liberals hit the mostly younger half with penalty rates and we’ve seen Labor propose hitting retirees via taxation. All aimed right at the middle class, those who work or worked and who aren’t rich, and of little or no concern to the rest.

And so on. Neither party is doing much to put the average person somewhere in the middle. Both will happily have you competing against cheap foreign competitors, priced out of housing and stuck in a low wage occupation.


----------



## Smurf1976 (10 January 2020)

IFocus said:


> Disagree Smurf Labors policys going into the last election advantaged the lower and middle income earners over all, funding changes that would also flow back into health and education for the same groups.




They may have helped some in that group that’s true but that they went after middle class retirees, those who aren’t worth a fortune and aren’t reliant on welfare, was a definite factor in them losing the election.

They attacked the very group that most have an underlying aim to end up part of.

Meanwhile neither are paying more than lip service to the dumping of cheap goods from overseas and so on. Go to any supermarket and you can buy frozen vegetables grown in low wage countries if you so wish. Both parties waffle on about helping farmers but suggest we put a tax on such goods to even things up and watch them back away real quick lest it upsets their masters.

Liberal’s beholden to big business and Labor’s beholden to the globalists. Neither are doing much to ensure the employment of Aussies on $80K rather than sending the work to someone overseas on $20K hence the slow but relentless slide backwards for the middle class.


----------



## SirRumpole (10 January 2020)

If it wasn't for the unions Labor would not exist, and some of the unions have been downright criminal through the years eg Painters and Dockers.

However , well run unions are supposed to represent their members, usually low paid workers, so I'd prefer they have more say than those who represent a few company owners, most likely majority foreign owned who run a "rape and run" operation.

But those I just mentioned are the extremes, and very view politicians are around to represent the middle, ie those who just want to get along, get a good education and a good job and don't want to rabble rouse in a union or rip anyone off in a business.

Can anyone remember a government that represented those people ? Menzies perhaps or maybe Hawke/Keating who weren't all that keen on disruptive unions.


----------



## Smurf1976 (10 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> But those I just mentioned are the extremes, and very view politicians are around to represent the middle, ie those who just want to get along, get a good education and a good job and don't want to rabble rouse in a union or rip anyone off in a business.



This.

If I’m rich or ripping someone off in order to become rich then the Liberals will be my friends.

If I’m on welfare or want to stir up trouble via certain unions then Labor likes me yes.

If I just want to get an education, work hard either as an employee or small business owner, buy a house, raise a family and in due course retire well then neither are overly interested.

They’ll either stand in the way of me being educated, allow cheap labour to compete against my employer or business, push housing out of reach and/or keep me working until literally the day I’m dead. Neither are my friend if I’m just an ordinary person living a normal life - otherwise known as the middle class. Both will be more than happy to tax me and ask for my vote however.

As an individual I basically despise Donald Trump but it’s not hard to see someone like that emerging in Australia. Someone promising a better deal for the mainstream and not seen as pandering to either extreme.

My concern, and I’ll admit that I’ve really only considered it seriously in fairly recent times, is that we’ll end up like France. An otherwise pleasant society in a wealthy and safe country where those in the middle feel they’ve been done over to the point of literally ending up with riots in the street.

Overall I’d still prefer Labor over Liberal at a broad level but some of the detail’s a very definite problem.

Neither got my first vote last election by the way.


----------



## SirRumpole (10 January 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Overall I’d still prefer Labor over Liberal at a broad level but some of the detail’s a very definite problem.




I think it's pretty inevitable that Labor will move to the Right after the last election result. The results in Australia and Britain, albeit a very different set of circumstances indicates that people don't want a nanny State *at the moment *, however that could change if there is a serious recession with mass  unemployment.

The bit where Labor have really failed imv was throwing a mining tax (recommended by Ken Henry) out the window. A great way to get revenue to start up modern industries without taxing the voters. Instead they decided to redistribute from one taxpaying class to another, so someone was going to be offended and it cost them.

I think Labor will be seriously considering a return of an RRT, but I don't think they will be making a big noise about it this time until after they win.


----------



## Smurf1976 (10 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> I think Labor will be seriously considering a return of an RRT, but I don't think they will be making a big noise about it this time until after they win.



If people can see that a tax is part of some overall strategy and is being fairly collected then it’s more likely to be accepted by most.

For example everyone knows that smoking in bad for health and it is clearly also not essential. Nobody’s changing the government over it despite tobacco being the most highly taxed legal product.

In contrast it would be far more difficult to convince people that we’re going to put a tax on certain cars because we need the money. Then upon seeing the detail it’s a tax that applies to a Camry but which doesn’t apply to a Rolls Royce due to the detail of how it’s applied which is based on the dimensions of the headlights.

That won’t win much support, especially not if whoever’s proposing it defends it by saying that RR’s are typically bought by people who’ve already paid a lot of tax.

Etc. If there’s some explainable logic to it which seems reasonable and it’s done in a consistent manner, eg a tax on all cars or at least limited to those with some sensible defining characteristic eg price or size, then there’s far less likely to be any major opposition to it versus anything which targets something for no reason other than “just because”.


----------



## orr (10 January 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> I wouldn’t for a moment say that the Liberals have done the ordinary workers any good but to be fair, what has Labor really done or proposed to do in modern times?



I'd go a bit futher than 'no good' . 

It wasn't Labour that squandered The Resources Boom.
There's modeling that puts the losses of the Carbon Price instituted and then poisoned by the LNP at $11 Billion to date. few jobs in that I'd suggest..
The LNP cannot get there own NEG through there Party Room.
The Economic Moron Morriscum maligns as a 'big Pineapple' the battery investment that now returns north of 30% ROI. 
Refuses to take the advice of the Reserve Bank on the need to accelerate infrastuture spending.
The ICE engine is going the way of the Dinosaur And the Blathering Holidaying Disaster blind incompetent sees electric vehicles as Satans work.
Canavan wants your and my money spent on coal fired power plant. 
The IPA, play thing of Gina Rinehart, and gold standard of LNP policy ideals would want what for the Australian worker??? here's one aspect 'A very short toothless retirement'

As we live and breath Gillard is saving  countless million$$ and the lives and the standard thereof of thousands of workers through the implementation of Plain Packaging.

How many years in the last 25 have Labour been at the controls?

Ross Garnauts 'Super Power' for those that need a few hints.
Guaranteed to go unread by the clueless, two have adjoining seats in southern Sydney...Cook&Hughes what a tragic duo... 
Mind you there's a bit of work to done now rebuilding  a 'few' raised area's.
All aboard the The Morriscum Bus to the Venezuelian Colder-sac.
I'm off to bathe' in my Franking credits....


----------



## Smurf1976 (10 January 2020)

orr said:


> How many years in the last 25 have Labour been at the controls?



Federally - mostly but not all Coalition governments during that time.

States - it varies. Some have been mostly Labor, some Liberal.

Reality though is that the decline set in well before 25 years ago. If you look at Australia versus the rest of the world then depending on what measure you consider, we peaked sometime during the period mid-1960's to late 1970's. Since that time we've quite literally dug ourselves a huge hole and given up on most other things.

A mining tax done sensibly would work wonders. The key is using it as a tool beyond simply a revenue measure.

Eg take the mine at Nhulunbuy as a classic example. Historically they mined the ore and processed the bauxite to alumina to be exported. Then, partly due to Australia's energy debacle but not entirely for that reason, the alumina plant was shut and now they just load the ore onto ships and that's it. If it were up to me then I'd give them a choice - no tax if you process it here (anywhere in any Australian state, no problem if they want to ship it somewhere to process as long as it's in Australia), big tax if you don't. Simple.

Do the same with the rest. No tax on iron ore and coal going into an Australian steel works. Big tax if they just export the coal and ore. Etc. Encourage things like the major expansion proposed for the works at Whyalla, increasing capacity to over 7 times the present production. That sure beats just loading ore onto boats. 

The aim isn't to raise revenue but to wield the tax stick to bring about a far greater return on the mineral wealth of the nation. Ideally it won't collect a cent directly - if they process here and avoid it then that's precisely the desired outcome. Tax revenue then comes in indirectly via the broader economic benefits of that value adding.

Same with a lot of things. Use the tax stick to bring about broader development and encourage business to do things here not somewhere else.


----------



## SirRumpole (10 January 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Do the same with the rest. No tax on iron ore and coal going into an Australian steel works. Big tax if they just export the coal and ore. Etc.




Yes, it's called an export tax. Should be on gas too.


----------



## sptrawler (13 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Yes, it's called an export tax. Should be on gas too.



Not having a tax on the exports, is the biggest can kicking excercise in Australian history and will ultimately cause our decline. IMO
The Royalties scheme, is probably the closest thing we have to a sensible tax on materials, but it isn't much good, if you don't change the price charged from the 1960's.
Brendan Grylls in W.A wanted to raise the Royalies on iron ore to $5 per ton, currently it is hardly anything, well he was quickly ejected from his seat by the miners at the next election.
In reality the only way you will get it in, is if there is a bipartison approach by both political parties, then it has to be addressed.
Currently both sides don't want to address it, because the one that suggests it, cops the wrath of the mining industry about job loses, well that will become less of a stick as the jobs are being automated anyway.


----------



## basilio (13 January 2020)

ScoMo tries to tap on the door to "retweak" his governments CC policy - 
and the obvious happens.

* Coalition MPs split over Scott Morrison's apparent shift on climate policy *
Moderate Liberals seize on PM’s comments to argue the government will do more to cut emissions but conservatives push back
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...tt-morrisons-apparent-shift-on-climate-policy


----------



## SirRumpole (13 January 2020)

basilio said:


> ScoMo tries to tap on the door to "retweak" his governments CC policy -
> and the obvious happens.
> 
> * Coalition MPs split over Scott Morrison's apparent shift on climate policy *
> ...




Dutton is probably licking his lips again.


----------



## wayneL (13 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Dutton is probably licking his lips again.



As  he should.

Scomo, yet another sellout under pressure from the irrelevant Twitterati.


----------



## PZ99 (13 January 2020)

The likelihood of another change of PM mid term is zero...

Dutton will have to wait. Not jump the queue. It's his job to stop queue jumping


----------



## sptrawler (14 January 2020)

Dutton has no chance of leading the LNP in my opinion, he has worse public appeal than Shorten and that is saying something.
The SMH and ABC are thrashing themselves into a frenzy, but I can't see them being able to keep this on the front page, once winter starts.


----------



## Smurf1976 (14 January 2020)

PZ99 said:


> The likelihood of another change of PM mid term is zero...




Regardless of whether anyone likes ScoMo or not, we need political stability.

He's the leader of the government but he's not the government as such, we don't have a single person running the show, so changing leader once again would bring more negatives than positives no matter who the replacement is.

He's stuffed up yes. OK, let's get the show back on the road and get on with it.

For the record I'd hold the same view if Labor had won the election and it was Shorten under pressure right now. We need stability not a revolving door of PM's.


----------



## PZ99 (14 January 2020)

I agree fellas but the main reason is because to remove the PM the party now needs a two thirds majority vote and there's no way they'll achieve that against a leader who won the unwinnable election.


----------



## qldfrog (14 January 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Federally - mostly but not all Coalition governments during that time.
> 
> States - it varies. Some have been mostly Labor, some Liberal.
> 
> ...



We all agree but you realise as well 50pc of the  population will protest , people glued in streets, etc if you
open a furnace here: co2 emissions, pollution,road traffic you name it


----------



## moXJO (14 January 2020)

They only worry closer to an election. No way they will oust him


----------



## basilio (14 January 2020)

ScoMo is not looking good with the public with his handling of the bushfires.
*Essential poll: more voters disapprove of Scott Morrison and see him as arrogant*
The prime minister’s handling of the bushfire crisis has seen his disapproval rating rise 9 points from 43% in December to 52%
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...ove-of-scott-morrison-and-see-him-as-arrogant


----------



## SirRumpole (14 January 2020)

basilio said:


> ScoMo is not looking good with the public with his handling of the bushfires.
> *Essential poll: more voters disapprove of Scott Morrison and see him as arrogant*
> The prime minister’s handling of the bushfire crisis has seen his disapproval rating rise 9 points from 43% in December to 52%
> https://www.theguardian.com/austral...ove-of-scott-morrison-and-see-him-as-arrogant




No polls until the next election please bas, they are annoying and irrelevant and probably wrong anyway.


----------



## orr (14 January 2020)

Oh for a Bi-election. A brain death on the Co-alition benches would anyone notice.
The walking political corpse of Gussy Taylor.
Wondering why there's an intensive care ambulance parked at the end of that street? There's a sitting government member a few doors down...
There's a feverish intensity to those prayer breakfasts the jabbering in tongues is shake'n the windows...
And doing nothing for a nations confidence.

I think his name was David Elliott(Baulkum hills) ...a man seemingly written out of history. But into Lore: A deraliction A cure A Disgrace. The epitome of the LNP.


----------



## SirRumpole (14 January 2020)

orr said:


> Oh for a Bi-election. A brain death on the Co-alition benches would anyone notice.
> The walking political corpse of Gussy Taylor.
> Wondering why there's an intensive care ambulance parked at the end of that street? There's a sitting government member a few doors down...
> There's a feverish intensity to those prayer breakfasts the jabbering in tongues is shake'n the windows...
> ...




David Elliot is the current NSW Police Minister.

Any significance in that ?


----------



## moXJO (14 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> No polls until the next election please bas, they are annoying and irrelevant and probably wrong anyway.



Are polls even valid anymore?
I thought shorten had it last election.
They made brexit election look like it was going to lose.


----------



## qldfrog (14 January 2020)

orr said:


> Oh for a Bi-election. A brain death on the Co-alition benches would anyone notice.
> The walking political corpse of Gussy Taylor.
> Wondering why there's an intensive care ambulance parked at the end of that street? There's a sitting government member a few doors down...
> There's a feverish intensity to those prayer breakfasts the jabbering in tongues is shake'n the windows...
> ...



Feeling better? It seems this thread is used for therapeutic purposes


----------



## orr (15 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> David Elliot is the current NSW Police Minister.
> 
> Any significance in that ?



Rumpole That's bordering on 'anal'...
It was the NSW police that utilised the term 'Garrad' for their investigation into one of Gussy Taylors detours to  fantasy land, it seems his preferred address.
Mind you there's a couple from the Pineapple State in here that wish to usurp Taylor from that Urban dictionary discriptor.


----------



## Tink (17 January 2020)




----------



## PZ99 (17 January 2020)

qldfrog said:


> Feeling better? It seems this thread is used for therapeutic purposes



Not just this thread - more like the whole of general chat


----------



## wayneL (17 January 2020)

PZ99 said:


> Not just this thread - more like the whole of general chat



Dunno, I'm more likely to despair, TBH.


----------



## SirRumpole (17 January 2020)

Never mind wayne. It won't be long before Andrew Bolt, Alan Jones and Ray Hadley are back on air. 

In the meantime, here is some soothing music for you.



(I didn't listen to it either).


----------



## Humid (17 January 2020)

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...BxAC&usg=AOvVaw0MWxdMGEGCIfxhvQdO2szP&ampcf=1
The silence is deafening


----------



## IFocus (18 January 2020)

Laura brings it altogether as she does so well.

*Scott Morrison is facing bushfires, a grants saga and a perfect storm of political hopelessness*


*https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-18/scott-morrison-perfect-storm-political-hopelessness/11878158*


----------



## moXJO (18 January 2020)

Scomo has focused too much attention on the fires and has been to slow to act on the floods. How dare he..... 
He should be thrown out #cancelculture


----------



## IFocus (18 January 2020)

moXJO said:


> Scomo has focused too much attention on the fires and has been to slow to act on the floods. How dare he.....
> He should be thrown out #cancelculture




He has lacked leadership and played politics with all the issues, consequently he has  been caught out.

His supporters keep saying how everyone is blaming him............people / media aren't they think he is insincere and playing politics!


Compare that against the state leaders........haven't heard one complaint regardless of the party.


----------



## sptrawler (18 January 2020)

IFocus said:


> He has lacked leadership and played politics with all the issues, consequently he has  been caught out.
> 
> His supporters keep saying how everyone is blaming him............people / media aren't they think he is insincere and playing politics!
> 
> ...



Actually you could add to that, regardless of the Party, or the responsibility.


----------



## IFocus (18 January 2020)

When you in the middle of a national emergency and your staff instead of planning a response or action are frantically backgrounding media how the lack of federal response is the NSW state governments fault is damming for Smoko's sincerity.....= 0


----------



## sptrawler (18 January 2020)

IFocus said:


> When you in the middle of a national emergency and your staff instead of planning a response or action are frantically backgrounding media how the lack of federal response is the NSW state governments fault is damming for Smoko's sincerity.....= 0



Well it is a State responsibility, and apparently a Premier from an affected State was away on holidays, a shame the the press didn't give that the same airplay. I guess it depends who you are head hunting, as usual.
Actually it is interesting the fire brigades heads are asking not to conduct a royal Commission, so the outcome may be not what everyone expects, who knows? It may well be another shot in the foot, or foot in mouth situation, fortunately Albo showed sense and said very little most unusual for labour, but a breath of fresh air IMO.
But in the long term when the dust settles, I think common sense will come to the fore and everything will return to normal 24/7b news dribble will see to that.
The article in the AFR gives food for thought, it will only cost $100,000/ dwelling to go zero carbon, maybe the press will run with that one, it will give people something to get their teeth into.


----------



## IFocus (18 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Well it is a State responsibility, and apparently a Premier from an affected State was away on holidays, a shame the the press didn't give that the same airplay. I guess it depends who you are head hunting, as usual.




The hols taken by the Queensland premier weren't hidden like Somoko there was no politics involved and if there was the Queensland opposition would be going nuts.

The rumor / conspiracy from the RW for Somko was that he actually went off to open a church somewhere.



sptrawler said:


> Actually it is interesting the fire brigades heads are asking not to conduct a royal Commission, so the outcome may be not what everyone expects, who knows? It may well be another shot in the foot, or foot in mouth situation, fortunately Albo showed sense and said very little most unusual for labour, but a breath of fresh air IMO.
> But in the long term when the dust settles, I think common sense will come to the fore and everything will return to normal 24/7b news dribble will see to that.
> The article in the AFR gives food for thought, it will only cost $100,000/ dwelling to go zero carbon, maybe the press will run with that one, it will give people something to get their teeth into.




I think the zero carbon thing would actually be much cheaper the technology is there but the real impedance is the amount of money tied up currently in fossil fuels and that influence (think tobacco) will prevent the rapid change required.


----------



## sptrawler (18 January 2020)

IFocus said:


> I think the zero carbon thing would actually be much cheaper the technology is there but the real impedance is the amount of money tied up currently in fossil fuels and that influence (think tobacco) will prevent the rapid change required.



I think it will happen a lot quicker than people think, the Power Companies are desperate to close down coal, it is a very labour/maintenance cost fuel ( coal handling plant, boiler tube/air heater erosion and ash handling is all a pain in the butt) .
They would love to have the general public pay them to replace it, which is the angle I would be running, if I owned a coal fired station.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-to-speed-up-coal-fired-power-plant-shutdowns

In W.A in the last 8 years 640 MW of coal capable generation at Kwinana has been shut down and de commissioned and another 640MW of coal will be de commissioned at Muja in the next couple of years, that is a lot of coal generation out of our system.
From what I have read, the big problem at the moment, is actually upgrading the distribution system, to be able to cope with the reverse flow of renewables.


----------



## Smurf1976 (18 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> In W.A in the last 8 years 640 MW of coal capable generation at Kwinana has been shut down and de commissioned and another 640MW of coal will be de commissioned at Muja in the next couple of years, that is a lot of coal generation out of our system.



Indeed.

Only leaves Muja stage D, Collie and Bluewaters 1 & 2 so far as actual power stations burning coal are concerned in WA then that's it for coal.

In the eastern states, realistically if we put the politics aside then there's no particular reason to hurry up with coal closures. Rather, the problem is getting replacements, using whatever technology, built before the closures inevitably happen.

Looking at NSW and Vic, there's 26 coal units currently in operation. Looking at the age profile:

Under 24 years = none
24 - 27 years = 4
32 - 36 years = 12
39 - 42 years = 4
47 - 49 years = 6

Given that such facilities rarely make it much beyond 50 years, and typically experience increasing problems and falling production, reliability and economics beyond ~40 years, well I wouldn't be too worried about them hanging around too long.

The big problem is building something to replace them with before anything falls in a heap and some of it's not far from that point. At most, there might end up being a case to close 4 out of 26 units early but we're nowhere near the point of sensibly committing to that yet and for the rest the risk is they fall in a heap too soon, indeed there's already some real issues with some of them.


----------



## moXJO (18 January 2020)

IFocus said:


> He has lacked leadership and played politics with all the issues, consequently he has  been caught out.
> 
> ...........people / media aren't they think he is insincere and playing politics!
> 
> ...




That's every politician ever......


----------



## SirRumpole (18 January 2020)

moXJO said:


> That's every politician ever......




That's true, but there comes a time when people get sick of nothing important getting done and pick the other side in the hope that things will change.


----------



## sptrawler (18 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> That's true, but there comes a time when people get sick of nothing important getting done and pick the other side in the hope that things will change.



Didnt happen last time.
So it shows people still think about the issues.


----------



## IFocus (19 January 2020)

moXJO said:


> That's every politician ever......




Yeah nah the states haven't played the political game at all just Morrison, watching the state leaders and public servants say through gritted teeth how wonderful the federal government has been must have been torture for them.

Classic was the announcement of the ADF reserve call out without talking to the NSW state and then blaming the state for the miscommunication all the time the embedded federal government public servants (in NSW) had no idea either.


----------



## SirRumpole (19 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Didnt happen last time.
> So it shows people still think about the issues.




No, they think about themselves and their privileges.


----------



## Logique (19 January 2020)

Can't imagine a Hawke or Howard getting themselves into such a muddle over a crisis. The party needs to examine the PM's office, and who is advising him.

The PM looked horribly back-footed and reactionary. Can you imagine Arthur Sinodinos allowing John Howard to be so badly ambushed!  It should have been managed from before the Morrisons even left the country


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## sptrawler (19 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> No, they think about themselves and their privileges.



In Australia everyone gets priviliges, one way or another.
Be it concessions, franking credit rebates to all levels, or straight hand outs.
Thats what makes it difficult, for amyone to take the moral high ground, or decide which sector is going to lose.
Just my opinion


----------



## Knobby22 (19 January 2020)

Logique said:


> Can't imagine a Hawke or Howard getting themselves into such a muddle over a crisis. The party needs to examine the PM's office, and who is advising him.
> 
> The PM looked horribly back-footed and reactionary. Can you imagine Arthur Sinodinos allowing John Howard to be so badly ambushed!  It should have been managed from before the Morrisons even left the country



But also I can't imagine Hawke or Howard needing their hand held to such an extent.


----------



## SirRumpole (19 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> In Australia everyone gets priviliges, one way or another.
> Be it concessions, franking credit rebates to all levels, or straight hand outs.
> Thats what makes it difficult, for amyone to take the moral high ground, or decide which sector is going to lose.
> Just my opinion




Very true. It's also very hard to take priviledges away, even from people who don't actually need them.


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## SirRumpole (19 January 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> But also I can't imagine Hawke or Howard needing their hand held to such an extent.




That's the whole problem, trying to manage the optics of a disaster after the event rather than contributing to its reduction beforehand.


----------



## Logique (19 January 2020)

True.

And for the record, spt and SirR, franking credits are _not_ a privilege, they are a reimbursement of tax already paid on your behalf by someone else (so you don't have to pay tax twice).

Credit to Albo, he eventually worked this out. 

Which is more than I can say for Bowen-omics. Since succeeded by his protege Dr Jim, who doubtless had a big hand in the erstwhile policy development


----------



## SirRumpole (19 January 2020)

Logique said:


> And for the record, spt and SirR, franking credits are _not_ a privilege, they are a reimbursement of tax already paid on your behalf by someone else (so you don't have to pay tax twice).




Paid on your behalf *by someone else *?

So why don't the refunds go to the people who actually paid the tax in the first place ?


----------



## sptrawler (19 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Very true. It's also very hard to take priviledges away, even from people who don't actually need them.



Absolutely try taking the franking credits off those on the top tax bracket, or taking the pension of those sitting on the balcony overlooking Sydney Harbour.


----------



## sptrawler (19 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Paid on your behalf *by someone else *?
> 
> So why don't the refunds go to the people who actually paid the tax in the first place ?



So why not extend that to the pension? Where do you draw the line? or do you just keep moving it until you pick of all the low hanging fruit? Only those who work and pay taxes can claim help, well that gets really open ended? but that doesn't seem to bother anyone, until it affects them.lol


----------



## sptrawler (19 January 2020)

Logique said:


> True.
> 
> And for the record, spt and SirR, franking credits are _not_ a privilege, they are a reimbursement of tax already paid on your behalf by someone else (so you don't have to pay tax twice).
> 
> ...



Like I said Logique, everyone received the franking credit, whether that be a smsf pensioner, a single mum with a few shares, or Twiggy Forrest.
The fact that those on a low income don't pay as much tax, doesn't come into it, those on $100m a year dividends would be getting $30m back by not paying that tax. The whole idea was wrong and incredibly stupid, what I can't understand is how some cheered it on.
Anyway history showed most weren't stupid, it was the thin edge of the wedge.


----------



## Humid (19 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Like I said Logique, everyone received the franking credit, whether that be a smsf pensioner, a single mum with a few shares, or Twiggy Forrest.
> The fact that those on a low income don't pay as much tax, doesn't come into it, those on $100m a year dividends would be getting $30m back by not paying that tax. The whole idea was wrong and incredibly stupid, what I can't understand is how some cheered it on.
> Anyway history showed most weren't stupid, it was the thin edge of the wedge.




How you can be taxed twice while paying no tax
At best you would be taxed once


----------



## Smurf1976 (19 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Paid on your behalf *by someone else *?
> 
> So why don't the refunds go to the people who actually paid the tax in the first place ?



Because ultimately those who made the payment are simply employees working on behalf of the owners of the company, it's not their money, so any refund belongs to the owners.


----------



## Smurf1976 (19 January 2020)

Humid said:


> How you can be taxed twice while paying no tax
> At best you would be taxed once



In simple terms the franking credits issue can be summed up as saying:

*Everyone at present gets a Tax Free Threshold on income up to $18,200 and pays a rate of 19% for income over $18,200 and less than $37,000.

*This arrangement applies to everyone. Someone could earn $100 million a year but they still get the first $18,200 tax free and they still get the 19% rate too.

*The practical implication of Labor's former proposal raised the minimum tax rate for someone who's only income is from franked dividends to 30%, thus removing the 0% and 19% rates for these people.

*As a practical example, someone could earn $100K a year from employment and earn $30K in franked dividends. They would have paid no extra tax under what was proposed.

*If the same person then became unemployed, that's when they'd have faced the increased tax.

It was a tax on being moderately wealthy but out of work basically. The sort of wealth that someone working in an ordinary job could accumulate over time and which avoids them ever claiming Newstart or the Age Pension.

Anyone with no assets had nothing to lose and anyone with a high income was also unaffected in practice. It's the retired truck drivers, plumbers and office assistants who nobody will employ because they're too old who needed to worry, not Gina Rinehart and not someone who's never had a job. Hence the election outcome which saw wealthy electorates swing to Labor whilst the working class went to the Coalition.

Thankfully they've dropped the policy now and my hope is that it signals the start of a much broader return to Labor's traditional base of representing the working class not the upper class.


----------



## sptrawler (19 January 2020)

Humid said:


> How you can be taxed twice while paying no tax
> At best you would be taxed once



You should maybe ask silly Billy, because he was only going to apply it to SMSF and not Industry Funds, that is the problem with policy driven by trying to make it fit the outcome.
The outcome becomes really F#$&d up, but as was proven in the election, only the rich and rusted on, lapped it up.
Why were they taking it off smsf, but you would get it back if you transfer to an Industry Fund or retail fund( in reality the later are on the nose), it isn't rocket science and everyone saw through it.
Maybe Chris isn't going around to Paul's place every week anymore, and now Albo is in the Chardonnay set might f$&ck off out of the Labour Party.
Also while we are asking questions, why did your lot vote for you to get a tax cut, when your on $250k a year?


----------



## SirRumpole (19 January 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Because ultimately those who made the payment are simply employees working on behalf of the owners of the company, it's not their money, so any refund belongs to the owners.




I have to disagree there.

The company made the payment and it's a legal entity in itself, that's why shareholders have limited liability.

So if the company wants to pay tax for a shareholder , then the company should get the credits, and it's then up to them to give the money to the shareholders if they so desire.


----------



## sptrawler (19 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> I have to disagree there.
> 
> The company made the payment and it's a legal entity in itself, that's why shareholders have limited liability.
> 
> So if the company wants to pay tax for a shareholder , then the company should get the credits, and it's then up to them to give the money to the shareholders if they so desire.



So why were Labour only going to take it off a select few?
Why not take it off all.
How can you espouse the virtue's of Labour for calling the Royal Commission on banks, due to them rotting peole, then in the next breath congratulate them for supporting industry super rorting franking credits?


----------



## SirRumpole (19 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> So why were Labour only going to take it off a select few?
> Why not take it off all.
> How can you espouse the virtue's of Labour for calling the Royal Commission on banks, due to them rotting peole, then in the next breath congratulate them for supporting industry super rorting franking credits?




Basically the point I objected to (and said so on this site) was that people getting $100k tax free super pension were able to get these rebates.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/t...eral-election-2019.34619/page-36#post-1027316

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/t...eral-election-2019.34619/page-46#post-1028115

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/t...-imputation-system.34281/page-12#post-1014295

You liked a couple of those so I think we are on the same wavelength.


----------



## sptrawler (19 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Basically the point I objected to (and said so on this site) was that people getting $100k tax free super pension were able to get these rebates.
> 
> https://www.aussiestockforums.com/t...eral-election-2019.34619/page-36#post-1027316
> 
> ...



Absolutely make super taxable and give everyone the pension, then it is a reward system, if you want a better retirement you save for it, at the moment they are saying if you want a better retirement we'll take it off you.
It's just BS.
It just makes me bloody angry.
What Labour were going to do was just disgraceful, take it of smsf and low income people, give it to billionaires and those in industry Funds, what a bloody disgrace thank God Albo is in and the idiots have been removed.


----------



## Humid (19 January 2020)

6years of liberal government
Still harping on about Labor lol

I imagine they voted for it because it's their bracket


----------



## sptrawler (19 January 2020)

Humid said:


> 6years of liberal government
> Still harping on about Labor lol
> 
> I imagine they voted for it because it's their bracket



Unfortunately there wasnt an alternative, hopefully in 2 years there is, I know that is hard for you to understand.
As you get older and less employable, less of pretty much everything, you will start and understand.lol


----------



## Smurf1976 (19 January 2020)

Humid said:


> I imagine they voted for it because it's their bracket



If there's one thing I'd really like to see change in Australian politics it's the notion that everyone ought to vote for self interest which the media constantly promotes. 

It wasn't like that always, there was a much greater focus on what was good for the country overall, and we'd all ultimately benefit from a return to that.


----------



## Humid (19 January 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> If there's one thing I'd really like to see change in Australian politics it's the notion that everyone ought to vote for self interest which the media constantly promotes.
> 
> 
> It wasn't like that always, there was a much greater focus on what was good for the country overall, and we'd all ultimately benefit from a return to that.



It starts with the politicians


----------



## Smurf1976 (20 January 2020)

Humid said:


> It starts with the politicians




Agreed to an extent but there's an awful lot of fuel thrown on the fire by the media too.


----------



## Logique (20 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Paid on your behalf *by someone else *?
> So why don't the refunds go to the people who actually paid the tax in the first place ?



As fleshed out by Smurf, if your marginal tax rate is less than the company tax rate, franking credits refund you the difference. 

Labor, 'friend of the worker', had no problem under Bowen-omics with the 'top end of town' claiming this back on their tax return. _Their _refund wasn't going to '_someone else_', and still isn't. 

It was an attempted retiree tax, preying upon the financially illiterate. But the punters weren't so gullible.


----------



## basilio (20 January 2020)

This  investigation is going to cause more grief for ScoMo and Angus Taylor.

*Government rejected several offers on water rights before reaching $80m deal*
Exclusive: New documents raise further questions about deal with company founded by energy minister Angus Taylor






Energy minister Angus Taylor says he was unaware of the $80m sale of water rights to the government before it was announced. Photograph: Mick Tsikas/AAP
The government rejected several offers from Eastern Australia Agriculture over the past decade to sell its overland-flow water rights because the deals were “not value for money”, before paying $80m for the same rights, new documents show.

The water purchase in the Condamine Balonne catchment has been controversial because it cost taxpayers $80m, was concluded without tender and the company was founded by the energy minister, Angus Taylor.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...fers-on-water-rights-before-reaching-80m-deal


----------



## Smurf1976 (20 January 2020)

Logique said:


> Labor, 'friend of the worker', had no problem under Bowen-omics with the 'top end of town' claiming this back on their tax return. _Their _refund wasn't going to '_someone else_', and still isn't.




I think all this raises a broader question really.

If I work for x and they pay me $y on which I pay full rates of Income Tax, then when I spend the money:

*On most purchases I'll pay 10% GST

*On some purchases I'll pay no further tax at all.

*On a small number of items, all of which are non-essential, there's an additional tax a higher rate. Such items include alcohol, tobacco and luxury cars. The first two are explainable as a tax on unhealthy products etc whilst the latter basically does amount to a wealth tax albeit only on a non-essential purchase.

That being so, if I choose to instead invest that money then even paying normal rates of Income Tax is a rather steep rate of taxation compared to anything else I could do with it. Especially so when it's considered that if I bought lottery tickets and won then the winnings are untaxed even if it's a fortune and that by virtue of investing in a more cautious manner I've likely done myself out of at least some form of welfare at some stage too.

Now to be clear I'm not arguing that we give huge tax breaks to the rich or that we scrap welfare or anything like that but there needs to be a balance, there needs to be a reasonable reward to be had by those who do invest and avoid reliance on taxpayer funded welfare when unemployed or retired (noting that most will be in one or both of those situations at some point in their life).

I don't have any firm thoughts on how it ought to be but I do think there's a need for broader reform in all of this. Basic concept being that someone paying a moderate rate of tax and never claiming welfare is a much better outcome for government finances and thus taxpayers than them paying no tax, because they didn't invest, and then claiming welfare. There's an awful lot of people who could be self-funded but who choose not to - if anyone's going to be the target of higher taxes then that's who it would seem fair to aim it at.


----------



## SirRumpole (20 January 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> There's an awful lot of people who could be self-funded but who choose not to - if anyone's going to be the target of higher taxes then that's who it would seem fair to aim it at.




Are you referring to people on the pension living in million $ homes ?

I'm not sure how you would go about taxing this without a severe voter backlash like Labor suffered at the mere mention of franking credit changes, but obviously this is an example of "choosing not to be self funded", when in theory they could downsize and invest the balance for income.


----------



## Smurf1976 (20 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Are you referring to people on the pension living in million $ homes ?




I'm referring more broadly to anyone who has the means to support themselves but who chooses to rely on welfare.

The sort of people who earn $150K a year, travel overseas every year, buy expensive cars etc and then expect welfare the moment something goes wrong and who's retirement plan is the Age Pension. I know people like that yes.

I also know people who've never had any job higher than manual labouring, cleaning, delivery driver etc sort of jobs and who are completely self-funded in retirement. They just lived below their means and invested.

If anyone's going to be given incentives of any sort via the tax system well the latter seems far more deserving than the former.


----------



## Humid (20 January 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> If there's one thing I'd really like to see change in Australian politics it's the notion that everyone ought to vote for self interest which the media constantly promotes.
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't like that always, there was a much greater focus on what was good for the country overall, and we'd all ultimately benefit from a return to that.



Like the uproar on franking credits versus the abolition of penalty rates type self interest?


----------



## sptrawler (20 January 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> I'm referring more broadly to anyone who has the means to support themselves but who chooses to rely on welfare.
> 
> The sort of people who earn $150K a year, travel overseas every year, buy expensive cars etc and then expect welfare the moment something goes wrong and who's retirement plan is the Age Pension. I know people like that yes.
> 
> ...



That smurf is the key to the whole problem IMO.
I also know many people who fall into both categories, to constantly punish endeavour and a responsible attitude is just going to drive it out of the Australian culture, but it appears that is what is wanted by the media.
Well the end result will be interesting.IMO I know younger people who *were* working hard to become self funded and now are working hard toward becoming self sufficient and Government funded, it is all turning out pretty sad for Australia IMO.


----------



## Smurf1976 (20 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Are you referring to people on the pension living in million $ homes ?




As a concept going half way might be more acceptable politically.

Pay them the full pension as normal but upon death government has first claim on the property to recover the pension amount paid.

That doesn’t necessarily force a sale if whoever’s inheriting it prefers to pay $ to government and keep the house although if it is sold then government takes some $.

A property value limit of say the average price in Sydney (since that’s the most expensive market) might be a reasonable line in the sand applied nationally? Anything below that no issue, above it the Pension is effectively an interest free loan not a gift.


----------



## Smurf1976 (20 January 2020)

Humid said:


> Like the uproar on franking credits versus the abolition of penalty rates type self interest?



I see both as much the same.

Divide and conquer is exactly what they are.


----------



## Humid (20 January 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> I see both as much the same.
> 
> Divide and conquer is exactly what they are.



Yeah but one happened the other didnt


----------



## sptrawler (20 January 2020)

Humid said:


> Like the uproar on franking credits versus the abolition of penalty rates type self interest?



They both hit the little person, like smurf said they are similar arguments, yet divided opinion.


----------



## sptrawler (20 January 2020)

Humid said:


> Yeah but one happened the other didn't



That doesn't change the principal, behind the orginal concepts.


----------



## Smurf1976 (20 January 2020)

Humid said:


> Yeah but one happened the other didnt



It would be better if neither had occurred.

United we stand, divided we fall.....


----------



## qldfrog (20 January 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> I'm referring more broadly to anyone who has the means to support themselves but who chooses to rely on welfare.
> 
> The sort of people who earn $150K a year, travel overseas every year, buy expensive cars etc and then expect welfare the moment something goes wrong and who's retirement plan is the Age Pension. I know people like that yes.
> 
> ...



You mentioned deserving and i think you are using an odd and now obsolete context: you see taxation as a kind of social justice, it is not anymore, it is a grab for cash :
Get as much as you can with best ROI for the ATO
Do not see further
A few lollipops for election time but basically tax as much as you can
Otherwise all tax bracket would be indexed, gov expenses per citizen indexed etc etc
You  are in a country where even capital gain is not indexed anymore
Seriously...
As for the ATO themselves, what a bunch of wankers.
ato made a mistake inputting a written figure in their system, 4 months fights so far, 4 calls, 2 letters, not even a response or acknowledgement and still owned 1k
They can not even consider they could be at fault..

Kafka..


----------



## SirRumpole (20 January 2020)

The word "rort" comes to mind...

*Scott Morrison's local soccer club boasted about funding weeks before grants announced*

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-20/scott-morrison-sports-grants-lilli-pilli/11881578


----------



## sptrawler (20 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> The word "rort" comes to mind...
> 
> *Scott Morrison's local soccer club boasted about funding weeks before grants announced*
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-20/scott-morrison-sports-grants-lilli-pilli/11881578



That is the 'word' that is meant to come to mind, good pick up.


----------



## SirRumpole (20 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> That is the 'word' that is meant to come to mind, good pick up.




Nothing unusual as far as you're concerned ?


----------



## sptrawler (20 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Nothing unusual as far as you're concerned ?



Absolutely not, this sort of thing will go on until he is removed, then the next P.M pops his or her head up and off it goes again.
Even if there is an apology next week, for misrepresenting the facts, it would make a small article on the back page.
If there has been corruption someone should face court and the grant removed, pretty simple really.
If I took notice of every half truth and innuendo in the media, I'd be as crazy as some others.


----------



## SirRumpole (20 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Absolutely not, this sort of thing will go on until he is removed, then the next P.M pops his or her head up and off it goes again.
> Even if there is an apology next week, for misrepresenting the facts, it would make a small article on the back page.
> If there has been corruption someone should face court and the grant removed, pretty simple really.
> If I took notice of every half truth and innuendo in the media, I'd be as crazy as some others.




As crazy as the Auditor General perhaps.

https://www.ausleisure.com.au/news/...seats-with-potentially-illegal-sports-grants/


----------



## Smurf1976 (20 January 2020)

Nothing new about this sadly, "sports rorts" was a term that became popular back when Keating was PM and sports funding records were infamously kept by Ross Kelly on a whiteboard. 

That doesn't make it even slightly acceptable, just pointing out that it's nothing new.


----------



## sptrawler (20 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> As crazy as the Auditor General perhaps.
> 
> https://www.ausleisure.com.au/news/...seats-with-potentially-illegal-sports-grants/



Like I said if someone has been rorting take them to court, this 24/7 trail by media about everything that happens in every aspect of life, is one of the reasons I don't watch the media.
Just start and demand legal action, if there is evidence send some f%$er to jail, with a bit of luck they will empty parliament and we can elect a whole new group.


----------



## sptrawler (20 January 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Nothing new about this sadly, "sports rorts" was a term that became popular back when Keating was PM
> 
> That doesn't make it even slightly acceptable, just pointing out that it's nothing new.



Which is what I'm alluding to, the media try and make everything an OMG moment and everyone on que goes OMG, it is all a bit like a pantomime.
I'm a bit surprised the media don't give away away a free bag of chips and popcorn, with every paper sold.


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## Smurf1976 (20 January 2020)

qldfrog said:


> You mentioned deserving and i think you are using an odd and now obsolete context: you see taxation as a kind of social justice, it is not anymore, it is a grab for cash




There's that aspect but my underlying reasoning is somewhat more hard nosed than that.

If someone stops working age 55, spends 5 years on the Newstart treadmill, lives on their compulsory super age 60 - 67 and then goes onto the Age Pension until death well that can easily be a $350K cost to government and that's just for one person.

If I was the treasurer, and I could persuade people to self-fund their own retirement, well then that's a huge saving and remains so even if they don't pay even one cent in tax on their investment earnings.

The benefit to government comes through never paying them Newstart or the Age Pension. If they pay some tax well that's just a bonus, the icing on the cake, but it wouldn't be foolish enough to make the tax high enough to discourage this idea and have them on Newstart / Age Pension instead. That would be seriously silly.

I'm seeing it as a business thing far more than an ideological one. Get people self-funded of their own accord if they're out of work or retired, that cuts government spending = taxes can be reduced and that makes Australian business more competitive and the economy benefits.

How to push people to do that is a bit of a question yes but point is no way should anyone be discouraged from doing so.


----------



## Smurf1976 (20 January 2020)

Meanwhile down in Tasmania I see that Peter Gutwein is the new Premier.

What can I say?

Well I'll say that the sooner Tasmanians come to their senses and elect a Labor government, or for that matter anyone who isn't Liberal, the smaller will be the financial black hole to be filled. I'm in SA these days but for heaven's sake people in Tassie, read the damn budget papers and stop the rot at the next election otherwise you'll end up broke.


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## sptrawler (20 January 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> There's that aspect but my underlying reasoning is somewhat more hard nosed than that.
> 
> If someone stops working age 55, spends 5 years on the Newstart treadmill, lives on their compulsory super age 60 - 67 and then goes onto the Age Pension until death well that can easily be a $350K cost to government and that's just for one person.
> 
> ...



Try and get that message through to the masses, even trying to get the media to understand it, is impossible. I said to someone a long time ago, you either have to be filthy rich or just under the full pension threshold, if you get caught in the middle you will be cannon fodder.
It took till last election for him to understand what I was talking about. Now I'm seeing everyone I know aiming for the latter, which is a shame and is just another nail in Australia's living standard.
The rush to the bottom is on IMO, people aren't stupid and the last election just gave the working class a heads up on what's coming.
By the way, I'm off to Canada and the U.S in April.


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## IFocus (20 January 2020)

Its worth noting that since Howard introduced the ATO paying out franking credits its now $8bil (19/20) and growing, its more than the federal government spends on education, says a hell of a lot about Australia as a nation and its priorities.

I think its a disgrace.

Rapidly moving from the lucky country to full on stupid country


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## sptrawler (20 January 2020)

IFocus said:


> Its worth noting that since Howard introduced the ATO paying out franking credits its now $8bil (19/20) and growing, its more than the federal government spends on education, says a hell of a lot about Australia as a nation and its priorities.
> 
> I think its a disgrace.
> 
> Rapidly moving from the lucky country to full on stupid country



https://www.afr.com/companies/minin...-fantastic-for-andrew-forrest-20190220-h1bhh3

https://www.afr.com/companies/minin...m-surprise-fortescue-dividend-20190514-p51n8d

https://www.afr.com/policy/tax-and-...-forrest-took-different-paths-20160323-gnp7qt
From the article:
_In contrast, the special purpose accounts that Tattarang filed with the Australian Securities and Investments Commission show the company earned only $197 million in 2014.

This was $4 million in dividends and $193 million in distributions from the Peepingee Trust, which holds the bulk of Mr Forrest's shareholding in Fortescue.

The higher figures for taxable income in the ATO data suggest that other related entities have been consolidated into the Tattarang tax return which the ASIC accounts do not include.

The distribution to Tattarang appears to have been in the form of shares, with Tattarang reporting it had available for sale investments at a fair value of $242.5 million at June 30 2014
The dividends would have been franked, and thus tax-free. By transferring assets to Tattarang in the form of a capital distribution, Mr Forrest appears to have ensured the payment was not taxable, though the accounts record a $4.7 million deferred tax liability_.
Absolutely.


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## Smurf1976 (20 January 2020)

IFocus said:


> Its worth noting that since Howard introduced the ATO paying out franking credits its now $8bil (19/20) and growing, its more than the federal government spends on education, says a hell of a lot about Australia as a nation and its priorities.



How much are we paying out in the exact same Tax Free Threshold and 19% tax rate to everyone else? 

How much are we paying out for Newstart and Age Pension because people didn't invest when they could have?

How much will it cost the budget if those who'd be up for higher taxes in dividends decide it's all too much and simply don't bother investing and claim welfare instead? 

A lot more than $8 billion for each one of those.....


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## sptrawler (20 January 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> How much are we paying out in the exact same Tax Free Threshold and 19% tax rate to everyone else?
> 
> How much are we paying out for Newstart and Age Pension because people didn't invest when they could have?
> 
> ...



I told you it was a waste of time.
People only believe what the media tells them, they can't see that reducing the amount a billionaire pays by 30% costs more, than giving a self funded pensioner a small amount and stopping them accessing the pension.
No it is better to take $6k of franking credits of a self funded pensioner, so that they sell their shares spend their money and get $10k of pension + the health care card + cheap rates, cheap licenses, cheap presciptions, than to make a billionaire pay 30% tax.
Yep the clever Country, is there any wonder the S bend is coming up fast.
Just booking a trip to China end of September. they wont have to worry about getting my franking credits.lol


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## IFocus (20 January 2020)

Franking credits will be changed no ifs no buts, how I don't know but it will the drag on revenue is massive, put up any argument you like but what cannot happen wont what the government cannot afford they won't pay.


As for welfare age pension is by far the biggest expense and growing rapidly just like franking credits note how small unemployment benefit is.


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## sptrawler (20 January 2020)

IFocus said:


> Franking credits will be changed no ifs no buts, how I don't know but it will the drag on revenue is massive, put up any argument you like but what cannot happen wont what the government cannot afford they won't pay.
> 
> 
> As for welfare age pension is by far the biggest expense and growing rapidly just like franking credits note how small unemployment benefit is.




The gain from not paying franking credits, to self funded retirees, will cost more in welfare and associated costs brought about by people qualifying for the age pension. Time will tell, but I bet it will be found true, within one term of Government. 
There was only talk of taking it off SMSF and those who didn't pay tax, not including those in Industry or Retail funds.
Therefore those who transferred to super funds would still qualify and those who get part age pension qualify.
Also the savings quoted were before the $1.6m cap was introduced and therefore the money in accumulation qualifies as well.
It was a joke that would have backfired, but it would have got in to being and more people would have been pushed onto the pension.
It was just a nasty attempt, to force SMSF money into Industry Funds.
If it was about being unaffordable, take it off all super funds and trusts, I'd agree to that and would save ten times the amount.
It was all BS and lies.


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## macca (20 January 2020)

Yes, no doubt a ploy suggested by the Super Funds to gain more commission as SMSF transfer over to the big funds.

They mention that the tax refunds have grown over the years, that is good news, it simply means that more people have saved and invested for their retirement.

As the number of retired people grow we need everyone to sock a bit away to ease the burden on those still working


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## Smurf1976 (20 January 2020)

IFocus said:


> Franking credits will be changed no ifs no buts, how I don't know but it will the drag on revenue is massive, put up any argument you like but what cannot happen wont what the government cannot afford they won't pay.



An observation having spent much of my working life thus far in situations where it is at times necessary to ask others to go considerably beyond what they really have to do, a concept that anyone who's worked in utilities and so on will likely be familiar with, there's a few unwritten rules which go with this:

1. Make sure everyone understands the need. Show them hard data not just your opinion.

2. Go through all the options with proper facts and figures and explain why we're going with this one and not some other way. Expect scrutiny and remember that yes, the boss does indeed need to answer to those below at least they do if they want respect.

3. Make sure that everyone's pulling their weight and this includes management. No reason the bosses can't be on the tools if this really is an emergency.

Now translating that to this debate about franking credits, what Labor needs to do is:

1. Explain the need. Hard facts and figures not ideological stuff.

2. Put everything on the table and have a broader debate about tax reform. And yes, politicians are indeed answerable to the public who don't like being told otherwise by the leader of a party.

3. If removing franking credits is indeed the best option, it goes without saying that they'll be removed for everyone and starting at the top not the bottom. No chance it's going to be accepted to remove them for someone on $30K but retain them for someone on $30 million a year and no chance that loopholes involving handing money over to certain fund managers will be tolerated either. If we're removing franking credits well then we're removing franking credits - gone outright not just for some. 

Do that and I doubt they'd have too much trouble getting it through. Yes the industry funds will be paying just like everyone else and so will the billionaires. No loopholes or exemptions unless they apply to everyone. "Everyone pulling their weight" as it goes.


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## qldfrog (21 January 2020)

About franking credits, for liabiity reason, i own a one man company
Profit taxed at 30pc.whatever company rate is
Without franking credit,any distribution would then be taxed twice first 30pc then own tax rate
Found difficult it could be seen as fair...


----------



## Smurf1976 (21 January 2020)

Thinking about the tax question more broadly:

Government needs revenue in order to fund a wide range of services expected by the community or necessary for the nation's functioning. There's no real question about that.

Taxing businesses and/or individuals is thus a necessary evil. Nobody's ever going to like paying tax but it has to be.

The question thus comes down to doing it in a manner that's broadly proportionate to ability to pay and which doesn't produce a change in behaviour so as to avoid the tax, unless that change in behaviour is itself seen as highly desirable (eg sin taxes).

The broad concept that an increasing % rate of taxation applies as income increases, that is progressive taxation, seems to be broadly accepted in Australia and many other countries. Few seem to be objecting to the basic notion that someone earning $500K should pay more than 10 times as much tax as someone earning $50K. That said, at no point should the marginal rate reach or exceed 100% - all that does is in practice stop the earning of that money since few are going to work and hand over literally 100% to government, indeed the practical limit would be somewhere considerably lower (perhaps 50% at a rough guess).

Back to the franking credits, well the basic principle should be that someone who earns $x pays y amount of tax. How they earned that isn't something that's acknowledged at present in other contexts, anyone from a professor of history to a sex worker is paying the same rates assuming they're complying with the law, so it would seem unwarranted to treat investment income any differently. That is, tax it at the same rates that would apply if that income came from any other source. Someone earning $x pays $y tax whether that's from dividends, working, rent or whatever.

The only exception I'd make to that principle is in relation to venture capital. We ought to have a special class of shares, able to be issued by startup companies etc to fund their development, and as an encouragement to invest I'd tax that at a much lower rate, perhaps even zero, so long as the original shareholder continues to own those shares. Noting that such shares would only ever be issued by startups, the rules would preclude them being issued by any established business, the intent is to encourage investment into such companies and foster an entrepreneurial culture rather than focusing solely on existing shares, houses and so on. The associated rules would also include salary caps on senior managers of the business prior to and for a specified period following the issuing of such shares so as to minimise any rorting opportunities. Also a requirement that the physical operations of the business are conducted primarily in Australia - so an Australian company with a factory in China doesn't qualify.


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## SirRumpole (21 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Like I said if someone has been rorting take them to court, this 24/7 trail by media about everything that happens in every aspect of life, is one of the reasons I don't watch the media.
> Just start and demand legal action, if there is evidence send some f%$er to jail, with a bit of luck they will empty parliament and we can elect a whole new group.




If there was a Federal Corruption Commission then someone would most likely end up in court.

This case is one reason why there should be one and a pretty damning example of why there isn't.


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## orr (21 January 2020)

Gods taken a dump on Canberra and on the Sutherland Shire, Caringbah in particular. Ahh if only it wasn't just a coincidence. And I belived the Diety was trying to tell me something. Happy Clapping to all at the Taren Point Baptist revivolist Used car sales and Real Estate Warehouse/Monastery...
The Semon this week is from 'the Book Of Solomon'  'How inequity is good for All...(rich people)' 

And Bas ... Gussy Taylor, like a two legged dog. You can keep them alive, but it's no life.


----------



## sptrawler (21 January 2020)

qldfrog said:


> About franking credits, for liabiity reason, i own a one man company
> Profit taxed at 30pc.whatever company rate is
> Without franking credit,any distribution would then be taxed twice first 30pc then own tax rate
> Found difficult it could be seen as fair...



That is a lot different, to someone who has a company to wash their tax obligation through, so that everything they get is tax free.


----------



## sptrawler (21 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> That is a lot different, to someone who has a company to wash their tax obligation through, so that everything they get is tax free.



As we said when this tax issue first came up and still remains today, the whole tax system requires an overhaul, Super, Trusts, Shelf Companies the whole lot of it. To focus on a sub set of one sector, was obviously not about tax reform.


----------



## qldfrog (21 January 2020)

_Few seem to be objecting to the basic notion that someone earning $500K should pay more than 10 times as much tax as someone earning $50K. That said, at no point should the marginal rate reach or exceed 100%_
I do and would consider that paying 10 times more than your neighbour while requiring LESS need would be already quite a lot of wealth transfer;
In Australia, legally this is nowhere near 10 times more but something like 20 more, so as a result the said individual either stops work, move O/S in more sensible country or pay a tax accountant and ends up paying nothing, or at least far less than the 100k individual..who ends up the sucker...again
"Progressive taxation system" is a punitive redistribution tool which will end up being the death of the west


----------



## IFocus (21 January 2020)

"Now translating that to this debate about franking credits, what Labor needs to do is"

Apologies Smurf haven't read all of yours or anyone else's comments but the above caught my eye.

Forget Labors attempts to address the issue it did not fly.

But the problem won't go away whether the revenue comes from a different source or as a result of winding back the franking credits hand out at some point you cannot keep handing out revenue that is not targeted to serve the purpose of government.

Realistically the whole tax system require reform (everyone knows this) so that any imbalance in removing franking credits are addressed. Note the current arguments for keeping franking credits wouldn't get a guernsey because of the changes for greater efficiencies required for effective taxes. 

With the election of a populous no policy d!ckhead tax reform is probably a generation away and will be too late I note again the cost of franking credits is higher than the cost of education thats forsaking Australia's future right there, disgusting.


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## PZ99 (21 January 2020)

I think the market will decide the future of franking credits. 

ANZ cut theirs by 30% so maybe expect other banks, then other companies to follow suit


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## sptrawler (21 January 2020)

IFocus said:


> With the election of a populous no policy d!ckhead tax reform is probably a generation away and will be too late I note again the cost of franking credits is higher than the cost of education thats forsaking Australia's future right there, disgusting.



Maybe if the opposition had been more honest and equitable with their focus, they may well have been in Government now, they will always have trouble getting support if their policies can't stand scrutiny.
As I said, if their policy had said all who don't pay tax don't get the credits, that is fine.
They didn't say that, I would rather have no policy d!ckheads, than nasty ba$tards that want to attack a small sector of the community.
Obviously as per the election result, most agreed with my sentiments, except the rich of course they would have kept their $250m pay packet tax free.


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## SirRumpole (21 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Maybe if the opposition had been more honest and equitable with their focus, they may well have been in Government now,




I think they would be in government now had they been *less* honest.

That seems to be the way things happen these days.


----------



## Logique (21 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> I think they would be in government now had they been *less* honest.
> That seems to be the way things happen these days.



More's the pity. This I will allow Bill Shorten and Chris Bowen, they at least levelled with the Australian people. Not many on either side that do that.


----------



## sptrawler (21 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> I think they would be in government now had they been *less* honest.
> 
> That seems to be the way things happen these days.



That's true but then they would wear the tag of not taking it to the election, really they ended up with too many vested interests wanting Bill to do things for them, it all became a big mess.
Morrison needs to lift his game or he will be thrown out, four terms of doing nothing wont cut it that's for sure.


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## Smurf1976 (21 January 2020)

IFocus said:


> Realistically the whole tax system require reform



Ultimately that's what it comes down to but I'd add to the list that welfare also needs substantial reform.

I'm not opposed to the concept ideologically, indeed I think that realistically Newstart probably ought to be increased, but there's something fundamentally wrong when (depending on who's figures you use) something like a third or even half or all households are receiving some sort of handout.

Handing people money because they bought a house, had a baby or simply because they're old and taxing everyone to pay for that seems rather odd. It's akin to taking water out one end of the bath and tipping it in the other - zero net benefit. Let people keep more of their own money then they can afford to raise the child, buy a house, save for their retirement or whatever.

Needless to say the manner in which government spends money on other things also needs a serious look at and by that I mean everything from dubious allocation of grants for sports facilities through to paying $38K to install a power point.


----------



## sptrawler (21 January 2020)

IMO the problem with super is, it is still evolving and its direction is being developed on the run, rather than following a pre defined strategy. There will come a time where everyone who has worked, will have a large enough amount that they can fund their own retirement, but also those who don't work want and expect a comfortable retirement from the age pension.
So at the moment because the majority don't have enough in super, the temptation is to take it off those who have saved in super, to give to those who haven't.
Well that will soon become a big issue as both numbers grow, so what they will have to do is find a way that encourages those who work to save for retirement, not discourage them.
The only way I can see it working is the same as Canada, U.K and NZ, where everyone gets a pension and those who want to save more for a better retirement can do so, but the retirement income from the super is taxed the same as wages.
Then the money going in and while it is growing has a tax break, but when it comes out it is treated the same as normal income. That would have to streamline a lot of the issues and also take away the stigma of the age pension.


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## Logique (21 January 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Ultimately that's what it comes down to but I'd add to the list that welfare also needs substantial reform.
> I'm not opposed to the concept ideologically, indeed I think that realistically Newstart probably ought to be increased, but there's something fundamentally wrong when (depending on who's figures you use) something like a third or even half or all households are receiving some sort of handout.
> Handing people money because they bought a house, had a baby or simply because they're old and taxing everyone to pay for that seems rather odd. It's akin to taking water out one end of the bath and tipping it in the other - zero net benefit. Let people keep more of their own money then they can afford to raise the child, buy a house, save for their retirement or whatever.
> Needless to say the manner in which government spends money on other things also needs a serious look at and by that I mean everything from dubious allocation of grants for sports facilities through to paying $38K to install a power point.



Mate, you're too smart to be on a public forum. And if that wasn't enough, also visible from space at Christmas time!  Can't disagree with any of that


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## Logique (21 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> IMO the problem with super is, it is still evolving and its direction is being developed on the run, rather than following a pre defined strategy. There will come a time where everyone who has worked, will have a large enough amount that they can fund their own retirement, but also those who don't work want and expect a comfortable retirement from the age pension.
> So at the moment because the majority don't have enough in super, the temptation is to take it off those who have saved in super, to give to those who haven't.
> Well that will soon become a big issue as both numbers grow, so what they will have to do is find a way that encourages those who work to save for retirement, not discourage them.
> The only way I can see it working is the same as Canada, U.K and NZ, where everyone gets a pension and those who want to save more for a better retirement can do so, but the retirement income from the super is taxed the same as wages.
> Then the money going in and while it is growing has a tax break, but when it comes out it is treated the same as normal income. That would have to streamline a lot of the issues and also take away the stigma of the age pension.



I like it spT:
 ".._The only way I can see it working is the same as Canada, U.K and NZ, where everyone gets a pension and those who want to save more for a better retirement can do so, but the retirement income from the super is taxed the same as wages... spTrawler"_


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## SirRumpole (21 January 2020)

The sports rorts fiasco deepens with a Constitutional lawyer questioning the legal power of the Minister and the Federal government to award the grants.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01...e-power-in-sports-grants-says-twomey/11885018


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## SirRumpole (21 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> That's true but then they would wear the tag of not taking it to the election,




That never bothered Hawke and Keating.


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## sptrawler (21 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> That never bothered Hawke and Keating.



That's true, but the workers were well over them by the end and they were popular.


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## sptrawler (21 January 2020)

IFocus said:


> Franking credits will be changed no ifs no buts, how I don't know but it will the drag on revenue is massive, put up any argument you like but what cannot happen wont what the government cannot afford they won't pay.
> 
> 
> As for welfare age pension is by far the biggest expense and growing rapidly just like franking credits note how small unemployment benefit is.
> ...



I think if you look at your graph IFocus, the elephant in the room is disability, carer's and NDIS, that sector is growing faster than anything else.


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## chiff (22 January 2020)

Are you talking about looking after the needy and not the greedy?


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## sptrawler (22 January 2020)

chiff said:


> Are you talking about looking after the needy and not the greedy?



We are talking about funding in general and the ways to tax to pay for it, without getting all emotive about. Which appears to be the difficult part these days.


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## basilio (22 January 2020)

Prominent  Liberal Party Climate denier, serial liar and the coal lobbies  current favorite xitch Craig Kelly has been busily lying about climate science on his Facebook Page.

One of the scientists hose work he "misrepresents"  (that is being so nice ...) has  corrected him on his Farce Book page.

* UK climate scientist corrects Australian MP Craig Kelly's 'blatant misrepresentation' *
Prof Sandy Harrison tells the Liberal on his Facebook page that his misuse of her study should not go unchallenged

Graham Readfearn

 
 @readfearn 
Wed 22 Jan 2020 13.36 AEDT   Last modified on Wed 22 Jan 2020 13.38 AEDT
Shares
3





Craig Kelly has used Prof Sandy Harrison’s study to claim in a Facebook post that rising CO2 can’t be linked to Australia’s bushfire crisis. Photograph: Mike Bowers/The Guardian
A leading UK climate scientist has used the Facebook page of the MP Craig Kelly to correct his “blatant misrepresentation” of a study she co-authored on a 70,000-year history of bushfires in Australia.

Kelly, a serial denier of climate change, has been using the 2011 study to claim rising CO2 in the atmosphere can’t be linked to Australia’s bushfire crisis, because the study had shown total area being burned was going down while CO2 is rising.

But Prof Sandy Harrison told Guardian Australia: “I am a working scientist and I do not routinely engage in arguments on social media, but I do not think that the misuse of scientific analyses should be allowed to go unchallenged.”

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...ian-mp-craig-kellys-blatant-misrepresentation


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## basilio (22 January 2020)

Meanwhile  the BS that ScoMo is sprouting about "protecting jobs" by not doing anything to reduce emissions is eviscerated  very nicely thank you.
* No one job is worth saving at the expense of climate catastrophe. Not even Scott Morrison's *
Richard Denniss
Promising Australia won’t tackle the climate crisis unless every coal worker’s job is safe is a cruel hoax designed to conceal inaction

Would the prime minister rule out protecting Australians from terrorism if it cost a single job? Would he promise that no nurse, teacher or other public servant would be sacked in pursuit of a budget surplus? Of course not. But when it comes to preventing dangerous climate change, the government whose policies closed the entire Australian car industry claims that every job is sacred. Yeah, right.

The one thing we can say with certainty about the coal industry is that, regardless of climate policy, automation will decimate coal communities in the coming decade. The coal companies sacked around half their workforce in the late 80s – the minute new technology let them – and the coal industry is gearing up to do it again. Adani promised its proposed Queensland coalmine would be automated “from pit to port” and the rest of the industry is publicly preparing for the same goal.

But while #ScottyFromMarketing loves to position himself as defending coal workers from climate activists, he is strategically silent when it comes to protecting those same coal workers from the ravages of automation. If the Coalition wanted to protect the jobs of those who currently work in the coal industry, they would ban the introduction of robot-driven trucks and trains in existing mines and ban the construction of new, highly automated mines in regions that have never mined coal. But they won’t, because supporting the coal industry has nothing to do with protecting the jobs of existing coal workers. Coal is about symbolism and the symbiotic relationship between the Coalition and the coal industry.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-climate-catastrophe-not-even-scott-morrisons


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## IFocus (22 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> We are talking about funding in general and the ways to tax to pay for it, without getting all emotive about. Which appears to be the difficult part these days.




Chiffs point exactly, tax reform would see franking credits gone, it would see the need to raise revue for the purpose required of government that means yes heaven forbid the thought, helping those less well off or disadvantaged you know that old Australian-ism no longer held (a fair go) not hand it to the likes of Dick Smith $100,000s every year. 
The elephant BTW remains the pension (you can own assets worth millions and still get it)not disability, carer's and NDIS IMHO


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## IFocus (22 January 2020)

Talking about the sports rort anyone here thinking the quite Australians don't care?

Waiting for the question to Smoko "will Bridget be handing out the grants to farmer bushfire victims and which seats will benefit?"


----------



## sptrawler (22 January 2020)

IFocus said:


> Chiffs point exactly, tax reform would see franking credits gone, it would see the need to raise revue for the purpose required of government that means yes heaven forbid the thought, helping those less well off or disadvantaged you know that old Australian-ism no longer held (a fair go) not hand it to the likes of Dick Smith $100,000s every year.
> The elephant BTW remains the pension (you can own assets worth millions and still get it)not disability, carer's and NDIS IMHO



The issue wasn't about taking the franking credits off Dick Smith, Twiggy Forrest, it was about taking it of low income people and self funded retirees with minimal income.
But like I said, it is very hard to keep the emotion out of the discussion.
Also recent reports suggest the pension wont be a problem by 2030, as super balances increase.


----------



## sptrawler (22 January 2020)

IFocus said:


> The elephant BTW remains the pension (you can own assets worth millions and still get it)not disability, carer's and NDIS IMHO



What I was meaning by the elephant in the room comment was, in reference to the growth trajectory not who qualifies, more the fact that it is increasing and points to a decline in our underlying health.
I didn't actually realise this until you posted up the graph, but having seen the graph it is climbing extremely fast.
With regard owning millions of $ in assets, that can be fixed by introducing a death tax, which isn't a bad idea as it lets those who earnt it enjoy it, but it is taxed when passed on a bit like a defered capital gains tax.
Another tax that keeps being suggested is a land tax to replace stamp duty, that probably has merrit also, another one could be to allow first home buyers to claim a tax deduction on their interest and drop negative gearing on investment properties.
Another suggestion was to cap the amount of franking credit that is claimable, or remove the refund completely, as long as it can be shown it is done equitably I don't think there would be any problem.
The issue Labour had was those on welfare could claim it, those in industry funds could claim it, billionaires could claim it, the only ones who couldn't were self funded retirees in a SMSF and low income people. I really don't know how they expected that to float.
Anyway I'm sure there are lots of things being considered and people will have to vote on them when they are put forward.


----------



## Smurf1976 (22 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> The issue Labour had was those on welfare could claim it, those in industry funds could claim it, billionaires could claim it, the only ones who couldn't were self funded retirees in a SMSF and low income people.



That’s what it came down to.

It’s rather hard to argue that we can’t afford to not collect a tax from some blue collar worker who was thrown on the scrapheap at age 55 and who earns $30K a year from having invested their own money, which they’ve already paid full rates of Income Tax on when they earned it, but yeah no worries we’ll give actual billionaires an exemption.

That’s where the bit about Labor having abandoned their traditional support base came from. They should have done the exact opposite if there was a need to cut it back - start with the billionaires not the bricklayers.

The trouble with both major parties is they’re stuffed full of people who’ve lived rather comfortable lives doing things which are a very long way removed from the reality of those they supposedly represent.


----------



## SirRumpole (22 January 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> That’s where the bit about Labor having abandoned their traditional support base came from. They should have done the exact opposite if there was a need to cut it back - start with the billionaires not the bricklayers.




I don't really think many with SMSF's are traditional Labor base.

More likely Labor's push for higher renewable energy targets frightened those who are currently struggling to pay their power bills, and those in coal mining electorates like the Hunter wondered if they would still have a job under Labor.



Smurf1976 said:


> The trouble with both major parties is they’re stuffed full of people who’ve lived rather comfortable lives doing things which are a very long way removed from the reality of those they supposedly represent.




Totally agree there.

Disasters for people like Morrison, Craig Kelly, Fried Burger etc is losing their job and their fat super pension, not bushfires or floods.


----------



## sptrawler (22 January 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> The trouble with both major parties is they’re stuffed full of people who’ve lived rather comfortable lives doing things which are a very long way removed from the reality of those they supposedly represent.



That is why neither Party is addressing the issues, neither has a clue what the reality is like.
It is very much like people who haven't had children, telling those that have, how it should be done.


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## sptrawler (22 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> I don't really think many with SMSF's are traditional Labor base.
> 
> More likely Labor's push for higher renewable energy targets frightened those who are currently struggling to pay their power bills, and those in coal mining electorates like the Hunter wondered if they would still have a job under Labor.
> .



I hope the labour Party believe that.


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## SirRumpole (22 January 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> The trouble with both major parties is they’re stuffed full of people who’ve lived rather comfortable lives doing things which are a very long way removed from the reality of those they supposedly represent.





sptrawler said:


> I hope the labour Party believe that.




Well maybe we could have a quick whip round here as to those who have retired on SMSF's and how often they voted Labor.


----------



## sptrawler (22 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Well maybe we could have a quick whip round here as to those who have retired on SMSF's and how often they voted Labor.



I guess that doesn't matter, what matters is why the affluent areas swung to Labour and the blue collar areas swung away, If you think it was climate change and coal mines fine.

I think it was the loss of franking credits to low income people, be they working or retired and the effect the removal of negative gearing would have had on established home values.

One thing for sure, it wasn't because the Liberals were a brilliant choice for Government.

It is hardly a representitive cross sectional view, polling an investment forum, but as the papers proved polling means nothing, just my opinion.


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## chiff (22 January 2020)

As the argument went on franking credits-there are other opportunities to get a decent return other than franking credits.I get franking credits but I am not in love with them and see them as quasi-rort.I have never been to a financial adviser.A member of my family was a financial adviser and I would not have trusted him with my wheelbarrow or my dog.I am trying to ween myself off franking credits...got an email from a mob that I already have money with NBI ....world wide bonds...pay 6 percent.If they are as safe as Australian Banks time will tell ?...but they are listed on ASX so I can sell pronto if I get worried.With the franking credit arguments, they must all be with financial advisers and need their advice to diversify.Their penury arguments never gelled with me -they never showed their hands.


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## SirRumpole (22 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I guess that doesn't matter, what matters is why the affluent areas swung to Labour and the blue collar areas swung away, If you think it was climate change and coal mines fine.
> 
> I think it was the loss of franking credits to low income people, be they working or retired and the effect the removal of negative gearing would have had on established home values.
> 
> ...




Labor should know the answers by now after their "listening" trips, let's hope they learned their lesson, whatever that is.

The electorate is basically conservative and Labor doesn't get in without a charismatic leader who can demonstrate he/she is switched on to the modern thinking, and Bill wasn't it. Frankly I'm not sure Albo hits the spot either. Is there anyone else out there ? Not that I can see in the short term, but there are two and a bit years to go.


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## chiff (22 January 2020)

I see Morrison is now an expert on bushfires and hazard reduction.Wonder if he consulted the experts before his announcements-or more likely trying to divert for the rorting .I could see intelligence in Rudd and Turnbull ...but this bloke?


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## SirRumpole (22 January 2020)

chiff said:


> I see Morrison is now an expert on bushfires and hazard reduction.Wonder if he consulted the experts before his announcements-or more likely trying to divert for the rorting .I could see intelligence in Rudd and Turnbull ...but this bloke?




A failed marketing boy in a job too big for him imo.


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## Smurf1976 (22 January 2020)

chiff said:


> I am trying to ween myself off franking credits...got an email from a mob that I already have money with NBI ....world wide bonds...pay 6 percent.If they are as safe as Australian Banks time will tell ?...but they are listed on ASX so I can sell pronto if I get worried.With the franking credit arguments, they must all be with financial advisers and need their advice to diversify.Their penury arguments never gelled with me -they never showed their hands.




Thing is, if you go ahead with this plan then you're achieving the exact same result so far as government tax revenue is concerned as if you invested into shares paying franked dividends.

My point there isn't to have a shot at you personally, I'm just pointing out the maths of the situation. Not paying tax in the first place is ultimately the same as paying tax and then receiving it back, the end result is the same in terms of your contribution to government revenue.

I could put that another way by posing a question: When my neighbour returns my ladder that they've borrowed, does this constitute a gift to me at my neighbour's expense? The argument against franking credits says that yes it does and as such I should pay my neighbour for the ladder they've given me. Never mind that I bought it in the first place......


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## SirRumpole (22 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> It is very much like people who haven't had children, telling those that have, how it should be done.




Or paying higher taxes so other people can get a baby bonus or Family Tax Welfare.


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## sptrawler (22 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Or paying higher taxes so other people can get a baby bonus or Family Tax Welfare.



Absolutely, the tax system is there to fund what the Government of the day feel works, whether that is to support mothers going to work or to increase the population by other means than immigration.
It is up to the voters of the day to decide if they agree or disagree, there will never be a time that 100% agree or 100% disagree, that is how a democracy works.


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## Smurf1976 (22 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> I don't really think many with SMSF's are traditional Labor base.




I should perhaps clarify that my primary concern on the franking credits issue has always related to money held outside of superannuation.

Thinking of all those whose circumstances I'm aware of, most of those in blue collar (and many other) fields of work do realise that their exit from the workforce most likely won't be voluntary.

Perhaps it's due to health, perhaps it's due to injury, it could be actual family reasons, it could simply be a change of management, business loses a contract or depending on the employer the election of the "wrong" party to government. Regardless of the reason the reality is that odds are you'll be gone before you reach the superannuation preservation age which for those born after 1 July 1964 is age 60.

It's just a practical reality. The job you have the day you turn 50 will very likely be your last ever job. Ageism starts to set in after 40 and becomes a real problem after 50 unless you've got specialised skills in high demand by others which won't be the case for most.

Most I've either worked with or otherwise know their circumstances had some sort of plan, the only ones who didn't were generally still fairly young (under 30 mostly). For the rest, they've generally got some sort of plan and most fit into the categories of:

1. Go into some office-based line of work. Either management within the same industry, or even the same employer, or a career change into something else that involves sitting in front of a computer not crawling around in roofs.

2. Non-superannuation investments of some sort. Most won't be trading shares etc, it'll just be passively investing in managed funds or index funds, or it'll be property etc but invest in something outside of super. That means with money that you've already paid full rates of tax on and with Income Tax at marginal rates paid on dividends whilst you're still working.

3. Become self-employed. There's a reason why so many sole trader handyman type businesses are run by those aged 50-something. Ask them and they'll mostly tell you the same story that they worked for whoever, thought it would last until retirement but it didn't and they got made redundant, couldn't get another job so they started this business. And by the way, you said you're paying cash right? Don't need a receipt do you? 

4. Newstart. Doable if you've got a fully paid off house and a cheap lifestyle. Small chance you'll get a job but the odds are you won't. Give it a go though, not much choice really.

Now what I'm struggling with is the idea that those choosing option 2 ought to be the only group in society denied the $0 - $18,200 and $18,201 - $37,000 tax brackets at 0% and 19% respectively. Even actual billionaires get those and neither side of politics has suggested ending that.


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## sptrawler (22 January 2020)

chiff said:


> I see Morrison is now an expert on bushfires and hazard reduction.Wonder if he consulted the experts before his announcements-or more likely trying to divert for the rorting .I could see intelligence in Rudd and Turnbull ...but this bloke?



He must be an expert, because there wouldn't have been a fanfare when he was away, if he wasn't. At the very least it proved the Country can't function without him, so he should be a shoe in next election.


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## sptrawler (22 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> I don't really think many with SMSF's are traditional Labor base.
> .




I bet there will be plenty of blue collar workers, who have retired, sold their house in the City and downsized or moved to a country town and are self funded.


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## Smurf1976 (22 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Or paying higher taxes so other people can get a baby bonus or Family Tax Welfare.



If anyone needs an example of middle class welfare, that's it right there.


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## SirRumpole (22 January 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> I should perhaps clarify that my primary concern on the franking credits issue has always related to money held outside of superannuation.
> 
> Thinking of all those whose circumstances I'm aware of, most of those in blue collar (and many other) fields of work do realise that their exit from the workforce most likely won't be voluntary.




Yes, very good points.

One wonders how the people who used to work in the car industry got on after it shut down.

Did they get retraining that enabled them to get decent jobs ?

As much as the sharemarket looks good at the moment, a lot of people got wiped out in the GFC. Nothing beats a secure job imo which is why the rise of the gig economy and insecure work, plus the continual failure of retailing will eventually reduce us to third world status imo.

There really should be more concentration on trades. It's very hard to get robots to come round to your place to fix taps or a wiring problem. Gutting TAFE as has been done is a disaster.


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## macca (22 January 2020)

I think the SMSF rebate did threaten a lot of tradies, most around here are subbies or self employed and their accountants are strongly urging SMSF as a way of encouraging old age funding.

Those working for wages almost certainly would be in industry funds but so many companies require their installers, subbies, repair and maintence type blokes to have an ABS or no work.


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## sptrawler (22 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Or paying higher taxes so other people can get a baby bonus or Family Tax Welfare.



By the way, there was no baby bonus or family tax benefit, when we had our four kids in the 1970's.
Gough actually from memory brought in the single mother's pension then, before then when women got a black eye, they just had to turn the other cheek. There has been a constant change in welfare, to adapt to changing public demographics and needs both social and financial, I'm sure it hasn't finished changing yet.


----------



## SirRumpole (22 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> By the way, there was no baby bonus or family tax benefit, when we had our four kids in the 1970's.
> Gough actually from memory brought in the single mother's pension then, before then when women got a black eye, they just had to turn the other cheek. There has been a constant change in welfare, to adapt to changing public demographics and needs both social and financial, I'm sure it hasn't finished changing yet.




I really don't know if child payments makes things better or worse. Some people who can't afford kids would spend the money on alcohol, drugs , booze or gambling, and others would do the right thing and spend it on the kids.

Maybe FTB should only be available to those on Newstart or below the median wage, but that's another election losing policy so it will never happen.


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## sptrawler (22 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Maybe FTB should only be available to those on Newstart or below the median wage, but that's another election losing policy so it will never happen.



I suppose the problem with that is, those on newstart or below the median wage, might not pay any tax any way, so reducing the tax is probably difficult.


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## Smurf1976 (22 January 2020)

macca said:


> I think the SMSF rebate did threaten a lot of tradies, most around here are subbies or self employed and their accountants are strongly urging SMSF as a way of encouraging old age funding.




The message as received might differ between industries but the one I've heard for over a quarter century now has been pretty consistent.

Save for your retirement because the Pension won't be enough and with a not so subtle hint that it may not exist at all or at least not in a form that's at all desirable. Plus a firm reminder that anything in Super is subject to government control and can't be accessed until you're 60 (it was previously 55) so you need a decent chunk of it outside the system which means paying tax on it.

This whole issue is like many things in this country at the moment. Water, fires, climate, energy, taxes and so on all have something in common. We haven't stuffed up the plan or suffered some bad luck, we're not comparable to the tourist who misses the train because they didn't realise that it was a public holiday or their watch was slow.

No, we're akin to the clown who consciously decided to not check any train timetables and ranted about religion and being offended when someone at the hotel handed them one which they promptly ripped up and threw in the bin. As a country we haven't failed at planning but rather, we've consciously chosen to avoid any sort of planning at all across all sorts of things from how to collect tax through to how to keep the lights on. What we have now are the consequences of that failure - not a failure of planning but a failure to actually have any plan at all.


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## Smurf1976 (22 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Gough actually from memory brought in the single mother's pension then, before then when women got a black eye, they just had to turn the other cheek.



One of the better moves certainly.

Nobody should be forced to suffer physically due to economic circumstances leaving them trapped.


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## sptrawler (23 January 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> . As a country we haven't failed at planning but rather, we've consciously chosen to avoid any sort of planning at all across all sorts of things from how to collect tax through to how to keep the lights on. What we have now are the consequences of that failure - not a failure of planning but a failure to actually have any plan at all.



That pretty well sums it up smurf, the problem now is, as each Party tries to patch up the tax system, any changes are debated on social media so the plebs are much better informed.

Ten years ago, all the debating was done on the morning programmes by presenters on $500k a year, now that tripe is being challenged by people as happens on ASF.

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong, just saying no one is dies wondering, they get all sides of the arguments now, which IMO is great.


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## sptrawler (23 January 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> One of the better moves certainly.
> 
> Nobody should be forced to suffer physically due to economic circumstances leaving them trapped.



Yes I think that was the greatest thing Labour has achieved, I grew up in a violent family, Dad coming home from the pub and smashing everything including Mum, my brother and myself.
It wasn't fun and there wasn't any escape, a new Country, Mum and three kids no where to go.
The mid 1960's rent 10pound a week, dad earning 19pound a week, Mum getting two pound a week to feed us all and a thick ear if she couldn't do it.
Ah the good old days.


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## sptrawler (23 January 2020)

Why isn't Scomo onto this.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01...d-cross-for-bushfire-donation-delays/11890538
Not only is the Government slow to get the money out to the people, the charities are sitting on them also.


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## sptrawler (23 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Labor should know the answers by now after their "listening" trips, let's hope they learned their lesson, whatever that is.
> 
> The electorate is basically conservative and Labor doesn't get in without a charismatic leader who can demonstrate he/she is switched on to the modern thinking, and Bill wasn't it. Frankly I'm not sure Albo hits the spot either. Is there anyone else out there ? Not that I can see in the short term, but there are two and a bit years to go.



At least Albo doesn't lead with his chin and comes across as an honest genuine guy, that is a good start for labour. 
If Labour can stop pandering to their 'mates', I'm sure they will win the next election, Albo needs to ignore Combet and all the other hacks and just focus on a vision for Australia he will kill it. IMO


----------



## sptrawler (23 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Yes, very good points.
> 
> One wonders how the people who used to work in the car industry got on after it shut down.
> 
> ...



Those over 50 in the car manufacturing, as smurf said, would probably not get work without heading bush. Also as smurf said those who couldn't get work, would probably have trouble getting welfare with the redundancy and leave payouts. I was made redundant at 56, and due to joint replacements can't pass a medical, also not eligible for the pension untill 66 1/2 so two and a half years to go.lol
I have certainly changed my personal compass, one swipe of a pen can change your whole future, it didn't happen but it did show how easily it could happen.
So I go back to my old proverb, "allow for the worst, hope for the best". I spent 40 years of hard work getting to where I am, what it has shown me is not to be silly by taking 40 years getting rid of it.


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## Smurf1976 (23 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I was made redundant at 56, and due to joint replacements can't pass a medical, also not eligible for the pension untill 66 1/2 so two and a half years to go.lol



That's the classic scenario that's in the back of the mind of anyone with any sense. 

A point comes where the job you've got is the last one you'll get and should that end prior to your intended retirement date well then that's it, working is most likely over at that point and if you're under pension age then you'd better have some decent savings or investments otherwise you've got a problem.


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## SirRumpole (23 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I suppose the problem with that is, those on newstart or below the median wage, might not pay any tax any way, so reducing the tax is probably difficult.




OK, lets do it like franking credits, a cash refund of tax not paid.


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## chiff (23 January 2020)

On Morrison-the inquiry into McKenzie is being done by a person that he has the power to fire.What sort of credible result will we get from this?I see the labor party has come around to supporting an ICAC,lets hope the Centre Alliance reintroduce the bill.We can then see which members are in favour or not.Remember when Rinehart bribed Joyce with 40k...in a country with decent laws they both should have been led off in handcuffs.All Joyce had to do was pay the money back the next day.At least Dastyari bit the dust.
I believe Australia is a country where dishonesty is accepted in politics.


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## sptrawler (23 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> OK, lets do it like franking credits, a cash refund of tax not paid.



I think people are not thinking sensibly about the franking credit issue, which is exactly what Bill wanted and ultimately cost him his job.
If franking refunds is the big issue they made it out to be, they should have just stopped them, full stop. They were introduced 20 years ago, just say we are no longer refunding them at all.
To try and sell the fact that they are only unaffordable to SMSF's and low income earners was dumb.
Then add to that the fact they said, if you transfer your SMSF to an Industry super Fund, you can have your franking credits back.
It really didn't come over very well.
Like I said if they stopped the credits completely, we would be in surplus and have the debt paid off in a few years. Trusts instead of paying tax on 100's of millions of dollars pay nothing because the tax is washed with franking credits.
I don't mind losing them, because they don't make a lot for me, but I think that wasn't the driving initiative behind the changes and it was just a deplorable act.
Just my opinion.


----------



## SirRumpole (23 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I think people are not thinking sensibly about the franking credit issue, which is exactly what Bill wanted and ultimately cost him his job.
> If franking refunds is the big issue they made it out to be, they should have just stopped them, full stop. They were introduced 20 years ago, just say we are no longer refunding them at all.
> To try and sell the fact that they are only unaffordable to SMSF's and low income earners was dumb.
> Then add to that the fact they said, if you transfer your SMSF to an Industry super Fund, you can have your franking credits back.
> ...




Yes, I agree they should have stopped them totally.

Alternatively they could have said something like

"if you want to claim franking credits, show us on your Tax Return your total income including tax free super (which is not required to be declared at the moment) and if this income is less than the median wage you can keep the credits, otherwise they are reduced dollar for dollar by the amount your income exceeds the median wage".

That would not inconvenience low income people while clawing some money back from those who don't need the credits.


----------



## sptrawler (23 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Yes, I agree they should have stopped them totally.
> 
> Alternatively they could have said something like
> 
> ...



Yes there was a multitude of ways they could have addressed the issue, but I'm sure it was patched together to force SMSF money into the Industry Funds, because of pressure from their mates in the sector.
What made it obvious it was a hotch potch policy, was the fact they included those on welfare, then immediately it was brought to their attention they dropped them.
If it had been put through a rigorous process during development, that would have been highlighted in the early part, then that would highlight the disparity between those who are close to the pension cap getting a much better deal than those above it.
No it wasn't well thought out and it had holes blown through it, these days it has to be able to stand scrutiny, because with social media it is definitely going to get it.
They could have just said you can only claim $x of franking credits max, that's it everyone.


----------



## Smurf1976 (23 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> They could have just said you can only claim $x of franking credits max, that's it everyone.



Lots of ways it could have been done but ultimately any tax which in practice can be avoided simply by having a lot of money is never going to be acceptable to most.

It would be essentially the same argument if the states hiked car registration fees but gave an exemption for luxury vehicles using the argument that anyone with a new $100K car has already paid a lot of tax so we need to hit some old guy with a 22 year old Camry and make them pay more. It won’t fly no.


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## IFocus (23 January 2020)

Most of the guys I worked with were retiring self funded on super all poured money in when you could put in up to $100k per year and continued to pay in up to the before tax threshold.

60% would be hard Labour voters 

I am self funded combination of property / downsizing and super all planned out 30 years ago its not that hard to do would have retired earlier but had to put kids through uni just kept working for their security.

"Gutting TAFE as has been done is a disaster." I would say criminal larger companies were becoming more and more reluctant to take on apprentices and why would you with 457 visas of which both sides of politics guilty.


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## sptrawler (23 January 2020)

IFocus said:


> Most of the guys I worked with were retiring self funded on super all poured money in when you could put in up to $100k per year and continued to pay in up to the before tax threshold.
> 
> 60% would be hard Labour voters
> 
> ...



That pretty well sums up what I did, like you say if you start early enough it isn't hard.
What i'm finding now is a lot of my ex work mates, who just had a good time, are all looking around for someone to blame for the crap position they find themselves in.
Some who were sparkies, became supervisors and planners, now hitting retirement, are still renting and wondering where all their money went.
It amazes me how many people have the, "why worry I could be dead tomorrow" attitude when it come to saving.
A lot are going to be using a chunk of their super to pay off their mortgage, others are just going to have to rent and a few are well set up.


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## Humid (23 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I think people are not thinking sensibly about the franking credit issue, which is exactly what Bill wanted and ultimately cost him his job.
> If franking refunds is the big issue they made it out to be, they should have just stopped them, full stop. They were introduced 20 years ago, just say we are no longer refunding them at all.
> To try and sell the fact that they are only unaffordable to SMSF's and low income earners was dumb.
> Then add to that the fact they said, if you transfer your SMSF to an Industry super Fund, you can have your franking credits back.
> ...



Do you think Costello introduced it to get peeps out of union funds?


----------



## sptrawler (23 January 2020)

Humid said:


> Do you think Costello introduced it to get peeps out of union funds?



No, I think they actually were running quite a large surplus and at the time there were no obvious federal infra structure projects required, so they reduced personal tax rates and started the franking credit returns and the future fund.
Also at the time super was very early in its establishment and older workers had no time to build their balances, so a $1m one of was started so people could sell, down size and chuck the money in before they retired. I know one bloke who did it, I was actually out to dinner with him and his wife last night, they are in their mid 80's, and have enjoyed their retirement, still self funded.
The Industry funds were only just getting established back then, and SMSF's didn't really take off untill the early 2000's, most people like myself started them because of the collapse of a lot of investment companies in the 1987 crash and later.
I like others thought F*&k it I can loose it just as easy as them, at least it will be my fault, not because some bar%tard has done a shonky with my money. It was actually hard to run a small fund in the early days, it has become easier now with companies like esuper and other online super administrators.

In hindsight, if the CC initiative was full steam ahead, like it is now, the money would have probably been spent on infra structure instead of being given back to the taxpayers.
It would be great if we were in the same position now, no debt and running big surpluses, it will be a long time before we get back to that. IMO


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## Smurf1976 (23 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> What i'm finding now is a lot of my ex work mates, who just had a good time, are all looking around for someone to blame for the crap position they find themselves in.
> Some who were sparkies, became supervisors and planners, now hitting retirement, are still renting and wondering where all their money went.




I've seen people on $120K a year in 2020 $ (so adjusting for inflation using the RBA's online calculator since this was a few years ago) blow the lot and haven't got a cent to their name.

I've also seen people on half that income retire before age 60 completely self funded, no pension.

Certainly there are plenty who've suffered genuine misfortune and so on but there are also plenty who have had an abundance of opportunity they failed to take.


----------



## Smurf1976 (23 January 2020)

Humid said:


> Do you think Costello introduced it to get peeps out of union funds?



No - it offered no particular advantage by leaving a fund versus staying in it.


----------



## sptrawler (23 January 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> I've seen people on $120K a year in 2020 $ (so adjusting for inflation using the RBA's online calculator since this was a few years ago) blow the lot and haven't got a cent to their name.
> 
> I've also seen people on half that income retire before age 60 completely self funded, no pension.
> 
> Certainly there are plenty who've suffered genuine misfortune and so on but there are also plenty who have had an abundance of opportunity they failed to take.



Yes it really is just application, perserverance, sacrifice and self discipline.
As you say, how much you earn is actually a small part of the formulae, some great friends of ours worked two labouring jobs, ethnic backgrounds are retired in their early 60's and deserve everything they've got. Terrific people.


----------



## IFocus (23 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> That pretty well sums up what I did, like you say if you start early enough it isn't hard.
> What i'm finding now is a lot of my ex work mates, who just had a good time, are all looking around for someone to blame for the crap position they find themselves in.
> Some who were sparkies, became supervisors and planners, now hitting retirement, are still renting and wondering where all their money went.
> It amazes me how many people have the, "why worry I could be dead tomorrow" attitude when it come to saving.
> A lot are going to be using a chunk of their super to pay off their mortgage, others are just going to have to rent and a few are well set up.




I have had the "how lucky I am" but its just been how hard my wife and I have worked and not spent money on shiny objects (luck is always a factor in reality like being born in Australia) still we are all different and that's not always a bad thing


----------



## chiff (24 January 2020)

We had a tradesman come and put a new room on our house a few weeks ago.He was angry with his situation...His Scottish wife had taken the two kids back to her roots in Scotland-got a divorce-got half of everything ,house etc,and now was after his super.
People are caught up in all sorts of circumstances,illness  etc.I would never pass judgement on people not saving for their retirement.We are not all the recipient of halcyon circumstances.


----------



## chiff (24 January 2020)

Just thought of other ones I now of ..Drug dependent children bleeding their parents and the parents having to go through expensive litigation to save their grandchildren.These conversations remind of coming off at the end of a football game and one player saying to the team..I worked harder than you mob today.Probably not a good analogy but all I could think of at short notice.


----------



## greggles (24 January 2020)

chiff said:


> We had a tradesman come and put a new room on our house a few weeks ago.He was angry with his situation...His Scottish wife had taken the two kids back to her roots in Scotland-got a divorce-got half of everything ,house etc,and now was after his super.
> People are caught up in all sorts of circumstances,illness  etc.I would never pass judgement on people not saving for their retirement.We are not all the recipient of halcyon circumstances.




Exactly. And what about the old people caught up in corporate collapses like Storm Financial and Equititrust who see their retirement funds disappear in a puff of smoke? The government won't hold corporate grubs to account, so as far as I'm concerned it's their responsibility to clean up the mess and make sure these unfortunate old people can put a roof over their heads and food in their mouths.

Everyone has different circumstances and we shouldn't take a blanket approach to anything.

Two quotes come to mind:

"Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes." and "The greatness of a nation can be judged by how it treats its weakest members."


----------



## Humid (24 January 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> No - it offered no particular advantage by leaving a fund versus staying in it.




I would of thought with all the pi$$ &vinegar I read in here when the threat of losing them


----------



## Smurf1976 (24 January 2020)

chiff said:


> People are caught up in all sorts of circumstances,illness etc.I would never pass judgement on people not saving for their retirement.We are not all the recipient of halcyon circumstances.



Agreed definitely.

Where the point came from in the context of this thread though is whether those who do have the opportunity and actually take it should be effectively punished for doing so?

Or should those who have the opportunity and take it pay the same rates of tax on their income as anyone else with the same level of income?

Put a special high tax on something, anything, and it has the effect of discouraging that product or activity. Hence “sin” taxes and hence the argument about taxing pollution.

I can see valid reasons to discourage things like tobacco but I’ve yet to see a rational argument as to why someone investing and avoiding welfare is a bad thing which ought to be discouraged indeed the reverse is true, for each individual who self funds everyone else benefits via the saving of a considerable sum of taxpayers’ money.

If the argument is that I should not invest now, thus paying less tax, and should receive welfare if unemployed or when retired well then that’s no great loss to me personally. It is however a financial loss to everyone else who’ll be paying for it.


----------



## sptrawler (24 January 2020)

Humid said:


> I would of thought with all the pi$$ &vinegar I read in here when the threat of losing them



The Industry funds are very good, as has been shown by their results and the way they have come out clean through several investigations. If I was closing down my SMSF I wouldn't hesitate to go to an Industry Fund.
There has also been a lot of consolidation with funds, I know where I worked our super rolled over into Australian Super and I thought they were very good. I actually got my M.I.L to roll her super into Australian Super and over the last 10 years they have really looked after her, even though it was only in the cash fund.
What galled me about the franking credit issue was, I actually enjoy running my SMSF and investing, therefore I would like to continue to do so.
The problem was I would be left at a complete disadvantage to the Industry funds, as they would get the franking credits and I would lose them, this would leave me with very little option.
As I said if they take it off SMSF's, they should also take it off all the other funds, someone mentioned about the "aussie fair go", well that real spat in the face of a fair go.
I don't mind losing them, if every one else in the same boat does.


----------



## IFocus (24 January 2020)

chiff said:


> Just thought of other ones I now of ..Drug dependent children bleeding their parents and the parents having to go through expensive litigation to save their grandchildren.These conversations remind of coming off at the end of a football game and one player saying to the team..I worked harder than you mob today.Probably not a good analogy but all I could think of at short notice.




Neighbors who retired ended up in this exact situation with two grandkids youngest 3 years old result of a problem daughter at least the kids will get a good upbringing, but yes lots of circumstances where people don't get the opportunities to do what I have done.


----------



## macca (24 January 2020)

I think we all know someone who has saved it all, spent it all, hit a pothole, and anywhere in between.

I would think probably 10% of the population experience adversity, myself included, but fortunately it happened in my 30s so I had time to regroup.

At that age still fit and keen, found something and worked 80 hours a week if necessary until I was back on my feet.

A friend hit a rough spot too, unfortunately he was 64 when it happened, both still working at 68/70 just to pay off their mortgage while they can still work

The fickle finger of fate can be a nasty bast**d sometimes


----------



## sptrawler (24 January 2020)

Just reinforces the fact a person has to accumulate as early as possible, life, health,opportunity and recovery time all disappear.
It is something that is so hard to explain to young people. They think "here we go again" and you think jeez I wish I didn't sound like a dick.
All the old sayings are based on sound experience, yet no one applies them, nothing much changes.


----------



## SirRumpole (24 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Just reinforces the fact a person has to accumulate as early as possible, life, health,opportunity and recovery time all disappear.
> It is something that is so hard to explain to young people. They think "here we go again" and you think jeez I wish I didn't sound like a dick.
> All the old sayings are based on sound experience, yet no one applies them, nothing much changes.




I nominate VC to go on a lecture tour of schools and tell them how to do it. 

Seriously some life experience talks to the young 'uns from people like him and other members would be a good lesson.

There is a book there if you want to write it VC.


----------



## sptrawler (25 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> I nominate VC to go on a lecture tour of schools and tell them how to do it.
> 
> Seriously some life experience talks to the young 'uns from people like him and other members would be a good lesson.
> 
> There is a book there if you want to write it VC.



Well I did mention today, that the grandson could do worse than join the military, he is only 9 so she said where did that come from.


----------



## Smurf1976 (25 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Well I did mention today, that the grandson could do worse than join the military, he is only 9 so she said where did that come from.



9's a bit young for the Army I think.

Should be OK down the coal mines though.....


----------



## sptrawler (25 January 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> 9's a bit young for the Army I think.
> 
> Should be OK down the coal mines though.....



Yes well im thinking, he isnt doing that well with maths, so rather than defer to the, oh he will be a brain surgeon, im looking at plan b
My appologies for the text im using the phone, size 2 keys and size 10 fingers.
I will explain it bette r when I have a keyboard


----------



## orr (25 January 2020)

What? No one is going to say it?
What? No one is as in the filth as deep as Allan Jones?
Not even given the circumstances?
I wont say it . I just think it. Ohh Yes I think it. And would not be surprised by it being fact.
Congratulations to others for their restraint.


----------



## basilio (25 January 2020)

ScoMo is  in deep dooda with the Bridget McKenzie fiasco.  Every day it becomes clearer and clearer how  shonky were the processes for giving away public money to sports groups before the last election.

But where does ScoMo go. 

*Bridget McKenzie’s office told ‘not appropriate’ to approve sports grants after applications closed*
*Exclusive*: Sport Australia also found eight of nine did not meet ‘high merit’ criteria in some categories

Bridget McKenzie’s office approved nine sport grants after applications closed, something Sport Australia warned was unfair. It also found eight of nine did not demonstrate ‘high merit’. Photograph: Mick Tsikas/AAP
Sarah Martin
@msmarto
Published on Fri 24 Jan 2020 19.00 GMT

1,319
*Bridget McKenzie’s office approved nine sport grants in key seats that it asked Sport Australia to assess after applications closed, despite a warning from the agency that it was “not appropriate” to accept or fund the projects.*

The direct request from McKenzie’s office to Sport Australia under the controversial sport rorts affair asked it to consider nine new applications that had either been substantially amended or were new on March 20 – less than two months before the May election.
*
Four of the applications that came directly from the minister’s office came from proponents who had not submitted an application when the grants were open publicly in August and September 2018.*




Sports grants: Michael McCormack stands by Bridget McKenzie, saying she has done ‘outstanding job’
Read more
In response to the request from McKenzie’s office, Sport Australia warned that it was unfair for the applications to be considered, given it had refused similar requests from other MPs and sporting clubs after applications closed on 14 September 2018.

“No new applications have been accepted since this time and this has been communicated publicly – to the many MPs, sporting clubs and other organisations and individuals who have written expressly for the purpose of requesting the opportunity to apply,” a letter from Sport Australia to the minister’s office on March 22 said.

“Therefore it is not appropriate to invite or accept new applications at this time.”

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...prove-sports-grants-after-applications-closed


----------



## IFocus (25 January 2020)

basilio said:


> But where does ScoMo go.




Its gotten a lot messier than I expected particularly as its roping in others and Bridget's not walking so the pay off for her must be growing by the day.


----------



## Logique (26 January 2020)

Technically the PM can't sack her.  Only her National party leadership can. But she's on Michael McCormack's team, and he is very reluctant.

It's early in the term, wouldn't surprise if she hangs on.


----------



## SirRumpole (26 January 2020)

Logique said:


> Technically the PM can't sack her.  Only her National party leadership can. But she's on Michael McCormack's team, and he is very reluctant.
> 
> It's early in the term, wouldn't surprise if she hangs on.




The PM chooses the Ministry and he can sack her from that.


----------



## Logique (27 January 2020)

Coalition government. If the Minister & Nats Leader McCormack won't budge, the PM would be highly unlikely to force the issue.


----------



## chiff (27 January 2020)

Politics-where dishonesty is not necessarily of detriment to your salary.


----------



## wayneL (27 January 2020)

Sigh.... Still chuffed this mob is in instead of the other mob, but equally chuffed that I'd had no part in electing them!

Seriously unchuffed about the state of Oz politics though.


----------



## Smurf1976 (27 January 2020)

wayneL said:


> Seriously unchuffed about the state of Oz politics though



I think many voted for whoever they perceived as least bad rather than being able to choose someone they thought was actually good.


----------



## SirRumpole (27 January 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> I think many voted for whoever they perceived as least bad rather than being able to choose someone they thought was actually good.




I'm afraid it's been that way for a few decades at least.


----------



## Tink (28 January 2020)




----------



## basilio (28 January 2020)

Not bad when a sports club can get Local, State and Federal Governments grants  to fund the same project.  Highlights how out of control the Federal Gov sports grants were last year. This was pure politics.

Wonder who you have to xxxx for that deal ?  

* Sports grants: Brisbane football club given $150,000 for project that was already funded *
North Brisbane FC won grants from state, local and federal government for the same upgrade to its oval

Paul Karp and Amy Remeikis

Mon 27 Jan 2020 16.30 GMT   Last modified on Mon 27 Jan 2020 16.32 GMT

The North Brisbane football club received $150,000 through the controversial federal sports grants program despite already having won $138,000 from the Queensland government and a $110,000 grant from the Brisbane city council for the same field surface upgrade.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...en-150000-for-project-that-was-already-funded


----------



## basilio (28 January 2020)

It gets bleaker for Bridget McKenzie. Now there is story coming out from Sport Australia highlighting their *specific advice* to the Minister and noting how this was  ignored to support projects that were  in the political interest of the Lib/Nats.

Makes one wonder if the election results  could be called in question even this late in the day ? 

* Sport Australia warned Bridget McKenzie's grants program compromised its independence *
Sports grants were listed on a spreadsheet colour-coded according to which party held the seat the project was in, the ABC has reported

Paul Karp

Tue 28 Jan 2020 00.32 EST   First published on Tue 28 Jan 2020 00.14 EST

Shares
118
Bridget McKenzie has come under further pressure over the sports rorts affair, after the ABC published details of a leaked spreadsheet. Photograph: Mick Tsikas/AAP
Sports Australia reportedly raised concerns about the controversial $100m sports grant program, warning the Morrison government’s administration was compromising its independence.

In an explosive report, published on Tuesday, the ABC said Sports Australia executives complained about the program in March 2019, and revealed that the three lowest scored projects that nevertheless received funding were all in Coalition-held seats.

The report is based on a leaked spreadsheet containing the merit scores of projects in the community sport infrastructure grant program, colour-coded by which party held the seat in which they were located.
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...ts-australia-bridget-mckenzie-coalition-seats

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01...ained-pre-election-government-grants/11905250


----------



## Knobby22 (28 January 2020)

I like Bridget. Have heard her talk and she could have been the next National leader. Not now.

I heard the party asked her to send the money to marginal seats. She should have resisted.


----------



## SirRumpole (28 January 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> I like Bridget. Have heard her talk and she could have been the next National leader. Not now.
> 
> I heard the party asked her to send the money to marginal seats. She should have resisted.




Barnaby was quite likeable too.

Funny how the Nats always suffer from foot in mouth disease.


----------



## chiff (29 January 2020)

A few weeks ago I heard an interview with David Littleproud....at the end I was impressed by him..talking about water policy and answering questions.Littleproud and Darren Chester may be the future of the Nationals,one can see some common sense there.


----------



## sptrawler (29 January 2020)

Sounds like Morrison is starting to fight his way out of the corner, we will see how round two goes with the media, they came out with a flurry in round one and ScoMo hit the canvas but wasn't out for the count.
I think they may find he has more resilience, than the last few P.M's they knocked out.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01...-his-weaknesses-but-wont-give-ground/11909328


----------



## PZ99 (29 January 2020)

His hands are shaking


----------



## sptrawler (29 January 2020)

PZ99 said:


> His hands are shaking



Absolutely, his first taste of a media with blood lust happening, P.M flipping is bread and butter for the media.
Especially when the P.Min question, made them all look like dicks at the last election.
Rudd, Gillard, Abbott, they all copped it, Turnbull was a keeper because he was easy to push around.


----------



## SirRumpole (29 January 2020)

PZ99 said:


> His hands are shaking




His hands wouldn't be shaking if he wasn't trying to defend the indefensible.

Sports grants colour coded by who holds the seat is indefensible.

He can sack the Minister , but the Cabinet approved the grants so they'll all have to go.


----------



## Logique (30 January 2020)

It looks terminal now for Deputy Leader McKenzie.

Worse by the day, and increasingly obvious that some of the most deserving applications were bypassed for partisan political reasons. There must be accountability for this.  Volunteers put a lot of hours into compiling community grant applications.

Fall on your sword Deputy Leader.


----------



## Knobby22 (30 January 2020)

Yep, defense from Sky has stopped.


----------



## basilio (30 January 2020)

Logique said:


> It looks terminal now for Deputy Leader McKenzie.
> 
> Worse by the day, and increasingly obvious that some of the most deserving applications were bypassed for partisan political reasons. There must be accountability for this.  Volunteers put a lot of hours into compiling community grant applications.
> 
> Fall on your sword Deputy Leader.



*YOU MUST BE JOKING !!!!*

What the hell is wrong with just gritting your teeth and lying your way through the indefensible confident in the knowledge that

1) Other Ministers in this Government  have successfully done this
2) This is now the accepted political way of truth free politics
3) * Of course*  the Government uses public funds to sandbag elections. 
4)  "Democratic" Governments of a conscience free persuasion  are now allowed to do anything they want to achieve re election because their re election is in the interests of the country. ( Trump 2020 impeachment narrative)

But apart from all the current real politick arguments ,  I agree with your sentiments..


----------



## IFocus (30 January 2020)

McKenzie will likely be shot late Friday arvo, you know so every one will forget by Monday.

Love to be a fly on the wall as she reminds Morrison it was his staff that directed her choices so what he going to give her in return for her stepping down or will she save her parting shot for another day?


----------



## SirRumpole (30 January 2020)

IFocus said:


> McKenzie will likely be shot late Friday arvo, you know so every one will forget by Monday.
> 
> Love to be a fly on the wall as she reminds Morrison it was his staff that directed her choices so what he going to give her in return for her stepping down or will she save her parting shot for another day?




No doubt ScoMo will learn from Howard and bring her back at a later date in a probably elevated position.


----------



## SirRumpole (31 January 2020)

It only gets worse for McKenzie.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-31/nationals-big-winners-in-late-sports-grants/11918526


----------



## IFocus (1 February 2020)




----------



## sptrawler (1 February 2020)

Somebodys going to wear it.


----------



## Logique (1 February 2020)

It's getting ridiculous


> https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...-of-her-fate-on-saturday-20200131-p53wng.html Embattled Bridget McKenzie could learn of her fate on Saturday ; By Rob Harris, SMH 31 Jan 2020...The ABC reported on Friday several projects that received funding in a pre-election extension of the scandal-plagued scheme* had not even applied* when applications closed in September 2018.
> All nine of the last-minute projects were in Coalition seats or seats being targeted by the Nationals or Liberal Party.
> It also emerged on Tuesday that clubs missed out on money despite ranking far above the government agency's threshold to award cash for projects..


----------



## moXJO (1 February 2020)

Noticed they are trying to get the cashless welfare card introduced  nationally. Banks, woolies and Coles must be cheering.

Personally I've been sick of the authoritarianism and controlling aspect coming out of this government. There are multiple policies that are following a similar vein.

I want them gone and will commit to seeing them thrown out next election.


----------



## Smurf1976 (1 February 2020)

Let's see.....

We've had fires in every state with some of them seriously bad.

Flooding or hail storms affecting parts of Queensland, ACT, SA and I think Victoria (not sure on that last bit).

We've got major power transmission lines that are supposed to be standing up now lying on the ground in a twisted mess in Victoria, a not insignificant infrastructure problem.

We've got a political scandal over the seemingly simple task of how to allocate funding for sports facilities.

Oh, and a global pandemic.

All in just the past month.

I'm not blaming the government for all or even most of that but we most certainly need some leadership amidst the chaos.


----------



## sptrawler (1 February 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Let's see.....
> 
> We've had fires in every state with some of them seriously bad.
> 
> ...



If your worried smurf, its time for everyone to worry, maybe time for Albo to rise to the occassion.


----------



## Smurf1976 (1 February 2020)

sptrawler said:


> If your worried smurf, its time for everyone to worry, maybe time for Albo to rise to the occassion.



My concern is at least partly that if the average person looks around them then what they see is chaos.

Vast areas burnt, other places flooded, infrastructure problems, political scandals, multiple high profile businesses downsizing or outright closing, disease outbreaks, flights cancelled, people in quarantine......

It's not quite the apocalypse but I don't recall ever seeing this much drama in such a short space of time and if it doesn't result in consumers firmly closing their wallets and resultant economic fallout then I'll be stunned really.


----------



## SirRumpole (1 February 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Let's see.....
> 
> We've had fires in every state with some of them seriously bad.
> 
> ...




I've always thought that this government will just be papering over the cracks instead of repairing the structure and nothing I've seen so far has changed my mind.

Like most conservative governments, everything is ok to them as long as they are in power and their mates keep the donations rolling in. What we need now are a few casual vacancies in marginal coalition held seats (resignations to spend more time with the family etc) and Labor party wins in those seats. Labor could be only a whisker away from government if things go right for them.


----------



## SirRumpole (2 February 2020)

She's gorn.

McKenzie has resigned from Cabinet and the Nats Deputy leadership , but only over her gun club membership not the sports grants rort.

SloMo has his convenient scapegoat.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02...ts-over-ministerial-standards-breach/11896610


----------



## sptrawler (2 February 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> She's gorn.
> 
> McKenzie has resigned from Cabinet and the Nats Deputy leadership , but only over her gun club membership not the sports grants rort.
> 
> ...



Yet to see any poltician admit to rorting, lol, where would that lead.


----------



## IFocus (2 February 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Vast areas burnt, other places flooded, infrastructure problems, political scandals, multiple high profile businesses downsizing or outright closing, disease outbreaks, flights cancelled, people in quarantine......
> 
> It's not quite the apocalypse





Afraid it is pic of  north of Buchan in East Gippsland on "Wombargo Track looking towards Cobberas".


----------



## IFocus (2 February 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> She's gorn.
> 
> McKenzie has resigned from Cabinet and the Nats Deputy leadership , but only over her gun club membership not the sports grants rort.
> 
> ...




Yes and apparently the report stated no problems with the money allocation.......maybe because it was run from the PMs office and cabinet, nasty business this politics.

Some how I dont think its over given the leaks have come from inside the Coalition so far.


----------



## sptrawler (2 February 2020)

IFocus said:


> Afraid it is pic of  north of Buchan in East Gippsland on "Wombargo Track looking towards Cobberas".
> 
> View attachment 100076



That is a hot burn, pretty amazing stuff.


----------



## sptrawler (3 February 2020)

Looks like Scomo is a goner.
https://www.theage.com.au/politics/...ponse-to-bushfire-crisis-20200202-p53wy9.html
From the article:
_Voters have turned on Prime Minister Scott Morrison over his response to the summer bushfires in a sign he could be “irretrievably damaged” by a series of stumbles, including his decision to take a holiday in Hawaii.

Angry at a “pathetic” and “disorganised” response to the crisis, voters blamed Mr Morrison for being too slow to act on the threat and failing to show empathy with Australians suffering in the aftermath of the fires.
But some believe Mr Morrison can recover from the crisis if he “sticks to his policies” over the years ahead, showing he has continued support from those who backed the Coalition government at the last election.

The findings, based on focus groups run by research company Ipsos for The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age, also revealed majority support for greater action on climate change despite doubts about putting a price on carbon_.

The polls don't lie.


----------



## Smurf1976 (3 February 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> My concern is at least partly that if the average person looks around them then what they see is chaos.



I'd forgotten to add cracking and flammable buildings to the list.

It seems that rather a lot of chickens are coming home to roost so far as the consequence of neglecting technical* things are concerned.

*Technical as in anything practical - building, medical, environmental, anything that isn't paper shuffling and rear end covering. Basically all those things which governments used to do until they decided it was too hard.


----------



## SirRumpole (3 February 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> I'd forgotten to add cracking and flammable buildings to the list.




Dams that leak under normal operation.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12...d-put-100-lives-at-risk-review-finds/11822860


----------



## sptrawler (3 February 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> I'd forgotten to add cracking and flammable buildings to the list.
> 
> It seems that rather a lot of chickens are coming home to roost so far as the consequence of neglecting technical* things are concerned.
> 
> *Technical as in anything practical - building, medical, environmental, anything that isn't paper shuffling and rear end covering. Basically all those things which governments used to do until they decided it was too hard.



It goes right through society ATM, I know of a local company that bought trailers and a new rear for a compacting truck everything had to be sent away for remedial strengthening.
Do things still have to go through any sort of engineering certification these days?


----------



## SirRumpole (3 February 2020)

Sports stadiums that have to be rebuilt after 20 years.

This is ridiculous and shows how shoddy the original design and construction was that is now costing us billions.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11...olympic-stadium-is-being-knocked-down/9187608


----------



## IFocus (3 February 2020)

sptrawler said:


> That is a hot burn, pretty amazing stuff.




Its just a disturbing terrible picture.


----------



## sptrawler (3 February 2020)

IFocus said:


> Its just a disturbing terrible picture.



Yes it looks like the burn that happend on the Great Eastern Highway between Souther Cross and Bulla Bulling, a few years ago, that burnt the truckies to death.
Just a wasteland with matchsticks, the heat must be phenominal.


----------



## qldfrog (3 February 2020)

On


sptrawler said:


> Yes it looks like the burn that happend on the Great Eastern Highway between Souther Cross and Bulla Bulling, a few years ago, that burnt the truckies to death.
> Just a wasteland with matchsticks, the heat must be phenominal.



E good thing is the virus responses which matches the medical advices plus probably intelligence gathered
Our leftists are not playing the offended by racism too much, probably as their NZ diva did implement the same measures within hours.
Trying to find some positive.....


----------



## Smurf1976 (3 February 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Dams that leak under normal operation.




It just annoys me things like this.

We used to be world leaders in dams and various other technical and engineering things. Plenty of "world first" things were done with dams in Tasmania and other states last century. Same in many other fields from medicine to chemicals, we used to be leaders.

Now it seems that all the competent and able people have their hands tied, watching in dismay as fools run the country.


----------



## Humid (4 February 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> It just annoys me things like this.
> 
> We used to be world leaders in dams and various other technical and engineering things. Plenty of "world first" things were done with dams in Tasmania and other states last century. Same in many other fields from medicine to chemicals, we used to be leaders.
> 
> Now it seems that all the competent and able people have their hands tied, watching in dismay as fools run the country.




The decline in unions don’t help
People speak up on union jobs wth less fear of being punished 
Imported tradies with big mortgages tend to tow the line.....so do locals


----------



## orr (4 February 2020)

It's rumoured that Schmo has an irate dislike of the 'Betoota Advocates' anointed 'nomenclature' (thanks Peta) of '*Scotty from marketing*' ... surely not ..
How could one be so thin skinned?.... tis only light satire.
Any mention of this pifferling ruse '*Scotty from Marketing*' in the 'Murde'dock rags? with due irony?(of corse).
 This would put paid to any lurking doubts as too it's hurtful and deceptive intent in the 'good and quiet' voting publics perception. 
But what if not? ...( _put finger tip betweeen teeth and bite gently)_ 
My entreaty to avid readers of all things News Corpse... Please tell !!!

But why do I think I know the answer already...


----------



## basilio (4 February 2020)

The challenges of Scotty from Marketing... Herding a bunch of ornery alley cats who don't believe in evidence.

*Coalition MPs clash over climate policy in first party room meeting of 2020*
Scott Morrison faces difficult task of repositioning on climate change after assuring voters policies would ‘evolve’
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...ate-policy-in-first-partyroom-meeting-of-2020


----------



## SirRumpole (4 February 2020)

basilio said:


> The challenges of Scotty from Marketing... Herding a bunch of ornery alley cats who don't believe in evidence.
> 
> *Coalition MPs clash over climate policy in first party room meeting of 2020*
> Scott Morrison faces difficult task of repositioning on climate change after assuring voters policies would ‘evolve’
> https://www.theguardian.com/austral...ate-policy-in-first-partyroom-meeting-of-2020




Interesting to get such a detailed report of what went on in a normally closed party room.

Looks like a lot of leaks going on there.


----------



## sptrawler (4 February 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Interesting to get such a detailed report of what went on in a normally closed party room.
> 
> Looks like a lot of leaks going on there.



It sounds as though Rob was at the meeting.


----------



## Humid (7 February 2020)

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/national/2020/02/06/barnaby-joyce-warns-pm-rebel-nationals/

What a circus you have elected
Before you even think it

“Still better than the other lot”
Lol


----------



## IFocus (7 February 2020)

Humid said:


> https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/national/2020/02/06/barnaby-joyce-warns-pm-rebel-nationals/
> 
> What a circus you have elected
> Before you even think it
> ...




Yep better and also higher integrity / honesty / fairness and they handle our money better to get re-elected............how good is Australia

Getting hard to believe this mob are so blatant another $150 mil thrown at the election

*Government's $150 million female sports program funnelled into swimming pools for marginal Coalition seats*

Key points:

The PM announced a $150m fund for female change rooms and swimming pools on the eve of the election
Guidelines were promised but never published and the scheme was never open for applications
Two Liberal-held seats received 40 per cent of the funding



*https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-07/government-cash-splash-swimming-pools/11924850*


----------



## Humid (7 February 2020)

IFocus said:


> Yep better and also higher integrity / honesty / fairness and they handle our money better to get re-elected............how good is Australia
> 
> Getting hard to believe this mob are so blatant another $150 mil thrown at the election
> 
> ...




If it was Labor the server for this forum would be melting

Starting to make sense why the polls got it so wrong
Voter backlash from franking credits my arse
Boomers thinking they were still relevant
Lol


----------



## Logique (8 February 2020)

Labor's franking policy was an attempted retiree tax, pure and simple. The ALP thought retirees were a soft touch.  

Take a look at voter demographics before you decide Boomers are politically irrelevant


----------



## moXJO (8 February 2020)

Humid said:


> If it was Labor the server for this forum would be melting
> 
> Starting to make sense why the polls got it so wrong
> Voter backlash from franking credits my arse
> ...



Labor needs to work out what it is before anyone is going to vote for them. Their last effort was a sht show.


----------



## moXJO (8 February 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Sports stadiums that have to be rebuilt after 20 years.
> 
> This is ridiculous and shows how shoddy the original design and construction was that is now costing us billions.
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11...olympic-stadium-is-being-knocked-down/9187608



The colourbond sheeting might be looking a bit tatty, 20 something years is close to the warranty. I remember when they built it and they were going flat stick. Tradies were at a shortage as I think the large Sydney hailstorm went through. It was a golden time to be a tradie.




Humid said:


> The decline in unions don’t help
> People speak up on union jobs wth less fear of being punished
> Imported tradies with big mortgages tend to tow the line.....so do locals




It was mainly knowledge. Architects would completely stuff up designs or leave out critical factors. I was constantly picking up design flaws. Tradies have to follow the plan or risk not getting paid, or be liable. It's also not the tradies job to engineer designs. Every tradie that knows their job speaks up. And it was the union jobs where I found you towed the line. Union jobs problems are often only found after it's too late and it takes a few extra weeks/months to rectify.

It was a headache when a problem was found and a  lot would just attempt a cover over instead of a serious amendment.

Tradies always get the blame but they are often at the mercy of site managers, or office jockeys.
Being rushed, not getting paid, bad plans, time constraints and often at tight margins. The main building company makes the bulk. Everyone else gets set rates


----------



## Humid (8 February 2020)

Logique said:


> Labor's franking policy was an attempted retiree tax, pure and simple. The ALP thought retirees were a soft touch.
> 
> Take a look at voter demographics before you decide Boomers are politically irrelevant



Retirees is a bit rich
I'd settle for retiree with SMSF who pays no tax demographic


----------



## Humid (8 February 2020)

moXJO said:


> Labor needs to work out what it is before anyone is going to vote for them. Their last effort was a sht show.



Shorten was from the grubbiest union 
Glad he's not PM


----------



## moXJO (8 February 2020)

Humid said:


> Shorten was from the grubbiest union
> Glad he's not PM



If they stop trying to be the "everything to everyone" party and get back to basics, they will have a much clearer message. 
Democrats in the US are making the same mistake. They need to stop pandering to fringe messages and govern on real issues for the average Australian.

For the libs to get back in,  should of been a large wakeup call. Libs bloody sucked last term and not much has changed so far.


----------



## Smurf1976 (8 February 2020)

Humid said:


> Retirees is a bit rich
> I'd settle for retiree with SMSF who pays no tax demographic



It was far broader than just those with an SMSF.

It was basically aimed at anyone not working and not claiming welfare.


----------



## Smurf1976 (8 February 2020)

moXJO said:


> Labor needs to work out what it is before anyone is going to vote for them. Their last effort was a sht show.



And be consistent about it.

Arguing about the “top end of town” is one thing and may well have some merit.

Where it fails is when the definition of that in practice includes posties, truck drivers and electricians but doesn’t include CEO’s and billionaires.

It’s the sort of logic which sees someone finding Sydney too cold in Winter. Sounds plausible until you find out they’ve fixed the problem by moving to Hobart. Um.......

We’re living in an era where if something doesn’t stack up then most won’t just go along with it. That goes for all sides of politics and most other things too.


----------



## Humid (8 February 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> It was far broader than just those with an SMSF.
> 
> It was basically aimed at anyone not working and not claiming welfare.




And you reckon they were Labor voters

Spare me


----------



## sptrawler (8 February 2020)

All I will say about Labours franking credit brain fart is, why would you take $7,000 off those who just does't qualify for a pension, yet give $ 50m of credits, to someone who does'nt pay tax through a trust?
Weird $hit, unless there is another agenda OMG, Labour wouldnt do that  they are the saviours.
Ra Ra Ra, untill it turns to $hit, then they are thrown out again.
Rinse, wash, repeat, then history repeats.
Trust us we have a great idea, but we will stuff it up.


----------



## Smurf1976 (8 February 2020)

Humid said:


> And you reckon they were Labor voters




They used to be back when Labor represented workers such as tradesmen, factory workers, labourers, mine site workers and so on.

Labor has lost that group to the point that it's not hard to find a 20-something year old tradesman who literally doesn't realise Labor is associated with the unions. I kid you not and I've heard it a few times now from people in that age group - "the unions ought to start a political party......".

What that age group associates Labor with is uni students, the arts and minority groups. Turn up at a mine, building site, heavy industry etc and mention politics and you'll find no real support for either side but a definite thinking that the Coalition is closer to being "their" party despite very obvious shortcomings.

The best thing that could happen for Australian politics, and for that matter probably for Australia more broadly, would be for Labor to reconnect with its roots and in doing so put real pressure on the Coalition. Do that and both will lift their standards out of necessity.


----------



## sptrawler (8 February 2020)

Really well put smurf, the problem is Labour are so out of touch, they dont see the problem and when you hear Labour supporters they have no idea what a blue collar worker is anymore, most would be better served voting the Greens.
At least they would get someone who more closely meets their beliefs.


----------



## Humid (8 February 2020)

We should start a Labor thread with a Liberal heading
We can complain about the opposition to take our minds off Scummo


----------



## sptrawler (9 February 2020)

Humid said:


> We should start a Labor thread with a Liberal heading
> We can complain about the opposition to take our minds off Scummo



You should start a Labor thread, it will be interesting to see what you write, should be a scintilating thread.


----------



## Smurf1976 (9 February 2020)

Humid said:


> We should start a Labor thread with a Liberal heading
> We can complain about the opposition to take our minds off Scummo



I think it comes down to the reality that the only reason ScoMo's the PM is because of Labor. It wasn't so much that the Coalition won the election but that Labor lost it hence the focus which isn't unique to this thread or forum.

It's a situation akin to saying that some 75 year old won the running race not because they're any good at running but because they were the only one who turned up in sports shoes and actually ran toward the finish line.


----------



## Humid (9 February 2020)

sptrawler said:


> You should start a Labor thread, it will be interesting to see what you write, should be a scintilating thread.




Well it wouldn’t take much for you and your audience of 2 to keep entertained


----------



## sptrawler (9 February 2020)

Humid said:


> Well it wouldn’t take much for you and your audience of 2 to keep entertained



Well you keep trolling me, so we might as well call it 3.


----------



## Humid (9 February 2020)

https://www.michaelwest.com.au/ambassador-richard-court-stoked-to-be-in-the-land-of-the-rising-sun/

It just never ends


----------



## sptrawler (9 February 2020)

Humid said:


> https://www.michaelwest.com.au/ambassador-richard-court-stoked-to-be-in-the-land-of-the-rising-sun/
> 
> It just never ends



It is good to see in the article Allan Carpenter, is doing o.k in the corporate world, I wondered what happened to him after he left politics.


----------



## IFocus (9 February 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> I think it comes down to the reality that the only reason ScoMo's the PM is because of Labor. It wasn't so much that the Coalition won the election but that Labor lost it hence the focus which isn't unique to this thread or forum.
> 
> It's a situation akin to saying that some 75 year old won the running race not because they're any good at running but because they were the only one who turned up in sports shoes and actually ran toward the finish line.




Ture Labor maybe loss the unloseable but looking at $250 mil of pork maybe one of the reasons the polls got it so wrong!

I wonder?


----------



## Humid (9 February 2020)

sptrawler said:


> It is good to see in the article Allan Carpenter, is doing o.k in the corporate world, I wondered what happened to him after he left politics.




Good to see you kept your focus on the minute Labor content 
Hook line and sinker


----------



## sptrawler (9 February 2020)

Humid said:


> Good to see you kept your focus on the minute Labor content
> Hook line and sinker



Yes nothing like a well researched article, well done, threw the hook.


----------



## Logique (10 February 2020)

Humid said:


> We should start a Labor thread with a Liberal heading
> We can complain about the opposition to take our minds off Scummo





Humid said:


> Well it wouldn’t take much for you and your audience of 2 to keep entertained



We've just had the Franking Credit and Climate Change Election Humid. A few more than 2 I'd say


----------



## Humid (10 February 2020)

Logique said:


> We've just had the Franking Credit and Climate Change Election Humid. A few more than 2 I'd say




I think the next one will be climate change


----------



## macca (10 February 2020)

Humid said:


> I think the next one will be climate change




If that is true then the Libs will win again, the last two were about climate change, Libs won both.

Joe Public are so sick of the hysteria that they have switched off, they go to work, they go to the pub, they enjoy themselves...................


----------



## sptrawler (10 February 2020)

Humid said:


> I think the next one will be climate change



I think there will be some interesting things happen between now and the run up to the next election, I have been posting a few articles and my impression is the Government is doing a lot more than people realise.
The media is making a big song and dance about the lack of action on climate change, so it will be very easy for the Government to just roll out the results when it is required, no point in shooting all your ammo before the opposition are in range. IMO
The media is setting itself up to actually help the coalition IMO, because they are constantly crying wolf, my call is they will end up with egg on their faces.
Time will tell.


----------



## chiff (10 February 2020)

macca said:


> If that is true then the Libs will win again, the last two were about climate change, Libs won both.
> 
> Joe Public are so sick of the hysteria that they have switched off, they go to work, they go to the pub, they enjoy themselves...................



Well Clinton had a sign in his office to remind him "it's the economy stupid"


----------



## sptrawler (10 February 2020)

Looks as though the Federal Government will aim for the zero emissions by 2050.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...o-glasgow-climate-summit-20200209-p53z4b.html
From the article:

_Australia will take a new long-term emissions reduction target to November's UN climate summit, as the Morrison government weighs up whether to join more than 80 countries to commit to net zero carbon emissions by 2050_.
_Mr Taylor said on Sunday the government believed the answer was not a new tax or more bureaucracy but "practical change" driven by science and technology.

"The pathway to meaningful impacts on global emissions is through development and deployment of new technologies," Mr Taylor said.

"That is where Australia can have the biggest impact on reducing global emissions."

He confirmed the government expected to deliver a long-term emissions reduction strategy before the Glasgow summit_.

_When asked directly about the 2050 target, Mr Morrison said he would "never make a commitment like that if I couldn’t tell the Australian people what it would cost them”.


Mr Taylor and Mr Morrison have continued to declare Australia would "meet and beat" its 2030 Paris targets of reducing emissions by between 26 to 28 per cent on 2005 levels, potentially without using Kyoto carryover credits_.

_The government is also close to finalising its draft Technology Investment Roadmap, which it says will set a framework for investment priorities in emissions-reducing technologies over the short term (to 2022), medium term (to 2030) and long term (to 2050)_.


----------



## Humid (10 February 2020)

macca said:


> If that is true then the Libs will win again, the last two were about climate change, Libs won both.
> 
> Joe Public are so sick of the hysteria that they have switched off, they go to work, they go to the pub, they enjoy themselves...................




And then there were a couple of fires


----------



## macca (10 February 2020)

Humid said:


> And then there were a couple of fires




In places where the locals have been screaming for years,
"burn the bloody stuff off in winter"
"we told you this would happen"
"city bound know it all, know nothings caused this and people and millions of animals died on the altar of their green ideology"

Exactly what I said before, Joe Public know that all this hysteria is coming from those safe in the city in their little first world echo chamber.

Meanwhile the lifters go to work to pay their bills, they don't have time to glue themselves to the road or stop other people earning a living


----------



## Humid (10 February 2020)

macca said:


> In places where the locals have been screaming for years,
> "burn the bloody stuff off in winter"
> "we told you this would happen"
> "city bound know it all, know nothings caused this and people and millions of animals died on the altar of their green ideology"
> ...




That depends on where you get your news from
Would you like to divulge your source

I’ve read arguments from both sides of the fires
Nothing personal but quoting Macca from Aussie stock forums probably won’t cut the mustard in my group of friends


----------



## macca (10 February 2020)

Humid said:


> That depends on where you get your news from
> Would you like to divulge your source
> 
> I’ve read arguments from both sides of the fires
> Nothing personal but quoting Macca from Aussie stock forums probably won’t cut the mustard in my group of friends




You need to get out of the echo chamber,

sources are the TV news, the newspapers, online, RFS members, NSW full time firies, all saying the same damn thing as the last 50 government enquiries in every state that has had bad fires.

We live next door to 20 acres of bush, it has not been burnt for 35 years, the owners have been trying to burn/slash/clear for the past 10 years but the council won't let them.

We had an arsonist light it over Xmas, while the firies were here we told them of the  problem and they said we know all about it, it is very hard to get permission.

The very minimum hazard reduction required is 10% per annum, 20% near populated areas is desirable (and sensible)

To have a bad fire we need three things, heat, wind and fuel, we cannot control the first two but we can have a huge amount of control over the last one.

Cold burns in winter are easily controlled, create a safety buffer should we have a summer fire in the unburnt sections and protect our wildlife from the holocausts that happened this summer.

The aboriginals have lived here for 50,000 years without helicopters, water bombers, fire trucks etc etc, the Only way they survived was to create safety areas by burning in a patchwork fashion throughout their tribal area. 

One tribal elder told me that around here they used to burn three times a year, wind dependent, to the lake, to the ocean and to the river, approx 200 people lived here so they had to monitor it closely

As every enquiry has said, we must do the same, this bloke explains it well

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/fires-not-due-to-climate-change-expert


----------



## chiff (11 February 2020)

macca said:


> You need to get out of the echo chamber,
> 
> sources are the TV news, the newspapers, online, RFS members, NSW full time firies, all saying the same damn thing as the last 50 government enquiries in every state that has had bad fires.
> 
> ...



I read yesterday that one thing that the aboriginals did not do was to live in the forests during summer ....Europeans are not that smart!


----------



## IFocus (11 February 2020)

Hopefully there will be an RC with a wide enough scope to examine all the issues.

Reducing the argument to fuel reduction won't solve the problem long term and I suspect it won't be in the top 3, it is a factor and a big one worthy of close examination / plus requires flexibility in decision making that currently does not appear to be the case.

But unfortunately quickly loses importance in 40 degree plus heat and high winds, this is the future unfortunately.

It has been a handy diversion for politics along with arson which was responsible for 8% of the burnt areas.

Things have changed dramatically from 50,000 years ago.

Higher populations live in the bush a dramatic change just in the last 20 to 30 years alone with little or no changes in building standards, fire protection systems and independent water and power supplies.

Haven't seen one house burnt down that had a roof sprinkler system and the ones that did were connected to scheme water which fail as soon as the power goes off.

Here in WA had a drive through the Parkerville / Stoneville areas where catastrophic fires shedded the communities. Houses have been rebuilt in the exactly same spots with in the same jarrah forested areas but now a whole lot drier ready to go boom again.

This just doesn't work.

Please note a 50 meter clearance around your home in low density fuel areas wont save your home or lives, plenty of footage both Eastern States and WA showing houses burning with bugger all trees, scrub around. If you have a forest alongside you or trees within 30 meters that can flare into your house then you have no hope.

The Eastern States have experienced drier conditions and lower humidity levels similar to what's been happening in WA for the last 30 years.

When rain forest, swamp lands and marshes burn then I suspect there isn't a whole lot you can do other than restrict building or living in fire risk areas.

I think longer term insurance costs will decide where people build homes.

To be honest I think losing the environment longer term the one that supports food production and the like is a bigger problem that's before you get to extinction of animal species.


----------



## IFocus (12 February 2020)

How much to buy a miracle election

*Coalition’s “miracle” election win claim under fire as more rorts surface*

The Coalition’s claimed “miracle” election win is looking decidedly hollow as more rorts surface in the media. Senator Bridget McKenzie took one for the team over the #sportsrorts and resigned her ministry. Jommy Tee uncovers yet another whopper — the Regional Growth Fund.


*https://www.michaelwest.com.au/coal...-surface/?mc_cid=36a55a1ba6&mc_eid=7935c92ad0*


----------



## PZ99 (12 February 2020)

Maybe the polls were right after all


----------



## qldfrog (12 February 2020)

Humid said:


> That depends on where you get your news from
> Would you like to divulge your source
> 
> I’ve read arguments from both sides of the fires
> Nothing personal but quoting Macca from Aussie stock forums probably won’t cut the mustard in my group of friends



What about sources like: where I live? outside the CBD and suburbia, the places which do actually burn?
you know, not their ABC or the latest Green pamphlet...


----------



## sptrawler (12 February 2020)

PZ99 said:


> Maybe the polls were right after all



We will definitely find out next election.


----------



## SirRumpole (12 February 2020)

sptrawler said:


> We will definitely find out next election.




Have you noticed that any mention of polls has been absent from the media recently ?

At least in the media I read.


----------



## sptrawler (12 February 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Have you noticed that any mention of polls has been absent from the media recently ?
> 
> At least in the media I read.



That's true, now they just make statements like "large numbers think", a large group of protesters etc, maybe they are thinking they turned the electorate by over doing the polls?
I think Labor are being very smart keeping their heads down, the Coalition are getting plenty of flack, without Labor getting involved.
It makes a change from the past where every politician wanted to be a film star, so they would take any opportunity to get in front of a camera or microphone, then usually make absolute dicks of themselves.
 I'm impressed with Albo up to now, we will have to see how he performs, closer to the election.


----------



## SirRumpole (12 February 2020)

sptrawler said:


> That's true, now they just make statements like "large numbers think", a large group of protesters etc, maybe they are thinking they turned the electorate by over doing the polls?
> I think Labor are being very smart keeping their heads down, the Coalition are getting plenty of flack, without Labor getting involved.
> It makes a change from the past where every politician wanted to be a film star, so they would take any opportunity to get in front of a camera or microphone, then usually make absolute dicks of themselves.
> I'm impressed with Albo up to now, we will have to see how he performs, closer to the election.





I think the polling companies themselves are keeping their heads down and are trying to figure out how they screwed up so badly. Or maybe they didn't and people just changed their minds on the day. I would not like to be Ipsos or Roy Morgan trying to work out that one out.


----------



## Humid (12 February 2020)

qldfrog said:


> What about sources like: where I live? outside the CBD and suburbia, the places which do actually burn?
> you know, not their ABC or the latest Green pamphlet...




https://www.smh.com.au/national/thi...about-the-nsw-mega-fires-20191110-p5395e.html

So is this bloke credible?


----------



## Smurf1976 (12 February 2020)

macca said:


> Joe Public are so sick of the hysteria that they have switched off, they go to work, they go to the pub, they enjoy themselves...................




As someone who's long been involved with the issue, I find it somewhat amazing that we've had the subject of how to generate electricity and the related subject of emissions and climate change as a consistent theme dominating politics for over a decade which has played a significant role in the downfall of multiple PM's and yet the average person would still struggle to explain the issues in a factual, politically neutral manner.

I could go to the mall or most central train station in any capital city tomorrow and ask random members of the public a few questions about it. Just simple stuff like what % of Australia's energy comes from coal or even really basic stuff like which states produce what forms of energy. Reality is that a lot are going to struggle to come anywhere close to giving a factually correct answer.

That's not me putting myself or anyone else on a pedestal, there are plenty of subjects which I know absolutely nothing about, but given this one's been such a dominant theme of political debate for such an extended period it really hasn't achieved much.

At least during previous tense political debate, for example the first time the GST was proposed was one such example or for a more directly related one the great dams debate in Tasmania 40 years ago or the various debates about uranium mining, most people could at least state the facts of what was being argued about regardless of which side they were on.

I find it simply bizarre really. An issue that's been around for over a decade almost constantly, which has played at least some role in the demise of 4 Prime Ministers and yet the average person seems to struggle to get their mind around it at even a very basic level.


----------



## sptrawler (12 February 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> .
> I find it simply bizarre really. An issue that's been around for over a decade almost constantly, which has played at least some role in the demise of 4 Prime Ministers and yet the average person seems to struggle to get their mind around it at even a very basic level.



I think it is due to the fact the media don't want the debate to be factual, it is much easier to drive the agenda and keep the issue percolating, if the general public is kept in the dark it is easy headlines.
It would be quite simple to explain the issue in laymans terms, but then how would the media whip up the emotion, when in reality it is a time based issue that will be worked through.
It sounds as though there are quite a few groups looking at the long term issues, maybe when it is released, the media will have to direct their reporting more to the crux of the issue, rather than generalised innuendo and posturing.


----------



## SirRumpole (12 February 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> I find it simply bizarre really. An issue that's been around for over a decade almost constantly, which has played at least some role in the demise of 4 Prime Ministers and yet the average person seems to struggle to get their mind around it at even a very basic level.




Trouble is the only people you really hear talking about this stuff is politicians and they themselves know diddly squat about the real issues ;ie the technical feasibility of their blue sky dreams that they come up with which in a lot of cases are impractical, too expensive or just won't work.

Alan Finkel gave a good speech on this today at the Press Club (dumbed down quite a bit as he was talking to journalists after all), but very few people other than journos would get to see it unless they are really keen on the subject.

So the great Australian public are generally being so bamboozled by political bs that they have  given up , and they just pray that someone, somehow will get it right in the end.


----------



## macca (12 February 2020)

Humid said:


> https://www.smh.com.au/national/thi...about-the-nsw-mega-fires-20191110-p5395e.html
> 
> So is this bloke credible?




I seem to recall that this bloke was part of the Koperberg empire, he has been indoctrinated with the current vogue rather than learn from the past.

When Mr Koperberg started the RFS he centralised all the power by removing authority from the local captains and brigades to conduct burns when the opportunity arises.

This resulted in dozens of senior firies resigning, decades of experience in local conditions walked out the door because they were regarded as has beens.

Local captains know their local flora, they know the hot spots, they know where the natural fire breaks are, they know which neighbours will help, who has bulldozers, which pub to ring to round up a crew etc

I have seen interviews with Shane Fitzsimmons he seems a very well intentioned person but he is part of the new era that rely heavily on big budget fire fighting.

They were very confident that with all their very expensive, new fangled equipment they could stop nature whenever they wanted, pure arrogance !

Unfortunately, nature demonstrated once again just who is boss and people, flora and fauna have paid a very dear price.

This quote from that article proves my point that they have it completely ass about

<<Warmer, drier conditions with higher fire danger are preventing agencies from conducting as much hazard reduction burning – it is often either too wet, or too dry and windy to burn safely. Blaming "greenies" for stopping these important measures is a familiar, populist, but basically untrue claim>>

So they are actually saying "Gee, the weather is getting hotter, this increases the fire risk so we better not reduce the fuel load, lets just let it build up and see what happens"

Now they know, what happened is Exactly what they were told would happen when they changed the rules, Now they want to rewrite history to cover their butts

Surely to heaven, if we are having warmer, drier weather then it becomes absolutely imperative that we burn off Every winter

If winter is warmer then surely summer will also be warmer too ?

Just crazy, if it was not so tragic it would be laughable

another link about how it should be done

https://www.australianwildlife.org/our-work/fire-management-program/


----------



## Humid (13 February 2020)

https://reneweconomy.com.au/were-ou...atically-quits-australian-solar-sector-33796/

Coal,gas and nuclear


----------



## Logique (13 February 2020)

Humid said:


> And you reckon they were Labor voters
> Spare me



On this share forum, we tend to like shares as a pathway to wealth. It's called free enterprise.

The Bowen-omics brand ALP (Albo has since woken up) saw a only binary system where you are either:
- in a Unionized job, with your superannuation going into a Union-controlled industry fund
OR
- on welfare

But some people exist in between, which is their right. Just as some blue collar workers make $250k, as Bill Shorten found out in WA, and they don't appreciate being labelled the "Top End of Town".

And self-funded retirees, doing their bit to ease the govt burden of aged pension payments.

I don't believe for a minute that Labor won't have another go at franking


----------



## Logique (13 February 2020)

macca said:


> I seem to recall that this bloke was part of the Koperberg empire, he has been indoctrinated with the current vogue rather than learn from the past.
> 
> When Mr Koperberg started the RFS he centralised all the power by removing authority from the local captains and brigades to conduct burns when the opportunity arises.
> 
> ...



Spot on Macca. He is a Koperberg protege. Seems to gets his lines on fuel reduction from NPWS. 

Winter time is for going up to the snow mate.  Summer time is the glory moment, big airplanes and media appearances with the Premier.  

Too bad about all the houses and lives, and dead possums.


----------



## Logique (13 February 2020)

Humid said:


> https://reneweconomy.com.au/were-ou...atically-quits-australian-solar-sector-33796/
> Coal,gas and nuclear



Yes, yes and yes from me. Electricity is fast becoming a luxury item. 
Hard to install solar panels in an apartment block (before it cracks up, for those in Sydney)


----------



## Humid (13 February 2020)

Logique said:


> Yes, yes and yes from me. Electricity is fast becoming a luxury item.
> Hard to install solar panels in an apartment block (before it cracks up, for those in Sydney)




Good for jobs not sure about the environment

Luxury?
$5 for a flat white
WA power bills are 60 days
Spot the luxury


----------



## sptrawler (13 February 2020)

Humid said:


> https://reneweconomy.com.au/were-ou...atically-quits-australian-solar-sector-33796/
> 
> Coal,gas and nuclear



Saturation of solar is a good thing, now storage and grid infrastructure will be increased, then the solar will take off again. 
It is a natural process, when replacing an established system, with a new system that works in a completely opposite manner.
IMO it is going really well.


----------



## Smurf1976 (13 February 2020)

Humid said:


> Coal,gas and nuclear




As has been said many times, it can be made to work and done so in an economical manner but we need to get the clowns out of the way in order to do so.

The way it is right now, Australia, Victoria in particular, is heading toward an outright train wreck with energy supply as existing infrastructure reaches the end of its life and nowhere near enough is being done to replace it in a technically robust manner.


----------



## Smurf1976 (13 February 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Saturation of solar is a good thing, now storage and grid infrastructure will be increased, then the solar will take off again.



It's an extremely chaotic means of going about it but it could just work in the end....... 

I'm not convinced but it could. 

It could be done more cheaply in a more organised manner though that I'm sure of.


----------



## sptrawler (13 February 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> It's an extremely chaotic means of going about it but it could just work in the end.......
> 
> I'm not convinced but it could.
> 
> It could be done more cheaply in a more organised manner though that I'm sure of.



The grid would still need upgrading and as the articles say, the problems that are surfacing are unexpected, if it was Government organised all the solar farms would probably be on a take or pay contract.
So now while we wait for the grid to be re configured, the taxpayer would be paying for the output, even though it can't be used.
As it is the private sector want to invest in solar, because in reality it is a cheap one of capital cost, that pays out for years.
So there will always be investors available especially while there is coal on the system, the solar/wind beats the coal and will push the coal off the bars, this will be more pronounced when storage is introduced into the system.
So I think the Government shouldn't get involved untill they are required, too often Government policy is formulated before the issues are identified, then we end up paying double for something because we headed down the wrong track in the first place.


----------



## Humid (13 February 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Saturation of solar is a good thing, now storage and grid infrastructure will be increased, then the solar will take off again.
> It is a natural process, when replacing an established system, with a new system that works in a completely opposite manner.
> IMO it is going really well.




My roof top solar was approved by Synergy and Western power the day it was lodged
3days later they updated the meter


----------



## Smurf1976 (14 February 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Yes, we are generaly talking about the Eastern States grid, they have the problem.



I'll refine that to saying that the problem is primarily one affecting NSW (incl ACT), Vic and SA.

Qld and Tas are part of the same grid but in much better shape with the latter in particular having not much tolerance for nonsense.


----------



## sptrawler (14 February 2020)

Humid said:


> My roof top solar was approved by Synergy and Western power the day it was lodged
> 3days later they updated the meter



My reply seems to have been lost so this is a re post, what I said was, we generally are talking about Eastern States issues.
W.A is an islanded grid with plenty of options, I would think W.A will be coal free within 15 years.


----------



## sptrawler (14 February 2020)

With regard coal generally, I would guess we will be exporting coal to third World Countries for power production, for a long time.
It is easy to transport, has high calorific value and is safe and easy to handle, therefore the third World Countries will use it, until they are in a position to integrate and update to new more expensive technology and fuel.


----------



## qldfrog (14 February 2020)

sptrawler said:


> until they are in a position to integrate and update to *new more expensive *technology and fuel.



Why the hell would they..or any sensible person?
Only government spending someone else money would do that
There is a ROI on anything except socislism/state governed decisions
Rephrase it
 We will still be exporting coal in 50-100y until our government forbids it


----------



## Logique (15 February 2020)

Bjorn Lomborg was run out of the country by the universities, and he is a warmist!  What hope do we have for an electricity supply not requiring a second mortgage..

Premier Berejiklian for starters can turn off the electricity inter-connector to the Peoples Republic of Victoria. Let them have wind turbines along St Kilda beach.  One day the Vic -tariat will wake up to Chairman Dan.

Our high energy prices are a national embarrassment..Matt Canavan - I would shout at the PM too given the chance. Someone has to..


----------



## Smurf1976 (15 February 2020)

The reason Australia is “out of line” on energy costs has a lot more to do with market structure and governance than with the method of generation.

A point that sends politicians on both sides ducking for cover is simply to mention that AGL offered lower gas prices, in real terms so taking inflation into account, back when it was a monopoly than it does today in a competitive market.

AGL has always been investor owned, indeed it’s one of the oldest companies in Australia dating back to 1837, but on the government side well Tasmania went in the opposite direction. The Hydro (100% government owned) bought out the only significant competitor and promptly cut electricity prices.

Both of those are entirely rational outcomes and not at all surprising in view of the underlying economics of the gas and electricity industries.

Trouble is, we’ve got people in government making decisions who genuinely don’t understand why that’s the case and they’re stuffing it up on a grand scale much to the dismay of everyone from engineers and manufacturers through to environmentalists and social welfare groups.

The best thing the politicians could do is completely remove themselves and their ideas from the equation.


----------



## SirRumpole (15 February 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> The best thing the politicians could do is completely remove themselves and their ideas from the equation.




In the current climate of political ratbaggery I would have to agree. 

There doesn't appear to be a Chifley/Menzies bipartisanship these days that was needed to build the Snowy Mountains scheme.

Maybe Snowy Hydro 2.0 goes part of the way, but the rest is just political point scoring about the "unsightliness" of wind turbines or other quibbles that stand in the way of politicians vested interests.


----------



## Humid (15 February 2020)

sptrawler said:


> My reply seems to have been lost so this is a re post, what I said was, we generally are talking about Eastern States issues.
> W.A is an islanded grid with plenty of options, I would think W.A will be coal free within 15 years.




Not lost at all
Just highlighting what a circus the east coast is
Sometimes isolation is a good thing


----------



## basilio (16 February 2020)

macca said:


> This quote from that article proves my point that they have it completely ass about
> *
> <<Warmer, drier conditions with higher fire danger are preventing agencies from conducting as much hazard reduction burning – it is often either too wet, or too dry and windy to burn safely. Blaming "greenies" for stopping these important measures is a familiar, populist, but basically untrue claim>*>
> 
> So they are actually saying "Gee, the weather is getting hotter, this increases the fire risk so we better not reduce the fuel load, lets just let it build up and see what happens"




*  Black equals white award.* 
*         First prize  with Distinction.
*
Macca the  first statement is totally on the ball.   Surely you can only do fuel reduction burns  safely when weather and environment conditions allow to you start a cool burn fire with the realistic belief you can contain it. There is always a risk of these fires getting away and the CFA just use their judgement and pray like hell the situation doesn't change.

What happens when it goes wrong ?

*Back-burning devastates Wilson's Promontory*
_PRINT FRIENDLY EMAIL STORY 
*The World Today - Monday, 4 April , 2005  12:42:00*

*Reporter: Rachel Carbonell*

TANYA NOLAN: Now to the bizarre story of an official burn-off that has devastated one of Victoria's prime tourist attractions.

7,000 hectares of one of the Garden State's most spectacular and iconic national parks has been burnt out in a massive bushfire lit by a State Government department. The blaze is still burning out of control at Wilson's Promontory on Victoria's far east coastline, and 500 campers have been evacuated._

https://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2005/s1337684.htm

The whole story is worth reading because it  illustrates the challenge and reality of what the experienced fire fighters are saying. 
Does that make sense ?


----------



## sptrawler (16 February 2020)

The thing that has improved back burning and fuel reduction burns, is the improvement in BOM forecasting IMO.


----------



## macca (16 February 2020)

What I find exceedingly frustrating about fire management is the incredible arrogance of those in charge.

They have these massively over inflated egos that delude them into thinking that they can put any fire out whenever they want to

As has been shown, that is total bull****

We need to be defensive, we need to respect the power of Nature, perhaps we need to turn back the clock a few decades and be afraid of nature, we need to take steps to remove fuel whenever we can.

As I said previously, if winters are hotter it seems rather logical that summers will also be hotter as well. So therefore, winter is still the best time to hazard reduce.

I can understand it is very hard for anyone in the public eye to stand up and say "we were wrong" but that is what is needed and until the recommendations of every enquiry are enforced it will keep right on burning


----------



## sptrawler (16 February 2020)

macca said:


> What I find exceedingly frustrating about fire management is the incredible arrogance of those in charge.
> 
> They have these massively over inflated egos that delude them into thinking that they can put any fire out whenever they want to
> 
> ...



I agree with you Macca, but the media just wants you to say, "it is climate change and we if we stop burning fossil fuel, it will fix it", then it will be all good.
I actually don't understand, why everyone doesn't just say o.k, then they might shut up.
Then kids can stay in school and learn their times tables and we can get on with controlled burns.
Why not just let the coal fired Power Stations shut down, and let people live with it, just regulate how much power people can consume.
Put meters on each house that are card or cash operated, you only can use what you pay for, the poor will learn to budget and the rich can pay to run their McMansions.
They used to have coin operated gas meters in the U.K years ago, I reckon it would sort things out really quickly, coal fired Stations wouldn't be required, because people would be a lot more aware of what they use.
It is like water and water restrictions, if everyone was on a tank, they would soon learn how to conserve water.
We are being run by inner City FWS.


----------



## SirRumpole (16 February 2020)

sptrawler said:


> They used to have coin operated gas meters in the U.K years ago, I reckon it would sort things out really quickly, coal fired Stations wouldn't be required, because people would be a lot more aware of what they use.




You would have to put an ATM is every house now.


----------



## sptrawler (16 February 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> You would have to put an ATM is every house now.



We have just had our two month summer power bill, two A/C's one 7Kw split the other a 5Kw split, double storey two living areas. Downstairs small 3x2, upstairs 90sq/m 1x1 with kitchen lounge.
So with 6.6Kw of solar and being careful, running the A/C's during the day and shutting down at sunset, the electricity bill $70. That isn't bad IMO, for three adults and two kids.


----------



## Humid (21 February 2020)

https://www.michaelwest.com.au/pork-n-ride-another-dodgy-election-winning-rort-for-the-coalition/

Nothing to see here.....let's bash Labor some more


----------



## Smurf1976 (21 February 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Put meters on each house that are card or cash operated, you only can use what you pay for, the poor will learn to budget and the rich can pay to run their McMansions.
> They used to have coin operated gas meters in the U.K years ago




Pay As You Go electricity was introduced in Tasmania mid-1990's and later was also offered by Aurora Energy (Tas govt owned) in SA.

Long story short, national rules changed and mandated that the PAYG meters had to be read by a meter reader. That task turned out to be rather problematic since one common reason for someone choosing to install PAYG was that the meters weren't readily accessible - eg they'd built a wall or sun room or have a big dog or whatever which wasn't a problem given nobody had to come and read them.

So reading these meters was a substantial logistical task with appointments and so on. End result is it no longer exists and all the meters have been physically replaced with what were termed "Advanced Meters" in Tas, this being to avoid use of the term "Smart Meter" (which is exactly what they are) because some clowns have convinced a few people that smart meters are the devil's work.

So no Pay As You Go, national rules didn't like that, and no Smart Meters just in case one jumps out of the switchboard and attacks someone in the middle of the night or something like that.


----------



## basilio (22 February 2020)

I suggest one could put some sort of electronic control on a smart meter to regulate the amount of power that is used.  For example you could have an indoor monitor that showed in real time your power consumption.  There may be a way to flag "excessive" use .

Certainly not beyond technical possibilities I would have thought.
https://reductionrevolution.com.au/products/watts-clever-smart-digital-energy-monitor-ew4500


----------



## sptrawler (22 February 2020)

basilio said:


> I suggest one could put some sort of electronic control on a smart meter to regulate the amount of power that is used.  For example you could have an indoor monitor that showed in real time your power consumption.  There may be a way to flag "excessive" use .
> 
> Certainly not beyond technical possibilities I would have thought.
> https://reductionrevolution.com.au/products/watts-clever-smart-digital-energy-monitor-ew4500



It would be very easy, just put a current transformer on the incoming cable and have a display in the house showing instantaneous power usage, then people could see exactly how much power is being used when various appliances are running.


----------



## Logique (26 February 2020)

Here is the Morrison Government defending free speech.
Just not Bettina Arndt's. With friends like Bolt and Credlin ..how quickly they abandoned ship.

http://catallaxyfiles.com/2020/02/25/remind-me-who-won-the-last-election/


----------



## Smurf1976 (26 February 2020)

basilio said:


> I suggest one could put some sort of electronic control on a smart meter to regulate the amount of power that is used



Done in Tasmania back in 1995.

Long story short - it blew up politically along with associated issues in dramatic fashion and came to an abrupt end in 1996.

That debacle still gets the occasional mention in various places (other states) today. If anyone tries it again it’ll be a very slow implementation is my expectation. 

Personally I thought it was a decent idea with the whole thing but the general public most certainly did not agree.


----------



## SirRumpole (26 February 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Done in Tasmania back in 1995.
> 
> 
> Personally I thought it was a decent idea with the whole thing but the general public most certainly did not agree.




I'm sure that the spectre of "a socialist takeover of our electricity" would have been raised by some.


----------



## Logique (29 February 2020)

So now the Libs want to jail anyone spending their own ($10k + 1) cash money..?

- Is a note legal tender or not? -like it says on the face
- Wasn't GST about restricting the 'black' economy?
- How long will the $10k max limit last? Thin end of the wedge

Who's the real PM?  Seems to me it's Trent Zimmerman







> *Ban on $10,000 cash purchases set to become law despite concerns*.  Laughing Liberals will jail people who spend their own money
> "Bernie Morrison", by currencylad, February 28, 2020: http://catallaxyfiles.com/2020/02/28/bernie-morrison/#comments


----------



## wayneL (29 February 2020)

Logique said:


> So now the Libs want to jail anyone spending their own ($10k + 1) cash money..?
> 
> - Is a note legal tender or not? -like it says on the face
> - Wasn't GST about restricting the 'black' economy?
> ...



Final nail in the coffin for me. I will never vote Liberal again... Ever.... **** 'em.

Have a look at the recommendations just released.... Just incredibly divisive and so dumb.


----------



## Knobby22 (29 February 2020)

Rare to see the Greens and One Nation on the same side.


----------



## moXJO (29 February 2020)

Libs can go get fked.

Shoot it down labor and grab those votes. Libs about to lose a lot of members 


See the "Basel III Accord" that Abbott & Turnbull signed us up to. Sold down the river to the banks


----------



## IFocus (29 February 2020)

Greens protecting our rights...........


----------



## sptrawler (29 February 2020)

moXJO said:


> Libs can go get fked.
> 
> Shoot it down labor and grab those votes. Libs about to lose a lot of members
> 
> ...



Read the Lima agreement/ declaration, the Labor Party signed us up for in the 1970s sunshine.
Isnt finger pointing wonderfull, only limited by your memory.


----------



## Humid (29 February 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Read the Lima agreement/ declaration, the Labor Party signed us up for in the 1970s sunshine.
> Isnt finger pointing wonderfull, only limited by your memory.




Skyhooks.......


----------



## sptrawler (29 February 2020)

Humid said:


> Skyhooks.......



Dont fear history Humid, it actually helps you understand the present.
The one good thing about blind unthinking believers is, you never run out of cannon fodder, so it warms my heart when I read your posts.


----------



## sptrawler (29 February 2020)

moXJO said:


> Libs can go get fked.
> 
> Shoot it down labor and grab those votes. Libs about to lose a lot of members
> 
> ...



Margin call?


----------



## Humid (29 February 2020)

So your still backin the Libs

Imagine if ya franking credits come in cash....


Good on ya


----------



## moXJO (29 February 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Read the Lima agreement/ declaration, the Labor Party signed us up for in the 1970s sunshine.
> Isnt finger pointing wonderfull, only limited by your memory.




When it's the greens/one nation making the stand, we are in serious trouble. I don't have much faith in labor actually standing with the people either. But the libs have gone well past the line.


----------



## sptrawler (29 February 2020)

Humid said:


> So your still backin the Libs
> 
> Imagine if ya franking credits come in cash....
> 
> ...



Imagine if silly billy had got in and cancelled them, after this crash, it would have cost them more in pension payments than they had saved, still its good to see you still want to screw the pensioners.
Wont be long before your the recipient.
Then I will vote for it.lol


----------



## sptrawler (29 February 2020)

moXJO said:


> When it's the greens/one nation making the stand, we are in serious trouble. I don't have much faith in labor actually standing with the people either. But the libs have gone well past the line.



When they signed up to the Lima agreement in the 70s, there wasnt a greens or one nation party, things always change, the way things are going in  20 years a couple of the parties we have now wont be here.IMO


----------



## Humid (29 February 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Dont fear history Humid, it actually helps you understand the present.
> The one good thing about blind unthinking believers is, you never run out of cannon fodder, so it warms my heart when I read your posts.




On a Scummo thread where the conversation is about people leaving the Libs you come out with a comment about blind unthinking believers in the defence 

How long before the finger hits the button before the the brain engaged


----------



## Humid (29 February 2020)

sptrawler said:


> When they signed up to the Lima agreement in the 70s, there wasnt a greens or one nation party, things always change, the way things are going in  20 years a couple of the parties we have now wont be here.IMO




Nor you if Tinhat gets his ways


----------



## sptrawler (29 February 2020)

Humid said:


> On a Scummo thread where the conversation is about people leaving the Libs you come out with a comment about blind unthinking believers in the defence
> 
> How long before the finger hits the button before the the brain engaged



You would be better qualified to answer that, than I, we are yet to see an intelligent post from yourself, or even a post of any financial relevance.
One liners, with no substance, seems to be your limit.
But this is a friendly forum, so enjoy yourself trolling.
I see you joined the forum in 2018, were you banned from facebook and twitter, for trolling?


----------



## IFocus (29 February 2020)

Going to prison because you spent more than $10k is just unbelievable who makes this stuff up?


----------



## Smurf1976 (1 March 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Read the Lima agreement/ declaration, the Labor Party signed us up for in the 1970s



That’s the direct reason we’re the coal king today and why Labor won’t be putting the brakes on mining.

Rest assured the Liberals are equally bad though - neither major party effectively represents the ordinary person.

Basel, Lima.... all selling out the ordinary people and the planet too.


----------



## Humid (1 March 2020)

sptrawler said:


> You would be better qualified to answer that, than I, we are yet to see an intelligent post from yourself, or even a post of any financial relevance.
> One liners, with no substance, seems to be your limit.
> But this is a friendly forum, so enjoy yourself trolling.
> I see you joined the forum in 2018, were you banned from facebook and twitter, for trolling?




Ok I'll be serious
How's your share portfolio doing


----------



## moXJO (1 March 2020)

IFocus said:


> Going to prison because you spent more than $10k is just unbelievable who makes this stuff up?



Its absolutely crazy that legal tender is no longer legal.


----------



## sptrawler (1 March 2020)

Humid said:


> Ok I'll be serious
> How's your share portfolio doing



Down $100k but still self funded off it, how's yours?


----------



## SirRumpole (1 March 2020)

moXJO said:


> Its absolutely crazy that legal tender is no longer legal.




Are casinos exempt I wonder ?


----------



## Humid (1 March 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Down $100k but still self funded off it, how's yours?




To scared to look....
 Bought more BHP though
Still self funded....... through employer


----------



## Smurf1976 (1 March 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Basel, Lima.... all selling out the ordinary people and the planet too.




Something I'll add is that things like the Lima Agreement were perhaps well intentioned at the time but a classic case of those negotiating and agreeing to it failing to understand what was needed with the detail.

That's a very common situation where governments are concerned and gives rise to "the law of unintended consequences". What happens when a not unreasonable idea turns to disaster because those implementing it can't think far enough ahead.

Same thing happens with everything from building regulations to mental health sadly. Nice intentions but a bad outcome due to failing to think ahead. Failing to grasp that changing "x" can't be done in isolation and will prompt other things to also change.


----------



## SirRumpole (1 March 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Something I'll add is that things like the Lima Agreement were perhaps well intentioned at the time but a classic case of those negotiating and agreeing to it failing to understand what was needed with the detail.




The intention was obviously wealth redistrubution but probably not to the extent that has occurred.

The really sad part is that although labour in the poorer countries at least have some sort of job, they are being heavily exploited and are basically slaves,  meanwhile the labour in other countries like ours that would buy their products have been dragged down to the point where they are struggling to meet mortgage payments, rent and bills , and can't get any or enough hours to earn the income to buy the products that the Third World produces.

It is  a crap deal for everyone. One solution as I see it is to (gradually) impose tariffs based on the difference between our median wage and conditions and those of other countries. This will increase the wages of the poorer countries and equalise the world economy so that we are all operating on a level playing field again.


----------



## Smurf1976 (1 March 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> The intention was obviously wealth redistrubution but probably not to the extent that has occurred.



The original intention was basically to give others a hand to lift themselves up and to do this by investing, buying some of what they produce and so on.

The actual outcome is that we've basically set someone else up to literally put us out of business indeed in many areas they've done exactly that.

We were going to import 30% of manufactured goods, that was the specific intention, but reality today is that from bed sheets to cars we've not simply let others in but we've put ourselves out of business completely. Everything from Patons to Pye is gone, kaput, closed completely.

That then gives rise to a brain drain in Australia since, no offence to anyone intended, but those with a mind toward science, engineering, technology etc tend to have precisely zero interest or use in the low value service industries which have replaced manufacturing. It also leads to a broader social and economic decline since these alternatives tend to not pay overly well.


----------



## sptrawler (1 March 2020)

Humid said:


> To scared to look....
> Bought more BHP though
> Still self funded....... through employer



That's recession proof, never underestimate the value of a job.
Labor's franking credit proposal, on top of this happening, would have been earth shattering for those blue collar workers who struggled to save and be self funded.

 In one year their effort, dignity, endeavour would have been for nothing, that is just taking the pizz it is about as un Australian as it gets.
But I guess that is the new Australian way, luckily you will be over the log before me, is my call.


----------



## sptrawler (1 March 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> The original intention was basically to give others a hand to lift themselves up and to do this by investing, buying some of what they produce and so on.
> 
> The actual outcome is that we've basically set someone else up to literally put us out of business indeed in many areas they've done exactly that.
> 
> ...



The really sad part is, there are sections of Parliament that still believe we haven't gone far enough, for some reason they obviously feel we are impervious to living standard drop.
What I would say is, within 50-100 years we will be an Asian Country with an Asian living standard.
There is a reason they are allowing our educational standards to fall, allowing mass Asian/Indian immigration and encouraging multiculturalism.
just my opinion.


----------



## Humid (1 March 2020)

sptrawler said:


> That's recession proof, never underestimate the value of a job.
> Labor's franking credit proposal, on top of this happening, would have been earth shattering for those blue collar workers who struggled to save and be self funded.
> 
> In one year their effort, dignity, endeavour would have been for nothing, that is just taking the pizz it is about as un Australian as it gets.
> But I guess that is the new Australian way, luckily you will be over the log before me, is my call.



If the franking credit proposal is the difference between comfortable and poverty line I suggest you seek professional financial advice
Seriously how deep is your reliance on them


----------



## sptrawler (1 March 2020)

Humid said:


> If the franking credit proposal is the difference between comfortable and poverty line I suggest you seek professional financial advice
> Seriously how deep is your reliance on them



Not reliant at all, but the issue is about trying to reduce the cost to Government, not increase it.
As was shown, a couple on part pension and $800k invested, were $20k better than someone who had saved $900K.
Maybe it would be easier to understand if, you on $250k took home 30% less than someone working next to you on $200k.
You no doubt would say I dont have a problem with that, but you would if the difference meant you took home $35k while they took home $58k.
Unlike yourself, it isn't about me, it is about putting in place a system, that works and encourages endeavour.
Why invest and save at all, if all that will happen, is you are punished and criticised for it in the end


----------



## sptrawler (1 March 2020)

Humid said:


> If the franking credit proposal is the difference between comfortable and poverty line I suggest you seek professional financial advice
> Seriously how deep is your reliance on them



See the problem is Humid you were just pleased that, I was going to be bent over the log, whether it was right of wrong didn't come into your head.
Now you are dwelling on the fact it didn't happen, what you should be asking is how can we make the system better.
Because if as you say you earn $250k a year, the log will be waiting for you, when in reality you work away save your money invest wisely you should have a better retirement income than someone on welfare.
Might sound harsh, but the system should encourage people like you to save for a better retirement.
You are never going to build a better Country, if the reward for more effort is a worse outcome.
The fact your on the side lines gloating and egging on my misfortune, is in reality a sad indictment of where Labor is at the moment.
Just my opinion


----------



## Humid (1 March 2020)

sptrawler said:


> See the problem is Humid you were just pleased that, I was going to be bent over the log, whether it was right of wrong didn't come into your head.
> Now you are dwelling on the fact it didn't happen, what you should be asking is how can we make the system better.
> Because if as you say you earn $250k a year, the log will be waiting for you, when in reality you work away save your money invest wisely you should have a better retirement income than someone on welfare.
> Might sound harsh, but the system should encourage people like you to save for a better retirement.
> ...



 I'm not gloating on your failure
I'm taking the P out of your success


----------



## Smurf1976 (1 March 2020)

Humid said:


> If the franking credit proposal is the difference between comfortable and poverty line I suggest you seek professional financial advice



The real issue is that it was another case of a political party not giving a damn about those in the middle.

No worries for those earning $ millions, they were to keep them, and obviously no worries for those on welfare. It was the ordinary middle class working man or woman who had something to lose and that's the same group which has tended to lose from most "reforms" for quite some time now.

As you're no doubt aware, I'll give either of the big two a kick for bad ideas. In this case it was Labor but that doesn't mean I think the Liberals are any good either. It's like one brand of smokes versus another really - both will kill you in the end.


----------



## sptrawler (1 March 2020)

Humid said:


> I'm not gloating on your failure
> I'm taking the P out of your success



You really should be focusing more on your own future, than mine, my race is run I'm where I am and am limited in being able to change my outcome.
What is much more important, is that you focus on your outcome and forget about me.
I'm sure in dollar terms the tax cut you got, is greater than the franking credits I got, the difference is I don't begrudge yours.
Also don't worry, silly Billies tax payer funded, indexed for life pension will be far in excess of what either of us earn or indeed earned.


----------



## sptrawler (1 March 2020)

Humid said:


> I'm not gloating on your failure
> I'm taking the P out of your success



If you measure success by me, I think you will be sadly disappointed, I live in a single bedroom unit in suburbia.
You really need to do something about that nasty streak.


----------



## wayneL (2 March 2020)

A bit on the cash ban.... Really interesting analysis.


----------



## Humid (2 March 2020)

sptrawler said:


> If you measure success by me, I think you will be sadly disappointed, I live in a single bedroom unit in suburbia.
> You really need to do something about that nasty streak.



Really a couple weeks ago you were in a two storey joint with 2aircons
Share market must of bit hard
Not on a pension and traveling constantly
Must be doin something right
Your not selling crack are you


----------



## sptrawler (2 March 2020)

Humid said:


> Really a couple weeks ago you were in a two storey joint with 2aircons
> Share market must of bit hard
> Not on a pension and traveling constantly
> Must be doin something right
> Your not selling crack are you



Like I said you really need to focus more on you own situation.


----------



## moXJO (2 March 2020)

wayneL said:


> A bit on the cash ban.... Really interesting analysis.




About 12 min in our idiot treasurer bumbles his way on an explanation of what happens once interest rates go negative.  

Labor is backing the policy so they can bite it as well. This is all about propping the banks up.


----------



## wayneL (2 March 2020)

moXJO said:


> About 12 min in our idiot treasurer bumbles his way on an explanation of what happens once interest rates go negative.
> 
> Labor is backing the policy so they can bite it as well. This is all about propping the banks up.



Do we need any more evidence that we indeed live in a corporatocracy rathet than either a capitalism or as social democracy?


----------



## moXJO (2 March 2020)

wayneL said:


> Do we need any more evidence that we indeed live in a corporatocracy rathet than either a capitalism or as social democracy?



You look at some of the laws that lib government has brought in:
From the state's we had the anti-consorting laws. This was aimed at bikies, now used on anyone police want to target.

Data retention laws. Oh what a line of crap they sold us on this one. Our data was safe they said:


> Australia's Department of Home Affairs doesn't even know how many agencies have been authorised to access telecommunications metadata without a warrant, let alone what for, but the cops want more.



https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www...aged-over-poor-data-retention-laws-oversight/
So they can Intrude right into our lives on a whim.

Internet censorship: Yep, they blocked out anything they didn't want us to see.

And now they can view and cap our spending at leisure.  Its $10,000 now. That can be reduced at anytime with the included clause. So who is to say our spending habits are then not targeted. You like a drink, insurance companies bump up your premium. Enjoy risky activities, same deal.

Our privacy is being raped.

*Edward Snowden*: "*Arguing that you don't care* about the right to privacy because *you *have nothing to hide is no different than saying *you don't care* about free speech because *you* have nothing to say."


----------



## Humid (2 March 2020)

You lot obviously did


----------



## moXJO (2 March 2020)

Humid said:


> You lot obviously did



Unfortunately labor backed them as well.


----------



## wayneL (2 March 2020)

moXJO said:


> You look at some of the laws that lib government has brought in:
> From the state's we had the anti-consorting laws. This was aimed at bikies, now used on anyone police want to target.
> 
> Data retention laws. Oh what a line of crap they sold us on this one. Our data was safe they said:
> ...



Interesting point: half the people you speak to thought that the cash ban was some sort of conspiracy theory and that the government will never do that to us.

We are collectively sleepwalking into the dystopia.


----------



## orr (2 March 2020)

Why anyone would be surprised by a Liberal Government capping you spending your own money the way you want, might like to look back to who it was that introduced legislation for the government to confiscate the gold of citizens in the case of economic need. ... I'll do it for you ... Menzies.


----------



## wayneL (2 March 2020)

orr said:


> Why anyone would be surprised by a Liberal Government capping you spending your own money the way you want, might like to look back to who it was that introduced legislation for the government to confiscate the gold of citizens in the case of economic need. ... I'll do it for you ... Menzies.



Yep, Labor has been pristine, lily white, Mother Theresa-like. If we value freedom and benevolent government, we should look no further than our Komrades in the Labor Party.


----------



## IFocus (2 March 2020)

wayneL said:


> Yep, Labor has been pristine, lily white, Mother Theresa-like. If we value freedom and benevolent government, we should look no further than our Komrades in the Labor Party.




All the while you have been crying out that the insidious leftspittles are destroying Australia................yet our freedom is been fought for by the Greens.


----------



## moXJO (3 March 2020)

IFocus said:


> All the while you have been crying out that the insidious leftspittles are destroying Australia................yet our freedom is been fought for by the Greens.




And one nation.

Surprised the greens are against it, but good on them.


----------



## sptrawler (3 March 2020)

Shows how fickle the media is, they have been calling for stimulus for the last 6 months, now that the Government is talking about it. The media is saying it is a shameless about face, I guess they have to write something.
As long as it is focused on sensible well thought out infrastructure it will be fine IMO, if it is just thrown out the back of a ute, they will be hammered as they should be.
Just my opinion.
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/stimulus-is-only-a-matter-of-time-20200302-p5465q.html


----------



## wayneL (3 March 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Shows how fickle the media is, they have been calling for stimulus for the last 6 months, now that the Government is talking about it. The media is saying it is a shameless about face, I guess they have to write something.
> As long as it is focused on sensible well thought out infrastructure it will be fine IMO, if it is just thrown out the back of a ute, they will be hammered as they should be.
> Just my opinion.
> https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/stimulus-is-only-a-matter-of-time-20200302-p5465q.html



Stimulate
Stimulate
Stimulate
Stimulate
Stimulate
BOOM!


(IMNTBCHO)


----------



## sptrawler (4 March 2020)

It sounds as though Leigh Sales tore strips of Morrison on the 7.30 report.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/scott-morrison-grilled-on-abc-730-by-leigh-sales-211432628.html
From the article:


----------



## SirRumpole (4 March 2020)

sptrawler said:


> It sounds as though Leigh Sales tore strips of Morrison on the 7.30 report.
> 
> https://au.news.yahoo.com/scott-morrison-grilled-on-abc-730-by-leigh-sales-211432628.html
> From the article:




Yes she did. He looked a bit rattled I thought.

He's probably lucky the COVID came along as a distraction because he can't really defend the sports rorts allegations.


----------



## sptrawler (4 March 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Yes she did. He looked a bit rattled I thought.
> 
> He's probably lucky the COVID came along as a distraction because he can't really defend the sports rorts allegations.



Well that is what should happen, when you sit in the 'big chair', Australia needs to get a direction and a purpose.
Sitting out your time in office, to hopefully have a trouble free run isn't going to cut it any more, we have a changing economy and no one in recent history has addressed it.
There has been way too many politicians recently, more concerned with their media appeal, than actually making Australia a better place.
The public are becoming better informed through social media and google, therefore if Morrison doesn't get off his butt he suffer at the polls.
These pending reports had better be good IMO, or he will be toast.
Unfortunately Albo putting out the zero by 2050 statement, puts him in a bit of a bind IMO, I think he will also suffer unless he comes up with a viable plan.
Like I said the public, is better informed these days, even the thick ones.
Just my opinion.


----------



## SirRumpole (4 March 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Well that is what should happen, when you sit in the 'big chair', Australia needs to get a direction and a purpose.
> Sitting out your time in office, to hopefully have a trouble free run isn't going to cut it any more, we have a changing economy and no one in recent history has addressed it.
> There has been way too many politicians recently, more concerned with their media appeal, than actually making Australia a better place.
> The public are becoming better informed through social media and google, therefore if Morrison doesn't get off his butt he suffer at the polls.
> ...




One would hope that the public is better informed, I'm not so sure. Quality journalism has been declining and with the demise of AAP it will decline even further.

As much as I dislike the political correctness of the ABC I think it's our one last hope to get some serious policy analysis instead of the continual intrigue of party politics, and I have my fingers firmly crossed as I write.


----------



## Smurf1976 (4 March 2020)

sptrawler said:


> There has been way too many politicians recently, more concerned with their media appeal, than actually making Australia a better place.



"Optics" is what they call it.

Need to worry about "the optics of the situation".

It's a term used frequently by people who are out of their depth on anything relating to the actual subject and are only worried about how it looks via the media.


----------



## wayneL (4 March 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> One would hope that the public is better informed, I'm not so sure. Quality journalism has been declining and with the demise of AAP it will decline even further.
> 
> As much as I dislike the political correctness of the ABC I think it's our one last hope to get some serious policy analysis instead of the continual intrigue of party politics, and I have my fingers firmly crossed as I write.




There are moves afoot in the UK to try to make the BBC more representative of the spectrum of British society (good luck with that).

If the current government had any balls they would try to do the same.... And I don't necessarily mean present more right wing views (which they should of course give a fair hearing), but more views along the various  socioeconomic stratas.

State media tends to represent the inner city <cough> "elite", from which most of their employees are drawn from.

As someone who has mixed in all sorts of different social stratas (and I heartily agree with Monsieur Montaigne in "Essays", but I digress...) , State media does not represent that spectrum at all.

Hence I think the ABC can be reformed... should be reformed to be a true state broadcaster and represent all stratas society.


----------



## Logique (5 March 2020)

It's unbelievable the saturation of climate change on ABC radio, they just drone on and on. It's a broken record, they're obsessed. 

It's like, is there anything else happening in the world? Unlistenable


----------



## orr (5 March 2020)

Logique said:


> It's unbelievable the saturation of climate change on ABC radio, they just drone on and on. It's a broken record, they're obsessed.
> 
> It's like, is there anything else happening in the world? Unlistenable




oh well:
Just think (unlikely) if only the work had of started when Margret Thatcher and John Howard a few years later recognised AGW as a problem. 
But alas the duping of so many by vested interests have led us to this point.
The dolts though still 'haven't left the box'. 
Or; Take DEVO's advice and 'use your Freedom of Choice: Freedom of Choice'
And the option....News Corpse has saturation un-coverage... 'you'll turn in circles and drop dead'.... by choice. I would.
The Barrier Reefs have'n another Bleach... Who would of thought? 
Ahhh... 30+ years of scientific opinion.

Oh and free advice to the Clown outfit Schmo Show; The answer to ALL  your political and economic problems('_For all the other-ones, they're manifold, there's no hope'_) and OURS is 'The Green New Deal'.


----------



## sptrawler (5 March 2020)

orr said:


> oh well:
> Just think (unlikely) if only the work had of started when Margret Thatcher and John Howard a few years later recognised AGW as a problem.
> But alas the duping of so many by vested interests have led us to this point.
> The dolts though still 'haven't left the box'.
> ...



Jeez you could look on the bright side, Kev might get another run, with his magic wand.
At least all the energy hungry plasmas he bought last time round, will probably be in the landfill by now.


----------



## IFocus (6 March 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Jeez you could look on the bright side, Kev might get another run, with his magic wand.
> At least all the energy hungry plasmas he bought last time round, will probably be in the landfill by now.




Labor followed treasury advice (Ken Henry) and avoided recession and it was far more than the cash handouts, this mob of clowns may well screw it up who knows, if they do mess it up franking credits will be the least of your problems


----------



## wayneL (6 March 2020)

IFocus said:


> Labor followed treasury advice (Ken Henry) and avoided recession and it was far more than the cash handouts, this mob of clowns may well screw it up who knows, if they do mess it up franking credits will be the least of your problems



You are right out this mob being clowns and yes they WILL screw it up, however this country has been whiteanted for decades now.

We're f***** mate, it's just a matter of which mob runs out of road to kick the can down.


----------



## moXJO (6 March 2020)

IFocus said:


> Labor followed treasury advice (Ken Henry) and avoided recession and it was far more than the cash handouts, this mob of clowns may well screw it up who knows, if they do mess it up franking credits will be the least of your problems



That's what killed us. It was too over the top.


----------



## Humid (6 March 2020)

Paywalls push tight arses like me to the ABC but Skynews is on in the mess at dinner and that's a new level of propaganda


----------



## Logique (6 March 2020)

Humid said:


> Paywalls push tight arses like me to the ABC but Skynews is on in the mess at dinner and that's a new level of propaganda



Who are you kidding Humid? Name one conservative on the ABC. They just gave Gerard Henderson the boot. -Any others, probably too frightened to open their mouths in Ultimo, for fear of ending up in a re-education camp.

I'm happy to name the Labor people on Sky


----------



## Humid (6 March 2020)

Paywalls lean toward print mate


----------



## IFocus (6 March 2020)

Apparently the stimulus is only going to marginal seats..............anyone want to bet against that


----------



## SirRumpole (6 March 2020)

wayneL said:


> Hence I think the ABC can be reformed... should be reformed to be a true state broadcaster and represent all stratas society.




Yeah, lets make it just like Newcorpse.


----------



## Humid (6 March 2020)

No jobs no growth no surplus no penalty rates the adults are back in charge
A government that refuses to spend and then wonders why the voters aren't spending
People mortgaged to the hilt from a property bubble fuelled by an unmanaged boom with reckless immigration


----------



## sptrawler (6 March 2020)

IFocus said:


> Labor followed treasury advice (Ken Henry) and avoided recession and it was far more than the cash handouts, this mob of clowns may well screw it up who knows, if they do mess it up franking credits will be the least of your problems



NAB listened to Ken Henry also.

Australia at the time was going through the biggest construction boom in history, we had more 457 workers than Australian workers, Kev just couldnt help himself.
He doesnt seem to have changed much either.
Anyway it was what it was, now we just have to see if Morrison can stuff it up as well.


----------



## Humid (6 March 2020)

The new bloke listens to God


----------



## IFocus (6 March 2020)




----------



## qldfrog (6 March 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Yeah, lets make it just like Newcorpse.



funny thing is that news limited is seen as right by labour people here who obviously do not read watch it, While not just pure leftist and an absolute click bait crap, it is overall something which would be on the left of the US democrats at least during the Clinton Obama time:
open news.com.au  today
an ugly picture of Trump a la abc..bashing him.....
**** **** for pages  *** for s h i t  or utter crap
one article Country makes public transport free ..you would expect on the abc
then **** **** **** from MAFS to british royals drama....
Climate Change: Climate change link to aussie bushfires
and more crap

This is current at time of typing  headlines on the web;
If this is your right media propaganda, you really need to move to North Korea to find solace...but yes they actually maybe employ some people who are not far left..
The Australian might be the only non globalist news item in this country and I even doubt it.


----------



## Humid (6 March 2020)

sptrawler said:


> NAB listened to Ken Henry also.
> 
> Australia at the time was going through the biggest construction boom in history, we had more 457 workers than Australian workers, Kev just couldnt help himself.
> He doesnt seem to have changed much either.
> Anyway it was what it was, now we just have to see if Morrison can stuff it up as well.



The only trouble with booms is not being prepared for them,you need to train people beforehand not import them crying you can't find suitable staff due to the fact no one bother to invest in them in the first place
I did my apprenticeship through a world class Tafe system that seemed to work but some people who probably never did a days work in their life thought they knew better


----------



## sptrawler (6 March 2020)

Humid said:


> The only trouble with booms is not being prepared for them,you need to train people beforehand not import them crying you can't find suitable staff due to the fact no one bother to invest in them in the first place
> I did my apprenticeship through a world class Tafe system that seemed to work but some people who probably never did a days work in their life thought they knew better



I dont disagree with that, competency standards were great for pay rises, but crap for tafe and quality training.


----------



## Humid (6 March 2020)

qldfrog said:


> funny thing is that news limited is seen as right by labour people here who obviously do not read watch it, While not just pure leftist and an absolute click bait crap, it is overall something which would be on the left of the US democrats at least during the Clinton Obama time:
> open news.com.au  today
> an ugly picture of Trump a la abc..bashing him.....
> **** **** for pages  *** for s h i t  or utter crap
> ...




If the media infects enough people to normalise things like penalty rates are the reason businesses aren’t performing as well as they could you getting the head nodders agreeing isn’t a very left policy is it 
This isn’t about news it’s about perception to land killer blows


----------



## basilio (7 March 2020)

Great story summarising the sports rorts affair and the need for a Federal ICAC. 

*Sports rorts changes everything. It's time for a federal Icac *
Katharine Murphy
If we care about integrity in government, the Coalition must be held accountable for the grants saga

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...hanges-everything-its-time-for-a-federal-icac


----------



## Tink (7 March 2020)




----------



## moXJO (7 March 2020)

Humid said:


> The only trouble with booms is not being prepared for them,you need to train people beforehand not import them crying you can't find suitable staff due to the fact no one bother to invest in them in the first place
> I did my apprenticeship through a world class Tafe system that seemed to work but some people who probably never did a days work in their life thought they knew better



It's hard to learn anything in this country. I wouldn't have ever said we had a first class education system. Many other countries do it better with less. Gillard spent more and the nation became dumber.  I don't support libs gutting out tafe either.


----------



## SirRumpole (7 March 2020)

moXJO said:


> It's hard to learn anything in this country. I wouldn't have ever said we had a first class education system. Many other countries do it better with less. Gillard spent more and the nation became dumber.  I don't support libs gutting out tafe either.




TAFE was gutted because the Libs thought it was only for the "lower classes", ie Labor voters.

One of the problems in my view is the lowering of uni entry standards for teachers and teaching of STEM subjects by teachers not equipped to do it. STEM teachers should have a degree in Maths or Science, not an Arts degree, and there should be specialised STEM high schools so only students interested in those subjects will go to.


----------



## moXJO (7 March 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> TAFE was gutted because the Libs thought it was only for the "lower classes", ie Labor voters.
> 
> One of the problems in my view is the lowering of uni entry standards for teachers and teaching of STEM subjects by teachers not equipped to do it. STEM teachers should have a degree in Maths or Science, not an Arts degree, and there should be specialised STEM high schools so only students interested in those subjects will go to.



I went under labor and it was crap then. The apprenticeship model is flawed, but I think they dumbed it down now.

Unis are just Chinese degree factories. They must be hurting with the travel ban.

Public schools have teachers not interested in teaching. There are a whole bunch of younger teachers that are fantastic. I'd fire all the non performers just doing time and install fresh blood.


----------



## Smurf1976 (7 March 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> there should be specialised STEM high schools so only students interested in those subjects will go to.




It has definite downsides, retention rate mainly given the need to go to a physically separate school for those two years, but I do see benefits in the approach historically taken in Tasmania in that regard.

There are no "compulsory" subjects in year 11 and 12, literally every subject is optional. It is thus entirely possible for someone to skew their education heavily in a particular direction with a view to specific studies at uni, TAFE or pursuing a particular career.

Going back quite some time but from memory my time in those two years was spent doing chemistry, physics, maths, drafting, automotive, metal fabrication, public speaking, electronics, various computer related things. 

In hindsight yes I chose the right subjects. Some of what we did back then, in physics and in the metalwork shop, would almost certainly be deemed far too dangerous these days though. Not so much real danger but all the liability stuff that's around these days so I doubt it's still the same.


----------



## Humid (7 March 2020)

moXJO said:


> I went under labor and it was crap then. The apprenticeship model is flawed, but I think they dumbed it down now.
> 
> Unis are just Chinese degree factories. They must be hurting with the travel ban.
> 
> Public schools have teachers not interested in teaching. There are a whole bunch of younger teachers that are fantastic. I'd fire all the non performers just doing time and install fresh blood.




So your a crap tradesmen......deal with it


----------



## moXJO (7 March 2020)

Humid said:


> So your a crap tradesmen......deal with it



And I don't come cheap.


----------



## Logique (11 March 2020)

The government could buy Japanese or French nuclear submarines off-the-shelf for ~$4 Billion each.  No, says the Morrison Government, instead convert the French subs to diesel, for a kings ransom.

Noisy, dangerous museum pieces, if they are ever delivered. A death trap for the sailors.

And there goes $225 Billion dollars (whole of life). That would buy a lot of hospitals and schools. Truly obscene frittering away of the national wealth.

_Submarines for Australia _
(Founder: Gary Johnston - owner of Jaycar Electronics)
https://submarinesforaustralia.com.au/
_..Australia’s Future Submarine (FSM) project is extravagantly expensive, highly risky and, in an era of heightened tensions in the Indo Pacific, could compromise the future defence of Australia...
..EXCESSIVE USE OF PUBLIC FUNDS
The already excessive cost has blown out by 60% before even a preliminary design has been produced and at $80bn for design and construction and $225bn for total through life cost the submarines are outlandishly expensive._


----------



## SirRumpole (11 March 2020)

Logique said:


> The government could buy Japanese or French nuclear submarines off-the-shelf for ~$4 Billion each.  No, says the Morrison Government, instead convert the French subs to diesel, for a kings ransom.
> 
> Noisy, dangerous museum pieces, if they are ever delivered. A death trap for the sailors.
> 
> ...




We should look at drone submarines (maybe nuclear powered). Cheaper and less dangerous. No oxygen required.


----------



## SirRumpole (11 March 2020)

I just noticed that the National Press Club will be discussing this very issue today. 

12:30 ABC1.


----------



## SirRumpole (11 March 2020)

Logique said:


> The government could buy Japanese or French nuclear submarines off-the-shelf for ~$4 Billion each.  No, says the Morrison Government, instead convert the French subs to diesel, for a kings ransom.
> 
> Noisy, dangerous museum pieces, if they are ever delivered. A death trap for the sailors.
> 
> ...




I cling to the hope that the published specs (diesel, no no air breathing propulsion, lead acid batteries) are just a front to confuse potential adversaries and when they finally come out they will have all the good stuff.

Would our military and government be so devious ? Let's hope so.


----------



## macca (11 March 2020)

Logique said:


> The government could buy Japanese or French nuclear submarines off-the-shelf for ~$4 Billion each.  No, says the Morrison Government, instead convert the French subs to diesel, for a kings ransom.
> 
> Noisy, dangerous museum pieces, if they are ever delivered. A death trap for the sailors.
> 
> ...




I agree that it is a really, really, really stupid purchase but it was Mr Trumble who decided to buy some seats in SA not Scomo

The whole deal is beyond stupid, just shows how incompetent Turnbull was


----------



## SirRumpole (11 March 2020)

macca said:


> I agree that it is a really, really, really stupid purchase but it was Mr Trumble who decided to buy some seats in SA not Scomo
> 
> The whole deal is beyond stupid, just shows how incompetent Turnbull was




Morrison would have been in the Cabinet at the time.

Collective responsibility.


----------



## PZ99 (11 March 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Shows how fickle the media is, they have been calling for stimulus for the last 6 months, now that the Government is talking about it. The media is saying it is a shameless about face, I guess they have to write something.
> As long as it is focused on sensible well thought out infrastructure it will be fine IMO, if it is just thrown out the back of a ute, they will be hammered as they should be.
> Just my opinion.
> https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/stimulus-is-only-a-matter-of-time-20200302-p5465q.html



A stimulus package whilst banning cash payments over $10k. Should be fun


----------



## sptrawler (11 March 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Morrison would have been in the Cabinet at the time.
> 
> Collective responsibility.



Trying to supply jobs, with dodgy projects, usually ends in tears.
How many times have we seen it?
In W.A Muja A/B,  Government gives it to private sector, to increase competition in the market. Government underwrites new companies refurbishment, new company goes broke, Government gets power Station back and $300m debt to go with it.


----------



## sptrawler (11 March 2020)

PZ99 said:


> A stimulus package whilst banning cash payments over $10k. Should be fun



Funnily enough I was taking to someone who partakes in smoking funny substances, and asked how do you pay for it, was told they all take tap and go.


----------



## basilio (11 March 2020)

Be interesting to see what  ScoMo does to keep the economy and people and businesses alive  over the next 6-8 months.

Interesting article offer the  suggestions and rationale of  6 different economists. Covers much of the ground ASF posters have suggested.

* Experts on how coronavirus will wallop Australia's economy – and what the government must do *
Economists say a recession is now nearly inevitable. The only question is how long it will last
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...alias-economy-and-what-the-government-must-do


----------



## orr (12 March 2020)

Greg Hunt can't tell us the number of people that will die in Australia due to the virus..'_it's an inexact science' _.... very useful phrase for someone like hunt..
But if one member of Morrisons (piss poor) government goes 'toes up', so goes it's  majority... That's an exact science...maths.
What are the odds?
Can cut bothways of course... but
Ahh ...imagine the sympathy vote for for say someone like  say Gussy Taylor... It would warm the  cockles of cold Goulburn mid winter. The bleak streets deserted but for a sole Tesla driver with the over sized air filtration system at the supercharger quickly plugging in; And keeping his energy costs down...

And all that Pentecostal blathering in close proximity to each other... Hallelujah... praise god and pass the surgical masks...


----------



## sptrawler (12 March 2020)

orr said:


> Greg Hunt can't tell us the number of people that will die in Australia due to the virus..'_it's an inexact science' _.... very useful phrase for someone like hunt..
> But if one member of Morrisons (piss poor) government goes 'toes up', so goes it's  majority... That's an exact science...maths.
> What are the odds?
> Can cut bothways of course... but
> ...



Not wanting to get in a slanging match, but how do you think we would be faring now, if Labor had got in and smashed established home values, and removed franking credits for self funded retirees, what the others were offering wasnt exactly brilliant. A lot of people would be in negative equity and self funded would be queuing up for a pension.
Just my opinion, but neither Party is lighting up my light, they are all running around in ever decreasing circles IMO.
Australia needs to take a long look at itself and find out were the hell it all went wrong, then work out a way to fix it, pandering to China and everyone else is not working.
Just my opinion.


----------



## qldfrog (12 March 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> We should look at drone submarines (maybe nuclear powered). Cheaper and less dangerous. No oxygen required.



fully agreed submarines of any kind are the cavalry in 1940's war..So obsolete it is scary anyone in command could even think about buying some in 2020


----------



## sptrawler (12 March 2020)

qldfrog said:


> fully agreed submarines of any kind are the cavalry in 1940's war..So obsolete it is scary anyone in command could even think about buying some in 2020



Absolutely how many surface to surface, surface to air mobile missile batteries would they buy? AWAC aircraft, with state of the art sonar scanning?


----------



## Smurf1976 (12 March 2020)

sptrawler said:


> In W.A Muja A/B



And as I’m sure you’re well aware there’s one aspect of it which tops all others.

Regardless of what it cost or who owns it, if you’re going to have a power station then it should at least generate electricity.

Failing to do much of that makes it not just expensive but also rather pointless.


----------



## sptrawler (12 March 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> And as I’m sure you’re well aware there’s one aspect of it which tops all others.
> 
> Regardless of what it cost or who owns it, if you’re going to have a power station then it should at least generate electricity.
> 
> Failing to do much of that makes it not just expensive but also rather pointless.



It was a brain fart from beginning to end, all in the name of getting private generators into the system, which in reality would have been a mess now anyway. 
It was just another politically driven mess, the worst thing Barnett did by far.


----------



## SirRumpole (12 March 2020)

So what do we think of the so called "stimulus" ? 

If $750 for Newstarters and pensioners doesn't do the trick, what then ?

The gov. is obviously hoping the covid problem will be short lived, otherwise they (we ) will have to shell out again.


----------



## sptrawler (12 March 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> So what do we think of the so called "stimulus" ?
> 
> If $750 for Newstarters and pensioners doesn't do the trick, what then ?
> 
> The gov. is obviously hoping the covid problem will be short lived, otherwise they (we ) will have to shell out again.



The one thing in Australias favour is, we dont live on top of each other and we have a large personal space, so hopefully it will reduce person to person transfer.
The Government as someone else said, is probably keeping some back.


----------



## SirRumpole (12 March 2020)

sptrawler said:


> The one thing in Australias favour is, we dont live on top of each other and we have a large personal space, so hopefully it will reduce person to person transfer.
> The Government as someone else said, is probably keeping some back.




We also don't have porous borders like Europe, so I for once agree with the Don to limit visits from there.

I think that will be next on the list for us, after the AGP.


----------



## orr (13 March 2020)

Schmo is encouraging thousands to clump together at football matchs over the weekend ...
In these circumstances; Simply put the man is an Idiot.

Oh and trawler on your question; To placate the greedy few old and older people we didn't get, dental care for old people, all cancer treatment on the medicare, a far better likely hood of education outcomes and a government that would have payed more attention to 23 retired Emergency Cheifs...
No what we got was a pack of shills for the fossil fuel industry.


----------



## PZ99 (13 March 2020)

What's the bet that ScoMo will self isolate in Hawaii ?


----------



## qldfrog (13 March 2020)

PZ99 said:


> What's the bet that ScoMo will self isolate in Hawaii ?



Cheap. 
But Tom Hanks took his seat in the last Virgin plane to the US ....


----------



## PZ99 (13 March 2020)

King Island is even cheaper - they probably don't even know it's happening


----------



## Humid (19 March 2020)

On Wednesday, the prime minister delivered a blunt message to Australians in response to the mass panic buying sparked by the coronavirus.

“It is not sensible, it is not helpful and, I’ve got to say, it has been one of the most disappointing things I have seen in Australian behaviour in response to this crisis,” Scott Morrison told reporters in Canberra on Wednesday.

More disappointing than sports rorts Scummo
Both pretty selfish actions for survival


----------



## sptrawler (20 March 2020)

It seems as though there is a more measured approach to stimulus this time, than a back of the napkin, at the pub with undies on his head Conroy. 
https://www.theage.com.au/politics/...rough-coronavirus-crisis-20200320-p54cbx.html
But the $250k fifo and feet up on the verandah watching the left break and the sun go down crew, probably don't give a ratz anyway.
Lucky FW Barny built the hospitals you may need.


----------



## Humid (21 March 2020)

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa...huge-cost-ng-98ae5e2159831466da379146609463fd

Read it slowly Homer


----------



## IFocus (21 March 2020)

sptrawler said:


> It seems as though there is a more measured approach to stimulus this time, than a back of the napkin, at the pub with undies on his head Conroy.
> https://www.theage.com.au/politics/...rough-coronavirus-crisis-20200320-p54cbx.html
> But the $250k fifo and feet up on the verandah watching the left break and the sun go down crew, probably don't give a ratz anyway.
> Lucky FW Barny built the hospitals you may need.




Measured approach with changes days after the initial announcements..........in fact every announcement.

One thing about the GFC was you always felt the government were going to throw the kitchen sink at the problem I don't feel that with this government.

They strike me as under whelming and rabbits caught in the spotlight.

It continually seems they have to wait until someone else moves before they act, they seem to be still playing the political optics game.


----------



## sptrawler (21 March 2020)

Humid said:


> https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa...huge-cost-ng-98ae5e2159831466da379146609463fd
> 
> Read it slowly Homer



Were you on site, it would explain the cost blowouts.


----------



## Humid (21 March 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Were you on site, it would explain the cost blowouts.




More delays more pays is the catch cry


----------



## basilio (21 March 2020)

Great story in The Guardian reflecting on how quickly our economic and political world has changed in less than 4 weeks.
On Feb 26th  Treasurer Josh Frydenberg ridiculed in Parliament  the Labour Shadow Treasurer who proposed a "well being" budget.   Basically a budget that was going to protect people as well as the economy as the CORID 19 virus was unfolding.

Where are we now ? Who is working 26 hours a day to somehow construct a way that will save the whole Australian community and economy collapsing ?

It is not a nasty article. But it does put current events  into perspective.

* Remember Josh Frydenberg scoffing at a 'wellbeing budget'? He's not laughing any more *
Katharine Murphy
Forget ‘back in black’, the treasurer is now working around the clock to keep Australians alive

It feels like a century ago now, a vignette from another life. But wedged between the catastrophic bushfires of the summer and the looming pandemic was a moment in the parliament when Josh Frydenberg really thought he was on a winner.

Before we get to our memorable moment in late February, some minor scene setting. The treasurer has a rolling shtick with his opposite number, Jim Chalmers, where he likes to frame the shadow treasurer as a noob barely out of short pants. Consider this niggling behaviour a display of dominance hierarchy.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-a-wellbeing-budget-hes-not-laughing-any-more


----------



## basilio (22 March 2020)

Just saw ScoMo's statement on the ABC.
Classy and statesman like.  Basically stay at home folks.
The medical advice would be that we are where Italy was 2 weeks ago.  If we don't take drastic action to stifle the spread of COVID19  we too could be looking at hundreds of people a day dying from the virus by Mid April.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03...us-live-updates-covid-19-latest-news/12078506


----------



## IFocus (22 March 2020)

Finally the government found the kitchen sink, can they act quick enough?


----------



## PZ99 (23 March 2020)

They've nearly doubled the dole for 6 months 

Given the past theories thrown around about the stimulus package designed to make Rudd more popular one can assume ScoMo is looking for another 6 terms in office... 

_Here's your key Mr Nesian _


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...e-as-part-of-huge-coronavirus-welfare-package

Jobseekers will get a $550 boost to their fortnightly welfare payments for six months in one of the largest increases to social security benefits in Australia’s history, as the government seeks to shield the unemployed ahead of a looming recession.

In a press conference at Parliament House on Sunday, the prime minister, Scott Morrison, said the changes, which effectively double the rate of Jobseeker Payment, reflected a desire to cushion those “who will be feeling the first blows of the economic impact from the coronavirus”.

“We will be supercharging the safety net,” Morrison said. “We will be supporting the most vulnerable to the impacts of the crisis.”

The decision dramatically reverses the Coalition’s fierce, long-held opposition to an increase in the Newstart payment, which put it at odds with former prime minister John Howard and the business community.

Instead, the Morrison government has instituted what one welfare expert called the largest-ever boost to benefits in Australia, committing to spend $14bn over six months on what it is calling a temporary “coronavirus supplement”.

The mammoth but “time limited” increase to unemployment benefits far exceeds the most recent call from welfare groups for a permanent, $95- a-week boost to the dole, worth $4bn a year.

Under sweeping changes to the welfare system, the government will also expand access to unemployment benefits by waiving the liquid assets waiting test, which will allow people to access income support without whittling down their savings. Prospective welfare recipients will no longer need to attend a Centrelink office to complete their claim, and the application process will be streamlined.


----------



## chiff (23 March 2020)

PZ99 said:


> They've nearly doubled the dole for 6 months
> 
> Given the past theories thrown around about the stimulus package designed to make Rudd more popular one can assume ScoMo is looking for another 6 terms in office...
> 
> ...



Only a couple of months ago it was reported that Senator Ruston,minister for "social security" ,said flippantly when asked about an increase to Newstart said that they would only spend it on drugs and alcohol.


----------



## SirRumpole (23 March 2020)

chiff said:


> Only a couple of months ago it was reported that Senator Ruston,minister for "social security" ,said flippantly when asked about an increase to Newstart said that they would only spend it on drugs and alcohol.




Didn't you see the tv coverage of grog shops being raided ?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ohol-PM-confirms-liquor-stores-stay-OPEN.html


----------



## sptrawler (23 March 2020)

chiff said:


> Only a couple of months ago it was reported that Senator Ruston,minister for "social security" ,said flippantly when asked about an increase to Newstart said that they would only spend it on drugs and alcohol.



Well then the good thing about the increased payment will be, it will show them how much extra alcohol and drugs they could afford, if they worked.
The problem will be IMO, after this is over the competition for jobs, will be unbelievable.
I remember going for a job in the 1982 recession, a crappy job in a two bit company with four employees, 175 interviewed for the job.
Some people are in for the shock of their lives.IMO


----------



## basilio (23 March 2020)

Have to say I would be really concerned about rampant increases in drinking in the next weeks/months.
I think the decision to underpin the economic survival of people with the increase social security is excellent. But as a separate issue people alone at home frightened and/or upset with a full  beer fridge and enough money to keep it full is not a good combination.

I can see alcohol consumption skyrocketng. I can see a whole host of  attendant social problems coming off that.  I think this has to be jumped on very quickly for everyone's sake.


----------



## sptrawler (23 March 2020)

I wonder if there will be any relief for self funded retirees under pension age? Company dividends will be slashed, so their income will be radically affected, meanwhile they have probably lost 40% of their nest egg.
Oh well, at least they may get a bit back from franking credits.


----------



## Humid (23 March 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I wonder if there will be any relief for self funded retirees under pension age? Company dividends will be slashed, so their income will be radically affected, meanwhile they have probably lost 40% of their nest egg.
> Oh well, at least they may get a bit back from franking credits.




A job like the rest of us


----------



## sptrawler (23 March 2020)

Humid said:


> A job like the rest of us



Can't wait untill you get too many k's on the clock.
But you do epitomise the new generation of Labor.


----------



## Humid (23 March 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Well then the good thing about the increased payment will be, it will show them how much extra alcohol and drugs they could afford, if they worked.
> The problem will be IMO, after this is over the competition for jobs, will be unbelievable.
> I remember going for a job in the 1982 recession, a crappy job in a two bit company with four employees, 175 interviewed for the job.
> Some people are in for the shock of their lives.IMO




You come out with a comment like this!!!
Not at retirement age and looking for a handout
Tell me why you shouldn’t look for a job


----------



## sptrawler (23 March 2020)

Humid said:


> You come out with a comment like this!!!
> Not at retirement age and looking for a handout
> Tell me why you shouldn’t look for a job



So I'm 65 in 6 months, have two replaced knees a replaced hip and can't use my right hand because it is disfigured with arthritis, am self funded from savings when I was PAYG wages worker. You say just get a job, I wish.

I'm not looking for a handout, just looking to get the tax that I shouldn't have paid back, in the Government started tax free superannuation scheme. I'm not asking for any more, or less than those who are in an Industry super fund get.
Like I said, you fit right in with the new Labor ethos.


----------



## SirRumpole (23 March 2020)

Humid said:


> Tell me why you shouldn’t look for a job




Because there won't be any ?


----------



## Humid (23 March 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Because there won't be any ?




It’s called Newstart welcome to the world


----------



## SirRumpole (23 March 2020)

Humid said:


> It’s called Newstart welcome to the world




It's still a handout.


----------



## Humid (23 March 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> It's still a handout.



Complete with hurdles


----------



## basilio (23 March 2020)

I can sympathize  with SP's position. This crash will seriously affect his savings, income and future. Just obvious.  No doubt there will be millions of similar people affected.

IMV within a few months the crash of markets as well as the crash in economic activity will affect all people depending on investment income. That will include pension funds, trusts, super funds.   So maybe now is the time to live simply and be appreciative of what we have.


----------



## basilio (23 March 2020)

Excellent overview of current process for assisting people thrown out of work.
Well worth a read.

*What is the Coronavirus Supplement from Centrelink, am I eligible and when does it start?*
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03...-payment-what-is-it-and-how-to-apply/12080326

,
*Are small business owners and casual workers eligible?*
Yes — *if they suddenly find themselves earning less than $1,075 a fortnight*.

....Treasurer Josh Frydenberg said the Government would ensure people who had their business closed, saw customers disappear, or had casual shifts cut could access the Coronavirus Supplement.

"We have waived the assets tests and waived the waiting period but there is still the income test so if you earn $1,075 a fortnight you will get that full $550 Coronavirus Supplement," Mr Frydenberg said.

"This is good news for a sole trader who is still in work but has seen the income reduce.

"If you are a casual and you still have some hours but your income has fallen below that $1,075 a fortnight you will get the supplement."


----------



## sptrawler (23 March 2020)

basilio said:


> I can sympathize  with SP's position. This crash will seriously affect his savings, income and future. Just obvious.  No doubt there will be millions of similar people affected.
> 
> IMV within a few months the crash of markets as well as the crash in economic activity will affect all people depending on investment income. That will include pension funds, trusts, super funds.   So maybe now is the time to live simply and be appreciative of what we have.



Thanks for that Bas, I'm heavily into the banks for the dividend, and am currently down 45%. So in dollar terms about $400k, so I now qualify for the pension, but am two years away.
But hey at least I have some left ATM, I've been through hard times before and I think they will come back.
But that's life, it could be worse, I could be laying on my back in an Italian hospital.
Anyway keep safe everyone, look after yourselves and don't forget you can't be in a better place than Australia.


----------



## PZ99 (23 March 2020)

The banks will come back no question. I keep topping up a little bit here and there.


----------



## IFocus (23 March 2020)

Same boat as you SP we wont get a cracker mainly because we dont deserve it (old Labor).


----------



## Humid (23 March 2020)

I banged in 100k into super not long back.....not to sure if that was one of brightest decisions


----------



## Humid (23 March 2020)

On one hand scummo is chastising young people for their behaviour on social distancing and then sending kids to school 
Very mixed message needs to put his marketing hat back on


----------



## sptrawler (23 March 2020)

Humid said:


> It’s called Newstart welcome to the world



We wont qualify, because we have the self funded pension money, welcome to the savers world.


----------



## sptrawler (23 March 2020)

IFocus said:


> Same boat as you SP we wont get a cracker mainly because we dont deserve it (old Labor).



Absolutely IFocus, non are so worthy as those who piss it up, good lesson for the young.
The thing is, you are probably like me and can live on the smell of an oily rag if you have to.


----------



## sptrawler (23 March 2020)

Humid said:


> I banged in 100k into super not long back.....not to sure if that was one of brightest decisions



You may live to regret it.


----------



## Humid (23 March 2020)

At the time it was earning 1.5%in the bank
Cbus you can go to cash on the app
Takes 2business days to do
I did it a while back after reading it here
So I'm down about 10%


----------



## sptrawler (23 March 2020)

Humid said:


> At the time it was earning 1.5%in the bank
> Cbus you can go to cash on the app
> Takes 2business days to do
> I did it a while back after reading it here
> So I'm down about 10%



That's a good outcome, I rely on dividends, so hopefully they aren't hit out of the ballpark.
If they are I will have to draw down on the cash component. se la vie


----------



## Humid (23 March 2020)

I fly out in a few days
Apparently bhp have chartered flight s for distancing


----------



## sptrawler (23 March 2020)

Humid said:


> I fly out in a few days
> Apparently bhp have chartered flight s for distancing



I heard, if the idigenous see workers not complying with distance requirements, there will be trouble.


----------



## Humid (23 March 2020)

sptrawler said:


> That's a good outcome, I rely on dividends, so hopefully they aren't hit out of the ballpark.
> If they are I will have to draw down on the cash component. se la vie



Yeah basically I'm in cash because I have no idea what to do with it
Good divi stocks will come back
You've been frugal before
Peaks and troughs man


----------



## sptrawler (23 March 2020)

Humid said:


> Yeah basically I'm in cash because I have no idea what to do with it
> Good divi stocks will come back
> You've been frugal before
> Peaks and troughs man



Yes it is no big deal, been through it before, becomes a distant memory in 10 years.
ATM it is more important not to get it, IMO if you miss it this time round there will be a vaccine, before it comes around again.
The real issue is those that get it, get to keep it forever, it wont matter when you're young and healthy.
Just my opinion.


----------



## Humid (23 March 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I heard, if the idigenous see workers not complying with distance requirements, there will be trouble.




We won’t be leaving camp only to go to work
Be served meals on disposable plates and cutlery and pre packed cribs breakfast in your rooo
M picked up the night before with crib
Cars only 50% full
I foresee a cockshow of a shutdown


----------



## sptrawler (23 March 2020)

Humid said:


> We won’t be leaving camp only to go to work
> Be served meals on disposable plates and cutlery and pre packed cribs breakfast in your rooo
> M picked up the night before with crib
> Cars only 50% full
> I foresee a cockshow of a shutdown



From what I heard, some are looking for any opportunity, to chuck everyone off.


----------



## Smurf1976 (23 March 2020)

basilio said:


> I can sympathize with SP's position. This crash will seriously affect his savings, income and future. Just obvious. No doubt there will be millions of similar people affected.



Yep - pretty much everyone is going to lose in some way even if the details aren't yet obvious.


----------



## Humid (23 March 2020)

These shuts are critical for reliability
Of their Loadout machinery


----------



## sptrawler (23 March 2020)

Humid said:


> These shuts are critical for reliability
> Of their Loadout machinery



BHP wants everything to keep going, they are not the ones who have a problem, the indigenous are worried about the virus getting into their population. Which is understandable.


----------



## moXJO (23 March 2020)

I had some mates chastised for not keeping the required distance apart. One was helping  hold something up while the other one fixed it off.
Going to be a bloody headache on sites.


----------



## basilio (23 March 2020)

Really worth reading this overview of how our political parties are coping with this crisis.

* Our politicians scramble for hope as Australia, one of the most gregarious nations on earth, folds in on itself *
Katharine Murphy
This pandemic has stolen their certainty, and yet they must lead. They are called to make decisions guided by expertise that is contested minute by minute

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...mble-for-hope-as-australia-folds-in-on-itself


----------



## Smurf1976 (23 March 2020)

moXJO said:


> I had some mates chastised for not keeping the required distance apart. One was helping hold something up while the other one fixed it off.
> Going to be a bloody headache on sites.



Thinking of all work tasks I've ever done, there's plenty of situations where keeping 1.5m distance in practice means you've either halved the workforce, it's now one person working in the box not two, or you're simply unable to do the job because you need two or more people simple as that.

There's plenty of things in industry, building sites and so on where in practice you can't avoid very close contact with other workers due to the nature of the task and that something needs two hands to hold it whilst the other one tightens the bolts, thus meaning you need two people in very close proximity to each other, or it needs two people to pick it up or whatever. Lots of things like that.


----------



## SirRumpole (24 March 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Thinking of all work tasks I've ever done, there's plenty of situations where keeping 1.5m distance in practice means you've either halved the workforce, it's now one person working in the box not two, or you're simply unable to do the job because you need two or more people simple as that.
> 
> There's plenty of things in industry, building sites and so on where in practice you can't avoid very close contact with other workers due to the nature of the task and that something needs two hands to hold it whilst the other one tightens the bolts, thus meaning you need two people in very close proximity to each other, or it needs two people to pick it up or whatever. Lots of things like that.




In that case, all the people doing the job should be issued with masks.


----------



## sptrawler (24 March 2020)

Earlier in the thread IFocus posted a graph on welfare costs, I noticed the NDIS was growing alarmingly fast, this sort of behaviour needs to be nipped in the bud. It is a great thing NDIS but it will need to be closely watched IMO. Like all Government funded schemes, there is always those who will develop their own scheme.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...-funded-lavish-lifestyle-20200323-p54cy0.html
From the article:
A Sydney couple have pleaded guilty to defrauding the National Disability Insurance Scheme of $1.5 million through a criminal syndicate that earned some members upwards of $50,000 a day.

Alaedine Rifai, 41, and his partner Amal Hilmi, 36, were arrested in May last year for their role in the group, which netted the money by hiding behind registered NDIS service providers for people supported by government-subsidised disability plans.
Investigators at the time said more than 70 people disability plans were defrauded by the syndicate, which sat behind three registered NDIS providers: Universal Group Australia, Reliance Disability Services and United Mission.

Mr Rifai was the sole director and secretary of Universal Group Australia, a kitchen joinery business.
The three organisations individually offered nursing, cleaning, transport and home fit-out services to people supported by government-subsidised disability plans.

Investigators found Mr Rifai and Ms Hilmi played a key role in the syndicate, which lodged over-inflated invoices for services and falsely drew from the victims' disability plans so that the victims were unable to make further claims.

In other examples, they found services were either delivered in part only, or not at all.


----------



## IFocus (24 March 2020)




----------



## sptrawler (24 March 2020)

IFocus said:


> View attachment 101644



By the sounds of it Scott will have to follow someone else, the word is Jacinda isn't doing too well in the the run up to the election.
Don't forget Morrison has still got the go to Labor solution if things get real bad, he can get the unemployed, to complete Kevin Rudd's pink batt programme for him.


----------



## orr (26 March 2020)

Schmo dragged kicking and screaming to the reality that expert opinion  and considered responce is the way to make decisions.
The timing is exquisit; One of the most incompetent Executive Cabinet  in our history and This... 
Don't worry it will only be a temporary respite till he defaults back to hollow meaningless blather,pork barreling,  outright deception, victim blaming, obfuscation, and lies. 
Feel strengthened by this Australia; We'll be back to normal.


----------



## chiff (26 March 2020)

My kingdom for a decent sovereign wealth fund! Maybe a lot of things will be looked at differently after this debacle.


----------



## dutchie (30 March 2020)

Good to see Govt. has applied a $0 threshold for any foreign buyers wishing to acquire Australian assets.


----------



## orr (1 April 2020)

chiff said:


> My kingdom for a decent sovereign wealth fund! Maybe a lot of things will be looked at differently after this debacle.




I'm certainly hoping for it chiff...
It's the kingdom of god that Schmo's got us lined up for unfortunately... I mean; for christs sake what is someone supposed to make of that?
Now to Sovereign Theft.  
Bernard Collaery explains succinctly what has happened to the Helium of the Timor Sea in his book 'Oil Under Troubled Water'. The out right theft of $12-22 Billion of Australian's   assets by Conco and Woodside. You Australia have and will receive *Nothing*... Facilitated by a conga line of Government Ministers...

So to your point Sir.  And a Federal ICAC... *NOW
*
And Dutchie my dear benighted child, wake up and smell the coffee, they're getting it for nothing already.


----------



## basilio (2 April 2020)

*The Role of Parliament in a crisis*

Shadow health minister *Chris Bowen *has been asked by the ABC’s *Patricia Karvelas *about why Labour believes a Senate committee of a joint select committee should be established to scrutinise the government’s Covid-19 response. Bowen says:

_More parliamentary oversight is unquestionably a good thing. We are talking about billions of dollars, and lives. It makes eminent sense to have more scrutiny, more accountability and more transparency through whatever mechanisms. 

The government has rightly, as the executive, a lot of powers here. But they’re accountable to the people through the parliament. We’ll talk to the crossbenchers in the House and the Senate. There’s already been some of those discussions._

Bowen is asked if this demonstrates a break from bipartisanship. Does Labor believe the government is failing? Bowen replies:

_*No. Bipartisanship does not mean being silent. Bipartisanship does not mean walking away from parliamentary accountability. It means giving the government support for everything they want to do and appropriately as the opposition, calling for more, calling for accountability and transparency and more action.* That’s what we’ve been doing. A breakdown in bipartisanship would be refusing to cooperate with passing legislation or criticising actions they’re taking. What we are doing is constructively suggesting what more could and should be done.

We think a parliament should be sitting and have been very cooperative in obviously coming up with ways where the parliament can sit more safely, with few staff and all those arrangements. But that doesn’t mean we think the parliament should shut up shop.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...d-qld-tas-act-sa-wa-nt-covid19-latest-updates_


----------



## chiff (2 April 2020)

I wonder whether the threat of civil unrest was considered by the Morrison government?The generous response to this crisis does not match their pre-pandemic views.
I must reread what happened during and after the great depression.There was civil unrest in various countries then..


----------



## Humid (3 April 2020)

Where’s Peter Dutton?


----------



## moXJO (3 April 2020)

Humid said:


> Where’s Peter Dutton?



Masturbating 24/7 after they achieved a police state.


----------



## IFocus (5 April 2020)

Mo I often smile after reading your posts cheers.


----------



## sptrawler (5 April 2020)

moXJO said:


> Masturbating 24/7 after they achieved a police state.



On the subject of policing, the brother in law went to go out the bush to cut some wood, the police turned him back.
So they are difinitly enforcing the exclusion zones in W.A.


----------



## SirRumpole (5 April 2020)

sptrawler said:


> On the subject of policing, the brother in law went to go out the bush to cut some wood, the police turned him back.
> So they are difinitly enforcing the exclusion zones in W.A.




They should ban children from supermarkets unless there is a good reason for them to be there.


----------



## Humid (5 April 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> They should ban children from supermarkets unless there is a good reason for them to be there.




Permanent


----------



## moXJO (6 April 2020)

IFocus said:


> Mo I often smile after reading your posts cheers.



I was placed on several government watchlists after that post.


----------



## moXJO (6 April 2020)

I had little faith in the libs. But they seem to be getting through this better then I expected. 
However I do think they have snuck a few measures through that will erode our freedoms even more.

I feel sorry for those on study visas. I don't think people realize how tough they have it here, how much they pay to government and what they have to do to stay here.

Labor is showing they are onboard with treating us like crap. They tried to keep partners separated in Vic but had to quickly reverse.
I do think they are starting to worry about civil unrest.


----------



## orr (13 April 2020)

Gussy Gate Taylor??? Doing fine work one might think; priming the ventilator among other life support  accessories  that will be necessary to the dinosaur fuel interests  this  Great Country of ours, so to keep them in the plushly appointed surrounds to which they are so familiar...
The sooner we help blacken the skys of the world again, The sooner the lungs of the poor of the planet will accommodate efficaciously the plagues next to come...


----------



## sptrawler (16 April 2020)

Turnbull's memoirs come out today, funny how things come back to haunt people.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...nbull-kevin-rudd-tony-abbott-miserable-ghosts
From the article:
Malcolm Turnbull has described former prime ministers Tony Abbott and Kevin Rudd as “miserable ghosts” while delivering a brutal assessment of the federal government.
Turnbull said he would not be a “trappist monk” now he was out of parliament, but it was important not to be driven by hate.

“When you stop being prime minister, that’s it,” he said. “There is no way I’d be hanging around like embittered Kevin Rudd or Tony Abbott. Seriously, these people are like, sort of miserable, miserable ghosts.”


----------



## PZ99 (16 April 2020)

He's unloading on ScoMo today: Rudd style leaker apparently. Rats in a barrel...



Spoiler



Prime Minister Scott Morrison has been blamed for media leaks that weakened the government during high-stakes cabinet debates on tax reform, in an explosive claim from his predecessor Malcolm Turnbull.

Mr Turnbull says the tactics infuriated ministers to the point where he thought Mr Morrison would offer to resign as treasurer after an especially damaging media leak about superannuation and negative gearing.

In a new memoir that lifts the lid on the cabinet tensions, Mr Turnbull writes that Finance Minister Mathias Cormann tried to shut Mr Morrison out of some of the talks on tax in order to prevent the details being leaked.

Mr Turnbull wondered whether Mr Morrison was “out of his depth” and told a cabinet meeting in February 2016 that the leaking had to stop – a remark he aimed at his treasurer and raised again in private talks after the meeting.

“I have spoken to Morrison again and again about this and it was important the cabinet see that I am putting my foot down,” Mr Turnbull wrote in his diary at the time, in an extract included in the new memoir, _A Bigger Picture_, to be released on Monday.

“He has to be, and be seen to be, on notice. He almost offered his resignation to me afterwards but didn’t. In my study here in The Lodge we agreed to go forward but strictly on the basis that we agree on matters like this privately and then announce. No more front-running.”

Mr Turnbull’s claims, and his blunt conclusion that Mr Morrison played a “double game” in the government’s leadership turmoil, come at a time when the Prime Minister is seeking national unity to counter the COVID-19 virus.

The clash about “front-running” was fundamental to the Turnbull government’s fortunes ahead of the 2016 election because the debate raised expectations for change before the cabinet rejected the reforms.

At one point, Senator Cormann expressed his frustration with Mr Morrison after another leak, sending a text message to Mr Turnbull that said: “We have a treasurer problem.”

Mr Turnbull writes that he preferred to work on policy in secrecy without previewing it to journalists, but his treasurer could not be contained.

“Scott, however, liked to start with a firm view of the solution – or, more often, the announcement – then go in search of the problem,” Mr Turnbull writes.

“Plus, he confided in journalists much more than I thought was wise.”

Mr Turnbull names editors and journalists at News Corp Australia including Simon Benson, Chris Dore and Paul Whittaker as those who gained leaks about options such as an increase in the GST in a “tax mix switch” to cut personal tax rates.

“Morrison, though, unfortunately nobbled any chance of GST reform becoming a reality by front-running policy options in the media,” Mr Turnbull writes.

“Time and again he’d float ideas on the front page and monitor the public reaction before determining whether it was good policy or bad policy.

“The biggest problem with Scott’s preferred approach of reverse-engineering economic policy via the front pages of the tabloids was that once an idea was in the public domain, no matter how good or bad it was, you couldn’t put the genie back in the bottle.”

Mr Turnbull writes that Finance Minister Mathias Cormann wanted to cut Mr Morrison out of policy talks in order to avoid details being leaked to _The Daily Telegraph_.

“It wasn’t easy managing the pair of them as their mutual distrust grew,” he writes.

In an interview ahead of the publication of the memoir, Mr Turnbull said he did not believe Mr Morrison was using the media to damage the government or undermine colleagues.

“I worked well with Morrison. The only substantial difficulty we had was this issue of front-running, and it was a problem that I had with him, that Cormann had with him,” Mr Turnbull said.

However, he added that the “front-running” damaged the government ahead of the 2016 election, when the Coalition retained power by a single seat.

Mr Turnbull also writes about Mr Morrison’s positioning on the Liberal Party leadership, including a conversation in December 2014 in which Mr Morrison said Tony Abbott would have to go as prime minister during 2015 if his performance did not improve.

Mr Abbott faced a spill motion the following February and was removed in September, when Mr Morrison’s allies voted against him even though Mr Morrison himself did not.

On his own removal, Mr Turnbull concludes that Mr Morrison promised loyalty in the leadership turmoil of August 2018 but that his allies voted for Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton.

“There’s no doubt at least half a dozen of Scott’s closest allies (and he didn’t have a large number) voted for Dutton in the ballot on the Tuesday,” Mr Turnbull writes of the first leadership ballot on August 21 that year.

“The idea that they did that without his knowledge is fanciful.

“Scott is a control freak and I’d seen before in the ballots in 2015 how he’d publicly vote one way while ensuring his supporters voted the other way.”

“So, regrettably, while it’s never possible to be 100 per cent certain about these things, I have come to conclude Scott was playing a double game.”


----------



## Knobby22 (16 April 2020)

Oh well, ScoMo played the double game. That's how politics is. 

He's been pretty good in this crisis. You can tell by this thread, no one is upset with him.

Some more tough decisions coming up next month. Do we attempt to wipe out the virus, relax restrictions, or stay as we are?


----------



## IFocus (16 April 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Oh well, ScoMo played the double game. That's how politics is.
> 
> He's been pretty good in this crisis. You can tell by this thread, no one is upset with him.
> 
> Some more tough decisions coming up next month. Do we attempt to wipe out the virus, relax restrictions, or stay as we are?




Morrison has been very good although got off to a laissez-faire start with the I am going to the NRL but next day we shut everything down.
Remember it wasn't the government that triggered the action on the pandemic it was the chief medical officer but to the government's credit it followed the advice plus formed the state premieres and federal government into a single force.

Compare that to Trump / Boris  total cluster fu(ks Smoko looks pretty damn good.


----------



## orr (16 April 2020)

IFocus said:


> Morrison has been very good ....




What sort of bastard would do a quote cut like that to to good bloke...
Sorry focus...
I was an hour ago listening to Schmo's response to Adhern's remarks on travel between NZ and Oz; given infection rates as they stand and capacities of our countries. .. and what do you hear from Schmo... Ohh FFS.
Schmo can thank his living breathing mother of mary and bleeding jesus that he's not playing chess against Jacinda. The women is 4 to 5 moves ahead of poor schmuck 'I'm off to the  footy' morrison.

_Snap Back...Back in Black........     _

Is anyone else seeing some 'Oh dear' Here.....


----------



## Knobby22 (16 April 2020)

IFocus said:


> Morrison has been very good although got off to a laissez-faire start with the I am going to the NRL but next day we shut everything down.
> Remember it wasn't the government that triggered the action on the pandemic it was the chief medical officer but to the government's credit it followed the advice plus formed the state premieres and federal government into a single force.
> 
> Compare that to Trump / Boris  total cluster fu(ks Smoko looks pretty damn good.



Don't forget though that we were a top 8 country for having the virus at the beginning. 

Morrison decided that people are more important than the economy. 
Boris and Trump decided the opposite. Boris quickly backpedalled, Trump still hasn't.

This shows an integrity, possibly due to his religious beliefs that the other two lacked.
(That will rile Orr [emoji6]).


----------



## sptrawler (16 April 2020)

I havent seen any of Morrisons broadcasts or McGowans, but from the articles I read on the internet and from listening to what the general public say, it sounds as though it has been handled pretty well.
I know I personally didnt think that it was getting out of control and there didnt seem to be a sense of panic any where I frequented.
Just my thoughts.


----------



## SirRumpole (16 April 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I havent seen any of Morrisons broadcasts or McGowans, but from the articles I read on the internet and from listening to what the general public say, it sounds as though it has been handled pretty well.
> I know I personally didnt think that it was getting out of control and there didnt seem to be a sense of panic any where I frequented.
> Just my thoughts.




I wouldn't give anyone "top marks", because that would require no cases at all and that hasn't happened.

Some lax monitoring at the start probably let a few too many cases through, and the Ruby Princess was a disaster, although we can argue whether that was a State or Federal problem.

"Self isolation" is a bit of a joke, there was little policing of it at the start and that probably let a few infections slip by.

Also the Centrelink issue was badly handled, people shouldn't have had to line up in close proximity spreading stuff around, and the "responsible" Minister seemed to think it was a bit of a joke.

But Morrison & co seem to have learned from their mistakes and most people are getting used to the restrictions. There could have been violence on the streets in a situation like this, but that hasn't happened. The stimulus packages seem to have been generally well handled, although I'm worried that super funds won't have enough cash to pay people who want to dip in early.

Federal and State governments have worked pretty well together, but the schools issue is confusing.

Still, considering that nothing like this has happened in over 100 years, I'd probably give them 8/10 so far, we seem to have kept the contagion down compared to other countries, but there is still a lot to do.


----------



## sptrawler (16 April 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> I wouldn't give anyone "top marks", because that would require no cases at all and that hasn't happened.
> 
> Some lax monitoring at the start probably let a few too many cases through, and the Ruby Princess was a disaster, although we can argue whether that was a State or Federal problem.
> 
> ...



With regards schooling it is hard apparently some teachers want to go and some don't.
From our perspective the daughter doesn't know whether to take long service at half pay or not.
It does make it difficult to plan.


----------



## moXJO (17 April 2020)

I hope this is a joke:

*Scott Morrison has delivered a stark choice to Australians – sign up to a new COVID-19 tracking app to record your movements or you may have to remain in lockdown for longer.*

Yeah.... F#$k off Scomo.


----------



## PZ99 (17 April 2020)

If you have to wear a tracking device, make sure everyone knows it, you'll never get mugged


----------



## sptrawler (17 April 2020)

Yep just put this app on your phone, we will only use it while the virus is here, there does another flock of pigs flying by.


----------



## moXJO (17 April 2020)

Didn't Tbull say scomo was a control freak. Scomo and Dutton might be a match made in hell when it comes to civil rights


----------



## SirRumpole (17 April 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Yep just put this app on your phone, we will only use it while the virus is here, there does another flock of pigs flying by.




Surely you would be able to delete it from your phone when the all clear is sounded ?


----------



## moXJO (17 April 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Surely you would be able to delete it from your phone when the all clear is sounded ?



How much data would they have collected in the meantime.


----------



## IFocus (17 April 2020)

orr said:


> What sort of bastard would do a quote cut like that to to good bloke...
> Sorry focus...
> ..




Haha yeah I know choking as I wrote that one thing for certain Smoko will sure as hell revert back to being a political dog soon enough...........


----------



## moXJO (17 April 2020)

*A Victorian couple was fined $1,652 each for breaching coronavirus restrictions after sharing year-old holiday snaps on Facebook.

Jazz Mot said Victoria Police fined her and her husband Garry for being in Lakes Entrance - two hours from their home - after she shared images on social media earlier this month.
*
I thought this was a joke as well. They ended up withdrawing the fine. But still.


----------



## orr (17 April 2020)

How good does it feel knowing schmo and dutton want to be in your pocket knowing exactly where you are, all the time..Gives me 'Shivers' ... but not like the ones Nick Cave and the 'Boy's next Door'  described...

But I'll tell you what Schmo; here's  the the deal... I'll down load your 'watch me everywhere app' if you tell me why.... You,  *Scott Morriscum got the 'SACK' from Tourism Australia   
*
How  hard could that be.?

And Knobby, ever heard of a bloke Steven Kennedy? (DYOR)... Just might be an 'AO'  down the the line for this fella; for saving us from the base instincts  and ignorance of morrison's clown car cabinet.
Morrisons pedestrian intellect has trouble fighting it's  way out of a wet paper bag. If you have any evidence to the contrary please for the sake of the nations perception of this all to ordinary man, please put it forward...Ordinary 'Just don't cut it'


----------



## IFocus (17 April 2020)

orr said:


> How good does it feel knowing schmo and dutton want to be in your pocket knowing exactly where you are, all the time..Gives me 'Shivers' ... but not like the ones Nick Cave and the 'Boy's next Door'  described...
> 
> But I'll tell you what Schmo; here's  the the deal... I'll down load your 'watch me everywhere app' if you tell me why.... You,  *Scott Morriscum got the 'SACK' from Tourism Australia
> *
> ...




Good pickup Orr worth a read "Steven Kennedy"


----------



## sptrawler (17 April 2020)

orr said:


> How good does it feel knowing schmo and dutton want to be in your pocket knowing exactly where you are, all the time..Gives me 'Shivers' ... but not like the ones Nick Cave and the 'Boy's next Door'  described...
> 
> But I'll tell you what Schmo; here's  the the deal... I'll down load your 'watch me everywhere app' if you tell me why.... You,  *Scott Morriscum got the 'SACK' from Tourism Australia
> *
> ...



Jeez orr, did he take a girlfriend off you when you were younger. Lol


----------



## Knobby22 (18 April 2020)

I would say ScoMo is as intelligent as the average world leader, Orr. Not a high bar sure. 

I think unlike some others he has learnt humility from his failures in the past, even recent past (bushfires) to heed advice from experts and I do think he is genuinely trying to act for good as he sees it.

This is why he couldn't wear wholesale death. I do think his Christian faith influenced him on this. He would have had political advisors and some in the Cabinet against him on this.


----------



## chiff (18 April 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> I would say ScoMo is as intelligent as the average world leader, Orr. Not a high bar sure.
> 
> I think unlike some others he has learnt humility from his failures in the past, even recent past (bushfires) to heed advice from experts and I do think he is genuinely trying to act for good as he sees it.
> 
> This is why he couldn't wear wholesale death. I do think his Christian faith influenced him on this. He would have had political advisors and some in the Cabinet against him on this.



There are points of view that say Hillsong is not a Christian religion.Never gone into it much but I guess it is their emphasis on being rich?
The weekend  Morrison was going to the football-was that the same weekend of the Hillsong convention when he wanted gatherings of up to 500 to be OK.(After that a couple of groups of Hillsong attendees went to the Barossa valley where it is claimed a cluster of Covid-19 infections were a direct result of some US tourists.Two were tested but before their positive results came back they had took off,lickety split,back to the US)
Morrison gets prickly when his 'religion' is used to needle him.However he brought his religion into politics when he asked the media to come and watch him pray.(during an election campaign}
You wonder with their response to refugees whether some of these politicians that claim to be Christians are pseudo-Christians?


----------



## SirRumpole (18 April 2020)

chiff said:


> There are points of view that say Hillsong is not a Christian religion.Never gone into it much but I guess it is their emphasis on being rich?
> The weekend  Morrison was going to the football-was that the same weekend of the Hillsong convention when he wanted gatherings of up to 500 to be OK.(After that a couple of groups of Hillsong attendees went to the Barossa valley where it is claimed a cluster of Covid-19 infections were a direct result of some US tourists.Two were tested but before their positive results came back they had took off,lickety split,back to the US)
> Morrison gets prickly when his 'religion' is used to needle him.However he brought his religion into politics when he asked the media to come and watch him pray.(during an election campaign}
> You wonder with their response to refugees whether some of these politicians that claim to be Christians are pseudo-Christians?




Morrison is a Right wing Christian. They believe in "Salvation by Faith", in other words as long as people believe they will be "saved", that's all they have to do. No serving the poor or healing the sick required, just "believe". 

The Left Wing Christians are out running soup kitchens or doing Meals on Wheels, they believe in salvation by deeds.


----------



## IFocus (18 April 2020)

Well didn't have to wait long looks like the Corona virus will be used for cover to reduce workers rights further IR changes along with company tax cuts you know those company's the tax payers are propping up


----------



## moXJO (18 April 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Morrison is a Right wing Christian. They believe in "Salvation by Faith", in other words as long as people believe they will be "saved", that's all they have to do. No serving the poor or healing the sick required, just "believe".
> 
> The Left Wing Christians are out running soup kitchens or doing Meals on Wheels, they believe in salvation by deeds.



I don't believe that's true. I know Christians on both sides of the fence that do and give a lot to charity.


----------



## SirRumpole (18 April 2020)

moXJO said:


> I don't believe that's true. I know Christians on both sides of the fence that do and give a lot to charity.




I'm not saying they don't, just that it's not a requirement of the Faith of those on the Right.

A lot of them conveniently ignore Matthew 19:24, "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."


----------



## chiff (18 April 2020)

moXJO said:


> I don't believe that's true. I know Christians on both sides of the fence that do and give a lot to charity.



I hope that they give anonymously,unlike Rinehart and Forrest....those with an agenda.


----------



## moXJO (18 April 2020)

chiff said:


> I hope that they give anonymously,unlike Rinehart and Forrest....those with an agenda.



There's the type that use it as a networking tool and a feeling of righteousness and those that do it for the right reasons.
Then you get the ones that hide their shtty behavior behind the cloak of faith. 

The ones I mentioned didn't just pay lip service. Most worked hard on the frontline without preaching or pushing faith.


----------



## sptrawler (18 April 2020)

chiff said:


> There are points of view that say Hillsong is not a Christian religion.Never gone into it much but I guess it is their emphasis on being rich?
> The weekend  Morrison was going to the football-was that the same weekend of the Hillsong convention when he wanted gatherings of up to 500 to be OK.(After that a couple of groups of Hillsong attendees went to the Barossa valley where it is claimed a cluster of Covid-19 infections were a direct result of some US tourists.Two were tested but before their positive results came back they had took off,lickety split,back to the US)
> Morrison gets prickly when his 'religion' is used to needle him.However he brought his religion into politics when he asked the media to come and watch him pray.(during an election campaign}
> You wonder with their response to refugees whether some of these politicians that claim to be Christians are pseudo-Christians?



Politicians are supposed to be there as selfless servants of the Country, who put the Country first and themselves second, whose payment is the honour of leading the Country to a better future.
And there goes another squadron of flying pigs.
Poor old Malcolm is laying out exactly what it is about, ego and me, me ,me, what about me, why isnt anyone listening Im a legend.
Sad really.


----------



## orr (19 April 2020)

People are hounded out of public office in this cuntry by media organisations for at some time in the past taking home an office biro... And yet people here talk of Morrisons golden guiding christian moral compass while at the same time knowing that leading bag man, sorry Pastor of his favoured tub thumping racket was happy to protect his peadophilic father from rightful legal process...
https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/national/2019/09/23/nsw-police-investigation-brian-houston/

May I ask? Who might have Christ aligned him self with ? victim of perpetrator...

Schmo's 'track everyone' brain fart ?? how's it flying?

Scotty from marketings corona responce can't even get dunny paper on the selves at woolies. Meanwhile over in Taiwan two feet from Pandemic ground zero...
_'But helped perhaps by having an epidemiologist as vice-president, the government set up a gold standard regime of testing and contact tracing that means that nearly three months on from its first confirmed infection, it has registered fewer than 400 cases and six deaths.'_

How good is_ 'Aloha'_ Schmo..... they know in Nerriga..


----------



## moXJO (19 April 2020)

orr said:


> People are hounded out of public office in this cuntry by media organisations for at some time in the past taking home an office biro... And yet people here talk of Morrisons golden guiding christian moral compass while at the same time knowing that leading bag man, sorry Pastor of his favoured tub thumping racket was happy to protect his peadophilic father from rightful legal process...
> https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/national/2019/09/23/nsw-police-investigation-brian-houston/
> 
> May I ask? Who might have Christ aligned him self with ? victim of perpetrator...
> ...



I don't think anybody talked of scomo Christian moral compass.  Probably the opposite to tell you the truth.
And while Christ wouldn't have aligned with anyone. I sure as he'll would have gutter stomped someone in the name of God.

I did notice scomo quickly backed out of the tracking app. Obviously too overt. He is very careful about testing the waters. With the protesters in the US it's no wonder why.


----------



## Knobby22 (19 April 2020)

They tried this in Singapore but didn't get enough take up to be truly effective.

I think its a good idea. If there is a breakout, you could quickly find who had contact and stop the spread.

It's not like you are untraceable. If you have a mobile then you are 100% traceable as any criminal will tell you.

This would result in  huge cost savings and provide a highly effective tool.

As per usual, the paranoid, the far left and far right will be against it.


----------



## Humid (19 April 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> They tried this in Singapore but didn't get enough take up to be truly effective.
> 
> I think its a good idea. If there is a breakout, you could quickly find who had contact and stop the spread.
> 
> ...




I hope your sitting down.....
Most of the time I go out I leave my mobile home
Shock horror it's for work


----------



## SirRumpole (19 April 2020)

Humid said:


> I hope your sitting down.....
> Most of the time I go out I leave my mobile home
> Shock horror it's for work




I don't believe it tracks location, just phones that you are near, so if you or the other person test positive then people with the infected persons "range" can be notified.

That is of course if you believe what the governments says.


----------



## moXJO (19 April 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> They tried this in Singapore but didn't get enough take up to be truly effective.
> 
> I think its a good idea. If there is a breakout, you could quickly find who had contact and stop the spread.
> 
> ...



The police and other agencies have already overstepped the mark on data collection. 

Just one example:
https://theconversation.com/unlawful-metadata-access-is-easy-when-were-flogging-a-dead-law-127621

The reason it's so easy to trace was because everyone allowed these laws in. Gross violation of privacy imo.


----------



## bellenuit (19 April 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> I don't believe it tracks location, just phones that you are near, so if you or the other person test positive then people with the infected persons "range" can be notified.
> 
> That is of course if you believe what the governments says.




I don't know about Android, but on iOS the app has to ask you for permission  to access location data.


----------



## Logique (20 April 2020)

ScoMo lost some political bark during the bushfires, where he looked caught-out and reactive. What does a Shire boy know about bushfires.

Malcolm Turnbull's memoir has taken more bark off ScoMo. The way the whole PM spill business played out seemed very suspicious, so ScoMo's part in it as related by Turnbull, rings true.

But ScoMo has done well during the Covid crisis, no denying it.


----------



## sptrawler (20 April 2020)

Logique said:


> ScoMo lost some political bark during the bushfires, where he looked caught-out and reactive. What does a Shire boy know about bushfires.
> 
> Malcolm Turnbull's memoir has taken more bark off ScoMo. The way the whole PM spill business played out seemed very suspicious, so ScoMo's part in it as related by Turnbull, rings true.
> 
> But ScoMo has done well during the Covid crisis, no denying it.



One thing about Turnbull's spill that rings true is, it would have been difficult to get Turnbull to walk you, would have had to drag him kicking and screaming from the 'big chair'.
Jeez IMO, Turnbull is making a absolute dick of himself, he is doing himself no favours with all this tantrum throwing, poking his tonque out and holding his breath till he goes blue in the face.
IMO the only mistake Turnbull made was not joining the Labor Party when he entered politics, I think I read they wouldn't have him and I can fully understand that it was a wise decision.


----------



## Logique (20 April 2020)

Just some levity with this. I may even download the Covid app, thinking about it. Apparently it's not about locations (says Pollyanna): http://catallaxyfiles.com/2020/04/20/hawaiian-shirt-to-australia-miss-me-yet/


----------



## PZ99 (20 April 2020)

Logique said:


> ScoMo lost some political bark during the bushfires, where he looked caught-out and reactive. What does a Shire boy know about bushfires.
> 
> Malcolm Turnbull's memoir has taken more bark off ScoMo. The way the whole PM spill business played out seemed very suspicious, so ScoMo's part in it as related by Turnbull, rings true.
> 
> But ScoMo has done well during the Covid crisis, no denying it.



ScoMo is my pick of the last 3 Lib PMs. There does at least appear to be some coherence and unity in the party.

Of course - now that I've said that the opposite will reveal itself in much the same way as my stock tips eventuate


----------



## SirRumpole (20 April 2020)

PZ99 said:


> ScoMo is my pick of the last 3 Lib PMs. There does at least appear to be some coherence and unity in the party.




Not much to choose from there. 

I see Scomo as much in the Howard mould, reacts well in a crises (covid, guns), but if there is no crises they sit back with their feet on desk doing as little as possible.

Scomo had little agenda before covid, the laughable religious freedom laws, IR 'reforms' which were never going to pass, and reducing the debt which they had managed to double.

So once this crisis is over I expect Scomo to go back into hibernation, come out for air occasionally , but not achieve anything of particular importance.


----------



## PZ99 (20 April 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Not much to choose from there.
> 
> I see Scomo as much in the Howard mould, reacts well in a crises (covid, guns), but if there is no crises they sit back with their feet on desk doing as little as possible.
> 
> ...



Agree with all of that but unlike Abbott / Turnbull ScoMo is holding the Coalition together and there are similarities with Howard in terms of winning your first election as PM against the odds.  
That generally gives you a lot of authority. Ex treasurer portfolio doesn't hurt either.


----------



## Humid (20 April 2020)

Where's Dutton Hiding?


----------



## PZ99 (20 April 2020)

Humid said:


> Where's Dutton Hiding?



Load shedding at home 

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/posts/1065701/


----------



## moXJO (20 April 2020)

Not sure if we had a stimulus thread so I'll put this here.

Talking to a building today who was spitting it.
Apparently other builders (who had a bunch of already cheap labor) is being undercut further now job keeper payments are coming. Close to free labor.

He quoted a few months back and wasn't going to bother with the job keeper payments as he has had the work. But he is losing jobs after getting severely undercut.
So it's starting to distort the market.

If you need work done, it maybe a good time to get some quotes. I dare say tradies will try to turnover as many jobs as they can during the payments.


----------



## sptrawler (20 April 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Morrison is a Right wing Christian. They believe in "Salvation by Faith", in other words as long as people believe they will be "saved", that's all they have to do. No serving the poor or healing the sick required, just "believe".
> 
> The Left Wing Christians are out running soup kitchens or doing Meals on Wheels, they believe in salvation by deeds.



That is pulling a long bow Rumpy, I don't think the Christians are broken up into right and left leanings, but grabbing the initiative is a stroke of genius on your part.

What I've generally found with Christians is, you have the ones that talk about living by christian principles and you have others that actually do carry out Christian deeds, then you have others who just like helping people and aren't Christians.


----------



## peter2 (21 April 2020)

Does Aust have a strategic/emergency reserve of oil? 
It might be a good time to get one or double the current capacity because the POO is so cheap now and looks likely to remain so for many months.


----------



## SirRumpole (21 April 2020)

peter2 said:


> Does Aust have a strategic/emergency reserve of oil?
> It might be a good time to get one or double the current capacity because the POO is so cheap now and looks likely to remain so for many months.




Our government would be stupid not to take advantage of the current situation and get our fuel reserves up to full capacity, 90 days is the standard I believe, where we currently have about 20.


----------



## chiff (21 April 2020)

sptrawler said:


> That is pulling a long bow Rumpy, I don't think the Christians are broken up into right and left leanings, but grabbing the initiative is a stroke of genius on your part.
> 
> What I've generally found with Christians is, you have the ones that talk about living by christian principles and you have others that actually do carry out Christian deeds, then you have others who just like helping people and aren't Christians.



When I was a faithful "Christian" boy there were aspects of the faith that I did not agree with.The pastor taught that you could not get to heaven by good works alone.And as long as you repented on your death bed and accepted Jesus as your saviour you were heaven bound on the special express.I could never come to terms with good works and being a Christian not going hand in hand.
I think of "Christians" attitudes to refugees!


----------



## sptrawler (21 April 2020)

chiff said:


> When I was a faithful "Christian" boy there were aspects of the faith that I did not agree with.The pastor taught that you could not get to heaven by good works alone.And as long as you repented on your death bed and accepted Jesus as your saviour you were heaven bound on the special express.I could never come to terms with good works and being a Christian not going hand in hand.
> I think of "Christians" attitudes to refugees!



Absolutely, I like you went through the religious stage, but as you get older you realise some 'Christians' are the most unchristian people you will ever meet.
I judge people on how they act, not on the badge they wear.


----------



## SirRumpole (21 April 2020)

chiff said:


> The pastor taught that you could not get to heaven by good works alone.




Of course, if people just did good works they wouldn't need the church.

Priests need you coming back to church and praying for salvation thus filling the pulpits and justifying the priest's stipend.

Churches are businesses , not a Faith.


----------



## SirRumpole (21 April 2020)

sptrawler said:


> One thing about Turnbull's spill that rings true is, it would have been difficult to get Turnbull to walk you, would have had to drag him kicking and screaming from the 'big chair'.
> Jeez IMO, Turnbull is making a absolute dick of himself, he is doing himself no favours with all this tantrum throwing, poking his tonque out and holding his breath till he goes blue in the face.
> IMO the only mistake Turnbull made was not joining the Labor Party when he entered politics, I think I read they wouldn't have him and I can fully understand that it was a wise decision.




Most of what Turnbull said rang true to me.

Tony Abbott led a truly appalling administration , horror budgets, knights and dames, school pastors, multiple energy "policies" catering pretty well exclusively to the far Right of society.

The Liberal party claims to celebrate success, but one of the most capable PM's it had in terms of business and legal expertise, not to mention intelligence was cast out like a dog.

I just find that disgusting.


----------



## sptrawler (21 April 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Most of what Turnbull said rang true to me.
> 
> Tony Abbott led a truly appalling administration , horror budgets, knights and dames, school pastors, multiple energy "policies" catering pretty well exclusively to the far Right of society.
> 
> ...



Well taking that in context with the last election result, I'm not sure a lot of people found it the same way as you obviously did.


----------



## SirRumpole (21 April 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Well taking that in context with the last election result, I'm not sure a lot of people found it the same way as you obviously did.




Silly Billy was too far Left, that was the main reason Labor didn't win. I doubt if if was a hatred of Turnbull that some profess to.


----------



## Value Collector (21 April 2020)

Logique said:


> But ScoMo has done well during the Covid crisis, no denying it.




I agree, he has said some stupid **** in the past, (about electric cars for instance).

However, I think he has redeemed himself during this time.


----------



## SirRumpole (21 April 2020)

Value Collector said:


> I agree, he has said some stupid **** in the past, (about electric cars for instance).
> 
> However, I think he has redeemed himself during this time.




Even I think he's done a good job. 

With great cooperation from all the States and the Federal Labor Party that waved most things through without being subservient.

Makes me feel good about living in this country, although NZ has done well too.


----------



## Dona Ferentes (21 April 2020)

Wish to thank Fed Govt for turning down Virgin mendicants eight (8) times.


> Its five big shareholders showed no interest in an equity market driven recapitalisation even though the Queensland government promised $200 million in support.


----------



## sptrawler (21 April 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> The Liberal party claims to celebrate success, but one of the most capable PM's it had in terms of business and legal expertise, not to mention intelligence was cast out like a dog.
> 
> I just find that disgusting.




That's what happens in all political Parties when the incumbent wont step aside, I remember a horrible divorce when Bob Hawke was heave hoed by Paul Keating back in 1991, there was a lot of bad blood after that.
Also lets not forget poor old Kev and Julia, then Kev again, politics are never nice.
The trouble poor old Malcolm had, he was popular with the left wing media, not so popular with mainstream coalition voters he really would have been a better Labor leader than a Liberal leader IMO.
He may well have been a long term PM for the Labor Party, had they chosen to take him onboard, in the first place.
He was just a poor fit for a coalition leader, in the current demographics, don't forget Labor are getting a strong yuppie, inner city chardonnay set following.
Malcolm would fit like a hand in a glove at the moment, politics/demographics and people are always in a state of flux and at the moment the conservatives have a strong working class following, they seemed to think Malcolm is a silver spoon dick from what I heard.
Just my opinion.


----------



## SirRumpole (21 April 2020)

sptrawler said:


> That's what happens in all political Parties when the incumbent wont step aside, I remember a horrible divorce when Bob Hawke was heave hoed by Paul Keating back in 1991, there was a lot of bad blood after that.
> Also lets not forget poor old Kev and Julia, then Kev again, politics are never nice.
> The trouble poor old Malcolm had, he was popular with the left wing media, not so popular with mainstream coalition voters he really would have been a better Labor leader than a Liberal leader IMO.
> He may well have been a long term PM for the Labor Party, had they chosen to take him onboard, in the first place.
> ...




The party of Menzies was much more in the centre than the Libs of today which has lurched to the Right and now cuddles up to big business rather than the voters.

As for "silver spoons", Turnbull wasn't born with one in his mouth, he had to earn it, and people who aren't as successful as he is resent that.


----------



## sptrawler (21 April 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> The party of Menzies was much more in the centre than the Libs of today which has lurched to the Right and now cuddles up to big business rather than the voters.
> 
> As for "silver spoons", Turnbull wasn't born with one in his mouth, he had to earn it, and people who aren't as successful as he is resent that.



I certainly wouldn't call the recent coalition party right wing, I think Abbott was trying to push it that way, but everyone can make up their own minds on that.
Like I said the voting demographics are changing over recent years, I don't think there is a right wing Party ATM except possibly One Nation.
Labor have gone left/green and the coalition have gone central IMO, but that is only personal perception and I get it that other people think differently.
Also I didn't say Malcolm was born with a silver spoon, just the persona and it doesn't fit with people's current perception of the conservatives, as was proven in the U.K the working class are pretty definitive about what they want.


----------



## Logique (21 April 2020)

Vaucluse Public School and then Sydney Grammar ..scarcely down at heel in a Sydney context our Malcolm.

An only child, whose mother left when he was 9, I think this had a big formative influence. He has that only child feeling about him


----------



## sptrawler (21 April 2020)

Logique said:


> Vaucluse Public School and then Sydney Grammar ..scarcely down at heel in a Sydney context our Malcolm.
> 
> An only child, whose mother left when he was 9, I think this had a big formative influence. He has that only child feeling about him



He certainly came across as a me, me, me and the excerpts from his book appear to confirm it IMO.
He certainly wasn't my cup of tea as a leader, waffled on and became that beige he turned into wallpaper, as boring as watching kids eat broccoli.


----------



## sptrawler (22 April 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Our government would be stupid not to take advantage of the current situation and get our fuel reserves up to full capacity, 90 days is the standard I believe, where we currently have about 20.



From memory, hasn't Australia signed an agreement to access the U.S oil reserves, basically they are a holding facility for our reserves?


----------



## macca (22 April 2020)

sptrawler said:


> From memory, hasn't Australia signed an agreement to access the U.S oil reserves, basically they are a holding facility for our reserves?



That is right SP which is an improvement on the past but I do think we need to have enough here to keep us running for at least 6 weeks while the USA ships it over.


----------



## sptrawler (22 April 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Most of what Turnbull said rang true to me.
> .




Turnbull's book actually brings something else into question IMO.
Turnbull indicates the time Abbott was P.M, his female head of staff Peta Credlin was running the Country.
Here is an excerpt from an interview with Malcolm:
https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20200403/pdf/44gp4gp7kytzgj.pdf

“_Well, I mean, you were really dealing with Peta and Peta was running the country and that was obvious, and dominating Abbott,” the former prime minister told 7.30’s Leigh Sales.

“So it was as though she felt, ‘I've created you, you're my creation’, and she felt she owned him. It was a bizarre – a truly bizarre – relationship_.”

If that is true, IMO it brings into question Julia Gillard's  misogynist speach, saying Abbott is a male chauvinist pig. 
Someone is definitely telling porkies. 
Now that is what I call disgusting.


----------



## sptrawler (22 April 2020)

macca said:


> That is right SP which is an improvement on the past but I do think we need to have enough here to keep us running for at least 6 weeks while the USA ships it over.



Agree but massive bulk storage is always an issue, the U.S pump it into depleted oil fields.
We have had a rapid population growth and therefore oil usage increase, which would require increased reserves and therefore storage.
For us storage sites would be a very real problem and costly exercise.


----------



## SirRumpole (22 April 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Turnbull's book actually brings something else into question IMO.
> Turnbull indicates the time Abbott was P.M, his female head of staff Peta Credlin was running the Country.
> Here is an excerpt from an interview with Malcolm:
> https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20200403/pdf/44gp4gp7kytzgj.pdf
> ...




Tell it to some of Abbott's former colleagues.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03...redlin-at-the-heart-of-their-downfall/7222970


----------



## sptrawler (22 April 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Tell it to some of Abbott's former colleagues.
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03...redlin-at-the-heart-of-their-downfall/7222970



I don't know about an affair, but I never got the impression he was in any way sexist, the opposite if anything Leigh Sales used to slap him up hill and down dale he never once was discourteous.
Now Julia, well I would love to have seen anyone talk her down, IMO there was more likely hood of her being a misandrist, than Tony being a misogynist.
It would be great if Tim wrote his memoirs.


----------



## macca (22 April 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I don't know about an affair, but I never got the impression he was in any way sexist, the opposite if anything Leigh Sales used to slap him up hill and down dale he never once was discourteous.
> Now Julia, well I would love to have seen anyone talk her down, IMO there was more likely hood of her being a misandrist, than Tony being a misogynist.
> It would be great if Tim wrote his memoirs.




I agree with you, I think his Mum could well have run the household when growing up, his wife never looked timid in his presence. She was confident and had her say if she wanted to.

His daughters clearly thought he was a good Dad, they are thoroughly modern women and I think it would have shown in their manner towards him if he was sexist towards women.

JGs speech in Parliament was just a speech in Parliament attacking the leader of the opposite party.

No real substance to it but all is fair in politics so good luck to her, since when has the argy bargy in P'ment needed to be true


----------



## PZ99 (22 April 2020)

JGs speech in Parliament was to highlight hypocrisy by Abbott re: the sexist text messages by Peter Slipper. For some strange reason Abbott wanted the Gillard govt to take responsibility for Peter Slippers' behaviour when he was a Coalition member for many years.



sptrawler said:


> Turnbull's book actually brings something else into question IMO.
> Turnbull indicates the time Abbott was P.M, his female head of staff Peta Credlin was running the Country.
> Here is an excerpt from an interview with Malcolm:
> https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20200403/pdf/44gp4gp7kytzgj.pdf
> ...



Peta Credlin wasn't chief of staff until well after that speech. I don't agree with Turnbull about Credlin "running" Abbott. At best she could be accused of pulling him along by his e-wang to fulfill her own political ambitions.

At the end of the day, what came out of Abbott's mouth were his weasel words, not hers.


----------



## SirRumpole (22 April 2020)

Tony obviously new what was better for women than women did.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...omen-i-knew-we-had-some-way-to-go-on-equality


----------



## sptrawler (22 April 2020)

Obviously us guys on here are in touch with our feminine side. You wouldn't find a more courteous respectful bunch of guys anywhere.


----------



## sptrawler (22 April 2020)

PZ99 said:


> JGs speech in Parliament was to highlight hypocrisy by Abbott



JG"s speech in Parliament, was to grandstand and give her exposure, for life after politics IMO.
The only thing lacking was the leather gear and a whip.


----------



## PZ99 (22 April 2020)

Ok... well here's everything about the speech and what was behind it, in front and both sides of it.

Punters can make up their own mind about the intent 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misogyny_Speech#Background


----------



## Logique (22 April 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Tell it to some of Abbott's former colleagues.
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03...redlin-at-the-heart-of-their-downfall/7222970



Tony Abbott was given fair warning by the party. He wouldn't or couldn't listen.
Niki Savva's book provides some background: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/29415878-the-road-to-ruin : _The Road to Ruin: How Tony Abbott and Peta Credlin Destroyed Their Own Government _by Niki Savva
_"..From early on, *Abbott and Credlin ran a command-and-control operation*, vetoing ministerial staff selections, strictly controlling parliamentarians' travel arrangements, interfering in government portfolios seemingly at whim and punishing their rivals and enemies...
...Credlin herself comes across in Savva's narrative like an *insecure, hectoring bully*, prone to unforgivable public excoriations of her staff and petulant tantrums that the prime minister would then have to hose down..."_


----------



## sptrawler (22 April 2020)

PZ99 said:


> Ok... well here's everything about the speech and what was behind it, in front and both sides of it.
> 
> Punters can make up their own mind about the intent
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misogyny_Speech#Background



After reading that, I still think it was misdirected at Abbott, who by the finger pointing it was directed at.
But I do get your point.
Bullying and aggressive behaviour in Australian politics has been rife for a long time and IMO it does nothing but add to the lack of respect the public shows politicians.
When they start and show respect, they may call on others show respect in return, all sides of politics have adopted the poor behaviour so much so it has become the norm and is actually worn as a badge of honour these days.
Just my opinion


----------



## sptrawler (23 April 2020)

I see today that Malcolm's book can be had for $8.78, that's a big drop from the release price, it must be as boring as his time as P.M.
He should have got Paul Keating to proof read it and add a bit of zing.


----------



## sptrawler (23 April 2020)

Logique said:


> ScoMo lost some political bark during the bushfires, where he looked caught-out and reactive. What does a Shire boy know about bushfires.
> .



Talking about bushfires, it looks as though this years seasonal fuel reduction burn is already hitting snags.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...0-p54lft.html?js-chunk-not-found-refresh=true

The burn is scheduled for late autumn, conditions permitting, and will target an area within a few hundred metres of residential streets.

The controversy looks set to reignite debate about the extent and method of hazard reduction burning across NSW after a devastating bushfire season saw 25 people die and 2448 homes destroyed.

“The hazard reduction burn, it just destroys everything,” said Friends of Malabar chairman Dave Pyett. “We'll end up with a tea tree forest.”

Deputy mayor and Greens councillor Philipa Veitch raised the matter at Randwick City Council’s last meeting and won majority support for intervention.

She acknowledged the need for hazard reduction activities but argued it was important to “act cautiously” to protect the headland. It is home to rare bird species and a significant portion of the remaining 149 hectares of Eastern Suburbs Banksia Scrub.


----------



## PZ99 (24 April 2020)

I've seen it all now... Tony Abbott says turn the double dole into a "wage subsidy for older people" to improve society rather than the budget.

This is after creating polices that abolished the dole for under 30's and blowing the pension age out to 70 citing a "budget emergency" (the debt was a fraction of what it will be after next year)

https://www.news.com.au/national/br...e/news-story/fc080c6ba73ace593855b0c034466bba

Quite hilarious when someone doesn't believe their own narrative about austerity. LOL

Must be a Fabian hey?


----------



## moXJO (25 April 2020)

PZ99 said:


> I've seen it all now... Tony Abbott says turn the double dole into a "wage subsidy for older people" to improve society rather than the budget.
> 
> This is after creating polices that abolished the dole for under 30's and blowing the pension age out to 70 citing a "budget emergency" (the debt was a fraction of what it will be after next year)
> 
> ...



So the libs have turned into the greens?

Wtf  is going on???


----------



## orr (26 April 2020)

For those not complete on the Meta Data retention legislation signed into law by George 'Soapy' 'Satin' Brandis AG... see the clause which includes  '_and to protect revenues of the crown_'...
Any body who in this country who's  seen  first and second year start up Business taken to bankruptcy over trite amount$  by the ATO Knows the modus.
And a supposed majority now want a track me app in their pocket curtesy of _trusty_ Gussy Gate Taylor, Aloha Schmo, Stuart 'I'll delete all your info from my phone' Robert and Dutton??? 

Strange world some live in.


----------



## Humid (29 April 2020)

peter2 said:


> Does Aust have a strategic/emergency reserve of oil?
> It might be a good time to get one or double the current capacity because the POO is so cheap now and looks likely to remain so for many months.




Apparently Angus bought $94million worth of unrefined oil to be stored in the US
I wonder who he bought it from?


----------



## Humid (1 May 2020)

Australia's $94m oil purchase: Deal of the century or PR stunt?


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-01/australian-oil-buy-deal-of-the-century-or-dud/12202852

Enough for a long weekend lol


----------



## orr (2 May 2020)

My heart goes out to poor Schmo... All the million$$$ of public money pissed up on the grass out FAR'Kurrnell ... The bright spicy pageant of hubris and distorted and tortured historical piffle, egged  along by Schmo's own historical 'knowledge'... like his proposed Cook's circumnavigation re-enactment...
I thank corona for the small mercy's...

My true thanks go out to Mr Kev Carmody... for all you have given Australia and keep safe.

And to Bas that JuiceMedia ... Gold(it did load up in my Youtube before I saw your post, I just had to watch it again)

Bi-elections...Constance in the Monaro would be a clear and present danger to 'Aloha' Schmo with his creaking intellect and creepy disposition. Constance actually knows which way is up; Schmo from marketing would still be confused even after Jacinda had pointed to the ceiling...


----------



## sptrawler (2 May 2020)

Humid said:


> Australia's $94m oil purchase: Deal of the century or PR stunt?
> 
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-01/australian-oil-buy-deal-of-the-century-or-dud/12202852
> ...



This isnt a recent issue.lol
Any effort is better than what has been happening, for a long time.


----------



## orr (6 May 2020)

There's been more than one high speed multiple fatality in a Monaro... Buff Head Bailiaro looks to be  on life support after his 'tragic' roll over in the Monaro. the federal parliament has lost nothing.
Constance seems to be suffering whip-lash...

Fiona 'IceVoVo's looks to be on the core-flue for the Nasty Party.... mmmm...best 'o' luck...


----------



## Humid (7 May 2020)

It reminded us of the fond affirmations between Australian politicians and mainstream media; the sonorous repetitions of the word "reform" followed by talk about corporate tax cuts and deregulation of the workforce.

I bet if you were delivering pizzas on a moped in the rain across the Sydney Harbour Bridge at night - with no super, guaranteed work hours or insurance - you wouldn't be calling for more deregulation.

From Michael West


----------



## Humid (13 May 2020)

First barley then red meat nothing to see here
The thought of this happening under a Labor government and ASF Congo line of rusted on Liberal voters frothing is unimaginable


----------



## sptrawler (13 May 2020)

Humid said:


> It reminded us of the fond affirmations between Australian politicians and mainstream media; the sonorous repetitions of the word "reform" followed by talk about corporate tax cuts and deregulation of the workforce.
> 
> I bet if you were delivering pizzas on a moped in the rain across the Sydney Harbour Bridge at night - with no super, guaranteed work hours or insurance - you wouldn't be calling for more deregulation.
> 
> From Michael West



I also bet if you were a reporter in the age of speech to text software, you wouldn't want to hear the words reform and deregulation, the pizza delivery guy on the moped probably has more security of tenure.


----------



## sptrawler (13 May 2020)

Humid said:


> First barley then red meat nothing to see here
> The thought of this happening under a Labor government and ASF Congo line of rusted on Liberal voters frothing is unimaginable



OMG are they going to Rat F%$# us?

It isn't the first time meat exports have been curtailed you do realise that don't you, we have actually kicked a few own goals on that front.
https://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/a...s/news-story/86016c75dc8d4c3fdd0b071459b30fb1 

So what did Indonesia do
https://www.beefcentral.com/trade/export/indonesia-imposes-significant-bans-on-beef-offal-imports/


----------



## Humid (21 May 2020)

Fiscal fudges 
https://www.michaelwest.com.au/gove...covid-19/?mc_cid=9b5303f73b&mc_eid=37fd81d476


----------



## sptrawler (21 May 2020)

Humid said:


> Fiscal fudges
> https://www.michaelwest.com.au/gove...covid-19/?mc_cid=9b5303f73b&mc_eid=37fd81d476



Can't wait for the follow up article, on why the debt has blown out.


----------



## Humid (23 May 2020)

We’re in good hands
https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/co...lion-less-australians-eligible-ng-b881555583z


----------



## basilio (23 May 2020)

*Josh Frydenberg Says $60 Billion JobKeeper Windfall Will Be Split Evenly Between All 885 Million Australians*
https://www.theshovel.com.au/2020/0...l_885_million_australians&utm_term=2020-05-23


----------



## sptrawler (24 May 2020)

basilio said:


> *Josh Frydenberg Says $60 Billion JobKeeper Windfall Will Be Split Evenly Between All 885 Million Australians*
> https://www.theshovel.com.au/2020/0...l_885_million_australians&utm_term=2020-05-23



You think that is funny, wait until after tax time, when the ATO data matching computer starts to compare earnings to those who accessed super withdrawls and also matching jobseeker data with jobkeeper data.
I hope those who claimed, synchronised their info with their employer, there could be a huge differential.
We did mention at the start of all this, that a lot of data that wasn't readily accessible, will be given freely.
Just my opinion.


----------



## PZ99 (25 May 2020)

I think the discrepancy adds to my initial claim that this program should've been rolled out long before any other handouts...

Combine this with a moratorium on loan interest and business rent as well as partial super access and you have a fairly sustainable shutdown IMO.


----------



## sptrawler (26 May 2020)

Let's hope all sides can lay down their arms and come to consensus, for an Australia that continues to grow a Country where anyone who tries can succeed, or the continual slide to third world outcomes will continue IMO.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05...elations-business-unions-coronavirus/12287072


----------



## moXJO (26 May 2020)

As much as I dislike a lot of the libs stances, Scomo has been getting bang on during covid. One of his pleb advisers must read asf.


----------



## PZ99 (26 May 2020)

They say the current industrial relations system is not fit for purpose. This is despite it holding unemployment low during the GFC where other nations fell into mass unemployment.

They need to clearly define just what that "purpose" is otherwise there will be no consensus.

If the sole purpose is low unemployment and nothing else the slide to third world will accelerate quicker than you can say "Workchoices 2.0".

Consensus can only be achieved if it involves taxation reform like it did last time in the 80's


----------



## macca (26 May 2020)

PZ99 said:


> They say the current industrial relations system is not fit for purpose. This is despite it holding unemployment low during the GFC where other nations fell into mass unemployment.
> 
> They need to clearly define just what that "purpose" is otherwise there will be no consensus.
> 
> ...




Not only tax reform but many others areas of red tape as well, our SMEs are drowning in PC forms and surveys.

If they actually were taken notice of fair enough but so many forms are filed and forgotten, time wasted by people who have very little spare time.


----------



## Dona Ferentes (26 May 2020)

PZ99 said:


> They say the current industrial relations system is not fit for purpose. This is despite it holding unemployment low during the GFC where other nations fell into mass unemployment.
> 
> They need to clearly define just what that "purpose" is otherwise there will be no consensus.
> 
> ...



lucky country, mate.


----------



## sptrawler (26 May 2020)

PZ99 said:


> Consensus can only be achieved if it involves taxation reform like it did last time in the 80's



What would that be? wage rises limited to below cpi rises and a 16% cut to the company tax rate? That would get things moving.


----------



## PZ99 (27 May 2020)

sptrawler said:


> What would that be? wage rises limited to below cpi rises and a 16% cut to the company tax rate? That would get things moving.



Wage rises have been close to CPI anyway so can't give much more ground there.

Get rid of payroll tax for starters. On the employee side the current taxation system discourages productivity growth. I'm always seeing people refuse overtime because they say it's not worth it due to the extra tax for the week. Or because they get slugged with the medicare surcharge for not being in a health fund.

Other disadvantages are sick leave. People take it even when they're not sick simply because if they don't, it's forfeited when they leave the job. It therefore creates too much absenteeism so it's bad for both the employer and employee. It should be cashable beyond a certain number of accumulated hours.

People being stood down from work during COVID highlighted a flaw in the current system. qantas stopped paying sick leave to an employee who was on leave with a heart attack because they declared there was no work to be sick from so they terminated his sick pay even though he still had plenty of leave accumulated. I think that's BS. qantas is a shit company when it comes to treatment of employees and a classic case of how they would take this country to the dogs with IR laws.

ScoMo is right in one sense. The IR debate has been an unworkable "us and them" warfare.
But that's because employers always want to kill off the Better Off Overall Test, attack annual leave, sickies, redundancy pay, holiday pay, penalty rates.... in other words they won't be happy unless Workchoices is back and that's just not going to work. You only have to look at the rampant wage theft to get an idea what employers want. It's all one way.

Anyone who thinks this is going to be without prejudice should buy a lotto ticket.


----------



## SirRumpole (27 May 2020)

PZ99 said:


> Wage rises have been close to CPI anyway so can't give much more ground there.
> 
> Get rid of payroll tax for starters. On the employee side the current taxation system discourages productivity growth. I'm always seeing people refuse overtime because they say it's not worth it due to the extra tax for the week. Or because they get slugged with the medicare surcharge for not being in a health fund.
> 
> ...




The government obviously thinks that it's a good tactical time to have such a debate.

Employees are on their knees and they will be easier to beat over the head (with sympathy of course).

But at least there will be discussions, we'll have to see how they go. The economy pre covid was staggering along and the fundamentals weren't good, with stagnant wages and higher living costs.

If ScoMo has been channelling FDR and wants to bring in his own "New Deal" , it's going to require widespread reform  of taxation, immigration , IR, industry assistance , welfare  , education and lots more.

I hope he's got the balls for it, but he's shown his political nature by sidelining the Labor Party from the discussions. No big deal, Hawke did the same to the Libs with his accord.


----------



## qldfrog (27 May 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> The government obviously thinks that it's a good tactical time to have such a debate.
> 
> Employees are on their knees and they will be easier to beat over the head (with sympathy of course).
> 
> ...



Has labour changed in the last 2 months, doubt it, they have been playing the systematic obstruction as well, and labour does not represent working class snymore anyway.
Thanks God they are not involved, the problem in Australia is the lack of representation.
Is there a union or similar with proper decent behaviour/represetativity to discuss with?


----------



## PZ99 (27 May 2020)

The Coalition were kept out of the accord because they opposed it entirely.

By all means have the debate - but keep Labor AND Liberal out of it.

They are sponsored by identities with ulterior motives that will poison any debate.

FairWork was supposed to be the independent IR body with reps from all sides.. so why is the Government even involved at all ?


----------



## sptrawler (27 May 2020)

PZ99 said:


> Wage rises have been close to CPI anyway so can't give much more ground there.
> 
> Get rid of payroll tax for starters. On the employee side the current taxation system discourages productivity growth. I'm always seeing people refuse overtime because they say it's not worth it due to the extra tax for the week. Or because they get slugged with the medicare surcharge for not being in a health fund.
> 
> ...



So what do the employers get out of it? Why not something like:
Sick leave in a lot of instances has to be covered by overtime, so it is a double whamy for the employer, the person who takes it gets paid and the person who covers them gets double time. So maybe any sickies that aren't taken get cashed out on termination, everyone gets a % pay rise and the workers cover the sickies themselves. That could be achieved at EBA level, without even changing the award.
I always worked for wages, so I do understand the system, as you guys are saying the companies always want more but so do the workers.
There is no comment above on what the worker can give.
Hawke got change by having the unions in his pocket, he and Kelty basically froze wages, that is a fact. Also company tax rates were dropped from 49% to 33% around the same time.
If ScoMo tried that there would be hell to pay, so in reality all you guys are saying is get the economy and business going by increasing costs, that is difficult. As Rumpy and everyone knows our industries have been struggling for years because of high costs.
Mining is the only industry booming, because labour is a low component of the overall cost of extraction, the real advantage is the raw material is near, or on the surface.
Without a two way compromise, manufacturing will always struggle, how many countries have 4 weeks paid holidays with loading, long service leave, 10 days sick leave a year etc.
I'm not saying it should be lost, as it is what makes Australia a great country to live and work in, but reality says it has to be kept with some compromise.
As above.
Just my opinion.


----------



## Humid (27 May 2020)

qldfrog said:


> Has labour changed in the last 2 months, doubt it, they have been playing the systematic obstruction as well, and labour does not represent working class snymore anyway.
> Thanks God they are not involved, the problem in Australia is the lack of representation.
> Is there a union or similar with proper decent behaviour/represetativity to discuss with?




I think the working class have been conned into thinking their something their not.
A selfish dog eat dog workplace on a race to the bottom is what the Libs aimed for and got


----------



## moXJO (27 May 2020)

One thing I know that happened under COVID was all the DUD workers got the sack. I would think making it easier to fire employees would be on the list as most small  companies won't excessively hire.


----------



## PZ99 (27 May 2020)

sptrawler said:


> So what do the employers get out of it? Why not something like:
> Sick leave in a lot of instances has to be covered by overtime, so it is a double whamy for the employer, the person who takes it gets paid and the person who covers them gets double time. So maybe any sickies that aren't taken get cashed out on termination, everyone gets a % pay rise and the workers cover the sickies themselves.



You could do it that way or you could simply convert sick leave into normal holidays and add it to your annual leave. So an employee might think twice about taking a fake sickie because doing so is depleting their leave entitlements.


----------



## qldfrog (27 May 2020)

I agree the way the sick leaves are is a shame, you should be able to be  cumulated for 2 years max..issue of pending liabilities on the accounts so must be limited, 
And otherwise paid back yearly if unused.or converted to leaves
As is, currently a premium to the worst employees.


----------



## sptrawler (27 May 2020)

PZ99 said:


> You could do it that way or you could simply convert sick leave into normal holidays and add it to your annual leave. So an employee might think twice about taking a fake sickie because doing so is depleting their leave entitlements.



Absolutely, but if it is converted to annual leave, it is another cost to the company, as they have to hold cash to cover that with sickies they don't.
Don't forget you are trying to increase productivity and competitiveness, that can't be done by just adding costs, once the costs make it uncompetitive the company shuts or relocates. As has happened.
We need to increase productivity, without reducing conditions and not overly inflating costs.
It can be done Europe does, the big advantage they have though, is a huge market place on their doorstep.


----------



## PZ99 (27 May 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Absolutely, but if it is converted to annual leave, it is another cost to the company, as they have to hold cash to cover that with sickies they don't.



That's news to me. Sick leave had to be covered the same way as any other entitlement.
That's how it was when I was an employer anyway.

The current system only rewards bad employees because they take too many fake sickies.


----------



## sptrawler (27 May 2020)

PZ99 said:


> That's news to me. Sick leave had to be covered the same way as any other entitlement.
> That's how it was when I was an employer anyway.
> 
> The current system only rewards bad employees because they take too many fake sickies.



Annual leave is a fixed cost and workers entitlement, sickies aren't.
Putting things another way and not having a go at anyone, workers always want more and companies always want more, even if workers are given huge pay rises and improved conditions, it isn't long before their life adjusts to the new norm and they want more.
It can be seen on here and it was where I worked, when I started in my last job in 1990 it was $50k p/a when I stopped in 2010 it was $200k and the conditions were heaps better, but the workers were still complaining.
You don't have to look further than this thread to see that money and conditions, doesn't make someone happy with their lot, even if they are on mega bucks.
It is a difficult situation to resolve, like I said Hawke achieved it because he had Kelty and the ACTU in his his pocket and they agreed to basically a wage freeze.
It did fix the unemployment and kick start the economy, but there was an actual loss of 18% in real wages, also tarrifs were dropped and the demise of our manufacturing started, the Button plan was the first nail in the car industries coffin.
https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/holdens-demise-started-with-the-hawke-government-20131212-2za8a.html


----------



## Humid (27 May 2020)

I can’t wait to retire so I can tell the workforce what their doing wrong as I sit with my slippers on trying not to nod off


----------



## Humid (27 May 2020)

moXJO said:


> One thing I know that happened under COVID was all the DUD workers got the sack. I would think making it easier to fire employees would be on the list as most small  companies won't excessively hire.




You looking for work


----------



## PZ99 (27 May 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Annual leave is a fixed cost and workers entitlement, sickies aren't.
> Putting things another way and not having a go at anyone, workers always want more and companies always want more, even if workers are given huge pay rises and improved conditions, it isn't long before their life adjusts to the new norm and they want more.
> It can be seen on here and it was where I worked, when I started in my last job in 1990 it was $50k p/a when I stopped in 2010 it was $200k and the conditions were heaps better, but the workers were still complaining.
> You don't have to look further than this thread to see that money and conditions, doesn't make someone happy with their lot, even if they are on mega bucks.
> ...



Scomo's speech...

“Our industrial relations system has settled into a complacency of unions seeking marginal benefits and employers closing down risks, often by simply not employing anyone,” he said.

I think we've gone way past the era of huge payrises / wage explosions / inflation etc.
This era is very different to the accord era and it has different objectives. Haven't seen much in the way of huge payrise claims since the GFC to be honest.

If anything, I reckon a lot of employees would be just happy to start getting paid what they are really owed instead of being underpaid which has been a massive problem of late.

Anyway it'll be interesting who gives ground... the Govt ordered the ABC to freeze staff wages whilst refusing to do the same for MPs so I think that's a fair marker as to where the Govt wants this to go 

Agree about the Button plan.


----------



## Humid (27 May 2020)

How about they mention CEO obscene pay packets just to give us some ball park figures on restraint


----------



## moXJO (27 May 2020)

Humid said:


> You looking for work



Hey I'm a dud worker now. 
If I worked for someone else they would end up committing suicide.

Why? 
Did you need an offsider to hold your ice cream in the mines?
Or someone to chat to while we both stand around for hours waiting on a part...


----------



## macca (27 May 2020)

moXJO said:


> One thing I know that happened under COVID was all the DUD workers got the sack. I would think making it easier to fire employees would be on the list as most small  companies won't excessively hire.




Having owned quite a few small businesses under various rules and working for wages before that I have experienced both sides of the coin.

I feel that the best system was being able to fire someone with one weeks notice but only after two written warnings.

I know people who went broke because a toxic employee created so much havoc knowing that it was hard to sack him without great expense.

I know of a business right now that has a similar problem, having to pay 6 months stress leave because an employee was chastised when she repeatedly refused to follow company protocol.

None of the other staff want her back because they have to fix up her trail of havoc but she knows all the tricks to make it hard to sack her, 20 years ago it would have been here is a weeks pay and goodbye !

I realise that large employers are a different case and I do think a Union is the best way to go, or at least an association of employees to represent the workers.

I disagree strongly when an 18 year old is expected to negotiate with management for conditions, JH stuffed badly in the way Work Choices was introduced. Everyone with a TFN should have received a booklet on how WC was meant to function

It is always going to be impossible to please everyone but hopefully an agreement can be reached at the meeting


----------



## macca (27 May 2020)

Humid said:


> I can’t wait to retire so I can tell the workforce what their doing wrong as I sit with my slippers on trying not to nod off




Sounds like a complete waste of time to me, retirement is to do the things that you have not had time to do when working.

If you are really lucky and you survive until then, you still need to be healthy enough to be able to get around.

I know quite a few people who died well before getting the opportunity.

Of course, on top of that you need to be able to afford to do those things, luckily here in OZ we get paid very well compared with other countries so most frugal people do have a nest egg to retire on.

However, I do agree that CEOs salaries are completely out of control, bordering on obscene in fact. I do not know how to fix it but it needs to be done.


----------



## Smurf1976 (27 May 2020)

macca said:


> Having owned quite a few small businesses under various rules and working for wages before that I have experienced both sides of the coin.




My observation from the other side, having always worked for government or large business, isn't overly dissimilar.

The attitude and underlying ability of an individual is an order of magnitude more important when hiring than their knowledge and skills. Skills can be learned by anyone keen and with reasonable intelligence but changing someone's attitude is akin to pushing a cart load of bricks up a steep hill. It's a hell of a task doomed to fail miserably and probably kill you in the process.

That goes for all levels from the bottom to the top. Ideally you want both but if it's one or the other then attitude beats skill.

Attitude as in enthusiasm, integrity and self awareness mostly. Those who are pragmatic about the situation and themselves, are keen to make a go of it and who will engage meaningfully.

Those who follow orders without question are almost as bad as those who rock the boat for the sake of it, neither are really much help and I'd rather someone who questions what we're doing and puts forward their well thought out ideas on how it could be done better than someone who says "yes boss" and keeps their mouth shut. That said, last thing you want on any team is someone who is all take and no give and who isn't realistic about what the company can and can't control.

Don't get me started on those who take the "not my job!" view of the world and especially those who won't do something they deem beneath them and who won't give something a go on a one-off basis just because it's above their pay grade.  More often than not, the troublemakers have that exact attitude.

That said, overall company culture is heavily influenced by those at the top. If there's a few random employees who are trouble well then the problem is most likely those employees. If everyone's whinging and there's ongoing drama then that points heavily toward dud managers.


----------



## macca (27 May 2020)

I agree about managers, CEOs are worth big money compared with the average tradie but the thing that puzzles me is the obscene rate of increase when we compare wages of both today and 20 years ago.

CEOs are paid multiples of what they used to be, far too much, particularly when they get paid and Company has had a bad period.

Stupid stuff, if sales people fail then they do not get a bonus, why do CEOs ?


----------



## Smurf1976 (27 May 2020)

Another problem with high pay for CEO's is it attracts people who are purely seeking personal gain and who couldn't give a stuff about the long term future of the company, it's employees, shareholders or anyone else.


----------



## Humid (28 May 2020)

moXJO said:


> Hey I'm a dud worker now.
> If I worked for someone else they would end up committing suicide.
> 
> Why?
> ...



No ice cream due to covid and the removal of self serve utensils
We sit in the ute.....too hot mate


----------



## moXJO (28 May 2020)

Humid said:


> No ice cream



I'm out.


----------



## SirRumpole (29 May 2020)

The Federal Government will repay $700 million in Robodebt.

Surely the Minister Stuart Robert has to fall on his sword or be sacked over this, it's appalling.


----------



## Humid (29 May 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> The Federal Government will repay $700 million in Robodebt.
> 
> Surely the Minister Stuart Robert has to fall on his sword or be sacked over this, it's appalling.



Meh
700 million to these economic geniuses is a drop in the ocean with their accounting skills


----------



## macca (29 May 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> The Federal Government will repay $700 million in Robodebt.
> 
> Surely the Minister Stuart Robert has to fall on his sword or be sacked over this, it's appalling.




A complete idiot would know that if you use different criteria to measure income then you will almost certainly get a different result.

It should never have been used because it was obviously wrong, it was a very poor performance by the PS boffin that introduced it.

The minister did not introduce it But it was pointed out to him by his fellow members, the press and various social media outlets that it was faulty.

It should have been suspended by him a year ago pending an investigation, it wasn't, consequently he becomes liable for the continued pursuit of honest Ozzies.

Not good enough !


----------



## basilio (30 May 2020)

Robo Debt was always a lie masquerading as "government policy" to extract billions from welfare recipients via Letters of Demand  based on clearly erroneous information.

The legal facts are so obvious the Government has had to capitulate (on a Friday afternoon no less..). Whether the class action lawyers allow them to get away with a bare bones repayment is debatable.

*One overwhelming point should be remembered. The injustice and insanity of Robo debt was clear for years yet the Government still insisted on continuing the process. It was only the reality of a class suit on behalf of the hundreds of thousands of affected people that caused the final capitulation.

Well done Peter Gordon...*

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-30/robodebt-stuart-robert-scott-morrison/12303322
https://gordonlegal.com.au/news/gordon-legal-to-fight-illegal-robodebt-clawback/
https://gordonlegal.com.au/media/1225/200313-amended-statement-of-claim-sealed.pdf


----------



## Humid (31 May 2020)

Now they’re going after class action....very soon everything will be gone!

https://www.crikey.com.au/2020/05/26/how-class-action-warrior-christian-porter-created-legal-crisis/


----------



## sptrawler (31 May 2020)

It's only a matter of time, before most if not all data collection ends up as a computerized data processing function, the tide will continue to roll in whether we like it or not.
Also it won't matter who is in office.


----------



## SirRumpole (31 May 2020)

Robodeath, playing with numbers or a serious problem ? I suspect the former.

https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/prog...receiving-centrelink-robodebt-notice/10821272


----------



## PZ99 (1 June 2020)

The government will unveil grants for new homebuyers, which will reportedly be on offer for everybody – not just first-timers.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/rea...r/news-story/fca8a0d81dbef389399e1bbdb35b74b6

I think there's merit to this - although in the case of first home buyers I would allow a portion of super can be set aside for the first few years to assist repayments instead of using it a deposit.


----------



## Humid (1 June 2020)

macca said:


> A complete idiot would know that if you use different criteria to measure income then you will almost certainly get a different result.
> 
> It should never have been used because it was obviously wrong, it was a very poor performance by the PS boffin that introduced it.
> 
> ...



Who was the social service minister when it was introduced?


----------



## SirRumpole (1 June 2020)

Humid said:


> Who was the social service minister when it was introduced?




Christian Porter.


----------



## sptrawler (9 June 2020)

We were lucky last weekend, that Scott Morrison wasn't away on holidays and was able to direct people not to take part in the marches.
It would have been disastrous, if he had been away, as he was during the early stages of the bushfires.


----------



## wayneL (9 June 2020)

sptrawler said:


> We were lucky last weekend, that Scott Morrison wasn't away on holidays and was able to direct people not to take part in the marches.
> It would have been disastrous, if he had been away, as he was during the early stages of the bushfires.



LMAO

I must say Scotty has learnt from the experience and is playing the plebians well


----------



## IFocus (9 June 2020)

sptrawler said:


> We were lucky last weekend, that Scott Morrison wasn't away on holidays and was able to direct people not to take part in the marches.
> It would have been disastrous, if he had been away, as he was during the early stages of the bushfires.




Maybe you missed the Coalition playing BS ideological political crap....Corman?


----------



## sptrawler (9 June 2020)

IFocus said:


> Maybe you missed the Coalition playing BS ideological political crap....Corman?



What has Corman been upto?


----------



## wayneL (10 June 2020)

IFocus said:


> Maybe you missed the Coalition playing BS ideological political crap....Corman?



Yes you are sooooo right. Labor and the Greens *never ever play BS ideological political crap.


----------



## sptrawler (10 June 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> I wouldn't give anyone "top marks", because that would require no cases at all and that hasn't happened.
> 
> Some lax monitoring at the start probably let a few too many cases through, and the Ruby Princess was a disaster, although we can argue whether that was a State or Federal problem.



Oh well I guess it has finally come out that the Ruby Princess debacle had nothing to do with ScoMo. 
I guess it doesn't matter in hindsight the crap was thrown and some would have stuck, the good old Aussie media, managing the masses as usual.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-10/ruby-princess-disembarked-before-covid-test-results/12335340


----------



## orr (12 June 2020)

Prime Minister Schmo's 'Own History of Australia' .... What a book that'll be .
Subtitled 'The make believe scratchings of an Historical Imbecile'
see highlights of "Cooks circumnavigation of Australia'....
 And Chapter 3 "No Slaves Here 'Blackie'. Have Go Get Go ... Just Don't Get Paid YouKnow..
Aloha Schmo opines "the real reason of my Xmas visit to the Sandwich Islands whilst the country burned was to visit Cooks Landing place. And revel in his conquest...

Don't miss the upcoming "Aussie's on Moon first; Io.Io.Io "

From the esteemed Publishing House 'Cretins Cretins & Credlin's'...(they're interchangable)


----------



## sptrawler (24 June 2020)

It is funny how the State's can ask for Federal assistance when they want it, after the shellacking ScoMo copped from the media over the bushfires incident, one would have thought Federal assistance is only available if offered.

From todays SMH headline:
*Coronavirus updates LIVE: Victorian government requests ADF to enforce hotel quarantine as Victoria records 20 new COVID-19 cases, Australian death toll stands at 103*


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (24 June 2020)

sptrawler said:


> It is funny how the State's can ask for Federal assistance when they want it, after the shellacking ScoMo copped from the media over the bushfires incident, one would have thought Federal assistance is only available if offered.
> 
> From todays SMH headline:
> *Coronavirus updates LIVE: Victorian government requests ADF to enforce hotel quarantine as Victoria records 20 new COVID-19 cases, Australian death toll stands at 103*




The ADF were deployed to our Sydney hotels; they were mostly reserves and unarmed.


----------



## sptrawler (30 June 2020)

Sounds as though the defense forces are going to beefed up.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-30/government-unveils-10-year-defence-strategy/12408232
From the article:
On Wednesday, Prime Minister Scott Morrison will unveil a greater focus on the Indo-Pacific region, warning Australia needs to prepare for a post-COVID world that is "poorer, more dangerous and more disorderly".

Mr Morrison will also announce a commitment to spend $270 billion over the next decade on defence capabilities, including more potent strike weapons, cyber capabilities and a high-tech underwater surveillance system.
In releasing the 2020 Defence Strategy Update and the accompanying Force Structure Plan, the Government is expected to confirm Australia will purchase the AGM-158C Long Range Anti-Ship Missile (LRASM) from the United States Navy, at a cost of $800 million.

The missile has a range of more than 370 kilometres and would be a significant upgrade from the 124 km range of Australia's AGM-84 air-launched Harpoon anti-ship missile, introduced in the early 1980s.

Up to $9.3 billion will also be spent on research and development into high-speed, long-range weapons, including hypersonic weapons.


----------



## PZ99 (1 July 2020)

Oh well...why not ?

It's only another $270 billion that will never get paid back 

We can't find the money to save our airline industry but we have $9b for a very fast missile.


----------



## wayneL (1 July 2020)

They may as well spend up now and pay with totally debased dollars later.

I've already ordered my post MMT wallet. It attaches to your belt and it can just trail along and can hold 50,000,000,000 of bank notes, much more elegant  than pushing a wheelbarrow to the shops.


----------



## rederob (1 July 2020)

> On Wednesday, Prime Minister Scott Morrison will unveil a greater focus on the Indo-Pacific region, warning Australia needs to prepare for a post-COVID world that is "poorer, more dangerous and more disorderly".



Not one of Morrison's points holds true.
Even after COV19 all the nations to our near north are significantly more wealthy than they were a decade, and were never a real threat then so would be less so now.  Furthermore, there is zero evidence that any are "more dangerous" and I have no idea what he means when he calls them "disorderly."  The concept of poverty causing danger and disorder at an international level is nowhere supported.
Classic dog whistling.
Everyone with half a brain knows that the only credible threat to Australia would be from China. 
The idea China has any desire or need to attack Australia defies logic.  Whatever China needs from Australia it can just buy.  Moreover, the idea that Australia could actually defend itself from a Chinese attack is fanciful.
It seems that nowadays to win elections you have to "get tough."  That means beating up on asylum seekers and any other low hanging fruit plus, with US blessing, China.
We now have a throwback to the 1950s where "communism" is turned into a defacto military threat.
China has enough on its plate internally than to worry about launching an all out attack on other nations.


----------



## SirRumpole (1 July 2020)

rederob said:


> Not one of Morrison's points holds true.
> Even after COV19 all the nations to our near north are significantly more wealthy than they were a decade, and were never a real threat then so would be less so now.  Furthermore, there is zero evidence that any are "more dangerous" and I have no idea what he means when he calls them "disorderly."  The concept of poverty causing danger and disorder at an international level is nowhere supported.
> Classic dog whistling.
> Everyone with half a brain knows that the only credible threat to Australia would be from China.
> ...




As far as defense goes, you have to think decades ahead. If there is a capability of another nation that has shown itself to be unfriendly to attack us then you have to do something about it even if it's tiny in comparison to the threat. The citizenry doesn't take kindly to being continually threatened by outside forces and that doesn't make for a productive community.


----------



## rederob (1 July 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> As far as defense goes, you have to think decades ahead. If there is a capability of another nation that has shown itself to be unfriendly to attack us then you have to do something about it even if it's tiny in comparison to the threat. The citizenry doesn't take kindly to being continually threatened by outside forces and that doesn't make for a productive community.



I agree Rumpy.
Some of the expenditure proposed is definitely needed.
However, the modern trend is for remote controlled (aka "unmanned") craft to play an increasing role in land, sea and air defenses.  I can't see that we are going to get ahead of the pack in that regard despite having some brilliant defence engineers.  We keep pandering to international expertise that sells us off-the-shelf weaponry with billion dollar price tags.


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## sptrawler (1 July 2020)

I did like the sound of the hypersonic weapons, now that's what we need and lots of them, cancel the subs and buy more hypersonic misiles.
Actually talking about the diesel subs, they will have to be able to be shut down while travelling, so our new super duper underwater listening device can hear something.


----------



## rederob (1 July 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I did like the sound of the hypersonic weapons, now that's what we need and lots of them, cancel the subs and buy more hypersonic misiles.



When they exist (the Mach 15 -20 versions rather than the Russian or Chinese versions) you would not need many. There would be nothing to stop them and they could hit any target on the planet in less than 60 minutes.
They would be much smarter than a nuclear deterrent and a lot cheaper.


----------



## sptrawler (1 July 2020)

Oh they do exist Rob and they run on H2, so a win win for us, we can put in refueling stations.


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## SirRumpole (1 July 2020)

I thought we were testing scramjets with the Japanese some time ago, then it all went quiet.


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## SirRumpole (1 July 2020)

rederob said:


> We keep pandering to international expertise that sells us off-the-shelf weaponry with billion dollar price tags.




Quite correct. I suppose the advantage is that it's been tested by others but still there are opportunities for local capabilities in drones and satellites. Good to see the Australian Space Agency get a mention by the PM, a potential source of employment for high paid science/engineering graduates.


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## sptrawler (1 July 2020)

Actually we were one of the first to test scram jets in 2002, but people forget, even those who never forget or think they know everything.

https://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/hyshot/default.htm

It has come a long way since then, we have discussed them a bit, in the future of energy generation and storage thread or the electric car thread, I can't remember which.


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## macca (1 July 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Quite correct. I suppose the advantage is that it's been tested by others but still there are opportunities for local capabilities in drones and satellites. Good to see the Australian Space Agency get a mention by the PM, a potential source of employment for high paid science/engineering graduates.




I would definitely prefer developing drones, we have a strong gaming industry and the software would be very similar I would imagine.

Far more beneficial than a billion dollar sub delivered in 2050 using diesel oil for fuel


----------



## PZ99 (8 July 2020)

Given that we all debated at length the impetus of the election result I thought people might be interested in this free download of "Morrison's miracle" > https://press-files.anu.edu.au/downloads/press/n6364/pdf/book.pdf

One thing I stole from it was this..







This suggests that the ALP's reformist "third way" polices have put them on a terminal decline and they left too many working people behind for the so-called greater good of free enterprise. Maybe I'm wrong ?

Their only decent spike is when the Howard Govt did even worse for workers.

In this current environment AA has his work cut out IMO.


----------



## SirRumpole (8 July 2020)

PZ99 said:


> Given that we all debated at length the impetus of the election result I thought people might be interested in this free download of "Morrison's miracle" > https://press-files.anu.edu.au/downloads/press/n6364/pdf/book.pdf
> 
> One thing I stole from it was this..
> 
> ...




I think you're right. Labor will have to find a way to appeal to "aspirational" voters including the self employed tradies or professional people who are being ripped off by big business.


 Anti corporatism , more individualism has to be their message. That area really should be classical Liberal territory, but the Libs have showed their true colours by backing the big banks ripping off individuals by opposition to the banking inquiry and the Libs are a corporatist party these days, big money is all they really care about.

Labor's traditional base of union members is declining as more people are shifted to the gig economy and can't afford the union dues if there is even a union to represent them and they can't keep relying on just the welfare vote either.

Highlighting the Libs lack of vision also should be on Labor's agenda. It's going to be tough because Howard couldn't see two feet in front of him but was around for 11 years.


----------



## sptrawler (8 July 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Highlighting the Libs lack of vision also should be on Labor's agenda. It's going to be tough because Howard couldn't see two feet in front of him but was around for 11 years.



And is still the most trusted politician from polls and is still the last one to bring in a surplus and is still called upon for comments.
As opposed to others who are still screaming out for attention?
Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I think Howard was the last bastion, before the current chaos of politics.
Union membership has been declining for decades, as members realise that they are pawns, in a political game the executive plays, to hopefully get on the political gravy train.
The rest who believe different are cannon fodder, they will go down with the ship, it was a sad day when the Labor party was taken over by the intellectuals .
Hopefully Albo can turn it around, the ones preceding him, were worse than the Libs and that is a sad thing to say.


----------



## IFocus (15 July 2020)

*"Mathias Cormann leaves a legacy of losses as Finance Minister"*

Government spending
The Abbott Government surfed into office in 2013 largely on the back of outrage against Labor’s “reckless spending” and “disastrous deficits”. In Labor’s last three years in power, federal spending averaged 24.3% of gross domestic product (GDP). That was quite low in historic terms for Australia and relative to comparable countries. In Labor’s last full year, 2012-13, spending was cut to $367 billion — 23.9% of GDP.

Abandoning all promises, the incoming Coalition with Cormann as finance minister swiftly reversed this thrift. Outlays rose to average 25.4% of GDP in the first three years, and 24.7% over the last three. In the year to May, spending was above $489 billion, against MYEFO estimates of $456 billion.

https://www.michaelwest.com.au/math...minister/?mc_cid=bc97330309&mc_eid=7935c92ad0


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## sptrawler (15 July 2020)

IFocus said:


> *"Mathias Cormann leaves a legacy of losses as Finance Minister"*
> 
> Government spending
> The Abbott Government surfed into office in 2013 largely on the back of outrage against Labor’s “reckless spending” and “disastrous deficits”. In Labor’s last three years in power, federal spending averaged 24.3% of gross domestic product (GDP). That was quite low in historic terms for Australia and relative to comparable countries. In Labor’s last full year, 2012-13, spending was cut to $367 billion — 23.9% of GDP.
> ...



Well they should have lost the last election, so the next one should be a shoe in for Labor.


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## IFocus (15 July 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Well they should have lost the last election, so the next one should be a shoe in for Labor.




Afraid the numbers don't lie unlike the Coalition on who handles money better while grifting it to their mates.


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## sptrawler (15 July 2020)

IFocus said:


> Afraid the numbers don't lie unlike the Coalition on who handles money better while grifting it to their mates.



Like I said, the next election will show how it all sits, labor have plenty of time to get it right next time.
It all boils down to perception and last election the perception of what labor was offering was terrible, hopefully they have learnt something.


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## wayneL (16 July 2020)

Let's be honest, neither major party deserve the reins power and that's the problem.

If we kick these knobs out, Aussies are stupid enough to vote for the other knobs, with even worse knobs as alternatives. 

I'm praying TSC might be able to make some sort of impact.


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## SirRumpole (16 July 2020)

wayneL said:


> Let's be honest, neither major party deserve the reins power and that's the problem.
> 
> If we kick these knobs out, Aussies are stupid enough to vote for the other knobs, with even worse knobs as alternatives.
> 
> I'm praying TSC might be able to make some sort of impact.




Who is TSC ?


----------



## IFocus (16 July 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Like I said, the next election will show how it all sits, labor have plenty of time to get it right next time.
> It all boils down to perception and last election the perception of what labor was offering was terrible, hopefully they have learnt something.




While conservatives distract the population successfully by running cultural wars of no significance (the very success seen here very much on these forums)all the while leaching the nations wealth / rights / freedoms away from the lower / middle income majority and increasing job wealth insecurity.

Its no surprise the population vote against their long term benefit the US is a very good example Australia being a mini version IMHO.


----------



## sptrawler (16 July 2020)

IFocus said:


> While conservatives distract the population successfully by running cultural wars of no significance (the very success seen here very much on these forums)all the while leaching the nations wealth / rights / freedoms away from the lower / middle income majority and increasing job wealth insecurity.
> 
> Its no surprise the population vote against their long term benefit the US is a very good example Australia being a mini version IMHO.



Well if you think back to the last election, and analyse their policies and then try to bring it forward to now, I think they would be under a lot of public pressure at the moment.
But as I say it is all perceptions and everyone has a different view, I just get on with my life and try not to dwell on the crusades people run.
Most have an agenda and I feel very few get into politics with the goal of making my life better.
It is strange, that you feel the majority, can't see what you see and voted for the coalition. You tend to paint the lower middle class as muppets, because they disagree with your perception.
Yet the swing away from the coalition, was from the very people, you say the coalition are there to help get richer.
Maybe yours is a conditioned belief, or maybe you are actually one of the wealthy, that like to vote Labor on conscience?
It really doesn't matter, what matters is that we work with what we have to best look after ourselves, our families and those who deserve it.


----------



## orr (16 July 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Who is TSC ?




Trotskyists Solcialists & Commo's....


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## sptrawler (16 July 2020)

orr said:


> Trotsyists Solcialists & Commo's....



Thanks, oldies like Rumpy and myself, aren't up with these TLA's (three letter abbreviations)


----------



## wayneL (16 July 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Who is TSC ?



"The Sensible Center", the group I have posted about on its own thread.


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## SirRumpole (16 July 2020)

wayneL said:


> "The Sensible Center", the group I have posted about on its own thread.




Right. Got any individuals in mind ?


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## wayneL (16 July 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Right. Got any individuals in mind ?



Not really, I haven't been following a long very closely. Been busy getting myself extraordinarily alarmed at both the history and current actions of Central Banks... And getting bent out of shape about the current discussion on bail ins in our own banking system.


----------



## IFocus (16 July 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Well if you think back to the last election, and analyse their policies and then try to bring it forward to now, I think they would be under a lot of public pressure at the moment.
> But as I say it is all perceptions and everyone has a different view, I just get on with my life and try not to dwell on the crusades people run.
> Most have an agenda and I feel very few get into politics with the goal of making my life better.
> It is strange, that you feel the majority, can't see what you see and voted for the coalition. You tend to paint the lower middle class as muppets, because they disagree with your perception.
> ...





Again the numbers support my position, greatest transfer of wealth ever, stagnant wages, deteriorating workers rights, labour being casualised, stripping of penalty rates, continued attacked on unions (nurses and firemen's), killing off of youth training / apprenticeships (Tafe) just for starters.

This is all around attacks on middle income.

The debt incurred by the Coalition far out ways anything Labor ever did and yet there is silence?

Feel free to put up a contrary argument.

BTW last election the Coalition didn't have any polices.


----------



## orr (16 July 2020)

IFocus said:


> transfer of wealth ever, stagnant wages,
> 
> BTW last election the Coalition didn't have any polices.




correct me  if I'm wrong here Focus but it's my recollection that Schmuck Schmo as a policy  promised us a Federal ICAC... bit quiet on that front. I expected little from this clowns arse outfit and they've delivered far less.

As to transfer; Picketty's "Capital in The Twenty First Century" does superlative pull apart of the major economic compression from the out break of WW1 through the Grt Depression to the End WW2...
The chances of a considerable  amount of wealth evaporating  from the upper echelon as an out come of the current unfolding situation is highly possible. History seldom truely repeats but it does tend to rhyme.
The immediate  real effects will apply to the poor as always and we've manufactured plenty of them....
The outcome for the working and middle class post WW2 can be looked upon with some affection in an economic sense. Up until rise of neo rationist distempered insanity...
cheers all...


----------



## wayneL (16 July 2020)

It's amazing how our leftists here are criticising our current government for their current policy direction.

In an even more bizarre twist, I find myself furiously in agreement, mostly.

The most bizarre thing of all, is that what our leftists here are criticizing most of all is actually leftist economic policy.

Bahahaha


----------



## sptrawler (16 July 2020)

IFocus said:


> Again the numbers support my position, greatest transfer of wealth ever, stagnant wages, deteriorating workers rights, labour being casualised, stripping of penalty rates, continued attacked on unions (nurses and firemen's), killing off of youth training / apprenticeships (Tafe) just for starters.
> 
> This is all around attacks on middle income.
> 
> ...



Which just goes to show how poor Labor were.
Policies which took money off the poor and middle class and gave it to the rich.
Only the rusted on couldn't see it.


----------



## IFocus (16 July 2020)

orr said:


> correct me  if I'm wrong here Focus but it's my recollection that Schmuck Schmo as a policy  promised us a Federal ICAC... bit quiet on that front. I expected little from this clowns arse outfit and they've delivered far less.




Yes and highly unlikely to happen but if it does there is no chance of it being any where near an "ICAC" as we would expect.

The dead bodies from the last 7 years would be a serious problem for any marketing PM......

The billions in grant rorts would be a problem for starters.


----------



## sptrawler (16 July 2020)

I don't want to get involved in a pre election slanging match, way too far out, but from a tradie who is self funded below pension age who is burning capital.
Scomo is giving me zilch and I am helping support 3   generations, but he does seem to be helping those most disadvantaged, which I think is admirable.
Maybe if he had built school canteens and put batts in their roofs, he would be thought more highly of.
But I don't think so, there are some that just can't be pleased.


----------



## IFocus (16 July 2020)

SP where have you been? 

Widely reported that the Coalition were forced by COVID19 to reality out of their ideological stance.
Ques outside of centre link sent them into a frenzied panic
In other words they had no choice.....none.

Note Labor spent $40 bil and kept Oz out of recession slag them off all you want but the numbers don't back your argument.
Abbott spent x 2 that and we got..........?


----------



## sptrawler (16 July 2020)

Like I've said, wait till the election, it makes no difference to me who gets in, I've always paddled my own canoe.
It just annoys me, when rusted on from either side, try to ramp up crap.


----------



## sptrawler (16 July 2020)

IFocus said:


> SP where have you been?
> 
> Widely reported that the Coalition were forced by COVID19 to reality out of their ideological stance.
> Ques outside of centre link sent them into a frenzied panic
> ...



Another way of looking at it would be, all those people on the job queue who are trying to pay their mortgage, ask them how they would feel if investors weren't able to buy their houses?
But hey that would be fine, because the rich could pick them up cheap knock them over build a new $hitbox and rent it back to them.
Also they could have negative geared it and received a government subsidy, for renting it back to the poor sucker who was forced to sell it, Labor policy at its best.
Give me a break we can't do this for the next two years.


----------



## IFocus (16 July 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Another way of looking at it would be, all those people on the job queue who are trying to pay their mortgage, ask them how they would feel if investors weren't able to buy their houses?
> But hey that would be fine, because the rich could pick them up cheap knock them over build a new $hitbox and rent it back to them.
> Also they could have negative geared it and received a government subsidy, for renting it back to the poor sucker who was forced to sell it, Labor policy at its best.
> Give me a break we can't do this for the next two years.




No idea where you are going here the Coalition are in government not Labor.


----------



## sptrawler (16 July 2020)

IFocus said:


> No idea where you are going here the Coalition are in government not Labor.



Yep, nothing to see there.

Let's not talk last election policy, let's talk about Labour 10 years ago, who were thrown out anyway.

Why not talk about the policy Labor took to the election last year? The result of those policies, if they had been elected, would now be tested.

Anyway long way to go, Albi seems to have some common sense, so maybe Labor can pull it back.
I look forward to catching up with you at the Falcon polling booth.
The other thing I will give you a tip on, most of my circle are grass roots people and while you are flying the flag the grass roots aren't standing behind you.
Trust me.


----------



## IFocus (17 July 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Anyway long way to go, Albi seems to have some common sense, so maybe Labor can pull it back.
> I look forward to catching up with you at the Falcon polling booth..




I'll give you a how to vote Labor card


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## IFocus (17 July 2020)

Here is a good example of Coalition policy at work

*Cashed-up university sector accused of hypocrisy over mass casualisation of workforce, job losses

It reveals a record 68.74 per cent of staff are employed as casuals or short-term contracts.

"They [the teachers] have no financial security and that means it's difficult to take holidays, get mortgages, plan a family but it's also that chronic insecurity leads to stress and problems of emotional wellbeing,"

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07...-workforce-redundancies-dirty-secret/12462030*


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## SirRumpole (17 July 2020)

The PM just announced $400 million for the film industry.

Am I going to criticise him for "socialist" policies ? 

No, but will he do the same for manufacturing or EV's ?

We wait with baited breath. 

But I really wish he would get rid of that idiot Cash.


----------



## moXJO (17 July 2020)

IFocus said:


> Here is a good example of Coalition policy at work
> 
> *Cashed-up university sector accused of hypocrisy over mass casualisation of workforce, job losses
> 
> ...



Universities are anti liberal. That's a case of lefties not wanting to employ lefties full time. And its in labor states.
God... I could only imagine running that "safe space clusterfluck".


----------



## moXJO (17 July 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> The PM just announced $400 million for the film industry.
> 
> Am I going to criticise him for "socialist" policies ?
> 
> ...



Scomo, our most socialist PM ever?
Thats also hated by socialists wanting socialism from a Twitter approved source.

God I hate 2020.


----------



## SirRumpole (17 July 2020)

moXJO said:


> Universities are anti liberal.




What else is new ?


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## IFocus (17 July 2020)

moXJO said:


> Universities are anti liberal. That's a case of lefties not wanting to employ lefties full time. And its in labor states.
> God... I could only imagine running that "safe space clusterfluck".




Not so sure Vice Chancellors are lefties these days as its big business worth billions with VC's getting paid millions, the causal employment rates have been an outrage for quite some time.


----------



## Smurf1976 (18 July 2020)

IFocus said:


> Again the numbers support my position, greatest transfer of wealth ever, stagnant wages, deteriorating workers rights, labour being casualised, stripping of penalty rates, continued attacked on unions (nurses and firemen's), killing off of youth training / apprenticeships (Tafe) just for starters.




No argument there but the apprenticeship system was gutted when Keating was PM and has never been restored.

Not that I'm really blaming him for it, at least not fully, but it's 25+ years now since the "old" system really existed. Ever since then, the approach has been train for the minimum mostly, it's only the odd random employer (mostly the big ones) that's willing to do better.


----------



## moXJO (18 July 2020)

IFocus said:


> Not so sure Vice Chancellors are lefties these days as its big business worth billions with VC's getting paid millions, the causal employment rates have been an outrage for quite some time.




Hollywood/film industry is another example. University are known flog factories of the left.


----------



## orr (18 July 2020)

moXJO said:


> Hollywood/film industry is another example. University are known flog factories of the left.




If... ever heard of bloke named Kipling?
If 'those of the right '  were capable of writing and creating profitable cinema would capitalism have a place for them???
 Or as you sir imply; those of the 'right' with such skills would be ignored and left to wither. At the expense of the profit that could be made. 

It is not case is it...
Conservatives, are as is empirically exemplified by the hollywood example you elude to, are uncreative unimaginative and boring by enlarge... They may have their place but it is not in envisaging a better future for humanity.

Check out the Film "Trumbo" says it all.... I can never watch the first 15 minutes without being reminded of the track by 'Millions of Dead Cops' "_John Wayne was a NAZI_"

Dan Andrews... Without even trying making Murdock's shills and Aloha Schmuck Schmo look like the clowns farts they are, if only they were only that dangerous and ephemural.


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## wayneL (18 July 2020)

orr said:


> If... ever heard of bloke named Kipling?
> If 'those of the right '  were capable of writing and creating profitable cinema would capitalism have a place for them???
> Or as you sir imply; those of the 'right' with such skills would be ignored and left to wither. At the expense of the profit that could be made.
> 
> ...




Yep agree.

The liberal arts are inspirational

https://share.par.pw/post/e67165979a944216a1f3aa14dcbe5432


----------



## moXJO (19 July 2020)

orr said:


> If... ever heard of bloke named Kipling?
> If 'those of the right '  were capable of writing and creating profitable cinema would capitalism have a place for them???
> Or as you sir imply; those of the 'right' with such skills would be ignored and left to wither. At the expense of the profit that could be made.
> 
> ...



Dan Andrews signed up to belt and road. Reinfected Australia with his shitty leadership.
The guy is actually dangerous.


----------



## sptrawler (19 July 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> No argument there but the apprenticeship system was gutted when Keating was PM and has never been restored.
> 
> Not that I'm really blaming him for it, at least not fully, but it's 25+ years now since the "old" system really existed. Ever since then, the approach has been train for the minimum mostly, it's only the odd random employer (mostly the big ones) that's willing to do better.



Add to that the competency system that was pushed to give pay rises, but it undermined the holistic apprenticeship system, where the apprentice was taught all aspects of the trade.
The unions didn't mind the pay rises at the time, now the chickens come home to roost, they point their finger everywhere.


----------



## sptrawler (19 July 2020)

Even poor old honest Nick, gets a spray from Malcolm, the ghost who walks.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/mal...-declare-work-for-huawei-20200716-p55cta.html


----------



## Tink (20 July 2020)




----------



## IFocus (20 July 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Even poor old honest Nick, gets a spray from Malcolm, the ghost who walks.
> 
> https://www.smh.com.au/national/mal...-declare-work-for-huawei-20200716-p55cta.html




Yeah grubby politicians all sides would be nice to out some on his own party plenty to choose from.


----------



## basilio (30 July 2020)

So how essential is our Parliamentary system ? 
And if it is so good.... why has ScoMo decided ...it isn't ?

Hear the Coach..


----------



## SirRumpole (30 July 2020)

basilio said:


> So how essential is our Parliamentary system ?
> And if it is so good.... why has ScoMo decided ...it isn't ?
> 
> Hear the Coach..





Deeply rooted indeed. 

Could describe the whole country.


----------



## sptrawler (30 July 2020)

So what is the answer?


----------



## SirRumpole (30 July 2020)

sptrawler said:


> So what is the answer?




For starters , throwing some of these idiot bogans that deliberately violate the coviud rules into some quarantine center in the desert or Christmas island and make them pay for it. Who knows how many cases these cretins caused because they were selfish enough to go to a party in Victoria then go back to Qld.


----------



## sptrawler (30 July 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> For starters , throwing some of these idiot bogans that deliberately violate the coviud rules into some quarantine center in the desert or Christmas island and make them pay for it. Who knows how many cases these cretins caused because they were selfish enough to go to a party in Victoria then go back to Qld.



Well the problem with that is, they are entitled, why does Palmer want to open up the W.A border when the rest of the Country is in the $hit? Because he can.
Read any of the threads on ASF, the loudest and proudest mostly have the least amount of knowledge on the subject they are outspoken about.
They use any chook fodder, to support their beliefs, without any underlying knowledge in the issue.
It is all about 24/7 five minute clips, to catch the perfect FW, that will carry the banner, then the media follow the banner and chaos they have ignited.
Great lol
Without getting personal, I think there are plenty on here who are screaming climate change and want taxpayers money thrown at it, who in reality could quite easily throw their own money at it.
But as usual it is better to fan the fire rather than put your own fuel in.
Why don't they just lead by example, rather than throw everyone under the bus.lol


----------



## Macquack (31 July 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> For starters , throwing some of these idiot bogans that deliberately violate the coviud rules into some quarantine center in the desert or Christmas island and make them pay for it.



I think they should have their God damn awful artificial lips deflated as punishment.


----------



## SirRumpole (31 July 2020)

Macquack said:


> I think they should have their God damn awful artificial lips deflated as punishment.




There was a report on ABC this morning that they may have been involved in some sort of smuggling operation between States.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-31/coronavirus-queensland-logan-cases-diana-lasu-family/12507852


----------



## IFocus (31 July 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> For starters , throwing some of these idiot bogans that deliberately violate the coviud rules into some quarantine center in the desert or Christmas island and make them pay for it. Who knows how many cases these cretins caused because they were selfish enough to go to a party in Victoria then go back to Qld.




Can we include Clive with them?


----------



## orr (31 July 2020)

basilio said:


> So how essential is our Parliamentary system ?
> And if it is so good....* why has ScoMo decided ...it isn't *?
> 
> Hear the Coach..





Simply; as has been repeatedly shown The man detests scrutiny. He's not up to the task. He plays from well behind, this blokes not even on the reserve bench he's orange boy and is never without an excuse for his and this pitiful administrations failings. Do we all want them all listed???(go on fan boy's just ask) ....Fossil energy is pulling his strings; Junior school math tells anyone 'it ain't the future.
And we all lose.

I'm taking it as read that your question is retorical Bas...

So Where's Dutton ?
Where's Taylor?
Where's Cash?
You know why you're not hearing from them... Because Schmuck Schmo knows the Marketing speak 'Nobody Knows how stupid you are until you tell them'..._so keep them away from the mic_..... What a ministry.


----------



## IFocus (14 August 2020)

Who would have thought Coalition had already blown the budget

Jim Chalmers says two-thirds of the debt in the budget was borrowed before the start of the pandemic. Is he correct?

*The verdict*
Mr Chalmers is correct.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08..._Plntf4csYYoRT76str2cWXhhgJ647V_HZaHw9W5jVjWw


----------



## orr (14 August 2020)

An erudite expose' ... the answer to anyone who's under the delusion that Schmo is _anything _good.
From the protector of paedophiles to; does his sacking from Tourism Australia have a basis in criminality? and so much more ineptitude...
Do the country and yourself a favour and know just who Scott John Morrison is...


----------



## sptrawler (14 August 2020)

Yes he has crucified those most needy.
Get a life guys, maybe he should have served up school canteens and pink batts.
He could be JC himself and you two would still bitch on.


----------



## moXJO (14 August 2020)

IFocus said:


> Who would have thought Coalition had already blown the budget
> 
> Jim Chalmers says two-thirds of the debt in the budget was borrowed before the start of the pandemic. Is he correct?
> 
> ...



Ahhh... this thing called Covid came along.


----------



## wayneL (25 August 2020)

wayneL said:


> Not really, I haven't been following a long very closely. Been busy getting myself extraordinarily alarmed at both the history and current actions of Central Banks... And getting bent out of shape about the current discussion on bail ins in our own banking system.



This fascist cabal has knocked back the bail-in amendment.

Keep a close eye on your bank's financial health folks.


----------



## sptrawler (25 August 2020)

wayneL said:


> This fascist cabal has knocked back the bail-in amendment.
> 
> Keep a close eye on your bank's financial health folks.



It is difficult for people to do much about it, their pay goes into the bank and most have a credit card, it is hard not to use a bank so how do you chose?


----------



## wayneL (25 August 2020)

sptrawler said:


> It is difficult for people to do much about it, their pay goes into the bank and most have a credit card, it is hard not to use a bank so how do you chose?



I don't see your problem if people are using the bank as a transaction account, but those who have substantial cash savings should be very concerned, as bail in provisions can apply before the government's $250,000 guarantee. Bale in is designed to obviate bailouts via.

It is also worth noting that the invocation of the deposit guarantee is discretionary, it only applies if the government decides to apply it.

I'm quite well acquainted with the family of a federal senator and they keep as little cash in the bank as is practical.


----------



## sptrawler (25 August 2020)

wayneL said:


> I don't see your problem if people are using the bank as a transaction account, but those who have substantial cash savings should be very concerned, as bail in provisions can apply before the government's $250,000 guarantee. Bale in is designed to obviate bailouts via.
> 
> It is also worth noting that the invocation of the deposit guarantee is discretionary, it only applies if the government decides to apply it.
> 
> I'm quite well acquainted with the family of a federal senator and they keep as little cash in the bank as is practical.



That's difficult if you have a SMSF term deposit.
However the repercussions of raiding superannuation accounts, would have far reaching implications.


----------



## wayneL (25 August 2020)

sptrawler said:


> That's difficult if you have a SMSF term deposit.
> However the repercussions of raiding superannuation accounts, would have far reaching implications.



Yep, one should be very concerned about.


----------



## sptrawler (25 August 2020)

wayneL said:


> Yep, one should be very concerned about.



If they raided the super accounts, how much is in super? 3 trillion? a class action that size would hurt.
Having said that, from memory the last time I rolled over the U Bank term deposit, I think I read they are not taking any more new SMSF term deposits. That might suggest a flag.


----------



## wayneL (25 August 2020)

sptrawler said:


> If they raided the super accounts, how much is in super? 3 trillion? a class action that size would hurt.
> Having said that, from memory the last time I rolled over the U Bank term deposit, I think I read they are not taking any more new SMSF term deposits. That might suggest a flag.



Technically, your cash deposit is converted to equity to recapitalise the bank, however that equity is then subject to the vagaries of the market, which will take a dim view of the bank having to recapitalise.


----------



## sptrawler (25 August 2020)

wayneL said:


> Technically, your cash deposit is converted to equity to recapitalise the bank, however that equity is then subject to the vagaries of the market, which will take a dim view of the bank having to recapitalise.



I think with super the ability of the bank to do anything with it would be problematic, as it has special legislative protections, as when a company goes belly up.
So that could be the reason Ubank no longer offers accounts for SMSF's, but is honouring established ones, that becomes a known and fixed cost. Who knows?


----------



## PZ99 (25 August 2020)

If you're thinking of taking your cash out make sure it's less than $10k each time.

Do it on a Tuesday when the petrol's cheap


----------



## wayneL (25 August 2020)

PZ99 said:


> If you're thinking of taking your cash out make sure it's less than $10k each time.
> 
> Do it on a Tuesday when the petrol's cheap




Cash is trash. 

Hard assets are the go.


----------



## orr (26 August 2020)

Hardly surprising that people are drawn to the conclusion of equivalence between the National financial security of Cyprus and that of Australia under the appalling tenure of Aloha Schmo and his cabal of donkey's arses....

The bigger question;
      a/ Bail-in?
      b/ Bail-out?
Or   c/ let'm fail?

Of course For Schmuck schmo there's option;
 d/ that it all goes down on the day of the rapture... hallelujah...

Nationalisation of course is in another  unobtainable dimension...


----------



## sptrawler (26 August 2020)

orr said:


> Hardly surprising that people are drawn to the conclusion of equivalence between the National financial security of Cyprus and that of Australia under the appalling tenure of Aloha Schmo and his cabal of donkey's arses....
> 
> The bigger question;
> a/ Bail-in?
> ...



So I guess Scott, is off your Christmas card list, orr?


----------



## Clansman (27 August 2020)

orr said:


> Hardly surprising that people are drawn to the conclusion of equivalence between the National financial security of Cyprus and that of Australia under the appalling tenure of Aloha Schmo and his cabal of donkey's arses....
> 
> The bigger question;
> a/ Bail-in?
> ...




We can all pretend to be intellectuals online, but doing the crossword in the weekend newspaper doesn't qualify you as one.  Morrison hasn't claimed to be the perfect or "final" solution. But the alternatives have never even had a pre cursor to either?
Speaking of Donkeys, orr kind of strikes a chord with them.... Because you and I know that's the slant.
.


----------



## IFocus (18 September 2020)

*Hot air and pants on fire: Fact checking the PM’s gas lighting*












						Hot air and pants on fire: Fact checking the PM's gas lighting | The New Daily
					

The Prime Minister was in full #ScottyfromMarketing mode on Tuesday to sell his government’s increased commitment to fossil fuels – but was it all hot air?




					thenewdaily.com.au


----------



## sptrawler (18 September 2020)

IFocus said:


> *Hot air and pants on fire: Fact checking the PM’s gas lighting*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It is interesting that at last someone is doing something about the strategic oil reserves, it has been a problem for a long time.


----------



## Smurf1976 (18 September 2020)

sptrawler said:


> It is interesting that at last someone is doing something about the strategic oil reserves, it has been a problem for a long time.



It's fair to say that the COVID-19 situation has scared the proverbial out of government over a few things, not least because the effects and economic cost of the pandemic has thus far been rather trivial compared to what a major fuel disruption would do.  All of a sudden there's a realisation that bad things actually can happen.


----------



## basilio (19 September 2020)

How many times does the  Government need to be told hey are acting illegally  ?

*Robodebt court documents show 
government was warned 76 times debts were not legally enforceable*
Exclusive: statement of claim names Alan Tudge as among a handful of insiders aware program flawed

The federal government was warned 76 times by a tribunal that Centrelink robodebts were not legally enforceable, according to court documents.

Gordon Legal claims that the dozens of judgments– which were previously hidden from public view – show the government knew the scheme was unlawful because it declined to appeal on every occasion.

In a fresh statement of claim filed days before a federal court trial, the firm also names government minister Alan Tudge among a handful of insiders said to be aware the program was flawed as early as January 2017.





And it alleged several instances through 2017 and 2018 where top officials were made aware how people caught up in the program were threatening self-harm while on the phone to Centrelink staff.









						Robodebt court documents show government was warned 76 times debts were not legally enforceable
					

Exclusive: statement of claim names Alan Tudge as among a handful of insiders aware program flawed




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## orr (20 September 2020)

basilio said:


> How many times does the  Government need to be told hey are acting illegally  ?
> 
> *Robodebt court documents show
> government was warned 76 times debts were not legally enforceable*




My Answer to your question Bas would be... Once. If the a Fedral ICAC was in place . One that the vast majority of Australians want. The one that Schmo is working as dilagently and studiously to avoid.
Viva a gas fired economic delinquent future if Scmuck from Marketing is able to jam it down an incredulous populations neck.

p.s I was unable to touch this thread whilst the last poster was the 'Clansman'... you don't play with perfection.


----------



## sptrawler (21 September 2020)

orr said:


> Viva a gas fired economic delinquent future if Scmuck from Marketing is able to jam it down an incredulous populations neck.



All the ducks seem to be lining up for the man from marketing, the rhetoric will resonate with the majority IMO, it will be difficult for the green sector to argue against common sense, that will just undermine their credibility. Interesting times.








						Hydrogen to follow gas in bid for net zero emissions
					

Hydrogen power will be central to a new federal energy road map to move Australia away from fossil fuels.




					www.smh.com.au
				




_A national bet on hydrogen power will be central to a new federal energy road map to move away from fossil fuels, as Prime Minister Scott Morrison promises a plan to achieve net zero carbon emissions.

The technology road map will be aimed at creating a clean energy industry that can ship hydrogen to customers such as Japan and South Korea and building a new export industry to replace gas.

"We are committed to investing in the technology which reduces emissions in this country. And I think those sort of things are achievable with the right investments in the right technology."_

I think Albo will reach a make or break situation over this issue, I guess time will tell, but to me there is a lot of gapping holes Albo could fall through chasing this subject. He really needs to tread carefully IMO.


----------



## PZ99 (21 September 2020)

Albo should do the sensible thing and just wait for the lights to go out when people working from home overload the grid with air-con use during summer.

2 points if he can time it right


----------



## Chronos-Plutus (21 September 2020)

PZ99 said:


> Albo should do the sensible thing and just wait for the lights to go out when people working from home overload the grid with air-con use during summer.
> 
> 2 points if he can time it right




It is all going to fall apart for the Scomo administration. Trimming the JobKepper and JobSeeker now is going to be an absolute disaster. 

What I find absurd is that the main argument that the Coalition have for trimming the JobKeeper and JobSeeker is that a small group of businesses, who are unrepresentative of the economy, have complained that they can find people to work. 

Well these businesses complaining should be blasted all over the media. Who are these businesses? What industries are they in? What jobs are they offering? What pay are they offering for these jobs?


----------



## moXJO (23 September 2020)

Never agreed with libs scrapping nbn and now its fibre to the home.

Mega backflip.


----------



## sptrawler (23 September 2020)

moXJO said:


> Never agreed with libs scrapping nbn and now its fibre to the home.
> 
> Mega backflip.



Only if you sign up to a high data speed service plan, makes sense to me, I know heaps of dwellings that already have fibre to the house and no connection. Including mine.👍


----------



## moXJO (23 September 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Only if you sign up to a high data speed service plan, makes sense to me, I know heaps of dwellings that already have fibre to the house and no connection. Including mine.👍



Its painfully slow where I am. Coved lock down really pushed the limit.


----------



## sptrawler (23 September 2020)

moXJO said:


> Its painfully slow where I am. Coved lock down really pushed the limit.



Well this should be great news.
To me from a non subjective perspective as I really don't need bling speed, I think the way it has been rolled out makes technical and fiscal sense, not so much political sense
Being an electrician, I do know the worst part of the install will be the last bit from the verge into the house through a 25mm conduit, cracked and broken by gardeners over the last 50 years.
Those who want bling speed and fibre to the house can now get it, those who don't need or want it don't have to incur the extra cost of installation or more expensive plans.
If at a later date it becomes a requirement to have fibre to receive a service, I'm sure the service provider will upgrade it from the node, at their cost or part of a plan.
Just read this.








						The NBN is getting an upgrade, but does that mean your internet's about to get faster?
					

Millions of Australians are set to get access to high-speed internet as the NBN is upgraded over the next three years. Here's what you need to know about whether that includes you.




					www.abc.net.au
				



_In 2013 the Government scrapped a plan by the Labor Party to connect people's houses directly to the NBN, instead opting to connect the fibre to a node at the end of people's streets, and then use pre-existing cables to connect to people's houses from there.

Mr Fletcher said the planned upgrades were always on the cards and rejected suggestions that the announcement was a backflip on the Government's original policy.

"What we had always had in mind was that as demand increased, if there was a case to upgrade the network we'd be interested to do that," Mr Fletcher said.

He also said that while the plan came at a good time during the coronavirus pandemic and economic fallout, it was not timed specifically to help as part of the recovery_.

Makes absolute sense, keep costs to a minimum and connect the crappy bit as required.


----------



## IFocus (23 September 2020)

Abbott repeatedly said he would destroy the NBN it was pure politics Poms were right he was a failed PM, Turnbull to his credit managed to stich together a compromised with a  BS story  it will be cheaper. We are well behind the world for internet speed access.

It was always a cluster technically and now will cost more to run the fibre.

SP you may still only need dial up but for those working from home you do need bandwidth to run the applications that organizations use to run their businesses these days that's long before you get to live zoom etc.  

You can tell the crap Australian internet with many of the live takes on TV since COVID started.


----------



## PZ99 (23 September 2020)

So it's going to be the same NBN promised by the ALP but with a coalition cost blowout flustercuck.

Speaking of which... it'll be nice to see the WA premier counter-sue the crap out of Clive Palmer


----------



## Smurf1976 (23 September 2020)

IFocus said:


> Turnbull to his credit managed to stich together a compromised with a BS story it will be cheaper.



Reminds me of that quote "politics is the art of the possible".

Faced with a choice of a half baked approach or nothing, he went for the half baked one.


----------



## SirRumpole (24 September 2020)

"Build it and they will come"

Economies of scale would indicate its cheaper to give it to everyone than roll it out piecemeal.

The whole issue has been a political w@nk by the LNP. Labor had a good idea, so it must be destroyed.

Disgusting really.


----------



## Knobby22 (24 September 2020)

Waste of money. Do it once, do it right.


----------



## sptrawler (24 September 2020)

Waste of money from day one, it was the telco's responsibility to upgrade it, not the taxpayer's. At least now those who want it will have to use it, i would much prefer a complete wireless connection for the portability, but we have been over this thousands of times and the arguments are still the same.
This is the reality:








						NBN fibre upgrade a defence against looming 5G assault
					

NBN Co's $3.5 billion fibre upgrade plan is designed to make Telstra and the other telcos reconsider their ambitions ahead of next year's 5G spectrum auctions.




					www.smh.com.au
				



From the article:

_The Morrison government’s $3.5 billion upgrade path for the National Broadband Network has less to do with gold plating connections for select homes and businesses than sending a clear message to telcos, most notably Telstra, to rethink their 5G ambitions.

It's a defensive move that gives Telstra, Optus and TPG food for thought as they gear up to bid for lucrative 5G spectrum coming up for auction next year. It's also an acknowledgement from NBN Co that it needs to stay a step ahead of the competitive threat posed by 5G services_.
_While NBN Co was always going to lose some homes to fixed-wireless services, which deliver a better return to the telcos, the magnitude of the threat posed by 5G has increased considerably in recent months. Reselling NBN fixed-line plans remains an unhappy endeavour for the telcos as the high wholesale prices leave little on the table for the resellers_.

At least now those who want fibre to the home and use it will contribute and those that don't want high speed or a connection at all, wont be paying for the last mile. win/win IMO
The NBN to me is a bit like the taxpayer putting batteries in every house and AGL etc charging you more for the privilege of using them. 
A lot of people just want a phone and they paid next to nothing for it, now they have a box that costs lots more and fails when the power fails. 👍 
Just my opinion.


----------



## Smurf1976 (24 September 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Waste of money from day one, it was the telco's responsibility to upgrade it, not the taxpayer's.



I see a distinct similarity with the energy situation.

Plan.

Need one of those before building things. A plan for what the ultimate outcome looks like be that fixed or mobile (or coal or solar) etc.

Just building bits of infrastructure randomly, in any situation from roads to water, with no proper plan on how it's all going to worth together is akin to choosing stocks by throwing darts at the sharemarket page in the newspaper. Gambling at best. 

Plan a proper communications network and build it.

Plan a properly reliable power supply which is acceptable environmentally etc and build it.

Etc. In both cases that planning will take into account what's already there, what its useful remaining life is both in terms of wearing out and being relevant, and decide how to proceed. Then it's just a matter of getting on and building it.


----------



## basilio (12 November 2020)

*Liberal Ministers Reaffirm Position That Marriage Is A Sacred Union Between A Woman, A Man And His Bit On The Side   * 







Government Ministers Alan Tudge and Christian Porter have come out swinging following last night’s Four Corner’s investigation, saying they’ve always believed in the traditional definition of marriage, which is between a man and woman and another woman.

Mr Tudge, who campaigned strongly against same-sex marriage laws in 2017, said the whole notion of marriage was about providing a loving bond for the benefit of children.

“My view is that marriage is an institution that traditionally has been about creating a bond for the creation, love and care of children. A marriage is about giving a child a biological mother and a biological father. And a step mother and a half sister,” Mr Tudge said.

Mr Porter said he was a man of family values. “I have my traditional family in Perth and my fun family in Canberra. It’s all about families for me,” he said.

“It’s not my role to tell other people how to live their lives, but that’s what I do anyway”








						Liberal Ministers Reaffirm Position That Marriage Is A Sacred Union Between A Woman, A Man And His Bit On The Side
					

"It's about giving a child a biological mother and father. And a step mother and a half sister,”




					www.theshovel.com.au


----------



## sptrawler (12 November 2020)

I thought their marriages had broken down?


----------



## Macquack (12 November 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I thought their marriages had broken down?



Just like Banaby Joyce, marriage broke down after he got caught out.


----------



## sptrawler (12 November 2020)

Macquack said:


> Just like Banaby Joyce, marriage broke down after he got caught out.



Jeez that is unusual lol, I wouldnt mind a dollar for every bloke Ive known, who have gone down that road. Really dumb.


----------



## IFocus (13 November 2020)

I wonder if Porter exited WA politics because Barney wouldn't cop his behaviour?

It was unusual because he would have been a shoe in for leader after Barney I would have thought.


----------



## basilio (23 November 2020)

*Whoops! Federal Court Accidentally Fines Government Wrong Amount For Robodebt Compensation Claim          * 

In what has been described as an ‘administrative error’, the Federal Court has ordered the Government to pay Robodebt victims $120 billion, instead of the originally agreed amount of $1.2 billion. The Government will be required to pay the higher amount anyway.

When asked to explain how the figures were calculated, a spokesperson for the victims said it was based on complex maths that they wouldn’t understand.

“We’ve used algorithms and big formulas which you don’t need to worry about. Just pay the amount listed on the piece of paper we sent you and all of this will go away”.

When pushed further, the spokesperson explained, “We’ve used an income averaging method, which takes an average of the money owed, multiplies it by ten and then adds a zero. It’s 100% accurate around 8% of the time”.

When Government officials pointed out that the amount was incorrect the victims’ spokesperson said, “prove it”.









						Whoops! Federal Court Accidentally Fines Government Wrong Amount For Robodebt Compensation Claim
					

"It's based on complex maths that you wouldn’t understand"




					www.theshovel.com.au


----------



## orr (26 November 2020)

From Schmuck himself early in the year;

“_Matt Kean doesn’t know what he’s talking about; he doesn’t know what’s going on in the federal cabinet [and] most of the federal cabinet wouldn’t even know who Matt Kean was_.”

Yet another example of both Slowmo's and his cabinets boundless  ignorance;
And this week:
"Let’s not underestimate what the NSW energy and environment minister, Matt Kean, pulled off on Wednesday when the state parliament finally passed the Electricity Infrastructure Investment Bill,"
"The bill will unlock $32 billion of investment over the next decade, and will deliver 12 gigawatts of renewable energy and 2GW of storage in five zones across NSW, creating 6300 construction jobs and 2800 ongoing jobs, and lowering average household electricity prices"....

The Steggel model is lasering in on the 'Brillo' topped bozo Craig Kelly & others...  Schmuck with a one seat majority; the worm squirms...


----------



## sptrawler (26 November 2020)

orr said:


> From Schmuck himself early in the year;
> 
> “_Matt Kean doesn’t know what he’s talking about; he doesn’t know what’s going on in the federal cabinet [and] most of the federal cabinet wouldn’t even know who Matt Kean was_.”
> 
> ...



So it should, the States are responsible for their elecricity networks, they are the ones who either own or privatised their infrastructure, they should be taking steps to faciltate those who have the stranded assets to have the ability to transition to renewables.
Its funny how the Federal Government is responsible for the States problem, until the States can make some political mileage, then all of a sudden the States man up and tell the Federal Government to butt out of State business.
There are a lot of shrills on here.


----------



## IFocus (26 November 2020)

sptrawler said:


> So it should, the States are responsible for their elecricity networks, they are the ones who either own or privatised their infrastructure, they should be taking steps to faciltate those who have the stranded assets to have the ability to transition to renewables.
> Its funny how the Federal Government is responsible for the States problem, until the States can make some political mileage, then all of a sudden the States man up and tell the Federal Government to butt out of State business.
> There are a lot of shrills on here.





No excuses for Craig Kelly I am afraid and the Morrison government has more pork barrel / scandal skeletons in the cupboard than anyone before them.

See Robo debt was inline for use of the pork barrel fund?

People died for those low life's.


----------



## sptrawler (26 November 2020)

IFocus said:


> No excuses for Craig Kelly I am afraid and the Morrison government has more pork barrel / scandal skeletons in the cupboard than anyone before them.
> 
> See Robo debt was inline for use of the pork barrel fund?
> 
> People died for those low life's.



I suppose now Trump's gone, you have to move on to someone else.
It will be interesting to see when Labor get in, if they stop the ATO from computer benchmarking and data matching, I think not.
By the way, people died from pink batts and I forked out for batts and robo debt go figure.
Maybe it was a shame pork barreling went on then, rather than jobseeker and jobkeeper, no it was shonky school canteens and fly by night batt installers.
But hey let's forget the history.lol
Talk about lack of gratitude and tribal politics, luckily you will get what you sow IMO.


----------



## IFocus (26 November 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I suppose now Trump's gone, you have to move on to someone else.
> It will be interesting to see when Labor get in, if they stop the ATO from computer benchmarking and data matching, I think not.
> By the way, people died from pink batts and I forked out for batts and robo debt go figure.
> Maybe it was a shame pork barreling went on then, rather than jobseeker and jobkeeper, no it was shonky school canteens and fly by night batt installers.
> ...




You have lost the plot SP nothing to do with Trump the current Morrison government is beset with major compromisers regarding pork barrelling and inadept ministers.

You equate pink batts with Robo debt?  

How so? One is a benefit the other persecution of our county's weakest and most vulnerable to add to the criminality it was to fund pork barrelling for marginal seats.

And if deaths is your gauge many more died as a result of Robo debt.

Its not tribal, the questions fail to be addressed.


----------



## sptrawler (26 November 2020)

IFocus said:


> You have lost the plot SP nothing to do with Trump the current Morrison government is beset with major compromisers regarding pork barrelling and inadept ministers.
> 
> You equate pink batts with Robo debt?
> 
> ...



What I dislike is cherry picking stupid incidence that could well have happened to either party, then using it to undermine any government of either persuasion, as technology improves AI will be used.
When it fails there is a cost, it is stupid to think one party will fall victim to it.
Jeez I could write a book on the shonky $hit that W.A inc got up to.
It really is time IMO, that people started viewing politics, as they do investing unemotionaly.
To put it another way, you and I agree Barny did a good job with W.A, he faught for a fair share of gst, but got no backing from Labor.
He was told to shut up and stop whinging, yet Labor started bitching about it as soon as the stained office.
He got on with the job, despite constant criticism and built infrastructure that W.A had been begging for years.
Now when he has gone the benefits are basically credited to McGowan, yet he criticized Barnett endlessly.
Now McGowan takes all the credit for Barnett's work and he is actually building on it, which is great.
Now back to Morison, the spend that has been done to help Australia over this problem is unbelievable, yet when it started you were comparing it to the great job Rudd did during the GfC, now instantly it is looking like is over and normality is returning, it is back to bagging Morisson.
Sorry it just does my head in, there is no way that any credit will be given by the left untill we are all on welfare IMO.
It's over and out from me. Get on with it commrade as you sit there on the balcony watching the sunset in the west.


----------



## moXJO (26 November 2020)

IFocus said:


> You have lost the plot SP nothing to do with Trump the current Morrison government is beset with major compromisers regarding pork barrelling and inadept ministers.
> 
> You equate pink batts with Robo debt?
> 
> ...



Morrison is a mixed bag. 
The robodebt was one of the more disgusting things to come out.
However it was the Gillard government to bring out the automated software I thought and Turnbull govt implemented the scheme?

I'm not blaming Labor, pointing out they started the cross checks, or something. Libs weaponized it. 

I dislike a lot Morrison has done. From net neutrality, stomping on rights. 
His plus side was he handled covid pretty well. The job keeper and seeker were pretty good. It made me rethink universal basic income. 

Internationally I'm still deciding. I'd say the next 12 months will be telling.


----------



## sptrawler (26 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> Morrison is a mixed bag.
> The robodebt was one of the more disgusting things to come out.
> However it was the Gillard government to bring out the automated software I thought and Turnbull govt implemented the scheme?
> 
> ...



The robo debt won't go away, I received a letter today from the ATO, that I'm sure is computer generated and I know if I don't sort it there will be a problem.
That is the way the world is going, my letter is to do with the SMSF and I will sort it.
As a Government they can't keep dropping taxes, supply the same services and not use AI to find who is dodging tax.
I was a project supervisor and to keep dropping the prices, you had to tighten up on the leakage, it is just good management
I could always ignore the letter and hope it is written off in a few years, but as I did with my daughter's debt, I quiried it, challenged it, then paid it.
I didn't think it was fair, but it was right, so I paid it and moved on.

So let's put it another way, what is Also and Labor offering? A guarantee to not allow the ATO to benchmark, datamatch and computer generated queries?
I don't think so.lol


----------



## IFocus (26 November 2020)

Gents Robo debt was started by Morrison no one else.

It was totally flawed from the start as well as illegal. The governments own communications shown this was known from the start.

It was a totally stand alone scheme.

The government paid out a fortune in compensation to stop the court case revealing just how bad it was.

Real people died as a consequence, Australia's most vulnerable and powerless.

I am not aware of any other event by any other Australian government State or Federal that compares.


----------



## moXJO (26 November 2020)

sptrawler said:


> The robo debt won't go away, I received a letter today from the ATO, that I'm sure is computer generated and I know if I don't sort it there will be a problem.
> That is the way the world is going, my letter is to do with the SMSF and I will sort it.
> As a Government they can't keep dropping taxes, supply the same services and not use AI to find who is dodging tax.
> I was a project supervisor and to keep dropping the prices, you had to tighten up on the leakage, it is just good management
> ...



Im not sold on super efficient systems when it comes to government. Eg there is a large cash underground for international students. Yeah you can stamp out cash. But  that cash was splashing round the system in positive ways. Students have limited ways to fund themselves in the first place. They buy from businesses local. Doing jobs no one here really want to do. 

I'm not sold on government being efficient on taking our money. Yet spend and waste with little thought of who suffered for that dollar.


----------



## moXJO (27 November 2020)

IFocus said:


> Gents Robo debt was started by Morrison no one else.
> 
> It was totally flawed from the start as well as illegal. The governments own communications shown this was known from the start.
> 
> ...



I'll take your word for it. Wouldn't surprise me to tell you the truth. I thought it was a disgusting way to cause people stress. If you are poor and being hounded with threats of losing the little you have, it would be horrific.

Labor needs to man up to a credible alternative. Not some PC limpwristed fantasy hug fest. Lose half your front bench. The right faction actually showed a bit of promise.


----------



## sptrawler (27 November 2020)

IFocus said:


> Gents Robo debt was started by Morrison no one else.
> 
> It was totally flawed from the start as well as illegal. The governments own communications shown this was known from the start.
> 
> ...



Well I must check up and see if I can get back  the $6k I paid, because they said my deaf and disabled Daughter was overpaid single parent pension, when she had them by IVF and apparently didn't report her income correctly.


----------



## IFocus (27 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> I'll take your word for it. Wouldn't surprise me to tell you the truth. I thought it was a disgusting way to cause people stress. If you are poor and being hounded with threats of losing the little you have, it would be horrific.
> 
> Labor needs to man up to a credible alternative. Not some PC limpwristed fantasy hug fest. Lose half your front bench. The right faction actually showed a bit of promise.





Labor have been very weak against Morrison who by far has been better at the look /  game of politics, I wouldn't be surprised to see Morrison win another term.


----------



## IFocus (27 November 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Well I must check up and see if I can get back  the $6k I paid, because they said my deaf and disabled Daughter was overpaid single parent pension, when she had them by IVF and apparently didn't report her income correctly.




SP you should follow up there is not only backpay back for wrongful payments but also compensation, good luck hope you have a win.


----------



## sptrawler (27 November 2020)

I don't think so, the repayment request came in 2018, for overpayments from 2013 to 2015, my daughter had all her payslips and sent them in.
The problem related to her not reporting her pay every payday, she was meant to phone them in, but she can't use a phone as she is deaf and as she worked, could attend Centrelink also Centrelink had no SMS facility.
She thought as per her family tax benefit, it was done through her group certificate, in 2015 they introduced an app so she could enter her info.
Then in 2018 she was busted for $6k from 2013 to 2015, suck it up princess, it is shame she works, she has enough challenges to have been on disability all her life, then she would be classed as special and could have sat in Centrelink all day to report.  But that isn't her.
It's a weird world we live in. IMO


----------



## wayneL (27 November 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I don't think so, the repayment request came in 2018, for overpayments from 2013 to 2015, my daughter had all her payslips and sent them in.
> The problem related to her not reporting her pay every payday, she was meant to phone them in, but she can't use a phone as she is deaf and as she worked, could attend Centrelink also Centrelink had no SMS facility.
> She thought as per her family tax benefit, it was done through her group certificate, in 2015 they introduced an app so she could enter her info.
> Then in 2018 she was busted for $6k from 2013 to 2015, suck it up princess, it is shame she works, she has enough challenges to have been on disability all her life, then she would be classed as special and could have sat in Centrelink all day to report.  But that isn't her.
> It's a weird world we live in. IMO



That is truly ****ed up man.

Governments demand laser like accuracy in reporting everything under threat of stiff penalty, yet are profligate, wasteful and corrupt themselves.

And you know what? I'd  bet it wouldn't even pay off electorally if any of the parties did clean up their act... Just how politics is played. 

It's just bollox.


----------



## sptrawler (28 November 2020)

wayneL said:


> That is truly ****ed up man.
> 
> Governments demand laser like accuracy in reporting everything under threat of stiff penalty, yet are profligate, wasteful and corrupt themselves.
> 
> ...



Yes the really annoying part is, she would have done the reporting correcly if she had been told, she takes great pride in paying her own way.
It was just when she originally applied for assistance, she had just had her first child through IVF, had no partner and lived on her own. So being deaf and being overwhelmed with info, she just didnt understand the reporting for family tax benefit and single parent assistance was different.
Another problem she had with centerlink was, because she couldnt name the father, they wouldnt help her with childcare, so it was costing her just about as much for childcare, as she was earning.
I had to eventually get authority to speak on her behalf and read them the riot act.
She hated it because she likes to be independent, but deaf people find it hard to get the information correct and also to explain themselves. Anyway  the ATO was correct abut the overpayment, but I felt thet were remiss in not following up initially to ensure she understood the proceedure and was reporting correctly. It was a bit rich to hit her years later. But thats life with the ATO.


----------



## sptrawler (1 December 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I did like the sound of the hypersonic weapons, now that's what we need and lots of them, cancel the subs and buy more hypersonic misiles.
> Actually talking about the diesel subs, they will have to be able to be shut down while travelling, so our new super duper underwater listening device can hear something.



Well someone must read ASF, hypersonic weapon testing comes back to Woomera.👍





__





						NoCookies | The Australian
					






					www.theaustralian.com.au
				




And a couple of historic flights.








						Hypersonic flight tests successful
					

The Defence,  Science and Technology (DST) Group and US Air Force Research Laboratory (AFRL)  have successfully completed experimental hypersonic flights tests at the Woomera Test Range. Minister fo




					www.defenceconnect.com.au
				








__





						Bullet-shaped scramjet put to the test  › News in Science (ABC Science)
					






					www.abc.net.au


----------



## IFocus (1 December 2020)

This is priceless


















						Brenda the Civil Disobedience Penguin on Mathias Cormann's OECD application: HE WHAT?! | First Dog on the Moon
					

Cormann is gleefully spouting his (newly discovered) green credentials while flying in a private taxpayer-funded jet around Europe




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## moXJO (2 December 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Well someone must read ASF, hypersonic weapon testing comes back to Woomera.👍
> 
> 
> 
> ...



We need hundreds of these to keep China off our arse.


----------



## sptrawler (18 January 2021)

Are we starting to see the fresh shoots, of media surgery starting on Scomo?  
Nice picture of Scott, chumming it up with the devil, to lead the story.😂








						Scott Morrison suggests Donald Trump’s comments before US Capitol riot were ‘incredibly disappointing’
					

Australian prime minister laments ‘things that were said’ to encourage Capitol Hill mob but says it’s not for him to lecture anybody




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## PZ99 (19 January 2021)

I'm betting a lazy bitcoin that ScoMo will get 3 terms unless he brings back workchoices or anything the equivalent thereof


----------



## sptrawler (19 January 2021)

PZ99 said:


> I'm betting a lazy bitcoin that ScoMo will get 3 terms unless he brings back workchoices or anything the equivalent thereof



Interesting call, I tend to think the media will start and undermine him, but the real problem the media has is the alternative isn't obvious at the moment.


----------



## wayneL (19 January 2021)

I still can't find anything The God Emporer said to incite anything, and certainly less than the other side which was inviting violence for months prior.


----------



## dutchie (19 January 2021)

wayneL said:


> I still can't find anything The God Emporer said to incite anything, and certainly less than the other side which was inviting violence for months prior.



The left desperately want him to have incited, so he must have (evidence optional).


----------



## PZ99 (19 January 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Interesting call, I tend to think the media will start and undermine him, *but the real problem the media has is the alternative isn't obvious at the moment.*



Agreed. ScoMo has two things going for him. No more Trump, and Labor hasn't got what it takes to win.

If I had to list the number of shadow ministers without using google, I would struggle to get past two.


----------



## IFocus (19 January 2021)

PZ99 said:


> Agreed. ScoMo has two things going for him. No more Trump, and Labor hasn't got what it takes to win.
> 
> If I had to list the number of shadow ministers without using google, I would struggle to get past two.





Morrison clearly is very good at playing I am everyone's best mate, daggy dad routine while hiding the dead bodies of scandal after scandal and really not a lot of damaged done.

This while removing penalty rates from the lowest paid and trying to bring in draconian laws covering nurses, police and fire unions.

I think he will get another term as Australia edges closer to US culture.


----------



## IFocus (19 January 2021)




----------



## IFocus (19 January 2021)

#Sportsrorts was the most egregious of the Morrison government’s grant frauds and the $3 billion Community Development Grants are by far the largest and most blatantly corrupt, but they are by no means the only pork barrels rolling through key electorates.

Regional seats in general and Queensland electorates in particular are being fed a steady diet of federal largesse for everything from parks and gardens to funding “Messy Play Days” at toy libraries. (Really – $19,935 for seven Messy Play Days, the stuff of ministerial press releases.

And now the potential political influence of federal handouts is being turbo-charged under the headline of COVID stimulus projects.













						Michael Pascoe: Grants rorts? Wait, there’s more …
					

#Sportsrorts was the most egregious and the $3 billion Community Development Grants the most blatantly corrupt, but they are not the only pork barrels.



					thenewdaily.com.au


----------



## sptrawler (20 January 2021)

I hope Albo, doesn't go too far down this road, it will be another shoot themselves in the foot story IMO.








						Labor calls for more assertive role in US relations under Biden leadership
					

Federal Opposition Leader Anthony Albanese accuses Prime Minister Scott Morrison of cosying up too closely to Donald Trump, warning Australia should be more assertive in its relations with the US amid Joe Biden's inauguration.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## IFocus (20 January 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I hope Albo, doesn't go too far down this road, it will be another shoot themselves in the foot story IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Sounds like politics to me an attempted wedge perhaps?


----------



## SirRumpole (2 February 2021)

A pretty blatant example of Morrison's morals and allegiances in his Press club Q&A today.

People who made mistakes through no fault of their own or indeed made no mistakes at all were harrassed by robodebt, some to the point of suicide, but companies who took taxpayers money to pay their employees but instead paid it to their already overpaid executives get off "Scott" free.

"Politics of envy" ? Absolute tripe. The politics of entitlement more like it.

Disgusting.


----------



## sptrawler (23 February 2021)

Jobseeker payment to increase $25/week from March.








						JobSeeker lifted by $25 a week as employers given dob-in powers
					

The dole will be lifted to $615.70 a fortnight when the coronavirus supplement ends in March while job seekers’ obligations will increase and employers will be able to report anyone refusing a job offer.




					www.smh.com.au


----------



## SirRumpole (24 February 2021)

Australia's submarine and warship projects are in trouble.

It will be interesting to see what the Defence Minister Reynolds says at the Press Club today.

Why can't we do big projects anymore ?

The Collins subs copped some criticism but were recognised as being very capable.

Our governments (both parties) seem to think that we can't do anything for ourselves anymore and leave it to foreign companies.

Bad move in my opinion.









						Frustrations and concerns grow over multi-billion-dollar submarine and warship programs
					

Defence Minister Linda Reynolds expresses "frustration" and "disappointment" with the French company building Australia's future submarines as she prepares to confront its visiting global chief executive over crucial contract negotiations.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## SirRumpole (24 February 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Australia's submarine and warship projects are in trouble.
> 
> It will be interesting to see what the Defence Minister Reynolds says at the Press Club today.
> 
> ...




Looks like we will have to wait for Linda Reynolds.

She has been admitted to hospital on the advice of her cardiologist.









						Defence Minister taken to hospital amid scrutiny over Parliament House rape scandal
					

Defence Minister Linda Reynolds is taking medical leave and is admitted to hospital as a "precautionary measure".




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## basilio (1 March 2021)

Check out Yes Ministers approach to government inquiries of potentially disastrous situations.
Very relevant as ScoMo grapples with three intersecting sexual assault stories .
The update on the allegations against a current senior Cabinet Minister in the Murdoch press is sharpening the ax. One critical element is that the incident occurred interstate.











						Warning to PM in rape claim letter
					

Scott Morrison is under pressure to stand down a minister at the centre of a historic rape allegation and to hold a parliamentary investigation after he received an anonymous letter, penned by “friends” of a dead woman who told police she was raped in 1988, calling for “justice”.




					www.news.com.au


----------



## basilio (1 March 2021)

*Background of the young girl at the focus of the allegations against a current Cabinet Minister from a woman who went to school with her.*

IMV there is no way the identity of the Minister can be kept out of the public domain. Not investigating it properly effectively tars 15 other Cabinet members with the same changes. After all it could be any of them.

Another critical issue is the likelihood  of other people coming forward with similar charges. Historically a person who has behaved and gotten way with the alleged assault will have plenty of form.  

*With the public uncertain about which Cabinet Minister is the gun,  the risk for all Ministers is that many more actions could come to life that touch other Ministers. * Of course there is no issue if there are no skeletons to be rattled...









						Why police won’t get justice in alleged rape
					

COMMENT




					www.news.com.au


----------



## SirRumpole (1 March 2021)

basilio said:


> *. * Of course there is no issue if there are no skeletons to be rattled...




Bill Shorten had similar accusations raised against him and it came to nothing.

He did not stand down as Leader of the Labor party.

Why should people stand down simply because of accusations ?

Of course if the police investigate and find enough documentation to indicate that a crime took place and a certain person was responsible, that's a different matter.


----------



## basilio (1 March 2021)

Chaser says it all. 

*Police call off investigation after burglar “categorically denies” robbing store*

March 1, 2021








Police trained at the Morrison institute for crime investigation have today solved every crime in Australia after asking the perpetrators if they did it, and then just letting them go if they say ‘no’. “Shockingly it turns out 100% of criminals in our murder investigations were wrongly accused,” explained one officer. “Even the ones where there was overwhelming evidence turned out to be innocent. It’s really changed our perspective on things.”

The new investigative technique, devised by Prime Minister Scott Morrison when investigating staff members, is expected to save law enforcement billions of dollars over the next ten years. “Finally we can allocate money to where it’s really needed,” explained one officer. “Like strip searching random teenagers on public transport. Because nothing makes people feel safer walking down the street than the threat that a bunch of adults might force teenagers to take their pants off. Round of applause for the boys in blue.”









						Police call off investigation after burglar “categorically denies” robbing store
					

"Case closed"




					chaser.com.au


----------



## SirRumpole (1 March 2021)

basilio said:


> Chaser says it all.
> 
> *Police call off investigation after burglar “categorically denies” robbing store*
> 
> ...




Political Satire ?


----------



## basilio (1 March 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Political Satire ?




Indeed it could be. 

Or it could be an accurate reflection of how ScoMos defense of the alleged Cabinet rapist is just so* LAME..
______________________________________*

Much, much activity around the net trying to discover/cover up who was where in Australia in 1988.



			https://twitter.com/noplaceforsheep


----------



## sptrawler (1 March 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Bill Shorten had similar accusations raised against him and it came to nothing.
> 
> He did not stand down as Leader of the Labor party.
> 
> ...



Until it is investigated, it is only trial by media, but that seems to satisfy a lot of the general public.
It would certainly be dumb of Morrison to sack anyone over unproven allegations, the police will no doubt investigate and if it is proven one would assume he will be jailed.


----------



## SirRumpole (1 March 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Until it is investigated, it is only trial by media, but that seems to satisfy a lot of the general public.
> It would certainly be dumb of Morrison to sack anyone over unproven allegations, the police will no doubt investigate and if it is proven one would assume he will be jailed.




Well, that's the problem with this case, the complainant is dead so it's unlikely the case will come to court.

The issue is whether Morrison is willing to have a possible rapist in his Cabinet.

If there is other evidence, like statutory declarations from people she told about the event, then there is a possibility that these will come out in public and then Morrison would have to act.

It could get very nasty for him.


----------



## basilio (1 March 2021)

Bill Shorten was investigated by the police.  Totally cleared.  Of course that didn't stop Sarah Henderson throwing it up as if it was something new.

There are two possibilities in this situation.

1) The woman who suicided last year spent her entire life in a delusionary fantasy that she had been anally raped  when she was sixteen by an ex.  private school boy in 1988  or

2) The woman who suicided last year left a long and detailed history and corroborating evidence of an outrageous rape which effectively destroyed her life. That includes her diary from the time. This was a girl who was at the very top of her classes. She was was remembered as exceptionally smart, creative and kind. For the rest of her  life she watched as the person who destroyed her glittering prospects become a leading political figure - in fact a very important Cabinet Minister.

It's worth realising that the supporters of the deceased come largely from Liberal supporters who knew her well.


----------



## basilio (1 March 2021)

Check our Dr Jennifer Wilsons Twitter account.


			https://twitter.com/noplaceforsheep
		


-----------------------------------------
_And in EVERY OTHER FIELD the proper process is for the alleged perp to stand aside while the investigation is undertaken!  Particularly when it's an investigation into a crime as serious as rape.  Standing aside does not presume guilt, it just allows for the possibility!_


----------



## sptrawler (2 March 2021)

There is a new claim that a Labor MP sexually assaulted a female, it sounds as though Canberra has become the new Sodom and Gomorrah.








						Labor MP accused of rape in new email
					

Victorian Liberal senator Sarah Henderson said a woman sent her the email on Sunday alleging the rape by a man who is now a Labor MP in federal Parliament.




					www.smh.com.au


----------



## SirRumpole (2 March 2021)

sptrawler said:


> There is a new claim that a Labor MP sexually assaulted a female, it sounds as though Canberra has become the new Sodom and Gomorrah.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Ah yes, but it's a high stress work environment and the boys need to let off steam don't they ?


----------



## IFocus (2 March 2021)

basilio said:


> Bill Shorten was investigated by the police.  Totally cleared.  Of course that didn't stop Sarah Henderson throwing it up as if it was something new.
> 
> There are two possibilities in this situation.
> 
> ...






If the allegation is against Porter...rumours of his reputation at UWA around women is well known.

Interesting presumption of innocence  applies in law courts not the public court unless it appears that you hold a position in the government.


----------



## basilio (2 March 2021)

R.I.P.  24th June 2020

*Katharine Thornton* matriculated from St Peter’s Girls School in Adelaide as dux of humanities. She studied history at the University of Adelaide, graduating with a first class honours degree. Her research interests have encompassed the roles of women in Australian history, the French language, the cinema arts, and the consequences of war. St Peter’s College appointed Katharine its School Historian with the objective of researching and writing this book, a task she took up with considerable vigour and acute intelligence. She served as School Historian from 2001 to 2009.


----------



## basilio (2 March 2021)

IFocus said:


> If the allegation is against Porter...rumours of his reputation at UWA around women is well known.
> 
> Interesting presumption of innocence  applies in law courts not the public court unless it appears that you hold a position in the government.




The ABC did a thorough investigation of Christian Porter as part of its 4 Corners program on Ministerial behaviour - in particular Mr Porter.
He didn't wash up too well.









						Investigation reveals history of sexism and inappropriate behaviour by A-G Christian Porter
					

Questions have been raised about Federal Attorney-General Christian Porter’s attitude towards women, after a Four Corners investigation revealed a history of sexism and inappropriate behaviour.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## SirRumpole (2 March 2021)

basilio said:


> R.I.P.  24th June 2020
> 
> *Katharine Thornton* matriculated from St Peter’s Girls School in Adelaide as dux of humanities. She studied history at the University of Adelaide, graduating with a first class honours degree. Her research interests have encompassed the roles of women in Australian history, the French language, the cinema arts, and the consequences of war. St Peter’s College appointed Katharine its School Historian with the objective of researching and writing this book, a task she took up with considerable vigour and acute intelligence. She served as School Historian from 2001 to 2009.




I presume she was the victim.

How did you know ?


----------



## basilio (2 March 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> I presume she was the victim.
> 
> How did you know ?



Story published online by Shane Dowling.

The NSW police have announced they won't proceed with any further investigation into the issue. Frankly I don't think that is going to go down well with people who have seen and heard Katherines story.

Of course officially all the public has is an allegation of a violent sexual assault by one of its Cabinet members. I think the process that was followed when the High Court Judge was accused of sexual harrassment may be the best process.









						Cabinet minister to make statement addressing historical rape allegation against him
					

The minister is expected to declare his innocence and is not planning on stepping down




					www.theguardian.com
				












						Investigation upholds sexual harassment complaints High Court Judge Dyson Heydon - Maurice Blackburn
					

A damning investigation commissioned by the High Court of Australia has upheld multiple allegations of sexual harassment against former High Court Judge Dyson Heydon.




					www.mauriceblackburn.com.au


----------



## moXJO (2 March 2021)

basilio said:


> Bill Shorten was investigated by the police.  Totally cleared.  Of course that didn't stop Sarah Henderson throwing it up as if it was something new.



"Totally cleared" and "lack of evidence" are two different things. 
A lot of rapists are "Totally cleared"


----------



## sptrawler (2 March 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Well, that's the problem with this case, the complainant is dead so it's unlikely the case will come to court.
> 
> The issue is whether Morrison is willing to have a possible rapist in his Cabinet.
> 
> ...



I haven't read up on the story, but wouldn't it stand to reason if she told various people about it, she would have told the police about it?
Obviously she had no issue with discussing it, if as you say they can get statutory declarations from people she told.


----------



## sptrawler (2 March 2021)

IFocus said:


> If the allegation is against Porter...rumours of his reputation at UWA around women is well known.
> 
> Interesting presumption of innocence  applies in law courts not the public court unless it appears that you hold a position in the government.



Wow Porter, that's interesting.


----------



## The Triangle (2 March 2021)

If you accuse me of rape, I'll come straight out and say it's BS and would be pretty angry about being accused.   If you have nothing to hide - then don't hide!!   What concerns me is that just about everyone knows who has been accused - and it was only a matter of time until he was forced to come out and make denials.    He should have come out from day one.    

Morrison and this generation of liberals has no credibility left.   They have achieved nothing since dumping turnbull and abbott.  We suffered 15 years of embarrassing prime ministers.  Maybe Mcgowan will jump to federal politics and drain the Canberra rape swamp in 2022.


----------



## SirRumpole (3 March 2021)

The Triangle said:


> Maybe Mcgowan will jump to federal politics and drain the Canberra rape swamp in 2022.




Surely you mean Clive Palmer don't you ?


----------



## Smurf1976 (3 March 2021)

The Triangle said:


> We suffered 15 years of embarrassing prime ministers.



Yep, both sides have given us "leaders" who seem unable to think more than a year or two into the future. "Cross that bridge when we come to it" might be the right approach in some circumstances but it's nowhere near adequate when it comes to running a country and both sides have been guilty.

That said, Turnbull did seem like an intelligent individual and I suspect the party in practice held him back.

A related problem is that the public service has seen a substantial purge of expertise over many years. There are exceptions as with anything but broadly speaking the PS culture and structure favours those with generic skills in management, administration and so on. Anyone who's a subject expert, in any field, is at best a square peg in a round hole and most don't stay too long unless their real reason for being there in the first place was wanting a career change. End result = the PS is no longer in a position to provide good advice in many areas.

Combine that lack of advice with politicians lacking in any real expertise themselves in many fields and it's no wonder we're in a bad situation.


----------



## SirRumpole (3 March 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> That said, Turnbull did seem like an intelligent individual and I suspect the party in practice held him back.




I think the party got rid of him for that exact reason.

Intellectual envy.


----------



## The Triangle (3 March 2021)

Why would intelligent people make for good prime ministers?  Intelligence is not a measure of getting things done.  Intelligent people are far too often preoccupied by the thought process of "why aren't they all as smart as me, why don't they all think like me, why can't they see what I see"

Always felt Turnbull was never interested in leading a diverse country of 25 million people. He only wanted to lead a country of 3-5 million liberal thinking university educated urban east coast elites. Unfortunately the PM also has to represent the poor meth addicts, the farmers, and the industry workers, the middle class and ultimately their party.


----------



## sptrawler (3 March 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> I think the party got rid of him for that exact reason.
> 
> Intellectual envy.



I find it hard to reconcile your adoration, when he was constantly bagged by all and sundry for changing the NBN model. 

When he was professing the advantages of the fibre to the node, everyone was saying he was a muppet, now he is a genius who was misunderstood.😂😂😂

How the rhetoric changes, when professing neutrality, becomes political advantage.


----------



## IFocus (3 March 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I find it hard to reconcile your adoration, when he was constantly bagged by all and sundry *for changing the NBN model*.
> 
> When he was professing the advantages of the fibre to the node, everyone was saying he was a muppet, now he is a genius who was misunderstood.😂😂😂
> 
> How the rhetoric changes, when professing neutrality, becomes political advantage.





SP Abbott wanted to totally abolish the NBN.

Turnbul to his credit he convinced Abbott he could do it far cheaper (fibre to the node) and basically rescued the NBN in a bastardised form.

Still its a cluster but at least it got the back bone and a fair bit of fibre in the ground.


----------



## Smurf1976 (3 March 2021)

The Triangle said:


> Why would intelligent people make for good prime ministers? Intelligence is not a measure of getting things done. Intelligent people are far too often preoccupied by the thought process of "why aren't they all as smart as me, why don't they all think like me, why can't they see what I see"



Someone somewhere in the process need to be intelligent otherwise ultimately we're stuffed.

Whether that's in the public service or within the parliament isn't so important - but if it's in the PS then we do have to accept that "faceless bureaucrats" end up wielding massive power in practice.

Historically that worked well enough, it certainly got a lot done rather quickly, but it does come with the risk of working too well and getting out of hand at times.

Same with anything really. A business owner can have a degree in a required field or they can employ someone who has a degree in that field. Ultimately though if you're doing medicine or engineering then someone had better be qualified otherwise you're in for a world of pain.


----------



## sptrawler (3 March 2021)

IFocus said:


> SP Abbott wanted to totally abolish the NBN.
> 
> Turnbul to his credit he convinced Abbott he could do it far cheaper (fibre to the node) and basically rescued the NBN in a bastardised form.
> 
> Still its a cluster but at least it got the back bone and a fair bit of fibre in the ground.



So it goes to prove, there are some good people on both sides of politics. 😂

In a few years ScoMo will probably be revered, for the way he has turned the economy and saved Australia from covid 19, very much as McGowan is currently viewed in W.A. 

As for the NBN, I am still of the opinion it should have been done by the telecommunication companies, not the taxpayer.
But hey who cares it is only the workers money after all.


----------



## IFocus (4 March 2021)

This pulls apart Porters claim of following the rule of law









						Christian Porter responsible for serial breaches of the law, now cries "rule of law" - Michael West Media
					

Christian Porter is responsible for serial breaches of the law. These, on top of the relentless persecution of Witness K and Bernard Collaery, should be enough to have him removed




					www.michaelwest.com.au


----------



## sptrawler (4 March 2021)

An interesting article Barney posted, I hope there is some substance to it and not just a load of rhetoric.


barney said:


> Reported in Mineral News yesterday.
> 
> 
> View attachment 120890


----------



## sptrawler (4 March 2021)

IFocus said:


> This pulls apart Porters claim of following the rule of law
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The hounds are baying, it will be interesting to see if he can ride this out, as well as Carmen Lawrence rode out the Easton affair.


----------



## IFocus (4 March 2021)

sptrawler said:


> The hounds are baying, it will be interesting to see if he can ride this out, as well as Carmen Lawrence rode out the Easton affair.





At some point this governments (Morrison) strategy of batting away scandal after scandal will come crashing down, although with a weak opposition  who refuse to smell blood and attack aggressively it may just wander on policy free except for attacking workers pay rates conditions and rights.

Morrison's marketing methodology carries on.


----------



## sptrawler (4 March 2021)

Here is a report on the NSW police department response, it does seem to confirm what Porter said that he had never heard of it.
I suppose it is possible the person in question had an axe to grind, it is that high a profile now the police will have to investigate it, or the media wont let it go. It wouldn't be hard to contact the other members of the debating team, something would surely have been said at the time of the incident, especially when they were all teenagers.








						NSW Police clarify handling of historical rape allegation denied by Christian Porter
					

New South Wales Police provide more details about how and when a woman approached them to make a historical rape allegation against Attorney-General Christian Porter, which he strenuously denies.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## IFocus (4 March 2021)

Man Responsible For Robodebt Horrified That People Are Asking Him To Prove His Innocence — The Betoota Advocate
					

WENDELL HUSSEY | Cadet | CONTACT The Attorney General and former Minister for Social Services Chrisitan Porter, has today asked the media and the nation to simply take him on his word. The man who rolled out the disastrous Robodebt scheme (that claimed nearly a billion dollars of debt it wasn’t...




					www.betootaadvocate.com


----------



## basilio (4 March 2021)

IFocus said:


> This pulls apart Porters claim of following the rule of law
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What a demolition job.  As pointed out  AG Christian Porter has  little respect for following the rule of law - expect if he can use it as a closk to cover his own misconduct.

Last year on Nov 10th 4 Corners ran a story on "Political behaviour in the Canberra bubble".  Christian Porter was absolutely scorched in terms of his historical and current behaviour.  The final straw was the current story he desperately attempted to prevent seeing the light of day.

*He was seen in a popular Canberra drinking spot kissing and canoodling with a young staffer. This was seen by many journalists and other politicians and staff.  He was have an affair with the women and prepared to be seen in public.* (This information was relayed by another source).

On this behaviour alone let alone the string of other observations Mr Porters suitability as AG should be questioned.









						Inside the Canberra Bubble
					

This Four Corners investigation questions the conduct of some of the most senior politicians in the nation.



					www.abc.net.au


----------



## basilio (4 March 2021)

IFocus said:


> View attachment 120898
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*INXXXXING DEED  !!*

What an apt comparison. The Robo debt debacle was the specific love child of then Social Services Minister Christian Porter. It was always a criminally disastrous project that from the beginning was recognised as being certain to produce  quite wrong outcomes and result in much trauma to people  unfairly accused of debts and forced to prove they didn't owe the Government thousands of dollars on quite arbitrary and flawed claims

*This is something to consider after yesterdays impressive, gutwretching display of innocence  and the appeal to the Rule of Law. *The last time Christian Porter presented such a tour de force was defending his Robo Debt love child after the Senate inquiry found it fundamentally flawed.  Let's remember that it was only later the Courts also lined up and ordered the Government to repay the unfair debt claims.

_The report described the debt recovery system as “so flawed that it was set up to fail” and said it had “a fundamental lack of procedural fairness” at every stage.

“This lack of procedural fairness disempowered people, causing emotional trauma, stress and shame,” the report found.

But Porter said on Thursday the system was “not a matter for apology”.

He described the inquiry’s report as “political” and noted there was a strong minority dissenting view in the report._









						Christian Porter defiant on Centrelink's 'robodebt' flaws: 'This is not a matter for apology'
					

Social services minister says debt recovery system criticised in Senate inquiry is tackling ‘a massive amount of overpayments’ to claimants




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## sptrawler (4 March 2021)

basilio said:


> What a demolition job.  As pointed out  AG Christian Porter has  little respect for following the rule of law - expect if he can use it as a closk to cover his own misconduct.
> 
> Last year on Nov 10th 4 Corners ran a story on "Political behaviour in the Canberra bubble".  Christian Porter was absolutely scorched in terms of his historical and current behaviour.  The final straw was the current story he desperately attempted to prevent seeing the light of day.
> 
> ...



You really should be a bit more careful bas, repeating slanderous material is seen no different to the originator, unless you can prove it so. You could find yourself on very shaky ground and possibly Joe as well, quote your source, when you post defamatory statements IMO.
Joe can correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## SirRumpole (4 March 2021)

I wonder if anyone has asked Porter to sign a Statutory Declaration as to his innocence in the rape matter.

He may still sign one if he thinks it can't be disproved, but you never know.


----------



## Smurf1976 (4 March 2021)

sptrawler said:


> You really should be a bit more careful bas, repeating slanderous material is seen no different to the originator, unless you can prove it so. You could find yourself on very shaky ground and possibly Joe as well, quote your source, when you post defamatory statements IMO.



It's an unfortunate reality that it's those who see themselves as entitled and in a position of power who will indeed take action over what others say.

Those with more liberal minds would shrug their shoulders, mutter something about free speech, and carry on. Those aren't the people at either of end of the political spectrum however, it's only those in the actual center that tend to think like that. The "Left" and the "Right" are both intolerant and prone to using defamation as a tactic when it suits.

So yes, be cautious.....


----------



## basilio (4 March 2021)

sptrawler said:


> You really should be a bit more careful bas, repeating slanderous material is seen no different to the originator, unless you can prove it so. You could find yourself on very shaky ground and possibly Joe as well, quote your source, when you post defamatory statements IMO.
> Joe can correct me if I'm wrong.




Not sure what you are alluding to SP.

The affair Christian Porter was having with the assistant in 2020 was exposed in the 4 Corners program last year. 
Christian threatened to sue 4 Corners.  Didn't follow it through. See the story for yourself
But his  (second) wife did leave him anyway.

As far as what happened with Katherine in 1988 ?

Who knows ? But lets be clear. Christian Porters reputation as an aggressive, drunken womaniser was well and truly outed by a host of political contempories  in Nov 2020.

His disastrous efforts at creating *and then defending* appalling * proven illegal  *resolutions to manufactured Centerlink debts are on the record. That's why I posted the link

I suggest his attempts to take the high moral and legal ground of the  1988 rape accusations fail miserably when examining  these  critical failings in  personal morality and legal prowess.


----------



## The Triangle (7 March 2021)

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03...-her-leave-following-rape-allegation/13224824 

How does scumo allow our defense minister to have another month off?  How could you be in the defense industry and have any respect for this woman?  Would very much like someone to explain to me what relevant military service she has actually done?   If her heart condition is so bad that she can't front the media and needs another month off then she's clearly not fit to be a minister - and what is the heart condition?  what specifically is the problem for here that she cant be in Canberra answering to the people who elected her?

The media should park a van outside her house in Perth and wait there every day with video cameras and microphones.   If she leaves her home, ask her questions!


----------



## SirRumpole (7 March 2021)

The Triangle said:


> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03...-her-leave-following-rape-allegation/13224824
> 
> How does scumo allow our defense minister to have another month off?  How could you be in the defense industry and have any respect for this woman?  Would very much like someone to explain to me what relevant military service she has actually done?   If her heart condition is so bad that she can't front the media and needs another month off then she's clearly not fit to be a minister - and what is the heart condition?  what specifically is the problem for here that she cant be in Canberra answering to the people who elected her?
> 
> The media should park a van outside her house in Perth and wait there every day with video cameras and microphones.   If she leaves her home, ask her questions!




I wouldn't be so nasty, but I think that defence is not a portfolio for someone faint of heart. (Pardon the expression).


----------



## bellenuit (7 March 2021)

The Triangle said:


> How does scumo allow our defense minister to have another month off?




I would suspect that she will be asked to quietly resign from her position due to health reasons. There is no way in a thousand years that Scomo could fire her from the position upon her requesting an extension to her health leave. Could you imagine the uproar if an employer were to do that to an employee. I know politics is not the same as business, but these things are handled behind the scenes in politics and some face saving excuse will be forthcoming.


----------



## SirRumpole (13 March 2021)

An excellent example of the corrupting influence of money on political parties and why poitical donations need to be reigned in.









						Liberal Party donor Haha Liu 'engaged in acts of foreign interference': ASIO
					

As Huifeng "Haha" Liu fights his deportation order, court documents reveal ASIO found the Melbourne-based businessman "deliberately misrepresented" his ties to Chinese government officials.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## basilio (15 March 2021)

Something for Angus Taylor and probably Christian Porter to think about.









						Movement that got rid of Tony Abbott is gunning for Angus Taylor
					

Two groups are taking advice from Zali Steggall’s backers on how to unseat the scandal-prone MP.




					www.smh.com.au


----------



## basilio (18 March 2021)

The Government might have thought that Christian Porters "Defamation" action against the ABC could cool their heels.

Nope.  Next Mondays 4 Corners goes right back to the current disgraceful behaviour around the alleged rape of Brittany Higgins by an up and coming Liberal staffer a couple of weeks before the last general election.

So why has this event taken TWO YEARS to surface and why did it take Brittanty Higgins decision to make formal charges for the Government to be officially informed?

_Four Corners has announced its episode for Monday. Here is the release:
On Monday *Four Corners* investigates how and why Brittany Higgins’ story was kept quiet for almost two years.
“It gives me the sense that there is a machine that takes care of these things.” – former senior public servant

The program examines the key questions of who knew what, and when, and whether there’s been a coverup.
*“I’m really one of the only people that knows what happened and nobody has asked me anything.”* – public servant

New revelations call into question statements that have been put on the public record.
“The truth does have to come out.” – public servant

With multiple inquiries under way and the government under pressure, those who have worked in the corridors of power say it is time to overturn “politics as usual”.
“I think that people in that building are hyped up on power. There’s no checks and balances and they can get away with it. It’s a place built on secrets and lies essentially.” – former coalition staffer_


----------



## sptrawler (18 March 2021)

Hopefully this current issue can be finalised one way or another and the Government can get back to business.
Personally I doubt it, the last thing the media want to talk about now, is the V shaped recovery, the handling of the virus, or the increase in welfare.
Which I still cant get.lol


----------



## Smurf1976 (19 March 2021)

Just had to check the date to see it's not the 1st of April yet:





__





						No Cookies | Daily Telegraph
					

No Cookies




					www.dailytelegraph.com.au
				






> Scott Morrison has confirmed storage of Department of Defence secrets has been moved to a Chinese-owned company.




That sort of stuff shouldn't be in the hands of any private business and certainly not a foreign owned one.


----------



## The Triangle (22 March 2021)

‘Sex act on female MP’s desk’: Liberal staffer sacked over lewd video
					

A federal Liberal staffer has been sacked after appearing in two lewd videos filmed in Parliament House offices in Canberra.




					www.smh.com.au
				




Who on earth is stupid enough to video tape themselves doing this?  Scumo needs to man up to this.


----------



## sptrawler (22 March 2021)

The Triangle said:


> ‘Sex act on female MP’s desk’: Liberal staffer sacked over lewd video
> 
> 
> A federal Liberal staffer has been sacked after appearing in two lewd videos filmed in Parliament House offices in Canberra.
> ...



That is one weird person, obviously impressed with his exploits, the world is becoming a weird place.


----------



## basilio (22 March 2021)

sptrawler said:


> That is one weird person, obviously impressed with his exploits, the world is becoming a weird place.




I think this behaviour spells out the lack of respect and boundaries that some people have. In that context the abuse of other staffers seems par for the course.

The bigger question is how does this culture continue to flourish ?  If it is recognised as seriously wrong what are the consequences ? 

Trust 4 Corners to get its teeth into the issue.


----------



## sptrawler (22 March 2021)

basilio said:


> I think this behaviour spells out the lack of respect and boundaries that some people have. In that context the abuse of other staffers seems par for the course.
> 
> The bigger question is how does this culture continue to flourish ?  If it is recognised as seriously wrong what are the consequences ?
> 
> Trust 4 Corners to get its teeth into the issue.



I think it is a sign of the times, morals, principals and respectable behaviour is all going down the toilet, with the advent of social media, uncensored internet pr0n and a drop in personal and social responsibility.
How many times these days do we read stories of revenge pr0n, bullying on social media causing mental health issues, this culture flourishes because it has become a form of grotesque entertainment for many.
What are the consequences for appalling behaviour? well as happened to the staff in question they were sacked for inappropriate behaviour, if they did something illegal the police will become involved.
But what was considered unhealthy behaviour 50 years ago, now is considered acceptable, who knows what it will be like in 50 years time?
Just travel on a train or bus and watch the way people treat public transport, that taxpayers are providing.


----------



## basilio (22 March 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I think it is a sign of the times, morals, principals and respectable behaviour is all going down the toilet, with the advent of social media, uncensored internet pr0n and a drop in personal and social responsibility.
> How many times these days do we read stories of revenge pr0n, bullying on social media causing mental health issues, this culture flourishes because it has become a form of grotesque entertainment for many.
> What are the consequences for appalling behaviour? well as happened to the staff in question they were sacked for inappropriate behaviour, if they did something illegal the police will become involved.
> But what was considered unhealthy behaviour 50 years ago, now is considered acceptable, who knows what it will be like in 50 years time?
> Just travel on a train or bus and watch the way people treat public transport, that taxpayers are providing.




I can see and agree with much of what you say SP. Not quite sure however that the past was such a gilded age.  It is easy to remember what we want to see as good and forgot/overlook some really appalling behaviour.
For example women have always been harassed and abused  at work, in the streets in their homes.
Racism ? Overt, casual endemic ?  Let's not forget how football crowds and clubs  routinely behaved  as a matter of course until barely 10 years ago.

I think what has happened however has been the rise of the internet and social media that has enabled and I suggest emboldened some really nasty xhit. In my view we have seen a  rapid corruption of peoples ideas to accepting as "practically normal" abuse and behaviour that stinks.

*Smurf made a point of highlighting the power of the psychopath. * Whether in business, politics , the Arts or just public life , aggressive, consciousless behaviour is becoming more and more successful and harder and harder to stop. The capacity to simply tell bigger and bigger lies , get them believed and get away with it is, in my mind, truly frightening.  These days it takes many forms. Simply denying that one has done something wrong regardless of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.  Creating ones own rules of behaviour and disregarding  protocols that protect the interests  of other people or the broader community values.

*Politicians are  very largely arch aggressors. *No one reaches the top being a wimp. There are plenty of sociopaths who want to be top dog.

On the way to being top dog there is plenty of seemingly inevitable road kill. Other candidates in your party. Competing politicians. There are courses of actions deemed "necessary" which in a just world wouldn't happen but in the world of "real politik" have to be done.

The obvious ones are covering up  the road kill. Killing the inquiries that will politically embarrass or possibly destroy a government. Ensuring by whatever means necessary that victims or witnesses understand what is important. (And it certainly isn't them) Digging up/creating dirt on opponents  and trying to destroy their credibility.

There are no virgins or innocents amongst aware men and women.  The fact is women have known and known from personal, shared experience how absolutely xucked our legal/political/social systems are. Everybody *knows *that whatever xshit a powerful guy does to a woman making him accountable in our system is pushing merde way up the valley and over the mountains.

In the past few months there has been a confluence of  political behaviours that finally enraged 100,000 women to march on Canberra and say "This is xucking unacceptable". Covering up rapes and abuse, behaving like a big swinging xick amongst staff and colleagues and denial, denial and more denial.  Women wern't just marching becasue of what happened in canberra. Every single one would have a personal similar experience either directly or through friends, family or colleagues.

Basta !! I'm off.



PS. And this is not simply a problem for the Liberals.  There is plenty of xhit behaviour across all political parties.


----------



## basilio (22 March 2021)

This is managing a mountain of merde.









						Coalition adviser sacked over allegations staffers performed solo sex acts on desks of female MPs
					

Scott Morrison says the reports are ‘disgusting and sickening’ and the behaviour is ‘totally unacceptable’




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## SirRumpole (22 March 2021)

basilio said:


> This is managing a mountain of merde.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What sort of background do parties do on their staff ? The Ministers must know what their staffers are like. 

Whoever employed that person should stand down as well.


----------



## sptrawler (22 March 2021)

basilio said:


> I can see and agree with much of what you say SP. Not quite sure however that the past was such a gilded age.  It is easy to remember what we want to see as good and forgot/overlook some really appalling behaviour.
> For example women have always been harassed and abused  at work, in the streets in their homes.



Yes they have, but they also used to have doors held open for them, where generally treated with respect, men stood up to allow them a seat and ensured they never used foul language in front of them.
So yes some were treated very badly, from memory as a young bloke most were treated with respect, that isn't the norm these days.





basilio said:


> Racism ? Overt, casual endemic ?  Let's not forget how football crowds and clubs  routinely behaved  as a matter of course until barely 10 years ago.




Absolutely


basilio said:


> I think what has happened however has been the rise of the internet and social media that has enabled and I suggest emboldened some really nasty xhit. In my view we have seen a  rapid corruption of peoples ideas to accepting as "practically normal" abuse and behaviour that stinks.




Absolutely


basilio said:


> *Smurf made a point of highlighting the power of the psychopath. * Whether in business, politics , the Arts or just public life , aggressive, consciousless behaviour is becoming more and more successful and harder and harder to stop. The capacity to simply tell bigger and bigger lies , get them believed and get away with it is, in my mind, truly frightening.  These days it takes many forms. Simply denying that one has done something wrong regardless of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.  Creating ones own rules of behaviour and disregarding  protocols that protect the interests  of other people or the broader community values.
> 
> *Politicians are  very largely arch aggressors. *No one reaches the top being a wimp. There are plenty of sociopaths who want to be top dog.
> 
> ...



Absolutely.

Also let's not forget the desensitising the new video games are achieving and the marked increase in violent crimes against the elderly.


----------



## SirRumpole (23 March 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Also let's not forget the desensitising the new video games are achieving and the marked increase in violent crimes against the elderly.




Seems to me that we all rejoiced when censorship was abolished and we could all read/listen/watch what we wanted to on the grounds that we were all adults and could make up our own minds.

The chickens have come home to roost on that one and have exposed the realities of society's dark side.

We won't be going back to the old days, so we'll just have to cop the worst of what we are.


----------



## basilio (23 March 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Yes they have, but they also used to have doors held open for them, where generally treated with respect, men stood up to allow them a seat and ensured they never used foul language in front of them.
> So yes some were treated very badly, from memory as a young bloke most were treated with respect, that isn't the norm these days.




Agree. The cultural norms of respect for women were far stronger . And one could argue there was greater civility in our society.  (But at the same time religious bigotry was  very strong and the general attitudes to non whites and non straight people was pretty rank.)  

Rumpy notes the abolition of censorship as perhaps contributing to the decline in behaviour ?

Maybe.  The capacity of people to corrupt minds and behaviour inside social network groups  is well proven. Look at cult behaviour as an example.  The decision to take very strong steps against the possession of child pornography came about as it became clear this dangerous  behaviour was been spread and cultivated.


----------



## SirRumpole (23 March 2021)

basilio said:


> Agree. The cultural norms of respect for women were far stronger . And one could argue there was greater civility in our society.  (But at the same time religious bigotry was  very strong and the general attitudes to non whites and non straight people was pretty rank.)
> 
> Rumpy notes the abolition of censorship as perhaps contributing to the decline in behaviour ?
> 
> Maybe.  The capacity of people to corrupt minds and behaviour inside social network groups  is well proven. Look at cult behaviour as an example.  The decision to take very strong steps against the possession of child pornography came about as it became clear this dangerous  behaviour was been spread and cultivated.





basilio said:


> Agree. The cultural norms of respect for women were far stronger . And one could argue there was greater civility in our society.  (But at the same time religious bigotry was  very strong and the general attitudes to non whites and non straight people was pretty rank.)
> 
> Rumpy notes the abolition of censorship as perhaps contributing to the decline in behaviour ?
> 
> Maybe.  The capacity of people to corrupt minds and behaviour inside social network groups  is well proven. Look at cult behaviour as an example.  The decision to take very strong steps against the possession of child pornography came about as it became clear this dangerous  behaviour was been spread and cultivated.




It's a general drop in standards and the dominance of capitalism over public good, eg the infusion of gambling into sport, bars open 24 hours, pornography etc.

We tax smoking on the grounds that it's dangerous to public health, what about the other bad influences ?


----------



## sptrawler (23 March 2021)

One just has to look at what is happening in schools, to realise things arent improving, fight clubs, both girls and boys.
Racial gangs of children roaming the streets of most major towns and cities, stealing cars and causing mahem.
Kids sexting each other and dick pics, yes @basilio the media are preaching to the converted, while feeding the blood lust of the masses, in the name of a good story.
Our moral fibre is being broken down, because decadence is now being portayed as normal behaviour.


----------



## PZ99 (23 March 2021)

sptrawler said:


> One just has to look at what is happening in schools, to realise things arent improving, fight clubs, both girls and boys.
> Racial gangs of children roaming the streets of most major towns and cities, stealing cars and causing mahem.
> Kids sexting each other and dick pics, yes @basilio the media are preaching to the converted, while feeding the blood lust of the masses, in the name of a good story.
> Our moral fibre is being broken down, because decadence is now being portayed as normal behaviour.



All of this whilst the rest of the population are told to be politically correct, overly serious about everything, can't take a joke anymore - let alone make one, and just generally made to sit down, shut up, grow a pair and pay your taxes...

It's all Aye over Tee. Kids spend the first decade and a half learning how to be a right prat and then the rest of their life learning how to dig out of their own cesspit and pretending things weren't this bad when they were kids...

Shouldn't it be the other way around ?


----------



## sptrawler (23 March 2021)

PZ99 said:


> All of this whilst the rest of the population are told to be politically correct, overly serious about everything, can't take a joke anymore - let alone make one, and just generally made to sit down, shut up, grow a pair and pay your taxes...
> 
> It's all Aye over Tee. Kids spend the first decade and a half learning how to be a right prat and then the rest of their life learning how to dig out of their own cesspit and pretending things weren't this bad when they were kids...
> 
> Shouldn't it be the other way around ?



It certainly is strange, just sit on a train and listen to how kids speak to each other girls and boys, yet nothing can be said to them, then all of a sudden apparently a magic switch is thrown and they are meant to show respect to each other.
Yet the media has free reign to say just about anything they want, pull down institutions, ridicule and denigrate anyone they see fit in the name of free and open press. Then in the next breath publicly admonish anyone who speaks freely against anything they write, or feel is righteous, free speech for the minority has become the rule as long as it aligns with the media.
The world has gone mad.


----------



## orr (23 March 2021)

At every step this bloviating (apologies Cpt'n 'picka box') caricature of a leader, a clumpen sod of nasty incurious inadequacy; Proves to the nations women, and so many more, who he really ever was. And best hopefully a short abberation.

And Ah'... no, 'Hand wringers' above; Since the writing by Josef Heller of 'Catch-22' circa 1960 see the character Arfy, a frat boy rapist and murderer let off at every in-justice, _as entitelment allowed it to be';_  sorry wringers things have slowly progressed. Too slowly.


----------



## basilio (24 March 2021)

Going to be interesting to see where this story goes.
Absolutely no surprise that Senator Abetz would deny these comments about Brittany Higgins. If he didn't he could just as well blow his brains out on the floor of the Senate. Very ugly comments.

Sue Hickey , Tasmania Speaker is adament she has correctly quoted him and says she told a number of people immediately afterwards who can verify her version of events.

Clearly someone is telling porkies or protecting their political hide.









						Senator Eric Abetz denies claim he made highly offensive comments about Brittany Higgins
					

Tasmanian speaker Sue Hickey alleged in state parliament the veteran Liberal senator made comments ‘slut shaming’ the former Liberal staffer




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## sptrawler (24 March 2021)

basilio said:


> Going to be interesting to see where this story goes.
> Absolutely no surprise that Senator Abetz would deny these comments about Brittany Higgins. If he didn't he could just as well blow his brains out on the floor of the Senate. Very ugly comments.
> 
> Sue Hickey , Tasmania Speaker is adament she has correctly quoted him and says she told a number of people immediately afterwards who can verify her version of events.
> ...



Well everyone has low opinions of politicians, the antics that are happening currently, shows those opinions are well founded IMO.
A very sad state of affairs ATM and shows what a nasty, insipid cesspit Canberra is, the old saying you need a thick skin to be a politician rings true, I would say that is one of the nicer traits a politician needs to posses.
They are all showing an absolute lack of class, manners, breeding and respectability IMO and harks back to the old saying 'there is no honor among thieves' the current stories are just reinforcing how poor our political stocks are IMO.
Hopefully these issues bring about a mass cleanout, on all sides, because I doubt very much these are isolated cases.
Obviously there is way too much taken for granted, when you get a seat in Canberra, too much easy money, too much idle time and way too many charlatans who are there for all the wrong reasons. 
All of the incidences that are currently being aired, would result in instant dismissal in most industrial workplaces, so it needs to be treated seriously and get sorted out.


----------



## basilio (24 March 2021)

Seems one of the people Sue Hockey told about Senator Abetzs comments was the Tasmanian Liberal Premier.  He believes the situations deserves consideration.

Also  appears that Christian Porter will lose AG.  It does seems impossible for him to make legal decisions as AG regarding the ABC when he is suing them for defamation.









						Tasmanian Premier calls on PM to consider 'slut-shaming' accusation
					

MP Sue Hickey uses parliamentary privilege to accuse Liberal senator Eric Abetz of "slut-shaming" former Liberal staffer Brittany Higgins — with the senator "categorically denying the mischievous assertions".




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## SirRumpole (24 March 2021)

The statements attributed to Abetz are reasonable I reckon.

Ministerial staffers and Ministers themselves should not be going out in public getting paralitically drunk especially if they work in a sensitive area like Defence or even if they work in other areas .

The public has a right to expect a higher standard of behaviour from our employees and it's because this sort of thing goes on that Parliament is now a laughing stock.

All very well for the women to be lecturing men about bad behaviour, but it seems they are in it as well.


----------



## sptrawler (24 March 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> The statements attributed to Abetz are reasonable I reckon.
> 
> Ministerial staffers and Ministers themselves should not be going out in public getting paralitically drunk especially if they work in a sensitive area like Defence or even if they work in other areas .
> 
> ...



The whole place sounds like a den of iniquity to me, they all sound like they need a good shower and a dose of penicillin.
It sounds to me like any male or female MP socialising with any staff, both get sacked, this isn't going to end well.
Any MP that has an intimate relationship with any staff, leaves themselves open to extortion at a later date, it has to be termination to both participants without exception IMO.
If they wish to have romantic overtures, get engaged and get it on, otherwise sit on it or zip it IMO.
They are all there paid by the taxpayer to run the country, not have a sex camp expo and run the country as a job on the side.


----------



## sptrawler (24 March 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> The statements attributed to Abetz are reasonable I reckon.
> 
> Ministerial staffers and Ministers themselves should not be going out in public getting paralitically drunk especially if they work in a sensitive area like Defence or even if they work in other areas .
> 
> ...



The plot thickens.




__





						NoCookies | The Australian
					






					www.theaustralian.com.au


----------



## basilio (25 March 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> The statements attributed to Abetz are reasonable I reckon.
> 
> Ministerial staffers and Ministers themselves should not be going out in public getting paralitically drunk especially if they work in a sensitive area like Defence or even if they work in other areas .
> 
> ...




The overall story is that Parliamentarians and their staff work hard and play hard.  That is their excuse anyway.

In the situation with Brittany Higgins she was a new junior employee in Linda Reynolds  office. The gathering at the pub was a celebration. The alleged rapist bought her the drinks  and seemed as if he was encouraging her to get drunk.  He also appeared to be a respected long time staffer with the Minister.  She believed  he was a safe pair of hands.









						Brittany Higgins: who knew what, and when, about the alleged rape at Parliament House
					

There are inconsistencies in the government account and the ex-staffer who says she was attacked has accused the PM of ‘victim-blaming’




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## sptrawler (25 March 2021)

basilio said:


> The overall story is that Parliamentarians and their staff work hard and play hard.  That is their excuse anyway.
> 
> In the situation with Brittany Higgins she was a new junior employee in Linda Reynolds  office. The gathering at the pub was a celebration. The alleged rapist bought her the drinks  and seemed as if he was encouraging her to get drunk.  He also appeared to be a respected long time staffer with the Minister.  She believed  he was a safe pair of hands.
> 
> ...



Bas apparently she was 24 years old at the time of the incident, she wasn't a 18 or 19 year old who had just dropped in as a junior receptionist. 
At 24, as Rumpy says getting absolutely blotto isn't really without its risks, even for a bloke plenty get bashed and robbed, it doesn't make it right but not everyone in the World is nice.
This is a lot of the underlying problem IMO, all this public opinion that people should be safe to get drunk and not be accosted, is built on the premise that everyone is nice.
When in reality not everyone is, there will always be predators, bullies and nasty sadistic people, some come that way that is how they are wired, saying they shouldn't wont actually change anything.
Unfortunately telling people they shouldn't worry it wont happen to them just doesn't work, people have to get back to accepting some responsibility for their actions, or bad things unfortunately can happen. 
They shouldn't, but they do, that is people, they come in all types of packages.


----------



## sptrawler (25 March 2021)

sptrawler said:


> The plot thickens.



And thickens more, what a cesspit, as usual the truth has a way of coming out.








						Peta Credlin says she sacked staffer at centre of lewd video, alleges orgies in Parliament
					

Credlin also said she was collecting evidence for the review being carried out by Sex Discrimination Commissioner Kate Jenkins into Federal Parliament’s workplace culture.




					www.smh.com.au
				



From the article:
Sky News presenter and former federal parliamentary staffer Peta Credlin has revealed that she had sacked the Coalition staffer featured in a video masturbating on the desk of a federal MP at Parliament House.
Credlin, who served as chief of staff to former prime minister Tony Abbott, said she was collecting evidence for the review being carried out by Sex Discrimination Commissioner Kate Jenkins into Parliament’s workplace culture.

She said on Sky News that, years earlier, she had dismissed the staffer featured in the lewd video for disloyalty and leaking against his boss.
“That bloke I demanded to be sacked years earlier for disloyalty, for lying, for leaking against his boss,” she said.

“I sacked him and I said he would never be back while I worked in that building.”

The staffer was rehired when Malcolm Turnbull became prime minister, she said, only to be dismissed this week following the publication of the lewd videos.
“Much of the current mess on the ministerial blue carpet for the Coalition is a legacy from the Turnbull years.

“These are my first comments on incidents in the past. They will not be my last.”

Credlin said she would be “getting out every file note, every document, every bit of paper ... I’ll do my best to drive change” in relation to Ms Jenkins’ review.

In a separate case, Credlin said evidence was found showing that another staffer held gay orgies inside Parliament.

She claimed that the evidence showed the orgies included Labor staffers as well as the Coalition man, and “a number of others too”.

“When the MP cleaned out the former staffer’s desk, and the computer, that MP uncovered evidence that for many months, that staffer had regularly met with other men during the middle of the day – while the MP was in question time – for orgies in political offices,” she said.


----------



## basilio (25 March 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Bas apparently she was 24 years old at the time of the incident, she wasn't a 18 or 19 year old who had just dropped in as a junior receptionist.
> At 24, as Rumpy says getting absolutely blotto isn't really without its risks, even for a bloke plenty get bashed and robbed, it doesn't make it right but not everyone in the World is nice.
> This is a lot of the underlying problem IMO, all this public opinion that people should be safe to get drunk and not be accosted, is built on the premise that everyone is nice.
> When in reality not everyone is, there will always be predators, bullies and nasty sadistic people, some come that way that is how they are wired, saying they shouldn't wont actually change anything.
> ...




I'm going to agree and disagree with your views here. 

Certainly  in the "real world" going out and getting blotto is dangerous - particularly if your a young, alone girl. That's why women will almost always have friend if going out on the town to protect each other, their drinks and keep the wolves at bay. Because frankly there are plenty of wolves hunting at pubs and discos. And I have to say seeing rows of totally wasted young women walking the streets is not a great look.

I think this was a different scenario. It was a work related party at a venue that everyone felt pretty safe to let their hair down because it was the play home of Parliamentary staffers and MPs. She drank too much with the liberal help of free drinks from the alleged assailant who was a  senior work colleague.  She accepted his offer to give her a lift home because she was too drunk and she trusted him.

Unfortunately in almost all cases when a "nice guy" in such a situation turns out to be a wolf the woman will find it very hard to prove assault. You were drunk. You knew him. You agreed . Whatever.

This case has turned out differently because -

1) The incident happened in Parliament House with security personal aware of what had happened and plenty of evidence.
2) Brittany Higgins finally decided to speak out publicly and press charges after Grace Tames powerful speech at the National Press Club. That was the catalyst.
3) The resulting uproar across hundreds of thousands of woman reflects their experience of very similar events. The facts are most sexual assaults happen with partners, people we know, ex's . It is that history that also makes it very difficult to go to the police and to be believed. So it gets dropped into the merde basket and people get over it - or don't  and guys get away with it .









						Grace Tame has been inundated with messages from survivors of sexual abuse — many of them men
					

She might wake to an inbox filled with hundreds of emails every day, but Grace Tame has one constant as she adjusts to life as a champion of survivors of sexual assault, male and female.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## sptrawler (25 March 2021)

basilio said:


> I'm going to agree and disagree with your views here.
> 
> Certainly  in the "real world" going out and getting blotto is dangerous - particularly if your a young, alone girl. That's why women will almost always have friend if going out on the town to protect each other, their drinks and keep the wolves at bay. Because frankly there are plenty of wolves hunting at pubs and discos. And I have to say seeing rows of totally wasted young women walking the streets is not a great look.
> 
> ...



From information coming out the alleged assailant i.e the 'nice guy' had form, so I would be surprised if the lady hadn't been given a 'heads up' about the wolf in sheep's clothing. 
Not in anyway saying he is not fully responsible, he is, if it was my daughter I wouldn't be happy.
But like I said I have been around the traps and there are a lot of not nice people.


----------



## basilio (25 March 2021)

sptrawler said:


> From information coming out the alleged assailant i.e the 'nice guy' had form, so I would be surprised if the lady hadn't been given a 'heads up' about the wolf in sheep's clothing.



She had only been in the office a few weeks. The form this guy had came out after the incident became public. Would there have been internal "gossip" ?  Not sure. He was an up and coming young politico with his sights set on moving up the rungs.  How would one tell stories about such a person without risking your job ?

It's true that in workplaces word gets around about bosses with wandering hands. This went to a completly different level didn't it ?


----------



## sptrawler (25 March 2021)

basilio said:


> She had only been in the office a few weeks. The form this guy had came out after the incident became public. Would there have been internal "gossip" ?  Not sure. He was an up and coming young politico with his sights set on moving up the rungs.  How would one tell stories about such a person without risking your job ?
> 
> It's true that in workplaces word gets around about bosses with wandering hands. This went to a completly different level didn't it ?



He sounds like a real piece of work.


----------



## SirRumpole (25 March 2021)

basilio said:


> She had only been in the office a few weeks. The form this guy had came out after the incident became public. Would there have been internal "gossip" ?  Not sure. He was an up and coming young politico with his sights set on moving up the rungs.  How would one tell stories about such a person without risking your job ?
> 
> It's true that in workplaces word gets around about bosses with wandering hands. This went to a completly different level didn't it ?




I think the best idea is to keep away from situations like that where the grog flows like water because you can be pretty sure that one way or another you could be in danger of losing control.

This is a societal issue and people are going to be called wowsers if they advocate restraint, but if people are going to be fit for high office or positions associated with them, restraint is a test of fitness for those positions.


----------



## IFocus (25 March 2021)

The senior staffer was responsible for looking out for Higgins not raping her that's the conversation required not that Higgins got blind drunk and should have known better.

I understand the realities of life but this is parliament house FFS surely if prosecuted and found guilty he goes for 4 to 5 years inside minimum.


----------



## moXJO (26 March 2021)

IFocus said:


> The senior staffer was responsible for looking out for Higgins not raping her that's the conversation required not that Higgins got blind drunk and should have known better.
> 
> I understand the realities of life but this is parliament house FFS surely if prosecuted and found guilty he goes for 4 to 5 years inside minimum.



I agree.

"Gay orgies" WTF are they bloody doing. Australia already has China on its back in a shitwar of who's worse. 
Kind of glad it all came out. There's been rumours for years.


----------



## basilio (26 March 2021)

IFocus said:


> The senior staffer was responsible for looking out for Higgins not raping her that's the conversation required not that Higgins got blind drunk and should have known better.
> 
> I understand the realities of life but this is parliament house FFS surely if prosecuted and found guilty he goes for 4 to 5 years inside minimum.



Less is more.


----------



## IFocus (27 March 2021)

If you are interested in how the power brokers work this worth a read yeah yeah I know its the Gardian...

"
The factional system relies on compliance and patronage, so straight away the idea of merit-based selection went out the window. This doesn’t just affect women – it affects everyone. Even Mike Baird needed a special deal to secure Liberal selection for the 2007 election in Manly. Favours given and favours repaid is how this works.

In other states, this model was nicknamed “the NSW disease”. Unfortunately, it spread. It has escalated."










						For years Liberal leaders have wheeled out female MPs like me to defend disgusting behaviour. Enough! | Catherine Cusack
					

Scott Morrison needs to be told why people are so furious. It’s up to us to make the case for change




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## SirRumpole (27 March 2021)

IFocus said:


> If you are interested in how the power brokers work this worth a read yeah yeah I know its the Gardian...
> 
> "
> The factional system relies on compliance and patronage, so straight away the idea of merit-based selection went out the window. This doesn’t just affect women – it affects everyone. Even Mike Baird needed a special deal to secure Liberal selection for the 2007 election in Manly. Favours given and favours repaid is how this works.
> ...




We could say the same about the Labor Party of course.

Union controlled, if you don't get the unions onside you are lucky to get a seat.


----------



## IFocus (27 March 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> We could say the same about the Labor Party of course.
> 
> Union controlled, if you don't get the unions onside you are lucky to get a seat.





The factions in Labor are far more clearly defined even running through the union movement left / right and then states all having a say. 

And of course power brokers exist but note females have long had a say in Labor unlike the Liberals.

Not saying Labor don't have issues but I was surprised how much tax payers funded MP staffers purely work for the purpose of running the Liberal party not for the people who elected their MP.


----------



## The Triangle (29 March 2021)

IFocus said:


> The factions in Labor are far more clearly defined even running through the union movement left / right and then states all having a say.
> 
> And of course power brokers exist but note females have long had a say in Labor unlike the Liberals.
> 
> Not saying Labor don't have issues but I was surprised how much tax payers funded MP staffers purely work for the purpose of running the Liberal party not for the people who elected their MP.



All parties equally use tax payer funded staff for party purposes.  Its not just liberals.     No different to corporate world PAs doing personal work for MDs and CEOs. 

Now this is a good idea.   These scumbags in canberra should start pissing in cups and blowing through straws. 









						Liberal MP calls for alcohol to be banned from Parliament House
					

Describing an "underlying lack of professionalism" in Parliament House and rumours of drug use, Liberal backbenchers Katie Allen and Sarah Henderson say they would support drug and alcohol testing of politicians.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## SirRumpole (29 March 2021)

The Triangle said:


> All parties equally use tax payer funded staff for party purposes.  Its not just liberals.     No different to corporate world PAs doing personal work for MDs and CEOs.
> 
> Now this is a good idea.   These scumbags in canberra should start pissing in cups and blowing through straws.
> 
> ...




Excellent idea.

Crane drivers or surgeons can't work while  drunk, and neither should politicians.

Make the place dry and don't admit anyone over 0.05%.


----------



## IFocus (29 March 2021)

The current conversations on behaviour, sexual abuse, no systems for management of problems and alcohol in the work place sadly reflect how far politicians and political parties  are behind  public expectations and standards.

Watching conservatives struggle to deal with this is not surprising how ever the best changes long term is when they are forced into making the changes themselves.

I think should Morrison continue to fail t lead in this area will be a net negative come the next election, interesting he is getting wedged on the issue from within his own party as pay back is getting reeled out. 

Where there is one cockroach there tends to be many wonder how many others will surface.


----------



## moXJO (29 March 2021)

IFocus said:


> The current conversations on behaviour, sexual abuse, no systems for management of problems and alcohol in the work place sadly reflect how far politicians and political parties  are behind  public expectations and standards.
> 
> Watching conservatives struggle to deal with this is not surprising how ever the best changes long term is when they are forced into making the changes themselves.
> 
> ...



They are most likely keeping their powder dry when it comes to divulging labors indiscretions. I'm sure the greens had recent history as well. It's not just one side, it's the whole lot of them.


----------



## sptrawler (31 March 2021)

Interesting move, we have discussed the use of hypersonic missiles on the forum previously.
It seems like we are going back to the future and are going to start and make missiles again. Hooray, maybe now dump the subs. 😂 








						Australia to build its own missiles with $1bn guided weapons facility
					

Australia is preparing for greater tensions in the region with a federal plan to build a new weapons facility with a global arms manufacturer.




					www.smh.com.au
				



From the article:
_Australia will gain the capacity to make its own guided missiles in a $1 billion federal plan to build a new weapons facility with a global arms manufacturer, preparing for greater tensions in the region.

The spending will upgrade Australia’s capabilities at a time of rapid advances in guided missiles, which are changing the dynamics of national defence with the development of hypersonic weapons that exceed the speed of sound.

Australia last made its own missiles in the 1960s when local researchers created the Ikara anti-submarine missile and launcher, which was built in Melbourne.

The need for a stronger local capacity was made clear after the government released a Force Structure Plan last July that emphasised the greater use of guided weapons, in part due to the increased tensions in regional sea lanes.

“As the COVID-19 pandemic has shown, having the ability for self-reliance be it vaccine development or the defence of Australia, is vital to meeting our own requirements in a changing global environment,” Mr Morrison said in a statement ahead of the announcemen_t.





__





						No Cookies | The Courier Mail
					

No Cookies




					www.qt.com.au


----------



## basilio (31 March 2021)

Nice touch from The Shovel re. actually being sacked for Ministerial indiscretions/ foul ups.

*New Game Show ‘Can You Get Fired From A Scott Morrison Government?’ Announced        * 








A new reality game show, announced this week, will pit a group of contestants against one another to see who can get fired from a Scott Morrison government first.

Dubbed ‘one of the toughest game shows to ever hit our screens’, competitors will be encouraged to go to increasing lengths to try and catch the attention of judge Scott Morrison, in the hope of getting asked to stand down.                                                                                  

In a reversal of other reality shows like _The Apprentice_, the first person fired will be declared the winner.

To make the contest even harder, competitors will be randomly sent on a month’s stress leave, taking them out of the competition for four crucial weeks.

A sneak peek of early episodes shows contestants rorting travel expenses, forging official documentation, covering up sexual assaults and harassing members of the general public in an attempt to get the sack. But none, so far, have managed to raise an eyebrow.

One contestant said it was the most difficult thing he’d ever done. “I really wanted to win this, so I went out there and committed an actual crime – I even posted about it on social media. But instead of being sacked I was sent on an all-expenses-paid empathy course. I’m starting to think it’s impossible to actually win this”.

Sources who worked on the show have confirmed there was no eventual winner in the 24-episode show.








						New Game Show ‘Can You Get Fired From A Scott Morrison Government?’ Announced
					

‘It's one of the toughest game shows to ever hit our screens’'




					www.theshovel.com.au


----------



## Humid (31 March 2021)




----------



## Humid (31 March 2021)

Covid: Australia falls 85% short of vaccine delivery goal
					

The slow rollout sparks concern as Brisbane faces a possible extension of a citywide lockdown.



					www.bbc.com
				



Anyone had the jab yet?


----------



## sptrawler (31 March 2021)

Humid said:


> Covid: Australia falls 85% short of vaccine delivery goal
> 
> 
> The slow rollout sparks concern as Brisbane faces a possible extension of a citywide lockdown.
> ...



My mother a couple of weeks back, down in Bunbury.


----------



## Humid (1 April 2021)

Morrison now claims he never mocked electric vehicle technology
					

Morrison denies ridiculing electric vehicles as VW repeats claims the federal government is doing nothing to support EVs.




					thedriven.io
				




Absolutely full of it


----------



## sptrawler (1 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Morrison now claims he never mocked electric vehicle technology
> 
> 
> Morrison denies ridiculing electric vehicles as VW repeats claims the federal government is doing nothing to support EVs.
> ...



Yep, just what we need, taxpayers subsidising VW, magic.
Well it sounds like a great plan for me, I have solar panels, so yes best I say nothing.lol
A taxpayer subsidised car/ home battery would be heaps better than losing franking credits, lol what a laugh now those who were bagging me are helping me.
Best say nothing and let it play out.lol
None are so blind as those who follow the media bread crumbs.
The BEV manufacturers want Taxpayers to fund the changeover, so what better way than take the pizz out of the government that wants the companies to pay for it?
People are really easily led IMO
ATM you have a car, that the fuel companies and car companies make money out of, your part depreciates.
So you have to change over to an electric car, that actually does exactly the  same thing.
Who loses mone?
The car manufacturer has to change over their whole model concept, the fuel supplier has to change over the fuel they are selling to you.
Yet you, who ends up with something that does exactly what you already have, has to subsidies the companies to sell it to you.ffs
Time I tapped out


----------



## sptrawler (1 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Morrison now claims he never mocked electric vehicle technology
> 
> 
> Morrison denies ridiculing electric vehicles as VW repeats claims the federal government is doing nothing to support EVs.
> ...



On a more personal level Humid, I find it a real laugh that you take exception to the government not subsidising automotive manufacturers, when your messiah Paul Keating initiated the removal of tariffs on our  manufacturing, which brought about the closure of most of our manufacturing.
I guess loyalty runs deeper than common sense?
Hopefully Albo doesn't have the deep rooted memory blocks of some supporters, otherwise they will have themselves shot off at the knees IMO.
Best he doesn't throw stones in the glass house, he seems to be well aware of it ATM and is treading a careful course. 
It would be great to have a political party, that was there for the betterment of middle Australia, the engine room the workers who pay their taxes before they get their money.
Not the party who are there to appease the vocal minority and the big money donors, Albo might well be the one who gets Labor back where it belongs, but it will be hard he will have a lot of knives out for him IMO.
McGowan has achieved it, Albo can IMO.
The biggest problem for Labor in the next election IMO, is overcooking it, like they did in the last election.


----------



## Humid (1 April 2021)

Geez mate the point was the recent history of Morrison bullshitting
Why not go back to Menzies selling pig iron 
How long is your bow?


----------



## Humid (1 April 2021)

Would you like to compare pink batts to jobkeeper
Ill get some numbers for you
Or we could start on Robodebt
How come you and you kind seem to not want to talk about the 76 times they were toldit wasnt enforceable and the stress and suicides it produces.
ASF is full of out of touch boomers in their echo chamber
Happy easter.....do them nut case pentecostal types you voted for celebrate this lol


----------



## Humid (1 April 2021)

Robodebt court documents show government was warned 76 times debts were not legally enforceable
					

Exclusive: statement of claim names Alan Tudge as among a handful of insiders aware program flawed




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Humid (1 April 2021)

The Big Grift: How the Top End of Town rorted Jobkeeper - Michael West
					

The most rampant era of welfare rorting in Australia's history draws to a close at the end of the month when the JobKeeper scheme ends.




					www.michaelwest.com.au


----------



## Humid (1 April 2021)

Should we start now with the vaccine roll out?
Only 3400000 short


----------



## sptrawler (1 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Would you like to compare pink batts to jobkeeper
> Ill get some numbers for you
> Or we could start on Robodebt
> How come you and you kind seem to not want to talk about the 76 times they were toldit wasnt enforceable and the stress and suicides it produces.
> ...



Well sunshine I actually go off what my kids say and they didn't grow up with a silver spoon in their mouths, actually it is dried on over paid muppets like you that have kept the Labor party in opposition most of the time.
You just can't see sense, keep putting up scaffold sunshine.


----------



## Humid (1 April 2021)

Lets go back to Keating then
At a guess you would be living off the wealth you have created for yourself since his policies kicked in?


----------



## Humid (1 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Well sunshine I actually go off what my kids say and they didn't grow up with a silver spoon in their mouths, actually it is dried on over paid muppets like you that have kept the Labor party in opposition most of the time.
> You just can't see sense, keep putting up scaffold sunshine.



Cant argue with facts can you
go to bed old man


----------



## sptrawler (1 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Cant argue with facts can you
> go to bed old man



Yep the only thing holding back Albo, is muppets like you sunshine.
The problem is you wont understand it, until you are way past making a difference, as Shorten found out.


----------



## Humid (1 April 2021)




----------



## Humid (1 April 2021)

When do we a trillion?


----------



## Humid (1 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Yep the only thing holding back Albo, is muppets like you sunshine.
> The problem is you wont understand it, until you are way past making a difference, as Shorten found out.



Thats the ticket when ya have nutti ......play the man


----------



## Humid (1 April 2021)

Funny you should mention muppets


----------



## IFocus (1 April 2021)

Did someone say "Keating"?

He has laid out the argument for increase in Superannuation cutting the legs off the likes of Morrison  who lets face it has no policy frame work just a load of shonks.

No one and I mean no one is arguing the case for Australian employees from the LNP side, except them helping everyone out by removing penalties from the lowest paid and attacking nurses and fireman unions.


----------



## Humid (1 April 2021)

Humid said:


> View attachment 122250



Doubled before covid


----------



## sptrawler (1 April 2021)

Yep it is all about Liberals are wrong Labor are right, Ra ra ra .
Ok fine your right


----------



## Humid (1 April 2021)

IFocus said:


> Did someone say "Keating"?
> 
> He has laid out the argument for increase in Superannuation cutting the legs off the likes of Morrison  who lets face it has no policy frame work just a load of shonks.
> 
> No one and I mean no one is arguing the case for Australian employees from the LNP side, except them helping everyone out by removing penalties from the lowest paid and attacking nurses and fireman unions.



The super increase is the only way we will get any more money from this lot


----------



## Humid (1 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Yep it is all about Liberals are wrong Labor are right, Ra ra ra .
> Ok fine your right



Great comeback


----------



## sptrawler (1 April 2021)

Humid said:


> The super increase is the only way we will get any more money from this lot



Well the pension increase under Rudd, cost you a two year extra wait to getting it, that didn't seem to bother you, so WTF your just another muppet.lol
Didn't want to be nasty but if your a dick, it has to be highlighted.👆


----------



## Humid (1 April 2021)

Well the pension increase under Rudd, cost you a two year extra wait to getting it, that didn't seem to bother you, so WTF your just another muppet.lol


sptrawler said:


> Didn't want to be nasty but if your a dick, it has to be highlighted.👆





sptrawler said:


> Well the pension increase under Rudd, cost you a two year extra wait to getting it, that didn't seem to bother you, so WTF your just another muppet.lol
> Didn't want to be nasty but if your a dick, it has to be highlighted.👆



Dont qualify for a pension the Mrs has too much money old boy


----------



## Humid (2 April 2021)

The new AG Cash has appointed Sophie Mirrabella as a fair work commissioner
Women of Australia should celebrate
Thats her in the middle


----------



## sptrawler (2 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Well the pension increase under Rudd, cost you a two year extra wait to getting it, that didn't seem to bother you, so WTF your just another muppet.lol
> 
> 
> Dont qualify for a pension the Mrs has too much money old boy



No sonny, still living off my savings after 9 years, still have to go to next July, to qualify for a pension.
Still have to put up with FW like you, that remind me that saving rather than spending, was a stupid choice.
But with the pandemic and the vitriol from young people like yourself, I think we are seeing the error of our ways. 
I certainly hope your parents do, if you have them.


----------



## Humid (2 April 2021)




----------



## Humid (2 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> No sonny, still living off my savings after 9 years, still have to go to next July, to qualify for a pension.
> Still have to put up with FW like you, that remind me that saving rather than spending, was a stupid choice.
> But with the pandemic and the vitriol from young people like yourself, I think we are seeing the error of our ways.
> I certainly hope your parents do, if you have them.



well get a job you fw


----------



## Humid (2 April 2021)

Bunnings are full of people like you that think they know everthing


----------



## sptrawler (2 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Bunnings are full of people like you that think they know everthing



Mate your probably a big legend in you dry and wet canteen, but to me your just another 8 and 6, that has never worked a 5weeks on one week off, yet bitch like a baby.
Your ffking sad, and why Australia is going down the toilet.
Bunnings is full of old guys that did it hard, the problem is the governments have told all you kids you have the knowledge, well I hope it works out well for you. 😂
You seem to have all the answers.
My kids said I was a hard arse, most of them will rely on what I leave, yet most of them have your outlook.
i hope you have your future secured, rather than thinking it is secured.


----------



## Humid (2 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Mate your probably a big legend in you dry and wet canteen, but to me your just another 8 and 6, that has never worked a 5weeks on one week off, yet bitch like a baby.
> You ffking sad, and why Australia is going down the toilet.



Hahaha
It was 7 and 1 when  i started in Tom price pops


----------



## Humid (2 April 2021)

Morrison government guilty of 'absolute failure' in electric vehicles policy
					

Independent senator Rex Patrick says the prime minister broke a 2019 promise to support the rollout of EVs




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## sptrawler (2 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Hahaha
> It was 7 and 1 when  i started in Tom price pops



Mate I was in Dampier in 1968, so don't start that $hit. There was no Karratha, there was no Wickham.
My old man was the union rep when Hamersley Iron owned it.


----------



## Humid (2 April 2021)

Karratha, Western Australia - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org
				




Must of been a different 1968
lol


----------



## Humid (2 April 2021)

Here she is
What a shallow talentless pool









						Shadow A-G takes aim at Michaelia Cash’s ‘appalling’ record
					

Michaelia Cash’s takeover of the federal Attorney-General portfolio has been met with renewed calls for law reforms in areas of domestic violence and IR, but it has also been used to highlight some of her “alarming” recent history in government.




					www.lawyersweekly.com.au


----------



## sptrawler (2 April 2021)

Where you lost credibility Humid was when you said you earned $250k, and it was reasonable that low income earners lost their $6k of franking credits, while twiggy can keep $300million of his.
Hard to swallow for the low income earners.
Which you will be be one day.
Your full of it mate.
And the very reason Labor will lose the next election, is if they listen to muppets like you.
You are over paid out of touch dinoursours, my guess is is you have only recently been re employed.
Which is amazing Bro.


----------



## sptrawler (2 April 2021)

IFocus said:


> Did someone say "Keating"?
> 
> He has laid out the argument for increase in Superannuation cutting the legs off the likes of Morrison  who lets face it has no policy frame work just a load of shonks.
> 
> No one and I mean no one is arguing the case for Australian employees from the LNP side, except them helping everyone out by removing penalties from the lowest paid and attacking nurses and fireman unions.



My mate who is 65, I did my apprenticeship with him, he has worked all his life.
Right so now he has $290k in his super, in 1 year he will get a full pension  which he should he has paid tax his whole working life.
Now lets think about him if he was 55  he has to go to 67 and will probably have $350K in super and loses $50/wk in pension.
So would the extra in super be better than the extra in the pay packet?
What $hits me is when we agreed to not take a pay rise, instead we would take a super payment, the ar$holes said it was to improve our pension, now even Labor who introduced it say, it is to improve or replace our pension, they are all ar$holes IMO.
This tribal Labor / Liberal crap just keeps the plebs squirming around in the $hit pit of life IMO.


----------



## Humid (2 April 2021)

You lost credibility in 1968


----------



## sptrawler (2 April 2021)

Humid said:


> You lost credibility in 1968



That was before Brian Burke and the W.A Labor party fiasco with Bell Resources.lol
Which at least McGowan had the decency to repay the W.A taxpayers.
Shame you havent the same humilty.lol
You really are a piece of work.
Havent heard from you for a year or so, beeb at her majesties pleasure or over in NZ?


----------



## Humid (2 April 2021)

offshore raking it in$$$$$$


----------



## sptrawler (2 April 2021)

Humid said:


> You lost credibility in 1968



Also I doubt you were born then. Lol


----------



## sptrawler (2 April 2021)

Humid said:


> offshore raking it in$$$$$$



And telling the plebs how tough it is,  what a wanker.lol


----------



## IFocus (2 April 2021)

SP since 1996 your Liberal party has been in power for 19 years... Labor 6 get off the high horse.

The LNP own a lot of shonk issues along with spending 90% of Australia's debt.

Remember Labor ($40 bill bad debt) is it now 1 trill Liberals good debt?


----------



## moXJO (2 April 2021)

IFocus said:


> SP since 1996 your Liberal party has been in power for 19 years... Labor 6 get off the high horse.
> 
> The LNP own a lot of shonk issues along with spending 90% of Australia's debt.
> 
> Remember Labor ($40 bill bad debt) is it now 1 trill Liberals good debt?



You have to ask yourself: how the heck is Labor not getting in then?

It's the absolute shitshow they put on when they do get in there. Refresh the front bench with some young blood and wipe out the Gillard/Rudd era shonks. 

Honestly the put bloody shorten into an election they would otherwise have won. Maybe next time the Labor party can go straight to throwing bags of **** at the voters at the next election.


----------



## Humid (2 April 2021)

Humid said:


> View attachment 122250



Its the absolite **** show they put on wnen their in there
 Moronic statement


----------



## moXJO (3 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Its the absolite **** show they put on wnen their in there
> Moronic statement



And still no Labor.
Rudd was a bloody circus. Gillard was the definition of useless policy and politics


----------



## moXJO (3 April 2021)

Oh and you are discounting covid spending. And the fact Liberals went more socialist then any previous Labor government during the whole lockdown.


----------



## Humid (3 April 2021)

How do you lose $60 billion, and where does this leave Australia?
					

We need to understand the assumptions that produced those spectacularly flawed JobKeeper numbers, and where the reality differed, if we are to understand the scheme and its success or otherwise.



					grattan.edu.au
				




Hahaha
cant even count


----------



## moXJO (3 April 2021)

Humid said:


> How do you lose $60 billion, and where does this leave Australia?
> 
> 
> We need to understand the assumptions that produced those spectacularly flawed JobKeeper numbers, and where the reality differed, if we are to understand the scheme and its success or otherwise.
> ...



And somehow still beat Labor year in year out.


----------



## SirRumpole (3 April 2021)

Well the problem with this huge deficit is that the Coalition have no idea how to repay it.

They won't even consider increased company tax like Biden has, or a resource export tax because that would upset their corporate donors.

They will just kick the can down the road to future generations or rip even more out of services like health, education and the NDIS.


----------



## moXJO (3 April 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Well the problem with this huge deficit is that the Coalition have no idea how to repay it.
> 
> They won't even consider increased company tax like Biden has, or a resource export tax because that would upset their corporate donors.
> 
> They will just kick the can down the road to future generations or rip even more out of services like health, education and the NDIS.



Liberal government has been crap. Make no mistakes about it. I'm against a majority of what they have been doing. Put up a decent alternative and I'd vote for it.

But a good deal of Labor front bench need to retire.


----------



## Humid (3 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> And somehow still beat Labor year in year out.



Somehow?
No because people like you keep voting for them because murdoch,stokes and costello tell you how good economic managers they are and you believe it
suckers


----------



## moXJO (3 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Somehow?
> No because people like you keep voting for them because murdoch,stokes and costello tell you how good economic managers they are and you believe it
> suckers



Maybe guys like you ran their last election marketing strategy.

"Vote Labor Ya dumb peasant fcks".

Or the progressive:

"Vote Labor or you are sexist and racist".

Or the brilliant

"Hey Bill Shorten seems like a good idea"

I didn't vote libs due to the shift in attitude towards individuals rights among other things. Its been that way for a bit. 
Labor needs to show something, anything that would actually be at least Vote interesting.

All your complaints above wasn't the reason. Dumb strategy was the reason. Really dumb strategies.


----------



## Humid (3 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> Maybe guys like you ran their last election marketing strategy.
> 
> "Vote Labor Ya dumb peasant fcks".
> 
> ...



Close....really dumb voters 
Hows your vaccine roll out going


----------



## IFocus (3 April 2021)

Mo some thing I saw the other month sort of made sense voters chose capital over labour.

Heading down that rabbit hole heaven forbid arrives at a US styled dog eat dog society complete with under class.


----------



## Smurf1976 (4 April 2021)

IFocus said:


> Mo some thing I saw the other month sort of made sense voters chose capital over labour.



Single largest issue I've heard mentioned about the last election, by far, was the franking credits.

It wasn't so much about the actual $ impact but simply the reality that it had zero impact on an ordinary worker unless they became one of the many involuntary early retirees in society, in which case it would definitely hurt them, that went down like a lead balloon with many.

Kicking someone when they've already had a fall is a dog act to put it lightly and the idea that a "workers' party" would do so was anathema to many.

I didn't vote #1 for either major party at the last Federal election. I've a definite dislike of the Liberals' "born to rule" way of thinking, the problems with which seem to have become a bit more apparent to the general population in recent times, but there's no way I could vote Labor so long as they had policies like that.

Closing tax loopholes exploited by the rich sure, that's a good idea.

Kicking some ordinary Joe Average at the very point they're already struggling was seen as unacceptable by many. Class warfare at its worst.

What's needed on that one is a scalpel not a chainsaw. Cut out the rorts certainly but don't jack up taxes on someone at the other end of the spectrum in doing so.

If an election were held tomorrow then I'd have a leaning to Labor at this point but I'm unconvinced that they've really grasped what needs to change with the party.


----------



## Humid (4 April 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> Single largest issue I've heard mentioned about the last election, by far, was the franking credits.
> 
> It wasn't so much about the actual $ impact but simply the reality that it had zero impact on an ordinary worker unless they became one of the many involuntary early retirees in society, in which case it would definitely hurt them, that went down like a lead balloon with many.
> 
> ...



I rest my case your Honour
Perception brought to you by murdoch,stokes and costello


----------



## Humid (4 April 2021)

Retiree tax ring a bell?

Poking the bear ....


----------



## Humid (4 April 2021)

Class warfare yeah right they were quite happy to see REAL taxpayers lose penalty rates.
Take your blikkers off


----------



## moXJO (4 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Close....really dumb voters
> Hows your vaccine roll out going



You mean the one that Europe took the initial doses. But luckily we started making it here. Oh and along with the fact we were not affected by covid as badly as the rest of the world.

I'd say pretty good. But let's scratch for a talking point. 

"My" vaccine rollout? That's what a rusted on Labor voter would say. I could care less about part allegiances. That's possibly the dumbest way to vote.


----------



## sptrawler (4 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Somehow?
> No because people like you keep voting for them because murdoch,*stokes* and costello tell you how good economic managers they are and you believe it
> suckers











						McGowan dodges heat over gas exemption for Stokes-backed energy company
					

The Waitsia joint venture is the only project exempt from changes to the gas reservation policy, which will ban the export of onshore gas extracted in WA to overseas or the eastern states.




					www.watoday.com.au
				











						McGowan dodges more questions over billionaire's hotel quarantine exemption
					

Mark McGowan declined to reveal any details about what was discussed with a federal minister in relation to Kerry Stokes' application to be exempt from hotel quarantine.




					www.smh.com.au


----------



## Humid (4 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> You mean the one that Europe took the initial doses. But luckily we started making it here. Oh and along with the fact we were not affected by covid as badly as the rest of the world.
> 
> I'd say pretty good. But let's scratch for a talking point.
> 
> "My" vaccine rollout? That's what a rusted on Labor voter would say. I could care less about part allegiances. That's possibly the dumbest way to vote.



You cant see what a shambles the vaccine rollout is and im rusted on lol

I know you wanted to vote for Trump but were shocked when you found he wasnt on the ticket


----------



## Humid (4 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> McGowan dodges heat over gas exemption for Stokes-backed energy company
> 
> 
> The Waitsia joint venture is the only project exempt from changes to the gas reservation policy, which will ban the export of onshore gas extracted in WA to overseas or the eastern states.
> ...



Not sure of your point


----------



## Humid (4 April 2021)

Humid said:


> You cant see what a shambles the vaccine rollout is and im rusted on lol
> 
> I know you wanted to vote for Trump but were shocked when you found he wasnt on the ticket





moXJO said:


> You mean the one that Europe took the initial doses. But luckily we started making it here. Oh and along with the fact we were not affected by covid as badly as the rest of the world.
> 
> I'd say pretty good. But let's scratch for a talking point.
> 
> "My" vaccine rollout? That's what a rusted on Labor voter would say. I could care less about part allegiances. That's possibly the dumbest way to vote.











						Vaccine rollout 'severely behind schedule' as governments at war
					

It is April 1, and Australia's glacial COVID vaccine rollout is more than one million doses behind even the most conservative projections.



					thenewdaily.com.au
				




Not very good at math your government


----------



## moXJO (4 April 2021)

Humid said:


> You cant see what a shambles the vaccine rollout is and im rusted on lol
> 
> I know you wanted to vote for Trump but were shocked when you found he wasnt on the titicket



"Shambles"?

It was slow to start. Talk about an overreaction. We currently have low to zero infections.


----------



## Humid (4 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> "Shambles"?
> 
> It was slow to start. Talk about an overreaction. We currently have low to zero infections.



Why bother at all then?...

Your lot are real good on announcements but thats whwere it ends








						Instead of an oversupply, Australia is facing a mad scramble to access COVID-19 vaccines
					

There have been major delays, tit-for-tat between governments and a lack of information. But at least one expert says the bumps with the vaccine rollout should soon be smoothed out.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## Humid (4 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> "Shambles"?
> 
> It was slow to start. Talk about an overreaction. We currently have low to zero infections.



Pop down to your closest nursing home and tell them their overreating.....staff too


----------



## moXJO (4 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Vaccine rollout 'severely behind schedule' as governments at war
> 
> 
> It is April 1, and Australia's glacial COVID vaccine rollout is more than one million doses behind even the most conservative projections.
> ...



Probably our biggest vaccination effort ever.
Europe defaults on sending vaccine.
Massive floods.
Lockdown in certain states help delay delivery.

Humid: " Wah wah wah'


----------



## moXJO (4 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Pop down to your closest nursing home and tell them their overreating.....staff too



Not in  Labors Victoria, they kill em instead.


----------



## Humid (4 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> Probably our biggest vaccination effort ever.
> Europe defaults on sending vaccine.
> Massive floods.
> Lockdown in certain states help delay delivery.
> ...



Your favourite country the US just did our population in a week


----------



## sptrawler (4 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Not sure of your point











						Taxpayers fork out $770,000 above funding limit for Westrac training centre in Collie
					

The amount available under the fund's large grants program is capped at $2 million, meaning the Westrac centre received 38.5 per cent more than the cap.




					www.smh.com.au
				




Just great to see a Labor party that embraces big business, instead of the usual demonising, to appease the tribal rusted on dinosaurs and latte sipping ocean front elite's.
Hopefully Albo can follow suite and jettison the cancer that has killed labor.


----------



## Humid (4 April 2021)

Anyway being easter just a reminder of YOUR leader


----------



## moXJO (4 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Your favourite country the US just did our population in a week



Biden not doing well huh?


----------



## Humid (4 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> Biden not doing well huh?



who cares im just happy not turning on any media machine and seein that ******** trump


----------



## Humid (4 April 2021)

9News - Latest news and headlines from Australia and the world
					

Latest news and headlines from Australia and the world




					www.9news.com.au
				




The easter bunny ffs


----------



## moXJO (4 April 2021)

Humid said:


> View attachment 122364
> View attachment 122364
> 
> 
> ...



Waving his hands all 'kum ba yah' like. What a hero to the people.


----------



## moXJO (4 April 2021)

Humid said:


> who cares im just happy not turning on any media machine and seein that ******** trump



Funny cause everyone is dying to mention him to me.


----------



## Humid (4 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> Waving his hands all 'kum ba yah' like. What a hero to the people.



well i was like jesus on good friday i got hammered


----------



## Humid (4 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> Funny cause everyone is dying to mention him to me.



Probably because you rammed him down peoples throats with your crazy conspiracy theories


----------



## moXJO (4 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Probably because you rammed him down peoples throats with your crazy conspiracy theories



At no time did I mention to deep throat Trump. You've just been out to sea so long that it's become habitual.


----------



## SirRumpole (4 April 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> Single largest issue I've heard mentioned about the last election, by far, was the franking credits.
> 
> It wasn't so much about the actual $ impact but simply the reality that it had zero impact on an ordinary worker unless they became one of the many involuntary early retirees in society, in which case it would definitely hurt them, that went down like a lead balloon with many.
> 
> ...




To me, the Coalition still have no idea of how to create a modern economy.

Just dig stuff out of the ground and sell it o/s for peanut return to the taxpayer and she'll be right mate.

That Christopher Pyne actually boasted about defunding universities by $26 billion was disgusting imo.

They have cut research funding and allowed us to become one of the most dependent economies in the world on foreign manufactured goods.

In contrast, Richard Marles's speech at the Press Club set out what we should be doing to drag us out of the 20th century. Well worth a watch if you missed it.

The Coalition are dinosaurs, have Labor just got spears or rockets ?

We will see.


----------



## Smurf1976 (4 April 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> That Christopher Pyne actually boasted about defunding universities by $26 billion was disgusting imo.



I do think there's a need for serious change in universities, they've lost their focus in recent times, but simply cutting funding isn't going to bring that change indeed it may well make the situation worse.

The concept of universities needs to go back to education, teaching students _how_ to think etc plus research. They weren't supposed to be lecturing anyone on _what_ to think or making a huge profit.


----------



## sptrawler (4 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Class warfare yeah right they were quite happy to see REAL taxpayers lose penalty rates.
> Take your blikkers off



Thats funny coming from the head cheerleader, of the party who increased the pension age.


----------



## Smurf1976 (4 April 2021)

Humid said:


> I rest my case your Honour
> Perception brought to you by murdoch,stokes and costello



No - the actual law as enforced by the ATO.

I do my own taxes, always have, and simply re-ran the calculations for a hypothetical scenario of unemployed versus employed.

Suffice to say that with a well paid job there was no impact. Without a job it was a tax hike, effectively removing the Tax Free Threshold.

No chance I'd support something so nasty no matter which party proposed it.

If there's one thing Labor really needs to do, it's distance themselves from white collar elites who simply don't comprehend life as lived by the rest. As everyone who's ever been a blue collar employee knows, the most dangerous thing you're likely to encounter at work isn't ladders, chemicals or electricity but rather, it's a man wearing a suit.

There's far too many sitting in offices who just don't grasp that retirement is for many something that happens at an unplanned date well before superannuation or the pension becomes available and is brought about by one of those men dressed in a suit. The victims of that, the very core of traditional Labor voters, are the ones who were going to lose under that policy and that's the problem with it.

It's the kind of thinking that sounds perfectly reasonable to a lawyer or academic who faces no such threat to their employment but it's a definite problem to a brickie or plant operator for whom investing outside super is their only real Plan B in a lot of cases.

Personally well I spend my time sitting at a desk these days but definitely no suit.


----------



## Humid (4 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Thats funny coming from the head cheerleader, of the party who increased the pension age.



Coming from someone retired prior to reaching said age is funnier
Geez im one ugly cheerleader your fantancies are troubling but hey each to their own
But i do have a price and im cheap


----------



## Humid (4 April 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> No - the actual law as enforced by the ATO.
> 
> I do my own taxes, always have, and simply re-ran the calculations for a hypothetical scenario of unemployed versus employed.
> 
> ...



It was introduced by Costello in 2000 from memory
anyways my point was the pro lib media beat up on franking credits as a retirement tax but didnt see the silver hair/ blue rinse brigade up in alms about the abolitionof penalties which had been around a bit longer than imputation credits in cash
The hypocracy of these neo lib voters is huge


----------



## SirRumpole (4 April 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> I do think there's a need for serious change in universities, they've lost their focus in recent times, but simply cutting funding isn't going to bring that change indeed it may well make the situation worse.
> 
> The concept of universities needs to go back to education, teaching students _how_ to think etc plus research. They weren't supposed to be lecturing anyone on _what_ to think or making a huge profit.




I would suggest that universities have lost focus *because* of under-funding.

They have to spend more time trying to stay in business and less time creating or improving courses or doing research, so they are afraid to be innovative and take a risk because it might cost them money. They go with the lowest common denominator.

In addition, it would be cutting their own throats if they fail fee paying students for bad marks or throw them out for cheating so they accept lower standards.

All of which drags the system down even further.


----------



## sptrawler (4 April 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> I would suggest that universities have lost focus *because* of under-funding.
> 
> They have to spend more time trying to stay in business and less time creating or improving courses or doing research, so they are afraid to be innovative and take a risk because it might cost them money. They go with the lowest common denominator.
> 
> ...



The other issue is pushing 50% of students into doing a degree and in reality fabricating degrees to ensure there is one for everybody, whether they are useful degrees or not.


----------



## sptrawler (4 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Coming from someone retired prior to reaching said age is funnier
> Geez im one ugly cheerleader your fantancies are troubling but hey each to their own
> But i do have a price and im cheap



From what you've said you earn, the last thing I would call you is cheap. 😂

Yes I've still got a year to go before I reach pension age, my mate the brickie is 60 and well over putting up bricks, he has 7 years to go if he is lucky.
Rudd gave pensioners a $30 rise and a two year longer wait, you never know if Albo gets in pensioners might get a $50 rise and another 3 year extension.  🤪


----------



## Humid (4 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> From what you've said you earn, the last thing I would call you is cheap. 😂
> 
> Yes I've still got a year to go before I reach pension age, my mate the brickie is 60 and well over putting up bricks, he has 7 years to go if he is lucky.
> Rudd gave pensioners a $30 rise and a two year longer wait, you never know if Albo gets in pensioners might get a $50 rise and another 3 year extension.  🤪



Tell him to take the job your to proud to take at Bunnings
They love tradies real advice


----------



## sptrawler (4 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Tell him to take the job your to proud to take at Bunnings
> They love tradies real advice



I actually failed the medical, for Bunnings.
They dont send my emails of vacancies any more.


----------



## SirRumpole (4 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I actually failed the medical, for Bunnings.




IQ too high ?


----------



## Smurf1976 (4 April 2021)

Humid said:


> anyways my point was the pro lib media beat up on franking credits as a retirement tax but didnt see the silver hair/ blue rinse brigade up in alms about the abolitionof penalties



No argument from me there.

It's folly to stand by and watch others lose out. First because of morality, second for the purely practical reason that it's the oldest trick in the book used by elites against those under them. 

Divide and conquer.

It works extremely well yes. Take any group and find some way to split it and now it's far easier to get what you want. Split it as many times as you can ideally.

Look around and pretty much every group in society has been pitted against some other group in recent times. Rich versus poor, capital versus labour, men versus women, white collar versus blue and so on. Divide and conquer that's exactly what it is.


----------



## Smurf1976 (4 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> The other issue is pushing 50% of students into doing a degree and in reality fabricating degrees to ensure there is one for everybody, whether they are useful degrees or not.



A directly related problem is that having a degree, any degree, has come to be used as a defacto intelligence test.

That results in employers not hiring anyone without a degree even for jobs where there's absolutely zero benefit in having one. It has become a screening tool, a de facto IQ test of sorts. 

Obviously if someone can get through a degree well they're not a complete fool but that doesn't mean the rest of the population's in some way lacking ability. Failing to grasp this does suggest that those doing the hiring may not be too clever though.....


----------



## Humid (4 April 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> No argument from me there.
> 
> It's folly to stand by and watch others lose out. First because of morality, second for the purely practical reason that it's the oldest trick in the book used by elites against those under them.
> 
> ...



Trouble is the penalty rate crowd dont frequent stock market forums= boomer echo chambers


----------



## Humid (4 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I actually failed the medical, for Bunnings.
> They dont send my emails of vacancies any more.



Well dont try your choice of guv for NDIS


----------



## Humid (4 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> At no time did I mention to deep throat Trump. You've just been out to sea so long that it's become habitual.



Here you go matching outfits for a fan boy


----------



## Humid (4 April 2021)

And reference
	

		
			
		

		
	






	

		
			
		

		
	
 for scale,


----------



## rederob (5 April 2021)

Morrison's incompetence around covid matters is gold standard.
Australia's covid safe framework is 3rd world, and was last updated in June last year.  Its 3-Step graphic does not mention the infamous *app *which was supposed to be integral to re-opening our economy.
We still have no agreement on what constitutes a covid *hotspot*, or grounds for closing borders.  And we have no national QR code framework that would assist all businesses in tracking clientele in case an infected person needed to be contact traced.
Our vaccine program is an unmitigated disaster - too little too late: we missed our end-march target by well in excess of 3 million.  Not only that, we were told an abundance of caution would be applied, so that vaccine candidates with suspect safety records would not be used, as Brendan Murphy said:
_"But we've got to do it safe -  this is not a race - what is most important is the health and safety of Australians in the vaccination program and that's what we've principally focused on." _​Well, that was just a bald-faced lie!
Furthermore, as economists have been pointing out, it *IS *a race.
And that's the real issue on covid incompetence. While other countries were greenlighting *production *in advance of possible emergency use approval, Morrison had put most of his eggs in the basket containing the UQ vaccine. So when it was pulled in December, little to none of the AstraZeneca  vaccine had been produced despite a heads of agreement being in place for CSL to manufacture it locally way back on 7 September.
It's not rocket science working out that the sooner herd immunity is achieved, the sooner our economy is back to normal. 
Moreover, with herd immunity, and vaccine passports in place, international travel/tourism could resume.  
Why didn't Morrison do the risk reward calculation on funding early production of vaccines given the tens of billion dollars that a successful result would achieve?
Had CSL simultaneously ramped up both vaccines last year, then by now most Australian adults would have received their first dose. Instead, our rollout rate sees us as one of the worst performing industrialised nations.


----------



## basilio (6 April 2021)

Lets see how The Shovel viewed the ScoMo governments efforts .

*    Morrison Government Revealed As Elaborate April Fool’s Day Prank*






Australia’s Federal government is a joke, it has been revealed.

In what has been described as the longest set up ever for a joke, the Government today admitted that it was just an elaborate prank.                                                                                                            
“I can’t believe you guys fell for it actually,” Josh Frydenberg said on behalf of the government. “I mean really – a government that covers up a rape, backgrounds against the victim’s partner, calls the victim a lying cow, sends the minister in question on paid leave and then claims to be listening to women. I mean it’s simply not plausible that a government would do that,” he said.

“And that’s just that start of it. We totally xucked up the vaccination roll-out during the biggest pandemic in 100 years, when that was literally the only task we had.

“And then just yesterday, when we were 3.5 million doses off target, we sent out Greg Hunt to say – and I quote – ‘The national vaccination program is accelerating exactly as intended in the manner that was intended at the time it was intended.’ I mean, that’s clearly not serious guys. That’s satire (_or farce ed_) . And yet some of you lot still thought we were a serious government. Forty eight percent of you even said you’d vote us back in again! Good lord!”









						Morrison Government Revealed As Elaborate April Fool’s Day Prank
					

“I can’t believe you guys fell for it"




					www.theshovel.com.au


----------



## Humid (6 April 2021)




----------



## basilio (6 April 2021)

Another 30 plus reasons why  Andrew Leming should be immediately sacked from the Liberal Party and the Government face the consequences.
Turns out he has been constructing and running a multitude of Facebook pages attacking his opponents and promoting himself - without identification of his political standing. That is a no no.









						Liberal MP Andrew Laming created dozens of Facebook pages to promote LNP and attack opponents
					

Exclusive: federal member for Bowman operates more than 30 pages and profiles under the guise of community groups, which he uses to promote political material




					www.theguardian.com
				








Liberal MP Andrew Laming, who is on leave from parliament to undertake empathy counselling, has operated dozens of Facebook community pages (including those pictured here) which promote political material and attack his Labor opponents. Composite: Mick Tsikas/AAP

The besieged Liberal National MP Andrew Laming operates more than 30 Facebook pages and profiles under the guise of community groups, including at least three masquerading as news pages, and another posing as an educational institute.

...According to the Australian Electoral Commission, political authorisation is required for “information that is a matter communicated, or intended to be communicated, for the dominant purpose of influencing the way electors vote in a federal election”.

“This includes, but is not limited to, a communication that expressly promotes or opposes a candidate, political party, member or senator.”

The disclosure laws, which were updated following the 2016 election, also explicitly include social media posts, requiring authorisation details either in the message or through the page’s biography details.


----------



## SirRumpole (6 April 2021)

basilio said:


> Another 30 plus reasons why  Andrew Leming should be immediately sacked from the Liberal Party and the Government face the consequences.
> Turns out he has been constructing and running a multitude of Facebook pages attacking his opponents and promoting himself - without identification of his political standing. That is a no no.
> 
> 
> ...




Yes , there is no point in him hanging around any more.

He should immediately resign from Parliament.


----------



## sptrawler (6 April 2021)

Another couple of terms of Labor coming up IMO.
Economy is picking up nicely, so it is time to get Labor in with some great ideas, that will be implemented badly and ultimately ends up with them thrown out yet again.
Wash, rinse, repeat. 😂
It really would be funny, if it wasn't so repetitious.

Libs are bogged, yet again, in their own dung. 😂


----------



## Humid (7 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Another couple of terms of Labor coming up IMO.
> Economy is picking up nicely, so it is time to get Labor in with some great ideas, that will be implemented badly and ultimately ends up with them thrown out yet again.
> Wash, rinse, repeat. 😂
> It really would be funny, if it wasn't so repetitious.
> ...



Why not trot out the bad financial managers line.....oh thats right your lot have taken that one over!
So the new angle will be poor implementation at the very least they have some ideas
What has this mob done?
Prior to covid the economy was stagnant


----------



## Humid (7 April 2021)

More b/s from b/s HQ ....how can you even listen to these idiots?










						EU denies blocking millions of vaccines
					

The European Union has denied claims made by the Morrison government that it blocked the export of 3.1 million Covid-19 vaccine doses to Australia. While defending missed vaccine targets on Tuesday, Morrison claimed that the major AstraZeneca shipment had been blocked, while Agriculture Minister...




					www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au


----------



## moXJO (7 April 2021)

Bwaahaaha

We have had one of the best covid responses, support of businesses/workers, cooperation between states and fed of any country. 

Europe literally had to nick our doses of vaccine that we had ordered well in advance. We are one of the few places that took initiative and made the vaccine.

If you want to diss on the government there are literally a hundred other things.
Covid ain't one of them though.


Humid said:


> More b/s from b/s HQ ....how can you even listen to these idiots?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



EU filled their orders first, so they didn't "approve" the batches coming to Australia until astra filled commitments to them first. Semantics, it's still a block.


----------



## moXJO (7 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Here you go matching outfits for a fan boy
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Do they come in men's sizes?


----------



## rederob (7 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> We have had one of the best covid responses, support of businesses/workers, cooperation between states and fed of any country.



We have had a very poor response, except for the largesse of Jobkeeper - a program that made some rich businesses richer.  
Morrison remains inept in getting State cooperation  - the vaccine fiasco being his latest misstep - so the flipflopping of border closures cost tens of thousands of Australians many thousands of dollars in travel cost losses, unexpected quarantine costs, and weeks unpaid off work.
We still have about 35000 citizens stuck overseas despite promises to bring them home by Christmas.  
And prior to that the blame game was rife with the federal government not wanting to accept responsibility for its age care facility failures, and the many hundreds of  deaths.


----------



## Humid (7 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> Bwaahaaha
> 
> We have had one of the best covid responses, support of businesses/workers, cooperation between states and fed of any country.
> 
> ...



And then blamed the states


----------



## moXJO (7 April 2021)

rederob said:


> We have had a very poor response, except for the largesse of Jobkeeper - a program that made some rich businesses richer.
> Morrison remains inept in getting State cooperation  - the vaccine fiasco being his latest misstep - so the flipflopping of border closures cost tens of thousands of Australians many thousands of dollars in travel cost losses, unexpected quarantine costs, and weeks unpaid off work.
> We still have about 35000 citizens stuck overseas despite promises to bring them home by Christmas.
> And prior to that the blame game was rife with the federal government not wanting to accept responsibility for its age care facility failures, and the many hundreds of  deaths.



Yeah compared to the rest of the world we are a real basketcase....

The truth is that the sexist attitudes in Canberra wasn't registering with the voter demographic they wanted so there was a change in tact. 

 Now it's pushing the lie that our covid response was flawed. Despite the fact we have had one of the best responses in the world. Hilarious stuff. Let's turn a positive into a negative and spin some lies US style.


----------



## moXJO (7 April 2021)

Humid said:


> And then blamed the states



Well that's what generals are there for. Sht rolls downhill.


----------



## Humid (7 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> Do they come in men's sizes?



At a guess yes.....unless you are fatter than scummo


----------



## moXJO (7 April 2021)

Humid said:


> At a guess yes.....unless you are fatter than scummo



Is Bjiggles really small or is scomo 7ft or something?


----------



## Humid (7 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> Is Bjiggles really small or is scomo 7ft or something?



Ask Daryl McGuire im sure he knows


----------



## rederob (7 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> Yeah compared to the rest of the world we are a real basketcase....
> 
> The truth is that the sexist attitudes in Canberra wasn't registering with the voter demographic they wanted so there was a change in tact.
> 
> Now it's pushing the lie that our covid response was flawed. Despite the fact we have had one of the best responses in the world. Hilarious stuff. Let's turn a positive into a negative and spin some lies US style.



The rest of the world are not isolated islands like Australia.
We rate worse than Hong Kong, Sri Lanka, Haiti, Madagascar, Mauritius, Singapore, Fiji, Taiwan and New Zealand.
We fare a fraction better than 3rd world Cuba!
The truth of the matter is it has been the States who have done the better work.
NSW and Victoria's covid death tolls were largely *a failure of the federal government* in administering aged care.  What they needed to have in place is spelled out in the Royal Commission into Aged Care Quality and Safety.
Please name something, anything, world class that Morrison put in place to fight covid.  For that matter, what shingle apart from good luck, can he claim?


----------



## basilio (7 April 2021)

rederob said:


> The rest of the world are not isolated islands like Australia.
> We rate worse than Hong Kong, Sri Lanka, Haiti, Madagascar, Mauritius, Singapore, Fiji, Taiwan and New Zealand.
> We fare a fraction better than 3rd world Cuba!
> The truth of the matter is it has been the States who have done the better work.
> ...




Probably the best thing he did was establish a National Cabinet  with the State Premiers to bring together a united front to the issue.
The Government also respected the medical advice that  said go quick and go hard on closures to minimise the spread and get on top quickly. That took some courage given the pressure from businesses and the behaviour of places like US and UK.

There were some big preventable mistakes (cruise ship fiasco and aged care)  but overall I thought the States and the Fed did a good job. One could argue that  some big businesses made out like bandits on the Job Keeper program.  It had to be done quickly. There could be some retrospective efforts to ensure there wasn't too much taken off the  top. And I think there should be a focus on catching and punishing  outright fraud - purely on principle.


----------



## moXJO (7 April 2021)

rederob said:


> Please name something, anything, world class that Morrison put in place to fight covid.  For that matter, what shingle apart from good luck, can he claim?



Umm the lack of covid cases.
Lack of business collapse.

We are 149th for deaths/mill. And lets face it, that was because it got out of control in one state. Good old 'belt and road' province.


----------



## Humid (7 April 2021)

Seems to be 2 different sets of rules with slomo


----------



## Humid (7 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> Umm the lack of covid cases.
> Lack of business collapse.
> 
> We are 149th for deaths/mill. And lets face it, that was because it got out of control in one state. Good old 'belt and road' province.



Harvey Norman for example


----------



## moXJO (7 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Harvey Norman for example



Go Harvey go Harvey. 

Wonder if he played that jingle on his wedding night?


----------



## rederob (7 April 2021)

basilio said:


> Probably the best thing he did was establish a National Cabinet  with the State Premiers to bring together a united front to the issue.



They failed on on covid  arrangements as no consistency was ever achieved.


basilio said:


> The Government also respected the medical advice that said go quick and go hard on closures to minimise the spread and get on top quickly.



Closures were carried out by States.  

Scorecard:

Pandemic preparedness = fail
Nationally agreed restriction levels = fail
Mask mandate = fail
Rapid antigen testing for domestic travel = fail
Covid app = fail
National QR code = what?
Repatriation of overseas citizen = fail
Aged care = fail
Vaccine production = fail
Safest vaccine = fail
Vaccine rollout = fail
Vaccine passport = fail
National information/communication campaign = fail
The above took me 3 minutes, so there are probably more factors where Morrison's scorecard would not measure up.
On the economic front Australia has been propped up by China trade, despite several product bans or tariff barriers.  Morrison on China is a dead loss.  We are lucky China is going gangbusters and cannot source some essential raw materials and foodstuffs elsewhere, in the quantity they need it.
While Jobkeeper propped up many businesses it failed miserably in terms of generating a productivity return.  In other words the money added nothing to infrastructure, nor did it add any social housing.  
The Homebuilder program has been a huge bonus to well off Australians despite covid having no impact on private dwelling approvals.


----------



## rederob (7 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> Umm the lack of covid cases.
> Lack of business collapse.



JobSeeker, JobKeeper, assistance to small and medium sized businesses, plus a few ancillary economic response measures will cost somewhere around $185 billion. Have a look around your council area or State to see what that generated or built. 


moXJO said:


> We are 149th for deaths/mill.



Wow.  You mean we have twice the death rate of Madagascar, three times the death rate of Togo, four times the death rate of Tajikistan, five times the death rate of Uganda, and...ten times the death rate of China.  Well done Scomo!


----------



## IFocus (7 April 2021)

The states have done all the heavy lifting as far as COVID goes taking on federal responsibilities such as quarantine and in some cases age care.
In amongst this they have been attacked by the federal government for closing borders while the feds bar you from even leaving Australia while stopping Australians from entering Australia while letting their mates out / back in, not a good look.

Note the federal government have continued  to play politics with COVID, blame shifting, Queensland election a good example and potato heads comments recently re Queensland.

Also note even Bali is ahead of Australia on vaccination rates, in Australia's case mired in blame shifting continuing changing stories re supply. Why they keep saying how great they are while being so far behind just baffles bit like electric cars are going to steal your utes. 

I think Hunt deservers some credit but continue to think Morrisons PMship has run its course.


----------



## IFocus (7 April 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> Single largest issue I've heard mentioned about the last election, by far, was the franking credits.




I think policy wise it was handled poorly failing to nuance the situation and failing to back the horse called self interest and as a result lost plenty of votes.

Franking credits was brought in to address double taxation in other words it was a tax policy.

Once it was changed so credits were handed out with no tax paid it became a benefit nothing to do with tax policy as its a net drain on treasury.

Now that its a benefit it should be argued what its purpose is.


----------



## Smurf1976 (7 April 2021)

IFocus said:


> Once it was changed so credits were handed out with no tax paid it became a benefit nothing to do with tax policy as its a net drain on treasury.



Where the problem arises is best explained by looking at the actual Income Tax rates at the bottom end:

Up to $18,200 = 0%

$18,201 - $45,000 = 19%

Now I don't hear any side of politics running around saying that either of those ought to be raised to a 30% tax rate or that anyone whose employer deducted too much tax, for whatever reason, should not receive a refund of the excess amount.

I think many are forgetting that a franking credit by its very nature arises due to tax having been paid. Even a refund of the whole lot only takes that to zero, it's not a welfare payment.

Employee situation: Employer deducts PAYG Income Tax from the employee's pay. At the end of the financial year, if too much was deducted as per the Income Tax scales, the ATO issues a refund.

Dividend situation: Company deducts 30% tax from the shareholder's dividends prior to payment. At the end of the financial year, if too much was deducted as per the Income Tax scales, the ATO issues a refund.

In both cases money was taken from the individual's income and handed to the ATO.

In both cases a refund will be issued if too much tax was paid and an additional payment will be required by the ATO if the amount paid was insufficient.

Both are calculated using the exact same Income Tax rates.

If we're going to get rid refunds of excess tax paid in the case of investors then it's only fair to do the same with workers and to require that all employers deduct tax at a minimum rate of 30%. I don't advocate that, but at least it would be consistent and not favouring one group over another.

Politically well the 50 year old manual worker who's been tossed on the scrapheap is the exact person Labor was supposedly looking after but has seemingly abandoned. Hence the Coalition keeps winning elections - there's an awful lot of people who are either in that situation themselves, know they could well end up in it, or have friends / family who are.


----------



## sptrawler (7 April 2021)

The State and Federal home building incentives are definitely helping stimulate first home buyers, but with the lack of dividends and low interest on term deposits, investors are also piling into property.








						First home buyers spend $10,000 more in a single month | Savings.com.au
					

The latest data shows a 9.3% monthly increase in first home buyer loans in December 2020, now at its highest level since June 2009.




					www.savings.com.au
				











						Property dreams over for young Aussies
					

The dream of owning a home could be even further out of reach for young Aussies as investors flood back into the market and property prices skyrocket to eye-watering levels.




					www.news.com.au


----------



## sptrawler (7 April 2021)

IFocus said:


> Once it was changed so credits were handed out with no tax paid it became a benefit nothing to do with tax policy as its a net drain on treasury.
> 
> Now that its a benefit it should be argued what its purpose is.



Any franking credit is a net drain on treasury, whether it is a refund to a SF retired person, or a reduction in tax payable by Twiggy Forrest.
They are both the same loss of tax paid by business to treasury.
If the low income earner loses the 30c tax return from the ATO, everyone else should lose the reduction in tax offset for franking credits.
Just do away with franking credits full stop. Easy
Why should super funds have kept them and self managed super funds lost them?
The whole thing was either a scam, or a massive brain fart, thankfully most people were smart enough to realise what a joke it was.
Anyway, I'm sure labor will get another shot in the big chair next election, unless they come out with ridiculous policies as they did last time.
It is their election to lose again, people are over the Libs, as Humid said they had done very little other than tread water, until the covid issue came along.
So it was time to flip them anyway IMO, if Shorten hadn't stuffed up so badly, they would already be in office.


----------



## Humid (7 April 2021)

Fair you 
	

		
			
		

		
	





	

		
			
		

		
	
 say


----------



## Smurf1976 (7 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Fair you
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If they wish to go down a “tax the rich” approach then that’s one thing.

What caused the upset is that someone at the bottom end of the scale was going to be collateral damage and there’s quite a few such people.

We’re taking about bricklayers and truck drivers here, not CEO’s and the like and we’re talking about money being invested that they’ve already paid tax on when they earned it.


----------



## sptrawler (7 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Fair you



Like I said, just stop franking credits, don't just pick and choose who should and shouldn't get them.
Same as negative gearing, just stop it, don't pick and choose who can have it.
This is what causes all the friction in Australia.
Why should someone who is under retirement age and is self funded on savings and shares, be less entitled to a tax offset, than someone who has shares and earns $3m a year?
Why should someone who owns their own house and can afford to build a new house, for the purpose of renting it, be able to negative gear it.
When a tradie working away, who doesn't own a house wants to buy a property to rent out to build a nets egg, can't negative gear it?
Just weird $hit.
Hopefully Albo doesn't get the same dickheads in his ear that Shorten did, if he keeps his head down, he is a shoe in.


----------



## SirRumpole (7 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Like I said, just stop franking credits, don't just pick and choose who should and shouldn't get them.
> Same as negative gearing, just stop it, don't pick and choose who can have it.
> This is what causes all the friction in Australia.
> Why should someone who is under retirement age and is self funded on savings and shares, be less entitled to a tax offset, than someone who has shares and earns $3m a year?
> ...




Just put a means test on franking credits.

People have to declare ALL their income including tax free super and if it's bigger than the median wage then reduce franking credits dollar for dollar over that amount.


----------



## sptrawler (7 April 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Just put a means test on franking credits.
> 
> People have to declare ALL their income including tax free super and if it's bigger than the median wage then reduce franking credits dollar for dollar over that amount.



Same with negative gearing make it upto a $ amount, simple, why try and pick winners and losers.
Reward endeavour, investment and risk taking but reduce rorts, anyone negative gearing multiple properties is taking the pi$$, same as anyone getting $m of franking credits.
People should be encouraged to invest in companies and real estate, but it shouldn't become a taxpayer funded gravy train for anyone, it should help those who are trying to become principal home owners and self funded pensioners.
I would rather see negative gearing applied to first home buyers up to a certain amount, to offset their interest payments  and franking credits as you say stopped after a certain amount, not as ar$e about as was suggested.
You want mums and dads to buy a house, build a nest egg and reduce the reliance on the pension later in life, not punish them for it.
It really has nothing to do with political parties, just what is fair and reasonable for hard working Australians, you have to give encouragement for effort otherwise people wont try.
The other thing that needs addressing is the tax paid by those on public service pensions.


----------



## macca (7 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Same with negative gearing make it upto a $ amount, simple, why try and pick winners and losers.
> Reward endeavour, investment and risk taking but reduce rorts, anyone negative gearing multiple properties is taking the pi$$, same as anyone getting $m of franking credits.
> People should be encouraged to invest in companies and real estate, but it shouldn't become a taxpayer funded gravy train for anyone, it should help those who are trying to become principal home owners and self funded pensioners.
> I would rather see negative gearing applied to first home buyers up to a certain amount, to offset their interest payments  and franking credits as you say stopped after a certain amount, not as ar$e about as was suggested.
> You want mums and dads to buy a house, build a nest egg and reduce the reliance on the pension later in life, not punish them for it.




If the RBA wants to put out the fire in RE prices, all they need do is demand that all investment loans have an unencumbered deposit of 10% minimum

In most cases it makes negative gearing "not worth the effort"


----------



## sptrawler (7 April 2021)

macca said:


> If the RBA wants to put out the fire in RE prices, all they need do is demand that all investment loans have an unencumbered deposit of 10% minimum
> 
> In most cases it makes negative gearing "not worth the effort"



If a real estate investment doesn't stack up without a tax offset, it really shouldn't be allowed, at the end of the day negative gearing was designed to assist an investment until it became positive geared.
If it is just there to support an investment until there is a capital gain, it is just aiding a ponzi scheme, which is nonsense.
All studies have shown that the best way to a comfortable retirement is to own your home, so let first home buyers claim their interest as a tax deduction, up to a certain value.
With investment property, if the business plan doesn't show a likely hood of ever becoming positive geared, over a certain period of time, don't allow it. Also cap the amount that can be negative geared.


----------



## Humid (7 April 2021)

Its been done to death...just leave it for new builds


----------



## Humid (7 April 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> If they wish to go down a “tax the rich” approach then that’s one thing.
> 
> What caused the upset is that someone at the bottom end of the scale was going to be collateral damage and there’s quite a few such people.
> 
> We’re taking about bricklayers and truck drivers here, not CEO’s and the like and we’re talking about money being invested that they’ve already paid tax on when they earned it.



If you want to believe the negative media at the time was aimed at bricklayers and truck drivers good onya.
They were used by the big end of town to keep the status quo just like mining taxes 

WAKE UP


----------



## Humid (7 April 2021)

Anyway enough of your typical Lib distractions lets get back to Scummo


----------



## Humid (7 April 2021)

And if you believe the franking credits welfare was introduced by Costello in 2000 for truckies and brickies you are seriously deluded


----------



## Humid (7 April 2021)




----------



## sptrawler (7 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Its been done to death...just leave it for new builds



Just get rid of negative gearing and franking credits IMO.
The self funded get the dividend and no franking credit, the income earners get the dividend added to their taxable income and no franking credit easy, all super funds lose the franking credit, everyone gets the same. 
The ATO makes a killing, all Australians gain, magic and fair.


----------



## Humid (7 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Just get rid of negative gearing and franking credits IMO.
> The self funded get the dividend and no franking credit, the income earners get the dividend added to their taxable income and no franking credit easy, all super funds lose the franking credit, everyone gets the same.
> The ATO makes a killing, all Australians gain, magic and fair.



I think on new builds under the median price is a win win
Gamble on the price increase 
As I type im reminded its all ponzi
You are right get rid of it


----------



## sptrawler (7 April 2021)

Humid said:


> I think on new builds under the median price is a win win
> Gamble on the price increase
> As I type im reminded its all ponzi
> You are right get rid of it



Unless an investment property purchase or new build makes sense financially on its own merits, people shouldnt be getting taxpayers money to subsidies it IMO.
Like I said earlier, if you are going to subsidise anything, subsidies PPR for young people to buy their first property, because that is what will give them a better retirement, owning their own home.
Just my opiniom.


----------



## Humid (7 April 2021)

One thing for sure is there is no reform with this current lot
We need massive changes
The place is cooked on self agendas
Neolibs is our down fall 
We have the fundementals of great society just need some leadership


----------



## Humid (7 April 2021)

And im not sure Labor are the answer but fmd this lot aint!


----------



## Humid (7 April 2021)

When you come through a ....maybe once in a life time pandemic when money doesnt seem to be a problem and then switch it off just shows you how much you have been conned when you have a sovereign currency


----------



## sptrawler (7 April 2021)

Humid said:


> One thing for sure is there is no reform with this current lot
> We need massive changes
> The place is cooked on self agendas
> Neolibs is our down fall
> We have the fundementals of great society just need some leadership



Way too many career politicians and public servants in the Canberra bubble, that have no idea of how real life works and they all have a self serving agenda which revolves around keeping their ar$es in their well paid jobs with perks and sod all to do with helping hard working Aussies IMO.


----------



## Humid (7 April 2021)

Caption this please


----------



## Humid (7 April 2021)

CSL will reach a million COVID vaccines a week soon: Murphy
					

The national vaccine rollout was always going to depend on how quickly Australia's local production of the AstraZeneca vaccine could ramp up.



					thenewdaily.com.au


----------



## Humid (7 April 2021)

Confidence
Murphy
lol


----------



## Smurf1976 (7 April 2021)

Humid said:


> If you want to believe the negative media at the time was aimed at bricklayers and truck drivers good onya.
> They were used by the big end of town to keep the status quo just like mining taxes
> 
> WAKE UP



I do my own calculations to check political claims thanks.

Long story short is that with a job it would cost me not one cent.

Be unemployed and then I was up for the tax hit.

That's the single most regressive policy I can recall seeing from any side of politics in a very long time.

It could apply to anyone but there's a "class" element in that it's blue collar and other non-profession workers who tend to end up on the scrapheap through no fault of their own. They're the ones who know they need investments outside super and may well be living on that for a decade or more. The smart ones have generally worked that out at a pretty young age.

Suffice to say if you go and talk to those workers well rather a lot of them understood the implications. It was a direct attack on their "Plan B" strategy of investing lest they end up like so many others and thrown on the scrapheap circa age 50.

Therein lies part of the problem. Those who've only ever worked in white collar professions are likely somewhat baffled to realise that workers are indeed "thrown on the scrap heap" and that retirement is very often something that happens suddenly without warning and that's it, it's over. Won't likely happen if you're an academic or a Director of something but for many others it's a very real prospect.

As I said - if you think it's wrong, there shouldn't be refunds, then why not take them off employees too?

Franking credit refunds are claimed to cost approximately $6 billion a year and as you point out, a large portion of that's being claimed by the wealthy thus meaning the cost for those on lower incomes is indeed fairly low.

Meanwhile the Tax Free Threshold costs somewhere around $70 billion* in lost revenue compared to a 30% minimum tax on all income.

_*I couldn't find an actual figure but apparently there's 13.5 million payers of Income Tax and I've assumed the majority would earn at least $18.2k a year._

Now I'd fully support stopping rorts of this system just as I support stopping any other tax rorts of which there's quite a few. Between the various rorts that would save many $ billions most definitely.

Imposing a 30% minimum tax rate on a minority of taxpayers however, just because of their income source, is a pretty nasty way of going about it and hits only two groups: (1) those rorting the system (2) those who find themselves out of work who become collateral damage in the pursuit of the former.

The whole thing's symptomatic of politicians out of touch with the community. To be blunt, there's far too many in parliament who followed a pathway that was basically school > university > profession. They've never had a full time manual labour job or indeed any job where "Age Pension age is 67" sounds like a lame attempt at comedy until you realise it's actually a real law and not a joke.


----------



## Smurf1976 (7 April 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Just put a means test on franking credits.
> 
> People have to declare ALL their income including tax free super and if it's bigger than the median wage then reduce franking credits dollar for dollar over that amount.



No argument there. 

It's the early retirees, usually involuntary, I and many others are worried about. Nobody's defending rorts and so on.


----------



## Humid (7 April 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> I do my own calculations to check political claims thanks.
> 
> Long story short is that with a job it would cost me not one cent.
> 
> ...



Regressive
i


----------



## Humid (7 April 2021)

Robodebt?


----------



## moXJO (8 April 2021)

The pathways to getting ahead in this country are already drying up. I'm not sure I'd be wanting to give the government anymore to spend on wasteful sht. Looking at either the Labor or liberal clowns I'm not exactly confident with either of their abilities to get value for money.


Hey humid how much of that $250k a year you keep? 
Is it in any tax minimising schemes?


----------



## IFocus (8 April 2021)

Penalty rates?


----------



## Humid (8 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> The pathways to getting ahead in this country are already drying up. I'm not sure I'd be wanting to give the government anymore to spend on wasteful sht. Looking at either the Labor or liberal clowns I'm not exactly confident with either of their abilities to get value for money.
> 
> 
> Hey humid how much of that $250k a year you keep?
> Is it in any tax minimising schemes?



I havnt earnt that much for a while I enjoy too much time off but when I was I would max out super but beyond that pay the taxman


----------



## Humid (8 April 2021)

But saying that not drinking or smoking and free food at Wheatstone for example I would be lucky to spend $50 in 4 weeks......although bloody ebay could be addictive


----------



## Humid (8 April 2021)

https://michaelwest.us20.list-manag...7c38ea1083d2f54c77&id=a4e9fc9bac&e=37fd81d476

Keep your bank shares


----------



## Humid (8 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Caption this please



reminds me of Paul Hogan and Strop


----------



## sptrawler (8 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Robodebt?



Robodebt - It hit some people.

Raise the pension age by 2 years -  hits everyone.


----------



## sptrawler (8 April 2021)

IFocus said:


> Penalty rates?



Penalty rates - hits those who aren't full time workers, or aren't on an annualised salary.

Labor last time in office (Gillard) - made it almost impossible to qualify for disability support pension, so most who can't work due to disability end up on jobstart.




__





						The Disability Support Pension's False Crisis – 	 	 	Opinion – 	 	 	ABC Ramp Up 	 	(Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
					

There are perfectly good reasons why the number of people on Disability Support Pensions is increasing and none of them have anything to do with people cheating the system, writes Peter Horbury from Social Security Rights Victoria.




					www.abc.net.au
				











						Tens of thousands of people applying for disability support are being turned away
					

Around 60 per cent of people who apply for the Disability Support Pension are getting rejected, because of a crackdown that started under the Gillard government.




					www.abc.net.au
				




History is littered with Government initiatives that hurt some, the flaw is, being so blinkered as to think only one side of politics do it.


----------



## sptrawler (8 April 2021)

Humid said:


> reminds me of Paul Hogan and Strop



Or Kevin Rudd and a forlorn RAAF flight attendant. 😂









						PM apologises for mid-air meltdown
					

The PM has apologised for verbally abusing a flight attendant after not being served the meal he wanted.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## PZ99 (8 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Penalty rates - hits those who aren't full time workers, or aren't on an annualised salary.



That's worth a correction 

Many full time workers are rostered on weekends and/or late shifts and it's these people I worry about the most because their income is reduced if penalty rates are cut.

On the aside... folks talk about both major parties being unattractive options...

Reminds me of the good ole days


----------



## rederob (8 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Penalty rates - hits those who aren't full time workers, or aren't on an annualised salary.



Penalty rates apply to people who work the hours they apply to under the relevant award, and have nothing to do with whether part-time, full-time or casual.  Salaried workers do not get award penalty rates.



sptrawler said:


> Labor last time in office (Gillard) - made it almost impossible to qualify for disability support pension, so most who can't work due to disability end up on jobstart.



In fact Gillard revised the Impairment Tables which are used in Disability Support Pension assessments to measure how a person's impairment affects their ability to work, as they were last reviewed in 1993.  The legislative changes determined the *work a person could do *rather than what they could not do, so your point is completely wrong.
DSP claims had risen dramatically as the unemployment benefit rate (Newstart allowance) was  $131 a week below the DSP, and claims had increased by 100000 in the previous 2 years.
This forum is littered with posts that are poorly based.


----------



## Humid (8 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Robodebt - It hit some people.
> 
> Raise the pension age by 2 years -  hits everyone.



If your lucky/unlucky enough to qualify for it


----------



## Humid (8 April 2021)

How do the over 50s feel about getting the Astrazeneca shots and not Pfizer like Clot Morrison?


----------



## sptrawler (8 April 2021)

Humid said:


> How do the over 50s feel about getting the Astrazeneca shots and not Pfizer like Clot Morrison?



Living in WA, ill just wait awhile, thanks


----------



## sptrawler (8 April 2021)

rederob said:


> Penalty rates apply to people who work the hours they apply to under the relevant award, and have nothing to do with whether part-time, full-time or casual.  Salaried workers do not get award penalty rates.
> 
> 
> In fact Gillard revised the Impairment Tables which are used in Disability Support Pension assessments to measure how a person's impairment affects their ability to work, as they were last reviewed in 1993.  The legislative changes determined the *work a person could do *rather than what they could not do, so your point is completely wrong.
> ...



The changes were probably written by you Rob.lol
A brickie with a knackered back, could still be re trained as a computer coder, as it only requires sitting skills.


----------



## moXJO (8 April 2021)

Humid said:


> I havnt earnt that much for a while I enjoy too much time off but when I was I would max out super but beyond that pay the taxman



I got a mate on about $250k half of it gone to the taxman.  Comes to a point where it's not worth working that many hours.


----------



## Humid (8 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> I got a mate on about $250k half of it gone to the taxman.  Comes to a point where it's not worth working that many hours.



From memory about 90 to 100k tax
On Barrow they were pushing to do more hours to complete the project and plenty were doing it knowing half was going to tax
Trying to explain more delays = more pays but greed kicks in


----------



## basilio (8 April 2021)

Humid said:


> https://michaelwest.us20.list-manag...7c38ea1083d2f54c77&id=a4e9fc9bac&e=37fd81d476
> 
> Keep your bank shares




Fascinating story. The Banks have* $178 Billion *sitting on deposit with the Reserve Bank. Worth thinking about in terms serious nation building/employment making opportunities.


_The banks have $178 billion sitting on deposit with the Reserve Bank, earning zero interest. It was $155 billion a month ago. This is newly created money. In crude terms, the RBA is “printing” money hand over fist, but why are the banks not lending it? Why is there no nation-building infrastructure program like the US? Michael West investigates.
_


----------



## sptrawler (8 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> I got a mate on about $250k half of it gone to the taxman.  Comes to a point where it's not worth working that many hours.



Just think what it was like in the late 1970s, when the top rate was 60cents and cut in at $30k.lol
It never bothered me, but my late father in law was a headmaster and it really pizzed him off.
I had no sympathy, but now thinking back, it was pretty rough.


----------



## sptrawler (8 April 2021)

basilio said:


> Fascinating story. The Banks have* $178 Billion *sitting on deposit with the Reserve Bank. Worth thinking about in terms serious nation building/employment making opportunities.
> 
> 
> _The banks have $178 billion sitting on deposit with the Reserve Bank, earning zero interest. It was $155 billion a month ago. This is newly created money. In crude terms, the RBA is “printing” money hand over fist, but why are the banks not lending it? Why is there no nation-building infrastructure program like the US? Michael West investigates.
> _



Yes, maybe we could get a loan and start a company, what do you suggest?


----------



## Humid (8 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Yes, maybe we could get a loan and start a company, what do you suggest?



Vaccine distribution


----------



## Smurf1976 (8 April 2021)

rederob said:


> The legislative changes determined the *work a person could do *rather than what they could not do, so your point is completely wrong.
> DSP claims had risen dramatically as the unemployment benefit rate (Newstart allowance) was $131 a week below the DSP, and claims had increased by 100000 in the previous 2 years.
> This forum is littered with posts that are poorly based.



The big problem from what I've seen quite a few people go through:

Over 40 = a black mark against you in many industries especially those which are more about "doing" than "knowing".

Disabled in any way = huge strike against you.

Over 50 = forget it.

Nothing new about that, it was going on back in the 1980's and it still goes on today. It's all well and good that someone "could" do something but in practice there's an awful lot of businesses that are basically looking for young and perfectly fit staff. Anyone who fails either of those criteria is most unlikely to be considered.

Some industries it's even worse. The old "send a current photo of yourself" isn't so they recognise you when you turn up for the interview....

There's an awful lot of "one man and a van" type contractors around these days other than actual tradies. Ask those doing it and they'll just about all tell the same story of being retrenched from wherever and nobody would look at them once they realised they've been around a few years. So they bought a van and went into business out of necessity.


----------



## Smurf1976 (8 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Regressive
> i



Which is basically what was proposed.

Point 2 - stopping the refund of excess tax paid for those who simply don't earn enough to have been required to pay it, whilst continuing to fully impute that tax paid for higher income individuals, fits within that pretty well.


----------



## Smurf1976 (8 April 2021)

IFocus said:


> The states have done all the heavy lifting as far as COVID goes taking on federal responsibilities such as quarantine and in some cases age care.
> In amongst this they have been attacked by the federal government for closing borders while the feds bar you from even leaving Australia while stopping Australians from entering Australia while letting their mates out / back in, not a good look.



Trouble is, the broad concept is equally true if you go back 18 months to a time when "COVID" wasn't a term anyone would have recognised.

Pick pretty much any issue in Australia over the past decade or so and to the extent there's been real progress, that progress has come about due to some combination of the efforts of state governments, councils, business and individuals.

So far as leadership goes, the federal government's been nothing more than a passenger on pretty much every issue. 

Just because I'll freely point out deficiencies in Labor doesn't mean I think the Coalition's any good either. Both are seriously lacking in ability to take a comprehensive, unbiased approach to any situation without trying to skew it for political gain.

To the extent that I do have any real bias, well I'd like Labor to properly understand where they've gone wrong and genuinely fix that. Get back to aligning with the workers and get elected to government.


----------



## IFocus (9 April 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> Both are seriously lacking in ability to take a comprehensive, unbiased approach to any situation without trying to skew it for political gain.





I think everyone understands politics is played no matter who is in the game, but I don't understand why Labor is talked about as though they are or have been in government.

After Abbott (remember zombie budgets)  thrown out by his own MP's (2years) Turnbul hamstrung by the minority right thrown out by his own MP's and now Morrison lets face it given situations make PMs has failed repeatedly while covering up and avoiding repeated scandal's.

As I have pointed out Liberals in power for 19 years Labor 6 any problems today have nothing to do with Labor.

Nick picking Labor while penalty rates get stripped from the weakest making SFA difference, running secret trials and convicting people in secret (can anyone really believe this?...silence), robo debt totally illegal (was it 2000 suicides), Ministers clearly having conflict of interests,  a rape in a ministers office covered up, $10's / $100's of millions clearly  corruptly distributed for political gain, obstruction to enquiry into the banks that revealed rape of Australians and their wealth (findings still not implemented) and of course far worse.

No wages growth and the supper unlikely to be increased...really?

Surely this is not good?

What's Labor got to do with the above?


----------



## Smurf1976 (9 April 2021)

IFocus said:


> I think everyone understands politics is played no matter who is in the game, but I don't understand why Labor is talked about as though they are or have been in government.



For the reason that it would be the Coalition being talked about if Labor had been in government for years and made a mess.

In any situation where someone proposes a change, the onus is on them to convince those making the decision that the proposed change warrants the risk of uncertainty versus the devil they know.

That goes for anything from who runs the country through to your household appliances. If there's something already in place and I'm proposing to get rid of that and replace it, well the onus is on me to convince whoever's making the decision that this would be a good idea. In the absence of that, by default the existing arrangement is the lower risk option since its downsides are known.

It also comes back to the point you make:



> penalty rates get stripped from the weakest making SFA difference, running secret trials and convicting people in secret (can anyone really believe this?...silence), robo debt totally illegal (was it 2000 suicides), Ministers clearly having conflict of interests, a rape in a ministers office covered up, $10's / $100's of millions clearly corruptly distributed for political gain




And yet despite all that and much more, Labor still hasn't managed to win in recent years.

That's a bit like saying that if I'm a runner, and I turn up at the track and find that there's a few real professional athletes there including one who really did go to the Olympics well then I've got a pretty good excuse for not winning that race. Nobody's going to say I'm crap if the competition was clearly brilliant and I still finished in a respectable time. Even the harshest critic is likely to point to the professionals and that they were bound to win.

If however I turn up at the same track and there's an assortment of unfit, overweight people wearing gumboots well then I'll be judged far more harshly if I don't win that race. Given how hopeless the competition is, it's an equally harsh reflection on me if I can't beat them.

Personally I'm not rusted on to either party but I can see why Labor hasn't been winning elections at the federal level. In short, the party hasn't convinced the masses that it has real, actual solutions to the problems so many are facing indeed it seems uncomfortably close to those who want more of the same.

That latter bit's what does the real damage in my view. Being perceived as too close to the wrong people.

The Coalition is shocking in my view but if Labor wants to change that, if they want to get elected, well the onus is on them to convince the masses that they actually do have a better plan. That they've failed to so is a failing in itself and that weakness ultimately enables the Coalition to get away with so much.

Or in other words - a weak opposition begets poor government and vice versa, a strong opposition forces the government to lift their game too.


----------



## SirRumpole (9 April 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> For the reason that it would be the Coalition being talked about if Labor had been in government for years and made a mess.
> 
> In any situation where someone proposes a change, the onus is on them to convince those making the decision that the proposed change warrants the risk of uncertainty versus the devil they know.
> 
> ...




You only have to go back to the Beazley days of Labor to realise how difficult it is for Labor to win from Opposition.

Beazley was a very likeable and passionate leader who regularly out polled John Howard, but kept losing to a party who's only policies were to be nasty to refugees, cut spending and avoid having any other policies.

Keep it simple was a winning strategy for the LNP in those days, and we saw it in the last election where Labor presented a big target and got shot full of holes.

Rudd won because the Howard government was tired, and Rudd presented a "conservative" alternative. He went out of his way to say that there was zero difference between him and Howard on tax policy, thus avoiding the "big spending big taxing" line of attack.

As you rightly infer, Labor has to get back to supporting the ordinary worker, the people who get up every day and go to work and pay their taxes. Any sign that  Labor is going to spend big will have these people wondering whether they are going to pick up the bill.

So if Labor has big spending plans, they better make it clear that the money is coming from business, high income earners or resources, anywhere other than the median wage earners who are already struggling with less secure employment and rising house prices.


----------



## Humid (9 April 2021)




----------



## IFocus (9 April 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> As you rightly infer, Labor has to get back to supporting *the ordinary worker,* the people who get up every day and go to work and pay their taxes. Any sign that  Labor is going to spend big will have these people wondering whether they are going to pick up the bill.




I am not sure too many think they are ordinary workers any more, upwardly mobile, investors,  (is there anyone not using negative gearing), contract labour, subies, endless part time / causal workers, all non unionised believing Morrison is just a daggy dad wouldn't hurt anyone (unless you are a boat refugee left to rot, Robo debt, bush fire victims or community club in Labor seats, stunningly successful female  CEO  of Australia Post and so on... note a trend here).

The majority have voted for the above and are likely to again next election.

The wealth division in Australia widens every day accelerating under this government as they feed cheap labour to their sponsors while importing skilled work forces keeping unions out of the picture...all with no wages growth.

Truly a win win.

Can Labor win? every chance they wont.


----------



## sptrawler (9 April 2021)

IFocus said:


> I am not sure too many think they are ordinary workers any more, upwardly mobile, investors,  (is there anyone not using negative gearing), contract labour, subies, endless part time / causal workers, all non unionised believing Morrison is just a daggy dad wouldn't hurt anyone (unless you are a boat refugee left to rot, Robo debt, bush fire victims or community club in Labor seats, stunningly successful female  CEO  of Australia Post and so on... note a trend here).
> 
> The majority have voted for the above and are likely to again next election.
> 
> ...



I think Labor can win, both you and Rumpy have nailed it, the coalition have had every opportunity to enact change, they have done nothing but tread water.
However as Rumpy and smurf said, if Labor come out with a plan that doesnt pass the pub test, people will always take the boring safe option.
Last election Bill had way too many vested interests in his ear and didnt spend enough time vetting their ideas, Im sure Albo wont fall into the same trap.
Australia is at the crossroad ATM, unless someone comes up with a long term sustainable plan, to stop the slide into a third world economy, the demise of the middle class is inevitable.
The coalition has shown they are struggling to overcome internal party politics, to bring about any meaningful change, it gives Labor the opportunity to present a meaningful plan, but it is up to them to think it through and make sure it takes the majority of the working class with them.
McGowan has shown, it isn't about Labor or Liberal, it is about showing leadership for all, not just their inner circle of mates and  pet sectors.

As we say it isn't rocket science, being a good leader, is about taking everyone along, not demonising and finger pointing.


----------



## Humid (9 April 2021)

IFocus said:


> I am not sure too many think they are ordinary workers any more, upwardly mobile, investors,  (is there anyone not using negative gearing), contract labour, subies, endless part time / causal workers, all non unionised believing Morrison is just a daggy dad wouldn't hurt anyone (unless you are a boat refugee left to rot, Robo debt, bush fire victims or community club in Labor seats, stunningly successful female  CEO  of Australia Post and so on... note a trend here).
> 
> The majority have voted for the above and are likely to again next election.
> 
> ...



How can I like this twice


----------



## Humid (9 April 2021)

It reminded me of this


----------



## Humid (9 April 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> Which is basically what was proposed.
> 
> Point 2 - stopping the refund of excess tax paid for those who simply don't earn enough to have been required to pay it, whilst continuing to fully impute that tax paid for higher income individuals, fits within that pretty well.






Smurf1976 said:


> That's the single most regressive policy I can recall seeing from any side of politics in a very long time.
> 
> It could apply to anyone but there's a "class" element in that it's blue collar and other non-profession workers who tend to end up on the scrapheap through no fault of their own. They're the ones who know they need investments outside super and may well be living on that for a decade or more. The smart ones have generally worked that out at a pretty young age.




This was my point 1 about regressive .....worse than robodebt which was illegal and cost lives not 5k to smsf


----------



## Humid (9 April 2021)

‘Rare but serious risk’ leads AstraZeneca vaccine to be avoided for under 50s in Australia
					

Australia will not give the AstraZeneca vaccine to most people under 50 following confirmation of a “rare but serious risk” of fatal blood clots, the Prime Minister said this evening.




					www.news.com.au
				




This what your getting you old farts.....the Aldi vaccine be thankful and remember your divine leader got the Pfizer lol


----------



## Humid (9 April 2021)

Stopped the rollout of a vaccine that they dont have to replace it with a vaccine they dont have
Clot Morrison


----------



## rederob (9 April 2021)

Elections are won and lost at the margins nowadays.
Morrison picked up the Trump types - ie, typically lesser educated - and gained only 4 seats to win.  
Morrison's policy was to have as few as possible and simply attack everything Labor put up.  Although his claims were transparently poor, enough people accepted them.
While Morrison and his team make lots of claims about how wonderful they have been in recent years, when scrutinised closely very few match his hype.
Morrison is the worst PM we have had since McMahon, and needs his prayers to be answered in order to win again.


----------



## sptrawler (9 April 2021)

As everyone said at the time, Morrison didnt win the election, Labor lost the unlosable election.
No matter how it is dressed up, it was a huge stuff up which left a massive hole, to backfill.
They certainly werent beaten by a dynamic, awe inspiring coalition.


----------



## Humid (9 April 2021)

Im glad
Imagine you lot on here if Labor had been in charge
Look at the constant attack on Andrews compared with Morrison even though quarantine  is a federal responsibilty....anyway Im off to the pub to SECURE myself a pint....


----------



## moXJO (9 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Look at the constant attack on Andrews



The guy can't even navigate stairs.


----------



## sptrawler (9 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Im glad
> Imagine you lot on here if Labor had been in charge
> Look at the constant attack on Andrews compared with Morrison even though quarantine  is a federal responsibilty....anyway Im off to the pub to SECURE myself a pint....



Mate I voted for McGowan, I know sod all about Andrews, but throwing blame around on both sides seems to be the order of the day.
But it doesn't work well with 'normal' voters, blaming the States then saying it's a Federal responsibility.
Then blaming the Federal, then saying it is a State responsibility, just confuses and pizzes people off, because it is seen as a cop out.
I just hope that isn't rolled out as an election plan, that will backfire worse than the last election, what is and isn't the States responsibility has become obvious, when Morrison said open the borders and the Premiers said "sod off".
Quarantine and border closures got McGowan a lot of credibility, taking ownership of State issues and responsibilities, that's why I voted for him.
We don't need the P.M to look after W.A's bushfires, border closures or quarantine, we are managing it all fine.
There is no wonder a Republic can never get up, when everyone is looking for someone to blame.


----------



## Humid (9 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Mate I voted for McGowan, I know sod all about Andrews, but throwing blame around on both sides seems to be the order of the day.
> But it doesn't work well with 'normal' voters, blaming the States then saying it's a Federal responsibility.
> Then blaming the Federal, then saying it is a State responsibility, just confuses and pizzes people off, because it is seen as a cop out.
> I just hope that isn't rolled out as an election plan, that will backfire worse than the last election, what is and isn't the States responsibility has become obvious, when Morrison said open the borders and the Premiers said "sod off".
> ...



Maaaaaate I can assure you on a Scomo thread I can find enough faults with the current feds not to mention Labor it comes from the likes of you


----------



## Humid (9 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> The guy can't even navigate stairs.



Who Biden


----------



## sptrawler (9 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Maaaaaate I can assure you on a Scomo thread I can find enough faults with the current feds not to mention Labor it comes from the likes of you



Maaaaaaaaaaaaate, you wouldn't vote for anything other than Labor, even if you were threatened with death, but unfortunately you are a minority.
Labor have to appeal to everyone, not just cashed up bogans and inner city elites, that is the issue.
When the majority voted for Morrison, it showed how far out of touch Labor were, they will get your vote anyway.
The issue is they need mine and other mainstream Australians, they already have the rich and the rusted on. 
Start and talk about the improvements Labor are suggesting, not just pasting up negative Morrison media diatribe, that didn't win labor office last time it wont this time.
The thinking Australians want an alternative, not just everyone saying this lot are $hit, next year there is every chance everything will be booming so that wont cut it.
Think beyond the dumb copy and past and explain what Labor are offering, it actually is starting to look positive.


----------



## Humid (9 April 2021)

Just remember to tell your Mrs she will have more chance of blood clots from the pill.....


----------



## Humid (9 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Maaaaaaaaaaaaate, you wouldn't vote for anything other than Labor if you were threatened with death, but unfortunately you are a minority.
> Labor have to appeal to everyone, not just cashed up bogans and inner city elites, that is the issue.
> When the majority voted for Morrison, it showed how far out of touch Labor were, they will get your vote anyway.
> The issue is they need mine and other mainstream Australians, they already have the rich and the rusted on.



Yeah mate your Labor bagging will deflect the fact YOUR liberal party are running the $hit show


----------



## Humid (9 April 2021)

Anyway mate you made your call on voting for your franking credits and I dont blame you but now you can sit back shut up and take what comes with it end of story.
Labor bashing aint gunna cut it


----------



## sptrawler (9 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Anyway mate you made your call on voting for your franking credits and I dont blame you but now you can sit back shut up and take what comes with it end of story.
> Labor bashing aint gunna cut it



The franking credits debacle was a scam, that is why they dropped it, it was dumb twiggy gets his, you get yours, silly billy got his, the ones who were living on $hit lost theirs.
Dumb then, dumb now, will always be dumb, just to get SMSF to put their money into the industry funds, it got exactly what it deserved.
I don't bash anybody, that doesn't deserve a bashing, unlike yourself.


----------



## sptrawler (9 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Just remember to tell your Mrs she will have more chance of blood clots from the pill.....



My missus has a cholesterol of 3.2, walks 5 k's a day, did 800k's on the Munda Biddi from Albany in 15 days on her own. 
Blood clots I don't think will be an issue.
But thanks for the heads up. 😂


----------



## Smurf1976 (9 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Australia is at the crossroad ATM, unless someone comes up with a long term sustainable plan, to stop the slide into a third world economy, the demise of the middle class is inevitable.



I suspect you've had a similar experience to me here. Could be wrong but that's what I'm thinking:

Labor's traditional support base, blue collar and other highly unionised workplaces, isn't filled with people with a string of letters after their name. It is however filled with people who are very good at making things happen and at grasping that A + B in due course does = C.

I recall very well an assortment of discussions, union meetings and so on years ago and there was a definite shaking of heads at the time. Keating was the PM then, so 1990's, and there was a very clear thought that government was going down the wrong path and that in due course we'd end up pushing the middle class into the lower class. A society with a few rich and everyone else relatively poor.

At that time there were no shortage of academics and politicians on both sides insisting that they knew best and that with all due respect these guys with the spanners really ought to stick to their trade. Free trade and a level playing field will make everyone better off they promised, meanwhile getting rid of "inefficient" state-owned utilities and so on whilst outsourcing everything done by governments that isn't in an office would save everyone a fortune. 

Hardly a day went by without "internationally competitive", "microeconomic reform", or "level playing field" being uttered by politicians of the era and I mean that literally, those terms were almost constantly in the news.

A quarter century later and it's not hard to see who was right. It wasn't the academics and it sure wasn't the politicians. Those who work on the factory floor may not have an economics degree but they were dead right that swapping manufacturing and intellectual things for coal mining, low value services and turning universities into businesses wasn't going to end at all well.

I'd vote Labor, even if they proposed higher taxes, if they were going to use the money to reverse the situation in a credible manner. 

Get manufacturing back up and running on a massive scale. Turn universities back into institutions of excellence aimed at research and teaching Australian students. Fix our education and health care systems. And so on. Fixing actual problems not trivial distractions or playing politics.


----------



## Humid (9 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> The franking credits debacle was a scam, that is why they dropped it, it was dumb twiggy gets his, you get yours, silly billy got his, the ones who were living on $hit lost theirs.
> Dumb then, dumb now, will always be dumb, just to get SMSF to put their money into the industry funds, it got exactly what it deserved.
> I don't bash anybody, that doesn't deserve a bashing, unlike yourself.



No but you dont seem very vocal on issues that dont concern you unlike me 
Just keep your focus on Labor even though the franking credits debarcle never happened keep trotting it out to make yourself feel good
Considering its the scomo thread how is something that never happened relevent


----------



## Humid (9 April 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> I suspect you've had a similar experience to me here. Could be wrong but that's what I'm thinking:
> 
> Labor's traditional support base, blue collar and other highly unionised workplaces, isn't filled with people with a string of letters after their name. It is however filled with people who are very good at making things happen and at grasping that A + B in due course does = C.
> 
> ...



Yep keep trotting it out in the scomo thread after how many years of libs


----------



## Humid (9 April 2021)

How about owning what you voted for
Is it really that difficult


----------



## Humid (9 April 2021)

Yeah the reason were in the current debarcle is because Labor couldnt sway us to vote for them....
F*ck me


----------



## sptrawler (9 April 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> I suspect you've had a similar experience to me here. Could be wrong but that's what I'm thinking:
> 
> Labor's traditional support base, blue collar and other highly unionised workplaces, isn't filled with people with a string of letters after their name. It is however filled with people who are very good at making things happen and at grasping that A + B in due course does = C.
> 
> ...



Absolutely, at a management/union eba discussion in the early 1990's, management said they wanted to introduce competency standards and reduce the amount of apprentices they employed.
I spat the dummy and said "you and the government are a disgrace and will rue the day you decided that" and it has proven true, yet I'm slagged off at by supposed 'new' union people.
It is indeed a weird world, IMO it goes back to the old idiom, you can only reason from experience.


----------



## sptrawler (9 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Yeah the reason were in the current debarcle is because Labor couldnt sway us to vote for them....
> F*ck me



No the reason is, only people like you voted for them and there isn't that many people as well off as you.


----------



## sptrawler (9 April 2021)

Humid said:


> How about owning what you voted for
> Is it really that difficult



No, most did vote the same way and labor has had a major reshuffle due to only being able to get FW's like you to vote for them. 
Are you delusional? or taking prescription medication?


----------



## Smurf1976 (9 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Just keep your focus on Labor even though the franking credits debarcle never happened keep trotting it out to make yourself feel good
> Considering its the scomo thread how is something that never happened relevent



It's a key part of the reason ScoMo's in power in the first place.

Labor basically threw the last election and the end result is the only other party that has reasonably broad support was elected by default.

The Coalition didn't win the last election, Labor lost it. That's a point of nuance but an extremely relevant one and why they keep getting mentioned.

In contrast, in WA at present Labor clearly has public support that's undeniable. They clearly won on the strength of actual support, people actually wanting them to govern.

The Coalition being in government at present is akin to getting on the sports team not because anyone wanted you but because they needed someone to make the numbers up. You're on the team despite not being able to hit the ball but it was either that or nothing so they gave you a go. Doesn't mean they don't realise you can't play the game.


----------



## sptrawler (9 April 2021)

Humid said:


> No but you dont seem very vocal on issues that dont concern you unlike me
> Just keep your focus on Labor even though the franking credits debarcle never happened keep trotting it out to make yourself feel good
> Considering its the scomo thread how is something that never happened relevent



Mate I'm vocal on anything where I see an injustice, I'm just not selective about the injustice, as you seem to be.
An injustice perpetrated by labor is just good policy, an injustice by the coalition is terrible, that is where we differ to me an injustice is an injustice.


----------



## Humid (9 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Mate I'm vocal on anything where I see an injustice, I'm just not selective about the injustice, as you seem to be.
> An injustice perpetrated by labor is just good policy, an injustice by the coalition is terrible, that is where we differ to me an injustice is an injustice.



And who is currently runnig the place and when was the last injustice
Lets focus on clot Mo


----------



## sptrawler (9 April 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> It's a key part of the reason ScoMo's in power in the first place.
> 
> Labor basically threw the last election and the end result is the only other party that has reasonably broad support was elected by default.
> 
> ...



FFS smurf, don't start trying to explain the obvious, that is way beyond @Humid.
He is so rusted on a 9" angle grinder with a cutting disk couldn't move his ar$e.
Maybe an oxy lance could, but there would be $hit everywhere, having said that it seems there is $hit everywhere anyway, so it may be worth a go. 😂


----------



## Humid (9 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> No, most did vote the same way and labor has had a major reshuffle due to only being able to get FW's like you to vote for them.
> Are you delusional? or taking prescription medication?



both


----------



## sptrawler (9 April 2021)

Humid said:


> And who is currently runnig the place and when was the last injustice
> Lets focus on clot Mo



Well like I said earlier, I don't see the coalition doing much ATM, other than treading water, but having said that the last twelve months has been crap.
So IMO, the next period until the election is critical for both parties, one of them has to resonate with the electorate as to where we go from here. And at the moment the critical issue appears to be renewables.

At the moment we are in the starting stalls, labor has put out some feelers as to subsidising BEV's and home batteries, which is important for Australia because we need $hit loads of storage to go carbon zero.

The Libs are squeezing the generation companies, to stump up the money, to supply the storage and the incentives.

So IMO it is a bit of a game of poker, labor are hoping the commitment of taxpayer money to make it happen will sway voters, the coalition are hoping the incentive for generators to supply packages to keep customers will make it happen.

Interesting times.

The media are throwing crap around about roll outs, this vaccine that vaccine, but I think most like me will just wait and see.


----------



## Humid (9 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> FFS smurf, don't start trying to explain the obvious, that is way beyond @Humid.
> He is so rusted on a 9" angle grinder with a cutting disk couldn't move his ar$e.





sptrawler said:


> FFS smurf, don't start trying to explain the obvious, that is way beyond @Humid.
> He is so rusted on a 9" angle grinder with a cutting disk couldn't move his ar$e





sptrawler said:


> Well like I said earlier, I don't see the coalition doing much ATM, other than treading water, but having said that the last twelve months has been crap.
> So IMO, the next period until the election is critical for both parties, one of them has to resonate with the electorate as to where we go from here. And at the moment the critical issue appears to be renewables.
> 
> At the moment we are in the starting stalls, labor has put out some feelers as to subsidising BEV's and home batteries, which is important for Australia because we need $hit loads of storage to go carbon zero.
> ...



Look mate I dont give a rats about whats shaping up how about owning what is happening


----------



## sptrawler (9 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Look mate I dont give a rats about whats shaping up how about owning what is happening



Well if you want the truth on that, what is happening is, this is the fastest turn around from the most massive hit to Australia's economy ever.
Wayne "the greatest treasurer ever" was given accolades for sending out $900 extra welfare cheques, to those on welfare, evryone else was told suck it up princess, if they were sacked.
There was a massive roll out of 'pink batts ' which we wont go into.
There was a massive roll out of 'school canteens' which we wont go into.
But It was shoved up everyone's nose that this was game changing and saved the country, by the rusted on.
The ASX still hadn't recovered 10 years later.

Now lets go to what has happened in the last twelve months, we are now back to very close to pre crisis levels.
So what is happening now is, Labor had better get their $hit together, because despite the media smoke screen, things are improving daily and the electorate has a short memory. 
Just my opinion, the last thing I am is tribal, I've been disappointed by both sides.


----------



## Humid (9 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Well if you want the truth on that, what is happening is, this is the fastest turn around from the most massive hit to Australia's economy ever.
> Wayne "the greatest treasurer ever" was given accolades for sending out $900 extra welfare cheques, to those on welfare, evryone else was told suck it up princess, if they were sacked.
> There was a massive roll out of 'pink batts ' which we wont go into.
> There was a massive roll out of 'school canteens' which we wont go into.
> ...



And debt closing in on a trillion 
F@ck off


----------



## Humid (9 April 2021)

Humid said:


> And debt closing in on a trillion
> F@ck off



Labor Labor Labor
scomo thread dude


----------



## sptrawler (9 April 2021)

PZ99 said:


> That's worth a correction
> 
> Many full time workers are rostered on weekends and/or late shifts and it's these people I worry about the most because their income is reduced if penalty rates are cut.
> 
> ...




Well I'll talk to this from a personal side, i have a child that works for the local council, she is permanent part time her shifts are Mon, Tues, Thur and one Sat a month.
If a public holiday falls on one of her days, she has to work back hours for hours lost, also when she had maternity leave she was only given two weeks paid as the older women had traded off the maternity leave for extra pay.
Now before everyone goes ape$hit, I think it is outrageous, but the child has disabilities and tells me to leave it and we facilitate all the babysitting.
So do I jump up and down to get the righteous outcome and probably lose my child her job, or do I bide my time and get her back pay later?
By the way, i had to stump up $6k for robodebt on over payment years ago.lol
As an aside she has worked there for 20 years, it is messy, but IMO it will be cleaned up sometime. Don't hold a grudge, just get even lol.


----------



## Humid (9 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Well if you want the truth on that, what is happening is, this is the fastest turn around from the most massive hit to Australia's economy ever.
> Wayne "the greatest treasurer ever" was given accolades for sending out $900 extra welfare cheques, to those on welfare, evryone else was told suck it up princess, if they were sacked.
> There was a massive roll out of 'pink batts ' which we wont go into.
> There was a massive roll out of 'school canteens' which we wont go into.
> ...



Why 12 months think how the economy was precovid
Stagnant couldnt get it moving and were going austerity
back in black lol
ended back in vacc
useless liberal party no vaccines all eggs in one basket with AZ
Bathe in your $hit mate


----------



## sptrawler (9 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Why 12 months think how the economy was precovid
> Stagnant couldnt get it moving and were going austerity
> back in black lol
> ended back in vacc
> ...



Maaaaaaaaaaate you need to calm down, rational thought wins elections, not vitriol.
Think how it was when Rudd took over it was gang busters, then the excuse for the next five years was the GFC.
FFS keep a train of thought.


----------



## Humid (9 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Well I'll talk to this from a personal side, i have a child that works for the local council, she is permanent part time her shifts are Mon, Tues, Thur and one Sat a month.
> If a public holiday falls on one of her days, she has to work back hours for hours lost, also when she had maternity leave she was only given two weeks paid as the older women had traded off the maternity leave for extra pay.
> Now before everyone goes ape$hit, I think it is outrageous, but the child has disabilities and tells me to leave it and we facilitate all the babysitting.
> So do I jump up and down to get the righteous outcome and probably lose my child her job, or do I bide my time and get her back pay later?
> By the way, i had to stump up $6k for robodebt on over payment years ago.lol



reap what you sow


----------



## sptrawler (9 April 2021)

Humid said:


> reap what you sow



Thanks for the normal caring, sharing thoughts. 😂

There is a common thread to your responses and they aren't very attractive, probably why you bonded so well with Silly Billy and Bowen, yes hopefully Albo can bring about change, because a nasty outlook like yours doesn't bode well for Australia.

I don't say it often, but you are a piece of work.
Hopefully at some time there will be grounds for deportation, because I doubt you are Australian. 😂


----------



## Humid (9 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Thanks for the normal caring, sharing thoughts. 😂
> 
> There is a common thread to your responses and they aren't very attractive, probably why you bonded so well with Silly Billy and Bowen, yes hopefully Albo can bring about change, because a nasty outlook like yours doesn't bode well for Australia.



Labor again in the scomo thread and theres something wrong with me


----------



## Humid (9 April 2021)

Im more dissapointed that Prince Phillip didnt get his letter from the Queen at 100
more than likely Shortens fault


----------



## sptrawler (9 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Labor again in the scomo thread and theres something wrong with me



Mate, there is definitely something wrong with you.


----------



## sptrawler (9 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Im more dissapointed that Prince Phillip didnt get his letter from the Queen at 100
> more than likely Shortens fault



Best you go home to bed, obviously a big night out.


----------



## sptrawler (10 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Im more dissapointed that Prince Phillip didnt get his letter from the Queen at 100
> more than likely Shortens fault



Yep, you pretty well sum up the rusted on Labor intellectual, you aren't Jim Henson's boy are you?
Like I said earlier, you really are a piece of work, fortunately what I have found in life is, Karma does happen.


----------



## PZ99 (11 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Well I'll talk to this from a personal side, i have a child that works for the local council, she is permanent part time her shifts are Mon, Tues, Thur and one Sat a month.
> If a public holiday falls on one of her days, she has to work back hours for hours lost, also when she had maternity leave she was only given two weeks paid as the older women had traded off the maternity leave for extra pay.
> Now before everyone goes ape$hit, I think it is outrageous, but the child has disabilities and tells me to leave it and we facilitate all the babysitting.
> So do I jump up and down to get the righteous outcome and probably lose my child her job, or do I bide my time and get her back pay later?
> ...



I'd bide my time in that situation but it shows what the employer gets away with.

Presumably it's not unionised


----------



## sptrawler (11 April 2021)

PZ99 said:


> I'd bide my time in that situation but it shows what the employer gets away with.
> 
> Presumably it's not unionised



It is funnily enough, but I doubt they know about it, as you say Im biding my time.
She loves working, we help out, so all is good.
But I dont think it is right.


----------



## Humid (13 April 2021)

For all the people without Facebook just letting you know this is where the peanut is doing vaccine updates......bit like Trump no scrutiny


----------



## Humid (13 April 2021)




----------



## Humid (13 April 2021)

Ep 10 - Holy Aunty!
					

Sky News commentators befuddled by a Christian survey on the ABC, wrongly accusing the broadcaster of multiple sins.



					www.abc.net.au
				




I think Barnaby has been on the sauce


----------



## Humid (13 April 2021)

Holgate calls for Aus Post chair to be sacked over Cartier watch scandal, chair says he won't resign
					

The former Australia Post boss tells a Senate Committee she was "humiliated" and pushed out of her job as CEO unwillingly by the company's chair over a decision to give Cartier watches to staff.




					www.abc.net.au
				




Morrison is a disaster


----------



## IFocus (13 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Holgate calls for Aus Post chair to be sacked over Cartier watch scandal, chair says he won't resign
> 
> 
> The former Australia Post boss tells a Senate Committee she was "humiliated" and pushed out of her job as CEO unwillingly by the company's chair over a decision to give Cartier watches to staff.
> ...



A particularly big one, Holgate was responsible for major successes read here (https://www.smh.com.au/business/com...ategy-to-deliver-profits-20200228-p545e3.html) how Holgate planned to turn things around (and did).

Forced out by a no policy marketing spin king PM not a good look.

The spin around vaccines is a shocker thankfully the states have refrained from doing this sort of politics concerning COVID.


----------



## moXJO (13 April 2021)

IFocus said:


> A particularly big one, Holgate was responsible for major successes read here (https://www.smh.com.au/business/com...ategy-to-deliver-profits-20200228-p545e3.html) how Holgate planned to turn things around (and did).
> 
> Forced out by a no policy marketing spin king PM not a good look.
> 
> The spin around vaccines is a shocker thankfully the states have refrained from doing this sort of politics concerning COVID.



Was this the one handing out watches?


----------



## rederob (13 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> Was this the one handing out watches?



A timely departure?


----------



## moXJO (13 April 2021)

*The union covering postal workers said Holgate’s resignation would not solve the “rot” at Australia Post.

It said the workforce “had been dismayed at recent management strategies including intentional underemployment, the move away from daily deliveries and a parcel back log that continues to grow out of control in many areas”.
*
_*CEPU Communications Union National Secretary Greg Rayner said “There’s something seriously wrong when management thinks nothing of splashing out on Cartier luxury watches but delivers only cut backs and service cuts for the rest of us”.*_

who are you guys barracking for?😆


----------



## sptrawler (13 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> *The union covering postal workers said Holgate’s resignation would not solve the “rot” at Australia Post.
> 
> It said the workforce “had been dismayed at recent management strategies including intentional underemployment, the move away from daily deliveries and a parcel back log that continues to grow out of control in many areas”.*
> 
> ...



Anyone that's against Morrison. 😂  😂  😂  😂


----------



## sptrawler (13 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> Was this the one handing out watches?



Not to the workers, only to the upper echelon chardonnay sipping mates in the board room. 😜


----------



## Humid (13 April 2021)

If you follow the timeline it leads to flogging off Oz post to no doubt one of the Libs feeders


----------



## Humid (13 April 2021)

You need to see the big picture


----------



## Humid (13 April 2021)

Google her Husband you clowns


----------



## Humid (13 April 2021)

Appointed by Guess who follow the ......


----------



## Humid (13 April 2021)

20k worth of watches gets that much media and political fuel and you cant smell a rat
20k 
They were 60 billion out 60 and were yawning .......morons


----------



## moXJO (13 April 2021)

Humid said:


> You need to see the big picture



What?
That you went against a union position.

You just doomed yourself to a lifetime of vanilla icecream with pink sprinkles at every off shore rig and mine canteen.


----------



## IFocus (13 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> What?
> That you went against a union position.
> 
> You just doomed yourself to a lifetime of vanilla icecream with pink sprinkles at every off shore rig and mine canteen.





Never met or heard of a CEO who was for workers they all are cost cutting, work force reducing etc etc Holgate was no different.

However one that wont privatise Aus Post, got financials investing, reduced contractors, steered work to Aus post employees then sacked by Morrison because he is an ideology tosser, Morrison then runs away and hides behind the chairman and none of them (including ministers) will give interviews.

You recon that's OK?

Remember this mob couldn't even run a vaccine rollout.


----------



## basilio (14 April 2021)

Interesting... Christine Holgate kicked out of Aus Post in Nov 2020.  The new CEO is announced  5 months later the day before the Senate inquiry into her leaving.  
The new CEO doesn't begin until Sept 2021 !









						New Australia Post chief named day before Christine Holgate fronts Senate inquiry
					

Timing of government appointment of Woolworths supply chain head Paul Graham criticised as ‘inappropriate’ and ‘provocative’




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## moXJO (14 April 2021)

IFocus said:


> Never met or heard of a CEO who was for workers they all are cost cutting, work force reducing etc etc Holgate was no different.
> 
> However one that wont privatise Aus Post, got financials investing, reduced contractors, steered work to Aus post employees then sacked by Morrison because he is an ideology tosser, Morrison then runs away and hides behind the chairman and none of them (including ministers) will give interviews.
> 
> ...



I don't want to defend scomo at all. I probably shouldn't even sht stir. 
While a core of the libs fought against some of the restrictions into our rights and some of the overbearing intrusions into our lives. It's just too late for me. I don't want to defend them at all. Even for a joke to stir you lot up.

The rumours were that Holgate caused unrest amongst workers and was launched due to a quiet word from someone that could cause industry disruption. **All just rumours nothing factual* *

There's always more then what they let you know.


----------



## SirRumpole (14 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> I don't want to defend scomo at all. I probably shouldn't even sht stir.
> While a core of the libs fought against some of the restrictions into our rights and some of the overbearing intrusions into our lives. It's just too late for me. I don't want to defend them at all. Even for a joke to stir you lot up.
> 
> The rumours were that Holgate caused unrest amongst workers and was launched due to a quiet word from someone that could cause industry disruption. **All just rumours nothing factual* *
> ...




It's worth noting that a lot of jobs have been saved by letting post offices function as banks instead of having to close their doors.









						'She saved us': Post office owners back Christine Holgate
					

Post office owners are mailing $5 notes to the prime minister with letters of support for Australia Post boss Christine Holgate, who is trying to save her career.




					www.smh.com.au


----------



## Humid (14 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> Was this the one handing out watches?



Not a Rolex though









						Fake Rolex excuse is worse than accepting bribes
					

If politicians accepted $250,000 gifted Rolex watches thinking they were "fakes" what does that say about copyright enforcement?




					www.afr.com


----------



## moXJO (14 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Not a Rolex though
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hope they got the papers or its hard to shift.


----------



## sptrawler (14 April 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> It's worth noting that a lot of jobs have been saved by letting post offices function as banks instead of having to close their doors.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Two things about that:
1  Post offices always used to be outlets for a bank, so it is nothing new.

2 Why would you give senior managers an extra bonus, for coming up with an idea for something they used to do, what do they get paid mega bucks for? Looking good in the board room?
Why should they get a bonus for basically doing their jobs. it would be like giving the posties a Rolex each for coming up with a better way of putting a letter in a letter box.😂

All we are really trying to do, is excuse bad managerial form, for the sake of bagging the P.M.🤣

I'm surprised the media hasn't bagged Morrison, for not flying over to Kalbarri pre cyclone, so he stop it crossing the coast.


----------



## moXJO (14 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Two things about that:
> 1  Post offices always used to be outlets for a bank, so it is nothing new.
> 
> 2 Why would you give senior managers an extra bonus, for coming up with an idea for something they used to do, what do they get paid mega bucks for? Looking good in the board room?
> ...



It's true. They literally just looked overseas and used ideas that were already implemented elsewhere while sacking a bunch of posties and reducing their hours.


----------



## Humid (14 April 2021)

20 k 









						NBN Co paid staff almost $80m in bonuses in 2020
					

Labor has slammed the company building the national broadband network over lavish bonuses and called on the Morrison government to explain.




					www.afr.com


----------



## sptrawler (14 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> It's true. They literally just looked overseas and used ideas that were already implemented elsewhere while sacking a bunch of posties and reducing their hours.



The post office was an outlet for the CBA for nearly a century, everyone knows that, they aren't going to replace her for 12 months kind of shows how little they need CEO's IMO.
But the hatred of the Libs by the pitchfork tribe, far exceeds their hatred of pizz poor management, they will get back on managements ar$e when they haven't got the Libs to complain about. 🤣


----------



## sptrawler (14 April 2021)

Humid said:


> 20 k
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Why would you worry about that, the NBN saved a $hit load more money for the Australian public, than Australia Post has, just by dumping fibre to the home.


----------



## Humid (14 April 2021)

Mr potato head is facing some scrutiny









						Grants program overseen by Peter Dutton now under auditor-general investigation
					

The audit is set to review whether appropriate guidelines were in place, whether applications were assessed in accordance with proper guidelines, and whether funding decisions were appropriately informed and documented.




					www.sbs.com.au


----------



## rederob (15 April 2021)

Over a year to plan for the inevitable vaccine rollout and Morrison has stuffed up every aspect of it.
We are now at iteration "C" and finally he's realised that the States can save the commonwealth's bacon, as they have from the start.
With any luck they might have vaccination clinics parked outside football stadiums so we can kill two birds with one stone.  Or maybe after the game the winning team's supporters get the Pfizer jab, and losers' AZ.


----------



## Humid (15 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Why would you worry about that, the NBN saved a $hit load more money for the Australian public, than Australia Post has, just by dumping fibre to the home.



oz post last year was 53m in profit before tax and payed tax, its shareholder the guvnuts gained 21m


----------



## Humid (15 April 2021)

Its all going to be alright 
We are on a war footing lol
Who makes this $hit up?


----------



## Humid (15 April 2021)

Great product









						Australia's COVIDSafe app costs AU$100,000 per month to keep running | ZDNet
					

So-called digital sunscreen app has only found 17 cases.




					www.zdnet.com


----------



## rederob (15 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Great product
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Maybe we can add a poll somewhere to see if anyone actually uses it.
At a recent family and friends get together none of the 20 or so attending had used it this year, and some had not downloaded it!


----------



## sptrawler (15 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Its all going to be alright
> We are on a war footing lol
> Who makes this $hit up?
> 
> ...



Looks like the AFR, so it would be nine entertainment, which is what the news is these days, entertainment. 😂


----------



## sptrawler (15 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Great product
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good point, I use the W.A covid safe app, I wonder how much all the State apps and the Federal app's cost, when added together?

Also as a side point, I wonder if the Federal Government didn't have an app, would you be going on about that? I think you would be calling them inept, for not having an app.  😂


----------



## orr (15 April 2021)

Humid said:


> on a war footing lol
> Who makes this $hit up?




Last days in the Bunker....


----------



## sptrawler (15 April 2021)

orr said:


> Last days in the Bunker....



At last someone talking sense. 

The only one's who can stuff it up for Labor this time around, is the media, by overdoing it and the coalition getting the sympathy vote for being bullied. 😂


----------



## Humid (15 April 2021)

Scummo from marketing


----------



## Humid (15 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Good point, I use the W.A covid safe app, I wonder how much all the State apps and the Federal app's cost, when added together?
> 
> Also as a side point, I wonder if the Federal Government didn't have an app, would you be going on about that? I think you would be calling them inept, for not having an app.  😂



Do you use your burner phone 007


----------



## sptrawler (15 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> I want to know how they found it?
> 
> Anonymous tip would look very suss.






Humid said:


> Do you use your burner phone 007



Absolutely, there is no way I w ant them knowing where I am, Mr Smart, or can I call you Maxwell?


----------



## moXJO (15 April 2021)

Anyone see the dancer 'abc edit' at the ship launch?

Funny stuff


----------



## sptrawler (15 April 2021)

Humid said:


> oz post last year was 53m in profit before tax and payed tax, its shareholder the guvnuts gained 21m



Why wouldnt they have a profit, they have completely gutted the service, buy something on the internet from U.K, U.S, China or India with tracking, 4-7 days to get to Aust 9-14 days to get to Perth after it hits Aust, absolutely brilliant buy them a watch.
The funny thing is Laborites cheering them on, the service is woefull these days , but hey the last thing you guys care about is performance.lol
I bought an electric scooter from Melbourne a couple of months ago, a week or two later the company sent a questionaire for me to complete about how satisfied I was with the scooter, I sent back that I still hadnt received it, they couldnt believe it.lol
The company was electrickicks.


----------



## Humid (15 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Why wouldnt they have a profit, they have completely gutted the service, buy something on the internet from U.K, U.S, China or India with tracking, 4-7 days to get to Aust 9-14 days to get to Perth after it hits Aust, absolutely brilliant buy them a watch.
> The funny thing is Laborites cheering them on, the service is woefull these days , but hey the last thing you guys care about is performance.lol
> I bought an electric scooter from Melbourne a couple of months ago, a week or two later the company sent a questionaire for me to complete about how satisfied I was with the scooter, I sent back that I still hadnt received it, they couldnt believe it.lol
> The company was electrickicks.



Maaaaate
I tried enlightening you on the smoke and mirrors of the Libs wanting to flog off Oz post but you flog on about watches are you that naive to really think this about watches?
Get a grip Homer youve been out of the nuclear/power station too long

Also I dont know if you noticed but there was a little pandemic going on and very little flying so road haulage with borders and huge demand was a lot to blame
Try Toll from interstate they are worse than Oz post and thats saying something.


----------



## basilio (15 April 2021)

Peter Dutton has  yet again managed to  make the Scumo government and him in particular look lie a royal bunch of  dumb  twats. Directly intervenes to stop Kristina Kenneally using a Gov plane for parliamentary business, then sees her make her own way their and giving him and almighty kick up the goolies for his troubles.

_“Peter Dutton did the one thing he could as defence minister and cancelled the committee’s flight on a Government Special Purpose Aircraft,” she said.

*“This from the same Minister who didn’t hesitate in spending $36,000 of taxpayers’ money flying himself on the same Government Special Purpose Aircraft from Queensland to Tasmania to announce a highly political “Safer Seats Rorts” grant during the Braddon by-election.”*_

Priceless









						Kristina Keneally to make own way to Christmas Island after Peter Dutton blocks use of RAAF jet
					

Labor frontbencher and members of parliamentary committee plan to visit Biloela Tamil family held in immigration detention




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## sptrawler (15 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Maaaaate
> I tried enlightening you on the smoke and mirrors of the Libs wanting to flog off Oz post but you flog on about watches are you that naive to really think this about watches?
> Get a grip Homer youve been out of the nuclear/power station too long
> 
> ...



Maaaaaaaaaaate, i was just explaining that just because they made a profit and gave the execs a watch, doesn't mean they are doing a good job, 14 days express delivery from pick up Melbourne to drop off Riverton, Perth isn't good IMO.
Everywhere else in the World has covid lockdowns, I have bought stuff in the last twelve months for the bikes, from U.K, India and the U.S with tracking, Aust Post is $hit.
If you want to congratulate them for the group hug and watches all round, "knock yourself out", easy to see why you are easily pleased with one political party, once you have made your mind up nothing changes it, you're a lifer. 
As for the Libs selling it off, what have you emptied the tank on 'work choices' and shutting down medicare, jeez it is ridiculous, there is every possibility that the Libs will be chucked out, as they should be, we need a change.
But as I said earlier, the only thing that can stuff it up is the media overcooking it and they are well on their way to doing it, watch this space. 
I made a post in the Labor Party thread one year before the last election, I said "Silly Billy may well have just lost, the unlosable election", when he announced the franking credit changes, well history repeats sunshine.
This time the media could well lose it for Labor, they are setting themselves up for a big fall, all the Libs have to do is roll out answers to the ridiculous media barrage.
Then it becomes free advertising for a job well done, they just bounce off the media's negative press, easy peasy. 🤪
You have to remember all the media is presenting at the moment, is small targets, when it comes to the election small targets don't matter, people want big issues and awe.
Well there isn't much being said in the press about the economy, but it is doing well, there isn't much being said about climate change issues, we are doing well, the press is doing the Libs a favour by keeping it all low key.
When the election campaign cranks up, it will be interesting to see how it unfolds.
Like I said, I actually think it is time for a change, hopefully Albo can pull it off.


----------



## Humid (15 April 2021)

Electrickicks says they use couriers?


----------



## Humid (15 April 2021)

If scummo wanted to flog Oz post to his mates I would assume you wouldnt want the business to be kicking too many goals and try explaining to Joe Public why.

Before the covid Oz post were actually pretty good from Melbs and Sydney never buy from Brissy its a block hole for parcels

What Shorten has to do with any of this is just you when you get cornered trotting  out the same old 
Yawns ......franking credits unloseable election 

blah blah blah
the default homer crap


----------



## Humid (15 April 2021)

How do you think Scummo will go if he goes to the footy in Perth tomorrow night and they post his fat head on the big screen at Optus


----------



## Humid (15 April 2021)

This bloke is seriously deluded
Can we get Abbott back


----------



## sptrawler (15 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Electrickicks says they use couriers?



They do Australia Post, who is now star track. 😂
It certainly has slowed down to Australia post speed, rather than pick up star track to UPS speed, more watches for the bosses. 🤪 

*StarTrack* is now a business of *Australia Post* and delivers some *Australia Post* parcels – which is why you see more of our blue delivery vans on the road today.


----------



## sptrawler (15 April 2021)

Humid said:


> If scummo wanted to flog Oz post to his mates I would assume you wouldnt want the business to be kicking too many goals and try explaining to Joe Public why.
> 
> Before the covid Oz post were actually pretty good from Melbs and Sydney never buy from Brissy its a block hole for parcels
> 
> ...



I'll stop trotting out silly Billy from 2019, when you stop trotting out Howard from 2006, the default humid ancient history lesson. Blah, blah ,blah


----------



## Humid (15 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> They do Australia Post, who is now star track. 😂
> It certainly has slowed down to Australia post speed, rather than pick up star track to UPS speed, more watches for the bosses. 🤪
> 
> *StarTrack* is now a business of *Australia Post* and delivers some *Australia Post* parcels – which is why you see more of our blue delivery vans on the road





sptrawler said:


> They do Australia Post, who is now star track. 😂
> It certainly has slowed down to Australia post speed, rather than pick up star track to UPS speed, more watches for the bosses. 🤪
> 
> *StarTrack* is now a business of *Australia Post* and delivers some *Australia Post* parcels – which is why you see more of our blue delivery vans on the road today.



They operate from Perth Airport 
can you join the dots ....no flights 
No airport where you live so you probably havnt seen the decline in airport traffic
As  fifo you see a lot more


----------



## Humid (15 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I'll stop trotting out silly Billy from 2019, when you stop trotting out Howard from 2006, the default humid ancient history lesson. Blah, blah ,blah



Do some trawling like your namesake and show where i have mentioned Howard


----------



## sptrawler (15 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Do some trawling like your namesake and show where i have mentioned Howard



All i have to do is search 'work choices' i'm sure I've seen you throw that chestnut in the ring. 😂


----------



## sptrawler (15 April 2021)

Humid said:


> They operate from Perth Airport
> can you join the dots ....no flights
> *No airport where you live so you probably havnt seen the decline in airport traffic*
> As  fifo you see a lot more



No passenger flights, plenty of cargo flights.
By the way, Riverton is right under the flight path, so i actually do get to hear them.


----------



## Humid (15 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> No passenger flights, plenty of cargo flights.
> By the way, Riverton is right under the flight path, so i actually do get to hear them.



Oh dear you dont understand how much post goes on domestic flights
You should stop now


----------



## sptrawler (15 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Oh dear you dont understand how much post goes on domestic flights
> You should stop now



Absolutely, a pointless exercise, may as well debate with a rock ape.


----------



## Humid (15 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Absolutely, a pointless exercise, may as well debate with a rock ape.



Is she home


----------



## Humid (16 April 2021)

Ouch this bloke is not holding back!









						Look at Morrison and see for yourself - Pearls and Irritations
					

The LNP, led by the mendacious Morrison, is in a bad place. Morally bankrupt, it is destructive, by default and design. Many have followed, both blindly and with intent, and now find themselves equally bereft. Morrison sets the tone. He insisted on getting the Pfizer Injection for Covid while...




					johnmenadue.com


----------



## Humid (19 April 2021)

Alan Kohler: The doomsayers were wrong, but the recovery is no miracle
					

It’s time for those of us who predicted a long climb out of recession, and a lurch backwards when the JobKeeper subsidy ended, to admit we were wrong.




					thenewdaily.com.au
				




You wont see this on skynews


----------



## sptrawler (19 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Alan Kohler: The doomsayers were wrong, but the recovery is no miracle
> 
> 
> It’s time for those of us who predicted a long climb out of recession, and a lurch backwards when the JobKeeper subsidy ended, to admit we were wrong.
> ...



Why not?


----------



## Humid (19 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Why not?



Because it makes sense


----------



## sptrawler (19 April 2021)

You're probably right, a lot of people will read the first few paragraphs, go WOW and move on.
The media can only keep the economic news quiet for so long, the all ords is nearly at a record, hopefully Albo starts and cranks up otherwise he will struggle to get traction IMO.
The vaccine will be self resolving and most don't want it yet, so the masses will soon tire of the continual harping on about the roll out, so who knows maybe Scott from marketing has got it right, time will tell but I don't think it will be a cake walk for labor.
I'm still hopeful of a Labor victory, but I sense the tide may turn, in the next 6 months or so.
Albo has kept a small target, but time is running short to sell whatever message he has, especially if the Government call an early election.








						Alan Kohler: The doomsayers were wrong, but the recovery is no miracle
					

It’s time for those of us who predicted a long climb out of recession, and a lurch backwards when the JobKeeper subsidy ended, to admit we were wrong.




					thenewdaily.com.au
				



From the article:
_It’s time for those of us who predicted a long painful climb out of recession, and a lurch backwards when the JobKeeper subsidy ended, to admit we were wrong.

On Thursday, ABS data confirmed that Australia’s employment recovery is stunning and the end of JobKeeper is likely to be just a speed bump.

It could all come unstuck because of the vaccine debacle, of course, but so far so good.


Employment is now 69,000 higher than before the pandemic began; hours worked are up by 1.2 per cent; workforce participation is at a record high of 66.3 per cent; and Deloitte Access Economics says GDP returned to its pre-pandemic level sometime in February or March_.


----------



## Humid (19 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> You're probably right, a lot of people will read the first few paragraphs, go WOW and move on.
> The media can only keep the economic news quiet for so long, the all ords is nearly at a record, hopefully Albo starts and cranks up otherwise he will struggle to get traction IMO.
> The vaccine will be self resolving and most don't want it yet, so the masses will soon tire of the continual harping on about the roll out, so who knows maybe Scott from marketing has got it right, time will tell but I don't think it will be a cake walk for labor.
> I'm still hopeful of a Labor victory, but I sense the tide may turn, in the next 6 months or so.
> ...




I dunno if West Coast Eagles fans are booing him he wont poll well here


----------



## sptrawler (19 April 2021)

Humid said:


> I dunno if West Coast Eagles fans are booing him he wont poll well here



Time will tell, but the public has a very short memory, hopefully the bad news keeps rolling.


----------



## IFocus (19 April 2021)

So Morrison has gone to the states to hide behind and blame share with the vaccine roll out.

The States have all had a different approach to COVID with some common methods all have had great success so why wouldn't you? 

I think the states will sort it out as long as there is supply and I suspect they will sort that as well.

One thing the states wont tolerate is anyone trying to off load blame so watch Morrison being our best mate while the states do the heavy lifting...again.


----------



## Humid (19 April 2021)

Gutting the public service and using your mates in business to roll out the vaccine is working a treat lol


----------



## sptrawler (19 April 2021)

IFocus said:


> So Morrison has gone to the states to hide behind and blame share with the vaccine roll out.
> 
> The States have all had a different approach to COVID with some common methods all have had great success so why wouldn't you?
> 
> ...



I suppose the other thing is, the Feds don't actually have any hospitals, the States run their own.


----------



## Humid (19 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I suppose the other thing is, the Feds don't actually have any hospitals, the States run their own.



Looking at aged care it might be a good thing


----------



## sptrawler (19 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Looking at aged care it might be a good thing



Yes, my mum down in Bunbury, had her first vaccine ages ago.
Like I said, hoping on the public having a long memory, wont work IMO.


----------



## moXJO (19 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Alan Kohler: The doomsayers were wrong, but the recovery is no miracle
> 
> 
> It’s time for those of us who predicted a long climb out of recession, and a lurch backwards when the JobKeeper subsidy ended, to admit we were wrong.
> ...



Low jobless rate, general public had a year off, plenty of cash. Yeah that's a real vote losing combination.


----------



## Humid (19 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> Low jobless rate, general public had a year off, plenty of cash. Yeah that's a real vote losing combination.



Call an election then


----------



## sptrawler (19 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> Low jobless rate, general public had a year off, plenty of cash. Yeah that's a real vote losing combination.



Another article, along the same lines, that doom and gloom was going to prevail and has been proven wrong. Well that is up until now, who knows what the future holds, but ATM the splash of cash by the Governments around the World seems to have avoided a disaster. 








						An invasion of corporate zombies may still be on the horizon
					

When the pandemic hit there was expected to be a wave of corporate failures. It hasn’t eventuated, but there are grave fears over what the future holds.




					www.smh.com.au
				



From the article, the Australia specific component:

_Last month it issued a research paper that looked at a “bankruptcy gap” that has emerged globally. The number of bankruptcies since the start of the pandemic has fallen well short of the tidal wave expected.
We’ve seen that here. At their peak the major Australian banks had more than $250 billion of loans to small businesses and households where principal repayments and interest charges were being deferred. More than 90 per cent of those loans have now resumed normal repayments.

While the Reserve Bank has said business insolvencies started to rise towards the end of last year they were still occurring at well under half their rate of the pre-COVID years despite the pandemic.
The fiscal response and access to credit on remarkably cheap terms from banks that can borrow from the RBA at 0.1 per cent are the obvious explanations for the absence of the anticipated corporate blood-letting._


----------



## IFocus (19 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I suppose the other thing is, the Feds don't actually have any hospitals, the States run their own.




Hospitals run at full tilt now vaccinations need to be dispensed outside of that system hence the vaccination hubs but really it should have been handed to the states anyway


----------



## sptrawler (19 April 2021)

IFocus said:


> Hospitals run at full tilt now vaccinations need to be dispensed outside of that system hence the vaccination hubs but really it should have been handed to the states anyway



Definitely, the logistics lend itself to a State run roll out, they have the resources, the venues and the people to do it. The Feds really haven't got anything, other than the money to pay for the vaccine.


----------



## Humid (19 April 2021)

IFocus said:


> Hospitals run at full tilt now vaccinations need to be dispensed outside of that system hence the vaccination hubs but really it should have been handed to the states anyway



No photo ops if the States handle it


----------



## moXJO (19 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Call an election then



Ok

ELECTION TIME.


----------



## moXJO (19 April 2021)

Can travel to NZ now without 14 days in quarantine. Oh our covid response is such a mess.


----------



## Humid (19 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> Can travel to NZ now without 14 days in quarantine. Oh our covid response is such a mess.



Would be worse if it wasnt for the states but your right.


----------



## sptrawler (19 April 2021)

As I said, sooner or later the economy has to start and hit the media, even if they don't want to talk about it.
Even the ABC has to talk about it.
IMO  Albo is going to have to start his run in the next couple of months, or I think this will run away from him.
The other issue is, there is a budget due soon and if the splash of cash coincides with more opening of borders, it will lift people's spirits.









						Massive government spending has supported the economy — and the banks are benefiting
					

Loose monetary policy and government spending have supported the economy during the coronavirus pandemic and the banks are smiling.




					www.abc.net.au
				



From the article:
_Australia's economy is growing so strongly at the moment because of massive amounts of government spending (fiscal policy) and exceptionally low interest rates (monetary policy).

Our Commonwealth, state and territory governments spent hundreds of billions of dollars to support the economy through the pandemic, and we're seeing the results.
In July, in the middle of the lockdowns, the national unemployment rate hit 7.5 per cent.

But the latest figures show the unemployment rate has already fallen back to 5.6 per cent.

As we speak, more people are employed than ever before.

Before the coronavirus pandemic, the previous peak was 13,008,700 people in paid employment.

Last month, there were 13,077,600 people in paid employment.
This has occurred while international borders have been closed, so the rate of population growth has pulled back sharply.

The participation rate is now sitting at a record high of 66.3 per cent.

That means the size of the labour force, as a proportion of the working-age population, has never been larger.

Business conditions are at a record high. Consumer confidence is at an 11-year high.

All of these things are linked to massive government spending (both here and abroad) and health measures that prevented the virus getting out of control last year_.

_The mistakes the federal government has made with the vaccine rollout could disrupt the recovery and cost the economy dearly.

But at the moment, job vacancies are high and __employers are reporting difficulties finding workers with suitable skill_s.

Property prices an issue, again​_Here are some of their current views on broad dynamics in the property market:
CBA thinks property prices will grow by 10 per cent this year.

Mr Comyn said owner-occupiers and first home buyers were accounting for a much larger share of the demand this time around.

Roughly 75 per cent of the demand was coming from owner-occupiers (and 15 per cent of that belonged to first home buyers). The remaining 25 per cent belonged to investors.

"That's quite different to what we've seen previously," Mr Comyn said.

"These factors are positive, not the least because it means more Australians are buying their first home, but also because they point to greater stability in the market."
None of the bank bosses expressed concern about property price growth at the moment.

However, Mr Comyn said if regulators did step in at some stage, they should consider using  measures that won't make it harder for first home buyers to enter the market.

He said restrictions could be targeted towards investors, for example, while leaving new entrants to the market alone.

"No measure that we can take is perfect, whether that be [to cap] investor interest only, whether that be to cap higher loan-to-value ratios, or to restrict the maximum that people can borrow as a function of their income," he said.

"Typically those measures tend to impact first home buyers who are younger, typically, and borrowing higher proportions of their incomes with fewer savings to be able to provide a larger deposit.

"We could look for ways to sort of bifurcate or target those measures to have as few unintended consequences as possible_."


----------



## moXJO (19 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Would be worse if it wasnt for the states but your right.



All the labor states were authoritarian dicks about it. The majority of deaths were from Labor land.

Fighting libs on this front is a losing strategy imo


----------



## Humid (19 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> All the labor states were authoritarian dicks about it. The majority of deaths were from Labor land.
> 
> Fighting libs on this front is a losing strategy imo



Really? was pretty casual in WA ask the Libs all 2 of them


----------



## moXJO (19 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Really? was pretty casual in WA ask the Libs all 2 of them



Yeah $50k fines were casual as.


----------



## Humid (19 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> Yeah $50k fines were casual as.



Jail is even funnier....cant fix stupid


----------



## moXJO (20 April 2021)

Humid said:


> cant fix stupid



But you can elect them to lead in the labor and liberal party apparently.


----------



## Humid (20 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> But you can elect them to lead in the labor and liberal party apparently.



So you will be voting the Greens?


----------



## SirRumpole (20 April 2021)

Slomo had a go at inner city voters today.

Good.

The more people he offends, the less chance he's got of getting back.


----------



## sptrawler (20 April 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Slomo had a go at inner city voters today.
> 
> Good.
> 
> The more people he offends, the less chance he's got of getting back.



He is probably wanting the inner City Elites to keep voting Labor, that way the low and middle income majority will tend toward Liberal, as they did last election.
The more the silver spoon, Tesla driving brigade put down the Libs, the more the working class support them, pretty clever by Morrison really.
It is going to be a very interesting election campaign, for a change.


----------



## Humid (20 April 2021)

Last week


----------



## Humid (20 April 2021)

This week


----------



## Humid (20 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> Low jobless rate, general public had a year off, plenty of cash. Yeah that's a real vote losing combination.



What about the businesses that were proped up by jobseeker as these stats were in March,It could of been the only thing holding them up.
Also both sides of guvnuts needs to stop this 1 hour of employment = a job!


----------



## sptrawler (20 April 2021)

Humid said:


> This week
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well he has a point, I wonder what the inner City Elites are doing about their luxury apartment carbon footprint? Probably tut tutting in the wine bar.
Like I said this isn't going to be a cake walk for Albo.
Hopefully he comes out with some good stuff today, apparently he is going to lay out some of labors plans.








						Fortescue leads “stampede” into green energy with stunning plans for 235 gigawatts of wind and solar
					

Fortescue to lead “stampede” into renewables with stunning plan to build more than 235GW of wind and solar capacity and a green hydrogen industry.




					reneweconomy.com.au
				












						Mining giant BHP's renewables push continues in Western Australia
					

Western Australia's largest and newest solar farm will provide around half of all of the energy needs at mining giant BHP's West Kwinana refinery, it has




					www.energymatters.com.au
				






			https://www.bhp.com/media-and-insights/news-releases/2020/09/bhps-queensland-mines-to-reduce-emissions-from-electricity-use-by-50-per-cent/
		






__





						Rio-Tinto-to-invest-1-billion-to-help-meet-new-climate-change-targets
					





					www.riotinto.com


----------



## Humid (20 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Well he has a point, I wonder what the inner City Elites are doing about their luxury apartment carbon footprint? Probably tut tutting in the wine bar.
> Like I said this isn't going to be a cake walk for Albo.
> Hopefully he comes out with some good stuff today, apparently he is going to lay out some of labors plans.
> 
> ...



Where do you think Scummo lives?


----------



## sptrawler (20 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Where do you think Scummo lives?



Before he became P.M he apparently lived in a place called Port Hacking, I presume once he gets thrown out, he will go back there.
Here is an article, written back in 2018, when he became P.M.


_In Port Hacking's dress circle, palatial residences with stunning views of Dolans Bay trade for upwards of $3 million.
But Mr Morrison, his wife Jenny and daughters Abbey and Lily live about half-a-kilometre from the waterfront, in a modest, single-story brick home.
It's a leafy, suburban and proudly middle class area. Two Australian Federal Police officers seem an odd presence on a Saturday afternoon, idling in a white four wheel drive outside the empty Morrison residence.
They arrived before Mr Morrison was installed as Prime Minister, according to neighbours.
Fairfax Media is also told Ms Morrison had been in contact via text message on Saturday morning, checking up on things in the street.
"They're our friends first, we don't see them as politicians ... we established a friendship over the fence," said Christine Rigava, who lives next door. "It took us years before we worked out he was Scott Morrison [the politician]."
Neighbours said Mr Morrison is frequently at home on weekends, passing time on the Hamptons-style deck chairs in the front yard, hanging the washing or - on Fridays - dining at 'Perfecto', the pizza restaurant.
Ms Morrison occasionally brunches at Vitalo, an upmarket wholefoods cafe. Mr Morrison prefers D'lish on Port, where standard fare includes burgers, hot chips and BLTs.
"They come here, they don't get hassled, no one talks politics with them," said a man enjoying a hot chip sandwich at D'Lish, who only wished to be identified as "Dave".
"Just regular gossip," he said of their conversations.
Neighbours praised the family as "humble", "lovely" and "good honest people"._


----------



## IFocus (20 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> Yeah $50k fines were casual as.





Yeah nah, actually very casual you had to fail the knuckle head test to get a fine, WA police unlike the east handed out masks to those that didn't have one and you had to decline a couple of times.

There were a couple of runners from quarantine that got hammered.

Was it NSW where some one got fined for going for a jog and stopped to get a kebab? McGowan made it clear in-between fits of laughter that wouldn't happen here and it didn't.


----------



## IFocus (20 April 2021)

WA could well lose the Liberals power come the election I just cannot see Porter getting re-elected, Reynolds is on the nose,  state Liberals wont have the resources to run much of an election.

Morrison will have to throw a heap of money at the state  which they don't really have and WA doesn't need state government is running a surplus.

Queensland will likely decide the next PM

Current LNP majority is 1 which is very shaky


----------



## sptrawler (20 April 2021)

IFocus said:


> WA could well lose the Liberals power come the election I just cannot see Porter getting re-elected, Reynolds is on the nose,  state Liberals wont have the resources to run much of an election.
> 
> Morrison will have to throw a heap of money at the state  which they don't really have and WA doesn't need state government is running a surplus.
> 
> ...



I think it will be a really interesting election, the Libs are well past their use by date, Labor should find it easier because Turnbull isn't there.
With Turnbull, he lost a few Liberal voters, but gained a few center and center left voters, last election Shorten lost it rather than Morrison won it.
So this is a clean slate election, a tired Government with an unproven leader, against a keen opposition with a new leader.









						PM marked down on handling of women’s issues but voters won’t stray
					

The treatment of women is not driving voter choice to the same degree as other big policy questions, according to new polling, casting doubt on whether ferocious debate will affect the outcome of the next federal election.




					www.smh.com.au
				




My guess is, whoever has the best policy platform, with the greater vision, will win.
More of the same wont cut it IMO, people want a vision and a pathway to achieve it, well that's my guess.


----------



## SirRumpole (20 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I think it will be a really interesting election, the Libs are well past their use by date, Labor should find it easier because Turnbull isn't there.
> With Turnbull, he lost a few Liberal voters, but gained a few center and center left voters, last election Shorten lost it rather than Morrison won it.
> So this is a clean slate election, a tired Government with an unproven leader, against a keen opposition with a new leader.
> 
> ...




Hopefully we will be hearing more about bread and butter issues like jobs, housing, education, cost of living, and less from the "wokes".


----------



## sptrawler (20 April 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Hopefully we will be hearing more about bread and butter issues like jobs, housing, education, cost of living, and less from the "wokes".



Yes at the end of the day the social issues make for a nicer country, but it doesn't put food on the table, it doesn't pay the bills and it doesn't keep the wolves away from the door.
People like to help others, but when they are struggling to keep their heads above water, it is those issues that sway them.
When you have plenty of money, it is easy and very satisfying to vote with your heart, when you are struggling you vote with your head.


----------



## rederob (20 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Yes at the end of the day the social issues make for a nicer country, but it doesn't put food on the table, it doesn't pay the bills and it doesn't keep the wolves away from the door.
> People like to help others, but when they are struggling to keep their heads above water, it is those issues that sway them.
> When you have plenty of money, it is easy and very satisfying to vote with your heart, when you are struggling you vote with your head.



Scandinavian countries suggest both are possible. 
That is, social and economic policies can be complementary.
But first and foremost a *government needs policies*, and that's where we fall down.


----------



## sptrawler (20 April 2021)

rederob said:


> Scandinavian countries suggest both are possible.
> That is, social and economic policies can be complementary.
> But first and foremost a *government needs policies*, and that's where we fall down.



As has been shown for what, nearly 8 years and still no direction.
As someone pointed out, labor have only been in office for two terms in the past 20 years, it does show there is a policy vacuum.
It shows a vision is required and I think the time is right to forge one.
Hopefully labor is on song, because the Libs are a shambles ATM.


----------



## rederob (20 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> As has been shown for what, nearly 8 years and still no direction.
> As someone pointed out, labor have only been in office for two terms in the past 20 years, it does show there is a policy vacuum.
> It shows a vision is required and I think the time is right to forge one.
> Hopefully labor is on song, because the Libs are a shambles ATM.



The last election showed that policies are only to be attacked.
We get the governments we deserve...sadly!
The likes of another Whitlam are a long way off.


----------



## SirRumpole (20 April 2021)

rederob said:


> The likes of another Whitlam are a long way off.




Fortunately !

Gough meant well and did a lot of good stuff but was heading the wrong way financially.

We need another Hawke/Keating type government. Let's not get into another argument about tarrifs , they did a lot of good but made a few mistakes.

Overall they were the best government in my memory.


----------



## rederob (20 April 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Fortunately !
> 
> Gough meant well and did a lot of good stuff but was heading the wrong way financially.
> 
> ...



Whitlam was truly *visionary*.
I don't think any government has effected so many reforms so quickly - like them or not (I got a free degree and avoided conscription).

Hawke & Keating were brilliant - they were in power for the greater period I worked in Canberra. 
They were interested in ideas as distinct from driving every policy themselves.
Hawke was able to walk the line between worker and industrialist, and was also probably living proof that we should adopt the US principle of limiting the term a leader can be no. 1.

Morrison won the lottery when a bunch of numbies headed to Queensland and disgraced themselves.  Aside from that, my cat has more policies than he.


----------



## sptrawler (20 April 2021)

rederob said:


> The last election showed that policies are only to be attacked.
> We get the governments we deserve...sadly!
> The likes of another Whitlam are a long way off.



Just because you have a policy, doesn't in itself make it great, all policies should be judged on their merit and the ones at the last election were.

That is why they have now been dropped, even after the passing of time and the public has had time to digest and process the policies.
They still stink and is why they were dropped, do you really think they would have been dropped if polling showed the public was warming to them?

Fortunately Albo is much more in touch with the masses than Bill was, as is Mark McGowan, just because a party had some great leaders 40 years ago doesn't mean they automatically should be elected.
Same as many from that era are now passing away, or becoming less mentally dexterous as they age, which is to be expected and why most are no longer in politics or employed.

Again as was proven last election, Morrison did the Stevan Bradley of politics, Silly Billy blew both feet off.
If you can't accept that, well that is your business and obviously labor will get your vote come hell or high water.

I like to be pragmatic about it and vote on what is presented, not on an unflagging belief of one side good, the other side evil.
There are times for left leaning policy and other times for right leaning policy, then there are politicians like Hawke and Keating that as you say can walk right down the middle.
McGowan is showing he is of that ilk, he gave large Government grants to Kerry Stokes to supply training alternatives for Collie, as coal usage diminishes, yet he also gave all West Australians who have an electricity account a $600 non means tested credit.
He doesn't appear to be excessively left or right and had a landslide win, as he should have, he also isn't carrying union baggage which might have a bearing on his seemingly balanced attitude to issues.
Who knows.


----------



## rederob (20 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Just because you have a policy, doesn't in itself make it great, all policies should be judged on their merit and the ones at the last election were.



That statement beggars belief.
The Coalition was a policy void and simply borrowed from Labor or attacked what they did not like.
The fact the Coalition was a policy void is borne out by its pathetic job to date.
Bereft of policy, heartless, with a poor moral compass, and praying for another miracle!

Oh, and what about that promised surplus!


----------



## Smurf1976 (20 April 2021)

rederob said:


> The Coalition was a policy void and simply borrowed from Labor or attacked what they did not like.
> The fact the Coalition was a policy void is borne out by its pathetic job to date.




The Coalition is a void most certainly but if the choice is hiring an employee who's going to actively do the wrong things versus one who's simply unproductive well I'd rather have neither. If forced though well then I'll pick the unproductive one as the least bad option.

That said, I do think the penny has finally dropped and that Albanese is going to bring much needed change to Labor and that'll see them not only elected but remain in power for an extended period.

He seems the first in a very long time to actually get it on practical everyday stuff.

"We the people" want a government that helps us retire in good health, not one that says we must work until we're stuffed. 

We want a government that is right behind Australian business, not one that adheres to the ideals of Thatcherism and stands around watching the economy shift to little more than mining, services and a real estate bubble.

We want a government that protects our way of life and stands firm against anyone who threatens it. Not one that thinks turning Sydney and Melbourne into giant overcrowded cities where nobody other than elites can afford a house is something other than a nightmare come true.

Etc.

Albanese is saying the right words, it seems like he might actually "get it" and if so, well then if nothing goes wrong he'll probably end up leading Labor to an enduring victory. Assuming that to be the case, the next key will be actually delivering and being willing to upset those who need to be upset and not backing down.

The WA state government provides a good model -  firmly pro-development and supporting business, leads clearly and strongly, it's pragmatic and willing to compromise ideology for what works, finds a way or makes one, it governs for all and stands firm against anyone who tries to hijack the government and impose a minority view. Exactly what the people want and which federal Labor's been lacking for a generation.


----------



## sptrawler (20 April 2021)

rederob said:


> That statement beggars belief.
> The Coalition was a policy void and simply borrowed from Labor or attacked what they did not like.
> The fact the Coalition was a policy void is borne out by its pathetic job to date.



Funnily enough I thought I agreed  with that in my post, thus the reference to Stevan Bradley, l can see your response is a conditioned one rather than a measured one.


----------



## SirRumpole (20 April 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> The Coalition is a void most certainly but if the choice is hiring an employee who's going to actively do the wrong things versus one who's simply unproductive well I'd rather have neither. If forced though well then I'll pick the unproductive one as the least bad option.
> 
> That said, I do think the penny has finally dropped and that Albanese is going to bring much needed change to Labor and that'll see them not only elected but remain in power for an extended period.
> 
> ...




Getting Mark Butler out of climate change and bringing in Bowen who talks a lot less about it was a good idea.

That doesn't mean I don't think climate change is important and I don't want anything done about it, but a strident approach clearly rattled the horses at the last election.

Speak soft but carry a big stick might be the way to go on AGW.


----------



## Humid (20 April 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Hopefully we will be hearing more about bread and butter issues like jobs, housing, education, cost of living, and less from the "wokes".



And just how much have you heard about that in the last 8 years?


----------



## Humid (20 April 2021)

rederob said:


> That statement beggars belief.
> The Coalition was a policy void and simply borrowed from Labor or attacked what they did not like.
> The fact the Coalition was a policy void is borne out by its pathetic job to date.
> Bereft of policy, heartless, with a poor moral compass, and praying for another miracle!
> ...



just wanted to like this twice


----------



## moXJO (20 April 2021)

Humid said:


> just wanted to like this twice



From the guy that loves China. Oh the irony.


----------



## moXJO (20 April 2021)

IFocus said:


> Yeah nah, actually very casual you had to fail the knuckle head test to get a fine, WA police unlike the east handed out masks to those that didn't have one and you had to decline a couple of times.
> 
> There were a couple of runners from quarantine that got hammered.
> 
> Was it NSW where some one got fined for going for a jog and stopped to get a kebab? McGowan made it clear in-between fits of laughter that wouldn't happen here and it didn't.



Airports


----------



## sptrawler (20 April 2021)

Humid said:


> just wanted to like this twice



Lets not forget, you are easily impressed, especially with anything pro Labor.lol
So you and Rob should be able to wax off each other, right up to the election.lol


----------



## Smurf1976 (20 April 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Getting Mark Butler out of climate change and bringing in Bowen who talks a lot less about it was a good idea.
> 
> That doesn't mean I don't think climate change is important and I don't want anything done about it, but a strident approach clearly rattled the horses at the last election.



Climate change is an _extremely_ important one and ultimately a very serious threat.

It is however not the only issue of importance and nor is it something that needs another announcement on a daily basis.

What it needs is action in a manner that works along with many other things.

For one example, the aim is to stop emissions from cars cooking the planet. This involves having non-polluting cars, it doesn't involve telling people to ride a bicycle.


----------



## Humid (20 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Lets not forget, you are easily impressed, especially with anything pro Labor.lol
> So you and Rob should be able to wax off each other, right up to the election.lol





sptrawler said:


> Lets not forget, you are easily impressed, especially with anything pro Labor.lol
> So you and Rob should be able to wax off each other, right up to the election.lol



Im not in the politics of envy


----------



## rederob (21 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> From the guy that loves China. Oh the irony.



I have no reason to dislike any country!
But see if you can find anything like this from Morrison.
It's a shame Morrison won't be going to Japan's Olympic Games to compete in the *backflip* as he was a shoo-in.


----------



## Humid (21 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Before he became P.M he apparently lived in a place called Port Hacking, I presume once he gets thrown out, he will go back there.
> Here is an article, written back in 2018, when he became P.M.
> 
> 
> ...





*Bernard Keane*
“Sneering, wine-quaffing elites v good honest working folk who know the meaning of hard yakka and doubtless enjoy a coldie at the end of the day, not a glass of unoaked chardy.
Morrison made these remarks to the Business Council of Australia’s annual dinner and we couldn’t think of a better venue to urge the blue-collar workers of Australia to see off the pretensions of inner-city elitists. It was held in the grand ballroom of the Fullerton Hotel in Martin Place — Sydney’s largest pillarless ballroom, apparently — where you can ‘discover luxury and heritage in the heart of the city’; ‘a home away from home for corporate travellers’ from which you can ‘feel the pulse of the city and enjoy the proximity to iconic landmarks’.”


----------



## moXJO (21 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Im not in the politics of envy
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is the type of attack point that will sink the libs. Economy/ covid/ being heartless  attacks ain't going to gain traction imo. The sht things they have done and lack of vision is where it bites.


----------



## moXJO (21 April 2021)

rederob said:


> I have no reason to dislike any country!
> But see if you can find anything like this from Morrison.
> It's a shame Morrison won't be going to Japan's Olympic Games to compete in the *backflip* as he was a shoo-in.



Oh no way, I ain't opening a file


----------



## IFocus (21 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> Airports





You lost me Mo?


----------



## Humid (21 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> Oh no way, I ain't opening a file



Use your burner phone


----------



## Humid (21 April 2021)

Government deletes 'cringeworthy' milkshake consent videos
					

The federal government has dumped a "bizarre" milkshake video from its new consent website, deleting it less than 24 hours after defending the material.




					thenewdaily.com.au
				




Another day another **** up


----------



## SirRumpole (21 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Government deletes 'cringeworthy' milkshake consent videos
> 
> 
> The federal government has dumped a "bizarre" milkshake video from its new consent website, deleting it less than 24 hours after defending the material.
> ...




One of ScoMo's adverting mates must have thought that one up.


----------



## Humid (21 April 2021)

Heres your PM last night at the god botherers convention on the Goldy


----------



## Humid (23 April 2021)

They should of left the idiot on mute


----------



## Humid (23 April 2021)

Humid said:


> View attachment 123182
> 
> 
> 
> ...



After his meetings with Dr Andrew ffs


----------



## rederob (23 April 2021)

Humid said:


> After his meetings with Dr Andrew ffs



Australia has fudged it's CO2 position and the rest of the world knows it:
*"In the **2020 edition** of the Sustainable Development Report, Australia’s score for “climate action” saw it rank second last, sitting 176th of 177 countries assessed, with oil and gas heavy Brunei the only country that received a worse score."*​Morrison is mealy mouthed, and trust his followers will blindly believe him.
The bottom line here is that *actions *resolve a problem, not procrastination and hope.
All the necessary technology is in place to combat change, and it just needs governments to enact the policies which get them entrenched.
Morrison keeps trotting out a line about taxes and jobs which is proven false.
Again, the world knows that adopting new green technologies is where significant job creation occurs.  But not Morrison.
All these years in government and the coalition has had to rely on Gillard's ARENA and CEFC for all its runs on innovation  and investment in renewables - agencies which they tried to get rid off.


----------



## IFocus (23 April 2021)

Marketing wins elections, no so good for governing.


----------



## rederob (23 April 2021)

Humid said:


> View attachment 123182
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hard to get more recent data, but this list of top CO2 emitting nations from 2018 sees Australia worse than the UK, Poland, France and Italy:





In fact we are equal with Turkey which has over three times Australia's population.
It doesn't matter where you look for data because everywhere shows Australia to be a very poor example to the rest of the world.
You will notice that Morrison and his team will never stump up charts like these because they are damning.


----------



## Humid (23 April 2021)

Sleep well Australia


----------



## sptrawler (24 April 2021)

Well the next election is obviously already decided.
I hope you guys are right.
Your obviously going to bounce off each other well.
I personally think it isnt going to be as easy as you are portraying it.


----------



## rederob (24 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Well the next election is obviously already decided.
> I hope you guys are right.
> Your obviously going to bounce off each other well.
> I personally think it isnt going to be as easy as you are portraying it.



Americans elected Trump.
Australians elected Morrison.
There is no telling how stupid we are, collectively.


----------



## Humid (24 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Well the next election is obviously already decided.
> I hope you guys are right.
> Your obviously going to bounce off each other well.
> I personally think it isnt going to be as easy as you are portraying it.



The only thing Im portraying is a total incompetent government and how the electorate sees that I have no idea.
Feel free to put some positive spin on it like your leader...after all you voted for the idiots


----------



## moXJO (24 April 2021)

Humid said:


> ...after all you voted for the idiots



Tell your team leader not to put Shorten in the drivers seat. Guy was unelectable. Reminded me of that gollum from lord of the rings.


----------



## moXJO (24 April 2021)

rederob said:


> There is no telling how stupid we are, collectively.



I wouldn't be tooting my own horn on the issue of 'collective stupidity' while being firmly of a certain political lean.


----------



## Humid (24 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> Tell your team leader not to put Shorten in the drivers seat. Guy was unelectable. Reminded me of that gollum from lord of the rings.



I would of thought you would be a bit old for lord of the rings but it does solve the puzzle.


----------



## moXJO (24 April 2021)

Humid said:


> I would of thought you would be a bit old for lord of the rings but it does solve the puzzle.



And I'm guessing you enjoyed the xxx rated version.


----------



## rederob (24 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> I wouldn't be tooting my own horn on the issue of 'collective stupidity' while being firmly of a certain political lean.



I vote for local independent candidates with smart policies if they are on the ticket, then Greens.
My comments at ASF relate to what I see as positive for the country, and I don't just sit back and slag.  I actually say *why *some ideas or policies are bad.
JobSeeker was excellent - it stimulated consumption from hundreds of thousands previously on the dole, and didn't line anyone's pockets.
JobKeeper was a good idea but an inept policy.  By way of example Sims Limited, which I just posted on, is returning $7.5 million it does not need.   It's just one of the many thousands companies that got money but remained profitable.


----------



## moXJO (24 April 2021)

rederob said:


> I vote for local independent candidates with smart policies if they are on the ticket, then Greens.
> My comments at ASF relate to what I see as positive for the country, and I don't just sit back and slag.  I actually say *why *some ideas or policies are bad.
> JobSeeker was excellent - it stimulated consumption from hundreds of thousands previously on the dole, and didn't line anyone's pockets.
> JobKeeper was a good idea but an inept policy.  By way of example Sims Limited, which I just posted on, is returning $7.5 million it does not need.   It's just one of the many thousands companies that got money but remained profitable.



The economy is roaring along  with little to no covid infection. 

Jobkeeper was policy on the fly that saved millions of small, medium and large businesses and workers jobs. Some would say it "wasn't enough" others say "to much". They had little time to implement it and work out the kinks. This was policy under duress and it was the right choice. 

Make no mistake I won't be voting libs again either. But a lot of arguments here are one eyed.


----------



## rederob (24 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> The economy is roaring along  with little to no covid infection.
> 
> Jobkeeper was policy on the fly that saved millions of small, medium and large businesses and workers jobs. Some would say it "wasn't enough" others say "to much". They had little time to implement it and work out the kinks. This was policy under duress and it was the right choice.
> 
> Make no mistake I won't be voting libs again either. But a lot of arguments here are one eyed.



Our economy has been propped up by tens of billions of dollars of *unproductive *money.  You call that a *right choice*!
That debt burden will hang over us for a generation, and we have nothing to show for it.
The States' role in covid mitigation has often been at odds with the feds who have shown their incompetence time and again.
In terms of what's *one eyed* here, it's the baseless opinions that fly.


----------



## Humid (24 April 2021)

Roaring along on debt from the adult good economical managers no less


----------



## Humid (24 April 2021)

lol read this mo








						The brazenness of Australian oligarchy
					

Democracy was such a good idea




					theshot.net.au


----------



## moXJO (24 April 2021)

Humid said:


> lol read this mo
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Funny stuff with a lot of truths. I don't have a problem with billionaires per se. It's when they begin to decide that they should mould the world into something they decide is acceptable.

It's all the greedy little munts that want a piece of that action. And lets face it, a lot of them are in government.

As for culture wars: 4chan would expressly push the most ridiculous of lefty trends to put the greater population off. Problem was that lefties embraced the idiocy.

I make no secret libs are a bunch of shtpots. But I'll never understand how Labor supporters keep the faith.


----------



## Smurf1976 (24 April 2021)

moXJO said:


> Funny stuff with a lot of truths. I don't have a problem with billionaires per se. It's when they begin to decide that they should mould the world into something they decide is acceptable.



I think that goes for most extremes.

Billionaires are one.

The extremes of the political spectrum, both the "Left" and the "Right" are another group that tends to want to do that, they want everyone to do as they say.

Various other single issue lobbyists also tend to end up like that, demanding that everyone do as they see fit and failing to grasp that most don't see their objective as desirable.


----------



## sptrawler (26 April 2021)

Looks like the media wants to bring it all to a head, these articles lead their website. 😂
Well I hope Albo is up to the task, that the SMH is presenting, because it is very antagonistic and Albo will have to take sides.
IMO they are making it harder, not easier for Albo, just my opinion.









						PM says social media being used by ‘evil one’, gives rare insight into Pentecostal faith
					

Prime Minister Scott Morrison has suggested social media could be used by “the evil one” to undermine Australian society, telling Christian leaders they are what the country needs right now.




					www.smh.com.au
				



Bashing christian beliefs in a christian country?









						Australia Post audit reveals $7000 spent on smart watches and luxury pens before Holgate
					

A snap review of corporate expenses under ex-Australia Post boss Ahmed Fahour found watches and luxury pens were purchased during his tenure.




					www.smh.com.au
				



He walked away, after a furore about his salary being excessive by Malcolm Turnbull, who the SMH lauded.








						AMA, experts attack government failure to accept airborne spread
					

A controversial recommendation from the Australian government’s Infection Control Expert Group has raised the ire of other experts.




					www.smh.com.au
				












						Peter Dutton sues refugee advocate over ‘rape apologist’ tweet
					

Greens Senator Larissa Waters issued an apology over a similar claim but the Defence Minister has now filed defamation proceedings against a refugee advocate.




					www.smh.com.au
				




The media is starting to ramp up the rhetoric, but like i said earlier, they may well cause another Labor loss..
The problem with the media is, they believe their own crap and expect middle Australia to swallow it.
Time will tell.


----------



## PZ99 (27 April 2021)

I'm still standing by my earlier prediction on here that Morrison will get three terms although I'd suggest winding down the religious rhetoric.


----------



## SirRumpole (27 April 2021)

PZ99 said:


> I'm still standing by my earlier prediction on here that Morrison will get three terms although I'd suggest winding down the religious rhetoric.




Not sure about that.

The stuff up over the shortage of vaccines, and his abrogation of responsibility for quarantine can be played by Labor.

The economy is a plus for him at the moment, I"m sure he's praying that it will stay that way.


----------



## rederob (27 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Looks like the media wants to bring it all to a head, these articles lead their website. 😂
> Well I hope Albo is up to the task, that the SMH is presenting, because it is very antagonistic and Albo will have to take sides.
> IMO they are making it harder, not easier for Albo, just my opinion.
> 
> ...



Stop blaming the media!
If what is reported did not happen, then say so, rather than suggest it's dishonest.

A PM that actually thinks social media is manipulated by the Devil is somewhat worrisome.  Maybe he is contemplating Priests' access to Medicare to perform exorcisms.

Then we have the heartless Dutton who is offended that his gutless remarks about women in detention should be attacked.  The man is an insult to the human race.


----------



## orr (27 April 2021)

rederob said:


> Dutton .....  The man is an insult to the human race.



And an ornament to the base of Liberal Party thinking... he is truely base.

But while he's rattling away like the Babadook, at night in  Morrisons bedroom wardrobe playing to his primative superstitions, Duttons doing the country a small service.


----------



## sptrawler (27 April 2021)

rederob said:


> Stop blaming the media!
> If what is reported did not happen, then say so, rather than suggest it's dishonest.



What do you mean stop blaming the media, Rudd and Turnbull blame the Murdoch press for their ineptitude and failure, so why can't I blame the press?
I've heard you blame Murdoch for labor's failings. 😂


----------



## rederob (27 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> What do you mean stop blaming the media, Rudd and Turnbull blame the Murdoch press for their ineptitude and failure, so why can't I blame the press?
> I've heard you blame Murdoch for labor's failings. 😂



Rudd and Turnbull point to media *BIAS*.
The media shape public opinion because a lot of people don't use their nous.  
If WA had Murdoch media instead of Stokes' then McGowan's landslide may not have occurred.  Measure that against Queensland's election where Labor had a tough time despite also being very successful against covid.

The point I am making, however, is that while their might be a "spin" on the story, most of the facts hold up.
Can you point to any previous PM that literally blamed the biblical Devil for some society ills?

As to Dutton, I definitely gave my *opinion*.  What @orr said, above, pales compared to what I say about the creature.


----------



## Humid (27 April 2021)

This just plain creepy


----------



## sptrawler (27 April 2021)

rederob said:


> Rudd and Turnbull point to media *BIAS*.
> The media shape public opinion because a lot of people don't use their nous.
> If WA had Murdoch media instead of Stokes' then McGowan's landslide may not have occurred.  Measure that against Queensland's election where Labor had a tough time despite also being very successful against covid.
> 
> ...






Humid said:


> This just plain creepy



Be careful boys, you may be done for religious vilification, as per the religious tolerance act of 2001.  😂 

The Racial and *Religious* Tolerance Act 2001 makes behavior that incites or encourages hatred, serious contempt, revulsion or severe ridicule against another person or group of people, because of their race or *religion*, unlawful in Victoria. The Act went into effect on 1 January 2002


----------



## rederob (27 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Be careful boys, you may be done for religious vilification, as per the religious tolerance act of 2001.  😂
> 
> The Racial and *Religious* Tolerance Act 2001 makes behavior that incites or encourages hatred, serious contempt, revulsion or severe ridicule against another person or group of people, because of their race or *religion*, unlawful in Victoria. The Act went into effect on 1 January 2002



There is no "incitement" here, so everyone is safe.
On the other hand, Morrison has made himself a laughing stock to a great many.
The PM is welcome to his religion but some of his views seem  creepy, outlandish, and contrary to everyone who golds there is no such creature.


----------



## bk1 (27 April 2021)

rederob said:


> There is no "incitement" here, so everyone is safe.
> On the other hand, Morrison has made himself a laughing stock to a great many.
> The PM is welcome to his religion but some of his views seem  creepy, outlandish, and contrary to everyone who golds there is no such creature.



why contrary? All views are valid within an individual frame of reference.
Since when did you attain such high esteem among the great unwashed that you could count on my vote?


----------



## rederob (27 April 2021)

bk1 said:


> why contrary? All views are valid within an individual frame of reference.
> Since when did you attain such high esteem among the great unwashed that you could count on my vote?



People can be as stupid as they wish.
If they believe in the Devil, and you or I do not then, logically, it is a *contrary *view.


----------



## sptrawler (27 April 2021)

rederob said:


> There is no "incitement" here, so everyone is safe.
> On the other hand, Morrison has made himself a laughing stock to a great many.
> The PM is welcome to his religion but some of his views seem  creepy, outlandish, and contrary to everyone who golds there is no such creature.






rederob said:


> People can be as stupid as they wish.
> If they believe in the Devil, and you or I do not then, logically, it is a *contrary *view.



All very true, but denigrating people because of their race or religious beliefs is poor form mate, as was proven in the Folau case.
I'm an atheist, but I respect the rights of those who feel they need the underlying belief, in a greater power.
Denigrating those that do, just shows a lack of empathy, understanding and inclusiveness, which seems to permeate through labor ranks unfortunately, the only god they seem to follow is their inner self righteousness.
The very same people, also seem to be lacking in any self appraisal ability, which causes them to trip up constantly. 😂


----------



## Humid (27 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Be careful boys, you may be done for religious vilification, as per the religious tolerance act of 2001.  😂
> 
> The Racial and *Religious* Tolerance Act 2001 makes behavior that incites or encourages hatred, serious contempt, revulsion or severe ridicule against another person or group of people, because of their race or *religion*, unlawful in Victoria. The Act went into effect on 1 January 2002





sptrawler said:


> All very true, but denigrating people because of their race or religious beliefs is poor form mate, as was proven in the Folau case.
> I'm an atheist, but I respect the rights of those who feel they need the underlying belief, in a greater power.
> Denigrating those that do, just shows a lack of empathy, understanding and inclusiveness, which seems to permeate through labor ranks unfortunately, the only god they seem to follow is their inner self righteousness.
> The very same people, also seem to be lacking in any self appraisal ability, which causes them to trip up constantly. 😂



Poor form is going around touching people where I come from


----------



## sptrawler (27 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Poor form is going around touching people where I come from



How many times have you been done for it?


----------



## IFocus (27 April 2021)

I don't know what to make of this, anyone?

Is it a warning to the Australian people or to the  Federal Government?  Pezzullo would know it would end up in the media.

Did the government put him up for it?

Whats it about?


Australian official warns drums of war are beating​
One of Australia's most senior security officials has said liberal democracies must brace for war while searching for peace amid elevated global tensions.
Home Affairs Department Secretary Mike Pezzullo said the possibility of war was increasing.
"Today, as free nations again hear the beating drums and watch worryingly the militarisation of issues that we had, until recent years, thought unlikely to be catalysts for war, let us continue to search unceasingly for the chance for peace while bracing again ... for the curse of war," Pezzullo said in a letter to staff on Anazac Day, which honours the country's war dead.
Pezzullo did not specify the catalyst for his warning but it follows a sharp deterioration in Australia's relationship with China and a rise in regional tensions over Taiwan."










						Australian official warns drums of war are beating
					

One of Australia's most senior security officials has said liberal democracies must brace for war while searching for peace amid elevated global tensions.




					www.reuters.com


----------



## sptrawler (27 April 2021)

I guess Australia is saying, it isnt going to roll over and pizz on itself, just because the big guy is asking them to do so.
Many other countries have a financial, family and social interest in Australia.
So I guess Australia has to decide what is most important, personal financial gain, or an affiliation with the Australian way of life, which many envy.
I did start a thread many years ago, should we sell Western Australia to the Chinese, the question is now starting to be asked at a national scale.
This will become a big political issue IMO,


----------



## sptrawler (27 April 2021)

rederob said:


> There is no "incitement" here, so everyone is safe.
> On the other hand, Morrison has made himself a laughing stock to a great many.
> The PM is welcome to his religion but some of his views seem  creepy, outlandish, and contrary to everyone who holds there is no such creature.



Yet you said it was fair for someone (Folau) to not only be sacked, but also banned for life from ever plying his trade, because he made a slur that in your words (as stated above) is laughable.
Just shows how motivated you are by personal bias IMO.


----------



## Smurf1976 (28 April 2021)

IFocus said:


> I don't know what to make of this, anyone?



Stand back and consider the big picture.

Compare today versus 1, 3, 5, 10 and 20 years ago.

It's a stark contrast and the trend is not a good one.


----------



## rederob (28 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Yet you said it was fair for someone (Folau) to not only be sacked, but also banned for life from ever plying his trade, because he made a slur that in your words (as stated above) is laughable.
> Just shows how motivated you are by personal bias IMO.



Folau and Morrison seem to believe and say some really weird things.
However, Folau was sacked for a breach of contract, a fact which he admitted.
But your claims that I "said it was fair for someone (Folau) to not only be sacked, but also banned for life from ever plying his trade" are false.
I said if I were RA I would not have sacked him, and I said sport would be better off without him.


----------



## Humid (28 April 2021)

IFocus said:


> I don't know what to make of this, anyone?
> 
> Is it a warning to the Australian people or to the  Federal Government?  Pezzullo would know it would end up in the media.
> 
> ...



What it means is softening up the plebs for an anouncement and photo op on defense


----------



## Humid (28 April 2021)

Humid said:


> What it means is softening up the plebs for an anouncement and photo op on defense



Or
vaccines what vaccines....look over there a war


----------



## sptrawler (28 April 2021)

Or the fact his popularity is improving. Go figure.


----------



## Humid (28 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Or the fact his popularity is improving. Go figure.



Did you get that from Rupert too


----------



## sptrawler (28 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Did you get that from Rupert too



No just guessing that people are starting to become cautious, that the very same people that were saying we should be tolerant and accepting of people with different sexual beliefs, are now not being very intolerant of a P.M with different religious beliefs.

I think the general public will react the same, when there is mixed messages, best to stick with what you know.

Like I said a few days ago, the media may well lose the election for labor. 

But you keep pumping out your one liners, it may work in the fifo workplace, but it is a very small minority of the voting public.

Also as I said at the time, Albo really needs to get on an election footing and get the message out.
My guess is an election will be called sooner than later.


----------



## PZ99 (29 April 2021)

Hehe... I don't think an election will be called until the "drums of War" narrative gains the political mileage it was obviously designed to do by distracting all us swinging voters away from other failings


----------



## Humid (29 April 2021)

Like I said a few days ago, the media may well lose the election for labor. 

Again


----------



## sptrawler (29 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Like I said a few days ago, the media may well lose the election for labor.
> 
> Again



No Silly Billy did that all on his own.


----------



## Humid (29 April 2021)

Humid said:


> Or
> vaccines what vaccines....look over there a war











						Terrorist attack by either right-wing or Islamic extremists anticipated in next year, spy boss warns
					

The head of the nation's domestic intelligence agency tells a parliamentary inquiry that it is anticipating there will be a terrorist attack in Australia sometime in the next year.




					www.abc.net.au
				




Here we go


----------



## rederob (29 April 2021)

sptrawler said:


> All very true, but denigrating people because of their race or religious beliefs is poor form mate, as was proven in the Folau case.
> I'm an atheist, but I respect the rights of those who feel they need the underlying belief, in a greater power.
> Denigrating those that do, just shows a lack of empathy, understanding and inclusiveness, which seems to permeate through labor ranks unfortunately, the only god they seem to follow is their inner self righteousness.
> The very same people, also seem to be lacking in any self appraisal ability, which causes them to trip up constantly. 😂



We call people who believe in *and say* weird things "crazy".  They denigrate themselves by their *actions *and certainly need no help from me. That goes for Morrison and Folau. 
As to tripping up, *you *could correct what you claim I said in the Folau thread, else you might need to ascribe yourself the characteristics outlined in the last sentence of your post.


----------



## Humid (2 May 2021)

I would suggest to read after breakfast









						The sex scandal that is engulfing Scott Morrison’s office and the government and the details the media aren’t talking about
					

More details of the parliament house masturbation scandal have been posted online by whistleblower Gavin Cuddy and it is more perverted than previously reported by any media. The details also point to […]




					kangaroocourtofaustralia.com


----------



## IFocus (4 May 2021)

The quarantine thing is all getting a bit loopy.

States (mainly Labor but privately Libs as well) are whingeing hotels are not fit for quarantine particularly for the new variants.

So the Morrison government is saying Australia has the best or equal best quarantine system in the world.
But its so good Morrison shuts down in bound flights from India because of the fear on infection breakout .

Not only that but will jail and fine any Australian passport holder entering from India... where are all the conservative freedom fighters?

In WA a mining / oil and gas construction company can build a 1000 to 2000 man (person) camp in 3 to 4 months which is exactly what Howard Springs is.

So why cannot the Australian fed Government build purpose built quarantine camps (exactly the same as mining camps) and then we can get on with international travel instead of this Communist  Authoritarian Liberal party dictatorship stopping freedom of movement for all Australians.



Must say the above felt good saying that for a joke just pity its true.


----------



## sptrawler (4 May 2021)

IFocus said:


> In WA a mining / oil and gas construction company can build a 1000 to 2000 man (person) camp in 3 to 4 months which is exactly what Howard Springs is.
> 
> So why cannot the Australian fed Government build purpose built quarantine camps (exactly the same as mining camps) and then we can get on with international travel instead of this Communist  Authoritarian Liberal party dictatorship stopping freedom of movement for all Australians.
> 
> ...











						PM considers Victorian quarantine proposal
					

Scott Morrison says his government will “look in good faith” at Victoria’s proposed 500-bed quarantine facility, but there is a question mark over how much money he will commit to it.




					www.theage.com.au
				



From the article:
Mr Morrison said the federal government had already invested in a national quarantine facility, spending $500 million on the Howard Springs facility in Darwin. The capacity of that site will increase from 850 to 2000 by the end of May.

Mr Morrison said while there was a question mark over how much money the federal government was willing to commit to Victoria’s proposed 500-bed facility slated for Commonwealth land in Mickleham, “we will look at that in good faith”.

The Victorian government recently committed $15 million to planning the facility as an alternative to hotel quarantine, but it called for the Commonwealth to pick up most of the bill, an estimated $200 million.


----------



## orr (5 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Or the fact his popularity is improving. Go figure.



This will help you find the  way out of your  construted dark trawler...


----------



## sptrawler (5 May 2021)

orr said:


> This will help you find the  way out of your  construted dark trawler...
> 
> I agree with you Orr, I don't have any faith in polls.



Election day is all that matters.


----------



## Humid (5 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Election day is all that matters.



says the man who stated his popularity is improving 
go figure


----------



## sptrawler (5 May 2021)

Humid said:


> says the man who stated his popularity is improving
> go figure



Nothing matters but election day, those who want to get all stressed up over what the press want to say, have every right. 😂

From my position I'm in a win/win, Shorten and Bowen are gone, so I'll be happy with Albo or Morrison.


----------



## Humid (5 May 2021)

Lets play spot the liberals


----------



## Humid (5 May 2021)

Further proof, if we ever needed it, that a week can be a very long time in politics - InQueensland
					

Prime Minister Scott Morrison loves nothing better than a good announcement - but increasingly the details are inclined to fall by the wayside, writes Dennis Atkins




					inqld.com.au
				




All announcement no accountability


----------



## PZ99 (5 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Nothing matters but election day, those who want to get all stressed up over what the press want to say, have every right. 😂
> 
> From my position I'm in a win/win, Shorten and Bowen are gone, so I'll be happy with Albo or Morrison.



Shorten and Bowen are still there mate... pulling the strings.

Last time that happened they took down 2 Prime Ministers


----------



## sptrawler (5 May 2021)

PZ99 said:


> Shorten and Bowen are still there mate... pulling the strings.
> 
> Last time that happened they took down 2 Prime Ministers



Well I don't think they will be able to throw their hat in the ring again, maybe Bowen because he was very good in the immigration portfolio, once he was indoctrinated into the Shorten coven he went down with the ringmaster. 😂


----------



## PZ99 (5 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Well I don't think they will be able to throw their hat in the ring again, maybe Bowen because he was very good in the immigration portfolio, once he was indoctrinated into the Shorten coven he went down with the ringmaster. 😂



I think you're right.... then again after 80's Howard I reckon anything is possible...


----------



## IFocus (6 May 2021)

Something morally bankrupt about a government that runs illegal Robodebt against the poor then allows this









						Luxury car maker won't repay JobKeeper millions despite 'strong' 2020
					

Mercedes-Benz pockets almost $5 million in emergency JobKeeper payments, despite boasting of a "strong” financial performance during the COVID-19 economic shock.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## rederob (6 May 2021)

IFocus said:


> Something morally bankrupt about a government that runs illegal Robodebt against the poor then allows this
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Being tough on dole bludgers resonates with Morrisons base.


----------



## sptrawler (6 May 2021)

IFocus said:


> Something morally bankrupt about a government that runs illegal Robodebt against the poor then allows this
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It also beggars belief, that the same industry wants taxpayer subsidies, to incentivies the purchase of their product.


----------



## Humid (6 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> It also beggars belief, that the same industry wants taxpayer subsidies, to incentivies the purchase of their product.



Imagine how victims of robodebt would feel about this


----------



## sptrawler (6 May 2021)

Humid said:


> Imagine how victims of robodebt would feel about this



I am one, I'm out $6k, my disabled daughter was overpaid 2012 - 2015, didn't find out about it until robocop sent letter in 2017.


----------



## PZ99 (6 May 2021)

Any company that holds onto Jobkeeper loses their right to complain about wages and penalty rates


----------



## basilio (6 May 2021)

PZ99 said:


> Any company that holds onto Jobkeeper loses their right to complain about wages and penalty rates




Maybe.. But that begs the questions that there is a moral compass around Governments and Businesses. 

*And the repeated, overwhelming evidence around this governments behaviour is in the negative.*

Sod em.


----------



## Humid (6 May 2021)

The latest South Park episode


----------



## PZ99 (6 May 2021)

Speaking of South Park...



China follows 'Cold War' claim by cutting off key avenue for economic diplomacy with Australia

"ideological discrimination" > https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05...framework-activities-with-australia/100121002


----------



## sptrawler (6 May 2021)

What is South Park about, for those who dont watch it?
I guess the caption is in some way funny.?


----------



## sptrawler (6 May 2021)

Humid said:


> The latest South Park episode
> 
> 
> 
> ...






PZ99 said:


> Speaking of South Park...
> 
> View attachment 123836
> 
> ...



Again, PZ is South Park a political satire show, or something?

From your post PZ, I guess Australia should not have asked for an investigation into the source of covid.
It certainly upset China, obviously they werent interested in finding the origins, or knew it would be a waste of money, like the World hasnt wasted enough trying not to catch it.
Nothing to see here.lol
One thing for sure, no one will dare ask for an investigation into the origins of the next pandemic.
It reminds me of the little Johny joke.
The school sends a note home to Johnys parents about johny and his brothers shocking language in school.
So at breakfast next morning dad decides to dish out some disipline.
Mum asks Johnys brother what do you want for breakfast, he says give me some #$%ing corn flakes, Dad gives a wack across the ears. So Mum turns to Johny and says what would you like, he says anything but @#$ing cornflakes.


----------



## PZ99 (6 May 2021)

I think it all comes down to not what you say but how you say it. Australia has more diplomats to handle the delicate dialogue between here and China than with any other nation.

When you bypass the above by shooting from the hip it creates what we are now witnessing.

There are many number of ways you could stop Huawei from involvement in the 5G network. Turnbull took the incendiary approach and it went downhill from there... costing us billions in exports in the process.

Ironically, the animated sitcom known as South Park is much like the above if you compare it with the Simpsons. It's more popcorn than cornflakes


----------



## bellenuit (6 May 2021)

I don't think there is any way one could have said or done anything that China perceives as against their interests without China retaliating one way or another. 

Although speaking openly may not have been the most diplomatic course, it also showed other countries what we think and lets them know that they are not on their own should they want to be more assertive in their response to China. If China thinks it can get away with anything it wants and there will only be muffled resistance, then it wins and they will keep pursuing their aggressive action to others. 

Why do we have to be the ones always to show restraint. You often hear it said that China hates to lose face so we should be diplomatic in our condemnation or criticism. Well f*** them. If they don't want condemnation or criticism, then stop with their aggressive actions. 

It is good to see some Phillipines minister come out and tell them to f*** off out of their waters a few days ago.


----------



## sptrawler (6 May 2021)

PZ99 said:


> Ironically, the animated sitcom known as South Park is much like the above if you compare it with the Simpsons. It's more popcorn than cornflakes



I don't watch either, but once when going through customs, i was asked by immigration what I did, when I said I work in the control room of a power station, he said "Ah Homer Simpson.


----------



## sptrawler (6 May 2021)

bellenuit said:


> I don't think there is any way one could have said or done anything that China perceives as against their interests without China retaliating one way or another.
> 
> Although speaking openly may not have been the most diplomatic course, it also showed other countries what we think and lets them know that they are not on their own should they want to be more assertive in their response to China. If China thinks it can get away with anything it wants and there will only be muffled resistance, then it wins and they will keep pursuing their aggressive action to others.
> 
> ...



Spot on Belli, the more people allow them to encroach, the more they will encroach, it is human nature.
China has done a great job of bringing their people out of poverty, what they have done in 20 years is amazing, but a lot is due to western countries outsourcing their production to China.
That has worked well for both sides, if it stops working for the western side, they will just as easy cut the tie with China and relocate production then put tariffs on China.
China stands to lose a lot more than the West IMO, if they continue down this path they will be funding their own domestic growth, R & D and intellectual property, as Russia found the bright ones want the western lifestyle which makes them gravitate to the money.
Hopefully it all settles down, but cow towing isn't an effective diplomatic tool IMO.
How the left leaning think it will work, is beyond me, when they have never seen it as a viable pathway to take with management..


----------



## Humid (6 May 2021)

Well this is the moron in charge









						Scott Morrison accidentally endorses Beijing position on Taiwan in foreign policy blunder
					

Prime minister cited China policy that is not in line with Coalition position and has always been rejected by Taiwan




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## rederob (6 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> From your post PZ, I guess Australia should not have asked for an investigation into the source of covid.
> It certainly upset China, obviously they werent interested in finding the origins, or knew it would be a waste of money, like the World hasnt wasted enough trying not to catch it.
> Nothing to see here.lol
> One thing for sure, no one will dare ask for an investigation into the origins of the next pandemic.



You can read what Xi said here.
China was only against an *independent* investigation, for the simple reason that outside the representative WHO, the composition of such a group had no legitimate basis.  This is one of the many cases of throwing a lot of mud, and it sticking on the great unwashed.


----------



## sptrawler (6 May 2021)

rederob said:


> You can read what Xi said here.
> China was only against an *independent* investigation, for the simple reason that outside the representative WHO, the composition of such a group had no legitimate basis.  This is one of the many cases of throwing a lot of mud, and it sticking on the great unwashed.



Well if Scomo asked that any investigation, was anything other than independent, he woyld be given heaps. Oh I forgot he is fair game. Lol


----------



## Humid (6 May 2021)

9News - Latest news and headlines from Australia and the world
					

Latest news and headlines from Australia and the world




					www.9news.com.au
				




never stops


----------



## sptrawler (6 May 2021)

Humid said:


> 9News - Latest news and headlines from Australia and the world
> 
> 
> Latest news and headlines from Australia and the world
> ...



Yep,  nobody wants one.lol
Lucky youre booked in, thats one saved.
The rest can be stacked on top of Kevs left over batts.lol


----------



## Humid (7 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Yep,  nobody wants one.lol
> Lucky youre booked in, thats one saved.
> The rest can be stacked on top of Kevs left over batts.lol



Kevs batts arnt as dangerous as Chinas


----------



## Humid (7 May 2021)

The liar from the Shire









						Morrison blames media for travel ban backlash - The AIM Network
					

By TBS Newsbot According to Scott Morrison, it’s the media’s fault for focusing on the punitive elements of his travel ban. This morning, Scott Morrison has publicly claimed that it is the media’s fault for highlighting the potential gaol time and fines that Indian-Australians face if they try...




					theaimn.com


----------



## rederob (7 May 2021)

Humid said:


> The liar from the Shire
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I thought @sptrawler had retired.
What's he doing writing articles for the AIM network?


----------



## SirRumpole (7 May 2021)

No doubt in my mind that the India travel ban was the right thing to do considering the havoc that the virus is having there.

But it's no excuse for the government to move so slowly in getting places into service that people can come for quarantine away from the general population.

The Feds have moved with the speed of a crippled slug in doing anything practical to alleviate the problem of citizens stranded o/s.


----------



## sptrawler (7 May 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> No doubt in my mind that the India travel ban was the right thing to do considering the havoc that the virus is having there.
> 
> But it's no excuse for the government to move so slowly in getting places into service that people can come for quarantine away from the general population.
> 
> The Feds have moved with the speed of a crippled slug in doing anything practical to alleviate the problem of citizens stranded o/s.



All the empty detention centres should be returned to service, it is crazy using hotels and two bob security companies. We haven't had an illegal immigration problem for years, so the detention centres must be under utilised one would think. So until the problem is solved use dedicated staff purpose built holding facilities and bring the backlog home.
Instead of using old hotels and part time uber drivers, it seems to be a penny wise pound foolish system at the moment.


----------



## Humid (9 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> All the empty detention centres should be returned to service, it is crazy using hotels and two bob security companies. We haven't had an illegal immigration problem for years, so the detention centres must be under utilised one would think. So until the problem is solved use dedicated staff purpose built holding facilities and bring the backlog home.
> Instead of using old hotels and part time uber drivers, it seems to be a penny wise pound foolish system at the moment.



Maybe they dont want Australians to see how bad the detention centres were?


----------



## Humid (9 May 2021)

Scott Trump what a muppet


----------



## sptrawler (9 May 2021)

Humid said:


> Maybe they dont want Australians to see how bad the detention centres were?



Yes only suitable for Australian military personnel.


----------



## sptrawler (10 May 2021)

The jobkeeker cliff seems to be a non event.









						Dole numbers fall even as JobKeeper ends
					

Economists feared a drop in employment with the end of JobKeeper, but the number of people needing support has fallen.




					www.smh.com.au


----------



## moXJO (10 May 2021)

Still no deaths yet? 
Haven't kept up with the news cycle but:
Plenty of jobs around.
No one cares about anyone that got stuck overseas. Take that risk and wear the consequences.
Pretty much life as normal.


----------



## sptrawler (10 May 2021)

moXJO said:


> Still no deaths yet?
> Haven't kept up with the news cycle but:
> Plenty of jobs around.
> No one cares about anyone that got stuck overseas. Take that risk and wear the consequences.
> Pretty much life as normal.



They took the risk, they wear the consequences, is what I'm hearing also, most are saying they were stupid to leave.
With regard jobs, I'm seeing a lot of new faces in established businesses, I wonder if people are chasing money to maintain the lifestyle that the extra jobseeker gave?


----------



## Humid (10 May 2021)

Skill shortage now lol
Gutted Tafe and casualised the entire workforce then cut penalty rates to boot
No backpackers ......


----------



## SirRumpole (10 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> *They took the risk, they wear the consequences, is what I'm hearing also, most are saying they were stupid to leave.*
> With regard jobs, I'm seeing a lot of new faces in established businesses, I wonder if people are chasing money to maintain the lifestyle that the extra jobseeker gave?




And what are those 90 unaccompanied children doing there ?

It would be interesting to see what sort of parent sends their kids away alone.


----------



## Smurf1976 (10 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> They took the risk, they wear the consequences, is what I'm hearing also, most are saying they were stupid to leave.



The majority of Australian adults have left the country at some point in their lives.

Risky yes but it's in the same category as drinking alcohol or traveling in a car. Not without known risks but just about everyone has done or will do it sometime.


----------



## SirRumpole (10 May 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> The majority of Australian adults have left the country at some point in their lives.
> 
> Risky yes but it's in the same category as drinking alcohol or traveling in a car. Not without known risks but just about everyone has done or will do it sometime.




The circumstances are somewhat different now though aren't they ?


----------



## sptrawler (10 May 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> And what are those 90 unaccompanied children doing there ?
> 
> It would be interesting to see what sort of parent sends their kids away alone.



Yes strange, marriage? medical procedure? ceremony? family reunion?


----------



## Smurf1976 (10 May 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> The circumstances are somewhat different now though aren't they ?



They are but a lot of those stranded left the country at a time when if you'd said "COVID-19" they'd have assumed that was a code for something or perhaps some sort of computer equipment.

I don't know about specific circumstances of individuals obviously but some of those stranded overseas left the country before the pandemic started and have had no practical opportunity to return thus far, that's the issue here.


----------



## sptrawler (10 May 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> The majority of Australian adults have left the country at some point in their lives.
> 
> Risky yes but it's in the same category as drinking alcohol or traveling in a car. Not without known risks but just about everyone has done or will do it sometime.



Of all the people I know, only one has gone overseas, has a Thai partner. 
Left in early December, was due back February, talked to him last week, he says flights keep getting cancelled possibly back early July fingers crossed.


----------



## Smurf1976 (10 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> he says flights keep getting cancelled possibly back early July fingers crossed.



For some of those stuck in Europe etc that's been going on for well over a year now.

Book flight, turn up at the airport, check in, cancelled.

Rinse and repeat.


----------



## sptrawler (10 May 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> For some of those stuck in Europe etc that's been going on for well over a year now.
> 
> Book flight, turn up at the airport, check in, cancelled.
> 
> Rinse and repeat.



My mate is lucky, he has a place up there, but being stuck in another country without accommodation wouldn't be funny.
Anyone who left Aust, post the outbreak was crazy IMO. 
My mate is definitely thinking that way now.


----------



## Smurf1976 (10 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Anyone who left Aust, post the outbreak was crazy IMO.



If they left afterwards then agreed definitely.

It those who left beforehand that I’m not at all happy that government hasn’t found some solution for. It breaks the implied contract that government will assist citizens in a crisis situation.


----------



## macca (10 May 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> If they left afterwards then agreed definitely.
> 
> It those who left beforehand that I’m not at all happy that government hasn’t found some solution for. It breaks the implied contract that government will assist citizens in a crisis situation.




I agree, I have  a lot  more sympathy for those who were OS before the shutdown, we really need to get them back here in our old camps like Howard Springs. 

Much better than stuck OS, in theory they are there a couple of weeks then they can go home.

It did not help that NSW was the only state trying to do the right thing, compare the numbers that got back in NSW to the rest of the states, very poor effort by the rest.

As for those who have gone OS after the international lock down, well, what can we say, rather naive I would suggest.


----------



## Humid (10 May 2021)

From day one everthing Morrison has done is to keep him in office for another term
Photo ops and announcements
Now will will get a budget that just puts money back that they have previously stripped
Non of this has anything to do with covid or anything but putting his fat lazy arse back in power
Its like living in an advertisement


----------



## sptrawler (10 May 2021)

Humid said:


> From day one everthing Morrison has done is to keep him in office for another term
> Photo ops and announcements
> Now will will get a budget that just puts money back that they have previously stripped
> Non of this has anything to do with covid or anything but putting his fat lazy arse back in power
> Its like living in an advertisement



I think you are right, Albo had better start and score a few goals, the election could be later this year if things start turning positive.


----------



## IFocus (10 May 2021)

Abbott seemed to have been able to leave and return with no problems.

There are plenty of good reasons why people leave, to care for family members etc all of us come from immigrants surely there is more understanding. 

The issue isn't people leaving and returning its that Government have failed to provide fit for purpose quarantine systems, this will all go on for a very long time yet and still the government dither except for their mates.


----------



## moXJO (10 May 2021)

IFocus said:


> Abbott seemed to have been able to leave and return with no problems.
> 
> There are plenty of good reasons why people leave, to care for family members etc all of us come from immigrants surely there is more understanding.
> 
> The issue isn't people leaving and returning its that Government have failed to provide fit for purpose quarantine systems, this will all go on for a very long time yet and still the government dither except for their mates.



It's working though. Billions of dollars have also been saved because we have kept lockdowns to a minimum. Or do we put everyone at risk because of a few. 

If travellers bring the virus back and it kills someone then you lot would whinge about that. We have a cap on how many we can get back in the country and its due to numbers we can fit into quarantine. It's all fair and well saying "open up country located quarantine". Ok now try and find staff willing to work out there. 

We have had a decent mix. The risk whenever you leave Australia is that you may in fact get stuck. We have had half a million roughly since last year that have run through reasonably smoothly. We have very low transmission and still wah wah wah.


----------



## moXJO (10 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I think you are right, Albo had better start and score a few goals, the election could be later this year if things start turning positive.



Albo who? 

If they drop their "woke" bu11shit and target the rich in well explained messaging, they should take it out. But once again you need to see a competent front bench.


----------



## sptrawler (10 May 2021)

moXJO said:


> Albo who?
> 
> If they drop their "woke" bu11shit and target the rich in well explained messaging, they should take it out. But once again you need to see a competent front bench.



It looks as though they are asleep at the wheel, to me, I don't think the small target approach will work for Labor.
ATM the ducks seem to be lining up for the coalition, the virus is under control, the recession really didn't happen and they appear to be the only ones who seem to have a plan with regard the energy system over East.
So unless Labor start and get their act together, it will be another term in the wilderness IMO.


----------



## SirRumpole (11 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> It looks as though they are asleep at the wheel, to me, I don't think the small target approach will work for Labor.
> ATM the ducks seem to be lining up for the coalition, the virus is under control, the recession really didn't happen and they appear to be the only ones who seem to have a plan with regard the energy system over East.
> So unless Labor start and get their act together, it will be another term in the wilderness IMO.




With the LNP spending like drunken sailors, they are actually behaving like the Labor Party.

It will be interesting to see if Labor has a go at them for "reckless spending", the amount of debt must be worrying those on low and middle incomes who will be wondering if their tax rates will be going up.

Labor really has to appeal to the "aspirational" voters by showing a plan that creates not just more jobs, but better jobs to give a pathway for people to improve their employment prospects and get higher paying jobs.

The LNP only seems interested in maintaining the drone jobs like picking fruit, serving coffee or making beds in hotels.

Not a lot of emphasis on science , technology and trades where the opportunities lie.


----------



## Humid (11 May 2021)

pure comedy









						‘Clarke and Dawe’: Keith Pitt refuses to say a battery can back up a windfarm – video
					

Keith Pitt, the minister for resources, water and northern Australia, has refused to say a battery, no matter the size, is able to back up a windfarm




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Humid (11 May 2021)

moXJO said:


> Albo who?
> 
> If they drop their "woke" bu11shit and target the rich in well explained messaging, they should take it out. But once again you need to see a competent front bench.



Like this one


----------



## sptrawler (11 May 2021)

Humid said:


> Like this one.



The problem is humid, the Labor Party is coming across as a Disney poster for Cinderella.
The General public will generally er toward the tougher crew, unfortunately.
Last election they were trying to be the sheriff of Nottingham, this time they are trying to be a small target with no policy, they really do need to get a move on IMO.
Morrison hasn't done enough wrong to sway the public, so it will be as Rumpy says, on what Labor has to offer.


----------



## Humid (11 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> The problem is humid, the Labor Party is coming across as a Disney poster for Cinderella.
> The General public will generally er toward the tougher crew, unfortunately.
> Last election they were trying to be the sheriff of Nottingham, this time they are trying to be a small target with no policy, they really do need to get a move on IMO.
> Morrison hasn't done enough wrong to sway the public, so it will be as Rumpy says, on what Labor has to offer.



Yeah not sure they may ramp up the anti closer to election day but just saw the latest ad highlighting scummos lack of responsibilty....was pretty good


----------



## Humid (11 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> The problem is humid, the Labor Party is coming across as a Disney poster for Cinderella.
> The General public will generally er toward the tougher crew, unfortunately.
> Last election they were trying to be the sheriff of Nottingham, this time they are trying to be a small target with no policy, they really do need to get a move on IMO.
> Morrison hasn't done enough wrong to sway the public, so it will be as Rumpy says, on what Labor has to offer.



You mean the perception of not doing much wrong because of murdoch,stokes and costello


----------



## Humid (11 May 2021)

This is the problem the Rudd GFC era versus today


----------



## Humid (11 May 2021)

See any bias


----------



## sptrawler (11 May 2021)

Humid said:


> You mean the perception of not doing much wrong because of murdoch,stokes and costello



No I think it is deliberate, even the Guardian, SMH, AGE etc don't have anything, probably because not much is being said. 
Hopefully as you say, it gets ramped up when the election is called, the problem is if a snap election is called it doesn't leave much time.


----------



## Humid (11 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> No I think it is deliberate, even the Guardian, SMH, AGE etc don't have anything, probably because not much is being said.
> Hopefully as you say, it gets ramped up when the election is called, the problem is if a snap election is called it doesn't leave much time.



I reckon they have some ammo but
Rorts
wanking
rapes
upskirts


----------



## sptrawler (11 May 2021)

Humid said:


> This is the problem the Rudd GFC era versus today
> 
> 
> 
> ...



But at the same time there was plenty of coverage for Wayne Swann, the World's greatest treasurer, so Labor had good and bad press which is normal.
ATM there is no press, that's the problem, I'm not sure the small target strategy is best in the current climate, most people are home in Aust so a lot of media is being watched or read.
Normally people are too busy working, travelling etc, then the small target works. Currently?
My guess is a snap election in Oct, the Government will use the growing economy the lack of covid and a requirement for certainty to keep the ball rolling.
Don't forget a lot of people have saved a lot of money and their super will be booming,  so they will feel they are the best off they have been for ages.
Now even the most pessimistic reporters, are talking about the V shaped recovery.


----------



## Humid (11 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> But at the same time there was plenty of coverage for Wayne Swann, the World's greatest treasurer, so Labor had good and bad press which is normal.
> ATM there is no press, that's the problem, I'm not sure the small target strategy is best in the current climate, most people are home in Aust so a lot of media is being watched or read.
> Normally people are too busy working, travelling etc, then the small target works. Currently?
> My guess is a snap election in Oct, the Government will use the growing economy the lack of covid and a requirement for certainty to keep the ball rolling.
> ...



And the figures??


----------



## sptrawler (11 May 2021)

Humid said:


> And the figures??



Well the ASX hit a record high yesterday, so that will show up in the end of year superannuation statements people receive.
Personal savings has gone up $130billion since the pandemic started.
House prices have jumped, due to State and Federal incentives.
Unemployment is less than pre covid numbers.

What figures do you want?


----------



## Humid (11 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Well the ASX hit a record high yesterday, so that will show up in the end of year superannuation statements people receive.
> Personal savings has gone up $130billion since the pandemic started.
> House prices have jumped, due to State and Federal incentives.
> Unemployment is less than pre covid numbers.
> ...



So what ya saying is youre too old to let debt bother you considering its what these clowns campaigned on forever
back in black my ass


----------



## sptrawler (11 May 2021)

Humid said:


> So what ya saying is youre too old to let debt bother you considering its what these clowns campaigned on forever
> back in black my ass



Well I suppose that is one campaign strategy.


----------



## PZ99 (11 May 2021)

I think the biggest problem for the Govt will be China. So can't see an early election happening.

If they don't fix it quick people might conclude (correctly or not) a change of Govt is the only way out.


----------



## sptrawler (11 May 2021)

PZ99 said:


> I think the biggest problem for the Govt will be China. So can't see an early election happening.
> 
> If they don't fix it quick people might conclude (correctly or not) a change of Govt is the only way out.



Good point PZ99


----------



## Humid (11 May 2021)

PZ99 said:


> I think the biggest problem for the Govt will be China. So can't see an early election happening.
> 
> If they don't fix it quick people might conclude (correctly or not) a change of Govt is the only way out.



The trouble is media not picking things up.....remember the vaccines war footing


----------



## IFocus (11 May 2021)

Did some one say Murdoch? Alan Kohler really puts the boot in.

Alan Kohler: Scott Morrison, the Murdochs and the crime of the century​
"It’s not entirely Scott Morrison’s fault that he managed to look like a dissembling idiot at President Joe Biden’s leader’s summit on climate change last week.

He probably hasn’t read a word of the science about global warming and the grim future that awaits his children and grandchildren."









						Alan Kohler: Scott Morrison, the Murdochs and the crime of the century
					

For Scott Morrison, last week’s Zoom summit was a chance to try out some new fudge. But it didn’t go well and he wound up looking like an inept spinner.




					thenewdaily.com.au


----------



## SirRumpole (11 May 2021)

All very well spending when money is cheap but there is no plan for paying it all back at some point in time , apart from relying on the iron ore price.

Companies that were propped up with Jobseeker/keeper need to give some back, and it's about time we had an export tax on resources.

Otherwise, can anyone say where the money is coming from to repay the debt, or is national debt just a figure without any meaningful consequence if it's not repaid ?


----------



## Smurf1976 (12 May 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Otherwise, can anyone say where the money is coming from to repay the debt, or is national debt just a figure without any meaningful consequence if it's not repaid ?



I see it as more evidence that governments are preparing for a major inflationary event.

Either that or there's going to be a hell of a problem for the other side of politics sometime down the track when they're elected to fix it.


----------



## PZ99 (12 May 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> All very well spending when money is cheap but there is no plan for paying it all back at some point in time , apart from relying on the iron ore price.
> 
> Companies that were propped up with Jobseeker/keeper need to give some back, and it's about time we had an export tax on resources.
> 
> Otherwise, can anyone say where the money is coming from to repay the debt, or is national debt just a figure without any meaningful consequence if it's not repaid ?



Easy... give you a vaccine that kills you and then nick your super


----------



## Humid (12 May 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> All very well spending when money is cheap but there is no plan for paying it all back at some point in time , apart from relying on the iron ore price.
> 
> Companies that were propped up with Jobseeker/keeper need to give some back, and it's about time we had an export tax on resources.
> 
> Otherwise, can anyone say where the money is coming from to repay the debt, or is national debt just a figure without any meaningful consequence if it's not repaid ?



***k the country this is about staying in power


----------



## sptrawler (12 May 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> All very well spending when money is cheap but there is no plan for paying it all back at some point in time , apart from relying on the iron ore price.
> 
> Companies that were propped up with Jobseeker/keeper need to give some back, and it's about time we had an export tax on resources.
> 
> Otherwise, can anyone say where the money is coming from to repay the debt, or is national debt just a figure without any meaningful consequence if it's not repaid ?



What is interesting is the 180 degree change in position by both parties, after the GFC Labor were adamant that the splash of cash was needed and the Coalition were saying it was irresponsible.
Now we have the complete reversal, just shows how little there is between them these days, as Humid says it is all about staying in the driver's seat.
Same as the budget, it is a social budget, very much like a budget Labor would put out, politics has gone very weird.
The line between left and right is becoming very close IMO, so a lot comes down to who can BS the best and resonate with the electorate.


----------



## rederob (12 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> What is interesting is the 180 degree change in position by both parties, after the GFC Labor were adamant that the splash of cash was needed and the Coalition were saying it was irresponsible.
> Now we have the complete reversal, just shows how little there is between them these days, as Humid says it is all about staying in the driver's seat.
> Same as the budget, it is a social budget, very much like a budget Labor would put out, politics has gone very weird.
> The line between left and right is becoming very close IMO, so a lot comes down to who can BS the best and resonate with the electorate.



Labor kept Australia out of recession during the GFC.
Morrison missed the boat last year on big spending to create jobs *WHEN *it was needed.  We no longer need big spending, and job creation will occur without stimulus so long as covid lockdowns don't wreck us.
What we now clearly have is a government heavily invested in the lie they perpetuated about being "responsible money managers".


----------



## sptrawler (12 May 2021)

rederob said:


> Labor kept Australia out of recession during the GFC.
> Morrison missed the boat last year on big spending to create jobs *WHEN *it was needed.  We no longer need big spending, and job creation will occur without stimulus so long as covid lockdowns don't wreck us.
> What we now clearly have is a government heavily invested in the lie they perpetuated about being "responsible money managers".



I guess we will have to wait until the election, to see how most Australians read it.


----------



## rederob (12 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I guess we will have to wait until the election, to see how most Australians read it.



That's very different to the point you made!


----------



## IFocus (12 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> What is interesting is the 180 degree change in position by both parties, after the GFC Labor were adamant that the splash of cash was needed and the Coalition were saying it was irresponsible.
> Now we have the complete reversal, just shows how little there is between them these days, as Humid says it is all about staying in the driver's seat.
> Same as the budget, it is a social budget, very much like a budget Labor would put out, politics has gone very weird.
> The line between left and right is becoming very close IMO, so a lot comes down to who can BS the best and resonate with the electorate.





Strikes me as desperation and buying an election.

Certainly much of the budget is Labor policy but much is catch-up from previous LNP failures.

LNP are still anti middleclass lower income pro corporations simple test penalty rates and tax breaks for the wealthy.

With no mining tax on the horizon (like oil and gas) the debt will require plenty of luck to be repaid.


----------



## sptrawler (12 May 2021)

rederob said:


> That's very different to the point you made!



Why is that, I said there is very little to differentiate between them, so the way the public view the budget should have little effect on the election. Personalities will probably decide the outcome, yet again IMO.


----------



## sptrawler (12 May 2021)

IFocus said:


> Strikes me as desperation and buying an election.
> 
> Certainly much of the budget is Labor policy but much is catch-up from previous LNP failures.
> 
> ...



I would agree with you, but in recent years Labor have alienated the middle class and lower income voters ( increase pension age, remove franking credits to low income earners, decrying middle class welfare e.g childcare etc), so they somehow have to gain their trust back.
Both parties are struggling with the middle class voter, as they are the major tax base who pays for it all.


----------



## SirRumpole (12 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I would agree with you, but in recent years Labor have alienated the middle class and lower income voters ( increase pension age, remove franking credits to low income earners, decrying middle class welfare e.g childcare etc), so they somehow have to gain their trust back.
> Both parties are struggling with the middle class voter, as they are the major tax base who pays for it all.




Personally I don't have a problem with taxpayers money going to people who need it, but the big spending items like aged care , NDIS , child care ,mental health etc are recurrent expenditure and you have to increase revenue to pay for them or go into debt. ScoMo and Friedburger have shown no inclination at all to increase revenue, so it's all basically debt that someone else has to repay.

So I'd have to say it's a pretty cynical election budget, and if they get back cuts or tax increases will inevitably have to be made.


----------



## sptrawler (12 May 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Personally I don't have a problem with taxpayers money going to people who need it, but the big spending items like aged care , NDIS , child care ,mental health etc are recurrent expenditure and you have to increase revenue to pay for them or go into debt. ScoMo and Friedburger have shown no inclination at all to increase revenue, so it's all basically debt that someone else has to repay.
> 
> So I'd have to say it's a pretty cynical election budget, and if they get back cuts or tax increases will inevitably have to be made.



As has been said on the forum many many times, they are obviously going to inflate the problem away, the tax rates have been on a downward trajectory for 40 years.
So the obvious way to reduce debt, if you are not going to increase direct tax, is to bring about inflation which increases indirect tax and bracket creep.
Keeping the borders closed for another 12 months, will mean all this splash of cash will end up in our economy, so my guess is the Government will get a lot of it back.
The thing us who don't work have to be careful of, is the buying power of your savings will diminish, so the percentage of savings allocated to growth has to be monitored IMO.
I would be very surprised if inflation doesn't take off in the next two years, by taking off I mean it is starting from a low point, so any movement is a takeoff. 😂 
Just my opinion.


----------



## Humid (12 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I would agree with you, but in recent years Labor have alienated the middle class and lower income voters ( increase pension age, remove franking credits to low income earners, decrying middle class welfare e.g childcare etc), so they somehow have to gain their trust back.
> Both parties are struggling with the middle class voter, as they are the major tax base who pays for it all.











						Scott Morrison scraps plans to raise pension age to 70
					

The Federal Government dumps a plan to make people wait until they turn 70 to be eligible for the aged pension.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## Humid (12 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> What is interesting is the 180 degree change in position by both parties, after the GFC Labor were adamant that the splash of cash was needed and the Coalition were saying it was irresponsible.
> Now we have the complete reversal, just shows how little there is between them these days, as Humid says it is all about staying in the driver's seat.
> Same as the budget, it is a social budget, very much like a budget Labor would put out, politics has gone very weird.
> The line between left and right is becoming very close IMO, so a lot comes down to who can BS the best and resonate with the electorate.



Complete reversal .....you sound like the media you read
Have a look at the bloody figures in the last 7 years
Its nothing like labor spending get a ****ing grip


----------



## sptrawler (12 May 2021)

Humid said:


> Complete reversal .....you sound like the media you read
> Have a look at the bloody figures in the last 7 years
> Its nothing like labor spending get a ****ing grip



I guess a bit of reflection on your part wouldn't hurt, oh I forgot you are one of the wealthy ones and before you say that it is Murdoch BS the post is from the Guardian. 😂
Don't shoot the messenger.









						Winning the wealthy and losing the workers: how Labor's Victorian vote transformed
					

Results from Australia’s most progressive state show the party is at risk of losing its heartland




					www.theguardian.com
				



From the article:
“We have a problem with lower socio-economic voters.” That was the assessment of a senior Victorian Labor party source, who declined to be named, as he explained the lessons of the federal election from the most progressive state in the country.

And from a source you like to quote:








						Can wealthy voters save Albanese and Labor?
					

Mapping electorates by wealth gives us a fascinating picture of who voted against Labor and what that means for the next election.




					www.crikey.com.au
				



From the article:
However, the most interesting analysis appears to be occurring within the newly minted Labor leadership. In his opening address as opposition leader Anthony Albanese has signalled a pitch to wealthy voters, saying that the party has to “articulate a vision for how we increase wealth and not just share wealth”. It appears from this statement that Albanese believes that part of the reason Labor lost is that wealthy voters found their previous platform unappealing.

If we map the primary vote results against a number of key factors, a very different picture begins to emerge, and it has important ramifications for the next election.

Beginning with the wealthy, I decided to map the results against the top 20 wealthiest electorates, from highest to lowest, according to median house prices.







If anything, it seems that Labour’s message was marginally well received, or at least benign, in the wealthy electorates. On average, Labor received a swing of 1.54% towards them while the wealthy swung away from the LNP by 2.24%. The Coalition only managed to gain at the expense of Labor in four of the 20 seats, in Reid, Mackellar, Cook and Mitchell. Arguably, Labor’s platform, message and leadership didn’t scare off voters in these affluent areas.


----------



## rederob (12 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Why is that, I said there is very little to differentiate between them, so the way the public view the budget should have little effect on the election. Personalities will probably decide the outcome, yet again IMO.



Morrison failed to *stimulate *the economy last year when it was needed.
He paid companies to *not* have employees productive.
He's now big spending when it's no longer necessary.
Labor did the opposite vis a vis the GFC so *there is a gulf between them*.


----------



## sptrawler (12 May 2021)

rederob said:


> Morrison failed to *stimulate *the economy last year when it was needed.
> He paid companies to *not* have employees productive.
> He's now big spending when it's no longer necessary.
> Labor did the opposite vis a vis the GFC so *there is a gulf between them*.



You're never going to sell that Rob, most people perceive last year as being locked up indoors, so stimulating an economy when everyone is indoors is difficult, they will perceive the government looked after the people last year.
The GFC was an overseas banking issue, revolving around the E.U banks buying consolidated debt obligations, which were full of crap U.S mortgages.
Labor ran with it, when it really had minimal effect on Australia, so people aren't going to think you are comparing apples with apples, but hey you carry on it is always a good read.


----------



## rederob (12 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> You're never going to sell that Rob, most people perceive last year as being locked up indoors, so stimulating an economy when everyone is indoors is difficult, they will perceive the government looked after the people last year.
> The GFC was an overseas banking issue, revolving around the E.U banks buying consolidated debt obligations, which were full of crap U.S mortgages.
> Labor ran with it, when it really had minimal effect on Australia, so people aren't going to think you are comparing apples with apples, but hey you carry on it is always a good read.



I don't really care what people think.
From a policy perspective Morrison's effort was a *FAIL*.
Infrastructure and construction activities were significantly unaffected by pandemic issues last year and could have had billions poured in. Investing in decent quarantining facilities across Australia would have been a practical measure, and here we are well over a year later and zip has been done.  Nothing was done to remedy social housing needs either.
Fast tracking a shift to renewables was another option and revitalising our grid to accommodate the shift was also in play.  But Morrison is a policy free zone.
I though McMahon was our worst ever PM, but I reckon Morrison has taken his mantle by totally screwing our relationship with China, and now wanting to double down.
I don't buy the "popularity" contest idea for determining election outcomes.  Elections are never cut and dry, as a betting agency discovered in 2018.  As I see it, they are decided at the margins, and factors that swing a seat one way in Victoria can swing it opposite in Queensland (and did in 2018).


----------



## sptrawler (12 May 2021)

rederob said:


> Morrison failed to *stimulate *the economy last year when it was needed.
> He paid companies to *not* have employees productive.
> He's now big spending when it's no longer necessary.
> Labor did the opposite vis a vis the GFC so *there is a gulf between them*.





rederob said:


> I don't really care what people think.
> From a policy perspective Morrison's effort was a *FAIL*.
> Infrastructure and construction activities were significantly unaffected by pandemic issues last year and could have had billions poured in. Investing in decent quarantining facilities across Australia would have been a practical measure, and here we are well over a year later and zip has been done.  Nothing was done to remedy social housing needs either.
> Fast tracking a shift to renewables was another option and revitalising our grid to accommodate the shift was also in play.  But Morrison is a policy free zone.
> ...



Your posts have a very Liberal flavour about them Rob, "He paid companies to *not *have employees productive", well I know a travel agent who employed three people managed to keep them on and get all the deposits etc back to people who had forward booked.
She has now reconfigured her business to local personalised tours and the three employees have found other work, without jobkeeper it would have been a disaster for her she would have had to claim bankruptcy.
My brother in law runs a small glazing business and it saved him and his two workers, the work has picked up in the last six months with the building stimulus.
As you say there is a big gulf between what happened last year and the GFC, the GFC was build a few school halls, stuff up putting in pink batts and send out a $900 cheque to welfare recipients, after that everyone go and get stuffed. Then it took 10 years for the ASX to get back to where it was when the GFC hit.
Now within 15months we are at an all time high and unemployment is already back to pre covid levels.
So yes Rob there is a lot of difference and hopefully Labor never go back to the Rudd, Gillard, Shorten attention seeking days, it impressed the wealthy but didn't do much for those who were thrown on the  unemployment queue back then.
I'm sure Shortens Labor hacks will have the knife ready for Albo, if he fails to win office, then it will be back to normal for Labor IMO.
As for not caring what people think, I find that is often the case with people who wear compassion as a badge of honour, until they are required to show some.


----------



## rederob (12 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Your posts have a very Liberal flavour about them Rob, "He paid companies to *not *have employees productive", well I know a travel agent who employed three people managed to keep them on and get all the deposits etc back to people who had forward booked.



If that business could not have handled that activity without Jobseeker they should not have been in it.


sptrawler said:


> My brother in law runs a small glazing business and it saved him and his two workers, the work has picked up in the last six months with the building stimulus.



I made the point about stimulating construction - Jobkeeper was not necessary.


sptrawler said:


> As you say there is a big gulf between what happened last year and the GFC, the GFC was build a few school halls, stuff up putting in pink batts and send out a $900 cheque to welfare recipients, after that everyone go and get stuffed.* NOPE*



You could try to get your facts straight about GFC measures:

It involved expenditure of $10.4 billion through cash payments, a boost to the First Home Owners grant (via state/territory governments) and further investment through the Nation Building Funds;
a $15.2 billion jointly funded package was announced in November 2008 by the Council of Australian Governments (COAG) which included measures to address housing, hospitals, and education;
a further $4.7 billion through the Nation Building Plan was announced in December 2008 which included investment in road, rail, and the higher education sector;
the $2.8 billion Homeowner Insulation Program (HIP) was part of the $3.9 billion Energy Efficient Homes Package (EEHP) announced on 3 February 2009;
COAG endorsed the Nation Building Economic Stimulus Plan (NBESP)  included the Nation Building and Jobs Plan (NBJP) involving expenditure of approximately $42 billion. The NBJP included the Building the Education Revolution (BER) Program, involving $14.6 billion for major and minor school infrastructure projects with $12.4 billion of this for Primary Schools for the 21st Century (P21). It also included a Social Housing package with $6.4 billion announced largely for the construction of new housing units;
$8.5 billion for investment in road, rail, and port infrastructure, an initial investment of $4.7 billion in the National Broadband Network, $3.6 billion for development of clean energy technologies, and $5.8 billion for investments in the health, tertiary education, and research sectors were announced in the May 2009 Budget.
It's true that some dodgy operators did not properly train workers to install insulation, but that was actually a State building code responsibility which Murdoch's media beat up and turned into a federal problem.  Hundreds more people have died as a result of Morrison's ineptitude in regard to ensuring the federal responsibility for quarantine arrangements were properly carried out.

As I said, there was a gulf between Morrison's covid largesse and Labor's GFC stimulus packages.



sptrawler said:


> As for not caring what people think, I find that is often the case with people who wear compassion as a badge of honour, until they are required to show some.




Thinking and caring are different matters.  I care about ensuring policies are fit for purpose, and that requires thinking them through.


----------



## sptrawler (12 May 2021)

You sound like you should be voting Liberal Rob, maybe if Abbott was still there you would, he didn't have any time for leaners either. 
If any PM was inept it was Rudd, as he is still showing and the very reason Labor have been in the wilderness for so long. He made the PM's office look like a sideshow in a circus. 😂
At last the grass roots seem to be taking Labor back to its roots and the wallies that took over Labor, are getting the heave ho. 
Only about 4 or 5 to go, wretched ghosts, oh I forgot the number one wretched ghost is sitting alongside his mate Kev waiting for Bill to join them.


----------



## SirRumpole (12 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> As has been said on the forum many many times, they are obviously going to inflate the problem away, the tax rates have been on a downward trajectory for 40 years.
> So the obvious way to reduce debt, if you are not going to increase direct tax, is to bring about inflation which increases indirect tax and bracket creep.
> Keeping the borders closed for another 12 months, will mean all this splash of cash will end up in our economy, so my guess is the Government will get a lot of it back.
> The thing us who don't work have to be careful of, is the buying power of your savings will diminish, so the percentage of savings allocated to growth has to be monitored IMO.
> ...




If the LNP really think that inflation and bracket creep is going to pay off $1 T debt, then they should release some data about what level of inflation they want and how long it's going to take.

It's all pie in the sky afaic , and in the immortal words of a certain film, "tell him he's dreaming" .


----------



## SirRumpole (12 May 2021)

Has anyone else detected an amount of friction between the Speaker and PM in Question Time recently ?


----------



## PZ99 (12 May 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Has anyone else detected an amount of friction between the Speaker and PM in Question Time recently ?



Fairest and most competent speaker I've ever seen. Should be PM


----------



## SirRumpole (12 May 2021)

PZ99 said:


> Fairest and most competent speaker I've ever seen. Should be PM




Could do a lot worse, even though he was a member of the IPA.

Young and deluded perhaps.


----------



## IFocus (12 May 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Has anyone else detected an amount of friction between the Speaker and PM in Question Time recently ?





Yes, as speakers go he is very fair some thing most governments hate particularly LNP governments.


----------



## PZ99 (12 May 2021)

This budget to gain inflation = higher interest rates... on a trillion $ debt. Scares the crap out of me.

Commodities repaired the budget last time... but we are rapidly running out of customers.


----------



## basilio (11 June 2021)

Lest we Forget. The legacy of Christian Porter as Minister  and the Scomo governments  determined defense of Robo Debt over many years.

The $112m referred to is the interest on the monies repaid. The full figure is at least $1.76B.

Court approves robodebt $112 million settlement payments                                                                  
	

		
			
		

		
	



*Luke Henriques-Gomes                           *​*The federal court has approved a $112 million settlement between the Commonwealth and the victims of the Coalition’s robodebt scheme after what a judge called a “shameful chapter” in public administration.*​*Handing down his judgment on Friday, Justice Bernard Murphy criticised the federal government for a “massive failure”, saying the court had heard “heartwrenching” stories of pain and anguish from victims of the Centrelink debt recovery scheme.*​*Under the robodebt scheme, which ran between 2015 and November 2019, the federal government unlawfully raised $1.76bn in debts against 443,000 people, the court was told.*​*Murphy said the government had pursued around 381,000 people, unlawfully recovering $751m, including through “private debt collectors”, and the court heard one mother link her son’s suicide to the debt recovery program.*​​*Murphy said:*​​*The proceeding has exposed a shameful chapter in the administration of the Commonwealth social security system and a massive failure of public administration.*​​*Murphy said it should have been “obvious” to the senior public servants who designed the scheme that the income averaging method was “unreliable”.*​​*








						Coronavirus Australia live: woman’s body found in Victoria flood waters; Four Corners QAnon episode to air Monday
					

Follow updates live




					www.theguardian.com
				



*​​


----------



## basilio (11 June 2021)

A clearer explanation of the Federal Judges assessment of the Robo debt debacle.

In my view the most contemptible part of the whole process was the relentless refusal of the Minister in charge (Christian Porter)  and the Federal Government as a whole to quickly realise this was both practically wrong and an illegal action. It would not be hard to pull up the years of dispute around this piece of merde. But it does destroy the credibility of all the participants.









						Robodebt condemned as a 'shameful chapter' in withering assessment by federal court judge
					

Federal Court Justice Bernard Murphy delivers a scathing assessment of the unlawful Robodebt recovery scheme, calling it a "massive failure in public administration" of Australia's social security scheme.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## basilio (11 June 2021)

I wonder if there will ever be any investigation into the legalities of Cabinet Ministers benefiting from government grants ?
Perhaps a start could be made with Angus Taylor.   Consider
_
From the time Angus Taylor entered parliament in September 2013, companies & organisations the Taylor family have managed, directed or are directly associated with have benefited from over $93,515,673 in federal & state government funds._

Check it out. An exceptionally detailed account of who got the bucks, how and what for.





__





						The Luck Of The Taylors | Dingo News
					

From Twitter with @jommy_tee #grassgate #watergate #auspol #grantgate With all the recent talk of Angus Taylor and his brother Richard and the alleged poisoning of native vegetation, (charges withdrawn) it’s easy to suspect the Taylor family are being victimised. After all, they are viewed by...




					dingo.news


----------



## basilio (11 June 2021)

Just picking over the scummy behaviours of Christian Porter as Security Minister and AG in dealing with Robo Debt and subsequent legal actions.









						Christian Porter defiant on Centrelink's 'robodebt' flaws: 'This is not a matter for apology'
					

Social services minister says debt recovery system criticised in Senate inquiry is tackling ‘a massive amount of overpayments’ to claimants




					www.theguardian.com
				












						In Christian Porter's world, party mates override process or merit
					

The attorney-general calls the shots on admissions to the Administrative Appeals Tribunal — and party hacks are the big winners.




					www.crikey.com.au
				











						How Christian Porter gutted the the AAT's robodebt team - Eminetra Australia
					

Experts were fired and the Liberal Party was given a gig and hacked. But where is the anger from the public and political experts? Attorney General Christian Porter (Image: AAP / Lucas Schoch) This is the second in a two-part series. Read Part 1 here. When Attorney General Christian Porter...




					eminetra.com.au
				












						Government to repay 470,000 unlawful robodebts in what might be Australia's biggest-ever financial backdown
					

The government will repay interest and collection fees. What it hasn’t agreed to, yet, is the payment of damages.




					theconversation.com


----------



## rederob (11 June 2021)

basilio said:


> A clearer explanation of the Federal Judges assessment of the Robo debt debacle.
> 
> In my view the most contemptible part of the whole process was the relentless refusal of the Minister in charge (Christian Porter)  and the Federal Government as a whole to quickly realise this was both practically wrong and an illegal action. It would not be hard to pull up the years of dispute around this piece of merde. But it does destroy the credibility of all the participants.
> 
> ...



Morrison's government has never had a moral compass.  
The Biloela case show continues to show their true colours.


----------



## sptrawler (11 June 2021)

basilio said:


> Just picking over the scummy behaviours of Christian Porter as Security Minister and AG in dealing with Robo Debt and subsequent legal actions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I wonder if I can apply to get my $6k back?


----------



## basilio (11 June 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I wonder if I can apply to get my $6k back?




Perhaps. ?. Maybe worth checking out  ? 
Must have been a xhit time dealing with it.  No surprise that many, many people sent a letter of demand  for alleged overpayments many years old and no way to prove otherwise went into despair and desperation. Would be particularly teh case if they diudn't have some strong family support


----------



## Humid (11 June 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I wonder if I can apply to get my $6k back?



You can.......in franking credits


----------



## sptrawler (11 June 2021)

Humid said:


> You can.......in franking credits



Didnt get them last year, because I didnt get dividends, cant wait till your in the same boat.lol
The good thing with you Humid, you make it easy to understand why Labor are loosing their grass roots supporters.


----------



## sptrawler (11 June 2021)

basilio said:


> Perhaps. ?. Maybe worth checking out  ?
> Must have been a xhit time dealing with it.  No surprise that many, many people sent a letter of demand  for alleged overpayments many years old and no way to prove otherwise went into despair and desperation. Would be particularly teh case if they diudn't have some strong family support



Yes, the deaf daughter got pinged, didnt even know what she had done wrong.


----------



## Humid (11 June 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Didnt get them last year, because I didnt get dividends, cant wait till your in the same boat.lol
> The good thing with you Humid, you make it easy to understand why Labor are loosing their grass roots supporters.



Shorten went after retirees and your mob went after people even more vulnerable.
Rule of law springs to mind considering the alleged anal rapist was AG at the time.
Laws for people with money and laws for others


----------



## Humid (11 June 2021)

Court orders Christian Porter and lawyer Sue Chrysanthou to pay substantial legal costs of Jo Dyer
					

Costs running to hundreds of thousands of dollars must be paid to the friend of the late woman who accused the former attorney general of raping her – a claim he denies




					www.theguardian.com
				




what a legal mind no wonder he was the AG


----------



## Humid (11 June 2021)

Christian Porter made two offers to settle ABC defamation case that cost broadcaster $780,000, senators told
					

ABC boss tells hearing he rejects Porter’s claim broadcaster had backed down and been ‘humiliated’




					www.theguardian.com
				




Wanted to settle 9 days after filing


----------



## IFocus (11 June 2021)

rederob said:


> Morrison's government has never had a moral compass.
> The Biloela case show continues to show their true colours.





Yes was thinking just today a government that locks up a mother, father and their two daughters (absolute no risk to the community) for 3 years while their case goes through the courts.

If they do that so readily its a very small step to do the same to us?

But there is the secret court case and then there is the whistle blower.... oh they already are.


----------



## sptrawler (11 June 2021)

Yes it all smells, like W.A inc. Those politicians ended up in jail too. Remember the ones lining the wealthy business peoples pockets, Laurie Connel comes to mind.lol
Oh how short our memories are.lol


Humid said:


> Shorten went after retirees and your mob went after people even more vulnerable.
> Rule of law springs to mind considering the alleged anal rapist was AG at the time.
> Laws for people with money and laws for others


----------



## Humid (12 June 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Yes it all smells, like W.A inc. Those politicians ended up in jail too. Remember the ones lining the wealthy business peoples pockets, Laurie Connel comes to mind.lol
> Oh how short our memories are.lol



Smells like too much red wine
wtf are you on about?


----------



## basilio (12 June 2021)

Totally sums up the modus operandi of the Scumo government.  Check out the rest of the list.
As usual Priceless.

* ‘How To Look Busy While Doing Absolutely xuck All’, By Scott Morrison * 








One of the things I’ve learned since being in the top job is that Aussies love a do-er. Someone who rolls their sleeves up, gets their hands dirty and chips in to get the job done.

Sounds like a lot of hard work if you ask me.                                                                                

Much better to just give the impression you’re working and get paid half a mil a year to do sweet FA. Here are a few tips I asked my secretary to type up.  

*Go overboard on photo opps*

Nothing says ‘busy’ like a professionally-styled photograph of a 55 year-old man doing barre at a meat processing plant.

If you think you’ve done too many cheesy photo shoots of yourself playing rugby on an 8-metre earth mover or hammering a nail into a F-15 fighter jet, then you haven’t done nearly enough. Aim for at least five a day – if you miss a day people will start to question why you haven’t built a quarantine facility even though you’ve had 16 months.

*Put on a hard hat*

There isn’t a single situation that can’t be made to look like you’re a dedicated, untiring workhorse with a florescent yellow hard hat.  

Signing a document you haven’t read? Put on a hard hat. Heading off on holidays again? Hard hat. Denying you knew anything about a rape that took place 50 metres from your office. Definitely hard hat.

*Make an announcement*









						‘How To Look Busy While Doing Absolutely Fuck All’, By Scott Morrison
					

"If you think you’ve done too many cheesy photo shoots of you doing barre in a meatworks factory, you haven't done nearly enough"




					www.theshovel.com.au


----------



## Humid (12 June 2021)

IFocus said:


> Yes was thinking just today a government that locks up a mother, father and their two daughters (absolute no risk to the community) for 3 years while their case goes through the courts.
> 
> If they do that so readily its a very small step to do the same to us?
> 
> But there is the secret court case and then there is the whistle blower.... oh they already are.



They always say we're 10 years beind the US!
Imagine being that without a bill of rights


----------



## sptrawler (13 June 2021)

Humid said:


> You can.......in franking credits



Hopefully, if you fifo guy's can stop raping the girls at the camps, it is hard to get franking credits when the companies have to spend money to protect the women.  








						BHP reveal $300m security spend after rape claim
					

BHP will roll out a personal safety app for fly-in, fly-out workers — including staff at Mulla Mulla Village, where a woman was allegedly raped last year — as part of a $300 million security spend.




					thewest.com.au


----------



## Humid (13 June 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Hopefully, if you fifo guy's can stop raping the girls at the camps, it is hard to get franking credits when the companies have to spend money to protect the women.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lets hope this app works unlike the feds last effort
What did that cost us homer?


----------



## sptrawler (13 June 2021)

Humid said:


> Lets hope this app works unlike the feds last effort
> What did that cost us homer?



I wouldn't know, you are the one who keeps tabs on what people get or don't get, you should know.


----------



## Humid (13 June 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I wouldn't know, you are the one who keeps tabs on what people get or don't get, you should know.











						COVIDSafe app: The $8 million ticket to the pub that has barely been used
					

The cost of Australia's COVIDSafe app has blown out to more than $8 million, and continues to cost taxpayers tens of thousands every month.



					thenewdaily.com.au
				




I know you're not interested because of rust but not hearing much noise about robodebt compared to pink batts either


----------



## sptrawler (13 June 2021)

Humid said:


> COVIDSafe app: The $8 million ticket to the pub that has barely been used
> 
> 
> The cost of Australia's COVIDSafe app has blown out to more than $8 million, and continues to cost taxpayers tens of thousands every month.
> ...



With the Covid app, I use the W.A one, it seems strange to have a Federal one, I wonder if anyone would use it? Probably a bit like robodebt, it seemed like a good idea at the time. 🤣 
Yes just have to move on to the next disaster, apparently inflation in the U.S has hit 5%, so that will be the next media target interest rates on the move.
If they go up, that will really cause the Morrison government some worries, hit peoples hip pocket and there is always a backlash.


----------



## IFocus (13 June 2021)

The aggressive chest beating and banging the war drum by Morrison for popularity in what may be an election year against China is particularly worrying.

I actually don't think Howard would have gone that far to antagonize a sensitive  super power who just happens to be our biggest customer.

The Singapore PM stated the obvious but Morrison wont be listening.


----------



## rederob (13 June 2021)

sptrawler said:


> With the Covid app, I use the W.A one, it seems strange to have a Federal one, I wonder if anyone would use it? Probably a bit like robodebt, it seemed like a good idea at the time. 🤣



Do you mean a *WA-specific QR code*?
A federal QR code would allow cross border instances to be tracked instantly via your personal contact details.
The recent case of the Victorians who tested positive in Queensland took 2 days to notify us of their visited locations, and I doubt the public think that's  good enough!


----------



## sptrawler (13 June 2021)

rederob said:


> Do you mean a *WA-specific QR code*?
> A federal QR code would allow cross border instances to be tracked instantly via your personal contact details.
> The recent case of the Victorians who tested positive in Queensland took 2 days to notify us of their visited locations, and I doubt the public think that's  good enough!



I just down loaded the app that was being advertised on T.V, haven't been out of the State for a year and a half, the QR code on the one I downloaded pings when I scan into Bunnings or the pub, so all is good as long as you Eastern States yuppies stay over there.


----------



## sptrawler (13 June 2021)

IFocus said:


> The aggressive chest beating and banging the war drum by Morrison for popularity in what may be an election year against China is particularly worrying.
> 
> I actually don't think Howard would have gone that far to antagonize a sensitive  super power who just happens to be our biggest customer.
> 
> The Singapore PM stated the obvious but Morrison wont be listening.



Interesting I tipped a while back, that an early election in late OCT may be on the cards, makes perfect sense, from Morrison's point, I still think Albo needs to get a move on to get some policy traction.
Hopefully they will crank it up soon.
With Singapore, they have to be everyone's friend, small island trade hub, financial hub, sod all resources.
It will be interesting to see if the U.S and U.K start to crank up its steel production again.


----------



## sptrawler (13 June 2021)

Trade agreement with the U.K, in the pipeline.








						Australia waiting for ‘the right deal’ with Britain, says Scott Morrison
					

Scott Morrison and Boris Johnson will thrash out the final terms over a lavish dinner at Downing Street.




					www.theage.com.au
				



From the article:
*Carbis Bay: *Prime Minister Scott Morrison says Australia won’t sign a rushed trade agreement with Boris Johnson unless it’s “the right deal”, as both leaders prepare to thrash out the final terms over a lavish Downing Street dinner.

The new post-Brexit economic pact is due to be settled this week during Morrison’s five-day tour of Britain but a dispute over tariffs and quotas for agricultural goods still needs to be resolved.
Wary of a backlash by British farmers, Whitehall trade negotiators want tariffs on Australian beef and lamb products phased out over 15 years - a proposal the Australian side is unlikely to accept.
Johnson’s cabinet is split between those who think a true free trade deal should sweep away all tariffs and quotas, and others who fear more Australian meat will harm British farmers and want caps on how much fresh food can be imported into the United Kingdom.
Australian Council of Trade Unions president Michele O’Neil said unions wanted to see economic modelling that proved an agreement would create good jobs in each country.

“We call on the governments to be transparent about the contents of this in-principle agreement, and immediately begin consultations with trade unions about the detail of the agreement,” she said.
Early modelling by the British government suggests the overall benefits would be relatively small, with the deal forecast to lift UK GDP by 0.02 per cent, or £500 million ($915 million).


----------



## PZ99 (14 June 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Yes just have to move on to the next disaster, *apparently inflation in the U.S has hit 5%,* so that will be the next media target interest rates on the move.
> If they go up, that will really cause the Morrison government some worries, hit peoples hip pocket and there is always a backlash.



Well... there goes all the conspiracy theories about alternative money systems.

For as long as inflation remains a hidden tax on the public we are stuck with what we've got.

Imagine walking into a high inflation environment with a trillion dollar debt...









						Sign Australia is heading for disaster
					

When US President Joe Biden defeated Donald Trump back in November, there was a swift consensus in the media and among pundits that the ‘Trump era’, defined by populism and rising frustration with the political class, was drawing to a close.




					www.news.com.au


----------



## sptrawler (15 June 2021)

Looks like the free trade agreement with the U.K is going to happen, what I liked was the standard recognition of qualifications professional qualifications.








						Scott Morrison and Boris Johnson strike Australia-Britain free trade deal over dinner
					

New free trade deal will pave the way for more Australians to live and work in Britain once international borders reopen.




					www.theage.com.au


----------



## Humid (15 June 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Looks like the free trade agreement with the U.K is going to happen, what I liked was the standard recognition of qualifications professional qualifications.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thinking of returning?


----------



## sptrawler (15 June 2021)

Humid said:


> Thinking of returning?



You have to be joking, Perth the best place in the world, why would you leave?


----------



## Humid (21 June 2021)

Your new deputy....


----------



## Craton (21 June 2021)

QAnon and Barney. Oh dear...


----------



## sptrawler (21 June 2021)

Humid said:


> Your new deputy....



Looks like he is waiting for his carer. 😂


----------



## basilio (21 June 2021)

Barnaby Joyce is back as National Party Leader.

How insanely priceless. Somehow (God knows how...) he expects the thousands of politically  active Country Party women who watched the debacle of his behaviour to women to simply roll over and  welcome him with open arms and open legs.

I think there will be some very serious campaigning against a National Party lead by Barnaby Joyce. The Independents will play merry hell.  It's not as if there hasn't been plenty of  similar successful campaigns to date.
Just what ScoMo needs









						Barnaby Joyce sexual harassment allegation: Catherine Marriott speaks out
					

The rural advocate says she never wanted the allegation to become public but complaint to National party was leaked within days




					www.theguardian.com
				












						Rural women say ‘astounding’ return of Barnaby Joyce proves Nationals ‘not listening’
					

Australian Women in Agriculture founding member says Joyce trapped in culture dominated by ‘power plays between the boys’




					www.theguardian.com
				












						'Anyone but Nats': Rural figures come out against Barnaby Joyce and Nationals
					

Prominent rural advocates increasingly vocal over potential return of Barnaby Joyce to Nationals leadership




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## wayneL (21 June 2021)

Jeez, if good sexual morality was a prerequisite for politics, we'd have almost no politicians... from any party.


----------



## SirRumpole (22 June 2021)

McCormack was no sharp knife, but the decision to go back to Barnaby was stupid in my opinion.

He's been notorious for accepting bribes (Gina Hancock's cheque) and for making other blunders.

His opposition to climate change action is out to step to what his own constituency (the Nation Farmers Federation) is committed to.

That the Nats wanted a change from McCormack is understandable, but why go to Barnaby instead of Littleproud or Fiona Simpson ?

The Nats really are in a mess.


----------



## Humid (22 June 2021)

wayneL said:


> Jeez, if good sexual morality was a prerequisite for politics, we'd have almost no politicians... from any party.



Who would be your new federal member of parliament be?


----------



## Humid (22 June 2021)

https://australiainstitute.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/open-letter-national-integrity-commission-WEB.pdf
		

A big broom and start fresh


----------



## wayneL (22 June 2021)

Humid said:


> Who would be your new federal member of parliament be?



I've got Steve Irons at present and to be honest know zilch about him. 

But would it be too much to ask for a nice classical liberal in the British sense? 





__





						Classical liberalism - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## Humid (22 June 2021)

wayneL said:


> I've got Steve Irons at present and to be honest know zilch about him.
> 
> But would it be too much to ask for a nice classical liberal in the British sense?
> 
> ...



Yes it would if he tows the party line


----------



## wayneL (22 June 2021)

Humid said:


> Yes it would if he tows the party line



Hence, why I am no longer a Liberal voter, Senate, or Reps.

I choose to vote for liberty... Or at least the closest facsimile thereof.

It ain't Liberal
It ain't Labor
It ain't the Nats
It ain't the Greens

Just not sure at this stage who it actually *IS*.


----------



## Humid (22 June 2021)

Pay the $20 fine and get hammered drunk
I would vote for an independant watchdog with teeth


----------



## basilio (25 June 2021)

There's a whisper going around.
The Liberals are looking for a  handsome, high publicity candidate with an outstanding military record to parachute into a safe seat.

Seems someone might be currently auditioning for the role..
*Ben Roberts-Smith Using Defamation Trial To Audition For Safe Liberal Party Seat    * 







In explosive new allegations today, it has emerged that former SAS solider Ben Roberts-Smith is actually using his defamation proceedings as a way to prove his credentials for a blue-ribbon Liberal Party seat.

A source within the Liberal Party said they were closely watching Roberts-Smith’s performance at the trial and were impressed by what they had seen.                                                                                

“He’s demonstrated that he knows how to bury dodgy information, he’s got a range of bizarre excuses about how his laptop was destroyed – the best we’ve seen since Daryl Maguire said he’d run over his iPad with a tractor, he has extreme confidence despite his mediocrity and there’s a whiff of sexual misconduct. He’ll be perfect,” the source said.

Others within the party were impressed by Mr Roberts-Smith’s admission that he had spied on his former partner without her consent. “I can see a role for him in Immigration or Foreign Affairs down the track for sure,” one party strategist said. “Although he has shown that he knows how to initiate defamation proceedings that then spectacularly backfire. So maybe Attorney General is more his calling”.









						Ben Roberts-Smith Using Defamation Trial To Audition For Safe Liberal Party Seat
					

“He’s demonstrated that he knows how to bury dodgy information, he’s got a range of bizarre excuses about how his laptop was destroyed - the best we've seen since Daryl Maguire said he'd run over his iPad with a tractor, and there’s a whiff of sexual misconduct. He’ll be perfect".




					www.theshovel.com.au


----------



## Caveman (26 June 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Interesting I tipped a while back, that an early election in late OCT may be on the cards, makes perfect sense, from Morrison's point, I still think Albo needs to get a move on to get some policy traction.
> Hopefully they will crank it up soon.
> With Singapore, they have to be everyone's friend, small island trade hub, financial hub, sod all resources.
> It will be interesting to see if the U.S and U.K start to crank up its steel production again.



Just interested Sptrawler when did you decide to swap from unions/labor to Liberals/conservatives.


----------



## sptrawler (26 June 2021)

Caveman said:


> Just interested Sptrawler when did you decide to swap from unions/labor to Liberals/conservatives.



I didn't swap as such, more a pragmatic decision, to vote for who I think will improve the situation for middle Australia.
I don't really care who is in office, more what they are putting forward as policy, I've lived and worked too long to believe that one side has my best intentions at heart.
But looking back over my working life, I guess the penny dropped when I was in my mid 40's, representing the guys at EBA discussions. 
It became obvious that the discussions were more about politics, than the guys, I eventually realised the guys do better when the union is against the government, rather than in bed with the government.
So now I'm retired I just judge both sides on the policy platform they present.


----------



## moXJO (26 June 2021)

Humid said:


> Pay the $20 fine and get hammered drunk
> I would vote for an independant watchdog with teeth



I drew a giant penis on mine and scomo got in.


----------



## macca (27 June 2021)

moXJO said:


> I drew a giant penis on mine and scomo got in.




If he won by one vote, would it be your fault ?..................just saying


----------



## wayneL (28 June 2021)

macca said:


> If he won by one vote, would it be your fault ?..................just saying



When you think about it, it coulda been a vote for any of the major candidates. We got Scomo, but equally coulda got Albo.

_Quelle horreur?_


----------



## macca (28 June 2021)

wayneL said:


> When you think about it, it coulda been a vote for any of the major candidates. We got Scomo, but equally coulda got Albo.
> 
> _Quelle horreur?_




It does not happen much but it does get very close in some seats in most elections.

If one large family all decided to vote the same way they could decide the government


----------



## PZ99 (28 June 2021)

People voted Liberal and got Labor lite..  ie borrowing money and giving it away, growth over austerity, resistance to border closures...

In turn Labor have started going Liberal lite ie... how-good-is-coal, how-bad-is-woke... all they need to do now is declare a budget emergency, block everything in the senate and put onions over unions and the process is complete.


----------



## Humid (28 June 2021)




----------



## wayneL (28 June 2021)

PZ99 said:


> People voted Liberal and got Mussolini lite..



...and WA voted Labor and got McStalin


----------



## moXJO (29 June 2021)

Humid said:


> View attachment 126739



NZ is surprisingly down there as well


----------



## Humid (29 June 2021)

And I give you our national leader clearing things up!


----------



## rederob (29 June 2021)

Humid said:


> View attachment 126767
> 
> And I give you our national leader clearing things up!



*"At no stage of that plan...."*
It was not a good plan last year, and the 20+ revisions since then have made marginal improvements almost entirely as a result of continuing pressure from the States.
Blind Freddy knows that it makes more sense putting $billions into protections at the border by funding proper quarantine facilities than into propping up businesses and jobseekers when things go pear shaped.  Howard Springs is a prime example of the type of facility needed and the controls necessary to be effective.  But it is at odds with the requirements it recently set for Queensland, so Morrison is just playing politics with our health!
The bottom line is that Morrison has one overarching plan, and that's to fudge his way to the next election and hope nobody remembers how ineffectual the federal government has been during this pandemic. 
Perhaps he can claim his big win was putting the nation into collective debt for the next 4 decades because he didn't understand that paying people to be unproductive made us worse off.


----------



## Knobby22 (29 June 2021)

wayneL said:


> ...and WA voted Labor and got McStalin



And Victoria got Dictator Dan and NSW got Gestapo Gladys. (this one is taking off) 
And SA Premier Steve Marshall is doing a partial lockdown without a case - call him Herr Marshall? Need a good one.
Meek Morrison?


----------



## wayneL (29 June 2021)

They are all totalitarian dreamers.

I would go with Herr Martial-Law...
Still thinking of something apt for the Puppet in Chief


Knobby22 said:


> And Victoria got Dictator Dan and NSW got Gestapo Gladys. (this one is taking off)
> And SA Premier Steve Marshall is doing a partial lockdown without a case - call him Herr Marshall? Need a good one.
> Meek Morrison?


----------



## moXJO (29 June 2021)

I understand how infectious this is, but we seem to be losing our minds over a handful of infections.


----------



## IFocus (29 June 2021)

NSW strip searches of unaccompanied children has to be up there for extreme authoritarian behaviour.

As for McGowan not much day light between him and Barney both have and are avoiding religion and ideology something  that is currently the Liberals are riddled with Australia wide.


----------



## basilio (29 June 2021)

moXJO said:


> I understand how infectious this is, but we seem to be losing our minds over a handful of infections.



Cute moXjo.  Just a couple of infections.  Going nowhere, No problem really.  









						Global report: rise in Delta variant cases forces tougher restrictions
					

Moscow reports highest death toll of any Russian city, while Delta variant forces tighter restrictions in the Asia-Pacific region




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## moXJO (29 June 2021)

basilio said:


> Cute moXjo.  Just a couple of infections.  Going nowhere, No problem really.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The media reaction is out of proportion to the number of infections. No its not all going to fall apart. You cannot and should not expect a zero infection rate forever 

Let's just say we will come to a point where lockdowns will no longer be economically viable. 
Scomo wants to get the vaccine rolled out quick smart when that's the case.


----------



## basilio (29 June 2021)

moXJO said:


> The media reaction is out of proportion to the number of infections. No its not all going to fall apart. You cannot and should not expect a zero infection rate forever
> 
> Let's just say we will come to a point where lockdowns will no longer be economically viable.
> Scomo wants to get the vaccine rolled out quick smart when that's the case.




The media  and medical concern about "a few infections" is based on the experience overseas of watching the delta COVID strain dominate India, Russia , UK and many European countries within a couple of months. It is extremely infectious and will not be easily  held to a static limited number of infections.

From what the  epidemiologists  can see *the only way* to control the spread of this virus (short of total lockdown)  is  90% plus vaccination of people.  And this will probably require a booster shot anyway.

But I certainly see your point about lockdowns becoming economically crippling.  Which makes the drive to vaccinate everyone ASAP even more urgent.

*Kudos to Scomo for assisting/encouraging everyone who is willing to get the Astaa Zenica jabs.* The blot clot risk is real but very small. The consequences of getting and spreading delta COVID is a far more compelling argument.


----------



## sptrawler (29 June 2021)

moXJO said:


> The media reaction is out of proportion to the number of infections. No its not all going to fall apart. You cannot and should not expect a zero infection rate forever
> 
> Let's just say we will come to a point where lockdowns will no longer be economically viable.
> Scomo wants to get the vaccine rolled out quick smart when that's the case.



Well the media went on and on about the blood clots, now no one wants to be vaccinated, the media is now trying to backfill the hole they dug IMO.








						GPs 'experiencing burnout' as AstraZeneca conversation shifts yet again
					

GPs welcome the federal government's move to make AstraZeneca more available to all adult Australians but say a lot of work is needed to turn around entrenched attitudes about the vaccine's safety.




					www.abc.net.au
				



From the article:
Several GPs have welcomed the federal government's push to make the AstraZeneca vaccine more available to all adult Australians, but say a lot of work is needed to turn around entrenched attitudes about the vaccine's safety.









						‘It got the UK out of its mess’: Under-40s seek out AstraZeneca shots
					

People under 40 have rushed to book AstraZeneca vaccines after the Prime Minister said they could come forward, but the health advice is clear Pfizer is the preferred shot.




					www.smh.com.au


----------



## basilio (29 June 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Well the media went on and on about the blood clots, now no one wants to be vaccinated, the media is now trying to backfill the hole they dug IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Totally agree.  The issues around  blood clots are real but  they are still exceptionally small numbers. The alternative of no vaccine and trying to avoid delta COVID  is a real nightmare.
I sincerely hope there are people with enough commonsense  left to get vaccinated with Astra ASAP.

Interestingly enough I heard very recently that a third Astra jab  seems to be an effective booster against the more viralent recent COVID strains.


----------



## Humid (30 June 2021)

20000 returned travellers last month to Queensland were not stranded aussies and instead were travelling for business or brought here by companies on working visas


----------



## sptrawler (30 June 2021)

Humid said:


> 20000 returned travellers last month to Queensland were not stranded aussies and instead were travelling for business or brought here by companies on working visas



Absolutely, great pickup.


----------



## Humid (2 July 2021)

Clot Morrison is very quiet?


----------



## Humid (2 July 2021)

Sydneysiders told to stay home unless attending a search party for Scott Morrison
					

"Vaccines have also been reported missing"




					chaser.com.au


----------



## wayneL (2 July 2021)

Today marks the day we enter into a true totalitarianism... and the hill I will most likely (literally) die on.


----------



## Humid (2 July 2021)

wayneL said:


> Today marks the day we enter into a true totalitarianism... and the hill I will most likely (literally) die on.



Choices wayneL ....you moved here knowing the deal obviously to die ....


----------



## Humid (2 July 2021)

Scott Morrison’s ‘new deal’ for a Covid-normal Australia is just the old deal he’s failed to deliver – get us vaccinated | Katharine Murphy
					

The PM’s plan is the quicker we all get vaccinated, the quicker we get out of this; less an insight than a statement of the bleeding obvious




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## wayneL (2 July 2021)

Humid said:


> Choices wayneL ....you moved here knowing the deal obviously to die ....



I was referring to our Luciferian PMs speech today.... Nuttin' to do with McStalin


----------



## Knobby22 (2 July 2021)

wayneL said:


> I was referring to our Luciferian PMs speech today.... Nuttin' to do with McStalin



Pretty hard to literally die on a hill in Oz. Be fined incessantly, much more possible.


----------



## wayneL (2 July 2021)

Knobby22 said:


> Pretty hard to literally die on a hill in Oz. Be fined incessantly, much more possible.



...or be beat up by coppers for some minor, nonsensical infringement.


----------



## Humid (3 July 2021)




----------



## bellenuit (3 July 2021)

All governments have been telling people what to do for years, so I assume you have a BIG problem with whatever leader we have had.


----------



## Humid (3 July 2021)

bellenuit said:


> All governments have been telling people what to do for years, so I assume you have a BIG problem with whatever leader we have had.



YEAH especially the god botherers









						Wren's Week: Scott Morrison's Pentecostal beliefs have affected Liberal Party policies
					

Scott Morrison's blind devotion to his religious beliefs has had an influence on various Liberal policies including climate change denialism.




					independentaustralia.net


----------



## IFocus (3 July 2021)

I always love a big announcement that is absolutely BS and pointless, que the big 4 point plan.

Anyone actually buy into this?


----------



## Humid (3 July 2021)

congrats


----------



## bellenuit (3 July 2021)

Humid said:


> YEAH especially the god botherers



So what has the current God Botherer told you to do specifically because he believes in a GOD that is a BIG problem for you?


----------



## Humid (4 July 2021)

bellenuit said:


> So what has the current God Botherer told you to do specifically because he believes in a GOD that is a BIG problem for you?



If you think that fruit loops religion isnt influencing the running of this country Iwould assume you are one of them









						If Morrison’s Has Been Called Upon to Do God’s Bidding, It’s Divisive Work Indeed
					

The prime minister appeared before a gathering of Pentecostals on the Gold Coast, where he revealed aspects of his faith that led to concerns about his leadership.




					www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au


----------



## bellenuit (4 July 2021)

Humid said:


> If you think that fruit loops religion isnt influencing the running of this country Iwould assume you are one of them
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No, I am an atheist. So the fact that you didn't answer my question with specifics, is that there isn't anything he has imposed on you that was done because of his religious beliefs. So you unicorn post is just a vacuous meme.


----------



## Humid (4 July 2021)

Humid said:


> View attachment 126988



Really?
Ill read it for you
The day you start involving unicorns in making decisions for this country........you seem to have chosen only the part that suits your agenda


----------



## bellenuit (4 July 2021)

Humid said:


> Really?
> Ill read it for you
> The day you start involving unicorns in making decisions for this country........you seem to have chosen only the part that suits your agenda



You still haven't answered my question. I guess it is easier to regurgitate vacuous memes than to think about their actual relevance.


----------



## Humid (4 July 2021)

I thought thats what vacuous was


----------



## Humid (5 July 2021)

‘The Australian people had their chance’: finance minister dismisses criticism of Coalition’s car park fund
					

Simon Birmingham says voters chose Morrison government last election as he refuses to rule out similar programs in the future




					www.theguardian.com
				




It said none of the 47 project sites selected for funding commitment had been proposed by the infrastructure department.

crickets......


----------



## Humid (6 July 2021)

Are we at war or is this the last remains of the public service?


----------



## rederob (6 July 2021)

Humid said:


> View attachment 127052
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Morrison doesn't trust public servants, so he borrowed from Trump's rollout playbook.
Hard to know who did a worse job!


----------



## orr (6 July 2021)

With the scab torn off this most ineffectual of office holders incompetence at multipul levels: sexism, Rorts, public health, industry policy, a thousand days to get a Federal  Corruption Commoision on the Books; a policy taken to the last election *with cross party support * .....We've got nothing on that.       And Australia, just quiety ..... learn to expect less if you pesist with these dolts, '_you can take that to the_ Julia.Banks...'

That a putrid coward of morrisons ilk would throw out some Karki as 'cannon fodder' from deep in the bunker ???(tar humid)
.... must have run out of brown people as scape goats...Probably drowned'm all? you wouldn't know ,'on water matters'
'


----------



## Humid (6 July 2021)

orr said:


> With the scab torn off this most ineffectual of office holders incompetence at multipul levels: sexism, Rorts, public health, industry policy, a thousand days to get a Federal  Corruption Commoision on the Books; a policy taken to the last election *with cross party support * .....We've got nothing on that.       And Australia, just quiety ..... learn to expect less if you pesist with these dolts, '_you can take that to the_ Julia.Banks...'
> 
> That a putrid coward of morrisons ilk would throw out some Karki as 'cannon fodder' from deep in the bunker ???(tar humid)
> .... must have run out of brown people as scape goats...Probably drowned'm all? you wouldn't know ,'on water matters'
> '



You always hear this 10 years behind the US  b/s.....Morrison has drawn us nearer by 5 years


----------



## moXJO (7 July 2021)

Humid said:


> View attachment 127052
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What the hell was this all about?
Are we about to invade covid19?


----------



## Smurf1976 (7 July 2021)

moXJO said:


> What the hell was this all about?
> Are we about to invade covid19?



Australian federal politics has descended to the point of total farce in my view.

No offence to the man but that image is quite literally the sort of thing that would have been done on TV as a comedy sketch less than one generation ago and seen as over the top ridiculous, purely for entertainment.

If a child asked me to explain government to them, I'd stick to local and state and I'm completely serious there. Federal would be simply too embarrassing whereas at least the states and local councils are somewhat serious.


----------



## moXJO (7 July 2021)

It's obvious the fed govs message isn't cutting through. If you are not a prime time news watcher like myself then imagery like the above is confusing and meme worthy.


----------



## sptrawler (7 July 2021)

moXJO said:


> It's obvious the fed govs message isn't cutting through. If you are not a prime time news watcher like myself then imagery like the above is confusing and meme worthy.



The plebs would love it IMO, makes all the self righteous general public covid police, feel they are empowered. 😂 
They probably are tuned to ABC news 24, just in case they miss one of the hourly updates. 🤣


----------



## basilio (9 July 2021)

Clearly the ScoMo government doesn't think it is trustworthy re. COVID  and the Medical Community has been vilified.

So bring in a 5 Star General to project steel and certainty.  (be helpful if he also had a few million doses of vaccine as well.)

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-09/coronavirus-vaccine-rollout-in-generals-hands/100275726


----------



## SirRumpole (9 July 2021)

basilio said:


> Clearly the ScoMo government doesn't think it is trustworthy re. COVID  and the Medical Community has been vilified.
> 
> So bring in a 5 Star General to project steel and certainty.  (be helpful if he also had a few million doses of vaccine as well.)
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-09/coronavirus-vaccine-rollout-in-generals-hands/100275726



Sorry to be picky, but he's only 3 stars bas. Five stars would be a Field Marshall. That used to be Prince Philip.

This shouldn't be a military operation, but clearly the public health system can't cope thanks to the disinterest of the LNP who only want to reduce costs, like cutting back Medicare rebates and the NDIS.


----------



## bellenuit (9 July 2021)

basilio said:


> (be helpful if he also had a few million doses of vaccine as well.)


----------



## basilio (9 July 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Sorry to be picky, but he's only 3 stars bas. Five stars would be a Field Marshall.



Actually it should have been a Six or sSeven star General for such a job 
That was poetic license.

I am glad however there are more vaccines available. The most pithy observation I have heard re vaccines was:

* "The best vaccine is the one you jab today"*


----------



## basilio (9 July 2021)

What a surprise !  Scotty from Marketing may just have been doing a little spin mongering regarding the extra million doses of vaccine a week from July 19th.

*Pfizer knows nothing about this story.*

The official government press release has the usual  lying ScoMo get out clause.

_The government now anticipates getting 4.5m deliveries in August. But Morrison’s spokesman cautioned “due to the nature of pandemic vaccine supply these numbers are subject to change and will be confirmed closer to the delivery date”._









						Pfizer says no change to Australian Covid vaccine doses, contradicting reports of ‘game-changing’ deal
					

Prime minister Scott Morrison says pace of vaccination rollout accelerating




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## SirRumpole (9 July 2021)

basilio said:


> What a surprise !  Scotty from Marketing may just have been doing a little spin mongering regarding the extra million doses of vaccine a week from July 19th.
> 
> *Pfizer knows nothing about this story.*
> 
> ...



Slomo says we are not getting any more Pfizer than originally planned, we are just getting it earlier.

Believe it or not.


----------



## IFocus (10 July 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Slomo says we are not getting any more Pfizer than originally planned, we are just getting it earlier.
> 
> Believe it or not.





Not


----------



## orr (11 July 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Slomo....



_Slo'w-Mo'tion_....
A turd that's taking to long to be rid of...


----------



## basilio (12 July 2021)

Spot on..

*Dyson Launches New ‘Scott Morrison’ Range, “The World’s Most Impressive Leadership Vacuum”   * 









						Dyson Launches New ‘Scott Morrison’ Range, “The World’s Most Impressive Leadership Vacuum”
					

"It doesn't do anything at all except suck"




					www.theshovel.com.au


----------



## wayneL (14 July 2021)

There was some discussion on another thread comparing the current Liberal party, to the days of Menzies.

I tender this article from the Spectator as an interesting take (and pretty accurate in my opinion)









						Why I’m off to the Liberal Democrats | The Spectator Australia
					

Prime Minister Scott Morrison’s roadmap to normality was criticised as vague but it did contain one piece of substance –- he made it harder for stranded Australians to return home.  Our mindset at…




					www.spectator.com.au
				




Prime Minister Scott Morrison’s roadmap to normality was criticised as vague but it did contain one piece of substance –- he made it harder for stranded Australians to return home.  Our mindset at this point should be to tear down that Covid wall, Prime Minister, not heighten it. 

The government’s re-election strategy appears to be built around flogging the Covid horse till polling day.  The clean-up however is too urgent for political timetables.  Australia has been one of the least Covid impacted nations but on a per capita basis has racked up one of the world’s biggest Covid debts — comparable to wartime.  When those wastrels of the ALP lost office in 2013 they handed over $257 billion in federal government debt.  Three Liberal Party PMs later and it’s on its way to $1.2 trillion.

Endless debt? Engineering the semi-Covid. state?  All but promising ‘carbon-neutrality’ by 2050?  Sorry, but three strikes and you are out.  This is not just a deviation from the Liberal Party’s founding. It’s betrayal. 

At his campaign launch for the 1946 election, opposition leader Robert Menzies thundered, ‘Or shall we build upon liberal democracy, which passionately believes that the war was fought to overthrow the authoritarian state; that there can be no national progress except through the efforts of the individual.’  Menzies was a classical liberal –- small state, big citizens -– hence his choice of party name.

A few years after his retirement, Menzies spent many hours being interviewed by the Australian correspondent for The Economist, Lady Frances McNicoll.  Her audio recordings of many of the interviews are preserved.  That goldmine was largely sealed until the Menzies Foundation gave Troy Bramston access while he was researching his 2019 definitive biography of Menzies. Menzies’ view of his successors reveals endless disappointment.  In 1974, at a gala event for this eightieth birthday Menzies said, ‘When we commenced the Liberal Party we had principles.  Principles are apparently nowadays things that are not to be insisted upon because to insist upon them is to demonstrate you are ‘reactionary’ or ‘conservative.’’  Bramston has ample evidence Menzies, at least once, voted for the right-wing Democratic Labor Party. 

If the great man was distressed in the 1970s what would he think now?  After the last 18 months, my hunch is he’d want to see a 1944-style fresh start. 



The Liberal Party could have championed a Swedish style citizen-trusting, light-touch Covid response.  Sweden took an early hit but today has one of Europe’s lowest Covid fatality rates and along the way didn’t set dangerous precedents.  If outlier Sweden was a bridge too far, then for months we’ve had plenty of evidence from big and small American states that the impulse to wind back Covid restrictions early is sound.

Social media often compares this Covid episode with George Orwell’s 1984. It’s inaccurate. We don’t have monitoring cameras in our homes and while dissent is curbed it’s not a crime.  On a scale of one to ten, however (with ten being 1984), pre-Covid we were a two and now we’re a four.  The trend is not our friend but very correctable. Covid has however demonstrated that if the big state and big business seriously collude they have the means to engineer a twenty-first century high-tech version of Orwell’s dystopia (China’s halfway there).

Lockdowns, travel prohibitions, tracking, snitching on neighbours, school closures, masks, free money and debt to Jupiter have all been a happy joint venture of the state and federal ‘Lib-Lab Party.’  Keen observers are not surprised.  In 2017 then Treasurer Scott Morrison had this to say about free speech, ‘I know this issue doesn’t create one job, doesn’t open one business, doesn’t give anyone one extra hour.”  Scott Morrison has been a workaholic his entire working life and I suspect he’s been too busy to ever ponder his party’s classical liberal founding.

It wasn’t always this way.  The New South Wales Division is to blame.

In its first half, the Liberal Party was dominated by the Victorian division. Every federal leader from 1945 to 1985 was a Victorian bar Billy McMahon. Other than the brief tenures of Andrew Peacock and Alexander Downer, every subsequent leader has come from NSW.  

Besides a brief period from 2003 to 2009, the NSW Division has been controlled by the erroneously named ‘moderate’ faction.  Yes, they’re moderate about policy (they don’t believe in much) but they’re immoderate about the pursuit, not so much of power, but of perks. 

The moderates are a throwback to the Tammany Hall-style political machines which ran many American cities in the nineteenth century.  Political machines are built on patronage and their end-product is sub-optimal politicians more loyal to the machine than the national interest.  The ethos of the moderates is, ‘winning isn’t the most important thing, it’s the only thing’ and that now dominates the federal parliamentary party. 

There was meant to be a ‘small government dry’ faction somewhere in the party room but they’ve been awfully quiet during Covid. If they can’t speak up now, what use are they?  Had Prime Minister Malcolm Fraser overseen a similar response to the swine flu scare of 1976, there would have been cabinet resignations, an irate backbench and a backdown. 

What about the Nationals?  Barnaby said some good things as a backbencher but the quieter he stays as deputy PM, the more it suggests his grumblings were comeback tactics.  More significantly, a party panel recently rejected John Anderson’s much-anticipated comeback and party grandees didn’t seem to care.

Anyway, I’m off to the Liberal Democratic Party. Surely classical liberalism is a growth stock in 2021.  Can the LDP become a party of government that restores economic rationalism? I’m told it’s a longshot but it’s a better bet than clinging to the false hope the Liberals rediscover their founding principles.  If Menzies voted DLP in 1972, my hunch is he would vote LDP in 2022.

_John Ruddick is the Liberal Democratic Party candidate for the seat of Warringah at the next federal election._


----------



## Knobby22 (14 July 2021)

I am sure the Liberal Democrats would be very popular as long as they don't push unpopular agendas such as reduce gun restrictions, reduce coverage of Medicare,  stop climate change action, convert  public education to private, sell the post office etc


----------



## wayneL (14 July 2021)

Knobby22 said:


> I am sure the Liberal Democrats would be very popular as long as they don't push unpopular agendas such as reduce gun restrictions, reduce coverage of Medicare,  stop climate change action, convert  public education to private, sell the post office etc



Yeah for most Australians, there is at least one deal-breaker in that list for sure.

Of course, those policies run a hell of a lot deeper than just the 3 word slogans. Unfortunately our edia does not operate past three word slogans, so the complete policy position is never presented.

But that's just the way it is and they would be wise to modify their policies accordingly.


----------



## Smurf1976 (15 July 2021)

wayneL said:


> Sweden took an early hit but today has one of Europe’s lowest Covid fatality rates



It might be good by European standards but it's approximately 40 times that of Australia's on a per capita basis. That's a pretty major failure given Australia's response hasn't exactly been as good as it could've been either.

We're going very wrong as a species if economics or politics becomes the deciding factor in this sort of issue. Both are, after all, largely based on fake concepts anyway.

Proper science is a far superior approach when it comes to fixing actual problems or even simply making money.


----------



## wayneL (15 July 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> It might be good by European standards but it's approximately 40 times that of Australia's on a per capita basis. That's a pretty major failure given Australia's response hasn't exactly been as good as it could've been either.
> 
> We're going very wrong as a species if economics or politics becomes the deciding factor in this sort of issue. Both are, after all, largely based on fake concepts anyway.
> 
> Proper science is a far superior approach when it comes to fixing actual problems or even simply making money.



Apples and oranges, bro.


----------



## Smurf1976 (15 July 2021)

wayneL said:


> Apples and oranges, bro.



That's the point is it not?

Australia's "apples" approach of lockdowns and so on has thus far resulted in approximately one 40th the death rate of Sweden's "oranges" approach of "let it rip".

That's a direct comparison of the two approaches - Sweden's has been vastly inferior thus far in terms of the death toll and there's zero chance of reversing that impact, you can't bring back the dead.


----------



## wayneL (16 July 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> That's the point is it not?
> 
> Australia's "apples" approach of lockdowns and so on has thus far resulted in approximately one 40th the death rate of Sweden's "oranges" approach of "let it rip".
> 
> That's a direct comparison of the two approaches - Sweden's has been vastly inferior thus far in terms of the death toll and there's zero chance of reversing that impact, you can't bring back the dead.



Well not really. We can set up fortress Australia by virtue of being an island, and by being both physically and culturally distant.

The Swedes don't have that luxury. They are essentially contiguous with the rest of Europe.

Additionally, one must look at the respective pictures _in toto_. Gotta go into the weeds for that comparison.

Personal opinion... At this point, I would *much rather live there than here.


----------



## Humid (16 July 2021)

Meanwhile on the radio the PM is talking about $hitting his pants


----------



## Humid (16 July 2021)

wayneL said:


> Well not really. We can set up fortress Australia by virtue of being an island, and by being both physically and culturally distant.
> 
> The Swedes don't have that luxury. They are essentially contiguous with the rest of Europe.
> 
> ...



Is there a crowdfund?


----------



## PZ99 (16 July 2021)

Speaker Tony Smith to retire from politics at the election...

I reckon he should kick everyone out on the last day under 94a


----------



## basilio (21 July 2021)

The Minister for Rorts rise again. 
But of course corruption in  this government has now been redefined as "Business as usual"

Angus Taylor and Josh Frydenberg’s offices chose sites for commuter car parks​MPs nominated projects for the $660m fund in what was ‘an exercise in politics’, Labor says







Angus Taylor’s office nominated commuter car parks for stations in neighbouring electorates, ‘on the way to Sydney’, Senate estimates has been told. Photograph: Mike Bowers/The Guardian

Paul Karp

@Paul_Karp
Wed 21 Jul 2021 03.30 AEST
Last modified on Wed 21 Jul 2021 10.24 AEST



Two commuter car parks in the Labor seat of Macarthur in New South Wales received federal funding because they were selected by the office of neighbouring Liberal MP and minister Angus Taylor, the audit office has revealed.

Evidence to Senate estimates confirmed the offices of Taylor and the federal treasurer, Josh Frydenberg, nominated projects in their own or neighbouring electorates, which Labor MP Mike Freelander says shows the program was “an exercise in politics”.

*The Australian National Audit Office found in June that the 47 projects sites in the $660m commuter car park fund were handpicked by the government on the advice of its MPs and candidates – with none selected by the infrastructure department.*









						Angus Taylor and Josh Frydenberg’s offices chose sites for commuter car parks
					

MPs nominated projects for the $660m fund in what was ‘an exercise in politics’, Labor says




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## basilio (21 July 2021)

As usual The Shovel  has the last (and best) say.


The Nation 

*Government Promises Funding For New Carpark In Fairfield To Ease COVID-Test Congestion          * 








Those queuing for a COVID test in the Sydney suburb of Fairfield can expect some relief when a new government funded carpark is built there in 2028.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison confirmed the funding yesterday, saying he is always willing to help with Australia’s COVID response, especially if it involves building imaginary infrastructure.                                                                                

“A lot of people would look at this situation and say that what Fairfield needs right now is additional testing facilities or vaccination centres. But they’re forgetting that when you’re facing a pretty terrifying health crisis, what you actually need is a place to park your car in seven years’ time.

The car park proposal was quietly pulled when a staffer pointed out that Fairfield was situated in a safe Labor seat.









						Government Promises Funding For New Carpark In Fairfield To Ease COVID-Test Congestion
					

"When you’re facing a health crisis, what you need is a place to park your car in 7 years’ time"




					www.theshovel.com.au


----------



## IFocus (21 July 2021)

basilio said:


> The Minister for Rorts rise again.
> But of course corruption in  this government has now been redefined as "Business as usual"
> 
> Angus Taylor and Josh Frydenberg’s offices chose sites for commuter car parks​MPs nominated projects for the $660m fund in what was ‘an exercise in politics’, Labor says
> ...





There was a time in the Australian Westminster System of governance where they would be gone, now its just smile and wave blaming media, Labor etc.


----------



## sptrawler (21 July 2021)

IFocus said:


> There was a time in the Australian Westminster System of governance where they would be gone, now its just smile and wave blaming media, Labor etc.



Yes, I see your mate Craig is back in the news, you know back when politicians were honest.  
Funny the media don't mention which party, just former MP, just a small oversight by the media, let the plebs fill in the blanks with whichever party they dislike. 🤣








						Former federal MP Craig Thomson embroiled in new fraud investigation
					

The Central Coast home of the former MP was searched by police as part of an investigation into alleged fraud against the federal government.




					www.theage.com.au


----------



## moXJO (21 July 2021)

When the hell were politicians honest? 
Rorts were worse before the digital age.


----------



## Joules MM1 (21 July 2021)

not sure this is the _right_ thread for this question
does anyone here have a pugnacious press conference this week?
please dont feel needled by the question, you dont have to answer too quickly, no rush, it's not a race

asking for a friend


----------



## IFocus (21 July 2021)

Joules MM1 said:


> not sure this is the _right_ thread for this question
> does anyone here have a pugnacious press conference this week?
> please dont feel needled by the question, you dont have to answer too quickly, no rush, it's not a race
> 
> asking for a friend





Haha that's not bad JM


----------



## IFocus (21 July 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Yes, I see your mate Craig is back in the news, you know back when politicians were honest.
> Funny the media don't mention which party, just former MP, just a small oversight by the media, let the plebs fill in the blanks with whichever party they dislike. 🤣
> 
> 
> ...





He was charged and found guilty unlike the current crop of self-serving criminals sitting in government.


BTW how is that Federal ICAT going?


----------



## IFocus (21 July 2021)

moXJO said:


> When the hell were politicians honest?
> Rorts were worse before the digital age.





Never were and will never be that's why a federal ICAT is required, fought tooth and nail by the current incumbents not that they are hiding anything.


----------



## sptrawler (21 July 2021)

IFocus said:


> He was charged and found guilty unlike the current crop of self-serving criminals sitting in government.
> 
> 
> BTW how is that Federal ICAT going?



Yep, nothing much changes, just the faces.


----------



## sptrawler (22 July 2021)

Interesting article regarding Japans take on Australia's handling of China.








						Japan reveals truth about strained relationship with China
					

Japan's ambassador has cleared up a common misperception about the state of their relations with China. Read why the country is "struggling every day".




					au.news.yahoo.com


----------



## IFocus (22 July 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Interesting article regarding Japans take on Australia's handling of China.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Watched his speech at National Press Club of Australia. live on the ABC it was interesting as he went through Japans and Australia's very long term close trading connection (didn't mention the war) , he also totally got the Australian humour.


----------



## Humid (28 July 2021)

The prime minister of NSW
Do you Morrison voters lap this $hit up?


----------



## Humid (28 July 2021)




----------



## moXJO (29 July 2021)

Humid said:


> View attachment 128076
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I never see anything about scomo. I only read online news and he is never in it.

You are literally my scomo news source


----------



## moXJO (29 July 2021)

So scomo has now said get vaccinated because you are risking your health if you don't and the government is going to put measures in to make you get it to 'protect you'. 

Now I'm suss on vaccinations.


----------



## PZ99 (29 July 2021)

Some employers here in West Syd are offering the phixer vac on site so I'm in that (not the astrodeath one)

Otherwise I wouldn't have bothered.

So there's a tip for ScoMo&Co if you wanna a gold star on your hands instead of lockdowns / recessions


----------



## Knobby22 (29 July 2021)

PZ99 said:


> Some employers here in West Syd are offering the phixer vac on site so I'm in that (not the astrodeath one)
> 
> Otherwise I wouldn't have bothered.
> 
> So there's a tip for ScoMo&Co if you wanna a gold star on your hands instead of lockdowns / recessions



Good idea.
Sco Mo said on the ABC this morning he reckons he get can get nearly everyone who wants to be vaccinated a couple of shots by Christmas.
If he achieves that his star will rise.


----------



## sptrawler (29 July 2021)

Knobby22 said:


> Good idea.
> Sco Mo said on the ABC this morning he reckons he get can get nearly everyone who wants to be vaccinated a couple of shots by Christmas.
> If he achieves that his star will rise.



From what I'm hearing, "everyone that wants a vaccination", isn't that many people. 🤣
I think we are lucky we couldn't source vaccine earlier, because most would have gone down the sink, due to no demand for a vaccination.
It's only the media going on about the shortage of Phizer and the side effects of AZ, that has given the Government breathing space, imagine the uproar if most people had wanted the vaccine.
In reality the media has saved Scomo's ar$e again, instead of the majority of the population saying the govmnt is useless because they can't get the vaccine, most I talk to are saying thankfully I don't have to have it yet.
As it is, most people who want the vaccine will have it by Christmas, if that is only 40% of the population, well that's a different issue. 🤣


----------



## Knobby22 (29 July 2021)

sptrawler said:


> From what I'm hearing, "everyone that wants a vaccination", isn't that many people. 🤣
> I think we are lucky we couldn't source vaccine earlier, because most would have gone down the sink, due to no demand for a vaccination.
> It's only the media going on about the shortage of Phizer and the side effects of AZ, that has given the Government breathing space, imagine the uproar if most people had wanted the vaccine.
> In reality the media has saved Scomo's ar$e again, instead of the majority of the population saying the govmnt is useless because they can't get the vaccine, most I talk to are saying thankfully I don't have to have it yet.
> As it is, most people who want the vaccine will have it by Christmas, if that is only 40% of the population, well that's a different issue. 🤣



I've heard it's about 80%.  We shall see.


----------



## sptrawler (29 July 2021)

Knobby22 said:


> I've heard it's about 80%.  We shall see.



Probably ramped since the latest outbreak. 🤣


----------



## rederob (29 July 2021)

Humid said:


> View attachment 128077



*Scomo hasn't even got us through the eliminations, so even Steven Bradbury wouldn't be in the race:*





*
You know we are has beens when Brazil is outpacing our vaccination rates.*


----------



## sptrawler (29 July 2021)

rederob said:


> *Scomo hasn't even got us through the eliminations, so even Steven Bradbury wouldn't be in the race:*
> 
> View attachment 128123
> 
> ...



Yet there are 3 million doses, siiting there doing nothing, I mean get real.lol
The WHO has asked us to give them away.lol


----------



## Humid (29 July 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Yet there are 3 million doses, siiting there doing nothing, I mean get real.lol
> The WHO has asked us to give them away.lol



I thought you were Astra Zeneca hesitant or have you changed your tune?


----------



## rederob (29 July 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Yet there are 3 million doses, siiting there doing nothing, I mean get real.lol
> The WHO has asked us to give them away.lol



We have the federal government responsible for the rollout, including marketing.
Missing in action ....


----------



## Knobby22 (29 July 2021)

rederob said:


> We have the federal government responsible for the rollout, including marketing.
> Missing in action ....



It depends what happens once October comes and the vaccines arrive.


----------



## Humid (29 July 2021)

Not sure having shots close together has helped Israel compared to the UK is the noise


----------



## IFocus (29 July 2021)

Just note the federal politicians (Morrison ) all had Pfizer... that's the same bloke urging people to take AZ.

All sniping aside it will be interesting to see if the government can get a good take up once Pfizer supply's arrive heaven help if they don't.


----------



## wayneL (29 July 2021)

IFocus said:


> All sniping aside it will be interesting to see if the government can get a good take up once Pfizer supply's arrive heaven help if they don't.




Why?

The vaccines aren't even working.


----------



## Knobby22 (29 July 2021)

wayneL said:


> Why?
> 
> The vaccines aren't even working.




On your other new thread you started, how can I like this for example with such an extremely obvious falsehood that can be proven wrong by looking at any countries figures on the earth.

So therefore I am predictable and the other side because I don't believe the media, government, scientists and millions of other individuals involved in healthcare are lying and working in concert as a world government to create the Great Reset.

Sorry.


----------



## wayneL (29 July 2021)

Knobby22 said:


> On your other new thread you started, how can I like this for example with such an extremely obvious falsehood that can be proven wrong by looking at any countries figures on the earth.
> 
> So therefore I am predictable and the other side because I don't believe the media, government, scientists and millions of other individuals involved in healthcare are lying and working in concert as a world government to create the Great Reset.
> 
> Sorry.



You don't  have to apologize.

But look at Israel as a lead.

Keep an open mind and look past the narrative. FWIW


----------



## sptrawler (29 July 2021)

IFocus said:


> Just note the federal politicians (Morrison ) all had Pfizer... that's the same bloke urging people to take AZ.
> 
> All sniping aside it will be interesting to see if the government can get a good take up once Pfizer supply's arrive heaven help if they don't.



McGowan had AZ ages ago.
I doubt that the takeup will increase, until the benefits increase, that is the problem with minimal infections.
That is the non political take on it, while people think Australia is doing great with keeping it out and the media keep telling people that vaccines are $hit, why would any healthy person who isnt interested in travel have an injection?
But hey keep blaming the govnmnt.lol


----------



## sptrawler (29 July 2021)

rederob said:


> We have the federal government responsible for the rollout, including marketing.
> Missing in action ....



Yes Rob, we know your unbending loyalties.lol
Scomo is responsible for all bushfires, all electrical problems, all injections, all hospitals.
One wonders why he just doesnt sack the States, they seem to be responsible for FA. Lol
But forgive me, I dont want to go into three pages of your droll ramblings, Im using the phone, so it is time consuming.


----------



## Humid (29 July 2021)

Humid said:


> I thought you were Astra Zeneca hesitant or have you changed your tune?



Im thinking change of tune


----------



## Humid (29 July 2021)

sptrawler said:


> McGowan had AZ ages ago.
> I doubt that the takeup will increase, until the benefits increase, that is the problem with minimal infections.
> That is the non political take on it, while people think Australia is doing great with keeping it out and the media keep telling people that vaccines are $hit, why would any healthy person who isnt interested in travel have an injection?
> But hey keep blaming the govnmnt.lol



Australia is doing great you say heard of NSW


----------



## sptrawler (29 July 2021)

Humid said:


> Australia is doing great you say heard of NSW



Isnt NSW the centre of the universe? Is it in Australia? OMG I thought it was nirvana.
I thought it was where the media gods lived, a land of wonder and ever increasing wealth, where virus couldnt survive and normal Australians couldnt afford to live.lol


----------



## Humid (29 July 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Isnt NSW the centre of the universe? Is it in Australia? OMG I thought it was nirvana.
> I thought it was where the media gods lived, a land of wonder and ever increasing wealth, where virus couldnt survive and normal Australians couldnt afford to live.lol



Ask moxy


----------



## moXJO (29 July 2021)

Humid said:


> Ask moxy



We even do outbreaks better.


----------



## Humid (29 July 2021)

moXJO said:


> We even do outbreaks better.



Gold standard


----------



## Humid (29 July 2021)

Humid said:


> Gold standard



The ******** runnng the place lives there so you can keep in house....


----------



## IFocus (29 July 2021)

sptrawler said:


> McGowan had AZ ages ago.





McGowan is in the federal government?


----------



## rederob (30 July 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Yes Rob, we know your unbending loyalties.lol
> Scomo is responsible for all bushfires, all electrical problems, all injections, all hospitals.
> One wonders why he just doesnt sack the States, they seem to be responsible for FA. Lol
> But forgive me, I dont want to go into three pages of your droll ramblings, Im using the phone, so it is time consuming.



These are the people who are now responsible for the flustercluck of our vaccine rollout:






Gold medals for mediocrity will be award by @sptrawler when he gets off the phone.


----------



## sptrawler (30 July 2021)

I thought it would be way past your bedtime Rob, good to see you are still up so late, fighting the good fight.lol
3 million AZ vaccines that no one wants because of the bagging the media gave it, the States cant even get essential workers to take a vaccine, yet you still dribble on about the Feds, time you gave it away IMO, even you must realise how ridiculous you sound.lol
By the way China have been doing extremely well in the olympics, which is great, obviously no negative effects from the sinovac


----------



## sptrawler (30 July 2021)

IFocus said:


> McGowan is in the federal government?



No but he should be, class shouldnt have boundaries, as W.A Labor has worked out.
Time that Federal Labor took a page out of McGowans book IMO.
Keep it simple, keep it honest, work for the electorate not for pressure groups.
The Feds have started to back fill the holes, but my guess is the rumblings of discontent will derail it.
Time will tell.


----------



## moXJO (30 July 2021)

Humid said:


> The ******** runnng the place lives there so you can keep in house....



We don't actually have an outbreak. It's just to keep the Victorians out.


----------



## sptrawler (30 July 2021)

Humid said:


> I thought you were Astra Zeneca hesitant or have you changed your tune?



I'm hesitant anything when it is rushed, but also I'm a realist and if i want to travel again before I kick the bucket, I'm going to have to have something.
So it is either the tried and proven old tech AZ, or wait for the new tech check it on the run mRNA, so I decided on the AZ.
As it will probably end up an annual shot, if the mRNA proves effective and safe, that will be what everyone gets down the road.
I'm always hesitant first models of a new make, so I took the old model, while it is still available. 🤣


----------



## rederob (30 July 2021)

sptrawler said:


> 3 million AZ vaccines that no one wants because of the bagging the media gave it, the States cant even get essential workers to take a vaccine, yet you still dribble on about the Feds,



If AZ is so good, why can't the feds counter the media?
The essential workers you mention would be those in aged care where the feds have responsibility.
The feds marketing campaign has been a failure by every measure, otherwise 3 million doses would not be unused.
Last year I got my flu shot at the chemist.  Why can't I get a covid vax there?
Look at the vaccination rates I posted for countries doing better and ask yourself what makes them more successful.  Countries like Canada have been maintaining their significantly higher rate for months and have not backed off despite having one of the world's highest vaccination rates:





Countries doing better are adopting best practice. 

On the dedicated quarantine facility front Morrison is again missing in action.  He must think the continued blame game will fall in his favour, forgetting this is about *us*, and not his popularity.

Morrison has managed to fracture our confidence in public administration while simultaneously demonstrating his singular inability to foster cooperation with State Premiers.  Eighteen months into this epidemic and vaccine availability remains overshadowed by a botched rollout.  But for the States' hard line on containment/elimination we would be a shambles.


----------



## sptrawler (30 July 2021)

A lot of the above countries are using sinovac, so where you get best practice from, is laughable.
The State governments are playing to their own tune, which suits their own political agenda. Morrison as happened with the bushfires is taking the flack, the media as usual is playing to the muppet brigade and meanwhile most other politicians are trying to become invisible.
Meanwhile Labor is busy throwing the baby out with the bath water, so how they would run a pandemic becomes questionable, if they can't keep core policy from one election to the next.
Nothing changes, Australia, you're standing in it. 🤣


----------



## rederob (30 July 2021)

sptrawler said:


> A lot of the above countries are using sinovac, so where you get best practice from, is laughable.



No logic to that statement, while most countries with high vaccination rates have not approved sinovac.
The issue is about having the vaccines and getting  them into arms.  Morrison is clueless about an appropriate strategy to achieve this.


sptrawler said:


> The State governments are playing to their own tune...



No, the States are reliant on the feds for vaccine doses.  Morrison is proven to have botched his dealings with Pfizer, which is the vax Australians are lining up for but cannot get.


sptrawler said:


> Morrison as happened with the bushfires is taking the flack,



Yes, because there is no evidence he can manage an appropriate response.  The media are reporting what experts are saying could and should happen, and that's what makes this so disappointing. 


sptrawler said:


> Meanwhile Labor is busy throwing the baby out with the bath water



This is about Scomo, so your attempt to deflect is typical of those who have no defense and indulge in waffle.


----------



## IFocus (30 July 2021)

sptrawler said:


> No but he should be, class shouldnt have boundaries, as W.A Labor has worked out.
> Time that Federal Labor took a page out of McGowans book IMO.
> Keep it simple, keep it honest, work for the electorate not for pressure groups.
> The Feds have started to back fill the holes, but my guess is the rumblings of discontent will derail it.
> Time will tell.




McGowan isn't any thing like the federal government hence he had AZ not Pfizer.

BTW money vested pressure groups run the Coalition remember penalty rates?


----------



## Humid (30 July 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I'm hesitant anything when it is rushed, but also I'm a realist and if i want to travel again before I kick the bucket, I'm going to have to have something.
> So it is either the tried and proven old tech AZ, or wait for the new tech check it on the run mRNA, so I decided on the AZ.
> As it will probably end up an annual shot, if the mRNA proves effective and safe, that will be what everyone gets down the road.
> I'm always hesitant first models of a new make, so I took the old model, while it is still available. 🤣



So what you are saying is that now you have decided its ok theres an abundance of vaccines available.Boomer 101


----------



## sptrawler (30 July 2021)

Humid said:


> So what you are saying is that now you have decided its ok theres an abundance of vaccines available.Boomer 101



Just doing the right thing, as no doubt you are.


----------



## sptrawler (30 July 2021)

IFocus said:


> McGowan isn't any thing like the federal government hence he had AZ not Pfizer.



Which is what I said, there should be more like McGowan in Federal politics.


----------



## sptrawler (30 July 2021)

rederob said:


> The essential workers you mention would be those in aged care where the feds have responsibility.



I was thinking locally.








						McGowan backs mandatory vaccinations for WA mine site workers
					

WA Premier Mark McGowan says he is in support of companies making it mandatory for workers to be vaccinated if they wanted to work at mines around the state.




					www.watoday.com.au
				




Also places like the Queensland hospital, where the receptionist on the covid ward wasn't vaccinated and travelled to far north Queensland.

As far as aged care goes, I think it is becoming mandatory from September, isn't it?


----------



## Humid (30 July 2021)




----------



## Humid (30 July 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I was thinking locally.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The blokes necking a dozen beers a night wont be happy putting that $hit in their bodies


----------



## Humid (30 July 2021)

moXJO said:


> We even do outbreaks better.



How is life under Gladimir going


----------



## moXJO (30 July 2021)

Humid said:


> How is life under Gladimir going



Boring and everyone is going broke


----------



## sptrawler (30 July 2021)

rederob said:


> This is about Scomo, so your attempt to deflect is typical of those who have no defense and indulge in waffle.



What do you mean? 
Do you think your the only one allowed to waffle around here? 
Talk about the pot calling the kettle grimey ar$e. 😂  😂  😂  😂


----------



## sptrawler (30 July 2021)

We did say the free trade agreement with the U.K, will save us having to go through the trail and error phase, of transitioning to renewables and BEV's.





						No Cookies | Herald Sun
					

No Cookies




					www.heraldsun.com.au
				



From the article:
Australia has signed a landmark emissions reduction technology deal with Britain ahead of the Glasgow climate change summit.
Under the agreements, countries work together to advance technologies including green steel, soil carbon measurement, small modular reactors, carbon capture and use, as well as scalable and commercially viable storage.


----------



## sptrawler (30 July 2021)

rederob said:


> No, the States are reliant on the feds for vaccine doses.  Morrison is proven to have botched his dealings with Pfizer, which is the vax Australians are lining up for but cannot get.



As I said Rob, 3 million doses of AZ going down the drain, when Morrison was bagged for telling people to use them, now even 'silly Billy' is backing Scomo and AZ.
Come on Rob it's about getting Australia great again, not your personal crusade against Morrison and Kev doesn't need a hand to make a dick of himself. 😂  😂  😂









						Shorten backs AstraZeneca as the ‘magic bullet out of lockdown’
					

While Anthony Albanese remains reluctant to specifically back the AstraZeneca vaccine, the former Labor leader says the locally made jab is the path out of lockdown.




					www.smh.com.au
				




The other thing may be, what if Morrison isn't that keen to align himself with mRNA, until the jury is in on it?

Here is another fact for you Rob.




__





						NoCookies | The Australian
					






					www.theaustralian.com.au
				




Scomo's fault. 🤣  🤣  🤣


----------



## sptrawler (30 July 2021)

rederob said:


> No, the States are reliant on the feds for vaccine doses.  Morrison is proven to have botched his dealings with Pfizer, which is the vax Australians are lining up for but cannot get.



I don't think so Rob, I think people are just a $hit scared of the risk associated and it is nothing to do with your boggey man Scomo. 😂








						Two-thirds of SA ambulance officers aren't fully vaccinated, government reveals
					

South Australia's Health Minister, Stephen Wade, reveals only 35 per cent of the state's ambulance service staff are fully vaccinated.




					www.abc.net.au
				



From the article:
Almost two-thirds of South Australian ambulance staff are not fully vaccinated against COVID-19, despite being part of the initial phases of the immunisation program.


----------



## sptrawler (30 July 2021)

Like I said the Government has finally stopped feeding the chooks, with time lines, now it is percentages, that is much easier it isn't Scomo's pick, it is the Australians public pick. At last let the people decide.  
I bet he wished he had that time over again.🤣








						‘Special rules’: Vaccinated Australians to avoid lockdown restrictions once 70% target hit
					

Vaccinated Australians will be able to avoid some lockdown restrictions and international border rules will be loosened once enough people get both doses of a vaccine.




					www.theage.com.au


----------



## Humid (31 July 2021)

The plan lol

"Once we get into phase B, into the B phase, then the calculus does change & lockdowns do cost a lot, aaand when you get to a phase where you have that higher level of protection then there is more discretion exercised when it comes if something like that is necessary"

This is what he's feeding you


----------



## Humid (31 July 2021)

For moxy and the lack of Scomo on his news feed


----------



## Humid (2 August 2021)




----------



## wayneL (2 August 2021)

Humid said:


> View attachment 128486



I am even more convinced than ever that Hewson was/is a Manchurian Candidate. Nothing this man stands for is any further right than Adam Bandt.
...and and nobody could have been that incompetent to "lose the unloseable election" without intentionly doing so.


----------



## sptrawler (2 August 2021)

wayneL said:


> I am even more convinced than ever that Hewson was/is a Manchurian Candidate. Nothing this man stands for is any further right than Adam Bandt.
> ...and and nobody could have been that incompetent to "lose the unloseable election" without intentionly doing so.



I can actually envision Rudd, Turnbull and Hewson starting another Party, the 'look at me' Party, or maybe the 'wretched ghosts' Party. 🤣


----------



## wayneL (2 August 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I can actually envision Rudd, Turnbull and Hewson starting another Party, the 'look at me' Party, or maybe the 'wretched ghosts' Party. 🤣



Fraser would've been a good fit there too.


----------



## sptrawler (2 August 2021)

wayneL said:


> Fraser would've been a good fit there too.



As would Bob Carr, another one who just can't give it away, after they have been given the heave ho. 🤣
That's what we need, a Party for ex politicians, with an attention deficiency disorder.
The media when they are short of a page filler, must send one of the reporters around to one of their places, to get a story.
Must be funny for the reporter, turning up at a house overlooking the water, to get a story from a bloke in a nightgown and zip up slippers. 🤣


----------



## sptrawler (2 August 2021)

Humid said:


> View attachment 128486



Well there is one accurate statement in Hewson's write up, in the last line where he says "hoping that voters have short memories".
He should have said, "they will be hoping voters will have a memory like mine, I couldn't remember how to work out the GST on a cake, when I was trying to sell it as P.M". 🤣
The media really does struggle, when they have to get duds to push their agenda IMO. Hewson and Shorten have something in common, they both lost the unlosable election, now your quoting them @Humid.🤪 you'd be better off quoting 'the shovel', it's more credible. 😂 









						John Hewson was favourite to become PM when Mike Willesee asked this question about a cake
					

Mike Willesee was a giant of current affairs journalism. A bad interview with him could alter the course of a federal election campaign, and that's exactly what happened in 1993.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## orr (2 August 2021)

It's an interesting comparison between Hewson and morrison; both leaders of the Liberal party and both have achived zero significant  policy implementation... Difference is one was a primeminister for over three years.

Ohh and ....
dismissed 26 attempts for a Banking RC
organized the illegal and murderious ROBO debt scheme
ingnored the calls by 23 retired Emergency Cheifs on the inpending fire catastrophy barreling toward eastern sea board, busily  distracted sport rort'n and another type of barreling on car parks.
hear no see no rapists.
_'Kunkle Pearson please please!! boy's just one reach around'_

to be remembered, if at all, as Skid Mark morrison...


----------



## sptrawler (2 August 2021)

orr said:


> It's an interesting comparison between Hewson and morrison; both leaders of the Liberal party and both have achived zero significant  policy implementation... Difference is one was a primeminister for over three years.
> 
> Ohh and ....
> dismissed 26 attempts for a Banking RC
> ...



Yes but they didn't put up the retirement age to 67.
They didn't get rid of tarrifs to decimate Australian manufacturing.
They didn't bring in fringe benefit taxes, which brought about FIFO, which decimated Country mining towns.
No it took the caring Labor mob to do that. 🤪
Don't come the moral high ground crap, neither side have that and I haven't even talked about those who were actually thrown in gaol, for criminal behaviour. 😂
By the way I loved the one about the retired fire chiefs, wouldn't they have been better phoning their own departments? because the fire services are a State function. 🤣
Your post actually makes sense quoting retired people, you aren't Malcolm Turnbull, are you? 🤣
By the way a piss poor result of handling a pandemic, doesn't mean that people who couldn't handle putting batts in rooves, would do it better.😉
Not that I'm sold on this government, I'm not, it is just to make a sensible decision takes sensible discussion.


----------



## orr (2 August 2021)

And with cross the floor support and the vast bulk of the population sceaming the need for a Federal Integrity Commission morrisons off in padocks talking to the daisey's...   '_Aloha_'  skid mark....

And what was Ray 'bromance' Hadley's take on on luvva boy's vaccine preformance???  ahh accurate...

might want try  using something with a straight barrel yourself trawler the targets seem a little hard to hit lately.


----------



## wayneL (2 August 2021)

orr said:


> It's an interesting comparison between Hewson and morrison; both leaders of the Liberal party and both have achived zero significant  policy implementation... Difference is one was a primeminister for over three years.
> 
> Ohh and ....
> dismissed 26 attempts for a Banking RC
> ...



Thank you for that Labor Party announcement.


----------



## Humid (2 August 2021)

wayneL said:


> I am even more convinced than ever that Hewson was/is a Manchurian Candidate. Nothing this man stands for is any further right than Adam Bandt.
> ...and and nobody could have been that incompetent to "lose the unloseable election" without intentionly doing so.



and the content?


----------



## wayneL (2 August 2021)

Humid said:


> and the content?



You first


----------



## sptrawler (2 August 2021)

orr said:


> And with cross the floor support and the vast bulk of the population sceaming the need for a Federal Integrity Commission morrisons off in padocks talking to the daisey's...   '_Aloha_'  skid mark....
> 
> And what was Ray 'bromance' Hadley's take on on luvva boy's vaccine preformance???  ahh accurate...
> 
> might want try  using something with a straight barrel yourself trawler the targets seem a little hard to hit lately.



Sorry missed this one, was too busy taking the pizz out of your other one, jeez you had better run them past rederob first, at least his makes some sense.
Now for this one who the F is Ray Hadley?, I live in W.A I assume he is some pin up boy you have a crush on?
As for barrels, I guess you're from the navy and spent some time in them? 🤣


----------



## Humid (2 August 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Yes but they didn't put up the retirement age to 67.
> They didn't get rid of tarrifs to decimate Australian manufacturing.
> They didn't bring in fringe benefit taxes, which brought about FIFO, which decimated Country mining towns.
> No it took the caring Labor mob to do that. 🤪
> ...



When did you discover emojis


----------



## Humid (2 August 2021)

wayneL said:


> You first



Mate if your happy with this lot why return to WA


----------



## sptrawler (2 August 2021)

Humid said:


> When did you discover emojis



When I realised, you struggled to form a sentence. 🤣
But it is great to see, you are jumping in to rescue your illiterate mate. 
Fortunately middle Australia, isn't illiterate. 😉


----------



## Humid (2 August 2021)

sptrawler said:


> When I realised, you struggled to form a sentence. 🤣
> But it is great to see, you are jumping in to rescue your illiterate mate.
> Fortunately middle Australia, isn't illiterate. 😉



But unfortunately they are suffering morbid obesity like you if you want to get personal pops


----------



## sptrawler (2 August 2021)

Humid said:


> But unfortunately they are suffering morbid obesity like you if you want to get personal pops



Mate after seeing the fifo guys, I wouldn't be talking about morbid obesity. 🤣
By the way a comma after obesity and another after you, wouldn't have gone astray. 🤪
Also not wanting to be pedantic, but a full stop might have been nice.
Also to top it all off, when haven't you been personal? 
Remember you called me out for spelling the Labor Party, the Labour Party, if you check it out, it can be spelt either way, in the U.K they call, it the Labour Party, hey I said nothing.


----------



## wayneL (2 August 2021)

Humid said:


> Mate if your happy with this lot why return to WA



Wut?

When did I say I was happy with this lot? I'm on record here, several times, and saying I will never vote the Liberal party ever again in my life. Recent totalitarian announcements have solidified my opinion there!

And nothing to Labour party has done will make me want to vote for them either.

I have some leads but not sure yet.


----------



## Humid (2 August 2021)

wayneL said:


> Wut?
> 
> When did I say I was happy with this lot? I'm on record here, several times, and saying I will never vote the Liberal party ever again in my life. Recent totalitarian announcements have solidified my opinion there!
> 
> ...



So is it what Hewson said or who he is then?


----------



## sptrawler (2 August 2021)

wayneL said:


> Wut?
> 
> When did I say I was happy with this lot? I'm on record here, several times, and saying I will never vote the Liberal party ever again in my life. Recent totalitarian announcements have solidified my opinion there!
> 
> ...



Absolutely spot on, these rusted on want to beat anyone who questions the norms as being pro one or the other, muppets.
I voted McGowan and I was leaning toward Albo, but when you get the BLF in your face, you start and question your logic.


----------



## Humid (2 August 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Mate after seeing the fifo guys, I wouldn't be talking about morbid obesity. 🤣
> By the way a comma after obesity and another after you, wouldn't have gone astray. 🤪
> Also not wanting to be pedantic, but a full stop might have been nice.
> Also to top it all off, when haven't you been personal?



The last time you knew anything about fifo Ansett were flying 
Give it a rest the gyms are busier than the wet mess


----------



## wayneL (2 August 2021)

Humid said:


> So is it what Hewson said or who he is then?



You going to have to clarify what your point is, bro.

My point is clear, but I have no idea what you're trying to get at.


----------



## sptrawler (2 August 2021)

Humid said:


> The last time you knew anything about fifo Ansett were flying
> Give it a rest the gyms are busier than the wet mess



I bet they are, since the recent rape allegations.


----------



## sptrawler (2 August 2021)

Humid said:


> So is it what Hewson said or who he is then?



I'll answer that, muppets pop up in both parties, the problem is when voters can't recognise them as muppets.
Fortunately we have done pretty well up until now, this election I think will be the closest ever, neither leader is a muppet both are in a position to win.
IMO it is line ball ATM.


----------



## wayneL (2 August 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I'll answer that, muppets pop up in both parties, the problem is when voters can't recognise them as muppets.
> Fortunately we have done pretty well up until now, this election I think will be the closest ever, neither leader is a muppet both are in a position to win.
> IMO it is line ball ATM.



Perhaps neither leader is a muppet but both are puppets.


----------



## Humid (2 August 2021)

Why is Murdoch trying so hard to keep this lot in power?


----------



## Humid (2 August 2021)

Communications watchdog’s role in question as Sky News Australia cops YouTube suspension
					

Media experts say the decision by YouTube to suspend Sky News for misinformation has highlighted the need to review the broadcast watchdog’s set of teeth.




					www.smh.com.au
				




Beaming this tripe to regional Australia for free


----------



## wayneL (2 August 2021)

Humid said:


> Why is Murdoch trying so hard to keep this lot in power?



Because we would go from dreadful to absolutely diabolical?


----------



## sptrawler (2 August 2021)

wayneL said:


> Perhaps neither leader is a muppet but both are puppets.



Very possible, however as per usual one will win, that is why the way the supporters project their preference is important IMO.
You get some full on loonies posting anti Scomo posts, yet the ones who decide the vote are the swinging voters, they will weigh up all the inputs and vote accordingly, so they will vote who they think.
There is a huge problem in Australia with its geopolitical position, we are half a World away from Europe and the USA, yet we want to be aligned with their culture.
Yet we are surrounded by most of the Worlds population, who aren't really aligned to Europe or the USA, it isn't a great place to be.
Yet we have most of the media trying to destabilise our position, if that doesn't change, i can't see it ending well.


----------



## Humid (2 August 2021)

wayneL said:


> Because we would go from dreadful to absolutely diabolical?



Are you going the economic management card....the adults or is there a new one


----------



## Humid (2 August 2021)

wayneL said:


> Because we would go from dreadful to absolutely diabolical?



From a bloke who moves to a labor state by choice lol


----------



## sptrawler (2 August 2021)

Humid said:


> Communications watchdog’s role in question as Sky News Australia cops YouTube suspension
> 
> 
> Media experts say the decision by YouTube to suspend Sky News for misinformation has highlighted the need to review the broadcast watchdog’s set of teeth.
> ...



Yet no one says anything about the SMH, AGE, ABC being so left wing, it doesn't make either side right, it just makes both sides more rabid.
Then the middle Australian looks left and right and makes a decision on what makes sense.
That is what the loony left and loony right don't seem to understand, middle ground don't listen to the white noise.
I definitely think it is time for a change of government, this government has spent $hit loads of money and won't want to be accountable, so they will be soft, another government will be able to use the current debt to justify change.
It isn't fing rocket science, some just have trouble working it out.


----------



## sptrawler (2 August 2021)

Humid said:


> From a bloke who moves to a labor state by choice lol



Why wouldn't he move to W.A? Horsey people earning mega bucks, plus they all live within 200klm of Perth, it is a no brainer.
Time you smartened up and that is a tip, not a put down.
Having an epitaph that says, "he went down the toilet, but he remained true to Queensland",  isn't a great look.
The same goes for elections, just because honest John Tonkin was a great Labor State leader, doesn't mean Brian Burke was.  
Also just because Charlie Court was a great W.A Liberal State leader, doesn't mean Ray O'Connor was.


----------



## Humid (2 August 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Why wouldn't he move to W.A? Horsey people earning mega bucks, plus they all live within 200klm of Perth, it is a no brainer.
> Time you smartened up and that is a tip, not a put down.
> Having an epitaph that says, "he went down the toilet, but he remained true to Queensland",  isn't a great look.
> The same goes for elections, just because honest John Tonkin was a great Labor State leader, doesn't mean Brian Burke was.
> Also just because Charlie Court was a great W.A Liberal State leader, doesn't mean Ray O'Connor was.



You need to put the bottle down...


----------



## sptrawler (2 August 2021)

Humid said:


> You need to put the bottle down...



Obviously.
There are none so deaf, as those who don't want to hear, none so blind as those that will not see.
*Matthew Henry*
By the way, didn't you say something about not getting personal?


----------



## Humid (2 August 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Obviously.
> There are none so deaf, as those who don't want to hear, none so blind as those that will not see.
> *Matthew Henry*
> By the way, didn't you say something about not getting personal?



never I just go lower


----------



## sptrawler (2 August 2021)

Humid said:


> never I just go lower



That's fine and it is actually healthy from a debate point of view, but your reasoning has to be sound, not just absolute dribble.
I remember when I lived in the Goldfields as a young bloke, girls were always a point of contention, one guy was using a university degree vocabulary to impress one of the girls, the guy who put him through the wall walked away with the smiling girl.

These days he would have had his picture snapped, he would have probably been sued and lost a lot of money, done time and he would have a criminal record.
You just keep where you are sunshine, and you are attracting the same audience.


----------



## wayneL (2 August 2021)

Humid said:


> From a bloke who moves to a labor state by choice lol



Dude, I came from a labor state.

And, FFS, a point that may be lost on you is that I moved to WA for reasons other that politics.... The pissant current premier not relevant.

 ...you know, family and irrelevant sh¹t like that, so get ***ed.


----------



## sptrawler (2 August 2021)

wayneL said:


> Dude, I came from a labor state.
> 
> And, FFS, a point that may be lost on you is that I moved to WA for reasons other that politics.... The pissant current premier not relevant.
> 
> ...you know, family and irrelevant sh¹t like that, so get ***ed.



Hey, he doesn't like personal, unless it is him, or his cronies dishing it out. 🤣


----------



## sptrawler (2 August 2021)

The crazy thing is this is the Scomo thread, yet all people are doing is putting up arguments that don't hold water, @orr just throws out mindless dribble, @IFocus  dances around the edges and @Humid drops in one liner, hope it hits the mark darts.
Hopefully @rederob can come to the rescue and actually get a concise, factual, pointed and precise angle.
Like I've said on numerous occasions it is time to change Government, but it wont be achieved on the response to covid IMO, as on most measures the majority of Australians will feel pretty comfortable, there are many screaming to get home.
So putting away the media hype about the Feds response, it will come down to what each party is offering, as yet I don't think the party lines are drawn, but it wont be long before they start to become apparent.
Interesting times IMO.


----------



## moXJO (3 August 2021)

Humid said:


> Give it a rest the gyms are busier than the wet mess



After seeing all my mates I have to ask:
Is "gym" code for icecream line?


----------



## Humid (3 August 2021)

wayneL said:


> Dude, I came from a labor state.
> 
> And, FFS, a point that may be lost on you is that I moved to WA for reasons other that politics.... The pissant current premier not relevant.
> 
> ...you know, family and irrelevant sh¹t like that, so get ***ed.



So the meet up for beers is OFF?


----------



## Humid (3 August 2021)

Coalition Agrees To Give $300 To Gerry Harvey For Every Australian Vaccinated
					

“Incentives are good, but they need to be properly targeted"




					www.theshovel.com.au


----------



## IFocus (3 August 2021)

sptrawler said:


> The crazy thing is this is the Scomo thread, yet all people are doing is putting up arguments that don't hold water, @orr just throws out mindless dribble, @IFocus  dances around the edges and @Humid drops in one liner, hope it hits the mark darts.
> Hopefully @rederob can come to the rescue and actually get a concise, factual, pointed and precise angle.
> Like I've said on numerous occasions it is time to change Government, but it wont be achieved on the response to covid IMO, as on most measures the majority of Australians will feel pretty comfortable, there are many screaming to get home.
> So putting away the media hype about the Feds response, it will come down to what each party is offering, as yet I don't think the party lines are drawn, but it wont be long before they start to become apparent.
> Interesting times IMO.





That's a shocker of a post by any measure.


----------



## Humid (3 August 2021)

IFocus said:


> That's a shocker of a post by any measure.



I told him to put the bottle down


----------



## sptrawler (3 August 2021)

IFocus said:


> That's a shocker of a post by any measure.



It might be, but it doesn't change the fact it is accurate, just look at the Orr's posts, Humid's posts and your posts.
My case rests, your honour. 🤣


----------



## wayneL (3 August 2021)

Humid said:


> So the meet up for beers is OFF?




Unless you're shouting


----------



## Humid (3 August 2021)

wayneL said:


> Unless you're shouting



Well since I'm one of the few with gainfull employment and pay tax here .....I'll get my PA to check my diary as it wont have to coincide with a franking credit deposit like others...


----------



## IFocus (3 August 2021)

sptrawler said:


> It might be, but it doesn't change the fact it is accurate, just look at the Orr's posts, Humid's posts and your posts.
> My case rests, your honour. 🤣





We don't like a in-defensible corrupt bunch of thieves running the country (badly)... you like to defend them that's the fact.

Calling me names is neither here nor there just a bad look for yourself... carry on.


----------



## Humid (3 August 2021)

IFocus said:


> We don't like a in-defensible corrupt bunch of thieves running the country (badly)... you like to defend them that's the fact.
> 
> Calling me names is neither here nor there just a bad look for yourself... carry on.



His choice of government has made him change his choice of vaccine and now carries on like everthing is normal......the true rusty


----------



## sptrawler (3 August 2021)

IFocus said:


> We don't like a in-defensible corrupt bunch of thieves running the country (badly)... you like to defend them that's the fact.
> 
> Calling me names is neither here nor there just a bad look for yourself... carry on.



I actually didn't call you any names.
The point is if people carried on as Orr does, and to a lesser degree Humid does, in a thread such as the vaccine thread or any other thread that you actually have some interest in, you would tell them to keep on track and stop posting up nonsense.
There are people that probably want to have sensible debate and discussion on the government and the opposition, without feeling intimidated, I'm sure they read the posts and just don't bother.
It would be good if the postings were sensible discussions, rather than ridiculous rants, or taking personal pot shots to which people react and then it descends into another slanging match.


----------



## Humid (3 August 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I actually didn't call you any names.
> The point is if people carried on as Orr does, and to a lesser degree Humid does, in a thread such as the vaccine thread or any other thread that you actually have some interest in, you would tell them to keep on track and stop posting up nonsense.
> There are people that probably want to have sensible debate and discussion on the government and the opposition, without feeling intimidated, I'm sure they read the posts and just don't bother.
> It would be good if the postings were sensible discussions, rather than ridiculous rants, or taking personal pot shots to which people react and then it descends into another slanging match.



Keep digging you clown


----------



## sptrawler (3 August 2021)

Humid said:


> Keep digging you clown



Is that the person who doesn't get personal. I see you are still running true to form.


----------



## Humid (3 August 2021)

Do you want  me to TRAWL back through posts to show where  you and the Mrs are waiting for Fizzer vaccs or should of we forgotten about your old rants Mr flim flam
What a flog


----------



## sptrawler (3 August 2021)

Humid said:


> Do you want  me to TRAWL back through posts to show where  you and the Mrs are waiting for Fizzer vaccs or should of we forgotten about your old rants Mr flim flam
> What a flog



What are you going on about? after waiting and listening, reading and discussing with people, I changed my mind and had the AZ, also the Phizer wasn't available and that makes me a flog.
I'm still not happy about having the vaccine, but I had booked a trip to North Queensland, that was meant to fly out Fri morning, so I had the vaccine.
You are certainly a strange person, a very strange person.


----------



## Humid (3 August 2021)

sptrawler said:


> What are you going on about? after waiting and listening, reading and discussing with people, I changed my mind and had the AZ, also the Phizer wasn't available and that makes me a flog.
> I'm still not happy about having the vaccine, but I had booked a trip to North Queensland, that was meant to fly out Fri morning, so I had the vaccine.
> You are certainly a strange person, a very strange person.



No you had no other option you flog


----------



## Humid (3 August 2021)

Humid said:


> No you had no other option you flog



Because your beloved Guvnut failed you ...be honest


----------



## sptrawler (3 August 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Oh well, we get ours tomorrow, but still not holding out much hope for the North Queensland trip on 6th August.



That is from about two weeks ago.
You really need to get a grip, your anger management techniques are failing.
By the way, if you hadn't noticed, it's your government too, you sad little man. 🤣


----------



## Humid (3 August 2021)

nah mate this is your doing enjoy the $hitshow


----------



## moXJO (3 August 2021)

Humid said:


> Well since I'm one of the few with gainfull employment and pay tax here .....I'll get my PA to check my diary as it wont have to coincide with a franking credit deposit like others...



Come on Richie Rich, you can afford shouting that imported stuff into WA. Which under Covid rules is pretty much VB and New.


----------



## sptrawler (3 August 2021)

Humid said:


> nah mate this is your doing enjoy the $hitshow



What $hitshow? we have had relatively few deaths from the virus, the all ords is at an all time high, one year on from an event worse than the 2010 GFC.
In 2010 it took 10 years for the all ords to recover, now mining is booming, vaccination rates are increasing, renewables are being put in place as fast as possible, builders in W.A can't keep up, the tourist towns are full of locals holidaying at home.
What $hitshow are you actually talking about? Or is that your anger management issues breaking through again?


----------



## Humid (4 August 2021)

sptrawler said:


> What $hitshow? we have had relatively few deaths from the virus, the all ords is at an all time high, one year on from an event worse than the 2010 GFC.
> In 2010 it took 10 years for the all ords to recover, now mining is booming, vaccination rates are increasing, renewables are being put in place as fast as possible, builders in W.A can't keep up, the tourist towns are full of locals holidaying at home.
> What $hitshow are you actually talking about? Or is that your anger management issues breaking through again?



The one that you wont be going to Cairns due to hotel quarantine and lack of vaccines


----------



## Humid (4 August 2021)

moXJO said:


> Come on Richie Rich, you can afford shouting that imported stuff into WA. Which under Covid rules is pretty much VB and New.







__





						Running with Thieves are producers of premium quality goods.
					

Running with Thieves industry leading brewery is located on iconic South Beach. Included is a bar, restaurant and retail outlet that reflects the modern, relaxed sophistication of South Fremantle. The venue is home to a fully operational brewery and distillery, and produces a range of craft beers, i




					www.runningwiththieves.com
				



Been drinking here......bit like the Libs


----------



## sptrawler (4 August 2021)

Humid said:


> The one that you wont be going to Cairns due to hotel quarantine and lack of vaccines



But I've had the vaccine, there's plenty of it, just people don't want it, luckily the outbreak has reversed the hesitancy. Do try to keep up.


----------



## Humid (4 August 2021)

sptrawler said:


> But I've had the vaccine, there's plenty of it, just people don't want it, luckily the outbreak has reversed the hesitancy. Do try to keep up.











						ATAGI statement on revised recommendations on the use of COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca, 17 June 2021
					

A statement from the Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation (ATAGI) on the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine in response to new vaccine safety concerns.




					www.health.gov.au
				



plenty of vaccines for the varicose vein set


----------



## Humid (4 August 2021)

sptrawler said:


> That is from about two weeks ago.
> You really need to get a grip, your anger management techniques are failing.
> By the way, if you hadn't noticed, it's your government too, you sad little man. 🤣



You could travel locally.....do you think the Morris 1100 is up to it?


----------



## sptrawler (4 August 2021)

Humid said:


> You could travel locally.....do you think the Morris 1100 is up to it?



I've actually been everywhere in W.A, many, many times. I lived in Dampier before Karratha was built, around the time that 'Red dog' the movie was set in, when the Mermaid Hotel was built.
Then lived in the Goldfields, Lived in Exmouth, the SW and Perth, worked for Regional power stations for a while, so yep there isn't many places I  haven't had a beer in.
Done the Anne Beadell, the Canning, the great central road six times, been to the Israelite Bay telegraph station, the Bungle Bungles, Wolfe Creek crater, Lake Ballard Statues, Gwalia(stayed in Hoover House), Niagara dam, done the Nullarbor about 16 times twice on a motor bike, surfed Yallingup when sunrise surfboards were made there, so thinking of somewhere new locally, is a problem.

The closest thing I've had to a Morris 1100, was a 1275 Mini Cooper S, the Morris 1100 S actually had a 1275 motor in it also.
The only way you could tell the motors apart was the Morris had 12 head studs, the Cooper S had 12 head stud plus one head bolt.
I actually completely rebuilt the Cooper S, bored it out to 1310, put in Kolbenschmidt high compression pistons a 23/64 cam and replaced the twin SU's with a 45mm weber two barrel side draft, it would have made the trip o.k.


----------



## sptrawler (4 August 2021)

Humid said:


> You could travel locally.....do you think the Morris 1100 is up to it?



How's your bucket list going? Done much with your life, other than be a keyboard warrior?
By the way another couple of places that are worth dropping into, if your Hyundai excel can get you there is, Palm Springs near halls Creek and Koonalda homestead petrol station on the Nullarbor.😂
But realistically, as the only way you will see the State, will be from a Donga. When you are at Telfer, do a trip to Carawine Gorge.
Best we get back on thread.


----------



## Humid (4 August 2021)

sptrawler said:


> How's your bucket list going? Done much with your life, other than be a keyboard warrior?
> By the way another couple of places that are worth dropping into, if your Hyundai excel can get you there is, Palm Springs near halls Creek and Koonalda homestead petrol station on the Nullarbor.😂
> But realistically, as the only way you will see the State, will be from a Donga. When you are at Telfer, do a trip to Carawine Gorge.
> Best we get back on thread.



I find its the people  you travel with more so than the destination but most good places I've be to in the past have been ruined by young people with too much money.
Next destination will be Canada to see family and take the piss out of super nice peeps


----------



## sptrawler (4 August 2021)

Humid said:


> I find its the people  you travel with more so than the destination but most good places I've be to in the past have been ruined by young people with too much money.
> Next destination will be Canada to see family and take the piss out of super nice peeps



Yes well hopefully Canada hasn't gone down Australia's track, where the young know everything and the elderly are there to be abused, otherwise you will end up getting bashed. 😉
Seriously, I'm not sure many other countries have followed our lead with education, most still work on the fact that children leaving school still have a lot to learn, as opposed to the Australian model where the children leave school thinking they know everything.
Yet basic punctuation, is actually beyond them. 
Most places the wife and I go to are away from touristy spots, usually inland, we like the outback, so there aren't that many young people out there.
First time we did the Great Central road in 1992 was in an EA Falcon, to take the four kids their ages ranged from 4 to 14, to see Ayers Rock. Returned via Coober Pedy and the Nullarbor. Another time, we returned via Darwin and the West Coast. The next time returned via Dalhousie Springs, Simpson Desert, Flinders Ranges and the Nullarbor.


----------



## Humid (4 August 2021)

beep beep


----------



## wayneL (4 August 2021)

Humid said:


> View attachment 128577
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Chump change, compared the the not so universal basic income (you know, the one people who actually work can't get).

MMT for lyfe, bro.


----------



## Humid (5 August 2021)

wayneL said:


> Chump change, compared the the not so universal basic income (you know, the one people who actually work can't get).
> 
> MMT for lyfe, bro.



The pension?


----------



## Humid (6 August 2021)

Hillsong pastor Brian Houston charged for allegedly concealing child sexual abuse by his father
					

Brian Houston was charged following a two-year investigation into allegations he had failed to report the alleged abuse of a young male in the 1970s.




					www.smh.com.au
				




Did he leave the country a few weeks back?


----------



## Smurf1976 (8 August 2021)

wayneL said:


> MMT for lyfe, bro.



Methylcyclopentadienyl Manganese Tricarbonyl ? 

Adding some to this government wouldn't do any harm I suppose.


----------



## wayneL (9 August 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> Methylcyclopentadienyl Manganese Tricarbonyl ?
> 
> Adding some to this government wouldn't do any harm I suppose.



I would happily administer it.


----------



## IFocus (9 August 2021)

The arrogance of Morrison is really breath taking  to using public tax payers money to fund elections now refusing to release where the money has gone for job keeper.

So illegal Robo debt pursuit that resulted in around a possible 2000 suicides and smashing lives to throwing almost the equitant of Labor governments funding of recovery GFC (remember the howls of outrage actually building stuff) to this mob throwing money at company profits.

Meanwhile small business keep begging / going to the wall.

Government by corporations for corporations carry on cheering.


----------



## sptrawler (9 August 2021)

IFocus said:


> The arrogance of Morrison is really breath taking  to using public tax payers money to fund elections now refusing to release where the money has gone for job keeper.
> 
> So illegal Robo debt pursuit that resulted in around a possible 2000 suicides and smashing lives to throwing almost the equitant of Labor governments funding of recovery GFC (remember the howls of outrage actually building stuff) to this mob throwing money at company profits.
> 
> ...



They should at least explain why the companies that didn't qualify, get to keep the funds, when those who were busted for robodebt and it wasn't completely their fault, were forced into hardship to pay it back.
I don't understand why Albo backed down, on joining the greens and independents, to force the governments hand with the name and shame.
Pollies are a bloody disgrace IMO, absolutely no moral compass, at least Andrew Leigh is standing firm.








						Companies that received JobKeeper to remain secret as government rejects naming them
					

Big businesses that received JobKeeper will be able to keep the financial support secret, with the federal Coalition rejecting a bid to make it public and the Labor Party backing down from insisting on it.




					www.abc.net.au
				



From the article:
Just last week, the shadow assistant minister for Treasury stood in the House of Representatives calling for a transparency scheme, albeit one with a higher threshold.

"We should have a public register whereby every firm with a turnover above $100 million has their details published," Mr Leigh said.

"If you're a firm … getting government handouts to support you through the pandemic, then the Australian public should know about it."
Andrew Leigh has been naming and shaming individual companies pocketing JobKeeper while posting profit increases through social media.


----------



## SirRumpole (9 August 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I don't understand why Albo backed down, on joining the greens and independents, to force the governments hand with the name and shame.




Yes , that was pretty weak.

Trying to curry the business vote ?

He's not going to go very far with his supporters if he does that.


----------



## sptrawler (9 August 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Yes , that was pretty weak.
> 
> Trying to curry the business vote ?
> 
> He's not going to go very far with his supporters if he does that.



It was a good opportunity to get on the front foot.


----------



## IFocus (9 August 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Yes , that was pretty weak.
> 
> Trying to curry the business vote ?
> 
> He's not going to go very far with his supporters if he does that.





Looks like going small target or is scared of big money going after him or both.


----------



## Smurf1976 (10 August 2021)

sptrawler said:


> They should at least explain why the companies that didn't qualify, get to keep the funds, when those who were busted for robodebt and it wasn't completely their fault, were forced into hardship to pay it back.



One rule for some, a different rule for others. Classic born to rule attitude.

That said, the one issue I can see is what were businesses told at the time?

If they were told it was to remain confidential (hypothetically since I've no idea if that was actually the case) then as a matter of principle government should stick to whatever was promised at the time.

Just as governments should honour all promises unless there's a major, real change of circumstances which precludes doing so.


----------



## SirRumpole (10 August 2021)

Smurf1976 said:


> Just as governments should honour all promises unless there's a major, real change of circumstances which precludes doing so.




Does that mean that subsequent governments have to keep promises of previous governments that they don't agree with ?

It seems that in this case as Labor voted against Rex Patrick's Bil, they agree with confidentiality, but it's not always the case.


----------



## sptrawler (10 August 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Does that mean that subsequent governments have to keep promises of previous governments that they don't agree with ?
> 
> It seems that in this case as Labor voted against Rex Patrick's Bil, they agree with confidentiality, but it's not always the case.



If they don't they usually compensate with big payouts, that's happened before.


----------



## IFocus (10 August 2021)

Its public funds no room for confidentiality, I have no issues with the government paying or subsidising companies during the pandemic as long as its transparent.

The idea someone making profits getting payments and keeping the cash is quit extraordinary.


----------



## Smurf1976 (10 August 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Does that mean that subsequent governments have to keep promises of previous governments that they don't agree with ?




That depends on the detail.

In the context of an arrangement between government and business, if business is lead to believe at the time that it's confidential then it ought to remain so regardless of who's in government.

Whether or not it ought to be confidential is another question but if private enterprise or an individual is informed that it it's confidential then that's what it should be. A deal is a deal.

There's also an issue with things like manufacturing to keep the cost base as secret as possible. The more competitors know about key input costs, the easier it is to engage in predatory pricing to put them out of business. That's a pretty major issue in some contexts and one reason such businesses aren't keen on government owning utilities, railways and so on. The risk that the price ends up being public just makes it dead easy for competitors.


----------



## wayneL (10 August 2021)

100%


----------



## sptrawler (11 August 2021)

I might be wrong, but I was right with silly Billy, I really think Albo needs to crank it up or he will be in deepum $hitum.
Morrison is changing the rhetoric and I don't think it will end well for Albo, unless he gets on the front foot, I think the small target has run its course.
Like I said I think the media is going to lose the election for Labor this time, by constantly bagging Morrison, he doesn't have to jump a very high bar.
Time will tell. 




__





						Press Conference Canberra, ACT | Prime Minister of Australia
					






					www.pm.gov.au
				



From the article:
_We will set out a clear plan, as we have been working to do. Australians deserve to know, and they will from us_.


----------



## wayneL (11 August 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I might be wrong, but I was right with silly Billy, I really think Albo needs to crank it up or he will be in deepum $hitum.
> Morrison is changing the rhetoric and I don't think it will end well for Albo, unless he gets on the front foot, I think the small target has run its course.
> Like I said I think the media is going to lose the election for Labor this time, by constantly bagging Morrison, he doesn't have to jump a very high bar.
> Time will tell.
> ...



My dream (realistic) scenario... Lib Dems hold balance of power in the Senate and channel Don Chipp... and keep the bastards honest.


----------



## sptrawler (11 August 2021)

wayneL said:


> My dream (realistic) scenario... Lib Dems hold balance of power in the Senate and channel Don Chipp... and keep the bastards honest.



That would be nice, but we have ended up with two parties really and it takes really well engineered plan to play the media, to win.
Which actually tells you how poor politics has become, these days it is more of a competition between the P.M and the media, for both parties.
The media want a single focus, because it uses less resources to trip the P.M up on a full range of portfolio's, than having the resources to focus on ministers of individual portfolios. More bang for bucks IMO.
The problem for Labor is, Albo hasn't put anything forward, so when he does, he will be under the pump.
Especially if he has to get the whole message over, in a short period of time, when he is being attacked by the Government and the media.
Cutting things fine IMO.


----------



## basilio (13 August 2021)

Government is siccing debt collectors onto pensioners who received a few extra dollars through Job Keeper.

But of course no one in the Government is considering any action on business that made  out like bandits on job keeperand _paid themselves huge bonuses ripped from the hard working taxpayers ._

Be interesting to see how these actions are revived at election time. 

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...le-who-are-choosing-between-food-and-medicine


----------



## Humid (20 August 2021)

Liar, liar pants on fire - Pearls and Irritations
					

It is commonly believed if you are going to consistently tell lies you need either a good memory or a hide like a rhinoceros. These days neither seems to be necessary. Scott Morrison fails the first qualification, comfortably fits into the second while, fittingly for  a fundamentalist...




					johnmenadue.com


----------



## basilio (24 August 2021)




----------



## basilio (24 August 2021)

Humid said:


> Liar, liar pants on fire - Pearls and Irritations
> 
> 
> It is commonly believed if you are going to consistently tell lies you need either a good memory or a hide like a rhinoceros. These days neither seems to be necessary. Scott Morrison fails the first qualification, comfortably fits into the second while, fittingly for  a fundamentalist...
> ...




Very thoughtful story. Great website too !
Thanks


----------



## sptrawler (1 September 2021)

Sounds as though the withdrawl from Afghanistan, has brought on the reality of how exposed we really are.




__





						Morrison government will invest billions into 'next-generation air capabilities'
					





					www.msn.com
				



From the article:
Minister for Defence Peter Dutton says the Morrison government will be investing $65 billion “over the next decade into next-generation air capabilities” with the inclusion of acquiring Long Range Anti-Ship Missiles.


----------



## Knobby22 (1 September 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Sounds as though the withdrawl from Afghanistan, has brought on the reality of how exposed we really are.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



We need to. Those jet fighters we were buying are now duds. The USA should sell us some stealth fighters instead.


----------



## macca (1 September 2021)

Knobby22 said:


> We need to. Those jet fighters we were buying are now duds. The USA should sell us some stealth fighters instead.



I think we should lease some newish stuff from the USA or the UK, maybe a 10 year lease for their spare ships.

Much better than buying a Sub that runs on Diesel in 2050, what an idiot, probably won't even be able to buy diesel by then


----------



## sptrawler (1 September 2021)

Knobby22 said:


> We need to. Those jet fighters we were buying are now duds. The USA should sell us some stealth fighters instead.



A few hypersonic long range missiles scattered across the North wouldn't hurt either IMO.


----------



## sptrawler (1 September 2021)

macca said:


> I think we should lease some newish stuff from the USA or the UK, maybe a 10 year lease for their spare ships.
> 
> Much better than buying a Sub that runs on Diesel in 2050, what a F idiot, probably won't even be able to buy diesel by then



Yes someone needs to pull the rug on that one, let's be honest you are only going to upset the French and when have they given a $hit about anyone else's feelings. 🤣








						Sinking of the Rainbow Warrior - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## PZ99 (1 September 2021)

$65 billion “over the next decade into next-generation air capabilities

or...

ZERO for not being an aggressor in your own neighbourhood


----------



## Humid (1 September 2021)

JobKeeper shame and the collapse of business leadership in Australia - Michael West Media
					

Unless they disclose who got it, JobKeeper will remain a giant festering stain on the reputation of big business in Australia. Michael West reports on business’s greatest shame.




					www.michaelwest.com.au
				



Nah school halls and pink bats fits my narrative....


----------



## IFocus (3 September 2021)

Humid said:


> JobKeeper shame and the collapse of business leadership in Australia - Michael West Media
> 
> 
> Unless they disclose who got it, JobKeeper will remain a giant festering stain on the reputation of big business in Australia. Michael West reports on business’s greatest shame.
> ...





It beyond anything seen in Australia's history from the article


"Week in, week out, we are treated to whining by the leaders of Australia’s business lobby. Taxes are too high, wages are too high, government debt is too high; these are the common refrains. 

We see them on the ABC, we see them on Sky “News”. They are all over the press, pontificating to politicians and anybody who will listen how Australians should conduct their affairs.

But where are they now, where are they on the issue of* the biggest transfer of wealth in history, a transfer of almost $100 billion in JobKeeper subsidies from ordinary Australians to business*, much of it to big business which did not need it to survive?

Slinking about behind the scenes warning the Coalition not to dare disclose who got what and how much, that’s where. Silent on the matter of this transfer of $9,000 per Australian citizen to corporations."


----------



## Knobby22 (3 September 2021)

Job keeper debacle aside  I will give them some points for getting the UK phisor swap  How do you spell it?


----------



## sptrawler (3 September 2021)

Knobby22 said:


> Job keeper debacle aside  I will give them some points for getting the UK phisor swap  How do you spell it?



I think history will judge this period, more accurately than it is being judged ATM, the media are judging it daily, I don't think that will give a true representation.
Time will tell how Australia fares, at the moment it is all media 20 second time grabs, that helps circulation but doesn't really reflect the overall situation, just the situation at that point in time.


----------



## Humid (3 September 2021)

Knobby22 said:


> Job keeper debacle aside  I will give them some points for getting the UK phisor swap  How do you spell it?



Them having a surplus and us not having enough is another debacle


----------



## Humid (3 September 2021)

Shamelessness is the only currency this government knows
					

Last week, an accused rapist was elevated to the role of Leader of the House.




					theshot.net.au


----------



## sptrawler (3 September 2021)

Humid said:


> Shamelessness is the only currency this government knows
> 
> 
> Last week, an accused rapist was elevated to the role of Leader of the House.
> ...



Yes well I don't think he will be there next election, that's the problem when you go into politics, you go into a sphere where everything you ever did in your past, will come back to haunt you.
I know a lot of people, who wouldn't want their past indiscretions from when they were teenagers, coming back to haunt them.
Porter was a high flyer, but as always happens, their past catches up.


----------



## IFocus (3 September 2021)

Humid said:


> Shamelessness is the only currency this government knows
> 
> 
> Last week, an accused rapist was elevated to the role of Leader of the House.
> ...





Good find, jGeessas massive list more than all the previous governments post war I would think, amazing.


----------



## basilio (9 September 2021)

Shamelessness is the only currency this government knows
					

Last week, an accused rapist was elevated to the role of Leader of the House.




					theshot.net.au
				





*WOW.   *

Jo Dyer  isn't taking any short steps in her condemnation of the utter shamelessness of this corrupt, incompetent excuse for a government. Long. Incredibly detailed and every allegation referenced.

Great find and certainly worth keeping.  Far too hot and confrontational for any main stream media.


----------



## sptrawler (9 September 2021)

basilio said:


> Shamelessness is the only currency this government knows
> 
> 
> Last week, an accused rapist was elevated to the role of Leader of the House.
> ...



Jo Dyer, isn't she the good friend of the lady that Porter allegedly raped?
I googled her name and this article was first cab off the rank.








						Arts boss posts angry Facebook rant against new SA Liberal Government
					

A Facebook spray against the incoming Liberal Government in South Australia by the newly appointed head of Adelaide Writers' Week Jo Dyer prompts a call from a senior Liberal for her to apologise.




					www.abc.net.au
				




Sounds like she may have a few bias issues IMO.


----------



## basilio (9 September 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Jo Dyer, isn't she the good friend of the lady that Porter allegedly raped?
> I googled her name and this article was first cab off the rank.
> 
> 
> ...




Jo Dyer  goes far beyond the Christian Porter revelations. Her job on the Scumo Government is very detailed.
Your welcome to read it, check out the evidence and then comment on the assertion that this is a totally shameless government.


----------



## sptrawler (9 September 2021)

basilio said:


> *Jo Dyer  goes far beyond the Christian Porter revelations*. Her job on the Scumo Government is very detailed.
> Your welcome to read it, check out the evidence and then comment on the assertion that this is a totally shameless government.



I'm sure she does, the article I posted wasn't about Christian Porter, it wasn't even about the Federal Government.
It was about her obviously deep seated hatred for the Liberal Party in general, as it wasn't even about a sitting Government, it was about a newly elected State Government.
I have no doubt that there are some horrible characters in politics, I personally think that it is probably a prerequisite for becoming a politician, the only ones I have seen that seem to have a moral compass usually leave politics.
As for myself personally, I'm not interested in being friends with politicians and or liking them, they are there to do a job and it is that on which I base my votes. If they happen to be a wonderful person and have a lovely family, well that's a bonus, not for me but for them.
I never liked many politicians on a personal level, yet some were excellent politicians, that did exceptional things for the country.
I would rather have nasty politicians with the publics interests at heart, than lovely politicians with there own interests at heart.
Just my opinion.


----------



## basilio (15 September 2021)

*Man Who Remembers Bowl Of Prawns From 1988 Doesn’t Know Who Put Up To $1 Mil In His Bank Account   * 







A former Attorney General who remembers the specific type of food that was provided at a debating function 33 years ago, can’t for the life of him think who might have deposited up to $1 million in a trust fund he set up.

“I just don’t have that sort of attention to detail, sorry,” said the man who also remembered the precise act of ironing a shirt on a university trip more than three decades ago.                                                                               

He said the busyness of life meant it was impossible to keep track of every single little detail. “I’m across the big things, sure, like those yummy prawns from ‘88; they stick in my mind. About 10-12 cm long, with a beautiful zesty sauce. But for God’s sake, I can’t be expected to keep up with pesky little details like who’s funding a seven-figure law bill for a case I initiated!”

He said the funding could’ve come from anywhere. “On any given day there are literally thousands of people who could potentially deposit a large sum of money into an account. Who keeps a track of that sort of thing?

“If the money was deposited into a bowl that contained prawns or some other type of hors d’oeuvres, then absolutely I would’ve taken note of where it came from. But not if it goes into a financial account of with my name on it”.









						Man Who Remembers Bowl Of Prawns From 1988 Doesn’t Know Who Put Up To $1 Mil In His Bank Account
					

"I'm not across all of the detail, sorry"




					www.theshovel.com.au


----------



## basilio (15 September 2021)

Malcolm Turnbull says Christian Porter's use of anonymous blind trust to pay legal fees an 'affront to transparency'​
Federal minister Christian Porter's decision to accept mystery funds to pay personal legal fees has been described as a "shocking affront to transparency" by his former boss.

..Mr Turnbull questioned how Mr Porter could accept the money in good faith.

"This flies in the face of every principle of transparency and accountability in public life," the former prime minister told the ABC.

"This is an absolute affront.



> "I will be even more staggered if the Prime Minister allows this to stand — it is a shocking affront to transparency."










"Politicians or political parties can't take money from anonymous donors," he said.

"If you walk in to the Liberal Party, you know, with a bag over your head, and a chaff bag full of cash and say 'I want to make this donation' they won't, they can't accept it.

"What Porter is saying is that it is okay for an Australian cabinet minister, a former attorney-general, not just of Australia, but of Western Australia, to take a large donation, a large gift to himself without disclosing who the donor was."









						PM asks for advice on whether Christian Porter mystery donation breaches ministerial standards
					

Scott Morrison seeks advice about whether a decision by former attorney-general Christian Porter to accept mystery funds to pay part of his personal legal fees breached ministerial standards.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## IFocus (15 September 2021)

I guess its further evidence of the sheer arrogance of the Coalition quite amazing Porter has done this knowing the implications.


----------



## wayneL (15 September 2021)

basilio said:


> Malcolm Turnbull says Christian Porter's use of anonymous blind trust to pay legal fees an 'affront to transparency'​
> Federal minister Christian Porter's decision to accept mystery funds to pay personal legal fees has been described as a "shocking affront to transparency" by his former boss.
> 
> ..Mr Turnbull questioned how Mr Porter could accept the money in good faith.
> ...



Malcolm Turnbull has turned into a whiteant, with even less respect (except from the nematodes on the left).


----------



## sptrawler (15 September 2021)

wayneL said:


> Malcolm Turnbull has turned into a whiteant, with even less respect (except from the nematodes on the left).



Turnbull is a wretched ghost he really is a piece of work, he and Rudd would make a great tag team IMO.
But with regard Porter, I would have thought he has an obligation, as a standing politician, to declare who is giving him donations.
It could be seen as a bribe, I can't see how he wont have to disclose it.


----------



## basilio (15 September 2021)

sptrawler said:


> But with regard Porter, I would have thought he has an obligation, as a standing politician, to declare who is giving him donations.
> It could be seen as a bribe, I can't see how he wont have to disclose it.




*Ok. Spot on*.  It is beyond comprehension that a politician can accept such a donation for exactly the reasons you outline.

Why therefore are you attacking Malcolm Turnball for pointing out the legal and ethical problems of the deal ?


----------



## wayneL (15 September 2021)

basilio said:


> *Ok. Spot on*.  It is beyond comprehension that a politician can accept such a donation for exactly the reasons you outline.
> 
> Why therefore are you attacking Malcolm Turnball for pointing out the legal and ethical problems of the deal ?




Because that is the job of the opposition. You would never find members of the Labor Party exposing each other's transgressions, but because Malcolm Turnbull is, was and always will be, a Manchurian candidate. He sees his job as destroying the party which has taken him in.

In other words, his motives are absolutely toxic and not in the interests of integrity, but rather, revenge and in keeping with his agenda of taking Australia to the authoritarian left, rather than the classical liberalism that the Liberal Party was founded on.

A c"£# of the highest order.

If porter has done the wrong thing, fine, call him out. But it is well past time to pretend that Malcolm is any part of the centre right/classical liberal values that the Liberal Party supposedly espouses.

It is time to recognise that Malcolm is of the authoritarian left.... And as indicated above, a Manchurian candidate.

Fwiw, the Liberal Party has a multitude of issues on which it should be called out for, as indicated I will  putting them second last on my voting card... unless of course there is both a labour and green candidate, in which case I will be putting them third last.

The most laughableble thing is that the purulent left pretends that this doesn't happen on their own side of politics..


----------



## sptrawler (15 September 2021)

basilio said:


> Why therefore are you attacking Malcolm Turnball for pointing out the legal and ethical problems of the deal ?



I have always disliked Turnbull, he just isn't my cup of tea, so to speak, way too narcissistic IMO.
Also being disloyal to your former comrades , no matter what your leaning, isn't a good look.
There are plenty of opponents and media reps who can callout Porter, turning traitor isn't a good reflection on the ex leader and probably highlights one of his personality traits that resulted in him being turfed out IMO.
Porter is toast, I would be very surprised if he contests the next election, the non disclosure of both the donor and the supressed ABC info has destroyed any remaining credibility IMO.


Turnbull would be much better served, taking his own council and moving away from politics quietly. 
All that Turnbull is doing is underlying the possibility that it is media attention that he craves, maybe that was always first and foremost for him throughout his political career, who knows, it seems to be the driver of a few ex P.M's IMO.









						Malcolm Turnbull says Rudd and Abbott 'like miserable ghosts'
					

Former prime minister says he will not hang around like his predecessors, and it is important not to be driven by hate




					www.theguardian.com
				



From the article:
Turnbull said he would not be a “trappist monk” now he was out of parliament, but it was important not to be driven by hate.

“When you stop being prime minister, that’s it,” he said. “There is no way I’d be hanging around like embittered Kevin Rudd or Tony Abbott. Seriously, these people are like, sort of miserable, miserable ghosts.”


----------



## The Triangle (15 September 2021)

Porter may be forced out over blind trust
					

Speculation is mounting that Christian Porter could depart the frontbench over his decision to use a blind trust to pay his legal fees with cabinet ministers revealing they were “blindsided” by the decision.




					www.news.com.au
				




Scott Morrison is an embarrassment to democracy. The Prime Minister does not need to ‘ask’ if it’s right or wrong what Porter did taking money from a blind trust. It’s ethically wrong and the Prime Minister should declare it’s wrong and ensure laws and rules are changed and the liberals should kick Porters a** to the kerb.  I'd take back Rudd, Abbott, even Julia over this fool.  

Years ago women couldn’t vote. It was the law. It was wrong. Just because it’s the law doesn’t mean it’s acceptable.


----------



## basilio (15 September 2021)

*PRESS RELEASE, *

*Rachit and Rune Solicitors*
*Caymen Islands*

Today the Honourable Christian Porter has introduced  a daring, stunning and innovative development of Blind Legal Trusts to ensure integrity in our political system. It is absolutely paramount that Australia's  political system should be free from any suggestion of impropriety. The Blind Legal Trust, which was developed and is currently managed by Rachit and Rune, will ensure public confidence in the independence and fair mindedness of our politicians.

To ensure that all public political figures are on an even keel, Rachit and Rune will be rolling out an extension of the Blind Legal Trust format that will cover all State and Federal Politicians. Every politician will be given a Blind Trust account which will be noted on their Registry of Interests. All donations will be made anonymously  through our Caymen Island offices and will be open  to every citizen determined to support the best governance possible for our vibrant democracy.

Rachit and Rune offers exceptional security on all our legal operations but particularly the new "Blind Trust" operation.  We  can guarantee there will no inappropriate access to the sacred privacy of these Trusts.  The Firms extensive international business clientele  can attest to the rigorous security procedures we have in place. These clients have already expressed  keen interest in supporting the "Blind Trust" project for Australia's politicians as a way of ensuring the best governance for Australia.

Rachit and Rune believes this model  of transparent public support for our leaders could be extended to other areas of Governance.  Judges, Senior Public Service appointees, Local Government officials could be included in future rollouts of "Blind Trust". We envisage that, with sufficient public support for our elected leaders, Governments can reduce the  economic burden of  the current Parliamentary salaries to minimal amounts.

We believe this is an unparalleled opportunity to ensure Australians of every political persuasion can offer the  practical recognition our political class needs to do our county proud. 

Ken Rachit, Al Rune .  Partners in law.


----------



## sptrawler (15 September 2021)

The Triangle said:


> Porter may be forced out over blind trust
> 
> 
> Speculation is mounting that Christian Porter could depart the frontbench over his decision to use a blind trust to pay his legal fees with cabinet ministers revealing they were “blindsided” by the decision.
> ...



I agree in principal, however it would be wrong of the P.M to not to seek legal advice, that would put him in a compromised situation. What will be interesting will be his response, when he does get a directive, then if he doesn't act it will tar him with the same brush.

From your media link.
Prime Minister Scott Morrison has sought urgent advice on whether the “blind trust” arrangement being used by Liberal frontbencher Christian Porter to fund his legal bills is in breach of the ministerial code of conduct.
“The Prime Minister is seeking advice from his department on any implications for the Ministerial Standards and any actions the Minister must take to ensure that he meets the Standards.”


----------



## Knobby22 (15 September 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I agree in principal, however it would be wrong of the P.M to not to seek legal advice, that would put him in a compromised situation. What will be interesting will be his response, when he does get a directive, then if he doesn't act it will tar him with the same brush.
> 
> From your media link.
> Prime Minister Scott Morrison has sought urgent advice on whether the “blind trust” arrangement being used by Liberal frontbencher Christian Porter to fund his legal bills is in breach of the ministerial code of conduct.
> “The Prime Minister is seeking advice from his department on any implications for the Ministerial Standards and any actions the Minister must take to ensure that he meets the Standards.”



The PM is giving Porter a chance to get out of this. Smart thing to do.
Porter will need to get permission from the donor. My guess Gina Reinhardt. If she doesn't agree I don't know what Morrison's next step will be.


----------



## The Triangle (16 September 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I agree in principal, however it would be wrong of the P.M to not to seek legal advice, that would put him in a compromised situation. What will be interesting will be his response, when he does get a directive, then if he doesn't act it will tar him with the same brush.
> 
> From your media link.
> Prime Minister Scott Morrison has sought urgent advice on whether the “blind trust” arrangement being used by Liberal frontbencher Christian Porter to fund his legal bills is in breach of the ministerial code of conduct.
> “The Prime Minister is seeking advice from his department on any implications for the Ministerial Standards and any actions the Minister must take to ensure that he meets the Standards.”



You dont need legal advice to tell you something is morally and ethically wrong.  Just like you don't need your wife to tell you raping women is wrong because you have daughters. 

This clown needs to stand up for something in life.  Drain the swamp.


----------



## sptrawler (16 September 2021)

The Triangle said:


> You dont need legal advice to tell you something is morally and ethically wrong.  Just like you don't need your wife to tell you raping women is wrong because you have daughters.
> 
> This clown needs to stand up for something in life.  Drain the swamp.



You still have to go through due process, otherwise you end up with another banana republic. Which when we do become a republic, we will no doubt descend into anyway. 🤣
If there has been rules broken, he should be thrown out, but I doubt accepting donations, is a criminal offence.
But your example, shows why due process has to be followed, otherwise ridiculous parallel's are drawn and lynch mobs start up.
Isn't shooting from the hip, one of the traits that you guys blasted Trump for, now people are encouraging our P.M to shoot from the hip.
I guess it just shows, the issue and the person, is more important, than the principle of processes and procedures.

By the way if we drained the swamp, Canberra would become a ghost town.


----------



## sptrawler (16 September 2021)

Interesting comments by the U.S and U.K, regarding the subs and what looks like a new alliance between Australia, the U.S and U.K.








						'A new era': Australia to acquire nuclear submarines as part of historic 'AUKUS' alliance to counter China's influence
					

In a bid to counter China's growing regional influence, Australia joins a historic partnership with the US and UK to acquire nuclear submarines.




					www.abc.net.au
				



From the article:
In a joint statement, the three leaders said *AUKUS* would also leverage UK and US expertise to bring cyber, artificial intelligence and quantum computing capabilities to Australia.

Thanking "that fellow Down Under", US President Joe Biden said the new partnership would ensure the three countries had the most modern capabilities to defend against "rapid threats".

"We're taking another historic step to deepen and formalise cooperation among all three of our nations, because we all recognise the imperative of ensuring peace and stability in the Indo-Pacific over the long-term," Mr Biden said.



> "We need to be able to address both the current strategic environment in the region and how it may evolve, because the future of each of our nations, and indeed the world, depends on a free and open Indo-Pacific."



The leaders said they aimed to "bring an Australian [nuclear submarine] capability into service at the earliest achievable date".

Also from the Guardian.








						US, UK and Australia forge military alliance to counter China
					

Aukus partnership will enable Australia to have nuclear-powered submarines for the first time




					www.theguardian.com
				




Before now, the US has only shared its nuclear propulsion technology with the UK, in an arrangement dating back to 1958, but a senior US official said “This is a unique set of circumstances.”

Nuclear power will allow Australian attack submarines to remain at sea for as long as five months and operate more quietly than the country’s existing Collins class diesel powered vessels, allowing them to better evade enemy detection.


----------



## Humid (16 September 2021)

At least we got the right jet fighters


----------



## Humid (16 September 2021)

Knobby22 said:


> The PM is giving Porter a chance to get out of this. Smart thing to do.
> Porter will need to get permission from the donor. My guess Gina Reinhardt. If she doesn't agree I don't know what Morrison's next step will be.



Im thinking wrong iron ore company


----------



## orr (17 September 2021)

You take your joys where you can ...And the view looking down is;
Porters political career as  the turd in the bowl slowly steeping waiting for the flush.
Not even the 'spending more time with the family' trope will cut it. Their the amung many that want him least.

For those  'Bananas' proffering the 'idea'? that top level cabinet ministers accepting many multiple Hundred thou$and dollar donations from 'anonymous' donors is 'OK'; if it's _within the rules_....???
 welll.... best of luck with the democracy they want to live in.. Best you reach for a dictionary and find the meaning of Plutocracy & Kleptocracy.... Marfia state  also comes to mine.

It's the strength of your Institutions that make for the bedrock of anything that resembles even a half decent society... No surprises as to why Porter  & Schmo see a Federal ICAC as '_kryptonite_'.


----------



## sptrawler (17 September 2021)

orr said:


> You take your joys where you can ...And the view looking down is;
> Porters political career as  the turd in the bowl slowly steeping waiting for the flush.
> Not even the 'spending more time with the family' trope will cut it. Their the amung many that want him least.
> 
> ...



Good summation @orr .
Porters toast and I'm pretty sure anonymous donations aren't o.k.


----------



## sptrawler (17 September 2021)

orr said:


> You take your joys where you can ...And the view looking down is;
> Porters political career as  the turd in the bowl slowly steeping waiting for the flush.
> Not even the 'spending more time with the family' trope will cut it. Their the amung many that want him least.
> 
> ...



Actually, Albo nails it in this article. 🤣 


			Minister's blind trust issue serious: PM
		

From the article:
Opposition Leader Anthony Albanese argues accepting money from unknown sources makes his job untenable.

"There is such a stench around this and around Christian Porter. All that is missing is a cloud of blowflies. This stinks," Mr Albanese said.


----------



## sptrawler (19 September 2021)

As we said, Porter is toast, done, gone.








						Minister forced to resign from cabinet over 'secret' donation
					

Prime Minister Scott Morrison has accepted the resignation of Christian Porter from the government ministry.




					au.news.yahoo.com
				



From the article:
Mr Porter will remain in parliament and a member of the Coalition government but will move to the backbench. It is unclear at this moment if he will contest the coming federal election.


----------



## Knobby22 (19 September 2021)

sptrawler said:


> As we said, Porter is toast, done, gone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I read his record as a Minister.
Even without this incident he has been a failure, achieving nothing of note and failing to progress the corruption commission. 

I am sure his removal will be a plus for Scomo as now he can put someone better in.


----------



## sptrawler (19 September 2021)

Knobby22 said:


> I read his record as a Minister.
> Even without this incident he has been a failure, achieving nothing of note and failing to progress the corruption commission.
> 
> I am sure his removal will be a plus for Scomo as now he can put someone better in.



You know you have got problems, when Dutton is outperforming you. 🤣
He certainly has proven, just because someone performs well at the minor league, doesn't mean they will perform well in the major league.


----------



## SirRumpole (19 September 2021)

Knobby22 said:


> I am sure his removal will be a plus for Scomo as now he can put someone better in.




Such people are hard to find in the Liberal Party.


----------



## basilio (20 September 2021)

Shane Dowling's Kangaroo Court website is always interesting.

Just saw a story going deeper into the reasons why ScoMo was sacked as  by John Howard in 2006 as Managing Director of Tourism Australia. 









						Scott Morrison calls on John Howard to lie about why he was sacked from Tourism Australia but the lie doesn’t explain why he was also sacked from Tourism NZ
					

Scott Morrison was sacked as Managing Director of Tourism Australia in 2006 by the John Howard government and since that time no one would say why. But now John Howard is quoted […]




					kangaroocourtofaustralia.com


----------



## sptrawler (20 September 2021)

basilio said:


> Shane Dowling's Kangaroo Court website is always interesting.
> 
> Just saw a story going deeper into the reasons why ScoMo was sacked as  by John Howard in 2006 as Managing Director of Tourism Australia.
> 
> ...



Interesting Bas, just read the article and I can't see where he his accused of lying or asking someone to lie, maybe another defamation case in the wings?
Sounds like he was sacked, because he didn't get on with the tourism minister, I don't think that would be a first.
Maybe you have more info and or insight?
But I can understand the mob has moved on, which is good, it keeps the pollies on their toes. 
As I always say, the truth has a way of coming out and most things are self resolving.
It is also good that some of these bloggers bring issues up, as long as they not running a personal agenda, Dowling from memory had a bit to say about the Shorten rape accusations. So at least he isn't being one sided.


----------



## basilio (20 September 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Interesting Bas, just read the article and I can't see where he his accused of lying or asking someone to lie, maybe another defamation case in the wings?
> Sounds like he was sacked, because he didn't get on with the tourism minister, I don't think that would be a first.
> Maybe you have more info and or insight?




The Kangaroo Court story is actually referencing another journalistic expose by The Saturday Paper.  That is the story which explores why ScoMo was sacked in the first place.



_Thirteen years after Scott Morrison was mysteriously sacked from a senior public sector job as managing director of Tourism Australia, a six-month investigation by The Saturday Paper has created the clearest picture yet of the events surrounding his dismissal.

Documents obtained by The Saturday Paper under freedom of information laws show Morrison received a pay rise less than a month before he was sacked, taking his annual base salary from $318,031 to $332,030, with discretion for his employer to add up to 2.5 percent on top.

Around the time of Morrison’s dismissal, it was suggested he was paid out after having his contract terminated more than a year early. Sources have since confirmed this.

It was long speculated that the sacking was the result of a personality clash between Morrison and Bailey or differences over her plans to restructure the agency.

But late last year, The Saturday Paper uncovered an auditor-general’s report from 2008 examining the handling of three major contracts, which had delivered a scathing assessment of Tourism Australia’s management.

The report provided the first indication as to the real reason Morrison was removed._
*
The contracts were worth $184 million, and the auditor focused most on the two biggest – those with companies M&C Saatchi for global creative services or advertising campaigns, and Carat for media placement.

The audit report revealed that information had been kept from the board, procurement guidelines breached and private companies engaged before paperwork was signed and without appropriate value-for-money assessments.*

_Both before and since becoming prime minister in August last year, Scott Morrison has refused to answer questions about why the tourism minister took the unusual step in July 2006 of sacking him as head of the agency. He has also refused to answer questions about the handling of the contracts, which were signed the previous year. He did not respond to questions for this story before time of press._ 









						Scott Morrison calls on John Howard to lie about why he was sacked from Tourism Australia but the lie doesn’t explain why he was also sacked from Tourism NZ
					

Scott Morrison was sacked as Managing Director of Tourism Australia in 2006 by the John Howard government and since that time no one would say why. But now John Howard is quoted […]




					kangaroocourtofaustralia.com


----------



## sptrawler (20 September 2021)

Well this will be interesting, maybe it explains the subs? 
I still can't see, where he asked John Howard to lie?
One thing though I think the way things are looking ATM, this will be the last thing on peoples minds. 
Things are starting to look very ugly on the markets IMO.


----------



## PZ99 (21 September 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Well this will be interesting, maybe it explains the subs?
> I still can't see, where he asked John Howard to lie?
> One thing though I think the way things are looking ATM, this will be the last thing on peoples minds.
> Things are starting to look very ugly on the markets IMO.



I reckon it should be the first thing on peoples' minds if we go into another downturn with a trillion dollar debt.

I just don't think buying subs of any sort is economic sense for Australia given they are unlikely to be used in combat.


----------



## moXJO (21 September 2021)

PZ99 said:


> I reckon it should be the first thing on peoples' minds if we go into another downturn with a trillion dollar debt.
> 
> I just don't think buying subs of any sort is economic sense for Australia given they are unlikely to be used in combat.



Australian having nuke subs without actual nukes just means an expensive mess in our backyard. Scomo has basically p1ssed all our trading partners off over the last two years. Considering the size of our debt, we need trade more than war.


----------



## basilio (22 September 2021)

*A Statement About Our Donation To Christian Porter’s Blind Trust* 








Well, that turned out well. A few weeks back we decided to transfer $1 million into the blind trust we’d set up for Christian Porter. Yesterday he resigned. We’ll be honest, we didn’t expect it to work quite so quickly.

After all, you have to clear a pretty high bar to get sacked from a Scott Morrison cabinet. An accusation of sexual assault won’t do it. Cocking up a vaccine rollout in a pandemic won’t do it. Allegedly doctoring documents to discredit the Sydney Lord Mayor won’t do it (actually, that will get you a promotion).                                                                               

But, as we now know, receiving money from a satirical organisation is where the line is drawn. The truth is, Christian Porter actually knew all along that a satirical news service was funding his defence. But he thought it was News Corp, not us, which is why he went along with it. Whoops!

Australian comedy, as you all know, is incredibly lucrative. But even for us, a million dollars was a large sum. So thanks to everyone who has chipped in as a supporter over the years. I think you’ll agree, it was well worth it.

The Shovel
______________________________________________

_Running satirical news organisations can be expensive, especially when it involves paying large sums of money into the blind trusts of government ministers. If you’d like to support our work, you might consider making a donation or becoming a regular supporter._


----------



## basilio (23 September 2021)

Couldn't resist this take on the ScoMo government.

*PM To Seek Advice From Christian Porter About Whether Christian Porter Breached Ministerial Standards                *







Scott Morrison says he is concerned about whether Christian Porter’s blind trust has breached Ministerial Standards and will seek further advice from the former Attorney General on the issue.

Mr Porter received up to $1 million from an unknown donor to cover legal costs, leading to concerns he may be open to blackmail, bribery or benefiting from proceeds of crime. The PM said he took the matter seriously and wanted to seek independent advice.                                 

“And Mr Porter has assured me he can remain independent,” the PM explained. “This is a man who is a former lawyer and a former Attorney General for goodness sake. He has shown throughout his career that he has fine judgement.

“What we don’t want to do is be getting other people involved in this whole process unnecessarily. Everyone’s busy enough as it is. *Our philosophy in this government all along has been that the best person to investigate wrongdoing is the person accused of that wrongdoing. I mean, it makes sense. Obviously they know more about it than anyone!”*

Mr Morrison said he would ensure the investigation was conducted at arm’s length. “Christian is a pretty tall guy. He has very long arms, so I don’t think this will be a problem for him.* I have a lot of faith in Mr Porter, or as he likes to call it, blind trust”.









						PM To Seek Advice From Christian Porter About Whether Christian Porter Breached Ministerial Standards
					

"I have a lot of faith in Mr Porter, or as he likes to call it, blind trust”.




					www.theshovel.com.au
				



*


----------



## sptrawler (24 September 2021)

Now we are approaching the election, the stance on zero preferably by 2050 , is slowly turning. 









						‘Markets are moving’: Frydenberg says Australia cannot be left behind on net zero by 2050
					

Treasurer Josh Frydenberg warns Australia cannot be left behind as global markets shift to support moves to cut greenhouse gas emissions to net zero by 2050.




					www.smh.com.au
				



From the article:
“Australia has a lot at stake. We cannot run the risk that markets falsely assume we are not transitioning in line with the rest of the world.”

Mr Frydenberg will back the goal of net zero emissions by 2050 on the grounds it is already factored into financial markets as well as being endorsed by most major economies as part of the Paris agreement by United Nations members on climate change.

“Markets are moving as governments, regulators, central banks and investors are preparing for a lower emissions future,” he says


----------



## IFocus (21 October 2021)

Remember when Rudd spent $40 bil to get Australia through the GFC " go early go retail" gave it all to Australians you know the mug punters.

You know pink batts and school halls etc what a waste. 

Remember the screams of the grandchildren and great grand children having to pay it back?

So the Coalition solved that problem and just gave $40 bil to profitable company's mostly foreign owned.

Silence, crickets....


Business whispers: how Treasurer Josh Frydenberg squandered $40bn on JobKeeper​It turns out the very business lobbyists who stood to benefit most from JobKeeper were regularly advising the Government on JobKeeper. Callum Foote and Michael West report how $40bn was squandered and the role of corporate spinners Business Council of Australia and AI Group.​











						Business whispers: how Treasurer Josh Frydenberg squandered $40bn on JobKeeper - Michael West Media
					

It turns out the very business lobbyists who stood to benefit most from JobKeeper were regularly advising the Government on JobKeeper




					www.michaelwest.com.au


----------



## SirRumpole (21 October 2021)

IFocus said:


> Remember when Rudd spent $40 bil to get Australia through the GFC " go early go retail" gave it all to Australians you know the mug punters.
> 
> You know pink batts and school halls etc what a waste.
> 
> ...



Really ?

Next they will be having social security recipients advising on welfare policy.


----------



## Humid (21 October 2021)

'This government has trashed transparency': Geoffrey Watson says there are a number of questions that need answering
					

A broad inquiry into politicians' use of funds from anonymous donors to pay legal bills will be established, after the government blocked a move to investigate Liberal MP Christian Porter's decision to do so.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## basilio (22 October 2021)

*         Morrison says holding inquiry into Porter’s blind trust would be slippery slope towards politicians being held accountable for actions            *






Scott Morrison has defended his government’s decision to block an investigation into Christian Porter’s blind trust, saying it would set a precedent for political transparency.

Speaking at a media conference today, a defensive Mr Morrison said a line had to be drawn. “It’s a slippery slope. You allow this to go through, next thing you know people will expect politicians to be upfront about everything. That’s not sustainable.                                                                                                              
“We need to be very careful here. Because once you investigate whether receiving a bag full of money from an unknown source is a bit dodgy, then all of a sudden you might be forced to find out whether I knew about bribes to marginal electorates, or why we paid 10 times too much for a piece of land owned by a mate, or why we’re obsessed with the coal industry.

“You have to think of the implications of something like this. You create a culture of transparency and next thing you know, you learn that those photos of me cooking curry are 100% fabricated and I actually played no part at all in prepar … oh ****, sorry, I wasn’t supposed to say that”.









						Morrison says holding inquiry into Porter’s blind trust would be slippery slope towards politicians being held accountable for actions
					

"It would set a ridiculous precedent for political transparency"




					www.theshovel.com.au


----------



## basilio (24 October 2021)

*"Maguire International Shooting Centre of Excellence"*

Was having a chat over the weekend with another ASF poster on the potential risks of defaming politicians with posts from satirical websites. Of course in many cases the "satire" is in fact uncomfortably close to the reality of what , in fact , is happening. It's just done with a smile .  

The above headline could easily be a quote from The  Shovel (would not surprise me if it happens ). But in fact it comes from senior pubic servants in NSW attempting to deal with the  zealous determination of Daryl McGuire and then  Treasurer/ recently  Premier Gladys  Berejiklian to approve a $5.5m grant  for a shooting club in Wagga Wagga.

ICAC is questioning, *in public*,  the public servants who were responsible for judging the appropriateness of grant submissions to the NSW government.  In effect an open look at the sausage factory  of democracy. Absolutely highlights why a body like ICAC is invaluable in keeping governments honest and accountable. 

*It also highlights why the  Morrison Government is doing everything it can to strangle such a Federal body at birth.*










						ICAC hears how a grant supported by almost nobody was approved
					

This much seems clear from the first week of hearings before the ICAC: A $5.5 million grant pursued by the former NSW member of parliament, Daryl Maguire, for a shooting club in his electorate, was supported by almost nobody in the bureaucracy.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## Humid (26 October 2021)

SLUSH FUND THEY WANT YOU TO BE BLIND TO! “Alleged rapist” Christian Porter believed to have received help from billionaires, disgraced lawyers & even News Corp journalist Paul Kelly
					

EXCLUSIVE: A coterie of powerful billionaires, prominent News Corp journalists, and a disgraced lawyer who was once charged and then acquitted over his own wife’s murder, as well as conservative or…




					truecrimenewsweekly.com


----------



## rederob (3 November 2021)

There are so many things wrong with this approach:


Most obvious is the fact that the IPCC has many times laid out what needs to be done, so Scomo's undertaking to follow what science proposes has been ignored for his whole term in office.
I don't know if Scomo will be better remembered for bringing  lump of coal into parliament, or for promising to do nothing.
Back to his COP26 talk: Scomo says (@ 1:55) that raising the cost of energy most impacts on those who can afford it least.  Unfortunately those least well off don't have the energy to begin with, and renewables have been a saviour as they bypass the need for infrastructure.  Moreover, energy prices are decreasing via renewables so what on earth is talking about.
Scomo goes on to talk about fostering the adoption of renewables, but actually has no policies to support this view.  We instead rebate diesel fuel users to the tune of billions of dollars annually and are also fostering CCS to the tune of hundreds of millions.
I did however like his Freudian slip @ 4:10.


----------



## sptrawler (3 November 2021)

@rederob fair comments and post this COP26 talk, it will become obvious that the nationals and liberals will have to come to a consensus on the way forward, it is becoming obvious that a global carbon tax is imminent and pretending that it wont ain't going to cut it.
So both sides of politics had better get a plan together, because our meat exports our coal exports our iron ore exports are going to get a tax applied, unless they come up with a plan.
At least we don't have to worry about our manufactured goods getting taxed, we don't export hamburgers and lattes. 😂
As @SirRumpole said a while back, whichever side comes up with the best plan, will no doubt walk away with the 2022 election cup.
For once I'm actually not worried who wins the election, both sides of politics have the same issues to resolve, whereas in the past they could decide what was important or indulge in petty nastiness.


----------



## wayneL (3 November 2021)

sptrawler said:


> For once I'm actually not worried who wins the election, both sides of politics have the same issues to resolve,




I actually highly alarmed if either wins. Both are a disaster and will herald the death of our liberal democracy.

Our only chance is if the more libertarian minors hold the bop in the Senate.


----------



## Humid (4 November 2021)

wayneL said:


> I actually highly alarmed if either wins. Both are a disaster and will herald the death of our liberal democracy.
> 
> Our only chance is if the more libertarian minors hold the bop in the Senate.



Have you thought about taking to the streets of Midland on horseback.....buy a bell too


----------



## IFocus (4 November 2021)

Federal Governance desperately needs a serious ICAC, that wont happen under a Coalition that's currently ridden with corrupt behaviour undermining Australian democracy.

If Labor get up (I am not really expecting it at this stage) that's really their only job which will secure democracy for the future


----------



## SirRumpole (4 November 2021)

IFocus said:


> Federal Governance desperately needs a serious ICAC, that wont happen under a Coalition that's currently ridden with corrupt behaviour undermining Australian democracy.
> 
> If Labor get up (I am not really expecting it at this stage) that's really their only job which will secure democracy for the future




It may be a condition of satisfying some Independants holding the balance of power.


----------



## sptrawler (4 November 2021)

IFocus said:


> If Labor get up (I am not really expecting it at this stage) that's really their only job which will secure democracy for the future



Why do you think that IFocus, I think Albo has done a good job of keeping Labor under the radar and the Morrison Government have bounced from disaster to disaster, I would have thought Labor were a shoe in.
The only thing I can see as a down side for Labor, is the time frame to get their message across is becoming tight, other than that I can't see a problem especially with the impetus toward climate change action.


----------



## SirRumpole (4 November 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Why do you think that IFocus, I think Albo has done a good job of keeping Labor under the radar and the Morrison Government have bounced from disaster to disaster, I would have thought Labor were a shoe in.
> The only thing I can see as a down side for Labor, is the time frame to get their message across is becoming tight, other than that I can't see a problem especially with the impetus toward climate change action.




If Labor can't win the next election after all the things that Morrison has botched, they had better pack their bags and go into advertising.


----------



## sptrawler (4 November 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> If Labor can't win the next election after all the things that Morrison has botched, they had better pack their bags and go into advertising.



That is so true, if they have a bad loss, they should consider forming a coalition with the greens, but I don't think they will lose.
There is way too much going their way, the coalition have been in longer than normal, they are looking burnt out and inside squabbling is stating to show through, add to that the Porter fiasco and it really is a shambles.


----------



## wayneL (4 November 2021)

Humid said:


> Have you thought about taking to the streets of Midland on horseback.....buy a bell too



No I haven't, and I don't quite understand why I would.

See you at the ballot box.


----------



## PZ99 (4 November 2021)

The only way Labor can win the election is to publicly declare their opposition to Clive Palmers' death taxes


----------



## sptrawler (4 November 2021)

PZ99 said:


> The only way Labor can win the election is to publicly declare their opposition to Clive Palmers' death taxes



Someone with better computer skills than I, should start a thread "2022 election" and start a blind poll, it would be interesting to see how feelings fall on the forum, there seems to be a good cross section of people.
Maybe @Joe Blow might think it appropriate? For a bit of side interest, it also might keep a lot of threads uncluttered with election too and fro ing.
Maybe the poll could allow people to change their selection, as their decisions change, I don't know how hard the coding would be for an option like that?


----------



## IFocus (5 November 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Why do you think that IFocus, I think Albo has done a good job of keeping Labor under the radar and the Morrison Government have bounced from disaster to disaster, I would have thought Labor were a shoe in.
> The only thing I can see as a down side for Labor, is the time frame to get their message across is becoming tight, other than that I can't see a problem especially with the impetus toward climate change action.





In terms of a pure political player / actor I rate Morrison as one of the best and would never write him off.

Rating him and his government based on performance, action and policy pretty much a failure and another lost term along with Abbott and Turnbull. 

Giving $40 bil to profitable company's (biggest transfer of wealth from tax payers to corporate / company's ever) after pursuing the weakest in our society, welfare recipients (ROBO debt, was it 2000 suicides?) and removing penalty rates from the lowest paid is a hell of a record.

Abbott and Costello couldn't even pass a budget (dumber and dumber) and what was it Turnbull did again?


----------



## basilio (12 November 2021)

ScoMo has introduced a couple of important new catch phrases to the political lexicon.
"The Australian Way" is the new "Can-do Capitalism" that is going to magically turn CC on it's tracks . 

Indeed but what is "Can-do Capitalism" ?   Let's see...

*Can-do capitalism: an explainer      * 







An innovative new form of capitalism, known as ‘can-do capitalism’, works by providing large tax-payer funded government subsidies to industries that would otherwise not exist in an open market.

*An economist who spoke to The Shovel said a recent example of the new economic system – a $600 million gas plant that nobody asked for – illustrates how can-do capitalism works. “An investor, in this case the government, determines where future demand will be highest. It then ignores that opportunity, and instead assigns funds to a different industry that is threatening to withdraw party donations. It’s just a different way of thinking about the word ‘demand’,” he said.                * 

He said there were some other important differences when compared with the traditional system.  “Unlike normal capitalism, which relies on market forces to determine the allocation of resources, *can-do capitalism uses an advanced form of resource allocation known as ‘corruption’. The technique has been used to determine where key infrastructure – such as roads and sporting grounds – should be built”.*

Another difference is the way prices are set. “Prices under this system can be higher, particularly if it’s for a parcel of land owned by the mate of a government minister”.

Can-do capitalism also has its own way of dealing with externalities, like greenhouse gas emissions. Instead of using a market-based system, such as a carbon price or trading scheme, it funds the polluters directly.









						Can-do capitalism: an explainer
					

It uses an advanced form of resource allocation known as ‘corruption’.




					www.theshovel.com.au


----------



## sptrawler (12 November 2021)

The really funny thing is @basilio , you and I are hoping on can do capitalism to make money, with FMG and hydrogen.
So are you hoping on a home goal? 🤣
I mean really, do you think through your reasoning?


----------



## SirRumpole (13 November 2021)

basilio said:


> ScoMo has introduced a couple of important new catch phrases to the political lexicon.
> "The Australian Way" is the new "Can-do Capitalism" that is going to magically turn CC on it's tracks .
> 
> Indeed but what is "Can-do Capitalism" ?   Let's see...
> ...




While recognising the satire of this article, seriously if you leave things to the private sector, they end up owning everything and can therefore threaten the government to give them whatever they want or they will walk away, like the company that owned Hazelwood did, 25% of Victoria's power supply was gone overnight.

Government are hear for the long term and their survival depends on satisfying the consumers and voters , not shareholders.

ScoMo is running crony capitalism, favour your friends and starve your enemies, we deserve something better than that.


----------



## sptrawler (13 November 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> While recognising the satire of this article, seriously if you leave things to the private sector, they end up owning everything and can therefore threaten the government to give them whatever they want or they will walk away, like the company that owned Hazelwood did, 25% of Victoria's power supply was gone overnight.
> 
> Government are hear for the long term and their survival depends on satisfying the consumers and voters , not shareholders.
> 
> ScoMo is running crony capitalism, favour your friends and starve your enemies, we deserve something better than that.



Even in W.A , Victoria and Queensland, which are labor States, they are encouraging the private sector to develop the H2 industry, there is no way the taxpayer could afford to fund the amount needed, taxes would have to go through the roof.
The private generators, were given the opportunity to invest in new generation and refused, so the Feds are encroaching further into the private sector generation market, with Kurri Kurri and Snowy 2.0, the Tassie State Government is also joining in by increasing their output so in reality the private generators are being squeezed.
McGowan, who IMO is doing a great job, is encouraging private sector investment, what are you suggesting the Feds can do differently?
Seriously Rumpy I'm really interested, because I can't see what the Feds can do other than encourage private sector investment, without increasing taxes a lot.
Even taking Labors suggestion, of reducing the taxes on BEV's, that apparently will only drop the price by $2,000, which really isn't going to improve the affordability for low income and pensioners etc.
The fact is, it is only the likes of FMG, BHP, RIO, WES, WPL,WOW, the Banks etc reducing their carbon footprint and also investing in things like hydrogen production, that is going to change the way we live.
The amount of H2 required to be produced to replace fossil fuel, is absolutely mind boggling, there is no way taxpayers could possibly have any effect on the amount required and the money required, I think I read the other day Twiggy is taking about $130 trillion being invested in renewables over the coming years, even in Australia it will work out into the hundreds of billions.IMO


----------



## basilio (13 November 2021)

sptrawler said:


> The really funny thing is @basilio , you and I are hoping on can do capitalism to make money, with FMG and hydrogen.
> So are you hoping on a home goal? 🤣
> I mean really, do you think through your reasoning?




SP I very much think through my reasoning - and on dealing with CC it is  absolutely razor sharp.
The contempt thrown at ScoMo in that piece of satire highlights a  number of intersecting  issues.

1) The absolute BS of the government in pretending  it is doing something about CC when  they literally have no cogent policy beyone a vague belief that technology will save the day.  And then at the same time Angus Tayor and co are  supporting and encouraging the gas industry which will spew out millions of tons more CO2 and trying to pretend the Carbon Capture technology is some sort of salve. 

2) The second issue is the open corruption of the Government in allocation of grants to favoured electorates as well as grants to support financial backers.

I'm cheerfully schizophrenic about CC. I have to keep some sense of hope (even though it does like like xhite)  because otherwise life would all be a complete downer. In that context I see Twiggy as a very clear eyed and determined entrepreneur who understands how dangerous CC is and can see a critical part of the solution in a business that he can create and make a buck out of.

He also recognises the importance of  leadership to make these things happen. But of course you also need  seed capital,   great engineering skills,  strong planning and plenty of development capital to see it through.  In that context  there is "Can-do Capitalism" in action.


----------



## orr (13 November 2021)

Tragically Bas....
There certainly will not be anything that looks like 'Can-do-Government' what we have is Schmo's 'Can-SNAFU-government'...
The crony-capitalist handouts to Murdoch... \
The Bone-out of AGL by Frydenberg
The agririan-solcialists  of the NATs' with their retiement plans sorted by the mining industry.  See.; Anderson, McFarlin, and that dildo in charge of WhiteHaven, Ahh Barnaby how the bossom of Gina beckons; plenty more  too....
Ohh and while where in the coalition old peoples home ; Coonan at Crown...

poor old trawler "_I can't see what the Feds can do"_..lost in some aplogists wilderness with no understanding of the importance of the Federal Governments capacity to set policy enabling investment certainty  to the  private sector and everything that flows from it. ...... and likes these people vote; and invest?????   it'd make a cat laugh.....


----------



## sptrawler (13 November 2021)

orr said:


> Tragically Bas....
> There certainly will not be anything that looks like 'Can-do-Government' what we have is Schmo's 'Can-SNAFU-government'...
> The crony-capitalist handouts to Murdoch... \
> The Bone-out of AGL by Frydenberg
> ...



Well @basilio and @orr  enlighten me, as to what the Federal Government whether Labor or Liberal can do? Without committing billions in taxpayers money, which in the end the private sector can stump up anyway.
The Feds could subsidies BEV's, which would make it cheaper for those who can already afford one, the poor still wont be able to.
The Feds can put the tax up on fossil fuel, which again will hurt those who can least afford it.
The Feds can stop the sale of ICE cars after 2035, which will happen anyway, because manufactures wont make them.
The Feds can put a tax on coal, but that is going to happen anyway, with a global carbon tax, which the E.U is pushing.

So what can our Government being that Labor or Liberal do, that wont indirectly hurt the poor, when the changes required will come about anyway as the major companies and businesses clean up their industries.
I would really like to debate the issue, rather than just mindless ranting, due to tribal politics.


----------



## SirRumpole (13 November 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Seriously Rumpy I'm really interested, because I can't see what the Feds can do other than encourage private sector investment, without increasing taxes a lot.




Private sector involvement is fine, but not unconstrained capitalism.

Morrison dropped the NEG which in my view was necessary to ensure continuation of supply even if it wasn't making money for investors at any particular time.

Considering electricity is an essential service I think that all generating, storage and distribution assets need to be (notionally anyway) part of the national infrastructure that cannot be disposed of without government permission (eg Hazelwood) . Smurf has already alluded to the fact that operators may be required to run generators in time of high demand, however I'm not sure if it prevents private operators just walking away when the going gets tough and therefore reducing capacity..

The thing that the government has to do is ensure that no one (or a cartel) of operators becomes so big that they can dictate policy or control supply and prices. Government has to pull the strings not the private sector. I don't think Morrison is committed enough to serving the public rather than serving big money.


----------



## sptrawler (13 November 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Private sector involvement is fine, but not unconstrained capitalism.
> 
> Morrison dropped the NEG which in my view was necessary to ensure continuation of supply even if it wasn't making money for investors at any particular time.
> 
> ...



I agree with you on all those points, the thing is until there are enough alternative options for generation, the major stations will still be required. My guess is somewhere down the track the States with Fed assistance will have to buy out some of the non profitable power stations, in order to keep the lights on.
As you know, it is cheaper to put in renewables than run coal, so it is only a matter of time before the private generators refuse to operate them, I think that time is a lot closer than many realise.
A Government can't force a company to run at a loss, so if they are going to make them keep running they will have to be subsidised, which there already is an outcry about, "subsidising fossil fuel", or buy them out.
There isn't a magic wand, renewables will continue to be put in as they are lucrative, storage will be legislated and bulk storage will be Government owned, coal generation will become more and more uneconomical to operate so the real issue is the balancing act to keep the lights on.
Whichever party is in is going to be serving "big money", because they need big money to do most of the heavy lifting, 13million taxpayers can't possibly do it without a* lot* of pain.


----------



## SirRumpole (13 November 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Whichever party is in is going to be serving "big money", because they need big money to do most of the heavy lifting, 13million taxpayers can't possibly do it without a* lot* of pain.




50 years ago 10 million taxpayers did it and we had the cheapest electricity in the world.

Governments don't have to make massive profits, they don't provide electricity for free, they can still make enough money to pay off the capital costs and cover running costs without having to satisfying greedy shareholders. Governments can keep power prices low because it's in the national interest to attract business and industry here.


----------



## rederob (13 November 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Well @basilio and @orr  enlighten me, as to what the Federal Government whether Labor or Liberal can do? Without committing billions in taxpayers money, which in the end the private sector can stump up anyway.
> The Feds could subsidies BEV's, which would make it cheaper for those who can already afford one, the poor still wont be able to.
> The Feds can put the tax up on fossil fuel, which again will hurt those who can least afford it.
> The Feds can stop the sale of ICE cars after 2035, which will happen anyway, because manufactures wont make them.
> ...



Scomo could claw back the $34B overpayments to business via Jobkeeper and reinvest that.
Oddly you think that a comparative pittance to incentivise new energy will lead to some kind of a tax blowout, yet the pandemic measures which added absolutely nothing to infrastructure, innovation or new employment was ok?

You seem to have an idea that everything has to be tax driven yet our massive debt levels have had a Scomo government actually reducing taxes.   Go figure!


----------



## sptrawler (13 November 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> 50 years ago 10 million taxpayers did it and we had the cheapest electricity in the world.
> 
> Governments don't have to make massive profits, they don't provide electricity for free, they can still make enough money to pay off the capital costs and cover running costs without having to satisfying greedy shareholders. Governments can keep power prices low because it's in the national interest to attract business and industry here.



Yes, as we have both said in the past it would be great if the electricity system gets nationalised, but with all the private sector rushing to put in solar and wind farms I can't see it happening.
The Governments will only be able to be 'generator of last resort', to be there when the private sector can't supply the load and have a role in setting the regulatory framework.


----------



## sptrawler (13 November 2021)

rederob said:


> Scomo could claw back the $34B overpayments to business via Jobkeeper and reinvest that.
> Oddly you think that a comparative pittance to incentivise new energy will leas to some kind of a tax blowout, yet the pandemic measures which added absolutely nothing to infrastructure, innovation or new employment was ok?
> 
> You seem to have an idea that everything has to be tax driven yet our massive debt levels have had a Scomo government actually reducing taxes.   Go figure!



That should be done, they are quick enough to claw back overdue tax debts or welfare over payments, there is a moral obligation to treat business over payments the same way as they treat taxpayer over payments IMO .
By the way I didn't think the pandemic payments were reasonable, I thought they were excessive, however there will be many who think it was fair and reasonable.
I have had to live on my savings for the last 10 years, being under pension age and having savings, makes me ineligible for any assistance. So I tend to agree with you, investment in infrastructure is far more valuable to people, than just making welfare more attractive.


----------



## SirRumpole (13 November 2021)

sptrawler said:


> but with all the private sector rushing to put in solar and wind farms I can't see it happening.




I have no problem with that, they are all part of the mix, as long as the mx is diverse enough to ensure supply reliability and cheap prices.


----------



## Humid (13 November 2021)

rederob said:


> Scomo could claw back the $34B overpayments to business via Jobkeeper and reinvest that.
> Oddly you think that a comparative pittance to incentivise new energy will leas to some kind of a tax blowout, yet the pandemic measures which added absolutely nothing to infrastructure, innovation or new employment was ok?
> 
> You seem to have an idea that everything has to be tax driven yet our massive debt levels have had a Scomo government actually reducing taxes.   Go figure!







__





						Let’s take a peek inside the great JobKeeper cover-up
					





					www.msn.com


----------



## Humid (13 November 2021)




----------



## sptrawler (13 November 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> I have no problem with that, they are all part of the mix, as long as the mx is diverse enough to ensure supply reliability and cheap prices.



Spot on IMO, the Government should only get involved to ensure that they keep the private generators honest, if they want to price gouge then dispatch the government generators, if they want to play fair give them the opportunity to earn a reasonable return on investment.
That then allows the Government, to direct taxpayers money to other areas of need.


----------



## sptrawler (13 November 2021)

Humid said:


> View attachment 132824



Well it is hard to believe that, a lot of them are the 'baby boomers', you know the generation who had it so good and according to the media should be given a good thrashing. 








						The average super balance for your age | ANZ
					

With retirement on the horizon, it’s crunch time for Baby Boomers with the next decade your last chance to top up your super, writes Josh Alston.




					www.anz.com.au


----------



## IFocus (13 November 2021)

And then this 

"The request itself is obscene. It is the kind of tinpot thinking you might expect in a failing dictatorship, maybe for a show trial after the coup. The attorney-general, Michaelia Cash, wishes to introduce evidence in the prosecution of Bernard Collaery that could not be known to Collaery or his lawyers and would instead be assessed by a special counsel engaged by the Commonwealth. It would form the secret basis for a secret trial, the premise of which has already been rejected by a court."









						Standover law
					

The request itself is obscene. It is the kind of tinpot thinking you might expect in a failing dictatorship, maybe for a show trial after the coup. The attorney-general, Michaelia Cash, wishes to introduce evidence in the prosecution of Bernard Collaery that could not be known to Collaery or his...




					www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au


----------



## basilio (13 November 2021)

Truth in Politics. Does it matter ? Who cares









						Once upon a time there was a wallaby who lied | First Dog on the Moon
					

In the beginning it only told small wallaby sized fibs – nobody really cared. Eventually people noticed and some of them got quite cross




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Humid (13 November 2021)

IFocus said:


> And then this
> 
> "The request itself is obscene. It is the kind of tinpot thinking you might expect in a failing dictatorship, maybe for a show trial after the coup. The attorney-general, Michaelia Cash, wishes to introduce evidence in the prosecution of Bernard Collaery that could not be known to Collaery or his lawyers and would instead be assessed by a special counsel engaged by the Commonwealth. It would form the secret basis for a secret trial, the premise of which has already been rejected by a court."
> 
> ...



And not a peep from the tyranny crowd on here ....you know the ones!


----------



## IFocus (15 November 2021)

Humid said:


> And not a peep from the tyranny crowd on here ....you know the ones!





It actually dose my head in, people screaming the sky is falling over COVID restrictions blah blah blah, but this is real a person has already been tried, convicted and sentenced in secret by a conservative government... then this,  mean while crickets.


----------



## sptrawler (15 November 2021)

IFocus said:


> It actually dose my head in, people screaming the sky is falling over COVID restrictions blah blah blah, but this is real a person has already been tried, convicted and sentenced in secret by a conservative government... then this,  mean while crickets.



I actually hadn't heard anything about it, until your post, it is really amazing that it isn't all over the media.
Even reading your post, it is hard to understand the background story to it, so to comment on it is difficult. 
With regard the covid blah, blah, blah, I guess that is because it has been the main topic on everyone's lips, including the media, for the last two years.
Hopefully the media, can bring everyone up to speed, on this issue you have brought up. 
One would think the media will be all onto it, as they seem to be keen to find anything to hammer the Government with.


----------



## moXJO (15 November 2021)

IFocus said:


> It actually dose my head in, people screaming the sky is falling over COVID restrictions blah blah blah, but this is real a person has already been tried, convicted and sentenced in secret by a conservative government... then this,  mean while crickets.





Humid said:


> And not a peep from the tyranny crowd on here ....you know the ones!




What are you going to do about it?
Vote Labor?

In seriousness most have said scomo is a pos.


----------



## SirRumpole (15 November 2021)

IFocus said:


> It actually dose my head in, people screaming the sky is falling over COVID restrictions blah blah blah, but this is real a person has already been tried, convicted and sentenced in secret by a conservative government... then this,  mean while crickets.



Not much protest either about all those wrongly convicted by RoboCop, sorry RoboDebt, many of whom committed suicide.


----------



## moXJO (15 November 2021)

Most right leaners on her won't vote Liberals. However perhaps people are mad that they won't vote labor either?

scomo has consistently showed he was a dodgy character. 
I'm not supporting a bunch of dcks:
 Pushing for a war with China.
Stomping on people's rights.
Disappear during crises.
And the list of grievances goes on. 

Point is that I haven't seen much in the way of support. So who are you guys talking at?


----------



## Humid (15 November 2021)

moXJO said:


> What are you going to do about it?
> Vote Labor?
> 
> In seriousness most have said scomo is a pos.



Vote for a party who implements an ICAC....like in NSW Glads fanboy


----------



## IFocus (15 November 2021)

moXJO said:


> Most right leaners on her won't vote Liberals. However perhaps people are mad that they won't vote labor either?
> 
> scomo has consistently showed he was a dodgy character.
> I'm not supporting a bunch of dcks:
> ...





For the sake of Australian democracy a federal ICAC is urgently needed, that wont come from the Coalition due to their corruption.

 Labor will get one up if only to bury the Coalition who seriously need a good clean out just like WA and BTW the sky hasn't fallen in WA due to a Labor government. 

The jumping at shadows at the thought of a federal Labor government has risen to the extreme (EV's will steal your weekend) all the time watching the current mob being possibly the most expensive, corrupt, morally bankrupt, overseeing the largest transfer of tax payers money to (overseas) profitable companies ever on and on.

All this supported by Hanson silence and Palmer's bank account.

Voting for Labor will get an ICAC voting for anyone else is a vote for the Coalition and another term of Morrison (who I am expecting to get re-elected) god help us.


----------



## sptrawler (15 November 2021)

IFocus said:


> For the sake of Australian democracy a federal ICAC is urgently needed, that wont come from the Coalition due to their corruption.
> 
> Labor will get one up if only to bury the Coalition who seriously need a good clean out just like WA and BTW the sky hasn't fallen in WA due to a Labor government.
> 
> ...



I don't disagree with your idea, but are you really trying to say corruption and dishonesty only dwells on one side of politics, I mean really?


----------



## Humid (15 November 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I don't disagree with your idea, but are you really trying to say corruption and dishonesty only dwells on one side of politics, I mean really?



How do you read that from that statement.....get off the cooking sherry pops


----------



## sptrawler (15 November 2021)

Humid said:


> How do you read that from that statement.....get off the cooking sherry pops



I'm more a Makers Mark 46, than a cooking sherry man.

By the way if you read what I said, it was a question not a statement, I wasn't judging I was asking.
Which would probably have been recognised by the literate, as there was a question mark at the end. 😂
I really do think you should leave the humour to me.


----------



## moXJO (15 November 2021)

Humid said:


> Vote for a party who implements an ICAC....like in NSW Glads fanboy



Throw a few more obeids into the mix you reckon, to even it out. His lapdog kk is in the Senate already isn't she? 
Didn't her son recently get involved in some scandal?


----------



## moXJO (15 November 2021)

IFocus said:


> For the sake of Australian democracy a federal ICAC is urgently needed, that wont come from the Coalition due to their corruption.
> 
> Labor will get one up if only to bury the Coalition who seriously need a good clean out just like WA and BTW the sky hasn't fallen in WA due to a Labor government.
> 
> ...



I'm sorry. Labor would be a terrible idea unless the moderates have actual control. Looking at their front bench looks like the same rejects from rudd/Gillard.

Let's talk about how the ports are currently fking the country's supply of goods for real world effects. Then be honest with the who and why it would get worse under Labor. Labor has plenty going on.

In saying that Liberals are just as sht. But yeah, can punch Labor till they lose a few of their front bench.


----------



## PZ99 (15 November 2021)

moXJO said:


> Throw a few more obeids into the mix you reckon, to even it out. His lapdog kk is in the Senate already isn't she?
> Didn't her son recently get involved in some scandal?



She will cost Labor the election I reckon... her and Penny Wong.


----------



## sptrawler (15 November 2021)

PZ99 said:


> She will cost Labor the election I reckon... her and Penny Wong.



I'm just looking forward to hearing something from Labor, it will be great when the campaigning starts and some of the policies can be discussed, that goes for both sides.
At the moment, there is a lot of waffle but not much on the way of policies, from anybody.


----------



## Humid (15 November 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I'm more a Makers Mark 46, than a cooking sherry man.
> 
> By the way if you read what I said, it was a question not a statement, I wasn't judging I was asking.
> Which would probably have been recognised by the literate, as there was a question mark at the end. 😂
> I really do think you should leave the humour to me.



Literate...?the statement was from IFocus you clown


----------



## IFocus (15 November 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I don't disagree with your idea, but are you really trying to say corruption and dishonesty only dwells on one side of politics, I mean really?




Corruption runs on both sides that's why you need an ICAC, Labor have a real incentive to install a strong one Coalition have already shown its never going to happen under them due to their recent history imagine what would come out of the Murray–Darling Basin Authority dealings.


----------



## sptrawler (16 November 2021)

Humid said:


> Literate...?the statement was from IFocus you clown



Re read your whole post #2972, including my quote, which you posted.
Then think about the fact, I can either make a statement to his quote which then doesn't require an answer, or I can ask a question of his quote which usually is asking for an answer, it has to be one or the other.
I said I was asking a question of the IFocus quote, I wasn't making a statement to his quote, Jeez learn English you muppet.
I was asking him for his reasoning, which he kindly did in #2979.


----------



## PZ99 (16 November 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I'm just looking forward to hearing something from Labor, it will be great when the campaigning starts and some of the policies can be discussed, that goes for both sides.
> At the moment, there is a lot of waffle but not much on the way of policies, from anybody.



Agreed. Although policy announcements are an easy target for extremist parties and their fake news these days. 

Holding the cards until the last minute might avoid the above but then we'll probably get saturated with policies that everyone forgets


----------



## sptrawler (16 November 2021)

Oh well it looks as though we were right, Porter is toast, as he should be IMO.
In my opinion he was done, as soon as he tried to suppress the information the ABC had on him, in their defence of the rape claim.




__





						No Cookies | Herald Sun
					

No Cookies




					www.heraldsun.com.au
				



From the article:
Christian Porter is tipped to quit politics in the wake of the bruising fallout from a rape allegation that saw him abused and spat at in the street.
The former Attorney-General, who strenuously denies the rape claim, announced he was standing down from the front bench last month.

But at the time he insisted he still planned to contest the next election.

It followed his refusal to disclose the identity of mystery donors who funded his legal fight against the ABC, which is estimated to be costing up to $1 million.


----------



## basilio (16 November 2021)

Indeed SP. We'll see what transpires.

Frankly IMV it would have been far, far better to see Christian Porter attempt to stand for election and see just how much of a public rebuttal he received. My guess is any election poll  now would be showing a 15-20% swing against him. He is absolutely on the nose.

Loved The Shovel's take though.

*Christian Porter to quit politics, describing it as ‘massive victory for Christian Porter’  * 







Former Government Minister and legal genius Christian Porter has apparently decided not to re-contest his seat at the upcoming election, telling friends it is a ‘massive victory’ for him to be forced out of politics against his will.

“To be so besieged by scandal that I am left with no other option but to bow out at the prime of my career – that’s a pretty big blow to my detractors. What a humiliation for them,” he said.                                                                                

He said it felt good to win so big. “I did everything wrong and yet here I am, without a job. It’s a triumph”.

The former Attorney General said those who doubted him and attacked him should be embarrassed. “They said I shouldn’t be in politics. They said it was inappropriate for me to be in Parliament with these accusations hanging over me. They said I should resign. Well, well, well. Who’s got egg on their face now?”.

Porter will look to find work in Sydney as a barrister or, failing that, a barista.  









						Christian Porter to quit politics, describing it as ‘massive victory for Christian Porter’
					

"It's a big setback for my detractors. What a humiliation for them"




					www.theshovel.com.au


----------



## orr (17 November 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I would really like to debate the issue, rather than just mindless ranting, due to tribal politics.




I'll take you at your word trawler''
Do a bit(better a lot) of back ground on the 'Japanese Top Runner Programme' and we might take it a bit from there.
It's auspices is of worthy note.

Big heads up to you Focus... 
For those with a wish to a better understanding of Bernard Collaery's situation and a wish to give him support, you can do a lot for youselves and the County by reading (and better buy) two books Collaery's 'Oil Under Troubled Water'  and Clinton Fernandes 'Island off The Coast of ASIA'

I'm getting a better feeling as to what australia's desision will be on this accomplishment of nothing, rancid little epoch of marketed dross the country has enduered...
lets hope.


----------



## IFocus (18 November 2021)

Always good when the government goes hard after the big guns

Centrelink’s cancelling of 80-year-old’s age pension ‘absurd and wrong’, tribunal rules​Aged care resident has advanced dementia and did not ‘have the capacity to comprehend’ the decision










						Centrelink’s cancelling of 80-year-old’s age pension ‘absurd and wrong’, tribunal rules
					

Aged care resident did not ‘personally have the capacity to comprehend … a decision to suspend his pension’




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## basilio (18 November 2021)

IFocus said:


> Always good when the government goes hard after the big guns
> 
> Centrelink’s cancelling of 80-year-old’s age pension ‘absurd and wrong’, tribunal rules​Aged care resident has advanced dementia and did not ‘have the capacity to comprehend’ the decision
> 
> ...



That was pretty scary. One of the most damning observations in the story was that Centrelink had quite sufficient authority to contact  the super fund and see what was happening.  But they didn't do that even though their records would have indicated the condition of the pensioner.

Incidentally the pensioner was still well eligible for a pension.


----------



## sptrawler (18 November 2021)

IFocus said:


> Always good when the government goes hard after the big guns
> 
> Centrelink’s cancelling of 80-year-old’s age pension ‘absurd and wrong’, tribunal rules​Aged care resident has advanced dementia and did not ‘have the capacity to comprehend’ the decision
> 
> ...



What I have found and I have been on the receiving end two or three times is, these Government departments obviously don't use people to actually check every welfare payment, super contribution etc every week, so what happens is when the ducks don't line up the computer sends out a letter.
If that letter isn't responded to, then the system assumes it is correct, then a payment is stopped or a debt is generated.
It is a pain in the butt and a lot of the time it is wrong, but like I said having been through the wringer a few times with it, you can understand the logic.
The issue is, when someone can't respond to the initial letter, then it becomes messy.
I was away in Europe for 6 months, when I came back, I had a tax bill that had been sent to collections, it was the ATO's fault but it did take a lot of unravelling.
Then you get the superannuation issues, due to the complexity, that again becomes a real issue if you don't respond to the first letter.
It is a mess and it makes a lot of mistakes, but coming from a background that processed a lot of info, it always needs ongoing fine tuning.
There will always be the occasion, where it makes mistakes, how they will ever get rid of them who knows.
My daughter after 20 years has finally received an auslan interpreter, when she visits centrelink, it is shocking that it has taken so long. Also the lack of an auslan interpreter back in 2010, ended up with her receiving a $6,000 bill, in 2017.


----------



## Humid (25 November 2021)

A unity ticket to challenge the integrity vacuum in Canberra - Pearls and Irritations
					

Two former political heavyweights from different sides have joined forces to combat the corruption and damaging inaction of the Morrison government.  Former Liberal leader John Hewson and I have teamed up as joint patrons of the Truth and Integrity Project, a social media-focused advocacy...




					johnmenadue.com


----------



## basilio (25 November 2021)

Humid said:


> A unity ticket to challenge the integrity vacuum in Canberra - Pearls and Irritations
> 
> 
> Two former political heavyweights from different sides have joined forces to combat the corruption and damaging inaction of the Morrison government.  Former Liberal leader John Hewson and I have teamed up as joint patrons of the Truth and Integrity Project, a social media-focused advocacy...
> ...



This is a strong, honest statement from two politicians across the political divide.  IMV well worth checking out.

_Former Liberal leader John Hewson and I have teamed up as joint patrons of the Truth and Integrity Project, a social media-focused advocacy campaign targeting Scott Morrison’s record on integrity matters and climate action in the lead-up to the federal election.

We are also patrons of Climate 200, an organisation driven by Simon Holmes à Court that is supporting candidates committed to strong action on increasing Australia’s commitment to mitigate climate change and embracing a post-carbon economy.

We are both board members of the Accountability Round Table (ART), chaired by Fiona McLeod, SC, which is devoted to the creation of a Commonwealth integrity commission with independent authority and power to call witnesses on matters involving corruption in the political process. This is in sharp contrast to the wretched model, programmed to fail, put up by then attorney-general Christian Porter and taken on by his successor Michaelia Cash. ART’s board includes retired judges, former politicians, public servants, lawyers and academics.

Both of us are troubled by the failure on courageous polities by both the Coalition parties and the Australian Labor Party (ALP). But the yawning abyss of Australia’s grossly inadequate and mendacious response to climate change and the unprecedented levels of corruption at a federal level are the responsibility of government, not opposition.

On climate change Morrison is wicked, Barnaby Joyce pretends to be crazy, while Labor is timid and fearful. Morrison and Anthony Albanese appear to be closer to each other on climate change than they are to Joe Biden, Boris Johnson, Emmanuel Macron and the New South Wales Coalition and Victorian Labor governments.

We would like to be proved wrong about this and hope for an effective rebuttal.

Advertisements by Clive Palmer’s United Australia Party shout at electors: “You can never trust Labor, the Liberals or the Greens.” Note the significant omission: voting for the Nationals, the back legs of the Coalition horse, would presumably be acceptable._


----------



## basilio (25 November 2021)

IMV The Shovel always manages to skewer the reality of ScoMo's government with the veneer of satire. 

*Forget QAnon! This shadowy cabal uses a blind trust to protect powerful men accused of rape    * 






An increasing number of Australians are convinced that Donald Trump is secretly trying to defeat a satanic, cannibalistic paedophile ring operated by Hillary Clinton. But an even more outrageous conspiracy theory has emerged closer to home, which claims that a shadowy cabal is using its wealth to anonymously protect powerful men accused of rape and sexual assault.

Australian QAnon followers say the claim stretches credibility. “The idea that there is some secret underground group of people funnelling money into the legal cases of elected officials, without ever revealing their identity or the sums of money involved is so crazy,” one QAnon believer said. “It’s much more likely that there’s a government operative planted within the White House who is using 4chan to reveal the details of a network of underground tunnels used by Tom Hanks to traffic children”.                       

https://www.theshovel.com.au/2021/11/23/qanon-blind-trust-powerful-men-australia/


----------



## sptrawler (27 November 2021)

Sounds like Murdoch wants a change of government, two articles, the same day, can't read the content but the headline isn't flattering.  





__





						NoCookies | The Australian
					






					www.theaustralian.com.au
				








__





						NoCookies | The Australian
					






					www.theaustralian.com.au


----------



## wayneL (27 November 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Sounds like Murdoch wants a change of government, two articles, the same day, can't read the content but the headline isn't flattering.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's what Murdoch does.

Sand castle syndrome.

I've noticed this for decades.... Play king maker, doesn't matter which side, then year down the castle.

Every farkin' time bro.


----------



## Logique2 (28 November 2021)

The ScoMo Government: I think it's gone in early 2022.

Now in November 2021: ..Scott Morrisson and Josh Frydenberg can't spin their way out of this ..they behaved intolerably towards Tasmanian MP Bridget Archer - on a matter of principle for her and her constituents, on the proposed federal corruption authority.

Morrison a conviction politician? The ALP says:_ ."The Liar From the Shire" .._They may well think that, but of course, I couldn't possibly comment..

To posters Basilio and Orr ..you'll be in Fed government next year.  A consequent reduction in electricity prices, and global temperatures will doubtless follow..


----------



## PZ99 (28 November 2021)

Either y'all underestimating Scomo & Co
or y'all overestimating Albo & Co


----------



## Humid (28 November 2021)

Logique2 said:


> The ScoMo Government: I think it's gone in early 2022.
> 
> Now in November 2021: ..Scott Morrisson and Josh Frydenberg can't spin their way out of this ..they behaved intolerably towards Tasmanian MP Bridget Archer - on a matter of principle for her and her constituents, on the proposed federal corruption authority.
> 
> ...



And hopefully an ICAC with teeth something your side seems to be avoiding


----------



## basilio (2 December 2021)

No surprises for ScoMo in the Jenkins report on sexual harassment in Parliament. Its the biggest open secret in town.  Now we'll know  whether ScoMo decides to "do the right thing"  and actually implement the recommendations or simply consider them before having another extensive review .  

Perhaps a few focus groups on how women see the government in light of this report would help him develop his views.

Brittany Higgins and Grace Tame say politicians knew depth of harassment in parliament​
Brittany Higgins and Grace Tame say until concrete changes are made in Parliament House they will not trust the words they have heard from politicians about changing the culture and making it a safer place to work.

Key points:​
Brittany Higgins and Grace Tame say all the recommendations from the Jenkins report should be implemented
The review found 51pc of workers experienced at least one incident of bullying, sexual harassment or actual or attempted sexual assault
Ms Tame said it was disturbing that review participants said offenders had continued in their roles or even been promoted.

Earlier this week, a report by sex discrimination commissioner Kate Jenkins found one in three people working in federal parliament had experienced some kind of sexual harassment there.

Ms Higgins said the report would not have come as a surprise to many who worked there.

"I don't think it shocked anyone It didn't even shock the Prime Minister himself. It's been rampant in that building," she told RN Breakfast.

"We've yet to see real decisive action from the Prime Minister on this, or at least a firm commitment that he's actually committed to changing things."









						'It didn't shock the PM himself': Brittany Higgins and Grace Tame say politicians knew depth of harassment in parliament
					

Brittany Higgins says Prime Minister Scott Morrison rebuffed suggestions she made in April that were similar to recommendations in the Jenkins report on misconduct in parliament.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## basilio (2 December 2021)

Another loud explosion in the PM's ear.

Rachelle Miller alleges affair with Alan Tudge 'abusive', as minister denies claim​ 




Amy Remeikis

*Rachelle Miller, * who came forward to speak about the Canberra culture more than a year ago, detailing her experience after her relationship with minister *Alan Tudge* ended, has delivered a statement in support of women who have experienced abuse and harassment in the parliament, calling on men to begin addressing the issue.

“I am fully aware that a year ago I said my relationship with minister Alan Tudge was a consensual relationship, but it’s more complicated than that,” she said in front of cameras in the Mural Hall.

“I was so ashamed, so humiliated, so scared, so exhausted. I told the small part of my story I was able to manage.”

Miller said the Liberal party did not have a ‘women problem’ but a ‘men problem’ and said while she had attempted to speak to the prime minister about her experience on more than one occasion, she had been rebuffed:



> _All I ever wanted was for the government to listen and to acknowledge our experiences in this building,” she said._
> 
> _Yet when I spoke out, not a single member from this government contacted me to see if I was OK. One female chief of staff sent me a text and that was it._
> 
> _Many former staffers reached out to tell their stories and they were shocking. I’m here because the government will not listen. Despite the prime minister’s claim on Tuesday that he’s willing to hear our experiences, his actions have betrayed that he’s not._




Miller said she was coming forward again in an attempt to have the parliament implement the full suite of recommendations in the *Kate Jenkins*’ review into parliamentary culture.

Miller said she became isolated from her family and friends during her relationship with Tudge, which she alleged was “emotionally abusive” and on one occasion, was allegedly “physically abusive”.









						Australia politics live update: Rachelle Miller alleges affair with Alan Tudge ‘abusive’, as minister denies claim; parliament sits for final day
					

Follow all the day’s news




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## orr (4 December 2021)

I never had any doubt that Morrison was *not* fit for purpose; And so .....

'_A third independent is *Allegra Spender,* running in the Liberal-held seat of Wentworth. Her antecedents could hardly be more establishment. *Her grandfather, Sir Percy Spender, KVCO, KBE, QC, was a member of federal parliament from 1937 to 1951 and a cabinet minister under the Liberal Party’s founder, Robert Menzies*. *Her father, John Spender, QC, was the Liberal member for North Sydney from 1980 to 1990. *Her late mother was the fashion designer and businesswoman Carla Zampatti.

Spender went to the elite Ascham School, then on to *Cambridge University for an economics degree,* University of London for her *master of science, and Harvard and Dartmouth College for business courses*. She worked at *McKinsey as a business analyst*, and in the British Treasury, before becoming managing director of the family fashion company. She was chair of the Sydney Renewable Power Company, an environmental impact investment company, and is now chief executive of the Australian Business and Community Network, which works to address educational disadvantage._'


Science. Integrity. Social Progress. Education and the Arts. And a view to a future for Industry...
Everything Schmo(the Everybogan) has proven to be not....


----------



## Humid (7 December 2021)

Qantas and Crown Resorts named biggest JobKeeper recipients
					

Qantas, Crown Resorts and Flight Centre have been revealed as the three biggest recipients of the controversial JobKeeper wage subsidy.




					thenewdaily.com.au
				




Bail out Qantas so they can gouge us some more and pay themselves a bonus!


----------



## sptrawler (7 December 2021)

Humid said:


> Qantas and Crown Resorts named biggest JobKeeper recipients
> 
> 
> Qantas, Crown Resorts and Flight Centre have been revealed as the three biggest recipients of the controversial JobKeeper wage subsidy.
> ...



I can't wait to see someone ask Alan Joyce, a man of principle to give the money back, I'm sure he will be glad to.
I mean as with the Folau incident, some things just have to be done in the name of inclusiveness, fairness and treating others with respect.
There is no way he would handball his responsibilities to the Australian taxpayer, maybe robo debt should be taken of the leash, to chase those who who obtained the payment outside the guidelines..lol


----------



## Humid (8 December 2021)

State Daddy O’s: Mark McGowan-themed CEREAL launches
					

Ever wanted to have breakfast with Mark McGowan? Well here’s your chance.




					www.perthnow.com.au
				




Scummos bringing one out too....
A box with nothing inside it


----------



## rederob (8 December 2021)

Humid said:


> State Daddy O’s: Mark McGowan-themed CEREAL launches
> 
> 
> Ever wanted to have breakfast with Mark McGowan? Well here’s your chance.
> ...



So disappointing when Scomo has a  Coalition full of flakes, an abundance of nuts and can sugar coat anything.


----------



## moXJO (8 December 2021)

Humid said:


> State Daddy O’s: Mark McGowan-themed CEREAL launches
> 
> 
> Ever wanted to have breakfast with Mark McGowan? Well here’s your chance.
> ...



Get a tattoo of scomo and I'll buy you a box of that cereal.


----------



## Humid (8 December 2021)

moXJO said:


> Get a tattoo of scomo and I'll buy you a box of that cereal.



would be a full back job to get his fat head on


----------



## Humid (8 December 2021)

JoshKeeper: Patrick slams "piss weak" Senate body in Tax Commissioner contempt row over JobKeeper secrecy - Michael West Media
					

The Senate Privileges Committee has been slammed as "pathetic" for failing to find the Tax Commissioner in contempt over JobKeeper snub




					www.michaelwest.com.au
				




Hands up who voted for this lot.....greatest scam in Oz history


----------



## wayneL (8 December 2021)

Humid said:


> JoshKeeper: Patrick slams "piss weak" Senate body in Tax Commissioner contempt row over JobKeeper secrecy - Michael West Media
> 
> 
> The Senate Privileges Committee has been slammed as "pathetic" for failing to find the Tax Commissioner in contempt over JobKeeper snub
> ...



Not me.  I have voted outside the LNP in the Senate for a few elections now, but the last election was the first time I didn't vote lnp in the reps.

Never again.

I have however maintained a proud tradition of never ever voting for the ALP or greens


----------



## sptrawler (9 December 2021)

The problem I'm seeing for Scomo is, they have been so complacent and entitled, when they do score goals no one gives a toss, in a lot of ways they are falling into the same hole Shorten did they thought Albo was such a goose they would romp it in.
But Albo's been taken aside, given some elocution lessons, a hair cut and some horn rimmed glasses and they have done a John Howard makeover on him, given him some street cred.
Game on IMO.


----------



## moXJO (9 December 2021)

sptrawler said:


> The problem I'm seeing for Scomo is, they have been so complacent and entitled, when they do score goals no one gives a toss, in a lot of ways they are falling into the same hole Shorten did they thought Albo was such a goose they would romp it in.
> But Albo's been taken aside, given some elocution lessons, a hair cut and some horn rimmed glasses and they have done a John Howard makeover on him, given him some street cred.
> Game on IMO.



Anytime I see those Labor front bench morons on tv (the same ones I thought were idiots back in Kevin 07). I quietly reassess just how much of a totalitarian scomo government I could live under.


----------



## SirRumpole (9 December 2021)

moXJO said:


> Anytime I see those Labor front bench morons on tv (the same ones I thought were idiots back in Kevin 07). I quietly reassess just how much of a totalitarian scomo government I could live under.




No worse than the LNP front bench morons like Angus Taylor, Michael Sukkar, Christian Porter, Alan Tudge  or Barnaby Joyce.

Lets wait until the campaign starts but I'm looking forward to both sides explaining how they will do Budget repair without hitting the working middle class.

Will the LNP hit high earning individuals and companies, their natural electorate, and will Labor cut welfare spending ?

My guess is both sides will just gloss over debt and deficits and concentrate on handing out Christmas presents.


----------



## PZ99 (9 December 2021)

Budget repair: Forget it... that can has been kicked so far down the road that no one will be alive to see it.

So far I haven't seen anything credible for a Labor vote yet. Last election they wanted to reinstate retail penalty rates so they should run that again. On the other hand they need to drop this idea of labour hire casuals and permanents getting the "same money for the same work" because in reality it doesn't work like that.

As for the Coalition attempting to remove the BOOT safety net - well that's a big no thankyouverymuch.


----------



## Humid (9 December 2021)

Scott Morrison’s Covid scam to help a third friend, Scott Briggs, become a millionaire via government contracts and fraud
					

Scott Morrison has recent history of helping his close mates make $million from government contracts such as David Gazard and Nine Chairman Peter Costello but the new Covid scam also involves another friend Scott Briggs.




					kangaroocourtofaustralia.com
				




Keep your hands up...


----------



## Humid (9 December 2021)

wayneL said:


> Not me.  I have voted outside the LNP in the Senate for a few elections now, but the last election was the first time I didn't vote lnp in the reps.
> 
> Never again.
> 
> I have however maintained a proud tradition of never ever voting for the ALP or greens


----------



## wayneL (9 December 2021)

Humid said:


> View attachment 133984



Nice quote. It ain't the big two for me.


----------



## IFocus (9 December 2021)

The Australian Labor party has been around since 1891 and federally 1910.

Most of the policies promoting freedoms and social cohesions came from Labor, none repeat none have ever been rescinded by the Liberal shrills.

On the other hand interestingly all the sins Labor has been blamed for have been committed x 10 over the last 8 years by the current mob and more yet no one blinks its still you cannot trust Labor.

Throwing over $20bil to foreigners for no return has been surly the biggest failure of any Australian government ever.

You currently have the PM attacking NSW ICAC and looking to install Gladys based on polling sums up just how morally bankrupt and corrupt Morrison is.

BTW any vote other than for Labor or the greens is a vote for the Coalition that goes for the majority of independents as well.


----------



## sptrawler (9 December 2021)

IFocus said:


> The Australian Labor party has been around since 1891 and federally 1910.
> 
> Most of the policies promoting freedoms and social cohesions came from Labor, none repeat none have ever been rescinded by the Liberal shrills.
> 
> ...



That's great for the Party room and the rank and file meetings, but in this day and age it doesn't work like that anymore, the majority tar all politicians with the same brush, they all commit the same transgressions regardless of party, that Thompson dude was back in court a couple of weeks ago.
So as Rumpy said a few weeks back, it is whoever is going to be able to sell the best story, 6 months ago I had concerns about Albo's delivery, but seeing him recently I think he'll be fine.
It's what the young ones think that matters IMO, the silent majority will have made their mind up, as have the older generation.
Yes I think it will be the 35 and under that will swing this one,


----------



## Humid (9 December 2021)

Johnny Depp calls for Barnaby Joyce to be put down
					

Thoughts and prayers are with his family who have to live through this suffering




					chaser.com.au


----------



## wayneL (9 December 2021)

IFocus said:


> BTW any vote other than for Labor or the greens is a vote for the Coalition that goes for the majority of independents as well.



Not really true. You can organise your preferences any way you want, just have to vote below the line.

I could quite easily go something like this:
LDP
UAP
PHON
ALP
GRN
LNP

If LDP, UAP, and PHON are eliminated, then ALP would get my vote. That's how our preference system works.


----------



## moXJO (9 December 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> No worse than the LNP front bench morons like Angus Taylor, Michael Sukkar, Christian Porter, Alan Tudge  or Barnaby Joyce.
> 
> Lets wait until the campaign starts but I'm looking forward to both sides explaining how they will do Budget repair without hitting the working middle class.
> 
> ...



Those morons unfortunately have won more elections. 

Labor literally has the same rejects from the previous lost elections. And the century ago disaster that was Rudd Gillard Rudd. That's a special kind of stupid.

At least they learnt their lesson from the last Bill Shorten election. They discovered that they lost due to not getting the religious vote. So are now pretending to support religious communities and lgbt. Which is a fine line to walk along. I vote we will see another Labor disaster of their own making.


----------



## moXJO (9 December 2021)

wayneL said:


> Not really true. You can organise your preferences any way you want, just have to vote below the line.
> 
> I could quite easily go something like this:
> LDP
> ...



Yeah I  need an ev subsidy so Labor will get the preference if the others get eliminated. 
Preparation for free sht in 3....2.....1


----------



## wayneL (9 December 2021)

moXJO said:


> Yeah I  need an ev subsidy so Labor will get the preference if the others get eliminated.
> Preparation for free sht in 3....2.....1



Of course, I'm not suggesting this order. Just pointing out how the preferential system works


----------



## IFocus (9 December 2021)

Ranking Australia's worst treasurers - Michael West
					

The Story: https://www.michaelwest.com.au/treasurer-measurer-exploding-the-liberal-election-myth-of-superior-economic-managers/ Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/TheWestReport Merch: https://lonelykidsclub.com/new/michael+west Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/michaelwest.journo Insta...




					www.michaelwest.com.au
				




Note better link









						Treasurer Measurer: exploding the Liberal election myth of superior economic managers - Michael West
					

Does the Liberal Party's claim to be "superior economic managers" stack up? We investigate 60 years of Australia's Treasurers




					www.michaelwest.com.au


----------



## IFocus (9 December 2021)

sptrawler said:


> That's great for the Party room and the rank and file meetings, but in this day and age it doesn't work like that anymore, the majority tar all politicians with the same brush, they all commit the same transgressions regardless of party, that Thompson dude was back in court a couple of weeks ago.
> So as Rumpy said a few weeks back, it is whoever is going to be able to sell the best story, 6 months ago I had concerns about Albo's delivery, but seeing him recently I think he'll be fine.
> It's what the young ones think that matters IMO, the silent majority will have made their mind up, as have the older generation.
> Yes I think it will be the 35 and under that will swing this one,





No doubt Albanese is a steady hand but in no way politically sexy for elections that matters, Morrison is a far better campaigner (read bulls!tter) and I get the feeling Australians aren't that interested, at this point I still think Morrison can go around again.  

I am really concerned at the secrecy around the federal government (cannot discuss "on water operation") and the sheer arrogance of the spending rorts (including to mates) not to mention little or no accountability re ministers unless a threat to Morrison.

An ICAC is becoming essential still I don't think the punters care guess we will find out in May.


----------



## IFocus (10 December 2021)

Looks like Labor are complicit here as well

JoshKeeper: Patrick slams “piss weak” Senate body in Tax Commissioner contempt row over JobKeeper secrecy​








						JoshKeeper: Patrick slams "piss weak" Senate body in Tax Commissioner contempt row over JobKeeper secrecy - Michael West Media
					

The Senate Privileges Committee has been slammed as "pathetic" for failing to find the Tax Commissioner in contempt over JobKeeper snub




					www.michaelwest.com.au


----------



## SirRumpole (10 December 2021)

IFocus said:


> No doubt Albanese is a steady hand but in no way politically sexy for elections that matters,




And you think Morrison is 'sexy' ?

People have had a lot of time to measure Morrison up for the political cynic that he is and I don't think they like what they see.

Albo definitely needs to get out more and appeal to the ordinary workers not just the welfare lobby. If he can do that then I think he'll romp in.  (need a 'fingers crossed' emoji).


----------



## Humid (10 December 2021)

moXJO said:


> Yeah I  need an ev subsidy so Labor will get the preference if the others get eliminated.
> Preparation for free sht in 3....2.....1



As long as the free $hit goes to corporate types and not poor people....you can keep your separation


----------



## moXJO (10 December 2021)

Humid said:


> As long as the free $hit goes to corporate types and not poor people....you can keep your separation



In reality they bankrupt a lot of tradies last time around with the ber while enriching the big businesses. Same with insulation, solar etc.
Labor actually wants big business not the little guys and its all down to who you can unionise.

So don't believe only one side does it. I was on the ground when it was all going on.


----------



## moXJO (10 December 2021)

IFocus said:


> You currently have the PM attacking NSW ICAC and looking to install Gladys based on polling sums up just how morally bankrupt and corrupt Morrison is.



This was all just a deflection. She was never going to federal. He said it to divert attention.


----------



## sptrawler (10 December 2021)

moXJO said:


> Yeah I  need an ev subsidy so Labor will get the preference if the others get eliminated.
> Preparation for free sht in 3....2.....1



I think that will have a lot more of a bearing on the outcome than people realise.
Scomo trying to walk the steady but safe and sure line isn't going to resonate well with today's people, they have saved a motza they've had a $hit time with covid, they will want incentives.
It is party poppers and lollipops time, that's going to win the the day, stuff the expense.
I think it will be a landslide.


----------



## SirRumpole (10 December 2021)

moXJO said:


> In reality they bankrupt a lot of tradies last time around with the ber while enriching the big businesses. Same with insulation, solar etc.
> Labor actually wants big business not the little guys and its all down to who you can unionise.
> 
> So don't believe only one side does it. I was on the ground when it was all going on.



I'm not saying it didn't happen,  but could you give some examples of how small trades got done over by the BER ?


----------



## moXJO (10 December 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> I'm not saying it didn't happen,  but could you give some examples of how small trades got done over by the BER ?



For BER you would have a big big builder that was overseeing the subcontractors, government payouts.
Now there were multiple issues:

Deadlines
So you had impossible deadlines. I would turn up to a job and there would be no scaffolding. I'd yell at the site manager as this was now cutting into my time and there's no extension. Thing is the scaffolding are having problems as well as they haven't been paid for the last three jobs they had done as the agency overseeing it all is fking around. So if the whole job is running behind and you couldn't do your job because others were behind. You would get hit with penalties. And a lot of the time it wasn't the other guys fault for being late. But due to weather or material/site safety.

Can't provide a proper quote to actual works. You would quote off the plan for a job. When you turn up the whole things changed often costing thousands more and you are already locked in.

You also wouldn't see money for months. So if you had a large crew, you had to wear the costs for months.  Government was slow on payments to the point that guys went broke.

There was plenty more buy memory fades.
They used my work as a centrepiece of the BER we had the least  faults out of everyone really minor stuff.  A politician went on TV out the front of it talking up the BER. I've been round the block a few times and remembered thinking 'if it was this much of a sht fight for someone like me I'd hate to see how the other tradies are fairing'.

Turns out they went through worse and went broke. I was smart enough to do a couple and then tell them to "fk off". Mismanaged mess on a grand scale. Which brings me to the:

 Insulation debacle

So I watched this with some amusement. It was rushed out and looked like a complete mess. This was the major problem with Rudd's roll-outs they were so rushed that there was zero thought to what could go wrong. I understand at the time the gfc just rolled through. But industry was already busy and wasn't slowing down.

 You could buy these machines that spat insulation into roofs. Just kick a tile and point the nozzle inside. Unfortunately you would damage the sarking on a lot of these roofs but cowboys don't care.

 So the pay was something like $1200 to $2100 it lessened over time from the higher figure it may have been $1800 I can't remember now. But people would just spray this sht everywhere. Especially over the lights causing potential fire hazards. But I knew a bricklayer who started doing it made over $600000 in a matter of months. Bought a house with it. Groups of town houses were a gold mine.

Now everyone was loading up on insulation as there was a bit of a shortage. Guys start importing warehouses full of it from overseas. This was full steam ahead. 
And then they cut the grant short without warning. 

Now you have guys losing hundreds of thousands. The guys that were originally in the insulation installation industry are basically ruined as there were no jobs left to insulate due to this scheme. It was a complete balls up.

As for the guys getting killed, well the government was indeed warned at the time. A mate of mine who is on some 'electrician council' actually went to Canberra to outline the dangers or so I was told.

And the rorts, oh the rorts. Guys would just insulated round the manhole. Others would just get people to sign the paperwork saying it was completed and take off overseas with hundreds of thousands of $.

This scheme at least enriched the first lot of guys that were in. I wouldn't call it value for money though. The big industry overseeing it were the ones making the real money.

There was a lot more but that's over a decade now and details escape me.


----------



## moXJO (10 December 2021)

IFocus said:


> Ranking Australia's worst treasurers - Michael West
> 
> 
> The Story: https://www.michaelwest.com.au/treasurer-measurer-exploding-the-liberal-election-myth-of-superior-economic-managers/ Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/TheWestReport Merch: https://lonelykidsclub.com/new/michael+west Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/michaelwest.journo Insta...
> ...



This liberal government popped our relationship with China and caused massive losses in the $billions just to brown nose the Yanks. The Yanks ain't going to help us with trade. In fact they rushed in and shafted us by filling the gap.

I'd question if they would actually defend us. They wouldn't have entered ww2 if not for pearl harbour. And that was all due to opinion polls even back then. At least Churchill did it based on right vs wrong.


----------



## sptrawler (10 December 2021)

Absolutely spot on @moXJO , there was a certain Labor politician, who was on the board of one of the companies that got caught with enough insulation to cover the SW. I nearly wet myself 🤣 

As with a lot of things Labor do, it is a good fundamental initiative, but pizz poor implementation and it happens over and over again.
But having said that they do push the boundaries and that is what really needs to happen in Australia ATM and I, as you would like to change my car.


----------



## Humid (10 December 2021)

moXJO said:


> For BER you would have a big big builder that was overseeing the subcontractors, government payouts.
> Now there were multiple issues:
> 
> Deadlines
> ...



So what you are  saying is the builders  sent the subbies to the wall.....got anything new to add
Been going on forever


----------



## Humid (10 December 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Absolutely spot on @moXJO , there was a certain Labor politician, who was on the board of one of the companies that got caught with enough insulation to cover the SW. I nearly wet myself 🤣
> 
> As with a lot of things Labor do, it is a good fundamental initiative, but pizz poor implementation and it happens over and over again.
> But having said that they do push the boundaries and that is what really needs to happen in Australia ATM and I, as you would like to change my car.



The Libs have sorted that out .....they just give the money no initiative needed!


----------



## sptrawler (10 December 2021)

Humid said:


> The Libs have sorted that out .....they just give the money no initiative needed!



Yes well there is no pleasing some people. 🤣
You would probably have cheered them on, if everyone was just left to suck up the pain, you've already shown you don't give a rats about someone else's plight.


----------



## moXJO (10 December 2021)

Humid said:


> So what you are  saying is the builders  sent the subbies to the wall.....got anything new to add
> Been going on forever



Payments were from government.


----------



## Humid (10 December 2021)

moXJO said:


> Payments were from government.



Bollocks


----------



## sptrawler (10 December 2021)

moXJO said:


> Payments were from government.



Waste of breath mate, Labor can do no wrong, that's why they are always in for long stints. 🤣

They will get in this time, because everyone thinks, they can't be worse than this mob, then after one or two terms they go OMG they can.


----------



## moXJO (10 December 2021)

Humid said:


> Bollocks



They generally have conditions that safeguard subbies to a degree. It was a government job and a Labor federal scheme at that. Checks and balances were not in place because it was rushed. 

But Labor was never about the "Workers" only public servants.


----------



## Humid (10 December 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Waste of breath mate, Labor can do no wrong, that's why they are always in for long stints. 🤣
> 
> They will get in this time, because everyone thinks, they can't be worse than this mob, then after one or two terms they go OMG they can.



Oh thats right you are one of Scummos quiet aussies
Tell me about his achievements in office.....kick it off with helicopters if you like


----------



## sptrawler (11 December 2021)

Humid said:


> Oh thats right you are one of Scummos quiet aussies
> Tell me about his achievements in office.....kick it off with helicopters if you like



So I suppose you drive a Renault.lol
Maybe you think the right thing to do is run around kissing butt, in reality if a bad decision is made and it can be reversed it should be.
I was warming to Albo, you just keep reminding me why people vote against them, sad really when your supporters are your worst asset.lol


----------



## Humid (11 December 2021)

sptrawler said:


> So I suppose you drive a Renault.lol
> Maybe you think the right thing to do is run around kissing butt, in reality if a bad decision is made and it can be reversed it should be.
> I was warming to Albo, you just keep reminding me why people vote against them, sad really when your supporters are your worst asset.lol








	

		
			
		

		
	
put your hand up


----------



## sptrawler (11 December 2021)

Humid said:


> View attachment 134087
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So that holds true if I vote for Albo? You really are a dick.lol
Like I said, it is unfortunate that Labor has to try and rise above the bogan mentality of its supporters, which act as an anchor on its asperations.
Or I could put it another way, you have done nothing but slag of at people about how bad the Libs are and how good Labor are, how far has it got you? What is the definition of stupid, constantly trying the same thing and expecting a different result.
Maybe you could try having a mature discussion, as to the pros and cons of each parties policies.
You keep forgetting Morrison didn't win the last election. Labor lost it.


----------



## SirRumpole (11 December 2021)

sptrawler said:


> So that holds true if I vote for Albo? You really are a dick.lol
> Like I said, it is unfortunate that Labor has to try and rise above the bogan mentality of its supporters, which act as an anchor on its asperations.
> Or I could put it another way, you have done nothing but slag of at people about how bad the Libs are and how good Labor are, how far has it got you? What is the definition of stupid, constantly trying the same thing and expecting a different result.
> Maybe you could try having a mature discussion, as to the pros and cons of each parties policies.
> *You keep forgetting Morrison didn't win the last election. Labor lost it.*




And the one before that as well.


----------



## Humid (11 December 2021)

sptrawler said:


> So that holds true if I vote for Albo? You really are a dick.lol
> Like I said, it is unfortunate that Labor has to try and rise above the bogan mentality of its supporters, which act as an anchor on its asperations.
> Or I could put it another way, you have done nothing but slag of at people about how bad the Libs are and how good Labor are, how far has it got you? What is the definition of stupid, constantly trying the same thing and expecting a different result.
> Maybe you could try having a mature discussion, as to the pros and cons of each parties policies.
> You keep forgetting Morrison didn't win the last election. Labor lost it.



It's Saturday why arn't you at bowls


----------



## SirRumpole (11 December 2021)

Humid said:


> It's Saturday why arn't you at bowls



He may be still in hospital ?


----------



## sptrawler (11 December 2021)

@ humid Just in the interest of conversation, I thought I would look up the helicopter issue you mentioned.
Apparently it isn't uncommon for Governments to cancel contracts, Kevin Rudd did exactly the same thing in 2008, on the grounds they were unsafe and not fit for purpose.








						Australia cancels contract for Seasprite helicopters from Kaman (Published 2008)
					






					www.nytimes.com
				




So now we move onto the Morrison cancellation, apparently the door openings are too small for the machine guns to give adequate range of movement to protect personel rope reppalling from the aircraft also they have been expensive to operate and maintain apparently.
So now they are going to do the sensible thing, bite the bullet and buy off the shelf helicopters with a proven track record, and extensive after sales service, makes sense really the Taipans probably should never have been bought in the first place.








						Dumping the ADF’s MRH-90 helicopters is the right call, but why now? | The Strategist
					

The sad saga of the MRH-90 Taipan helicopter has been running for a long time. Back when I worked in the Department of Defence, we used to occupy ourselves from time to time calculating how ...




					www.aspistrategist.org.au
				




While on the subject of cancellations we may as well get onto the subs, the French subs a Malcolm Turnbull brain fart, poor old Mal wants to be green but can't man up to the decision to go nuclear and still wants to be seen to be the man, so instead of buying off the shelf diesel subs from Japan( which Abbott had set up) he does a weird agreement with France to supply nuclear subs converted to diesel subs.
How he thought he was going to have effective deterrent subs with diesel propulsion in 2040 is anyones guess, let alone explain to people why they have to stop using fossil fueled transport, yet they are spending billions buying fossil fueled subs.
So the whole project was a disaster from go to whoa, if the contract had been continued Australia would have paid a fortune for subs that may as well be delivered straight to the tip, but many are saying that would be a better outcome, than cancelling the contract and buying clean propulsion, state of the art attack submarines which are compatible with those our allies use. Most probably think it was a sensible move.








						The morning after: Australia, Japan, and the submarine deal that wasn't
					

Barely had the visiting Japanese submarine, JS Hakuryu, departed Sydney Harbour on 26 April than Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull announced to the media that Australia’s future submarines would be built by the French contractor, DCNS Group. A week prior to Turnbull’s announcement, the...




					bellschool.anu.edu.au
				




So now we move onto your other gripes, the idiots in power, being objective and just looking at outcomes without political bias or tribalism, what has happened since the Morrison government has come into office.
Covid caused a massive shutdown of just about all aspect of our economy, how did we go from a voters perspective? Keeping in mind voters have a very short memory.
The ASX is at all time highs one year after a GFC event.
Australians have more savings now then ever before.
We have one of the lowest death rates from covid in the World.
We have one of the highest vaccination rates in the World.

So that is what Albo is up against, the things in Albo's favour are IMO, the Coalition looks completely worn out, they are riddled with scandal and there is no way the changes that are needed in our fiscal, social, agricultural and industrial spaces can be achieved by the Coalition.
So really it is just a case of it's time for change IMO.


----------



## Humid (11 December 2021)

The economy was shot before covid
The states have done all the heavy lifting
Tripled debt but actually doubled it before covid
Robodebt
Sportsrorts
Car park rorts
Alleged anal rapes and standard ones
Front of the queue
Wrong subs and helicopters
And the cherry no ICAC

Morrison isn’t only at war with ICAC. His goal is to maintain the appearance of democracy while destroying it, by reducing its institutions to mere shells, populated by his people.


----------



## SirRumpole (11 December 2021)

Humid said:


> The economy was shot before covid
> The states have done all the heavy lifting
> Tripled debt but actually doubled it before covid
> Robodebt
> ...



Not to mention 11 energy policies and a climate policy written on the back of an envelope after a dressing down by world leaders including Biden and Boris.

Incompetence and cynicism wrapped into one.


----------



## Humid (11 December 2021)

sptrawler said:


> @ humid Just in the interest of conversation, I thought I would look up the helicopter issue you mentioned.
> Apparently it isn't uncommon for Governments to cancel contracts, Kevin Rudd did exactly the same thing in 2008, on the grounds they were unsafe and not fit for purpose.
> 
> 
> ...



Just out of interest who ordered these seasprite choppers?


----------



## sptrawler (11 December 2021)

Humid said:


> Just out of interest who ordered these seasprite choppers?



Obviously some other idiot, we seem to have a bottomless pit of them, in Canberra.


----------



## SirRumpole (11 December 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Obviously some other idiot, we seem to have a bottomless pit of them, in Canberra.



I wonder how much say the military hsve on defence purchases or whether its left to the accountants.


----------



## sptrawler (11 December 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> I wonder how much say the military hsve on defence purchases or whether its left to the accountants.



It would be interesting to know, there seems to be an awful lot of really bad purchases made, to me it seems sensible to buy what has a good track record, good backup and is compatible with your allies so that parts would be interchangeable in battle field. it would simplify the supply chain heaps.
Having said that, I was involved in a project where we had to source a plc to replace the hard wired control systems, on our engine auxilliary control panels. 
We sourced a local company, to support local industry, they went broke 12 months later so that was a waste of time.


----------



## SirRumpole (13 December 2021)

Taxes always higher under Labor ?

No.









						Fact check: Are the two highest-taxing governments of the past 30 years both Coalition governments?
					

Shadow Treasurer Jim Chalmers says the two highest-taxing governments of the past 30 years have been Coalition governments, including the current one. Is that correct? RMIT ABC Fact Check investigates.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## wayneL (13 December 2021)

SirRumpole said:


> Taxes always higher under Labor ?
> 
> No.
> 
> ...



There are a few caveats in that article and I think there are a few other vectors apart from actual taxation rates in the near term.

I like to think of things in terms of what actions will lead to future higher taxation, whether that be imposed by Liebor, or Lieberal.

But, that paints this current LNP government as the worst ever IMO. It doesn't mean I trust Albozo et al to do any better.

We need either a/ a new solution, or b/ the most disruptive Senate this country has ever seen.

Rusted on voting will achieve neither and cement our decent into to abyss.


----------



## mullokintyre (16 December 2021)

Move over Scomo, here comes Anal.

Mick


----------



## Humid (16 December 2021)

A Murdoch consigliere to run the ACCC? How very Australian — and very wrong
					

Gina Cass-Gottlieb is more than just a mate of the Murdochs. She's a director of the family trust. It's highly improper for her to head up the competition regulator.




					www.crikey.com.au
				



foxtel amongst the chickens


----------



## Humid (16 December 2021)

Budget is spinning out of control
					

The extraordinary $300 billion of emergency COVID-19 spending has desensitised politicians – and possibly the public – to  multibillion-dollar cost blowouts.




					www.afr.com


----------



## moXJO (16 December 2021)

Humid said:


> Budget is spinning out of control
> 
> 
> The extraordinary $300 billion of emergency COVID-19 spending has desensitised politicians – and possibly the public – to  multibillion-dollar cost blowouts.
> ...



Labor needs to brown nose the Chinese to get relations back. I'd rather see trade then US warmongering.


----------



## Knobby22 (3 January 2022)

Who deserves Australian of the year? Good to see Newscorp pushing the obvious contender.


----------



## rederob (4 January 2022)

Scomo fails on covid response yet again.

Maybe nobody told Morrison that the PCR rebate for a test is $100 and that if RAT tests were free they could save at least $85 (based on retail cost) per test.  (There are websites showing bulk orders come down to well under one dollar per unit, and these are for TGA's best rated "very high sensitivity" devices.) 
Aside from an economic brain failure, the writing has been on the wall for a year regarding the utility of RAT tests (also called lateral flow tests or point of care tests).  Overseas experience, notably from the UK, led to greater social freedoms earlier and also avoided the need for ongoing lockdowns.  Scomo wants to run his own race at our cost.


----------



## basilio (6 January 2022)

*Maybe nobody told Morrison that the PCR rebate for a test is $100, Redrob*

Wow ! Somebody is making an absolute mint on these tests.

By the way are people aware that until very recently the PCR tests were done with batch testing ? Essentially 20 plus tests were tested as one ,  If there was no positive result then all patients were clear. Obviously if there was a positive result they had to redo the tests for smaller numbers to isolate the COVID positive result.

When there was only 1% positive results this worked liked a charm. And of course each test was returning $100...

However when the positivity rate jumped to 20% plus the batch testing process can't be done. So suddenly the labs have to actually process every  single test.  This is why the labs have had to stop/slow down PCR testing.









						COVID testing delays to continue for weeks as Australia encounters rapid antigen test 'disaster'
					

Australians are being warned to expect to see long COVID-19 testing queues and wait times for at least several more weeks, as pathology labs continue to be hit by huge demand and staff shortages around the country.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## basilio (6 January 2022)

Why is this totally unsurprising  ?

ScoMo Just Got Caught Out In A Bizarre Lie About Buying His Own RATs​
by Millie Roberts  6 January 2022







Want more Junkee in your life? Sign up to our newsletter, and follow us on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook so you always know where to find us.

Scott Morrison has tangled himself up after it was revealed he’s never actually bought his own rapid antigen test, and that the kits are readily available for free in Parliament House.

Last month, a journalist asked him about making RAT kits free and easier to access, amid stock shortages and price gouging concerns that have since only gotten worse across the country.

Related



 Scott Morrison Has Completely Cooked It Over Rapid Antigen Tests

*“I got a COVID test at the local pharmacy at Terrigal, picked one up, took the test, it was negative,” he replied during a press conference on December 22. “I didn’t need the government to tell me to do anything.”

However, News Corp confirmed on Thursday have since confirmed a member of the Prime Minister’s team bought the aforementioned RAT kit in NSW’s Central Coast. “The Prime Minister’s chauffeur-driven car pulled up at the chemist, and Mr Morrison remained in the car while his staffer popped inside to buy him the test,” they reported.*









						ScoMo Just Got Caught Out In A Bizarre Lie About Buying His Own RATs
					

Sir, what?




					junkee.com


----------



## Humid (7 January 2022)




----------



## Humid (7 January 2022)

And he's gone to the cricket for a giggle


----------



## Humid (7 January 2022)




----------



## Humid (7 January 2022)

He said "Australians living with covid,taking wickets with covid"
After last night in NSW 11 people arnt living with it anymore
What an absolute farking moron


----------



## Humid (11 January 2022)

Over 120 tanks, armoured vehicles secured
					

Australia has secured 127 tanks and armoured vehicles under two projects which the defence minister says will prove critical to future land operations.




					www.perthnow.com.au
				




Well we haven't deployed one since Vietnam but hey


----------



## The Triangle (11 January 2022)

Humid said:


> Over 120 tanks, armoured vehicles secured
> 
> 
> Australia has secured 127 tanks and armoured vehicles under two projects which the defence minister says will prove critical to future land operations.
> ...



Labor vote and you'll get a high speed train from Sydney to Melbourne.   Yes, all the contracts will be awarded to corrupt bikie/union associates of labor but at least we'll get something useful.  Vote for libs and we'll end up with tanks?  This is complete corruption.  We do not need tanks.   Who are we defending ourselves from?   They'll probably be used to kill our own citizens before killing any foreign army. 

Amazing that people still support a republic with these degenerates running our government.  Terrible idea... let's add even more of these pigs...  I'd gladly replace all of them with Will and Kate.  And Andrew would fit right in with the Hillsong liberals and nationals.


----------



## Humid (11 January 2022)

The Triangle said:


> Labor vote and you'll get a high speed train from Sydney to Melbourne.   Yes, all the contracts will be awarded to corrupt bikie/union associates of labor but at least we'll get something useful.  Vote for libs and we'll end up with tanks?  This is complete corruption.  We do not need tanks.   Who are we defending ourselves from?   They'll probably be used to kill our own citizens before killing any foreign army.
> 
> Amazing that people still support a republic with these degenerates running our government.  Terrible idea... let's add even more of these pigs...  I'd gladly replace all of them with Will and Kate.  And Andrew would fit right in with the Hillsong liberals and nationals.



A union run job will be safer and award good pay and conditions and the money will be spent here.
A LNP labour hire job will be poor pay and conditions and the money will go to corperates


----------



## wayneL (11 January 2022)

The Triangle said:


> Labor vote and you'll get a high speed train from Sydney to Melbourne.   Yes, all the contracts will be awarded to corrupt bikie/union associates of labor but at least we'll get something useful.  Vote for libs and we'll end up with tanks?  This is complete corruption.  We do not need tanks.   Who are we defending ourselves from?   They'll probably be used to kill our own citizens before killing any foreign army.
> 
> Amazing that people still support a republic with these degenerates running our government.  Terrible idea... let's add even more of these pigs...  I'd gladly replace all of them with Will and Kate.  And Andrew would fit right in with the Hillsong liberals and nationals.



Unfortunately we'll have to endure the insufferable Charles first 

And one can only dread what sort of republican model this lot of petty tyrants and incompetents would dream up.


----------



## Tisme (11 January 2022)

Humid said:


> A union run job will be safer and award good pay and conditions and the money will be spent here.
> A LNP labour hire job will be poor pay and conditions and the money will go to corperates



One of the only private organisations capable of funding a project this size is CBUS and maybe some dollars from QIC . That would mean EBA conditions and rates. LNP can't allow that to happen on principle.


----------



## SirRumpole (11 January 2022)

The Triangle said:


> Labor vote and you'll get a high speed train from Sydney to Melbourne.




Another Grand Design doomed to failure ?









						'Move on': Report pours cold water on renewed calls for high-speed east coast rail
					

Australia should abandon the idea of a bullet train and governments should stop wasting public money to study proposals, according to a new report by the Grattan Institute.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## Humid (11 January 2022)

Like the NBN Labor will kick it off and with the Libs you will end up with a steam driven loco to Penrith


----------



## The Triangle (11 January 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> Another Grand Design doomed to failure ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Do you know why people work for places like the Grattan Institute?  It's because they are generally useless and can't cut it in private industry.  It was pretty well set-up by ex McKiney people and politicians.  It's about the same as having Ghislaine Maxwell set-up a womens shelter.  The entire premise of these institutes is to have a relaxing job and cause as much confusion and doubt as possible (just like management consultants) to enable them to receive more funding to sort out the confusion and doubt that they created with their incompetence. 

It's not always about recouping costs and being zero carbon.   Australia would be better off with high speed train links.  And these kinds of studies can be manipulated in any way to produce whatever outcome you want.  Change cost of capital, adjust population estimates, increase or decrease this rate, that rate, this forecast that forecast.

Our politicians need some kind of vision for Australia beyond drinking piss, watching sport, and funneling money to their mates.  What has the federal government done in the past 15 years?  NBN?  Subs?  Anything else for all the debt we incurred (especially under the supposedly fiscally responsible right leaning liberals)


----------



## SirRumpole (11 January 2022)

The Triangle said:


> Do you know why people work for places like the Grattan Institute?  It's because they are generally useless and can't cut it in private industry.  It was pretty well set-up by ex McKiney people and politicians.  It's about the same as having Ghislaine Maxwell set-up a womens shelter.  The entire premise of these institutes is to have a relaxing job and cause as much confusion and doubt as possible (just like management consultants) to enable them to receive more funding to sort out the confusion and doubt that they created with their incompetence.
> 
> It's not always about recouping costs and being zero carbon.   Australia would be better off with high speed train links.  And these kinds of studies can be manipulated in any way to produce whatever outcome you want.  Change cost of capital, adjust population estimates, increase or decrease this rate, that rate, this forecast that forecast.
> 
> Our politicians need some kind of vision for Australia beyond drinking piss, watching sport, and funneling money to their mates.  What has the federal government done in the past 15 years?  NBN?  Subs?  Anything else for all the debt we incurred (especially under the supposedly fiscally responsible right leaning liberals)




Can you provide a cost benefit analysis that says high speed rail is worth the cost ?

If it is, then I'd certainly support it.


----------



## moXJO (11 January 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> Can you provide a cost benefit analysis that says high speed rail is worth the cost ?
> 
> If it is, then I'd certainly support it.



And whatever the cost estimate, remember to x5....


----------



## The Triangle (11 January 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> Can you provide a cost benefit analysis that says high speed rail is worth the cost ?
> 
> If it is, then I'd certainly support it.



That was exactly my point.  You can't do an accurate cost benefit analysis.  And even if you could, not everything the government does should be viewed in terms of cost benefit.  I could use cost benefit analysis to justify capital punishment, forced sterilisation, all kinds of things we wouldn't generally accept as a society (well I don't mind death penalty)  Is there a positive cost benefit analysis on welfare?  submarines? tanks? job keeper payments to Harvey Norman?  A statue in a park? 

As an aside - Sydney Opera house was probably regarded as one of the biggest project management failures of all time.   If they knew the true cost at the time it would never have been built.  Doubt it will ever pay itself back.  But I'd be willing to bet that most people today are glad it was built.    I think cost estimates need to be accurate - but they don't always need to show that they 'make money' for the government.


----------



## wayneL (11 January 2022)

The Triangle said:


> That was exactly my point.  You can't do an accurate cost benefit analysis.  And even if you could, not everything the government does should be viewed in terms of cost benefit.  I could use cost benefit analysis to justify capital punishment, forced sterilisation, all kinds of things we wouldn't generally accept as a society (well I don't mind death penalty)  Is there a positive cost benefit analysis on welfare?  submarines? tanks? job keeper payments to Harvey Norman?  A statue in a park?
> 
> As an aside - Sydney Opera house was probably regarded as one of the biggest project management failures of all time.   If they knew the true cost at the time it would never have been built.  Doubt it will ever pay itself back.  But I'd be willing to bet that most people today are glad it was built.    I think cost estimates need to be accurate - but they don't always need to show that they 'make money' for the government.



It kind of reminds me of my Range Rover. I absolutely love it, but holy sh¹t the $$$


----------



## SirRumpole (11 January 2022)

The Triangle said:


> That was exactly my point.  You can't do an accurate cost benefit analysis.  And even if you could, not everything the government does should be viewed in terms of cost benefit.  I could use cost benefit analysis to justify capital punishment, forced sterilisation, all kinds of things we wouldn't generally accept as a society (well I don't mind death penalty)  Is there a positive cost benefit analysis on welfare?  submarines? tanks? job keeper payments to Harvey Norman?  A statue in a park?
> 
> As an aside - Sydney Opera house was probably regarded as one of the biggest project management failures of all time.   If they knew the true cost at the time it would never have been built.  Doubt it will ever pay itself back.  But I'd be willing to bet that most people today are glad it was built.    I think cost estimates need to be accurate - but they don't always need to show that they 'make money' for the government.



I'm not sure you can compare a work of art with facilities that are supposed to provide a practical benefit (as distinct from a profit) however I agree that money return isn't everything.

However in order to spread the benefits around, the train would gavd to stop at a number of regional locations, otherwise the benefits will be restricted to the cities as is the case with the airlines, but obviously it will no longer be a 'high speed link.


----------



## Humid (11 January 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> Can you provide a cost benefit analysis that says high speed rail is worth the cost ?
> 
> If it is, then I'd certainly support it.



To the people of west oz.....=0


----------



## wayneL (11 January 2022)

The Triangle said:


> That was exactly my point.  You can't do an accurate cost benefit analysis.  And even if you could, not everything the government does should be viewed in terms of cost benefit.  I could use cost benefit analysis to justify capital punishment, forced sterilisation, all kinds of things we wouldn't generally accept as a society (well I don't mind death penalty)  Is there a positive cost benefit analysis on welfare?  submarines? tanks? job keeper payments to Harvey Norman?  A statue in a park?
> 
> As an aside - Sydney Opera house was probably regarded as one of the biggest project management failures of all time.   If they knew the true cost at the time it would never have been built.  Doubt it will ever pay itself back.  But I'd be willing to bet that most people today are glad it was built.    I think cost estimates need to be accurate - but they don't always need to show that they 'make money' for the government.



No these things to not have to show they make money for the government at all, but they should show some sort of benefit for society, and perhaps the overall local economy.

I think the Sydney opera House does that in terms of overall economic benefit, because of the positive externalities, if I'm using the right phrase there.

Something like a fast rail service has purely economic implications and possibly some negative externalities.

Therefore it cannot be compared to something like the opera House.

But perhaps there could be some overall economic/social benefits, I don't know really, but I doubt it at this stage.


----------



## sptrawler (11 January 2022)

In Japan tbe high speed trains dont replace tbe normal trains, they compliment them.
The shinkansen runs between major population towns, the normal speed picks up the smaller towns. It works well, but the population densities are much greater than here, whether it would be sensible here is dubious.
Maybe Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane interconnect, but smaller populations would be dubious IMO and even the above would take years to justify itself on patronage IMO.
Having high speed from Sydney to Newcastle sounds like pork barreling, why not Melbourne to Geelong, Brisbane to sunshine coast or gold coast, Perth to Bunbury etc.


----------



## wayneL (11 January 2022)

Let me ask this question. What would stop me getting in my car and driving a couple of hours to Bunbury, as opposed to hopping on a fast train even if it was faster?

The answer is the connections at the other end... even getting to the terminus at the Perth end.

How do I get around Bunbury once I  alight at the other end?

it would seem to me that are fast train link would be completly contingent upon a comprehensive and *safe public transport system at the other end.

Does that exist, can it exist within the confines of the current paradigm?

I think not.

Therefore, there is not just the cost of the fast link between centres, but also the distribution systems at each end.

That is an additional cost which I do not think the bureaucrats are taking into account _in toto_.

we do suffer The tyranny of distance in Australia which affect the economics of any such schemes. IMNTCHO


----------



## The Triangle (11 January 2022)

sptrawler said:


> In Japan tbe high speed trains dont replace tbe normal trains, they compliment them.
> The shinkansen runs between major population towns, the normal speed picks up the smaller towns. It works well, but the population densities are much greater than here, whether it would be sensible here is dubious.
> Maybe Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane interconnect, but smaller populations would be dubious IMO and even the above would take years to justify itself on patronage IMO.
> Having high speed from Sydney to Newcastle sounds like pork barreling, why not Melbourne to Geelong, Brisbane to sunshine coast or gold coast, Perth to Bunbury etc.



Have to start somewhere,  I don't really care that much, but would rather infrastructure spending over tanks and handouts.  Could build a lot of fire stations and fire trucks, flood barriers, whatever.  Government infrastructure projects will never ever make the majority happy, as you get the 'why is this not in my backyard first' crowd.   I just think its the best bang for your buck and in 10, 20, 50 years it's still there. 

Perth-Bunbury wouldn't work, can't smoke meth on the train.


----------



## wayneL (11 January 2022)

The Triangle said:


> Have to start somewhere,  I don't really care that much, but would rather infrastructure spending over tanks and handouts.  Could build a lot of fire stations and fire trucks, flood barriers, whatever.  Government infrastructure projects will never ever make the majority happy, as you get the 'why is this not in my backyard first' crowd.   I just think its the best bang for your buck and in 10, 20, 50 years it's still there.
> 
> Perth-Bunbury wouldn't work, can't smoke meth on the train.



And in one fell swoop you have highlighted the problem of public transport.


----------



## Knobby22 (11 January 2022)

I am pretty sure the Melbourne/Sydney flight route is the second busiest in the world. Surely a fast train route would work rather than building additional runways and terminals in Sydney and Melbourne which is presently occurring. 

Maybe there are better infrastructure investments but I can't think of any at present. I can't understand how Europe can install an extensive tram and fast train system yet we still run  basically 19th century train route between Melbourne and Sydney that takes over 12 hours. I know as I used it once. May as well be a steam train its so slow.


----------



## sptrawler (11 January 2022)

The Triangle said:


> Have to start somewhere,  I don't really care that much, but would rather infrastructure spending over tanks and handouts.  Could build a lot of fire stations and fire trucks, flood barriers, whatever.  Government infrastructure projects will never ever make the majority happy, as you get the 'why is this not in my backyard first' crowd.   I just think its the best bang for your buck and in 10, 20, 50 years it's still there.
> 
> Perth-Bunbury wouldn't work, can't smoke meth on the train.



Agree I just think if you are going to put in high speed train, it needs to be really high speed train and that really needs to service large populations.
,  A high speed regional train that stops every 10 to 15 minutes is a waste of time IMO, it needs to be able to replace aircraft, not just speed up an existing country service that can be done by improving rolling stock.
If you are going to introduce nation building infrastructure, do it once do it right.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (11 January 2022)

wayneL said:


> Let me ask this question. What would stop me getting in my car and driving a couple of hours to Bunbury, as opposed to hopping on a fast train even if it was faster?
> 
> The answer is the connections at the other end... even getting to the terminus at the Perth end.
> 
> ...



I must admit I would prefer atm that money was spent on weapons and self defence.

Rather than high powered trains which would only allow the bogans and rich of Sydney and Melbourne to mate and play football or soccer with each other. There is sufficient strife in the world as there is without the different tribes and religions from those cities having a go at each other more easily. 

Building up the ADF to be a well equipped fighting force in the region would be preferable to me. 

Remember that if an enemy does come in and take over, the first thing they will do a la Comrade Pol Pot is empty Sydney and Melbourne. This would of course be facilitated by a fast train. So in a way building a fast train would be aiding the enemy. 

As much as that would not greatly affect me here in NQ, I do have friends and relations in those cities who I love and admire, and would hate to see them come to harm. 

I would prefer to see mayhem and mischief confined to the boarding areas at Mascot and Tullamarine airports, as it is presently,  rather than on a train subsidised by my taxes. 

gg


----------



## Humid (12 January 2022)

The Triangle said:


> Labor vote and you'll get a high speed train from Sydney to Melbourne.   Yes, all the contracts will be awarded to corrupt bikie/union associates of labor but at least we'll get something useful.  Vote for libs and we'll end up with tanks?  This is complete corruption.  We do not need tanks.   Who are we defending ourselves from?   They'll probably be used to kill our own citizens before killing any foreign army.
> 
> Amazing that people still support a republic with these degenerates running our government.  Terrible idea... let's add even more of these pigs...  I'd gladly replace all of them with Will and Kate.  And Andrew would fit right in with the Hillsong liberals and nationals.



Can you think of any ex Lib ministers lobbying for arms makers?


----------



## mullokintyre (12 January 2022)

The only way Scomo will support a VFT is if it is run by someone from Hillsong.
Morrison has gone against one of the liberals revered elders, ex Pm Howard in his backing of a candidate for the seat of Dobell.



> Scott Morrison and former prime minister John Howard have endorsed different candidates for the vital marginal seat of Dobell, as members of the NSW Liberal Party express their concern about the threat of ongoing preselection delays to their ability to retain government.
> With no candidates selected in 10 critical NSW seats, Liberal senator Concetta Fierravanti-Wells offered a stark warning, saying the party’s ability to contest the next election was in jeopardy unless immediate action was taken to select candidates.
> A rare, glowing endorsement written by Mr Howard for St Vincent’s Hospital cardiologist Michael Feneley labels him an “outstanding person” and an “ideal candidate”.
> Penned to NSW state executive director Chris Stone in August, Mr Howard said: “I strong support Professor Michael Feneley’s bid to receive Liberal Party endorsement.
> ...



Fernely would be a better choice, even if it is to only enable someone to answer in the affirmative when one poses the question " Is there a Doctor in the House?".
Mick

Mick


----------



## SirRumpole (12 January 2022)

mullokintyre said:


> The only way Scomo will support a VFT is if it is run by someone from Hillsong.
> Morrison has gone against one of the liberals revered elders, ex Pm Howard in his backing of a candidate for the seat of Dobell.
> 
> 
> ...



Why the Libs are in trouble.. Howard is right of course, but merit will lose out to the feminist and old mates vote.

Why would you vote for these idiots ?


----------



## Logique2 (12 January 2022)

Quite. There'll be a record vote for small parties eg Lib Dems and indeps.
Which will play into Labor's hands.

Mainstream voters hope for a Michael Feneley, but they end up with a Trent Zimmerman or Dave Sharma.

As for very fast trains, they seem to become important on a 4 year cycle..


----------



## wayneL (12 January 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> Why the Libs are in trouble.. Howard is right of course, but merit will lose out to the feminist and old mates vote.
> 
> Why would you vote for these idiots ?



One shouldn't vote for idiots at all, and by rights that should count out both the LNP and Lab/Green axis.

But of course most people will continue to vote for one lot of idiots for the other.

Our only hope as a nation is for some of the minors to have a strong showing, at least in the Senate.

Otherwise, I feel we are absolutely farked as a liberal democracy.


----------



## Knobby22 (12 January 2022)

wayneL said:


> One shouldn't vote for idiots at all, and by rights that should count out both the LNP and Lab/Green axis.
> 
> But of course most people will continue to vote for one lot of idiots for the other.
> 
> ...



If the Independents controlling the country are the Greens and the United Australia Party, then that will be worse.


----------



## wayneL (12 January 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> If the Independents controlling the country are the Greens and the United Australia Party, then that will be worse.



If you notice I did include the Greens in my cabal of idiots.

If your point is that you do not like the UAP or Greens, that is your opinion which you are entitled to. But they are not the only viable minor parties.

As for me, I have excluded from consideration the LNP, Greens, and Labor (probably forever)

I do have a favoured minor at the moment, but waiting till we get closer to the election. Criteria will be likely chance of success and reasonably close to my personal and reasonable ideology.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (12 January 2022)

wayneL said:


> One shouldn't vote for idiots at all, and by rights that should count out both the LNP and Lab/Green axis.
> 
> But of course most people will continue to vote for one lot of idiots for the other.
> 
> ...



It is also every Australian's right to spoil their vote. 

Voting for none of the useless idiots. 

gg


----------



## wayneL (12 January 2022)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> It is also every Australian's right to spoil their vote.
> 
> Voting for none of the useless idiots.
> 
> gg



True.

But that does take away one small opportunity to check the current totalitarian @ssholes.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (12 January 2022)

wayneL said:


> True.
> 
> But that does take away one small opportunity to check the current totalitarian @ssholes.



A useless idiot is as bad as a useful idiot.

If more people spoiled their votes in Australia people might actually start to give a rats.

e.g. "You got elected on 35% of the votes = You do not have a mandate.

So if you don't show effort in fixing crime, or corruption e.g., then go, and if you don't go ...."

gg


----------



## Logique2 (12 January 2022)

Not even a member of the party, just making a point. 
Apparently in ScoMo world, someone so well credentialled couldn't posssible stack up against a Pentecostal preacher as candidate for Dobell:

From:_ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Feneley
"[Michael]Feneley has been the Director of Cardiology at St Vincent's Hospital, Sydney, since 1993...On 11 June 2012, Feneley was named a Member of the Order of Australia for "service to medicine in the field of cardiology as a clinician, researcher and educator, through contributions to professional organisations, and to the community."[1].."

"..He served as president of the Art Gallery Society of New South Wales Council, the Art Gallery of New South Wales membership organisation, from 2006 to 2010.  Prior to this he served as vice-president from 2005 to 2006 and has been a member since 2002.
He has also served as Chair of the East Coast Theatre Company for several years..."_


----------



## wayneL (12 January 2022)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> A useless idiot is as bad as a useful idiot.
> 
> If more people spoiled their votes in Australia people might actually start to give a rats.
> 
> ...



LMAO.... Mandate?

Is even 51% a mandate? 

Mandates in Australia are claimed but not given and the whole concept of a mandate is disingenuous tripe.

Our system of government should be representative and indeed that is the purpose the Senate, although very imperfectly. Otherwise what you have is a democratic dictatorship.

If we don't want to have a democratic dictatorship then what we need is, if we are not mature enough to vote outside of the majors in the Reps, at least a strong crossbench of minord in the Senate.

Anything else is evidence of a very tribalistic electorate, and that is not a healthy democracy at all.

As to your point regarding spoiling ballots, I do have a lot of sympathy with that view. Part of the malais of our current electoral system is the imposition of mandatory voting.

A spoilt ballot is in fact a vote for non-mandatory voting.


----------



## Knobby22 (12 January 2022)

wayneL said:


> LMAO.... Mandate?
> 
> Is even 51% a mandate?
> 
> ...




Also there are plenty of independents at house level that people should consider voting for. Especially if the member chosen is not that well thought of. A few have knocked over sitting MPs recently. 

In fact I would say if you are in a safe seat, Don't vote for the sitting member unless you are really happy with them.


----------



## IFocus (13 January 2022)

The issue is not that we have two majors, actually one major and a coalition of two, between the three they actually represent the vast majority of Australians. 

That representation depends on change, no change then less representation just as we have now the end of a Government with no ideas and no accountability.

 i.e. FFS $40 bil given to foreign interests and for what? 

Nothing.

Independents and minors wont fix that, vote for them if you like but expect another round of Coalition governments will be the result along with no ICAC.


----------



## Humid (15 January 2022)




----------



## Humid (16 January 2022)

A bit of distraction


----------



## Humid (17 January 2022)

Hopefully I'm off to Canada mid year and doing a little research but for the life of me I can't find any visa info
They must run things a little different


----------



## Humid (17 January 2022)

Whats Scamo got against Tonga?


----------



## mullokintyre (17 January 2022)

Humid said:


> View attachment 135949
> 
> Hopefully I'm off to Canada mid year and doing a little research but for the life of me I can't find any visa info
> They must run things a little different



My Nephew, whose partner is Canadian, went home for Christmas. 
They went via LA.
He said it was pretty easy in the USA, no demand for vax certificates, and very few wearing masks in the airport (unlike on the planes).
But he said the Canadians gave them the third degree, and were more than a little suspicious of Aus gov approved vax certificate.
Lucky he also had a paper version to back it up.
He also said it helped that is partner works for the Canadian Embassy.
I am planning on heading to the US in April, so will be able to get a first hand look at what transpires.
Mick


----------



## Humid (17 January 2022)

mullokintyre said:


> My Nephew, whose partner is Canadian, went home for Christmas.
> They went via LA.
> He said it was pretty easy in the USA, no demand for vax certificates, and very few wearing masks in the airport (unlike on the planes).
> But he said the Canadians gave them the third degree, and were more than a little suspicious of Aus gov approved vax certificate.
> ...



Daughter is a resident.....not seen her for over 3 years


----------



## moXJO (17 January 2022)

Humid said:


> Daughter is a resident.....not seen her for over 3 years



Canada?
Just put "Non binary" in your passport and you're a shoe in.


----------



## Humid (17 January 2022)

moXJO said:


> Canada?
> Just put "Non binary" in your passport and you're a shoe in.



Legal weed man....


----------



## moXJO (17 January 2022)

Humid said:


> Legal weed man....



They need it.


----------



## Humid (17 January 2022)




----------



## sptrawler (17 January 2022)

mullokintyre said:


> I am planning on heading to the US in April, so will be able to get a first hand look at what transpires.
> Mick



You will have to let us know how it goes, the wife and I had a trip to the U.S booked for 2020, then covid hit.


----------



## Logique2 (17 January 2022)

Next time is the unloseable for Albo surely?  He needs to throw everything at this. 

Unthinkable this mob would get a fourth term.


----------



## moXJO (17 January 2022)

Logique2 said:


> Next time is the unloseable for Albo surely?  He needs to throw everything at this.
> 
> Unthinkable this mob would get a fourth term.



All he has to do is shut up till the election. Nothing but sensible policy.

Let's face it, when it comes to talking your way into losing an election. Then Labor is the "super variant" of stupidity. Better to keep your mouth shut then alert everyone how much lower on the scale you are. 

I honestly think independents will get a good run.


----------



## sptrawler (17 January 2022)

moXJO said:


> All he has to do is shut up till the election. Nothing but sensible policy.
> 
> Let's face it, when it comes to talking your way into losing an election. Then Labor is the "super variant" of stupidity. Better to keep your mouth shut then alert everyone how much lower on the scale you are.



Is that along the lines of, "you are far better off saying nothing and having everyone think you're an idiot, than opening your mouth and confirming it"? 😂 
Albo has done o.k so far, even when he has had something to say he hasn't screamed it from the roof tops, so they should be a shoe in at the election IMO.


----------



## basilio (17 January 2022)

*    Government deports itself for stoking anti-vax sentiment      * 





The Australian Federal Government has told itself it must leave the country immediately, after it was found to be openly ‘stoking anti-vaccination sentiment’.

In a statement this morning, Immigration Minister Alex Hawke conceded the Government is a risk to civil order and public health given at least two of its members have been openly posting anti-vaccination articles on social media.                                                                                

George Christensen called for civil disobedience in response to vaccination rules and appeared on the television show of US conspiracy theorist Alex Jones. Gerard Rennick shared dozens of anti-vaccination posts, including one from a prominent anti-vax leader who has previously called for the execution of Jacinda Ardern. Alex Antic voted with One Nation to scrap vaccination mandates and allegedly misled the Prime Minister on his own vaccination status.  

“Given the Government’s high-profile status and position as a role model in the broader community, its ongoing presence in Australia may foster similar disregard for the precautionary requirements following receipt of a positive COVID-19 test in Australia,” Mr Hawke said.

The Government has a right to launch an appeal, but it is believed that it will make it as difficult as possible for itself by cunningly delaying proceedings until late on a Friday afternoon. “We can’t help it, it’s just second nature for us to manipulate things like this,” Mr Hawke said.

It is unclear where the Government will go once it is asked to leave Australia given it will not have the right to enter any other countries. “We’ll probably have to just lock ourselves in a hotel in Carlton for nine years,” Hawke said. “Although George Christensen will probably go to The Phillipines”









						Government deports itself for stoking anti-vax sentiment
					

"The Government is a risk to civil order and public health"




					www.theshovel.com.au


----------



## basilio (17 January 2022)

Meanwhile...
Government accused of double standard over Djokovic case and anti-vaccine-mandate MPs​By political reporter Georgia Hitch







Kristina Keneally says Scott Morrison must "call out" government MPs who undermine the vaccine rollout.
Help keep family & friends informed by sharing this article

*Federal Labor is calling on the government to take the same hardline stance against their own MPs who have undermined the vaccine rollout that it did in its approach to Novak Djokovic's visa cancellation and deportation.*
Key points:​
Lawyers for the federal government had argued Djokovic was an "icon" to anti-vaccination groups
The Shadow Home Affairs Minister accused some government MPs of encouraging anti-vaccination sentiment
Scott Morrison rejected the comparison between Djokovic and MPs who oppose to vaccine mandates









						Government told to pull MPs against vaccine mandates into line after Djokovic case
					

Shadow Affairs Minister Kristina Keneally says Scott Morrison cannot be a "wolf … acting all tough" to Novak Djokovic and then "be a lamb" when it comes to his own party room.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## Humid (17 January 2022)




----------



## wayneL (17 January 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Is that along the lines of, "you are far better off saying nothing and having everyone think you're an idiot, than opening your mouth and confirming it"? 😂
> Albo has done o.k so far, even when he has had something to say he hasn't screamed it from the roof tops, so they should be a shoe in at the election IMO.



Yep Albow should be able to win the reps easily in my opinion too.

However the race I am interested in is the Senate. A Liebor majority there would be absolutely disastrous in the worst possible way. And I don't mean that from a party political perspective, I believe it would be equally be disastrous if the LNP controls both houses from the next election too.

We desperately need a substantially larger crossbench... big enough to outvote the LNP/Labor axis if necessary.

Will that happen this time, well I sincerely hope so, but I doubt it. Not enough Australians has woken up to the toxicity of our ludacrous two party system... Or even understand how our preferential voting system works.


----------



## Humid (17 January 2022)

moXJO said:


> Canada?
> Just put "Non binary" in your passport and you're a shoe in.


----------



## Ferret (17 January 2022)

wayneL said:


> We desperately need a substantially larger crossbench... big enough to outvote the LNP/Labor axis if necessary.



Getting the right ones is the problem.

Don't want the ratbags from Greens, UAP, One Nation or Liberal Democrats calling the shots.


----------



## SirRumpole (17 January 2022)

Ferret said:


> Getting the right ones is the problem.
> 
> Don't want the ratbags from Greens, UAP, One Nation or Liberal Democrats calling the shots.




Trouble is that people like Windsor and Oakeshott have retired and there doesn't appear that there are any replacements of the same quality.


----------



## moXJO (17 January 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Is that along the lines of, "you are far better off saying nothing and having everyone think you're an idiot, than opening your mouth and confirming it"? 😂
> Albo has done o.k so far, even when he has had something to say he hasn't screamed it from the roof tops, so they should be a shoe in at the election IMO.



Actually, unions and Sally mcAnus might be the fear factor needed.


----------



## wayneL (17 January 2022)

Ferret said:


> Getting the right ones is the problem.
> 
> Don't want the ratbags from Greens, UAP, One Nation or Liberal Democrats calling the shots.



Name your poison, bruh.

Them, or a majority of the current non-choice of chinless cretins?


----------



## wayneL (17 January 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> Trouble is that people like Windsor and Oakeshott have retired and there doesn't appear that there are any replacements of the same quality.



Quality?


----------



## Humid (17 January 2022)

moXJO said:


> Actually, unions and Sally mcAnus might be the fear factor needed.



Well they can't exactly play the better financial management card ....shirley


----------



## moXJO (17 January 2022)

Humid said:


> Well they can't exactly play the better financial management card ....shirley



They must know they have burnt their base supporters. I honestly can't see how they stand a chance at election. Unless of course they get passed this wave of covid and churn out the pork.


----------



## IFocus (17 January 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> Trouble is that people like Windsor and Oakeshott have retired and there doesn't appear that there are any replacements of the same quality.





Kelly an others like him will likely get in given the money Palmer will throw at the election 
no quality there unfortunately just more Liberal stooges IMHO.


----------



## Ferret (18 January 2022)

wayneL said:


> Name your poison, bruh.
> 
> Them, or a majority of the current non-choice of chinless cretins?



Yep.  Slim pickins.


----------



## Humid (18 January 2022)

Ferret said:


> Yep.  Slim pickins.



lol no exactly slim


----------



## Humid (22 January 2022)

Morrison rejects criticism: “Don’t blame me, I didn’t do anything!”
					

“As the saying goes, failure to plan is someone else's fault, probably Labor’s"




					t.co


----------



## IFocus (26 January 2022)

Australia’s worst-ever corruption score points to urgent need for national integrity commission - TIA
					

Australia’s ranking on Transparency International’s global Corruption Perceptions Index has hit a record low.




					transparency.org.au


----------



## Humid (26 January 2022)

IFocus said:


> Australia’s worst-ever corruption score points to urgent need for national integrity commission - TIA
> 
> 
> Australia’s ranking on Transparency International’s global Corruption Perceptions Index has hit a record low.
> ...



Bloody Craig Thompson again who by the way moxy is a kiwi....


----------



## moXJO (26 January 2022)

Humid said:


> Bloody Craig Thompson again who by the way moxy is a kiwi....



Another ex kiwi corrupted by the union.


----------



## Humid (27 January 2022)




----------



## Knobby22 (27 January 2022)

Humid said:


> View attachment 136614



I want to know why are those two on a plane with a schoolgirl?


----------



## basilio (27 January 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> I want to know why are those two on a plane with a schoolgirl?



Indeed.  Don't think too long about it.

It's an old. OLD  joke with many possible characters.  But the "fall" guy always grabs the wrong package.


----------



## Humid (27 January 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> I want to know why are those two on a plane with a schoolgirl?



looking for a poem for oz day


----------



## orr (27 January 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> I want to know why are those two on a plane with a schoolgirl?



That's a question that would not need to asked if the protagonist were to be  the father of Schmo's leading moral guiding light... Hillsong (knap-sack full'a Dildo's) Pastor Frank Houston...


----------



## divs4ever (27 January 2022)

it wouldn't have mattered to me as long as thew schoolgirl landed safely ( neither of the others could do it  without an accreditation certificate , a safety certificate and an adviser to remind them of the correct sequence of operating the parachute )

 STEP . A.  PUT ON THE PARACHUTE 

STEP B.  TIGHTEN THE STRAPPING 

STEP C. OPEN THE DOOR !!!

 ...........


----------



## moXJO (27 January 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> I want to know why are those two on a plane with a schoolgirl?



There's a bill Shorten joke in there, but I ain't 
touching it.


----------



## Humid (28 January 2022)

Scotty Tells Jenny To Go Over And See Why Grace Isn't Speaking To Him
					

More to come.




					www.betootaadvocate.com
				




Blundstones lol


----------



## moXJO (28 January 2022)

So Dutton ran his mouth about Russia now.
Vote this government out


----------



## Humid (30 January 2022)

31 out of the 52 deaths from covid in NSW yesterday were in aged care and old mate went to the cricket!









						Scott Morrison defends embattled aged care minister against ‘knockers’ amid cricket scandal
					

Prime minister insists Richard Colbeck works ‘every day for the welfare of people living in our residential aged care facilities’




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## sptrawler (30 January 2022)

Humid said:


> 31 out of the 52 deaths from covid in NSW yesterday were in aged care and old mate went to the cricket!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



But I bet he had his Fire Chiefs pager on. 😂


----------



## PZ99 (31 January 2022)

LNP primary vote down to 34 per cent in Newspoll 









						PM Scott Morrison faces electoral wipe-out according to Newspoll
					

Prime Minister Scott Morrison’s government is fighting for its political life according to Newspoll, with popular support plunging to the lowest levels since the 2018 leadership change.




					www.news.com.au


----------



## sptrawler (31 January 2022)

PZ99 said:


> LNP primary vote down to 34 per cent in Newspoll
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This really highlights why Albo can't take it easy, the poll is the worst result since 2018, yet they won in 2019.


----------



## moXJO (31 January 2022)

sptrawler said:


> This really highlights why Albo can't take it easy, the poll is the worst result since 2018, yet they won in 2019.



Yeah happened before. Albo still polling lower then scumo. Good knows what mess we get next. 

Surprised the minor parties haven't picked up more.


----------



## The Triangle (31 January 2022)

moXJO said:


> Yeah happened before. Albo still polling lower then scumo. Good knows what mess we get next.
> 
> Surprised the minor parties haven't picked up more.



Since when have the polls been right in any western nation?  2015?  They're just as corrupt and incompetent as the media.  

The real poll is who do you _dislike less_.  Scomo's best bet to win is that he's up against Albo and Albo's best bet to win is that he's going against Scomo.  I don't think Australians have ever had a more awful choice of garbage candidates who stand for absolutely nothing.


----------



## Humid (31 January 2022)

The Triangle said:


> Since when have the polls been right in any western nation?  2015?  They're just as corrupt and incompetent as the media.
> 
> The real poll is who do you _dislike less_.  Scomo's best bet to win is that he's up against Albo and Albo's best bet to win is that he's going against Scomo.  I don't think Australians have ever had a more awful choice of garbage candidates who stand for absolutely nothing.


----------



## PZ99 (31 January 2022)

sptrawler said:


> This really highlights why Albo can't take it easy, the poll is the worst result since 2018, yet they won in 2019.



Yep.. except Albo is doing the same as Howard in 1993/96: being the polar opposite to their former leaders.

So many parallels with that era.


----------



## moXJO (31 January 2022)

Humid said:


> View attachment 136811



Actually that's not bad odds on libs. Considering they usually pull a rabbit out their a5re at the last minute.

The odds have been wrong the last few elections.


----------



## sptrawler (31 January 2022)

PZ99 said:


> Yep.. except Albo is doing the same as Howard in 1993/96: being the polar opposite to their former leaders.
> 
> So many parallels with that era.



As long as he stays the small target, all should be good, still think he is struggling to get a message out. But there is no way Scomo can overcome the negative press IMO.


----------



## moXJO (31 January 2022)

PZ99 said:


> Yep.. except Albo is doing the same as Howard in 1993/96: being the polar opposite to their former leaders.
> 
> So many parallels with that era.



I don't watch TV news. Is albo on there a lot?
I have no idea what position he has taken, he is basically invisible.

My big fears are what mandates is he going to drop. 
I want libs out, but I'm not exactly cheering that Labor current front bench gets another go. They were utter sht first time around.


----------



## SirRumpole (31 January 2022)

PZ99 said:


> Yep.. except Albo is doing the same as Howard in 1993/96: being the polar opposite to their former leaders.
> 
> So many parallels with that era.




Yes, I heard Albo on Insiders using the exact words Rudd used before he won, *"this reckless spending must stop".*

Looks like he's learned a few lessons.


----------



## wayneL (31 January 2022)

moXJO said:


> Surprised the minor parties haven't picked up more.




”They lie to us, 
we know they're lying, 
they know we know they're lying, 
but they keep lying to us, 
and *we keep pretending to believe them*.” - Elena Gorokhova, from A Mountain of Crumbs.


We collectively get the government we deserve.


----------



## PZ99 (31 January 2022)

moXJO said:


> I don't watch TV news. Is albo on there a lot?
> I have no idea what position he has taken, *he is basically invisible.*



Basically invisible is the position he has taken. 

I don't watch TV at all - last time was probably Bathurst 1000 so I couldn't answer that one


----------



## mullokintyre (31 January 2022)

As if Scomos problems are not huge with most ASF members writing him off, another small problem has surfaced.
The lone coalition Senator from the NT, Sam macMahon has withdrawn from the coalition and will sit with the cross bench in the Senate.
It can hardly be a surprise, given that she was dumped from the No 1 spot  on the coalition senate ticket. which makes her retaining the senate seat almost impossible.
Although her replacement , Janita Price is also a woman, she is aboriginal so gets two points in the  anti white male stakes.
It remains to be seen as to whether she  runs again for the senate again, either as a candidate of one of the minor parties, or becomes (another) independent.
The talk is she is being wooed by Campbell Newman to run for the Liberal Democrats, which probably has a gtreater chance of getting her signature than the Greens, Clive Palmer or Pauline Hansen.
Mick


----------



## macca (31 January 2022)

Libs were $4.00 before the last election so the odds are actually shorter.

Everyone loves a roughie


----------



## Humid (31 January 2022)

macca said:


> Libs were $4.00 before the last election so the odds are actually shorter.
> 
> Everyone loves a roughie



It wasn't odds it was god.....


----------



## macca (31 January 2022)

Humid said:


> It wasn't odds it was god.....




Are you saying that God was on Scomos side?  handy friend to have


----------



## SirRumpole (31 January 2022)

macca said:


> Are you saying that God was on Scomos side?  handy friend to have




Of course, Albo is the AntiChrist.


----------



## Humid (31 January 2022)

macca said:


> Are you saying that God was on Scomos side?  handy friend to have











						Scott Morrison tells Christian conference he was called to do God’s work as prime minister
					

Australia’s first Pentecostal PM says he practises the tradition of ‘laying on of hands’ while working and calls misuse of social media the work of ‘the evil one’




					www.theguardian.com
				



No this dribble.....


----------



## sptrawler (31 January 2022)

I'm just looking forward to a term of labor, let's be honest the Libs are sitting there spinning the wheels going nowhere, they could walk on water and the media would say they rorted the ferry.
So it is pointless having the Libs for another term, the covid thing is as good as done, the debt needs some hard decisions, the Libs ain't going to get them through.
It's time.  
I just hope they hit the top end of town for a change.


----------



## wayneL (1 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> I'm just looking forward to a term of labor, let's be honest the Libs are sitting there spinning the wheels going nowhere, they could walk on water and the media would say they rorted the ferry.
> So it is pointless having the Libs for another term, the covid thing is as good as done, the debt needs some hard decisions, the Libs ain't going to get them through.
> It's time.
> I just hope they hit the top end of town for a change.



They won't, they (both sides) won't stop til the middle class is wiped out. That is, in fact, the greater goal.


----------



## sptrawler (1 February 2022)

wayneL said:


> They won't, they (both sides) won't stop til the middle class is wiped out. That is, in fact, the greater goal.



I suppose the reality is, that productivity increases, when workers are hungry. 
Trying to get people to work, when they don't need the money, is a hard task.


----------



## wayneL (1 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> I suppose the reality is, that productivity increases, when workers are hungry.
> Trying to get people to work, when they don't need the money, is a hard task.



The modern feudal system, just replace Lords and Serfs with Elites and Proles.


----------



## Humid (1 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> I'm just looking forward to a term of labor, let's be honest the Libs are sitting there spinning the wheels going nowhere, they could walk on water and the media would say they rorted the ferry.
> So it is pointless having the Libs for another term, the covid thing is as good as done, the debt needs some hard decisions, the Libs ain't going to get them through.
> It's time.
> I just hope they hit the top end of town for a change.



Or they could just stop rorting


----------



## sptrawler (1 February 2022)

Humid said:


> Or they could just stop rorting



That's why 90% go into politics, it'll never happen. From council level, right through to the Feds.


----------



## Humid (1 February 2022)

ICAC got the rats jumping in NSW


----------



## sptrawler (1 February 2022)

Humid said:


> ICAC got the rats jumping in NSW



From what I've read, it's only as good as your ICAC. 😂 The fox watching over the hen house, wash rinse repeat.
Politics a game of snakes and ladders, one minute ICAC is leading, the next the Govt is leading. 🤪 
https://www.9news.com.au/national/q...tzgerald/13c0ef11-9791-455c-8884-35b1c321f442
The Queensland Crime and Corruption Commission (CCC) will be investigated in a formal Commission of Inquiry for the first time in the body's 30-year history.
The CCC has recently been under increasing scrutiny, with chair Alan MacSporran resigning last week after fraud charges imposed by the corruption watchdog were dropped against several former Queensland councillors.
Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk said the inquiry came off the back of a tabled report by the Parliamentary Crime and Corruption Committee (PCCC) and would probe its "enormous" investigatory and charging functions.
Ms Palaszczuk said the six-month inquiry would be led by Tony Fitzgerald QC who revealed systemic corruption in the state through the the Fitzgerald Inquiry in the 1980s.
This led to the creation of the CCC as it is now known.


----------



## sptrawler (1 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> I'm just looking forward to a term of labor, let's be honest the Libs are sitting there spinning the wheels going nowhere, they could walk on water and the media would say they rorted the ferry.
> So it is pointless having the Libs for another term, the covid thing is as good as done, the debt needs some hard decisions, the Libs ain't going to get them through.
> It's time.
> I just hope they hit the top end of town for a change.



At last it looks like Labor has got back to its roots, good on you Albo.
Shows what can be done, when Labor gets back to its roots and stops promoting lawyers to the top job IMO.
He is talking the talk, time will tell, if he walks the walk.








						Albanese to target global companies in tax slug
					

In a clear sign he will unveil tougher tax rules, Labor leader Anthony Albanese named multinational companies as a group that could pay more tax.




					www.theage.com.au
				



Global companies will be told to pay their fair share of tax in a Labor plan to raise revenue without putting a bigger load on households, while bigger taxes for family trusts are also on the agenda ahead of the federal election.

In a clear sign he will unveil tougher tax rules, Labor leader Anthony Albanese named multinational companies as one group that could pay more tax under changes he is thinking about but has not yet announced.
“What we’re interested in is lifting living standards and lifting the cost of living pressures off ordinary wage-earners,” he said.
“One of the ways you don’t do that is by increasing the burden on them. We want to lift that burden.”


----------



## moXJO (1 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> At last it looks like Labor has got back to its roots, good on you Albo.
> Shows what can be done, when Labor gets back to its roots and stops promoting lawyers to the top job IMO.
> He is talking the talk, time will tell, if he walks the walk.
> 
> ...



Talk is cheap. It's also hard given the structures these companies use. Hockey attempted it not sure much happened.

 Labor could probably get away with a mining tax right now as well. But it's all about the messaging. And that's where they seem to fall down. 

Message it right and you are prime to receive massive support. People seem happy to attack and tax the elites from both sides of the political spectrum of voters. So smash internet Goliath's, mega rich, miners while you have the opportunity.


----------



## PZ99 (1 February 2022)

> They won't, they (both sides) won't stop til the middle class is wiped out. That is, in fact, the greater goal.



What a load of arsebiscuits that "fact" is


----------



## Humid (1 February 2022)

Mining companies dont vote ....the bosses just don the Hi Vis and do the fear bit


----------



## mullokintyre (1 February 2022)

Yea, I can just see Amazon, Apple, Alphabet, Facebook and all the big pharmas just quaking in their boots.
Mick


----------



## IFocus (1 February 2022)

wayneL said:


> They won't, they (both sides) won't stop til the middle class is wiped out. That is, in fact, the greater goal.





How so?

Labor haven't been in government?


----------



## IFocus (1 February 2022)

moXJO said:


> Talk is cheap. It's also hard given the structures these companies use. Hockey attempted it not sure much happened.





Is that the same Joe that couldn't pass a budget?


----------



## Humid (1 February 2022)

Ruperts called it......


----------



## mullokintyre (1 February 2022)

IFocus said:


> How so?
> 
> Labor haven't been in government?



Sad  how quickly KR and JG are forgotten!
Mick


----------



## PZ99 (1 February 2022)

No change in rates - Albo will be piffed.

All rises can only be an ALP responsibility if they get in


----------



## sptrawler (1 February 2022)

PZ99 said:


> No change in rates - Albo will be piffed.
> 
> All rises can only be an ALP responsibility if they get in



I guess there will be some in Sydney/Melbourne, who are playing pass the parcel, will be pleased.
Did they say what underlying inflation is?


----------



## PZ99 (1 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> I guess there will be some in Sydney/Melbourne, who are playing pass the parcel, will be pleased.
> Did they say what underlying inflation is?



2.6%









						Statement by Philip Lowe, Governor: Monetary Policy Decision | Media Releases
					

At its meeting today, the Board decided to maintain the cash rate target at 10 basis points and the interest rate on Exchange Settlement balances at zero per cent. It also decided to cease further purchases under the bond purchase program, with the final purchases to take place on 10 February.




					www.rba.gov.au


----------



## sptrawler (1 February 2022)

PZ99 said:


> 2.6%
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thought it would be higher than that, now that fuel has been up for a while, probably isn't in the basket of goods. 😂


----------



## PZ99 (1 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Thought it would be higher than that, now that fuel has been up for a while, probably isn't in the basket of goods. 😂



Probably measured before the Ukraine thingy


----------



## basilio (2 February 2022)

Grace Tame

@TamePunk

The survival of abuse culture is dependent on submissive smiles and self-defeating surrenders. It is dependent on hypocrisy. My past is only relevant to the extent that I have seen—in fact I have worn—the consequences of civility for the sake of civility.


----------



## sptrawler (2 February 2022)

The one thing for sure in Australia, the P.M isn't the only one becoming fake and phony, I reckon most Australian journo's see a fake and phony person, when they look in the mirror in the morning.
It's becoming a bitter and twisted place Australia and I don't think it will end well. 
Let's guess who "leaked" said information? it wouldn't be someone who wants Morrisons job after the next election would it, Noo.
The sad part is, Albo will be next cab off the rank, hope he can stop the media white anting him, because I bet there are a few lined up for his job when he gets in. 
Many are coming to the twilight of their careers and a nice top up of the final average salary, will be high on many agenda. 🤣


----------



## Humid (2 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> The one thing for sure in Australia, the P.M isn't the only one becoming fake and phony, I reckon most Australian journo's see a fake and phony person, when they look in the mirror in the morning.
> It's becoming a bitter and twisted place Australia and I don't think it will end well.
> Let's guess who "leaked" said information? it wouldn't be someone who wants Morrisons job after the next election would it, Noo.
> The sad part is, Albo will be next cab off the rank, hope he can stop the media white anting him, because I bet there are a few lined up for his job when he gets in.
> Many are coming to the twilight of their careers and a nice top up of the final average salary, will be high on many agenda. 🤣



Fake and phony landed scummo the job to start with


----------



## sptrawler (2 February 2022)

Humid said:


> Fake and phony landed scummo the job to start with



It lands most of them the job, it's just in the past they showed each other a modicum of trust and respect and the media wasn't a circus.
Imagine if your so called mates, started passing on the stuff you say about your boss, the dob someone in treat everyone like trash mentality is taking over in Australia. I just hope people are happy with where it ends, it certainly wont be safe to be old, that's for sure.

I guess another way of looking at it would be, would you or I do the job for $550k/annum? When I was reading today a breakfast radio host is pizzed because he lost his nearly $1m/ annum job. I bet he doesn't get called back from a family holiday to cover bushfires for the radio station, just think of the hassle the last two years have been, how many people are there in Govt? one actually Morrison cops the flack for every department, for $550k.
Like I said, Albo next, it is a hell of a gig for a superannuation scheme, you wouldn't get either of us signing up for it I bet. 

When a society loses respect for authority, it isn't only those in authority, who are treated disrespectfully. The vulnerable usually end up wearing the brunt of it, because they are the easiest targets.  
That's why I hate the media and the ranters and chanters, they stir up hatred and anger, then report on the resulting destruction.


----------



## Humid (2 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> It lands most of them the job, it's just in the past they showed each other a modicum of trust and respect and the media wasn't a circus.
> Imagine if your so called mates, started passing on the stuff you say about your boss, the dob someone in treat everyone like trash mentality is taking over in Australia. I just hope people are happy with where it ends, it certainly wont be safe to be old, that's for sure.



Live by the sword....the b/s media got him the job


----------



## sptrawler (2 February 2022)

Humid said:


> Live by the sword....the b/s media got him the job



As happens with all of them. Albo didn't go to Jenny Craig, get a haircut, glasses and his teeth fixed, for his missus. 🤣


----------



## mullokintyre (2 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> As happens with all of them. Albo didn't go to Jenny Craig, get a haircut, glasses and his teeth fixed, for his missus. 🤣



No, he dumped his missus for a younger model.
Mick


----------



## PZ99 (2 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> The one thing for sure in Australia, the P.M isn't the only one becoming fake and phony, I reckon most Australian journo's see a fake and phony person, when they look in the mirror in the morning.
> It's becoming a bitter and twisted place Australia and I don't think it will end well.
> Let's guess who "leaked" said information? it wouldn't be someone who wants Morrisons job after the next election would it, Noo.



I can't offer a view on the above until I know the texts are real. Something fishy about this one. 

The timing is a red flag big enough to block Godwin Grech's Gatehouse


----------



## sptrawler (2 February 2022)

PZ99 said:


> I can't offer a view on the above until I know the texts are real. Something fishy about this one.
> 
> The timing is a red flag big enough to block Godwin Grech's Gatehouse



I just think the media has become completely out of control, they generate their own news, it started in the Rudd era and it has just continually pushed the boundaries to now, where anything and everything is painted into whatever they wish to portray.
I think it will be terrible for Albo, he doesn't think on his feet as quick as Morrison, IMO the media will have field day it really isn't good for society to have the authorities continually trashed by the media.
The amount of money and sacrifice thrown at this pandemic is unbelievable, with peoples best interests at heart. 
Yet all the media can do, is criticise with hind sight. 
They never criticise their poor projections that scared people to death and which never eventuated, they constantly try to find a negative aspect to absolutely everything. 
To the plebs it must be emotionally draining, the amount of stress related domestic violence, murders and suicides must be through the roof IMO.
Just my opinion and believe me, I am no paragon of virtue.


----------



## SirRumpole (2 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> I think it will be terrible for Albo, he doesn't think on his feet as quick as Morrison,




In other words he's not as good a bull$hitter.

Yes the media are rather feral. There are some good ones who ask sensible questions, but the rest are out to promote themselves.

Most new governments get a honeymoon period, but a government that's been in for 9 years needs a working over imo.


----------



## wayneL (2 February 2022)

The media, and especially the Murdoch media has sandcastle syndrome. they build someone up into the prime ministership only to have a great deal of fun tearing it down again.

It's been a consistent profit model for them so don't expect that to change anytime soon.

They have actually worked out that there is very little profit in genuine journalism, the big bucks being in sensationalism and creating narratives of outrage, even if, almost preferably, it is an outright lie.


----------



## sptrawler (2 February 2022)

I tell you what, someone leaking personal emails like is happening, just tells you exactly what type of people politicians are. 
If that $hit happened in the workplace, someone would end up getting their face filled in. 

Like we keep saying if politicians were nice people, they wouldn't be politicians.👍


----------



## sptrawler (2 February 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> In other words he's not as good a bull$hitter.



Yes I think Albo is old school, which will struggle with the $hithead media, just my thoughts but they take great pleasure in researching something to the enth degree, then bombard the interviewee with questions when it is their field of expertise. Just to ridicule them.



SirRumpole said:


> Yes the media are rather feral. There are some good ones who ask sensible questions, but the rest are out to promote themselves.



Someone mentioned this journo was good, now I see he is hitting the headlines.








						‘Absolutely not’: Network Ten political editor Peter van Onselen responds to allegations
					

Press gallery journalist Tegan George’s allegations that she was denied a safe workplace at the TV station have been denied by van Onselen, who insists he does not have a “woman problem”.




					www.smh.com.au
				






SirRumpole said:


> Most new governments get a honeymoon period, but a government that's been in for 9 years needs a working over imo.



Absolutely agree time for a change, but ridiculous smear campaigns are stupid, during this covid drama I bet people called other people all sorts of things, trying to move blame or gain favours. Reflects really badly on all politicians when they hang out private dirty washing IMO.
I mean let's get real Glady's calling anyone a horrible man, when she just had to chuck her job over the piece of work, she was dating, kind of sums up what a cess pit politics are IMO.


----------



## SirRumpole (2 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Yes I think Albo is old school, which will struggle with the $hithead media, just my thoughts but they take great pleasure in researching something to the enth degree, then bombard the interviewee with questions when it is their field of expertise. Just to ridicule them.
> 
> 
> Someone mentioned this journo was good, now I see he is hitting the headlines.
> ...



Leaking private messages is a low act, just ask Macron. Its certainly embarrassed Gladys, but once a journo has that sort of stuff i doubt if any of them wouldn't release it


----------



## Humid (2 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> I tell you what, someone leaking personal emails like is happening, just tells you exactly what type of people politicians are.
> If that $hit happened in the workplace, someone would end up getting their face filled in.
> 
> Like we keep saying if politicians were nice people, they wouldn't be politicians.👍



It is a workplace and you seem to have a short memory dry balls









						PM points to secret texts as he hits back at French leader over submarine row
					

Scott Morrison cited the text messages as proof that he gave President Emmanuel Macron fair warning the deal would be dumped.




					www.smh.com.au


----------



## sptrawler (2 February 2022)

Humid said:


> It is a workplace and you seem to have a short memory dry balls
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Its supposed to be a bit more high brow than the $hit pits we worked in numnuts.
By the way, I forgot to thankyou, for the dry balls.  👍 
You may have forgotten, but the Frog started the mud slinging, but patriotism never was your strong suit.   Lol
You should take up journalism, you never let accuracy get in the way of you BS.🤣


----------



## Logique2 (2 February 2022)

Not a LNP government deserving of re-election, and Albo can start choosing rhe curtains ar the Lodge.


----------



## Humid (2 February 2022)

Logique2 said:


> Not a LNP government deserving of re-election, and Albo can start choosing rhe curtains ar the Lodge.



A  Rabbitoh in Kirrabilli


----------



## sptrawler (2 February 2022)

A grass roots aussie in Kirrabilli, not a millionaire, not a lawyer, not a salesman, for a change.
Even a broken clock, is right occassionally @Humid . Lol


----------



## wayneL (3 February 2022)

For sheer amusement, I'd love to see UAP horse trading with the majors to form a coalition.... That would be funny


----------



## mullokintyre (3 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> A grass roots aussie in Kirrabilli, not a millionaire, not a lawyer, not a salesman, for a change.
> Even a broken clock, is right occasionally @Humid . Lol



The problem is that Morrison, like Turnbull, Abbott, Howard and Keating all came from NSW.
Rudd from Qld (nuff said).
Hawke, the best Labour PM came from Vic, Gillard, the second best, also came from Vic.
They just keep picking the wrong state.
Mick


----------



## Smurf1976 (3 February 2022)

mullokintyre said:


> The problem is that Morrison, like Turnbull, Abbott, Howard and Keating all came from NSW.
> Rudd from Qld (nuff said).
> Hawke, the best Labour PM came from Vic, Gillard, the second best, also came from Vic.



Looking back at history it's an unfortunate reality that anyone aspiring to become PM basically needs to move somewhere near Sydney or Melbourne in order to do it.

I've nothing against the big two cities but it's a reality that 60% of Australians don't live in or near either of them and a very substantial portion of the nation's real wealth is created in other states and regional areas.


----------



## Humid (4 February 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> Leaking private messages is a low act, just ask Macron. Its certainly embarrassed Gladys, but once a journo has that sort of stuff i doubt if any of them wouldn't release it



Michaelia Cash is very quiet


----------



## SirRumpole (4 February 2022)

Humid said:


> Michaelia Cash is very quiet



For the first time in her life.


----------



## Logique2 (4 February 2022)

P.V.O. settling old scores at the Press Club in the week.

With the added bonus of ingratiating himself back in with The Project lovies, who had rounded on him after his earlier 'Graceless Tame' article.

It was cringeworthy viewing all round, and may come back to haunt P.V.O. reputationally.

Imho the two big Coalition issues people will take to the ballot box in May:
- the bushfires, PM's craven performance
- 180 degrees on climate in the space of three years?


----------



## Humid (4 February 2022)

'Insulting': PM criticised for hair salon photo-op stunt
					






					www.9news.com.au
				




wtf


----------



## mullokintyre (4 February 2022)

Humid said:


> 'Insulting': PM criticised for hair salon photo-op stunt
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Its not official till they start kissing babies.
Mick


----------



## wayneL (4 February 2022)

Logique2 said:


> P.V.O. settling old scores at the Press Club in the week.
> 
> With the added bonus of ingratiating himself back in with The Project lovies, who had rounded on him after his earlier 'Graceless Tame' article.
> 
> ...



Biggest issue for this ex Liberal voter is the eschewing of traditional classical Liberal values and forsaking their core constituency, and failing to bring the petty tyrant premiers to hand.


----------



## IFocus (4 February 2022)

I am really looking forward to the jobs boom and saving at the till from removing penalty rates...


----------



## sptrawler (4 February 2022)

IFocus said:


> I am really looking forward to the jobs boom and saving at the till from removing penalty rates...



I'm not sure the penalty rates have been removed, there are lots of cafe's shut on Sunday's in Mandurah, next time I'm in for a coffee I will ask about penalty rates.




__





						Penalty rates - Fair Work Ombudsman
					

Penalty rates are a higher pay rate that can apply when an employee works evenings, weekends or public holidays. These rates are provided in awards and registered agreements.




					www.fairwork.gov.au


----------



## Humid (4 February 2022)

Can't wait to get back to exploiting foreign workers


----------



## Humid (4 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> I'm not sure the penalty rates have been removed, there are lots of cafe's shut on Sunday's in Mandurah, next time I'm in for a coffee I will ask about penalty rates.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



All casuals 
Sat/Sun same rate


----------



## sptrawler (4 February 2022)

Humid said:


> Can't wait to get back to exploiting foreign workers



Yes I suppose there is that issue coming up soon.


----------



## sptrawler (4 February 2022)

Humid said:


> All casuals
> Sat/Sun same rate



So if you work all week Sat and Sun is penalty rates, if you only work Sat, Sun it is normal time? Interesting there is a guy that runs a coffee shop on Mandurah Terrace, i'll have a chat with him. 👍
If it's true, it blows my idea of only working two days a week.  When the missus was nursing, she only worked Sat, Sun so I could babysit, worked out great same money as Mon to Fri. 👍


----------



## PZ99 (4 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> So if you work all week Sat and Sun is penalty rates, if you only work Sat, Sun it is normal time? Interesting there is a guy that runs a coffee shop on Mandurah Terrace, i'll have a chat with him. 👍



As I understand it for retail Sat and Sun are penalty rates regardless of hours worked during the week.

Sunday used to be higher but was brought back to the Saturday rate.


----------



## sptrawler (4 February 2022)

PZ99 said:


> As I understand it for retail Sat and Sun are penalty rates regardless of hours worked during the week.
> 
> Sunday used to be higher but was brought back to the Saturday rate.



That's what I thought, but Humid and IFocus keep saying that penalty rates have been removed. Like I said I have a coffee most days at a couple of coffee shops, I'm sure they will know, especially the pommie guy he even hates the coffee ute being over the road at the markets on the weekend, so he will definitely know. 🤣


----------



## Humid (4 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> So if you work all week Sat and Sun is penalty rates, if you only work Sat, Sun it is normal time? Interesting there is a guy that runs a coffee shop on Mandurah Terrace, i'll have a chat with him. 👍
> If it's true, it blows my idea of only working two days a week.  When the missus was nursing, she only worked Sat, Sun so I could babysit, worked out great same money as Mon to Fri. 👍



The way I understand is casuals get offered shifts and what day it is sets the rate!


----------



## sptrawler (4 February 2022)

Humid said:


> The way I understand is casuals get offered shifts and what day it is sets the rate!



I thought you said it was a flat rate?
All casuals Sat/Sun flat rate. 
That would suggest, same rate as the rest of the week.


----------



## PZ99 (4 February 2022)

There are exceptions and this is where it gets complex. You can agree to smooth it out and pay a flat rate all week for as long as the overall pay is the same as if the penalties were paid.

Simple example: $20 per hour - Thursday to Monday shift 7.6 hours a day.

Sat and Sun might be $30 an hour (150% penalty rate)

So total weekly pay would be $912 and an average of around $24 an hour.

You can agree to pay the $24 on Sat and Sun as long as it's paid everyday. The idea being that each day costs the same and the shop can open on weekends.

That's just a rough example.... the issue is wayyyyy too many companies (unknowingly or otherwise) were paying the $24 an hour to casuals who work on Sat, Sun and maybe only one other day... so they're underpaid based on the award and fail the BOOT test.

What Fairwork should have done is put up an online calculator for all the different awards and we wouldn't have all this underpaying of staff.


----------



## Humid (4 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> I thought you said it was a flat rate?
> All casuals Sat/Sun flat rate.
> That would suggest, same rate as the rest of the week.



Where boss?


----------



## Humid (4 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> I thought you said it was a flat rate?
> All casuals Sat/Sun flat rate.
> That would suggest, same rate as the rest of the week.



Sat/Sun same rate how's that
No double bubble


----------



## sptrawler (4 February 2022)

Humid said:


> Sat/Sun same rate how's that
> No double bubble



Can't follow what you're saying there.
Is Sat and Sun the same rate as Mon to Fri or different?


----------



## sptrawler (4 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> I'm not sure the penalty rates have been removed, there are lots of cafe's shut on Sunday's in Mandurah, next time I'm in for a coffee I will ask about penalty rates.
> 
> 
> 
> ...






Humid said:


> All casuals
> Sat/Sun same rate



There Boss. From posts #3,218 and #3,219 on previous page.
It would indicate casuals don't get penalty rates for Sat/Sun.
But it could be due to your way of abbreviating everything, to the point of it not making any sense.


----------



## Humid (4 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Can't follow what you're saying there.
> Is Sat and Sun the same rate as Mon to Fri or different?



No


----------



## Humid (4 February 2022)




----------



## sptrawler (4 February 2022)

That looks as though they get penalties for weekends and casuals are on more than permanent staff.


----------



## Humid (4 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> There Boss. From posts #3,218 and #3,219 on previous page.
> It would indicate casuals don't get penalty rates for Sat/Sun.
> But it could be due to your way of abbreviating everything, to the point of it not making any sense.



Well I thought you had been around long enough but...
The rate between Saturday and Sunday was


sptrawler said:


> That looks as though they get penalties for weekends and casuals are on more than permanent staff.



Loading


----------



## sptrawler (4 February 2022)

Humid said:


> Well I thought you had been around long enough but...
> The rate between Saturday and Sunday was
> 
> Loading



Where I worked we were on an annualised salary 25 years ago, day/night, Sat, Sun, Chrismas Day, Easter, didn't make any difference same pay rate.

We got rid of Sunday penalties, when everyone stopped going to listen to Margaret Court, in the Pulpit on Sunday's. 🤣


----------



## sptrawler (4 February 2022)

Does anyone know if McGowan will ScoMo a G@G pass, we have a serious bushfire that needs his attention. 🤣 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-04/denmark-emergency-warning-bushfire/100805618


----------



## wayneL (4 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Does anyone know if McGowan will ScoMo a G@G pass, we have a serious bushfire that needs his attention. 🤣
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-04/denmark-emergency-warning-bushfire/100805618



I reckon we should knock back McStalin's g2g, to get back from his court case.

That'd be funny


----------



## Logique2 (4 February 2022)

Humid said:


> Well I thought you had been around long enough but...
> The rate between Saturday and Sunday was
> 
> Loading



Do you have Laura Tingle's approval to make that comment?
 She won't be hosting the ABC 7:30 Report btw.
Get on with tbe welding ..and leave my ASF mates alone..


----------



## Humid (4 February 2022)

Logique2 said:


> Do you have Laura Tingle's approval to make that comment?
> She won't be hosting the ABC 7:30 Report btw.
> Get on with tbe welding ..and leave my ASF mates alone..



Has your medication come off the PBS?


----------



## Humid (4 February 2022)




----------



## Humid (5 February 2022)




----------



## Humid (5 February 2022)

Hahahaha





__





						Loading...
					





					www.google.com.au


----------



## Macquack (5 February 2022)

Is that Barnaby Joyce's new squeeze writing that article?


----------



## Humid (5 February 2022)

Macquack said:


> Is that Barnaby Joyce's new squeeze writing that article?



yep


----------



## moXJO (5 February 2022)

Humid said:


> yep
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Is it a leak, or a China hack/leak?
Seems a bit weird that messages can be leaked from different phones. 
How did they get access?
Unless it is coordinated from the party factions

Message rings true though.


----------



## wayneL (5 February 2022)

moXJO said:


> Is it a leak, or a China hack/leak?
> Seems a bit weird that messages can be leaked from different phones.
> How did they get access?
> Unless it is coordinated from the party factions
> ...



Pretty much true I've 99% of politicians to be honest.


----------



## Humid (5 February 2022)

moXJO said:


> Is it a leak, or a China hack/leak?
> Seems a bit weird that messages can be leaked from different phones.
> How did they get access?
> Unless it is coordinated from the party factions
> ...


----------



## sptrawler (5 February 2022)

It's bound to be true, they are all jockeying for position for the top job, most pay.
Tell me when white anting hasn't gone on, Fraser/Howard, Hawke/Keating, Rudd/Gillard/Rudd, Rudd/Shorten/Albo, Turnbull/Abbott, Turnbull/ Everyone, Morrison/?.


----------



## Knobby22 (5 February 2022)

I heard Gladys text partner was another female federal polly  known for her bright smiles.  Obviously a large number of options so cannot say anymore.


----------



## Humid (5 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> It's bound to be true, they are all jockeying for position for the top job, most pay.
> Tell me when white anting hasn't gone on, Fraser/Howard, Hawke/Keating, Rudd/Gillard/Rudd, Rudd/Shorten/Albo, Turnbull/Abbott, Turnbull/ Everyone, Morrison/?.



What that he is a hypocrite and a liar?


----------



## orr (5 February 2022)

There will be no disscusion/comment of Morrison's poll numbers, as these are "Underwater Matters'

Good to see in the text outings of late the comment that ..."the mob have woken up to Morrison as a fruad'
 Fantastic that a number of contributers to this thread are now affirmed to be 'Woke'...
not you though Logiue ... have another Horlicks pull over the doona and keep the thumb on the nurse call button.

Ms Higgins and Tame: Forward girls to the National Press Club.
And Forward you other girls in those, currently, Nasty Party seats.


----------



## moXJO (5 February 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> I heard Gladys text partner was another female federal polly  known for her bright smiles.  Obviously a large number of options so cannot say anymore.



I'll be glad to see the back of Morrison. Hopefully they clear out the front bench.


----------



## Knobby22 (5 February 2022)

moXJO said:


> I'll be glad to see the back of Morrison. Hopefully they clear out the front bench.



Reading what he has done to the NSW pre-selection process. 
He has made some bitter enemies. Stali Zeggal or whatever she is called getting a free run. Still no Lib candidate.

I knew he wasn't liked but I just thought it was he didn't toe the line but now see am obviously wrong. Dutton may have been better. In hindsight I bet they wish they had gone with Bishop


----------



## mullokintyre (5 February 2022)

moXJO said:


> I'll be glad to see the back of Morrison. Hopefully they clear out the front bench.



I think there are sufficient people who agree with you to see the coalition soundly defeated.
Whether of course we get anything better to replace them is a moot point, but it can't possible get any worse.
Mick


----------



## wayneL (5 February 2022)

mullokintyre said:


> I think there are sufficient people who agree with you to see the coalition soundly defeated.
> Whether of course we get anything better to replace them is a moot point, but it can't possible get any worse.
> Mick



We could collectively ensure there is a solid cross bench to "keep the bastards honest".

I would encourage folks to vote outside of the Lib/Nat/Lab/Green axis of absurdity.


----------



## sptrawler (5 February 2022)

Humid said:


> What that he is a hypocrite and a liar?



Like all the other other politicians, maybe you can tell me one that hasn't been a hypocrite and a liar?

No I was referring to the fact that the knives will be out to get the top job, when Morrison is given the heave ho, it just shows that they know they are in for a stint on the reserve bench.  
You've got to lighten up and not take it so personally.🤣
It isn't as though the politicians are your mum or dad, they are there to get paid for sitting in Parliament, the higher they get up the ladder the more they get paid.
They aren't all friends and they aren't there to make @Humid feel good. When Labor get in the same $hit will happen, it will just be on a different day


----------



## sptrawler (5 February 2022)

wayneL said:


> We could collectively ensure there is a solid cross bench to "keep the bastards honest".
> 
> I would encourage folks to vote outside of the Lib/Nat/Lab/Green axis of absurdity.



Yeh, bring back Nick Xenophon, oh he is probably pretty busy looking after all his investment properties. 🤣


----------



## sptrawler (5 February 2022)

moXJO said:


> I'll be glad to see the back of Morrison. Hopefully they clear out the front bench.



It will be just great to see him out of the papers, getting the blame for everything that happens in Australia.
The media will be salivating, getting someone in the big chair, that they can run rings around.🤣
IMO it will be extremely entertaining.


----------



## wayneL (5 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Yeh, bring back Nick Xenophon, oh he is probably pretty busy looking after all his investment properties. 🤣




Uh, no. Let's be sensible about this and vote Clive Palmer


----------



## Humid (5 February 2022)

Humid said:


> yep
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The date of the message.....Why then Barnaby?


----------



## Humid (5 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Like all the other other politicians, maybe you can tell me one that hasn't been a hypocrite and a liar?
> 
> No I was referring to the fact that the knives will be out to get the top job, when Morrison is given the heave ho, it just shows that they know they are in for a stint on the reserve bench.
> You've got to lighten up and not take it so personally.🤣
> ...



Personally Im enjoying watching your chosen government eat itself if thats what you mean 
All this for 7k worth of franking credits
Great investment you should be proud


----------



## Humid (5 February 2022)

With covid 7k probably would be a stretch


----------



## moXJO (5 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> It will be just great to see him out of the papers, getting the blame for everything that happens in Australia.
> The media will be salivating, getting someone in the big chair, that they can run rings around.🤣
> IMO it will be extremely entertaining.



Look at the US or Rudd/Gillard/Abbott/Tbull/Morrison. 

What you get next is often worse and sets the bar even lower then the last shtbag.
Dear God I'm hoping albo surprises to the upside


----------



## moXJO (5 February 2022)

Humid said:


> Personally Im enjoying watching your chosen government eat itself if thats what you mean
> All this for 7k worth of franking credits
> Great investment you should be proud



Don't speak to soon as Labor is notorious for blowing up in the home stretch.


----------



## sptrawler (5 February 2022)

Humid said:


> Personally Im enjoying watching your chosen government eat itself if thats what you mean
> All this for 7k worth of franking credits
> Great investment you should be proud



Well really it was pretty good, because the ones I'm voting for this time, are leaving them alone also.
So win/win really. 
By the way, I notice your nasty streak is starting to fire up again, now you think you are on the home straight.  

You must be pleased your mob are keeping themselves under the cone of silence, I suppose they learnt last election, best to say nothing and have people think your an idiot, than do what Shorten/Bowen did and prove they were idiots.

See they are in the starting lineup, for the muppets again, oh well it shouldn't be long before they get the knives into Albo and blow their feet of.

It actually shows how bad the Libs have become, when the muppet show labor are putting up is the best choice. 🤣
Australia, you're standing in it.


----------



## Humid (5 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Well really it was pretty good, because the ones I'm voting for this time, are leaving them alone also.
> So win/win really.
> By the way, I notice your nasty streak is starting to fire up again, now you think you are on the home straight.
> 
> ...



And your voting for them.....whose the muppet


----------



## sptrawler (5 February 2022)

Humid said:


> And your voting for them.....whose the muppet



Why wouldn't I they are talking about taxing the rich and leaving the middle class alone, you have a short memory the middle class is who silly Billy and Bimbo Bowen were going to hit last election.
They proved they were muppets, when they had to throw out everything they took to the last election, but you probably don't realise that. 🤣

My guess is it wont be long after the election that it will blow up and Shorten/Bowen and a few other elites will get chucked out, then maybe the Labor Party will get back to what it should be.

By the way, you're the muppet, by voting for them every time, no matter what $hyte they put up.


----------



## Humid (5 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Why wouldn't I they are talking about taxing the rich and leaving the middle class alone, you have a short memory the middle class is who silly Billy and Bimbo Bowen were going to hit last election.
> They proved they were muppets, when they had to throw out everything they took to the last election, but you probably don't realise that. 🤣
> 
> My guess is it wont be long after the election that it will blow up and Shorten/Bowen and a few other elites will get chucked out, then maybe the Labor Party will get back to what it should be.
> ...



You assume I vote lol


----------



## sptrawler (5 February 2022)

Humid said:


> You assume I vote lol



Actually by reading your posts, the thought has crossed my mind, but then you could always just put a X in the Labor box.


----------



## Knobby22 (6 February 2022)

Barnaby did the right thing by offering to resign to Scomo.

It is Morrison though who should resign. He has obviously lost the confidence of the party and and by resigning and letting the party reset before the election he would be remembered fondly. 

Even a successful PM like Howard couldn't see when his time was up though.


----------



## Humid (6 February 2022)

Dont get old get religious


----------



## basilio (7 February 2022)

Just saw a full flock of Flying Pigs.  Absolutely blacked out the sky. 









						ABC welcomes ‘funding certainty’ as Morrison government removes indexation freeze
					

Public broadcaster to receive $3.3bn over next three years, while SBS also gets funding boost




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## basilio (7 February 2022)

And in late breaking news the Murdoch Media and the Institute of Public Affairs praised the Federal Government for recognising the  value and importance of independent public owned broadcasters.

In a joint statement they noted :

"The restoration of the last 4 years of  budget cuts to the ABC will ensure a high quality, independent media  that is essential for a well functioning democracy."


----------



## basilio (7 February 2022)

So which Federal Minister sent *that* text about ScoMo ? Peter Dutton isn't impressed. Perhaps he should immediately sue Bob Carr for defamation ? The truth could be sorted out in court once and for all.

_“The minister who shared the text with van Onselen and gave permission to use it was Peter Dutton,” Mr Carr wrote in a post to the social media website Twitter.

“If PM Morrison has one more week in free fall the prospect of a leadership change pre-election is real. Party rules don’t count if most MPs think you will lead them to defeat.”

Van Onselen reported on a record of text messages in which Ms Berejiklian allegedly calls the Prime Minister a “horrible person” and an unidentified frontbencher describes him as a “fraud” and “complete psycho”.









						Peter Dutton savages Bob Carr claim on ‘complete psycho’ text
					

Defence Minister Peter Dutton has rejected claims made by former NSW premier Bob Carr he leaked text messages referring to the PM as a “complete psycho”.



					thenewdaily.com.au
				



_


----------



## sptrawler (7 February 2022)

basilio said:


> So which Federal Minister sent *that* text about ScoMo ? Peter Dutton isn't impressed. Perhaps he should immediately sue Bob Carr for defamation ? The truth could be sorted out in court once and for all.
> 
> _“The minister who shared the text with van Onselen and gave permission to use it was Peter Dutton,” Mr Carr wrote in a post to the social media website Twitter.
> 
> ...



Not that it isn't already a great side show, but Bob Carr, really? You may as well be quoting the South China news. 😂 









						How Bob Carr became China's pawn
					

Bob Carr's fawning behaviour toward China - particularly while in China - has repercussions for all Australians.




					www.afr.com


----------



## Humid (7 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Not that it isn't already a great side show, but Bob Carr, really? You may as well be quoting the South China news. 😂
> 
> 
> 
> ...



sue him potato head


----------



## Humid (7 February 2022)

No time for federal ICAC: Cash
					

Laws on religious freedom and online trolls will be the Attorney-General’s top priorities in the final days of parliament.




					www.afr.com
				




Too busy imploding


----------



## SirRumpole (7 February 2022)

Humid said:


> No time for federal ICAC: Cash
> 
> 
> Laws on religious freedom and online trolls will be the Attorney-General’s top priorities in the final days of parliament.
> ...




Religious freedom, really.

Giving the PM's mates and pedophilic organisations more rights than the rest of us, priortised over cleaning up their own act

Disgusting.


----------



## Humid (7 February 2022)

Bolted


----------



## sptrawler (7 February 2022)

Humid said:


> Bolted



When Bolt calls it a day on ScoMo, it definitely is time to move on. 
Josh Frydenberg is my guess as next leader of the Libs, Dutton is as unelectable as Shorten.


----------



## Knobby22 (7 February 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> Religious freedom, really.
> 
> Giving the PM's mates and pedophilic organisations more rights than the rest of us, priortised over cleaning up their own act
> 
> Disgusting.



Religions deserve to practise freely and deserve some protection to hire who they want etc.
Scomo has deliberately  waited to now to pass this as he is going to try to wedge Labor on it! Clever tactics to win the religious immigrant population.

Also, I note the Libs have put back all the money they cut back from the ABC to stop Labor wedging them (with the country voters in particular).! 

From the Australian 
Coalition gives ABC a pre-election funding boost​The Morrison government has given the ABC a pre-election pay rise, committing to a $3.28bn support package and scrapping its indexation freeze on the broadcaster’s budget.


----------



## Knobby22 (7 February 2022)

New Zealand newspaper in a joke in Parliament 1873 having a go at an American politician!



> He brought in the Provincial Loan Bill, declaring that, if the House did not accept it, he was prepared to adhere to his original proposal. It was something like the American legislator — *“Them’s my principles; but if you don’t like them — I kin change them!*



The joke went on through the years and then Groucho Marx went for the comedy gold.
*These, gentlemen, are my principles, but if you do not like them I can change them.*


----------



## wayneL (7 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> When Bolt calls it a day on ScoMo, it definitely is time to move on.
> Josh Frydenberg is my guess as next leader of the Libs, Dutton is as unelectable as Shorten.



Frydenberg would be no change at all, deck chairs on the Titanic and all that.

And apart from anything else, Dutton has more of an authoritarian Impulse than anyone else in the Liberal Party. that would be a welcome shift to the right, but in my opinion not the right sort of right.

The Liberal party needs a Tony Abbott without the gaffs... And it just doesn't have one of those right now.


----------



## SirRumpole (7 February 2022)

wayneL said:


> Frydenberg would be no change at all, deck chairs on the Titanic and all that.
> 
> And apart from anything else, Dutton has more of an authoritarian Impulse than anyone else in the Liberal Party. that would be a welcome shift to the right, but in my opinion not the right sort of right.
> 
> The Liberal party needs a Tony Abbott without the gaffs... And it just doesn't have one of those right now.



Well, they may sort it all out in 3 years.


----------



## sptrawler (7 February 2022)

wayneL said:


> The Liberal party needs a Tony Abbott without the gaffs... And it just doesn't have one of those right now.



Yes, Abbott was another one that couldn't think on his feet, the media ran rings around him.
When he had time to think out the issue he usually came up with the goods, but with the 24/7 in your face media who have google at their fingertips, time to think about answers is something politicians don't get anymore.
Abbot certainly performed better in a reactionary role, than in a proactive role.
It's going to be interesting to see how Albo goes, it will either make or break him IMO.


----------



## PZ99 (7 February 2022)

Abbott = LOL

Work till 70, no dole for under 30's, zero penalty rates, higher taxes on super for low income earners.

Yep, bring him back... Albo would get 3 terms... too easy


----------



## Investoradam (7 February 2022)

Logique2 said:


> Not a LNP government deserving of re-election, and Albo can start choosing rhe curtains ar the Lodge.



Yes ALP bot!

actually none of them are both parties are the same now days and do the opposite that is for the Australian people 

for how hopeless the LNP are people forget how useless the ALP are!
The so called workers party sold Australian sovereignty from the Australian people in the mid 70s under the oxygen thief of Gough Whitlam and been pleasing the globalist over lauds since!
I mean why else to Laud a dud at best that was sacked after 3 odd years


----------



## Investoradam (7 February 2022)

wayneL said:


> For sheer amusement, I'd love to see UAP horse trading with the majors to form a coalition.... That would be funny



Doesn’t that trigger the lefties. If the UAP were to do that it would push the greens out and watch how desperate they get with there usual gutter trash tactics


----------



## sptrawler (7 February 2022)

PZ99 said:


> Abbott = LOL
> 
> Work till 70, no dole for under 30's, zero penalty rates, higher taxes on super for low income earners.
> 
> Yep, bring him back... Albo would get 3 terms... too easy



Well if you're going to drag out fails, let's do a few Labor ones:
Wages accord, drop in real wages.
Tariff removal, loss of Manufacturing.
Using the military and overseas scab labour, to strike break.
Raising the retirement age from 65-67, not just talking about it, actually doing it.
Increasing qualification requirement for disability.
Removing tax advantage from established homes, give it to new builds and a bonus payment for the rich.
Higher taxes on low income earners, by removal of franking credits, from low income earners. But billionaires can keep theirs.
That's actually spread across most of labor's recent terms in office, so not just one leader, hopefully Albo doesn't continue the track record. 😂


----------



## SirRumpole (7 February 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> Religions deserve to practise freely and deserve some protection to hire who they want etc.




By all means let them hire and protect homosexual pedophile priests while telling the rest of us that homosexuality is a mortal sin.


----------



## sptrawler (7 February 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> Religions deserve to practise freely and deserve some protection to hire who they want etc.



You probably find that most religions can do all of the above, these days it's only the Christians that can be put to the sword, the others already are protected species in Australia IMO. 
Anyone can say anything they like about Christians, try doing the same with the Muslim religion. 😂


----------



## Humid (7 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Well if you're going to drag out fails, let's do a few Labor ones:
> Wages accord, drop in real wages.
> Tariff removal, loss of Manufacturing.
> Using the military and overseas scab labour, to strike break.
> ...



More a removal of a tax break for people who don't pay income tax
What do you reckon Iraq cost us and for what


----------



## mullokintyre (7 February 2022)

Iraq, Afghanistan, Timor, PNG, Solomons, patrolling the straits of Homuz, you name it, all a waste of money.
Mick


----------



## sptrawler (7 February 2022)

Humid said:


> More a removal of a tax break for people who don't pay income tax



Lots of people have tax breaks or welfare payments, or lower personal income tax than what other generations had. If it helped keep people off welfare, it is doing a service.
As I said at the time, what is the logic in taking it of a grandmother that gets $2,000 say, yet giving it as a tax break to reduce someone in the top tax bracket tax bill by $200million in offsets? 
Weird logic, the reality was it was intended to force SMSF into industry funds, then you kept your franking credits. I don't like that sort of deviousness and most of Australia agreed.
Albo sounds much more sensible IMO.




Humid said:


> What do you reckon Iraq cost us and for what



Lots as all wars do, I was lucky conscription stopped a couple of years before I was going to have to put my name down for Vietnam.
I'm not a fan of war, protecting your own Country is one thing, going overseas to fight a war that isn't our business I'm dead against.


----------



## wayneL (7 February 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> By all means let them hire and protect homosexual pedophile priests while telling the rest of us that homosexuality is a mortal sin.



Point of order: notwithstanding the fact that some of this abhorent stuff has happened, that is not actually the practice of the religion at all. That is *people being total @ssholes. (and the reason that even though I call myself a Christian, I stay well the fark away from churches... In fact I find myself in open conflict with all of my local churches... I am giving them sh¹t)

But let's not blame the religion, let's blame the people.


----------



## sptrawler (7 February 2022)

wayneL said:


> Point of order: notwithstanding the fact that some of this abhorent stuff has happened, that is not actually the practice of the religion at all. That is *people being total @ssholes. (and the reason that even though I call myself a Christian, I stay well the fark away from churches... In fact I find myself in open conflict with all of my local churches... I am giving them sh¹t)
> 
> But let's not blame the religion, let's blame the people.



I'm an atheist, so don't really care one way or another, but as you say it boils down to weird people. 
The reason they got into religion, is the same reason they gravitate toward clubs like the boy scouts, there is a supply of what they want.


----------



## SirRumpole (7 February 2022)

wayneL said:


> Point of order: notwithstanding the fact that some of this abhorent stuff has happened, that is not actually the practice of the religion at all. That is *people being total @ssholes. (and the reason that even though I call myself a Christian, I stay well the fark away from churches... In fact I find myself in open conflict with all of my local churches... I am giving them sh¹t)
> 
> But let's not blame the religion, let's blame the people.t



Yes sure, but we are talking organisations as employers who want to discriminate, not individuals.


----------



## wayneL (7 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> I'm an atheist, so don't really care one way or another, but as you say it boils down to weird people.
> The reason they got into religion, is the same reason they gravitate toward clubs like the boy scouts, there is a supply of what they want.



It's abuse of position and power for self gratification... and that transcends, in a negative way, one's  purported beliefs, one way or the other.

The corollary of which, is that even as a Christian, I don't give a crap whether someone is atheist, agnostic, or any of a number of religions... Just don't care.

And I doubt the (assuming there is one) creator gives a crap.

The immutable truth is that our actions affect other people and we have a choice whether those actions are positive or negative.

None of us are perfect in this regard, but at least we should have the best intentions. 

This is where, perhaps we can be judgemental?


----------



## wayneL (7 February 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> Yes sure, but we are talking organisations as employers who want to discriminate, not individuals.



Joe biden seeks to discriminate by appointing the next supreme court judge as both female and black.

Let's suppose that I have children, which I don't, and wish them to have a certain religious education (whatever that may be). Should I consider a radical Mudjahad Muslim







SirRumpole said:


> Yes sure, but we are talking organisations as employers who want to discriminate, not individuals.



Should I hire a Wiccan priestess to teach my children Catholic values?

Disclaimer: Nothing against Wiccan priestesses. I would break bread with them in an instant.


----------



## SirRumpole (7 February 2022)

wayneL said:


> Joe biden seeks to discriminate by appointing the next supreme court judge as both female and black.
> 
> Let's suppose that I have children, which I don't, and wish them to have a certain religious education (whatever that may be). Should I consider a radical Mudjahad Muslim
> Should I hire a Wiccan priestess to teach my children Catholic values?
> ...



If a school hires a maths teacher it doesn't matter wbat relgion they are.


----------



## mullokintyre (7 February 2022)

There are many people who need something to give them hope for eternal  life, coz they can't abide the idea that humans are an accident of the universe rather than a piss poor design by some creationist deity.
Religons are all about power, usually male power at that.
The promoters say that only they can intercede to the gods on behalf of the  general population, and thus they will be saved or something along the lines.
It gives them power over the faithful, and a nice little income to boot as the foolish ones tithe their income to the greedy.
Religion gives solace and a reason for being to some.
Personally , I think anyone  who believes in and worships deities are lacking logic, but I will defend to the death their right to  believe and worship.
Mick


----------



## wayneL (7 February 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> If a school hires a maths teacher it doesn't matter wbat relgion they are.



True, but maths transcends religion and politics


----------



## SirRumpole (7 February 2022)

wayneL said:


> True, but maths transcends religion and politics




So does physics, chemistry, economics and woodworking. Are you saying that employing a person of a different religion to teach those subjects affect how they are taught ?


----------



## wayneL (7 February 2022)

mullokintyre said:


> There are many people who need something to give them hope for eternal  life, coz they can't abide the idea that humans are an accident of the universe rather than a piss poor design by some creationist deity.
> Religons are all about power, usually male power at that.
> The promoters say that only they can intercede to the gods on behalf of the  general population, and thus they will be saved or something along the lines.
> It gives them power over the faithful, and a nice little income to boot as the foolish ones tithe their income to the greedy.
> ...



My view is that the truth may be completely different to any of those possibilities







mullokintyre said:


> There are many people who need something to give them hope for eternal  life, coz they can't abide the idea that humans are an accident of the universe rather than a piss poor design by some creationist deity.
> Religons are all about power, usually male power at that.
> The promoters say that only they can intercede to the gods on behalf of the  general population, and thus they will be saved or something along the lines.
> It gives them power over the faithful, and a nice little income to boot as the foolish ones tithe their income to the greedy.
> ...



 For me, that is completely ok, because in the end I don't think it matters.

There are the religious who are completely immoral, and then there are the completely irreligious who are absolutely moral.

Choose your path


----------



## wayneL (7 February 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> So does physics, chemistry, economics and woodworking. Are you saying that employing a person of a different religion to teach those subjects affect how they are taught ?



In those instances, it is completely irrelevant, I agree.
3D


----------



## SirRumpole (7 February 2022)

mullokintyre said:


> Personally , I think anyone who believes in and worships deities are lacking logic, but I will defend to the death their right to believe and worship.




Yes , as long as that belief and worship is totally voluntary and not enforced by 'fatwas' or other coercive means, and does not affect the rights of other people.


----------



## PZ99 (7 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Well if you're going to drag out fails, let's do a few Labor ones:



Why ? It has zip to do with the point. My post wasn't Labor vs Liberal. Not interested in tribalism.

I was responding to a suggestion that the Liberal party needed another Tony Abbott.

It's a bit strange when the poster making that suggestion had previously said the greater goal of politics was to wipe out the middle class. Abbott attacked the middle class more than any PM before or since.

Abbott might be more suited to the Lib/Dems or One Nation but definitely not Liberal  
_
(For the record... I'm more likely to be voting for the NSW Coalition than Labor.. have done since 2011...feel free to ask me why   )_


----------



## sptrawler (7 February 2022)

PZ99 said:


> Why ? It has zip to do with the point. My post wasn't Labor vs Liberal. Not interested in tribalism.
> 
> I was responding to a suggestion that the Liberal party needed another Tony Abbott.
> 
> ...



I know nothing about NSW politics, so you probably vote as you see fit and good on you. I'm in W.A for the record, voted the Libs before last election voted Labor last election, Libs were a one trick pony and he left.

With regard Abbott, I was saying he suffered from not being able to think on his feet, so the media ran circles around him and he was better being reactive (in opposition) than proactive( in Govt).

With regard Labor vs Liberal, I just thought that the constant reminders a couple of you guys manage to slip in about penalty rates, work choices etc, required a bit of balance.
There would be some on the forum, that probably think the only party that introduce draconian policies are the coalition, so I thought it only right to show that both sides of politics are capable of introducing unsavoury policies when required. 
The weird thing is, only one sides legacies are remembered. 
Having started work in 1971, I've lived through enough Govt's, to know neither side has the right to claim the moral high ground. 
IMO the best was Gough, at least he had his heart in the right spot, his biggest stuff up was stepping on the multinational miners toes..
As usual with Labor, the idea for Australia to develop its own resources was terrific, the way they went about implementing it left something to be desired. 
The best thing he did was introduce the single mothers pension, back then many women and children were trapped in an abusive relationship and there was no way out.


----------



## PZ99 (7 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> I know nothing about NSW politics, so you probably vote as you see fit and good on you. I'm in W.A for the record, voted the Libs before last election voted Labor last election, Libs were a one trick pony and he left.
> 
> With regard Abbott, I was saying he suffered from not being able to think on his feet, so the media ran circles around him and he was better being reactive (in opposition) than proactive( in Govt).
> 
> ...




Hehe... I'm sure if the Labor Party wanted to cut penalty rates and bring back Workchoices there would be plenty of "balanced" responses by the time you filter out the conspiracy theories about commies and dictatorships... most of which appear on my screen as:


----------



## sptrawler (7 February 2022)

PZ99 said:


> Hehe... I'm sure if the Labor Party wanted to cut penalty rates and bring back Workchoices there would be plenty of "balanced" responses by the time you filter out the conspiracy theories about commies and dictatorships... most of which appear on my screen as:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't ignore anyone, everyone has something to add, even if I don't agree with it.


----------



## PZ99 (7 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> I don't ignore anyone, everyone has something to add, even if I don't agree with it.



No problem there .

My original point is that if the Libs, or ANY party put up a leader with austere policies they'll lose.

So I don't think Abbott's their man. I think they need a pro growth approach so that boils down to taxation reform, say removal of payroll tax or even provisional tax (now known as tax instalments)

I saw so many small businesses get wiped out by provisional tax in the past. That's just one example.

Ohh lookie... there's one of them bots already off the mark LOL  ↓↓↓↓↓↓


----------



## Investoradam (7 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Well if you're going to drag out fails, let's do a few Labor ones:
> Wages accord, drop in real wages.
> Tariff removal, loss of Manufacturing.
> Using the military and overseas scab labour, to strike break.
> ...



a lot of that was done by Whitlem, Hawke & keating! all 3 should have been hung for treason decades ago with the Lima Declaration. 
yet the ALP laud these oxygen thieves




__





						LIMA DECLARATION AND PLAN OF ACTION ON INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT AND   CO-OPERATION, 1975.
					





					gwb.com.au
				




they sold to the united nations aka the rothchilds aka mr IMF and Australia is now a corporation and a whore to the world and dictated to how to run its exports/imports by the united nations at the same time selling australias sovereignty and theft of the land from its people  in cluding its first nations the Aboriginals whilst at the same time pretending to care for them


----------



## Investoradam (7 February 2022)

Humid said:


> More a removal of a tax break for people who don't pay income tax
> What do you reckon Iraq cost us and for what



it cost us billions! but we are contractually orded to do so thanks to the garbage Gough & bobby Whorke under the Lima declaration!

for the record yes Howard was ok buyt very over rated. he did ok with what he could


----------



## sptrawler (7 February 2022)

Investoradam said:


> a lot of that was done by Whitlem, Hawke & keating! all 3 should have been hung for treason decades ago with the Lima Declaration.
> yet the ALP laud these oxygen thieves
> 
> 
> ...



That's true, but it was well intentioned to help bring third World countries out of poverty, the only problem is what happens when they become first World and you become third World. 
No one factored that in. The only thing saving our standard of living, is a small population, but a 'Big Australia" has been mentioned on numerous occasions.
The other issue of course is, the multinationals like building there junk, where cheap labour and taxes are. So there is a lot of white noise about bringing manufacturing back, but I certainly wont hold my breath.


----------



## sptrawler (7 February 2022)

PZ99 said:


> No problem there .
> 
> My original point is that if the Libs, or ANY party put up a leader with austere policies they'll lose.
> 
> ...



I agree, the Libs are bereft of ideas, as happens after several terms in office.
It needs a completely new tack and that means a change of Govt, as I've said on numerous occasions, Labor have some great ideas it's the implementation that it usually falls down.


----------



## Investoradam (7 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> That's true, but it was well intentioned to help bring third World countries out of poverty, the only problem is what happens when they become first World and you become third World.
> No one factored that in. The only thing saving our standard of living, is a small population, but a 'Big Australia" has been mentioned on numerous occasions.
> The other issue of course is, the multinationals like building there junk, where cheap labour and taxes are. So there is a lot of white noise about bringing manufacturing back, but I certainly wont hold my breath.



ok boomer! you either listen to to much ABC or SKY
well thats labors current line.
secondly why is it australias responsibility to bring 3rd worlds out of povity why cant they get there **** together?
why did we have to sell our sovereignty out for this?
what future do our kids have?
our standarded of living is declining not encreasing. cost of living is sky rocketing, house prices and no wage growth as its all controlled and manuplited from over seas 
garbage gough and bobby whorke introduce this globalist scam where multinationals set up off shore companied and pay little tax then ship jobs off shore to 3rd world companies at the expense of there incompetence and shite cultures for not being able to modernize from being a 3rd world **** hole.
i mean large populated countries should be able to do this far easier!

the same has happened over seas!
so what happens over the next decade and on for Australia?
the younger generations and beyone?

im mean thery thing communism is a good idea and lean to the left & history shows what happens then!

yes globalization and communism was invented by the same people! and the most stupidist of people go along with it!
lenin called you lot "useful idiots!"

you ever wonder why the world hates Putin for being a nationalist?


----------



## PZ99 (7 February 2022)

Fark, the waffle is free flowing here tonight - must've had the coal chimney cleaned out


----------



## sptrawler (7 February 2022)

PZ99 said:


> Fark, the waffle is free flowing here tonight - must've had the coal chimney cleaned out



Well the last election did say they had lost the grass roots voter.


----------



## PZ99 (7 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Well the last election did say they had lost the grass roots voter.



I think it's more intoxicating than grass mate


----------



## mullokintyre (8 February 2022)

PZ99 said:


> No problem there .
> 
> My original point is that if the Libs, or ANY party put up a leader with austere policies they'll lose.
> 
> ...



The problem is, Payroll Tax is a state thing rather than a federal thing.
One of the  outcomes  that was SUPPOSED to happen after Howard introduced the GST was that a myriad of state taxes such as stamp duty, payroll taxes etc  were going to be removed and replaced with a progressive consumption tax.
Of course, the states renegged on their part of the deal, so we still have  these  regressive taxes that vary from stste to state.
Blame the states on this one, not the feds.
Mick


----------



## PZ99 (8 February 2022)

mullokintyre said:


> The problem is, Payroll Tax is a state thing rather than a federal thing.
> One of the  outcomes  that was SUPPOSED to happen after Howard introduced the GST was that a myriad of state taxes such as stamp duty, payroll taxes etc  were going to be removed and replaced with a progressive consumption tax.
> Of course, the states renegged on their part of the deal, so we still have  these  regressive taxes that vary from stste to state.
> Blame the states on this one, not the feds.
> Mick



I know all that. But that doesn't stop the feds doing a direct deal with the states to kill off the tax.

They got close to doing it several times in the past - couldn't agree with the terms.


----------



## mullokintyre (8 February 2022)

PZ99 said:


> I know all that. But that doesn't stop the feds doing a direct deal with the states to kill off the tax.
> 
> They got close to doing it several times in the past - couldn't agree with the terms.



Well, they supposedly had a comittment from the states as part of the GST sharing.
People tend to forget that the GST was a c razey brave comittment by the FEDS, firstly because  the Coalition had orignally ruled it out, and secondly because they were introducng a big new tax where all the benefits were going to flow to the state coffers.

fromThe Age


> The Howard Government's original plan for the GST envisaged the states abolishing a swag of financial taxes, which in effect would be replaced by the GST. They included:
> 
> 
> The financial institutions duty.
> ...



Howard and Costello were never going to increase the petrol tax nor downgrade personal income tax cuts, so the  agreement was watered down


> "The Ministerial Council will by 2005 review the need for retention of stamp duty on non-residential conveyances; leases; mortgages, debentures, bonds and other loan securities; credit arrangements, instalment purchase arrangements and rental arrangements; and on cheques, bills of exchange, promissory notes; and unquoted marketable securities."
> 
> The only commitment the states made was to "review the need" for these taxes. Heads of federal and state treasuries have been meeting to do so, and this review will come to a head when the treasurers meet on March 23.



Well they may have been reviewed, but the big ones are still there.
You only have to look at the farce that was the so called "national Cabinet of Unity" to see that the states will always go their own way.
You could get 5 out of six states to agree and still have it killed off.
The Feds have a lot to answer for, but the states and territories have a lot more.
Mick


----------



## PZ99 (8 February 2022)

Yep.. well the reason they didn't agree is because someone forget to tell Costello the maths didn't add up.

GST doesn't remotely cover the stamp duty for starters... and that will get worse in the future.

But that doesn't stop the feds from directly funding the states in lieu of payroll tax today.

They are already doing something similar with WA re: the GST 70¢ deal.


----------



## sptrawler (8 February 2022)

Didnt the GST end up a watered down mess, as usually happens, by the time it has been through both houses?


----------



## PZ99 (8 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Didnt the GST end up a watered down mess, as usually happens, by the time it has been through both houses?



Yeah some of the food was subtracted to appease the dems.


----------



## mullokintyre (8 February 2022)

PZ99 said:


> Yep.. well the reason they didn't agree is because someone forget to tell Costello the maths didn't add up.
> 
> GST doesn't remotely cover the stamp duty for starters... and that will get worse in the future.



I just had a quick look at the figures for Victoria.
Vics share of GST was 17billion
The total income ex GST was 19.6 billion.
Stamp duty accounted for 6.4 billion, and payroll tax accounted for 7 billion.


PZ99 said:


> But that doesn't stop the feds from directly funding the states in lieu of payroll tax today.
> 
> They are already doing it with WA with the GST 70¢ deal.



Not sure what you mean there,


> If you have a look at WA Government Treasury website, Payroll tax is still being levied in WA.
> About payroll tax​Payroll tax is assessed on the wages paid by an employer in Western Australia and the Indian Ocean Territories.



According to  Commonwealth Grants Comission , WA is still being shafted by the GSt, where their relativity index is still sitting 0.41






The ABS says that on a 5 year moving average,GST accounts for about 4.1% of  total taxation revenue, slightly ahead of the 3.9% of revenue for  all states payroll tax.
Mick


----------



## PZ99 (8 February 2022)

mullokintyre said:


> I just had a quick look at the figures for Victoria.
> Vics share of GST was 17billion
> The total income ex GST was 19.6 billion.
> Stamp duty accounted for 6.4 billion, and payroll tax accounted for 7 billion.
> ...




What I mean is the feds did a deal with WA to keep their GST distribution at no less than 70c in the dollar. (soon to 75c I think...)

It didn't require the other states to agree to it. It just happened. It's actually a triumph for the Morrison Govt which I'm sure they'll remind us about in the next few months 

So they should be able to follow a similar path with payroll tax.

That Stamp duty income for vic looks a bit low... did they waive it for first home buyers or something ?


Irrespective of the figures... the fed Govt does have the power to compensate the states if they abolish payroll tax. Yes, it's expensive but then my original point was about massive tax reforms to stimulate investment as opposed to taking a position of austerity by attacking vulnerable groups of people.

Personally, I think we would've been better off if the Turnbull Govt had stayed in power for another term.


----------



## sptrawler (8 February 2022)

I'm with you @PZ99 , due to Australia's diminishing workforce, which will accelerate as technology, AI and robotics increase, the whole tax system needs to be re configured to suit the new paradigm.
I don't think the basic structure of the system, where personal income tax is the backbone of the model, is going to be fit for purpose in the years to come.


----------



## mullokintyre (8 February 2022)

So why not go back to the original model of the GST where EVERYTHING contracted a consumption tax, and while they are at it, increase it to 15%, and get rid of ALL state taxes. as well as income tax.
Put the tax pn food health etc like it was originally planned.
Penioners and others on low income don't pay for 90% of their health related costs anyway, so won't affect them.
Get rid of company tax and all its complexities, so that every company that does business here pays 15% of their turnover  in Tax.
None of this transfer pricing bull****, intercompany loans into low tax off shore havens etc.
Use part of the extra  income to compensate the lower third of citizens on the income scale.
You cannot use artificial mechanisms to avoid a consumption tax unless you work in the black market cash system.
It would allow those army of workers at the tax office to work on the black market system.
There, problem solved.
Mick


----------



## PZ99 (8 February 2022)

Sounds good.

How much is the income tax revenue ?
How much would a 15% GST generate ?


----------



## sptrawler (8 February 2022)

PZ99 said:


> Sounds good.
> 
> How much is the income tax revenue ?
> How much would a 15% GST generate ?



I think the GST will have to be higher than 15%, but time will tell.
As I said a couple of years ago, NIDS is the elephant in the room, I can't wait to see the latest figures. 
In Mandurah they are going to have to put in dedicated gopher tracks, the amount of gophers on the footpaths is out of control, my guess is NDIS is funding it.
The MIL was looking at buying a new gopher, there appears to be an NDIS price and a private buyer price, I'm not sure which is higher.


----------



## PZ99 (8 February 2022)

You need a rat test to qualify for a gopher


----------



## SirRumpole (8 February 2022)

"
*Get rid of company tax and all its complexities, so that every company that does business here pays 15% of their turnover in Tax.
None of this transfer pricing bull****, intercompany loans into low tax off shore havens etc.*
"

Well worth considering.


----------



## mullokintyre (8 February 2022)

PZ99 said:


> Sounds good.
> 
> How much is the income tax revenue ?
> How much would a 15% GST generate ?







Kinda hard to say as it does not say whether things like capital gains, FBT ,  are included and where.
If we add 50% increase to the GST, and  include all the items that are currently tax free, you could well get there.
Need acess to some treasury and ATO data that is not available to us mere mortals.
Mick


----------



## mullokintyre (8 February 2022)

One of my acquantance, a died in the wool National Party supporter, sent this to me.
He's doomed .




Mick


----------



## Joe Blow (9 February 2022)

Investoradam said:


> ok boomer! you either listen to to much ABC or SKY
> well thats labors current line.
> secondly why is it australias responsibility to bring 3rd worlds out of povity why cant they get there **** together?
> why did we have to sell our sovereignty out for this?
> ...




Firstly, tone down the insults. They are not necessary.

Secondly, all your political posts are starting to sound the same and they are riddled with spelling errors. We get the point. It's all the globalists and the zionists and the leftists fault. Perhaps you should consider posting in threads other than political ones, because these kind of unhinged rants are getting tedious and repetitive. You've made your point, once was enough.


----------



## mullokintyre (9 February 2022)

Janet Albrechtson is one of the better writers around, and like myself a small "l" liberal, which means youget abused by both sides of politics.
Today, in one paragraph writing in the Australian, she summed up all that is wrong with Scott Morrison.


> When Morrison describes the aspirations of Australians, it’s like reading a Hallmark card. He never braves the harder stuff, the values a democracy depends on to function. Truth be told, I can’t work out what values excite him politically. Except winning. In some ways he’s the Liberal Party’s Kevin Rudd, only less annoying.



Trouble is, what replaces him is no less depressing and comes with just as much baggage.
Mick


----------



## SirRumpole (9 February 2022)

mullokintyre said:


> Janet Albrechtson is one of the better writers around, and like myself a small "l" liberal, which means youget abused by both sides of politics.
> Today, in one paragraph writing in the Australian, she summed up all that is wrong with Scott Morrison.
> 
> Trouble is, *what replaces him* is no less depressing and comes with just as much baggage.
> Mick



Do you mean Albanese or Morrison's Liberal Party enemies (sorry, colleagues).


----------



## wayneL (9 February 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> Do you mean Albanese or Morrison's Liberal Party enemies (sorry, colleagues).



It's a no win, either way


----------



## Tisme (9 February 2022)

mullokintyre said:


> View attachment 137185
> 
> Kinda hard to say as it does not say whether things like capital gains, FBT ,  are included and where.
> If we add 50% increase to the GST, and  include all the items that are currently tax free, you could well get there.
> ...



Comparing as % to  GDP/capita (in US$) year on year reveals some truths about personal income tax


----------



## mullokintyre (9 February 2022)

Tisme said:


> Comparing as % to  GDP/capita (in US$) year on year reveals some truths about personal income tax



Why would you compare Australian Taxation figures per capita in USD?
Seems rather meaningless.
Mick


----------



## Tisme (9 February 2022)

mullokintyre said:


> Why would you compare Australian Taxation figures per capita in USD?
> Seems rather meaningless



Because US$ is the metric of value on a global economy. It's a measure of your ability to buy goods and services provided in that sphere. On the shares front your purchasing power of foreign equity is diminished by the domestic tax take.


----------



## Smurf1976 (10 February 2022)

mullokintyre said:


> Trouble is, what replaces him is no less depressing and comes with just as much baggage.



That's the consequence of selecting leaders on personality rather than ability.

I mean seriously, I couldn't give a damn if the PM watches football, eats pies or whatever. What matters is ability to do the job and for that matter actually having a decent go at doing it.

On the personal side, well I really couldn't care less if they're anyone from a former accountant to a stripper if they're capable of leading and willing to do so.


----------



## mullokintyre (10 February 2022)

Smurf1976 said:


> That's the consequence of selecting leaders on personality rather than ability.
> 
> I mean seriously, I couldn't give a damn if the PM watches football, eats pies or whatever. What matters is ability to do the job and for that matter actually having a decent go at doing it.
> 
> On the personal side, well I really couldn't care less if they're anyone from a former accountant to a stripper if they're capable of leading and willing to do so.



Quite true, but how do you judge their ability to do the job?
Except in a very few failed cases, most applicants have never done the job, at best they have had the vice captain role, or led the other other team who really don't have be accountable to anything.
Indeed, most applicants have never worked outside the public sphere.
They have never had to  cut down expenses when the business turns sour or economic conditions go against them.
They have never had to completely change direction of their business when technology, economics or politics demand they do so.
Because they rely on the patronage of whoever it was that tipped the most into their election coffers, their sense of what is important can be a little off.
But what is most damming of all, they live work and breathe in a strange remote place called canberra that bears little if any reality to the rest of Australia.
Been very few people in politics I admired since Tim Fisher and John Button retired.
Mick


----------



## SirRumpole (10 February 2022)

mullokintyre said:


> Quite true, but how do you judge their ability to do the job?
> Except in a very few failed cases, most applicants have never done the job, at best they have had the vice captain role, or led the other other team who really don't have be accountable to anything.
> Indeed, most applicants have never worked outside the public sphere.
> They have never had to  cut down expenses when the business turns sour or economic conditions go against them.
> ...




It really comes down to giving one side a try and if they don't do the job properly, then give the other lot a go.

A pretty flawed system, but it's the best we've got at the moment imo.


----------



## mullokintyre (10 February 2022)

mullokintyre said:


> The problem is that Morrison, like Turnbull, Abbott, Howard and Keating all came from NSW.
> Rudd from Qld (nuff said).
> Hawke, the best Labour PM came from Vic, Gillard, the second best, also came from Vic.
> They just keep picking the wrong state.
> Mick



I should have added  that Scomo's most likely replacement is also from NSW (ie. Sydney).
Things will not be any better.
Mick


----------



## sptrawler (10 February 2022)

Yes Mick, Western Australia can only lay claim to one Prime Minister John Curtin, by all accounts Australia's best PM.


----------



## Humid (10 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Yes Mick, Western Australia can only lay claim to one Prime Minister, John Curtin.



Handy having a house in Sydney.....should be made to live in Canberra....in winter


----------



## Tisme (10 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Yes Mick, Western Australia can only lay claim to one Minister John Curtin, by all accounts Australia's best PM.



I think you'll find WA lays claim to Leederville boy Bob Hawke too


----------



## sptrawler (10 February 2022)

Tisme said:


> I think you'll find WA lays claim to Leederville boy Bob Hawke too



I thought he was born in Bordertown, but grew up in W.A, where he probably had the Vic chip taken off his shoulder. 🤣


----------



## Tisme (10 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> I thought he was born in Bordertown, but grew up in W.A, where he probably had the Vic chip taken off his shoulder. 🤣



Yeah his Uncle was a WA Premier too. But for all intents and purposes he was Wassie bred model.


----------



## Smurf1976 (10 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> I thought he was born in Bordertown, but grew up in W.A, where he probably had the Vic chip taken off his shoulder. 🤣



Whilst near the border as the name implies, Bordertown is in SA. 

Notable things, apart from Hawke having lived there, is a park with white kangaroos in it.


----------



## Smurf1976 (10 February 2022)

mullokintyre said:


> Quite true, but how do you judge their ability to do the job?



If it were a regular employment situation then an employer would be looking for some sort of experience at leadership, getting things done and operating under pressure as key attributes for a job of this nature.

Having run any successful business with employees would be extremely relevant. Doesn't matter what the business was so long as it was successful and involved a workforce not just themselves or family.

Having been in charge of anything big, needing to be done in real time without delay and where failure brings serious consequences such that problems must be worked around immediately also extremely relevant. Operational in charge roles in things like emergency services, plane or ship captains, industrial plant control rooms, logistics, and so on. Anything where you get unexpected serious problems without warning which require an immediate response and the mental ability to attend to multiple tasks at once, under serious pressure, and not mess them up. Operational jobs where there's no option to not do it, failure to deliver in real time just isn't acceptable.

At the opposite end of the scale, not desirable, an entire career in anything which involves pedantic argument with no requirement to deliver results in a timely manner. Noting that such things exist in the private sector as well as public.


----------



## mullokintyre (10 February 2022)

The problem is, that  having the leader with all these qualities is not enough, because the leader is but one voice in many.
You need to have a majority of participants like this just to get anything done.
And then you have to overcome the massive inertia that is the Public Service.
Their processes, their protocols, their  nclusivity, their consulting with all the stakeholders  and all the other empty things they go on with.
Tough gig, very tough gig.
Mick


----------



## sptrawler (10 February 2022)

Interesting snippet in the paper.
Biotechs applaud tax cut move to keep Aussie research​The federal government’s ‘patent box’ will almost halve the tax rate on Australian research that is commercialised locally.


----------



## wayneL (10 February 2022)

It's a pity we can't put the bastards on a 6 month trial


----------



## mullokintyre (10 February 2022)

Why not go one step further and have a few of them in there on work experience?
They could find out if the had a liking for the work, and everyone else would get an ideas as to whether they had the cajones to do it full time.
Mick


----------



## Knobby22 (10 February 2022)

Today was interesting. 

The religious laws which were designed to wedge Labor ended up wedging the Libs due the transgender clauses with many Libs crossing the floor.

More on a share investor interests the proxy advisor legislation designed to cripple them and give more power to directors and less to shareholders also didn't get through the Senate. I was more disgusted with this legislation.

Basically though this shows that the Liberals have principled members who won't sell us down the river and that Morrison has lost control of the party.


----------



## PZ99 (10 February 2022)

Well he's well and truly lost control of Peter Dutton... twice in one week.

I reckon Dutto has dropped himself right in it today


----------



## mullokintyre (10 February 2022)

PZ99 said:


> Well he's well and truly lost control of Peter Dutton... twice in one week.
> 
> I reckon Dutto has dropped himself right in it today



The libs have read the tea leaves and they know they are going to be sitting on the other side soon enough.
The contenders are positioning them selves for when Scomo falls on his sword.
Mick


----------



## sptrawler (10 February 2022)

mullokintyre said:


> The libs have read the tea leaves and they know they are going to be sitting on the other side soon enough.
> The contenders are positioning them selves for when Scomo falls on his sword.
> Mick



It probably isnt a bad time to lose, some ugly decisions have to be made, in the next term.


----------



## moXJO (10 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> It probably isnt a bad time to lose, some ugly decisions have to be made, in the next term.



Exactly.

Wonder if Labor will blow up like the current Democrats in the US. I'm worried we get a similar sht show. 

A lot of Labors front bench were bloody hopeless last time.


----------



## moXJO (11 February 2022)

I will say that Liberals must be looking at a total wipeout. They have completely turned off their base.


----------



## PZ99 (11 February 2022)

moXJO said:


> I will say that Liberals must be looking at a total wipeout. They have completely turned off their base.



Historically, the Coalition have picked up a fair bit of ground during an election campaign so I still think they'll be competitive for as long as they mute Dutton


----------



## moXJO (11 February 2022)

PZ99 said:


> Historically, the Coalition have picked up a fair bit of ground during an election campaign so I still think they'll be competitive for as long as they mute Dutton



They even pi55ed off all the religious voters by dropping that bill.
And they are updating vaccinations for boosters. Not to mention their intrusion into privacy and destroying rights. 

If Labor shows they are going to be worse then libs might make up ground.


----------



## SirRumpole (11 February 2022)

Odds for another Dutton challenge ?

About evens I reckon.


----------



## wayneL (11 February 2022)

moXJO said:


> They even pi55ed off all the religious voters by dropping that bill.
> And they are updating vaccinations for boosters. Not to mention their intrusion into privacy and destroying rights.
> 
> If Labor shows they are going to be worse then libs might make up ground.



All Labor have to do is STFU.

But the minors could still be the wild card... Not to actually win govt, but to hold balance of power. More and more people are breaking out of the stupid 2 party paradigm.


----------



## Humid (11 February 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> Today was interesting.
> 
> The religious laws which were designed to wedge Labor ended up wedging the Libs due the transgender clauses with many Libs crossing the floor.
> 
> ...



This bit 









						Josh Frydenberg sustains full-body gravel rash
					

Frydenberg’s complete lack of political judgment has been exposed for all to see.




					www.afr.com


----------



## sptrawler (11 February 2022)

moXJO said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Wonder if Labor will blow up like the current Democrats in the US. I'm worried we get a similar sht show.
> 
> A lot of Labors front bench were bloody hopeless last time.



A lot will depend on how close Labor's affiliation with the union is, if the unions are on board they will get a lot of things through, if not well they will struggle.
I think Albo will resonate with the workers better than Shorten did, but Albo is no Hawke, so it will be interesting. They will have to hit the top end of town and GST IMO.
Internal polling by the Libs must be showing a wipeout, the way they are cannibalising themselves, way too many leaners and not enough lifters in the party. As Abbott would say. 🤣


----------



## sptrawler (11 February 2022)

moXJO said:


> They even pi55ed off all the religious voters by dropping that bill.
> And they are updating vaccinations for boosters. Not to mention their intrusion into privacy and destroying rights.
> 
> If Labor shows they are going to be worse then libs might make up ground.



I think it will be a bit like the U.S, vote for Labor just to get something else in the media, other than the P.M.👍

Even Leigh Sales has burnt herself out, trying to get rid of Morrison. So there's the silver lining, we might start and get some current affairs back on the ABC, instead of non stop anti Govt propaganda. The down side is the ABC will have to find some content. 🤣


----------



## Humid (11 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> I think it will be a bit like the U.S, vote for Labor just to get something else in the media, other than the P.M.👍
> 
> Even Leigh Sales has burnt herself out, trying to get rid of Morrison. So there's the silver lining, we might start and get some current affairs back on the ABC, instead of non stop anti Govt propaganda. The down side is the ABC will have to find some content. 🤣



60 minutes on Sunday night sounds more up your alley....get one of your grandkids to show the ropes of a remote control


----------



## sptrawler (11 February 2022)

Humid said:


> 60 minutes on Sunday night sounds more up your alley....get one of your grandkids to show the ropes of a remote control



The kids stream T.V and the missus and I record what we want to watch and it aint news and current affairs.lol
Last time I saw 60 minutes Jana Wendt and Ray Martin were on it, must have been 20 years ago.


----------



## Humid (11 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> The kids stream T.V and the missus and I record what we want to watch and it aint news and current affairs.lol
> Last time I saw 60 minutes Jana Wendt was on it, must have been 20 years ago.



you know you want it









						PM busts out ukulele in upcoming interview
					






					9now.nine.com.au


----------



## sptrawler (11 February 2022)

Humid said:


> you know you want it
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, banjo would be more you're scene.🤣


----------



## Knobby22 (11 February 2022)

Humid said:


> you know you want it
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thought it was a Betoota Advocate joke but its real !!


----------



## Humid (11 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Yes, banjo would be more you're scene.🤣





Knobby22 said:


> Thought it was a Betoota Advocate joke but its real !!



just remember you cant unwatch it


----------



## Humid (12 February 2022)

Nauru detention centre operator makes $101m profit – at least $500,000 for each detainee
					

Canstruct International’s holding company has more than $340m in cash and investments, according to accounts filed with regulator




					www.theguardian.com
				




Makes me feel better about paying tax
This country is fu


----------



## sptrawler (12 February 2022)

Humid said:


> Nauru detention centre operator makes $101m profit – at least $500,000 for each detainee
> 
> 
> Canstruct International’s holding company has more than $340m in cash and investments, according to accounts filed with regulator
> ...



The good thing is, it will all be fixed up soon.🤣


----------



## Humid (12 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> The good thing is, it will all be fixed up soon.🤣



Enabled by your vote you muppet


----------



## Investoradam (12 February 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> It really comes down to giving one side a try and if they don't do the job properly, then give the other lot a go.
> 
> A pretty flawed system, but it's the best we've got at the moment imo.



They both work for the same over lord!
The LNP have been attempting to sink the Titanic 
Labor just want to go kamikaze on the Titanic whilst virtual signaling they are saving the world through diversity to have its leftist simpleton have that warm fuzzy feelings


----------



## Humid (12 February 2022)

Investoradam said:


> They both work for the same over lord!
> The LNP have been attempting to sink the Titanic
> Labor just want to go kamikaze on the Titanic whilst virtual signaling they are saving the world through diversity to have its leftist simpleton have that warm fuzzy feelings



So what's the answer,how do we fix it


----------



## moXJO (12 February 2022)

Humid said:


> So what's the answer,how do we fix it



We have fixed it. Unless we want 50000 people floating in on boats again.


----------



## macca (12 February 2022)

moXJO said:


> We have fixed it. Unless we want 50000 people floating in on boats again.




I asked my left leaning, pro refugee children their solution to the boats back then, we should let everyone come they said.

I said there are 70 mil people who want to come here, where are we going to put them, how do we feed them and fix up their medical problems. The hospitals have waiting lists already, are you going to wait 5 years to see a Doc ?

Funny how they shut up about "let them come" after that.


----------



## Humid (12 February 2022)

moXJO said:


> We have fixed it. Unless we want 50000 people floating in on boats again.



So where you from bro


----------



## sptrawler (12 February 2022)

Humid said:


> Enabled by your vote you muppet



I see you're still struggling coming to terms with the fact, that some people vote according to reasoning, rather than conditioning as you do.😉


----------



## Humid (13 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> I see you're still struggling coming to terms with the fact, that some people vote according to reasoning, rather than conditioning as you do.😉



Again you assume I vote


----------



## moXJO (13 February 2022)

Humid said:


> So where you from bro



I was smart enough to catch a plane.
How's that WA hard border you been supporting going?


----------



## Humid (13 February 2022)

moXJO said:


> I was smart enough to catch a plane.
> How's that WA hard border you been supporting going?



Awesome my wages are higher than ever due to the lack of flogs from the east like you


----------



## moXJO (13 February 2022)

Humid said:


> Awesome my wages are higher than ever due to the lack of flogs from the east like you



Someone's got to work the 'rub n tug' shops I suppose.


----------



## Humid (13 February 2022)

moXJO said:


> Someone's got to work the 'rub n tug' shops I suppose.



wear a mask please


----------



## Investoradam (13 February 2022)

Humid said:


> So what's the answer,how do we fix it



get rid of the Champaign socialists of the UN firstly & foremost they have in the past and currently serve us nothing! except drain Australian resources
corporal punishment for treason! let the Australian people decide the fate of the country not lawless politicians
leave the ponzi scheme of the IMF and Australia have there independence
reclaim all Australian assets so our wealth stays on Australian shores
for starters 
scrap the politician pension and force them to have the jab, why are they even exempt in the first place


----------



## IFocus (13 February 2022)

Humid said:


> Awesome my wages are higher than ever due to the lack of flogs from the east like you





Talking to local building trades, best rates they have seen in more than 30 years no way they want the border open.


----------



## moXJO (13 February 2022)

IFocus said:


> Talking to local building trades, best rates they have seen in more than 30 years no way they want the border open.



Umm it's the same across Australia. But you guys probably don't know because you're locked up in the state of solitude.


----------



## Humid (14 February 2022)

moXJO said:


> Umm it's the same across Australia. But you guys probably don't know because you're locked up in the state of solitude.



So where have you been with your new found freedom?


----------



## PZ99 (14 February 2022)

Might need to open this in a private/incognito/nocookie window to read this downer 









						Playing to Coalition’s strengths is the narrow path to victory
					

The government must make economy and security the focus, and get away from extraneous debates about transgender schoolyard rights and a federal ICAC.




					www.afr.com
				




Also...









						Anthony Albanese could be our new PM. We asked undecided voters if they think he's up to the job
					

Anthony Albanese needs to establish trust with the public to win the election, but undecided voters in key marginal seats say they remain unsure about who he is and what he wants for the country, writes Sean Nicholls.




					www.abc.net.au
				




_"Never count the bloody prize money on the last lap!"_


----------



## moXJO (14 February 2022)

Humid said:


> So where have you been with your new found freedom?



Visiting relos mainly. I have had some with the big C that I previously had a hard time getting to.


----------



## Humid (14 February 2022)

moXJO said:


> Umm it's the same across Australia. But you guys probably don't know because you're locked up in the state of solitude.



Nah we can go out you're thinking of Waynal


----------



## basilio (14 February 2022)

A bit of fun.

* Scott surprises Jenny for Valentine’s Day with beautiful bunch of carparks *






The Prime Minister has shown his romantic side, surprising wife Jenny with a dozen hand-picked commuter carparks.

“Oh, they’re just gorgeous,” Jenny is said to have exclaimed, noting that they were totally unnecessary. “I’ll just find a marginal electorate to pop them in”.                                                                                

The PM said he’d been saving taxpayer money for months to pay for the gorgeous gift. “I picked them myself. I had a spreadsheet set up and everything”.

He later denied having any knowledge of the gift.









						Scott surprises Jenny for Valentine’s Day with beautiful bunch of carparks
					

“I’ll just find a marginal electorate to pop them in”.




					www.theshovel.com.au


----------



## Knobby22 (14 February 2022)

Here's something a bit funnier.
(Just a joke everyone).


----------



## Macquack (14 February 2022)

Investoradam said:


> get rid of the Champaign socialists of the UN firstly & foremost they have in the past and currently serve us nothing! except drain Australian resources
> corporal punishment for treason! let the Australian people decide the fate of the country not lawless politicians
> leave the *ponzi scheme of the IMF* and Australia have there independence
> reclaim all Australian assets so our wealth stays on Australian shores
> ...



Loosely agree with that, but you need to work out your position in the big "ponzi scheme". You do a lot of whinging and at the same time you have "multiply investment properties". Appears to me that you are perpetuating the "ponzi scheme" that you are complaining about.


----------



## IFocus (14 February 2022)

moXJO said:


> Umm it's the same across Australia. But you guys probably don't know because you're locked up in the state of solitude.




Thats how we like it and tatts of McGowan


----------



## sptrawler (15 February 2022)

What Im finding interesting, is those that call out trolling, seem to find it ok, as long as they agree with the person to be trolled.🤣🤣
Its ok though those that do it, wont even realise the irony.


----------



## Humid (15 February 2022)

Don't think i've ever trolled someone with a beheading but are you up for it Sp


----------



## Humid (15 February 2022)

Senator Tim Ayres: From the Senate Estimates late shift last night. Peter Dutton awarded Canstruct Internati... - AusPol.co
					

Labor Senators - Senator Tim Ayres From the Senate Estimates late shift last night. Peter Dutton awarded Canstruct International a $1.8 billion contract despite having: -




					auspol.co
				




Your daily dose of curruption


----------



## moXJO (15 February 2022)

Humid said:


> Senator Tim Ayres: From the Senate Estimates late shift last night. Peter Dutton awarded Canstruct Internati... - AusPol.co
> 
> 
> Labor Senators - Senator Tim Ayres From the Senate Estimates late shift last night. Peter Dutton awarded Canstruct International a $1.8 billion contract despite having: -
> ...



what was the Vic government corruption about?


----------



## Knobby22 (15 February 2022)

moXJO said:


> what was the Vic government corruption about?



Red shirts affair. Using government paid staff to do electoral work.
8 years ago now but still shocking and wrong. No one was charged.


----------



## moXJO (15 February 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> Red shirts affair. Using government paid staff to do electoral work.
> 8 years ago now but still shocking and wrong. No one was charged.



Meh. Sounds like a Tuesday in Sydney.


----------



## PZ99 (16 February 2022)

Sounds like Sydney in the 1970's/80's... back in the days of Murray Farquhar

Anyone remember Murray Farquhar?  He was the son of Mother Farquhar.


----------



## sptrawler (16 February 2022)

PZ99 said:


> Sounds like Sydney in the 1970's/80's... back in the days of Murray Farquhar
> 
> Anyone remember Murray Farquhar?  He was the son of Mother Farquhar.



Any relation to this dude? looks like a Sydney sider, you know tickets on themselve's. 🤣


----------



## orr (16 February 2022)

PZ99 said:


> Sounds like Sydney in the 1970's/80's... back in the days of Murray Farquhar
> 
> Anyone remember Murray Farquhar?  He was the son of Mother Farquhar.



That's cruel PZ; very cruel...
There's many contributers who appear linguistically  'comprimised' or have Engish as a second langage...  and are traglcally missing out .......


----------



## sptrawler (16 February 2022)

We all have bad days @orr  🤣 



orr said:


> There will be nothing that resembles plan other than not to hve plan till post the next Fuderal election.  At that point Australia will have gone with a cross bench at either the Forest,Cannon-Brookes, Zarli Steggle end of the spectrum or the Kelly, Palmer, Malcolm Roberts OneNation dead end of the scale.
> Then , as not since our short lived Carbon price, Australia has a chance at a successful Plan for a future: Or it will have a plan/shambles that will fail the many, best described as a continuance....


----------



## orr (16 February 2022)

Very good Trawler...What though? you unable to get the jist? (more than likely)
So over to you; Give us you're best description ( feel free to list the success)  of Morrisons term...
But... There's only two to choose from....
Planned or Unplanned.... misogonystic rape excusing (only Barnaby's word to go ) , anti -scientific, future distructive, race baiting hate mungering, economy destroying.... Shambles. 

Morrison... everything I ever expected and _less_. 
By-election in Cook later this year? care to put $10 on it Trawler?


----------



## sptrawler (16 February 2022)

I've already stated my intention and I'm not putting money on Morrison, I didn't last election either. 
A mate cleaned up on the last election, I'm just not a gambler, the money was too hard earned to be betting it away.

With regard Morrisons successes, I guess cutting his holiday short to stop the bushfires for the State fire brigades was a winner, he didn't come over here last week to put ours out, but it is W.A and we can sort $hit out.
The corona virus has probably been a win compared to most of the World, in the last two years.
Those on welfare had a beano with the dole doubling, and now everything is settling down the dole has been increased by $50.
Teachers etc had a great long holiday.
Businesses had a huge injection and the all ords within 12 months has hit new records, after the biggest fall since the GFC.
Otherwise not much I suppose.
But I still think it is time for a change of Government, there is no way anything will get through parliament, unless Labor get in with a clear majority IMO.
Guess I'm just not a rusted on sort of person. 👍

Your quote:
_Planned or Unplanned.... misogonystic rape excusing (only Barnaby's word to go ) , anti -scientific, future distructive, race baiting hate mungering, economy destroying.... Shambles._

That to me is just mindless ranting, every party has its bad eggs, they should be thrown out and usually are. Only my opinion, but I could write the same scathing comments about most of our past Governments, both Liberal and Labor, they all have skeletons.
I could actually break that list down to dot points and give examples very easily for both Liberal and Labor.


----------



## basilio (18 February 2022)

This is pretty edgy. Title says it all but the "story" delivers the other barrel - and then reloads and goes again.

“*This election will be focused on racism” Morrison says in surprisingly candid briefing * 

https://www.theshovel.com.au/2022/02/18/election-focused-on-racism-morrison-says-briefing/ 

_‘Japanese-y Albanese’ is what we’ve got so far – it’s the wrong country, sure, but I’m sure you’ll agree that doesn’t really matter. It’s the right part of the world”._


----------



## Humid (19 February 2022)

It’s time to return to Costello economics, whoever wins the federal election
					

Rising prices for fuel and groceries, rising mortgage interest rates ... voters are starting to realise a direct link between the huge hole in the federal budget and the holes in their pockets.




					www.smh.com.au
				




lolz


----------



## The Triangle (19 February 2022)

At least this explains why scomo seems to be completely blind to everything.


----------



## sptrawler (19 February 2022)

The Triangle said:


> At least this explains why scomo seems to be completely blind to everything.



Yes I would be surprised if that sort of electioneering would get much traction these days, jeez I'm old and it doesn't resonate with me so I can't imagine it working with the younger generation.
I still think Albo has to pick up the pace, to get a message across, he could find himself having people think, better the devil you know.


----------



## Knobby22 (19 February 2022)

The Triangle said:


>




Lol, this man runs our country.


----------



## sptrawler (19 February 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> Lol, this man runs our country.



The problem is, the bar hasn't been very high, for a long time.


----------



## Humid (19 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> The problem is, the bar hasn't been very high, for a long time.



Has it dawned on you yet that you voted for this lot?
For franking credits that were basically wiped out due to covid lol


----------



## Sean K (19 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> I still think Albo has to pick up the pace, to get a message across, he could find himself having people think, better the devil you know.




I think he's doing all he can, and I think he's going to do a Bradbury.

And, with a front bench of Keneally, Bowen, Plibersek, Wong, Burke, Shorten - God help us.


----------



## sptrawler (19 February 2022)

Humid said:


> Has it dawned on you yet that you voted for this lot?
> For franking credits that were basically wiped out due to covid lol



Has it dawned on you, that you should be asking older people what they have learnt through life.
Rather than trying to take the pizz out of them?
When I finally got into a position, that I had enough money to afford to start investing, I asked the old guys who obviously invested well what they would invest in, if they were in my position.
Well long story short, I retired at 55, hope you finally use your mouth and ears to your advantage, but I doubt it. 🤣
You obviously know way too much, to be bothered listening to old farts. 👍
Why not just flck off to facebook or whatever, where you can be a legend amongst the other young legends.


----------



## basilio (19 February 2022)

I just don't know if this true.  

But it is far too much fun to ignore so I'm giving it a whirl.

“I’m Not Tanking This Election” Says Scotty During George Pell Photo Op​






*LOUIS BURKE* | Culture | Contact


Although he advocated for the stolen generation to accept Kevin Rudd’s apology, made a baseless claim that a member of the opposition is a Chinese spy and absolutely butchered a piece of NZ/AUS music history, all within the same week, Scotty from Marketing insists he is not deliberately tanking this upcoming election.

And he’s got just the guy to stand by his side.

Showing up to the type of photo op that has made up 99% of his time in power, Scotty appeared alongside disgraced Vatican Cardinal George Pell, in an apparent attempt to show he’s for all Australians no matter what Christian denomination they are.

“You know these guys don’t even eat meat on Fridays!” stated Scotty, with his arm around Pell.

“Guess it’s a seafood curry tonight guys!”








						"I'm Not Tanking This Election" Says Scotty During George Pell Photo Op — The Betoota Advocate
					

LOUIS BURKE | Culture | Contact Although he advocated for the stolen generation to accept Kevin Rudd’s apology, made a baseless claim that a member of the opposition is a Chinese spy and absolutely butchered a piece of NZ/AUS music history, all within the same week, Scotty from Marketing insists...




					www.betootaadvocate.com


----------



## basilio (23 February 2022)

This seems like a very good idea. Lets go ScoMo !!

* Australia sends Tony Abbott to have man-to-man with Putin * 






Saying that someone needed to talk to the Russian President ‘man to man’, Tony Abbott has volunteered to travel to Moscow to see if they can’t sort out this Ukraine mess over a beer and a few onions.

At the airport this morning, Mr Abbott said he reckoned he understood the Russian leader better than most. “He’s a small man that likes to take his shirt off, get out into the outdoors and get the testosterone pumping, so I think we’ve got a lot in common,” Abbott said. “I’m into riding bikes, whereas he’s more into riding wild horses bareback, but it’s basically the same thing”.                                                                                                              
Mr Abbott said he was confident the meeting would go well. “We’ll break the ice with an arm wrestle, flex our pectoral muscles for a few minutes, he’ll make a joke about shirtfronting, I’ll have a gentle prod at his human rights record and then we’ll get down to the business of sorting out geopolitical disputes. I’m sure after chatting he’ll see that invading Ukraine isn’t what it’s cracked up to be”.

Abbott insisted his 2014 threat to ‘shirtfront’ Putin was taken out of misunderstood. “What I meant was to get in front of the Russian President with our shirts off, which is what we’ll be doing on this trip” .









						Australia sends Tony Abbott to have man-to-man with Putin
					

"Let's see if we can't sort this out over a beer and a few onions"




					www.theshovel.com.au


----------



## moXJO (23 February 2022)

At this point I want scomo gone and am willing to suffer through whoever is next.

Idiot is talking to big for his boots. I don't want a damn warmonger in control


----------



## sptrawler (23 February 2022)

moXJO said:


> At this point I want scomo gone and am willing to suffer through whoever is next.
> 
> Idiot is talking to big for his boots. I don't want a damn warmonger in control



Yes there is one thing supporting your allies, it is a whole new level when you are cranking up the rhetoric with the mountain gorilla, China may say stuff Taiwan, well colonise Australia. 🤣


----------



## Investoradam (23 February 2022)

Sean K said:


> I think he's doing all he can, and I think he's going to do a Bradbury.
> 
> And, with a front bench of Keneally, Bowen, Plibersek, Wong, Burke, Shorten - God help us.



 all worshipers  of gough and Whorke!
exactly


----------



## moXJO (23 February 2022)

Sean K said:


> I think he's doing all he can, and I think he's going to do a Bradbury.
> 
> And, with a front bench of Keneally, Bowen, Plibersek, Wong, Burke, Shorten - God help us.



This is definitely a possibility. Their front bench is radioactive. 

Just one woke statement could blow up any chances


----------



## SirRumpole (23 February 2022)

Not to me


moXJO said:


> This is definitely a possibility. Their front bench is radioactive.
> 
> Just one woke statement could blow up any chances




Not to mention Porter, Taylor, Robert, Colbert, Cash et al , incompetents the lot of the
m


----------



## Sean K (23 February 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> Not to me
> 
> 
> Not to mention Porter, Taylor, Robert, Colbert, Cash et al , incompetents the lot of the
> m




It's a sad state in Australian politics at the moment. I don't think there is one single candidate on any side I would really want to choose. 

Well, maybe Bob Katter. Rolled gold. Should be PM.


----------



## wayneL (23 February 2022)

Sean K said:


> It's a sad state in Australian politics at the moment. I don't think there is one single candidate on any side I would really want to choose.
> 
> Well, maybe Bob Katter. Rolled gold. Should be PM.



Jesus, here I have been thinking in terms of overall parties. I like a couple of the minors in this regard.

... But prime minister material? I can't think of a single person in any of the parties with the gravitas and without some sort of deal-breaker.

Sean, from your military perspective could that be a good thing? As in the US Marines concept of the red stripe?

Or are we a rudderless sh¹t show?


----------



## Sean K (23 February 2022)

wayneL said:


> Jesus, here I have been thinking in terms of overall parties. I like a couple of the minors in this regard.
> 
> ... But prime minister material? I can't think of a single person in any of the parties with the gravitas and without some sort of deal-breaker.
> 
> ...




Katter is Sideshow Bob. We are rudderless. 

I could be biased in saying that Hastie might be potential, in 15 or so years. 

Being even more biased, any of our last military GGs could have been PM material. 

If we could raise Monash, then he would probably do.


----------



## SirRumpole (23 February 2022)

Is Albo a Kremlin candidate ?

Would be a catchy phrase for our dear Prime Minister to use in an election.


----------



## sptrawler (23 February 2022)

Sean K said:


> Katter is Sideshow Bob. We are rudderless.
> 
> I could be biased in saying that Hastie might be potential, in 15 or so years.
> 
> ...



I think you are a lot closer to the money than what people realise.
Russia and China ie Putin and Xi know that now the U.S has put in a head of state that really wont be able to rally a CWA meeting let alone a military response, there is no way that any intervention will happen.
The EU is a mess, let's be honest France is leading them, enough said.
The U.K is battening down the hatches.
Australia is in need of a Statesman and there really isn't one to be seen on both sides of politics, our only saving grace is we are a long way away from China, but we are also a long way away from anyone who could feasibly help us.
Interesting times IMO.
I think times were a lot more stable with the carrot haired nutjob next to the big red button, because Putin and Xi didn't want to call his bluff. 
You never know, the furthest thing from our minds in 10 years, might be the dole, the pension, land rights, penalty rates, and long service leave, people smugglers might be backloading.  🤣


----------



## sptrawler (23 February 2022)

Well there is one good thing to come out of the latest tensions, Australia shouldn't have to loose any more soldiers on French soil, like they did in the last two world wars.  









						French strategy keeps Australia in freeze
					

France has downgraded its diplomatic relations with Australia in a new Indo-Pacific strategy.French President Emmanuel Macron reacted with fury last year when Prime Minister Scott Morrison revealed plans to scrap a $90 billion deal to buy submarines.




					au.news.yahoo.com
				



From the article:
A document issued by Mr Macron and his foreign affairs minister, France's Indo-Pacific Strategy, takes a cool approach to Australia.

"Australia's decision in September 2021, without prior consultation or warning, to break off the partnership of trust with France that included the Future Submarine Program (FSP), has led to a re-evaluation of the past strategic partnership the two countries," the 67-page document reads.

"France will pursue bilateral cooperation with Australia on a case-by-case basis, according to its national interests and those of regional partners.

"France intends to maintain close relations with the United States, an ally and major player in the Indo-Pacific, and to strengthen coordination, including on issues raised by the announcement of the AUKUS agreement."


----------



## Humid (23 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Well there is one good thing to come out of the latest tensions, Australia shouldn't have to loose any more soldiers on French soil, like they did in the last two world wars.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The only thing loose is your flabby butthole


----------



## Humid (23 February 2022)

Get rid of religious flogs and lawyers and start again


----------



## sptrawler (23 February 2022)

Humid said:


> The only thing loose is your flabby butthole



Wow, even for you that is below the navel and no doubt being familiar with buttholes you would be an expert. 🤣
I didn't see anything wrong with my comment, if Macron can disassociate himself from Australia over a cancelled contract, it just highlights how shallow the dude is, when you consider Australian troops went half the way around the World to drag their ar$e out of the $hit, TWICE.


----------



## Humid (23 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Wow, even for you that is below the navel and no doubt being familiar with buttholes you would be an expert. 🤣
> I didn't see anything wrong with my comment, if Macron can disassociate himself from Australia over a cancelled contract, it just highlights how shallow the dude is, when you consider Australian troops went half the way around the World to drag their ar$e out of the $hit, TWICE.



Lose ffs


----------



## SirRumpole (23 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Wow, even for you that is below the navel and no doubt being familiar with buttholes you would be an expert. 🤣
> I didn't see anything wrong with my comment, if Macron can disassociate himself from Australia over a cancelled contract, it just highlights how shallow the dude is, when you consider Australian troops went half the way around the World to drag their ar$e out of the $hit, TWICE.



Yeah but Macron has to run for elections so he has to appear tough to his electorate. So what does France mean to us anyway ? Just part of a Europe that puts tarrifs and quotas on our products so that they can protect their inefficient and molly coddled farmers.

Let them whinge, they were behind schedule and over budget on the subs and it was just a matter of time before we got Jack of them.


----------



## sptrawler (23 February 2022)

Humid said:


> Lose ffs



Christ you're not going to start on English spelling and grammar, FFS. That would be funny. 
I'll have a flckn full time job correcting your garbage, the first half is deciphering, then would come the correcting.🤣


----------



## Humid (23 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Christ you're not going to start on English spelling and grammar, FFS. That would be funny.
> I'll have a flckn full time job correcting your garbage, the first half is deciphering, then would come the correcting.🤣



live by the sword old man


----------



## sptrawler (23 February 2022)

Humid said:


> live by the sword old man



*L*ive by the sword*,* old man*.*

Or just practice what you preach, you fella*. 🤪*

Also see how I managed to do that without a crude comment about you, that is something you will never be able to replicate*.*


----------



## Humid (23 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> *L*ive by the sword*,* old man*.*
> 
> Or just practice what you preach, you fella*. 🤪*



Freudian or the bottle


----------



## sptrawler (23 February 2022)

Humid said:


> Freudian or the bottle



Well done, half way there, you used a Capital to start the sentence. Now all you need is to use a full stop to finish it, then we can move on to commas. 🤣 
You can't can't keep using the bottle as an excuse, you're meant to drink from it.


----------



## Humid (24 February 2022)

Anyone?









						Can someone in government explain why we are buying tanks? - Pearls and Irritations
					

When did US generals become arbiters of Australia’s strategic policy like it’s some banana republic. The grand theatre of the second world war, featuring the stunning blitzkrieg, the decisive role of tanks on the Eastern front, and General Patton’s legendary Normandy breakout, has generated a...




					johnmenadue.com


----------



## Humid (24 February 2022)

Coalition awards $520k for NBN upgrade to single business in Barnaby Joyce’s electorate
					

Fruit and vegetable grower Costa Group’s tomato glasshouse facility in New England the sole beneficiary of planned upgrade




					www.theguardian.com
				




bloody Keating


----------



## Humid (25 February 2022)

That'll fix it


----------



## Humid (25 February 2022)

More waste


----------



## moXJO (25 February 2022)

@Humid 
Do you reckon workcover would do him over this?
Where's his welders curtain.


----------



## sptrawler (25 February 2022)

@moXJO it is strange that the helmet isn't auto self darkening, or maybe it was? 🤣

I bet his eyes still feel like they have sand in them. 👍


----------



## mullokintyre (25 February 2022)

Humid said:


> More waste
> 
> View attachment 138130



Interesting take on the Case.
Unfortunately, you did not put a source for the announcement.
According to the hated  Murdoch Press, the outcome was somewhat different.


> A four-year probe into political donations made by the Australian Workers’ Union when Bill Shorten was national secretary has found the AWU broke the law and breached its own rules on 20 occasions.
> The Registered Organisations Commission has released its final report, revealing the AWU contravened the Registered Organisations Act nine times by lodging annual loans, grants and donations statements between 2006 and 2016 “either outside of the statutory timeframe requirements or by not lodging a required statement at all”.
> 
> The report, released by Registered Organisations Commissioner Mark Bielecki this week, said in some cases the annual statements “were not lodged until years after the statutory periods had elapsed”.
> ...






> “The AWU did not follow the processes set out in its own rules, in particular Rule 57, on 20 occasions between 2006 and 2008. That is because its National Executive failed to consider or satisfy itself of the matters set out in Rule 57 of the AWU’s rules in respect of each of the 20 donations.
> 
> “While some records and the relevant Minutes of the National Executive have been produced and examined, the AWU has failed to, and admitted that it cannot, produce any evidence of express resolutions by the National Executive authorising any of the 20 relevant donations.”



Not quite the same outcome as what the AWU was suggesting, but I guess we all see these things with different eyes.

Mick


----------



## wayneL (25 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> @moXJO it is strange that the helmet isn't auto self darkening, or maybe it was? 🤣
> 
> I bet his eyes still feel like they havesand in them. 👍



Fire welding fixes this problem


----------



## mullokintyre (25 February 2022)

Jobs for the boys rears its ugly head again.
Minister for having shagging couches, Linda Reynolds, has proposed appointing ex Vic Lib premier, Dennis Napthine to chair the NDIS for the next 3 years.



> Disability Services Minister Linda Reynolds has put forward former Victorian Liberal Premier Denis Napthine to serve a three-year-term as the new chair of the National Disability Insurance Agency.
> In a letter to state disability ministers this week, seen by The Australian, Senator Reynolds recommended Dr Napthine – who has a son with autism – take over the position after acting chair James Minto ends his tenure in March.
> 
> “Following careful consideration, I propose to appoint Dr Denis Napthine AO to the role of Chair of the NDIA Board,” she writes. “Dr Napthine AO brings a wealth of knowledge and experience to the NDIA Board and has longstanding personal lived experience with disability as a carer.”



I suppose he needs the extra  money as its hard to live on a parliamentary pension these days.
Mick


----------



## wayneL (25 February 2022)

wayneL said:


> Fire welding fixes this problem



@sptrawler a bit of heat, some flux, and a hammer

No welding mask, goggles, or even safety glasses (and a fuller for the crease of course)


----------



## Humid (25 February 2022)

moXJO said:


> View attachment 138131
> 
> 
> @Humid
> ...



hahaha 
I would of put grease on the helmet headband


----------



## Humid (25 February 2022)

mullokintyre said:


> Interesting take on the Case.
> Unfortunately, you did not put a source for the announcement.
> According to the hated  Murdoch Press, the outcome was somewhat different.
> 
> ...



It was from Samantha Maiden .....who she work for?


----------



## Humid (25 February 2022)

I do remember the offices being raided and the media was there before the fuzz
Grubs the lot of them


----------



## Humid (25 February 2022)

Anyway the AWU are a $hit union


----------



## sptrawler (25 February 2022)

Humid said:


> Anyway the AWU are a $hit union



I went to the ASU HO, to ask the ASU lawyer, why we the workers had to pay the super surcharge, when our manager didn't?
I said how the hell is that fair, you get a promotion more money and you also don't have to pay a tax the workers do, he said " who said life has to be fair"?
His squeeze was sitting in the next room, an ex State MP, Ex Federal MP and now a State MP.
So don't cry me a river mate. 🤣
By the way I did have a witness, we just said, "this is a complete waste of our day" and walked out.


----------



## sptrawler (25 February 2022)

Jeez two days is a long time in politics, no sooner does Macron tell Australia to flck off and the EU is asking if Australia would be prepared to send troops.
Funny how history repeats, yet obviously some never learn.
‘This is not a European problem, this is a global problem’​Member of the EU parliament, David Lega, says Australia should commit armed forces to Europe to show solidarity with Western nations.











						French strategy keeps Australia in freeze
					

A new French strategy for the Indo-Pacific region offers a cool reception to Australia following the decision to ditch a $90 billion submarine contract.




					7news.com.au
				




_"France will pursue bilateral cooperation with Australia on a case-by-case basis, according to its national interests and those of regional partners.

"France intends to maintain close relations with the United States, an ally and major player in the Indo-Pacific, and to strengthen coordination, including on issues raised by the announcement of the AUKUS agreement."_

I guess this conflict in Europe might qualify as a national interest case for France, like the last two big ones did?


----------



## PZ99 (26 February 2022)

According to Peter Dutton our troops are needed here to staff aged care homes so I'd be telling Macron to get... staffed 

I don't remember the Europeans doing anything for us when our economy was attacked by China and still is.


----------



## moXJO (26 February 2022)

PZ99 said:


> According to Peter Dutton our troops are needed here to staff aged care homes so I'd be telling Macron to get... staffed
> 
> I don't remember the Europeans doing anything for us when our economy was attacked by China and still is.



France publicly called out to back us.   But then the whole sub thing happened.


----------



## Humid (26 February 2022)

moXJO said:


> France publicly called out to back us.   But then the whole sub thing happened.



Ships broken anyway and we're closed still
Do they need any baristas?


----------



## Humid (26 February 2022)

When will scummo don the wellies and head for a photo shoot in Qld?


----------



## moXJO (26 February 2022)

Humid said:


> Ships broken anyway and we're closed still
> Do they need any baristas?



Let's not discount our traffic controllers.


----------



## moXJO (26 February 2022)

Humid said:


> When will scummo don the wellies and head for a photo shoot in Qld?



You reckon Driza-Bone jacket, or lackey holding black umbrella?


----------



## sptrawler (26 February 2022)

Humid said:


> When will scummo don the wellies and head for a photo shoot in Qld?



I guess the good thing is, he isn't on holidays in Hawaii with his family, so he doesn't have to be called back if he is required to tell them how to deal with it. 🤣


----------



## Humid (26 February 2022)

sptrawler said:


> I guess the good thing is, he isn't on holidays in Hawaii with his family, so he doesn't have to be called back if he is required to tell them how to deal with it. 🤣



I hear Lachlan Murdoch is in town so I don't think he would be too hard to track down


----------



## sptrawler (26 February 2022)

Humid said:


> I hear Lachlan Murdoch is in town so I don't think he would be too hard to track down



That's true, there will be a conga line of politicians seeking an audience.


----------



## Knobby22 (27 February 2022)

This lovely lady is a ukalele music teacher and has posted a no joke serious video for the PM on playing April Sun in Cuba. Niceness is catching.


----------



## IFocus (27 February 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> This lovely lady is a ukalele music teacher and has posted a no joke serious video for the PM on playing April Sun in Cuba. Niceness is catching.






Actually really enjoyed that cheers Knobby


----------



## Humid (28 February 2022)

Peter Dutton’s strange move ridiculed
					

Senior government ministers have leapt to Peter Dutton’s defence after a puzzling decision was roasted online.




					www.perthnow.com.au
				




The trillion dollar debt must be biting


----------



## IFocus (28 February 2022)

Humid said:


> Peter Dutton’s strange move ridiculed
> 
> 
> Senior government ministers have leapt to Peter Dutton’s defence after a puzzling decision was roasted online.
> ...





How is the comment "why don't you just fund it from your election war chest"  guess you could add cars parks, water buy outs for mates not to mention billions in out various slush funds for Coalition electorates.


----------



## Humid (28 February 2022)

Good money being a copper by the looks of it


----------



## Humid (28 February 2022)

__





						Jane Hume - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org
				




The personal life bit is updated....


----------



## Humid (28 February 2022)

Don't worry help has arrived


----------



## wayneL (28 February 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> This lovely lady is a ukalele music teacher and has posted a no joke serious video for the PM on playing April Sun in Cuba. Niceness is catching.




...and here I am thinking he should be doing a cover of The Butcher and Fast Eddie


----------



## Knobby22 (28 February 2022)

wayneL said:


> ...and here I am thinking he should be doing a cover of The Butcher and Fast Eddie




He could get the beat tapping his feet but think he would have trouble playing the lead guitar bit on the ukulele 😏


----------



## Humid (1 March 2022)

Someone from here donated $10


----------



## moXJO (1 March 2022)

Humid said:


> Someone from here donated $10
> 
> 
> 
> ...



"Pretend to care Vote potential from here, here and here"


----------



## IFocus (7 March 2022)

This is one the general media seem to be keeping clear of no idea as to the veracity of the story but thought SP would like to blame the media

.


----------



## PZ99 (7 March 2022)

Humid said:


> Someone from here donated $10
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That pic would've genuine if the amount was over 10k in cash


----------



## sptrawler (7 March 2022)

IFocus said:


> This is one the general media seem to be keeping clear of no idea as to the veracity of the story but thought SP would like to blame the media
> 
> .




That is priceless, unbiased, balanced reporting, of an issue we all know happens and as I've said it isn't nice people that enter politics.
The issue I have, is you left wing dudes, think Labor are as pure as driven snow and offer a more moral option. 🤣

Put another way, no one is going to vote Labor, because they think they will be getting a politician with more integrity. 
They will vote Labor because they think the current Government has run its course, it is only you rusted on flag bearer guys that think Labor permeates with honesty, history soon deflates that balloon.
The only reason the coalition attract more bad press, is because they are in office twice as much as Labor, Labor struggles to stay in long enough to get the serious scams going. 🤣
The last time they had a decent run, they got their nose in the trough o.k.
Unlike many, I don't need some media muppet, to tell me that there is corruption, shady deals and immoral politicians, I'm old enough to know that. 
By the way, has that guy in the clip done any articles on Labor?


----------



## sptrawler (7 March 2022)

IFocus said:


> This is one the general media seem to be keeping clear of no idea as to the veracity of the story but thought SP would like to blame the media
> 
> .




As to the veracity of the story, well you just have to check Wiki, everyone seems to point the finger at others who post up dubious sources.
Stones and glass houses comes to mind. 🤣 


Friendlyjordies​
*Jordan Shanks-Markovina*, known online as *friendlyjordies*, is an Australian political commentator, stand-up comedian and YouTuber. 
Personal life[edit]​Shanks was born in Australia and lives in Sydney. He graduated from Newtown High School of the Performing Arts,[1] and later studied international studies at the University of New South Wales.[2] Prior to becoming a YouTuber, Shanks was a model, appearing in magazines and advertisements throughout Australia and Southeast Asia.[5][6]

YouTube career[edit]​Shanks' channel is primarily focused on comedy videos and political commentary, often in support of the Labor Party and critical of the Liberal Party.[7]


----------



## Knobby22 (7 March 2022)

sptrawler said:


> That is priceless, unbiased, balanced reporting, of an issue we all know happens and as I've said it isn't nice people that enter politics.
> The issue I have, is you left wing dudes, think Labor are as pure as driven snow and offer a more moral option. 🤣
> 
> Put another way, no one is going to vote Labor, because they think they will be getting a politician with more integrity.
> ...



At the time of the photo, Bond  had just won the America's Cup and hadn't done the corrupt stuff yet (or even  left his wife).
it all went balls up with the 87 crash and then a lot of these guys (Skase etc.) were in financial difficulty and some of them started breaking the law.
You going to tell me Hawke was corrupt? ( I voted Fraser that election, first time I voted and the landslide shocked me a bit.)


----------



## sptrawler (7 March 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> At the time of the photo, Bond  had just won the America's Cup and hadn't done the corrupt stuff yet (or even  left his wife).
> it all went balls up with the 87 crash and then a lot of these guys (Skase etc.) were in financial difficulty and some of them started breaking the law.
> You going to tell me Hawke was corrupt? ( I voted Fraser that election, first time I voted and the landslide shocked me a bit.)



I am a bit more circumspect than to call an individual corrupt, I would say a lot of politicians leverage their position to assist with their futures, many end up extremely rich while coming from poor backgrounds over a relatively short career that doesn't pay much. 🤣
It isn't party specific, it is human nature.
During the 80's there was all sorts of scams going on, Bond, Skase, Holmes a Court, spaulvin, Connell, there were a huge amount of speculative entrepreneurs that took advantage of a recently deregulated banking system, would they have greased palms? Never.


----------



## Caveman (7 March 2022)

sptrawler said:


> By the way, has that guy in the clip done any articles on Labor?



yes


----------



## sptrawler (7 March 2022)

Caveman said:


> yes



I guess the law of averages says, eventually he will find something to talk about, no matter how small the target tries to make itself.


----------



## sptrawler (7 March 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> You going to tell me Hawke was corrupt? ( I voted Fraser that election, first time I voted and the landslide shocked me a bit.)



Well there you go I voted Hawke, I thought Fraser was a nasty piece of work, just shows everyone has different perceptions.


----------



## SirRumpole (7 March 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Well there you go I voted Hawke, I thought Fraser was a nasty piece of work, just shows everyone has different perceptions.



Fraser got involved in some good work after he retired whereas Hawke just lived a good life.

Hawke I don't think was a particularly  'nice' person, but he was a good leader. Just my opinion.


----------



## sptrawler (7 March 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> Fraser got involved in some good work after he retired whereas Hawke just lived a good life.
> 
> Hawke I don't think was a particularly  'nice' person, but he was a good leader. Just my opinion.



Both statements very true IMO, I think Fraser realised what an absolute $hit he had been, when he hit an age where you reflect on your life.

Hawke was a loveable larrikin, he achieved things that no other politicians would have been able to do, but as a person I would say he put Bob first and foremost always.

There is a common denominator with both IMO.


----------



## wayneL (7 March 2022)

Perceptions and deceptions.

Gough well and truly should have been sacked

Fraser was a Manchurian candidate and should never have been voted in and should have been expelled from the Liberal Party.

Book turned out to be a good prime minister for the times.

Keating could have been good but was too much of a dick.

How it was good for his time but should have handed the reins over to Costello... Major **** up there.

Rudd - Gillard - Rudd - Gillard -Rudd- Gillard - Rudd (don't think I miscounted there, did I?) were an unmitigated disaster.

Turnbull, even worse.

Scomo, even worse again.

Did I leave anyone out?

And the absolute worst thing in my mind is that the only way from here is down.


----------



## SirRumpole (7 March 2022)

wayneL said:


> Did I leave anyone out?




Yes, Abbott.

The worst of the lot imo.


----------



## sptrawler (7 March 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> Yes, Abbott.
> 
> The worst of the lot imo.



Well he certainly did the least, all the others tried to do something, whether it was right or wrong is subjective, but there is nothing I can remember Abbott actually doing. Other than saying Australia has too many bludgers, as though anyone cares about that. 😂


----------



## PZ99 (8 March 2022)

Abbott stopped the boats and I give him full credit for that. Deaths at sea had to be stopped.

But he stuffed up the economy in his first year by going with austerity instead of growth.

Turnbull had just started to turn it around and ScoMo almost had us "back in black" prior to covid.


----------



## moXJO (8 March 2022)

I wish scomo would stfu on the world stage.


----------



## SirRumpole (8 March 2022)

moXJO said:


> I wish scomo would stfu on the world stage.



Absolutely. Do more, say less.


----------



## SirRumpole (8 March 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Well he certainly did the least, all the others tried to do something, whether it was right or wrong is subjective, but there is nothing I can remember Abbott actually doing. Other than saying Australia has too many bludgers, as though anyone cares about that. 😂



Don't forget the return of 'Knights and Dames'.


----------



## sptrawler (8 March 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> Don't forget the return of 'Knights and Dames'.



Yes that has been superseded, now everyone's a princess, in the name of equality.


----------



## IFocus (9 March 2022)

sptrawler said:


> That is priceless, unbiased, balanced reporting, of an issue we all know happens and as I've said it isn't nice people that enter politics.
> The issue I have, is you left wing dudes, think Labor are as pure as driven snow and offer a more moral option. 🤣




At the very least Federal politics needs an ICAC, what are the chances under Dutton do think that will happen?


----------



## sptrawler (9 March 2022)

IFocus said:


> At the very least Federal politics needs an ICAC, what are the chances under Dutton do think that will happen?



Well why hasn't there been one there for the last 30 years? 
Why, because the last thing politicians want, is someone checking out their cushy deals. 
Like I say I'm apolitical, I really don't care nothing changes, only the window dressing. I would have voted Labor last election if Shorten wasn't going to, as Humid put it, "bend me over a log".
I hope they do get an ICAC, but if you look at the issues ICAC in NSW and Queensland have, it will probably be just another gravy train that needs funding.


----------



## Knobby22 (10 March 2022)

NSW floods - both feds and state governments- reactive rather than proactive- come back Gladys and maybe Dutton should take over.


----------



## IFocus (10 March 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Well why hasn't there been one there for the last 30 years?




Why, until Morrison Federal Politics generally were free of corruption unlike the states which were rabid


----------



## sptrawler (10 March 2022)

IFocus said:


> Why, until Morrison Federal Politics generally were free of corruption unlike the states which were rabid



Yes it is an interesting read when you wiki it




__





						List of Australian politicians convicted of crimes - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Knobby22 (10 March 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Yes it is an interesting read when you wiki it
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, the good old days when you got charged.
Rorting travel expenses got you ja conviction as recently as 1998!
Now just pay it back and promise to not get caught again.  Stuart Robert just took over education because of Tudge losing it but look at what he tried to get away with.








						Stuart Robert 'has a go' with his $38k internet bill - Michael West
					

At the same time Stuart Robert was claiming extraordinarily high internet bills from taxpayers for his Gold Coast home, he was saying: "There is a small segment of the community who still think it is okay to cheat the system.”




					www.michaelwest.com.au
				




And if you click the second link you can see for instance he and his wife both got $50K Rolex watches from the Chinese Government. Nothing sticks.








						Stuart Robert's litany of transgressions
					

Stuart Robert still owes money to Australian taxpayers as well as an apology and an explanation as to why he should still hold office.




					independentaustralia.net
				




Like this bit
2017​
Robert’s elderly father said he was unaware his son had made him a company director and had used his elderly parents’ home address as the company’s "principal place of business". The private company in question had been winning Government contracts.
I think we need ICAC. I mean this is just what he got caught doing!!!


----------



## wayneL (10 March 2022)

IFocus said:


> At the very least Federal politics needs an ICAC, what are the chances under Dutton do think that will happen?



Dutton will never be prime minister







Knobby22 said:


> Yes, the good old days when you got charged.
> Rorting travel expenses got you ja conviction as recently as 1998!
> Now just pay it back and promise to not get caught again.  Stuart Robert just took over education because of Tudge losing it but look at what he tried to get away with.
> 
> ...



Australia *was the least corrupt nation on Earth just a few short decades ago.

We are certainly not the most corrupt now, by a long way, but we are climbing the ladder quickly... to the point that the corrupt are not even trying to hide it.


----------



## IFocus (10 March 2022)

The federal government has:

- Cut $14 million from the national audit office, after that office discovered substantial improprieties and wasteful spending (such as the sports rorts, and paying 10 times too much for land for the new Sydney airport). source

- Voted against a binding code of conduct designed to ensure politicians act with integrity.

- Blocked a research-backed design change to increase the effectiveness of beverage warnings about drinking during pregnancy (recommended by an independent body) after meeting with lobbyists from alcohol companies who have donated over $300,000 to the Coalition.

- Gave $345,000 to News Corp to build a spelling bee website, discarding any pretense of propriety or fairness by skipping the usual parliamentary checks and tender process, instead just choosing to hand the excessive amount of cash to a company whose industry is neither website building nor education.

- Hid a record-breaking number of expenses from the public in an annual budget, including cash handed to a private rail project, maintaining an abandoned oil rig, and legal action relating to military bases which leaked toxic chemicals.

- Loosened political donation laws.

- Committed a crime by ignoring a ruling of the Administrative Appeals Tribunal.

- Appointed a failed Liberal candidate to the SBS board instead of any of the ones recommended by the independent nominations panel.

- Prevented parliament from debating whether to set up a National Integrity Commission.

- Set up the COVID-19 National Coordination Committee with no terms of reference, no register of conflicts of interest, and then stacked it with gas company executives who unsurprisingly ended up recommending irrationally pro-gas policies. 690 documents about potential conflicts of interests were deliberately kept hidden.

- Blocked parliament from debating significant environmental protection repeals, rushing through the legislation without allowing anyone to discuss it first.

- Lied by claiming they appointed a Liberal party staffer to a job paying half a million dollars per year through an “open merit-driven, competitive process”. It was actually a limited tender not open to all, exempt from procurement rules which guarantee fairness and impartiality.

- Tried to get parliament to vote on new legislation without giving copies of the bill to the people voting on it, and used unprecedented methods to prevent any politician to speak against it.

- Paid tens of thousands of dollars to a company which was known to be corrupt, through a tender that was not opened up to all competitors.

- Illegally forged a document to publicly criticise a political opponent.

- Cancelled The Rule of Law and then preventing journalists from reporting on the case against a whistleblower who leaked truthful information in the public interest about senior politicians and law enforcement officials who flagrantly violated serious international laws. The court case is held in secret. The whistleblower’s name is illegal to publish. The witness and lawyers’ residences were raided, and the evidence against the government was confiscated.

- Extended exemptions for political donation transparency, which are 25 years old and were only supposed to be temporary.

- Paid $39 million to a naval boat manufacturer when not required to because the company failed to fulfill the relevant contract clauses, and they coincidentally donated to the Liberal party.

- Illegally failed to respond to freedom of information (FOI) requests within the statutory 30 day deadline in 92.5% of cases.

- Bought water rights for 50 times more than many valuations, and double the price of the seller’s valuation.

- Lied by claiming that Kevin Rudd had travelled overseas and back during COVID while many Australians are still stranded overseas, when Mr Rudd had actually never left Queensland.

- Refused to release a report into COVID policy communication strategies, which cost over $500,000.

- Introduced a mandatory code of conduct to force companies like Google to pay hundreds of millions of dollars to large private news companies (but not ABC news nor independent news, nor the Chaser). Google currently drives over 3 billion clicks per year to Australian news companies. Therefore this is like a local plumber demanding that the Yellow Pages pay the plumber for the act of directing plumber-seeking customers to the plumber. This will also undermine the fundamental principles of the web itself, according to its inventor. The laws are written based on the incorrect assumption that news makes up 10% of Google searches when it’s only 1%. source source source source source source
Introduced red tape and distorted the free market by forcing Google to give special insider knowledge of proprietary search algorithm changes to large news companies but not small, independent journalists. It includes ambiguously written clauses about giving news companies access to Google users’ private data.

- Introduced protections for company executives who trade while insolvent during the pandemic. This is only for cases where the debts are incurred “the ordinary course of business”. Those who try to adapt to the challenging circumstances will not be exempt. In this way the government is incentivising executives to not adapt to the unique circumstances.

- Refused to release the minutes from an important meeting of the Australian Health Protection Principal Committee giving COVID advice to the Prime Minister.

- Created the ABCC ostensibly for reducing corruption, but the ABCC boss himself violated rules and endangered people by ignoring COVID flight restrictions, travelling across the country to interview workers about a rally that happened 8 months prior.

- Refused to release a multilateral trade agreement with China, which involves spending government money on infrastructure in other countries. The lack of transparency exacerbates existing concerns about burdening these other developing nations with unsustainable debt.

- Deleted records of a $165,000 political donation from a political consultancy with stakeholders who stand to benefit from the government’s $1 billion visa privatization plan, and refused requests for further explanation.

- Kept secret a government-funded report that showed that less than 1 in 3 Australians trust our public service sector. The justification was that the government believed that the report which they wrote would mislead and confuse people.

- Lied by claiming that all grants issued under the controversial $100M sports grant program were eligible for funding, when only 57% were.

- Failed to declare a property worth $1M in a minister’s declaration of interests.

- Failed to declare 2 properties worth more than $1M in another minister’s declaration of interests.

- Approved a $36,000 grant to a shooting club without declaring that the approving minister was a member of that club. source
Allocated sports grant funding based on which candidate projects were in marginal seats, rather than which were the most worthy. Then refused to release legal advice about whether such pork barrelling is illegal, and destroyed evidence about the funding choices. source source source source source
Merged the Australian Federal Police into the Home Affairs department, allowing the minister to exert political influence on investigations. source
Ignored a Royal Commission report which found the government’s Murray-Darling Basin Plan is illegal, whilst refusing to publish their own report which they claim provides a valid rebuttal. source

Abandoned standard tender processes when awarding a $423 million contract to a company with $50k in funds, little experience, no phone number, no mail address, housed in a shack. source source

Refused to publish a report used to justify a $53 million contract to outsource Centrelink call handling. source source

Declared that they will violate a new law, because they don’t like it. source source

Spent $87,000 fighting against a Freedom of Information request about back-room deals, and then lied about the cost. source

Drastically increased the amount of government money spent without a proper tender process, up to $34 billion per month. source

Handed out $17.1M to private TV stations for a grant they didn’t ask for, without offering the money to the public broadcaster. source

Refused a Senate Order to release details about expensive contracts for security, health and infrastructure in their detention camps in PNG. source

Excused the conflict of interest arising when the head of the My Health Record (appointed by the government) privately received money for consultations about the My Health Record. source

Spent 2 years trying to hide documents from Freedom of Information requests, about a serious breach of top secret documents, and mishandling of those documents by a minister. source

Hid a report by the Governor General showing that the government paid twice as much as necessary for new combat vehicles, because such publicity would be bad for the private manufacturer’s future profitability. The company is not even Australian. source source

Lied about the Immigration Minister having no personal connection to someone who benefited from the direct intervention by the Immigration Minister in a visa case. source source source

Spent an undisclosed amount of public money on legal defence for a minister who broken the law for political gain. source

Broke an election promise by cutting $84 million from the ABC (again). source

Exempted a facial recognition system storing data of innocent citizens from standard procurement policy disclosure rules. The excuse is a reliance on security through obscurity rather than actual security. Accuracy figures are also not published. source source source

Increased the jail time for journalists who report on whistleblower’s truthful allegations by a factor of 10. source source

Refused to publish the percentage of calls to the veterans’ suicide help line which go unanswered, because that want negatively impact the brand of the private call centre operator. source

Prohibited public servants from liking social media posts critical of the government, even if anonymous. source

Failed to declare multiple $1600 Foxtel subscriptions gifted to ministers by a lobby group. source

Gave $30 million to Foxtel to boost “under represented sports”, and was unable to explain why free-to-air channels didn’t get the money, because the decision was made without any emails, letter, or supporting documentation. source source

Paid a minister $273 per night to stay in his own home. source

Prevented university newspapers from attending the release of multiple annual budgets like all other newspapers. These particular budgets contained multiple changes which negatively impact university students. source source

Refused to release the results for the trial of a national health register. source

Spent over $3,500 to send a minister to watch the AFL with his wife. source

Spent over $2,700 on a trip to watch polo. source

Spent $10,000 per day to send a single minister to the USA. source

Broke a promise to scrap free lifetime travel for former ministers. The excuse is that the government is to busy to pass legislation through parliament, despite that being the job of the government and of parliament. source

Falsely advertised the closure of the Child Dental Benefits Schedule, despite Parliament rejecting the closure attempt. source

Refused to publish the cost benefit analysis on the agriculture minister’s decision to move a federal agency from Canberra to his own electorate. source

Personally appointed George Brandis’ son’s lawyer to a $370,000 job, without making a conflict of interest declaration. source source

Tried to privatise the database of ASIC (the corporate watchdog). Under private hands the cost journalists must pay to obtain information about potentially corrupt companies would increase. source

Spent over $140,000 for 5 ministers to travel to a country we have no trade or diplomatic ties with, visiting tourist sites and dining in 5 star restaurants. source

Refused to release 5 year old taxi receipts to assist in a fraud case, on the grounds that terrorists could use travel information from 5 years ago to help plan an attack against the minister in question. source

Spent $10,000 to fly the family of 2 ministers to a tropical island for a weekend holiday. source

Voted against a motion asking the Housing Affordability Inquiry to update the senate on how they are progressing with the recommendations the government supported. source

Rejected an inquiry which recommended that citizens accused of tax fraud be treated as innocent until proven guilty. source

Spent $30,000 on a private jet to fly one minister and their partner from Perth to Canberra (instead of catching a normal plane) because a non-business event ran overtime. This is despite the alleged budget emergency. source

Voted against increasing transparency about how much tax large corporations pay. source

Violated parliamentary anti-corruption rules by not declaring a substantial loan for almost 2 years. source

Broke an election promise to conduct and publish a cost benefit analysis for all infrastructure projects over $100 million. source

Spent over $20,000 in a legal fight in order to hide modelling for the impact of university fee deregulation. source source

Spent thousands of government dollars on taxi rides to the Opera in just 8 days.
The government claims that the expenditure is reasonable because the minister didn’t pay for the tickets either. source

Spent thousands of government dollars on limousine rides, and fudged the declaration paperwork to say they were taxi rides. source

Spent $10,000 trying to chase down someone who leaked information to the media about how the Prime Minister deliberately and knowingly used false information to justify opposition to a defence force pay rise. source

Spent $27,000 on travel expenses for politicians to attend free sports events. source

Voted against a royal commission into corruption and misconduct in the financial service industry, following a series of scandals. source

Reaped $1000 per month of government money to pay for Joe Hockey to stay in his wife’s house. source

Proposed an exemption so that Australia’s richest companies no longer have to publish basic information about how much tax they are paying. source

Accidentally leaked the personal details of 31 world leaders, and chose not to notify them. They still claim your metadata will be safe though. source

Breached the criminal code of conduct by offering the independently appointed Human Rights Commissioner a new job if she resigned. source

Flew across the country on a taxpayer funded private jet to attend the private birthday party of a millionaire who has made large donations to the Liberal party. source

Refused to publish cost estimates for the data-retention policy which were provided by the industry. source

Voted to keep the text of the China Free Trade deal secret from the public. source

Abolished the $10,000 limit on political donations. source

Broke the law by missing the deadline for publishing the Intergenerational Report, as stipulated by the Charter of Budget Honesty Act. source

Spent $10,000 trying to identify a whistleblower who told the media that the Prime Minister knowingly mislead the public using information he knew was incorrect. source

Started an online petition to stop job losses at the ABC, just 36 hours after cutting ABC funding by 5% (which broke an election promise). source

Contracted out the managing of the Do Not Call Register to a marketing company. source

Secretly and retrospectively changed the official record of what was said in parliament. source

Broke an election promise by cutting ABC funding again ($120 million this time). source source

Spent $900,000 in just 2 months on private jet flights for ministers. source
Forced all community TV stations off the air, claiming that moving online will be better for stations and viewers. Meanwhile they continue to fervently defend foreign corporate stations like HBO, who stubbornly refuse to make content accessible online. source

Introduced new laws which mean Edward Snowden type leaks are punishable by up to 10 years of prison. No exemptions are made for anti-corruption leaks. If journalists report on anyone (including innocent bystanders) being killed accidentally or deliberately by security personnel, they will be jailed for up to 10 years. source source source source

Spent $50,000 on upgrades of curtains and upholstery for the Prime Minister’s office. source

Moved to abolish the role of freedom of information commissioner, abolish the Office of the Australian Information Commissioner and charge $800 for reviews of Freedom of Information Request denials. source

Refused to publish any submissions it received for or against the proposed changes to the Racial Discrimination Act, even though the government says the changes are to protect free speech. They refused to state what proportion of submissions supported the changes. The government defended this secrecy by claiming that all submissions were made with the expectation of confidentiality. This is false. The Senate Inquiry Submission Guidelines state that to make a Senate Inquiry Submission confidential, you must explicitly justify a request for confidentiality, and that such requests are generally denied. source source
Lied about the Australian Federal Police advising Tony Abbott not to visit Deakin University for safety reasons. source

Gave the Minister for Infrastructure the power to silence Infrastructure Australia (an independent body) without justification. (See section 5A.2 of the link.) source

Deliberately hid the cost of the $4.45 million renovations on The Lodge. source

Spent $50,000 on one dinner for 60 G20 guests, including food specially flown to Washington from all over Australia. source

Voted against the creation of a federal anti-corruption watchdog. source

Cut $38 million from Australian television and film funding. source

Broke an election promise by cutting $40 million from the SBS and ABC. source source source

Broke an election promise to not cut ABC funding, by cutting all funding to the Australia Network (part of the ABC). source source source

Claimed a 2.5% reduction in funding every year for the ABC is not a funding cut. source

Increased the fee for lodging Freedom of Information requests. source

Paid a public relations company $97,000 for 3 weeks of work to help improve the Education Department’s image, then refused to release the report that came of it. source

Proposed the scrapping of regulation which prevents media monopolies and duopolies. source

Spent over $15,000 on a custom made bookcase to replace a $7,000 custom bookcase which holds $13,000 worth of taxpayer funded books and magazines in senator Brandis’ office. source

Spent $22,000 taxpayer dollars buying new cutlery and crockery for the ministerial wing of parliament. source

Chose not to mention a $882 million payout to News Corp. when outlining a $16.8 billion budget black hole. The payout was the single biggest item in the black hole. source source

Denied any wrongdoing after a government aid married to the head of a junk food lobby pulled down a government website providing simplified nutritional information within hours of its launch. source

Violated Youtube’s policies regarding deceptive content, resulting in the suspension of Abbott’s whole channel. source

Criticised the ABC because they aren’t biased towards the Government. source

Spent over $120,000 on Kirribilli House, including $13,000 on an imported luxury rug, paid for by the taxpayer. source

Tried to silence the media to stop them criticising the upcoming private jet deal for politicians. source

Changed the ministerial code of conduct so ministers no longer have to sell shares which create a conflict of interest. source

Made Orwellian threats about cutting ABC funding because the government didn’t like one of their stories, and because their quality of journalism is too high, thereby creating competition which threatens the corporate newspaper duopoly (who are now floundering because they didn’t see the internet coming). source


----------



## wayneL (10 March 2022)

Source @IFocus ?


----------



## sptrawler (11 March 2022)

wayneL said:


> Source @IFocus ?



But is probably the reason they will be thrown out this election, having said that Scomo has become the blame for anything and everything that happens in Australia, so when he is flipped the media slate is wiped clean and the process can start all over again.
Wash, rinse, repeat, next please. 🤣
The only good thing to come out of this term of office, is the media and opposition have set a very high bar for themselves, I hope they can clear it. 
The media has lost a lot of credibility, so if they don't hold the next Government to the same scrutiny, they will lose what remaining credibility they have.
The opposition have critisised the handouts to recipients, so it will be very interesting how they try to reign in the welfare budget that is blowing out, interesting times at the driver change coming up. IMO
By the way @IFocus , that was a very anal list which shows a very biased and anal personality, you failed to mention the $140,000,000,000 spent on welfare payments during covid, also a permanent increase in the dole,  $2b on bushfire relief that is just off the top of my head.

But as I've said before it is time for a change of Government, hopefully labor can do a better fist of it, than they did last time.


----------



## rederob (11 March 2022)

IFocus said:


> The federal government has:
> 
> - Cut $14 million from the national audit office, after that office discovered substantial improprieties and wasteful spending (such as the sports rorts, and paying 10 times too much for land for the new Sydney airport). source
> 
> ...



That's not a list!
This is a *LIST*


----------



## sptrawler (11 March 2022)

rederob said:


> That's not a list!
> This is a *LIST*



What is absolutely amazing is that no matter how bad the coalition is and no matter how much crap the media pour on them for the last 10 years, they still were voted in.
That really does highlight how bad the opposition has been, doesnt it.
I'll write a list of what Labor have done in the the same period Rob.




There you go, that wasn't hard. 
I guess if we want to compare apples with apples, Morrison was criticized for the $2b bushfire relief fund, it should have probably been compared to Rudd's $10m relief fund for the black Saturday bushfires in 2009.
I guess that is the thing, not everyone has short memories.


----------



## PZ99 (11 March 2022)

Speaking of short memories who else is seeing déjà vu where company directors are allowed to mislead the market or trade whilst insolent ? These deregulations from Josh Frydenberg were supposed to be temporary during the worst of covid but guess what? They are still there and setting the scene for another localised GFC which of course will be the fault of the Labor Party if they in Govt at the time 

Oh yeah.... the unsuccessful attempt to remove the BOOT test was also supposed to be "temporary"

It's this sort of crap that stops me from voting Liberal... continually attacking safety nets that were put there to stabilise the economy and stop workers going broke by footing the bill every time the system fails.


----------



## SirRumpole (11 March 2022)

sptrawler said:


> I'll write a list of what Labor have done in the the same period Rob.




They are in opposition, they can't actually DO anything.


----------



## sptrawler (11 March 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> They are in opposition, they can't actually DO anything.



Yes as I said earlier, it is pretty sad indictment of the Party, when they can't get in office against such poor performers,
Put another way, how bad does the coalition have to be, before people will dare to put Labor in? that tells you they have some serious underlying issues with the public's perception or trust of them, their abilities or their agendas IMO.


----------



## SirRumpole (11 March 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Yes as I said earlier, it is pretty sad indictment of the Party, when they can't get in office against such poor performers,
> Put another way, how bad does the coalition have to be, before people will dare to put Labor in? that tells you they have some serious underlying issues with the public's perception or trust of them, their abilities or their agendas IMO.




True to a certain extent.

Shorten took Labor to the left, Albo is bringing it back to the centre talking more about jobs instead of equality and racism that the Left like rambling on about.

That gives him more of a chance, but he's not exactly a sparling personality if that's what people want.

He comes across as a decent guy who cares, maybe that will get them through.


----------



## sptrawler (11 March 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> True to a certain extent.
> 
> Shorten took Labor to the left, Albo is bringing it back to the centre talking more about jobs instead of equality and racism that the Left like rambling on about.
> 
> ...



Spot on, Labor needs to ask what are they doing wrong, when the only way they can get in, is by saying nothing and hoping the coalition falls over, that should tell them they have some underlying issues that isn't resonating with mainstream Australia.
There is no point just criticising your opponent when they keep beating you, you have to look at what you are doing wrong.
It is like playing footy and knowing the only way your going to win, is if the other team is going to really have an off day and play like $hit, that tells you you need to improve your game plan or replace some of your players IMO.
Albo was a great choice, but it shows how out of touch labor are with their grass roots, when it took them so long to promote him, it was done with great reluctance. It tells you something. I think some of the Labor front line needs replacing, they have too much history and are carrying too much baggage. 
It will be interesting to see how they perform, when they are in office.


----------



## wayneL (11 March 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> True to a certain extent.
> 
> Shorten took Labor to the left, Albo is bringing it back to the centre talking more about jobs instead of equality and racism that the Left like rambling on about.
> 
> ...





sptrawler said:


> Spot on, Labor needs to ask what are they doing wrong, when the only way they can get in, is by saying nothing and hoping the coalition falls over, that should tell them they have some underlying issues that isn't resonating with mainstream Australia.
> There is no point just criticising your opponent when they keep beating you, you have to look at what you are doing wrong.
> It is like playing footy and knowing the only way your going to win, is if the other team is going to really have an off day and play like $hit, that tells you you need to improve your game plan or replace some of your players IMO.
> Albo was a great choice, but it shows how out of touch labor are with their grass roots, when it took them so long to promote him, it was done with great reluctance. It tells you something.



Exactly the same situation in the UK. The further left they go the more they can't win. The '21 Labour conference was an absolute parody of itself

Governments in Australia are won from the centre.

I just hope we get a functional liberty loving crossbench to "keep the bastards honest".


----------



## macca (11 March 2022)

A conversation among my wife and her lady friends, one is a Labor rusty who brought up the election

Who are we going to vote for they ask?

Is Bill Shorten still there ? Yes, 

I am voting Liberal then

and that is how they lost the last one IMO


----------



## mullokintyre (11 March 2022)

macca said:


> A conversation among my wife and her lady friends, one is a Labor rusty who brought up the election
> 
> Who are we going to vote for they ask?
> 
> ...



Says as much about the ignorance of many Australians as to the political structure here in OZ than anything else.


----------



## macca (11 March 2022)

mullokintyre said:


> Says as much about the ignorance of many Australians as to the political structure here in OZ than anything else.




Definitely agree but the masses are too busy living life to get involved in discussions like we do here on ASF.

I stay well away from current affairs when socialising, in today's world even having an opinion is deemed to be aggressive unless among good friends.


----------



## IFocus (11 March 2022)

wayneL said:


> Source @IFocus ?





Got it from else where where the sources didn't carry over but pretty much all have been MSN, Robs list of course blows away mine like I said else where all governments run there course and these mugs have over stayed.

Evidence of that is Morrison declaring a national emergency 10 days after the emergency for a photo opt.


----------



## wayneL (11 March 2022)

IFocus said:


> Got it from else where where the sources didn't carry over but pretty much all have been MSN, Robs list of course blows away mine like I said else where all governments run there course and these mugs have over stayed.
> 
> Evidence of that is Morrison declaring a national emergency 10 days after the emergency for a photo opt.




You will get no arguement from me as to the egregiousness of this particular government. As I've indicated several times here, it is unlikely they will get my vote ever again.

However I think the source of that collation is important so that we can make a value judgement on the intentions of the author(s)

Additionally, it should be balanced heart by an equally comprehensive list of the actions of previous governments, whichever stripe for happen to be, in order to make a comparison of the egregiousness of each.

Otherwise it just becomes another example of leftist propaganda, even if there is an element of truth in it.


----------



## IFocus (11 March 2022)

Bloke Who Can't Roll-Out Flood Recovery Carrying On Like He Can Protect Us From Global Superpower
					

WENDELL HUSSEY | Cadet | CONTACT Despite being unable to move more than 500 troops a few hundred kilometres, Scott Morrison has continued carrying on like nobody else but he can save us from the wrath of China. Fronting the webcam while chucking a sickie, the Prime Minister has warned that we...




					www.betootaadvocate.com


----------



## moXJO (14 March 2022)

It's got to be on purpose


----------



## IFocus (15 March 2022)

moXJO said:


> It's got to be on purpose





Surely had to be a bait for women's movements?


----------



## mullokintyre (15 March 2022)

moXJO said:


> It's got to be on purpose





SHY has such an important contribution to the debate.
Mick


----------



## rederob (15 March 2022)

moXJO said:


> It's got to be on purpose




Either a balls-up or they win the booby prize.
Did they want a bet each way?


----------



## PZ99 (15 March 2022)

mullokintyre said:


> SHY has such an important contribution to the debate.
> Mick




She's a hypocrite to boot. Could you imagine if it went the other way ?

_<feel free to insert an almost infinite number of euphemisms available for the above statement> _


----------



## moXJO (15 March 2022)

PZ99 said:


> She's a hypocrite to boot. Could you imagine if it went the other way ?
> 
> _<feel free to insert an almost infinite number of euphemisms available for the above statement> _



I hope putin bombs parliament. It's just a dumpster fire at this stage anyway.


----------



## wayneL (15 March 2022)

mullokintyre said:


> SHY has such an important contribution to the debate.
> Mick




Pretty puerile stuff, very unbecoming of a member of parliament, (and the Greens have form on petty childish crap like this).

...but perhaps the only occasion where I may secretly agree with her... and ferchrissake never tell anybody I said that


----------



## sptrawler (15 March 2022)

PZ99 said:


> She's a hypocrite to boot. Could you imagine if it went the other way ?
> 
> _<feel free to insert an almost infinite number of euphemisms available for the above statement> _



Yes it certainly would have been interesting if Morrison had put a picture like that on here head, unbelievable the double standards in Australia today.
She should be ashamed of herself really and the media should take it up, all they are doing is showing that it is o.k to abuse white male hetrasexual Christians, especially if they are in politics. 🤣


----------



## IFocus (15 March 2022)

Over the years Hanson-Young has been trolled more than all the rest put together and its been really nasty, still wasn't a great look from her if people want to start moralising.


----------



## wayneL (15 March 2022)

IFocus said:


> Over the years Hanson-Young has been trolled more than all the rest put together and its been really nasty, still wasn't a great look from her if people want to start moralising.



And in one fell swoop she has legitimised all that trolling


----------



## moXJO (16 March 2022)

mullokintyre said:


> SHY has such an important contribution to the debate.
> Mick




Anyone else more distracted by scomos facial expression, then the giant Wang on his forehead?


----------



## wayneL (16 March 2022)

moXJO said:


> Anyone else more distracted by scomos facial expression, then the giant Wang on his forehead?



It kinda looks like he copped a giant Wang elsewhere


----------



## PZ99 (16 March 2022)

moXJO said:


> Anyone else more distracted by scomos facial expression, then the giant Wang on his forehead?



Looks like the early 70's as Wang computer employee with BASIC knowledge of 5 inch floppies


----------



## IFocus (16 March 2022)

wayneL said:


> And in one fell swoop she has legitimised all that trolling




Trolls that make women feel unsafe....really?


----------



## wayneL (16 March 2022)

IFocus said:


> ...unsafe...



LMAO.

Yet another word that has been prostituted for a nefarious anti-cultural agenda. What next? A parliamentary safe space for intellectual an emotional weaklings? 

The truth is, SHY is a monumental hypocrite and full of grade A, USDA approved bullshyte.

I don't begrudge her having a sledge, so long the she grows the **** up and has the cajones befitting of an Australian parliamentarian, just like she expects Scotty to.


----------



## moXJO (16 March 2022)

PZ99 said:


> Looks like the early 70's as Wang computer employee with BASIC knowledge of 5 inch floppies



That's exactly the look.


----------



## Smurf1976 (16 March 2022)

macca said:


> I stay well away from current affairs when socialising, in today's world even having an opinion is deemed to be aggressive unless among good friends.




One thing that really has changed for the worse is the loss of society's ability to calmly and objectively discuss the merits or otherwise of any particular idea. Intellectual debate has sadly given way to outright tribalism.

Personally there's a couple of friends I wouldn't hesitate to have such a discussion with on any subject but in general I avoid politics completely as you say.

Incidentally, of the two who I would discuss it with both are members of a political party. Logically I'd have thought they'd be the most tribal but it seems the reverse is true, they're far more objective than most people seem to be these days.


----------



## macca (16 March 2022)

Smurf1976 said:


> One thing that really has changed for the worse is the loss of society's ability to calmly and objectively discuss the merits or otherwise of any particular idea. Intellectual debate has sadly given way to outright tribalism.
> 
> Personally there's a couple of friends I wouldn't hesitate to have such a discussion with on any subject but in general I avoid politics completely as you say.
> 
> Incidentally, of the two who I would discuss it with both are members of a political party. Logically I'd have thought they'd be the most tribal but it seems the reverse is true, they're far more objective than most people seem to be these days.




unfortunately, some family members are among the most biased.

One would not even read an article in the Daily Telegraph saying that they would not waste their time.

I read News, ABC, SMH, Nine and Seven news and apparently that means that I am a rabid right winger even though 3 from 5 are either strongly left or left leaning.

Very hard to discuss current affairs when people won't actually discuss, only lecture


----------



## wayneL (16 March 2022)

macca said:


> unfortunately, some family members are among the most biased.
> 
> One would not even read an article in the Daily Telegraph saying that they would not waste their time.
> 
> ...



SIL is the fly in the ointment in our family, and a world-class gaslighter.

EG I have made our family aware of the WEF website, but she has somehow convinced most that it's some sort of ring in website and a conspiracy theory.

Likewise the first data dump from pfizer is some nefarious scheme from some other third party.

...and don't mention the ****ing war.


----------



## IFocus (16 March 2022)

wayneL said:


> LMAO.
> 
> Yet another word that has been prostituted for a nefarious anti-cultural agenda. What next? A parliamentary safe space for intellectual an emotional weaklings?
> 
> ...




Ahh a lot to unpack there I wont be touching it carry on.


----------



## SirRumpole (17 March 2022)

Targetted response ?









						'I'm outraged': Liberal upper house MP to quit over federal flood funding
					

Only the flood-affected shires that fall in the National Party-held seat of Page have so far received additional disaster payments, something NSW Liberal MLC Catherine Cusack says she "can't defend".




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## sptrawler (17 March 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> Targetted response ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Obviously she wanted it in her electorate. Lol
Get on the end of the queue sweetheart. Lol
For Christ sake come to W.A, we don't have floods, it's a bit hot in summer but there is plenty of work.
The Eastern States it's either a flood or a fire and you want W.A taxpayers to sort it.


----------



## macca (17 March 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Obviously she wanted it in her electorate. Lol
> Get on the end of the queue sweetheart. Lol
> For Christ sake come to W.A, we don't have floods, it's a bit hot in summer but there is plenty of work.
> The Eastern States it's either a flood or a fire and you want W.A taxpayers to sort it.



Plenty been trying lately but you mob won't let them in


----------



## Knobby22 (20 March 2022)

Scott Morrison has completely forgotten what it means to be a Conservative Government.

Pundits say he is going to splash the cash soon giving the punters voters cash in a two off payment trying to buy the votes. The first one is to sweeten you up before the election, the second as a reward.

Debt  what's that?
Will the budget have financial and taxation reform, long term planning, Vision?
Surprise me guys.


----------



## greggles (2 April 2022)

$5.5 billion wasted on non-existent submarines.









						Cancelled French submarine program could cost taxpayers more than $5 billion
					

Australia's torpedoed French submarine program could eventually cost taxpayers up to $5.5 billion, despite the contract being torn up well before construction was to begin




					www.abc.net.au
				




Imagine all the good that could have been done with that money in health, education or infrastructure.

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away... the Liberal Party was the party of fiscal discipline. What a joke.


----------



## sptrawler (2 April 2022)

greggles said:


> $5.5 billion wasted on non-existent submarines.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Absolutely, it was a joke to order them in the first place IMO, moronic decision. 
As you say any fiscal discipline has been thrown out the window, the amount of money thrown around in the last couple of years, is beyond belief.


----------



## Smurf1976 (3 April 2022)

sptrawler said:


> For Christ sake come to W.A



I hear that your state government is now advertising the virtues of the state on radio interstate.


----------



## PZ99 (3 April 2022)

Gotta admit for WA it would be nice having the ASX open at 7am and close at 1pm


----------



## sptrawler (3 April 2022)

PZ99 said:


> Gotta admit for WA it would be nice having the ASX open at 7am and close at 1pm



I find that great, get up put the kettle on, fire up the computer, check @bigdog overnight report, then it's comsec.


----------



## sptrawler (3 April 2022)

There seems to be a push to replace Scomo with Frydenberg, clever move IMO, nullifies all the anti christian vilification.
Difficult for the media to attack a minority religion, it's probably a shame he isn't coloured and gay, that would really throw them IMO. 
I certainly hope that Scomo takes the coalition to the next election, the last thing they need, is to win it. 😂 



			https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/josh-frydenberg-responds-to-leadership-questions-in-event-of-hung-parliament/news-story/01d2e62a539711c653e5f78de9f011ad
		






__





						Treasurer Josh Frydenberg emerges as preferred Liberal Leader ahead of Scott Morrison & Peter Dutton - Roy Morgan Research
					






					www.roymorgan.com
				












						Josh Frydenberg: the Liberal Party's next prime minister?
					

The Treasurer has emerged from the Liberal leadership convulsions not only unscathed, but a mere heartbeat from the prime ministership.




					www.smh.com.au


----------



## PZ99 (3 April 2022)

It would need to be a 70% majority vote to change the PM plus they would need to avoid a possible voter revolt and then ScoMo would need to recontest his seat to save it... none of which are likely


----------



## Humid (3 April 2022)

sptrawler said:


> There seems to be a push to replace Scomo with Frydenberg, clever move IMO, nullifies all the anti christian vilification.
> Difficult for the media to attack a minority religion, it's probably a shame he isn't coloured and gay, that would really throw them IMO.
> I certainly hope that Scomo takes the coalition to the next election, the last thing they need, is to win it. 😂
> 
> ...



And you and your mates on here put them in power.....you know who you are lol


----------



## sptrawler (3 April 2022)

PZ99 said:


> It would need to be a 70% majority vote to change the PM plus they would need to avoid a possible voter revolt and then ScoMo would need to recontest his seat to save it... none of which are likely



It won't happen, the media is just trying to change the rhetoric, just in case the anti Scomo rhetoric hasn't worked. 
Last time they copped a lot of backlash from the punters, this time they have run a long game of blaming Morrison for everything, but they were burnt last time.
So they now want to put up a possible alternative to reduce the odds.
Really who cares, like I said earlier the next government has to make some hard decisions, the last time Labor were in the retirement age went up to 67 years old .
Macron who we are pissing on ourselves over, is copping crap for increasing the retirement age to 65, we are a weird lot IMO.








						'Risky but it's a necessity': Macron wants to push back France's retirement age to 65
					

France's finance minister said pushing back the retirement age from 62 to 65 was the "best way of protecting our social model."




					www.cnbc.com


----------



## sptrawler (3 April 2022)

Humid said:


> And you and your mates on here put them in power.....you know who you are lol



How much money did you say you were on? Didn't this mob drop your tax rate?
Nothing like being a muppet eh. 
Jeez there is no wonder Australia is going down the S bend.


----------



## Humid (3 April 2022)

sptrawler said:


> How much money did you say you were on? Didn't this mob drop your tax rate?
> Nothing like being a muppet eh.
> Jeez there is no wonder Australia is going down the S bend.



No it's gone down the s bend from your choices old timer....9 years of your government
Own it


----------



## sptrawler (3 April 2022)

Humid said:


> No it's gone down the s bend from your choices old timer....9 years of your government
> Own it



Own what? The all ords at record highs?, the lowest unemployment rates in years? you on record wages? everyone on welfare getting a doubling of payments during the covid issue? businesses getting support to help keep people on wages while they were closed down?
What are you actually talking about really.
Try to engage your miniscule brain, for a change. 😂
What do people have to own? I wasn't the only one that didn't vote for silly Billy, is he you brother in law or something? 
The reason Labor need to be voted in is, because some serious budget cuts have to be enacted and the coalition wouldn't be able to get them through.
Jeez you really need to live a bit longer, to get the hang of this.


----------



## Humid (4 April 2022)

Was earning more on Barrow in 2013
Unemployment = no 457s and foreign uni students
corruption
rorts
debt at all time high
jobkeeper
subs
robodebt 
own it pops


----------



## Humid (4 April 2022)

From Ray Martin

“I have interviewed every Prime Minister since Bob Menzies and I think this is the most incompetent government we’ve had. It’s time,” he said of the government under Scott Morrison.


----------



## mullokintyre (4 April 2022)

Humid said:


> From Ray Martin
> 
> “I have interviewed every Prime Minister since Bob Menzies and I think this is the most incompetent government we’ve had. It’s time,” he said of the government under Scott Morrison.



Hmm, you take your political learnings from Ray Martin??
Mick


----------



## Humid (4 April 2022)

mullokintyre said:


> Hmm, you take your political learnings from Ray Martin??
> Mick



Lol rather than you taking yours from Murdoch is funny 
Mick


----------



## mullokintyre (4 April 2022)

Touche.


----------



## PZ99 (4 April 2022)

sptrawler said:


> It won't happen, the media is just trying to change the rhetoric, just in case the anti Scomo rhetoric hasn't worked.
> Last time they copped a lot of backlash from the punters, this time they have run a long game of blaming Morrison for everything, but they were burnt last time.
> So they now want to put up a possible alternative to reduce the odds.
> Really who cares, like I said earlier the next government has to make some hard decisions, the last time Labor were in the retirement age went up to 67 years old .
> ...



I was totally against moving the pension age to 67 although it was done to fund to increase the pension itself by some $30 a week.

Moving it to 70 was far worse because it's another 3 years, there was no further increase and it also meant your super had to last another 3 years if you retired at 65 and it was that scenario that led the calls to increase the super preservation age as well which is what Hockey was looking at and that really pissed me off because it punishes the savers who had done the right thing by saving / avoiding welfare.

Despite all the above I would vote for anyone moving it down to 62 and restore the quality of life that once made Australia great


----------



## mullokintyre (4 April 2022)

Humid said:


> Lol rather than you taking yours from Murdoch is funny
> Mick



The devil spawned Murdoch Press is reporting on the PM's department pushing for the engagement of a firm run by two of Scomos friends.
From The evil Murdoch empire


> A privately run quarantine scheme directed by two of Scott Morrison’s best friends was pushing the Department of Home Affairs to repatriate over 30,000 stranded Australians – despite claims the facility was primarily for skilled visa holders and international students.
> It comes as emails from Department of Home Affairs secretary Mike Pezzullo reveal he only received an amended proposal from DPG Advisory Solutions seven hours before he directed his department to engage the company on an “urgent advisory” basis.
> 
> DPG Advisory Solutions was founded and run by former Liberal Party candidate David Gazard, who previously worked as a Coalition ministerial adviser and Scott Briggs, the former deputy director of the Liberal party.
> ...



Kinda surprised that the ABC and others are not all over it.
Mick


----------



## Knobby22 (4 April 2022)

mullokintyre said:


> The devil spawned Murdoch Press is reporting on the PM's department pushing for the engagement of a firm run by two of Scomos friends.
> From The evil Murdoch empire
> 
> Kinda surprised that the ABC and others are not all over it.
> Mick



Didn't go ahead so no story.


----------



## mullokintyre (4 April 2022)

I thin


Knobby22 said:


> Didn't go ahead so no story.



I think the story is in the action  of Pezzullo pushing for it rather than the execution.
Mick


----------



## mullokintyre (4 April 2022)

The latest poll results still have me puzzled.
Not because of the waxing and waning of the two major parties, but the performance of all the others.
One nation has gone backwards, the greens and the  "others" are right back where they were at the last election.
I really thought that this would be a watershed election where non mainstream groups would hail a new era, but it just does not seem to be reflected in the polling results.
As we all remember , the pollsters were way out last time, so maybe they will be hopelessly wrong again.
Mick


----------



## PZ99 (4 April 2022)

Maybe folks are blaming the weather


----------



## Knobby22 (4 April 2022)

mullokintyre said:


> I thin
> 
> I think the story is in the action  of Pezzullo pushing for it rather than the execution.
> Mick



Yes, if it happened it would have been clear corruption. Thankfully it didn't.


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## Knobby22 (4 April 2022)

mullokintyre said:


> The latest poll results still have me puzzled.
> Not because of the waxing and waning of the two major parties, but the performance of all the others.
> One nation has gone backwards, the greens and the  "others" are right back where they were at the last election.
> I really thought that this would be a watershed election where non mainstream groups would hail a new era, but it just does not seem to be reflected in the polling results.
> ...



Whose polling?


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## mullokintyre (4 April 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> Whose polling?



My Apologies, I should have quoted the source.
Its the Newspoll from the Australian
Mick


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## sptrawler (4 April 2022)

How many of the people on ASF do polls, I know if I get a phone call or email about a poll, I just ignore it. It would be interesting to know what sort of people actually respond to polls, are they people who are really interested in putting forward their views, are they strongly opinionated people, or maybe they feel they are providing a service.
I think it would be interesting.


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## SirRumpole (4 April 2022)

sptrawler said:


> How many of the people on ASF do polls, I know if I get a phone call or email about a poll, I just ignore it. It would be interesting to know what sort of people actually respond to polls, are they people who are really interested in putting forward their views, are they strongly opinionated people, or maybe they feel they are providing a service.
> I think it would be interesting.




Probably the rusted ons from both sides.


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## Humid (5 April 2022)

mullokintyre said:


> The devil spawned Murdoch Press is reporting on the PM's department pushing for the engagement of a firm run by two of Scomos friends.
> From The evil Murdoch empire
> 
> Kinda surprised that the ABC and others are not all over it.
> Mick



Some think so it seems









						Revealed: The man Joe Biden thinks is the ‘most dangerous in the world’
					

Biden said media mogul was ‘even more toxic’ than Fox News, authors said




					www.independent.co.uk


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## moXJO (5 April 2022)

Humid said:


> Some think so it seems
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm not sure that the guy that sniffs children is a credible take.


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## Humid (5 April 2022)

moXJO said:


> I'm not sure that the guy that sniffs children is a credible take.



Would you prefer the prayer room type?


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## moXJO (5 April 2022)

Humid said:


> Would you prefer the prayer room type?



Sorry, strictly 'cocaine and hooker' deviants opinions for valid comments.


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## wayneL (5 April 2022)

moXJO said:


> Sorry, strictly 'cocaine and hooker' deviants opinions for valid comments.



Hunter?


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## moXJO (5 April 2022)

wayneL said:


> Hunter?



That dudes the full circle. Snorting cocaine off under-age hookers feet.


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## mullokintyre (5 April 2022)

Oops! Jim Chalmerts  the soon to be treasurer, had a small blunder on his twitter feed.
From Nrews com au


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## sptrawler (6 April 2022)

basilio said:


> Next time I'll just have to rewrite it in my own words won't I ?  Frankly there is nothing in that story that couldn't be also written,*  in a similar way, *in a biting analysis of how the ScoMo government has  been run.
> 
> After all that is the  point of good satire - telling the truth with a sting and laugh.



I guess the thing with politics is, truth can be subjective and is always presented in a one sided manner.
As can be shown by simply saying oh the Murdoch press, or oh the Guardian, or oh the SMH, the fox news, the ABC, the same article can be presented in several different ways.
The problem is the truth is the one that resonates with the readers or listeners personal beliefs, that doesn't mean it is the whole truth, only what that person wishes to believe is the truth according to their personal bias.


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## SirRumpole (6 April 2022)

sptrawler said:


> I guess the thing with politics is, truth can be subjective and is always presented in a one sided manner.
> As can be shown by simply saying oh the Murdoch press, or oh the Guardian, or oh the SMH, the fox news, the ABC, the same article can be presented in several different ways.
> The problem is the truth is the one that resonates with the readers or listeners personal beliefs, that doesn't mean it is the whole truth, only what that person wishes to believe is the truth according to their personal bias.




Yes, well explained. The other thing is that what is told may be the truth but what is not told may also be the truth, but not convenient to the teller.


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## Humid (6 April 2022)

All over Twitter but not boo elsewhere









						Jordan Shanks, the Parliament prayer room, a police raid and the sounds of silence - Michael West
					

Allegations of senior Liberal figures cavorting with sex workers in the Parliament prayer room. Another whistleblower raid. Why the silence?




					www.michaelwest.com.au


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## moXJO (6 April 2022)

Humid said:


> All over Twitter but not boo elsewhere
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hookers and blow, in a prayer room?
Classic Scomo!!


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## wayneL (6 April 2022)

One can make very few inferences about the silence. 

Glass houses?


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## wayneL (6 April 2022)

sptrawler said:


> I'm not on twitter, but it sounds like that is where all the hot gossip is.
> reading the post though, not even the left wing papers are reporting it, could it be because they have spent enough money on defamation cases, printing gossip has cost a lot of money in the last coupe of years.



Twitter is the gateway to the best macroeconomic and political information around, so long as careful not to create an Echo chamber.

At the same time it is the source of the most toxic and  horrific trolling imaginable. You need a hide as thick as a rhino.

Managed properly it can be an absolutely tremendous resource, but it brings out the worst in people too.

yin and yang


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## sptrawler (6 April 2022)

Doesn't Michael West write for one of the newspapers? maybe he could ask them why they don't chase it up.



			https://au.linkedin.com/in/michael-west-a8359372
		

michael west​Journalist at The Age/SMH​Greater Sydney Area​


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## moXJO (7 April 2022)

Humid said:


> All over Twitter but not boo elsewhere
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Christopher Pyne allegedly having sex with a male prostitute, who would of guessed....


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## Smurf1976 (7 April 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> The other thing is that what is told may be the truth but what is not told may also be the truth, but not convenient to the teller.



Yep. The biggest mistake anyone can make is to think that passing a "fact check" proves that media is unbiased.

Only a novice journalist or sub-editor would tell blatant lies. Rather, what they do is simply leave out the bits that don't suit their narrative and in doing so distort the whole thing.

Lobby groups do it too. Take something that isn't untrue but completely distort the meaning of it by leaving out selected details. Big business is often on the receiving end of that one - anyone claimed to be "the worst" at something has more often than not earned that title simply by being the largest. 

If you're the largest supermarket chain well then yeah, you probably are selling the most junk food. If you're the largest airline then you're burning the most fuel and making the most noise. If you're the largest bank then you've probably got the most loan defaults. etc. Not because your business is bad but simply due to scale. 

Looking only at things I know a lot about personally, my observation is that it's rare to see any media report that isn't at least somewhat distorted by means of omission. That being so, I assume the same applies to all other subjects and that effectively all media reporting is prone to bias by omission.


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## moXJO (7 April 2022)

Will give credit to the current government for the India trade deal. Pretty big accomplishment considering how 'protectionist' India is when it comes to trade.


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## PZ99 (8 April 2022)

moXJO said:


> Will give credit to the current government for the India trade deal. Pretty big accomplishment considering how 'protectionist' India is when it comes to trade.



A long process (like most FTA's) that took over 10 years and 351½ Prime Ministers to complete


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## PZ99 (8 April 2022)

PZ99 said:


> I was totally against moving the pension age to 67 although it was done to fund to increase the pension itself by some $30 a week.
> 
> Moving it to 70 was far worse because it's another 3 years, there was no further increase and it also meant your super had to last another 3 years if you retired at 65 and it was that scenario that led the calls to increase the super preservation age as well which is what Hockey was looking at and that really pissed me off because it punishes the savers who had done the right thing by saving / avoiding welfare.
> 
> Despite all the above I would vote for anyone moving it down to 62 and restore the quality of life that once made Australia great



It appears ASF's influence extends beyond these hallowed halls 









						Election-eve push to lower retirement age
					

More than 500,000 older Australians would get earlier access to the age pension under a Greens plan




					www.canberratimes.com.au
				




If it really does only cost $6b a year, it's money well spent


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## moXJO (8 April 2022)

PZ99 said:


> A long process (like most FTA's) that took over 10 years and 351½ Prime Ministers to complete



Getting done right before the election was a feat. I wonder who's desk they had to have sex on to get that accomplished.


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## PZ99 (8 April 2022)

moXJO said:


> Getting done right before the election was a feat. I wonder who's desk they had to have sex on to get that accomplished.



That actually makes a lot of sense if Malcolm Turnbull's "Bonking Ban" delayed the FTA's by 3 years


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## basilio (8 April 2022)

The PM is looking for as many "good news" stories as he can manufacture to get some traction for the election. He has already released all the  asylum seekers (after 9 years imprisonment)  so that thorn has been pulled.

Probably the next big ticket item would be establishing the Anti-Corruption agency which was promised 4 years.  The news I'm hearing is that the structure is in place but the Government now needs to find an appropriate organisation to run it and of course a CEO to give leadership and direction.

The whisper is Christian Porter  is being touted as the Commissioner with his extensive legal experience while the body itself will be hosted through a large business organisation with an interest in good governance.


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## basilio (8 April 2022)

So is the PM racist or not ? Would he  have seriously made up total racist  xhite about a political opponent in 2007 to enable pre selection in the seat that parachuted him into Parliament?

Of course no politician, particularly Liberal ones,  are  "Racist" insofar as they would never, ever acknowledge such behaviour or appear to overtly display such. 

But that's why we have dog whistles isn't it ? Many of the* critical* supporters of the Liberal Party are people who see their jobs being stolen by brown people (or some other non white color) and clutch their pearls at the fear of marauding boat loads of so called asylum seekers  from Iraq, Iran, Syria and so on. So it is important for the electorate  to truly understand the PM is on their side.  Because these are the votes that will tip the election.

Something to think about..


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## macca (8 April 2022)

I believe it was extreme behaviour like this that caused "the quiet folk" to vote Liberal last time, now it is happening again.

The majority of people prefer an orderly polite society, they are turned off by this nastiness and I suspect that 100's of people in Wyong will now swing towards Liberal

<<A regional cake shop, more used to sharing in the joy of people’s special moments, has been brutally trolled after gifting the Prime Minister cupcakes.>>



			https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/small-cake-shop-brutally-trolled-for-simple-gesture-during-pm-visit/news-story/d50c23fe19d9100f4cc126f46bae8ad8


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