# Melbourne Storm Busted!



## Whiskers (22 April 2010)

Well the storm are set to take the wooden spoon for 2010.

Stripped of all points so far and not to be allocated anymore for this season for salary cap breaches.

Also stripped of two premierships and three minor premiorships plus $1/2m fine and hand back $1.1m prize money and further investigations re Fraud.


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## derty (22 April 2010)

Best I have a beer when I get home to celebrate the Eels winning the 2009 Premiership then


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## prawn_86 (22 April 2010)

What a shambles Rugby League is


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## spooly74 (22 April 2010)

prawn_86 said:


> What a shambles Rugby League is




LOL, here they come!

Duckman must be grinning ear to ear


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## Wysiwyg (22 April 2010)

And I thought they were just a team of good players.   I think S. Prince has/had a cloud over him about pulling in a bit on the side. Any on that Whiskers?


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## Whiskers (22 April 2010)

Wysiwyg said:


> And I thought they were just a team of good players.




Yep, me too. I'm a fan of Slater a local Qld boy and Bellamy as a coach. Suggestions Bellamy is also one implicated in the fraud. 



> I think S. Prince has/had a cloud over him about pulling in a bit on the side. Any on that Whiskers?




Last I heard NRL salary cap auditor Ian Schubert investigated the claims, and found there was no evidence Prince expected a $400,000 house to be built for him by Simpson (builder).


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## awg (22 April 2010)

damm, wish I got on Storm for wooden spoon at 200/1 earlier this week.

There will be criminal charges, due to fraud.

Will smash the Storm for several years.

Their Captain will also be well and truely in the sights of the administrators, I cannot see how he could not have been knowingly involved, and in that instance, could not be absolved of wrongdoing


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## drsmith (22 April 2010)

Stripped of points and premierships ??

Clearly the on-field activities are the sideshow.

If what they did is that bad, close down the club and dismember it.


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## Solly (22 April 2010)

Can't keep two sets of books properly...geez..


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## trainspotter (22 April 2010)

Does this mean the 2007 MANLY WARRINGAH SEAEAGLES and the 2009 PARRAMATTA EELS will get the silverware?

Once again it proves my point of never backing anything with the word STORM in it's logo. Storm Financial, Melbourne Storm .. anyone see a pattern?


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## Wysiwyg (22 April 2010)

Whiskers said:


> Yep, me too. I'm a fan of Slater a local Qld boy and Bellamy as a coach. Suggestions Bellamy is also one implicated in the fraud.



 Yep some of the best of Queensland in the team. Maybe they can play for N.Q. Cowboys the rest of the season. :

Okay with the Prince story.


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## Whiskers (22 April 2010)

trainspotter said:


> Does this mean the 2007 MANLY WARRINGAH SEAEAGLES and the 2009 PARRAMATTA EELS will get the silverware?




Apparently not, if I heard correctly from the press conference.

The Storm will be stripped and the title left vacant for those years.


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## GumbyLearner (22 April 2010)

prawn_86 said:


> What a shambles Rugby League is




Remember Carlton's salary cap breaches prawn. That was a shambles too. 
Maybe the Storm could have taken a more subtle approach like the Ribot/Porky Morgan option and just let a few players been seen drinking/marketing the right beer in the right places. 

Although, I don't think it is right that you generalize about the entire NRL. Note that a club like South Sydney has ditched pokies from it's Social Club and has returned from the dead after News & PBL were determined to wipe them out. I bet Ol Rupe isn't happy at all.


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## newbie trader (22 April 2010)

Whiskers said:


> Apparently not, if I heard correctly from the press conference.
> 
> The Storm will be stripped and the title left vacant for those years.




In the games (Olympic and Commonwealth) if someone is caught cheating then the medal goes to the 'next in line'. I would have thought it would be the same, but I guess Manly and the SE can argue that.


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## newbie trader (22 April 2010)

Apparently early this morning some people made large bets on the Melb Storm to come last this year


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## chode84 (22 April 2010)

> In the games (Olympic and Commonwealth) if someone is caught cheating then the medal goes to the 'next in line'. I would have though it would be the same?




It can't really work like that because the teams that Melbourne knocked out in the finals series may have been better then the runners up.


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## prawn_86 (22 April 2010)

newbie trader said:


> In the games (Olympic and Commonwealth) if someone is caught cheating then the medal goes to the 'next in line'. I would have thought it would be the same, but I guess Manly and the SE can argue that.




But how do you determine next in line, when all season the games have been against an unfair opponent etc etc


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## newbie trader (22 April 2010)

prawn_86 said:


> But how do you determine next in line, when all season the games have been against an unfair opponent etc etc




In olympic game types, running for instance, dont they have heats --> QF --> SF ---> medal races. They dont rerun all these races ? Maybe my line of thinking is off on this one.


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## prawn_86 (22 April 2010)

newbie trader said:


> In olympic game types, running for instance, dont they have heats --> QF --> SF ---> medal races. They dont rerun all these races ? Maybe my line of thinking is off on this one.




Non team sports you are just essentially perfoming at your peak. Team sports such as rugby across a season mental aspects and injuries come into it.

If one team hadnt lost to the Storm in one year, that may have affected their attitude and helped them perform better etc. Also injurties, if a major injury occured against the team in question then what would have happened if they only had the 'proper' players they could afford...


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## newbie trader (22 April 2010)

prawn_86 said:


> Non team sports you are just essentially perfoming at your peak. Team sports such as rugby across a season mental aspects and injuries come into it.
> 
> If one team hadnt lost to the Storm in one year, that may have affected their attitude and helped them perform better etc. Also injurties, if a major injury occured against the team in question then what would have happened if they only had the 'proper' players they could afford...




Do you think that the other teams in the competition would mind if the SE and Manly were given the premiership for the respective years?


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## awg (22 April 2010)

Amazing that someone (Waldron?) would sign off the books, being that is by stat dec, and Storm is owned by News Ltd, a public company, would constitute fraud imo

Not so amazing the tip-off was an inside job, someone must have recently been assed.

Used to work at a place once that got expertly robbed in a big way several times. Years later, I found out the Parts manager, who was the meanest bloke I ever worked with, was a heroin user. Another worker was hugely devious , my brain just went 'click'


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## ROE (22 April 2010)

$20 on wooden spoon pay 200 to 1 odds


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## So_Cynical (22 April 2010)

I'm a fan and just disappointed that ill never see that great team in full flight again  stupid salary cap.


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## Broadway (22 April 2010)

Brian Waldren was apparently central to the scheme, but he is currently trying to build the Melbourne Rebels Super Rugby Union team for next year.
That team recently picked up players like Sterling Mortlock and Frier from the Waratahs. Suspicion now hangs over these guys and anyone else who signs up for the Melbourne Rebels.
This now stretches to Rugby union. They cant leave him as the ceo.


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## prawn_86 (22 April 2010)

newbie trader said:


> Do you think that the other teams in the competition would mind if the SE and Manly were given the premiership for the respective years?




No idea. The one game i tried to watch i fell asleep in front of :


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## Garpal Gumnut (22 April 2010)

I can't contact my bookie at all tonight.

I had a $1000 on Manly for Premiers in 2007.

This is pissing me off big time.

gg


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## JTLP (22 April 2010)

Wow. Isn't there a media bashing and a half on NSW tv for my beloved Storm.  Watching the Matty Johns show to catch up on the story...that guy from 2GB and the bald guy are absolute twats. To get rid of Melbourne would be a massive blow to the competition...irrespective of their wrongdoings. 

Central coast team...pffft. 

PS surely bookies would have a special clause in place for events such as this?


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## kgee (22 April 2010)

I like how Wally Lewis has suggested that its probably happening with all the teams
I don't have any first hand knowledge but did play rugby union when it was still an amateur sport and know all about backroom agreements to entice players
A very difficult policy to police, just because storm has being caught don't imagine that it isn't being played out elsewhere. Actually if I had a bottom dollar I'd throw it down on the chance that its happening with every team


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## newbie trader (22 April 2010)

JTLP said:


> Wow. Isn't there a media bashing and a half on NSW tv for my beloved Storm.  Watching the Matty Johns show to catch up on the story...that guy from 2GB and the bald guy are absolute twats. To get rid of Melbourne would be a massive blow to the competition...irrespective of their wrongdoings.
> 
> Central coast team...pffft.
> 
> PS surely bookies would have a special clause in place for events such as this?




Irrespective of whether the players knew or not the club are cheats and fraudsters (some ex players have now admitted to knowing about it, therefore it wouldnt be too far fetched to say that some current players would have known). Unless the bookies want to refund your money I couldn't see you getting it back from 07. I doubt you'll get your money back. All the betting was above board as the bookies had no knowledge.


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## Solly (22 April 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I can't contact my bookie at all tonight.
> 
> I had a $1000 on Manly for Premiers in 2007.
> 
> ...




gg, I'm copping a hiding at The Cove tonight. Lady Penelope is laughing her ar*e off at me and she doesn't even follow league.

She's really been different since she was awarded her Phd.
I've been a Storm supporter since Ribot de Bressac days....long story.
I've heard Rupert isn't too impressed either.

Looks like I'm going to have to change to the Titans. 
Got an accountant mate of call mine called Melvin and his partner Denise 
affectionately known as, the 'Double-entry Diva',  
who can covertly run two sets of books quite well if anyone is interested.


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## Duckman#72 (22 April 2010)

spooly74 said:


> LOL, here they come!
> 
> Duckman must be grinning ear to ear




Not saying anything! LOL


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## newbie trader (22 April 2010)

What do you guys think will happen to the 2010 Storm members? I wonder which players will leave.


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## So_Cynical (22 April 2010)

Its a bizarre situation..hard to imagine what will happen...i reckon the NRL,s decision to not award them any points at all for this year is crazy, clearly the best team in the league for half a decade basically destroyed for not self destructing and getting rid of either 1 key player or 2 or 3 mid range players.

What would storm have been over the last 5 years without Slater or Inglis or Cameron. ...clearly not the same team.

How can they play this weekend? the NRL has pretty much destroyed the games foothold in the southern capital....crazy stuff.


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## Riddick (22 April 2010)

A way forward for the storm:

1. tell the NRL to get stuffed and just pull out of the comp. The NRL will lose way more in revenue than the amount of the storm fine.

2. don't bother paying the fine. The NRL are not an organisation with a charter of public powers that includes fining individuals, companies and so forth. The fine is pending only as far as the NRL is the governing body. That is if you want to play in the comp, pay the fine, If you don't then you don't have to.

3. deceit is not the same as fraud. No party is the plaintiff in a legal sense. Sure the club decieved the NRL but the legal implications of this are far from clear.

4. Disband the club - good players will find a new home regrdless. the vast bulk of the roster would be picked up elsewhere in the coming year.

5. This would ruin the NRL in Victoria for a very long time and would expose the hipocritical nature of sydney centric thinking embedded deeply within the NRL psyche.


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## kgee (22 April 2010)

I don't quite get it ...I'm hearing differrent figures ....but a 5 year breach of 1.7 million dollars is only $300,000 and change a year over the limit.
which is nothing if that includes the reserve grade players and juniors
I mean on their books they must have 60 players? which would mean $5000 extra per person (chicken feed)
Plus the fact that either there extra funds were not an open cheque account or they did in some way self regulate: ie losing Israel Folau to the bronco's + a number of senior players moving on.
IMO they've being caught and made an example of


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## nioka (22 April 2010)

newbie trader said:


> Do you think that the other teams in the competition would mind if the SE and Manly were given the premiership for the respective years?




You would have to ask the teams that were defeated by the storms on their way to the finals. maybe they could have beaten Manly and Parramatta had they not been beaten by the Storm.


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## kgee (22 April 2010)

I'm so cynical about this: it's the first time NRL has being covered in WA by the major networks in the primetime slot in maybe forever.IMO this is B...S...T
grandstanding...sure the breach had to be acted upon but this is a blowout of massive proportions,


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## dutchie (22 April 2010)

Storm should give their best two players to Cronulla and be able to get points from now on.
\


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## Tink (23 April 2010)

Yep Riddick, I agree.

The Storm should just pull the plug from the game, though I feel for the supporters.

Its just been one thing after another since they joined.

Not an NRL fan here.


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## nulla nulla (23 April 2010)

Riddick said:


> A way forward for the storm:
> 
> 1. tell the NRL to get stuffed and just pull out of the comp. The NRL will lose way more in revenue than the amount of the storm fine.
> 
> ...




I agree with Riddick. This is a storm in a tea cup. The NRL should be told to get stuffed. If they were realistic about penalising the Melbourne Storm, the penalties would be in line with the penalties dished out to other clubs that were caught breaching the sallary cap. This appears to be little more than an opportunity for the NRL to grab some headlines and beat up on the Victorian Club.

The Storm Club should get legal advice and challenge the penalties in court. Who is to say that the loosing teams in the Grand Finals won by Storm (Manly & Parramatta) were not in breach of the sallary cap themselves. All bull dust and a (very successful) grab for media attention by the NRL. 

IMO the NRL would advance the code better if it developed some programs to educate the players on:
1. How to respect women;
2. How to deal responsibly with alcohol and drugs; and
3. How to plan for life after their playing careers end.


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## Tink (23 April 2010)

Yep Nulla Nulla.

Melbourne should just pull out and let them go back to their 2 man band - NSW and QLD and watch the game slowly self destruct.


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## JTLP (23 April 2010)

Still don't understand why you'd have 'secret files' stored away in a seperate room at the club headquarters? Surely people find this strange and the Storm can't have gone to that great of a length to hide it?

Mmmmmmmmm


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## Tatts (23 April 2010)

Seems strange that you would keep records of dodgy dealings that if found will put you in a world of hurt. Why not destroy any evidence?

(this was mentioned in an earlier post) Just heard on the radio betting odds (TAB) on Storm to take the wooden spoon yesterday went from 200-1 to 21-1, until it was suspended yesterday at 1pm. Someone apparently put $200 on them tuesday night and is in line to win $40k.

Apparently St Kilda fc (and the new Melbourne Union team) is to be audited/investigated during the time Brian Waldron was there.


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## basilio (23 April 2010)

It was interesting how for years Storm seemed able to lure and keep a number of top line players seemingly inside their salary cap. But pure logic would have said that unless these players are voluntarily forgoing hundreds of thousands of dollars there must be a scam. 

And you would think that the owners would be well aware of these commercial realities.... But perhaps you wouldn't want to ask too many questions when your pet club and special promotion team is winning premierships and being declared Team of the Decade.  So how much responsibility should News Ltd bear for not being willing to ask exactly how the club management was able to honestly attract and keep its  star stable?


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## Bushman (23 April 2010)

The Melbourne who? 

Then again the AFL seems to think that a West Sydney team is a good idea.


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## gav (23 April 2010)

Riddick said:


> A way forward for the storm:
> 
> 1. tell the NRL to get stuffed and just pull out of the comp. The NRL will lose way more in revenue than the amount of the storm fine.
> 
> ...




I agree.  And this would pretty much spell the end of NRL in Victoria, permanently.  This along with the expansion of the AFL and growing popularity of soccer will leave the NRL in a very vulnerable position.


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## Mofra (23 April 2010)

Not good news for the NRL, but very good news for those of us who follow the Australian game


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## Bushman (23 April 2010)

Mofra said:


> Not good news for the NRL, but very good news for those of us who follow the Australian game




Best comment I've read about the whole saga is that if the AFL finds that Waldron did the dodge at the Saints then there is the chance that they might be stripped of their wooden spoons! Lol.


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## Mofra (23 April 2010)

Bushman said:


> Best comment I've read about the whole saga is that if the AFL finds that Waldron did the dodge at the Saints then there is the chance that they might be stripped of their wooden spoons! Lol.



Classic!

They may need to be stripped of their royalties earned from the 10-game winning streak DVD from 2004


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## awg (23 April 2010)

Riddick said:


> 3. deceit is not the same as fraud. No party is the plaintiff in a legal sense. Sure the club decieved the NRL but the legal implications of this are far from clear.




I doubt the ATO will take such a sanguine view, in fact I would suggest they will be all over the players and club like a dirty rash, possibly even today.

Unless of course, they fully declared all payments, which would raise the issue of player complicity.

I notice there is a report, that the previous CFO, one Cameron Vale, "left the club after a falling out with Waldron.. he was bullied, and never got on with Waldron"

I suspect some severe head-kicking will take place here, if you **** with News Ltd, ATO, RL and fans, only public sacrifices will suffice.

At least with the Prince incident, it would appear any considerations of dodginess was kept NOT in writing


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## GumbyLearner (23 April 2010)

Bushman said:


> Best comment I've read about the whole saga is that if the AFL finds that Waldron did the dodge at the Saints then there is the chance that they might be stripped of their wooden spoons! Lol.




LOL As a saints fan I'll have to pay that. Maybe Waldron stashed all the cash in the highly advanced half-time Moorabbin water sprinklers or gourmet grub for Pluggers dishlickers.


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## GumbyLearner (23 April 2010)

*"cheat legal''* slogan sponsor withdraws support.

http://www.theage.com.au/rugby-leag...-dumping-storm-20100423-th3n.html?autostart=1

Major sponsor ME Bank announced this morning it was withdrawing its support for the club after yesterday's revelations forced a rethink.

"ME Bank believes in the principles of strong governance, transparency, integrity and fairness and we seek to ensure that all of our corporate and community partnerships uphold these same values," chief executive Jamie McPhee said.

The bank had supported the club since 2008.

Sportswear manufacturer SKINS, a fourth-tier sponsor whose latest advertising 
campaign slogan is *"cheat legal"*, also dumped the club.


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## Happy (23 April 2010)

Bushman said:


> Best comment I've read about the whole saga is that if the AFL finds that Waldron did the dodge at the Saints then there is the chance that they might be stripped of their wooden spoons! Lol.




Worst case scenario that wooden spoon might have to be split few ways, should creative salarries be more widely used.

To the point that it might become wooden splinter


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## Boognish (23 April 2010)

Mofra said:


> Not good news for the NRL, but very good news for those of us who follow the Australian game




Any sport you can't thrash the Kiwis and the Poms in is worthless.


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## Mofra (23 April 2010)

Boognish said:


> Any sport you can't thrash the Kiwis *and the Poms *in is worthless.



I guess that rules out Test Cricket soon


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## BrightGreenGlow (23 April 2010)

A few points about the Storm...

1. They invest heavily in young players that eventually grow up to become big name players. Due to the CAP they have to let them go. This is crazy.

2. The NRL should be punished for failing to properly audit the payrolls.

3. Since when can you take away previous year's premierships?

4. If they cannot attain points this year because their team is over the CAP how the hell is that fair to the other teams if the Storm beat them? NRL you are kidding yourselves.

5. This is yet another knee-jerk reaction from Sydney towards Melbourne.

6. Why are the fans and players being punished for what seems to be a management problem?

7. The NRL will lose out, no one will watch the games, attend the games, or buy Storm merchandise.

I would recommend a punishment as follows:
1. Management get the sack and flagged to never work in the NRL again.
2. Storm's current 8 points to be lost. Starting from 0 this week.
3. Option for Storm players to take a pay cut (much like the Bulldogs).
4. Storm may continue to play for points only when their current roster is under the CAP.
5. Premiership funds to be distributed to other clubs evenly.

I think gallop has lost the plot. You would be naive to believe every other clubs does not cheat the CAP system is some form or another. That's a FACT. I hear the Broncos have 100k+ paying cleaning jobs that a few wives seem to attain....


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## Macquack (23 April 2010)

BrightGreenGlow said:


> A few points about the Storm...
> 
> ....
> 2. *The NRL should be punished for failing to properly audit the payrolls*.




You must be joking? The NRL caught Melbourne Storm breaching the salary cap and they admitted their indiscretions. 

I would think it is very difficult to audit brown paper bags.

I will go along with the view that all clubs breach the salary cap in some form including AFL clubs.


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## nulla nulla (23 April 2010)

Has the club (new management, fans etc) commenced legal action against the auditors yet for failing to detect the "cooking of the books" in their annual audits?


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## Calliope (23 April 2010)

It's a pity that all NRL players weren't as upright as Alfie Langer, former captain of the Broncos. Although testing *more than three* times over the limit and charged with DUI the magistrate took the unusual view that a conviction might affect his travel overseas, so  he escaped with a small suspension and fine.

This was just B/S of course. The real reason was that he is such an upright citizen, a great role model and a credit to the NRL...and this is the first time they have caught him driving DUI. Correction; this is the first time they have charged him. It was so blatant.


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## Duckman#72 (23 April 2010)

I really find the amount of support for the Storm quite amazing considering the level of deceit in this case. Molly Meldrum was on TV this morning saying "They shouldn't have taken away the premierships....those boys won them fair and square".

It indicates a complete lack of understanding of why and how the salary cap works. The salary cap is one of the solid boundaries that teams play within. It is very clear. In modern sport, where every little advantage is seized upon an additional kitty of $1.7 over several years is a substantial benefit.

It is no surprise that in the AFL, the the two teams who receive legal salary cap concessions (Brisbane and Sydney), have played in 6 grand finals over the last decade - winning 4 of them. No wonder Eddie Maguire and Collingwood were fighting so hard for the salary caps to be evened up. Essendon won the 2000 Grand Final after going through the season 21-1 and were labled by some as "the greatest team ever". One year later and all their contracts that were "backended" came due - they had to offload players and were never the same again despite having the same "core" group. By not coming down hard on teams that rort the system, you are effectively punishing the teams who have done the right thing.

I have respect for a code that has respect for itself and its product. Yesterday David Gallop demanded that the whole of Australia respect the NRL and good on him. Never thought you'd hear Duckman saying that!!



BrightGreenGlow said:


> A few points about the Storm...
> 
> 1. They invest heavily in young players that eventually grow up to become big name players. Due to the CAP they have to let them go. This is crazy.




This is the cut throat nature of modern football. Both the AFL and NRL used to have "feeder territories" from which to foster and develop players, however with the modernisation of the codes, draft in the AFL and unfair advantages from certain areas, it is now open slather. It is a challenge for the administrators of both codes to given incentives to teams who "grow" their own. 

Ironically, a salary cap is designed to stop wealthy clubs plundering the talent of those weaker clubs. Teams like Carlton in the 70's and 80's were well known for trying to "buy premierships". 



BrightGreenGlow said:


> 2. The NRL should be punished for failing to properly audit the payrolls.



A perfect example of the "audit expectation gap". The gap between what the public expects and auditor to find and what an auditor is looking for and actually finds. There is an old saying by auditors "We're watchdogs, not bloodhounds". Having said that, I am amazed that the level of the deceit went undetected for so long.

But the NRL has been punished enough.



BrightGreenGlow said:


> 3. Since when can you take away previous year's premierships?



Since all the clubs signed Statutory Declarations to play within the guidelines set down by the NRL.



BrightGreenGlow said:


> 5. This is yet another knee-jerk reaction from Sydney towards Melbourne.



I can't see the motivation for the NRL to destroy Melbourne. Seems ridiculous - even taking into account State rivalry.  



BrightGreenGlow said:


> 6. Why are the fans and players being punished for what seems to be a management problem?



It is a double edged sword. The fans and players celebrated wildly their teams success and revelled in their dominance over the competition. Unfortunately it is more than just a management problem. It is not just an accounting journal entry. It is straight out cheating. It goes to the core of the football code and therefore it has to impact the fans and players. 



BrightGreenGlow said:


> 7. The NRL will lose out, no one will watch the games, attend the games, or buy Storm merchandise.




Quite possibly.


BrightGreenGlow said:


> I think gallop has lost the plot. You would be naive to believe every other clubs does not cheat the CAP system is some form or another.




I think David Gallop is to be commended. He has set the standard for every sporting code in the country. I bet there is a dozen or more football sides in Oz, running the ruler over the ledgers this weekend. And that can only be a good thing. Every team knows what the result of salary cap rorting will be. This was just as much about a message to the rest of the competition as it was for Storm. Gallop could easily have taken the soft option but he didn't.

As for "everyone is doing it" - that reason sounds as juvenile as the 16year old asking his girlfriend for sex.   

Duckman


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## Solly (24 April 2010)

Script writers have already started work on Underbelly 4. 
The title: UnderBellamy - A tale of two sets of books.

More gems here, http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/the-joke-is-on-the-storm-after-being-caught-for-cheating-the-cap/comments-e6frexni-1225857589239


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## Tink (24 April 2010)

Be interesting to see how many people go to the game on the weekend, or even for the rest of the year.

I can understand what you are saying Duckman, but I think he went to far to the point that he has locked out the supporters from the rest of the year

Carlton did the same but they were smart enough to realise that the Club would be there for the long term.

I really think after this the Melbourne Storm will be dead, as mentioned from other posters. 

Supporters will find other games to attend.


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## Calliope (24 April 2010)

Tink said:


> I really think after this the Melbourne Storm will be dead, as mentioned from other posters.
> 
> Supporters will find other games to attend.




Yes, they were mainly a team of imported professionals who deserted their own clubs attracted by the big money. They had few Melbourne or Victorian links.


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## Tink (24 April 2010)

Calliope said:


> Yes, they were mainly a team of imported professionals who deserted their own clubs attracted by the big money. They had few Melbourne or Victorian links.




Well the same thing happened when the Brisbane Lions and the Sydney Swans were relocated (Fitzroy and Sth Melbourne), it was hard enough to get people to the game, and if something like this happened there, I doubt the AFL would have gone to this extreme.

Carlton was never stripped of premierships and I cant remember if they lost all the points.


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## newbie trader (24 April 2010)

Tink said:


> I really think after this the Melbourne Storm will be dead, as mentioned from other posters.
> 
> Supporters will find other games to attend.




Since i was seven union and NRL were my favourites followed by AFL...last few years its changed to Union and AFL. I dont even bother with the NRL anymore, whenever I watch it I just can't forget all the scandals that have played out over the years and now it all just reminds me of what stereotypical rednecks would be like. I wonder how many people will begin to support the Melbourne rebels or the AFL instead of NRL. Anyone here a storm member and tried to get a refund on their 2010 membership?


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## Duckman#72 (24 April 2010)

Tink said:


> Be interesting to see how many people go to the game on the weekend, or even for the rest of the year.
> 
> I can understand what you are saying Duckman, but I think he went to far to the point that he has locked out the supporters from the rest of the year.




The NRL shouldn't be seen as responsible for locking out and disappointing supporters. The administrators of Storm took on that responsibility with each illegal transaction they oversaw. 

The NRL realised it would be a complete sham if the Storm beat any team home in 2010. How can you possibly penalise a team for a systemic, deliberate and unhanded manipulation of the salary cap over a 5 year period, and then invite them back into the competition with the list that had been built on corruption!! 

The heavy handed approach makes me wonder if there are more to come and the NRL know it and are setting the benchmark.

The level of support for League will be a concern for the NRL in the long term. In my opinion I think the Storm will get some strong support from the diehard fans for the next few weeks, but you have to question what the support is going to be like in the middle of August on a freezing wet and cold night in Melbourne. Are the supporters still going to be behind a club, just going through the motions?

People forget that while Melbourne has been a successful club over the past decade, it has mainly been on-field. The club still only averages crowds of 11,000 to 13,000, despite premiership successes, drawcard players like Slater, and a dominant home ground record. It was heavily subsidised by News Ltd and questions already existed about its viability under the new era of an independant commission. It is hardly what you would call a strong foothold in Victoria. 

If this is the amount of ground Rugby League has made in Victoria after 10 years of success, what ground will it lose with, reduced funding, reduced marquee players, reduced on field success and reduced credibility over the next 10 years?

There has always been a question mark over the Storm franchise. While Melbourne has been an "expansion" into another market, it has always been seen as an artifical expansion. How "artifical" will now be fully tested by the grass roots level of support Storm will need over the next 5 years. I'm not prepared to put Melbourne Storm in the same basket as the Western Reds and the Adelaide Rams, and for people like Phil Gould to call for the franchise to be moved to Brisbane are crazy, but the glory days are a long way behind them that's for sure.

Duckman


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## Tink (24 April 2010)

Yep, I am not fussed Duckman, but just weighing it up with the AFL and when they relocated their teams interstate, trying to make it National, just seems the NRL have crushed their own game.

As I said, I am not an NRL fan.


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## Duckman#72 (24 April 2010)

Tink said:


> Yep, I am not fussed Duckman, but just weighing it up with the AFL and when they relocated their teams interstate, trying to make it National, just seems the NRL have crushed their own game.



I agree.

Duckman the sporting enthusiast says "That makes the decision Gallop and the NRL took even more commendable. He is a quality sports administrator."

Duckman the rabid AFL nutter says "David Gallop is the best administrator the AFL have got."

Duckman


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## So_Cynical (24 April 2010)

Destroying the Melb storm cannot be good for the Game, that's the big mistake for the NRL .. leaving Melb with nothing to play for almost certainly destroys them...the NRL had an opportunity to make the worst thing to happen to the game, also perhaps one of the best.

By giving the storm the opportunity to compete from this point on with 0 competition points, they would have a chance to get some sort of team redemption, and a sort of fairy tale (comeback of the century) ending to the season could be possible.


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## Mofra (24 April 2010)

So_Cynical said:


> Destroying the Melb storm cannot be good for the Game, that's the big mistake for the NRL .. leaving Melb with nothing to play for almost certainly destroys them...the NRL had an opportunity to make the worst thing to happen to the game, also perhaps one of the best.



Then when you take into account the new Union francise & a second soccer club starting in Melbourne, even if Storm survive they have lost their claim to the niche non-AFL market in the city.


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## Garpal Gumnut (24 April 2010)

The Storm are a pack of scumbags, and Manly should be awarded Premiership for 2007.

gg


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## Lachlan6 (24 April 2010)

I have just got back from the Melbourne Storm training session after the Bellamy press conference. What a strange energy at the new Stadium. Hard to quantify, but I think the overwhelming sense was one of absolute loyalty by the Storm supporters and faithful. Although there is the overwhelming sadness by what has happened (loss of the two flags weighs the heaviest), the players put on a brave face and really embraced the crowd. 

It will be fascinating to see what eventuates from here. Who will leave? What will happen to Waldron? How will this year pan out knowing the club is playing for effectively nothing. This is such a shame that the crime was concocted by a few and it has tarnished the club to such a degree. I wonder if the club could have still won the two flags without the rort? I certainly do not think it will be the end of the Storm however. 

Go Storm!!!


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## Calliope (26 April 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> The Storm are a pack of scumbags, and Manly should be awarded Premiership for 2007.
> 
> gg




The scenario will probably go like this;

The Storms will head the unofficial league tables into the finals. They will win the finals if allowed to play. The losers will get the Premiership.


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## BrightGreenGlow (28 April 2010)

Ill be there at Diary Farmers this Saturday wearing the Storm jersey and still waving the flag. Still the best team for the last 10 years. Funny that some believe that 'their' club does not exceed the salary cap in one way or another... cannot wait to see the red faces when they all get found out in the months to come... 

The Storm have been great for the NRL you cannot doubt that.


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## moXJO (29 April 2010)

Jaycar is on Storms side

http://resources.news.com.au/files/2010/04/29/1225859/683081-dtfille-bulldogs-ad.pdf


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## Broadway (29 April 2010)

moXJO said:


> Jaycar is on Storms side
> 
> http://resources.news.com.au/files/2010/04/29/1225859/683081-dtfille-bulldogs-ad.pdf




The team is currently stacked with too much talent, alot more than any other nrl team can afford. If they are allowed to play for points then the disadvantage is to every other team and all their sponsors and fans. Every year teams have to let good upcoming talent go because they cant afford to keep them, why not melbourne?

The punishment is correct and fair, and dont tell me the players are innocent (noone can seriously believe the players didnt realise what the extra money was for?) or the other teams are doing it, without any proof.

Baseball in the USA is a dead sport for the majority of cities outside the rich yankees and redsox. Deleting the salary cap does not work. Why do you think the NFL and NBA have salary caps. An even competition is in everyones best interest.


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## moXJO (29 April 2010)

Broadway said:


> The team is currently stacked with too much talent, alot more than any other nrl team can afford. If they are allowed to play for points then the disadvantage is to every other team and all their sponsors and fans. Every year teams have to let good upcoming talent go because they cant afford to keep them, why not melbourne?
> 
> The punishment is correct and fair, and dont tell me the players are innocent (noone can seriously believe the players didnt realise what the extra money was for?) or the other teams are doing it, without any proof.
> 
> Baseball in the USA is a dead sport for the majority of cities outside the rich yankees and redsox. Deleting the salary cap does not work. Why do you think the NFL and NBA have salary caps. An even competition is in everyones best interest.




I'm not a storms supporter:
What happens if they drop players and go under the cap? It seems a bit stupid to have a team play for no points.


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## Tink (29 April 2010)

Yep moXJO, I agree.

As I said before, Carlton went through NONE of this in the AFL and they did the same.

Good on you Lachlan and John for supporting your Club, but I think you will be waiting if you think others will be brought in line. 

Would have been a few bonfires going on at the Clubs ridding evidence.


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## nomore4s (29 April 2010)

Tink said:


> As I said before, Carlton went through NONE of this in the AFL and they did the same.




Because Carlton didn't win anything, but they paid the price - only now are they again getting a competitive team together.

Also Carlton's breach was nowhere near the extent of the Storm's rorting.


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## Tink (29 April 2010)

nomore4s said:


> Because Carlton didn't win anything, but they paid the price - only now are they again getting a competitive team together.




Did they play for no points?

I dont remember that.


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## nomore4s (29 April 2010)

Tink said:


> Did they play for no points?
> 
> I dont remember that.




Because it all happened out of season

http://www.afana.com/netpaper/nov23-06907.html

Edit: It is also a bit different punishing a team who has put together a very strong outfit by cheating the cap and who made the last four GF's and finding out midway through a season compared to punishing a team that finished last with only 3 wins and finding out after the season is finished.

Carlton cheated and were still no good, lol.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_AFL_season#Ladder


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## Mofra (29 April 2010)

nomore4s said:


> Because Carlton didn't win anything, but they paid the price - only now are they again getting a competitive team together.
> 
> Also Carlton's breach was nowhere near the extent of the Storm's rorting.



There was systematic rorting in the 80s by a number of clubs until the AFL got it's act togther. I would expect a Hawks fan still laughs at Platten's screwing Carlton out of a new car 

Carlton won a flag in 95 which is widely regarded as tainted. Essendon were proven to be over the cap in 93 when they won the flag.


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## nomore4s (29 April 2010)

Mofra said:


> There was systematic rorting in the 80s by a number of clubs until the AFL got it's act togther. I would expect a Hawks fan still laughs at Platten's screwing Carlton out of a new car
> 
> Carlton won a flag in 95 which is widely regarded as tainted. Essendon were proven to be over the cap in 93 when they won the flag.




No argument there from me.

But if Geelong were found to be cheating the cap this year during this season to the same extent as the Storm I would be willing to bet a lot of money the penalties handed down would be along the same lines as the ones handed to the Storm.


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## Broadway (29 April 2010)

moXJO said:


> I'm not a storms supporter:
> What happens if they drop players and go under the cap? It seems a bit stupid to have a team play for no points.




The games they've won this season are tainted. So they could start from zero from today, if they agreed to sideline some players for the season.

But who do you sideline? 
These are players with bills, mortgages, families and contracts.
You can't just fire them from their jobs when it mostly wasnt their fault.
You have to allow them to earn a living, which is what this punishment does.

The other argument is if they all agree to a pay cut, let them play for points.
This is still a flawed argument because the team was put together under illegal circumstances, its like asking a state of origin side to play each week in the NRL.

The punishment is fair and well thought out.
Although if I was Manly or Parramatta, I would be organising unofficial premiership victory parties.


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## Mofra (29 April 2010)

nomore4s said:


> But if Geelong were found to be cheating the cap this year during this season to the same extent as the Storm I would be willing to bet a lot of money the penalties handed down would be along the same lines as the ones handed to the Storm.



They'd be broadly equivalent I agree, but structered differently due to the importance AFL clubs place on the National Draft.


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## Whiskers (29 April 2010)

Broadway said:


> *The other argument is if they all agree to a pay cut, let them play for points.*
> This is still a flawed argument because the team was put together under illegal circumstances, its like asking a state of origin side to play each week in the NRL.



I'm thinking this issue of payment should be sorted out immediatly too... either by pay cuts, someone quitting or a player that was knowingly involved, sacked,  then they would have a good case to go to court to win the right to play for points from now on. 

Seems rediculous to allow an illegal team to continue to play... like fining a drunk driver or unroadworthy vehicle and allowing him/her to keep driving home.


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## Tink (30 April 2010)

nomore4s said:


> Carlton cheated and were still no good, lol.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_AFL_season#Ladder




LOL too true : )



Mofra said:


> They'd be broadly equivalent I agree, but structered differently due to the importance AFL clubs place on the National Draft.




Yep have to agree Mofra, when it came to the National Draft, the AFL was different. When those teams started up in Sydney and Brisbane, I am sure they had a helping hand.


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## kgee (30 April 2010)

Whiskers said:


> Seems rediculous to allow an illegal team to continue to play...




Absolutley correct the problem being that there's probably IMO 3-4 other teams that are operating outside the salary cap rules (but without a whistle blower it will be very hard to prove)

And IMO the harshness of these penalties put upon the Storm are a warning to other clubs to be careful

And talking about fairness...Won't teams who play the storm later in the season be put at an advantage because they will be able to rest key players?


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## BrightGreenGlow (30 April 2010)

Go the STORM.  I hear since this story has come out they have had over 700+ new club members.. 100 a day is very good for a NRL team.


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## Wysiwyg (1 May 2010)

Calliope said:


> The scenario will probably go like this;
> 
> The Storms will head the unofficial league tables into the finals. They will win the finals if allowed to play. The losers will get the Premiership.



The Storm can't play finals footy because they will have zero points at the end of the competition rounds.


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## GumbyLearner (2 May 2010)

Another Gomer Pyle moment.

$1.1 million pokies cash for player sponsorships.

*Storm link to pokie club's $1.1m community benefit payment
*CAMERON HOUSTON AND MARIS BECK
May 2, 2010

MELBOURNE Storm is under investigation by Victoria's gambling watchdog over $1.1 million in sponsorship payments made by a Keysborough pokie venue owned by Bruce Mathieson and Woolworths. 

http://www.theage.com.au/rugby-leag...-community-benefit-payment-20100501-u0bo.html


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## newbie trader (2 May 2010)

GumbyLearner said:


> Another Gomer Pyle moment.
> 
> $1.1 million pokies cash for player sponsorships.
> 
> ...




I heard an ex NRL player talking about how a club would apparently set aside one pokie machine and whatever profit that machine made in a year a specific player would get on top of his official salary.


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## Whiskers (14 May 2010)

I'd like to see a court challenge against the NRL by the independent directors to test the verasity of the NRL penalty.

There seems to be a degree of intimidation by News Ltd to prevent an independent examination of the facts and adjudication of a fair penalty.

If the Independent directors fund the case, what has news got to loose or are they afraid of what might come out?


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