# Racism in India



## Garpal Gumnut (8 January 2010)

The second memsab, Mrs Gumnut 2, and I took a trip through India from Mumbai to Hyderbad in the early eighties. 

It was the most racist country I have ever visited in all my born days.

I have diplomat contacts in India, a country of cocky caste bloated mini hitlers, and they avow it has not changed much since.

The blacker you are in India the less you earn, the more menial your status and the less chance you have of marrying a person of a lighter hue.

Indians, do not call the kettle black, and slag Australia's good record on welcoming people different from themselves to join our great nation.

If you want to educate your upper and middle classes here, do so, but do not bite us in your caucosoid media for having a crime problem in our cities.

gg


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## Mofra (8 January 2010)

Probably worth mentioning that even on a per capita basis India has over double the homicide rate of Australia, and most of the furore started during a news vacuum following their national elections.

A someone walks through a park alone at night - regardless of race he's going to be a target.


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## Fishbulb (8 January 2010)




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## Garpal Gumnut (8 January 2010)

*Where ignorance is bliss, tis folly to be wise.*

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-adverts-ignite-race-row-in-india-863936.html



> Skin-whitening adverts ignite race row in India
> 
> By Andrew Buncombe in Delhi
> 
> ...




gg


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## nunthewiser (8 January 2010)

> Australian police have been depicted as members of the Ku Klux Klan in a cartoon published in India.
> 
> In the cartoon, in Tuesday's edition of Delhi's Mail Today newspaper, an Australian officer is seen in a white hood, saying: "We are yet to ascertain the nature of the crime", News Ltd reports.
> 
> The provocative image was printed days after the death of Indian student Nitin Garg in a Melbourne park.




Unreal.


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## cornnfedd (8 January 2010)

Like everything else the Australian Government takes a weak stance.... its about time we (the Government) stuck up for Australia.

and I agree with GG 100%


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## Fishbulb (8 January 2010)

(false) patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel - Samuel Johnson


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## skc (8 January 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> *Where ignorance is bliss, tis folly to be wise.*
> 
> Skin-whitening adverts ignite race row in India




Should have used Wacko Jacko in the ad.

I was told that dead persons can be used by advertisers without having to pay royalties.


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## Garpal Gumnut (8 January 2010)

Patriotism is much maligned by the unaligned masses seeking a nirvana in Total World Guvment according to their own biases.

India is probably one of the most racist countries I've ever visited.

gg


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## Fishbulb (8 January 2010)

Nothing wrong with patriotism, but used as a cloak of righteousness is just downright despicable. 

Racism and patriotism are basically mutually exclusive to anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together. Racism in any form, whether reversed or otherwise, is harmful.


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## Garpal Gumnut (8 January 2010)

It is sad though when some folk equate standing up for your own country and its values with racism.

It seems a rather vulgar response to deeply held noble beliefs.

I still reckon India is more racist than Australia.

It is institutionalised over there, with bully boys using religion and genes as an excuse to limit inter racial mixing.

At least in Australia racism is not institutionalised, and wogs, kiwis and greeks can intermarry with kooris, skippies and poms, and do so in all combinations of the above.

gg


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## Fishbulb (8 January 2010)

I get that you're reacting to India branding us as a racist nation, and that KKK cartoon thing is just a joke. 

BUT - racism remains bull****, no matter the degree used. 

This country has racists. No question, but I defy anyone to name one that doesn't. 

So, I don't think labelling another country as racist in reaction to news items or whatever, is a particularly cool thing. But - in this country we still have relatively "free speech".


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## Agentm (8 January 2010)

i dont think your on the money fishbulb

its easy to judge australians as racist because an indian was murdered in a park, 

but we dont know how or what the motivation was, and if it was racist, and its certainly not correct that the police, government and populace feels the murder of an indian student needs covering up, nor do any feel the investigation of that murder be treated any less than any of the other murder investigations that have less notoriety 


i agree with gg on the fact that the indians themselves are extremely racially biased, towards their countrymen with their class system, and towards their neighbours on all borders.

i also believe the indians treatment of their women and daughters is very much questionable

to brand the whole country as racist because of a murder is going beyond what is rational


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## Fishbulb (8 January 2010)

Agentm said:


> i dont think your on the money fishbulb
> 
> its easy to judge australians as racist because an indian was murdered in a park,
> 
> ...





I'm talking about something else entirely. You should re-read in context

Here, you're doing what everyone else does "The water's wet" - well we all know that.


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## Garpal Gumnut (8 January 2010)

The thread is about racism in India.

My premise is that racism in India is very very bad, in fact worse than in Australia.

Is it?

Lets talk about it instead of just arguing about "wet water".

Are all nations intrinsically racist, and just some more than others?

gg


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## Agentm (8 January 2010)

i agree.. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_India


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## Fishbulb (8 January 2010)

I'm obviously out of my depth, so I'll leave you guys to it.


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## Prospector (8 January 2010)

Many Asian cultures prefer lighter skin to darker skin, hence they protect their skin when in the sun so they dont accumulate a tan.  Is that racist?  How could it be when they are all the same race.  It is like some men preferring blondes to brunettes for instance, and calling that racist.

In Indian culture, the greatest division in their society is based on caste and that has nothing to do with race.


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## Happy (8 January 2010)

They can talk about it, because *they know what they are talking about *


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## pilots (8 January 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> The thread is about racism in India.
> 
> My premise is that racism in India is very very bad, in fact worse than in Australia.
> 
> ...




 GG, I worked in India for some years, we loved reading the papers that was advertising men looking for brides, and woman looking for husbands, they would describe the skin color as wheatish looking, you are correct when you say that India is the most raciest country, I have never been in any other country as bad as they are.


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## UBIQUITOUS (8 January 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Patriotism is much maligned by the unaligned masses seeking a nirvana in Total World Guvment according to their own biases.
> 
> India is probably one of the most racist countries I've ever visited.
> 
> gg




You said that you went in the early eighties. Therefore using your logic, I would say that Australia is one of the most racist countries I have ever visited based on the way Aboriginies were 'assimilated' many years ago.


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## Garpal Gumnut (8 January 2010)

UBIQUITOUS said:


> You said that you went in the early eighties. Therefore using your logic, I would say that Australia is one of the most racist countries I have ever visited based on the way Aboriginies were 'assimilated' many years ago.




tut tut ubi,

Selectively quoting is poor, very poor.

Go back and read the post and quote the entire paragraph.

:headshake


gg


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## prozac (8 January 2010)

skc said:


> Should have used Wacko Jacko in the ad.
> 
> I was told that dead persons can be used by advertisers without having to pay royalties.




You'd have to dig him up first!


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## prozac (8 January 2010)

Chinese are pretty good at it too escept in China you're likely to get locked up for being wrong type of Chinese or your belief.

I have a Chinese neighbour on one side and Jordanians on the other. The Jordanians had pommy neighbours until recently. The Chinese family hate me and I believe it is racism. They hate the Jordanians and have told me as much, except when they want to complain about someone else in the street (me). The pommies hated the Jordanians calling them Arabs which strictly speaking is a different race again. The Jordanians and I just laugh about it over a beer.


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## UBIQUITOUS (8 January 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> tut tut ubi,
> 
> Selectively quoting is poor, very poor.
> 
> ...




I thought it is good, very good. I should be a journalist!

On the subject of India, I will say that its not racism which is so prevalent there, it is all forms of 'isms'. Lets just say that I know a LOT about India. 

However, I would also say that us Aussies get SO defensive when anybody questions us (I can lay claim to several nationalities). Yes India should look at themselves, but I do believe that there is an issue here with the treatment of Indian students. Its 50% racism, 50% studentism.


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## Garpal Gumnut (8 January 2010)

UBIQUITOUS said:


> I thought it is good, very good. I should be a journalist!
> 
> On the subject of India, I will say that its not racism which is so prevalent there, it is all forms of 'isms'. Lets just say that I know a LOT about India.
> 
> However, I would also say that us Aussies get SO defensive when anybody questions us (I can lay claim to several nationalities). Yes India should look at themselves, but I do believe that there is an issue here with the treatment of Indian students. Its 50% racism, 50% studentism.




One of the garpalsons is seeing a mate off to Afghanistan tonight.

His mates all come from different ethnic backgrounds and all share their loyalty to the ADF.

It will take a few generations to breed out the Jordanian and Chinese genes into Aussie, maybe longer for the Pom.

But in the end their grandchildren or g grandkids hopefully will be Australian.

In India, black or less black still matters. You are born poor and black, and the lighter castes ensure you stay poor. And thats what pisses me off about those silly bastards in India, who can't even play cricket, having a go at Australia for alleged racism.

gg


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## nunthewiser (8 January 2010)

Hmmmmmmmmmm

Well being an Australian of Burmese and Pommy descent with a cupla Indian uncles (in laws), and a Burmese uncle that married a Thai girl and a spanish brother in law and a best mate thats Aborginal thats shacked up with an Italian girl.... Who the hell can i pick on ??.

Might get some Chinese and wash it down with a German beer whilst smoking some afganni hash.

Geez small minded people shiit me .

Ooops i nearly forgot . My Grandafather was French silly ole bugger that he was for going to Burma in the first place and causing all this kerfuffle .


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## prozac (8 January 2010)

Hahahaaa.

I reckon the Chinese guy is the worst and the pommies who recently moved don't even really like the Australians so I reckon they will take a long time to assimilate. Because they are white it is harder to pick. The Jordanian neighbours are doing better than any of the others and are very neighbourly and more assimilated than any of the others. 

Back to India, last week an Indian bloke murdered his young Indian wife in Sydney. Not a racist attack I know but nonetheless and Indian death in a foreign land that will not be reported in India because it did not involve a non Indian person as the perpetrator. Just a thought.


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## pilots (8 January 2010)

prozac said:


> Hahahaaa.
> 
> I reckon the Chinese guy is the worst and the pommies who recently moved don't even really like the Australians so I reckon they will take a long time to assimilate. Because they are white it is harder to pick. The Jordanian neighbours are doing better than any of the others and are very neighbourly and more assimilated than any of the others.
> 
> Back to India, last week an Indian bloke murdered his young Indian wife in Sydney. Not a racist attack I know but nonetheless and Indian death in a foreign land that will not be reported in India because it did not involve a non Indian person as the perpetrator. Just a thought.




Had the same thing here in Perth, top lawyers wife, who both are Indian, was murdered and dumped in Kinks park, the cops said it could be the husband that done it, he now is going to sue the police.


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## prozac (8 January 2010)

Death by Indian....doesn't count.


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## Garpal Gumnut (8 January 2010)

Agree.

Burt Munro would be ashamed of these Indians.

gg


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## condog (8 January 2010)

Australian citizens of Indian decent have come out this afternoon saying they are disgusted in the report........

To mee its not a racist issue, its a violence and criminal infested society that needs fixing....... 

has noithing to do with race, and I am so glad these Ausie based Indian spokes people made this clear....


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## Garpal Gumnut (8 January 2010)

condog said:


> Australian citizens of Indian decent have come out this afternoon saying they are disgusted in the report........
> 
> To mee its not a racist issue, its a violence and criminal infested society that needs fixing.......
> 
> has noithing to do with race, and I am so glad these Ausie based Indian spokes people made this clear....




Yes garpalcircle includes many Indians and they are distressed by the reports from India, while maintaining an open mind on the recent murder.

gg


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## IFocus (8 January 2010)

nunthewiser said:


> Hmmmmmmmmmm
> 
> Well being an Australian of Burmese and Pommy descent with a cupla Indian uncles (in laws), and a Burmese uncle that married a Thai girl and a spanish brother in law and a best mate thats Aborginal thats shacked up with an Italian girl.... Who the hell can i pick on ??.
> 
> ...




Always knew you were a real Aussie Nun


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## Tink (9 January 2010)

The media always fuels the masses, no matter what country you are in.


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## Prospector (9 January 2010)

Tink said:


> The media always fuels the masses, no matter what country you are in.




I think the media runs the country!  And I hate it when the media says things like "People are clamouring for information about ABC person" - no they aren't, the media just tells us that we are because that is what their agenda, not ours!  Or they make up some details, then go out of their way to tell us its the truth!


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## Calliope (9 January 2010)

An Australian working in India picked a bad time to start a one-man crusade to improve the sanitation standards on the streets. He took a pot-shot with an air rifle from his balcony, where he was drinking with his mates, at an Indian having a leak in the street.

He has been charged with attempted murder. Being an Aussie his excuse will be, no doubt, that he was drunk. This defence, however, only works in Australia, where drunkenness is part of our culture.


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## Garpal Gumnut (9 January 2010)

Calliope said:


> An Australian working in India picked a bad time to start a one-man crusade to improve the sanitation standards on the streets. He took a pot-shot with an air rifle from his balcony, where he was drinking with his mates, at an Indian having a leak in the street.
> 
> He has been charged with attempted murder. Being an Aussie his excuse will be, no doubt, that he was drunk. This defence, however, only works in Australia, where drunkenness is part of our culture.




I guess the Indians may take it out on this bloke as a proxy for all Australians. It will be interesting to see how the judicial process works out. They are a good people by and large legislatively and judicially, having passed and enforced many brave laws attemting to curb the ingrained racist views of the ruling classes.  

gg


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## GumbyLearner (9 January 2010)

Fishbulb said:


> This country has racists. No question, but I defy anyone to name one that doesn't.
> 
> So, I don't think labelling another country as racist in reaction to news items or whatever, is a particularly cool thing. But - in this country we still have relatively "free speech".




I tend to agree and we do have relatively "free speech". But it does help if  
1. your in politics 
2. preferably with the surname Theophanus
3. cashed up enough to litigate against newspapers 
4. a penchant for beautiful Asian women

I agree there are racists in this country. Thank God we didn't grow up under the old Soviet Bloc!


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## Purple XS2 (10 January 2010)

I last lived in Melbun (where I grew up) a few years ago, recently enough to see gang violence and hoodsterism were much worse than in former days. If the attention on the violence against Indian and other overseas students leads to a crack down on thugs, then those who spotlight the issue are doing us all a favour.



UBIQUITOUS said:


> ... I do believe that there is an issue here with the treatment of Indian students. Its 50% racism, 50% studentism.




Every case has its own perpetrators and its causes, but my crystal ball says another factor is that certain elements in Australia, having seen the outrage such attacks are causing, are motivated to fan the flames, not simply because they hate Indians (which I'm sure they do) but because they hate Australia more.

  P.


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## UBIQUITOUS (10 January 2010)

http://www.theage.com.au/national/indian-man-set-on-fire-in-essendon-attack-20100109-lzb4.html

"Detective acting Senior Sergeant Neil Smyth said "we are investigating all possibilities but early indication show it was not racially motivated"


Errr...are there any racially motivated attacks in this country at all?


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## Garpal Gumnut (10 January 2010)

UBIQUITOUS said:


> http://www.theage.com.au/national/indian-man-set-on-fire-in-essendon-attack-20100109-lzb4.html
> 
> "Detective acting Senior Sergeant Neil Smyth said "we are investigating all possibilities but early indication show it was not racially motivated"
> 
> ...




The case of Benbrika and his mates comes to mind, racially and religiously motivated against Australians.

gg


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## Miner (10 January 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> The second memsab, Mrs Gumnut 2, and I took a trip through India from Mumbai to Hyderbad in the early eighties Miner's comments- please visit again as the plane fare is much lower, at that time there was no computer,  and 30 years have gone down)
> 
> It was the most racist country I have ever visited in all my born days. (Please try to come to point with present world situation - Miner's comments )
> 
> ...




GG 

I was intrigued to see this thread after returning yesterday back home  from a ten days visit in India .

I thought to share few things on the so called racism issue being spreaded on the media and the 'she will be alright mate' attitude by our bureaucrats to handle the issue right in the begining.

Both me and my wife organised a get together party attended by some 120 people from both families and close friends (you think attending 35 in a marriage ceremony back here is a good number). Many of them we have not met when we have had our marriage attended by a small 700 people back 86.
Sorry for the digression but the main question we faced there was how we were surviving in a racist country like Australia and if our children were safe in Australia. We had to defend Australia like any thing to tell them the real story behind the beating of Indian students and to explain them that it was not racially motivated. Please remember the people attended the party included Presidents and CEOs of some of the good size Indian corporations, Police dignitaries, bank managers and top bureaucrats. 

I also met few business leaders subsequently in Mumbai - the busines capital of India on my return to Australia. I faced the same inquiry from those people before start of the meeting as an out of agenda item. 

What message I gathered there - that Australian High Commission and bureaucrats fed by Australian tax payers have miserably failed to demonstrate a busienss case to project Australila before India considering $4 billion was under stake from education earning alone, IPCL cricket earnings, big business transaction between Australia and India. 

There have been many killings in UK and USA as well as beating up there. At no stage I am suggesting that they were good or acceptable practice, But the Indian media never became very sensitive about it. 

GG you however need to update your knowledge from 80s. Now Microsoft has 40% of its employees from India and many top companies like Oracle, Citi are headed by Indians.

It is same story when we landed in Melbourne in 92 people refused to shake hands with me following an interview or sit next to me in tram or train. IT was the lack of awareness of so called Australians about the rest of world and it is the same Australia where Indian businesses are welcomed (Aditya, Birla Nifty, Pedgmen Chemicals, RCI, RIV, GNU and plenty). Today I get special welcome in any of the meetings I attend and people do consider my opinion. What I am trying to say here PLEASE do not ruminate the old story but PLEASE consider the present and just move on.  Australia has White POlcy until 1977  but we on paper have wiped that out. Women  and Aborginals were not allowed to vote but today is different. Let us face the present world and not to revolve on past glories or sins. 

World has changed since then and so is India. WIth IT revolution, GATT, Globalisation of businesses, India has leaped forward from 80 saga. Yes, I do remember being a white was an advantageous in India but things have changed. Indian economy (please disregard the per capita income stats - they are just rubbish considering market potential in India is huge). I bought a pair of Nike Shoe at $250,  paid INR 900 (= A$ 25) for a double shot whisky only day before yesterday. I thought it was too much but saw there were at least 30 people around me who were all Indians (included in the per capita figure) who were very happy to consume enough alcohol and food at the same place. they may be top 10% of population but that is good enough to equate population of 9 Australias. 

*Bottom line is definitely to condemn the beating of any nationals as a part of law and order situation but at the same time not to encourage the suggestion that such incidents were motivated by racism. We all have a duty to protect our image as proud Australians in outside world and that MUST NOT be justified by projecting poor country image or castism in India. *


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## Garpal Gumnut (10 January 2010)

Thanks Miner,

I accept and agree with all your points.
True understanding and the abolition of racist attitudes between peoples needs the active involvement of both nations.
There are faults with Australia and with India.
To describe Australia as being more racist than any other country is wrong, particularly India.

gg


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## Miner (10 January 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Thanks Miner,
> 
> I accept and agree with all your points.
> True understanding and the abolition of racist attitudes between peoples needs the active involvement of both nations.
> ...




Thanks GG for your  agreement and kind understanding.

Yes, I totally agree that it is joint responsibilty for both people from Australia  and India to voice their opinions at public forums and through government delegation to protect and respect each other, to condemn wrong things as wrong without taking the shelter of emotive issues like racism or casteism. 

Please take care and let us return to stock market on Monday.


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## Julia (10 January 2010)

The exchange above between Miner and gg could serve as an example to all of us on how to exchange views in a civil manner.

Goodonya, both of you.


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## Miner (11 January 2010)

Julia said:


> The exchange above between Miner and gg could serve as an example to all of us on how to exchange views in a civil manner.
> 
> Goodonya, both of you.




Thank you Julia.

You have been always rational to put your views. I do value and appreciate your comments made both on GG and me to promote some good debates in this forum.

Regards


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## Bushman (11 January 2010)

Miner said:


> GG
> 
> I was intrigued to see this thread after returning yesterday back home  from a ten days visit in India .
> 
> ...





Miner - thank you for your informed and passionate post. The 'eye for an eye' media sensationsalism in both countries plays up to old stereotypes in both nations. Good on you for speaking out for two nations that are obviously close to your heart.

I feel sorry for the family of the poor boy killed to have to see this tragedy played out on the global stage. Unfortunatley young men the world over will always be at risk of violence from their peers. I have two young boys at home and the rise of these unprovoked knife-related crimes scared the bejesus out of me. It is not a question of race, it is a question of youth. That is the real tragedy here worth reflecting on.


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## Miner (11 January 2010)

Bushman said:


> Miner - thank you for your informed and passionate post. The 'eye for an eye' media sensationsalism in both countries plays up to old stereotypes in both nations. Good on you for speaking out for two nations that are obviously close to your heart.
> 
> I feel sorry for the family of the poor boy killed to have to see this tragedy played out on the global stage. Unfortunatley young men the world over will always be at risk of violence from their peers. I have two young boys at home and the rise of these unprovoked knife-related crimes scared the bejesus out of me. It is not a question of race, it is a question of youth. That is the real tragedy here worth reflecting on.




Thanks Bushman for your comments.  I do share your  sentiment of killing a youth at 21 years in our own land, when I live with a son of 22 years and daughter of 10 years at my own home.

I am in all honesty very impressed at the responses received from all of you showing the high quality and balanced views from  the participants in this forum . It really shows that there are always good people  every where but it is often the media who distorts the views of people in the negative way.

Regards


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## Happy (11 January 2010)

I do not follow this story 100% so my understanding is probably not 100% either, but person dies in Australia every few days as a result of foul play.

So probability of getting killed in Australia is not as high as in some other countries, but is not ZERO either.

What irks me is that because killed person was born in another country or born to parents who migrated from another country is plastered as RACIALLY MOTIVATED MURDER. 

Not to mention that official investigation did not conclude yet. 
(Why Australia is guilty before can prove or disprove the claim???)

With conspiracy cap on, one can also suspect, that this could be twisted back door encouragement for citizens to migrate back as it is so unsafe here.

Panic and stampede are not uncommon tools in goals achievements either, so bigger noise the better effect.


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## prozac (11 January 2010)

It is a very sad situation for a family who must have had such high hopes for their son who could achieve a higher education in Australia.

Watched a program the other night and the suggestion was that Indian students put themselves at risk of attack not only because they work for instance at 24 hr petrol stations to support their studies but also because of lifestyle. I think I understood this to mean apart from living in cheaper rental areas Indian males tend to socialise in the street making them more visible, and also tended to carry around items such as laptops uncovered (not in a bag) perhaps because they are often working on assignments etc. This makes them a target for being robbed which of-course is not a race issue, it is about moderating or adjusting your behaviour and habits to better suit your environment.

The report stated in 2008 1,100 Indians were killed (in India) by terrorist activities. This makes our statistics pale into the background but suggests that it may not be safer at all living in India, and the media needs to refocus on the issues. A young man was killed in a foreign land and maybe media should dwell on the waste of life, his lost future, the loss by his family, and what can be done to reduce violent crime and catch criminals who perpetrate it.


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## Garpal Gumnut (11 February 2010)

Indian Racists are at it again.

A Bollywood star called Khan, a Muslim and a bit of a ******** to be honest, has inflamed Hindu emotions and they now as I write are on the rampage in Mumbai.



> The Shiv Sena, a Mumbai-centered political party known for regional chauvinism and Hindu fundamentalism, has branded Khan a traitor for expressing regret that no cricketers from Pakistan - India's arch rival - were chosen to participate in next month's Indian Premier League Twenty20 tournament.
> 
> Khan, who is Muslim, has refused to apologise for the comments.




http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/peo...-is-khan-and-im-in-trouble-20100211-nucf.html

When will India learn to curb its racist birth after the British left in 1948. Will strife and assault of minorities be a hallmark of Indian culture for evermore?

gg


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## GumbyLearner (11 February 2010)

Melbourne's topcop says *'looking as poor as you can'* reduces the risk of assault.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...-add-fuel-to-indian-crisis-20100211-ntje.html

*Cultural faux pas add fuel to Indian crisis*
ELIZABETH HILL
February 11, 2010 - 11:49AM

Comments 5

The Victorian Chief of Police's advice to international students to "look as poor as you can" as a strategy to avoid being assaulted is the latest in a growing list of inappropriate and unintelligent offerings by Australian officials involved in the current Indian student crisis. The comment is patronising and insulting, especially when directed at students who come from a country in which about 800 million people are very poor. It may have been a throwaway line, but in the context of the current bi-lateral turmoil between Australia and India, off-the-cuff remarks create trouble. They also point to underlying ignorance and prejudice.

The first problem with Simon Overland's comment is that it blames the victim. Unable to provide safe and secure public spaces to our visitors, the police chief lays the blame, and thus the solution to the problem, at the foot of the visitors the police are employed to protect. Surely the problem is police incapacity, not student dress codes.

Here is an excerpt on Derryn Hinch's take on all of this

http://www.hinch.net/hinch-says-2010/February/08-02-10.html

*POORLY DRESS POLICY*

So Victorian Police Chief Simon Overland has made it official.  Melbourne is a violent city. Obviously one of the most risky places in the world.  So dangerous that, to avoid being mugged, we should all dress like hobos, look like bums. Look so poor, that no self-respecting thief or basher will look twice at you. Don’t carry a mobile phone. Don’t use an ATM. Can you believe this insulting rubbish?

The Commissioner’s spin doctors have gone into overdrive and insist he was taken out of context but this is what Mr. Mushroom told Indian students at a forum on international student safety:

‘Don’t display your iPods, don’t display your valuable watch, don’t display your valuable jewellery. Try to look as poor as you can’.

And the patronising sermon went on. ‘If you can live somewhere safer, live somewhere safer. If you can avoid public transport into high risk areas late at night, avoid it. If you can avoid travelling alone, do so.’

He also warned the students that working as a taxi driver or in a late night 7-11 is a risky job.

This is the chief cop in this state telling people your trains aren’t safe, the suburbs you live in aren’t safe, the jobs you have to do aren’t safe.

And seeing that he also claims most of the attacks on Indian students are not racially-motivated but robbery-related that means he’s talking to everybody.

Nobody should take public transport, or wear jewellery, or work as a taxi driver, or live in some suburbs. ‘Try to look as poor as you can’. That sends a great message overseas.

I’m sure the Indian students will love that. They can stay in Mumbai and look poor Mr. Mushroom.

*Maybe the education providers need to introduce a course titled Streetwise 101. Nah..I just think Mr.Overland needs to do a better job!! *


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## Monario (11 February 2010)

So, a few indians get beaten up, one murdered in undefined circumstances and all of a sudden we are a racist country.. Pfffttt....

Anyone with an IQ great than 2.75 can see through the nonsense straight away..

I would love to see the figures for those 3 rough weeks for indian imigrants, Just how many other austrailians and ethnics we assaulted in that time frame? and how many indians have been murdered in Aus. Vs. other nationalities in the last 12 months?

India would have to be one of the most corrupt nations that come to my mind..

One story from india that always jogs me when I think about it is that of forging medicine supplies, I remeber one article about heart medication (for angina) a group of reporters got together and went to a manufacture to ask about forging it, they had a meeting about the supply of the medication, during it it was aked how low purity could be made, they said "we can put as little as 10 percent in if you like, actually we could put none in if u really want to cut production costs" and what about the packaging in particular the hologram " we can replicat that 100% dont worry"..

This is just one story about indias corruptin, and here they are worried about a few students been beat up....

Here is one article in relation, I cant find the one i mentioned but I am still looking...

http://www.india-server.com/news/twenty-per-cent-of-drugs-sold-in-india-1079.html


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## Monario (11 February 2010)

Just for the record, I do not condone any of the "perhaps" racist beatings, but I think India’s government should perhaps look at there own backyard before making such outrageous and potentially damaging statements.

Australia, IMO would have to be the worlds leader in multiculturalism, however what most Australians do not tolerate is non conformance form immigrants, you will find the average Aussie, is not racist, you only need to look at all the riots etc. to see who is at the forefront of these uprisings…

Its time we people of the world left our differences behind us and worked together for the good of humanity…. I know this is a wishful statement, and is likely to never happen, but how nice would it be???


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## Happy (12 February 2010)

Monario said:


> ...
> 
> *Australia, IMO would have to be the worlds leader in multiculturalism*, however what most Australians do not tolerate is non conformance form immigrants, you will find the average Aussie, is not racist, you only need to look at all the riots etc. to see who is at the forefront of these uprisings…
> 
> ....





According to some academics multiculturalism sooner or later will experience explosion of simmering tensions.

Australia is creating a time bomb, and now it is only matter of when.


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## Garpal Gumnut (7 March 2010)

I enclose two examples of Indian Racism.
The first is from the Times of India, reporting on the unfortunate death of the Indian toddler in Melbourne.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/videoshow/5646404.cms



> Indian toddler found dead, Australian police clueless




The second details the disgraceful racism against the Bihar people , a poor Northern Indian State and Culture, looked down upon by other Indians, attacked and vilified, and denied job opportunities in southern states of India,



> After the attacks on Uttar Pradeshi's and Biharis in October 2008, a Punjabi group called the Dal Khalsa, carried banners and placards that read “Punjab for Punjabis” and “Return migrants, Save Punjab”. Dal Khalsa president H.S. Dhami urged the Punjab government to frame rules and evolve a strict migration policy to curb immigration. "We chose this occasion of 42nd anniversary of Punjab Day as we thought it was an appropriate day to air our resentment against the heavy influx of migrants. The migration from Bihar and Uttar Pradesh in large numbers is unwelcome and unacceptable,” Dhami suggested that states should issue permits to curb unchecked influx of migrants.




http://bihar-network.ning.com/forum/topics/antibihari-sentiment-in-india

So before Indian consuls in Australia and the Indian press start mouthing off about racism here (of which I am sure there is some, they should put it in context, as in their own country racist crimes are a hundredfold of that which occurs in Australia.

gg


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## bellenuit (7 March 2010)

I checked out some online Indian newspapers this evening after the news of the arrest of the Indian in relation to the 3 year old's death to see how it was reported. The Times of India just carried the story with little detail. I then looked at how that story was reported over the last day or two and also that of the Indian who caught fire when he tried to set his own car alight. All of the stories had feedback from readers at the end of the articles. I was horrified at the racism the Indian responders expressed towards Australians. Very uninformed in many respects and of a degree that would not be tolerated by our press.


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## Mickel (7 March 2010)

And the latest news regarding the Indian toddler's death in Melbourne is that another Indian (one of 10 or 11) living in the same house but not related has been charged with manslaughter of the toddler tonight.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/03/07/2838854.htm


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## Aussiejeff (8 March 2010)

Mickel said:


> And the latest news regarding the Indian toddler's death in Melbourne is that another Indian (one of 10 or 11) living in the same house but not related has been charged with manslaughter of the toddler tonight.
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/03/07/2838854.htm




To top it off, I believe he is also a cab driver? 

Hmmm.. 

Remember the "cabbie riot" in Melbourne where hundreds of Indian cabbies protested loud and hard against "racist violence" perpetrated by "white Australians"? 

Well, I expect this latest "revelation" of how Indians mistreat each other then instantly blame it on "Ozzie racism" should go down well with some late night cab patrons from now on. 


*NEWS FLASH*

Early morning police news indicates the offender had gained entry to Australia as a student using falsified documents.

Scum.

[size=+4]WHERE ARE THE BLAZING HEADLINES IN INDIA NOW???[/size]


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## UBIQUITOUS (8 March 2010)

Aussiejeff said:


> To top it off, I believe he is also a cab driver?
> 
> Hmmm..
> 
> ...




A young child is dead. No need to celebrate like you've just won the Ashes because an Aussie didn't murder him. SICK taste dude.


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## Julia (8 March 2010)

UBIQUITOUS said:


> A young child is dead. No need to celebrate like you've just won the Ashes because an Aussie didn't murder him. SICK taste dude.




I agree.  I can't begin to imagine the grief and anguish of his parents, or what the child may have gone through prior to his death.


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## tuhin (8 March 2010)

Aussiejeff said:


> To top it off, I believe he is also a cab driver?
> 
> Hmmm..
> 
> ...




SICK


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## chops_a_must (8 March 2010)

Ah well, looks like I lose a coke. 

Had a bet on the parents.


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## Happy (8 March 2010)

Almost pity that Australians are not hard nosed and eager to make demonstration and make big noise about some things as Muslims or Indians do.

We should also demand national apology on Prime Minister level.

But we won’t and as we all know some mud will stick and we will be labelled for many decades to come as racist country. 
Pity, we just forgot how to stand up for ourselves. Probably side effect of lay back, easy going attitude.

If we are so bad, why don’t they all pack up and go to their non-racial country with mere 9 casts and some skin colour driven issues?


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## Trembling Hand (8 March 2010)

Happy said:


> We should also demand national apology on Prime Minister level.




For what??


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## Miner (8 March 2010)

Happy said:


> Almost pity that Australians are not hard nosed and eager to make demonstration and make big noise about some things as Muslims or Indians do.
> 
> We should also demand national apology on Prime Minister level.
> 
> ...




Dear Happy 

A debate is always good so long it considers the spirit and not personal . 

The killing  of any one including a young toddler  is highly sickening. It is simply an act of barbarism and let us not mix it up with racism row. It is more sickening now as the killer used to stay in the same address with the boy and comes from the victim's own nation. A murder is a murder and a criminal act no matter why or who did it.

Now without going into the debate of racism may  I bring your attention to one minor thing as *you have used Muslims or Indians*. Essentially you have  identified Muslims are not  Indians ! I do not blame you or your lack of awareness. 

However for your own understanding please note , India not only the largest democratic country in the world, *it has the second largest Muslim population in the world.* India has true secularism no matter what some fanatics from Mumbai label. 

It is India where 5% of parliament seats are reserved for Christians and 25% or more seats are reserved for people coming from lower caste (Before some one jumps into conclusion on casteism and racisms being  same words). 

India has produced three  Muslim Presidents and all  of them had Ph Ds. India until recently had its Head of Nuclear Science and Atomic Energy occupied by a Muslim. If you do some research on him, you will notice his patriotism for India and feeling as an Indian is more than many Hindus from India. 

A Muslim woman in India has more rights and privileges  than a Muslim woman  has in Saudi Arabia, Iraq  or Pakistan . 

India has 15 written languages and scripts (not coloquial languages) accepted by its constitution. English (even it is in Archaic form since British left 1947) is widely spoken and accepted. See the call centres even we do not like the accent !!

India had a woman PM and now has a woman as President. 

I think lot of the participants in this thread have used the word casteism and racism in the same way. I am not entering into either of the debate  as any *'ism' *is  wrong. 

Bottom line is : a Muslim can be an Indian, an Indian could be a Muslim but neither  all Muslims are Indians, nor all Indians are Muslims.


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## Garpal Gumnut (8 March 2010)

It would appear that all posters would agree that racism is endemic in all countries and that India is no exception.

Unfortunately The Times of India fell into the trap of convenient racist headlines, when the toddler went missing in Melbourne.

After the truth has come out of the alleged perpetrator being Indian their disgraceful headline link 


> "Indian toddler found dead, police clueless



has been changed retrospectively to 


> Indian toddler found dead in Australia, autopsy inconclusive




Let us hope they will be more careful in future in inflaming tensions between a country like Australia which has welcomed many fine Indian migrants and India, a deeply divided country along racial and other lines.

Thankfully no Australian mainstream newspaper would stoop to such populist effluvium and publish such inflammatory comment about a friendly country.

gg


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## gooner (8 March 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> It would appear that all posters would agree that racism is endemic in all countries and that India is no exception.
> 
> Unfortunately The Times of India fell into the trap of convenient racist headlines, when the toddler went missing in Melbourne.
> 
> ...




GG 

Indian English is not the same as proper English (or Australian English). "Clueless" may actually mean that the police do not have clues.  Remember when I was traveling there and asking directions and they would say to me "Can you speak English please"


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## Julia (8 March 2010)

chops_a_must said:


> Ah well, looks like I lose a coke.
> 
> Had a bet on the parents.




I see that your absence has not brought about any modification of your insensitivity.


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## chops_a_must (8 March 2010)

Julia said:


> I see that your absence has not brought about any modification of your insensitivity.




On the contrary I'm very sensitive Julia. Sensitive to ticklish spots, fire, glass sharp objects etc. etc.


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## Garpal Gumnut (9 March 2010)

gooner said:


> GG
> 
> Indian English is not the same as proper English (or Australian English). "Clueless" may actually mean that the police do not have clues.  Remember when I was traveling there and asking directions and they would say to me "Can you speak English please"




Thats a reasonable statement gooner, I'll check it out and apologise if I'm incorrect. Thanks for the wise comment.

gg


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## Happy (9 March 2010)

Miner said:


> ...
> India has produced three  Muslim Presidents and all  of them had *Ph Ds*. ....




Wander why then first comment on any death or attack on them is labelled as race motivated even before investigation is concluded?

This crap should be stopped as it is highly damaging.

On the other hand if it will make them go or not come, we will have more room for refugees.


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## Julia (9 March 2010)

Happy said:


> On the other hand if it will make them go or not come, we will have more room for refugees.



Why would you want the Indians to "go or not come"?

As far as I can tell, they are industrious, courteous and doing their best to make a real contribution to this country.  If they have come here legally, and  largely to acquire an education, then best of luck to them.  It's better than asylum seekers who scuttle their boats in the hope of acquiring a free pass to Australia.


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## Happy (11 March 2010)

Julia said:


> Why would you want the Indians to "go or not come"?
> 
> ...




I leave it up to them to decide.



http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/1025878/gurshan-knocked-out-by-opening-door



> Gurshan 'knocked out by opening door'
> 05:30 AEST Thu Mar 11 2010 6 hours 3 minutes ago
> By ninemsn staff
> 
> ...




From one extreme conclusion like racism to another smelling like unbelievable story.

Wander why whoever came up with racist comment isn’t taken to court for defamation?


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## UBIQUITOUS (11 March 2010)

Happy said:


> .
> 
> Wander why whoever came up with racist comment isn’t taken to court for defamation?




Great idea Australia sues an Indian journo for defamation of nation's  character. What do you propose as a penalty? 1000 rupees to be divided among 22million Australians. Do you think we can all squeeze into the courthouse? 

You're funny if nothing else! Thanks for the tears of laughter.


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## pixel (11 March 2010)

Julia said:


> Why would you want the Indians to "go or not come"?
> 
> As far as I can tell, they are industrious, courteous and doing their best to make a real contribution to this country.  If they have come here legally, and  largely to acquire an education, then best of luck to them.  It's better than asylum seekers who scuttle their boats in the hope of acquiring a free pass to Australia.



Well put, Julia;
in every sufficiently large group of people you have any character trait distributed in a bell curve: A few saints, a few sinners, and the majority fair to middling in between. To draw conclusions from the behaviour of a few individuals, and generalise them across a race, is stupid in the extreme.
But it sells papers, excites emotions, and lures the trolls out of the woodwork, peddling their stupidity with religious zeal...

Is it worth speaking out against it? I hope it is - but wouldn't bet on it succeeding to a large extent.


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## disarray (11 March 2010)

pixel said:


> in every sufficiently large group of people you have any character trait distributed in a bell curve: A few saints, a few sinners, and the majority fair to middling in between.




what if that character trait is criminality / extremism? 



			
				pixel said:
			
		

> To draw conclusions from the behaviour of a few individuals, and generalise them across a race, is stupid in the extreme.




agreed, but how about in the case of religion / philosophy? if society says its ok to cut peoples hearts out to appease the sun god then does this excuse the individuals behaviour?


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## Julia (11 March 2010)

Happy said:


> On the other hand if it will make them go or not come, we will have more room for refugees.






Happy said:


> I leave it up to them to decide.




Your second comment is at odds with your first which clearly suggests you have a preference for Indians to make way for refugees.

I strongly dislike generalisations about anything, but when it's about a whole race of people it's especially unpleasant.

And btw, Happy, I think you mean "wonder" where you say "wander".
"Wander" is to roam.
Your own use of English does sometimes make me wonder if English is not in fact your own first language.


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## awg (11 March 2010)

rofl....check the chat sidebar on the Cricket website.

http://www.cricbuzz.com/lc

There is a ball-by-ball update of the Oz v NZ 50 over-game, and in the chat sidebar various Indian, Australian and Pakistani fans are racially vilifying each other and their respective nations in a very unsavoury, but quite entertaining manner


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## Fishbulb (18 March 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> The thread is about racism in India.
> 
> *My premise *is that racism in India is very very bad, in fact worse than in Australia.
> 
> ...




And mine is that you're posting reactionary statements . 

And if the water analogy went over your head then I can't help you there.


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## Garpal Gumnut (18 March 2010)

Fishbulb said:


> And mine is that you're posting reactionary statements .
> 
> And if the water analogy went over your head then I can't help you there.




As your mate Pauline Hanson would say Fishbulb, please explain.

gg


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## Fishbulb (22 March 2010)

I think it's a little obvious as to the timing of this thread to go into an explanation. 

Re Pauline Hanson - she may not be everyone's cup o tea re her policies, but she was treated rather poorly I think. Thrown in jail and turned into a pariah for her opinions. Not good.


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## Boggo (25 July 2010)

*Re: India: Economy & Markets*

The hypocrisy of India that they kill between 5000 and 7000 people a year between dowry killings and family fueds and then they make an international event out of the killing of a student in Melbourne because he came from a "respected" (read rich) family.

The life of a poor female that has been married off against her will to a family in India is just as valuable as that of a student in Melbourne.


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