# Next Election - Gillard or Abbott?



## Aussiejeff (24 June 2010)

At this moment in time, who would you vote for?


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## wayneL (24 June 2010)

I'd even vote for Johnny Rotten (Howard) now.

Thank #### I don't have to hear that voice (Julia Dullard) very often.

Ugh.


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## RazzaDazzla (24 June 2010)

my 

Labor will get WALLOPED in NSW and Federal elections. Their excuse will then be; "The people of NSW/Australia weren't accepting of a female Premier/Prime Minister"

Get rid of them as quickly as possible for the sake of NSW and for Australia!


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## Putty7 (24 June 2010)

New face, same cronies except for Rudd.

Although Rudd will wear the blame for all of Labors recent woes the same crew with a lack of business experience is still in charge of the Australian economy, it may be enough to get them a second term if it fools the greater majority but not a lot has changed as they were all in boots deep with the fiascos that have stuffed Australia.


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## nomore4s (24 June 2010)

It appears poor Juila isn't very popular on this forum.

I do find it amusing though that no matter who is in power the same sort of whinging goes on.

To me they are all pretty much the same, imo it's the system that causes them all to become essentially clones with only very minor differences.


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## wayneL (24 June 2010)

nomore4s said:


> It appears poor Juila isn't very popular on this forum.
> 
> I do find it amusing though that no matter who is in power the same sort of whinging goes on.
> 
> To me they are all pretty much the same, imo it's the system that causes them all to become essentially clones with only very minor differences.




Yep, and whingeing about the malodorous cretins in gu'mint is cathartic.


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## Putty7 (24 June 2010)

nomore4s said:


> It appears poor Juila isn't very popular on this forum.
> 
> I do find it amusing though that no matter who is in power the same sort of whinging goes on.
> 
> To me they are all pretty much the same, imo it's the system that causes them all to become essentially clones with only very minor differences.




The two party system is antiquated 4's as you point out, not much to vote for either way at the moment with no real leadership standing out on either side, you are voting for the lesser of the two evils which is disturbing in itself.

(Good win on the weekend by the way)


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## DB008 (24 June 2010)

nomore4s said:


> I do find it amusing though that no matter who is in power the same sort of whinging goes on.
> 
> To me they are all pretty much the same, imo it's the system that causes them all to become essentially clones with only very minor differences.




I agree. The more l look at politics, the more stuffed up it is one way or another. Even if a political party who is in wants to do change something that might actually do good for the nation, it can get blocked by a number of ways. Then deals have to be done to get the votes to get that bill through. So, it becomes a "help me, I'll help you" type of scenario. When in fact, the people that voted that particular party in, might be opposed to whatever deal a party might be doing behind closed doors to get that bill through. 

The system is flawed to start with. Either you have "democracy" or "communism". Both as bad as each other. Can't win.  

eg;
I always wondered, why in Australia they haven't passed a bill stating, by the year "insert year here", all new "house and land packages" must have solar power/solar hot water or some sort of "green technology". Wouldn't that create a massive "green" industry and technology would boom in this great country. At the moment, L.A. and l think Japan and China are leading the solar and alternative technology front. With the amount of sunlight that we receive in this country, we should be at the forefront in some form or another?


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## Aussiejeff (24 June 2010)

> *Australia will go to the polls within months, Julia Gillard has announced.*
> 
> 24.06.2010 03:48 PM
> 
> ...



http://www.thebull.com.au/articles/a/12320-election-to-come-in-months.html

"Within months" means??? 1 to 12?

Hmmm.

At least she is not moving into the Lodge unless properly elected as PM. A tick for that.


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## nioka (24 June 2010)

Aussiejeff said:


> At this moment in time, who would you vote for?




Mickey Mouse.

Or Felix the cat. At least he thinks outside the square.


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## moXJO (24 June 2010)

nioka said:


> Mickey Mouse.
> 
> Or Felix the cat. At least he thinks outside the square.




Whats your thoughts as a labor voter on all this nioka?


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## nioka (24 June 2010)

moXJO said:


> Whats your thoughts as a labor voter on all this nioka?




First of all I am not a labor voter. I did vote Labor last time to get rid of Howard. I would vote Liberal for Turnbull but not for the sleezy Abbott. So Mickey mouse is my first choice now and my vote at this stage could be a mickey mouse one.


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## moXJO (24 June 2010)

nioka said:


> First of all I am not a labor voter. I did vote Labor last time to get rid of Howard. I would vote Liberal for Turnbull but not for the sleezy Abbott. So Mickey mouse is my first choice now and my vote at this stage could be a mickey mouse one.




oops sorry nioka thought you were a rusted on, then remembered your turnbull comment from before.


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## wayneL (24 June 2010)

nioka said:


> First of all I am not a labor voter....
> 
> ...I would vote Liberal for Turnbull....




But voting Turnbull is de-facto Labor. He ain't no true Lib.


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## nulla nulla (24 June 2010)

A liberated liberal then?


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## tayser (24 June 2010)

The Liberals have proved that they still haven't moved beyond the technophobic bunch of sh*th*cks that they were under Howard and have vowed to kill of the NBN if they get elected.

YEAH, real smart - let's cancel a project that's going to support the industry sector that is the biggest employer of Australians by an overwhelming majority: the services industry, and not to mention has the potential for enormous innovation and the opening of a whole new sector of the economy that could one day be as valuable as the resources sector.  But wait, let's pander to the miners saying oh poor them, Krudd wants to tax something that the country's never going to see again, how ever will those poor dears cope? BAH!

There's nothing worse than GOOD POLICY potentially being canned all because the opposition were unable to think of it themselves.

Plus, I don't like lycra-clad religious nutjobs.  

Gillard.


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## JTLP (24 June 2010)

tayser said:


> The Liberals have proved that they still haven't moved beyond the technophobic bunch of sh*th*cks that they were under Howard and have vowed to kill of the NBN if they get elected.
> 
> YEAH, real smart - let's cancel a project that's going to support the industry sector that is the biggest employer of Australians by an overwhelming majority: the services industry, and not to mention has the potential for enormous innovation and the opening of a whole new sector of the economy that could one day be as valuable as the resources sector.  But wait, let's pander to the miners saying oh poor them, Krudd wants to tax something that the country's never going to see again, how ever will those poor dears cope? oh f*ck off.
> 
> ...




LOL! Because a "Super Profits Tax" was just such a fantastic idea and well received by everybody. And it wasn't hurting anybody either. WINNERS ALL ROUND!

All Labor does is spend YOUR money then tax profitable industries to fix mistakes.

Wash. Rinse. Repeat.


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## Julia (24 June 2010)

Aussiejeff said:


> http://www.thebull.com.au/articles/a/12320-election-to-come-in-months.html
> 
> "Within months" means??? 1 to 12?
> 
> ...



AJ, she said on the 7.30 Report this evening that the election will definitely be held in 2010.
I think she will want it as soon as possible in order to capitalise on the euphoria surrounding her elevation to PM and before she actually has to prove herself.

Yes, agree that she is being sensitive and very decent about saying she has no interest in moving into the Lodge until she has earned the job in her own right, plus she noted the Rudd's have a son at school in Canberra.
Ten out of ten on this piece of courtesy.


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## Calliope (24 June 2010)

Nothing has changed. Kerry O'Brien interviewed Gillard tonight and he threw a few curly ones at her trying to pin her on her treachery to Rudd. She deflected all questions with a combination of mock sincerity and girlish innocence. He never laid a glove on her. 

She is a very slippery customer, and Abbott should be very worried.  

Lindsay Tanner is going to chuck it in. This will give Gillard the opportunity to reward Bill Shorten with a Cabinet position. They have probably already made a deal.


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## wayneL (24 June 2010)

nulla nulla said:


> A liberated liberal then?



An abberation. The man is a social democrat.


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## Garpal Gumnut (24 June 2010)

Gillard will whack Abbott in the Election.
I am so glad I'm still a member of our local ALP Branch as I have some important projects I need to get going in 2011.
Anyone who supports the Liberals after these recent events needs their head examined. 
I have sent Julia an email congratulating her and wishing her the very best of hair days right through the next few months. 
I am probably one of the few people on ASF who has never said anything really nasty about Julia. 
I do like Rangas.
She is a strong woman and will lead us all in to a new prosperity. Most Lefties only do it to get ahead anyways.

gg


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## Broadway (24 June 2010)

I think Australia voted for Kevin Rudd and not for the labor party.
Otherwise they would have voted in Labor in the prior decade.
Hence most Australians will feel annoyed that their elected PM was betrayed by his own party, when things got a little tough.
Abbott will get in but the margin will be close.
Big swings to independants.


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## Garpal Gumnut (24 June 2010)

Broadway said:


> I think Australia voted for Kevin Rudd and not for the labor party.
> Otherwise they would have voted in Labor in the prior decade.
> Hence most Australians will feel annoyed that their elected PM was betrayed by his own party, when things got a little tough.
> Abbott will get in but the margin will be close.
> Big swings to independants.




Julia will get many women voting for her.
The ALP will cruel Abbott in the advertising.
And the Libs have been wrongfooted, as the ALP were when Turnbull was ousted.

gg


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## Smurf1976 (25 June 2010)

DB008 said:


> eg;
> I always wondered, why in Australia they haven't passed a bill stating, by the year "insert year here", all new "house and land packages" must have solar power/solar hot water or some sort of "green technology". Wouldn't that create a massive "green" industry and technology would boom in this great country. At the moment, L.A. and l think Japan and China are leading the solar and alternative technology front. With the amount of sunlight that we receive in this country, we should be at the forefront in some form or another?



This has effectively already been done by state governments from 2012 onwards with it already being in force in some states. It's not perfect by any means, but the states have done _something_.

Back to the original topic... Abbott isn't what I'd call "Liberal", he's outright conservative and as such there's no prospect of me voting "Liberal" whilst he remains leader. 

That leaves Labor, Greens and any independents who happen to be standing.

I ain't no hard line greenie, but I'm sure not conservative either. If Gillard does reasonably, I'll likely vote Labor as the best of a bad bunch.


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## BrightGreenGlow (26 June 2010)

Majority of WA and QLD will not vote Labor due to mining tax and well QLD is still being sold off by Labor. Surely ALP will not get another chance to wreck things.


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## easylikesunday (26 June 2010)

I think I'll vote for Warwick Capper.. like I did last year.


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## Calliope (26 June 2010)

BrightGreenGlow said:


> Majority of WA and QLD will not vote Labor due to mining tax and well QLD is still being sold off by Labor. Surely ALP will not get another chance to wreck things.




The Brisbane Courier-Mail's Galaxy poll is not good news for Abbott;



> Labor's new leader has also immediately boosted the party's electoral stocks, with a rapid four-point bounce since the federal Budget to bring Labor's primary vote to 41 per cent. The Coalition is on 42 per cent.
> 
> On the all-important two-party-preferred vote, Labor has an election-winning lead of 52 per cent to the Coalition's 48 per cent




http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...g-to-galaxy-poll/story-e6freon6-1225884477277


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## JimBob (26 June 2010)

Abbott hasnt had to do much in recent times, letting Rudd self destruct has mean all he had to do was keep his mouth shut and he may have won the election.  Gillard will be a much tougher opponent depending on whether she can distance herself from the stuff ups of the past two years.  A quick deal on the mining tax and she will be off to a good start as PM, depending on what she then does to plug the resulting hole in the budget.


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## ginar (26 June 2010)

Abbott will have to stop the RSPT given his rhetoric about it , Rudd spent the cash and that damage is done , his new tax was to pay for his follies , at least he had a plan to get it covered without taxing the people directly . Now i'm definately no Rudd supporter but the damage done to govt coffers is now history with not much to be gained dwelling on it . What worries me is where Abbott will get the money from (assuming he won election ) now that he is almost definately going to scuttle RSPT if he gains power . It wont be easy to do without directly taxing the " working families " . I'm a little worried about voting for Abbott without a policy that gives some guidance as to how he goes about it , not holding my breath on that one . I was likely to vote libs just to get rid of Rudd but now i'm not certain . Will have to wait to see what policy gets rolled out by libs ... My thinking at the moment is no policy = no vote for libs . Election will happen sooner than later imo so the libs better get busy although i'm sure they wont . If the libs get in i can see GST getting raised and that worries me , rather see miners paying for it myself . 2010 is going to be a historic year in politics and i dont think we've seen the last of the controversy .


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## springhill (26 June 2010)

ginar said:


> Abbott will have to stop the RSPT given his rhetoric about it , Rudd spent the cash and that damage is done , his new tax was to pay for his follies , at least he had a plan to get it covered without taxing the people directly . Now i'm definately no Rudd supporter but the damage done to govt coffers is now history with not much to be gained dwelling on it . What worries me is where Abbott will get the money from (assuming he won election ) now that he is almost definately going to scuttle RSPT if he gains power . It wont be easy to do without directly taxing the " working families " . I'm a little worried about voting for Abbott without a policy that gives some guidance as to how he goes about it , not holding my breath on that one . I was likely to vote libs just to get rid of Rudd but now i'm not certain . Will have to wait to see what policy gets rolled out by libs ... My thinking at the moment is no policy = no vote for libs . Election will happen sooner than later imo so the libs better get busy although i'm sure they wont . If the libs get in i can see GST getting raised and that worries me , rather see miners paying for it myself . 2010 is going to be a historic year in politics and i dont think we've seen the last of the controversy .




ginar, your post is a little suspicious in my eyes. If we rearrange the letters in your nick it spells RANGI, a clever, yet almost too clever derivative of RANGA. Come on, Julia, 'fess up, it's you isn't it?


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## Putty7 (26 June 2010)

I notice Mr Sheen is going to be back on the front bench, after Swann and Gillard knifed him in the back with Union support surely Julia would have been better with Rudd out of the picture and Swann to follow suit after the election, maybe a deal done for Rudd to step aside. 

I also saw on the news Rudd was going to water down the RSPT, I would have thought this would have been an impossible position for Rudd to enter into given his stance for it, seems like a cover story to get the show rolling in the right direction again with Julia at the helm. 

The new mini series "Hawke" is also aptly timed to give the Labor faithful a hint of past glory days leading to the election. Any thoughts GG.


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## Calliope (26 June 2010)

I think we can be reasonably sure that after todays jump in the polls that Parliament will not sit again before the next election, which will probably be in August.

Gillard will want to catch the wave before it peters out.


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## Lopalong (26 June 2010)

wayneL said:


> I'd even vote for Johnny Rotten (Howard) now.
> Thank #### I don't have to hear that voice (Julia Dullard) very often.
> Ugh.






If your location is as you state in your profile _and nowhere does it indicate that you are in fact an Australian, or entitled to vote in Australian Politics?_ Then one would have to question your real concern for Australian politics, or question whether or not you are simply trolling the subject for personal reasons?


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## Lopalong (26 June 2010)

ginar said:


> Abbott will have to stop the RSPT given his rhetoric about it.





You are aware of course that the *RSPT* has *nothing* to do with bringing the budget back to surplus in three years time?


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## wayneL (26 June 2010)

Lopalong said:


> If your location is as you state in your profile _and nowhere does it indicate that you are in fact an Australian, or entitled to vote in Australian Politics?_ Then one would have to question your real concern for Australian politics, or question whether or not you are simply trolling the subject for personal reasons?



I am an Australian citizen and a long time member of this forum noob. Other members of ASF know this.

It's not a bad idea to get to know people before criticizing.


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## Garpal Gumnut (26 June 2010)

I think it is extremely important that one picks the winner.

Or at least gives the impression to the winner that one has voted for he or she.

That is all that matters.

Folk sometimes confuse ideology with power. Howard had power and lost it in his last year. Rudd never had power, just popularity with the common people who drive Camrys and Pious'.

Both Gillard and Abbott have power in their parties atm.

I reckon Julia will win, so I'm switching to her, but if she loses I'll let Tony know I was 100% behind him.

Otherwise you can end up losing out, or ending up in a gulag, or having a freeway put through your front garden. 

It pays to pick the winner and I think Gillard has played the last ace in the pack, and deserves to win.

gg


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## bunyip (26 June 2010)

Gillard will most likely win the coming election. 
Why? Because she'll get an initial surge of support from many foolish people who are too dim-witted to comprehend that she was instrumental in the monumental stuff ups of the Rudd government. Gillard will be well aware of this coming support, and she'll time the election to take advantage of it before it fizzles out.

Let's be very clear about Rudd's failings - he didn't act alone, his policies and decisions were made and implemented with the help of his close colleagues Gillard, Swan, Tanner and others.
The amazing mismanagement and money-wasting of the school buildings project can be put down to the person in charge of it - Julia Gillard. I would have thought it was a simple matter to ensure that builders quotes were realistic before they were accepted by the government. But even this simple task was beyond the capacity of the incompetent Gillard.
If the woman can't even handle something that simple, why would anyone think she's fit to handle the far more challenging issues that she'll have to deal with as PM?

Don't be fooled by our new PM - the same incompetent people, the same pathetic mentality, the same lack of  business acumen, are still part and parcel of the Gillard government just as they were in the Rudd government.

Let's vote this government out of power while we have the chance - another term of these incompetent clowns would be almost too much to bear.


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## sails (26 June 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I think it is extremely important that one picks the winner....




GG, that might work in a popularity contest, but this is about the future of our country.  

I don't doubt that Julia is highly talented and good at leadership.  But what will she lead Australia into over a three year period?  More of the same when she was deputy? More debt?


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## Julia (26 June 2010)

Calliope said:


> I think we can be reasonably sure that after todays jump in the polls that Parliament will not sit again before the next election, which will probably be in August.
> 
> Gillard will want to catch the wave before it peters out.



I agree.  The euphoria surrounding her at present is her best chance of the electorate overlooking or ignoring that she was 100% involved in the decisions made, in addition to overseeing the ultra rorting BER.



bunyip said:


> Gillard will most likely win the coming election.
> Why? Because she'll get an initial surge of support from many foolish people who are too dim-witted to comprehend that she was instrumental in the monumental stuff ups of the Rudd government. Gillard will be well aware of this coming support, and she'll time the election to take advantage of it before it fizzles out.



As above, I agree she will win as things stand at present.  But not necessarily just because you think so many Australians are foolish.
Many of them, myself included, are frankly reluctant to vote for Tony Abbott because (a) I don't really believe he is up to running the country, and further I don't see his alternative ministry as being up to carrying him because they're pretty much devoid of talent  themselves, and (b) He is way too far to the right/conservative, has some stupidly old fashioned ideas, and will eschew necessary infrastructure and services just to get the budget back into surplus.
I agree with the person who suggested he will probably raise the GST.
I'd rather see the miners paying more than seeing that section of our society who are already struggling be burdened with a higher GST.

Just watching Mr Abbott on the 7.30 Report last night, after Ms Gillard's polished and personable performance earlier, he was just terrible.  Ums and ahs everywhere, looked shifty, couldn't answer questions with any credibility, etc.


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## JimBob (26 June 2010)

Lopalong said:


> You are aware of course that the *RSPT* has *nothing* to do with bringing the budget back to surplus in three years time?




I think the way Rudd sold the idea of a RSPT made it a lot to do with the budget surplus.  His unwillingness to negotiate meant we didnt get to hear much debate about the merits of a RSPT, only strong opposition from the mining industry.  Negotiating the terms of their tax when it is already factored into their projected budget means they will have a large hole to plug if they want to keep the budget in surplus in three years time.


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## IFocus (26 June 2010)

Julia said:


> Just watching Mr Abbott on the 7.30 Report last night, after Ms Gillard's polished and personable performance earlier, he was just terrible.  Ums and ahs everywhere, looked shifty, couldn't answer questions with any credibility, etc.




Abbott really struggled and it wasn't a good look  in fact Kerry let him off the hook a couple of times I wonder if Malcolm is a chance?


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## Logique (27 June 2010)

Putty7 said:


> I also saw on the news Rudd was going to water down the RSPT, I would have thought this would have been an impossible position for Rudd to enter into given his stance for it, seems like a cover story to get the show rolling in the right direction again with Julia at the helm.



The RSPT will be watered down by about as much as a small cube of ice in a glass of scotch. The miners have been conned to stop their anti-tax advertising, to give the ALP clear air for the election.

The ALP is stringing them along until after the election, when (if Labor wins)  they really will be screwed. Or is it perhaps that the miners have decided that Gillard will win, as Anna Bligh won in QLD (so QLD'ers - how's that working out for you!).


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## explod (27 June 2010)

> The RSPT will be watered down by about as much as a small cube of ice in a glass of scotch. The miners have been conned to stop their anti-tax advertising, to give the ALP clear air for the election




How do you know this, care to elaborate?



> The ALP is stringing them along until after the election, when (if Labor wins) they really will be screwed. Or is it perhaps that the miners have decided that Gillard will win, as Anna Bligh won in QLD (so QLD'ers - how's that working out for you!).




This is also open for debate.   Under Hawke industrial peace was the best on record as he had the union andbusiness connections to meet at the table for a better deal all round.  The workers and industry win win together.

Gillard may well present such opportunities.  So Logique it is illogical to make calls on it yet in my humble view


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## Julia (27 June 2010)

IFocus said:


> Abbott really struggled and it wasn't a good look  in fact Kerry let him off the hook a couple of times I wonder if Malcolm is a chance?



Tony Abbott turned in a much better performance on "The Insiders" this morning.
Malcolm?  Personally I don't like him.  He is much less genuine than Abbott, but he's at least socially reasonably progressive.  He's all about Malcolm, though, and would imo just as happily convert to Labor if he thought it would advance his personal ambitions.


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## Logique (27 June 2010)

G'day explod. 
Julia helps me out by mentioning ABC TV 'Insiders' this morning, where Abbott again expounded his belief that the ALP merely delays the inevitable on the RSPT by this advertising embargo and promise to negotiate.

I hope someone will help me with the source of the following quote, a US President I think,  'They do what they do because they are what they are'. This is now an ALP government with a leftist, union-backed PM.  Making the boss pay for making a profit is an article of faith in this ideology. The ALP will not let the RSPT go lightly.   

*I'm just saying that on the RSPT, I'd sooner believe David Murray (Future Fund and formerly CEO of the CBA) and Peter Costello (greatest Treasurer ever), than an unelected (by the people) ex-employee of the Communist Party*. 

More chance of being full forward for the Bulldogs than running for PM, so she said , and not very long ago either. It's about credibility and nothing else.


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## Logique (27 June 2010)

Julia said:


> Malcolm?  Personally I don't like him.  He is much less genuine than Abbott, but he's at least socially reasonably progressive.  He's all about Malcolm, though, and would imo just as happily convert to Labor if he thought it would advance his personal ambitions.



Good summation. I would think he was a close student of the Gillard coup last week.


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## explod (27 June 2010)

> Julia helps me out by mentioning ABC TV 'Insiders' this morning, where Abbott again expounded his belief that the ALP merely delays the inevitable on the RSPT by this advertising embargo and promise to negotiate.




Yep, saw Abbott this morning.  He espouses no substance or alternatives, just the counter echo of someone destined to stay in opposition on current performance.   The ALP have put forward an idea that looks like needing a lot of massage perhaps.  As said, too early to call them on that one.



> I hope someone will help me with the source of the following quote, a US President I think, 'They do what they do because they are what they are'. This is now an ALP government with a leftist, union-backed PM. Making the boss pay for making a profit is an article of faith in this ideology. The ALP will not let the RSPT go lightly.




Little one liners rarely contribute at all.   We used to speak of "Pig Ion Bob"  Prime Minister Bob Menzies who was doing deals behind closed doors with the Japanese (during ww2 with cheap ion.   He used the term reds under the bed, big deal.  Did nothing but divide people in Australia for generations.  

Working together for the good of all is what to look for.



> I'm just saying that on the RSPT, I'd sooner believe David Murray (Future Fund and formerly CEO of the CBA) and Peter Costello (greatest Treasurer ever), than an unelected (by the people) ex-employee of the Communist Party.




Costello's status could be argued against facts of history, but ours and my answer is not relevant to the exchange here.   Please spell out the link to the Communist Party.  Gillard was elected to Parliament, Alp rules allow for certain matters of proceedure in the same way that Howard was exclusive in his rule of Cabinet to his own detriment in the end.   Your statement does not contribute to the discussion.  Past performance of all in this instance is of little indication to where we may be heading.



> More chance of being full forward for the Bulldogs than running for PM, so she said , and not very long ago either. It's about credibility and nothing else.




It is fairly apparent that at that time she did not intend to challenge.  An absolute temper outburst by Krudd, bordering on assualt and a refusal to take note of the obvious on polling indicators tipped the bucket on himself.

As a strong follower and member of the Greens I respond with bemusement.  The one good thing I seem to be picking up from Gillard is an intention to slow the expansionist policies of the past 30 years.  If that means the mining companies go elsewhere then that may well be a good thing for the prosperity of future generations.


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## Surly (27 June 2010)

Every news report I see on Gillard sees me one step closer to believing her being the Anti-Rudd.

This leaves me a little confused as to where Abbott will have to go as she now agrees with everything she disagreed with vehemently a few weeks ago 

cheers
Surly


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## drsmith (27 June 2010)

A test of the extent to which the ALP wishes to maintain a socialist agenda under Julia Gillard will be the detail of a revised RSPT and the extent to which detail is provided before the election.

As for Tony Abbott's recent interview on the 7:30 report, I thought he stuck to his script better than in the past. While not a polished performance by any means, he managed to avoid the appearance of being aggressive and that at least was a positive. One on one with Julia Gillard will be a tougher test of that however.


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## trainspotter (27 June 2010)

explod said:


> Working together for the good of all is what to look for.
> 
> Please spell out the link to the Communist Party.
> 
> As a strong follower and member of the Greens I respond with bemusement.  The one good thing I seem to be picking up from Gillard is an intention to slow the expansionist policies of the past 30 years.  If that means the mining companies go elsewhere then that may well be a good thing for the prosperity of future generations.




In fact, she was on the management committee of this far-Left group, which was formed by former *communists *to help them join Labor, and she stayed there even when she was well into her law career. 

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...aldsun/comments/why_hasnt_gillard_been_honest

JULIA GILLARD: Tony, it's 2007 and I'm a 46-year-old woman. What Peter Costello is referring to is more than 20 years ago when I was in my 20s. I was a full-time university student and I had a part-time job for an organisation called Socialist Forum, which was a sort of debating society. It ultimately amalgamated with the Fabian society, which of course is a long-running ideas and debating group in Australian politics and indeed in British politics before Australian politics. I've worked in the cleric and administrative work.

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2007/s2062452.htm

Hmmmmmmmm ....... Green is the new RED?

Slow the expansion so the future can prosper? How is it then the mining companies are willing to negotiate on the RSPT to ensure the future of the country? If there was not enough mineral wealth for all to share then she should have stuck to her/Labor guns and killed it dead. QUICKLY.

THE mining industry is hoping new Prime Minister Julia Gillard will move quickly to open genuine negotiations on the resources tax. 

Industry sources said today they would be pushing to meet Ms Gillard and her deputy Wayne Swan in the next week, as Rio Tinto iron ore boss Sam Walsh said the original tax proposal was now "dead".

Sarah-Jane Tasker From: The Australian June 25, 2010 1:39PM 

http://www.perthnow.com.au/business...er-resources-tax/story-e6frg2qu-1225884367792


----------



## explod (27 June 2010)

trainspotter said:


> Hmmmmmmmm ....... Green is the ...ithout thought of the good that may go there.


----------



## Julia (27 June 2010)

explod said:


> Working together for the good of all is what to look for.



Ah, Explod, you are such an idealist.
Politicians work for themselves and their own personal careers.



> Your statement does not contribute to the discussion.  Past performance of all in this instance is of little indication to where we may be heading.



I don't think you can simply dismiss past behaviour, attitudes and expressed views.  You are effectively not applying the same standards to Labor Party people as those you apply to e.g. Tony Abbott.
So far, as Surly (I think?) has said, Ms Gillard is doing pretty much an about face on everything she was apparently a party to under Rudd.  Too soon to make a judgement, I guess.  What she does about the RSPT will be defining of what she is really about.


----------



## Sdajii (27 June 2010)

I'm not going to be silly enough to claim I know for sure, but my tip is that Gillard will win quite comfortably. I'm sure she'll get the majority of female voters just because she is female, and these days I don't think as many guys are as sexist as they once were, so they'll probably be less averted to voting for a woman. Everyone hated Abbott, everyone hated Rudd, Gillard is a relatively new face with less build up resentment aimed at her. She is also extremely quick-witted.

Let's not kid ourselves; Joe Average isn't going to vote for the person who is the most capable, they're going to vote for the person who works their charm. The average voter is a moron, and elections come down to a popularity contest and the ability to debate, not the ability to run a country or anything like that, not primarily anyway.

I don't think we have a good option to vote for (I'm putting that so lightly it's absurd), and Gillard is possibly the lesser of the evils, although I'm not sure about which party is the greater evil. I'm guessing I'm going to go mad listening to that bogan voice for the next few years. We're screwed whichever way it goes, although the difference in the way we're screwed might differ slightly more than usual depending on who gets in.

There isn't a better option available, but gee, I hate democracy.


----------



## Putty7 (28 June 2010)

Sdajii said:


> I'm not going to be silly enough to claim I know for sure, but my tip is that Gillard will win quite comfortably. I'm sure she'll get the majority of female voters just because she is female, and these days I don't think as many guys are as sexist as they once were, so they'll probably be less averted to voting for a woman. Everyone hated Abbott, everyone hated Rudd, Gillard is a relatively new face with less build up resentment aimed at her. She is also extremely quick-witted.
> 
> Let's not kid ourselves; Joe Average isn't going to vote for the person who is the most capable, they're going to vote for the person who works their charm. The average voter is a moron, and elections come down to a popularity contest and the ability to debate, not the ability to run a country or anything like that, not primarily anyway.
> 
> ...




Its funny you mention Joe average Sdajji, I was in the local ANZ during question time (it was on the idiot box above the tellers), it was pretty quiet, 2 tellers, a guy at the business counter and myself, all 3 of them agreed with themselves that it was sad that Rudd went and that they didn't think he had done anything wrong and could not understand why Labor had gotten rid of him. One thing that stood out was they were not happy because in their mindset they had voted for Rudd not Gillard and it was appalling that this could happen without their vote. Most know that you vote for the party but it is usually based on the puppet personality sitting at the top as you say.

Gillard and Labor will want to move to an election quickly, they have caught the Libs with their pants down and have to get things rolling before to much mud is thrown, Abbott was a good counter for Rudd and considering Rudds massive popularity when he entered the arena he did his job well, my question would be will they stay with Abbott or will they throw the cat amongst the pidgeons before the election themselves.


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (28 June 2010)

Liberal to win and clean up the damage.


----------



## pilots (28 June 2010)

What do you all think of the poll at the start of this thread, here in Perth most people are now real happy that the dud is gone, but NOT happy with the red head.


----------



## Aussiejeff (28 June 2010)

pilots said:


> What do you all think of the poll at the start of this thread, here in Perth most people are now real happy that the dud is gone, but NOT happy with the red head.




Certainly interesting to see the massive difference in poll results between most of the 'mainstream' newspapers & this small sample. 

For example, the 25-27 Jun Newspoll in The Australian proposes -

- a primary vote result of *40%* Coalition, *42%* Labor, *10%* Greens & *8%* Others. 

- an adjusted two party preferred result of *47.3%* Coalition & *52.7%* Labor. 

However, those proposed figures are entirely based on factoring in the average preference flows from the minor parties during the Nov 2007 election, which as we now know (to our chagrin) were strongly in favour of KRudd Labor. I think it is a pretty big stretch by The Australian pollsters to use those strongly Labor biased preference flows to adjust THIS poll's primary vote. With a more reasonable 50/50 split, the best result Labor could hope for would be a 51% to 49% victory. I still think at this stage it is unlikely so many disaffected Labor "fence sitters" would return to Labor before finding out what Julia Gillard REALLY has to offer?

In that case, a 50% Labor, 50% Coalition split is definitely on the cards, or even something as bad for Labor as a 49% Labor, 51% Coalition loss (my best guess at this point in time). 

So, the $Million question as to why all these mainstream media polls are jumping on Julia's New Labor bandwagon as far as "factoring" or "manipulating" their poll figures is concerned, you would really have to ask them!

Same goes for their Q of "Who do you think would make the better Prime Minister?"

Our Poll - Approx. *60%* Abbott, *30%* Gillard, *10%* Neither
Newspoll - *29%* Abbott, *53%* Gillard, *18%* Neither

Go figure!


----------



## Wysiwyg (28 June 2010)

Sdajii said:


> We're screwed whichever way it goes, although the difference in the way we're screwed might differ slightly more than usual depending on who gets in.
> 
> There isn't a better option available, but gee, I hate democracy.




I'm interested to know what exactly the 'government' does to screw people? Is it more taxes or less free medical, is it more taxes or poorer schooling, is it more taxes or worse road conditions, is it more taxes or rampant violence, is it more taxes or aged people in squalor?

Really, WTF (be nice Wyg ) does a 'government' have to do to appease you minority half baked potatoes.


----------



## moXJO (28 June 2010)

Wysiwyg said:


> I'm interested to know what exactly the 'government' does to screw people? Is it more taxes or less free medical, is it more taxes or poorer schooling, is it more taxes or worse road conditions, is it more taxes or rampant violence, is it more taxes or aged people in squalor?
> 
> Really, WTF (be nice Wyg ) does a government have to do to appease you minority half baked potatoes.




It's more taxes, an increase in ill thought out spending and less free medical, poorer schooling, worse road conditions etc. More taxes usually equate to another government department that gobbles up a good chunk of the revenue in red tape and reviews.
They rip revenue off us from every direction and I don't see anything getting much better. It has less to do with throwing more money at the problem and more to do with how they go about managing it.


----------



## trainspotter (28 June 2010)

explod said:


> And who's label may I ask?  ;
> 
> On what basis?
> 
> What we do not understand we ridicule without thought of the good that may go there.




Are you quoting Ghandi or Nietzsche? Answering questions with questions is not an answer. 

Ummmmmmm here I guess? http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/10472

Anyways enough philosophy for me. Let's not forget that PM Julia Gillard was part of the gang of four. She oversaw the introduction of the BER and afterall was the Deputy Prime Minister when all of these damaging decisions were made. Ergo she is GUILTY by association. But like typical Australian politics it has become more about a popularity contest of the leader than it has anything to do with the policies.

So my assumption will be PM Julia Gillard to reign longer than Kevin Rudd mainly due to her having read Herb Cohens book "You can negotiate anything" in late Decmber 1982 when she abandoned her studies at the University of Adelaide and moved to Melbourne to work with the Australian Union of Students. 

_"Gillard became the second woman to lead the Australian Union of Students. Gillard was also formerly the secretary of the left-wing organisation, Socialist Forum. Members of the Socialist Forum lobbied for the scrapping of the ANZUS treaty, making Leningrad a sister city of Melbourne,_ *and introducing a super-tax on the rich*."

Thank you wikipedia ... you are wicked ! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Gillard


----------



## Sdajii (28 June 2010)

Wysiwyg said:


> I'm interested to know what exactly the 'government' does to screw people? Is it more taxes or less free medical, is it more taxes or poorer schooling, is it more taxes or worse road conditions, is it more taxes or rampant violence, is it more taxes or aged people in squalor?
> 
> Really, WTF (be nice Wyg ) does a 'government' have to do to appease you minority half baked potatoes.




There is more to running a government than setting tax levels and deciding where it is spent. You could literally write many books on the topic, and tax rates/fund allocation sectors wouldn't take up the bulk of it. I'm certainly not one to suggest that the level of taxation in Australia is a massive problem, and it would not 'appease' me if they lowered the tax rate - I do understand that without taxes there is no infrastructure or services, and the country could not operate.

I barely even know where to begin in describing what is involved in running a country, it is such a massive topic which you can't summarise by saying all it involves is setting a taxation rate - that's just one little facet of the job. I couldn't even count all the issues the PM needs to deal with.


----------



## sails (28 June 2010)

Wysiwyg said:


> I'm interested to know what exactly the 'government' does to screw people?....




Wild and excessive spending that eventually has to be paid back - usually by increased taxes.  Surely that's obvious..

As very much part of the gang of four and deputy, JG was in agreement of the  spending.  
Just because her hair is looking better and she's now wearing make up doesn't mean her beliefs have changed.

I remember her nodding frequently with approval when Swan delivered the last budget.  

IMO, nothing has changed.  I hope the voting females of Oz are not that easily fooled.


----------



## dutchie (28 June 2010)

sails said:


> I hope the voting females of Oz are not that easily fooled.




and males.............


They both probably are, going on recent history.


----------



## Wysiwyg (28 June 2010)

Sdajii said:


> I barely even know where to begin in describing what is involved in running a country, it is such a massive topic which you can't summarise by saying all it involves is setting a taxation rate - that's just one little facet of the job. I couldn't even count all the issues the PM needs to deal with.



Thank you for your point of view. The above paragraph explains where the majority of Australians sit with 'knowing' what is involved with steering a country. Plenty of generalisations from people with 'no idea' of what is involved yet are direct/indirect beneficiaries of same spending. One party does this, the other party does that, but in the end Australia still has the best opportunity for living a healthy and prosperous life. Amen. (LOL)


----------



## Logique (28 June 2010)

Nice research there Trainspotter. 







> "Members of the Socialist Forum lobbied for the scrapping of the ANZUS treaty, making Leningrad a sister city of Melbourne, and introducing a super-tax on the rich."



Oh dear, and on permanent record on Wiki.

I think the election when it comes will hinge on the flow of green preferences. Many Greens and Labor voters are white-collar professional, people, who are financially literate, who own mining shares and who participate actively in managing their superannuation policies. So it's likely we'll see some leakage to Liberal this time, as Aussiejeff implied.

I'm worried about private health premiums if the ALP are returned. The govt is currently advertising on tv...make sure you're in a health fund soon, otherwise you'll lose your Lifetime Health Cover discount...  But all the years of accumulated premiums will have been for nothing if the rebate is reduced (or abandoned), causing people to have to drop their policies through inability to pay. 

I'll be accused of running a scare I guess, as there is no current suggestion of this from Labor (aside from the current proposed rebate reductions for the top end income brackets that is), but I think the ideology of the ALP is more toward public sector medicine than private sector, whereas I think a healthy mix of both is best.


----------



## Knobby22 (28 June 2010)

Julia will get back in because generally Australians will want to give her a fair go.

Also Abbott is a bit scary.

That's how I read the populace anyway.


----------



## Julia (28 June 2010)

Sdajii said:


> I'm not going to be silly enough to claim I know for sure, but my tip is that Gillard will win quite comfortably. I'm sure she'll get the majority of female voters just because she is female,



That's a rather simplistic view, isn't it?   I certainly won't be voting for her because she happens to be female and don't know anyone, male or female, who would.


> Everyone hated Abbott, everyone hated Rudd,



Just possibly a bit of an overstatement.



> Let's not kid ourselves; Joe Average isn't going to vote for the person who is the most capable, they're going to vote for the person who works their charm. The average voter is a moron, and elections come down to a popularity contest and the ability to debate, not the ability to run a country or anything like that, not primarily anyway.



That's a harsh judgement on your fellow Australians.  Certainly there will be some who are minimally involved in politics, but I'd suggest most Australians are these days - and particularly in the wake of recent events, politically aware and quite able to form sensible conclusions about the politicians on offer.



> I don't think we have a good option to vote for



Completely agree here.




Logique said:


> I think the election when it comes will hinge on the flow of green preferences. Many Greens and Labor voters are white-collar professional, people, who are financially literate, who own mining shares and who participate actively in managing their superannuation policies. So it's likely we'll see some leakage to Liberal this time, as Aussiejeff implied.



I think you're right about the Green vote.  And I'd question the way all the pollsters are allocating potential preferences on the basis of the last election.
It's really difficult to know at this early stage, and without policy from Ms Gillard yet about carbon pricing/ETS etc.  If she were to announce that an ETS would happen next year I suspect a lot of votes presently parked with the Greens would flow back to Labor.



> I'm worried about private health premiums if the ALP are returned. The govt is currently advertising on tv...make sure you're in a health fund soon, otherwise you'll lose your Lifetime Health Cover discount...  But all the years of accumulated premiums will have been for nothing if the rebate is reduced (or abandoned), causing people to have to drop their policies through inability to pay.



What is the Greens' policy on the private health rebate?   If they have the balance of power in the new Senate, their view will make a difference on this.
I'd guess they'd be all for abolishing the rebate.



Knobby22 said:


> Julia will get back in because generally Australians will want to give her a fair go.



Perhaps, but equally a lot of people are very unhappy about the brutal way Rudd was despatched and will not support Ms Gillard as a result, even though she has been very careful to keep the blood off her own hands.



> Also Abbott is a bit scary.



Very scary indeed.


----------



## Logique (28 June 2010)

http://greens.org.au/node/777
POLICY D1: HEALTH

Measures
The Australian Greens will:
23. abolish the private health insurance rebate and redirect funds to the public health system, including public hospitals.


----------



## Buckfont (28 June 2010)

Logique said:


> http://greens.org.au/node/777
> POLICY D1: HEALTH
> 
> Measures
> ...




Welcome chock-a-block public hospitals when the masses exit private health cause they can`t afford it. Heaven help us.


----------



## juiceman (28 June 2010)

This should not be about Abbott or Gillard.
Look at what is known;
Libs
Paid back $ 100 billion + interest in Labor debt
Set up the future fund with surplus cash
Left office with a surplus of $20 + billion
( i ask you what could they have achieved with that money, had they not had to spend it all on Labor DEBT )

Since when have Unions been able to manage a country.
To date what have they managed properly?
Cash givaway to the punters
Education building revolution
Pink bats
Refugee's
Whales

As far as i can see, they could not manage a #oot in a Brothel
Don't just look at the face, look at what is behind it!





Cash givaway to the public
Education Revolution etc


----------



## noco (28 June 2010)

juiceman said:


> This should not be about Abbott or Gillard.
> Look at what is known;
> Libs
> Paid back $ 100 billion + interest in Labor debt
> ...




How very true juiceman, some people have short memories. Rudd and his puppets were like parrots. They all had the same brain washed lines about the Coalition not having implimented anything in a decade (which is not entirely true) and is it any wonder why when there was so much confounded Labor debt inherited by the Howard Government.
How can anyone spend money when you don't have it. Only the Labor Party knows that. It is simple, just spend more borrowed money and let the next Liberal Government pay it back. It's like the dog trying to catch it's tail.
History repeats itself all over again.


----------



## Wysiwyg (28 June 2010)

juiceman said:


> Since when have Unions been able to manage a country.



 The Liberal Governments attempted workplace intervention was IMO a major contribution to their downfall. Most Australians are on the floor getting their hands dirty and have fought for better wages and conditions since I don't know when. The Liberal Party could do themselves a favour and listen to the workers of Australia. Start taking away the standards achieved so far and lookout again.    



> To date what have they managed properly?
> Cash givaway to the punters
> Education building revolution
> Pink bats
> ...



Unfortunately we will not know what the outcome would have been with a different government and I do agree the stimulus packages were over-the-top and the housing insulation program was poorly managed. 
The refugee issue requires being compassionate and assertive. 
Compassionate to our fellow humans born into abject poverty and despair and assertive about the immigration policy that everyone has to follow.
Whales. They are beautiful creatures.       

Maybe the Libs. could have done better.


----------



## trainspotter (28 June 2010)

Gillard for me please. Will go on to be one of the best PM's we have had due to world macro economics falling right into place for her and the Govmint.

Secret photo of her at Bulldogs training the other night !


----------



## noco (11 March 2012)

Two candidates. See the differences.

TONY ABBOTT 



 JULIA GILLARD






Volunteer Firefighter

 No community volunteering ever





Volunteer Lifesaver

 No community volunteering ever





Volunteer Aboriginal community teacher

 No community volunteering ever





Economics degree

 No economics degree





Married

 Lesbian and Has affairs with married men





Ex journalist

 Ex� Lawyer





3 children with home & Mortgage

 No children no mortgage





Practices Christian faith

 Stated Atheist





Successful Health Minister

 Education Minister for the BER rorting





Supported his PM

 Knifed her PM





His Government left 

20 Billion $$$ surplus

 Her government has created a 

90 Billion $$$ Debt and is currently borrowing 100 million dollars each day





Has always� belonged to 

the Liberal party

 Documented Links to 

the Communist party





Needs Liberal votes to win

 Needed Green preference 

and bribed independents to win





Rhodes scholar

 Fabian socialist society





Has not changed his standing

 Real Julia" revealed 

compared to ... what, fake Julia?





Stopped the boats

 Says " Another boat, another policy 

failure" in opposition but in government 

has no idea





Chosen opposition leader

 UN-elected PM





Wife runs community child care centre

 Boyfriend does her hair every morning


----------



## MrBurns (11 March 2012)

Regardless of your politics its about time someone else had a go.


----------



## rumpole (11 March 2012)

Well it's a tough choice.

Abbott's got nothing AFAIC, so it has to be Labor. Unless Turnbull is Opp leader, then it may be Liberal.

Doesn't make a difference, I'm in a safe Nat seat.


----------



## Julia (11 March 2012)

> Lesbian and Has affairs with married men



Noco, I am absolutely no fan of Ms Gillard and would like to see her out of The Lodge as soon as possible.
However, I think to make unproven allegations about any politician's sexuality is just inappropriate.  You may conclude she is a lesbian.  Whether she is or not is no one's business but her own and should not, imo, constitute any part of the case against her.

Heaven knows there's more than enough to level against her without bringing her sexuality into it.


----------



## Macquack (11 March 2012)

Julia said:


> Noco, I am absolutely no fan of Ms Gillard and would like to see her out of The Lodge as soon as possible.
> However, I think to make unproven allegations about any politician's sexuality is just inappropriate.  You may conclude she is a lesbian.  Whether she is or not is no one's business but her own and should not, imo, constitute any part of the case against her.
> 
> Heaven knows there's more than enough to level against her without bringing her sexuality into it.




Agree with Julia. 

Noco should stick to the facts and his credibility may rise above zero.

In fact, the pieces of fluff that he includes in his posts makes him a real asset to the Labor cause.


----------



## rumpole (12 March 2012)

Macquack said:


> Agree with Julia.
> 
> Noco should stick to the facts and his credibility may rise above zero.
> 
> In fact, the pieces of fluff that he includes in his posts makes him a real asset to the Labor cause.




After seeing the posts from someone like noco I wonder what sort of forum I've blundered into that attracts that sort of looney.

People here accuse me of being blinkered. You lot should take a good look in the mirror.


----------



## Eager (12 March 2012)

rumpole said:


> After seeing the posts from someone like noco I wonder what sort of forum I've blundered into that attracts that sort of looney.
> 
> People here accuse me of being blinkered. You lot should take a good look in the mirror.



You will find that a lot here, unfortunately. No doubt you will sooner or later also be accused of using spin whenever you try to restore some balance to an argument even if you provide links to known facts. You will also get the feeling from the majority of the membership that we live in the most horrid country on the planet, and that the sky will definitely fall in on July 1.

Welcome to the cyber-branch of the Liberal Party.


----------



## rumpole (12 March 2012)

Eager said:


> You will find that a lot here, unfortunately. No doubt you will sooner or later also be accused of using spin whenever you try to restore some balance to an argument even if you provide links to known facts. You will also get the feeling from the majority of the membership that we live in the most horrid country on the planet, and that the sky will definitely fall in on July 1.
> 
> Welcome to the cyber-branch of the Liberal Party.




Thanks Eager, I feel better now that there are others with a balanced view here


----------



## noco (12 March 2012)

Macquack said:


> Agree with Julia.
> 
> Noco should stick to the facts and his credibility may rise above zero.
> 
> In fact, the pieces of fluff that he includes in his posts makes him a real asset to the Labor cause.




I guess if you are prepared to accept the leader of this counrty with low moral standards and you are happy about it, so be it. There are no secrets about Julia Gillard; evryboby knows what she is like.

It easy for the youth of today to be lead astray with out further coaching from the leader of this country. She should be setting an example.


----------



## rumpole (12 March 2012)

noco said:


> I guess if you are prepared to accept the leader of this counrty with low moral standards and you are happy about it, so be it. There are no secrets about Julia Gillard; evryboby knows what she is like.




Could you quantify the "low moral standards" claim ?

You mean she is un-married? Do you realise how many people are living in de-facto relationships these days ? I suppose they are all deviants to you ?


----------



## qldfrog (12 March 2012)

rumpole said:


> Could you quantify the "low moral standards" claim ?
> 
> You mean she is un-married? Do you realise how many people are living in de-facto relationships these days ? I suppose they are all deviants to you ?



 I  personally does not give a rat $$$ if she is married or not; what I know is she has never been elected in power:she holds the balance of power with what would be calledbribe in any public company and is a puppet for union branch fights

And this is enough for me to call her low moral standard, my own naming would be even harder..
Sorry to interrupt but between Liberals supporters who still push for Abbott whereas he is the single reason we have labour in place today[ and might have them even longer] and blinded labour supporters who live in disneyland, I believe many Australians like me are really getting fed up;
in less than 5 years, we got 1 billion a month in interest on a debt that I will have to pay and most probably my kids as well.
Let's throw the jokers out....

Even Katter will soon become a reasonable alternative if we carry on on that path..
Sorry for the out burst ...getting really fed up with both main parties and their peons....


----------



## joea (13 March 2012)

Well I think the decision who to for vote in the next Federal Election(if Gillard goes full term), will be a nobrainer.
The mining tax and carbon tax will be implemented.
The voters will just to have a look at the basic cost of living, then at their bank account at the end of each week and decide.
The concensus now appears  to be, to either vote for Gillard who struggle to be in favor with the voters or Abbott who they do not want.

Well by then I hope it has dawned on the voters that they are voting for a party and not a person.
I think the voter is turning into a population of "cynic's" and sook's.

They can only advise and comment on who or what they do not like.
Ask them to come up with something positive or make a decision, and they are heading for the door.
No wonder the younger generation is a bit of a mess, or may I say what we understand of the younger generation(by the media).

Personally I think some of the media is just playing mind games with the voter, for their own personal satisfaction to see how they can influence the polls. 
joea


----------



## MrBurns (13 March 2012)

People may not want Abbott but they want Gillard a lot less.

Carbon Tax compensation, who in their right mind would believe anything she says let alone believe she is capable of delivering adequate compensation, the price of everything will go up, even businesses unaffected will take the opportunity and Gillard who cant put pink batts in ceilings without buggering it up will do this right ?

I for one don't care if it's Abbott or not as long as it isnt the socialist looters again.

If it wasn't so serious it would be funny.


----------



## rumpole (13 March 2012)

MrBurns said:


> People may not want Abbott but they want Gillard a lot less.
> 
> Carbon Tax compensation, who in their right mind would believe anything she says let alone believe she is capable of delivering adequate compensation, the price of everything will go up, even businesses unaffected will take the opportunity and Gillard who cant put pink batts in ceilings without buggering it up will do this right ?
> 
> ...




It wasn't Gillard who put the pink batts in, it was Rudd.

Talking of pink, what is Abbott's great big tax on business to pay for parental leave ? A socialist policy if I ever saw one.


----------



## MrBurns (13 March 2012)

rumpole said:


> It wasn't Gillard who put the pink batts in, it was Rudd.
> 
> Talking of pink, what is Abbott's great big tax on business to pay for parental leave ? A socialist policy if I ever saw one.




Rudd, Gillard, interchangeable lets call it LABOR

Paying for parental leave is one thing looting business to pay for your own stupidity is another.

Any bad moves by the Libs will be corrected by the party they arent idealists wanting the successful to pay for their hairbrained ideas they actually make the money and know how to handle it.


----------



## MrBurns (13 March 2012)

From the ABC web site, this may be the end for Tony but they may wait till closer to the election, running second to Gillard in popularity is like being less popular than Hitler, the polls either flawed of Tony has to go.



> Support for the Federal Government has dropped four percentage points in the latest Newspoll, but Julia Gillard has overtaken Opposition Leader Tony Abbott as preferred prime minister.


----------



## rumpole (13 March 2012)

MrBurns said:


> Paying for parental leave is one thing looting business to pay for your own stupidity is another.
> 
> Any bad moves by the Libs will be corrected by the party they arent idealists wanting the successful to pay for their hairbrained ideas they actually make the money and know how to handle it.




A tax on business to pay for parental leave IS looting business to pay for your own stupidity.

A reminder that under the mining tax proposal businesses will get a TAX CUT . That is not looting business, it's helping them.


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## MrBurns (13 March 2012)

rumpole said:


> A tax on business to pay for parental leave IS looting business to pay for your own stupidity.
> 
> A reminder that under the mining tax proposal businesses will get a TAX CUT . That is not looting business, it's helping them.




I dont see how parental leave could be seen as stupidity and the business tax cut lets wait and see how that gets watered down and/or stuffed up as it surely will be.


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## rumpole (13 March 2012)

Burnsy,

Didn't we say in another place that we were going to retire from politics until the next election ? 

I'm going to, so I'll talk to you in 18 months or so and we'll see how the land lies then.

Cheers and take it easy squire

:car::aus:


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## MrBurns (13 March 2012)

rumpole said:


> Burnsy,
> 
> Didn't we say in another place that we were going to retire from politics until the next election ?
> 
> ...




You just beat me to it, I agree, Cheers Rumpy:bier:


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## Kee37 (13 March 2012)

Do I have to vote for one or the other? Heres hoping to a tragic roof collapse in parliament house


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## noco (13 March 2012)

rumpole said:


> Could you quantify the "low moral standards" claim ?
> 
> You mean she is un-married? Do you realise how many people are living in de-facto relationships these days ? I suppose they are all deviants to you ?




Rumpole, What other people do with de-facto relationships is one thing. It is far different when you have someone in the public life as our Prime Minister not setting some standard as a leader.

Apart from her personal life, Julia Gillard has proven to a majority of people in this country how low her moral standards are with her :-

Lying
Coniving
Trickiness
Untrustworthy
Deviousness 
Plotting

Other ASF members could no doubt to this list.

Don't try to tell I am wrong as I am sure other members with swallow you.


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## rumpole (13 March 2012)

noco said:


> Don't try to tell I am wrong as I am sure other members with swallow you.




A real egalitarian forum this eh what ?

A tag team punch up of alternative views to your own narrow mindedness.

I thought this was Australia not the Tea Party loonies.


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## rumpole (13 March 2012)

rumpole said:


> A real egalitarian forum this eh what ?
> 
> A tag team punch up of alternative views to your own narrow mindedness.
> 
> I thought this was Australia not the Tea Party loonies.




And Nazi loonies as well


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## joea (13 March 2012)

MrBurns said:


> I for one don't care if it's Abbott or not as long as it isnt the socialist looters again.
> 
> If it wasn't so serious it would be funny.




+++++++1
joea


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## MrBurns (13 March 2012)

rumpole said:


> And Nazi loonies as well




Ahhh Rumpy I see you've met the welcoming party
 '


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## rumpole (13 March 2012)

MrBurns said:


> Ahhh Rumpy I see you've met the welcoming party
> '




Yes, I have retired (mostly) from political comment, but don't mind having a crack at some of the less tolerant people here


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## Julia (13 March 2012)

MrBurns said:


> People may not want Abbott but they want Gillard a lot less.



You've now corrected this via the latest Newspoll.



MrBurns said:


> Paying for parental leave is one thing looting business to pay for your own stupidity is another.



The government's parental leave scheme is much more modest.  Imo Mr Abbott should simply agree that he will keep this.  His proposed scheme is far too generous and is an unreasonable impost on business, much of which is already struggling.
It's also a 'bad look' that the Libs will not commit to a national disability scheme or a dental scheme, both of which are sorely needed, yet they are happy to give new parents an unnecessarily generous persuader to have children.  It just makes no sociological or political sense to me.



> Any bad moves by the Libs will be corrected by the party they arent idealists wanting the successful to pay for their hairbrained ideas they actually make the money and know how to handle it.



 Let's remember that the team which did demonstrate good financial management is long gone.  I don't have necessarily the same confidence in the present bunch, Joe Hockey as Treasurer in particular.


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## MrBurns (13 March 2012)

Julia said:


> You've now corrected this via the latest Newspoll.
> 
> 
> I don't have necessarily the same confidence in the present bunch, Joe Hockey as Treasurer in particular.




I find it very difficult to believe that Gillard is more popular than Abbott despite his awkward way.

I like Joe Hockey, he's smart and doesnt look like the cartoon character Goofy like Swan, 

Swan attacked Clive Palmer, Swan is an idiot.


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## Logique (13 March 2012)

rumpole said:


> Yes, I have retired (mostly) from political comment, but don't mind having a crack at some of the less tolerant people here



You should have seen how tolerant Tanya Plibersek was of the Farmer of the Year last night on Q&A.


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## sails (13 March 2012)

Julia said:


> You've now corrected this via the latest Newspoll.
> 
> 
> The government's parental leave scheme is much more modest.  Imo Mr Abbott should simply agree that he will keep this.  His proposed scheme is far too generous and is an unreasonable impost on business, much of which is already struggling.
> ...




Yes, agree with your comments on parental leave, disability and dental schemes.

While I don't have the same confidence in the libs as under Howard/Costello (with the exception of his politically stupid "work choices" which swung the pendulum way too far, imo) I still think the libs will do a better job than the self serving lot we have making their own decisions and thumbing their noses at the wishes of the majority of voters as shown by professional opinion polls.


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## tinhat (13 March 2012)

I'm trying to stay out of the partisan political arguments on these fora because they are on the whole completely inane. I've been reading dribs and drabs though because it has helped me to understand how much I can trust the analysis of people here when it comes to stock market investing.

A nice concise pox-on-both your houses article in today's fairfax media by Michael Pascoe.

http://www.businessday.com.au/business/the-politics-of-treason-20120313-1uxi8.html

And yet, despite it all, the Westminster system is still the most effective democratic model.


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## Julia (13 March 2012)

tinhat said:


> I'm trying to stay out of the partisan political arguments on these fora because they are on the whole completely inane.



Well, that's a pity.   It would be much more useful if you were prepared to make an actual contribution instead of just tossing out your criticism.
I, for one, would much welcome your views which are usually thoughtful and rational.


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## rumpole (13 March 2012)

MrBurns said:


> I find it very difficult to believe that Gillard is more popular than Abbott despite his awkward way.
> 
> I like Joe Hockey, he's smart and doesnt look like the cartoon character Goofy like Swan,
> 
> Swan attacked Clive Palmer, Swan is an idiot.




You missed a trick there, you should have said Swan is a goose


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## noco (13 March 2012)

rumpole said:


> And Nazi loonies as well




rumpole, you are so funny

You should have been a clown in a 3 ring circus.


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## rumpole (14 March 2012)

noco said:


> rumpole, you are so funny
> 
> You should have been a clown in a 3 ring circus.




Any danger of you making an intelligent comment any time soon ?


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## joea (14 March 2012)

It amazes me that in Qld. the Newman's position as Lord Mayor is now being questioned, while the Craig Thompson affair is hiding under a mushroom, probably never to be heard of again.
Every now and then there is a minute ripple of information, to be quickly squashed by some sourse.
0ne can only wonder how extensive the rorting was and how many palms were blessed.

One would think that what actually happened in the Thompson scandel will partially come to light, but I wonder when it does, will the generation at the time of exposure remember it?

So basically "crime does pay".
joea


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## rumpole (14 March 2012)

joea said:


> So basically "crime does pay".
> joea




A bit pre-judgemental don't you think ?


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## MrBurns (14 March 2012)

joea said:


> So basically "crime does pay".
> joea




Someone once said, if you go into crime also go into politics, polititians never go to jail, or something to that effect.

Thompson s a creep, it's written all over him.


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## joea (14 March 2012)

rumpole said:


> A bit pre-judgemental don't you think ?




No I will standby that.
If he was innocent we would have had a report back in 3 months.
joea


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## Knobby22 (14 March 2012)

joea said:


> No I will standby that.
> If he was innocent we would have had a report back in 3 months.
> joea




So linking it to Newman means you think he is guilty of a crime as well?

Or that he should not be criticised or his "Mayor career" be free from investigation because Thompson is still in Parliament?

Or am I missing something?


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## RobWA (14 March 2012)

JTLP said:


> All Labor does is spend YOUR money then tax profitable industries to fix mistakes.




I hope that is a joke after Howard's wastrel ways. At least he had Costello to keep him in check. All Tony's got is a fat man who looks and talks like a used car salesman and that other man who looks terminally ill. We can only afford Liberals in good times. The trouble is there isn't any Labor any more. I suspect we're going to get the NSW disease with leader roundabouts for a long time.


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## joea (14 March 2012)

Knobby22 said:


> So linking it to Newman means you think he is guilty of a crime as well?
> 
> Or am I missing something?




You may be.
When Newman was Lord Mayor, Labor had no problem with his doings.
Now he is going for a seat as a MP and hopes to be Premier, Labor are looking back into his doing's as Mayor.

Technically you are innocent until proven guilty. ok we can accept that.
But please do not try and convince  me that the Craig Thompson inquiry is not suspicious after 3 years and still no report. I will stand by my statement until a report comes to the surface.

We have had two inquiry's into the dam fiasco and now it is being stated we may have to have a third to get to the real truth.
joea


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## IFocus (14 March 2012)

RobWA said:


> I hope that is a joke after Howard's wastrel ways. At least he had Costello to keep him in check. All Tony's got is a fat man who looks and talks like a used car salesman and that other man who looks terminally ill. We can only afford Liberals in good times. The trouble is there isn't any Labor any more. I suspect we're going to get the NSW disease with leader roundabouts for a long time.





Nice work Rob welcome to the forum


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## Garpal Gumnut (14 March 2012)

As probably the poster on ASF who is considered the most unbiased in his political opinions, I would agree that the next Fed election it is a choice between Gillard and Abbott.

It is not a difficult choice really.

gg


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## sptrawler (14 March 2012)

IFocus said:


> Nice work Rob welcome to the forum




Yeh great work Rob, always good to see a Craig Thompson fan on the forum.


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## sails (15 March 2012)

And what about this little convenient stunt?  Just before the election - and on a five year contract?  Is this a feathering of their own nest at taxpayers expense as it is very likely (imo) that climate change departments may be dismantled sometime in the near future.



> "QUEENSLAND Premier Anna Bligh's husband, Greg Withers, will receive a six-figure payout if he is dumped by an elected Liberal National Party government after the top bureaucrat just had his contract renewed.
> 
> Mr Withers, put in charge of the newly created Office of Climate Change in 2007 barely a month after Ms Bligh became Premier, won a new three-year contract, with a further two-year option, on his $220,000-a-year package in December."




and



> "Opposition Treasury spokesman Tim Nicholls said Mr Withers's role was a clear conflict of interest and it was suspicious that he should have his contract renewed on the eve of the March 24 election."




*Big payout for Queensland Premier Anna Bligh's partner in 11th hour deal *


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## noco (15 March 2012)

rumpole said:


> Any danger of you making an intelligent comment any time soon ?




Rumpole, old fellow, you should meander back through my 1826 posts and threads..You will find plenty.
I can't help having a crack at some of your unintelligent comments.


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## Paradocs (16 March 2012)

sails said:


> *Big payout for Queensland Premier Anna Bligh's partner in 11th hour deal *




  So that's where the NSW backroom boys went for their hols then eh? Ahhh Queensland......


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## rumpole (17 March 2012)

noco said:


> Rumpole, old fellow, you should meander back through my 1826 posts and threads..You will find plenty.




I'm sure it will be a magical mystery trip like no other


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## bigdog (17 March 2012)

They are both embarassing duds and not PM quality people!

Turnbull is one hope or better still would be to bring back Peter Costello for PM!

Labour is full of many many duds that have never worked in industry and are tying to run this country!


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## noco (17 March 2012)

rumpole said:


> I'm sure it will be a magical mystery trip like no other




No, seriously rumpole, it would be a great eduaction for you to learn somethings you do not know.


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## Eager (17 March 2012)

noco said:


> No, seriously rumpole, it would be a great *eduaction *for you to learn somethings you do not know.



Something that you obviously did not receive!!!!


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## noco (17 March 2012)

Eager said:


> Something that you obviously did not receive!!!!




Correction : EDUCATION. That you feel better?


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## Eager (18 March 2012)

noco said:


> That you feel better?



Do you also speak in broken English in person?


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## Mrmagoo (18 March 2012)

i'm still pretty poor, so the ALP.

Libs will only make things worse.


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## StumpyPhantom (28 March 2012)

Mrmagoo said:


> i'm still pretty poor, so the ALP.
> 
> Libs will only make things worse.




Mr Magoo - I hope you're in Qld, because the new Premier is going to force energy companies to put on your power bill what the carbon tax component of it is.

So if you pay $1200, and they say the carbon tax cost you $300 of that, I hope you count up the little pennies Labor saved you elsewhere to see whether they improved your self-description of 'pretty poor'.

And that's just your power bill.  Can't imagine what your new colorbond roof is going to cost (if you need one).  The Greens would just have you sit under a tree and weave a thatched roof.

Good luck with voting Labor - on today's polling results you will be one of 27% of the country doing so.


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