# Good book on VSA and Wyckoff?



## shyguy

Looking to read up on these two things... mostly Volume Spread Analysis...


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## tech/a

http://myfilestreasure.com/?search=master+the+markets+pdf&wmid=218&hl=AU

"Master The Markets"

Also google it for PDF downloads.


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## ThingyMajiggy

did you try Google? 

I'd try typing "Wyckoff PDF" or something along those lines and hitting search. Thought you would try this first before creating a new thread on a forum(already with Wyckoff and VSA threads a little further down the page) but each to their own  good luck!


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## shyguy

ThingyMajiggy said:


> did you try Google?
> 
> I'd try typing "Wyckoff PDF" or something along those lines and hitting search. Thought you would try this first before creating a new thread on a forum(already with Wyckoff and VSA threads a little further down the page) but each to their own  good luck!




I started the thread in search for a "good" book... hence I was after other peoples recommendations on what is worth reading.

Why would I type in "Wyckoff pdf" when I asked about a book...

I looked through most of the threads in the original thread location and couldnt see anything about any particular books...

Hence my thread...


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## ThingyMajiggy

shyguy said:


> I started the thread in search for a "good" book... hence I was after other peoples recommendations on what is worth reading.
> 
> Why would I type in "Wyckoff pdf" when I asked about a book...
> 
> I looked through most of the threads in the original thread location and couldnt see anything about any particular books...
> 
> Hence my thread...




Because Wyckoff wrote everything there is to learn about Wyckoff maybe? Why would you read someone else's book on Wyckoff when he has a handful of books/articles he wrote himself explaining everything. You could also try www.ltg-trading.com which has a chat room every night and webinars etc. all on Wyckoff, can be a handy site. 

Tech/A has posted the book for VSA, which is just a fancy marketed version of Wyckoff anyway, but they incorporated "VSA" into software as well with Tradeguider etc.


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## joea

Hi.
Just wondering if anybody has read "Trading in the Shadow of Smart Money".?
If they have, would they like to comment.(i.e. the complete book)

Cheers


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## tech/a

joea said:


> Hi.
> Just wondering if anybody has read "Trading in the Shadow of Smart Money".?
> If they have, would they like to comment.(i.e. the complete book)
> 
> Cheers




It's basically a description of every indicator in the Tradeguider software.
There is no information for the trader on practical application of the analysis.
It does however show the construction and thinking behind each indicator.


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## joea

tech/a said:


> It's basically a description of every indicator in the Tradeguider software.
> There is no information for the trader on practical application of the analysis.
> It does however show the construction and thinking behind each indicator.




tech/a
I am under the asumption that there are two books of the same name.
Vol 2 Sequential VSA Chart Patterns Explained.

The other was released about three weeks ago. It has 12 chapters with
Chapter 6  explaining key principles of VSA methodology Part 1- Weakness
Chapter 7     "           "       "        "    "          "             "    2- Strength
     "     8 developing a trading plan for you using VSA
These appear to be the main body of the book, with colour charts included.

about $150  printed and $100 electronic.

Thanks anyway.


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## joea

Sorry for previous post, it did not handle " plus gaps very well.
joe


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## pavilion103

joea said:


> tech/a
> I am under the asumption that there are two books of the same name.
> Vol 2 Sequential VSA Chart Patterns Explained.
> 
> The other was released about three weeks ago. It has 12 chapters with
> Chapter 6  explaining key principles of VSA methodology Part 1- Weakness
> Chapter 7     "           "       "        "    "          "             "    2- Strength
> "     8 developing a trading plan for you using VSA
> These appear to be the main body of the book, with colour charts included.
> 
> about $150  printed and $100 electronic.
> 
> Thanks anyway.




Where can I find this one mate? I'm having some trouble on Google.

The only book on VSA I've read is "Master the Markets" which everyone else has also. 

The Wyckoff books that I downloaded are:
- How I Trade and Invest in Stocks and Bonds
- Day Trader's Bible

I am yet to read either of those last two books yet. Has anyone else read them? Which one is better? are their other books he has that are 'must reads'?


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## tech/a

Sent you a PM

Cause its secret!


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## $20shoes

tech/a said:


> Sent you a PM
> 
> Cause its secret!




You can PM me too . Thank you.


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## Lone Wolf

pavilion103 said:


> Where can I find this one mate? I'm having some trouble on Google.




If you're looking for "Trading in the shadow of the smart money (volume 1)" it can be found on amazon.com. The kindle version goes for $100.

This is not to be confused with volume 2 of the same name for $25 which (from what I can tell) seems to be just a big list of all possible tradeguider signals.

I can't comment on whether it's worth reading or not. Hopefully you got some good tips from the secret society of VSA traders you and tech/a have started. :


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## tech/a

Volume 2 is as you've said
Unless you see the setup on a chart it won't mean much
But well worth having all the same.


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## Mistagear

Hi,

VSA is like religion.

First you have to blindly accept one God, the God of "All Volume is Supply".

then,

Reject all other Gods... The Gods of Fundamentals and  God of Lagging Indicators.

After your conversion, market moves will become logical and your confusion will baptised away.

Seriously, I dont think you need to read multiple works on VSA. If you read enough Wyckoff to become aware of it's logic, the great body of your awareness will come from your own observations over time. 
The solution to THE quest is SO simple, yet most people can't accept VSA as the answer, when the majority of seemingly intelligent people never find the understanding of the market they strive SO hard to find. 

VSA is also like polygamy,,, half the population would like to experience the benefits but unless you have tried it, you'll never know exactly how good it feels. lol

Cheers, M


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## WhoToTrust

Gavin allows his second book to be freely distributed here:

http://tradeguider.com/tradingintheshadow/tradeseqexp.pdf


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## Frank D

Mistagear said:


> First you have to blindly accept one God, the God of "All Volume is Supply".
> 
> Reject all other Gods... The Gods of Fundamentals and  God of Lagging Indicators.
> 
> The solution to THE quest is SO simple, yet most people can't accept VSA as the answer, when the majority of seemingly intelligent people never find the understanding of the market they strive SO hard to find.




Volume is not the answer. You don't even need to look at volume to be successful at trading or making money on the markets.

VSA is just more marketing hype.


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## tech/a

Believe what you like Frank
Makes me obscene money for time invested.
It's not un common for me to make my production managers weekly wage in less than an hr.

Frankly I can't handle Gavins droning presentations.
Nor am I a fan of his " hoora" yank full on marketing.

As for the method much is NOT passed on to the masses.The software is handy but not a VSA requirement.
*FEW* learn the art of VSA and let me tell you it's more about what's happening when there is very LOW volume than it is when there is very HIGH volume.

Most including you Frank " think" you know how to read and apply VSA -- they and you don't.
If you did you wouldn't be making such stupid un supported statements.

I don't care if people find the secrets of VSA.
It's there but not taught even by Gavin.you actually have to put in effort.
I did-- I win.


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## Frank D

Put in context to the comment…

_*People can’t accept VSA is the answer.*

_It’s not the friggin answer, So I stand by my statement

So the secret of trading is VSA? Give me a break.

Talk about making stupid comments.


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## Gringotts Bank

tech/a said:


> it's more about what's happening when there is very LOW volume than it is when there is very HIGH volume.




tech, what do you look for on very low volume?


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## tech/a

Frank D said:


> Put in context to the comment…
> 
> _*People can’t accept VSA is the answer.*
> 
> _It’s not the friggin answer, So I stand by my statement
> 
> So the secret of trading is VSA? Give me a break.
> 
> Talk about making stupid comments.




If your trading shorter term being able to read Volume and Range* IS* a huge edge.
You havent used it so 
Give *ME* a break.


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## tech/a

Gringotts Bank said:


> tech, what do you look for on very low volume?




Im currently trading the SPI and taking piks as volume analysis indicates

Buy/Stay in/Get out/
Ill post up at the end of the trade.

The notations should answer your question.


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## tech/a

tech/a said:


> Im currently trading the SPI and taking piks as volume analysis indicates
> 
> Buy/Stay in/Get out/
> Ill post up at the end of the trade.
> 
> The notations should answer your question.




Trade closed

Will reply with charts once I mark them up and have time.
All can clearly see the time at the bottom of the chart so you will be able to see the chart read as each chart is presented Picked up 21 ticks x 2 or $550
In just over 30 mins.
Have meetings in 30 min so wont open another trade now.
Happy with time spent and return.

Back later.


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## tech/a

Ok Over that trade I took shots of 14 or so charts.
Each at points of reference.
Each chart you can see the time (Its a 1 min chart) along the bottom
So the comments relate to decisions going forward.
This goes on from Buy to Hold To Exit.

My mainframe at the office has an issue so cant access Outlook I was going to post the charts home to mark up and post.

So cant do that immediately but when I get the problem finished I will open a new thread

"*Reading a trade with VSA a working example."*


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## joea

pavilion103 said:


> Where can I find this one mate? I'm having some trouble on Google.
> 
> The only book on VSA I've read is "Master the Markets" which everyone else has also.
> 
> The Wyckoff books that I downloaded are:
> - How I Trade and Invest in Stocks and Bonds
> - Day Trader's Bible
> 
> I am yet to read either of those last two books yet. Has anyone else read them? Which one is better? are their other books he has that are 'must reads'?




Trading in the Shadow of Smart money is on Tradeguider site, but the first 4 chapters are words, then there is VSA, then there are some chapters on the software.
joea


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## joea

tech/a said:


> If your trading shorter term being able to read Volume and Range* IS* a huge edge.
> You havent used it so
> Give *ME* a break.




I agree with you tech/a 100%.
Having been alerted to VSA by this forum I have followed it up.
The answer is in the volume/ bar realationship.

However there are many sites showing how indicators and proprietary indicator work.
They may get part of the job done but they are not as acurate as the basic principle of VSA. "SUCH IS LIFE"

joea


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## tech/a

joea said:


> I agree with you tech/a 100%.
> Having been alerted to VSA by this forum I have followed it up.
> The answer is in the volume/ bar realationship.
> 
> However there are many sites showing how indicators and proprietary indicator work.
> They may get part of the job done but they are not as acurate as the basic principle of VSA. "SUCH IS LIFE"
> 
> joea




True.
I've seen lots of code which supposedly duplicates VSA signals
It doesn't and from the signals generated it's very clear that those coding it up have no idea.
Unfortunately people want an indicator which gives an arrow which says buy and another which says sell.
Tradeguider arrows indicate *WHAT* the bar or bars *INDICATE*
A particular action in volume and range.
The trick is in application.

IT'S A SECRET
Which seems to have upset a few has nothing to do with VSA
And everything to do with not wanting a zillion private mails wanting the
Books I offered to the poster.
So once again what you think you see isn't what's there!


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## Frank D

tech/a said:


> Most including you Frank " think" you know how to read and apply VSA -- they and you don't. If you did you wouldn't be making such stupid unsupported statements.




Since I don’t know VSA, I’ll give my opinion by what you have posted on the
 other thread regarding trading the SPI.

Firstly, nice trading from an experienced trader, when the pattern has a reliable
 edge of working:- hitting resistance

*VSA*:- fancy name for subjective technical analysis using both
 Volume and Price.

All methodologies need fancy names for marketing purposes

Can’t be proven it works. Can’t be proven it doesn’t work, simply because
it can’t be formulated to provided back tested results, which makes it 
ideal for marketing purposes.

Experience traders like yourself and others will be able to use it with success, 
simply because they have the experience & time with the markets to make it work, 
or more importantly apply VSA within a number games.

Inexperienced traders will struggle because there’s no A,B & C, so
 educators like yourself need to constantly show them how it works. Like E.W.
Others will simply charge $thousands to the gullible

Chicken or the egg argument….

VSA should be used in conjunction with proven patterns that provide a reliable 
edge, ie breakout of ranges, support & resistance.

VSA on it’s own might work or might not. who is to know.

 In my opinion, know what the market is doing first and then apply VSA
 as a secondary tool that helps increase the edge.

Not sure how VSA would work in Forex unless you are using real volume:- ticks per trade, not volume by time.

Not sure how you would apply VSA at the open when Volume is at its highest, unless you already have a level or pattern deemed as reliable.


* In conclusion*:- I haven’t changed my opinion on VSA, it’s not the secret
 answer to successful trading.

Good trading tool if you have the patience to learn it.

 I don't have the patience to be staring at the screen all day everyday waiting for low or high volume bars. I already know what I'm doing and what i'm going to do about before price and volume is applied:-  Reliable patterns and numbers game

And I support my answer by what you have posted in the other thread:- glorifed
 chart reading skills, which I'm a big believe in.

That's my last word on it.


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## tech/a

*Frank *

Firstly I respect your opinion.
You are one of the few who have found an edge.
I also enjoy intelligent discussion again 
your one of the few who present it.So for the benifit of those interested.




Frank D said:


> Since I don’t know VSA, I’ll give my opinion by what you have posted on the
> other thread regarding trading the SPI.
> 
> Firstly, nice trading from an experienced trader, when the pattern has a reliable
> edge of working:- hitting resistance




Didnt see that (Resistance) but if it did then all the more reason for the analysis to be supportive---or not. Infact its at the high of today battling with resistance. No arguement Support and Resistance are powerful tools. But Support AND Resistance Fail
VSA allows you to know what will likley happen so you remain on the righ side.



> *VSA*:- fancy name for subjective technical analysis using both
> Volume and Price.




Fancy name yes --- subjective to those who dont know how to read it and in stone to those who do.



> All methodologies need fancy names for marketing purposes




And reference.



> Can’t be proven it works. Can’t be proven it doesn’t work, simply because
> it can’t be formulated to provided back tested results, which makes it
> ideal for marketing purposes.




Actually it can. Kris--(My in house rocket scientist) and I are in the process of doing just that.Its damned long and involved but some VERY interesting results. I wont be making the results public as its cost us a motza in software and time.If we evr release a book youll see it there.



> Experience traders like yourself and others will be able to use it with success,
> simply because they have the experience & time with the markets to make it work,
> or more importantly apply VSA within a number games.




No arguement here most want INSTANT gratification and *"SEE"* what they want to see while biased wit what they expect the market to do---One of the hardest things to overcome in trading!



> Inexperienced traders will struggle because there’s no A,B & C, so
> educators like yourself need to constantly show them how it works. Like E.W.
> Others will simply charge $thousands to the gullible




Again very true. Take Tradeguider and VSA. What they want is the software to show an arrow to take a trade then another to exit. Infact someone asked just that with my trade yesterday. The analysis is SOUND the application in software as you know is via an algorithm (Something we are dealing with--in testing) so it regularly breaks down as its based on a set of conditions which may alter slightly and still remain true---yet the software will not recognise a failure or a continuation as the price and volume falls outside of the conditions of the algorithm.

This knowledge which comes with experience --- is the DIFFERENCE between success and faiure---(I mean the ability to recognise when a Price /Pattern and or Volume and understand what its saying---even more important how to practically apply it.)



> Chicken or the egg argument….
> 
> VSA should be used in conjunction with proven patterns that provide a reliable
> edge, ie breakout of ranges, support & resistance.




Agree very powerful when combined.



> VSA on it’s own might work or might not. who is to know.




It does I do it all the time---bit lazy!



> In my opinion, know what the market is doing first and then apply VSA
> as a secondary tool that helps increase the edge



.

Absolutely.



> Not sure how VSA would work in Forex unless you are using real volume:- ticks per trade, not volume by time.
> 
> Not sure how you would apply VSA at the open when Volume is at its highest, unless you already have a level or pattern deemed as reliable.




Ive had a look but havent been able to see anything obviuos on the + side.
timeframes however are important --far far too much to discuss here and besides its a work in progress. Works brilliantly on INDEXES.



> * In conclusion*:- I haven’t changed my opinion on VSA, it’s not the secret
> answer to successful trading



.

It is to me!



> Good trading tool if you have the patience to learn it.
> 
> I don't have the patience to be staring at the screen all day everyday waiting for low or high volume bars. I already know what I'm doing and what i'm going to do about before price and volume is applied:-  Reliable patterns and numbers game





Think Ive proven you dont have to be at the screen all day. Would drive me mad!
Most of my trades last 15 min to 2 hrs. If its 2 hrs then Im celerbrating! I tend to trade then go away.



> And I support my answer by what you have posted in the other thread:- glorifed
> chart reading skills, which I'm a big believe in.
> 
> That's my last word on it.




Dont think they are glorified
They are simply skills *EVERY* experienced trader *SHOULD* know inside out.
Worth a fortune and you can step up to* ANY *chart and trade it *IMMEDIATELY* 


Nice to swap blows again Frank!


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## craft

Interesting discussion.

Seems to me the secret is not in the answers but in the questions that need to be addressed. 

How do I observe the market?

What are MY expectations based on those observations?

What will be MY reactions as MY expectations are proven or disproven?

Understanding MY observation-expectation-reaction patters, what is MY plan to expose myself to risk when I am more likely to win more than I loose?  (the elusive positive expectancy edge)

I Invest based on fundamentals yet I think I have much in common with traders because I need to address the same core questions as they do. The answers are obviously different but unless we are religious about OUR version of the answers, that shouldn’t divide us.


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## Mistagear

Howdy,

In the past, on a number of occasions, I have made serious attempts, sometimes unsuccessfully, to start discussions on different trading subjects including the Wyckoff Methods. 
On this particular occasion I was only having a light hearted dig at myself and my beliefs in trading more than anything else, not expecting any deep and meaningful  discussion to emerge. Certainly did not expect to provoke angry responses from one heavy hitter (for whatever reason), and some excellent content in defence from another equally qualified hitter.
Thank you both for taking time to explain your relative positions, especially Tech for expanding knowledge on the subject.
To Frank, am sorry for you that you feel as opposed and closed to this method of trading. I have found it the most rewarding and logical of anything I have traded in over 10yrs of trading for a living.
I dont use any specialised software to identify entry and exit set-ups, have only read a couple of online publications on Wyckoff, preferring to develop my understanding on my own from the basic concept. 
Do use money management position sizing in conjunction with Wyckoff. I do not use any indicators, do make use of support/resistance and have been nicknamed as a "price analyst" by friends because my primary inputs are price and volume, cause and affect, effort and result.
Trade Futures in 1min to 1hr increments and equities from 5mins to 5days. My Wyckoff methods work on all timeframes but are particularly pleasant when used on Volume based charts.
If someone finds benefit or logic in Wyckoff, thats great, if not then thats fine also, I'm not trying to convert anyone, purely sharing my experiences if you are interested.

Cheers, M

PS. Have listened to a couple of Tradeguider webinars, personally I do see their desire to market a product but dont think they are particularly interested in having people understand the underlying Wyckoff concept.


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## tech/a

Mistagear

Exactly as I have found it and how I approach it. VSA
Never thought I'd read it from anyone on forums!

More suprising to me than the Market--- you understand.


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## pavilion103

Mistagear said:


> Howdy,
> 
> In the past, on a number of occasions, I have made serious attempts, sometimes unsuccessfully, to start discussions on different trading subjects including the Wyckoff Methods.
> On this particular occasion I was only having a light hearted dig at myself and my beliefs in trading more than anything else, not expecting any deep and meaningful  discussion to emerge. Certainly did not expect to provoke angry responses from one heavy hitter (for whatever reason), and some excellent content in defence from another equally qualified hitter.
> Thank you both for taking time to explain your relative positions, especially Tech for expanding knowledge on the subject.
> To Frank, am sorry for you that you feel as opposed and closed to this method of trading. I have found it the most rewarding and logical of anything I have traded in over 10yrs of trading for a living.
> I dont use any specialised software to identify entry and exit set-ups, have only read a couple of online publications on Wyckoff, preferring to develop my understanding on my own from the basic concept.
> Do use money management position sizing in conjunction with Wyckoff. I do not use any indicators, do make use of support/resistance and have been nicknamed as a "price analyst" by friends because my primary inputs are price and volume, cause and affect, effort and result.
> Trade Futures in 1min to 1hr increments and equities from 5mins to 5days. My Wyckoff methods work on all timeframes but are particularly pleasant when used on Volume based charts.
> If someone finds benefit or logic in Wyckoff, thats great, if not then thats fine also, I'm not trying to convert anyone, purely sharing my experiences if you are interested.
> 
> Cheers, M
> 
> PS. Have listened to a couple of Tradeguider webinars, personally I do see their desire to market a product but dont think they are particularly interested in having people understand the underlying Wyckoff concept.




Hey mate, what are some of the best Wyckoff publications that you have read? I've read "How I Trade and Invest in Stocks and Bonds", but wondering if any stand out, or if I can't go too wrong by reading through as much of his material as possible?


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## Mistagear

pavilion103 said:


> Hey mate, what are some of the best Wyckoff publications that you have read? I've read "How I Trade and Invest in Stocks and Bonds", but wondering if any stand out, or if I can't go too wrong by reading through as much of his material as possible?





Hi Pav,

Just looked on an old drive to recall what I had read. Within these Pdf publications I found sufficient material develop an understanding of Wyckoff's methods. 

Wyckoff Method of Tape Reading Doc
Wyckoff Laws and Tests Doc
Wyckoff Wave Doc.

The gem is within the basic.

If you Google the title's am sure the info will still be available.

Cheers, M


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## pavilion103

How important is it to know figure charts? Going through the course "Trading and Investing in Stock" there is a fair bit on this. 

Does anyone use this in conjunction with their regular charts or is there less need today when updating regular charts isn't time intensive?


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## tech/a

pavilion103 said:


> How important is it to know figure charts? Going through the course "Trading and Investing in Stock" there is a fair bit on this.
> 
> Does anyone use this in conjunction with their regular charts or is there less need today when updating regular charts isn't time intensive?




Don't use P&F at all.


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## pavilion103

I've now finished reading "The Richard D. Wyckoff Method of Trading and Investing in Stocks."

It seems like it would be beneficial for me to read through this course at least 4-5 times before even looking at anything else. 
He says that the methods are complete and it is not wise to mix it with other methods. 

He is very much against using other technical patterns such as "triangles, wedges etc..." and a lot of the stuff that the average person would use in the markets without knowing why they use them. 

I feel that there is more useful information in this one course than almost everything else I've read combined (about 20 books). I've learnt a lot of the previous 9 months since I have been studying the markets but this resonates with me the most. 

I'm very excited to go into more depth and thoroughly review this method many many times until my understanding is good enough to trade it. 

My mind is not closed to anything else but I haven't found anything as yet which appeals to me as much as this does.


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## tech/a

pavilion103 said:


> I've now finished reading "The Richard D. Wyckoff Method of Trading and Investing in Stocks."
> 
> It seems like it would be beneficial for me to read through this course at least 4-5 times before even looking at anything else.
> He says that the methods are complete and it is not wise to mix it with other methods.
> 
> He is very much against using other technical patterns such as "triangles, wedges etc..." and a lot of the stuff that the average person would use in the markets without knowing why they use them.
> 
> I feel that there is more useful information in this one course than almost everything else I've read combined (about 20 books). I've learnt a lot of the previous 9 months since I have been studying the markets but this resonates with me the most.
> 
> I'm very excited to go into more depth and thoroughly review this method many many times until my understanding is good enough to trade it.
> 
> My mind is not closed to anything else but I haven't found anything as yet which appeals to me as much as this does.




Just a word of *warning* from someone who has used VSA for a few years.
While it is an amazing tool it will take quite sometime before you *ACTUALLY* get your head around it.If you cant associate with the reading of volume being almost the exact opposite of what is commonly accepted then you haven't yet grasped it.

VSA spits out signal after signal. These signals are *POSSIBILITIES ONLY*
If you take a signal to be gospel in its own right you'll be bitterly disappointed with your trading and VSA.

Some hints.
(1) On trends look for signals with the trend.
(2) On reversals look at where a likely reversal will occur---Support/Resistance and watch for signals supporting either the *REVERSAL VIEW *or the* CONTINUATION VIEW*
(3) If trading futures swing trading is excellent when you understand reversals.
(4) Most setups are multi bar.
(5) Much of the benefit of VSA analysis is *NOT TAUGHT*. You'll see what I mean as you watch 1000s of hrs of charts!
(6) Low volume in the right place at the right time will tell you more than the high volume *PRECEDING* it! Thats not in any book!
(7) Few can read VSA properly and even fewer can apply it. Be *VERY WARY *of home made code its often way wide of the mark and coded from a background of little knowledge---the *OBVIOUS ISN'T OBVIOUS.*---if you think it is then you *haven't **GOT IT*!

Its worth the effort.


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## Wysiwyg

pavilion103 said:


> My mind is not closed to anything else but I haven't found anything as yet which appeals to me as much as this does.



 Wondering if you know why the Wyckoff method appeals?


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## pavilion103

Wysiwyg said:


> Wondering if you know why the Wyckoff method appeals?




Wyckoff seems to be able to read the behaviour of the market well. 
His methods are helping me understand WHY the market behaves as it does. A lot of other things I have read don't tend to give this insight. The fact that much of it is contrary to popular beliefs also appeals to me because I know the majority of people are losing money. 
Supply and Demand are the factors driving the market and I feel that the better understanding I can get of this, the closer I am to understanding why the market behaves as it does.


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## pavilion103

tech/a said:


> Just a word of *warning* from someone who has used VSA for a few years.
> While it is an amazing tool it will take quite sometime before you *ACTUALLY* get your head around it.If you cant associate with the reading of volume being almost the exact opposite of what is commonly accepted then you haven't yet grasped it.
> 
> VSA spits out signal after signal. These signals are *POSSIBILITIES ONLY*
> If you take a signal to be gospel in its own right you'll be bitterly disappointed with your trading and VSA.
> 
> Some hints.
> (1) On trends look for signals with the trend.
> (2) On reversals look at where a likely reversal will occur---Support/Resistance and watch for signals supporting either the *REVERSAL VIEW *or the* CONTINUATION VIEW*
> (3) If trading futures swing trading is excellent when you understand reversals.
> (4) Most setups are multi bar.
> (5) Much of the benefit of VSA analysis is *NOT TAUGHT*. You'll see what I mean as you watch 1000s of hrs of charts!
> (6) Low volume in the right place at the right time will tell you more than the high volume *PRECEDING* it! Thats not in any book!
> (7) Few can read VSA properly and even fewer can apply it. Be *VERY WARY *of home made code its often way wide of the mark and coded from a background of little knowledge---the *OBVIOUS ISN'T OBVIOUS.*---if you think it is then you *haven't **GOT IT*!
> 
> Its worth the effort.




Thanks for posting this. 

There is MUCH MUCH work ahead of me. I couldn't care less about a timeframe for being profitable, my focus is on diligently studying, observing and applying these principles. 


It's tough because there are no hard or fast mechanical rules but obviously things to look for. I am going through the course a second time now and creating notes with some general guidlines, keeping in mind that that is all they are - guidlines.


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## Wysiwyg

pavilion103 said:


> Supply and Demand are the factors driving the market and I feel that the better understanding I can get of this, the closer I am to understanding why the market behaves as it does.



 Okay thanks. I suppose resource demand is keeping our market resilient to a degree from the debt issues in Europe/USA.


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## pavilion103

One question for Tech or anyone else proficient in VSA:

I am so used to buying mainly breakouts. So that is often clear when to enter and often there is no overhead resistance to worry about.

When I look to enter on a down wave on, say a minor selling climax with positive volume indications, what are the best signs for me to look for to determine if price will THEN be able to push through the resistance to the left?

I guess I am so used to entering above resistance that I haven't thought to much about it before. Any time I'd approach new resistance previously, I would just tighten my stop. But in terms of pushing up through resistance I'm not so sure. 

One thing I can think of is that pushing through the resistance is more likely if the stock shows little effort on the decline (no supply).

Once again, forgive my ignorance. I've been working through this for 10 hours so far today and some input would assist me greatly


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## joea

tech/a said:


> Just a word of *warning* from someone who has used VSA for a few years.
> While it is an amazing tool it will take quite sometime before you *ACTUALLY* get your head around it.If you cant associate with the reading of volume being almost the exact opposite of what is commonly accepted then you haven't yet grasped it.
> 
> VSA spits out signal after signal. These signals are *POSSIBILITIES ONLY*
> If you take a signal to be gospel in its own right you'll be bitterly disappointed with your trading and VSA.
> 
> Some hints.
> (1) On trends look for signals with the trend.
> (2) On reversals look at where a likely reversal will occur---Support/Resistance and watch for signals supporting either the *REVERSAL VIEW *or the* CONTINUATION VIEW*
> (3) If trading futures swing trading is excellent when you understand reversals.
> (4) Most setups are multi bar.
> (5) Much of the benefit of VSA analysis is *NOT TAUGHT*. You'll see what I mean as you watch 1000s of hrs of charts!
> (6) Low volume in the right place at the right time will tell you more than the high volume *PRECEDING* it! Thats not in any book!
> (7) Few can read VSA properly and even fewer can apply it. Be *VERY WARY *of home made code its often way wide of the mark and coded from a background of little knowledge---the *OBVIOUS ISN'T OBVIOUS.*---if you think it is then you *haven't **GOT IT*!
> 
> Its worth the effort.




Hi Tech/a.

I have seen mentioned, you may produce a book.
I have concluded from your many posts(rightly or wrongly by me), that you have seen many concepts of trading strategies.
I have as well, and what is noticable is the concepts that are common, and the concepts that would help.

In this post above I see how you are putting it together.

If you get to the book stage, I would like to be on the purchase list.

Because I believe the book you will produce, will be a methodical approach to trading by choosing the good points from many concepts.( the ones that fit together).
As you have mentioned before, price and volume form the complete picture.

But the different pictures are invisible to most.

The reason I have posted is, I have just read "Charting the Stock Market" the Wyckoff Method. I have also read Master the Markets.

As you proceed to accumulate a trading education, you come to realise the mental stimulation as you put the concepts together.
No doubt you have more than one objective than( to trade profitably).

Hopefully your efforts will be rewarded.( i have no doubt they will).

joea


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## tech/a

Joea.

There is a well known educator in the process of producing a book exactly as you describe.I've been fortunate enough to have a sneak peak at a snippet of one aspect of the book.
Let me say its left me wanting more.

As for me.
My idea is to do a joint publication with my Son.
Having a PHD in the mix won't be that tardy when it comes to content.
Way way off in the distance I'm afraid as we are both terribly busy particularly Kris.
But the basis has been discussed.

In the meantime there is a promising book just around the corner which isn't mine.


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## joea

Hi.
Amazon has released an alert for those who are interested in a preorder for "Trades About to Happen, (A modern Adaption of the Wyckoff Method".

I thought it appropiate I posted on this thread as well.( However i do not know if it will be a good book). Hopefully it will.
joea


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## pavilion103

Tech/a and others...

I came across the book, "Trading in the Shadow of the Smart Money," (Vol 2) by Gavin Holmes.

It is basically a summary of signs of strength/weakness from the notes they use in Tradeguider. There are two sections 1. Signs of Weakness 2. Signs of Strength.

Has anyone come across this one? Handy summary.


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## tech/a

Have it
It's best to have the software as you can see the bars labeled.
You can see how they fit.
Reading and attempting to identify the setups is far from successful for most.


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## joea

Well I have worked out one thing.
Anything that is free from Tradeguider has a catch to it.
Look closely at all the freebees, then link the associated costs.
Then link the mentor programs to it because, what you purchased still does not give the complete picture.
joea


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## tech/a

joea said:


> Well I have worked out one thing.
> Anything that is free from Tradeguider has a catch to it.
> Look closely at all the freebees, then link the associated costs.
> Then link the mentor programs to it because, what you purchased still does not give the complete picture.
> joea




I agree

They have taken a very good trading methodology and packaged it with so much WHO HA you cant define what's needed and what's not.
Its pretty clear what's making the green and its NOT VSA trading.

mind you its also a very good exercise in marketing.
it certainly works.
They also bring in clients who are enthusiastic about Tradeguider and put them up as experts on a video.

"Look you too can be one of these guys/gals"!

Bill Williams must be shaking his head.
You know I think he really was and is passionate about the art of trading.
Its been lost some what with Gavin's machine---


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## joea

joea said:


> Hi.
> Amazon has released an alert for those who are interested in a preorder for "Trades About to Happen, (A modern Adaption of the Wyckoff Method".
> 
> joea




Well  "Trades about to Happen", has been postponed 4 times and it will not be available until 2013.
One can only assume the book will not be printed and released until pre - orders cover the costs of the first run, and that has not happened.
joea p.s. only had two chapters in Charting the Stock Market.


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## tech/a

joea said:


> Well  "Trades about to Happen", has been postponed 4 times and it will not be available until 2013.
> One can only assume the book will not be printed and released until pre - orders cover the costs of the first run, and that has not happened.
> joea p.s. only had two chapters in Charting the Stock Market.




Im hopeful that this book goes (as it should) well beyond the pure signal (Which Tradeguider Algorithms show) after all the signal is nothing more than a setup generated by a single/double or multiple bar/s.

Most of these types of books fall way way short in helping traders apply the indicators of "Trades About to happen" into a profitable methodology.

Id also like to see some testing on the suggested methodology to see how profitable these "Trades about to happen" can actually be.

Now *THAT WOULD BE A BOOK*---wouldnt it!


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## joea

tech/a said:


> Im hopeful that this book goes (as it should) well beyond the pure signal (Which Tradeguider Algorithms show) after all the signal is nothing more than a setup generated by a single/double or multiple bar/s.
> 
> Most of these types of books fall way way short in helping traders apply the indicators of "Trades About to happen" into a profitable methodology.
> 
> Id also like to see some testing on the suggested methodology to see how profitable these "Trades about to happen" can actually be.
> 
> Now *THAT WOULD BE A BOOK*---wouldnt it!




Yes it would, but I am worried about my longevity to read it!!
joea


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## joea

Trades About to Happen, has once again been postponed to March - April 2013.
I have edited  my pre-order  postal address on Amazon " to the after life".
My local postie has been advised!!!!! :bananasmi
joe p.s. Thank god Nick came to the rescue with something good to read.


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## joea

Trades About to Happen.
Has now be postponed to June - July 2013.

joea


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## tech/a

joea said:


> Trades About to Happen.
> Has now be postponed to June - July 2013.
> 
> joea




Now if you published a book that didn't deliver----that would stuff your product up wouldn't it?


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## joea

tech/a said:


> Now if you published a book that didn't deliver----that would stuff your product up wouldn't it?




Gotcha!!
joea


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## antiguatech

tech/a said:


> Now if you published a book that didn't deliver----that would stuff your product up wouldn't it?




Is the book available already?


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## tech/a

antiguatech said:


> Is the book available already?






joea said:


> Trades About to Happen.
> Has now be postponed to June - July 2013.
> 
> joea




God is it July 2013 already


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## pavilion103

As a part of my regular study I've spent some of today reading over "The Richard D. Wyckoff Method of Trading and Investing in Stocks" again. 

I'm loving the wealth of information that this book contains. 

Having read about 30 trading books since I commenced my study (only 2 or 3 in the last year), I find the most beneficial use of my time in terms of reading materials is to go over this book again and again and again. 

I particularly read and re-read chapter 7 with the practical analysis and charts. I seem to get so much out of it every time.


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## tech/a

You might also look into Todd Krueger's stuff.
Another step sideways and along side.

http://www.traderscode.com/

I've got all his stuff.


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## pavilion103

tech/a said:


> You might also look into Todd Krueger's stuff.
> Another step sideways and along side.
> 
> http://www.traderscode.com/
> 
> I've got all his stuff.




http://www.traderscode.com/wyckoff-analysis-series-modules-1---2.html

Worth it?


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## tech/a

pavilion103 said:


> http://www.traderscode.com/wyckoff-analysis-series-modules-1---2.html
> 
> Worth it?




At that price I think so.
I paid $995 !!! that was 3 yrs ago.

He certainly goes into combining other important
analysis with Wyckoff.
He has been talking about a new software with all of that which he teaches
built into it.
Its been coming out for years!! Yet to see it.
But Ill buy it when it does appear.

http://www.traderscode.com/software.html


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## aarbee

Hello all,

"Trades About to Happen, (A modern Adaption of the Wyckoff Method" by David Weis has now been released by Amazon and can also be bought from the author's website.

Cheers


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## pavilion103

aarbee said:


> Hello all,
> 
> "Trades About to Happen, (A modern Adaption of the Wyckoff Method" by David Weis has now been released by Amazon and can also be bought from the author's website.
> 
> Cheers




Sensational.

I'm not sure what the cheapest option is with shipping. I ordered it from book depository which was $53 including shipping.


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## aarbee

Hi Pav,
I purchased it from Amazon and was bundled with some other books to reduce shipping costs. From the author's website it would cost a bit more than $53 but one can get a signed copy. 

I am a new student of Wyckoff method and would like to know something from you. 
I have started my reading with "Master the Markets" which is reputedly a good primer. I then plan to go on to "The Richard D. Wyckoff Method of Trading and Investing in Stock". 
I have the various videos etc by TradeGuider (though I don't have the software) and I also have the Wyckoff course. A helluva lot to learn and resources to go through. Since you have recently gone through the whole material, please let me know your opinion on the most effective progression in reading on the subject. 

Thanks


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## pavilion103

aarbee said:


> Hi Pav,
> I purchased it from Amazon and was bundled with some other books to reduce shipping costs. From the author's website it would cost a bit more than $53 but one can get a signed copy.
> 
> I am a new student of Wyckoff method and would like to know something from you.
> I have started my reading with "Master the Markets" which is reputedly a good primer. I then plan to go on to "The Richard D. Wyckoff Method of Trading and Investing in Stock".
> I have the various videos etc by TradeGuider (though I don't have the software) and I also have the Wyckoff course. A helluva lot to learn and resources to go through. Since you have recently gone through the whole material, please let me know your opinion on the most effective progression in reading on the subject.
> 
> Thanks




I have a very particular way of learning and I quite like the approach. Maybe a bit full on for some. 

I create files on my computer for any topic and make notes. So under trading I've got a specific folder called VSA and under that I have word documents about specific components of it. So for example I might read about "upthrusts" or "shakeouts" for the first time. I create a Word document for each and title it. As I read more on the topic that stands out to me, I update these files. By the time I've read through a stack of material I have a summary of notes for each little aspect which is much easier to refer back to specifically than by finding what I want among the vast array of materials in the books. 

My method of progression. 

1) I like the idea of starting with "Master the Markets" it's not too heavy, a good introduction. That will change the way of thinking about the markets. 

2) By this stage I have a lot of notes typed out. I'll have a read over my notes to refresh the key points. 

3) I love "The Richard D. Wyckoff Method of Trading and Investing in Stock". This is my primary educational tool on the topic. 
I would recommend reading through this twice. 
THEN I would focus most of my efforts on Section 7 of this course which is the practical application on a hypothetical chart example. 

I 'd recommend reading over Section 7 once a month or every two months until you have a really good understanding. 
Then I'd refer to it less frequently. I still go back over it now and have a read. 

4) If you'd continued to write up those notes you will now have notes covering pretty much every aspect of the study and you can refer back to these in a less time consuming way. 



Just my way of doing it. I am very detail focused!


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## tech/a

The best advice I can give to budding VSA students in fact any technical discipline is that 
The analysis in it's specifics is a sentence in a story not the story.

Components of analysis are useless without practical application.
Both when proven true and false.
You can enter the story at the beginning middle or end.
Be sure you know how to apply your analysis VSA or whatever
To YOUR story. Analysis is like religion ----- full of false prophets! ( profits )


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## banco

"Trades About to Happen, (A modern Adaption of the Wyckoff Method" by David Weis is a good book but I didn't think there was that much new in it. 

Adam Grimes book has almost as much wyckoff stuff in it as well as other stuff that I haven't seen elsewhere.


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## aarbee

pavilion103 said:


> I have a very particular way of learning and I quite like the approach. Maybe a bit full on for some.
> 
> I create files on my computer for any topic and make notes. So under trading I've got a specific folder called VSA and under that I have word documents about specific components of it. So for example I might read about "upthrusts" or "shakeouts" for the first time. I create a Word document for each and title it. As I read more on the topic that stands out to me, I update these files. By the time I've read through a stack of material I have a summary of notes for each little aspect which is much easier to refer back to specifically than by finding what I want among the vast array of materials in the books.
> 
> My method of progression.
> 
> 1) I like the idea of starting with "Master the Markets" it's not too heavy, a good introduction. That will change the way of thinking about the markets.
> 
> 2) By this stage I have a lot of notes typed out. I'll have a read over my notes to refresh the key points.
> 
> 3) I love "The Richard D. Wyckoff Method of Trading and Investing in Stock". This is my primary educational tool on the topic.
> I would recommend reading through this twice.
> THEN I would focus most of my efforts on Section 7 of this course which is the practical application on a hypothetical chart example.
> 
> I 'd recommend reading over Section 7 once a month or every two months until you have a really good understanding.
> Then I'd refer to it less frequently. I still go back over it now and have a read.
> 
> 4) If you'd continued to write up those notes you will now have notes covering pretty much every aspect of the study and you can refer back to these in a less time consuming way.
> 
> 
> 
> Just my way of doing it. I am very detail focused!




Thanks for that.  That's how I learn too. 
Best regards


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## tech/a

banco said:


> "Trades About to Happen, (A modern Adaption of the Wyckoff Method" by David Weis is a good book but I didn't think there was that much new in it.
> 
> Adam Grimes book has almost as much wyckoff stuff in it as well as other stuff that I haven't seen elsewhere.




Got my copy here.

Janene Murdoch
Plaza Level
Educated Investor Bookshop
500 Collins Street
Melbourne   VIC   3000

Ph (03) 9620 0885

info@educatedinvestor.com.au
www.educatedinvestor.com.au


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## pavilion103

Fairly short book 

Looks like a reasonably light read, especially if you already have a good understanding of Wyckoff.

Shouldn't take long.


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## pavilion103

lol @ the extreme reviews on Amazon ranging from giving it one star because there is no zero stars option, to "the best trading and investing book ever". 
I guess this is the same as any book review. 

Had a flick through last night. Looks good. Will hopefully read it shortly.


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## fiftyeight

Where did you find "The Richard D. Wyckoff Method of Trading and Investing in Stocks"? I keep getting dodgy looking sites.

Cheers


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## pavilion103

fiftyeight said:


> Where did you find "The Richard D. Wyckoff Method of Trading and Investing in Stocks"? I keep getting dodgy looking sites.  Cheers




PM me your email address


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## kid hustlr

pavilion103 said:


> PM me your email address




Pav, any chance you could help me out with this as well?

EDIT: will send you a PM


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## pavilion103

kid hustlr said:


> Pav, any chance you could help me out with this as well?  EDIT: will send you a PM




Of course. Yeh PM me.


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## jjbinks

Are there any new books people would recommend 3 years later


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## tech/a

I think there is a place for a new one.
The application of VSA wouldn't go astray.

As its stands its been marketed more as a blanket tool which gives indications of
price action which can be acted upon in either naïve or sophisticated ways.

*Naïve*
Just buy and sell signals and get frustrated and smashed at the same time.

*Sophisticated*
Combined with Background Analysis/Testing of various setups in various conditions/
Application of Risk Measures/Trade and Money Management.

You can read/code/indicate until your Blue in the face but you wont profit from this or ANYOTHER
analysis without having vast experience in the application of your trade.
And NOW
You have the tools to determine wether your application actually gives you an edge---before you apply it!


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## barney

jjbinks said:


> Are there any new books people would recommend 3 years later




Also 3 years later I wonder what happened to Pav?  He became unwell from memory so hopefully going ok.


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## tech/a

Talked with pav about 8 mths ago.
Was doing much better. Not trading
I think he was re evaluating his priorities.


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## stockjock314

If any one needs help with anthing related to Wyckoff please feel free to drop me a line, I can help and would be happy to help.


----------

