# Australia... wake up time!



## joea (23 May 2011)

When the shearing sheds are silent and the stock camps fallen quiet
When the gidgee coals no longer glow across the outback night
And the bush is forced to hang a sign, "gone broke and won't be back"
And spirits fear to find a way beyond the beaten track

When harvesters stand derelict upon the wind swept plains
And brave hearts pin their hopes no more on chance of loving rains
When a hundred outback settlements are ghost towns overnight
When we've lost the drive and heart we had to once more see us right

When "Pioneer" means a stero and "Digger" some backhoe
And the "Outback" is behind the house. there's nowhere else to go
And "Anzac" is a biscuit brand and probably foreign owned
And education really means brainwashed and neatly cloned

When you have to bake a loaf of bread to make a decent crust
And our heritage once enshrined in gold is crumbling in the dust
And old folk pay their camping fees on land for which they fought
And fishing is a great escape; this is until you're caught

When you see our kids with yankee caps and resentment in their eyes
And the soaring crime and hopeless hearts is no longer a suprise
When the name of RM Williams is a yuppie clothing brand
Not a product of our heritage that grew off the land

When offering a hand makes people think you'll amputate
And two dogs meeting in the street is what you call a "Mate"
When "Political Correctness" has replaced all common sense
When you're forced to see it their way, there's no sitting on the fence

Yes one day you will find yourself an outcast in this land
Perhaps your heart will tell you then, "I should have made a stand"
Just go and ask the farmers that should remove all doubt
Then join the swelling ranks who say. "don't sell Australia out"

Author Unknown

Cheers


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## moXJO (23 May 2011)

*Re: Australia.....wake up time.*

Oh I thought you meant this
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/make-carbon-tax-hurt-julia-gillard-advised/story-fn59niix-1226060946662



> ONE of Julia Gillard's top climate advisers says climate change denial is a luxury the world can no longer afford, declaring the decisions Australian politicians make now will affect future generations




Climate rapture time


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## ChaoSI (23 May 2011)

*Re: Australia.....wake up time.*



joea said:


> When the shearing sheds are silent and the stock camps fallen quiet
> When the gidgee coals no longer glow across the outback night
> And the bush is forced to hang a sign, "gone broke and won't be back"
> And spirits fear to find a way beyond the beaten track
> ...




damn nice rhymes...
eerie but nice


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## pixel (23 May 2011)

*Re: Australia.....wake up time.*



moXJO said:


> Oh I thought you meant this
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...-gillard-advised/story-fn59niix-1226060946662
> 
> Climate rapture time



A Big Thankyou, Joe, for posting that song. Now we only need a Ted Egan or Keith KidMAN to perform it.
... and Judgment Day may well come *before* the next election.


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## noco (23 May 2011)

*Re: Australia.....wake up time.*

Just listened to Bob Katter on an interview on Sky News with his proposal for a new political party.
He reminded us how our manufacturing industry has gone overseas. He mentioned how our sheep population has been reduced to 25% from the 50's and cattle down to 80%.
He talked about the closure of sugar mills in North Queensland and possibility of the dairy industry about fold in Malanda.
The vehicle industry reduced from 80% to 17% in the past 30 years.
Xstrata is about to close the smelting of copper in Mt Isa and the closure of the copper refinery in Townsville.
With the rise in the Australian dollar to somewhere about $1.50 and the prospects of further interest rises, out Tourism will be shot to pieces.
He makes perfect sense when he says we must go in a different direction.
If we don't, then all I can see is Australia becoming a socialist state whereby all industry, banks and mining will become national property.


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## pixel (23 May 2011)

*Re: Australia... wake up time*

btw, the author is Chris Long; the verse has been published under the title 
*"The Australia that I knew"*


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## moXJO (23 May 2011)

*Re: Australia.....wake up time.*



noco said:


> Just listened to Bob Katter on an interview on Sky News with his proposal for a new political party.
> He reminded us how our manufacturing industry has gone overseas. He mentioned how our sheep population has been reduced to 25% from the 50's and cattle down to 80%.
> He talked about the closure of sugar mills in North Queensland and possibility of the dairy industry about fold in Malanda.
> The vehicle industry reduced from 80% to 17% in the past 30 years.
> ...




Katter seems pro socialism


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## wayneL (23 May 2011)

*Re: Australia.....wake up time.*



moXJO said:


> Katter seems pro socialism




All farming folk are pro socialism... even if they don't realize that.


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## joea (23 May 2011)

*Re: Australia... wake up time*



pixel said:


> btw, the author is Chris Long; the verse has been published under the title
> *"The Australia that I knew"*




Thanks pixel I have downloaded it from his site to frame.
joea


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## joea (23 May 2011)

*Re: Australia.....wake up time.*



moXJO said:


> Katter seems pro socialism




Well I just happened to be watching that, and thought just what we need.
With another party splitting the votes nobody will know where we are going.

I suppose he has not been in the news lately, so it will get him some TV time.
Cheers


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## pixel (23 May 2011)

*Re: Australia.....wake up time.*



wayneL said:


> All farming folk are pro socialism... even if they don't realize that.



 Not only the farming folk, WL;
If you're losing, it's hard not to facour socialism: socialize the losses, that is.
If you're on a winning streak, however, you're happy to privatize all the profits.

But then again, there's this old saw:_*
If you're 17 and not a socialist, you haven't got a heart.
If you're 37 and still a socialist, you haven't got brains.*_


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## Calliope (23 May 2011)

*Re: Australia.....wake up time.*



noco said:


> He makes perfect sense when he says we must go in a different direction.
> If we don't, then all I can see is Australia becoming a socialist state whereby all industry, banks and mining will become national property.




Wait on! Last time I looked, Katter was helping to prop up the socialist Gillard government.


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## bandicoot76 (23 May 2011)

*Re: Australia.....wake up time.*



wayneL said:


> All farming folk are pro socialism... even if they don't realize that.




WRONG!!! well probably 90% wrong anyway.... most farmers are libertarian not socialist.


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## bandicoot76 (23 May 2011)

*Re: Australia.....wake up time.*



Calliope said:


> Wait on! Last time I looked, Katter was helping to prop up the socialist Gillard government.




wrong.... the other two dropkick so-called independants are propping up the ginger snatched weasel.... katter remains a non-aligned independant!


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## bandicoot76 (23 May 2011)

*Re: Australia.....wake up time.*



joea said:


> Well I just happened to be watching that, and thought just what we need.
> With another party splitting the votes nobody will know where we are going.
> 
> I suppose he has not been in the news lately, so it will get him some TV time.
> Cheers




bob katter is the one politician in australia who hasnt sold his soul to the parasites, while some of his opinions might seem abit weird to ppl in the big smoke he is merely doing what he is paid to do... REPRESENT HIS ELECTORATE!!! its a damn shame a few more of our elected spineless jellyfish dont follow his lead, if not his stance on certain issues! katter is the closest thing we have to a ron paul... we need more ppl of this calibre in our govt IMHO


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## wayneL (23 May 2011)

*Re: Australia.....wake up time.*



bandicoot76 said:


> WRONG!!! well probably 90% wrong anyway.... most farmers are libertarian not socialist.




LOL

Look again


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## joea (23 May 2011)

*Re: Australia.....wake up time.*



bandicoot76 said:


> bob katter is the one politician in australia who hasnt sold his soul to the parasites, while some of his opinions might seem abit weird to ppl in the big smoke he is merely doing what he is paid to do... REPRESENT HIS ELECTORATE!!! its a damn shame a few more of our elected spineless jellyfish dont follow his lead, if not his stance on certain issues! katter is the closest thing we have to a ron paul... we need more ppl of this calibre in our govt IMHO




Actually I am from the sugar industry and have run into Katter a few times.
About 15 years ago Katter was trying to get people interested in the food bowl from the North. He basically said the water is in the north, the South will dry up , we should be looking at the north of Australia to feed us(not Nth. Qld) the North of Australia. 
Kunarra is one of those places where the boat people could work initially , then if accepted by Australia, given an opportunity to have a business growing food.
I can assure you once they get into a city the government would not have a clue what they do.

You have not got to be a Rhode schollar to understand they should work.
If they do not want to work, then they are loaded onto HMAS p**s off!!
Cheers.


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## bandicoot76 (23 May 2011)

*Re: Australia.....wake up time.*



joea said:


> Actually I am from the sugar industry and have run into Katter a few times.
> About 15 years ago Katter was trying to get people interested in the food bowl from the North. He basically said the water is in the north, the South will dry up , we should be looking at the north of Australia to feed us(not Nth. Qld) the North of Australia.
> Kunarra is one of those places where the boat people could work initially , then if accepted by Australia, given an opportunity to have a business growing food.
> I can assure you once they get into a city the government would not have a clue what they do.
> ...




i understand your sentiment (hmas p*ssoff) but not the context with which it relates to my post... please elaborate...


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## bandicoot76 (23 May 2011)

*Re: Australia.....wake up time.*



wayneL said:


> LOL
> 
> Look again




ok i'll meet you 1/2 way .... 60/40??? ...lol... only the useless ones who need bailing out are closet socialists... & they are the ones who need the constant advice of consultants, so you cant really call them farmers anyway... more like temporary agricultural landholders....lol!


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## noco (23 May 2011)

*Re: Australia.....wake up time.*



moXJO said:


> Katter seems pro socialism




How could anyone brand Katter a pro socialist. 

Could you elaborate on your consenses?


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## moXJO (23 May 2011)

*Re: Australia.....wake up time.*



noco said:


> How could anyone brand Katter a pro socialist.
> 
> Could you elaborate on your consenses?




Tarriffs, backing unions, protectionism?
 There was more but it has slipped my mind
Is agrarian socialist the term they use?


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## joea (24 May 2011)

*Re: Australia.....wake up time.*



bandicoot76 said:


> i understand your sentiment (hmas p*ssoff) but not the context with which it relates to my post... please elaborate...




Well the direction he may take, is to implement some good common sense ideas, that have been kicked about.
The party he is talking about, maybe serious or a threat to make the major parties wake up to this "political fight" they are having.
So I added this thought  from some time back to point out he may have some good ideas.
After all the ORD River scheme is somewhat of a foodbowl.

Finally the political party in government should be compiling all the good ideas of each party. Instead they rubbish the others ideas, and change something that works.

A example of this in my mind, is the boat people.

Bob should be taken seriously on some of his thoughts.

Cheers


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## joea (24 May 2011)

Bob Katter will know that at this point in time China and USA are competing to purchase Tully Sugar Mill in Nth. Qld.

The government does not appear to want to look after our sugar industry.

This is what the poem alludes to.

Cheers


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## bandicoot76 (24 May 2011)

*Re: Australia.....wake up time.*



joea said:


> Well the direction he may take, is to implement some good common sense ideas, that have been kicked about.
> The party he is talking about, maybe serious or a threat to make the major parties wake up to this "political fight" they are having.
> So I added this thought  from some time back to point out he may have some good ideas.
> After all the ORD River scheme is somewhat of a foodbowl.
> ...




agreed!


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## bandicoot76 (24 May 2011)

*Re: Australia.....wake up time.*



moXJO said:


> Tarriffs, backing unions, protectionism?
> There was more but it has slipped my mind
> Is agrarian socialist the term they use?




i think you'll find he's more saying its unfair to australian producers competing against overseas imports as we are definately not  on a 'level playiong field' when it comes to input costs of production... how can a country paying its workers in a week what overseas countrys pay their workers in a month or even a year be on a level playing field when it comes to trade?

i'll give you an example... a customer of mine fabricates modular cattle yard panels, his input costs are about $100 per panel, he sells them for $110 per panel ($10 profit after costs)... he is now going out of business because chinese panels of similar quality are being imported and sold here now for $85 per panel... $15 less than he can buy the materials for!!  

does that sound like fair trading conditions to you? not a very level playing field IMO!

it is situations like this that need to be adressed before free trade becomes acceptable as i fail to see how australias manufacturing base will survive... our wealth base depends on production, a 'services' based economy is doomed to fail! im all for an international trading system but we need a system of trade where we are not putting ourselves at such a disadvantage.... at the moment we just cant compete as our imput costs are so much higher, our taxes are so much higher and we are bound head to foot with regulations and bureaucratic red tape that our international competitors are not impeded with!

i dont think its realistic to call bob katter a socialist simply because he wants to adress this issue!


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## Glen48 (24 May 2011)

Level playing field thats the one with the cliff in the middle, how any one could suggest the world needs a Level playing field clearly has never been out side his city.
 Here in the Philippines they still use carbon paper so no worries about  carbon tax, dot matrix printers, no has the ph on,pay as you go mobiles,  1 fax machine that I know of, set up shop any where and work on the footpath, no concerns about safety, wages are about $5 per day and all want to go to OZ.
 The whole manufacturing business is doom there unless you want to move and set up business.


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## noco (24 May 2011)

*Re: Australia.....wake up time.*



moXJO said:


> Tarriffs, backing unions, protectionism?
> There was more but it has slipped my mind
> Is agrarian socialist the term they use?




I went shopping at one of the major chain stores and starting filling a bag with oranges from Egypt. When I realized their place of origin, I immediately replaced them with Australian oranges and yes, the Egyptian oranges were slightly cheaper. I did keep one for trial and found they had very hard thick skin and half the juice of the Australian orange of the same size.
The question I ask is why, when we grow enough here to export ourselves? Is our government trying send our growers to the wall with imported friut.

I went to the Philippines a couple of years ago and purchased several cheap good quality polar shirts at half the cost I could buy in Australia.
Ah yes, moXJO you will say, well that is because of cheap Filipino labour.

Wrong my friend, those shirts were made in the USA. So how could the yanks compete against cheap labour. Well, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to work that one out. 

Is it so wrong for a conservative government to receive union backing? That just happened in Whyalla recently when workers feared losing their jobs to the carbon dioxide tax. Abbott had their backing.

I onced worked for a foundry in North Queensland who employed 220. The government allowed in cast iron access covers from India at half our cost resulting in some 30 jobs lost. The quality was poor and lots of times failed the test. The parent company of that same foundry now import cast iron water fittings from China with a 15% failure. That same foundry is now employing 90.

So if we want to keep our manufacturing industry alive, our farmers in business and our workers in jobs, please tell me how you would go about it all.


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## ghotib (24 May 2011)

Joea, 

Were you the person who talked about getting a cell grazing system going on a property in northern Qld? If  so, you might be interested to know that Joel Salatin will be in Australia in August; info here. If not, apologies for hijacking the thread. 

Ghoti


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## ghotib (24 May 2011)

Aside from questions about international trade, what about the conflicting needs of mining and food production. Long wall coal and coal seam gas exploration and mining pose unquantified risks to ground water and agricultural lands. 

Ghoti


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## Smurf1976 (24 May 2011)

Economists believe in the "level playing field" and the existence of a "free market" in much the same way as a child believes the world to be fair.

Those of us who live in the real world know that the playing field is tilted in favour of whoever is biggest (not us), that markets aren't actually free, that so-called competition doesn't always mean lower prices, and that the world isn't fair.


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## moXJO (25 May 2011)

bandicoot76 said:


> i think you'll find he's more saying its unfair to australian producers competing against overseas imports as we are definately not  on a 'level playiong field' when it comes to input costs of production... how can a country paying its workers in a week what overseas countrys pay their workers in a month or even a year be on a level playing field when it comes to trade?
> 
> i'll give you an example... a customer of mine fabricates modular cattle yard panels, his input costs are about $100 per panel, he sells them for $110 per panel ($10 profit after costs)... he is now going out of business because chinese panels of similar quality are being imported and sold here now for $85 per panel... $15 less than he can buy the materials for!!
> 
> ...






noco said:


> I went shopping at one of the major chain stores and starting filling a bag with oranges from Egypt. When I realized their place of origin, I immediately replaced them with Australian oranges and yes, the Egyptian oranges were slightly cheaper. I did keep one for trial and found they had very hard thick skin and half the juice of the Australian orange of the same size.
> The question I ask is why, when we grow enough here to export ourselves? Is our government trying send our growers to the wall with imported friut.
> 
> I went to the Philippines a couple of years ago and purchased several cheap good quality polar shirts at half the cost I could buy in Australia.
> ...



Lol yeah nice way of jumping the gun boys. Just because you say it ain't so doesn't change the fact either. I have no problems with Katter wanting to protect industry but there are downsides to it as well. 
I was just stating that the quote below from noco is wrong because he is clearly pro socialist policy (unless I'm just not getting what socialism is).
Some Socialist policy doesn't instantly align you with the devil either. Medicare, welfare etc is all a necessary part imo.


noco said:


> He makes perfect sense when he says we must go in a different direction.
> If we don't, then all I can see is Australia becoming a socialist state whereby all industry, banks and mining will become national property.


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## noco (26 May 2011)

moXJO said:


> Lol yeah nice way of jumping the gun boys. Just because you say it ain't so doesn't change the fact either. I have no problems with Katter wanting to protect industry but there are downsides to it as well.
> I was just stating that the quote below from noco is wrong because he is clearly pro socialist policy (unless I'm just not getting what socialism is).
> Some Socialist policy doesn't instantly align you with the devil either. Medicare, welfare etc is all a necessary part imo.




moXJO, with all your rhetoric and side stepping, I still await your answer as to how you would go about saving our manufacturing industries, our farmers and jobs.


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## trainspotter (26 May 2011)

South Park does this topic proud.


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## moXJO (26 May 2011)

noco said:


> moXJO, with all your rhetoric and side stepping, I still await your answer as to how you would go about saving our manufacturing industries, our farmers and jobs.




You never asked that question originally wtf are you on about. The only thing I pointed out is that Katter was pro socialist policy not anti socialist as per your post. You can't save manufacturing in this country unless you place tariffs or tinker with IR and OHS with added tax incentives. And good luck getting that through with the unions if it is to do with ohs and wages. Third world can simply do it cheaper and big business knows it. Farming on the other hand should be a lot more viable as food shortages come through. Problem is we are selling off all the farms to foreign investors anyway.


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## Glen48 (26 May 2011)

The average male age  in the World is 27 where are the experienced workers going to come from? 
Only when we start to run out of food will the feds wake up, and farmers will be more important than bankesters.
The Chinese  can see it and making a move on OZ farms with the FIB help.


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## noco (26 May 2011)

moXJO said:


> You never asked that question originally wtf are you on about. The only thing I pointed out is that Katter was pro socialist policy not anti socialist as per your post. You can't save manufacturing in this country unless you place tariffs or tinker with IR and OHS with added tax incentives. And good luck getting that through with the unions if it is to do with ohs and wages. Third world can simply do it cheaper and big business knows it. Farming on the other hand should be a lot more viable as food shortages come through. Problem is we are selling off all the farms to foreign investors anyway.




moXJO, I asked you the question in post #27 it was mentioned in your post reply #31

                         "How would you solve the problem?"

If we stay on the path this incompentent Labor/Green Party are taking us down, we will end a third world country ourselves and the way the Labor Party are allowing in so many Muslims (near 500,000 last count) into Australia, this could well happen. Some 90% on being paid wellfare from Centre Link. Hence the need for this stupid carbon dioxide tax to pay for these bludgers.

Socialism is one step away from communism and both Gillard and Brown are socialist left as far as they can go.

The Yanks obviously still apply tariffs and also subsidize their manufacturing busness. 

So tell me why are we buying oranges from Egypt? And the last I heard is some crowd are trying to import bananas from the Plilippines, when, apart from cyclone Yasi which wiped out a major part of our crop on NQ., we normally have a glut.

So I shall ask you again, how would you solve the problem? Katter wants to take us in a new direction, and I for one would be most interested to listen to what both you and he have to say.


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## sptrawler (26 May 2011)

Glen48 said:


> The average male age  in the World is 27 where are the experienced workers going to come from?
> Only when we start to run out of food will the feds wake up, and farmers will be more important than bankesters.
> The Chinese  can see it and making a move on OZ farms with the FIB help.




If we give the powers of B some credit and say they do know what they are doing(I doubt it).
However in W.A C.A.L.M is not renewing grazing leases in the Pilbara area on crown land. Maybe they know what we are thinking. I hope so.


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## bandicoot76 (26 May 2011)

moXJO said:


> Lol yeah nice way of jumping the gun boys. Just because you say it ain't so doesn't change the fact either. I have no problems with Katter wanting to protect industry but there are downsides to it as well.
> I was just stating that the quote below from noco is wrong because he is clearly pro socialist policy (unless I'm just not getting what socialism is).
> Some Socialist policy doesn't instantly align you with the devil either. Medicare, welfare etc is all a necessary part imo.




i dont know how you  define socialism but its obviously not the same way i (nor the webster dictionary) define it:

so·cial·ism
 noun \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm\

Definition of SOCIALISM

1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental 
    ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods 


2..a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property 
    b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and  
        controlled by the state 


3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism
    and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done 

NONE of the above define bob katter (nor farmers in general wayne!) i would say both are promoting the diametrically OPPOSITE to socialism...being pro individual rights, private ownership, minimalist govt etc etc (please dont crap on about the much harped cliche of privatise profits/socialise losses garbage either... thats complete rubbish!) katter is a LIBERTARIAN not a socialist.

protecting the national interest cannot simply be defined as socialism, even though socialisam has had many (and opposing) factions hiding behind its banner through the years(nazi=socialism, marxism=socialism)


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## noco (27 May 2011)

bandicoot76 said:


> i dont know how you  define socialism but its obviously not the same way i (nor the webster dictionary) define it:
> 
> so·cial·ism
> noun \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm\
> ...




Thanks for that badicoot76. It should now be very obvious to those branding Katter a socialist that they know very little about Socialism or for that matter, communism.

As I have stated before, Gillard and Brown are leading us down this path with their ideology and if they had public support they would no doubt nationalize banks, mining, agriculture amd industry. Gough Whitlam tried to do it in 1973 and was soon replaced, thanks to our constitution. Under Scolalism/Communism  everything would be owned by the state and their would be no freedom of speech. The Labor Party are doing their best at present to control the media and Brown this week complained about being criticized by some of the media.


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## joea (27 May 2011)

ghotib said:


> Joea,
> 
> Were you the person who talked about getting a cell grazing system going on a property in northern Qld? If  so, you might be interested to know that Joel Salatin will be in Australia in August; info here. If not, apologies for hijacking the thread.
> 
> Ghoti




Thanks for that.
My son in law has purchased a proberty, for cattle, but we inherited 880 mango trees as well. somehow i am helping with the trees. 

He is currently looking at the purchase of cattle of a similar breed to close the herd with quality. (he does not want bits an pieces).
But I will follow that up.

Actually with the trees i allowed grass to grow, then mowed and threw it back under the trees(no poisons) and there is no more bare ground. the trees have flourished.

I should probably apologise to anyone I have not answered, but I am a bit busy with, the trees, my injured son and my block which is 8500 meteres with a 16 x 8 metre tropical garden for vegetables. I only trade part time, but enjoy the forum.

If anybody wants to kick me in the ribs about something i have not replied to, just use PM.

Thanks again Ghoti


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## Ruby (27 May 2011)

sptrawler said:


> If we give *the powers of B* some credit............




What do you mean by "the powers of B"?


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## sptrawler (27 May 2011)

Ruby said:


> What do you mean by "the powers of B"?




The power of belief. 
Eventually if there is a universal belief something needs to be done it will be done.


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## moXJO (27 May 2011)

bandicoot76 said:


> i dont know how you  define socialism but its obviously not the same way i (nor the webster dictionary) define it:
> 
> so·cial·ism
> noun \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm\
> ...



 I said pro socialist policy (more leaning to agrarian socialist) not Karl Marx's biatch. The original position made was that he was against it (socialist policy) and I questioned that



> *Barnaby Joyce:*  It would be great to set up some wide-ranging manifesto that you think was going to be incorporated, but I think it’s better to just find a few issues and just mark them out, and try and pursue them, because they, in their own way, make the nation a better place. People talk about ‘agrarian socialism’, it’s a term, what does it mean?  Maybe I’m an agrarian socialist, I don’t know, is there a problem with being an agrarian socialist? They denigrate you with it like you’re a leper.  If that’s what I am, that’s what I am.



http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/bbing/stories/s1455110.htm
So barnaby may follow some evil socialist thinking, and isn't he in with(shock, horror) the libs
Ok, number 1:
 I was not using pro agrarian socialist as a slur which you two have taken it. I think you will find a lot of farmers are like minded on the subject and follow it to varying degrees. That doesn't mean I'm calling them commies
The second thing is you both seem to think I have taken a position against farmers and manufacturers and the unfairness of it all (which I have not).
We have a mix of socialist policy in Australia already. You think I'm branding Katter as a friken Nazi I respect the guy and mentioned I don't have a problem with him. Holding to some socialist policy is fine. Protectionism has its problems though and it would really depend on what the policy was. It's not as cut and dry as just saying protect our industries.

God its like I implied he was a member of the Greens or something


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## Ruby (27 May 2011)

sptrawler said:


> The power of belief.
> Eventually if there is a universal belief something needs to be done it will be done.




??  But you said..........



sptrawler said:


> If we give the powers of B some credit and say they do know what they are doing*(I doubt it).*




.......... so aren't you contradicting yourself?

(My bolds and italics)


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## Julia (27 May 2011)

moXJO said:


> God its like I implied he was a member of the Greens or something


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## derty (27 May 2011)

Well, blow me down. Who would have thought that noco was a closet socialist?


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## bandicoot76 (27 May 2011)

moXJO said:


> Ok, number 1:
> I was not using pro agrarian socialist as a slur which you two have taken it. I think you will find a lot of farmers are like minded on the subject and follow it to varying degrees. That doesn't mean I'm calling them commies
> The second thing is you both seem to think I have taken a position against farmers and manufacturers and the unfairness of it all (which I have not).
> We have a mix of socialist policy in Australia already. You think I'm branding Katter as a friken Nazi I respect the guy and mentioned I don't have a problem with him. Holding to some socialist policy is fine. Protectionism has its problems though and it would really depend on what the policy was. It's not as cut and dry as just saying protect our industries.
> ...




i dont recall saying you were slurring katter nor the farming community, nor of taking offence at your comments (if i had you would know believe me!) i was merely saying i disagreed with your statement that katter was a socialist and backed up my position with facts i thought relevant to the topic. dont take offence where none is given mate! ....although i realise from past experience (embarresments) that context is sometimes difficult to determine in this format....


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## noco (27 May 2011)

derty said:


> Well, blow me down. Who would have thought that noco was a closet socialist?




PLEASE EXPLAIN?


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## noco (27 May 2011)

And here we lose another factory to overseas because we cannot compete. 130 lose thier jobs. 


http://www.couriermail.com.au/busin...troot-production/story-e6freqmx-1226064059533


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## Glen48 (28 May 2011)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/27/world/americas/27brazil.html?_r=2&pagewanted=2&hp
 Here is a story about China buying up the World.


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## noco (29 May 2011)

Glen48 said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/27/world/americas/27brazil.html?_r=2&pagewanted=2&hp
> Here is a story about China buying up the World.




Glen48, the alarm bells are already ringing for 60% + of Australians. There is a lot of discontent out there and the sooner we have an election the better it will be for the future of this once proud country of ours.


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## Glen48 (29 May 2011)

Agree but will any party have the courage to stop it?

I see were Tarta of India purchased Land Rover/Jag went to UK and stripped  every nut and bolt and took the plant back home now the company is making a profit selling the cars to up and coming Chinese etc.


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## Glen48 (31 May 2011)

Some thing to think about


t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBYQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DgRz1iGIyhlA&ei=6EDkTZ-JM4XYuAPvopH7Bg&usg=AFQjCNHkd7Om4QVsOJ5f748-Zbe9PTEbaA


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## joea (6 July 2011)

joea said:


> When the shearing sheds are silent and the stock camps fallen quiet
> When the gidgee coals no longer glow across the outback night
> And the bush is forced to hang a sign, "gone broke and won't be back"
> And spirits fear to find a way beyond the beaten track
> ...




Tully sugar mill sold to COFCO. Beef industry hit in the guts.
I thought I would bring the poem back to light.
Joea


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## nioka (6 July 2011)

noco said:


> Glen48, the alarm bells are already ringing for 60% + of Australians. There is a lot of discontent out there and the sooner we have an election the better it will be for the future of this once proud country of ours.




Can't see an election making ANY difference to the sell off. This sell off was just as active under the Libs.

There is only one thing that can stop it. We will have to live within our means before it will stop. How many years is it since we had a positive balance of payments. Each month we have to sell more of the farm to finance national spending. We are down to digging holes in the ground, nothing much else left. There used to be a saying that if you dig a hole deep enough you will come out in China. Seems like there was some truth in it.


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## noco (6 July 2011)

nioka said:


> Can't see an election making ANY difference to the sell off. This sell off was just as active under the Libs.
> 
> There is only one thing that can stop it. We will have to live within our means before it will stop. How many years is it since we had a positive balance of payments. Each month we have to sell more of the farm to finance national spending. We are down to digging holes in the ground, nothing much else left. There used to be a saying that if you dig a hole deep enough you will come out in China. Seems like there was some truth in it.




Where's Gough? He wanted to buy back the farm!!!


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## joea (6 July 2011)

nioka said:


> Can't see an election making ANY difference to the sell off. This sell off was just as active under the Libs.
> 
> There is only one thing that can stop it. We will have to live within our means before it will stop. How many years is it since we had a positive balance of payments. Each month we have to sell more of the farm to finance national spending. We are down to digging holes in the ground, nothing much else left. There used to be a saying that if you dig a hole deep enough you will come out in China. Seems like there was some truth in it.




Must be coming out of one of the holes RIO or BHP dug.

The sugar mills cannot even get  5 cents from Labor, or have they used up all their goodwill?


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## OzWaveGuy (6 July 2011)

nioka said:


> There is only one thing that can stop it. We will have to live within our means before it will stop. How many years is it since we had a positive balance of payments.




Let's put some context on this statement. It is the Governments (both sides) but more prominently labor under Gillard and KRudd that have blown Billions by literally throwing our money into the wind on Government projects gone wrong.

I'm almost on the verge of believing that this has been a deliberate strategy to destroy the middle class - throw the money into a fire and raise the cost of living - significantly. Many Fabians see this approach as a winning strategy to re-shape the western economies and to drive social re-engineering towards a communist state. Hence, Brown's recent comments on a Global Government.

Once the dust settles from this Labor Gov, Gillard and crew will never see a successful political life here in Oz (unless there's a dictatorship), but like KRudd, will no doubt look to the UN for future opportunities.

Australians need to take back the country from those that plunder it.


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## sails (6 July 2011)

OzWaveGuy said:


> ...Australians need to take back the country from those that plunder it.




How do you suggest OWG?  It seems we are sitting ducks powerless to do anything in this so called democracy with a minority government unelected by the people - but elected by two independents who seemed to totally ignore the majority of their constituents.

I see nothing democratic about this situation.  The sort of major tax reform that Gillard seems hell bent on imposing should NOT be implemented by a minority government meaning they didn't win the election and, as such, do NOT have a mandate for this big new tax.

There is nothing right about this tax and the way it is being imposed on to the people who clearly don't want a bar of it.

How do you suggest we flex our democratic muscle - or are we powerless to do anything?


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## Knobby22 (6 July 2011)

OzWaveGuy said:


> Australians need to take back the country from those that plunder it.




But those who plunder it are willing to attack the government. You saw what happended with the mining tax which was designed to keep the assets in Australian hands. 

We should be taxing the miners and foreigners and saving the money and investing in world assets so when our iron and coal is gone we will still be well off. OTHER COUNTRIES DO IT! We shouldn't have tripled the immigration rate to the highest level per capita ever(by the Liberals) and kept it at this high level (under Labor) as it hurts our standard of living as infrastructure isn't being kept up, but the powerful want it raised even higher as they make money on it. 

The media is complicit as they are controlled by those same forces (especially Murdoch). The forces use the media to control the government be it Labor or Liberal. 
We are seeing the US middle classes being destroyed in the USA, it will be our turn next if we are not careful.


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## Glen48 (6 July 2011)

Voters will vote Liberal not that they want to but it is the only way to get Labor out.

 All that has ever happened is one lot get in and work hard on getting DE-elected we have had see saw ride through the history of Australia  the only answer is  not to vote  or vote informal ( The informal vote was higher in places the the winner got ).

Then some one will sit up and say Wot Tha we better come up with a better system. This lot are a good example of how not to run a Government and how not to run a business 1/2 dozen House wives running a cake stall would know more. 
 Those who can't wait bail out while you still have some assets.


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## Logique (7 July 2011)

OzWaveGuy said:


> ...I'm almost on the verge of believing that this has been a *deliberate strategy to destroy the middle class* - throw the money into a fire and raise the cost of living - significantly. Many Fabians see this approach as a winning strategy to re-shape the western economies and to drive social re-engineering towards a communist state..



Interesting comment OWG. Churchill to Stalin: "What happened to the Kulaks?"  Stalin: "We killed them all"


> https://encrypted.google.com/url?sa...pM2sDg&usg=AFQjCNGeTmumNGimq4EzrR33O7VCCWzOhA
> ... kulaks were the 'wealthy peasants' (about 10% of all peasants iirc) those who owned land & farmed successfully, & they produced the most & the best food; kulaks had the most cows, horses, tools; & *stalin, in his attempt to redistribute wealth to all, felt they were selfish & a liability * rather the asset, so went about confiscating their cows tools plows grain, & *they opposed collective farming* since they had the most to lose.



 Sound familiar?


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## OzWaveGuy (7 July 2011)

sails said:


> How do you suggest OWG?  It seems we are sitting ducks powerless to do anything in this so called democracy with a minority government unelected by the people - but elected by two independents who seemed to totally ignore the majority of their constituents..........
> 
> .....How do you suggest we flex our democratic muscle - or are we powerless to do anything?




Sitting Ducks - far from it. We are only sitting ducks if you agree to be a duck that sits. I am neither 

Let's take the proposed Carbon Tax as an example and let's assume for one moment that this tax is based on false claims (which I know it is, but let's assume it anyway so the alarmists here don't flip out and de-rail). Now ask yourself a question - what mechanism will the government force you to pay this tax for a consideration that doesn't exist? Answer: A legal mechanism by your consent.

So if it's a legal mechanism that is used to create this financial transaction which everyone assumes must be paid - then shouldn't the legal side be sound? Otherwise it may be illegal, yes? Hence, would you want to understand how the legal mechanisms work and to arm yourself with the legal knowledge to protect your rights?

For me, I am personally undertaking a lawful action on the carbon tax using legal mechanisms to support my proposed non-conforming action (eg I am not F%$#ing paying for Global Governance). We are tricked into consenting to pay for illegal taxes, and I am assuming the government will want to haul me into some de facto court in the future to issue me an order to pay. Therefore, between now and then I will be collecting all the necessary evidence that proves the tax is based on false claims - this includes evidence from the top scientist and the prime minster herself that will admit to me personally the tax is based on no evidence and is in fact based on corruption.

I've had the Galileo movement review my questions and given Andrew Bolt a heads up on my action. I will start sending out my lawful notices in the coming days. I am not using any legal counsel since they belong to the law society not our society.

I'm happy to start a separate thread since this isn't the place to go into details.


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## sails (7 July 2011)

Thanks for the reply, OWG.  I would be interested to know more - obviously collective action will get a better results.

Even though carbon tax is probably shaping up to be the biggest of all debacles, it's not the only issue. This government have shown themselves to be incapable of managing the country and the cattle knee jerk reactions have only confirmed the incompentency, imo.  It is of concern that they could keep this up for the next two years and what would be left of the Australia we know.

Any suggestions on how the people can flex collective democratic muscle to force a new election BEFORE Gillard does any more damage with her tax?  Most conservatives don't go for street marches, so there needs to be another way.

I know there was an epetition for daylight saving on the Qld government site a few years ago.  I understand an epetition has to be put up by a MP, but I don't know the processes.  I would love to see two petitions - one for no carbon tax and the other for a new election...


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## Calliope (7 July 2011)

Glen48 said:


> Those who can't wait bail out while you still have some assets.




Is that why you are in the Philippines? Your assets go further?


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## Glen48 (7 July 2011)

Thats true about 43 PHP to the AUD at present unless you can buy a house for 50K on OZ  stay there all though  will be able to in the future.
Philippines have been given an upgrade by Moody's which a bit unusual in today climate.
There are a lot of Yanks bailing out to live in South America.


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## nioka (7 July 2011)

sails said:


> I would love to see two petitions - one for no carbon tax and the other for a new election...




Throw in another one against the GST. Another one against income tax and how about one against the fuel exise. Then there is council rates?.

This vote on a carbon tax is just one of Abbotts gimmics. No tax would EVER be voted in. The call for one is meaningless and a waste of time.


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## bandicoot76 (7 July 2011)

Glen48 said:


> Voters will vote Liberal not that they want to but it is the only way to get Labor out..




the only way it will change is if the ppl finally wake up and see the whole "left Vs right" political system is a charade designed to divide them and distract their attention from the real villians... the hidden ruling class who control whichever party is in power! 

'conspiracy theory' i hear you scream... to those ppl i suggest you read david rockefellers auto-biography... he actually admits to being a part of an 'elite' international cabal designed at destroying national soveriegnty and introducing a one-world government, to be controlled by unellected bankers and 'intellectuals'! the multiple rockefeller family foundations sponsor the social engineering that creates much of what we are talking about on this thread... 

1)the corruption of the education system to create compliant "obediant workers" incapable of independant thought (google: rockefeller foundation, education board)

2) the creation of huge corporate monopolies (JD rockefeller quote: competition is a sin)

3)destruction of national soveriegnty by creation of international insitutions: UN, WTO, IMF, GATT,NAFTA, TRI-LATERAL Comm., CFR etc

4) control of national (& international) monetery supply: (google: jekyll island/ federal reserve)

5)control of media: (google: david rockefeller thanks media)

these ppl have been manipulating world politics through UN treaties etc for the past century... lets face it every destructive policy introduced in australia by our puppet governments from both sides have basically been taken word-for-word from UN directives. 

until we say "F*CK OFF UN! WE WILL MAKE OUR OWN LAWS TO SUIT OUR COUNTRY" and tear up all the bullsh*t UN treaty's we have signed (& continue to sign) we face a very uncertain future!


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## Bush Poet (9 November 2011)

joea said:


> When the shearing sheds are silent and the stock camps fallen quiet
> When the gidgee coals no longer glow across the outback night
> And the bush is forced to hang a sign, "gone broke and won't be back"
> And spirits fear to find a way beyond the beaten track
> ...





G'day All, the author of this piece is actually *Chris Long* and not 'Unknown' ... 

Cheers.


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## joea (9 November 2011)

Bush Poet said:


> G'day All, the author of this piece is actually *Chris Long* and not 'Unknown' ...
> 
> Cheers.




Yes thanks.
Pixel alerted that to us, but it was originally  sent as an email without name or the author.
joea


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## kavla1970 (9 November 2011)

What a great poem.


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## Knobby22 (9 November 2011)

bandicoot76 said:


> until we say "F*CK OFF UN! WE WILL MAKE OUR OWN LAWS TO SUIT OUR COUNTRY" and tear up all the bullsh*t UN treaty's we have signed (& continue to sign) we face a very uncertain future!




The elite don't exert influence through the UN, they do it far more directly and effectively through the media and directly through politicians, especially in the US. The UN is actually a thorn in their side which is why they give hate propaganda to spread. You should be attacking where their power is.


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## joea (5 August 2012)

I thought I might get this up again.
The Australian athletes are better than what we see in London.
The Australian people deserve better than the current Labor government.
We are a great country, and somehow we have to move forward to a better, more
secure future.
I believe it has to start at the top.
joea


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