# $10,000 into 18 million in 18 months!



## Pappon (28 April 2009)

I was glancing over your traders edge magazine and noticed an interview with a trader called Dan Zanger 29330% or so ROI turned $10000- into 18 million in 18 months. That is insane does anybody know his story? Did this guy actually ever hit a LOSING trade in this period? It's nuts.


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## tech/a (28 April 2009)

Pappon said:


> I was glancing over your traders edge magazine and noticed an interview with a trader called Dan Zanger 29330% or so ROI turned $10000- into 18 million in 18 months. That is insane does anybody know his story? Did this guy actually ever hit a LOSING trade in this period? It's nuts.




Yeh evidently hes known as "Trembling Hand"

Havent been able to substantiate that though.


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## Pappon (28 April 2009)

tech/a said:


> Yeh evidently hes known as "Trembling Hand"
> 
> Havent been able to substantiate that though.




Trembling hand?


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## Mr J (28 April 2009)

That'd require about 2% a day if growth was linear (which it never is). Almost all of that will come in the last 6 months, so it's probably better to think of it as turning 10k into a million in 12 months. I'm sure that has happened many times.


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## Trembling Hand (28 April 2009)

tech/a said:


> Yeh evidently hes known as "Trembling Hand"
> 
> Havent been able to substantiate that though.




Tech thats a nasty rumour you are starting.

 and completely wrong. I started with $600 :


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## Pappon (28 April 2009)

Ah now i get it


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## Timmy (28 April 2009)

First heard about him in a Fortune magazine article.  I can't find the reprint but here is an excerpt from it: link.

EDIT: Actually here is the article from Fortune's archives.


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## bowman (28 April 2009)

Well this is all very encouraging.

I've recently started a little side experiment to see if I could turn $10 into $120k in 12 months. A far more modest task.:

I'm using the old notion of 'compounding' and aiming at a weekly gain of 5% on my capital. It's early days yet as I'm in week 6, and slightly ahead of the curve (week six target is $12.7k and I'm at $13.2K)

I'll give it six months and if I have meaningful results I'll post a summary.


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## trillionaire#1 (28 April 2009)

he passed the big money on to bernie maddoff for a safer growth,
currently lives under a newspaper in central park


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## Mr J (28 April 2009)

$10 into 120k would be impressive indeed :. I've got a similar aim.


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## GumbyLearner (28 April 2009)

trillionaire#1 said:


> he passed the big money on to bernie maddoff for a safer growth,
> currently lives under a newspaper in central park




Do tell?


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## bowman (28 April 2009)

Mr J said:


> $10 into 120k would be impressive indeed :. I've got a similar aim.




If nothing else it will be an interesting exercise in tailoring the trading style to suit the capital (as it hopefully grows) and the market conditions. So far I am mostly daytrading and scalping with the occasional trade held over a few days. 
Stops are kinda intuitive, but mostly I bail as soon as the trade goes against me, so at the moment it's all about the entry, a quick profit and very minimal losses.


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## tech/a (28 April 2009)

I wonder why I didnt get a mention

$120k to $10k in 4 weeks?

Perhaps you've read my book.

"How to own your own small business---Start with a large one."


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## Sean K (28 April 2009)

tech/a said:


> I wonder why I didnt get a mention
> 
> $120k to $10k in 4 weeks?
> 
> ...



Unfortunatetly, I can top that Tech. 



Perhaps we write a book together?


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## Pappon (28 April 2009)

tech/a said:


> I wonder why I didnt get a mention
> 
> $120k to $10k in 4 weeks?
> 
> ...




haha, i have to laugh that's hilarious tech/a


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## Aussiest (28 April 2009)

Mr J said:


> $10 into 120k would be impressive indeed :. I've got a similar aim.




Is that $10.00 or $10k?

Assuming it was $10k.


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## bowman (28 April 2009)

Aussiest said:


> Is that $10.00 or $10k?
> 
> Assuming it was $10k.




Whoops!

Yes that should have been $10k.

$10 I can turn into waste by eating for a day.


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## moXJO (28 April 2009)

Heres a short video of an interview on how he trades.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7710736047622561973


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## Largesse (28 April 2009)

big whoop, he made a **** load on google along with alot of other people.

leverage + timing + some luck = big wins


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## moXJO (28 April 2009)

Largesse said:


> big whoop, he made a **** load on google along with alot of other people.
> 
> leverage + timing + some luck = big wins





That was in 2005. The other link article above from timmy was from 2000, wasn't it? So he must have been around for a bit

Here's his webpage

http://www.chartpattern.com/cf/index.cfm

And a link to chart patterns he trades on
http://www.chartpattern.com/understanding_chart_patterns.html


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## jersey10 (28 April 2009)

moXJO said:


> Heres a short video of an interview on how he trades.
> 
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7710736047622561973




good link thanks.

I assume most hedge fund managers use a combination of technical and fundamental analysis as Dan Zanger seems to.


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## jersey10 (28 April 2009)

well just read the article from Timmy, and it seems Dan Zanger is more of a technical analyst than fundamentalist


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## Stormin_Norman (28 April 2009)

the joy of compounding returns.


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## bowman (1 May 2009)

I've lost the original link but I found this table online recently.

If you can return 5% a week and then compound your trades you will turn $10k into $120k in 12 months.

What the hell, I thought, I'll play. 

I just completed week 7 and am ahead of the curve with a balance of $14355.

I suspect it may be quite difficult to maintain this over a year : but I'm always up for a challange.

If I haven't fallen flat on my face by week 13, I'll post a spreadsheet of my progress.


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## Timmy (1 May 2009)

bowman said:


> I've lost the original link but I found this table online recently.
> 
> If you can return 5% a week and then compound your trades you will turn $10k into $120k in 12 months.
> 
> ...




Goodonya Bowman - good luck.  Sometimes a trader's best friend is a challenge/goal.


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## Temjin (1 May 2009)

bowman said:


> I've lost the original link but I found this table online recently.
> 
> If you can return 5% a week and then compound your trades you will turn $10k into $120k in 12 months.
> 
> ...




To turn $10,000 into $18 million in 18 months, you only need to generate a consistent return of 51.652% per month and compound the profit. Or 10.97% per week. 

In another 18 months, you would have turned the $10,000 into $32,276,718,000. 

And in another 18 months, it would be $58,097,297,000,000.

So if anyone could make this challenge, he/she would have the ability to pay for the cost of the global bailouts / stimulus packages paid so far 10 times over in just 4.5 years. (assuming $5 trillion spent already) 

The joy of compounding, yep. 

A bit bored right now. haha


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## Trembling Hand (1 May 2009)

compounding $1000 at 10% a day ........ very easy

Compounding $10,000 at 10% a week ..... easy

Compounding $100,000 at 10% a month ..... is what a trader should be able to do.

Compounding $1,000,000 at anything other than single figures per month requires a lot of skill.

doing anything with $10,000,000 needs a great deal of skill AND a very deep market OR just the right amount of luck.


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## Sakk (2 May 2009)

Trembling Hand said:


> compounding $1000 at 10% a day ........ very easy
> 
> Compounding $1,000,000 at anything other than single figures per month requires a lot of skill.
> 
> doing anything with $10,000,000 needs a great deal of skill AND a very deep market OR just the right amount of luck.




TH or to FX traders,

What is the limit to the number of contracts you can trade in the EUR/USD before getting slower execution or slippage?

Assuming a trader can consistantly make an average of 50 pips per week on the eur/usd on a $10,000 account (intraday swingtrading), is the following possible with a $1,000,000 account?
           -  trading 100 full contracts @ 50 pips per week = $50,000 USD or 5% return = 20% return per month

    or

on a $10,000,000 account, trading 1000 contracts?

At what point would this fail?  I'm not assuming that we compound the account,  just want to know at what point or account size or number of contracts would this fail.


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## Timmy (2 May 2009)

Sakk said:


> on a $10,000,000 account,




You can go to interbank dealers direct for pricing on this sort of amount (get a credit limit etc.), hardly a drop in the bucket.


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## Trembling Hand (2 May 2009)

Sakk said:


> TH or to FX traders,
> 
> What is the limit to the number of contracts you can trade in the EUR/USD before getting slower execution or slippage?
> 
> ...



 The thing is when you move away from bucket shops you can't just hit the "BUY" button. Your actions actually move the market. Your stops aren't just closed out. You have to work out of positions. If your trading 250 - 500 a tick and move to the real market you will probably have to learn some new skills.

I don't know any market where you can trade 1000 contracts without working orders. Maybe the ES, Maybe.



Timmy said:


> You can go to interbank dealers direct for pricing on this sort of amount (get a credit limit etc.), hardly a drop in the bucket.



 the problem is though Timmy you can leverage 1 mil no prob to end up trading 10 mil positions but leveraging up 10 to trade 100 mil positions you now have to trade in a completely different way.

The percentage gains we are talking about are because we use leverage and actually trading 10 times the account.


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## Timmy (2 May 2009)

Trembling Hand said:


> the problem is though Timmy you can leverage 1 mil no prob to end up trading 10 mil positions but leveraging up 10 to trade 100 mil positions you now have to trade in a completely different way.




Absolutely agree.


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## bowman (2 May 2009)

Timmy said:


> Goodonya Bowman - good luck.  Sometimes a trader's best friend is a challenge/goal.




Cheers Timmy

The compounding figures are quite seductive I suppose, particularly as I am a shor term trader by nature. At the moment I am mostly daytrading but I am thinking that a good way to make this system work is to try and find short term swing or turning points and then capture 2-3 day moves.

I'm playing around with various scans and indicators to find these moves within the various sectors.

I think the beauty of aiming for small gains (providing I can do it consistantly and keep losses to an absolute minimum) is that short term gains of 5-10% can be achieved right across the All Ords. 

This is important because as the weekly trading capital increases I will need to expand my focus towards mid cap & blue chip stocks - as well as the small caps and speccies that I am trading now.

I just did a new table with a 6% weekly gain rather than the 5% gain and the 12 month target gain moves from $120k to $207k.
 LOL


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