# KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election!



## numbercruncher (24 November 2007)

Congratulations !


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## Wysiwyg (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

Now us stock market players will experience what a change of government means in the middle of a bull market.


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## Nyden (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

What a downer, glad I got rid of my Uranium stocks a while ago :

Rudd had better not cause too many problems for the market, well - as I said in another thread...the silver-lining here; is that at least after this, we won't see Labor for another decade  Once people get a taste of it again, they'll be quite soured. 

Ugh, now we're going to need to deal with Unions again. Power to the masses, eh? The same that voted Rudd in, no thank you


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## Flying Fish (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

lol enjoy this ****ry run by sheilas and high interest rates ROFLMOA


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## doctorj (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

Nothing like being a good loser...


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## Flying Fish (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

lol  who's the loser?
you


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## numbercruncher (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

High Interest rates are good!

Good job getting rid of Uranium's - Monday they might get some pain ? But there is still a big International market.

Yup power to the masses, thats what democracy is all about !! there is always the option to move to somewhere like Pakistan or Saudi if folks dont like democracy ?

Only people whove got anything to worry about are employers who try to get away with crap wages and conditions. Bit of overtime pay and weekend rates , good for business 

Welcome to the new Australia


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## Flying Fish (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



numbercruncher said:


> High Interest rates are good!
> 
> Good job getting rid of Uranium's - Monday they might get some pain ? But there is still a big International market.
> 
> ...




Bullsh!t
Australia is now in the dark ages


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## Nyden (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



Flying Fish said:


> lol enjoy this ****ry run by sheilas and high interest rates ROFLMOA




Do you not live in Australia? Where do you live? 

Maybe I'll head to over to Canada and wait out the next election

What exactly is Rudd going to do? Terminate the IR laws? 
Will our relations with the US become hindered in anyway?

I was looking forward to Nuclear Power, time to shift some stocks around.

If the market doesn't follow the US rally on monday because of this, I am going to be *really* annoyed at Rudd.


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## 2020hindsight (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2007/results/electorateindex.htm

follow it here


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## So_Cynical (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

OH Noeees the sky is falling.

Congrats Kevin and team

RIP Work no choices.


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## Flying Fish (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



Flying Fish said:


> Bullsh!t
> Australia is now in the dark ages




You f@ckers voted them em,


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## numbercruncher (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*





Least this guy has trustworthy eyebrows !


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## Nyden (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



Flying Fish said:


> You f@ckers voted them em,




Well, there's no need for that Fish.

I'm upset myself, I'm a devout Liberal - but, there are better ways of expressing your frustration :

I do offer my congratulations to all Labor supporters, & sincerely hope he doesn't bugger the country up


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## Flying Fish (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



numbercruncher said:


> View attachment 15393
> 
> 
> Least this guy has trustworthy eyebrows !




LOL
 Enjoy your victory


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## Rough_Trade (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



Flying Fish said:


> Bullsh!t
> Australia is now in the dark ages




So John Howard should feel right at home.


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## 2020hindsight (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

We're just gonna have to sort this out over a beer I guess - 
commisserations for some, celebrations for others,
good news is, democracy rains? reins? reigns?


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## Nyden (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



numbercruncher said:


> View attachment 15393
> 
> 
> Least this guy has trustworthy eyebrows !




If you expect to see gracious losers, please be a gracious *winner*. It was mentioned a while ago that these constant jokes at physical characteristics are irrelevant to any political discussion. Are you perfect? Flawless male model? And we wonder why people become self-conscious about things.


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## mark70920 (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



Flying Fish said:


> Political party desperation
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ...





I have never been pro-Liberal

Your true colours come out again


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## numbercruncher (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

So far i have not seen any gracious losers here, just people saying the country is now screwed, people wanting to emmigrate, liquidate their portfolios and all that bla bla .....


Physical characteristics as far as i can see are on the political agenda, just ask downer how he feels about Rudds "cocky little smirk" - so alls fair in love and war.


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## 2020hindsight (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

Sounds like Libs retain majority in the Senate for 7 months though .


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## Nyden (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



numbercruncher said:


> So far i have not seen any gracious losers here, just people saying the country is now screwed, people wanting to emmigrate, liquidate their portfolios and all that bla bla .....
> 
> 
> Physical characteristics as far as i can see are on the political agenda, just ask downer how he feels about Rudds "cocky little smirk" - so alls fair in love and war.





Well, I would say a smirk is something different than eye brows.

The past has taught us that under Labor - interest rates are usually higher. This is a stock-trading forum, people follow trends here - the assumption can only be made, that it will be the same this time round. Therefore - the market may suffer, & other investments may suffer. 

And, in selfish truth - that's all I really care about  Everything else is irrelevant. I never claimed to be a nice person, the market wanted Liberal, it hasn't received, therefore; I'm disappointed.


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## wayneL (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

It will take some time for Rudd to ruin the country. If Oz economy turns quickly, it will be because of:

*Global conditions
*Previous actions of the Libs

We have a serious credit crunch happening right now (nothing to do with Rudd) which will affect everyone, and as a direct consequence of the fast and easy money policies of CB's... particularly the Fed.

The non-thinking tribalists will of course blame Rudd.


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## Nyden (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



wayneL said:


> It will take some time for Rudd to ruin the country. If Oz economy turns quickly, it will be because of:
> 
> *Global conditions
> *Previous actions of the Libs
> ...





Exactly  That was the silver-lining I spoke of in another thread, Rudd will be blamed. I take solace in that :


Alright, someone point me in the direction of that thread which discussed good stocks under a Labor government, can we invest in Unions?


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## 2020hindsight (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

23 seats changed hands so far (as called by Anthony Green of course).
At this point I 'd like to think the Libs come out of this a strong opposition    - decimation helps noone


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## wayneL (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



Flying Fish said:


> You f@ckers voted them em,



OK you've had a good vent. Let's tone down the invective a bit.

Thanks


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## moneymajix (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

Howard is in danger of loosing BENNELONG to Maxine McKew!


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## trishan9390 (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

Argh...Congrats to Rudd but I can't say I am not dissapointed. Do we really have to have a labour gov to screw things up for 3 yrs before we go back to libs???


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## billhill (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

Who's to say that the unions are back and that the country is ruined. Rudd's obviously not an idiot if he can pull off such a resounding election win, give the guy a chance. For all we know Rudd could be even better then Howard. He has no track record to judge him yet so i think its ignorant to assume he is going to be a disaster.


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## roland (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

Congratulations to Labour supporters, commiserations to Liberal supporters. What better group of people to handle a situation change than the people here? We all live for change, and a change of Government will be good for some, and bad for others.

I think we all have to agree that no matter who is running the country, that person would certainly only have the best interest of all of us as his #1 priority. We may not agree with individual policies, or even like the people who wield them - but bottom line is they need to be a "crowd pleaser" to even be where they are. Like it or not, that is what a democracy is all about.

I voted Liberal, mainly because I don;t like being taken out of my comfort zone, but I am not disappointed. 

None of us really know what the "other side" is really like ... 11 years already with John Howard in a boom market. The world has changed so much that we don't have a good comparison any more - so maybe this is a good thing.

Sad to see Mr Howard go, but on the other hand I have a few characters in mind that I am so unhappy to see the back of. In contrast, there will be a few new faces that I am not so keen on either - pity you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Let's get on with being nice to each other and using the changes to our advantage in our individual quest for wealth creation.


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## trishan9390 (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



wayneL said:


> It will take some time for Rudd to ruin the country. If Oz economy turns quickly, it will be because of:
> 
> *Global conditions
> *Previous actions of the Libs
> ...




We say this cos we know more than the plebs abt the economy. The avergae joe doesnt know/care abt wat the cause of a bad economy is. All he cares abt is payinf higher inetrest and not being able to get a job. Rudd will cop it even though as you say it's got nothing to do with Rudd.


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## krisbarry (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

There we go...I always thought Kevin Rudd looks better with a halo on his head. lol, I am so happy Labor won.


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## roland (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

Come to think of it, the last couple of Labour attempts would have left us with much more of an embrrassment than Rudd, so at least we got the best of the worst we have seen so far......


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## Julia (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



numbercruncher said:


> High Interest rates are good!




Really?  Perhaps you'd enlighten us as to why and for whom.
Fairly obviously you don't have a mortgage for a start.


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## Julia (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

Congratulations to all of you Labor supporters.  I sincerely hope your beliefs are validated in the years to come.

I am really disappointed that Mal Brough has lost his seat.  He was probably the one Coalition Minister who had a real sense of sincerity.  He was also clear and articulate.  Sad to think he may well now be lost to politics.
I hope not.


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## roland (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



Julia said:


> numbercruncher said:
> 
> 
> > High Interest rates are good!
> ...


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## wayneL (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



Julia said:


> Really?  Perhaps you'd enlighten us as to why and for whom.
> Fairly obviously you don't have a mortgage for a start.



There are a helluva lot of retirees living on intrest only... they would be happy.

Also, anyone concerned about inflation would want higher rates.


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## trading_rookie (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

So many posts and so many comments pending but alas time and priority being the enemy. Still a comment suffices with the election now over…as I’m about to leave one of the offices I frequent, ironically in the seat of Bennelong, which is still in doubt, and with my overtime pay never in doubt – good to see the electrote scared wit-less over this one – must say I’m saddened to see the end of an era.

To really rub salt in the wounds the prospect of Albanese on the winning side is hard to bear, so too Combet. Swan as treasurer!!! I’d at least prefer Lindsay Tanner.


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## numbercruncher (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

As much as i dislike Costello, he just delivered one of the best performances ive ever seen him deliver, his speech was gracious, caring and statesman like.Kudos to him. (still dislike him though)


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## Julia (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

Wayne and Roland,

Yes, of course I recognise that high interest rates benefit some sectors of the population.  I am included in this, having no mortgage plus cash earning interest.  So personally, I'm not unhappy as I see interest rates rise.  

However, that personal benefit pales in comparison with the disadvantage to a far greater proportion of the population.  Why - amongst all the discussion about interest rates over recent months - has there been almost no mention of the small groups of people who are advantaged by increased rates?
Because they are hugely outnumbered by those whose daily struggle will be increased as their mortgage rate and/or rents rise.

I just find Numbercruncher's blanket statement that "high interest rates are good" to be less than realistic in the overall sense.  Don't forget that most of us are invested in shares and if the companies we are hoping will increase their profits are obliged to pay more for their borrowings, then we will be disadvantaged.

Or perhaps I'm just a closet socialist and essentially want what is best for the greater good!


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## BradK (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



Flying Fish said:


> lol  who's the loser?
> you




You're an idiot


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## roland (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



Julia said:


> Wayne and Roland,
> 
> Yes, of course I recognise that high interest rates benefit some sectors of the population.  I am included in this, having no mortgage plus cash earning interest.  So personally, I'm not unhappy as I see interest rates rise.
> 
> ...




Understand Julia, and am sensitive to radical views and comments of others. Personally I don't believe the Government has a lot to do with interest rates other than creating environments for negative or positive business growth. Let's look forward to a renewed strive for prosperity in a different direction!


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## ithatheekret (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

Tomorrow the sun will rise , as it does everyday .

Until that stops happening , don't sweat it .

I'd like to wish Kevin Rudd the best of luck , he's just picked up a country in fantastic shape .

Whatever you do Kev , don't stuff it up , keep the reigns tight mate .


P.S.. Labour won't stop a mining boom , in fact I think it just got better , as they have had a shift in views on their mining policies . Also take note that Santos is now an open register to anyone willing to fork up the dinars , thanks to a Labour government . There are some positives you know ............


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## 2020hindsight (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



ithatheekret said:


> Whatever you do Kev , don't stuff it up



yep kev, remember you can't sell Telstra twice to get the books in the black 

I guess there's... errr.. Customs - and/or maybe the AFP   - maybe you could sell them to the drug pushers?


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## roland (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

...and to all the Liberal supporters, we have a really good team in opposition to keep the Government in line


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## numbercruncher (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



Julia said:


> Or perhaps I'm just a closet socialist and essentially want what is best for the greater good!






You didnt demonstrate that with your vote !!


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## champ2003 (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



Nyden said:


> Do you not live in Australia? Where do you live?
> 
> Maybe I'll head to over to Canada and wait out the next election
> 
> ...




Invest in Namibian Uranium stocks Nyden. BMN is the best, you won't find anything better than that. The management are doing everything to perfection. More money will flow into that company from now on. Have a good look at their website. They have an enormous amount of activity going on in the next 6 months and will have anything up to 200Million pounds U308 by March 2008, currently they have 27 million pounds. It is cheap at current prices.

Cheers!

Champ2003


Cheers!

Champ


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## Julia (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



numbercruncher said:


> You didnt demonstrate that with your vote !!




Well, that's a matter of opinion, isn't it.  There is nothing in today's Labor Party policy which suggests they will be much different from the Libs.

Just note, Numbercruncher, that I said re my vote that I voted for whom I disliked least.

And I said in my last post (facetiously if it were not obvious!) that perhaps I was a *closet socialist.*
That idle musing is pretty different from being a rapid Communist e.g.


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## ithatheekret (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



2020hindsight said:


> yep kev, remember you can't sell Telstra twice to get the books in the black
> 
> I guess there's... errr.. Customs - and/or maybe the AFP   - maybe you could sell them to the drug pushers?




Wish we could sell the drought !

By the way , just an enquiry , as I didn't keep up with the stock after the last issue , which should look nice for selling as a tax advantage this June    ....

Telstra , the Gov. held 51% , moved it over to the superduper fund , who has close to 16% . 

Where the bl**dy rest go ?


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## Smurf1976 (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

Congratulations to Mr Rudd. 

Now what, exactly are we going to do about the big problems no politician wants to go near.

Oil
Financial situation - consumer debt, rising interest rates and the eventual demise of the US as the dominant power
Climate change

All massive, global, near term problems for which we are totally unprepared. Problems that threaten far more than a slowdown in the economy if they aren't properly addressed.


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## roland (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

The Rudd speach is a bit like the worm - he gets a rousing cheer with nearly every syllabyl (not spelt correctly - I think). He hasn't really said much so far.


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## Smurf1976 (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



Julia said:


> Wayne and Roland,
> 
> Yes, of course I recognise that high interest rates benefit some sectors of the population.  I am included in this, having no mortgage plus cash earning interest.  So personally, I'm not unhappy as I see interest rates rise.
> 
> ...



I find this argument somewhat like the argument for cheap drugs.

We shouldn't raise the price of credit because that will hurt so many who depend on it.

We shouldn't raise the price of cigarettes because that will hurt so many who are dependent on them.

We shouldn't raise the price of heroin because that will hurt so many who are addicted to it.

Never mind that it was the cheap and easy availability of credit, cigarettes, heroin etc that got them hooked and lead to the situation in the first place. It's not high interest rates that are the problem, but variations in rates - people wouldn't have such huge mortgages if we'd never had low rates.

Aiming for stable interest rates is more important than their actual level IMO.


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## numbercruncher (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

Absolutely awesome acceptance speech by our new esteemed Primeminister.

A new Government for all Australians, what else could we want ?


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## 2020hindsight (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



numbercruncher said:


> Absolutely awesome acceptance speech by our new esteemed Primeminister.  A new Government for all Australians, what else could we want ?



I'm with you nc   - ps I typed much of his speech on "2007 victory - when" thread


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## ithatheekret (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



roland said:


> The Rudd speach is a bit like the worm - he gets a rousing cheer with nearly every syllabyl (not spelt correctly - I think). He hasn't really said much so far.





Just listened to it , I actually thought it was his best public comment to date , he has family values and has had to swim the parenthood channel in our day and age . That in itself is a heroic feat .

Anyway we are a Labour nation now , so that would be " Comrade Worm " .............

and you can spell anyway you like Comrade .  

got to have a laugh ..........


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## numbercruncher (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

OK - seen as everyone now accepts we are a Labor nation it is compulsary to spell it ......


LABOR the u that everyone insists on adding is for u to keep 

Thanks for your cooperation in this small matter (I know my own spelling makes this statement a little fresh but heck its the party Leading our nation lol)


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## ithatheekret (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

I always get them mixed up with the UK Labour party .

Please to be excusing the variant ............ comrade .


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## Shane Baker (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



numbercruncher said:


> OK - seen as everyone now accepts we are a Labor nation it is compulsary to spell it ......
> 
> 
> LABOR the u that everyone insists on adding is for u to keep
> ...




What??? No *U* as in *UNION*?


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## nioka (24 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



wayneL said:


> There are a helluva lot of retirees living on intrest only... they would be happy.
> 
> Also, anyone concerned about inflation would want higher rates.




Higher interest rates are usually accompanied by higher inflation which devalues the capital base. As a retiree I find that I have been worse off with the higher interest rates. It is like saying which came first, the chicken or the egg.
 Personally I think we will all benefit from a change of government.


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## Knobby22 (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

I was on of the 7% of the population that changed their vote.

Rudd has a great vision to improve this country and I hope he succeeds.
Governments get tired and need to be renewed. 

Mal Brough, one of the few visionaries the Liberals had left will return, probably in my opinion as a State leader and I eagerly await that.

The Americanisation of our country can now be turned around. 
The disastrous education policies and science funding of the Liberals can be arrested. Did you know that the greatest Austrlain minds that came up with the improved solar cell now work for China because Howard stopped the funding in 2000? No government is perfect because it is made up of imperfect people.

I am sure one day I will be voting Liberal federally again but isn't it good we don't live in a one party state. We need change to provide fresh ideas and progress Australia.

By the way, those in this thread selling their Uranium shares have forgot that Federal Labour is for Uranium mining.


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## Doris (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

Never pondered this before...

Y is there no U in LABOR?

Could the founders of the party not spell or is there a more deliberate reason?


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## numbercruncher (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



Julia said:


> There is nothing in today's Labor Party policy which suggests they will be much different from the Libs.





Julia .... Julia ....... you really should of listened to the Labor adverts or read the kevin07 website there is literally dozens of differences .......

A education revolution

Abolishing workchoices

Repairing our Hospital system

NO Nuclear reactors in your neighbourhood

Dental care

Ratifying Kyoto

A world class broadband network

and many more ....


come on your surely pulling my leg, you hadnt heard of any of this ? Liberals dont want anything to do with these extremist policy's. Could propbably view this election as Generational change as much as anything else.


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## numbercruncher (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



Doris said:


> Never pondered this before...
> 
> Y is there no U in LABOR?
> 
> Could the founders of the party not spell or is there a more deliberate reason?







> The ALP was originally called "the Australian Labour Party" (name adopted in 1908), but was frequently referred to as both "Labour" and "Labor". The "Labor" was adopted from 1912 onwards due to the influence of the American labor movement







> During the development of the Labour/Labor Party in the six Australian colonies and states between 1880 and 1920, it is difficult to find a definitive answer to the question. In Queensland during those years, there are many references to the Labour Party or Labour candidate. The seat of Bundaberg in Queensland was won in 1893 by a `black Labour candidate'. The manifesto for that election refers to `The Labour Party', where 46 candidates were endorsed for the 72 Queensland seats. By 1912, most references to the party are about, `The Labor Party'. However, the story I like to promote is the one about a particular meeting at Trades Hall where the members had a tipple or two during the design of a pamphlet. The story goes, that someone left the `u' out of Labour and  the printing went ahead with `Labour' spelt `Labor' and has remained so ever since. However, in all the early writings about the development of the party, high on the list of aims were references to abstinence and strong family values ... so maybe no alcohol was involved at all.





Only in Australia


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## 2020hindsight (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



Doris said:


> Never pondered this before...
> 
> Y is there no U in LABOR?
> 
> Could the founders of the party not spell or is there a more deliberate reason?



good question doris.
I always thought it was LATIN

Null-arbor is from "nullus arbor" and means "no trees"  (sometimes spelt Nullabor btw - see wikipedia website address for instance) 
and L-abor is from "lotsa arbor" and means "lots of trees" 


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullabor The word Nullarbor is derived from the Latin nullus for 'nothing' or 'no one' and arbor for 'tree',


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## Wysiwyg (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



numbercruncher said:


> Julia .... Julia ....... you really should of listened to the Labor adverts or read the kevin07 website there is literally dozens of differences .......
> 
> A education revolution
> 
> ...




Hail Caesar lol, no it`s all good bruz, we shall adapt to the new system.

p.s. I`m not at all happy with my progamming, is it possible to get a new implant?


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## Tysonboss1 (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



numbercruncher said:


> High Interest rates are good!
> 
> Only people whove got anything to worry about are employers who try to get away with crap wages and conditions. Bit of overtime pay and weekend rates , good for business
> 
> Welcome to the new Australia




I guess you have never run a business,

remind me why you think high interest rates are good.


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## skint (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



Julia said:


> Congratulations to all of you Labor supporters.  I sincerely hope your beliefs are validated in the years to come.
> 
> I am really disappointed that Mal Brough has lost his seat.  He was probably the one Coalition Minister who had a real sense of sincerity.  He was also clear and articulate.  Sad to think he may well now be lost to politics.
> I hope not.




Fromm my previous posts, I've made it pretty clear that I felt a change of government was crucial for Aust. and that the coalition has been a truly awful blight on the country for the past decade or so. Having said that, I genuinely felt sorry for Brough. He always appeared to be sincere as to the problems in Aboriginal communities. Unfortunately, being an army fella, he tried to solve the issues with a military nonconsultative approach, which was completely inappropriate. You need the cooperation of the community leaders. Howard made things worse by turning into farcicle fanfare and with no backup such as resources for L/term rehabilitation, healthcare workers, housing etc..Unfortunately, Rudd me-tooed the policy, so lets hope he comes up with a more sensible approach, now he's in power. Sadly, voters and parties tend to forget these groups after an election. Maybe Garrett will get in his ear, but I don't think he'll have much clout in the party.


----------



## Doris (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



2020hindsight said:


> good question doris.
> I always thought it was LATIN
> 
> Null-arbor is from "nullus arbor" and means "no trees"  (sometimes spelt Nullabor btw - see wikipedia website address for instance)
> and L-abor is from "lotsa arbor" and means "lots of trees"




   Are you suggesting they can't see the forest for them?   

I'm concerned about Rudd's criticism of the tax breaks... which IMO helped offset rising interest rates.  I liked the lower brackets Howard had planned.  In the US 25% is the highest income tax level and their GST equivalent is about 8%.  

Telephone charges are so low over there.  A friend of mine buys 6000 minutes for $50 a month on her cell phone contract.  STD or international calls... no matter.  You just use your minutes.  Canada was the same.  It *was* good to not have streaming when downloading video/audio so broadband here sure has a way to go!  How will Rudd handle Telstra?


----------



## ithatheekret (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



numbercruncher said:


> Could probably view this election as Generational change as much as anything else.




I think you've hit the nail right on the head there . 

Not that I object . It was getting a bit stuffy , and no-one opened the windows , so the doors ended up doing the job . Now for some fresh air , nationally , economically and hopefully in the Liberal party .

Maxine McKew , by crikey she did it . (onya Max) . Abbott lost his seat too .

That's every state and territory locked in , which only leaves the Lord Mayor of Brissie as a top shelf elected member of the Libs . left standing .

I think it's called a slam dunk , with a bigger swing than the EUR/JPY swap .

Now I'm interested in seeing how this government copes with Telstra  

Where will all the money for the hospitals improvements come from ?  

If the US sinks , we'll be pulling teeth , that would sideline dental care . 

Ratifying Kyoto , like words will help . Will sorry do ? 

If we say sorry will Japan give us their network ?

The education revolution , well school kids revolt everyday . 

Better to get the teachers off the stupid pay system that sees them maxing out paywise in 8 years and looking to administrative duties for higher pay .

The cyclical exodus created has seen quality walk away and only the faithful or upandcoming remaining .

The only extreme thing in Australia is PETROL EXCISE TAX on top of GST  .


----------



## numbercruncher (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



Tysonboss1 said:


> remind me why you think high interest rates are good.




Because it seperates the milk from the cream.

But even better is stable Interest rates so as central banks cant create unsustainable asset prices.

Also helps contain runaway Inflation, which in a Global economy , with countries with different agendas, is getting pretty impossible to do i might add.

If I was American id vote Ron Paul for abolishing the federal reserve policy alone 

The price of money and standards to borrow needs to rise because theyve been basically giving the stuff way for too long  (actually i understand this is happening already)

Ofcoarse this is my own humble opinion and your more than welcome to ridicule me if you wish sir !


----------



## numbercruncher (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



Doris said:


> Telephone charges are so low over there.  A friend of mine buys 6000 minutes for $50 a month on her cell phone contract.  STD or international calls... no matter.  You just use your minutes.  Canada was the same.  It *was* good to not have streaming when downloading video/audio so broadband here sure has a way to go!  How will Rudd handle Telstra?




Sign up to Skype! 3c minute or $4 a month plus 6 cents per call or close enough to it!


----------



## 2020hindsight (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



Doris said:


> Are you suggesting they can't see the forest for them?
> 
> I'm concerned about Rudd's criticism of the tax breaks... which IMO helped offset rising interest rates.  I liked the lower brackets Howard had planned.  In the US 25% is the highest income tax level and their GST equivalent is about 8%.
> 
> How will Rudd handle Telstra?



Doris, lol - trees are the flavour of the month yes? - I mean it sounds better that numbercruncher's version that the Qld branch were pissed when they put out an early pamphlet !!! - sheesh

I'm no economist but here goes...
tax breaks? depending on productivity/ attitude improvement, they would be inflationary imo (and the Reserve Bank's)  - inflation would soon chew em up, and Kevin Rudd would be chasing tails , (as against chasing tail - if you believe the newspaper reports that is).

How will he handle Telstra? - another good question.  Damned site more diffficult since the Libs have let things get so contractually tricky and technically backward I'd have thought. 

Speaking of attitude improvement, you may or may not recall 1983 when Hawke got in, and soon after we won the America's Cup.   Everyone was singing this song ....  great memories (as I recall them anyways) 

Men at work: Land down under!!!! (One of their best songs!!)


----------



## Doris (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



2020hindsight said:


> Doris, lol - trees are the flavour of the month yes? - I mean it sounds better that numbercruncher's version that the Qld branch were pissed when they put out an early pamphlet !!! - sheesh
> 
> I'm no economist but here goes...
> tax breaks? depending on productivity/ attitude improvement, they would be inflationary imo (and the Reserve Bank's)  - inflation would soon chew em up, and Kevin Rudd would be chasing tails , (as against chasing tail - if you believe the newspaper reports that is).





That's what the Reserve Bank says.  But really... look at the huge credit card debt people have that contributes more to inflation!  It would make more sense for people to be able to keep more of the money they *earn* for spending.  Less debt.  

10% for GST on top of income tax which should have been dropped more then it was at the onset of it.  Actually, financial management in schools would be a must!  I so hate tax time seeing how much I've paid!  Especially when I think of the 10% on what I've spent what's left on.  

Great song!  My favourite all time!


----------



## numbercruncher (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

Yes men at work were tops, had a few beers with John Rees (bass) in the past shame they went there own ways so early in the game !


Fitting song for tonight thou


----------



## barnz2k (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*

Warning, I am completely oblivious to all things political, (there was no poll option for Didn't vote!) but I can't help but think Rudd could have some kind of positive effect on the China boom and resources because of his diplomat history and speaking fluent Chinese? Couldn't this be a positive sign to china and assist in trading or something?? 

Like I said I have no idea, just wondering. so don't go flaming!


----------



## Flying Fish (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



BradK said:


> You're an idiot




lol

Bring it on 10% interest. Love it. And I get a pay rise ROFL. Who's the idiot now.


----------



## Flying Fish (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



barnz2k said:


> warning, i am completely oblivious to all things political, (there was no poll option for Didn't vote!) but I can't help but think Rudd could have some kind of positive effect on the China boom and resources because of his diplomat history and speaking fluent Chinese? Couldn't this be a positive sign to china and assist in trading or something??
> 
> Like I said I have no idea, just wondering. so don't go flaming!



Just what this country needs.. more people


----------



## Wysiwyg (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



Flying Fish said:


> lol
> 
> Bring it on 10% interest. Love it. And I get a pay rise ROFL. Who's the idiot now.




you have potential for maturity and wisdom, why flaunt your life inexperiences now???


----------



## Flying Fish (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



Wysiwyg said:


> you have potential for maturity and wisdom, why flaunt your life inexperiences now???




You asked for it. now let some people work for a change.

Enjoy you new gonvernment.


----------



## BradK (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



Flying Fish said:


> You asked for it. now let some people work for a change.
> 
> Enjoy you new gonvernment.




I'll say it again in case you didnt hear it the first time. You're an idiot.


----------



## Flying Fish (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



BradK said:


> I'll say it again in case you didnt hear it the first time. You're an idiot.




Why do you quarel with me?

I will report you for open obuse!!!!

Who is the ijiot now


----------



## Aussiejeff (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



Flying Fish said:


> lol enjoy this ****ry run by sheilas and high interest rates ROFLMOA




Hey, Flying Fish - those are sorta sexist remarks there.  I hope your mum isn't looking over your shoulder as you typed ...

I don't want to get personal here, but gee - get a life dude! Maybe go take a cold shower and stop crying about the result. Anyone with half an ounce of sympathy for the less well off in this divided society that the dumped "Dream Team" helped to create could have predicted the rersult. That Howard & Co. apparently refused to see this coming (evidenced by last night's comic refusal by Lib henchmen to admit what was happening in front of their own eyes) is not the fault of the MAJORITY that voted them out.

I think you should make an apology to all the female members of this forum who are likely going to be offende by your flippant and petulant remarks about their ability to partake in the process of government in this country.

And don't worry - as far as I could see when I got up this morning, THE SKY HADN'T FALLEN!


----------



## Aussiejeff (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



Flying Fish said:


> You f@ckers voted them em,





Moderator Joe - I think this sort of childish abuse needs a final warning.

AJ


----------



## wayneL (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



nioka said:


> Higher interest rates are usually accompanied by higher inflation which devalues the capital base. As a retiree I find that I have been worse off with the higher interest rates. It is like saying which came first, the chicken or the egg.
> Personally I think we will all benefit from a change of government.



The rub here is that the "real" inflation rate is higher than the fraudulent CPI says it is. This justifies rates higher than they currently are.

Here in the UK they "partly" tell the truth by having two separate measures of inflation - CPI & RPI.

If CPI has typically been 2.5% over the last year, RPI has typically been 4.5%. "Real world" inflation has actually been in the order of 6-7% (more for some sections of the population, particularly retirees). I suggest Oz is broadly similar if not worse.

This justifies rates @ circa 8% in both countries... real rates, once tax is considered, are negative... all to support the ludicrous RE bubble. Eventually, the west will shoot itself in the foot with this policy of negative rates, because ultimately, it won't save asset prices from deflation, and is an intentional debasement of currency.

A capital offense in the US believe.


----------



## wayneL (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



Aussiejeff said:


> Moderator Joe - I think this sort of childish abuse needs a final warning.
> 
> AJ



I think all us mods have cut a bit of slack, being such an emotive topic. But now we've all had a few hours to settle down, it's time for all to re-read the code of conduct and abide by the same.

Let's take it easy on each other folks.

Cheers


----------



## robots (25 November 2007)

hello,

actually i think Workchoices will be the first thing Rudd backflips on, if you look at brumby's performance with the nurses the gov was very happy to ABIDE by the current IR rules

shouldnt Workchoices be thrown out on Monday?

julia got right, bugger all difference between lib & lab at the moment

not much will change

thankyou

robots


----------



## hangseng (25 November 2007)

robots said:


> hello,
> 
> actually i think Workchoices will be the first thing Rudd backflips on, if you look at brumby's performance with the nurses the gov was very happy to ABIDE by the current IR rules
> 
> ...




Workchoices will remain in until at least mid 2008 as it can still be blocked in the senate until then.


----------



## numbercruncher (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



barnz2k said:


> Warning, I am completely oblivious to all things political, (there was no poll option for Didn't vote!) but I can't help but think Rudd could have some kind of positive effect on the China boom and resources because of his diplomat history and speaking fluent Chinese? Couldn't this be a positive sign to china and assist in trading or something??
> 
> Like I said I have no idea, just wondering. so don't go flaming!





I think your right Barnz ....

Ive said all along Rudd will be bullish for China Australia trade relations, the Chinese president has already extended an Invite to our esteemed leader Kevin to attend the Beijing olympics, the ex PM didnt receive the same offer of hospitality


----------



## numbercruncher (25 November 2007)

robots said:


> hello,
> 
> actually i think Workchoices will be the first thing Rudd backflips on, if you look at brumby's performance with the nurses the gov was very happy to ABIDE by the current IR rules
> 
> ...







> Denial is a defense mechanism in which a person is faced with a fact that is too painful to accept and rejects it instead




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial


Sorry for your Loss Robots,


Trouble making Liberals will control senate for a few months, during this period i predict Liberals will be nothing short of vexatious, but none the less its expected.

Then you can expect plenty of change! Some serious power held in the senate by the Greens and others, could be some conflict of interest.

The sun is shining so much brighter today, birds are singing, kids are laughing ....


----------



## numbercruncher (25 November 2007)

> KEVIN RUDD will take "a meat axe" to the bloated public service and end what he calls the Government's culture of secrecy and ministerial unaccountability.




http://www.smh.com.au/news/federal-election-2007-news/meat-axe-to-public-service/2007/11/21/1195321867004.html


This is great policy, hope there is no back flip here !


----------



## justjohn (25 November 2007)

LABOR targeted the young vote cleverly ,my 18year old daughter and friends  seen Rudd on Sunrise ,Rove heard him on FM radio knew he was on Myspace and related to the Kevin07 campange so this bunch of first time voters thought her was cool and voted Labor


----------



## Aussiejeff (25 November 2007)

numbercruncher said:


> http://www.smh.com.au/news/federal-election-2007-news/meat-axe-to-public-service/2007/11/21/1195321867004.html
> 
> 
> This is great policy, hope there is no back flip here !




_"He _(Rudd)_ said he would meet the premiers within 100 days to begin revamping the health system. The Kyoto Protocol would be ratified immediately and within a year there would be an interim target for reducing greenhouse gas emissions and the roll-out of national broadband would have begun"_.

I agree, numbercruncher! BUT.... can the hostile (until July Next year) Liberal controlled senate block any or all of these proposed policy implementations? Realistically, for the new Labor government there might be a very uncomfortable and vitriolic 8 months ahead of them in the Senate. Lib Nick Minchin said just that last night, to the effect that "no way have Labor got any mandate from the electors to implement policy changes such as Workplace or IR reforms" and that they would be looking to block any legislation that "might affect jobs".

So, good luck Labor - you will need plenty in the short term.

Of course, if the Liberal Senators try to get too clever by half in blocking everything in sight, they might build another Tsunami Wave of Labor support come the next election. Can PM Rudd (if the Govt is faced with a hostile blocking senate that refuses to pass just about everything put to them) go to the GG and call for an emergency half senate election for the continuing senators be granted  - on the basis that the majority of Australia's voters have been gypped of their approved Labor mandate in the House of Reps?

AJ


----------



## 2020hindsight (25 November 2007)

not sure what the economists around here think - but I would have thought that raising the GST would be a good way to slow things down.  Assuming it's important that we get on top of inflation.  

possibly a two tier system that leaves 
bread and milk and 
public transport and 
good greenhouse policies 
(and other fiscal management tricks)
........ at a low or nil level

slows down spending on nonsense (plasma TVs etc)
hits the rich spendthrifts in the pocket rather than the strugglers
doesn't affect the exporters (where GST is refunded as it leaves the country
etc

Speaking of the need to help exporters - the high A$ is a killer.   As someone said, with high A$, a heap of oncosts for employers (long service leave etc), removal of tarriffs, then we won't be able to export (anything other than resources) - and we'll ALL be out of a job !

I was in business with a couple of other blokes - houses mortgaged to the hilt - employed up to 36 in manufacturing - obviously the banks loaded up our interest rates based on the perceived risk (should be illegal - some of these big banks carry on like mafia loan sharks) 

anyway, we received Export Development assistance from the govt (back in the pre Howard days) - what did it mean? - just the govt sent a letter to the bank saying i was ok to continue loaning us money - (they would gaurantee the loan "if, but, provided") - meanwhile the interest rates didn't change one iota ! - talk about smoke and mirrors. 

But like I say - GST was brilliant in giving exporters legal govt assistance - which was accepted as "ok" by the rest of the world ( if you recall the discussion of trade agreements in the 80's - level playing fields etc)


----------



## Aussie2Aussie (25 November 2007)

Well, I have already put my order in for the sticker:

DONT BLAME ME, I VOTED LIBERAL

The Y generation are about to learn what every generation learns; it is a steep learning curve, but a big chunk of Liberal voters will come out the other end.


----------



## 2020hindsight (25 November 2007)

2020hindsight said:


> - obviously the banks loaded up our interest rates based on the perceived risk (should be illegal - some of these big banks carry on like mafia loan sharks)



I mean, speaking about on-costs

does anyone think it's "right" or "productive" or "in the aussie interest" or "good for business"  that ...

(maybe not at the moment - but a year or two back) 

National Bank NAB was vying with BHP as to which was the biggest Australian  

Banks are just parasites in all this (imo)


----------



## Aussie2Aussie (25 November 2007)

Aussiejeff said:


> _"He _(Rudd)_  Can PM Rudd (if the Govt is faced with a hostile blocking senate that refuses to pass just about everything put to them) go to the GG and call for an emergency half senate election for the continuing senators be granted  - on the basis that the majority of Australia's voters have been gypped of their approved Labor mandate in the House of Reps?
> 
> AJ_



_

You cant have a half senate election without a double dissolution, the risk being that you will put under the hammer all of your seats in the House of Reps. You would want to be sure that you will not get a swing against you, as you may loose some of your governing majority._


----------



## Aussiejeff (25 November 2007)

Doh! I forgot that Rudd can actually call a *double dissolution* of both houses of Parliament if the Liberal Senate turns hostile on legislation he feels was mandated by the Australian electors.

Should I predict a return to the polling booth pre-July next year? 

Or should I have faith that the Lib senators won't be too spiteful after the "shredding" of so many of their colleagues last night?


AJ


----------



## Knobby22 (25 November 2007)

2020hindsight said:


> not sure what the economists around here think - but I would have thought that raising the GST would be a good way to slow things down.  Assuming it's important that we get on top of inflation.
> 
> )




You've got to be kidding! Raising the GST will increase inflation!

Rudd has it right. At present most of the money goes to the Federal government who have more than they can spend yet State Governments are starved for cash to run hospitals etc. Rudd needs to improve Federation by working out a better system of managing the public infrastructure without duplication. It is an area he is a specialist in and with Labor states on all levels he may succeed. Upping the GST which is a regressive tax would just be dumb.


----------



## Julia (25 November 2007)

Aussiejeff said:


> [
> Of course, if the Liberal Senators try to get too clever by half in blocking everything in sight, they might build another Tsunami Wave of Labor support come the next election. Can PM Rudd (if the Govt is faced with a hostile blocking senate that refuses to pass just about everything put to them) go to the GG and call for an emergency half senate election for the continuing senators be granted  - on the basis that the majority of Australia's voters have been gypped of their approved Labor mandate in the House of Reps?
> 
> AJ



Well, I hope the Liberal senators think carefully about allowing their bitterness to prompt them to block Labor's policies in the Senate.  The backlash from the population against them for doing that would imo be considerable.  Time to be reasonable now.


----------



## nioka (25 November 2007)

Aussie2Aussie said:


> Well, I have already put my order in for the sticker:
> 
> DONT BLAME ME, I VOTED LIBERAL
> 
> The Y generation are about to learn what every generation learns; it is a steep learning curve, but a big chunk of Liberal voters will come out the other end.




 Where do you get the stickers. I want one that says" THANK ME I VOTED LABOR"


----------



## 2020hindsight (25 November 2007)

Aussie2Aussie said:


> You cant have a half senate election without a double dissolution, the risk being that you will put under the hammer all of your seats in the House of Reps. You would want to be sure that you will not get a swing against you, as you may loose some of your governing majority.




Actually it's a hung senate. :-
coaltion loses its majority end of the jun2008.

early days but ....

Coalition 37
ALP 32
Greens look like 5 (these would balance , 32+5 = 37 ) 

I hope this Xenophon bloke (ant pokies) isn't Xenophobic etc..

"ok Mr Rudd it's ok to declare war on Fiji - just as long as you ban all pokermachines after 9pm" .. etc


(sheesh don't talk about double dissolutionment - and the big risk that Johnny howard might get back in lol)   no way !! - don't go there !! 

(PS end of the democrats - Meg Lees did a good job way back there when GST was introduced etc - imo) 



> http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/25/2100442.htm
> Greens, Xenophon likely to hold Senate balance
> Posted 1 hour 56 minutes ago
> Updated 1 hour 26 minutes ago
> ...


----------



## Knobby22 (25 November 2007)

nioka said:


> Where do you get the stickers. I want one that says" THANK ME I VOTED LABOR"




Good one!


----------



## Aussie2Aussie (25 November 2007)

Aussiejeff said:


> Doh! I forgot that Rudd can actually call a *double dissolution* of both houses of Parliament if the Liberal Senate turns hostile on legislation he feels was mandated by the Australian electors.
> 
> Should I predict a return to the polling booth pre-July next year?
> 
> ...




No, July is to soon, he (Rudd) would want to get some runs on the board first and my prediction is that the world economy will be an ugly place by mid next year, which will be showing through here.

In the meantime Rudd will be break the heart of the unions, state governments, hospitals and people looking for cheap entry into the property market, that or he will damn the economy.

The balance of power will be held by Nick ...... something greek, from SA, which will deny the Greens their wet dream of controlling the Senate. All of this so much reminds me of 1972 and you know where that ended.


----------



## Julia (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



Smurf1976 said:


> I find this argument somewhat like the argument for cheap drugs.
> 
> We shouldn't raise the price of credit because that will hurt so many who depend on it.
> 
> ...



Smurf, it seems a bit odd to me to compare the cost of interest rates with the cost of addictive drugs!!
Usually I have the greatest of respect for your views, but not this time.
I don't think it's fair - in light of John Howard at the last election suggesting (though carefully not actually saying) that re-election of a Liberal government would ensure low (stable) interest rates - not to consider the impact of rising rates on not just home owners, but business owners, plus all our large companies.  

Accept your point, however, about stability of rates.  How do you think this could best be achieved?  Are you saying that if it were possible to guarantee the stability of , say, the cash rate at 8% then everyone would be better off????


----------



## Aussie2Aussie (25 November 2007)

2020hindsight said:


> Actually it's a hung senate. :-
> coaltion loses its majority end of the jun2008.




That has nothing to do with what I was saying about a double dissolution.


----------



## numbercruncher (25 November 2007)

justjohn said:


> LABOR targeted the young vote cleverly ,my 18year old daughter and friends  seen Rudd on Sunrise ,Rove heard him on FM radio knew he was on Myspace and related to the Kevin07 campange so this bunch of first time voters thought her was cool and voted Labor




True ....

But the Liberals never quite comprehended that their voter base was the working class, and in their typical secretive arrogance turned on the working class with these stupid Industrial relations changes.

This election loss for lib is a collection of many things, look how many votes the Greens got, massive ! The enviromental vote must of been huge, shown not just in the amount the green's got but Labor would of got a huge amount of votes on Enviromental policy alone.

So you could pretty much sum up Liberal's humiliating loss from three areas, Working class turning, enviromental vote and the young (gen y especially). Also alot of older voters struggling at the poverty line on Government pensions.

Next election will be the big test for Labor. But i expect 90pc of people coming of voting age between now and then will go Labor or Green. Our nation and indeed the planet does after all belong to the next generation, we merely borrow it from them


----------



## 2020hindsight (25 November 2007)

aussie 2 aussie 2 aussie - oi oi oi ...
You are forgetting that I responded to what you said to aussie jeff 

PS as for whether its double dissolution or a double dissolutionment - I still prefer my spelling . 



aussiejeff] ... Can PM Rudd (if the Govt is faced with a hostile blocking senate that refuses to pass just about everything put to them) go to the GG and call for an emergency half senate election for the continuing senators be granted ?[/QUOTE]
great question

[QUOTE=aussie2aussie] You cant have a half senate election without a double dissolution said:


> That has nothing to do with what I was saying about a double dissolution.



I thought it was relevant that at least the coalition had lost it's majority??
you disagree obviously - good for you  m8 lol.
I'm off to the beach - I reckon the sun is looking magic today.


----------



## Julia (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



numbercruncher said:


> Julia .... Julia ....... you really should of listened to the Labor adverts or read the kevin07 website there is literally dozens of differences .......



Numbercruncher, Numbercruncher (that's a lot more typing than Julia, Julia),
please, please stop saying "should of".  In a perverse sort of way I am sort of vaguely fond of you, but this is driving me insane.  Please, please:  *should have.*




> A education revolution



A catch phrase which has been repeated faithfully by all party members.
We will wait and see what the revolution will consist of.  A friend of mine who is a teacher said "well, laptops for teachers would be a start!"





> Abolishing workchoices



Another slogan.  In reality they are going to tweak it around the edges.




> Repairing our Hospital system



Easier said than done.  Chronic shortage of doctors and nurses .
Nonetheless, they can't do worse than the current situation which is dire.




> NO Nuclear reactors in your neighbourhood



I am uncommitted at this stage about nuclear energy but imagine it will have to be a reality at some stage.  Meantime, yes, I do like that they will at least attempt to give some attention to wind and solar etc.  Not sure, though, how feasible that is on any sort of large scale.





> Dental care



I've already pointed out on another thread that this sounds terrific, is terrific, hugely needed, BUT there is a chronic shortage of dentists so I'm not sure how they are going to do this.
And yes, before anyone feels obliged to point out that the shortage of said dentists is as a result of - like doctors - the Commonwealth withdrawing places/funding, I absolutely agree and think Mr Howard et al should be shot for this. (well perhaps not quite such a severe punishment, but close.)



[QUOTE}Ratifying Kyoto[/QUOTE]
OK, fine.  But Kyoto is yesterday's agreement now.



[QUOTE}A world class broadband network{/QUOTE]
Oh, right.  I think that was the initial claim.  But later it was changed to "wherever possible".  So if you're not currently able to access broadband, don't hold your breath expecting Labor to provide it in the next five minutes.





> come on your surely pulling my leg, you hadnt heard of any of this ? Liberals dont want anything to do with these extremist policy's. Could propbably view this election as Generational change as much as anything else.




Now there I think you are 100% right.  Generational change is probably the greatest single factor.

Look, Numbercruncher, although I voted for the Libs you know that I was less than delighted to do so.  I think Kevin Rudd is very bright and perhaps he will indeed be a different sort of Labor leader and will fulfil his promise of 'governing for all Australians".  It's great that there are so many women in Parliament.  I don't much like Julia Gillard but again she is very bright and perhaps she too will prove herself to not be the tool of the Unions.

The speeches from all the leaders, failed and successful, last night were impressive and a credit to each of them.  From now on, I and I think many other people who were previous Liberal supporters, will genuinely look forward to hopefully seeing an innovative new government.

With kind regards
(and no, I would never, ever pull your leg!)
Julia


----------



## 2020hindsight (25 November 2007)

Aussie2Aussie said:
			
		

> You cant have a half senate election without a double dissolution, the risk being that you will put under the hammer all of your seats in the House of Reps. You would want to be sure that you will not get a swing against you, as you may loose some of your governing majority.






			
				2020hindsight said:
			
		

> Actually it's a hung senate. .. etc :-
> coaltion loses its majority end of the jun2008.
> 
> *(sheesh don't talk about double dissolutionment - and the big risk that Johnny howard might get back in lol) no way !! - don't go there !! *




PS a2a - I was agreeing with you, and speculating on the horrible possibilities btw   - 

I think you'll find that not even Johnny himself wants him to come back. 

PS This last election was as much a referendum on one man "JH" as it was about any number of other things. (morals etc)


----------



## 2020hindsight (25 November 2007)

Aussie2Aussie said:


> The balance of power will be held by Nick ...... something greek, from SA, which will deny the Greens their wet dream of controlling the Senate.



Nick Xenophon 
refer the post you dismissed as nothing to do with etc 

PS there is no truth in the rumour that he put $5K on the pokies at 20 to 1 , and crossed his fingers - and when it won - that's how he financed his campaign 

PS As I say back there let's hope he's not Xenophobic. 

PS as for denying the greens their dreams ( wet or dry - more likely dry these days - given global warming )  - 
it's one thing not to have majority
but it's another not to be relevant.
 And no way will they be irrelevant with 5 senators - looking at that finely balanced scenario (first glance anyway)


----------



## Knobby22 (25 November 2007)

2020hindsight said:


> PS a2a -
> 
> PS This last election was as much a referendum on one man "JH" as it was about any number of other things. (morals etc)




Good point! The Liberals used to have more of the moral high ground over Labor. 
In this election they felt a bit "dirty" with some of the racist wedging tactics and nasty thing their supporters were saying (and doing in at least one well known case). 

It disgusted me that when Maxine McKew appeared, in the Liberal rooms one young Liberal supporter yelled out "get a facelift you old moll". The Liberals have to have a look at why they are getting such ugly supporters at the present and do something about it.


----------



## 2020hindsight (25 November 2007)

Knobby22 said:


> Good point! The Liberals used to have more of the moral high ground over Labor.
> In this election they felt a bit "dirty" with some of the racist wedging tactics and nasty thing their supporters were saying (and doing in at least one well known case).
> 
> It disgusted me that when Maxine McKew appeared, in the Liberal rooms one young Liberal supporter yelled out "get a facelift you old moll". The Liberals have to have a look at why they are getting such ugly supporters at the present and do something about it.




Not wrong m8 
 and such justice that Maxine probably got across the line due to that racial bogus "Islamic" handout in Lindsay ....

probably cost JH his seat 

how appropriate that racial "doubletalk" (which helped him so much in the past) was his final undoing ( again IMO ) 

(I still hope to see Jackie Kelly and co brought to justice - let's get the message across that aussies don't like cheats - especially racial bigot "gangs")


----------



## numbercruncher (25 November 2007)

Knobby22 said:


> It disgusted me that when Maxine McKew appeared, in the Liberal rooms one young Liberal supporter yelled out "get a facelift you old moll". The Liberals have to have a look at why they are getting such ugly supporters at the present and do something about it.




Yes ive noticed this over time too, and the rude interuptions and yelling during the ex pms speech. Seem the liberals have been attracting alot of ugly supporters as you say.

Another thing ive never seen a (ex) PM get so much heckling and abuse whilst out and about, probably a sign of diminishing society values as much as frustration over his divisive and feudal policies.


----------



## Aussiejeff (25 November 2007)

Knobby22 said:


> Good point! The Liberals used to have more of the moral high ground over Labor.
> In this election they felt a bit "dirty" with some of the racist wedging tactics and nasty thing their supporters were saying (and doing in at least one well known case).
> 
> It disgusted me that when Maxine McKew appeared, in the Liberal rooms one young Liberal supporter yelled out "get a facelift you old moll". The Liberals have to have a look at why they are getting such ugly supporters at the present and do something about it.




On the ABC radio here in Wodonga this morning, they played a sound grab of an hysterical female Liberal supporter after JH gave his farewell speech sobbing uncontrollably and totally beside herself and yelling something like _"I love John Howard - how could Australia vote him out ... I HATE Australians now, I wish I wasn't Australian any more ... I HATE Australia!!"_ 

I'm not sure even JH himself would have approved of such "anti-Australian" hate sentiment by an Australian citizen......

I think that sort of uncontrolled, emotional outburst by this fanatical supporter sums up the very socially divisive nature of the Howard years.... I honestly hope for this country's sake that this sort of bitterness and scorn dies down over the coming months.


----------



## Aussiejeff (25 November 2007)

Aussie2Aussie said:


> No, July is to soon, he (Rudd) would want to get some runs on the board first and my prediction is that the world economy will be an ugly place by mid next year, which will be showing through here.
> 
> In the meantime Rudd will be break the heart of the unions, state governments, hospitals and people looking for cheap entry into the property market, that or he will damn the economy.
> 
> The balance of power will be held by Nick ...... something greek, from SA, which will deny the Greens their wet dream of controlling the Senate. All of this so much reminds me of 1972 and you know where that ended.




If, as you predict, everything will be so much worse by July next year, why wouldn't Rudd be better moving to a Double Dissolution ASAP? There would still be plenty of support for him in the "honeymoon" period, without waiting for the wheels to fall off like Gough.

AJ


----------



## numbercruncher (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



Julia said:


> Numbercruncher, Numbercruncher (that's a lot more typing than Julia, Julia),
> please, please stop saying "should of".  In a perverse sort of way I am sort of vaguely fond of you, but this is driving me insane.  Please, please:  *should have.*





Fair Julia ... Fair Julia ......


I will most certainly try to accomodate this grammar fetish, I should have from the very beginning.


----------



## ithatheekret (25 November 2007)

2020hindsight said:


> PS This last election was as much a referendum on one man "JH" as it was about any number of other things. (morals etc)





I think Bennelongs swing after 30 years semaphores that clearly .

Australia has spoken loudly , with 85 seats , I think they screamed it out at the booths .

Some of the tactics put to use by a few Liberals support groups , is nothing less than unconscionable conduct , unbecoming of an Australian and having denigrated the fair go forum that the majority of Australians adhere to and hold sacred .


----------



## robots (25 November 2007)

hello,

its all about johnny and getting rid of HIM,

labor will tweak everthing just a little and then Rudd will bail out like bracks and beattie when it gets too hard

at least JH takes it to the people

thankyou

robots


----------



## skint (25 November 2007)

The coming year will indeed be interesting. With the coalition and f/first together having 38 seats, the best labor can hope for is 38 also {labor (32), the greens (5) and zenaphon (1)}. In light of the political fallout, the coalition may (key word - may) agree to some changes such as ratifying Kyoto, but its a real stretch to see them supporting IR changes etc.. How many feel a double dissolution is a 'when' rather than an 'if'? Maybe both parties will continue with internal polling to guage their prospects, in the event of both houses be dissolved. Maybe labor will call it on the 11/11/08 for old times sake lol.


----------



## Lounge Lizard (25 November 2007)

It seems many on this forum fail to grasp the signifigance of this election victory by Rudd, suggesting that nothing will change or that Labor will be straight back out the door again next election.  The Liberal party as a whole has been utterly devastated by this loss.  I suggest anyone who doubts this has a close look at Andrew Bolt's comments on the ABC's Insiders program this morning.  Bolt is as sober, realistic and conservative as they come.


----------



## Julia (25 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



numbercruncher said:


> Fair Julia ... Fair Julia ......
> 
> 
> I will most certainly try to accomodate this grammar fetish, I should have from the very beginning.



Dear Numbercruncher,

You are very kind to indulge me.  Thank you so much.

In gratitude.
Julia


----------



## moXJO (25 November 2007)

This should be an interesting few years. I voted labor even with my small business senses tingling. Mainly because I do believe Rudd will achieve or attempts too achieve a lot in the next year. While I am concerned about what he has planned as far as unfair dismissal laws and the like I'll worry about it when it rolls round. IMO education and health needed some collaboration between state and federal so lets see if labor has the goods and isn’t all spin like their US style campaign. Not to keen on their front bench though. And hoping the unions won’t be a headache. Been a long while since labor was in, hope they don't make the same mistakes of the past.

If you’re an employee its great times, small business owner then its uncertain times. Time will tell...


----------



## 2020hindsight (25 November 2007)

2020hindsight said:


> Nick Xenophon
> ..



this bloke (Nick Xenophon) sounds like a great blend of Labor and Green 
- really keen to see the Murray sorted out
- and says he will probably vote with Labor on the rest.
But he shares leadership with Family First. - Now that will be interesting 

Blue Corner:-
37 Coalition
1 Family First Steve Fielding 
= 38 total

Green Corner
32 Lab
5 Green
1 Anti-pokies - Nick Xenophon
= 38 total 

PS How stupid to have 76 seats ? - why not 75 or even 77 ?



skint said:


> The coming year will indeed be interesting. With the coalition and f/first together having 38 seats, the best labor can hope for is 38 also {labor (32), the greens (5) and zenaphon (1)}. In light of the political fallout, the coalition may (key word - may) agree to some changes such as ratifying Kyoto, but its a real stretch to see them supporting IR changes etc.. How many feel a double dissolution is a 'when' rather than an 'if'? Maybe both parties will continue with internal polling to guage their prospects, in the event of both houses be dissolved. Maybe labor will call it on the 11/11/08 for old times sake lol.



oops sorry skint - you've already posted that 

I like the idea that it's a brave senate that takes em on on something like Kyoto - (even on IR - but YOU COULD BE RIGHT ) 
I mean it would guarantee a second term for Labor etc . - all as said by someone else back there, Knobby or A2A or someone 
- (agreed?)

They can only ever contemplate double dissolution after a number of senate knockbacks on serious matters. - must be blocked twice etc 



> http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/08/29/2018454.htm
> A double dissolution requires a bill to be blocked on two occasions at least three months apart.
> 
> Even after this Senate's term expires mid next year, Labor is not likely to control the Upper House.


----------



## chops_a_must (25 November 2007)

skint said:


> How many feel a double dissolution is a 'when' rather than an 'if'? Maybe both parties will continue with internal polling to guage their prospects, in the event of both houses be dissolved. Maybe labor will call it on the 11/11/08 for old times sake lol.




Yep.

With the Liberals in real trouble, being absolutely smacked, it is an opportune time to do it in my opinion. Leaderless and losing some of their youngest and best talent, would surely be a big problem for them fighting another campaign in quick time.

It's funny how the media have gone from saying the "inexperienced shadow cabinet" to the "front bench spoiled for choice and talent" in such quick time. Greg Gailey came out and said today that the Labor reforms wont have any impact on unemployment. Gee... what a surprise.

Just a pity The Greens couldn't quite get the votes they needed to get the balance. But at least now they are THE legitimate third party in Australian politics (which has been the plan as long as I've been involved, and is the same in European countries). And it's hard to see a conservative government getting power again so long as it stays that way.

I'm over the moon the Democrats have been kicked out. After all, it was their preferences that handed a win to the Libs in 2001. Yep... campaign on refugee rights only to preference the nationals and libs over the greens. What a bunch of scumbags. And it's no loss that they are gone.


----------



## 2020hindsight (25 November 2007)

chops_a_must said:


> It's funny how the media have gone from saying the "inexperienced shadow cabinet" to the "front bench spoiled for choice and talent" in such quick time.



chops - Lol - yep now you mention it, I noticed that too....

"Labor have a MASS of brilliant talent to chose from !" etc


----------



## Aussie2Aussie (25 November 2007)

Aussiejeff said:


> If, as you predict, everything will be so much worse by July next year, why wouldn't Rudd be better moving to a Double Dissolution ASAP? There would still be plenty of support for him in the "honeymoon" period, without waiting for the wheels to fall off like Gough.
> 
> AJ





He needs a reason and he wont get that until at least late next year.

Between now and when the senate power shifts is not enough time to build a case, he will have served at least 17 months before he could blame senate obstruction.


----------



## numbercruncher (26 November 2007)

My new hero already proving to be good to his word (smashing the coalition into tiny pieces like a sledge hammer hitting a crystal vase was just a bonus )





> KEVIN Rudd has told world leaders Australia will ratify the Kyoto Protocol on climate change within weeks and has ordered senior bureaucrats to move quickly to draft new industrial relations laws.




http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,22821493-952,00.html

How refreshing is it to have a PM that sticks to his word with 24hrs of taking the top job - nearly unbelievable!


----------



## Kimosabi (26 November 2007)

numbercruncher said:


> My new hero already proving to be good to his word (smashing the coalition into tiny pieces like a sledge hammer hitting a crystal vase was just a bonus )
> 
> 
> 
> ...



More importantly, when are the Troops leaving Iraq.


----------



## numbercruncher (26 November 2007)

Kimosabi said:


> More importantly, when are the Troops leaving Iraq.





Im not sure removing troops from Iraq is more important than climate change, but anyhow Combat troops im sure will soon begin a staged withdrawl.

We actually have a moral responsibility to leave reconstruction troops there to help rebuild their shattered nation, after all we were stupid enough to follow Dubbya in thier and dismantle the place.

It still drives me nuts, that in the name of "oil Security" (saddam was a nutter that need sorting out too) the Yanks have blown enough money to convert the US to virtually all green/low/zero emission , not only that but the debt has crashed the value of their currency which will inturn double the price of converting to green later.

One of the greatest tragedys of the modern world imho.


----------



## numbercruncher (26 November 2007)

*Re: KEVIN RUDD - Wins the Australian Federal election !*



Julia said:


> Dear Numbercruncher,
> 
> You are very kind to indulge me.  Thank you so much.
> 
> ...





Always a pleasure to Indulge


----------



## chops_a_must (26 November 2007)

Kimosabi said:


> More importantly, when are the Troops leaving Iraq.




Half way through next year I think the last of them will leave. From what I can gather.


----------



## numbercruncher (26 November 2007)

Our Legendary PM is straight into the "Education Revoulution" , bless his cotton socks 





> PRIME Minister-elect Kevin Rudd has ordered his MPs to each visit two schools before Thursday's caucus meeting, making education a priority.
> 
> Mr Rudd and deputy Julia Gillard visited Southern Cross College, at Scarborough north of Brisbane, to discuss his "education revolution".
> 
> Mr Rudd told reporters education was his top priority and he had instructed all members of his caucus to visit a government and non-government school in their electorates in the next two days




http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,22821493-952,00.html


----------



## Smurf1976 (26 November 2007)

numbercruncher said:


> Im not sure removing troops from Iraq is more important than climate change, but anyhow Combat troops im sure will soon begin a staged withdrawl.
> 
> We actually have a moral responsibility to leave reconstruction troops there to help rebuild their shattered nation, after all we were stupid enough to follow Dubbya in thier and dismantle the place.
> 
> ...



Whoever gets away from oil first will be the long term winner IMO.

Trying to secure access to the stuff has an awful lot in common with a drug addict coming up with an elaborate strategy to secure ongoing (increasing) supply. 

In the long term the use ends whether it's drugs, oil etc. The means by which the use ends, voluntary versus involuntary, determines the survival or death of the addict.

IMO the whole Iraq adventure will ultimately bring about the downfall of the US as the world's leading economic nation simply because of the "cling to the past" aspect of it all. It was an opportunity wasted on a massive scale.

But to be fair, there's an awful lot of vested interests pushing to keep the status quo. Look at Australian politics - Labor, Liberal and Green all have policies which depend on continued access to oil no matter what claims they might make.


----------



## 2020hindsight (26 November 2007)

chops_a_must said:


> Half way through next year I think the last of them will leave. From what I can gather.




mmm I think he'll leave several hundred to look after the embassy m8    Question then is, will he also leave the Navy ( another couple hundred maybe ?  

But several hundred coming home by the same token ( must check out the true numbers one of these days - this is pretty old speculation on my part)


----------



## Smurf1976 (26 November 2007)

2020hindsight said:


> I mean, speaking about on-costs
> 
> does anyone think it's "right" or "productive" or "in the aussie interest" or "good for business"  that ...
> 
> ...



It's not just banks. The past 25+ years have seen a massive shift away from productive industries towards non-productive industries. That's how we ended up with a massive current account deficit in the middle of a resources boom and a "third world" economy that depends on digging things up and selling them for the going rate.

All political parties are somewhat to blame. Liberal's "leave it to the market" hasn't worked that's pretty obvious. Shifting from productive to non-productive is the central plank of Green economic policy and has been since the party's very beginnings. Labor'a bit less certain but they don't seem to have a clear plan to focus on anything productive, indeed much of their policy focus is the opposite.

It's a matter of choosing the best of a bad bunch IMO. There isn't one politician who I could point to as telling the whole story and pursing anything genuinely exciting. At best it comes down to telling lies by omission. At worst it's outright lies.


----------



## 2020hindsight (26 November 2007)

Gee but I look forward to Rudd attending Bali, and declaring that Australia is "under new management" , and finally prepared to come on board with the rest of the world with treaties on fighting Global Warming 

beyond aspirational targets that is 

leaving USA out in the cold - (yessss!!!!)
(or rather out in the hot , whatever)


----------



## 2020hindsight (26 November 2007)

Smurf1976 said:


> At best it comes down to telling lies by omission. At worst it's outright lies.



Smurf - Well said - we get suckered in don't we - 

I mean Woolworths is ridiculously expensive, but will soon have a monopoly or duopoly on everything including petrol.  and Why ? just because they are convenient.

Then there's the banks - even worse - so much profit, yet they close down branches !! - forget the service.  And the fees   and profits just keep climbing   


re pollies - Smurf, I hope you're not saying "you can tell the ones who are lying - they're the ones whose lips are moving?"


----------



## flinders (26 November 2007)

Just in ,  our new PM  will say "sorry"  very early in first term!!


----------



## Broadside (26 November 2007)

flinders said:


> Just in ,  our new PM  will say "sorry"  very early in first term!!




he'll say sorry?  has he stuffed up already....I knew it!! what's he done?


----------



## Aussiejeff (26 November 2007)

flinders said:


> Just in ,  our new PM  will say "sorry"  very early in first term!!




Will that be a "regretful" type of "sorry" or a "sorry" type of "sorry". Sorry, I'm confused after that other guy's difficulty in saying "sorry" and what he meant by "sorry"

Sorry again,


AJ


----------



## 2020hindsight (26 November 2007)

Broadside said:


> he'll say sorry?  has he stuffed up already....I knew it!! what's he done?



Nothing - he will be speaking on behalf of the govt. 

Remember how we were told how popular the intervention was in the Ab communities? - that the women loved it etc.?

Apparently Labour polled in excess of 80% in those areas, and as high as 98% 

PS The Abs now have their highest ever politician (although I thought Senator Bonner did ok in his day) ..

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/26/2101345.htm



> Deputy Chief (NT) Minister Marion Scrymgour, who now holds the most senior position in any government in Australia ever held by an Aboriginal.




btw, she was the one who called the intervention "a black kids Tampa" and 'McCarthyism'
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/10/29/2074089.htm


> Rudd unaware of 'pressure' on Scrymgour
> Posted Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:48pm AEDT
> 
> Federal Opposition Leader Kevin Rudd says he is not aware of any efforts by Federal Labor to push a Northern Territory minister into recanting on a speech that attacked the Indigenous intervention.
> ...


----------



## Broadside (26 November 2007)

I guess if it was unpopular policy it must be bad policy and Brough had it coming.

I am sure everything will now be fixed with ALP at both levels of government.


----------



## 2020hindsight (26 November 2007)

Broadside said:


> I guess if it was unpopular policy it must be bad policy and Brough had it coming.
> 
> I am sure everything will now be fixed with ALP at both levels of government.



well I agree with Julia that if Mal Brough is so keen about helping the Abs, he should become Police Minister in Qld and do something about manning the various police stations there with good police.  

-   no longer will he be able to pinch police from the states (incl NSW sheesh) who are struggling to adequately man their own  police stations, let alone give police to the federal govt.


----------



## Aussie2Aussie (26 November 2007)

Funny how Maxine although saying Bennelong is now Labor has not claimed victory.

I have a theory why...

She already knows she aint getting anything special eg Assistant blah blah(or anything at all) when Rudd announces his shadow cabinet on Thursday.

So long as she is not "officially" a member of caucus she is saved the embarssement of being overlooked. Smart man her husband.


----------



## moXJO (26 November 2007)

Kimosabi said:


> More importantly, when are the Troops leaving Iraq.




Air force and Navy are staying last time I heard. Rudd placed a bet either way. The army has been doing a good job in spite of the situation they were handed by training and helping the locals. Really all the troops should be pulled out.


----------



## Julia (26 November 2007)

numbercruncher said:


> My new hero already proving to be good to his word (smashing the coalition into tiny pieces like a sledge hammer hitting a crystal vase was just a bonus )
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Goodness, Numbercruncher, by tomorrow he'll probably be walking on water!


----------



## 2020hindsight (26 November 2007)

well today was a great day on the market - (BHP etc) 
probably just a coincidence lol .


----------



## numbercruncher (26 November 2007)

Smurf1976 said:


> Whoever gets away from oil first will be the long term winner IMO.




Your absolutely spot on Smurf, and like your self Ruddmeister is a smart man and realises this.

I believe the first nations to develop and roll out viable large scale green technolgies are going to reap untold riches ... Lets hope Labor can take us forward to be a nation of Leaders rather than followers as we always seem to be.

And yes the continued access to oil is central to everything .... still.


----------



## numbercruncher (27 November 2007)

Julia said:


> Goodness, Numbercruncher, by tomorrow he'll probably be walking on water!




Im predicting a Knighthood at some point in the next decade 

Im also predicting him earning your vote at the next election


----------



## Aussiejeff (27 November 2007)

2020hindsight said:


> well today was a great day on the market - (BHP etc)
> probably just a coincidence lol .




Ooops! Honeymoon is over. US market has spoken in a lowww growling tone overnight. Back to the grindstones.




AJ


----------



## 2020hindsight (27 November 2007)

Aussiejeff said:


> Ooops! Honeymoon is over. US market has spoken in a lowww growling tone overnight. Back to the grindstones.



be interesting to see what happens to the miners BHP etc 
Allegedly that's where the unions and management will have to treat on eggshells not to have adverse effects. 
But I don't see too many iron ore miners / construction workers  complaining about their pay nor safety etc. 

as for the rest ... This was the Business Council's take on Sunday :-


> http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/25/2100508.htm?section=justin
> Unions won't rule Labor: Business Council
> Posted Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:41am AEDT
> 
> ...


----------



## Duckman#72 (27 November 2007)

numbercruncher said:


> Im predicting a Knighthood at some point in the next decade
> 
> Im also predicting him earning your vote at the next election




Are Republican Labor leaders eligible for knighthoods?

As far as earning my vote next time. I am the first to admit I have been very impressed with Kevin over the past 3 months and since being elected. He seems to have a real passion and desire to move Australia forward. I look forward to seeing what he does in this term. I have been very impressed.

Whether you liked him or not, in my opinion John Howard genuinely tried to do what he felt was right for the country. (Whether or not you agreed with those actions is another point) I think that is the type of person that Rudd appears to be.     

But my problem has never been Kevin. He is like the star player in the footy team, where the supporters say...."I wish we had another 10 like him". I just hope that the rest of Labor can keep up with his intellect, drive and vision. I have a real question mark over Garrett, Swan, Gillard etc.  But I promise Numbercruncher to keep an open mind. 

Now your turn Numbercruncher....did you hear Paul Keating on ABC radio yesterday? What did you think of that effort? That could be a new thread in itself. Isn't he the most bitter, pathetic, tormented and dillusional soul that has been in Australian politics? Everything revolves the Keating years!!! He even got a plug in about how his win over Hewson was more impressive than Rudds over Howards!!! 

Duckman


----------



## robots (27 November 2007)

hello,

looks like saying "sorry" maybe the first thing Krudd 07 is going to backflip on,

would of thought fairly easy task to complete yesterday or today, amazing nothing happened yet

also looks as though the market thinks Krudd 07 wont be too flash for the shareholders

thankyou

robots


----------



## chops_a_must (27 November 2007)

robots said:


> hello,
> 
> looks like saying "sorry" maybe the first thing Krudd 07 is going to backflip on,
> 
> ...




Ahahahahaha!

Yeah, that's why we didn't get a massive rally yesterday, or only a very slight decline after the US tanked last night.


----------



## numbercruncher (27 November 2007)

robots said:


> hello,
> 
> looks like saying "sorry" maybe the first thing Krudd 07 is going to backflip on,
> 
> ...




LOL Robots,

Better get comfortable friend, we are keeping this legendary Australian in the top job for a decade 

Dont worry Im pretty sure the world wont end tomorrow and youll still get to make some fat ca$h out of your houses. After all you get 2.5pc regardless what they sell for hey ?


----------



## robots (27 November 2007)

hello,

put in a hards days work and get renumerated appropriately, I guess thats fair

dont make me the subject though, lets focus on ruddie

thankyou

robots


----------



## numbercruncher (27 November 2007)

Good idea Robots ..

So tell us why do you think that the market thinks that PM Rudd wont be too good for shareholders, I mean the market falls a little today, the day after US markets fall, the same pattern thats been happening for months, but in this single negative day you think its PM Rudds fault ?

I mean there is alot of people on your wavelength that think a change of our Government is going to cause financial pain, but where is the proof ? and why do you beleive this to be the case ? Do you think we should be dumping stocks ?


----------



## numbercruncher (27 November 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> Now your turn Numbercruncher....did you hear Paul Keating on ABC radio yesterday? What did you think of that effort? That could be a new thread in itself. Isn't he the most bitter, pathetic, tormented and dillusional soul that has been in Australian politics? Everything revolves the Keating years!!! He even got a plug in about how his win over Hewson was more impressive than Rudds over Howards!!!
> 
> Duckman





Heya Duckman,

Thanks for your Input.

No i didnt hear It, but I heard some of the things mentioned, many things sounded a bit pathetic, maybe hes suffering from Grumpy old man syndrome ? I think its safe just to ignore the guy now, Im sure Johnny will start before too many years go by as well 

Over the last few election's much of Labors voter base has been turned off by constant winging style politics like Beasly and the psycho face Latham.

Its now a new dawn, perhaps a golden age for the party ... time will tell


----------



## robots (27 November 2007)

hello,

just keeping up the bash the "current" PM approach, the world will end under these guys, look at Victoria and Qld with the issues that have arisen in those states, 

no trains in Vic, no water solution, no housing solution, cant keep Ford going down in Geelong but plenty of committee's, consultants and boards looking at things

ruddie will walk away, 

thankyou

robots


----------



## chops_a_must (27 November 2007)

robots said:


> no water solution



So what about WA?

Rudd has mooted a plan to model the rest of Australia's water policy on WA's.


----------



## numbercruncher (27 November 2007)

Not to mention Labor has been in like 2 days, and have 10 years of Howard Government inaction and neglect to clean up after, no wonder Howard had such good surpluses to splash on Toys like Jetfigters and war games in Iraq, they fixed nothing and added around about zip in infrastructure !

I personally think Rudd is like a whirlwind with getting the ball rolling so far, can bet that Liberals are going to block anything and everything in the upper house just to be pests, and then you guys will be able to sit back and (falsely) say loook they arnt doing anything


----------



## robots (27 November 2007)

hello,

hang-on, like five state labor gov's isnt reasonable indication on what these guy's do to the world, they ruin things

too hard for bracks, walks out

too hard for beattie walks out,

a SA guy went not long ago also I think, 

this guy is a big big mistake for the world, everything was a copy of Howard's policies

thankyou

robots


----------



## numbercruncher (27 November 2007)

Hello Federal Government starved the states of crucial money for years, such as taking money out of the health system a decade ago, now everything is going to cost twice as much, short term savings for long term pain, Liberals personified. (sorta like customers of yours that didnt buy a house in 2000 and waited till 2007 to save more of a deposit!)

Now wall to wall Labor is chipping away at the problems and can cooperate with each other, Seems federal Liberal where probably using the hold back the money leverage to make states look bad in hope of getting re-elected and give Lib state oppositions better chance of election.

Thats my take on it anyway.


----------



## numbercruncher (27 November 2007)

> PRIME Minister elect Kevin Rudd will tasked his MPs to visit a homeless shelter in their area and deliver a report on the numbers of people turned away each night.
> 
> Mr Rudd used an appearance on ABC TV tonight to set the second batch of "homework" for the ALP MPs and Senators about to come into government following Labor's stunning election win on Saturday.
> 
> ...




http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,22832710-5003402,00.html

Hooley Dooley, whats up with this guy, a Heart and a conscience , he better becareful or a nation will fall in love with him


----------



## Julia (27 November 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> As far as earning my vote next time. I am the first to admit I have been very impressed with Kevin over the past 3 months and since being elected. He seems to have a real passion and desire to move Australia forward. I look forward to seeing what he does in this term. I have been very impressed.
> 
> Whether you liked him or not, in my opinion John Howard genuinely tried to do what he felt was right for the country. (Whether or not you agreed with those actions is another point) I think that is the type of person that Rudd appears to be.
> 
> ...



Duckman,
You could have written this for me.  I agree entirely with all you have said.
At this early stage, I feel quite positive about the new government, though as you have pointed out, this essentially just consists of Kevin Rudd so far.
My reservations - like yours - have not been about Mr Rudd, but rather his side kicks, especially Garrett whom I hope will not be appointed a Minister.

Still, Numbercruncher, it might be a good idea to just tone down the adoration a tiny bit.  Any new leader is going to be filled with adrenalin-sparked passion on finally achieving their goal.  I notice already that the promise during the campaign of "all students receiving their own laptops" has been changed to "sufficient computers in schools for all students".  Subtle but definite difference.  Noticed the same sort of qualifying language in Mr Rudd's interview on the "7.30 Report" this evening.  

So far he's doing pretty well, but I remain on the positive side of neutral for the next six months.


----------



## numbercruncher (27 November 2007)

Julia said:


> I notice already that the promise during the campaign of "all students receiving their own laptops" has been changed to "sufficient computers in schools for all students"..




I dont remeber that one Julia, I remember a means tested rebate (for Laptops,Internet etc etc) , maybe "sufficient computers in schools for all students" is extra on top of that ? Do you have a link for that, that states its been changed Julia please ?

What did he do on the 730 report ?


----------



## Kauri (27 November 2007)

In my view.......
 We have unfortunately replaced one politician with another, when what this country needs is a proven businessman,  all I can see for the future is more of the self=serving waffle aimed primarily at retaining "*power ??".* 
 Any competent company exec officer/financial officer would laugh at the wastage/lack of reinvestment of profits in favour of populism politics that these clowns have convinced us is good for us..... hey it's our country, our business, our future, our mistake....
  :sheep:

Cheers
..........Kauri


----------



## Duckman#72 (27 November 2007)

numbercruncher said:


> I dont remeber that one Julia, I remember a means tested rebate (for Laptops,Internet etc etc) , maybe "sufficient computers in schools for all students" is extra on top of that ? Do you have a link for that, that states its been changed Julia please ?
> 
> What did he do on the 730 report ?




Julia's right Numbercruncher - you need to tone it down a bit. I get the feeling you are dry humping your office chair as you type. 

Following is the announcement Kevin Rudd made during the election campaign:  

"Today I announce that if elected, Federal Labor will undertake a ground-breaking reform by providing for *every Australian secondary school student in years nine to 12 with access to their own computer* at school. This is an education revolution."

I hope that you are right about wall to wall Labor fixing up the health and education systems. Here in Qld all we hear about is "the blame game". Well Anna - there can't be anymore "blame game". Bligh and the rest of Beattie's cronies have been ****ing cash up against the wall and then crying poor for years. 

There have been a couple of things I've been pleased about since Rudd's elevation but watching Anna Bligh's smile widen when talking about the health system is not one of them.  

Duckman


----------



## numbercruncher (28 November 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> Julia's right Numbercruncher -
> Following is the announcement Kevin Rudd made during the election campaign:
> 
> "Today I announce that if elected, Federal Labor will undertake a ground-breaking reform by providing forevery Australian secondary school student in years *nine to 12 *with *access* to their own computer at school. This is an education revolution."




Yes so its access to for every student in nine to 12 as opposed to all students receiving a laptop, so nothing reneged yet!

I hope wall to wall works as well, cant be any worse than whats been going down for the last umpteen years.

Sorry for get so excited about this Government, its just the last one imho was absolutely pathetic and did very little for the people who voted them in, except treat them like Mushrooms.

If wall to wall doesnt work, well state elections just vote em out  , the voters obviously dont comepletely blame teh state Governments or they would of been ousted already surely ?


----------



## Rafa (28 November 2007)

wow... sending ministers to school and homeless shelter.... Bloody brilliant!

And as for this whole team issue... that is nonsense... it very easy to say, but the facts don't back it up.

Compare Howards team to Rudds...

Howard had at best one competent minister... Costello... and maybe one more up and comer in Turnbull (Costello himself thought howard was incompetent, but thats another story). 

Who else?? Downer? Andrews? Abott? Hockey? Vaile? Campbell? Nelson? Pyne? Coonan (the worst of the worst).... I mean come on... you guys need to say how these people are any good.... even with so called 11 years of experience... they are absolute rubbish!

His past ministers have been even worse...
Robert Hill? Ruddock? Vanstone? Reith? Campbell?

The thing with the labor ministers is that experience doesn't matter... 

Rudd has set a framework where a panel of ‘non political’ experts advise on policies direction and ministers just front it, not the other way around, where decisions were made purely on political motivation and to serve vested interest. (i.e. hospital takeovers, baby bonuses, pensioner bribes, buying useless american war machinery, kids overboard, haneef detention, fairness test, fair trade agreements, retaining single wheat desk, half baked water policy, not signing kyoto, some dodgy, unworkable wireless solution for the bush costing 1bill when the NextG network is already there... etc, etc...

Now decision will be made by non elected bureaucrats whose aim is whats best for Australia, not whats best for the political party… Rudd being a bureaucrat himself, values this immensely.


There was a reason Howard had to run a presidential style campaign against Rudd.... he knew his ministers were as incompetent as the others, even after 11 years of 'experience'


Labor on the other hand, even with being in office for a handful of days, has the potential to develop some real quality ministers with a lot of knowledge and passion in each of their portfolios... gillard in IR, tanner in finance, roxon in health, even garrett in the environment. Plus there is some serious intellectual quality in the wings in Mike Kelly, Greg Combet, Maxine McKew, Penny Wong, etc...

my only two concerns are treasury and foreign policy... but i would expect rudd himself to play a very hands on role in both of them.


----------



## robots (28 November 2007)

hello,

oh yeah Maxine MacKew, a tv performer, top talent

every student to have access to OWN computer, not sharing NC, OWN computer, backflipped ruddie

the first stage of burecratic rubbish has emerged from Ruddie, performance benchmarks

thankyou

robots


----------



## chops_a_must (28 November 2007)

robots said:


> the first stage of burecratic rubbish has emerged from Ruddie, performance benchmarks
> 
> thankyou
> 
> robots




Even boards of companies have performance benchmarks.


----------



## Aussie2Aussie (28 November 2007)

Re computers - it only goes to years 9 - 12. So dont get overly excited you kindy to year 8ers.


----------



## moXJO (28 November 2007)

Rudd had to come out firing he has to make a good impression over the next year which was what I was betting on. Should see some decent changes nothing ground breaking but better then what it is at the moment.

As far as states being starved of money that’s a bit of a farce N.S.W was flush with money with old Bob Carr at the helm he just found new and inventive ways to splurge it. Not to mention they fought the fed government every step of the way. At least now we have collaboration which should have happened long ago but both sides were too petty. 

The whole MP's going to homeless shelters thing is a good idea a lot of them already do this but for Rudd to publicize it is brilliant media usage.

As for the computers for every school is it an ongoing program where they are updated every couple of years? It is good for students to become tech savvy.

The thing to watch out for now(or the following years more likely) is sneaky tax increases


----------



## Duckman#72 (28 November 2007)

numbercruncher said:


> Yes so its access to for every student in nine to 12 as opposed to all students receiving a laptop, so nothing reneged yet!




To summarise - the word "access" completely overrides "their own computer".     

It is a great use of weasel words that Howard and the Coalition were always being lambasted for. Looks like they've learnt well in opposition. 

Duckman


----------



## Duckman#72 (28 November 2007)

numbercruncher said:


> I hope wall to wall works as well, cant be any worse than whats been going down for the last umpteen years.
> 
> If wall to wall doesnt work, well state elections just vote em out  , the voters obviously dont comepletely blame teh state Governments or they would of been ousted already surely ?




You obviously don't live in Queensland do you Numbercruncher?

The only thing more useless and unappealing than the State Government is the opposition. As we speak we have 8 members locked in a room trying to work out who is going to lead - and they can't even get that right (4 against 4)!!!! You speak as if you truely believe that the problems with the States is the Federal Government. I've got news for you NC - Qld is in a shambles - you pick a public sector and it has problems - and it hasn't been all Howards fault. 

Its too easy to say "things will be different now". And statements like that just validates people like Beattie who presided over the shambles. Federal Labor says that Howard didn't make the most of the boom times - what about Beattie and Qld Labor. The mining boom has provided millions to Qld over the past 7 years!!


----------



## AndrewM123 (28 November 2007)

Raining here in S,E Qld,....

Ruddie you legend !!! And after only 3 days


----------



## Julia (28 November 2007)

Well, I'm also in S.E. Qld. and there is bright sunshine here.  Does that mean Mr Rudd is only sending down the rain on those who voted for him?


----------



## numbercruncher (28 November 2007)

Hi Duckman,


Actually I live in the GC Hinterland, I know we are plagued with problems, Its seems nationwide to me,and lets hope Ruddy will stick with the end of the blame game pledge. Nothing needs more attention than the health system .....

But what do we expect, ive seen the GC population go from about 100k to well over 500k in like 10 years, what do you do ban new arrivals ? Were already operating at like full capacity this stuff simply cant be fixed over night its surely got to take a decade and by then at current growth rates the population largely fueled by retirees is likely to swell even further swamping a already well over burdoned hospital system. The politicians realise its population growth thats putting Infrastructure under such demand, I remember reading a while ago Beatie saying he didnt want anymore people moving to se Qld unless they had a skill to offer that the state needed ...

There's no quick fix, but SE qld in my opinion is still the greatest place on the planet  - just getting a bit too crowded now, who let the secret out!


----------



## Duckman#72 (28 November 2007)

Julia said:


> Well, I'm also in S.E. Qld. and there is bright sunshine here.  Does that mean Mr Rudd is only sending down the rain on those who voted for him?




Ha ha!! I think you're right Julia. No rain here either.


----------



## AndrewM123 (28 November 2007)

Stopped here now..... but my water tank is full.    Thanks Kev

Now if only he will get AUD/USD heading north again..


----------



## Julia (28 November 2007)

numbercruncher said:


> Yes so its access to for every student in nine to 12 as opposed to all students receiving a laptop, so nothing reneged yet!




Big difference actually.  If a student can have the use of a computer for 30 minutes per week then he/she "has access to a computer".  Completely different from having their own.


----------



## Julia (28 November 2007)

moXJO said:


> The whole MP's going to homeless shelters thing is a good idea a lot of them already do this but for Rudd to publicize it is brilliant media usage.



Before everyone gets too carried away about Mr Rudd's concern for the disadvantaged of our society, I'd point out that he - like Liberal - has ruled out increasing the rate of the Single Aged Pension.  This is below the poverty line.  Many of these people have no savings so will not benefit from any tax cuts.   We should not be perpetuating middle class welfare with non-means-tested rebates in various areas while our elderly are struggling.


----------



## Julia (28 November 2007)

AndrewM123 said:


> Stopped here now..... but my water tank is full.    Thanks Kev
> 
> Now if only he will get AUD/USD heading north again..



Well, if you're asking him to arrange that, could you please ask him to reverse the current decline on our sharemarket?  Should be no problem to him at all.


----------



## justjohn (28 November 2007)

WHATS HIS NEXT AGENDA ,THAT EVERY LABOR POLLY VISIT A BROTHEL OR EXPERIENCE A GOOD LAP DANCE OR TWO..............SWEET MEMMORIES KEVY BABY I HOPE YOU REMEMBER THIS ONE:


----------



## Happy (28 November 2007)

Many times it was mentioned that we should have genuine tax reform.

As Julia said before we have some payments no means tested, also we have tax that starts on income p.a. below $10,000 and people receive various financial benefits up to almost $50,000 p.a.


----------



## noco (28 November 2007)

numbercruncher said:


> Not to mention Labor has been in like 2 days, and have 10 years of Howard Government inaction and neglect to clean up after, no wonder Howard had such good surpluses to splash on Toys like Jetfigters and war games in Iraq, they fixed nothing and added around about zip in infrastructure !
> 
> I personally think Rudd is like a whirlwind with getting the ball rolling so far, can bet that Liberals are going to block anything and everything in the upper house just to be pests, and then you guys will be able to sit back and (falsely) say loook they arnt doing anything




Ha NC, DIDN'T Labor do the same thing to the Coalition 3 years ago in the Senate? You should take a tea spoon of sugar as the medicine goes down.
Just read a TXTER from the Townsville Bulletin this morning:-
"Kevin 07 Almost in heaven. Kevin 08 is he really great. Kevin 09 in sharp decline. Kevin 010 Never again. G. Alice River."
Those fat little gruby states want their cake and eat it too! Perhaps they should have shared it around instead of blaming John Howard of being starved of funds. Health and Education is a state responsibilty, not Federal.
After all they get all the GST and more each year. Never hear Labor wanting to "ROLL BACK THE GST" ANYMORE. They must like the GOOSE that lays the GOLDEN EGG. Why buy a cow when you can get your milk for nothing.


----------



## Aussie2Aussie (28 November 2007)

Please, I beg you, no more Ruddie and Ruddy stuff!


----------



## skint (28 November 2007)

Julia said:


> Before everyone gets too carried away about Mr Rudd's concern for the disadvantaged of our society, I'd point out that he - like Liberal - has ruled out increasing the rate of the Single Aged Pension.  This is below the poverty line.  Many of these people have no savings so will not benefit from any tax cuts.   We should not be perpetuating middle class welfare with non-means-tested rebates in various areas while our elderly are struggling.




This is precisely what Bob Brown has been advocating, or moreover bangin' on about to anyone who'll listen. If you recall that after the tax cuts were announced in the first week of the campaign, by both the major parties, BB argued that some of that would have been better allocated to pensioners. Does this mean that The Greens have become your natural party of choice
By the way, I agree. Whilst I'm obviously delighted that the Tories were given their marching orders, I think its important to maintain objectivity and Labor policy, to date, hasn't included the pensioners.


----------



## numbercruncher (28 November 2007)

Julia said:


> Big difference actually.  If a student can have the use of a computer for 30 minutes per week then he/she "has access to a computer".  Completely different from having their own.




Sorry Julia I simply dont get your argument.

I cant find anywhere a mention of Students being given their own computer as you suggest, only all years 9 to 12 having access to a computer and a means tested rebate for such purchases of such equipment.

I think this is the campaign quote that youve somehow got confused with?



> Labor will also provide all Australian secondary schools with up to $1 million to allow every student in years 9 to 12 to have access to their own school computer.




If you think 30m a week might be on offer the world sure has gone backwards, we got more than that 20 years ago ....


----------



## Aussie2Aussie (28 November 2007)

Breaking news 

November 28, 2007 - 2:55PM

Howard Wins Bennelong!

In breaking news from the state electoral office it is being reported that former Prime Minister, John Howard has retained his seat of Bennelong.

In what can only be described as Lazarus reborn, Mr Howard has secured 69% of the 7,000 postal votes that today were counted by electoral office officials, totally reversing any lead Maxine McKew had.

More to come.


----------



## numbercruncher (28 November 2007)

Well thats pretty good news, i was starting to feel sorry for the old fella .....

Will he run for leadership now i wonder ?


----------



## AndrewM123 (28 November 2007)

Aussie2Aussie said:


> Breaking news
> 
> November 28, 2007 - 2:55PM
> 
> ...





Not according to the ABC !!
http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2007/guide/benn.htm


----------



## Aussie2Aussie (28 November 2007)

Sorry, could'nt help myself. All make believe, just wanted to give the true believers a scare.

Very impressed with numbercruncher sentiments though!


----------



## ithatheekret (28 November 2007)

NC showing a care factor  

not here mines zero , can't get past the stuff em all attitude .........


----------



## AndrewM123 (28 November 2007)

Aussie2Aussie said:


> Sorry, could'nt help myself. All make believe, just wanted to give the true believers a scare.
> 
> Very impressed with numbercruncher sentiments though!




Ahhh Humor..


----------



## skint (28 November 2007)

Aussie2Aussie said:


> Sorry, could'nt help myself. All make believe, just wanted to give the true believers a scare.
> 
> Very impressed with numbercruncher sentiments though!




You mongrel! Got me hook, line and sinker. I immediately went racing around the Sydney papers. Couldn't find anything. Went to the electoral office site. Couldn't find anything. Maybe Aussie2Aussie knows someone in the electoral office! Panic!! Refreshed ASF. Crisis averted! You may be a mongrel, but I'll have to give you your props on that one. No further investments today. It seems I'll believe anything!


----------



## ithatheekret (28 November 2007)

I thought it was pretty good .... borderline classic


----------



## robert toms (28 November 2007)

I don't know if anyone else read that article ,about what Greenspan told Howard years ago at a forum....that Australia had the largest middle class per capita in the world.
One commentator said that Howard took that advice seriously.If you could keep the middle classes happy you would continue to win elections.It worked for a Howard for quite a while...hence middle-class welfare !
In Thailand the first lap top computers for students are being delivered.They are being produced for US$100 in China...a legacy of previous PM Thaksin.If you see the hordes of young people around Thailand ,it must be quite an order.


----------



## skint (28 November 2007)

Abbott has pulled out of the race. 
"Having now done a very full canvass of my colleagues it's pretty clear that they want at least, in some senses, a break with the Howard era,'' he told reporters. (SMH). Understatement of the century. If Abbott was the last remaining politician left in Australia, I expect the entire population would immediately be granted refugee status by the UN.


----------



## ithatheekret (28 November 2007)

chit happens


----------



## numbercruncher (28 November 2007)

They should just sack Nelson, Abott and Downer and rebuild the party under Turnbull and come back wit ha fresh competitive crew in two or three elections time. Competition is good for Aussie politics but the Liberals have just been banished as a muppet pack - they need to sort it out.


----------



## SevenFX (28 November 2007)

Hope Vanstone has her return ticket booked back from ROME, for being a bad polly... both seats at her expense... bloddy raught sending her to ROME...

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21145822-12854,00.html


----------



## ithatheekret (28 November 2007)

Well yesterday , I was cut off by a glimmering silver Statesman on the Kapunda road coming into Gawler . The driver sure looked like A.V. and turned towards the Roseworthy direction ......... perhaps a jaunt to Wasleys to pick up the Kranskis .............. or to make sure next years batch is fattening up nicely .


----------



## chops_a_must (28 November 2007)

Julia said:


> Before everyone gets too carried away about Mr Rudd's concern for the disadvantaged of our society, I'd point out that he - like Liberal - has ruled out increasing the rate of the Single Aged Pension.  This is below the poverty line.  Many of these people have no savings so will not benefit from any tax cuts.   We should not be perpetuating middle class welfare with non-means-tested rebates in various areas while our elderly are struggling.




Like I said previously Julia, older Australians voted for Howard in droves. So there was no point offering them anything...


----------



## Duckman#72 (28 November 2007)

numbercruncher said:


> Sorry Julia I simply dont get your argument.
> 
> I cant find anywhere a mention of Students being given their own computer as you suggest, only all years 9 to 12 having access to a computer and a means tested rebate for such purchases of such equipment.
> 
> If you think 30m a week might be on offer the world sure has gone backwards, we got more than that 20 years ago ....




What are you saying Numbercruncher? Have a listen to yourself.

Basically what you have just said is that the cornerstone to Kev's "Education Revolution" is an extension to 20 year old policy.

If 20 years ago students had "access to their own computer" for 30 minutes a week or more. How far have we progressed? You have just highlighted my argument about weasel words. 

Both Paul Keating and John Howard could have made the same claim leading into an election over the past 20 years as Kevin did - and he would have been correct in doing so!!!

Surely you must not be serious when you say you cannot see Julia's argument. 

It is like saying every high school student in Australia will be able to read *their own copy *of Ernest Hemmingway's "Old Man and the Sea" (fantastic book by the way).......and then stocking the library with three copies. Due to weasel words you have technically done what you said - but is it in the spirit of it???!!! 

If you have no intension of giving students "their own" computer then don't say it.......but it doesn't sound nearly as impressive does it. 

Duckman


----------



## 2020hindsight (28 November 2007)

Let's hope there are no more episodes of  "Yes Minister"  in the offing 

(speaking of weasel words)

(PS Chasers is on lol - gr8 stuff)


----------



## robots (28 November 2007)

hello,

looks like the market took another belting thanks to ruddie,

more to come probably, also at least JH kept the lid on petrol prices, look at them today 1.45/l, JH stood up to the oil companies 

inflation is going to go ballistix now ruddie is at the helm

thankyou

robots


----------



## numbercruncher (28 November 2007)

Nope i cant see what either of you are saying, you are both saying he said something that he didnt say, there was no free computer for every Aussie Kid to personally own (I think thats what you guys think ?) if you guys didnt understand the policy why are you arguing to me about it ? why dont you write Mr Rudd a letter and complain that his command of English sucks if thats what you feel.

I clearly Understood that he said that years 9 to 12 will all have access to their own school computer (ie/ not sharing I guess), I understand 1m to each school to facilitate this, Obviously there is a shortage of PCs in School or this policy never would of been offered so perhaps we can blame the last Gov for that, after all Howard probably didnt know what a PC was, I seriously do not understand what you two are going on about so we may as well just drop the subject 


Maybe you guys are looking for early Labor backflips ? If you are Ill help you, looks like a backflip on the proposed Department of Homeland Security ..... But it was a crap Idea anyway .... imho


----------



## 2020hindsight (28 November 2007)

robots said:


> hello,
> 
> looks like the market took another belting thanks to ruddie,
> 
> ...




I 've worked it out!!
You're one of the Chasers aren't you robots !!


----------



## robots (28 November 2007)

hello,

another great day for melbourne, increased PTC fares, any improvements in service? no way

shows the direction of labor govs, least JH & costello give tax cuts, nothings gets cut in Melbourne

thankyou

robots


----------



## numbercruncher (28 November 2007)

Hello Robots,


Your new Boss is a Queenslander so we get all the Juice now, Just increase Melbourne prices to pay for it hehe.

Its true isnt it, youre one of the Chasers ?


PS. Tax cuts add to Inflation, Inflation causes Interest rate rises, then you complain about them too ..... what do you prefer Higher tax or Higher Interest rates ?


----------



## 2020hindsight (28 November 2007)

gee robots - 
you're getting ahead of yourself man, 
shame you missed chasers...
You'd have seen Jackie Kelly coming pretty close to an apology for blatant racism


----------



## robots (28 November 2007)

hello,

well lets just see where things end in 5 or so years, not of to good start with petrol prices hitting 1.45/l, costello would of been knocking them down, havent heard much from swann!

come to think of it, is swann still around, not an enpowering figure, look at the work costello done on keeping the banks under control with the proposed IR rises

the banks will lift more now, 

actually, i am not complaining about interest rates as they arent really a concern to anyone

thaankyou

robots


----------



## Duckman#72 (28 November 2007)

numbercruncher said:


> I clearly Understood that he said that years 9 to 12 will all have access to their own school computer (ie/ not sharing I guess),




Eureka!!!  He gets it!!!

That is the backdown Numbercruncher - the students will be *sharing*. There is no computer for EACH student.

Duckman


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## 2020hindsight (28 November 2007)

robots said:


> costello would of been knocking them down,



robots
I fully realise that you and nc are just trying to annoy julia , but try "would have" occasionally


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## 2020hindsight (28 November 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> Eureka!!!  He gets it!!!
> 
> That is the backdown Numbercruncher - the students will be *sharing*. There is no computer for EACH student.
> 
> Duckman



duck , is that sharing concurrently , or sharing staggered in time
in which case , what's the difference ? 

(PS I hear you about the weasel words - but I seriously don't think it's an important point as long as kids have computers when they need em)


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## >Apocalypto< (28 November 2007)

I voted family first so don't look at me!


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## Duckman#72 (28 November 2007)

2020hindsight said:


> duck , is that sharing concurrently , or sharing staggered in time
> in which case , what's the difference ?
> 
> (PS I hear you about the weasel words - but I seriously don't think it's an important point as long as kids have computers when they need em)




Hi 2020

I am not sure. But my point - which Numbercruncher has assisted me with - was that for the past 20 years kids have had "access" to a computer at school (shared either concurrently or staggered).

Look I think it's great that the Government are purchasing computers - don't get me wrong. But it was those kinds of weasel words that Numbercruncher and Chops would jump all over the Coalition about 6 months ago!!!    I am just getting into the hang of "being in opposition" and "keeping the bastards honest"!!

Duckman


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## numbercruncher (28 November 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> Eureka!!!  He gets it!!!
> 
> That is the backdown Numbercruncher - the students will be *sharing*. There is no computer for EACH student.
> 
> Duckman





If you feel you won this discussion and you feel better i am happy for you, I understood this policy for what it was and how it was intended, Kids will have access to their own computer when needed, no sharing, they wont need them in a Physical Education class or whilst on trips to the science Museum. When I was at school we got a few hours a week sharing a PC, I bet it hasnt changed much since then in many schools , this will remedy the situation.

1m can buy alot of Computers, most Schools wont need anywhere near that much, might be a a boon for PC retailers though!


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## skint (28 November 2007)

2020hindsight said:


> robots
> I fully realise that you and nc are just trying to annoy julia , but try "would have" occasionally




yeah, ya know like, but,n,that!


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## Julia (28 November 2007)

2020hindsight said:


> robots
> I fully realise that you and nc are just trying to annoy julia , but try "would have" occasionally




Thanks, 2020, for supporting my plea.  I don't really think any of those who constantly say "of" instead of "have" are setting out to annoy me (well I hope not!)
I think they have just been saying this probably all their lives and it's simply a habit.  They are not alone.  I noticed at least one of our esteemed political leaders during the campaign say "If only he would of" instead of "If only he would have.....".
Sigh!
And Peter Beattie throughout his interminable reign said "anythink" rather than "anything".
Double sigh!


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## roland (28 November 2007)

Hi, is there anyway I can disable seeing this thread? Everytime I click on "New Posts" I get Kevin Rudd. I am not against general discussions, but gee this political thread is overwhelming the stock forum. I've looked under the "User CP" but doesn't seem to be an option.


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## wayneL (28 November 2007)

robots said:


> actually, i am not complaining about interest rates as they arent really a concern to anyone
> 
> thaankyou
> 
> robots



Now you're really taking the p!ss... ludicrous.


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## AndrewM123 (28 November 2007)

robots said:


> hello,
> 
> another great day for melbourne, increased PTC fares, any improvements in service? no way
> 
> ...




Unbelievable.... 3 days after election, nothing done as yet ...AND still blamed for PTC rises....... Still at least he made it rain in SE Qld to ease the drought.


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## 2020hindsight (28 November 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> I am just getting into the hang of "being in opposition" and "keeping the bastards honest"!!



fair enuf too lol
or "keeping the fu**ers honest" as the slightly deaf old lady says on NewsTopia  lol (refer chops post on "aunty" thread )


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## 2020hindsight (28 November 2007)

AndrewM123 said:


> Unbelievable.... 3 days after election, nothing done as yet ...AND still blamed for PTC rises....... Still at least he made it rain in SE Qld to ease the drought.



Andrew - gr8 sentiments m8 lol
 I think Johnny is still officially in power (till next monday-ish) 

Someone might tell that to robots too - but I suspect that you're both taking the piss, so I'll just crawl back in my shell and enjoy the entertainment like everyone else .


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## numbercruncher (28 November 2007)

Yes hes a Ruddy legend for organising that rain, I heard that hes even hooked us up with a La Nina weather pattern and we can expect loads of rain this summer, lets hope there is no backflip!


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## bvbfan (28 November 2007)

robots said:


> well lets just see where things end in 5 or so years, not of to good start with petrol prices hitting 1.45/l, costello would of been knocking them down, havent heard much from swann!




Geez I wish I could jump through the PC and slap you around a bit. What sort of idiot are you?

The AUD has dropped from 93c to 87c and oil has done jack, if you had watched the ABC finance section a few weeks ago you would have heard Alan Kohler say that the petrol price was going up to $1.50.

No depths you Liberal scum will go to blatantly lie.

Glad you have to put up with Labor for 3 years at least.

Bleeding whinger!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## ithatheekret (29 November 2007)

I don't think Comrade Rudd is to blame for the fall at all , banks and ores were the drag , everything else bar a few utilities and the I.T. sector got hit .

It's shuffle time in portfolios uptown .

I even noted a small cap trend emerging across US and European bourses , maybe early signs of insto value hunting . the futures market hasn't crashed yet  so don't panic 

I think it's time to give the bloke a fair go and not the scape goat for corrections , which were already underway offshore .

Leave the backstabbing for their P.A.'s , they've earned the right


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## robots (29 November 2007)

hello,

wonder if get a statement from swannie today, thought would of been good to get on the front foot to address the economic issues

most likely let things ride

I'm with you duckman

thankyou

robots


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## AndrewM123 (29 November 2007)

AndrewM123 said:


> Stopped here now..... but my water tank is full.    Thanks Kev
> 
> Now if only he will get AUD/USD heading north again..






Thankyou Kev !!!!


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## trading_rookie (29 November 2007)

Is it fair to say if Turnbull becomes leader of the opposition, then the Libs are the new left? While Labor having a conservative fiscal leader who campaigned on 'me-tooism' the new Right? Deciding the cabinet and not the Caucus takes the cake...wonder how many of the old guard are mumbling under their breath


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## skint (29 November 2007)

trading_rookie said:


> Is it fair to say if Turnbull becomes leader of the opposition, then the Libs are the new left? While Labor having a conservative fiscal leader who campaigned on 'me-tooism' the new Right? Deciding the cabinet and not the Caucus takes the cake...wonder how many of the old guard are mumbling under their breath




Nelson won it 45 votes to 42.


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## Rafa (29 November 2007)

Good article in the Australian...
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22838144-5014047,00.html



> *Labor gives fair undertaking for social initiatives*
> 
> 
> WHAT a difference an election makes. "Howard went too far, say employers", read the headline in The Australian yesterday. It reported that the chief complaint of business groups about the Howard government's industrial relations changes was that it had removed the no-disadvantage test and left it too late to replace it with an inadequate fairness test.
> ...


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## moXJO (29 November 2007)

Julia said:


> Before everyone gets too carried away about Mr Rudd's concern for the disadvantaged of our society, I'd point out that he - like Liberal - has ruled out increasing the rate of the Single Aged Pension.  This is below the poverty line.  Many of these people have no savings so will not benefit from any tax cuts.   We should not be perpetuating middle class welfare with non-means-tested rebates in various areas while our elderly are struggling.




It was more to do with his media tarting. Rudd hams it up in the media at every opportunity, but like I said his policies are nothing groundbreaking. There’s a lot of air and I hope it’s not all sleight of hand .Hopefully enough infrastructure and services will start being fixed in the near term.


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## noco (29 November 2007)

Julia said:


> Thanks, 2020, for supporting my plea.  I don't really think any of those who constantly say "of" instead of "have" are setting out to annoy me (well I hope not!)
> I think they have just been saying this probably all their lives and it's simply a habit.  They are not alone.  I noticed at least one of our esteemed political leaders during the campaign say "If only he would of" instead of "If only he would have.....".
> Sigh!
> And Peter Beattie throughout his interminable reign said "anythink" rather than "anything".
> Double sigh!




Julia I believe it is Australian "Lingo" that gets some people saying "should of" instead of "should have". If you analyse the saying, they say "should've" which sounds like "should of" when you say it quickly. It is the lazy tongue that can possibly confuse new comers to the English Laungage.
The same as some people say "any think". If they took their time it should come out "anythingggggg". 
The good old English, it ain't what it used to be.


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## 2020hindsight (29 November 2007)

noco said:


> If you analyse the saying, ...."should've" sounds like "should of"



:topic
but you're onto something here noco   pardon the grammar lesson - just that laziness is rewarded with this example 

I read in an old-fashioned schoolbook that there is strictly a difference between "shall" and "will", and that it is 180degrees different between first person and second or third etc...

"I shall go to work now" = not particularly determined
"I will" go to work now" = determined

whereas , talking to a kid wanting to stay at home sick for instance, you get the opposite , i.e. 
"you shall go to school now" = determined
"you will go to school now" 
"they will go to school now" = not particularly determined  (according to this book anyways) 

NOW THE GOOD NEWS is that 
a) this is old hat, and 
b) the secret trick to get around it is to just say "*** 'll" - and the context will give the necessary clue on your level of determination, eg 

"I'll go to work now I guess" - 
or "you'll go to school now whether you like it of not"  etc 

PS the book went on to say that "shall" is falling into disuse, but I can tell you the average Australian Standard  says the word "shall" 15,000 times lol.
"when in Rome, you shall allow for Roman earthquakes ; when in Sydney, you shall allow for Sydney earthquakes etc"  
even (I imagine) road rules , eg  
"you shall keep three feet to the next parked car etc "

"ministers will be held accountable"  - either way, the threat is there anyway


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## numbercruncher (30 November 2007)

robots said:


> hello,
> 
> well lets just see where things end in 5 or so years, not of to good start with petrol prices hitting 1.45/l, costello would of been knocking them down, havent heard much from swann!





Still talking about Costello, that guy has thrown in the towel already !


Anyway Labor are taking some measures ....



> Appointing a petrol price commissioner to monitor big oil companies will be one of the incoming Labor government's first acts, Prime Minister-elect Kevin Rudd says.




http://au.news.yahoo.com/070326/2/12vsf.html


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