# Trading Education - Time committed vs. results



## pavilion103 (11 February 2013)

With trading, as when undertaking any new venture, there is initially a very steep learning curve. There is so much to know and as some studies have shown it takes approx 10,000 (well spent) hours to become an expert at something.

Initially there is the excitement of taking in new information and exploring a new subject. It is very stimulating and there is usually strong motivation to get stuck into it.

For me, my trading journey commenced just over two years ago. I actually took 6 months off work and hammered out a stack of hours with the intention of gaining a strong knowledge base and then returning to work and spending some time at nights working on it. 

With any venture, once the initial foundation is established, the marginal improvement is much smaller and it takes a committed person to generate the motivation to continue to be disciplined. 


My current learning mainly involves the end of day analysis of charts of either trades that I have entered or have been recommended to me by experienced proven sources.  I have a couple of books that I read over and over again (specific to VSA/Wyckoff). 


*The question I have is how often do traders on here read educational materials as opposed to simply analysing charts?* I see the value in re-reading these materials as there is so much depth. But I'm trying to discern how often. What do others on here do?

I guess I'm more curious than anything else to see others' approaches. I've got my own balance.


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## waza1960 (11 February 2013)

I have a reasonably large trading library and I read most of these books in the first few years.
    After that I did 2 Diploma courses in T/A and a lot of chart time in between I am now rereading these books   and finding that with my improved understanding of T/A and the markets I am getting a lot more out of them.
      I have also noticed that some of the content of those books read for the first time some years ago actually influenced my perspective (in a good way)


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## sinner (11 February 2013)

pavilion103 said:


> *The question I have is how often do traders on here read educational materials as opposed to simply analysing charts?* I see the value in re-reading these materials as there is so much depth. But I'm trying to discern how often. What do others on here do?
> 
> I guess I'm more curious than anything else to see others' approaches. I've got my own balance.




Every day. If you have systematic success then looking at charts is pretty f*** boring, unless you get to share them on a forum like this. 

I will usually have a research paper or two, plus several blog posts that are my education for the week, and may read and reread each one several times as I mull it over.

Here's one of my papers for this week
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=970480

Which is a topic that has been somewhat covered on these forums.


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## skc (11 February 2013)

pavilion103 said:


> *The question I have is how often do traders on here read educational materials as opposed to simply analysing charts?* I see the value in re-reading these materials as there is so much depth. But I'm trying to discern how often. What do others on here do?




Zero time spent on education materials.

I spend most of my time watching the markets and various stocks on how they move. I think the accumulation of experience is more important (for my trading style anyway).

Let me give you an example. FXL reprt in Aug 2012, got smacked down 8% during the day and recovered to close flat on results that was basically in line with expectations. Because FXL is "expensive" (high PE from valuation perspective) but also well loved. Now look at the candle last week when they reported pretty much the same kind of results. The exact same behaviour. I managed to trade it on the way down then take another small bite on the way up.

The trading books will call the candle blow off low or something rather, but the context of how the market treats that stock is what made the money. I hate to be reading when I could be doing some real learning by watching the market.


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## CanOz (11 February 2013)

skc said:


> I managed to trade it on the way down ...




Really....CFD?

CanOz


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## Gringotts Bank (11 February 2013)

skc said:


> Zero time spent on education materials.
> 
> I spend most of my time watching the markets and various stocks on how they move. I think the accumulation of experience is more important (for my trading style anyway).




I think this is an excellent approach.  

When I think of the way sports training has evolved (or devolved) over time, my main complaint is that nowadays coaches go looking for edges in the most ridiculous places.  The trick is to practice the *basics *over and over, but with a deeper awareness.  You don't get good at surfing by doing yoga, gym sessions, pilates, and push ups.  You get good at surfing by being in the water and watching and feeling the water move.  Trendoids will tell you to deconstruct your technique into minute parts and work on each of those in the gym.  

If one has a natural bent for numbers and maths, that's fine.  Such a person would get great enjoyment from reading and studying the latest research.  And some of this can be used to make profits no doubt.  But the biggest winners in the biggest markets are discretionary traders.


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## pavilion103 (11 February 2013)

I found that I read around 25-30 books at the start of my trading education but in the past 6-9 months have only read a couple. I review the Wyckoff ones.

I just find that because I've developed my trading system in a way that I want it, I don't need to be open to a whole bunch of new ideas. I might only get one or two little points (which aren't huge anyway) out of a book that doesn't make it worth reading. 

I do find that I learn a lot from the charts. It's been well worth my time.


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## skc (11 February 2013)

CanOz said:


> Really....CFD?
> 
> CanOz




No. Just plain old shorting...


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## danon (22 March 2013)

My experience were interesting for those who care to know.. 

I hold a major position in the field of IT for years long before the tech bubble. Trading is always in the back of my mind but due to my highly demanding job, I find it difficult to find time to even have a peek at it.

Then I stumble on a book "Rich Dad, Poor Dad".

After the Tech bubble with plenty of cash but don't know what to do I started wondering around different kinds of investment but with no pleasing results. And then I thought about my old "passion".. trading. So I started delving into it read tons of books, attended countless courses and conferences and while doing this to keep both ends meet, I took a cleaning job... because it is the only job I know that doesn't require my head! And for the first time, my brain is mine 100% (well I think I put in at least 1 or 2% of it for work)... since I am partial dyslexic I found it easier for me to listen to audio books and podcast about trading, psychology, etc. Some of the best trading approach I developed was when I was vacuuming the floor!

In 2007 I started trading live... and of course we all know that is the start of the economic bubble primarily the US sub prime mortgage, I still to this day remember August 2007 when S&P 500 fell down like black friday while I'm in a trading seminar.. it recovered the next month but the successive months became the start of the downfall..

During my early days of experimental trading i became sort of a rocket scientist writing my own codes heavily into technical analysis but not making money on the process.. with the help of successful traders i admire in the books, i realised that what i really want is to trade to fund the lifestyle of my choice, and not to trade as a lifestyle..

Also I realised that trading is about your own psychology and how you approach the market so spend more time perfecting your psychology.

Nowadays I only trade a single Index, that eliminate the need to find shares to trade as well as dealing with earnings, dividend days, etc.

I have an adjustable trading approach meaning I don't care if the market is going up, down, or sideways, I will make money in all those three movements. I trade for income.

I ditched all my technical analysis paralysis prediction approach and just use the old support/resistance which matched my style.

All of these requires me maximum 1 hr. everyday, 3 hrs. to two weeks length of trade time each month.

..so as you can see my trading style became so boring I struggle for a while to keep it exciting,  but I am ok now I found this forum and I can fill my time playing computer games (gosh those graphics are awesome!)..

I still do my cleaning job as for some reason I am enjoying it, I've always been in a white collar job. Also paying off all my stupid consumer debts Dave Ramsey way. I guess another year or so and I will become a full time trader.

signing off.


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