# Our Immigration standards?



## Bobby (6 February 2006)

My thoughts are those that wish to settle here should only be considered if they can  contribute to our economy, make their FIRST loyalty to Australia & learn to speak english & MIX with us!. 

Simplistic isn't it.  

Your thoughts Aussies ?
Bob.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (6 February 2006)

*Re: Our Immigration standards ?*



			
				Bobby said:
			
		

> My thoughts are those that wish to settle here should only be considered if they can  contribute to our economy, make their FIRST loyalty to Australia & learn to speak english & MIX with us!.
> 
> Simplistic isn't it.
> 
> ...




I totally agree Bobby!

Snake


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## Bobby (6 February 2006)

*Re: Our Immigration standards ?*



			
				Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> I totally agree Bobby!
> 
> Snake



 Thank you Snake.
Check your private mail soon.

Regards Bob.


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## WaySolid (6 February 2006)

Why should we demand higher standards of our immigrants than we do of our politicians?

When was the last time a politician took an English test?


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## crackaton (6 February 2006)

You don't understand that in our major cities there are groups of immigrants who do not even bother to learn to speak english. They become segregated from the rest of australian society.

If I were to go to another country and live then, say an arab country, I would have to learn their language and abide by their customs.

The same is not true here which is really sad


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## ctp6360 (6 February 2006)

The thing I hate about all of these discussions is that they focus on one group of immigrants whilst completely alienating the large, large group who do adopt our customs, society and language - indeed they embrace it.

I see such wonderful examples of other cultures mixing with ours every single day that it really disheartens me when I hear all of the entrenched racism coming from fellow Aussies.

You have to remember that a lot of the people who come here don't really WANT to leave their own country. They leave because they can no longer continue the way of life that they want for them and their children in their own country.

Can you imagine how enourmously difficult it would be to leave your friends, extended family, culture, everything you have ever known and turn up in a place where you don't speak the language, don't know the customs...and then..everyone abuses the **** out of you because of that very reason.

I absolutely admire immigrants and do not feel bitter about them living here, even the ones who can't speak english.

I know not all of them are in this situation, but who are you to judge them either way? You were born here, they CHOSE to be here, don't you think its wonderful that people have the right to choose wherever they want to live in the world?

Does it REALLY affect you that much that they can't speak english, SERIOUSLY?

And this whole US vs THEM thing, like "Your thoughts Aussies ?" as if you're only an Aussie if you were a white caucasion born here....if that's the case then I'm not an Aussie because I would hate to be associated with people who think like this. I think this attitude is disgraceful and I would like to think that the aussies I know are a little more developed in their thinking than this.


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## chicken (6 February 2006)

Bobby said:
			
		

> My thoughts are those that wish to settle here should only be considered if they can  contribute to our economy, make their FIRST loyalty to Australia & learn to speak english & MIX with us!.
> 
> Simplistic isn't it.
> 
> ...



I totaly agree I came to Australia in 1953....took up citizenship learned English and now with that I can enoy all Australians..I am mixing with them...Anyone ever seen the Film about the Italian who arrived in Sydney and worked on building sides...Jabedeh,jab blah blah..I think his name was Gino...great film with a lot of humour...I personnaly love Australia....got a relation who is a qualified civil engineer from east germany to come out to settle.....here..why not invite more Krauts to come they make great immigrants..I proved it...even got a sense of humour and love the Aussie beer...great place this


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## Fugazi (6 February 2006)

I can see both sides of the argument, being an immigrant Pom.

One of the reasons I got my family out of London was the huge rise in crime and segregation due to _illegal_ immigration. Most of these people are not refugees in genuine need of help, they are economic migrants who want to leech off the system. Many of them amass a small fortune and send it back home, and the ones that can't are exploited by the ones that can through organised crime.

As for speaking English, it's not the ones that can't that rub people up the wrong way, it's the ones that refuse to, but can speak it pretty well in the dole office.

I was put well and truly through the wringer to get my visa, it took months to put the paperwork together and cost me a small fortune and was the best thing I ever did. There is nothing wrong with Australian immigration standards in that respect, and inviting skilled contributors into any country can only be a good thing. I just hope the government sticks to its hard line on illegal immigration, because it will make a beautiful country real ugly real quick.


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## dutchie (6 February 2006)

Chicken that was a book and film called "Their a weird mob" - great read for any migrants battling with Aussie culture.

Also think that Germans, Dutch, Poms (even though they can be whingers at times), Italians, Greeks more likely to learn english and intergrate - going from my past experiences with migrants. I don't live in Sydney anymore so I can't comment on the present lot of migrants (only fromTV, radio and papers).

ctp6360 - people who don't speak English do affect me and you -

Non English person goes to Govt. Dept. - Dept. has to provide translator - that costs our tax money. 
Other services are provided to non English speaking people that cost our tax money.
Those costs are fine for people who have not had a chance to learn English yet but not for those who can't be bothered to learn.


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## Bobby (6 February 2006)

ctp6360 said:
			
		

> The thing I hate about all of these discussions is that they focus on one group of immigrants whilst completely alienating the large, large group who do adopt our customs, society and language - indeed they embrace it.
> 
> I see such wonderful examples of other cultures mixing with ours every single day that it really disheartens me when I hear all of the entrenched racism coming from fellow Aussies.
> 
> ...



Hullo  ctp6360,
You to are entitled to your  say just like me , no need to prevaricate. : 

Bob.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (6 February 2006)

Well..Sydney is the pits now. It is a terrible place to live in because of the immigrant problem. You can`t go to the beach without being stabbed or raped.

It`s not about being white or an aussie it`s about doing the right thing and respecting the customs of the majority. If you don`t then go back to your beloved ancestors and practise what they practise there - not here!

Most people are sick of the politically correct, turn a blind eye attitude that so many want to espouse. It`s going down the drain because we are sick of it. 

Look at Denmark, Holland etc. in europe. They are now taking serious action.
Good on them.

ctp you are totally wrong!


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## ctp6360 (6 February 2006)

Nice argument Snake, although I detect a little bit of exaggeration with the whole "You can`t go to the beach without being stabbed or raped" but you're entitled to your opinion.

Anyway I've had my say I'm here to discuss shares not racism.


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## visual (6 February 2006)

Snake, for once I agree with you ,well half agree.I know that I`ve being guilty of saying exactly that,go back to your country and practice what you know.
But I think that the morons who behave like well the" middle eastern appearance" boofheads,if they indeed went back to their country you know who would be blamed ,Australia,because regardless what the pc,multiculturalism elites !say about culture ***** people are people and nobody likes to feel unsafe or be disrespected so presumably our boof heads would also be boofheads in the country of their parents ,and attract the same condenmation from them.
I say this as an Italian who was considered Australian on my holiday back "home",and who up until recently was informed by an Aussie that he was brought up to hate Italians.Mind you I`ve lived most of my life in Australia,


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## It's Snake Pliskin (6 February 2006)

Visual,

I`ve never heard anyone say Italians are bad. Can you still speak Italian? If so that is good. 


Ctp racism is a fictional argument.


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## visual (6 February 2006)

Snake are you serious?
the first time I heard the expression Wog was at sydney airport,in the lounge where you wait for the interconnecting flights,I was 11 ,excited to be in a strange new country,couldnt speak english,but decided that I wanted a drink of water eventually the woman behind the bar understood me,and as I walked away I heard the word that would haunt me until now,wog.I think what happened is that i walked away without paying,water is free in Italy so even though she was talking to me i didnt understand,said thankyou,I knew how to say that,and walked away.
At school I had a teacher who instead of teaching me how to swim left me on the edge of the pool,because I was a wog.Long story.
However having said all that what makes Italians good citizens is the fact that we`ve always appreciated Australia or anywhere really thats given us the opportunity to work.And worked we have,even when knowing that we were being exploited Italians worked.So I suppose that eventually saw us being accepted.
And by the way yes I still speak Italian and also read,and write,althought on my short trip to Italy I found that my vocabulary is actually pretty narrow,because I havent kept up with the progress that the Italian language has made.My auntie kept making fun of me,because I spoke with an accent that she had never heard before lol


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## dutchie (6 February 2006)

Visual

You would enjoy the book I mentioned before ("Their a weird mob") as the story is about Nino an Italian migrant trying to come to terms with the Oz language and customs.

In those days most Australians accepted the Italians, Greeks etc if they were willing to "have a go".


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## It's Snake Pliskin (6 February 2006)

visual said:
			
		

> Snake are you serious?
> the first time I heard the expression Wog was at sydney airport,in the lounge where you wait for the interconnecting flights,I was 11 ,excited to be in a strange new country,couldnt speak english,but decided that I wanted a drink of water eventually the woman behind the bar understood me,and as I walked away I heard the word that would haunt me until now,wog.I think what happened is that i walked away without paying,water is free in Italy so even though she was talking to me i didnt understand,said thankyou,I knew how to say that,and walked away.
> At school I had a teacher who instead of teaching me how to swim left me on the edge of the pool,because I was a wog.Long story.
> However having said all that what makes Italians good citizens is the fact that we`ve always appreciated Australia or anywhere really thats given us the opportunity to work.And worked we have,even when knowing that we were being exploited Italians worked.So I suppose that eventually saw us being accepted.
> And by the way yes I still speak Italian and also read,and write,althought on my short trip to Italy I found that my vocabulary is actually pretty narrow,because I havent kept up with the progress that the Italian language has made.My auntie kept making fun of me,because I spoke with an accent that she had never heard before lol




Visual,

Thanks for reminding me of the WOG word. It is a classic slang word in Australia. It refers to not only Italians but Greeks and others as well. The way you worded your previous post I thought you ment something more sinister. The new word of abuse or denigration is being called an Aussie - I understand how you feel or felt. I`m in Japan now and I`m not Australian to them, but a gaijin which means outsider. Yes I feel prejudiced, but they don`t expect gaijin to be like them. It`s much different to Australia.

I`m glad you still speak Italian and have been back there.

Yes all Italians and Greeks and the like have worked really hard in this country and I am glad you lot are here. For those that don`t work hard and cause trouble, go back or get out!

And Ctp it`s not about racism it`s about ideology. That`s the issue of concern.

Snake


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## Happy (6 February 2006)

Funny talk, when earlier immigrants talk tough on accepting or not accepting later ones.

Let’s not forget that some of even earlier ones (who came here 30,000 to 40,000 years ago) do accept anybody new, so this is just nothing new.

Same talk, different arrival date.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (6 February 2006)

Happy said:
			
		

> Funny talk, when earlier immigrants talk tough on accepting or not accepting later ones.
> 
> Let’s not forget that some of even earlier ones (who came here 30,000 to 40,000 years ago) do accept anybody new, so this is just nothing new.
> 
> Same talk, different arrival date.




A childish argument considering the 40,000 year ago immigrants from Indonesia / Papua were immigrants themselves.


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## emma (6 February 2006)

Being an old girl I've seen this all before - yes Italians were hated  by some - use the play "The Shifting Heart" by Richard Beynon as a reference.  We had the same hysteria when the Vietnamese came in Australia - oh and I remember a place in London called "Kangaroo Valley" - care to consider why?


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## wayneL (6 February 2006)

emma said:
			
		

> Being an old girl I've seen this all before - yes Italians were hated  by some - use the play "The Shifting Heart" by Richard Beynon as a reference.  We had the same hysteria when the Vietnamese came in Australia - oh and I remember a place in London called "Kangaroo Valley" - care to consider why?




I understand we are called JAFA's over there.

(Just Another F%$#@!* Aussie)


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## Smurf1976 (6 February 2006)

One thing that I think does matter is _why_ migrants come to Australia in the first place.

I haven't spent enough time in Sydney to know what the situation is like there but considering the experience elsewhere I think that migrants, at least in the past, have made a very major contribution.

In my opinion there is a huge difference between those who come willing to work and those who don't. For example, in past decades (especially 1950's and 60's) Tasmania received plenty of migrants who came from numerous countries, many of them non-English speaking, to work for the Hydro etc. They knew full well before they even boarded the ship that they were moving to a new country and were going to be doing hard physical work once they got there. There was a job waiting but it was in the middle of nowhere working in the rain. Tasmania ended up attracting a large number (relative to the state's overall population) of migrants willing to work damn hard. Likewise numerous jobs in everything from paper mills to road construction were filled by migrants. Quite a few the state's business and other non-political leaders have been either those migrants or their Australian born descendents.

Such an experience of hard working migrants in the past is in stark contrast to those who come here looking for a better life and expecting to do nothing in return for their new home.

Right now in most if not all Australian states there are plenty of roads, dams, railways and other such projects which we would all benefit from being built. But the costs of paying for the work to be done, and in many cases actually finding sufficient workers willing to work in these generally remote areas under relatively harsh conditions, is prohibitive and consequently the engineers' plans for such things remain just that, plans.

What would be wrong with increasing the migrant intake and requiring newly arrived migrants to work for, say, 3 years (or until project completion) on such things? It would get the infrastructure built to assist Australia's future prosperity, provide a decent opportunity for migrants and their families seeking to leave whatever problems they are wanting to escape at home and ensure that at least a large portion of Australia's newly arrived migrants are decent, hard working people willing to have a go. In due course they would naturally disperse into the broader Australian community just as the Hydro workers did in Tasmania.

Obviously I don't suggest that properly trained doctors etc be sent out building roads, they're in more urgent need in hospitals, but for many this would seem a sensible approach. Come to Australia, do some hard work for the long term benefit of the country and after a period of time you are automatically an Australian citizen free to live and work as you see fit. They would receive full access to education (including compulsory English language lessons where needed), first rate health care etc from day one in return for their work. 

It also ought to ease the problem of migrants being heavily concentrated in Sydney as they would already have a new home in, mostly, other areas before having the chance to move to Sydney. Some would still go there, but it's likely that most would end up staying in the regional areas or moving to the other state capitals.


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## crackaton (6 February 2006)

Smurf1976 said:
			
		

> One thing that I think does matter is why migrants come to Australia in the first place.
> 
> I haven't spent enough time in Sydney to know what the situation is like there but considering the experience elsewhere I think that migrants, at least in the past, have made a very major contribution.
> 
> ...




I agree 100%. Most immigrants nowdays see it as free entry to an overly democratic society to do their dirty mischief. They come here to deal drugs, rort the social security, and generally cause unrest in society. 

They basicially don't give a **** about Australia or or Australian society. Send the dirt back back where they came.


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## Bloveld (6 February 2006)

crackaton said:
			
		

> I agree 100%. Most immigrants nowdays see it as free entry to an overly democratic society to do their dirty mischief. They come here to deal drugs, rort the social security, and generally cause unrest in society.
> 
> They basicially don't give a **** about Australia or or Australian society. Send the dirt back back where they came.





Were you born this ignorant or did you have to work at it?


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## Joe Blow (6 February 2006)

Okay, I'm all in favour of discussions on topics such as this as long as they remain rational and there is no hate or vilification thrown around. I think it is important that we can discuss issues that are important to us as a nation and affect our future. 

However... this sort of stuff is getting a little close to stepping over the line:



			
				crackaton said:
			
		

> I agree 100%. Most immigrants nowdays see it as free entry to an overly democratic society to do their dirty mischief. They come here to deal drugs, rort the social security, and generally cause unrest in society.
> 
> They basicially don't give a **** about Australia or or Australian society. Send the dirt back back where they came.




What I find uncomfortable is not the assertion that there are immigrants involved in illegal activity but that MOST of them are, which clearly is not true.  

So lets keep the discussion going but lets leave the generalisations out of it and keep things civilised... and please keep in mind clause 3 of the ASF Code of Conduct:



> 3. Obscene language and the use of language that is sexist, racist, harassing or threatening is strictly forbidden and will not be tolerated.




Thanks everyone.


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## TheAnalyst (6 February 2006)

Cracka speaks a bit of truth because i am half maltese and half aussie and my fathers maltese side are really racist against Aussies. The comments i had to put up with were just unbearable. Calling my mothers side a bunch of drunks and getting smart to me because my nanna was always pist to the bone...and they did not like the way nanna started drinking from early morning and how my uncle would stop by with the truck at lunch time back in the 70's and 80's and have a drink with her. And all my pops brothers sons would stop by as well and drink with their auntie myrie.

They made sure they didnt play football because my dads brother in law from malta did not like aussies so he made his kids play soccer when they want to play footy. Australia was just a place to use and abuse and burn its flag and humiliate its war dead..they hated the fact that my mums side was from a family that half the war dead on the war memorial were related and went all the way back to Gallipoli and beerasheba and the western front in France. I remember when i enlisted for the navy my dad tried to stop me but i refused. I remember when he dropped me off at the railway station and ready to go to St Kilda road and I jumped on the bus to cerberus for basic training he said dont go let the aussies do this stuff....i just said i am Aussie and so are my family.


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## Goin' For Broke (6 February 2006)

I'm a migrant myself coming from Canada over 20 years ago. I've heard aheck of alot of whinning from Ausies and Canucks over the years, and frankly everybody better get used to it. There are, at a rough guess about 3 billion people just north of this pretty country, and I think we should all be trying to get along! Some of the comments above are not constructive. Like it or not and as lame as it sounds we are going to have to share this small planet. Some people work and some are bluggers...race has little to do with it IMO.
Please seek advice of a financial adviser (probably a recent immigrant).


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## Smurf1976 (7 February 2006)

Goin' For Broke said:
			
		

> There are, at a rough guess about 3 billion people just north of this pretty country, and I think we should all be trying to get along! Some of the comments above are not constructive. Like it or not and as lame as it sounds we are going to have to share this small planet. Some people work and some are bluggers...race has little to do with it IMO.



You've hit the nail on the head there IMO.


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## TheAnalyst (7 February 2006)

Goin' For Broke said:
			
		

> I'm a migrant myself coming from Canada over 20 years ago. I've heard aheck of alot of whinning from Ausies and Canucks over the years, and frankly everybody better get used to it. There are, at a rough guess about 3 billion people just north of this pretty country, and I think we should all be trying to get along! Some of the comments above are not constructive. Like it or not and as lame as it sounds we are going to have to share this small planet. Some people work and some are bluggers...race has little to do with it IMO.
> Please seek advice of a financial adviser (probably a recent immigrant).




Nothing to be worried about they will just get nuked. Believe they will...dont for one second believe that Australia does not have a nuclear capacity.


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## Bobby (7 February 2006)

Thanks everyone for your comments,

28 of you had the guts to post & over 400 had a look.

Thats under 10% , hate ! to think how many have a fatuous outlook on this ?.  

Bob.


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## Bobby (7 February 2006)

Joe Blow said:
			
		

> Okay, I'm all in favour of discussions on topics such as this as long as they remain rational and there is no hate or vilification thrown around. I think it is important that we can discuss issues that are important to us as a nation and affect our future.
> 
> However... this sort of stuff is getting a little close to stepping over the line:
> 
> ...




Hullo Joe ,
Nice to see your running  this show , like the way you ameliorate .  

Regards Bob.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (8 February 2006)

Bobby said:
			
		

> Thanks everyone for your comments,
> 
> 28 of you had the guts to post & over 400 had a look.
> 
> ...




The political correctness crap is what disturbs me. Everyone apologises for being western or free thinking. We will apologise ourselves out of existence.


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## Bobby (8 February 2006)

Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> The political correctness crap is what disturbs me. Everyone apologises for being western or free thinking. We will apologise ourselves out of existence.




Well said Snake.
When showing the Aussie flag was recently condemmed as insightment?  :swear:  to some sort of race issue, Now I know what needs to be done ,Re: Our Immigration policy.

Bob.


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## chromatic (8 February 2006)

The majority of these arguments are non-sequitur and part of a worrying trend of xenophobia and bigotry brought to you care of absurdities such as "the war on terror" and media hysteria over events of no consequence to the majority of us. All this flag talk and west vs east, "free thinkers" is jingoism.

Every race and religion has its idiots so why not treat and judge everyone on their own merits rather than lower ourselves to name-calling? It's dissappointing that on a stock forum of all places, one has to be subjected to this kind of rubbish. 

The suggestion is that our immigration policy is a drain on the economy because the intake consists of trouble-makers that can't speak English and live on the dole. Aging population etc etc that we need people coming to live in Australia and with the skilled-migrants policy the government is running, I would suggest that the majority of this intake will not end up on the dole. Our tertiary education system gets a large chunk of revenue from overseas students coming here and paying through the nose for non-HECS places that they are only accepted in if they have passed an English proficieny test. Moreover, a quick look around a typical uni campus will also reveal that the majority of students are not the Bruce Ruxton and Australian-flag G-string-wearing types but people of diverse backgrounds.

This whole immigration topic is still-born. The real issue is maintaining mutual tolerance and respect for each others' races and cultures whatever they maybe and remembering that anyone who has an Australian citizenship has just as much right to live in this country and be called an Aussie as yourself. 

Apologies for all the schmaltz and now let's get back to talking stocks and derivatives and leave this ugliness behind us.

chromatic


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## visual (8 February 2006)

You realise that this thread is for this exact topic,right
if you want to discuss shares look up the other threads
and by the way maybe you should tell those who would and actively are robbing us of our achivements to learn to live with us.
I`m sure the Danish press and people would appreciate that,once again they are bringing the world to the edge of a cataclism why because of ignorance.In fact the bible also says what the koran says and thats about idolatry not about never having the image of the prophet in print.


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## happytrader (8 February 2006)

Hi everyone

Well I think it would be good if immigration could assess intending applicants cooking skills or willingness to improve them. The place down the road makes an excellent souvlaki and the restaurant round the corner serves a mean yum cha.

Cheers
Happytrader


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## chromatic (8 February 2006)

visual said:
			
		

> You realise that this thread is for this exact topic,right
> if you want to discuss shares look up the other threads
> and by the way maybe you should tell those who would and actively are robbing us of our achivements to learn to live with us.




Okay, I'll relay your (collective) thoughts on that to "them" whoever they are. By the way, who exactly is robbing you of what achievements and who do you speak for when you say "us"? Us Australians? Us white caucasians? Do you realise you sound like a complete bigot with that statement?



			
				visual said:
			
		

> I`m sure the Danish press and people would appreciate that,once again they are bringing the world to the edge of a cataclism why because of ignorance.



Some people found the cartoons offensive, they objected to them and others still took it too far. What is your point here? That "they" don't understand freedom of speech as practiced in the englightened west and Europe and are therefore ignorant? I can think of plenty of topics (all perfectly legally debatable in Australia) where satire and ridicule by any media outlet would result in an immediate public outcry and potential shutdown of said outlet. Freedom of expression is not a license to offend and insight racial/religious tension to the full extent permissible under the law.




			
				visual said:
			
		

> In fact the bible also says what the koran says and thats about idolatry not about never having the image of the prophet in print.




Irrelevant on both counts.


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## visual (8 February 2006)

chromatic,
one word piss christ
how many public buildings were burned down,help me here I cant remember,oh thats right none!
and when I talk about freedom ,i especially mean women,you know the right to dress as we like,and not having to take responsability for some weak minded little fellow who thinks that a womans body can be attacked if she chooses to show it.And when people of different customs come to the west they should just learn to live with us or else head back instead of expecting us to change to their ignorant ways.How many times has Christ being vandalised in the name of art or whatever yet because we enjoy freedom of speech nothing happens other than lots of paper being wasted ,via newspapers,ect...........


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## visual (8 February 2006)

having re read your post chromatic,
thanks for reverting to name calling,proved my point ,
You want me to explain what i mean by us,westerners,people who have evolved enough to be able to live with other cultures,other religions,other customs,
people who dont have to revert to violence or threaten violence if a little poopy picture they dont like gets printed in newspapers.


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## rederob (8 February 2006)

I see that the concept of terra nullius is alive and well here.
We invade a country a few hundred years ago, populate it with convicts and hey, we own the place!
And we get to make the rules.
What about these immigrants, but!
Like my mum!
Today she would be called one of the "boat people".
Back then she was a refugee from Communist Europe.
I know she is grateful for the freedoms she has enjoyed in Australia (to this day she has never returned as she was afraid she would be jailed for "escaping").
And so this thread has turned from "immigration" to "rights" and "freedoms".
And ultimately to intolerance.
When we become part of the "problem" it is a tall order to expect those we care to rail against become part of the solution.
In recent years my personal view is that as a nation we have not had the leadership that was necessary "to bring us together".  We are spending excessively on a mysterious war on terror - my 3" paper cutting scissors were confiscated at the airport, along with my partner's nail file, so we now see ourselves as a possible threat to this nation's security!


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## Smurf1976 (8 February 2006)

Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> The political correctness crap is what disturbs me. Everyone apologises for being western or free thinking. We will apologise ourselves out of existence.



Very well said Snake. Political correctness of any kind is absolute nonsense IMO. Speak the truth...


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## Julia (8 February 2006)

Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> The political correctness crap is what disturbs me. Everyone apologises for being western or free thinking. We will apologise ourselves out of existence.




Snake:

Agree absolutely.  I don't have any religious affiliations but I was just exasperated at Christmas with all the rubbish about it being offensive for Australians as Christians to, for example, place a nativity scene in a shopping centre or other public place.  Said nativity scene means little to me, but I strongly object to any thought that it should be avoided because it could possibly offend Muslims!  I'm not aware of many people in this country attempting to deny them their religious  celebrations.

There always seems to be this cringing unrealistically so-called politically correct minority who appear to have lost touch with reality.

At the same time, I have immense sympathy for anyone who has been driven from their country of origin because of brutal regimes and persecution, or even  simply hunger, as is the case in some African countries.  It must be devastating to have to leave with nothing and make your way through huge barriers to another country where you can't speak the language and have no sense of being accepted.  

Regarding racism:  I wonder if sometimes we are too quick to paste the label of racism on to particular groups.  Don't all races have their share of people who behave badly?  It shouldn't necessarily reflect on everyone else from that country or general area.

Julia


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## visual (8 February 2006)

Julia,re: racism,
hope this is not off topic,recently on the ABC or SBS am not sure there was this interesting program,where these university students undertook some tests to find similarities with people from similar backgrounds,guess what most of them were wrong ,according to their dna they were able to prove that apart from different colour skin,hair types shape of eyes ,we in fact are all the same race.So that a white kid from America perfectly matched someone from Africa not necessarily from Europe like he thought,thats where his family originated from,and the same for the rest of the group.Seeing that we all descend from Africa apparently the only differences have evolved 
over generations to suit our enviroment.I found that program very interesting,essentially when people point to diffences according to race,such as runners from particular background or such the main motivator is actually social and economic.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (9 February 2006)

chromatic said:
			
		

> The majority of these arguments are non-sequitur and part of a worrying trend of xenophobia and bigotry brought to you care of absurdities such as "the war on terror" and media hysteria over events of no consequence to the majority of us. All this flag talk and west vs east, "free thinkers" is jingoism.
> 
> Every race and religion has its idiots so why not treat and judge everyone on their own merits rather than lower ourselves to name-calling? It's dissappointing that on a stock forum of all places, one has to be subjected to this kind of rubbish.
> 
> ...




You speak the naive toung....

Have a read of the following article written by, not a white person, but an immigrant.

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=4020


----------



## wayneL (9 February 2006)

Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> You speak the naive toung....
> 
> Have a read of the following article written by, not a white person, but an immigrant.
> 
> http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=4020




That's a great article SP. No rational person could disagree with this chap.

Cheers


----------



## wayneL (9 February 2006)

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,18085714-2,00.html



> Give up on multiculturalism, say MPs
> From:
> By Sean Parnell
> 
> ...


----------



## Milk Man (9 February 2006)

Well I for one have had quite enough of this gutless tofu eating she-man babble. Who made the apologies after the race riots? Who makes the efforts to embrace the others culture in the face of terrorist acts? What would be said if a mosque was burnt down?

Immigration comes with the responsibility of intergration. If you want to be a muslim thats fine, but if you cry racism the moment someone looks sideways at you down the street then dont expect any sympathy from me.


----------



## rederob (9 February 2006)

Milk Man said:
			
		

> Well I for one have had quite enough of this gutless tofu eating she-man babble.




Now what exactly would you be talking about?

The Sydney race riots did not happen overnight - they were the culmination of work from radical elements on 2 sides of the cultural divide, well fuelled by some irresponsible media.

As a Queenslander you should remember that an idiot torched a Brisbane mosque after 911 on the pretext that....... he was just an idiot?  

The other week when Bush gave his State of the Union address he mentioned Iraq and 911 in the same sentence - carefully not saying that Iraqis were involved in 911, but implying clearly they were as he did not mention his good friends the Saudis, who comprised most of the culprits.

Politicians are complicit in engendering the present east-west (dare I say muslim-christian) sentiment that communities worldwide are now experiencing.
Find a statesman among them that is likely to introduce the type of harmonising influence that Nelson Mandela was, and we might make progress.
But while we have lapdogs to Bushes inadequate foreign policies, don't expect too much too soon.


----------



## Bobby (9 February 2006)

Milk Man said:
			
		

> Well I for one have had quite enough of this gutless tofu eating she-man babble. Who made the apologies after the race riots? Who makes the efforts to embrace the others culture in the face of terrorist acts? What would be said if a mosque was burnt down?
> 
> Immigration comes with the responsibility of intergration. If you want to be a muslim thats fine, but if you cry racism the moment someone looks sideways at you down the street then dont expect any sympathy from me.




I liked what you said !.
Intergration is the key to all of this , when you go to someones home you behave yourself within their rules, if you don't like it you can go , or you may be told to go.
Australia is home to Australians & the same rules should apply.

As for multiculturalism well it just creats division, who wants female circumcision , **** fighting, wife bashing & other delights here ?, some cultures do as they see nothing wrong with them.

As for whats good in other cultures- (bring your best & leave the rest ).

Bob.


----------



## bullmarket (9 February 2006)

It looks to me that any non-Aboriginal people in here arguing against immigration, multiculturism etc etc are either confused, hypocritical or both.

The indisputable fact is that the only true Australian is an Aborigine. Everyone else either has ancestors that came out with the First Fleet in 1788 or sometime since then or they came here by their own means some time after 1788.

So those of non-Aboriginal descent arguing against immigration, multiculturism etc why not show some guts, practise what you preach and leave the country and give this land back to the original owners - the aborigine.

I think that those remaining then have to try to get along as best as possible, and that's obviously easier said than done nowadays, and make allowances for other cultures, beliefs atc.

I just wonder how those in here who object to other cultures and ways of life would react if the aborigine's all of a sudden tried to impose on them their cultures, beliefs and ways of life. You can't have it both ways...either practise what you preach or you're just making a total fool out of yourselves..

cheers

bullmarket


----------



## Happy (9 February 2006)

According to what I’ve heard, Aboriginals came here too, between 40,000 to 30,000 years ago.

So we are all one way ticket tourists and their kids, with everybody having different arrival date.


----------



## visual (9 February 2006)

Bullmarket,I agree with you about the aboriginals,however as going back ,where,europe exported its people because especally after the war couldnt feed them or house them Australia ,and many other countries around the world needed cheap labor and voila,those countries now regard people who have lived away as belonging to that particular country,
In my opinion what people are complaining about its the politicition of multiculturalism,for example where i live after sep.11 became inundated with australian speaking women dressed head to toe,where the hell where these devout muslims before than,they were among us but you didnt know because religion should be your own business.Now all of a sudden they are trying to convince the rest of the world that being ignorant and backwards is part of their religion and culture.B**********GO to any muslim country and you find a mixture of people in fact people die on a daily basis for the right to be free and not having to cover their bodies from head to toe.Seeing that after a lot of hardships everyone manages to live togheter why is it only muslims who cant achieve that.How come they seem to cause problems everywhere ,china,india,phillipines,ect..


----------



## rederob (9 February 2006)

It is an indictment of our education system that so many people that call themselves "Australian" have no idea of what migrants coming to Australia commit themselves to: And it certainly is not "integration".  Most migrants actually want to become Australian citizens, especially when they understand it does not mean forsaking their culture and heritage.

Australian citizenship represents formal membership of the community of the Commonwealth of Australia and Australian citizenship is a common bond involving reciprocal rights and obligations uniting all Australians while respecting their diversity, and people granted Australian citizenship enjoy these rights, and undertake to accept these obligations by pledging loyalty to Australia and its people, and by sharing their democratic beliefs and by respecting their rights and liberties, and by upholding and obeying the laws of Australia.

Milk Man, Bobby and others would learn a great deal from attending a citizenship ceremony, celebrating Chinese New Year with a Chinese family, or participating in the myriad of other “ethnic” cultural events that occur across Australia throughout the year.

Value judgements tend to diminish this discussion, particularly with unfounded assertions about such things as “wife bashing and other delights”, whatever they may be.  There are many nations that would never contemplate legalising prostitution, gambling and alcohol, which it could be said we take great delight from.


----------



## rederob (9 February 2006)

Visual
I will pray for you.
Please advise which god.
Alternatively, I am well connected with the Devil.


----------



## bullmarket (9 February 2006)

Hi happy 



			
				Happy said:
			
		

> According to what I’ve heard, Aboriginals came here too, between 40,000 to 30,000 years ago.
> 
> So we are all one way ticket tourists and their kids, with everybody having different arrival date.




no problem...I'm not trying to start a fight....as I doubt this thread is going to resolve the racial/political/cultural/religious divides in our world atm 

I was just putting my   into the ring.

But using you're info above, then if nothing else it reifnorces my view that we need to make immigration, multiculturism etc to work somehow if we are going to grow as a nation, and hopefully in at least a compromised peace and harmony, because no group can then justifiably claim to own this land and so try to impose their ways of life/beliefs etc on others without consideration for theirs.

btw...if the Aborigine's weren't the original inhabitants then maybe we need to go back all the way to Adam and Eve   

cheers..


----------



## visual (9 February 2006)

reerob,
true story,went for a walk,as we got closer to the town centre,we could see fireworks,hear loud music,ect so we went to invistigate,as we got closer lots of people all asians were obviosly making their way home.I looked for a young person that i could communicate with and asked whats this all about,she informed me it was chinese new year,i said isnt that too early,oh apparently this was just a pre party,ok,howcome it wasnt advertised in the local paper,she informed me that it was only for asians ,being chinese new year,i replied that i would`ve like to know because it looked like fun,lots of food,rides,ect.
So you see regardless of what citizenship actually means you have to want to be part of the country you now belong to.And by the way when does citizeship give you the right to change the country to suit yourseld,women only hours for our pools,women only gyms,how long before thay want to introduce sharia law,its happening in Canada,they are trying to!


----------



## Happy (9 February 2006)

It doesn’t matter who lives here according to our policy.

What has to be addressed is belief that somebody’s religion is the only one, one can accept and not tolerate any other.

From what I heard Australian residents follow around 140 different religions, so mutual understanding and tolerance is a must.


----------



## bullmarket (9 February 2006)

Hi Visual

I'm not convinced that the vast majority of Muslims in Australia are trying to raise a higher profile for themselves and their beliefs.

From what I've seen, very much of the attention given to Muslims in the media generally has been to give them an opportunity to condemn the violence acted out by a very small bitter and brain-washed extremist minority and so disassociate themselves from them.  I believe that the very overwhelming majority of Muslims are peaceful people and what is highlighted in the media are the extremist actions of a small minority, which unfortunately can do a huge amount of harm 

cheers

bullmarket


----------



## bullmarket (9 February 2006)

Anyway, I think we're just going round in circles now and since this thread is not going to resolve the racial/religious/political/cultural divides in our world atm I think I'll leave you guys to it for this thread....I said my   worth  earlier 

cheers


----------



## visual (9 February 2006)

rederob,
when i need you to pray for me ,i`ll let you know,and by the way thats why you are familiar seen you praying with the devil.


----------



## happytrader (9 February 2006)

What a pity most peple are loaded up with baggage. It really is too bad for those living in some past time or place in their minds because they really are missing the best Australia and the vast majority of its diverse people have to offer. Keep that up and they'll have even more to be p***ed about as those living in the present do all the receiving and prosper. If they wake up in time they might be lucky and get the leftovers.

Cheers
Happytrader


----------



## Bobby (9 February 2006)

rederob said:
			
		

> Visual
> I will pray for you.
> Please advise which god.
> Alternatively, I am well connected with the Devil.




Geee that was a bit rough !.
Now that we know you & the Great Beast 666 of Revelation are mates, can you call up the Giant demon Beelzebub with 49 attendant demons to fix a few things. :badsmile: 

Bob.


----------



## rederob (9 February 2006)

visual said:
			
		

> rederob,
> when i need you to pray for me ,i`ll let you know,and by the way thats why you are familiar seen you praying with the devil.




Visual
I am the lucky person who can choose to pray to and for whom I wish.
I must say I am in a quandary though, not being too sure to put in a good word for you when I next speak with the Devil, or a bad word!  Pray tell.

Bullmarket
I agree that the circle turns fully.
It does seem, however, that many want others to be like us.
I certainly prefer them to be who they are, but also be like everyone else in accepting the laws and liberties we enjoy.
A modicum of tolerance and understanding plus a lot of respect can go a long way.


----------



## rederob (9 February 2006)

Bob
No worries.
Do I send you the bill?


----------



## visual (9 February 2006)

rederob,lucky but obviously not tolerant,who needs to revert to type because he is too ignorant uneducated and uniformed to be able to form a coherent argument.


----------



## rederob (9 February 2006)

visual said:
			
		

> rederob,lucky but obviously not tolerant,who needs to revert to type because he is too ignorant uneducated and uniformed to be able to form a coherent argument.



visual
I give in.
You will have to tell me the answer to that one.
My intellect is only in the high single digits.

But I do know you, and by my reply, we, have strayed from the topic.

I have the advantage of being once in the front line of fighting to inform both migrant communities and the communities they dwelt in about societal differences and how to overcome or respect them.  
Far from being too lax, I believe our immigration standards require too much from prospective emigrants.  I have found, and continue to find, that the most willing and accepting "new Australians" are those that come from more deprived backgrounds.  I have the honour each year of placing a number of these people into jobs.


----------



## wayneL (9 February 2006)

rederob said:
			
		

> I certainly prefer them to be who they are, but also be like everyone else in accepting the laws and liberties we enjoy.
> A modicum of tolerance and understanding plus a lot of respect can go a long way.




Yes indeed. I support that 100%

The only thing I say is whilst we are being tolerant and understanding, us whitefellas need to stop apologising for ourselves and as Happytrader says, live in the moment.

If we must have multiculturalism, we must preserve our own european/anglo saxon culture as well. (well, apart from english "cuisine" {to apply the tem loosely}  ) I agree with HT on making sure they can cook.


----------



## Bobby (9 February 2006)

rederob said:
			
		

> Bob
> No worries.
> Do I send you the bill?





ha Ha Ha"
Thanks'
 I'll cop that but you keep the beast away from me !. : 

 Bob.


----------



## Milk Man (9 February 2006)

wayneL said:
			
		

> Yes indeed. I support that 100%
> 
> The only thing I say is whilst we are being tolerant and understanding, us whitefellas need to stop apologising for ourselves and as Happytrader says, live in the moment.
> 
> If we must have multiculturalism, we must preserve our own european/anglo saxon culture as well. (well, apart from english "cuisine" {to apply the tem loosely}  ) I agree with HT on making sure they can cook.




This is my point exactly. Multi-culturalism is a two way street after all. Tolerance and understanding are the things lacking in some migrants who are either ignorant to, or unaccepting of australian culture. 

In my opinion it shows a great deal of weakness to cave to the every demand of every minority group. In the end life is about the best solution for the greater good, and if someone has to cop the short end of the stick then so be it.


----------



## rederob (9 February 2006)

Milk Man said:
			
		

> This is my point exactly. Multi-culturalism is a two way street after all. Tolerance and understanding are the things lacking in some migrants who are either ignorant to, or unaccepting of australian culture.



I can certainly see we have a problem.
I guess it depends on one's point of view as to where it lies.


----------



## Bobby (9 February 2006)

rederob said:
			
		

> I can certainly see we have a problem.
> I guess it depends on one's point of view as to where it lies.




Hullo Rederob,
I think you mean well & your still young, would you care to answer this question please?.
An ex colleague recently spoke that he could not find an atheist in the areas he visited in the middle east.
But he did find out why ! & it made an indelible mark on his mind.

Your question : Why no Atheists ?  

Bob.


----------



## rederob (10 February 2006)

Bob
You are off topic.
I suspect you misjudge my age although if you are in your 7th decade you will be a wee bit older than me.
In any case you know I cannot answer your question on pain of death.


----------



## Bobby (10 February 2006)

rederob said:
			
		

> Bob
> You are off topic.
> I suspect you misjudge my age although if you are in your 7th decade you will be a wee bit older than me.
> In any case you know I cannot answer your question on pain of death.




Gee did I misjudge your age,  the way you phase your words ??.  

As for the Question - have a stab at it ( many are watching ) don't worry about your  pain of death Mate!
in this case.

Bob.


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (10 February 2006)

bullmarket said:
			
		

> It looks to me that any non-Aboriginal people in here arguing against immigration, multiculturism etc etc are either confused, hypocritical or both.
> 
> The indisputable fact is that the only true Australian is an Aborigine. Everyone else either has ancestors that came out with the First Fleet in 1788 or sometime since then or they came here by their own means some time after 1788.
> 
> ...




You are wrong on this one Bullmarket!

Don`t be so simplistic when assessing one`s views on this topic. It`s old and tired.


----------



## rederob (10 February 2006)

Bob, my answer was a dead give away.
I must have erred.
Sharia law carries no truck with non-believers - the death penalty is it?


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (10 February 2006)

rederob said:
			
		

> Bob, my answer was a dead give away.
> I must have erred.
> Sharia law carries no truck with non-believers - the death penalty is it?




Primitive and barbaric. All in the name of......


----------



## bullmarket (10 February 2006)

hi Snake



			
				Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> You are wrong on this one Bullmarket!
> 
> Don`t be so simplistic when assessing one`s views on this topic. It`s old and tired.




No problem....and yet there is no verifiable information in your post that shows anything I said is wrong.  

If you want me to take you seriously then please come up with some verifiable info that shows how anything I said is wrong. 

If you want to disagree with me that's fine...we're all entitled to our own views, so lets just agree to disagree and move on.

OOOOPPSS...!!! just noticed the time in the corner of my screen.....2:13....cricket's started   

see you in the soup.

cheers

bullmarket


----------



## Bobby (10 February 2006)

rederob said:
			
		

> Bob, my answer was a dead give away.
> I must have erred.
> Sharia law carries no truck with non-believers - the death penalty is it?




Yep you got it first time  (I missed it er").  
Not a popular tourist destination for freethinkers .

Bob


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (11 February 2006)

bullmarket said:
			
		

> hi Snake
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Ok, here I go.


> It looks to me that any non-Aboriginal people in here arguing against immigration, multiculturism etc etc are either confused, hypocritical or both.




Wrong - I am not confused.

and I`ll leave it there only to say I am in Japan so wish to challenge my lack of guts...   

Why doesn`t the quote  quote everything I highlight? Frustrating JOE.


----------



## bullmarket (11 February 2006)

Hi Snake 

no problem....but you're now wasting my time....you obviously disagree with my post - that's fine, I don't have a problem with that...so let's agree to disagree and move on.

But I don't accept I am wrong based solely on you just saying so and then not providing any *verifiable * information to back up your view.

I don't know if you are confused or not, but you sound like you are to me, and I don't know if you really are in Japan or not.  You could be posting from Uranus for all I know 

But at the end of the day if you don't provide any verifiable info to support your views I can't see how what you think of my posts or where you really are or are not can possibly be of any interest let alone any consequence to me at all.

As I said in my previous post, feel free to disagree with me if you like as you and everyone else is 100% entitled to do if they wish, but if you want me to take anything you say or claim about me being wrong in any way seriously then you'll have to provide verifiable info to prove it....it's as simple as that...otherwise you're just wasting my time.

cheers

bullmarket


----------



## crackaton (11 February 2006)

The simple solution to the problem is to stop immigration for a generation.

It has gotten way out of hand .

Every is whinging about an ageing population.. what happens when all these immigrants bring their elderly here for care?

No wonder the health care system is in ruin.

A sudden influx of different people from different culture all at the one time is a recipe for disaster.

If it continues this country will become a horrible place to live in the future.

I am not racist, it is just logic.


----------



## David123 (11 February 2006)

LOL Bullmarket,(qball) ur a funni dude  cheers


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (11 February 2006)

bullmarket said:
			
		

> Hi Snake
> 
> no problem....but you're now wasting my time....you obviously disagree with my post - that's fine, I don't have a problem with that...so let's agree to disagree and move on.
> 
> ...




I don`t have a problem with you. I disagree, you disagree and if you care to read, I validated why you were wrong. I don`t have to pay tribute to your whole post. Regardless of where I am I don`t have to validate it to you, but would to some better posters here who I have honest respect for and who know what they are on about regarding shares and like. You`ve been here five seconds and seem quite at home on your band wagon - enjoy it popstar!  

Don`t respond in vain, just continue with your disagreement of everyones` posts regarding whatever...  

Have a nice day and see you in the soup as you like to say


----------



## crackaton (11 February 2006)

bullmarket has verbal diarhorrea.

has said nothing of consequence in the previous passage.


----------



## Joe Blow (11 February 2006)

Come on guys, lets not make this personal. I know this is an emotive topic but I would appreciate it if everyone would play the ball, not the man.

If you are going to agree to disagree that's fine, but please do so and then walk away. I don't want this thread to descend into mudslinging and I will delete any posts that I perceive to be just that.


----------



## bullmarket (11 February 2006)

Hi snake



			
				Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> I don`t have a problem with you. I disagree, you disagree and if you care to read, I validated why you were wrong.




no problem....but you haven't validated/verified where you think I am wrong at all as I asked you to....but no matter.

as I said earlier let's just agree to disagree on this one and I'll just continue to call things as I see them and give my reasons why wherever I see fit....I can't be any fairer than that.

good luck in your endeavours.

bullmarket 

*Hi David123*

re your post:



> LOL Bullmarket,(qball) ur a funni dude  cheers




To eliminate any confusion for anyone I have posted here on this site and over at Commsec that I post here and at another site (Joe has asked me not to mention) as bullmarket.  It is public knowledge as far as I am concerned 



> qball
> 16/12/2005 10:51:19
> Stock Analysis   for anyone interested but wasn't here before 10am....I see KA's site is back up now..not sure what is going on there...after I posted there earlier this week I was leaving their site and going to www.stockmeetingplace.com it shut down for a while. I won't be going back to KA's site...I'm much happier at smp and will continue to post there as bullmarket.....ps..but another useful chat forum I've found is www.aussiestockforums.com






> qball
> 14/12/2005 16:52:45
> Stock Analysis   maxie....I think I'm going through a mid life crisis or something because after several years in here using qball, I decided to have a facelift and use the name bullmarket over there.....mid life crisis me thinks...oh dear...




This has been good practice using quotes


----------



## Smurf1976 (11 February 2006)

crackaton said:
			
		

> The simple solution to the problem is to stop immigration for a generation.
> 
> It has gotten way out of hand .
> 
> ...



The problem I see with that is one of numbers. The world population continues to increase at an alarming rate. Not only are absolute numbers increasing, but so too the rate of increase has risen dramatically over the past century. So there's lots of people around and plety more being born. 

But not in Australia. Australia along with many other developed countries does not have a sufficient birth rate to sustain its own population. And that birth rate continues to fall for various reasons (anecdotally the housing boom being one of them since it's no longer possible for many couples to afford both a house _and_ kids). This trend shows no sign of reversing and, given the worldwide situation, there is no pressing need for it to do so. There's plenty of people, just not here. 

And so the logical means of maintaining Australia's population is ongoing immigration. We need them more than they need us and our economy will suffer greatly if the population enters a serious decline, which it would without immigration.

We have already seen in Australia an unplanned experiment with population decline (Tasmania late 1990's). It came to the point of ordinary blue collar workers sitting literally alongside ex-premiers and current politicians, business leaders and even students and the unemployed at public meetings discussing the economy and what to do about the situation. I think that says enough about what happens economically when the population falls. Western economic systems simply aren't set up to cope with decline. It's was bad enough in one state whilst the national economy was booming, just contemplate what would happen if the decline were national.

So I think we ought to continue with immigration unless we can devise some alternative economic system which functions adequately with permanently negative GDP "growth" (that is, permanent recession) and the reality that increasing numbers of empty houses with no prospect of filling them would likely induce a house price crash (simple supply and demand). A complete redesign of the economic system which is presently based upon the notion of continuous growth (I acknowledge that the merits of this are highly questionable).

That said, the immigrants Australia _needs_ are the young and economically productive. That's not to say that we shouldn't accept others on humanitarian or other grounds, but the ones we actually need are those willing and able to work.


----------



## Bobby (12 February 2006)

Smurf1976 said:
			
		

> The problem I see with that is one of numbers. The world population continues to increase at an alarming rate. Not only are absolute numbers increasing, but so too the rate of increase has risen dramatically over the past century. So there's lots of people around and plety more being born.
> 
> But not in Australia. Australia along with many other developed countries does not have a sufficient birth rate to sustain its own population. And that birth rate continues to fall for various reasons (anecdotally the housing boom being one of them since it's no longer possible for many couples to afford both a house _and_ kids). This trend shows no sign of reversing and, given the worldwide situation, there is no pressing need for it to do so. There's plenty of people, just not here.
> 
> ...




Great post ,
I will now place myself in a voluntary position to help breed more Aussies.
I'm A big fit old  bloke who can fix up this problem.  
Although I wont be avaliable every night .
 I't would be my pleasure to help out !.  

Bob


----------



## wayneL (12 February 2006)

Bobby said:
			
		

> Great post ,
> I will now place myself in a voluntary position to help breed more Aussies.
> I'm A big fit old  bloke who can fix up this problem.
> Although I wont be avaliable every night .
> ...




LOL I suspect a few of us would be willing to pitch in.


----------



## anon (19 February 2006)

Snake said -
"I`m in Japan now and I`m not Australian to them, but a gaijin which means outsider. Yes I feel prejudiced, but they don`t expect gaijin to be like them. It`s much different to Australia".

Snake,
"Gaijin" has other meanings as well, one being a Monster - like the ones you see on tv. And I copped Gaijin just the once in over 18 months' come and go stays in Japan. Our friend Joe (Junichi) invited us to his home to have some New Year celebrations. As we neared Joe's house his neighbour came out with his three year old son. When the child saw me his eyes opened wide with amazement and out aloud he shouted G-A-I-J-I-N.  I don't think that this child would have ever seen a foreigner as there weren't that many of them in Yokohama. I think he took me for a monster. I hope I didn't spoil his impression of what monsters are by doubling up with spontaneous laughter.

I remember that incident with fondness.

This is my first effort posting on this forum. I'll be back if it works.

anon


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (19 February 2006)

anon said:
			
		

> Snake said -
> "I`m in Japan now and I`m not Australian to them, but a gaijin which means outsider. Yes I feel prejudiced, but they don`t expect gaijin to be like them. It`s much different to Australia".
> 
> Snake,
> ...




Anon,

It means foreigner.

I have lived in Japan for over 2 and half years now. My wife is Japanese and I lived with her family for over 1 year. I hear Gaijin form her brother all the time, as I do from other poeple in public on a daily basis. It is not said directly to me but I always hear people referring to me when they see me in public. I must say the Japanese are really backward when it comes to immigration issues.

No doubt you would have experienced the fake pleasantries when you met people... "Oh your Japanese is good"  or "You are good with chopsticks"  If I said "You are good with chopsticks" to them they would think it`s strange for me to say that. 

Other than that they are good people and it`s not a bad place to live in.


----------



## Bobby (20 February 2006)

Greeting Snake,

Whats the immigration policy in Japan, bet they know whos who  !  

Bob.


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (20 February 2006)

Bobby said:
			
		

> Greeting Snake,
> 
> Whats the immigration policy in Japan, bet they know whos who  !
> 
> Bob.




Bobby,

How goes it man?

Yes in Japan they recognise the risk and determine the probabilities of a good or reckless immigrant. They respect their culture and values and don`t want trash disturbing the balance of peace and capitalism.

I would like to see this in Australia, but I think the PC lobby has infected the upper echelons of society and irrepairable damage has been done.

Soldier on brother.  

Snake


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## Bobby (20 February 2006)

Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> Bobby,
> 
> How goes it man?
> 
> ...




Yep Snake  ,
We continue to let crap in , If any goody too shoes wants to Know who is the crap ? .  
Well thats easy : Its the ratio per 100.000 of who are in prison, check out the ethnic winners try=  (freedom of imformation ).

Bob.


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## anon (21 February 2006)

Bobby,
Following data is extracted from an article "Aborigines can beat the statistics" by George Megalogenis in "The Weekend Australian" Inquirer section, about a month back -

"...Now let's tackle another data set, this one dealing with the number of immigrants in jail. By the way of background, 1.66  in every 1,000 Australian-born adults were prisoners in 2004, a small rise on 1.59 recorded in 2001. What do you think happened to the Lebanese-born in that period? Their incarceration rate rose from 1.88 to 2.25 in every 1,000.

"...Bear in mind that there are five immigrant groups well above them on the ladder: Tongans (5.32), Romanians (4.67), Samoans (4.45), Vietnamese (3.96) and Laotians (3.28). Indigenous Australians were 15.6 per 1,000 adults in 2005."

I think that the Lebanese youth have been massively failed by their parents and by their religious leaders, very much to the young peoples' disadvantage, and also to our nation. It seems that things are beginning to move in this area, e.g. The Sixty Minutes program on 19/2/06 and John Howard's blunt statements about jihadism and poor treatment of women by sections of some Muslim communities.

All being well I will be raising an issue about non muslim immigration which could turn out to be even worse than what we perceive to be happening with the Lebanese.

anon


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## mista200 (24 February 2006)

To put it simply i cant think of anyone who really wants immigrants here for any reason other than the slight economic benifit a skilled migrant might bring!


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## mista200 (24 February 2006)

Maybe if we didnt have such a low birth rate then the need for migrants would be even less.


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## crackaton (24 February 2006)

Immigration in this country is now a joke. Any dumb wit can come in, set up a cult or bring their religion to impose their ideology etc.

The educational standards of most immigrants is below standard and will ensure they will be isolated. In time this will lead to aggression as these groups lash out. 

The white Australia policy, shudder to say, had merits and should have been kept in place. Unfortunately it is too late and this country will become fragmented and alien as the older generation and their good values fade, and our intellectuals move elsewhere. 

I guess there is no such thing as a model society anymore.


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## crackaton (24 February 2006)

Smurf1976 said:
			
		

> The problem I see with that is one of numbers. The world population continues to increase at an alarming rate. Not only are absolute numbers increasing, but so too the rate of increase has risen dramatically over the past century. So there's lots of people around and plety more being born.
> 
> But not in Australia. Australia along with many other developed countries does not have a sufficient birth rate to sustain its own population. And that birth rate continues to fall for various reasons (anecdotally the housing boom being one of them since it's no longer possible for many couples to afford both a house _and_ kids). This trend shows no sign of reversing and, given the worldwide situation, there is no pressing need for it to do so. There's plenty of people, just not here.
> 
> ...




Um. I think your argument is seriously flawed. This country has a huge population. Any immigrants here already will more than make up the slack in new population being bred, they basicially bredd like rabbits.  Why bring more in?

There now exists the situation where we have an increasing birth rate, and more immigrants on top of that. Plus people are living longer.

There is only so many people who can live on this continent with out radically changing the face of it.

When that happens Australia will just be another concrete jungle, a real **** hole to live in.

I personally would not like my children to grow up in that sort of cesspit, but perhaps you have different values.

Enough is enough. If third world countries can not manage their own problems what hope have individuals coming form these culture have in  improving or adding to ours? Answer: nothing.


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## crackaton (24 February 2006)

Point in fact, and I am not being racist. An overseas trained doctor is bought over here to work in our public health system. The understanding of English is limited, their qualifications are not recognised here. We then spend time and money re-training them!! Why? 

There are plenty of Australians born in this country who would give their eye teeth for an opportunity like this and would probably perform the task better.

A very sad inidication of how weak those in power really are.


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## mista200 (24 February 2006)

Seeing as most share investors are capitalists, which by default means that they care more about themselves than others. Ie making money at the expense of others.... surely if we were to think about it Australia would be a much better place without any more immigrants.. if only the government could grow some balls and listen to the people for once!


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## crackaton (24 February 2006)

Capitalism is not really the issue here. All new immigrants get free money from the governement, money that is effectively existing Australians. How they spend it is a disgrace. Would you like to see your hard earnt quids spent on a potential drug dealer, terrorist or some other undesirable? I certainly would not.

The governement is weak as piss in this country. What we need, dare i say, is a recession to shake up the fat slobs that run this place.


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## wayneL (24 February 2006)

mista200 said:
			
		

> Seeing as most share investors are capitalists, which by default means that they care more about themselves than others. Ie making money at the expense of others....




Whoa there!!

We are all capitalists in the the strict sense of the word, even if we think we are socialists, by virtue of our super.

If you really mean right wing fanatics ah la dubya and his gang of fascist thugs (and his side kick Johnny) by the term "capitalist", then you are wrong. Whilst we traders tend our own flock, it does not mean we do not care for others. A simple Socratic test will dispell that quicksmart. 

There will of course me a broad range of altruistic tendencies amongst traders, from 0% right throught 100%. 

And where do you get this _"making money at the expense of others"_ from. I can destroy that arguement effectively if it is not immediately obvious.


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## rederob (24 February 2006)

mista200 said:
			
		

> .. if only the government could grow some balls and listen to the people for once!



I heard the government once planted some "balls" seeds, but the ears never ripened: Something about the wheat bored, or was it Turnbull's water works problem.


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## noirua (12 October 2006)

The great immigration debate:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhEl6HdfqWM


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## Happy (1 November 2006)

> From ABC, November 1, 2006
> 
> Tanzanian granted temporary visa after 4 suicide attempts
> 
> ...





Depending on how one looks at issues, there are two opposing comments that can be made.
One that we were somewhat forced to give temporary visa
Opposing one, we allow person in who will not hesitate to use harm as means of achieving outcomes.

Underlying issue is that, news will go out that if failed immigrant self-harms as many times, as necessary will be issued with visa.

Very difficult issue, but being soft we will see more of this immigration technique in the future.
We’ve had some lips sown, hunger strikes, now suicide attempts, what next and it all plays on our emotions and our soft side.

Probably some will disagree.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (1 November 2006)

Just look at the standards of other countries and ask yourself why are my dollars being spent on liars and criminals to come here and get welfare. If you go to China you won't get welfare or a sympathetic ear. If you are lucky you might get thrown into a sweat shop.......


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## Happy (1 November 2006)

If self-harm can give desired outcomes and this form of persuasion becomes –fashionable-, we might see more of it.

To gain employment, to get loan, to rent, to get childcare place, to get to uni, not have to pay HECS , …

The list can be endless; all we need is idea to catch up.


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## Julia (1 November 2006)

Happy said:
			
		

> If self-harm can give desired outcomes and this form of persuasion becomes –fashionable-, we might see more of it.
> 
> To gain employment, to get loan, to rent, to get childcare place, to get to uni, not have to pay HECS , …
> 
> The list can be endless; all we need is idea to catch up.



Happy:

Good question.  If there is diagnosed mental illness, we have a duty of care.

But if it's pure manipulation, the person simply has to be told he is responsible for his actions and such manipulative acts will not entitle him to special consideration.

But, then, nothing is that easy.  In the end you have to consider lack of psychiatric assessment services in the detention centres and a heap of other factors.  

Julia


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## Bobby (5 November 2006)

It's Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> Just look at the standards of other countries and ask yourself why are my dollars being spent on liars and criminals to come here and get welfare. .......




Yes Snake--- The number of welfare disability pensions taken out by a certain cultural group is staggering !   

Bob.


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## Royce (5 November 2006)

Live and let live ....we are all Australians regardless of our skin colour, religion and language etc

I married  a beautiful  Sri Lankan girl and couldn't be happier.


Bobby what  was the real reason behind your post.... to stir up the racists among us I suspect.

multiculturalism is here to stay, get used to it.

Royce


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## 2020hindsight (5 November 2006)

Royce said:
			
		

> Live and let live ....we are all Australians regardless of our skin colour, religion and language etc, I married  a beautiful  Sri Lankan girl and couldn't be happier.  Bobby what  was the real reason behind your post.... to stir up the racists among us I suspect.  multiculturalism is here to stay, get used to it.  Royce




Royce    If I can add to what I think both Julia and Bobby are sayin  ...squeeky doors get oiled - people who keep pushing their luck with the welfare system get the benefits - and polite people like you and your wife for instance - and most of us - just dont even know its happening 

But of course there's also the question of the detention camps  - my daughter did a major school arts project "we are unable to smile", "we are (treated) like animals" etc you get the ghist.   Surely we could improve our efforts there , - like 100 fold?

PS It is essential that we are "fair but firm" about out entry standards.  And against queue jumping. - essential that the people smugglers are taken out of business imho. - as well as vigilance against bludging on the welfare system.  Personally I think the "Pacific solution" is a pretty pragmatic and sensible option. (even if my dorta disagrees vehemently )


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## Bobby (7 November 2006)

2020hindsight said:
			
		

> Royce    If I can add to what I think both Julia and Bobby are sayin  ...squeeky doors get oiled - people who keep pushing their luck with the welfare system get the benefits - and polite people like you and your wife for instance - and most of us - just dont even know its happening



Well 2020 your on track, and as for you royce, read your last post again regarding multiculturism , you married a Sri lankan & your happy, good for you.  

Bob.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (7 November 2006)

Royce said:
			
		

> Live and let live ....we are all Australians regardless of our skin colour, religion and language etc
> 
> I married  a beautiful  Sri Lankan girl and couldn't be happier.
> 
> ...




Royce,

I don't think people are talking about skin colour here. You have made that description. It's the immigration standards!

Multiculturism is total bunk. Multiracialism under one identity and culture is what you mean.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (7 November 2006)

Bobby said:
			
		

> Yes Snake--- The number of welfare disability pensions taken out by a certain cultural group is staggering !
> 
> Bob.




Yes Bob, just come on in and get a free ride. And then sell drugs or import arms, whilst servicing 3 or 4 wives  Servicing wives with a  bad back. How do they do it? Maybe they should just   Or complain about it, and there will no doubt be someone willing to listen.


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## anon (7 November 2006)

Bobby said:
			
		

> Yes Snake--- The number of welfare disability pensions taken out by a certain cultural group is staggering !
> 
> Bob.





Where do you get this type of information, Bobby?  One hears a lot anecdotally confirming your statement, but is there any site where one can see the actual figures?

anon


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## Happy (7 November 2006)

Centerlink?


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## Bobby (11 January 2007)

Australias leading Muslim cleric Sheik Taj Din Al-Hilali is at it again! 

All over the news : backing ~  Muslims are better then Aussies because he says we have convict backgrounds    , also his comments about the convicted rapers, who he thinks are innocent.

I don't want any more pariahs let in, do you?

Bob.


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## Wysiwyg (16 March 2019)

The immigrants to Australia up to present have chosen to dress the same, speak English and integrate into society. Interestingly, Australia is changing from an Anglo/European dominant migration to an Asian dominant migration.

Look around and we see the product of immigration policy combined with a civilised system of living.
Will that homogeneous trend continue in years to come? I strongly believe for some they cannot integrate and will maintain their own separate sector of society. These numbers will be small and obviously different.

The Indi-China influx.
Recent years have seen these two most populous nations on the planet dominate immigration to Australia by a large percentage. The Chinese are generally law abiding, workers, non-religious and friendly. They dress similar, talk English and the ones I have seen don't bring over a communist mindset. Generally good people.

The Indians are generally law abiding, workers, friendly, dress similar and speak English. It seems they could assimilate. Generally sane and should make the transition of thinking.

There may be many reasons but the fact is the capped numbers accepted to migrate have many less Anglo/Europeans in the mix. Hmmmm.


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