# Trader, Investment Banker, Fund Manager education requirements?



## Neutral (24 August 2010)

Hi all,

I am interested in following a career path in the banking sector to become a Trader/ Investment Banker or Fund Manager. 

I would like to return to study and enrol in a course where I can gain access to these career paths. Which subjects would be most suitable to major in studying a bachelor of Commerce?

Any advice is much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.


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## c-unit (24 August 2010)

Finance subjects are most important for these career paths. A corporate finance course in particular if you were leaning towards IB. Trading/Funds management focus on the investment type subjects and some economics also is useful.

You'll also likely need to do the CFA (chartered financial analyst) program if you wanted to get into funds management, which has past study requirements as prerequisites. Ie you need some kind of recognised Commerce degree with enough Finance subjects.

Note that to land one of these jobs at a big bank, you need to be a gun and a damn hard worker.


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## Neutral (25 August 2010)

Thanks for the info much appreciated.

Are you in the banking sector?


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## skyQuake (25 August 2010)

Uni matters little. Your experience matter lots (ie internships etc)

Having said that, good marks are essentials.

The problem now is everyone has a double degree and good marks. Thus the need for experience to set u apart.

Trader, Fundie, IB are fairly different. IB generally can lead into the others.


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## doctorj (25 August 2010)

Neutral said:


> I am interested in following a career path in the banking sector to become a Trader/ Investment Banker or Fund Manager.



These are all pretty different jobs.  It's a little bit like asking what's best to learn to be a bricklayer/surveyor/engineer.
For trading, you want to have dow quantitative subjects (maths, physics, computer science) plus something like economics would be good.  
For IB (I presume you mean M&A here, this is a massive field in itself), people come from all walks of life.  Finance and law would be a good combination, but finance and engineering also works.  I did finance and accounting, but very few with this background - esp. if you don't plan going via the big 4. 
Fund Manager - not sure what you mean.  Hedge fund? Private Equity?

Whatever you do, good marks are essential.  Without them, you're unlikely to get an internship and without one or more of those, you're unlikely to get a look in once you graduate.

Have a think about what you want to do though.  They're some very different roles you've mentioned. To succeed you'll need to work out what interests you...


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## gooner (26 August 2010)

Neutral said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am interested in following a career path in the banking sector to become a Trader/ Investment Banker or Fund Manager.
> 
> ...




You don't mention your current experience  - for example engineering can be useful if you want to be an equity analyst in that sector, in which case you may be able to do a 1 year MBA or something similar and try and get a role.


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## skc (26 August 2010)

gooner said:


> You don't mention your current experience  - for example engineering can be useful if you want to be an equity analyst in that sector, in which case you may be able to do a 1 year MBA or something similar and try and get a role.




I wouldn't do an MBA to get into finance. MBA contains too much softy softy management stuff. A master of finance is a more relevant course imo.

Some investment banks offer graduate programs that rotate the young kids between difference divisions. M&A, corp advisory, debt origination, equities and trading desk. A couple years back they also got a nice big trip to intern in the bank's home county (Holland in this case). It's a great program to get onto if you are bright enough. 

To get into managed funds as analyst / portfolio managers a Master of Finance combined with a decent undergrad degree (e.g. engineering) would be enough. For private equity funds, management consulting is an alternate route (although probably even harder to get in itself). No ideas about hedge funds, but since hedge funds can operate quite differently, they probably look for people somewhere along the technical trader to pure economist continuum.


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## Gringotts Bank (26 August 2010)

Another _very low_ probability chance of getting a foot in the door is if you're already a successful trader of your own account.  If you can walk into a traders office and show him official broker statements proving you made 40%pa trading BHP for the last 5 years, he will be interested.  Of course you'd need to trade it regularly (at least a couple of times a week), you'd need to have clearly defined risk limits, low drawdowns etc.  You'd probably need to know someone high up in the industry, then be able to get him on his own for 5 minutes.  

Getting a degree or higher is _by far_ the safer, and more profitable career path.  You can always make a fortune by just tracking the index for your customers (as a fund manager) and creaming whatever you like off the top in terms of "management fees".


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## lion_ (1 September 2010)

Don't mean to hijack the thread - but I have a similar query but in regards to post-graduate courses. 

I have a BBus (Information Systems), credit+ average, and at end of year will have ~10 months in a professional telecommunications analyst position (grad program), 9 months worth of IT internships, plus 1 yr running a software development business (while working at previous positions).  

Want to move into a quantitative finance position, such as trader/banker/analyst/fund manager.  

Looking at post grad for next year, the top unis (MelbUni, UNSW) require a finance major/work exp to do a finance masters (fair enough).  What are my other options to get a high level analytical masters/grad certificate that will make me very attractive to employers in the above industries?

I wont have 2 years professional work exp unless I get creative, I don't work in a finance discipline (while investment management and modeling does come into it), and I don't have a finance/statistical/mathematical undergrad.

One option I've found is the Masters of Commerce, with say, an "Applied Finance" major.  As I've already done a lot of fluffy courses in a Business degree I'm hesitant.  If this is my only option, can anyone recommend good Unis?  My undergrad was at a fairly rubbish QLD uni and not looking for repeat.


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## wat ok (14 September 2010)

if someone could answer these questions that would be awesome thanks

anyone who is currently working or has done investment banking could share their experience how they got into investment banking that would be much appreciated

what are the highest sought majors for an analyst? i've seen so many different majors work in finance but there has to be a preference on the resume for employers/hr managers right?

is it possible to find a job in investment banking if u live in a smaller city like brisbane?

i'm embarrased to say but im currently in community college because i had no idea what i was doing in high school, i think i still have a slight chance but what can i do to improve my chances to work as an analyst?


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## skc (15 September 2010)

wat ok said:


> if someone could answer these questions that would be awesome thanks
> 
> anyone who is currently working or has done investment banking could share their experience how they got into investment banking that would be much appreciated
> 
> ...




I spent some time in an IBank through a scholarship. Unfortunately that particular internship is no longer on offer.

To get into IB you need top grades (top5-10%) - I don't think there is any way around it aside from personal connections - and even that doesn't guarantee you an interview. You can argue that the book smarts don't neccessarily make great IBankers, but there are so many people apply for their jobs, there is no need for them to reach down.

They actually take on many majors - finance, accounting, business/commerce, economics and law are the obvious ones. But engineering is also quite OK. As long as you top the class I suppose...

I don't know any true IBanks in Brisbane. If you are not prepared to relocate may be you don't want it bad enough (in their view)?

To improve your chances - get into a good uni (i.e. not Bond Uni), kick ass in the grades, meet some people in the industry (e.g. suk up to the right lecturers) and be prepared to work your butt off... good luck.


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## prawn_86 (15 September 2010)

To add to what KSC said, if you do happen to get a role with an IB be prepared for long hours and very little recognition for your first year. Not as good a job as what they make it out to be thats for sure.

Im lucky and landed a job with a boutique firm, and compared to friends in IBs i work very few hours and get paid nearly as well as them and get to have a life and job responsibility


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## nioka (15 September 2010)

If you are capable enough to make money advising others then why aren't you satisfied that you can work for yourself and do well.

 From my personal experience I find that these "managers" are usually there because it is the only way they can take risks and get away with it is to use other peoples money. The worst financial advice I ever had came from a supposed top notch financial adviser followed by a banks specialised financial adviser with an account close on his heels alongside my bank manager and mixed up in all that was MLC and AMP salesmen.

 When I disposed of these costly appendages I finally started to get ahead.

 My thoughts are to spend the money and time that you could use to land those jobs on researched investments and you are choosing your own destiny.


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## wat ok (15 September 2010)

Wow thanks a ton for everyone the info was really useful and solid

i guess I was being unrealistic and thinking there was some "secret inside information" to break into investment banking just like those books you see that are titled "How to beat the market". lol

After reading nioka's post, reminds me why I still wonder why financial advisers have such a poor reputation among the whole financial world. However, I hope you understand that a hedge fund manager and a mutual fund manager are quite different I wish I could explain the differences but I dunno too much except i always read articles like on nytimes that top notch hedgies make like billions on a good year. sick life.


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## nioka (15 September 2010)

wat ok said:


> I hope you understand that a hedge fund manager and a mutual fund manager are quite different I wish I could explain the differences but I dunno too much except i always read articles like on nytimes that top notch hedgies make like billions on a good year. sick life.




There is a difference. Hedge fund managers gamble with other peoples money. Fund managers invest other peoples money, skim off a healthy percentage regardless of their success and sometimes leave a little profit for those that invest.


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## skyQuake (15 September 2010)

nioka said:


> There is a difference. Hedge fund managers gamble with other peoples money. Fund managers invest other peoples money, skim off a healthy percentage regardless of their success and sometimes leave a little profit for those that invest.




Now now thats a little harsh. Some of them use sophisticated investing strategies to make money for the mums and dad investors. 
Instead of dartboard stock picking a few elite ones have employed the use of a complex system of roulettes and dice.


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