# I'm Sick Of Criminals



## bunyip (12 September 2008)

I'm sick of criminals and the way they're adversely affecting the lives of decent people. 
Not a day goes by without hearing of some moron smashing a beer glass into someone's face, or a violent home invasion, or some poor bastard on life support because he was set upon and beaten senseless by thugs while minding his own business. Rapes, murders, violent hold-ups, druggies out of control...you name it. 
Enough is enough. Question is, what can be done about it? I believe I know the answer to crime - not that we should kid ourselves it can ever be eliminated completely, but there's definitely a way to reduce crime dramatically so that ordinary law-abiding citizens can go about their daily lives without being constantly at risk.
But before I tell you my views on controlling and greatly reducing crime, let's hear the views of the forum.
How can we dramatically reduce the crime rate so that our society once more becomes safe to live in? Any ideas?


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## nevieboy (12 September 2008)

Bring in the vigilante squads.


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## dutchie (12 September 2008)

Restrict law breakers to their homes by an attached monitor.

If they leave their home they get an electric shock - not strong - just enough to make it very uncomfortable (so that they can't function properly).

If they try and stray too many times they are upgraded to a proper prison. 

Their family have to provide for them - not the state.


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## derty (12 September 2008)

This generation of crooks, deadbeats and other assorted oxygen thieves are set in stone. 

The best way to avoid this is proactive intervention with young marginalised families. Get in early while the kids are young and help the parents with basic parenting. 

If i remember correctly there was a NSW study that showed that for every $1 of proactive intervention it saved $7 of reactive intervention down the track.


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## bunyip (12 September 2008)

dutchie said:


> Restrict law breakers to their homes by an attached monitor.
> 
> If they leave their home they get an electric shock - not strong - just enough to make it very uncomfortable (so that they can't function properly).
> 
> ...




But some of the families would be as hopeless as the culprit and would be completely incapable of providing for them. And some crims wouldn't even have families.


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## dutchie (12 September 2008)

G'day Bunyip

If their families can't provide then normal prison.


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## bunyip (12 September 2008)

derty said:


> This generation of crooks, deadbeats and other assorted oxygen thieves are set in stone.
> 
> The best way to avoid this is proactive intervention with young marginalised families. Get in early while the kids are young and help the parents with basic parenting.
> 
> If i remember correctly there was a NSW study that showed that for every $1 of proactive intervention it saved $7 of reactive intervention down the track.




I can see some merit in that idea. But there are many situations in which it just wouldn't work. Some of the young people committing crimes are quite possibly the result of unplanned pregnancies, and have no-hoper parents who just have no interest in them. The sort of parents who are drunks and druggies who would not respond to any sort of parenting classes, who have no capacity for responsible thought or action, let alone being taught how to be responsible parents.
Other young crims are actually from good and decent families who have basically done a good job of rearing their kids and teaching them decent values, yet the kid runs off the rails regardless.
Take Scott Rush, for example...he's one of the 'Bali nine' who was arrested in Indonesia with heroin strapped to his body, on a plane ready to fly to Australia. At the time of his arrest, 19 year old Rush had already run foul of the law on a number of occasions. It'd be easy to blame his family for not bringing him up properly. But I saw his parents and his two brothers interviewed on TV, and you wouldn't see a more respectable family. His brothers all have decent jobs/careers, as does his father, and they're all respectable, clean cut looking blokes who have never been in any kind of trouble with the law. His family are all thoroughly ashamed and mortified by his behaviour, and they're very believable when they say that the way he turned out is no reflection on his upbringing.


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## gav (12 September 2008)

dutchie said:


> G'day Bunyip
> 
> If their families can't provide then normal prison.




So if 1 person steals a car, and has a good family, he can stay at home with his family.  But if another person steals a car, but has no family (or a family not able to provide for him) he gets thrown into prison?

The punishments need to be a bit more consistant than that


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## Bushman (12 September 2008)

Deport all the convicts to Australia....


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## Buddy (12 September 2008)

Bushman said:


> Deport all the convicts to Australia....




Deport all the convicts to the United Kingdom.........


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## BSD (12 September 2008)

Move to a better area...


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## nunthewiser (12 September 2008)

just sentence them to life in south australia and fence the joint off i reckon


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## Greg71 (12 September 2008)

Tassie used to be a prison. Why not make it one again. 

Just drop them off on the shore and go, "There you go mate, enjoy."


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## johnnyg (12 September 2008)

Id say that the justice system needs an upgrade. Start throwing these idiots away for 5-10 year terms instead of a slap on the wrist or "community service" and see how these tough laws impact on the crime rate.


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## BSD (12 September 2008)

johnnyg said:


> Id say that the justice system needs an upgrade. Start throwing these idiots away for 5-10 year terms instead of a slap on the wrist or "community service" and see how these tough laws impact on the crime rate.




I wouldn't have thought it would have any effect. 

Check out the US for how 'mandatory sentences' and other similar 'tough on crime' ideas play-out 

There will always be crims, idiots, spivs etc. 

Sad but true. 

Move to a better area!


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## roland (12 September 2008)

BSD said:


> I wouldn't have thought it would have any effect.
> 
> Check out the US for how 'mandatory sentences' and other similar 'tough on crime' ideas play-out
> 
> ...




Don't better areas make for better pickings?

Nothing is going to beat better and more Policing and harsher penalties. Rapists, theives and murderers don't last long in some middle eastern countries. Won't be long before we become an Asian or Middle Eastern society.


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## fordxbt (12 September 2008)

we should bring back the gladitorial games!
pedophiles would get wasted (im generalising their all overweight/weak)
hardcore crims would become gods amoungst the people :samurai: 
of course we would have to pitt them against some insane animal where they would inevitabley be savaged to death
it would sure be more entertaining than channel 7's poor ass version!


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## fordxbt (12 September 2008)

on a serious note i feel the united states is partly to blame
our media is mimicking their idealism
their positive spin towards gangsters/criminal behaviour
how you can make a living/get bitches/fast cars (a good life at that) by destroying the lives of others (and with minimal effort)
we've become a lazy society and sought for easier ways to get by (like online investing. HA! j/k)


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## Wysiwyg (12 September 2008)

> Other young crims are actually from good and decent families who have basically done a good job of rearing their kids and teaching them decent values, yet the kid runs off the rails regardless.




Bunyip, the criminal youth are either unaware of the consequences (punishment, pain, suffering, lifelong grief etc.) or are aware of the consequences but have to experience the consequences to fully understand them (realisation).Youth = reckless.


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## BSD (12 September 2008)

roland said:


> Don't better areas make for better pickings?
> 
> Nothing is going to beat better and more Policing and harsher penalties. Rapists, theives and murderers don't last long in some middle eastern countries. Won't be long before we become an Asian or Middle Eastern society.




I abhor violence etc, but just don't think policing and sentencing are the answers. 


I am no sociologist but here is my guess:

Culture/environment would be the first issue, mental illness the second, and education the third....

Ever met a violent person??? 

Most of them come across to me as suffering mental issues and the chance of them comparing the consequences of an 18mth good behaviour bond and a 5 year sentence appear limited. 

I was thinking poverty - but that is relative and there are plenty of poor people who are not violent criminals 

Oh and don't forget that when you include such indiscretions as traffic offences, drunken disorderly, public nudity, drug possession, littering, downloading music, insider trading (just to name some fun ones) - the vast majority of citizens may fall into the realm of an uber aggressive criminal justice system. 

I certainly do not believe in the state murdering/torturing people to stop violence!


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## Smurf1976 (12 September 2008)

Introduce proper consequences.

You lose your drivers license for drink driving but need a license to keep your job? Tough - you lose your job. If that means you lose the house etc too then so be it. Someone else could easily have lost their life through your stupidity.

You bash someone for no valid reason (ie not in self defence) you go to prison. No second chance, no means of a smart lawyer getting you out of it. It's prison.

You steal a car or burgle a house? Again it's prison, no options.

And so on.

In addition to the above, public naming of all convicted criminals published in the daily newspapers.

And make prisons as uncomfortable as possible. There's no reason to give criminals air-conditioning (for example) when many honest people who have worked hard, served this country in various wars and so on can't afford it in their own homes. Likewise all other comforts.

And upon release, 5 years or the duration of time spent in prison, whichever is the shoter, working on infrastructure projects of national importance. By that I mean getting the much talked about water etc ideas that we otherwise can't afford built and not simply patching a few holes in the road (which would put honest people out of work). It's called hard work and it's about giving something back. They'd be fed and clothed but not paid for the work. 

I'd expect we'd get rid of most crime real quick with a system like this once a few were caught and well publicised.

Note that I'm talking about hard crime that results in injury (or could reasonably be expected to) or causes major stress for the victims (eg house burglary) and not someone who drops a paper cup on the ground or risks only their own life somehow. The criminals that wreck peoples lives, not the ones that are just a relatively minor nuisance or require a bit of cleaning up after.


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## disarray (12 September 2008)

the rights of the individual carry more weight than the rights of society. a perpetrator is enshrouded in a thick veil of protection covering all aspects of police investigation, trial management, sentencing and so on. any violation of this complex web of regulation can be grounds for the perpetrator to go unpunished for their crime. the smartest thing any serious criminal can do is just be quiet and pay a good lawyer to start looking for loopholes in the case.

even if successful sentences in australia are often lax and the endless appeals process can whittle away even more time, then good behaviour and parole can see serious criminals out after 15 years while the victims carry the cost for the rest of their lives.

because of the ultimate right of the individual there is no need to be respectful of the state (which is really, by extension, all of us). so when lebanese gangs fire automatic weapons into police stations and threaten to rape the girlfriends of police officers they have almost no fear of repercussions because they know there is little consequence. the system also allows them to make complaints against officers who are then stood down and investigated.

what should happen is the cops should return fire, then go kick down some doors and crack some heads in public to show people that the state is the authority and holds the monopoly on violence. unfortunately thats not going to happen because people would piss and moan about these poor innocent kids being harrassed by the state, the politicians would worry about lost votes and so its easier just to have a bureaucratised police service (not force anymore) that uses rubbery figures to spin whatever line you need in the law and order debate.

a client of mine is a respectable businessman in his western sydney area, going to council meetings and neighbourhood watch and for YEARS he has been complaining about lebanese gangs taking over shopping centres and assaulting people at random (including his sons). he's spoken to his MP, the police, written letters, gone through the process, no one gives a ****. no one gives a **** because its too much effort for what will be no result anyway once all the leftys start crying on tv about how oppressed everyone is.

30 years ago when the aborigines in la perouse or redfern caused trouble the cops would round them up, give them a hiding, then all would be quiet. now they roam the streets assaulting people and destroying property at will and everyone just ignores it incase someone points out the fact that the perpetrators are predominantly aboriginal. their rights as an "oppressed minority" are greater than the rights of the asian girls they mug or the shopowners from whom they steal or the people who own the property they vandalise.

this is what a liberal capitalist society looks like. personally i think it needs more corporal punishment and national service but that kind of thinking is unfashionable now. we're all beautiful and unique snowflakes.


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## BSD (12 September 2008)

Amazing then that despite having one of the largest populations in jail that the US is also the leader in violent crime...


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## prawn_86 (12 September 2008)

Every child should be made to compete in a structured sport (not just in the playground) from the ages 5 - 10.

Teaches discipline, social interaction, gamesmanship, team ethics, and provides a release for anger and frustration.


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## Garpal Gumnut (12 September 2008)

nunthewiser said:


> just sentence them to life in south australia and fence the joint off i reckon




What a good idea.

gg


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## Timmy (12 September 2008)

Re: I'm Sick Of Criminals 

Yeah, well you have to vote for someone, that's the law.


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## wayneL (12 September 2008)

The consequences of Americanization.

When you create a two tier society of winners and losers, the disenfranchised turn to crime.

I've been talking about this in relation to the housing boom and the sociological effects of such.

There is the Prize and the Price.

Yin and Yang.

We (collectively) are fully responsible for it.


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## roland (12 September 2008)

Smurf1976 said:


> Introduce proper consequences.
> 
> You lose your drivers license for drink driving but need a license to keep your job? Tough - you lose your job. If that means you lose the house etc too then so be it. Someone else could easily have lost their life through your stupidity.
> 
> ...




and .... a tattoo'd barcode on their face and a medically inserted GPS tracker and a remote controlled explosive insert in their brains


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## bunyip (12 September 2008)

If you want to do something successfully, copy the methods of someone who's already doing it successfully.
When it comes to controlling crime, very few countries do it better than Singapore. It has one of the lowest crime rates, and some of the harshest penalties for criminals, of any country in the world. 
Maybe we should take a leaf out of their book.


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## Greg71 (12 September 2008)

Smurf1976 said:


> Introduce proper consequences.
> 
> 
> 
> And make prisons as uncomfortable as possible.




Good call. No T.V.s, no magazines. Just a bed. Like Alcatraz. Maybe it will cause them to think before they do it again.


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## Happy (12 September 2008)

Pity that we can talk as much as we like and nothing will happen, how sad.

Just wander if law obeying citizens could play silly buggers too in, theory they could.


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## BSD (12 September 2008)

Greg71 said:


> Good call. No T.V.s, no magazines. Just a bed. Like Alcatraz. Maybe it will cause them to think before they do it again.




Sure, why not some torture too. Harsher penalties - you know - a bit of violence, mental and physical?

Maybe some of that Guantanamo Bay stuff that is saving us from terrorists?

They should be well adjusted citizens after 10 years of such treatment - model citizens...

Maybe we just go straight to labour camps and the threat of gas chambers, electric chairs and/or lethal injections?

Are you blokes serious?

All this stuff makes people fell good inside, but makes no difference except to increase my taxes.


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## wayneL (12 September 2008)

BSD said:


> Sure, why not some torture too. Harsher penalties - you know - a bit of violence, mental and physical?
> 
> Maybe some of that Guantanamo Bay stuff that is saving us from terrorists?
> 
> ...



I'm inclined to agree.

Punishment only really deters folks who probably would never commit a crime anyway.

I don't claim to know the answer, but harsher penalties alone are not the answer.

For eg, Singapore might have harsh penalties, but social order is endemic in how they run the place. It's not "just" the penalties.


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## Happy (12 September 2008)

BSD said:


> All this stuff makes people fell good inside, but makes no difference except to increase my taxes.




There are cheaper alternatives.
In soome countries family pays for bullet too, what a great idea


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## BSD (12 September 2008)

Happy said:


> There are cheaper alternatives.
> In soome countries family pays for bullet too, what a great idea




Yep and when we are done with the crims we can start with the unemployed and weird.

We are lucky to live in a part of the world historically untouched with the execution of your 'popular' ideas

Enough from me - these threads are degrading.


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## johnnyg (12 September 2008)

disarray said:


> the rights of the individual carry more weight than the rights of society. a perpetrator is enshrouded in a thick veil of protection covering all aspects of police investigation, trial management, sentencing and so on. any violation of this complex web of regulation can be grounds for the perpetrator to go unpunished for their crime. the smartest thing any serious criminal can do is just be quiet and pay a good lawyer to start looking for loopholes in the case.
> 
> even if successful sentences in australia are often lax and the endless appeals process can whittle away even more time, then good behaviour and parole can see serious criminals out after 15 years while the victims carry the cost for the rest of their lives.
> 
> ...




Top post disarray.


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## Happy (13 September 2008)

johnnyg said:


> Top post disarray.




I thought the same.


What puzzles me is how to fix it.


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## jeflin (13 September 2008)

Unless we are talking about the mentally depraved, appropriate punishment must be meted out for crimes committed. 

For serial and hardcore criminals, I propose life sentences since they show a propensity to repeat their crime on the innocents. 

Public's interest must always be considered first instead of a minority few who choose to flout the law.


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## Wysiwyg (13 September 2008)

In effect we forgo our natural instinct to deal with criminals through a civilised (gawd, what is that) process of capture, trial and punishment by trained humans in those fields.


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## tigerboi (13 September 2008)

*Re: I'm Sick Of Criminals/bullies*

Stand up to bullies yourself show some guts,bullies are always weak cowards...always.

Example:my 15 year old daughter kept coming home with texta writing on her & i went mad at her,unbeknowest to me some little mongrel had been bullying her for 3 months & the mrs had been to the school(i found out from my eldest 17 year old girl)

The school said we are doing this doing that,i went & picked her up with my eldest & went straight to the principal(she tried to fob me off,that was her first mistake)she said our programmes blah blah,i grew up in the 70's when in the school yard you just belted the bully in the face.PROBLEM SOLVED.

It was a friday arvo & i said you aint done **** lady,monday 9.00am i want this fixed...i said ive given my daughter permission to belt this kid & suffer the suspension as a badge of honour FOR YOUR INACTION...

I said right were is this creature as we drove off,right there she was walking along the street,now my youngest is a big lump of a girl 5ft 6 1/2 & 16 next month,always the tallest in the class & thumped the 17 year old plenty of times.so i thought this girl was bigger than my youngest.wrong i was.

I said what that 5ft midget?yep,i jumped out with the girls & said to her dont #$%* go near my daughter again you little **** wipe,she was later expelled which should of happened months ago.

As for any dramas for me i didnt care,i didnt want to come home to find my girl hanging(recently a boy hanged himself through being bullied)

Lastly i said dont you ever run away again,you stand up for yourself...let me deal with the drama of you sticking up for yourself,now she's great going well in year 10 & my eldest doing year 12(what a year its been)

As i pointed out to the principal,schools are not equipped to deal properly with these weak bullies,my solution is the only way...tb


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## Mofra (13 September 2008)

Smurf1976 said:


> Introduce proper consequences.



Agree 100%, barely anything else needs to be said. 

If repercussions of criminal activity were commensurate with the act committed, there would be no second offences, and a marked reduction in first offences.


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## jersey10 (13 September 2008)

*Re: I'm Sick Of Criminals/bullies*



tigerboi said:


> i said ive given my daughter permission to belt this kid & suffer the suspension as a badge of honour FOR YOUR INACTION...




what would you have done if your daughter did go and belt this kid and the kid fell down and fractured her skull?

violence is never the answer.


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## pennywise75 (13 September 2008)

Has anyone witnessed this violent acts? or know anyone personally who has been attacked? raped? killed?

Could the media be blowing thing out of proportion?

Example .. all month we have had images of school fights taken by phones ... yeah it look bad .. but didnt these types of fights happen when you were at school? 

just thought i would throw that out there


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## jersey10 (13 September 2008)

pennywise75 said:


> Has anyone witnessed this violent acts? or know anyone personally who has been attacked? raped? killed?
> 
> Could the media be blowing thing out of proportion?
> 
> ...




of course the media blow it out of proportion, like they do with everything.  Thats how they sell their news bulletin / magazine / newspaper / website etc.


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## Rob Cole (13 September 2008)

Bring back the National Service Scheme. Teach respect, discipline and cure the obesity problems all in one go.


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## nioka (13 September 2008)

jersey10 said:


> of course the media blow it out of proportion, like they do with everything.  Thats how they sell their news bulletin / magazine / newspaper / website etc.



 Can you give an example of a media report on just one event THAT DIDN"T ACTUALLY HAPPEN.


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## skint (13 September 2008)

It's not all that bad. Take murder rates in Australia. Below is a link to,murder rates by country. Australia is way down the list.  



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homicide_rate

Here's the ABS page with comparison of murder rates per 100,000 since 1900.  It oscilates a bit, but essentially remains pretty close to 1.5-2.0 people being bumped off per 100,000. Less is always better than more, but clearly differences in sentencing have had little effect. For example, we're at the same rate as we had 100 years ago when capital punishment was all the rage. 


Anyway, way must away. I'm having a friend over for dinner.

Yours sincerely, Hannibal Lector.


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## pennywise75 (13 September 2008)

jersey10 said:


> of course the media blow it out of proportion, like they do with everything.  Thats how they sell their news bulletin / magazine / newspaper / website etc.




Question:

If their was footage of a bloody murder, would you tune into the news that night to watch?

are the news reports giving what we want to see?


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## Prospector (14 September 2008)

nunthewiser said:


> just sentence them to life in south australia and fence the joint off i reckon





Garpal Gumnut said:


> What a good idea.
> 
> gg




I used to read your posts, not anymore!


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## korrupt_1 (14 September 2008)

nunthewiser said:


> just sentence them to life in south australia and fence the joint off i reckon




lol... SA was the only state to be colonised as a free state - without any cons... lets keep it that way


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## nioka (15 September 2008)

korrupt_1 said:


> lol... SA was the only state to be colonised as a free state - without any cons... lets keep it that way





That's why it lacks people with imagination and initiative. Some of the early crims had wonderful skills ???????? ( tongue in cheek)


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## Sir Osisofliver (15 September 2008)

I've got a couple of house guests at the moment. They are relatives of my South African wife who are trying to get residency here. I never realized what a wonderful peaceful society Australia was until I heard these two speak and say things like...

Them  'Wow, your house doesn't seem to have any security measures, I don't think I can sleep."

ME What sort of measures do you have?

THEM "Well we live in a closed community where you need an electric pass key to get access with a 24 hour *armed response unit* on standby, electrified fences, panic buttons in the house, burglar bars on all the windows."

ME 


THEM Well everybody knows someone where something bad has happened to them, my sister in law was murdered, my uncle got shot during a carjacking. My 85 year old father was lucky and just got punched a few times when he got mugged....


Be thankful you live in a 1st world country is all I can say.

Sir O


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## tadpole (15 September 2008)

Them  'Wow, your house doesn't seem to have any security measures, I don't think I can sleep."



THEM "Well we live in a closed community where you need an electric pass key to get access with a 24 hour *armed response unit* on standby, electrified fences, panic buttons in the house, burglar bars on all the windows."




THEM Well everybody knows someone where something bad has happened to them, my sister in law was murdered, my uncle got shot during a carjacking. My 85 year old father was lucky and just got punched a few times when he got mugged....


Be thankful you live in a 1st world country is all I can say.

Sir O[/QUOTE]



oz seems to be heading in this direction.  why keep the flood gates open?  the crime in this country needs to be addressed, maybe some poli in the future will have the balls to say enough is enough. but i doubt this will be in my life time. cheaper for the government if we baracade ourselves in our houses, then for them to build jails.  

if taxpayers got paid for problem solving the government would owe us a fortune 

tadpole


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## tigerboi (15 September 2008)

*Re: I'm Sick Of Criminals/bullies*



jersey10 said:


> what would you have done if your daughter did go and belt this kid and the kid fell down and fractured her skull?
> 
> violence is never the answer.




i gave my daughter permission to stand up for herself which the school has no idea to deal with bullying,i didnt want my daughter hanging herself from some little grub the school wouldnt do anything about...tb


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## refined silver (15 September 2008)

*Re: I'm Sick Of Criminals/bullies*



tigerboi said:


> i gave my daughter permission to stand up for herself which the school has no idea to deal with bullying,i didnt want my daughter hanging herself from some little grub the school wouldnt do anything about...tb




I think you did right.


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## moXJO (15 September 2008)

*Re: I'm Sick Of Criminals/bullies*



jersey10 said:


> what would you have done if your daughter did go and belt this kid and the kid fell down and fractured her skull?
> 
> violence is never the answer.





I know two couples that have lost children to suicide because of bullying and the schools and offending parents pi$$ poor effort at dealing with it. Both couples regret not taking action themselves.

If it were my children and there was no action being taken to address the situation. Then I would lean towards doing the same thing as tigerboi.


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## white_crane (16 September 2008)

There is a difference between self defence and beating the s*** out of someone.


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