# Are the markets beatable by the individual trader?



## goponcho (12 October 2010)

"yea, in general he said trading sucks because its wayyyyyyyyy more competitive than most fields, way more smart people trying to beat it/learn it and the market is so controlled/dependent on the huge firms anyways, because they have such a large % of the capital invested in it that they move the market themselves based on their trading, so it makes it really hard for individual traders to have much ane edge...then if you go work for a firm you work 60-70 hrs/week and its really stressful"

quote from a friend in relation to trading in USA

discusss.
is trading beatable by a sole trader in australia with a relatively easy lifestyle?
that is given the training to get to that point.


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## Agentm (12 October 2010)

goponcho said:


> "yea, in general he said trading sucks because its wayyyyyyyyy more competitive than most fields, way more smart people trying to beat it/learn it and the market is so controlled/dependent on the huge firms anyways, because they have such a large % of the capital invested in it that they move the market themselves based on their trading, so it makes it really hard for individual traders to have much ane edge...then if you go work for a firm you work 60-70 hrs/week and its really stressful"
> 
> quote from a friend in relation to trading in USA
> 
> ...




i think he was the few hundred in the S&P500

not the many many thousands in the exchange

you can do fine in the small and microcaps there..


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## So_Cynical (12 October 2010)

Day trading is certainly difficult (i imagine)...however a individual trading with a open time frame and a certain level of flexibility, buying good stocks at significant low points in there price cycle and not being to greedy, acting with patience and keeping the big picture in mind....can beat the market.


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## nooberator (15 October 2010)

So i guess the trick is , to put one of these 60-70 worker drones on commision so you know what the big boys are buying and when.


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## skyQuake (15 October 2010)

nooberator said:


> So i guess the trick is , to put one of these 60-70 worker drones on commision so you know what the big boys are buying and when.




or learn to read the tape/go with the trend


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## springhill (15 October 2010)

Maybe you should look at it this way. You don't have to beat the market as a whole, maybe just be better than 5% or even 2% of people in the market.
There are always those that overpay/oversell.
Too simplistic?


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## goponcho (19 October 2010)

So someone trading by themselves is able to the beat the market because:

1) There are enough people out there making incorrect trades (are there?)
2) Have less liquidity needs than the big boys

What else?

In which ways can one have an edge to be able to become profitable?


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## Wysiwyg (19 October 2010)

goponcho said:


> In which ways can one have an edge to be able to become profitable?




Look forward to what products, services or commodities (others?) will be in demand. Supply and demand. It is as simple as that.


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## waza1960 (19 October 2010)

The main advantage of the small trader vs institutions IMO is that the institutions cannot trade large positions in one lot in the market without moving the price too far against them .
 So they have to stage their entries and exits into the market this behaviour is identifiable in price action (distribution/accumulation)and can be taken advantage of.
  The bottom line is that there are many different players in the market who have slightly different objectives associated with making a profit, your not directly competing with them all just define and refine your perspective.


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## malachii (19 October 2010)

Personally - I think the markets are "beatable" because as an individual trader I dont have to trade.  Large instos etc have to keep trading and moving no matter what the market is doing.  As an individual trader I am not beholden to managment, shareholders or any other "interested" party (except the wife and kids I guess!) so I can afford to trade when the set up is almost perfect.  This gives me a huge advantage - even when daytrading.

malachii


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## So_Cynical (19 October 2010)

goponcho said:


> In which ways can one have an edge to be able to become profitable?




How about simply being contrarian by paying attention to the longer term trading range of XYZ and just not buying/selling in the broad middle of that range, buy the bottoms and sell the tops...this works even if you don't sell the tops, just buy the bottoms and sell when suitable profit presents.


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## tech/a (19 October 2010)

I think the question is to braod.
On an individual trade basis pretty well everone can "beat the market" at one time or another.

To beat it---read out perform--and in profit to an extent which warrents the effort---year in year out then I would say its *very very rare*.

My definition of an extent which warrents the effort is---profit from capital invested above that which can be found in any other investment available to the investor.Property---Managed funds---Business---art---coins---banks-etc.


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## Julia (19 October 2010)

goponcho said:


> So someone trading by themselves is able to the beat the market because:
> 
> 1) There are enough people out there making incorrect trades (are there?)



What do you mean here?  What do you consider 'incorrect trades'?


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