# Is political correctness going too far?



## Pager (28 December 2009)

Reading the BBC website and a council in England has banned bingo calls like “legs eleven” or 88 “Two fat ladies” for fear of legal action should anyone be offended, these calls have been used for many years and become part of the tradition of calling the game, ironic that most people who go to Bingo in England are older females who are often on the bigger side, ironic this same group is very upset there game has been tampered with in this way by the local councilors.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/suffolk/8431483.stm


Here in Australia, often this time of year the politically correct brigade start banning on about Christmas but been a few years since any council has wanted to tone down or even not celebrate Christmas for fear of upsetting, offending or alienating non Christians, much I might add to there respective community’s relief, as a Muslim mate of mine said “all it does is increase tension between communities” and EVERY Muslim he knew was embarrassed and offended that councils felt they had to take these measures on there so called behalf.


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## Fishbulb (28 December 2009)

*Re: Is Political correctness going to far ?*

No. It hasn't gone far enough.


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## wayneL (28 December 2009)

*Re: Is Political correctness going to far ?*

New Zealand is refreshingly behind the curve when it comes to PC.

They get away with stuff here you could never get away with in Oz, the US or UK.

Fishbulb, what do you feel is far enough?


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## Mr J (28 December 2009)

*Re: Is Political correctness going to far ?*



Fishbulb said:


> No. It hasn't gone far enough.






It's madness, it has gone way too far. I don't see why we all can't just grow a thicker skin and say whatever is on our mind.



> since any council has wanted to tone down or even not celebrate Christmas for fear of upsetting, offending or alienating non Christian




Which is unbelievable, since I'd call Christmas a secular holiday with religion as an option.


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## Garpal Gumnut (28 December 2009)

*Re: Is Political correctness going to far ?*



Fishbulb said:


> No. It hasn't gone far enough.




Ca Bong Den, Old mate, you know little, political correctness is very very close to fascism, very close.

gg


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## Pager (28 December 2009)

*Re: Is Political correctness going to far ?*



Mr J said:


> Which is unbelievable, since I'd call Christmas a secular holiday with religion as an option.




http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26498003-952,00.html


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## Julia (28 December 2009)

*Re: Is Political correctness going to far ?*



Fishbulb said:


> No. It hasn't gone far enough.




Huh?  Are you serious, fishbulb?


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## gooner (28 December 2009)

*Re: Is Political correctness going to far ?*



Mr J said:


> Which is unbelievable, since I'd call Christmas a secular holiday with religion as an option.




Twas originally a pagan winter celebration that was rebadged as Christmas in the third century. So perhaps the paganists should be offended?


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## Fishbulb (28 December 2009)

*Re: Is Political correctness going to far ?*



Julia said:


> Huh?  Are you serious, fishbulb?




No....

Of course it's ridiculous. But it's a topic constantly pounded and done to death. 

I wonder if our social engineers know how we all feel about it? Of course they do, but it continues to be shoved down our throat in the name of "tolerance". 

I can't see a solution to it.


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## Happy (28 December 2009)

*Re: Is Political correctness going to far ?*



Fishbulb said:


> ...
> 
> I can't see a solution to it.




I don't think anybody can.

Unless we find out for sure that it is not them or us we our democracy and our political corectness doesn't stand a chance.


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## Julia (28 December 2009)

*Re: Is Political correctness going to far ?*



Fishbulb said:


> No....
> 
> Of course it's ridiculous.



Pleased to hear it.  Thought maybe the Christmas stuff had been too much for you if you were serious!



> I wonder if our social engineers know how we all feel about it? Of course they do, but it continues to be shoved down our throat in the name of "tolerance".



Reading this, it occurred to me to wonder who actually are our 'social engineers'.
I realise I couldn't actually name any.
One person for whom I have much respect is the social researcher, Hugh Mackay, but he simply reports on social trends, doesn't promote them.

Does this social engineering come largely from government?  Who else?

How is it that this rubbish acquires momentum?


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## Donga (29 December 2009)

It's way gone. 

Started with Quality in the late 80's and reinforced by mainstream media - movies depicting social "norms" then adopted by the obessives especially in the Left (unfortunately) to ensure social order can be controlled for the maximum good. 

Horribly Orwellian. Maybe the demise of the US and english speaking controlled world order will see it off. Other than centuries old cultural traditions, Asians tend to be more tolerant and pragmatic (oh the whales) - much to the chagrine of christians, anti smokers, naive greenies and anyone else who believes their behaviours most closely resembles the right path.  

Basically political correctness = intolerance. Most people recognise "political correctness" has gone way too far but few people are willing to recognise their own contribution.


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## Fishbulb (29 December 2009)

Started long before the eighties my friend. Remember this guy - Al Grassby?

Multi-Culturalism I believe was the term he used.


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## Fishbulb (29 December 2009)

*Re: Is Political correctness going to far ?*



Julia said:


> Pleased to hear it.  Thought maybe the Christmas stuff had been too much for you if you were serious!
> 
> 
> Reading this, it occurred to me to wonder who actually are our 'social engineers'.
> ...




Here's a link to a website which tries to explain some of PC's origins, though to me, it looks very biased. But I suppose it's a good link as it supports the anti-PC mindset. It does a better job than I could do.

Click


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## Calliope (29 December 2009)

One of the more idiotic examples of political correctness gone mad, occurred earlier in the year when the mayor of Mt Isa suggested that unattractive women finding it hard to get husbands should come to Mt Isa as there is a dire shortage of females there.

He was assailed on all sides by feminists and left wing loonies for making, what most thought, a sensible suggestion.


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## Bafana (30 December 2009)

*Re: Is Political correctness going to far ?*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> Ca Bong Den, Old mate, you know little, political correctness is very very close to fascism, very close.
> 
> gg




Political correctness and climate change are the new facisms. Both are well meaning enough to merit people turning a blind eye to the bending of the truth that allows them to prop up there existance, and both are creating elitest 'communities' that are the only ones wise enough to know the right way forward for everyone else. Both are or are becoming political machines in their own right, and both seek to punish those that don't agree with their beliefs.

It will be interesting to see who wins, political correctness or climate change. They stem from the same fundamentalist left. Are they different heads of the same hydra or beasts in their own rights.


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## craigj (30 December 2009)

totally agree bafana the world went mad a long time ago with political correctness  went to christmas carols in the park and had aboriginal woman speaking for around ten minutes about the land and how they didnt celebrate christmas 10000 years ago!


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## Happy (30 December 2009)

craigj said:


> totally agree bafana the world went mad a long time ago with political correctness  went to christmas carols in the park and had aboriginal woman *speaking for around ten minutes *about the land and how they didnt celebrate christmas 10000 years ago!




We also have about 140 religions registered in Australia not sure how many don't celebrate Christmas.
Maybe all those that don't, should have their 10 minutes venting time during Cristmas Carols ..

I can almost see it going that way.


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## overit (27 January 2010)

I dont think they are going far enough here. A bit unfair that they can still discriminate against non-hardworking folks too. 



> *Advert for 'reliable workers' banned as discrimination by Jobcentre Plus*
> 
> The boss of a recruitment firm said she was told she could not place an advert for ''reliable workers'' because it discriminated against unreliable people.
> 
> ...


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## Mr J (27 January 2010)

overit said:


> I dont think they are going far enough here. A bit unfair that they can still discriminate against non-hardworking folks too.




Blows my mind. How has it come to this?


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## Wysiwyg (27 January 2010)

Mr J said:


> Blows my mind. How has it come to this?



In some places I was employed I worked harder than the average pleb in order to keep my job. Unfortunately that failed because back scratching (refer: derriere licking) was the preferred method. In every workplace there is an entrenched group (can include union puppets) that cover each other and do a number on people they perceive as a threat, like a harder or better worker.


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## Happy (28 January 2010)

Mr J said:


> Blows my mind. *How has it come to this?*




I would say slowly.

Now it is almost bigger crime to name and shame the criminal than to commit a crime.


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## Atlas79 (28 January 2010)

My favourite PC absurdity is the way you're allowed to criticize all religions as a whole, but not to ever single out a specific religion for criticism, unless it is Christianity. (I say this as someone who isn't a Christian.) The contradictions are often fascinating. Multiculturalism trumps feminism apparently, since cultures that actually repress women brutally, or (for instance) hang homosexuals in the street for religious reasons, are not able to be criticized for this. Instead imaginary grievances, much milder even if they were true, are to be foamed at the mouth over, in our society which grants more freedom to those groups than any other in history.


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## Julia (28 January 2010)

Happy said:


> I would say slowly.
> 
> Now it is almost bigger crime to name and shame the criminal than to commit a crime.



That seems to be true.
Today an 18 year old appeared in court in the Rockhampton area.
Three days ago he assaulted and raped an *82 year old woman* in her own backyard.
He bashed her with 'a blunt instrument'.
She is now in intensive care in a critical condition.

It's difficult to imagine a more cowardly act.

The news report said he cannot be named.

Why the hell not?


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## Tink (29 January 2010)

Julia said:


> That seems to be true.
> Today an 18 year old appeared in court in the Rockhampton area.
> Three days ago he assaulted and raped an *82 year old woman* in her own backyard.
> He bashed her with 'a blunt instrument'.
> ...




I agree Julia. 

The privacy act for criminals is rubbish 

We have one in the paper today with the cannot be named, a child abuser.

Once they cross the law, they lose the privilege

Name and Shame them.


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## overit (29 January 2010)

No shortage of these unfortunately.



> *Driver fined for blowing nose in van*
> 
> * Sky News
> * January 29, 2010 5:48AM
> ...


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## GumbyLearner (8 February 2010)

The over 80 year history of political correctness.

Part 1 of 3

Part 2 of 3

Part 3 of 3


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## Atlas79 (8 February 2010)

Good post Gumby.

For an example of how PC works against us:

"A *massive manhunt* has been sparked by the robbery of an elderly couple by a group of assailants who followed them from their Bronx business to their home in suburban New York" says the article.

Have a look at what they don't mention:

abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local&id=6369950

So you have a massive manhunt without a description of the perpetrator. In case someone got offended by mentioning their colour. So it's better to let more people get hurt or robbed than offend certain others. Great system.


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## GumbyLearner (9 February 2010)

Employee steals $1M due to 'homophobia' of employer.

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26698513-952,00.html
Courier Mail BY Mark Oberhardt

A BANK employee who stole more than $1 million from two employers may not have used the money for the "high life" but it enabled him to avoid "living a low life", a judge commented today.

Judge Terry Martin, SC, was jailing former Suncorp Metway Bank and St George Bank employee Jason Paul Gabriel for eight years.

In the District Court in Brisbane Gabriel, 40, pleaded guilty to one count of stealing as an employee and two counts of fraud as an employee.

Prosecutor David Nardone detailed how two charges related to offences against the Suncorp Metway Bank from January 1, 2005 to April 4, 2007.

He said Gabriel was an equipment leasing manager who stole nine cheques with a value of just under $200,000. He began a spiralling system of using some of the money to repay the earlier stolen cheques.

Mr Nardone said Gabriel used his knowledge of the system to create fraudulent leases which meant Gabriel was paid just under $600,000.

After some repayments made by Gabriel the total loss to Suncorp Metway was $601,534.


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## Happy (10 February 2010)

GumbyLearner said:


> …
> 
> A BANK employee who stole more than $1 million from two employers may not have used the money for the "high life" but it enabled him to avoid "living a *low life*", a judge commented today.
> 
> ...





Things change, I thought stealing was LOW LIFE

But Judge must know better.


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## gav (16 March 2010)

*Jedi job hunter wins apology*

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/1028025/jedi-job-hunter-wins-apology/?rss=yes
_
A UK employment agency has apologised to a Jedi believer after kicking him out of a branch because he was wearing a hood.

Chris Jarvis, 31, said he was escorted from the Jobcentre branch in Southend, Essex, by security guards, The Sun newspaper reports.

Mr Jarvis is a member of the International Church of Jeddiim — based on the famous Star Wars films — whose doctrine states followers can wear hoods.

He filled out a complaint form and received a reply from the branch's boss four days later.

"We are committed to provide a customer service which embraces diversity and respects customers' religion," manager Wendy Flewers said.

Mr Jarvis said he was "standing up for his beliefs"._


I really hope Australia isn't heading down the UK's track of ridiculous political correctness...


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## drsmith (16 March 2010)

Does that make him a Jedi Master ?


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## chops_a_must (16 March 2010)

drsmith said:


> Does that make him a Jedi Master ?




I'd say he was just using the force.


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## gooner (16 March 2010)

gav said:


> *Jedi job hunter wins apology*
> 
> http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/1028025/jedi-job-hunter-wins-apology/?rss=yes
> _
> ...




Gav,

Seems reasonable to treat all religions equally. Obviously, they could ban all religious displays, hijabs, nun habits, crosses etc but just need to be consistent.


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## newbie trader (16 March 2010)

drsmith said:


> Does that make him a Jedi Master ?




your lack of faith is disturbing

N.T


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## drsmith (17 March 2010)

chops_a_must said:


> I'd say he was just using the force.



On second thought this will have Yoda turning in his afterlife.

Suffocation by force was obviously not an option as that would have been too dark side but filling out a complaint form :nono:

That's like Luke Skywalker using the sights in his X-wing fighter to blow up the first Death Star. Imagine what would have happened if he failed and the bad guys won. There would have been 5 less movies for a start.

He should have considered his options before rushing to pen and paper.

Firstly, he could have used his powers on the minds of the weak. This would have saved time, ink and possibly a tree. Alternatively he could have levitated heavy objects while standing on his head and if that was not sufficiently impressive he could have just got his lightsaber out and waved it around furiously.

This is not something he'll want to confess to his Jedi brethren otherwise he might be out on his ear, literally.


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## Ferret (12 October 2012)

Uproar as students dress as 'traditional' Aboriginal people

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/upro...inal-people-20121011-27f0e.html#ixzz2906SnovPhttp://www.smh.com.au/national/upro...itional-aboriginal-people-20121011-27f0e.html





Uni students just being uni students.  If your offended by this - get a life!


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## Calliope (12 October 2012)

Ferret said:


> Uproar as students dress as 'traditional' Aboriginal people
> 
> Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/upro...inal-people-20121011-27f0e.html#ixzz2906SnovPhttp://www.smh.com.au/national/upro...itional-aboriginal-people-20121011-27f0e.html
> 
> ...




The nanny state has now reached the point where people can't have fun anymore without weighing the pros and cons of whether they might be offending some people. 



> The Cromwell College principal, Ross Switzer, said he had called a meeting of the entire college body last night and spoken to the young women involved in the photo.
> He described their behaviour as "a young person's uneducated approximation of Aboriginal life".
> "They were not aware of the blackface mocking or demeaning indigenous people," he said. "They were trying to give a tribute to indigenous Australians, not mock or demean them.
> "I know that ignorance is no excuse for that behaviour [but] it was ignorance rather than an attempt to laugh at indigenous Australians."




The principal should have told the whingers to butt out.


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## DB008 (12 October 2012)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2041265/BBC-turns-year-Our-Lord-2-000-years-Christianity-jettisoned-politically-correct-Common-Era.html



> The BBC's religious and ethics department says the changes are necessary to avoid offending non-Christians.
> 
> It states: 'As the BBC is committed to impartiality it is appropriate that we use terms that do not offend or alienate non-Christians.
> In line with modern practice, BCE/CE (Before Common Era/Common Era) are used as a religiously neutral alternative to BC/AD.'
> ...


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## prawn_86 (12 October 2012)

haha they wouldn't have wanted to see some of the costumes we used to dress up in when I was at college if people are offended by that...


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## DB008 (12 October 2012)

http://www.adversity.net/special/niggardly.htm



> Washington, DC's black Mayor, Anthony Williams, gladly accepted the resignation of his white staff member, David Howard, because Mr. Howard uttered the word 'niggardly' in a private staff meeting.
> 
> Webster's Tenth Edition defines the word 'niggardly' to "grudgingly mean about spending or granting".  The Barnhard Dictionary of Etymology traces the origins of 'niggardly' to the 1300's, and to the words 'nig' and 'ignon', meaning "miser" in Middle English.  No where in any of these references is any mention of racial connotations associated with the word 'niggardly'.
> 
> ...


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## DB008 (12 October 2012)

Should this even be a point of discussion? P/C overboard.....




> BLACK sheep are on the endangered species list as some children in north Queensland learn to sing Baa Baa Rainbow Sheep.
> 
> The English nursery rhyme may have survived for 200-plus years but political correctness could finally put it out to pasture.
> 
> ...



http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/racist-baa-baa-black-sheep-put-out-to-pasture/story-e6freoof-1226012503056


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## pixel (12 October 2012)

chops_a_must said:


> I'd say he was just using the force.




maybe he wanted to join the work-force?


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## awg (12 October 2012)

If you are expected to walk out whenever a comedian makes an bad joke, then yes, too far..isnt that what comedians do?

Talking of jokes, both sides of politics are causing International embarrasment imo, with their planned strategies.

extreme hypocrisy on both sides

In my experience, if you have a mixed gender workplace, strong & intelligent personalities, all you need to do is throw in a little alcohol, and you get the most savage character assesments imaginable.

Someone attempted to dress me down once for calling someone a lady..when I asked them what the hell they were talking about..they explained that was a term for a prostitute.

The most amusing were the instances where female collegues would pronounce judgement upon their rivals.
I was informed a lady I admired suffered split ends and wore cheap perfume!

A loser in a promotional battle attributed her adversary's appointment in her ability to provide sexual favors.

Dont know exactly what Slipper is supposed to have said, but how can comparing womans private parts to a mussel be construed as extremely sexist and offensive?...isnt it pretty standard ?

did have a laugh at Julie Bishop grimly fending off whether she had suffered any sexism..I seem to remember even the mainstream media called her a "political whoar" (sp), due to the fact she has been Deputy to 3 different male leaders.

For particularly obnoxious females, I resort to addressing them as ma'am. 
This is the correct form of address for a female of unknown status, and used in the Military. 
After first freaking, they do settle to, especially if you say "Yes ma'am"


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## Calliope (12 October 2012)

awg said:


> Someone attempted to dress me down once for calling someone a lady..when I asked them what the hell they were talking about..they explained that was a term for a prostitute.




You should have known better, after that old chestnut;

Who was that lady I saw you with last night?

That was no lady...that was my wife.


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## Julia (12 October 2012)

awg said:


> Dont know exactly what Slipper is supposed to have said, but how can comparing womans private parts to a mussel be construed as extremely sexist and offensive?...isnt it pretty standard ?



Perhaps in the circles in which  you circulate.  One would hope not more generally.


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## nulla nulla (12 October 2012)

Calliope said:


> You should have known better, after that old chestnut;
> 
> Who was that lady I saw you with last night?
> 
> That was no lady...that was my wife.




And another one.."A lady is a lady until she goes to bed, then she does her whorish best". Please remember this is an old adage, not my personal perspective.


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## awg (12 October 2012)

Julia said:


> Perhaps in the circles in which  you circulate.  One would hope not more generally.




I admit to not mixing with any nuns or such recently

however euphamisms for female genitalia, including various molluscs, is rather obvious, and quite commonplace to whatever locality, age and social strata that I have noticed. 

Likewise euphamisms for the male genitalia, also abound, to such an extent imo, that the word penis is more shocking than for instance, the term "sausage"

Impolite & smutty out of context, I would agree, but mock outrage from our politicians is laughable.

If a female politician refered to a blokes "slug"..would that make her forever unfit for office?.. what about "Johnson"?..I think not.


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## drsmith (12 October 2012)

In relation to the title of the thread,

It is and it's a shame.


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## Julia (12 October 2012)

awg said:


> I admit to not mixing with any nuns or such recently



Given the gross indecency surrounding the sexual abuse by members of the catholic church, that hardly seems relevant.



> however euphamisms *(sic)* for female genitalia, including various molluscs, is rather obvious, and quite commonplace to whatever locality, age and social strata that I have noticed.



Again, I can only be relieved that I don't share your social circle.



drsmith said:


> In relation to the title of the thread,
> 
> It is and it's a shame.



Agree entirely about general political correctness, e.g. 'rainbow sheep' rather than 'black sheep'.
Crude, schoolboy sexual innuendo, however, is another matter.  That is an example of sexism, immaturity, rather than any flouting of political correctness.


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## drsmith (12 October 2012)

Julia said:


> Crude, schoolboy sexual innuendo, however, is another matter.  That is an example of sexism, immaturity, rather than any flouting of political correctness.



Bang their heads together and six strokes of the cane each from Christine Milne.

That should sort-em out.


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## sptrawler (13 October 2012)

drsmith said:


> Bang their heads together and six strokes of the cane each from Christine Milne.
> 
> That should sort-em out.




I'm sure a few of the labor guys would want a piece of that. Going by the way they roll over and wet themselves with Julia. They would be twitterpated with anticipation if Christine was going to hand out some strict discipline over her knee.


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## bellenuit (13 October 2012)

One question I would love to see asked of Julia Gillard and some of the others on her front bench that say attending Liberals should have walked out of the conference at which Alan Jones spoke and are smugly saying how by comparison most of their side had walked out or condemned the comedian at the CFMEU meeting is whether this is the first such event attended by Labor ministers that such a thing has happened. 

Are they saying that the CFMEU meeting was the first meeting or conference or get-together that someone said something sexist and distasteful? If not, and I doubt very much that it is not, then why have we not heard of them walking out at previous events at which such things happened?


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## Calliope (13 October 2012)

Julia said:


> Given the gross indecency surrounding the sexual abuse by members of the catholic church, that hardly seems relevant.
> 
> 
> Again, I can only be relieved that I don't share your social circle.
> ...




Awg's attitude to Slipper's crudities is an indication of the immaturity of them both. The language they both approve of are things that schoolboys usually leave behind them as they mature, along with the practice of writing crudities on the toilet door.


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## noco (13 October 2012)

drsmith said:


> Bang their heads together and six strokes of the cane each from Christine Milne.
> 
> That should sort-em out.




Speaking of Christine Milne, where is she?

She seems to have gone into smoke.


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## awg (13 October 2012)

Calliope said:


> Awg's attitude to Slipper's crudities is an indication of the immaturity of them both. The language they both approve of are things that schoolboys usually leave behind them as they mature, along with the practice of writing crudities on the toilet door.




I neither approve or disapprove, merely stating the realism that there is a lot of smut around, and my view that there would be plenty about in Canberra, the mock outrage is far more disgusting afaic. 

Never wrote anything on a toilet door.

So everyone knows that many people in high political office uses the F word a LOT..are they bad then?


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## dutchie (13 October 2012)

bellenuit said:


> One question I would love to see asked of Julia Gillard and some of the others on her front bench that say attending Liberals should have walked out of the conference at which Alan Jones spoke and are smugly saying how by comparison most of their side had walked out or condemned the comedian at the CFMEU meeting is whether this is the first such event attended by Labor ministers that such a thing has happened.
> 
> Are they saying that the CFMEU meeting was the first meeting or conference or get-together that someone said something sexist and distasteful? If not, and I doubt very much that it is not, then why have we not heard of them walking out at previous events at which such things happened?




Spot on - its pure unadulterated hypocrisy.


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## Calliope (13 October 2012)

awg said:


> the mock outrage is far more disgusting afaic.




Maybe. I suppose it is asking too much to expect the Speaker of the House to set an example and attempt to show some refinement. Gutter talk, which is common in the football dressing room and school toilets is hardly appropriate usage for someone who said he was trying to raise the standards of behavior in the House.


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## Tink (17 October 2014)

_THE decision to put Baa, Baa, Black Sheep out to pasture at some kindergartens because of racial concerns has been slammed by hundreds of Victorians. _

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...ictorian-kinders/story-fni0fit3-1227093091674

PC gone mad.


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## Weatsop (17 October 2014)

Tink said:


> _THE decision to put Baa, Baa, Black Sheep out to pasture at some kindergartens because of racial concerns has been slammed by hundreds of Victorians. _
> 
> http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...ictorian-kinders/story-fni0fit3-1227093091674
> 
> PC gone mad.




Hmmm. They don't seems to have a lot of substance.



> Staff at childcare centres in the south-eastern suburbs told the Herald Sun the lyric was being changed because of concerns over the racial connotations of “black”, and to reflect a multicultural community.




One what probably happened is that some (almost certainly new) administrator declares a new policy, which hasn't been implemented yet, which will certainly be overturned because it's stupid.



> Kindergarten teachers have told the Herald Sun a centre in Melbourne’s east had also considered changing the line “one for the little boy who lives down the lane” in case it could be deemed sexist.




I'll bet that by "considered", they mean one person in a meeting once said: "hey, should we change baa baa black sheep?" ...and everyone said, no, that's stupid.

In other words, "political correctness gone mad" could just as easily be re-written: "some people are idiots".

Not exactly news.

The baa baa thing goes back to 1986. That's how long "ZOMG they're banning the black sheep!@!@!!" stories have been around. But you I'll bet 95% of kids still sing "black sheep".


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## drsmith (17 October 2014)

http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment...or-misogynistic-question-20141015-116oqg.html

Whether male of female, the higher professions will only ever be occupied by the minority.

Civilisation as we know it would collapse if there was no one to serve the higher professions their coffee.


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## Weatsop (17 October 2014)

drsmith said:


> http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment...or-misogynistic-question-20141015-116oqg.html
> 
> Whether male of female, the higher professions will only ever be occupied by the minority.
> 
> Civilisation as we know it would collapse if there was no one to serve the higher professions their coffee.




It's true! What we aspire to =! what we actually do.

Still, that's a confused as hell story. The only actual outrage seems to be on social media - where you can find outrage about anything, anytime.

Then they find one person to give a garbled answer - on one hand she doubts the survey is real, because she doesn't think people would answer like that, and on the other hand she thinks it shows we're sexist, because the survey is real...? I'd put good money that there was a much longer interview, they didn't tell her what the actual question was, and they chopped the bits out and rearranged things to get the result they wanted.

The question was: *name something people think is a woman's job*

...so I reckon the more reasonable conclusion is that people think OTHER PEOPLE are sexist.

Which 'aint a leap.


----------



## DB008 (22 October 2014)

*‘Genderless gingerbread figures’ hit Melbourne bakery*



> IS this the most equal opportunities snack of all time?
> 
> A Melbourne bakery is selling “genderless gingerbread figures” for $2.50 a pop.
> 
> ...




http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/food/genderless-gingerbread-figures-hit-melbourne-bakery/story-fneuz8zj-1227098688271

What's next? 'White Bread'  ??


----------



## pixel (22 October 2014)

DB008 said:


> *‘Genderless gingerbread figures’ hit Melbourne bakery*
> 
> What's next? 'White Bread'  ??




Blackberries.
Black Currants.

... and how come nobody has yet complained about those gender-stereotypical A-men? What kind of image does it convey to growing minds in preschool and throughout their student lives, when the Commonwealth-funded Chaplain terminates every Prayer in the name of less than half the humans? "Ahh-Persons!"


----------



## burglar (22 October 2014)

pixel said:


> Blackberries.
> Black Currants.
> 
> ... and how come nobody has yet complained about those gender-stereotypical A-men? What kind of image does it convey to growing minds in preschool and throughout their student lives, when the Commonwealth-funded Chaplain terminates every Prayer in the name of less than half the humans? "Ahh-Persons!"




The word "Persons!" contains the sub-word "sons!"


RE White bread ... (yes, I have an opinion on most everything) :

I see that wholemeal bread is now made in a way to appear white.
Apparently to fool kids?!

I remember when ya could buy 
1.) Pumpernickel - black bread (Very tasty, especially with Coon Cheese)
2.) Rye Bread - dark brown
3.) Brown Bread - Beyonce brown


----------



## Tink (24 October 2014)

*Greens councillor Matthew Robertson suggests end of year function shouldn’t be called Christmas party  *

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...-christmas-party/story-fngr8h22-1227097625784


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## SirRumpole (24 October 2014)

> The question was: name something people think is a woman's job




Sounds like a motherhood question to me


----------



## Tisme (24 October 2014)

See 7mate is about to screen the old "Love Thy Neighbour" series.

We keep getting told we are a mature society (whatever that means) and coupled with us passing through the Y2K purification of the mind magic gates (where all the old draconian values and myths of Judeo Christian era were left at the stoop):- so why are groups still telling us what we should watch, accept and obey?

Surely we are so freiken tolerant we can discriminate between right and wrong (as prescribed by the City Of London nursery of PC and inetrnational tree huggers) without guidance?


----------



## SirRumpole (24 October 2014)

Tisme said:


> See 7mate is about to screen the old "Love Thy Neighbour" series.
> 
> We keep getting told we are a mature society (whatever that means) and coupled with us passing through the Y2K purification of the mind magic gates (where all the old draconian values and myths of Judeo Christian era were left at the stoop):- so why are groups still telling us what we should watch, accept and obey?
> 
> Surely we are so freiken tolerant we can discriminate between right and wrong (as prescribed by the City Of London nursery of PC and inetrnational tree huggers) without guidance?




I wonder if we will ever see "Kingswood Country" again ?

"Leave yer money on the fridge wog !". I doubt if this ever caused much consternation to people of foreign descent, they probably enjoyed it as much as anyone else, as it was a satire and condemnation of bigoted attitudes and not an attack on migrants. Unfortunately, people with no sense of humour can't see that. Some more enjoyment has been taken out of life in this increasingly PC country.


----------



## Tisme (24 October 2014)

Then there was "Tell Death Do Us Part" and it's sequel series "In Sickness and in Health"


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## Tink (25 October 2014)

True, Rumpole.

We have now become 'The age of the offended'.


----------



## Tink (26 October 2014)

Just sharing some quotes..

_Brave men among us, whose honour compels them to uphold the truth, must wage a spiritual battle against the forces of political correctness.

The beautiful, honourable and brave souls who dare challenge the politically correct paradigm are routinely ostracised, smeared, and abused.

That we even countenance discussing the question whether fathers are still necessary in families shows how far we have fallen as a country.

Fascism-socialism: two sides of the same coin, and they alone are responsible for the emergence of totalitarianism in Western civilisation._

Our free speech in this country is now gone, Bolt was right all along.


----------



## Weatsop (29 October 2014)

Tink said:


> Our free speech in this country is now gone, Bolt was right all along.




Part of freedom of speech is the ability to tell other people their opinions are crap. Part of freedom of speech is the ability to ask people to boycott something - even to boycott it because of something someone said.

Freedom of speech does not come with freedom from consequence.

...and as the court told Bolt, *a legitimate defence would have been "the statement was true".* Fact is, you're not allowed to lie about stuff as a way of insulting people about their race.

Pretty sure Abbott sued someone for printing lies about him. Right? Freedom of speech, though....?

Ha! Here's a snippet from the court docs - golden!



> Mr Bolt said of Wayne and Graham Atkinson that they were “Aboriginal because their Indian great-grandfather married a part-Aboriginal woman” (1A-33). In the second article Mr Bolt wrote of Graham Atkinson that “his right to call himself Aboriginal rests on little more than the fact that his Indian great-grandfather married a part-Aboriginal woman” (A2-28). The facts given by Mr Bolt and the comment made upon them are grossly incorrect. The Atkinsons’ parents are both Aboriginal as are all four of their grandparents and all of their great grandparents other than one who is the Indian great grandfather that Mr Bolt referred to in the article.




Any offensive statement based on this utter lack of truth would be actionable, whether race was involved or not.

...or does freedom of speech mean we can lie about people to their detriment? Slander and libel is ok, is it?


----------



## Tink (30 October 2014)

Weatsop, you may not have joined this forum yet when there was a discussion about 18C and Bolt. 
The conversation is here - 

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27364&page=173

Regardless of the outcome, he has a point, it needs to be changed, imo.

As has been mentioned, it is a lawyers picnic.


----------



## Weatsop (31 October 2014)

Tink said:


> Weatsop, you may not have joined this forum yet when there was a discussion about 18C and Bolt.
> The conversation is here -
> 
> https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27364&page=173
> ...




I didn't really see discussion about how the law clearly and unambiguously gives you a free pass if what you say is true, though. I think that's kinda a bid deal.

_
Section 18C *does not render unlawful *anything said or done reasonably and in good faith:
...
(i) a fair and accurate report of any event or matter of public interest; or

 (ii) a fair comment on any event or matter of public interest if the comment is an expression of a genuine belief held by the person making the comment._

As the court said: *it's legal if it's true.* You can't lie about people in public to their detriment, and you can't use lies to attack "race". This isn't a very difficult "loophole" - if what you say is true, you're fine. You can be as offensive as you like! You just can't lie.

The court found that Bolt lied. Usually he gets away with it, because usually his lies aren't actually illegal. In this case, they were.

You can say - and the court took no issue with saying - that "white skinned" Aborigines shouldn't get assistance. You can say that as much as you like. *What you can't do is make claims about a person that are false, and use those false claims to humiliate that person.*

I really don't see how that's unreasonable.


----------



## Tisme (31 October 2014)

Weatsop said:


> The court found that Bolt lied. Usually he gets away with it, because usually his lies aren't actually illegal. In this case, they were.




he gets away with it because he uses a well worn path other self opinionated, loud mouthed social haters use to demonise, socially ostracise and besmirch the unsuspecting. And there are far too many people these days who treat the whole thing as a popcorn spectacle giving credence to the haters..........the great Australian fair go ethos be buggered, that disappeared a few generations back when "men" particularly got interested in becoming fishwives.


----------



## Weatsop (31 October 2014)

Tisme said:


> he gets away with it because he uses a well worn path other self opinionated, loud mouthed social haters use to demonise, socially ostracise and besmirch the unsuspecting. And there are far too many people these days who treat the whole thing as a popcorn spectacle giving credence to the haters..........the great Australian fair go ethos be buggered, that disappeared a few generations back when "men" particularly got interested in becoming fishwives.




Often, Bolt doesn't actually say anything at all. He just sort of implies, and lets his follows run away with it.

Like I said in another thread - and you don't have to believe me - but a feller I know has been on Bolt's show a couple of times. He told me that Bolt thinks it's all a big game. Doesn't believe half of what he says, but does it for effect.

He's a professional troll.


----------



## Tisme (31 October 2014)

Weatsop said:


> - and you don't have to believe me - but a feller I know has been on Bolt's show a couple of times. He told me that Bolt thinks it's all a big game. Doesn't believe half of what he says, but does it for effect.
> 
> He's a professional troll.




I haven't been on Bolt's show, but even my low brow intellect recognises low acts when it sees them. 

I thank Sir Rumpole for pointing out to me the congenital defect beset our Mr Bolt:

ANTIPHOLUS OF SYRACUSE 
Where stood Belgia, the Netherlands?

DROMIO OF SYRACUSE 
Oh, sir, I did not look so low


----------



## Calliope (31 October 2014)

Weatsop said:


> .
> *The court found that Bolt lied*. Usually he gets away with it, because usually his lies aren't actually illegal. In this case, they were.




*The court. Bolt was ambushed. The decision was actually the opinion of one man. Judge Mordecai Bromberg.
*


> *Prior to being elevated to the bench in 2009 by the Rudd-Gillard government, Bromberg built a record as both a labour lawyer and Labor lawyer. In 2001, he ran for ALP pre-selection for the federal seat of Burke. He finished second to Brendan O'Connor. His primary motivation for running for Parliament, he said, was to reverse the Workplace Relations Act. The core of his practice was acting for unions, especially the most violence-prone, the Construction Forestry Mining and Engineering Union. He acted for the CFMEU in 2009 after it had been found to be in contempt of court. He defended the CFMEU enforcer Joe McDonald. He defended the CFMEU after its unlawful strike at the Yallourn power station. He is a former Australian president of the union-funded International Centre for Trade Union Rights. He opposed the setting up of the Australian Building and Construction Commission. He opposes secret ballots.
> It was Bromberg who delivered the judgment in the Andrew Bolt racial vilification case, in which he deemed that it was not enough to find Bolt guilty but required conspicuous apologies to be published.
> *




Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/the-labor-lawyer-and-the-death-seal-20131218-2zlca.html#ixzz3HhsAJ24u


----------



## Weatsop (31 October 2014)

Calliope said:


> *The court. Bolt was ambushed. The decision was actually the opinion of one man. Judge Mordecai Bromberg.
> *
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/the-labor-lawyer-and-the-death-seal-20131218-2zlca.html#ixzz3HhsAJ24u




So you're saying Bolt *didn't* lie?

Because, you know, I quoted the court's finding up above. Seems like a cut-and-dried lie to me. The court doesn't get to just make stuff up. People would notice. Bolt said something that was clearly and blatantly false.

Talking about the judge's political background as a way of ignoring the argument is a pretty perfect example of an ad hominem (which *isn't*, as so many people think, the same as "being rude to your opponent").

Please, by all means, show that either Bolt didn't say what he is reported to have said, or show that these people's entire families weren't aboriginal, as the court found.

You can't just pretend it didn't happen. Everything here is on the public record. Bolt lied about people. He really did. You can't deny it.


----------



## pixel (31 October 2014)

Calliope said:


> *The court. Bolt was ambushed. The decision was actually the opinion of one man. Judge Mordecai Bromberg.
> *
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/the-labor-lawyer-and-the-death-seal-20131218-2zlca.html#ixzz3HhsAJ24u




What a pathetic attempt to cast aspersion on our justice system! 
Bolt's views are offensive to most Australian, and a duly appointed Judge ruled accordingly.
If a small group of ultra-right rednecks has an issue with that, maybe it's time they reconsider their attitude. But don't blame it on one Judge or the time he was appointed. Get over it, SMH and people on the right fringe.


----------



## Calliope (1 November 2014)

pixel said:


> If a small group of ultra-right rednecks has an issue with that, maybe it's time they reconsider their attitude. But don't blame it on one Judge or the time he was appointed. *Get over it, SMH and people on the right fringe*.




You have me a little confused. Is that just your personal view, or is it an instruction from a Moderator?


----------



## Tink (4 December 2014)

The Greens are at it again....

No Gender December -- Giving girls dolls causes domestic violence.

 Again, meddling with children's heads, and their happiness, in the name of social engineering.


----------



## Julia (4 December 2014)

Tink said:


> No Gender December -- Giving girls dolls causes domestic violence.



I wonder how the Greens' original voter base feel about all this stuff, those people who were actually concerned about the environment more than asylum seekers and kids' toys?


----------



## SirRumpole (4 December 2014)

Julia said:


> I wonder how the Greens' original voter base feel about all this stuff, those people who were actually concerned about the environment more than asylum seekers and kids' toys?




Just shows how far the Looney Left and Gay lobby has infiltrated the Greens unfortunately.


----------



## Value Collector (4 December 2014)

Tink said:


> Again, meddling with children's heads, and their happiness, in the name of social engineering.




There is link between what toys children play with and what skills they develop, I have no problem with giving girls (or boys) dolls, But it would be good to see more girls get given lego, mecano sets and other engineering type toys, or more sporting goods etc as well.

But if you have to load your girls up with dolls, choose a Anna or Elsa doll instead of a Barbie (cheap plug)

*Girls want to build too*

Funny video showing girls want more than princesses.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (4 December 2014)

I must admit that all this PC stuff from Sen. Larissa Waters is manna from heaven for me.

I go on websites ( apart from ASF) , and click the thumbs up, endorse her views and take it a weensy bit further to promote outrage. 

e.g Suggesting Barbie be banned, should be black, have no breasts etc.

The louder one announces the wackiness of the Greens imo the better one works for democracy.

Thanks Larissa, or is it Larrisa, or hey you.

gg


----------



## Value Collector (4 December 2014)

Tink said:


> We have now become 'The age of the offended'.




That's a bit rich coming from a person who's a member of the catholic church which is the greatest book and film banning institution in history, and who for hundreds of years would put people to death for blasphemy, which is the crime of offending their imaginary friend.

You lot claim secular society has taken away your free speech, Secular society gives you the free speech, nothing in church doctrine ensures free speech, Anyone speaking out against the church for the vast majority of its history would have been killed or had their tongue cut out, this is still true in some parts of the world.

Part of having free speech is respecting the free speech of others, even those who disagree with you, that's something some people still have to learn.


----------



## SirRumpole (4 December 2014)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I must admit that all this PC stuff from Sen. Larissa Waters is manna from heaven for me.
> 
> I go on websites ( apart from ASF) , and click the thumbs up, endorse her views and take it a weensy bit further to promote outrage.
> 
> ...




Larissa doesn't mind spending our money on her comfort...

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...addington-office/story-fnihsrf2-1226889449998


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## Tisme (4 December 2014)

All this talk about boys toys and girls toys, what about all those blokes out there that aren't boys who have carried on a centuries old tradition of being totally useless with a hammer, saw, mechanicals .... how do we cater for those losers apart from foisting a pike in their hands and asking them to skewer a horse carrying a man dressed in a tin suit and holding a lance?


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (4 December 2014)

Larissa Muppet is a gamer. She will get 1-2 $m out of our Government before she is exposed.

http://www.theguardian.com/australi...after-image-of-daughters-pink-dress-published


----------



## SirRumpole (4 December 2014)

Tisme said:


> All this talk about boys toys and girls toys, what about all those blokes out there that aren't boys who have carried on a centuries old tradition of being totally useless with a hammer, saw, mechanicals .... how do we cater for those losers apart from foisting a pike in their hands and asking them to skewer a horse carrying a man dressed in a tin suit and holding a lance?




Well I don't know about you, but I've taken up knitting


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## IFocus (4 December 2014)

Bob Katter man after my own heart guns for the boys dolls for the girls, I assumed he meant guns with live ammo.


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## IFocus (4 December 2014)

This why Abbotts a tosser




> Indeed, perhaps our current crop of conservative politicians and pundits (most of whom are male) spent a lot of time playing with the kind of aggressive male toys that the researchers were worried about. After all, it seems that their favourite mode of behavior is attack. That’s why they were so effective in opposition and, perhaps, part of the reason why they appear to be floundering so badly in government. Waters gave them the chance to go on the attack again and – yee hah – they were back in their comfort zone.




http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...er-fair-game-no-thats-just-scorn-and-ridicule


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (4 December 2014)

I must admit that Political Correctness is a plague on our Society.

I migrated here 40 years ago, the best decision I ever made.

We are crippled by pseudo-intellectuals who have never experienced want, or fear, or arrest or torture or imprisonment.

Bugger them all.

Muppets.

gg


----------



## Tink (5 December 2014)

Agree, GG.

Julia, I have no idea what they are thinking, but I see the Greens as destructive, not to mention, hypocrites. 

The sad thing is, our public education system seems to run from this PC and leftist speak, even though the children are coming out with no literacy or numeracy, this rubbish is being pushed.
Look at Rumpole's post in feminism.

VC, blaming gender toys for domestic violence, is ridiculous. 
Of course she can speak, but us being howled down with outrage every time we say something against this political correct garbage, is not freedom of speech. 
It is suppression of speech, and stops any sort of debate.

It is called the 'victim mentality' which is what I meant by, The age of the offended.

Let children be children. 

PC is destroying this country, anything that was available has been questioned, from Thomas the Tank Engine, which my son loved by the way, to Baa Baa Black Sheep.
Trying to destroy everything we grew up with, is wrong.


----------



## SirRumpole (5 December 2014)

We seem to have caught the British disease on PC, where a radio broadcaster had to resign for playing a song "The Sun has got his hat on", which mentioned the word "******". 

He probably didn't even know the word was in the song, and an apology would have been sufficient, but no doubt the permanently outraged in Britain forced his resignation.

Hahaha. Even this site is self censoring. The asterisks above replaced a word I actually typed in.

Maybe the PC police have got to Joe too.


----------



## Value Collector (5 December 2014)

IFocus said:


> Bob Katter man after my own heart guns for the boys dolls for the girls, I assumed he meant guns with live ammo.




I say guns for the girls, this girl is amazing, she shoots better than a lot of men I have seen in the Army, why deny people based on sex.


----------



## Value Collector (5 December 2014)

Tink said:


> VC, blaming gender toys for domestic violence, is ridiculous.
> .




I didn't say anything about domestic violence.

I said the kinds of toys children play with plays a part in the skills they develop. A lot of "boys" toys help build interest and skills in engineering eg lego, meccano sets, hobby electrical sets etc. If you never let your girls play with such things, they will fall behind. I really think there is a link to that and the lack of women engineers.

I have no problem with giving your girls dolls, prams, toy ironing boards and kitchen sets, But why limit them to only those things.


----------



## SirRumpole (5 December 2014)

Value Collector said:
			
		

> I have no problem with giving your girls dolls, prams, toy ironing boards and kitchen sets, But why limit them to only those things.




I reckon the best way is to take kids around a department store, see what attracts their interest, then base the toy/present decision on that.

Apart from anything else it would save a lot of disappointment if the child doesn't get what they are interested in.


----------



## Value Collector (5 December 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> I reckon the best way is to take kids around a department store, see what attracts their interest, then base the toy/present decision on that.
> 
> Apart from anything else it would save a lot of disappointment if the child doesn't get what they are interested in.




Yes, offcourse get them some toys they have asked for, but you can always try and nudge them in a direction of a mind expanding toy, the younger you can spark their interest the better, I mean there is a limit to the amount you can learn by brushing dolly's hair and putting her to bed.

It seems that from a young age boys and girls are drilled that pink is for girls and blue is for boys, Almost as soon as they can talk they will tell you pink is for girls, blue is for boys. So when they walk around the department store they will be attracted to the pink frilly mind numbing section, and avoid the blue lego boxes.

I don't know how you can change this besides avoiding bringing you kids up with the idea of gender based colours to start with.


----------



## Tisme (5 December 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> I reckon the best way is to take kids around a department store, see what attracts their interest, then base the toy/present decision on that.
> 
> Apart from anything else it would save a lot of disappointment if the child doesn't get what they are interested in.




There were plenty of boys I knew who had dolls, dressed up in mum's clothes with lippy on, made manginas while running under the sprinkler, put arms over the shoulder of their "cobber", kissed their dad.

My own daughter was raised with tools and mechanicals and can do what most men can't when it comes to construction skillsets. She is very feminine, likes teddy bears  and sought after by the opposite sex.


----------



## SirRumpole (5 December 2014)

Tisme said:


> My own daughter was raised with tools and mechanicals and can do what most men can't when it comes to construction skillsets. She is very feminine, likes teddy bears  and sought after by the opposite sex.




Could I have her phone number please ?

My house needs some renovation.


----------



## Tisme (5 December 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> Could I have her phone number please ?
> 
> My house needs some renovation.




I think I just posted that my son and I are tools!!! 

Shame you don't live in Brisbane ...I have three workshops around the place that have enough gear to open a hire company.


----------



## moXJO (5 December 2014)

Value Collector said:


> I say guns for the girls, this girl is amazing, she shoots better than a lot of men I have seen in the Army, why deny people based on sex.




Thats more pushing kids into a common hobby/interest. Not sure about other towns but I've been in the boxing, mma, shooting, motorcycle scene and girls have been a big part in all for the last decade. Its not some new thing.
My biggest concern is that boys are falling behind  in everything and disconnecting from society. You will never get equal rights if you lose a generation of boys who become  jaded.


----------



## Value Collector (6 December 2014)

moXJO said:


> My biggest concern is that boys are falling behind  in everything and disconnecting from society. You will never get equal rights if you lose a generation of boys who become  jaded.




What do you mean, why would we lose a generation of boys become jaded?


----------



## moXJO (6 December 2014)

Value Collector said:


> What do you mean, why would we lose a generation of boys become jaded?




whoa are you serious? you can impressively recite some of the better posts on gender equality arguments yet ignore male literacy, incarceration rates, suicide levels , mental health to name a few. I mean I get the whole cant walk topless down the street and the whole "free the nipple " campaign but Jesus talk about third world problems and superficial bs.


----------



## Value Collector (6 December 2014)

moXJO said:


> whoa are you serious? you can impressively recite some of the better posts on gender equality arguments yet ignore male literacy, incarceration rates, suicide levels , mental health to name a few. I mean I get the whole cant walk topless down the street and the whole "free the nipple " campaign but Jesus talk about third world problems and superficial bs.




What I was really trying to get at was, are you saying that males are becoming jaded because women have become a little more empowered?

To be honest I see a lot of the problems you mentioned stemming from the same gender based indoctrination we touched on earlier, eg books are for girls, boys don't cry, men don't talk about their feelings, etc etc.


----------



## Tink (6 December 2014)

Exactly, moXJO

The boys are going backwards, and they are pushing them out, back into silence.

Where are the male teachers in the public education system?

There are none.


----------



## moXJO (6 December 2014)

Value Collector said:


> What I was really trying to get at was, are you saying that males are becoming jaded because women have become a little more empowered?
> 
> To be honest I see a lot of the problems you mentioned stemming from the same gender based indoctrination we touched on earlier, eg books are for girls, boys don't cry, men don't talk about their feelings, etc etc.



no Im talking double standards. You will not get equality or even decent communication while we let our young men rot. Domestic violence against men has been classed a joke(a judge told a male victim to suck it up in my town). Equal parenting rights are a joke. Men are being taught they are expendable and that their rights mean nothing. Theres a reason why no one wants to get married anymore.
But my biggest gripe is the education system . Fail boys there and you weaken society. If you want strong women with equal rights , then build up strong educated men.


----------



## Value Collector (6 December 2014)

Tink said:


> Exactly, moXJO
> 
> The boys are going backwards, and they are pushing them out, back into silence.
> 
> ...




I left school 14 years ago, so I have no idea what its like now, but nearly half of the teachers at my high school were male, my memory may be over stating that, but it would have been atleast a third. I can't remember a single female science teacher.


----------



## Value Collector (6 December 2014)

moXJO said:


> no Im talking double standards. You will not get equality or even decent communication while we let our young men rot. Domestic violence against men has been classed a joke(a judge told a male victim to suck it up in my town). Equal parenting rights are a joke. Men are being taught they are expendable and that their rights mean nothing. Theres a reason why no one wants to get married anymore.
> But my biggest gripe is the education system . Fail boys there and you weaken society. If you want strong women with equal rights , then build up strong educated men.




Domestic violence is still dominated by males, murders are dominated by males.

Yes the educational system needs work, its tough to get boys reading when it's not cool for boys to read, I agree men need more rights in relation to children. But across the board, especially outside australia, its women who lag well behind men when it comes to human rights.


----------



## moXJO (6 December 2014)

Value Collector said:


> Domestic violence is still dominated by males, murders are dominated by males.
> 
> Yes the educational system needs work, its tough to get boys reading when it's not cool for boys to read, I agree men need more rights in relation to children. But across the board, especially outside australia, its women who lag well behind men when it comes to human rights.




Shaming tactics won't work, neither will statistics if you have already failed to raise a well adjusted person.If anything they just hate a little more.
In my opinion if you catch boys early with education a lot of the other problems fix themselves. Boys also lack the emotional intelligence that women have. Understanding this better at a younger age would probably boost their conflict resolution later on.
Any way my point is mainly that if you create a divide between the sexes through hate and blame then one/both sides stop listening. Creating double standards furthers that gap.
New millennium feminism simply fails.

I'm not anti-women either. I enjoy being surrounded by strong intelligent women. 
And have no problem supporting womens rights. I do have a problem with hating/point scoring for sake of gender from either side.


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## SirRumpole (6 December 2014)

Value Collector said:


> I left school 14 years ago, so I have no idea what its like now, but nearly half of the teachers at my high school were male, my memory may be over stating that, but it would have been atleast a third. I can't remember a single female science teacher.




A bit of basic research indicates that men represent less than 30% of the teaching staff in government schools. They are being attracted to non government schools by higher pay rates. I would venture to suggest that higher discipline standards in private schools may also be a factor.

Although it's obviously not PC, it would be interesting to see a correlation between DV and divorce rates by whether they went to public or private schools, and if the lack of male role models in public schools has an impact.



> Public school system losing male teachers
> Non-government schools' male staff up 25pc
> Better pay attracting men to private education
> 
> ...


----------



## Value Collector (6 December 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> A bit of basic research indicates that men represent less than 30% of the teaching staff in government schools. .




25% is not bad, I thought it would be around 30%, so I wasn't far off



Tink said:


> Where are the male teachers in the public education system?
> 
> There are none.




Turns out there are a lot more than none.


----------



## SirRumpole (6 December 2014)

Value Collector said:


> 25% is not bad, I thought it would be around 30%, so I wasn't far off




Hardly satisfactory though is it ?


----------



## Value Collector (6 December 2014)

moXJO said:


> Shaming tactics won't work, neither will statistics if you have already failed to raise a well adjusted person.If anything they just hate a little more.
> In my opinion if you catch boys early with education a lot of the other problems fix themselves.




It does sort of relate to the issue that was discussed earlier in my opinion, The "Guns for boys and Dolls for girls" crowd are responsible for putting gender into certain childhood activities, and I think a lot of them think books fall into the same category as dolls. I know when I was young books were not a "cool" thing for boys, but the vast majority of girls read books for fun, and when giving gifts to my nieces and nephews, books are much more readily accepted by the nieces.



> Creating double standards furthers that gap.




I don't think anything I have said is in favour of double standards existing.


----------



## Value Collector (6 December 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> Hardly satisfactory though is it ?




there are no laws that stop males teaching, I think less males just choose it as a profession, just like less females choose a other professions. In Australia only 9.6% of Engineers are women.

We can't mandate certain percentages of male/female, they have to choose to do it.

Maybe if more girls played with lego , meccano sets and electrical hobby sets instead of dolls, we would have more female engineers, maybe if young boys thought books were cool, they would have a better time in school and pursue teaching careers.

if you indoctrinate kids into gender roles from the crib, you can't complain about a lack of gender diversity in adult hood. 

"Boys get guns, girls get dolls", Is it really a surprise that women only make up less than 15% of the permanent positions in the Army, while men make up only 10% of nurses?


----------



## moXJO (6 December 2014)

Value Collector said:


> I don't think anything I have said is in favour of double standards existing.




You mentioned domestic violence against women was higher as an argument. I'm saying domestic violence is wrong period. White ribbon day fails in that respect as well.   
I agree with most of what you have said, but you are more focused on cure not prevention. I am not disagreeing with you, just that you should view giving male issues attention might go a long way towards solving female ones.


----------



## SirRumpole (6 December 2014)

> there are no laws that stop males teaching, I think less males just choose it as a profession, just like less females choose a other professions. In Australia only 9.6% of Engineers are women.




The point is that the percentage of males teachers is declining. They provide a role model and discipline for boys.

Female teachers have a lot more trouble controlling classes of boys and discipline is going downhill. The link between this and falling educational standards, high youth unemployment, increasing drunkeness and disorder needs to be investigated. It's a societal problem and one that can't be swept under the carpet with a shrug.


----------



## Value Collector (6 December 2014)

moXJO said:


> but you are more focused on cure not prevention.




I think I am one of the only people suggesting the answer to these problems is changing the gender divisions we instil from the crib.

Go back a page and the comments seem like they are coming from a mob with torches and pitch forks hell bent on maintaining the gender bias of certain activities that create this stuff.

When Katter can make a stupid comment like "guns for boys, dolls for girls" and people cheer it, we are along way from a solution.


----------



## Value Collector (6 December 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> The point is that the percentage of males teachers is declining. They provide a role model and discipline for boys.
> 
> Female teachers have a lot more trouble controlling classes of boys and discipline is going downhill. The link between this and falling educational standards, high youth unemployment, increasing drunkeness and disorder needs to be investigated. It's a societal problem and one that can't be swept under the carpet with a shrug.




Discipline needs to be instilled by parents. I don't think educational standards have fallen because there are not enough male teachers, it's because a lot of boys struggle with basic literacy, and you can't make a child have good literacy unless he or she is reading in their own time, more girls read for fun, hence they will not struggle so much in higher grades and high school.

If a child misses the reading boat in grade 2-3 they may never catch up, in later years they won't understand things and their study won't be efficient in every other subject. If they don't understand things they will act up because of boredom, trying to then instil discipline is futile.


----------



## SirRumpole (9 December 2014)

Value Collector said:


> Discipline needs to be instilled by parents. I don't think educational standards have fallen because there are not enough male teachers, it's because a lot of boys struggle with basic literacy, and you can't make a child have good literacy unless he or she is reading in their own time, more girls read for fun, hence they will not struggle so much in higher grades and high school.
> 
> If a child misses the reading boat in grade 2-3 they may never catch up, in later years they won't understand things and their study won't be efficient in every other subject. If they don't understand things they will act up because of boredom, trying to then instil discipline is futile.




Reading has been replaced by computer games for boys, for good or bad. They can teach some skills if written properly but for the most part are time wasters.

 Parents can't watch their children all the time, and if they try and regulate their children's activities they get accused of spying and interference. 

Good role models are needed both at home and in the places where children spend most of their time, at school.


----------



## Value Collector (9 December 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> Reading has been replaced by computer games for boys, for good or bad. They can teach some skills if written properly but for the most part are time wasters.
> 
> .




as a kid I played a lot of video games (and still do), I still found time for a lot of reading.

Enforced bedtime's are good for children, make sure they are in bed by a certain time, read to them when they are young to get them interested in stories, and they will read to themselves later, and let them know that they don't have to sleep at bed time, as long as they are in bed they can read their book as late as they want.



> Parents can't watch their children all the time, and if they try and regulate their children's activities they get accused of spying and interference.




let them do what ever they want after their home work is done, but at bed time, it's into bed with a good book, they can choose to sleep, or read, no TV's or computers in the bedroom.


----------



## Tisme (9 December 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> Reading has been replaced by computer games for boys, for good or bad. They can teach some skills if written properly but for the most part are time wasters.




We have to move with the times and gaming was big back in the seventies, but it's a nation within nations now.

When I was a lad my favourite book was Tales of Mystery and Imagination by Edgar Allen Poe. He used words bigger than "marmalade" and it expanded my vocabulary back to the early 19th century speak, which was not a good way to communicate in the later half of the 20th century when American industrial age monosyllabics, acronyms and metalanguage took over.

Somehow we continue to function, old people continue too complain about the work ethic of the young and we seem to be having a much better time of it than 50 years ago.


----------



## SirRumpole (9 December 2014)

Value Collector said:
			
		

> they can choose to sleep, or read, no TV's or computers in the bedroom.




That's a novel idea (pardon the expression). How much reading is done on graphics tablets these days ? Which can also be used for playing games. I'd like to see parents enforcing the reading bit.


----------



## moXJO (9 December 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> That's a novel idea (pardon the expression). How much reading is done on graphics tablets these days ? Which can also be used for playing games. I'd like to see parents enforcing the reading bit.



Am I the only one that prefers reading from books?
I feel like reading from tablets cheapens the experience and have trouble staying focused on the material. But then again, I was the cheap bastard that would read the amazon comments on books to get a condensed overview.


----------



## Tisme (9 December 2014)

moXJO said:


> Am I the only one that prefers reading from books?
> I feel like reading from tablets cheapens the experience and have trouble staying focused on the material. But then again, I was the cheap bastard that would read the amazon comments on books to get a condensed overview.




You can get the talking books and enjoy reading the words at the same time on your tablet.


----------



## SirRumpole (9 December 2014)

Tisme said:


> You can get the talking books and enjoy reading the words at the same time on your tablet.




Or, you can read on your tablet and then speak the words into your tablet which then translates your words back into text.


----------



## moXJO (9 December 2014)

I thought technology would save us more time 


> Nielsen says the printed book was the clear winner in terms of speed. Users were reading 6.2 percent slower on an iPad compared to paper, and 10.7 percent slower on the Kindle 2. Nielsen did not provide any statistics on the reading time for the PC monitor.








Tisme said:


> You can get the talking books and enjoy reading the words at the same time on your tablet.




Can I also connect to my smart TV and watch the movie.


----------



## bellenuit (9 December 2014)

> Nielsen says the printed book was the clear winner in terms of speed. Users were reading 6.2 percent slower on an iPad compared to paper, and 10.7 percent slower on the Kindle 2.




I think one would need to know how they measured the reading rate. For instance, if it were based on a lab test of several individuals reading the same text on different media then fair enough. If it were based on subjective reporting then one would need to know whether the tablet reading speed was "impaired" by interruptions of some sort. For instance, when I read a newspaper article on a tablet and come across a word I am not fully sure the meaning of, I will use the inbuilt *define* function to get its definition. This will slow down my reading speed, if measure purely against the article. Similarly, I might follow a hyperlink for more detailed information on a topic if the digital article supports it. These distractions, though positive for my comprehension, are not readily available on printed media so one is a less less likely to do them (get out a dictionary, for instance, to look up a word).

It could very well be that though typical usage suggests that one takes longer when reading the same content on digital media compared to print, the former may have the advantage of better comprehension.


----------



## Tisme (9 December 2014)

moXJO said:


> I thought technology would save us more time
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That you can and watch it anywhere in the house.


----------



## DB008 (27 January 2016)

Go to any country, respect their laws/culture/traditions, except the West. We have become too PC and a push over...

So, hypothetically, if l visited an Islamic country with my wife and if she were asked to wear a 'hijab', we would agree and do so out of respect for that country. Islam comes to the West...nope, we bend over backwards to their beliefs. What is the world coming to?

*Rome's nude statues covered to spare Rouhani's blushes​*


> As the visit to Europe of the Iranian President got underway on Monday, Italy showed its respect for Islamic traditions by covering up the Capitoline Museum's racier exhibits.
> 
> Hassan Rouhani visited the Capitoline Museums with premier Matteo Renzi, having signed contracts worth up to â‚¬17 billion ($18.4 billion) on Monday.
> 
> ...







http://www.thelocal.it/20160126/nude-statues-covered-up-for-rouhanis-visit​


----------



## SirRumpole (27 January 2016)

This is a fairly telling piece regarding how bad it's getting in Britain.

*Politically correct universities 'are killing free speech'*

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/educatio...ect-universities-are-killing-free-speech.html

When I was at uni it was basically anything goes. Sure people would demonstrate against things they didn't like, but they didn't cry into their knickers after getting offended, they offended back.



We are breeding a race of namby pambys.


----------



## CanOz (27 January 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> This is a fairly telling piece regarding how bad it's getting in Britain.
> 
> *Politically correct universities 'are killing free speech'*
> 
> ...




I don't think the Muslim's are too politically correct or give a flying rats bum about people that are


----------



## Tink (28 January 2016)

Yes, agree, Rumpole.
They seem to be coming from both directions trying to destroy what we have.
Or is it all the Greens.

Yet these people are happy to take on the scholarship, but want the statue removed.
I see 93% disagree with moving the statue.

I wasn't sure whether to post this in feminism or here, we have so many categories of late.
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29219&page=11&p=894095#post894095
*
In defence of gender........*

It’s dangerous and wrong to tell all children they’re ‘gender fluid’

_What started as a baffling skirmish on the wilder shores of victim culture has now turned into something more menacing_

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/0...ong-to-tell-all-children-theyre-gender-fluid/


----------



## Logique (28 January 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> This is a fairly telling piece regarding how bad it's getting in Britain....



Not just in Britain SirRumpole. The campus is a very Bolshie place these days.

There is a set of unassailable truths _which must be obeyed_.


----------



## pixel (11 May 2016)

... and the Poms have come under fire yet again :1zhelp:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-...-for-muslim-phrase-in-terror-exercise/7403196

During an anti-terror exercise, Cops shouted "Allahu akbar".
What do terrorists shout? Do they apologise afterwards? 
ffs - if you have a drill, make it as realistic as possible. The PC Brigade should be far more concerned that it's necessary to have such training exercises.


----------



## SirRumpole (25 November 2016)

There goes another of our cultural traditions. Pretty soon we'll be the poor multicultural trash of Asia.

Fremantle axes Australia Day celebrations for 'culturally-inclusive alternative'






> The City of Fremantle has axed its Australia Day festivities in favour of a "culturally-inclusive alternative" celebration two days later.
> 
> The council voted in January to can its Australia Day fireworks display and replace it with a new event, the details of which have now been released.
> 
> ...


----------



## McLovin (25 November 2016)

Ridiculous.


----------



## Ves (25 November 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> There goes another of our cultural traditions. Pretty soon we'll be the poor multicultural trash of Asia.
> 
> Fremantle axes Australia Day celebrations for 'culturally-inclusive alternative'



LOL,   Australia Day  (and all of the other National 'patriotic' days around the world) are of themselves political correctness any way.

Sounds to me that it's just resistance to change rather than a complaint with any real philosophical rigour.


----------



## SirRumpole (25 November 2016)

Ves said:


> LOL,   Australia Day  (and all of the other National 'patriotic' days around the world) are of themselves political correctness any way.
> 
> Sounds to me that it's just resistance to change rather than a complaint with any real philosophical rigour.




Well maybe we should celebrate Federation instead. Even then some would still say it's not "inclusive" enough, but that's rubbish. I wasn't around in 1901, but I can still recognise the importance of this day in the formation of the nation and I don't see why anyone of whatever culture would object to celebrating the formation of a democracy that welcomes people from around the world (as long as they come with our permission).


----------



## wayneL (25 November 2016)

Ves, you might want to brush up on your understanding of political correctness. 


National days have nothing to do with it


----------



## McLovin (25 November 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> Well maybe we should celebrate Federation instead. Even then some would still say it's not "inclusive" enough, but that's rubbish. I wasn't around in 1901, but I can still recognise the importance of this day in the formation of the nation and I don't see why anyone of whatever culture would object to celebrating the formation of a democracy that welcomes people from around the world (as long as they come with our permission).




Too hungover on Jan 1.


----------



## Ves (25 November 2016)

wayneL said:


> Ves, you might want to brush up on your understanding of political correctness.
> 
> 
> National days have nothing to do with it



Perhaps it's the wrong word.   But the only barrier of "celebrating" (and since the 80s that now means basically whatever you want) with everyone else on this day is that you agree we should have a day off work and pretend we're thinking about why it's so good to be an Australian whilst all most people is doing are getting pissed around the BBQ.  Doesn't exactly sound like an exclusive club to me.

The meaning of the day has become so diluted/corporatized/sanitised that it's hardly worth linking it with any real tradition any more  (and that happened long before multiculturalism was mentioned).


----------



## SirRumpole (25 November 2016)

McLovin said:


> Too hungover on Jan 1.




We'll make it Jan 2, just for you.


----------



## SirRumpole (25 November 2016)

Ves said:


> Perhaps it's the wrong word.   But the only barrier of "celebrating" (and since the 80s that now means basically whatever you want) with everyone else on this day is that you agree we should have a day off work and pretend we're thinking about why it's so good to be an Australian whilst all most people is doing are getting pissed around the BBQ.  Doesn't exactly sound like an exclusive club to me.
> 
> The meaning of the day has become so diluted/corporatized/sanitised that it's hardly worth linking it with any real tradition any more  (and that happened long before multiculturalism was mentioned).




Same for Xmas and Easter. But let the Muslims celebrate Ramadan because it's obviously so important to them that they do.


----------



## Ves (25 November 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> Same for Xmas and Easter. But let the Muslims celebrate Ramadan because it's obviously so important to them that they do.



Actually there's plenty of discussion re the changing nature of Ramadan in modern times too.   Plenty of die hard traditionalists in that sphere lament the direction it is going in.

It would appear the forces of globalism,   even if they have been much slower,  are affecting cultures outside of the West more and more as time passes.

On one hand it does mean that genuine change is possible,  but the form that this change takes is unpredictable.

I'd argue that it's capitalism rather than something denoted as "political correctness" that has driven much of the underlying structural changes.


----------



## Tisme (25 November 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> Same for Xmas and Easter. But let the Muslims celebrate Ramadan because it's obviously so important to them that they do.




I fly the flag on my masthead for Oz Day. I picture Jesus nailed to the cross at the insistence of his Jew cobbers and I remember the life of Brian and his birthday 25th Dec .


----------



## noco (30 December 2016)

How sick is this Labor MP Kate Ellis wishing everyone a happy holiday instead of a Merry Xmas....

Political correctness gone mad.

There was also comment about her TV.

Totally agree with this man !!!  



great response from this man.... thanks for the forward.. I am sending it on too...












*Subject:* *Fwd: Christmas.*



I have just received a ‘Happy Holiday’ card from my local Labor MP. (Australia)

I decided to write a short letter to her.

If you agree with it please pass it on to others.


_Labor MP Kate Ellis_

_Dear Ms Ellis,_



_I have just received your ‘Happy Holiday’ card._

_If you are too spineless to even mention the word *‘Christmas’*, then don’t bother to send me a card._

_I can only assume that you believe that the 25th December must celebrate the birth of a holiday._

_Does it not occur to you that your pathetic attempt to avoid offence has possibly offended even more people, including myself._

*Christmas*_, (yes that word again) is an integral part of who we are as a Western nation._

_It was not Aboriginal, Islamic, or an Asian culture that gave us our democratic Westminster system of government, a civilised rule of law, or freedom of speech._

_It was the *Anglo-Celtic* *Christian culture*._

_When or if you one day summon the courage to peer through the politically-correct fog you may finally realise the damage that the thought police are doing all over the Western world._

_Politically-correct robots like yourself demand that we must worship the religion of multicultural diversity above all else._

_That diversity apparently includes all cultures and religions except our own._

_Our culture is continually sneered at and treated with the same contempt that you have displayed, to be diluted and hidden like an embarrassing disease.  _

_You have lost my vote for all time and I will urge others at every opportunity to do likewise._



_Man up to defend Western culture before it is too late. _


----------



## OmegaTrader (30 December 2016)

apparently dec27 is a public holiday but no one can tell me what the holiday is....


----------



## bellenuit (31 December 2016)

OmegaTrader said:


> apparently dec27 is a public holiday but no one can tell me what the holiday is....




It wasn't here in WA.


----------



## OmegaTrader (31 December 2016)

bellenuit said:


> It wasn't here in WA.



ahh I am WA

exactly my sentiment

Post office closed....
Other shops closed due to public holiday
Bus timetable on public holiday timetable times...


----------



## pixel (31 December 2016)

OmegaTrader said:


> apparently dec27 is a public holiday but no one can tell me what the holiday is....



It's Christmas, of course!
All over Australia, the rule says, if a movable holiday falls on a weekend, then it's moved to the day AFTER. Easter is not movable, so that rule doesn't apply. But Christmas moved from Sunday to Tuesday this year because Monday was already taken by Boxing Day.
Apply the same logic to New Year, and you know why Monday, the 2nd of January, is turning into New Year's Holiday.
And yes, it's the same here in WA.


----------



## OmegaTrader (31 December 2016)

pixel said:


> It's Christmas, of course!
> All over Australia, the rule says, if a movable holiday falls on a weekend, then it's moved to the day AFTER. Easter is not movable, so that rule doesn't apply. But Christmas moved from Sunday to Tuesday this year because Monday was already taken by Boxing Day.
> Apply the same logic to New Year, and you know why Monday, the 2nd of January, is turning into New Year's Holiday.
> And yes, it's the same here in WA.




wtf is all I can say.


----------



## Tink (31 December 2016)

All run on our Christian calendar, including New Year.

Go back 2016 years and it becomes BC - Before Christ.


----------



## Tisme (31 December 2016)

Tink said:


> All run on our Christian calendar, including New Year.
> 
> Go back 2016 years and it becomes BC - Before Christ




Yes and no Tink. It becomes BCE and Jesus would have been around 2 years old and an Aries.


----------



## dutchie (31 December 2016)

noco said:


> How sick is this Labor MP Kate Ellis wishing everyone a happy holiday instead of a Merry Xmas....
> 
> Political correctness gone mad.
> 
> ...




Nicely put. Kate Ellis is a wanker like many of her fellow politicians (on all sides).

Sick of the PC culture.


----------



## McLovin (31 December 2016)

noco said:


> How sick is this Labor MP Kate Ellis wishing everyone a happy holiday instead of a Merry Xmas....




Why don't you fact check this BS before you post it?



> Given I am currently spending far too much of my time responding to abusive emails about the Christmas card I sent to local residents, I thought I might just share some facts here.
> 
> This whole situation is utterly ridiculous.
> 
> ...


----------



## noco (31 December 2016)

McLovin said:


> Why don't you fact check this BS before you post it?



Knowing how the Labor Party operate, they most likely went to damage control and came up with a counter to make it look good......Fact check is controlled by the ABC which is a socialist organization and controlled by the Green/Labor coalition..


----------



## McLovin (31 December 2016)

This is what passes as outrageous in 2016. 

Looks like she really wanted to put the boot into Christmas.


----------



## McLovin (31 December 2016)

noco said:


> Fact check is controlled by the ABC which is a socialist organization and controlled by the Green/Labor coalition..




Do you know how to use Google? Fact check it yourself rather than just believing what some half-wit posts on Facebook.


----------



## PZ99 (31 December 2016)

From what I've read, it came out around 9th Dec and clearly was aimed at kids prior to school holidays.

How it took 3 weeks to get here is anyone's guess. But chain emails have a track record of fact changing as they travel


----------



## noco (31 December 2016)

McLovin said:


> Do you know how to use Google? Fact check it yourself rather than just believing what some half-wit posts on Facebook.




From Goggle.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/factcheck/

*ABC Fact Check has been checking claims made by politicians and public figures since the lead-up to the last election.*


----------



## McLovin (31 December 2016)

noco said:


> From Goggle.
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/factcheck/
> 
> *ABC Fact Check has been checking claims made by politicians and public figures since the lead-up to the last election.*




Thanks for the non sequitur. I didn't question who ran Fact Check, in fact I never even mentioned the service. I said when you get an email or see something on FB, fact check (note the lower case) it  before you post it here.

If you really believe that that Christmas card is meant to denigrate Christmas in any way, then I think you may have drunk a bit too much of Santa's brandy.


----------



## SirRumpole (31 December 2016)

noco said:


> From Goggle.
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/factcheck/
> 
> *ABC Fact Check has been checking claims made by politicians and public figures since the lead-up to the last election.*




ABC Fact Check has now been discontinued. Mal didn't like the truth apparently.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (31 December 2016)

PC is dead mates. Read the Guardian. Even they are eschewing it.


----------



## noco (31 December 2016)

McLovin said:


> Thanks for the non sequitur. I didn't question who ran Fact Check, in fact I never even mentioned the service. I said when you get an email or see something on FB, fact check (note the lower case) it  before you post it here.
> 
> If you really believe that that Christmas card is meant to denigrate Christmas in any way, then I think you may have drunk a bit too much of Santa's brandy.




Well, I noted it on Sky News so according to you Sky news must be wrong also...The Labor Party are wizards at covering up.


----------



## McLovin (1 January 2017)

noco said:


> Well, I noted it on Sky News so according to you Sky news must be wrong also...The Labor Party are wizards at covering up.




You noted what on Sky News? That she sent a Christmas card and a few punters with too much time on their hands had a whinge.

Do you think the Christmas card  is "political correctness going too far"?


----------



## noco (1 January 2017)

McLovin said:


> You noted what on Sky News? That she sent a Christmas card and a few punters with too much time on their hands had a whinge.
> 
> Do you think the Christmas card  is "political correctness going too far"?




It depends on the original wording of the card and if damage control came into play  to rectify it after the cat was out of the bag.


----------



## McLovin (1 January 2017)

noco said:


> It depends on the original wording of the card and if damage control came into play  to rectify it after the cat was out of the bag.




The original card is right there at the top of this page. I pulled it off Facebook from some idiot having a whinge about Happy Holidays. So is it, or isn't it?


----------



## PZ99 (1 January 2017)

This is one boofhead who claims to have complained about the card. > http://morningmail.org/surveys-say-australians-dont-like-muslim-heres-clue/#comment-33947



DB8tr 08/12/2016 said:


> _How dumb are left- centrist- left politicians? That’s an understatement. Received a ‘Happy Holidays’ card from the socialist Kate Ellis so I decided to write and tell her how ‘offended’ I was by her PC religion. And tell her many other home truths. Said that when I go on holidays she can send me a card then. Amazingly she wrote back and said there were four mentions of Christmas on her card. Went back and had a look and there weee 12 drawings by kids on the back and out of the 12 in 2.1 font were the tiny worlds ‘Christmas’ on 4. Needed a microscope to see it and of course the other 8 were by every kind of ‘specialty group’. Point is Happy Holidays was in 32 point font everywhere. What audacity! They really take us for idiots!!!_



The reason he got taken for an idiot is because he was an idiot. Only an idiot would use a vexatious complaint to start an online circle-jerk aimed at conning blind faithers on the right.

Notice the site: Australian morning mail - "Conservative - independent - patriotic" (where you get to see a cockatoo  )

Ironically, on that same website they posted this only yesterday...





Hilarious!


----------



## noco (1 January 2017)

McLovin said:


> The original card is right there at the top of this page. I pulled it off Facebook from some idiot having a whinge about Happy Holidays. So is it, or isn't it?



So why was the emphasis placed on HAPPY HOLIDAYS and not Merry Xmas....Very crafty left wing tactic....Kate Ellis is a Fabian so therefore she would be an atheist and they would do anything to remove religion from our society.


----------



## McLovin (1 January 2017)

noco said:


> So why was the emphasis placed on HAPPY HOLIDAYS and not Merry Xmas....Very crafty left wing tactic....Kate Ellis is a Fabian so therefore she would be an atheist and they would do anything to remove religion from our society.




So we've gone from she left Merry Christmas off the card, to now she didn't emphasise it enough for your liking. You are hilarious. Just check **** before you post it. Then _you _wont have to go into damage control.

How was midnight mass?


----------



## SirRumpole (1 January 2017)

noco said:


> So why was the emphasis placed on HAPPY HOLIDAYS and not Merry Xmas....Very crafty left wing tactic....Kate Ellis is a Fabian so therefore she would be an atheist and they would do anything to remove religion from our society.





Funny, I didn't think you were a religious person. I would quite happily remove religion from society if it meant getting rid of Islam too.


----------



## Tisme (1 January 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Funny, I didn't think you were a religious person. I would quite happily remove religion from society if it meant getting rid of Islam too.




I'm wondering how Jesus would be feeling having his surname replaced by an "X" . What do you think R?


----------



## luutzu (1 January 2017)

Tisme said:


> I'm wondering how Jesus would be feeling having his surname replaced by an "X" . What do you think R?




He probably wouldn't like it that the Roman crucifixion cross came to symbolise his church. Hard to tell if it's to symbolise his sacrifice or as a warning to non believers and savages.


----------



## McLovin (1 January 2017)

Tisme said:


> I'm wondering how Jesus would be feeling having his surname replaced by an "X" . What do you think R?




How about jolly old St Nick being given a *red *makeover by Coca-Cola


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## noco (1 January 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Funny, I didn't think you were a religious person. I would quite happily remove religion from society if it meant getting rid of Islam too.




Rumpy I may not be religious but my wife is and I respect the Australian tradition to celebrate Xmas and the kids who enjoy it.

Islam is more political than religious and they do not fit into our society...Muslims are completely opposed to our way of life as everyone knows how they have behaved since arriving here and or born here....They will not assimilate and they do not accept our laws and way of life...They are striving for their own Sharia laws.


----------



## SirRumpole (1 January 2017)

Tisme said:


> I'm wondering how Jesus would be feeling having his surname replaced by an "X" . What do you think R?




He would not be amused.


----------



## moXJO (1 January 2017)

Has "Happy Holidays" always been used over Christmas or is it relatively new?
I never paid attention that much.


----------



## pixel (1 January 2017)

moXJO said:


> Has "Happy Holidays" always been used over Christmas or is it relatively new?
> I never paid attention that much.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_controversy
It seems that the current trend of avoiding "Christmas" has originated from the US, where the big shopping centres may prefer jingling cash registers than Jingle Bells and references to Christian origins. 
IMHO, it doesn't make sense to replace the original name in a country that still pretends to uphold its Western Tradition, whether one believes in Legends or not. 

Ironic, isn't it, that the USofA has been opposing the Soviet Union and her ideology, but adopted one of militant Marxism's crassest antitheses to Christianity.


----------



## noco (1 January 2017)

pixel said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_controversy
> It seems that the current trend of avoiding "Christmas" has originated from the US, where the big shopping centres may prefer jingling cash registers than Jingle Bells and references to Christian origins.
> IMHO, it doesn't make sense to replace the original name in a country that still pretends to uphold its Western Tradition, whether one believes in Legends or not.
> 
> Ironic, isn't it, that the USofA has been opposing the Soviet Union and her ideology, but adopted one of militant Marxism's crassest antitheses to Christianity.


----------



## noco (1 January 2017)

That all happened in the 8 years of Obama.


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## McLovin (1 January 2017)

pixel said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_controversy
> It seems that the current trend of avoiding "Christmas" has originated from the US, where the big shopping centres may prefer jingling cash registers than Jingle Bells and references to Christian origins.
> IMHO, it doesn't make sense to replace the original name in a country that still pretends to uphold its Western Tradition, whether one believes in Legends or not.
> 
> Ironic, isn't it, that the USofA has been opposing the Soviet Union and her ideology, but adopted one of militant Marxism's crassest antitheses to Christianity.




Well the US Constitution prohibits the federal government from observing religious holidays, however the US Supreme Court has ruled that Christmas is a secular celebration so it's a federal public holiday – unlike Easter.

Most Australians are not celebrating the birth of Christ on Christmas, even the ones who get their panties in a knot over which words are used.


----------



## McLovin (1 January 2017)

noco said:


> That all happened in the 8 years of Obama.




Lol. Of course it did.


----------



## Tink (1 January 2017)

No wonder Trump got in, with a big -- MERRY CHRISTMAS -- on stage.

Hopefully he can transform the country back to its origins.


----------



## luutzu (1 January 2017)

Tink said:


> No wonder Trump got in, with a big -- MERRY CHRISTMAS -- on stage.
> 
> Hopefully he can transform the country back to its origins.




You do know that Trump got three wives (and a whole lot of grabbing and sexual assaults along the way) right? 

You used to have to start your own church to do that kind of stuff.


----------



## McLovin (1 January 2017)

Tink said:


> Hopefully he can transform the country back to its origins.




Slavery? Anti-Catholicism? Careful what you wish for, you might not make the cut.


----------



## luutzu (1 January 2017)

McLovin said:


> Slavery?




No no... just after all the bad stuff; and also before all the bad stuff.


----------



## noco (1 January 2017)

McLovin said:


> Slavery? Anti-Catholicism?



OMG..you are desperate to come at that old caper....Mate, this 2017 FFS.


----------



## noco (1 January 2017)

luutzu said:


> You do know that Trump got three wives (and a whole lot of grabbing and sexual assaults along the way) right?
> 
> You used to have to start your own church to do that kind of stuff.




You mean he had 3 wives...So what?....Lots of men have had more but only one at a time unlike the Muslims who have 3 and 4 wives at the same time.


----------



## McLovin (1 January 2017)

noco said:


> OMG..you are desperate to come at that old caper....Mate, this 2017 FFS.




The country was founded by protestant, slave owners. Was it not? That is its origins. But you're right, it's 2017. Maybe, just maybe, we don't need to go back to the 18th century.


----------



## luutzu (1 January 2017)

noco said:


> OMG..you are desperate to come at that old caper....Mate, this 2017 FFS.




Probably somewhere before 9/11 when Muslims weren't all terrorist.


----------



## luutzu (1 January 2017)

noco said:


> You mean he had 3 wives...So what?....Lots of men have had more but only one at a time unlike the Muslims who have 3 and 4 wives at the same time.




Yes, bad English. ESL graduate here noco 

He has 3 wives in total; divorced the first two once they got too old. I'm only guessing that since he tend to remarry younger ones.

But overall, Trump is all about family value. Simply because he wish everyone a Merry Christmas instead of Happy Holy-Days.

I don't know any Muslim in Australia having 3 or 4 wives. Maybe it's the thing to do back in their country. Not here. Can't afford it I'm guessing.

btw I know a guy who have two wives at the same time. The wives are blood sisters and they both share the same house. I always thought the guy was cool for some reason.


----------



## McLovin (1 January 2017)

luutzu said:


> He has 3 wives in total; divorced the first two once they got too old. I'm only guessing that since he tend to remarry younger ones.




According to his first wife, he told her after she'd had kids that he couldn't be attracted to a woman who has had children. Real family values there. But like you say, as long as he brings back "Merry Christmas" all is well.

I guess to be fair the Founding Fathers were off getting their slaves pregnant, so at least he sticks to his own colour.


----------



## noco (1 January 2017)

luutzu said:


> Yes, bad English. ESL graduate here noco
> 
> He has 3 wives in total; divorced the first two once they got too old. I'm only guessing that since he tend to remarry younger ones.
> 
> ...




How could he possibly have 3 wives?...That is bigamy......He HAD 3 wives...Bigamy is a crime in the USA as in Australia.....Your English is wrong.

Geez Luu, you don't seem to observe the news in the paper and on TV...There has been a lot of mention
about it.


----------



## noco (1 January 2017)

luutzu said:


> Yes, bad English. ESL graduate here noco
> 
> He has 3 wives in total; divorced the first two once they got too old. I'm only guessing that since he tend to remarry younger ones.
> 
> ...




Luu. hope this may convince you that Muslim men in Australia have more than one wife and are receiving welfare benefits for each one plus all the kids they have.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...s/news-story/35f49d0c38789e22e133d00c67e55899


----------



## Tisme (2 January 2017)

pixel said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_controversy
> It seems that the current trend of avoiding "Christmas" has originated from the US, where the big shopping centres may prefer jingling cash registers than Jingle Bells and references to Christian origins.
> IMHO, it doesn't make sense to replace the original name in a country that still pretends to uphold its Western Tradition, whether one believes in Legends or not.
> 
> Ironic, isn't it, that the USofA has been opposing the Soviet Union and her ideology, but adopted one of militant Marxism's crassest antitheses to Christianity.





US has always been a racist country that masquerades as a multicultural group hug. Appeasement costs little in the scheme of things over there... they whiney about everything anyway, especially Texans on Democrats


----------



## luutzu (2 January 2017)

noco said:


> Luu. hope this may convince you that Muslim men in Australia have more than one wife and are receiving welfare benefits for each one plus all the kids they have.
> 
> http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...s/news-story/35f49d0c38789e22e133d00c67e55899




That's Premium content there noco. I tend not to like news I have to pay to get to 

But noco, you've been around long enough to know that all men want multiple wives - so it's not an Islamic thing - but only those with good looks and a big bank account can get them... well they'll just want one wive and a few mistresses. What idiot would want to have kids with all the women they bed?

As to The Donald... I thought I did say "all together" he has three wives. Currently married to one very handsome lady, divorced two previous ones when they reached the Donald's expiry age.

Look at his sons ey. Aren't they the puffier, weak-chinned versions of Christian Bale's American Psycho? I thought his daughter is alright looking... she seems a whole lot smarter than the other Rich Kids interviewed in that doco too. No wonder The Donald want her to take the First Lady's Office once he takes the White House.

Man, this is a way too much like Rome under the Caesars.


----------



## Tink (2 January 2017)

McLovin, once you start with this Protestant slave owner rubbish, I am not listening.

Yes, he was ONE of the Founding Fathers of the US Constitution, would be enough.

It is the same as the ones that wanted Rhodes gone, but happy to take on the scholarship, imv.


----------



## McLovin (2 January 2017)

Tink said:


> McLovin, once you start with this Protestant slave owner rubbish, I am not listening.
> 
> Yes, he was ONE of the Founding Fathers of the US Constitution, would be enough.
> 
> It is the same as the ones that wanted Rhodes gone, but happy to take on the scholarship, imv.




Half of them owned slaves. Of the over 200 signatories, seven were Catholic (rest assured there were no Jews or Muslims). Protestant, slave owners seems pretty apt.

It's no accident of history that it took almost 200 years for the United States to elect a Catholic as President. If you want to get misty eyed over sectarianism, go for your life. It seems odd for a Catholic to want to go back to an era when you faced so much discrimination.


----------



## orr (2 January 2017)

BatonRouge july 2016.
yeah it's 2017; no carry over from the slave past here....


----------



## Tisme (2 January 2017)

McLovin said:


> Half of them owned slaves. Of the over 200 signatories, seven were Catholic (rest assured there were no Jews or Muslims). Protestant, slave owners seems pretty apt.
> 
> It's no accident of history that it took almost 200 years for the United States to elect a Catholic as President. If you want to get misty eyed over sectarianism, go for your life. It seems odd for a Catholic to want to go back to an era when you faced so much discrimination.




 I'm not too sure what it is you have an issue with? Muslims were and still are the wholesalers of slaves, the Moors were famous slavers and the Spanish Catholics followed suit, Spanish and Portuguese take over of the New World saw massive slavery of the locals and imported Africans.


----------



## McLovin (3 January 2017)

Tisme said:


> I'm not too sure what it is you have an issue with?




That Donald Trump will "transform America back to its origins". As though everything that has happened since 1776 was a step backwards. America wasn't beer and skittles back then, unless you were a WASP.

I guess if it means Macy's puts "Merry Christmas" in its display windows then there's no too high a price.


----------



## Tisme (3 January 2017)

McLovin said:


> That Donald Trump will "transform America back to its origins". As though everything that has happened since 1776 was a step backwards. America wasn't beer and skittles back then, unless you were a WASP.
> 
> I guess if it means Macy's puts "Merry Christmas" in its display windows then there's no too high a price.




I doubt the WASPs you refer were in plentiful supply, even in the land of superman and opportunity. Careful examination will probably debunk many myths, but there is truth in Catholics being pinged in public office, because of their conflict of interest between spiritual masters and national masters .... the protestants weren't going to give away the freedoms they won with bloody revolution after one and a half thousand years of repressive unyielding superstition ...... commoners like you and me couldn't get a ticket to the catholic churches until the counter- reformation of the Catholic Church recognised the protestants were actually onto something Christian.


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## Tink (3 January 2017)

Thanks for your reply, McLovin, on the Christian origins of the US Constitution, and their Founding Fathers who set up that country on
Life and Liberty etc

As I have said about our own country, our Christian heritage is our foundations.
Sadly, nothing has been taught about our History in the public education department, but thankfully, ASF keeps people updated.

Just as they established the separation of Church and State, so did we.
And part of this separation, was to avoid tyranny, that the State would not impose on the people.
Small governments.

This was about Christmas, and its Christian origins, which was pointed out that it now no longer has its Christian heritage that the Founding Fathers established.

Just my views.


----------



## luutzu (3 January 2017)

Tink said:


> Thanks for your reply, McLovin, on the Christian origins of the US Constitution, and their Founding Fathers who set up that country on
> Life and Liberty etc
> 
> As I have said about our own country, our Christian heritage is our foundations.
> ...




But if the Church was separated from the State at its founding, how does all the awesomeness that follow be due to the Church? It was separated. Its power and influence castrated. It was cast aside.

Not sure why the Church would want credit for what comes after the founding of the US, Australia and other "New World" in South America, Africa and other continents.

The kind of genocidal, imperial expansion that spread there make ISIS look like a bunch of murderous thugs with a couple of utes.

Even when peace came, you'd still not want to be involve in those policies. What with the Lost Generation in Australia; women's non-rights and being the property of their father or husband; slave being worth 2/3rd the White...

Seems the good old days were only good for the privileged White plantation owners. That's the same as today.


----------



## Tisme (3 January 2017)

luutzu said:


> But if the Church was separated from the State at its founding, how does all the awesomeness that follow be due to the Church? It was separated. Its power and influence castrated. It was cast aside.




 Because there is a distinction between state political and individual spiritually ethical persuasions. It is an undeniable truth that British Christianity in it's matured state in the 1700s was the catalyst for the US desire for freedoms it has tried to engender in its and consequently the Australian political agenda. British Christianity is Anglican (Evangelical in the US), Roman Catholic, Presbyterian, etc that all took a different separation of state and spiritual path than Europe after the regicidal and brutally anti catholic rule of Oliver Cromwell. The people who constructed the US and Australian constitution were ethically washed in Christianity.


----------



## luutzu (3 January 2017)

Tisme said:


> Because there is a distinction between state political and individual spiritually ethical persuasions. It is an undeniable truth that British Christianity in it's matured state in the 1700s was the catalyst for the US desire for freedoms it has tried to engender in its and consequently the Australian political agenda. British Christianity is Anglican (Evangelical in the US), Roman Catholic, Presbyterian, etc that all took a different separation of state and spiritual path than Europe after the regicidal and brutally anti catholic rule of Oliver Cromwell. The people who constructed the US and Australian constitution were ethically washed in Christianity.




OK. So when did the good work of the Church stop and the nasty business of imperialism begin?

Can't really just claim the good bits but blame the bad bits on a few bad actors. Can we?

Seeing how the Egyptians, Greeks, Persians, Romans... have all done Empire pretty well before Christ was immaculately conceived. Maybe Christianity is just another tool great men of destiny uses to control and conquer.

Maybe all these "PC" about Happy Holidays instead of Happy Jesus' Birthday has all to do with merchants and creative capitalists figuring that they can sell more stuff if the other 6/7th of the world's population got into the act of celebrating peace and giving, lots and lots of (buying and) giving.


----------



## Tisme (3 January 2017)

luutzu said:


> OK. So when did the good work of the Church stop and the nasty business of imperialism begin?
> 
> Can't really just claim the good bits but blame the bad bits on a few bad actors. Can we?
> 
> ...




 Sir John Hawkins started the Brits into the slave trade, which ended up a monopoly venture, supplying all the other european empire colonies in the New World.

The British started the protest against slavery in the 1770's, which obviously caused the American Colonists to have conniptions. The South Carolina rice plantation owners went into overdrive and enlisted the Royal Courts of Russia and France to give impetus to a quick secession, things like the Boston Tea party were symptoms of mass hysteria whipped up by the wealthy slavers. The British Empire made laws forbidding Britons to participate in slave trading in 1807 and outlawed it in the Emancipation Act of 1833.

I don't know of many Empires that would equal the British one and I'm not too sure any of the others had the social conscience to invent an unstoppable industrial revolution, encourage science and innovation without religious interference, emancipate slaves, empower and universally educate the working class, give rule of law and parliament to the world.

You seem to fixate on a 400 year seemingly brutality that by comparison to their contemporary European counterparts was sublime and by any measure was far less barbarian than the cultures they subdued. You only have to look at how the Islamic thugs behave to get a glimpse of primitives who need civilising. Romanticising of cultures only a few generations back as somehow benign and benevolent being victimised by whitey are fanciful by any measure.... it wasn't that long ago that our Christian educated Australians freed the sub continent from Japanese warlords who enjoyed the genocide of Chinese cities and the brutal enslavement and indiscriminate mass killing and torture of SE Asian peasants, far worse than the dick4ea9 French.


----------



## luutzu (3 January 2017)

Tisme said:


> Sir John Hawkins started the Brits into the slave trade, which ended up a monopoly venture, supplying all the other european empire colonies in the New World.
> 
> The British started the protest against slavery in the 1770's, which obviously caused the American Colonists to have conniptions. The South Carolina rice plantation owners went into overdrive and enlisted the Royal Courts of Russia and France to give impetus to a quick secession, things like the Boston Tea party were symptoms of mass hysteria whipped up by the wealthy slavers. The British Empire made laws forbidding Britons to participate in slave trading in 1807 and outlawed it in the Emancipation Act of 1833.
> 
> ...





A bit too early in the year for this kind of rationalisation isn't it Captain Arthur McGee? Shouldn't we save these for Australia Day, or the Queen's Birthday perhaps?

The problems with Empires are not so much its "peace" years, it's the years of slaughter preceding those years of peace and harvesting.

So take what you said above... Hawkins started the British slave trade, monopolises it and a few years later British imperial civility banned its trade in 1807 then outlawed it in 1833. 

Oh look, the American Revolution kicked the Brits out by 1783, Napoleon and his French Empire was mucking around ruining British interests; and look, the Industrial Revolution kinda pick up around the early 1800s too.

A few happy coincidences of kindness and humanity that also serve Britain's own industries while weakening those of their former colonies and peer rival. 


I thought genocide is genocide. How does one do it more nicely? Less barbaric-ly? 

Does driving them into the desert and let nature deal with them more civilised than, say, gas them or bury them alive in mass graves? Does killing the buffaloes that is their main source of food, shelter and industry more enlightened than having to send out the cavalry to take them on?

So the Nazi didn't see their warmongering as peace-keeping? Imperial Japan didn't see them butchering cities and starving the colonies as sacrifices to be made so that all of Asia can rise to more enlightened position within a unified empire?

As to the British empire... Alexander's was quite nice to his conquered territories. All he did was renamed their cities, give a standard rule of law and set up a few governors. Other than that, the country can just bury its dead and carry on as normal.

Same with Genghis Khan and its various Khannates all over the place. Same with Napoleon and his Civil Code... did you know his need for a secured source of supplies led to canned food we all enjoy today?

Or take Chin'a first emperor. All he did was slaughter a about 7 other states nearby; standardise the legal code, dress code, language, money and systems of trades and administration... then they all became one big happy family of Chin when the Han took over and further pacify the nearby barbarians.


----------



## Tisme (3 January 2017)

luutzu said:


> A bit too early in the year for this kind of rationalisation isn't it Captain Arthur McGee? Shouldn't we save these for Australia Day, or the Queen's Birthday perhaps?




I just need to know pragmatism is winning out over revisionist histories. Don't want you going all radicalised and carphologistic.


----------



## luutzu (3 January 2017)

Tisme said:


> I just need to know pragmatism is winning out over revisionist histories. Don't want you going all radicalised and carphologistic.




What's "carphologistic". I think you just broke my google 

Don't worry about me. I watch way too many YouTube to listen to any idiot warrior king and their wannabes. Might even step up to save Australia one day... now where's that cape icon ... wait, that could be mistaken for them masked idiots.... here go armchair warrior


----------



## pixel (5 January 2017)

noco said:


> So why was the emphasis placed on HAPPY HOLIDAYS and not Merry Xmas....Very crafty left wing tactic....Kate Ellis is a Fabian so therefore she would be an atheist and they would do anything to remove religion from our society.



You're clutching at straws, noco;
"She is a Fabian, so she must be an atheist and do her worst to harm religious people."
Turn it around to describe the nazi that started the kerfuffle, and it becomes
"He pretends to be a Christian, so he hates everybody not paying lip service to his ideas and tries his worst to find excuses for splashing mud." *What a true Christian attitude! 

PS: Some well-meaning, but gullible friend of mine fell for the fake as well and forwarded the hate email to me today. Proves how easily simple folks can be hoodwinked and made to believe absolute BS. Yet it's so easy to get to the truth. All it takes is a healthy dose of skepticism and asking yourself "Who might have an interest in spreading this piece of manure?" When in doubt, Google!*


----------



## noco (5 January 2017)

pixel said:


> You're clutching at straws, noco;
> "She is a Fabian, so she must be an atheist and do her worst to harm religious people."
> Turn it around to describe the nazi that started the kerfuffle, and it becomes
> "He pretends to be a Christian, so he hates everybody not paying lip service to his ideas and tries his worst to find excuses for splashing mud." *What a true Christian attitude!
> ...



I guess you would have been hoodwinked with Labor's MEDISCARE like a lot of other gullible people.


----------



## SirRumpole (5 January 2017)

noco said:


> I guess you would have been hoodwinked with Labor's MEDISCARE like a lot of other gullible people.





When out pointed, try the diversionary tactic.


----------



## noco (5 January 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> When out pointed, try the diversionary tactic.




I learned that one from you Rumpy....You are a past master at that caper.


----------



## moXJO (5 January 2017)

PC did go too far, now we have nationalism breeding as a result of pushing people to the edges of the spectrum.
The world is a bit of a tinder box of hatred right now.
 Russia's ultra right basically has Nazis attacking and killing immigrants. They have no qualms in pushing the "white is right" motto.
The Russian people fanatically love Putin, with that shade of Hitler feel.

Philippines leader is a certified nutball murdering junkies, drug dealers and anyone that gets in the way. Also decided to join in on Russian military exercises.

American's have the "alt" right gaining momentum. With a trump win- the worst the right has to offer has crawled emboldened from under their rocks.

And here we have the idiotic 'one nation' trying to form coherent and offensive sentences,   but nevertheless gaining momentum in parliament. 
I didn't even mention China, Europe or the middle East.

The left and right moderates will need to come together in the center. The extremes on either side seems to be filling to fast. Better Governing from our PM is a must.


----------



## noco (5 January 2017)

moXJO said:


> PC did go too far, now we have nationalism breeding as a result of pushing people to the edges of the spectrum.
> The world is a bit of a tinder box of hatred right now.
> Russia's ultra right basically has Nazis attacking and killing immigrants. They have no qualms in pushing the "white is right" motto.
> The Russian people fanatically love Putin, with that shade of Hitler feel.
> ...




If the two major parties won't listen to what many people are thinking and you have a party that will, then so be it if the major parties suffer....It is called people power and there is a political revolution on the way.

If Turnbull tore up the Paris agreement, stopped the immigration of any more Muslims, deported the radical and extremist Muslims, cut back on Muslim welfare  and took a stand on the excessive use of renewable energy, his popularity would rise over night......Over the past few years with modern communications the media are controlling the way politicians think and act.

They are gutless and always fearing popularity back lash from the media who are quick to criticize and ridicule any decisions that are made.


----------



## luutzu (6 January 2017)

noco said:


> If the two major parties won't listen to what many people are thinking and you have a party that will, then so be it if the major parties suffer....It is called people power and there is a political revolution on the way.
> 
> If Turnbull tore up the Paris agreement, stopped the immigration of any more Muslims, deported the radical and extremist Muslims, cut back on Muslim welfare  and took a stand on the excessive use of renewable energy, his popularity would rise over night......Over the past few years with modern communications the media are controlling the way politicians think and act.
> 
> They are gutless and always fearing popularity back lash from the media who are quick to criticize and ridicule any decisions that are made.




I don't know what type of people you hang out with noco, but I'm not sure how anyone could benefit if any of that short-list of the wishlist is carried out.

The Media don't control the politicians, they disseminate politician's messages. Politicians take their orders from those who own the country. And so far, Muslims rorting of Welfare can only afford them to buy about maybe 10% of our dear leaders and people's champions. The other owners include the Chinese and Asians, then maybe the Irish.


----------



## moXJO (6 January 2017)

noco said:


> If the two major parties won't listen to what many people are thinking and you have a party that will, then so be it if the major parties suffer....It is called people power and there is a political revolution on the way.



Just be careful with the one nation mob. Pauline is having a hard time keeping a lid on her crackpot senators. They are looking after their own self interests and throwing party policy out the window. What you think you will get with Pauline will change under her senators. 
They crack after the slightest  bit of trolling as well.


----------



## Tisme (6 January 2017)

noco said:


> They are gutless and always fearing popularity back lash from the media who are quick to criticize and ridicule any decisions that are made.




Interesting how even the LNP media has started rumblings about the need for a Paul Keating; I guess they are bored with the current pipe and slippers leader too:



As  laced with arsenic that his speeches were he could also give credit when credit was due:


----------



## Tisme (6 January 2017)

moXJO said:


> Just be careful with the one nation mob. Pauline is having a hard time keeping a lid on her crackpot senators. They are looking after their own self interests and throwing party policy out the window. What you think you will get with Pauline will change under her senators.
> They crack after the slightest  bit of trolling as well.





I make a point of following the political leaders/elite on twitter. Pauline is consistent in her message and desire for her mother's generation's values, as hurtful as that is for all the mice that have roared behind the shield of  vilification laws and state enforced tolerance of dickh3ads.


----------



## moXJO (6 January 2017)

Tisme said:


> I make a point of following the political leaders/elite on twitter. Pauline is consistent in her message and desire for her mother's generation's values, as hurtful as that is for all the mice that have roared behind the shield of  vilification laws and state enforced tolerance of dickh3ads.



It's the other members of her party. They don't know- or follow party policy. They then attempt to hijack the show. Culleton isn't the only one driven by ego in the party. Culleton should never have been chosen in the first place. He ripped off farmers for millions, nothing but a con man.
She needs to choose better candidates or the party will disintegrate.


----------



## Tink (6 January 2017)

Luutzu, I have put this up before --

Our foundations is how a country is established, our laws etc.

_Western culture, throughout most of its history, has been nearly equivalent to Christian culture, and many of the population of the Western hemisphere could broadly be described as cultural Christians. The notion of "Europe" and the "Western World" has been intimately connected with the concept of "Christianity and Christendom" many even attribute Christianity for being the link that created a unified European identity._

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_culture

In saying that, I don't care what you believe in.

I do stand up for what I think is important, and thankfully we live in a country where we can express our thoughts, views and opinions.


----------



## luutzu (6 January 2017)

Tink said:


> Luutzu, I have put this up before --
> 
> Our foundations is how a country is established, our laws etc.
> 
> ...




The countries that permit freedom of thought and expression that you, and we all, cherished are Secular ones. They're never a religious, theocratic state. And that's true whether that dominant culture/religion is Christianity, Judaism, Islamic or Scientology.

Religion does not permit any expression outside the will of God. Where God's will is what was heard, written down and interpreted into Latin.

True that Western civilisation are seen as Christian. But...

That wikipedia's "some says" that Christianity is what created a unified European identity... not true, really. Like all things, it's commerce, money, more money, and a whole lot of memories of Pax Romana and the idle Greeks and their philosophers. What with the EU states being pretty much former colonies of Rome, with the new capital being Berlin and Paris - with London being too smart to get too involved with the barbarians but not too distant as to not make a few quid out of it.

As to that unified Christian peace... Europeans has never really got along with each other. The only few times they sat at the table together was deciding which part of the world to divvy up and which part of their defeated Christian neighbour to take. True story.

As to Christian value and all that scientific advances... Two thousand years and Western sciences didn't get a free reign until maybe a couple hundred years ago. And it's not Christian enlightenment that permitted that either. Before those years, "witches" were burnt and great scientific minds were locked up and their books banned.

As to peace and brotherly love, to social welfare... these only come about because the godless commies in the USSR and parts of Europe remove a few heads of their Czars and Kaisers. The Poms and Yanks got a bit smarter about it and decided to play nicer with its great unwashed. 

Since the fall of that alternative vision of world order came to an end in the late 80s, the Western christian democracies all decided to pat themselves on the back and move things back to the good old days of robber barons and slavery. This time they got Muslims and other victims of theirs to blame for the miseries. Which is kinda nice.

Sarcasm and all the good humour aside, if you love the country and want it to be great again (not that it was never ever not great)... should examine the causes of its rise and decline. Shouldn't just assume that it was Christian and its values that built and advanced the country. That would insult a lot of Muslims and coloured folks and atheists and Market-goers.


----------



## SirRumpole (6 January 2017)

luutzu said:


> Sarcasm and all the good humour aside, if you love the country and want it to be great again (not that it was never ever not great)... should examine the causes of its rise and decline. *Shouldn't just assume that it was Christian and its values that built and advanced the country. That would insult a lot of Muslims and coloured folks and atheists and Market-goers.*




Can I assume you make that comment tongue in cheek, or do you really believe it ?

Personally, I don't care if Muslims are insulted about Christian values, they didn't build the country they just suck on it.

Muslims are about 2% of the population and it wasn't nearly that much untill the 1980's when Fraser started letting in the Lebanese refugees, so they had very little to do with nation building. People like Eddie Obeid haven't set a very good example have they ?

 Whatever I think about Christianity (which isn't all that much), I like democracy and you will never get that under Islam.


----------



## luutzu (6 January 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Can I assume you make that comment tongue in cheek, or do you really believe it ?
> 
> Personally, I don't care if Muslims are insulted about Christian values, they didn't build the country they just suck on it.
> 
> ...




No nation is completely built at its founding. It does not remain at that original state forever either. Because if those were true, the streets of all countries that has ever existed would be greasy with blood.

So I think that it's a simple truism that all countries evolve and develop from its origin... and they are built by the masses and their labour, by their evolving vision of what ought to be.

Since that's the case, all Australian citizens contributed to the development of Australia.

Name one group of Australians who had not suckled at the t1ts of Mother Australia at one time or other.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not belittling the nation building effort of the original Australians (after the first originals)... just to say that unless the OZ is White and Christian and British, every other "Aussies" are parasites... we're not all capitalists alright?


SirRumpole said:


> Can I assume you make that comment tongue in cheek, or do you really believe it ?
> 
> Personally, I don't care if Muslims are insulted about Christian values, they didn't build the country they just suck on it.
> 
> ...





There's only a handful of billionaires and multi-millionaires in Australia and the world. And by the media account and politicians love for trickling down economics, those few are the real builders of all that is good and great.

So 2% of people shrewd enough to cheat billions and billions of welfare is plenty enough to have enrich the country SirR.

Seriously, it starts with believing that a segment of the population being parasitic... and ends in a few concentration camps.

Jesus wouldn't do that.


----------



## SirRumpole (6 January 2017)

luutzu said:


> Seriously, it starts with believing that a segment of the population being parasitic... and ends in a few concentration camps.




I think if you looked at a map of the biggest welfare suburbs and overlaid it with the highest concentration of Muslim suburbs then you will see a parallel.

Of course, not all people of a certain back ground are parasites, but it's more prevalent in some than others.


----------



## luutzu (6 January 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> I think if you looked at a map of the biggest welfare suburbs and overlaid it with the highest concentration of Muslim suburbs then you will see a parallel.
> 
> Of course, not all people of a certain back ground are parasites, but it's more prevalent in some than others.




I'm guessing that the North Shores of Australia aren't welfare recipients.

I guess they're call "Incentives", Tax Reform, well maintained neighbourhood with new underground roads and rail infrastructure (it's good for property value to have easy access to those, but who'd wanna see and breathe the stuff in, right?)... the nation will be poorer if those roads and rails are above ground.

This is why people don't want to be poor. Aside from welfare cheques for nothing, you get blame for beggaring a country that beggared you. That and ISIS.


----------



## SirRumpole (6 January 2017)

luutzu said:


> you get blame for beggaring a country that beggared you.




 Could you explain how we "beggared" Muslims ? No one asked them to come here they have as many opportunities as anyone else.


----------



## noco (6 January 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Could you explain how we "beggared" Muslims ? No one asked them to come here they have as many opportunities as anyone else.




Hey Rumpy, I am with you on this one....You tell'um to get lost buddy.....Vote 1 ..Pauline .


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## luutzu (6 January 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Could you explain how we "beggared" Muslims ? No one asked them to come here they have as many opportunities as anyone else.




Wasn't directed at Muslims alone. But directed at those on welfare.

Why are people on welfare? Beside the cheats that is... Why are people so poor that they need handouts from government (i.e. beggaring). Because the gov't have let them down (i.e. beggared them).

I know, we're all masters of our own destiny and freedom and hardwork and all that... But seriously, the ever increasing costs of everything, the lack of funding for training and the rapid changes in technology replacing manual labour. That and the poorer third world are actually manufacturing stuff they need, flooding them into our markets through Free Trades and multinationals shipping jobs to where labour is cheapest and environmental protection zero.

In some school of thought, leaders are to be blamed for the state of their country's and its people's well being. To make laws and set up policies that forces people to beg, to resort to crimes, to have to need social security... then shame the victims and lock up the crims. 

What are we paying politicians for? For them charging us a free "official" trip to Queensland where they drop by a real estate agent and splurge on a $700K luxury apartment?

Maybe we pay them so they can use our money to throw a cool New Year Eve's party at the Opera House for public servants who blah blah for the community blah blah.

The buck got to stop somewhere, and so far, it stops at the lowest, weakest, poorest of the community. Not a literal buck since they wouldn't mind one or two either. 


As to Muslims and Arabs migrant and refugees... Seriously, where the heck do you get these stories that they're all cheating welfare and lazing around?
That's not to say there are none that cheats welfare etc., but come on man. 

For one thing, the Asians are getting away with screwing Australia while the Muslims are front page news.


----------



## SirRumpole (6 January 2017)

luutzu said:


> Wasn't directed at Muslims alone. But directed at those on welfare.
> 
> Why are people on welfare? Beside the cheats that is... Why are people so poor that they need handouts from government (i.e. beggaring). Because the gov't have let them down (i.e. beggared them).




The government gives people an education that they can use to find a job. When you have a section of the community that is more interested in obeying their version of a Sky Fairy than learning English, Maths, Science then they have been let down by their own community not the government.



> I know, we're all masters of our own destiny and freedom and hardwork and all that... But seriously, the ever increasing costs of everything, the lack of funding for training and the rapid changes in technology replacing manual labour. That and the poorer third world are actually manufacturing stuff they need, flooding them into our markets through Free Trades and multinationals shipping jobs to where labour is cheapest and environmental protection zero.




You have it right as far as changing technology goes. That makes it even more necessary to get a good education and not just prostrate yourself 5 times a day and hope Allah provides for you.





> As to Muslims and Arabs migrant and refugees... Seriously, where the heck do you get these stories that they're all cheating welfare and lazing around?
> That's not to say there are none that cheats welfare etc., but come on man.




It's well known that a very high percentage of refugees remain on welfare for a long time.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...m/news-story/76d8a01ad528a1be6ff68cf0fd242246



> For one thing, the Asians are getting away with screwing Australia while the Muslims are front page news.




Now you are sounding like Pauline.


----------



## luutzu (7 January 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> The government gives people an education that they can use to find a job. When you have a section of the community that is more interested in obeying their version of a Sky Fairy than learning English, Maths, Science then they have been let down by their own community not the government.
> 
> You have it right as far as changing technology goes. That makes it even more necessary to get a good education and not just prostrate yourself 5 times a day and hope Allah provides for you.
> 
> ...





Shouldn't really quote anything from Murdoch's press regarding Muslims and immigrants SirR. 

Don't know if, other than the black overalls shown on TV, you've seen a wider range of traditional Muslim women clothing but let me tell you, they're sexy as heck. I'd go for those modest, curvy looks over the bikini and short-short any day. Well... I'd go for the short shorts too.

Not sure why we have problems with people being pious and observant to their faith. Isn't that a good thing? Take some time off every few hours, relax a bit, whine to some God for a while. Pray for some good luck and peace in the world.

Not if their religion is evil, right?

Am I being trolled here?


----------



## SirRumpole (7 January 2017)

luutzu said:


> Shouldn't really quote anything from Murdoch's press regarding Muslims and immigrants SirR.
> 
> Don't know if, other than the black overalls shown on TV, you've seen a wider range of traditional Muslim women clothing but let me tell you, they're sexy as heck. I'd go for those modest, curvy looks over the bikini and short-short any day. Well... I'd go for the short shorts too.
> 
> ...




You are not being trolled, but maybe you are trolling 

Just kidding, I know you are sincere in what you say, you just can't look at facts. 

You are tarting to sound like noco, shooting the messenger if you don't like what is being reported.

Expecting God (and someone elses taxes) to provide for your large family instead of putting in to society yourself is the reason that people get walked over by the religious hierarchy whatever the religion.


----------



## noco (7 January 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> You are not being trolled, but maybe you are trolling
> 
> Just kidding, I know you are sincere in what you say, you just can't look at facts.
> 
> ...


----------



## noco (7 January 2017)

Rumpy, you are sounding more like the mezzo-soprano in the church choir with megalomania.


----------



## luutzu (7 January 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> You are not being trolled, but maybe you are trolling
> 
> Just kidding, I know you are sincere in what you say, you just can't look at facts.
> 
> ...





Hard to tell facts from commentaries these days.

Some 21 year old American kid flipping pancakes was interviewed on Youtube and he said his opinion on Fake News is that it's designed to enforce the idea that any news that's not from the mainstream could be "fake". 

But I'd ignore some dumb kid's opinion over a good looking, well paid, prompter reading "journalist" any day.

Back to the topic of Muslims and other welfare cheats ruining the country... While you and I are honest hardworking Australians who know the facts but haven't the influence on politicians to do much about anything... I can't imagine a James Packer or a few CEOs down our Mal's streets can't drop by their neighbour's place to raise the issue. 

I mean, come on Mal... this welfare system is going too far Mister PM sir. I work hard all day managing all those hundreds of millions and billions, and these welfare cheats just come in and take my money. And the good it does them too! Still poor after all these years of living off of welfare.


----------



## luutzu (7 January 2017)

noco said:


> Rumpy, you are sounding more like the mezzo-soprano in the church choir with megalomania.




Did you just call me a megalomaniac? You do realise that he just said we're one and the same noco.


----------



## SirRumpole (7 January 2017)

luutzu said:


> Still poor after all these years of living off of welfare.





Don't bet on that. More than a few welfare cheats have many possibly stolen identities that they can claim welfare on, and that's not just Muslims.


----------



## noco (7 January 2017)

luutzu said:


> Did you just call me a megalomaniac? You do realise that he just said we're one and the same noco.




No Lu...Not me.....That came from Rumpy....Luu they threw the mold away when they created me.


----------



## luutzu (8 January 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Don't bet on that. More than a few welfare cheats have many possibly stolen identities that they can claim welfare on, and that's not just Muslims.




I'm sure there are some, many, a lot, of welfare cheats. But...

The solution isn't a blanketed demolition of it. Or just cutting it, or to reduced and demonising those who are on it.

I'm not saying that that's your suggestion. But that's the conclusion we're led to when we read all these facts and figures and dog whistlings. That all these public services are just not well managed that it's wasted on cheats and lazy no good bums; or for things for people you can't make that case - like kids education, help for the seniors... then it just costs way too much - who's going to pay for that.

Then there's the good old "we're not commies are we" argument. Individualism, capitalism, rich user pay once, poorer taxpayers pay twice or thrice kind of argument.

In short, there are laws against welfare cheats and other criminals.. if the commentators and other paid stooges in the media are so concern about the rorting, forward the evidence to the appropriate authorities.


----------



## luutzu (8 January 2017)

noco said:


> No Lu...Not me.....That came from Rumpy....Luu they threw the mold away when they created me.




They threw away defective molds did they? 

Ey, I wasn't sure if you were self-deprecating or egoistic about your uniqueness.


----------



## SirRumpole (8 January 2017)

luutzu said:


> In short, there are laws against welfare cheats and other criminals.. if the commentators and other paid stooges in the media are so concern about the rorting, forward the evidence to the appropriate authorities.




I think we need to design a system that is hard to rort in the first place rather than spending resources trying to catch the system abusers.  Random audits with tough penalties (including gaol) is usually a good way of ensuring people don't abuse a system. Maybe it's already happening.


----------



## noco (8 January 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> I think we need to design a system that is hard to rort in the first place rather than spending resources trying to catch the system abusers.  Random audits with tough penalties (including gaol) is usually a good way of ensuring people don't abuse a system. Maybe it's already happening.





VOTE 1 PAULINE HANSON......Pauline for Prime Mimister...Pauline will be the answer to your prayer....She is offering everything to fulfill your wishes.


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## Knobby22 (8 January 2017)

noco said:


> VOTE 1 PAULINE HANSON......Pauline for Prime Mimister...Pauline will be the answer to your prayer....She is offering everything to fulfill your wishes.



Everything! Wow. Has she got a daughter?


----------



## noco (8 January 2017)

Knobby22 said:


> Everything! Wow. Has she got a daughter?




The subject of discussion was about politics and not her family.


----------



## McLovin (8 January 2017)

noco said:


> VOTE 1 PAULINE HANSON......Pauline for Prime Mimister...Pauline will be the answer to your prayer....She is offering everything to fulfill your wishes.




Judging by the degenerates she put into the Senate, it would be good night Australia if she formed government.

Just because you can spot what is perceived by some to be an issue and have a whinge about it doesn't mean you can fix it. If it were that easy we'd be run by talkback radio hosts and tabloid columnists.


----------



## luutzu (8 January 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> I think we need to design a system that is hard to rort in the first place rather than spending resources trying to catch the system abusers.  Random audits with tough penalties (including gaol) is usually a good way of ensuring people don't abuse a system. Maybe it's already happening.




Heard on the news last week or so that CentreLink have use some not-so-nice tactics and overclaim what they think is owed to them. Caught a bit of ABC where some guy said he was sent a bill for $27K and after going through a bit of hell, turns out he only owe them $57. 

So I think we can all sleep well at night knowing that the nanny state is generous, but no pushovers. Some might say she's a bit nasty, but nice.


----------



## SirRumpole (8 January 2017)

luutzu said:


> So I think we can all sleep well at night knowing that the nanny state is generous, but no pushovers. Some might say she's a bit nasty, but nice.





They went after the wrong people and should have got their facts straight before sending out nasty letters.

If I was a Centrelink beneficiary wrongly accused of owing them money , I might take a trip to a lawyer and ask about a harassment lawsuit.


----------



## noco (8 January 2017)

McLovin said:


> Judging by the degenerates she put into the Senate, it would be good night Australia if she formed government.
> 
> Just because you can spot what is perceived by some to be an issue and have a whinge about it doesn't mean you can fix it. If it were that easy we'd be run by talkback radio hosts and tabloid columnists.




Paiuine did not put them in the senate, the people did.

But you must agree you Labor lefties and the Liberal ding bats in parliament are running scared of Pauline.s resurrection and will throw all the dirt they can.....I bet the Labor Party's propaganda machine GETUP and the ABC is working overtime in readiness for the Queensland state election


----------



## McLovin (8 January 2017)

noco said:


> Paiuine did not put them in the senate, the people did.




Rubbish. You really think those One Nation voters had any idea they were voting for a crook, and a conspiracy nut with a Napoleon complex? If they did and they still voted for them then we're in even more ****.



noco said:


> But you must agree you Labor lefties and the Liberal ding bats in parliament are running scared of Pauline.s resurrection and will throw all the dirt they can.....I bet the Labor Party's propaganda machine GETUP and the ABC is working overtime in readiness for the Queensland state election




Can't you get some new material? Even prop comedy is more entertaining than your act.


----------



## noco (8 January 2017)

McLovin said:


> Rubbish. You really think those One Nation voters had any idea they were voting for a crook, and a conspiracy nut with a Napoleon complex? If they did and they still voted for them then we're in even more ****.
> 
> 
> 
> Can't you get some new material? Even prop comedy is more entertaining than your act.




Did the Labor voters have any idea who they were voting for when they elected Labor MP crooks?
Craig Thomson
Gordon Nuttall
Sam Dastyari
Eddie Obeid
Ian Mac Donald.
Do some of your own research and you will find plenty more including Liberal and Nationals , but you will find they are predominantly Labor.


----------



## McLovin (8 January 2017)

noco said:


> Did the Labor voters have any idea who they were voting for when they elected Labor MP crooks?




Nope. Next question.


----------



## noco (8 January 2017)

McLovin said:


> Nope. Next question.




You are rally something aren't you?.....One sided or lope sided I am not sure witch.


----------



## McLovin (8 January 2017)

noco said:


> You are rally something aren't you?.....One sided or lope sided I am not sure witch.




What are you on about? I'm saying no one pays much attention to who they are voting for when they vote for a party, especially in the Senate. Pauline picked her crew of battlers and the punters voted for "One Nation" because they love Pauline.  The same happens with Labor/Liberal/Greens/Xenophon/National whatever voters. Get it? It's not that complicated. FFS.

Why do you have such a complete lack of ability to follow a simple conversation?


----------



## noco (8 January 2017)

McLovin said:


> What are you on about? I'm saying no one pays much attention to who they are voting for when they vote for a party, especially in the Senate. Pauline picked her crew of battlers and the punters voted for "One Nation" because they love Pauline. Get it? It's not that complicated. FFS.
> 
> Why do you have such a complete lack of ability to follow a simple conversation?




Simple conversation????......The Pot calling the kettle black.....You ridiculed people for voting in a One Nation crook but you can't take it when Labor crooks are mentioned....You have just contradicted yourself in the usual megalomaniac way.


----------



## luutzu (8 January 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> They went after the wrong people and should have got their facts straight before sending out nasty letters.
> 
> If I was a Centrelink beneficiary wrongly accused of owing them money , I might take a trip to a lawyer and ask about a harassment lawsuit.




Strange that innocent people have to prove their innocence.


----------



## Tisme (9 January 2017)

luutzu said:


> Strange that innocent people have to prove their innocence.



 The minister in charge has a battle of her own now. Classic example of the public service stitching up their masters when they see the opportunity.


----------



## Tisme (9 January 2017)

noco said:


> Did the Labor voters have any idea who they were voting for when they elected *Politicians*?
> Craig Thomson Lab
> Gordon Nuttall Lab
> Sam Dastyari Lab
> ...




_*Corrected and expanded for universal agreement

Craig Thomson Lab
Gordon Nuttall Lab 
Sam Dastyari Lab
Eddie Obeid Lab
Ian Mac Donald Lab
Bronwyn Bishop Lib
Peter Slipper Lib
Troy Buswell Lib
Barry O’Farrell Lib
Mike Gallacher Lib
Chris Hartcher Lib
Chris Spence Lib
Darren Webber Lib
Bart Bassett Lib
Marie Ficarra Lib
Tim Owen Lib
Andrew Cornwell Lib
Garry Edwards Lib
Craig Baumann Lib
Arthur Sinodinos. Lib
The blokes who dealt with Godwin Grech = Hockey and Turnbull Lib + Lib
+ a couple of WA Premiers ALP + Lib
+ a Qld premier or two and some seat warmers Nat + ALP + Lib
+ etc ad nauseum*_


----------



## SirRumpole (9 January 2017)

Tisme said:


> + etc *ad nauseum*




George Brandis ?

A few unresolved allegations of dirty dealings that the Libs obviously hope will have been forgotten over the holidays.


----------



## ghotib (9 January 2017)

noco said:


> Rumpy, you are sounding more like the mezzo-soprano in the church choir with megalomania.



Please Noco, what mezzo soprano with megalomania? What does megalomania sound like? What does this mean?

Please explain.


----------



## Tisme (9 January 2017)

ghotib said:


> Please Noco, what mezzo soprano with megalomania? What does megalomania sound like? What does this mean?
> 
> Please explain.





Doesn't a dose of quinine fix that?


----------



## noco (9 January 2017)

ghotib said:


> Please Noco, what mezzo soprano with megalomania? What does megalomania sound like? What does this mean?
> 
> Please explain.




MEGALOMANIA
A mental disorder involving exaggerated idea of one's own importance.....passion for grandiose things.


----------



## noco (9 January 2017)

How very true this is...
Let's restore Australia to the great Nation it once was.
One can only be disgusted as to what is happening in Australia at the present.

*Subject: Larry Pickering "Nailed it" !



Many of us came from convict backgrounds, sent in to exile for stealing a coat or a loaf of bread or a silver spoon.

Some came for murder and robbery or prostitution. Tough people. 

Many came from China to work on the Gold Fields. 

Some came from Italy to work on the Snowy Mountains Hydro-Electricity scheme. 

Some came from Hungary during the Revolution. 

Some came from Vietnam during the Vietnam War.

But they came for a chance to work and start a new life.


And they worked hard !! 

The Greeks, Serbs, and Irish, so many more that it would be impossible to name. 

There were no hand-outs, no privileges offered. 
These people were given a chance to start a new life, in Australia, to become Australians.
And Australians they became.

They learned English and embraced our country while offering the gift of their food and culture and music.

We accepted that gift and sat together at the same table and laughed and drank their wine, ate their food, 


danced to their music and married and loved their people. 


As they did us.

I have spoken with friends from Hungarian, Italian etc, backgrounds and, while they embrace and celebrate their roots, they consider themselves Australian.

The common denominator with this terrible situation that we find ourselves in is that our current immigrant population do not want to embrace our culture but to destroy it.

They do not want to learn our language, but to annihilate it.

They do not want to work but to get us to work for them.


When our feminists ignore the genital mutilation, oppression of women, rape of little children of both sexes, we have a problem.

When our Politicians condemn an elected member of the Dutch Parliament for coming to Australia to speak his views, we have a problem.

When Australians are callously-murdered in cold blood by immigrants of any Nationality, Religion or Race and our Government offers sympathy to the family of the perpetrator of the crime before offering sympathy to the family of the victim, then we have a problem.



When Australians are living below the poverty line and have nowhere to live while immigrants of any Nationality, Religion or Race are prioritised, then we have a problem.

When 16,000 English-speaking skilled-professional workers are refused visas and 12,000 uneducated, non-English speaking refugees are accepted, then, guess what, we have a problem.



When Australians are called racists and bigots for speaking out about their concerns about the above, then again, we as a Nation, have a problem.

When people prefer to debate the best bachelor or best contestant on X Factor to debating our Nation`s future, our children`s future and our grandchildren`s future, well, you got it, we have a problem.



When our news is censored and we have to delve in to the internet to find out what is happening in the world and in our own country, dare I say, we have a problem.
The one thing that sets Australia apart from almost any other Nation on Earth is the Aussie spirit. It can be seen as a "she`ll be right mate" attitude that suggests apathy; or "she`ll be right mate" because we will take care of it.



I went and saw "Bridge of Lies" yesterday and it is well worth the watch.

The Berlin Wall was put up to separate two different Political views. It was a physical wall.


Today, we have a wall being built in Australia.


It is not made of bricks and mortar. It is made of censorship, Political Correctness and insidious manipulation through media control, Acts of Parliament and Social media trolls.


There is no razor wire, no watch towers. Just the ability to call someone a racist.

I am reminded of the words in the old childhood saying: "Sticks and Stones may break my bones - but words will never hurt me."


Well today, apparently words can hurt you, but only if you live on the side of the wall that our Government and Politicians have elected as the "right" side of the wall.

No longer are people in Australia even able to scale a wall. Bullets are not needed.


To shoot us down, all that is needed is to call us racists or bigots

I am hoping that the Aussie "she`ll be right mate" translates to "don`t worry, we will take care of it" and rise up and say that this is our country

Friends, this is not a Refugee crisis.


This is an Australia Crisis.



I fear that it will be too late if something does not happen while we still have enough Aussies left.

- Larry Pickering

*


----------



## ghotib (9 January 2017)

noco said:


> MEGALOMANIA
> A mental disorder involving exaggerated idea of one's own importance.....passion for grandiose things.



Yes?? But what does a megalomaniac mezzo sound like? Where can we hear her? For that matter, where can we hear SirRumpole? Is he a counter tenor? Is "you sound like a megalomaniac mezzo" a compliment or an insult? What does it mean????


----------



## ghotib (9 January 2017)

Tisme said:


> Doesn't a dose of quinine fix that?



Errrrr. Noco says SirRumpole sounds like malaria??? 

Oh dear.


----------



## McLovin (9 January 2017)

ghotib said:


> Yes?? But what does a megalomaniac mezzo sound like? Where can we hear her? For that matter, where can we hear SirRumpole? Is he a counter tenor? Is "you sound like a megalomaniac mezzo" a compliment or an insult? What does it mean????




At least SirRumpole can sing. I'm just a megalomaniac.


----------



## SirRumpole (9 January 2017)

McLovin said:


> At least SirRumpole can sing. I'm just a megalomaniac.




Here's me warming up the tonsils. A bit of mezzo in the background.


----------



## Tink (9 January 2017)

_The world witnessed the fall of the Berlin Wall. 
This was the very powerful image of the defeat of the evil empire -- Godless Communism. 
The Soviet Union and Eastern Europe finally came undone, after years of tyranny and oppression.

Three men and women of courage, vision, commitment and perseverance can be mentioned as in large measure being responsible for the death of the Soviet colossus - _

Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher and Pope John Paul II

The President, the Pope, and the Prime Minister - Three Who Changed the World


----------



## luutzu (9 January 2017)

Tisme said:


> The minister in charge has a battle of her own now. Classic example of the public service stitching up their masters when they see the opportunity.




I guess somebody got to pay for those business trips and impulse "investment" buys.

Can't do better than a bunch of lazy, no-good, too-poor-for-a-lawyer welfare parasites who, upon receiving a letter, panics, calls up and negotiate a "generous" repayment reschedule - with interests of course.


----------



## McLovin (9 January 2017)

Tink said:


> _The world witnessed the fall of the Berlin Wall.
> This was the very powerful image of the defeat of the evil empire -- Godless Communism.
> The Soviet Union and Eastern Europe finally came undone, after years of tyranny and oppression.
> 
> ...




I'm not sure the Pope did much to end the Soviet Union (it being orthodox and muslim), although he did have influence in Eastern Europe.

Ultimately, imo, the USSR collapsed under its own weight. Food shortages and wars in far flung countries are a sure fire way for any government to collapse.

As for Thatcher. Well she handed Hong Kong Island and Kowloon over to the Communists in Beijing. I guess that's what they call realpolltik.

Are any of the countries of the USSR better places than they were back then? The average Russian has less in savings than the average Indian, and 35% of Russia's wealth is controlled by 100 or so oligarchs. Not to mention the murderous tyrant at the top of the tree.


----------



## luutzu (9 January 2017)

McLovin said:


> I'm not sure the Pope did much to end the Soviet Union (it being orthodox and muslim), although he did have influence in Eastern Europe.
> 
> Ultimately, imo, the USSR collapsed under its own weight. Food shortages and wars in far flung countries are a sure fire way for any government to collapse.
> 
> ...





100 or so oligarchs own only 35%? Prffffff... what a bunch of amateurs. The top 16 families in America have as much wealth as the bottom half. The top 1% owns about half the place.


----------



## noco (9 January 2017)

McLovin said:


> I'm not sure the Pope did much to end the Soviet Union (it being orthodox and muslim), although he did have influence in Eastern Europe.
> 
> Ultimately, imo, the USSR collapsed under its own weight. Food shortages and wars in far flung countries are a sure fire way for any government to collapse.
> 
> ...




That is Communism for you...A complete failure....Never has worked and never will.

Thatcher had no choice but to hand back Hong Kong and Kowloon as the 99 year lease had expired and Communist China legally exercise their rite.


----------



## McLovin (9 January 2017)

luutzu said:


> 100 or so oligarchs own only 35%? Prffffff... what a bunch of amateurs. The top 16 families in America have as much wealth as the bottom half. The top 1% owns about half the place.




The top 1% in Russia own closer to 75% of the wealth. In Russia, the top 16 families would own multiples of what the bottom half have.


----------



## Tisme (9 January 2017)

Is this an early example of political correctness?


----------



## luutzu (9 January 2017)

McLovin said:


> The top 1% in Russia own closer to 75% of the wealth. In Russia, the top 16 families would own multiples of what the bottom half have.




Dam.

Good thing they chose Trump then. The Donald is all about winning and will not let the Ruskies beat US.


----------



## Tink (14 January 2017)

In my view, McLovin, the Soviet Union was Communism, an atheist state, as was Cuba and Castro

Marxism–Leninism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism–Leninism

Just like the Greens and these Communists are pushing in Victoria.

We saw them in Europe waving their Communist red flags, same as here in Victoria.


----------



## luutzu (14 January 2017)

Tink said:


> In my view, McLovin, the Soviet Union was Communism, an atheist state, as was Cuba and Castro
> 
> Marxism–Leninism
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism–Leninism
> ...




Oliver sure got more when he asked for some.


----------



## wayneL (16 January 2017)

White Pride
Male Pride
Straight Pride

Post that in FB or somewhere and watch


----------



## Tisme (16 January 2017)

wayneL said:


> White Pride
> Male Pride
> Straight Pride
> 
> Post that in FB or somewhere and watch





send my your facebook nic, and I'll post them on your timeline if you like.


----------



## wayneL (17 January 2017)

Tisme said:


> send my your facebook nic, and I'll post them on your timeline if you like.



I already did. 

It was interesting. It didn't take long for someone to call me a racist for implied equal self regard for the "races".


----------



## Tisme (17 January 2017)

wayneL said:


> I already did.
> 
> It was interesting. It didn't take long for someone to call me a racist for implied equal self regard for the "races".




Bees to honey. One has to wonder if it is so easy to socially program vast populations of people to behave like indignant moral sheriffs.... what have they done to us people with an innate desire for freedom of expression and concrete in our coffee? Are we the good guys or sociopaths?


----------



## wayneL (17 January 2017)

Time will tell I guess. But recent democratic events suggest a showdown at O.K. Corral is a possibility.


----------



## wayneL (16 February 2017)

For your consideration,  a colleague of mine from the midwest USA wrote this:

#########

I used to think I was just a regular person, but I was born white, which now, whether I like it or not, makes me a racist and responsible for slavery.

I am a fiscal and moral conservative, which by today's standards, makes me a fascist because I planned and supported myself.

I graduated high school and college and have held a job ever since.  Therefore, I am here not because I earned it but because I was advantaged.

I am heterosexual, which according to gay people, now makes me a homophobe.

I am not a Muslim, which now labels me as an infidel.

I believe in the 2nd Amendment, which now makes me a member of the vast NRA gun lobby and a redneck.

I think and I reason for myself, therefore I doubt much that the main stream media tells me, which must make me a reactionary and conspiratist.

I am proud of my heritage and our inclusive American culture, which makes me a xenophobe.

I value my safety and that of my family and I appreciate the police and the legal system, which makes me a right-wing, cop-loving extremist.

I believe in hard work, fair play, and fair compensation according to each individual's merits, which today makes me an anti-socialist.

I believe that our system guarantees freedom of effort - not freedom of outcome or subsidies which must make me a borderline sociopath.

I believe in the defense and protection of the homeland for and by all citizens, which now makes me a militant.

I believe in the protection of our borders and against illegal entry, which somehow makes me un-American.

I am proud of our flag, what it stands for and the many who died to let it fly.  I stand and salute during our National Anthem, which takes me back to where I started - I must be a racist.

Please help me come to terms with the new me, because I'm just not sure who I am anymore!

I would like to thank all my closest friends for sticking with me through these abrupt, new found changes in my life and my thinking!

I just can't imagine or understand what's happened to me so quickly!  Funny (or sadly), it's all taken place over just the last 7 or 8 years!

And if all this nonsense wasn't enough to deal with, I no longer know what public restroom I'm supposed to use.


----------



## Ves (16 February 2017)

Carrying on from the above:    And because I vicariously live my life through what other people think of me, and internalise all criticism as if it's the end of the world, I need to have a big sook about the labels they give me.

In my self-imposed misery I forget my quality of life is actually better than pretty much all generations that came before me,  and further more, by virtue of probably nothing other than being a middle class white person, and most likely better than 95% of people who live in the world today.

On the outside I'm a stern,  take no prisoners white man who just wants to be heard, and my self-esteem boosted by their glowing praise,  but on the inside I'm just a small insignificant white man looking for a cuddle,  a shoulder to cry on,  and someone who will look me in the eyes,  and with sincerity, label me as the victim I feel I am.

When it comes down to it,  it doesn't matter what they call me,  as long as I can share in the immense pity of being a victim.

Indeed, well said.


----------



## Tisme (16 February 2017)

wayneL said:


> I already did.
> 
> It was interesting. It didn't take long for someone to call me a racist for implied equal self regard for the "races".




I think I offended someone on facebook.


----------



## wayneL (16 February 2017)

Ves,

Possibly, I know him but not that well. I certainly don't know him as intimately as you seem to believe you know him.

However,  I do think some of your extrapolations are a tad unfair and mean spirited.

Just my opinion.


----------



## Ves (16 February 2017)

wayneL said:


> Ves,
> 
> Possibly, I know him but not that well. I certainly don't know him as intimately as you seem to believe you know him.
> 
> ...



Of course,  they're unfair and mean spirited.  That's the whole point. If he wants to be able to say what he wants about others,  I'll say what I want about (people like) him!


----------



## Tisme (16 February 2017)

Ves said:


> Of course,  they're unfair and mean spirited.  That's the whole point.





Yeah but you tongue in cheeked a tongue in cheek yarn ...that's a double entonguer


----------



## wayneL (16 February 2017)

Okay, but struggling to understand that point. You may have to make it clearer.


----------



## Ves (16 February 2017)

Tisme said:


> Yeah but you tongue in cheeked a tongue in cheek yarn ...that's a double entonguer



Yes,  it was a lot to get my tongue around.  Hmmm...


----------



## Ves (16 February 2017)

wayneL said:


> Okay, but struggling to understand that point. You may have to make it clearer.



It's just a reversal of the positions.

I transgressed any concept of political correctness and said (with my tongue in my cheek) something about people who complain about political correctness.

But if that is going too far,  and it is 'mean spirited and unfair' then it would appear what is good for the goose isn't good for the gander.

So where does it leave us?  Looks like we're still stuck?


----------



## bellenuit (16 February 2017)

wayneL said:


> For your consideration,  a colleague of mine from the midwest USA wrote this:
> 
> #########
> 
> I used to think I was just a regular person, but I was born white, ............




Is this your colleague, Wayne:

https://www.google.com.au/?gfe_rd=c...+just+a+regular+person,+but+I+was+born+white"


----------



## wayneL (16 February 2017)

bellenuit said:


> Is this your colleague, Wayne:
> 
> https://www.google.com.au/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=8QulWI6ZFtOF9AXxspT4Dw&gws_rd=ssl#q="I+used+to+think+I+was+just+a+regular+person,+but+I+was+born+white"




I thought he had written it himself. My bad.


Nevertheless,  those of us the subject to Salemesque witch-hunts and sick of being labeled in an arena of putrid double standards, are having a say.

I am a white middle aged male. Not a matter of pride or shame, just what I am and if anyone wants to try to make me feel guilty for that, well they can get stuffed.

I like and enjoy my own culture,  I also enjoy infusions from other cultures, but only thosr I like and on my terms.. and not because necause some cringing lefty said so.

Etc

Work beckons, perhaps more later


----------



## Knobby22 (17 February 2017)

Today there is a push to rename seat of Batman who founded Melbourne to Wonga. Batman got the land for Melbourne in a deal where he gave the natives axes,wheat,blankets etc. As such he is an evil invasion leader and should be expunged from our history and replaced with a little known aboriginal elder.


----------



## Tisme (3 March 2017)

Hunters and Collectors in the firing line:

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/austr...llectors-to-change-their-band-name/ar-AAnH1MF


----------



## SirRumpole (3 March 2017)

Some justice has finally been done.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-03/judge-denies-qut-admins-18c-racism-appeal/8324078


----------



## dutchie (4 March 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Some justice has finally been done.
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-03/judge-denies-qut-admins-18c-racism-appeal/8324078




Cindy Prior's attempt to exhort money from this situation has failed. I hope she has learned her lesson.
I feel sorry for the students.


----------



## Tisme (4 March 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Some justice has finally been done.
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-03/judge-denies-qut-admins-18c-racism-appeal/8324078




You know QUT has special rooms for one particular religion, which also have their own squat toilets. There is no welcome mat for others:

https://www.qut.edu.au/about/services-and-facilities/all-services/religious-services-and-facilities


----------



## Tisme (4 March 2017)

dutchie said:


> Cindy Prior's attempt to exhort money from this situation has failed. I hope she has learned her lesson.
> I feel sorry for the students.




Who vilified whom? It seems to me she went the other three first, based purely on racial discrimination?


----------



## SirRumpole (4 March 2017)

Tisme said:


> You know QUT has special rooms for one particular religion, which also have their own squat toilets. There is no welcome mat for others:
> 
> https://www.qut.edu.au/about/services-and-facilities/all-services/religious-services-and-facilities




Schools and Universities should be completely secular imo, with no provisions made for any religion.

People who want religion can do it in their own time with their own resources.


----------



## Boggo (5 March 2017)




----------



## SirRumpole (7 March 2017)

Words fail me. What a bunch of wnkers.

*Female traffic light signals to go up at pedestrian crossing as Committee for Melbourne tackles 'unconscious bias'*

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-...signals-melbourne-pedestrian-crossing/8330560

What about Muslim traffic lights as well ?


----------



## Gringotts Bank (7 March 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Words fail me. What a bunch of wnkers.
> 
> *Female traffic light signals to go up at pedestrian crossing as Committee for Melbourne tackles 'unconscious bias'*
> 
> ...




I was going to say something funny but it's beyond joking.  It's unbelievable that people would make this their life's work.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (7 March 2017)

Unconscious biases exist in every person and every society.  You cannot change unconscious biases by applying social pressure.  To attempt to do so is extremely ignorant.  The PC brigade and the Twitterati don't understand human nature.  

The application of social pressure to an unconscious bias only embeds it more deeply.  It rids it on a surface level, and it will appear to be 'fixed', but it is made worse.  They will wake up to this fact one day.

Having said all this, male traffic icons aren't a problem for anyone I know of.  To even notice this is a sign of severe victim mentality.


----------



## trainspotter (7 March 2017)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Unconscious biases exist in every person and every society.  You cannot change unconscious biases by applying social pressure.  To attempt to do so is extremely ignorant.  The PC brigade and the Twitterati don't understand human nature.
> 
> The application of social pressure to an unconscious bias only embeds it more deeply.  It rids it on a surface level, and it will appear to be 'fixed', but it is made worse.  They will wake up to this fact one day.
> 
> Having said all this, male traffic icons aren't a problem for anyone I know of.  To even notice this is a sign of severe victim mentality.




How will blind people know the difference? Will the "WALK" be in a lower octave when it is the man signal and a high pitched screeching noise when it is the "WOMAN" signal to stop?


----------



## Boggo (7 March 2017)




----------



## Tink (8 March 2017)

More waste of taxpayers money with no accountability.

Time to start removing these public servants that sit on the gravy train.


----------



## PZ99 (8 March 2017)

They're using the wrong place for a start. 
They should have trialed this in the St Kilda red light district.

Tartan Day will be good for laughs


----------



## dutchie (8 March 2017)

PZ99 said:


> Tartan Day will be good for laughs




Nudist Colony Day will be even better.


----------



## Tisme (8 March 2017)

Boggo said:


> View attachment 70238




I think that's big sister and little brother.

I think if we changed it to Man and Boy, the same reaction as seeing a middle aged man and a boy in an open topped sports car might apply.


----------



## Tisme (8 March 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Words fail me. What a bunch of wnkers.
> 
> *Female traffic light signals to go up at pedestrian crossing as Committee for Melbourne tackles 'unconscious bias'*
> 
> ...





Is it bias against women in pant trowsers/active wear?


----------



## moXJO (8 March 2017)

Apparently its privately raised funds. Thats not to say that taxpayers money isn't wasted somewhere. I think abc's "international womens day" banning of men from all broadcasting positions is another stupid gesture. Lets celebrate equality by kicking all the men off. New wave feminists lost the plot years ago.


----------



## Tisme (8 March 2017)

moXJO said:


> Apparently its privately raised funds. Thats not to say that taxpayers money isn't wasted somewhere. I think abc's "international womens day" banning of men from all broadcasting positions is another stupid gesture. Lets celebrate equality by kicking all the men off. New wave feminists lost the plot years ago.




Equity and Diversity is a core :

http://about.abc.net.au/reports-publications/equity-and-diversity-plan-2016-18/


----------



## Logique (11 March 2017)

_Vale_ cartoonist Bill Leak. A brave Australian who suffered a heart attack this week.

Perhaps the first ever casualty of latter day Orwellian political correctness. Hounded, and threatened with death, for the crime of...expressing an opinion contrary to Leftist orthodoxy.

Just 61 years old.


----------



## pixel (12 March 2017)

> for the crime of...expressing an opinion



Even more disturbing is the fact that so many morons tweeted hateful obituaries on Social Media. Basking in self-righteousness, welcoming his death, is akin to having pulled a trigger and murdering him for his views. Hypocrisy and a most contemptible display of low-life inhumanity.


----------



## Tink (12 March 2017)

Agree with you both.

I have heard comments like that, pixel, when giving an opinion.

The sooner the old people die the better.

Standing up for something does not mean you dislike the person.

I posted a song by George Michael.
We went to his concert when we were young and I like his music.

Oh, but you are glad he is dead.

Why would I be glad he is dead?

This is where it is getting ridiculous, imv.


----------



## pixel (12 March 2017)

Tink said:


> The sooner the old people die the better.



Careful: I am one of "the old people", and I shall sue you under 18C!
I am deeply offended that you want me dead - without even knowing me!


----------



## Tink (12 March 2017)

Pixel, that is what has been said in here if I stand up for something.
The sooner these old people die the better.


----------



## SirRumpole (12 March 2017)

Tink said:


> Pixel, that is what has been said in here if I stand up for something.
> The sooner these old people die the better.




What do you mean by "these" old people ?

Everyone over 65 ? Are you prepared to top yourself at that age ?

Terminally ill people ? Are you advocating euthanasia ? I thought that was against your religion.


----------



## Tink (12 March 2017)

OK I will give an example...

Standing up for Marriage.

I was told the sooner you all die off the better.

Meaning this old generation.


----------



## pixel (12 March 2017)

Do you pretend your religious beliefs fall into the broader Christian spectrum?
If it is palatable for you to wish someone dead just for standing up for a cause, such as Marriage Equality or Family Planning, then your sect is even more hypocritical than I feared.
That still doesn't cause me to want anyone to die before their time. At best, I might wish the proponents of such intolerant belief systems be outvoted and outlived by their more moderate and humane brethren.


----------



## Tink (12 March 2017)

Where did I say I wished people dead?

That is what was said to me for standing up for marriage.

I think you have misunderstood my post..


----------



## pixel (12 March 2017)

Tink said:


> Where did I say I wished people dead?
> 
> That is what was said to me for standing up for marriage.
> 
> I think you have misunderstood my post..



I wasn't referring to "you" personally, but used the pronoun "you" as a general reference, addressing the hardliners that publish the "better dead" posts. Should've made that clearer in my reply.


----------



## SirRumpole (12 March 2017)

Tink said:


> Where did I say I wished people dead?
> 
> That is what was said to me for standing up for marriage.
> 
> I think you have misunderstood my post..




I took it that you were saying that old people should die.

Knowing the tenure of your posts I found that rather unusual. You should have made it clearer that you were responding to posts elsewhere and you can't assume that we would have read them if they were some time ago.


----------



## Tink (12 March 2017)

OK, I probably should have made it clearer.

I would not say that about the elderly.

I was annoyed that someone would come back and use their PC rubbish on me saying --- oh but you are happy that he is dead.
No, I wasn't happy that he was dead.

I didn't care what he was, I was listening to a song.


----------



## Tisme (12 March 2017)

I think you were baited into that one Tink LOL

If it's any consolation I knew what you were saying ...I think Pixel and Rumpole did too, but too good an opportunity for irony.


----------



## Tink (13 March 2017)

Tisme, I won't be toeing any party line on political correctness, identity politics, history revision and what ever else these social engineers try to throw out.

I see our national broadcaster, ABC, has not one article on Bill Leak.

We are all entitled to our opinions, I was giving mine.


----------



## SirRumpole (13 March 2017)

Tink said:


> Tisme, I won't be toeing any party line on political correctness, identity politics, history revision and what ever else these social engineers try to throw out.
> 
> I see our national broadcaster, ABC, has not one article on Bill Leak.
> 
> We are all entitled to our opinions, I was giving mine.




A search of ABC Online came up with at least 4 articles on Bill Leak.


----------



## Tisme (13 March 2017)

Tink said:


> Tisme, I won't be toeing any party line on political correctness, identity politics, history revision and what ever else these social engineers try to throw out.
> 
> I see our national broadcaster, ABC, has not one article on Bill Leak.
> 
> We are all entitled to our opinions, I was giving mine.




I reached my limits of psychological manipulation about grade one I reckon.... when peer group pressure attempted to hijack my right to my own likes and dislikes.


----------



## Tink (14 March 2017)

Change 18C.

It needs to be done.

"protecting our feelings" was not the role of the legal system

_The West has lost its freedom of speech_
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/threads/the-west-has-lost-its-freedom-of-speech.29402/page-39

_The Australian Human Rights Commission_
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/t...s-commission-a-national-disgrace.31515/page-3


----------



## Tisme (14 March 2017)

Here you go Tink:

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/g...es-street-verge-rulebook-20170226-gulpuh.html


----------



## Logique (15 March 2017)

Tisme said:


> I think you were baited into that one Tink LOL
> If it's any consolation I knew what you were saying ...I think Pixel and Rumpole did too, but too good an opportunity for irony.



Yes I think those scamps were at it again   Touches on an important issue though - declining birth rates, and consequent ageing of the population is going to cause serious headaches for planners.  

In the wake of the call for female symbols at traffic lights, I noticed on Kochies show this morning, some blokes are demanding that car parks show male symbols above the 'baby on board' spaces, and outside the baby changing rooms. Can of worms opened.


----------



## Tink (16 March 2017)

Thanks for your views.

How I see it....

The ones that call out diversity and tolerance, are the most intolerant of all, especially the Greens.


----------



## Tink (16 March 2017)

Knobby put up an article to do with one of the reserves in Melbourne being changed from Batman to Wonga.

The Councils have been infested with these Greens.

Supposedly, Batmans grandson has come forward about his great grandfather, and the aboriginal group were happy to hyphen the name to both.

As you can imagine, the PC crew have come in and said they are not happy with it.

Will be interesting to see what the outcome is on this.


----------



## Tink (19 March 2017)

PM honours Bill Leak at memorial

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2017/03/17/pm-honours-bill-leak-at-memorial.html

Our national broadcaster, the ABC, have found a spot on their website.

Vale Bill Leak: 1956-2017

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-18/vale-bill-leak-by-christopher-sheil/8364084


----------



## Tisme (21 March 2017)

Leak:







Pickering:


----------



## wayneL (21 March 2017)

As expected,  there is much ado over the 18c thing from the left atm.

But is the gu'mint on the right track?


----------



## Tink (22 March 2017)

imv, insult and offend should be removed, Wayne.

I see Bob Brown is taking someone to Court regarding a photo of when he was protesting about logging with a group of men.

----------------------------------------

http://zanettisview.com/story/bill-leak-from-outrageous-lefty-to-outrageous-conservative/4194


----------



## Tink (23 March 2017)

How is it that the left are called progressives, when they don't even believe in freedom of speech.

-------------------------

_Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. 
We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like when men were free._

-- Ronald Reagan


----------



## Tisme (23 March 2017)

Tink said:


> How is it that the left are called progressives, when they don't even believe in freedom of speech.
> 
> -------------------------
> 
> ...




 I find that quote quite interesting Tink. It was his generation's children who DID change the world  from being sheeple and are the ones opposing the fences that are being put up to corral us into an obedient mob.


----------



## Tink (26 March 2017)

imv, this needs to be changed to back on the ground and to the people -- not lawyers and governments.

------------------------------------------------------

_The West has lost its freedom of speech_
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/threads/the-west-has-lost-its-freedom-of-speech.29402/page-39
_
The Australian Human Rights Commission_
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/t...s-commission-a-national-disgrace.31515/page-3

-------------------------------------------------------

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...mage-gallery/ee8a4ef1032a9da5a37c87ecb7f34c5c


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## Tisme (28 March 2017)

I'm guessing this is one of the reasons we have curbs on behaviours these days. My mother would have stormed on stage and yanked all the kids off stage, but others maybe not.......


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## Tink (29 March 2017)

I don't think Bill Leak should have been hauled through the commission.

18C needs to be changed or removed completely.


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## SirRumpole (29 March 2017)

Political correctness gone mad ?



Are our university students so soft that they can't face reality ?



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-28/monash-university-adopts-trigger-warning-policy/8390264

--


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## Tisme (29 March 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Political correctness gone mad ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Once upon a time Universities were supposed to be cradles of ideas and free expression. Of course once upon a time the students were expected pepper the course with field work and interaction with people and take a hit on the chin if they over stepped the boundaries of polite and respect.


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## Tink (30 March 2017)

To think these universities started from monasteries.

Based on our Christian faith and our heritage.

Hospitals were the same.


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## noco (30 March 2017)

Here is the latest poll on 18c......The majority say NO they don't want it.

https://www.votocrat.com/susane.lis...on-18c-racial-discrimination-act-in-australia

https://www.votocrat.com/susane.lis...-are-protecting-muslim-criminals-do-you-agree


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## noco (30 March 2017)

Why can't our dumb politicians take note of what the majority of Australians want instead of protecting a few radicals?

https://www.votocrat.com/susane.lis...on-18c-racial-discrimination-act-in-australia


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## McLovin (30 March 2017)

noco said:


> Why can't our dumb politicians take note of what the majority of Australians want instead of protecting a few radicals?
> 
> https://www.votocrat.com/susane.lis...on-18c-racial-discrimination-act-in-australia




Lol. Scientific no doubt. Was the question written by someone for whom English is not their first language, because it makes no sense?


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## luutzu (30 March 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Political correctness gone mad ?
> 
> Are our university students so soft that they can't face reality ?
> 
> ...




There's some uproar in the US recently when a uni professor assign an essay assignment asking students to discuss 9/11 from the perspective of the terrorists.

I'm guessing the professor won't be giving a A to anyone who think it's because of Islam, hating our freedom and values.


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## SirRumpole (31 March 2017)

luutzu said:


> I'm guessing the professor won't be giving a A to anyone who think it's because of Islam, hating our freedom and values.




Why not ?


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## Tink (31 March 2017)

18C was put in at a later date, and imv, is not needed.
All discussions should be sorted on the ground, not through lawyers.

Freedom of speech has always been a part of our society on the ground.
We grew up respecting all people, men and women and children.

Our culture, our laws, our values are based on Christian values, cultural Christians.
Volunteers are a big part of our society.
It is about helping others, not necessarily on a monetary system.
We seem to have put a money value on people.
Manners etc.
Being grateful.

It has got to the point now where people are too afraid to speak, or jump in to help other people, which is not what this country was built on.

Being a traditionalist, I look back and I see the good of this country, of course there were bad in certain parts, but highlighting the bad over the good, is not realistic, imv.
These people seem to look back and see only bad.
Rather than bringing forward the beauty, we seem to be bringing forward the ugly.

That cartoon of the aborigines, whether black or white, if there is a problem, there is a problem.
These were cartoons, not professional paintings.


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## Jorgensen (31 March 2017)

Charlie Hedbo liked cartoons.


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## Gringotts Bank (31 March 2017)

luutzu said:


> There's some uproar in the US recently when a uni professor assign an essay assignment asking students to discuss 9/11 from the perspective of the terrorists.




It's an excellent idea.  Forces students to ask:

1- what on earth happened in the past to make Muslim extremists that angry?  Is there anything that US forces did to provoke this violence?  If not, then...

2- what sort of belief system permits/allows/encourages such extreme behaviour?

The power of belief is much, much greater than most people understand.  Imagine actually thinking that you'd be rewarded in an afterlife for blowing up a building.


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## luutzu (31 March 2017)

Gringotts Bank said:


> It's an excellent idea.  Forces students to ask:
> 
> 1- what on earth happened in the past to make Muslim extremists that angry?  Is there anything that US forces did to provoke this violence?  If not, then...
> 
> ...




Yea, it's a great idea. Something a political science course ought to ask and debate on. But yea, heard some in the media etc. accused the professor of sympathising with the terrorists for asking students to do that.

Eisenhower's administration did ask the same question: Why do they hate US.

His State Dept. [or CIA, can't remember] came back and find that apparently they hate us because "they think" we prop up despots who suppresses them and their country's development; have military bases on their soil and stealing their oil.

Is this true?

Yea, of course it is.

So what's the solution? Get out?

No no... we should put more effort into telling them why what we're doing is actually good for them. 


I'm not making that up.


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## luutzu (31 March 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Why not ?




That's what the professor will be asking. 

And quoting US military, senior officials and its then "war president" might not qualify as objective analysis.


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## noco (31 March 2017)

Who are the real enemies holding back changes to 18C?......

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/a...c/news-story/14444d154c6fce8b417a3288a3269e95


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## Tink (1 April 2017)

_Australia maintains the traditions of the Western, Judeo‑Christian Civilisation, the finest Civilisation of all time.

If you support Western Civilisation, the best civilisation we have ever had, 

18c must go._
--------------------------------------------------


https://www.aussiestockforums.com/threads/the-lunatic-left.31648/


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## SirRumpole (1 April 2017)

Tink said:


> _Australia maintains the traditions of the Western, Judeo‑Christian Civilisation, the finest Civilisation of all time.
> 
> If you support Western Civilisation, the best civilisation we have ever had,
> 
> ...




I don't believe that hurt feelings are a sufficient reason to drag people through the Courts and waste public money and the Court's time.

I would be quite happy if "insult or offend" were replaced by "harrassed". It just shows how much clout the Perpetual Victims Society has on some of our politicians.


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## Tisme (1 April 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> I don't believe that hurt feelings are a sufficient reason to drag people through the Courts and waste public money and the Court's time.
> 
> I would be quite happy if "insult or offend" were replaced by "harrassed". It just shows how much clout the Perpetual Victims Society has on some of our politicians.





What do you expect from a country relatively recently swamped by people with self ascribed victim written all over them?


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## noco (1 April 2017)

Instead of expecting politicians to make a decision, I believe there should be a referendum or a plebiscite  to settle this matter.......A majority of people want it abolished altogether.......18c is just another way of controlling our lives. 

https://m.votocrat.com/susane.lisa/...scrimination-act-to-be-abolished-in-australia


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## SirRumpole (1 April 2017)

Tisme said:


> What do you expect from a country relatively recently swamped by people with self ascribed victim written all over them?




I would hope that our politicians would hold our established rights sacred and not pander to the few.


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## luutzu (1 April 2017)

Tink said:


> _Australia maintains the traditions of the Western, Judeo‑Christian Civilisation, the finest Civilisation of all time.
> 
> If you support Western Civilisation, the best civilisation we have ever had,
> 
> ...





hmmm... Western civilisation does have its merits. But to call it "the finest Civilisation of all time" kinda skip a whole lot of bad.


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## SirRumpole (1 April 2017)

luutzu said:


> hmmm... Western civilisation does have its merits. But to call it "the finest Civilisation of all time" kinda skip a whole lot of bad.




There is probably not much point discussing the merits of various civilisations as they all have their good and bad points, but democracy (imperfect as it is) arose in the "West" and that is the best form of civilisation I can think of unless you have any other suggestions ?


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## luutzu (1 April 2017)

Democracy came from the Greeks. Long before Judaeo-Christian value stuff. 

That and beside the brief few generations in ancient Greece, about 200 years before the fall of the Roman Republic to the Caesars, democracy as we can brag about didn't really happen to any Western "democracies" until about WWI.

Before that, it's rule by (Christian) Kings, Popes, Emperors then Lords and Barons. i.e. democracy only ever applied to White Males of noble birth and the landed merchants. 

A more democratic period would be from 1945 to about the late 70s. 

That's when the great unwashed get to vote and have policies that benefit them quite a bit. All that's gone.

------------

As to the idea of Democracy - rule for the benefit of the people, the masses - it's not unique to the Greeks or Western civilisation. I've read treatises on what you can call "democratic" values in works by Confucius and Hsun Tzu. You know, those who give to the people gain the people; those who gain the people gain the world. Then from Hsun Tzu, there's quite some detailed discussion on how the Emperor can rule more effectively through giving people more rights, more freedom... 

There's that Imperial Exams that open all political offices to learned men. i.e. Study hard, past the exams and anyone become magistrates and Senators from the local village all the way up to the Forbidden City.

That's quite democratic and meritocratic too.  

I mean, if we define Democracy as turning up to the ballot now and then to pick whoever is put in front of us, Communist China and Vietnam, Islamic Republic of Iran are also Democracies. So too is Turkey and a bunch of other "rogue" states. 

Remember too that the US Founding Fathers have explicitly stated that democracy is bs. The country is to be ruled by wise and enlightened men. Who are those men? The rich ones of course. How can people be rich if they're not wise? Right?

James Madison, the chief architect of the US Constitution, argued this point. Though to his credit he saw how wrong he was towards the end of his life when those "wise men" prove to be corrupt and self-serving instead of being patriotic and caring for the national interests - i.e. interests and welfare of the masses (not corporations).

So while Western Democracies have come a long way and there are a whole lot of rights the masses have won. It's being taken away (for our safety against terrorism, of course) and I'm afraid what we're going to be left with is just turning up and check a box or two then get back to work and blame Muslims and immigrants for everything bad.


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## Tink (2 April 2017)

Luutzu, that was from the article that was said in parliament.

I have said this before, that every single person that arrived in this country has gone through hardship, be it black, white, man, woman or child.

Apart from languages being different, a majority just got on with it and slotted in the country -- our laws, our culture.

That is my view.


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## luutzu (2 April 2017)

Tink said:


> Luutzu, that was from the article that was said in parliament.
> 
> I have said this before, that every single person that arrived in this country has gone through hardship, be it black, white, man, woman or child.
> 
> ...




Australia is a great country with generally good people. There's a few Pauline Hansons and Tony Abbotts here and there, but it is a big country and all countries have them. 

Point trying to make is that Australia as it is today - with social safety net for the poor and seniors; racial equality, or at least anti-racial discrimination; law and order; good infrastructure and a high standard of living and racial harmony among generally generous people etc. - these things weren't always there, and didn't come about because of some "Christian" value and Western civilisation being the greatest in the world, or something.

They came about because Australians are overwhelmingly liberal and progressive, they fought for these rights. It weren't handed down from politicians or the Church.

Were those Australians who fought for these civil rights mainly "White" and mostly "Christian". Of course they were. So while Western/Christian value might play some part in their upbringing, it's more about them having a conscience and being good rather than just a Westerner.

I mean, Christianity has been around for over 2000 years right? Christian kingdoms and empires had fought each other pretty much all through those entire couple millennia until just some 70 odd years ago. They stopped because they probably figured out that if they keep at it, they'll wipe each other out. So let's stick together and fight defenceless brown Muslims or something 

Idea is, if we think that a country like Australia is great because it just is, because it's a Western Democracy with Christian value and heritage, hence it is awesome regardless of what it does. Well... history is full of examples of such self-glorifying civilisation who was great, then disappear or became a basket case.

Just look at China during most of the 20th century.


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## Tink (2 April 2017)

Well for being progressive, they don't believe in freedom of speech.

Therefore I call them Communists.


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## luutzu (2 April 2017)

Tink said:


> Well for being progressive, they don't believe in freedom of speech.
> 
> Therefore I call them Communists.




Freedom doesn't have to mean the right to insult, offend and humiliate people, right?

That's like arguing that school bullies should have the freedom to beat up nerds. That to give them a detention or suspension is curbing their freedom. 

Anyway, while we're arguing over our rights to put people of another race down, big (and small, of course) businesses are getting 16% [5% down from 30%] tax reduction and there's hardly a proper debate on whether we can afford that, or whether that is ultimately good for the country, its poor and workers.


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## Tink (2 April 2017)

_The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help._

_Man is not free unless government is limited._
----------------------------

You are entitled to your opinion, Luutzu.


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## luutzu (2 April 2017)

Tink said:


> _The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help._
> 
> _Man is not free unless government is limited._
> ----------------------------
> ...





I bet Queenslanders being flooded don't find those words and deeds from the gov't too terrifying.

While it's true that gov't should not dictate everything we do, we shouldn't mistake that to mean they should never do anything for us. 

That kind of "gov't is the problem" nonsense, mix with phrases like freedom and liberty... it's all designed so that the masses would hate and abandon the only democratic institution that can help them. And that's not my opinion, it's insights from the likes of Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky - both of whom observed that by merely reading what state planners and business titans have been saying.

I mean, Big Brother is more than just keeping eyes on us and taking our lunch money. He's our only hope against the might and corruption of Big Everything. To waive that kind of power in a democracy where, technically speaking, we plebs do hold great sway over Him seems a great waste.

The problem in all societies is never really about race or religion. It has always been about class, wealth and its inequality.

That's why you have civil wars in just about all countries since the beginning of recorded history. One group of pure blood takes all the money and all the power unto themselves, all at the expense and starvation of those from the same blood and skin tone, just somehow inferior in some other ways - like not being imbreded into wealth and privileged. 

So yea, keep fighting for that right to insult people, and that right to not have homosexuals ruining that perfect marriage between a man and a woman... all the while watch as $50B a year [? Must be a heck of a lot more than that right?] get taken away from everyone who do not own a business, then sit back and wonder when it's gonna come trickling down on us.


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## Tisme (2 April 2017)

Clever

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/04/0...ive-action-lion-king-remake-disney-confirms/?


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## SirRumpole (2 April 2017)

Tisme said:


> Clever
> 
> http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/04/0...ive-action-lion-king-remake-disney-confirms/?




FFS, 5% of the population are propaganderising the other 95% and trying to pretend that their activities are 'normal' and should be embraced by the rest of us.

It's about time we told them to stop foisting their deviances onto the majority.

Even Dr Who has been corrupted.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...n-bill-is-gay-peter-capaldi-bbc-a7660931.html


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## Boggo (2 April 2017)

This should solve some of the propaganda issues !
http://www.xyz.net.au/abc-announces-waleed-aly-as-new-host-of-playschool/


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## luutzu (2 April 2017)

Tisme said:


> Clever
> 
> http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/04/0...ive-action-lion-king-remake-disney-confirms/?




It's still April's Fool in the UK right?


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## noco (2 April 2017)

luutzu said:


> Freedom doesn't have to mean the right to insult, offend and humiliate people, right?
> 
> That's like arguing that school bullies should have the freedom to beat up nerds. That to give them a detention or suspension is curbing their freedom.
> 
> Anyway, while we're arguing over our rights to put people of another race down, big (and small, of course) businesses are getting 16% [5% down from 30%] tax reduction and there's hardly a proper debate on whether we can afford that, or whether that is ultimately good for the country, its poor and workers.




It is not a matter whether we can afford it or not, it is a matter of competition with other countries like the USA going down to 15% and the UK and Singapore below 20%......You won't encourage investment into Australia with higher tax rates.....Even Chris Bowen, Bill Shorten and Andrew Leigh all agree...Investment means more progress, more projects and less unemployment...More jobs.


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## McLovin (2 April 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> There is probably not much point discussing the merits of various civilisations as they all have their good and bad points, but democracy (imperfect as it is) arose in the "West" and that is the best form of civilisation I can think of unless you have any other suggestions ?




Democracy is a north-west European thing (thanks to the Reformation), not a "western" ideal. The rest of Europe joined the party very late – we only need to go back a few decades to see most of "Judeo-Christian" Europe under a very different form of government, and I don't just mean Eastern Europe. How long has democracy existed for anyone who wasn't a landowning, white male in the West? One hundred years or so.


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## luutzu (3 April 2017)

noco said:


> It is not a matter whether we can afford it or not, it is a matter of competition with other countries like the USA going down to 15% and the UK and Singapore below 20%......You won't encourage investment into Australia with higher tax rates.....Even Chris Bowen, Bill Shorten and Andrew Leigh all agree...Investment means more progress, more projects and less unemployment...More jobs.




A race to the bottom might not be the best route to take.

These kind of trickling down economics have been tried before. It hasn't work out anywhere.

Giving away our money to multinationals isn't a smart way of making ourselves richer, right? I mean, multinationals can spend it however, wherever they want. What make us think they'll spend it back here? What stops them from going to another country and pull the same "competitive" crap?


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## Tink (3 April 2017)

Agree, Rumpole.

imv, and Tisme brought it up a while back, it is about trying to break down our laws.
Bill Leak was trying to speak through his cartoons, but he was quickly silenced by the government.

Luutzu, the government is not our parents.
I feel for all those in Qld and NSW in the floods, and I hope they are all OK.
I also hope they are insured, and that people take responsibility.

I also don't appreciate the government going around telling children that parents aren't important, and putting lawyers and doctors, as I was told, in public schools as it is happening in Vic.
I also don't appreciate their attack on families.

I have said this before, that I am disgusted the way they are talking about our forefathers, people that went to war.
Men would tip their hats to women, stand up and let a woman sit.
My family was brought up like that.
How do they see that as violent?

imv, it is not a true indication of history, and what is being told to our children.


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## Tisme (3 April 2017)

luutzu said:


> A race to the bottom might not be the best route to take.
> 
> These kind of trickling down economics have been tried before. It hasn't work out anywhere.
> 
> Giving away our money to multinationals isn't a smart way of making ourselves richer, right? I mean, multinationals can spend it however, wherever they want. What make us think they'll spend it back here? What stops them from going to another country and pull the same "competitive" crap?




There is no shortage of people wanting to park their money in Australia, but we don't have anything left to give them a ROI. The future fund, QIC, etc can't find anything to invest in here either because we are ostensibly still a colonial style economy with private enterprise dependent on govt expenditure and pensions by any other name... even basic services like power plants can't sustain themselves in the absence of large scale industry to provide economies of scale.


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## luutzu (3 April 2017)

Tisme said:


> There is no shortage of people wanting to park their money in Australia, but we don't have anything left to give them a ROI. The future fund, QIC, etc can't find anything to invest in here either because we are ostensibly still a colonial style economy with private enterprise dependent on govt expenditure and pensions by any other name... even basic services like power plants can't sustain themselves in the absence of large scale industry to provide economies of scale.




Sounds like we need to invest in our own infrastructure and other nation-building projects and industry. 

That should create jobs, make some noise towards that innovation boom, and the country ends up with a few white elephants to look at. 

Beats giving tax breaks and other welfare payment to entice multinationals.


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## luutzu (3 April 2017)

Tink said:


> Agree, Rumpole.
> 
> imv, and Tisme brought it up a while back, it is about trying to break down our laws.
> Bill Leak was trying to speak through his cartoons, but he was quickly silenced by the government.
> ...




The gov't is supposed to be our Big Brother. Well, they're supposed to be working for us, seeing how we're a democracy and stuff, but I'd settled for Big Brother who's supposed to do more than perving on me. 

The gov't would never attack our (yours?) forefathers. Not in the way you think they do. They only attack the forefathers who's poor, broke and need welfare... in that sense, they also attack the kids, the widows and orphans, both Muslims and White.

In terms of attacking the pioneering, genocidal forefathers, those you have to blame the hippies. And hippies don't work for The Man.

Seriously though, a country cannot grow and be more civilised if it just swept all its crimes under the rug as though it didn't happen. That's not to say the current generation is to blame and things, just that it did happen, let's try to recognise why it happened and prevent it. Maybe that kind of understanding give us insight into the consequences that's still around.

That or we can be Tony Abbott, camp out with the Aborigines to get to know them, then shrugs off any understanding as to why a few cents going towards helping them shouldn't be cut. I mean, it's not Tony's fault people "decided" to live on the fringes in the outback and such places. 

Going to war is not a good thing. We ought to only go when it's necessary to defend our country. So going off to the Middle East with the British to take Troy from the barbarians; or into Iraq and all over the ME, again, to not take oil from the barbarians... that's some serious stuff we ought to think real hard on.

I mean, idiot politicians sitting safely at their desk ordering other people's kids to war for empire and exercise and manhood (I'm not making that up, they actually think that)... it's not something we should permit or be proud of.

A medal and a title won't cut it for the parents, family and friends of our dead troops.


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## SirRumpole (3 April 2017)

luutzu said:


> I mean, idiot politicians sitting safely at their desk ordering other people's kids to war for empire and exercise and manhood (I'm not making that up, they actually think that)... it's not something we should permit or be proud of.




The manhood stuff may have applied a hundred years ago but it's much less likely now that we don't have conscription and therefore no cheap cannon fodder to send elsewhere to fight someone else's battles.

Politicians have to think two or three times before committing expensive equipment and highly trained soldiers to a conflict.

That doesn't mean they always get it right. The only reason we have followed the US into wars is an expectation that they will help us if we need it in return for our 'service' to them.

That type of decision making is usually described as 'in our national interest'.


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## luutzu (3 April 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> The manhood stuff may have applied a hundred years ago but it's much less likely now that we don't have conscription and therefore no cheap cannon fodder to send elsewhere to fight someone else's battles.
> 
> Politicians have to think two or three times before committing expensive equipment and highly trained soldiers to a conflict.
> 
> ...




I think you're right there that that's the thinking of our politicians. Not sure it make much sense though.

For one, say Australia doesn't want to buy American jets and US-friendly submarines. Doesn't go to its wars. Would that mean the US won't "protect" us if some yellow peril knock at our gates?

The US, like any other country, would only intervene if at that moment it serves their interests to do so. History and what we've done for them... As Janet Jackson sang, it's what have you done for me lately, right?

So even if we don't buy their hardware or fight with them on their many adventures, it still serve their national and global hegemonic design to step in when/if we're being pushed around anyway.

Why?

We're brothers. hehe

Any country that takes over Australia will necessarily take over the entire Asia-Pacific region. That will literally divide the world in half. i.e. US air and marine fleet will have a harder time crossing these oceans.

That and look at all of our natural resources. They could fuel and feed a China for a couple hundred years and then some. So the US would be nuts to not come to "our aid".

But of course they know that. Our politicians don't want to risk that seeing what happened to Whitlam when he start questioning things like CIA operatives in Australia, the need for US military bases. That, according to the US, put "Australia's national interest" at risk and so Whitlam have to go.

Howard, and all except maybe Rudd, learnt and so bend over real hard to stay in office and not have some party rebellion pushing them out of a cushy job as leader.


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## Tisme (2 May 2017)




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## wayneL (2 May 2017)

I guess that makes my skin light black?


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## luutzu (2 May 2017)

wayneL said:


> I guess that makes my skin light black?




aka Albino, Sifu.


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## sptrawler (29 May 2017)

I guess this is the result of political correctness, no one makes a decision, then who is to blame when it goes pear shaped.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/lindt-caf...d-dangerous-psychiatrist-20170529-gwfssu.html

Sad really. Police can't make a decision, because the psyc says no, military don't want to know.
What chance do we have? 
Big group hug I guess, we obviously are a bunch of lost souls.


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## Tisme (30 May 2017)

sptrawler said:


> I guess this is the result of political correctness, no one makes a decision, then who is to blame when it goes pear shaped.
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/lindt-caf...d-dangerous-psychiatrist-20170529-gwfssu.html
> 
> ...





I thought psychiatrists were behaviour modifying chemical engineers...not diagnostic social engineers?


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## noco (30 May 2017)

It is all stupidity at its best introduced by a few mentally deranged people.


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## Tink (27 July 2017)

I posted this yesterday about the gender benders..

*The Orwellian nightmare of transgender politics*

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsit...re-of-transgender-politics/20116#.WXkPUdR97Dd


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## SirRumpole (16 August 2017)

Posted on another thread, but I think it deserves to go into a thread dealing with PC looniness in general.

FFS, the nanny State is well and truly alive, and it's not all to do with welfare.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-...es-to-ban-references-to-australia-day/8810286


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## Tisme (16 August 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Posted on another thread, but I think it deserves to go into a thread dealing with PC looniness in general.
> 
> FFS, the nanny State is well and truly alive, and it's not all to do with welfare.
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-...es-to-ban-references-to-australia-day/8810286




There is a determined effort to wreck every vestige of Australian tradition. I think we are in for a rapid ride into losing any identity we may have had and will become just another beige, ordered society.

The USA is looking more appealing to me as each day goes by.


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## moXJO (16 August 2017)

> Yarra council, which covers suburbs including Richmond, Collingwood and Fitzroy, is made up of four Greens councillors, two from Labor, two independents and a member of the Socialist Alliance.



That says it all.
The whole of Vic and SA is a write off and should be fenced off from the rest of Australia.


----------



## Wysiwyg (16 August 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Posted on another thread, but I think it deserves to go into a thread dealing with PC looniness in general.
> 
> FFS, the nanny State is well and truly alive, and it's not all to do with welfare.



She lied at the end when she said "we're doing what we can to represent our community views". At the start she said they street surveyed and interviewed 300 people. Oh I don't think this decision s going to be very popular.


----------



## SirRumpole (16 August 2017)

Wysiwyg said:


> She lied at the end when she said "we're doing what we can to represent our community views". At the start she said they street surveyed and interviewed 300 people. Oh I don't think this decision s going to be very popular.




The whole council interference thing is absurd. The date of Australia Day is a national decision, not for one tinpot council.

They should stick to maintaining the roads and services and leave such things to the Federal level.


----------



## Wysiwyg (16 August 2017)

Tisme said:


> There is a determined effort to wreck every vestige of Australian tradition.



There is a disruptive theme invading the psyche. Change fanatics wanting to disrupt and change things for the sake of it. I am going down to the local council now and demanding compensation for being born in Australia.
*Stop the appeasement now I say. *


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (16 August 2017)

Wysiwyg said:


> There is a disruptive theme invading the psyche. Change fanatics wanting to disrupt and change things for the sake of it. I am going down to the local council now and demanding compensation for being born in Australia.
> *Stop the appeasement now I say. *




The enemy should be referred to as Left Fascists, which is what they are Wysiwyg. 

They are not Change fanatics or disrupters. 

They are Left Fascists.

gg


----------



## Tisme (16 August 2017)

Interesting article:

http://www.independent.org/printer.asp?page=/newsroom/article.asp?id=8932



> The notion of political correctness came into use among Communists in the 1930s as a semi-humorous reminder that _the Party’s interest is to be treated as a reality that ranks above reality itself_......


----------



## Tisme (24 August 2017)

http://www.themandarin.com.au/82777...n-rights-gillian-triggs/#.WZ0UWdOFz2s.twitter




> Public servants must be “eternally vigilant in maintaining their tradition of frank and fearless advice based on evidence” in the post-truth era, according to former Australian Human Rights Commission president Gillian Triggs.
> 
> “I think there has been a definite trend in Australia for public servants to be more concerned about doing what the minister’s asked them to do, than they have working collaboratively with the minister to inform them about evidence-based policy,” she said this morning, in an hour-long keynote speech to the Power to Persuade academic conference.


----------



## SirRumpole (24 August 2017)

The black armband brigade are at it again...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-...whitewash-slave-history-islanders-say/8838984


----------



## SirRumpole (24 August 2017)

Safe Schools lives on...

*Canberra Liberal claims Safe Schools program asks students to fantasise about same gender*

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-...tudents-being-groomed-by-safe-schools/8840158


----------



## Tisme (25 August 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Safe Schools lives on...
> 
> *Canberra Liberal claims Safe Schools program asks students to fantasise about same gender*
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-...tudents-being-groomed-by-safe-schools/8840158




There has to be a case for schools, youth clubs, scouts etc, to have cleanouts every two years so the grubs and predators who are sexually attracted to children can't work their manipulation. 

I'm not sure why the need to groom and recruit children into homosexual lifestyles, but they will surely succeed given the easy success of convincing much of the population that gay behaviour is involuntary and deserving of the pity vote for equality in all things once reserved for normal people.

"She then claimed teachers were asking 13-year-old female students to fantasise about other girls" salacious voyerism by people who are supposed to be teaching.


----------



## Tisme (27 August 2017)




----------



## Smurf1976 (27 August 2017)

Wysiwyg said:


> There is a disruptive theme invading the psyche. Change fanatics wanting to disrupt and change things for the sake of it.



It's no secret that one way to the top in management is to do just that.

Come in, change lots of things to create the impression that you "fixed" whatever the supposed problem was, then be very sure to move on before the s*** hits the fan due to all the things you messed up for which your replacement will now get the blame thus further reinforcing the notion that you did a good job.

That one has been around for a very long time and it's not confined to politics. Nothing new there and plenty have used it as a way to climb the ladder.


----------



## SirRumpole (27 August 2017)

Smurf1976 said:


> Come in, change lots of things to create the impression that you "fixed" whatever the supposed problem was, then be very sure to move on before the s*** hits the fan due to all the things you messed up for which your replacement will now get the blame thus further reinforcing the notion that you did a good job.




The reason for every change of government in history.


----------



## basilio (27 August 2017)

Tisme said:


> There has to be a case for schools, youth clubs, scouts etc, to have cleanouts every two years so the grubs and predators who are sexually attracted to children can't work their manipulation.
> 
> I'm not sure why the need to groom and recruit children into homosexual lifestyles, but they will surely succeed given the easy success of convincing much of the population that gay behaviour is involuntary and deserving of the pity vote for equality in all things once reserved for normal people.
> 
> "She then claimed teachers were asking 13-year-old female students to fantasise about other girls" salacious voyerism by people who are supposed to be teaching.





And you simply accept these assertions ? No concerns they might be trumped up comments to create anti gay hysteria? 
Tisme you posted a video of an off the wall mother complaining about the Safe School program. Turns out that was pretty specious as well

And what in God's name do you mean by "*having clean out every 2 years in schools, youth clubs, scouts"?*  Who gets cleaned ? Why ? What have they done ? Or should everyone be arbitarily sacked as a matter of course ?


----------



## Tisme (28 August 2017)

basilio said:


> And you simply accept these assertions ? No concerns they might be trumped up comments to create anti gay hysteria?
> Tisme you posted a video of an off the wall mother complaining about the Safe School program. Turns out that was pretty specious as well
> 
> And what in God's name do you mean by "*having clean out every 2 years in schools, youth clubs, scouts"?*  Who gets cleaned ? Why ? What have they done ? Or should everyone be arbitarily sacked as a matter of course ?





The kids come first basilio. The fact that this appalling behaviour persists is because it is allowed to be passed on from elders to young minds. 

God has nothing to do with the social malaise that is quarantined from public scrutiny because it might hurt the feelings or cause discomfort to those holding positions of influence over young minds. Those that would groom children without compunction. 

It's a disease that has been skirted, but now we are throwing everything on the table for revision we need to put this issue front and centre and perhaps many of those other govt sponsored social protections put around the fringe people won't be necessary because those fringe people will die out as Spencer's "survival of the fittest" dictates. 

There is no hysteria in demanding social justice for the majority decent people at the expense of the tribal trash. That's how we civilised people have in the past and continue to shape the world of the future into something free and good. We are obliged to protect our innocent youth from the mass hysteria that seems to be sweeping the world for change of our basic morality, an hysteria that pushes us one more step to an all out religious world war.


----------



## Tisme (28 August 2017)

The Gammon Man's bust must be next for the left grafitti vandals, e.g. Malcolm and his trusty spray can.


----------



## basilio (29 August 2017)

I think, we need a bit of lite relief in this heavy topic of Politcal Correctness Gone Rampant.
Anyone for First Dog on the Moon ?

* Leftists are rewriting history to suit their gender fluid Aboriginal industry anti-Christian agenda *




First Dog on the Moon
Clancy Dackbulge is joined by Babbage Vonschnauzerschnitzel to discuss the left – are they taking over everything yes they are
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...uid-aboriginal-industry-anti-christian-agenda


----------



## basilio (29 August 2017)

Tisme said:


> The kids come first basilio. The fact that this appalling behaviour persists is because it is allowed to be passed on from elders to young minds.
> 
> God has nothing to do with the social malaise that is quarantined from public scrutiny because it might hurt the feelings or cause discomfort to those holding positions of influence over young minds. Those that would groom children without compunction.
> 
> ...




Is the disease Homosexuality ? Must we gird our loins, sharpen our swords and ensure that the pernacious influence of nonstraights is squashed before it has  a chance to infect our precious children ?


----------



## wayneL (29 August 2017)

The moon seems to figure av lot in the Grauniad

The Moonbat

First Dog on the Moon

Moon -> Lun -> Lunacy -> Loonie -> Loonie Left

It makes sense


----------



## basilio (29 August 2017)

wayneL said:


> The moon seems to figure av lot in the Grauniad
> 
> The Moonbat
> 
> ...




Don't worry Wayne. With your special senses you wouldn't be able to understand anything in The Guardian anyway. It's only for the select few you know.  (Cheesy smile.)


----------



## moXJO (29 August 2017)

basilio said:


> Don't worry Wayne. With your special senses you wouldn't be able to understand anything in The Guardian anyway. It's only for the select few you know.  (Cheesy smile.)




Yeah Wayne, you're not unemployed enough to 'get' the Guardian.


----------



## wayneL (29 August 2017)

moXJO said:


> Yeah Wayne, you're not unemployed enough to 'get' the Guardian.



It was quite an interesting tactic to sooth their self absorbed absurdity, mo.

Satirizing themself to their own echo chamber, as if there was some sort of irony, thereby creating an actual irony.

Meanwhile, those normal well adjusted folk, half interested enough to read what those Orwellian misanthropes are writing, are thinking, "well duuuuh".


----------



## PZ99 (29 August 2017)

wayneL said:


> The moon seems to figure av lot in the Grauniad
> 
> The Moonbat
> 
> ...



It might be politically correct to say that you are right. 

So I'll just say you are correct instead


----------



## Tisme (30 August 2017)

wayneL said:


> It was quite an interesting tactic to sooth their self absorbed absurdity, mo.
> 
> Satirizing themself to their own echo chamber, as if there was some sort of irony, thereby creating an actual irony.
> 
> Meanwhile, those normal well adjusted folk, half interested enough to read what those Orwellian misanthropes are writing, are thinking, "well duuuuh".





Trying to use sarcastic absurdity so that commonsense fact appears ludicrous. Are they misanthropes or just vandals? That article is the kind of hysterical logic girls bang on with when going through puberty and dad goes fishing.

I think they, and many others who rally for controlled social order, are actually the plutocratic dystopians masquerading as plebians. They use the opiate of dissension to indoctrinate, inculcate and iteratively persuade the brainwashable to do their bidding.


----------



## Tisme (30 August 2017)

basilio said:


> Is the disease Homosexuality ? Must we gird our loins, sharpen our swords and ensure that the pernacious influence of nonstraights is squashed before it has  a chance to infect our precious children ?




I notice how you clap onto the baits, but ignore the truths. This IS a social disease that will usurp the current social order. 

Everything comes at a price and while the new social soldiers like you crave for no other reason than change for the sake of change, you'll still be chanting how righteous it was when the society you championed sinks inexorably into a modern Sodom of free for all.

And when the Caliphates come to town, you'll hide from them and deny you ever had any hand in sharpening the thin end of the wedge that relegated good people as fossils of an unenlightened past.


----------



## Tisme (20 September 2017)

Why didn't someone tell me the term "Aborigine" is now white man's slight on whatever we can call the people who were here before British colonisation?

Getting savaged on Twitter


----------



## SirRumpole (20 September 2017)

Tisme said:


> Why didn't someone tell me the term "Aborigine" is now white man's slight on whatever we can call the people who were here before British colonisation?
> 
> Getting savaged on Twitter




What do they want to be called ? "First Australians", "original owners" , "wise and knowledgable ones" ?


----------



## Tisme (20 September 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> What do they want to be called ? "First Australians", "original owners" , "wise and knowledgable ones" ?





No apparently we have to learn the various regional languages as first port of call

 e.g. Wiradjuri and another 150  odd that are still used
then 
tribal names 
e.g. 
Nyoongah = WA
Palawa =Tasmania 
Murri=Qld and north west NSW •
Koori = NSW 
Yolngu = Arnhem Land
Ngarrindjeri = SA 
Nunga =SA
Anangu = Central Australia 
Koorie = Vic


----------



## basilio (20 September 2017)

So Tisme you believe Homosexuality IS a social disease that will ursp the social order.. Back to the Dark Ages are we ?

I'm not craving change for the sake of change. I just realise and accept that people have a very wide range of differences  including their sexual preferances. Treating these differances  as something to be despised and feared and by, logical extension,  outlawed and persecuted is IMO profoundly wrong.

There is a world where your views become real Tizme. The Handmaids Tale explores these themes exceptionally well.


----------



## moXJO (20 September 2017)

Tisme said:


> Why didn't someone tell me the term "Aborigine" is now white man's slight on whatever we can call the people who were here before British colonisation?
> 
> Getting savaged on Twitter




You didn't tell an abo joke did you?


----------



## Tisme (20 September 2017)

moXJO said:


> You didn't tell an abo joke did you?



LOL, no I tend to keep that personsa for this forum.

It was actually a pro aborigine post but I got the rounds anyway


----------



## Tisme (20 September 2017)

basilio said:


> So Tisme you believe Homosexuality IS a social disease that will ursp the social order.. Back to the Dark Ages are we ?
> 
> I'm not craving change for the sake of change. I just realise and accept that people have a very wide range of differences  including their sexual preferances. Treating these differances  as something to be despised and feared and by, logical extension,  outlawed and persecuted is IMO profoundly wrong.
> 
> There is a world where your views become real Tizme. The Handmaids Tale explores these themes exceptionally well.




Wot?


----------



## luutzu (21 September 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> What do they want to be called ? "First Australians", "original owners" , "wise and knowledgable ones" ?




"First Custodian". 

That's what they tell the kids at museums, zoos and other public places. 

It's sounds great too. That the Aboriginals didn't "own" the land, they were simply the first custodian... and we/White folks are of course the second, taking on the responsibilities and so forth. 

Quite impressive how history can be washed. 

Though to be fair, Westerners are actually more polite and apologetic about their (older, done and dusted) imperialism.

The Chinese, the Viets, the Russians etc... it's either "what natives" or "yea, we were also pretty cool and manly too".


----------



## Tisme (22 September 2017)

Apparently BigW have dropped the "Christmas" out of Christmas Tree in their advertising


----------



## Value Collector (22 September 2017)

Tisme said:


> Apparently BigW have dropped the "Christmas" out of Christmas Tree in their advertising



They are still using the word Christmas in their advertising, but it doesn't say Christmas on the box, instead it just describes the tree.

Meh, who cares, really until you decorate it and call it a Christmas tree yourself its just a tree. Christmas trees are just regular pine trees till you decorate them, and these aren't being sold with decorations.

but did you see those prices, thats a bargain, who cares what they are called.


----------



## Tisme (22 September 2017)

Value Collector said:


> They are still using the word Christmas in their advertising, but it doesn't say Christmas on the box, instead it just describes the tree.
> 
> Meh, who cares, really until you decorate it and call it a Christmas tree yourself its just a tree. Christmas trees are just regular pine trees till you decorate them, and these aren't being sold with decorations.
> 
> but did you see those prices, thats a bargain, who cares what they are called.




I'm fairly sure it's a sin not to decorate a foreign tree for xmas.


----------



## Value Collector (22 September 2017)

Tisme said:


> I'm fairly sure it's a sin not to decorate a foreign tree for xmas.



opinions vary, the bible is against cutting and decorating trees, as it says its seen as pagan, and a bunch of christian denominations are against Christmas trees and also the very idea of Christmas, while a bunch of christians denominations love Christmas trees.

Some christians say this bible verse is talking about Christmas trees, others say its not.


> The King James Version reads: “Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen…. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.”


----------



## Junior (22 September 2017)

Value Collector said:


> but did you see those prices, thats a bargain, who cares what they are called.




May have been intentional.  Free marketing!


----------



## SirRumpole (22 September 2017)

I thought everyone used those artificial trees that you just pack away for next year.


----------



## Value Collector (22 September 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> I thought everyone used those artificial trees that you just pack away for next year.




Some people like the smell of a dying pine tree during the holiday season, regardless of the fire hazard and mess,


----------



## basilio (22 September 2017)

We have to give the Hobart Anarchist full points for kicking "political correctness" in the nuts.  He  believes, after long and careful consideration..., that Tony Abbott is just a "xxxxing" worm and after a few beers thinks Tony deserves a Liverpool kiss.

And then does it. But of course he has had a few beers so Tones gets off with a split lip.

Certainly nothing "politically" correct here boys.  Didn't mince words. Just said exactly what he thought of the lying, scheming xxxx.

*Malcolm Turnbull condemns ‘un-Australian’ headbutt attack on Tony Abbott by gay marriage supporter*
THE man who allegedly assaulted Tony Abbott has explained his motivation for the act, saying it had “nothing to do with” same-sex marriage and the former PM “got off lightly”.

Claire Bickers and staff writers with AAP
News Corp Australia NetworkSeptember 22, 20177:02p

*Abbott 'shocked but unscathed' by headbutt*








THE self-described Hobart anarchist charged with assaulting former Prime Minister Tony Abbott says the incident had nothing to do with same sex marriage.

Astro Labe, 38, of North Hobart, said he will argue his impulsive attack on the Liberal MP was motivated his longstanding dislike of Mr Abbott.

He said he had not intended to cause embarrassment to the same sex marriage cause, which he supports.

“It was nothing really remotely to do with that. It’s just about Tony Abbott — The f***ing worm that he is,” Labe told News Corp Australia.

“All it was is I saw Tony Abbott and I’d had half a skinful and I wanted to nut the c***.”
http://www.news.com.au/finance/work...r/news-story/c1008ff94c48135805722cdbf645c307


----------



## bellenuit (22 September 2017)

But political correctness a la The Left has been to demonise Tony Abbott and blame him for all the ills in Australian Society. It is the politically correct mob who will be sanitising the assault as we are currently hearing as in: it was Abbott who opposed a parliamentary vote, so he really is to blame for all the subsequent vitriol and violence including this incident.

Don't be fooled by the condemnation from all sides in relation to this attack. That was what they "had to say" when questioned about the attack. Deep down, many think he deserved it.

The attacker wasn't kicking political correctness in the guts, but instead he was exemplifying what it results in. I know from those whom I regard as politically correct and have talked to about this incident,  that they all think the attack on Abbott was deserved.


----------



## SirRumpole (22 September 2017)

bellenuit said:


> that they all think the attack on Abbott was deserved.




Condone any sort of violence and you are on a slippery slope.

I really can't stand Abbott. The line "better to seek forgiveness than ask permission" relating to his horror budget says it all about the man. He is totally untrustworthy. Some sort of demonstration against him is appropriate, I don't really think head-butting is.


----------



## wayneL (22 September 2017)

Just wow basilio. Hate speech anyone?

Duplicity anyone?

What a putrid individual.


----------



## Tisme (22 September 2017)

wayneL said:


> Just wow basilio. Hate speech anyone?
> 
> Duplicity anyone?
> 
> What a putrid individual.




Hysteria mounting as the troops line up to advocate for violence and hate for fear people are recognising the facile arguments aren't true .... SSM is hurting people when they said it wouldn't hurt anyone. We have three active hetro haters on this forum and they are getting very skitzy.


----------



## cynic (22 September 2017)

I am caught wondering whether the underlying principles of political correctness are able to accommodate the perceived need for correction of those exhibiting politically incorrect behaviour.

Can a, politically correct, correction of the politically incorrect, truly exist?


----------



## Wysiwyg (22 September 2017)

cynic said:


> Can a, politically correct, correction of the politically incorrect, truly exist?



"Shuzan held out his short staff and said, “If you call this a short staff, you oppose its reality. If you do not call it a short staff, you ignore the fact. Now what do you wish to call this?”


----------



## basilio (22 September 2017)

It's just so tough being "politically correct ".  Or incorrect  ?  Or ambivalent ?  Or truly not giving a sxxx what some tossers think.

Wysiwyg I liked your riddle.  Clever and complex.. Will have to ponder it's possibilities.

Re the Saintly Right Honourable Mr Tony Abbott. Couldn't you see how I was celebrating the incedible opportunity he had to become a  True Martyr for the Cause ? Some dopey twit has given him and his Neathandrals the opportunity of a lifetime to tar every Liberal cause with the righteous indignation only a true Abbotonian could muster.


----------



## basilio (22 September 2017)

Perhaps, perhaps we could call the Short Staff... Tizzie Cynic ?  Or maybe Wayney ? That has ring to it doesn't it?

I thought this source added something to the discussion.
http://tedscott.aampersanda.com/2009/08/27/dualism/


----------



## Wysiwyg (23 September 2017)

basilio said:


> Wysiwyg I liked your riddle.  Clever and complex.. Will have to ponder it's possibilities.



Not my koan. Touched on some Japanese ZEN when soul searching years ago and the koans are pleasing to read. Questions what we call reality.


----------



## Tisme (23 September 2017)

basilio said:


> Perhaps, perhaps we could call the Short Staff... Tizzie Cynic ?  Or maybe Wayney ? That has ring to it doesn't it?
> 
> I thought this source added something to the discussion.
> http://tedscott.aampersanda.com/2009/08/27/dualism/





You just can't wash it out of your hair can you bas.

It's not like I didn't warn you and your cohorts of doing war with the righteous and correct.

And deep down you do know it's the virtuous, like myself who give you the stable platform to play tiddley winks with societies rules. In countries that have legislated to protect the fringe dwellers you advocate, you wouldn't have a hope in hell of protest at risk of major punative cost and personal freedom.


----------



## Tisme (30 January 2018)

We all see the coppers and fire fighters using a kind of meta talk when explaining a situation, rather than plain English. e.g "person of interest" instead of "suspect".... they seem to be preoccupied with the word "person/s" which in itself discriminates against animals and plural words in the absence of specificity.

I was wondering if the word "bush" (as in trees and scrub) has a lexicon equivalent  that satisfies the need for antiseptic sanitised syntax?


----------



## SirRumpole (30 January 2018)

Tisme said:


> I was wondering if the word "bush" (as in trees and scrub) has a lexicon equivalent that satisfies the need for antiseptic sanitised syntax?




I think it's called "fuel" in the bushfire context.


----------



## Logique (31 January 2018)

wayneL said:


> Just wow basilio. Hate speech anyone?
> Duplicity anyone?
> What a putrid individual.



For the sake of my own sanity, and to avoid useless conflict on this forum, I have placed Bas on Ignore


----------



## SirRumpole (31 January 2018)

Variety is the spice of life. Freedom for all opinions no matter how wacky.


----------



## Tisme (31 January 2018)




----------



## PZ99 (1 February 2018)

Formula One axes grid girls from races to keep up with 'modern day societal norms'

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-01/f1-axes-grid-girls-from-formula-one-races/9381902



|
/\
Two of the best for that decision ​


----------



## SirRumpole (1 February 2018)

PZ99 said:


> Formula One axes grid girls from races to keep up with 'modern day societal norms'
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-01/f1-axes-grid-girls-from-formula-one-races/9381902
> 
> ...




And replaces them with drag Queens (get it ?) 

I suppose cheer leaders at the footy and cricket will be the next to go.


----------



## PZ99 (1 February 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> And replaces them with drag Queens (get it ?)
> 
> I suppose cheer leaders at the footy and cricket will be the next to go.



New Drag Queens theme: _"We will we will block you".... (clap clap clap!)_


----------



## Tisme (2 February 2018)

PZ99 said:


> Formula One axes grid girls from races to keep up with 'modern day societal norms'
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-01/f1-axes-grid-girls-from-formula-one-races/9381902
> 
> ...





"While the practice of employing grid girls has been a staple of Formula 1 grands prix for decades, we feel this custom does not resonate with our brand values and clearly is at odds with modern day societal norms."

 What brand value and societal norms would that be?

My bet is that some idiot allowed an old broiler into the board room.

Next step = equity quotas in the drivers seats, with handicap starts


----------



## PZ99 (2 February 2018)

Equity quotas. That's a good one. Trouble is track owners will close world wide for fear of litigation due to female body parts resonating with the lumps, bumps and kerb-hopping on any circuit.

The upside for us blokes will be the in-car camera shots of cars flipping - yoga for beginners.

Small finger signs on the highway can be replaced by shots of a gravitational abyss


----------



## TikoMike (2 February 2018)

Forget the F1 what about the gender quotas and lowering standards so more women can join our military, police and fire fighters? That's the danger of political correctness where merit gets thrown out the window in jobs where lives are on the line. It's just stupidity.

We also have a feminist defence minister who subsidises sex change surgery for soldiers wasting tax payers money. It's a ******* joke what our country is becoming.


----------



## Tisme (2 February 2018)

TikoMike said:


> Forget the F1 what about the gender quotas and lowering standards so more women can join our military, police and fire fighters? That's the danger of political correctness where merit gets thrown out the window in jobs where lives are on the line. It's just stupidity.
> 
> We also have a feminist defence minister who subsidises sex change surgery for soldiers wasting tax payers money. It's a ******* joke what our country is becoming.




I take it you aren't basilio with a different avatar?


----------



## SirRumpole (2 February 2018)

TikoMike said:


> Forget the F1 what about the gender quotas and lowering standards so more women can join our military, police and fire fighters? That's the danger of political correctness where merit gets thrown out the window in jobs where lives are on the line. It's just stupidity.
> 
> We also have a feminist defence minister who subsidises sex change surgery for soldiers wasting tax payers money. It's a ******* joke what our country is becoming.




Well, some people in the military argue that women can do the job as well as men.

He may be along in a while.


----------



## SirRumpole (2 February 2018)

As far as the Grid girls go, when are people going to lean that some women enjoy exhibiting their sexuality, in the same way as some men enjoy showing off their muscles.

As long as they are not being exploited or assaulted, just standing on the grid is harmless, and if they want to do it I don't see a problem.


----------



## Tisme (2 February 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Well, some people in the military argue that women can do the job as well as men.
> 
> He may be along in a while.



 clever bugger


----------



## Tisme (2 February 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> As far as the Grid girls go, when are people going to lean *that some women enjoy exhibiting their sexuality,* in the same way as some men enjoy showing off their muscles.
> 
> As long as they are not being exploited or assaulted, just standing on the grid is harmless, and if they want to do it I don't see a problem.




Which is why burkas are the rage.....  they let a woman know who's the boss when it comes to what they can and can't do, which must be a good thing, right...especially when it's other misandrist women doing the telling?


----------



## TikoMike (2 February 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Well, some people in the military argue that women can do the job as well as men.
> 
> He may be along in a while.




Pretty delusional to think a woman can best a man in say carrying equipment or dragging a wounded soldier. Biology must be a social construct to those "people".


----------



## TikoMike (2 February 2018)

Tisme said:


> I take it you aren't basilio with a different avatar?



Who is basilo?


----------



## Value Collector (2 February 2018)

TikoMike said:


> Pretty delusional to think a woman can best a man in say carrying equipment or dragging a wounded soldier.




You are delusional if you think women can't be good soldiers.

I think you are especially delusional if you think every man can beat every woman.

I certain percentage of women will fit the role and a certain percentage of men won't, so why base the decision on gender? rather than just having qualification and fitness tests.

If you are going to rule out women, you are ruling out a lot of talent.


----------



## Value Collector (2 February 2018)

> We also have a feminist defence minister who subsidises sex change surgery for soldiers wasting tax payers money. It's a ******* joke what our country is becoming.




How is that a waste of tax payers money?


----------



## TikoMike (2 February 2018)

Value Collector said:


> You are delusional if you think women can't be good soldiers.
> 
> I think you are especially delusional if you think every man can beat every woman.
> 
> ...




Stupid video, you could put midgets in the military and make a video about their travels. Also it's funny in your video it was the woman who caused the death of herself and two other soldiers. 

Fact is a fully trained man will always be stronger than a fully trained woman. It's biology. You've probably been watching too many Wonder Woman movies thinking women can compete with men in pure strength. 

Here is your delusion at work:


----------



## TikoMike (2 February 2018)

Value Collector said:


> How is that a waste of tax payers money?



Because a sex change operation is a personal choice and should not be funded by the tax payer.


----------



## SirRumpole (2 February 2018)




----------



## Value Collector (2 February 2018)

TikoMike said:


> Fact is a fully trained man will always be stronger than a fully trained woman.




Are you sure about that? you think every Male soldier in the army is a better soldier than every woman? I can tell you from experience there is a lot of male bags of crap in the army, and there is some great female soldiers, I wouldn't use gender as a deciding factor, but rather take each person on merit.


> Because a sex change operation is a personal choice and should not be funded by the tax payer.




What if it saves tax payer money?

By the time I left the Army, the Australian Tax payer had spent at least $1 Million dollars training me, and the day I left that investment was lost to them, and they have to go and spend another $1Million to bring a recruit up to the level I was when I left.

Now if they could have spent $20,000 to ensure I stayed around for another 5 years, extending the life of the $1 Million investment, thats a good deal for the tax payer.

Any money that the military spends to improve the mental heath and extend the careers of its soldiers is a good deal for the taxpayer.


----------



## SirRumpole (2 February 2018)

Value Collector said:


> I can tell you from experience there is a lot of male bags of crap in the army,




So why weren't they weeded out in training ?


----------



## Value Collector (2 February 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> So why weren't they weeded out in training ?




What was a motivated 19 year old recruit can become a disgruntled, lazy 29 year old with a drinking problem.

But also its a numbers game, lower quality people can get through if they need the numbers badly enough, being super strict is no good if it results in not enough people getting in.

Thats also part of the reason that I would much prefer filling positions with the highest quality women, rather than banning women and there fore having to reach down lower into the dregs of male recruits.

I mean if you took all the women out of the army, you would have to fill those spots with men who otherwise would have been "weeded out"

By simply allowing women in, you can pick an A grade women rather than a D grade man, because there aren't enough A ,B and C grade men to fill the spots, so we are already reaching down into the D grade just to fill spots, so an A grade woman will be a big improvement.


----------



## TikoMike (2 February 2018)

Value Collector said:


> Are you sure about that? you think every Male soldier in the army is a better soldier than every woman? I can tell you from experience there is a lot of male bags of crap in the army, and there is some great female soldiers, I wouldn't use gender as a deciding factor, but rather take each person on merit.




Which is what I originally said, they should recruit based on merit. I agree with you that if women can get into through the same standards then I have no issue. What I have issue with is that they are lowering the standards so that more women can get in. They obviously know that women can't compete with men biologically which is why they socially engineer the standards, which is very dangerous. It's common sense. Sorry to use a strawman here but it is important: In the last year, firefighters for example, women only have to carry a 30Kg dumbbell after they kept failing the old standard of a recruit carrying 90Kg dummy. That type of stuff will endanger the public.

Also with the sex change you really think these transgender people will want to stick around? I see it more as virtue signalling from Ms Payne


----------



## SirRumpole (2 February 2018)

Value Collector said:


> By simply allowing women in, you can pick an A grade women rather than a D grade man, because there aren't enough A ,B and C grade men to fill the spots, so we are already reaching down into the D grade just to fill spots, so an A grade woman will be a big improvement.




I suppose that makes sense. There would certainly be a lot of jobs in the Army women could do well. I believe that there hasn't been a big take up for combat jobs by women though.


----------



## Value Collector (2 February 2018)

TikoMike said:


> Which is what I originally said, they should recruit based on merit. I agree with you that if women can get into through the same standards then I have no issue. What I have issue with is that they are lowering the standards so that more women can get in. They obviously know that women can't compete with men biologically which is why they socially engineer the standards, which is very dangerous. It's common sense. Sorry to use a strawman here but it is important: In the last year, firefighters for example, women only have to carry a 30Kg dumbbell after they kept failing the old standard of a recruit carrying 90Kg dummy. That type of stuff will endanger the public.




If the standards are so high that people that would be good soldiers are not getting in then the standards should be altered.

But saying that, standards should be (and largely are) role specific, eg a medic or nurse working in a field hospital should have different standards to meet than an army diver or SAS trooper. 



> Also with the sex change you really think these transgender people will want to stick around?




yeah, and I am happy for the army to try all sorts of things to get the best longevity out of their soldiers, whether that be providing Marriage counselling, fixing a footy injury, financial counselling or help with alcoholism or depression etc


----------



## SirRumpole (2 February 2018)

Value Collector said:


> If the standards are so high that people that would be good soldiers are not getting in then the standards should be altered.




There must have been good reasons for the standards in the first place ?

It seems like it's just trying to achieve a social objective not an operational one. 

The same thing is happening in universities, people can't pass the standards so the standards are lowered instead of asking how teaching could be improved so people *can* pass them.


----------



## Value Collector (2 February 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> I believe that there hasn't been a big take up for combat jobs by women though.




and there probably won't be for a long time.

But that doesn't mean women aren't operating in combat zones, the "combat roles" are pretty specific, and plenty of non combat roles operate in combat zones.

eg. a Truck driver is not considered a "combat role", but convoys obviously operate in combat zones, and are armed, so a female transport crew can end up in battle fighting the enemy, without actually being "combat troops" every soldier male or female is trained to fight, even if their job is not specifically classified as a combat role.


----------



## Value Collector (2 February 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> The same thing is happening in universities, people can't pass the standards so the standards are lowered instead of asking how teaching could be improved so people *can* pass them.




I don't see it as lowering standards, but as changing the tests to better suit the needs, over time the tests have changed, some things have been taken away while others added.

If anything the tests are now better than when I first joined. As a whole I think the Army is much stronger now than when I joined 18 years ago, in 2000.

the 90's and 80's were not good for the army, a lot of decay happened, even if the entry tests were higher, the army over all was weaker.


----------



## Value Collector (2 February 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> I believe that there hasn't been a big take up for combat jobs by women though.




What I meant earlier when I said the "Combat roles" were specific, and non combat roles often are involved in combat was this.

Artillery for example is a "Combat role", because their main job is to attack the enemy, even though they are a long way from the actual fighting, often sitting inside bases.

these guys are "combat troops"



However a transport corp soldier is not considered to be in a combat role, because their job is transport, even though they often might find themselves in ambushes such as this, where they have to return fire and fight the enemy, they are not "combat troops"

So to say a woman can drive a truck in a combat zone, but couldn't work on an artillery battery because its a "combat role" seems silly.


----------



## SirRumpole (3 February 2018)

Value Collector said:


> So to say a woman can drive a truck in a combat zone, but couldn't work on an artillery battery because its a "combat role" seems silly.




It depends on the definition of "combat" doesn't it ?

In areas where physical strength is important (if it still is considering the technology around now) then a strong man is always going to beat a strong woman, but I doubt if there is much opportunity for hand to hand fighting these days.


----------



## Value Collector (3 February 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> It depends on the definition of "combat" doesn't it ?




In the past the Army has excluded women from "Combat corps", there are 4 combat corps.

Infantry
Armour
Engineers
Artillery

So there are 19 other corps they could serve in which weren't "combat corps", however this doesn't mean they will not be involved in fighting, just that they won't be tasked with directly seeking out and closing with the enemy, to kill or capture him, or to seize ground.

Moving from a role of driving a truck in a convoy, to driving a fighting vehicle that escorts it is not a big step in my opinion.



> In areas where physical strength is important (if it still is considering the technology around now) then a strong man is always going to beat a strong woman, but I doubt if there is much opportunity for hand to hand fighting these days.




That goes back to what I was saying before, I would swap an D grade man for an A grade women any day.

Saying you will exclude 100% of the women seems crazy, when other armies around the world are using women very effectively.


----------



## SirRumpole (3 February 2018)

Value Collector said:


> Saying you will exclude 100% of the women seems crazy




I don't think anyone ever said we should be excluding 100% of women, just that they should be fit for the role and not have the standards inappropriately lowered to suit the "equality" megaphone crusaders.


----------



## Tisme (3 February 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> I don't think anyone ever said we should be excluding 100% of women, just that they should be fit for the role and not have the standards inappropriately lowered to suit the "equality" megaphone crusaders.




Obviously the rules of war need to be changed, so that women can have equity and opportunity to kill the same number of people as a male counterpart. I just makes sense that killing shouldn't be just a man sport.


----------



## SirRumpole (3 February 2018)

Tisme said:


> Obviously the rules of war need to be changed, so that women can have equity and opportunity to kill the same number of people as a male counterpart. I just makes sense that killing shouldn't be just a man sport.




Interesting point. There is a psychological side to killing as well. I wonder if there have been many studies into whether its harder mentally for a woman to kill someone than a man. Given that soldiers hardly ever see the people they are killing these days, I wonder if any psychological difference matters anyway.


----------



## Value Collector (3 February 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Interesting point. There is a psychological side to killing as well. I wonder if there have been many studies into whether its harder mentally for a woman to kill someone than a man. Given that soldiers hardly ever see the people they are killing these days, I wonder if any psychological difference matters anyway.




Syria is employing females as snipers



Russians employed female snipers with great affect in WW2.


----------



## SirRumpole (3 February 2018)

More silly snowfakes (typo intended) dictating to our children.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-03/should-golliwog-dolls-exist-in-australia-in-2018/9391188


----------



## Tisme (3 February 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> More silly snowfakes (typo intended) dictating to our children.
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-03/should-golliwog-dolls-exist-in-australia-in-2018/9391188




Was a time the only person in Australia that might offend was Marcia Hines.

they also take the p155 out of whitey:


----------



## wayneL (3 February 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> More silly snowfakes (typo intended) dictating to our children.
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-03/should-golliwog-dolls-exist-in-australia-in-2018/9391188



If so,  raggedy anne dolls are equally offensive


----------



## SirRumpole (7 February 2018)

Women should not be in combat roles says Liberal MP and former soldier Andrew Hastie.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-...omen-should-not-serve-in-combat-roles/9402752


----------



## moXJO (7 February 2018)

> In 2013, the US military lifted its ban on women serving in combat. Shortly after, the Marine Corps began what it calls an “unprecedented research effort” to understand the impact of gender integration on its combat forces. That took the form of a year-long experiment called the Ground Combat Element Integrated Task Force, in which 400 Marines—100 of them female—trained for combat together and then undertook a simulated deployment, with every facet of their experience measured and scrutinized.
> 
> All branches of the military are facing a January 1, 2016, deadline to open all combat roles to women. The Marine Corps is using this experiment to decide whether to request exceptions to that mandate. The Corps’ summary of the experiment, posted online today by NPR, concludes that combat teams were less effective when they included women.
> 
> ...




Been tested already apparently.


----------



## PZ99 (7 February 2018)

The "unprecedented research effort" comes down to something like this:

If your enemy does it - you do it better. Women in combat won't be decided by the PC warriors. It'll be decided by who has man-flu and who hasn't


----------



## Tisme (7 February 2018)

PZ99 said:


> The "unprecedented research effort" comes down to something like this:
> 
> If your enemy does it - you do it better. Women in combat won't be decided by the PC warriors. It'll be decided by who has man-flu and who hasn't





US defense forces ...what happened in the end with gay soldiers. (boom boom)


----------



## Tisme (7 February 2018)

wayneL said:


> If so,  raggedy anne dolls are equally offensive




 Especially mixed races:


----------



## basilio (9 February 2018)

moXJO said:


> Been tested already apparently.





Interesting report. Did anyone else notice the caveat that was highlighted?
_
Such conclusions may be disheartening to proponents of gender integration in combat, and certainly put a damper on the news that the Army’s ranger school recently graduated its first female soldiers. The tests come with at least one important caveat: *As the Marine Corps Times notes, many of of the male study participants had previously served in combat units, whereas female participants, by necessity, came directly from infantry schools or from noncombat jobs.
*_
I would have thought that trying to compare the combat effectiveness of men vs women would be more useful if both groups had roughly identical training.  How reasonable was it to expect women from non combat jobs or infantry school to have the same level of skills as men who had served in combat ?


----------



## SirRumpole (9 February 2018)

basilio said:


> would have thought that trying to compare the combat effectiveness of men vs women would be more useful if both groups had roughly identical training. How reasonable was it to expect women from non combat jobs or infantry school to have the same level of skills as men who had served in combat ?




I think it comes down to accepting the fact that the military is not like other organisations, it's probably got the toughest (physically and mentally) job in the world. The idea of seat polishers in Canberra deciding that it should have women quotas or whatever is ridiculous as they couldn't know what it's really like on a battlefield. It should be a decision left to operational commanders and not imposed by politicians.


----------



## moXJO (9 February 2018)

basilio said:


> Interesting report. Did anyone else notice the caveat that was highlighted?
> _
> Such conclusions may be disheartening to proponents of gender integration in combat, and certainly put a damper on the news that the Army’s ranger school recently graduated its first female soldiers. The tests come with at least one important caveat: *As the Marine Corps Times notes, many of of the male study participants had previously served in combat units, whereas female participants, by necessity, came directly from infantry schools or from noncombat jobs.
> *_
> I would have thought that trying to compare the combat effectiveness of men vs women would be more useful if both groups had roughly identical training.  How reasonable was it to expect women from non combat jobs or infantry school to have the same level of skills as men who had served in combat ?



They applied the same as other male applicants there was a mix of levels throughout. The women were the best on offer and were already physically fit. Mixed groups were proven to be less effective,  end of story. A lot of men were also canned. And after that the bet is a lot of the women and men will drop from injury.

Women's hips were always the problem when carrying loads. Having women on the team means other troops then have to do/carry more. 

Just doing it because #WomenPower, is stupid. Putting grunts lives at risk for equality...... Dumb.


----------



## Tisme (9 February 2018)

moXJO said:


> They applied the same as other male applicants there was a mix of levels throughout. The women were the best on offer and were already physically fit. Mixed groups were proven to be less effective,  end of story. A lot of men were also canned. And after that the bet is a lot of the women and men will drop from injury.
> 
> Women's hips were always the problem when carrying loads. Having women on the team means other troops then have to do/carry more.
> 
> Just doing it because #WomenPower, is stupid. Putting grunts lives at risk for equality...... Dumb.




If you watch that TV show American/Australian Ninja women have a real problem racing up the inclined curve....apparently it's a centre of gravity thing.... should they change the geometry to accommodate this?


----------



## basilio (9 February 2018)

Overall I don't give a rats whether women are allowed/encouraged/required to be front line combat soldiers. Having said that for the sake for making rational decisions  I would offer the following points.

1) *What are the total skills and capacities wanted for a soldier? *Certainly fitness and strength but how about intelligence, adapatability, capacity to support other members of the group, technical skills with weapons, endurance (which is more than just brute strength) cunning.

2) *Does everyone in a platoon have to be excellent at every skill ?  *Common sense would say that was unrealistic. Some things probably can't be taught or developed in particular quickwittedness, social skills and perhaps very high level technical skills.

3)* Is every combat  unit  like the Marines?* Obviously not. The US Marines pride themselves on being the toughest, hardest SOB's in town. They see themselves  (and I assume are trained) as an elite fighting force.  Perhaps this is not the place to look for realistic comparisions with women. Clearly 95% of men would never, ever make the Marines. The chance of women achieving the physical demands would be far smaller.

I think a fighting  force should be an effective and cohesive unit. The individual capacities are always required but in the end combat is a team effort. Ruling out *all *women as potential  soldiers on princple seems silly if it means one can't put the most effective unit on the field. Give em a go.


----------



## SirRumpole (9 February 2018)

basilio said:


> Give em a go.




They should be given a go if they come up to the required standards. Who decides the standards ? It should be the commanders in the field not pen pushers in Canberra.


----------



## wayneL (9 February 2018)

Call me old fashioned, call me sexist,  but if I  was in a combat situation, seeing a woman taking a 7.62 in the face would have a whole different  effect on me than seeing a man take one.

Could that be a negative...  dangerous?


----------



## SirRumpole (9 February 2018)

wayneL said:


> Call me old fashioned, call me sexist,  but if I  was in a combat situation, seeing a woman taking a 7.62 in the face would have a whole different  effect on me than seeing a man take one.
> 
> Could that be a negative...  dangerous?




I suppose that would depend on whether you were gay or not. 

But yes, I think most men's natural instinct is to protect women and so seeing a woman shot would have a greater impact that seeing a man shot, but maybe it might spur him to fight harder for revenge perhaps ?

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is women getting captured and all the things that could be done to them. How would they be trained to resist that ?


----------



## basilio (10 February 2018)

"Give em a go".
Women playing US football...

*Female high school quarterback throws TD on 1st pass in varsity game*

By Katie Kindelan
Sep 1, 2017, 4:03 PM ET

 
 







John Landers
WATCH Female high school quarterback throws TD pass in 1st

A 16-year-old high school junior became the first female quarterback from her school, and possibly in the state of Florida, to throw a touchdown pass in a game.

Holly Neher, of Hollywood Hills High School in South Florida, threw a 42-yard touchdown pass Thursday in the fourth quarter of her team’s 21-7 loss to Hallandale High School.

“I started jumping up and down. My teammates started jumping on me,” Holly told ABC News of the reaction. “Coaches were screaming from the sidelines. Everyone started hitting me on the helmet.”

Holly, the only girl on her school’s 50-member varsity team, was playing in her first-ever varsity game and threw the touchdown on the first pass attempt. 

http://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/female-high-school-quarterback-throws-td-1st-pass/story?id=49564020


----------



## basilio (10 February 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> But yes, I think most men's natural instinct is to protect women and so seeing a woman shot would have a greater impact that seeing a man shot, but maybe it might spur him to fight harder for revenge perhaps ?
> 
> One thing that hasn't been mentioned is women getting captured and all the things that could be done to them. How would they be trained to resist that ?




I suppose one could go back to WW2 and research how women were treated and responded to torture by the Gestapo/SS when they were captured as Resistance fighters/supporters.


----------



## SirRumpole (10 February 2018)

basilio said:


> I suppose one could go back to WW2 and research how women were treated and responded to torture by the Gestapo/SS when they were captured as Resistance fighters/supporters.




Possibly, but they weren't members of a national army who have to be trained for contingencies.


----------



## basilio (10 February 2018)

*New U.S. combat policy affirms role women already play*
*U.S. female troops were serving alongside combat units in Afghanistan and Iraq long before the Pentagon lifted a ban on the practice.*
February 18, 2013|By Alexandra Zavis, Los Angeles Times










Sgt. Diana Garcia attends a briefing before going on a mission with members… (Alexandra Zavis / Los Angeles…)
FORWARD OPERATING BASE PASAB, Afghanistan — They fly troops into combat, drive convoys down mine-riddled roads and take part in foot patrols in the heartland of the Taliban-led insurgency.

For American women serving at military bases across Afghanistan, there was nothing extraordinary about the recent Pentagon decision to lift the official ban on women in direct combat roles.

"We're already here," said Army Capt. Kelly Hasselman, 28, of Broken Arrow, Okla., who commands a company of female soldiers that deployed with infantry in the southern province of Kandahar to build relations with rural Afghan women. "It's just not officially been in the books."

U.S. commanders say that military policy was out of step with the reality of two wars with virtually no front lines. Women, who make up about 15% of the active-duty military, have faced gunfire, bomb blasts and shelling while serving in Iraq and Afghanistan — in some cases without leaving their bases.





Two have been awarded the Silver Star, the nation's third-highest medal for gallantry in combat. More than 150 have lost their lives.

Long before Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta announced that he was lifting a 1994 rule that prevented women from being assigned to units below brigade level whose primary function is direct ground combat, female troops were serving alongside such units at outposts in some of the most heavily contested regions of Iraq and Afghanistan.
*
Stretched by more than a decade of war, the Army and Marine Corps for years sidestepped official policy by "attaching," rather than assigning, women to infantry and special operations units because their skills were needed.*

When soldiers from the 3rd Battalion, 41st Infantry Regiment, deployed in December to this dusty base in Zhari, the Kandahar district where the Taliban was born, they brought with them an eight-member "female engagement team" drawn from Hasselman's company. Women also serve in the battalion as medics, in the logistics and personnel sections and in the motor pool.
*
"Gender, height, weight, religion, sexual preference, race — I don't care," said the battalion commander, Lt. Col. Thomas Anderson. "It all comes down to your ability to do what the Army asks you to do."

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/18/world/la-fg-us-women-combat-20130219*


----------



## basilio (10 February 2018)

Another  reason why women soldiers want to be allowed to go into combat roles.
*Female soldiers fight Pentagon in court for combat positions*
*Two highly trained female soldiers contend that the exclusion of women from combat posts is unconstitutional.*
October 11, 2012|By David Zucchino, Los Angeles Times










Army Col. Ellen Haring and another female soldier have sued the Pentagon,… (David Zucchino, Los Angeles…)


BRISTOW, Va. — Last year, Army Col. Ellen Haring thought she was finally getting her dream job. She was selected to supervise female soldiers who search and interview Afghan women in combat zones for special operations units.

Haring spent three months training at Ft. Bragg, N.C. Then, just before she was to deploy to Afghanistan, she got a phone call from a staff officer. "Ma'am, we don't think you're qualified," she recalled him saying.

The job went to a lower-ranking male officer. Haring was outraged. "How could I not be qualified?" she said. "I'd already been thoroughly vetted just to get to Ft. Bragg."

No one would give her a reason, she said. But she believed it was her lack of experience in combat, denied because she's a woman.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/oct/11/nation/la-na-women-combat-20121012


----------



## moXJO (10 February 2018)

Not arguing that women are not valuable assets to the army. They do have unique skillsets.
But "give em a go" attitude is what gets people killed.

That girl that threw the pass was in for the last 20 or so seconds of the game. She has a average pass,  but got the job done. About a foot too short for a qb as well. But week in,  week out,  how long would she last without the rest of the team having to work overtime?
That example was basically someone throwing a ball in the last 20 seconds.

Thats the thing. All these bs examples of women supposedly being on par with men in the physical stakes,  when in reality its not.
Women can excel in areas a lot better then men. But the whole package must be looked at as well as negatives for the team.

I'd be for all female teams. But not mixed gender.


----------



## moXJO (10 February 2018)

basilio said:


> I suppose one could go back to WW2 and research how women were treated and responded to torture by the Gestapo/SS when they were captured as Resistance fighters/supporters.



You can research in Iraq or Afghanistan.


----------



## TikoMike (10 February 2018)

basilio said:


> "Give em a go".
> Women playing US football...
> 
> *Female high school quarterback throws TD on 1st pass in varsity game*
> ...





Uh huh.

*Australia’s National Women’s Soccer Team Lose 7-0 To A Bunch Of 15-Year-Old Boys*

https://www.dailywire.com/news/6072...ns-soccer-team-lose-7-0-amanda-prestigiacomo#

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-28/matildas-face-backlash-after-loss-to-boys-team/7456458

Stop watching Wonder Woman or Atomic Blonde.


----------



## basilio (10 February 2018)

moXJO said:


> That girl that threw the pass was in for the last 20 or so seconds of the game. She has a average pass,  but got the job done. About a foot too short for a qb as well. But week in,  week out,  how long would she last without the rest of the team having to work overtime?
> That example was basically someone throwing a ball in the last 20 seconds.
> .




I think thats inaccurate MoXJO.
Holly Neher wasn't picked as QB  for the school gridiron team because she was a 5'2",  "average pass" girl. The coach thought she had better skills, judgement, poise and mental strength than any other candidates.
She had played  football for many years. She just thought she should have a go at the boys team.

On anyones estimate a 42 yard touchdown pass is quality work.  She doesn't need the team to support her any more than they do for other QB - protecting her from tackles and offering good position for passes.

I agree it's  (very) unlikely she will end up as a college pro QB. But don't demean what is an exceptional achievement. And who knows. Perhaps the example will inspire other girls to have a go and other coaches and teams to think twice before routinely laughing off the idea.

In terms of mixed team sports I think QB (or possibly punter) in gridiron are the only two roles a women could conceivably play.  It is a very tough game. (Mind you Holly is no powder puff)
______________

Overall playing with the men in a gridiron game is a bit too courougeous  for a 5"2 girl.  But then Tony Liberatore was only 5' 4" played 283 games for the Bulldogs and won B&F in the Under 19's, Reserves and Seniors. (Only player to win all three medals)


----------



## moXJO (10 February 2018)

basilio said:


> I think thats inaccurate MoXJO.
> Holly Neher wasn't picked as QB  for the school gridiron team because she was a 5'2",  "average pass" girl. The coach thought she had better skills, judgement, poise and mental strength than any other candidates.
> She had played  football for many years. She just thought she should have a go at the boys team.
> 
> ...



Exceptional for a girl. But thats not what we are judging it on. And not something it should be judged on. Or something I like saying.
And in my opinion it was average. Receiver had to turn and work, probably a bit short as well. 
Tony was short but men have insane upper body strength compared to women. That is fact. 

I don't really care about mixed gender sports. Go for it. Women in the air force,  go for it. But as for being grunts or spec ops that have to work deep in enemy territory,  then I'm against it. 
At the end of the day,  I don't want dead kids shipped home over pc gender pushing. Studies show its not wise in the first place.

As military tech advances, my opinion might change.


----------



## TikoMike (14 February 2018)

Transgender footballer Hannah Mouncey has been granted permission by the AFL to play in the VFLW for the 2018 season.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/ha...y/news-story/61350d5a29c1bd7ae54297308b6b78aa

I feel sorry for the women in this sport, this "woman" is going to plough right through them.

The lunatics are taking over the asylum. The asylum being Australia.


----------



## SirRumpole (14 February 2018)

TikoMike said:


> Transgender footballer Hannah Mouncey has been granted permission by the AFL to play in the VFLW for the 2018 season.
> 
> http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/ha...y/news-story/61350d5a29c1bd7ae54297308b6b78aa
> 
> ...




Yeah I saw that person on tv and when they said he was transgender I thought "rubbish he's a bloke". 

Is he going to lose his body mass as a woman ? If not I don't think its fair to the real women.


----------



## TikoMike (14 February 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Yeah I saw that person on tv and when they said he was transgender I thought "rubbish he's a bloke".
> 
> Is he going to lose his body mass as a woman ? If not I don't think its fair to the real women.



Well the guy represented Australia in the Olympics as a MAN. If he was taking oestrogen from when he was a child then maybe it is doable, but "she" has now developed fully as a man.

Apparently this is an image of "her" without the wig and in stubbies. 

https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=80031683fa5172f104d96aadad696cdc&oe=5B11B34A


----------



## sptrawler (14 February 2018)

TikoMike said:


> Transgender footballer Hannah Mouncey has been granted permission by the AFL to play in the VFLW for the 2018 season.
> 
> http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/ha...y/news-story/61350d5a29c1bd7ae54297308b6b78aa
> 
> ...




I'd like to comment, but feel I can't for fear of social media backlash and an overpowering feeling of worthlessness.


----------



## Tisme (15 February 2018)

TikoMike said:


> Transgender footballer Hannah Mouncey has been granted permission by the AFL to play in the VFLW for the 2018 season.
> 
> http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/ha...y/news-story/61350d5a29c1bd7ae54297308b6b78aa
> 
> ...




I wonder when the feminists will wake up to the truth that women are being mocked by this rampant stupidity.

The parasites have latched themselves onto women's natural empathetic susceptibility and used them to advance things like gay marriage, gender bending and any other aberrant lifestyle fad choices.

What is unfathomable is the vastness of males who seem to have been afflicted by congenital castration and happy to swap their remnant manliness for traditional female mannerisms....and I'm just talking about hipsters and greens.


----------



## Tink (15 February 2018)

There was a discussion about women sports (and bathrooms) in the USA, that I put up a while ago.



---

_https://www.aussiestockforums.com/threads/feminism.29219/page-11

http://youreteachingourchildrenwhat.org/_


----------



## moXJO (15 February 2018)

Tisme said:


> I wonder when the feminists will wake up to the truth that women are being mocked by this rampant stupidity.
> 
> The parasites have latched themselves onto women's natural empathetic susceptibility and used them to advance things like gay marriage, gender bending and any other aberrant lifestyle fad choices.
> 
> What is unfathomable is the vastness of males who seem to have been afflicted by congenital castration and happy to swap their remnant manliness for traditional female mannerisms....and I'm just talking about hipsters and greens.



Actually a lot of feminists are against trans claiming to be female. 
"How dare males try and claim victim status" kinda deal.


----------



## Tisme (15 February 2018)

moXJO said:


> Actually a lot of feminists are against trans claiming to be female.
> "How dare males try and claim victim status" kinda deal.






yeah but 61.6% voted yes to queer marriage ... that's 51% female plus 10.6% marxist greens isn't it?


----------



## sptrawler (8 March 2018)

Can't wait to see the outcome, from this incident.

Apparently a women, on the centre point tower sky walk, disconnected her harness and jumped off.

Guess the skywalk will be a thing of the past, maybe every high spot in Australia should have a barrier with armed guards on them.


----------



## Junior (9 March 2018)

Tisme said:


> yeah but 61.6% voted yes to queer marriage ... that's 51% female plus 10.6% marxist greens isn't it?




Women's vote should be worth less than a mans right?  And the 'marxist greens' vote shouldn't count at all?


----------



## Tisme (9 March 2018)

Junior said:


> Women's vote should be worth less than a mans right?  And the 'marxist greens' vote shouldn't count at all?




That's rather sexist of you (heterophobe) to women and biatchy towards sheeple people.  I thought you were made of better stuff


----------



## basilio (9 March 2018)

Junior said:


> Women's vote should be worth less than a mans right?  And the 'marxist greens' vote shouldn't count at all?



Touche..


----------



## wayneL (9 March 2018)

Junior said:


> Women's vote should be worth less than a mans right?  And the 'marxist greens' vote shouldn't count at all?



Do you Marxist greens think the alt right should have a vote?


----------



## Junior (9 March 2018)

wayneL said:


> Do you Marxist greens think the alt right should have a vote?




1. I'm not one of those.

2. Every Australian citizen should and does have a vote.


----------



## wayneL (9 March 2018)

Junior said:


> 1. I'm not one of those.
> 
> 2. Every Australian citizen should and does have a vote.



You are a purveyor of intersectionality though.


----------



## PZ99 (10 March 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Can't wait to see the outcome, from this incident.
> 
> Apparently a women, on the centre point tower sky walk, disconnected her harness and jumped off.
> 
> Guess the skywalk will be a thing of the past, maybe every high spot in Australia should have a barrier with armed guards on them.



Good call.
_
"don't jump or I'll shoot.... 


Spoiler



...myself" 


_


----------



## PZ99 (10 March 2018)

wayneL said:


> Do you *Marxist greens* think the *alt right* should have a vote?



Neither group should vote. A vote from a hater is best rejected.


----------



## wayneL (10 March 2018)

PZ99 said:


> Neither group should vote. A vote from a hater is best rejected.



Dangerous game, bro. Where is this entirely subjective line?

Who gets to decide where the line is?


----------



## PZ99 (10 March 2018)

wayneL said:


> Dangerous game, bro. Where is this entirely subjective line?
> 
> Who gets to decide where the line is?



Who gets to decide whether one is a marxist Green or an alt right?

Self appointed sheriffs?


----------



## SirRumpole (10 March 2018)

PZ99 said:


> Who gets to decide whether one is a marxist Green or an alt right?




Or even just a normal person ?


----------



## PZ99 (10 March 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Or even just a normal person ?



We still exist? That's news to me.

Seems these days a mild contrary view is a bat for one extreme or the other.

I knew the universe was done for when they invented the widescreen


----------



## Tisme (10 March 2018)

PZ99 said:


> We still exist? That's news to me.
> 
> Seems these days a mild contrary view is a bat for one extreme or the other.
> 
> I knew the universe was done for when they invented the widescreen




 Political views really sit inside a circle, where they are picked by radii, sectors and chords. Unaffiliated people have the whole area to choose from and are erroneously accused of being everything from commo to facist .... I like that,


----------



## PZ99 (10 March 2018)

Tisme said:


> Political views really sit inside a circle, where they are picked by radii, sectors and chords. Unaffiliated people have the whole area to choose from and are erroneously accused of being everything from commo to facist .... I like that,



So do I actually. I can use it to my advantage against sycophantic hypocrites complaining about a hostile senate after a change of Govt


----------



## wayneL (10 March 2018)

PZ99 said:


> Who gets to decide whether one is a marxist Green or an alt right?
> 
> Self appointed sheriffs?



Their own beliefs?


----------



## Tisme (12 March 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Or even just a normal person ?




You have to pass the applicable "two cows" test.


----------



## PZ99 (12 March 2018)

wayneL said:


> Their own beliefs?



That wouldn't work if said beliefs are distorted by hatred. 

Half Term Tony was a hater - which is why he failed his own the pub test.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...ouch-me-baby-tainted-vote-20121010-27cjp.html


----------



## wayneL (13 March 2018)

PZ99 said:


> That wouldn't work if said beliefs are distorted by hatred.
> 
> Half Term Tony was a hater - which is why he failed his own the pub test.
> 
> https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...ouch-me-baby-tainted-vote-20121010-27cjp.html



Which is why the radical left is totally illegitimate. 

Tones is a pussycat in comparison


----------



## PZ99 (13 March 2018)

wayneL said:


> Which is why the radical left is totally illegitimate.
> 
> Tones is a pussycat in comparison



Doesn't make any difference. He made himself illegitimate by running out of parliament to avoid a vote. Hell, he even abstained from the same-sex marriage vote after campaigning against it.

His behaviour is no different to a marxist Green or any other hater standing next to a ditch-the-witch sign. Not much of an inspiration for the alt-right is it bro?


----------



## wayneL (13 March 2018)

PZ99 said:


> Doesn't make any difference. He made himself illegitimate by running out of parliament to avoid a vote. Hell, he even abstained from the same-sex marriage vote after campaigning against it.
> 
> His behaviour is no different to a marxist Green or any other hater standing next to a ditch-the-witch sign. Not much of an inspiration for the alt-right is it bro?



Whatever Tony is,  he is not alt right,  nor are the vast majority accused if being so. 

Your use if that issue is intetesting,  instructive even. I would have abstained also,  in absence of the specific legislation.


----------



## PZ99 (13 March 2018)

wayneL said:


> Whatever Tony is,  he is not alt right,  nor are the vast majority accused if being so.
> 
> Your use if that issue is intetesting,  instructive even. I would have abstained also,  in absence of the specific legislation.



Equally, the poster you accused of being Marxist Green is not Marxist Green.

We know this because he told you that. Same thing applies to other ASF posters 

Tony is definitely an alt - between reality and fiction. True, he ain't always right. I'll give you that.


----------



## Tisme (13 March 2018)

wayneL said:


> Which is why the radical left is totally illegitimate.
> 
> Tones is a pussycat in comparison




In the old Labor days, their policies would have dealt with the new lefties by cancelling their membership for being out of step with a moral and ethical western society.


----------



## Tisme (13 March 2018)

PZ99 said:


> Equally, the poster you accused of being Marxist Green is not Marxist Green.
> 
> We know this because he told you that. Same thing applies to other ASF posters
> 
> Tony is definitely an alt - between reality and fiction. True, he ain't always right. I'll give you that.




We probably need to apply a test  to see if the member is a Marxist Green in innocent denial.

Is Marxist and Greens a tautology?


----------



## PZ99 (13 March 2018)

Tisme said:


> We probably need to apply a test  to see if the member is a Marxist Green in innocent denial.
> 
> Is Marxist and Greens a tautology?



It's getting there. Which probably explains their silence on tariffs.

On the other hand the populist vote is at stake, so discretion is recommended particularly in the area of PC

Oooo lookie: we hit 28C in Mt Druitt yesterday


----------



## SirRumpole (13 March 2018)

Tisme said:


> We probably need to apply a test  to see if the member is a Marxist Green in innocent denial.
> 
> Is Marxist and Greens a tautology?




The Greens can be infiltrated by Marxists just as the classical Liberals have been infiltrated by the IPA.


----------



## Junior (13 March 2018)

wayneL said:


> You are a purveyor of intersectionality though.




What 2 or 3 word label do you use to describe your own political leanings?


----------



## wayneL (13 March 2018)

Junior said:


> What 2 or 3 word label do you use to describe your own political leanings?



I would call myself a classical liberal in the British sense,  with some concessions to social liberalism.

I was a member of lib dems in the UK and a member of an orange book think tank.


----------



## SirRumpole (13 March 2018)

wayneL said:


> I would call myself a classical liberal in the British sense,  with some concessions to social liberalism.
> 
> I was a member of lib dems in the UK and a member of an orange book think tank.




I thought you were a Yank  (sorry, esteemed American cousin ) ?


----------



## wayneL (13 March 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> I thought you were a Yank  (sorry, esteemed American cousin ) ?



Well that's a long story
0-6 months Canada
6months - 12yo California 
12-45 oz
45-49 uk
49-52 nz
52- current oz


----------



## SirRumpole (13 March 2018)

wayneL said:


> Well that's a long story
> 0-6 months Canada
> 6months - 12yo California
> 12-45 oz
> ...


----------



## Tisme (13 March 2018)

PZ99 said:


> It's getting there. Which probably explains their silence on tariffs.
> 
> On the other hand the populist vote is at stake, so discretion is recommended particularly in the area of PC
> 
> Oooo lookie: we hit 28C in Mt Druitt yesterday




Human nature that when people attach themselves to a freedom pole, they inevitably become captives to it. The greens seem to have so many rules of conscience and behaviour they would rival the orange people.


----------



## PZ99 (13 March 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Can't wait to see the outcome, from this incident.
> 
> Apparently a women, on the centre point tower sky walk, disconnected her harness and jumped off.
> 
> Guess the skywalk will be a thing of the past, maybe every high spot in Australia should have a barrier with armed guards on them.



Whoops. http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw...y/news-story/cc8f709cc7b6ca303acfa04802872d79


----------



## sptrawler (13 March 2018)

PZ99 said:


> Whoops. http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw...y/news-story/cc8f709cc7b6ca303acfa04802872d79




I smell an epidemic, coming on.


----------



## TikoMike (17 March 2018)

So they tried it, using an all feminist led team to build a walk only bridge and it collapsed within a week killing 6 people (death toll could still rise). Somehow, some way they will probably find a way to blame the invisible "patriarchy".

Crazy how there is still bridges built during the Roman empire which is still in use today and still standing.

https://squawker.org/culture-wars/a...pany-built-the-florida-bridge-that-collapsed/


----------



## Wysiwyg (17 March 2018)

This is the voicemail from the *male* engineer. Female led is a sensationalist lie. Fact check goes a long way pal.


----------



## TikoMike (17 March 2018)

Wysiwyg said:


> This is the voicemail from the *male* engineer. Female led is a sensationalist lie. Fact check goes a long way pal.




How does that one male engineer voice recording prove your point? I also know the MCM is owned by five males but early reports say the people who led the project were feminists. I could be wrong, but we will see as more information gets confirmed. Just going off early reports.


----------



## PZ99 (17 May 2018)

PC rewriting history. BOOOOO!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-...med-offensive-births-deaths-marriages/9753430


----------



## Tisme (17 May 2018)

I wonder is this year will be the same



> Queensland Police Service
> Like This Page · September 16, 2016 · Edited ·
> 
> Today we celebrate diversity for International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia#IDAHOT


----------



## SirRumpole (17 May 2018)

Tisme said:


> I wonder is this year will be the same




If the Qld Police and other forces are serious about community relations in general then maybe they should sack a few of their number who have been sprung beating up innocent citizens whether gay or not.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-18/qld-police-misconduct-whistleblower-rick-flori/9519104


----------



## Tink (21 May 2018)

Library Gender Ban
Victorian councils removing terms 'boy' and 'girl'.

_Councils in Victoria are banning the terms ‘boy’ and ‘girl’ as they remove ‘gender stereotyping’ from libraries and kindergartens._

------

_https://www.aussiestockforums.com/threads/i-dislike-daniel-andrews-intensely.32824/page-7_


----------



## SirRumpole (21 May 2018)

Tink said:


> Library Gender Ban
> Victorian councils removing terms 'boy' and 'girl'.
> 
> _Councils in Victoria are banning the terms ‘boy’ and ‘girl’ as they remove ‘gender stereotyping’ from libraries and kindergartens._
> ...




Ridiculous.


----------



## Tisme (21 May 2018)

Tink said:


> Library Gender Ban
> Victorian councils removing terms 'boy' and 'girl'.
> 
> _Councils in Victoria are banning the terms ‘boy’ and ‘girl’ as they remove ‘gender stereotyping’ from libraries and kindergartens._
> ...




Do you get the feeling there is a determined group of self appropriated victim people out there who have infiltrated the public service with the prime objective of making the majority pay for the miserable childhood of the few? Misery creating it's own company.


----------



## Tink (21 May 2018)

Whether those protesters are going back and forth, we seem to have them in Melbourne.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/threads/freedom-of-speech-and-protest.31657/page-7


----------



## SirRumpole (21 May 2018)

Tisme said:


> Do you get the feeling there is a determined group of self appropriated victim people out there who have infiltrated the public service with the prime objective of making the majority pay for the miserable childhood of the few? Misery creating it's own company.




Like Roz Ward ?

I think that Left Wing teachers unions are finding it too hard to keep up with advances in STEM subjects and don't want to do the work updating their knowledge, so they create a diversion of this "gender justice" rubbish to cover up the fact that our literacy and numeracy is now near the bottom of the civilised world.


----------



## Tisme (21 May 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Like Roz Ward ?
> 
> I think that Left Wing teachers unions are finding it too hard to keep up with advances in STEM subjects and don't want to do the work updating their knowledge, so they create a diversion of this "gender justice" rubbish to cover up the fact that our literacy and numeracy is now near the bottom of the civilised world.




My own finds herself being attacked by her cohorts for daring to maintain convivial classroom learning discipline, teaching business IT, robotics, programming, mathematics etc. 

It appears back biting, intrigue, subterfuge, betrayal, etc are hallmarks of a profession that rewards obsequious devotion to school principals and gaining access to the circle of trust clusters, rather than focusing on deliverable pedagogy that inspires and rewards children who have a right to quality education. 

Teachers remuneration appears to be far in excess of it's final product quality. I personally don't think they are hungry enough and they are bound to regress into childishness and juvenile game play/schoolyard politik themselves the longer they spend with children. School holidays should devolve back to the idea that teachers needed that time for personal development and skills upgrade, rather than weeding the holiday house and negatively geared flat paid for by $100k + super + salary sacrifice for a 27.5 hour working week.


----------



## SirRumpole (21 May 2018)

Tisme said:


> Teachers remuneration appears to be far in excess of it's final product quality.




I think teachers should have high pay but high standards too. 39/41 OECD nations in literacy and numeracy is a cr@p result.

https://www.smh.com.au/education/un...es-for-quality-education-20170615-gwrt9u.html


----------



## wayneL (21 May 2018)

Meanwhile the *true alt right is gaining justification and support. The law of unintended consequences will destroy the left.


----------



## Tisme (21 May 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> I think teachers should have high pay but high standards too. 39/41 OECD nations in literacy and numeracy is a cr@p result.
> 
> https://www.smh.com.au/education/un...es-for-quality-education-20170615-gwrt9u.html





Any reason teachers should have high pay? From my observations the idea that teachers do it tough because of teaching the students is a misnomer. They do it tough because the govt helicopters them to deliver rote learned, rote delivered, set practice. They do it tough because they are in a soup of organisational malaise and intrigue topped down from the district managers through the principals, hods, etc that spreads like oil on a hot plate amongst the teachers themselves. 

They do it tough because they are expected to be subservient drones to a broken watch. You don't pay high wages to robots, you pay them less and get rid of the stupid idea of running schools like corporations so those who truely want to educate young people are allowed to deliver and tutor.


----------



## SirRumpole (21 May 2018)

Tisme said:


> Any reason teachers should have high pay?




Yes, if they meet high standards of performance.


----------



## moXJO (21 May 2018)

They have some really good young male and female teachers coming through. They need to fire the majority of the 40 plus crowd that don't even attempt to teach.


----------



## Tisme (31 May 2018)

Men have obviously been fooling us all these centuries about their prowess:

http://bernardgaynor.com.au/chief-army-admits-females-recruited-infantry-men/



> Senator Fraser Anning is like the Steven Bradbury of politics.
> 
> He’s the guy who replaced the guy who was sitting in the Senate because of Pauline’s Hanson name.
> 
> ...


----------



## greggles (3 July 2018)

Australians have officially overtaken the Poms as the world's greatest whingers and sooks. Political correctness has officially won.

I can't believe the bollocking that poor old Bert Newton has gotten over his Logies speech. I didn't find anything offensive, he was just having a bit of fun and taking the piss. Why have Australians become so dour, humourless and outraged at everything?


----------



## wayneL (3 July 2018)

greggles said:


> Australians have officially overtaken the Poms as the world's greatest whingers and sooks. Political correctness has officially won.
> 
> I can't believe the bollocking that poor old Bert Newton has gotten over his Logies speech. I didn't find anything offensive, he was just having a bit of fun and taking the piss. Why have Australians become so dour, humourless and outraged at everything?




I always thought it was just a minority of agitators,  then I joined Twitter...


----------



## Humid (3 July 2018)

greggles said:


> Australians have officially overtaken the Poms as the world's greatest whingers and sooks. Political correctness has officially won.
> 
> I can't believe the bollocking that poor old Bert Newton has gotten over his Logies speech. I didn't find anything offensive, he was just having a bit of fun and taking the piss. Why have Australians become so dour, humourless and outraged at everything?





I think it’s always been the same but now everyone has  platform for an opinion whereas before you had letters to the editor and the dunny wall


----------



## cynic (3 July 2018)

wayneL said:


> I always thought it was just a minority of agitators,  then I joined Twitter...



At the risk of causing offence to non celestials through my political incorrectness:
https://www.quotes.net/quote/9152


----------



## Tisme (16 August 2018)

Guardian fans won't like this trash talk in their bible:

https://www.theguardian.com/culture...different-ideas-is-vanishing?CMP=share_btn_tw

"After a week in which we lost Fairfax and the Brisbane Writers festival banned writers, we need more than ever places where we can listen and reflect on different perspectives (cont/) "


----------



## SirRumpole (16 August 2018)

Tisme said:


> Guardian fans won't like this trash talk in their bible:
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/culture...different-ideas-is-vanishing?CMP=share_btn_tw
> 
> "After a week in which we lost Fairfax and the Brisbane Writers festival banned writers, we need more than ever places where we can listen and reflect on different perspectives (cont/) "




Ah yes, and one could go on. Refusing to hire convention centres for anti SSM meetings for example.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-...loses-venue-after-wrest-point-cancels/9015626


----------



## Tisme (16 August 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Ah yes, and one could go on. Refusing to hire convention centres for anti SSM meetings for example.
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-...loses-venue-after-wrest-point-cancels/9015626




Which beggars the question of whether we are already in a draconian state of play and in denial that our Oz character is extant or extinct?


----------



## SirRumpole (16 August 2018)

Tisme said:


> Which beggars the question of whether we are already in a draconian state of play and in denial that our Oz character is extant or extinct?




Pretty close to it I reckon. People who speak up for the mainstream are howled down by minorities, a stupid kind of reverse facism.


----------



## sptrawler (16 August 2018)

Tisme said:


> Guardian fans won't like this trash talk in their bible:
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/culture...different-ideas-is-vanishing?CMP=share_btn_tw
> 
> "After a week in which we lost Fairfax and the Brisbane Writers festival banned writers, we need more than ever places where we can listen and reflect on different perspectives (cont/) "




As long as it is left wing and the media/reporters agree with it.


----------



## SirRumpole (17 August 2018)

Free speech stifled again.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-...roversial-academic-transgender-views/10132400


----------



## Tisme (9 September 2018)




----------



## SirRumpole (11 September 2018)

Cartoonist Mark Knight got a grilling on ABC for drawing Serena Williams as she appears.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/tenni...m/news-story/0333c3c71fafdcaff25e2e8b33eb257f


----------



## moXJO (11 September 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Cartoonist Mark Knight got a grilling on ABC for drawing Serena Williams as she appears.
> 
> https://www.news.com.au/sport/tenni...m/news-story/0333c3c71fafdcaff25e2e8b33eb257f



I guess we are not all "Charlie hebdo" after all. "Freedom of speech" comes with the right of "freedom to criticize". But knowing what the sjw masses are like, they will attempt to shutdown.


----------



## IFocus (11 September 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Cartoonist Mark Knight got a grilling on ABC for drawing Serena Williams as she appears.
> 
> https://www.news.com.au/sport/tenni...m/news-story/0333c3c71fafdcaff25e2e8b33eb257f




I saw that and didn't think it racist................as a white bloke. 

But i did see a parallel to the reaction from critics as similar to Trump (the criminal) supporters reaction every time the obvious is pointed out


----------



## Tisme (12 September 2018)

IFocus said:


> I saw that and didn't think it racist................as a white bloke.
> 
> But i did see a parallel to the reaction from critics as similar to Trump (the criminal) supporters reaction every time the obvious is pointed out




If you are fat bottomed black woman with tuckshop arms in the USA you are venerated and worshipped:

e.g. 
1) host a tv chatterbox show with free car giveaways, which feeds off women's insecurities they never knew that had and you earn obscene gobs of cash for the toil;
2) sing a few songs written by a Jewish song factory couple and you get a state funeral; 
3) hit some balls around a tennis court, dress like a cartoon character and behave like a petulant child.

Black guilt in the US is way more powerful than Catholic guilt ever hoped to be.


----------



## Tisme (12 September 2018)




----------



## Darc Knight (12 September 2018)

How much is Serena Williams worth?

Maybe if she gives half of it to charity and shows thanks for the gifts and opportunity she's had, then I might take her complaining as being anything other than a bratty tantrum.


----------



## Tisme (12 September 2018)

Darc Knight said:


> How much is Serena Williams worth?
> 
> Maybe if she gives half of it to charity and shows thanks for the gifts and opportunity she's had, then I might take her complaining as being anything other than a bratty tantrum.




Doesn't matter to the knucklehead adherents of dysphemism who use the euphemism treadmill to shift  goal posts whenever one of the protected species is exposed as having a human frailty just like the white male enemy.


----------



## SirRumpole (12 September 2018)

Tisme said:


> dysphemism




You got me with that one.


----------



## moXJO (12 September 2018)

The usual virtue signaling idiots jumped on board. J k Rowling, kathy griffin,  etc.
I guess the disgusting attitude that took away from the Japanese players win, is completely overlooked.

I'm glad it was an aussie cartoonist and I hope he does take a stand.  Apparently he has had death threats and had to post security at his door.

This is the road we are heading down unless its called out and opposed.


----------



## Wysiwyg (12 September 2018)

Non event, smashing stuff is what people love to see.


----------



## CanOz (13 September 2018)

FYI....mods sorry if wrong thread. Was Ina a hurry


----------



## wayneL (26 October 2018)

Bloody hell!


----------



## luutzu (26 October 2018)

wayneL said:


> Bloody hell!





Don't they have hooded White Knights for white minorities?

I guess having just about every senior politician, heads of corporations, top military brass, senior advisors, landed gentry... being White just isn't enough. 

Seriously though, it's not race Sifu. It's class. 

Just look at Trump. He doesn't look and sound like the kind of guys who likes Jews or Arabs ["middle east(ers)"] much, if any. But if they got money... certain ethnic defects can be overlooked, no?


----------



## wayneL (26 October 2018)

Ahh,  so lets invoke the unrepresentative  Kkk to justify anti white racism. 

Bit by bit, your extreme left whittles away western magnanimity.

I'll tell you a story, grasshopper. A friend of ours invited us to her son's schools music night. The performances ranged from cringe worthy to actually very good.

But what my wife and I did notice was the broad range of races and cultures represented there. In that little microcosm of society it worked very well. We sat next to an absolutely gorgeous Chinese lady from Beijing who was delightful to speak to. The music Captain was quite obviously a Muslim lad and we'll integrated into Australian society, really nice young chap, and so on and so forth.

It all worked because there was mutual goodwill and the obvious efforts of integration, a really positive image of multiculturalism.

Yet the extreme left, your mob of malcontented agitators, seek to undermine that picture by the exact toxicity that you have portrayed in your post above. That is feckin shameful mate. 

Your narrative of portraying Western civilization as some sort of toxic fascist, Nazi white supremacists is so far from the reality it is pathetic and an absolute assault and betrayal of our goodwill.

It is a shame that you are so programmable, that the NPC meme is so devastatingly accurate, that you cannot see the wood for the trees and it will ultimately be at your cost.


----------



## basilio (26 October 2018)

wayneL said:


> Bloody hell!





That is an interesting class Wyane.  Of course if you are quite certain that *White Is Right, always was and always will be* - then you won't be wasting your time on such classes unless it's to trash them or anyone who goes to them. Just stick to going to the Proud Boys parties and rooting for Richard Spencer.

On the other hand if you are troubled by walking on a cloud of whiteness in a country that historically and currently kills uppity blacks without compunction or a seconds thought - then this is a POV you could examine.

And what is "political correctness" anyway ?  For example what was "political correctness" in the deep south in the USA in the mid fifties?


----------



## SirRumpole (26 October 2018)

Wayne is right.

The toxic Nazis in Australia are such a small group that they are basically not worth worrying about, and giving them airplay will only serve to add to their number.

Sure you have loonies harassing people on buses and aircraft as we have recently seen, but they are put in their places by the decent people around them.

This is one of the best countries in the world to live in, I wish people would stop knocking it.


----------



## basilio (26 October 2018)

I was watching the latest series of Dr Who a couple of days ago.  The latest episode hits some hot spots with regard to racism in the US and the efforts to challenge the laws that kept blacks well and truly in their place (even if that was on the end of rope.)
The Dr and crew are cast back to Nov 30th 1955 in Montgomery Alabama.  The meet Rosa Parks. The rest is history.
Interestingly, apart from the introduced Dr Who elements, all the details of Rosa Parks,  the incidents, the atmosphere in Montgomery, the social and legal structures of the time are spot on.

*Series 11 Episode 3 Rosa*
The Doctor and her friends find themselves in the Deep South of America. As they encounter a seamstress by the name of Rosa Parks, they begin to wonder: is someone attempting to change history?
https://iview.abc.net.au/show/doctor-who

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Parks


----------



## luutzu (26 October 2018)

wayneL said:


> Ahh,  so lets invoke the unrepresentative  Kkk to justify anti white racism.
> 
> Bit by bit, your extreme left whittles away western magnanimity.
> 
> ...




Who's anti-White? 

How does a women's group, a women of colour group, or any minority group getting together for those self-help session, counselling, guidance and group hugs... how are they being anti-White or anti Western civilisation or "whittling" away the good stuff?

Maybe they're just there to help those in need, those they perceive as most disadvantaged. 

Does it stop White groups helping one another? Does it mean no White people can join?

And how do you think that multicultural, mixing of ethnic groups you and your wife found so delightful came about? 

Maybe made possible through such peaceful and "leftist" movement that remove the White Australia policy, ended segregation and apartheid. 

And how does a peaceful, justice and equality seeking movement by a bunch of hippies going to turn and destroy the peace and equality of the culturally dominant race? They'd need to be psychotic and well militarised for that. 

Psychotic people do not set out to seek equality and justice for anybody. 

So they might, despite what we're told, just be seeking to set the disadvantaged on a somewhat equal footing. 

Without that kind of activism, all the praise and fawning of Western civilisation are nought. 

Think about it. 

You reckon only Western countries know how to do imperialism? Only the West know how to exploit and enslave? Only the West have billionaires and sycophants? Or fine arts, culture, music, philosophy?

Being fair and equal does not mean everyone should treated all the same. I know, contradictory right?

To treat people all the same regardless of their situation... that'd be like not feeding the poor and hungry because the well-fed aren't being given the same nutritional package. 

No society had ever been destroyed by those who seek justice and equality. 

All society that collapses did so because those at the top take everything, blame it on minorities and scapegoats, and the masses believe them.


----------



## wayneL (26 October 2018)

You have the center,  the center left,  and the center right, all willing to have reasonable discourse and generate  goodwill.

Then you have the extremes, the Marxists and the true fascists who have no interest in generating goodwill,  preferring to sow discord and dwell on sins of 7 decades ago in one group in one or two isolated regions, all the while ignoring  the overall picure of humanity and the West's role in actually leading the world in reasoned social justice (not meaning the extreme lunacies of the extreme left of today).

As I say,  one day,  our collective patience will wear out.


----------



## luutzu (26 October 2018)

wayneL said:


> You have the center,  the center left,  and the center right, all willing to have reasonable discourse and generate  goodwill.
> 
> Then you have the extremes, the Marxists and the true fascists who have no interest in generating goodwill,  preferring to sow discord and dwell on sins of 7 decades ago in one group in one or two isolated regions, all the while ignoring  the overall picure of humanity and the West's role in actually leading the world in reasoned social justice (not meaning the extreme lunacies of the extreme left of today).
> 
> As I say,  one day,  our collective patience will wear out.




If by "the West" you mean the general, ordinary, population in the West, then yes. The decades after WWII were incredibly liberal and progressive in all of human history. All due to the population rising up and demanding good deeds from their representatives. 

But if you mean "the West" as the ruling elite, those masters of mankind, those wise elder statesman bringing Plato, Socrates and Shakespeare to mankind... that's just propaganda. 

So we plebs in the West are very free an privileged, we can do a heck of a lot, changing the world - if we want it enough. And these freedom and privileges weren't given or handed down by the magnanimity of Western philosopher statesman... they were wrested from their greedy, blood soaked hands by ordinary people. 

Now, instead of seeing those history and emulate the bravery and decency of previous generations, some snowflakes start b|[tching about how unfair it is for Aboriginal students to have a dedicated computer room [what, don't we all have laptops and computers at home? Really? Not all could afford it?]... or whine about some minority getting offer for hep and assistant if they needed it. 

As said elsewhere, there is real and genuine hardship among White working poor in the West. Rising poverty, rising unemployment, homelessness, drug abuse, crime, suicide etc. etc. 

Real solution require knowing the real cause of it. Finger pointing, blaming minority and less fortunate people ain't going to solve it. 

And if it's hard to see how White politicians could possibly enact policies that hurt White peasants, then look overseas to see how it is very possible and very real that Yellow, Black and Brown politician have no problem doing the same butchery on "their own kind".


----------



## wayneL (26 October 2018)

You can't hide your anti white racism via  obfuscation with BS,  grasshopper.


----------



## Tink (27 October 2018)

Push to rid gender from birth certificates

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10...smania-government-against-amendments/10423686


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## sptrawler (4 December 2018)

We have to protect kids from hurting themselves.

https://thewest.com.au/lifestyle/he...and-childhood-experts-hit-back-ng-b881032118z

Leave them on the couch with the playstation, and give them heart disease and type 2 diabetes instead.


----------



## Knobby22 (4 December 2018)

sptrawler said:


> We have to protect kids from hurting themselves.
> 
> https://thewest.com.au/lifestyle/he...and-childhood-experts-hit-back-ng-b881032118z
> 
> Leave them on the couch with the playstation, and give them heart disease and type 2 diabetes instead.



I used to be a cub leader and my kids are scouts, my eldest has just put in for the Queen scout award.
I really respect scouts, they get to do stuff they can't at school and aren't allowed devices at camps or scout nights.
They also gain leadership skills and have a different set of friends away from school.


Even there though you get some leaders and parents that want to pin their wings. 
As a cub leader one of the games is the match relay. They run, light a match then douse the flame in a bowl of water. A big deal for this deprived generation.


----------



## jbocker (4 December 2018)

Tink said:


> Push to rid gender from birth certificates
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10...smania-government-against-amendments/10423686



Maybe we should stop having names for certain body parts in case that should acknowledge our or someones gender. 
Actually I am surprised some stupid genitalia hasn't suggested that already!


----------



## bellenuit (1 July 2019)




----------



## wayneL (11 September 2019)




----------



## wayneL (11 September 2019)




----------



## wayneL (6 January 2020)

Savage, but truth to power LMAO!


----------



## Smurf1976 (6 January 2020)

If anyone needs a cause to be upset about well then here's one:

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/r...s/news-story/038fa28957699310b1dcb2650ab32511

What's the big deal?

A woman chooses to sell naked photos of herself to raise money for a very worthwhile cause.

Problem? It's not like she's putting them up outside the nearest primary school etc.


----------



## SirRumpole (7 January 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> If anyone needs a cause to be upset about well then here's one:
> 
> https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/r...s/news-story/038fa28957699310b1dcb2650ab32511
> 
> ...




No problem as far as I'm concerned.

It may be a problem for the prudes and feminists but let them say what they have donated to the relief efforts.


----------



## dutchie (8 January 2020)

wayneL said:


> Savage, but truth to power LMAO!




Ricky Gervais is a genius.


----------



## qldfrog (8 January 2020)

I recommend watching his intro speech, good fun, acidly true
And you can get it from the ABC...https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-06/ricky-gervais-opening-at-the-golden-globes-2020/11844260
Enjoy


----------



## SirRumpole (8 January 2020)

It seems that whenever women don't get everything they want they are being "disrespected".

Feminism has gone too far IMV.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01...at-brisbane-international-scheduling/11850804


----------



## sptrawler (8 January 2020)

dutchie said:


> Ricky Gervais is a genius.



He certainly doesn't take prisoners, a breath of fresh air, in this overly PC World. IMO
like he said, this will hurt but I wont be invited back, so here goes.


----------



## wayneL (9 January 2020)




----------



## dutchie (9 January 2020)

wayneL said:


>




The hats would have more intelligence than the heads they were sitting on in this case.


----------



## SirRumpole (21 February 2020)

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02...ogises-detectives-camp-hill-comments/11987426

Feminists going ape over a police officer stating the obvious, they have to keep an open mind and study all the evidence.

If the guy killed his family and walked away then the fems would have a point, the fact is the guy killed himself as well and that does not indicate a stable state of mind, so there are apparently other factors involved that need to be investigated.


----------



## wayneL (21 February 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02...ogises-detectives-camp-hill-comments/11987426
> 
> Feminists going ape over a police officer stating the obvious, they have to keep an open mind and study all the evidence.
> 
> If the guy killed his family and walked away then the fems would have a point, the fact is the guy killed himself as well and that does not indicate a stable state of mind, so there are apparently other factors involved that need to be investigated.



Yeah, but you just aren't allowed to say it.


----------



## basilio (21 February 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02...ogises-detectives-camp-hill-comments/11987426
> 
> Feminists going ape over a police officer stating the obvious, they have to keep an open mind and study all the evidence.
> 
> If the guy killed his family and walked away then the fems would have a point, the fact is the guy killed himself as well and that does not indicate a stable state of mind, so there are apparently other factors involved that need to be investigated.



What ? Come on. Are you trying to  say that the violence and anger he demonstrated  is somehow  "understandable" because he then necked himself ?

Unfortunately there have been way too many examples of (mostly) men who have dominated their families with violence and then made it clear that if the wife runs away he will kill everyone. Ot that is teh threat anway.

This is is much standard operating practice it doesn't bear thinking.

It has happened in my immediate family.


----------



## SirRumpole (21 February 2020)

basilio said:


> What ? Come on. Are you trying to say that the violence and anger he demonstrated is somehow "understandable" because he then necked himself ?




Not "understandable" as in "justified" basilio. If he killed his family and walked away laughing that would be a different matter, but killing yourself in a horrible way indicates that there was more to the case than outright evil. He ran a gym so maybe some sort of drugs were involved. 

Try not to be as hysterical as some of the media commentators about this, the police have a job to do and they have to look at the whole story not just what gets reported by an emotional media.


----------



## Knobby22 (22 February 2020)

Even Andrew Bolt called it for what it is... disgusting and evil.

I think the cop probably just worded his statement wrong but the Chief Commisioner made a good call removing him from the case.

There is no justification, 3 little girls, one still a baby died in the worst possible way to a man who believed he owned them and their lives.

There will be men pointing at this incident and saying to their poor wives, see what happens!


----------



## moXJO (22 February 2020)

Unless we understand exactly what happened in the lead up, it's going to keep on happening. It's got worse, not better.  "All men are evil" is simplistic sht. There are mental health issues here that need to be addressed. Separating men from their children with no recourse will see this carry on.


----------



## qldfrog (22 February 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Even Andrew Bolt called it for what it is... disgusting and evil.
> 
> There will be men pointing at this incident and saying to their poor wives, see what happens!



And there will be angry separated bitches pointing at this incident and saying to their poor children, see what will happen with your father


----------



## Knobby22 (22 February 2020)

moXJO said:


> Unless we understand exactly what happened in the lead up, it's going to keep on happening. It's got worse, not better.  "All men are evil" is simplistic sht. There are mental health issues here that need to be addressed. Separating men from their children with no recourse will see this carry on.



If you follow the news you will see he achieved a very good deal. Didn't matter.


----------



## Knobby22 (22 February 2020)

qldfrog said:


> And there will be angry separated bitches pointing at this incident and saying to their poor children, see what will happen with your father



Yes, we know there are plenty of nasty women also but they play a different game...and it's up to the man to not to provide ammunition.


----------



## Humid (22 February 2020)

qldfrog said:


> And there will be angry separated bitches pointing at this incident and saying to their poor children, see what will happen with your father




And some reckon I need a Xanax


----------



## moXJO (22 February 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> If you follow the news you will see he achieved a very good deal. Didn't matter.



I haven't heard the full story on the above. But there is no justification for his actions. Stabbing yourself and setting everyone on fire is not the actions of a sane person. Prior to this there was no violence from what I read. So he went full retard possibly after losing control of her. I'm not interested in defending him. I'm interested in what exactly happened though.

There are plenty of terrible partners both men and women. I'm not to sure how they are going to tackle mental illness in a relationship. But it needs to be done. The truth be told I have seen more domestic violence committed by women, false accusations, using the courts as leverage then I have of men beating women.
But the men using violence, control, rape, need to be held to account. There are many women brutalized out there that do need proper assistance and protection. 
It's not an easy problem.


----------



## Humid (22 February 2020)

moXJO said:


> I haven't heard the full story on the above. But there is no justification for his actions. Stabbing yourself and setting everyone on fire is not the actions of a sane person. Prior to this there was no violence from what I read. So he went full retard possibly after losing control of her. I'm not interested in defending him. I'm interested in what exactly happened though.
> 
> There are plenty of terrible partners both men and women. I'm not to sure how they are going to tackle mental illness in a relationship. But it needs to be done. The truth be told I have seen more domestic violence committed by women, false accusations, using the courts as leverage then I have of men beating women.
> But the men using violence, control, rape, need to be held to account. There are many women brutalized out there that do need proper assistance and protection.
> It's not an easy problem.




Haven’t heard the full story but interested what exactly happened 
I suggest you start by reading the full story


----------



## moXJO (22 February 2020)

Humid said:


> Haven’t heard the full story but interested what exactly happened
> I suggest you start by reading the full story



I've heard one side. Tell me the other half.


----------



## Humid (22 February 2020)

How about the DVO after kidnapping his daughter on Boxing Day and not being happy with 50/50 custody
Did you miss that bit


----------



## moXJO (22 February 2020)

moXJO said:


> I've heard one side. Tell me the other half.



Does he have a history of mental illness, was he like this in other relationships, his family and friends history. 

Do we want to get to the source of problems to stop them in the future before they happen, or just complained men are evil and not address the root causes.


----------



## qldfrog (22 February 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Yes, we know there are plenty of nasty women also but they play a different game...and it's up to the man to not to provide ammunition.



Yes as per my entry, it is a loose loose game,killing with Fire is horrendous and he was a dick or probably a mentally sick one
But this is not to be used as another man bashing excuse, that is all few people know what happened, maybe no one will and the cop painted the obvious, but it is not allowed nowadays
Anyway, not my world and thanks God


----------



## frugal.rock (22 February 2020)

As a man, this is my general take.

The general theme being pushed in society is women's rights.
I see organisations backing (exploiting) this theme,
eg; Priceline pharmacy.
Just look at their advertising.
Personally, I feel alienated and wonder where is the neutrality, when seeing there ads, but this feeling isn't confined to this example.
I believe in equal opportunity, and accept and understand that the fairer sex have had a hard time throughout history.

Change is inevitable, it's being pushed hard by those women who wish to lead and dominate, driven by, in many cases, their personal experiences, others join the band wagon.
Should future policy be driven by man haters?
Not a great equal opportunity imo.
We are in a transition from thousands of years of the way it was, to the way it should be.
It's going to take time.

Meanwhile, men are feeling the pinch. We have grown up in a society that is constantly changing or evolving, where the traditional roles are changing.
This is creating uncertainty for men,
the effect is emotionally and mentally draining and obviously in some cases, the individual man reaches breaking point... it's in our nature or historical conditioning to "remain strong, take it in our stride".
We don't want to admit that we have these feelings.
A sign of weakness right? wrong... but there's another perception that needs to change, but it won't happen overnight.

Meanwhile, mental health of all affected suffers.
I don't see any? support groups advertised to assist men in this inevitable transition of societies expectations. Got a problem?, see a doctor, get medicated... hide the symptoms.
The whole situation needs to be examined by impartial parties without bias, with outcomes generated into education, for change to be implemented.
Men are willing to be SNAG's, but not at any cost.
Man hater's need to realise, if they continue down that path, there's always going to be men that despise women because of this minority, and ultimately, delay the much needed change process. Patience is a virtue.

F.Rock


----------



## moXJO (22 February 2020)

Humid said:


> How about the DVO after kidnapping his daughter on Boxing Day and not being happy with 50/50 custody
> Did you miss that bit



How is it kidnapping when it's his daughter?
That's the kind of sht  that causes conflict. He broke a court order.

It's already established he was fked  in the head. How did he reach that point and is it identifiable before it happened. Otherwise it's the equivalent of a lone wolf attack. Unpredictable. 

The finger of blame rests solely on him. Not looking at actionable ways of preventative measures falls on everyone.


----------



## SirRumpole (22 February 2020)

A lot of truth there frugal.

As I've said before there are men around that are complete b@stards and will control women because it makes them feel good. Unfortunately a lot of these cases end badly for the women concerned. More should be done to put these men away if it's determined that they a psychopathically inclined to violence.

However there are cases where a genuine loving husband gets jilted by his missus , gets thrown out of the house that he worked hard for to provide, and finds himself cut off from the kids. Can you blame men for being angry in these cases ? Maybe some of them are "driven over the edge" by the unfairness of it all. These things need consideration too.

The point is that the vast majority of men are not monsters. Those that are should be dealt with, the rest need to be given a fair go.


----------



## moXJO (22 February 2020)

Education on how to act around women and what's acceptable behavior should be encouraged. There are some really idiot guys with no clue out there.


----------



## SirRumpole (22 February 2020)

moXJO said:


> Education on how to act around women and what's acceptable behavior should be encouraged. There are some really idiot guys with no clue out there.




It should start in primary school imo.

Look at those idiots from St Kevin's.

Bogans don't just go to public schools.


----------



## Humid (22 February 2020)

moXJO said:


> How is it kidnapping when it's his daughter?
> That's the kind of sht  that causes conflict. He broke a court order.
> 
> It's already established he was fked  in the head. How did he reach that point and is it identifiable before it happened. Otherwise it's the equivalent of a lone wolf attack. Unpredictable.
> ...




THEIR


----------



## Smurf1976 (22 February 2020)

The issue is far broader than most want to admit.

A portion of the human population will dominate others no matter what the consequences. That’s the crux of it.

When it comes to physical violence, women and children are vulnerable primarily because they’re physically weaker than the average man. 

Reality though is that there’s plenty of men who aren’t particularly physical either. They’re also an easy target for others and there have been plenty of male victims of violence over the years too.

Elderly people of either gender are another group that’s vulnerable to physical, psychological or financial abuse and it’s not uncommon.

Plenty of horror stories from workplaces too where someone not in a position to easily walk away ends up being a victim of psychological, financial or less commonly physical abuse.

There’s a much bigger issue in all of this than most are willing to admit. It’s not at all uncommon.

The standard “move on” advice is well intentioned but fails to address the underlying problem. The perpetrator inevitably finds another target, usually almost immediately, and in some cases will continue to pursue the original target.

So long as there’s a focus on symptoms rather than underlying issues this won’t go away. It’ll keep happening with the sad reality that most suffer in silence and don’t make the national news.

Disclosure: I’ve been witness to a significant incident and the associated consequences. I also knew someone (male) who took their own life following a prolonged period of being targeted. 

I won’t go into the circumstances, there are still unresolved legal matters, but since I’ve previously made comments in regard to career and employment I will clarify that this was not a workplace incident involving any company, either government or privately owned, in the energy industry.

I will also clarify that I was a witness and am not an accused person. 

The issue has given me a changed perspective on life though that’s for sure - some things can’t be forgotten.


----------



## SirRumpole (22 February 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> The issue is far broader than most want to admit.




Good points. Scammers, rip off merchants in any industry do things because they can and they have the power.

What all these circumstances need is for people to gather around the victim and basically gang up on the perpetrator(s) and make them aware that the game is over for them unless they desist.

Easier said than done maybe. In some cases the perps have a lot of power and people are afraid to cross them. Example the Weinstien case (if proven) , Jimmy Saville, Rolf Harris etc. They all thought they could get away with it because they have power.

There are many cases of abuse beside domestic violence. It's part of a sick society.


----------



## SirRumpole (22 February 2020)

I'd also add the significant cases of school/ online bullying which have taken several lives. Abuse is not just done by individuals.


----------



## Smurf1976 (22 February 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Good points. Scammers, rip off merchants in any industry do things because they can and they have the power.




I claim no professional expertise on the subject but due to the observation I referred to, I've done my best to understand it all. 

In short, the typical setup involves a perpetrator in a position of power relative to the victim. That may be physical strength, economic control, the ability to make or break someone's career or reputation, access to children and so on. Any sort of power. They will also see themselves as being in some way superior to the victim. Physically, intellectually or otherwise. This may or may not be factual reality, what matters is the perception.

This may be on an individual basis, eg husband versus wife, or may be with the backing of a group - eg schoolyard or a large business situation. 

On the other side it involves a victim who has some reason to want to continue the relationship despite the abuse. Common examples include children, not wanting others to know their marriage is a failure, that the bully really does have the power to break them in some way (eg career or reputation), fear of physical safety, financial problems if they leave, etc.

Once those circumstances are in place and abuse starts, it becomes self-reinforcing in that the cycle of abuse slowly but surely wears down the victim. However able they were to leave right at the start, they will feel less able to leave as time passes. Eg a woman who now doubts her own desirability to other (sensible and non-abusive) men or an employee who now has doubts that anyone else would actually employ them. Etc. Slowly but surely shattering self-confidence is always a primary action of a bully since it traps the victim.

In doing that it's important to grasp that the bully is themselves essentially feeding an addiction. This is not in any way an attempt to defend but to explain and the analogy I've said to others is to liken it to drug addiction. An alcoholic doesn't want alcohol to look at or even because they enjoy it. Rather, they're feeding a chemical addiction. Same as a smoker doesn't want a cigarette in order to sit it on the table as an ornament. No, they want it in order to consume it - set it on fire and inhale the smoke in order to satisfy their addiction. A bully is similar, hence they'll always find another victim in the same way the alcoholic ensures they obtain alcohol, the smoker continues to buy cigarettes and so on.

If it continues long enough then eventually the victim does "break" in some way but the details vary hugely:

They might take their own life. More common than you might think - a not insignificant number of car "accidents" are really suicides, especially those which involve single occupant vehicles running into solid objects at high speed. 

They might collapse on the ground in tears unable to move. 

They might hurt the things they love - eg an art collector who smashes up everything they own or a car enthusiast who deliberately writes off what was their pride and joy. *Animals and children are at risk in this scenario*. 

They might seek revenge in an intellectual sort of way. Rip the rug out from under the perpetrator.

Or they might do something drastic. Think guns, fires, explosives etc sort of drastic. 

I'm no professional but that's my layman's terms explanation of it.


----------



## SirRumpole (22 February 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> They might seek revenge in an intellectual sort of way. Rip the rug out from under the perpetrator.
> 
> Or they might do something drastic. Think guns, fires, explosives etc sort of drastic.




I hesitate to call for yet another Royal Commission but the whole subject of abuse and power relationships needs to come out into the open. The Child Sexual Abuse , Disability and Aged Care abuse RC's and even the banking RC are really just discussing the same subject as it affects different groups, it's all part of the same pathology.


----------



## sptrawler (22 February 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> In doing that it's important to grasp that the bully is themselves essentially feeding an addiction. This is not in any way an attempt to defend but to explain and the analogy I've said to others is to liken it to drug addiction. An alcoholic doesn't want alcohol to look at or even because they enjoy it. Rather, they're feeding a chemical addiction. Same as a smoker doesn't want a cigarette in order to sit it on the table as an ornament. No, they want it in order to consume it - set it on fire and inhale the smoke in order to satisfy their addiction. A bully is similar, hence they'll always find another victim in the same way the alcoholic ensures they obtain alcohol, the smoker continues to buy cigarettes and so on.
> .



To a degree it is human nature, in times gone by eventually the bully was punished, either by a peer or by the authorities, now the belief is that punishment doesn't work.
Eventually I believe punishment will have to be re introduced, as the bullies push the boundaries, the boundaries of acceptable behavior move further into the unacceptable.
Just last week, a group of high school students attacked, bashed and robbed a young male at a busy train station. They were from a very upmarket school and area, they were suspended from school, for the maximum 10 days.
The victim is in an induced coma in hospital, they stole his shoes and phone.
https://7news.com.au/news/court-jus...udents-suspended-over-alleged-attack-c-701780

With the huge drug problem and its associated social problems and the obvious lack of respect being nurtured in society, it will only be a matter of time before a serious breakdown in the social structure happens. IMO


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## SirRumpole (22 February 2020)

sptrawler said:


> The victim is in an induced coma in hospital, they stole his shoes and phone.




They have been charged by the police as well, but should have been suspended for the duration of the trial.


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## basilio (22 February 2020)

It is a challenge to bite ones lips when something as  awful/tragic as this happens and we all wonder why.

The individual situation ? Who really knows* everything* yet. Certainly the way the husband behaved is at the extreme end of horror.  However the principles of people resolving domestic situations without the aggression and violence , largely  men driven, that underpin many domestic situations needs to be recognised .


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## basilio (22 February 2020)

This might add some clarity to the picture.
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...rke-and-her-childrens-experts-call-for-action


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## sptrawler (22 February 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> They have been charged by the police as well, but should have been suspended for the duration of the trial.



The problem is IMO, when a group of high school students think it is fine to run up behind an unsuspecting member of the public and jump up then kick them in the middle of the back, so the person face plants into a station platform then kick and stomp that person unconscious.
Just because they want his shoes and they come from wealthy families, tells me their is something seriously wrong with society, you can dress it up you can put lipstick on it, but to me it just shows how the problem is escalating.
I remember in my youth in the Goldfields a couple of guys beat the crap out of a guy in a wheel chair in the pub, they took off interstate, because they were going to end up in a wheel chair themselves. 
All this warm feel good stuff will end up in tears.


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## SirRumpole (22 February 2020)

sptrawler said:


> The problem is IMO, when a group of high school students think it is fine to run up behind an unsuspecting member of the public and jump up then kick them in the middle of the back, so the person face plants into a station platform then kick and stomp that person unconscious.
> Just because they want his shoes and they come from wealthy families, tells me their is something seriously wrong with society, you can dress it up you can put lipstick on it, but to me it just shows how the problem is escalating.
> I remember in my youth in the Goldfields a couple of guys beat the crap out of a guy in a wheel chair in the pub, they took off interstate, because they were going to end up in a wheel chair themselves.
> All this warm feel good stuff will end up in tears.




Yep, society is going down the gurgler for sure. Those kids will probably get a suspended sentence when it should be jail time with hard labour. That's where the Lefties do the damage, going on about the damage done to the kids futures etc not thinking about how soft sentences encourage others to do the same thing.


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## sptrawler (22 February 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Yep, society is going down the gurgler for sure. Those kids will probably get a suspended sentence when it should be jail time with hard labour. That's where the Lefties do the damage, going on about the damage done to the kids futures etc not thinking about how soft sentences encourage others to do the same thing.



Meanwhile you or me, or one of our kids, or grand kids is laying in a hospital bed in an induced coma.
What did they do wrong?


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## sptrawler (22 February 2020)

basilio said:


> It is a challenge to bite ones lips when something as  awful/tragic as this happens and we all wonder why.
> 
> The individual situation ? Who really knows* everything* yet. Certainly the way the husband behaved is at the extreme end of horror.  However the principles of people resolving domestic situations without the aggression and violence , largely  men driven, that underpin many domestic situations needs to be recognised .



A really good start would be the press, starting to treat people with respect, rather than making a National sport of tearing people down and being smug in the process.
Respect is something that our society ATM, puts little value on and like a cancer it grows and infiltrates into all parts of our lives.
What that person did torching his wife and children is beyond belief, but every day there is examples of how our society is tearing down the fabric of our society.
We delight in tearing down our politicians, the police are under more and more scrutiny for carrying out their duty in more and more dangerous circumstances yet the people they are having to deal with are becoming more and more violent , every pillar of our society is under the microscope.
The only people who are cut any slack, given every benefit of the doubt are the criminals, it is always the victims fault for putting themselves in a dangerous situation.
Yet the perpetrator can plead diminished responsibility for drugs or alchohol, then within a few years they get on with their lives, unfortunately too often the victim doesn't have that choice.
When children in school are bashing and swearing at their teachers, and the teachers are powerless to do anything about it, tells you society is breaking down.
There is an old saying, you can only reason from experience.


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## Smurf1976 (23 February 2020)

basilio said:


> However the principles of people resolving domestic situations without the aggression and violence , largely  men driven, that underpin many domestic situations needs to be recognised .




I agree with most of that but I'll add that women most certainly are violent.

It's just that female violence doesn't tend to take the form of physical aggression against a male victim for the obvious reason that the male is usually physically stronger. Rather, it takes a non-physical form but it's still abuse and it's violence of a sort albeit not physically. It won't likely kill the victim with a gun or a punch but it may well lead to them taking their own life or suffering in other ways which does have the potential, in the event of a breakdown, to impact others (children, animals, property of any sort, other people).

All genders are capable of destruction and all do it just in different ways. 

I'm heterosexual and never been otherwise but I've been assured that violence most certainly does occur in same sex relationships just as it occurs in opposite sex relationships. That includes F-F as well as M-M since more often than not, one partner has greater physical strength than the other so the same potential exists as it does in a heterosexual relationship.

Humans are really quite crap in some ways. 

Something that does interest me though, in terms of how the human mind works, is if you look at dating sites from an analytical perspective. I mean sites aimed at people wanting long term relationships not just casual encounters.

Long story short, once you start categorising with all this in mind a rather concerning pattern does emerge. Some men make it clear that they're not interested in dating any woman they can't dominate physically but this preference is even stronger among women, they're specifically not interested in a man who doesn't have a physical build and strength advantage.

That's certainly not all men and it's certainly not all women but it's not uncommon that a woman won't date any man who doesn't have a height and perceived strength advantage over her and it's not uncommon that men avoid women who aren't physically weaker than they are. 

From the perspective of women and safety, that's akin to walking into a car dealership and saying you don't want any car with a 5 star ANCAP rating or looking at houses and specifically insisting that the place you buy must be built entirely from untreated pine to ensure it burns easily and that termites can chomp straight through it. Makes no rational sense.


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## qldfrog (23 February 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Makes no rational sense.



In a word: humanity


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## SirRumpole (23 February 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Long story short, once you start categorising with all this in mind a rather concerning pattern does emerge. Some men make it clear that they're not interested in dating any woman they can't dominate physically but this preference is even stronger among women, _*they're specifically not interested in a man who doesn't have a physical build and strength advantage.*_




Yes, but I don't think women are attracted to men with a strength advantage over women, they want a man with a strength advantage over other men, ie a protection factor for themselves (they think).

Some women seem to have a fantasy about their ideal man, the "strong silent type" who will protect them from the wimps in society who are after their bodies. They don't seem to realise that there is "toxic masculinity" out there who will turn this strength advantage against them.

So some predetermined fantasies have to be broken down I think and psychological factors should be examined by anyone seeking a partner rather than just physical ones.


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## macca (23 February 2020)

Another recurring them is that after a relationship fails, very often each person goes there own way but ends up in a very similar type of relationship but with someone else.

Almost like the story is the same just with different names and faces

I know a lady who is addicted to finding broken men to fix up, addicts, drunks or violent are the types she likes, I am a healer she says, I like to feel needed.

Some of the things she tells us !!, never a dull moment in her life


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## SirRumpole (23 February 2020)

Yes I also think that some women are aware of the violent or misogynist nature of the men they take up with but think that they (the woman) can "tame" them. Sometimes it might work , other times not.


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## sptrawler (23 February 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> I agree with most of that but I'll add that women most certainly are violent.
> 
> It's just that female violence doesn't tend to take the form of physical aggression.



A close relative of my wife and her husband have broken up after nearly 30 years, they struggled through IVF, but ended up with three lovely children.
Well unfortunately a couple of the children suffered suffered medical conditions, the husband ran a business spent a lot of time in helping the older child with issues and spent a lot of time in the evenings in hospital with the youngest child, all in all it was a terrible time for everyone.
However no matter how much effort he put in his wife complained it wasn't enough, she was putting in a lot of hours as she was  a full time mum, in the end the children got better but the marriage got worse.
My immediate family had a tragic accident, I found it really interesting that when anyone broached the subject, they always asked how my wife was managing.
No one ever asked how I was travelling, not that it bothered me, but it was plainly obvious that I as a man was expected to just get on with it.


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## SirRumpole (23 February 2020)

sptrawler said:


> A close relative of my wife and her husband have broken up after nearly 30 years, they struggled through IVF, but ended up with three lovely children.
> Well unfortunately a couple of the children suffered suffered medical conditions, the husband ran a business spent a lot of time in helping the older child with issues and spent a lot of time in the evenings in hospital with the youngest child, all in all it was a terrible time for everyone.
> However no matter how much effort he put in his wife complained it wasn't enough, she was putting in a lot of hours as she was  a full time mum, in the end the children got better but the marriage got worse.
> My immediate family had a tragic accident, I found it really interesting that when anyone broached the subject, they always asked how my wife was managing.
> No one ever asked how I was travelling, not that it bothered me, but it was plainly obvious that I as a man was expected to just get on with it.




Sorry that happened to you sp. A bit of understanding goes a long way, I'm sorry you didn't get much.

Lack of understanding seems to be a factor in a very high male suicide rate (about three times that of females). As you say , men are just expected to cope but obviously a lot aren't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Australia


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## sptrawler (23 February 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Sorry that happened to you sp. A bit of understanding goes a long way, I'm sorry you didn't get much.
> 
> Lack of understanding seems to be a factor in a very high male suicide rate (about three times that of females). As you say , men are just expected to cope but obviously a lot aren't.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Australia



Unless you are the type of person, that just accepts that life can deal you a $hit hand and get on with it, I can very easily understand how suicide would appear an option.


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## macca (23 February 2020)

I think it is both nature and nurture, women love to talk and share all sorts of info with other women. This allows them to clarify things in their mind and the old saying "a trouble shared is a trouble halved" does hold true IMO

My missus will talk to anyone, anywhere and the things people tell her 5mins after they meet her are weird, just as well I am not the jealous type.

Blokes just say "too much information" when the nitty gritty gets an airing unless it is of common interest to both blokes.

However, most men have been brought up with the expectation that they are the strong ones and should protect their women from trouble, so rather than discuss their problem they protect their women by not talking about it with them.

The other difference is that women let other women have their say without much interruption, whereas men by nature are problem solvers. This leads to men interrupting with solutions to the perceived problem when women don't want a solution they just want "have a bitch" about something.

Took me 40 years to work that one out


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## Smurf1976 (24 February 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Lack of understanding seems to be a factor in a very high male suicide rate (about three times that of females). As you say , men are just expected to cope but obviously a lot aren't.




I think a big issue is that society has created an expectation that there's some sort of support, help etc available.

Various mental health campaigns over the years on TV and radio. Things like employers putting posters up around the office and so on. They all send basically the same message - if you need help, it's OK, talk to someone.

In practice it seems that such supports aren't really there in practice. As they go to access each support, they find it's either not really there at all or it crumbles beneath them.

They go to their friends and find that who they thought were friends aren't really true friends at all. For many people, especially men, this will turn out to be most of their "friends".

Fair chance they'll get the same with family. What they thought would be there isn't really.

They go to their employer and it's hit and miss. Might get a good response, might end up being marched out the door. Some employers have good policies, some don't, but very few have the skills required within management to determine that an employee's circumstances are in fact due to a mental health issue such that there's a very good chance of an inappropriate response making things worse.

Overall I'd liken the situation to having an empty fire extinguisher mounted on the wall with the obligatory sign above it. Looks like everything's taken care of but in truth it does more harm than good - in a real fire you'd be better off not wasting time with something that's not going to be of any help whatsoever. Better to have nothing there and for that to be obvious than to create an illusion of safety which isn't real. Society's overall response to mental health seems much like that - looks good but in practice just diverts time and resources away from anything which might actually help. 

I don't have any real solutions to all that but one thing I'll say is the women have it closer to right than men do typically. To be clear, I'm a bloke and I've always been around stereotypical male sorts of things in terms of work, hobbies and so on but if there's one thing men need to do it's open their mouths more and also shut their mouths. Speak and listen. Do more of both. A lot more. Listening does not mean offering a solution - it means listening. Actually listening and no squirming once it gets painfully detailed.


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## SirRumpole (24 February 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> I think a big issue is that society has created an expectation that there's some sort of support, help etc available.




You see cases like this a lot.

People like police or ambos who attend horrific scenes are expected to keep doing this unemotionally or be regarded as "weak".

This 2014 report shows the situation at that time. You have to hope the situation has  improved since then.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...the-job-on-mental-health-20141129-11wn1j.html


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## Smurf1976 (24 February 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> You see cases like this a lot.
> 
> People like police or ambos who attend horrific scenes are expected to keep doing this unemotionally or be regarded as "weak".




Another thing, and I've seen this play out as an observer, is that a sociopath does not lose their skills to manipulate once the matter goes to court. 

Oh no they don't. That's when it ramps up hence they usually escape any meaningful punishment and carry on abusing.

That there doesn't seem to be any effective way of dealing with bullies, sociopaths and the like until such point as they do something truly drastic is a big part of the problem. A victim can be 100% certain of what's going on, they can have plenty of examples and evidence, they can be willing to take the matter to court but that doesn't mean they'll actually put a stop to it. At best, they might put a stop to themselves being the target but ultimately the individual walks free to go and do it to someone else which usually they will.


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## basilio (24 February 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Another thing, and I've seen this play out as an observer, is that a sociopath does not lose their skills to manipulate once the matter goes to court.
> 
> Oh no they don't. That's when it ramps up hence they usually escape any meaningful punishment and carry on abusing.
> 
> That there doesn't seem to be any effective way of dealing with bullies, sociopaths and the like until such point as they do something truly drastic is a big part of the problem. A victim can be 100% certain of what's going on, they can have plenty of examples and evidence, they can be willing to take the matter to court but that doesn't mean they'll actually put a stop to it. At best, they might put a stop to themselves being the target but ultimately the individual walks free to go and do it to someone else which usually they will.




So well worth repeating.  Real and terrifying.


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## Smurf1976 (24 February 2020)

basilio said:


> So well worth repeating.  Real and terrifying.



Biggest red flag, an early warning sign, is anyone who imposes rules for the sake of it.

Many rules in society are necessary. Eg we need road rules not so much for their detail but to get everyone to do the same thing under the same circumstances. We could change the rules but what matters is that what you do, and what I in another car think you're going to do, are the same thing. Rules like that are reasonable and necessary.

Many people however impose rules for no reason. Governments do it, businesses do it, individuals do it. That's always a huge red flag if the only purpose of the rule is exercising control for the sake of control, it's not applying consistency where it's needed (eg driving) and it's not preventing what would otherwise be some actual problem.

As one silly example, well I know someone who strictly controlled the amount of firewood his wife put on the fire during the day whilst he was at work. Controlled to the point of numbering the logs and checking the pile each day - I kid you not. Now they weren't poor, he had a full time job paying reasonably, and firewood's pretty cheap to buy in that location anyway so no real reason to be worried about it to the point of counting out the logs. He certainly wasn't an environmentalist in thinking so it wasn't concern about that sort of thing driving it either, it was just control for the sake of it.

Even if they had been poor and needing to ration their use of things, it still wouldn't warrant the incredible level of distrust displayed toward his wife by him literally numbering the logs of wood and checking each day.

I couldn't do anything about any other domestic situations that might've been going on, I had no proof of that, but I most certainly did stop him stealing the company's spray paint cans for the purpose of numbering the wood. 

He was not a physically abusive man so far as I know but he was certainly abusive in other ways that's for sure. Control freak to the max, giving people the silent treatment, grunting and yelling etc.

Avoid such people. Regardless of whether or not they turn physically violent it's a huge red flag that the potential is there, the mind's not working well.


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## SirRumpole (25 February 2020)

Political correctness again ?

This ABC story pours heaps on Bettina Arndt for her comments, but nowhere that I can see does it quote her exact words and let us make up  our own minds about what she said.

The ABC is getting more into just telling one side of the story I'm afraid.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02...tina-arndt-to-be-stripped-of-honours/12000314


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## joeno (25 February 2020)

It always has a narrative in Australia and other western countries. Which is a media driven effort to promote loving blacks. Loving muslims. Hate aboriginals. Hate Asians. No reason, that's the narrative.


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## sptrawler (25 February 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Political correctness again ?
> 
> This ABC story pours heaps on Bettina Arndt for her comments, but nowhere that I can see does it quote her exact words and let us make up  our own minds about what she said.
> 
> ...



I was wondering what she said, it sounds like another Israel Folau, Margaret Court style witch hunt, get the pitchforks out and the bonfire going sort of stuff.


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## macca (26 February 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I was wondering what she said, it sounds like another Israel Folau, Margaret Court style witch hunt, get the pitchforks out and the bonfire going sort of stuff.




from Bettina Arndts twitter

<<A senior Queensland police officer is stood aside for doing his job professionally and telling the truth about how an incident should be investigated. This could well be a tipping point. I constantly hear from police appalled at being required to impose unjust laws and...>>


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## SirRumpole (26 February 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I was wondering what she said, it sounds like another Israel Folau, Margaret Court style witch hunt, get the pitchforks out and the bonfire going sort of stuff.




The coroner will have to make an unemotional report on this case, and if they find that there are factors like say a Family Court ruling that may have contributed to this guy going of the deep end , will there be a great outcry by the media calling for the Coroner's sacking ?


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## basilio (26 February 2020)

macca said:


> from Bettina Arndts twitter
> 
> <<A senior Queensland police officer is stood aside for doing his job professionally and telling the truth about how an incident should be investigated. This could well be a tipping point. I constantly hear from police appalled at being required to impose unjust laws and...>>




I think this is sheer,  nasty, bloody rubbish.

There was no "justification" in any universe for the horrible murder of Hannah Baxter and  and the three  children.
Even at this stage all the comments from friends and family say this guy was a control freak who was determined to rule his roost whatever happened

The cop who made the comment recognized very quickly that he had made a mess of his statement. He apologised unreservedly.  For Bettina Ardnt and those who use his statements, twist them and milk this murder in the names of men rights is unconscionable.

For Gods sake find another another example that has some resemblance of fairness. This isn't it.


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## sptrawler (26 February 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> The coroner will have to make an unemotional report on this case, and if they find that there are factors like say a Family Court ruling that may have contributed to this guy going of the deep end , will there be a great outcry by the media calling for the Coroner's sacking ?



It is just amazing at the moment, that only one side of an issue has the right to be aired, it is like the guy that was sacked from insiders. I never heard him but it sounds like he just would not parrot what was required.
I think all this does is cause more negative sentiment, against those pushing the agenda and results in a backlash against what they  support. A totalitarian attitude, that doesn't allow open debate, ends with a counter productive outcome IMO
The people still think what they want, but they don't voice it and that it what has stuffed up polling. 
Anyone who has an opposing view to the media, just say nothing, untill they are in private with like minded people.
These days, it all has to be about the emotion, rather than the underlying issues.
Something triggered that person to kill those he loved and himself, or he should have been in an institution, which he wasn't. So it obviously needs investigating, or nothing is learnt.


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## moXJO (26 February 2020)

basilio said:


> I think this is sheer,  nasty, bloody rubbish.
> 
> There was no "justification" in any universe for the horrible murder of Hannah Baxter and  and the three  children.
> Even at this stage all the comments from friends and family say this guy was a control freak who was determined to rule his roost whatever happened
> ...



Wtf does that have to do with a police investigation?

Last time I checked investigations are not run by emotions for proof.


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## moXJO (26 February 2020)

> A friend of the family, Simon Farmer, said Baxter was “very emotional, very upset” when he FaceTimed the kids the night before.
> 
> “Hannah noticed that there was a distinct change in terms of, whether we want to call it unravelling, but a heightened level of emotion,” he told the program.
> 
> ...




There's a point that it comes to where guys go unhinged. I've seen it many times. 
This will keep happening imo, there just isn't enough resources to deal with it.

One guy I knew went full bore. He almost ran another woman that I also knew off the road in a rage incident. When the guy realized he knew the woman he said it was "nothing personal". Police said he was after anyone that night.
Fast forward a few weeks and he is on the roof of his house taking pot shots at police. I think he might of killed someone as well, was a while back. Ended up putting one through himself.

The signs are there but not a lot that can be done. People around them need to notice.


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## SirRumpole (26 February 2020)

basilio said:


> There was no "justification" in any universe for the horrible murder of Hannah Baxter and and the three children.




No justification, but there are always reasons, and unless we know what they are nothing will be learned.

The fact that the guy killed himself in a gruesome way indicates that he was seriously deranged or had some remorse.

Anyway I guess it doesn't matter since he's now dead, but there are others out there like him who maybe can be stopped from doing something similar.


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## sptrawler (26 February 2020)

moXJO said:


> There's a point that it comes to where guys go unhinged. I've seen it many times.
> This will keep happening imo, there just isn't enough resources to deal with it.
> 
> One guy I knew went full bore. He almost ran another woman that I also knew off the road in a rage incident. When the guy realized he knew the woman he said it was "nothing personal". Police said he was after anyone that night.
> ...



Mental institutions are a thing of the past, they were closed down because, the perception was that people were being ill treated and locked up.
Well I guess some people, who have mental issue that make them extremely dangerous to society, maybe do need to be placed in care.
Then the people who have to deal with them, are put at risk, but they are subject scrutiny which makes their job nearly impossible.
Meanwhile the next issue comes up on the media, and the mob runs off down the hill with the pichforks, answering the next call to arms.
Just my opinion.


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## IFocus (26 February 2020)

sptrawler said:


> it is like the guy that was sacked from insiders. I never heard him but it sounds like he just would not parrot what was required.




Nope nothing like that at all, followed Henderson for a very long time while not agreeing with much of his opinion when it came to politics he was reasonable for a conservative often backing Gillard against many of Abbotts BS claims. 

He was aging and it looks like David Speers wants a younger line up with modern views.


----------



## IFocus (26 February 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Mental institutions are a thing of the past, they were closed down because, the perception was that people were being ill treated and locked up.




Nope....again  worked in a few as an apprentice far worse than depicted in any movie absolute horror houses that's why they were closed.

As a 16 / 17 year old only place I was more afraid was a women's prison.


----------



## sptrawler (26 February 2020)

IFocus said:


> Nope....again  worked in a few as an apprentice far worse than depicted in any movie absolute horror houses that's why they were closed.
> 
> As a 16 / 17 year old only place I was more afraid was a women's prison.



Yes my wife worked in Heathcote mental facility, as part of her RN training in the 1970's, so she has actually had some first hand experience of locked wards.


----------



## IFocus (26 February 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Yes my wife worked in Heathcote mental facility, as part of her RN training in the 1970's, so she has actually had some first hand experience of locked wards.




Ah that really would be the pointy end  what a wife


----------



## sptrawler (26 February 2020)

IFocus said:


> Ah that really would be the pointy end  what a wife



Yes she got a wake up call, when an ex policeman kneed her in the crutch and she was bedridden for two weeks, made her a bit more focused on her audience.
Stuffed up my home life for a while though.


----------



## Smurf1976 (26 February 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> No justification, but there are always reasons, and unless we know what they are nothing will be learned.




In engineering and related fields such as aviation, when something goes badly wrong there's a massive effort put in to determining precisely how and why.

It's not sufficient to say that something collapsed, crashed or tripped offline. Not even close. What's needed is to understand the precise details of what failed, in what order, and why.

Such investigations can take years. Recovering all possible details from the site of the real incident. Checking over all the original designs, as built drawings, calculations and so on. Analysing every available photo. Building precision scale models and simulating the exact chain of events and ensuring that it adds up. And so on.

The reason is simple. Only by understanding the detail of how it went terribly wrong can we confidently take action to prevent a recurrence.

That process is ultimately why, in developed countries at least, things like bridge, dam or building collapses, large aircraft crashes and so on are extremely uncommon relative to the number of bridges, dams, buildings and planes in use. That's because every possible effort has been made to learn from past mistakes and not repeat them.

All that does not guarantee that nothing will go wrong ever again but it does greatly reduce the probability that any given bridge collapses or that any given flight ends in disaster. It saves an awful lot of lives compared to not taking that approach.

If we're going to fix this issue of abuse, be it physical, psychological, financial etc then first we need to properly understand what's happened and is happening, what's going wrong and so on. Only after investigating that do we have a basis for an informed response to fix the problem.


----------



## sptrawler (27 February 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Yes she got a wake up call, when an ex policeman kneed her in the crutch and she was bedridden for two weeks, made her a bit more focused on her audience.
> Stuffed up my home life for a while though.



Funny how we were talking this subject yesterday, the fact nurses are exposed to patients with mental health issues, due to the fact facilities get closed. 
This happened last Sunday.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02...ocked-unconcious-in-modbury-hospital/12006510
From the article:
_A nurse was knocked unconscious, was turning purple, had no pulse and had to be revived by a doctor in an assault reported by the nurses' union at Adelaide's Modbury Hospital.
It said the woman was found on the floor of an elderly male patient's room last Sunday afternoon.

The union said she was revived after a doctor administered CPR and was then admitted to the emergency department before being released the next afternoon.
She said the patient who attacked the nurse had severe dementia and was later transferred to the Lyell McEwin Hospital.

However the union said Lyell McEwin staff were not immediately told about the assault or earlier incidents of assaults and abuse by the patient, which included spitting at staff_.

It is fair and good to be really concerned that the patient is really well looked after, but what does a nurse do dealing with this sort of person in a C class hospital, where you may have one RN and one helper on shift with 30 patients?


----------



## moXJO (27 February 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Funny how we were talking this subject yesterday, the fact nurses are exposed to patients with mental health issues, due to the fact facilities get closed.
> This happened last Sunday.
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02...ocked-unconcious-in-modbury-hospital/12006510
> From the article:
> ...



Dementia is a terrible thing. The can get really violent.


----------



## sptrawler (27 February 2020)

moXJO said:


> Dementia is a terrible thing. They can get really violent.



Yes, unfortunately only one side of the issue gets a lot of air play. It is usually the story about the patient who has been sedated, but everyone thinks of dementia people as small, frail old people, some are strapping athletic blokes who have lost their mental faculties.


----------



## sptrawler (4 March 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> No justification, but there are always reasons, and unless we know what they are nothing will be learned.
> 
> The fact that the guy killed himself in a gruesome way indicates that he was seriously deranged or had some remorse.
> 
> Anyway I guess it doesn't matter since he's now dead, but there are others out there like him who maybe can be stopped from doing something similar.



I see in one of the tabloids a headline saying there has been a spike in 'You're next' domestic violence incidents, since the terrible incident.
It just goes to show, that what those chastised people were saying is exactly right, we need to find out what is driving these people to adopt that attitude.
It is ridiculous that a separation should end up as many do, in violence. 
Just my opinion.


----------



## wayneL (6 March 2020)

I suppose this is the right thread.


----------



## moXJO (6 March 2020)

wayneL said:


> I suppose this is the right thread.




Jesus, that's what we have come to. Never used NAB though, won't start now.


----------



## dutchie (19 May 2020)

And here I was thinking that this sort of sh#t would go away with the China Virus problems.


----------



## DB008 (21 June 2020)

*'Changing the name won't stamp out the problem'*​The boss of Colonial Brewing Co. says changing its name won't stamp out the problem.

Lawrence Dowd, the company's managing director, says an announcement on the name change will be made soon, but clarified it wasn't intended to offend. "I think actions speak louder," Mr Lawrence told Today.

"It hasn't been a part of our narrative to celebrate colonialism or imperialism, we have been very forward about that."

Mr Lawrence said the company is reviewing its name after a Melbourne bottle shop chose to take the range off its shelves.

He clarified that Colonial Brewing Co. originated in 2004 and its name came from the microbrewing company colonising in the famous Margaret River wine region.

"They were basically colonising a beer company in a very famous wine region," Mr Lawrence said.

"That's where the name came from. I don't think there was any malice in them starting the name."

The popular  Western Australian beer brewing company received social media backlash recently, resulting in independent bottle shop Blackhearts and Sparrows dropping its products from shelves.

The company is based in the Bramley Brook Valley north-east of the Margaret River.

Blackhearts & Sparrows, which has stores in Victoria, the ACT and Tasmania, confirmed it will no longer stock Colonial's products amid the backlash and the Black Lives Matter movement, which has lead to rioting in the US and protests across the globe.

"While we appreciate that the people behind Colonial Brewing had no malicious intent in their choice of brand name, words have power," the store said in a statement.

"We've had discussions with Colonial in the past with concerns about their name, but with their branding remaining the same our decision was clear.

"Colonial is still a problematic word that speaks to a broader history of colonialism and colonisation that has caused irreversible harm to the First Nations people in Australia and Indigenous populations around the world."​

https://www.9news.com.au/national/c...s-matter/c7566c3a-542f-4a47-9440-ba0d9edc56c2
​


----------



## DB008 (24 June 2020)

*Nestle to change names of Allen's Lollies
products Red Skins and Chicos*​Confectionary company Nestle has announced it plans to rename its Allen's Lollies-branded Red Skins and Chicos products due to overtones "out of step" with its values.

In a statement, the firm said the decision was made to ensure "nothing we do marginalises our friends, neighbours and colleagues".

Nestle added: "These names have overtones which are out of step with Nestle's values, which are rooted in respect."

The company said it had yet to finalise the products' new names, but that it would "move quickly" to do so.

Allen's Lollies also shared a statement confirming the news: "At Allen's we are about creating smiles … This decision acknowledges the need to keep creating smiles."​


*Calls for COON Cheese to change name*​The makers of Australia's COON cheese have been called out by social media users including comedian Josh Thomas over the meaning attached to its brand name amid the Black Lives Matter movement and an international push to remove monuments recognising colonial figures.

The term "coon" is a derogatory word used to describe black people.

The company said in a statement: "The Coon Cheese brand name recognises the work of Edward William Coon, who patented a unique ripening process that was used to manufacture the original Coon Cheese."​

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06...cos-allens-lollies-rebrand-overtones/12384986

​


----------



## wayneL (24 June 2020)

Nice little blow up in the UK at the Burnley v Man City match.

Great troll that exposes the megalithic hypocrisy of the Postmodern elite and has sparked some honest conversation among the proles.


----------



## SirRumpole (6 September 2020)

Cancel culture at work again.

https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/prog...g-beauty-products-ever-not-be-racist/12627122


----------



## sptrawler (7 September 2020)

John Cleese nails it IMO:
‘*I don’t think we should organise a society around the sensibilities of the most easily upset people because then you have a very neurotic society*.’


Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2020/09/03/john...g-political-correctness-13217733/?ito=cbshare

Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MetroUK/


----------



## satanoperca (7 September 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Cancel culture at work again.
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/prog...g-beauty-products-ever-not-be-racist/12627122




The world is going crazy.

White people want to be tanned/black.

Yellow people want to be white.

Yes both statements are racist but know skin products are racist. Yes, the world has gone mad OR

We as a society has become consumed with the need for need data/information/news even the irrational stores start to become rational.


----------



## IFocus (7 September 2020)

sptrawler said:


> John Cleese nails it IMO:
> ‘*I don’t think we should organise a society around the sensibilities of the most easily upset people because then you have a very neurotic society*.’
> 
> 
> ...




So John Cleese hasn't been to the US then (neurotic society)


----------



## sptrawler (7 September 2020)

IFocus said:


> So John Cleese hasn't been to the US then (neurotic society)



He is very familiar with the U.S, I think he was married to an American:

Fawlty Towers star *John Cleese* claims a reported $23 million *divorce* settlement with this third wife will leave him poorer than her and bound to work well into his 70s.


----------



## sptrawler (9 September 2020)

This AMP (Mr Pahari) issue is starting to morph into another over the top issue IMO.
When does punishment get decided by the mob? He apparently was fined and spoken to by the company, for his sexually inappropriate suggestions to a co worker in 2017, at a later date he applied for and was given a promotion.
Then recently those who gave him the promotion were sacked, now there is a call for the person to be sacked.
It doesn't affect me in any way, but I can't help but think it is falling into mob rule, when someone acts badly but doesn't do anything illegal is it correct to chastise and punish the person or should the person be sacked?
It does open a can of worms, who decides what is punishable and what punishment should be metered out and after receiving the punishment and counselling should the person then be sacked which could affect future employment opportunities?
It is a bit like sending someone to jail for something, then when they come out, the mob saying oh well hang them anyway.
Interesting the way society is now being ruled by the very ones who call for compassion, yet are very reluctant to show it themselves IMO.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09...ak-up-company-profit-focus-backfires/12641742

Interesting times.


----------



## IFocus (9 September 2020)

sptrawler said:


> This AMP (Mr Pahari) issue is starting to morph into another over the top issue IMO.
> When does punishment get decided by the mob? He apparently was fined and spoken to by the company, for his sexually inappropriate suggestions to a co worker in 2017, at a later date he applied for and was given a promotion.
> Then recently those who gave him the promotion were sacked, now there is a call for the person to be sacked.
> It doesn't affect me in any way, but I can't help but think it is falling into mob rule, when someone acts badly but doesn't do anything illegal is it correct to chastise and punish the person or should the person be sacked?
> ...




Nope , its business affect the bottom line / name / what every you are gone simple.


----------



## sptrawler (9 September 2020)

IFocus said:


> Nope , its business affect the bottom line / name / what every you are gone simple.



AMP's bottom line/name was gone long before any of this, it is just a new generation of control, whether it works out for the better or even gets traction remains to be seen. AMP was a soft easy target, on their knees, not a friend in the world, easy target for the outspoken self righteous social engineers. Smacks of the Isreal Folau situation.
Time will tell.


----------



## Smurf1976 (9 September 2020)

IFocus said:


> Nope , its business affect the bottom line / name / what every you are gone simple.



Whilst I agree that is true, should it really be so in a case like this? From a strict business perspective sure, but ethically? 

Should someone be sacked if they say something about (for random examples) climate change or sugar being a problem? Drawing attention to either is, after all, not good for the bottom line of rather a lot of businesses so should employees be expected to deny the existence of such issues or at least not acknowledge them?

And so on. If the principle is valid then it stands in both directions.


----------



## macca (9 September 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Whilst I agree that is true, should it really be so in a case like this? From a strict business perspective sure, but ethically?
> 
> Should someone be sacked if they say something about (for random examples) climate change or sugar being a problem? Drawing attention to either is, after all, not good for the bottom line of rather a lot of businesses so should employees be expected to deny the existence of such issues or at least not acknowledge them?
> 
> And so on. If the principle is valid then it stands in both directions.




It starts to get complicated, should everyone who works for Rothmans smoke to set a good example.

Should everyone who works for Tooheys have a beer or three every night

I could work for Peters or Streets, I eat enough ice cream to get a promotion and a bonus


----------



## Smurf1976 (9 September 2020)

macca said:


> It starts to get complicated, should everyone who works for Rothmans smoke to set a good example.
> 
> Should everyone who works for Tooheys have a beer or three every night



Or at least avoid any acknowledgement or inference that they don't smoke or drink.

Eg don't post anything on Facebook which suggests they go to gyms not the pub. Etc.

There's a million possible examples and the whole concept's a very slippery slope in my view and such matters are best dealt with by proper application of laws implemented by democratically elected governments not the mob.


----------



## sptrawler (9 September 2020)

The thing is the shareholders elect their board to run the company, the board disciplined an employee and financially punished him for extremely bad behaviour as far as the board was concerned the problem had been dealt with.
The shareholders were unhappy with the way the board handled the situation, therefore two of the board were basically stood down and the perpetrator of the original incident was demoted, now months later the shareholders have decided the person should have been sacked two years earlier when the incident happened and are demanding he be sacked now.
I can't see how that wouldn't be a case of unfair dismissal. 
Also it wont be long, before boards have to send every decision they make, out to shareholders to vote on
Just my opinion, it should prove to be a very interesting issue to watch unfold.


----------



## Smurf1976 (9 September 2020)

sptrawler said:


> The shareholders were unhappy with the way the board handled the situation, therefore two of the board were basically stood down and the perpetrator of the original incident was demoted, now months later the shareholders have decided the person should have been sacked two years earlier when the incident happened and are demanding he be sacked now.
> I can't see how that wouldn't be a case of unfair dismissal.




Has this been put to a formal vote of any sort?

Presumably not every single shareholder would have the same view on this or any other matter so if the company's going to do something which will cost it even more money, via unfair dismissal and the reputational repercussions of that, then it would be inappropriate if there wasn't proof that a majority of shareholders supported that course of action given that it's overriding the board normally expected to run the company.


----------



## SirRumpole (9 September 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> There's a million possible examples and the whole concept's a very slippery slope in my view and such matters are best dealt with by proper application of laws implemented by democratically elected governments not the mob.




I certainly agree, but public opinion is a powerful weapon and anyone who can control it wields a big stick.

You can't really stop people not buying products that they might ethically disagree with , and this form of protest is pretty useful if you want to say, stop the ivory trade or stop killing endangered animals for furs, medicines etc.

But certainly people shouldn't be victimised for saying things that their employers disagree with, (back to the Folau case again). It just seemed to me that a lot of people's opinons on his case depended on whether they agreed with what he said, not on his right to say it. 

As you pointed out there are lots of shades of grey in the whole freedom of speech debate , especially on social media and a lot of it is going into  very dark places and will be difficult to untangle , even with the best will in the world.


----------



## sptrawler (9 September 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Has this been put to a formal vote of any sort?
> 
> Presumably not every single shareholder would have the same view on this or any other matter so if the company's going to do something which will cost it even more money, via unfair dismissal and the reputational repercussions of that, then it would be inappropriate if there wasn't proof that a majority of shareholders supported that course of action given that it's overriding the board normally expected to run the company.



At the moment it is only the media banging a drum, and politicians trying to get political mileage, but from this statement in the article the intent seems  obviously to put pressure on shareholders. As one of the major shareholders comments indicate, it puts them in an awkward position.

_Mr Pahari has since been demoted back to his old job, still earning millions of dollars a year.

Labor senator Deborah O'Neill, who two weeks ago revealed in Parliament further sexual harassment allegations directed at other senior staff at AMP, is in no doubt Mr Pahari should have been fired.

"Profit at any price is not commerce," she said, "it's exploitation.

"And what we've seen with the continuing engagement of Mr Pahari in that role is dollars trumping the reality of the human experience."_
That has focussed attention on those same shareholders who forced out previous company chairman David Murray, and Mr Pahari's boss John Fraser.
"I think we are conflicted. I wouldn't like to hide behind that," Mr Mawhinney admitted.

_Mr Mawhinney said he moved against the board of AMP because it underplayed the severity of what was revealed about Mr Pahari's behaviour.

As for concerns that investors have been protecting Mr Pahari, he points out the bad behaviour happened in 2017.

"It's incredibly unusual for boards and management teams to go back and retrospectively put their stamp on decisions made in the past," he said.

"And this whole concept of double jeopardy, where you don't try someone twice for the same crime, is potentially relevant."

However, Senator Deborah O'Neill wonders how AMP can move forward while Mr Pahari is still there_.

I miss stated in the earlier post it is the shareholders calling for the sacking, when it is actually the Labor senator, my mistake.
It sounds as though the major shareholders realise they are skating on thin ice.


----------



## Value Collector (10 September 2020)

Tink said:


> Push to rid gender from birth certificates
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10...smania-government-against-amendments/10423686




Queensland has never mentioned gender on the birth certificates, it only states what sex the baby was born as.

Aren’t the other states the same?


----------



## noirua (5 October 2021)

Never flinch, never weary, and never despair - President Ronald Reagan


----------



## sptrawler (14 October 2021)

This is worth repeating IMO, so it isn't lost.


SirRumpole said:


> I certainly agree, but public opinion is a powerful weapon and anyone who can control it wields a big stick.
> 
> You can't really stop people not buying products that they might ethically disagree with , and this form of protest is pretty useful if you want to say, stop the ivory trade or stop killing endangered animals for furs, medicines etc.
> 
> ...



Priceless IMO.


----------



## basilio (15 October 2021)

The new Politically Correct world of Texas _*requires teachers who discuss “widely debated and currently controversial issues of public policy or social affairs” to examine the issues from diverse viewpoints without giving “deference to any one perspective”*_.

Indeed.. So of course schools are now required to ensure that all perspectives are given due coverage to any controversial issue.

Which leads us to some sticky questions.

Texas school official says classrooms with books on Holocaust must offer ‘opposing’ views​In recording obtained by NBC News, curriculum director describes ‘political mess’ after passage of state law





The teacher training came after the school reprimanded a fourth-grade teacher over a book on anti-racism in her class. Photograph: Alamy Stock Photo

Dani Anguiano in Los Angeles

@dani_anguiano
Fri 15 Oct 2021 13.27 AEDT
Last modified on Fri 15 Oct 2021 13.52 AEDT

A Texas school district official told educators if they kept books about the Holocaust in their classrooms, they would have to also offer “opposing” viewpoints in order to comply with a new state law
.
In an audio clip obtained by NBC News, Gina Peddy, the executive director of curriculum and instruction for Carroll independent school district in Southlake, offered the guidance to teachers during a training on which books teachers can keep in classroom libraries.









						Texas school official says classrooms with books on Holocaust must offer ‘opposing’ views
					

In recording obtained by NBC News, curriculum director describes ‘political mess’ after passage of state law




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## basilio (15 October 2021)

There is already an example of a  US school Principal wanting to keep an open mind on the authenticty of the Holocaust









						School principal fired for saying 'I can't say the Holocaust is a factual event'
					

William Latson fired for misconduct after writing he was ‘not in a position … as a district employee’ to say the Holocaust happened




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Knobby22 (15 October 2021)

2% of Americans believe that the world is flat. I reckon the percentage would be higher in Texas.

So I suppose in Texas now if a teacher has a globe of the world you will also have to have a flat world in the classroom based on the theory of the earth circled by the sun on a turtle on which elephants stand which, when they move, cause earthquakes.


----------



## wayneL (15 October 2021)

Knobby22 said:


> 2% of Americans believe that the world is flat. I reckon the percentage would be higher in Texas.
> 
> So I suppose in Texas now if a teacher has a globe of the world you will also have to have a flat world in the classroom based on latest theory of the earth circled by the sun on a turtle on which elephants stand which, when they move, cause earthquakes.
> 
> View attachment 131580



Yeah but look at how many Victorians are of the #IStandWithMaoTseDan crowd


----------



## moXJO (15 October 2021)

Is this law so that one ideology can't be pushed in schools?
And so students form free opinions?

And did a few teachers find loopholes to push agendas?

I don't trust the Guardian as a news source.


----------



## wayneL (21 October 2021)

The CCP have noticed something about our "Baizuo"...


----------



## wayneL (16 March 2022)

We don't have a thread on the clown world as such, so this is the only place I could think of to put this:


----------



## moXJO (16 March 2022)

wayneL said:


> We don't have a thread on the clown world as such, so this is the only place I could think of to put this:




Is there anything white dudes can't do.
Yet another brochievement.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (17 March 2022)

wayneL said:


> We don't have a thread on the clown world as such, so this is the only place I could think of to put this:




As St. Patrick once so eloquently said : Jayzus. 

gg


----------



## wayneL (23 March 2022)

"Woman"... Je ne said quoi.

Biden's SCOTUS candidate btw (and it's been a real sh¹tshow)


----------



## sptrawler (29 March 2022)

Interesting one for the 'woke' sector, who was wrong? Will Smith for slapping Chris Rock, or Chris Rock for publicly 'appearance' shaming Will Smith's wife over her medical condition?









						'Unacceptable and inexcusable': Will Smith says sorry to Chris Rock for on-stage slap
					

Actor Will Smith apologises to Chris Rock and Oscars viewers a day after slapping the comedian on stage at the Academy Awards.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## moXJO (29 March 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Interesting one for the 'woke' sector, who was wrong? Will Smith for slapping Chris Rock, or Chris Rock for publicly 'appearance' shaming Will Smith's wife over her medical condition?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The woke mob didn't know what to do. Two black men, one commenting on a black woman, the other dealing out slaps. 

In other news:

*Will Smith's Slap Stops the Ukraine War!!!*

War has ended on the front pages of news sites everywhere. Casual readers relieved.


----------



## SirRumpole (29 March 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Interesting one for the 'woke' sector, who was wrong? Will Smith for slapping Chris Rock, or Chris Rock for publicly 'appearance' shaming Will Smith's wife over her medical condition?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Rock was wrong for making a tasteless joke about another man's wife , and Smith was wrong for physically responding (in front of witnesses anyway ).


----------



## PZ99 (29 March 2022)

Rock got what he deserved


----------



## moXJO (29 March 2022)

PZ99 said:


> Rock got what he deserved



It's funny how polarising it is.
Definitely strong views one way or the other.


----------



## IFocus (29 March 2022)

Who cares, two multi millionaires exchanging insults.


----------



## wayneL (29 March 2022)

More interesting was Smith's initial, and subsequent responses.

As for me, lovely to watch Hollywood in self destruct.


----------



## sptrawler (29 March 2022)

So it would appear, one it doesnt matter because they are both wealthy.
Two it doesnt matter because the shaming wasnt about LBG..., it was only about someones hair loss.
Three when someone insults your wife, just suck it up.
Interesting that not agreeing with gay marriage on religious grounds, causes huge anger, yet someone taking the pizz out of your wifes hair loss is o.k
Kind of shows where we are heading, doesnt bode well for women. IMO


----------



## moXJO (30 March 2022)

sptrawler said:


> So it would appear, one it doesnt matter because they are both wealthy.
> Two it doesnt matter because the shaming wasnt about LBG..., it was only about someones hair loss.
> Three when someone insults your wife, just suck it up.
> Interesting that not agreeing with gay marriage on religious grounds, causes huge anger, yet someone taking the pizz out of your wifes hair loss is o.k
> Kind of shows where we are heading, doesnt bode well for women. IMO



Yanks love to "Roast". Which is basically just sanctioned bullying. And they really let loose when they do it. If you don't just sit there and take it you're the "asshole".


----------



## sptrawler (1 April 2022)

Here is someone not being PC, doesn't he know you can't say these things anymore, the World has moved on from naming and shaming. Now it is time for those fortunate to have job, to just count their blessings and leave those less fortunate alone. 



			https://www.theaustralian.com.au/breaking-news/dole-bludgers-outrageous-resumes-exposed-by-radio-host-ben-fordham/news-story/502997733612d728b3d544ae72e8225e


----------



## sptrawler (9 April 2022)

Well it is good that the politically correct brigade are starting to develop guide lines, as to what is and isn't acceptable behaviour, Will Smith gets a 10 year ban for slapping Chris Rock.
Chris Rock gets nothing for appearance shaming Smith's wife, interesting outcome.
Next problem I guess is to define was is acceptable when joking about someone's appearance, is it o.k to joke about their hairloss, but not o.k to joke about their weight?
Does it depend on the audience you are in front of, as to when it is acceptable to take the pizz out of someone's wife?
Interesting times. 
https://deadline.com/2022/04/will-smith-punishment-oscar-ban-chris-rock-slap-ampas-1234997251/


----------



## SirRumpole (9 April 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Well it is good that the politically correct brigade are starting to develop guide lines, as to what is and isn't acceptable behaviour, Will Smith gets a 10 year ban for slapping Chris Rock.
> Chris Rock gets nothing for appearance shaming Smith's wife, interesting outcome.
> Next problem I guess is to define was is acceptable when joking about someone's appearance, is it o.k to joke about their hairloss, but not o.k to joke about their weight?
> https://deadline.com/2022/04/will-smith-punishment-oscar-ban-chris-rock-slap-ampas-1234997251/




Black wives don't matter ?


----------



## sptrawler (9 April 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> Black wives don't matter ?



Yes they are starting to trip over themselves with their indignation, when they start demanding that you follow their rules, but they have no idea what their rules are.
Where are the righteous ones, who want to defend those being vilified? Isn't that exactly what Smith was doing? 
Can someone post up a media article that says Smith's wife was insulted due to her physical appearance and Chris Rock should be punished, I'm sure if he had made a joke about someone being homosexual the outcome would have been different.


----------



## SirRumpole (9 April 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Yes they are starting to trip over themselves with their indignation, when they start demanding that you follow their rules, but they have no idea what their rules are.
> Where are the righteous ones, who want to defend those being vilified? Isn't that exactly what Smith was doing?
> Can someone post up a media article that says Smith's wife was insulted due to her physical appearance and Chris Rock should be punished, I'm sure if he had made a joke about someone being homosexual the outcome would have been different.




It was obviously a heat of the moment action by Smith. I think if he had given Rock a verbal dressing down it may have been more effective.

Nothing was said about Rock apologising. Personally I don't blame Smith for defending his wife, Rock was laughing after he was slapped.

But who cares really, it's a bunch of spoiled brats hogging the limelight yet gain.


----------



## sptrawler (9 April 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> It was obviously a heat of the moment action by Smith. I think if he had given Rock a verbal dressing down it may have been more effective.
> 
> Nothing was said about Rock apologising. Personally I don't blame Smith for defending his wife, Rock was laughing after he was slapped.
> 
> But who cares really, it's a bunch of spoiled brats hogging the limelight yet gain.



It is just a spoiled bunch of brats, but it would have been hilarious if for example one of the Academies Board of Governors wives had a thyroid induced weight problem and Chris Rock said George Lucas was going to use her in an upcoming Starwars movie as Jabba the hutt.
I wonder if he would have given out the same ruling?
Or if the media would have the same slant on the incident if he said Mel Gibson was going to employ homosexuals in a religious movie about the afterlife and a person took offence?
Like you said Rumpy, obviously black wives don't matter.


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## PZ99 (3 May 2022)

These people are taking the peace mate...



Perrottet government ministers were advised not to use the word “mate”, ban drinking alcohol in the office and not to yell at staff. 

The University of Washington information technology department released an “inclusive language guide” that lists a number of “problematic words” that are “racist,” “sexist,” “ageist,” or “homophobic,”

According to the guide, words such as 
“grandfather,” 
“housekeeping,”
 “minority,” 
“ninja,” and 
“lame” are considered “problematic words.”

A Lake Superior State University in Michigan has also compiled a list of banished words to “uphold, protect, and support excellence in language”.

Banned phrases include,
 “wait, what?”,
 “no worries”,
 “at the end of the day”, 
“asking for a friend” and 
“you’re on mute.”



			https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/dominic-perrottet-ministers-unhappy-with-new-pc-office-advice/news-story/926835959ecc81d3e1ab61a86e6fce8c


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## SirRumpole (3 May 2022)

PZ99 said:


> These people are taking the peace mate...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




"Manhole cover" used to be problematic in my day.


----------



## cynic (3 May 2022)

PZ99 said:


> These people are taking the peace mate...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Too right Mate! 

But no worries, because at the end of the day, even if you happen to be in the minority (or only asking for a friend), it doesn't take ninja housekeeping skills to keep the lame grandfather's house in order.

Wait, what? Am I on mute?!!!


----------



## frugal.rock (13 July 2022)

Are we still allowed to "drop the kids off at the pool"?


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## basilio (13 July 2022)

*Every girl is "bi".  You just have to figure out if its polar or sexual..*

So how bad is this joke ? What could be the ramifications of such a quip ? How far has political correctness gone ? Is re quoting this joke the last  straw ?

Check the real life consequences of what happens when a news reporter  at the  Washington Post re tweets this joke.


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## wayneL (13 July 2022)

basilio said:


> *Every girl is "bi".  You just have to figure out if its polar or sexual..*
> 
> So how bad is this joke ? What could be the ramifications of such a quip ? How far has political correctness gone ? Is re quoting this joke the last  straw ?
> 
> Check the real life consequences of what happens when a news reporter  at the  Washington Post re tweets this joke.




It only serves to show that comedy is dead, laughter is abolished.


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## sptrawler (25 July 2022)

Well obviously the LBJQRSTU has gone too far and there is some push back, why should people have to wear something that states they agree with something, if they don't?
Why not offer the players gay or not gay shirts, then it is equality why do people who are comfortably hetrosexual have to wear something they may not be comfortable with? It is all coming to a head which is great IMO.
How would it be portrayed if they were made to wear a shirt I'm hetrosexual and I'm happy?
Good on the guys refusing IMO, that isn't about inclusiveness, it's about forced conscription IMO.
The dude in the red bandanna will be gagging, whats his name fitsup somewhere, but he has a weird take on most things IMO. 😂








						Seven Manly players to boycott NRL match over pride jersey
					

Manly officials held emergency talks on Monday night before seven of their players said they would boycott Thursday’s game against the Roosters over the club’s pride jersey.




					www.smh.com.au
				




Seven Manly players will boycott this Thursday night’s clash against the Roosters after being blindsided by the club’s decision to wear a pride jersey as the Sea Eagles’ season descended into chaos.
Sources with knowledge of discussions told the _Herald_ that Manly coach Des Hasler had told the players he understood the difficult position the players have been put in as a result of the club not consulting them about the jersey, and will support their decision not to play.


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## moXJO (25 July 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Well obviously the LBJQRSTU has gone too far and there is some push back, why should people have to wear something that states they agree with something, if they don't?
> Why not offer the players gay or not gay shirts, then it is equality why do people who are comfortably hetrosexual have to wear something they may not be comfortable with? It is all coming to a head which is great IMO.
> How would it be portrayed if they were made to wear a shirt I'm hetrosexual and I'm happy?
> Good on the guys refusing IMO, that isn't about inclusiveness, it's about forced conscription IMO. The dude in the red bandanna will be gagging. 😂
> ...



It could actually ruin their season. Talk about stupid for the sake of a token gesture. They should fire the idiots that didn't consult with players.


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## sptrawler (25 July 2022)

moXJO said:


> It could actually ruin their season. Talk about stupid for the sake of a token gesture. They should fire the idiots that didn't consult with players.



Yes accepting and understanding, is starting to bridge over to forced recruitment, it is moving from accepting homosexuality to making it the dominant preference.
Which is fine, if the end game is reducing the population of the planet, but as with most things like climate change, eventually nature takes over. 😂
Obviously the vaccine mandates, were taken as a license to force anything, just push it down the muppets throats.🤣


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## wayneL (25 July 2022)

There wouldn't be a hope in Hades I'd wear that jersey, and it ain't anything to do with acceptance or not of LBGTSJTCSHHDXHHFEHHFDDGVVDETJPHGRVJJ.

SP said it all.


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## sptrawler (25 July 2022)

wayneL said:


> There wouldn't be a hope in Hades I'd wear that jersey, and it ain't anything to do with acceptance or not of LBGTSJTCSHHDXHHFEHHFDDGVVDETJPHGRVJJ.
> 
> SP said it all.



Look I don't have an issue with anyone, live and let live, just leave me alone is my mantra. But it is all becoming counter productive, it is now becoming our way or the highway, which is just going to rebuild the walls they have taken 40 years to break down IMO.
So be it, like I said nature will have its way, one way or another.


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## wayneL (25 July 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Look I don't have an issue with anyone, live and let live, just leave me alone is my mantra. But it is all becoming counter productive, it is now becoming our way or the highway, which is just going to rebuild the walls they have taken 40 years to break down IMO.
> So be it, like I said nature will have its way, one way or another.



Agreed. Intersectionality is blowing up all the goodwill that has been built over those decades.

Intentional?

I'm suspicious.


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## sptrawler (25 July 2022)

wayneL said:


> Agreed. Intersectionality is blowing up all the goodwill that has been built over those decades.
> 
> Intentional?
> 
> I'm suspicious.



Well the problem with it IMO is, the lines are becoming blurred and there are lines, men and women aren't the same, they can't be judged on all the same metrics.
But the narrative is making it that they are and IMO that isn't fair, but that is the way it is being pushed, so hey let it run its course, eventually the lines will be re drawn back to fairness, but many young females are going to suffer an injustice along the journey IMO.


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## sptrawler (25 July 2022)

Looks like the same issues are surfacing in the U.K.








						Rugby Australia holds firm on transgender inclusion
					

Rugby Australia is holding firm on its transgender participation policy despite a backflip in England.




					www.smh.com.au
				




Rugby Australia will continue to allow transgender athletes to play in community competitions despite a looming vote to ban such athletes in English rugby.

The RA board last reviewed the organisation’s policy in May and chief executive Andy Marinos said the RFU’s decision had not changed Australia’s stance.
Transgender athletes would continue to be welcomed in rugby on a case-by-case basis, provided they gained a “gender identity dispensation” from RA and the relevant state and local union.
“We are aligned with World Rugby on the professional side of the game, but we decided to adopt our own community guidelines when it came to permitting transgender participants to play the game,” Marinos said.

“We have had transgender players playing in our competitions in the past and we will continue to manage that process through our community game at the amateur level.”
The stance puts RA at odds with World Rugby and potentially the RFU, the richest and largest national union. It announced its new gender participation policy on Friday and will take a vote on whether to adopt it this Friday.
The policy proposes scrapping the union’s current case-by-case approach, banning all transgender women from female competition and permitting transgender men to play in male competitions, until “new science is available”.

In a statement, the RFU said it used an 18-month-long review and a survey that attracted more than 11,000 responses, as well as scientific evidence and advice from other sporting bodies to formulate its new position.
“This science provides the basis of the recommendation that the inclusion of trans people assigned male at birth in female contact rugby cannot be balanced against considerations of safety and fairness,” the organisation said.

“The recommendation is that until such time as new science is available, a precautionary approach is appropriate to ensure fair competition and safety of all competitors.”


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## moXJO (25 July 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Yes accepting and understanding, is starting to bridge over to forced recruitment, it is moving from accepting homosexuality to making it the dominant preference.
> Which is fine, if the end game is reducing the population of the planet, but as with most things like climate change, eventually nature takes over. 😂
> Obviously the vaccine mandates, were taken as a license to force anything, just push it down the muppets throats.🤣



Surely the must have known the islander boys and Muslims would have been up in arms. Seems like it could have been handled a lot better. There's no excuses to not see this become a hot divisive topic.


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## SirRumpole (26 July 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Look I don't have an issue with anyone, live and let live, just leave me alone is my mantra. But it is all becoming counter productive, it is now becoming our way or the highway, which is just going to rebuild the walls they have taken 40 years to break down IMO.
> So be it, like I said nature will have its way, one way or another.




Turning people from players of sport into crusaders for a cause without their consent is an infringement of their rights to free speech (which includes the right to remain silent ) in my view.

Damn stupid of the Rugby authorities. Will they require players to attend the Mardi Gras in the future ? 

Yes, political correctness has gone too far in this case.


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## moXJO (26 July 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> Turning people from players of sport into crusaders for a cause without their consent is an infringement of their rights to free speech (which includes the right to remain silent ) in my view.
> 
> Damn stupid of the Rugby authorities. Will they require players to attend the Mardi Gras in the future ?
> 
> Yes, political correctness has gone too far in this case.



The irony is that I'm sure transgender were banned from women's football.

But token efforts. Bit lit the flogs who put the Ukraine flag in their profile and do nothing else.


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## SirRumpole (26 July 2022)

moXJO said:


> The irony is that I'm sure transgender were banned from women's football.
> 
> But token efforts. Bit lit the flogs who put the Ukraine flag in their profile and do nothing else.




I wonder if the Manly Board members are walking around the streets wearing coats of many colours.


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## PZ99 (26 July 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> I wonder if the Manly Board members are walking around the streets wearing coats of many colours.



They wouldn't be manly if they did


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## macca (26 July 2022)

It seems to me that those who ask for freedom, tolerance and acceptance of their lifestyle show very little tolerance and acceptance of others who may choose a different path.


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## Smurf1976 (27 July 2022)

macca said:


> It seems to me that those who ask for freedom, tolerance and acceptance of their lifestyle show very little tolerance and acceptance of others who may choose a different path.



With any group, movement or cause don't assume that those who speak are representing the views of the entire group or even most of it.

Of those I know personally who fit into the group referred to, well I haven't asked them about this case specifically but none are keen on this sort of approach in general. They're far more aligned to the broad concept of personal freedom so long as everyone's consenting and it's not harming others. That's what they originally wanted and nothing more, actual equality.

Same goes for other things. Don't assume everyone who broadly supports protection of the natural environment agrees with the big name organisations associated with the cause. Suffice to say I'm _very_ sure there's considerable dissent there over certain issues.

Same with things like unions. There are good ones that do take a reasonable view and do work for the members' best interests yes but, thing is, those generally aren't the unions you'll hear much of in the news. For the others though, well there are certainly some who don't have majority support from those they claim to represent.

Same in any context. Those who speak might be representing the rest, they might be pushing their own agenda, or worst case they're deliberately aiming to harm those they claim to represent by making them seem unreasonable.


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## Dona Ferentes (28 July 2022)

_Had a giggle at this; and some ammo for whatever viewpoint held, said the joker to the thief. I love the smell of self-flagellation in the morning._

I was wrong about Trump voters​_Trump voters were not wrong about their betrayal by condescending American elites. Commentators should remember that in 2024._

*Bret Stephens *Contributor NYT.

The worst line I ever wrote as a pundit — yes, I know, it’s a crowded field — was the first line I ever wrote about the man who would become the 45th president: “If by now you don’t find Donald Trump appalling, you’re appalling.”
This opening salvo, from August 2015, was the first in what would become dozens of columns denouncing Trump as a uniqu threat to American life,  democratic ideals and the world itself. I regret almost nothing of what I said about the man and his close minions. But the broad swipe at his voters caricatured them and blinkered me.
It also probably did more to help than hinder Trump’s candidacy. Telling voters they are moral ignoramuses is a bad way of getting them to change their minds.

What were they seeing that I wasn’t?
That ought to have been the first question to ask myself. When I looked at Trump, I saw a bigoted blowhard making one ignorant argument after another. What Trump’s supporters saw was a candidate whose entire being was a proudly raised middle finger at a self-satisfied elite that had produced a failing status quo.

I was blind to this. Although I had spent the years of Barack Obama’s presidency denouncing his policies, my objections were more abstract than personal. I belonged to a social class that my friend Peggy Noonan called “the protected”. My family lived in a safe and pleasant neighbourhood. Our kids went to an excellent public school. I was well paid, fully insured, insulated against life’s harsh edges.
Trump’s appeal, according to Noonan, was largely to people she called “the unprotected”. Their neighbourhoods weren’t so safe and pleasant. Their schools weren’t so excellent. Their livelihoods weren’t so secure. Their experience of America was often one of cultural and economic decline, sometimes felt in the most personal of ways.
It was an experience compounded by the insult of being treated as losers and racists – clinging, in Obama’s notorious 2008 phrase, to “guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren’t like them”.

No wonder they were angry.
Anger can take dumb or dangerous turns, and with Trump they often took both. But that didn’t mean the anger was unfounded or illegitimate, or that it was aimed at the wrong target.
Trump voters had a powerful case to make that they had been thrice betrayed by the nation’s elites. First, after 9/11, when they had borne much of the brunt of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, only to see Washington fumble and then abandon the efforts. Second, after the financial crisis of 2008, when so many were being laid off, even as the financial class was being bailed out. Third, in the post-crisis recovery, in which years of ultralow interest rates were a bonanza for those with investable assets and brutal for those without.

Oh, and then came the great American cultural revolution of the 2010s, in which traditional practices and beliefs — regarding same-sex marriage, sex-segregated bathrooms, personal pronouns, meritocratic ideals, race-blind rules, reverence for patriotic symbols, the rules of romance, the presumption of innocence and the distinction between equality of opportunity and outcome – became, more and more, not just passe, but taboo.

It’s one thing for social mores to evolve over time, aided by respect for differences of opinion. It’s another for them to be abruptly imposed by one side on another, with little democratic input but a great deal of moral bullying.

This was the climate in which Trump’s campaign flourished. I could have thought a little harder about the fact that, in my dripping condescension toward his supporters, I was also confirming their suspicions about people like me — people who talked a good game about the virtues of empathy but practice it only selectively; people unscathed by the country’s problems yet unembarrassed to propound solutions.
I also could have given Trump voters more credit for nuance.
For every in-your-face MAGA warrior there were plenty of ambivalent Trump supporters, doubtful of his ability and dismayed by his manner, who were willing to take their chances on him because he had the nerve to defy deeply flawed conventional pieties.

Nor were they impressed by Trump critics who had their own penchant for hypocrisy and outright slander. To this day, precious few anti-Trumpers have been honest with themselves about the elaborate hoax – there’s just no other word for it – that was the Steele dossier and all the bogus allegations, credulously parroted in the mainstream media, that flowed from it.

A final question for myself: Would I be wrong to lambaste Trump’s current supporters, the ones who want him back in the White House despite his refusal to accept his electoral defeat and the historic outrage of January 6, 2021?
Morally speaking, no. It’s one thing to take a gamble on a candidate who promises a break with business as usual. It’s another to do that with an ex-president with a record of trying to break the republic itself.
But I would also approach these voters in a much different spirit than I did the last time. “A drop of honey catches more flies than a gallon of gall,” Abraham Lincoln noted early in his political career. “If you would win a man to your cause, first convince him that you are his sincere friend.” Words to live by, particularly for those of us in the business of persuasion.


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## SirRumpole (28 July 2022)

Some people arriving from other countries apparently expect the rest of us to conform to them.









						These students have been excluded from school because of their hairstyle
					

Two students of African heritage are barred from an independent regional Victorian high school for not tying up their braided hair, with their mother saying she will report the school to the Australian Human Rights Commission.




					www.abc.net.au


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## PZ99 (28 July 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> Some people arriving from other countries apparently expect the rest of us to conform to them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



To be fair it's a pretty dumb rule. They are suspended even from online schoolwork simply for not tying up their hair? I think that's pathetic. It's not 1950. It reminds me of the BS I was indoctrinated with when I went to school and took years to learn to it was all BS.


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## moXJO (29 July 2022)

Dona Ferentes said:


> _Had a giggle at this; and some ammo for whatever viewpoint held, said the joker to the thief. I love the smell of self-flagellation in the morning._
> 
> I was wrong about Trump voters​_Trump voters were not wrong about their betrayal by condescending American elites. Commentators should remember that in 2024._
> 
> ...



Talk about slow. Anti Trumpers are playing catch-up while the rest of us have moved on.
Trump was a political outlier. The only shtbag that could withstand the even bigger shtbags in US politics. 

Unfortunately the moment and momentum was lost and its pointless putting him in for another term.


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## sptrawler (30 July 2022)

Didn't know where to put this one, but here is as good as any, another stolen generation.









						‘I was told that if I loved him, I would give him up’: Why Lisa is still looking for answers
					

King Edward Memorial Hospital removes an online apology to mothers and children involved in forced adoption after complaints it was offensive and untruthful, as calls for redress grow.




					www.abc.net.au


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## wayneL (17 August 2022)

The destruction of English grammar. When this lunacy ends I'm popping a bottle of Dom.

As if they/them isn't stupid enough, the writer can't seem to refer to Miller in the singular or plural.  










						Ezra Miller issues apology, says they suffer 'complex mental health issues'
					

Actor Ezra Miller issues a statement apologising for their behaviour and promising to do "the necessary work" to recover.




					www.abc.net.au


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## Knobby22 (17 August 2022)

wayneL said:


> The destruction of English grammar. When this lunacy ends I'm popping a bottle of Dom.
> 
> As if they/them isn't stupid enough, the writer can't seem to refer to Miller in the singular or plural.
> 
> ...



Yea, grammatically their is OK but actually it doesn't work. Need another word like Ms was for not saying whether a female is married or not.
Non binary is becoming common.


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## wayneL (17 August 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> Yea, grammatically their is OK but actually it doesn't work. Need another word like Ms was for not saying whether a female is married or not.
> Non binary is becoming common.



There is nothing non binary about XX and XY.


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## Knobby22 (17 August 2022)

wayneL said:


> There is nothing non binary about XX and XY.



True, but what do you do? Free country.


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## Knobby22 (17 August 2022)

Judith: Why do you want to be Loretta, Stan?
Stan:   I want to have babies.
Reg:    You want to have babies?!?!?!
Stan:   It's every man's right to have babies if he wants them.
Reg:    But you can't have babies.
Stan:   Don't you oppress me.
Reg:    I'm not oppressing you, Stan -- you haven't got a womb.  Where's the
        fetus going to gestate?  You going to keep it in a box?
(Stan starts crying.)
Judith:  Here!  I've got an idea.  Suppose you agree that he can't actually
         have babies, not having a womb, which is nobody's fault, not even the
         Romans', but that he can have the *right* to have babies.
Francis: Good idea, Judith.  We shall fight the oppressors for your right to
         have babies, brother.  Sister, sorry.
Reg:     (pissed)  What's the *point*?
Francis:  What?
Reg:      What's the point of fighting for his right to have babies, when he
          can't have babies?
Francis:  It is symbolic of our struggle against oppression.
Reg:      It's symbolic of his struggle against reality.


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## SirRumpole (17 August 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> Judith: Why do you want to be Loretta, Stan?
> Stan:   I want to have babies.
> Reg:    You want to have babies?!?!?!
> Stan:   It's every man's right to have babies if he wants them.
> ...




They will all be produced in a test tube soon anyway. Anyone can have one, for a price.


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## wayneL (17 August 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> True, but what do you do? Free country.



Sure. I can identify as the king of Atlantis and insist my pronouns are his majesty/your majesty. 

However, as much as I am free to suffer from such a delusion, it is unlikely that our national broadcaster would indulge me. 

Most egregiously, the use of they them there, refer to more than one person. At once it is both ridiculous  for a single person, and creates grammatical stumbling blocks as seen in the article.

Equally, people should be perfectly free to push back on such absurdities, without the threat of being labelled as hate speech.


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## Knobby22 (17 August 2022)

wayneL said:


> Sure. I can identify as the king of Atlantis and insist my pronouns are his majesty/your majesty.
> 
> However, as much as I am free to suffer from such a delusion, it is unlikely that our national broadcaster would indulge me.
> 
> ...



But is that now oppression? It's a fine line.

In your case they are imagining to be the King of Atlantis which is obviously not true but if they are actually non binary etc. then who are we to say "no your not!"


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## wayneL (17 August 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> But is that now oppression? It's a fine line.
> 
> In your case they are imagining to be the King of Atlantis which is obviously not true but if they are actually non binary etc. then who are we to say "no your not!"



Okay, but let us first define non-binary.

All kicked off my thoughts for discussion... Non-binary would be a human neither biologically male or female, or a human which is chromosomally (sp?) male or female, but which exhibits the genitalia of the opposite sex.

In the first instance I would posit that this is non-existent and in the second instance that it is extraordinarily rare.

This is not to say that there aren't very feminine males or very masculine females. We all know people like that.

However they are still biologically male or female.

Ultimately I think we have to figure out whether we are doing these people a favour. Are we doing them a kindness by indulging them,  or are we cementing what is actual fact a mental illness. (And no judgement there I have in down that chasm in my own way).

Additionally, we need to think about whether it is healthy for us to villainize people who want to push back on that.

Is it considered oppression for us to try to help people who are suffering from schizophrenia, depression, bipolar disorder etc etc?

Should we indulge the paranoia of a schizophrenic? Or should we, to the best of our ability, try to ameliorate that condition for the person's benefit?

Which brings me back to Ezra. Clearly he is a person suffering from some degree of mental illness.

What good would it do him to pander to such condition for the sake of some ridiculous academic gender ideology which has no basis in biology?


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## SirRumpole (24 September 2022)

One example of how people want to bury the truth  for the sake of political correctness.









						Indigenous activists condemn New York Times obituary of Uncle Jack Charles as offensive
					

An Aboriginal activist and former police officer slams the New York Times obituary of Uncle Jack Charles for highlighting his criminal history and drug use.




					www.abc.net.au
				




Also interesting that some of that 'mob' didn't mind bagging the Queen for events that happened hundreds of years before she was born, but it was quite ok to cover up the actual past of one of their alleged heroes.


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## Dona Ferentes (20 November 2022)

evidently the proto-industrialists of the Iron Age have to bend the knee?



> "_We have been taught many lessons from Europeans and the Western world. I am European. For what we have been doing for 3,000 years around the world, we should be apologising for the next 3,000 years before giving moral lessons_."



from the self-loathing boss of FIFA, defending the indefensible









						Infantino accuses West of 'hypocrisy' in speech
					

Fifa president Gianni Infantino accuses the West of "hypocrisy" in its reporting about Qatar's human rights record on the eve of the World Cup.




					www.bbc.com


----------

