# Shooters in national parks



## moXJO (4 September 2009)

> A political alliance between the Upper House Shooters and the Labor Government, which Premier Nathan Rees needs to pass laws, is now officially over.
> 
> And the deal-breaker is Government's refusal to support a Shooters' Bill to let hunters shoot in national parks.
> 
> "Whatever goodwill was there is now gone," Mr Brown said.




I'm not up to speed on the bill, but this seems like a stupid idea. Who wants to walk around the national park when there are bullets flying? All I can say is good luck fighting the greens on this.


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## Happy (4 September 2009)

moXJO said:


> I'm not up to speed on the bill, but this seems like a stupid idea. Who wants to walk around the national park when there are bullets flying? All I can say is good luck fighting the greens on this.




But added risk migh be attractive for some thrill seaking souls.

Imagine compensation should somebody survive unfortunate body contact with stray bullet.


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## Prospector (4 September 2009)

Hey, I agree with the Government on this one. 

Bloody shooters......what type of moron can get satisfaction from blowing the brains out of an innocent and defenceless creature in a National Park.


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## Smurf1976 (4 September 2009)

Isn't the entire purpose of a National Park to protect and conserve the area? 

You can't log a National Park. You can't flood it with a dam (well, OK it's been done before but wouldn't likely happen in the future). You can't open cut mine it either. So surely shooting, which is less useful than any of those and likely more toxic (lead), ought not be allowed either.

For once I'll have to agree with the Greens on this one. If we're going to allow shooting then might as well not have National Parks in the first place.


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## Garpal Gumnut (4 September 2009)

Shooters and fishermen and women have rights too.

You city bound people should not comment on issues beyond basket weaving.

gg


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## GumbyLearner (4 September 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Shooters and fishermen and women have rights too.
> 
> You city bound people should not comment on issues beyond basket weaving.
> 
> gg




And Aboriginals. 

Under the Flora & Fauna legislation species are to be protected, but the indigenous also have the right to hunt native species for tucker.

I'm sure the possums, koalas, wallabies and frogs would appreciate help in getting rid of ferals and cane toads though.

Open-slather hunting? I don't know!


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## Garpal Gumnut (4 September 2009)

GumbyLearner said:


> And Aboriginals.
> 
> Under the Flora & Fauna legislation species are to be protected, but the indigenous also have the right to hunt native species for tucker.
> 
> ...




Mate, indigenous people have got more in common with shooters and fisherpeople than all the basket weavers in Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide.

They often are kin.

Work together.

Play together.

The basket weavers are the problem not the answer.

gg


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## knocker (4 September 2009)

GumbyLearner said:


> And Aboriginals.
> 
> Under the Flora & Fauna legislation species are to be protected, but the indigenous also have the right to hunt native species for tucker.
> 
> ...




Sounds good. Get rid of the ferals and maybe a few stray bullets might take out some cans of VB on the way lol


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## Uncle Barry (4 September 2009)

Good evening dumb and stupid PEOPLE.

I read this and thought, what stupid people the people that posted before me, 
the dills that will flap their jaws BOFORE knowing what they are even talking about !

I honestly thought my fellow Australia would have had far more brains than to do such a stupid thing.

Now before the dumb and stupid attack me, reread the first post which you all can running in for with your un eductated and dumb comments,

"*I'm not up to speed on the bill*, but this seems like a stupid idea"

NOT UP TO SPEED ....... ??????
AND it would appear so are the other posters before me.

Sick, maybe sad what people will write without knowing what the bl...dy hell they are even writing about ot the facts of the situation 
UB


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## GumbyLearner (4 September 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Mate, indigenous people have got more in common with shooters and fisherpeople than all the basket weavers in Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide.
> 
> They often are kin.
> 
> ...




Yes, brings back memories of Les Hiddins. Certainly no narrow-minded basket weaver.

1 of 3


2 of 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBkodNIx4nY&feature=related

3 of 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrD5nXEgABA&feature=related


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## knocker (4 September 2009)

Uncle Barry said:


> Good evening dumb and stupid PEOPLE.
> 
> I read this and thought, what stupid people the people that posted before me,
> the dills that will flap their jaws BOFORE knowing what they are even talking about !
> ...




Lighten up Bazza. Just having a bit of fun.


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## GumbyLearner (4 September 2009)

Uncle Barry said:


> Good evening dumb and stupid PEOPLE.
> 
> I read this and thought, what stupid people the people that posted before me,
> the dills that will flap their jaws BOFORE knowing what they are even talking about !
> ...




Make feral cats and dogs endangered species not native australian species. Ban ownership of cats within 100 kms of a National Park. Now that would be a progressive and sensible law.


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## Uncle Barry (4 September 2009)

_[B]what type of moron can get satisfaction from blowing the brains out of an innocent and defenceless[/B]_

TOTAL B/S !
I would love the day, to see you standing there with sh...running down the back of your legs

WITH a 100kg boar deciding if he wants to eat you, just standing there grinding his teeth to make sure they are well sharpened for the job.

TOO much b/s from people who DON'T have a clue on Earth what they are talking about... AGAIN !
UB
ps, where do you think pigs grown and breed, yep, right there in a so called National Park.


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## GumbyLearner (4 September 2009)

Uncle Barry said:


> _[B]what type of moron can get satisfaction from blowing the brains out of an innocent and defenceless[/B]_
> 
> TOTAL B/S !
> I would love the day, to see you standing there with sh...running down the back of your legs
> ...




defenceless? Are you refering to the Sugar-Gliders or the feral cats that feast on them?


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## Garpal Gumnut (4 September 2009)

Perhaps we should call this thread 

The poly pipe thread.

gg


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## GumbyLearner (4 September 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Perhaps we should call this thread
> 
> The poly pipe thread.
> 
> gg




Oh GG!

Maybe you're aware of the Human Feral kind up North. Who take their generators and microwave ovens up into the bush to heat up a tasty tofu brunch?

Now that's for a whole different thread!


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## gooner (4 September 2009)

Uncle Barry said:


> _[B]what type of moron can get satisfaction from blowing the brains out of an innocent and defenceless[/B]_
> 
> TOTAL B/S !
> I would love the day, to see you standing there with sh...running down the back of your legs
> ...




Pigs or no pigs, personally when I go bushwalking in the national parks, last thing I want is a stray bullet in my head from some pissed shooter, or even a sober one. :bigun2:

Of course it's a stupid idea. If you want to shoot:rocketwho, do it on your own land. The NPWS can control ferals via poison and controlled shooting if need be.  Most shooters leave the piglets so there are more pigs to come back for later.


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## Judd (4 September 2009)

1.  I have no problems if professional shooters are contracted to reduce ferals in National Parks or wherever these bloody things may breed.  If that involves professional shooters who may be members of the Shooters Party, so be it.

2.  I do object that part of the Bill was to allow the Shooters Party to release, for hunting purposes, animals which are not indigenous to this country.  These dheads, which includes politicians, have not learnt from history that is exactly why we now have fox problems, wild pigs, feral cats and dogs and the like in National Parks.

A few years ago, visited relatives in Canberra.  We went to sight see and ended up at a fire place near a place called (I think) the Cotter Dam.  It was winter and we started to warm ourselves by a fire.  After awhile, we looked down the hill and we saw these feral cats approaching and starting to circle.  They were fcuking ginormous and were not the least bit scared of us.

So yeah, professional shooters can blast the bejesus out them to our and their hearts content.  Just keep amateurs and other introduced vermin out of National Parks.  Because once introduced animals are released in NSW, they don't know that the NSW/VIC border is that side of Tom Groggin.


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## Uncle Barry (4 September 2009)

Red Goon
AGAIN another dill that hasn't a clue what its talking about 
BUT
Flapping its jaws wildly !

_Pigs or no pigs, personally when I go bushwalking in the national parks, last thing I want is a stray bullet in my head from some_

stray bullets.
dill there are no such things, go to a gun shop, if your brave and ask for a packet of stray bullets !

You in your lack of wisdom may not want to know it
but
Victoria has had shooting to control ferals in the NP's for years, sorry to shock you, when you know so very little about the subject and so far no one has found any of your stray bullets, Canada, US, Africa and so the list goes on,  
but
Some Hunters, they have found your bushwalkers smoking funny stuff... guess that doesn't even count nor does it when they come back to the cars /trucks and drive away !!!!!!!!!!!!!

_*The NPWS can control ferals via poison and controlled shooting if need be. *_
They *HAVE NOT YET*......... so where do you get your openly stupid ideas from ?


_*Most shooters leave the piglets so there are more pigs to come back for later. *_Please 
for someone who knows bug...all about the subject your making dumb wild claims !
Where and how many.
AND comrade, why didn't you report this to the MPs and Police ?
Myself, I have not heard of anyone, but thats only over better than 50 years but you who knows nothing, bug....all about the shooting sports know all.

I think not, matey, best you go back to the Party and ask them what you should say, before you look even more foolish
UB

Comrade Goon, best you run off away, bye


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## knocker (4 September 2009)

Feral bush pigs are scary, ( and no I am not referring to overweight females). Escpecially up North they cause real damage to crops and native wildlife alike. They also thrive up there and put a nasty dent in your car if you run over one. Unfortunately a lot of them are infested with nasties so you can not even eat the buggers.

I'm all for getting out the 303 and having a bit of target practice . Done in  the past and its bloody good value.


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## Uncle Barry (4 September 2009)

OH, my God
where do they come from ?

"These dheads, which includes politicians, have not learnt from history that is exactly why we now have fox problems, wild pigs, feral cats and dogs and the like in National Parks"

foxes to pigs........ did the law say ANYTHING about these creatures ?

GO AWAY AND READ a bit before being silly like Comrade Goon


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## auric (4 September 2009)

The idea is sound happens all over the world : NZ USA Canada even in Victoria Australia. 
At present the NP are suppose to eradicate feral species at a cost to the tax payer , if this Bill gets passed, Private Registered Hunters will be allowed to hunt in the National Parks to help conserve our native species from being overrun by introduced species " Pigs Deer Goats Foxes Rabbits etc." this will cost the tax payer zero.
Permits,set areas to hunt and number of hunters can all be used.. so all persons can enjoy our National Parks walkers hikers and hunters.... Become a greeny and shoot a feral animal to save our native animals and over browsed bushland ...


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## Uncle Barry (4 September 2009)

the wild pig is all over Australia, except Tassie and even pigs wouldn't want to live there.

So, lets see what the flapping jaws will say, if we get an out break of Foot and Mouth.
then see the carry on !
UB


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## Judd (4 September 2009)

Uncle Barry said:


> OH, my God
> where do they come from ?
> 
> "These dheads, which includes politicians, have not learnt from history that is exactly why we now have fox problems, wild pigs, feral cats and dogs and the like in National Parks"
> ...




I didn't say it did.  Quote: GO AWAY AND READ a bit before being silly like Comrade Goon. End Quote.


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## GumbyLearner (4 September 2009)

Good to see the community helping to clean up this introduced poisonous ridiculous pest. 

Cane toad roundup at Yamba.


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## Garpal Gumnut (4 September 2009)

Wild pigs can be quite frightening if you don't have a weapon with you.

gg


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## knocker (4 September 2009)

detol works well, just be careful spraying the stuff around.


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## wayneL (4 September 2009)

Can we tone down the name calling in here please. 

Thanks


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## mellifuous (4 September 2009)

knocker said:


> I'm all for getting out the 303 and having a bit of target practice . Done in  the past and its bloody good value.




I would too, if I could find the bolt for my .303, and then find where I hid the ammo, and then get the rifle out of my gun safe, and then clean all the rust off it - maybe by that time, all the pigs would have been done in by most astute and capable shooters than I.


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## mellifuous (4 September 2009)

GumbyLearner said:


> Good to see the community helping to clean up this introduced poisonous ridiculous pest.]




I guess they don't load them up with bungers or string tom thumbs around them anymore? 

When we were kids, a golfing iron was the weapon of choice.


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## GumbyLearner (4 September 2009)

mellifuous said:


> I guess they don't load them up with bungers or string tom thumbs around them anymore?
> 
> When we were kids, a golfing iron was the weapon of choice.




The old man use to issue me with a 7-iron.

Q. Why the did the cane toad cross the road?
A. To see all his flat-mates.


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## Uncle Barry (4 September 2009)

The old man use to issue me with a 7-iron.

Q. Why the did the cane toad cross the road?
A. To see all his flat-mates.


Kind regards,
UB


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## knocker (4 September 2009)

GumbyLearner said:


> The old man use to issue me with a 7-iron.
> 
> Q. Why the did the cane toad cross the road?
> A. To see all his flat-mates.




Roflmao. They making a pleasant popping noise when driven over, pity about the mess though lol


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## Uncle Barry (4 September 2009)

I've told,

over clearner makes them jump for a while
then they stop jumping for some reason ?

Kind regards,
UB
OK to tone it down a bit, the name calling, 
let say, 
a bit of a dill, a bit of a Comrade, a bit stupid.


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## overit (4 September 2009)

Just to lighten the mood a little. This suits the topic well. One of australia's greatest films. 

Watch the RAZORBACK Movie trailer

Classic quote!


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## knocker (4 September 2009)

Uncle Barry said:


> I've told,
> 
> over clearner makes them jump for a while
> then they stop jumping for some reason ?
> ...




oven cleaner will make anything jump lol
detol is a little user freindlier and washes away easier lol I also find they tend to hop out onto the road for some reason ROFLMAO


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## Judd (4 September 2009)

Reason I was going on about introduced species in the Shooters party Bill.

"The Shooters Party has tabled a bill in the NSW Parliament today that could see foreign animals and birds introduced to private land for recreational shooting.

The NSW Game and Feral Animal Control Amendment Bill allows the establishment of private game parks, and permits their operators to introduce bird species that don't already exist in the state."

As birds and other animals do not know that the boundary ends at that fenceline........

So dheads they remain.  By the way, the 303 is so _passe_ try this number instead:

http://www.vigilancerifles.com/505gibbs.html

Ernest had the right idea.


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## gooner (4 September 2009)

Uncle Barry said:


> Red Goon
> AGAIN another dill that hasn't a clue what its talking about
> BUT
> Flapping its jaws wildly !
> ...




No need for personal abuse - it is for discussion. A few factual errors in your post.

I live in Sydney NSW and 15 minutes walk from my house is Lane Cove National Park and adjoining it Boronia Park. Periodically there are signs up about keeping dogs out of these areas as baiting of feral animals is occurring. At times there are also signs up about keeping out between dusk and dawn due to night time shooting. So there is one factual error.

"Some hunters have even deliberately released piglets and young pigs into scrub in rural areas! This has not helped control efforts and pig distribution has increased rapidly since the 1970s." This quote is from the Queensland Government. http://www.epa.qld.gov.au/nature_conservation/wildlife/threats_to_wildlife/pig.html

And as for no accidental shootings (stray bullets) in National Parks, you might want to ask Dick Cheney about that. Another factual error.

If you want to rant, you might like to put a "fiction" tag at the start of the post, to make it clear the content is such.


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## knocker (4 September 2009)

Judd said:


> Reason I was going on about introduced species in the Shooters party Bill.
> 
> "The Shooters Party has tabled a bill in the NSW Parliament today that could see foreign animals and birds introduced to private land for recreational shooting.
> 
> ...





Oh yeah. I want one of those tiger woods, Judge Judd. lol


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## GumbyLearner (4 September 2009)

Judd said:


> The NSW Game and Feral Animal Control Amendment Bill allows the establishment of private game parks, and *permits their operators to introduce bird species that don't already exist in the state.*"
> 
> As birds and other animals do not know that the boundary ends at that fenceline........




I agree Judd.

That sounds like a ****ing stupid idea.


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## Fishbulb (5 September 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Mate, indigenous people have got more in common with shooters and fisherpeople than all the basket weavers in Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide.
> 
> They often are kin.
> 
> ...




I totally agree..and I live in Melb. 

City people simply have no idea whatsoever. Reality is far removed. Take down their infrastructure and they'll wander around like zombies looking for a power outlet for the coffee machine.


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## Trembling Hand (5 September 2009)

Fishbulb said:


> City people simply have no idea whatsoever. Reality is far removed. Take down their infrastructure and they'll wander around like zombies looking for a power outlet for the coffee machine.




Silly generalisation there. 



Garpal Gumnut said:


> Mate, indigenous people have got more in common with shooters and fisherpeople than all the basket weavers in Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide.
> 
> The basket weavers are the problem not the answer.
> 
> gg




GG when was the last time you slummed it in the bush?


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## Fishbulb (5 September 2009)

Silly? Really? Once again I have failed.


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## Julia (5 September 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Shooters and fishermen and women have rights too.
> 
> You city bound people should not comment on issues beyond basket weaving.
> 
> gg



I don't think I've ever known anyone else who can make such an outrageous statement, yet still cause me to fall about with laughter.





Uncle Barry said:


> Good evening dumb and stupid PEOPLE.
> 
> I read this and thought, what stupid people the people that posted before me,
> the dills that will flap their jaws BOFORE knowing what they are even talking about !
> ...






Uncle Barry said:


> OH, my God
> where do they come from ?
> 
> "These dheads, which includes politicians, have not learnt from history that is exactly why we now have fox problems, wild pigs, feral cats and dogs and the like in National Parks"
> ...



Uncle Barry, I wonder why you can't disagree with people without being insulting and plain rude?

Maybe expressing your disagreement and then explaining more clearly than you have your own view of what should or should not happen would be more constructive, and certainly more mature.

And Joe has offered an excellent thread on the use of the QUOTE function.
If you were to read this and put the suggestions into practice it would render your posts less difficult to read.


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## Garpal Gumnut (5 September 2009)

Trembling Hand said:


> GG when was the last time you slummed it in the bush?






Mate, people in the bush do not "slum it".

This is exactly the mindthink that folk who live outside of the major cities abhor.

I live in the bush. I travel in the bush. I fish and hunt in the bush or on the sand or reef. I fly over the bush, admittedly preferably in business or first, although rarely in a heli ( don't like one bolt between me and Michael Jackson).

I get my weather forecasts from locals and birds animals and insects, not from AL GORE or some other useless SOB who caters for the city folks angst about life.

May I ask you when your present basket will be fully weaved?

gg


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## Uncle Barry (5 September 2009)

Dear Julia.
My dear yours is a odd kind of post.

You add nothing except to find fault in the poster, and nothing about the claim/s from the first poster.

More mature, I will try in the future, but at 66 years old, should I really try, just for you, when I don't even know you ?

*"and then explaining more clearly than you have your own view of what should or should not happen*"

I thought after seening the silly same posters posting the same non thinking material and not even reading what the situation about, why bother going into very much detail, as you will be only fired at, the detail, there is enough to write a PHD on the subject but why bother ?

My dear, I seem to remember I got into trouble with yourself a while ago, because simply I didn't quote correctly, I should have used the quote button of something, to keep you happy  
(which at the time caused a huge smile on my face)

Well, maybe its better to just leave it all with you, thanks for your time.

Kind regards,
UB


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## Trembling Hand (5 September 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> May I ask you when your present basket will be fully weaved?
> 
> gg




GG unfortunately I'm to busy to finish the basket. After all someone has to do some real work and pay taxes to support all the subsidised services in the bush. Including your overpaid rangers that have to replace all the park signs that the red necks shoot up each weekend when they get a skin full.


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## nunthewiser (5 September 2009)

I dont know if this fits in with the original intention of this thread but ....

any of you guys seen the damage feral goats do ? 

they destroy EVERYTHING in there paths , wipe out all the native vegatation.

they dont read national park signs so tend to wipe them out also 

shoot em all i say 

baste every 30/40 mins with some garlic and hoisin sauce and maybe a lil lemon juice , whilst stuffing the belly cavity with whole onions and capsicums and a bit more garlic ......whilst roasting on a spit over a nice bed of coals


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## Prospector (5 September 2009)

Hell, and I thought the gun lobby in the US was crazy.  Pest control is entirely different from recreational shooting; or do we need to pick up our shotguns when checking into National Parks for fear of a rampaging boar heading up the walkway lest it reduce me 







Uncle Barry said:


> with sh...running down the back of your legs




Yep, that happened to me just last week, there was this 200 kilo wild boar came bearing down on me when walking through the National Forest.  

C'mon, the worst thing that happened in a National Forest recently was that silly Victorian Politician getting lost.  Wild boars rampaging, where is the rofl smilie.  And oh yeah, those goats sure pack a punch! 

Anger management might be a good thing too.  Angry people in favour of guns scare me much more than rampaging boars.


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## Judd (5 September 2009)

Lot of unnecessary anger on this thread.

I've got friends who own farms close National Parks.  Have heard and seen the devastation that ferals can do to livestock.  My view is farmers have every right to blast the darn things out of existence.  Also seen what happened to a friend's livestock when houses close to his farm didn't keep their friggin dogs inside while the owners were at work.  They just surge in a pack to kill for the thrill and nothing more.  Again he has every right in my opinion to flame both the dogs and the owners if he can get away with it.

I have absolutely no objection to professional shooters being engaged to cull ferals, be they goats, pigs, cats, dogs, scrubbers or whatever in National Parks.  It is necessary task and a worthy one.

I do object to recreational shooting in these areas or releasing of introduced wildlife in private parks for hunting purposes.  Use the weapons at the butts and prove that you are worthy of a place on the Role at Bisley but keep the huntin', shootn' out of National Parks.  You're not needed there.


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## Joe Blow (5 September 2009)

Just a reminder to all that these debates *do not* have to degnerate into personal attacks.

Stick to the issues and don't succumb to the temptation of calling people names or using obscenities.

It will make me cranky. And that's not a good thing. 

Carry on.


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## Prospector (5 September 2009)

Judd said:


> I have absolutely no objection to professional shooters being engaged to cull ferals, be they goats, pigs, cats, dogs, scrubbers or whatever in National Parks.  It is necessary task and a worthy one.
> 
> I do object to recreational shooting in these areas or releasing of introduced wildlife in private parks for hunting purposes.  Use the weapons at the butts and prove that you are worthy of a place on the Role at Bisley but keep the huntin', shootn' out of National Parks.  You're not needed there.




Yup, exactly.


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## So_Cynical (5 September 2009)

NSW has approximately 6.5 million hectares of National park land...The Sporting Shooters 
Association of Australia NSW branch has approximately 36000 members.

So one shooter for every 1805 hectares or so....assuming 1 out off 10 shooters at any 
given time....hardly an issue at all.


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## Prospector (5 September 2009)

So_Cynical said:


> NSW has approximately 6.5 million hectares of National park land...The Sporting Shooters
> Association of Australia NSW branch has approximately 36000 members.
> 
> So one shooter for every 1805 hectares or so....assuming 1 out off 10 shooters at any given time....hardly an issue at all.




I think the 'locals' are a little concerned about this:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26023855-5006784,00.html
_THE residents of Hill Top need no reminding of the "bullets for votes" deal that has flourished under the NSW Labor government. It is there, in the picturesque Southern Highlands, that a government often reliant on the support of the Shooters Party to pass legislation has agreed to build a giant new $5 million shooting complex.

About 1000ha of national park, popular with bushwalkers, has been annexed for the development: a series of rifle, pistol and shotgun ranges that will accommodate thousands of shooters from the state's south, and probably the military, too. And for Jodie Laing, from the Hill Top Residents Action Group, concerns about the project have only deepened in the six months since it passed muster with NSW Planning Minister Kristina Keneally. 

A modification application has recently been submitted to Ms Keneally's office that would allow, among other things, the storage of firearms, ammunition and black powder during special events -- on a site with no permanent security, no perimeter fence, as requested by police, and sits in a bushfire-prone region. _

Fortunately, the Shooters party were denied the opportunity to shoot native animals, BUT this is why they are refusing to support the Government on other non-related Bills:
http://www.smh.com.au/national/minister-sidelined-in-police-pay-talks-20090826-ezta.html
_The party has refused to agree to help the Government pass legislation after its bill allowing some shooting of native animals in national parks was defeated in the last session of Parliament._

So, give the Shooters want they want or they refuse to support the Government on other, entirely different legislation.  Nothing like holding a gun to their heads.


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## knocker (5 September 2009)

nunthewiser said:


> I dont know if this fits in with the original intention of this thread but ....
> 
> any of you guys seen the damage feral goats do ?
> 
> ...




I agree about the goats, but have not really seen any feral ones in Australia. Plenty here in the Algarve though. I 've tried them and the meat is a bit tough. But is a nice meal with a case of SAGRES. cheers buddy


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## knocker (5 September 2009)

Prospector said:


> Hell, and I thought the gun lobby in the US was crazy.  Pest control is entirely different from recreational shooting; or do we need to pick up our shotguns when checking into National Parks for fear of a rampaging boar heading up the walkway lest it reduce me
> 
> Yep, that happened to me just last week, there was this 200 kilo wild boar came bearing down on me when walking through the National Forest.
> 
> ...




Well luv you must lead a protected existence the, because they are definitely out there and not very hard to find.


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## Prospector (5 September 2009)

knocker said:


> Well luv you must lead a protected existence the, because they are definitely out there and not very hard to find.




Wot, crazy gun lobbyists or wild boars. : Nope, not protected, but certainly none within 400 k's of Adelaide.  Maybe in the Flinders Ranges up north.


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## knocker (5 September 2009)

Prospector said:


> Wot, crazy gun lobbyists or wild boars. : Nope, not protected, but certainly none within 400 k's of Adelaide.  Maybe in the Flinders Ranges up north.




No true, only Hill Billies there ROFLMAO


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## trainspotter (5 September 2009)

nunthewiser said:


> I dont know if this fits in with the original intention of this thread but ....
> 
> any of you guys seen the damage feral goats do ?
> 
> ...




I'm coming to your place for dinner ! I'll have the kangaroo tail soup for entree' as well.


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## Prospector (5 September 2009)

knocker said:


> No true, only Hill Billies there ROFLMAO




Actually, the main creatures we cull in SA are Koalas!  They are pests on Kangaroo Island. And have singificant disease and are eating themselves out of the vegetation they eat. They are injected though, not shot at.


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## nunthewiser (5 September 2009)

trainspotter said:


> I'm coming to your place for dinner !





 happy to put that kitchen on that "Awesome" dinghy to work ......

mind you a spit roast on an island beach sounds pretty funky actually ........

have spit will travel


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## trainspotter (5 September 2009)

nunthewiser said:


> happy to put that kitchen on that "Awesome" dinghy to work ......
> 
> mind you a spit roast on an island beach sounds pretty funky actually ........
> 
> have spit will travel




Thinking spit roast on Champagne beach on the West side of Gun Island might be the go? Boys trip in late October Nun ... will give you the heads up once organised.


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## nunthewiser (5 September 2009)

trainspotter said:


> Thinking spit roast on Champagne beach on the West side of Gun Island might be the go? Boys trip in late October Nun ... will give you the heads up once organised.





No worries ! ... 

sounds good .......very good actually!


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## trainspotter (5 September 2009)

nunthewiser said:


> No worries ! ...
> 
> sounds good .......very good actually!




We can go over to the Islands (read National Marine Park) and shoot some baby seals before breakfast. Should be fun !


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## nunthewiser (5 September 2009)

trainspotter said:


> We can go over to the Islands (read National Marine Park) and shoot some baby seals before breakfast. Should be fun !





hahahahah yeah i need a new hat!


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## trainspotter (5 September 2009)

We could decimate the Sooty Tern population while we are at it ! Picture is of fur seal on Champagne Beach .. if you look real hard you can see the boats in the background.


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## nulla nulla (5 September 2009)

moXJO said:


> I'm not up to speed on the bill, but this seems like a stupid idea. Who wants to walk around the national park when there are bullets flying? All I can say is good luck fighting the greens on this.




"I Shoot and I Vote". As a licensed shooter in NSW; a member of the Sporting Shooters Association Australian  (SSAA); and being from the country, I can see the merit of shooters being granted permission (or special permits) to shoot feral species in National Parks in general or National Parks where feral species are a problem.

However I can also see the danger to other non-shooting members of the public, enjoying their right to wander arround the national parks. 

Maybe a compromise would be in order, say, certain days of the month or year where the parks are closed for culling of feral species by permit holders?


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## trainspotter (5 September 2009)

Makes sense to me nulla nulla. You have my vote.


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## Garpal Gumnut (5 September 2009)

I know many shooters and many greens. I've met some from greenpeace as well.

I find greenpeacers the most aggressive followed by the greens.

The shooters are the most sensible and have a surprising interest in ecology and sustainability of flora and fauna, and animals of all types.

Its an upside down world.

gg


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## Goodoo (5 September 2009)

Judd said:


> Reason I was going on about introduced species in the Shooters party Bill.
> 
> "The Shooters Party has tabled a bill in the NSW Parliament today that could see foreign animals and birds introduced to private land for recreational shooting.
> 
> ...




There are no species listed which are not already in private hands in NSW. Appropriate fencing will keep the animals in, as happens now. I think to many people are believing what the animal liberationists have been spouting to the media, most of which they have made up.

As for the shooting in national parks, this has been happening in NSW state forests for 3 years without any of the stories the animal liberationists have imagined happening. Only parks with very few visitors are opened and even then there are usually large areas, which are the most accessible parts are exclusion areas where hunting is not allowed. Hunters don't want bushwalkers tramping through scaring animals, and the feral animals avoid the usual use areas. Bob carr doubled the area of national parks while he was premier, and many of these are rarely visited. The NPWS budget for pest control has not been increased the same and the pests are taking over, destroying our native animals and the parks they live in. Using trained and qualified Game Council Conservation Hunters pest control is done for free by volunteers. The proposed system for national parks is the same as the one operating in state forests and it is not open slather. There are many hoops to jump through before you can book a section of forest to hunt in.

This bill also does not automatically open any parks to hunting when passed. It gives the environment minister the ability to open parks they see fit and list pest animals which can be shot in each location.


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## Goodoo (5 September 2009)

nulla nulla said:


> "I Shoot and I Vote". As a licensed shooter in NSW; a member of the Sporting Shooters Association Australian  (SSAA); and being from the country, I can see the merit of shooters being granted permission (or special permits) to shoot feral species in National Parks in general or National Parks where feral species are a problem.
> 
> However I can also see the danger to other non-shooting members of the public, enjoying their right to wander arround the national parks.
> 
> Maybe a compromise would be in order, say, certain days of the month or year where the parks are closed for culling of feral species by permit holders?




I agree with most you say, but do you know how the system works now in state forests. Very limited parks will be opened and within those parks only some area will be avaiable to hunters.


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## nulla nulla (5 September 2009)

Goodoo said:


> I agree with most you say, but do you know how the system works now in state forests. Very limited parks will be opened and within those parks only some area will be avaiable to hunters.




As well as being a licensed shooter, i am a licensed angler. I like to fish the rocks however access to some popular locations has been restricted by the closure of national parks to the public. We try to work arround the problems through the formal channels. Eventually, i hope, sane heads will prevail.


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## knocker (5 September 2009)

nulla nulla said:


> "I Shoot and I Vote". As a licensed shooter in NSW; a member of the Sporting Shooters Association Australian  (SSAA); and being from the country, I can see the merit of shooters being granted permission (or special permits) to shoot feral species in National Parks in general or National Parks where feral species are a problem.
> 
> However I can also see the danger to other non-shooting members of the public, enjoying their right to wander arround the national parks.
> 
> Maybe a compromise would be in order, say, certain days of the month or year where the parks are closed for culling of feral species by permit holders?




There is a simple solution to this problem. 

Shooters are alocated a specific area. A "beacon" is setup  in the centre of this zone. Shooters must stay within a certain distance from this beacon. Other people in the park can access the location of the beacon via there gps. A specified distance from that beacon in all directions is unsafe for them to walk in.

Problem solved.


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## knocker (5 September 2009)

knocker said:


> There is a simple solution to this problem.
> 
> Shooters are alocated a specific area. A "beacon" is setup  in the centre of this zone. Shooters must stay within a certain distance from this beacon. Other people in the park can access the location of the beacon via there gps. A specified distance from that beacon in all directions is unsafe for them to walk in.
> 
> Problem solved.




Further to this, shooters should only be allowed in the parks during off seasons, i.e not xmas or easter.  In fact winter is ideal time, and when the brats are back at school.


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## Julia (5 September 2009)

trainspotter said:


> We can go over to the Islands (read National Marine Park) and shoot some baby seals before breakfast. Should be fun !



TS, I know you are probably just being 'funny', and I know I will be labelled soppy and silly, but I'd be really grateful if you could not post stuff like this.

You don't have to take any notice of me, of course, but it's a sincere request.


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## Goodoo (5 September 2009)

Any of those suggestion are unnecessary as hunters will only be in the least accessible parts of the least used parks. Feral animals avoid contact with people in most cases, so hunters will not want to hunt in popular areas. The danger has also been overrated as all hunters licensed to be in state forest will ensure their target before fireing and have a backstop behind the animal.

Stopping hunting during peak tourist periods over Christmas does have some merritt as these are high use times and it is more likely bushwalkers will venture into the more remote areas. In Victoria where many national parks are open to hunters they do this and stop hunting from Dec to Feb. The rest of the year it is completely unregulated all you nee to do is pay your $44 for a deer licence and you can hunt any of several national parks anywhere including the Alpine National Park with no regulation or other controls. The system in NSW entails more licensing and testing as well as limited areas open to hunters. Hunters also can't just go hunting where you like you have to make a booking which only allows about 1 hunter per 1000 acres.


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## knocker (5 September 2009)

Goodoo said:


> Any of those suggestion are unnecessary as hunters will only be in the least accessible parts of the least used parks. Feral animals avoid contact with people in most cases, so hunters will not want to hunt in popular areas. The danger has also been overrated as all hunters licensed to be in state forest will ensure their target before fireing and have a backstop behind the animal.
> 
> Stopping hunting during peak tourist periods over Christmas does have some merritt as these are high use times and it is more likely bushwalkers will venture into the more remote areas. In Victoria where many national parks are open to hunters they do this and stop hunting from Dec to Feb. The rest of the year it is completely unregulated all you nee to do is pay your $44 for a deer licence and you can hunt any of several national parks anywhere including the Alpine National Park with no regulation or other controls. The system in NSW entails more licensing and testing as well as limited areas open to hunters. Hunters also can't just go hunting where you like you have to make a booking which only allows about 1 hunter per 1000 acres.




I realise this, but people will wander into very remote areas, and if someone does, by a quark of fate get shot, then imagine the uproar.better to cover all avenues of escape, and put the onus back on the non-shooters.


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## trainspotter (5 September 2009)

Julia said:


> TS, I know you are probably just being 'funny', and I know I will be labelled soppy and silly, but I'd be really grateful if you could not post stuff like this.
> 
> You don't have to take any notice of me, of course, but it's a sincere request.




Consider your sincere request granted Madam Julia !


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## Bafana (6 September 2009)

There are way too many Roo's around. Let them shoot.


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## knocker (6 September 2009)

Bafana said:


> There are way too many Roo's around. Let them shoot.



Well you could always use em as target practice.


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## Trembling Hand (6 September 2009)

knocker said:


> Further to this, shooters should only be allowed in the parks during off seasons, i.e not xmas or easter.  In fact winter is ideal time, and when the brats are back at school.



 You would be surprised at how little the numbers drop off during winter.



Goodoo said:


> Any of those suggestion are unnecessary as hunters will only be in the least accessible parts of the least used parks. Feral animals avoid contact with people in most cases, so hunters will not want to hunt in popular areas.



 Well there is your answer. Bring in more walkers and the feral animals will be driven out to the state forests. :


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## Garpal Gumnut (6 September 2009)

Trembling Hand said:


> Well there is your answer. Bring in more walkers and the feral animals will be driven out to the state forests. :




Walkers should be able to take care of themselves, otherwise they should stick to a safe city park or beach.

gg


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## Prospector (6 September 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Walkers should be able to take care of themselves, otherwise they should stick to a safe city park or beach.
> 
> gg




Is there a difference between State Forests and National Parks?  There certainly is in SA.


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## moXJO (6 September 2009)

Uncle Barry said:


> Good evening dumb and stupid PEOPLE.
> 
> I read this and thought, what stupid people the people that posted before me,
> the dills that will flap their jaws BOFORE knowing what they are even talking about !
> ...






Uncle Barry said:


> _[B]what type of moron can get satisfaction from blowing the brains out of an innocent and defenceless[/B]_
> 
> TOTAL B/S !
> I would love the day, to see you standing there with sh...running down the back of your legs
> ...





Ohh bazza.... 

 There are a lot of irresponsible shooters out there. Just ask any farmer that has let shooters on their land. I was primarily interested in if it was open slather. IMO there should be a special licensing course to shoot in national parks to weed out the idiots. And don't tell me all shooters are responsible because I know scores of them.

I shoot and was in the army, and as far as I am concerned 100kg of bacon running at you is hardly $hit inducing when you have a gun (and dogs in most cases)


Here is the bill which no one seemed to be bothered to produce. Like I said good luck getting it through in it's current form. I have no problem with people shooting pests. 

http://www.nccnsw.org.au/images/stories/events/game%20and%20feral%20animal%20control%20bill%20amendment.pdf


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## Uncle Barry (6 September 2009)

_IMO there should be a special licensing course to shoot in national parks to weed out the idiots._ 

*there ALREADY IS, *the same licence as has to be obtained for shooting in State Foests !
BUT
if you know scores of shooter you WOULD KNOW about this condition ALREADY !

_And don't tell me all shooters are responsible because I know scores of them.
Scores, well, my man
I would say YOU DON'T know SCORES of shooters !

There, any other silly post playing with the facts to siut the poster!_


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## Trembling Hand (6 September 2009)

Uncle Barry said:


> There, any other silly post playing with the facts to siut the poster!




Its clear that shooters in national parks will solve no feral animal problem. They cannot solve it on a small amount of land that they are now allowed to use.What makes them think spreading over a larger area will make them more effective. 

Let them go to Africa and shot at caged/fenced animals to stroke their egos. They will achieve nothing in national parks just like they have achieved nothing in state forests. Other than giving rangers something to do ie replace signs.


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## Uncle Barry (6 September 2009)

Dear T Hand
I bet that post make you feel good, way down deep somewhere in side !

AGAIN
another silly post by someone *who hasn't a clue what they are talking about *except to cause a sh..t stir.


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## Uncle Barry (6 September 2009)

T Hand, 
its time, its time to put up or shut up, as its said, 

"Its clear that shooters in national parks will solve no feral animal problem"

PLEASE
show me the study,
the facts
or something to point your point.

or if you cannot, throw your cards in and zip up,

with the kindest of regards, 
UB
come to think of it, I've had enough of these pointless posts that talk total rubbish without any clear knowledge of the facts...... thanks boys and girls.


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## Goodoo (6 September 2009)

knocker said:


> I realise this, but people will wander into very remote areas, and if someone does, by a quark of fate get shot, then imagine the uproar.better to cover all avenues of escape, and put the onus back on the non-shooters.




I can imagine the uproar our left wing media would create in that situation because it would help their sales and viewings. That does not mean the risk is real or they care about public safety. Why don't they create an uproar when 10 children under five drown in home pools every year, or 1,500 people die in car accidents and 22,000 or seriously injured. There is risk in everything, and if we wanted to stay completely safe, we would never leave home, until we were told that 75% of accidents happen at home. There is no completely safe place.

I would say the odds of someone getting shot are so low, that if you were worried about that, you would never get in a car. You would be much more likely killed in a car crash getting to the park, or even shot by a criminal with an illegal weapon in Sydney, or have a tree fall on you while hiking. This is the same system which has operated in NSW state forests for 3 years with no incidents. 

There is illegal hunting in national parks now, and what is proposed with licenced hunters there would stop this, as people committing illegal acts don't want to be caught. National Parks even put out a study I have seen, that stated hunting even though illegal, has prevented an increases in feral pig populations in Kosciusko National Park. So hunting takes place now it is just criminals doing it. Who do you think would be safest, a criminal who has an illegal weapon, and probably never had a gun license, or a licensed trained person, who has had to book to hunt there.


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## moXJO (6 September 2009)

Uncle Barry said:


> _IMO there should be a special licensing course *to shoot in national parks *to weed out the idiots._
> 
> *there ALREADY IS, *the same licence as has to be obtained for shooting in State Foests !
> !




Add another layer for *national parks * not just an R license. And I could care less that it would be basically the same thing
Don't feed me the $hit on not knowing how a lot of weekend Rambo’s behave.

Now while a lot of responsible shooters will only take a shot if the bullet is going to eat dirt if it misses. There are a few that will take the shot no matter what their position. And that is just one of the many possible problems. Shooters do not need to be in national parks.




> PLEASE
> show me the study,
> the facts
> or something to point your point.




Here is an attempt, on the efficiency of rec hunters controlling feral pop

http://www.invasives.org.au/downloads/Critique_IsHuntingConservation.pdf

Arguing with you on a subject I would rather not, just because you came across as a bit of a self righteous tosser in your first few posts, is something I would rather not do. Worse would be to provide any damaging material from here on in, just because you start calling for proof or calling me a liar


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## Prospector (7 September 2009)

Trembling Hand said:


> Let them go to Africa and shot at caged/fenced animals to stroke their egos. They will achieve nothing in national parks just like they have achieved nothing in state forests. Other than giving rangers something to do ie replace signs.




  You mean lions, tigers, elephants, rhinos -  like the former British aristocracy did just to prove they were cleverer with a gun than an animal in the wild.....


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## Trembling Hand (7 September 2009)

Uncle Barry said:


> T Hand,
> its time, its time to put up or shut up, as its said,
> 
> "Its clear that shooters in national parks will solve no feral animal problem"
> ...




Barry
It would be a shame if you don't come back. You personal attacks on everyone will be missed . Your lack of any reason or fact in your posts will be missed . You inability to discuss a topic in a civil manner will be missed  You lack of any positive persuasion for your point of view will be greatly missed  And your assumption that everyone is far sillier than you will be missed. 

Oh its also a shame that you will not comment on the list of studies put together by the ISC that backs up my post. : Just like you wanted, facts except they contradict your opinion.


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## mellifuous (7 September 2009)

Prospector said:


> You mean lions, tigers, elephants, rhinos -  like the former British aristocracy did just to prove they were cleverer with a gun than an animal in the wild.....




wasn't it about entertainment?


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## Trembling Hand (7 September 2009)

Goodoo said:


> I would say the odds of someone getting shot are so low, that if you were worried about that, you would never get in a car. You would be much more likely killed in a car crash getting to the park, or even shot by a criminal with an illegal weapon in Sydney, or have a tree fall on you while hiking. This is the same system which has operated in NSW state forests for 3 years with no incidents.



 I don't think its really a matter that much for safety. its about use of public lands in an environment that is conducive for all to have access. No one wants to go to our great national parks for whatever type of relaxation they are there to enjoy and have the sound of gun shots ping off over the hill.

Call it a nanzy pansy view if you want but its real. Most Australians don't like to be near people using guns.



Goodoo said:


> There is illegal hunting in national parks now, and what is proposed with licenced hunters there would stop this, as people committing illegal acts don't want to be caught.



 That is just silly logic. Then we should make the speed limit 250K/h. That's will stop the illegal speeding.  You want to remove an illegal act so it not illegal?? You want to think about that?



Goodoo said:


> National Parks even put out a study I have seen, that stated hunting even though illegal, has prevented an increases in feral pig populations in Kosciusko National Park. So hunting takes place now it is just criminals doing it. Who do you think would be safest, a criminal who has an illegal weapon, and probably never had a gun license, or a licensed trained person, who has had to book to hunt there.




Could you provide it because it sound like BS. the numbers that needs to be killed for population control are huge. Rec shooters haven't a hope in hell of achieving these numbers. especially a few illegal ones.


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## Goodoo (7 September 2009)

moXJO said:


> Here is an attempt, on the efficiency of rec hunters controlling feral pop
> 
> 
> Arguing with you on a subject I would rather not, just because you came across as a bit of a self righteous tosser in your first few posts, is something I would rather not do. Worse would be to provide any damaging material from here on in, just because you start calling for proof or calling me a liar





The invasive species council is a voluntary organisation run by anti hunting people especially Carol Booth who has a doctorate is in Psychology. They never provide solutions just critisms, which is easy when they dont have to provide results.

I have not seen them even claim to be impartial but their record speaks for itself. They even made ridiculous claims in that anti hunting piece such as most of that 6,000 feral animals killed did not count because they were rabbits. Last time I checked rabbits are a serious pest which breed very quickly. Those several thousand rabbits would breed into 100,s of thousands if not controlled.


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## Goodoo (7 September 2009)

Trembling Hand said:


> Could you provide it because it sound like BS. the numbers that needs to be killed for population control are huge. Rec shooters haven't a hope in hell of achieving these numbers. especially a few illegal ones.





Here it is. http://www.publish.csiro.au/paper/WR9930559.htm



> The demography of a sub-alpine population of feral pigs was examined at Kosciusko National Park in south-eastern New South Wales. Reproductive data and age structures indicated a seasonal pattern of breeding, most births occurring in summer and autumn. It is proposed that a decreasing availability of high protein food in the autumn and winter months caused reduced rates of conception. Sows produced 0.84 litters per year with postnatal mortality as high as 85%. The population appeared relatively stable at a density of 1.6 pigs kg-2. Hunting, although illegal in a national park, removed 4.4-15.4% of pigs each year.




Does it still sound like BS


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## moXJO (7 September 2009)

Goodoo said:


> The invasive species council is a voluntary organisation run by anti hunting people especially Carol Booth who has a doctorate is in Psychology. They never provide solutions just critisms, which is easy when they dont have to provide results.
> 
> I have not seen them even claim to be impartial but their record speaks for itself. They even made ridiculous claims in that anti hunting piece such as most of that 6,000 feral animals killed did not count because they were rabbits. Last time I checked rabbits are a serious pest which breed very quickly. Those several thousand rabbits would breed into 100,s of thousands if not controlled.




I think it was more a claim that rec shooting, is not the best method for controlling pest numbers on public land. 

Are they anti hunting because they simply disagree with your opinion?


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## trainspotter (7 September 2009)

Trembling Hand said:


> Barry
> It would be a shame if you don't come back. You personal attacks on everyone will be missed . Your lack of any reason or fact in your posts will be missed . You inability to discuss a topic in a civil manner will be missed  You lack of any positive persuasion for your point of view will be greatly missed  And your assumption that everyone is far sillier than you will be missed.
> 
> Oh its also a shame that you will not comment on the list of studies put together by the ISC that backs up my post. : Just like you wanted, facts except they contradict your opinion.




LOLOL TH ... This is what makes ASF so entertaining. Life is like a garden bed man ... just dig it ! So many personalities to soak up and enjoy. I personally enjoy UB's whip hand. Genius in it's purest form. IMO. Just like yours.


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## Goodoo (7 September 2009)

moXJO said:


> I think it was more a claim that rec shooting, is not the best method for controlling pest numbers on public land.
> 
> Are they anti hunting because they simply disagree with your opinion?




Not only my opinion, The NSW game council employ wildlife biologests and produce scintific results showing the effects hunting in state forests.
The ISC then comes out with a media release saying there is not benefit, and have never provided any scintific evidence to support their claim.
The Victorian Fox bounty only went for 7 months and 170,000 bounties were paid meaning at least 170,000 foxes were killed. I shoot foxes and saw how Fox numbers dropped, the bounty was very effective. The ISC then claimed in the media it was not effective, again they do not provide proof and as their name sounds offical and Carol Booth has a doctorate the media dont doubt them.

One of the main points the ISC claims is that more pests breed if some are removed. This may be the case in very high densities, but in most cases we dont have high enough densities to stop breeding. 

Just look at their recored, find one thing they have done to reduce pests.


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## moXJO (7 September 2009)

Goodoo said:


> Not only my opinion, *The NSW game council* employ wildlife biologests and produce scintific results showing the effects hunting in state forests.




I don't know if that is the best source to quote either (please provide links as I would be interested). 
Regardless of which ever it is, I don't have a problem with rec shooting. But I don't think the feral pop is a good enough excuse to get them into the national parks.


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## Trembling Hand (8 September 2009)

Goodoo said:


> Here it is. http://www.publish.csiro.au/paper/WR9930559.htm
> Does it still sound like BS




No just not effective like you claim it is.



> Hunting, although illegal in a national park, removed 4.4-15.4% of pigs each year



 Like I said to UB before he went off on his rant. Rec Hunters say that they are controlling or helping to control the problem but they don't. They are not effective enough. All they do it take out a small percentage of the population which is quickly replaced by others. 

And professional's say they make their job harder by spooking them.

Can you answer this. If you think Rec Hunters are effective pest control why are the state forest still full of pests? You cannot get away from this. The area hunters are allowed in are still full of feral animals. So the control line is BS.


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## Bafana (8 September 2009)

Shooters should be allowed to enjoy shooting. Only make sense.


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## Goodoo (8 September 2009)

Trembling Hand said:


> No just not effective like you claim it is.
> 
> Can you answer this. If you think Rec Hunters are effective pest control why are the state forest still full of pests? You cannot get away from this. The area hunters are allowed in are still full of feral animals. So the control line is BS.




There are a lot less pest animals in State forests which are available to hunting than their was. Do you have evidence of populations not falling. This is particularly so where they don't join onto a national park. I will tell you about two I hunt at. 

One is surrounded buy farmland and has goats, pigs, foxes, cats and rabbits. I go there after goats to eat and there are a lot less than there was three years ago. This is not a very big forest only a few thousand hectares. I have also shot Foxes and Cats when I see them, and there are less than there was. 

The other forest I hunt is surrounded by national park and the forest itself is smaller than the first one I hunt. About 1,500 goats have been shot there by Game Council Conservation Hunters and they just keep coming out of the national park as no control I know of is done by the NPWS. Due to the national park I will go there if I am in a hurry to get few goats. If I want to spend time hunting I go to the other as it is getting difficult to find goats as their population has been significantly reduced.

Cats are one animal where there is no argument about the effectiveness of recreational shooters. I have never seen one which is not fat so they have no trouble catching native birds, reptiles and small marsupials, and females breed at least once a year. Cats do not take baits as they prefer fresh kills, shooting is the only reliable way to kill them. Every one I kill never kills another native animal and stops raising another 6 kittens each year. They are also very difficult to target and can be seen anywhere at any time and are much more cunning and cautious than foxes. The only reliable way to get them is hours walking through the bush. I don't know why you think professionals do a better job, the only difference is one gets paid. Another question, would a professional shoot all the pests if they could, it is their livelihood and once there are no pests they are out of a job. Recreational shooters often travel to many forests and are doing it as a free service to the environment.


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## Trembling Hand (9 September 2009)

Goodoo said:


> There are a lot less pest animals in State forests which are available to hunting than their was. Do you have evidence of populations not falling:confused.




LOL.

You have a very large flaw in your argument which you seem unable to address. If numbers were falling to any effective degree there would not be a problem of feral animals in the areas you are allowed to hunt. There would be close to zero animals. But there is stacks. You may like to kid yourself that taking 5-10% of the population is effective but its not. After 100 years of hunting these things by rec hunters they are still there.

They have failed. Spreading the hunters over a larger area will make them no more effective.


----------

