# How to get European Citizenship being a trader???



## paringas (21 April 2009)

Excuse me if i posted in the wrong end of the forum.
I am trying to attract the right type of crowd...

Closer to the point:

Current citizenship benchmarks in Europe are 5+ years of legal employment or legal residence(employment mainly).
Self-Employent is not considered employment.
You could also start a business, but you have to have 100K+ euro and you generally have to employ 1+ local or eu workers.

The question here is: how do you trade for a living, legally stay in europe and at the end of the 5+ year period get the citizenship??? 

The only thing i could come up with is an "employment deal" where someone "employs you", signs paperwork for you and "pays you" for 5+ years, where in reality you pay them for their services.

Would be wonderful to hear thoughts and scenarios this community has on the subject including contacts to make arrangements.
Please, no marriage or european ancestry comments.


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## gordon2007 (21 April 2009)

I think you may need to talk to a migration expert from europe then.

 Does England have any thing using the commonwealth connection? Maybe you can move to england (based on you having australian citizenship) and then get it through there?


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## dutchie (21 April 2009)

Buy a leaky boat in North Africa??


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## paringas (21 April 2009)

gordon2007 said:


> Does England have any thing using the commonwealth connection? Maybe you can move to england (based on you having australian citizenship) and then get it through there?




Well, you would think there'd be something there.
However, apart from the reciprocal agreement for 1 year work and travel, there really isn't anything for you to catch (someone, please, tell me i'm wrong).

The harsh reality is that i most likely wouldn't want to work for somebody for 5+ years and would be happy to enter some sort of a deal.
On the other hand i really don't want to mess around with the whole fictitious marriage thing.

May be i could "work" for a broker trading my own money???

I've seen some dual citizenship threads before.
Surely, someone around here has some insights into this.


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## paringas (21 April 2009)

Ireland looks like it might have a similar setup to Australia whereas you'd have to be employed within certain sectors for 2 years and then might be able to apply for "long term residency" which is called "permanent residency" in Australia.
The legislation is currently being drafted:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/c...workers/employment-permits/green_card_permits
http://www.entemp.ie/labour/workpermits/greencardrenewal.htm

After being issued with long term residency you could go back to trading and winding up the remaining 3 years living it up all through europe(as long as you don't have ireland exit or other eu entry stamps in you passport)

...One of the angles - need a better one...


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## gordon2007 (21 April 2009)

paringas said:


> On the other hand i really don't want to mess around with the whole fictitious marriage thing.




Nice to see you're a law abiding citizen


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## i_in (4 May 2009)

paringas said:


> Excuse me if i posted in the wrong end of the forum.
> I am trying to attract the right type of crowd...
> 
> Closer to the point:
> ...





I'm sorry that I see your question a little late. I'm interested of the same thing but I'm EU citizen and I wonder haw to take AU. I think I already have a decision on my problem, but at the same time I understand what is the way about this in many other countries. If I can be a useful with something, just ask
gl


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## kam75 (4 May 2009)

paringas said:


> The only thing i could come up with is an "employment deal" where someone "employs you", signs paperwork for you and "pays you" for 5+ years, where in reality you pay them for their services.





Haha, sounds shady...watch out man.  Sorry, can't be of help.  I got an EU passport and you know what?  I still can't find work there or anywhere else for that matter!  Get your trading right and accumulate a big enough stake.  Then you can live and work anywhere in the world.


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## prawn_86 (4 May 2009)

There is some discussion on VISAs and citizenship of my travel forum if you are interested


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## It's Snake Pliskin (4 May 2009)

The demographic forecast is a huge issue for anyone wanting to go there and set up for a long period. But what a lovely place to wake up in. Walk down cobblestone streeets listening to church bells with coffee, bread, cheese, etc... And the markets to make a living off. 

http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2006/11/in_america_arguments_about_the.cfm


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## theasxgorilla (4 May 2009)

It's Snake Pliskin said:


> The demographic forecast is a huge issue for anyone wanting to go there and set up for a long period. But what a lovely place to wake up in. *Walk down cobblestone streeets listening to church bells with coffee, bread, cheese, etc*... And the markets to make a living off.
> 
> http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2006/11/in_america_arguments_about_the.cfm




I see you've been to Delft Snake!


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## prawn_86 (4 May 2009)

theasxgorilla said:


> I see you've been to Delft Snake!




I thought that was Bruge...


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## Calanen (4 May 2009)

Got it already. Did nothing special, just an accident of parentage. In all places you just need to get an employer to sponsor you and stick around long enough to become a citizen.


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## oremo (4 May 2009)

Hi

Interesting Post.

I have dual Citizenship. Australian and European.

I know my Aussie market, Aussie way of trading etc.

My question is this......

Can I use my dual citizenship to my advantage?

Anyone out there with any savvy on the subject? I'd appreciate some feedback

Cheers

Oremo


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## theasxgorilla (5 May 2009)

prawn_86 said:


> I thought that was Bruge...




I was there only a handful of weeks ago...to complete the picture for Bruge one must add beer and chocolate...lots of beer.


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## theasxgorilla (5 May 2009)

oremo said:


> Can I use my dual citizenship to my advantage?
> 
> Anyone out there with any savvy on the subject? I'd appreciate some feedback




Set up your trading in Australia, as a resident citizen.  Go to Holland and get the expat 30%-tax-ruling.  Any income or cap gains earned on overseas investments will be tax-free in Holland for 10 years.  Become a non-resident of Aust, and as such any cap gains you earn from trading activities will be tax-free.  That is legal tax free gains where you trade, and legal tax free gains where you reside.  Can it be better?


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## prawn_86 (5 May 2009)

theasxgorilla said:


> Set up your trading in Australia, as a resident citizen.  Go to Holland and get the expat 30%-tax-ruling.  Any income or cap gains earned on overseas investments will be tax-free in Holland for 10 years.  Become a non-resident of Aust, and as such any cap gains you earn from trading activities will be tax-free.  That is legal tax free gains where you trade, and legal tax free gains where you reside.  Can it be better?




Wow thats crazy. And i just happen to have a Dutch passport... 

So if i were to run an Aus business (not trading) from Holland i wouldnt be subject to tax? Did i read that right?


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## theasxgorilla (5 May 2009)

prawn_86 said:


> Wow thats crazy. And i just happen to have a Dutch passport...
> 
> So if i were to run an Aus business (not trading) from Holland i wouldnt be subject to tax? Did i read that right?




I don't know about that.  But if I buy and sell shares in Aust and make a capital gain I don't pay tax on that in either country.  The trick is you need to get the expat 30%-ruling, and they don't exactly give those away.  You get it when they couldn't find a person to do your job locally.  But if you manage to get the ruling you're set with this arrangement for up to 10 years.  There are other perks too...like not paying income tax on the TOP 30% of your income.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (5 May 2009)

theasxgorilla said:


> I see you've been to Delft Snake!



No, but I would like to go there.


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## prawn_86 (5 May 2009)

theasxgorilla said:


> I don't know about that.  But if I buy and sell shares in Aust and make a capital gain I don't pay tax on that in either country.  The trick is you need to get the expat 30%-ruling, and they don't exactly give those away.  You get it when they couldn't find a person to do your job locally.  But if you manage to get the ruling you're set with this arrangement for up to 10 years.  There are other perks too...like not paying income tax on the TOP 30% of your income.




Wow, now you've got my mind racing. 

What can i provide that the Dutch workers cant...


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