# W.A. state election 2013



## drsmith (16 October 2012)

The latest Newspoll shows Labor in even more strife than the feds currently, although Mark McGowan is much mpre popular than Eric Ripper was as opposition leader.

What's going on here ?

Are federal issues also in play ?

http://resources.news.com.au/files/2012/10/15/1226496/638664-121016-wa-newspoll.pdf


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## sptrawler (28 January 2013)

*W.A. State election, will it be a bellwether for Labor?*

Labor has come out punching, Barnett and the Coalition have put up electricity prices a huge amount.
McGowan, is ex Navy officer, so should be able to present himself well without dropping the ball.
Barnett has a vision, do the W.A electorate believe in it? 
There is one thing I believe, if Barnett wins, Gillard is toast.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/15968055/mcgowan-declares-end-to-phoney-campaign/


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## drsmith (3 February 2013)

*Re: W.A State election, will it be a bellwether for Labor*



sptrawler said:


> McGowan, is ex Navy officer, so should be able to present himself well without dropping the ball.



He's not too keen on the matriarch coming over,



> During a previous visit by Ms Gillard, the State Opposition leader was holidaying in Bali.
> 
> And yesterday Mr McGowan sought to distance himself from her, saying there was no need for a visit because the March state election was about "state issues".
> 
> "I'm not aware of the Prime Minister's diary," he said.




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/wa-labor-snubs-pm-julia-gillard/story-e6frg6n6-1226567468742


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## robusta (3 February 2013)

You poor bastards, two elections in one year. My most sincere sympathies.


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## drsmith (3 February 2013)

robusta said:


> You poor bastards, two elections in one year. My most sincere sympathies.



Mark McGowan I suspect would be happier if both elections were held on the same day or the state election the week after. I suspect the electorate would as a whole too.

That way he could at least have some confidence the electorate would exhaust itself swinging the baseball bats in the direction of  federal Labor.


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## IFocus (3 February 2013)

drsmith said:


> Mark McGowan I suspect would be happier if both elections were held on the same day or the state election the week after. I suspect the electorate would as a whole too.
> 
> That way he could at least have some confidence the electorate would exhaust itself swinging the baseball bats in the direction of  federal Labor.




McGowan is not making any traction I think he will be lucky to lose only a couple of seats the real game will be between the Libs and Nats and the $1 Bil a year Nationals private slush fund.


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## sptrawler (3 February 2013)

IFocus said:


> McGowan is not making any traction I think he will be lucky to lose only a couple of seats the real game will be between the Libs and Nats and the $1 Bil a year Nationals private slush fund.




I think you are on the money. 
The problem is McGowan was going on about Barnetts spending and State debt, six months ago.
Now he's out there talking about big spending, all very confusing.
However I do think he will do well next election, if he holds Rockingham.


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## sptrawler (3 February 2013)

IFocus said:


> McGowan is not making any traction I think he will be lucky to lose only a couple of seats the real game will be between the Libs and Nats and the $1 Bil a year Nationals private slush fund.




Here is another example of McGowans imaturity as a politician.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/...rnett-packer-burswood-stadium-meeting-leaked/

If the State Goverment is going to build a billion dollar stadium, right alongside Packers, Crown Burswood complex. 
Blind Freddy would know they would discuss common issues, if they didn't they would be dumb.
I think McGowan needs to settle down a bit, otherwise he will shoot his feet off.
The Last thing I want to see is a landslide, Federal or State, it's not good for anyone.


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## IFocus (3 February 2013)

sptrawler said:


> Here is another example of McGowans imaturity as a politician.
> 
> http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/...rnett-packer-burswood-stadium-meeting-leaked/
> 
> ...




Not sure about the  immaturity aspect but McGowan really doesn't have much to work with I guess they will grab anything thats going.

I cannot see Barney making to many mistakes as long as he can keep the rest of the sitting Liberals quite.

As I have said before he is the stand-out state premier in Australia unlike the eastern sea board mob.


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## sptrawler (3 February 2013)

IFocus said:


> Not sure about the  immaturity aspect but McGowan really doesn't have much to work with I guess they will grab anything thats going.
> 
> I cannot see Barney making to many mistakes as long as he can keep the rest of the sitting Liberals quite.
> 
> As I have said before he is the stand-out state premier in Australia unlike the eastern sea board mob.




Yes, I think we are on the same page, just wish McGowan would tone it down a bit, it isn't helping him.
In some ways best to build for the next election, he's not going to change peoples minds in a month.IMO

I personaly believe you need to flip governments, saving phases and spending phases. It keeps them honest, but you don't want a landslide.

Sometimes it's best to lose a battle, with minimal damage, in order to win the war.

As for Barney, an amazing union guy(rip) I knew and worked for, once told me Barney was the only pollie with any brains.


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## drsmith (3 February 2013)

sptrawler said:


> Here is another example of McGowans imaturity as a politician.
> 
> http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/...rnett-packer-burswood-stadium-meeting-leaked/
> 
> ...



Another, from a few days ago.



> Opposition Leader Mark McGowan told Fairfax Radio today that if Labor triumphs in the March 9 election, he would consider a name change for the project, which has created major traffic upheaval as a 2.7-hectare inlet is carved into the Esplanade.
> 
> Mr McGowan did not say what other names he had in mind.




http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/fu...25293/labor-could-change-elizabeth-quay-name/


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## drsmith (3 February 2013)

One possible answer to this little spat,



> Mr Buswell today again questioned Labor’s $3.8 million estimate for its five “priority” projects under Metronet after on Friday challenging Mr McGowan to submit the plan to Treasury for analysis.
> 
> However, Mr Buswell again refused to release the advice he received from Treasury that costed Labor’s airport link at $860 million more than what Labor had estimated.




The $731.5m price tag only gets this railway to the ariport and not to Forrestfield.



> That’s why we have a realistic plan to build a rail line to Perth Airport by mid 2018, as the first stage of METRONET’s South Circle Line.
> 
> The estimated total cost of the Perth Airport rail line is $731.5 million, including rail and road infrastructure for the project (excluding rail cars). The project will start during 2014-15, with a completion date of mid-2018.




http://www.markmcgowan.com.au/files/METRONET_-_Perth_Airport.pdf

The section from the Airport to forrestfield would be very expensive (whoever builds it) as it would require tunnelling under the future terminal expansion, the third runway, the freight railway line and Abernethy Road. I assume the Airport station itself and adjacent line towards the CBD would also be underground as to avoid conflict with Horrie Miller Drive and the new airport access road (Gateway WA).


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## drsmith (3 February 2013)

> Mr McGowan said the planned Circle Freeway would remove all 10 traffic lights from the Kwinana Freeway to Perth Airport, Tonkin Highway to Reid Highway and back across to the Mitchell Freeway.
> 
> He said instead the lights would be replaced by five overpasses along Reid and Tonkin Highways at Erindale Road, Malaga Drive, Benara Road, Morley Drive and Collier Road, with the remaining intersections reconfigured to become freeway exits.




http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/fu...plans-circle-freeway-for-smooth-run-metronet/

I suspect that the Libs road priorities will be an expressway link from the eastern end of the GFF above Orrong Road to Leach Highway to compliment Gateway WA and facilitate free flowing access from the CBD to the airport. This would be controversial project as it would be an elevated concrete structure going through a residential area.

The controversial Roe 8 project I suspect will be postponed in favour of a widening of the Kwinana Freeway south of Roe Highway. A new road to replace the Great Northern Highway as the main access from the north may also get a look in. This project would need to attract some federal funding to go ahead.

http://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/BuildingRoads/Projects/planning/Pages/perthDarwin.aspx


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## sptrawler (3 February 2013)

drsmith said:


> One possible answer to this little spat,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Which is exactly the point I was making, sometimes it takes a steady hand, other times it requires illogical spending.
The Mandurah rail link is a perfect example.

Libs wanted to run it off the Armadale line after Backenham, through Thornlie onto the Mandurah line at Bibra Lake, minimum cost maximum return.

Labor got in, 'No' run it down the freeway, quicker more scenic. However it has taken up probably six lanes of the freeway. Magic just Magic.

Sometimes the popular choice isn't the smart choice.

If Labor had continued on with the Libs idea, then worked back down the freeway with a subway, they would have been seen as visionaries. Now they are seen as goons.IMO


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## drsmith (3 February 2013)

sptrawler said:


> Labor got in, 'No' run it down the freeway, quicker more scenic. However it has taken up probably six lanes of the freeway. Magic just Magic.
> 
> Sometimes the popular choice isn't the smart choice.
> 
> If Labor had continued on with the Libs idea, then worked back down the freeway with a subway, they would have been seen as visionaries. Now they are seen as goons.IMO



It struck me as the most practical option for the railway, but as you say, a disaster for future designed capacity on the freeway. 

One option for the freeway south of Mill Point Road might be to convert the emergency stopping lanes to traffic lanes with a 80km/hr speed limit. It's a solution, but not ideal, that's for sure.


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## sptrawler (3 February 2013)

drsmith said:


> It struck me as the most practical option for the railway, but as you say, a disaster for future designed capacity on the freeway.
> 
> One option for the freeway south of Mill Point Road might be to convert the emergency stopping lanes to traffic lanes with a 80km/hr speed limit. It's a solution, but not ideal, that's for sure.




No the only option is to bury the train line or raise it on an overhead line, what a bloody disaster.
This is the problem with emotional policy, it ends up costing twice as much to fix it.
Half ar$ed policy, sounds familiar.lol

Same as the anger against having the gas hub above Broome, magic I hope they stop it, there won't be a Broome in 30 years.LOL
Idiots led by idiots.IMO
Today in the Sunday Times, they are saying the tourist traffic is dropping.
Well if there isn't any money coming in why, would the government keep supplying services, what is wrong the thinking of these people?
Do they really think Broome is better than Phuket? I bet they don't spend their holidays in Broome.

Just thought of another one, with the cost of fuel etc, I just travelled the Nullabor and would have to say. It must be government subsidised. There is no way the traffic pays the bills.lol


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## drsmith (5 February 2013)

Labor's very much out there with the big-spending announcements.

Are they spending all their chips too quickly ?


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## sptrawler (5 February 2013)

drsmith said:


> Labor's very much out there with the big-spending announcements.
> 
> Are they spending all their chips too quickly ?




Absolutely, everyone is over splash of cash pork barreling, federal Labor cured them of  that.

Funny McGowan, hasn't stopped and thought about his lambasting of Barnett for goverment spending.
Now he is out there increasing government spending, he will learn a lot from this election.

I think Labor federally and at a state level, need a reality check and to go back to what Labor is about.
The only Labor person I have any respect for is Allan Carpenter a very honorable and decent person.IMO

I was too young to know much about honest John Tonkin, but from what I have read a Kalgoorlie/Boulder boy that put the State first.
Charlie Court, another that put the State first.
At the moment we have a parliamentary system which is bloated with me, me me, people, both state and federal.
It really makes for sad politics, because it really doesn't have anything to do with us, it's all about them.

By the way, I may be presumptuous, but I think history will put Barnett in the same league. Time will tell.
I hope he has a big win, giving him confidence to move on with a vission, christ we need someone with a vission.
Everyone is over more of the same, more suburban sprawl, more fifo,more kfc, more dome coffee.


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## drsmith (10 February 2013)

Mark McGowan has hit the panic button.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-10/greens-slam-mcgowan-tax-stance/4510724?section=wa


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## drsmith (10 February 2013)

Colin Barnett releases the Libs airport rail plan. 

http://www.wa.liberal.org.au/sites/www.wa.liberal.org.au/files/AirportRailLink.JPG

The above reads like it will go to Forrestfield in a single build.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-10/liberals-unveil-airport-rail-plan/4510834


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## sptrawler (10 February 2013)

The Forrestfield line runs down to Thornlie then on past Canning Vale and the Mandurah line.


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## drsmith (10 February 2013)

sptrawler said:


> The Forrestfield line runs down to Thornlie then on past Canning Vale and the Mandurah line.



Labor's ultimate Metronet plan mentioned a Wattle Grove station. A possible route is relatively obvious on Google sat images although I'm not sure whether there's enough reservation in the road reserve for both road and rail along the Tonkin Highway reservation between Roe Highway and Welshpool Road. Hale Road and Welshpool Road are ultimately planned to be grade seperated from Tonkin Highway.


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## Julia (10 February 2013)

drsmith said:


> Mark McGowan has hit the panic button.



Delicious.  The Labor Party aspirant publicly states that he does not support the carbon tax.
Another nail in the coffin of Federal Labor.


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## drsmith (10 February 2013)

Julia said:


> Delicious.  The Labor Party aspirant publicly states that he does not support the carbon tax.
> Another nail in the coffin of Federal Labor.



The irony I see in it is about fighting the election on state issues.


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## drsmith (15 February 2013)

With Labor promising to to scrap funding to the Museum, Oakajee, Roe 8 and moving the stadium to fund Metronet, it's getting interesting. 

There's also the cost stoush over Metronet.

What will the Libs do now with Roe 8 ?

What will they do with the floating Orrong Road ?

With their airport rail and light rail plans, they too are promising to spend big on public transport.


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## drsmith (16 February 2013)

It looks like the difference between Labor's costings and the PTA's for Metronet are based on two additional engineering considerations, one being duplication of the the line from Bayswater to Perth to service Labor's additional services and the interaction of any trenching required as Labor's airport line runs around the airport runways.

Upon further review of Labor's plan, it's clear they are going to Forrestfield in a single build, but they have saved costs by avoiding the Lib's tunnel under the runways and terminal building. The disadvantages are that everything will be at grade, including across the airport access roads (new Gateway WA access road and Horrie Miller Drive), the freight railway and Abernathy Road. Exactly what they are going to do across the site of the future third runway is unclear, but this would obviously have to be grade seperated when the third runway is built (additional cost).  Labor's plan also suffers from having the airport station about 1km from the terminal building. Two modes of transport are therefore required for those who don't wish to walk that distance. Labor's plan looks on the cheap and cost arguements will revolve around the level of trenching and consequent water table considerations around the runways and the detail of their build in the vicinity of the future third runway. At grade across the freight line east of the airport is another debatable point.

The Libs plan is visionary and far more practical, but the big question is justification due to the huge cost. $1.9bn could build a lot of other transport infrastructure.


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## drsmith (20 February 2013)

Mark McGowan's announced he's going to stop the bulldozers down at Elizabeth Quay and keep Riverside Drive open.

What's he going to do with the piles of sand ?


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## bellenuit (20 February 2013)

drsmith said:


> Mark McGowan's announced he's going to stop the bulldozers down at Elizabeth Quay and keep Riverside Drive open.
> 
> What's he going to do with the piles of sand ?




Rather than turning the Graham Farmer Freeway into a 3 lane each way tunnel, I'm really disappointed that they have not considered building rail and road tunnels just to the river side of The Esplanade and the buildings side of Langley Park. There are few obstacles there at the moment, so they would be comparatively cheap to build, and it would allow city access to the river and Elizabeth Quay without having to traverse Riverside Drive. The rail line could join the Convention Centre station to East Perth and service all the developments that are being planned along that route, as well as various parts of Adelaide Terrace.


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## sptrawler (21 February 2013)

drsmith said:


> Mark McGowan's announced he's going to stop the bulldozers down at Elizabeth Quay and keep Riverside Drive open.
> 
> What's he going to do with the piles of sand ?




The problem I see, with not developing the riverfront is as a tourist destination, Perth is very limited.
Not developing it, gives more amenity to the locals but doesn't produce much bang for bucks, don't get me wrong I love the riverfront as it is.
If it isn't developed and to a degree exploited, it costs us more.
It is a bit like Rotto everyone loves the way it is, but how many people stay there. I've lived here all my life and never stayed there, visited it three times and I'm nearly 60.
I would rather the government developed it as a cash cow to reduce taxes.


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## sptrawler (21 February 2013)

I saw on the news tonight they were trying to get into an arguement with Barnett about the electricity supply.
Best of luck with that,lol if any politician has his head around the electrical supply system in W.A, Barnett is it.
McGowan would be biting off more than he can chew if he goes there.IMO


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## drsmith (21 February 2013)

bellenuit said:


> Rather than turning the Graham Farmer Freeway into a 3 lane each way tunnel, I'm really disappointed that they have not considered building rail and road tunnels just to the river side of The Esplanade and the buildings side of Langley Park. There are few obstacles there at the moment, so they would be comparatively cheap to build, and it would allow city access to the river and Elizabeth Quay without having to traverse Riverside Drive. The rail line could join the Convention Centre station to East Perth and service all the developments that are being planned along that route, as well as various parts of Adelaide Terrace.



It's an act of madness to close such an arterial in a rapidly growing city. Tunnels have been considered, but these are at enormous cost. I think the Libs looked at putting Riverside Drive underneath their present development, but the cost would have added an additional $400m. I would have thought that the simplest and most effective solution would be to construct a pedestrian broadwalk over the existing Riverside Drive and develop either side of that.

Labor's freshly released plan, partly lifted from Perth City Gatekeepers, may still cut the existing Riverside Drive. It's hard to tell from the image whether the broad grassed area and path on the east side of William Street passes over or it or is at grade with Riverside Drive.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/16195096/water-fight-as-mcgowan-backs-rival-plan/
http://citygatekeepers.com.au/better-planning/


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## drsmith (21 February 2013)

drsmith said:


> Labor's freshly released plan, partly lifted from Perth City Gatekeepers, may still cut the existing Riverside Drive. It's hard to tell from the image whether the broad grassed area and path on the east side of William Street passes over or it or is at grade with Riverside Drive.



It's a bridge over the top.



> Putting a land bridge over Riverside Drive would be much cheaper and would bring the city to the river - instead of the other way around under the current project, Mr McGowan said.




http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/br...ion-debate-rages/story-e6frf7kf-1226582107424

He should have presented this before the construction contract was awarded in December.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...th-quay-contract/story-fndo2j1f-1226540614286


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## drsmith (24 February 2013)

Mark McGowan's comments on Elizabeth Quay last week did seem to me to have a whiff of desperation. That's confirmed in some new polling.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...reign-once-again/story-e6frg13u-1226584422323


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## sptrawler (25 February 2013)

BIG STUFF UP, by Barnett, capitulating to the nurses union after saying he couldn't give a pay rise in the caretaker period.
The unions will climb all over him, like flies on a bucket of $hit. He really needs to have some answers, or Labor/Unions have played 'rope a dope'.
This is going to go feral if he isn't carefull.
Just shows, you can't have a heart in politics.lol

I would love to see who gave him the advice, to cave in to the nurses. What a laugh, they threaten this every pay claim.
Then when they walk out only a small number do so.


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## chops_a_must (25 February 2013)

sptrawler said:


> Which is exactly the point I was making, sometimes it takes a steady hand, other times it requires illogical spending.
> The Mandurah rail link is a perfect example.
> 
> Libs wanted to run it off the Armadale line after Backenham, through Thornlie onto the Mandurah line at Bibra Lake, minimum cost maximum return.
> ...




Rubbish. Just rubbish.

The freeway route was unpopular.

It's now regarded as a great piece of urban planning.

And I take it you've never studied much physics? 

What would increasing the funnel do when you can't increase the spout?

There is only one way to increase capacity on the freeway - to take cars off it.

And it's good to see some serious debate on public transport and mass transit issues.

Another reason why us sandgropers are better, more intelligent, superior and successful beings. Represented by the performance of WA.


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## IFocus (25 February 2013)

chops_a_must said:


> Rubbish. Just rubbish.
> 
> The freeway route was unpopular.
> 
> ...




LOL nice to see you back chops hope the brother is OK and things worked out, agree about the public transport debate.


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## drsmith (25 February 2013)

chops_a_must said:


> And it's good to see some serious debate on public transport and mass transit issues.
> 
> Another reason why us sandgropers are better, more intelligent, superior and successful beings. Represented by the performance of WA.



In terms of the Libs policies, it's going to be interesting to see in the final days of the campaign whether Roe 8 sinks and whether or not the floating Orrong Road is even floated.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/9648413/buswell-plans-express-road-to-airport/

With the big spend on the airport rail, I suspect it won't.

Other potential road projects in the pipeline include widening the Kwinana Freeway south of Roe Highway and an extension of Tonkin Highway north of Reid Highway (New Perth/Darwin national highway). The latter though would need a federal funding component to go ahead.


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## chops_a_must (25 February 2013)

I doubt whether roe 8 will go ahead.

It makes little sense.

The 8 lane Stirling hwy was taken off the gazette.

There won't be a bridge into Dalkeith.

Wouldn't solve access into freo port and future planning has Freo port as less and less important.


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## drsmith (25 February 2013)

chops_a_must said:


> I doubt whether roe 8 will go ahead.



I reckon they'll delay it.

There would be too much loss of face right now to can it outright, and the $20m in planning it.


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## sptrawler (25 February 2013)

chops_a_must said:


> Rubbish. Just rubbish.
> 
> The freeway route was unpopular.
> 
> ...




Well it is great to debate with you and thanks for your opening statement.
The original route from Mandurah, is still in place and Labor are talking of using it in their Metronet stratergy. 
Making dumb all encompasing statements with no substance isn't an answer just a limp excuse for bad decissions.
By the way I would love to see your supporting evidence that the freeway route has been proved to be a 'great piece of urban planning'.
I think it will be proven to be the dumbest piece of transport policy enacted, when it has to be pulled up, at a time most people are using it.lol


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## sptrawler (25 February 2013)

chops_a_must said:


> I doubt whether roe 8 will go ahead.
> 
> It makes little sense.
> 
> ...




So you doubt Roe 8 will go ahead, yet you obviously think the port facility will move, so how do you move non rail goods from the port?

8 lane Stirling highway, where? into the city.


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## chops_a_must (25 February 2013)

sptrawler said:


> Well it is great to debate with you and thanks for your opening statement.
> The original route from Mandurah, is still in place and Labor are talking of using it in their Metronet stratergy.
> Making dumb all encompasing statements with no substance isn't an answer just a limp excuse for bad decissions.
> By the way I would love to see your supporting evidence that the freeway route has been proved to be a 'great piece of urban planning'.
> I think it will be proven to be the dumbest piece of transport policy enacted, when it has to be pulled up, at a time most people are using it.lol




All you'd have to do is look at media reports around the time of the decision to put the rail down the freeway.

There was a sustained campaign to oust the project.

And it has been an out and out success. It has the best passenger numbers, has the lowest cost for taxpayers, in terms of receipts and maintenance. 

It is being modelled as an example of how to retrofit rail into sprawling cities in Australia.

The simple fact is, Perth needs much more rail. Light, heavy and freight.


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## chops_a_must (25 February 2013)

sptrawler said:


> So you doubt Roe 8 will go ahead, yet you obviously think the port facility will move, so how do you move non rail goods from the port?
> 
> 8 lane Stirling highway, where? into the city.




I take it you haven't lived in Perth long?

Yes.

The original plan was to have another freeway, the Stirling hwy, going into the city.

That was when roe 8 was a part of the road master plan for Perth, with the Stirling hwy as a freeway.

I don't understand what you mean in regards to the port issue.


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## sptrawler (25 February 2013)

chops_a_must said:


> All you'd have to do is look at media reports around the time of the decision to put the rail down the freeway.
> 
> There was a sustained campaign to oust the project.
> 
> ...




If you had been current with the debate nobody has said it wasn't a great idea, just the way it was excecuted.
This is the problem jumping in mid way through a debate and wandering around in your wellies, bellowing like a @ick.


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## sptrawler (25 February 2013)

chops_a_must said:


> I take it you haven't lived in Perth long?
> 
> Yes.
> 
> ...




Jeez, obviously you are the font of all knowledge, forgive me.

I saw them build the narrows.
I know Charlie talked about ripping up the freo line, to increase stirling highway, i lived in battle st flats, mosman park. lol

With the port issue, you stated access to freo port becomes less and less important.
I thought you were alluding to the fact the port will probably be relocated further south. Maybe I'm giving you more credit than is due?

No I haven't lived in Perth long, I lived in Dampier in 1967, Kambalda in 1969. Mostly lived in the bush but have lived in Perth since 1985.


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## chops_a_must (25 February 2013)

sptrawler said:


> Jeez, obviously you are the font of all knowledge, forgive me.
> 
> I saw them build the narrows.
> I know Charlie talked about ripping up the freo line, to increase stirling highway, i lived in battle st flats, mosman park. lol
> ...




Now you're digging it.

Roe 8 only makes sense with those two factors in existence.


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## sptrawler (25 February 2013)

chops_a_must said:


> Now you're digging it.
> 
> Roe 8 only makes sense with those two factors in existence.




No actually the only reason the Roe 8 doesn't make sense is because of a bunch of @icks.
Go down to Bibra Lake and most of the year it is dry as a bone. If it was a natural wetland that reflected the water table by holding water constantly, there maybe some arguement(I lived in Yangebup)
There is no sensible reason a highway carried on cement pylons, couldn't be taken through between the lakes.

Actually if you go back a few years Bibra Lake was farmed.lol

Obviously you haven't lived in Perth long, YES?


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## chops_a_must (25 February 2013)

sptrawler said:


> No actually the only reason the Roe 8 doesn't make sense is because of a bunch of @icks.
> Go down to Bibra Lake and most of the year it is dry as a bone. If it was a natural wetland that reflected the water table by holding water constantly, there maybe some arguement(I lived in Yangebup)
> There is no sensible reason a highway carried on cement pylons, couldn't be taken through between the lakes.
> 
> ...




Lived in leeming and kardinya all my life except the last 4 years.

It reflects the natural water table because that water is being extracted from the jandakot water mound.


----------



## drsmith (25 February 2013)

The Roe Highway was ultimately designed to connect to Striling Highway via the Fremantle Eastern Bypass. This was to provide a route for heavy freight to the Fremantle as an alternative to Leach Highway.

Labor in its last term (foolishly in my view) sold the land for the Fremantle Eastern Bypass and was going to sell the Roe Highway reserve west of the Kwinana Freeway, but backed away from the latter after the feds threatened to withdraw funding for Roe 6 and 7. 

Roe 8 as proposed only goes to Stock Road and as such is only a partial solution now for freight access to Fremantle due to the loss of the Fremantle Eastern Bypass. Roe 8 would also serve as a southern access to/from the new hospital. 

I don't know whether or not Roe 8 should be built, but it was short sighted to sell the Fremantle Eastern Bypass corridor. Adelaide did this to a much greater extent in the 80's and will be paying a high price for decades to come. Anyone who's driven the length of Adelaide's main north/south arterial (South Road) would know what I'm talking about here.

Fortunately for Perth, Stephenson's transport plan has been largely left in tact, but MATS (Adelaide) was stripped away much more than it should have been.


----------



## sptrawler (25 February 2013)

chops_a_must said:


> Lived in leeming and kardinya all my life except the last 4 years.
> 
> It reflects the natural water table because that water is being extracted from the jandakot water mound.




So the water table is leaving Bibra Lake and North Lake dry because you people in Leeming and Kardinya are watering your lawns.
However you can't put an above ground highway across there because it will affect the wetlands you are pumping onto your lawns.lol

Yep, get up there with the chardonay brigade.lol


----------



## chops_a_must (25 February 2013)

sptrawler said:


> So the water table is leaving Bibra Lake and North Lake dry because you people in Leeming and Kardinya are watering your lawns.
> However you can't put an above ground highway across there because it will affect the wetlands you are pumping onto your lawns.lol
> 
> Yep, get up there with the chardonay brigade.lol




Nah. The Jandakot water mound is used for drinking water in the south metro area.

Major roads are a known major heavy metal pollution source. Wetlands become an entry point for these pollutants into the water supply.


----------



## CanOz (25 February 2013)

CHHHoooopppppps!!!

Where ya been man? Good to see ya!!

Welcome back!

lol, what a surpirse!

CanOz


----------



## sptrawler (25 February 2013)

chops_a_must said:


> Nah. The Jandakot water mound is used for drinking water in the south metro area.
> 
> Major roads are a known major heavy metal pollution source. Wetlands become an entry point for these pollutants into the water supply.




I did say build it on pylons, if you don't put it in the traffic jam onto the freeway from the Roe highway will go back to Midland. You can't sit there and be a @ick because it sounds cool.lol

By the way, how long have you lived in Perth.LOL


----------



## sptrawler (26 February 2013)

sptrawler said:


> I did say build it on pylons, if you don't put it in the traffic jam onto the freeway from the Roe highway will go back to Midland. You can't sit there and be a @ick because it sounds cool.lol
> 
> By the way, how long have you lived in Perth.LOL




Actually, chops a must, by the fanfare of your arrival back. I'm looking forward to some stimulating sensible debate, it has been somewhat lacking in W.A to the present.


----------



## sptrawler (26 February 2013)

chops_a_must said:


> Nah. The Jandakot water mound is used for drinking water in the south metro area.
> 
> Major roads are a known major heavy metal pollution source. Wetlands become an entry point for these pollutants into the water supply.




O.k on the same basis, all domestic bores on the Jandakot mound should be shut down as they are not metered and it is an important wetland area.
Does that sound like a good drum to beat?


----------



## chops_a_must (26 February 2013)

CanOz said:


> CHHHoooopppppps!!!
> 
> Where ya been man? Good to see ya!!
> 
> ...




Surprise?

To be adding reason and facts back into a debate. 

Been finishing my masters thesis the last year or so. Been too busy to scratch my bum!


----------



## sptrawler (26 February 2013)

chops_a_must said:


> Surprise?
> 
> To be adding reason and facts back into a debate.
> 
> Been finishing my masters thesis the last year or so. Been too busy to scratch my bum!




Well up to now that explains the Gonski report.lol


----------



## chops_a_must (26 February 2013)

sptrawler said:


> I did say build it on pylons, if you don't put it in the traffic jam onto the freeway from the Roe highway will go back to Midland. You can't sit there and be a @ick because it sounds cool.lol
> 
> By the way, how long have you lived in Perth.LOL




Pylons wouldn't help. Because the runoff would be harder to capture and filter.



sptrawler said:


> O.k on the same basis, all domestic bores on the Jandakot mound should be shut down as they are not metered and it is an important wetland area.
> Does that sound like a good drum to beat?




I agree. I think all bores should be metered.

And many areas pulling groundwater in the region up are bringing highly contaminated water to the surface. You'll notice the stains, which are the results of some pretty nasty stuff.

Would prefer to see an effort to recycle water and put that back into the lakes. And the same at gnangara.


----------



## sptrawler (26 February 2013)

Capturing and treating runoff is a minor engineering problem, as you obviously would know.

As for the bores pulling up some nasty stuff, that is more of an issue the greenies should be jumpling on.
Most of the market garden areas, that are now residential, have all sorts of nast stuff being watered down into the ground water.
Yet they are jumping up and down about a highway going between two mostly dry lakes.lol
One has to be cynical, at the moment the traffic backs up to South street approx 5 klms, how much does that pollute the enviroment?
Yet they don't demand a closing down of household bores, pushing the pesticides used on the former market gardens, down into the water table.
I really don't mind obstruction where there is sensible arguement, just deplore arguement with nonsensical basis


----------



## chops_a_must (26 February 2013)

sptrawler said:


> Capturing and treating runoff is a minor engineering problem, as you obviously would know.
> 
> As for the bores pulling up some nasty stuff, that is more of an issue the greenies should be jumpling on.
> Most of the market garden areas, that are now residential, have all sorts of nast stuff being watered down into the ground water.
> ...




That's but one issue re runoff.


----------



## CanOz (26 February 2013)

chops_a_must said:


> Surprise?
> 
> To be adding reason and facts back into a debate.
> 
> Been finishing my masters thesis the last year or so. Been too busy to scratch my bum!




I guess its just nice to see some old members back again, to know they're ok, alive and and well...

Good to see ya around again...

CanOz


----------



## drsmith (27 February 2013)

The New Perth-Darwin Highway gets the nod, but is dependent on a federal funding component.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/fu...cle/16249172/libs-bank-on-handout-for-bypass/


----------



## drsmith (27 February 2013)

WA Transport Forum on ABC 720's morning program from Feb 14,

http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2013/02/14/3690559.htm

The first half of the second audio file is especially interesting in relation to both the government's and opposition's airport rail proposals and the third airport runway.


----------



## drsmith (1 March 2013)

WA Dept. of Treasury has released the capital costings for Labor's $3.8bn Metronet package.

$4.335bn in 2012 dollars or $5.246b escalated. Mark McGowan has just admitted on ABC radio that where was a "small allocation" for escalation in his original $3.8bn cost estimate. Even in $2012 dollars, his $300m contingency is already gone, plus a bit.

Treasury's capital costings also assume $300m in federal funding from Nation Buliding Program 2.

http://www.treasury.wa.gov.au/cms/u...finances/treasury_metronet_costing.pdf?n=5384


----------



## sptrawler (7 March 2013)

The outcome of the W.A election, should give some reflection on Federal election.
Labor and the unions have poured heaps of money into negative advertising, compared to the Libs.
I think I read the other day the sum of $1m as opposed to $100,000. Therefore the outcome won't be from lack of trying by Labor.
McGowan has tried to distance himself from Gillard and to certain degree has achieved that. 
Also, IMO, he has performed well in the campaign, therefore I tend to think it will be a bellweather for Federal election.
The weekend will reveal all.


----------



## pilots (7 March 2013)

My bet is Colin will win, and pick up more seats.


----------



## sptrawler (7 March 2013)

pilots said:


> My bet is Colin will win, and pick up more seats.




I think it will be interesting, Barnett has inflicted a lot of pain with electricity prices.

He has, however, put forward a lot of big cost projects and has delivered.

If he gets thrown out, IMO it will show the general public are dumber than I gave them credit for.

Therefore, like I said, it is a bellweather for the Federal election.


----------



## pilots (9 March 2013)

Good News, ABC 24 just said that some of the polls here in the west tell that Labour have already lost 50% of the faithful votes.. If that happens we will see the PM gone with in two weeks.


----------



## pixel (9 March 2013)

pilots said:


> My bet is Colin will win, and pick up more seats.




You won't find many takers bet against you there. ... But:
As every media outlet screams it's all over, chances are the victory may not be such a whitewash as some want to make us believe. There is a groundswell of support for the underdog and blowing the trumpet for a shoo-in could easily backfire.

That aside, the state election is a little more about state issues than may be thought from the other side of the rabbit-proof fence. Barnett's arrogance and the threat of a bra-snapping, chair-sniffing, man-humping Premier has been putting many staunch Liberal supporters offside. Not enough to help Labor, but I reckon there'll be an unusually high number of informal votes; even a Christian or Family First candidate could get into the Senate.


----------



## Miss Hale (9 March 2013)

Thanks to the Western Australians for the updates on this election in the run up, it has been interesting reading for an eastern seaboarder who knows little of WA politics.  It will be a long wait over here to see the result due to the time difference but I will be watching with interest for sure


----------



## Country Lad (9 March 2013)

Miss Hale said:


> It will be a long wait over here to see the result due to the time difference




Nope, Anthony Green called it after only an hour of counting.  A large swing to the Libs who could govern in their own right if they so wish.

Cheers
Country Lad


----------



## Miss Hale (9 March 2013)

Country Lad said:


> Nope, Anthony Green called it after only an hour of counting.  A large swing to the Libs who could govern in their own right if they so wish.
> 
> Cheers
> Country Lad




I only meant that it would be 9pm on the east coast before the polls closed.  Not surprised the result was evident fairly quickly.


----------



## Muschu (9 March 2013)

I'm watching the  ABC TV analysis (sadly can't get Julie Bishop off the screen)...   But it frustrates me that candidates assume that if we vote for them we are totally onside.......  For me it is choosing between poor alternatives.  

With dear Julie is Stpehen Smith...  Nationally I'd prefer to see Smith lead Labor and Turnbull lead Liberal.  

Anyway this is the system we have.....


----------



## chops_a_must (10 March 2013)

WA once again shows why we lead the nation.

We have the two best political party leaders anywhere in the country.

I just hope that far canal Colin now has some better members to assign portfolios to, because behind him, have been some absolute chumps.

And on balance, I think it's not a bad result for Labor. McGowan is a good leader, and I think without him it would have been an absolute massacre.

And after the federal rabble is tossed in September, he'll have a much better chance.


----------



## chops_a_must (10 March 2013)

And the Adele Carles saga has basically wiped out the greens in WA.

Which has hurt labor massively.


----------



## sptrawler (10 March 2013)

Well Labor has lost 8 - 10 seats, there is a 6.3% swing against them.
It doesn't look good for Gillard and the goons.
McGowan ran a reasonable campaign, my guess is the result is a reflection on Federal Labors performance.


----------



## Aussiejeff (10 March 2013)

sptrawler said:


> Well Labor has lost 8 - 10 seats, *there is a 6.3% swing against them*.
> It doesn't look good for Gillard and the goons. McGowan ran a reasonable campaign, my guess is the result is a reflection on Federal Labors performance.




Wrong. From the ABC election site....Labor down 2.3% so far. Most of the LNP gain has been at the Greens and Independents expense it would seem (-7.7% combined).



> 75.3% counted. Updated Sat Mar 9 11:10 PM
> 
> Party  	% Vote	Swing	              Won	Predict
> Liberal	47.2	        +8.8			30	33
> ...




Still doesn't bode well for JuLiar cum Fed election time.... since I suspect a similar rout for the Greens & Independents will occur in that poll too.

At least we have something positive to look forward to.


----------



## Logique (10 March 2013)

Tuned in on ABC24 last night, it was compelling viewing for this east coaster. It was as if WA voters were saying "You call that an election? This is an election!"  

A 7% swing to the Libs/Nats, no Greens, no Indeps, the Nats ahead in Kimberley, and the Alfred Cove independent, having circulated a 'How to Vote Labor' with herself at No.1, got her fair dues with a 25% swing against her.  

Troy Buswell - maybe time to forgive and forget? Loved the way he paid out on the mudslingers last night, as 'un-Australian'. Take note federal Labor.

An impressive young Nats leader Brendon Grylls who won his new seat off Labor. 

Colin Barnett has to be the best Premier going around.  

Federal Labor could do worse than install the impressive Stephen Smith as leader.



> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...g-swings-to-libs/story-fnhk4aej-1226593945763
> 
> ..But the strongest response to the defeat came from Ms MacTiernan, a former WA Labor infrastructure minister, who called on the federal party to dump Ms Gillard.
> 
> ...


----------



## IFocus (10 March 2013)

Logique said:


> An impressive young Nats leader Brendon Grylls who won his new seat off Labor.




Gryllis spent around $250 mil or more I think in the Pilbara to secure the seat but the royalties for regions has certainly put the Nats back into the game I guess time will tell if its money well spent or should have come from the mining oil and gas companies causing the infrastructure issues in the regions.



> Colin Barnett has to be the best Premier going around.




Barnett in the main has just been sensible (for a conservative) but also he has had some thing no other Australian state or federal government has "revenue growth" which can cover up a lot of errors.


----------



## IFocus (10 March 2013)

chops_a_must said:


> WA once again shows why we lead the nation.
> 
> We have the two best political party leaders anywhere in the country.
> 
> ...




Yes on the money Chops hope Barnett health holds up the cabinet are pretty ordinary by any measure if Barnett fell off the perch I think it would all unravel rather quickly.


----------



## bellenuit (10 March 2013)

I'm in Bangkok and don't have good access to the WA Election results. I've seen the headline figures, but can anyone fill me in on how Troy Buswell fared. Did he have a swing to him in line with the overall results or did the personal issues mitigate the results?  Great to see The Greens decimated.


----------



## chops_a_must (10 March 2013)

bellenuit said:


> I'm in Bangkok and don't have good access to the WA Election results. I've seen the headline figures, but can anyone fill me in on how Troy Buswell fared. Did he have a swing to him in line with the overall results or did the personal issues mitigate the results?  Great to see The Greens decimated.




He had a sniff of a swing.

It was also standing room only at his electoral party.


----------



## pixel (10 March 2013)

bellenuit said:


> I'm in Bangkok and don't have good access to the WA Election results. I've seen the headline figures, but can anyone fill me in on how Troy Buswell fared. Did he have a swing to him in line with the overall results or did the personal issues mitigate the results?  Great to see The Greens decimated.




latest update from the tallyroom:



> The Liberal Party have retained 22 of their 23 seats, and gained 5 ALP seats, 2 independent seats and one Nationals seat. The ALP has retained 17 of their seats and gained one off an independent. The Nationals have retained four of their seats, and gained one each from the Labor Party and an independent.
> 
> The five seats still in play are:
> 
> ...


----------



## Miss Hale (10 March 2013)

bellenuit said:


> I'm in Bangkok and don't have good access to the WA Election results. I've seen the headline figures, but can anyone fill me in on how Troy Buswell fared. Did he have a swing to him in line with the overall results or did the personal issues mitigate the results?  Great to see The Greens decimated.




He had a 4.1% swing against him on primary votes with votes going to two independents and the Nationals candidate (much bigger swing against the Labor candidate on primary votes) but *on two party preferred he had a 3.5% swing towards him*, which is lower than the overall swing of 8.8%. 

Not sure if you can access this link on the ABC website but all the figures are there for the seat of Vasse.

http://www.abc.net.au/elections/wa/2013/guide/vass.htm


----------



## bellenuit (10 March 2013)

Miss Hale said:


> He had a 4.1% swing against him on primary votes with votes going to two independents and the Nationals candidate (much bigger swing against the Labor candidate on primary votes) but *on two party preferred he had a 3.5% swing towards him*, which is lower than the overall swing of 8.8%.
> 
> Not sure if you can access this link on the ABC website but all the figures are there for the seat of Vasse.
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/elections/wa/2013/guide/vass.htm




Thanks, Miss Hale


----------



## drsmith (14 March 2013)

Most weather comes from the west. 

The darkness of the storm clouds that have gathered in that direction will no doubt not be lost on Federal Labor.


----------



## sptrawler (14 March 2013)

drsmith said:


> Most weather comes from the west.
> 
> The darkness of the storm clouds that have gathered in that direction will no doubt not be lost on Federal Labor.




Very true doc, The Gillard meister with the storm troopers are going the way of dark vader and the other loonies.

Well that's what my four kids are saying.lol 
I call them kids, but they range from 27 to 35 years old.
I am loving the theatrics of Labor, take Julia out the back give her a different haircut and chuck on glasses.
Now that is a stroke of genius.lol
They obviously still haven't worked out why union membership is falling. 
They haven't worked out that even the loyal realise that the reps aren't representing.LOL,LOL,LOL

Actually, maybe they are, today they are appealing to workers penalty rates, funny it comes up just before the election.
Also just before the election they start jumping up and down about 457 visas, what the? 
They have promoted them for the last five years and didn't they give Gina Rhinowhatever permission to bring in overseas workers for the Roy Hill mine?


----------



## drsmith (13 June 2013)

Colin Barnett's public service redundancies and raid on profits from the state's 3rd party motor vehicle insurer is to me signs of a state budget in serious trouble.

Also of interest, Karratha's mean residential rentals have almost halved in the past few months (ABC news) from an astronomical $2000 pw to a merely stratospheric level near $1000 pw.

Is this the canary in the national residential real estate coal mine ?


----------



## sptrawler (13 June 2013)

drsmith said:


> Colin Barnett's public service redundancies and raid on profits from the state's 3rd party motor vehicle insurer is to me signs of a state budget in serious trouble.
> 
> Also of interest, Karratha's mean residential rentals have almost halved in the past few months (ABC news) from an astronomical $2000 pw to a merely stratospheric level near $1000 pw.
> 
> Is this the canary in the national residential real estate coal mine ?




Yes it isn't good, I know where my son works, they have called for an across the board 5% wage cut. the workforce accepted it.
It is that or the mine closes.


----------



## drsmith (18 September 2013)

More bad news for the Barnett Government today.



> WA loses its AAA credit rating as revenue declines and debt blows out




http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-18/wa-loses-aaa-credit-rating/4965982


----------



## pixel (18 September 2013)

drsmith said:


> More bad news for the Barnett Government today.
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-18/wa-loses-aaa-credit-rating/4965982




hmm - wasn't the consensus that the Coalition had the best fiscal credentials? Hasn't that always been the Mantra of Accepted Wisdom? Labor hasn't been around for years, so who else is to blame?
Maybe the sports enthusiasts that desperately wanted a new stadium? ... but did they really?
Or the proponents of the Elizabeth Quay? Oops! But that was HRH King Col himself 

... ahh - I've got it: Blame the greedy teachers, nurses, and 457 workers who bring their kids to benefit from our "world-class" public education system for free.


----------



## drsmith (18 September 2013)

I'm not going to defend the Barnett government and the difficulties it currently finds itself in, but on the matter of Elizabeth Quay, Labor was going to build an even bigger development there before Alan Carpenter lost office in 2008 and Labor went to this year's stadium promising to build a new stadium all be it at a different location.


----------



## drsmith (18 September 2013)

drsmith said:


> Mr Barnett said the Government would now look at asset sales and slowing down some infrastructure spending to deal with the downgrade.



I can think of two infrastructure projects that I would suggest are now off the rails.

The currently unfunded Roe Highway stage 8 from Kwinana Freeway to Stock Road might also remain unfunded. That though would get a large proportion of its funding from the federal government, so that might be the more important factor there.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/18991122/wa-loses-triple-a-credit-rating/


----------



## drsmith (20 September 2013)

In a week where brush fires impacting the state government have merged into an inferno, it's not all bad news for the state's finances.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-...es-settlement-in-bell-litigation-case/4964398


----------



## drsmith (20 September 2013)

While it doesn't excuse the WA Libs in relation to the state of the WA budget, Colin Barnett does make an interesting point in relation to the GST carve up.



> It's not an easy political issue, but you cannot have a situation for the Australian Federation where there is such an imbalance in the fiscal arrangements. Now, WA is the strongest economy, it is a very prosperous and wealthy state and all West Australians accept that we are prepared to cross-subsidise the Northern Territory, Tasmania, SA. But there is a limit to that, and at the moment West Australians, when they go shopping and pay a dollar for something, only get 45 cents in the dollar back out of that GST. It could fall to seven cents. That would be a disaster for the Australian economy because you would find that the stronger economies like WA would simply go slow and the impact of that would be felt more in the weaker economies than it would be for example here in WA.




http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2013/s3852754.htm


----------



## drsmith (15 March 2014)

With the difficulties the Barnett government has brought upon itself since last year's state election, the last thing it needed was Troy Buswell to go on another alcoholic bender.



> WHENEVER Troy Buswell’s alleged chair-sniffing, bra-snapping, squirrel-gripping, dry-humping and adulterous antics threatened to kill his political career, he always knew he could rely on a coterie of Perth’s most powerful business figures to close ranks around him.
> 
> But when his luck finally ran out during what appears to have been a late-night drunken rampage behind the wheel of his ministerial car through the streets of inner-city Perth, his mates were suddenly powerless to protect the brilliant but deeply flawed West Australian Treasurer.
> 
> ...




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...of-troy-buswell/story-e6frgczx-1226855330404#


----------



## drsmith (15 March 2014)

Troy Buswell resigned from his ministerial responsibilities last weekend and there was a limited reshuffle of ministerial portfolios within the WA government on Friday, but I suspect the fallout from this will continue for the Barnett government for some time to come, as will troy himself.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/21988724/buswell-engages-solicitor/


----------



## banco (15 March 2014)

drsmith said:


> Troy Buswell resigned from his ministerial responsibilities last weekend and there was a limited reshuffle of ministerial portfolios within the WA government on Friday, but I suspect the fallout from this will continue for the Barnett government for some time to come, as will troy himself.
> 
> http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/21988724/buswell-engages-solicitor/




The talent pool has to be really shallow in WA if they were really considering that fruitcake as a possible premier.


----------



## drsmith (15 March 2014)

banco said:


> The talent pool has to be really shallow in WA if they were really considering that fruitcake as a possible premier.



Christian Porter was in the front seat to take over from Colin Barnett but he left state politics for federal politics.

Troy Buswell's biggest problem was the booze. It's clearly in control of him rather than the other way around.

The talent pool within the WA Libs does seem shallow and they're on their way to opposition at the next election if they can's turn their political fortunes around in short order. As it currently stands, it may already be too late.


----------



## IFocus (15 March 2014)

drsmith said:


> Christian Porter was in the front seat to take over from Colin Barnett but he left state politics for federal politics.
> 
> Troy Buswell's biggest problem was the booze. It's clearly in control of him rather than the other way around.
> 
> The talent pool within the WA Libs does seem shallow and they're on their way to opposition at the next election if they can's turn their political fortunes around in short order. As it currently stands, it may already be too late.




There is no one else other than Barnett, Buswell actually had the talent but unfortunately struggles with a few personal issues.

Abbott will collect some of the fall out from the state issues but I do feel the tide is turning depends if Labor can mount a credible campaign and again I think Gowan will have a positive effect.

Just cannot see how the state Liberals got themselves into this position with a bunch of no talent old men.


----------



## noco (2 April 2014)

What if it's true...What would it do to Saturdays elecetion?

What if it is just an April fools day joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/missing_wa_ballots_found/


----------



## drsmith (2 April 2014)

noco said:


> What if it is just an April fools day joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I watched the linked video yesterday and I saw no evidence of markings on those ballot papers. Even if there were, it still wouldn't be conclusive.

A couple of people having a bit of fun.


----------



## noco (2 April 2014)

drsmith said:


> I watched the linked video yesterday and I saw no evidence of markings on those ballot papers. Even if there were, it still wouldn't be conclusive.
> 
> A couple of people having a bit of fun.




That thought went through my mind also Doc.


----------



## drsmith (25 August 2014)

With emergency budget measures now certain, the Barnett government has for all effective purposes gone into caretaker mode today.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-...es-settlement-in-bell-litigation-case/4964398


----------



## drsmith (26 August 2014)

Key budget measures including sensitivity analysis is contained on pages 73 and 74 of the 2014-15 Economic and Fiscal Outlook.

http://www.treasury.wa.gov.au/cms/uploadedFiles/State_Budget/Budget_2014_15/2014-15_bp3.pdf

If current prices are ultimately the average over the year, there will be an approximate $1.6bn shortfall on iron ore royalties and an approximate $200m shortfall on the $AUD/$USD exchange rate.

Interesting too is the sensitivity of royalty income to GST Grants. From page 74,



> For a $100 million increase in iron ore royalty revenue (due to increased value of production), all else being equal, Western Australia will lose an estimated $90 million of GST grants in net present value terms (the loss will occur in later years due to the time lags in the Grants Commission process)




This effectively makes the state's iron ore royalties a federal tax in that 90% of their value is ultimately lost to the state through the GST grants process. The state though cops the volatility on YoY revenue. If the Grants Commission process was more responsive to commodity price variation, this volatility would be distributed more evenly across the commonwealth.


----------



## sptrawler (26 August 2014)

drsmith said:


> Key budget measures including sensitivity analysis is contained on pages 73 and 74 of the 2014-15 Economic and Fiscal Outlook.
> 
> http://www.treasury.wa.gov.au/cms/uploadedFiles/State_Budget/Budget_2014_15/2014-15_bp3.pdf
> 
> ...




The Federal governments aren't interested in W.A's issues, they have enough of their own, with the senate situation.
I must say though a lot of infrastructure has/is being built at the moment. 
Most of it is long overdue, the transport situation at Perth airport has been a disgrace for years, having no public transport servicing it is crazy. The only way to get too and from the airport is using bloody expensive taxis.
Royal Perth Hospital has been overcrowded for years, it was constantly on the news due to having beds in the corridors. The new Fiona Stanley, Princess Margret, Midland and Joondalup hospitals should give Perth unequaled hospital access.
The Swan river waterfront development, is needed, if Perth is going to attract visitors and hold residents. There really isn't anything of interest around Perth and due to its remoteness really does need to keep adding attractions.IMO 
It is o.k everyone slagging off at Barnett for spending on infrastructure, but they were slagging off at him for not spending on it before. You really can't win doc.


----------



## drsmith (26 August 2014)

sptrawler said:


> It is o.k everyone slagging off at Barnett for spending on infrastructure, but they were slagging off at him for not spending on it before. You really can't win doc.



The bigger problem now is the state's YoY fiscal balance.

The delay between the increase in royalty income and the impact on GST revenue has meant that the state has effectively been double counting revenue over the period the GST payments wasn't responding to royalty income increases. 

They should have used an underlying balance based on the GST revenue allocated on the royalties received for any given year. This would have resulted in significant cash surpluses in recent years but also given the budget the ability to respond to the inevitable decline in resource prices and consequent decline in resources income.

There's every possibility the scale of capital investment may be seen in the future as visionary. Much though will depend on utilisation and to that end, the ability of the WA economy to continue to grow. The combination now of debt and deficit though in a double whammy on the states finances.


----------



## sptrawler (26 August 2014)

drsmith said:


> The bigger problem now is the state's YoY fiscal balance.
> 
> The delay between the increase in royalty income and the impact on GST revenue has meant that the state has effectively been double counting revenue over the period the GST payments wasn't responding to royalty income increases.
> 
> ...




I suppose the fact W.A will have to hit the miners and the taxpayers harder, to install long overdue infrastructure, will result in a situation where the feds have to take notice.
It is ok for the federal government to bleed W.A of taxes, but when they are bleeding it to death, they start to feel the pain.
They can't expect W.A to supply the mining resource companies with services. 
The massive influx of people, both locally and fifo require services.
Also with W.A being a massive State with low population, the logistics to supply first world services is bloody expensive.
Tourism income is minimal, gst is stripped from us and given to the eastern states, is there any wonder we trip over when resource prices drop/royalties drop.lol
Try removing the tax handout to Tassie, and see how the 'Greenies Sate' lasts, two weeks later they would be closed down due to being bankrupt.
Actually doc, what is Tassies credit rating?

I actually think Barnett has done the right thing, why keep cutting back on W.A spending to send the money over east.
When our own infrastructure is run down, it really does get to a point when you say f## it we need to spend some here. So get stuffed.
The more we make, the more they take.
Barnetts spending wasn't on pink batts and handouts to all and sundry.


----------



## sptrawler (26 August 2014)

drsmith said:


> The bigger problem now is the state's YoY fiscal balance.
> 
> The delay between the increase in royalty income and the impact on GST revenue has meant that the state has effectively been double counting revenue over the period the GST payments wasn't responding to royalty income increases.
> 
> ...




How could they rely on underlying gst revenue, when it is projected to go from .37cent in the dollar, down to .11cents in the dollar.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/24820486/barnett-silent-on-spending-problem/ 

The drop in mineral prices, gives an immediate drop in royalties the W.A government recieves, yet the reduction in Commonwealth funding still happens.
Also the requirement of the W.A Government to supply infrastructure and services, to prop up the mining sector is still required.

I think Barnett is playing a blinder and it will make Abbott's job easier, because it will accelerate the problem.

As you said, it may be seen as visionary, I think it will. The only State with growth potential is W.A, to hamstring that growth is dumb.
If W.A's resource boom isn't tapped, I don't see the Eastern States and Tassie pulling any more tourist dollars than Venice, and that won't support us.
The Eastern States are becoming a manufacturing wasteland and Tassie is a novelty, selling fridge magnets.


----------



## drsmith (27 August 2014)

sptrawler said:


> How could they rely on underlying gst revenue, when it is projected to go from .37cent in the dollar, down to .11cents in the dollar.
> 
> https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/24820486/barnett-silent-on-spending-problem/
> 
> The drop in mineral prices, gives an immediate drop in royalties the W.A government recieves, yet the reduction in Commonwealth funding still happens.



The delay the response of the GST grants to changes in royalties would have been known by the government (as above) and should have been better planned for in the budget process.



sptrawler said:


> Also the requirement of the W.A Government to supply infrastructure and services, to prop up the mining sector is still required.
> 
> I think Barnett is playing a blinder and it will make Abbott's job easier, because it will accelerate the problem.
> 
> ...



With regard to the above, there is perhaps a broader need to reform the GST grants process, in particular in regards to timing.

The second question there is whether ultimately 10% of any mining royalty increase is enough incentive for any state to keep to grow the infrastructure and services it needs and to encourage resource development. I'm not in a position to make that call but as a proportion, it doesn't look like much of an incentive.


----------



## drsmith (13 March 2016)

*W.A. state election 2017*

Here come the ex-WA federal Labor brigade - Labor leadership boilover................



> Former federal MP Stephen Smith has officially declared he will challenge current WA Labor leader Mark McGowan for the party's leadership, a move Mr McGowan says has damaged and destabilised the party.
> 
> The ABC revealed on Thursday that part of the Labor caucus wants Mr Smith to lead the party to the 2017 election.
> 
> Mr Smith told reporters in Perth if the majority of the party's caucus supported him, he would put his hand up, as people had told him they feared Mr McGowan would not be able to secure a 10 per cent swing needed to form government.




http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-...-challenge-wa-labor-if-caucus-support/7243052


----------



## drsmith (5 March 2017)

As there's been no commentary here recently here on the WA state election next Saturday, I'll offer the following detailed analysis;

The Liberal Government is ****ed.


----------



## pixel (5 March 2017)

drsmith said:


> The Liberal Government is ****ed.



That's because "The Liberal Government *has* ****ed the WA Working Class."
Wasting $Millions on Emperor Colin's office refurbishment.
Wasting $1.5 Billion on a stadium in a location that is difficult to get to, but even more difficult to get away from, which will draw extra-large crowds to Crown Casino. And who has been supporting the WA Liberal Party? Donating almost three times as much to WA's Lib/Nat as to ALP's WA branch? (Find the answer in AEC records.)


> Crown Resorts Limited Australian Labor Party (W.A. Branch) $24,750
> Crown Resorts Limited Liberal Party (W.A. Division) Inc. $57,156
> Crown Resorts Limited National Party of Australia (WA) Inc $11,946


----------



## Tisme (5 March 2017)

pixel said:


> That's because "The Liberal Government *has* ****ed the WA Working Class."
> Wasting $Millions on Emperor Colin's office refurbishment.
> Wasting $1.5 Billion on a stadium in a location that is difficult to get to, but even more difficult to get away from, which will draw extra-large crowds to Crown Casino. And who has been supporting the WA Liberal Party? Donating almost three times as much to WA's Lib/Nat as to ALP's WA branch? (Find the answer in AEC records.)




Is he a casualty of the downturn in mining or is just on the nose?


----------



## pixel (5 March 2017)

Tisme said:


> Is he a casualty of the downturn in mining or is just on the nose?



Like so many who consider themselves "Born to Rule", his arrogance grew with the duration of time in office - to the point that he is now truly "on the nose". All his election promises "to get the job done" beg the question "what took you so long? you could've done the right thing  years ago!"


----------



## drsmith (5 March 2017)

Driving down Tonkin Highway past the airport this afternoon, I was thinking what a great piece of transport infrastructure that is and north of the river what a fine piece of transport infrastructure that will be, all the way to Muchea. At the same time, I was also lamenting the opportunity that will likely be lost at the other end post-election.


Tisme said:


> Is he a casualty of the downturn in mining or is just on the nose?



Both.


----------



## sptrawler (6 March 2017)

Well I think it is a shame we have so much debt, but it is great that we have lots of things to show for it, that is a first. IMO


----------



## sptrawler (6 March 2017)

pixel said:


> Like so many who consider themselves "Born to Rule", his arrogance grew with the duration of time in office - to the point that he is now truly "on the nose". All his election promises "to get the job done" beg the question "what took you so long? you could've done the right thing  years ago!"



Yes, he should have contracted Brian Burke and David Parker as advisors, they knew how to get the job done.
Politics are littered with "born to rule" people, sounds like Victoria has one ATM.


----------



## sptrawler (6 March 2017)

Tisme said:


> Is he a casualty of the downturn in mining or is just on the nose?



He isn't a casualty yet, Trump was a casualty according to the media, if memory serves me correctly.


----------



## drsmith (7 March 2017)

sptrawler said:


> He isn't a casualty yet, Trump was a casualty according to the media, if memory serves me correctly.



I hope he's not if for no other reason than Roe 8.

Cancelling the contract for that would be a travesty, especially now most of the clearing is done.


----------



## sptrawler (7 March 2017)

drsmith said:


> I hope he's not if for no other reason than Roe 8.
> 
> Cancelling the contract for that would be a travesty, especially now most of the clearing is done.



Yes, having all the truck transporting goods to the port, bottlenecking at the Kwinana freeway is crazy.

Even if the second Port is built at Cockburn Sound, the Roe Highway will still need the Roe 8 extension, moving it down to Hampton Road.
It just makes sense, Labor are making a rod for their own backs, by saying they will stop it.
They, like the Andrews Government in Victoria, will rue the day they chose the vote catching idea, rather than what is sensible.IMO


----------



## sptrawler (8 March 2017)

It will be interesting to see how the Labor Party, has funded their T.V advertising blitz, it must have cost a fortune.


----------



## Tisme (10 March 2017)

Libs and Nats doing battle the day before an election. City versus country is always an emotive issue.

Both are victims of Pauline .... welcome to Qld politics WA ...lol


----------



## SirRumpole (10 March 2017)

Tisme said:


> Libs and Nats doing battle the day before an election. City versus country is always an emotive issue.
> 
> Both are victims of Pauline .... welcome to Qld politics WA ...lol




Division is death.


----------



## Tisme (10 March 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Division is death.




Another LNP easter egg in the form of a poisoned chalice...... it seem the Libs are good at doing that while shouting out how much they have saved ala Howard, Newman, etc. Labor just leaves poisoned chalices without fanfare lol.

I only visit WA every couple of years and I have to say not a lot seems to have changed in terms of infrastructure over the last 30 years and for the last few years friends and family have been complaining about where the abundant wealth that is supposed to have flooded in has actually been spent. Certainly compared to the huge infrastructure projects in QLD and its SE, a fly over on Alexander Drive in sandy soil or the Great Eastern Highway widening is pissant stuff. 

Australian: "Labor yesterday released its election costings with a pledge to return the state’s budget to surplus in three years and to offset all of its planned spending with savings and new revenue measures. But the opposition failed to reveal a plan to slash the high levels of debt built up by the Barnett government. Under a McGowan government, the state’s net debt would continue rising to $39.97 billion by 2019-20."


----------



## SirRumpole (10 March 2017)

Tisme said:


> I only visit WA every couple of years and I have to say not a lot seems to have changed in terms of infrastructure over the last 30 years and for the last few years friends and family have been complaining about where the abundant wealth that is supposed to have flooded in has actually been spent. Certainly compared to the huge infrastructure projects in QLD and its SE, a fly over on Alexander Drive in sandy soil or the Great Eastern Highway widening is pissant stuff.




I've never been there, but if a State that is basically Perth and Fremantle with all the resources income available to it can't look after infrastructure properly, then they deserve to be thrown out.


----------



## drsmith (10 March 2017)

A warning as to what WA Labor will be like in office.



> A senior WA Labor MP has come under fire for a warning he gave to Roe 8 contractors who might attempt to seek compensation if Labor wins the election and stops the project.
> 
> Shadow Cabinet minister Fran Logan was at a public forum for members of Perth's Indian community in Jandakot on March 3.
> 
> ...




http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-09/fran-logan-denies-roe-8-compensation-threat/8341112

My bolds.


----------



## SirRumpole (10 March 2017)

Arguments both ways.



> Major discrepancies between Roe 8's environmental report and its business case have raised concerns that the project is a rush job based on massaged figures that could hang WA taxpayers out to dry.
> 
> Email and documents exchanges between Main Roads WA and the federal Department of Infrastructure, made publicly available through Freedom of Information laws, cast doubt over the design and economic viability of the road.
> 
> ...




More at

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/w...fudged-in-roe-8-rush-job-20170302-guphpe.html


----------



## pixel (10 March 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Arguments both ways.
> More at
> http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/w...fudged-in-roe-8-rush-job-20170302-guphpe.html



why am I not surprised?
The next round of party donations and donor disclosures should make interesting reading. 
If $70G helped find the "right" spot for the stadium, how much might have been required to rush the bulldozers through bush land while the Courts were still deliberating?
(Of course, it could've been something as simple as incompetence on the side of PS contract negotiators vs interested Business reps. Just think how badly WA Taxpayers were fleeced over the building contracts for Fiona Stanley and Children Hospitals. Or IT support contracts, at both State and Federal levels...)


----------



## noco (10 March 2017)

drsmith said:


> A warning as to what WA Labor will be like in office.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Typical LABOR THREATS AND INTIMIDATION.


----------



## SirRumpole (11 March 2017)

Anyone care to predict the result ?

I'll go for a 5 seat Labor win.


----------



## noco (11 March 2017)

No matter which way the people of WA vote, they will get what they deserve.


----------



## SirRumpole (11 March 2017)

noco said:


> No matter which way the people of WA vote, they will get what they deserve.




Is that because PHON has plummeted from 13% to 8% ?


----------



## noco (11 March 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Is that because PHON has plummeted from 13% to 8% ?



I don't know but you seem delighted to tell the story.

If WA vote in the  Labor  Party then they have not taken much notice of what has happened in Qld...VIC and SA or what happened with the Federal Labor Party 2007/2013.

That is why I say WA will get what they deserve .......more disappointment in the way Labor run things.....The state will go from bad to worse.


----------



## Tisme (11 March 2017)

http://www.smh.com.au/wa-news/wa-el...s-voters-on-election-day-20170311-guvyh8.html


----------



## IFocus (11 March 2017)

You're kidding Noco, once WA state Labor got rid of the corruption within (Liberals had to the same) they ran surpluses under Ripper with all the conservatives / business shrills with their hands out looking for freebies   screaming how bad it was.


----------



## SirRumpole (11 March 2017)

Tisme said:


> http://www.smh.com.au/wa-news/wa-el...s-voters-on-election-day-20170311-guvyh8.html




Seems pretty desperate. No evidence given of household costs rising.


----------



## noco (11 March 2017)

IFocus said:


> You're kidding Noco, once WA state Labor got rid of the corruption within (Liberals had to the same) they ran surpluses under Ripper with all the conservatives / business shrills with their hands out looking for freebies   screaming how bad it was.




That was a long time ago my friend......Things have changed with the turn down in mining and that is what has hit Barnett so badly.


----------



## OmegaTrader (11 March 2017)

Predictions:
1)Calling labour win 
2) one-nation balance of power in senate.
3) western power not to be privately privatised
4) deficit to get even worse 

Although I see privatising as a short term fix to the long term solution of deficits. Sell what we have to pay for spending too much every year, If it is done correctly, government can still retain control of the asset and depends on a case by case basis if it is worth it economically.

I am calling labor because that is the sentiment I see in the community. Although no one can tell me specifically what the issue is I think it is the general sentiment is against the government in power at the time which is liberal. Any bad decision is 'the establishment's' responsibility and barnett is copping that at the moment.  Any decision made is the governments responsibility and labor has the underdog status as does one-nation of not being judged in that manner.

It would be interesting to see if one nation actually formed a government in the hypothetical of course. I wonder if people would support them as much then. I doubt that alot. People would the blame one-nation as it would now be the establishment and realise that the nature of power is always the same in a party system.

good luck voting.


----------



## pixel (12 March 2017)

Not a bad result. Congrats, Mark! And don't ever forget what you said about *responsibility*!
WA set the template for other elections to come. Even QLD may not yet be a lost cause.
And we can now look especially forward to the next Federal one


----------



## IFocus (12 March 2017)

Massive win for Labor I actually didn't mind Barney he wasn't a rabid ideological right wing nutter like we see in the federal arena and he did govern for all WA.
Mostly he was surrounded by fools in the Liberal party but he still managed to find a way.
Barney did blow the budget would be interesting what percentage is recurrent spending what's building stuff. 

Labor have been handed a poisoned chalice with the debt issue it will not be as easy as Barney had it.

Nice to see the Nats hold up and One Nation fizzle


----------



## drsmith (12 March 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Arguments both ways.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The traffic projections from the 2011 public environmental review were for Roe 8 as a stand alone project whereas the 2014 projections were for Roe 8 as part of the broader Perth Freight Link project.

This and variations in growth projections during the course of resources cycle are more likely to be explanations for the variation in Roe 8 traffic projections than the conspiracy theory outlined in the article above.

The documents referred to in the above also have a benefit/cost analysis from 2012 for Roe 8 which would be based on the earlier, lower traffic projections. This gave Roe 8 a benefit cost ratio of at least 4. This too is notably absent from the Fairfax piece above.


----------



## drsmith (12 March 2017)

IFocus said:


> Nice to see the Nats hold up and One Nation fizzle



The Libs always had their backs to the wall in this campaign but the PHON preference deal was without doubt an unmitigated disaster for them and Malcolm Turnbull's underprepared visit to the state clearly did more harm than good.

Brendon Grylls declaration of war on 6PR on Thursday morning on the Libs costings over royalties for regions was I thought very strange. He may die in his ditch as the member of the WA parliament. 

I voted Liberal but only for Roe 8. It will be an appalling abuse, not only of taxpayers money but also for infrastructure delivery more broadly if the contract for this long planned and much needed project is cancelled.


----------



## pixel (12 March 2017)

Quotable Quotes: I like Adrian Barich's punny comments 
"Daylight Saving Party may get in the upper house too, good for them, they've been working 25/7."
"If Flouride Free get in, they deserve a little plaque." (but his spelling leaves much to be desired)


----------



## Tisme (12 March 2017)

So will the new stadium be named the Barnett Stand?


----------



## pixel (12 March 2017)

Unlikely.
But in the bar, you might be able to order a Barney tumbler.


----------



## drsmith (12 March 2017)

Tisme said:


> So will the new stadium be named the Barnett Stand?



Col's Colosseum.


----------



## Tisme (13 March 2017)

Mathias and Malcolm are unapologetic for wrecking the Hanson vote, by engineering the preference deal between Pauline and the Liberal Party.

They are so pleased with the result they are pushing the same plan onto the next federal election.


----------



## SirRumpole (13 March 2017)

Tisme said:


> They are so pleased with the result they are pushing the same plan onto the next federal election.




Bring it on !

Maybe they can offer to lend Barnaby to the PHON, that will help both of them I reckon.


----------



## sptrawler (13 March 2017)

IFocus said:


> Massive win for Labor I actually didn't mind Barney he wasn't a rabid ideological right wing nutter like we see in the federal arena and he did govern for all WA.
> Mostly he was surrounded by fools in the Liberal party but he still managed to find a way.
> Barney did blow the budget would be interesting what percentage is recurrent spending what's building stuff.
> 
> ...



Fair and reasonable post, IMO, well done Ifocus.
The amount of infrastructure achieved by Barnett, in his 8 years of tenure, is pretty remarkable.
For numerous previous Governments, the finger pointing about the appalling condition, of W.A hospital infrastructure was endless.
Every election, no matter who was in office, the conditions in RPH and Princess Margarets, where rolled out by the opposition of the day.
Beds in corridors, golden staph outbreaks, ambulance ramping etc.
After the elections, the excuses were rolled out, how we couldn't afford to fix it.
Well if Barnett is remembered for anything, it should be the amazing amount of fixing he has done, on infrastructure that was past its used by date 30 years ago.
All I can say is well done Barny, hope McGowan can fill his shoes, IMO it is a big call.


----------



## drsmith (13 March 2017)

sptrawler said:


> All I can say is well done Barny, hope McGowan can fill his shoes, IMO it is a big call.



Telling workers not to turn up to work today as he ramps up the rhetoric over cancelling the Roe 8 contract and this in relation to protester activity illegally disrupting work for that project,



> Speaking to the media on Sunday, newly elected premier Mark McGowan said his government did not want Roe 8 to continue, and he would consider the charges against protesters.




Lots of style and a slick, well funded election campaign but on the substance....... a very big call.

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/w...-dropped-after-labor-win-20170312-guwc4d.html


----------



## sptrawler (13 March 2017)

drsmith said:


> Lots of style and a slick, well funded election campaign but on the substance....... a very big call.
> 
> http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/w...-dropped-after-labor-win-20170312-guwc4d.html




I read on the West Australian website today, the maritime workers union claims McGowan owes them, for the money they poured in to advertising.
I hope it doesn't end up being a Government, hamstrung by owing favours to counter productive ideology, not everyone can get a job in politics.
Most of us have to find a job in the real World, I hope Labor can create them, rather than destroy them.


----------



## sptrawler (13 March 2017)

With regard Roe 8, if McGowan can't see that not completing it is stupid, it will end up like Andrews in Victoria.


----------



## bellenuit (13 March 2017)

sptrawler said:


> With regard Roe 8, if McGowan can't see that not completing it is stupid, it will end up like Andrews in Victoria.




It would be economically stupid not to go ahead with it, but going ahead would be politically stupid. It was a key platform differentiator between Labor and Liberals.


----------



## sptrawler (13 March 2017)

bellenuit said:


> It would be economically stupid not to go ahead with it, but going ahead would be politically stupid. It was a key platform differentiator between Labor and Liberals.



Yes, you're correct, but it will wedge the Labor Government within a short period of time.
The Roe highway stopping at the Kwinana freeway, means all truck transport to Fremantle or Kwinana, has to join the freeway.
This problem is already a problem, Barnett relieved it by adding 2 lanes to the freeway, but population and traffic is increasing.
The truck traffic has to be removed from the commuter traffic, the only way that can be achieved, is to move the truck traffic one step further over from the main commuter traffic.
Blind Freddy can see that.
Unfortunately as usual Labor can't, because of chasing fringe dweller votes, in the end it will hang them. IMO
It will be interesting to see how McGowan deals with the problem, because it won't go away.lol
It's funny I have an old map of Perth, when the gas was going to be brought down from the NW. It shows the Kwinana freeway to Cockburn and shows the interchange down through North Lake to Hampton Road. Then South to Kwinana, that must have been drawn up 30 years ago, like I've said before Governments work on long time frames.
IMO we end up at the same place, it is just about who we give a blazer to and how much integrity that person has.


----------



## SirRumpole (14 March 2017)

bellenuit said:


> It would be economically stupid not to go ahead with it, but going ahead would be politically stupid. It was a key platform differentiator between Labor and Liberals.




Isn't it about time that we de politicised infrastructure again ?

Rudd introduced Infrastructure Australia as an independent body, Abbott politicised it again, probably the worst decision a PM made in recent history.


----------



## Tisme (14 March 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Isn't it about time that we de politicised infrastructure again ?
> 
> Rudd introduced Infrastructure Australia as an independent body, Abbott politicised it again, probably the worst decision a PM made in recent history.




Yes well Tony Abbott didn't get any suggestion of priority from Infrastructure Australia on this one and it appears no one except Tony knows why he thought of it, the East/West link and WestConnex. That's not to say they aren't warranted, but it does beggar the question as to who had influence over him....  developers maybe?

The locals would be more up to speed on the issue, but there are various other concerns apparently:

it was Tony Abbott's idea;
destruction of the Beeliar Wetlands;
caveats that come with the federal monies;
money better spent elsewhere;
and there's always a sector of people who dislike change.


----------



## SirRumpole (14 March 2017)

Tisme said:


> but it does beggar the question as to who had influence over him.... developers maybe?




Roads are more popular with voters than power stations (unless they don't produce power any more) and the Libs are ideologically opposed to public transport, and of course road construction companies donate to the LNP so there are a few good (for the politicians)  reasons why roads get priority.


----------



## sptrawler (14 March 2017)

In my opinion, the best thing to came out of the W.A election, was a clear majority.
At least the Government can get on with their agenda and own it.


----------



## SirRumpole (14 March 2017)

sptrawler said:


> In my opinion, the best thing to came out of the W.A election, was a clear majority.
> At least the Government can get on with their agenda and own it.




Looks like it will be very tight in the Upper House though.


*Current* *Predicted*
WA Labor                                        11 15
Liberal Party                                    16 10
The Nationals                                     5 4
One Nation                                        0 2
Shooters, Fishers, Farmers                2 2
The Greens                                       2 2
Liberal Democrats                              0 1 

On predictions 

Labor + Greens = 17
LNP + ON + SFF = 18

Which means the Lib Dems have the balance and they usually support the Libs.


----------



## sptrawler (14 March 2017)

Oh, my mistake I hadn't seen that, was away at the weekend.


----------



## wayneL (14 March 2017)

pixel said:


> And we can now look especially forward to the next Federal one......



...with dread.


----------



## drsmith (14 March 2017)

Tisme said:


> The locals would be more up to speed on the issue, but there are various other concerns apparently:
> 
> it was Tony Abbott's idea;
> destruction of the Beeliar Wetlands;
> ...



We are.


----------



## drsmith (14 March 2017)

drsmith said:


> Brendon Grylls declaration of war on 6PR on Thursday morning on the Libs costings over royalties for regions was I thought very strange. He may die in his ditch as the member of the WA parliament.



And he has.

He has conceded his seat of Pilbara.


----------



## pixel (14 March 2017)

drsmith said:


> And he has.
> 
> He has conceded his seat of Pilbara.



At least he's stood up for his principles, even against his Eastern States mates. That's to his credit.

But as Barnett found out, politics is a brutal caper. If you insist stubbornly on your preconceptions and fail to include newly evolving facts into your planning, you're a has-been.


----------



## drsmith (14 March 2017)

sptrawler said:


> In my opinion, the best thing to came out of the W.A election, was a clear majority.
> At least the Government can get on with their agenda and own it.



There's an increasing disregard for money before even being sworn in.


> WA Premier-elect Mark McGowan has indicated his new Government will cancel the Roe 8 highway extension whatever the cost, amid claims the state could have to pay as much as $100 million not to build the road.




http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-...cancel-contract-after-wa-election-win/8353086


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## sptrawler (14 March 2017)

That will come back to haunt him. IMO


----------



## pixel (14 March 2017)

drsmith said:


> There's an increasing disregard for money before even being sworn in.
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-...cancel-contract-after-wa-election-win/8353086



The disregard for money and responsible contract negotiation lies squarely on Barnett's shoulders.
MaGowan will be absolutely in his right to blame Emperor Col and his cohorts. To push through and sign the contracts against strong opposition, well aware of the consequences of an adverse election outcome, demonstrates an appalling degree of recklessness and irresponsibility. It was a deliberate attempt to leave the new government a poisoned chalice and a vandalised landscape that's hard to rehabilitate - all under the misguided hubris "I'm still the Premier, and I have the god-given right to do what I want."
It may have been simple incompetence. However, if those contracts were deliberately designed to punish the new government and waste State finances, the signatories should be jailed for malicious damage.


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## drsmith (14 March 2017)

The government intended to sign the Roe 8 contract in December 2015 but was held up by court action from project opponents. That was overturned in July or Aug 2016 and the project contract was signed in in early October 2016, 5 months before the election. All other legal actions against the project by opponents also failed leaving only political opposition and illegal site activity by protesters whom had insufficient public support to stop the work.

A government in only bound by opposition to a project from its political opponents during the caretaker period which in the case of the WA election started on Feb 1 2017.

As for the project itself, it has considerable economic benefit, much more per dollar spent than the EW Link that the Andrews Government cancelled in Victoria. The documents obtained by Alannah MacTiernan under FOI in her actions against Perth Freight Link (of which Roe 8 in a part) contained a 2012 benefit/cost analysis for Roe 8 as a stand alone project. That gave it a BCR of 4 on a project cost a sniff over $800m. The contract signed in October last year was $450m out of a $540m project budget. If the difference has gone into planning and procurement ($90m) and it costs $100m to cancel the construction contract then it will cost $190m or 35% of the project budget to deliver what would undoubtedly be the worlds most expensive firebreak.


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## Tisme (14 March 2017)

pixel said:


> The disregard for money and responsible contract negotiation lies squarely on Barnett's shoulders.
> MaGowan will be absolutely in his right to blame Emperor Col and his cohorts. To push through and sign the contracts against strong opposition, well aware of the consequences of an adverse election outcome, demonstrates an appalling degree of recklessness and irresponsibility. It was a deliberate attempt to leave the new government a poisoned chalice and a vandalised landscape that's hard to rehabilitate - all under the misguided hubris "I'm still the Premier, and I have the god-given right to do what I want."
> It may have been simple incompetence. However, if those contracts were deliberately designed to punish the new government and waste State finances, the signatories should be jailed for malicious damage.




Found this article which seems to question the process and actual costs"

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/w...oe-8-and-the-alternative-20170202-gu4eke.html

Has Malcolm rung the new Premier with congratulations yet?


----------



## OmegaTrader (14 March 2017)

pixel said:


> Not a bad result. Congrats, Mark! And don't ever forget what you said about *responsibility*!
> WA set the template for other elections to come. Even QLD may not yet be a lost cause.
> And we can now look especially forward to the next Federal one





What has changed???

Labor will probably overspend more than liberal will overspend, metronet + the rest waste and budget will get worse.

The only difference is western power will not be partially privatised.
A bit like selling one of your cars to pay for your credit card bill.

Business as usual. The honeymoon will be over as soon as it begun. 

One nation didn't do as well as I thought But balance of power could be shared by one nation and micros + greens in upper house , so partly right. 

A balance of power scenario could make it really hard to pass laws.

Labor won as everyone expected. 

If labor cuts spending overall because of management, not improving economic conditions which would be good, I would be even happier.


Seems like business as usual for me.


----------



## sptrawler (14 March 2017)

pixel said:


> The disregard for money and responsible contract negotiation lies squarely on Barnett's shoulders.
> MaGowan will be absolutely in his right to blame Emperor Col and his cohorts. To push through and sign the contracts against strong opposition, well aware of the consequences of an adverse election outcome, demonstrates an appalling degree of recklessness and irresponsibility. It was a deliberate attempt to leave the new government a poisoned chalice and a vandalised landscape that's hard to rehabilitate - all under the misguided hubris "I'm still the Premier, and I have the god-given right to do what I want."
> It may have been simple incompetence. However, if those contracts were deliberately designed to punish the new government and waste State finances, the signatories should be jailed for malicious damage.



Jeez pixel, I always thought you were level headed and objective, you seem to be when discussing shares and investment.
The strong opposition you talk about ,were a few people from North Lake, and the rent a crowd.
The Roe 8 extension has to go ahead, or traffic on the Kwinana freeway, will be at a standstill  in 5 years.
Even if the Kwinana container terminal goes ahead, which I doubt, because even though McGowan talked it up he knows that a landback wharf will kill Cockburn sound.
That will be a bigger issue for the Greenies, than the Beeliar wetlands, that dry up in summer.
The whole thing has been a ludicrous fiasco, which will in the end have to be undone, it is just a crazy illogical protest.
Why not demand that the highway between North Lake and Bibra Lake, is built on pylons, jeez they could even cover it with a mesh, if there is a worry about bird strikes.
But to have all the pollution from the trucks on Roe highway, joining the Kwinana freeway at a crawl, is just dumb. Let alone the loss of productivity, which Labor no doubt knows, it is all macarbre.


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## pixel (15 March 2017)

sptrawler said:


> Jeez pixel, I always thought you were level headed and objective, you seem to be when discussing shares and investment.
> The strong opposition you talk about ,were a few people from North Lake, and the rent a crowd.
> The Roe 8 extension has to go ahead, or traffic on the Kwinana freeway, will be at a standstill  in 5 years.
> Even if the Kwinana container terminal goes ahead, which I doubt, because even though McGowan talked it up he knows that a landback wharf will kill Cockburn sound.
> ...



It's not so much the wetlands I worry about. In an urban sprawl, you have to cut through and sacrifice some nature reserves. The thing that gets me angry us CB's arrogance that he displayed on so many occasions: Starting with the imperial palace he created for himself. The Elizabeth Quay naming fiasko that went against the grain of every professed Republican. And the heavyhandedness he displayed in dealing with critics, Press, and everybody who dared question his judgment.
On that background, I have lost all faith and suspect the justification presented for Roe 8 is no more than a whitewash: "Shut up and listen. This is what I want to do."
I have read the arguments pro and con; there is no doubt in my mind that Fremantle Port is bursting at the seams - I've been living in the area for 30 years and noticed the differences and problems. Whether it can keep up for another 5 years or 15 is a moot point. In the not too distant future, a new port is needed - and when that comes online, Roe 8 will be an expensive white elephant.
... and just to maintain the balance: I am not convinced that McGowan has all the answers yet. Hence my comment reminding him of his responsibility. Those were his own words, so I'll hold him to it.


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## Tisme (15 March 2017)

You guys in the west have no idea what persistent gridlock is.

In Brisbane trucks have been forced onto toll ring road transport corridors for quite some time. 

There is road infrastructure, bridges, tunnels, giant overpasses, big freeway systems that would compete with anywhere in the world and yet the b$stards who plan still can't get the traffic free flowing most of the morning and from 2pm on in the arvo.

It seems that the more lanes and routes that are added the more people get out in their vehicles, the longer distances they drive and the greater scope of doting parents for school choices.

Motorists and drivers have resorted to assaulting and murdering other motorists at junctions like this:
https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Projects/Name/P/Pacific-Motorway-Upgrade-M1-M3-Gateway-merge


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## drsmith (15 March 2017)

pixel said:


> On that background, I have lost all faith and suspect the justification presented for Roe 8 is no more than a whitewash: "Shut up and listen. This is what I want to do."
> I have read the arguments pro and con; there is no doubt in my mind that Fremantle Port is bursting at the seams - I've been living in the area for 30 years and noticed the differences and problems. Whether it can keep up for another 5 years or 15 is a moot point. In the not too distant future, a new port is needed - and when that comes online, Roe 8 will be an expensive white elephant.



Not sure what you've been reading.

Roe 8 is about much more than the Freo Port. It would also service a future Outer Harbour and in any case, container freight on trucks is a small proportion of the overall traffic that would use it.

The latter is the problem with the southern route alternative via Tonkin Highway and Rowley Road or Stock/Anketell Roads to the Outer Harbour. It will be a long time before general traffic is sufficient to justify an expressway standard road heading west from Tonkin there and if it ever does (not presently planned by 2050), it will be an urban area like the present Roe 8 corridor west of North Lake Road. When that time comes, the protesters will be down there with the same beefs.


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## drsmith (15 March 2017)

sptrawler said:


> But to have all the pollution from the trucks on Roe highway, joining the Kwinana freeway at a crawl, is just dumb. Let alone the loss of productivity, which Labor no doubt knows, it is all macarbre.



The following map shows the Cockburn City's major road works. Bearing in mind the City's opposition to Roe 8, item 54 on the map takes the cake.

http://www.cockburn.wa.gov.au/docum...alMajorRoadworks-2016-2030-v08-Feb2017-A3.pdf

Construction of the original carriageway for that section of Farrington Road in 1984 was not without controversy at the time.


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## drsmith (28 May 2017)

After an unsuccessful attempt by the former Barnett government, the idea of BHP and RIO paying out their annual $0.25/tonne lease rental for iron ore as a lump sum has been raised again,

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/iron-ore-cash-out-ng-b88488826z

BHP and RIO may consider $4bn a bit steep for something that annually costs a sniff more than $120m pa. Exemption from inclusion in GST distribution calculations for any lump sum is another interesting aspect.


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## sptrawler (29 May 2017)

drsmith said:


> After an unsuccessful attempt by the former Barnett government, the idea of BHP and RIO paying out their annual $0.25/tonne lease rental for iron ore as a lump sum has been raised again,
> 
> https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/iron-ore-cash-out-ng-b88488826z
> 
> BHP and RIO may consider $4bn a bit steep for something that annually costs a sniff more than $120m pa. Exemption from inclusion in GST distribution calculations for any lump sum is another interesting aspect.




This just highlights how stupid and self serving our politicians are, Labor and the unions bashed the idea, when in opposition, now they are in office they want it.
Brendan Grylls idea of an increase /ton is much smarter, but Labor bashed both ideas, now they want the easy one.
Is there any wonder Australia's living standard is going down the toilet, when politicians can't be honest, about what is best for Australia.
God help us, because I doubt the politicians can.


----------



## sptrawler (29 May 2017)

pixel said:


> It's not so much the wetlands I worry about. In an urban sprawl, you have to cut through and sacrifice some nature reserves. The thing that gets me angry us CB's arrogance that he displayed on so many occasions: Starting with the imperial palace he created for himself. The Elizabeth Quay naming fiasko that went against the grain of every professed Republican. And the heavyhandedness he displayed in dealing with critics, Press, and everybody who dared question his judgment.
> On that background, I have lost all faith and suspect the justification presented for Roe 8 is no more than a whitewash: "Shut up and listen. This is what I want to do."
> I have read the arguments pro and con; there is no doubt in my mind that Fremantle Port is bursting at the seams - I've been living in the area for 30 years and noticed the differences and problems. Whether it can keep up for another 5 years or 15 is a moot point. In the not too distant future, a new port is needed - and when that comes online, Roe 8 will be an expensive white elephant.
> ... and just to maintain the balance: I am not convinced that McGowan has all the answers yet. Hence my comment reminding him of his responsibility. Those were his own words, so I'll hold him to it.




I agree with your frustration pixel, but what I find annoying, is the counter productive rhetoric shoved in our faces on t.v.
The Roe 8 has to go ahead, there has to be a ring road around Perth CBD, it is imperative as Perth grows.
To have bottle necks at T junctions (Freeway), will in the end, just choke the City.
There has to be a free flowing traffic loop without traffic lights, that can enable vehicle movement around the City, rather than through it.
The Roe highway, Tonkin Highway, Reid highway and West Coast highway have to connect. Also as drsmith says, the Roe connects to the Cockburn new harbour when it's built.
Then a loop will be built through Rowley Road and so on all the way to Bunbury eventually.
Bunbury is now getting another ring road further out, as we speak.

With regard Barnett, you either love him or hate him, I'm a bit of the former.
The reason being, I'm sick of Hospitals being promised every election, yet non ever came.
Roads being promised yet never happened, promises to make Perth more vibrant, rather than a Country town.
Well like it or not Barnett has got the ball rolling, no longer is the front page of the "West", saying beds in RPH corridors a disgrace.
The Freeway South widening has happened, despite the under used rail line taking up most of the space.
The access to the airport is brilliant.
With regard Victoria Quay, well I haven't been there, but I do think Perth needs to develop its foreshore, to a lively vibrant space.
When you go to a City, most are on rivers or the ocean, and most have made the most of the amenity. If you want a quite non vibrant place we have plenty down South.
Venice gets 20 million tourists a year, Australia gets about 9 million, Venice is the size of Rottnest.
Sensosa gets about 20 million tourists a year, about 0.6 million visit Rottnest.
I'm not saying it's all about tourism, but we can't stay in a time warp and think that our living standards will stay the same.
It's pretty simple logics, we have to adapt we have to change, or our kids will not enjoy the life we have.IMO
My rant for the year, I'm a bit over it really, banging your head against walls eventually hurts.lol


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## sptrawler (25 July 2017)

sptrawler said:


> This just highlights how stupid and self serving our politicians are, Labor and the unions bashed the idea, when in opposition, now they are in office they want it.
> Brendan Grylls idea of an increase /ton is much smarter, but Labor bashed both ideas, now they want the easy one.
> Is there any wonder Australia's living standard is going down the toilet, when politicians can't be honest, about what is best for Australia.
> God help us, because I doubt the politicians can.




Well I see the Phillipines, have woken up to the mining scam.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-philippines-duterte-mining-idUSKBN1A90XD

The following extract seems to mirror our path.


The Philippines is the world's biggest supplier of nickel ore and also among the top producers of copper and gold. However, the sector contributes less than 1 percent to the country's economy, based on data from the Mines and Geosciences Bureau.


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## sptrawler (26 July 2017)

Not many jobs for West Australians here.

https://thewest.com.au/business/oil...ating-gas-goliath-arrives-in-wa-ng-b88547909z

I wonder how much money, Australia will make from the gas exported?
Very little is my guess, when the gas is gone, the ship moves on. lol

The clever Country, I think not.
Maybe the Holden factory can be re tooled, to produce tuk tuk's.


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## drsmith (26 July 2017)

It's going to be an interesting budget.


> A South Australian-style bank tax is firming as a possibility for WA with Premier Mark McGowan confirming it is under consideration weeks out from his Government's first budget.
> 
> Mr McGowan has also not ruled out increases to mining royalty rates as his Government attempts to grapple with mounting debt and multi-billion-dollar deficits.




http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-25/wa-government-mulls-sa-style-bank-tax/8743024


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## sptrawler (2 November 2017)

Well now Labor come under the spotlight in W.A.
The only person, who had a clue on how to fix the budget, was Brendon Grylls, and he was chucked out.lol
Now McGowan is under the spotlight, the problem is he said Grylls was a goose for suggesting an increase in iron ore royalties and he said Barnett was a goose for complaining about the GST rip off.
Funny how things come back to bite you on the ar$e.

https://thewest.com.au/opinion/prem...d-wolf-over-gold-royalties-hike-ng-b88604398z


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## sptrawler (11 December 2017)

Labor getting the job done in W.A, can't believe how quiet it is, while the slash and burn goes on.
I have to give them credit, they are getting away with a lot more, than the Libs ever would.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-...goes-quiet-amid-wa-education-jobs-row/9242396


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## bellenuit (11 December 2017)

sptrawler said:


> Labor getting the job done in W.A, can't believe how quiet it is, while the slash and burn goes on.
> I have to give them credit, they are getting away with a lot more, than the Libs ever would.
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-...goes-quiet-amid-wa-education-jobs-row/9242396




Some of my mates on Facebook who had been forewarning of slashing of pay and jobs should the LNP be returned, have fallen completely silent on those very things been done by Labor in spite of Labor's promises.


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## sptrawler (12 December 2017)

bellenuit said:


> Some of my mates on Facebook who had been forewarning of slashing of pay and jobs should the LNP be returned, have fallen completely silent on those very things been done by Labor in spite of Labor's promises.




Yep, it is really funny, when Labor are in, the union tell you to bend over the barrel and take it.

Don't know why I keep telling them, vote LNP, then the union will fight for you. LOL

It just falls on deaf ears, obviously they don't think past the next beer. lol

Must admit, it took me 20 years, to work it out. I'm no genious.


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## sptrawler (18 December 2017)

At last the union has got the W.A police over the barrel, for the Labor Party, don't you just love it.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-...ry-for-wa-government-as-union-relents/9269970


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## sptrawler (18 December 2017)

Hope all those who believed Labor, when they said at the last election, "they were the only ones who could keep the price of electricity down", can afford the price rises.

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/wa-p...-are-cut-to-repair-state-budget-ng-b88693231z

Labor looking after the battler, I am not hearing any Labor voters screaming nor seeing the AMWU marching on Parliament, it's is all amazingly quiet.
Like I've said before, if you want to get through nasty price rises that hurt the poor, and want to put a clamp on pay rises, vote Labor.


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## Smurf1976 (18 December 2017)

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/wa-p...-are-cut-to-repair-state-budget-ng-b88693231z



> This is due to higher gas prices and a switch in the generation mix from gas to coal, which results in higher capital costs but lower fuel costs,” it said




If a capital cost has been incurred then it ought to be rather easy to spot exactly where since a new coal-fired power station would be rather hard to hide even in a place as big as WA.

Kwinana A = closed
Kwinana C = closed
Muja A & B = closed / closing

Muja C = still running but not exactly new (1981)
Muja D = still running and has been since 1985 (though was upgraded a few years ago)
Collie = still running as it has been since 1999
Bluewaters 1 = Still running as it has since 2009
Bluewaters 2 - Still running as it has since 2009

So I give up. Where exactly have the clever folk in WA managed to hide the coal-fired power station into which this costly capital investment has been made?

Or is paying a security guard to stand outside the old South Fremantle power station (closed mid-1980's) to keep vandals out somehow counted as a capital cost of generation in 2017?

Or did they mean an arts project or whatever's being done with East Perth PS these days? Half the people living in Perth weren't even born last time that ran but I suppose someone could do some creative accounting somehow.

Or maybe there's no capital investment at all, just running what they already had, and it's just someone looking to bring some money in.......


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## sptrawler (18 December 2017)

Like you say, it is all a bit weird, they have shut down generating plant that can run on any fuel. Then say there is a capital cost with coal, weird, when no plant is being built.
What is more weird, is the coal miners in collie have been on a 17week strike, because their wages have been cut by 40%.
https://thewest.com.au/business/mining/collie-coal-strike-could-spill-into-new-year-ng-b88692755z

You would think the Labor Government would jump in and say "fair go". As if.


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## sptrawler (20 December 2017)

Now it's everyone else's fault, the reality of losing 70% of your revenue, while trying to get money out of mining companies, hits home for W.A Labor.
Maybe they should have been more supportive of Barnett, when he was constantly complaining about the loss of GST revenue, while still having to provide more infrastructure to support the mining boom and population influx.

https://thewest.com.au/business/eco...game-in-265m-wa-deficit-blowout-ng-b88696278z

Like I said years ago, the president of one of the big unions, who happened to be my boss, said Barnett was the only one with any brains.

I guess time will tell.


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## sptrawler (21 December 2017)

Another heads up, with regard Barnett, sooner or later the water pipe from the North of W.A to the South has to happen.
Water in Perth, is becoming a major issue, two desal plants and we need more.
They use a lot of energy.
They said Barnett was an idiot when he promoted it, then it would have cost $9billion.
Wait and see what it costs, when we have to put it in. lol


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## sptrawler (26 December 2017)

bellenuit said:


> Some of my mates on Facebook who had been forewarning of slashing of pay and jobs should the LNP be returned, have fallen completely silent on those very things been done by Labor in spite of Labor's promises.




It looks like the teachers, are going to be the next to cop a thrashing, from the Labor Government and the union.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-26/wa-government-puts-level-3-teaching-program-on-hold/9280834


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## drsmith (29 December 2017)

The Labor government can do what it likes judging by the prospects the Libs give themselves of winning the next election.


> *Strutt: *So you've stabilised the team, you've got them focused, as you say, what's the priority for 2018?
> 
> *Nahan: *Continue to hold [the Government] to account and, as I said, I think they are going to be exposed on the fiscal position. Second, start developing policies that not only contrast with Labor but do things that Labor can't and won't do. And three, work with our constituencies and the lay party not only to bring them back into the party, but also to diligently look for new candidates to sit in the various between five to eight seats that we can legitimately consider winning at the next election.




http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-...one-with-opposition-leader-mike-nahan/9283340


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## sptrawler (1 January 2018)

drsmith said:


> The Labor government can do what it likes judging by the prospects the Libs give themselves of winning the next election.
> 
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-...one-with-opposition-leader-mike-nahan/9283340




That Mike Nahan is a goose IMO, it just gives credibility to what Barnett said, when he stated he lost ,most of his best talent after the previous election.

It will be a long time before the Libs do anything, Nahan doesn't seem to jell, doesn't come across as having a clue as to the Aust psyche.


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## sptrawler (19 February 2018)

Well as we've said Labor gets more reform done, without the union backlash.

https://thewest.com.au/opinion/paul...competition-to-was-power-sector-ng-b88747250z

They doubled the service charge to householders, which hurt those who could "least afford it".
Now they want to reduce cross subsidy to country areas.
Funny that Barnett was against it all, but he was seen as the bad guy, it is great the bad guys have been elected in.
Now we can get on with stiffing the plebs. lol
When Liberal suggest it, it is hurting those who can least afford it.
When Labor do it, it is they vote for us anyway, so who cares. IMO


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## sptrawler (28 February 2018)

The newly elected Labor Government, has had a field day bagging, the outgoing Liberal Government.
Can't wait to see how this witch hunt plays out, dumb tactic by Labor, maybe childlike enthusiasm? Time will tell.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-...d-mcgowan-government/9474072?section=analysis

All Labor did pre election, was bag Barnett for moaning about GST cut, all they've done post election is moan about the same thing.


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## drsmith (28 February 2018)

Paul Murray has penned a piece for The West concentrating on Royalties for Regions and the government's response to that specifically.

https://thewest.com.au/opinion/opin...er-royalties-for-regions-future-ng-b88758293z

hypothecating 25 per cent of the State’s royalty earnings for RfR was never a good idea when the state effectively gets 10% after GST redistribution.


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## Tisme (28 February 2018)

sptrawler said:


> The newly elected Labor Government, has had a field day bagging, the outgoing Liberal Government.
> .





Learned from Federal Liberals ? They still harp on about Labs and Billy, even though they have been in govt for quite some time,


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## sptrawler (25 June 2018)

Well the first real test for McGowan in W.A, hasn't gone too well, a 9% swing against Labor.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-24/no-simple-explanation-for-shock-darling-range-result/9903984


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## Tisme (25 June 2018)

sptrawler said:


> Well the first real test for McGowan in W.A, hasn't gone too well, a 9% swing against Labor.
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-24/no-simple-explanation-for-shock-darling-range-result/9903984




Maybe they confused Tania with her federal namesake? 

So what's the general feeling towards his govt?


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## sptrawler (25 June 2018)

Tisme said:


> Maybe they confused Tania with her federal namesake?
> 
> So what's the general feeling towards his govt?




I don't think the doubling of the electricity supply charge, was well received.

But having said that, the opposition, is pretty insipid. IMO

So with no major dramas, I would say, they will definitely get a second term.


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## IFocus (26 June 2018)

This state labor government looks more like a state Liberal government in most parts without the massive spending.

Barnett was pretty middle of the road for a Lib he said he would govern for all and he pretty much did (I know stange) so generally not much has changed to present day, perhaps a little more spending on transport.

Maybe Sptrawer can think of other changes.


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## sptrawler (26 June 2018)

IFocus said:


> This state labor government looks more like a state Liberal government in most parts without the massive spending.
> 
> Barnett was pretty middle of the road for a Lib he said he would govern for all and he pretty much did (I know stange) so generally not much has changed to present day, perhaps a little more spending on transport.
> 
> Maybe Sptrawer can think of other changes.




You hit it pretty well on the head, McGowan seems to treading carefully which is good. 
He seems to be getting a lot more support, for W.A's shocking GST deal, than Barnett ever got. Which is also good.
If he can get a decent re distribution, we may see W.A out of the doldrums.
I've been happy with McGowan, so far.


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## Humid (26 June 2018)

Any royalties for regions building unsustainable infrastructure in $hitholes


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## sptrawler (26 June 2018)

Humid said:


> Any royalties for regions building unsustainable infrastructure in $hitholes




No but plenty of $hitholes, in unsustainable infrastructure buildings.


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## sptrawler (27 June 2018)

IFocus said:


> This state labor government looks more like a state Liberal government in most parts without the massive spending.
> 
> Barnett was pretty middle of the road for a Lib he said he would govern for all and he pretty much did (I know stange) so generally not much has changed to present day, perhaps a little more spending on transport.
> 
> Maybe Sptrawer can think of other changes.




McGowan seems to be achieving privatisation by stealth, but what has to be done, has to be done.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-...d-to-pay-child-sex-abuse-compensation/9914908

He seems to be heading a steady course, which is good, no pun intended.

He certainly doesn't need to worry about building hospitals, or fixing roads, at this point.
This is the problem Nahan has, he was so busy trying to distance himself from Barnett and his decisions, that he can't take any credit for them now.
Like I said, the opposition is insipid.


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## sptrawler (3 July 2018)

IFocus said:


> This state labor government looks more like a state Liberal government in most parts without the massive spending.
> 
> Barnett was pretty middle of the road for a Lib he said he would govern for all and he pretty much did (I know stange) so generally not much has changed to present day, perhaps a little more spending on transport.
> 
> Maybe Sptrawer can think of other changes.




Another positive for McGowan, is the bridge he is building at the freeway end of the Roe Highway, he hasn't compromised his stance on the  wetlands. 
But he hasn't blown the whole thing up, as Andrews in Victoria did, with the East/West link.

It is one thing to have a political stance, but to throw away taxpayers money, to try and validate your position is unforgivable. IMO

I think McGowan may prove to be a very good Premier, time will tell.


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## Smurf1976 (3 July 2018)

sptrawler said:


> McGowan seems to be achieving privatisation by stealth, but what has to be done, has to be done.



If they're selling the agency that keeps track of property titles then that's really scraping the bottom of the barrel in a "cupboard is just about bare" way in my view.

About the only thing below that would would be privatising the Police or outsourcing the core functions of Treasury. It's a pretty basic function of government after all.


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## sptrawler (5 July 2018)

Life is funny, Barnett was screaming for a change to the GST distribution for years, it fell on deaf ears. Now all of a sudden it happens, obviously the fear of losing an election was required, or McGowan managed to pull a lever that Barnett couldn't find.

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/trea...nveil-47-billion-gst-fix-for-wa-ng-b88885958z


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## sptrawler (6 July 2018)

Well at least the 'West Australian' newspaper ran the article on Barnett, it is true everyone said he was just a whinger about the GST. 
Then McGowan copped the 'GST bunny' and realised the impossible situation.

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/form...vindicated-by-new-gst-blueprint-ng-b88887181z


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## sptrawler (21 November 2018)

Interesting article today.

https://thewest.com.au/news/rottnes...d-staff-leave-with-big-payouts-ng-b881016437z

The part I found really enlightening was:

_Mr Wyatt announced in September last year that he wanted 3000 “voluntary separations” at a cost of $300 million. He has said that the reduction in public-sector jobs would save taxpayers $1 billion over four years_.

I thought Labor always fought for Government services and fought against the job loses?

I guess you can't believe everything they tell you.


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