# General cryptocurrency market discussion



## over9k (18 May 2021)

RIOT has been like trying to catch a falling knife over the last month: 




It has not been a buy the dip, it's been a buy the plummet, flog on the rebound, and then wait for the next plummet five times and counting now. 

If it runs tonight, that'll make it 6.


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## over9k (19 May 2021)

aaaaaand today makes it six: 




It even opened well into the red. Amazing.


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## peter2 (19 May 2021)

re. *RIOT* chart. The sixth rally has got something that's not there in the prior five rallies.  A higher low.


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## over9k (19 May 2021)

Yes, I agree that we might have found a bottom peter. As for what it will do from said bottom is another question though. It's literally been on one day flips so we'll see what happens tomorrow.

It does look like it might (might) have found a new resistance level though:




As for support, that's a whole 'nother question entirely.

If it follows a wedge pattern from here, this is how it will look: 




But I think it pretty obvious that I don't trust any part of this with this thing.


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## ducati916 (19 May 2021)

peter2 said:


> re. *RIOT* chart. The sixth rally has got something that's not there in the prior five rallies.  A higher low.




Re. RIOT, I would argue simply short covering and an entry point for new short positions. The price structure is badly broken atm. I would argue next stop $17.

jog on
duc


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## Garpal Gumnut (19 May 2021)

Another aspect of crypto that worries me is that it is stored on computers or in the cloud. Could it be subject to a massive attack by Hackers ?

Also my old friend John Quiggin just posted this on the internets on a site called Twitter. 
	

		
			
		

		
	








So if the bad guys and the good guys gang up on you, where do you go?

gg


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## Dark1975 (19 May 2021)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Another aspect of crypto that worries me is that it is stored on computers or in the cloud. Could it be subject to a massive attack by Hackers ?
> 
> Also my old friend John Quiggin just posted this on the internets on a site called Twitter.
> 
> ...



You might want to research before you post bad info !! 
Blockchain was created for better security, And that's why the future is blockchain ..
In short it was created to secure networks while decentralised and transparent.. the mathematical formula is quiet outstanding !!


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## over9k (19 May 2021)

Ok guys I reckon I'll buy a couple grand worth of riot today & see if I can flog it same day just for S&G's. I'll post results. Expect hilarity to ensue.


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## over9k (19 May 2021)

Simple example of contagion, check this correlation out: 




Going by eye, probably around 0.8 TSLA and 2.0 RIOT.


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## waterbottle (19 May 2021)

over9k said:


> Simple example of contagion, check this correlation out:
> 
> View attachment 124524
> 
> ...



The contagion risk isn't to other coins... It's to equities, commodities, futures etc.... 20% of 1.7T just got wiped in 24hrs holeeeeeee f.......


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## over9k (19 May 2021)

I was just trying to show gumnut a couple of simple examples waterbottle


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## Trendnomics (19 May 2021)

🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿


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## waterbottle (19 May 2021)

over9k said:


> I was just trying to show gumnut a couple of simple examples waterbottle



Please play safe, there will be slot of people who will be in a bad mental state once this settles. Also, post your day trades


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## waterbottle (19 May 2021)

Coinmarketcap is down. Reports that coinbase, Gemini and crypto.com are also down. Smells like trouble...


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## qldfrog (19 May 2021)

waterbottle said:


> Please play safe, there will be slot of people who will be in a bad mental state once this settles. Also, post your day trades



Just checked today all cash .had a last conditional buy then sell trigerred yesterday on xrp but out nicely
All good.i kept a bit of btc and do not intend to sell or trade it


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## Joules MM1 (19 May 2021)

BTO at 30k btc/xbt








						TradingView Chart
					






					www.tradingview.com
				




ticked a lot of boxes for a low (AxC at 161.8%) and tipped the H&S shoulders 100% level
whales gulping


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## qldfrog (19 May 2021)

waterbottle said:


> Coinmarketcap is down. Reports that coinbase, Gemini and crypto.com are also down. Smells like trouble...



Hum equivalent to a bank rush maybe


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## moXJO (20 May 2021)

Too much bad news in one week. I missed out on a quick trade on SOL. Hopefully everything pumps down and can assess some baggers.

Can we call this the "Elon Crash of 21".
That grifter douche annoys me


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## waterbottle (20 May 2021)

Perfect example of irrational exuberance and tulip mania


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## Trendnomics (20 May 2021)

moXJO said:


> Too much bad news in one week. I missed out on a quick trade on SOL. Hopefully everything pumps down and can assess some baggers.
> 
> Can we call this the "Elon Crash of 21".
> That grifter douche annoys me



If a couple of tweets from one man, can derail the decentralized currency of the future, then perhaps....................


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## Garpal Gumnut (20 May 2021)

waterbottle said:


> Please play safe, there will be slot of people who will be in a bad mental state once this settles. Also, post your day trades



Perhaps ASF should post the emergency phone numbers like they do in the SMH and ABC when there is bad news. 

gg


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## over9k (20 May 2021)

Sorry guys, I didn't get any RIOT, I couldn't resist grabbing some NRGU on an 11% drop: 




FWIW I would have had an order in for RIOT at 22.01 so it would have executed if I had any extra cash left to deploy. 


On a related contagion note, it seems that this bust has made its way out into the semiconductor industry. Microchips have been absolutely slammed by a major shortage lately and it seems that this crypto bust has the market thinking that's going to mean less demand for chips to mine bitcoin et al and so SOXL is now on a major climbout on a belief that chip capacity might be able to be diverted to much more profitable chip manufacturing: 




I mean we'll see from here but this is quite a welcome surprise so far.


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## over9k (20 May 2021)

For anyone wondering, it would have been a bit over $2600 (120 shares) at $22.01, so: 

$22.01*120=$2641 

$23.70*120=$2844 

Fees of $20 per trade 

2844-2641-40=$163 

Would've been a nice scalp, so let's hope NRGU works out for me >_>


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## moXJO (20 May 2021)

Trendnomics said:


> If a couple of tweets from one man, can derail the decentralized currency of the future, then perhaps....................



The guy just bugs me. Be good to see him eat the wrath of blame after running his mouth.

Dude, crypto is solid. At least that's what all the tiktokkers say. 

But it had more to do with China fears. Korea saw the start of the downturn back in 2017. But I'm sure that was linked to some tether scam.


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## Dark1975 (20 May 2021)

Well it was a bloodbath, I think we have found a bottom..
i held Xrp through the morning 20% down atm.. Well i am holding long term.
Fear and panic was at a all time high..
Was massive volatility during the night.
If you get a chance to look at the chart  polygon!! Interesting swings during volatility  - 70 -*) % gains ( good for day trading)


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## over9k (20 May 2021)

Gee, I wonder why there was a rebound? 




I just have NO idea.


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## moXJO (20 May 2021)

Rumours China is going to release info to drop market. Apparently going to sell into the news to drop it hard then start buying during panic


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## basilio (20 May 2021)

My biggest concern about the  gyrations and crashes in the cryptocurrencies markets is the potential effect on the banking systems.

IMV at some stage the  loans, losses and various derivatives taken with these plays will wash through the banks. I'd be certain they have an exposure as players, funders or holders.  If there is a collapse in the crypto market I  can't see how banks won't be taking some very big hits. 

--------------
Excellent from BBC in post 912


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## moXJO (20 May 2021)

This thing can go down more. Everyone was in. Through a stroke of luck(and laziness) I am only holding matic and still up 3x for the moment. Heavy on some nfts but I'll have to check the market. They held up yesterday.

My biggest loss is losing 2-10000x bagger trades
It was the trading of a lifetime. Hope people will be sitting at the table after this.


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## sptrawler (20 May 2021)

basilio said:


> My biggest concern about the  gyrations and crashes in the cryptocurrencies markets is the potential effect on the banking systems.
> 
> IMV at some stage the  loans, losses and various derivatives taken with these plays will wash through the banks. I'd be certain they have an exposure as players, funders or holders.  If there is a collapse in the crypto market I  can't see how banks won't be taking some very big hits.
> 
> ...



The good thing for the banks will be, the traders would have had to have put up solid collateral, to borrow money for speculative trading. So the old story of losing your shirt, may well be losing your house, at a fraction of its value?
There may be some exposure to second tier lenders, but again that will end up in tears for the punters also, it will be interesting to watch though Bas.
China seems to be the first Government to prick the coin bubble, probably because they want to launch their own digital currency, my guess is this may be the catalyst for the U.S to start moving, interesting times.
Just my thoughts, which on a lot of occasions are completely wrong. 😂


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## moXJO (20 May 2021)

This guy was on point last week. (Thread)


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## waterbottle (20 May 2021)

moXJO said:


> This thing can go down more. Everyone was in. Through a stroke of luck(and laziness) I am only holding matic and still up 3x for the moment. Heavy on some nfts but I'll have to check the market. They held up yesterday.
> 
> My biggest loss is losing 2-10000x bagger trades
> It was the trading of a lifetime. Hope people will be sitting at the table after this.




Chin up mate, opportunities come and go


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## waterbottle (20 May 2021)

moXJO said:


> Rumours China is going to release info to drop market. Apparently going to sell into the news to drop it hard then start buying during panic



Any evidence for this?


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## moXJO (20 May 2021)

waterbottle said:


> Chin up mate, opportunities come and go



It's a pain in-between researching the next multibag. Crypto still has legs for the moment on some short trades

Oh the pain though WB. People literally throwing their money at digital nothing. I was rolling large the future was bright.


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## moXJO (20 May 2021)

waterbottle said:


> Any evidence for this?



Sounds like a 4chan conspiracy. I'd say its just capitulation between yank and Asian markets trying to out do one another in how much the can sell for. It was a bad news week as far as crypto is concerned. 

Rekt is the word for 2021.


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## Joules MM1 (20 May 2021)

Joules MM1 said:


> BTO at 30k btc/xbt
> 
> 
> 
> ...




expanding on the buy at the low and the reasons the r/r is/are good at the low end of this zone


			https://s3.tradingview.com/snapshots/g/gP2xkFX6.png
		

  *edited, this is the correct update

all technical waffle free


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## Dark1975 (20 May 2021)

Now for retail investors : the Prestige

Wont explain..its not elliots wave ..nor fab count ..

Do your masters in finance and they teach you Richard d/ Wyckoff 

Take a look at chart below and be amazed ...lol ..lifting the curtain ..

Distribution schematics #1

I guess i thought i had two months left on bull run.. but the institutions played this card a bit early but u can see the set up..

And how magically all the news came together at once ...# Manipulation for retail investors..GG

P.S : Sow in phase should be placed at 55k btc was rushing..


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## qldfrog (20 May 2021)

Luckily, i avoided the crypos volatility and my gold miner ARV went down 40% today.
My sell yesterday was cancelled by the trading stop then missedvthe open..so 40% fall in the day i never ever had such a hit with cryptos.just saying.
Got 2/3 of money back to cba this early morning.if cryptos collapse, so will exchanges?


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## waterbottle (20 May 2021)

qldfrog said:


> Luckily, i avoided the crypos volatility and my gold miner ARV went down 40% today.
> My sell yesterday was cancelled by the trading stop then missedvthe open..so 40% fall in the day i never ever had such a hit with cryptos.just saying.
> Got 2/3 of money back to cba this early morning.if cryptos collapse, so will exchanges?



As in the crypto exchanges? Possibly. Looks of uproar on Reddit about buyers having been locked out of their crypto brokers so if the fall continues then it may be the end for some if they continue to lock it their clients. 
Unfortunately this story of behaviour always happens - it has happened with equities and has happened with FX in the past (I remember FXCM getting flogged when the Swiss implemented negative rates and traders couldnt adjust their positions).


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## qldfrog (20 May 2021)

waterbottle said:


> As in the crypto exchanges? Possibly. Looks of uproar on Reddit about buyers having been locked out of their crypto brokers so if the fall continues then it may be the end for some if they continue to lock it their clients.
> Unfortunately this story of behaviour always happens - it has happened with equities and has happened with FX in the past (I remember FXCM getting flogged when the Swiss implemented negative rates and traders couldnt adjust their positions).



Yes crypto exchanges: for me:  btc market;
So far very good but if noone trade, the business model collapses, also their commission is a percentage of the crypto.
If they played the up trend and kept these as crypto not cash, non only is the commision drying up but there is a ridk that previous income vanish as well..i would bet it will happen for some exchanges


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## Garpal Gumnut (20 May 2021)

qldfrog said:


> Yes crypto exchanges: for me:  btc market;
> So far very good but if noone trade, the business model collapses, also their commission is a percentage of the crypto.
> If they played the up trend and kept these as crypto not cash, non only is the commision drying up but there is a ridk that previous income vanish as well..i would bet it will happen for some exchanges



Thanks for that @qldfrog . I've been looking at crypto from the sidelines. Your comments are very informative. Sorry to see ARV dump like that. 

gg


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## basilio (20 May 2021)

waterbottle said:


> As in the crypto exchanges? Possibly. Looks of uproar on Reddit about buyers having been locked out of their crypto brokers so if the fall continues then it may be the end for some if they continue to lock it their clients.
> Unfortunately this story of behaviour always happens - it has happened with equities and has happened with FX in the past (I remember FXCM getting flogged when the Swiss implemented negative rates and traders couldnt adjust their positions).




When bubbles burst the market,* by definition,* is not orderly. 
I suggest that with that in mind all investment markets will now go into risk on mode.
No one will want to be last out of the door.
And I'm not sure  anyone should trust the various puts, options, derivatives, stops etc that are intended to protect one's investment.
Just my opinion.


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## qldfrog (20 May 2021)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Thanks for that @qldfrog . I've been looking at crypto from the sidelines. Your comments are very informative. Sorry to see ARV dump like that.
> 
> gg



let's just say I try to see cryptos from a detached view, I made some good coins out of these but not  major, and had to kick myself when deciding to buy one more fullat 12k AUD or so, and delaying so much that I could not afford to gamble the full BTC prize.
I see BTC risk as the legal/gov one, and it seems gov are  now coming for the kill;
disclaimer: I kept 0.2 BTC


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## scarlettsmith694 (20 May 2021)

Coinbase stock marked its record low of US$208 in Wednesday’s trading. Bitcoin plunged as much as 29 percent before regaining some of the losses.


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## over9k (21 May 2021)

And wouldn't you know it, riot just clipped resistance before dropping back down again: 




Looking like a buy opportunity tomorrow if it keeps on its one day pattern.


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## over9k (21 May 2021)

Told you not to trust anything: 




That's a +10% to -3% in under three hours.

And yes, that line is the resistance line I pointed out earlier:


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## makteb (21 May 2021)

waterbottle said:


> I don't think the bottom is in yet folks. If you frequent reddit, there's a lot of outrage directed towards Musk and many are of the opinion that bitcoin is now toast and other coins will rise - not saying that they're right but that's the perception and perception matters.
> 
> I'm not in crypto, but this instrument has absorbed so much cash I. E. Fiat, that it has started to affect other markets - did someone say contagion?
> 
> ...





over9k said:


> Told you not to trust anything:
> 
> View attachment 124590
> 
> ...







you need to let the audience know tfs are important.  I know your trying to display knowledge and improve people's awareness, even the veterans forget sometimes.


Heed the words of veteran trader Heidl Von Wagner (aka vinni da man), emotion has no place in a traders, maybe in an investors heart.


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## Dark1975 (21 May 2021)

makteb said:


> you need to let the audience know tfs are important.  I know your trying to display knowledge and improve people's awareness, even the veterans forget sometimes.
> 
> 
> Heed the words of veteran trader Heidl Von Wagner (aka vinni da man), emotion has no place in a traders, maybe in an investors heart.



Wise words , but particularly more interested in your avatar !! lol . The bear giving it to the bull 😂 Maybe a sign to cum 😁 i mean come  😉


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## moXJO (21 May 2021)

makteb said:


> Heed the words of veteran trader Heidl Von Wagner (aka vinni da man), emotion has no place in a traders, maybe in an investors heheart.



Hey, if you don't cry into your cornflakes once in a while you're doing it wrong.


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## waterbottle (21 May 2021)

Found this piece on yahoo news overnight. Not much movement on crypto in response to it though... 


Bitcoin Drops As Biden Targets Crypto

Bitcoin fell after it emerged that the Treasury Department is going to crack down on cryptocurrency markets and transactions. It is making the move as part of President Joe Biden's proposed tax compliance measures.

It said any transfer worth $10,000 or more has to be reported to the Internal Revenue Service. In a release, the Treasury Department flagged the fact that cryptocurrencies can be used to facilitate "illegal activity broadly including tax evasion."

"This is why the President's proposal includes additional resources for the IRS to address the growth of cryptoassets," the department said in a statement. "Within the context of the new financial account reporting regime, cryptocurrencies and cryptoasset exchange accounts and payment service accounts that accept cryptocurrencies would be cover ed."


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## over9k (21 May 2021)

moXJO said:


> Hey, if you don't cry into your cornflakes once in a while you're doing it wrong.



Or curse the heavens when it moons after you sell


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## sptrawler (21 May 2021)

I think we have talked about the Feds wont allow another currency to undermine their own, it boils back to how do you control monetary policy, when you don't control the currency.


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## Dark1975 (21 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I think we have talked about the Feds wont allow another currency to undermine their own, it boils back to how do you control monetary policy, when you don't control the currency.



Yeah no one disputes that, but some crypto currencies like Xrp / xlm or Ada are the technology platforms that currencies will run on.
I think alot of people on this forum have bad information on blockchain technology 🤔 
For e.g : xrp  or xlm have validation nodes everywhere.  
Simply put when u transfer money from anywhere in the world 🌎  we use a 25 year old system  called ' swift " which takes 24hrs - 3days which validation thru many networks and banks and fees are high. 
Well in short Xrp can do payments anywhere around the world in minutes cutting the middle man and fees of transfers are less than 1/10 of 1 cent . Thats right under 1 cent.
This is one simple crypto coin with one function.
Tho some coins like bitcoin have been used as digital gold like a term of storage . Tho probaly thinking like you. No status quo will allow this to happen. Tho understanding also that u cant shut blockchain down . Tho I understand the u.s will use tether as there stable coin.. tho still Chinese whispers atm.

There are many different formats of coins with different systems networks like finance/ music etc etc.
Hope this gives you a better perspective. 
But i think in 20 years .. block chain will run everything cause its supercede tech on digital platforms. 
Like investing in Google or amazon 20years ago .
Tho picking the wrong coin or crypto is like picking yahoo instead of Google 
Hope this info serves u well
Pls note this is not finacial info
Pls DYOR


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## sptrawler (21 May 2021)

Dark1975 said:


> Yeah no one disputes that, but some crypto currencies like Xrp / xlm or Ada are the technology platforms that currencies will run on.
> I think alot of people on this forum have bad information on blockchain technology 🤔
> For e.g : xrp  or xlm have validation nodes everywhere.
> Simply put when u transfer money from anywhere in the world 🌎  we use a 25 year old system  called ' swift " which takes 24hrs - 3days which validation thru many networks and banks and fees are high.
> ...



I think the theory and technology is great and will be used, but at the end of the day the economy runs on people working, getting paid and paying taxes to the Government to supply services.
It can't work if everyone gets paid and no one supplies services, everyone gets wealthy until the toilet doesn't flush and the garbage is two stories high along the streets, which are littered with smashed cars because the traffic lights aren't working.
So unless the crypto's want to run everything, it wont work, because it wont be elected leaders it will be the crypto owners and they are about making money.


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## Dark1975 (21 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> I think the theory and technology is great and will be used, but at the end of the day the economy runs on people working, getting paid and paying taxes to the Government to supply services.
> It can't work if everyone gets paid and no one supplies services, everyone gets wealthy until the toilet doesn't flush and the garbage is two stories high along the streets, which are littered with smashed cars because the traffic lights aren't working.
> So unless the crypto's want to run everything, it wont work, because it wont be elected leaders it will be the crypto owners and they are about making money.



yeah I don't know about the politics...
All i know blockchain is far superior technology , That is far greater security , harder to hack , Faster , decentralised , everything is seen by all users , just faster and better technology. Pretty much of all the brains in developing software are now working in this field,
It's like going from dial up ( modem ) tech to Telstra 5 g network.. So regardless will be used


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## againsthegrain (21 May 2021)

Dark1975 said:


> yeah I don't know about the politics...
> All i know blockchain is far superior technology , That is far greater security , harder to hack , Faster , decentralised , everything is seen by all users , just faster and better technology. Pretty much of all the brains in developing software are now working in this field,
> It's like going from dial up ( modem ) tech to Telstra 5 g network.. So regardless will be used




xrp is centralised which makes it such a anomaly to be rated as a actual crypto and also makes it unique.  If the govts and central banks do try crack down on decentralised cryptos it just mite make xrp shine... like a diamond? caugh Elon hands


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## over9k (22 May 2021)

China reiterates a crackdown on energy use for bitcoin mining, hilarity ensues: 







Lots of orders for small amounts executing suggesting that this is a retail trader favourite too.


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## sptrawler (22 May 2021)

Dark1975 said:


> yeah I don't know about the politics...
> All i know blockchain is far superior technology , That is far greater security , harder to hack , Faster , decentralised , everything is seen by all users , just faster and better technology. Pretty much of all the brains in developing software are now working in this field,
> It's like going from dial up ( modem ) tech to Telstra 5 g network.. So regardless will be used



Yes it will be used, but it will be government crypto, not ponzi nerd crypto IMO.
The governments will just hijack it IMO.


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## over9k (22 May 2021)

RIOT now consolidated at the previously postulated support point: 




Looks like the fun is over for now  


Imagine being the poor bastard that bought on the open run trying to get on a momentum trade & then getting black swanned. Ouch.


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## qldfrog (22 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Yes it will be used, but it will be government crypto, not ponzi nerd crypto IMO.
> The governments will just hijack it IMO.



Why would governments use cryptos?
Their dream is the opposite!
They want a fully traceable highly corruptible and opaque digital currency that they can increase/ decrease the pool of behind the scene and more importantly seize  or seize part of, directly implementing negative interests.
They might boast the crypto or blockchain words in the PR flyers but this is as far from BC based cryptos as can be.
Governments do not want cryptos at all, just a traceable highly centralised and controlled digital only currency.
That's my view 😊


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## over9k (22 May 2021)

@Joe Blow Might be worth making this the general crypto thread or something? The discussion has been off just bitcoin for quite some time


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## ducati916 (22 May 2021)

qldfrog said:


> Why would governments use cryptos?
> Their dream is the opposite!
> They want a fully traceable highly corruptible and opaque digital currency that they can increase/ decrease the pool of behind the scene and more importantly seize  or seize part of, directly implementing negative interests.
> They might boast the crypto or blockchain words in the PR flyers but this is as far from BC based cryptos as can be.
> ...





Agreed.

Essentially the narrative has changed quite radically and not only the narrative. Governments are now actually implementing what was previously simply speculation of the possible risks of banning or making illegal cryptos.

BTC as the premier crypto will not go to zero. It will reside in a parallel universe on the dark web or even possibly in the daylight. It will be very limited in its transactional use as this will be largely made illegal. It will be considered an asset class much as gold is held as an insurance against fiat.

I saw a youtube video where a 30 something posited BTC's value in 10yrs at in excess of $12M/coin.

Once the dust settles on this crash, it will be interesting to see (a) where it settles and (b) whether it can re-establish its mojo.

The other risk is that with the beginnings of Quantum computing, you just know the crims are going to be ahead of the curve. Passwords to wallets are going to be hacked and high values stolen, if of course the values return to current levels to even make it worthwhile.


jog on
duc


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## qldfrog (22 May 2021)

ducati916 said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Essentially the narrative has changed quite radically and not only the narrative. Governments are now actually implementing what was previously simply speculation of the possible risks of banning or making illegal cryptos.
> 
> ...



Agree on the fact quantum computing is blatantly missing from the crypto narrative, we could see the last bitcoins avalable mined very very quickly..might even be green😂
Not sure the hacking will increase 
Accounts can still be protected with dual factors log in etc


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## waterbottle (22 May 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Yes it will be used, but it will be government crypto, not ponzi nerd crypto IMO.
> The governments will just hijack it IMO.



X2 the IMF already have a working paper published on crypto and its implementation. 

I don't see why any government would cede authority to some 3rd party especially when it comes to currency (I'll bite my tongue and admit the Fed is a quasi-3rd party though)


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## over9k (22 May 2021)

This conversation was had years ago back in the first big boom (2017 or so iirc). Only if/when bitcoin/blockchain becomes a threat to the power will they act. As long as it doesn't rock the boat in that way, they'll leave it alone. 

But I suspect that time is getting sooner by the day.


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## sptrawler (22 May 2021)

qldfrog said:


> Why would governments use cryptos?
> Their dream is the opposite!
> They want a fully traceable highly corruptible and opaque digital currency that they can increase/ decrease the pool of behind the scene and more importantly seize  or seize part of, directly implementing negative interests.
> They might boast the crypto or blockchain words in the PR flyers but this is as far from BC based cryptos as can be.
> ...



My apologies frog, i thought crypto's were a traceable, highly centralised and controlled digital currency, which you were able to keep track of.


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## Joe Blow (22 May 2021)

over9k said:


> @Joe Blow Might be worth making this the general crypto thread or something? The discussion has been off just bitcoin for quite some time




Yes, I think you're right. I have split off the non-Bitcoin related posts into this new thread for general cryptocurrency discussion. Those looking for Bitcoin price specific discussion can continue on in the Bitcoin price discussion and analysis thread.


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## Garpal Gumnut (22 May 2021)

As a contrarian I am attracted to Crypto as it is now a double contrary trading instrument. 

The big league aka Western Governments and China scoffed at it. Then partially acquiesced. Then pounded it. 

Buffett avoids it like the plague. Now that it is going to sh*t ,"experts" such as I are gut feeling a crash in BTC. 

While pimply youths on YouTube are predicting a rise in price to $US100,000.

Volatility, I like. Fear and Greed are buzzing in my head. If it could be bought at a Romanian corner store all it's citizens would be into it.

gg


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## over9k (24 May 2021)

TBH I think it's actually reached such a confidence point that the dip buyers will rescue it from now on garpal. Not to say that it can't be, shall we say, dislodged, but it'd take a hell of a lot more to do it now. 

At this point I just don't see what would do that.


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## rederob (8 July 2021)

Forbes has tried the latest blockchain offering.


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## basilio (9 July 2021)

rederob said:


> Forbes has tried the latest blockchain offering.




Well that is very interesting...
I can certainly see why a China backed cryptocurrency will absolutely fly.  I can also see why the US would be terrified of such a success.  I wouldn't be surprised to see some serious attempts at  sabotaging this effort.  It would certainly give China a big space in the financial world which to date has been dominated by the US.

Ironically I think the support of millions of US and Western investors/speculators will be one of the driving forces behind  any success.

This also highlights Chinas efforts at  creating a financial system that can't be coerced by the US. In particular it would be a challenge to the Swift system of money transfer.









						Special series: China lays digital groundwork for a new Silk Road
					

How China’s deployment of the digital yuan intertwines economics with geopolitics and concrete with virtual infrastructure, from Cambodia to the Caribbean.




					forkast.news


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## over9k (9 July 2021)

China went & shut down a whole bunch of crypto mines because they were sucking so much power.


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## mullokintyre (14 July 2021)

From Kitco 


> London's Metropolitan Police just seized a record $249 million (£180 million) worth of crypto in its latest operation, which is part of a bigger investigation into international money laundering.
> 
> This is one of the largest crypto confiscations globally and also beats the UK's previous record of $158 million (£114million) set on June 24, the Met police said on Tuesday.
> 
> ...



I always thought that cryptos could not be siezed. The whole point of Blockchain technology was to make the tracebilty such that they could not be transferred without the ledger being properly updated and approved. Perhaps the alleged crooks involved gave up the passwords to their elctronic wallets  in return for leniency in sentencing.
Mick


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## noirua (7 August 2021)

Stablecoins Could Challenge Banks and Drive Down Payment Costs: Federal Reserve Governor - The Daily Hodl
					

A member of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System is sharing his thoughts on the advantages of using private stablecoins over central bank digital currencies (CBDCs).




					dailyhodl.com


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## divs4ever (4 September 2021)

RBA Begins Its First CBDC Experiment​








						RBA Begins Its First CBDC Experiment
					

New dog, old tricks…a history of treachery…the decentralised money antidote…and more…It's finally happened. The RBA is taking the plunge on a central bank digital currency (CBDC)…..



					www.moneymorning.com.au
				




 quite obviously  the RBA has stayed locked in it's ivory tower  and hasn't observed the outstanding success  of the EU as a single currency trading bloc 

 since all currencies rely on trust  , maybe the RBA is trying to leverage the reputation of Singapore  , in this little experiment 

 BTW , wasn't South Africa  invited into the BRICS shared currency initiative  several years back


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## mullokintyre (4 September 2021)

basilio said:


> Well that is very interesting...
> I can certainly see why a China backed cryptocurrency will absolutely fly.  I can also see why the US would be terrified of such a success.  I wouldn't be surprised to see some serious attempts at  sabotaging this effort.  It would certainly give China a big space in the financial world which to date has been dominated by the US.
> 
> Ironically I think the support of millions of US and Western investors/speculators will be one of the driving forces behind  any success.
> ...



Not sure that a financial system  that  can be by coerced China would any better than financial system that can  coerced by  the US.
Mick


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## divs4ever (4 September 2021)

mullokintyre said:


> Not sure that a financial system  that  can be by coerced China would any better than financial system that can  coerced by  the US.
> Mick



 the problem is the willingness to be coerced , more than who is trying to coerce  the financial system 

 Australia is already an island ( actually two big ones and some smaller ones ) we could raise the financial draw-bridge if we wished to 

 why are we so  lured by  'the crowd '  we could easily be self-sufficient and self-reliant  in all financial matters


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## sptrawler (9 November 2021)

Austrac seems to be getting itself wedged, between making the Banks responsible for money laundering compliance and wreaking havoc in peoples lives. 
The Banks receive massive fines for not detecting money laundering, but are told to tread carefully when trying to avoid it, well that's what it looks like.
Well it looks like that, but it sounds like another Government dept wading around in water too deep for them.😂








						‘Devastating impact’: Austrac warns banks against ditching crypto dealers
					

The anti-money laundering regulator believes the mass debanking of cryptocurrency traders will lead to more criminal activity, not less.




					www.theage.com.au
				



From the article:
_The anti-money laundering regulator is warning banks against large-scale ‘debanking’ of customers for dealing in cryptocurrencies and remittance services, saying it expects deposit takers to have systems in place to differentiate good operators from bad ones.

Austrac issued the stern warning against debanking - where a bank stops dealing with a customer - amid concerns from operators in the cryptocurrency sector that they had been exiled from the Australian banking system because they ran businesses dealing in the blockchain-based currencies.

The regulator said the debanking of account holders can have a “devastating impact” on individuals and small businesses.
“The effect of debanking of legitimate and lawful financial services businesses can increase the risks of money laundering and terrorism financing and negatively impacts Australia’s economy,” Austrac said in its statement.

“For this reason, Austrac continues to discourage the indiscriminate and widespread closure of accounts across entire financial services sectors.”
Loading
A Senate inquiry into Australia becoming a financial services hub recently heard evidencefrom small businesses specialising in trading cryptocurrency on the impacts of debanking – a now industry-wide practice.

The banks have in recent months defended their decisions to close accounts, saying they do so to ensure they are adhering to anti-money laundering and counter-terrorism financing laws.

*Austrac brushed off that defence from the banks, saying it had higher expectations the banks would not deem a customer high risk because of the sector they worked in.

“Although the decision to close an account may remain a necessary risk control, Austrac considers with appropriate systems and processes in place, banks should be able to manage high-risk customers, including those operating remittance services, digital currency exchanges, not-for-profit organisations (NPO) and financial technology (FinTech) businesses,” the regulator said.*
_
*“Austrac expects banks and all regulated businesses to adopt a case-by-case approach to managing ML/TF (money laundering/terrorism financing) risks. This expectation extends to the importance in continuing to assess the particular risks relating to their business customers in line with the risk-based approach.*”😂


Now that sounds like a " we have a problem, you solve it", sort of explanation. The funny part is Austrac will fine them billions if they find that it was used for money laundering.

It's a shame AUSTRAC aren't listed on the asx, you could put me down for some of their shares.🥳


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## grah33 (22 November 2021)

Buffet isn't buying bitcoin, a good point.
But Musk and others are ... 

Perhaps it's being accumulated now by the players in this time of indecision.


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## noirua (27 November 2021)

Bitcoin sentiment in 'wild' divergence from reality as $53K BTC triggers 'extreme fear'
					

Bitcoin investors ignore the $55,000 BTC price tag as market sentiment dives to "extreme fear."




					cointelegraph.com
				




All markets seemed to have dropped on the new South African coronavirus variant 'Omicron' that it seems is capable of forming more variants and the recent Covid-19 vaccinations may no longer be fully affective.  Cryptos fell badly, gold shares in Canada and USA mainly fell again - a few resisted like DRD Gold NYSE: DRD which is however down from $17.71 to just over $9.00 and shares like this on high yields may be wanted. Other shares fell away with microcaps very weak in Canada, Europe, USA and UK.

Where to now for Bitcoin and Gold/ Silver and shares in general?  Will Fiat currencies revive or will the likes of Bitcoin and Ethereum rebound? My own view is the same really that people buy the US dollar when fear sets in. As to fixed interest holdings in a higher inflationary environment they may seem poor value unless economies go into recession and the present boom reverses.


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## noirua (27 November 2021)

sptrawler said:


> Austrac seems to be getting itself wedged, between making the Banks responsible for money laundering compliance and wreaking havoc in peoples lives.
> The Banks receive massive fines for not detecting money laundering, but are told to tread carefully when trying to avoid it, well that's what it looks like.
> Well it looks like that, but it sounds like another Government dept wading around in water too deep for them.😂
> 
> ...











						Which Australian Banks accept Bitcoin? | NOWPayments
					

Australia is in a complex situation in terms of its banking institutions' perspectives on cryptocurrency. Some Australian banks welcome crypto investors




					nowpayments.io
				



While the majority of Australian banks decide to stay away from dealing with cryptocurrencies, Australian merchants can begin accepting digital assets as payment without their assistance. NOW Payments has designed several tools for accepting cryptocurrencies that businesses can utilize to deploy their crypto payments gateway.

Research shows that Australian banks are not eager to embrace cryptocurrencies. Basically, it is hardly possible to even compile a list of banks that accept Bitcoin in Australia because there are no such Banks. Some of the institutions openly consider digital assets unstable, while others block their clients from buying crypto. Nevertheless, the example of Volt gives the Australian crypto community hope that soon the trend towards mass adoption will prevail in the country, letting millions of crypto investors in Australia manage their crypto using traditional banks’ accounts.


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## over9k (28 November 2021)

noirua said:


> Bitcoin sentiment in 'wild' divergence from reality as $53K BTC triggers 'extreme fear'
> 
> 
> Bitcoin investors ignore the $55,000 BTC price tag as market sentiment dives to "extreme fear."
> ...





over9k said:


> Nah peter you're off the mark here.
> 
> Cryptocurrencies are correlated with inflation:
> 
> ...


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## basilio (2 December 2021)

The Meta Verse is in full swing. Property prices are BOOMING.  Get in quick.

   Welcome to Decentraland, the metaverse world with its own crypto where 'land' is worth millions​


   Image from Decentraland, the first fully decentralised virtual social world where land is selling for millions.                              -                              Copyright        Decentraland

         By *Aisling Ní Chúláin*  •  Updated: 29/11/2021    

If you thought the metaverse was conjured into existence when Mark Zuckerberg announced that Meta was building the “next version of the Internet,” then it may surprise you to learn the metaverse is already an existing, thriving ecosystem - complete with a booming property market.

In recent days, a plot of "land" sold for €2.1 million in the online social world Decentraland, obliterating its own previous record sale of €810,000 in June.

In Decentraland, users from the physical world can enter, create avatars, buy property, purchase wearables on the marketplace and attend events.









						Inside Decentraland, a metaverse world where 'land' sells for millions
					

There is growing interest in virtual social platforms like Decentraland which bills itself as the first fully-decentralised virtual social world in the metaverse.




					www.euronews.com


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## over9k (2 December 2021)

In other words, it's a new way to clean dirty money.


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## basilio (6 December 2021)

I'm interested to learn/understand a bit more about the Crypto currency market. So if  relevant posters are willing to share their experience just a few questions for Crypto currency traders and perhaps it would be useful intelligence for everyone. Obviously no one has to answer any/all of the queries .

1)  Have you ever taken a crypto profit and exited completely ie gone to cash with the proceeds  ?
2)  In what circumstances would you expect to cash out some/most/all of your crypto stakes for  cash ?
3)  Have you ever had problems trying to sell stakes for cash ? Does the market work effectively  in that context ?
4)  Have you directly experienced or seen examples of  fraud, misrepresentation, shonky dealings in the crypto market ? How have you dealt with the issues ?
5) Have you directly experienced or seen colleagues who have been badly burnt trading in this market?

Cheers
Bas
 ..........................................................................................
Happy to have these questions copied and re submitted by other posters.


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## basilio (6 December 2021)

Jack Dorsey multi billionare CEO is focusing his money and interest on crypto currency. 
Intriguing story on how belief can create reality.









						Jack Dorsey’s ditched Twitter for bitcoin. Has the social media bubble burst? | Richard Seymour
					

With major platforms struggling to make a profit, Dorsey is following the money. Cryptocurrency may be about to go mainstream, says author Richard Seymour




					www.theguardian.com


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## over9k (6 December 2021)

basilio said:


> I'm interested to learn/understand a bit more about the Crypto currency market. So if  relevant posters are willing to share their experience just a few questions for Crypto currency traders and perhaps it would be useful intelligence for everyone. Obviously no one has to answer any/all of the queries .
> 
> 1)  Have you ever taken a crypto profit and exited completely ie gone to cash with the proceeds  ?
> 2)  In what circumstances would you expect to cash out some/most/all of your crypto stakes for  cash ?
> ...






False I.D. Here's your real story of crypto the last couple weeks: 




Which then means the way they must be connected is: 




If you're smart (and I think you are), you should be able to answer all of your questions yourself now. 


I've never had a glitched/bad transaction that the exchange I use (swyftx) has not been 100% helpful with and found and/or refunded completely for me. Out of the hundreds of transactions I've made, only two have ever failed to deliver and one of them was to an old wallet that they managed to find and transfer to my new wallet anyway.


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## basilio (6 December 2021)

over9k said:


> View attachment 133865
> 
> 
> False I.D. Here's your real story of crypto the last couple weeks:
> ...




I'm smart enough not to take "answers" for granted. 

I get that you seem to be making (almost) every trade a winner with Crypto.  Good on you. Perhaps other punters have different perspectives. 

A couple of things I'm confident of though :
1) With rapidly rising crypto markets many people are making out like bandits
2) There is still no real underlying reality in crypto currency.  It floats on promotion,  faith and confidence that tomorrow will bring new converts to the table.


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## over9k (6 December 2021)

basilio said:


> I'm smart enough not to take "answers" for granted.
> 
> I get that you seem to be making (almost) every trade a winner with Crypto.  Good on you. Perhaps other punters have different perspectives.
> 
> ...



There's an awful lot of salt out there. 

And by that I mean, a lot of people in denial. It's like the "housing has to come down sometime" crowd not wanting to accept that they've missed a boat. 

I know bitcoin et al aren't housing, but their respective saltmines are both there for the exact same reason.


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## basilio (7 December 2021)

over9k said:


> I know bitcoin et al aren't housing, but their respective saltmines are both there for the exact same reason.




Come off it over9k !!   I can certainly see people  disappointed they didn't get into crypto earlier and maybe now sitting on a bundle. And yes housing is also,IMV , over priced.  But the critical difference is the reality and utility of housing vs  crypto currency.

I also noted in the other crypto thread that scams only continue while people believe in them and continue to pump money in. The same observation can be made about stockmarkets and property of course.  While enough people are pushing crypto currency it will stay afloat.  

Nonetheless I am interested in the practical experiences of people currently playing in this market. Hence my questions.


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## over9k (7 December 2021)

basilio said:


> Come off it over9k !!   I can certainly see people  disappointed they didn't get into crypto earlier and maybe now sitting on a bundle. And yes housing is also,IMV , over priced.  But the critical difference is the reality and utility of housing vs  crypto currency.
> 
> I also noted in the other crypto thread that scams only continue while people believe in them and continue to pump money in. The same observation can be made about stockmarkets and property of course.  While enough people are pushing crypto currency it will stay afloat.
> 
> Nonetheless I am interested in the practical experiences of people currently playing in this market. Hence my questions.



But this is a "bitcoin and cryptocurrency trading thread", not a "bitcoin and cryptocurrency utility thread"?


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## moXJO (8 December 2021)

basilio said:


> I'm interested to learn/understand a bit more about the Crypto currency market. So if  relevant posters are willing to share their experience just a few questions for Crypto currency traders and perhaps it would be useful intelligence for everyone. Obviously no one has to answer any/all of the queries .
> 
> 1)  Have you ever taken a crypto profit and exited completely ie gone to cash with the proceeds  ?
> 2)  In what circumstances would you expect to cash out some/most/all of your crypto stakes for  cash ?
> ...



1.Yes exit large positions frequently. Sometimes however I will exit into eth on occasion or flip it into the next trade. Never had a problem

2. I generally go to cash, or a stable coin when the market gets topsy. Other times I just ride the dips or add more. So far majority of tops are taken out over short time frames. I wait on key news to dump generally ie. Regulation, tether, nft, major hacks et . But even that news can be tainted.

3.Gas fees can get prohibitively expensive. Nft market is basically a popularity contest to get most eyes. When you realise you are basically trading ponzi schemes to find the early returns it's easier to trade.

4. Fraud is constant. Anyone that's in the guts of crypto of nft sees nothing but fraud. Watched it, traded obvious frauds, been rug pulled. It's part of the landscape. Huge amount of coins are rug pulls. You can generally tell by how the coins are initially setup. If they allow devs to lock liquidity and sell etc. There's ways to protect yourself.  Community is the best and worst thing about crypto.

5. Seen plenty of burns. People get slaughtered from all the various scams. Most that trade on the risky platforms know the deal. Know guys that have lost millions.


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## grah33 (15 December 2021)

over9k said:


> But this is a "bitcoin and cryptocurrency trading thread", not a "bitcoin and cryptocurrency utility thread"?



how come bitcoin is going down?
Might be a good time to buy ...

Musk thinks it's not good for transactions, but more of a store of value.  u think he has a point  to make?


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## over9k (15 December 2021)

grah33 said:


> how come bitcoin is going down?
> Might be a good time to buy ...
> 
> Musk thinks it's not good for transactions, but more of a store of value.  u think he has a point  to make?



Inflation expectations (interest rates).




Musk has outright manipulated the bitcoin market, I wouldn't be taking anything he says at face value.


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## wayneL (16 December 2021)

over9k said:


> Inflation expectations (interest rates).
> 
> View attachment 134340
> 
> ...



Musk is like the Oracle of Crypto.

But unlike Buffet, who is as solid as, Musk seems to enjoy the puppeteering of the masses. Interesting to watch though, I'll have this sh¹t about figured out just as I'm about ready to give up my ghost LOL.


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## Knobby22 (5 January 2022)

From the creator of dogecoin.


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## Knobby22 (5 January 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> From the creator of dogecoin.




He makes a very cogent argument.

Just to add evidence to his argument, Trumpcoin exists. Anyone stupid enough to fall for this deserves to lose.


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