# New to the stock market: Where do I begin?



## Atomic_Sheep (24 November 2005)

Hi guys

I'm a uni student doing commerce. I am on holidays at the moment and have decided to start trading on the share market. I am starting with 1000 bux so not a lot and hence I'm not looking for long term investments. I have already conducted a hypothetical trade lasting about 1 to 2 months (I cant remember exatly when I "bought" them) and have hypothetically made 29% return. So I'm looking at the higher risk shares. Despite this, I have no idea where to start and how to go about the trading. In other words I dont know where to store the money i.e. which bank... I would imagine that they would have similar rates and probably won't matter much who I bank with. Secondly could you recommend where I trade? I know of etrade... but I'm sure you guys know of something better. Thridly is there some sort of software out there that could help me, I'm doing this from home as you can imagine and ASX doesnt seem like a good way of monitoring the market. And finally, if you can give me a crash course to how to select stocks (would it be better to specialise in a certain area e.g. raw materials? or what?) and how to be consistent (I'm not a gambling person and firmly believe that there has to be information, indicators or whatever, that I will have to know of before I can start trading) (I know thats a lot to ask for especially with my high risk demands) but if you have sites that you could recommend, that would be much appreciated.

Thnx


----------



## Julia (24 November 2005)

*Re: Beginner*



			
				Atomic_Sheep said:
			
		

> Hi guys
> 
> I'm a uni student doing commerce. I am on holidays at the moment and have decided to start trading on the share market. I am starting with 1000 bux so not a lot and hence I'm not looking for long term investments. I have already conducted a hypothetical trade lasting about 1 to 2 months (I cant remember exatly when I "bought" them) and have hypothetically made 29% return. So I'm looking at the higher risk shares. Despite this, I have no idea where to start and how to go about the trading. In other words I dont know where to store the money i.e. which bank... I would imagine that they would have similar rates and probably won't matter much who I bank with. Secondly could you recommend where I trade? I know of etrade... but I'm sure you guys know of something better. Thridly is there some sort of software out there that could help me, I'm doing this from home as you can imagine and ASX doesnt seem like a good way of monitoring the market. And finally, if you can give me a crash course to how to select stocks (would it be better to specialise in a certain area e.g. raw materials? or what?) and how to be consistent (I'm not a gambling person and firmly believe that there has to be information, indicators or whatever, that I will have to know of before I can start trading) (I know thats a lot to ask for especially with my high risk demands) but if you have sites that you could recommend, that would be much appreciated.
> 
> Thnx




Hello Atomic Sheep

I'm sure you'll get plenty of advice from forum members.
All I'd suggest to you at this early stage of your trading career is not to be so dismissive of the ASX.  They have a lot of great basic information on their website and respond quickly and helpfully to emails you send them with specific queries.  They also have current announcements.  Just take a look at www.asx.com.au and work through their various links.

I've recently switched to e-trade and am happy so far.  They have quite good research and other back up services.

Also using the "Stock Quote" at top of ASF home page and the Search facility will give you access to more info.
Good luck

Julia


----------



## karmatik (24 November 2005)

*Re: Beginner*



			
				Julia said:
			
		

> Hello Atomic Sheep
> 
> I'm sure you'll get plenty of advice from forum members.
> All I'd suggest to you at this early stage of your trading career is not to be so dismissive of the ASX.  They have a lot of great basic information on their website and respond quickly and helpfully to emails you send them with specific queries.  They also have current announcements.  Just take a look at www.asx.com.au and work through their various links.
> ...




I agree with Julia about asx.com.au. Being a beginner also I find its very useful and provides online course that summarise what you are after in an easy to digest manner. I suggest you start there.

Pat


----------



## tarnor (24 November 2005)

*Re: Beginner*

Firstly I wouldnt suggest etrade..  go for something like comsec/morrisons where the trades are alot cheaper., and make sure there's no monthly fees 
http://www.infochoice.com.au/ will give u a run down on online brokers..

The thing with only having 1k is your horribly undercapitalised.. if your brokerage is 30$ for each trade a 10 percent move on your stock (+100$) minus 60$ brokerage will only get you ahead to 1040$..

* so straight up get the very cheapest brokerage possible...

I had a 2k parcel left over from lending money to my mum..  which i've been trading aggressively for the last few months.. althought ive had a few years experience trading more safely i tried to do just what you planned.. although i've been incredibly lucky with phenomenal returns over the last 2 months, the odds are stacked heavily against you and to be honest you're more than likely looking at a 1k education :/

Things that do go in your favour are that by having such a small parcel you can slip in and out of trades with high volume easily.. but you're constantly fighting that brokerage  and will need at least 10 percent on your trades for a while. 

Another thing with what you plan to do is that if you want big returns there's going to be a huge temptation to gamble on things like drilling results.. that can make or break you in the one trade..  

SAU is one of these stocks, with drill results coming up in as soon as a few weeks (and also early next year) theirs the potential to make a lot of money quickly on good results.. but it could also sit around for ages at a share price less then what you payed..  I'd be tempted to punt on things like that and probably blow the 1k straight up 

You can get a relatively good 50 - 100 percent return  on decent junior oilers if you buy 3 or so month before a high profile drill and then sell before they start going down.. this is a slightly longer high risk play.. TIME is critical 

Big short term gain potential = big short term failure potential  

There's no other way i'm afraid..   

Give me 1k now and i'd go straight to the cheapest CFD provider and wait till i was on a sure thing for my first trade and crank the leverage.. then become more agresssive as i made a little capital... in this way a 10 percent gain on the stock would double your 1k.. a 10 percent loss and it would be game over anymore and it would likely end up having you in a sobbing fetal position.

I by no means recommend that !!!!

No matter what happens chalk it up as invaluable education.. that may be all you get out of this exchange..  

and also don't take one smucks opinion only.. like this one i just wrote you will get burned over and over by people on forums spruiking whatever particular share they've fallen in love with.. ie i like SAU, but its acting like a DOG, don't have money in it currently but will gamble on it sometime soon - i've basically already decided that puppy is gunna bring me some money and you couldn't convince me otherwise... 

Would you trust me..  hell no.. 8)


----------



## tarnor (24 November 2005)

*Re: Beginner*

And also trading speccies..



> Buy on rumour sell on fact




be ready for that... over and over and over again..
cheers


----------



## doctorj (25 November 2005)

*Re: Beginner*

First and foremost, you must realise you're not going to get rich doing these.  As often as you see the big gainers each day, in reality you will only be onboard them once in a blue moon and only if you're very lucky.

That said, as a student its not a bad way to start out.  If you lose your stake, then you'll be alright.  Chances are you live at home and the $1000 would have just been spent on booze anyway.

I like the suggestion of jumping onboard junior oilers pre-spud. Timing is the key as you need to be VERY wary of your risk/reward.  There are several junior oilers listed on the ASX spudding wells in the next 2 months that are potentially worth multiples of their share price.  To see how they play out, look up a chart of GOP from a couple of months ago and cross reference it with the announcements they made.  GOP was very typical in the way it played out in the case of a high risk/reward deep offshore well that winded up a duster.  Pay particular attention to the language of the announcements, especially the announcement made the day before they announced it was going to be capped and sealed as uneconomic.  When trading these things, particularly if you decide you want to stay the course of the drill, the language used can help you stay ahead of the masses.

At the end of the day being that undercapitalised isn't going to help you retire early but it will let you learn about trading.  Nothing compares to the learning curve you experience when you have money in the market.  Besides, the very worst thing that can happen is losing your $1000. Take the opportunity, do the leg work and learn something along the way. Depending on what your majors are, you will find many of the subjects you cross in trading will greatly assist you in your studies (eg. Banking, Finance, Corp Law, Accounting).


----------



## bvbfan (25 November 2005)

*Re: Beginner*

Cheapest broker is Netwealth around $17 and you can use your current bank account.
I'd suggest looking at  one of the high interest accounts online with ING, BankWest or Esanda
All above 5.5% I think so you can keep money there when funds are idle.

Pick a few stocks to monitor and don't go chasing them would be my tip.


----------



## Atomic_Sheep (25 November 2005)

*Re: Beginner*

Well thanx guys... that was very helpful. I'm currently reading up everything on the asx website (as well as heaps of other sites).

One more question, does anyone know a bit about options? Would it be feasable to trade options with my starting out capital? I found out about them in my finance book and it basically talked about their pricing some strategies and stuff like that. Just wondering wether anyone has actual hands on experience with them

I'm personally very tempted to do what a couple of you recommended and bet everything on drill results or something like that anyway. Losing everything isn't going to be the end of the world, I'll just get some more money and start again (will just have to get a job for that that thou  : ) but basically I want to raise as much capital as possible so I can begin to diversify and increase my choices. And as some of you pointed out, the brokarage fees with such a small starting capital are a major sting in the tail and therefore I'm looking for larger returns (hence high risk). Since I'm on holidays for the next couple of months, I don't mind sitting around waiting for a while for the shares to do antything as long as in the end its a positive result.

Oh yeh last thing... I know it it would depend from person to person but judging from your responses I gather you guys have found several shares that interest you and you are essentially closely following just those ones, my question is firstly is this a correct perception and if so how many companies do you think would be a good idea to track?


----------



## kaveman (25 November 2005)

*Re: Beginner*

For some reason the ASX has been pushing options trading for a while now. I can only think they earn more money from them.
The risk is higher and you can lose 100% of your trade very easily. Derivatives are not for the beginner, nor are tey for the expereinced campaigner who has trouble admitting they are wrong and exiting a trade quickly.
From what you have written you ahve never traded, nor actually invested. Suggest you forget using your own money until you come up with a trading method to suit you. One that you have tested in real time paper trading. Then you may have a chance to actually survive trading with real money.
Trading is very deceptive. It looks really easy when you are hindsight trading, but the stress of actually placing your money into the market is very very different.


----------



## bvbfan (25 November 2005)

*Re: Beginner*



			
				Atomic_Sheep said:
			
		

> Oh yeh last thing... I know it it would depend from person to person but judging from your responses I gather you guys have found several shares that interest you and you are essentially closely following just those ones, my question is firstly is this a correct perception and if so how many companies do you think would be a good idea to track?



I have 5 I'm tracking that I'm quiet keen on, all resources. Some of them like CMR, OXR and PNA have already had their big gains (300%, 1300%, 400%) from when I became interested in them. I still think they will go higher but not as easily.
There are others I'm looking at now that I see potential to at least double from current levels. ADY, AIM, CMR, EQN but they may take time to get there (OXR has been 5 years, PNA about 3yrs) 

*
I've mentioned the stocks only for illustrative purposes and do not consider them as tips to buy. Of course you can do your own research and decide whether its appropriate for yourself
*


----------



## doctorj (25 November 2005)

*Re: Beginner*

If I were you, I'd learn shares before starting in options.  Options are complex and the first step to understanding them is understanding the underlying share. The best way to do that is to trade straight shares.

I maintain a watchlist of between 30-40 small caps (in addition to about 25 midcaps and blue chips).  Within the list of small caps I have anywhere between 10-15 energy stocks of which I have varying degrees of understanding of the fundamentals of.

If you're keen in learning about oilers, google for Junior Oilers Weekly, sometimes creatively referred to as 'JOW' and subscribe.  If offers very good research, reading material, visible portfolios and recommendations including a well maintained 'sell on spud' watchlist. Also worth reading this Oil and Gas industry primer for a quick and dirty introduction on the world of oil and gas vernacular.


----------



## RichKid (25 November 2005)

*Re: Beginner*



			
				Atomic_Sheep said:
			
		

> And as some of you pointed out, the brokarage fees with such a small starting capital are a major sting in the tail and therefore I'm looking for larger returns (hence high risk). Since I'm on holidays for the next couple of months, I don't mind sitting around waiting for a while for the shares to do antything as long as in the end its a positive result.




Hi Atomic Sheep,
I guess you've been smitten by the trading bug!! I'm worried by all the emotion being shown here, Mr Market will take your money quick smart and may not even say thank you very much.

Get as many hours of paid work during the holidays as you can and save some money, aim for $10k to 20k minimum and put it into an online savings account  with no fees and at least 5.40% compound interest. Work at it day and night, in between read these forums and all the trading books we recommend here  (use the search tool, Chris Tate and Nick Radge's books are great for starters; learn the math and don't shirk the paperwork- treat it like a business and keep records so you can evaluate your performance). That way you will appreciate the value of your hard earned money and wont risk it so easily (I trust), not without some education anyway.  

Also please read the ASF 'code of conduct' (link at foot of each page near the paypal logo) and 'posting guidelines' (link at top of each forum) asap.

There are lots of questions similar to yours which have been asked here before, maybe a search will give you a new angle on what to be aware of. Hope this helps and do those free courses on the ASX website, next stop, your library- it's free. Be patient.

Good luck! 
RichKid
moderator
PS I'm a beginner in stocks myself so take that into account when reading what I write.


----------



## karmatik (27 November 2005)

*Re: Beginner*

Hi,

There is some good advice in this thread.

I have one query which has been bothering me for a while. As I am a beginner also, I have considered paper trading. However, I am concerned that having success at this may give me a false sense of security which could lead me into serious bother once I decided to trade with "real money".

Do you think this is a fair point?


----------



## Dan_ (27 November 2005)

*Re: Beginner*



			
				karmatik said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> There is some good advice in this thread.
> 
> ...




I'm also a beginner and am currently paper trading and back testing some ideas to see what expectancy I can return. In my opinion once I have established my "system" and have paper traded it I will slowly make the transition into live trading with my capital. I'll probably start only using 30% of my cash and monitor, if the results are in line with my testing then I will increase the cash. If not and it all goes wrong I’ve only lose a small percentage of the 30% and still have cash ready.

Although I believe even though back testing can give you a fair idea of your expected results, it is historical data and not live. History may repeat itself but I wasn’t in the market in the past so I have to deal with the physiological side.


----------



## doctorj (27 November 2005)

*Re: Beginner*



			
				karmatik said:
			
		

> I have one query which has been bothering me for a while. As I am a beginner also, I have considered paper trading. However, I am concerned that having success at this may give me a false sense of security which could lead me into serious bother once I decided to trade with "real money".




The one thing you cannot teach someone is experience.  I think that paper trading is an invaluable tool in gaining some of that experience. Managing open trades is a great educational tool only bettered by trading for real.

If you don't have the discipline to stick to your trading plan and properly manage risk because of the false sense of security generated by successful paper trading then you're going to fail trading sooner or later anyway.

A strategy proven profitable by paper trading is no sure sign of being profitable in the market, but at the same time there is no way that a strategy that can't be paper traded to profits is going to be long term profitable in the real world.

My vote is to paper trade, but you need to be strict about managing your paper account as though it were real money else its a waste of time.


----------



## karmatik (28 November 2005)

*Re: Beginner*

Thanks DoctorJ and Dan, good points!

Atomic_Sheep - sorry if it seems like I have hijacked your thread!


----------



## Atomic_Sheep (30 November 2005)

*Re: Beginner*

karmatik you have hijacked my thread and I am very angry about it lol just kidding lol  : 

What is paper trading? From what you guys have written, it's just fake trading. Am I right?

Thanks guys, for your responses, great stuff   .


----------



## karmatik (30 November 2005)

*Re: Beginner*



			
				Atomic_Sheep said:
			
		

> What is paper trading? From what you guys have written, it's just fake trading. Am I right?




Yeah, thats my understanding of it.

There is so many terms in this trading lark, its hard to keep up. I find http://www.investopedia.com invaluable for discovering what the various definitions mean.


----------



## RichKid (30 November 2005)

*Re: Beginner*



			
				Atomic_Sheep said:
			
		

> What is paper trading? From what you guys have written, it's just fake trading. Am I right?




Hey Atomic,
Follow this link to see what paper trading looks like, courtesy of WayneL- enjoy


----------



## tech/a (1 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*



			
				karmatik said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> There is some good advice in this thread.
> 
> ...





My question back to you would be 

How and why?

My answer to the very same question would be NO IF you know HOW and WHY you made the profit.

Frankly to Atomic--I'd forget about trading with a K and invest it in Radges book and Mike Lally's Mastering Risk.

If your net disposable cash is 1K then you'll die by fear/greed and brokerage.


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (2 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*

Paper trading is like knitting with invisible thread, or playing air guitar, or buying a blow up doll to ....


----------



## tech/a (2 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*

*So businesses which compile cash flow projections are just fooling themselves?
Market research is plainly delusionary.*

Snake.
Ever noticed how the larger majority grab hold of a "trueism" and become one of the flock---yet those with true success set themselves apart from the flock.


----------



## websman (2 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*

I use Etrade but you might also want to check out IB (interactive brokers)


----------



## websman (2 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*



			
				Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> Paper trading is like knitting with invisible thread, or playing air guitar, or buying a blow up doll to ....




What's wrong with the doll thing???


----------



## karmatik (2 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*



			
				tech/a said:
			
		

> My question back to you would be
> 
> How and why?
> 
> My answer to the very same question would be NO IF you know HOW and WHY you made the profit.




As far as Im concerned, paper trading would not involve the stress, risk, and the psycholgical factors that you undergo in money trading and the effect of rumours and market sentiment. Surely you would trade with a clearer mind when paper trading and not be as adversely affected by external influence.

Understanding how or why is a matter of experience whether you paper trade or money trade.

When I play Monopoly, my decision to buy hotels/houses to grow my empire is not affected by insurance costs, maintenance, rates, depreciation, inlflation etc etc.

Would you not consider this to be a fair point??


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (2 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*



			
				tech/a said:
			
		

> *So businesses which compile cash flow projections are just fooling themselves?
> Market research is plainly delusionary.*
> 
> Snake.
> Ever noticed how the larger majority grab hold of a "trueism" and become one of the flock---yet those with true success set themselves apart from the flock.





Tech,

I see considerable differences with paper trading and marketing. I studied marketing and management and would be the first to acknowledge the power of forcasting and setting targets based on projections etc. But trading is different and it's the emotional aspect and discipline aspect that need to be sorted out. Real trading can only do this - once you lose real money it hits home like a tonne of bricks. It's rather like learning an instrument or a craft.

Snake


----------



## tech/a (2 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*



			
				Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> Tech,
> 
> I see considerable differences with paper trading and marketing. I studied marketing and management and would be the first to acknowledge the power of forcasting and setting targets based on projections etc. But trading is different and it's the emotional aspect and discipline aspect that need to be sorted out. Real trading can only do this - once you lose real money it hits home like a tonne of bricks. It's rather like learning an instrument or a craft.
> 
> Snake




Hmm If your trying to tell me that marketing or better target marketing and targeting a demographic is without emotion and or that carrying out a marketing plan or programme doesnt require discipline-------?????

I can take emotion completely out of the equation for you or any trader.

No it has nothing to do with being a systems trader/user.
It is however a very clear example of stepping outside of the herd of sheep.

Trading with herd mentallity is like playing the drums with a pair of baseball bats!!


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (2 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*

Tech,

Are you able to post without talking down to people?


----------



## tech/a (2 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*



			
				Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> Tech,
> 
> Are you able to post without talking down to people?




If you see my posts as talking down to you then your not cut out for trading let alone business.I'll make my point and have without personal attack.
I'm not going to agree with comments I know to be flawed

If I offend you place me on ignore.


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (2 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*



			
				tech/a said:
			
		

> If you see my posts as talking down to you then your not cut out for trading let alone business.I'll make my point and have without personal attack.
> I'm not going to agree with comments I know to be flawed
> 
> If I offend you place me on ignore.




You don't offend me, far from it, but you need to review your writing style. You are not always right (like me) and need to reassess your stance here on the forum. I can think of many you don't get along with. Maybe I see their points of view.

Please have a nice day, I will.  

Snake


----------



## tech/a (2 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*



			
				Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> You don't offend me, far from it, but you need to review your writing style. You are not always right (like me) and need to reassess your stance here on the forum. I can think of many you don't get along with. Maybe I see their points of view.
> 
> Please have a nice day, I will.
> 
> Snake





The writing style is the way I write,I'm rude and ignorant/arrogant at times---like most I dont suffer fools--- if I'm wrong and its pointed out where I'm supposedly wrong, I'll look at it./discuss it and happy to alter my veiw if worthwhile (in my opinion). If there is a recient example of wrong let me know,I havent seen it bought to my attention.

As for re assessing my stance how is it that you perceive my stance? OR more to the point how do I perceive my stance?
I'll never win a popularity contest and those that I dont get along with here is by mutual choice,Kris,Tree,Batmann and the likes.
I dont have a personal gripe with any of these people but just as I have no input into their lives they have nothing to add to mine.

Frankly the quality of posts on most forums is at best poor.
95% of the time its the blind leading the blind. Un profitable traders discussing with other un profitable traders how they are profitable.

Profitable traders can tell unprofitable traders by how they write/the questions they ask and the explainations they give.

If you want to hear the usual regurgitated guff then just ignore my posts,no problem.
But if one trader can make a consistant profit from my encouragement and examples of sticking their head out of the shoebox---I'm happy.


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (2 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*



			
				tech/a said:
			
		

> The writing style is the way I write,I'm rude and ignorant/arrogant at times---like most I dont suffer fools--- if I'm wrong and its pointed out where I'm supposedly wrong, I'll look at it./discuss it and happy to alter my veiw if worthwhile (in my opinion). If there is a recient example of wrong let me know,I havent seen it bought to my attention.
> 
> As for re assessing my stance how is it that you perceive my stance? OR more to the point how do I perceive my stance?
> I'll never win a popularity contest and those that I dont get along with here is by mutual choice,Kris,Tree,Batmann and the likes.
> ...





Well, you have really stood out like GOD on this one.

I don't have any personal problems with you (out of business you probably are a good bloke) and I don't share your arrogant opinions. However, you do standout on this forum and really are pathetic. Saying what you have about most posters is snobbish to say the least.
The blind leading the blind, well maybe you should relearn the English language and answer what people are asking, rather than ranting and giving speeches that mean nothing - but that's your style. Importantly you don't know anything about me, my profitability, my trading knowledge... and some things never seem what they are, or do they? 

You want something added to your life, well take a look at your website; it looks amateurish. You are open to constructive criticism aren't you? 

And by the way I'll send you a copy of my book when it's out, autographed and all.  

Cheers
Snake :goodnight


----------



## tech/a (2 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*



			
				Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> Well, you have really stood out like GOD on this one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yes your right.
My office manager did it in 97 I think. Learnt a lot from it around 20000 hits with no search engines really. Still Retaining Wall Construction isnt the sort of industry which gets millions of hits.Having a second newer and shorter one produced now actually. Thanks for the candid reply.

Lookforward to your book---on stochastics no doubt.


----------



## brisvegas (3 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*

Tech for what its worth i think you are the best value on ASF . I  have nothing but respect for critical thinkers . keep on keeping em honest

.............. pete


----------



## kaveman (3 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*

Paper trading cannot completely be same as real trading due to the effects of actually having real money at risk, as was said above.
To me it is an integral part of teting a trading system. backtesting is the first step to see if it would have made money in different periods of history, but as the market is always changing, and inded the stocks themselves are changing you need to see if the system can work in the current climate. It also helps with any fine tuning that yu can do with the progress of the teting being slower than backtesting
If a system makes no money in backteting or paper trading how can you expect it to make mooney in real trading? I always look at it that I coould possibly make half the returns, or double the losses, in real trading compared to paper trading to allow for the psychology effects


----------



## tech/a (3 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*



			
				tech/a said:
			
		

> I can take emotion completely out of the equation for you or any trader.
> 
> No it has nothing to do with being a systems trader/user.
> It is however a very clear example of stepping outside of the herd of sheep.
> ...




Thanks Kave some good points.


I'd have thought that those who truely believe this "Trueism" would be champing at the bit to see how they can remove the dreaded emotional roller coaster from their trading!!

Appears then that no body suffers from this affliction---??

*How did others over come the emotional side of their trading then?*


----------



## Happy (3 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*

Tech/a cannot give anybody any specific recommendations like buy this sell something else, you have to go to Nick Radge for that, and his Chartist or any other licensed adviser if you don’t need good track record as a guarantee of high standard and high success rate.

Not that Tech/a doesn’t have a clue, but he is gagged like everybody else who has no license.

Tech/a comments are golden, and best if we can use them.

If we are successful beyond need of help, lets leave the gems to be picked up by somebody else.


I love paper trading and recommend to anyone.

Have different trading methods mastered for different market and stock phases.
Try different ideas, put them through back testing if you can and above all master them.

When you can do it automatically and have no emotions, just motions, do it with real money.

When you start to double-cross yourself, tinker beyond logic and get emotional, go back to paper trading, get mechanical and try again.


----------



## doctorj (3 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*

I'm a fairly emotional person.  Always have been and always will be.  When I first started trading and I realised many of my decisions were becoming emotive I ended up using it as an indicator for trades I was on (ie. when I was sold on the fact I was going to make a tonne on a particular trade and should by more, I sold) - that actually worked pretty well.  Mentally it took a toll though and it didn't help with the entry, risk and was against letting profits run.

Nowadays I do my best to manage it.  If I'm watching a trade, I'll still experience the range of emotions attached to the realisation of the $ effect of the trade. Objectively, I do my best to realise when I'm experiencing these moments and take a step back.  Each trade I take, I will write down the entry/exit conditions, reason for the trade etc so during these moments where emotion gets the better of me I reread this and have the discipline not to act.

My motions still can fluctuate with my equity curve.  I guess I have gotten past the whole "that won't happen to me" bit after reading about emotions and trading in book after book and I can admit fear and greed can get the better of me.  In time I think the times I experience these emotions will become fewer as I take more trades and have the discipline to play by my own rules.


----------



## websman (3 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*

Paper trading sucks.  I recommend jumping in with cash, but taking small positions.  You have to learn to control your emotions and you can't do this while paper trading.  There's a big differnece btween losing money on paper and losing real money.

Webs...


----------



## Happy (3 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*

Well, only if you don’t apply your trading method.

People spend some hours on flight simulator for example, then applying what they learned in real flight they can do it and they can do it well.

But I don’t want to make impression that anybody has to do what I do.


----------



## websman (3 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*



			
				Happy said:
			
		

> Well, only if you don’t apply your trading method.
> 
> People spend some hours on flight simulator for example, then applying what they learned in real flight they can do it and they can do it well.
> 
> But I don’t want to make impression that anybody has to do what I do.




Good point my friend.  Everyone needs to develop their own style of trading.  what works for one may not work for another.
 :drink:


----------



## robots (3 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*

To Atomic Sheep,

think about being a long term investor with your $1000.00

a stock like reece(plumbing) for example if you put $1000.00 in around the mid 70's would now be worth around 4 million (reinvesting distributions) similar story with many other stocks.

look for companies that are in the top200, every day companies, they will all go through different economic cycles and therefore the ups and downs but will appreciate well

no doubt have some fun (and agony), but put aside into quality

regards
robots


----------



## kaveman (3 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*



			
				websman said:
			
		

> Paper trading sucks.  I recommend jumping in with cash, but taking small positions.  You have to learn to control your emotions and you can't do this while paper trading.  There's a big differnece btween losing money on paper and losing real money.
> 
> Webs...




How do you know if a system can be profitable if you do not test it in real time? Backtesting is only as good as your's and the software abilities to create trading system in code. Why would you throw money at something if you ahd no idea if it can make profits?


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (3 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*



			
				kaveman said:
			
		

> How do you know if a system can be profitable if you do not test it in real time? Backtesting is only as good as your's and the software abilities to create trading system in code. Why would you throw money at something if you ahd no idea if it can make profits?




kaveman,

There are two points I would like to make here:

1. Nothing is guaranteed in the market, regardless of backtesting and the like.
2. Paper trading is not accurate enough to be taken seriously.

Those who paper trade may see some benefits but may be disillusioned or mislead as to the future outcomes of their trading methodology.

These are just my thoughts and don't mean others are wrong or right.

Regards
Snake


----------



## tech/a (3 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*

I agree with points in both.

*Papertrading shouldnt be confused with systematic or system trading--*

I certaintly agree with Kave to trade in any way without having an idea if at the end of a period you'll be nett profitable is just plain crazy.
97% do it-- one or even a dozen winning trades doesnt guarentee a consistent profit. *But I'd rather travel with a road map that was correct at the time of printing than with none at all!!*

Nothing is guarenteed in the market place---well in the short term possibly however in my lifetime 51 yrs Buying and holding most of the top 100 stocks GUARENTEED profit. I can also guarentee every trader that if they,

(1) Have more winners than losers

AND OR

(2) Have bigger winners than all accumulated losers

They are guarenteed to be nett profitable.

As for paper trading not being accurate that is entirely determined by the recording skill of the trader using it and the period of time you test it.

Finally traders who do not exhaustively test their methods could well be dis allusioned---
The discretionary trader with no testing normally finds himself locked in losses as he cannot afford to take the loss,rather than locked in winners reluctant to take profits!.

Yes Paper trading *ISNT THE * answer I agree whole heartedly but can be the basis of a methodology.I think new traders without the technology are really up against it.

There are a whole lot out there without a map.


----------



## kaveman (3 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*

I am confused with this
If you do not test a system how do you know if it can give profit returns?
I agree that paper trading is not like reak trading, but is it not better to start real trading having had some experience at not-so-real trading.

Does anyone here trade a system with real money wthout doing any testing to see if the system has positive expectancy (ie expect it to have agood chance of returning profits?)

Perhaps you dd not finish reading what I wrote on the paper trading?
I expect real returns to be at best half profitable as paper trading.


> I always look at it that I coould possibly make half the returns, or double the losses, in real trading compared to paper trading to allow for the psychology effects




Perhaps you only use backtesting for proving to yourself that a system could make money. But what stocks do you base the testing on? If it is the ones you will be trading then you ahve to remember that the charts of the past are not necessarily the charts of the present or future. Perhaps one of those stocks had a large upwing going from 50cent to $5, but will it do the same in the future going from $5 to $50 in the smae timeframe? So many variables make a chart different from time to time and from price to price.

But without some testing, you can never know if a system has positive expectancy even though that testing is flawed. But it is better to base your trading on a system that has shown its worth than to trust a non-tested system with your real money?


----------



## tech/a (3 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*

Graham 
For what its worth I agree.


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (3 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*



> Perhaps you only use backtesting for proving to yourself that a system could make money. But what stocks do you base the testing on? If it is the ones you will be trading then you ahve to remember that the charts of the past are not necessarily the charts of the present or future. Perhaps one of those stocks had a large upwing going from 50cent to $5, but will it do the same in the future going from $5 to $50 in the smae timeframe? So many variables make a chart different from time to time and from price to price.
> 
> But without some testing, you can never know if a system has positive expectancy even though that testing is flawed. But it is better to base your trading on a system that has shown its worth than to trust a non-tested system with your real money?




Kaveman you have raised some good points.

Backtesting stocks in different conditions and time frames surely would not be representative of future results. It, however, would determine one's positive expectancy or negative expectancy - the predominant aspect of backtesting - with regards to one's system. That I do agree with.

Paper trading is not something traders should base their trading philosophy and methodology on though. Only real experience can help shape this, which has always been my point. 

Snake


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (4 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*



			
				websman said:
			
		

> What's wrong with the doll thing???




It won't kiss me!  

Snake


----------



## Bobby (30 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*



			
				tech/a said:
			
		

> I agree with points in both.
> 
> *Papertrading shouldnt be confused with systematic or system trading--*
> 
> ...




Hi Tech,
That road map you talk about that 97% don't use,  think I need one , can you recommend a book on how to get the maps ?
Hope you know what I mean  .

Cheers Bob.


----------



## bullmarket (30 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*

Hi Bobby

There are heaps of books on charting, fundamental analysis etc etc but one that goes a bit deeper and takes you though a step by step process in putting together what you know about charting and fundamental analysis into a written trading plan (roadmap as mentioned in other posts) is "Trading with a Plan" by Compton and Kendall....a very good read imo.

Good luck 

bullmarket


----------



## tech/a (30 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*



			
				Bobby said:
			
		

> Hi Tech,
> That road map you talk about that 97% don't use,  think I need one , can you recommend a book on how to get the maps ?
> Hope you know what I mean  .
> 
> Cheers Bob.




Bob about 5 yrs ago a few of us posed the same question and came up with an answer.
This is the result and its been traded for 3 yrs +.

The method is called Techtrader but more than the method the search and the understanding of What makes any trading method profitable is way more important than the methods success.

I'm nearly finished a summary for the site below as there are over 1500 posts for new people to wade through.

http://lightning.he.net/cgi-bin/suid/~reefcap/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=74

Even better its FREE.


----------



## Happy (30 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*

Providing you can put up with the format


----------



## Bobby (30 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*

Tech :
Thanks for the link, have registed & now wait approval so as to read your map!.
Much appreciated.
Bob.

Bullmarket;
Nice of you to give that information.
Thankyou .
Bob.


----------



## tech/a (30 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*



			
				Happy said:
			
		

> Providing you can put up with the format




Dont know whats happened there.
I posted 4 sections of the Summary and only the code section remains.

The first 3 have disappeared on my screen???

I've mailed Nick so Will see.


----------



## RichKid (30 December 2005)

*Re: Beginner*



			
				tech/a said:
			
		

> Dont know whats happened there.
> I posted 4 sections of the Summary and only the code section remains.
> 
> The first 3 have disappeared on my screen???
> ...




Tech, will be good if you could post the same here in a new (eg 'Techrader summary') or current techtrader thread- thanks in advance. It won't disappear, Joe is very careful to preserve material and keeps an eye on technical glitches.


----------



## zarfius (11 March 2008)

*Where to begin?*

Hi

I am interested in learning more about short term trading (not day trading, more weeks or months).

I realise that what I am asking can take years of practice and I'm certainly not going to blindly jump in and trust any particular method. I also realise that there is no such thing as 100% certain when it comes to trading.

What I am looking for is some tutorials on the basics of picking, entering and exiting short term trades. I'd like to learn more about how each of the indicators work and how to put a probability on price movement.

This might be in the form of book's or online tutorials, or maybe I just have to keep asking questions but I'm sure getting you guy's to point me in the right direction is better than blindly googleing for answers


----------



## doctorj (11 March 2008)

*Re: Where to begin?*

At the risk of sounding like a wanky walking cliche, I think the best place is to sit down and work out some goals.

Have a think about what kind of returns you'd like to get, what risk you're prepared to take and what drawdowns you can tolerate.

These inputs will begin to define the what and how aspects of your trading and then you can better direct your efforts toward which instruments/markets/indicators/methods you're going to study.  As you study you can refine your goals and at the end of it you should have some sort of workable trading plan.


----------



## zarfius (11 March 2008)

*Re: Where to begin?*

I have been thinking about my goals. 

Without using the wanky walking cliche "I want to be a millionare"  lol
but seriously.. 

Long Term Goal:
By the time I retire (sooner rather than later ) I want to be living off "passive income". By this I mean, dividends, rental income and income from shares in my own business.

I realise that's a bit of a broad goal since I don't really know how much money I am going to need to live the lifestyle I want.

Short Term Goal:
My short term goal by the end of the year is to have the skills required to make a few trades during the year to increase my return compared with a buy and hold strategy.

In the short term I am only concerned with getting the hang of some strategies in practice mode, playing sharemarket games, watchlists, and backtesting.


----------



## Infest (22 May 2008)

*Where to begin?*

Hey guys.  Currently discussing about investing in shares on another forum and was pointed in this direction.

So, I was just wondering, where do I start?  I don't know much of anything when it comes to this kind of stuff.  I want to start with $1000 and go from there.  I was told "Managed funds".  Is this a healthy choice?  Can anyone recommend me anything better?  I only just turned 18, therefore am a bit tight with money.  I have also just created a term deposit ($30,000) so this have left me with just over $1000.  

Any recommendations and advice would be extrememly greatful.

Thanks guys.


----------



## disarray (22 May 2008)

*Re: Where to begin?*

what do you want to do? invest your money for a few months / years in a sound company or trade shorter time frames and try and be in/out with quick profit? i found myself that this is a huge field with many different methods, timeframes and applications, any one of which can make you money.

to get involved in the market you need a broker account, and brokers charge fees when you use them - the big banks all have share broking services and you'll pay $20 - $40 per trade. $1000 is really not enough capital to start out because the fees you pay will take up a decent percentage of your money.

if you are serious about getting involved then read a few books (stan weinstein secrets for profiting in bull and bear markets is a good beginners book that will introduce you to the basic concepts) and decide how you want to play the game, all the while saving more money so you can start from a decent position. if you jump into the market with $1000 not knowing what you are doing (especially with the market as it is now) you'll just piss your money up against the wall.


----------



## Infest (22 May 2008)

*Re: Where to begin?*



> what do you want to do?




Without researching, I would like to have both "quick" and "long term" investments.


----------



## Julia (22 May 2008)

*Re: Where to begin?*

Congratulations on having a $30K term deposit and $1000 left over at age 18.

Great that you're taking responsibility for your financial good health.  I reckon you'll be able to retire at 40!

For basic understanding of how the stockmarket works go to the ASX website
www.asx.com.au and read through their Education section.  That will describe the various approaches and give you an idea of whether you want to be a fundamental investor or take a technical approach.
I agree with Disarray about Stan Weinstein's "Secrets for Profiting in Bull and Bear markets".  

Buying lots of books (and several will no doubt be recommended in response to your question) can chew up a chunk of your available money so I'd suggest the ASX website first of all.

Good luck.


----------



## Infest (22 May 2008)

*Re: Where to begin?*



			
				Julia said:
			
		

> I reckon you'll be able to retire at 40!




Haha, I have along way to go before there.  But thanks for the vote in confidence.  I actually have $3000 left over, but $2000 of that has gone to a friend as he needed it.  He should be able to pay me back soon.


----------



## im_daniel (3 November 2008)

*Absolute beginner: Where do I begin?*

hi guys Im completely unfamiliar with the sharemarket and stocks, im 16 years old and have saved up around A$2000, i was looking into investing so i thought i would look to this site for some help, only to realise how much i didnt know ie T/A ? F/A ? etc. 
Does any1 have suggestions as to sites/books to start my journey into the sharemarkets, and gain knowledge about T/A and stock selection, also who to trade with ie commsec, etrade etc which would be best for a novice trader with around A$2000-A$5000 to invest.  

thanks for your help I would really apreciate it


----------



## $20shoes (3 November 2008)

*Re: absolute beginner *



im_daniel said:


> hi guys Im completely unfamiliar with the sharemarket and stocks, im 16 years old and have saved up around A$2000, i was looking into investing so i thought i would look to this site for some help, only to realise how much i didnt know ie T/A ? F/A ? etc.
> Does any1 have suggestions as to sites/books to start my journey into the sharemarkets, and gain knowledge about T/A and stock selection, also who to trade with ie commsec, etrade etc which would be best for a novice trader with around A$2000-A$5000 to invest.
> 
> thanks for your help I would really apreciate it




Welcome to the forum Daniel. There is a lot of information to absorb and there are an almost inifinite number of opinions on how to trade and when ( hence, we have a market, right?) How actively involved you want to be with your investments may determine the best investment method for you. 
Most people will tell you that you are substantially undercapitalised, because you cannot spread your risk/adequately protect your capital. They would be right. And then Daniel, how do you plan to protect yourself in a market?? Will you be able to tolerate a 5% loss of your capital?? A 10% loss, a 50% loss??? Are you happy for your equity to decrease by 80% so long as it recovers in 5 years time??

Are you seeking value?? Value is an arbitrary term - is good value investing in a share that moves sideways for 3 years?? Is it value if it moves sideways for 3 years but pays dividends?? Is it good value if your stock moves 15%, but other indices 40%??

When I was a younger tacker, I put all my 21st money into Woolies and it paid off handsomely. But I knew nothing about a trading strategy, risk, probability or PRESERVING YOUR CAPITAL AT ALL COSTS. IT was just a punt that paid off....Years later, after knowing a fair bit more, I lost heavily on BDG...There's nothing like a bit of pain to focus your attention Daniel, and you simply cannot afford to lose your hard earned dollars. Sometimes though, mistakes are the best teachers.

I know a lot of investors are on the sidelines now - money in cash...Nothing wrong with that. Have you looked at managed funds which might be a worthwhile option that you can keep adding in to...??

Stick around here if you have an avid interest...read as much as you can about different strategies...some people will use Fundamental data, others will use charts (Technical Analysis) others will use both. 

Don't rush in unprepared. There will always be opportunities. Trying to catch a bottom while your undercapitalised is fraught with danger. If you get burnt now, you may not come back.


----------



## Julia (3 November 2008)

*Re: Absolute beginner: Where do I begin?*

Daniel, that's just a great effort to have saved that much at 16.  Good for you.

I'd suggest a good place to start would be the ASX website - go to their education section. 
www.asx.com.au.
 This will explain how the market works and allow you to work your way through the sections which give an outline of how FA (fundamental analysis) and TA (technical analysis) work as tools for selection and timing of buying and selling.

By the time you've done that, there might be a more clear idea of where everything is going.  Might be best not to rush in with your hard saved money right now.

All the best.

Julia


----------



## So_Cynical (3 November 2008)

*Re: Absolute beginner: Where do I begin?*

As Julia said...the ASX site is a great place to start.

Education & Resources > Education > Online classes > Online classes 
http://www.asx.com.au/resources/education/classes/online.htm#getting_started_in_shares

Make an account and get some watchlists going too.


----------



## fimmwolf (4 November 2008)

*Re: Absolute beginner: Where do I begin?*

As far as suggestions for books goes, have a look in this thread: https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11507&highlight=books

I particularly enjoyed the book by Nicholas Darvas "how I made 2 million in the stock market"
it's a quick read, only 160 pages or so, but well worth your time.

I'm currently reading "The business of share trading" by Leon Wilson. Based on what I've read thus far, I would also recommend it.


----------



## Sean K (4 November 2008)

*Re: Absolute beginner: Where do I begin?*

And, once you're sick of reading, there's nothing better than actually making a trade to really begin....


----------



## awg (4 November 2008)

*Re: Absolute beginner: Where do I begin?*

Hi Daniel,

searching ASF posts is a good way to start.(free)

your local library has a range of books on the topics (free)

having said that, you would probably want to own at least one or two good texts as reference

dont get sucked in too easily to anything at first,take your time!!.

register on Incredible Charts (free)...mindblowing amount of info.

also "Big Charts"

Search the net for various other blogs and info sites.

by the time u absorb all that u will be 18!

It is not very practical to be a share investor until you are 18, due to various impediments (unless you already have a tfn)..others may disagree


----------



## im_daniel (4 November 2008)

*Re: Absolute beginner: Where do I begin?*

hey thanks everyone for your replies, 
I guess i have allot to learn when it comes to shares, its time well spent in the end if i end up a succesfull share trader 
anywayz  does any1 have sugestions for good trade simulators that would be good practice, i cant seem to find ones that are australian and others are usually already started 

thanks


----------



## prawn_86 (4 November 2008)

*Re: Absolute beginner: Where do I begin?*

You can just paper trade, you dont need a specific program.

Just keep a spreadsheet of what price you would buy and sell different stocks at.


----------



## im_daniel (4 November 2008)

*Re: Absolute beginner: Where do I begin?*



prawn_86 said:


> You can just paper trade, you dont need a specific program.
> 
> Just keep a spreadsheet of what price you would buy and sell different stocks at.




yer thanks i could do that , but isnt there an easyier way which simulates actually buying and selling stock ? (without using you own money)


----------



## MRC & Co (4 November 2008)

*Re: Absolute beginner: Where do I begin?*

lol, the overwhelming start hey!

You found a good site, plenty of info here, read read read this site and you will get a basic idea about the various types of traders there are out there and the analysis used.  

Don't even know where to tell you to begin, except what I said above.

You have to work out what suits your personality (scalping, swing trading, position trading, momentum trading, or longer-term investing), T/A or F/A?  And even once you are done with that, you have to work out which methods you wish to use within that.  There are different forms of fundamental analysis and technical analysis (Volume spread analysis, elliot wave, breakouts of traditional patterns etc).  And then comes the actual important part, how are you going to take that method, apply it, find your own way of using it and realise your edge.  Then comes the never ending psychological and discipline issues a trader goes through.  

I would recommend once you have read read read, sign up to The Chartist for at least a few months if that is all you can afford, and watch the nightly videos and power set-ups and how they unfold on that site.  You will learn a STACK about what works and about application. 

Enjoy that journey, long, fun and thoroughly rewarding if it's your true passion.

Cheers

P.S  Most of that was probably WAY over your head, but that is natural, just keep your head down and learn (and then the most important part, apply).


----------



## im_daniel (4 November 2008)

*Re: Absolute beginner: Where do I begin?*



MRC & Co said:


> lol, the overwhelming start hey!
> 
> You found a good site, plenty of info here, read read read this site and you will get a basic idea about the various types of traders there are out there and the analysis used.
> 
> ...




thanks for your advice i have already started on the "read read read" part


----------



## kam75 (4 November 2008)

*Re: Absolute beginner: Where do I begin?*



im_daniel said:


> thanks for your advice i have already started on the "read read read" part




Books to study:

1. Reminiscences of a Stock Operator - Edwin le Fevre
2. How I made 2 million in the Stockmarket - Nicolas Darvas
3. Secrets for Profiting in Bull & Bear Markets - Stan Weinstein

Read and study the above books and try to save up more funds before you play the market.  2k is simply not enough, regardless of the type of trading you'll choose to do.  At least 10k is needed in my opinion to set up your risk and money management rules.   Oh and stay away from all spruikers and seminar sellers flogging off courses!!!  They all suck.
All the best.


----------



## prawn_86 (4 November 2008)

*Re: Absolute beginner: Where do I begin?*



kam75 said:


> Read and study the above books and try to save up more funds before you play the market.  2k is simply not enough, regardless of the type of trading you'll choose to do.  At least 10k is needed in my opinion to set up your risk and money management rules.   Oh and stay away from all spruikers and seminar sellers flogging off courses!!!  They all suck.
> All the best.




2k is fine if you just want to buy 1 or 2 stocks for a long term hold. A lot will get eaten up in purchase costs, but providing your not 'trading' then its enough to start with. Have to start somewhere...


----------



## beamstas (5 November 2008)

*Re: Absolute beginner: Where do I begin?*

Hey daniel.

Im 19, so still sort of young, here is my advice.
I read alot and found some things to buy, i too started with 2k. Find something that suits you. Do you want to hold for a long time or buy and sell alot? Are you prepared to wait for returns? Do you want capital growth or dividends?

The thing that made me learn the most is just jumping in the deep end 

But don't be afraid to loose  or more though at the current situation. By the time your 18 the bear may be gone and you can learn on a bull!

And prepare yourself for alot of this if you jump in right now 

The best experience and lessons learned are often the most expensive.. so be careful  



prawn_86 said:


> 2k is fine if you just want to buy 1 or 2 stocks for a long term hold. A lot will get eaten up in purchase costs, but providing your not 'trading' then its enough to start with. Have to start somewhere...




Very True. The brokerage on commsec is 20.00, so you are basically *loosing* 1% of your capital every time you trade. 5 buys and 5 sells and you are saying goodbye to 10% of your capital in brokerage alone.


----------



## Medici (24 June 2009)

*Green Beginner*

Hi every one.
recently i have inherited some money and have to admit that looking at them sitting in bank account is like watching the grass grow.
I would love to invest (trading) in shares, but i have to say i am at the same question you all have at the beginning.
Where do i start ?
I did have webinar with elite traders, but the starting cost (over $4500) is pretty much to high. They do have learning curve of 21 days to get you trading and SMS alert advice on margin stock.
Is there any book (first steps) any one could recommend for a beginner ?

Appreciate your help.

Regards

Medici


----------



## beamstas (24 June 2009)

*Re: Green Beginner*



Medici said:


> Hi every one.
> recently i have inherited some money and have to admit that looking at them sitting in bank account is like watching the grass grow.
> I would love to invest (trading) in shares, but i have to say i am at the same question you all have at the beginning.
> Where do i start ?
> ...




For a total beginner i'd read Adaptive Analysis By Nick Radge or maybe even Share Trading by Guppy


----------



## Julia (24 June 2009)

*Re: Green Beginner*

Before you buy any books, or even faintly consider buying any of the multitude of stock picking programmes out there, read through all of the Education section on the ASX website so that at least you know how the market works, what the lingo is etc.

www.asx.com.au


----------



## Boggo (24 June 2009)

*Re: Green Beginner*



Julia said:


> Before you buy any books, or even faintly consider buying any of the multitude of stock picking programmes out there, read through all of the Education section on the ASX website so that at least you know how the market works, what the lingo is etc.
> 
> www.asx.com.au




Agree, and when you do decide on your first book I would suggest _Stan Weinstein's Secrets for Profiting in Bull and Bear Markets_ while using free software such as Incredible charts (http://www.incrediblecharts.com/online_charts/free_download.php) to practice the application of the theory.
There is also a lot of useful info under the Education tab on that site.

Then read the first 30 or so pages of Adaptive Analysis by Nick Radge again and again until you are capable briefing someone on it.

Once you have done that then you will be capable of knowing what you are being sold as a training course and will be able to recognise bulldust at 100 paces.

I remember reading somewhere years ago that trading is like walking a tightrope, and that paper trading is like walking a tightrope while it is lying on the ground, you have to do the latter bit first though otherwise you will just lose your mula and will end up doing it anyway.

That's my


----------



## GumbyLearner (24 June 2009)

*Re: Green Beginner*

Just don't buy anything involving Malcolm Turnbull.

He used to make bucks logging the Solomon Islands. But remember it's all Krudd's fault, not Turnkrudds!


----------



## kam75 (24 June 2009)

*Re: Green Beginner*

Take the advise of Boggo and read Weinstein's book.  It's brilliant.  I remember back in 2003 when I first read it.  Stan's a great writer and his book "The Secrets to Profiting in Bull and Bear Markets" easily rates as one of the best books ever written on how to trade profitably in the markets.  It will far outclass any $4000 share course.


----------



## Medici (24 June 2009)

*Re: Green Beginner*

Lots of info.
Appreciate your help 
Looks like my education starts tomorrow.

Thank You All 

Medici


----------



## Mr J (25 June 2009)

*Re: Green Beginner*

I'd only suggest trading if you're going to take it quite seriously. Most investors don't seem to.


----------



## brianwh (25 June 2009)

*Re: Green Beginner*

I have just had a "google" around but couldn't find what I was looking for but there are figures around that suggest that something like 90% of traders (as opposed to investors) go out backwards within 12 months. I know these figures sound a bit scary so maybe I have it wrong. It might have been in something Marcus Paddley wrote. Anyway somebody else may have better information.


----------



## Semillon (25 June 2009)

*Re: Green Beginner*

Is there a particular reason you are looking at trading as opposed to longer term investing?


----------



## Mr J (25 June 2009)

*Re: Green Beginner*



brianwh said:


> I have just had a "google" around but couldn't find what I was looking for but there are figures around that suggest that something like 90% of traders (as opposed to investors) go out backwards within 12 months. I know these figures sound a bit scary so maybe I have it wrong. It might have been in something Marcus Paddley wrote. Anyway somebody else may have better information.




The often-quoted figure is that 95% of traders lose. This has probably been misinterpreted and/or exaggerated, but one stat I did read was a brokerage report where apparently 70%+ of their clients were losers over a certain period. The figure itself doesn't matter, as the fact is that most people cannot trade profitably. There are many reasons why a trader may fail, such as being overly-aggressive, lack of willpower (i.e. give up), lack of effort, lack of skill, lack of mental fortitude, inadequate capital or management, simply unlucky etc. 

The odds are against you, but you can improve them significantly by taking it slowly, becoming informed, and becoming comfortable.



> Is there a particular reason you are looking at trading as opposed to longer term investing?




Because he hopes for a proper return on his capital :.


----------



## Medici (25 June 2009)

*Re: Green Beginner*

Well...
I am a independent person and hate to see my retirement days depending on government scrappy pension.
Yes i am serious about trading and as i stated my learning begins today (already placed order for some books).
I also understand risk involvement with trading, but i will not get anywhere if i sit on my bum and do nothing while i have chance to improve my social situation (being not dependent on pension only).
I have to admit that being a little conservative, my choices of stock would be ASX 200.
In the time when all stocks went down i did not have the money to get my shares, but i told all my friends that " this is the time to get shares - BHP and RIO - Westpac and NAB" as my feeling has been of only minor down in shares value.
And yes, i was right. If i did have money then i would make some good return on my "investments".
But, this is history and now is a new chapter. I  do have some money and i believe that with good home work and study i will achieve my goals.

Medici


----------



## johenmo (25 June 2009)

*Re: Green Beginner*



Medici said:


> ....i believe that with good home work and study i will achieve my goals.
> Medici




A lot depends on how involved you want to be.  Amibroker is a great programme - cheap - but you have to learn to programme,  But even just basics as getting price and volume is relatively easy.  Can download a trial version which is fine for me atm.

Preparation beats luck most of the time.


----------



## jono1887 (25 June 2009)

*Re: Green Beginner*

There is really no need to spend alot of money on educational resources. Theres plenty free stuff out there on the internet and on this forum.


----------



## Mr J (25 June 2009)

*Re: Green Beginner*

It's good that you're motivated, as I think passive investing, funds, savings accounts etc are a horrible waste of capital. I read some books, but I mostly devoured everything on trading forums, as forums are an awesome source of information. Much of it is rubbish, but there are always gems to be found.



> In the time when all stocks went down i did not have the money to get my shares, but i told all my friends that " this is the time to get shares - BHP and RIO - Westpac and NAB" as my feeling has been of only minor down in shares value.
> And yes, i was right. If i did have money then i would make some good return on my "investments".




I wouldn't consider this a positive. Perhaps you do have an amazing ability to pick stocks on intuition, but it was likely just chance. There are a few concepts that a trader really should understand, such as probability, variance, and expected value. 

Probability: The value given to any possible outcome of an event. Example, the probability of heads on a coinflip is about 50%. We realise that outcomes are not certain, and use this knowledge to adjust our ego and apply sensible risk management. A winning trade is not necessarily a good trade, as even a coinflipper is right half the time.

Variance: The measure meant of results deviating from the mean. Example, going flipping heads twice in a row instead of 50% heads, 50% tails. Why it is important? Shorterm results are misleading, and by shorterm I mean regarding sample size, not time. Even a coinflipper can win 5 in a row, or 30 out of 40. If the sample is statistically insignificant, then so are the results.

Expected Value: In trading terms this would be our expected profit or loss. It is formed by combining probability and price. More specifically, the size and probability our profits compared to the size and probability of our losses. Why is it important? Without it we will not profit over the longrun. We may experience good shorterm results, but we know that shorterm results are meaningless. Without a positive expected value, a trader can only rely on luck to succeed, and this is a very poor approach.

I think once a trader thinks about everything in terms of probability and price, the rest may fall into place.


----------



## ilyuck (3 November 2011)

*Please help a beginner out! *

hey every one I am 14 and I want to start investing in some stocks but I'm not too sure how much money I should invest because I have no clue about investing or the stock market but I want to start learning. do you think it is a bad idea for me to start investing so young? should I start with a few hundred dollars or save a couple thousand? how is the best way to learn all of these terms people are using? should invest independently or with an investment agency(is there such a thing? )? I'M sure these questions get asked a lot and I'M sorry if you are tired of them but I don't know who else to talk to about this  

Thanks 

Jake


----------



## snsdmonkey (3 November 2011)

*Re: Please help a beginner out! *

Haha firstly welcome to the forums little man. I bought my first stock when I was in Year 7, about 6 years ago. It was Newcrest and I did pretty well of it, went from $18 to $31 if I remember correctly. But in all honesty I knew nothing about the sharemarket even though I read the newspaper quite frequently. 

14 is too young I reckon. Don't put in any money at the moment, I would say start off with at least 2k to do anything, 5k for anything remotely decent. You learn nothing in high school that helps you with stocks and most of the stuff on here is too technical for you at the moment. But you can always start early, ASX has sharemarket games for you to play which is a good place to start out. Try and take it seriously, don't give up if you lose money on it because it's fake and keep going. See how much you can make/lose.

Browse around the forums I guess to try and learn. Read some simple books, nothing on technical analysis at this stage and see how you go.

Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions. I've probably missed a lot of stuff as well so others feel free to critique my response haha.

Cheers


----------



## johenmo (3 November 2011)

*Re: Please help a beginner out! *

The market is in poor shape and very difficult for the proven.  Spend a year or three red the education stuff on the ASX, do the ASX sharemarket game, you can get free demo accounts for currency trading.  And threads here on ASF for (nearly) everything.

Learn the biggest hurdle you will have to overcome is yourself.  There are numerous posts about books for beginners.  The same messages are delivered.  It's about finding a writing style that you gel with.

The bigger the capital base the easier it is to weather dips.

Whatever you do with shares etc, don't trade without a stop loss.


----------



## So_Cynical (3 November 2011)

*Re: Please help a beginner out! *



johenmo said:


> Whatever you do with shares etc, don't trade without a stop loss.




He wants to invest not trade.



ilyuck said:


> hey every one I am 14 and I want to start* investing *in some stocks




The rest of johenmo's post was pretty much spot on.

Take your time, save your money, get a stock market education, enter the share market games, keep reading the financial papers and blogs etc....hang around this forum, find out what interests you and what your comfortable with..set up some watch lists and add stocks at the current price and keep coming back to see how your doin.


----------



## snsdmonkey (3 November 2011)

*Re: Please help a beginner out! *



So_Cynical said:


> He wants to invest not trade.




Probably doesn't know the difference LOL


----------



## ilyuck (3 November 2011)

*Re: Please help a beginner out! *

I think I know the difference investing is long term and trading is short term is that right if I'm wrong I will probably sound really stupid haha so I'm sorry for that


----------



## snsdmonkey (3 November 2011)

*Re: Please help a beginner out! *



ilyuck said:


> I think I know the difference investing is long term and trading is short term is that right if I'm wrong I will probably sound really stupid haha so I'm sorry for that




Spot on. Think I underestimated you. I was thrown off by 'some stocks'. You know brokerage is like $15-25 depending on who you use, and I would think with the type of money that you have (assuming you're not getting massive wages or pocket money), that you should only be targeting 1 stock.


----------



## Julia (3 November 2011)

*Re: Please help a beginner out! *

Start by absorbing what is going on in the world.  Understand why markets move.
viz presently the debacle that is occurring in Europe.  

Imo no one should embark on trading or investing without a background appreciation of geopolitics and finances.

Many didn't see the GFC coming.
If they'd been absorbing what was happening in the US and further afield, it would have been absolutely clear that a crisis was developing.


----------



## ilyuck (3 November 2011)

*Re: Please help a beginner out! *



snsdmonkey said:


> Spot on. Think I underestimated you. I was thrown off by 'some stocks'. You know brokerage is like $15-25 depending on who you use, and I would think with the type of money that you have (assuming you're not getting massive wages or pocket money), that you should only be targeting 1 stock.



 i do have a job at coles i get paid about 60- 120$ a week not much but im not paying eny tax or board or enything so i get it all. and i thought that was right i just wanst all sure and if i was to invest how much should i invest for how long or does that depend on how the market is going?


----------



## snsdmonkey (3 November 2011)

*Re: Please help a beginner out! *

Well the best thing I can recommend is to stick all your money into a term deposit, or high interest savings account (so you can continue to add your pay into it) and during that year or so, learn more about shares. It'll do you a world of good and once you have a better idea of shares you can start investing and you get to see something come out of your money as well


----------



## ilyuck (3 November 2011)

*Re: Please help a beginner out! *

you are all awesome thank you for your addvice and i hope you can keep helping me along the way  ill try and help people when/if i can as well


----------



## notting (3 November 2011)

*Re: Please help a beginner out! *

I'd do the above but tip it all into WBC shares instead of a term deposite.
That way you keep your tax free status, get a better pay out and feel the gain/pain in a pretty safe place.


----------



## ilyuck (3 November 2011)

*Re: Please help a beginner out! *



snsdmonkey said:


> Well the best thing I can recommend is to stick all your money into a term deposit, or high interest savings account (so you can continue to add your pay into it) and during that year or so, learn more about shares. It'll do you a world of good and once you have a better idea of shares you can start investing and you get to see something come out of your money as well



 I'm sorry but what is a term deposit and do you have a suggestion as a good high interest savings account? how much would it cost to open one and how manny fees would i have to pay?


----------



## Julia (3 November 2011)

*Re: Please help a beginner out! *



ilyuck said:


> I'm sorry but what is a term deposit and do you have a suggestion as a good high interest savings account? how much would it cost to open one and how manny fees would i have to pay?



 Have a look at this website:
http://www.infochoice.com.au/

It gives you most of the currently available accounts and their applicable interest rates.

A term deposit is where you deposit a fixed amount of money for a fixed term at a specific interest rate for that term.  e.g. $1000 @ 5% for twelve months.  The interest will usually be paid at the end of the term.  If you break the term, the penalties are very high, so you will need to be very sure you do not need the money before engaging in a term deposit.  Usually, the longer the term for which you commit the funds, the higher will be the interest rate.

You can often get an equivalent or even better interest rate in an online cash at call a/c where your money is available whenever you want it but is subject to a change in the interest at the discretion of the institution.  Most of them will offer X no of months at a fixed rate.
If you follow the link to "More Info" on the Infochoice link you will find all the details of each of the advertised term deposit, at call and ordinary savings accounts.

Good on you for taking such an interest in your financial future at the age of 14.


----------



## ilyuck (3 November 2011)

*Re: Please help a beginner out! *



Julia said:


> Have a look at this website:
> http://www.infochoice.com.au/
> 
> It gives you most of the currently available accounts and their applicable interest rates.
> ...



 thanks  for your help. I was wondering if I am to young to be looking into my financial future how old do you think I should be be4 I do start looking into it? I just figured why not start now I find it interesting and I guess the younger you start the better time you are going have understanding it all and I think it would be better learning about it without being worried about not being financially secure when I'm older and have to start thinking about this stuff. do you think this is right?


----------



## tothemax6 (3 November 2011)

*Re: Please help a beginner out! *



ilyuck said:


> thanks  for your help. I was wondering if I am to young to be looking into my financial future how old do you think I should be be4 I do start looking into it? I just figured why not start now I find it interesting and I guess the younger you start the better time you are going have understanding it all and I think it would be better learning about it without being worried about not being financially secure when I'm older and have to start thinking about this stuff. do you think this is right?



Exactly right. If you find it interesting then you can think of it as a good hobby. You will understand what to do with your money when you get older much more than other people.


----------



## skc (4 November 2011)

*Re: Please help a beginner out! *



ilyuck said:


> thanks  for your help. I was wondering if I am to young to be looking into my financial future how old do you think I should be be4 I do start looking into it? I just figured why not start now I find it interesting and I guess the younger you start the better time you are going have understanding it all and I think it would be better learning about it without being worried about not being financially secure when I'm older and have to start thinking about this stuff. do you think this is right?




You are not too young to be looking into your financial future. But the sharemarket shouldn't be the only direction you look.

At age 14 you should be thinking about education and future career... what interests you, where are your strengths and weaknesses etc etc. 

I know plenty of multi-millionaires who knew nothing about finance or shares. They are just well educated, highly motivated professionals who get paid alot. And I bet you there are far more of them than sharemarket gurus starting at the age of 14.

Not to pour cold water on you or anything... just thought you should get your priorities right.


----------



## investorpaul (4 November 2011)

*Re: Please help a beginner out! *

I started investing in the stock market when I was 12 (ten years ago now).

It was the BEST and SMARTEST decision I ever made.

Regardless if you lose money starting early will open you up to a hugely interesting and potentially rewarding field. It will force you to learn more, read more and gain a better understanding of what drives the world and individual companies.

I would say that you should only invest what you can afford to lose and don't expect to make a killing in on your first couple of investments.

I started with only $500 (all I had) before slowly saving more money and buyer ever bigger parcels of shares.

Some will say it is not worth the effort because the share price needs to rise by a fair margin just to cover the brokerage, but consider that $500 an investment in your future (not just the individual share).

Don't let others put you off. Go and borrow some books on investing from the library, read as much as you can on the stock market and stick with a "relatively" safe stock to start with.

Good luck


----------



## investorpaul (4 November 2011)

*Re: Please help a beginner out! *

Also I don't know how much money you have but sticking it in a term deposit (although safe) is:

A. Not very interesting
B. Not going to force you to research more about the markets or force you to analysis why a share went up or down
C. Earn you what? $50 - $100  each year? (if you have around $1k).

It all depends on your risk tolerance but dont be afraid to give anything a crack. 

The first share I bought was BBG I purchased it at $7.30 and it went down to the low $4's. This was the best thing that could have happened because it forced me to do one of two things:

1. Learn more and become a better investor or trade
2. Accept that I was going to lose money without committing time to do the research.

I took the first option


----------



## Sir Osisofliver (4 November 2011)

*Re: Please help a beginner out! *

ilyuck - Congratulations on becoming interested now. Here's a little secret for you and some guidance about where to begin...the earlier you start investing for the future the better off you will become - because of the benefits of compounding. Go find out about how compounding works.

In your shoes I would be trying to get some foundation learning happening.  Start a budget. Right now it appears that your finances are very simple, you work part-time and pay nothing to anyone else. This will become significantly more complex in the future so get into the habit now of using a budget to a) figure out what your disposable income is b) plan for future expenditure without going into *debt*.

Debt is *very* different to a liability. Debt (for example a credit card) is paid from income you have not earned yet. When you purchase an asset using borrowings, you have both a loan and an asset, which can be sold to extinguish the loan. See the difference?

Learn about risk. All the rich people I know have one thing in common - they know how to manage risk. Managing risk will lower the potential return that you can make, but increase the certainty of your return.

Assets fall into three broad categories. Shares/Property/Fixed Interest - It's a mistake to focus your attention on only one of these asset classes - each asset class will have an optimal period of investment.

Cheers

Sir O


----------



## Julia (4 November 2011)

*Re: Please help a beginner out! *



skc said:


> You are not too young to be looking into your financial future. But the sharemarket shouldn't be the only direction you look.
> 
> At age 14 you should be thinking about education and future career... what interests you, where are your strengths and weaknesses etc etc.
> 
> ...



Good advice, but it's my bet that this 14 year old already has determined his plans for a good education and career planning.


----------



## ilyuck (4 November 2011)

*Re: Please help a beginner out! *

Thanks all these are somereally wonderfull tips and ideas i will follow ur suggestions so thabk you for your help but i have one question how can i invest in property if im 14 wont it all cost a couple hundred grand to a couple million dollars also do u have eny suggestions as a good book to get me staryed

Thanks

Jake


----------



## ilyuck (4 November 2011)

*Re: Please help a beginner out! *



Sir Osisofliver said:


> ilyuck - Congratulations on becoming interested now. Here's a little secret for you and some guidance about where to begin...the earlier you start investing for the future the better off you will become - because of the benefits of compounding. Go find out about how compounding works.
> 
> In your shoes I would be trying to get some foundation learning happening.  Start a budget. Right now it appears that your finances are very simple, you work part-time and pay nothing to anyone else. This will become significantly more complex in the future so get into the habit now of using a budget to a) figure out what your disposable income is b) plan for future expenditure without going into *debt*.
> 
> ...



 Thanks i also wanted to say i have made a bugget here it is 20% of what i make a week i take out as cash to spend on such thing like movies and going out with friends then i split the 80% that is left over into 2 diffrent bank accounts one is for my investments and one is for if i need to buy clothres gifts stuff like that but if the 20% is less than 20$ i scrap that take out 20$ and half the rest into the two diffrebt bank accounts i just talked about is this a good start for a bugget? Im not really sure cause i neva made one be4

Thanks  

Jake


----------



## Idiode (4 November 2011)

*Re: Please help a beginner out! *



ilyuck said:


> i do have a job at coles i get paid about 60- 120$ a week not much but im not paying eny tax or board or enything so i get it all. and i thought that was right i just wanst all sure and if i was to invest how much should i invest for how long or does that depend on how the market is going?




Hello ilyuck,

You sound so much like my youngest son it's scary. 
At age 12 he worked as a Trolley Boy at KMart and like yourself was keen to "get into the stockmarket" with his free cash. 
Having been a stockmarket investor myself since age 20 I appreciated the benefits and dangers of this form of investment. But relalising how easily a young man can "blow" his hard earned cash on junk, I felt that he might as well blow it on something that would give him a better understanding of the financial world and possibly earn him a bit better than bank interest.
I took him to my Stockbroker who suggested he buy a small parcel of Pioneer Concrete (about $180 worth at the time which would probably exrapolate to about $1000 in todays money).
He earned a couple of dividends from Pioneer and ended selling the parcel at a nice little profit a couple of years later and reinvested in another stock which also performed well - Caltex I think. 
The major benefit of this was that because he had a personal holding, he learned to study a Balance Sheet, learned a lot about the market terminology, and gained some understanding of how the economy and the world of business operates. 
I am sure it influenced his thinking and enthusiasm at school and allowed him to relate his studies to the real world. He completed secondary education as one of the top students at his school and then followed with Degrees in Accounting and Business Law.
Some 25 years later neither of us are millionaires but I am sure we are much better off that we would have been without the benefit of the stockmarket.
My advice - Read, Read, Read everything you can lay your hands on. Only invest what you can afford to lose and keep some cash for a rainy day. Buy only (at good value) stocks that regularly pay a good fully franked dividend. 
I have mainly looked at investing for the long term. There are a lot of smarter people than me around who seem to do well at Trading (which requires a different technique). There are so many sources of information available today you could go mad trying to unravel them. Every stock has a good reason to Buy or Sell at the moment.
I turn to this site Aussie Stock Forums for a good balanced view of different stocks and investing strategies. I also use many other sites that I will not mention here.
I hope this encourages you have a go within your means.
Good Luck


----------



## Julia (4 November 2011)

*Re: Please help a beginner out! *



ilyuck said:


> but i have one question how can i invest in property if im 14 wont it all cost a couple hundred grand to a couple million dollars
> Jake



Better start saving then.  



Idiode said:


> Hello ilyuck,
> 
> You sound so much like my youngest son it's scary.
> At age 12 he worked as a Trolley Boy at KMart and like yourself was keen to "get into the stockmarket" with his free cash.
> Having been a stockmarket investor myself since age 20 I appreciated the benefits and dangers of this form of investment.......



And so as a sensible, financially literate parent you instill the same attitude into your son, as he will do with his children.
If only such good sense were more common.


----------



## snsdmonkey (4 November 2011)

*Re: Please help a beginner out! *



ilyuck said:


> Thanks all these are somereally wonderfull tips and ideas i will follow ur suggestions so thabk you for your help but i have one question how can i invest in property if im 14 wont it all cost a couple hundred grand to a couple million dollars also do u have eny suggestions as a good book to get me staryed
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jake




Start saving and study hard. Scholarships in university go a long way to reward hard work and dedication.


----------



## Blakamo (8 June 2012)

*A New Beginner Arrives*

Hey all, my name is Alec. Or as you may call me, Blakamo.

I'm a definitely a newbie to the stock market, and i'll even add something to that. I'm an unripe 16 years of age.

I understand it's rather rare for a person of my age to be interested in this sort of thing, as most kids my age would rather work jobs at Mcdonalds and sorts.

However I'm just far too intrigued by the stock market to just leave it alone.


About a week ago, I had been browsing through the ASX and eventually found a gold company i wanted to invest in (this was my first time ever). I wanted to invest a modest 1000 dollars into the company, however I had to wire the money into my trading account before I could do so (which would take 1 day) . Unfortunately, the next morning i woke up, i was awakened by a huge positively vertical line on the chart, indicating that I had just missed out on a profit. It would have been a 220 dollar profit. Not bad for a 1k investment. 

Frustrated, I felt like I had to make up for it. However the more and more I researched, the more I found out just how uneducated I am about the system. (reading through a large array of threads on different stock market forums).


I know this may seem like a very dejavu-ish post, as many beginners post this sort of thing. But where should I start? Should I completely avoid investing real money into the stock market? Please do not tell me to 'drop it' and just study hard for school 'for now'. I can't help it. If i'm not going to invest real money, at least tell me a way to learn how to learn terminology and to get good at this trade. I want to become an expert at this. I know I dont know much, but we all started somewhere.



Excuse me for the long post, thank you.


----------



## supermatt (8 June 2012)

*Re: A New Beginner Arrives*

that vertical line couldve been a $220 loss also. It's easy to get caught up on winning only, given a couple of $220 losses would wipe out half your account. Then what if you're at school and you need to close out of the trade but cant and it keeps landsliding down further? This is more of a short term trading perspective. I guess if you're investing so to speak you wouldnt care as much. But sounds like you want to trade

is your interest mainly in stocks? have you thought about forex? The reason I ask is because stocks with $1000 is crazy. You could do forex and just do micro or mini lots and use $1000 with no worries to start with. 

Additionally forex could be good for you because you get free charts, data and low commisions plus you can trade when you get home from school. screw study  or most kids these days have iphones and you could trade on that. 

just a thought


----------



## CanOz (8 June 2012)

*Re: A New Beginner Arrives*

Whoa there SuperMatt....first of all being 16 years old i think Blakamo should make sure he consults with his parents before doing anything.

My advice would be to save up for the next couple of years and get your folks to open a demo account for you at a broker, FX is the easiest. That way you can learn and have a cheap platform to use.

Maybe if you stay interested you can get a copy of Amibroker for yourself, or NinjaTrader EOD and start to learn more about TA and systematic trading. 

Lots of learning that you can do on ASF, and i wish i was in your shoes!

Feel free to ask anything, check over the threads before starting a new one and enjoy the learnig process.

Resist the emotions, especially the feeling of missing out. The markets will always be here with the chance of gain or loss.

Take your time.

Welcome aboard!

CanOz


----------



## supermatt (8 June 2012)

*Re: A New Beginner Arrives*

I was having abit of light hearted fun. He said he didnt want the usual yea stick to studying stuff so I gave it to him. I started his age and I know what its like to have the typical lecture on forums about you dont know what you are doing. At 16 I sure wasnt asking my parents for permission to do alot of things and Alec sounds like a switched on lad, he is on a stock forum at 16 which should say alot 
But yeah if you have that sort of relationship with them by all means discuss it. But more so discuss the gambling mentality of the game and how to control yourself so you dont lose a stack of cash

I think the suggestion that canoz made about a forex demo account would be the best move you could do. Play demo for a while and go from there. I think you have to be 18 to open up a live account with most forex brokers (but dont quote me on that)


----------



## Blakamo (8 June 2012)

*Re: A New Beginner Arrives*



supermatt said:


> that vertical line couldve been a $220 loss also. It's easy to get caught up on winning only, given a couple of $220 losses would wipe out half your account. Then what if you're at school and you need to close out of the trade but cant and it keeps landsliding down further? t




EXACTLY what I was thinking. Most people would have thought at my age that - Oh!, i could have made 220 dollars overnight! Im a bloody genius! stocks is easy money!

But even though I could have made a lot of money, I still could very realistically imagine that line going DOWN instead of UP. Then what would I have done? Believing that I would be this successful with every company I choose, would be delusional (not to mention my almost non existent knowledge of shares).

I really had no idea what to do, so I thought i'd ask you guys what's best.


----------



## Blakamo (8 June 2012)

*Re: A New Beginner Arrives*



CanOz said:


> Whoa there SuperMatt....first of all being 16 years old i think Blakamo should make sure he consults with his parents before doing anything.
> 
> My advice would be to save up for the next couple of years and get your folks to open a demo account for you at a broker, FX is the easiest. That way you can learn and have a cheap platform to use.
> 
> ...




That's odd  I read somewhere that FX was the riskiest...


----------



## TMC93 (8 June 2012)

*Re: A New Beginner Arrives*

Try signing up with the next ASX sharemarket game. Its virtual money and only allows players to invest in the top 200 or so shares but it will give you an idea on handling a portfolio. If you're any good you may even win some actual cash prizes!

The younger you start investing the better edge you have over everyone else your age. Most people will laugh at you or look down on you once you tell them your age but if you have an interest in the stock market and enjoy trading, you already have an edge over everyone else that does it purely for the money. Its not about how much you earn, its more about how much you save and whether or not you can keep it or even better make it grow. 

Browse the forums as it's a wealth of information, in addition, draw your own conclusions from what you read on the internet


----------



## supermatt (8 June 2012)

*Re: A New Beginner Arrives*



Blakamo said:


> That's odd  I read somewhere that FX was the riskiest...




its less risky than stocks for a beginner ASX punter because you can control your risk better with low commissions plus order structures. You hear its risky because countless newbie types enter the market with absolutely no knowledge and put half their life savings in there and start placing standard lot size orders and blow their account in a week.

im not endorsing fx but its no riskier than any type of trading on any market.


----------



## burglar (8 June 2012)

*Re: A New Beginner Arrives*



Blakamo said:


> ... I had just missed out on a profit. It would have been a 220 dollar profit. Not bad for a 1k investment. ...




So you sell and make $220 profit. 
You pay the broker, the tax man, the phone co., the ISP and the newsagent.
I am assuming you are still in front!


What do you do with the rest of the day?


----------



## CanOz (9 June 2012)

*Re: A New Beginner Arrives*



Blakamo said:


> That's odd  I read somewhere that FX was the riskiest...




How do you define risk? Leverage? Size? Margin? 

Risk is the amount you are prepared to lose in order to realize a profit. 

On a paper trading account it's all the same and that's exactly where you should spend your time until you can double that account in thirty days.

That's just a start...

CanOz


----------



## burglar (9 June 2012)

*Re: A New Beginner Arrives*

It looks like we are are hard on young starters.
But the opposite is true.
We like to see you start, survive and eventually flourish!


----------



## Blakamo (10 June 2012)

*Re: A New Beginner Arrives*

Ok guys. Since I have read your posts sometime ago, I have started to research Forex!


So far I have learnt about Sentimental, Technical and Fundemental analysis  (which I have an urging feeling is extremely basic information). Although I'll have to admit, a lot of it was kind of common sense.

I've also been learning about the Fibonacci Theory and whatnot, not sure if that's something everybody knows but I think its common knowledge also. I have to say it's rather confusing.

I sort of also learnt about pips and pipettes... but that confused the hell outta me haha


that's all for now!


----------



## 0808088888 (28 July 2012)

*Newbie needs some serious help T_T*

Hello guys, I just turned 18 and want to start investing on stock market but......
I dono anything about it
I need to know where I can buy stock online and offline(I live in Melbourne)
What phases are used in stock market that I might need to know as a begginer
and what basic strategy may I try as starter

Please help me thanks!


----------



## tech/a (29 July 2012)

*Re: Newbie needs some serious help T_T*

You'll find everything in ARCHIVES spend the hrs looking.
Use the search function.


----------



## burglar (29 July 2012)

*Re: Newbie needs some serious help T_T*

You could start here:

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18775


----------



## gcampton (1 August 2012)

*Re: Newbie needs some serious help T_T*



0808088888 said:


> Hello guys, I just turned 18 and want to start investing on stock market but......
> I dono anything about it
> I need to know where I can buy stock online and offline(I live in Melbourne)
> What phases are used in stock market that I might need to know as a begginer
> ...




Firstly I'd say start with the ASX website they have good tutorials covering all learning styles (visual, audio, active) and cover every type of stock/bonds etc. questionares at the bottom of every learning patch. Then after you've spent a few hours readin that, then come back here and read up.


----------



## prawn_86 (1 August 2012)

*Re: Newbie needs some serious help T_T*

Thread closed. Use the search function and links provided in this thread.


----------



## moorey2332 (14 August 2012)

*Advice would be great*

I am very new to all this. Im 24 and a surveyor, working in mining construction and about to take 2 years off to travel before becoming an adult. 
I have decided that I'd like to have the money that I have earnt doing more for me than just sitting there in the bank. I currently have some money invested through a SMA (I have had it invested for just under 2 months and its grown by about 5.5% which is much better than I expected but I realise its not always going to be like that). 

I have no experience and very limited knowledge when it comes to companies and investing, these being the reason I went with an SMA over directly investing. I am trying to read everything I can online and in the papers to try to get some understanding. My plan is to be able to actively invest some day in the next few years. Does any have any info they could pass on for any of the following?

1. Best ways to learn about investing styles and approaches.
2. What computer programs/advice are worth paying for, for someone who is doing their investing on a reasonably small scale?
3. Anything else you would feel is important.

Thanks in advance.
moorey


----------



## burglar (14 August 2012)

*Re: Advice would be great*



moorey2332 said:


> .... 3. Anything else you would feel is important.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> moorey




Advice is not allowed, but we may express an opinion.
Here is a great thread to start with.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14370


----------



## moorey2332 (14 August 2012)

*Re: Advice would be great*

Thanks for that. By advice I was meaning information and places I can learn etc. Not actual stock advice.


----------



## Mike Williams (14 August 2012)

*Where do I begin?*

G'day guys. 

I've never owned any shares before but I'm interested in buying some. I don't know where to look for the best ones, who to trust ect. Where do you guys find good shares from?

Eventually I'm wanting to begin paper trading (before i go live) and write covered calls on stock and then ensure the underlying position with put options.

Thanks for any help guys!


----------



## burglar (15 August 2012)

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14370

A wonderful thread started by SirO


----------



## Spongle (16 August 2012)

*Beginnings*

Ok...

What is the general consensus is starting out in this game?

I figure:

*Invest whatever you currently have in Bonds 
*Save weekly and invest in a similar fashion
*Build to at least 50K
*Paper trade and study your **** off

Put very simplyanyway... opinions?


----------



## tech/a (16 August 2012)

*Re: Beginnings*



Spongle said:


> Ok...
> 
> What is the general consensus is starting out in this game?
> 
> ...




Learn all about risk and portfolio management.
Gear your self up to be able to test your ideas---its worth the effort.
In these markets trade shorter term but have some accumulation going on in
longer term stock with strict risk management in place.
Preserve capital.
Remember trends (which you need to profit) are in all timeframes/long/short.
Look at ways of short trading -- I prefer stock indexes.
Test these as well.
BE DECISIVE.


----------

