# What are your tips for acquiring wealth and riches?



## Solly (24 March 2009)

What are your tips and techniques in acquiring wealth and riches ?

Are there things you'd liike to share ?

Are there things you do everyday that help you on your way to success ?

Let's hear from as many as possible.....


----------



## Trevor_S (24 March 2009)

*Re: What are your tips in acquiring wealth and riches ?*



Solly said:


> What are your tips and techniques in acquiring wealth and riches ?




1. Don't lose money
2. See Rule 1


http://travismorien.com/invest_FAQ/content/view/26/25/


----------



## fodder-oz (24 March 2009)

1.Live within your means.
2. Have a good Budget i.e spend alot less then you earn
3. Save 50% of your income.
4. Invest savings each week/month pay period.
5. Don't spend money made, keep earning interest on interest.

6. Starting your own business can help you get there if you can get it up and running in the first few years and survive. 

7. Read the book Millionaire next door is a great starting point and rich dad poor dad is good for begineers.

 Alot of people with flash cars and houses are up to their eyeballs in debt. You would be surprised who the millionaires are out there who you would never pick.


----------



## bunyip (24 March 2009)

What sort of wealth and riches and success are you talking about, Solly? The financial kind, or the other kind?

I've just finished a 2 hour breakfast on my veranda. Healthy food, rolled oats and rice milk with chopped fruit, followed by grapes and peppermint tea. As much as I wanted, no shortage. Beautiful Autumn morning of about 23 degrees, bright sunshine and blue sky, a nice garden of almost 2 acres to look out on, magpies carolling as they walked around the garden helping themselves to breakfast. Lots of other birdsong to entertain me as well. No traffic noise, thanks to living on six acres in a rural area.
Now I've wandered into my lounge room, sat down in my recliner, and cranked up my laptop to download the latest Forex data to see if there's any trades for me. 
And logged into ASF to see whose been saying what.
On the weekend my wife and I will head for Brisbane to meet our kids at Colleges Crossing, which is a public recreation reserve in the form of a beautiful barbeque and picnic spot in a most attractive park-like setting on the banks of the Brisbane River, just west of Brisbane. We'll have a barbeque and then paddle up the river in our kayaks, and just generally enjoy each others company. We'll also enjoy the fact that we live in this great country where these sort of facilities are provided free of charge, and we have the lifestyle and climate and freedom to enjoy them. 

Irrespective of any financial considerations, I think I have a rich lifestyle by many standards, particularly compared to people who live in troubled regions of the world, and don't have access to the sort of lifestyle and freedom that can be enjoyed in Australia.


----------



## Ageo (24 March 2009)

A good rule of thumb is any excess you have you should save 80% and spend 20% (80/20 rule but if you can save more thats great) and of course this goes hand in hand with your income vs expenses.

Remember Income should only pay the expenses that are necessary (water/power etc...) if your living at home then even better. Any extra spending then falls into the 80/20 category which should then be spent wisely, of course the more extra income that you have left the more you will have to spend and save.

Once you find yourself with extra cash then you need to keep it earning (make sure its not being lazy) any simple investments that compound will show you a massive difference in 5yrs, of course knowing what to invest in at what times always helps so you need to continue learning (and ASF is a great place).

P.S if you have any debts then i would suggest that 80% of your savings to dump onto it (if not 80% then a majority).

The simple key is this

*less debt means less money out *more investment means more money in.

Of course you know your on the fast track when your passive income covers your expenses by 2times.

Enjoy


----------



## Tysonboss1 (24 March 2009)

Follow the one golden rule : *Spend less than you earn, and invest the excess in income producing assets*

following this rule will turn a poor person into a millionaire, breaking this rule will turn a millionaire into a poor person.

Remember, Money is like a game of basket ball, you have to play strong attack as well as defence if you want to win.

their is no point earning $100,000 a year if you spend $101,000 a year,

If you spend less than you earn you will clear debt and generate savings and wealth.

If you spend more than you earn you will burn your savings and wealth and generate debt.


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (24 March 2009)

Solly said:


> What are your tips and techniques in acquiring wealth and riches ?
> 
> Are there things you'd liike to share ?
> 
> ...




Develop the right mindset and attitude.

Spend a percentage of your income on education and learning. Buy books, cd's dvd's, do short courses, seek the right people in the industry not just spin offs. 

Be suspicious of people who say it is easy *without work*. There are many scams around.

Choose multiple sources of income, just relying on earned income alone is what socialists do. (actually they love handouts etc)

I have adopted the belief that I will not be in a state of retirement in the future but just in a state of relaxed management of life and business. (providing the socialists don't change things)

Know what your threats are to strategically position yourself. A current threat to all Australians is the socialist mindset of handout acceptance and a nation going into debt, for eg.

Saving money is not the way to riches, unless you have a very high income and interest rates are over 10% constantly.


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (24 March 2009)

*Re: What are your tips in acquiring wealth and riches ?*



Trevor_S said:


> 1. Don't lose money
> 2. See Rule 1
> 
> 
> http://travismorien.com/invest_FAQ/content/view/26/25/




Yes but you need an acceptance of risk to make money. Sometimes that risk is relised in the form of a loss.


----------



## CanOz (24 March 2009)

Solly said:


> What are your tips and techniques in acquiring wealth and riches ?




*Intend it.*


CanOz


----------



## JAKSPARA (24 March 2009)

nice one white_goodman lol:

what movie is that from??

remember seeing it a few years back and thought now theres an idea!


----------



## korrupt_1 (24 March 2009)

bunyip said:


> ...Beautiful Autumn morning of about 23 degrees, bright sunshine and blue sky, a nice garden of almost 2 acres to look out on, magpies carolling as they walked around the garden helping themselves to breakfast...
> 
> compared to people who live in troubled regions of the world, and don't have access to the sort of lifestyle and freedom that can be enjoyed in Australia....




You paint a good picture Bunyip. I think the point of being  'rich' and 'wealthy' is relative....

I think someone in Africa, Asia, etc would look to us and envy what we take for granted...


----------



## moXJO (24 March 2009)

JAKSPARA said:


> nice one white_goodman lol:
> 
> what movie is that from??
> 
> remember seeing it a few years back and thought now theres an idea!




The old Lock, Stock movie


----------



## stl_08 (24 March 2009)

Find some wet snow and the biggest hill u can find and start rolling


----------



## Old Mate (24 March 2009)

Lol White. I love that movie...one of my top 5


----------



## metric (24 March 2009)

vote liberal...


----------



## bunyip (24 March 2009)

It would be presumptuous of me to tell you all how to acquire financial wealth. So I won't. What I'll do instead is tell you about the advice I've given my kids for when they join the workforce.

* Open two bank accounts - one for investment, one for daily living expenses.

* Draw up a budget to keep track of your finances. 

* Put at least 20% of your income, preferably more, into your investment account each pay day. The remainder goes into your living account.

* Don't touch the investment account for any purpose other than investment.

* Borrow money to buy a house just as soon as you've saved the deposit and can borrow the rest.

* Live in the house yourself for at least a year so it doesn't attract capital gains tax if you sell it.

* Get other people to pay off the house for you, either by renting rooms to them or renting the whole house to them.

* Use the increasing equity in your house to raise more capital for another house as soon you can afford to do so. Repeat this process over and over again. Keep getting other people to pay off your houses for you.

* Give preference to growth areas in growth states like Queensland, where more than 2000 people from interstate are moving every week.

* Use big supermarket chains to guide you as to where the next growth area will be. When you see Coles or Woolies build a big new shopping centre in a new area, you can bet your bottom dollar that a boom is just around the corner for that area. I've seen it repeatedly. The big retail chains really do their homework when deciding where to build new shops.

* Use stockmarket slumps as buying opportunities to build a blue chip share portfolio. But don't buy while the market is plunging. Wait to see which companies get wiped out and which survive. The ones that survive will come out of the slump lean, mean and efficient and positioned for strong growth when the economy turns the corner. 

*Join the ATAA so you start mixing in trading circles and learn about technical analysis. When you can adequately fund a trading account, start trading currencies with just a very small portion of your capital until you achieve a decent level of proficiency. Currency trading has the sort of profit potential that can significantly boost the earning power of those who become proficient traders. In fact it can replace job income eventually.

* Spend modestly on inspirational books. A simple little book like 'The Richest Man In Babylon' will inspire you to stay on track and achieve your wealth creation goals.

* Seek the company of successful people....success tends to rub off.

* Write down your goals and read through them regularly. 

* Enjoy life along the way. Make provision in your budget for recreation and social life to keep you in touch with friends and ensure that you stay interested in your life. 

My youngest daughter has just left school and is already putting this plan into action. She's working for a year before starting uni, and she already has two bank accounts and is putting 30% of her fortnightly pay into her investment account.
My eldest daughter will finish uni at the end of this year and is mad keen to start implementing her personal wealth creation plan.


----------



## waza1960 (24 March 2009)

Another idea along the lines of White Goodmans ....Start off internet business selling penis enlargers guaranteed to work 100% of the time,charge say $50/item and you actually send magnifying glass (well it does work so not illegal I would think) Also Surefire Fly Killer Guaranteed 100% again charge what you want and you send two small wooden blocks with the following instructions ...Place fly on block A and hit with Block B


----------



## beerwm (24 March 2009)

It's Snake Pliskin said:


> Develop the right mindset and attitude.
> 
> Spend a percentage of your income on education and learning. Buy books, cd's dvd's, do short courses, seek the right people in the industry not just spin offs.
> 
> ...




I think Snake has the right idea. education/ability

money * %/pa = Riches

i'd focus on increasing %/pa rather than savings,

anyone can stash cash in the bank - thats more financial security than riches.


----------



## gfresh (24 March 2009)

Bunyip's tips seem like good ones.

I think having a car that is fully owned from day one, and learning how to do your own mechanical repairs can save you in the order of literally thousands of dollars a year. For most people their car is their second largest asset, and unfortunately they are depreciating assets, wasting too much money on them is one of the best ways to throw money away.

Also having additional money generating ventures other than your "day job" can help you get ahead. I have two extra ones which can be used now and then when I wish to work harder to earn extra money. Always be on the lookout for further ones, they can often come along.


----------



## Smurf1976 (24 March 2009)

A simple rule, do not buy anything that is poor value.

That applies to everything from mobile phones to how you heat the house. Some people pay $3000 a year to make pointless phone calls and download jokes on the internet. Meanwhile, others get perfectly adequate phone and internet service, which is just as good as what the big spenders had 12 months ago anyway, for a quarter of that price. They're the ones who end up rich...


----------



## stl_08 (24 March 2009)

Listen to peoples ideas but in the end of the day do what you think is the right  idea,I would much rather fail due to my own decisions then other peoples. Also be happy with modest returns and low risk. 
And the last 1 enjoy being a stinge!!


----------



## Spanning Tree (24 March 2009)

I agree with everyone here when they say that it's important to sacrifice and not spend much so you can save as much as possible. Most people talk about Ferraris, Rolexes, and so forth, but I think the biggest money wasters are new cars, children, and houses. It's cheaper to buy a second-hand car, cheaper to be childfree, and cheaper to either live in your parents house or in a $5000 second-hand commercial van parked in a parking lot you can purchase for about $30,000.

When it comes to investing, I think it's important to constantly be studying. Never ever stick with one rule, e.g. invest in gold or investing in BHP, STW, etc. No investment is always good because, if it were, everyone would invest in it, there would be a bubble, and it would be a bad investment. You constantly have to be researching, reading public sentiment, studying economics, etc.


----------



## stl_08 (24 March 2009)

Spanning Tree said:


> I agree with everyone here when they say that it's important to sacrifice and not spend much so you can save as much as possible. Most people talk about Ferraris, Rolexes, and so forth, but I think the biggest money wasters are new cars, children, and houses. It's cheaper to buy a second-hand car, cheaper to be childfree, and cheaper to either live in your parents house or in a $5000 second-hand commercial van parked in a parking lot you can purchase for about $30,000.
> 
> When it comes to investing, I think it's important to constantly be studying. Never ever stick with one rule, e.g. invest in gold or investing in BHP, STW, etc. No investment is always good because, if it were, everyone would invest in it, there would be a bubble, and it would be a bad investment. You constantly have to be researching, reading public sentiment, studying economics, etc.





No children and live in a van? U gotta spend money on somethings man. The by of having wealth is to make the lives of people you love more enjoyable


----------



## prawn_86 (24 March 2009)

Yeh i would rather live in an apartment than a van, no matter how much it 'saved' me...


----------



## Julia (24 March 2009)

bunyip said:


> What sort of wealth and riches and success are you talking about, Solly? The financial kind, or the other kind?..............



Very evocative post, Bunyip.  And I doubt anyone would disagree.  But to be able to enjoy what you've described the underlying wherewithal has to be acquired, as you well know.

I think it's much easier to be appreciative of nature in the knowledge one's financial needs are taken care of.


----------



## bunyip (25 March 2009)

Julia said:


> Very evocative post, Bunyip.  And I doubt anyone would disagree.  But to be able to enjoy what you've described the underlying wherewithal has to be acquired, as you well know.
> 
> I think it's much easier to be appreciative of nature in the knowledge one's financial needs are taken care of.




True enough, Julia - your financial needs must be taken care of if you're to enjoy what I describe.
Even so, I think most people would be surprised at how little such a lifestyle really costs. Anyone who owns their own home and has a modest income - even someone on the aged pension - can sit on their veranda and enjoy nature. Even people who don't own their own home can do the same.
The other activities I describe - barbeques, picnics, kayaking etc, are also available to us all. Just about every town and region in the country is abundantly supplied with public recreation facilities for our enjoyment, all free of charge.
I'm fortunate to live on acreage surrounded by nature. But even that doesn't cost as much as most people would think. In fact if you're prepared to live out of town - I'm 15 minutes from a major regional city - you can often buy acreage properties for a similar or smaller price than your average suburban house block. 
Not only that, but acreage blocks allow you more flexibility with regard to housing. 
Most housing blocks in cities come with a caveat that forces you to build a new brick home. Acreage blocks out of town are frequently not subject to such stringent conditions.
I bought my house for eight thousand dollars. I moved it from Brisbane to my acreage block, painted it, polished the floors, set it up with rainwater and bore water, planted sixty odd trees in a two acre garden. All up the project came in at just a touch over sixty grand, plus land cost.
It's a beautiful big 1960's era house of the size and style they just don't build any more....five big bedrooms, high ceilings with ornate cornices, open plan spacious living.
All up between house and land costs, I got out of it much cheaper than if I'd have chosen to live in town. And I have a much more pleasant environment to live in. Country living may not be for everyone, but it suits me down to the ground and it doesn't cost the earth.


----------



## Fleeta (25 March 2009)

bunyip said:


> My youngest daughter has just left school and is already putting this plan into action. She's working for a year before starting uni, and she already has two bank accounts and is putting 30% of her fortnightly pay into her investment account.
> My eldest daughter will finish uni at the end of this year and is mad keen to start implementing her personal wealth creation plan.




Are your daughters single by any chance bunyip?
Wouldn't you rather them find a rich man, so they could stop and give you grandchildren??


----------



## doogie_goes_off (25 March 2009)

Never give up an idea without getting paid for it. If you are paid for ideas, keep any old ones you had in a bunch of notes or a file separate to your work, there may be a business in it later in life when new opportunities arise or you get more experience.


----------



## awg (25 March 2009)

Fleeta said:


> Are your daughters single by any chance bunyip?





my personal favorite...marry a rich woman..either be born into a wealthy family!

I was taught the principle of compound interest as a child, and the concept that for it to work, you must always save a % of your income. (at least 10%)

invest in quality assets in a low tax environment.

live a long time.

take all reasonable measures to minimise risk of total wipeout.

when i went thru a stage of earning quite a high income, I made a point of investing 50% of my disposable income in equities, the other 50% went on  toys, holidays and lifestyle.

I have some great memories, but that particular equity investment 50% is now 300K.

learn as much as you can about finance/economics/investment...if you do that you can try to time the market with respect to entry/exit/leverage etc.

all this talk about spending our way to equilibrium has left me a bit unsettled.

I always try to save a %, so that my capital base always grows, however because my capital base has shrunk over the last 12 months, I have had to take a pay cut, and am unable to save much at all this year.

I was always taught the only acceptable debt is for income or asset improving purposes, although I am more flexible, I dont know whether the country/world is better off with people who spend up, or like me who save 10% of their income and are largely self-reliant


----------



## bunyip (25 March 2009)

Fleeta said:


> Are your daughters single by any chance bunyip?
> Wouldn't you rather them find a rich man, so they could stop and give you grandchildren??




LOL

Yep, all four of them are single and good lookers, and they're all smart like their mother.

Marry a rich man?....sounds pretty good to me, as long as he looks after his father in law! But I'd like them to be rich themselves - and I don't doubt they will be - just in case the rich husband turns out to be a dud!

Lots of grandchildren?....I like the sound of that too, but hopefully they'll get married and put themselves on the road to riches first.


----------



## Spanning Tree (25 March 2009)

doogie_goes_off said:


> Never give up an idea without getting paid for it.



Are you getting paid for that idea? Any new motivational books coming out soon?


----------



## Spanning Tree (25 March 2009)

stl_08 said:


> No children and live in a van? U gotta spend money on somethings man. The by of having wealth is to make the lives of people you love more enjoyable



I'd rather drive a Ferrari than a Toyota but sometimes sacrifice is necessary. Someone suggested walking to me but that actually costs more because of time costs.

What I mean is that you should not have a child early in your life because that is when you should be saving up to exploit compound interest. You should have children later in life.


----------



## nulla nulla (25 March 2009)

1. Spend other peoples money not your own;
2. Charge a commission for setting the deals up;
3. Charge an ongoing management fee per annum that is not linked to results;
4. Franchise your business model; and if all else fails
5. Turn to prostitution, it is the oldest and most enduring business in the history of mankind.


----------



## So_Cynical (25 March 2009)

Most rich people ive met, got rich my being very conservative and frugal, the general rules seem to be.


Don't spend money (no travel, no fine foods/drinks, no entertainment etc)
Stay in the same job
Have low expectations
have a disciplined saving plan
Get Married to suitable person...stay married
Don't take any risks


----------



## Wysiwyg (25 March 2009)

So_Cynical said:


> Most rich people ive met, got rich my being very conservative and frugal, the general rules seem to be.
> 
> 
> Don't spend money (no travel, no fine foods/drinks, no entertainment etc)
> ...




I think that is really important because two people working achieves excellent results when one income is saved and invested.My high school mates that are still married all have comfortable lifestyles and their wives contributed more income in some cases.


----------



## bunyip (26 March 2009)

So_Cynical said:


> Most rich people ive met, got rich my being very conservative and frugal, the general rules seem to be.
> 
> 
> Don't spend money (no travel, no fine foods/drinks, no entertainment etc)
> ...




You wouldn't have a hope in hell of becoming wealthy with a plan like that! 

_*Don't spend money?*_
Nonsense....people who set goals for creating personal wealth realise that they need some enjoyment in their lives, otherwise they'll never stay on track towards achieving their goals. Of course they spend money and enjoy life, including spending on social life and recreation - they just don't go overboard about it. They're frugal, sure, but they still spend money. But they plan their spending, whereas many people have no plan at all - they simply spend their money as fast as they get it, then wonder why they never seem to get anywhere.

_*Low expectations?*_
Rubbish...you do your homework, you buy a house in a growth area, you have big expectations about the capital growth of real estate in that area. Similarly with any other investment - people would never invest money if they didn't have a reasonable expectation of the investment paying off handsomely.

_*Don't take any risks?*_
That's rubbish too. You make money by investing your money and other peoples money. All investment carries some risk. People with their heads screwed on assess both the risks and potential rewards of investments, and go ahead if the odds are stacked heavily in their favour.

_*Stay in the same job?*_
I doubt if there are many rich people who have been in the same job since they first joined the workforce.
People who plan on creating personal wealth are usually go-getters who look for opportunities to advance themselves. Getting a better job is one way of doing that.


----------



## Glen48 (26 March 2009)

So what is every one following FX. PM's, OZ bank's, OZ Mining, OS, ???


----------



## stl_08 (26 March 2009)

Spanning Tree said:


> I'd rather drive a Ferrari than a Toyota but sometimes sacrifice is necessary. Someone suggested walking to me but that actually costs more because of time costs.
> 
> What I mean is that you should not have a child early in your life because that is when you should be saving up to exploit compound interest. You should have children later in life.




Maybe I am only saying this due to my youth and ignorance, but you should go without now in your younger years (that's why I don't have a car at 17) and then u will have enough money to support kids at a younger age, not at a age when it is convenient for you, well that is my plan, I hope I am not offending anybody, and I am aware that at 17 in I'm my dream World and will get a rude shock when I do get into the real world


----------



## beerwm (26 March 2009)

So_Cynical said:


> Most rich people ive met, got rich my being very conservative and frugal, the general rules seem to be.
> 
> 
> Don't spend money (no travel, no fine foods/drinks, no entertainment etc)
> ...




jeeze.. way to suck the fun out of being wealthy,

 x 2


----------



## jersey10 (26 March 2009)

get into as much debt as possible and ensure that the money you generate from that debt pays for the cost of the debt and more!


----------



## nunthewiser (26 March 2009)

donate to my convent . im sure karma will fix you up in goodness for years to come

amen 

a nun


----------



## bunyip (26 March 2009)

Solly said:


> What are your tips and techniques in acquiring wealth and riches ?
> 
> Are there things you'd liike to share ?
> 
> ...





Solly

You've gone quiet since starting this thread.  
You must have some profound wisdom to share with us on the topic of acquiring wealth and riches - let's hear your ideas.


----------



## Wysiwyg (26 March 2009)

Gleaning information.


----------



## So_Cynical (26 March 2009)

bunyip said:


> You wouldn't have a hope in hell of becoming wealthy with a plan like that!




Not my plan Bunyip...was stating the fact that many of the rich people ive met are rich because they


Don't spend money (no travel, no fine foods/drinks, no entertainment etc)
Stay in the same job
Have low expectations
have a disciplined saving plan
Get Married to suitable person...stay married
Don't take any risks

Call it Nonsense and rubbish....whatever - its absolute fact.

How many people in Sydney are millionaires simply because they brought a house 30 
years ago, stayed in the one job and didn't get divorced...there's thousands of em.



beerwm said:


> jeeze.. way to suck the fun out of being wealthy,
> 
> x 2




Yes all these people were wealthy and sad pathetic people...one guy owned 6 
houses in a Sydney beach suburb and for something to do, mowed the lawns and 
did the gardening at all his rented property's.....pathetic.


----------



## Solly (26 March 2009)

bunyip said:


> Solly
> 
> You've gone quiet since starting this thread.
> You must have some profound wisdom to share with us on the topic of acquiring wealth and riches - let's hear your ideas.




Ok bunyip fair enough...here's a copy & paste from a post I did in the Storm thread regarding wealth etc... I'll add a few more soon..



Here are a few of my beliefs, It may not be what you expect. These views are not unique to me, it's probably just restating obvioius things.
I'll try and revist later as I'm heading out now and I really don't like typing from my Crackberry. 

First of all you must define what you want. 
Is it a new house, a certain amount of money, a better life by doing something or taking some type of action etc, developing a new product.

This is the most important step. You cannot reach a destination if you don't know where you are travelling to. Don't say things like a I want to have heaps of money. Be specific to the point and head for it.

Determine what you mean by wealth/riches. 
Money does not equal riches. 
Living in the biggest tin shed on the hill with views to the island doesn't always mean wealth. This is equally important. 

Think back to some of the happiest times in your life, see that is a definition of riches. I bet you didn't think back to a time you checked you statement of position or bank balance.

Set a time frame, set milestones, pick a realistic end date to arrive. 

How will you do it, Plan your strategy and implement it.
Be willing to fine tune your course.

Surround yourself with people or have access to people who are much smarter than you.

Listen more than you talk, never be afraid to ask questions.

Remember it's all about the journey, enjoy it.

During the take-off roll, be prepared to abort before V1, when you Rotate you are committed to that course. If things go bad after that brace and prepare for impact. Always be have a seat near the exit, always have an exit strategy.

Be prepared to really make huge mistakes, take a breather pick up the pieces and start again

It's a boring & tiring life travelling around strapped in row 1A.

Avoid people that impede your progress, 

Be firm but fair.

Stick with your decisions, if you are wrong, admit it, build a bridge and get over it. Move to the next task.

Always live with in your means. 
Never buy any article, car, house, clothes, just to impress others.

You don't necesarily need to own something to have access to enjoy or use it. Many things are free or can be accessed in a "pay per use" manner.
It's still "yours" for that time. 

Always "pay" yourself first, before paying others.

Never watch Today Tonight or A Current Affair nor any other mind numbing TV.

Google the name: Hyman Minsky. Read and consider his theories. 

Never, Never, chase something just for dollars. 

I'll elaborate more later....

But it's really all about, pre-planning, implementation, handling variation and steering things to a successful completion. No matter what the task is. 

Managing your available time is critical. Time management is simple but has huge payoffs. I call it Time Management Leverage.

Having a JOB ( Just over Broke ) is a good thing, you don't need to own a business or corporation to be rich. 

Never be greedy, we live in one of the richest, wealthiest places in the world, cherrish this land.


----------



## bunyip (26 March 2009)

So_Cynical said:


> _Yes all these people were wealthy and sad pathetic people...one guy owned 6
> houses in a Sydney beach suburb and for something to do, mowed the lawns and
> did the gardening at all his rented property's.....pathetic._




Nobody builds up a property portfolio of 6 houses in a Sydney beach suburb without taking some risks.
There's always the risk of property investment going wrong - look at what's happened with US real estate for example - although that's unlikely if you do your homework and invest in the right places. Nevertheless the risk is always there.

Even buying just one house carries some risk, albeit a small risk.


----------



## beerwm (26 March 2009)

So_Cynical said:


> Not my plan Bunyip...was stating the fact that many of the rich people ive met are rich because they
> 
> 
> Don't spend money (no travel, no fine foods/drinks, no entertainment etc)
> ...




Has anyone told you that you're So_Cynical? :


----------



## So_Cynical (26 March 2009)

bunyip said:


> Nobody builds up a property portfolio of 6 houses in a Sydney beach suburb without taking some risks.
> There's always the risk of property investment going wrong - look at what's happened with US real estate for example - although that's unlikely if you do your homework and invest in the right places. Nevertheless the risk is always there.
> 
> Even buying just one house carries some risk, albeit a small risk.




Com on Bunyip...hindsight tells us that eastern suburbs Sydney beach side real estate 
was where the saying "safe as houses" came from, this guys didn't have a portfolio..he 
owned houses, got them one at a time and payed cash for the first 2, worked a simple 
factory job and lived super frugal...its not rocket science.

Its buy and hold.


----------



## Spanning Tree (26 March 2009)

> Most rich people ive met, got rich my being very conservative and frugal, the general rules seem to be.
> 
> * Don't spend money (no travel, no fine foods/drinks, no entertainment etc)
> * Stay in the same job
> ...




The last two seem contradictory. Marriage is very risky. You can reduce the risk by getting a prenup, but if you do you may as well just hire a prostitute.


----------



## Julia (26 March 2009)

stl_08 said:


> Maybe I am only saying this due to my youth and ignorance, but you should go without now in your younger years (that's why I don't have a car at 17) and then u will have enough money to support kids at a younger age, not at a age when it is convenient for you, well that is my plan, I hope I am not offending anybody, and I am aware that at 17 in I'm my dream World and will get a rude shock when I do get into the real world



Not at all an offensive idea.  Imo you're on the right track.


----------



## Nero64 (26 March 2009)

Date as many woman as you can and marry the richest one. 

It doesn't matter if she is overweight, boring or ugly. Just say that you love her each day and she will leave you alone; In bed that is.

Always be nice to the mother-in-law as well.  

Ooops! coming to bed honey.....I better get off this computer she is calling me now


----------



## Julia (26 March 2009)

Spanning Tree said:


> The last two seem contradictory. Marriage is very risky. You can reduce the risk by getting a prenup, but if you do you may as well just hire a prostitute.



The connection between a prenup and hiring a prostitute escapes me.


----------



## So_Cynical (26 March 2009)

Spanning Tree said:


> The last two seem contradictory. Marriage is very risky. You can reduce the risk by getting a prenup, but if you do you may as well just hire a prostitute.




I was always under the impression that prenups in Australia are worthless, Not legally enforceable...am i wrong?

I love google..Pre-Nuptial Agreements Australia http://www.pre-nuptialagreements.com.au/summary_of_law.htm

Child and Spousal Maintenance Provisions in Financial Agreements (Section 90E)

Provisions in the financial agreement dealing with the maintenance of a spouse, child or 
children to the agreement is void unless the provision specifies:

    * The name of the party (spouse, child etc) for whose maintenance provision is made
    * The monetary sum or value of property attributable to the maintenance of the party

*However, any agreement on child maintenance can be overrided by an assessment made 
by the Child Support Agency.*

Court Powers to Alter Spousal Maintenance (Section 90F)

*No maintenance provision in a financial agreement excludes or limits the power of a court 
to make a maintenance order* if the court is satisfied that when the agreement came into 
effect, the circumstances were such that, taking into account the terms and effect of 
the agreement, the party would have been unable to support himself or herself without 
an income tested pension, allowance or benefit.


----------



## bunyip (27 March 2009)

So_Cynical said:


> Com on Bunyip...hindsight tells us that eastern suburbs Sydney beach side real estate
> was where the saying "safe as houses" came from, this guys didn't have a portfolio..he
> owned houses, got them one at a time and payed cash for the first 2, worked a simple
> factory job and lived super frugal...its not rocket science.
> ...




Of course it's not rocket science - it's simply buy and hold real estate investment just like I do myself. 
You do your homework, you select areas that you believe have the potential for significant capital growth, you borrow money for the investment. It's probably the safest of all investments. 
But it still carries some risk, albeit a small risk. 
Your blokes are saying don't take any risks. Well they did - every investment carries risk, some more than others. Real estate is one of the safest investment because the risks are small and the potential rewards are great.

You don't have to convince me of the safety of investing in real estate in growth areas.....I do it myself. 
You seem to think I'm saying that real estate investment is risky. I'm not - I'm merely pointing out that it not possible to invest money without taking some risk.

This acquaintance of yours with six houses - is he one of those who told you the following?.....

1. (no travel, no fine foods/drinks, no entertainment etc)(no travel, no fine foods/drinks, no entertainment etc)

2. Have low expectations

3. Don't take any risks

On Point 1 - Do you seriously think he (or any of the other people you spoke about) never went anywhere for a holiday that involved travelling away from home? Do you really believe he never took his wife or family to a restaurant for a nice meal, or never had friends over for a barbeque and a few beers, or dinner with a bottle or two of good wine?
Do you really believe that he spent absolutely nothing on entertainment - not even a single dollar?
Do you believe he lived like a monk?

On Point 2 - Do you really think he would have made substantial real estate investments in a Sydney beach suburb if he had low expectations about the future growth prospects of the area?
My guess is that he did his homework and recognised that the area was primed for substantial growth. His expectation, quite reasonably, would have been that substantial growth would be accompanied by substantial capital gain.

On Point 3 - Do you really believe that your friend wasn't aware that every investment carries some risk. He sounds like a smart man to me - he would have been well aware of what can go wrong with real estate investment, but he would have assessed that risk as being miniscule in comparison to the potential rewards. So he decided the very small risk was worth taking, and he went ahead and took it. 

The rich people you spoke to were talking in generalities, but you've taken them literally. 
I believe they were trying to convey to you the importance of being frugal in spending habits, in particular keeping a tight rein on money-wasting expenses like booze, restaurants, parties, entertainment, overseas travel etc. 
I believe they were stressing the importance of having realistic expectations about investment performance. It wouldn't be their style to invest in risky speculative stocks in the hope of a 100% return in a few weeks. They preferred more conservative investments like real estate.
They were clearly wise and frugal in their spending habits, but they sure as hell didn't live like monks.
They leaned towards low risk investments after assessing the risk vs the rewards.
They sound like pretty smart people to me. Just don't take them literally when they tell you don't do this and don't do that. None of them are suggesting you should never buy a bottle of beer or wine or a restaurant meal, or travel somewhere for a holiday. They're simply telling you that you need to keep a tight rein on your expenses.
If you showed them Post 16 on this thread in which I outlined the advice I gave to my kids, I reckon they'd be pretty much in agreement with me.


One more point....anyone with six houses in a Sydney beachside suburb does indeed have a property portfolio.


----------



## So_Cynical (27 March 2009)

bunyip said:


> This acquaintance of yours with six houses - is he one of those who told you the following?.....
> 
> 1. (no travel, no fine foods/drinks, no entertainment etc)(no travel, no fine foods/drinks, no entertainment etc)
> 
> ...




The 6 houses guy i met once while installing Foxtel satellite for one of his tenants...he 
happened to be there mowing the lawn  i said to the customer, who's that old guy 
mowing the law...hes says hes the landlord/ owner.

Confused i say...why is the owner who is clearly over 65 years of age moving his tenants 
lawn, the reply was that he likes to keep busy as he is retired and lives off the rents from 
his 6 houses (Maroubra) he has nothing to do so likes to mow the lawns...and his tenants 
don't mind getting there lawns mowed for nothing.

So installing a dish takes a while...he finishes the mowing and we strike up a convo...and 
i get stuck into him (light heatedly) as to why he likes to mow lawns at his age, turns out 
hes a simple fellow with simple needs and simple tastes, he gives me the spin about saving
money and living simply. 

He was just one of many people ive met over the years that has gotten comfortably 
wealth by doing very little, mostly simple folk with simple tastes and needs, that made 
simple investment choices.

To be fair back in the 60 etc there was pretty limited investment choices for the masses 
and alot less to spend money on....things have changed.

When i said he didn't have a portfolio of investments, i meant that i doubt he would know 
what a portfolio was or even have the vaguest concept of investing to a plan..and he was 
just one of many ive met that would fall into the category of "accidental millionaire" as in he 
never set out to be a millionaire just went about living his life and one day woke up a millionaire.


----------



## Spanning Tree (27 March 2009)

Trying to mimic accidental millionaires I don't think is the best idea. I think most real estate millionaires are accidental millionaires because most people buy a house to live in and they are lucky to have purchased before the global real estate boom.



> The connection between a prenup and hiring a prostitute escapes me.




I wouldn't get a prenup because it shows your spouse that you don't trust her or him, so it really kills off all the romance and reduces marriage to prostitution.


----------



## nunthewiser (27 March 2009)

LOL


----------



## trillionaire#1 (27 March 2009)

buying vacant land on the outskirts of town worked for us
just spend an eon badgering council until they rezone it residential.


----------



## michael_t_f (28 March 2009)

> Yes all these people were wealthy and sad pathetic people...one guy owned 6
> houses in a Sydney beach suburb and for something to do, mowed the lawns and
> did the gardening at all his rented property's.....pathetic.




I reckon this bloke is probably just a control freak and just does this to keep an eye on his propeties.


----------



## kincella (28 March 2009)

I am glad the story was told about the guy actually enjoyed mowing the lawns...the tenants get the work done for free....usually tenants do not do gardening...and in fact can kill a garden that cost thousands of dollars and years to build...gardens can add 20-50k value on a standard property...

I pay for the gardeners on my props...after losing a magnificent japanese maple...irreplaceable as an aged tree

I know a friend...looking forward to his early part time retirement...guess what he is looking forward to ....gardening...includes mowing the lawn...
he is in a high stress work environment...so something as simple as mowing the lawn is stress free...and the exercise is healthy....
they too have 6 properties...but only 5 gardens...he bought a set of 6 units for about 60,000 back in the 80's...they are still cheapies worth about a million bucks today...returns about 70,000 pa or  7% todays market...
his case...it was not accidental...it was planned for his retirement...he looked forward 30 years....
lucky...well not really...his superfund is down about 70% from when he first considered retirement over a year ago....but thank god for those IP's

oh and his pushy wife..is one of those women who just loves buying properties...she handles all matters...uses no agents to rent...scrutinizes the tenants herself..collects the rents...its like a part time job to her...she bought 5 props from about 2000-2003...upgraded the PPOR to a bigger place...no intention of selling any of the props etc....enjoying the higher rents..


----------



## kincella (28 March 2009)

best tip for acquiring wealth.....do not have kids...kids are very expensive, nor have expensive hobbies....you can do all those things later in life after you have made your money...then you can afford it...kids and hobbies

my little tip for those just starting in the workforce...put away about $500 pm for savings...not to be used for anything other than you future wealth...
now if you find you cannot save...always a temptation...then buy a little unit to rent out...work it out that after rental income it will cost you no more than $500 pm...or whatever...I call this one the forced saving plan...you make a committment...to hold it for 20 years or more....make a promise to yourself...
then later down the track...decide to start your own business and need a loan...the bank will lend to you...they use the resi as security....
or you can use the prop as security for any other venture...

friend recently sold his place...he bought a little unit to live in..back in the 
80's..cost 65,000
it was in a 'not so' popular suburb..but was what he felt he could afford...
now married he decided to use the profit to reduce the loan on his big smart house...thought it would sell for 220k's...went to auction and got 330k's...jun 07...
so now he has a tiny loan, against the lovely big dream home.....


----------



## kincella (28 March 2009)

*** The best way to become a millionaire is to borrow a million dollars and have your renters pay it off.
Jack Miller

I forgot this one...so after NOT having any kids...wow and the banks take the number of kids into consideration when you go for that loan...so less kids means more for you and using :sheep:OPM


----------



## Gordon Gekko (28 March 2009)

Get a job at an Island resort where live on accommodation is provided for free. Have a beautiful wife so it does not get lonely. Earn 60k per year each with absolutely no bills. Walk to work in less than two minutes.
Invest all money into index funds and hope for a % return of 8%. Go fishing,diving etc on your days off and do it for 10 years.
This is my 2nd job where this has all been possible the last one was in the Caribbean and we on the 5th year of this plan. 

Its long hours and your married to the place but I don't miss the big smoke at all. Im 34 and hope to only to what interests me after 45.

Invest for the long term, set realistic goals and don't speculate.

Best of Luck

G


----------



## Wysiwyg (28 March 2009)

Gordon Gekko said:


> Get a job at an Island resort where live on accommodation is provided for free. Have a beautiful wife so it does not get lonely. Earn 60k per year each with absolutely no bills. Walk to work in less than two minutes.
> Invest all money into index funds and hope for a % return of 8%. Go fishing,diving etc on your days off and do it for 10 years.
> This is my 2nd job where this has all been possible the last one was in the Caribbean and we on the 5th year of this plan.
> 
> ...




Geck matey, do you manage a resort on the Great Barrier Reef?


----------



## Gordon Gekko (28 March 2009)

Wysiwyg said:


> Geck matey, do you manage a resort on the Great Barrier Reef?




Yes Wysiwyg

www.orpheus.com.au


I should add that my wife and i do actually have a bill every fortnight 200$ for wine. 

Oh and don't have kids. there like the fungus growing on the sides of trees slowly sucking the life out of there host. No disrespecting those who have kids, just a bad joke.

G


----------



## Wysiwyg (28 March 2009)

Gordon Gekko said:


> Yes Wysiwyg
> 
> www.orpheus.com.au




Unreal , I worked on Heron 4 years and Lady Elliot 1 year so know the diving and resort lifestyle.Also walked the trail on Hinchinbrook north to south. 
Orpheus is way up there on luxurious and I`m sure the staff are excellent hosts.


----------



## ROE (28 March 2009)

So_Cynical said:


> Com on Bunyip...hindsight tells us that eastern suburbs Sydney beach side real estate
> was where the saying "safe as houses" came from, this guys didn't have a portfolio..he
> owned houses, got them one at a time and payed cash for the first 2, worked a simple
> factory job and lived super frugal...its not rocket science.
> ...




I find it hard to believe a guy work in a factory can save enough money to buy a house with cash ... he can provided these 2 scenario happen

1. House doesn't appreciate over the period he save.
2. Inflation is 0% 

and the like hood of that is 0%


----------



## gouryella (28 March 2009)

Gordon Gekko said:


> Get a job at an Island resort where live on accommodation is provided for free. Have a beautiful wife so it does not get lonely. Earn 60k per year each with absolutely no bills. Walk to work in less than two minutes.
> Invest all money into index funds and hope for a % return of 8%. Go fishing,diving etc on your days off and do it for 10 years.
> This is my 2nd job where this has all been possible the last one was in the Caribbean and we on the 5th year of this plan.
> 
> ...




That sounds like the ideal job.

Are you hiring?


----------



## bunyip (31 March 2009)

ROE said:


> I find it hard to believe a guy work in a factory can save enough money to buy a house with cash ... he can provided these 2 scenario happen
> 
> 1. House doesn't appreciate over the period he save.
> 2. Inflation is 0%
> ...




I'm inclined to agree - it's somewhere between highly unlikely and damn near impossible. Not just one house either....he claims he paid cash for his first two houses.
He sounds like one of those blokes who never let the truth stand in the way of a good yarn!

I do, however, personally know a couple of people who started with nothing and have done some pretty impressive things with real estate. 
Husband and wife both worked in relatively low-paid jobs blue collar jobs.
Bought their first house in their early twenties, as it increased in value they borrowed against the increased equity to buy another one, put tenants in it to help meet the bank commitments, kept repeating the process over and over again. 
Ended up with six properties, and they're still only in their forties. They'd owe a fair bit of money but they handle it OK. Every time a real estate boom comes along, which is every 8 to 11 years on average, their equity and their net worth climb enormously.


----------



## So_Cynical (31 March 2009)

ROE said:


> I find it hard to believe a guy work in a factory can save enough money to buy a house with cash ... he can provided these 2 scenario happen.






bunyip said:


> I'm inclined to agree - it's somewhere between highly unlikely and damn near impossible. Not just one house either....he claims he paid cash for his first two houses.
> He sounds like one of those blokes who never let the truth stand in the way of a good yarn!




Seriously u guys need to get out more...ive met about a dozen people over the years 
that have achieved similar, simple people, simple jobs, simple life philosophy....without 
exception these were very boring people, with wealth they didn't really enjoy...all these 
people were over 55 as well.

And ya gota remember that these people started accumulating wealth back in the 50,s 
and 60's when there was alot less to spend money on and real estate was the only 
simple long term investment....also right at the start of the long housing boom.


----------



## bunyip (31 March 2009)

So_Cynical said:


> Seriously u guys need to get out more...ive met about a dozen people over the years
> that have achieved similar, simple people, simple jobs, simple life philosophy....without
> exception these were very boring people, with wealth they didn't really enjoy...all these
> people were over 55 as well.
> ...



I don't doubt the six houses part, only that he paid cash for the first two on a factory workers wage. Unless he was the manager of the factory and was on a hefty salary - even then it's still unlikely.
Anyway look, whether he did or not is irrelevant......the fact is that he's shown how an ordinary person can do very well with just a an ordinary job and a conservative real estate investment strategy. 
And it wasn't just back in the 50's and 60's that it could be done - it's still possible these days. As per my last post, I know people who've done it in the last 25 years. And others who started more recently and are well on their way to achieving it.
A relation of mine and her partner have just bought their first home at the age of 21, and are planning on buying many more.
Another example is a feller who went to school with one of my daughters. He got an OP1, which is the highest academic score achievable in QLD secondary school. In other words he's a very bright kid, but he dismayed his family and teachers and friends by announcing that he had no intention of going to uni, and was going to get a labouring job.
Well, that's just what he did.....a builders labourer at the age of 17, straight out of school. Two years later he bought his first house, now has two houses at the age of 21. He intends to keep buying more properties and build wealth at an early age from real estate.
According to my daughter he doesn't live like a monk either - still allows himself some spending on social life, just budgets and keeps a tight rein on expenses, and sticks like glue to his saving and investment plan.
This is not just a yarn I've pulled out of thin air.....this kid is for real.


----------



## bunyip (2 April 2009)

Further to the discussion on building wealth through long term buy and hold real estate investment.......

Recently I read an opinion from an economist  that appeared in one of the papers. I don't recall his name - I'd never heard of him. Then again, I've never heard of most economists.
Amway - his prediction is that over the next 20 years, Australian house values will quadruple, the average wage will be 180k for males and 170k for females, and Brisbane will have the fastest population growth of all major Australian cities.

This sort of prediction - assuming it comes true - bodes well for anyone who accumulates a substantial real estate portfolio over the next 20 years, or has already done so.


----------



## Ageo (2 April 2009)

kincella said:


> best tip for acquiring wealth.....do not have kids...kids are very expensive, nor have expensive hobbies....you can do all those things later in life after you have made your money...then you can afford it...kids and hobbies




Yep once you have made your money then have kids/enjoy life etc.. eh???

at what age thow? so when im 60 i can chase my 6yr old around? no thanks


----------



## kincella (2 April 2009)

my father was into his 3rd mariage at 52...and she was the love of his life...
there were 4 of us that arrived in the next 5 years... so he was 55 when I came along....
we had nannies to chase us around..did not see a whole lot of dad...but when we did it was magic....and he was around much more as we got older
had a terrific childhood....
but everyone has different choices....
my father ran a business that took him away a lot of the time in my younger years


----------



## Ageo (2 April 2009)

kincella said:


> my father was into his 3rd mariage at 52...and she was the love of his life...
> there were 4 of us that arrived in the next 5 years... so he was 55 when I came along....
> we had nannies to chase us around..did not see a whole lot of dad...but when we did it was magic....and he was around much more as we got older
> had a terrific childhood....
> ...




So your saying you would have liked to see your dad more when you were younger? then why are you following his footsteps?

Each to their own but wealth is more then about money, no point being filthy rich and missing out on so much in life (but like i said each to their own).

The road to financial success is a journey so enjoy the ride


----------



## bunyip (2 April 2009)

Ageo said:


> So your saying you would have liked to see your dad more when you were younger? then why are you following his footsteps?
> 
> Each to their own but wealth is more then about money, no point being filthy rich and missing out on so much in life (but like i said each to their own).
> 
> The road to financial success is a journey so enjoy the ride




Absolutely correct.....wealth is more than just accumulating money and assets that have financial value.

Anyone who makes the decision not to have kids so they can build financial wealth faster, has, in my view, made a very poor choice. 
Wealth and riches come in many forms, and one of the richest of all forms of wealth is in being parents to kids and having them around for regular visits and family outings after they leave home.
Anyone who would shun such a wonderful experience, all in the name of making money, has their priorities and their values well and truly screwed up, in my view at least. And I do speak from experience, being a Dad of four, and experiencing the joys of seeing our kids grow up, all the things we did together as a family, and still do even though three of the four have left home.
And I don't accept for one moment that you can't do well financially and raise a family at the same time.

Ageo hits the nail on the head when he/she says _"no point being filthy rich and missing out on so much in life."_


----------



## kincella (2 April 2009)

I am giving an honest assessment....if I had my time over again, I would replace the kids with a couple of animals....much cheaper to keep, enjoyment  etc still there...
I started my family when I was very young....the opposite to my father...now in hindsight...if I could choose...I would opt for the kids later in life....
its not all about the money....but later on you should have more of it...and then its easier to juggle the kids...the career should be set in stone...

the way I did it, married, had the kids early, bought the family home and in between all that going on....I studied for my career....
in hindsight it was being like superman everyday....
and less pay early in the workforce..
its just my circumstances

I could have done things differently.....
so next time... I would not get married, but I would study, and probably buy a house, then when about 40 I would consider having kids, or maybe in hindsight I would not have kids....let someone else do it


----------



## Knobby22 (2 April 2009)

Most people I know that have done really well have kids. The ones with really big families - 4 to 6 kids often do better.

I don't know why that is. Maybe it is the area I live in. (inner city suburb). 

I know a few guys without kids that just drink and party and live bachelor lives. They all seem to have little money.

I feel for you kincello. I think you started too early before you found your feet. 5 years can make a lot of difference.


----------



## kincella (2 April 2009)

you are right Knobby...5-10 years would have made a load of difference...
they are grown ups now....left the nest
have since replaced them with one little dog.....and its much more fun...rarely complains, always attentive...and loves to play....oh whoops almost forgot.....it is so much cheaper to keep than the kids ever were...

am thinking about finding another little one for a mate for it...
cheers


----------



## Mr J (2 April 2009)

My advice is be happy, do what you enjoy, and don't worry so much about money. Easier said than done of course, but for most people it really just requires a change in attitude and priorities.


----------



## bunyip (2 April 2009)

kincella said:


> you are right Knobby...5-10 years would have made a load of difference...
> they are grown ups now....left the nest
> have since replaced them with one little dog.....and its much more fun...rarely complains, always attentive...and loves to play....oh whoops almost forgot.....it is so much cheaper to keep than the kids ever were...
> 
> ...




Different people - different experiences of parenthood.

I'm pleased to be able to say that my four kids have given my wife and I far more fun and fulfilment, and continue to do so, than a little dog could have ever given us.
Yes, they're far more expensive than a dog, but well and truly worth it.


----------



## weird (2 April 2009)

Hi Bunyip

While nothing to add, like your posts regarding this subject.


----------



## bunyip (2 April 2009)

weird said:


> Hi Bunyip
> 
> While nothing to add, like your posts regarding this subject.




Thanks Dave - good of you to say so.
I'm all for creating personal wealth, and I'm all for parenthood and family life. Despite views to the contrary, combining the two is both possible and very rewarding.


----------



## Ageo (2 April 2009)

kincella said:


> I am giving an honest assessment....*if I had my time over again, I would replace the kids with a couple of animals.*...much cheaper to keep, enjoyment  etc still there...
> I started my family when I was very young....the opposite to my father...now in hindsight...if I could choose...I would opt for the kids later in life....
> its not all about the money....but later on you should have more of it...and then its easier to juggle the kids...the career should be set in stone...
> 
> ...




lol i hope you didnt mean that Kincella as i would feel sorry for your kids, i got married at 22 and had my daughter at 24 (im now 25) so im in the young category (as you would call it). Mate if 1 thing i have noticed is that kids are expensive but if i didnt have my daughter (who is worth more than any money could buy) i would have blown that extra cash somewhere else.

If you cant become financially wealthy over time with a family then what makes you think you can without 1?

Perhaps i should replace my daughter for a cat? 

Anywayz whatever your journey enjoy it as we only get 1 (and money unfortunately is only a tool that helps with that journey but not the purpose).


----------



## kingcarmleo (3 April 2009)

No offense to anyone but coming from an 18 yr old's perspective, it's all well and good to say " as long as your happy" , "enjoy life" but at the end of the day without a decent amount of financially security you will not be happy nor be taken seriously. A teacher of mine once told me on the average mortgage you pay over 25 years, you will of paid 1 million in interest - I don't know how accurate that is but it is probably the one of the most important things I remember from school. I think if you have to worry about paying off mortgages and debts you won't be as happy as someone that is financially secure and doesn't have to worry about debt. I am not going to sit around like other 18 yr olds and let myself be a middle level income earner with big debt for the rest of my life, I'm going to start now when times are tough although it's hard to gain confidence with the media's non stop perception that everything is over. It reminds me of times after September 11 the media destroyed everyone's confidence striking fear into the heart of people around the world. Sorry I got off track , I just get carried away sometimes lol.


----------



## Julia (3 April 2009)

kingcarmleo said:


> No offense to anyone but coming from an 18 yr old's perspective, it's all well and good to say " as long as your happy" , "enjoy life" but at the end of the day without a decent amount of financially security you will not be happy nor be taken seriously. A teacher of mine once told me on the average mortgage you pay over 25 years, you will of paid 1 million in interest - I don't know how accurate that is but it is probably the one of the most important things I remember from school. I think if you have to worry about paying off mortgages and debts you won't be as happy as someone that is financially secure and doesn't have to worry about debt. I am not going to sit around like other 18 yr olds and let myself be a middle level income earner with big debt for the rest of my life, I'm going to start now when times are tough although it's hard to gain confidence with the media's non stop perception that everything is over. It reminds me of times after September 11 the media destroyed everyone's confidence striking fear into the heart of people around the world. Sorry I got off track , I just get carried away sometimes lol.



No need for any apology.   Great comments.  All the best to you, not that you'll need luck .


----------



## tech/a (3 April 2009)

> A teacher of mine once told me on the average mortgage you pay over 25 years, you will of paid 1 million in interest - I don't know how accurate that is but it is probably the one of the most important things I remember from school.




This is the sort of *rubbish* that gets me riled with our teaching profession.
Its stuck in your mind and made home ownership look like you have to be hog tied to a mortgage for the rest of your life.

On average people upgrade every 7 yrs.
House prices "On Average" double every 10 yrs.
The "Average" home owner puts down 20% deposit.
Simple maths will tell you that growth on initial investment has far more positive implications than 1 million of interest.
Then compound that by a house or 2 and take in the tax benifits of owning more than 1.


Here is something I believe WORTH remembering---go tell your teacher.

*Find anyone with real wealth and you'll more often than not find a foundation to their wealth in PROPERTY.*


----------



## tech/a (3 April 2009)

There is ONE tip I would pass on to 95% of the population with regard to financial security (Wealth and riches whatever they are to YOU) and thats a



*Quantum Shift in Thinking.*




Think like 95% of the population and thats where you'll be.
Happily so for many.


----------



## kincella (3 April 2009)

Wonder did the teacher tell you how much rent you would pay as the alternative to a mortgage ??? it would be a similar amount....

here are some rough figures...say you rent for 20,000 pa x 50 years = 1,000,000 in rent...there's the million dollars
and covers one from age 30 to age 80


----------



## kincella (3 April 2009)

the figures used to be 90% of the worlds wealth is held by just 5% of the population...
so the balance of 95% of the population account for just 10% of the wealth

that figure may have changed to a greater number of wealthy people,,,before the GFC....
in a nutshell....stop acting like sheep, stop doing what everyone else is doing...
if you want to become wealthy...you need to do things differently to the average joe
we have some very talented people on this site...with very sound advice...listen and absorb what they have to say...


----------



## Ageo (3 April 2009)

tech/a said:


> There is ONE tip I would pass on to 95% of the population with regard to financial security (Wealth and riches whatever they are to YOU) and thats a
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It reminds me of a mentor wants told me something:

He flew with his family and the kids sat in economy whilst him and his wife sat in 1st class. Now to 95% of people thats cruel and abusive but to him it was a valuable lesson to his kids. His son said why do you guys get to sit in the good area why we are here in the back all cramped up etc... and the father went onto say if you think like the masses then you will always be in cattle class but if you think like the other 5% then you will be up the front enjoying life.

And everytime i fly and sit with the masses i think of that very thing. And i have come to realise that alot people in this world no matter how much they say they love to be wealthy etc.. will never become it because they havent learned these simple but vital lessons.

P.S kingcarmleo: i would ask your teacher if his filthy rich, if he responds "no" then i would reply: "better stick to teaching what you know then eh"


----------



## bunyip (3 April 2009)

kingcarmleo said:


> No offense to anyone but coming from an 18 yr old's perspective, it's all well and good to say " as long as your happy" , "enjoy life" but at the end of the day without a decent amount of financially security you will not be happy nor be taken seriously. A teacher of mine once told me on the average mortgage you pay over 25 years, you will of paid 1 million in interest - I don't know how accurate that is but it is probably the one of the most important things I remember from school. I think if you have to worry about paying off mortgages and debts you won't be as happy as someone that is financially secure and doesn't have to worry about debt. I am not going to sit around like other 18 yr olds and let myself be a middle level income earner with big debt for the rest of my life, I'm going to start now when times are tough although it's hard to gain confidence with the media's non stop perception that everything is over. It reminds me of times after September 11 the media destroyed everyone's confidence striking fear into the heart of people around the world. Sorry I got off track , I just get carried away sometimes lol.




Good for you - I really admire young people with your kind of attitude. 
And don't concern yourself too much with what the media says....not many of them own millions of dollars worth of real estate. 
This financial crisis will create the sort of investment opportunities that investors dream of. Make yourself an investor by saving like your life depends on it. But make sure you have some social life and fun as well, otherwise you'll get stale and disillusioned and never stick to your wealth creation plan. 
Aim at getting your first  house by using some of your money and some of the banks money. If you can keep living at home with your parents, great, that frees up your house to rent out to other people who will help you pay it off. And because it's a business investment, it will attract some very beneficial tax concessions. For example, rates, bank interest, agents letting fees, depreciation, gardening, maintenance etc, are all tax deductible if the house is a money-making investment. 
Do your research, make sure you buy in a growth area. If you do, your real estate will at least double in value every ten years. Use the increasing equity to raise a loan for another house. Get more renters to pay it off for you. Keep doing it over and over again.
Don't let the doom and gloomers influence your thinking - it's not the negative people who ever get anywhere in life.

Buy yourself a book called 'The Richest Man In Babylon'. It's not only inspirational, it's easy reading as well. I got all my kids to read it while they were still at school.


----------



## kincella (4 April 2009)

This article has to be one of the best I have read in a long time....its as if Marcus Padley read this thread, and provided an excellent answer....
Extract. 3 gems.......................

We cannot employ the unchallenged. Twenty-five-year-olds are not supposed to be sitting in their parents' homes eating takeaway pizza. The longer they stay on the financial umbilical cord, the weaker they get. Feed the ducks and they will never learn to feed themselves. For their own sake you have to release them to the wild. Kick them out. We cannot employ weaklings

 Debt is king. You'll never make big money without it. Do not be afraid of debt. Liabilities drive you to the most Herculean efforts.

Patience is not a virtue, it's a waste of bloody time. Time is the most valuable of commodities and you will not succeed without it. No one got rich working 9 to 5 and respecting weekends. You can't build a business 9 to 5. It takes total immersion. Every activity becomes a time-versus-money equation.

http://business.theage.com.au/busin...eres-a-brutal-crash-course-20090403-9rn7.html


----------



## Trembling Hand (4 April 2009)

kincella said:


> Debt is king. You'll never make big money without it.
> 
> Patience is not a virtue, it's a waste of bloody time.
> 
> http://business.theage.com.au/busin...eres-a-brutal-crash-course-20090403-9rn7.html




Ya bet me to it. Very good article. thou most who read it will never get past this point. It is exactly why there's bookshops filled with how to rubbish.



> The willingness of highly capable and educated people to work for a certain rather than variable sum is the most exploitable, available and cheap investment you will ever make.


----------



## kincella (4 April 2009)

There are quite a few gems in the article...........

Education is paramount. The more you learn, the more the lights come on and the more you realise how many other lights are off. You have to know, there is no substitute. Knowing opens doors. Knowing what you don't know is as important as knowing what you do.

and this piece............

There is education and there is qualification. Set out in pursuit of a qualification and you will deliver yourself to the corporate sector for exploitation. Set out for an education and you will develop beyond that. You already have everything you need. That piece of paper is of little use unless you want to impress someone else and build their assets instead of yours.


----------



## tech/a (4 April 2009)

> The willingness of highly capable and educated people to work for a certain rather than variable sum is the most exploitable, available and cheap investment you will ever make.




One of my favorite quotes.

Who is the more intelligent/
"Those with a degree 
Or Those who employ those with a degree"

Another.
"If you wish to become an expert surround yourself with those who are!"

Another
"Anyone can be a loser---look around there are 1000s of them."

And from the article a gem.
"Patience is not a virtue, it's a waste of bloody time"


----------



## tech/a (4 April 2009)

> There is more money made in a room in an hour than is made in a factory every day.




How true this rings in my ears!

Expanded a little consider this!

Clients negotiate on a daily basis. If I or my sales staff negotiate $200 higher or lower as an example or YOU negotiate $200 off a fridge in 5 mins of hard nosing thats 
$2,400/hr.

Its common practice when tendering large contracts (that you want) to tender below your estimate then screw the daylights out of your Suppliers and Subcontractors.

Yesterday after being awarded A retirement village project which needs 25 tonne of steel I spent all day negotiating price with 3 suppliers. Saving $200/tonne.
A good days work!


----------



## kincella (4 April 2009)

Tech A...more gems from you too..
the other thing that springs to mind....is there are only so many Chiefs...but millions of Indians..so its far more informative to get the 'nuts and bolts' infor direct from the chief...
stacks of indians out there who relate their understanding of what they think the chief means...and then those same indians train the others....no wonder they get don't  it....
PS...the chief and indian is another word for the 'the business owner versus the employees', for any  unaware of the term...

been involved with many small businesses....its the canny business owner that uses all intelligence and senses to hold the fort together..
he/she needs to be just so much more 'smarter than the average bear'


----------



## sjx (4 April 2009)

Contribute $1000 to your super per year and get the $1500 government bonus.. I'm not sure if many are aware of this scheme.. but if you started young (and a $1k contribution is nothing in the scheme of things..) you could have and _extra _$1 million+ super. That is pretty financially secure for your later life.

All the short term stuff.. Well it has all been said already. Find your passion. Explore your passion.. make it happen.


----------



## granev (4 April 2009)

Debt only works because of inflation , and the way they are printing money at the moment we are in for that big time in the near future.


----------



## Wysiwyg (4 April 2009)

kincella said:


> There are quite a few gems in the article...........
> 
> Education is paramount. The more you learn, the more the lights come on and the more you realise how many other lights are off. You have to know, there is no substitute. Knowing opens doors. Knowing what you don't know is as important as knowing what you do.



I love that fact.

and the follow through as per tech/a ... _application_.


----------



## MR. (4 April 2009)

Jeez this threads now on a roll!   
For a slightly different perspective but with the same goals. 

Gota lov it “Debt is King”  
“Do not be afraid of debt”  

Hey it’s great to be optimistic but....... 
One shouldn’t  have to point out that the world’s economies are in trouble because of these debts!

So could it mean 90-95% of people just failed and just 5-10% succeeded? ............ Does not mean all of the 95% never tried!  

Many have made some money incorporating debts into various business ventures. It does not mean that it is neither the only way nor the safest way to succeed.  It can still be done without heavy debts just takes a little longer.......perhaps?   Being heavy indebted can result in you ending up with nothing in a very short space of time.  And what about the emotional strains on one’s self and family. Business ventures with little to no debts still succeed and what’s better you live to fight another day if things turned for the worst. 

Control that greed. Slow but steady still wins the race, but perhaps not make it to the super rich list.  

Unfortunately with tax deductions etc. etc. etc. the governments view is "debt is good."


----------



## Trembling Hand (4 April 2009)

MR. said:


> Hey it’s great to be optimistic but.......
> One shouldn’t  have to point out that the world’s economies are in trouble because of these debts!






How far off the mark are you??

Lots.

If you use debt for non-productive means we get the mess we are in now.

A million miles away from using it as leverage in a profitable scalable biz.


----------



## kincella (4 April 2009)

MR...we are not advocating you load your self up to the hilt with debt....
at the moment I probably have 30-40% debt...I forget the exact figure

to begin with apart from a 20% deposit...I bought some debt to buy an IP, 8 years down the track the debt has diminished to less than a third of the value of the asset... (dont bother with the mv to drop by 200% or whatever figure the kids are using today)
I also spent money increasing the value of the asset,  doing improvements and renovations...
I repeated the same plan several times.....if I were to liquidate the assets now...I would walk away with a rather handsome profit and a large amount of cash.
Or I could have done nothing and just be holding the 20% deposit.....and that is what most people do.....they do nothing.... or they borrow for bad debt...credit cards, cars, tv, boats, etc

Oh and one last prop I bought....I did lots of things to increase its earning potential, together with a lot of time and effort on my part....it was similar to time spent on a part time job....but without any income at the time...after a couple of years came pay back time....it now generates sufficient income, that I only work part time now...

the OPM that I bought to fund the purchase represents less than 1/10th of the mv of the asset.
hence when we say debt is good....but its only good on an asset that does not lose value...bad debt is when you buy a car, tv or the like


----------



## MR. (4 April 2009)

Trembling Hand said:


> How far off the mark are you??
> 
> Lots.
> 
> ...




TH, I don't think I'm a million miles off the mark, but I understand what you are implying. 

The problem is the two are linked!
Take the car makers their expansions were based on demand like all business expansions, thus driven somewhat by that non-productive means.


----------



## nunthewiser (4 April 2009)

Town X has a mining boom .

mr X expands his mining equipment lease business  using a large debt borrowing based on his equity on his house and other assets to supply mining boom 

town X no longer has mining boom

mr X 10 new loaders sit in mr X,s yard 

mr X now has a problem

finance supplier steps in sells mr X, s new loaders at repo auction but still mr X owes more

finally mr X sells house and other equity bearing assets and says "yeah all that debt was great"


----------



## kincella (4 April 2009)

hmmmm, re the car makers...
truth was demand was not there,,,hence the strife now...they insisted on making the bigger gas guzzling cars....even after the market had turned against the gas guzzlers a couple of years ago...
they had not kept in touch with the market place...just doing the same thing they had always done.....
the private jets ??? borrowed to buy same....govt handouts for research...nope none done...borrowed to pay bonuses to the chiefs...yes

heard Russia is stockpiling the same big cars....but keeping the factories going and people employed...the cars never make it to a car yard....
whole towns are employed in that workforce....so to shut it down, the whole towns goes down with it.......how stupid is that....who is in charge of this show....probably going on in other countries too
debt was used for all the wrong reasons

the community had taken the greenhouse thing seriously, and wanted greener smaller cars....but the car makers never listened....
now Obama may stop them in their tracks...no more funding...tell them to get real


----------



## kincella (4 April 2009)

nunthewiser....where was Mr X's plan b, or plan c.....sounds like he over committed.... ?
one would have to do the sums to check that one would generate sufficient income to cover the cost over a set period.....and then review the plan,
since it was just a boom...
leave the boom time big committments to the bhps of this world..they have the finance and the backing...
most small business operators take it slow and steady...and keep it as a going concern


----------



## tech/a (4 April 2009)

nunthewiser said:


> Town X has a mining boom .
> 
> mr X expands his mining equipment lease business  using a large debt borrowing based on his equity on his house and other assets to supply mining boom
> 
> ...






In the above case which by the way isn't all that uncommon--IE All associated business which hooks on to the car industry.
Its a principal of business that you should not have all your eggs in the one basket.
You must be able to implement plan "B" and "C" and "D" to avoid catastrophic consequences.

Poor business planning.
Regardless of the size of the business.

T/H has hit it on the head.
Productive and un productive debt.

*kincella*
Leadership an interesting topic.
I also see we crossed replies.


----------



## nunthewiser (4 April 2009)

Mr Y is an aspiring property investor 

he borrows X amount of dollars for his first investment place using the equity in the family home and the fact that intrest rates are so low 

he rents said place out and figures why not buy another one , grab another loan , she,ll be right the tenants can pay it off with a lil addition from mr Y to cover the shortfall as it is 2009 and houses just dont seem to be cheap enough to provide a positive geared scenario 

mr Y gets a bad tenant

mr Y is now trying to cover the mortgage on family home , the mortgage on investment property and the shortfall on other investment property 

mr Y decides to sell a property as his income just cant cover his day to day expenses plus all his mortgages

mr Y takes a loss , it is 2009 after all and the property market isnt what it used to be

mr Y still has to pay family home mortgage , shortfall covering on investment property mortgage, oh and the balance of the other mortgage which whixch was not fully paid on the sale of other proprty

Mr Y, other tenant loses job and decides that the current laws mean that he can just hang out in mr Y, rental property for 3 months before he can be finally removed

mr Y is a lil short in his repayments for 3 months

bank has enough , and views mr Y as a dangerous investment choice 

bank sells the family home and remaining rental and covers all monies owed

mr Y thinks "yep all that debt was great"


----------



## nunthewiser (4 April 2009)

tech/a said:


> In the above case which by the way isn't all that uncommon--IE All associated business which hooks on to the car industry.
> Its a principal of business that you should not have all your eggs in the one basket.
> .





yep all over the midwest ... yards full of machinery ........ even the places like "coates hire " etc etc ....looking a lot different to a year back ....... lol most need bigger yards to store all this stuff sitting there unused now


----------



## kincella (4 April 2009)

Tech/a...I keep hearing stories like that....or change it 10 investment properties, or 10 horses for the horse riding school.....apparently majority of small businesses fail within 3 or 5 years...
unbridled (pardon the pun) enthusiasm.....like the stock traders...in the boom time they think it will last forever...
but we can see why those operators go out of business....its a failed plan to begin with...
and sometimes I wonder if those stories are so common....???
most of the people I have been involved with are more conservative...prepared to take each step along the way....not leap from the ground to the top in just one step


----------



## kincella (4 April 2009)

nunthewiser...

a. you are either hanging out in the wrong company...of losers...or wild boys..otherwise known as cowboys....
or b. you are making up stories
or c.   are there really so many silly people out there?

regarding investment properties...even the bank factors in a vacancy of 4 months each year....so should the investor....budget and allow for same..


----------



## granev (4 April 2009)

Mr Y didnt have a buffer , didnt have LL insurance and didnt do his DD well enough.
No one will ever go forward if you do nothing because of what may be the worst case scenario - make sure you are covered for it if it ever happens, but most likely it wont.


----------



## nunthewiser (4 April 2009)

just to keep it fair 


MrZ is itting in his lounge in the late1990,s suckin on a stubby and says"geez i reckon we have seen the top of the intrest rates and bottom of the house prices for now i might go borrow a bucket load of cash and buy 15 dirt cheap investment propertys  because the rent will cover the mortgage with 10 bucks left over on each one each week"

mr Z sells 2 to mr Y in 2009  

mr Z loves debt  because now he no longer has any


----------



## kincella (4 April 2009)

nun...now you are getting 'the hang of it'...or a handle on it...thats exactly what some people do....


----------



## nunthewiser (4 April 2009)

kincella said:


> nunthewiser...
> 
> a. you are either hanging out in the wrong company...of losers...or wild boys..otherwise known as cowboys....
> or b. you are making up stories
> ...


----------



## nunthewiser (4 April 2009)

kincella said:


> nun...now you are getting 'the hang of it'...or a handle on it...thats exactly what some people do....




lol "hang of it" .good grief


----------



## stl_08 (4 April 2009)

Never be a borrowed or a lender


----------



## Trembling Hand (4 April 2009)

stl_08 said:


> Never be a borrowed or a lender




LOL


----------



## MR. (4 April 2009)

stl_08 said:


> Never be a borrowed or a lender




Nothing wrong with that....... LOL

Wealth creation with any business venture has so much to do with timing. Many comments here simply reflect their experiences in the recent past and with debt.  No doubt feeling pleased with themselves and so deserved.... perhaps?  
What worked in the recent past is not a reflection of the future.  It has been easy to make money in the recent past but this will not continue......


----------



## Trembling Hand (4 April 2009)

MR. said:


> It has been easy to make money in the recent past but this will not continue......






Are you saying that sound business practises will fail in the future?


----------



## tech/a (4 April 2009)

> It has been easy to make money in the recent past but this will not continue......




True for those who dont attack their markets.
Those that sit on their hands waiting for impending doom.
Those who dont look at the 93% of the population going about their business.
Those who only knew how to EXIST and not run a business (There the ones that believe a couple of grand a week is running a business---dont do their bass statements/pay their employees under the table/work purely on cash/rip you off when the cash is more important than the final product and customer satisfaction---you know them).

This is how we are doing it and so far very successfully.

Last year our market share was 8%
Lets say our T/O is $5 mill.
We expect a 20% downturn.
We agressively build our market share to 10%
1 mill down turn
$1,250,000 increase in market share.

2%-----20%.

Easier than you may think
(1) Smaller competitors drop like flies as they have no buffer.
(2) Flight to quality by larger clients
(3) Larger commercial clients look for those Companies who comply to Oc health and Saftey a minefield and costly exercise which most dont bother with.


----------



## awg (4 April 2009)

kincella said:


> I am giving an honest assessment....if I had my time over again, I would replace the kids with a couple of animals....much cheaper to keep, enjoyment  etc still there...





pets can be expensive 

no one tells u how expensive teenagers are 

stay away from expensive/powerful/vintage cars

dont drink, smoke, gamble or do drugs (unless u can show positive expectancy)

develop an interest in asceticism

ps my kids are like raising hogs, so i combine the two maybe


----------



## MR. (5 April 2009)

Trembling Hand said:


> Are you saying that sound business practises will fail in the future?




Depends on what one defines as sound business practises.  I’m sure many companies recently thought they had sound business practices in place.  Perhaps their perception of what they thought as “sound” is now somewhat different? Who knows?  If assets had to be sold off (in fire sale) and the proceeds far exceed all debts allowing the company to continue trading profitably, than yes this would be sound. Although if that company was a listed company I’d hate to think what the P/E might now be. 

To answer the question “No” I’m not saying that companies which adopt sound business practices will go broke.  Just saying that the *easy money for most is now gone*.  Kincella now having 30-40% debt over property.  I don’t think this 30% is an unacceptable risk, but this may not have always been the case and that is what I am referring to.  To have the full debts now for those properties as one starts out could now have a somewhat different result. What happened if you live in Japan and you invested there some years back? 

It’s fair to extend here what has worked for them as a tip to others without intentions of gloating, but timing if you recognize it or not had a lot to do with the result. But my main point was debt is not the only way.
I think “nun’s” pretty much cleared up the rest.

Just wanted to the "small" cars arn't selling either!


----------



## ivant (5 April 2009)

Some good tips to being wealthy and rich.

1. Save everything, eat baked beans.
2. Invest everything in houses, preferably in US into subprime
3. Die with nothing but a van for $5,000.

That's life in a nutshell, there you have it guys. 

Oh if you managed to avoid part 2, and keep it in cash, you will have a van and a few million dollars. WOOT! I'll stick to my Audi thanks.


----------



## dumadiscount (15 March 2011)

any other tips for the youngins here?


----------



## ROE (17 March 2011)

Solly said:


> What are your tips and techniques in acquiring wealth and riches ?
> 
> Are there things you'd liike to share ?
> 
> ...




Read a book called "The Millionaire Next Door" by Dr Stanley
http://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Next-Door-Thomas-Stanley/dp/0671015206

you may not agree with everything in there but that is pretty good foundation for building wealth.... Just become a PAW and not UAW...

and his next book  could be boring sometimes but as long as you get the message in this book you are right ...
http://www.amazon.com/Stop-Acting-Rich-Millionaire/dp/0470482559

and it's not a myth I know many people in real life that are remarkable like what Dr Stanley mentioned in those books ... super rich but still buy No brand name at supermarket for their food and drive cheap reliable cars


----------



## doctorj (18 March 2011)

dumadiscount said:


> any other tips for the youngins here?



It depends what kind of wealth and riches you're talking about. If you're talking about financial security then working hard for a good education and well paying job, combined with some financial prudence and you've got a decent chance.  If you're talking about 10's of millions before you're 30-35, then there is no money without risk.  The wealthiest people I've met have taken incredible risks - one guy bought a second hand Mercedes in the early 90's, took it to Russia where it made him look super rich, then he used it to pick up his clients and he'd sell them insurance while driving around Moscow with the government collapsing and gangs running the city. He never really even had a proper office at the time.  He survived all the corruption and intimidation and now he's a dollar billionare.

There are many more similar stories.  The Social Network documents something similar - a guy left the system and walked away from a first rate eduction and shunned short term success to follow a vision and almost accidentally became a billionare.  If you want riches, you must take risk and, frankly, there's no better time than when you're young and don't have a family/mortgage!


----------



## Bill M (18 March 2011)

ROE said:


> and it's not a myth I know many people in real life that are remarkable like what Dr Stanley mentioned in those books ... super rich but still buy No brand name at supermarket for their food and drive cheap reliable cars




And that's me in a nutshell (not the super rich part though). You can save so much money buy being smart, not stingy, just smart. For example lets say you drive your car 200 kilometers per week. In that week most people would pass several different service stations. Whilst driving past all I do is take a mental note of the fuel prices of each station. Then I pounce on the cheapest. I save between $10 and $20 per week just doing a simple thing like that.

The best tip for "youngins" here from me is:

Never borrow money for depreciating assets. TV's, Fridges and *CARS* especially. If you can't afford it then buy something cheaper with the cash you have.

and

Never spend more than you earn. Some people can't grasp this concept.

Simple rules, Good luck to you all.


----------



## medicowallet (18 March 2011)

My many principles can pretty much be summed up into 5 points.

1. Earn more - train yourself up, work smarter not harder if possible, but work harder if you need to.
2. Spend less - use a budget, utilise resources until they become cost inefficient.
3. Invest wisely - do your own research, and if you do not understand something, learn it or leave it.
4. Getting rich steadily is much safer than trying to rule the world in 5 years.
5. Diversify - missing out a bit on a particular asset is not worth the risk of being overexposed to it (imo residential housing atm)

other rules

1. Never go into a partnership if you own less than 50% (the law sucks with partnerships)
2. If it is too good to be true, check that it is legal


----------



## Gringotts Bank (18 March 2011)

Is Steve Jobs rich?  

Not only rich but quite the philosopher.  Just have a look at this:

quotes from Steve Jobs:

    Almost everything–all external expectations, all pride, all fear of embarrassment or failure–these things just fall away in the face of death, leaving only what is truly important. Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose. You are already naked. There is no reason not to follow your heart.

    Here’s to the crazy ones, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the round pegs in the square holes… the ones who see things differently ”” they’re not fond of rules… You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them, but the only thing you can’t do is ignore them because they change things… they push the human race forward, and while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius, because the ones who are crazy enough to think that they can change the world, are the ones who do.

    Your time is limited, so don’t waste it living someone else’s life. Don’t be trapped by dogma – which is living with the results of other people’s thinking. Don’t let the noise of other’s opinions drown out your own inner voice. And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary.


----------



## adobee (18 March 2011)

Living within your means is my number one tip..

Then for education watch:

Wall Street
Boiler Room
Glengary Glenross
Get Rich or Die Trying
Good Fellas
Casino
Scarface
The company men


----------



## tech/a (18 March 2011)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Is Steve Jobs rich?
> 
> Not only rich but quite the philosopher.  Just have a look at this:
> 
> ...




GG
Brilliant.

Adding to paragraph (1)
There are 2 biggies in life.
(1) Birth
(2) Death.
The rest fills in the time between.
Enjoy *EVERY* minute of it and waste little. When ever you want to put something off to another day--today maybe the last opportunity you have.---Live (in the) *NOW*.


----------



## explod (18 March 2011)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Is Steve Jobs rich?
> 
> Here’s to the crazy ones, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the round pegs in the square holes… the ones who see things differently ”” they’re not fond of rules… You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them, but the only thing you can’t do is ignore them because they change things… they push the human race forward, and while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius, because the ones who are crazy enough to think that they can change the world, are the ones who do.




Amen

And a good weekend to all.


----------



## tothemax6 (18 March 2011)

Wealth is a function of time preferences, intelligence, knowledge, environment, time and luck. Since you can't do much about your luck and intelligence, and you can't increase the hours in a day, you can only change your knowledge, environment, and time preferences.
That is to say:
"save and invest instead of consume and waste"
"move somewhere with better opportunity if possible"
"study up"


----------



## ROE (18 March 2011)

I think most people confuse that because you have a lot of money you are wealthy...

Wealth to me is not about having 100m in the bank, wealth to me is you be able to sustain your life style if you lose your job or don't need to work.

A doctor earning 500K a year have several millions in the bank or asset but his out going is 500K, from expensive home and car and high up keep every year ....he wont last long without a job and that to me he isn't wealthy.

A teacher on the other hand earn 50K a year has a a few hundred thousands stack up in asset such as properties and shares and has a habit of living for around 20K a year...she is far more wealthier than the doctor if she happen to be out of a job....


----------



## VSntchr (18 March 2011)

ROE said:


> I think most people confuse that because you have a lot of money you are wealthy...
> 
> Wealth to me is not about having 100m in the bank, wealth to me is you be able to sustain your life style if you lose your job or don't need to work.
> 
> ...




Amen.


----------



## ROE (18 March 2011)

Bill M said:


> And that's me in a nutshell (not the super rich part though). You can save so much money buy being smart, not stingy, just smart. For example lets say you drive your car 200 kilometers per week. In that week most people would pass several different service stations. Whilst driving past all I do is take a mental note of the fuel prices of each station. Then I pounce on the cheapest. I save between $10 and $20 per week just doing a simple thing like that.
> 
> The best tip for "youngins" here from me is:
> 
> ...




I do similar thing

I refuse to pay any sticker price.. I bargain and negotiate on all deal big and small
usually I get 10-15% off most things I buy.

I drive reliable Japanese cars, cheap on service, cheap on repair and cheap on the pocket.

40-50% of my cash taken out of my hand and go into the stock market each month.. I'm fairly discipline I don't touch that money ...dividend get reinvested into more stocks...all gains stay in that account never to be touch until such time
I need it for some something important.....compounding at its best....

if I need to buy a new laptop I have to work out how I'm going to fund it with 50% of the pay, if I cant afford it well bad luck  maybe save some more and get it next year...

I mostly buy no brand products taste the same except 30% cheaper

I walk around with $5 thongs and $10 Croc which are to me the most comfortable
stuff and I love it  why pay more when you like this stuff.

I live in Mr average house, cheap on rate and upkeep and no debt.

Don't smoke or drink ..only drink during Xmas or some special occasion..

Still cutting Domino's coupons for pizza.

Dont have expensive watch, that what mobile phone are for ..phone call and watch.

my only expensive habit is coffee and willing to pay for a nice cup once a day 

I pick up most of these habits from the people I know and from Dr Stanley books, best thing that happen to me, no more money worries, and the first shock was when I was at this person house real rich, no debt and he unpack his groceries all no brand...that has a powerful effect on me


----------



## tothemax6 (18 March 2011)

ROE said:


> I pick up most of these habits from the people I know and from Dr Stanley books, best thing that happen to me, no more money worries, and the first shock was when I was at this person house real rich, no debt and he unpack his groceries all no brand...that has a powerful effect on me



But when do you intend to start consuming the wealth you are accumulating? You cannot take it with you past the grave.


----------



## Bill M (18 March 2011)

ROE said:


> Still cutting Domino's coupons for pizza.




That's so funny only because I do it too and my wife loves Dominos too so we both enjoy it. 2 large pizzas for $11.90 with coupons.

Here's another tip. I have a NAB Gold Card. I also hold NAB shares and as such I get the shareholders discount card. If I spend $8,000 per year (always do) on that card then the yearly fee is waved as I am a shareholder. In the 10 years I have had it I have had 2 overseas airfares, bought a tivo and at least 2 x $100 Woolies Store Cards, all for free with the points I accumulate. I have not paid 1c in interest during that time. I make a profit from my credit card. Just recently they upgraded me to a Platinum Card for free.


----------



## tech/a (18 March 2011)

ROE said:


> I do similar thing
> 
> I refuse to pay any sticker price.. I bargain and negotiate on all deal big and small
> usually I get 10-15% off most things I buy.
> ...




Fraid I'm much the opposite.

I get one shot at this life so Ive designed my lifestyle and those around me so I/we can afford some class.
I Dont want to concern myself with the price of Petrol or Diesel at the pumps. I run a fleet.
I Dont want my wife to see something she loves and looks great in but has to put back on the rack because she "thinks" the price may need my approval.
I Dont want to go out to dinner and haggle about the bill because 4 bottles of wine were purchased with friends and I'm the only one who doesn't drink.
I Dont want to sit in Cattle class on a long haul I want to lie down and sleep.
I Dont want to knock back a trip to Europe because I cant afford it.
I Dont want to shop at K mart.
I like to look at and walk/run along the beach
I like to spoil my wife!
I like to spoil friends and family.
I like to spoil myself.

I Dont want to worry about Money there are more important things to worry about.

If I'm ever lying on my death bed I want to be able to say to myself (as I do now).

That---Was a BLAST!


----------



## Noddy (18 March 2011)

True richness and wealth comes from within.
If you achieve happiness and contentment, you are rich.
Money, travel, possessions have very little to do with it.
Read the Dalai Lama's books, and you'll realise how it works.


----------



## Julia (18 March 2011)

ROE said:


> I do similar thing
> 
> I refuse to pay any sticker price.. I bargain and negotiate on all deal big and small
> usually I get 10-15% off most things I buy.
> ...



Well, that's just fine ROE, but what is the actual purpose of all the above?
Essentially the idea of creating wealth is to allow us to enjoy our lives, to provide a sense of security, and hell , to buy some pure pleasure.

Tech has set all this out perfectly.

I don't know what your level of wealth is ROE, but given your advice about how to make money over now many years, I'm guessing you're pretty OK in terms of financial self sufficiency.  So what is all this frugality about?  Is it essentially just now a habit, or do you get some sense of satisfaction out of continually thinking to yourself "Wow, I just saved a dollar".

My father was pretty wealthy.  But he never discovered how to enjoy what he had created.  He remained miserly and miserable until his death.

As far as I'm concerned, the accumulation of money is nothing more than a means to the end of providing security and enjoyment.
I detest the thought of it being an end in itself.




tech/a said:


> Fraid I'm much the opposite.
> 
> I get one shot at this life so Ive designed my lifestyle and those around me so I/we can afford some class.
> I Dont want to concern myself with the price of Petrol or Diesel at the pumps. I run a fleet.
> ...



Amen.



Noddy said:


> True richness and wealth comes from within.
> If you achieve happiness and contentment, you are rich.
> Money, travel, possessions have very little to do with it.
> Read the Dalai Lama's books, and you'll realise how it works.



Fine, Noddy.  But I don't think you can ever dismiss the relevance of money in achieving said happiness and contentment.
Pretty damn hard to feel a sense of bliss when you can't pay the rent and can't buy enough to eat.


----------



## medicowallet (18 March 2011)

Amen too...

gotta get the money to live the life however.

I agree that getting there should be fun too!! Just need to work smarter and invest wisely so that what you do sacrifice benefits you in the long run.


----------



## Spongle (19 March 2011)

Having a job is usually a good start

Don't study humanities at university unless you want to be an academic

Don't put on dance parties

Study for a proffession that will always exist (dosent always result in riches, take nurses for example)

Do this investment stuff, but do it all or nothing like everything in life should be done and don't do it for the cash, do it to aquire skills and for the joy of learning.

Live poor for a few years, when you aquire money again you will not be used to it and will save shedloads... forget putting 10% of your cash aside for saving. Try 50%.

Get every cent you are entitled to from the government whatever that may be

Don't smoke meth, don't drink, gamble etc. all drugs legal and illegal are ridiculously expensive. Enjoy other hedonistic pursuits like music, sex, food.

Don't buy expensive clothes or other expensive crap... this excludes your hobbies and/or passions as these are worthforking out for.

If you are from Sydney don't live on the north shore, upper or lower. You'll save a fortune and you won't be surrounded by wankers.

Study something of immense difficulty like particle physics, higher  chemistry, pure mathematics or neuroscience... finance is a doddle in comparison.


----------



## nukz (19 March 2011)

Marry some rich old widow before they die & make sure they add you on the will


----------



## ROE (19 March 2011)

Julia said:


> Well, that's just fine ROE, but what is the actual purpose of all the above?
> Essentially the idea of creating wealth is to allow us to enjoy our lives, to provide a sense of security, and hell , to buy some pure pleasure.
> 
> Tech has set all this out perfectly.
> ...




My wealth and happiness is not about have a big house or drive expensive cars
or go to some exotic place for holiday

My happiness lies in loving the thing I do, it doesn't have to be expensive

I get no satisfaction carry $1000 dollar watch when my mobile phone can tell me the time, In fact I don't feel right wearing a thousand dollar watch.

I like Crocs for $10 and love it why would I waste $200 on a pair of shoes? ... My no brand milk taste the same as the branded one why would I spend more for essentially pretty colors and some name???

people who have a lot of money and spend I got no problem with that ... if spending your cash make people happy do it.

I find happiness in other mean other than spending money and my saving purpose is not so that I can consume  more ... 

I save because it gave me financial security, market crash, GFC not losing one sleep over it...

I save also to give me the luxury to work in place I only love to be in ... 
I don't work in jobs I don't like... 

I dont get ties down to a job, I can go home early at any day of the week and spend time with the kids or attend their performance or if I need extra two weeks holiday for something important I can take it....

having money is not about living the material life, it's the intangible benefits that goes with having money...

If I have extra $10 mil my life style would not have change much
I still get to swim at a beach, ride my bikes, paddle my kayaks on the rivers
and when my Japanese car dies I just buy another one that will last me the next 15 years...

Status and brand name doesnt register with me in fact it may attract unwanted attention to your life.. Why wouldn't anyone steal my 5 years old Mazda, when a BMW park next to it  

I rock up at garden centre and tell them I dont have much money can you give me a discount on the gravels, yes sir this dude doesn't look like he has much money ..driving in with a BMW they probably laugh at me  

I dont know anything about your father so cant say much there but I ain't miserable and I'm very happy 
I get to go places I want to go, buy stuff I want to buy and have all the time in the world to do what I love to do...


----------



## tothemax6 (19 March 2011)

Noddy said:


> True richness and wealth comes from within.
> If you achieve happiness and contentment, you are rich.
> Money, travel, possessions have very little to do with it.
> Read the Dalai Lama's books, and you'll realise how it works.



No, you are happy and content. Richness is how much you own.
Its hard to be content when you can't afford anything.
The Dalai Lama's insights are applicable to Dalai Lama's only - i.e. guys who sit around all day and do nothing but talk fluff, and get fed by the donations of others.


----------



## ROE (19 March 2011)

Noddy said:


> True richness and wealth comes from within.
> If you achieve happiness and contentment, you are rich.
> Money, travel, possessions have very little to do with it.
> Read the Dalai Lama's books, and you'll realise how it works.




I know what you mean  I read some of those books

the example Julia give is a little extreme no one can be happy 

if they cant feed themselves but the message is if you have food and shelters

if you content with what you have you are the happiest person.

he said dont want it all, want all you have 

people have to use a bit of common senses, he doesn't preach someone who have hit rock bottom and cant feed themselves, he preach to the battlers who has a jobs and have food on the table and have shelters.

and there is Frugal and there is wasteful, people who are frugal doesn't mean they don't spend money.
They just pay the same for less...

I buy a $2000 TV but it takes me 5-10 minutes to knock it off another 10%.

When I bought my new Mazda I use higher authority negotiation tactics, got $3000 off just like that
less than 30 minutes phone call and another 10 minutes for the higher authority tricks.

A pizza coupons stuck on my fridge take me a few seconds to chuck it in the domino site and get extra few bucks off.

You be surprise you save thousands of dollars by being frugal in your daily life and make it a routine.
and I don't have to worry about my wife buying top brands stuff, she is more frugal than I am


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (19 March 2011)

Being born rich helps.
As does marrying a rich person's child.
Apart from that luck and hard work, often not in equal proportions, surprisingly.
That is for dollars, property etc.

Happiness is much more difficult as has been noted above.

gg


----------



## tech/a (19 March 2011)

More come to mind.

*As mentioned*---Dont have kids until you can afford them.
A very large majority of the population are single parents in a few years.
The Girls struggle raising kids --job---house and most guys dont want the responsibility of someone else's kids.

The guys have to pay maintenance rent and have little to offer a new partner.
Its been mentioned before but it is a biggie.

*Think Differently to the Masses*.
Working at $30 an hr wont make you wealthy.

*Work in some way for yourself.*

A mate of mine was retiring and he had a meager fund


*Example*. I told him the same thing and got the *SAME* answer. 

"Ive been a---- all my life I dont know anything else."
What could I do.
Adelaide is screaming for Excavators I told him--buy one and put it to work.

*BUT I DONT HAVE A TICKET TO OPERATE IT--I CANT.*

My reply
Who said you were going to operate it.
There are 100s of un employed Excavator operators out there for $28/hr  Go hire one.
(a good one).

He now has a 22 tonne Hitachi excavator---its floated to work by a contractor.
Neil his employee drives it a $26.50/Hr. He sets it to work at $150/ hr and $250/ hr with a Rock breaker. He is now (After 12 mths) permanently booked.

He plays golf enjoys life still cant operate the machine and spends a few days a week visiting site and pushing Palm---coffee's and lunch with clients.
He pulls around $3500/week taxable profit.

Now he only has 1--
I have 5

Mate of mine is in retail.
As he says I can sell 10 items in 1 hr with $150 profit on each (Furniture)
and I have 5 salesmen who could do exactly the same

*See the SHIFT IN THINKING!!*


----------



## Julia (19 March 2011)

ROE:  great reply, thank you.  Sounds like genuine contentment to me.  And simply not being wasteful.

I agree with all you say and overall do similarly.  Just wouldn't go cutting coupons out for pizza and can't always be bothered haggling over price.


----------



## So_Cynical (19 March 2011)

ROE said:


> Still cutting Domino's coupons for pizza.




That's pathetic...you need help.

Seriously dude.



Noddy said:


> True richness and wealth comes from within.
> If you achieve happiness and contentment, you are rich.
> Money, travel, possessions have very little to do with it.
> Read the Dalai Lama's books, and you'll realise how it works.




That's the sort of crap social workers tell to losers to stop them being depressed and over drinking, beating up the missus.


----------



## qldfrog (19 March 2011)

Two points I would add in that thread which have not been discussed but do make a huge difference:
1)
work on your marriage and commit with the right person:
 that is an easy way to save half of your wealth and has the bonus of increasing your happiness
So yes divorce is a huge wealth destructor so keep this in mind unless you marry a rich widow......;-)
Limited number of kids does help as well.

2) 
think taxes:
you will get taxed at 50% on your hard work so make sure you minimise this (legally)
If you are young, leave australia and go expat in HK, asia, basically any place where you will not be hammered by taxes...and SAVE;
Then if in Oz, or when back work for yourself: more legal way to save taxes, a happier life: the boss you hate is a customer; so much easier to handle;

And be lucky, but luck can be changed : be daring

was born in europe (western, highest education, cushioned jobs available there) 
moved to australia leaving a corporate job [to consternation of friends, family and managers)and landed with my backpack in Adelaide 17y ago with 20% pay cut on my first job here, moved 10 times or so, changed specialisation and got lucky to catch both the dotcom and the mining booms; own business, limited debt, lucky now not to have to really worry about money, jobs I like otherwise i leave; travel, enjoy life (you have only one) and just targetting the date where I can fully pre retire (ie stop the normal job and open a B&B, or play in my hobby farm)
No one I left behind in europe is anywhere near this level of happiness/wealth

So dare to be happy and reach enough wealth


----------



## ROE (19 March 2011)

So_Cynical said:


> That's pathetic...you need help.
> 
> Seriously dude.
> 
> ...




I don't find it pathetic about punching in a codes on a computer and save me a few bucks on pizzas..I'm sure a lot of other people do it...

Dominos wont be making those crazy sales if it wasn't for those coupons and they wouldn't be giving it out years after years if no one use them..

for you it may be pathetic but for thousand of others it just a routing thing they don't mind doing it at all.

Probably said enough in the thread and put my view across, don't want to get into tic for tac argument or attacks


----------



## Wysiwyg (19 March 2011)

ROE said:


> I don't find it pathetic about punching in a codes on a computer and save me a few bucks on pizzas..I'm sure a lot of other people do it



 Love your posts and investment philosophy ROE.  Don't run away ya hear.


----------



## skyQuake (19 March 2011)

tech/a said:


> More come to mind.
> 
> *As mentioned*---Dont have kids until you can afford them.
> A very large majority of the population are single parents in a few years.
> ...




Excellent post.

Too many people are stuck in their 9-5 cycle, even those with a bit of vision can see only property or shares.

Closed minds aplenty


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (19 March 2011)

I find meditation the way to real riches. 

The enclosed youtube on meditation by one of the disciples of Sirrumphrei Appelbei points the way towards the achievement of bliss in under 40 seconds.

He like all enlightened people makes light of his holiness.



gg


----------



## Smurf1976 (19 March 2011)

ROE said:


> I don't find it pathetic about punching in a codes on a computer and save me a few bucks on pizzas..I'm sure a lot of other people do it...
> 
> Dominos wont be making those crazy sales if it wasn't for those coupons and they wouldn't be giving it out years after years if no one use them..
> 
> for you it may be pathetic but for thousand of others it just a routing thing they don't mind doing it at all.



I see no reason to pay full price if someone is freely offering a discount without even needing to negotiate.


----------



## skc (19 March 2011)

tech/a said:


> He now has a 22 tonne Hitachi excavator---its floated to work by a contractor.
> Neil his employee drives it a $26.50/Hr. He sets it to work at $150/ hr and $250/ hr with a Rock breaker. He is now (After 12 mths) permanently booked.
> 
> He plays golf enjoys life still cant operate the machine and spends a few days a week visiting site and pushing Palm---coffee's and lunch with clients.
> ...




That sounds like a great investment. Where do I get more information??


----------



## tech/a (20 March 2011)

Go look for it.

Assess Demand
Assess Costs
Assess Cashflow
Assess expertise--Can you gain the work.
Assess OHS requirements--JSA's  SWMS etc Log books etc.

An excavator is but one example *find what people want and make it available.*
Bobcats
Trucks (Tippers)
Rollers
Graders
Attachments to machines make huge money addons a 30K attachment can add $100/hr! (Rock breakers,compactors,Drill rigs--etc.)
To name a few.

There are more outside of the civil field

*Think ENTREPRENEURIAL*


----------



## Ageo (20 March 2011)

A good example of this is me and my mum.

She looks at her energy bill and works so hard to see how much she can save on it, but i tell her the only problem with saving is that its capped (i mean your not gonna get it for free always).

Me on the otherhand i think about making not saving..... 

A mentor said this to me a while back

Saving is limited
Making is unlimited

If you learn how to make money then there is no limit to anything. Unfortunately 95% of the population falls in the saving category.


----------



## Dowdy (20 March 2011)

Ageo said:


> A good example of this is me and my mum.
> 
> She looks at her energy bill and works so hard to see how much she can save on it, but i tell her the only problem with saving is that its capped (i mean your not gonna get it for free always).
> 
> ...





I disagree. 

I have a saying....

It's not how much you earn, *it's how much you save* that determines how successful you'll be


You get people earing 100k a year, yet they're living pay check to pay check?!?


----------



## tonza (20 March 2011)

It's all about the income. Saving and return on investment is just a sideshow (albeit a very important one).

Invest your time in increasing your income. You are only financially rich if you have more than the guys standing next to you. It's far easier to outperform in the income department than it is to outperform in the savings and return on investment department. 

Always work harder than the guy next to you. Never miss an opportunity. Learn to adapt. Always operate outside your comfort zone. Never tread water.


----------



## tech/a (20 March 2011)

Dowdy said:


> I disagree.
> 
> I have a saying....
> 
> ...




"Its not how much you earn but *WHAT YOU DO WITH IT* that will determine your wealth."

My "Earnings" give me the ability to borrow (when required large sums) due to serviceability--- this in turn maximizes return on $ invested and I like making $$s from large sums of other peoples money--Property--Steel bought on Indent---Leases on income producing equipment.

Saving it * ISN'T PUTTING IT TO WORK!*

Your wasting your biggest asset--- crippled by fear of loss---your not thinking entrepreneurial.
Your thinking like a squirrel.


----------



## sammy84 (20 March 2011)

Ageo said:


> A mentor said this to me a while back
> 
> Saving is limited
> Making is unlimited
> ...




Agree completely. It goes completely against the way we are trained by society to think, but that is exactly why thinking this way will lead to greater rewards. 

My old saying used to be 'live beyond your means (within reason) as then you will be forced to find a way to catch up'. It was living this way that had taught me how to trade and how not to think of earning potential as something that can ever be capped.


----------



## Smurf1976 (20 March 2011)

Ageo said:


> A good example of this is me and my mum.
> 
> She looks at her energy bill and works so hard to see how much she can save on it, but i tell her the only problem with saving is that its capped (i mean your not gonna get it for free always).
> 
> Me on the otherhand i think about making not saving...



Agreed in principle but I still see no reason to be paying $1000+ quarterly power bills just for the sake of it when with a bit of thought that can easily be halved (or more).

Saying that saving is limited but earning is unlimited maybe true. But I could say that he earning capacity of any mine is limited, since the volume of ore is finite. That hasn't stopped the likes of BHP making a fortune digging holes in the ground.

If there's a $2000 saving each year to be had then why not take it? It's not as though doing so is in any way stopping you from also maximising earnings. 

There's an awful lot of "broke" people out there earning well above the average wage. I know a few and the underlying story is pretty consistent. They just don't value money, hence they fail to get value when they spend. The end result is that they end up spending a fortune and getting little or nothing for it whilst I always aim to get value. No surprises who's better off in terms of both real tangible wealth as well as $ invested. They blow the lot and get little for it, I invest instead thus creating a growing passive income stream.

Comparing one specific example. They earn big $, far more than I do. They drive fancy cars, wear expensive clothes even when at home, smoke cigarettes and have pay TV. I drive a modest car, don't find a need to wear designer clothes when doing the gardening, don't smoke and certainly won't be paying for TV when there's more than I could watch on free to air anyway. 

The end result is they rent whereas I own outright an almost identical house. They have compulsory super and that's it. I have metals, shares and cash as well. Remember, they earn far more than I do. But earning big $ isn't going to help if you throw it all away.


----------



## Dowdy (20 March 2011)

tech/a said:


> "Its not how much you earn but *WHAT YOU DO WITH IT* that will determine your wealth."
> 
> My "Earnings" give me the ability to borrow (when required large sums) due to serviceability--- this in turn maximizes return on $ invested and I like making $$s from large sums of other peoples money--Property--Steel bought on Indent---Leases on income producing equipment.
> 
> ...




I get what your saying but it varies from individual.

What if you're using your saving to buy products and then sell them for a profit. Hence I put my saving to work. But my profit goes back into my bank account until I want to buy another product to sell for profit. 


My products don't get me any money until I sell them but I've been doing it for the last 3 years and statically I get better returns then the stock market and housing combined 

http://stores.ebay.com.au/Dowd-Hardware


Which is why I say savings is so important since I needed some money to start off with


----------



## tech/a (20 March 2011)

Dowd

Your putting it to work--


----------



## prawn_86 (20 March 2011)

tech/a said:


> *Think ENTREPRENEURIAL*




For those who are not entrepeneurial then saving is far better than doing nothing. Obviously it pays to keep your eyes/ears open for opportunities, but some people do not have the know-how or experience to start a business.

By the sounds of most of the things you mentioned, they are all within a similar industry as that is the one you have experience with. For someone not in the industry it would be a lot harder to know what is actually needed


----------



## tech/a (20 March 2011)

prawn_86 said:


> For those who are not entrepeneurial then saving is far better than doing nothing. Obviously it pays to keep your eyes/ears open for opportunities, but some people do not have the know-how or experience to start a business.
> 
> By the sounds of most of the things you mentioned, they are all within a similar industry as that is the one you have experience with. For someone not in the industry it would be a lot harder to know what is actually needed




True.
You know there was a time I knew nothing about my industry either!
I doubt anyone who starts or even buys a business has much idea about it at the very beginning.

Tips for acquiring wealth from me have Self employment at the top.

Then YOU govern your income---not your Boss.

I would argue that very few that do not have a degree behind them could create real wealth without self employment.

I made matric--thats it. (I failed that as well).


----------



## prawn_86 (20 March 2011)

tech/a said:


> I would argue that very few that do not have a degree behind them could create real wealth without self employment.




Agreed.

So for those who are not interested in self employment education is a good way to acquire wealth. 

I would say if you are in the top X (5, 10?) percent of what you do then you will be paid well above average, and if you are the best at what you do you can pretty much set your price even if you are working for someone else.


----------



## Smurf1976 (20 March 2011)

prawn_86 said:


> I would say if you are in the top X (5, 10?) percent of what you do then you will be paid well above average, and if you are the best at what you do you can pretty much set your price even if you are working for someone else.



Whatever you do, do it well...

I can't remember who I'm quoting, but those words have always been on my mind when it comes to matters of work, employment etc.


----------



## nukz (20 March 2011)

Who has ever created great wealth through employment lol, or is this thread about becoming middle class lol

you have to create/invest for yourself or inherit... working for somebody else is not going to get you there, this is the problem with the education system teaching us to work for somebody else.


----------



## So_Cynical (20 March 2011)

Crappy pizzas...the road to incredible riches is paved with crappy pizzas and 100000 dollar excavators. 

Perhaps the real challenge is to somehow combine crappy pizzas and excavators...mmmm


----------



## skc (20 March 2011)

nukz said:


> Who has ever created great wealth through employment lol, or is this thread about becoming middle class lol
> 
> you have to create/invest for yourself or inherit... working for somebody else is not going to get you there, this is the problem with the education system teaching us to work for somebody else.




You can definitely create great wealth through employment...
C-level executives, board members, investment bankers, private equity, institutional traders, partners at law firms, accounting firms, management consultancies, specialist doctors, entertainers, sports star... And even stock brokers, real estate agents and insurnace brokers. They are all employees capable of earning earn multi-million $$ year after year....some of them don't even need a uni degree. You just need to be on top of your game.

http://news.hereisthecity.com/2007/01/22/the_highest_paid_inv/

To me employment is as easy a path as they come when it comes to acquiring wealth. Not everyone can do it well... but that's why not everyone is wealthy.


----------



## nukz (20 March 2011)

skc said:


> You can definitely create great wealth through employment...
> C-level executives, board members, investment bankers, private equity, institutional traders, partners at law firms, accounting firms, management consultancies, specialist doctors, entertainers, sports star... And even stock brokers, real estate agents and insurnace brokers. They are all employees capable of earning earn multi-million $$ year after year....some of them don't even need a uni degree. You just need to be on top of your game.
> 
> http://news.hereisthecity.com/2007/01/22/the_highest_paid_inv/
> ...




I guess it depends on your definition of wealthy is as well, i would argue that sure some board members are wealthy but so is the CEO of ANZ but thats not a job most people will get. 

I would also argue that lawyers, accountants ect are just middle class. There are ways to make good money in parts of finance but you are always constrained by your employer.. if you have the skills go out on your own and you will prosper much more.


----------



## BrightGreenGlow (20 March 2011)

Your job won't make you rich it's what you do outside your job that makes you rich. Anyone that disagrees would be in the 5% of people that have 250k a year jobs. Even still they may not be free in a financial way.


----------



## skc (21 March 2011)

nukz said:


> I guess it depends on your definition of wealthy is as well, i would argue that sure some board members are wealthy but so is the CEO of ANZ but thats not a job most people will get.
> 
> I would also argue that lawyers, accountants ect are just middle class. There are ways to make good money in parts of finance but you are always constrained by your employer.. if you have the skills go out on your own and you will prosper much more.






BrightGreenGlow said:


> Your job won't make you rich it's what you do outside your job that makes you rich. Anyone that disagrees would be in the 5% of people that have 250k a year jobs. Even still they may not be free in a financial way.




You don't need to be CEO of ANZ to be rich from your income. 

The range of income for lawyers is very wide, but there is effectively no cap (or a very high cap)... sure your average suburb solicitor is probably upper middle class, but tell me again if you think a corporate lawyer making $2.5m a year is in the middle class. 

250K a year job is nothing... plenty of senior management in large corporations will be on that much. Prob over 2-3,000 of them in Telstra alone.

If you think a job cannot make you rich then you are in the wrong job!


----------



## prawn_86 (21 March 2011)

nukz said:


> I would also argue that lawyers, accountants ect are just middle class. There are ways to make good money in parts of finance but you are always constrained by your employer.. if you have the skills go out on your own and you will prosper much more.




Depending on the type of job you may also get a comission so therefore directly correlates to the amount of work you put in. Plenty of guys working for hedge funds getting paid millions of dollars pa basic, plus comissions. One of the higher end salaries is Aussie Greg Coffey who was *being paid 250m pa working for someone else*

As SKC said lawyers, accountants etc it just depends on what area of that profession. I hear a rumour that Packers personal lawyer is up around the $5m pa wage. Not bad if you can get it


----------



## tech/a (21 March 2011)

> If you think a job cannot make you rich then you are in the wrong job!




More likely your just not qualified for a job like those you describe.
These jobs ARE limited to a very small % of the population.

Working for yourself is not limited even a dunce like me can do it!
I couldnt be a Corporate Lawyer of Commercial Airline pilot.
You wouldnt want me performing Surgery,or Dentistry. 
I and many here would never be employed by a hedge fund---too DUMB!

Getting wealthy from a Job isnt any easier than working for yourself.


----------



## nukz (21 March 2011)

skc said:


> If you think a job cannot make you rich then you are in the wrong job!




It's more i just don't care about having a job lol  i prefer to do things my own way and hate the idea of the corporate ladder and what you need to do to climb it. 

It depends on your way of thinking, if your in the mind set of somebody who creates for themself then you won't last long in jobs anyway.


----------



## prawn_86 (21 March 2011)

tech/a said:


> Getting wealthy from a Job isnt any easier than working for yourself.




No but i dont think it's any harder. Either way you still have to apply yourself in ways that others in the same field do not.


----------



## skc (21 March 2011)

nukz said:


> It's more i just don't care about having a job lol  i prefer to do things my own way and hate the idea of the corporate ladder and what you need to do to climb it.
> 
> It depends on your way of thinking, if your in the mind set of somebody who creates for themself then you won't last long in jobs anyway.




Nothing wrong with that. It's just not what you were saying a few posts ago. 



nukz said:


> Who has ever created great wealth through employment lol, or is this thread about becoming middle class lol
> 
> you have to create/invest for yourself or inherit... working for somebody else is not going to get you there, this is the problem with the education system teaching us to work for somebody else.




Also, being an employee doesn't necessarily mean you can't create things for yourself... it all depends on the role/circumstances.

------------


prawn_86 said:


> No but i dont think it's any harder. Either way you still have to apply yourself in ways that others in the same field do not.




Completely agree. There are different ways to get rich so the point is to be open to all ideas and find a path that suits you. Don't give up on one path because of wrong information / idea (e.g. No one ever gets rich working as an employee).


----------



## Dowdy (21 March 2011)

Too much emphasis from some member here that working for yourself is the way to wealth but stats show (these are just rough stats from memory) that around 80-90% of business fail within the first 2 years.

Most people who try to become their own boss work extremely hard/ long hours. There is no 9-5 routine and forget about it all when you get home - you're working 7 days and the only time you get a break is when you sleep. The main reason people start their own business is for independence and not particularly extreme riches.



As with people who work, if you work hard you'll earn the big bucks. Sales reps, for instance, can earn big bucks if they work hard for it. My friend used to work at Dick Smiths. He said some of the top sales reps earn over 100K but like I said before...

It's not what you earn, it's what you save


----------



## tech/a (21 March 2011)

Dowdy said:


> Too much emphasis from some member here that working for yourself is the way to wealth but stats show (these are just rough stats from memory) that around 80-90% of business fail within the first 2 years.




Yes thats true.(many fail) Came close to bankruptcy twice myself but the question is "tips"---- thats mine.



> Most people who try to become their own boss work extremely hard/ long hours. There is no 9-5 routine and forget about it all when you get home - you're working 7 days and the only time you get a break is when you sleep. The main reason people start their own business is for independence and not particularly extreme riches.




Dont know where you get that from would love to see your stats but I feel its a personal hypothesis. I switch on to work when I arrive in the office and switch off when I leave. I have employees who worry more about my company than I do. Perhaps its their pay packets that they cant get elsewhere?




> As with people who work, if you work hard you'll earn the big bucks. Sales reps, for instance, can earn big bucks if they work hard for it. My friend used to work at Dick Smiths. He said some of the top sales reps earn over 100K but like I said before...
> 
> It's not what you earn, it's what you save




Some of my guys with cars bonuses and Fringe benifits earn close to what your touting.
Its about consistency $100k gives you a better lifestyle but Ill argue it wont give you wealth. Perhaps your and my definition of wealth are vastly different.
$100k a year is a good wage in my view.
$500k plus is an income---however derived which will bring you *sustained* wealth.

You keep on about this saving thingy.
Whats the point of having a million in the bank earning 5% interest when it can be working way harder for you?
Once we get a dose of inflation---and we will---your Cash will erode faster than a sand castle at high tide!


----------



## Dowdy (21 March 2011)

tech/a said:


> Yes thats true.(many fail) Came close to bankruptcy twice myself but the question is "tips"---- thats mine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





You're looking at it from a different perspective.

You're the multi-millionaire with several employees who has been in business for several decades (correct me if i'm wrong)

I'm staring out my business, working from home, with no employees (except my mum, who works for free) that has a 2nd job to bring in extra $$$.

Regarding your quote 


> Dont know where you get that from would love to see your stats but I feel its a personal hypothesis. I switch on to work when I arrive in the office and switch off when I leave. I have employees who worry more about my company than I do. Perhaps its their pay packets that they cant get elsewhere?




Looking at it from my perspective and many others who start their own, most don't hire employees until their cashflow is big enough to handle it which is why most take their work home with them

Like I said - different perspective.


----------



## VSntchr (21 March 2011)

$100k only "good"?

If i was making $100k a year from my job and investing it and earning the same % return I have been achieving over the last few years...I wouldnt need to work for too many more years!


----------



## tech/a (21 March 2011)

Dowdy said:


> You're looking at it from a different perspective.
> 
> You're the multi-millionaire with several employees who has been in business for several decades (correct me if i'm wrong)
> 
> ...




No Ive been where you are.

You have the potential to have far more potential and a much more profitable business than I due to the power of the net.

If you think about it a little Your not far off my thinking its just that your not allowing yourself to go there--YET.

Good luck with it anyone who gives it a go deserves all the support they can get.

Its worth the effort even though you'll swear at times its not!


----------



## Julia (21 March 2011)

tech/a said:


> You keep on about this saving thingy.
> Whats the point of having a million in the bank earning 5% interest when it can be working way harder for you?
> Once we get a dose of inflation---and we will---your Cash will erode faster than a sand castle at high tide!



It's not for me to interpret what Dowdy has said, but I took from his comments that 'saving' was simply the opposite to frivolously spending everything that comes in, something that plenty of people do.

Yes, Tech, you have set a great example of having a go, being determined, and succeeding, but to run your own business requires a particular mindset and personality.
Others are simply happier with less responsibility and working for an employer.

We don't, thank heavens, all want the same thing, and neither do we all experience satisfaction from the same work environment or challenge.

I like that we all derive satisfaction and financial success in different ways.
To some of us a sense of power is important, but others will be happier if they don't have the responsibility of worrying about the outcomes of employees.


----------



## tech/a (22 March 2011)

> I like that we all derive satisfaction and financial success in different ways.
> To some of us a sense of power is important, but others will be happier if they don't have the responsibility of worrying about the outcomes of employees.





Your right Julia.
I see it in my own work place.
My office manager lives for the place--Even has his answering service with his name and work place (RWI) mentioned!

I have a couple of guys in the field who love their job and been with me for years but when advancement to supervisory roles become available decline--they can do it but dont want the responsibility even though there is a pay jump.

Your right we are not all wired the same.

But this is the thread topic--hence my zealous/passionate reply.

*What are your tips for acquiring wealth and riches?*


----------



## romeo (22 March 2011)

After reading through this whole thread (not word for word) over the past couple of days there has been a lot of different replies that have stuck with me.

I suppose I am in the young category at 26. Still just over a year into my post university "real" job. I earn ok money when compared to my peers. I'm glad I've made some mistakes so far, gambled a lot in the stock market and lost because I didn't know anything. I still don't know anything so I'm looking to educate myself with books and i'm doing my own paper trading research to try and fine tune my trading technique, maybe i'll do some courses later on. I spent too much money on cars and will never do that again; I made that mistake twice actually.  

We can all sit here and debate what wealth and riches actually means. We all have our vices when it comes to spending/luxury. Some people need a coffee everyday and that's fine. 

I guess for me it's about control and value. We all have definitions on value. One of my ex girlfriends had a slight shopping addiction, she'd buy stuff on sale then never wear it. To me this is of no value, if I spend 1 dollar on something that I never use then that's 1 dollar too much. It was the action of the shopping that made her 'happy' so I guess that's ok (she never spent more than she earnt? It depends. 

Unfortunately I'm not so sure if i'm in that 5% tech talks about, so right now working for the man and saving is the only thing I can do. I'm pretty good at saving actually; but as you guys say simply saving (at my wage) will not get you wealthy or rich (in the monetary definition), but we all need some sort of starting capital don't we? The change in mindset will be difficult for me; but I have an open mind and will seek out education for the sake of learning; rather than for the piece of paper, which I believe my Aerospace/ Mechanical engineering degree was.


----------



## KurwaJegoMac (22 March 2011)

romeo said:


> Unfortunately I'm not so sure if i'm in that 5% tech talks about, so right now working for the man and saving is the only thing I can do.




You'd be surprised what one can achieve when they're stretched. I guarantee that if your food supply stopped today you'd go over and above what you though you were capable of.

It's all a gradual transition - some people are gifted in that they can make up their mind straight away and plough ahead into the unknown. Others need some coaxing.

You can use yourself as an example - I doubt that in year 7-10 you thought you would be able to do the sort of maths that you did as part of your engineering degree. I doubt that in 1st year Eng you thought you were capable of some of the complex calculations you did in 4th year. But one experience builds upon another. 

Whether one wants to go into business for themselves or not doesn't matter in my perspective - it's whether you stand still, don't educate yourself and do nothing that matters. This will stop you from ever being successful or wealthy in any endeavour you choose.

By taking steps today such as saving a bit more, investing a bit more, learning a bit more, it will all start to compound until you're at a place 20 years from now that you never thought possible.


----------



## Julia (22 March 2011)

tech/a said:


> Your right Julia.
> I see it in my own work place.
> 
> *What are your tips for acquiring wealth and riches?*



 I'm not sure if this question is directed at me, or just a reminder to all of the thread's purpose?

For me, I'd say having clear objectives is fundamental, then devising a plan to meet those objectives.

In the process, understanding how you need to educate yourself so that (1) you actually are capable of achieving what you want, and (2) you are not naive enough to be fleeced by all those who are forever going to want to take your money.

Then, understand the importance of timing.  e.g. if inflation is high and therefore property prices are rising, put more emphasis on acquiring more property.  
Buy investment property in an area you have carefully researched to ensure you're more likely to always have a good choice of decent tenants who will pay the rent you ask.

Use leverage sensibly.  Don't ever be persuaded that excessive risk is OK.

When you have reached your goals, keep your money working for you in whichever area it's invested, and above all *protect your capital.*

Enjoy what you have achieved and know when you have enough.
The making of more and more money can become an obsession.


----------



## romeo (22 March 2011)

Thanks for the encouraging words Kurwa

Maybe I should have added some key words like:
"Unfortunately I'm not so sure if I'm in that 5% tech talks about *right now*..." 

That's not to say I won't get there... My mother has that entrepreneurial guile so I always look to her for guidance. She came here with 8 kids and not a lot and now she's got her own successful accounting practice; but then again she could have done things a bit more aggressively and gotten a lot richer (in terms of money). However I don't think that was her aim. 

I agree with you and your analysis; I am, hopefully, taking steps in the right direction. 

Julia, your posts throughout have been great. A clear objective is definitely a must. Right now for me that's saving enough for a deposit on my first property. Probably another year away.


----------



## Dowdy (22 March 2011)

Julia said:


> It's not for me to interpret what Dowdy has said, but I took from his comments that 'saving' was simply the opposite to frivolously spending everything that comes in, something that plenty of people do.





Exactly what I was trying to say!

The trick to saving is to be patient. 




romeo said:


> I suppose I am in the young category at 26. Still just over a year into my post university "real" job. I earn ok money when compared to my peers. I'm glad I've made some mistakes so far, gambled a lot in the stock market and lost because I didn't know anything. I still don't know anything so I'm looking to educate myself with books and i'm doing my own paper trading research to try and fine tune my trading technique, maybe i'll do some courses later on. I spent too much money on cars and will never do that again; I made that mistake twice actually.
> 
> We can all sit here and debate what wealth and riches actually means. We all have our vices when it comes to spending/luxury. Some people need a coffee everyday and that's fine.
> 
> ...




At least you didn't get an arts degree...

And don't worry, 26 is still young, I'm only 25.


----------

