# $4000 for a two day seminar on options - should I attend?



## fatchik (26 May 2005)

I am new to this, but have an opportunity to attend a 2 day seminar with the promise of becoming an options trader earning a living by the end.  It costs around 4k.  Should I go?  It is a lot of money .....
Thank you for your advice.
fatchik


----------



## Porper (26 May 2005)

fatchik said:
			
		

> I am new to this, but have an opportunity to attend a 2 day seminar with the promise of becoming an options trader earning a living by the end.  It costs around 4k.  Should I go?  It is a lot of money .....
> Thank you for your advice.
> fatchik




Fatchik,

I am pretty new to trading/investing but even I know that you cannot become an options trader in 2 days.I would say read a few books first, see if it is for you, then if you still like the idea go for it.From what I gather options are complicated to master, if they say you can do it in 2 days, well what do you think ? :eek3:


----------



## WaySolid (26 May 2005)

Is the cost of the sandwiches included in that price?

Dust off your library card and do some reading first.


----------



## fatchik (26 May 2005)

Thank you    
It is great to read sober responses - the 'free seminar' was very compelling ......  What books would you recommend?  Some resources seem very intimidating, and also hard to read.  I want to learn about investing in the stockmarket, since the property market seems to have flattened out.  
fatchik


----------



## ob1kenobi (26 May 2005)

fatchik said:
			
		

> Thank you
> It is great to read sober responses - the 'free seminar' was very compelling ...... What books would you recommend? Some resources seem very intimidating, and also hard to read. I want to learn about investing in the stockmarket, since the property market seems to have flattened out.
> fatchik




Welcome to the world of trading! Regarding your question: you generally will pick up ideas from these forums but we don't give advice. Having said that, there is a saying "if it's too good to be true, it probably is!" Options trading is a complex area by its nature. It generally requires you to have a significant amount of time to follow the market and seize the day when the market rises or falls by executing the options you have taken. There are plenty of threads on this site about options trading, search for them and have a read. Many of them are from people who actively trade options. What's more, it's free to read! If you are wanting some good basic material on options trading, get the information from the horses mouth! Go to the ASX and for $50.00 order their book "Getting Started in Options". It is a reference book complete with worksheet and an instructional CD. About 3 hours all up, it is the same as the course that the ASX runs in options trading. Do the Maths, the remaining $3950.00 could be invested in the market! Personally, master share trading first. It is a highly intricate art, requiring a good working knowledge of a range of issues and matters but more importantly requiring you to have an effective trading system in place, one that is right for you. At the end of the day, the 3 R's work for me: Read, Research the stock, Request a buy or sell if everything checks out. Good luck!


----------



## RichKid (26 May 2005)

See the Derivatives forum here on ASF for lots of info (and some opinions on expensive options courses). Good luck!


----------



## DTM (26 May 2005)

fatchik said:
			
		

> I am new to this, but have an opportunity to attend a 2 day seminar with the promise of becoming an options trader earning a living by the end.  It costs around 4k.  Should I go?  It is a lot of money .....
> Thank you for your advice.
> fatchik




In my opinion, any 2 day seminar for 4k is a ripoff.

The only way to trade options profitably when starting off is being able to understand and time the underlying.

Examples 

If you think the price is going up, buy calls, if going down, buy puts.

For spreads; 

Use credit call spreads if you believe that its peaked, credit put spreads if its bottomed.

buy puts, sell calls in an uptrending pullback, and vice versa in a down trending pullback.

That is the basics of options trading.  All you have left to do now is learn about technical analysis (Lots of good threads here posted by Tech/A) to get an understanding of share movements.  Next thing and probably most important, read the thread by WayneL (and go to his website) and Positive Cashflow to understand the dynamics of the pricing of options so that you know what to look out for.  What's been written won't be taught to you in a 2 day course and probably more than you need to know.

There, just saved you 4k.  

And if you want more advanced tutoring or someone to hold your hand and are willing to pay for it, contact Money Tree.


----------



## mime (26 May 2005)

I think you can take a tech cause for maybe $500 or so.

Experience is probably your best education though.


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (27 May 2005)

fatchik said:
			
		

> I am new to this, but have an opportunity to attend a 2 day seminar with the promise of becoming an options trader earning a living by the end.  It costs around 4k.  Should I go?  It is a lot of money .....
> Thank you for your advice.
> fatchik




Invest the $4000!

Master stocks first. Options are dangerous if you don't know what you are doing. 

Read many books first on trading and investing stocks, and then look at options a few years later.

No course is worth $4000, unless you come out of it with a degree.

Hope this helps.


----------



## wayneL (27 May 2005)

Think of all the people in OZ who have done options courses. *Then think how many of those are earning a living trading options.* Also, bearing in mind the numbers who have done courses, look at the liquidity of Oz options which is very poor.

Therein lies your answer.

A two day course will reach you enough to be dangerous and thats it.

As someone said above, the library is free. Then thare are the random and largely incoherent D) ramblings of us here on this site.

Expect to be learning a loooong time unles you have an iq of 180 or somethin'

Cheers


----------



## tech/a (27 May 2005)

Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> No course is worth $4000, unless you come out of it with a degree.




What would *MAKE* a course worth $4000 or even $10000??

Other than a degree.Whats a degree anyway other than a Universities recognition that you understand a topic.A Masters degree means you really understand it well.A Doctorate means you excel in your chosen specialty in the Degree they acknowledge you know really well!!

Anyone----This is a serious question because I think there are points that would make it worth even $10K---Not necesserily options either.


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (27 May 2005)

> Anyone----This is a serious question because I think there are points that would make it worth even $10K---Not necesserily options either.




Tech/A,

Are you saying that it might be worth $10,000? And, other courses regarding stocks or warrants etc. would be worth up to $10,000?  

University recognition may be worth the money, even if it doesn't give you the real world experience, but spending thousands on courses run by some entrepreneur who happens to know about, lets say, options is in my opinion a big waste of money. A sixty dollar book written by an expert is a better investment, because it won't have any hype in it motivating the unsuspecting reader.....


----------



## tech/a (27 May 2005)

*Tina*

No Im asking a hypothetical question.


IE would there be anything that a course could offer (regardless what the course is about) that would be veiwed by a prospective participant as sound value?---in the higher brackets of $5-20K (Lets say).

Just as an example.
Some may veiw $20,000 for a day with George Soros reveiling his trading secrets as something they would mortgage their house for.
Or a Day with Warren Buffet!

*Just interested in what people here would constitute Great value in the higher end of ----courses.If anything at all.*
Your right about this options course----its no different to many offered so where is the $4000 value?

What needs to be tangible?

If I could give you (Or anyone) a method/s that I guarenteed 100% return on your investment over a year provided you traded X$(Say $70K) in the market over that year----so if it was $10k youd make $10 back in that year or Id give you your money back---the 10K originally paid.

Would that be sound value?

Anyone have any conditions that would constitute a consideration of a higher priced course?


----------



## TjamesX (27 May 2005)

tech/a said:
			
		

> Just as an example.
> Some may veiw $20,000 for a day with George Soros reveiling his trading secrets as something they would mortgage their house for.
> Or a Day with Warren Buffet!
> 
> ...




Even paying $20,000 for a day with WBuffet would be infinitly more valuable if you had spent $20 on a book about his methods like _ The Warren Buffet Way _ and read it before hand. He would have to spend all his time going through the basics of his methods if you went in there 'blind' and knew nothing about him.... The value in spending time with him would only be gained if you really knew all available information about him and his methods before going and could ask probing/insightful questions.

This is the problem I have with most of these types of seminars - most people are going into them 'blind' as beginners thinking they will get the secret. The secret is most of the time is there is no secret - its just hard work! Get all of the publicly avialable free info thats available, then spend some money on some cheap info (books), then do more research - then your in a position to judge whether a seminar will be good value or not.

At the peak of the property boom people spent 15k to go to a Henry Kaye seminar (4 days I think). A lot of these people were 'blind' and looking for the fast track and H.Kaye knew it!. Thats why he onsold crap deals through his development company to the same people that paid for his advice. Deals that with even the smallest bit of research into property investing would have put up a red flag!

fear and greed.... and ingnorance

TJ


----------



## Investor (27 May 2005)

TjamesX said:
			
		

> ... At the peak of the property boom people spent 15K to go to a Henry Kaye seminar (4 days I think). A lot of these people were 'blind' and looking for the fast track and H.Kaye knew it!. That's why he onsold crap deals through his development company to the same people that paid for his advice. Deals that with even the smallest bit of research into property investing would have put up a red flag!
> 
> fear and greed.... and ignorance
> 
> TJ




Yes. A few thousand "lemming like" people who were late comers to the "party" are paying the price through financial collapse or soon will, for following such a recipe made for disaster. The early entrants like tech/a are sitting cosy.

I was amazed how gullible some people were. I might post an article from the Financial Review that indicated an extreme example of a couple in their 30's who resigned from their IT jobs paying $250K and are now "broke" by being Henry Kaye "graduates".

The pied pipers of the property boom have gone to cover (the boom is over). As their replacements, the pied pipers of the stock market and options trading have been out in full force. Some of their graduates will end up broke.

If life was meant to be that easy ..... would there be any workers left in this world??????

I did my investment learning the hard way .... years of tertiary education and on the job training in the banking industry, before my toes even touched the water. Yet, Warren Buffett still teaches me new insights through his writings and I have never needed to meet him. 

Someday, I might buy Berkshire shares, to attend Buffett's annual general meeting, to pay homage to The Master of the Investment World - a modern day genius and his co-director Bill Gates - another modern day genius.

As for all the pretenders out there spinning their "snake oil", I would not pay a single dollar to attend. Never have - never will.

Only my opinion and no one has to agree or disagree.


----------



## fatchik (27 May 2005)

I am so glad I asked ......  There were temptations before that I managed to resist (like the free trip from Melbourne to Brisbane to benefit from the Queensland property boom), this time I came VERY close.  

Thank you to all of you for your advice, and saving me not only the money, but no doubt the humiliation of becoming a sucker.  I will be in good company while learning, and starting with small, simple things.

fatchik


----------



## money tree (27 May 2005)

A Diploma of Financial Markets costs $4k and will take a few years. 

Which would you prefer, 2 years or 2 days of education?

Oh, and the Diploma is taught by people who are highly qualified, not some halfwit shonk with 10 trades under his belt (probably all losing ones).


----------



## tech/a (27 May 2005)

Investor said:
			
		

> Yes. A few thousand "lemming like" people who were late comers to the "party" are paying the price through financial collapse or soon will, for following such a recipe made for disaster. The early entrants like tech/a are sitting cosy.




Sometimes a bit of luck comes along.
Back when I started buying I had realised that opportunities had passed by-------REASONS FOR PROPERTIES TO INCREASE IN $$$s
(1) The Crafers Freeway had been built we were involved and i hadent anticipated the increase in housing demand due to it!
(2) The Holdfast Shores Developement (Marina) sent prices in a 20 square km radius flying.

Then when I recieved plans for the Southern expressway on my desk I saw Crafers all over again.Off we went and started buying---friends thought we were nuts(Which is true) particularly as we bought initially 5. 80% geared.

What we didnt anticipate was the property BOOM which coincided with our purchases.

My point is 
FIND OUT WHY a rise is likely (In property,coins,art,books,etc) just like a fundamental eveluation of a trading prospect.You never know something un expected may just boost it along.

No seminars just common sence---well I thought it was.


----------



## tech/a (27 May 2005)

money tree said:
			
		

> Oh, and the Diploma is taught by people who are highly qualified, not some halfwit shonk with 10 trades under his belt (probably all losing ones).




Yeh well Ive seen people who teach for the Securities Institute who may well have qualifications but fail miserably in their own investments.Not limited to this area.

I'd rather learn from someone who has a proven performance in an area than someone who has a qualification and no proven track record.


----------



## mime (27 May 2005)

What kind of information could you get in 2 days that's worth $4k?

Is it for beginners? If so don't bother because he'll probably talk about charting, PE ect. I wouldn't even pay $4k for a 2 day cause with Warrent Buffet let alone this other guy.

Borrow a book from the libariary(sp?) called something like "Investment physiology" it's the best book you will ever read.


----------



## ob1kenobi (28 May 2005)

fatchik said:
			
		

> I am so glad I asked ...... There were temptations before that I managed to resist (like the free trip from Melbourne to Brisbane to benefit from the Queensland property boom), this time I came VERY close.
> 
> Thank you to all of you for your advice, and saving me not only the money, but no doubt the humiliation of becoming a sucker. I will be in good company while learning, and starting with small, simple things.
> 
> fatchik




I guess the message here is simple. Be prepared to put in the hours of research, do some reading, plug into the collective experiences of others via sites like this and most importantly be patient. Always be in control of your investments, rather than allowing the investments to take control of your life. Take small steps before you try to take huge leaps. Good luck!


----------

