# Kevin Rudd



## somesortoftrader (25 May 2007)

Should Rudd's wife have to sell her company?  

I think it is quite unfair that, in order to be a politician ( ~ PM) the community would expect everyone around you (family, friends...) has to be not only super clean, but without self determination.  

If the labor party lean on Rudd and therefore his wife to sell her company, I think that would be a sad day. It would certainly prove that Rudd has no spine when standing up for what he believes in. The only variable is, and if it is true - the majority of the work conducted by Therese Rein's company is to the Governamnt. 

The real question here is.... if the Rudd's are truly Labor heart & soul - why does Therese Rein use agreements and not the Award system?

http://canberra.yourguide.com.au/de...lass=general&story_id=588659&category=General

This is not intended as a political post, but for the record I'm not a Rudd fan .


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## Kimosabi (25 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*



somesortoftrader said:


> Should Rudd's wife have to sell her company?
> 
> I think it is quite unfair that, in order to be a politician ( ~ PM) the community would expect everyone around you (family, friends...) has to be not only super clean, but without self determination.
> 
> ...




I think it's good she runs a business, if Rudd has any questions about business, he can ask his missus.

Considering she's a business owner, I wouldn't be surprised if she votes Liberal as well...


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## insider (25 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*

Well I'm sure John Howards brother is loving the IR laws as rumor has it that he owns a factory of a sort... Why should Rudd's wife sell up?


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## The Mint Man (25 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*

I dont thnk she should sell it but I can see where there is a conflict of interest if he is to become PM, she gets money from the government for finding people jobs. It would be seen as Rudd paying his missus, in effect paying himself. A good little side earner. 
The fact that she uses contracts also speaks volumes, if its good enough for her then whats Rudds/Labors problem?

Cheers


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## tech/a (25 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*

Just shows to me the transapency in political policy.

Tell the people what they want to hear.
As a business owner myself currently re doing all WPA's and going through the "fair" agreement ajudication,there isnt a single employee worse off here.

Mind you I want to keep all mine!


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## ideaforlife (25 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*

The point is that Rudd's wife's business directly benefits from deeds with federal government. It's pretty common sense if Rudd wants to be clean of a People PM, he has to come off clean of any "conflict of interest". 

To be honest, I have more trust in Howard than Rudd. Time will prove I'm right on this.


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## Lucky (25 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*



The Mint Man said:


> I dont thnk she should sell it but I can see where there is a conflict of interest if he is to become PM, she gets money from the government for finding people jobs. It would be seen as Rudd paying his missus, in effect paying himself. A good little side earner.
> The fact that she uses contracts also speaks volumes, if its good enough for her then whats Rudds/Labors problem?
> 
> Cheers




Maybe Ingeus is the Australian version of the Carlyle Group in the making?


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## Mousie (25 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*

Having a business is a very personal thing. Good on her for having the cajones of owning one. If you think that's gonna affect Rudd's decision-making then don't vote for him. But I find telling someone she should sell her interest in the business because of something the relative is (about to be) doing to be very unfair. 

The tall poppy syndrome is rearing its ugly head again - if you wanna stop someone from being in a position where potential conflicts of interest exist (or set conditions for that someone) then try getting there yourself in the 1st place. And if and when you finally get there we'll see how you think about conflict-of-interest issues being thrown in your face.


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## Mousie (25 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*

And BTW, I'm not rooting for any party (yet).


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## megla (25 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*

my curiousity is who dug deep enough to find this out, and why aren't they doing the libs too!?

if we go looking for anti-hypocritical politicians, I want to put my money on them, cause they will be *RARE AS*

and memories are short, remember the libs with their code of ethics for ministers that they keep breaching  lol


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## Smurf1976 (25 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*

What someone's family members do is their own business IMO.

If you work for, say, Coles then there's nothing to say that your wife can't work for another retailer.

If you're a real estate agent then there's nothing to say that your wife can't work for a rival agent.

I know a community radio station manager whose wife works on-air for a rival station. The only restriction is that his wife can not volunteer on-air at the community station run by her husband (though she can (and does) do work for them off-air).

So what's wrong with a politician's wife running a business? It's nothing to do with anyone but her, the employees and customers. 

I'm truly fed up with all this dirty politics. Stick to the real issues - an individual small business isn't one of them.


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## YELNATS (25 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*



somesortoftrader said:


> Should Rudd's wife have to sell her company?




I shouldn't think so. It's her business not his. He has no equity or commercial interest in that business as far as I have been made aware.

If we can't trust a politician to keep his/her decison-making at an arms length from the commercial dealings of a family member, then that person should not be elected to parliament, let alone be represented as a prospective prime minister.

If there is a question of a conflict of interest, at this stage at least, it is only that, a perceived, rather than an actual conflict of interest. No actual conflict of interset has been proven or even alleged. I can't see that one should have to divest assets based purely on perceptions or possibilities.

If this were not to be the case, where should the line on the acceptable holding of assets be drawn, at spouses, siblings, parents, children, cousins, etc. etc.?  Regards YN.


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## The Mint Man (25 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*



Smurf1976 said:


> What someone's family members do is their own business IMO.
> 
> If you work for, say, Coles then there's nothing to say that your wife can't work for another retailer.
> 
> ...



Smurf,
I dont think anyone is complaining about his missus owning a business, not me anyway. Its the type of business she owns. I think people are wondering 'what happens if rudd becomes PM' because that would mean his government is paying his wife.
I have also heared alot of peoples coments about how Labor/Rudd is ment to be on the 'battlers' side yet his missus is filthy rich and owns companys which use contracts to employ people.


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## Nifty (25 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*

If Rudd behaves like Howard,he will commit to his wife selling her business,then if he becomes P.M. will renege,saying that it wasn't a core promise.


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## Smurf1976 (25 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*



The Mint Man said:


> Smurf,
> I dont think anyone is complaining about his missus owning a business, not me anyway. Its the type of business she owns. I think people are wondering 'what happens if rudd becomes PM' because that would mean his government is paying his wife.



But surely it is still her right to run a business and seek government work no matter what her husband does for a job?

Or does the government (under either Howard or Rudd) not have proper processes in place to remove any conflict of interest. Surely the PM can't personally award a contract to a specific company? It's possible but I certainly hope not. 

IMO it would be cheaper for the government to just do the job itself but that doesn't seem to suit current political thinking. The contracts for various things I've seen are 3 to 5 times higher than the cost of doing the work in-house. That is the real issue IMO - wasting my taxes on ridiculously expensive outsourcing when it was cheaper to just keep paying the public servants to do the work even if they are a tad inefficient at times.


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## hongwong (25 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*

none of our bussiness.   What he going to do for australia because I dont think his wife going to recruit the whole of the australia.


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## brutus (25 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*

What is lost in the discussion of Rudds Wifes business is the style of business where  outsourcing of employment whether Govt or private sector had one big motivational force. If you dont employ directly you dont have to sack staff when change is needed. Mind you if Rudd gets to power his wifes business should boom. Go Mrs Rudd!!!
Brutus


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## Julia (25 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*



The Mint Man said:


> Smurf,
> I dont think anyone is complaining about his missus owning a business, not me anyway. Its the type of business she owns. I think people are wondering 'what happens if rudd becomes PM' because that would mean his government is paying his wife.
> I have also heared alot of peoples coments about how Labor/Rudd is ment to be on the 'battlers' side yet his missus is filthy rich and owns companys which use contracts to employ people.




Exactly right.  Both these points differentiate Ms Rein's business from the supermarket or travel agency .

It's the same principle as that which declares MP's are very silly to own any shares which could benefit from decisions they may make.

Tough on her, but I can't see any alternative to her divesting herself of the business.  However, probably some clever lawyer will find a way to make it appear to be gone whilst allowing her to retain some interest, however many times removed.


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## chicken (25 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*

If Rudds wife had a business which did not involve Goverment work I would say for her to keep it...but as it involves Goverment work....then its CONFLICT OF INTREST and that would cause a problem for Mr Rudd....I am afraid its one or the other...so, Mr Rudd may either give up to be elected or his wife has to dispose of her intrest as its simple a CONFLICT OF INTREST...and there is no other way as it will bite Mr Rudd sooner or later


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## rederob (26 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*



chicken said:


> If Rudd's wife had a business which did not involve Goverment work I would say for her to keep it...but as it involves Goverment work....then its CONFLICT OF INTREST and that would cause a problem for Mr Rudd....I am afraid its one or the other...so, Mr Rudd may either give up to be elected or his wife has to dispose of her intrest as its simple a CONFLICT OF INTREST...and there is no other way as it will bite Mr Rudd sooner or later



What a narrow minded bunch there are, indicative of this post.
There is absolutely no conflict of interest in Rein's case as neither she nor her husband can have any input into the process that determines winning tenders for government work.
There is a perception of conflict of interest because most people don't have a clue what a true conflict of interest involves.
While a cynical few might see Rein receiving favours should Rudd become PM, the reality is very much the opposite.
Tender selection committees seeing Rein's name on a service proposal will scrutinise it more thoroughly than any other, knowing full well that unsuccessful bidders will be jumping at every opportunity to rip into her on grounds of favouritism.
Unfortunately for Rein, the clever thing to now do to assist her company is remove herself from it so as not to attract the forensic scrutiny that has already began to occur.
Either way, it's a lose - lose situation.
More of a loss to the growing number of women that have worked relentlessly over tens of years to build a business, only to have to give it away because men still wear the pants: What a shame.


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## Smurf1976 (26 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*

I see the political aspect absolutely. It's not a wise move to keep the business. Actually it's outright stupid.

But I've seen nothing anywhere to convince me that there is an actual conflict of interest. Would Rudd be PERSONALLY handing work to this company? Possible but I strongly doubt it. 

Surely there would be a transparent tender process run by persons other than the PM himself that is subject to audit? If not then there damn well should be for this and every other significant spending of my taxes - a process that should automatically include the "in house" option in addition to all tenders received.


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## Prospector (26 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*

Well, I dont actually put much trust in the 'transparency' of the tender process to be honest.  I have seen tenders worded specifically so that only a preferred provider can meet the specifications.  Not necessarily Federal ones, but who knows?

But where can you draw the line?  Brothers?  Sons?   Nieces?

Actually, what really suprises me is that the Unions and their comrades and working class people have as their head, a man who is clearly married to a multi millionaire! 

Anyone betting on a change in leader if Labor gets in


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## Mofra (26 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*



Prospector said:


> Anyone betting on a change in leader if Labor gets in



Wouldn't think so straight away, but Gillard is clearly a Union stooge/puppet who has constructed an alternate IR policy that advocates compulsory unionism by stealth (re: negotion fees charged to non-unionised employees), so in many respects the union bosses will have what they want anyway.


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## Prospector (26 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*



Mofra said:


> Wouldn't think so straight away, but Gillard is clearly a Union stooge/puppet who has constructed an alternate IR policy that advocates compulsory unionism by stealth (re: negotion fees charged to non-unionised employees), so in many respects the union bosses will have what they want anyway.




Ah, but what do they want?  Obvious power methinks and I dont think Rudd will give them enough Kudos.


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## somesortoftrader (26 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200705/s1934014.htm


"If I haven't done that or if I've caused discomfort to anybody, including Kevin, I'm really sorry."

Gosh... do you think they even talk?


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## Mofra (26 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*



Prospector said:


> Ah, but what do they want?  Obvious power methinks and I dont think Rudd will give them enough Kudos.




Labour still obtain much of their funding from unions and the estimates of the increase in union fees due to the Labour IR policy is staggering, so in many respects the unions can have as much power as they need within the Labour framework - with Rudd appearing to be largely factionless (although slightly aligned to the right faction). 

It appears the unions will be able to wield a significantly greater power over their employers than before the Howard era, even if any significant policital power is subdued in the short term. Union militancy is back on the agenda.


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## Prospector (26 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*

Mofra it really surprises me that the Govt is not using the fear of militant unionism in their campaigns to claw back some votes.  There would be so many people out there who are thinking of voting for Rudd, but the thought of rampant Unionism would send them running back to Howard.

Maybe they will us it later, but it might be too late by then!


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## Nifty (26 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*



rederob said:


> What a narrow minded bunch there are, indicative of this post.
> There is absolutely no conflict of interest in Rein's case as neither she nor her husband can have any input into the process that determines winning tenders for government work.
> I agree with redrob entirely,but we are dealing with politics here,and that necessitates the encompasing of strange idiosynchrosies,such as lowest common denominator catch-all,the swinginging voters who want to end the Liberal dynasty,but are feeling guilty and will jump at the chance to justify voting against Rudd;Those people who simply "Just want a change"
> Anyway,Let the dogs bark,the caravan moves on.


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## Archie (26 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*

I find it a bit strange that the govt is not really sticking it to the Labour party over this issue. It all seems a bit soft at the moment.
Is it because they are scared that someone might find that someone in the Libs has a wife or husband that runs a business that may be seen to have a conflict of interest also.
The memory of the Rudd / Brian Bourke fiasco may be fresh in their minds.
Personally I dont think the public could care less as we can all see thru the lies & deceptions of politics in normal times let alone during an election year.


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## greggy (26 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*



Mofra said:


> Wouldn't think so straight away, but Gillard is clearly a Union stooge/puppet who has constructed an alternate IR policy that advocates compulsory unionism by stealth (re: negotion fees charged to non-unionised employees), so in many respects the union bosses will have what they want anyway.



I used to like Ms Gillard, but have been put off by her recent behaviour.  She represents Labor's past especially in the way in which she told business to basically keep out of the IR debate.  Irrespective of one's views on IR, surely the business community has the same democratic right as anyone else to air their views and contribute to debate.  I never hear Ms Gillard telling the unions to keep quiet.  
As for the debate in relation to Rudd's wife, I have 2 points to make.
1.  She is a smart businesswoman who is providing employment to many Australians who might otherwise be unemployed. 
2.  IMO its all a matter of perception.  If Mr Rudd is PM whilst his wife remains in business and any new contracts are awarded to her, many people are going to think, rightly or wrongly, that she only got them because of her husband's position.  The Coalition is looking for weak spots as they are well behind in the polls and Rudd's wife may well be an easier target than her husband.  
Hence, I think that its best for her to sell the company.  I'm sure with all the hard work she's put into it that she will make many millions from it.


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## Prospector (26 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*



Nifty said:


> There is absolutely no conflict of interest in Rein's case as neither she nor her husband can have any input into the process that determines winning tenders for government work.




You are very trusting about the way in which tenders can be written.


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## rederob (26 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*



Prospector said:


> You are very trusting about the way in which tenders can be written.




Prospector
Copies of Job Network tenders are publicly available.
If you find anything that looks a bit dodgy or skewed you are better than the legal teams that scrutinise these tenders and ensure probity is achieved.
That aside, Rudd wants to be PM.  He cannot afford distractions leading into the election and Rein could become one BIG distraction, irrespective of the merits of her business and its operations.  In fact, leading up to all elections the parties go to considerable lengths to address potential liabilities.  Where they cannot be eliminated the parties prepare defensive positions that we call "spin" on a situation.
As we near the election I expect the polls will see the Coalition much closer to Labor.  However, overall I think the Whitlam theme of "it's time" is already playing out, and the question will be by how many seats Labor hold a majority.
And then it will remain to be seen if they can rebalance the Senate: Which I doubt unless there  is a landslide to Labor.


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## greggy (26 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*



rederob said:


> Prospector
> Copies of Job Network tenders are publicly available.
> If you find anything that looks a bit dodgy or skewed you are better than the legal teams that scrutinise these tenders and ensure probity is achieved.
> That aside, Rudd wants to be PM.  He cannot afford distractions leading into the election and Rein could become one BIG distraction, irrespective of the merits of her business and its operations.  In fact, leading up to all elections the parties go to considerable lengths to address potential liabilities.  Where they cannot be eliminated the parties prepare defensive positions that we call "spin" on a situation.
> ...



I reckon that many of those swinging to Labor, may well vote for the minor parties in the Senate just as an act of protection.  IMO Mr Rudd is a safer pair of hands than Whitlam was.  Whitlam had a number of good ideas, but he spent far too much money too quickly. I also didn't like his lack of support for the East Timorese let alone the Indonesian invasion.  The East Timorese helped us out in a big way during World War 2 and look how we repaid during the mid 70s.


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## Rafa (28 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*

it looks like the decision has been made...

Interesting article by Glen Milne in the The Australian
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21803289-601,00.html


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## Mumbank (28 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*

I can see why she probably should sell, but I think its a damn shame.

It would be good to have a PM who had a wife who was a businesswoman as well as a wife/mother and thus had some idea of the state of nation as well as the cost of living and the effects of the economy on families, rather than a "stand behind her man smiling face" that doesn't.

On the other hand, if Therese is in receipt of contracts from this current Government who no doubt know she is the wife of the Leader of the Opposition, then those contracts must be pretty fair as the current Government would not want to be giving any favours for anyone to do with to the Opposition. 

While it would no doubt be perceived as a conflict of interest if Rudd became PM it shouldn't as the contracts were already in place as awarded by the Liberal Government.  

Anyway I think she and her company are doing a wonderful job that none of the other Govt or semi Govt agencies have been able to do and that is getting long term unemployed people back to the workforce, thus providing huge savings from Welfare Budget.

I hope whoever buys it, keeps up the good work.


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## Julia (28 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*

Thanks for that, Rafa.  It's an excellent summary.

The initial embarrassment about her underpaid employees appears now completely forgotten in a wash of sympathy and admiration for her "courageous decision".

This whole episode can only help Kevin Rudd.  Many swinging voters will (perhaps subconsciously) feel that because his wife has made such a sacrifice for his political ambitions, they are somewhat obliged to give Rudd their vote as vindication of said sacrifice.


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## greggy (28 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*



Julia said:


> Thanks for that, Rafa.  It's an excellent summary.
> 
> The initial embarrassment about her underpaid employees appears now completely forgotten in a wash of sympathy and admiration for her "courageous decision".
> 
> This whole episode can only help Kevin Rudd.  Many swinging voters will (perhaps subconsciously) feel that because his wife has made such a sacrifice for his political ambitions, they are somewhat obliged to give Rudd their vote as vindication of said sacrifice.



Hi Julia,

This is one swinging voter who is not fooled by his wife's "sacrifice."  She only made this "sacrifice" after receiving bad publicity.  If she was really genuine about it, she may well have come out earlier with this decision. 
One of my friends was sacked by her company the day before Easter.  Whilst they were very happy with his work they told him that he was no longer required.  Prior to his sacking, he like many others was expected to work unpaid overtime every night. Its one thing for Mr Rudd to complain about employees conditions, but its certainly another when his wife's company has been exploiting the new IR laws for her own benefit as she controls around 97% of it.


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## Aedo (28 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*



greggy said:


> Hi Julia,
> ...snip...
> One of my friends was sacked by her company the day before Easter.  Whilst they were very happy with his work they told him that he was no longer required.  Prior to his sacking, he like many others was expected to work unpaid overtime every night. Its one thing for Mr Rudd to complain about employees conditions, but its certainly another when his wife's company has been exploiting the new IR laws for her own benefit as she controls around 97% of it.




I think this is really the key issue - the conflict of interest regarding govt tenders isn't much chop; but if Rudd can't even convince his wife on employment strategy what hope has he of convincing the rest of the community?


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## Sprinter79 (28 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*

If you can get away with it under the law, go for it (I have issues with that attitude, but that's what is happening). It may not be ethical or moralistic, but it's legal.

Back on topic... whether the conflict of interest is real or perceived, it doesn't matter. What matters is that there MAY be an issue, and it's potential ammo for the govt. 

Now that the decision has been made, it puts the ball in the govt's court, and can be seen as Labor taking the high ground with conflicts of interest. 

In a further move, an attempt to cut-off potential govt mud slinging IMO, Rudd has forbidden his potential ministers from contact with his brother, a known lobbiest. Further taking the high ground on potential conflicts of interest.


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## chicken (29 May 2007)

*Re: Rudd's wifes company - Should it be sold?*



Sprinter79 said:


> If you can get away with it under the law, go for it (I have issues with that attitude, but that's what is happening). It may not be ethical or moralistic, but it's legal.
> 
> Back on topic... whether the conflict of interest is real or perceived, it doesn't matter. What matters is that there MAY be an issue, and it's potential ammo for the govt.
> 
> ...




After listing to Mr Rudd and his deputy woman...after all Mr Rudd is a mulltimillionaire...NOT A BATTLER, as first was thought ,I come to the conclusion to stick with the old guard ,Mr Howard....as a change in these times is not a good idae....did not like the arrogance shown by Mr Rudds deputy as the workers of Australia will NOT be better off but could even be crunched more....as, all politicians have a bad side...at least we know Mr Howards ,who I must say has impressed me...after all he even did something about that tough emigration minister vanderstone,and the minister of finance also delivered...should the Goverment change...we will all regret it as Australia will get back to Labours policy which will be detramental to ALL of us...there is NO FREE lunch for anyone here...just an untried team which may put us back to thegood old days ,becoming a banana republic again ...its a tough choice..


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## weird (9 September 2007)

*Who was Kevin Rudd before he was Leader of the Opposition?*

Can someone pls remind me who Kevin Rudd was before Leader of the Opposition ?


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## Sean K (9 September 2007)

*Re: Can someone pls remind me who Kevin Rudd was before Leader of the Opposition ?*



weird said:


> Can someone pls remind me who Kevin Rudd was before Leader of the Opposition ?



If you need to know anything, first place to look is wikipedia...


Kevin Rudd

Careful though, the PM's office may have tampered with the info!


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## Whiskers (9 September 2007)

*Re: Can someone pls remind me who Kevin Rudd was before Leader of the Opposition ?*



weird said:


> Can someone pls remind me who Kevin Rudd was before Leader of the Opposition ?




Haven't you heard, they all have a wiki site these days. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Rudd

"_Rudd was born in Nambour, Queensland, and grew up on a dairy farm in nearby Eumundi. He boarded at Marist College Ashgrove in Brisbane[2] and was dux of Nambour High School in 1974.[3]_"

'John Howard is a very clever politician.'  Hmmm, the pot calling the kettle black eh. :

"_Rudd later went on to study at the Australian National University in Canberra, graduating with first Class Honours in Arts (Asian Studies). He majored in Chinese language, in which he is fluent, as well as Chinese history_."

Now that could be a handy attribute. 

"_During his studies in Canberra, Rudd cleaned the house of political commentator Laurie Oakes to earn money_.[6]"

Interesting!


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## Julia (9 September 2007)

*Re: Can someone remind me who Kevin Rudd was before Leader of the Opposition?*

He pretty much ran the show when Wayne Goss was Premier of Qld.
He's a combination bureaucrat/diplomat.


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## Sean K (9 September 2007)

*Re: Can someone remind me who Kevin Rudd was before Leader of the Opposition?*



Julia said:


> He pretty much ran the show when Wayne Goss was Premier of Qld.
> He's a combination bureaucrat/diplomat.



You voting for him Julia?


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## Kathmandu (9 September 2007)

*Re: Can someone remind me who Kevin Rudd was before Leader of the Opposition?*

In his younger days, http://tintin.francetv.fr/uk/   Pic 1

When he got older he needed glasses   Pic 2


Dave


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## GreatPig (9 September 2007)

*Re: Can someone pls remind me who Kevin Rudd was before Leader of the Opposition ?*



Whiskers said:


> they all have a wiki site these days



Which they... um... keep up to date regularly shall we say. 

GP


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## Flying Fish (9 September 2007)

*Re: Can someone remind me who Kevin Rudd was before Leader of the Opposition?*

Vote one Krudd, cause he's as good as the others lol


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## Julia (9 September 2007)

*Re: Can someone remind me who Kevin Rudd was before Leader of the Opposition?*



kennas said:


> You voting for him Julia?




Well, let's say I'm closer to doing so than I was a few weeks back.
I quite like him but am less enthusiastic about the rest of his team and have a lot of concern about their overall inexperience.  Also not keen on wall to wall Labor.

What about you, Kennas?  Presumably you can vote from Peru?


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## IFocus (9 September 2007)

*Re: Can someone remind me who Kevin Rudd was before Leader of the Opposition?*



> Also not keen on wall to wall Labor.




Hi Julia

I heard this said a few times what do you see as the possible problems?

Focus


----------



## Julia (9 September 2007)

*Re: Can someone remind me who Kevin Rudd was before Leader of the Opposition?*



IFocus said:


> Hi Julia
> 
> I heard this said a few times what do you see as the possible problems?
> 
> Focus



Hello Focus

The capacity to raise the GST, e.g. it can be raised if all the States agree with the Commonwealth that this should happen.

Increased influence of the Unions.

Less catering to the requirements of business, i.e. if it came to a trade-off between the Unions and business,there would probably be some weighting towards the Union.

On the above point, too many members of the Labor candidature are ex Union officials.  I find it impossible to believe they are going to leave that philosophy behind.

On the other hand, I guess it's possible such areas as health could benefit because it won't be easy for the States to say that the Commonwealth has deprived them of funds and therefore they can't maintain hospitals etc.
One would assume they will all be on the same side?

But perhaps not.  We only have to look at the falling out between Kevin Rudd and Peter Beattie over the recent forced local government amalgamations in Qld.  Mr Rudd was not at all shy in saying he completely disagreed with Mr Beattie's actions, and he deserves full credit for this.


----------



## Whiskers (9 September 2007)

*Re: Can someone remind me who Kevin Rudd was before Leader of the Opposition?*

Hi Julia

I'm a Qlder too, up the coast a bit further. Like you I am probably leaning more to Rudd this time than Howard. 



Julia said:


> Hello Focus
> 
> The capacity to raise the GST, e.g. it can be raised if all the States agree with the Commonwealth that this should happen.
> 
> ...




While your concern about the GST is a possibility, I think Rudd  is smart enough to realise it would be political suicide for labour to increase it given the amount of the Gov surplus. 

I also see some concern re union control, but from what I understand Rudd has stated a desire for the party to be less than 50% controlled by unions. In the end I guess it will be a matter of whether he is smart enough : to out wit the unions in the preselection battles and caucus.

I do have some concern about his lack of experience in private enterprise, but maybe his wife's influence will make up for that.


----------



## Stan 101 (10 September 2007)

*Re: Who was Kevin Rudd was before he was Leader of the Opposition?*

Rudd is indeed looking like a breath of fresh air, though the party itself still has a huge cloud over their ability to work together on a unified stance. It was only 12 months ago that the federal labor party looked close to implosion.
In-fighting and leadership changes have destablised the party. Does Rudd have the support and the ability to bring his team together?
What does the rest of his team bring to the table?

I like some of the style of Rudd; he is happy to admit other parties do at times have good ideas. It was impressive to see his diplomatic skills of late.

It will be an intersting election... Anyone taking a tote on when the election will be?


Cheers,


----------



## The Mint Man (22 October 2007)

*Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*

OMFG:screwy::nuts:
You just have to see this, click the link below to see it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ipvdBnU8F8
Heres a sneek peak... 



I dunno what else to say


----------



## The Mint Man (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*

OK, I've gathered myself now... fuewww.
I think the question should be.

*'Is the minister concerned that Kevin Rudd picks his ears and eats the wax'*

Cheers


----------



## gordon2007 (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*

I've seen that on the news also. Funny as heck and gross all at the same time. It just makes him look very much like a school boy nerd. I wonder if it will really have any consequences on the election.


----------



## SevenFX (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*

Where do people come up with these all around election time... funny that...

EDIT: OR do the opposition hold everythin and release them in election time... hmmmm

Anyway would IMAGINE it tastes better that Liver, Kidney, or snot I seen one kid eating on a train once... uuuuuhhhh

Needless to say I found another seat on the train.

SevenFX


----------



## CanOz (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*

OMG! Thats the most disgusting thing!

And knowing full well that the cameras are rolling.....Dough head!


----------



## nioka (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*

Mint man, you don't work in Tony Abbot's office do you. He specialises in this sort of thing.  However no excuses for Rudd here.


----------



## Lachlan6 (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*

Even more scary is the color of Julia Gillard's hair! Obviuosly sent Ruddy a little cooko. :


----------



## Dukey (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*

HA!!!!!!!!
thats hilarious!!!!!!!! 
- maybe he should collect his ear wax and sell little pots of it on ebay for 50 bucks each, when he becomes PM. Could be a nice little earner.!!!!!!!


----------



## SevenFX (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*

So is this a wax smearing campain by the Liberals or did somebody in the public just happen to record this years ago...


----------



## moXJO (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*



SevenFX said:


> So is this a wax smearing campain by the Liberals or did somebody in the public just happen to record this years ago...




Would it make it less disgusting???


----------



## Kimosabi (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*

Maybe he's not a Reptilian like Howard but a Catilian...



> *WHY DO CATS LIKE EATING EARWAX ??*
> 
> I did a study on earwax as part of my degree in neuroscience (Bsc.Neurosci. Nottingham 1997) , and know a fair bit about Sensory Reception in both humans and cats. . .
> 
> ...




http://www2.b3ta.com/files/cat-earwax-conundrum.htm


----------



## chops_a_must (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*

Mint Man.

Are you a spam bot?

Are you actually a member of a political party?


----------



## The Mint Man (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*



> I wonder if it will really have any consequences on the election.



I doubt it.... After all thats what us Aussie blokes do, isnt it? Definitly some sort of weired fetish going on here.....can just see Rudd in the strip club now, saying 'pick my ear and feed it to me':eek3:


> And knowing full well that the cameras are rolling.....Dough head!



I know.... can't even try to make an excuse for that.


> Mint man, you don't work in Tony Abbot's office do you.



No!


> Even more scary is the color of Julia Gillard's hair!



 I agree that the hair is scary... but scarier than Rudds actions, I think not. haha.


> So is this a wax smearing campain by the Liberals or did somebody in the public just happen to record this years ago...



 You can watch question time when its on a 2pm, its well and truly in the public. There are tons of this type of political stuff on youtube, not like this though. I doubt the Liberals did it.


> Are you actually a member of a political party?



No.


----------



## The Mint Man (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*

Well here is the spin machine has been working overtime. Here is speach from Kevin on the ear wax eating



> Can I just start by saying that I’ve spoken _to Therese and told her I had been a bit of a goose._
> On the day in question my ear wax was quite _stale_ and it was very hard to get out, _but you know something?_ At the time I thought to myself _I'm up against a really tough competitor _here.
> 
> On the question of why I did it in full view of the camera, well _can I just say, as someone who grew up in the country_ I didn't have the luxury of cotton buds so I used sticks to clean my ears out. However in _due season _I realized this would hurt my ears, that’s when I thought to myself you know what? _We need real solutions to real problems _…. So being the _very clever politician _that I am I decided that it would be much better to pick my ear with my finger and lick the wax to clean it off, why? Well _the bottom line is this_, it’s not as sharp as a stick and it tastes good!
> ...


----------



## Prospector (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*

He seemed to quite enjoy the taste, too


----------



## The Mint Man (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*



Prospector said:


> He seemed to quite enjoy the taste, too




I know he actually has a good ol' chew!!


----------



## chops_a_must (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*



The Mint Man said:


> I know he actually has a good ol' chew!!




Can you please answer my question about being a member of a political party.

I think this nonsense has gone far enough. There aren't individual threads for each of Howard's slip ups.


----------



## The Mint Man (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*



chops_a_must said:


> Can you please answer my question about being a member of a political party.
> 
> I think this nonsense has gone far enough. There aren't individual threads for each of Howard's slip ups.



Firstly, Answered your question already.
Secondly;
Slip up? well I think your idea of a slip up is very different to most peoples. I think your on your own here.... I dont think this is a slip up, a slip up is when you cant name one tax bracket or an interest rate (make you happy?).

He picked his ear and ate it! thats sick and strangely funny at the same time, it deserves its own thread. I tell you what, you find something as funny/embarrassing as that about howard and I'll post it myself. Ill even take the piss if it makes you happy?
Truth be told, I heared about this on a radio station.

Grow up!


----------



## wayneL (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*



chops_a_must said:


> Can you please answer my question about being a member of a political party.
> 
> I think this nonsense has gone far enough. There aren't individual threads for each of Howard's slip ups.



Agree, the occasional satirical dig or passing reference to a faux pas is par for the course, funny even, but taking it too far becomes childish IMO.


----------



## Boyou (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*

What a rediculous waste of forum space!

Mint Man, you have either WAY too much time on your hands OR you are just pushing your own political barrow here.

There must be another forum where useless rubbish like this belongs.If there isn't..why don't you start one? That will occupy your sense of the trivial and give you space to vent your political agenda. 

Chers Ya'll


----------



## gordon2007 (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*

I hardly think it is a waste of time nor space. If you feel so strongly that it is a waste, why did you bother to read all the way down and why did you bother to post a reply? It's humour. It would be funny if it was Howard, Bush, Rudd, the Pope, any person in the spotlight.

Rudd picked his ear and ate the wax. It's gross. If you do something gross, and someone points it out, well that's too bad. Don't do gross things and then you won't be ridiculed for doing gross things.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*



The Mint Man said:


> OK, I've gathered myself now... fuewww.
> I think the question should be.
> 
> *'Is the minister concerned that Kevin Rudd picks his ears and eats the wax'*
> ...




Good on ya Mint Man. Does Kevvie eat worms as well ???

gg


----------



## Prospector (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*

What is with all the angst?  It is in general chat, the heading describes the content exactly, and heck, there have been plenty of 'bushisms' on this forum!  And no-one has stopped anyone doing a Howard thread.

I can only surmise that Rudd is a no-go zone then?


----------



## Rafa (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*

i think its more of the fact mint man started the thread..
he has started more anti labor threads than anyone else on these boards


he must really love the liberals...


----------



## Prospector (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*



Rafa said:


> i think its more of the fact mint man started the thread..
> he has started more anti labor threads than anyone else on these boards...




Goes to show how many straight political posts I read then, doesn't it!:


----------



## sam76 (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*



gordon2007 said:


> I hardly think it is a waste of time nor space. If you feel so strongly that it is a waste, why did you bother to read all the way down and why did you bother to post a reply? It's humour. It would be funny if it was Howard, Bush, Rudd, the Pope, any person in the spotlight.
> 
> Rudd picked his ear and ate the wax. It's gross. If you do something gross, and someone points it out, well that's too bad. Don't do gross things and then you won't be ridiculed for doing gross things.




here here.


----------



## 2020hindsight (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*

Sure it's something he wished he didn't do on camera.
Bit like the rugby players who get an itchy crotch just as the camera swings to them.  
Or the cricketers poor bugas lol - invariably picking their nose on TV. 

btw - If it IS wax - it's something he finds in the periphery of his earlobe (see the way his finger hooks it out of that peripheral bit of his "shell-like").  I don't think he went into his ear for instance.  

...
what a shame Johnny H didn't stay on the periphery of Iraq 

btw also - even if it were earwax - I could forgive it.
But going into Iraq I find pretty unforgiveable.


----------



## Kimosabi (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*

I'm quite looking forward to Labor running the country again.

The current government has been getting a little too fascist for my liking...


----------



## moXJO (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*



wayneL said:


> Agree, the occasional satirical dig or passing reference to a faux pas is par for the course, funny even, but taking it too far becomes childish IMO.




yet everyone seems to enjoy the chasers....Childish is picking your ear and eating it, even my kids dont go down that path.

Whats wrong with mint supporting libs.Ive seen the same people ramp labor over and over in every political thread.Some of it leaning to abusive.At least this is funny.


----------



## wayneL (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*



moXJO said:


> yet everyone seems to enjoy the chasers....Childish is picking your ear and eating it, even my kids dont go down that path.
> 
> Whats wrong with mint supporting libs.Ive seen the same people ramp labor over and over in every political thread.Some of it leaning to abusive.At least this is funny.



Nothing wrong with supporting the Libs at all, that is not the point whatsoever. Mint can support the Anarchists for all I care, and not even a problem posting the video, fair game.

We just don't want the normally good natured jousting on this forum to turn to sh!te because some people take it a little to far.. and not pointing the finger at anyone. Heck, I'll give politicians a spray as well.

Just some reasonable restraint, no matter which politician is involved, would be good.

That's fair isn't it?


----------



## cuttlefish (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*

why did the thread have to turn into a thread about whether there should be a thread rather than a thread about rudd eating ear wax?

An election's been called.  There's going to be quite a few political threads.  Funny ones. Serious ones. People with different agenda's will start different types of threads.  Then the election will be over and the political threads will slow down again.

Looks like pretty old footage, interesting that its appeared now, or has it been around for a while?   Pretty surprising that someone would do that in a room full of people, including a bunch facing you - camera's or no camera's.


----------



## cuttlefish (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*

Reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where Jerry was in his car at the lights with his finger bent in half scratching his nose, but his girlfriend is in the car next to him and sees it and thinks he's having a dig. Wonder what Rudds excuse would be - pretty embarrassing for him. Is it possible its fake?


----------



## wayneL (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*



cuttlefish said:


> why did the thread have to turn into a thread about whether there should be a thread rather than a thread about rudd eating ear wax?



Well maybe we should open a thread to discuss this thread?


----------



## cuttlefish (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*



wayneL said:


> Well maybe we should open a thread to discuss this thread?



  -  I'd rather eat my own ear wax!!


----------



## Wysiwyg (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*

Fleas... they are fleas.I get them all the time and it is quite normal to remove them in such way.


----------



## arminius (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*

not the greatest look.

personally though i would prefer rudd to eat his own chunky snot if it means he can bowl a cricket ball 20 yards without it bouncin 3 times and into the fence. 
if that wasnt australias most embarrassing moment i dunno what is.

seriously, im curious to watch as the libs implode over the next few weeks. and im equally interested to see the desperation grow among the liblovers here and elsewhere.

and the oscar goes to ....the liberals for claiming, with a perfectly straight face, victory for howard in last nights debate. 

the next polls should be interesting.

ps: im still perplexed as to why some people want howard returned. i truly am.


----------



## The Mint Man (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*



> What is with all the angst? It is in general chat, the heading describes the content exactly, and heck, there have been plenty of 'bushisms' on this forum! And no-one has stopped anyone doing a Howard thread.
> 
> I can only surmise that Rudd is a no-go zone then?



Hit the nail on the head with that last line that’s for sure! I think that alot of these guys have glass jaws. 
They don’t like it when anyone says a bad thing about Kevin Rudd or Labor, like you said, if it was about Howard then that would be OK. I can’t agree more with your statement about the fact that I described the content exactly and posted it in the general chat, I played by the rules. I also think it is quite obvious that this is meant to be a humorous thread. If you don’t like the content then don’t read it, otherwise stiff ****.
I don’t know how many times Joe has told people to add other forum members to their banned list if they feel they get too worked up about their views.
I also find it funny how I’ve had all sorts of comments thrown my way both in this thread (and the other one I started the other day) these include- Childish, Liberal Lover, liberal party stooge, too much time on my hands ... no problem, what can I say... I haven’t been on here for a while and I thought I'd come to wish you all a happy Christmas. It’s no skin off my nose if you don’t like my point of view.





Rafa said:


> i think its more of the fact mint man started the thread..
> he has started more anti labor threads than anyone else on these boards...




I don’t think so Rafa, at least back up your claims if you’re going to make them.

Here are the links to political threads I have posted most recently, that I can find.
1. This one which is meant to be light hearted.
2. Labor Tax policy thread (serious discussion backed up by documents or reports) https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8529&highlight=mint+man
3. ACTU target employers (serious discussion backed up by documents or reports)
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7326&highlight=mint+man
4. Would Peter (Costello) make a good PM? (serious discussion with poll attached) obviously this one is actually about the Liberal party
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3498&highlight=mint+man
So as you can see there are 3 threads that I have posted that are either directly or indirectly related to Labor. 2 are serious discussions and 1 is more for humour.  If you can find more threads I’ve started then please post them up.

Even if your right Rafa, I make no apology for participating in the creation of new threads (or even posts for that matter) on this forum be it political, sport, share market….or whatever else I have had to do with on this forum. After all it is a Forum! 
If you can’t hack other peoples opinions or views then go away, simple as that.
As for wayneL’s post about going too far, I don’t think I did, certainly not any more than some of the Labor supporters here that’s for sure…. But hey if that’s your view then that’s cool.


I’ve also noticed a few threads pop up along the lines of this one, well you know what they say 'imitation is the best form of flattery'. I haven’t read them yet but I will do in due season. 

Cheers


----------



## moXJO (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*



arminius said:


> seriously, im curious to watch as the libs implode over the next few weeks. and im equally interested to see the desperation grow among the liblovers here and elsewhere.
> 
> .




Soooo much hate for liblovers


----------



## Rafa (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*

don't take it personally mint man... i was merely explaining the reason for the general angst to prospector...

i for one enjoy the fact you post, (you don't need to apologise) mainly cause you simply repeat liberal propoganda... be it on unions, labors lack of tax policy, labors bingo cards, labors bad of the stock market, labors bad for the economy, etc, etc and it gives people a valid forum to argue for or against that...

you are more than entitled to post, and i am more that entitled to put my views forward on why i think some of your points may be wrong... and you can counter back... 

yes I would like to see some independent thought, and yes i would like to see people debate policy, rather than personality, or some scare tactic newly posted up on the liberals website... but if thats your style, then thats your style... (that certainly seems to be the style of the incumbent political party at the time, be it labor or liberal)

its a free country... and its and election campaign... so personal attacks seem to be part of the mix... 



my only gripe is that we should have this in one thread, not 10 different threads... mods, i think you should seriosly consider merging all the various posts into an election 2007 thread, or something like that...

if there needs to be a thread, specifically on tax, then thats fine, as long as what is discussed is the two tax policies.


----------



## Julia (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*

I just can't believe I'm reading a thread about a potential Prime Minister eating his own ear wax!


----------



## moXJO (22 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*



Rafa said:


> i for one enjoy the fact you post, (you don't need to apologise) mainly cause you simply repeat liberal propoganda... be it on unions, labors lack of tax policy, labors bingo cards, labors bad of the stock market, labors bad for the economy, etc, etc and it gives people a valid forum to argue for or against that...
> 
> .




Which parts are propoganda??


----------



## Blitzed (23 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*

I think he just had an itchy ear, went to scratch it, found a bit of pointy finger nail and then went to bite it off. 
I don't think even kids eat ear wax.


----------



## Prospector (23 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*



Kimosabi said:


> I'm quite looking forward to Labor running the country again.
> 
> The current government has been getting a little too fascist for my liking...




I think what has happened is that Rudd (without the Unions) is pretty much occupying the same space that the Liberals used to, so there is only one direction that the Liberals can go, and that is further right!

I really like Rudd, I think he is kind of sweet,  in a school boy kind of way, and very very clever.  I would vote for him in an instant, if it wasn't for those pesky trade union people lining up behind him, and, my fear, they will push him off once (if) they win the next election.  I can't imagine why any unionist would like him, to be honest!  He is not their kind of guy.


----------



## The Mint Man (23 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*



Rafa said:


> if there needs to be a thread, specifically on tax, then thats fine, as long as what is discussed is the two tax policies.



That I agree with. However it would be imposible to talk about anything and not get off track in some way, maybe the 'off topic' smilie should be used more often.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (23 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*



Blitzed said:


> I think he just had an itchy ear, went to scratch it, found a bit of pointy finger nail and then went to bite it off.
> I don't think even kids eat ear wax.




Yes you must be right. He also isn't controlled by the unions, can't remember being at Scores, doesn't have the same policies as the Liberals and isn't a control freak with his staff. Silly me. You've convinced me. The pointy bit on his nail. mmmm   I must get a better monitor. 

gg


----------



## sam76 (31 October 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*

hahahah  - this has even hit The States!

Rudd's earwax goes global



Has Kevin Rudd picked a winner?


Opposition Leader Kevin Rudd says he wishes his behaviour was more ideal, after an internet video showed him apparently picking and eating his own ear wax in Parliament.

The video, circulated in recent weeks, dates back to Mr Rudd's early years as an MP.

It was recently played on American national television on The Tonight Show hosted by Jay Leno.

Mr Rudd wasn't sure what to think when asked about it today.

"That's great," he told reporters in Grafton, in northern NSW.

"I'm really pleased about that - how did I go on Jay Leno? I've only seen it once.

"All of us in public and private life would wish our behaviour to be more ideal."

Mr Rudd has previously told local media he was scratching his chin.


----------



## Lucky (24 November 2007)

*Is Rudd another Scullin?*

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=6681
By James Cumes - posted Friday, 23 November 2007

_There are intriguing similarities between the forthcoming federal election and those of 1929.

In 1929 the Scullin Labor Government won a landslide victory and took office just two days before the New York Stock-Exchange (NYSE) crash of Black Thursday, 24 October, which ushered in the Great Depression of the 1930s.

Prime Minister Stanley Melbourne Bruce, after more than six years in office, lost not only government but his own seat in the House of Representatives.

Now we have a similar situation in that a centre-right Prime Minister, John Howard, after eleven years in office, looks like being swept away in a landslide by centre-left Labor led by Kevin Rudd. Though perhaps unlikely, it may be that he could even lose his seat in the House of Representatives.

However, what comes after is the most intriguing aspect. In 1929, no one, least of all James Scullin and his ministers, had any idea that the world was about to crash into the greatest economic depression the world had known. They had even less idea of how they should react to any such crisis. Intriguingly, two of the key issues which confronted them were irresponsible debt and industrial relations.

The same seems to be true of the prospective Rudd Government. He has proclaimed himself to be a "conservative economist". He has spoken during the campaign, mainly about interest rates and housing costs in conventional terms. He will amend industrial legislation to be more acceptable to workers. He says it all in the obvious expectation that the next few years - the next ten years perhaps - will be much the same as the last ten years under Howard.

There is not the slightest possibility that they will be.

We are about to go through the most tumultuous years - in economic, social, political and strategic terms - that we have ever known. The financial, banking and credit "system" will need to be reconstructed almost from scratch, globally as well as nationally. We will have to revise fundamentally our thinking about the means to maintain economic stability and growth, non-discriminatory international trade, stable exchange rates and international capital flows; indeed, the whole gamut of issues with which we were concerned in reconstructing the world economy after the Great Depression and the Second World War.

Can a Rudd Government survive attempts to achieve a re-modelling of so much? Does it have any idea how it will contribute to thinking about such a re-modelling - and how to do so with the vital interests of Australia, both short and long term, in mind?

The Scullin Government was an abject failure. Despite Mungana, it was not corrupt or dishonest. It was well-intentioned; and it was in no sense extremist or revolutionary. On the contrary, its economic and financial policies were conservative. Though some of its members wanted more expansionist policies, it accepted a "Premiers' Plan" so devastatingly conservative that it did more to create misery for the people of Australia than the Great Crash of the NYSE ever did.

Confused, defeated and despised by its left constituency as well as the right, it lasted until January 1932. The Labor Party split three ways. A Labor defector, Joe Lyons, formed the United Australia Party, became Prime Minister and staggered on until his death in 1939 - some months before the outbreak of war.

Labor did begin to show some signs of revival in the mid-thirties. Most conspicuously, Ben Chifley made some useful contributions to the Royal Commission on Money and Banking in 1936. By the time Labor regained office just weeks before Pearl Harbour in 1941, ideas that would remedy the ills of the 1930s were being drafted into policies by Labor and formed the basis of the domestic and international economic policies that the Curtin and Chifley Governments would implement with such success between 1945 and 1949.

For Curtin and Chifley, the revolution was well prepared and they succeeded. For later Labor Governments, the way was never sufficiently prepared. The Whitlam Government had no idea how to deal with the problems of the 1970s. The Hawke and Keating Governments thought they did know and, in the process, led us down a highly conservative, right-wing, Reagan/Thatcher road that now threatens to destroy global stability and Australia’s economic, political and strategic security in a highly toxic global environment.

Where does that leave us with a Rudd Government? Past governments have failed utterly to make us the "Tiger" we should have been in the world that followed the breakdown of post-war stability between 1969 and 1971. Instead, they have left us exposed to all the hazards that flow from “floating” exchange rates, massive global speculation, reckless deregulation, opportunistic privatisation and, most recently, the escapades of the financial adventurers, who have flogged credit and other dubious derivatives around the world. These various financial “enterprises” have, inter alia, feasted on pension funds which, in turn, in our privatising mania, have fed on millions of pensioners whose future financial security is now gravely at risk.

There is nothing in what Rudd, his shadow ministers or advisers have said and indeed nothing in the pronouncements of academics, "experts" or anyone else, that suggests that the incoming government - whether it be Labor or Coalition - has the faintest idea of the nature, scope and magnitude of the problems that confront us or of the ways in which they may be resolved.

Unless the incoming government is extremely lucky, the crash will become manifest in the next few weeks or at the latest by March 2008. The United States is almost certainly in recession already, concealed only by spurious official statistics. The dollar has fallen sharply and almost certainly will fall further and faster as the weeks go by; household, corporation and public debt is unprecedented; consumer and asset inflation is high; credit is tight and getting tighter. The financial crisis is already flowing to the rest of the American economy -and spreading, like a deadly epidemic, globally.

Central banks never were of much value. In recent years, they have created far more problems than they have solved. The Federal Reserve purports to manage the crisis, but its reduction of interest rates and its flooding of the banking system with funds serve little purpose except to give desperate, short-term hope in a financial "system" which is so inherently invalid that its collapse is several degrees more assured than we usually associate with the term "inevitable".

Very little of this seems to be preoccupying anyone in Australia - at least among the campaigning parties or those advising them. Concern is expressed from time to time about the "sub-prime crisis" and the credit crunch. Very little is said about, for example, the carry trade which has been supporting the Australian dollar and conveniently neutralising a large part of Australia’s external deficit. Recently, the yen has been highly volatile and the carry trade has been unwinding and rewinding in harmony. We have not yet had the "Great Unwind" but, assuredly, it is not far down the road.

That leads us to the further point that we have, for the last two or three years in particular, been through one of the greatest commodity booms in history. This boom has affected a whole range of raw materials, as well as food which, if because of drought we have not been able to sell in abundance, we should, in some compensation, have been able to get better prices.

From this, we might have imagined that we would be enjoying as splendid a surplus in our external trade as, let us say, Russia from the boom in oil. But that is not so.
It has not happened, largely because Australians have continued to consume vast quantities of luxury goods, paid for by massive credit-card and mortgage debt based largely on false notions of expanding personal wealth.

The external deficit has shown some volatility but it is a reasonable prediction that, based on performance so far, the trend in future will show the deficit increasing rather than receding. The carry trade will then unwind, perhaps completely and there may be an easing - perhaps a grave easing - of commodity demand from China if their economy and, for example India’s, strikes a rough patch.

None of these developments is improbable nor is it improbable that they could occur together. But Australia is not prepared for such an eventuality. Against this background, a Rudd Government is not remotely prepared to deal with the probable crises that might confront us; nor of course would a Howard Government have a clue as to what it might be best to do.

Either alternative would be faced with the outcome of nearly forty years of successive governments' failure to make Australia one of the "Tiger" economies. Rudd now declares his determination to put a laptop in the lap of every young Australian. In itself, that objective is noble; but it is pathetic that only now a Labor campaigner for office should be advocating it as a sort of cure-all. He may be putting it forward when, before one laptop can be delivered under the program, the house of financial and economic cards that Labor and Liberal governments have built over the past three to four decades will be toppling around us. Many of us will be left with no job, no house, no adequate professional or trade education, no decent health service and, at the end of it all, no pension except one that has been heavily depreciated in the financial storms that our Governments have done so much to provoke._


----------



## Lucky (24 November 2007)

*Re: Is Rudd another Scullin?*

Cont.

_A Rudd Government, if we get one, might last as long as Scullin’s did. That would take us perhaps to the beginning of 2010. Labor would probably split long before that. The Treasurer or some other minister might take a few Labor dissidents to form a government with Opposition members led perhaps by Peter Costello. Somehow, we might then stumble through a long, deep and terrible depression, to end around, let us say, 2017 in World War Three.

With those prospects, Labor - and Kevin Rudd - might be well advised to disdain any offer of power to govern and so avoid going down in history as another well-meaning but feckless Scullin-type Government. Let Howard and his retinue take the blame and just opprobrium for a catastrophe to which they have contributed with such unbridled generosity.

It won't happen of course. On the night of 24 November 2007, Labor, led by Rudd, will probably be declared the victor and they will confront their unenviable destiny. For Australia, it won’t be any worse than having Howard's Coalition as the victor. Indeed, it might be rather better. But, whoever is the victor, I - as one who grew up in the last Great Depression - can only offer a prayer and express a hope. That hope is that we Australians may come through this new and even more terrible challenge, with the same spirit and fortitude that we did seventy years and more ago.
_


----------



## 2020hindsight (24 November 2007)

*Re: Is Rudd another Scullin?*



Lucky said:


> .......
> In 1929 the Scullin Labor Government won a landslide victory and took office just two days before the New York Stock-Exchange (NYSE) crash of Black Thursday, 24 October, which ushered in the Great Depression of the 1930s.



Lucky - the only depression (at least in NSW) next week is a bit of welcome rain  - but who nose , you might be right lol. 

i.e. The world financial markets might just be hanging on their seats tonight to see the outcome of that quaint election thing they have downunder there in Austria - or whatever it's called


----------



## 2020hindsight (24 November 2007)

*Re: Is Rudd another Scullin?*

Lucky - one thing 's for sure - you'll be able to say you called it first lol


----------



## 2020hindsight (24 November 2007)

*Re: Is Rudd another Scullin?*

Lucky
since you're into history there, here's a bit on Menzies, 16th and 21st PRIME MINISTER
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5557/menzies.html


> SIR ROBERT GORDON MENZIES
> 16th and 21st PRIME MINISTER
> 26 APR 1939 - 29 AUG 1941;
> 19 DEC 1949 - 26 JAN 1966



You'll notice a bit missing there between 1941 and 1949.
Now why would that be do you reckon ?


----------



## numbercruncher (24 November 2007)

*Re: Is Rudd another Scullin?*

For some reason people at asf dont like me talking about Liberal party eyebrows, so ill refrain, but im sure there is something in it


----------



## 2020hindsight (29 November 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*

featured in chasers last night 
get your own wax statue


----------



## noirua (29 November 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*

Cats love ear wax as it smells great. It has a bitter sweet flavour and goes well with a bowl of milk and Chinese rice.


----------



## AndrewM123 (29 November 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*



noirua said:


> Cats love ear wax as it smells great. It has a bitter sweet flavour and goes well with a bowl of milk and Chinese rice.




Never tasted a cats ear wax


----------



## Pat (29 November 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*

What a crack up! First time i've seen this thread. Shame on me.

Question... Why do some people get so emotional over politics? Is it a problem posting political opinions?
Build a bridge...
I for one wish I never enroled to vote! What a waste of 15 minutes on a Saturday afternoon.


----------



## AndrewM123 (30 November 2007)

*Re: Kevin Rudd eating ear wax, MUST SEE!!!*



Pat said:


> What a crack up! First time i've seen this thread. Shame on me.
> 
> Question... Why do some people get so emotional over politics? Is it a problem posting political opinions?
> Build a bridge...
> I for one wish I never enroled to vote! What a waste of 15 minutes on a Saturday afternoon.




I nowadays always postal vote..... They post out the ballot papers 2 weeks early so you get a good look at them,  a reply paid envelope,  AND if it were to be close you could feel as if your vote was the deciding factor as they say    ""It will come down to postal votes"", Plus no dramas going to the booth with a hangover etc etc etc


----------



## rhen (24 May 2008)

*Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Firstly, an apology.
This comment by our PM inspires anger in me...so I'll try to remain calm and apologize now if I don't succeed:
_Mr Rudd stuck to his guns when quizzed on a comment he made earlier in the day when he said that, through the Budget, the Government had done "as much as we physically can" to help.

He said the price of petrol, which hit a record high of $1.62 per litre in capital cities earlier this week, was largely out of his control._

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23745135-29277,00.html?from=public_rss

Wow! And in this man we trust to lead us into the future.
Sorry, but I think the man is a Luddite and possibly worse...though saying why may be slander.

Maybe on this point we should review an earlier PM on this issue:
_JOHN HOWARD, PRIME MINISTER: The principal purpose of the meeting was to talk about the Government's target of 350 million litres of bio-fuels by the year 2010. I'm pleased to report that both the Government and the oil companies have agreed to work together to achieve that target._
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2005/s1470594.htm

Well Mr Rudd what have you physically done/doing? Howard's proposition is certainly not one of those "silver bullets" but what is your Government doing??? We're further down that petrol price track now and we want you to wake up to the answers that have been around for 50 years now but were not "commercially appropriate" (to state a euphemism).
In that 7.30 Report I refer to, ethanol (a stopgap measure at best) was discussed as cheaper, legal and harmless to the engine (wonder who started the rumour to the contrary????). Yet in my town, this mix is not available to me!

Come on Mr Rudd. There have to be some of your believers reading this to forward this challenge: Show us you are no Luddite. Show us that you are doing something and not just interested in "talkfesting" in this matter.Try to wrest back some control. 



rhen


----------



## 2020hindsight (24 May 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



rhen said:


> 1. He said the price of petrol, which hit a record high of $1.62 per litre in capital cities earlier this week, was largely out of his control.[/I]
> 
> Wow! And in this man we trust to lead us into the future.
> Sorry, but I think the man is a Luddite and possibly worse...though saying why may be slander.
> ...






well, I seem to recall the first thing that Howard did when he got in way back 11 years whatever was to sack most of the CSIRO scientists 


> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/luddite
> Luddite...One who opposes technical or technological change.
> 
> After Ned Ludd, an English laborer who was supposed to have destroyed weaving machinery around 1779


----------



## rhen (24 May 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



2020hindsight said:


> well, I seem to recall the first thing that Howard did when he got in way back 11 years whatever was to sack most of the CSIRO scientists




Yes. None of them inspire hope...whatever political affliction they belong to!

_affliction_ 

Main Entry: af·flic·tion  
Pronunciation: \ə-ˈflik-shən\ 
Function: noun 
Date: 14th century 
1 : the state of being afflicted 
2 : the cause of persistent pain or distress 
3 : great suffering


----------



## justjohn (24 May 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

What is in his control at present ,fuel,food ,interest rates..............thats right the warm and fuzzy feeling summit we had.Another brainer the alcopop tax to stop binge drinking teenagers $50million per month to coffers and has just driven teens to buy bottles of spirits and mix themselves.At what time frame do we stop blaming previous leadership


----------



## vida (24 May 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I thought he was doing reasonably OK until his comments on Bill Henson the photographic artist calling them 'revolting'.  I didn't vote for him and neither for Howard but my vote would have gone to Rudd on preferences.  Here he is now giving fuel to the philistines who are condemning the human form which has been a subject of art for thousands of years, this is nothing new. Hensons' work is brilliant and beautiful and not 'revolting'. Its all in the eye of the beholder and thus in this case what was Rudd thinking when he saw the artworks, if he even has seen them. There is nothing to say he has seen it. 




justjohn said:


> What is in his control at present ,fuel,food ,interest rates..............thats right the warm and fuzzy feeling summit we had.Another brainer the alcopop tax to stop binge drinking teenagers $50million per month to coffers and has just driven teens to buy bottles of spirits and mix themselves.At what time frame do we stop blaming previous leadership


----------



## 2020hindsight (24 May 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

ok the slide from the old days when 100's of kids went on to study science can probably be blamed (a bit) on both sides.... (refer jpeg).    Mind you Howard must take the big chunk of the blame...

and Nelson seems to get a mention or three...

This from Australian Science Jan/Feb 2004...

http://www.control.com.au/bi2004/251Razor.pdf

or go to this website , and click on the pdf link in the top line there ...
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache...df+csiro+howard+1996&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=au


----------



## 2020hindsight (24 May 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

btw rhen, I found this article on some early "me-too-ism" by Howard,  some policies based on Labor initiatives, some on Pauline and One Nation.  

http://www.australianreview.net/digest/2006/02/jones.html

The evolution of industry policy under Howard
Evan Jones, The University of Sydney



> THE UNPROMISING EARLY HOWARD YEARS
> 
> The Coalition’s 1996 electoral platform promised an activist industry policy (Liberal Party of Australia 1996) but they immediately negated the promise on obtaining office. The first Budget’s priority was the slashing of expenditure, a vehicle for contrasting the Coalition’s fiscal credentials with Labor’s seeming fiscal profligacy,
> 
> ...


----------



## justjohn (24 May 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Well 20/20 looks like your Saturday arvo is going to be exciting ,defending Rudd all day I hope he appreciates your gallant efforts:


----------



## 2020hindsight (24 May 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



justjohn said:


> Well 20/20 looks like your Saturday arvo is going to be exciting ,defending Rudd all day I hope he appreciates your gallant efforts:




lol - I'm told I have to vacuum the floor 
personally I prefer madly going through the internet - working on avoiding        "late-onset-vacuum-between-the-ears" 

check out the 55s mark   rifling through those books chanting "Input!! Input!!" 

 Short Circuit 1 Trailer


----------



## justjohn (24 May 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

GEEZ 20/20 IF THATS THE CASE THE OFFICE FLOOR MUST BE SPOTLESS ,ANYWAY HAVE TO GO TO WORK ,2ND JOB TO PAY FOR THE INCREASE IN FUEL,FOOD,INTEREST RATES FUNNILY ENOUGH ITS AT A BOTTLE SHOPWERE I COPE IT ALL DAY ABOUT THE ALCOPOP TAX:alcohol:


----------



## 2020hindsight (24 May 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



justjohn said:


> GEEZ 20/20 IF THATS THE CASE THE OFFICE FLOOR MUST BE SPOTLESS ,ANYWAY HAVE TO GO TO WORK ,2ND JOB TO PAY FOR THE INCREASE IN FUEL,FOOD,INTEREST RATES FUNNILY ENOUGH ITS AT A BOTTLE SHOPWERE I COPE IT ALL DAY ABOUT THE ALCOPOP TAX:alcohol:



:topic
A mate of my son also works in an booze shop - told me this one 



> Bloke goes to the hardware shop obviously pissed
> "say mate, hic - you got any metho there? I'll have a dozen bottles"
> "No way" says the bloke behind the counter - "you look like you'll only drink it"
> "no no hic - I'm just painting the loungggeroom, and I need it t clean the brushes!!"
> ...


----------



## Julia (24 May 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

2020, the thread is asking does Mr Rudd inspire confidence.  It is not asking for a blow by blow rake over of every policy decision made by the former government.

We can safely assume you are a great fan of Mr Rudd.  Really don't need you to attempt to justify this with endless criticisms of the previous government, however well deserved they may be.

So, some of the gloss of the honeymoon period seems to be losing its lustre.
The folk are hurting.  Pensioners are taking off their clothes in protest and hitting the airwaves in increasing numbers.  They are on a roll now, with the medja on their side.   A couple of days ago a thread on this forum was started about 'feeling the pinch'.  Many of us have responded in agreement.
And I doubt too many members of ASF are exactly  struggling financially.
So the difficulties are real for a lot of people.  They will blame the government.  We will hear more and more that phrase :  "the gummint should be doing something to fix it".   

Labor partly created this expectation during the election campaign.  They bleated on about how people were being hurt by rising interest, petrol and food prices.  They would have a committee (or something) to monitor petrol and supermarket prices.  Translation of this in the minds of the populace?
If we elect them they will stop prices rising.  Doesn't matter that they didn't exactly say that.  We hear what we want to hear and if it's repeated often enough it becomes the popular truth.

If we had a halfway credible Opposition, they could be having a field day at present.  Instead they are mired in their internal squabbling and competitiveness.

So, do I have confidence in Mr Rudd?  No.  Imo he's a very articulate, polished product of his background as a diplomat and a bureaucrat.  But I have no confidence in the alternative either.


----------



## explod (24 May 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Very well put above Julia.

The promises of governments going back since I have remembered has always amused.  Australia is but a grain of sand in the real world scheme of things and it will and has allways been external forces that dictate the state of financial play.

Rudd, doesn't  do it for me,  Julia Gillard, she is a sweatee.   Bob Brown as an honest politician is looking better all the time and perhaps green is the next big thing.


----------



## rhen (24 May 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> 2020, the thread is asking does Mr Rudd inspire confidence.  It is not asking for a blow by blow rake over of every policy decision made by the former government.



Yes. it's my error, Julia. People reading the title of the thread are right to get side-tracked from my original diatribe. My _cry_ transcends politics, yet straight-jacketed by it... the inability of leaders to open their minds to the dire necessity of a new age without the dependence on burning a valuable resource, petroleum.
Our only hope is for the individual to come to the fore...
Governments and business crave the status quo...where the easy money is.
Rudd is a mere pawn.

rhen


----------



## 2020hindsight (24 May 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

well imho, everything must be seen in perspective..
I mean 
a) this is what Costello said the incoming govt would be faced with .. ( which obviously limits your options ..yes?) 



> http://www.smartcompany.com.au/Free...er-Costello-warns-of-huge-tsunami-071026.html
> 
> Henny Penny Peter Costello warns of ‘huge tsunami’
> Friday, 26 October 2007
> ...




b) Also, it's partly honeymoon, but equally, anyone would be struggling to keep the ball in the air at the moment...

c) And Howard made a heap of poor decisions first budget (at the "mean" end of the electoral cycle - whether or not he admits it - they set us back bigtime... and the biggest luddite-influence for yonks... 

d) As for the concept of a "honeymoon period",  I'll criticise Rudd to this extent - he doesn't have as much humour about him as Bob Hawke used to have. I recall him being challenged "is this just your honeymoon period with the press? " ...

The silver budgie replied " well, maybe, but it's high time it was consumated!!"


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (24 May 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

He speaks and acts like a second rate preacher from Gympie. 

He inspires no confidence in me on how he will manage this life or the next.

gg


----------



## Timmy (8 June 2008)

*Rudd calls on G8 to pressure OPEC*

Rudd calls on G8 to pressure OPEC

G8 reponse: Who?


----------



## explod (8 June 2008)

*Re: Rudd calls on G8 to pressure OPEC*

This is dreamalnd stuff for the Sheeple.  OPEC can no more increase supply than the Man in the moon.  The middle east oil is a sour heavy crude, and becoming more difficult to refine.   A government of leadership will move in the early part of its tenure to do big things, even if unpopular, that faces the truth and can realistically solve the big problems.

Natural gas fired power stations, built to be able to convert to nuclear Asap, to power alternative transport.

Stop spending on roads, the taxes from fuel to public transport, bus and rail.

Break the monopolies of supermarkets, subsidise farmers markets to town fringes.   Increased incentives to decentralise cities and ports.   eg. Melbourne expansion to Portland.   Make it pleasant on the outer fringes with decentralised hospitals schools.  Small manufacturing will come back in with the rampant inflation of China, encourage the cottage stuff on the ourter finges and near to where our resources are.

Phew, just had dinner, so much to say, someone else please


----------



## vishalt (8 June 2008)

*Re: Rudd calls on G8 to pressure OPEC*

Here's a better idea: Shut down the New York Mercantile Exchange and Chicago Board of Trade. 

Then arrest every broker there, force them to sell down all positions, and the price of everything will be back to normal. 

The developed world is using less oil and the emerging market is using more, so the trend has been balanced but the price rise hasn't. 

This is all Wall Street's fault. 

Each of the big banks, Citi, Bank of America, Goldman, Lehman are piling into the futures markets after horrid sub-prime losses.

They're doing that so they can inflate another bubble to recover money and then later dump it and the expense of other people, as usual.


----------



## Atma (8 June 2008)

*Re: Rudd calls on G8 to pressure OPEC*



vishalt said:


> Here's a better idea: Shut down the New York Mercantile Exchange and Chicago Board of Trade.
> 
> Then arrest every broker there, force them to sell down all positions, and the price of everything will be back to normal.
> 
> ...




correct Vishalt. The united states are burning themselves up. All the pomp and happiness exhibited in the election rallies are fake. They are feeling the heat. Their very own institutions that did very dishonest things during the US property bubble(and later fuelled into sub prime crisis) are speculating on oil price futures contracts and sending the world into a spin. This time however, everyone knows they are doing it. No one knew about sub prime until it went to pieces.

Only NYMEX and CBOT closures or heavy regulation would force them out IMHO. world oil demand is down and reports of tankers full of oil and no one wants it. classic bubble isn't it vishalt.

I think Rudd, and all foreign governments should leave OPEC alone, they are not causing this. They haven't done anything differently. Supplies continue. Its ironic that the US investment bankers Morgan stanley, GS, MERILL etc pumping up oil price increases OPEC's oil revenues as well. They are inadvertently helping opec and every shady oil producer.


----------



## Smurf1976 (8 June 2008)

*Re: Rudd calls on G8 to pressure OPEC*

Increase oil production? For once I'm hoping that a politician is telling lies. If not, if he actually thinks there's a chance of a significant production boost, then we're in massive trouble with someone so badly informed running the country. As I said, hopefully he's telling lies to placate the masses.

None if this is even slightly surprising to those who understand the geological situation. Get over it and move on. Oil and petrol are just, so, 20th century. That we don't have a viable alternative is beyond the point. Oil production growth seems finished or damn close to it.

As for the gas-fired power stations, converting them to nuclear implies building inefficient gas-fired plants (steam turbines and boilers rather than combined cycle) that will use 50% more gas than a state of the art plant. Better to either go nuclear from the start or keep them as gas. 

A modern gas-fired plant can't be readily converted to anything that isn't a liquid or gas fuel. Even coal is incredibly difficult - you'd have to turn it into a gas or liquid before it goes into the power station which is an awful lot more complicated than a simple pulverised fuel boiler (conventional coal-fired plant) or even a fluidised bed. 

If you want something that's nuclear convertible in future then conventional coal-fired plant is a far more sensible choice than gas - both are basically the same in operation and equipment apart from the heat source and bits related directly to it.


----------



## Julia (8 June 2008)

*Re: Rudd calls on G8 to pressure OPEC*

Smurf:  are you dismissing the above suggestions of the effects of futures markets as a factor in the current situation?

Are we being just a little too ready to accept a non-future for oil?


----------



## wayneL (8 June 2008)

*Re: Rudd calls on G8 to pressure OPEC*



vishalt said:


> Here's a better idea: Shut down the New York Mercantile Exchange and Chicago Board of Trade.
> 
> Then arrest every broker there, force them to sell down all positions, and the price of everything will be back to normal.
> 
> ...




Absolute nonsense.

The problem is economic policy, not futures markets. Commodities without futures markets are in a bubble as well. eg iron ore.

We must look back to september 11 2001 for the catalyst and subsequent economic policy.


----------



## explod (8 June 2008)

*Re: Rudd calls on G8 to pressure OPEC*



Smurf1976 said:


> As for the gas-fired power stations, converting them to nuclear implies building inefficient gas-fired plants
> 
> If you want something that's nuclear convertible in future then conventional coal-fired plant is a far more sensible choice than gas - both are basically the same in operation and equipment apart from the heat source and bits related directly to it.





Good on you Smurf, I am out of my depth here but glad that someone got fired up who has a bit of an idea.

My point is that Governments need to get very serious about big changes.   NOW


----------



## Smurf1976 (8 June 2008)

*Re: Rudd calls on G8 to pressure OPEC*



Julia said:


> Smurf:  are you dismissing the above suggestions of the effects of futures markets as a factor in the current situation?
> 
> Are we being just a little too ready to accept a non-future for oil?



Agreed that speculation would be having some effect. But I see it as the closest thing we're going to get to proof that additional supply isn't going to come online anytime soon (if ever).

If we had spare capactity outside of OPEC or even the ability to develop that capacity, then I'm sure that private companies motivated by profit would be doing so. They went flat out with Bass Strait, North Sea, Alaska etc at $20 a barrel so they're hardly going to ignore prices over $100. But thus far we're not seeing additional supply, we're not seeing anything sufficient being built and we're not seeing major new oil discoveries. 

To me, that very strongly suggests that non-OPEC oil producers, who are the majority of oil production, simply can not increase output and can't even find much more oil. They certainly have the motivation but it's just not happening.

As for OPEC, again it's similar. They ignored quotas and pumped like crazy at $20 but aren't increasing output at six times that price. Their official price band was $22 - $28 until not that long ago. But to get prices back to that level would see a major increase in demand (priced out third world countries, priced out consumers in developed countries, industry and especially power generation switching fuels). We'd need a lot of extra barrels to sustain a lower price and OPEC would surely know that.

All up, it just seems more than a co-incidence that we see this non-response from OPEC at the same time we see a non-response from other producers right at the time many are expecting geologically driven peak in production.

It's like noticing a cool breeze blowing at 4pm on a hot summer's day. The temperature starts to drop right when you'd expect it to. Some may say the thermometer's broken because the temperature was steadily rising before that so the trend ought to continue, but to me it says that actual events are going as expected. You expect the temperature to peak then decline at some point and even the ultra optimists expect oil production to peak and decline sometime. That time appears to be rather near - soaring prices and a frantic pace of drilling leading to little if any gains in production.

More effort in, no additional production. That's exactly what happened in individual fields or countries that have long ago peaked. More and more drilling failed to offset production declines. Trouble is, this time it's global.

So yes, speculators are likely increasing prices. But they can only do so because there isn't an ability to easily ramp production up. Even if that capacity does exist, it's clearly not being used which makes it somewhat irrelevant from a consumer's perspective - the capacity doesn't exist as far as "cheap" oil is concerned even if it does suddenly appear at $200, $500 or whatever.


----------



## Smurf1976 (8 June 2008)

*Re: Rudd calls on G8 to pressure OPEC*



explod said:


> Good on you Smurf, I am out of my depth here but glad that someone got fired up who has a bit of an idea.
> 
> My point is that Governments need to get very serious about big changes.   NOW



I see you're in Melbourne. Newport is an example of an old technology gas-fired plant - it has a boiler and steam turbine just like a coal-fired plant. Apart from issues with the environment and the physical size of the boiler being a bit small, you could convert that quite easily to coal. Or just put in a reactor and make it a nuke plant.

If you look at all the other gas-fired plants in Vic then they're open cycle gas turbines. Basically jet engines. Jeeralang (Latrobe Valley) is the historic one but there are quite a few newer ones. No chance of converting them to anyting really unless you count oil or coal gasification. Certainly they don't make viable nuclear plants.

The modern approach is to combine the two. Jet engine burns the gas and the exhaust heat is captured to make steam to run a steam turbine. Often both turbines drive the same alternator ("generator"). That saves about one third on gas consumption but makes any conversion to nuclear etc impractical. No such plants in Vic but there's a plan to build one. Such plants already operate elsewhere in Australia and there's heaps of them overseas.


----------



## Timmy (9 June 2008)

*Re: Rudd calls on G8 to pressure OPEC*



Smurf1976 said:


> Increase oil production? For once I'm hoping that a politician is telling lies. If not, if he actually thinks there's a chance of a significant production boost, then we're in massive trouble with someone so badly informed running the country. As I said, hopefully he's telling lies to placate the masses.




I started this thread in a light-hearted vein ... as if the G8 could give a flying whatever for what Mr. Rudd calls for ... if they even know who he is (he is the PM of that place that Mel Gibson* and Kylie Minogue are originally from).

I think this 'call' is near to 100% for domestic consumption, fearless leader doing something, that sort of thing.  I actually think the government, treasury, and the RBA are not entirely uncomfortable with the strength of oil, and hence petrol, prices from the perspective as a brake on the Australian economy.  There is only so much that can be done with monetary policy, and implementing a restrictive fiscal policy is not something the baby-kissers have the spine to implement; a high petrol price is providing the tax _and _it can be blamed on someone else - happy days.

Thanks all, especially Smurf, for the info here - really good stuff.






*Yes, yes, I know, born in NY, but you get my drift.


----------



## vishalt (9 June 2008)

*Re: Rudd calls on G8 to pressure OPEC*



wayneL said:


> Absolute nonsense.
> 
> The problem is economic policy, not futures markets. Commodities without futures markets are in a bubble as well. eg iron ore.
> 
> We must look back to september 11 2001 for the catalyst and subsequent economic policy.




But that's a fixed-price that the Government of China has agreed to. Who the hell has agreed to US$139 oil?

There is still enough oil for several decades left from the statistics I've seen for countries like Canada, Saudi Arabia etc. 

It IS the fault of the Wall St banks, they will always cause a bubble after one is finished, the lower dollar is just some paltry excuse.

It's funny because why didn't this become an issue two years ago when: the US economy was growing nicely, Europe was steaming ahead and emerging markets were surging too? 

Suddenly when developed world demand is down and emerging is rising slowly oil goes boom!

Goldman Sachs was the first one to come out and say $150, they built up their positions in oil through their hedge funds and used the media to unleash fear on the markets. 

Then Merrill Lynch, Citi, JPMorgan all come out and started agreeing with their price, I really wouldn't be surprised if they built up positions and then used the media to get everyone else on to inflate their positions.

Now people are so scared that superannuation funds have joined the NYMEX to simply have a small asset allocation to oil because it's now the "have-to-have commodity" and it's making things worse for those are unfortunately petrol reliant to live and work..

This is Wall St's new bubble and this is Wall St's fault.

On the flip side this is really going to push the agenda for hybrid fuels/more efficient technology.


----------



## wayneL (9 June 2008)

*Re: Rudd calls on G8 to pressure OPEC*



vishalt said:


> But that's a fixed-price that the Government of China has agreed to. Who the hell has agreed to US$139 oil?
> 
> There is still enough oil for several decades left from the statistics I've seen for countries like Canada, Saudi Arabia etc.
> 
> ...



You are still confused between cause and effect.

Hedge fund buying of commodities are an effect.

The cause is economic policy.


----------



## Smurf1976 (9 June 2008)

*Re: Rudd calls on G8 to pressure OPEC*



vishalt said:


> There is still enough oil for several decades left from the statistics I've seen for countries like Canada, Saudi Arabia etc.



In the OPEC countries those "statistics" are a political statement since the actual reserves are a state secret.

You could say "The Australian economy is booming, everything is fine and there isn't a single problem in the country that hasn't been fixed according to the claims released by the ALP's campaign office 5 minutes after the election date was announced".

That's clearly a political statement and not a fact. Same with Saudi etc oil reserves - that's why they just keep publishing the same figures year after year. *It's actually illegal for Saudi Aramco to publish any decline in reserves*.

That said, Saudi's official reserves would run the world for about 8 years. Canada's would do it for 4 years (or 6 if you use nuclear power to run the tar sands extraction process). Trouble is, it will take half a century to get that 8 or 4 years worth out of the ground - that's the problem.

It comes back to two things. Economic policy and geology. Geology sets a hard limit. Economic policy has totally ignored it and added massive inflation as well. Hence a boom in the oil price.

Much of what's been done in recent years is going in totally the wrong direction. It was madness to have private electricity companies building low capital cost plants running on gas or diesel with the company focused more on futures markets and the stock price than actual energy supply. It was madness to have millions mortgaging themselves to the hilt to buy outer suburban properties and SUV's. It was madnes to think that inflation somehow creates prosperity...


----------



## saiter (9 June 2008)

*Re: Rudd calls on G8 to pressure OPEC*



Smurf1976 said:


> Much of what's been done in recent years is going in totally the wrong direction. *It was madness to have private electricity* companies building low capital cost plants running on gas or diesel with the company focused more on futures markets and the stock price than actual energy supply. *It was madness to have millions mortgaging themselves* to the hilt to buy outer suburban properties and SUV's. *It was madnes to think* that inflation somehow creates prosperity...




No...

It was SPARTAAAAA!!!!

sorry, bad internet joke 

(noob question) So can't the governments knock out the speculators or just switch to a new form of energy asap? Would that screw the economy?


----------



## Timmy (9 June 2008)

*Re: Rudd calls on G8 to pressure OPEC*



Smurf1976 said:


> It was madness to have millions mortgaging themselves to the hilt to buy outer suburban properties and SUV's.




Smurf, just to zoom in one of your comments only - your thoughts on outer-suburban living combined with more efficient vehicles (hybrids, small petrol engines, scooters/motorcycles etc.)?


----------



## Smurf1976 (9 June 2008)

*Re: Rudd calls on G8 to pressure OPEC*



saiter said:


> So can't the governments knock out the speculators or just switch to a new form of energy asap? Would that screw the economy?



It's a massively comnplex situation, I'll explain (and try to stick to layman's terms)...

Petrol ,diesel etc aren't simply fuels for running engines. The crude oil from which they are made is an energy _source_ rather than an energy _carrier_

The main energy sources used in the developed world are oil, coal, natural gas, nuclear and hydro. All of these things are _sources_ of energy.

Examples of energy carriers are batteries, ethanol and hydrogen. They do not provide energy as such, they are simply a means of taking one form of energy (eg biomass or coal) and transforming it into some other form that is more practical for end users. 

Take a laptop computer for example. Start with coal in the ground (energy source). Burn the coal to generate electricity (energy carrier). Use that electricity to charge the battery (also an energy carrier). Then use the battery to run the computer. The energy source is NOT the battery, that is simply the energy carrier. The energy source running the laptop is in fact coal.

The problem we have with oil is that it is our largest energy source. It varies somewhat by location but it's roughly 40% of our total energy.

So if we're going to use something else to run cars (eg hydrogen or batteries) then that in itself doesn't fix the problem. It only works if we increase the supply of some other energy _source_ - otherwise we have no means of charging the batteries or making the hydrogen.

Efficiency is another problem. If you start with oil and refine it into petrol, diesel, kero etc then that process is highly efficient. Most of the energy contained in the oil makes it through to the petrol etc with only a small amount lost in the process. 

But consider electricity. Starting with coal we lose only a few percent in mining (fuel for equipment etc) and transport. But by the time we've converted it to electricity (which is the major use of coal) and transmitted that to your home, we've lost fully two thirds of the energy the coal contained. 

That's why electricity is so polluting - burn 3 units of fuel to get 1 unit of energy at your home or business. So say you need 10 MJ (megajoules) of heat energy put into some water. You'll have to burn 30 MJ of coal to do it with electricity. 

But it's even worse once batteries or hydrogen are introduced. To get that 10 MJ out of a battery means, due to the loses involved, burning about 43 MJ of coal. And to get it from hydrogen produced from electricity means burning about 50 MJ of coal.

But right now we get 10 MJ into the petrol tank from about 11 MJ of crude oil.

So if we're going to switch to something else then we need a LOT more of some non-oil form of energy. That means a lot more coal, gas (itself a limited resource so forget that other than in the short term), nuclear or renewables. 

It's not simply a matter of building a hydrogen factory or plugging electric cars into the nearest power point. Nor is it simply a matter of building a few more power stations to make that work. What we need is a lot more energy to run a lot more power stations - and that's not an easy task.

Take Victoria for example. You've got some depleted oil fields - not much help from those. You've got some gas but it's disappearing fast enough as it is - using even more just doesn't stack up. You've got some hydro but it's only a small amount of existing electricity and there's no way it can scale up enough to supply even present demand. And you've got a lot of brown coal - Victoria's major energy resource. But brown coal pollutes big time.

So what do we do? Either we're going to use a lot less energy in total as oil and then gas supplies decline. Or we're going to expand something else in a big way. Then we use that expanded production to run electric cars, hydrogen or whatever. But don't forget that hydrogen, batteries etc etc simply carry energy produced from something else and don't actually produce any energy themselves.

So overall it's a major expansion of the total amount of energy supplied from coal, nuclear and renewables. They don't have to increase individually, but in total they do. Or alternatively it's a permanent ongoing decrease in consumption. They are the only two options. 

In a technical (as in mechanics etc not stock charts) sense the easiest option is to switch to gas for running vehicles. But gas as a resource is fairly limited so that means we have to switch existing gas use to something else.

And what do we use to replace gas in its current uses? Coal gasification is the easiest answer there (that's where gas used to come from by the way - Sydney, Melbourne etc all had coal gasification plants 40 years ago). But if we do that then there's a problem. Do we accept a major rise in greenhouse gas emissions with this shift to coal? Or do we offset it by using less coal in power stations? And if we do that then where do we get electricity from? Nuclear or renewables become the only answer there and , unless we can get geothermal going in a big way, nuclear is the only one that works in a technical sense at an affordable price (though it's still not cheap).

My personal best guess is we'll do a bit of everything. Rising prices crimp consumption growth. Gas gets expensive too (already happening by the way) so we see less used for power generation than most are expecting. We do some renewables but not enough. We build a nuclear plant or two but again not enough. We end up using more coal than we'd like and greenhouse gas emissions rise as a result.

I'd also add that the "petrol price crisis" will spread to become a general energy crisis at least in price terms. We'll see gas prices rise (taking electricity with them whilst governments keep pushing gas-fired power) thus flowing onto both household etc gas and electricity. Then all forms of energy used by ordinary consumers - petrol, gas and electricity - will be a lot more expensive. That's actually already happening, it's just that your bills don't reflect it yet due to contractual and regulatory arrangements - but they won't protect you forever.

In the 1980's and 90's we had lots of government-built big non-oil or gas power stations keeping electricity cheap. And we had booming oil production from Alaska, Bass Strait, North Sea etc keeping OPEC in check. Now we have the opposite - deregulated electricity markets where few will invest in high capital cost coal, nuclear or hydro plant and falling oil production in most countries. Add the depletion of gas in North America and the North Sea and it's not a good mix globally.

Think about the overall situation this way. Country or state X uses 40% oil, 35% coal, 20% gas and 5% hydro as it's energy source. If you take out that oil, then you can't simply replace it with coal, gas or hydro unless you have a lot more of them (or some other alternative - but 40% from wind and solar ain't happening anytime soon).


----------



## saiter (9 June 2008)

*Re: Rudd calls on G8 to pressure OPEC*



Smurf1976 said:


> Think about the overall situation this way. Country or state X uses 40% oil, 35% coal, 20% gas and 5% hydro as it's energy source. If you take out that oil, then you can't simply replace it with coal, gas or hydro unless you have a lot more of them (or some other alternative - but 40% from wind and solar ain't happening anytime soon).




And if we don't find this replacement, then people won't be able to get to work and the economy will grind to a halt, yes? Very little products & services will be made available, so it's pretty much a doomsday event.


----------



## Julia (9 June 2008)

*Re: Rudd calls on G8 to pressure OPEC*

Smurf, as always, a lucid summary of a pretty pessimistic situation.
Thank you.  I'm not any happier, but a bit wiser.


----------



## Smurf1976 (9 June 2008)

*Re: Rudd calls on G8 to pressure OPEC*

A real example with real numbers. And a fairly low population largely self sufficient in food and power so it ought to be easier than many other places. Tasmania. 

Figures based on average hydro inflows and zero net import / export of electricity.

Hydro - 36% (93% of total electricity)
Oil - 33% 
Coal - 12% 
Natural Gas - 10% 
Wood - 8% 
Wind - 1% (2% of total electricity)

Try taking oil (or hydro) out of that and make the numbers work. What do you scale up that can fill the gap? There's no easy answer.

Globally, it's roughly like this (these figures vary considerably depending on source and how nuclear losses (which are high) and hydro losses (which are low) are counted. I've counted both in terms of the fossil fuel (coal, oil, gas) that would otherwise be used rather than the heat content of the uranium or falling water. Treat them as an order of scale for the relative fuels and not as absolutely precise data - that just isn't readily available.

Oil - 35%
Coal - 25%
Natural Gas - 21%
Nuclear - 7%
Hydro - 6%
Other (biomass, wind, geothermal etc) - 6%

Again, same problem. What do you scale up given that gas is also peaking in some parts of the world?


----------



## Djayness (10 June 2008)

*Re: Rudd calls on G8 to pressure OPEC*

Unfortunately, with each passing year, the worlds oil production is decreasing whilst the demand for oil is increasing exponentially. Its not a case of OPEC, pump out some more....

The worlds economies are in for a shock... http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/


----------



## Julia (13 July 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Today's 'Sunday Mail' has an article entitled:
"Rudd is the PM You can Swear By"

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24009355-952,00.html

Dr Peter van Onselen, who wrote 'John Winston Howard:  The Biography" has written a book about Mr Rudd.   "The book reveals Mr Rudd to be somewhat of a potty mouth behind closed doors," Dr van Onselen told 'The Sunday Mail'.


----------



## rhen (13 July 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Fencepost Turtle

While stitching up the hand of a 75 year old Queensland farmer, who
got cut on a gate while working cattle, the rural doctor struck up a
conversation with the old man. Eventually the topic got around to
Kevin 07 and his appointment to Prime Minister of Australia.

"Well, ya know," drawled the old farmer, "this Rudd bloke is what
 they call a Fencepost Turtle."


 Not being familiar with the term, the doctor asked him what a
Fencepost Turtle was.

The old farmer said, "when you're driving along a country road and
you come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's
called a Fencepost Turtle."

The old farmer saw a puzzled look on the doctor's face, so he
 continued to explain, "You know he didn't get up there by himself,
 he definitely doesn't belong up there, he doesn't know what to do
while he is up there, and you just gotta wonder what kind of dill
 put him up there in the first place!''


----------



## Aussiejeff (13 July 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



explod said:


> Very well put above Julia.
> 
> The promises of governments going back since I have remembered has always amused.  Australia is but a grain of sand in the real world scheme of things and it will and has allways been external forces that dictate the state of financial play.
> 
> Rudd, doesn't  do it for me,  Julia Gillard, she is a sweatee.   Bob Brown as an honest politician is looking better all the time and *perhaps green is the next big thing*.




Kermit is such a cutie........

:hide:



AJ


----------



## agro (13 July 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

he has been out of Australia more than he has been in Australia !

i think he is trying to save the world ..

that's the confidence


----------



## Aussiejeff (14 July 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

It appears that 24/7 K.rudd has inspired confidence in Horatio. So much so in fact, that the Hornblower now _"works non-stop - 24 hours a day"_, according to some facile Liberal Party hack on ABC local radio this morning!!

24 HOURS A DAY!!!! EVEN WHILE HE SLEEPS???? Puleeeeese, gimme a break from this nauseating fawning....

The moral of this story?

If YOU don't work 24/7 like our esteemed *leaders*,  YOU are UN-AUSTRALIAN!!!!

Bugger this. I'm orf to join the penguins down at Mawson.....




AJ


----------



## wayneL (14 July 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Join us expats in The Old Dart, we get to see a Liebour party massacre in only 2 years, if not before.


----------



## Aussiejeff (14 July 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



wayneL said:


> Join us expats in The Old Dart, we get to see a Liebour party massacre in only 2 years, if not before.




Oooh, goody. Some pollies to be sacrificed. Will it be like the French Revolution. Guillotines et all??? 
:behead:


----------



## wayneL (14 July 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Aussiejeff said:


> Oooh, goody. Some pollies to be sacrificed. Will it be like the French Revolution. Guillotines et all???
> :behead:



Well I spotted a nice set of stocks up the road at Winchcombe... still look usable, and it would mean they have live through their humiliation too. :batman:


----------



## Aussiejeff (14 July 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



wayneL said:


> Well I spotted a nice set of stocks up the road at Winchcombe... still look usable, and it would mean they have live through their humiliation too. :batman:




Great! I'm packing a bushel of ripe tomatoes.... :2evil:


----------



## Euler (14 July 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

A view that that he's "process driven rather than results driven".

Sits well with his PS background.


----------



## juw177 (14 July 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Whats going on with *privatisation of energy*? The public strongly opposes it and it look like it will go on. The argument for it is that it will raise funds to support out public services and infrastructure. But doesn't our power grid count as infrastructure?


----------



## nioka (14 July 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



juw177 said:


> Whats going on with *privatisation of energy*? The public strongly opposes it and it look like it will go on. The argument for it is that it will raise funds to support out public services and infrastructure. But doesn't our power grid count as infrastructure?




 Hardly a Rudd failure though. This is a state matter and will cause big changes in the Labor movement one way or another. I am worried by the fact that it seems necessary to sell our electricity (and water) infrastructure for any reason at all.


----------



## pepperoni (14 July 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

No he doesnt inspire confidence, but then Howard did and ended up overcooking the economy.

So in the circumstances Ill take Rudd.


----------



## rhen (18 July 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

_*Rudd* defends Bligh over conflict of interest claims_
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/07/18/2308068.htm

_The Courier-Mail can reveal *Ms Bligh* and husband Greg Withers enjoyed a three-week stay in January at the mansion of Thiess board member and former federal minister *Ros Kelly*.
In May, Thiess won the Airport Link project, valued at $3.4 billion.
Thiess's consortium bid, called BrisConnections, beat two others for the Airport Link project and associated infrastructure, including the Northern Busway and the Airport flyover, valued in total at *$4.8 billion*.
_
If it is not a conflict of interest then it's a case of dumb and dumber and dumbest...believe that?


----------



## Julia (18 July 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Rhen, you are just such a nasty cynic, aren't you.  Ms Bligh was, in her words this evening, "just doing a favour for a friend:  watering the plants, walking the dog".  Oh really?
And they wonder why we don't hold them in high regard!


----------



## hangseng (18 July 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Simple question, simple answer:

*Absolutely not.*

Seems lost without a script to read from and the latest debacle of the LNG field in WA Kimberleys displayed Garrett has no idea. Add in the lack of foresight with alternate energy and they worry me.


----------



## Julia (21 July 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

We have two by-elections coming up as a result of the retirement of Alexander Downer and Mark Vaile.

Are there any Labor supporters here who'd care to comment on the fact that Labor is not intending to stand a candidate in these?
Heavens, the Greens and the Democrats are going to put someone up.
Why are Labor being so spineless?
Aren't they failing the electorate by not giving the voters a full democratic choice?


----------



## bvbfan (24 July 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Mayo is a blue ribbon Liberal seat from what I've heard. No chance for the ALP

Vaile's I'm guessing is a fairly safe Nationals seat.

Still think they should put someone up


----------



## Judd (24 July 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I agree they should have an ALP candidate.  It almost smacks of distain for the voters in the electorates.

An no Mr Rudd does not inspire confidence in me.  He comes across as preaching.  And his little lips purse-up as if he has been eating lemons.  All he would need is a bit of rouge on his cheeks and he be perfect for a bit part in Blackadder  III

No I didn't vote Liberal.


----------



## Euler (24 July 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Judd said:


> ...... And his little lips purse-up as if he has been eating lemons.  All he would need is a bit of rouge on his cheeks and he be perfect for a bit part in Blackadder  III .......




lol .. classic, Juddy, classic!!! ... did you write scripts for the Goons in a previous life.    

PS .. you're playing great football on the paddocks too!


----------



## Julia (24 July 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I've been trying to work out why I dislike Mr Rudd so much, given that before he became leader of the ALP I thought he had a lot of promise.  Somehow since becoming PM he seems to have turned into a sort of cardboard cutout, an automaton even.  His speech is without inflection or emotion, and most things he says sound as though they are being read from a prepared script.

Reading Crikey.com this evening, the following passage summed it up pretty well.   Does anyone else have this sense about our Leader?



> We know less than any recent Prime Ministers -- less even than stone-faced Malcolm Fraser -- about what Rudd is actually like. With Hawke, Keating and Howard, what you saw was what you got, whether it was Hawke’s messianic self-conviction, Keating’s seamless combination of thug and big-picture visionary, or Howard’s sheer, dogged ordinariness.
> 
> Perhaps it's Rudd’s newcomer status. Politically, he’s only been on the scene five minutes, and unless you’re a regular Sunrise viewer you’re unlikely to have known much about Rudd before December 2006. But even so, Rudd has a detachment, perhaps best demonstrated by his habit of studiously ploughing through his paperwork while not at the Dispatch Box in Question Time, as if to say "you guys can engage in this theatre, but some of us have real work to do."
> 
> ...


----------



## nioka (25 July 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> I've been trying to work out why I dislike Mr Rudd so much, given that before he became leader of the ALP I thought he had a lot of promise.  Somehow since becoming PM he seems to have turned into a sort of cardboard cutout, an automaton even.  His speech is without inflection or emotion, and most things he says sound as though they are being read from a prepared script.
> 
> Reading Crikey.com this evening, the following passage summed it up pretty well.   Does anyone else have this sense about our Leader?




Julia, I've been wondering why you seem to dislike him so much. Maybe you have found the answer.

I've had mixed feelings. When I look at the performance of his "crew" I am pleasantly surprised at their performance, especially Swan and Gillard. Maybe Rudd is a good organiser rather than a dominating leader as we have had in the past. He seems to have united a team behind him and maybe that is what has been lacking in the past. We are not doing too bad, as a country, considering the difficult world conditions. I doubt if there is a better alternative at this stage. He is making the hard decisions necessary with climate change, oil prices and our position in the world stage. I put him down as the quiet achiever. 

I voted labor for the first time in a fairly long life to help get rid of Howard expecting it to be a one off but I'll stick with Rudd at this stage.


----------



## Julia (25 July 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



nioka said:


> I voted labor for the first time in a fairly long life to help get rid of Howard expecting it to be a one off but I'll stick with Rudd at this stage.



Nioka, if there were to be a change of leader for the Libs would you feel differently, and if so, who would that leader be?

I had felt very disappointed that Mal Brough lost his seat in the last election because I liked his straightforward style and apparent capacity to just 'get on with it'.   But his histrionics over the Qld Presidency of the proposed new conservative party have been quite astonishing and have, as far as I'm concerned, relegated him to the ranks of the also-rans.

Would the public view Costello any more favourably if he were to make a come back to the front bench, perhaps take over the leadership?

Re your comments about the Labor team, I do have to concede several brownie points for Julia Gillard whose voice I just can't bear.  She has demonstrated good judgement and sensible comment in pretty much everything I've heard her speak about.  Much prefer her to her leader.
Nothing remotely kind to say about Mr Swan, however.  Best to just shut up about him.


----------



## nioka (26 July 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> Nioka, if there were to be a change of leader for the Libs would you feel differently, and if so, who would that leader be?




Definetely not Costello. A good brain but not a leader. Turnbull strikes me as having the potential but there is not a Liberal TEAM at the moment. They would have to define policy and be united behind it for me to be interested. I'd like to see a few more gifted independents in the house and have them unite to have the balance of power to keep the party that holds the reins in line. In other words they have neither a leader or a team.(or a policy for that matter)
The Howard years were wasted, the infrastructure necessary for this country to prosper was not put in place and time and money frittered away on grandstanding the world stage and living beyond our means.


----------



## agro (29 July 2008)

*Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*

anyone else get the feeling that our PM, kevin, seems to be out of the country more often than he is in the country?

also, the sense that he is trying to be a hero and save the world from global warming?

and seeing though Australia voted for change, we have got change, inflation (higher interest rates), union strikes (truckies), does not want to take the tax cap of petrol prices, and a whole lot of other things i could go on and on about

i think we would have been 100 times better under an experienced liberal government who had a proven record (if only Howard gave acceptance to Costello running the party) but that's how it goes.. 

 /vent - hope i don't get flamed now


----------



## fordxbt (29 July 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*

lets be honest now who wouldnt be having a tax-payed holiday if they were in his position
id start with the caribbean 'urgh, pollution of the sea, have to check this one out..'


----------



## robots (29 July 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*

hello,

yes totally agro,

look at the issues of credit crunch, when Howard went the "world" got smashed,

Howard was the WORLD leader

thankyou
robots


----------



## wayneL (29 July 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*



agro said:


> also, the sense that he is trying to be a hero and save the world from global warming?




Tilting at windmills....

...he should change his name to Don Quixote


----------



## shmi (29 July 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*

i dont think that agro was inferring that howard was a world leader or anything of the such, more that in terms of massive change that are unstoppable (ie world economic collapse) then it would be better to have experienced people in power that has really kept Aust in above average condition then take a punt on some change.


----------



## subaru69 (29 July 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*

KRudd, in one word it says so much. 

The best thing that I can say is he won a popularity poll, unfortunately it means he gets to run the country. 

The Minister for Rock Bands, when he was with Green Peace, protested a company my friend was running about some environmental thing they weren't even doing and cost them $M's in lost production. 

KRudd comes out and says Bill Henson is 2nd to a paedophile, then the case gets thrown out and Garrett says it's a victory for common sense/ freedom of speech or whatever. 

The wrong time, for the wrong causes.

ASF should set up a 'Watch' of some sort to keep the markets under control, or would we be infringing KRudd's intellectual property?

My head hurts, will stop now.


----------



## Julia (29 July 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*



agro said:


> also, the sense that he is trying to be a hero and save the world from global warming?



Yes.  I think it's more about Kevin and his CV than actually a concern for the environment etc.  He's mightily concerned about his image, both here and even more importantly, abroad.




> and seeing though Australia voted for change, we have got change, inflation (higher interest rates), union strikes (truckies), does not want to take the tax cap of petrol prices



:Not just the truckies, Agro.  Also electricity workers and Qantas engineers.
Can anyone  quote specific strikes during the Howard government?  I don't remember any but could have forgotten.  Can't help getting the feeling that the unions (as part of the ubiquitous 'working families') are thinking they can have a field day with strikes now that they have a sympathetic Labor government.  





> i think we would have been 100 times better under an experienced liberal government who had a proven record (if only Howard gave acceptance to Costello running the party) but that's how it goes..
> 
> /vent - hope i don't get flamed now



The latest poll affirms this.  But let's not get carried away about Costello.
He failed to garner the numbers to challenge Howard, has over the years shown a propensity for 'lack of ticker' and the capacity to sulk.  Suspect we are showing a fondness for him now simply because of the paucity of alternative within the Libs.


----------



## wayneL (29 July 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*

Like I said before the election. The best thing for the Liberal party was to lose.

Kev will get the blame for all the economic malaise currently infecting the world and it will give the Libs 3 years to sort themselves out sans Johnny Rotten.

If the Libs had won, they would cop the blame and spend the pursuing ten years in the wilderness... and you would have had to put up with Johnny Rotten for three more years.

If the Libs can get themselves sorted, they'll win next time again and stay for at least another three terms.

Kevo will be history.

Sorted.


----------



## nioka (29 July 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*

Ask yourself this question; Would "things" be any better if howard was still leader and in power"?

Honestly now, party politics aside.


----------



## Family_Guy (29 July 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*


----------



## subaru69 (29 July 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*



nioka said:


> Ask yourself this question; Would "things" be any better if howard was still leader and in power"?
> 
> Honestly now, party politics aside.




It's un-Australian not to bag on the Federal Premier. :


----------



## shmi (30 July 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*

hahahaha great call there, thats true, we HAVE to complain


----------



## CAB SAV (7 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*

BBC news today "Malaysian opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim is formally charged with sodomy"
Kevin Watch,watch out, your'e doing the same to most Aussies.


----------



## Prospector (7 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*

I was very hopeful of a new world order under Rudd.  I am old enough to know better.  Much of his promises have been full of rhetorical spin.


----------



## Fishbulb (7 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*

julia gillard; the punchline to the joke that is kevin rudd


----------



## white_goodman (7 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*



Fishbulb said:


> julia gillard; the punchline to the joke that is kevin rudd




a red headed lesbian with a 50 year old 'boyfriend' who is a hair dresser... not to mention her socialist stance towards workplace relations...

anyone else notice the dullards of our society were often quoted on the news saying they were voting on education and health etc... can we restrict the vote so people that dont meet a certain intelligence criteria arent allowed? DO it Do it


----------



## 2020hindsight (7 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*



white_goodman said:


> ...can we restrict the vote so people that dont meet a certain intelligence criteria arent allowed? DO it Do it





restrict the vote so people WHO don't


----------



## white_goodman (7 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*



2020hindsight said:


> restrict the vote so people WHO don't




earth to meekus i knew that ok


----------



## 2020hindsight (7 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*



white_goodman said:


> earth to meekus i knew that ok



ok, just pass the lie detector test and  you're allowed to vote then


----------



## white_goodman (8 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*



2020hindsight said:


> ok, just pass the lie detector test and  you're allowed to vote then




i dont quite understand what your getting at, must be a meet the parents joke


----------



## 2020hindsight (8 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*



white_goodman said:


> ...  anyone else notice the dullards of our society were often quoted on the news saying they were voting on education and health etc... can we restrict the vote so people that dont meet a certain intelligence criteria aren’t allowed? DO it Do it






white_goodman said:


> i don’t quite understand what your getting at, must be a meet the parents joke




white - it was a pisstake ..
you claimed/inferred that uneducated people ... in fact you called them dullards .. who (you infer) had the cheek to vote for a better education....  

that they (you infer) should not get a vote because of not meeting "a certain intelligence".

But (and I would have thought the meaning of my post obvious), you make a grammarical error.  

PS Hey, I make grammatical errors all the time - just that I don't look down my nose at people - or call them "dullards" - or deny them the vote - just because they want a better education than the (inferred) mediocre one they ended up with.


----------



## Timmy (8 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*

Is the next federal election in 2010 or 2011?

Kevin 2011 has a ring to it...

Alternatives:
Stairway to Kevin 
Kevin 24/7
Knock Knock Knockin' on Kevin's door








.


----------



## professor_frink (8 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*



Timmy said:


> Is the next federal election in 2010 or 2011?
> 
> Kevin 2011 has a ring to it...
> 
> ...




Kevin is a place on earth:bad:

And if we have a decent sized recession it could be Tears in Kevin


----------



## white_goodman (8 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*



2020hindsight said:


> white - it was a pisstake ..
> you claimed/inferred that uneducated people ... in fact you called them dullards .. who (you infer) had the cheek to vote for a better education....
> 
> that they (you infer) should not get a vote because of not meeting "a certain intelligence".
> ...




haha the confusion lies with me doing a zoolander quote backed up with an obscure southpark quote lol...

i have nothing against people trying to better themselves but why do you think people with singificantly less knowledge on matters relating to national governance, that have no desire to improve their understanding deserve a vote... all im saying is there should be a way people earn the right to vote, not jsut turning a legal age.... maby adopt a system similar to that of starship troopers where one must 'serve' to become a 'citizen' and earn the rights of a citizen


----------



## Timmy (8 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*



professor_frink said:


> Kevin is a place on earth:bad:
> 
> And if we have a decent sized recession it could be Tears in Kevin




 More please!



white_goodman said:


> i have nothing against people trying to better themselves but why do you think people with singificantly less knowledge on matters relating to national governance, that have no desire to improve their understanding deserve a vote... all im saying is there should be a way people earn the right to vote, not jsut turning a legal age.... maby adopt a system similar to that of starship troopers where one must 'serve' to become a 'citizen' and earn the rights of a citizen




The Chaser did some quick interviews with people on the street leading up to the last election, ending with the caption "This person votes". 
Actually some of them are on You Tube...
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=MaQJj1BQUiU


----------



## white_goodman (8 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*



Timmy said:


> More please!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## professor_frink (8 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*



Timmy said:


> More please!





"Kevin for everyone"

This could be Kevin
This could be Kevin
This could be  Kevin for everyone

In these days of cool reflection
You come to me and everything seems alright
In these days of cold affections
You sit by me - and everythings fine

This could be Kevin  for everyone
This world could be fed, this world could be fun
This could be Kevin for everyone
This world could be free, this world could be one

:guitar:


----------



## 2020hindsight (8 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*



white_goodman said:


> haha the confusion lies with me doing a zoolander quote backed up with an obscure southpark quote lol...
> 
> i have nothing against people trying to better themselves but why do you think people with singificantly less knowledge on matters relating to national governance, that have no desire to improve their understanding deserve a vote... all im saying is there should be a way people earn the right to vote, not jsut turning a legal age.... maby adopt a system similar to that of starship troopers where one must 'serve' to become a 'citizen' and earn the rights of a citizen




you sure there's not a bit of snobbery sneaking in there, white?

I mean, I think you'll find that people (even if they are less educated / intelligent than you obviously)  - and who still call Australia home, lol - are allowed to vote. 

be careful , you might qualify as a dullard yourself 
"dull·ard  = noun a stupid, *insensitive* person."


----------



## 2020hindsight (8 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*

PS 
I personally thought it was "justice" that the racial letterbox drop in Lindsay (Jackie Kelly's husband)  was the final straw that cost Johnny Howard his seat. 

Maxene, you were Magnificent  

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22806082-5013904,00.html


----------



## Julia (8 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*



Timmy said:


> The Chaser did some quick interviews with people on the street leading up to the last election, ending with the caption "This person votes".
> Actually some of them are on You Tube...
> http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=MaQJj1BQUiU




That was some of the funniest stuff that The Chaser did.
Oh, how I miss that programme.


----------



## white_goodman (9 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*



2020hindsight said:


> you sure there's not a bit of snobbery sneaking in there, white?
> 
> I mean, I think you'll find that people (even if they are less educated / intelligent than you obviously)  - and who still call Australia home, lol - are allowed to vote.
> 
> ...




im not claiming to be the smartest person around, but i go well for my short time on this earth....

i just think it would be a better system if people had to earn the right to vote not just turn 18


----------



## 2020hindsight (9 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*



white_goodman said:


> i just think it would be a better system if people had to earn the right to vote



ok let's have a referendum and vote on it 
........
doh, catch 22 again


----------



## Spanning Tree (10 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*

Under the Howard government we also had inflation and a reluctance to take off petrol taxes.




> i dont think that agro was inferring that howard was a world leader or anything of the such, more that in terms of massive change that are unstoppable (ie world economic collapse) then it would be better to have experienced people in power that has really kept Aust in above average condition then take a punt on some change.



With that attitude Howard never would have replaced Keating.


----------



## white_goodman (10 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*



2020hindsight said:


> ok let's have a referendum and vote on it
> ........
> doh, catch 22 again




just get a dictatorship going, Oath of Allegiance to KRudd?


----------



## numbercruncher (10 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*

Why would anyone trust the Neocons to steer us through the mayhem that they have amplified through flippant and arrogant fiscal policy ?

I agree with one point though, Krudd is away to much.....


----------



## justjohn (10 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*

Huge swing against Labor in the NTstate elections,I hope Krudd is enjoying his latest junket(olympics) because things are starting to go pear shape for our Labor states and Federal government


----------



## noco (10 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*



justjohn said:


> Huge swing against Labor in the NTstate elections,I hope Krudd is enjoying his latest junket(olympics) because things are starting to go pear shape for our Labor states and Federal government




I was hoping NT. would go anti Labor to break the coast to coast Labor Party. Under the GST constitution rules, it only needs all the states, the territories and the federal goverment to increase the GST to what ever they like.
The Feds. are talking taxation reform and imho the states are looking for more revenue thru increased GST. KRUDD and Swanie say no way. Lets wait and see.
The next state election is in WA. but with the LIBS in termoil I can't see it happening there. May be the turning point will be QLD, unfortunately that will not happen untill September 2009, in  the meantime time Labor may bring it on???????


----------



## 2020hindsight (11 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*



justjohn said:


> Huge swing against Labor in the NTstate elections,I hope Krudd is enjoying his latest junket(olympics) because things are starting to go pear shape for our Labor states and Federal government




Labor 57 votes ahead of a hung parliament  at present counting ..

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/08/11/2330552.htm?section=justin



> The vote count in the crucial Fannie Bay electorate in Darwin - in which Labor leads the Country Liberals by 57 votes - will resume this afternoon.
> 
> The outcome of the election in the Northern Territory remains in the balance and there is some chance of a hung parliament.
> 
> Labor has won 12 seats, the Country Liberal Party (CLP) has 11, one is independent and one seat, Fannie Bay, is undecided.




so jj, Country Party haven't won yet - just that they are getting closer


----------



## justjohn (11 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*

Don't get me started 20/20 ,saw that grinning 4eyed imposter at the 
Olympics last night almost put my foot through the television:swear::aufreg:Biggles Gareth Evans was a novice compared to this joker


----------



## 2020hindsight (11 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*



justjohn said:


> Don't get me started 20/20 ,saw that grinning 4eyed imposter at the Olympics last night almost put my foot through the television




so , we talking Kevin Rudd or Peter Costello now ?  

(I realise you mentioned "4-eyes".  I guess that, in Peter's case, he rarely wear glasses, but then again, he was always saying "aye aye, capn"   )


----------



## 2020hindsight (11 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*

o boy,  23% of the vote in NT apparently went the Greens (just heard on ABC)


----------



## agro (11 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*

our PM is in Korea trying to be a hero on climate change lol

who is paying for his holidays - tax payers thats right 

he is out of the country more than he is in it


----------



## 2020hindsight (11 August 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*



agro said:


> our PM is in Korea trying to be a hero on climate change lol
> who is paying for his holidays - tax payers thats right
> he is out of the country more than he is in it




:screwy:

why don't we send you instead agro - 
you're far more diplomatic.  
probably achieve twice as much ..


----------



## rhen (1 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Please refer back to the topic. 

Mr Rudd may do well to listen to a man of appropriate credentials:

_ARGUS RECOMMENDS RE-THINK
BHP's Argus criticises Australian emissions trading plan

BHP Billiton’s Don Argus has criticised the Australian Government’s plans for an emissions trading system, recommending a re-think of the alternatives.
Author: Rob Taylor
Posted:  Monday , 01 Sep 2008 

Australia's government came under pressure on Monday from the chief of BHP Billiton, the world's largest mining group, to reconsider a planned emissions trading system expected to reshape the $1 trillion economy.

As the government's emissions trade guru, academic economist Ross Garnaut, prepares this week to recommend 2020 emissions targets for the carbon-heavy economy, BHP Chairman Don Argus said the country should be looking at alternatives to an emissions trade regime expected to be among the world's toughest.

"Volatility and uncertainty is a poison for any trading system. Australians should consider and debate all the alternatives to a cap-and-trade system," Argus told a conference of industry leaders at parliament in Canberra.

"I would not leave out the carbon tax initiatives which I think other nations of the world are moving to rather than the emission trading system. That's mine, it's not the company's, view," he said.

The centre-left government is planning to begin carbon trading in 2010, forcing 1,000 companies to buy permits to cover their emissions and putting a market price on carbon to encourage firms to clean up their pollution._
http://www.mineweb.com/mineweb/view/mineweb/en/page504?oid=61172&sn=Detail


----------



## noirua (4 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Does Rudd inspire confidence?   Oh yes, best Prime Minister Australia has ever had.


----------



## wayneL (4 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noirua said:


> Does Rudd inspire confidence?   Oh yes, best Prime Minister Australia has ever had.



<sarcasm> What about "The Great Man"? </sarcasm>


----------



## CAB SAV (4 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

What didn't help the market today were the trade figures, suppossed to be up, but no, down because of the 20th century infastructure keeping commodities at the ports.
Rudd & black swann will open purse string in 2010/election year.


----------



## aacantona (4 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

K. Rudd inspires me:

1) To ask more rhetorical questions.
2) Face away from people who ask me questions 

If you have ever seen him during a session of parliament then you will know what i mean.


----------



## rhen (4 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Wednesday, August 27, 2008 at 09:24am  


Kevin Rudd, October 2007: 


I will end the blame game… the buck stops with me...

Kevin Rudd, August 2008: 

PRIME Minister Kevin Rudd has admitted Australians are worse off since he took power late last year, but says he is not to blame.. 

“The challenges we face as an economy are in part globally driven and are in part a product of some of the economic conditions we inherited - that is just the truth,” he said.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/rudd_blaming_game/


----------



## Calliope (5 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

No not really. I don't like the prim and prissy mouth and his schoolmasterish way of talking down to everyone. He won't answer questions, but spouts boring cliches. He loves being photographed with celebrities.  Those in the know say he does have some human qualities. When upset he has a foul temper and a foul mouth.


----------



## gav (5 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

No, the Milky Bar kid does not inspire me...


----------



## 2020hindsight (5 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

well, compared to Nelson, bugs bunny would inspire confidence


----------



## agro (7 September 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*

anyone else find it surprising that there is a liberal backlash among state governments now..

WA for example,

NT was a close call.. 

must be telling people something, as one would think that those who were in favour of rudd would be in favour of a labour state government too :S


----------



## Happy (7 September 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*

I noticed that when federal government is Labor, state governments gradually drift toward Liberals.

What surprised me is that this happened so soon.


----------



## Julia (7 September 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*

Yes, I was a bit surprised too.  Interesting, isn't it.   And even more interesting to see what W.A. comes up with in light of the election result.

When you think about it, though, it's not so surprising.   There is a great lack of confidence in the electorate, people are doing it tough on the whole with rising cost of living, then there's the forecast of a further 40% increase in the price of electricity, thanks to Prof. Garnaut, no sign of the sharemarket and therefore superfund balances improving, depressed property prices and a general mood of pessimism.

Gotta take it out on someone.  The gummint is an easy target.
(Not that I disagree with Labor getting thrown out.


----------



## BIG BWACULL (8 September 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*

Obviously there's minimal long term investors?


----------



## Julia (8 September 2008)

*Re: Kevin 07 or Kevin 747*



BIG BWACULL said:


> Obviously there's minimal long term investors?



In what?


----------



## Calliope (9 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

All the back-slapping and glad-handing with celebreties and world leaders cannot transform a bureaucrat into a statesman. Parkinson's Law will always kick in. You can blame the Party.


----------



## Duckman#72 (9 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



2020hindsight said:


> well, compared to Nelson, bugs bunny would inspire confidence




Off topic 2020!! If you can't build up the left without taking down the right don't post.


----------



## noirua (10 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



2020hindsight said:


> well, compared to Nelson, bugs bunny would inspire confidence



At least Bugs Bunny is a very happy bunny and come to think of it, Rudds Bunny is also a happy looking bunny.  Both have good teeth, one bites and one doesn't, out of sight that is.
Nelson is perched up on his column and is only plopped upon by passing pigeons.  Poor old Rudds bunny is continuously plopped on by all insundry, but carries on regardless.


----------



## Calliope (10 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

For a politician who would like to be able to inspire confidence and respect. one great drawback is to have the looks, mannerisms and speech patterns which make it so easy for cartoonists to lampoon him. Howard also had this handicap - in spades.


----------



## robots (12 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

hello,

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24332566-661,00.html

another one of Rudd's about to fall over the edge, next will be the NARS

thankyou

robots


----------



## Julia (12 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



robots said:


> hello,
> 
> http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24332566-661,00.html
> 
> ...




I'm surprised about this.  The article describes the accounts as being too expensive.  Does anyone know what expense is associated with them?
Seems like a wasted opportunity to me.


----------



## rhen (16 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Thought I'd pass this on...
No hard feelings...
:
Israeli doctor said, 'Medicine in my country is so advanced, we can
take a kidney out of one person, put it in another, and have him
looking for work in six weeks.'

A German doctor said, 'That's nothing! In Germany , we can take a lung
out of one person, put it in another, and have him looking for work in
four weeks.'

A Russian doctor said, 'In my country medicine is so advanced, we can
take half a heart from one person, put it in another, and have them
both looking for work in two weeks.'

The Aussie doctor, not to be outdone, said 'Hah!. We can take an
******** out of Queensland , put him in Canberra and have half the
country looking for work within twenty-four hours.’


----------



## Calliope (21 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Does Rudd have confidence in Bill Shorten? Does Shorten's move to dump his wife Deb Beale for Chloe, the daughter of the G-G indicate a move to raise his status in the labour hierarchy? Shorten plans every move he makes. His marriage to Ms Beale helped his elevation in the union movement. He rushed back from overseas to the Beaconsfield disaster to boost his image for election to parliament. 

Can Rudd trust him? His wife couldn't. Following his election he said;







> Above all others - and I can say this on Valentine's Day - I thank my wife, Deb Beale, an endlessly intelligent, supportive and loving woman. I knew this instantly from my first outing, when she agreed to visit a picket line with me.




Rudd is no fool. But it gets curioser and curioser. Rudd's wife and Quentin Bryce are great mates from way back. Would Shorten as a prospective vice-regal son-in-law fit into this cosy relationship?


----------



## 2020hindsight (21 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



2020hindsight]
well said:


> Off topic 2020!! If you can't build up the left without taking down the right don't post.




You're right duck, nelson really inspired confidence. 

Gotta feeling the approval rating of the leader of the opposition is up from 15 to 28% since Turnbull took over.   Mind you Rudd is around 58% I believe. 

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2008/09/21/galaxy-rudd-58-turnbull-28/


> Galaxy: *Rudd 58, Turnbull 28*
> Sunday, September 21, 2008 – 1:10 am, by William Bowe
> 
> Findings of a Galaxy poll published in today’s News Limited papers from a small sample of 400 (nothing on voting intention):
> ...


----------



## r34ztune (21 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

1. fuel watch - fail
2. Grocery watch - fail
2. Alcopop tax - fail
3. first home buyers account - fail
4. laptops for school kids - fail
5. 20/20 summit - fail/ still no outcome
6. apply downward pressure on inflation - fail
7. promise to ""end the blame game" - FAIL

and the list goes on.....


----------



## 2020hindsight (21 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



r34ztune said:


> 1. fuel watch - fail
> 2. Grocery watch - fail
> 2. Alcopop tax - fail
> 3. first home buyers account - fail
> ...



so who you blaming for 1 and 2 (and 2)?
as for 3, perhaps it was inflationary ? had to be / is being reviewed


> http://www.crikey.com.au/Election-2007/20071105-Rudds-first-home-owner-saver-account.html
> Instead, like the Howard Government’s economically idiotic first home owner’s grant, Rudd’s solution is to attempt to give first-home owners more money so that they can afford a deposit. The obvious problem with Rudd’s plan is, like the first-home owner's grant, gifting people money (albeit in the form of reduced taxes on savings) has a direct inflationary effect. A first home owner’s grant of $12,000 doesn’t save the purchaser any money, rather, allows the vendor to receive more when they sell their property.



4.  it is being rolled out.  try a bit of patience. 
5.  will report later this year. 
6. Downward pressure? all relative. Simply by the fact that Labor promised less than Howard means that relatively speaking he has succeeded.
7. He's mainly blaming the world economic downturn.  Do you disagree?

I mean, are we talking blatant "core and non-core promises" ?  or just a need to buckle down the hatches for a massive storm?


----------



## 2020hindsight (21 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Good article by Michelle Grattan in today's Sun Herald, (and other interstate papers) 

1. Rudd leaves for NY after tomorrow's parliamentary question time. 

2. Objectives:- 
a. discuss possible seat on the UN security council 
b. discuss global financial situation - advertise Australia's relative stability
c. global warming  
d. discuss with UN Australia's progress towards millenium goals for 2015, where Johnny Howard signed up in 2000 for less than 0.5 % of GDP.  Tim Costello pressuring for 0.7%, Rudd holding firm for 0.5%. 
e. possibly others 

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/opinion/pm-ready-to-wit-to-woo/2008/09/20/1221331280806.html


> Michells Grattan
> September 21, 2008
> 
> WHILE he is in New York for three days this week, Kevin Rudd expects to have formal meetings with about a dozen world leaders and informal ones with another 10 to 15. ...
> ...




Overseas trip to discuss international financial crisis (just as Malcolm Turnbull just did as shadow treasurer to USA.

Also Rudd and Swann did a similar trip prior to the budget, and Saul Eslake agrees gave them early warning of global downside risks - allegedly taken into account in the budget.



> *ANZ chief economist Saul Eslake backs up the usefulness of the PM's visit. "Trips Rudd and Treasurer Wayne Swan made to the US this year gave them a sense — which not too many in Australia had — of the global downside risks then. That meant the May budget wasn't as tough on spending as originally planned*.
> 
> They didn't want the budget to be seen to be contributing to an Australian downturn," Eslake said. "It will be useful if Rudd can assess whether what the US Treasury has been announcing — especially the plan for a public institution to absorb bad debts — is a turning point for the better. *If the trip also gives Rudd the chance to spread the message about the stability and strong capital base of the Australian financial system, that would be a good thing too."*
> 
> ...



.


----------



## rhen (21 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Gees 2HS,

By the time he's ready to come home and the Global Stock Market scenario, I do hope, if only for your sake, he's already paid for his return ticket.


----------



## 2020hindsight (22 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

well rhen, if he's stuck for the airfare, he could always do what my son wanted to do recently (overseas phonecall from UK)  - have his little finger cut off and sown back on as a medical guineapig.  - "but I'll make 4000 quid dad!"  

PS I feel sorry for one-dimensional people acting like sheep regurgitating what some opposition leader might say -  empty unthinking meaningless cheap political shots - "more interested in soving the world's problems than ours etc"   Even Turnbull doesn't believe that.  (even if he does say it - which I suspect we'll hear a lot of this week)


----------



## r34ztune (22 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



2020hindsight said:


> PS I feel sorry for one-dimensional people acting like sheep regurgitating what some opposition leader might say -  empty unthinking meaningless cheap political shots - "more interested in soving the world's problems than ours etc"   Even Turnbull doesn't believe that.  (even if he does say it - which I suspect we'll hear a lot of this week)




you may see it like that, and I understand your viewpoint, however to the mum and dads out there watching the news every night, perception is reality. Rudd the "prime tourist" now heads off to for his 8th trip this year, and really what has he achieved so far? A whole lot of talk and NO ACTION. 
http://optuszoo.news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=634817&_cobr=optus


----------



## Calliope (22 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



2020hindsight said:


> well rhen, if he's stuck for the airfare, he could always do what my son wanted to do recently (overseas phonecall from UK)  - have his little finger cut off and sown back on as a medical guineapig.  - "but I'll make 4000 quid dad!"




*sown* I don't think that would work. Where would they get the finger seeds?


----------



## 2020hindsight (22 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> *sown* I don't think that would work. Where would they get the finger seeds?




lol - thanks for that.  In my defence (defense?)... it's been a long time since I was shewn how to spell sewn.  

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/shewn

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/09/22/2370401.htm?section=justin



> The Opposition has attacked Mr Rudd as a "prime tourist" for the amount of time he spends out of the country but Mr Rudd says the trip is necessary.
> 
> "When you have an opportunity as the leaders of the world gather in New York for just three days to engage on what is the greatest financial crisis that we have seen for a long, long time ... it's important that in the national interest Australia is there rather than simply hoping someone sorts it out on our behalf," he said.




I understand that Afghanistan is also on the agenda - seems to me that we should be talking about a team plan here ...   or would we prefer simply to send young men to war without a plan? 

Likewise Australia on the Security Council makes sense surely.   Or we just a breeding ground for brave young soldiers when someone else clicks their fingers and wants someone to charge the machine guns?


----------



## Calliope (22 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Turnbull surely had his tongue firmly in his cheek when he said that Rudd's place was in Australia during the present economic crisis. On economic matters his presence would be as useful as t1ts on a bull. I suspect Swan and Gillard know this.


----------



## Julia (22 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Turnbull surely had his tongue firmly in his cheek when he said that Rudd's place was in Australia during the present economic crisis. On economic matters his presence would be as useful as t1ts on a bull. I suspect Swan and Gillard know this.



Yes, of course, but it was a political point worth making as Rudd climbed into the government jet yet again.
Turnbull is off to a good start so far.  He has a far better presence than Dr Nelson.


----------



## moXJO (23 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



> INDEPENDENT Senator Nick Xenophon understands why Kevin Rudd prefers to keep him waiting in Canberra when the Prime Minister has the chance to meet singer Missy Higgins in New York.
> 
> it was likely Mr Rudd would spend more time with Ms Higgins than discussing the global financial crisis with US Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson.




Rudd blaming the libs for not being able to get his policies through is a bit of a farce. Old Xenophon has been waiting a while now.


----------



## Calliope (23 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Apparently K Rudd has managed to fit a meeting with Missie Higgins into his busy schedule in the USA. He rates meeting with celebraties just as important as meeting with world leaders.


----------



## 2020hindsight (23 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



moXJO said:


> Rudd blaming the libs for not being able to get his policies through is a bit of a farce. Old Xenophon has been waiting a while now.




here's your link moxjo...
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24389520-12377,00.html

mind you, this is all typical Aussie tall poppy stuff -  
And - as if Barnaby Joyce or Nick Xenophon could achieve as much in NY as Rudd. 

But you would have thought Xenophon and someone from the Govt (needn't be Rudd maybe ?)  would have had discussions by now.  



> September 23, 2008
> INDEPENDENT Senator Nick Xenophon understands why Kevin Rudd prefers to keep him waiting in Canberra when the Prime Minister has the chance to meet singer Missy Higgins in New York.
> 
> The key balance of power senator, whose vote the Labor Government needs to pass legislation against Coalition opposition in the Senate, says he has yet to have a meeting with Mr Rudd.
> ...


----------



## moXJO (23 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



2020hindsight said:


> here's your link moxjo...
> http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24389520-12377,00.html
> 
> mind you, this is all typical Aussie tall poppy stuff -
> ...




Achieve what in NY though?? A tax funded missy higgins concert Agreed its points scoring, but there are issues that need to be dealt with here. He is just providing more ammo to the libs.


----------



## Julia (23 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Apparently K Rudd has managed to fit a meeting with Missie Higgins into his busy schedule in the USA. He rates meeting with celebraties just as important as meeting with world leaders.



And maybe a repeat visit to the strip club?


----------



## 2020hindsight (23 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/09/23/2372081.htm?section=justin


> PM 'not meeting' Missy Higgins
> Posted 25 minutes ago
> 
> Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's office has denied reports he plans to meet with Australian singer Missy Higgins while in New York.
> ...



never let the facts get in the way of a good story


----------



## Calliope (24 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

So Mr Turnbull doesn't know whether the Swans or the Roosters play AFL. Mr Rudd on the other hand pretends an interest in sports in order to be photographed with sporting celebrities. He says he is a supporter of the "Brissie" broncos, although he isn't quite sure whether they are the Brissie broncos or the Queensland broncos.

He missed a good photo op at the Brownlow awards. But it would have been unwise to be photographed with so much bare flesh.


----------



## 2020hindsight (24 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I believe Xenophon (and Fielding) passed the luxury car tax LCT . 

and the relaxation of the Medicare surcharge (tax reimbursement of a sort) looks like it might be ok as well, albeit amended.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/09/24/2372820.htm



> The Government initially wanted to increase the threshold for singles to $100,000, but could not get the bill through the Senate.
> 
> It has now compromised and is proposing a threshold of $75,000.
> 
> ...




Nick Xenophon may not have spoken with Rudd yet (as he said yesterday), but looks like he speaks to ministers fairly regularly


----------



## Calliope (25 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Apparently there's a contest between our Kev and Sarah Palin to see who can meet the most celebrities at the UN meeting.


----------



## r34ztune (25 September 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Rudd's promises so far...
http://getup.org.au/promisewatch/policy?value=Environment
as you can see 247 made, 5 kept so far, hmmm I wonder how many he can keep?


----------



## MrBurns (26 September 2008)

*Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

Rudd will be speaking to the UN General Assembly at 6 today when the house is almost empty, he changed his topic from climate change (so important at thsi exact time) to the financial crises (another topic he knows nothing about but can go on for hours about) and then he will hurry home to be here in time for the AFL grand final.

What a tosser.


----------



## Calliope (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you ?*



MrBurns said:


> Rudd will be speaking to the UN General Assembly at 6 today when the house is almost empty, he changed his topic from climate change (so important at thsi exact time) to the financial crises (another topic he knows nothing about but can go on for hours about) and then he will hurry home to be here in time for the AFL grand final.
> 
> What a tosser.




They have heard about his ability to put people to sleep with his boring cliches and bureaucratic waffle, so they stayed away.


----------



## white_goodman (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

Get Malcolm in pronto


----------



## MrBurns (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

I was impressed with Rudd to begin with but now he just annoys me.

All talk no action, in a huge hurry to attend all the functions he can fit into his dance book.

He's really enjoying himself, there's no hint of concern or grasping of the gravity of situations just a robotic response to everything with no follow up.

And Swann ???????????? sheeeeesh ...........you just have to look at him to know with absolute certainty that he couldn't balance the books at an end of year cricket club BBQ.

Looks like AU will be going nowhere positive until the next election.


----------



## Julia (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



> =MrBurns;340876........ just a robotic response to everything with no follow up.



"Robotic".   Thanks, Mr Burns.   I've been trying to work out just what it is that irritates me so much about Mr Rudd, and it's that exactly.  And the other expression from someone on this thread - 'prissy'.  Don't really think he is actually prissy but the voice is.


----------



## Calliope (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

You are looking at a one-term prime minister. If this man has any wit or charisma I have seen no evidence of it.  We see countless pictures of him laughing and being jolly with world leaders and celebrities. He loves bathing in their reflected glory. Take him out of this atmosphere and he is a man of straw.

After all these years as a bureaucrat and a politician, what has he actually done? Nothing!

Did somebody say Fuelwatch? That can now be disbanded. Google does it better.


----------



## MrBurns (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



> 'prissy'. Don't really think he is actually prissy but the voice is.





Another one is that "some say" he looks like an old lesbian.

Well that he may but it's his embracing of the pomp and self importance with that really irritates, I don't think we'll get anything out of him except the standard responses.

He and his wife are having a ball while Rome burns.


----------



## Nyden (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

How dare you all speak ill of Rudd; why he ought to go back on Rove and defend himself! 

The guy's just a book of one-liners, no substance to him at all - and how are the opinion polls lately? I haven't had a chance to look them up.


----------



## Green08 (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

I heard him on the radio this morning from the US saying it was imperative that this package is put through for global stability immediately.  I agree with Mr Burns that he is out of his depth on this issue.  

Many realist and I'm sure there are quite a few on AFS can see it is not going to fix the problem which will eventually leak out - the bandages must be running out.

There are some very pressing issues does any one remember chaiten blowing up? I had a look and it is still throwing ash and water vapour, the area is on red alter still.  What happed to the people?  

He is out of touch with his family's Millions - Turnbull's millions - Bush's Millions - McCain's married into millions etc.   Nothing wrong with money but a reality check would be good.


----------



## MrBurns (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



> He is out of touch with his family's Millions - Turnbull's millions - Bush's Millions - McCain's married into millions etc. Nothing wrong with money but a reality check would be good.




I think Turnbull is different in as much as he can run a company which after all is what a country is, 
He knows what to do to identify and fix problems and has the brains to source advice from his many associates, whereas Rudd is a puppet type character with no discernible depth or proven ability.

Let's face it Howard lost the election Rudd didn't win it.


----------



## pepperoni (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

Agree with everything on this thread about Rudd but Turnbull will never be PM nor would he make a good one.  Abbott or Hockey of the current bunch and Im sticking to it.

As for Rudd, as useless as he is, Im glad he is in instead of Howard ... its like having a caretaker gov which is OK while the world fin system crumbles ... really no time for rash decisions so Im happy with our Claytons PM.

Work choices on the back of their bubble promoting type government would look really retarded.  Look after the battlers and they will look after you.

Plus Rudd makes for funny rove skits.


----------



## MrBurns (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



> really no time for rash decisions so I'm happy with our Claytons PM.




With whats ahead I think we need a strong leader not an empty vessel.


----------



## pepperoni (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> With whats ahead I think we need a strong leader not an empty vessel.




As long as the strong leader isnt steering the ship into icebergs .. and frankly i cant think of one I would trust not to right now.

Everone is out of their depth right now and not least our pollies.

Id be just as happy with a cardboard cut out so might as well let this silly man have his jet setting fun.


----------



## MrBurns (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



pepperoni said:


> As long as the strong leader isnt steering the ship into icebergs .. and frankly i cant think of one I would trust not to right now.
> 
> Everone is out of their depth right now and not least our pollies.
> 
> Id be just as happy with a cardboard cut out so might as well let this silly man have his jet setting fun.




Turnbull understands finance and the way the world works, he would be far better as leader now than Rudd who is weak and wouldn't know if a tram was up him til the bell rang, same goes for Swann.


----------



## Green08 (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

Mr Burns I think your personal line

"What good is money if it can't inspire terror in your fellow man? "

May very well come to pass


----------



## Calliope (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

I just listened to Rudd addressing the UN General Assembly. He went crook on them for not eliminating world poverty. He is prepared to lead and show them the way. And why not. He also advised them how to solve the world's financial problems. These foolish people probably want to set up enquiries. Rudd wants action now.


----------



## MrBurns (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Green08 said:


> Mr Burns I think your personal line
> 
> "What good is money if it can't inspire terror in your fellow man? "
> 
> May very well come to pass




Green08, it's already happening.


----------



## MrBurns (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Calliope said:


> I just listened to Rudd addressing the UN General Assembly. He went crook on them for not eliminating world poverty. He is prepared to lead and show them the way. And why not. He also advised them how to solve the world's financial problems. These foolish people probably want to set up enquiries. Rudd wants action now.




Rudd wants action now ?????????????/

Than he better morph into a *real *man and fast.


----------



## prawn_86 (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Calliope said:


> I just listened to Rudd addressing the UN General Assembly. He went crook on them for not eliminating world poverty. He is prepared to lead and show them the way. And why not. He also advised them how to solve the world's financial problems. These foolish people probably want to set up enquiries. Rudd wants action now.




LOL, Rudd is the king of setting up enquiries, im sure he will be all for that.

What action has he actually carried out in his near one year in office? Apart from all the reviews etc which have been set up....

All pollies are the same though, absolutely useless, hamstrung by an inefficient system and personal greed


----------



## nioka (26 September 2008)

*Rudd - I'm happy with his progress*

Let's hear from those happy that Rudd is handling the affairs of the country during trying times in a manner most likely to maintain the lifestyle to which we have been accustomed. He has taken the reins at a difficult time. He inherited a position where the previous government had sold off most of the farm and allowed the infrastructure behind a producing nation to lag the development necessary for prosperity.  He is much more credible than the alternative group. He gets my approval so far. 

Our new labor member is much more accessable and active than any of the nationals that represented me for the last 50 years.


----------



## pepperoni (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd. I'm happy with his progress.*

Im might start a thread "Rudd Im happy with no progress" ;-)

There are some positives for Rudd:

- GWB hasnt made fun of how ugly he is as he did Howard.

- He hasnt done the worst cricket bowl ever caught on camera (argh I hope I can forget that one day).


----------



## 2020hindsight (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd. I'm happy with his progress.*

No question he'd done a brilliant job. 

And even Malcolm Turnbull would have to admit that his (Malcolm's) snipes at Rudd are full of political insincerity.

I mean the other day he admitted "Look, I agree that Rudd should go overseas and meet these leaders on these matters - but ... WHY THIS WEEK?"

lol - answer might be that that's when they are all these in NY Malcolm - or would you prefer he turn up when there's only an outgoing (as in lame duck) George W Bush to talk to


----------



## gfresh (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

There seems to be a bit of hope that Rudd will be only one term, but that would be extremely unlikely. 

There has only been one single term Government in the last 58 years, and that was back when Whitlam got chucked out..

The opinion polls are still supporting Rudd as preferred prime minister, and the only real anger I see day to day is expressed on investment forums.. so you've got him until about at least 2013 :  

Unless the Government had a monumental stuff up from here on in (which according to the general public *isn't* the case, sorry), he's here for a while.


----------



## pepperoni (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

Seeming a bit cooler latey since Rudd signed kyoto.   There is action for you. :  

Ill bet the Rudd haters will say its just a coincidence.


----------



## 2020hindsight (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd. I'm happy with his progress.*

PS It's gonna get messy with two threads on this, one for and one against  -  mods, how about combining them and making it a poll?


----------



## IFocus (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd. I'm happy with his progress.*

I think next year will be the test for Rudd 

Interesting the focus on Rudd when I think the real strength or weakness of Labor will be the front bench.

Labor is not quite as obsessive about the leader cult thing that Costello spoke about confronting the Libs.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



pepperoni said:


> Seeming a bit cooler latey since Rudd signed kyoto.   There is action for you. :
> 
> Ill bet the Rudd haters will say its just a coincidence.




Lets hope he scores tonight, he's such a boring pigeon toed chook.

gg


----------



## Green08 (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> Green08, it's already happening.




What's next bloodcurdling, ghastly, frisly gruesome, macabre, trepitdation we are reaching Steven King novel: If Jack Nicholson is involved then the above might apply.


----------



## moXJO (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd. I'm happy with his progress.*

It’s still very early to call good or bad yet. Kyoto was nothing but spin and the ab sorry day not much better. But as long as progress is made in health, education infrastructure then I'll just poke fun at him every now and then. Hard to be a labor fan when you live in NSW


----------



## pacestick (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd - I'm happy with his progress*

I think its to early to make a rational decision the problem is to many people will respond out of their pre  judices  i.e. they have prejudice either for or against due to their political allegiance. I have always felt that the first year of a new government they are still dealing with  and have the results of the previous mobs policies so that many of the things that occur are not the result of the new government but the fading echoes of the previous


----------



## Calliope (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

I am indebted to 2020 for his advice;
'Never let the truth get in the way of a good story'. 

Before boarding his plane to return home Mr Rudd was asked whether his trip was successful. 

He said he was very satisfied with his rousing speech, which he wrote himself, before the General Assembly, but was disappointed that the few members who were there went to sleep.

He also said that actually the main purpose of the trip was to set up a photo op with Chrissy Higgins. However this had to be dropped at the last moment when he received a text message from his plant on ASF that some posters were ridiculing his attempt to be a cool dude.

Anyway he said, there will be many photo ops and TV footage at the footy tomorrow. Although an avid AFL supporter (since last weekend) he hadn't yet been briefed on who was playing who.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Calliope said:


> I am indebted to 2020 for his advice;
> 'Never let the truth get in the way of a good story'.
> 
> Before boarding his plane to return home Mr Rudd was asked whether his trip was successful.
> ...




lol

the awful thing is , it probably is true Calliope.

gg


----------



## 2020hindsight (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd - I'm happy with his progress*

I'd call this a good week's work (despite the jealousy evident in the comments from the Libs)  

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/09/26/2374940.htm


> Rudd calls for tougher world financial regulations
> By Online parliamentary correspondent Emma Rodgers
> 
> Posted 3 hours 20 minutes ago
> ...






> International security
> Mr Rudd also urged other countries to ratify the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty and said Australia is committed to abolishing nuclear weapons.
> 
> ..."We *remain concerned that states such as Iran and North Korea continue to defy the international community* and fail to comply with demands for a full declaration and a an accounting of their nuclear programs," he said. ...






> Clean coal
> As expected Mr Rudd also extended an invitation to governments around the world to become involved in Australia's Global Carbon Capture and Storage Institute, which will begin work early next year.
> 
> Mr Rudd said solutions must be found in order to reduce the world's dependence on producing energy from coal.
> ...


----------



## nioka (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd. I'm happy with his progress.*



2020hindsight said:


> PS It's gonna get messy with two threads on this, one for and one against  -  mods, how about combining them and making it a poll?




This one was necessary to balance the obvious bias from a number of members. I would expect a poll to be against Rudd on this forum where unbridled capitalism is the dominating attitude. Combining the two will result in more personal abuse that genuine contributions. The minority view needs a soap box too.


----------



## trading_rookie (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

Dudd - first he dazzled us with all kids get a computer, not only didn't it eventuate but he also screwed up the tax system for those workers who were claiming a notebook for their kids via salary sacrifice. Remember he's promise of using KPI's and 'memorising' us with what it stood for and meant, and how regularly he wanted to rate the performance of his government...what's happened??? 

Who can forget Dudd, social and religious groups having a whinge pre-election about how ppl are working longer hours and spending no time with their families...has anything changed? Except the fact that some of his overworked staffers have left...


----------



## Julia (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd. I'm happy with his progress.*



nioka said:


> This one was necessary to balance the obvious bias from a number of members. I would expect a poll to be against Rudd on this forum where unbridled capitalism is the dominating attitude. Combining the two will result in more personal abuse that genuine contributions. The minority view needs a soap box too.



Disagree.   It's too messy now.  I'd prefer a single thread, maybe entitled, "Our Politicians", to include the existing ones on Rudd (why couldn't you have made your comment in this thread on the existing thread on Rudd, Nioka?), the one on Turnbull, and - if it's still relevant - the one on Costello.

To say that you "would expect a poll to be against Rudd on this forum...."
isn't quite reasonable.   There have been plenty of pro-Rudd comments initially, but they seem to have dwindled as we see more of him.
e.g. I was all for him in the beginning, but now regard him as focused on talk fests, gestures and posturing.

And if you imagine that having a separate thread praising Mr Rudd will eliminate any abuse, you're dreaming.


----------



## Julia (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Calliope said:


> I am indebted to 2020 for his advice;
> 'Never let the truth get in the way of a good story'.
> 
> Before boarding his plane to return home Mr Rudd was asked whether his trip was successful.
> ...




Just had a fine laugh, Calliope.  Thank you.
Mr Rudd might like to hire you in his P.R. Department.


----------



## justjohn (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd - I'm happy with his progress*

You gotta be happy that he's always out of the country:bananasmi


----------



## justjohn (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> Another one is that "some say" he looks like an old lesbian.
> 
> Well that he may but it's his embracing of the pomp and self importance with that really irritates, I don't think we'll get anything out of him except the standard responses.
> 
> He and his wife are having a ball while Rome burns.




Geez I'm glad you didn't say ,''He is fiddling with his wife while Rome burns''


----------



## nioka (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd. I'm happy with his progress.*



Julia said:


> (why couldn't you have made your comment in this thread on the existing thread on Rudd, Nioka?), .



 The existing thread, or the one that inspired this is crude, demeaning and very one sided. Maybe I am trying harder for the wooden spoon. In Turnbull's words "that is for others to decide".


----------



## 2020hindsight (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd. I'm happy with his progress.*



nioka said:


> This one was necessary to balance the obvious bias from a number of members. I would expect a poll to be against Rudd on this forum where unbridled capitalism is the dominating attitude. Combining the two will result in more personal abuse that genuine contributions. The minority view needs a soap box too.



on second thoughts, I agree.


----------



## Nashezz (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd. I'm happy with his progress.*



Julia said:


> .............
> e.g. I was all for him in the beginning, but now regard him as focused on talk fests, gestures and posturing.
> .........




Why is that Julia? Isn't it wise to get wise people to discuss/debate (and learn) an issue before issuing policy? Surely this is a way to bring forward good policy instead of ****e policy that needs to be dismantled later (eg 'work choices')?

What are these 'gestures' and posturing you speak of? Sounds like what certain elements of the RW media would carp on about but I hardly think it is based on any fact. Some may view Kyoto and saying sorry as pure gesture/posture but there is a hell of a lot of people that appreciated said gestures, myself included. What are the other gestures that are meaningless or duplicitous to you?


----------



## prawn_86 (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd. I'm happy with his progress.*



Nashezz said:


> What are the other gestures that are meaningless or duplicitous to you?




Just the first one that springs to mind:

That new carbon capture institute thingo.

Aus has one of the highest rates of sun per day in the world and a lot of unusable land. Why not build a ****e load of solar or wind power out in the deserts. Or those "heat farms" with the flat glass panels for the air to heat and spin a turbine. Why not do what we can now rather then setting up something that MIGHT be usuable in 10 yrs time.

Even better do both...


----------



## moXJO (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd. I'm happy with his progress.*



Nashezz said:


> Some may view Kyoto and saying sorry as pure gesture/posture but there is a hell of a lot of people that appreciated said gestures, myself included. What are the other gestures that are meaningless or duplicitous to you?




How about the changing of the solar rebate threshold. Talk about killing off solar installations in one hit. What happened to the supposed supporting of green initiatives?

Petrol watch website is another that springs to mind seems all the petrol stations were using it to base their prices on more then the public.

Was their a grocery watch as well?

 My problem with all the reviews is that they will come to a conclusion that the govt doesn’t like so never implemented


----------



## agro (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd - I'm happy with his progress*

Rudd is trying to act like a hero and he is more times out of the country than in the country..

where is he now? New York? did he stop by the Bronx too


----------



## IFocus (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd. I'm happy with his progress.*



prawn_86 said:


> Just the first one that springs to mind:
> 
> That new carbon capture institute thingo.




Oz has megga coal exports also has megga coal fired power carbon capture is essential for this to continue until the next solution and if I remember Smurf covered the solar thing pretty well on another thread.


----------



## nioka (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd. I'm happy with his progress.*



moXJO said:


> How about the changing of the solar rebate threshold. Talk about killing off solar installations in one hit. What happened to the supposed supporting of green initiatives?



 The installers of solar panels don't seem to have a problem with the rebate threshold. They can't keep up with the demand from what I hear.


----------



## Calliope (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

Mr Rudd is believed to have also said;

Alexander Downer was right. Those UN guys are the biggest bunch of wankers I have ever come across. And to think I wasted all that speechwriting and oratory on them.

As for that smartarse Robert Hill going to sleep during my rousing speech. We'll see how smart he is as the next Ambassador to Harare. 

However it is not all bad. My plant in ASF tells me that I got good notices Downunder. In fact he wrote them himself.


----------



## agro (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

all i can say is that for our PM he doesn't represent us very well

he doesn't come across confident like howard was

o well too bad if u voted labour caus i didn't


----------



## CanOz (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> I think Turnbull is different in as much as he can run a company which after all is what a country is,




Turnbull is cut from the same cloth as Paulson, and yet he is on the verge of burying the US citizens in debt like the world has never seen.

Cheers,


Steve


----------



## r34ztune (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

Rudd should be concentrating on his "own backyard", rather that trying to be a big player on the international scene. He is quite embarassing and eccentric the way he acts in public. I doubt any other world leader takes him seriously, because they are more concerned about their own people's economic prosperity, unlike Rudd.


----------



## 2020hindsight (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

I'm guessing that a lot of you blokes critical of Rudd
a) didn't agree with the "Sorry" statement
b) didn't agree with signing Kyoto (and all the opportunities that will flow from that) ..

Sorry chaps - but your opinions on those fronts are now irrelevant - history moves on.. You've gotta learn to be better at losing ... 

We move on to other points where they (also) have a mandate...
c) toning back Workchoice.  
etc


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



r34ztune said:


> Rudd should be concentrating on his "own backyard", rather that trying to be a big player on the international scene. He is quite embarassing and eccentric the way he acts in public. I doubt any other world leader takes him seriously, because they are more concerned about their own people's economic prosperity, unlike Rudd.




I'd have to agree. He is an embarrassment. Such an earnest godbotherer , he takes forever to get the end of each sermon.

gg


----------



## r34ztune (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



2020hindsight said:


> I'm guessing that a lot of you blokes critical of Rudd
> a) didn't agree with the "Sorry" statement
> b) didn't agree with signing Kyoto (and all the opportunities that will flow from that) ..
> 
> ...




are they Rudd's greatest achievments so far?
a) agree, however purely a political symbolic gesture, in reality nothing has changed?
b) agree, the easy part is done, now Rudd has to implement measures without sending this country into recession, I suppose we can say "watch this space"


----------



## Calliope (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

Poor old 2020. I wondered when you would take take the bait. You weren't making any headway on the pro Rudd thread, so you thought you would muddy the waters on this one. Naturally you love Rudd, you have so much in common. All waffle and no substance. His UN address that you loved so much went over like a lead balloon.

But you are right about one thing. History has moved on. It's all downhill for Rudd from now on. He is starting to look pathetic.


----------



## Nashezz (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

you are so funny Calliope.

You accuse others of waffling with no substance - have a look at your own posts. They are full of nothing useful or intelligent, just biased and ignorant slander. Pipe down.


----------



## Nashezz (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd - I'm happy with his progress*



agro said:


> Rudd is trying to act like a hero and he is more times out of the country than in the country..
> 
> where is he now? New York? did he stop by the Bronx too




Like any PM Agro - Rudd annoys you cause you are a Liberal voter as you have stated on another thread.  Since there were a number of world leaders in the US at the same time as Rudd I assume you have the same gripe with them? And pursuing closer ties whether they be trade/defence or other with countries is not a worthwhile pursuit of a PM?


----------



## Calliope (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Nashezz said:


> you are so funny Calliope.
> 
> You accuse others of waffling with no substance - have a look at your own posts. They are full of nothing useful or intelligent, just biased and ignorant slander. Pipe down.




A case of the pot calling the kettle black. And 2020 doesn't need your help.


----------



## fordxbt (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

K Rudd, what is the meaning of?

_1.  krudd  
Similar to crud. 
A substitute for the word crap, or something described as crusty and nasty.  _

_2.  krudd   
Alternative name for the leader of the Australian communist party (aka Labor Party) and Prime Minister of Australia, Kevin Rudd. 
_


----------



## pepperoni (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

the only thing more boring than rudd himself is zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Ooops where was I.


----------



## nioka (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd - I'm happy with his progress*



agro said:


> Rudd is trying to act like a hero and he is more times out of the country than in the country..
> 
> where is he now? New York? did he stop by the Bronx too




 That is where the great Lib leader, Malcom No1, lost his pants isn't it?

 Rudd may give them the shirt off his back but I'll bet he comes back with his pants.


----------



## Julia (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd. I'm happy with his progress.*



Nashezz said:


> Why is that Julia? Isn't it wise to get wise people to discuss/debate (and learn) an issue before issuing policy? Surely this is a way to bring forward good policy instead of ****e policy that needs to be dismantled later (eg 'work choices')?



In principle, yes.   But endless talking is empty.  Mr Rudd is behaving like the bureaucrat he is, overlaid with his 'diplomat' smooth robotic delivery.

Btw I am a swinging voter.  Have voted for both Labor and the Libs, federally and in State elections.   Depends on the personalities, stated beliefs and policies of each at the time.




> What are these 'gestures' and posturing you speak of? Sounds like what certain elements of the RW media would carp on about but I hardly think it is based on any fact. Some may view Kyoto and saying sorry as pure gesture/posture but there is a hell of a lot of people that appreciated said gestures, myself included. What are the other gestures that are meaningless or duplicitous to you?



OK, Kyoto:   would have been meaningful once, but by the time he ratified it was outdated and meaningless.  To the critics:  an empty gesture:  to the faithful supporters, the keeping of a promise.  Depends entirely on where you're coming from.

Sorry Day:  oh dear, so much emotion at the time.  It was going to cure everything.  Just show me one aboriginal person whose life is better as a result.

The 2020 Summit:  a feel good exercise.  Those who were invited were thrilled, regarded it as their opportunity to personally convey their vision for Australia to the Prime Minister.   In the event a lot of words were cast about, many promises were made, people felt 'heard', 'listened to' and believed they had done their bit for solving all the nation's difficulties.   Now all these months later, tell me how many actions have resulted from this event?
Imo it was a populist stunt designed to have the population think, oh wow, Kevin 07 is a man of the people.  He is going to govern by true democracy, giving us all our chance to contribute to the policy making of the country.
Yeah, right.

And now there is going to be another summit, this time for heads of local government.  We already have the heads of local government meeting.
It is to be a one day affair.  With 100 or more attendees.  With Kevin 07 smiling beatifically over the gathering.  They will all go away feeling good and are all very excited to be going.   Is there any expectation of anything actually happening as a result?  I doubt it.

The "Education Revolution".  Remember?  the one where every student was to have their own computer.  They're still waiting. 

The solar panel rebate plan:  Moxjo has adequately responded here.
And to whoever said the suppliers were run off their feet, that's not what I heard via ABC News.   The spokesperson for the suppliers (this was about two weeks ago) said they were receiving good orders but for much smaller panels than previously. Overall bottom line is well down.

And then there's his obvious egocentricity in feeling the need to be rushing about the world, spreading his vision to all, regardless of whether they are interested, viz his suggestion for a new Asia/Pacific body.  The silence from the other countries on that was breathtaking.
And I genuinely felt sorry for him delivering his brilliant address (stating the obvious about the financial crisis) to the UN in recent hours.  The chamber was all but empty and apparently the few people attending went to sleep!

But I should qualify the above by saying that I do think he was right to go to New York/Washington in this visit.   Not for the original reason, but to be there amongst discussions of the biggest financial crisis for decades.

So all up, I'm not intrinsically anti-Labor.   But Kevin 07 just doesn't do it for me.   I actually prefer the vocally challenged Ms Gillard who seems to make comments which are to the point and pretty much gets on with the job.
Never thought I'd say that!


----------



## Calliope (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd - I'm happy with his progress*



Nashezz said:


> Like any PM Agro - Rudd annoys you cause you are a Liberal voter as you have stated on another thread.  Since there were a number of world leaders in the US at the same time as Rudd I assume you have the same gripe with them? And pursuing closer ties whether they be trade/defence or other with countries is not a worthwhile pursuit of a PM?




And you love Rudd because you are a leftie. And did you notice that nearly all the world leaders were absent from the chamber when Rudd addressed the assembly. Most of those who stayed dozed off. You and  he have one thing in common. You are both boring.


----------



## Calliope (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd - I'm happy with his progress*



nioka said:


> That is where the great Lib leader, Malcom No1, lost his pants isn't it?
> 
> Rudd may give them the shirt off his back but I'll bet he comes back with his pants.




Fraser lost his pants in Memphis. He was staying at a seedy hotel frequented by prostitutes. He wasn't a great Liberal leader. He has now reverted to type and leans more to the left than Rudd.


----------



## Calliope (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd - I'm happy with his progress*

Julia, that was a very reasonable, rational and well structured post  However I would be very surprised if any sensible argument could penetrate the thick bigoted hide of people like Nashezz, who have big chips on their shoulders.

I do however agree with your approach, i.e. don't argue with them. Just try to put them on the right path.


----------



## Macquack (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



CanOz said:


> Turnbull is cut from the same cloth as Paulson, and yet he is on the verge of burying the US citizens in debt like the world has never seen.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> ...




Exactly.

The irony is that both these guys are prime examples of the excesses of Wall Street that created the crisis that taxpayers have to bailout. 

Turnbull and Paulson are both ex-partners of Goldman Sachs with their estimated wealth at $133 million and $700 million respectively. 

Paulson is probably negotiating a 2% trailing commission for himself on the $700 Billion bailout plan.


----------



## Greg71 (26 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd - I'm happy with his progress*

I vote by whoever looks the nicest on the signs.


----------



## Nashezz (27 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd. I'm happy with his progress.*



Julia said:


> In principle, yes.   But endless talking is empty.  Mr Rudd is behaving like the bureaucrat he is, overlaid with his 'diplomat' smooth robotic delivery.
> 
> Btw I am a swinging voter.  Have voted for both Labor and the Libs, federally and in State elections.   Depends on the personalities, stated beliefs and policies of each at the time.
> 
> ...




Thanks Julia, I appreciate the response, and despite Calliopes 'comment' I also think your response was great. A few things though

- maybe Kyoto was outdated but like many people I felt that we had to do it in order to have any meaningful say in the world on the environment and emissions and any future schemes. Sitting back and telling others to do something first when we are one of the worst per capita polluters (as the US is still doing) just didn't cut it for most people, myself included.

- 'Sorry' was never meant to 'fix' the social problems of aboriginals. I don't think anyone claimed it would. They (aboriginal people, or at least their vocal representatives) wanted some acknowledgement that they had been greatly wronged in the past by the government of Australia. John Howard didnt do it, Rudd did. That is all it was meant to be. Generations of social issues were hardly going to be fixed overnight by doing it and I would be surprised if you could find an aboriginal who thought it would. I would also be surprised if you could find an aboriginal person who didn't think that saying 'sorry' wasn't a fantastic thing. How is that than a meaningless posture?

Education revolution will take time and money - the second of which may be more difficult to come by with the current economic situations - at least if they continue to be financially prudent. I would be prepared to wait till the end of his term before I judge him 9 months into it whether he has had any success with this.

I agree that putting a means on the solar rebate plan has not given the desired result. It is a shame though that people that obviously are doing alright can't put their own money into it, instead of relying on a gov't handout.

I don't think its egocentricity that has him rushing around the world but we will have to agree to disagree there. I believe he is doing his best to try and form relationships with people that will help him in his agenda of getting accord on emissions, trade and strategic partnerships. Depends who you want to believe, but everything I have seen or heard about Rudd is that he is intelligent and hardworking - that hardly equates with the egocentric timewaster some sections of the media would have you believe he has suddenly become. Unfortunately he does not have the natural charm and wit of someone like M. Turnball, and unfortunately I think people are too easily swayed by fairly inconsequential stuff like that.


Calliope - as I said in another thread, you are an idiot with nothing useful to add but slander and unmitigated bias. Go away. Please.


----------



## Nashezz (27 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Calliope said:


> A case of the pot calling the kettle black. And 2020 doesn't need your help.




Wasn't trying to help 2020, I know he is capable of defending himself. I merely wanted to point out a fact to you. Did you finish high school Calliope?


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (27 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Nashezz said:


> Wasn't trying to help 2020, I know he is capable of defending himself. I merely wanted to point out a fact to you. Did you finish high school Calliope?




Lighten up Nash mate. We are a wide church with differing views. 

I only know a dozen or so multimillionaires and only one of those finished high school. By the way he's a doctor  and I wouldn't send him to the local store to buy a pack of cigarettes, he'd get the change wrong. Sorry if your a doctor Nash mate.

gg


----------



## Calliope (27 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Nashezz said:


> Wasn't trying to help 2020, I know he is capable of defending himself. I merely wanted to point out a fact to you. Did you finish high school Calliope?




Did you finish primary school? 
I'm beginning to see what your problem is. But really Nash you shouldn't  be jealous of anybody else's scholastic achievements. For those who want to improve themselves adult education is freely available in this country. And there are many good libraries.


----------



## 2020hindsight (27 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Calliope said:


> Poor old 2020. I wondered when you would take take the bait. You weren't making any headway on the pro Rudd thread, so you thought you would muddy the waters on this one. Naturally you love Rudd, you have so much in common. All waffle and no substance. His UN address that you loved so much went over like a lead balloon.
> 
> But you are right about one thing. History has moved on. It's all downhill for Rudd from now on. He is starting to look pathetic.



Hell Calliope
I post here - and I post there.
You post here and you post there.

Thing is, in the final analysis, you make a post like this one...

and you wonder (I assume) why you don't have any cred.  

or maybe you just don't care whether you have cred or not.    Too busy buzzing around in your dodgem car sideswiping, moving on, sideswiping, moving on etc.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (27 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



2020hindsight said:


> Hell Calliope
> I post here - and I post there.
> You post here and you post there.
> 
> ...


----------



## 2020hindsight (27 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd - I'm happy with his progress*

The first big slipup, alias challenge is the "Computers to NSW schools" matter  
But even there, I for one am prepared to say they are trying to address a seriously major problem (education), and the show isn't over till the lady nails on the horny helmet etc.  

Challenge as against failure etc.



nioka said:


> This one was necessary to balance the obvious bias from a number of members. I would expect a poll to be against Rudd on this forum where unbridled capitalism is the dominating attitude. Combining the two will result in more personal abuse that genuine contributions. The minority view needs a soap box too.




PS nioka, you are 100% right, lol.
There is so much rampant acid on the other thread, I'm not sure I can be bothered reading it lol.  Good idea to have a separate meeting area with its own banner - a bit more objective even (imo anyway).


----------



## Calliope (27 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd. I'm happy with his progress.*



Nashezz said:


> Calliope - as I said in another thread, you are an idiot with nothing useful to add but slander and unmitigated bias. Go away. Please.




And as I said in the same thread, I now know what you problem is.  However I am willing to make a truce with you. if you control your nastiness, I will stop treating you like an idiot.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (27 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd - I'm happy with his progress*



2020hindsight said:


> The first big slipup, alias challenge is the "Computers to NSW schools" matter
> But even there, I for one am prepared to say they are trying to address a seriously major problem (education), and the show isn't over till the lady nails on the horny helmet etc.
> 
> Challenge as against failure etc.
> ...





trying aint good enough.

folk elect labor to "try"

they elect the liberals to deliver.

gg


----------



## Calliope (27 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

Yes G-G you are right. I guess we all get our kicks in different ways. It is a pity it has to be so muddied by whether we lean left or right. In the process we lose sight of who are the real baddies.


----------



## justjohn (27 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



pepperoni said:


> the only thing more boring than rudd himself is zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
> 
> Ooops where was I.




Pepperoni , you must have been listening to Rudds UN speach to have ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz like that .Imagine how boring it would have liveI feel really sorry for those poor unfortunates who attended ,they dont deserved to be treated like that


----------



## justjohn (27 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



2020hindsight said:


> Hell Calliope
> I post here - and I post there.
> You post here and you post there.
> 
> ...




Callipe, you have to give 20/20 some due he has stuck to kevin07 like a trooper and at the moment is well and truly in the trenches refusing to fly the white flag:bs:but the acid test will be when the good ship Rudd takes on water and is sinking fast will there be room in the lifeboat for the 2 of them,if not Kevy baby has lost one loyal servant:screwy::horse:


----------



## noco (27 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd. I'm happy with his progress.*



Julia said:


> In principle, yes.   But endless talking is empty.  Mr Rudd is behaving like the bureaucrat he is, overlaid with his 'diplomat' smooth robotic delivery.
> 
> Btw I am a swinging voter.  Have voted for both Labor and the Libs, federally and in State elections.   Depends on the personalities, stated beliefs and policies of each at the time.
> 
> ...




Ha Julia! love your post.
Kevin Rudd said "SORRY" and told our indigenous community don't expect any compensation.
Well folks, I believe there is some 40 claims in the pipe line already. If one claim gets up the rest  will surely  follow. He is admitting his forefathers did wrong.

After all the "STOLEN GENERATION" were taken away for the very same reason that is happening to this day; child abuse and neglect. Those people should be thankful for being saved.

John Howard was a little wiser than Rudd when he refused to say "SORRY" knowing full well, in his wisdom, compensation claims would be lodged and ain't the legal eagles rubbing their dirting little hands together.


----------



## chops_a_must (27 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd - I'm happy with his progress*



Calliope said:


> And you love Rudd because you are a leftie.



Strange that, I dislike Rudd because I am a leftie.


Garpal Gumnut said:


> trying aint good enough.
> 
> folk elect labor to "try"
> 
> ...




Yeah, like in WA hey?

A delivery in a delay of key infrastructure? Nice. :


----------



## Nashezz (27 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



justjohn said:


> Callipe, you have to give 20/20 some due he has stuck to kevin07 like a trooper and at the moment is well and truly in the trenches refusing to fly the white flag:bs:but the acid test will be when the good ship Rudd takes on water and is sinking fast will there be room in the lifeboat for the 2 of them,if not Kevy baby has lost one loyal servant:screwy::horse:




Didn't you drown when little Johnny went down?


----------



## Nashezz (27 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd. I'm happy with his progress.*



Calliope said:


> And as I said in the same thread, I now know what you problem is.  However I am willing to make a truce with you. if you control your nastiness, I will stop treating you like an idiot.




That depends Calliope - you show no respect for anyone that associates at all with the left side of politics - whether they be politician or voter. If you continue to just slander them and by association myself then I will challenge it. If you can present a reasoned argument instead of the pure slander I have seen so far than I will be happy to have a 'truce'. I will even try and show some respect for your ideas if you express them.


----------



## Gspot (27 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd - I'm happy with his progress*



Calliope said:


> And you love Rudd because you are a leftie. And did you notice that nearly all the world leaders were absent from the chamber when Rudd addressed the assembly. Most of those who stayed dozed off. You and  he have one thing in common. You are both boring.




Another reason Krudd and Little Johny are the same. They both enjoy getting their rocks off in a half baked congress........ sad for Australia!


----------



## Calliope (27 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd - I'm happy with his progress*

Natchezz. The message I get is that in order to stop your abuse I have to stop criticising Kev Rudd and his supporters. OK, I'll stop. You win.


----------



## Nashezz (27 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd - I'm happy with his progress*



Calliope said:


> Natchezz. The message I get is that in order to stop your abuse I have to stop criticising Kev Rudd and his supporters. OK, I'll stop. You win.




lol - of course that is all you got out of that Calliope. I rest my case. You are welcome to criticise policies/actions/events with some reasoning - but the constant negative commentary without any reasoned argument or fact is something I can't be bothered to listen to mutely.


----------



## Calliope (27 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd - I'm happy with his progress*



Nashezz said:


> lol - of course that is all you got out of that Calliope. I rest my case. You are welcome to criticise policies/actions/events with some reasoning - but the constant negative commentary without any reasoned argument or fact is something I can't be bothered to listen to mutely.




What part of "you win" don't you understand.  Now you say I can only criticise if I follow your rules. You can be negative but I can't. No thanks. You will have to pick on somebody else. There is no shortage of people who don't share you political beliefs


----------



## Julia (27 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd. I'm happy with his progress.*



Nashezz said:


> T
> - maybe Kyoto was outdated but like many people I felt that we had to do it in order to have any meaningful say in the world on the environment and emissions and any future schemes. Sitting back and telling others to do something first when we are one of the worst per capita polluters (as the US is still doing) just didn't cut it for most people, myself included.



OK.  That's reasonable and I accept it on that basis.   The general feeling at the time, though, seemed to be that the signing was going to put a lot right. Possibly just my interpretation.





> - 'Sorry' was never meant to 'fix' the social problems of aboriginals. I don't think anyone claimed it would. They (aboriginal people, or at least their vocal representatives) wanted some acknowledgement that they had been greatly wronged in the past by the government of Australia. John Howard didnt do it, Rudd did. That is all it was meant to be. Generations of social issues were hardly going to be fixed overnight by doing it and I would be surprised if you could find an aboriginal who thought it would. I would also be surprised if you could find an aboriginal person who didn't think that saying 'sorry' wasn't a fantastic thing. How is that than a meaningless posture?



  Actually I spoke soon after the "Sorry" to several aboriginal people who were asking: "and how is that going to make my life better?"   Obviously just a small sample of the population but more than a few of them actually commented that "John Howard was more honest about how he felt."  They seemed to regard Mr Rudd as insincere.   These comments were without any prompting from me other than "How do you feel about Mr Rudd's apology?"

Now had it been followed up by some meaningful plan (such as Noel Pearson has subsequently formulated at Cape York), then I'd agree that it was very worthwhile indeed.  But on its own, just a gesture.  If that's all folks were looking for, then fine.





> Education revolution will take time and money - the second of which may be more difficult to come by with the current economic situations - at least if they continue to be financially prudent. I would be prepared to wait till the end of his term before I judge him 9 months into it whether he has had any success with this.



The pre-election promise was that this was fully costed and ready to roll.
Hence the disappointment and disillusionment.





> I agree that putting a means on the solar rebate plan has not given the desired result. It is a shame though that people that obviously are doing alright can't put their own money into it, instead of relying on a gov't handout.



Well, it's the same old story, isn't it.   People feel that if governments are urging them to do something for the greater good, there should be some financial assistance to that end.  I do agree with you here.  We have become far too much a dependent and quibbling society.





> I don't think its egocentricity that has him rushing around the world but we will have to agree to disagree there. I believe he is doing his best to try and form relationships with people that will help him in his agenda of getting accord on emissions, trade and strategic partnerships. Depends who you want to believe, but everything I have seen or heard about Rudd is that he is intelligent and hardworking



I don't disagree with the 'intelligent and hardworking'.  However, 'effective' is probably a more important quality and this is what I'm questioning.
If egocentric is a little unkind, then perhaps I could moderate that to say that I feel he has an exaggerated sense of his importance in the global scheme of play.




> - that hardly equates with the egocentric timewaster some sections of the media would have you believe he has suddenly become. Unfortunately he does not have the natural charm and wit of someone like M. Turnball, and unfortunately I think people are too easily swayed by fairly inconsequential stuff like that.



Charm alone will never be enough.  It's early days with Mr Turnbull so it would be premature to make a judgement.   All I'd say for now is that his undoubted charm is backed up by a very successful business career.


And thanks for engaging in a reasonable discussion - much appreciated.


----------



## Nashezz (28 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd. I'm happy with his progress.*



Calliope said:


> What part of "you win" don't you understand.  Now you say I can only criticise if I follow your rules. You can be negative but I can't. No thanks. You will have to pick on somebody else. There is no shortage of people who don't share you political beliefs




I understand that Calliope. But if you are aware that people of differing political beliefs to your own are on here and you throw up comments like 'loony left' and similar regularly and with no factual arguments then its pretty offensive, and you can expect a negative retort from me. I am happy to learn.



Julia said:


> OK.  That's reasonable and I accept it on that basis.   The general feeling at the time, though, seemed to be that the signing was going to put a lot right. Possibly just my interpretation.



Fair enough - I knew it wasn't going to fix anything by the mere fact of signing but at least we have joined the vast majority of the world indicating we want to do something other than sit on the fence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Kyoto_Protocol_participation_map_2005.png
I don't mind people being independent but that map/link shows how ludicrous our position was. The world is everyones, not Australia or Americas.



Julia said:


> Actually I spoke soon after the "Sorry" to several aboriginal people who were asking: "and how is that going to make my life better?"   Obviously just a small sample of the population but more than a few of them actually commented that "John Howard was more honest about how he felt."  They seemed to regard Mr Rudd as insincere.   These comments were without any prompting from me other than "How do you feel about Mr Rudd's apology?"
> 
> Now had it been followed up by some meaningful plan (such as Noel Pearson has subsequently formulated at Cape York), then I'd agree that it was very worthwhile indeed.  But on its own, just a gesture.  If that's all folks were looking for, then fine.



My experience was different to yours. I only spoke to my mate (who is aboriginal) but he was genuinely chuffed, as was his family, about the apology. This seemed to agree with the comments the media showed us from aboriginal people. I agree that the plan formulated by Noel Pearson appears to be great but I think that plans like that only work if you are a person, likely an aboriginal yourself, with a vested interest in that particular community. It is a tough situation built up over 200 years and I don't think anyone is going to provide a quick fix to intergenerational problems.

noco mentioned something about JWH being smart enough to not say sorry so as to avoid any responsibility or legal action - to me if you are avoiding an acknowledgement of the truth so as to get out of your responsibility it is not only very low morally but something you would expect from a child, not an adult, and not a leader of your country.



Julia said:


> The pre-election promise was that this was fully costed and ready to roll.
> Hence the disappointment and disillusionment.



Yeh, no argument there - although I (possibly cause I do vote left) put it in perspective of the Liberal gov't defunding education for 12 years in Australia.



Julia said:


> Well, it's the same old story, isn't it.   People feel that if governments are urging them to do something for the greater good, there should be some financial assistance to that end.  I do agree with you here.  We have become far too much a dependent and quibbling society.



Yeh and I agree with you that the policy was a poor one that has not produced the desired effect and was, if looked at, never going to. I guess they felt that they had to tighten the budget given the economic client and some things had to go - obviously this one was one they thought they could let go. Seriously though i reckon they would get better value for money spending money on this policy then supporting some new emission friendly car building scheme for Australia that is never likely to eventuate or beat other cheap car manufacturing countries that are already well into investing in the technology.




Julia said:


> I don't disagree with the 'intelligent and hardworking'.  However, 'effective' is probably a more important quality and this is what I'm questioning.
> If egocentric is a little unkind, then perhaps I could moderate that to say that I feel he has an exaggerated sense of his importance in the global scheme of play.
> 
> Charm alone will never be enough.  It's early days with Mr Turnbull so it would be premature to make a judgement.   All I'd say for now is that his undoubted charm is backed up by a very successful business career.
> ...




Yeh, while I too think it is early days, Turnball is an impressive character - certainly preferable as leader of the Liberal party to anyone else I can think of. That being said I can't believe he hung onto the 5c petrol excise policy.

Sorry you felt I couldnt engage in reasoned discussion...


----------



## Julia (28 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd. I'm happy with his progress.*



Nashezz said:


> Sorry you felt I couldnt engage in reasoned discussion...




I'm puzzled by this?   Didn't I just thank you for engaging in reasonable discussion???



> And thanks for engaging in a reasonable discussion - much appreciated.


----------



## trading_rookie (29 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



> He is quite embarassing and eccentric the way he acts in public.




Well this is the pollie who likes to snack on ear wax! 

When I look at the ALP front bench the only ones who seem to inspire any
economic prowess is Bowen and Tanner...the rest are for the tip. Watching 
the ALP during question time I get more interested in the shenanigans going
on above Gillard - those 2 MP's like to chat, flirt and sit pretty close together. I wonder if there's yet 'another' ALP fling happening in the house of reps.


----------



## --B-- (29 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



2020hindsight said:


> I'm guessing that a lot of you blokes critical of Rudd
> a) didn't agree with the "Sorry" statement
> b) didn't agree with signing Kyoto (and all the opportunities that will flow from that) ..
> 
> ...




lol. here we go.

ok 2020,

a: what has saying sorry actually done for the country?
b: what has signing kyoto actually done for the country?


----------



## moXJO (29 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd. I'm happy with his progress.*



nioka said:


> The installers of solar panels don't seem to have a problem with the rebate threshold. They can't keep up with the demand from what I hear.




 HUH?? I know a few installers, who at the time of the increase of the rebate lost all their upcoming work. I think the rebates were chewing through the funding to fast.



> A DOWNTURN in the solar energy market is already clear just two months after the Rudd Government changed the rules over rebates, according to the Electrical Trades Union (ETU).
> 
> The claims that job opportunities were being "killed off" by the rebate changes were presented to a Federal Parliamentary committee hearing in Melbourne yesterday.
> 
> Ms Schoots said ETU members had reported a decline of close to 70% in the number of solar panel installation requests.




http://www.theage.com.au/environment/solar-rebate-rules-unplug-electricians-20080728-3mb0.html


----------



## Nashezz (30 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



--B-- said:


> lol. here we go.
> 
> ok 2020,
> 
> ...




Satisfied the majority of the people in the country who wanted it to happen and voted him in expecting him to.


----------



## Calliope (30 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

While the boy from Brissie was on his fruitless mission overseas to save the world from financial meltdown, global warming and poverty, Julia Gillard showed by example what a poor performer Kev is in the House. She had a ball.

I doubt if he will shoot through again while the house is sitting.


----------



## --B-- (30 September 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Nashezz said:


> Satisfied the majority of the people in the country who wanted it to happen and voted him in expecting him to.




oh so they're both nothing more than symbolic gestures?

oki doki...


----------



## noco (1 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

Last month the rooster (sorry Swan) clearly stated he would put pressure on the Banks to pass on any interest rate reduction by the RBA.

Today he does a back-flip and  he states the banks do not have to pass on any intersest rate reductions. Does he know what he is doing? He seems to be in a muddle at the moment and Rudd should bring him into line.

One day they both state the Labor party  inherited a poor economy from the HOWARD/COSTELLO government and the next day with USA economy in crisis, they say we have a strong economy which will see us through hard times. Somebody please tell me they are not taking the credit after such a short time in office or are they now talking up the economy to gain public confidence? 

Beats the S*#T our of me!


----------



## Macquack (1 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Nashezz said:


> Satisfied the majority of the people in the country who wanted it to happen and voted him in expecting him to.




Good answer Nashezz. Simple and to the point.


----------



## Julia (1 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



noco said:


> Last month the rooster (sorry Swan) clearly stated he would put pressure on the Banks to pass on any interest rate reduction by the RBA.
> 
> Today he does a back-flip and  he states the banks do not have to pass on any intersest rate reductions. Does he know what he is doing? He seems to be in a muddle at the moment and Rudd should bring him into line.
> 
> ...




I thought Mr Swan was - for the first time - being realistic and sensible in his comment today, as opposed to his previous populist rants about "insisting" that the banks pass on any interest rate cuts in full.  He knows full well he can't insist on any such thing, but it sounded good to the punters.

It's not reasonable to expect the banks to pass on in full a rate cut if it's, say, 50 basis points, given their current increased costs in sourcing funds. Mr Swan's comment was simply recognising this and he deserves credit for being so realistic.

However, he gave the Opposition the perfect opportunity to take over the populist role.  They rose to the occasion, with first Julie Bishop and later Malcolm Turnbull, accusing the government of running up with white flag with the banks.  All so damn silly.

Probably would have been better all round had Mr Swan simply refrained from making any comment at all.  No one asked him as far as I can tell.

And then this evening on the 7.30 Report, we have an interesting sequelae to the above exchanges.

Ali Moore is interviewing the Prime Minister in the wake of the bounce in the market today and the probability of some sort of revised resue plan being passed by Congress this week.  Gave Mr Rudd the appropriate opportunity to sound important as he detailed his telephone exchanges with all the world leaders who were united in persuading those pesky recalcitrant congressmen to consider the international good rather than their individual election fortunes.
The implication was that if the Bill does pass, then we have Mr Rudd to thank, given the skill of his intervention from our far land.

Then he went on to offer a big heap of reassurance about the efficiency of APRA, and more importantly, the well capitalised and well regulated nature of our fine Australian banks.  The best in the world, he assured us.  (This is where we all smile and heave sighs of relief, as he gazes reassuringly at us from our TV screens.)

But then Ali Moore put to him the question of bank deposits not actually being guaranteed, something overseas banks are moving to do, given the precarious current situation.   

"If they are so sound", said Ms Moore, "shouldn't the government be happy to guarantee deposits"?  Excellent question.  She repeated it several times.
But our fine Prime Minister, in true bureaucratic style, managed not to answer.
Clearly it's fine to talk up the banks, but he isn't going to back that up with any sort of government guarantee.

Gee whiz, Kev 07.  The smiles are being wiped off our faces fairly quickly.


----------



## chops_a_must (1 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

I reckon if you read between the lines Julia, and it may be my over active, paranoid and over thinking mind, that Swan is going easy on them for an assurance they will bail depositors out should the need arise...


----------



## Calliope (1 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

Julia, I never thought I would say this, but on Mr Swan's comment I would give him an *A*. Turnbull and Bishop both *C* and as for our Kev, another fail ( for not answering the question).


----------



## MrBurns (2 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



> "If they are so sound", said Ms Moore, "shouldn't the government be happy to guarantee deposits"? Excellent question. She repeated it several times.
> But our fine Prime Minister, in true bureaucratic style, managed not to answer.
> Clearly it's fine to talk up the banks, but he isn't going to back that up with any sort of government guarantee.




Good pick up Julia - Why doesn't the media run with this , are they so clueless that they just haven't picked it up ?


----------



## auric (2 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2008/s2379533.htm


----------



## Nashezz (2 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> Good pick up Julia - Why doesn't the media run with this , are they so clueless that they just haven't picked it up ?




Why would he paint himself into a corner. Rudd is very very far from the first politician or PM that wanders around answering a question, so the asnwer is not rammed down his throat a few weeks later when something happens to make his previous statement/position false or untenable.

Why would Rudd make a guarantee that would by nature be very dependent on how any bank failure occurred. If it was clear that only one bank was going to die due to bad lending/investing practices I very much doubt the gov't would intervene - however if the malaise was more widespread I very much expect the gov't would intervene to ensure the operation of our economy and financial system. The expectation to give a simple answer to what is a very complex problem (not conveyed at all in the question) is a little silly imo. 

Also, if he says they would step-in, than people would jump down his throat for saying our banks are safe - to say he wouldn't intervene in a major failure would be idiotic...


----------



## Julia (2 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Calliope said:


> Julia, I never thought I would say this, but on Mr Swan's comment I would give him an *A*. Turnbull and Bishop both *C* and as for our Kev, another fail ( for not answering the question).



I completely agree, Calliope.  Sorry if I didn't make that clear in my earlier post.  And Mr Rudd repeated the point, I think today or maybe it was in the 7.30 Report interview last night.  Labor are absolutely right on this and Turnbull/Bishop have reduced their credibility considerably by trying for a cheap populist point.

Nashez:  I wasn't necessarily suggesting the government should guarantee bank deposits (though it would be nice).  Rather that Mr Rudd allowed himself to be painted into a corner by the rather clever Ms Moore.

Score on this issue:  Labor 10, Libs zero.


----------



## MrBurns (2 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



> Why would Rudd make a guarantee that would by nature be very dependent on how any bank failure occurred.




No one asked him the guarantee anything just to state the situation as it now stands, guarantee or no guarantee and he couldn't answer. 
This issue is important to millions of Australians so avoiding the question just loses him even more respect ........and votes.


----------



## golfmos123 (2 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Nashezz said:


> Satisfied the majority of the people in the country who wanted it to happen and voted him in expecting him to.




Nashezz - if that is why people voted in Rudd, then we as a country are in deep doggie doo doo.  Can we all really be that shallow???

Rudd has done very little other than populist clap trap.  He is still playing the PR game thinking he is running a public service department.  Nothing significant has happened regarding the large issues he campaigned on - look at the poor attempt to rollback work choices and union issues that are brewing.  He is still playing a blame game and I don't think the public is anywhere near as happy now as they thought they were going to be.

He is very lucky (for now) to have Gillard as the deputy, she seems to be the man in the partnership!!


----------



## Nashezz (3 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

Well there is no doubt some of you (easily seen in this thread) think he has done nothing but populist claptrap, although the polls seem to suggest that most are still happy enough with him, as fickle as they are.

I would say that it isn't shallow to vote someone in based on policy and commitments, which I would say Rudd was voted in on. So far he has kept his commitments/promises to a large degree (we'll ignore computers in schools for the moment) and I think that this is just expected, and rightly so, from the public - to turn around and call it grandstanding/populist crap/nothing useful down the track makes no sense to me. He said he would do it on his election platform - we voted him in - he did it....

As far as policy/legislation, or what some of you see as the only worthwhile part - I think it is way too early to be crying 'he does nothing'. To my mind he has started committees because he is looking at the best way to develop legislation by getting a number of people to work on it, and formulate what should be than, well thought out policy that takes into account the complex repercussions. 

He has only been in ten months, I think he has plenty of time to do 'something'. I also believe, whatever the outcome, that policy constructed thoughtfully has to be better than policy whipped up on an ideal overnight.


----------



## aleckara (3 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

I don't think politicans have much sway on the economy. I think most of them are completely out of touch and out of depth with it including Rudd.

I did not like Howard for Workchoices, GST, and a number of other things. In fact I would of been happier if Howard did nothing. Maybe then I would of voted him in.

Wow now that I have a leader that does nothing I'm extremely happy. No one really wants change; they just want to go on with their lives. I'm no exception. The less a politican screws up my life the better as they really don't know how to make it better most of the time (I'm a young male, bascially a non-important voter in the grand scheme of things compared to single mothers, businesses, the aging population, home occupiers with their negative gearing - any change theoritically looking at the majority of people voting should be to my detriment).


----------



## pacestick (3 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

no im not I have never been happier after years and years of deliberate  lies from the previous pm (remember children overboard ) it is refreshing to have honesty it is unlikely to last of course, they all compromiuse in the end . Turnbull is already compromised because of his merchant banker background  a profession that is being likened by people losing their houses to a used car salesman and they are not to well  thought of. So we have to sit and wait  for the next opposition leader as the  libs leadership will inevitablty  go through what seems to be the lot of all oppositions in  Australia of playing pass the poisoned  parcel


----------



## MrBurns (3 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



> (remember children overboard )




Yes I remember the Libs attempts to keep Australia safe from queue jumpers from who knows where coming here to do who knows what. While Labor latte' sucking sycophants were welcoming them into their homes, good thing that didn't get out or Australia would be swimming in Al Queda.

I also remember Bob Hawke 







> no child will be living in poverty




What a weak and worthless tosser, no Hawke will be living in poverty that's for sure, amazing how he is a multi millionaire on a PM's salary.

Now Labor will oversee the destruction of the Australian economy and leave the mess for the Libs to fix _AS USUAL._


----------



## nioka (3 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

I'm happy with the way Rudd is perf.... Sorry wrong thread.


----------



## MrBurns (3 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



nioka said:


> I'm happy with the way Rudd is perf.... Sorry wrong thread.




Yes... the originator and contributors to that thread should be taken away and boiled in oil .........while we can still afford it.


----------



## nioka (3 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> Yes... the originator and contributors to that thread should be taken away and boiled in oil .........while we can still afford it.





ouch!!!


----------



## MrBurns (3 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

I could crush him like an ant. But it would be too easy. No, revenge is a dish best served cold. I'll bide my time until ... Oh, what the hell. I'll just crush him like an ant.


----------



## [t..o..m] (3 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

Even though turnbull does constantly display a front of complete arrogance, if I had the chance to vote him into power I would do it in a heart beat. Rudd may be clever but with the recent economic turmoil happening in the world I just don't trust Labour to look after us all.

Hell, turnbull even offered to help Rud sort it out! Mean while Rud, with his brilliant agenda to stop climate change, is jet setting around the world with an entire entourage.... isn't that a bit contradictory? He wants to stop climate change, but thinks it's fine to fly his luxury jet, burning thousands of gallons of fuel to go have "chats" about what to do?

I work in the IT industry, the answer (as SUN has already found, recently saving +30% in travel costs) is tele/video conference!!!

It's time to stop the blame game Mr Rud, get your head out your a$$ and try help our country to grow and prosper into what we deserve to be.

If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.


----------



## pacestick (3 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

t.. o.. m  have you forgotten that malcolm is a merchant banker and they got us into this mess..Just as well his obvious desperate move  to get some publicity was turned down or we would go down the tubes with the usa. With the offer rejected he can concentrate on  rearrainging the deck chairs on the titanic that is the lib party he could get some lessons on this from that other political titanic the nsw labour party


----------



## Nashezz (4 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> Yes I remember the Libs attempts to keep Australia safe from queue jumpers from who knows where coming here to do who knows what. While Labor latte' sucking sycophants were welcoming them into their homes, good thing that didn't get out or Australia would be swimming in Al Queda.
> 
> I also remember Bob Hawke
> 
> ...




Ho hum Burns. While you sucked up the RW rhetoric about asylum seekers the fact is most of them were found to be legitimate refugees - ie running away from a place because they feared for their lives - and we were obligated to take them as we are signatories to the International Agreement about them. All the other nonsense like 'illegal immigrants', 'queue jumpers' and the like was just to keep the scared little people like yourself scared and thankful that Lord Howard was doing something.

If you are completely ignorant of the way the economy works, don't comment on it. Interest rates rose entirely under a Liberal gov't, and it is high interest rates that, excluding the financial sector issues atm, would have the greatest effect on retarding growth in Australia. You cannot say that it is a global effect as many other countries had low interest rates (such as the US), nor can you blame the past gov't because the Liberal party were in for 12 years. Now, the Labour gov't has an economy that was hampered by Liberal gov't policy in it's last term or two and by a global problem in the finance sector. Now if the economy is in ruins in 3 years when it is election time again, no doubt you will just blame Labour, but can you tell me which policy of theirs caused it?



pacestick said:


> t.. o.. m  have you forgotten that malcolm is a merchant banker and they got us into this mess..Just as well his obvious desperate move  to get some publicity was turned down or we would go down the tubes with the usa. With the offer rejected he can concentrate on  rearrainging the deck chairs on the titanic that is the lib party he could get some lessons on this from that other political titanic the nsw labour party




LOL - good post pacestick. Forest for trees.


----------



## MrBurns (4 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



> the fact is most of them were found to be legitimate refugees - ie running away from a place because they feared for their lives




Oh Nashezz you are an unpleasant Labor suckup aren't you.

*Most* of them were running away out of fear so therefore only a few of them were potential terrorists, oh ..... thats ok so how do you tell one from the other, Thats right leave that to _someone else_ to work out Nashezz while you and others like you do *nothing*, just find the fault and no solution.

Interest rates moved up to reasonable levels after a prolonged period of being very low. If people cant handle higher interest rates they shouldn't have borrowed the money in the first place, where in the mortgage does it say the rate shall remain fixed for the life of the loan ?

I don't believe the rate rises effected business to any great degree they are used to fluctuating interest rates like the 18% under Keating for instance.

And yes the economy will go down the tubes and Labor who are as impotent as the people who support them wont be able to cope. At least we'll have a PM who speaks Chinese that'll be handy when they take over.

And of course we've got Wayne Swan to lead us through the greatest economic challenge for 100 years and the Libs will have to pick up his mess.


----------



## chops_a_must (4 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> *Most* of them were running away out of fear so therefore only a few of them were potential terrorists, oh ..... thats ok so how do you tell one from the other, Thats right leave that to _someone else_ to work out Nashezz while you and others like you do *nothing*, just find the fault and no solution.



Lol.

We go to war with a country/ countries because their leadership is so despotic, making it intolerable for their citizens to live there, and in the process of making war, make it harder for said people to live in said country.

Yet we reject those whose side we are on? Is that the conclusion?

The logic is absolutely astounding.

I hate those bloody jewish terrorists as well! Go back to Germany and Eastern Europe where you belong!


----------



## pacestick (4 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

Some quotes from asio web site. It appears  the Libs were looking in the wrong place

2006-07, ASIO completed 53 387 visa security assessments and issued adverse assessments in relation to seven individuals seeking entry to Australia. This advice was based on rigorous assessments of the potential threat to Australia's security of allowing these individuals entry.  Asio home page


Faheem Khalid Lodhi - a highly educated professional who was well established in the community - was convicted in June 2006 for planning a terrorist attack on Australian soil.
Lodhi's plans to attack the electricity supply system may have been directed at causing damage to property but would probably also have resulted in the death or injury of innocent civilians.
And, as noted by Justice Wheatley, such attacks would 'instil terror into members of the public so that they could never again feel free from the threat
director general asio speech
Terroists do not arrive in  leaky boats which have a chance of sinking or being detected they arrive at international airports with the best false identities money can buy


----------



## pacestick (4 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

In the interests of a healthy debate  could we do research and not rely on the standard vague lib statements such as a reasonable interest rate what is a reasonable interest rate to me as a mortgage holder its as low as possible to my father as an interest rate reciever retiree its as high as possible


----------



## Nashezz (4 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> .......only a few of them were potential terrorists,.......
> 
> I don't believe the rate rises effected business to any great degree they are used to fluctuating interest rates like the 18% under Keating for instance.






pacestick said:


> Terrorists do not arrive in  leaky boats which have a chance of sinking or being detected they arrive at international airports with the best false identities money can buy




You are a nong Burns. Read pacesticks quote about terrorists - you will have to accept that you were completely duped by some of the more zealous members of RW journalism. Oh well, plenty of time for you to learn I guess.

You are the first economist I have ever heard state that higher interest rates do not impinge on both business and consumer growth and investment. Funny.


----------



## MrBurns (4 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



pacestick said:


> Some quotes from asio web site. It appears  the Libs were looking in the wrong place
> 
> 2006-07, ASIO completed 53 387 visa security assessments and issued adverse assessments in relation to seven individuals seeking entry to Australia. This advice was based on rigorous assessments of the potential threat to Australia's security of allowing these individuals entry.  Asio home page
> 
> ...




Well it's good to know that you know how terrorists arrive in this country, we can rely on that information can we ?

In any case they were illegal imigrants. if you let them in you send a message to the rest of the world that they just have to get here and they get Govt assistance and welfare payments from day one.


----------



## MrBurns (4 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



pacestick said:


> In the interests of a healthy debate  could we do research and not rely on the standard vague lib statements such as a reasonable interest rate what is a reasonable interest rate to me as a mortgage holder its as low as possible to my father as an interest rate reciever retiree its as high as possible




Take your own advice your posts are full of unsubstantiated opinion.


----------



## MrBurns (4 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Nashezz said:


> You are a nong Burns. Read pacesticks quote about terrorists - you will have to accept that you were completely duped by some of the more zealous members of RW journalism. Oh well, plenty of time for you to learn I guess.
> 
> You are the first economist I have ever heard state that higher interest rates do not impinge on both business and consumer growth and investment. Funny.




If it were up to you Australia would be full of anyone who took their chance in a boat. It's bad enough that we have you.

I was in business so I know and I know what hurts and what doesn't. Interest rates were way too low for too long, now it's catch up time and all the unfortunates who thought that these things never change got an awful shock. I blame the system/banks for not giving enough warning and making lending too easy.


----------



## Nashezz (4 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

lol ok Burns.


----------



## chops_a_must (4 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> Well it's good to know that you know how terrorists arrive in this country



Yeah, usually in air force one.



MrBurns said:


> In any case they were illegal imigrants. if you let them in you send a message to the rest of the world that they just have to get here and they get Govt assistance and welfare payments from day one.



Like the Kiwis in Bondi you mean?

Would much rather let people in who are willing to risk their lives to be a part of this country, rather than bludging kiwis or rich south african pricks who left because they didn't like having to share a working environment with blacks.


----------



## MrBurns (4 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



chops_a_must said:


> Yeah, usually in air force one.
> 
> 
> Like the Kiwis in Bondi you mean?
> ...




If it wasnt for the Yanks you'd be speaking Japanese by now so stick the left wing "I hate the USA" crap where it belongs.



> Would much rather let people in who are willing to risk their lives to be a part of this country




What a load of crud, I don't think they would have come here if there was something else a bit closer and easier, they heard all about the great welfare system here from all their Labor voter mates, "you'll never have to work again" they were told.


----------



## Nashezz (4 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> If it wasnt for the Yanks you'd be speaking Japanese by now so stick the left wing "I hate the USA" crap where it belongs.
> 
> 
> 
> What a load of crud, I don't think they would have come here if there was something else a bit closer and easier, they heard all about the great welfare system here from all their Labor voter mates, "you'll never have to work again" they were told.




Gee whiz Burns you are hilarious. You will find that people that are annoyed/frustrated/exasperated or just sick of, 'the US', are not on one side of the political fence or the other. I also think you will find it is well over 50% of Australians that you could possibly call left that fit this category. And the last part of your post is just sheer ignorance and delusion. To think Afghanis in some remote tribe had some 'Labor voter mates' telling them to spend their entire life savings to risk their and their families' to go to Australia because 'its good there' is laughable. You are laughable.


----------



## Macquack (4 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



chops_a_must said:


> I hate those bloody jewish terrorists as well! Go back to Germany and Eastern Europe where you belong!




Are you referring to those terrorists in their military tanks blasting the crap out of a couple of Palestinian school kids throwing stones?


----------



## MrBurns (4 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Nashezz said:


> You are laughable.





And you are stupid ......that was an exaggeration that most people would have picked up as tongue in cheek but it went straight over your flat head.


----------



## Nashezz (4 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> And you are stupid ......that was an exaggeration that most people would have picked up as tongue in cheek but it went straight over your flat head.





Mm hmm. Ok Burns - no arguing with your superior wit.


----------



## MrBurns (4 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

Burns: Look at that pig. Stuffing his face with donuts on my time! That's right, keep eating...Little do you know you're drawing ever closer to the poison donut! ..............There is a poison one, isn't there Smithers? 
Smithers: Err...no, sir. I discussed this with our lawyers and they consider it murder.


----------



## chops_a_must (4 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Macquack said:


> Are you referring to those terrorists in their military tanks blasting the crap out of a couple of Palestinian school kids throwing stones?




I'm talking about those outsiders who in 38 and 39 who were turned away, and were largely put to their deaths...


----------



## Macquack (4 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



chops_a_must said:


> I'm talking about those outsiders who in 38 and 39 who were turned away, and were largely put to their deaths...




Are you talking about "financial" terrorists.


----------



## chops_a_must (4 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Macquack said:


> Are you talking about "financial" terrorists.




I'm lending 'today's' cliched response to almost exactly the same group of people, in situational terms, as those of a previous era.

You look back, and there was just as much anti-semitic fervour in allied countries, as there was hostility towards refugees in recent times.

And certainly they would have been labelled financial terrorists in today's language, amongst other things, yes.


----------



## IFocus (4 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> If it wasnt for the Yanks you'd be speaking Japanese by now so stick the left wing "I hate the USA" crap where it belongs.





The president of the US at the time was a Democrat nothing  like today's president.


----------



## chops_a_must (4 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



IFocus said:


> The president of the US at the time was a Democrat nothing  like today's president.




Comparing an isolationist moderate to a blood thirsty war mongering idiot is pretty absurd.


----------



## Julia (4 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



chops_a_must said:


> Like the Kiwis in Bondi you mean?
> 
> Would much rather let people in who are willing to risk their lives to be a part of this country, rather than bludging kiwis or rich south african pricks who left because they didn't like having to share a working environment with blacks.



As a New Zealander I find that offensive.
If you were to check some facts, you would find that New Zealanders can only obtain unemployment benefits if they are permanent residents of Australia.  Such unemployment benefits are then reimbursed by New Zealand via the N.Z./Australia Reciprocal Agreement.

New Zealanders living permanently in Australia who are eligible for the Age Pension in fact have that benefit paid by New Zealand.

Have you been to South Africa in recent years?   In Johannesburg in particular conditions are so violent that ordinary people will not go out after dusk.   If you even consider the pathetic impotence of Thabo Mbeki in attempting to mediate between the opposing contenders in Zimbabwe, you should have some comprehension of the woeful state of South African government.

Any South African immigrants to Australia pay their way well and truly, and are as far as I've ever seen a real asset to our country.  They are hard working and pleasant people.

What is it with you, Chops, that you feel obliged to make such unjustified and simply unpleasant remarks so often?   Does it make you feel better to take a swipe at other people?

I've generally found that those who need to denigrate others are saying more about themselves than those whom they are trying to criticise.


----------



## IFocus (4 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Julia said:


> As a New Zealander I find that offensive.
> If you were to check some facts, you would find that New Zealanders can only obtain unemployment benefits if they are permanent residents of Australia.  Such unemployment benefits are then reimbursed by New Zealand via the N.Z./Australia Reciprocal Agreement.
> 
> New Zealanders living permanently in Australia who are eligible for the Age Pension in fact have that benefit paid by New Zealand.
> ...




Julia I think you are now whats called a live bait


----------



## Julia (4 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



IFocus said:


> Julia I think you are now whats called a live bait




Am I?  OK, we'll see.


----------



## Calliope (4 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Julia said:


> Am I?  OK, we'll see.




Some people can't handle the truth. I wish you luck Julia.


----------



## Doris (4 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



chops_a_must said:


> Would much rather let people in who are willing to risk their lives to be a part of this country, rather than bludging kiwis or rich south african pricks who left because they didn't like having to share a working environment with blacks.




This is bigotry!  Shame on you chops!  

Do you have evidence to claim your stereotyping of Kiwis?

Friends of mine came here nine years ago from Durban.
They were upper middle class living in a commensurate neighborhood.

Their final decision was provoked when neighbors were raped and their homes ransacked.  
Black police took over three hours to arrive and were jovially drunk!  
Needless to say, charges were never laid against the black perpetrators.

You do not know you don't know how well off you are to live (in Australia) with your ignorance!
... commensurate with Palin!


----------



## Macquack (4 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Doris said:


> *This is bigotry!*  Shame on you chops!  :




*And this is not ?*


Doris said:


> *Black police *took over three hours to arrive and were jovially drunk!
> Needless to say, charges were never laid against the *black perpetrators*.


----------



## nioka (4 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Julia said:


> As a New Zealander I find that offensive..




Chops goes out of his way to offend so no one is taking his posts serious. It is the classical tactic for someone who has nothing positive to say.


----------



## chops_a_must (5 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Julia said:


> As a New Zealander I find that offensive.
> If you were to check some facts, you would find that New Zealanders can only obtain unemployment benefits if they are permanent residents of Australia.  Such unemployment benefits are then reimbursed by New Zealand via the N.Z./Australia Reciprocal Agreement.



I was purely fighting fire with fire when it comes to rubbish stereotypes of foreigners, to see if the white connection would elicit a completely different response to that of the racial stereotype for muslims and arabs.


----------



## chops_a_must (5 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Macquack said:


> *And this is not ?*



Exactly.

It proved my point perfectly, did it not?

That stereotypes against 'whites' are strongly refuted where as no-one gives a crap about _more_ absurd, dangerous and socially destructive stereotypes of other groups...


----------



## pacestick (5 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

thos thread seems to have left behind its original subject maybe its proponents lost and decided that Rudd is a ok


----------



## Julia (5 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



chops_a_must said:


> I was purely fighting fire with fire when it comes to rubbish stereotypes of foreigners, to see if the white connection would elicit a completely different response to that of the racial stereotype for muslims and arabs.




If that is so, why not simply express that hypothesis without the gratuitous and inappropriate unpleasantness, e.g. "*bludging* Kiwis",  "rich South African *pricks*"?


----------



## pacestick (5 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

The late fred hollows former australian of the year never was naturalised from his kiwi citizenship


----------



## chops_a_must (5 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Julia said:


> If that is so, why not simply express that hypothesis without the gratuitous and inappropriate unpleasantness, e.g. "*bludging* Kiwis",  "rich South African *pricks*"?




Otherwise I wouldn't have got the reaction I wanted to make the point.

I've used it for many many years now as a tactic to point out people's hypocracy and it has worked again.


----------



## Macquack (5 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



chops_a_must said:


> Otherwise I wouldn't have got the reaction I wanted to make the point.
> 
> I've used it for many many years now as a tactic to point out people's hypocracy and it has worked again.




Does that make you a "hypocritical hypocrite".


----------



## nioka (5 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



pacestick said:


> thos thread seems to have left behind its original subject maybe its proponents lost and decided that Rudd is a ok




 That is because Rudd IS OK.


----------



## chops_a_must (6 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Macquack said:


> Does that make you a "hypocritical hypocrite".



Nope. Because I don't hold the belief behind the view I was expressing.


----------



## r34ztune (7 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

just watched Rudd's speece in response to market turmoil. The more he speaks the more he loses his credibility, I've never seen a more embarassing politician in my life. A very hollow speech which delivered no confidence.


----------



## MrBurns (7 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



r34ztune said:


> just watched Rudd's speece in response to market turmoil. The more he speaks the more he loses his credibility, I've never seen a more embarassing politician in my life. A very hollow speech which delivered no confidence.




I agree , he should go away and come back when we need a PM that specialises in BS and usless talkfests.


----------



## nioka (7 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



r34ztune said:


> just watched Rudd's speece in response to market turmoil. The more he speaks the more he loses his credibility, I've never seen a more embarassing politician in my life. A very hollow speech which delivered no confidence.





I think that those of you who don't want to believe in him, see things differently than those of us that are pleased the way he is performing. None so blind as those that will not see.


----------



## MrBurns (7 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



nioka said:


> I think that those of you who don't want to believe in him, see things differently than those of us that are pleased the way he is performing. None so blind as those that will not see.




I'm glad to see you at least admit you are blind to his total inadequacy for the job.


----------



## nioka (7 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> I'm glad to see you at least admit you are blind to his total inadequacy for the job.



 I'll admit to many things, one is that I'm often wrong. However in judging Rudd I do it by looking at what the opposition parties could have done or could do better than Rudd during this immediate problem. I suggest he is handling things better than the other party would or could. ----Instead of just knocking please suggest a better alternative, I may even change back to being a National party vote.


----------



## MrBurns (7 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



nioka said:


> I'll admit to many things, one is that I'm often wrong. However in judging Rudd I do it by looking at what the opposition parties could have done or could do better than Rudd during this immediate problem. I suggest he is handling things better than the other party would or could. ----Instead of just knocking please suggest a better alternative, I may even change back to being a National party vote.




I was impressed with Rudd initially but he doesnt seem to have a handle on what's happening at present.

I don't feel we have a LEADER in charge, rather a spectator.

He only seems to shine when he is speaking of some new idea he has, but the actions don't seem to match the words.

Turnbull is a lot of things, arrogant call him what you like but he is a self made man who knows business and I would feel much more secure with him in the drivers seat at present.

Rudd will spend a lot as Labor does but he wont know how to best position us during the times to come IMHO


----------



## Julia (7 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



nioka said:


> I think that those of you who don't want to believe in him, see things differently than those of us that are pleased the way he is performing. None so blind as those that will not see.



I don't think that's entirely fair, Nioka.   
I was initially quite keen on him, thought he'd be a really competent leader.
But I've been very disappointed with his robot like delivery and over-focus on talk fests, enquiries, and committees.

But then, I was pleased when Malcolm Turnbull took over from the woeful Dr Nelson, only to feel disappointed in his populist remarks about the banks' capacity to pass on in full any interest rate cut.  To say this has cut his credibility considerably.  He knows very well the increased costs the banks are encountering, and should be agreeing with the government about the absolute need at this time for the banks to maintain maximum profitability.

And Julie Bishop is simply poor - quite out of her depth.

For what it's worth, I think the government can't be expected to "cure" the present situation.


----------



## slushy32 (7 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

What a load of dogmatic dribble coming from the right in this thread!  I do believe your so called 'communist' Labour party now receives more funding and support from big business then from the unions. So please those of you on here who bash Rudd thinking they are realists please get real and keep your hysterical ranting to yourselves.


----------



## Macquack (7 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> I'm glad to see you at least admit you are blind to his total inadequacy for the job.




Wake up Monty, you cant blame Rudd for the global credit crisis.

Is this what you want Rudd to say -

"I am afraid people, we are at the mercy of these multi-national monsters called "banks". If we stop feeding them the weak and frail, they will start coming after the fit and healthy. In fact, they are already coming after the fit and healthy. So pep up and bulk up for the fight of your lives. And may I add, that I did not create this inequitable financial system whereby private banks control the issue of our money. The only role of the Reserve Bank is to make it look like the government controls our currency."


----------



## MrBurns (7 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

=







> Macquack;345837]Wake up Monty, you cant blame Rudd for the global credit crisis.




No I dont blame Rudd he doesn't even know what a global crisis is. 

That's the problem you need to be a lot smarter then Rudd to see us through this.


----------



## Macquack (7 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> =
> 
> No I dont blame Rudd he doesn't even know what a global crisis is.
> 
> That's the problem you need to be a lot smarter then Rudd to see us through this.




Any suggestions, Charlie?


----------



## IFocus (7 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Macquack said:


> Any suggestions, Charlie?




I was thinking the same.......Europe and the US looking into the Abyss and BTW the Abyss is coming to Asian soon the Government only have a couple of levers to pull and push, pity the brainless Liberals have the foot  on the brake blocking efforts to build a bigger surplus while playing populist politics.


----------



## MrBurns (7 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



IFocus said:


> I was thinking the same.......Europe and the US looking into the Abyss and BTW the Abyss is coming to Asian soon the Government only have a couple of levers to pull and push, pity the brainless Liberals have the foot  on the brake blocking efforts to build a bigger surplus while playing populist politics.




No point arguing with labor voters you're clueless otherwise Rudd wouldn't be in power now.


----------



## nioka (7 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> No point arguing with labor voters you're clueless otherwise Rudd wouldn't be in power now.




I didn't think that brains were altered according to the way you vote. Ah well you learn something every day.


----------



## MrBurns (7 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



nioka said:


> I didn't think that brains were altered according to the way you vote. Ah well you learn something every day.




If that made any sense I'd respond.


----------



## Julia (7 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



slushy32 said:


> What a load of dogmatic dribble coming from the right in this thread!  I do believe your so called 'communist' Labour party now receives more funding and support from big business then from the unions. So please those of you on here who bash Rudd thinking they are realists please get real and keep your hysterical ranting to yourselves.



What exactly would you have been expecting on a thread entitled "Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?"
A forum is a place for exchange of views, not for limiting views just to those which happen to agree with your thoughts.


----------



## trading_rookie (7 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



> And Julie Bishop is simply poor - quite out of her depth.




Bitterly disappointed with her, she was a bright spark while Euducation and Science Minister. These days she's nothing but a flop. I wonder how long they'll give her before they send her packing to the backbench...


----------



## Nashezz (8 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> No point arguing with labor voters you're clueless otherwise Rudd wouldn't be in power now.






Julia said:


> What exactly would you have been expecting on a thread entitled "Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?"
> A forum is a place for exchange of views, not for limiting views just to those which happen to agree with your thoughts.




It's not the blind dogma thats as annoying as the straight out insults - one minute left voters are chardonnay sipping intellectual 'elitists', the next we are clueless idiots hell bent on destroying society. That is, of course, if you can believe Burns, who has given us lucky few the benefit of his insight. 

I am sure, as Burns suggests, Malcolm would be able to stop the global financial crisis on his own - why hasn't the world asked him to yet?


----------



## Macquack (8 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Nashezz said:


> I am sure, as Burns suggests, *Malcolm would be able to stop the global financial crisis on his own *- why hasn't the world asked him to yet?




Well he did help start the mess with his buddy Hank Paulson as part of Team America (Goldman Sachs). Thing is we want to know how to fix it, not how to wreck it for parts.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (8 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Nashezz said:


> It's not the blind dogma thats as annoying as the straight out insults - one minute left voters are chardonnay sipping intellectual 'elitists', the next we are clueless idiots hell bent on destroying society. That is, of course, if you can believe Burns, who has given us lucky few the benefit of his insight.




But Nash mate, you are all those things, and Mr.Burns is a certified genius. Everywhere you go people point at you and say "Thats Nashezz, the chardonnay sipping intellectual 'elitist'. On the bus, in the newsagent, at the servo and when you are buying your tickets for some left wing play about a one legged gay nun who discovers Brecht. 

Mr. Burns on the other hand has carers who wheel him about, show his certificate of genius  to him frequently and take him to reruns of the Sound of Music. 

This is the heavy cross you both bear.

gg


----------



## MrBurns (8 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Macquack said:


> Well he did help start the mess with his buddy Hank Paulson as part of Team America (Goldman Sachs). Thing is we want to know how to fix it, not how to wreck it for parts.




Grow up, get a job, stop blaming others for the chip on your shoulder.


----------



## nioka (8 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

I can't work out Mr Burns yet. Is he either John Howard or Peter Costello filling in idle time this last month and still can't work out why he/they weren't wanted.


----------



## Bushman (8 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> Grow up, get a job, stop blaming others for the chip on your shoulder.




Burnsy? Quacky's point was a good one. You will find that the 'CDO' emanated from a Goldman Sachs country retreat. Also, one day when you have taken your Paulsen poster down from your bedroom wall, have a look if Goldman actually went 'short' CDO's over the last twelve-months? 

Who better to save the building than the builder hey. 

A bit more research, a bit less venting there good buddy. We are all friends here after all


----------



## MrBurns (8 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Bushman said:


> Burnsy? Quacky's point was a good one. You will find that the 'CDO' emanated from a Goldman Sachs country retreat. Also, one day when you have taken your Paulsen poster down from your bedroom wall, have a look if Goldman actually went 'short' CDO's over the last twelve-months?
> 
> Who better to save the building than the builder hey.
> 
> A bit more research, a bit less venting there good buddy. We are all friends here after all




Pish posh, if it was illegal charge them otherwise charge those who let it happen, the regulators.


----------



## Bushman (8 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> Pish posh, if it was illegal charge them otherwise charge those who let it happen, the regulators.




Goldman's will escape scrutiny. We all love a winner after all.  

Agree with the bit about the regulators. The failure is theirs. It is the 'role' of the investment bank to find, exploit and profit from gaps in regulation after all.


----------



## MrBurns (8 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Bushman said:


> Goldman's will escape scrutiny. We all love a winner after all.
> 
> Agree with the bit about the regulators. The failure is theirs. It is the 'role' of the investment bank to find, exploit and profit from gaps in regulation after all.




Goldmans are bad but they're only taking advantage of what the regulators let them do, same with tax minimization, people say it's bad but it's only tax AVOIDANCE thats against the law, a big difference.


----------



## moXJO (8 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Nashezz said:


> It's not the blind dogma thats as annoying as the straight out insults - one minute left voters are chardonnay sipping intellectual 'elitists', the next we are clueless idiots hell bent on destroying society. That is, of course, if you can believe Burns, who has given us lucky few the benefit of his insight.
> 
> I am sure, as Burns suggests, Malcolm would be able to stop the global financial crisis on his own - why hasn't the world asked him to yet?




And yet you still bite.:nono:


----------



## MrBurns (8 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



moXJO said:


> And yet you still bite.:nono:




The name's really Wayne Swan, I'm in here to try to work out whats going on, when I took this job I was told it would be a piece of cake now we have a crisis and I have to actually WORK, no fair.

I call Kev and he says Swanny mate don't ask me , I called the wife but she's at the travel agent AGAIN

I was told when I get called into a press conference they will expect me to know something so the answer to any question is 'our banking system is one of the most highly regulated in the world and we're safe" then politely walk away so they done ask me to explain any economic terms, geez I've read Costellos book cover to cover looking for clues but no luck, anyway I'll just keep poking around here to see if I can pick up anything useful.


----------



## moXJO (8 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> The name's really Wayne Swan, I'm in here to try to work out whats going on, when I took this job I was told it would be a piece of cake now we have a crisis and I have to actually WORK, no fair.
> 
> I call Kev and he says Swanny mate don't ask me , I called the wife but she's at the travel agent AGAIN
> 
> I was told when I get called into a press conference they will expect me to know something so the answer to any question is 'our banking system is one of the most highly regulated in the world and we're safe" then politely walk away so they done ask me to explain any economic terms, geez I've read Costellos book cover to cover looking for clues but no luck, anyway I'll just keep poking around here to see if I can pick up anything useful.




Lol I don’t like labor but I voted for them on the hope that their education reform might filter through. Also the fact that Rudd might bury his nose a bit deeper up china then what Howard would have. Agree that not much has been done to date but still early days and I don't think libs would do much better at the moment. If anything the libs will get to learn on the job and not take the heat if it goes belly up.

I was more suspicious that Nashezz was a union loving pr spinner


----------



## Knobby22 (8 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

I've been unimpressed with the Liberals so far during this crisis but Terry McCrann, well known right wing commentator takes it further. Read the following quotes:

"OK, I'll take Malcolm Turnbull at his word. The Opposition Leader really is an idiot and doesn't understand how financial markets work.

RBA governor Glenn Stevens gave him a 'get out of kindergarten card' yesterday. Turnbull was too stupid to take it."

and

 "It is the height of irresponsibility for an opposition leader to go blundering around in matters he doesn't understand. 

It's not just a case of the boy playing with matches in the dried-out forest; apparently this boy doesn't even know he's got matches in his hand."


Read the full article here: http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24462931-36281,00.html


----------



## nioka (8 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

While I do agree with TM in this instance, I do take anything he says with a grain of salt. In the 80s he encouraged me to take out a loan in Swiss francs, cost me over $500,000. He gave a talk at a seminar arranged by my ex-accountant and showed us graphs and charts to show how we couldn't lose. He even conned my bank manager, who ended up with "early retirement" for lending through the swiss francs deals to a lot of customers.  

Turnbull is lucky to have cashed up and got out of merchant banking in time to avoid losing all.


----------



## MrBurns (8 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



nioka said:


> While I do agree with TM in this instance, I do take anything he says with a grain of salt. In the 80s he encouraged me to take out a loan in Swiss francs, cost me over $500,000. He gave a talk at a seminar arranged by my ex-accountant and showed us graphs and charts to show how we couldn't lose. He even conned my bank manager, who ended up with "early retirement" for lending through the swiss francs deals to a lot of customers.
> 
> Turnbull is lucky to have cashed up and got out of merchant banking in time to avoid losing all.




Geez I remember the Swiss Franc thing now, I'd forgotten all about it, I was in that with a partner in a property deal, as I recall it was bad news indeed, amazing how you can block out life's little dramas, must be a self defense mechanism.


----------



## Julia (8 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Knobby22 said:


> I've been unimpressed with the Liberals so far during this crisis but Terry McCrann, well known right wing commentator takes it further. Read the following quotes:
> 
> "OK, I'll take Malcolm Turnbull at his word. The Opposition Leader really is an idiot and doesn't understand how financial markets work.
> 
> ...




Thanks for that, Knobby. Good article by TM.

  Imo Mr Turnbull has destroyed his much renowned economic credibility with this silly political grandstanding, especially making the extraordinary suggestion that it was his urging that has brought about the rate cut.


----------



## MrBurns (8 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Julia said:


> Thanks for that, Knobby. Good article by TM.
> 
> Imo Mr Turnbull has destroyed his much renowned economic credibility with this silly political grandstanding, especially making the extraordinary suggestion that it was his urging that has brought about the rate cut.




Hate to admit it but I think you're right. who do we turn to now ?

Come back Peter !!!


----------



## pepperoni (8 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

Ill say it again ... Abbott or Hockey.

I knew Howard was a dead cert for a few terms since late 80s when others thought he was a little fool.  

Just like I knew turnbull would be a pontificating buffoon.

Honesty is no 1 in aussie politics and Abbot and Hockey have it in spaded IMO.

Hockey might edge in front from a multicultural point of view.


----------



## nioka (8 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> Hate to admit it but I think you're right. who do we turn to now ?




You have them. No need to turn to anyone else. Who? The team of Rudd, Gillard and Swan. They are doing OK considering all the problems. Just give them a go, actually you don't have any say, they are there for the immediate future.


----------



## Knobby22 (8 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



nioka said:


> You have them. No need to turn to anyone else. Who? The team of Rudd, Gillard and Swan. They are doing OK considering all the problems. Just give them a go, actually you don't have any say, they are there for the immediate future.




Peter will come back in 5 years and I hope as he comes down the aisle for the Liberal convention they play the song "Jesus Christ, Superstar".

Unfortunately Malcolm is coming across as a lying merchant banker. and I'm using the w colloquilism for merchant banker.


----------



## moXJO (8 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Knobby22 said:


> Peter will come back in 5 years and I hope as he comes down the aisle for the Liberal convention they play the song "Jesus Christ, Superstar".
> 
> Unfortunately Malcolm is coming across as a lying merchant banker. and I'm using the w colloquilism for merchant banker.




I suspect the second coming of Peter will be perfectly timed with the end of the credit crunch.


----------



## IFocus (8 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> No point arguing with labor voters you're clueless otherwise Rudd wouldn't be in power now.




Thank you Mr Burns, Clueless would be talking to a Galah


----------



## Macquack (8 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> *Grow up, get a job*, stop blaming others for the chip on your shoulder.




All grown up, got a job, building contractor puting roofs over peoples heads. 

Pity its for some people with f***ing *thick heads *like you Burns.


----------



## slushy32 (8 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Julia said:


> What exactly would you have been expecting on a thread entitled "Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?"
> A forum is a place for exchange of views, not for limiting views just to those which happen to agree with your thoughts.




I am happy to hear other peoples thoughts if they are informed and thought through, not as I was saying dogmatic dribble. What ever happened to healthy political debate?


----------



## MrBurns (8 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Macquack said:


> All grown up, got a job, building contractor puting roofs over peoples heads.
> 
> Pity its for some people with f***ing *thick heads *like you Burns.




Aw gee sorry Macquack I re read your post carefully I didn't realise you were retarded. You take care now.


----------



## Macquack (8 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> Aw gee sorry Macquack I re read your post carefully *I didn't realise you were retarded*. You take care now.




What the f*** does this mean, Burns?


----------



## MrBurns (8 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Macquack said:


> What the f*** does this mean, Burns?





Just a little joke Quakka, dont worry about it, I'm not interested in arguing with you or anyone else just trying to learn a bit.


----------



## rhen (8 October 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I quote:

Last week a Freedom of Information request by the Australian revealed that the federal government’s $64 billion Future Fund, set up in 2006 from accumulated budget surpluses and the privatisation of Telstra, secretly lent unknown amounts to three of the big four banks””Westpac, the ANZ and NAB””shortly after the global crisis intensified with the collapse of the US investment bank Bear Sterns on March 16.

While the total amount of these loans is unknown, they potentially expose the Future Fund to further losses. According to calculations by the Australian, the fund, which the previous Howard government claimed would “future-proof” the Australian economy, has already lost $2 billion through investments on stock exchanges and other money markets.

In effect, behind the backs of ordinary people, the Future Fund has been bailing out the banks, together with the Rudd government and the Reserve Bank, which has been pumping billions of dollars into financial markets for months. For his part, Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has repeatedly boosted the four major banks’ standing, declaring that they have AA credit ratings. These assurances are highly dubious, given that the same ratings agencies gave AAA status to the US sub-prime loans whose disintegration sparked the financial meltdown last year.

Rudd and Treasurer Wayne Swan have also insisted that the banks are subjected to the most rigorous regulation in the world. Yet, the RBA last month reported that the banks had “off-balance sheet business” of $13.8 trillion at the end of June, compared to $5.8 trillion in June 2003. While financial analysts say most of this is not risky, if just 1 percent defaulted, it would *wipe out Australia’s banking system*. According to the Australian’s Adele Ferguson: “A big concern is the exposure of Australian banks to collateralised debt obligations, a fancy term for structured products based on bonds backed by mortgages and other consumer debt. Because they are off the balance sheet they lack transparency.”
Prime Minister Rudd immediately welcomed the RBA’s rate cut and declared that his government would also take “tough action, tough decisions” that “may not be popular” in order to ensure the stability of the banking system, which he described as the “cornerstone” of the government’s policy.

In part, his comments sought to justify his open support for the banks not passing on the full rate reduction to borrowers. More broadly, they are another warning that the Labor government will implement harsh austerity measures to impose the burden of the economic crisis on the working class in order to protect the banks and other major corporations.
Ordinary people are already bearing the brunt of the collapse of the mountain of debt that has fed the massive profits and executive salaries of the financial and corporate elite. Some 15 percent has been wiped off superannuation and other retirement funds, forcing people to postpone their retirements or try to go back to work. Tens of thousands of working class people have lost their homes, unable to pay their mortgages.

In a speech last week, Rudd blamed “greed” and “extreme capitalism” for the economic crisis. But the unrestrained accumulation of wealth in the hands of a tiny layer at the expense of the working class simply expresses the inexorable logic of the market and the profit system itself, which has compelled competing corporate giants to seek ever-greater rates of return in order to survive. Labor has fully embraced these processes. In fact, the last Labor government in the 1980s and 1990s, in concert with the US and British governments, led the way in implementing the increasing de-regulation demanded by the markets.
...the Labor government is determined to bail out and prop up those responsible for the breakdown.





http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/oct2008/econ-o08.shtml


----------



## Julia (8 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



moXJO said:


> I suspect the second coming of Peter will be perfectly timed with the end of the credit crunch.



You might be right.  I've noticed he has been putting himself out in the public eye much more lately, i.e. interviews on ABC Radio and TV, appearance on Q. & A,etc.
I'd thought it was in aid of selling his book which he mentions in every second sentence, but perhaps there is indeed an underlying political motive.

I'm really disappointed in Malcolm Turnbull.  Had expected better.

Wayne Swan has been performing much better than I'd expected.
All up, it would be hard to find any objective and reasonable criticism of the way the government is handling this very difficult situation.


----------



## Nashezz (9 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> But Nash mate, you are all those things, and Mr.Burns is a certified genius. Everywhere you go people point at you and say "Thats Nashezz, the chardonnay sipping intellectual 'elitist'. On the bus, in the newsagent, at the servo and when you are buying your tickets for some left wing play about a one legged gay nun who discovers Brecht.
> 
> Mr. Burns on the other hand has carers who wheel him about, show his certificate of genius  to him frequently and take him to reruns of the Sound of Music.
> 
> ...




hehe GG. Your probably not far off with Burns anyway...


----------



## MrBurns (9 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Nashezz said:


> hehe GG. Your probably not far off with Burns anyway...




Look at them, Smithers. Goldbrickers.... Layabouts.... Slug-a-beds! Little do they realise their days of suckling at my teat are numbered.


----------



## moXJO (9 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Julia said:


> You might be right.  I've noticed he has been putting himself out in the public eye much more lately, i.e. interviews on ABC Radio and TV, appearance on Q. & A,etc.
> I'd thought it was in aid of selling his book which he mentions in every second sentence, but perhaps there is indeed an underlying political motive.
> 
> I'm really disappointed in Malcolm Turnbull.  Had expected better.
> ...




Yes was watching him on Q & A the other night. Came across a touch arrogant, but a lot more likeable the more I see him. Possible he is shining up his image before he walks in to save the economy. Probably just before it turns bullish by itself. This might just coincide within earshot of an election year.


----------



## Aussiejeff (10 October 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Hooray! *[size=+1]$uperKrudd[/size]* and his sidekick *[size=+1]Boy $wanDiver[/size]* are going to _SAVE THE WORLD_ from the nasty *[size=+2]Stay Puft Marshmallow Man[/size]* terrorising the NYSE!!!! :horse:

REJOICE!  :jump:


----------



## noco (10 October 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Six months ago Krudd and his (Rooster) sorry Swan complained about what they had inherited from the Howard/Costello Government and how  bad they had left the economy.

Yesterday, they are now saying our country and its economy is in very good shape. I wonder why? Are they worried that the Aussie people might go into their shells with the threat of recession and not spend. So ramp it up a bit Kevvie but don't forget to thank John and Peter for the excellant shape of our economy that was handed to you.

Last month Swan pointed his finger at the Bank Johnnies and insisted they pass on all of any interest rate cuts. This month they have back-flipped and said , well fellows,  we don't mind if  you kept a bit for yourselves.

Does Rudd inspire me; you have got to be kiding!


----------



## nioka (10 October 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

NOCO.
So, in you opinion, we can blame those stupid labor voters for crashing the economy of the USA. What would Turnbull, with his merchant bank history do now. Probably talk to a hedge fund and do some margin borrowing to fund our future maybe. Give it a break. Rudd is doing as much as anyone can expect. If you can do better then run for a seat in parliament or at least offer some constructive practical suggestions. What do YOU think should and could be done.


----------



## moXJO (10 October 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



nioka said:


> NOCO.
> So, in you opinion, we can blame those stupid labor voters for crashing the economy of the USA. What would Turnbull, with his merchant bank history do now. Probably talk to a hedge fund and do some margin borrowing to fund our future maybe. Give it a break. Rudd is doing as much as anyone can expect. If you can do better then run for a seat in parliament or at least offer some constructive practical suggestions. What do YOU think should and could be done.




I think the carbon tax 2010 might be a big issue if the financial world markets drag for too long. I mentioned this in another thread somewhere.Seems libs are jumping on it as well.


----------



## noco (10 October 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



nioka said:


> NOCO.
> So, in you opinion, we can blame those stupid labor voters for crashing the economy of the USA. What would Turnbull, with his merchant bank history do now. Probably talk to a hedge fund and do some margin borrowing to fund our future maybe. Give it a break. Rudd is doing as much as anyone can expect. If you can do better then run for a seat in parliament or at least offer some constructive practical suggestions. What do YOU think should and could be done.




Nioka, the thread is titled "Does Rudd inspire confidence?

How can any one have confidence in this man if he is not consistant and that was my point?

I did not pass an opinion as you suggest, that is your own assumption.

What I believe he should be doing is being honest with the Australian people.
If Rudd won't sit down and discuss these problems with  Turnbull, I doubt whether he would listen to me LOL.


----------



## DOC (11 October 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

how can one have confidence in someone that chooses Julia Gillard (former union heavyweight) as a deputy!!!
what a great time to have a weak government at the helm!!


----------



## Calliope (16 October 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Like the majority of Australians I have complete faith in Kevin Rudd. Those of little faith doubt his ability to achieve his stated goals which are many, however world leaders are continually waiting on Mr  Rudd for further guidance on running their affairs.

He is now going to tell them on how to separate greed from capitalism.


----------



## moXJO (16 October 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Its ok Turnbull thinks he is PM. He is already addressing the nation. In fact I think I have noticed him around with much more to say to the public then Rudd. Turnbull seems to have a slightly stronger stance in what to do. But Rudd and Tbull at times change their tune pretty quick about what is happening.


----------



## Duckman#72 (16 October 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Like the majority of Australians I have complete faith in Kevin Rudd. Those of little faith doubt his ability to achieve his stated goals which are many, however world leaders are continually waiting on Mr  Rudd for further guidance on running their affairs.
> 
> He is now going to tell them on how to separate greed from capitalism.




That is classic!!! Sometimes you just find little gems on ASF.


----------



## Julia (16 October 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

You just beat me to it, Duckman.

Just beautiful, Calliope!


----------



## So_Cynical (16 October 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I must say ive lost confidence in Kevin since the economic stimulus joke, 
hes very much a politician...u know taking soft easy options that look 
good on the surface and are easy to sell...but actually do very little.

I cant believe he pissed 10 billion up against a wall....and the media let 
him get away with it.

I voted Labor


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (17 October 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Kev07 is doing what John Howard would have done. Its good to have a Liberal PM still in Canberra.

Lindsay Tanner is impressive.

It would be interesting to see how he would go as a real Labor PM.

gg


----------



## Kauri (17 October 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

No

  Cheers
..............Kauri


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (17 October 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Kauri said:


> No
> 
> Cheers
> ..............Kauri





oft little is less , expand mate.

gg


----------



## Kauri (17 October 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> oft little is less , expand mate.
> 
> gg





in Wednesday's carnage NDZ almost hit the bottom seen last Friday, while the financials heavy SPZ did not even come close. That action suggests that hedge funds have been in complete purge mode - indeed Citadel's largest hedge fund, Kensington Global Strategies Fund, is down more than 30% this year. These are glaring examples of forced selling and thus what bottoms are made of - perhaps any purchases of SPZ or NDZ here, will yield significant gains well before year end.   
 now if Kev came out with something intelligent like that instead of his obtuse, pontificating, politically motivated non-statements suggesting that the world should listen to his ... or was it Big Mals...  theory on fixing the worlds financial ills, I might sit up and take notice... but hey, if we buy it, they will keep on selling it, ad nauseum... or maybe ad nauseous..

Cheers
.........an expanded Kauri


----------



## Nashezz (17 October 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Julia agreeing with and praising  Callidope and Duckman!!

Holy cow, well, these are strange days indeed.


----------



## Julia (17 October 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Nashezz said:


> Julia agreeing with and praising  Callidope and Duckman!!
> 
> Holy cow, well, these are strange days indeed.



This strange remark indicates that you have some misguided idea about me, Nashez.   I can think of very few instances where I wouldn't have shown interest in, and respect for, the views of both Calliope and Duckman.

I'd appreciate your clarifying what you mean.


----------



## Nashezz (18 October 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Look I'm drunk so you can forgive/pardon whatever I say as drunken ravings but Duckman and Calliope have produced some of the more raving/less lucid posts in my experience. Despite your 'new-found' aversion to Rudd, surprised you can see either of them as being funny or relevant. Just my thoughts - no doubt you have your valid reasons.


----------



## Calliope (18 October 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Nashezz said:


> Look I'm drunk so you can forgive/pardon whatever I say as drunken ravings but Duckman and Calliope have produced some of the more raving/less lucid posts in my experience. Despite your 'new-found' aversion to Rudd, surprised you can see either of them as being funny or relevant. Just my thoughts - no doubt you have your valid reasons.




Thanks Nashezz. It's good to know that I can always rely on you to let me know when I'm on target.


----------



## Julia (18 October 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Nashezz said:


> Look I'm drunk so you can forgive/pardon whatever I say as drunken ravings but Duckman and Calliope have produced some of the more raving/less lucid posts in my experience. Despite your 'new-found' aversion to Rudd, surprised you can see either of them as being funny or relevant. Just my thoughts - no doubt you have your valid reasons.




Maybe sober up and then read their posts again.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (18 October 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I'm no great fan of Labor , but Rudd is doing a good job at present.

He shows no sign of panic.

His utterances are measured and apt.

His plans for the nation make sense at this point in time.

He seems more assured than other leaders eg Sarkozy, Bush, and old one eyed Gordon seem quite frightened in the glare.

I'd give him 9/10 at present.

gg


----------



## Julia (19 October 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> I'm no great fan of Labor , but Rudd is doing a good job at present.
> 
> He shows no sign of panic.
> 
> ...



WOW!


----------



## BradK (19 October 2008)

*Kevin and Kochie*

Just watched the Seven program with Kevin Rudd answering questions about the economy from Australians. 

I especially liked the question about people being able to use their super to pay off their own houses. 

12 months I would have said it was a silly idea - but, if I was retiring in two years and seeing my super fall before my eyes like this... well... 

Brad


----------



## xoa (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*

Think carefully before taking advise from Koch.


----------



## gfresh (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*

Already is isn't it?

Government's superannuation fund is being used to invest directly in in cash-like accounts with the banks = big capital for the banks.

The government has also been buying locally issued RMBS, and plans to buy billions worth - http://ministers.treasury.gov.au/Di...08/107.htm&pageID=003&min=wms&Year=&DocType=0


----------



## So_Cynical (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*

Rudd is a pure politician...im officially disgusted....all rudd could offer were simplistic and politically palatable answers.


----------



## kenny (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*

The interview has served it's purpose. It's encouraged discussion about the topic and hopefully showed Rudd as supposedly in touch with those who are suffering that watch Kochie.

Regardless of what I think of Koch's advice, he does have a strong and loyal following that Rudd would be silly not to try and get onside.

Playing a political game as always. Hopefully not to the detriment of actually doing something to help.

Cheers,

Kenny


----------



## robots (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*

hello,

you need a financial adviser license dont you?

thankyou
robots


----------



## Ageo (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*

I especially chuckled when Kevin 07 said "the time to buy property is now!"

lol sucker buyers........


----------



## kenny (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*



robots said:


> hello,
> 
> you need a financial adviser license dont you?
> 
> ...




lol. I wonder what the financial advisers out there are "advising" their clients now. Wouldn't want to be in their shoes.

Cheers,

Kenny


----------



## Smurf1976 (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*



robots said:


> you need a financial adviser license dont you?



Actually that's a very valid point. Kevin is not, to my understanding at least, in any way qualified to be giving financial advise to anyone. But he's gone and done it on national TV.

So surely at the very least it ought to now be OK for you, me and everyone else to give "financial advise" by any means we see fit? If not, why not?


----------



## Smurf1976 (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*



Ageo said:


> I especially chuckled when Kevin 07 said "the time to buy property is now!"
> 
> lol sucker buyers........



Politicians aren't completely stupid. I take that as a quiet hint that we're about to see massive inflation (seriously). 

It's unlikely that a politician would back themselves into a corner like that if they weren't pretty confident that prices would at least break even before they were held to account (ie at the next election).

That was probably the closest thing we'll get to an admission of what's planned IMO. Inflation, inflation and more inflation.


----------



## chops_a_must (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*



kenny said:


> lol. I wonder what the financial advisers out there are "advising" their clients now. Wouldn't want to be in their shoes.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Kenny




The same thing as always.

Whatever gives them the biggest commission.


----------



## robots (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*



chops_a_must said:


> The same thing as always.
> 
> Whatever gives them the biggest commission.




hello,

nah, you think so chops? 

thankyou
robots


----------



## BradK (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*

I dont think he gave any specific financial advice to anybody on the show... he even said as much to the first lady. 

He is a politician... even if he was licenced, politicians dont do specific. 

Again, I'm hoping that they'll let me take my super out to pay off my house. 

Am I dreaming? Are pigs flying? 

One comment is ringing in my ears from last week. Bush, assembled before the world's media, said that the crisis needed to be confronted so that we could return to 'vigorous growth'. 

Are we supposed to spend? Or pay off debt? Which is it? I know that I am taking the later - even with the $1000 I will get for my daughter. Wasted that on me. 

Many thanks to all you tax payers out there for that. 

Brad


----------



## Nyden (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*



BradK said:


> Are we supposed to spend? Or pay off debt? Which is it? I know that I am taking the later - even with the $1000 I will get for my daughter. Wasted that on me.
> 
> Many thanks to all you tax payers out there for that.
> 
> Brad




I hope you're kidding Brad? Why would you take money intended for your daughter and use it for yourself? I would at least be happy if my tax-dollars were put aside for the future education of many youngsters, but clearly you do not deserve $1000 if you've just blown it on yourself?


 ... no, it isn't going to help the economy either. That's beyond help at this point 

Oh, and no - I cannot see super ever being used to pay off a house; unless it's an investment property placed within a SMSF!


----------



## wallyt99 (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*

Hello, 

Add New User to List

Ignore List
robots

Thankyou,

Wally.


----------



## nunthewiser (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*



wallyt99 said:


> Hello,
> 
> Add New User to List
> 
> ...




LOL

yes that should fix everything

might as well add me too 

i am known to have alternative views also

thankyou


----------



## nunthewiser (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*

Hey robots 

you should be proud 

you have started a whole new typing trend

it includes manners , politeness, and weird typing

thankyou


----------



## wallyt99 (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*

Hmmm.... don't tempt me.



It's not his views that I object to.  It is that he is an outright arrogant uneducated smartarse tool.


Thankyou.


----------



## chops_a_must (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*



nunthewiser said:


> Hey robots
> 
> you should be proud
> 
> ...



Hello,

And shows a tendency to be illiterate.

Thankyou.


----------



## nunthewiser (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*



wallyt99 said:


> Hmmm.... don't tempt me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




mmmmmmmmmm yes your above post sure is screaming sophistication, education and humility, 

luv ya work


----------



## nunthewiser (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*



chops_a_must said:


> Hello,
> 
> And shows a tendency to be illiterate.
> 
> Thankyou.




illiterates of the world unite!

its a brand new world bruthha!


----------



## chops_a_must (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*



nunthewiser said:


> illiterates of the world unite!
> 
> its a brand new world bruthha!



Hello.

It sure is the age of idiocracy.

Be proud to be stupid.

Thankyou.


----------



## nunthewiser (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*



chops_a_must said:


> Hello.
> 
> It sure is the age of idiocracy.
> 
> ...




tut tut...........

funny how the less mentally gifted always have to resort to insults when spoken to in a way they dont understand the humour attached

ya get that


----------



## chops_a_must (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*



nunthewiser said:


> tut tut...........
> 
> funny how the less mentally gifted always have to resort to insults when spoken to in a way they dont understand the humour attached
> 
> ya get that



Hello.

I understand the humour attached.

I just don't think abuse of the English language should be lauded or encouraged, and is certainly not in least bit funny when literacy standards in the modern world are abysmal.

And yet you call those that use the language correctly, less mentally gifted?

Thankyou.


----------



## nunthewiser (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*



chops_a_must said:


> Hello.
> 
> And yet you call those that use the language correctly, less mentally gifted?
> 
> Thankyou.




no i call those that resort to insults in there replys lacking in the mentality department to reply in a mature and civil manner ,

my post was a joke , had nothing to do with the english language and i apologise if it was not in the manner deemed appropriate to you


----------



## chops_a_must (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*



nunthewiser said:


> no i call those that resort to insults in there replys lacking in the mentality department to reply in a mature and civil manner ,
> 
> my post was a joke , had nothing to do with the english language and i apologise if it was not in the manner deemed appropriate to you




Hello.

Can you please repeat whatever it was you wrote there in a readable manner.

Thankyou.


----------



## nunthewiser (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*



chops_a_must said:


> Hello.
> 
> Can you please repeat whatever it was you wrote there in a readable manner.
> 
> Thankyou.




LOL

if i knew how to write it correctly the first time i would have done so!


----------



## chops_a_must (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*



nunthewiser said:


> LOL
> 
> if i knew how to write it correctly the first time i would have done so!




I don't know how people like yourself get by to be honest.


----------



## nunthewiser (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*



chops_a_must said:


> I don't know how people like yourself get by to be honest.




um 

i left school at 14 

i worked for a builder from 14 to 17

at 18 i bought my own machinery and created one of the first limestone retaining sub divisional companys in perth

at 21 i bought my first house

at 23 i bought 2 more

at 25 i sold limestone business to a bigger fish ( stoneridge)

at 25 i bought a reconstituted limestone manufacturing plant

at 27 i bought another house

at 30 i sold manufacturing plant

traveled for 3 years

at 33 i sold all properties and invested in a number of asx listed companies

at 36 i bought real estate in geraldton wa 

at 41 i am mortgae free of 2 not too shabby properties , i have a small mortgae on a residential subdivision i am currently seling block off , i am sitting on 7 years of asx provided cash and i hold 4 investment stocks 

not bad for someone that cant type hey

ps i have spell check for any letters/correspondence i do outside of chatrooms darl .

i do hope this helps with your query


----------



## nunthewiser (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*

i should also add that i currently hold another income producing asset in the transport industry and have another business in geraldton that i no longer need to be involved in hands on 

but hey i dunno how i did it without typing kills


----------



## chops_a_must (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*

Got nothing to do with typing skills, it's called being literate.

But well done.


----------



## Julia (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*



chops_a_must said:


> The same thing as always.
> 
> Whatever gives them the biggest commission.



Yes, I agree.   Any idealistic notion that financial planners/advisers exist for the benefit of their clients is naive in the extreme.

I know several people, either retired or about to retire, whose financial advisers (to whom they pay megabucks, apparently in ignorance of the many streams of commission falling into the hands of the advisers from the various funds) have told them "don't worry about anything, just hold on and it will all be fine".

Meanwhile they have watched their capital dwindle in hundreds of thousands.  They are not in a position to go back to work to replace this lost capital.


The fact that if they'd been advised to switch to cash ,maybe at the beginning of this year, the advisers would have had their income streams switched off would never occur to them.


----------



## nunthewiser (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*

not after a badge

just pointing out that schooling is not the be all and end all of ones start on there road of life


----------



## chops_a_must (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*



nunthewiser said:


> not after a badge
> 
> just pointing out that schooling is not the be all and end all of ones start on there road of life



But when lawyers and judges start analysing your notes, it certainly helps.

I wouldn't employ someone with such appalling literacy, and anyone would be negligent to do so, for that exact reason.


----------



## nunthewiser (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*



chops_a_must said:


> But when lawyers and judges start analysing your notes, it certainly helps.
> 
> I wouldn't employ someone with such appalling literacy, and anyone would be negligent to do so, for that exact reason.




yes but thats the thing , IF im hiring a lawyer im paying for his previous schooling and the thing is I am hiring him . get it ? my unschooled dollars are paying his bills........ same as if i wanted a bobcat operator , i wouldnt hire one that had a piece of paper saying he did a course , i would hire one that could drive the machine...... 

i have no asperations to be a lawyer or a judge and admit that with my SCHOOL educational skills i would be peesin in the wind even to think about trying . But i do have asperations to travel the world like grasshopper totally self funded  while leaving a nice little step up for those close to me by the time im 50 and so far im pretty darn close to it....

i suppose its what one wants out of life , if you want to be a lawyer/judge/brain surgeon  one must learn the skills involved .
if one wants to be a early retiring bogan that uses spellcheck when needed, so be it


----------



## moXJO (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*



chops_a_must said:


> But when lawyers and judges start analysing your notes, it certainly helps.
> 
> I wouldn't employ someone with such appalling literacy, and anyone would be negligent to do so, for that exact reason.



Way Off topic but 
I think occupation can have a lot to do with it. Eighteen or so years in the building industry have turned my handwriting into child like squiggles. And my literacy and grammar struggle at the best of times(I came in at the top 1% for English in NSW at school yr 10 as well). If you constantly use it in your profession, then obviously it’s a kept skill. If your work is mainly hands on then it’s easily lost. The use of computers makes the paperwork easier. That and hire underlings to do it.
Some of the richest men I know personally have terrible literacy so I don’t think it’s that much of a burden. Funny that a lot started off a lot like Nun.


----------



## nunthewiser (19 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*

yeah back on topic .......... rudd makes a good hand puppet and kochie needs a "dr phil" like show


----------



## c-unit (20 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*



Smurf1976 said:


> Politicians aren't completely stupid. I take that as a quiet hint that we're about to see massive inflation (seriously).
> 
> It's unlikely that a politician would back themselves into a corner like that if they weren't pretty confident that prices would at least break even before they were held to account (ie at the next election).
> 
> That was probably the closest thing we'll get to an admission of what's planned IMO. Inflation, inflation and more inflation.




Hey guys,

Is someone able to explain this to me? I'm fairly new here. I don't see the connection as to how Rudd saying to buy property is linked to what he expects inflation to be. 

Cheers


----------



## Aussiejeff (20 October 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Did K.Rudd inspire confidence on the TV Spectacular last night? I wouldn't know. Wasn't particularly bothered to watch.....

Did any fans sit it out?

Mark out of 10?


----------



## chops_a_must (20 October 2008)

*Re: Kevin and Kochie*



nunthewiser said:


> yes but thats the thing , IF im hiring a lawyer im paying for his previous schooling and the thing is I am hiring him . get it ? my unschooled dollars are paying his bills........ same as if i wanted a bobcat operator , i wouldnt hire one that had a piece of paper saying he did a course , i would hire one that could drive the machine......



I think you missed the point...

It's not about hiring a lawyer, it's about someone hiring a lawyer to sue your ass off, or being taken to court for decisions you have made.

The damage can be a lot less if you have, or hire people with good literacy, so they don't write something stupid, or things that can be misinterpreted.

Generally, the higher the personal responsibility and potential harm, the greater the need for a higher degree of literacy standards.

And moxjo, yes, granted. But I think you may be confusing literacy and legibility somewhat.

There are also different types of intelligence. The dux in my year nearly failed English, and I think they would have failed him if they didn't need him to pass it for that.

Even still, the most successful people I have known, financial and otherwise, have above average literacy and numeracy skills.

And then you just get people like Bush as well...


----------



## MrBurns (27 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



> Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has announced an additional $100,000 grant to the National Breast and Ovarian Cancer Centre.




$100k for cancer and $10.5 B for the bailout of bastards.


----------



## Happy (27 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> $100k for cancer and $10.5 B for the bailout of bastards.





You get the feeling, that if it was more important, surely cancer research would be granted more money.


----------



## --B-- (27 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> $100k for cancer and $10.5 B for the bailout of bastards.




im far from a rudd supporter but who are these bastards you refer to?

working families? 

do you think Rudd should have given 10.5bn to breast cancer research?


----------



## MrBurns (27 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



--B-- said:


> im far from a rudd supporter but who are these bastards you refer to?
> 
> working families?
> 
> do you think Rudd should have given 10.5bn to breast cancer research?





I dont think "working families" will get much of the $10.5 B

Perhaps it might be just me but the irony of throwing a peanut to cancer research while pulling out all stops to prelong the property bubble and share boom seems a little out of whack ?


----------



## --B-- (27 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> I dont think "working families" will get much of the $10.5 B




again, im no fan of rudd or this 10.5bn package but obviously, many of those eligible for the 1k per child handout are what kev refers to when sprouting his 'working families' line.


----------



## MrBurns (27 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



--B-- said:


> again, im no fan of rudd or this 10.5bn package but obviously, many of those eligible for the 1k per child handout are what kev refers to when sprouting his 'working families' line.




Yes once again throwing a peanut to appease the masses and hoping they'll *SPEND* it rather than save or retire debt. I don't think $1k will help them all that much as he expects it to be spent at Harvey Norman but $100K for cancer ? get real.


----------



## --B-- (27 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> Yes once again throwing a peanut to appease the masses and hoping they'll *SPEND* it rather than save or retire debt. I don't think $1k will help them all that much as he expects it to be spent at Harvey Norman but $100K for cancer ? get real.




well the quote you provided states 'additional' and the breast and ovarian centre is already a federally funded organisation so im guessing this is a typical rudd stunt to gain a few brownie points.


----------



## MrBurns (27 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



--B-- said:


> well the quote you provided states 'additional' and the breast and ovarian centre is already a federally funded organisation so im guessing this is a typical rudd stunt to gain a few brownie points.




The original funding must be a bare minimum pissweak effort if there's a big announcement for $100k extra.


----------



## Julia (27 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

Mr Burns, do you also resent the portion of the $10.5bn which is going to pensioners?


----------



## MrBurns (27 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Julia said:


> Mr Burns, do you also resent the portion of the $10.5bn which is going to pensioners?




I don't resent anything Julia.

They should be getting extra per week, this is just a payoff to shut them up for the moment.


----------



## --B-- (27 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> The original funding must be a bare minimum pissweak effort if there's a big announcement for $100k extra.




well here is a quick something i found on the net which really just supports my assetrion that Rudd, the king of pathetic stunts has just done it again.. because $100k really is a drop in the ocean compared to what the govt already tips in each year:



> *$31.0 million has been allocated over five years to the National Breast and Ovarian Cancer Centre (NBOCC) *for breast prostheses. This measure will provide women with a subsidy for the purchase of breast prostheses, and allow for the replacement of prostheses every two to five years. This commitment was also made during the 2007 federal election campaign.
> BCNA has been advocating for many years for a national prosthesis subsidy program and welcomes this commitment.  We look forward to working with the NBOCC to assist in the development of this program.
> The funding for additional Breast Care Nurses and the Breast Prostheses subsidy program are part of the Australian Government's ‘National Cancer Plan'. Th*e National Cancer Plan, which includes a wide range of cancer initiatives, has received total funding of $249 million* for this budget period.
> Additional funding for hospitals has also been a significant feature in this federal budget. BCNA will continue to advocate on behalf of women with breast cancer to ensure that these budget allocations contribute to improving women's treatment and care.



http://www.bcna.org.au/content/view/849/477/


----------



## 2020hindsight (27 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

I'm sure if Joe McCain lived in Aus, he'd be pissed off with Rudd as well lol. 

PS nice family lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_9brEfdoA0&NR=1


----------



## moXJO (31 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

Is the whole education revolution still going ahead? 
Or has the reason I voted for labor been watered down?


----------



## MrBurns (31 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



moXJO said:


> Is the whole education revolution still going ahead?
> Or has the reason I voted for labor been watered down?




You didn't fall for that old line did you ?

Unless there's a talk fest (preferably overseas) including lunch, wine and rubbing shoulders with famous and successful people he wont bother doing anything about that right up until just before (you guessed it ) the next election.


----------



## moXJO (31 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> You didn't fall for that old line did you ?
> 
> Unless there's a talk fest (preferably overseas) including lunch, wine and rubbing shoulders with famous and successful people he wont bother doing anything about that right up until just before (you guessed it ) the next election.




It was in my opinion one of the things this country needed the most. So I was willing to make a change. I would have been happy with a portion of that $10.whatever billion going towards education. I was also naive to think with labor in state(NSW) and fed that we may see faster progress  ooops

I have not heard much about it mentioned lately 

On a side note and off topic NSW state govt on both sides suck hard there is no point even voting they are that bad.


----------



## MrBurns (31 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



moXJO said:


> It was in my opinion one of the things this country needed the most. So I was willing to make a change. I would have been happy with a portion of that $10.whatever billion going towards education. I was also naive to think with labor in state(NSW) and fed that we may see faster progress  ooops
> 
> I have not heard much about it mentioned lately
> 
> On a side note and off topic NSW state govt on both sides suck hard there is no point even voting they are that bad.




Here's some news on it but I also saw somewhere that he is being urged to "rethink" it, not sure where I saw that.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/10/22/2397620.htm


----------



## Calliope (31 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

Mr Rudd has come up with a new pet word. It is "jag." He told Kerry O'Brien on the 7.30 report last night that by leading the world in positive action for reducing global emissions he will "jag" the world community into following suit.

No doubt all the world leaders are watching closely for more world leadership gems.


----------



## MrBurns (31 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Calliope said:


> Mr Rudd has come up with a new pet word. It is "jag." He told Kerry O'Brien on the 7.30 report last night that by leading the world in positive action for reducing global emissions he will "jag" the world community into following suit.
> 
> No doubt all the world leaders are watching closely for more world leadership gems.




His IQ isn't all that high , he thinks he knows better then anyone else but he was just lucky enough to be leading the Labor party when John Howard had run out of steam. He will also revolutionize language and find a cure for all illnesses instruct the globe on how to run finances and teach James Bond how to be a better spy, the mans a freeking genius ........in his own mind.


----------



## rederob (31 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> His IQ isn't all that high....



Everything is comparative.
From the tripe I see you spit out here it looks like Rudd is truly in the genius category.
Then again, coming off such a low base, I guess we'll have to redefine genius from your perspective.


----------



## MrBurns (31 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



rederob said:


> Everything is comparative.
> From the tripe I see you spit out here it looks like Rudd is truly in the genius category.
> Then again, coming off such a low base, I guess we'll have to redefine genius from your perspective.




Oh dear me your hero has been maligned or is it more like, accurately defined.

Have you been told today rederob ? No ? well consider it done.


----------



## fimmwolf (31 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> $100k for cancer and $10.5 B for the bailout of bastards.




funny, I was thinking those bastards are a cancer. 

If Mrs Rudd had cancer maybe the milky bar kid would see it different. But then again, I'm sure he can afford the best care for his wife.


----------



## rederob (31 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> Oh dear me your hero has been maligned or is it more like, accurately defined.
> 
> Have you been told today rederob ? No ? well consider it done.



MrBurns
I have read many of your posts in this and other threads where you specifically target present federal members of parliament.
Your bent is obvious, and it matches your lack of understanding of political processes and financial markets.
What I note is your inability to substantiate an argument or defend it with logic or reasoned thought, viz:


> $100k for cancer and $10.5 B for the bailout of bastards.



Like it or not our government is largely in step with other nation's efforts to stem the financial bloodletting going on.  Indeed, it's acting more quickly than most and is trying its hardest to lead by example.
There is no book telling countries what has to be done in these circumstances, and arguing the toss about a "cap" or no cap on bank deposits, or what can be guaranteed, and what should have a fee paid in order for a guarantee to be effective, falls into the Turnbull bipartisan camp for egomaniacs.
I listened to Turnbull again today finding a powerful voice in private enterprise agreeing with one of his earlier positions.  That's all good and well, but Turnbull is not in power, and he has also been told clearly what his party needs to do before the government will consider his hand of bipartisanship.
I'm impressed with Rudd's efforts to date.
He certainly cuts a better image of a leader than Bush in the present climate: Articulate, knowledgeable, and decisive.  He's also injected some honesty by fessing up to not knowing exactly how some things will impact, but determining to respond wherever consequences are dire.

On the issue of honesty, I am unclear about what it is that I have "been told" by you.  I surmised it was that Rudd really is a genius, but your intent might have separated from your non-senses.


----------



## treefrog (31 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



rederob said:


> I'm impressed with Rudd's efforts to date.
> He certainly cuts a better image of a leader than Bush in the present climate: Articulate, knowledgeable, and decisive.




red; saying he is better than bush is not saying anything for him at all - you might mean he is twice as good but I would rate Bush (1-10) as a one so that would put Rudd as a 2.
as for articulate, you might be on your own there as a number of international media commentators have found Rudd a point of merriment with his ruddisms and boring accademic lectures. (admitedly he appears to be trying to get a handle on this of late)
but as a true swinging voter i quite enjoy Burns' "to the point" obsevations and comment - similar to clarke and dawe


----------



## MrBurns (31 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



rederob said:


> MrBurns
> I have read many of your posts in this and other threads where you specifically target present federal members of parliament.
> Your bent is obvious, and it matches your lack of understanding of political processes and financial markets.
> What I note is your inability to substantiate an argument or defend it with logic or reasoned thought, viz:
> ...




I go somewhat by gut feel and Rudd leaves me cold as do the sycophants that try to justify every move he makes , which brings me to you, you also don't make sense to those that really think about things.

You're a Labor ***** and  a boor so don't try and apologize for Rudd anymore it's just embarrassing.


----------



## rederob (31 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> You're a Labor ***** and  a boor so don't try and apologize for Rudd anymore it's just embarrassing.



You don't get much right do you.
I prefer to vote "independent" first if there is a good candidate, and then Green.
I readily admit that Howard was not my favourite politician.  He lied to Costello, misled the public on numerous contentious matters, and squandered the best years in Australia's economic history on nothing in particular (unless you include the GST).

treefrog
I would have compared Rudd to many other leaders, but I suspect MrBurns could not tell the difference between President Giovanni Cardinal Lajolo and Prime Minister Geir Hilmar Haarde, or Alan Gabriel Ludwig GarcÃ­a PÃ©rez and Yehude Simon Munaro, let alone Marcus Stephen, Stephen King, King Abdullah, and Abdullah Ahmad Badawi.


----------



## Julia (31 October 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



rederob said:


> M
> Like it or not our government is largely in step with other nation's efforts to stem the financial bloodletting going on.



That's true, but it remains to be seen whether these actions are effective.
They involve no small degree of moral hazard at least.



> Indeed, it's acting more quickly than most and is trying its hardest to lead by example.



Ah, here we have what Mr Rudd is all about.   He seems to see himself as a latter day Messiah, his mission being to put the world at large to rights.
However, to suggest that he was the leader in the guaranteeing of bank deposits is completely wrong.  He did it reluctantly to prevent funds going offshore to other banks (originally the Bank of Ireland) who had already guaranteed deposits.  No credit to Mr Rudd or Mr Swan in this.  
Moreover we have subsequently seen the ramifications of their unlimited guarantee - a total dislocation of the financial system.  Had Mr Turnbull's advice of capping the guarantee at $100K been heeded, it's unlikely that the redemptions from the non-bank funds would have proceeded at any greater rate than was already happening as a result of people feeling worried about the market linked funds.




> There is no book telling countries what has to be done in these circumstances, and arguing the toss about a "cap" or no cap on bank deposits, or what can be guaranteed, and what should have a fee paid in order for a guarantee to be effective, falls into the Turnbull bipartisan camp for egomaniacs.



Nonsense.  As above the cap or non-cap does in fact make a considerable difference.




> I listened to Turnbull again today finding a powerful voice in private enterprise agreeing with one of his earlier positions.  That's all good and well, but Turnbull is not in power, and he has also been told clearly what his party needs to do before the government will consider his hand of bipartisanship.



Has he?  It must have passed me by.  Could you explain exactly what Mr Turnbull is, umm, required to do and who exactly says so?



> I'm impressed with Rudd's efforts to date.



I suppose this all depends on the base from which you are judging.
I spoke with someone the other day who declared Mr Rudd has charisma!!!
He may be quite intelligent, process driven, hard working, determined and possessed of many other features, but to suggest this robotic person has charisma was, I thought, quite extraordinary.




> He certainly cuts a better image of a leader than Bush in the present climate:



Ah, now we understand the base from which you feel able to make the earlier comment.   To offer that he is better than Bush hardly represents any sort of valid endorsement.




> Articulate, knowledgeable, and decisive.  He's also injected some honesty by fessing up to not knowing exactly how some things will impact, but determining to respond wherever consequences are dire.



Yes, indeed, even if means going off half cocked as they did with the unlimited guarantee.  All for the sake of appearing decisive.  A bit more thoughtfulness might have been a good thing.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (1 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

Rudd is an interesting bloke.

He is intelligent and has an incredible grasp of bureaucracy.

I believe he did the correct thing recently in his guarantee of bank deposits though in retrospect he could have done it better. Couldn't we all.

He is also a pigeon toed, godbothering, ear wax nibbler who didn't have the balls to get a r**t in one of the best brothels in New York, he got pissed and maudling and confessed to momma.

All of these I can forgive.

He is human though weak. 

So far Australia is managing well in this crisis.

Imagine if we had Keating in charge!!!

So lets support the little bastard, Turnbull though looks better by the day.

gg


----------



## rederob (1 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

It's always interesting to see another's perspective.
Turnbull rightly pointed out quite early in the piece that the "retail" sector of the market was a very different kettle of fish to mum and dad depositors at banks.
The retail sector literally deals in deposit sizes a million times that of mums and dads.  However, while mums and dads are making millions of deposits on a regular basis, the retail sector's rate is a mere trifle.
The issue with the retail sector was that "guarantees" were essential, else the mechanisms of all trade would fail.  Not just here, but everywhere.  Unfortunately this detail seems to have escaped most people's attention.
The issue for mum and dads was whether or not they would make a run on the banks, and had nothing to do with everyone wanting to put their money into Irish banks: As if Ireland could guarantee deposits for its own, let alone others!
Turnbull is a turncoat on bipartisanship.  He is either supportive of government actions in the matter, or not.  Instead, he say he is and then goes on to score points of difference, through regular "I told you sos" or "if they'd listened to me this wouldn't have happened".  Turnbull's blocking billions of revenue dollars through Senate rejection of various Bills, and he's been told that if he wants bipartisanship from government it can start by passing those Bills.
On Rudd, what is apparent in this thread are emotive attacks supported by a poor understanding of politics and markets.
But I guess in the present climate having a mortgage on ignorance probably means someone smarter will come along, repackage it, and flog it on to another sucker.


----------



## MrBurns (1 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



rederob said:


> On Rudd, what is apparent in this thread are emotive attacks supported by a poor understanding of politics and markets.
> But I guess in the present climate having a mortgage on ignorance probably means someone smarter will come along, repackage it, and flog it on to another sucker.




Emotive attacks stem from having to suffer a poser such as Rudd when we need someone with knowledge and talent.

Don't accuse others of ignorance of politics or markets, you are offensive and pollute forums such as this with your attempts to take the moral high ground and insult others.

You are a serial pest, go away.


----------



## nunthewiser (1 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> Emotive attacks stem from having to suffer a poser such as Rudd when we need someone with knowledge and talent.
> 
> Don't accuse others of ignorance of politics or markets, you are offensive and pollute forums such as this with your attempts to take the moral high ground and insult others.
> 
> You are a serial pest, go away.




LOL i would say that sounds a little bit hypocritical sport , but im not posting on forums at the moment so will just grin and think it instead


----------



## Calliope (1 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

Congratulations Julia on your forensic demolition of Rederob's arguments without a single * or abusive word. A voice of common sense and moderation on this thread is like an oasis in the desert.


----------



## Julia (1 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



> =rederob;356568The issue for mum and dads was whether or not they would make a run on the banks, and had nothing to do with everyone wanting to put their money into Irish banks: As if Ireland could guarantee deposits for its own, let alone others!



Rob, Ireland did guarantee all bank deposits.  Mr Rudd and Mr Swan have specifically stated that the guarantee being offered by other countries was one of the prime reasons for Australia having to do the same.



> Turnbull is a turncoat on bipartisanship.  He is either supportive of government actions in the matter, or not.  Instead, he say he is and then goes on to score points of difference, through regular "I told you sos" or "if they'd listened to me this wouldn't have happened".



This is quite true.   His offers of bipartisanship are insincere.  He does, however, have some good ideas which the government, however reluctantly, should consider.   viz my earlier point about capping the guarantee at $100K.



> Turnbull's blocking billions of revenue dollars through Senate rejection of
> various Bills, and he's been told that if he wants bipartisanship from government it can start by passing those Bills.



I disagree.   If the Libs do not agree with proposed legislation, they have no obligation to fall into line.



> On Rudd, what is apparent in this thread are emotive attacks supported by a poor understanding of politics and markets.
> But I guess in the present climate having a mortgage on ignorance probably means someone smarter will come along, repackage it, and flog it on to another sucker.



Even for you, Rob, that is a very patronising remark.  I think it contributes little to the discussion.


----------



## rederob (1 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

Julia
You choose to answer your own questions rather than the proper issues.
For example, how exactly could Ireland guarantee its immediate bank deposits, let alone those that would flow in?
It is true that other nations' guarantees affected Rudd's decision, and it is true because without such guarantees in place international trade would have quickly ground to a halt.  Rudd was aware that in ports around the globe some goods were not being loaded because the sellers had no assurance they would be paid.
Had Rudd capped bank guarantees at $100k how would a shipload of ore be affected?  Answer: It would not be shipped because the risk would be too great.  Turnbull saw only one side of the "retail" problem, and his response would have stuffed up our capacity to trade.  Thankfully the sensible option was taken.
On the matter of Senate Bills, the Opposition has clearly chosen its response, and Rudd's response to Turnbull is that if they want economic bipartisanship in the present climate, it begins in the Senate.  That's clear cut.
On your last point, I am curious that it was levelled towards me given the many poor quality and vulgar posts of MrBurns and several others.
It was also quite poor English on your part to suggest my remark was *patronising*.  It was quite the opposite, deliberately contemptuous of MrBurns and those that blissfully feed from his grotty trough.


----------



## MrBurns (1 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



rederob said:


> vulgar posts of MrBurns and several others.
> It was also quite poor English on your part to suggest my remark was *patronising*.  It was quite the opposite, deliberately contemptuous of MrBurns and those that blissfully feed from his grotty trough.




I don't attack but I will respond in self defense so keep your unprovoked, unwarranted and insulting remarks to yourself.


----------



## rhen (1 November 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Keep a watch in your own back yard...

*Game over for corporate fat cats: Rudd*
Prime Minister Kevin Rudd says he believes Australians are increasingly angry about corporate greed, as he defends his response to the global financial crisis.

The Federal Opposition is expected to use this week's sittings in Parliament to continue to demand details on the $10.4 billion rescue package and the Treasury modelling behind it.

Mr Rudd says he has acted quickly on the crisis and on Channel Seven he again foreshadowed tough measures against corporate greed.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/10/20/2395338.htm?section=australia
_Was that Channel Kevin, Seven-Four-Seven?_

*TAXPAYERS funded a $1 million cash bonus *to the chief executive of government-owned monopoly Australia Post this year.

Australia Post managing director Graeme John earned $2.9million in 2007-08 - the same year his organisation raised the cost of the average postage stamp by 10 per cent to 55c. 

News of the huge bonus follows scathing attacks by Kevin Rudd on massive bonuses paid to private sector executives. 

The pay bonus follows payment of a special dividend to the government of $150 million by Australian Post, in addition to the $300 million annual dividend payment. 

Mr Rudd yesterday refused to comment on Mr John's bonus. 

Communication Minister Stephen Conroy said Australia Post was a successful corporation and its profits were either reinvested or returned to the public via dividends paid to the commonwealth. 

Senator Conroy said pay levels were set by the Australia Post board and it would be inappropriate to comment on Mr John's package. The government, however, appoints the board. 

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,,24573890-643,00.html

Does Rudd inspire confidence?


----------



## gav (1 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

Check out the thread "Does Rudd inspire confidence?" and read post #103 by Rhen.  It suits the title of this thread particularly well!


----------



## gav (1 November 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Great post Rhen


----------



## MrBurns (1 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



gav said:


> Check out the thread "Does Rudd inspire confidence?" and read post #103 by Rhen.  It suits the title of this thread particularly well!




Yes very interesting, hypocrites. 
I don't think anyone is running this ship at all.


----------



## r34ztune (1 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

does anyone have the full details on Rudd's switching banks scheme?
http://optuszoo.news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=658912&_cobr=optus
apparently it doesn't include mortgage holders? 
and fees are still charged if you switch?
What is the point?
Add another flop to Rudd's schemes


----------



## MrBurns (1 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



r34ztune said:


> does anyone have the full details on Rudd's switching banks scheme?
> http://optuszoo.news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=658912&_cobr=optus
> apparently it doesn't include mortgage holders?
> and fees are still charged if you switch?
> ...




Here's some more, yep looks like he's done it again....

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/01/2407621.htm


----------



## r34ztune (1 November 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

hows that for inspiration?


----------



## prawn_86 (1 November 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

The real question should be:

"Does any politician inspire confidence?"

They are all full of crap, liars, cheats etc. You could find the same sort of things for any politician as they are just out to look after themselves


----------



## Julia (1 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



rederob said:


> On your last point, I am curious that it was levelled towards me given the many poor quality and vulgar posts of MrBurns and several others.
> It was also quite poor English on your part to suggest my remark was *patronising*.  It was quite the opposite, deliberately contemptuous of MrBurns and those that blissfully feed from his grotty trough.



No, it was not poor English on my part.  It was incorrect interpretation on yours.   I chose to ignore the scintillating repartee between some other participants and my post was purely directed towards you.   My suggestion that you were patronising reflected your attitude towards what I had ealier said.  But that's fine, Rob.  Whatever you say.   It's just too tedious to attempt a genuine exchange with you.


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (1 November 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



prawn_86 said:


> The real question should be:
> 
> "Does any politician inspire confidence?"
> 
> They are all full of crap, liars, cheats etc. You could find the same sort of things for any politician as they are just out to look after themselves




Though I do not disagree with your comments, there are some good politicians. It is up to the public to discover that without the help of the media. A tall ask for most.


----------



## Glen48 (2 November 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Research has led to discovery of the heaviest element yet known to
science. The new element, Governmentium (Gv), has one neuron, 25 assistant
neurons, 88 deputy neurons and 198 assistant deputy neurons, giving it an
atomic mass of 312.

These 312 particles are held together by forces called morons, which are
surrounded by vast quantities of lepton-like particles called peons. Since
Governmentium has no electrons, it is inert; however, it can be detected
because it impedes every reaction with which it comes into contact. A
minute amount of Governmentium can cause a reaction that normally takes
less than a second to take as long as 4 years to complete.

Governmentium has a normal half-life of 2-6 years; it does not decay, but
instead undergoes a reorganization in which a portion of the assistant
neurons and deputy neurons exchange places. In fact, Governmentium's mass
will actually increase over time, since each reorganization causes more
morons to become neurons, forming isodopes.

This characteristic of moron promotion leads some scientists to believe
that Governmentium is formed whenever morons reach a critical
concentration. This hypothetical quantity is referred to as critical
morass. When catalyzed with money, Governmentium becomes Administratium,
which has half as many peons but twice the number of morons.
_________________
Unlock your inborn creativity; look for better, faster and easier ways to sell your product or service.


----------



## rederob (2 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

Julia
I responded to most of your points.
You seem more content to wage some personal campaign.
Try substantiating what you present and you might get something more meaty back.
Regrettably there is an anti-Rudd consensus in this thread that has few clues about the real importance of "guarantees".  Rudd might have got a better outcome first up if he had a few more weeks to get everyone's input and have stronger legislation in place.  But Turnbull backed what Labor put to parliament, without amendment - so his later cries had a hindsight retrospective.
As for the claim of massive financial market dislocation, most have blocked out what was happening globally and how it was already impacting locally.  The guarantee prevented a run on the banks and ensured all trade deals would happen unhindered.
I have yet to hear a good argument from detractors of Rudd.
Even when mortgage funds froze withdrawals and Labor said to those who might be suffering to go to Centrelink, what was Turnbull's solution?
He had none, except to suggest it was a callous response.
Mortgage fund investors go into the market expecting better than bank interest returns because they are willing to wear the risk.  But as we just discovered, when things go sour they expect government to bail them out.
Market linked investments deserve no favours and investors who don't understand risk should do something else with their money, or not bother complaining when times get tough.


----------



## Whiskers (2 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



rederob said:


> *Mortgage fund investors go into the market expecting better than bank interest returns because they are willing to wear the risk.*  But as we just discovered, when things go sour they expect government to bail them out.
> Market linked investments deserve no favours and investors who don't understand risk should do something else with their money, or not bother complaining when times get tough.





Putting the degree of the Bank guarantee aside for the moment, isn't this the pertinent point.

Personally I've steered away from that sort of investment just because I don't like the idea of the fund having the perfectly legal right to freeze redemptions at their descretion.

The funds simply can't be expected to cash out a large proportion of those assets at once... hence the higher long term return, risk and descretion to freeze redemptions.

At the end of the day, if no Aus funds fail, those investors have still got what they set out to achieve.

I heard a press report that about 10 funds had already frozen redemptions before the Gov gave the Bank guarantee. Can someone confirm what the number was?

Wouldn't there still have been some sort of a run on funds even with the guarantee set at 100,000? ... and likely more funds were going to freeze redemptions anyway, until the crisis subdued?


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (2 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



> Regrettably there is an anti-Rudd consensus in this thread



Not to mention the anti Turnbull snipers too.


> As for the claim of massive financial market dislocation, most have blocked out what was happening globally and how it was already impacting locally.  The guarantee prevented a run on the banks and ensured all trade deals would happen unhindered.



Thus protecting the system so as it could continue functioning in a way that is not - now - free from Government intervention. (not just Australia)


> Mortgage fund investors go into the market expecting better than bank interest returns because they are willing to wear the risk.  But as we just discovered, when things go sour they expect government to bail them out.
> Market linked investments deserve no favours and investors who don't understand risk should do something else with their money, or not bother complaining when times get tough.



Yes, a lot like to party when it is going well. But who should they blame when is goes sour?


----------



## Glen48 (2 November 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Ch 7 today reports Rudd is telling us the economy will get "Ugly"??? 
Can any one  tell me if that means thing are going to get worser or gooder
than now?


----------



## Glen48 (2 November 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Had a cartoon in the Courier Mail with Rudd sitting at a table alone and Fund manager huddled at another table, the waiter comes over and tells Rudd this is from from the Managers and hands him a Chocolate coloured Ice cream..
Let em eat cake is now let em eat Ice Cream.


----------



## r34ztune (2 November 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

some more awkward weird moments...


----------



## pacestick (2 November 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Does he inspire confidence yes sure does beats the hell out of living in fear under johnie boy


----------



## Happy (2 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

What worries me, why banks are allowed to make profit after they are propped up with taxpayers money?

Shouldn’t Kev force banks that all profit is paid back to taxpayers?

Shouldn’t CEOs take pay cut and pay back last few years bonuses?


----------



## Julia (2 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Happy said:


> What worries me, why banks are allowed to make profit after they are propped up with taxpayers money?
> 
> Shouldn’t Kev force banks that all profit is paid back to taxpayers?
> 
> Shouldn’t CEOs take pay cut and pay back last few years bonuses?



The banks haven't been propped up with tax payers' money.
The guarantee is very unlikely to ever be required to be put into practice.


----------



## gav (2 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Julia said:


> The guarantee is very unlikely to ever be required to be put into practice.




I dont understand how this point is relevant?


----------



## Whiskers (3 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



gav said:


> I dont understand how this point is relevant?




As seen from recent Aus bank profit announcements, they were operating quite profitably and were quite liquid as per div announcements.

So in the normal course of events Aus banks were not in any sort of trouble... unless there was a hysterical run to withdraw deposits. The whole point of the guarantee was to restore confidence in the Banking system to prevent such a run. 

From the perspective of confidence in other Aus investment institutions, eg mortgage funds, I think Turnbull contributed to that lack of confidence by withdrawing some of his cash from such funds on advice that the fund was not performing well, and this helped fuel the public hysteria about guaranteeing those funds as well.

After all it's not a good look when the country's second most senior politican withdraws a lot of cash from a fund and tries to assure the public that all is fine. I think he painted himself into a corner in that respect... he could hardly argue that the funds were safe after withdrawing his cash, or to extend the guarantee to them, hence his somewhat illogical political stance and lot of noise about the size of the bank guarantee... which I think was more about saving (political and personal) face at the expense of further fueling uncertainty and hysteria in the community


----------



## nunthewiser (3 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Julia said:


> The banks haven't been propped up with tax payers' money.
> The guarantee is very unlikely to ever be required to be put into practice.




where did the 4 plus Billion come from that has been injected into the big 4 recently then ?

http://www.businessspectator.com.au...-cash-into-market-JX6SY?OpenDocument&src=srch

http://www.businessspectator.com.au...-to-cushion-banks-JY2JN?OpenDocument&src=srch

http://www.businessspectator.com.au...funds-into-market-JZ55H?OpenDocument&src=srch

i may have it all wrong and would appreciate some guidance if my take on the RBA is wrong


----------



## nunthewiser (3 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

Both the Reserve Bank of Australia (RBA) and the Future Fund (FF) have helped major banks with funding through the credit crisis. Without government assistance, banks would have been forced to raise interest rates higher than they already have, to compensate for the rising costs of funding. ABN Amro economists revealed in mid-July 2008 that the RBA has provided $A21 billion of additional funding to the banks through repurchase agreements. In April the Future Fund, designed to invest in the sharemarket, held $A35 billion in bank deposits, which is 4% of all bank deposits in Australia


http://www.businessspectator.com.au...ride-credit-storm-GJ2GZ?OpenDocument&src=srch


----------



## Whiskers (3 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



nunthewiser said:


> where did the 4 plus Billion come from that has been injected into the big 4 recently then ?
> 
> http://www.businessspectator.com.au...-cash-into-market-JX6SY?OpenDocument&src=srch
> 
> ...




Good to see yer still around Nun.

Probably a bit of a technicality or academic point, Nun... but the RBA just did what it often does, only a bit more heavily this time. This sort of thing happens quite often, but usually doesn't make headlines.

So I suppose technically the tax payer helped prop them up but it's not as though the RBA or Gov was giving them a hand out. This RBA liquidity funding is repaid to the RBA.


----------



## treefrog (3 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Whiskers said:


> As seen from recent Aus bank profit announcements, they were operating quite profitably and were quite liquid as per div announcements.
> 
> So in the normal course of events Aus banks were not in any sort of trouble... unless there was a hysterical run to withdraw deposits. The whole point of the guarantee was to restore confidence in the Banking system to prevent such a run.



not according to ABA, who cited overseas borrowings/investments as the main reason:- without ozzie govt guaranteeing deposits they were going elsewhere and Oz banks were very concerned their access to funds would continue to dry up - also the reason for the unlimited guarantee rather than a cap.


----------



## Julia (3 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



gav said:


> I dont understand how this point is relevant?



The guarantee we were talking about is that on deposits.   The government have not been required to pay any of the banks any tax payer dollars because the banks have been unable to honour deposits.  It was a move to shore up confidence at a time when there was considerable (unjustified) anxiety about how safe depositors' funds were in the banks.

And if by some extraordinary event the banks were unable to honour deposits then, yes, the government would have to honour their promise and come to the rescue.

This is a completely separate issue from the normal (and extra) funds which flow between the RBA and the banks.


----------



## MrBurns (3 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Julia said:


> The guarantee we were talking about is that on deposits.   The government have not been required to pay any of the banks any tax payer dollars because the banks have been unable to honour deposits.  It was a move to shore up confidence at a time when there was considerable (unjustified) anxiety about how safe depositors' funds were in the banks.
> 
> And if by some extraordinary event the banks were unable to honour deposits then, yes, the government would have to honour their promise and come to the rescue.
> 
> This is a completely separate issue from the normal (and extra) funds which flow between the RBA and the banks.




If everyone did want their money of course the banks would default because the simply havent got it.


----------



## rederob (3 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Julia said:


> No, it was not poor English on my part.  It was incorrect interpretation on yours.   I chose to ignore the scintillating repartee between some other participants and my post was purely directed towards you.   My suggestion that you were patronising reflected your attitude towards what I had ealier said.  But that's fine, Rob.  Whatever you say.   It's just too tedious to attempt a genuine exchange with you.



Julia
You declared some remarks I made as "patronising".  As you highlighted the specific remarks in question, I responded by saying they were made by me "contemptuously".
As these were my remarks, I know the sense in which they were made.
For you to suggest I misinterpreted my own remarks again shows your poor comprehension skills.
As for a genuine exchange, your attitude is totally disingenuous in this arena.
I have elaborated my points whereas you have simply regurgitated the odd fact along with party political lines that simply don't hold water.
If you don't have the guts to get involved in a proper debate on the issues, don't pretend it's all too hard and wrap it in a personal affront.


----------



## MrBurns (3 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



rederob said:


> Julia
> You declared some remarks I made as "patronising".  As you highlighted the specific remarks in question, I responded by saying they were made by me "contemptuously".
> As these were my remarks, I know the sense in which they were made.
> For you to suggest I misinterpreted my own remarks again shows your poor comprehension skills.
> ...




LOL You are an offensive piece of work arent you.


----------



## Whiskers (3 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> LOL You are an offensive piece of work arent you.




:topic

Lol... on another thread someone nominated me for the 'stirrer' award. I think you have out qualified me, MrBurns. :


----------



## MrBurns (3 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



Whiskers said:


> :topic
> 
> Lol... on another thread someone nominated me for the 'stirrer' award. I think you have out qualified me, MrBurns. :




I only stir when provoked and the verbal diarrhoea that is thrown at some people in here is at best a gutless effort by those who choose to hide behind a computer screen.


----------



## moXJO (3 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



rederob said:


> I have yet to hear a good argument from detractors of Rudd.
> Even when mortgage funds froze withdrawals and Labor said to those who might be suffering to go to Centrelink, what was Turnbull's solution?




Umm I thought he mentioned to Lower the cap to stop the flow. Unlimited cap just meant all the cash was heading into the banks.


----------



## rederob (3 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> LOL You are an offensive piece of work arent you.



I can do it without trying.
You - trying?


----------



## LM (3 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> I only stir when provoked and the verbal diarrhoea that is thrown at some people in here is at best a gutless effort by those who choose to hide behind a computer screen.




Irony?


----------



## nunthewiser (3 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



LM said:


> Irony?




 LOL im not too good with the engrish language but my thoughts were of the word " hypocrisy"


----------



## nunthewiser (3 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

thanks whiskers for your thoughts and reply


----------



## Joe Blow (3 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

Ladies and gentlemen, can we please stick to the topic at hand?

I am concerned that this thread is becoming increasingly personal when there is no need for it to go down that road. Can we please get it back on topic and stick to the issues.

I understand that political threads can get a bit heated at times but there is absolutely no need for personal attacks. 

Thank you for your co-operation.


----------



## MrBurns (3 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



nunthewiser said:


> LOL im not too good with the engrish language but my thoughts were of the word " hypocrisy"




One last word of clarification, if you care to look at my posts you will see that I only abuse the Govt who deserve it , I never target anyone in here *unless they target me first* with the possible exception of my response to rerob to his post aimed at Julia.


----------



## nunthewiser (3 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

OK , heres my 2 cents ......... how the heck can the current labour goverment be blamed for the current financial mess australia is in ? did they stuff it up in the short time they have been in power OR was they just passed a hot potatoe from the previous liberal goverments mismanagement?

is the rudd goverment just trying to deal with the cards its been dealt ?
what choice did they have re the bank deposit guarantees ? let the crowds withdraw there deposits and let them fall ?

i DO however disagree with the increase in the FHOG and think this was an irresponsible piece of pumping an overinflated ballon But in the same sense the building industry and ALL its arms ie materials etc etc will be kept floating along with the employment it creates  and if you look at the numbers it employs a lot of ppl from the humble site cleaner to the ppl that build them to the ppl that manufacture the materials INCLUDING our miners which dig up the raw materials , the timber industry , the list is endless .

I did not vote labour , i did not vote liberal, i have no preference actually as they both tend to leave a pile of poo that the next one in power gets blamed for . BUT i cannot believe that the current Gov can be blamed in the manner that it has here for the pile of poo it currently has to wade thru


vote nuns for goverment!


----------



## rederob (3 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> One last word of clarification, if you care to look at my posts you will see that I only abuse the Govt who deserve it , I never target anyone in here *unless they target me first* with the possible exception of my response to rerob to his post aimed at Julia.




You could try responding to rebuttals with something at least worthy of your thread's title.
Being pissed of with a decision of government  - or of Rudd in this thread - is par for the course.
Understanding the context of the decision or statement might prove enlightening.
I am more than happy to argue the toss where I think people who could know better, either don't know, don't want to know, or don't know they don't know!


----------



## MrBurns (3 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



rederob said:


> You could try responding to rebuttals with something at least worthy of your thread's title.
> Being pissed of with a decision of government  - or of Rudd in this thread - is par for the course.
> Understanding the context of the decision or statement might prove enlightening.
> I am more than happy to argue the toss where I think people who could know better, either don't know, don't want to know, or don't know they don't know!




I'm not interested in using this forum to your rules and specifications, nor is anyone else I dare say, control freaks not wanted.

If I dont like Rudd I'll say so and I think I usually say why, if thats not good enough bad luck.

If you abuse me for not answering to your satisfaction you will get a verbal smack in the mouth, fair enough ?

Now back on topic, Rudd is hopeless isn't he............?


----------



## nunthewiser (3 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

i see no one can adress my post , but prefer to beech and moan at each other instead .

my post wasnt that hard was it ?


----------



## MrBurns (3 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



nunthewiser said:


> i see no one can adress my post , but prefer to beech and moan at each other instead .
> 
> my post wasnt that hard was it ?




No the global financial crisis is not the fault of the Labor Govt but I dont like the way they've handled a few things, such as the increase in the first home buyers grant.

I also dont like the way Rudd seems to bask in the roll as world statesman, it's annoying, I also dont like the way he squeaks Chinese.

Probably a good warm up as we will probably have an Asian PM before long, look at the Lord Mayor of Melbourne.


----------



## nunthewiser (3 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> No the global financial crisis is not the fault of the Labor Govt but I dont like the way they've handled a few things, such as the increase in the first home buyers grant.
> 
> I also dont like the way Rudd seems to bask in the roll as world statesman, it's annoying, I also dont like the way he squeaks Chinese.
> 
> Probably a good warm up as we will probably have an Asian PM before long, look at the Lord Mayor of Melbourne.




LOL thankyou ....... yep the midwest of wa currently printing up 10 million chinese flags for the new owners of the outback


----------



## rederob (3 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



MrBurns said:


> If you abuse me for not answering to your satisfaction you will get a verbal smack in the mouth, fair enough ?



MrBurns
If I were at high school your puerile humour might have appeal.
Some of us have graduated.

I had wrongly thought you might be up to a challenge, but in your class of inconsequential forum bullies, I'll let you hide in the limelight of your own shadow.


----------



## BradK (3 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*

I have been vigorously attacked for celebrating lower interest rates, which benefit me as a mortgage holder. Just because I have a mortgage, I have been accused of all sorts of things - the right wing conservative Howard voting nutty  paternalistic pokies and plasma crew. 

I think Ruddy and the RBA is doing a fantastic job with interest rates. Another 1% to come before the end of 2008? 

Oh, I do hope so. Im hooked on the pokies... anyway, back to the plasma. 

Brad


----------



## MrBurns (3 November 2008)

*Re: Rudd, I'm pissed off aren't you?*



rederob said:


> MrBurns
> If I were at high school your puerile humour might have appeal.
> Some of us have graduated.
> 
> I had wrongly thought you might be up to a challenge, but in your class of inconsequential forum bullies, I'll let you hide in the limelight of your own shadow.




You are the bully rederob, cant you see that ?
The rest of your post is gibberish masquerading as clever comeback.


----------



## roland (3 November 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I have a few random thoughts about PM Rudd:

1. He tries hard - there is no doubt that Mr Rudd is trying to get his finger in every pie, I think he may be spreading himself a little thin by doing so, making him a little inefficient in his approach.

2. In Asia I feel he is perceived as being a little bit tyranical and possibly relying a little too heavily on his Chinese language skills to make him fit in (feel at home). His colloquial Mandarin is lacking and some joviality misses the mark which tend to lower his intended impact.

3. In the US, he is an emabarrasment.

4. On the world stage he has trouble filling Howards shoes, but I'll give him points for doing a fair job at being the new kid on the block. Any future and present Australian PM has the advantage of previous "good will" developed over the last 100 years by the amazing progress of Australia and Australians as a whole.

5. I really think that Mr Rudd should be focussing more on insulating Australia from global problems rather than trying to solve them. It will be a long time before we would ever be considered one of the world powers that he so intent of purveying.


----------



## Glen48 (7 November 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

MESSAGE TO THE AUSTRALIAN PUBLIC

The federal government is sending each and every one of us a $600 rebate. 

If we spend that money at K-Mart, the money will go to China. 

If we spend it on petrol it will go to the Arabs, if we purchase a computer it will go to Taiwan, 

If we purchase fruit and vegetables it will go to Mexico, Honduras, and Guatemala, 

If we purchase a good car it will go to Japan, 

If we purchase useless crap it will go to Korea and none of it will help the Australian economy. 

The only way to keep that money here at home is to spend it on prostitutes and beer, since these are the only products still produced in Australia. 


Thank you for your help. 

Kevin Rudd & Wayne Swan . 
( Australian Prime Minister & Australian Treasurer)


----------



## pacestick (7 November 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

yes he does  thats all i want say for now  but the stupid rule about length of posts  makes me keep gping


----------



## Julia (7 November 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

pacestick, that 100 character rule only applies to posts on stock threads, not General Chat.  Joe had to introduce it in an attempt to counteract massive ramping on stock threads.


----------



## Calliope (8 November 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

When Kevvy and Bazza get together they will find that they have several things in common, including;

Their love of cliches, and

Their facination wth the words "working families".


----------



## noirua (8 November 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Glen48 said:


> MESSAGE TO THE AUSTRALIAN PUBLIC
> 
> The federal government is sending each and every one of us a $600 rebate.
> 
> ...




The real message to every true Aussie.

The Federal Government wont need to send you a rebate as prices will fall.  If you're out of work, go abroad and send your money back to help Australia.

Spend less money on foreign imports and buy Aussie.  If we don't make it, go without.

Cut down on the amount of fuel you buy. Companies like Woodside export gas, lots of it. It is a matter of staying in better balance.

Try growing fruit and vegetables if you are able to. This will cut down on the need to buy so many. 80% of Aussie agriculture goes abroad.

Purchase second hand cars and keep hold of that old car a bit longer. Europe is down about 23% on car purchases. Put your country first and follow the trend.

Come on now all of you, don't buy that Korean crap.

If you look above, Australia has a thriving Gas export, Agricultural export, coal and iron ore etc., export industries. 

You help us to help you

Kevin Rudd PM & Wayne Swan AT, thank you all and looking forward to your support.


----------



## 2020hindsight (8 November 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> When Kevvy and Bazza get together they will find that they have several things in common, including;
> 
> Their love of cliches, and
> 
> Their facination wth the words "working families".



:topic 
Calliope - try listening to OBama's acceptance speech, (or read it if you wish), and see if you find the phrase "working familes" once.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/04/obama.transcript/index.html

Instead you might hear totally original phrases like this :-



> It's [tonight is] *the answer that led those who've been told for so long by so many to be cynical and fearful and doubtful about what we can achieve to put their hands on the arc of history and bend it once more toward the hope of a better day*




  obama acceptance speech hq

http://au.youtube.com/results?searc...arch_type=&aq=-1&oq=obama+acceptance+speech+h

"A great bit of oratory" - Adam Spencer on the ABC's week's summary of radio.
- still I'm sure you could do better Calliope - and that goes for any of Kevin Rudd's speeches as well


----------



## Glen48 (8 November 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Howard and Costello will have to go down in History as the worst two ever to run the country, they both let home loan go unregulated when commonsense tells you we can't keep expecting house prices to defy gravity.I suppose they thought the average OZ had enough sense to realise this and that greed is good it  made people feel they were wealthy and help the Libs win elections.
Now Howard is gone after a great victory and now on the Public purse for life, unless we run out of money but I assume the Fed's have a law saying they must be paid first before any one else.
Yes I do agree we would be still in trouble but not as much if they hadn't allowed 110% borrowing's over 50 years.


----------



## Calliope (8 November 2008)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



2020hindsight said:


> :topic
> Calliope - try listening to OBama's acceptance speech, (or read it if you wish), and see if you find the phrase "working familes" once.




At least twice in his press conference yesterday.


----------



## MrBurns (9 January 2009)

*Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*

If what been done to date isn't enough we're all stuffed.

Empty words once again. I think we have a drama queen in charge grandstanding at every opportunity and no doubt already planniing numerous overseas trips to more useless seminars and summits.

Rudd supporters dont bother wading in here, not interested.



> Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call
> 
> Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has warned of "grave" consequences without "unprecedented" policy cooperation between governments to lift the world out of the global financial crisis.
> 
> ...


----------



## noirua (9 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*

I'm all for protectionism.  The position is extremely grave and Aussies must choose Australia, not foreign, in the days, and months ahead.
Kevin Rudd just has to accept that what will be, will be. No point now, travelling around the world, his job is protecting Australia.


----------



## Happy (9 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*

I have my doubts if throwing money that we don’t have (since surplus gone already) to continue doing what we did to get what we got is bit unwise.

Almost everybody agrees that you cannot do the same to expect different results, but somebody has to tell that our elected Government and G20 as they seems to think otherwise.


----------



## Julia (9 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*

Noirua, I think in Mr Rudd's eyes, his job is primarily furthering his own CV abroad, and on the home front ensuring the polls continue to reflect his hand-out inspired popularity.

If I hear too many more times from recipients of the pre-Christmas gift, "thank you Mr Rudd", I will spit.   "Thank you, Australian tax payers" would be more appropriate.


----------



## MrBurns (9 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*



noirua said:


> I'm all for protectionism.  The position is extremely grave and Aussies must choose Australia, not foreign, in the days, and months ahead.
> Kevin Rudd just has to accept that what will be, will be. No point now, travelling around the world, his job is protecting Australia.




I'll tell you this and I'm sure most would agree, if the supermarkets had Australian made sectioned off I would shop there first but they dont it's all mixed in together and no one can be bothered reading all the labels, the same will happen with GM food, we wont know and thats the way they like it.


----------



## MrBurns (9 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*

All this stimulus stuff will come back to hit us in the back of the head one day, when it has to be repaid, this is dangerous stuff and Rudd and others are just throwing money away like confetti and has it worked NO, judging by the above article it hasn't changed anything except prop up a few banks.

So what do they do ? double up.

Our standard of living and into the next generation will pay for this.


----------



## noirua (9 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*



MrBurns said:


> I'll tell you this and I'm sure most would agree, if the supermarkets had Australian made sectioned off I would shop there first but they dont it's all mixed in together and no one can be bothered reading all the labels, the same will happen with GM food, we wont know and thats the way they like it.



In the UK a big price war, by supermarkets, has just started. Food and goods marked down by as much as 60%. Many stores are going out of business at an amazingly fast rate. Tesco, Asda, Sainsburys, Morrisons, and others seem to see a massive problem here.
Survival of the fittest I suppose.


----------



## noirua (9 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*



Julia said:


> Noirua, I think in Mr Rudd's eyes, his job is primarily furthering his own CV abroad, and on the home front ensuring the polls continue to reflect his hand-out inspired popularity.
> 
> If I hear too many more times from recipients of the pre-Christmas gift, "thank you Mr Rudd", I will spit.   "Thank you, Australian tax payers" would be more appropriate.



 Mr Rudd does really know how bad it is likely to get. He needs money coming in from Japan, South Korea and China.  No hope now of any help from anywhere else. 
He'll be back when his job is done. These are indeed desperate times.
Good Luck Julia


----------



## Calliope (9 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*

I think that any stimulus packages that encourage people to continue bad spending habits are bad policy.



Julia said:


> Noirua, I think in Mr Rudd's eyes, his job is primarily furthering his own CV abroad, and on the home front ensuring the polls continue to reflect his hand-out inspired popularity.
> 
> If I hear too many more times from recipients of the pre-Christmas gift, "thank you Mr Rudd", I will spit.   "Thank you, Australian tax payers" would be more appropriate.




I agree, it is nauseating. In regard to the CV abroad, I think it explains why Rudd is not worried about Gillard looking good in his job while he is away. He can go no further in Australia and the world stage beckons. 

I think he sees himself as the future Secretary General of the Asian Union, (his brainchild) and stationed in Peking.


----------



## MrBurns (9 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*



Calliope said:


> I think he sees himself as the future Secretary General of the Asian Union, (his brainchild) and stationed in Peking.




I think you may have nailed it.


----------



## Aussiejeff (9 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*



MrBurns said:


> All this stimulus stuff will come back to hit us in the back of the head one day, when it has to be repaid, this is dangerous stuff and Rudd and others are just throwing money away like confetti and has it worked NO, judging by the above article it hasn't changed anything except prop up a few banks.
> 
> *So what do they do ? double up.*
> 
> Our standard of living and into the next generation will pay for this.




It's the Ultimate World Poker Tourny.

"I'll see your rates and cut mine another 100BP!"

"I'll see your $500Billion Bailout & raise mine another $Trillion" 

The World's Leading Players are becoming punch-drunk from a heady mix of believing they have un-limited funds to gamble with and a vastly increased sense of self-importance.

I can see why they have fallen under the spell. 

But in the end, they are using maximum effort to effectively maintain the previous status quo free capitalist system whereby a miniscule number of filthy rich Ponzi's manipulated markets for their own personal mega-benefit whilst lording it over the hordes of relatively pauper hoipoloi.

Will Obama taking the reins shortly REALLY make a significant difference? I, too, feel that too many heavily vested interests are involved in the US for effective and fair change to really work. Ideas and plans always sound great from the sideline, but once you are told to get out on the field and lead your team to victory, all manner of power plays and personality differences suddenly start to come into effect.

I wish him luck.

KRudd? He is most certainly trying to make a name for himself as a "doer" in the international arena. I suspect he would have done this regardless of the state of the World Economy. He has basically set us on the path of "the American Way" with regard to Bailouts et all. 

Whether that policy works for us in the long run (I think it is wrong for the same reasons as you, Mr Burns - we are going to get hocked to the eyeballs - then what if the handouts DON'T WORK?), we are about to find out! 


aj


----------



## MrBurns (9 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*



Aussiejeff said:


> Whether that policy works for us in the long run (I think it is wrong for the same reasons as you, Mr Burns - we are going to get hocked to the eyeballs - then what if the handouts DON'T WORK?), we are about to find out!
> aj




All countries are fast running out of interest rate room to juggle and all they can do then is to throw more money at it.

This can't go on forever, it's not working and when it hits the fan perhaps the real doomsayers will have it right after all.


----------



## Aussiejeff (9 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*



MrBurns said:


> All countries are fast running out of interest rate room to juggle and all they can do then is to throw more money at it.
> 
> This can't go on forever, it's not working and when it hits the fan perhaps the real doomsayers will have it right after all.




This will speed up the money flooding down the Gummints plughole... some here have said it doesn't matter if super funds have tanked. Well, this is what happens when self-funded retirees who have tried to do the right thing and not be a drain on society _through no choice of their own_ HAVE to lodge for the age pension in the current financial meltdown because the return from their life's super savings has been savaged.



> *More people join aged pension queue*
> January 9, 2009 - 1:20PM
> 
> A surge in the number of people obtaining the aged pension puts extra pressure on the federal government to overhaul the scheme, the opposition says.
> ...



http://news.theage.com.au/national/more-people-join-aged-pension-queue-20090109-7dci.html

This situation will only worsen for each passing week. 



aj


----------



## Glen48 (9 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*

BoE has the lowest rates since its inception315 yrs ago what does that tell you?
Where will OB get his money from for the Bail out?
What if China gets deeper into a recession and want their money back from USA?
Things are so bad and so much cost cutting they have switch off the light at the end of the tunnel.


----------



## Aussiejeff (9 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*



Glen48 said:


> BoE has the lowest rates since its inception315 yrs




Next player in line at the World Poker Tourney, Bank of Korea says "I'll see your rate".

Next bid, gentlemens?




Mebbe we should send Warnie along. He plays a tricky game I am told...


----------



## Happy (9 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*

Somehow I suspect that Supernova name for stimulus (after Quantum name wears out) has better chance than Black Hole stimulus, which in my opinion better reflects current G20 or is it G220 efforts (not sure if we have that many countries registered and if every country participates).

Zimbabwe seems to have a head start; last money they printed was 200,000,000 or something of this magnitude - give or take few zeroes.


----------



## Julia (10 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*



Calliope said:


> I think that any stimulus packages that encourage people to continue bad spending habits are bad policy.



Completely agree.  What sort of philosophy does Rudd's pre-Xmas "Spend, spend, spend" urging inculcate in the minds of the already profligate population!






> I think he sees himself as the future Secretary General of the Asian Union, (his brainchild) and stationed in Peking.




Yep, and in the meantime, he's determined to spend more millions of our tax dollars on acquiring that seat at the U.N.  He has probably already written his own version of the history books.


----------



## Aussiejeff (10 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*

Remember that big spendup on First Home Buyers?

What happened to stimulation of housing approvals since?

Nada.

Failed.

Next spend stimulus please, KRudd & Co....


----------



## MrBurns (10 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*

Geez just reading the news today, Obama has hit the panic button , US jobless rate at 16 year high with 700,000 job losses last month alone, and another headline "British recession worsens as manufacturing sector slumps"

I cant feel it here yet, rates are down, Rudd had thrown some money at people to spend, petrol is down but we must be due for some real pain very soon, this is like the calm before the storm, dunno how bad it's going to be but probably pretty bad.

I dont think Rudd can do anything about it , I'm just concerned he's going to trash the economy further by throwing good money after bad, and believe me he WILL do that and it will take decades to get out of the mess that will follow.


----------



## Aussiejeff (10 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*



MrBurns said:


> Geez just reading the news today, Obama has hit the panic button , US jobless rate at 16 year high with 700,000 job losses last month alone, and another headline "British recession worsens as manufacturing sector slumps"
> 
> [size=+1]*I cant feel it here yet*[/size], rates are down, Rudd had thrown some money at people to spend, petrol is down but we must be due for some real pain very soon, this is like the calm before the storm, dunno how bad it's going to be but probably pretty bad.
> 
> I dont think Rudd can do anything about it , I'm just concerned he's going to trash the economy further by throwing good money after bad, and believe me he WILL do that and it will take decades to get out of the mess that will follow.




That's because we are blissfully living in "The Dreamtime".

We are Survivors and have the Hidden Immunity Idol.

Such a nice dream. Hopefully we don't have to wake up to boring reality.


----------



## Trevor_S (10 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*



noirua said:


> I'm all for protectionism.




I'm not...100% against in infact... and I hope the rest of the World doesn't ascribe to that insular point of view.  Imagine if the World didn't buy our farming goods, our mineral ores, the country would collapse.  AFAIK, we are the only country in the World to run a trade surplus with Japan for example ie they buy more of our crap then we by of their crap



noirua said:


> The position is extremely grave and Aussies must choose Australia, not foreign,




I am all for picking Australian .. in a level playing field ie compete on quality, service and price not some esoteric concept of patriotism.  I don't want to be taxed out the ying yang to protect industries that can't compete on the global stage and then be left with inferior products to boot.  



noirua said:


> his job is protecting Australia.




That seems a little naive, he's a politician, his "job" is to get re-elected.  



MrBurns said:


> if the supermarkets had Australian made sectioned off I would shop there first but they dont it's all mixed in together and no one can be bothered reading all the labels




Consumer apathy is no excuse, and I don't agree with your sentiment that it would change consumer behaviour... Lots of people shopping at places like Aldi (German owned) as well. Why ?  Look at Cars for example, no label reading necessary there, lots of people don't buy Aussie made or even Aussie assembled cars.

We should be out there leading the World in alternate energy, massive hot rock geothermal plant, massive nation wide solar stations, with associated backup for 24/7 power generation, alongside a massive intra state DC backbone linking them up to feed the grid where necessary.  Instead of spending $10Billion on handing out "beer and ciggie" money to welfare recipients, hows about investing it in that sort of infrastructure and the technology and training that will allow us to move forward 100 years into the future...

Look at that proposal from Shane Condon, a proposed a rail line from the Kimberly to North QLD, so we can freight coal to the WA (or Iron Ore to Qld) and smelt the iron ore at one end or the other, rather then send both commodities over seas, why not spend the money on those sorts of things instead of being fiscally irresponsible with it.  I guess that won't win aa many votes...sigh


----------



## Aussiejeff (13 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*

Apparently, KRudd & Co. are looking at chucking another "Quantum of Stimulus" package at the OzEcon soon.....

Any fantasy bets on the size of the Gummint's deficit by 1 Jul 2009?

I'll go for -$AUS30Billion.


----------



## shaunQ (13 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*



Calliope said:


> I think he sees himself as the future Secretary General of the Asian Union, (his brainchild) and stationed in Peking.




Yeah, its what every child dreams of as they grow up. Prime minister of Australia is one thing - but Secretary General of some non-existent organisation is the way to go. And with a young family I'm sure he would be aching to move to Peking.


----------



## MrBurns (13 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*



shaunQ said:


> Yeah, its what every child dreams of as they grow up. Prime minister of Australia is one thing - but Secretary General of some non-existent organisation is the way to go. And with a young family I'm sure he would be aching to move to Peking.




He would love it, non stop talkfests, theorising about everything he knows nothing about, seminars, enquiries, summits and all at the expense of his good pal the Australian tax payer.
The never ending pit of money that he so generously splashes around.


----------



## badger41 (13 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*

A lot of reports about Self-Funded Retirees applying for the Age Pension. True or not? In our case certainly true!

We never thought we would need to apply, we had an allocated pension, we owned our house, and had a substantial share portfolio of "blue chip"shares, and no debt (luckily avoided finacial advisers). While we just might have scraped in to a $1/week pension back in March, after the first sub-prime drop, didn't really think about it too much. But did, thank heavens, cash out our allocated pension (no more fees, no more losses on the investments, no more dreaded 15% tax on capital if we die).

But then came October and November, and $200K disappeared in a matter of 2 months. Painful.

So, I swallowed my pride and visited Centrelink (extemely courteous and helpful), and at least we are now getting a small Age Pension to offset some of the pain of the GFC.

Don't know what the upcoming pension review will bring, wouldn't be surprised if we lose ours (tightening of assets test?), but I would like to see the NZ system introduced: Everyone gets an age pension on qualifying - no asset or income test. But fully taxable at your marginal rate. We could probably shut down half of Centrelink as a result, but then, that would add to unemployment, wouldn't it?

Cheers, Badger


----------



## Happy (13 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*



badger41 said:


> A lot of reports about Self-Funded Retirees applying for the Age Pension. True or not? In our case certainly true!
> 
> Cheers, Badger




There were alarming voices about reduction of tax paying folks to benefit recipients.

My question is where is money going to come from should 10%, 20% or 50% tax paying positions disappear?

Hope it doesn't cut that deep.


----------



## numbercruncher (13 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*

Yes Oztraaaalia slides further into the abyss - 50pc surge in pension applications as " investors ? " investments get vaporised ....

Along with jobs vanishing the evidence mounts - the asset tested threshold to claim the Goverment pension is actually very genourous, might need tweeking as the Gov realises it cant meet its commitments.

Funny old world it is addicted too .. but unable to get, yesterdays income, yet still obliged to pay yesterdays bills and more .....


----------



## Julia (13 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*



numbercruncher said:


> Yes Oztraaaalia slides further into the abyss - 50pc surge in pension applications as " investors ? " investments get vaporised ....
> 
> Along with jobs vanishing the evidence mounts - the asset tested threshold to claim the Goverment pension is actually very genourous, might need tweeking as the Gov realises it cant meet its commitments.
> 
> Funny old world it is addicted too .. but unable to get, yesterdays income, yet still obliged to pay yesterdays bills and more .....



It's going to be interesting to see how the government reconciles this increase in numbers receiving the age  pension  with their avowed intention to increase the fortnightly amount of  the  pension in the Budget.


----------



## Glen48 (13 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*

Give the Man a go his Wife runs a big business (well use to be until now) and they have a family to raise. Her business is finding jobs for the un-employed which took a lot of skill a few years ago now things are not so bright.


----------



## ShareGuy (14 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*



> Give the Man a go his Wife runs a big business (well use to be until now) and they have a family to raise. Her business is finding jobs for the un-employed which took a lot of skill a few years ago now things are not so bright.




You can't be serious, if he doesn't have enough time due to "raising a family" then give the job to someone who does. Not like he trys to limit the overseas trips! 

As for the business I still laugh at how workchoices were such a bad thing yet her company was utilizing it just nicely.

No sympathy here...... anyone else got some?


----------



## noirua (14 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*

KR knows exactly what's happening, and the extent of the problems. Probably looking to China, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, to see if there is a way of cushioning the problems.
A tie up is needed to try and solve the export of iron ore and coal difficulties for Australia. Sudden cancellations and difficulties in paying are causing massive losses of jobs and likely failures in associated sectors.
KR is not swanning around Asia and Far East just for fun.


----------



## numbercruncher (14 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*

He should be sniffing around the US, they are the ones about to spend huge on infrastructure projects and new technology like electric cars etc ..... the US lead us(the world) to boom then to bust they are the only ones that can lead to boom again .....


----------



## rhen (14 January 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Rudd's broadband network plan in chaos
Matt O'Sullivan | December 15, 2008 - 3:42PM

Just thought this debacle should be recorded herein this thread:

_The Rudd Government's plans to begin rolling out a $10 billion-plus national broadband network next year have been thrown into tatters after Telstra was dumped from the tender process.

- Telstra exits broadband process
- Share price falls to two-year low
- Exclusion based on 'trivial reason'

_

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/new...roadband-tender/2008/12/15/1229189487532.html

and a word frpm "the other side" of the political chamber:
_Thu, 7th August 2008

Rudd goes silent on broadband to avoid bad headlines

The Hon Bruce Billson MP
Shadow Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy (to 22 September 2008)

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd never talks about Labor’s grand National Broadband Network promises anymore because he knows if he does he will only attract bad publicity about failing to deliver.

While much of the central political debate has focussed on other issues, such as the government’s failure to ease cost of living pressures, more and more Australians are now questioning why there has been so little progress by the Rudd Government with broadband, despite its overblown promises in opposition.

In the lead up to the Federal election, hardly a day passed without Mr Rudd promising how under Labor ‘s plan to spend up to $4.7 billion of taxpayers’ money broadband in Australia would reach mythical levels, with the first new services up and running before the end of 2008.

But since the election Mr Rudd doesn’t want to talk about broadband, Labor’s single biggest infrastructure promise. To do so would simply draw attention to a shambolic and secretive tender process littered with several broken deadline promises and estimates of staggering cost blow-outs.

And more than eight months after the election Communications Minister Stephen Conroy can’t even explain what taxpayers will actually get for their $4.7 billion. That’s billion, not million.

After formally calling for network construction proposals back in April, Senator Conroy has not even been able provide potential bidders with the basic information they need to develop and cost their proposals, despite several failed attempts.

I am receiving reports from around the country of communities asking why they are yet to see any sign of imminent broadband benefits under the Rudd Government. Many of these communities would have been beneficiaries of the previous government’s OPEL broadband project, which Senator Conroy cancelled despite having no alternative to it.

At a time when Australians are seeking clarity and explanations as to why Labor’s broadband plan is in tatters, Senator Conroy has conveniently gone to ground and Mr Rudd doesn’t want his name associated with another major embarrassment.

While Senator Conroy dithers, the private sector has understandably frozen further broadband investment in commercially viable areas of the market depriving consumers of new services today.

Senator Conroy has a habit of blaming others for his broadband woes, whether it be the opposition, his own department or telcos, but Telstra’s Dr Phil Burgess hit the nail on the head when this week when he said:

“They [The Government] are sitting on their hands.”

Dr Burgess predicted the process was likely to drag on until September next year because of lengthy negotiations, legislation changes, Senate approval and a Christmas period lag. (The Herald Sun 6/8/08).

The big problem for Labor is it based its broadband promise on an election sound bite, with no sound public policy to back it up. For Senator Conroy, shifting deadlines and dodging scrutiny will not fix a fundamentally flawed process.

_

http://www.liberal.org.au/news.php?Id=1375


And for those who suffer the slower, more expensive, speeds of broadband1, and wish to get better, stiff cheese!...or leave the country for the capitals.


----------



## Calliope (14 January 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



rhen said:


> And for those who suffer the slower, more expensive, speeds of broadband1, and wish to get better, stiff cheese!...or leave the country for the capitals.




I am not sure what you are advocating. You must be aware that it is impossible to provide goods and services in the country at the same cost and efficiency as in the more densely populated areas. Internet services are no different...unless very heavily subsidised by the taxpayer.


----------



## rhen (14 January 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> I am not sure what you are advocating. You must be aware that it is impossible to provide goods and services in the country at the same cost and efficiency as in the more densely populated areas. Internet services are no different...unless very heavily subsidised by the taxpayer.




http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/08/28/2349508.htm
_Rudd dodges 'broken promise' of broadband network
Posted Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:49pm AEST 

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd denies he has broken an election promise on timing of a new national broadband network. 

*Labor pledged at last year's election to have a tender for the new network finalised within six months.*

At the time, the Coalition was sceptical of the timeframe and today it pointed out that the Government has failed to meet that commitment. 

But Mr Rudd says he is confident with the progress that has been made. 

"We have embarked on such a significant *national* program here, involving potentially billions of dollars of public funds," he said. 

"We will therefore go through the most rigorous, comprehensive, public tender process to ensure that probity is honoured so we can get on with the business of rolling out this network."

_

Pledged...National...6 months...confident (when?)

That's plain?


----------



## MrBurns (16 January 2009)

*Rudd announces first trip of the year*

Here we go again - 



> Prime Minister Kevin Rudd will kick off the 2009 political year with a six-day overseas trip that takes in Papua New Guinea, India and Switzerland.
> 
> After a hectic schedule of overseas trips last year, Kevin Rudd's second year in office promises to be equally busy.
> 
> ...


----------



## numbercruncher (16 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd announces first trip of the year*

Yes over his globe trotting - once we become a Banana republic I think he will get less invites to events he "must" attend


----------



## CoffeeKing (16 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd announces first trip of the year*

Why doesn't he just get normal tickets like the rest of us have too
Plus take is own laptop and do his own work for a change...


----------



## Sean K (16 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd announces first trip of the year*

I'd be very disappointed if our PM wasn't visiting countries important to Australia's interests. Maybe I'm overestimating the value of some face to face meetings with leaders around the world is. Think of Australia as a business doing business with other countries. Think it wise the CEO shake some hands now and then to try and get the best deal? And he should travel in a mode of transport suitable for the national leader. Would you like to see your representative overseas turn up on a Jetstar flight?


----------



## MrBurns (16 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd announces first trip of the year*



kennas said:


> I'd be very disappointed if our PM wasn't visiting countries important to Australia's interests. Maybe I'm overestimating the value of some face to face meetings with leaders around the world is. Think of Australia as a business doing business with other countries. Think it wise the CEO shake some hands now and then to try and get the best deal? And he should travel in a mode of transport suitable for the national leader. Would you like to see your representative overseas turn up on a Jetstar flight?




I must agree it's a petty complaint, just couldn't help myself, even the headline at the ABC web site,all Labour voters I presume, says "Globetrotter"


----------



## shaunQ (16 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd announces first trip of the year*



MrBurns said:


> I must agree it's a petty complaint, just couldn't help myself, even the headline at the ABC web site,all Labour voters I presume, says "Globetrotter"




Firstly... Its Labor.

Secondly... We had the same Prime Minister for a decade - now we have a new one, he has been invited as our HEAD OF STATE to meet with other leaders.

Its funny. Its like an employee looking at his boss saying all he does is go in and out of meetings the lazy bugger - as the employee leaves peacefully at 5 and the "lazy" boss continues to smoke away under stress till 2AM.

He works dam hard and doesn't sit around posting to message boards - he actually does things!!

But what do you DO Burns?


----------



## MrBurns (16 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd announces first trip of the year*



shaunQ said:


> Firstly... Its Labor.
> 
> Secondly... We had the same Prime Minister for a decade - now we have a new one, he has been invited as our HEAD OF STATE to meet with other leaders.
> 
> ...




Firstly is Labour, when you have to endure some hardship, like watching a ponce boarding a plane at every opportunity to engraciate himself for his future career OS after the AU public dump him.

Secondly it's good to see you dont just sit around posting in forums

I'm off to a meeting so I wont be responding to any more infantile rantings:


----------



## MrBurns (16 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd announces first trip of the year*

dupe post


----------



## cashcow (17 January 2009)

*Re: Rudd in 'quantum of stimulus' calculation call*



noirua said:


> KR knows exactly what's happening, and the extent of the problems. Probably looking to China, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, to see if there is a way of cushioning the problems.
> A tie up is needed to try and solve the export of iron ore and coal difficulties for Australia. Sudden cancellations and difficulties in paying are causing massive losses of jobs and likely failures in associated sectors.
> KR is not swanning around Asia and Far East just for fun.




Just my thoughts, and I'm happy to be corrected if mistaken, but ...

How sympathetic will foreign buyers (China, et al) of Australian commodities be to our economic cause, after years of unsustainable price-hiking on our part?  Negotiating a way forward that appeases both sides will be tricky indeed, methinks.


----------



## tech/a (21 January 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Cant wait for the next elections.

*RUDD'S A DUD *should do well for the Libs.

Kinda catchy


----------



## Aussiejeff (21 January 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



rhen said:


> http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/08/28/2349508.htm
> _Rudd dodges 'broken promise' of broadband network
> Posted Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:49pm AEST
> 
> ...




"Involving *potentially billions of dollars of public funds*," he said?

Yeah? Got a firm figure on that? Or is it all a bit "rubbery" for now?


----------



## numbercruncher (24 January 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I see Rudd the International tourist has been forced to cancel his latest overseas tour in favor of working on our local economic crisis - yes good luck with that Ruddy ....


----------



## Happy (24 January 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



numbercruncher said:


> I see Rudd the International tourist has been forced to cancel his latest overseas tour *in favor of working on our local economic crisis *- yes good luck with that Ruddy ....





Possibly, but after reading this -




> From ABC, 23 Jan. 09
> 
> RUDD TRIP CANCELLATION PROMPTS STIMULUS SPECULATION
> 
> ...





Another, more sinister possibility arises.

Either way we all saved, KRudd his face and we some money.

But who knows maybe we would be better off if he went, instead of working on *The second stimulus package* which can cost us billions instead of harmless sub million dollars trip.


----------



## Calliope (25 January 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Happy said:


> Possibly, but after reading this -
> 
> Another, more sinister possibility arises.
> 
> ...




You may depend that any decisions Mr Rudd makes will be on the basis of what is best for Mr Rudd. I think that after observing the Obama circus in the past week he will have reached the conclusion that he doesn't have the right stuff to make it on the world stage. 

He knows that he has reached his pinnacle and to stay there he has to do more work in the party room. Remember Ms Gillard "has a lean and hungry look." She is also a left wing favorite.


----------



## knocker (25 January 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I think KRudd should have gone on his circus trip. They love have a laugh at him and his merry band over there. Probably good for international relations along.


----------



## Aussiejeff (25 January 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> You may depend that any decisions Mr Rudd makes will be on the basis of what is best for Mr Rudd. I think that after observing the Obama circus in the past week he will have reached the conclusion that he doesn't have the right stuff to make it on the world stage.
> 
> He knows that he has reached his pinnacle and to stay there he has to do more work in the party room. *Remember Ms Gillard "has a lean and hungry look."* She is also a left wing favorite.




Compared to TouroKRudd, Mz Gillhard is looking better every day.


----------



## GumbyLearner (25 January 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Aussiejeff said:


> Compared to TouroKRudd, Mz Gillhard is looking better every day.




Thats funny! ROFLMAO 

Youve made my day AJ!


----------



## Julia (25 January 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> You may depend that any decisions Mr Rudd makes will be on the basis of what is best for Mr Rudd.



Absolutely.



> I think that after observing the Obama circus in the past week he will have reached the conclusion that he doesn't have the right stuff to make it on the world stage.



I'm not sure he'll be prepared to see that just yet.



> He knows that he has reached his pinnacle and to stay there he has to do more work in the party room. Remember Ms Gillard "has a lean and hungry look." She is also a left wing favorite.



She comes across as less egocentric and more objective too.  I much prefer her to Rudd.


----------



## knocker (25 January 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure he'll be prepared to see that just yet.
> ...




They are all toads. lol


----------



## pacestick (25 January 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

yes he does inspire confidence that is why  he soes so well in the polls, Question answered  no further requirement for this thread


----------



## MrBurns (25 January 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



pacestick said:


> yes he does inspire confidence that is why  he soes so well in the polls, Question answered  no further requirement for this thread




No he doesnt and disturbingly he is making decisions that could do a lot of harm, ie: propping up developers with our money, dangerous, very dangerous and not what he was elected to do.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (25 January 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



pacestick said:


> yes he does inspire confidence that is why  he soes so well in the polls, Question answered  no further requirement for this thread




Not necessarily.

The voting public here and the US were tired of right wing government.

Then they got Rudd.

Now that Obama is in, it is a "jumping the shark" moment.

People are saying what have we let ourselves in for here.

Rudd does not inspire much confidence in me. I wouldn't trust him to do anything that wasn't in his own interest. 

Many folk who voted for Labor last time will have second thoughts coming up to our next election in 2010 if ole Kev doesn't call one this year.

gg


----------



## Julia (25 January 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



pacestick said:


> yes he does inspire confidence that is why  he soes so well in the polls,




He is a complete populist, viz the pre-Christmas handouts to the sector which would be most susceptible to being grateful to him.
I am utterly sick of seeing letters to the paper etc saying "thank you Mr Rudd".
How about 'thank you, Australian taxpayers".  That would be a lot more accurate.

Mr Rudd's actions are prompted by bolstering his own CV.  Hence his prancing about on the world stage, promoting his idea for some South East Asian Association , etc.   Re this latter, the countries concerned made clear how underwhelmed they were by his remarkable vision.


----------



## MrBurns (25 January 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> He is a complete populist, viz the pre-Christmas handouts to the sector which would be most susceptible to being grateful to him.
> I am utterly sick of seeing letters to the paper etc saying "thank you Mr Rudd".
> How about 'thank you, Australian taxpayers".  That would be a lot more accurate.
> 
> Mr Rudd's actions are prompted by bolstering his own CV.  Hence his prancing about on the world stage, promoting his idea for some South East Asian Association , etc.   Re this latter, the countries concerned made clear how underwhelmed they were by his remarkable vision.




Agree but what really cocerns me now is that he's delving into areas he knows nothing about such as supporting developers.
It's bad enough to be incompetant but to be actively destructive and going outside you mandate is another thing.


----------



## Happy (27 January 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> Agree but what really cocerns me now is that he's delving into areas he knows nothing about such as supporting developers.
> It's bad enough to be incompetant but to be actively destructive and going outside you mandate is another thing.





Only positive that might come out later is that failed shopping centre or even office tower can be converted to high density accommodation for underprivileged groups including homeless.

Only problem with this is currently Government desperately tries to disperse underprivileged groups so trouble is dispersed with them making it less visible and helps the statistics too.

This will make all suburbs similar in crime rate and effectively making all suburbs equally desirable.


----------



## The Mint Man (27 January 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

In reply to the original question, 
No!


----------



## Judd (27 January 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

No.  Always feel that I am being preached to by him and he does it with motherhood statements, such as this one from yesterday. 

"Compassion, when we extend an outstretched hand to those who fall by the road, who stumble or who are injured, and help to see them through, as seeing them through is seeing all of us through."

If I feel the need or wish to see a confessor, I'll go to a church I don't need such in a Prime Minister who is elected to lead: not to take on the work of Archbishop Pell.


----------



## Julia (27 January 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Judd said:


> No.  Always feel that I am being preached to by him and he does it with motherhood statements, such as this one from yesterday.
> 
> "Compassion, when we extend an outstretched hand to those who fall by the road, who stumble or who are injured, and help to see them through, as seeing them through is seeing all of us through."
> 
> If I feel the need or wish to see a confessor, I'll go to a church I don't need such in a Prime Minister who is elected to lead: not to take on the work of Archbishop Pell.



This irritates me too.  As does his general tone which is "I know more than you dumb voters ever will and you are just so lucky to have me here in charge of your lives."

I did, however, give him some brownie points yesterday for his very clear rejection of Mick Dodson's demand for the date of Australia Day to be changed.  He seems to have succeeded in putting that person, big black hat and all, back in his box, at least for now.


----------



## Calliope (28 January 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Finally President Obama has rung Mr Rudd to get the good oil on how to save the world economy. They talked for 25 minutes. 

We don't know the outcomes, but apparently Obama has his decoders busy at work trying to decipher what the hell Mr Rudd was talking about.


----------



## The Mint Man (28 January 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Finally President Obama has rung Mr Rudd to get the good oil on how to save the world economy. They talked for 25 minutes.
> 
> We don't know the outcomes, but apparently Obama has his decoders busy at work trying to decipher what the hell Mr Rudd was talking about.




Hahaha


----------



## Happy (28 January 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Finally President Obama has rung Mr Rudd to get the good oil on how to save the world economy. They talked for 25 minutes.
> 
> ...





I suspect one of the points was reminder that we were part of -Coalition of the willing- and coming with it obligation to help with BHO election promisees to close that camp, or some other topics excluding this one.


----------



## MrBurns (11 February 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Govt under fire for 'appalling' stimulus fire link - 

I dont like Keven Rudd and this just cements my feelings, the man is a shifty, grubby little opportunist and I hope the Australian people now see him for what he is - 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/02/11/2488110.htm


----------



## Calliope (13 February 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Kevin Rudd greets Lowitja O'Donoghue before delivering the apology. 

Sorry state of affairs

Nicolas Rothwell | February 13, 2009

Article from:  The Australian
THE first anniversary of the national apology to the Aboriginal Stolen Generations falls today, shadowed by financial turmoil and the heavy pall of bushfire smoke. It is shadowed, too, by promises unmet, commitments fading and fine words receding into the murk of time.


----------



## metric (13 February 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> Govt under fire for 'appalling' stimulus fire link -
> 
> I dont like Keven Rudd and this just cements my feelings, the man is a shifty, grubby little opportunist and I hope the Australian people now see him for what he is -
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/02/11/2488110.htm




and he cant wait till his ear wax is aged......


.


----------



## rhen (14 February 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> This irritates me too.  As does his general tone which is "I know more than you dumb voters ever will and you are just so lucky to have me here in charge of your lives."
> 
> I did, however, give him some brownie points yesterday for his very clear rejection of Mick Dodson's demand for the date of Australia Day to be changed.  He seems to have succeeded in putting that person, big black hat and all, back in his box, at least for now.




Your being a person who appreciates canines (as I do), it gave me a wry smile to remember the perhaps overused quote: "_"biting"_ the hand that feeds you" in respect to _"boxing"_ Mick (no disrespect intended).

Anyhow, I just wished to present two, more significant, quotes by Thomas Sowell:

_The assumption that spending more of the taxpayers’ money will make things better has survived all kinds of evidence that it has made things worse._

and

_It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong. _


----------



## Julia (14 February 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Great quotes, Rhen.  Thank you.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (14 February 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Rudd and Swan need to go, and soon.

Gillard and Tanner would make good replacements, either of them would be a better Prime Minister or Treasurer, take your pick, than Rudd and Swan are at present. Ditherers both of them.

gg


----------



## Julia (14 February 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

It won't happen, of course, gg, but I do agree with you.  Both Gillard and Tanner seem to be fairly authentic human beings, rather than the cardboard cutouts of Rudd and Swan, both of whom are way, way out of their depth.


----------



## Bobby (15 February 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

When I was very young there were toilets in Sydney's CBD that used to charge 2'P to use , thats 2 pennies pre 1966 .

They had a attendant in charge of taking this fee .
That job would be  perfect now for Mr Swan with his present SKILL levels ''


----------



## Calliope (15 February 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> Rudd and Swan need to go, and soon.
> 
> Gillard and Tanner would make good replacements, either of them would be a better Prime Minister or Treasurer, take your pick, than Rudd and Swan are at present. Ditherers both of them.
> 
> gg




It is a worry that not one of the Gang of Four has any credentials or experience on fiscal policy, so they have to run everything past Ken Henry. So you could say that the stimulation package has been cobbled together by amateurs but totally endorsed by someone who does not answer to the electorate.

They do have a Minister who has the economic credentials and experience. That is Craig Emerson. But he is not a member of the Gang of Four.


----------



## Wysiwyg (15 February 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> It is a worry that not one of the Gang of Four has any credentials or experience on fiscal policy, so they have to run everything past Ken Henry. So you could say that the stimulation package has been cobbled together by amateurs but totally endorsed by someone who does not answer to the electorate.
> 
> They do have a Minister who has the economic credentials and experience. That is Craig Emerson. But he is not a member of the Gang of Four.




They`re using the well worn path of  ... fake it till you make it.Besides, any government that hands us back our own money is lovable.


----------



## Calliope (18 February 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I think the time has come for Mr Rudd to swallow his pride and ask his wife for advice on how to get out of the hole he has dug. I see nothing wrong with this. After all Mrs Howard was a power behind the throne.

Ms Reine is the expert in the family on *making* money. Throughout his bureaucratic life Mr Rudd's expertise has been in *spending* money. Making the money has been the taxpayers problem not his. His concerns have been more with looking after the non-taxpayer. Their votes decide elections.

I am sure, if she wanted to, Therese could give him sound advice on how to to prevent Australia's slide into bankruptcy.


----------



## kincella (18 February 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

his wife needed no skills other than to line up and receive govt handouts....you know the money handed to any two bit player...for when they found a person a job.....thats where her money came from....and still does..
now if they put the person into the wrong job...and that person went looking for another job...the govt paid them 6000 again.....hows that for easy money....and no checks....

there were lots of funny things going on in that new industry....and still is today

he left the electricity running 24/7 to pretend an investment prop was his PPOR...so no CGT was payable on the sale....oh and he got the prop very cheap with inside information...
its all out there on the web....


----------



## Calliope (18 February 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Bobby said:


> When I was very young there were toilets in Sydney's CBD that used to charge 2'P to use , thats 2 pennies pre 1966 .
> 
> They had a attendant in charge of taking this fee .
> That job would be  perfect now for Mr Swan with his present SKILL levels ''




I remember those guys Bobby. But I think they had skill levels way out of reach of  Swanny. You will remember that when the pubs shut at 6PM the drunks had nowhere to go to relieve themselves but these toilets. Handling them required diplomatic skills. And they weren't always choosy about where they were sick. The attendants did a good job in keeping the place clean. They used to even wipe down the seats after each use.

In other words these guys performed a *useful and necessary* service.


----------



## MrBurns (18 February 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> I think the time has come for Mr Rudd to swallow his pride and ask his wife for advice on how to get out of the hole he has dug. I see nothing wrong with this. After all Mrs Howard was a power behind the throne.
> Ms Reine is the expert in the family on *making* money. Throughout his bureaucratic life Mr Rudd's expertise has been in *spending* money. Making the money has been the taxpayers problem not his. His concerns have been more with looking after the non-taxpayer. Their votes decide elections.
> I am sure, if she wanted to, Therese could give him sound advice on how to to prevent Australia's slide into bankruptcy.




All he needs to do is stop the handouts and give tax cuts across the board, that will at least encourage the *whole *economy and may even help employment.
Ahh but with tax cuts KRudd will have less to squander.

I'm sick of rubbishing KRudd he's such an easy target.


----------



## shaunQ (18 February 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> All he needs to do is stop the handouts and give tax cuts across the board, that will at least encourage the *whole *economy and may even help employment.
> Ahh but with tax cuts KRudd will have less to squander.




Its already been said, but he's also inherited a lot of squander - budget is down $120B+ over 4 years without any stimulus. They can't cut taxes without MASSIVE cuts to existing expenditure. Not saying the handout was a good alternative but I guess the idea is to give that money out without cutting income permanently.

What they really needed to do was spend say 0.1% of GDP on advertising and propaganda to tell you never had it so good.


----------



## rhen (23 February 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> All he needs to do is stop the handouts and give tax cuts across the board, that will at least encourage the *whole *economy and may even help employment.
> Ahh but with tax cuts KRudd will have less to squander.
> 
> I'm sick of rubbishing KRudd he's such an easy target.




Well then, let's study one of his cygnets:

_The Australian Black Swan (Cygnus atratus) has been noted for swimming with only one leg, the other leg being rotated over the body and tucked under its furled wings. Cygnets do this from a young age._http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swan

My Addendum: This enables the Australian "bird", (Cygnus atratus waynus) to swim in circles, sounding loudly as it whirlpools us deep into a recession and perhaps worse.

If you haven't already, read yet one more example of this: *Swan enthusiastic about emissions scheme*

http://www.businessspectator.com.au...tic-about-emissions-scheme-PH3JH?OpenDocument


----------



## Calliope (24 February 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

*Rudd a 'toxic bore' says Abbott*

He got that right


----------



## moXJO (24 February 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

$8B gone missing. Thats a fair size whack.



> ALMOST $8 billion has disappeared from the Federal Government's Building Australia Fund which was initially valued at $20 billion.
> The admission was made in a Senate estimates committee hearing yesterday by Communications Minister Stephen Conroy.
> 
> Greens senator Scott Ludlam has called for Prime Minister Kevin Rudd to immediately investigate the shortfall.
> ...




http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25099553-29277,00.html


----------



## Julia (24 February 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> *Rudd a 'toxic bore' says Abbott*
> 
> He got that right



Some quite fascinating dynamics happening between Mr Abbott and Julia Gillard. 

 Rather than being insulted by her description of him yesterday as being a "doberman" in contrast to Christopher Pyne's "poodle", Mr Abbott returned what he apparently perceived as a compliment by following his "toxic bore" description of Mr Rudd with the remark that Ms Gillard was a fine parliamentarian.


----------



## Calliope (26 February 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

No comment needed, except I think Ruddy is hilarious.


> *Toxic assets are not as hard to deal with as toxic bores
> *
> February 25, 2009
> 
> ...


----------



## pacestick (26 February 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I just think if in a time  like this  all tony abbot can do is talk about personality then the libs are finished as  apolitical force in Australia  which is a bit of a pity really


----------



## Buddy (26 February 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



pacestick said:


> I just think if in a time  like this  all tony abbot can do is talk about personality then the libs are finished as  apolitical force in Australia  which is a bit of a pity really




Rubbish! It's just the cut and thrust of politics. If you cant take the heat then get out of the kitchen. Whatever you say or whatever allegiance you hold, krudd remains a toxic bore!


----------



## Calliope (27 February 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

While Malcolm has yet to decide whether he is a conservative, a Liberal or a soft liberal, Kevin has no such idealogical worries.

He skips nimbly from one tenet to another following the rising (or falling) tide. He went from socialist to fiscal conservative and back again to socialist without missing a beat or affecting his popularity.

He has now nailed his flag to anti Neo-Liberalism. I have no idea what N-L t is but apparently it  is a bad thing, because Kev's popularity remains at record highs. 

The paradox is that during the age of the dreaded N-L, Ms Reine amassed a great deal of wealth and as a result the Rudd/Reine family are now the richest family ever to grace the Lodge.


----------



## MrBurns (27 February 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> The paradox is that during the age of the dreaded N-L, Ms Reine amassed a great deal of wealth and as a result the Rudd/Reine family are now the richest family ever to grace the Lodge.




And I'm sure she did that while paying the full amount of tax and not manipulating the system one bit


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (27 February 2009)

*Scribbler Rudd taken down*

I am sure that most ASF members wonder what Kev07 is actually doing as he studiously ignores the Opposition during Question Time, picking his ear and scribbling in an A4 haze.

He's actually writing articles which he feels are of great moment.

I read his recent article in the Monthly bagging free markets, but not being an economist I felt disinclined to comment.

He has now been roasted in an article that will appear in tomorrows Australian from Henry Ergas originally published on the Institute of Public Affairs site.

http://www.ipa.org.au/news/1809/the-crisis-and-beyond


Henry Ergas is a Canberra based economist.

What do we owe a Prime Minister? At the very least, to take what he says seriously. Mr Rudd, in his recently published essay on "The Global Financial Crisis" (The Monthly, February 2009), does not make that easy. His method consists of caricaturing his opponents, assaulting straw men, ignoring all contrary evidence, and then failing to explain his own philosophy with any clarity or detail. Nonetheless, the claims he makes, however unsatisfactory their expression, are important, all the more so as they represent his strongly-held views. They deserve to be treated as if the best case, rather than his case, had been made in their favour.

gg


----------



## Julia (27 February 2009)

*Re: Scribbler Rudd taken down*

I don't know what the circulation of "The Monthly" is, but suspect it doesn't reach most of the great mass of voters.  Pity.


----------



## beerwm (27 February 2009)

*Re: Scribbler Rudd taken down*

Thanks for the laugh kevin007

I always love the arguement that the free market doesnt work.
Especially considering it has never been tried.


----------



## johenmo (28 February 2009)

*Re: Scribbler Rudd taken down*

He's only writing articles when he's on the plane!  Got to fill in all those long flights with something.

What p****s me off is Mrs Rudd appears with him everywhere.  Does she pay for her own expenses?  I'd say it's unlikely.  And for Labour to go on about representing the worker and then spend like there's no tomorrow is hypocrisy.

Or can someone set me right that Therese pays her own way?  Or show how it's beneficial to OZ to have her with him.  Is he her puppet?


----------



## MrBurns (28 February 2009)

*Re: Scribbler Rudd taken down*



> "The Global Financial Crisis" (The Monthly, February 2009)




Saw that on display at the airport newsagent the other day, couldnt believe my eyes, how on earth would they expect to sell anything with that tosser on the front page advertising an essay he wrote on a subject he knows nothing about. (nothing useful anyway)


----------



## kincella (28 February 2009)

*Re: Scribbler Rudd taken down*

I dont like  Laurie Oaks...but are the mobs of one eyed suckers finally waking up to rudd ? well maybe this one only so far.
'how can a bloke who uses so many words be so inarticulate'
funny

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25115745-5000117,00.html


----------



## kincella (4 March 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

nor did ms reine's partner leave the air conditioner running,,,to prove electicity used in a vacant investment property...and called it his principal residence...to avoid capital gains tax on sale.....dont know where the article is but google and find it....
how dishonest is that ?????.....
and gilliard is demanding a plaque in each school with her name on it....and that she must make a presentation in each and every school ..the govt is providing funds for.....but the govts have been providing funds for schools since the inception.....
of course the media dont take up the issue.....but check out andrew bolt's blogs for refence....
how insane is this pack of morons......like the con job of obama.....


----------



## noirua (4 March 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

From where I view it, Kevin Rudd is a class act and probably too good for most of his countrymen, excluding me, who just can't see it.


----------



## Stormin_Norman (4 March 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

rudd's shot off pretty much all of his economic shots, and the enemy has only now just landed on the beaches.


----------



## metric (4 March 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

rudd is a second rate bureaucrat, with a pretty discusting personal hygene habit of eating his ear wax.

rudd is an embarrasment.



.


----------



## Aussiejeff (4 March 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



metric said:


> rudd is a second rate bureaucrat, with a pretty discusting personal hygene habit of eating his ear wax.
> 
> rudd is an embarrasment.
> 
> ...




Apparently, ear wax has dropped 0.5%.


----------



## MrBurns (4 March 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Hope some of you saw Rudd on the7:30 report, interviewed by Kerry O'Brien Rudd was very unconvincing answering good questions with the usual quotes and BS, there is absolutely no doubt even O'Brien would make a better PM

Rudd was boring, weak and bordering on just plain dumb.


----------



## Trembling Hand (4 March 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> Rudd was boring, weak and bordering on just plain dumb.


----------



## noirua (4 March 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> Hope some of you saw Rudd on the7:30 report, interviewed by Kerry O'Brien Rudd was very unconvincing answering good questions with the usual quotes and BS, there is absolutely no doubt even O'Brien would make a better PM
> 
> Rudd was boring, weak and bordering on just plain dumb.



Come on now MrBurns, how could we have a PM who has only achieved the position of Press Secretary under Labor PM Gough Whitlam?  Perhaps that's where the bias accusations have come from?


----------



## MrBurns (4 March 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noirua said:


> Come on now MrBurns, how could we have a PM who has only achieved the position of Press Secretary under Labor PM Gough Whitlam?  Perhaps that's where the bias accusations have come from?




No, O'Brien is far more intelligent than Rudd, there's no bias, just an an observation thats impossible to ignore. 
Rudd under the spotlight of O'Briens questioning came up smelling like manure.
He's not very smart, he jusr parrots the same lines fed to him that morning by his keepers.


----------



## Calliope (4 March 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> Rudd was boring, weak and bordering on just plain dumb.




and equivocating, prevaricating, pompous, slippery and dangerous.


----------



## MrBurns (4 March 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I'm disappointed O'Brien didn't throw out the rest of the show and just continue with Rudd for the half hour, I think there would be a good chance O'Brien could have made him slip up or just continuing the way he was going he would have clearly exposed Rudd 's substantial deficiencies.


----------



## noirua (4 March 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> No, O'Brien is far more intelligent than Rudd, there's no bias, just an an observation thats impossible to ignore.
> Rudd under the spotlight of O'Briens questioning came up smelling like manure.
> He's not very smart, he jusr parrots the same lines fed to him that morning by his keepers.



Looks like one of the most clever and intelligent guys on the block:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Rudd


----------



## MrBurns (4 March 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

A life of academia and public service, never had a job, cunning and as as Calliope said, slippery and dangerous.


----------



## moXJO (4 March 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noirua said:


> Looks like one of the most clever and intelligent guys on the block:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Rudd




Forget fish, earwax is brain food


----------



## noirua (4 March 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> A life of academia and public service, never had a job, cunning and as as Calliope said, slippery and dangerous.



Looks as if no one will get a hand on our PM.  Should be around for a longtime if his health holds up.
"Never had a job", you say MrBurns.  He held positions abroad in foreign embassies and even had a job cleaning to fund his studies.


----------



## Calliope (4 March 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noirua said:


> Looks as if no one will get a hand on our PM.  Should be around for a longtime if his health holds up.
> "Never had a job", you say MrBurns.  He held positions abroad in foreign embassies and even had a job cleaning to fund his studies.




I admire your loyalty to Rudd, but as Mr Burns has pointed out he has never actually *done anything*. He has had taxpayer funded  jobs all his life ( except for the cleaning and we don't know if he was any  good at that.)


----------



## Julia (4 March 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> No, O'Brien is far more intelligent than Rudd, there's no bias, just an an observation thats impossible to ignore.
> Rudd under the spotlight of O'Briens questioning came up smelling like manure.
> He's not very smart, he jusr parrots the same lines fed to him that morning by his keepers.






Calliope said:


> and equivocating, prevaricating, pompous, slippery and dangerous.






MrBurns said:


> I'm disappointed O'Brien didn't throw out the rest of the show and just continue with Rudd for the half hour, I think there would be a good chance O'Brien could have made him slip up or just continuing the way he was going he would have clearly exposed Rudd 's substantial deficiencies.



I agree with al the above, but I'm not sure Kerry O'Brien was as demanding of Mr Rudd as he always is with Malcolm Turnbull.  It's fairly clear on which side of the political fence Kerry O'Brien sits.  I think maybe I'm so fed up with Rudd that I flick through the other channels when he's being interviewed.





Calliope said:


> I admire your loyalty to Rudd, but as Mr Burns has pointed out he has never actually *done anything*. He has had taxpayer funded  jobs all his life ( except for the cleaning and we don't know if he was any  good at that.)



Now that is just really unkind, Calliope.  I'd imagine Mr Rudd would be a top cleaner - just consider his obsession with detail and capacity to nit pick.  Don't you think that would transfer really well to perfect cleaning?


----------



## Calliope (5 March 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Last night Mr Rudd was very cagey about the implementation date for the ETS. Both he and Swan are careful not to say anything to give the impression that they would delay the start up a year or two beyond 2010.

They are relying on the Senate to reject the scheme in it's present form. They can then lay the blame on Turnbull, and avoid being seen as breaking a promise.


----------



## MrBurns (6 March 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Costello nailed Rudd last night but I wish he would get off his **** and get back on the front bench - 



> Liberal backbencher Peter Costello has put himself back in the political spotlight with an attack on Prime Minister Kevin Rudd.
> 
> On ABC1's Q and A last night, the former treasurer criticised the Government's handling of the economic crisis, in particular, the use of cash handouts to stimulate economic activity.
> 
> ...


----------



## Aussiejeff (6 March 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



> *THE federal government will try to retrieve taxpayers' money given to Pacific Brands in view of the company's decision to slash 1850 jobs, Prime Minister Kevin Rudd said.*



http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25146868-5005961,00.html

Oo-er! Gee, that will inspire confidence no end! How much will the legal case cost taxpayers? $20 Million???

Will this "populist policy" rave party ever end?????


----------



## rhen (13 March 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

There's no doubt where Jim Rogers stands on this question:
Jim Rogers Says Hyperinflation Will Consume US (towards the end)...
http://www.allthingsjimrogers.com/2009/03/12/jim-rogers-says-hyperinflation-will-consume-us/


----------



## noirua (13 March 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

We must just accept that PM Kevin Rudd is Americas' man in the Far East. The only one, and he is right to make the most of it.  Good luck to him I say!
Costello is yesterday's man, not a spent force, but a general pain in the butt.


----------



## rhen (17 March 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

An email doing the rounds right now:

Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009
> 
> To All My Valued Employees,
> 
> There have been some rumblings around the office about the future of
> this company, and more specifically, your job. As you know, the economy
> has changed for the worse and presents many challenges. However, the
> good news is this: The economy doesn't pose a threat to your job. What
> does threaten your job; however, is the changing political landscape in
> this country.
> 
> However, let me tell you some little tidbits of fact which might help
> you decide what is in your best interests.
> 
> First, while it is easy to spew rhetoric that casts employers against
> employees, you have to understand that for every business owner there is
> a back story. This back story is often neglected and overshadowed by
> what you see and hear. Sure, you see me park my Subaru Outback outside.
> You've seen my big home at last year's Christmas party. I'm sure all
> these flashy icons of luxury conjure up some idealised thoughts about my
> life.
> 
> However, what you don't see is the back story.
> 
> I started this company 28 years ago. At that time, I lived in a 2
> bedroom flat for 3 years. My entire living area was converted into an
> office so I could put forth 100% effort into building a company, which
> by the way, would eventually employ you.
> 
> My diet consisted of baked beans, stew and soup because every dollar I
> spent went back into this company. I drove a rusty Toyota Corolla with a
> wonky transmission. I didn't have time to go out with women. Often
> times, I stayed home on weekends, while my friends went out drinking and
> partying. In fact, I was married to my business -- hard work,
> discipline, and sacrifice.
> 
> Meanwhile, my friends got jobs. They worked 40 hours a week and made a
> modest $50,000 a year and spent every dime they earned. They drove
> flashy cars and lived in expensive homes and wore fancy designer
> clothes. Instead of hitting the David Jones for the latest hot fashion
> item, I was trolling through the discount store extracting any clothing
> item that didn't look like it was birthed in the 70's. My friends
> refinanced their mortgages and lived a life of luxury. I, however, did
> not. I put my time, my money, and my life into a business with a vision
> that eventually, some day, I too, will be able to afford these luxuries
> my friends supposedly had.
> 
> So, while you physically arrive at the office at 9am, mentally check in
> at about noon, and then leave at 5pm, I don't. There is no "off" button
> for me. When you leave the office, you are done and you have a weekend
> all to yourself. I unfortunately do not have the freedom. I eat, and
> breathe this company every minute of the day. There is no rest. There is
> no weekend. There is no happy hour. Every day this business is attached
> to my hip like a 1 year old special-needs child. You, of course, only
> see the fruits of that garden -- the nice house, the Subaru, the
> vacations... you never realise the back story and the sacrifices I've
> made.
> 
> Now, the economy is falling apart and I, the guy that made all the right
> decisions and saved his money, have to bail-out all the people who
> didn't. The people that overspent their pay suddenly feel entitled to
> the same luxuries that I earned and sacrificed a decade of my life for.
> 
> Yes, business ownership has its benefits but the price I've paid is
> steep and not without wounds.
> 
> Unfortunately, the cost of running this business, and employing you, is
> starting to eclipse the threshold of marginal benefit and let me tell
> you why:
> 
> I am being taxed to death and the government thinks I don't pay enough.
> I have state taxes. Federal taxes. Property taxes. Sales and use taxes.
> Payroll taxes. Workers compensation. Unemployment taxes. Taxes on taxes.
> I have to hire a accountant to manage all these taxes and then guess
> what? I have to pay taxes for employing him. Government mandates and
> regulations and all the accounting that goes with it, now occupy most of
> my time. On Oct 15th, I wrote a cheque to the Australian tax Office for
> $288,000 for quarterly taxes. You know what my "stimulus" cheque was?
> Zero. Zip. Zilch.
> 
> The question I have is this: Who is stimulating the economy? Me, the guy
> who has provided 14 people good paying jobs and serves over 2,200,000
> people per year with a flourishing business? Or, the single mother
> sitting at home pregnant with her fourth child waiting for her next
> welfare cheque? Obviously, government feels the latter is the economic
> stimulus of this country.
> 
> The fact is, if I deducted (Read: Stole) 50% of your pay you'd quit and
> you wouldn't work here. I mean, why should you? That's nuts. Who wants
> to get rewarded only 50% of their hard work? Well, I agree which is why
> your job is in jeopardy.
> 
> Here is what many of you don't understand ... to stimulate the economy
> you need to stimulate what runs the economy. Had the government suddenly
> mandated to me that I didn't need to pay taxes, guess what? Instead of
> depositing that $288,000 into the Canberra black-hole, I would have
> spent it, hired more employees, and generated substantial economic
> growth. My employees would have enjoyed the wealth of that tax cut in
> the form of promotions and better salaries. But you can forget it now.
> 
> When you have a comatose man on the verge of death, you don't
> defibrillate and shock his thumb thinking that will bring him back to
> life, do you? Or, do you defibrillate his heart? Business is at the
> heart of Australia and always has been. To restart it, you must
> stimulate it, not kill it. But the power brokers in Canberra believe the
> poor of Australia are the essential drivers of the Australian economic
> engine. Nothing could be further from the truth and this is the type of
> change you can keep.
> 
> So where am I going with all this? It's quite simple.
> 
> If any new taxes are levied on me, or my company, my reaction will be
> swift and simple. I fire you. I fire your co-workers. You can then plead
> with the government to pay for your mortgage, your 4WD and your child's
> future. Frankly, it isn't my problem any more.
> 
> Then, I will close this company down, move to another country, and
> retire. You see, I'm done. I'm done with a country that penalises the
> productive and gives to the unproductive. My motivation to work and to
> provide jobs will be destroyed, and with it, will be my citizenship.
> 
> So, if you lose your job, it won't be at the hands of the economy; it
> will be at the hands of a politicians that swept through this country
> changed its financial landscape forever. If that happens, you can find
> me sitting on a beach, retired, and with no employees to worry about....
> Signed,
>
I have left off the remainder since I can't verify the writer as given.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (17 March 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



rhen said:


> An email doing the rounds right now:
> 
> Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009
> >
> ...




Excellent rhen

Richie Rich Rudd will be a very small footnote in the history of Australia with a large corpus of quotes, speeches and other drivel he goes with.

gg


----------



## noirua (23 March 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Kevin Rudd will appear on several UK TV interviews next weekend. Will be interesting to see how it goes.


----------



## MrBurns (23 March 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noirua said:


> Kevin Rudd will appear on several UK TV interviews next weekend. Will be interesting to see how it goes.




Let's link *HIS* pay to performance, at present he owes up about $1b


----------



## Happy (23 March 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> Let's link *HIS* pay to performance, at present he owes up about $1b




Yes, that idea of spending our way out of recession is totally against any logic.

Who said that recession is bad?
Like human being you grow to certain age then stay the same for a while to shrink between 7 to 15 centimeters closer to the other end of life.

So not growing or shrinking economy is sign of maturity not disaster!


----------



## Calliope (28 March 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Anything Howard could do, Rudd can do better.


----------



## Julia (9 April 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Reading some letters to the Courier Mail today, one contributor referred to the Leader as "The Kevinator".

I really like this.  Either GG or Mr Burns (apologies to whomever it isn't) uses "Ruddmeister" which is also good.
Something about "The Kevinator"  which conveys his robot like delivery, I think.


----------



## Bafana (9 April 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Rudd's like the downtrodden geek who finally gets the girl, the cash and the condo (revenge of the nerds style). Got to love him. Better than turnip who can only agree to disagree with everything - Boring lah.


----------



## Bobby (9 April 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

He may soon surpass Whitlam  

Kevs     -- :crap:


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (9 April 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Anything Howard could do, Rudd can do better.






Julia said:


> Reading some letters to the Courier Mail today, one contributor referred to the Leader as "The Kevinator".
> 
> I really like this.  Either GG or Mr Burns (apologies to whomever it isn't) uses "Ruddmeister" which is also good.
> Something about "The Kevinator"  which conveys his robot like delivery, I think.




twas I unless  I've stolen Mr.Burns thunder.

He is a control freak, with the emphasis on freak.

There is a notable lack of people in Rudd's past who can commentate on him as a human being, "a good guy" " a good bloke in atight corner" "loyal" etc etc.

He is one of these godbothering swivvle headers who rises to the top.

He's brilliant, intelligent and able , and if he keeps cool, will go down as one of the greater PM's.

But there is that lack of a past, or future, he may blow up, and if he does it will be spectacular.

The ALP are very suspicious of him so he has to watch his back as well as his enemies on the cross benches.

the Ruddmeister

gg


----------



## rederob (9 April 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> There is a notable lack of people in Rudd's past who can commentate on him as a human being, "a good guy" " a good bloke in atight corner" "loyal" etc etc.
> 
> He is one of these godbothering swivvle headers who rises to the top.
> 
> ...



Rudd has had to make his own way, and is "driven" to succeed.
When Beazley was on the way out, Rudd wasn't even on the radar as a replacement. 
For a very long time Kev and the affable Joe appeared on the Morning Show with Koshie and appealed to a very wide audience with his personality as well as his brain.
It's pure codswallop that few in Rudd's past would call him a good guy" or lacking loyalty, unless they were on the "other" side.
Although Swan does not inspire the confidence that Costello would, the opposite is true with Rudd.  Like Obama, he's the right man for the times.
Some here retain the sour grapes they have sucked since Howard lost an unlosable election.  Get over it children.


----------



## MrBurns (10 April 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



rederob said:


> Rudd has had to make his own way, and is "driven" to succeed.
> When Beazley was on the way out, Rudd wasn't even on the radar as a replacement.
> For a very long time Kev and the affable Joe appeared on the Morning Show with Koshie and appealed to a very wide audience with his personality as well as his brain.
> It's pure codswallop that few in Rudd's past would call him a good guy" or lacking loyalty, unless they were on the "other" side.
> ...




The game is far from over and I see Rudd as creating a mess far greater than we deserve. Couldnt care less who won the election as long as they do the job and I cant see that Rudd is doing that at present.


----------



## gav (10 April 2009)

*The Kevin Rudd Tapes*

Finally some proof of what was said on "that flight".  What a pompus arrogant wanker...

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailyteleg...raph/comments/exclusive_the_kevin_rudd_tapes/

*The Kevin Rudd Tapes*

In yet another bombshell revelation it has now emerged that Kevin Rudd’s air-rage incident was captured on tape during some routine surveillance by the Defence Signals Directorate. 

Finally the truth can be revealed… 

TRANSCRIPT OF CONVERSATION INTERCEPTED BY DEFENCE SIGNALS DIRECTORATE 

OPERATION: RED LEADER 

DATE: JANUARY 27 2009 

TIME: 1916 HOURS 

LOCATION: RAAF VIP FLIGHT FROM PORT MORESBY TO CANBERRA 

Interception commences 

FEMALE VOICE: Can I get you something to eat sir? 

MALE VOICE: On the question of whether or not you can get me something to eat, let me just say this: I am rather peckish actually. What have you got? 

FEMALE VOICE: We have a prime rib-eye. Grain fed Wagyu, aged over a hundred days. 

MALE VOICE: Wagyu? That’s in Japan right? Why don’t we stop by and pick up a couple of California rolls. Pilot! Take the next left. 

FEMALE VOICE: Um, actually sir Wagyu is a type of beef. 

MALE VOICE: A type of what now? 

FEMALE VOICE: Beef. 

MALE VOICE: Come again? 

FEMALE VOICE: Beef sir. Wagyu is a large beast of burden with a lot of fatty meat that makes it easy and enjoyable to devour. 

MALE VOICE: You mean like Kim Beazley? 

FEMALE VOICE: Well, no, it’s more like, you know, cattle. 

MALE VOICE: Oh, you mean like caucus. 

FEMALE VOICE: Um, no sir. It’s a type of beef. A type of meat. 

MALE VOICE: What was that? 

FEMALE VOICE: Meat sir. 

MALE VOICE: Meeee…? 

FEMALE VOICE: …eat. 

MALE VOICE: The what you say? 

FEMALE VOICE: Meat. It comes from animals and you eat it. 

MALE VOICE: That doesn’t sound very hygienic. 

FEMALE VOICE: Well you cook it first. 

MALE VOICE: That must hurt the animals. 

FEMALE VOICE: Well no, the animals are dead. 

MALE VOICE: Dead? How did that happen? 

FEMALE VOICE: Well, they are killed sir. 

MALE VOICE: Killed? Good Lord, we’re as bad as the Japanese. Pilot! Turn back around. We’re going to Canberra again. <<>> 

FEMALE VOICE: Um, it’s not so bad sir. The animals are killed very quickly and they don’t even know it’s coming. 

MALE VOICE: You mean like Kim Beazley? 

FEMALE VOICE: Um, not really sir. It all happens in a slaughterhouse. 

MALE VOICE: You mean like caucus? You know miss, we appear to be going around in circles. 

FEMALE VOICE: I’m sorry sir. I… 

MALE VOICE: No, I mean the plane. Isn’t that the same cloud we passed before? 

FEMALE VOICE: Ummm, I think it’s a different one sir. 

MALE VOICE: Thank God for that. You sure it’s not just the first one in a different shape? 

FEMALE VOICE: Quite sure sir. 

MALE VOICE: Oh good. So, back to this “meat” business… 

FEMALE VOICE: Yes sir? 

MALE VOICE: Not sure if I really like the sound of it to be honest. 

FEMALE VOICE: I beg your pardon sir? 

MALE VOICE: I’m more of a “potatoes man” if you know what I mean. 

FEMALE VOICE: You mean… 

MALE VOICE: Sort of like “meat and potatoes man” but without the “meat”. 

FEMALE VOICE: I see. 

MALE VOICE: Sort of like the Labor Party… 

FEMALE VOICE: …without Kim Beazley? 

MALE VOICE: Oh that’s a good one. I’m writing that down. 

FEMALE VOICE: Thank you sir. 

MALE VOICE: So back to the, er, situation… 

FEMALE VOICE: Yes sir. 

MALE VOICE: Do you have anything that’s not, ah, how can I put this… 

FEMALE VOICE: Not meat? 

MALE VOICE: Spot on! You know you’re very good at this. Hey there’s that cloud again. 

FEMALE VOICE: I think that’s a different cloud sir. 

MALE VOICE: Wow. 

FEMALE VOICE: It’s the wonder of creation sir. 

MALE VOICE: It is. It truly is… So, about the, ah… 

FEMALE VOICE: The meat sir? 

MALE VOICE: Er yes, the meat. Look I don’t want to make a fuss or anything but do you happen by any chance to have anything that’s not what you might conventionally consider to be… 

FEMALE VOICE: …meat? 

MALE VOICE: Exactly! 

FEMALE VOICE: I’m afraid not sir. 

MALE VOICE: Right. Well go @#% yourself then. 

Interception terminates


----------



## gouryella (11 April 2009)

*Re: The Kevin Rudd Tapes*

Is that legit?


----------



## Naked shorts (11 April 2009)

*Re: The Kevin Rudd Tapes*

hahahah love it!


----------



## MrBurns (11 April 2009)

*Re: The Kevin Rudd Tapes*

If thats correct it absolutely confirms the AU public made a huge blunder at the election. NEVER toss out a leader because you don't like him before thinking about who will replace him, all that he has shown of himself there will flow over into his work, he cant be trusted and is not a decent person.

His work will be flawed, so our gut feel about him was right, another Latham in different clothes.


----------



## Naked shorts (11 April 2009)

*Re: The Kevin Rudd Tapes*



MrBurns said:


> If thats correct it absolutely confirms the AU public made a huge blunder at the election. NEVER toss out a leader because you don't like him before thinking about who will replace him, all that he has shown of himself there will flow over into his work, he cant be trusted and is not a decent person.
> 
> His work will be flawed, so our gut feel about him was right, another Latham in different clothes.




Please dont turn this joke thread into some political war. We all know it won't achieve anything and will only result in people getting offended.


----------



## MrBurns (11 April 2009)

*Re: The Kevin Rudd Tapes*

Is it a joke ? seems to be on a legit web site, though seems unlikely to be an actual coversation.


----------



## drsmith (11 April 2009)

*Re: The Kevin Rudd Tapes*

The only part of that converstion that could possibly be real is the last line. 

If it is (and that's a very big if) then it suggests cultural issues within the ALP that go well beyond it's leader.


----------



## MrBurns (11 April 2009)

*Re: The Kevin Rudd Tapes*

The URL seems correct, though I dont believe that could be a real conversation.


----------



## MrBurns (11 April 2009)

*Re: The Kevin Rudd Tapes*

Well it's a genuine article on the News.com.au web site, but obviously untrue or a joke or others would be on to it by now.

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailyteleg...raph/comments/exclusive_the_kevin_rudd_tapes/


----------



## MrBurns (11 April 2009)

*Re: The Kevin Rudd Tapes*

He's just a satirist but his title seems to be political jounalist ?

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/joehildebrand/index.php


----------



## Julia (11 April 2009)

*Re: The Kevin Rudd Tapes*

It didn't occur to me for a second that it was legit.  Would have been allover the media if it were.   Quite clearly exaggerated.
However, it says something about Rudd that someone is prepared to lampoon him to this extent.
How is it that the dreaded polls still show him with an astonishing popularity?


----------



## Solly (11 April 2009)

*Re: The Kevin Rudd Tapes*



Julia said:


> It didn't occur to me for a second that it was legit.  Would have been allover the media if it were.   Quite clearly exaggerated.
> However, it says something about Rudd that someone is prepared to lampoon him to this extent.
> How is it that the dreaded polls still show him with an astonishing popularity?




Julia, I think it is time for me to email Jullian Morrow...


----------



## Julia (11 April 2009)

*Re: The Kevin Rudd Tapes*



Solly said:


> Julia, I think it is time for me to email Jullian Morrow...



Yes indeed, Solly.
Btw, wherever are The Chasers?  Seems like forever since they brightened our doleful  lives.  Such rich sources of material for them at present too.


----------



## MrBurns (11 April 2009)

*Re: The Kevin Rudd Tapes*

Well I thought it was highly unlikely but it was on the News Ltd web site and I've never known them to indulge in that type of humour.


----------



## Solly (11 April 2009)

*Re: The Kevin Rudd Tapes*



Julia said:


> Yes indeed, Solly.
> Btw, wherever are The Chasers?  Seems like forever since they brightened our doleful  lives.  Such rich sources of material for them at present too.




Julia I've been told they will be back soon on the ABC, I can't wait.!!
Next time I'm in Syd I'll see my source and see if there's anything definite


----------



## Julia (11 April 2009)

*Re: The Kevin Rudd Tapes*



Solly said:


> Julia I've been told they will be back soon on the ABC, I can't wait.!!
> Next time I'm in Syd I'll see my source and see if there's anything definite



Maybe do some old fashioned grovelling?  Perhaps I need to get a life but their show was just the highlight of the week.  Would just love to see them doing K. Rudd.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (18 April 2009)

*New Holes in Rudd's Belief*

On April 1st some independent thinkers in Russia briefly debated some new ideas in Leninist theory and simultaneously blew a huge hole in Kevin Rudd's pompous approach to Australia's social and political problems

What a joke.

The fools.

As if.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7976883.stm


----------



## Happy (20 April 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



> From ABC, 20 Feb. 09
> 
> RECESSION IS INEVITABLE: RUDD
> 
> ...




How come we knew that and Kevin didn’t?

My question again, is the broadband the most important investment he can think of?


----------



## Julia (20 April 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Happy said:


> How come we knew that and Kevin didn’t?
> 
> My question again, is the broadband the most important investment he can think of?



Of course he knew it, Happy.  He was just seeking to divert attention away from the boat incident.  It was a meaningless announcement for no other reason.


----------



## OK2 (25 April 2009)

*Rudd's $100 billion military build-up*

Rudd went about sighting uncertainty in the Asia region outlook for the $100 billion military plan. 

Is there a better way to get through a recession or depression? Bring on the war machines.


----------



## moXJO (25 April 2009)

*Re: Rudd's $100 billion military build-up*



OK2 said:


> Rudd went about sighting uncertainty in the Asia region outlook for the $100 billion military plan.
> 
> Is there a better way to get through a recession or depression? Bring on the war machines.




Is it true we are building more submarines then we can man? WTF do we need so many subs for anyway. I would have thought better air capabilities would be more desirable.


----------



## Largesse (25 April 2009)

*Re: Rudd's $100 billion military build-up*

Chairman Rudd doing his thing.

How long until we have miltary hardware parades in the streets?


----------



## Absolutely (25 April 2009)

*Re: Rudd's $100 billion military build-up*



moXJO said:


> Is it true we are building more submarines then we can man? WTF do we need so many subs for anyway. I would have thought better air capabilities would be more desirable.




Yes no on to man a military much bigger then we currently have. And our existing population getting older too.

Hope they got a plan in that regard which doesn't include importing cheap chinese labour because somehow, I don't think that gonna work.


----------



## Sean K (25 April 2009)

*Re: Rudd's $100 billion military build-up*

Let's stop military spending completely I say.

And divert all that money to something really useful.

Like free Yo Yo's for all.


----------



## MACCA350 (25 April 2009)

*Re: Rudd's $100 billion military build-up*

I bet Rudd isn't the one that controls the money in his own house, yet his been given THE Australian credit card

cheers


----------



## So_Cynical (25 April 2009)

*Re: Rudd's $100 billion military build-up*

The bulk of our (big) military equipment is old and needs replacing, and those replacements are expensive.

So whats new here...why is this an issue. :dunno:

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25384698-5017817,00.html


100 F-35 joint strike fighters.
12 submarines
Eight 7000-tonne warships equipped with ballistic missile defence systems
27 anti-submarine helicopters


----------



## pacestick (25 April 2009)

*Re: Rudd's $100 billion military build-up*



So_Cynical said:


> The bulk of our (big) military equipment is old and needs replacing, and those replacements are expensive.
> 
> So whats new here...why is this an issue. :dunno:



 hear hear


----------



## kitehigh (25 April 2009)

*Re: Rudd's $100 billion military build-up*



moXJO said:


> Is it true we are building more submarines then we can man? WTF do we need so many subs for anyway. I would have thought better air capabilities would be more desirable.




Australia is an Island and therefore any potential aggressor that wishes to launch a full scale invasion will eventually have to use shipping to maintain such an invasion.  This is where subs come in.  They can effectively neutralize any hostile shipping activities.  They are also a very effective deterrent as the Argentinian's can attest to after they lost their largest Battleship, the Belgrano during the Falklands war.


----------



## moXJO (25 April 2009)

*Re: Rudd's $100 billion military build-up*



kitehigh said:


> Australia is an Island and therefore any potential aggressor that wishes to launch a full scale invasion will eventually have to use shipping to maintain such an invasion.  This is where subs come in.  They can effectively neutralize any hostile shipping activities.  They are also a very effective deterrent as the Argentinian's can attest to after they lost their largest Battleship, the Belgrano during the Falklands war.




This is my point
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25311813-5014047,00.html


> even the best recruiting strategy may not lure enough gen-Y school-leavers to properly man the 12 submarines that may be called for in the new Defence white paper. At present, the navy can barely man three of the six Collins-class submarines.




Half our crap ends up sitting in docks or warehouses rotting. And money seems to be spent on white elephants as often as possible. A lot leave the defense force from sheer frustration. 

I am not saying they shouldn’t' spend money. When I was in there we had combat knives we couldn't stick into things because the point would break off. And the wire cutter feature was for show only as it would also break on first attempt. Guns heating up and jamming. One guy in our unit was issued pants (this was in 1997) from the 1970's. And was often joked the pants had seen more action then he had. God only knows they needed the money. 
But I just hope the people who decide on these purchases know the ins and outs of where the defense force is at.


----------



## rhen (8 May 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

An email doing the rounds brought a smile so thought I should share same (sorry I couldn't include the pictures)...
It's subject is "Three New Navy Ships"



1.The USS REAGAN 

Seeing it next to the Arizona Memorial really puts its size into perspective... ENORMOUS! 


BEAUTIFUL! 

 When the Bridge pipes 'Man the Rail' there is a lot of rail to man on this monster: shoulder to shoulder, around 45 acres.  Her displacement is about 100,000 tons with full complement.    

 Capability 

 Top speed exceeds 30 knots, powered by two nuclear reactors that can operate for more than 20 years without refuelling 

 1. Expected to operate in the fleet for about 50 years 

 2 Carries over 80 combat aircraft   

 3. Three arresting cables can stop a 28 - ton aircraft going 150 miles per hour in less than 400 feet 

 Size 

1. Towers 20 stories above the waterline   
2. 1092 feet long; nearly as long as the Empire State Building is tall 
3.  Flight deck covers 4.5 acres 
4.  4 bronze propellers, each 21 feet across, weighing 66,200  pounds 
5.  2 rudders, each 29 by 22 feet and weighing 50 tons 
6.  4 high speed aircraft elevators, each over 4,000 sq ft capacity 
7. Home to about 6,000 Navy personnel   
8. Carries enough food and supplies to operate for 90 days 
9.  18,150 meals served daily 
10.  Distillation plants provide 400,000 gallons of fresh water from sea water daily, enough for 2,000 homes 
11.  Nearly 30,000 light fixtures and 1,325 miles of cable and wiring 1,400 telephones 
12. 14,000 pillowcases and 28,000 sheets 
13.. Costs the Navy approximately $250,000 per day for pier side operation   
14. Costs the Navy approximately $25 million per day for underway operations (Sailor's salaries included). 


2. The HMAS Gough Whitlam 
Sunday, July 20, 2008 Sydney .  Headed for Newcastle ,  the Australian welcomed the latest member of its fleet today. The HMAS Gough Whitlam set sail today from its home port of Sydney .    



The ship is the first of its kind in the Navy and is a standing legacy to Prime Minister Whitlam for his foresight in military budget cuts and his conduct while Prime Minister. 

The ship is constructed nearly entirely from recycled aluminium and is completely solar powered with a top speed of 5 knots.   It boasts an arsenal comprised of one (unarmed) F14 Tomcat or one (unarmed) F18 Hornet aircraft which, although they cannot be launched or captured on the 100 foot flight deck, form a very menacing presence. 

 As a standing order there are no firearms allowed on board. 

 The 20 person crew is completely diversified, including members of all races, creeds, sex, and sexual orientation. 

This crew, like the crew aboard the Manly Ferry, is specially trained to avoid conflicts and 
appease any and all enemies of Australia at all costs!    

An on - board Type One DNC Universal Translator can send out messages of apology in any language to anyone who may find Australia offensive.  The number of apologies are limitless and though some may seem hollow and disingenuous, the Navy advises all apologies will sound very sincere.    

The ship's purpose is not defined so much as a unit of national defense, but instead in times of conflict, the HMAS Gough Whitlam has orders to seek refuge in New Zealand . 


The ship may be positioned near the Labor Party Headquarters for photo - ops. 
The Whitlams  Should be very proud. 


And the newest:  -      

3. The HMAS Kevin Rudd, sailing in from South East Asia, once a week.


----------



## rhen (12 May 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Commentary
7:47 AM, 11 May 2009

http://www.businessspectator.com.au...eeds-a-new-tune-pd20090511-RWT84?OpenDocument

Robert Gottliebsen

    Rudd needs a new tune

    Kevin 'GFC' Rudd may not be exactly a modern day Chicken Little, but he is part of the problem that is multiplying the reduction in Australian business activity.

    Someone needs to tell him that just because the Australian skies are raining money does not mean they will fall in. The global problem is not as great as we feared and Rudd’s daily warnings of a global financial crisis have become part of the problem.

    Rudd’s GFC warnings are in stark contrast to US President Obama who keeps telling Americans how he will save them. So how do we stop the Australian Prime Minister from becoming a complete Chicken Little?

    Step one: let's send the mandarin speaking Kevin Rudd on a fact finding mission, first to China and then on to the US. He will discover that while the global economy is going to be tough it now seems that this GFC is unlikely to be anywhere near as bad as we first thought.

    Step two: send him a DVD of President Obama’s speeches.

    Step three: start a slow hand clap every time we hear him mention the words “ global financial crisis”.

    To be fair to Kevin Rudd, two months ago China’s growth rate had fallen to levels that were expected to cause serious social disruption and were decimating our metal prices. Just as serious, the IMF was forecasting enormous additional bank losses and a huge decline in economic activity.

    My China-watchers say that China is set to grow around 8 per cent in calendar 2009 which would be a remarkable achievement. The Chinese stimulus package, which included massive bank lending, is working. And better still, it is directed at metals-intensive spending (construction, telecommunications etc), so there is renewed demand for metals and the Chinese are stockpiling copper and other metals, sending up prices.

    The US stress tests on its banks have revealed that American banks have nowhere near the problems that the IMF predicted. It is possible that the stress tests were inadequate, but that’s unlikely. The task of the US government is to get its banks lending again, but there are all sorts of signs of minor recovery (A global triumph, May 8). America is not going to go shooting upwards, but President Obama's words have played a big role in turning the economy around.

    And we are seeing that changing trend in the share market rises. By contrast, I expect in tomorrow’s budget each time Wayne Swan breaks an election promise he will try to out-do his Prime Minister in the number of mentions of the “global financial crisis”.

    Let me give a small example of how the Rudd rhetoric is starting to become damaging in small ways which then multiply thousands of times.

    One of Australia’s largest accounting firms is doing very well but they have been subjected to so many global financial crisis warnings from our Prime Minister that they decided to do something really radical – they would stop buying fruit for executives who work long hours. So some poor contractor has had to go home to and tell his or her spouse that the family must tighten their belt. Meanwhile the accounting firm’s productivity has fallen because executives waste time to go down the street and buy their fruit. It's unfair to blame Kevin Rudd for such decisions, but nevertheless he has become part of the problem.

    Having seen money rain from the sky, we are now going to get a budget that will pay for the money showers by a series of nasty measures. You could argue that the money showers were necessary, but so is confidence.

    I am the first to admit that two months ago I believed the IMF and was worried about China. Kevin Rudd should be big enough to admit the same and tell the Australian people why share markets are rising. That’s what I have done (Two pillars of prosperity, April 20).

    Meanwhile, don’t forget the slow hand clap each time you hear Rudd say the GFC words on radio, TV and the net, or you read them on the net and in print. It will make you feel much better.


----------



## Julia (12 May 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Rhen, you beat me to posting Gottliebsen's article which is very good.

Tonight in Swan's opening to his Budget speech, for the very first time he talked about our capacity to ultimately come out well from the GFC, the resilient character of Australians etc.

We'd have been much better served if he and Rudd had taken this sort of focus from the start instead of constantly talking down the global and domestic economy.


----------



## Calliope (12 May 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

No not really. I watched him tonight while Swan was reading his budget speech, His melon head kept nodding and his little mouth kept mouthing "hear, hear."

He is giving the seal of approval to the most disastrous Budget in my memory. This Budget was designed to upset nobody and in the process root the country. And they justify this huge deficit based on the premise that we will return to 4.5% positive growth in a couple of years.


----------



## Calliope (14 May 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

* 
PM Rudd wants more footballer respect for women*



> Mr Rudd said the matter was "very difficult and very sensitive''.
> 
> "It's very important for all leaders of sporting organisations, all sporting clubs and all sporting teams in everything they do to show proper respect for women,'' he said.
> 
> He said the bottom line was that players, coaches and teams should "take every reasonable and practical step to underline the absolute importance of *treating women with respect*''.




Yeah Right!  Unless they are nightclub strippers.


----------



## Green08 (14 May 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Any man who looks like an old woman with those puff cheeks and baby hair is suss.

But a woman being a woman in her full glory is something to behold. Have to  replace Rudd 08 with a fresh strong face. Early Election Early Election 09 this is the one time I'll pray


----------



## Aussiejeff (14 May 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> *
> PM Rudd wants more footballer respect for women*
> 
> 
> ...




*SHHH!*

[size=-5]Quick, take this Government authorized pill. It will "relax" you. Soon, you won't have any more of these evil fantasies.[/size]


----------



## Conza88 (17 May 2009)

*Rudd's Budget Insanity*


Chris Leithner on 612 ABC Brisbane, 13th May 2009. 

- Government operating on two fallacies
- Two Parties in Australia: Stupid and Evil
- Printing money is madness
- Big picture view of the Budget
- Future Inflation Pressure

​


----------



## pacestick (17 May 2009)

*Re: Rudd's Budget Insanity*

Interesting both comsec and bill evans and westpac like the budget


----------



## MrBurns (17 May 2009)

*Re: Rudd's Budget Insanity*

From his newsletter - 



> 1. Has the All Ordinaries Index “hit bottom”?
> 2. What is its “fair value”?
> 
> I believe neither that it’s hit bottom nor that it’s close to a bottom. The course of its descent to – and the level of – its eventual nadir depend partly upon the extent to which the AOI’s earnings fall; and that, in turn, hinges partly upon the severity of the recession. Earnings peaked in October 2008 at $489, and by March 2009 had shrunk to $365. If they revert to their long-term trend, then ca. 40% of this distance has been traversed. Of course, just as observations “overshoot” above a trend, they can also “undershoot” below it.
> ...


----------



## Glen48 (17 May 2009)

*Re: Rudd's Budget Insanity*

I appear when GM ( Government Motors ) goes under all hell will break loose in USA with thousands going out of work from car yard (2,600 to close this week)to parts suppliers to councils who use to get the stamp duty and rates. then we have Ford line up before Toyota


----------



## dhukka (17 May 2009)

*Re: Rudd's Budget Insanity*

Great Stuff Conza, I'm glad others are tuning in to Chris Leithner, well worth a listen.


----------



## Rainmaker2000 (17 May 2009)

*Re: Rudd's Budget Insanity*

It's funny.......what we hear is the difference between Keynes and the neo-liberals..........only Keynes's name was never mentioned.......the politicians like Keynes cause it justifies spending money when people and the government really shouldn't!!!!!


----------



## GumbyLearner (17 May 2009)

*Re: Rudd's Budget Insanity*

Cheers for the update Conza.

Rudd & Swan's arrogance and indifference towards average people appears to be a problem. While it doesn't seem as obvious as the the arrogance of Howard & Costello it will prove to be an achilles heel if they decide to trigger a double dissolution. This debt is huge!

It baffles me that they can claim this Budget as an economic victory.

They are all elitist buddies deep down on both sides of the house these days IMHO.

Maybe Rudd should have gone out and got his hands dirty like the rest of us, instead of cleaning Laurie Oakes house when a student.  

The ALP is no longer run by the cream of the working class, it is now run by the scum of the middle class.


----------



## Julia (17 May 2009)

*Re: Rudd's Budget Insanity*



GumbyLearner said:


> Maybe Rudd should have gone out and got his hands dirty like the rest of us, instead of cleaning Laurie Oakes house when a student.



Did he really?   That explains a bit about why Oakes is so extraordinarily pro-Labor.

Thanks for drawing attention to Chris Leithner, Conza.  I've liked him and his common sense views for a long time.


----------



## moXJO (18 May 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Wow just when you thought he should be good at something he fails again. Even China is seeing through the spin now.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25497435-5007133,00.html


> *PM not popular in China*
> 
> INTERNATIONAL analysts in China are starting to claim that Beijing is finding it difficult to deal with Kevin Rudd, and the Chinese leadership was more comfortable with John Howard than the current Prime Minister.
> 
> ...




Given his knowledge of China I thought he would excel. He seems to be having trouble seeing things through to the end. And the list is only getting longer.


----------



## Aussiejeff (18 May 2009)

*Re: Rudd's Budget Insanity*



GumbyLearner said:


> Cheers for the update Conza.
> 
> *Rudd & Swan's arrogance and indifference towards average people appears to be a problem. While it doesn't seem as obvious as the the arrogance of Howard & Costello it will prove to be an achilles heel if they decide to trigger a double dissolution. This debt is huge!*
> 
> ...




Latest opinion poll since the Fudget shows Rudd's popularity has suddenly plummeted 10%.

Unfortunately for the opposition, MT's has barely moved.


----------



## Julia (18 May 2009)

*Re: Rudd's Budget Insanity*



Aussiejeff said:


> Latest opinion poll since the Fudget shows Rudd's popularity has suddenly plummeted 10%.
> 
> Unfortunately for the opposition, MT's has barely moved.



AJ was the poll taken before or after Malcolm Turnbull's Reply to Budget?
It was quite good.
Nice to see the government taking a bit of a fall anyway.


----------



## Happy (18 May 2009)

*Re: Rudd's Budget Insanity*



Julia said:


> AJ was the poll taken before or after Malcolm Turnbull's Reply to Budget?
> It was quite good.
> Nice to see the government taking a bit of a fall anyway.





Drop was not significant, probably smokers are Labor supporters.


----------



## Happy (18 May 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



> From ABC 18 May 2009
> RUDD PLANS 'WORLD'S LARGEST' SOLAR PROJECT
> 
> 
> ...





Another grand stand and possibly good excuse for few trips, not to mention opportunity to bump up the price of electricity.


----------



## noco (18 May 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Rudd and his lame DUCK (Swan) are both living in a glass house where all can see what they are doing.
China, together with most sane Australians are wide awake and looking in together at what they are up to, and   today's poll proves just that!
Even the GREENS support for Labor looks a bit shakey.
They keep coming up with "HAIR BRAIN" FANTASIES which they know cannot be achieved.
 With each new FANTASY, which tends to  makes them look good, is implimented  in a way to take your mind off the previous one.   
Bring on a double disolution.
The problem is the hard core Labor supporters will still have their dark glasses on whenever that may be.


----------



## doogie_goes_off (18 May 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I thought the Kruddster thread would die down between elections but basically it looks like KRUDD always rises to the top. Measured budget but pathetic vision, lack of confidence is high.


----------



## Julia (18 May 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noco said:


> Bring on a double disolution.
> The problem is the hard core Labor supporters will still have their dark glasses on whenever that may be.



No, we don't want a double dissolution at this stage.  Rudd is still riding on the popularity of the hand outs.  It will take longer for unemployment to rise, and the reality of the deficit to take the place in Labor voters' minds of the free money they've received.

If a double dissolution were to be held in the immediate future, Labor would win.  That would mean they have another three years in power.

The Libs need to make more of how an ETS will devastate business, and push up prices of everything for the ordinary Australian.   This is a fairly fine line, however, as they can't afford to upset the climate change believers, though I guess they will largely be Labor voters anyway.


----------



## Bobby (18 May 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Green08 said:


> Any man who looks like an old woman with those puff cheeks and baby hair is suss.
> 
> But a woman being a woman in her full glory is something to behold. Have to  replace Rudd 08 with a fresh strong face. Early Election Early Election 09 this is the one time I'll pray




Got me in Green , kinda like your direction please add more


----------



## Calliope (19 May 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

You would have to have confidence in a prime minister who says;

*



			"You know something, I have a great affection for our friends in New South Wales, because we share the same religion, and that's called rugby league," he said.
		
Click to expand...


*


----------



## Calliope (19 May 2009)

*Re: Rudd's Budget Insanity*

Mr Rudd says he stands by the "tough budget decisions" despite a hit in the popularity polls.

What tough decisions?:dunno:


----------



## MrBurns (19 May 2009)

*Re: Rudd's Budget Insanity*



Calliope said:


> Mr Rudd says he stands by the "tough budget decisions" despite a hit in the popularity polls.
> 
> What tough decisions?:dunno:




He's a complete tosser, even when his popularity wanes he puts spin on it, "it's because of the tough decisions" oh yeah like mailing everyone a grand ???????


----------



## Happy (19 May 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



> From ABC, Posted Mon May 18, 2009 6:46pm AEST
> 
> 'PM'S PUBLICITY THE PRIORITY' IN SCHOOL SHUFFLE
> 
> ...




Amazing, but it looks like publicity is more important than substance for our PM.


----------



## MrBurns (19 May 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Happy said:


> Amazing, but it looks like publicity is more important than substance for our PM.




REALLY ? I never would have guessed


----------



## moXJO (19 May 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

No doubt about it, our PM is an attention wh0re


----------



## Quincy (19 May 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Prime Minister Kevin *DUDD*


----------



## Calliope (21 May 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Mr Rudd may look like a dorky boofhead, but I have been assured that he is very intelligent.  Why then does he persist in the nonsense idea that we will ever be able to produce affordable and reliable energy from wind or solar power. 



> while touring a coal/solar power station in the Hunter Valley in NSW, the Prime Minister said the Government intended to build the biggest solar generation plant in the world




I am not knocking solar energy. It can be very handy when it is free. I do my bit. I have a solar powered clothes dryer. It hasn't worked too well the last few days (we have had 500ml of rain) but I can wait.


----------



## bunyip (22 May 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

*The following was sent to me by a friend. His words, not mine, although I pretty much agree with most of it.*


    My father used to harp to us kids the importance of common sense.  He called it CS.  

 I have tried to use CS to clearly see what is happening to us under the present Rudd regime.



   As I see it, the following are truisms:



*   During the election campaign Rudd described himself as a “fiscal conservative” 

 He then inherited a surplus of $23 Billion from Howard & Coy.

   In 18 months that surplus has become a $33Billion Deficit !    He makes Whitlam look an amateur.



*   Besides his expensive initial election promises his spending plans now seem to be often made up on the run.  To date few, if any, are properly costed and no cost/benefit analysis has been done. His second budget just presented is very controversial.



*  ETS.  Unlike many earth scientists he is convinced the planet is heading for catastrophe and has beefed up hysteria about human induced global warming.  He is sure that CO2 emissions are the reason and intends to make Australia an example to the rest of the world in spite of it causing extreme financial damage to our economy.  He ignores the miniscule impact Australia could produce even if his beliefs were partially correct.  He has commissioned a close friend and co- believer Garnaut to produce a supporting report and recommendations. Most  respected earth scientists call it rubbish.  (incl Prof.  Plimer)

  The legislation now before the parliament lacks in factual detail.



*  GFC  Global Financial Crisis.  Thanks to Greenspan the US markets have been allowed to work unregulated. Thanks to derivatives and marketing of dangerous debt packages designed by financial engineers  and unwise lending to inadequate borrowers, the US has fallen into a financial crisis. It is so huge (multi trillions) that other countries are caught up also. UK, Europe, Russia and even mighty China  is feeling the effects. Banks are withholding loans and global trade is effected.

   Australia has been better managed but as an exporter of commodities we also suffer  when our customers don’t buy.



   The solution most countries have adopted is to throw enormous sums of money around.

The US has put their printing presses into overdrive to print US$ like has never happened before.  This MUST devalue the US$ but that result is yet to emerge in a significant way.

   Rudd & coy are following suit in a way that (in my opinion) is not so necessary and which also lacks quality selections.  They call it a “stimulus package” but already they have demonstrated ineptness.    An example was 

$20 Billions of borrowed money sent to millions of Australians in $900 handouts in an effort to get people spending. More than half was saved in bank accounts for a rainy day and a large proportion was spent on goods imported from overseas.  It did little for jobs creation.



*  When Rudd was elected,  the trade union votes demanded a quid pro quo. The quid was in the form of putting ex trade union officials into ministerial positions.  We now have a government heavily stacked with union heavies.  

The deputy Prime Minister madame Gillard has now thrown out the very successful and proven work contract system created by Howard and has replaced it with the one that the Unions want. 

The present government is very light on for well educated professionals- lawyers, bankers, business managers etc



*  Another recent surprise announcement has been the hugely expensive ($43 Billion & still counting) high speed broadband offering 100 Mbps through fibre optics right to the home.   Great – if only it didn’t cost so much!   It will make downloading movies so much faster but what productivity profits will it generate ? 

   Note that the $43 B cost is a figure out of the air so far – it hasn’t yet been costed and probably will cost multiples of that eventually if and when it comes to fruition.  Rudd &coy apparently don’t want to consider an alternative  system which is not quite so good but at a fraction of the cost.



*  Rudd is hoping his stimulus package will result in  jobs creation. Opposition leader Turnbull is correct when he says it’s the small businesses that should be stimulated not the large organizations. Those organisations will largely have to wait until global trade picks up. Small businesses are the engine room of jobs. Think the success of Taiwan.



*  Infrastructure.  Rudd believes now is the time to borrow huge sums to be spent on large scale infrastructure. With a couple of exceptions he again is misguided.  Now is NOT the time to cripple the economy with debt that will take decades to pay off.

 It took 10 years to clear the last Labor debt of $96 Billion. How long to recover from the $190 Billion as it presently stands. ?  



   However, it is a shocking indictment to have hundreds of huge bulk carrier ships queued offshore at anchor waiting for a turn to load our export cargoes.  Hence expenditure on port and   loading facilities and rail can be justified.  Noting that it will take a couple of years minimum to so construct these projects but they will then produce a return on capital invested. This is unlike other  less wise expensive capital works viz building better access roads, tunnels etc. These will get you to work  quicker but where is the bang for the buck?    Now is not the time for such expenditure.



*   Defence.   Huge cost but little actual benefit. (??)  We presently have half our submarine fleet out of action because of lack of crews !  

  We have to ask ourselves can we really afford to have capital vessels and the very best aircraft for defence of Australia ?   I really don’t know the answer to this one and can only hope that the actual payments are so far in the future that we will have had a chance to first repay the enormous debts this government if forcing on us.









So what about these deficits and borrowings. ?



A loan is a loan whether it be a family house loan or a national loan. It must be paid back.

 The question then is what can be afforded?   

One of the main reasons for the present global crisis is that lending institutions supplied loans to people who had no hope of servicing the loan.  The irony is that the defaults have resulted in a dearth of money supply as lenders became over cautious and restricted supply.



Can Australia afford the huge borrowed amounts being mooted ?  

Rudd says Treasury says it can !  How?  Because  Treasury predicts that our growth will be positive in 2 years and after that we will be going gangbusters again for at least 6 years ( maybe 20 years) at what we were doing in the boom times. That is over 4.5%. per year 



  Do I buy this ?    No bloody way !

As Terry McCrann says Treasury have not got it right once this century – so why should they suddenly be believed now ?  

Even the Wall St. Journal has stated the Rudd/Swann/Treasury ideas are flawed.



  Consider this. 

 The US is in DEEP trouble – not by Billions but multi TRILLIONS! 

Already we are seeing very large corporations going bankrupt. Think General Motors and all the associated firms that depend on the big milk cow. 

   ( It is not confined to the vehicle industry by the way.)

  As already mentioned the flow on effects round the world will make recoveries drawn out and Australia cannot expect to sail on blissfully independent of our trading customers as Rudd, Swann, and Treasury’s Ken Henry would have us believe. 



         That is my assessment anyhow. – its plain CS.  

    If this is even more or less correct then the sooner we get a change of government the better for all of us. 

 Every time we have a Labor government we go into debt in a big way.  Goodness knows whatever more brain waves are still to come from the man who speaks Chinese !   (I read somewhere that Rudd’s words appeal to the Chinese  but they are not convinced of his sincerity and can be trusted.)



“Rudd’s chaotic and unpredictable leadership and his obsession with political spin” is how economic editor Alan Wood puts it, including Rudd’s determination to impose a flawed Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) on Australia.



Do you believe the Treasury forecasts in the light of the world economy being weaker for longer?   Do you believe Rudd’s commitment to, keep their spending below 2% per year ?

    Well I don’t.      Is your CS the same as mine?.



               God save the Queen AND Australia   (while we’ve got this mob!)


----------



## rhen (23 May 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Commsec Market Bulletin identifies a problem:

1.
_Point of view:
Budget deficit spoils confidence
The sharp improvement in consumer sentiment noted last month
has fast been eroded. The continued talk of a horror budget,
record budget deficit and rather pessimistic views on the
Australian economy by officials in the lead up to the budget has
created a toxic cocktail of negative sentiment over the last few
weeks._

2.
I know of at least one $9C cheque posted to Singapore to one of their temporary students visiting our Country. Mr Rudd is certainly globally "visioned", though many may have a better description of this act.


ps. I believe Bunyip's mate's comments below are well-worth the read.


----------



## catman (23 May 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

K Rudd inspires me to quit my job and join the dole.


----------



## moXJO (23 May 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Oh goody... I am hoping it won't be a return to the bad old days. But the unions still smell the same as they always did. Hearing more and more stories lately and it was one of my fears of having a labor govt.
If they stuck with the big guys fair enough. But the power soon goes to their fat heads and the rest of the business community pays as well. Business confidence will get a shake if the govt doesn't get a handle on this fast

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,25380009-2862,00.html



> UNION thugs threatened a VicRoads supervisor when they attacked his home and hurled a brick through a window with a menacing note.
> 
> The thugs also allegedly slashed his car's tyres, cut off the electricity to his home and used a hack sawed through his water valve in a violent show of intimidation .
> 
> It's also been claimed the unions have employed bikie gangs as muscle for their stand-over tactics.


----------



## Calliope (23 May 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Confidence in  Rudd and Swan. I'm afraid not. They both make my skin crawl.

Annabel Crabbe in the SMH today


> But I don't know if I've ever seen anything so awfully, skin-crawlingly, knuckle-bitingly embarrassing as the Prime Minister and Treasurer this week, struggling to avoid voicing the exact dollar figure of Australia's expected degree of public debt in years to come.
> 
> Through splayed fingers, I watched the PM on Lateline on Monday night, asked by Tony Jones to name the dollar peak debt figure.
> 
> "Well, let me step back in terms of the elements of this," Rudd fudged.







> And Wayne Swan, with all the devotion of a current Madonna toyboy, did exactly the same thing in Adelaide on Wednesday.
> 
> "Thirteen point eight per cent of GDP is the net debt," he said when asked.
> 
> ...


----------



## Julia (23 May 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Confidence in  Rudd and Swan. I'm afraid not. They both make my skin crawl.
> 
> Annabel Crabbe in the SMH today



Annabel has a good turn of phrase and appropriately sums up the disgust generated by these two.  

But sadly I expect the masses who would just be focused on their $900 cheques would be unlikely to read such criticism as Ms Crabbe so fluently pens.


----------



## bunyip (23 May 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> Annabel has a good turn of phrase and appropriately sums up the disgust generated by these two.
> 
> But sadly I expect the masses who would just be focused on their $900 cheques would be unlikely to read such criticism as Ms Crabbe so fluently pens.




What ticks me off is the people who voted these clowns in - some of whom are now criticising them. This includes a relative of mine who reckoned Rudd was the best thing since canned beer. Now she admits she made a mistake in voting for him.

The Howard/Costello government had the economy on a sound footing after lifting it out of the mire created by years of Hawke/Keating incompetence. Then what happens - the masses stupidly turn against them and replace them with this current rabble of mostly union spivs and a gawky goofy rock singer. Bloody unbelievable.


----------



## CanOz (23 May 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



bunyip said:


> What ticks me off is the people who voted these clowns in - some of whom are now criticising them. This includes a relative of mine who reckoned Rudd was the best thing since canned beer. Now she admits she made a mistake in voting for him.
> 
> The Howard/Costello government had the economy on a sound footing after lifting it out of the mire created by years of Hawke/Keating incompetence. Then what happens - the masses stupidly turn against them and replace them with this current rabble of mostly union spivs and a gawky goofy rock singer. Bloody unbelievable.




LOL! Very funny.

I would never vote labor even if i could vote in Oz, but i still gotta wonder how the Libs would have handled this crisis. I suspect there would have been more of a business focus though, maybe more on infrastructure. To be honest I'm not sure the Labor party has the political balls to do anything innovative here.

Singapore is doing some really innovative things though, like encouraging business's not to layoff employees by giveing them a tax break to keep them on. Plus lots of infrastructure projects....which can never amount to too much, given the country is basically a big city. - love the place though....they reckon it could become the "Switzerland of Asia" one day.

Cheers,


CanOz


----------



## rhen (26 May 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Mr Gottliebsen appears to me, at least, to be unequivocal in his stance with respect to the title of our thread at this point in time:

http://www.businessspectator.com.au...pineless-nation-pd20090525-SCRHQ?OpenDocument
Commentary
6:55 AM, 25 May 2009   
Robert Gottliebsen
*Creating a spineless nation* 
Over the weekend I was contacted by a medium-sized business operator who is worried. He voted for Labor because of the excitement Kevin Rudd delivered at the time and because of the divisions at the top of the Liberal Party.

Like everyone else he has been hit by the global financial crisis and the value of his business has been slashed. However, he still enjoys a good salary and has been saving via superannuation. What’s now really concerning him is the subtle attack, currently gaining momentum in Canberra, on entrepreneurship and those who have really worked to put money away for retirement. 

Many of the attacks are being justified as an 'end of middle-class welfare' but to the man I spoke with they are a concerted attack on the backbone of our community – entrepreneurs and those that have worked very hard. Some of the measures come from the Ken Henry tax review, but they all attack the same group of people. Here is this particular businessman's list of concerns: 

– The first concern he mentions is a surprise – the increase in the pension age. It's not that he plans to go onto the pension, but that move is signalling to him that he will need to keep older workers on longer. Longer serving workers can be very expensive given their long service leave and other accrued benefits. Even more significantly, it will trigger a volley of nasties for the self-funded retirees. He has been saving vigorously to be self-funded. 

– The first spin-off is the Henry recommendation to lift the super vesting age from 60 to 67 in line with pension age. A great many people have poured money into superannuation on the basis of the Costello rules. A savage rise in the vesting age would be *an enormous attack on the baby boomers*. 

– Then there's the Henry recommendation to tax super earnings for those who have taken a transition to the pension (ie, over 55) . Again it’s those who have saved for their retirement on one set of rules only to find them changed – and those who are still saving will be further in the gun.

– There's also the possible changes to dividend imputation. It’s not likely to happen, but it’s on the list. That would savage the stock market. 

– The new tax on employee share schemes is really bad for SMEs. It may be amended, but the fact that it was tried showed that there is no sympathy or understanding in Canberra for the small enterprise movement.

– The next complaint concerns the new Gillard IR laws on small business led by the so-called 'award modernisation'. That’s a total nightmare. Much shift work, which is so important to productivity, will be the subject of high penalty rates. 

– Next is the tax office crack-down on trusts. Trusts are a widely used structure for smaller and medium businesses. 

These concerns, then, make up the core of my businessman's list of worries, but there are also a few more obtuse items which are concerning him. 

– Uncertainty over the government battle with Telstra (most DIY super funds hold Telstra stock). 

– Big pressure on the RBA to further cut rates (thereby reducing DIY superannuation interest income) to try and deliver Swan’s high economic growth forecasts. In theory this would help his business, but rate reductions are rarely passed on to business. All the government pressure is on mortgage rates, not business lending rates. 

If the government actually follows through and implements all those recommendations, and Malcolm Turnbull is good enough, then the list has the potential to put Turnbull in office. 

It would certainly put Peter Costello in office.


----------



## Julia (26 May 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Thanks for posting Robert Gottliebson's piece, Rhen.   His usual succinct style gets to the point.

But isn't the businessman in question perhaps a bit unusual in having voted Labor?   Wouldn't his natural fit be to vote Liberal?

Obviously, what I'm getting at is that the government are essentially trying to shore up their natural voting base, and probably acknowledge that in so doing they will further alienate those who on the whole wouldn't have voted for them anyway.

The Libs need to be much more vocal than they are being at present to drive home the very points made by the businessman in the article.
As Mr Gottleibson has suggested, Costello would certainly be doing this.


----------



## Calliope (26 May 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I don't think Rudd was being racist when his parting shot at Trujillo was one word... "adios". It was just his way of saying good riddance under the guise of being funny. Some people can disguise nastiness with humour, but Rudd is so completely devoid of humour that it always falls flat.


----------



## rhen (1 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

An email received today...


Walking Eagle

On a recent trip to the U.S.A. Prime Minister Kevin Rudd was invited to address a major gathering of the American Indian Nations in Kitimat, B.C. due to his experiences in handling the Indigineous situation in Australia.
He spoke for almost an hour on his ideas for increasing every First Nation's present standard of living.
At the conclusion of his speech, the tribes presented the Prime Minister with a plaque inscribed with his new Indian name - Walking Eagle.
The proud Rudd then departed with his entourage, waving to the crowd as he left.

A news reporter later asked the chiefs how they came to select the new name given to Rudd. 
They explained that Walking Eagle is the name given to a bird so full of ****, it can no longer fly.


----------



## pilots (1 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

What I am worried about is do the Libs want to get back in, how in heavens name can they get us out of the mess Krudd has us in. This will be the LAST time you will ever see Labor in power in Australia for a VERY long time.
Just think what it would be like in question time, Sir the last two times Labor was in power the country was in so much debt it took the Libs xxx years to pay it off, you want to do that all over again


----------



## Calliope (1 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



pilots said:


> What I am worried about is do the Libs want to get back in




If they give Rudd the grounds for a double dissolution they will not only lose the election they will lose the senate which will give Rudd unfettered power to destroy the country in his own way.

The same fan club that holds Rudd in such high esteem in the popularity polls is the same majority that will vote for the Rudd/Wong ETS, without having a clue what it is all about.

But, to achieve this he has to go to the polls early before the full economic rot sets in, and fight the election on the ETS.


----------



## Julia (1 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> If they give Rudd the grounds for a double dissolution they will not only lose the election they will lose the senate which will give Rudd unfettered power to destroy the country in his own way.
> 
> The same fan club that holds Rudd in such high esteem in the popularity polls is the same majority that will vote for the Rudd/Wong ETS, without having a clue what it is all about.
> 
> But, to achieve this he has to go to the polls early before the full economic rot sets in, and fight the election on the ETS.



Exactly.   I suppose the Libs know this and will negotiate on the ETS?
The latest poll shows the government and Rudd in particular still way up there in the minds of the electorate at large.     Turnbull was perceived as "arrogant".


----------



## jono1887 (2 June 2009)

*Rudd's Crisis Centre Bunker*

In the budget, Rudd ordered a $38M bunker to be built under parliament house for 'improved communications' during a crisis. what do you guys think?


----------



## investorpaul (2 June 2009)

*Re: Rudd's Crisis Centre Bunker*

maybe hes scared of the north koreans lol


----------



## Largesse (2 June 2009)

*Re: Rudd's Crisis Centre Bunker*

Hilter had a bunker.
Stalin had a bunker.
Mao had a bunker.
Now Ruddy has a bunker.


----------



## jono1887 (2 June 2009)

*Re: Rudd's Crisis Centre Bunker*



Largesse said:


> Hilter had a bunker.
> Stalin had a bunker.
> Mao had a bunker.
> Now Ruddy has a bunker.




Obama has many bunkers
The Queen of England has a bunker
Gordon Brown has a bunker

whats your point?


----------



## saiter (2 June 2009)

*Re: Rudd's Crisis Centre Bunker*

I see where this is going...


----------



## Largesse (2 June 2009)

*Re: Rudd's Crisis Centre Bunker*



jono1887 said:


> Obama has many bunkers
> The Queen of England has a bunker
> Gordon Brown has a bunker
> 
> whats your point?




I wonder if Gordon claims living away from home allowance on his bunker?


----------



## HC Victim (2 June 2009)

*Re: Rudd's Crisis Centre Bunker*

Doesn't this tickle your 'this seems a little suss' button in the back of your mind?


----------



## jono1887 (2 June 2009)

*Re: Rudd's Crisis Centre Bunker*



HC Victim said:


> Doesn't this tickle your 'this seems a little suss' button in the back of your mind?




hmm... is he planning for war perhaps??


----------



## moXJO (2 June 2009)

*Re: Rudd's Crisis Centre Bunker*



jono1887 said:


> hmm... is he planning for war perhaps??




No... angry tax payers


----------



## skyQuake (2 June 2009)

*Re: Rudd's Crisis Centre Bunker*



saiter said:


> I see where this is going...




Heck if they put this up at the next election, i'm sure most people will vote for him out of sheer respect for his kudos


----------



## Conza88 (3 June 2009)

*Re: Rudd's Crisis Centre Bunker*



jono1887 said:


> Obama has many bunkers
> The Queen of England has a bunker
> Gordon Brown has a bunker
> 
> whats your point?




Yeah repeated yourself..


----------



## pacestick (3 June 2009)

*Re: Rudd's Crisis Centre Bunker*

You mean they built parliament house without a bunker who was the idiot who did that.It has been standard practice since churchill in battle of Britain. I suspect it was Hawke  maybe he could sell off his investments in myamar to compensate the taxpayer for his lack of foresight


----------



## kincella (4 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Fitzgibbon quits...and so he should...just wondering how many would quit....if we had an investigation like they currently have in the UK ?
Worts and all...or Rorts and all
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25586131-29277,00.html


----------



## kincella (4 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I only heard the end of Paul Bongoirno..political reporter for ch10 tonight...saying PM Rudd would have to step down.....??? wonder what that was about...

Kevin Rudd denies he did favours for free car

AAP
June 04, 2009 05:06pm
PRIME Minister Kevin Rudd says neither he nor his office have made representations in relation to the OZ Car scheme on behalf of a car dealership that gave him a free vehicle. 
Brisbane car dealer John Grant Motors has given the prime minister a free car, including registration and insurance.

Mr Rudd said that while he accepted the car from John Grant, which he uses in his electorate, he had not made representations on behalf of the car dealer in relation to the Oz Car scheme.

"In relation to this individual and the contribution of a motor vehicle to my local electorate, that was fully declared," he said.

The OZ Car scheme, a debt facility, was announced in December to support dealerships under threat of losing financing through the withdrawal of financiers GE and GMAC from the Australian market.

Treasurer Wayne Swan said his office had referred John Grant to the Treasury-run program
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25586884-29277,00.html


----------



## kincella (5 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

pm and utegate is turning interesting 
some political commentators are calling it tail gate...
bbc radio this morning said Swan saying in parliament yesterday that there were thousands of calls regarding OZCAR...it turns out there were only 3 and 2 of them were from Grant..funny about that...more to come...

and its beginning to sound like lies.....both from swan and the PM statement below......guess we will find out more between now and next time parliament sits again..............

Mr Rudd told parliament today that neither he nor his office had made representations on behalf of John Grant Motors about OzCar. 
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25590269-421,00.html


----------



## kincella (6 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

apparently Andrew Bolt cannot be bought, or silenced like the rest of the media...and the utegate affair is tiny compared to the all the other things that have been going on......but then again I was not aware of Bolt until late last year...maybe he said similar things about Howard.....

the extract.................

Given also Rudd’s damning of artist Bill Henson, his blocking of the promotion of Hugh Borrowman, his astonishing and deceptive spinning, his personal intervention in arts prizes, the increased sidelining of dissent, the political stacking of the ABC board, the deliberate creation of group think, and the co-opting of media bosses and leading journalists in the Rudd agenda, would Marr once more conclude (and I’ve changed just two words): 


Since 2007, Rudd has cowed his critics, muffled the press, intimidated the ABC, gagged scientists, silenced non-government organisations, neutered Canberra’s mandarins, curtailed parliamentary scrutiny, censored the arts, banned books, criminalised protest and prosecuted whistleblowers.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/


----------



## Julia (6 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



kincella said:


> apparently Andrew Bolt cannot be bought, or silenced like the rest of the media...and the utegate affair is tiny compared to the all the other things that have been going on......but then again I was not aware of Bolt until late last year...maybe he said similar things about Howard.....



No, he didn't say similar things about Howard.  Bolt is probably the journalist most to the right, bar perhaps Piers Akerman.
But yes, I'd be surprised if he could be bought or silenced.  

This car thing so far sounds to me like the Libs clutching at anything they can to try to divert attention from the good news for the government on the GDP figures earlier this week.  Rudd has declared the vehicle on the pecuniary interest register, so unless the Libs have something substantially greater to reveal, they should shut up or look pathetic.

And they'll find it difficult to be negative about the appointment of Faulkner to the Defence portfolio.   Very experienced, very capable politician.


----------



## kincella (6 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Julia...I saw Swan in parliament saying there were thousands of calls to his office about OZCAR...was he supposed to check everyone of them......then in a senate committee meeting..he was forced to discloise the truth...only 3 calls or inquiries made and two of them were from.....drumroll...John Grant...

so here we have the treasurer telling huge lies....

what some are failing to understand here....the PM has no need for an old ute....he has everything he needs at his disposal....they are neighbours and good friends....if you are supposed to be transparent and above board...while leave something as silly as an old ute out there...

oh the libs will have more when parliament sits again....


----------



## Calliope (6 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



kincella said:


> apparently Andrew Bolt cannot be bought, or silenced like the rest of the media...and the utegate affair is tiny compared to the all the other things.
> 
> 
> Since 2007, Rudd has cowed his critics, muffled the press, intimidated the ABC, gagged scientists, silenced non-government organisations, neutered Canberra’s mandarins, curtailed parliamentary scrutiny, censored the arts, banned books, criminalised protest and prosecuted whistleblowers.




I have always thought that Bolt was a bit over the top, but, someone once said;

"There is no stronger bond of friendship than a mutual enemy."

Now my opinion of Kevin Rudd and David Marr is that they are nasty pieces of work.

So, in this context I guess Andrew Bolt is OK.


----------



## kincella (6 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

maybe its only some of us who woke up to this a long time ago....
absolutley no reporter saying anything against rudd and his team of misfits...
so I have given up reading or listening to any of them.....ie the reporters or the labor party.....luckily its different in the states...where information flows into the public view....
note an article today about Bligh....keeping kids in a tent etc....
................................................................... 
Rise of Rudd's sentinels of spin
Team Rudd is about disguising the leader's weaknesses, including a short temper and a certain lack of spontaneity, says Gazard. "He doesn't perform well when he's under pressure, and he's not particularly strong at thinking on his feet. By contrast, John Howard really enjoyed the likes of Kerry O'Brien and Laurie Oakes; he enjoyed the conflict and didn't shy away from a tough interview
Twenty months after Kevin '07 swept to victory, the PM's burgeoning media machine has become so practised at controlling his image and massaging his message that some political analysts liken it to a PR state, one exceeding the sheen of former prime minister John Howard, whose renowned National Media Liaison Service (nicknamed aNiMaLS) set a new benchmark in spin. While ostensibly serving as a liaison between the press and the Prime Minister, Rudd's media advisers serve one principal function: to boost their boss's image, say observers. 

"He (Rudd) is a micro-manager, he doesn't know when to stop, and that flows through to everything he does, including trying to control the media," says one member of the press gallery. 

Largely invisible to the public, the Rudd Government's growing force of press secretaries, media advisers and consultants is nearly double the number employed during the Hawke and Keating eras. 

After initially vowing to slash ministerial head counts, including media, across all departments, the Rudd Government employs 40 communications staff in the Department of Agriculture, 30 in the Department of Innovation, 23 in the Department of the Environment and six in the PM's office. Communications spending on consultants is also rising. The departments of immigration, broadband and innovation forked out $7.4 million for public relations experts in 12 months. 

Yet figures alone can't convey how the media machine is controlling the day-to-day discharge of information. Gallery journalists describe how Maria Hawthorne, a media adviser in the Prime Minister's office, prowls the gallery each day unashamedly asking journos: "What are you writing?" 

"It's very obvious what the strategy is," observes one member of the press gallery. "Get an image for the nightly news for people who don't follow politics - an image that makes the Government look like it's frenetically trying to help people through the economic crisis - and then make life as hard as possible for journalists who try to analyse the Government." 

It's probably a measure of how tightly controlled the Rudd machine is that few journalists in the press gallery are willing to go on the record on the subject, afraid of alienating hard-earned contacts. Explains one reporter: "Our job is hard enough now, without making life even more difficult for ourselves." Says Ian Smith, a Liberal Party consultant who worked on the Telstra sales of T1, T2 and T3, now a principal with consultancy Bespoke Approach: "Part of the Rudd Government's success has been the ability to cut out the press gallery and undermine its influence by managing the media flow beyond. Why deal with the media who ask the informed questions if you don't need to do so?" 

Central control of media inquiries has become the cornerstone of the Government's strategy, say observers. All press releases and media, including even those by the CSIRO, are first to be approved by the PM's office. Complains one member of the press gallery: "Senior public servants are now saying, 'Sorry, I just can't talk to you. I could be prosecuted.' The traditional sources of information have dried up." 


http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25593811-5013871,00.html


----------



## kincella (12 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

something almost insane going on here..... I have never heard anyone talk like this, except in low grade aussie movies about the outback......or when the tourism industry sewlling rubbish to overseas...with the stupied ocker stuff...
ps I thought we had a thread headed Political ?? I coiuld not find it today 
and how do I put a poster on ignore

Column - Are any of these Kevins real?
 36 Comments | 0 Trackbacks | Permalink Andrew Bolt Blog    
Andrew Bolt
Friday, June 12, 2009 at 12:41am  


STREWTH! There is now a Kevin Rudd for every occasion, and the only version of the Prime Minister that’s missing is one that’s real. 

Here’s Kevvie Rudd, the voters’ mate, talking this week on Sky News like he saw mates do on some old Barry Mackenzie film: 

“Fair shake of the sauce bottle, mate . . . It’s chalk and cheese . . . Fair shake of the sauce bottle, mate . . . Well, again, fair shake of the sauce bottle, mate.” 

Here, now, is Corporal Rudd, the soldiers’ buddy, talking to troops in Afghanistan last December like he imagines a soldier would: 



“You really know your s--- . . . Bugger that for a joke . . . We know what’s goin’ on . . . Genuinely s--- weather . . . I’ve been to too many funerals . . . “ 

But here is Herr Professor Rudd, the bureaucrat’s bureaucrat, talking to political eggheads in Brussels the way he rather fancies they admire (and please take a deep breath before reading the next two sentences):  


“What you saw even prior to the end of the Cold War here, of course, was the evolution of a series of confidence and security-building measures coming off the back of CSCE, OSCE and the Helsinki accords. There has to be a greater synergy between, let’s call it our policy leadership in this, which has been focused so much, legitimately, on targets and global architecture, almost reverse-engineered back to the means by which you can quickly deliver outcomes, and on the demand side in our economy we’re looking at potential advances in terms of 20 to 25 per cent range if you do this across the board.” 

Then there’s Preacher Rudd, denouncing the sinful in sanctimonious tones he’s picked up from priests of the more thunderous kind, thinking the same language might well impress a voting audience of the righteous: 


“I can describe (Gordon Ramsay’s) remarks as reflecting a new form of low life . . . These guys (The Chaser), collectively, should get up and hang their heads in shame . . . . I find (union boss Dean) Mighell’s remarks to be obscene at every level . . . I find (artist Bill Henson’s pictures) absolutely revolting . . . “ 

And then there’s Fuhrer Rudd, who talks to staff as he imagines a great f---ing Labor leader must, telling even a RAAF stewardess who brings him a cold meal . . . Well, let’s keep it clean, shall we? 

Let us just say that it’s amazing, what a chameleon the Prime Minister is. Truly, he is the Zelig of Australian politics. 

This trait of his goes far beyond just stuffing his every public statement with phrases invented by his young spinners and pretested on some focus group, in the hope of telling voters exactly what they most like hearing: 

“We are being decisive . . . responsible, clear, consultative . . . it’s difficult, it’s hard, it’s complex . . . We can either stand back and do nothing or, as governments, we can act . . . “ 

Rudd’s chameleon act actually involves a much deeper ingratiation with his audience. He changes not just his message, but his tone, his colloquialisms and even his accent. 

Good God, he’s even known to have changed his faith. In short order, he’s switched from a professed “Christian socialist” to “not a socialist” to a “fiscal conservative” to a “social democrat”, changing colour - pink-blue-bluer-pink - to suit whatever you think you’d like best, given the change in the economic weather. 

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...comments/column_are_any_of_these_kevins_real/


----------



## MrBurns (12 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Rudd is being tolerated because he's giving money away as soon as that stops the Aussie in everyone will tell this self centered little faggot to f#$k off.

Rudd is the nerdy school boy who never fitted in, if he had any friends they were bought ...........the same as now.

How he ever got to be PM is beyond me.


----------



## MrBurns (12 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

More from the tossers staff - from Crikey tips and rumours section



> Fun and games on a plane: The PM’s staff have regular tussles with the RAAF cabin crew on VIP flights over prohibitions on the use of mobile phones, blackberries and laptops. The issue is that the PM’s super-keen staffers like to fire up their gadgets while aircraft are still in the air, sometimes as they are making their final approaches. This has resulted in less-than pleasant stand-offs, with at least one instance of a cabin crew member seizing a laptop, only to have it snatched back by a staffer.


----------



## kincella (13 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

finally another reporter is wondering who is kevin rudd ???? and I have to wonder is it a multiple personality being played out now.....

*Just who in heaven's name is Kevin Rudd?*
Tony Wright 
June 13, 2009 
THE day after Kevin Rudd was elected Prime Minister in November 2007, he fronted a media conference on the banks of the Brisbane River.

The gathered hacks were a bit fidgety, because the much-anticipated arrival of the new Prime Minister had been postponed and rearranged and postponed again as the hours ticked towards deadline.

Still, most of us were content to cut Kevin some slack. Treasury officials had flown in to open the books to the new chief and, anyway, the poor fellow was probably pretty close to exhaustion after the long election campaign.

It was only when the PM opened his mouth that reporters, most of whom had been trailing him around for months, began to exhibit bewilderment.

Here was a Kevin Rudd who bore no relationship to the breezy, ever-chuckling Kevin of the election campaign.

Here was a stranger, this correspondent wrote at the time, "offhand, almost disengaged, not a smile to be had. There was a cold purpose to him".

Indeed, he gave nothing more than a short, clinical statement about his immediate plans to implement his agenda of better hospitals, an education revolution, faster broadband and the rest, and noted he'd spoken by phone to the leaders of the US, Britain and Indonesia.

And then, after 13 minutes of answering questions ”” five in all 

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/just-who-in-heavens-name-is-kevin-rudd-20090612-c60a.html?page=-1 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Journalists now search for the real Rudd*
26 Comments | 0 Trackbacks | Permalink Andrew Bolt Blog 
Andrew Bolt
Saturday, June 13, 2009 at 10:51am 
extracts.......only here......
Now even The Age’s Tony Wright, like me, can’t tell if a real Kevin Rudd even exists:

Annabel Crabb thinks the ocker Rudd isn’t the real one, and wonders why Rudd is so scared of showing us the real one:: 

Guess which one reporter still claims that Rudd’s ocker-speak is natural? 

It’s easy to forget that while Rudd might be a university-educated ex-diplomat, he spent his childhood on a Queensland dairy farm. And, stone the crows, every afternoon his family listened to Dad and Dave on the radio. 

It’s the same reporter who passes on as his own work a line that sounds like it was manufactured by Rudd’s paid spinners: 

Yes, you got it. We’re talking about the very same journalist who also claimed that Rudd’s refusal to say his debt would rise to $300 billion was not spin, but just Treasury speak, and that Treasurer Wayne Swan’s refusal to give the deficit figure in his his Budget speech (or subsequent interviews) was a mere oversight. 


http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...ts_now_search_for_the_real_rudd/#commentsmore


----------



## MrBurns (13 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Maybe he's going mad.
That means Julia Gillard would take over, think about it.


----------



## gav (13 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Anyone see Krudd on Sunrise the other morning? I've never seen Kochie suck up so hard...


----------



## kincella (13 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Julia Gillard, Swan, Tanner and the rest are just as stupid........no she will not become PM....she needed the union backing and now she losing that

 they have always struggled...however its worse now...now there is finally some questioning about their policies.....the idea of a double dissolution
may seem even more compelling to them...so they can get the hell out of here and leave all the problems to some one else...anybody else will do..

apart from the cash handout....nothing else is working for them...
and the Swans  budget ideas of expats and share schemes is already dead...

the Wongs climate change policy shelved...the water problem has become worse..nothing fixed..just more money thrown at some farm to buy rights...for which no water exists.....the huge bungling and waste of funds is unbelievable..
the Unions are fighting with ms Silliard..oops gilliard....
they have no idea how to fix anything...so it can only get worse..

ps apologies to my friends...on other topics....if you are labor supporters...

I would voice my protest and disagree... regardless of who is in power....our leader and team have to run the  biggest business in Australia.....and be seen to be doing the job properly......that is not happening under the current team....


----------



## MrBurns (13 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



gav said:


> Anyone see Krudd on Sunrise the other morning? I've never seen Kochie suck up so hard...




Kochie gives me the ****s lately, as does Fifi freeking Box


----------



## Calliope (13 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

It' all about plaques and spin.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,6670280,00.jpg


----------



## Calliope (13 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Kevin's still at it.



> In news just to hand, the Prime Minister has downplayed criticisms by US trade envoy Kurt Campbell of his plans for an Asia-Pacific community. Speaking through a spokesman, Rudd said it would still be possible for Australia to pursue the creation of a new multilateral grouping without the input of the US
> 
> 
> *"Kurt Campbell can stick his head up a dead bear's bum,"* he added.




http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,25627724-7583,00.html


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (13 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Kevin's still at it.
> 
> 
> In news just to hand, the Prime Minister has downplayed criticisms by US trade envoy Kurt Campbell of his plans for an Asia-Pacific community. Speaking through a spokesman, Rudd said it would still be possible for Australia to pursue the creation of a new multilateral grouping without the input of the US
> ...




If it gets past the moderators at ASF it must be true.

I can't imagine suckey Kevie saying it though.

gg


----------



## Julia (13 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> If it gets past the moderators at ASF it must be true.
> 
> I can't imagine suckey Kevie saying it though.
> 
> gg



Can't you?  I certainly can.   It seems that since some image maker told him he needs to be less of a nerd and more of an Ocker Bloke, he's acquired a little book of "Popular Aussie Slang" and is swotting it up, thrilled with this wonderful new means of communicating with his loyal subjects.


----------



## MrBurns (13 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

There;s a load of articles on Rudd and spin if you care to Google it, he is definitely more interested in spin than substance.

Great shame to see AU subjected to this unworthy person as our PM at this crucial time in our history.


----------



## Purple XS2 (14 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> There;s a load of articles on Rudd and spin if you care to Google it, he is definitely more interested in spin than substance.




Is this not politics as usual?


> Great shame to see AU subjected to this unworthy person as our PM at this crucial time in our history.




Regretably Mr. B, it's what we pipples voted for, and what we will continue to vote for in the foreseable future - alternative media princesses of one shade or another.

And no, I don't see a solution coming out of political evolution. It won't be a change in political institutions that changes politics, it will be a change in how the pipples obtain and assess information. At the moment we digest spin fed by experts to the mainstream media. When that changes, we'll get different politicians.


----------



## rhen (15 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

http://www.abc.net.au/insidebusiness/content/2009/s2597585.htm

ALAN KOHLER, PRESENTER: _ANZ Westpac and NAB must have been laughing like drains this week as Kevin Rudd and Wayne Swan were laying into the Commonwealth with hobnailed boots after it put up its mortgage rate by 0.1 of one per cent to 5.74 per cent.

ANZ and Westpac still have their home loan rate at 5.81 per cent and nab's is the same as CBA's is now - 5.74.

...

Well stone the crows and starve the lizards said Kevin and Wayne, here's a chance to *distract attention from rising unemployment*. So in they went, happily hurling insults at the hapless Ralph Norris of Commonwealth, whose home loans are still the *cheapest of the big four*.

But that's politics for you._


----------------------------------------
and Team B, not to be outdone by the other two of Team A:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/14/2597577.htm

_Gillard 'furious' over CBA rate rise
Deputy Prime Minister Julia Gillard has told Channel Nine the Commonwealth Bank's decision goes against the Government's attempts to stimulate the economy.

"This is a decision the Government is rightly furious about and one we are describing as selfish because that's precisely the right word," she said.

"The Commonwealth Bank is acting in a selfish way._


Let's get on with Government.


----------



## MrBurns (15 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Spin spin spin, I think eveyones getting sick of it, I dont believe a word they say anymore. They are completely without credibility to the extent that Howard by comparision now looks like a Church Minister.


----------



## noirua (15 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Rudd is definitely in for the mega long term now and it only seems that bad health could rock his boat. Should still be there in 2020 running the new Republic.

Kevin Rudd: The early years
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/gallery/0,22056,5025871-5010140,00.html#


----------



## MrBurns (15 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noirua said:


> Rudd is definitely in for the mega long term now and it only seems that bad health could rock his boat. Should still be there in 2020 running the new Republic.




I think he'll be tossed out on his oh so precious **** next time round.


----------



## kincella (15 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

oh dear...another one easily fooled...lets see ...finally giving single pensioners 32 pw ..but not to the unemployed who receive about 130 less than that pf...
they only won by 12,000 votes last time...due to the unions backing them....but now they feel they no longer need the unions...who must make up a few hundred thousand voters....
and that blonde thing that took over Howards seat....the locals have not seen nor heard from her since....disillusioned voters...you bet...
oh and he will not be allowed to handover any more cash to buy them again


----------



## MrBurns (15 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



kincella said:


> and that blonde thing that took over Howards seat....the locals have not seen nor heard from her since....disillusioned voters...you bet...




Politics sux doesnt it, there a man who spent his whole life in politics doing what he had to or what he thought was right and this grinning slag from the ABC beats him at the polls, makes a mockery of the entire system


----------



## kincella (15 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

and it was at her poll, that news showed shots of union members...I mean thugs, bullying the locals in how to vote...a couple of truckloads or buses rolled up...then the silence was just as interesting

the PM is not a nerd... he is a calculating, deceitful con artist.....same as his deputies


----------



## kincella (15 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

try this link...thanks from a poster on another forum....
predictions for the 2010 elections...

only a 3.5% swing required to get the labour out whoo hoo

http://www.abc.net.au/elections/fed...wa=0&sa=0&tas=0&act=0&nt=0&retiringfactor=1.5


----------



## MrBurns (15 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



kincella said:


> try this link...thanks from a poster on another forum....
> predictions for the 2010 elections...
> 
> only a 3.5% swing required to get the labour out whoo hoo
> ...




Now if Malcolm Turnbull can just get his act together


----------



## kincella (15 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

does Peter need to lodge his intentions by 30.06.09...
Malcom is hopeless...and Abbott needs his head read


----------



## MrBurns (15 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Dunno, Malcolm might lift his game, hope so the election is totally winable, Rudd is getting on the nose fast.


----------



## Calliope (15 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> Dunno, Malcolm might lift his game, hope so the election is totally winable, Rudd is getting on the nose fast.




He can't lift his game. He is too far to the left to lead the Coalition to victory, 
and the blue rinse and doctors' wives sets in Wentworth would drop him like a hot potato if he belatedly tried to become a "big L" Liberal.


----------



## MrBurns (15 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> He can't lift his game. He is too far to the left to lead the Coalition to victory,
> and the blue rinse and doctors' wives sets in Wentworth would drop him like a hot potato if he belatedly tried to become a "big L" Liberal.




He's got too much money to have the killer instinct, i get the feeling that he'll just shrug his shoulders and go back to counting his money if it doesnt go his way, he's not driven, you need to be passionate , driven, and he just isn't.


----------



## Calliope (15 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

And Costello is not contesting the next election.


----------



## kincella (15 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Turnbull just announced Costello will not be running for Higgins....
damn it....stuffed now


----------



## MrBurns (15 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



kincella said:


> Turnbull just announced Costello will not be running for Higgins....
> damn it....stuffed now




Costello is/was disappointing, Hockey is ok but doesn't really come across as a leader.

Turnbull had better get some mongrel into himself and fast.


----------



## Julia (15 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> He's got too much money to have the killer instinct, i get the feeling that he'll just shrug his shoulders and go back to counting his money if it doesnt go his way, he's not driven, you need to be passionate , driven, and he just isn't.



I'm not sure that's right.   Throughout his career he has more often than not got what he has wanted.   Leading the country would be the ultimate power play for him.

I actually quite like him and think he's gaining confidence and effectiveness.
Hopefully this will increase now that he knows Costello is no longer a threat.

Expect his relief at Costello's announcement would only be equalled by the joy of the government.


----------



## MrBurns (15 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> I'm not sure that's right.   Throughout his career he has more often than not got what he has wanted.   Leading the country would be the ultimate power play for him.
> 
> I actually quite like him and think he's gaining confidence and effectiveness.
> Hopefully this will increase now that he knows Costello is no longer a threat.
> ...




I quite like him too and think he knows what he's doing but just doesnt come across with enough passion.


----------



## Julia (15 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> I quite like him too and think he knows what he's doing but just doesnt come across with enough passion.



I know what you mean, but I don't think it's something you can force.
His style is more laid back, sophisticated.

One thing I reckon he needs to stop is the amused attitude he takes at the commencement of an interview with Kerry O'Brien.   It comes across as patronising and is really offputting.  Anyone else noticed this?  

Remember when Kim Beazley finally secured the leadership of the Opposition.
He was just bursting out all over the place about how fired up he was, that he knew he was what the country needed, he had the passion and the fire in the belly etc etc., and it just sounded all wrong.  He's just not that kind of bloke.

Let's see if Mr Turnbull can make some progress now that the Costello monkey is off his back.

I'm hopeful Malcolm Turnbull will


----------



## nunthewiser (15 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



> Rudd handling economic crisis well: poll
> 15th June 2009, 14:45 WST
> 
> A growing number of voters believe the Rudd government is handling the global financial crisis well and that economic conditions will improve over the next year, a survey shows.
> ...




http://www.thewest.com.au/aapstory.aspx?StoryName=580632

 blessim


----------



## Quincy (16 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



> *Newspoll suggests Labor's lead crumbling*
> 
> The latest Newspoll shows Labor's lead over the coalition is crumbling, with the government's primary vote just one percentage point ahead of the opposition.
> 
> ...




http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=825868
05:52 AEST Tue Jun 16 2009


----------



## Julia (16 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Thanks, Quincy.  Encouraging.


----------



## Taltan (16 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I can't see Rudd losing the next election. Australians rarely vote out govts after one term and Rudd seems a master at playing the media. The GFC was the wildcard in the pack and when Rudd announced his ridiculous stimilus packages back in Feb when the world was almost falling off the economic cliff I thought he would lose if things continued to get worse. However as its turned out 6 months later the world economy has recovered and we are now facing a reccession rather than economic armageddon. This means that most voters will never appreciate the folly of Rudd's actions on the stimilus package or the FHSA and I expect he will be returned. It maybe also be why Costello decided to give up the chase.


----------



## Julia (16 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Taltan, realistic comments. Thanks.
Plenty of time for much to change before the election.


----------



## Calliope (16 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Taltan said:


> This means that most voters will never appreciate the folly of Rudd's actions on the stimilus package or the FHSA and I expect he will be returned. It maybe also be why Costello decided to give up the chase.




I think you are right. It is unfortunate, but a fact of life,  Rudd will be PM for as long as he wants the job. His popularity in the polls has never faltered. Yes, Costello could see the writing on the wall. The last great hope has vanished in a puff of smoke.


----------



## kincella (16 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Oh I would not be so confident...the polls are 41% labor and 40% libs....
note...* labor losing ground and libs regaining it....thats how they say they would vote now.....so the popularity is disappearing very fast now...

polls need less than 3% change for the libs to win...I posted  the link yesterday
you dont really believe the silly polls that say the krudd is the preferred pm do you ? 57  to Turnbull 28....or whatever...not many like Turnbull....but lets see what we find in Higgins....Costello's old seat

the media finally waking up to the 'spin'....voters dont like being conned...
cheers

ps I did not like Howard....but I do prefer the Libs record compared to the Labs....which is  full of union thugs


----------



## kincella (16 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

amazing on ch10 news....Abbott said he thought Costello was being kind to Turnbull...giving up his.. Costello's career..to give Turnbull a free rein....Peter was chuckling pretty hard on that one...or was it choking...

then they said Rudd was going to find a job for Peter...and Peter said he would like to help .....
hello....Petes not going to join the labor party is he ???
or just as a consultant to teach Swan how to do it ?

whoa...this is one political hot potatoe now
my goodness...what if Costello was offered the job as Treasurer....no...he is not going to be the bridesmaid again ....but what the ....changing sides....helping the enemy


----------



## Julia (16 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Kincella, I don't imagine even Rudd would aspire to enrolling Mr Costello in the Labor Party.

The sort of job he may have in mind would probably something overseas, maybe a diplomatic post somewhere.   

Might be quite wrong, however.


----------



## Aussiejeff (17 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

[size=+1]**** HURRY, HURRY, HURRY!!!****[/size]



> *AUSTRALIANS wanting to secure an intimate sit-down dinner with the Prime Minister have just hours left to bid for the privilege on eBay.
> 
> But they will need a lazy $20,000 or so to be in the running.*
> 
> ...



http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25648892-5005961,00.html

Surely one of our dearly beloved ASF KRuddites will win?

How is your bid going Mr Burns?


----------



## kincella (17 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I doubt Peter would be interested in going overseas....he has 3 children Phoebe is the youngest at 15..the other 2 are about 21 and 22...
best schools/uni's in the world in Melb...I would think Peter would want the children to complete their studies here...
cannot see labor wanting him offside to call them stupid etc... they ridiculed the former treasure and blamed him for the mess we are in now...
maybe nothing will come of it....
but when Peter talks , most of us take notice...he could mentor that group of idiots ...
today he is warning on inflation in the future
http://business.theage.com.au/business/costello-issues-inflation-warning-20090616-cgmf.html


----------



## Quincy (19 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



> *Chinese give PM Kevin Rudd lesson on neoliberalism*
> 
> By Rowan Callick, Asia-Pacific editor | June 19, 2009
> http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,,25657881-643,00.html
> ...




Looks like the Chinese are starting to see the light.


----------



## Datsun Disguise (19 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Just read an extraordinry article in The Age. Not so much for the content, but the headline.

Turnbull bullied PM's staffer: Swan

The article refers to malcolm warning the staffer not to lie to protect krud - and pointing out the existence of documentary evidence of links between the PM's office and treasury on the Ozcar / Utegate affair that, if true, would already show that lies have been told.

So the headline is "malcolms a bully" rather than - "It is looking like the PM and his office have been lying".

Will be interesting how the media treat the senate inquiry findings. Apparently there is a bit of a state of fear among the press corps regaridng being critical - those who are find themselves cut off from information and with nothing to report their livlihoods begin to look a little shaky - how easily we are manipulated these days......


----------



## kincella (25 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

one of the best cartoons I 've seen in a long time
followed by an excellent article

http://business.theage.com.au/business/lil-kev-must-be-beginning-to-wonder-20090624-cwtr.html


----------



## MrBurns (25 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



kincella said:


> one of the best cartoons I 've seen in a long time
> followed by an excellent article
> 
> http://business.theage.com.au/business/lil-kev-must-be-beginning-to-wonder-20090624-cwtr.html




Te best depiction of Rudd yet


----------



## kincella (25 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

it has to be on top of the list...one of the best...I might buy it and frame it

you did notice krudd as the alice in wonderland...and sitting under a mighty mushroom....

and have a look at these eamils...they confirm what Turnbull has been saying...however I fear the smokescreen is working....and I have not read a report from the AFP to say the email is fake...those were Krudds words last week before the AFP became involved....just seems funny...or strange for the afp to use those words...still coming from krudd...not the afp

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/files/emails.pdf


----------



## Calliope (25 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



kincella said:


> and have a look at these eamils...they confirm what Turnbull has been saying...however I fear the smokescreen is working....and I have not read a report from the AFP to say the email is fake...those were Krudds words last week before the AFP became involved....just seems funny...or strange for the afp to use those words...still coming from krudd...not the afp
> 
> http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/files/emails.pdf




So many people spending so much time to look after a Rudd mate. It's obvious they are all doing it because that's what Rudd told them to do. Why else?:dunno: It's no wonder poor old Swanny had to lie to Parliament about it.

Did you hear Swan being interviewed on ABC this morning by Emma Griffiths. She tried to get the names out of him of the other dealers he claimed he had given special attention. He wouldn't come clean.

It was quite funny. He is such a bad liar. He gets all flustered. One exchange went like this;

Griffiths...You haven't answered the question.

Swan...It's not exactly the right question.

It's obvious that when asked questions that don't coincide with his long well-rehearsed answers, (the same one's he's been spouting for a week) he falls apart.


----------



## Buckeroo (25 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

This whole affair smacks of typical union thuggery & intimidation. I'm sure a number of business people can sympathize with Turnbull, having also been on the receiving end of drummed up speculative abuse.

Incidentally, has anyone noticed Rudd isn't traveling outside the country much these days? I'd speculate that maybe all the world leaders are sick of him & told him to stay at home.

Cheers


----------



## Calliope (27 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/utes-dead-cats-and-cloud-seeding-20090626-czs6.html



> Kevin Rudd, who knows when to surrender to absurdity, has opted out of this weekend's WA Labor conference in Perth and instead will appear on tomorrow night's Rove with Austria's premier fictional gay fashion journalist, BrÃ¼no. Shouldn't imagine that will be weird at all.




I'm sure the three of them have a lot in common


----------



## MrBurns (27 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/utes-dead-cats-and-cloud-seeding-20090626-czs6.html
> I'm sure the three of them have a lot in common




2 gay icons together as it should be, Bruno will have to try extra hard or everone will think Rudd is more gay than him.


----------



## trainspotter (27 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Right now the Federal Government is at pains to tell everyone - including us the mug-punters to the International Monetary Fund that it will not exceed its own, self-imposed, borrowing limits. How much? $200 billion. And here's a worry. If you work in a bank's money market operation; or if you are a politician; the millions turn into billions and it rolls off the tip of the tongue a bit too easily.

But every dollar that is borrowed, some time, has to be repaid. By you, by me and by the rest of the country. 

Just after 5 o'clock tonight I did a bit of maths for Jason Morrison. But it's so staggering its worth repeating now. First though ... here's what Chairman Rudd has been saying about - what he calls - these temporary borrowings. Remember those words ... temporary deficit . but the total Government debt could end up around $200 billion.

So here's a very basic calculation ... I used a home loan calculator to work it out ... it's that simple.

$200 billion is $200,000 million. The current 10 year Government bond rate is 4.67 per cent. I worked the loan out over a period of 20 years.

Now here's where it gets scary ... really scary.

The repayments on $200 billion come to more than one and a quarter billion dollars - every month - for 20 years. It works out we - as taxpayers - will be repaying $15.4 billion in interest and principal every year ... $733 for every man woman and child - every year.

The total interest bill over the 20 years is - get this - $108 billion.

And remember, this is a Government that just 18 months ago had NO debt . NO debt. In fact it had enough money to create the Future Fund to pay the future liabilities of public servants' superannuation ... and it had enough to stick $20 billion into the Building Australia Fund last year ...

Money News
Ross Greenwood Presenter


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (27 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I do not see what all the fuss is about with Rudd and Swan giving an advantage to a mate.

They would , wouldn't they!

All politicians do it.

Howard did it to his brother.

Turnbull would do it if he was in power and thought he would get away with it.

Most reasonable people would.

I would.

Its normal.

You guys are sounding like godbotherers traipsing out the ten C's, given to Moses by Yahweh, and Moses was not above giving the inside running to his mob.

So flex out and don't take it too seriously.

When I elect a representative I expect him to be crooked. If he gets caught thats his problem.

This thread is not about morals, its about getting caught, and we are talking about politicians with dubious history and morals who are experts at not getting caught and wiggling out of compromising situations.

I am keen for any politicians reading this to contact me , so I can put them on a list for future favours.

My email is ggumnut@yahoo.com

I always vote for the winners in elections and look forward to a profitable relationship with any who can prove who they are, are willing to give me a pecuniary advantage and don't leave a trail to gumnutinc, as the company relies on the utmost secrecy.

gg

gg


----------



## trainspotter (27 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Carpal Gumnut for P.M. !! At least I know when I grease your palm I will get great lip service. Te he !


----------



## Datsun Disguise (27 June 2009)

*Rudd's broken election promises*

Just saw on the news that another of Rudds promises has been broken - the 'grocery watch' website was due to be launched next week. This would have shown us all the pricing of groceries across the country - and would have put the duopoly in an uncomfortable position... Anyway no worries - it's been canned (ptp). So that's another promise gone. That along with the recent axing of the solar rebate scheme (and the lilihood that it will be replaced with nothing, instead of the planned 4x feed in tariff).

I know we have a couple of Rudd inspired threads, but I thought this one could keep us aprised of just how much a promise means to Kevin. 

So please post your favourite broken, watered down, redefined or forgotten promises Rudd and co. made to catch the popular vote. I'd say in this case past performance is a very good indicator of future performance.


----------



## trainspotter (27 June 2009)

*Re: Rudds broken election promises*

Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd is pushing back his green agenda by a year. He announced recently that his government’s carbon emissions trading scheme will come into force only by 2011. Some features of the scheme are also getting diluted. The Australian Premier blames it all on the global economic crisis. Does this count as a broken promise or is it just a delaying tactic?


----------



## kincella (27 June 2009)

*Re: Rudds broken election promises*

must say I am impressed with xenophon and fielding lately.....

*Probe Grocery Choice axing: Xenophon*
Simon Jenkins

I've got to say that the Grocery Choice fiasco begs some very big questions about the power of Coles and Woolworths as well as the role of the ACCC and the government."

The government handed control of the website and its remaining $13 million budget over to the consumer advocate group Choice last December, after it faced plenty of criticism under the jurisdiction of the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission.

http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-...cery-choice-axing-xenophon-20090627-d0do.html


----------



## knocker (27 June 2009)

*Re: Rudds broken election promises*



Datsun Disguise said:


> Just saw on the news that another of Rudds promises has been broken - the 'grocery watch' website was due to be launched next week. This would have shown us all the pricing of groceries across the country - and would have put the duopoly in an uncomfortable position... Anyway no worries - it's been canned (ptp). So that's another promise gone. That along with the recent axing of the solar rebate scheme (and the lilihood that it will be replaced with nothing, instead of the planned 4x feed in tariff).
> 
> I know we have a couple of Rudd inspired threads, but I thought this one could keep us aprised of just how much a promise means to Kevin.
> 
> So please post your favourite broken, watered down, redefined or forgotten promises Rudd and co. made to catch the popular vote. I'd say in this case past performance is a very good indicator of future performance.




He's made a promise to himself to keep smiling every tax payer funded trip abroad.


----------



## trainspotter (27 June 2009)

*Re: Rudds broken election promises*

His smile could be seen from space I would be reckoning:- PRIME Minister Kevin Rudd spent more than $730,000 on overseas travel in just six months.

A parliamentary report shows the Prime Minister, who has previously been dubbed Kevin 747, spent $733,725 on overseas travel in the last six months of 2008. 

The report also shows it cost $216,283 to run Mr Rudd's official car in the same period. What kind of car is it? A gold plated Hummer with the Governator at the wheel?


----------



## gav (27 June 2009)

*Re: Rudds broken election promises*



trainspotter said:


> Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd is pushing back his green agenda by a year. He announced recently that his government’s carbon emissions trading scheme will come into force only by 2011. Some features of the scheme are also getting diluted. The Australian Premier blames it all on the global economic crisis. Does this count as a broken promise or is it just a delaying tactic?




LOL @ blaming global ecomonic crisis.  Carbon emissions are still being produced, whether there is a global economic crisis or not...  It did nothing except suck in the 'hippy vote', whilst he keeps watering down the scheme and laying the blame elsewhere..


----------



## So_Cynical (27 June 2009)

*Re: Rudds broken election promises*



trainspotter said:


> Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd is pushing back his green agenda by a year. He announced recently that his government’s carbon emissions trading scheme will come into force only by 2011. Some features of the scheme are also getting diluted. The Australian Premier blames it all on the global economic crisis. Does this count as a broken promise or is it just a delaying tactic?




Funny cos i though the fact that labor couldn't get the legislation past the senate had 
something to do with that? 

The scheme has been diluted in order to maker it more political palatable to the political 
center (the two idiot senators) since the greens want nothing to do with it as its so soft 
and inconsequential.



gav said:


> LOL @ blaming global ecomonic crisis.  Carbon emissions are still being produced, whether there is a global economic crisis or not...  It did nothing except suck in the 'hippy vote', whilst he keeps watering down the scheme and laying the blame elsewhere..




So gav...your saying we shouldn't blame the liberal/national, fielding and xenophobia senators for 
not voting to pass the bill? and for having it watering down?

I should no better than to post in a blatant...lets bash the (labor) center and left thread.


----------



## trainspotter (27 June 2009)

*Re: Rudds broken election promises*

My sincerest of apologies to you So_Cynical. You are correct  by stating that this thread is a lefty bashing exercise just as you are 100% affirmative that it was the Coalition who requested a delay in the ETS. Mr Rudd said: "I am in the practical business of responding to realistic challenges with which we are now confronted … This is a hard piece of policy, it is difficult, it is complex, and made doubly and trebly so because of the global economic circumstances." As far as I am aware there was no vote in the senate by either party BUT the Coalition/Independents/Greens made Kruddy and his cronies fully aware they would vote against it. THE Government's emissions trading scheme will not be voted on until August after the Senate formally deferred the decision today. (25th June 2009)

The government wanted legislation for the scheme passed before parliament rose for the seven week winter recess. 

But independent Senator Nick Xenophon reached an agreement with the Coalition to postpone the vote. 

The South Australian Senator and the Coalition have agreed to carry out the additional modelling on the Rudd government’s emissions trading scheme.

Hmmmmmmmm ... could be a broken promise in the making perhaps?


----------



## Datsun Disguise (27 June 2009)

*Re: Rudds broken election promises*



trainspotter said:


> The report also shows it cost $216,283 to run Mr Rudd's official car in the same period. What kind of car is it? A gold plated Hummer with the Governator at the wheel?





I think this deserves a thread of it's own - what did he do crash and write off the car 3 times? Or maybe pay offs for the driver to keep those trips to oxford st a nice little secret?


----------



## Datsun Disguise (27 June 2009)

*Re: Rudds broken election promises*



So_Cynical said:


> So gav...your saying we shouldn't blame the liberal/national, fielding and xenophobia senators for
> not voting to pass the bill? and for having it watering down?




Blame the coal industry and the incredible dollars it generates. If our end goal is reducing our carbon production we have to stop burning brown coal locally - don't think we can afford to stop selling the stuff though. So as I recall Rudd carried on about addressing climate change. Most Aussies would take this to mean;

1, SUPPORTING clean energy (such as solar energy rebates, hmmmmmmmm)
2, REDUCING  heavy carbon emissions - Victoria's Loy Yang power plant produces a stagering amoutn of the worlds carbon emmissions. (hello Nuclear)
3, ALLOWING ordinary working families  (sorry, feeling ill after using that expression) to positively contribute to carbon reduction instead of just handing those savings over to industry as credits.

Rudd claimed to be an aussie and purported to shared all of our hopes, aspirations and dreams - turns out he's just a megalomaniac, although perhaps on the nasty end of the scale.


----------



## Julia (27 June 2009)

*Re: Rudds broken election promises*

And then there was the Fuel Watch fiasco.

They spent I think around $13M on Grocery Watch before canning it.
Why not do the damn research first and discover it wouldn't work before spending money and wasting Choice's time.


----------



## MrBurns (27 June 2009)

*Re: Rudds broken election promises*

You wouldnt put these idots in charge of the purse strings in a pink fit would you ? Sorry too late


----------



## MrBurns (28 June 2009)

*Re: Rudds broken election promises*

This is as good a place as any for this I guess - 

Had to ring Telstra 3 times today as the connection was down.

Every time I get an Indian voice, presumably they are in Mumbai or somewhere similar.

So Rudd's bull ****ting on about employment but the company half owned by the Govt outsources tech support overseas ?

Ohhh it's all about jobs, ohhhhh I'm so concerned

Hypocrite.


----------



## drsmith (28 June 2009)

*Re: Rudds broken election promises*

I just don't like him.


----------



## jet328 (28 June 2009)

*Re: Rudds broken election promises*

"I'm an economic conservative"


----------



## kincella (28 June 2009)

*Re: Rudds broken election promises*

I dont like any of them...except for Peter Costello and am warming to the 2 new independents...but none of the others on either side...
these huge stuff ups will not be forgotten at the next election......


----------



## Uncle Barry (28 June 2009)

*Re: Rudds broken election promises*

Good evening.
"Had to ring Telstra 3 times today as the connection was down.

Every time I get an Indian voice, presumably they are in Mumbai or somewhere similar"

Whats your problem ?
You should try and change your Credit Card details !

We have spent 3 days, in time connected about 6 hours PLUS 

Just to give Telstra some money.
And each time we had someone that had trouble with English, all too hard.

And then as we thought, maybe, we will try another carrier, on the last chance so to speak, we found one person who said thats easy and the change was made in about 30 seconds.

Kind regards,
UB


----------



## Uncle Barry (28 June 2009)

*Re: Rudds broken election promises*

Hi, 
As someone who has some pages on the net, some 100's.

I am shocked and wonder who is laughing, at 
"They spent I think around $13M on Grocery Watch before canning it."

13 MIILION Dollars ........
thats enough to buy a Ute or 430 odd Utes.

My best reply to that would be your ripped off mug !

Hey, 
Comrade Red, 
you know all about your mates Kev and Swan, 
how about you tell me,
why this web site could or would cost 13 million.

Kind regards,
UB


----------



## MrBurns (28 June 2009)

*Re: Rudds broken election promises*

NO web site costs $13M, just another example of us being ripped off.

I'd say "consultants" took most of it, bludgers and parasites taking money from witless Govt officials.


----------



## robots (28 June 2009)

*Re: Rudds broken election promises*

hello,

every school child will have a computer, 

what happened to this one?

i understand its access to a computer now

thankyou
robots


----------



## kincella (28 June 2009)

*Re: Rudds broken election promises*

and Choice will sue them for the broken contract......choice did all this work and then the plug pulled out less than 6 months later.....


----------



## Uncle Barry (28 June 2009)

*Re: Rudds broken election promises*

Hi,
BUT HOW COULD this web site have cost Kev and the swan who is only a goose..if he spent 13 million for NOTHING 
13 million dollars ?

Impossible,

Comrade Red, 
I need your help, will you get on the phone to Kev or your Union headquaters and ask for me, thanks mate, opps, sorry, Comrade.

Kind regards,
UB
PS, hey Comrade, can I tender for the next web site, that won't be used, and I promise to make the tender figure at least about 400 Utes.

PPS, I really think there should be an inquiry as to where this 13 mill, went and to who, and was there a ute in exchange or something ! 

PPPS...wish we had the contract for 'that' web site !


----------



## kincella (28 June 2009)

*Re: Rudds broken election promises*

about the computers.... that idiot forgot about access to the internet....so they delivered computers....but did not allow for anything else....service providors, internet access....hello...where is the money coming from to pay for this.....
without internet access for research etc....its just a glorified calculator...
and half of those kids...will have the pc stolen by parents or others, to pay for whatever habit they have.....
was it $2000 or $2500 they were paying for each PC....you can buy retail for about 600-700.....I for one would expect a huge discount if I was ordering 10's of thousands of the things.....wouldnt you ?

another wasted stuff up.....thanks Julia, Kev, Wayne and Lindsay


----------



## Julia (28 June 2009)

*Re: Rudds broken election promises*



kincella said:


> and Choice will sue them for the broken contract......choice did all this work and then the plug pulled out less than 6 months later.....



And five days before the website, which had had all the work completed, was set to kick off.  No wonder Choice is annoyed +++.



kincella said:


> about the computers.... that idiot forgot about access to the internet....so they delivered computers...



Perhaps they delivered them in your part of the country, kincella, but I'm in and around three schools here and there is not a student computer to be seen.

I'd like to see some explanation of where the $13M went on grocery watch.
Such an immensely silly idea in the first place.


----------



## jono1887 (28 June 2009)

*Re: Rudds broken election promises*



robots said:


> hello,
> 
> every school child will have a computer,
> 
> ...




1 - It wasnt every school child, it was every senior or highschool student... and this is going through quite well.
2 - The education tax rebate is extremely helpful in this, I'm sure even the poorest of families could afford those $399 Asus laptops after the 50% rebate.


----------



## jono1887 (28 June 2009)

*Re: Rudds broken election promises*



Julia said:


> I'd like to see some explanation of where the $13M went on grocery watch.
> Such an immensely silly idea in the first place.




The grocery watch program was ultimately useless. It would be impractical for the site to be constantly updated for the weekly sales and the fluctuations in prices. 

Wouldn't it be more practical to shoppers to simply carry a calculator and work it out themselves or teach them basic arithmetic in schools


----------



## Uncle Barry (29 June 2009)

*Re: Rudd's broken election promises*

1887
"It would be impractical for the site to be constantly updated for the weekly sales and the fluctuations in prices. "

One quick and easy answer to your statement, 
Rubbish !

It would not be, in fact the prices could change daily.

Matey you had better ask your local branch or union, for a better answer next time,


----------



## trainspotter (29 June 2009)

*Re: Rudd's broken election promises*

Whatever happened to Rudd's Army? A deployable civilian brigade of jackboots to quell any uprisings? Or is it more of a "Team Australia" thing to rival the American Homeland Security Division? Sorry could not help myself on that one. Of course it was a an emergency response register of personell to handle national disasters. Gone any further? Nup.


----------



## Judd (29 June 2009)

*Re: Rudds broken election promises*



MrBurns said:


> NO web site costs $13M, just another example of us being ripped off.
> 
> I'd say "consultants" took most of it, bludgers and parasites taking money from witless Govt officials.




I understand that the $13M was to be spent over five years.

ASIC originally had GroceryWatch but the ACCC expressed legal concerns about a Government (quasi or not) providing commercial advice so Choice was contracted to do the work.  So far about about $6m has been spent on the website and the software required to extract and assimilate the necessary data.

Problem is that the data is NOT live.  It was to be a few days behind and possibly averaged per product not necessarily the price per product per store.  Essentially useless as prices can change in any week or on any given time in the day.  The consumer odium when that was discovered would have rebounded on the Government.  Not a good look.

Choice are peed off because this was a chance to play with the big boys and given them a degree of relevance - as happens when any not-for-profit gets its mouth around the public teat called taxpayer funding.  It insists that the companies could provide live data but the big boys indicated to enable necessary system changes would cost them a few million.  They were not prepared to spend that (?Choice attitude.  Gummint could pay for that.  My view not on your Nellie as enough of my dosh and that of others have been misspent.)

But the whole concept was a waste of time and money.  Would you really travel an extra 5 or more kilometers to buy a kilo of Pink Lady apples because they were at $4.92 per kg at Store A and $4.97 per kg at Store B yet your favourite ice cream was $7.48 at Store B and $7.40 at Store A? 

The supermarkets would need to be almost next to each other before I'd be bothered with looking up such irrelevant information on a website.


----------



## Calliope (29 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crfGXmxJ1vM

The Punch


> *
> Please no sequel to the Rudd on Rove show*
> 
> Kevin Rudd was last night upstaged by an 18 inch plastic bum wiping stick he later said he would consider using in the right circumstances.
> ...


----------



## trainspotter (29 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

After watching that I will answer the topic of this thread:- Does Rudd inspire confidence? In a word .. NO.


----------



## MrBurns (29 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Yes KRudd was at his greasy best making sure he got the utegate topic in with his justification, ohhh we're all mates oh ? utegate hohoho here's how it goes. 
What an absolute crawling tosser trying to be one of the crowd when he certainly would be more at home in a St Kilda public toilet block.
Very cringeworthy performance.


----------



## trainspotter (29 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

What do you expect from a man who does this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ipvdBnU8F8

or this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDg9...794AD5BA&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=35

I rest my case.


----------



## rhen (29 June 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Here we go again?

_The businessman at the centre of the OzCar affair was involved in fund-raising efforts to help Prime Minister Kevin Rudd meet a $32,000 legal bill.

For several days, Fairfax Media has sought a response from Mr Rudd over whether Brisbane car dealer John Grant and other members of Brisbane's elite 51 Club filled two tables at a May 2002 dinner to raise money to help Mr Rudd pay legal costs associated with a campaign on aircraft noise at Brisbane airport.

Fairfax Media also asked Mr Rudd whether he had raised Mr Grant's business interests regarding the importation of white-goods to Australia while on any of his trips to China.
_
_*But Mr Rudd's office has refused to discuss either matter, with his spokesman saying:"All of Mr Rudd's interactions with Mr Grant have been entirely appropriate."*_

I guess with an army of sycophants one may be able to "refuse to discuss" and find that process "entirely appropriate" as well?

There's more ... http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nat...iend-helped-pay-legal-bill-20090625-cxoc.html


----------



## Bafana (30 June 2009)

*Re: Rudd's broken election promises*

They seem to be having difficulty meeting some of their promises but they are getting stuff done. Doesn't help that the opposition looks like the only thing they can do is try and stop anything the people want from getting passed and whinge about Labor's inability to deliver because of it. Zero credibility.

Pity they can't break the supermarket adn petrol station cartels though. I just cam back from living in Singapore and Aussie fresh food was nearly 20-30% cheaper without the good Aussie to Singapore exchange rate. How can this be... Petrol was the same price but that prob because the petrol cartels are global so their price fixing is easier.


----------



## trainspotter (30 June 2009)

*Re: Rudd's broken election promises*

And now we know that someone is keeping track !

http://media.theaustralian.com.au/multimedia/2008/11/21-ruddspecial/rudd3.html

Hmmmm .. some good stuff in there.


----------



## Taltan (30 June 2009)

*Re: Rudd's broken election promises*

The main ones are:
grocery watch - cancelled

NBN Network - work to begin in July 2008, still we have nothing

Housing Affordability - Promise not to increase FHOG, than he did

Education Revolution - not sure what it was supposed to be but it didn't happened

Keep running budget surplus - well we all know what happened


----------



## Calliope (1 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

*Only time Rudd answers a question is when he asks it*

Madonna King on ABC Radio 612, having failed to get a simple yes or no answer from Rudd about his uite decided to give him an easy question. But it was still hard work



> King: I'll let my listeners decide whether that was answered yes or no. But can I ask you a simple yes or no here?
> 
> Rudd: It's a question of priorities for your listeners as well.
> 
> ...




http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25715283-20261,00.html


----------



## noco (1 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

No he does not inspire me.
Mr. Rudd (aka) "Mandrake the magician" for his slight of hand tactics.
OR
Mr.Rudd (aka) "Houdini" the great escape artist.

The naive cannot see through this man for what he really is!


----------



## Calliope (3 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Mr Rudd has admitted that the latest report on overcoming indigenous disadvantage is "devastating" and he is going to take "decisive" action. Yeah Right! . I think he said this on "sorry" day

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,6700400,00.jpg


----------



## Calliope (8 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Was I hearing things, or did I actually hear our PM in Berlin use the words "programmatic specificity" in relation to the G8 meeting?

Would his spin doctors have told him that the Germans like this sort of verbiage or is plain English now foreign to him?


----------



## Buddy (9 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Was I hearing things, or did I actually hear our PM in Berlin use the words "programmatic specificity" in relation to the G8 meeting?
> 
> Would his spin doctors have told him that the Germans like this sort of verbiage or is plain English now foreign to him?




Apparently these words do exist in the english language. However they are rarely used and apparently used together only by twits and canberrian bureaukrudds. 

Krudd, a man of the people? Bullshyte.


----------



## kincella (9 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

look this was supposed to be another world stage pic opportunity,,,,I mean he is over there telling the others, not to run up too much debt .......hell I think he has run up the biggest debt when compared to the population....
unfortunatley for him.....MJ died.....and no one is interested in anything but MJ....least of all the weasel from oz....

oh and I wonder if he even had an appointment with the pope...or just hoping the pope will see him..since he let it be known to all and sundry,

isnt that old farmer 'whatshisname' has a diplomatic role , something to do with the pope, living in Italy, costing us a million bucks a year ...surely thats his job to liase with the pope...
ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

MJ's death has blitzed even Obama...


----------



## MrBurns (9 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Hope the spring him in another brothel, they have to look in the right place though the one with the boys.


----------



## trainspotter (10 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

KEVIN Rudd presented Pope Benedict XVI with a leather-bound copy of the Australian parliament's motion of apology to the Stolen Generations during a 20-minute audience at the Vatican tonight. The Pope accepted the doucment and replied in Italian "PulirÃ² la mia parte inferiore con esso".

During the meeting in the ornately decorated library of the Papal apartments, the Prime Minister also gave the pontiff six bottles of De Bortoli Noble No 1 dessert wine in a small wooden crate. The Pope clearly distressed by this gesture replied in Italian "Voi a buon mercato bastardo. Dove Ã¨ il buon farcisca"

"It's very sweet," Mr Rudd told the Pope as he presented the wine. "You should think of us when you are here in the Vatican on a warm summer's night." The Pope exploded with "PenserÃ² voi, fronte della torta, quando lucido le mie sfere sudate sulla cassa di legno" in Italian yet again.

Now I am not much chop when it comes to Italian. Can someone out there translate for me please?


----------



## noirua (10 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> KEVIN Rudd presented Pope Benedict XVI with a leather-bound copy of the Australian parliament's motion of apology to the Stolen Generations during a 20-minute audience at the Vatican tonight. The Pope accepted the doucment and replied in Italian "PulirÃ² la mia parte inferiore con esso".
> 
> During the meeting in the ornately decorated library of the Papal apartments, the Prime Minister also gave the pontiff six bottles of De Bortoli Noble No 1 dessert wine in a small wooden crate. The Pope clearly distressed by this gesture replied in Italian "Voi a buon mercato bastardo. Dove Ã¨ il buon farcisca"
> 
> ...




The Pope gave Mr Rudd a pen and he replied, "Hew de blidding hall cans't I dwink dat".


----------



## trainspotter (10 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Let me help you:-

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_txt

Here is the link to decipher from Italian to English.


----------



## Buddy (10 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> Let me help you:-
> 
> http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_txt
> 
> Here is the link to decipher from Italian to English.




Huh????  "I will think you, forehead of the cake, when lucid my spheres sudate on the case of wood."

Sounds like something Krudd would say.


----------



## Calliope (10 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

The Australian


> The Pope gave Mr Rudd a signed copy of his recent Encyclical on truth and charity and a pen that replicates the design of one of the bronze alter columns in St Peter's Basilica.
> 
> "It's most beautiful, it's wonderful," Mr Rudd said as he examined the pen.
> *
> Before the meeting, Mr Rudd had said the Pope's encyclical that urged world leaders to give more consideration to ethics and values as they responded to the economic crisis was a welcome contribution "which all political leaders should take seriously and examine".*



*
*

Rudd could hardly stop laughing when he mentioned the *ethics and values* bit.


----------



## Timmy (10 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

You are all so cynical.

I think its great that the Pope was granted an audience with Mr. Rudd.


----------



## trainspotter (10 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Buddy said:


> Huh????  "I will think you, forehead of the cake, when lucid my spheres sudate on the case of wood."
> 
> Sounds like something Krudd would say.




"I will think of you, PIE FACE, when I rub my balls on the wooden crate."

The Pope was a bit off that day. Obviously confused from RUDDspeak.


----------



## Buddy (10 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> "I will think of you, PIE FACE, when I rub my balls on the wooden crate."
> 
> The Pope was a bit off that day. Obviously confused from RUDDspeak.




That's very good. Ha Ha 
Aahh. Now I get it.


----------



## Julia (13 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

We all know that Alan Jones is a die hard Liberal supporter. However, I expect the details in this comment from him are probably correct.
It's less than reassuring, and not surprising.



> Alan Jones Comment - this is frightening:
> 
> ......... a note that was sent to me which explains to me that the six  leading members of the Government from Mr. Rudd down, the top six have a  collective work experience of 181 years, but only 13 in the private sector.
> If you take out of those 13 years the number that were spent as trade union  lawyers, that total 11, of the 181 years only two years were spent in the  private sector.
> ...


----------



## trainspotter (13 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Aaaaaaaaahhhh .. which would explain as to why Rudd's people have refused interviews with Alan Jones. Not scripted enough.


----------



## Buckeroo (13 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

A concern for all of his. Unfortunately, the general public don't care as long as they continue to get hand outs.

But isn't karma great

Cheers


----------



## trainspotter (13 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I used to complain about the "handout welfare system" that we members of Banana Republic Land have become so used to. There I was working 14 hour days, 7 days a week for 11 years to try and get ahead. The ATO took more than their fair share which I expected it to come back to me in one way or another. It used to be some minority group or general layabouts that got given my tax dollars. Now that everyone (well, nearly everyone) has been given their Rudd money (equates to 30 pieces of silver really) it is hard to find a sympathetic ear. Nero fiddled whilst Rome burned.


----------



## GumbyLearner (13 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> I used to complain about the "handout welfare system" that we members of Banana Republic Land have become so used to. There I was working 14 hour days, 7 days a week for 11 years to try and get ahead. The ATO took more than their fair share which I expected it to come back to me in one way or another. It used to be some minority group or general layabouts that got given my tax dollars. Now that everyone (well, nearly everyone) has been given their Rudd money (equates to 30 pieces of silver really) it is hard to find a sympathetic ear. Nero fiddled whilst Rome burned.




I'm totally sympathetic to your efforts trainspotter.
What I would like to know is how many "bottom of the harbour schemes" that you through YOUR efforts have kept afloat?


----------



## trainspotter (13 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Gumby, are you suggesting that I would attempt to minimise my taxable income by "bottom of the harbour schemes"? Or are you suggesting by being dilligent, hardworking and making sure that the ATO received the correct amount that is required under the law that I have somehow managed to remain afloat whilst this current government is doing it's best to spend it as quickly as an Israeli in a bomb shop?


----------



## Calliope (14 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Buckeroo said:


> But isn't karma great
> 
> Cheers




Do you mean we got what we deserved?


----------



## Calliope (14 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

If it wasn't serious it would be amusing. When the chips are down Mr Rudd's special relationship with China and his fluent Mandarin count for nothing.

The Chinese have a way of bringing over-confident, big-noting clowns who get too big for their boots down to earth.

In the meantime Mr Hu pays the price for Rudd's arrogance.


----------



## Timmy (14 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Do you mean we got what we deserved?




Hu got what we deserved?


----------



## Buckeroo (14 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Do you mean we got what we deserved?




Not sure I would put it that way Calliope, more that if you have the cake & eat it too, you will eventually have to pay for it...can't escape it, its karma (like balancing an equation).

So, karma's great because its predictable, although most can't see it.

Cheers


----------



## MrBurns (14 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> If it wasn't serious it would be amusing. When the chips are down Mr Rudd's special relationship with China and his fluent Mandarin count for nothing.
> 
> The Chinese have a way of bringing over-confident, big-noting clowns who get too big for their boots down to earth.
> 
> In the meantime Mr Hu pays the price for Rudd's arrogance.




We know he's a tosser so I presume they do too, what's tosser in Mandarin ? so we can listen for it when he's grandstanding with them on the news.


----------



## Quincy (14 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> We know he's a tosser so I presume they do too, what's tosser in Mandarin ? so we can listen for it when he's grandstanding with them on the news.




傻瓜

http://au.babelfish.yahoo.com/


----------



## Buddy (14 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Calliope: Who got what we deserved?
Mr Burns: Hu.
Calliope: I just said that.


----------



## Calliope (14 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Buddy said:


> Calliope: Who got what we deserved?
> Mr Burns: Hu.
> Calliope: I just said that.




Hu is on first base?


----------



## Buddy (14 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Hu is on first base?




I say Who's on first, What's on second, I Don't Know's on third but it could be krudd.


----------



## Calliope (14 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Smith and Krudd...Comedy Duo


----------



## trainspotter (14 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Massive apology to Abbott and Costello. Taken from the 1945 movie "The Naughty Nineties" Or is it the Federal Member for Warringah and The Honorable Member for Higgins (recently retired) performing a much better vaudeville act?

Naaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh ... it's KRUDDSPEAK at it's finest. Let's see this Mandarin speaking felcher of a PM get out of this one.


----------



## Calliope (15 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

There is still some life in the old classic.


----------



## Buckeroo (15 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



> Howard agreement 'limits Rudd access to Hu'
> 
> AAP
> 
> ...




Krudds at it again - now the Hu problem is all Howards fault - typical! (news.com.au)

Cheers


----------



## trainspotter (15 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Words fail me.


----------



## matty2.0 (15 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Buddy said:


> Calliope: Who got what we deserved?
> Mr Burns: Hu.
> Calliope: I just said that.




Whoooooo .... are you ... who Hu? ... who Hu? ...


----------



## trainspotter (15 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Isn't that the noise an owl makes?


----------



## MrBurns (15 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Buckeroo said:


> Krudds at it again - now the Hu problem is all Howards fault - typical! (news.com.au)
> 
> Cheers




He really is piss weak isnt he.


----------



## trainspotter (15 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Canberra, July 15 (ANI): Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has blamed an agreement reached by former PM John Howard and the Chinese government for limiting his government’s access to Rio Tinto’s detained GM, Stern Hu. 

“I note the consular agreement, which we inherited from the previous Australian government, limits the demands we can make on the Chinese authorities for consular access. For instance, it only entitles the government to have access to Mr Hu once a month,” news.co.au quoted Rudd, as saying.

He added that Hu had spent much of the past two days in “extensive briefings” with senior government officials and the acting Foreign Minister, John Faulkner.

Rudd confirmed the Government had not received a direct briefing from the Chinese on why Hu had been detained.

“We can simply go to the basis of their public statements … namely that the Chinese have indicated in their public statements that while he has not been charged they have indicated that he is being investigated on suspicion of espionage and stealing state secrets,” he said.

If they can only access him for "once a month" why have they been in talks with Hu for the last TWO days?


----------



## noirua (16 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Unfortunately Kevin Rudd is wrong in saying the whole world is watching events in China, concerning RIO execs. Hardly a comment in the UK (page 29, London Evening Standard, a few words halfway down). Nothing at all in Canada.
Seems to be considered not much and unless KR bombs China there's no interest, so far.

I suppose Kevin Rudd could call in favours from the summit, who knows. Not worth it really.


----------



## Calliope (16 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Rudd talks tough to China at last;

"We're watching you China and so is everyone else. So you better behave or we and our mates will sort you out. And not only that...we will start making our own clothes, toys and electronic goods.  And if you think we are bluffing; read our Defence White Paper. So there.


----------



## haunting (16 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> Canberra, July 15 (ANI): Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has blamed an agreement reached by former PM John Howard and the Chinese government for limiting his government’s access to Rio Tinto’s detained GM, Stern Hu.
> 
> “I note the consular agreement, which we inherited from the previous Australian government, limits the demands we can make on the Chinese authorities for consular access. For instance, it only entitles the government to have access to Mr Hu once a month,” news.co.au quoted Rudd, as saying.
> 
> ...




** this shows Krudd has lost his close rapport with the Chinese leadership, and that the Chinese leadership is clearly rubbing his face to the ground. At better time, he would be able to pick up the phone and get direct access to someone higher up than just some very low level consular staff. Right now, he is getting no where and to make matter worse he is still posturing as a tough guy by making all these public statements infuriating the Chinese further. It is not going to help bring Stern Hu back to Australia as out front the Chinese has cautioned the Australian govt not to politicise this matter as they see it as an internal corruption investigation.


----------



## kincella (16 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

obviously the chinese are not as stupid as the stupid 'orstralyon' voters.....before the election the weasel was saying he could speak mandarin and had a special relationship with the chinese....
it was bs again nothing else...apart from who cares if he speaks mandarins...

so the chinese have called his bluff...he had no special relationship with them....he was running around grovelling after them, every chance he got...and they basically ignored him....
then he came up with that defence plan...to protect us against the chinese....
is that really how he believes you make friends and influence people....specially so...when its your biggest customer.....?????
the labor party are the biggest con artists, imbeciles and  (enter your own version here)...........to have gained power in this country

oh and all those jobs.....the money is only going to marginal labor electorates, no research to determine if jobs can be created has been done....the money is not going to where its needed.....
its only going to marginal electorates to buy more votes.....
oh and as far as those popular votes for the krudd come from......I dont believe it....I would like to see a poll done this site....no multiple votes allowed....


----------



## Calliope (16 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

It is bad luck for Mr Hu that he has to be the pawn in this affair, but if it helps to bring down Kevin Rudd then his role will not be in vain.

This pompous clown has managed to hoodwink most Australians and most left leaning world leaders that he is an important figure on the world stage. As far as the Chinese are concerned he is just a jumped-up nobody who got to where he is by actually doing nothing.

The Chinese may have been amused at first by his pretentious antics, but now they will swat him like a troublesome blowfly.


----------



## sptrawler (16 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Kev 07 at it again blaming someone else for his inadequacies. Can someone tell me how many of his election promises he has kept. Peter Garret should join the circus, the way he backflips. Also maybe one of my learned friends on the forum could correct me, but isn't there already a fibre optic cable around Australia that Telstra put in during the late 80's.


----------



## Gamblor (16 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

As if ranting on the news and calling the Chinese leader is going to change anyting in this matter. China were insulted, or feel they were insulted - anyone that thinks this will blow over with a phone call is a fool.

There is no relationship that is more important than the Chinese saving face.


----------



## kincella (16 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I can think of one place that jet setting weasel will not go to anytime soon.....China....
and anyone notice he was unavailable...took time off...on holidays....so he could hide for awhile....and since this matter is so unimportant to him....there are about 4 different ministeries who will be acting as the foreign affairs minister for the next couple of weeks....while each one takes a turn to cover for another...who will take holidays in turn......
the Chinese must be amused....or humiliated by the antics of this govt....

the only good thing I can think of at the moment is they are all taking a break...I dont have to listen to them ranting on about nothing....or Howard...

my god, China is our biggest customer.....where will they sell all our resources to if this thing turns really hostile.....oh well Brazil can sell to China...
we will be left with ????? who.......oh and swans budget is reliant on China to keep on buying as usual.....huge problems can arise here....and our ministers do not deem it significant enough to go and talk to them....

ps I agree with the Chinese on this......why should Rio and BHP jack up the prices 50-60% to their main client....probably their only big client....what about some loyalty to their clients...if you want to keep them around for years....
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


----------



## rederob (16 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



kincella said:


> I can think of one place that jet setting weasel will not go to anytime soon.....China



You are right: He's been there already and other nations are on his agenda before a return trip.
Unlike the upstart Opposition members that have repeatedly tried their megaphone humiliation of the Chinese over the Hu matter, Rudd has taken a considered and measured approach.
Bishop is of the view that people like Hu deserve "special" treatment; treatment that would not be graced on you or me as mere mortals.
Why so?
In the eyes of the Chinese Hu has ratted on his own countrymen (citizenship issues to one side) by obtaining information  - through whatever means - that affects China's economic well being.  Prima facie things do not look good for Hu.
If Hu had bribed some petty clothing manufacturer because his employer was Quirky Shirts rather than Rio, do you think Bishop would be pushing the PM to intervene?  Hardly!
Rudd is aware of what it takes to do business in China: As nice a man as Hu may be, there is a chance that the way he went about his negotiations for Rio will provide the Chinese investigators with rather damning evidence.  It would be folly for Rudd to go to bat for a corporate giant that has commercially screwed the Chinese and is proven to have indulged in unscrupulous means to do so.
Deep down even the weasels that rail against Rudd in this thread know that this is a case of softly softly catchee monkey.  Were it not, then Turnbull would have tried to do Rudd like a dog's dinner.


----------



## trainspotter (16 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Methinks Turnbull is a bit gun shy at the moment and is letting his posse of outlaws do the dirty work on this one. Saddle up pardner, the Chinese are at the gate. And Hu is with them.


----------



## Calliope (16 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



rederob said:


> Rudd has taken a considered and measured approach.




Rubbish. He is way out of his depth, and hoping it will all go away.


----------



## noco (16 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



rederob said:


> You are right: He's been there already and other nations are on his agenda before a return trip.
> Unlike the upstart Opposition members that have repeatedly tried their megaphone humiliation of the Chinese over the Hu matter, Rudd has taken a considered and measured approach.
> Bishop is of the view that people like Hu deserve "special" treatment; treatment that would not be graced on you or me as mere mortals.
> Why so?
> ...




Hello, Rederob you're becoming like a parrott, the goose has taught you how to say megaphone.


----------



## rederob (16 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noco said:


> Hello, Rederob you're becoming like a parrott, the goose has taught you how to say megaphone.



Please pm your personal comments and save the thread for posts on topic.

As shown in regular polls, Rudd retains a honeymoonesque level of confidence among the voting populace.  

The media are beating the bushes (check the word of the day thread for its French equivalence) to flush out Rudd on the Hu affair, but he has already worked out the highest probability outcomes, and none involve his direct (public) intervention.

The stark reality about the Hu affair is that the more anybody in Australia wants to push it, the less likely the Chinese are to reach an accommodation.  And Rudd knows that the less he says, despite what the media wants to stir, the better.  Instead he is happy to let the relatively inexperienced but nevertheless flawlessly competent Stephen Smith take the running.


----------



## trainspotter (16 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Adieu ...  rederob adieu .... but unintelligently the media pack is starting to bay for blood and they are hungry for a carcass to chew on.  Krudds lack of response despite his high prose of Mandarin speaking and Chinese Diplomatic links is growing tired amongst the proletariat. We as the oppposition also voice our opinions in this matter. We grow restless on the empty promises and unlike a good Catholic, I no longer feeel the guilt. Either let China CHARGE Hu with espionage or let him go. Iron ore or not. It has now become political. Gloves are off. Either we are selling to China Iron Ore or we simply waiting for a sincere diplomat to break our trade agreement?


----------



## Calliope (17 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



rederob said:


> Instead he is happy to let the relatively inexperienced but nevertheless flawlessly competent Stephen Smith take the running.




Competent, maybe. Flawless, I doubt. That would put him up there with you and 2020, who, as far as I know never get it wrong. I don't think Smith can claim that sort of superior status yet.

Smith has the problem that he is Foreign Minister in name only. Before he opens his mouth he has to clear it with the PM's office. Thus he uses phrases such as;

We are dealing with it methodically, and

We are taking it step by step.

This is typical Ruddspeak for;* I haven't got a clue*


----------



## Buddy (17 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Rudd talks tough to China at last;
> 
> "We're watching you China and so is everyone else. So you better behave or we and our mates will sort you out. And not only that...we will start making our own clothes, toys and electronic goods.  And if you think we are bluffing; read our Defence White Paper. So there.




Oooowhoooohuuu. I leally scared of you missa ludd.


----------



## trainspotter (17 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

"Release Hu or we will be forced to let you buy your iron ore from Brazil" Mr Rudd throws down the gauntlet to the yellow peril Commies. "Which is cheaper but slightly lesser quality." Mr Rudd thundered "What's that? You don't care because what you make out of our iron ore is already substandard quality" Mr Rudd went on the attack "Oh ... I see, you already have enough stock piled for the next 10 years of production." Mr Rudd was last seen looking for a Bex and a good lie down to fix this international scandal.


----------



## Macquack (17 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Rubbish. He is way out of his depth, and hoping it will all go away.




OK Calliope, you bag Rudd if he does nothing, and you bag him if does something.

So what do you suggest Rudd do in this situation?


----------



## Calliope (17 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Macquack said:


> OK Calliope, you bag Rudd if he does nothing, and you bag him if does something.
> 
> So what do you suggest Rudd do in this situation?




To be honest ducky, i think he is at his best when he does nothing. Less collateral damage to the taxpayer.


----------



## Julia (17 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Macquack said:


> OK Calliope, you bag Rudd if he does nothing, and you bag him if does something.
> 
> So what do you suggest Rudd do in this situation?



What, actually, has he done in this situation?   

If I were Mr Hu, I don't think I'd be feeling terribly reassured.


----------



## trainspotter (17 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

China has released a press statement "Canberra needs to stay out of our judicial Sovereignty as it will damage the Sino-Australian agreement"

Hmmmm .... sabre rattling at it's best. China needs our iron ore and we need their business. All will be forgotten soon. Hu?


----------



## Macquack (18 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> To be honest ducky, i think he is at his best when he does nothing. Less collateral damage to the taxpayer.



I agree, this is the best course of action.



Julia said:


> What, actually, has he done in this situation?
> 
> If I were Mr Hu, I don't think I'd be feeling terribly reassured.




Stern Hu is a dual national. The Chinese government are treating him as one of their own, as they should.

Hu is a "ring in", his allegiance to Australia is *zero, zip, zilch*.


----------



## kincella (18 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

apparently the pm is now blogging....good luck...some suggest only those blogs sucking up to him and agree with him on climate change will get past the mods...lets know how you go..and good luck.....I would like to give him a piece of my mind....and then wait for him to blow his stack....hahahahaha...


----------



## Stan 101 (18 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

What is the Oz government supposed to be doing right now? Hu has been accused of a crime and the Chinese authorities are investigating whether charges can be laid.

I wonder what Dr Haneef thinks of all this?


----------



## Calliope (18 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Stan 101 said:


> What is the Oz government supposed to be doing right now? Hu has been accused of a crime and the Chinese authorities are investigating whether charges can be laid.
> 
> I wonder what Dr Haneef thinks of all this?




Yes. Imagine if he had been caught in China and had a cousin who was a Uighar.


----------



## Calliope (18 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Mr Hu's unwitting sacrifice has been a great service to his adopted country. It took the Chinese to expose to us all the flaws in Rudd that the majority of Australians have been blind to. 

The Chinese are a pragmatic people and they have never been fooled by the pretentious Mandarin speaking Rudd. While we all thought he had a special relationship with China, and knew how to handle them, the truth is somewhat different.

They find his aspirations for world leadership on various issues, including an Asian Union to be amusing. He has now been brought to heel. China has all the cards and we have become a vassal state. The future of our economy is wholly dependent on a strong Chinese economy. They have alternatives for supply of coal and iron. We don't have alternative markets.

When they tell Rudd to shut up...he shuts up.


----------



## Calliope (19 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Rudd's missus says she has never heard him raise his voice to the kids. I can understand that. Rudd is a nagger. A nagger can wear a kid down much more affectively than a yeller.


----------



## Stan 101 (19 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Mr Hu's unwitting sacrifice has been a great service to his adopted country. It took the Chinese to expose to us all the flaws in Rudd that the majority of Australians have been blind to.
> 
> The Chinese are a pragmatic people and they have never been fooled by the pretentious Mandarin speaking Rudd. While we all thought he had a special relationship with China, and knew how to handle them, the truth is somewhat different.
> 
> ...




Why you are refusing the nation of your wise council is something only you can know. You are wasted here on this forum. You have it all under control and no doubt would be pushing our iron to all areas of the globe including Antartica.

Even as a minnow of a nation we should take no crap as we are, after all, the centre of commerce.

I wish you could have had a word in "pig iron Bob's" ear all those years ago. What was he thinking?


cheers,


----------



## trainspotter (19 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Rudd's missus says she has never heard him raise his voice to the kids. I can understand that. Rudd is a nagger. A nagger can wear a kid down much more affectively than a yeller.




As I was having a cup of tea and a scone with Therese Rein the other day she suddenly blurted out "I call Kevin FOUR horses" ... "Really", I said quite startled by this sudden outburst that almost caused me to spill my Twinings down the front of my best blue blazer. "Why pray tell do you call your husband FOUR horses?"

"Well, all he does is  ... NAG, NAG, NAG, NAG!"


----------



## Calliope (19 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Originally Posted by* Stan 101
*


> Why you are refusing the nation of your wise council is something only you can know. You are wasted here on this forum




Not wise council, just common sense.



> You have it all under control and no doubt would be pushing our iron to all areas of the globe including Antartica.




How do you draw this inference?



> Even as a minnow of a nation we should take no crap as we are, after all, the centre of commerce.




I don't think you are that naive.




> I wish you could have had a word in "pig iron Bob's" ear all those years ago. What was he thinking?




What are *you *thinking? Your analogy eludes me.


----------



## rederob (19 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Yet again the Rudd haters have misjudged his adeptness in foreign affairs.
Hu's fate may be reported somewhere in the media, but after looking in the Sunday Mail it is likely to be difficult to find in the News camp.
Not even the Opposition have been in play on this matter in recent days, so low is it on the political radar.
It just goes to show the Opposition to be hacks, flakes and also rans.
Sadly it took another bombing in Indonesia has put Rudd and his flawlessly competent Foreign Minister in the spotlight.  This tragedy shows the sensitivity and ease in which Rudd handles adversity, ably backed up by Stephen Smith.
Rudd is truly inspirational when it counts.


----------



## 2020hindsight (19 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Macquack said:


> 1. I agree, this is the best course of action. [ to do nothing]
> 
> 2. Stern Hu is a dual national.
> 3. The Chinese government are treating him as one of their own, ..
> ...



howdy MacQ
the following revolves around an attempt to work out how long he's been in Aus...
1. I'm inclined to agree with you - or at least I'm not gonna rush in where an  experienced diplomat would fear treading

2. true - which means he's been in Aus at least approx 8 years, 5 years for permanent visa, 2 years for apply for citizenship, 6mths to 1 yr to pass - I'm guessing since about 1993 - anyone know?  The article below says he's been with Rio since mid 90's.

3. probably true - that they are treating him as one of their own (rightly or otherwise by international law)

4. disagree (not that I'd know) and 
5. disagree again.  - If he's been here since early 90's (to be confirmed - possibly longer? anyone know?), and has worked hard for Rio since, then he gets our backing surely. 
cheers. 2020

PS - hey, if there are specific corruption charges in the wings, then all bets are off.   Let's face it , the courts in Aus are a joke - ... and China is ten times worse. 

PS As Harrison Ford says in a movie (forget which) "You want justice, go to a wh-ore-house;  you want to get screwed, go to court".  Still that was USA, we're much better here (yeah right lol)

XXXX bludy hell it was Richard Gere "Primal Fear " as best I now recall 


http://business.watoday.com.au/business/who-is-hu-a-man-of-integrity-20090710-df36.html


> Who is Hu? A man of integrityJohn Garnaut
> July 9, 2009
> A year ago, after Stern Hu had survived 20-odd rounds of negotiations and won Rio Tinto and Australia an extraordinary 87 per cent price increase for its iron ore contracts, I asked him if he was being too aggressive.
> 
> ...



...mmm sounds like that is wrong


> ... Rio recognised these talents and appointed him to manage their Beijing sales operations in the mid-1990s and then transferred him to the sales hub, Shanghai, in 2001.
> 
> .....
> Mr Hu grew up in Tianjin and met his wife at the prestigious Peking University.
> ...




 PS thanks god for the fact that Smith is Foreign Minister, and we don't have to listen to someone like Downer at a time like this.


----------



## MrBurns (19 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



rederob said:


> Yet again the Rudd haters have misjudged his adeptness in foreign affairs.
> Hu's fate may be reported somewhere in the media, but after looking in the Sunday Mail it is likely to be difficult to find in the News camp.
> Not even the Opposition have been in play on this matter in recent days, so low is it on the political radar.
> It just goes to show the Opposition to be hacks, flakes and also rans.
> ...




I've never read so much absolute crap crammed into a few sentences in my entire life.

Rudd is a weakling of monumental proportions and Stephen Smith looks as incompetent as he no doubt is.


----------



## 2020hindsight (19 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> I've never read so much absolute crap crammed into a few sentences in my entire life.
> 
> Rudd is a weakling of monumental proportions and Stephen Smith looks as incompetent as he no doubt is.



That's what we enjoy about your posts burnsey, they are so predicable, and so informative lol.


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (19 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



rederob said:


> Yet again the Rudd haters have misjudged his adeptness in foreign affairs.
> Hu's fate may be reported somewhere in the media, but after looking in the Sunday Mail it is likely to be difficult to find in the News camp.
> Not even the Opposition have been in play on this matter in recent days, so low is it on the political radar.
> It just goes to show the Opposition to be hacks, flakes and also rans.
> ...



Red, isn't Rudd the foreign Minister?


----------



## 2020hindsight (19 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I understand we're sending an international delegation, including Mel Watt and Peter Weir to meet with Wen Jiabao and Hu Jintao 
... basically to advance the matter 

Headlines...
*"Hu Watt Wen and Weir meet in China to discuss what to do with Hu".*

(or is that whom?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hu_Jintao
http://kyluka.com/briefing/Mel_Watt_Politician
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wen_Jiabao
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Weir_(politician)

*"Hu Watt Wen and Weir discuss what Hu does with Hu".*:eek3:


----------



## makingmoney (19 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Well i usally /ignore funny posts here cause im really here for trade chat..but kevin rudd<<-------lmao...he inspires sheep....welcome 2 the matrix..but he dosen't inspire me..nor do any of the politicians..he might be able 2 speak mandarin/might be smart/seems like a nice bloke...but really simple job here for any leader is 2 muster the sheep(chaos theory)..stablise and comfort all the people who need comfort and rely on the matrix..but really when i seen there first stimulas package of 45billion and just handed out..instead of spent on infracture 2 create jobs..lol..i lost all respect 4 this goverment..and maybe the govement should read up on hyperflation RE:Germany post war 1919..how u flood money into the economy..i could go on all day..but plz y couldnt kevin rudd wifes run the country.(at least she can run a succesful company.)


----------



## rederob (19 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> I've never read so much absolute crap crammed into a few sentences in my entire life.



You need to re-read your posts to gain a proper perspective.


----------



## pacestick (19 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Does Rudd inspire confidence more than ever judging by opinion polls and the bitter twisted posts of those who cant stand the thought of a non coalition PM


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (19 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



pacestick said:


> Does Rudd inspire confidence more than ever judging by *opinion polls* and the bitter twisted posts of those who cant stand the thought of a non coalition PM



Actually I would like to see a prediction market run on the two parties and see what really would eventuate from it. You might be surprised.


----------



## MrBurns (19 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



pacestick said:


> Does Rudd inspire confidence more than ever judging by opinion polls and the bitter twisted posts of those who cant stand the thought of a non coalition PM




I quite liked Kim Beasley but they backstabbed him out didnt they.

In fact of all the labor leaders I put Rudd last, he's done nothing except spend up big on our account to buy his own popularity and dont worry about the polls they'll change when he runs out of our money to spend.


----------



## Macquack (19 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> I've never read so much absolute crap crammed into a few sentences in my entire life.




Take some time out to read your own posts, Burns. 

Rederob is running rings around you and your only come backs are that Rudd is a gay, poof, faggot, homo, girlie boy etc.


----------



## Calliope (19 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



rederob said:


> Sadly it took another bombing in Indonesia has put Rudd and his flawlessly competent Foreign Minister in the spotlight.  This tragedy shows the sensitivity and ease in which Rudd handles adversity, ably backed up by Stephen Smith.
> Rudd is truly inspirational when it counts.




Your devotion to Rudd and Smith is touching. However,  I happened to listen to  the flawlessly competently Mr Smith on Offsiders this morning. It was a cliche ridden non-event that  outdid even Rudd for saying nothing. But then he has the excuse that he knows nothing. That's not his fault. Rudd keeps him in the dark. Actually both are floundering on the Hu affair. China told them to butt out. They now have to attempt to appear wise by saying nothing.

Sensitivity and ease. Cliches roll off their tongues with ease but they were sensitive about three Australians killed in Jakarta and one in Afghanistan, when on cue, they adopt their funereal tones.

Smith does have some ability. He cleverly adopts Ruddspeak so that we will know that they are Rudd's words and not his.

If you doubt me, I suggest you have a rerun of Offsiders and count the hackneyed phrases. I gave up counting after 20 and that didn't include the same ones repeated.


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (19 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



rederob said:


> Hardly!
> I don't think the Opposition has led on a 2 party preferred basis for a very long time.
> You might need to see somebody about your condition.
> MrBurns has been recommended as the "right" surgeon of choice for myopia.
> Calliope is offering free counselling and trainspotter will guarantee any malpractice claim as ride to early retirement.



Now red you are overreacting in this case. 

In your failed assessment of my comments you have emotionally taken the party line and felt the need to deride the real message. 

Opinion polls only are no guide. (unqualified, rash and manipulated opinions dominate)

A prediction market is a better tool for gaining insight into a topic. (investment like decisions are made)

I subtly suggested that a prediction market may surprise and be different to an opinion poll. 

I don't believe in the two parties. 

And you have exposed yourself as a fool. What else would you like on the platter?


----------



## 2020hindsight (19 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



It's Snake Pliskin said:


> Opinion polls only are no guide. (unqualified, rash and manipulated opinions dominate)
> 
> A prediction market is a better tool for gaining insight into a topic. (investment like decisions are made)
> 
> I subtly suggested that a prediction market may surprise and be different to an opinion poll.




Snake
I'm guessing you're still living overseas somewhere (?) - maybe getting your opinions at the local Waltzing Matilda Bar?  (or some other school for qualified, non-rash, and un-manipulated opinions).


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (19 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



2020hindsight said:


> Snake
> I'm guessing you're still living oversea somewhere (?) - maybe getting your opinions at the local Waltzing Matilda Bar?



What's with the personal attack?


----------



## 2020hindsight (19 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



It's Snake Pliskin said:


> What's with the personal attack?



I would have thought it was relevant.  The popularity of Rudd is gonna be difficult to judge from Overseas, hai, m'hai?



> Actually I would like to see a prediction market run on the two parties and see what really would eventuate from it. You might be surprised



to be fair, .... true , we might be surprised, 
 on the other hand we might not I guess.


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (19 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



2020hindsight said:


> I would have thought it was relevant.  The popularity of Rudd is gonna be difficult to judge from Overseas, hai, m'hai?
> 
> to be fair, .... true , we might be surprised,
> on the other hand we might not I guess.



Let's talk about the topic and leave personal attacks out.


----------



## MrBurns (19 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Macquack said:


> Take some time out to read your own posts, Burns.
> 
> Rederob is running rings around you and your only come backs are that Rudd is a gay, poof, faggot, homo, girlie boy etc.







> Rederob is running rings around you




Running rings around me ????? geez you must live in a small world - as if I'd care enough to even notice what he says - Oh I'm shattered ROFL you are a goose no doubt about it 

As far as your comments on Rudd go I didnt mention any of those but nice of you to point them out and add to his general description, all very accurate too.


----------



## Timmy (19 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



2020hindsight said:


> to be fair, .... true , we might be surprised,
> on the other hand we might not I guess.




It is really not that hard.  Source: http://www.way2bet.com.au/odds_comparison/18031/19810/42292/Australian+Federal+Election+-+2010-2011


----------



## Macquack (19 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> .....you are a goose no doubt about it:




I thought you agreed to lose the personal insults,


----------



## 2020hindsight (19 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Timmy said:


> It is really not that hard.



yep spot on Timmy  
follow the big money.

Lab 1.50
Coalition 2.65
Any Other Party 2.75 

PS Who is the "Other Party" with similar odds to the Coalition??
Family First maybe? 
Fishing Party?
What Women Want?

weird.


----------



## Timmy (19 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Enough of the personal abuse.

Not going to single anyone out.

Go and have a cup of tea you lot, chill out.


----------



## trainspotter (19 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Thanks for the opening on this one rederob. Here I was lurking in the background and you go and drag me in it.

_"Calliope is offering free counselling and trainspotter will guarantee any malpractice claim as ride to early retirement."_

The Libs are in a world of pain at the moment and require a shot in the arm of testosterone to grow some hair on their balls.  Current style of opposition is certainly not doing them any favours in the opinion polls. On the other hand our Mandarin speaking pontificating PM is politely having his nose rubbed in a giant pile of iron ore. Kruddy had to go snivelling cap in hand to the good 'ol U.S.A who waded into this debate under the terms "humanitarian rights". China warned Rudd 747 to not turn this into a political football. Too late.

My point being the PM has now been shown up for what he is. A 5% at best. The media hungry PIE FACE PM has had a very looooong honeymoon period with the good citizens of Banana Republic Land but it won't be long before the music stops and there will not be enough chairs to sit on. Then and only then will this "spending like a drunken sailor" boot licking zealot be thrown out of office enmasse and be replaced with a Coalition that will have to take control of the good ship "Credit Card" . Just like last time. The debt truck will be running around every roundabout in Canberra getting dizzy.


----------



## Stan 101 (19 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Not wise council, just common sense.




If what you mentioned in the previous post was true, I'd certainly call it wise council. It seems you know things privvy only to the Chinese. Here is an example: 
_"The Chinese are a pragmatic people and they have never been fooled by the pretentious Mandarin speaking Rudd."_ (post 374)
Did you poll, lobby or infiltrate the Chinese to get this nugget of intel or have you simply assumed it and written it as *fact*? Could you offer solid data (as opposed to your own heresay) to justify this conclusion of yours?




> How do you draw this inference?




Here is your quote I was referring to: *"They have alternatives for supply of coal and iron. We don't have alternative markets."*
It seems you were criticising the current government on selling vast quantities of ore to China. From my recollections this was the case at the time of the previous government, too. 
We also do have other markets to sell ore to. I'll leave you to do a little research on this, though becuase I like you and it is the only way you will learn the truth.

So yes I was being a little tongue in cheek and expelled a little urine from you. I figured one outrageously exaggerated (yours) post deserves another (mine). And again I forgot my smiley face. Live and learn. Oh well.




> I don't think you are that naive.



I'm not, but that was sweet to say. Thank you.
But again I may have exaggerated slightly as I was inspired by your post; Specifically this piece of literary gold. *"When they tell Rudd to shut up...he shuts up."[/I*_]

Now I'm not doubting your insight into world economics but I have been involved and seen first hand negotiations for contracts on a multinational level. With limited trading partners, but not as you put it, one trading partner *("We don't have alternative markets.")*, there must be give and take. One must potentially lose a battle to win a war. The old chestnut of "what you lose on the swing you gain on the roundabout" comes to mind.

Now it all seemed fine just a few short quarters ago when our ore suppliers held our trading partners (Note the plural here. More than one!) to ransom with outrageous price increases. That was the "roundabout" part. I'll let you have a little think and see if you can find a "swing part" wi***** trading nations.





			What are *you *thinking? Your analogy eludes me.
		
Click to expand...



Well i'm sorry for you not seeing any synergy here. Think harder and a little more laterally. It will come.

I trust this answers your questions. If not, don't hold out for a more basic expanation. I needed bring in my 13 year old neighbour on this one before posting to make sure she understood. She did.

Cheers,_


----------



## Timmy (19 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Timmy said:


> Enough of the personal abuse.
> 
> Not going to single anyone out.
> 
> Go and have a cup of tea you lot, chill out.






Enough of the provocations.  You guys need to chill out.

No more warnings.

Thread closed until sanity may be able to prevail.


----------



## Timmy (20 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

ASF Code of Conduct

This might help:
Relaxing Music - Soothing Pictures


----------



## trainspotter (20 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

*THE centrepiece of the Federal Government's so-called education revolution may be worse than useless, a visiting American researcher says.*

Before the 2007 election Kevin Rudd vowed to spend $2.3 billion rewarding parents who installed or bought home computers. He later said his decisions would be evidence based.

Jacob Vigdor, of Duke University, North Carolina, has conducted what is probably the world's biggest study on the effect on maths and reading scores of gaining a home computer. He finds "statistically significant" evidence that it sends them backwards.

"Children in homes with computers tend to do better than those in homes without - there's no doubt about that," Professor Vigdor told the Herald.

"But there could be other reasons. Those homes also have a lot of other things other homes don't have, and often have more educated parents."

He examined the performance of students before and after their home gained a computer. This meant examining students from less well-off homes. The better-off ones already had computers.

But Professor Vigdor told a seminar at Australian National University he did not think this was an important limitation.

_Professor Vigdor found that acquiring a computer at home made end-of-year results for year 3 to year 8 students in North Carolina "significantly worse" in reading and maths. These results were spread over five years._

"The bad effects fade somewhat over time, but even after five years they are still negative. I am not saying go out and burn all the computers.

"If you want to buy junior a computer with your own dollars, that's fine … but it's another thing when we talk about spending public dollars."

Righ then ... Maybe it is because North Carollina year 3 to 8 kids are not as bright as the little tackers in Banana Republic Land ? Not only that ... I don't believe that he has implemented the strategy of a computer in every clasroom rhetoric just yet? Good thing on both accounts. Kids aren't being dumbed down and Kevin 747 has not wated taxpayers dollars. All good.


----------



## MrBurns (20 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I've seen no evidence of an "education revolution"

Just more spin from the Labor party, hot air, the reason kids cant read or spell is because of Labor teaching policies, if they really want to help the kids hand education over to the Libs til the next election when the Libs will take everything else over anyway.


----------



## Calliope (20 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Stan 101 said:


> I trust this answers your questions. If not, don't hold out for a more basic expanation. I needed bring in my 13 year old neighbour on this one before posting to make sure she understood. She did.
> 
> Cheers,




A bit long winded, but if it makes you happy, I'm okay with that.

Cheers.


----------



## Calliope (20 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> I've seen no evidence of an "education revolution"
> 
> Just more spin from the Labor party, hot air, the reason kids cant read or spell is because of Labor teaching policies, if they really want to help the kids hand education over to the Libs til the next election when the Libs will take everything else over anyway.




Mr Rudd's $17 billion school building program does nothing to improve education. The reason the schools turn out illiterate children is because the teachers are illiterate and the teachers' teachers are illiterate. Rudd is powerless to turn this around. The unions have too tight a grip on standards.

The Qld teachers are putting on rolling strikes for better pay.  Their catchcry is that they "deserve it"


----------



## MrBurns (20 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Mr Rudd's $17 billion school building program does nothing to improve education. The reason the schools turn out illiterate children is because the teachers are illiterate and the teachers' teachers are illiterate. Rudd is powerless to turn this around. The unions have too tight a grip on standards.
> 
> The Qld teachers are putting on rolling strikes for better pay.  Their catchcry is that they "deserve it"




It's disturbing when you and I and countless others can see the problem but no one will do anything about it.

I agree we are producing a generation of kids with LESS education that you got in the 50's or 60's, oh yes they can turn on a computer or IPhone but they have no idea of how to use the English language to their advantage and can't do basic math in many cases.

It's tragic and there's no excuse in this day and age.

Things should be improving not degrading.


----------



## trainspotter (20 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

PMSL ... my wife is an education specialist. She actually teach's teachers how to become teachers. You know when they have all those "Professional Development" days? Her job is to lecture them on _effective classroom delivery_. Whatever the hell that is? You would have thought with all those years in scholastic development that they would have got all this down pat by now. Let's face it, They went to primary school, then to high school, then to university (big kids school) and then straight back to school to teach. All this time the bell rings and they switch on like robots. They have recess, lunchtime, afternoon recess and DOT time to boot. They still get paid for SCHOOL HOLIDAYS, which effectively is 3 months of the year and work from 9am until 3.15pm. Never worked in the real world. A lot more "perks" go with the job but I will leave that for someone else to point out.

There is no moderation to speak of and you betcha every single one is a UNIONIST. How about we give them an OUTCOME BASED delivery requirement in their employment job description. You teach and you get paid. You produce morons and you don't get paid as much? Your thoughts??


----------



## MrBurns (20 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> PMSL ... my wife is an education specialist. She actually teach's teachers how to become teachers. You know when they have all those "Professional Development" days? Her job is to lecture them on _effective classroom delivery_. Whatever the hell that is? You would have thought with all those years in scholastic development that they would have got all this down pat by now. Let's face it, They went to primary school, then to high school, then to university (big kids school) and then straight back to school to teach. All this time the bell rings and they switch on like robots. They have recess, lunchtime, afternoon recess and DOT time to boot. They still get paid for SCHOOL HOLIDAYS, which effectively is 3 months of the year and work from 9am until 3.15pm. Never worked in the real world. A lot more "perks" go with the job but I will leave that for someone else to point out.
> 
> There is no moderation to speak of and you betcha every single one is a UNIONIST. How about we give them an OUTCOME BASED delivery requirement in their employment job description. You teach and you get paid. You produce morons and you don't get paid as much? Your thoughts??




Teachers are institutionalised to a great extent, if you ever hear them talking shop out of hours it's an eye opener, they have no idea of the real world, they beleive they should get top dollar for doing bugger all and have no idea where the money comes from nor do they care, they are teachers and are special.


----------



## Buckeroo (20 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> PMSL ... my wife is an education specialist. She actually teach's teachers how to become teachers. You know when they have all those "Professional Development" days? Her job is to lecture them on _effective classroom delivery_. Whatever the hell that is?




Ah, Trainspotter, question, who teaches the education specialists in the latest teaching techniques? And there is so much speculation at the moment on what the best techniques are, so are they getting it right?

What I've seen lately, is a lot of kids can't spell & add up without a calculator. I get the paper on Saturdays & its comical watching young people adding $1.50 & $1.20 on a calculator...and they still get it wrong!!

Your right about Teachers though Mr Burns, my sister is one of them & is a member of the big spenders group. Anyway, getting off the thread.

Cheers


----------



## trainspotter (20 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

The orders on "re-education" come from the Dept. heads. I am guessing they would receive their orders from some psychobabble neophyte with too many letters behind his/her/its name proving they are qualified? My wifes job is to deliver it to them (teachers that is) enmasse. In turn it is the teachers job to learn it to the delightful little social misfits who really don't want to be in class because Daddy & Mummy have spoiled them rotten and they all just want to be individuals. We as a society are partly to blame for this.

Anyways .. completely off topic now.


----------



## Calliope (20 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Buckeroo said:


> Your right about Teachers though Mr Burns, my sister is one of them & is a member of the big spenders group. Anyway, getting off the thread.
> 
> Cheers




Yes Buckeroo, we are getting off thread, but not much. Mr Rudd wants the world to recognise Australia as a Middle Power and him as a great leader. No matter what he does on the world stage, if he allows the population to dumb down beyond the tipping point, we will be third rate.

He hasn't inspired much confidence in me that he is even interested.


----------



## trainspotter (20 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Adolf Hitler said: "How fortunate for leaders that men do not think."

I believe Rudd is sporting the same philosphy. Just throwing it out there to be attacked like a hot chip is to a flock of seagulls.


----------



## Julia (20 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> I've seen no evidence of an "education revolution"
> 
> Just more spin from the Labor party, hot air, the reason kids cant read or spell is because of Labor teaching policies, if they really want to help the kids hand education over to the Libs til the next election when the Libs will take everything else over anyway.



That's not fair, Mr Burns.   The Libs had a decade in office and did absolutely nothing to improve education.  Probably it deteriorated under their watch in terms of university funding at least.



Calliope said:


> Mr Rudd's $17 billion school building program does nothing to improve education. The reason the schools turn out illiterate children is because the teachers are illiterate and the teachers' teachers are illiterate. Rudd is powerless to turn this around. The unions have too tight a grip on standards.
> 
> The Qld teachers are putting on rolling strikes for better pay.  Their catchcry is that they "deserve it"



I don't know what new teachers earn, but a friend of mine has been teaching for 30 years and earns arond $80K.  Doesn't seem too bad to me.


----------



## MrBurns (20 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> That's not fair, Mr Burns.   The Libs had a decade in office and did absolutely nothing to improve education.  Probably it deteriorated under their watch in terms of university funding at least.




I'll tell you what's not fair Julia and that's passing the buck while our kids are educated negligently, just get on with it , I dont give a rats about the past, I can spell and add up and I was educated while the Libs were in.


----------



## Buckeroo (20 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> That's not fair, Mr Burns.   The Libs had a decade in office and did absolutely nothing to improve education.  Probably it deteriorated under their watch in terms of university funding at least.




I'll have to counter this Julia - I think they did a lot for the country concerning education.

The first phase of their education revolution, (and labor thought they had invented this term!) they removed the noose around the taxpayers neck to ensure that people who could afford paying extra, payed extra through private schooling. Notice how Labor is keeping the status quo? I wonder why?

Their second phase was to make Universities become world class. They did this by getting them to rely on overseas students for some of their funding. How best to get the best from our universities when they have to compete for funding with overseas universities.

The last phase which never happened, was to make all schools provide performance information to parents & the wider community.

Cheers


----------



## trainspotter (20 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I think when I went to school that I had a mixture of Liberal and Labor thrust upon me. I know Labor was in power in the states and the NT (I actually had a job delivering Liberal pamphlets into letterboxes at 10 years of age) and Libs in the Federal position when I was in primary school. I remember Bob Hawke saying "Any boss who sacks a worker for not turning up today is a bum." and I was in high school then. And I turned out alright. As long as I keep taking my medication, I am fine. Ohhh yeah, I can read and write, don't need a calculator for maths and have an insatiable thirst for knowledge.


----------



## MrBurns (20 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> I and have an insatiable thirst for knowledge.




Thas because you were so deprived of it at school


----------



## trainspotter (20 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> Thas because you were so deprived of it at school




LOLOLOL ... you could be onto something here Mr Burns. I will have to attempt to navel gaze my scholastic achievements to confirm this outcome based derivative. I have a vague recollection of library mat time in year 3with Mr. Potts reading us "Mulga Bills Bicycle" by Banjo Patterson and I was fascinated by the prose.


----------



## Buckeroo (20 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> I think when I went to school that I had a mixture of Liberal and Labor thrust upon me. I know Labor was in power in the states and the NT (I actually had a job delivering Liberal pamphlets into letterboxes at 10 years of age) and Libs in the Federal position when I was in primary school. I remember Bob Hawke saying "Any boss who sacks a worker for not turning up today is a bum." and I was in high school then. And I turned out alright. As long as I keep taking my medication, I am fine. Ohhh yeah, I can read and write, don't need a calculator for maths and have an insatiable thirst for knowledge.




Yep, prose is not bad, creative writing classes? 

Definitely though, maybe look at the medication - have you tried taking something...less speedy?

Cheers


----------



## trainspotter (20 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Back on topic. Correct me if I am wrong but did Not Kruddy 747 state that "He would bring the boys back home from the war" ?? and now he is stating that his government is "rock solid" behind the war effort.

"This brave Australian soldier has paid the ultimate sacrifice for his country," Mr Rudd said. 

More evidence of a vote of *no confidence* from this quarter.

Before you all jump all over me I recognise that in the first instance he was talking about IRAQ and not Afghanistan. So does this mean one theatre of war is preferred to another?


----------



## noco (20 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> That's not fair, Mr Burns.   The Libs had a decade in office and did absolutely nothing to improve education.  Probably it deteriorated under their watch in terms of university funding at least.
> 
> 
> I don't know what new teachers earn, but a friend of mine has been teaching for 30 years and earns arond $80K.  Doesn't seem too bad to me.




Julia, I believed education was the responsibilty of the states and was to be funded out of the GST which the Labor states obviously misused. They then keep harping on the fact that the Federal Government did not assist them. 

Why do the lefties keep blaming Howard?


----------



## Julia (20 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I'm not sure that it's the funding that's the issue.

Rather the fashions that the education system is forced to endure.

i.e. just one example:   phonetics in teaching reading is now being used again, thank heavens.   This works.

For several years the notion prevailed that actual spelling and grammar were unimportant, as long as the meaning was understandable.  So, instead of learning words on a phonic basis, children were encouraged to 'guess' the word in the "whole language" approach.  It has been a disaster and finally this has been recognised.

Pretty tough on all the people who were poorly taught in the intervening years.


----------



## Knobby22 (21 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> Back on topic. Correct me if I am wrong but did Not Kruddy 747 state that "He would bring the boys back home from the war" ?? and now he is stating that his government is "rock solid" behind the war effort.
> 
> "This brave Australian soldier has paid the ultimate sacrifice for his country," Mr Rudd said.
> 
> ...




You asked to be corrected. He promised withdrawal from Iraq, not Afghanistan.


----------



## trainspotter (21 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

*Thanks Knobby22* Cast your binoculars over my last statement.

*"Before you all jump all over me I recognise that in the first instance he was talking about IRAQ and not Afghanistan. So does this mean one theatre of war is preferred to another?"*


----------



## Buckeroo (21 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> I'm not sure that it's the funding that's the issue.
> 
> Rather the fashions that the education system is forced to endure.
> 
> ...




Spot on here. 

I think there has been a lot of tampering with education without measuring if its effectiveness and even though Howard's Government was reigning at the time, it was the Teachers Union & States that were at the forefront of this.

Again to sort this out, force Schools to openly provide performance information. To me, I don't care what or how they Teach, as long as they produce results - just like private enterprise.

Cheers


----------



## kincella (21 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I like Stephen Smith....he has a good open honest face...his face language and body language is excellent considering he is a polly.....he should be groomed for PM.....he is the opposite to most of the PM and team.....
no matter how hard they try to appear honest or straight....in front of the cameras.....just watch their true self appear in Q & A time in parliament.....the really true feral self appears
or when they are asked a question that requires a truthful answer......

and PS about the education issue....money being thrown at school halls and gyms...even if the school has same....laptops but no money for the internet cost....millions of dollars worth of school plaques.....for Julia's name to be shown on each....
but no education for the children...... and more pay for the teachers....
oh and how long have each state govt, that is in charge of education, been ruled by labor.......is it 20 years or more....about the same time that education has been sliding into an abyss.....
go figure....oh I can understand if you cannot do that


----------



## Calliope (21 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

When is Kevin going to tell us who sent the email?


----------



## Julia (21 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



kincella said:


> I like Stephen Smith....he has a good open honest face...his face language and body language is excellent considering he is a polly.....he should be groomed for PM.....he is the opposite to most of the PM and team.....



I agree.  I like him.  He's calm, reasonable and seems courteous.  Seems to have a reasonable approach to the job.   Lindsay Tanner is similar.






Calliope said:


> When is Kevin going to tell us who sent the email?



Good reminder.  I'd almost forgotten about it.  I think the Attorney-General's report was to be completed by end of this month.  (Or whoever it was that was doing it.)

I wonder if Mr Grech is still on leave?


----------



## kincella (21 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

sorry...but Tanner is not anywhere near the same league.....Tanner makes me nervous with the head wobbling....ask him a question...and like the rest of the team....they will say but Howard had 12 years etc....they dont answer the question...they have  no answer...so they blame everything onto Howard...
now ask Smith a question and he will answer it politely....no barking, or laying the blame....
huge world of difference between the two men
oh and for whatever reason ...I dont trust Tanner....its his face language ....

I am big on reading people....I read their faces, facial expressions or impressions
so far Rudd has at least 20 different faces..for 20 different occasions


----------



## Calliope (21 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> I agree.  I like him.  He's calm, reasonable and seems courteous.  Seems to have a reasonable approach to the job.   Lindsay Tanner is similar.




Stephen Smith seems competent. His problem is that Rudd considers himself to be to expert on Foreign Affairs. So Rudd takes the trips where he can get the kudos and gives Smith the menial jobs, like the trip to Cairo to lobby the non-aligned  countries to vote for Rudd for a seat on the Security Council.

He sent the Governor General to Africa earlier in the year on a similar mission.


----------



## Calliope (21 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> I agree.  I like him.  He's calm, reasonable and seems courteous.  Seems to have a reasonable approach to the job.   Lindsay Tanner is similar.




Stephen Smith seems competent. His problem is that Rudd considers himself to be to expert on Foreign Affairs. So Rudd takes the trips where he can get the kudos and gives Smith the menial jobs, like the trip to Cairo to lobby the non-aligned  countries to vote for Rudd for a seat on the Security Council.

He sent the Governor General to Africa earlier in the year on a similar mission.

Kincella



> I am big on reading people....I read their faces, facial expressions or impressions
> so far Rudd has at least 20 different faces..for 20 different occasions
> _



________

Do you really think so? I thought he had as much expression as his South Park lookalikes, except for his very cold and nasty look when he is asked the wrong question._


----------



## Julia (21 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> ________
> 
> Do you really think so? I thought he had as much expression as his South Park lookalikes, except for his very cold and nasty look when he is asked the wrong question._



Agree.   His face is like a mask most of the time - a good match for the monotone that is his voice.


----------



## trainspotter (21 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I watched Stepehn Smith on a morning program today and I gotta say I was captivated. Like you all say, sincere, to the point, great mannerisms, no shifty face expressions, meaningful dialogue and he attempts to honestly answer the question. Great stuff. If only more pollies were like this we could be on a winner.


----------



## Buckeroo (21 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> When is Kevin going to tell us who sent the email?




Damn good question Calliope - I wonder if the Feds are going to report on their investigations? Anybody know?

And another thing, ol Smithy might be a nice guy and all, but why the hell was the Government so unprepared to handle this latest China crises. He really didn't have a clue - I'm afraid he's as inept as the rest of them. 

Anyway, I don't trust anyone who wears a wig as well as Stephen Smith. Its a cover up of some sort.

Cheers


----------



## MrBurns (21 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Buckeroo said:


> Damn good question Calliope - I wonder if the Feds are going to report on their investigations? Anybody know?
> 
> And another thing, ol Smithy might be a nice guy and all, but why the hell was the Government so unprepared to handle this latest China crises. He really didn't have a clue - I'm afraid he's as inept as the rest of them.
> 
> ...




Stephen Smith doesnt really impress me, there's something fake there.


----------



## Mr J (21 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



kincella said:


> I am big on reading people....I read their faces, facial expressions or impressions
> so far Rudd has at least 20 different faces..for 20 different occasions




I like to observe body language as well, but Rudd strikes me as very stiff with a limited amount of expressions. His expressions are quite wooden and insincere. His comments seem to be rather calculating rather than off the cuff. Fits well with his voice and attitude.


----------



## MrBurns (22 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

The little rat fink knows exactly what he's doing - 

From Crikey - 



> 1 . *Feds build 1000th home in three months... in Rudd’s electorate*
> Editor of the National Indigenous Times Chris Graham writes:
> 
> *As Federal Minister for Housing Jenny Macklin boasts that the Rudd government has just begun construction of its 1000th home under the Rudd government's broader stimulus package, construction has not started on a single home under the Northern Territory Intervention's housing program. *
> ...


----------



## Calliope (22 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> The little rat fink knows exactly what he's doing -
> 
> From Crikey -






> Now, more than two years after the NT intervention was launched, construction hasn't even begun on a single home, the government is facing accusations the program is mired in red tape, and more than $100 million of the program funding has reportedly been set aside for administration




It's not a problem, Burnsie. All Kevvy has to do is say "sorry" again, and all will be forgiven.


----------



## Macquack (22 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> The little *rat fink *knows exactly what he's doing -  -




Rudd must be getting to you Burns, now you are reverting to you childhood looking for new insults.







Rat fink cant be too bad, he drives a ute.


----------



## MrBurns (22 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Macquack said:


> Rudd must be getting to you Burns, now you are reverting to you childhood looking for new insults.




Just demonstrating that insults from all eras apply to the Queen of Spin and he's already greasing the palm of his own electorate at the expense of an Election promise and disadvantaged peoples. 

No insult is low enough to drescribe him.


----------



## Calliope (23 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> Just demonstrating that insults from all eras apply to the Queen of Spin and he's already greasing the palm of his own electorate at the expense of an Election promise and disadvantaged peoples.
> 
> No insult is low enough to drescribe him.




How could anyone trust this man? It's not only Qld cops that are corrupt. Forget about the Strategic Indigenous Housing and Infrastructure Program where up to 70% of allocated public funds are swallowed up in indirect costs. (i.e. ripoffs)

The Australian



> However, it is a different story in Kevin Rudd's Brisbane electorate of Griffiths, where construction this week began on the 1000th home built under the government's $6.4 billion social housing stimulus package.


----------



## MrBurns (23 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

This is from another forum, I presume it's correct and if so more damning evidence against this imposter - 



> I think a pattern is emerging here.
> 
> 2 years into a housing program and no houses are built.
> 
> ...


----------



## kincella (23 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

there are more than that list...but how about this one...that 43 billion for fast broadband.....if the libs or anyone else wants to know the details...it will cost them $24,000 to access the information...heard on the bbc radio today...not sighted in the news by the media....
sounds like a cover up...again...


----------



## Julia (23 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



kincella said:


> there are more than that list...but how about this one...that 43 billion for fast broadband.....if the libs or anyone else wants to know the details...it will cost them $24,000 to access the information...heard on the bbc radio today...not sighted in the news by the media....
> sounds like a cover up...again...



No cover up, kincella.  I heard that on ABC News today.


----------



## trainspotter (23 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I know this has been brought up previously BUT didn't Telstra lay a fibre optic cable ALL the way around Australia already? Not sure if this was answered. Sorry to you if it has but if this cable is already there WHY do we need to spend so much doing it all again?


----------



## Julia (23 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> This is from another forum, I presume it's correct and if so more damning evidence against this imposter -




The list provided here included no housing started in the proposed housing programme, yet Calliope's provided insert asserted that plenty of homes have been built in Mr Rudd's electorate.

Both assertions cannot be right.

None have apparently been built in aboriginal communities where there several families living in each house.
Jenny Macklin assures us, however, that such terrific repairs have been done to existing houses that they are 'like new houses'.  Difficult to see how that counteracts the overcrowding problem.

Re the root and branch tax review not having happened, to be fair this isn't the sort of thing you can do in a week.  Ken Henry is due to produce this at the end of this year, from memory.


----------



## trainspotter (23 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Found this one laying about gathering dust:

Prime Minister promised in 2007 in the lead-up to the election that his party in Government would pay small business invoices within 30 days…When he found out last October that wasn’t happening, he said he’d stop the delays in payment to small business and lead by example…a recent report by Dun & Bradstreet found average public sector payments took 57.8 days in February this year compared with 49.1 days in August 2007, before Mr Rudd became Prime Minister.

Oh oh ... the PM better start printing more money to cover the debts.


----------



## MrBurns (23 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> The list provided here included no housing started in the proposed housing programme, yet Calliope's provided insert asserted that plenty of homes have been built in Mr Rudd's electorate.
> 
> Both assertions cannot be right.




I think the poster there must have meant no building , in fact not one, re the promise to help Aboriginals.

There have been 1000 homes built in Rudds electorate however, thanks to the stimulus package.


----------



## trainspotter (24 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Will the ALP actually do anything during their tenure? So far I have seen a litany of broken election promises and rhetoric. Zero substance. And before you bleat out STIMULUS PACKAGE ... it is my tax payers $$$ that has funded this. This single handed act of drunken sailor spending has cost the country and the people 315 BILLION DOLLARS. Sort of reminds me of the ransom that Dr. Evil would demand. (hold pinky finger to side of mouth when saying it)

*Hospital watch* - Rudd promised to resolve the hospital crisis with the threat of the Feds would take over the hospitals if the states had not improved their hospitals by 30th June 09. D-day has long gone and Rudd has not done anything - no surprises there.

KRuddy 747 is much more focused on jet setting around the world to get a photo shot with some dead celebrity like Michael Jackson, or the worlds biggest ball of string, or to kiss the ring of the Pope or his own appointment to the UN than he is to looking after the Australian economy. Unless you call single handedly swiping the giant "Credit Card" called Australia until the magnetic strip has worn out.

The grocery watch, fuel watch and now hospital watch have all failed - but we all knew that they would as these were Rudd promises!

I had a watch dog once. He would watch the burglars come in and take my stuff and he would watch them leave. Apparently Rudd the Invinsible has begun acting like this as well. The watchers watches watching those.


----------



## Buckeroo (24 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> I think the poster there must have meant no building , in fact not one, re the promise to help Aboriginals.
> 
> There have been 1000 homes built in Rudds electorate however, thanks to the stimulus package.




Just gets better doesn't it?

After reading the Austrailian, found that in an island called Bathurst, 25 houses were recently built (under the management of the ALP) from funds given by the previous Coalition government.

Now get this, eight of these were built by a local company for $350,000 and another company (didn't say who) built the rest for $650,000 each - they were similar houses. Must be building mansions out there!

Cheers


----------



## trainspotter (24 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

SBS News last night. 670 million to build houses in the NT for the aboriginals. Leaked out last night this money is leftover from the Howard Guvt "Intervention Plan". Claims of 70% disappearing in administration. Labor pollie who is in control of this catastrophe (her name escapes me) gets her fat head on TV and claims "Only 10% is administration and we are still in consultation with the people on the best way to spend the money" WTF?

BUILD HOUSES .... BUILD HOUSES .... and Oh I don't know BUILD HOUSES. Have they sent a plethora of architects and design consultants to the NT to ask the Walpiri people if they want double glazing and french doors? Does Sir require his jacuzzi in marble or ceramic? BUILD HOUSES FOR CHRISSAKE ! Concrete tilt up like they did in Darwin after cyclone Tracy. ALL the houses built out of this material are still standing. Cheap, quick to build and INDESTRUCTIBLE (other than really big cyclones) Just get in there with the firehose and clean em out when finished !! No timber to burn or termites to munch on. Can be manufactured off site and transported on trucks. Derrrrrrrrrr.


----------



## MrBurns (24 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Whats starting to really piss me off is we've heard nothing from Turnbull in weeks, we need someone in there who can take this little tosser on, he's ripe for the picking and the Libs don't seem to be able to handle it.


----------



## trainspotter (24 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> Whats starting to really piss me off is we've heard nothing from Turnbull in weeks, we need someone in there who can take this little tosser on, he's ripe for the picking and the Libs don't seem to be able to handle it.




I do believe he is in the panelbeaters shop having a suit of teflon similar to Ruddy's being fitted as we speak. Apparently he had the stuffing knocked out of him after the last bingle. The new suit has inbuilt blow torches and a special button to push in emergencies that will shut his vocal chords off from uttering another word when he gets out of his depth. Not bad eh?


----------



## MrBurns (24 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> I do believe he is in the panelbeaters shop having a suit of teflon similar to Ruddy's being fitted as we speak. Apparently he had the stuffing knocked out of him after the last bingle. The new suit has inbuilt blow torches and a special button to push in emergencies that will shut his vocal chords off from uttering another word when he gets out of his depth. Not bad eh?




He better have something up his sleeve but I bet he hasn't , not enough mongrel in him, we need Howard or Costello on steriods.


----------



## trainspotter (24 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Like all good blue blood Liberal bankers he is not really fit for the job IMO. Look at what Ray Martin did to Dr. John Hewson on a birthday cake question. FAIL. Made him look like a bumbling idiot. John Hewson also self made, merchant banker, bloody clever, ZERO media savvy. Howard had three goes at being P.M. and worked the factions into a frenzy to enable him to do so. 

Labor went through this same carthasis with Beazley, Crean, Latham then Bomber Beazley again. Best free set of steak knives from Kruddy did the number on him on the 4th December 2006.

You are right. We require some free thinking, media aware, eloquently spoken, good looking, teflon coated, Liberal minded, tough as a junk yard dog, iron willed, leader type person. Last time I looked in the Liberal cupboard it was sadly lacking of this kind of person.


----------



## Calliope (24 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter;464866 We require some free thinking said:


> You can't be Liberal minded and tough at the same time. If we are looking for tough Conservatives, then the cupboard is truly bare.
> 
> Rudd has the Liberals by the short and curlies with his wedge politics. He knows that softies like Turnbull, Hockey and now even Abbot, accept his emissions reduction scam while the majority  of the Coalition don't. He has them over a barrel.
> 
> He has to get his double dissolution and go to the polls. After the inevitable Copenhagen fiasco the scam will be exposed . Rudd has to go to the polls early before we wake up and he runs out of money to buy our votes.


----------



## trainspotter (24 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Good point Calliope. Maybe it was just wishful thinking on my behalf. Or maybe we can "create" our ideal leader, sorta like Frankenstein. You know, a piece of Hewsons economic rationale, Howards political savvy, Hockeys media presence, Turnbulls ????? Oh dear .... I got stuck.


----------



## Calliope (24 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

My view is that the Coalition shouldn't allow Rudd to blackmail them into voting for the emmissions trading bill on the threat of a double dissolution.  

Labor will win the next election no matter when it is held. That is a given. The Libs may lose votes but they won't lose any face by showing a bit of guts. 

They say a country gets the government it deserves. Australians deserve another term of Rudd.:


----------



## Buckeroo (24 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> They say a country gets the government it deserves. Australians deserve another term of Rudd.:




There's truth in them words, Calliope.

Only problem is, the 25% of the population who are on to KRudd, are going to get mighty frustrated having to wait another 4 years! We can only hope a revolutionary army is formed so we can join & vent our frustrations.

Cheers


----------



## trainspotter (24 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

THE Federal Opposition says it will pass the emissions trading scheme (ETS) - if certain significant changes are made to it. 
Ending days of confusion about the opposition's policy on emissions trading, Opposition Leader Malcolm Turnbull today released a statement setting out his demands. 

He says he'll seek the support of his own party to pass the scheme in a Senate vote, due on August 13, if the demands are met. 

He wants the Australian scheme to offer the same protection to workers and industries as the US scheme, which is still being written. 

There must be "full compensation" for heavy-polluting, trade exposed countries, until the bulk of their competitors face a similar carbon price. 

Coal mines should get the same assistance as mines in Europe and the US get. 

Agriculture must be excluded from the scheme, but agricultural biosequestration - storing carbon in soils and plants - must be included. 

Electricity generators must get adequate compensation. 

And the scheme must allow for voluntary action to reduce emissions to make a difference. 

 "If the government amends its ETS to put in place these crucial improvements, I will seek, and am confident of obtaining, the support of the coalition partyroom for the amended scheme," Mr Turnbull said.

Oh dear ! Classic foot in mouth again.


----------



## Beej (24 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Buckeroo said:


> There's truth in them words, Calliope.
> 
> Only problem is, the 25% of the population who are on to KRudd, are going to get mighty frustrated having to wait another 4 years! We can only hope a revolutionary army is formed so we can join & vent our frustrations.
> 
> Cheers




Federal parliamentary terms are 3 years.......


----------



## trainspotter (24 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Just trolled through an old thread and found this gem:Seems like nothing has changed. Just new players. On the *29th-July-2008, 05:14 PM *   #1  agro wrote 

Kevin 07 or Kevin 747 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

anyone else get the feeling that our PM, kevin, seems to be out of the country more often than he is in the country?

also, the sense that he is trying to be a hero and save the world from global warming?

and seeing though Australia voted for change, we have got change, inflation (higher interest rates), union strikes (truckies), does not want to take the tax cap of petrol prices, and a whole lot of other things i could go on and on about

i think we would have been 100 times better under an experienced liberal government who had a proven record (if only Howard gave acceptance to Costello running the party) but that's how it goes.. 

 rant/vent - hope i don't get flamed now


----------



## Buckeroo (24 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Beej said:


> Federal parliamentary terms are 3 years.......




Mmmmmm your right...maybe it just seems like 4 years.

Cheers


----------



## Stan 101 (24 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> A bit long winded, but if it makes you happy, I'm okay with that.
> 
> Cheers.





But you simply avoided the question of supplying data for your outrageous statemnt, I see. I'll leave it that. Your avoidance says more than words.


----------



## Calliope (24 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Stan 101 said:


> But you simply avoided the question of supplying data for your outrageous statemnt, I see. I'll leave it that. Your avoidance says more than words.




Brilliant Stan.  It only took you four days to come up with that little gem.


----------



## Julia (24 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> THE Federal Opposition says it will pass the emissions trading scheme (ETS) - if certain significant changes are made to it.
> Ending days of confusion about the opposition's policy on emissions trading, Opposition Leader Malcolm Turnbull today released a statement setting out his demands.
> 
> He says he'll seek the support of his own party to pass the scheme in a Senate vote, due on August 13, if the demands are met.
> ...



This is another example of Malcolm Turnbull's political ineptitude.

Firstly he is unavailable for comment on the ETS for several days.
During this time most of his colleagues make unedifying and contradictory statements about the Liberals' position on the ETS.

Then it's made clear by Turnbull and others that they have no choice but to agree to the legislation because it's a perfect double dissolution trigger for the government, who would undoubtedly win an election.

So effectively the government can put whatever they like in the legislation in the comforting knowledge they have the Opposition over a barrel.

Mr Turnbull, therefore, is hardly in a position to be making any demands re what will and will not be included.

To be so clearly demonstrating that their 'stand' on the ETS is not based on conviction at all, but is purely a political  capitulation, will imo send them even further down in the polls.

I bet John Howard is feeling pretty smug.   Costello too, for that matter.


----------



## trainspotter (24 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

The part of the statement that makes my heart so heavy is this:- _"If the government amends its ETS to put in place these crucial improvements, I will seek, and am confident of obtaining, the support of the coalition partyroom for the amended scheme," Mr Turnbull said._

You have buckleys of getting the factions to stand behind you on this one Malcolm. Any true leader would have said:- "The only way the government will get our approval is if it amends its ETS to put in place these crucial improvements. My party will only accept the amended scheme and nothing else, if this means a double disollusionment of parliament, so be it" Mr Turnbull said.

WOW ... I would like to hear that !


----------



## 2020hindsight (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

As for double dissolutions etc ...

Libs / Coalition would lose
Greens and Indeps would win.
Lab would break even  (except that they gain immediate change of senate instead of mid 2011 for half-senate)

(according to Antony Green)

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=462216

According to Green, a double dissolution is (arguably) no solution for either of the major parties. 


> "Why would the Coalition load the bullets in the gun, and why would Labor want to fire it?"




Time will tell.


----------



## Calliope (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25827790-5007133,00.html




> *Hu 'likely 'persona non grata'*
> 
> STERN Hu, the Australian businessman detained in China on suspicion of spying and stealing state secrets, is likely to be declared persona non grata and thrown out of the country, a US think tank says.



This would make sense, now that they have deflated Rudd's pompous ideas that he has some sort of special relationship with China. China is firmly in control of that relationship. That is their message, loud and clear.


----------



## Calliope (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Mr Rudd has put out a new 6100 word masterpiece for the SMH titled  "The Building Decade. The Long Hard Road to Sustainable Recovery." It is an admission that the massive debts that he has incurred and the high prices induced by his ETS are going to be a huge burden on the country for a long time.

It's not surprising he wants to get the election over before the next horror budget. 

Of course he is still blaming the neo-liberals for causing the Global Financial Crisis in the first place.







> AUSTRALIANS should brace for high unemployment, rising interest rates, severe budget cuts and more expensive food and petrol as the nation and the world recover from the global economic crisis, the Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd, warns.
> 
> "These four pressures will hit Australian families just as they begin to feel the first benefits of recovery," he says. "As growth returns, the economic conditions facing many families will deteriorate."




http://www.smh.com.au/national/rudds-recipe-for-recovery-20090724-dw61.html


----------



## trainspotter (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

*KINDERGARDEN kids could organise a better argument compared to the opposition at the moment, Family First Leader Senator Steve Fielding said on Friday. *

“Tony Abbott’s latest message to Liberals to avoid a double-dissolution election beggars belief,” Senator Fielding said. 

“This sets a dangerous precedent, given it appears as though the Liberals will just roll over and pass bad policy because they don’t want to go to an early election. 

*“Malcolm Turnbull and Tony Abbott need to grow a spine.*

"They need to stand up and do what’s right for this country, not just operate in their own interest. 

“I’m seeking an urgent meeting with Mr Turnbull to discuss this issue because I honestly believe we can’t have an opposition which is scared of standing up to the government. 

“At the end of the day, if the opposition simply rolls over and gives the Rudd Government a green light to do as it wishes, we could be paying for the consequence for years to come.” 

Got the speed wobbles now ......... wont be long before massive train derailment.


----------



## noco (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> *KINDERGARDEN kids could organise a better argument compared to the opposition at the moment, Family First Leader Senator Steve Fielding said on Friday. *
> 
> “Tony Abbott’s latest message to Liberals to avoid a double-dissolution election beggars belief,” Senator Fielding said.
> 
> ...




Hear! Hear! trainspotter. I wish they would stand up to Rudd just like the Nationals. Show some gutz.


----------



## 2020hindsight (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Fielding


> Fielding was born in Melbourne, one of 15 children, and educated at RMIT University, where he graduated in engineering[1], and at Monash University, where he gained an MBA.
> 
> He worked as
> a) an engineer and
> ...




I'm guessing he [Fielding] didn't like 
a) engineering (or vice versa) - and hence became
b) a senior superannuation executive (not just any superannuation executive , a "senior" one, lol), and then
c) a politician.

Doesn't sound to me like Fielding's technical abilities shone through during that particular professional procession.   His question that he repeats ten times during most interviews , i.e. " CO2's going up but temperature's going down, please explain"  just signifies his inability to get the slightest foothold on the climb to understand the many dimensions of the problem. (multiple forcing functions for a start). 

As for Turnbull, I'm thinking that he always was in favour of action on global warming, so why shouldn't he try to lead the Coalition in that direction.  ?


----------



## Calliope (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



2020hindsight said:


> Doesn't sound to me like Fielding...er thread to push your global warming barrow.


----------



## 2020hindsight (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> :topic You are up to your old tricks again trying to hijack another thread to push your global warming barrow.



Well if you're keeping up Calliope, trainspotter talks about Fielding and Turnbull. 

And in response, so do I.  

you polite consistently on topic man you 

BUT - I have taken your advice and posted more about Fielding on the ":Climate Change / Weather" thread


----------



## trainspotter (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

*OI 2020 * ... Back in your box ! Fielding made comment about the Libs and Turnbull. NUFFIN to do with climate change. OK ??


----------



## 2020hindsight (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> *OI 2020 ... Back in your box ! Fielding made comment about the Libs and Turnbull. NUFFIN to do with climate change. OK ??*



*
LOL - it's all about climate change!

Fielding is saying that the Libs should stand up to Rudd  ON CLIMATE CHANGE!  and/or Carbon Trading.    After all , that's what might bring on the (sic) double disollusionment of parliament 

Or haven't you been listening ?

PS Trainspotter - maybe you could give a link to your quotes from the press - eg on Fielding and Turnbull - especially if they are selectively quoted from.  thanks. cheers*


----------



## 2020hindsight (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> ... Got the speed wobbles now ......... wont be long before massive train derailment.



  basically I probably agree - throw in Wilson Tuckey and Nick (oops) Minchin - and of course the Nats like Barnaby Joyce, and Malcolm will have his job cut out just staying in the yellow jersey.     

(Or as the new apparent hero round here, Fielding, would say, that's the colour he should be wearing anyway).

Wilson calls him "arrogant and inexperienced"
Maybe he's showing a damned site more political nouse than you Wilson.


----------



## trainspotter (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Ha HAR ! Good show old sport. Two different topics here. Fielding is TELLING the press he wants the Libs etc to stand up to the Labor Party machine. Cause a double disollusionment in parliament. They are too gutless as internal polling shows 20 seats may be lost.

The CLIMATE CHANGE is just the trigger he is using. It could be another matter but it is not. Don't twist the topic please. 

Haven't been listening by the way. Have been reading intently and absorbing the info flashing before my eyes!


----------



## Calliope (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

The Wedgie.


----------



## trainspotter (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



2020hindsight said:


> basically I probably agree - throw in Wilson Tuckey and Tim Minchin - and of course the Nats like Barnaby Joyce, and Malcolm will have his job cut out just staying in the yellow jersey.
> 
> (Or as the new apparent hero round here, Fielding, would say, that's the colour he should be wearing anyway).
> 
> ...




Gee .. don't be so indecisive. I used to be but now I am not so sure? This inhouse fighting always occurs in any opposition when the other force is stronger and more popular. Quite fractious really. Nature of politics.

*BACK TO THE TOPIC PLEASE !!*


----------



## 2020hindsight (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Hey, lol - I'm too busy for this . 
since when is a post agreeing with someone else more off topic that the post replied to 

go for it. - Sort it out beteen yourselves. 

like I said,  it was a real unfair fight when you, Calliope and a couple of others took on Rederob.   - you never stood a chance. 

Still I'm not in his league . cheers


----------



## trainspotter (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Whoooooooops ... excuse my previous post. Got a little bit of steam up. It was kinda funny with rederob. Like something out of an early Bruce Lee movie whereby he takes on each one individually whilst the others patiently waited their turn. 

Don't sell yourself short 2020. I hear whispers that you and rederob are actually one and the same person !!!

Thanks for the tips about supplying links as well to support my outlandish statements.


----------



## MrBurns (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Geez Rudd's written another bloody assay - 



> Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has warned of more economic pain ahead for Australia in a lengthy essay published in the Sydney Morning Herald.




http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/25/2636160.htm


----------



## Calliope (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> Geez Rudd's written another bloody assay -
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/25/2636160.htm




Yes I covered that on post #474


----------



## kincella (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

well I refuse to read his essay....spin, rubbish.....I see he is wearing his 'serious' hat for that one....oh and wonder... do they paint his lips to give him some colour ???? colourless wimp.....too easy to see through....
lets not discuss all the trips paid for by the chinese, tawainese, koreans etc...

ha...labour wants the double disollution....bring it on....that way we will get rid of Turnbull...surely...
throw out Turnbull, Abbot,Hockey and Bishop, find some people with some gutz...like the independents and Barnaby Joyce


----------



## MrBurns (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Yes I covered that on post #474




Sorry didnt see that Calliope and kincella, I wonder how close an election might be if the Libs had the right leader, I'm not so sure Rudd is as popular as the polls indicate.


----------



## Calliope (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> Don't sell yourself short 2020. I hear whispers that you and rederob are actually one and the same person !!!




2020 is not in the same league as Rederob. Rederob is consistent and never gets sidetracked. He won't be happy with your statement.


----------



## Uncle Barry (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Good afternoon 2020
Mate, your making me laugh here, 
"it was a real unfair fight when you, Calliope and a couple of others took on Rederob. - you never stood a chance. "

By any chance are you also a script writter for the Comedy Company in your day job ?

Kind regards,
UB


----------



## MrBurns (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> 2020 is not in the same league as Rederob. Rederob is consistent and never gets sidetracked. He won't be happy with your statement.




I've never noticed rederob was anymore a wordsmith than anyone else, he was however a bit nasty and thats why you dont see him here any more


----------



## trainspotter (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

That is the crucial crux of the matter. No strong leader. Need to manufacture one quickly. And how ! Reckon someone with gonads the size of a basketball will cream Rudd. 

Just read my post carefully. It did not come out the way it was intended.


----------



## 2020hindsight (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Uncle Barry said:


> Good afternoon 2020
> Mate, your making me laugh here,
> "it was a real unfair fight when you, Calliope and a couple of others took on Rederob. - you never stood a chance. "
> 
> ...



howdy UB,
No but since you, Mr B and kincella have joined in, I'm reminded of who else was taking on Rederob at the time.  The thread , from memory was "Did Rudd mislead Parliament".   

Incidentally I posted my thoughts on the poetry thread.  One thing I don't recall seeing mention here throughout that argument was that Howard changed many of the public service heads when he took over (arguably a cowardly thing to do) - whereas Rudd didn't. 

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=458818



> and it's interesting that Howard , was the arguable coward
> cos he changed the public service to his lackies when he won
> whereas Rudd just trusted each - that includes one Godwin Grech
> and it's interesting which hunter/hunted finally came undone.




:topic PS Why is it I get the feeling that you sign letters to people you're gonna sue (or some such) with "Kind Regards"  ?

Like those Dickensian days ... 
"And hence sir, consider yourself on notice for a duel at sunup 
Ever your humble servant ...?" etc


----------



## Calliope (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> Sorry didnt see that Calliope and kincella, I wonder how close an election might be if the Libs had the right leader, I'm not so sure Rudd is as popular as the polls indicate.




One thing seems pretty certain. Rudd's main interest in trying to force this ETS bill through is to get the grounds for a dissolution and have an election before the electorate wakes up to him. The ETS is not an urgent matter.

I think the Coalition should stand up for their principles instead of rolling over. Sure, they can't win the  next election, but at least the Ruddites term in office won't be two full terms and I think the Coalition will need that time to develop a real leader.


----------



## 2020hindsight (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> I've never noticed rederob was anymore a wordsmith than anyone else, he was however a bit nasty and thats why you dont see him here any more




lol - seems that "nastiness" lies in the eyes of the beholder. (or the beer holder as the case may be)
"right-leaning namecalling/nastiness" seems to be tolerated more than "left-leaning" if you ask me.


----------



## trainspotter (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

*Nodding head in sage like manner to the wisdom of the above post #497 by Calliope*


----------



## kincella (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> That is the crucial crux of the matter. No strong leader. Need to manufacture one quickly. And how ! Reckon someone with gonads the size of a basketball will cream Rudd.
> 
> no...big gonads not required....but balls of steel to do the right thing...thats all simple really....
> 
> ...


----------



## trainspotter (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

It was a terrible analogy I know. BUT the double entendre was quite cerebral. rederob has been "put in the hole" for a couple of months I believe. Could not quite get the hang of pissing off the mod squad or the other posters. At times the vitriol was TOO PERSONAL for anyones taste. Other times he had such a bastard clarity of mind it was frightening. OH well .. the price of genius I spose.


----------



## Calliope (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



2020hindsight said:


> lol - seems that "nastiness" lies in the eyes of the beholder. (or the beer holder as the case may be)
> "right-leaning namecalling/nastiness" seems to be tolerated more than "left-leaning" if you ask me.




Don't sell yourself short. Your junk verse is much more offensive than nasty words.


----------



## kincella (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

the price of genius.......no way.....too gullible more like it....:sheep:....:sheep:


----------



## MrBurns (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> One thing seems pretty certain. Rudd's main interest in trying to force this ETS bill through is to get the grounds for a dissolution and have an election before the electorate wakes up to him. The ETS is not an urgent matter.
> 
> I think the Coalition should stand up for their principles instead of rolling over. Sure, they can't win the  next election, but at least the Ruddites term in office won't be two full terms and I think the Coalition will need that time to develop a real leader.




Thats the reason for his essay today to try and warm the public up to whats to come, an election now would suit him nicely, I think they (Libs) should do everything to prevent it as the timing will be perfect when it all goes belly up just before the next election is due.
ETC ? phooey, just cancel it once the Libs are in, no one knows what the hell it is anyway and they dont care.
Buy everyone a Prius instead and just getting Rudd out will improve our carbon footprint no end.


----------



## 2020hindsight (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



kincella said:


> no...big gonads not required....but balls of steel to do the right thing...thats all simple really....
> 
> *just bring in Costello......easy fix..one simple move..*



weird isn't it -  John Hewson saying Costello didn't have said "balls" etc ... This article from 22 Feb this year. 

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/you-missed-your-chance-peter-20090221-8e70.html?page=-1



> Costello's ongoing shenanigans are continuing to damage the Liberal Party,
> *writes John Hewson.*
> 
> PETER. Enough is enough. If your few remaining mates won't tell you, I will. ....
> ...




(Personally , fwiw, I never had a major problem with Costello - I have more of a problem with old PM hopefuls who did nothing - and now want to try to justify their existence - like Hewson).

PS Costello was one of the best damned parliamentary performers as well.  - the only Lib who could take on Keating at that time.


----------



## kincella (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Hewson....who the hell was he.....absolutley useless...he had no balls...so thinks everyone else is the same...one cannot use the name Costello in the same sentence as that jerk.....
Kennett had steel balls....but just a bit too arrogant....so we voted against him...just as a warning....never meant to turf him out......
Heard someone calling for him to run NSW....
now that could be  a dream team.....Kennett...take no prisoners....a right hand man for Costello....both have a 'funny' sense of humour....which the general public 'dont get'.............:sheep::sheep:


----------



## trainspotter (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Watched the interview when he said this too. Should have kept his trap shut. Obviously does not understand the meaning of *EX *PM hopeful !

Mr Burns you have literally hit the nail on the head. We are being rounded up like mindless sheep at the moment for the slaughter. So is the opposition. Kruddy 747 tacticians have pulled the coup de' grace if this succeeds. We can all see it coming. I vote we have a "Don's Party" at my place come election night and watch the entrails fall out on the big screen.


----------



## MrBurns (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> Watched the interview when he said this too. Should have kept his trap shut. Obviously does not understand the meaning of *EX *PM hopeful !
> 
> Mr Burns you have literally hit the nail on the head. We are being rounded up like mindless sheep at the moment for the slaughter. So is the opposition. Kruddy 747 tacticians have pulled the coup de' grace if this succeeds. We can all see it coming. I vote we have a "Don's Party" at my place come election night and watch the entrails fall out on the big screen.




You can have a big red button in the middle of the room thats connected your your brokers office to put a sell order in if Rudd looks like getting back.


----------



## 2020hindsight (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Never mind Mr B, Rudd (and Australia) will lead the world outta their recession, you wait and see 

btw, if you haven't been in the market lately (assuming your money's where your mouth is), then you've missed some great opportunities.


----------



## kincella (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

this says it all


----------



## trainspotter (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

We seem to be sinking to new lows. I like it when it hits the gutter. I do my best work whilst laying down. Rudd is tenderising us like a Wagyu bit of beef. Warning us that things are going to get worse whilst he is on watch. Not so silly in the scheme of things. I prefer quiet achievers myself not some blowhard who is intent on hoodwinking the populace behind some smoke screen of hyperbole. "Fair suck of the sauce bottle mate"


----------



## Calliope (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Rudd prefers to answer his own questions.


----------



## kincella (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I refuse to watch him on anything.....I prefer the way the cartoonist features his face as 'faceless' with just hair and glasses...nothing else...

that looks like his family friendly face...he has a different face for every occasion......
I do not like anything about him at all.....I dislike him....
and he would have these websites shut down if he could...so we could not openly discuss what we think about him....
oh and I really, really, really dislike Gilliard, Tanner, Swan, in fact all of them except for...drum roll...Stephen Smith....whom I like just a little...not a great amount...
its got nothing to do with that party...apart from the fact they are mainly union thugs remade....
and just to keep it all in perspective......I really dislike Howard, Abbott, etc 
but I liked Brendan Nelson
how that


----------



## trainspotter (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Is this more to your liking Kincella?


----------



## 2020hindsight (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

... Bill Leak  on the subject...


----------



## Calliope (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



2020hindsight said:


> ... Bill Leak  on the subject...




You got it wrong again.  It's Nicholson


----------



## trainspotter (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Hook, line and sinker stuff there 2020. :iamwithst


----------



## 2020hindsight (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> You got it wrong again.  It's Nicholson




quite right - apologies - posted whilst cooking dinner, and google enquiry for "Leak" somehow ended up on his workmate's website "Nicholson". 
you've posted the most recent Bill Leak on #484 I notice.

(On this occasion I prefer Nicholson's take on it )


----------



## MrBurns (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Rudd sucks all the young FHB's in with his stimulus bribe then comes out with his self serving BS "essay" today stating things will be tough with this and that and *rising interest rates*???

There must be thousands out there scared after reading that, I mean really this man is nothing but a first class prick.


----------



## Calliope (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



2020hindsight said:


> quite right - apologies - posted whilst cooking dinner, and google enquiry for "Leak" somehow ended up on his workmate's website "Nicholson".
> you've posted the most recent Bill Leak on #484 I notice.
> 
> (On this occasion I prefer Nicholson's take on it )




No need to apologise. It's called a senior moment.


----------



## trainspotter (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I can feel the love in the room already, right, where did I put my drink?


----------



## Julia (25 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> One thing seems pretty certain. Rudd's main interest in trying to force this ETS bill through is to get the grounds for a dissolution and have an election before the electorate wakes up to him. The ETS is not an urgent matter.



It is urgent to him.  He wants to go to Copenhagen and strut around, boasting about how he already is leading the world in having an ETS up and running, or at least legislated.

He is in the box seat at present.  Malcolm Turnbull took a body blow over the Utegate affair, has not recovered, and is now impotent as far as the ETS is concerned.   He knows an early election will kill him, and lose the Coalition many seats.   Labor are (quite reasonably) making the most of the division in Coalition ranks re the ETS.   

My guess is that Turnbull will obtain a grudging majority of his party to vote for the ETS even if his amendments are rejected by the government, and he will thereupon be remembered not just for his incompetence but also for his cowardice.



> I think the Coalition should stand up for their principles instead of rolling over. Sure, they can't win the  next election, but at least the Ruddites term in office won't be two full terms and I think the Coalition will need that time to develop a real leader.



I agree, but don't think it will happen that way.

When the Libs have rolled over on the ETS, it leaves the way wide open for the government to introduce any other dodgy legislation they want to get through, playing on the same fear of the Opposition of a double dissolution election.   Labor must be laughing themselves silly.


----------



## MrBurns (26 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Rudd looking after Labor..........errr sorry Australia



> Marginal seats first to get super-fast broadband
> Posted Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:37pm AEST
> Updated Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:39pm AEST
> 
> ...


----------



## 2020hindsight (26 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



> Smithton in the north-west will be connected by the end of the year



lol - not far from where Howard was gonna buy the only hospital to be federally owned 
Hell Rudd was always gonna roll this out in Tassie first - debug the system whatever.


----------



## GumbyLearner (26 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

ALP hypocrisy anyone?
Looks like the old school tie socialist hack elites have all the answers again. 
http://www.theage.com.au/national/job-seekers-warned-dont-be-snobs-20090726-dx7g.html

*Job seekers warned: don't be snobs*
July 26, 2009 - 11:37AM

Job aspirations are great, but they need to be realistic, says federal Finance Minister Lindsay Tanner.

Mr Tanner said people could not be too choosy when it came to finding work in times of high unemployment.

He was commenting after his federal front bench colleague Employment Participation Minister Mark Arbib warned job seekers not to be job snobs.

Mr Arbib, in an address to the young Labor conference in Sydney on Saturday, warned that unemployment among Australian youth would worsen before it improved and people should take a job even if they do not consider it ideal.
When in opposition, Labor loudly condemned the then coalition government for saying the same thing.

In 2006, then Human Services Minister Joe Hockey announced plans to push more of what he termed "dole bludgers" and "job snobs" into work, copping strong attacks from welfare groups.

And in 2001, the Labor opposition along with church and welfare groups roundly attacked then workplace relations minister Tony Abbott for referring to some unemployed as "job snobs" unwilling to accept any available work.
But, Mr Tanner on Sunday, said what the ALP once condemned was now a matter of practical reality.

He said Mr Arbib's remarks indicated it was important to have aspirations but it was also important that they were realistic.


----------



## trainspotter (27 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Why are we spending 11.5 million dollars over 4 years for a flat and an office in Rome when we have a perfectly good Australian Embassy 5kms away? Treasury estimates that the cost of the new post is $55,700 per week to for the new ambassador to Rome whose sole job is to lobby for Kevin Rudd's bid to obtain an Australian seat on the United Nations Security Council. Apparently the "position" is ... wait for it ... Ambassador to the Vatican.


----------



## GumbyLearner (27 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> Why are we spending 11.5 million dollars over 4 years for a flat and an office in Rome when we have a perfectly good Australian Embassy 5kms away? Treasury estimates that the cost of the new post is $55,700 per week to for the new ambassador to Rome whose sole job is to lobby for Kevin Rudd's bid to obtain an Australian seat on the United Nations Security Council. Apparently the "position" is ... wait for it ... Ambassador to the Vatican.




Yes trainspotter. What a waste!


----------



## MrBurns (27 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> Why are we spending 11.5 million dollars over 4 years for a flat and an office in Rome when we have a perfectly good Australian Embassy 5kms away? Treasury estimates that the cost of the new post is $55,700 per week to for the new ambassador to Rome whose sole job is to lobby for Kevin Rudd's bid to obtain an Australian seat on the United Nations Security Council. Apparently the "position" is ... wait for it ... Ambassador to the Vatican.




Rudd always has the best our money can buy.


----------



## GumbyLearner (27 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> Why are we spending 11.5 million dollars over 4 years for a flat and an office in Rome when we have a perfectly good Australian Embassy 5kms away? Treasury estimates that the cost of the new post is $55,700 per week to for the new ambassador to Rome whose sole job is to lobby for Kevin Rudd's bid to obtain an Australian seat on the United Nations Security Council. Apparently the "position" is ... wait for it ... Ambassador to the Vatican.




Who is going to live in the flat? 
Will it be Tim Fischer or Mandy Glandstone?


----------



## Julia (27 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Is this someone in addition to Tim Fischer?
What utter nonsense.

Where was Amanda Vanstone despatched to?  Didn't she go to Rome?
Oh sorry, I've just realised the above reference was to her.


----------



## GumbyLearner (27 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> Is this someone in addition to Tim Fischer?
> What utter nonsense.
> 
> Where was Amanda Vanstone despatched to?  Didn't she go to Rome?
> Oh sorry, I've just realised the above reference was to her.




Sorry I'm just Aussie and grew up around colloquialisms and word-play puns. Couldn't think of one for Tim Fischer though. So you got me. :

But how does Jim Beam-Petersen sound?


----------



## Wilson! (27 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Yes he is a lot better than the little nerdy Johhny, who I met once and was the most arrogant little man (even before he became PM) and who kissed Georges **** for so many years and ruined Australia's reputation on the world stage. 

We are a lot better off since and I havent looked back since. 
Cheers,
Wilson


----------



## GumbyLearner (27 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Wilson! said:


> Yes he is a lot better than the little nerdy Johhny, who I met once and was the most arrogant little man (even before he became PM) and who kissed Georges **** for so many years and ruined Australia's reputation on the world stage.
> 
> We are a lot better off since and I havent looked back since.
> Cheers,
> Wilson




I think you should listen to the TISM album Gentlemen Start your Egos.


----------



## trainspotter (28 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

*THE PM bags the deregulation of the past 25 years but claims he wants to boost productivity.*
KEVIN Rudd's second long crisis essay continues to misdiagnose Australia's economic challenges as stemming from the failures of a "decade of neo-liberal free market fundamentalism". And, compared to the first essay penned in January, an emboldened Prime Minister now feels vindicated that massive government intervention has saved global capitalism. But these intellectual foundations muddy rather than clarify the PM's reform principles for driving the next decade of productivity growth. His road to recovery ends up in the hoary political refuge of "nation building", which will also serves to justify post-crisis belt-tightening.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25839597-5017771,00.html

This guy is right on the money ! 

Rudd will combine his bleak new message with insistence that the government's fiscal stimulus - such as the $14bn primary school construction program - will continue to support jobs. 

But he is warning working families to prepare for higher petrol prices and supermarket bills, on top of higher interest rates, when the economic recovery arrives and global commodity prices turn up. 

*That's a bit rich. In opposition, Rudd promised to ease the household squeeze from higher petrol and food prices during a global commodity boom. *

But the actual policy response - including Fuel Watch and Grocery Watch - turned out to be a useless political stunt.


----------



## MrBurns (28 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Wilson! said:


> Yes he is a lot better than the little nerdy Johhny, who I met once and was the most arrogant little man (even before he became PM) and who kissed Georges **** for so many years and ruined Australia's reputation on the world stage.
> 
> We are a lot better off since and I havent looked back since.
> Cheers,
> Wilson




What country do you live in ? I live in Australia where Rudd makes Howard look like a national hero.
You haven't looked back ? well dont because all you'll see is ruin and forward for that matter.


----------



## queenslander55 (28 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Apparently so according to the latest polling, and Turnbull is slightly more popular than the Swine Flu according to the figures.  So I suppose the short answer to your question Does Rudd inspire confidence should be answered.

Q55


----------



## queenslander55 (28 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> Why are we spending 11.5 million dollars over 4 years for a flat and an office in Rome when we have a perfectly good Australian Embassy 5kms away? Treasury estimates that the cost of the new post is $55,700 per week to for the new ambassador to Rome whose sole job is to lobby for Kevin Rudd's bid to obtain an Australian seat on the United Nations Security Council. Apparently the "position" is ... wait for it ... Ambassador to the Vatican.




...and wait for it!!!  Guess who the first ambassador is???

Watch krudd playing partisan party politics again...jobs for the Labor hacks again...etc.  etc.  etc. (ad nausium)

Grumble...grumble....yeah...bloody commies......

BUT WAIT!!!   That's right it's Tim Fischer?....Wasn't Tim Fischer past leader of the National Party?.....and wait....Weren't the National Party the junior member of the last coalition government???

Wonder what krudd's up to hmmm.


----------



## queenslander55 (28 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



rhen said:


> Firstly, an apology.
> This comment by our PM inspires anger in me...so I'll try to remain calm and apologize now if I don't succeed:
> _Mr Rudd stuck to his guns when quizzed on a comment he made earlier in the day when he said that, through the Budget, the Government had done "as much as we physically can" to help.
> 
> ...




rhen my boy, I really do think you need a little history lesson.

It's a crying shame that you have the temerity to forget that it was your beloved John Winston Howard who then as treasurer under the superb guidance and outstanding leadersip of then prime minister Malcolm (Where's my pants?) Fraser, sold Australian motorists down the gurgler by obligating Australia to the World Oil Parity Price in 1978.  We had then and still do now have some of the largest reserves in the World of the highest grade oil prized by the Aviation Industry....shame poor ordinary blokes like you and me can no longer take advantage of it eh...?


----------



## 2020hindsight (28 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> Why are we spending 11.5 million dollars over 4 years for a flat and an office in Rome ....
> Apparently the "position" is ... wait for it ... Ambassador to the Vatican.




http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0700092.htm


> In 1980, he said, the Vatican exchanged ambassadors with just over 90 countries.
> By the end of 2002, the *number had increased to 174*, thanks particularly to the new nations and the newly democratic nations in Eastern Europe. But the expansion of the diplomatic corps also was due to the upgrading of relations with the United States and Israel





> "Many of the ambassadors to the Vatican are not career diplomats, but *personalities in their own country*. Most have a high level of education and culture ," he said.



Sounds like a perfect description of Tim Fisher, lol ... especially the "character" bit. 

Anyway, seems Australia is not alone (1 in almost 200?) in being represented at the Vatican, even though the objectives are not obvious.   (I'm guessing Tim's main goal is to get the Swiss guards to wear wool)



> http://www.smh.com.au/news/world-yo...vatican-posting/2008/07/21/1216492312756.html
> Tim Fischer gets Vatican posting
> July 21, 2008
> Newly appointed ambassador to the Holy See Tim Fischer has admitted that he is a less than perfect practising Catholic.
> ...




Hey Tim ... herewith some Latin to practice - especially for the current diplomatic service :- 


> Carpe jugulum ..Translation: "Go for the throat."
> Carpe noctem. ...Translation: "Seize the night."
> Carpe pugam. ...Translation: "Grab ass."
> 
> ...


----------



## Julia (28 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



queenslander55 said:


> ...and wait for it!!!  Guess who the first ambassador is???
> 
> Watch krudd playing partisan party politics again...jobs for the Labor hacks again...etc.  etc.  etc. (ad nausium)
> 
> ...



I'm a bit confused about your posting this as though it's a new announcement.  From memory Tim Fischer was appointed to Rome about a year ago, so it's hardly news.

Am I missing some point somewhere?


----------



## queenslander55 (28 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> Am I missing some point somewhere?




Not at all Julia.  Perhaps I was being unnecessarily playful...I have promised in another thread to play nice from then on but, would you agree that it would be perhaps a more fruitful conversation to be hoestly critical of all decisions by all flavours of politics that affect all of us - rich and poor alike?

My honest belief is that partisan politics has outlived it's usefulness.


----------



## trainspotter (29 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

This cartoon says it all really.


----------



## trainspotter (29 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

*TAXPAYERS will wear considerable costs in reforms of Australia's health system, Prime Minister Kevin Rudd says. *
The Prime Minister pledged to be "blunt'' with taxpayers about the cost of reforms proposed in the National Health and Hospitals Reform Commission's report, released on Monday. 

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25852795-29277,00.html 

FINALLY! a "blunt" answer from Kruddy 747. Too bad he is admitting that "WE" the taxpayers will be footing the bill yet again.


----------



## 2020hindsight (29 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I saw a news article that Kevin Rudd was stepping down and offering the leadership back to John Howard - mumbling something about "here, you and your mate George dubya got us into this mess, - only fair that you get us out of it!!" .  Rats, Can't find the link.


----------



## trainspotter (30 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

MP Julia Gillard Member for Lalor faces the media after asking Kruddy747 as to the secession plan. She thought she was going to be P.M. She was WRONG ! Pinocchio asked for his nose back.


----------



## trainspotter (30 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

*Interest Rate Rises on Horizon*
Thursday 30th July 2009 

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has warned home buyers that interest rates will rise as the economic recovery gets underway. 

The Reserve Bank slashed interest rates to 49-year lows from last October, as a global banking crisis froze credit and threatened economic disaster.

Since then, government stimulus packages have encouraged first home owners back into the market – but the Australian Bureau of Statistics shows the average mortgage has gone up to around $282,000 for first home buyers.

Financial markets expect the cash rate to begin rising early in 2010 and to hit 3.4 per cent in a year's time. 

The Prime Minister has warned interest rates may rise quickly, so home owners and property investors should be prepared for how they will cope when rates rise.


----------



## MrBurns (30 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> *Interest Rate Rises on Horizon*
> Thursday 30th July 2009
> 
> Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has warned home buyers that interest rates will rise as the economic recovery gets underway.
> ...




Bit too late now isnt it you essay writing mega tosser KRudd


----------



## stocksontheblock (30 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> He speaks and acts like a second rate preacher from Gympie.
> 
> He inspires no confidence in me on how he will manage this life or the next.
> 
> gg




lol ... I completely agree! Nothing like seeing a stupid man talk as though he is clever. Meet a few of them in my life and when I compare them to Mr Dudd I cant tell the difference.


----------



## stocksontheblock (30 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> 2020, the thread is asking does Mr Rudd inspire confidence.  It is not asking for a blow by blow rake over of every policy decision made by the former government.
> 
> We can safely assume you are a great fan of Mr Rudd.  Really don't need you to attempt to justify this with endless criticisms of the previous government, however well deserved they may be.
> 
> ...




Absolutely agree! Particularly the last sentence - well put!!!


----------



## Buddy (30 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Of course, this is all totally irrelevant. Simply because the great unwashed out there still luv him and his mates. 

However, when things go bad.........like...........(a) when his ETS closes down industry in this country, followed by mass unemployment and an A$ worth about USD 0.4, which in turn will lead to further mega problems, (b) he raises taxes significantly to pay for his grand health plan, and to pay back the billions borrowed, (c) our universities go broke because there are no more fee paying students to keep them afloat, (d) he aquiesces to the greens to get his legislation passed, and we are flooded with all the dumbassed green demands, (e) the place is flooded with refugees, followed by riots (because that's all they know),  .................blah blah.  Well then watch the great unwashed turn on him. 

The only real problem is....who is going to fix his mess?

Then again, if he is successful in Labor's grand plan of dumbing down the Australian population to a level where there are no more intelligent and educated people to vote him out, then he and his mob will be in power for ever. Let's call it the Labor dictatorship. That's their plan isn't it?


----------



## trainspotter (30 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

*clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap * Round of applause goes to Julia and Buddy. Free thinking at it's best. Brings tears to my eyes it does.


----------



## trainspotter (30 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

*Tony Abbott has something to say about P.M. Kevin (squealer) Rudd*

"I suspect what it is, is much greater political cunning and much more sophisticated political mechanics than anything we might have realised when he was simply the shadow minister for foreign affairs. 

"But will that political cunning get Mr Rudd through until the next election? 

*"I don't want to sound like a head kicker but the fact is that, as was reinforced by the speech this morning he's never had an original thought. He's never said an interesting thing and he's never taken a tough decision,'' *Mr Abbott said. 

Mr Abbott was referring to Mr Rudd's opening address at Labor's 45th national conference, held at Sydney's Darling Harbour today. 

"I am confident that as soon as he has to take tough decisions, such as saying `no' to all the multitudinous pressures of lobby groups with their hands out, his popularity will start to change. 

"One of the reasons why I suspect he is very eager to have an election before next year's budget is because next year's budget I think is when many of the chickens will finally come home to roost.'' 

 spoken like a possible Leader of the Opposition.


----------



## Buckeroo (30 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> *Tony Abbott has something to say about P.M. Kevin (squealer) Rudd*
> 
> "I suspect what it is, is much greater political cunning and much more sophisticated political mechanics than anything we might have realised when he was simply the shadow minister for foreign affairs.
> 
> ...




That reminds me, I once new this manger (I crossed paths with him a few times in my business) and his management technique for coaxing people was promising them things like improved conditions, financial rewards etc outside company policy. This worked fine as long as he changed jobs every couple of years before the promises needed to be resolved.

Eventually it did catch up with him just as I think it will all catch up with KRudd before the next election.

Cheers


----------



## noco (31 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

You know we should all worship our Kevvie because he IS "GOD" or at least he thinks he is.

He giveth life on one hand ($900 STIMULUS PATMENT)  and taketh away life with the other ($1000 to fix the HEALTH CARE). That's $900 + interest. Don't blame the previous Government because it was then a state responsiblty to be funded out of the GST. The states squanded this revenue on other quackey things.

I wondered why there was an elastic band attached to the stimulis cheque ; now I know. At least the pensioners will be $50.00 better off because they received $1050.

Does he inspire me? How could he when he pulls off this stunt.

Wake up Australia!


----------



## Calliope (31 July 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

If anybody had any doubts that Rudd's continual obfuscation, spin, evasion and deliberating lying would catch up with him this editorial in his favourite newspaper the Sydney Morning Herald, should put them to rights;

* Now they're really angry. Rudd's the new George Dubya*
July 31, 2009

Article from:  The Australian
More Government Gazette insubordination. Yesterday's Sydney Morning Herald editorial rebukes its star columnist



> IS Kevin Rudd capable of governing Australia in a timely and effective manner? For some time questions about the Prime Minister's leadership qualities have been growing. At best, he is seen as a politician constantly seeking political cover for his decisions: national ideas summits, consultative forums, a tax review that excludes politically unpalatable options, and this week a vision of what Labor might do about our inefficient and at times dangerous health system. Less charitable observers discern timidity and prevarication. If Rudd had spent as much time turning promises into results as he has clocking up overseas air miles, he would have more to show for almost two years in office. His failure to make change happen has disappointed those who celebrated his ascent to power. His rudderless style induces a paralysis of hope, a loss of faith in our ability as a nation to resolve complex problems. One is reminded of the previous US president, George Bush, who dithered in his first two years in office and then found his feet after the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. But because of a lack of good ideas and political skills his presidency ended in ignominious failure on all fronts. If Rudd wants to avoid a similar fate, he needs to get his skates on now. We need decisive leadership, not rule by committee and media conference. Priming Australia to do well in the 21st century requires tough, politically unpopular decisions, not just easy ones.




The SMH of course is making a case for Gillard.


----------



## Calliope (1 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Rudd can't help telling porkies. The 50,000 new jobs he boasted about to the ALP conference are neither "new" nor "jobs".


----------



## trainspotter (1 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I once went to a "motivational speaker" symposium. Brad Cooper was the dish being served up. He owned an alarm system company whereby he conned FAI into buying him out for millions of dollars who in turn sold out to HIH. He had a "genius" moment and called all the wives of the installers into the room and asked them for ideas. A very low cost consultancy service. Unlike the Labor party who has spent 800 million dollars on "Consultants". WHO exactly is running this country again?

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2005/s1494755.htm for Brad Cooper results.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/m-the-high-price-of-rudd-advice/story-e6freuy9-1225747573306 for the WASTE of money by Labor


----------



## trainspotter (1 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

*But wait ... there is more ! *
Labor waste is mounting up. There is an emerging trend of waste, inefficiency and mismanagement in the way that the Rudd Labor government is managing the Australian economy and its affairs in government. A pattern of behaviour is developing. The government’s spending fails to deliver value for money to the Australian taxpayer, fails to deliver on promises it made to the Australian people and demonstrates its inability to govern. Examples are mounting up. For laptop computers in schools there has been a 66 per cent increase, or an $800 million blow-out””mismanagement in the extreme. The GROCERYchoice website””what a farce! It has cost taxpayers $13 million to develop this website and it has offered absolutely nothing to consumers or shoppers. What a waste! In climate change advertising there has been $13.95 million of waste and inefficiency. Then we have the government’s $42 billion spending spree, where $28 million was used for just administration and advertising. Then there was the printing of the Garnaut report””$65,000 to pay for printing after they had sold off the rights to the publication. How about that!

http://www.openaustralia.org/senate/?gid=2009-03-10.104.2 for the FACTS !


----------



## GumbyLearner (1 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Rudd can't help telling porkies. The 50,000 new jobs he boasted about to the ALP conference are neither "new" nor "jobs".




Great cartoon Calliope. 

Here's Mr.Arbib on Sky News

http://player.video.news.com.au/theaustralian/#1199893000


----------



## noco (2 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Interest rates are expected to  rise by 2 1/2% by the end of next year.

Now if the RBA  decide to raise these rates in increments of .25%, that will make 10 interest rate rises in a row.

Yes! my next question is how will our Kevvie handle it after denouncing  and blaming the Howard/Costello Government for the 10 interest rate rises before the last election?

No kidding the SPIN  DOCTOR MACHINES will be working overtime when that happens.


----------



## MrBurns (2 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noco said:


> Interest rates are expected to  rise by 2 1/2% by the end of next year.
> 
> Now if the RBA  decide to raise these rates in increments of .25%, that will make 10 interest rate rises in a row.
> 
> ...




He'll get his election before then so if he loses he couldnt care less and if he wins he's safe and couldnt care less.

I think the rises will kick in faster then that though.


----------



## Buckeroo (2 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noco said:


> Interest rates are expected to  rise by 2 1/2% by the end of next year.
> 
> Now if the RBA  decide to raise these rates in increments of .25%, that will make 10 interest rate rises in a row.
> 
> ...




What makes you think it won't be Howard/Costello's fault? 

They were the ones who left all that money for KRudd to get his hands on, to spend on the stimulus which in turn caused the interest rates to go skyhigh.

Cheers


----------



## trainspotter (2 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Hence as to why he has mercilesly tenderised us with his excrements called "essays" on how things are going to get tougher and "Don't say I didn't warn you imbeciles" he will holler from the Lodge. "Let them eat cake" would be another one heard bellowed from Therese Rein gob as she purges over the balcony. I am feeling woozy from thinking about how quickly this mess is going to hit the fan. Time to evacuate.


----------



## MrBurns (2 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> Hence as to why he has mercilesly tenderised us with his excrements called "essays" on how things are going to get tougher and "Don't say I didn't warn you imbeciles" he will holler from the Lodge. "Let them eat cake" would be another one heard bellowed from Therese Rein gob as she purges over the balcony. I am feeling woozy from thinking about how quickly this mess is going to hit the fan. Time to evacuate.




I wish it would just hurry up, I'm sick of all this positive economic news, it's all wrong !


----------



## Buckeroo (2 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> I wish it would just hurry up, I'm sick of all this positive economic news, it's all wrong !




My thoughts exactly!


----------



## trainspotter (2 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Tony Abbott had this to say recently:

Like Santa Claus, the prime minister is popular because he has never taken anything away. Sooner or later, though, the accumulated surpluses of the former government will have been spent and the government will lack the capacity to borrow more without raising interest rates. The prime minister would have it that his superior economic management has saved Australia from a recession. Instead of a Rudd recession, he warns us, we will have a Rudd recovery with higher interest rates, business closures, more unemployment and government spending cuts that will make it seem like the recession we supposedly avoided. Everyone who wants the best for our country has to hope that Mr Rudd really is the first world leader to have abolished the booms and busts of the business cycle but it’s hard to avoid the suspicion that his real expertise is in spin rather than economics.

Chickens are coming home to roost?


----------



## noco (3 August 2009)

*Should Rudd be allowed to take over the State Hospitals?*

To my knowledge, Federal Governments have talked about taking over the States Hospital System for two decades, but none have dared to impliment it.

I have advocated for many years the reason why we do not need to double up on Health and Education; both need to be under the one umbrella for simplistic reasons. However, if the Federal Government were to take over the Hospital System, each hospital  should  be administrated by a board consisting of Doctors, Senior Nurses, a Hospital Financial Administrator, a Local Government member and perhaps a prominent Business person. People who  know what the real requirements of  a Hospital   in preference to Politicians and Bureaucrats who have little or no knowledge.  Many years ago, Hospitals were run by Boards and financed from the proceeds of the GOLDEN CASKET.

I believe the reason why the health systems is in such disarray throughout Australia is because we have Governments, both Federal and States, trying to run the system with personal who have no experince or education in how a Hospital operates.

If you break your arm or have a heart attack, do you  go to Veterinary Surgeon?
If you have a tooth ache do you go to a plumber to fix it?

Are you getting my "DRIFT"?

Yes, I am for one system but it has to be  handled in a proper manner or else we will  stay in the same  mess that currently exists.


----------



## keatir (3 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

All i can say is that I heard a story about him being locked in a strongroom at the Australian Embassy in Beijing when he was there on posting. Shame they let him out.


----------



## trainspotter (3 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

More rhetoric and broken promises. This time on health. Ho hum. When we will wake up to this compulsive prevaricator of the truth?

*Prime Minister Kevin Rudd says there will be no decision on health reform in the next six months, after a Federal Government health review recommended sweeping changes in a landmark report released today.*

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/27/2637169.htm


----------



## trainspotter (3 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

The sooner he checks out of this place the better. IMO


----------



## noco (4 August 2009)

*Re: Should Rudd be allowed to take over the State Hospitals?*

Rudd paid a whistle stop visit to Townsville yesterday on his way to the Pacific forum in Cairns.

A few doctors were given less than 24 hours notice to meet KRudd at the Townsville Hosiptal. Most could not make it because of prior commitments. Little doubt KRudd did not want to get his wax filled ear bashed by the locals. Very secretive vist indeed but the publicity made  him look  like he was doing something for Townsville's depleted hospital system; more spin by the weasel.

Front page on the Townsville Bulletin shows a young girl  with Rudd, who says " I don't know who you are but I know you are very important".


----------



## Calliope (4 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

*Four arrested as 400 police mount counter terrorism raids*



> The four arrested are all Australian citizens, police say. They are being interviewed and several others are assisting with inquiries, a joint press release said.



http://www.smh.com.au/national/four...nt-counter-terrorism-raids-20090804-e7ic.html


Mr Rudd says Australia is not immune from terrorist attacks. I'm not surprised when we make it so easy for for terrorists to enter Australia from such places as the Middle East, Somalia and Sri Lanka under the guise of asylum seekers and then gain citizenship.


----------



## trainspotter (4 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Rudd finally delivers on Grocery Watch


----------



## MrBurns (4 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> *Four arrested as 400 police mount counter terrorism raids*
> 
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/national/four...nt-counter-terrorism-raids-20090804-e7ic.html
> ...




Simon Overland made a big point of stressing that the Muslim community are a valued part of Australian society (those arrested were Muslim)

Valued ? 

Some sections of Lebanese youth are some of the most vicious and violent people on the planet and I don't know why.


----------



## Happy (4 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> Simon Overland made a big point of stressing that the Muslim community are a valued part of Australian society (those arrested were Muslim)
> 
> Valued ?
> 
> Some sections of Lebanese youth are some of the most vicious and violent people on the planet and I don't know why.





One day 400 Police might not be as lucky, so as we!


----------



## Buckeroo (6 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Thought I'd bring this thread back to the top - just love giving it to KRudd especially after seeing him in the news!

So here goes:

KRudds a scum sucking smerker, round faced toe rag, google eyed maggot, white haired lying turd & a big bore!

Ahhhh, all better

Cheers


----------



## knocker (6 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

**** yer:







or




	

		
			
		

		
	
or 





or lets just nuke all the above


----------



## trainspotter (6 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Aaaaaaaah my vengeful fellow Libertarians. In this steroid riddled Fabian society that Herr Rudd has developed with the 800 million spent on consultants he has effectively claimed to be Ruler by proxy. Pontius Pilate style he has washed his hands of the whole Utegate affair and bathed himself in rose petal oils yet again. The media clamour at his feet waiting for tid bits to fall from his mouth to be treated as manna from heaven to be splashed across the newsprint with enough vigour and vim to crankstart a 5 litre Lister engine. Kruddy747 has criticised Turnbull in a China shop for relying on Godwin Grech BUT is this not the same psychiatrically challenged Treasury official who was in charge of 2 billion dollars for Ozcar ? Or is it a classic example of the lunatics running the asylum? 

_THE Auditor-General, Ian McPhee, has ... found Treasury wanting in its handling of Godwin Grech, saying it had over-relied on the bureaucrat. He should have received more help to implement OzCar, devised to provide financial guarantees to car dealers affected by the global financial crisis. _

Mr Swan with great delectation reported to the assembles masses that 100's of pages of documentation were being sent to his own private home fax. But he did not read them all and did not know the outcomes. Mr Rudd stood up in parliament and said "Neither I, nor my office, have ever made any representations on his behalf," this statement has been chosen to have a dose of truth about it from the AG. The cleaners have come in and whitewashed the walls of democracy yet again. Shame Australia Shame.

Now before all you bib and brace wearing, card carrying communists, "hell no we won't go" kind of people get on your high horses and start charging at the windmills before you, let it be known that if this has upset you enough to want to reply, please ensure your seat is in the upright position, your seatbelt is buckled up and observe the no smoking sign. Tally Ho .... the game is afoot !!


----------



## Macquack (6 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Trainspotter, what are you going on about?

Anyway, you promised to retire.


trainspotter said:


> And on this note I bid you all adieu as my OCD is now satisfied. See you all later and thanks very much for having me. It was fun. Goodbye.


----------



## MrBurns (6 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Macquack said:


> Trainspotter, what are you going on about?
> 
> Anyway, you promised to retire.




How could he leave ?, as Chopper would say , so much left to do so many dickheads left unstabbed.


----------



## queenslander55 (6 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> Aaaaaaaah my vengeful fellow Libertarians. In this steroid riddled Fabian society that Herr Rudd has developed with the 800 million spent on consultants he has effectively claimed to be Ruler by proxy. Pontius Pilate style he has washed his hands of the whole Utegate affair and bathed himself in rose petal oils yet again. The media clamour at his feet waiting for tid bits to fall from his mouth to be treated as manna from heaven to be splashed across the newsprint with enough vigour and vim to crankstart a 5 litre Lister engine. Kruddy747 has criticised Turnbull in a China shop for relying on Godwin Grech BUT is this not the same psychiatrically challenged Treasury official who was in charge of 2 billion dollars for Ozcar ? Or is it a classic example of the lunatics running the asylum?
> 
> _THE Auditor-General, Ian McPhee, has ... found Treasury wanting in its handling of Godwin Grech, saying it had over-relied on the bureaucrat. He should have received more help to implement OzCar, devised to provide financial guarantees to car dealers affected by the global financial crisis. _
> 
> ...




...and you were glad to say goodbye to this behomoth swimming in a sea of minnows...ppppfffft!!!!!


----------



## Buckeroo (6 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Macquack said:


> Trainspotter, what are you going on about?
> 
> Anyway, you promised to retire.




Hope not, Transpotter keeps the commie hoards at bay - it would be an absolute tragedy to see this site generate into a KRudd socialist spin outlet!

Besides, ASF would be a bit less colorful without TS's comedic threads.

Cheers


----------



## MrBurns (6 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Buckeroo said:


> Hope not, Transpotter keeps the commie hoards at bay - it would be an absolute tragedy to see this site generate into a KRudd socialist spin outlet!
> 
> Besides, ASF would be a bit less colorful without TS's comedic threads.
> 
> Cheers




Agree


----------



## nunthewiser (6 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Kevin Rudd is great , he is my whole idea of what a great leader should be, he is the chosen one . 

shame on you asf


----------



## Buckeroo (6 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



nunthewiser said:


> Kevin Rudd is great , he is my whole idea of what a great leader should be, he is the chosen one .
> 
> shame on you asf




Good for you nunthewiser...glad to see Rudd does inspire confidence in at least one person in this country.

I have to admit if the Libs bring in Robb as their leader, we may have to change the title on this thread....swap the word Rudd for Robb.

Cheers


----------



## nunthewiser (6 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

i also think Bob hawke was a strong and fearless leader and is an excellent role model for all these nancy boy cry baby pollies we get these days 

.... just in case anyone missed the tone in my last post


----------



## johnnyg (6 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theworldne...rs-tough-guy-image-with-shirtless-photos.html

Whether the above is just a publicity stunt or not, to me that oozes confidence!  Might even be a little bit of man love sneaking in there.


----------



## LeeTV (6 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Rudd inspires a remake of the Thunderbirds


----------



## MrBurns (6 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Just watching QandA Julia Gillard just does not SHUT UP.

Droning on about the education revolution but no one there can see anything thats happened except words.
It is all BS

Malcolm Turnbull is doing well, it's not very often you get to see him get more than a sentence out because of media sound bite practices but he's doing very well tonight.


----------



## Uncle Barry (6 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

"i also think Bob hawke was a strong and fearless leader and is an excellent role model for all these nancy boy cry baby pollies we get these days "

Sorry you joke wasn't funny.
As you must not know ANYTHING about the fellow called Hawke !


----------



## nunthewiser (6 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Uncle Barry said:


> "i also think Bob hawke was a strong and fearless leader and is an excellent role model for all these nancy boy cry baby pollies we get these days "
> 
> Sorry you joke wasn't funny.
> As you must not know ANYTHING about the fellow called Hawke !





knows quite a bit about hawke and the keating years actually 

hawke was a good leader in my view but a lil bit oversensitive in the public eye  

sorry for upsetting you with my comment and i will now go shed a tear and light a candle


----------



## MrBurns (7 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Therese Rein was released from hospital, apparently she was gorging herself with caviar as they do each night in the Lodge when her husband told her about the national debt and how the electorate was so stupid they didnt realise how bad it was and he was doing better in the polls than ever so the secret to success is borrow a ****eload of money in someone elses name and give it to them as if it's a gift and they'll love you for it even though they will be the ones paying it back.

She laughed so much she choked and even a half bottle of Bollinger couldnt wash it down so she went to hospital for the night.

True.........


----------



## Julia (7 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I did find it astonishing that Ms Rein's having spent the night in Cairns Hospital because of a GI upset was the lead item on the ABC Radio news this morning.


----------



## Calliope (7 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I think they should check out the food served by the RAAF cabin staff on the flight to Cairns. They have a habit of giving her spouse the sh..s.


----------



## Buckeroo (13 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Well I wondered how long it would take. KRudd is watering down the anti-terrorist laws!

And we all know what happened when he watered down the illegal immigrant laws!

Cheers


----------



## MrBurns (13 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

From NineMSN - 


> Household misery ahead as government ends handouts
> 12/08/2009 8:30:00 AM
> 
> By Emma Thelwell, ninemsn Money
> ...


----------



## trainspotter (14 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

*"Let them eat cake"*

The quote, as attributed to Marie Antoinette, was claimed to have been uttered during one of the famines that occurred in France during the reign of her husband Louis XVI. Upon being alerted that the people were suffering due to widespread bread shortages, she is said to have replied, "Then let them eat cake." This type of callousness on the part of the government has often been referred to in writings about the possible factors that led to the Australian people voting them out of office. Oooooooooohhh the delicious irony of it !!


----------



## trainspotter (14 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

"Nothing to fear .... we have it all under control" Edward John Smith, Captain of the unsinkable ship "Titanic."

The political and intellectual landscape is changing. Fast. A decade of bipartisan fiscal populism anathematising government debt - even for the obviously sensible purpose of building assets - has evaporated as the world’s governments scramble to rescue their economies.

The next casualty might be - might have to be - our complacency about net foreign debt, which was 38 per cent of GDP or just less than $200 billion on the debt truck in 1996. Last sighted at $658 billion or about 60 per cent of GDP, it will surge as we prime the economy (stimulus packages) while demand for our exports falters. Our current account deficit (CAD) - already smacking gobs at 6 per cent, will soon be gasting flabbers at 9 per cent of GDP.

"The economic recovery, however, will be a long, tough and bumpy road with many twists and turns. We will still see rising unemployment, even after the recovery gets under way, because it takes a long time for positive sentiment to flow through to positive investment and to positive employment. Moreover, as the recovery unfolds, most economists believe that we are likely to see interest rates moving up again from record lows. As the recovery strengthens, the Government will implement its plan to return the budget to surplus, which will mean tough decisions, unpopular decisions and budget cuts." Kevin Michael Rudd, Captain of the good ship "Credit Card"


----------



## trainspotter (21 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Well ... no not really. After several days in parliament being asked if the 2m luxury CGT would DEFINITELY be ruled out and no straight answer forthcoming then NO. He does not. Reminds me of this guy a little bit.


----------



## knocker (21 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Or even this guy lo
l


----------



## Buckeroo (22 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



knocker said:


> Or even this guy lo




Yeah? I reckon the guy in the bottom photo looks a lot more believable!


----------



## trainspotter (29 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Continuing the parody of "lookalikes"


----------



## trainspotter (29 August 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Nevermind about Kruddy. Let's all listen to Julia Gillard.

Ms Gillard claims this is standard practice for government capital works programs on both sides of politics.

“In these guideline changes we're showing additional *flexibility *about completion dates and obviously when you're showing that *flexibility* it is mirrored in an increased *flexibility *for the signage,” she told the ABC.

“We're just showing *flexibility* in completion dates and consequently *flexibility* with the signage.” 

Geee ...... I wonder if she is fexible on this matter?


----------



## knocker (6 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

More money well spent:

http://www.theage.com.au/national/now-its-the-ministry-of-polishing-the-pms-blog-20090905-fc57.html

go Kruddy you useless piece of excrement.


----------



## Quincy (8 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

*Rudd funnels stimulus to marginal seats*

_Tuesday, 08 September 2009 | The Australian Financial Review | Angus Grigg and Sam McKeith _



> Marginal electorates and federal Labor seats have benefited disproportionately from infrastructure spending.


----------



## trainspotter (8 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

* shock horror * What a surprise ! Libs did it as well in marginal seats and it was called "pork barreling". Labor does it and it is called "responsible fiscal policy". Come the revolution comrades ! We will all be broke soon.


----------



## Mr J (8 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



knocker said:


> More money well spent:
> 
> http://www.theage.com.au/national/now-its-the-ministry-of-polishing-the-pms-blog-20090905-fc57.html
> 
> go Kruddy you useless piece of excrement.




Who pocketed 170k for doing some work on a website? Not a bad day's work.


----------



## stocksontheblock (8 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

In respect to the thread title: not a hope in this world does he!!!

Ohhh ... and does Mr Dudd remind anyone else of another “leader", Mr Flair?

1. Both young and up and coming.
2. Wives had so much money before politics that they were just a glorified house husband with job on the side.
3. Both creating (in Dudd's case), created (in Flair's case) a nanny state.
4. Both are dictatorial socialists (yes an oxymoron)
5. Both think they know what’s best
6. Both think they know what’s best for us
7. Both impose what they think they know is best for us, on us
8. Both want to be world leaders
9. Both think they are world leaders
10. Both believe when they leave politics’ (in Dudd's case), and have left politics’ (in Flair's case) they should go on to be first President of the Universe.

And the similarities go on and on and on and on ...

P.S. Look what happened to the U.K.


----------



## Julia (8 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Well, we're apparently out of step with most of the population.  His popularity continues to increase.

Perhaps this might change when the extra taxes and charges start rolling in an attempt to pay for the much admired stimulus.


----------



## stocksontheblock (8 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> Well, we're apparently out of step with most of the population.  His popularity continues to increase.
> 
> Perhaps this might change when the extra taxes and charges start rolling in an attempt to pay for the much admired stimulus.




My god, there’s more to come! Just read this little piece in the Oz:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26041434-5013871,00.html

As for Paul Kelly's book, well I am sure if it had been an appalling indictment of the H/K yrs then he wouldn’t have been there, yet we all know which side of the fence P Kelly sits.

I particularly like the header intro: KEVIN Rudd has declared himself the inheritor of the reformist zeal of the Hawke-Keating years, vowing to unleash a new wave of economic reform and social progress.

I guess he thinks he know’s more of what we need and should have even though we didn’t know we needed or wanted it in the first place.


----------



## moXJO (8 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Sorry closed the link and lost it. Its on most news sites



> PRIME Minister Kevin Rudd is trying to rewrite history with "breathtaking dishonesty," Malcolm Turnbull told the coalition party room today in what observers called a "fighting speech".
> 
> Mr Rudd used the launch of the book - The March of Patriots by The Australian's Editor-at-Large Paul Kelly - to claim the mantle of reform for the ALP, slamming the Howard government's time in office as "indolent" years.
> 
> ...




Turnbull needs to keep pressure on Rudd’s spin. And hopefully be able to portray it as something more sinister to the public then just the usual political BS. Although Turnbull isn't that adept at polishing turds, maybe he will just stick to rolling them in glitter.


----------



## Mr J (8 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> Well, we're apparently out of step with most of the population.  His popularity continues to increase.




I feel like one of those traders who is waiting for the market to collapse, only to see it rally and rally. Maybe I'm wrong about Mr Rudd, and I just haven't been able to see him for the glorious leader that he is? No, I don't think so. I'm stumped on how so many fall for Rudd's tricks. An individual is intelligent, but mass them together and they're as sharp as a door knob.



			
				moXJO said:
			
		

> Turnbull needs to keep pressure on Rudd’s spin. And hopefully be able to portray it as something more sinister to the public then just the usual political BS. Although Turnbull isn't that adept at polishing turds, maybe he will just stick to rolling them in glitter.




Am I the only one that thinks Rudd should have been completely destroyed since he came to office? I don't think I can put it down to just poor politics. Malcom may not be the world's best politician, but I think the media and public are as much to blame. I remember last Christmas one of my cousins told me what a great job Rudd had done . He is a Labor man, so it sounds like a case of letting his blind, political allegiance control his judgement. Multiply that by 10+ million...


----------



## MrBurns (8 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Rudd knows what he's doing, cheques in the mail and he will be re elected, he's dangerous, he wont be tossed out till it's too late and the spend policies have done their damage.


----------



## moXJO (8 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Mr J said:


> I feel like one of those traders who is waiting for the market to collapse, only to see it rally and rally. Maybe I'm wrong about Mr Rudd, and I just haven't been able to see him for the glorious leader that he is? No, I don't think so. I'm stumped on how so many fall for Rudd's tricks. An individual is intelligent, but mass them together and they're as sharp as a door knob.
> 
> 
> 
> Am I the only one that thinks Rudd should have been completely destroyed since he came to office? I don't think I can put it down to just poor politics. Malcom may not be the world's best politician, but I think the media and public are as much to blame. ...




I know what you mean. But Rudd's use of the media to his advantage. And the whole labor politicians attempt to gain celebrity status on popular TV shows, seems to have done a decent job of ingraining labor as the good guys. Followed by a lot of spin by Rudd to cover over any truths. Winning formula so far. People seem to be eating it up and calling it ice cream.


----------



## noco (8 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> Rudd knows what he's doing, cheques in the mail and he will be re elected, he's dangerous, he wont be tossed out till it's too late and the spend policies have done their damage.




It's only a matter of time when the chickens come home to roast that the "MUMS AND DADS", (you know the ones Rudd always talks about as being so important) will start to realise just how worse off they are.  

Wait till the ETS kicks in  and only then  will they see how much it will affect their hip pocket.


----------



## trainspotter (12 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Did anyone watch the AFL football last night? The dumbing down of the nation has begun. PM Kevin Rudd preamble before the game about how MIGHTY the Brisbane Bears are and then a retort by Julia Gillard for the Bulldogs made my skin crawl and want to VOMIT. Shouldn't they be off running the country? Did anyone else notice that the football PM Rudd was tossing around was FLAT? Brisbane got rolled by 51 points. Hopefully the same thing will happen to him at the next election. I doubt it though. The mass media cannot get enough of this PIE FACED, prevaricating, attention wh0re.


----------



## MrBurns (12 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> Did anyone watch the AFL football last night? The dumbing down of the nation has begun. PM Kevin Rudd preamble before the game about how MIGHTY the Brisbane Bears are and then a retort by Julia Gillard for the Bulldogs made my skin crawl and want to VOMIT. Shouldn't they be off running the country? Did anyone else notice that the football PM Rudd was tossing around was FLAT? Brisbane got rolled by 51 points. Hopefully the same thing will happen to him at the next election. I doubt it though. The mass media cannot get enough of this PIE FACED, prevaricating, attention *****.




Most Aussie blokes wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire, it's the handouts that are keeping him afloat, so they will keep coming no matter what it costs us, especially before the next election.


----------



## nunthewiser (12 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Rudd is great , as voted by the  *majority* of the nation ....... will be the same next election 

aint life a biitch


----------



## MrBurns (12 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



nunthewiser said:


> Rudd is great , as voted by the  *majority* of the nation ....... will be the same next election
> 
> aint life a biitch




They should judge the election result on the number of brain cells that vote for a pollititian, in Rudds case the majority of people might have voted for him but a vast minority of total brain cells.


----------



## trainspotter (12 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



nunthewiser said:


> Rudd is great , as voted by the  *majority* of the nation ....... will be the same next election
> 
> aint life a biitch




Spilled my champagne when I read this Nun ! LOLOL. Don't feed the trolls ! The psychophantic way that Julia was grovelling off every word was enough for me to upchuck on the spot. Nearly as bad as the banter on the Today show between Mel & Koshie. The stupid, it burns ! Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuccccckkkkkkkkkeeeeeet !!


----------



## Uncle Barry (12 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Good evening Train man
You should be able to hear me laughing from over there, 

Thats when I saw Kev and the herd that thinks that way

and they will till
they find they have to pay a hell of a tax for his ego driven games ! 

Kind regards,
UB


----------



## nunthewiser (12 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

 heheheheheheheh 

sorry guys but i do love pointing out that rudd is YOUR (being the australian voting public ) chosen leader


----------



## nunthewiser (12 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

careful with that champers ole chap


----------



## MrBurns (12 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



nunthewiser said:


> heheheheheheheh
> 
> sorry guys but i do love pointing out that rudd is YOUR (being the australian voting public ) chosen leader




Not mine - they used to rubbish Howard for being a nerd, Rudd makes Howard look like an action hero.


----------



## Happy (12 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



> From Nine MSN
> 
> BOAT SPARKS COALITION BORDER LAWS CALL
> 17:30 AEST Sat Sep 12 2009
> ...





Rudd should put more emphasis on ORDERLY immigration.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (12 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Ole Kev07 does inspire confidence in the majority of people at present.

gg


----------



## Timmy (15 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> Ole Kev07 does inspire confidence in the majority of people at present.
> 
> gg




You're not wrong GG, though 'thumping majority' might be more accurate.

From the latest Nielson poll:

_Mr Rudd's approval has risen two points to 70 per cent. He leads as preferred prime minster 69 per cent (up two) to Mr Turnbull's 23 per cent (down one)._

70 per cent!  Amazing.


----------



## MrBurns (15 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Timmy said:


> You're not wrong GG, though 'thumping majority' might be more accurate.
> 
> From the latest Nielson poll:
> 
> ...




Just goes to show what a lazy bunch of morons we are to let this creep mortgage our childrens future and no one really gives a toss as long as there is an increased home grant and a cheque in the mail.

P/S Dont expect an immediate reply from gg, he's absent, in that persona in any case.


----------



## Uncle Barry (15 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I love these so called Polls.

I have never been asked and everybody I ask, have you been asked in any Poll about Kev and his Comrades bunch.

AND EVERYBODY HAS THE VERY SAME answer,

I've never been asked nor has anybody I know !

Have you ever been asked ?

Kind regards,
UB
Just a thought, maybe they are asking Kev's local Branch of the ALP, all the time ?
pps, I bet you have Comrade Goon !


----------



## MrBurns (15 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Australia Post produced a stamp with a photo of Rudd on it but it was a failure because everyone spat on the wrong side.


----------



## nunthewiser (15 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

wow!

70% hey ............

Rudd your the greatest , may you rule for ever


----------



## trainspotter (15 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

"ECONOMISTS say Kevin Rudd has traded off long-term value for money for short-term economic gain with his stimulus package, amid revelations his government has spent about $160,000 for each job saved." The Australian

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,,26074038-5018001,00.html

Piers Akerman writes today that the promises Prime Minister Kevin Rudd made about border protection in the lead up to the 2007 federal election were “complete and utter garbage”:

“Three boats carrying asylum seekers arrived illegally in Australian waters over the past week, making a mockery of Prime Minister Kevin Rudd’s pre-election pledge that he would ‘turn them back’.

“That promise, made during an interview with The Australian’s senior political staffers Paul Kelly and Dennis Shanahan, was rushed into print on Friday, November 23, 2007, the day before the last federal election.

“Every promise made in that interview has been dishonoured.”

Labor leads the Coalition on a two-party-preferred basis by 55 per cent to 45 per cent and on the primary vote by 44 per cent to 40 per cent.

We are being duped and loving it !


----------



## nunthewiser (15 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> "
> We are being duped and loving it !




yep and you watch them line up to vote for him again ..........


strange times we live


----------



## trainspotter (15 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

One of these men has the right ear of God. The other thinks he is God.


----------



## Julia (15 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

The government had lined up the ETS as a trigger for a double dissolution election, but Malcolm Turnbull denied them this with his last minute agreement.

So now they are focusing on the private health rebate changes, just defeated, and vowing to bring this back before the end of the year, even calling Parliament back at considerable cost to vote on it again in December.

Meantime, all of Labor are denying that they are looking for an early election trigger.  Rubbish.  They would like to go to the polls with an early election before having to deliver the next Budget which will surely contain many new taxes and charges to pay for the wasteful largesse delivered so far.

How utterly stupid that we will see essential services, health, education, and god knows what else, cut in order to pay for $900 stimulus cheques that were in many cases wasted, not to mention amounts like $250,000 for a one pupil school!  It just beggars belief.


----------



## moXJO (15 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I can't believe the politicians are the new celebrity try hards. Gracing our TV screens on Rove, master chef and are you smarter than a 5th grader. Then producing copious amounts of BS (well more then usual) during question time or should I say Drama time.

I think the libs need to import some US spin masters, and celebrity character assassins to start denting Rudd’s image. Cause everything the libs are chucking ain't sticking.


----------



## trainspotter (16 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

EGGSACKERY moXJO ... Liberals are notorius for having ill informed advisers hanging off them. Malcolm Turnbull is renknowned for being a self righteous prat who will not listen to anyone else. Labor has the best spin advisers and consultants herding them through the mire of grubby politics. Carefully planned strategists who understand the power of the media and the gestualtions required to woo the public. Liberals look at the whole political landscape as a "business" that requires fixing to become profitable. Labor uses the good ship "Credit Card" to burden us with yet again more debt. The amount they are racking up has melted the plastic it has been swiped so many times. I only hope this recovery or "boom" will be enough to wipe out the interest and the principal to a manageable level when these egalitarians get voted out !


----------



## Duckman#72 (16 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> The government had lined up the ETS as a trigger for a double dissolution election, but Malcolm Turnbull denied them this with his last minute agreement.
> 
> So now they are focusing on the private health rebate changes, just defeated, and vowing to bring this back before the end of the year, even calling Parliament back at considerable cost to vote on it again in December.
> 
> ...




I hate to admit it, but Rudd and his cronies have hit on a masterplan.

They would love for the trigger for an early election to be the Health Insurance Rebate. Can you just imagine the irony!!!?? The Coalition have been "pounding" (with what appears to be a budgie's feather) the Government about spending, spending, spending and not being financial responsible. And then the Coalition turn down the opportunity to save $$$ by not backing Labors position.

I cannot understand how the Coalition cannot be making ground on Rudd over the position of Climate Change alone!!!

Duckman

It is brilliant.


----------



## Julia (16 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Duckman#72 said:


> I cannot understand how the Coalition cannot be making ground on Rudd over the position of Climate Change alone!!!



Well, Duckman, the Coalition aren't making any ground because they are hopelessly divided about their stand on climate change.  The Nationals absolutely oppose the ETS in any form, and think the Coalition should simply vote against it.   

 Turnbull, on the other hand, plus some of his more politically savvy colleagues, recognise that to do this would almost certainly trigger a double dissolution which the government would obviously win.

That would be the death of Turnbull.  

So presumably  he figures he is better to negotiate the ETS with the government, and hopefully allow time to work for him as the electorate gradually realises the extra taxes and charges (a) involved in the ETS, and (b) imposed in an attempt to get the budget back into surplus after the mighty splurge.

There's no doubt that the government, despite the amazing level of stuff ups in the schools programme etc, are united,  obsessively 'on message', and way more politically competent than the Opposition (sadly).


----------



## Bobby (17 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> Well, Duckman, the Coalition aren't making any ground because they are hopelessly divided about their stand on climate change.  The Nationals absolutely oppose the ETS in any form, and think the Coalition should simply vote against it.
> 
> Turnbull, on the other hand, plus some of his more politically savvy colleagues, recognise that to do this would almost certainly trigger a double dissolution which the government would obviously win.
> 
> ...




Impressed with your handle on most of it


----------



## Duckman#72 (17 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> Well, Duckman, the Coalition aren't making any ground because they are hopelessly divided about their stand on climate change.  The Nationals absolutely oppose the ETS in any form, and think the Coalition should simply vote against it.
> 
> Turnbull, on the other hand, plus some of his more politically savvy colleagues, recognise that to do this would almost certainly trigger a double dissolution which the government would obviously win.
> 
> ...




Hi Julia

I see things slightly differently. I think that Labor loves having the Coalition "all over the place" on Climate Change. But I don't think that Labor want to trigger a double dissolution on the back of Climate Change, on the basis that *IF *the Coalition ever get their act together they might be a voice that resonates with the public.

Things have changed with the publics mood towards climate change but not to the extent that we have become a "Green Voting Nation". 

I hate the idea of Turnbull nuzzling up to Rudd over climate change. Firstly, as it plays into Labors hands, secondly I think it is bad policy and thirdly it shows very little differentiation between the parties. No good being like Rudd!! If you have the same policy as Rudd and he has approval rating of 70%and yours is 25% - you ain't moving into the lodge!!!  There are any number of reasons I wouldn't give Labor the opportunity for an early election but Climate Change wouldn't be one of them. That's why I think Labor are going headfirst into Health Insurance.

I agree with some of the earlier comments about getting some good advisers and spin doctors in. I thought Brendan Nelson made a point yesterday when he likened the Labor stance to climate change to effectively increasing the GST to 12.5%. You start a campaign up like that and it will be amazing how much people might review their position. But, they need to improve their performances.

If the Coalition played it smart it would agree to any policy changes for the Health Insurance Rebate and any other minor policies and stay right away from Climate Change and ETS. Make it known that Labor have called an early election on THAT alone. My bet is that Rudd won't have the balls to do it. Not many political parties have won going into an election on a platform of increased taxes (which is what he is doing), let alone calling an early election to do it!! 

Duckman


----------



## Julia (17 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Duckman#72 said:


> I see things slightly differently. I think that Labor loves having the Coalition "all over the place" on Climate Change. But I don't think that Labor want to trigger a double dissolution on the back of Climate Change, on the basis that *IF *the Coalition ever get their act together they might be a voice that resonates with the public.



 You could well be right.



> Things have changed with the publics mood towards climate change but not to the extent that we have become a "Green Voting Nation".



 I'd have thought public sentiment was moving in the other direction, i.e. more people are now against an ETS, at least prior to Copenhagen, than was the case a year or so ago.



> I hate the idea of Turnbull nuzzling up to Rudd over climate change.



Me too!


> Firstly, as it plays into Labors hands, secondly I think it is bad policy and thirdly it shows very little differentiation between the parties. No good being like Rudd!! If you have the same policy as Rudd and he has approval rating of 70%and yours is 25% - you ain't moving into the lodge!!!  There are any number of reasons I wouldn't give Labor the opportunity for an early election but Climate Change wouldn't be one of them. That's why I think Labor are going headfirst into Health Insurance.



OK, we'll have to agree to differ on this.  I don't think the voting public would cop an election on such a small measure as the health insurance change which is only going to affect a very small proportion of the electorate, but they (reluctantly) would on climate change because (a) there is much more passion about this, and (b) an ETS would affect every single person in Australia.





> I agree with some of the earlier comments about getting some good advisers and spin doctors in. I thought Brendan Nelson made a point yesterday when he likened the Labor stance to climate change to effectively increasing the GST to 12.5%. You start a campaign up like that and it will be amazing how much people might review their position. But, they need to improve their performances.



Yep, they need a tactic like that.  So far they are just floundering and waffling.





> If the Coalition played it smart it would agree to any policy changes for the Health Insurance Rebate and any other minor policies



Completely agree on this.  Not just from the political point of view, but also because to hold out on the health insurance change makes it look too much to the lower demographic in the electorate that the Libs are protecting the wealthy.




> and stay right away from Climate Change and ETS. Make it known that Labor have called an early election on THAT alone. My bet is that Rudd won't have the balls to do it. Not many political parties have won going into an election on a platform of increased taxes (which is what he is doing), let alone calling an early election to do it!!



Good point.  I don't think we'll find out, though, because Turnbull is clearly determined to co-operate on the ETS.

Cheers
Julia


----------



## LonelyTrader (17 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Definitely not!!!  Most of the promises that got him over the line have now been "put on hold".  I have no faith in him at all!  I didn't vote for him either but my preferences went to him - there was no one to vote for - once again!!!  Why can't we have a leader that will stand up and do what's right for once.  Instead of hiding behind their dodgy excuses and trying to sell us crap no one believes!!!


----------



## Duckman#72 (17 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> OK, we'll have to agree to differ on this.  I don't think the voting public would cop an election on such a small measure as the health insurance change which is only going to affect a very small proportion of the electorate, but they (reluctantly) would on climate change because (a) there is much more passion about this, and (b) an ETS would affect every single person in Australia.




I see your point Julia. From an election campaign strategy the Coalition wouldn't have a leg to stand on with regards to Health Insurance.

The big problem in "playing who blinks first" with Rudd is that he would love to go to an early election before next years budget. The full force of the "stimulus package" is yet to be felt. The full force will be felt when the Government wants its money back (starting with Budget 2010) . While he might get knocked around in an early election everything is in his favour. 

* He is so strong in the polls, and 
* Has such a majority
* The Economy is appearing robust
* AND.......the Coalition is, well..........the Coalition  

He might just take the risk anyway. I just can't see any sense for the Coalition taking the "high ground" on an election based on Health Insurance.


----------



## trainspotter (17 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Australian Gothic is a painting by Grant Wood from 1930. Its inspiration came from a cottage designed in the Gothic Revival style with a distinctive upper window and a decision to paint the house along with "the kind of people I fancied should live in that house." The painting shows a PIEFACED egalitarian standing beside a woman whose identity remains ambiguous; she may either be his spinster daughter, as explained by the artist's sister, or the farmer's barren political animal wife. The figures were modeled by the artist's dentist and sister. The woman is dressed in a colonial print apron mimicking 19th century Australiana and the couple are in the traditional roles of men and women, the man's pitchfork symbolizing hard labor (UNION POWER), and the kangaroo over the woman's right shoulder suggesting her true ocker image.


----------



## Aussiejeff (17 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> Australian Gothic is a painting by Grant Wood from 1930. Its inspiration came from a cottage designed in the Gothic Revival style with a distinctive upper window and a decision to paint the house along with "the kind of people I fancied should live in that house." *The painting shows a PIEFACED egalitarian standing beside a woman whose identity remains ambiguous;* she may either be his spinster daughter, as explained by the artist's sister, or the farmer's barren political animal wife. The figures were modeled by the artist's dentist and sister. The woman is dressed in a colonial print apron mimicking 19th century Australiana and the couple are in the traditional roles of men and women, the man's pitchfork symbolizing hard labor (UNION POWER), and the kangaroo over the woman's right shoulder suggesting her true ocker image.




Oh...

For a minute there I thought I was looking at the *King & Queen of Orstralia*!

Rule Ruddania!!


----------



## Julia (17 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Duckman#72 said:


> The big problem in "playing who blinks first" with Rudd is that he would love to go to an early election before next years budget. The full force of the "stimulus package" is yet to be felt. The full force will be felt when the Government wants its money back (starting with Budget 2010) . While he might get knocked around in an early election everything is in his favour.



Exactly and both he and Turnbull know this.



> He might just take the risk anyway. I just can't see any sense for the Coalition taking the "high ground" on an election based on Health Insurance.



I think Mr Turnbull will roll over on pretty much any issue at all because he can't afford an early election before the voters have understood what they are in for with the next Budget.  The government know this absolutely, and so they have Turnbull on toast.


----------



## Mr J (17 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Maybe I'd make for a poor politician, but couldn't an open, crafty politician spin the truths in his or her favour, assuming the meda were to give him or her fair coverage?


----------



## Duckman#72 (17 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Mr J said:


> assuming the meda were to give him or her fair coverage?




That is the sting in the tail of your comment.

Technically, that is correct. I've been involved at a minor level at state politics and was constantly amazed at how a 20min interview was cut to 40secs for the news. And it was always at the discretion of what the media assumed was "important". Good policy rarely makes for "important". Infighting, secrets, disarray, disunity, conflict, swearing,job cuts, inflation, the words "recession" and "depression", makes for "important" in the eyes of the media (at least at the Commercial channel level).

It is one of my pet hates that the media often becomes a "player" in the political game, rather than an observer/reporter. 

I liken the media to a referee in a boxing match. A good one, will keep both opponents honest, make it a clean fight and go mostly unnoticed. Unfortunately the media stink as a neutral referee. Soon as they see blood on one of the opponents, they start punching the poor bastard themselves.

A good example is the position of the ETS. At a general level the media couldn't give a rat's about whether Labors position is a good one. All they care about is that Labor has one (and is united on it), whereas the Coalition don't (and aren't). Apparently it is more newsworthy to have an Opposition without policy, than a Government to have bad policy. 

Duckman


----------



## Mr J (17 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Well that's the catch isn't it - we know the media is biased. There must be a way to combat it though, even the US has Fox News . There has to be a weak link somewhere - radio, news, papers, etc. All it may take for a fire is a well-placed spark.

I can't help but think that Malcom is playing a loser's game. It seems he's waiting for the media to come around, and therefore not playing on his terms.


----------



## Knobby22 (17 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Mr J said:


> Well that's the catch isn't it - we know the media is biased. There must be a way to combat it though, even the US has Fox News . There has to be a weak link somewhere - radio, news, papers, etc. All it may take for a fire is a well-placed spark.
> 
> I can't help but think that Malcom is playing a loser's game. It seems he's waiting for the media to come around, and therefore not playing on his terms.




Oh for the lack of bias of Fox news!

(chortle)


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (17 September 2009)

*Rudd Best PM Since Howard*

Rudd has been very impressive in his choice of office bearers and ambassadors. 

A bipartisan approach gives him much kudos.

He really is doing a good job in saving Australia from recession.

He might even get my and Dharma's vote in the next election.

gg


----------



## nunthewiser (17 September 2009)

*Re: Rudd Best PM Since Howard*

hahahahahahah

Excellent thread title!!

your a star GG


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (17 September 2009)

*Re: Rudd Best PM Since Howard*

Yes nun, he is the best we've got.

Although I have criticised him as a godbotherer,my new lady is a Buddhist and is taking me through a spiritual experience that is both sentient and existential, as you would understand.

I have severely misjudged Mr. Rudd. Dharma although a Green, has a soft spot for him.

gg


----------



## trainspotter (17 September 2009)

*Re: Rudd Best PM Since Howard*

True, he is the master of the current political landscape we have in Banana Republic Land. Skilfull at deflecting any criticisms and expert at wooing the mass media, he is the modern version of Mandrake the Magician. Thus far he has managed to spend, spend, spend his way into our hearts and minds.

It’s becoming increasingly obvious that the Rudd government finds it much easier to spend money than to create value. 

For instance, an official report into the strategic housing programme for Aboriginal people in the Northern Territory showed that $45 million of federal taxpayers’ money had already been spent but not a single extra house had actually been built. The money, it seems, had gone on consultants’ reports and territory government charges. One minister, Alison Anderson, has already resigned from the Territory’s Labor government over this issue, claiming that a consultancy culture and an obsession with spin meant that no improvements were being made to the lives of Aboriginal people. 

CLASSIC RUDD !! There is no real alternative as the opposition is in complete disarray and could not organise a drinking session in an establishment that brews beer.


----------



## noirua (17 September 2009)

*Re: Rudd Best PM Since Howard*

Kevin Rudd is indeed the Prime Minister of the moment, even though for some he may not be the crunchiest biscuit in the tin.


----------



## bigdog (17 September 2009)

*Re: Rudd Best PM Since Howard*

Rudd has been the only PM since Howard!!!


----------



## Mr J (17 September 2009)

*Re: Rudd Best PM Since Howard*



bigdog said:


> Rudd has been the only PM since Howard!!!




A win by default is still a win!


----------



## rhen (17 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Some levity, in case you missed this one doing the email rounds...

My New Truck
_

I bought a new Nissan Navara and returned to the dealer yesterday
because I couldn't get the radio to work.



 The salesman explained that the radio was voice
activated.



'Nelson,' the salesman said to the radio.



The radio replied, 'Ricky or Willie?'



'Willie!' he continued and 'On The Road Again' came from the
speakers.



Then he said, 'Ray Charles!', and in an instant ' Georgia On
My Mind' replaced Willie Nelson.



I drove away happy, and for the next few days, every time I'd say,
'Beethoven,' I'd get beautiful classical music, and if I said,
'Beatles,' I'd get one of their songs.



Yesterday, some guy ran a red light and nearly creamed me, but I swerved in time to avoid them. I yelled, '********!'



Immediately the radio responded with a speech by Kevin Rudd





Damn I LOVE this truck




_

__


----------



## Calliope (22 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

An economist (I missed his name) from the RMIT on AM this morning said that under the $42B stimulus package every job created or saved cost $1.5M. 

He based this figure on what the unemployment rate was prior to the recession compared to what it probably would have risen to without the stimulus.

If I had my druthers, I'd druther have $1.5M in my hand than a job pumping insulation into house ceilings.


----------



## MrBurns (22 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> An economist (I missed his name) from the RMIT on AM this morning said that under the $42B stimulus package every job created or saved cost $1.5M.
> 
> He based this figure on what the unemployment rate was prior to the recession compared to what it probably would have risen to without the stimulus.
> 
> If I had my druthers, I'd druther have $1.5M in my hand than a job pumping insulation into house ceilings.




I wonder what the figure is translated into how much $ per vote bought.


----------



## -Bevo- (22 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> An economist (I missed his name) from the RMIT on AM this morning said that under the $42B stimulus package every job created or saved cost $1.5M.
> 
> He based this figure on what the unemployment rate was prior to the recession compared to what it probably would have risen to without the stimulus.
> 
> If I had my druthers, I'd druther have $1.5M in my hand than a job pumping insulation into house ceilings.




Here's link to news article

http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,27753,26103086-31037,00.html


----------



## Happy (22 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> An economist (I missed his name) from the RMIT on AM this morning said that under the $42B stimulus package every job created or saved cost $1.5M.
> 
> He based this figure on what the unemployment rate was prior to the recession compared to what it probably would have risen to without the stimulus.
> 
> If I had my druthers, I'd druther have $1.5M in my hand than a job pumping insulation into house ceilings.






He borrowed us out of recession, which we will have to have some time later, probably it will be Coalition’s worry not his.

Been like that for years, Labor spends, Coalition saves.


----------



## Julia (22 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

And as long as the Coalition sits on its hands as it's presently doing, nothing will change.

We have the government, and in particular Mr Rudd on the world stage in New York right now, touting the magnificence of his governments' fantastic stimulus package being the sole reason that Australia is the only developed country not in recession (just you wait, Mr Rudd, until it all wears off, huh!).

He conveniently forgets to mention the considerable input the RBA has had in the form of savagely reduced interest rates which would represent for most Australian households a greater financial benefit via cheaper mortgage than any of the stimulus payments.

But so good is the spin of this government, and so silent are the RBA and the Opposition, I reckon Joe Public believes the government made interest rates drop also, or at the very least had some of those quiet back room chats with the Reserve Board members.

The Opposition should also be pointing out how much the ETS is going to cost the average Australian.  Silence on this as well.

What on earth is the matter with Turnbull & Co?  Or is all the media so in love with the government that they're just not reporting the valiant efforts of the opposition to inform the people?  I doubt it, somehow.


----------



## Timmy (23 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Bill Clinton is impressed by Mr. Rudd:

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has been given a huge rap by former US president Bill Clinton who says he is one of the world's smartest leaders.

Over to you Mr Burns, Calliope, et al.  This should be like shooting fish in a barrel.


----------



## Uncle Barry (23 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Bill, gave him Kev a Cigar, he didn't bother to lit it up, just suck on this, he said

Kev, gee mate, I love the flavour, no carbon foot print here, but it tastes like,

Arr, your right, you must be the smartest man on Earth said Bill


----------



## MrBurns (23 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Bill has got a great sense of humour.


----------



## Beej (23 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> We have the government, and in particular Mr Rudd on the world stage in New York right now, touting the magnificence of his governments' fantastic stimulus package being the sole reason that Australia is the only developed country not in recession (just you wait, Mr Rudd, until it all wears off, huh!).




Well we will have to see about what happens when the stimulus "wears off". I think you are mis-understanding the nature of fiscal stimulus and how/why it works. As long as global growth has started again to some extent when fiscal stimulus "wears off" then it is not needed anymore and the AU economy will continue to grow just fine as well from there.



> He conveniently forgets to mention the considerable input the RBA has had in the form of savagely reduced interest rates which would represent for most Australian households a greater financial benefit via cheaper mortgage than any of the stimulus payments.
> 
> But so good is the spin of this government, and so silent are the RBA and the Opposition, I reckon Joe Public believes the government made interest rates drop also, or at the very least had some of those quiet back room chats with the Reserve Board members.




* Interest rate cuts in Australia were and still are reported widely and are a well know factor in softening the blow from the GFC

* Of course lowered rates have a large "stimulus" impact - it's called loser monetary policy, and a standard ammo pack for every central bank on the planet in times of economic downturn. Usually fired along with the other standard ammo pack for governments, fiscal stimulus. Absolutely no surprises there. The big difference in AU is that all this actually worked, and the reason is we avoided the systemic financial collapse that afflicted other economies, meaning our banks remained solvent, continued to lend fairly well and pass on the lower interest rates to customers. Certainly more so than in the US/UK and so on.

* Despite the big interest rate cuts we have had, we still have higher rates than nearly every other country in the G-20. Plus there has been no need for "quantitative easing" here as in the US and UK.

* Anyway, I was told by Mr Howard and the Liberal Party many many times that "interest rates would always be lower under a Liberal government" - so how exactly would he have achieved that? Leaned on the RBA? Ignored the concept of fiscal stimulus in order to ensure economic meltdown, collapsed banks etc like in the US/UK etc so we to could have zero % interest rates and QE here??? Maybe they were actually full of bullsh!t and interest rates are actually set according to economic indicators independently of the government by the RBA board? Tell me it isn't so?????



> The Opposition should also be pointing out how much the ETS is going to cost the average Australian.  Silence on this as well.
> 
> What on earth is the matter with Turnbull & Co?  Or is all the media so in love with the government that they're just not reporting the valiant efforts of the opposition to inform the people?  I doubt it, somehow.




For a start, you better read the Liberals own policy - they support the introduction of an ETS, and they went to the last election with that policy. Turnbull himself was one of the great proponents of this in the cabinet room. Turnbulls problem right now is that his own party (and the coalition) is split on the whole issue, that's why they are flapping around like a discarded carp on the pier..... There is no "valiant effort to inform the people", as the coalition can't decide what they wish to inform the people about!!! 

Cheers,

Beej


----------



## MrBurns (23 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Beej said:


> Well we will have to see about what happens when the stimulus "wears off". I think you are mis-understanding the nature of fiscal stimulus and how/why it works. As long as global growth has started again to some extent when fiscal stimulus "wears off" then it is not needed anymore and the AU economy will continue to grow just fine as well from there.
> 
> * Interest rate cuts in Australia were and still are reported widely and are a well know factor in softening the blow from the GFC
> 
> ...




The Libs never supported spending at these crazy levels, this is just to get votes and when the stimulus wears off dont expect the weak global economy to keep us afloat, if you do you're dreamimg.

Turnbull has to go, it's just a matter of the timing.
He's not rat cunning like Heir Rudd.


----------



## MrBurns (23 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

AND - something else, Rudd's way ahead as preferred PM but the ALP is not far ahead of the Libs, 45% to 55%. after all the stimulus and handouts too.

If the Libs had the right leader the ALP would be toast.


----------



## Kash Kosmo (23 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I have no bias against any political party 
As long as they think of the country & its people first 

I don't consider the Australian Labour Party as an individual entity 
They are in fact the political wing of the many Unions 

If the Australian Labour Party was to stand on its own feet it would probably fail 

Just look at the line up of ministers, quite a few have come up the ranks of a union  

Please note I have no animosity against Unions per say 
Simply put - they are just not good at running a country 

KK


----------



## moXJO (23 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Kash Kosmo said:


> Please note I have no animosity against Unions per say
> Simply put - they are just not good at running a country
> 
> KK




They are not good at running anything.


----------



## Beej (23 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> AND - something else, Rudd's way ahead as preferred PM but the ALP is not far ahead of the Libs, 45% to 55%. after all the stimulus and handouts too.
> 
> If the Libs had the right leader the ALP would be toast.




Mr Burns - a 10% gap in a poll of the 2 party preferred vote is a MASSIVE lead - if that 55/45 split were reflected in an election, it wuold be an ALP landslide even from there current position. Better leader or not, the Libs have a HUGE amount of ground to make up that 10% two-party preferred swing they would need even to get a cliff-hanger.



Kash Kosmo said:


> Just look at the line up of ministers, quite a few have come up the ranks of a union




If you call going to Sydney university (or similar), getting a law degree, then a decent paying job as a union lawyer and so on as "climbing the ranks for the union", then sure you might be right!!!!!  I think you will find most people who pursue this sort of career path do so because they care (at least a little bit) about helping ordinary people not get trodden all over by the big end of town? It is of course also a well trodden path into a career in Labor politics....



> Please note I have no animosity against Unions per say
> Simply put - they are just not good at running a country




Neither are small-time suburban lawyers (John Howard), small business people (fish and chip shop owners etc). But surely they, and the unions, all deserve representation in the political system somewhere?? For the unions it's the Labor party.

PS: How many people know that Kim Beasley and Bob Hawke were both Rhodes Scolars at Oxford?? Both became union lawyers at various career stages as well. Malcom Turnbull was also a Rhodes Scholar - he became a big end of town lawyer and investment banker - they are all cut from the same mould mate....

Cheers,

Beej


----------



## Kash Kosmo (23 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Beej said:


> Neither are small-time suburban lawyers (John Howard), small business people (fish and chip shop owners etc). But surely they, and the unions, all deserve representation in the political system somewhere?? For the unions it's the Labor party.
> 
> PS: How many people know that Kim Beasley and Bob Hawke were both Rhodes Scolars at Oxford?? Both became union lawyers at various career stages as well. Malcom Turnbull was also a Rhodes Scholar - he became a big end of town lawyer and investment banker - they are all cut from the same mould mate....
> 
> ...




Yes that is called democracy
Different people representing a point of view
Its also called life experience

The question is 
Should the Labour party be a separate entity 

Government of any persuasion should govern for all the people not for the organisation or groups that helped them get there 

All political parties have good and bad policies 
And all political parties are gullible to outside influence  

And the media is one of the worst 
Constant popularity contests between leaders is getting out of hand 

Politicians are elected public servants and paid from the public purse 
KK


----------



## Julia (23 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Beej said:


> Well we will have to see about what happens when the stimulus "wears off". I think you are mis-understanding the nature of fiscal stimulus and how/why it works. As long as global growth has started again to some extent when fiscal stimulus "wears off" then it is not needed anymore and the AU economy will continue to grow just fine as well from there.



The essential phrase here is "as long as global growth has started again..."





> * Interest rate cuts in Australia were and still are reported widely and are a well know factor in softening the blow from the GFC
> 
> * Of course lowered rates have a large "stimulus" impact - it's called loser monetary policy, and a standard ammo pack for every central bank on the planet in times of economic downturn. Usually fired along with the other standard ammo pack for governments, fiscal stimulus. Absolutely no surprises there. The big difference in AU is that all this actually worked, and the reason is we avoided the systemic financial collapse that afflicted other economies, meaning our banks remained solvent, continued to lend fairly well and pass on the lower interest rates to customers. Certainly more so than in the US/UK and so on.
> 
> * Despite the big interest rate cuts we have had, we still have higher rates than nearly every other country in the G-20. Plus there has been no need for "quantitative easing" here as in the US and UK.



I'm quite aware of all that.  My point was to do with Mr Rudd's grandstanding on the global stage, suggesting that  the predominant reason Australia has been such an outstanding success (so far) is his fantastic stimulus package.  I have not heard him in the same speeches even mention interest rates.





> * Anyway, I was told by Mr Howard and the Liberal Party many many times that "interest rates would always be lower under a Liberal government" - so how exactly would he have achieved that? Leaned on the RBA? Ignored the concept of fiscal stimulus in order to ensure economic meltdown, collapsed banks etc like in the US/UK etc so we to could have zero % interest rates and QE here??? Maybe they were actually full of bullsh!t and interest rates are actually set according to economic indicators independently of the government by the RBA board? Tell me it isn't so?????



I have no idea.   I'm not responsible for anything Mr Howard may or may not have said.  I am not a dyed in the wool Liberal voter.  I simply despise the level of spin in which Mr Rudd is currently indulging.







> For a start, you better read the Liberals own policy - they support the introduction of an ETS, and they went to the last election with that policy. Turnbull himself was one of the great proponents of this in the cabinet room. Turnbulls problem right now is that his own party (and the coalition) is split on the whole issue, that's why they are flapping around like a discarded carp on the pier..... There is no "valiant effort to inform the people", as the coalition can't decide what they wish to inform the people about!!!



I entirely agree about your last point and have been saying the same thing.
They do not, however, support the government's ETS in its current form and I understand are in the process of putting up amendments.

A few weeks ago Turnbull came up with some plan which he claimed would be cheaper and more environmentally effective.  This was dismissed out of hand by the government who refused to even read his suggestions.
I have no idea whether his plan was sensible or not.  Certainly the ETS as it stands appears to be well and truly flawed but the government are determined to force it through prior to Copenhagen*for their own political reasons*.

Perhaps you could outline why - if in fact you do agree with the government's urgency to pass this legislation - it is necessary to do so before having some understanding of global decisions made at Copenhagen (if any) which is a mere few months away?




MrBurns said:


> He's not rat cunning like Heir Rudd.



That's true.  For all Malcolm Turnbull's experience in business, he lacks the political nous so amply demonstrated by Rudd.


----------



## Calliope (23 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Clinton discovers Rudd is a toxic bore;




> "He told me he really didn't know much about America; like most Australian politicians who know more about America than they know about Australia, that's what he told me Sunday when we were talking," Mr Clinton said.
> 
> "*He then proceeded to describe in excruciating detail *George Washington's strategy to hold New York in the revolutionary War"


----------



## MrBurns (23 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Clinton discovers Rudd is a toxic bore;




Excruciating detail, thats him all over, the only good thing about Rudd being PM is that he hasn't got the time to post in here.


----------



## greggy (23 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Being a swinging voter, I'm not tied to one party or another. Having said that, I think that Rudd is generally still liked and respected by most voters. I too think he's doing a good job under the current circumstances. His popularity reminds me of Bob Hawke after he won the 83 election. His honeymoon period also lasted for a while.  
With the Liberals in tatters, hopelessly divided, there's currently no alternative. This is a pity as IMO Turnbull would make a good PM one day. He's trying to return his party to the political centre yet right-wingers keep on undermining him on a number of policy positions.


----------



## Kalvin (23 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

OK, so would your SERIOUSLY prefer Tony Abbott as PM?  If so you have better convert to Catholiciscm. And what about Malcolm Turnbull?  He can hardly even unite his own party behind him let alone anyone else.  Bishop? Give me a break. Joe Hockey? Lovely guy, but has he got the intellectual horsepower?  Wilson "Ironbar" Tuckey? Get real.
I'm not Kev's biggest fan either, but you would have to admit the alternative is pretty dire.


----------



## Mr J (23 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



greggy said:


> I too think he's doing a good job under the current circumstances.






I know many people would agree with you, and I find that amazing. Would you mind stating why you think he is doing a good job?


----------



## Beej (23 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> Excruciating detail, thats him all over, the only good thing about Rudd being PM is that he hasn't got the time to post in here.




I don't know? His posts might bring a certain amount of "programmatic specificity" to the forum???? 

To Julia: Yes I agree I don't quite know why the ETS rush either. I suspect as you state it is due to political motivation - but they did say they would do it during the election campaign so no surprise right? I also think the impact of the ETS, like the GST is being massively over-played by it's political opponents and once done will just become part of the fabric like the GST has..... What I hope for is some truly global action.

Cheers,

Beej


----------



## wayneL (23 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Beej said:


> I don't know? His posts might bring a certain amount of "programmatic specificity" to the forum????
> 
> To Julia: Yes I agree I don't quite know why the ETS rush either. I suspect as you state it is due to political motivation - but they did say they would do it during the election campaign so no surprise right? I also think the impact of the ETS, like the GST is being massively over-played by it's political opponents and once done will just become part of the fabric like the GST has..... What I hope for is some truly global action.
> 
> ...



Me too. 

But ETS is the wrong strategy for the wrong problem.


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (24 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

The Liberal Kroger has an interesting take on KRudd:http://australianconservative.com/main-site/2009/09/kroger-next-election-will-be-rudds-last/


----------



## MrBurns (24 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



It's Snake Pliskin said:


> The Liberal Kroger has an interesting take on KRudd:http://australianconservative.com/main-site/2009/09/kroger-next-election-will-be-rudds-last/




The Labor party have him worked out now it's the Australian public's turn.


----------



## Calliope (24 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

As usual when Kevin addresses the United Nations Assembly, they stay away in droves. Apparently they don't like the way he turns his back on them when he talks.



> Foreign Minister Stephen Smith and Climate Change Minister Penny Wong were in the audience, but many seats in the auditorium remained empty



.

They would have copped a few expletives if they hadn't turned up.


----------



## Calliope (24 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Timmy said:


> Bill Clinton is impressed by Mr. Rudd:
> 
> Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has been given a huge rap by former US president Bill Clinton who says he is one of the world's smartest leaders.
> 
> Over to you Mr Burns, Calliope, et al.  This should be like shooting fish in a barrel.




No comment needed Timmy. Immediately after this big rap, Clinton immediately  forgot who he was and introduced him as "Prime Minister *Rude."*


----------



## MrBurns (24 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I think it's totally unfair that we get rid of the vile little queer for a week or so but he's still in the news, can't we get a break from this insipid humorless treacherous burden on the Australian people for just a week ????????


----------



## greggy (24 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Mr J said:


> I know many people would agree with you, and I find that amazing. Would you mind stating why you think he is doing a good job?




Hi Mr J,

I reckon that Rudd has performed well given the economic climate.  I feel he's been a reassuring figure in difficult times. He's leading a united party.
He got off on the right foot with Aboriginal reconciliation. He also seems to be wanting to do something about climate change whilst his predecessor seemed to be a climate change sceptic.  
On the economic front the stimulus package has improved consumer confidence and he's also provided the banking community with support in relation to his "deposit guarantee". 
He's working with the business commmunity in order to assist us in getting through these hard economic times. He's also called on workers to show restraint by accepting lower pay rises.
The IMF called on nations to put in place stimulus packages around the world. If Turnbull was in power I'm sure he too would have put out a sizable stimulus package. This country isn't going broke thats for sure.  When good times resume we'll need to tighten our belts a little to reduce our debt levels.
Its easy to for people to criticise Mr Rudd but until the Liberals get their act together this country doesn't currently have any other viable option.
Please don't think I'm Turnbull bashing here (I'm a swinging voter). I like the fellow (please my posts on other threads from a couple of years back to realise this), he's from the political centre like myself, but his party isn't giving him support nor are the Nats for that matter.        
So Mr J these are my thoughts, each to their own I suppose.


----------



## noco (24 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> As usual when Kevin addresses the United Nations Assembly, they stay away in droves. Apparently they don't like the way he turns his back on them when he talks.
> 
> .
> 
> They would have copped a few expletives if they hadn't turned up.




Yes Calliope, he was the last speaker with only about 30% of the assembly remaining.

He would not have been a very happy chappie; a total embarrassment if you ask me with Rudd's high ego to become Secretary General; must have been a bit of set back for him with so few remaining to hear his "spin". No doubt many world leaders are starting to realize what he is capable of; empty rhetoric.


----------



## stocksontheblock (24 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



greggy said:


> Hi Mr J,
> 
> I reckon that Rudd has performed well given the economic climate.  I feel he's been a reassuring figure in difficult times. He's leading a united party.
> He got off on the right foot with Aboriginal reconciliation. He also seems to be wanting to do something about climate change whilst his predecessor seemed to be a climate change sceptic.
> ...




Wow ... straight from the ALP handbook me thinks


----------



## Uncle Barry (24 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Hi Greggy Comrade,
What branch do you belong to, comrade?


----------



## noco (24 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



greggy said:


> Hi Mr J,
> 
> I reckon that Rudd has performed well given the economic climate.  I feel he's been a reassuring figure in difficult times. He's leading a united party.
> He got off on the right foot with Aboriginal reconciliation. He also seems to be wanting to do something about climate change whilst his predecessor seemed to be a climate change sceptic.
> ...




The main reason he has so far avoided a recession is because of the sound economic base left by the previous Goverment.

What has he done for Abiriginals except say "sorry"?
There are more aboriginal kids being taken from their homes in the past two years than the number taken 100 years ago. As reported in recent press statements, Jenny Macklin has not provided one house for aboriginals in the NT. Spent a lot of money in administration.

He may have gone to the 2007 election promising to reduce CO2 emissions, however, the harsh ETS  legislation he is trying to force on Australia now was not mentioned prior to the election. This ETS he is trying to push through is nothing more than a tax grab equivalant to a 2.5% INCREASE IN THE GST. Many people have no idea what the ETS even  stands for except the spin Rudd and Wong are pushing that it will reduce CO2 emissions which is far from the truth. I hope the senate throws the whole thing out of the window irrespect of the ammendments Turnbull is trying to achieve.

The stimulus package was far in excess of what was really required. You will be paying it back for years with higher taxes. You ain't seen nothing yet!

The business community are terrified of what Rudd will impose on them down the track. Unfair dismissals, penalty rates for emplyees, overtime rates just to name a few. Who would want to open for business on weekends with that hanging over their heads. The Labor Party has already been warned that fewer workers will be employed  under these conditions. They ask workers to show restraint by accepting lower wages! You have to be joking when the unions are working behind the scene to impose increased wages for weekend workers. You are so naive my friend.

The education revolution promised by Gillard; a lap top for all high school kids. How many have been supplied to date; nobody knows and you are not likely to be told. She forgot about the  provision for IT connections in the schools. The money wasted on Julia Gillard memorial halls in many cases were not needed when other structures would have been utilised better. A  $250,000  library to be built for a one teacher school which was destined to be closed next year; not very smart in my books. She went over budget by some $1.5 billion. Giggle! Giggle! just a bump in the road?

Does Rudd inspire me? I don't think so.


----------



## nunthewiser (24 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I am confident 

Rudd has inspired me


----------



## GumbyLearner (24 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



nunthewiser said:


> I am confident
> 
> Rudd has inspired me




Same here Nun. 

But Keating was still a better ALP leader IMO.


----------



## nunthewiser (24 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



GumbyLearner said:


> Same here Nun.
> 
> But Keating was still a better ALP leader IMO.





hell yeah 

anyone that sticks there arm around the queen while going for the sly feelup gets my vote


----------



## MrBurns (24 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



GumbyLearner said:


> Same here Nun.
> 
> But Keating was still a better ALP leader IMO.




Keating was the king of spin in his day, remember the line "then you switch to vaudeville" ?

Rudd however leaves him for dead.


----------



## nunthewiser (24 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> Keating was the king of spin in his day, remember the line "then you switch to vaudeville" ?
> 
> Rudd however leaves him for dead.




Glad to see  you have finally accepted Rudd as your leader and now beginning to see what an awe inspiring individual he truly is 

onya m8

looking forward to more loving posts on the matter


----------



## MrBurns (24 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



nunthewiser said:


> Glad to see  you have finally accepted Rudd as your leader and now beginning to see what an awe inspiring individual he truly is
> onya m8
> looking forward to more loving posts on the matter




Awe inspiring is right, any pigeon toed ear wax eating vicious little toe rag of a closet homo who can convince Australians he's a good bloke is awe inspiring or does it just mean the Labor party has finally done their job via the teachers union and dumbed Australia down that much that they cant see him for what he is.


----------



## Julia (24 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> Keating was the king of spin in his day, remember the line "then you switch to vaudeville" ?
> 
> Rudd however leaves him for dead.



Keating at least had a sharp wit in total contrast to the bland, boring, droning Rudd.  Even all these years later, I'm always happy to listen to an interview with Paul Keating.




noco said:


> What has he done for Abiriginals except say "sorry"?



Exactly.  He's big on empty rhetoric but fails to follow it up with genuine action.  This is becoming more and more apparent.



> There are more aboriginal kids being taken from their homes in the past two years than the number taken 100 years ago. As reported in recent press statements, Jenny Macklin has not provided one house for aboriginals in the NT. Spent a lot of money in administration.



Again, the window dressing without the substance.



> He may have gone to the 2007 election promising to reduce CO2 emissions, however, the harsh ETS  legislation he is trying to force on Australia now was not mentioned prior to the election. This ETS he is trying to push through is nothing more than a tax grab equivalant to a 2.5% INCREASE IN THE GST. Many people have no idea what the ETS even  stands for except the spin Rudd and Wong are pushing that it will reduce CO2 emissions which is far from the truth.



Even if it were true that 'climate change' is being caused by anthropogenic CO2.



> I hope the senate throws the whole thing out of the window irrespect of the ammendments Turnbull is trying to achieve.



Well, here I disagree.  If the senate throws it out, Rudd has his perfect double dissolution trigger for an early election.  He would unquestionably win this if such an election were to be held prior to the next Budget.
That's why Mr Turnbull is trying to quell the Nationals who want to vote it down.   They are morally right, of course, but politically stupid.
It will get passed through the Senate in November almost certainly.

Then the Coalition will hopefully sort itself out well enough to be able to make hay from the next Budget, by which time equally hopefully the electorate will be starting to wake up to what the stimulus package is going to cost them in new taxes and charges, plus the costs of the ETS.



> The business community are terrified of what Rudd will impose on them down the track. Unfair dismissals, penalty rates for emplyees, overtime rates just to name a few. Who would want to open for business on weekends with that hanging over their heads. The Labor Party has already been warned that fewer workers will be employed  under these conditions. They ask workers to show restraint by accepting lower wages! You have to be joking when the unions are working behind the scene to impose increased wages for weekend workers. You are so naive my friend.
> 
> The education revolution promised by Gillard; a lap top for all high school kids. How many have been supplied to date; nobody knows and you are not likely to be told. She forgot about the  provision for IT connections in the schools. The money wasted on Julia Gillard memorial halls in many cases were not needed when other structures would have been utilised better. A  $250,000  library to be built for a one teacher school which was destined to be closed next year; not very smart in my books. She went over budget by some $1.5 billion. Giggle! Giggle! just a bump in the road?
> 
> Does Rudd inspire me? I don't think so.



And so it goes.   
Greggy, you're entitled to your view, of course.  I'm just a bit surprised that you are so easily taken in by the hollow rhetoric and short term politics.


----------



## Calliope (25 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



> TO one audience, he was a top Australian horseman. To another, he was His Excellency.
> 
> When Kevin Rudd entered the packed grand ballroom of New York's Waldorf Astoria hotel yesterday he apparently had no idea he would be introduced as akin to the Man from Snowy River.
> 
> But Theodore Roosevelt IV, great grandson of the former US president who bears the same name, was determined to highlight the Prime Minister's horse-riding prowess.




http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26121941-5014047,00.html

Wearing riding boots doesn't make you a horseman. It just makes you look like an idiot.


----------



## Putty7 (25 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Rudd, Turnbull, etc etc none of the dropkicks in politics inspire any real leadership, how the snot nosed little grovellers get to the top is beyond me, well aside from the fact that they are snot nosed little grovellers lol, it would be interesting to see the results of how many turn out if they made voting optional and they actually have to inspire someone to get a vote lol


----------



## stocksontheblock (25 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Putty7 said:


> ...how the snot nosed little grovellers get to the top is beyond me...




In the immortal words of Yes Minister:

Sir Humphrey: MP's are not chosen by the people, they're chosen by their local party, thirty five men in grubby raincoats or thirty five women in silly hats.

Bernard: And the government are selected from the best of them.

Sir Humphrey: Bernard, there are only six hundred and thirty MP's. If one party has just over three hundred it forms a government, of that three hundred one hundred are too old and too silly, one hundred are too young and too callow which leaves just about a hundred MP's to fill one hundred governmental posts. There's no choice at all, they've had no selection, no training. We have to job for them.


----------



## Putty7 (25 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Excellent choice stocks and so true, its a bit sad that we pay these people for the privilege of running this great country and they are never taken to task over their job performance, unfortunately most Aussies are to busy dealing with their own day to day problems to care much one way or another and can you imagine getting Australian tax payers together to put on a united front to actually do anything about it, never happen, well not in my life time anyway and im a cynical 36 years old, a good topic of conversation none the less, always good for a few laughs


----------



## greggy (25 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Uncle Barry said:


> Hi Greggy Comrade,
> What branch do you belong to, comrade?




Uncle Barry,

As I've said earlier, I'm a swinging voter.  Prior to voting for Rudd at the last election, I voted for Howard at the 2004 election. At the next state election I'll probably vote Liberal as the Vic ALP is looking tired after 10 years in power.  Clearly anyone who has read my previous posts from 2007 would have understood this.
I've never been a member of any political party nor would I ever want to join one.
As for the "Sorry" speech it was very symbolic and should have been done long ago. Costello has said that he favoured such a speech, but Howard was against it.  
As for Julia's comments, "Greggy, you're entitled to your view, of course", its good to see that she hasn't changed at all and welcomes different points of views.
To Rudd's critics, is there a decent alternative in place as Turnbull isn't getting the support he deserves from his party? Even Blind Freddy would say "No".


----------



## Mr J (25 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Rudd: Bland, boring, droning, empty, hollow.

Hit the nail on the head Julia, I don't know why people don't see it. I just can't believe people can't see him for the fake weasel that he is. There is nothing genuine about him, or his promises. This must be very frustrating for the third of Australia that sees it.



			
				greggy said:
			
		

> I feel he's been a reassuring figure in difficult times. He's leading a united party.




I think this is part of the problem. The public places to much emphasis on this rather than performance. Reassuring simply means he can talk.



> He got off on the right foot with Aboriginal reconciliation.




What has he done apart from saying sorry? Things don't seem to have changed at all, and the apology was almost certainly only made to score political points. Rudd does this often.



> He also seems to be wanting to do something about climate change whilst his predecessor seemed to be a climate change sceptic.




He wants to do something about a situation that is still unproven? The climate is always changing, but I haven't seen any proof that humans are the cause. There's nothing wrong with being sceptical about an issue that is not being discussed objectively.



> On the economic front the stimulus package has improved consumer confidence




Improved consumer confidence? He gave most people $1000 and told them to spend it. Most did not, but those that did couldn't help themselves anyway. What a waste. We've got to pay that back with interest.



> He's working with the business commmunity in order to assist us in getting through *these hard economic time*s.




I see you have been listening to Ruddy. How has he been working with the business community?



> If Turnbull was in power I'm sure he too would have put out a sizable stimulus package.




Sure, but it would have been less. Rudd is only interested in gaining popularity, so it makes sense that he would push everything further to achieve this.



> This country isn't going broke thats for sure. When good times resume we'll need to tighten our belts a little to reduce our debt levels.




Doesn't mean money should be wasted like it has been.



> Its easy to for people to criticise Mr Rudd but until the Liberals get their act together this country doesn't currently have any other viable option.




Perhaps I'm a little cynical, but I vote for who would do the least damage. A fractured party would certainly be less damaging than a united one.



> Please don't think I'm Turnbull bashing here (I'm a swinging voter). I like the fellow (please my posts on other threads




You shouldn't, I've heard from reliable sources that he's a complete a-hole, but not in the nasty, fake way that Rudd is.


----------



## trainspotter (25 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I need a BEX and a lie down


----------



## Buddy (25 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

And Barny reckons he's worth 1,000,000 smackeroos. 

Ha ha ha ................ ha ha ................ha ........... ha, er, ha


----------



## Uncle Barry (25 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Good evening,
Whats this ?
_And Barny reckons he's worth 1,000,000 smackeroos. _

Not this Uncle Barry ! 
BUT
lets be fair and reasonable here, Kev Rude is good, 
yep, 
but I really don't know what for.

Then if hes that good of fella, ok, maybe give him that 1,000,000 ROOS !
I've never see 1 million roos all together, seen a couple of hundred running then after a while, down by the fence haveing a sleep or something there were a few 
Kind regards,
UB
PS, what would Kev want with a million roos, beats me
but
hes a strange one that Kev Rude


----------



## matty2.0 (25 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

mr burns still poo-pooing rudd.


----------



## greggy (25 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Mr J said:


> Rudd: Bland, boring, droning, empty, hollow.
> 
> Hit the nail on the head Julia, I don't know why people don't see it. I just can't believe people can't see him for the fake weasel that he is. There is nothing genuine about him, or his promises. This must be very frustrating for the third of Australia that sees it.
> 
> ...




"A fractured party would certainly be less damaging than a united one" Mr J says. This is a very naive approach. Surely a party that can't govern itself can't govern the country.

"Perhaps I'm a little cynical" Mr J says, try a lot.

You invite people's opinions only to smash them down with a black and white view of the world.  At the last election people got sick and tired of an ageing and tired government.  In a democracy all opinions, rightly or wrongly, should be respected.   

"I think this is part of the problem. The public places to much emphasis on this rather than performance. Reassuring simply means he can talk." Mr J says. The public are no fools. They voted for Howard a number of times until offered a fresh alternative and are likely to re-elect them at the next election.  Disunity in opposition rarely brings electoral success.


----------



## Mr J (25 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



> "A fractured party would certainly be less damaging than a united one" Mr J says. This is a very naive approach. Surely a party that can't govern itself can't govern the country.




It was a tongue-in-cheek comment. Of course government has duties that must be carried out. Enacting CTS or sending out $1000 cheques is another matter, and to what I'm actually referring.



> "Perhaps I'm a little cynical" Mr J says, try a lot.




Yes, I can be very cynical. Governments are generally extremely inefficient, constantly make mistakes and come with many extra a-holes, so can you blame me?



> You invite people's opinions only to smash them down with a black and white view of the world.




I was blunt, but I didn't smash your view. My view certainly isn't black and white - it's black, white, and everything in between. However, I'm not naive enough to think that the government has the public's interest at heart.



> In a democracy all opinions, rightly or wrongly, should be respected.




While we may officially have a democratically-elected parliament, it's not really much of a democracy. I strongly disagree that all opinions should be respected. Perhaps all should be heard, under a democracy, but asking them to be respected is a little too much I think.



> The public are no fools.




I think many here will disagree with you. I believe the public are reasonably foolish. Individually they may not be that foolish, but I think when a mob forms, the lowest common denominator is the result.

I notice that our views balance each other well.


----------



## greggy (25 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

"I notice that our views balance each other well" Mr J says.
I'll agree on that point Mr J.  Politically I'm in the middle, what you might call a small "l" liberal. In the ALP I'd be on the right, in the Liberals on the moderate side ("wets").  
So if you're not a fan of Turnbull (strangely I am), who would you like as opposition leader?


----------



## Mr J (25 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

That was regarding his personality, although I can't be sure as I haven't met the guy.


----------



## greggy (25 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Mr J said:


> That was regarding his personality, although I can't be sure as I haven't met the guy.




A friend of mine who lost his house in the Marysville fire reckons Turnbull's a decent, compassionate bloke. He met him back in Feb.


----------



## Julia (25 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



greggy said:


> A friend of mine who lost his house in the Marysville fire reckons Turnbull's a decent, compassionate bloke. He met him back in Feb.



I don't know if Turnbull is either decent or compassionate.  But I'd bet my bottom dollar that he lacks the native cunning and capacity for machiavellian connivance that our Prime Minister has in spades.

He also shows a willingness to play less to the popular vote in his suggestion that - rather than cash handouts - he would have gone for more needed infrastructure plus tax cuts to keep the economy afloat.  That would have been to the country's longer term benefit, but offered him a lesser short term political advantage.

Mr Rudd, on the other hand, as we all know, opts for the populist approach.
Hence his standing in the polls.


----------



## GumbyLearner (25 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Found this Cartoon by Nicholson quite humourous

http://www.nicholsoncartoons.com.au/cartoon_6809.html


----------



## Calliope (26 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



greggy said:


> As I've said earlier, I'm a swinging voter.  Prior to voting for Rudd at the last election, I voted for Howard at the 2004 election.




Swinging voters at the next Federal election will boil down to whether you are a recipient of Rudd's largesse or whether you are paying for it.

Being a taxpayer I am angry at $42B of my money being wasted  on handouts and harebrained, ill thought out schemes, whose only purpose was to spend money quickly. As was pointed out recently it cost $1.5M for every job created or saved.

In a just society the Unholy Trinity (Rudd, Swan and Gillard) and their chief cheerleader, Ken Henry would be indicted for the misappropriation of public moneys.

They are however, strutting the world stage and being lauded for their expertise in wasting money.


----------



## Mr J (26 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



greggy said:


> A friend of mine who lost his house in the Marysville fire reckons Turnbull's a decent, compassionate bloke. He met him back in Feb.




He may have been in that situation, but I think most of us would be, regardless of how we usually act.


----------



## greggy (26 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> I don't know if Turnbull is either decent or compassionate.  But I'd bet my bottom dollar that he lacks the native cunning and capacity for machiavellian connivance that our Prime Minister has in spades.
> 
> He also shows a willingness to play less to the popular vote in his suggestion that - rather than cash handouts - he would have gone for more needed infrastructure plus tax cuts to keep the economy afloat.  That would have been to the country's longer term benefit, but offered him a lesser short term political advantage.
> 
> ...




Hi Julia,

Turnbull is comparatively very politically naive to say the least.  This was best demonstrated with his approach on the Grech Saga.   
There being a lack of an alternative has also helped him in the polls.  The infighting within Coalition ranks needs to stop.


----------



## trainspotter (26 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

If I remember correctly the same thing happened to Labor with Beazley/Crean/Latham/Beazley/Rudd circus. Thus is the nature of politics.


----------



## greggy (26 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> If I remember correctly the same thing happened to Labor with Beazley/Crean/Latham/Beazley/Rudd circus. Thus is the nature of politics.




Disunity in opposition is a death sentence. I never voted ALP federally whilst they were in such a mess. If they can't handle their own ranks they can't handle government.


----------



## MrBurns (26 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> If I remember correctly the same thing happened to Labor with Beazley/Crean/Latham/Beazley/Rudd circus. Thus is the nature of politics.




Hey Trainman, you shoud'nt put all those names in one post, it made me throw up.


----------



## greggy (26 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> Hey Trainman, you shoud'nt put all those names in one post, it made me throw up.




Latham was the worst of the lot.  His book with his backstabing confirmed what he's really like.  His party took care of him with a plum seat. When he lost the election (I voted for Howard back then), he turned on everyone.
He might have had some good ideas but he certainly was too volatile a character for me to vote for.


----------



## trainspotter (26 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> Hey Trainman, you shoud'nt put all those names in one post, it made me throw up.




HAh aha ha ahah h ahh ehh eh eh e ... Mark Latham was the pick of the bunch for mine "A conga line of suckholes" was a beauty and reflected the true wordsmith coming out. Also the title to a book he wrote.

When Beazley was the Minister of Defence he was walking through an Army barracks having a "live firing" test. An explosion occured where he was walking with some Major General chappy and the BOMBER BEAZLEY shat his pants while the MG casually strolled on. Channel 9 news crew caught the lot on camera.... LMFAO !!


----------



## MrBurns (26 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> "A conga line of suckholes"




Stop it I'll have a stroke laughing so much. but what a perfect description of that lot


----------



## Gamblor (26 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Swinging voters at the next Federal election will boil down to whether you are a recipient of Rudd's largesse or whether you are paying for it.
> 
> Being a taxpayer I am angry at $42B of my money being wasted  on handouts and harebrained, ill thought out schemes, whose only purpose was to spend money quickly. As was pointed out recently it cost $1.5M for every job created or saved.
> 
> ...





1. Everyone in the country will pay for it - every single person is a taxpayer, it's impossible not to pay some form of tax.

2. Unless you have access to a parallel universe where no government stimulus took place, it's impossible to work out how much every job, saved or created cost.......


----------



## kam75 (26 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

The Milkybar Prick has already cost me enough money.


----------



## matty2.0 (26 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

we got a lot of hard rights in ere ...


----------



## Julia (26 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



matty2.0 said:


> we got a lot of hard rights in ere ...




I don't really think many of us are 'hard right' at all.

Just not the right material to constitute the executive of the Rudd Fan Club.


----------



## MrBurns (26 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



matty2.0 said:


> we got a lot of hard rights in ere ...




I'll vote for anyone I respect, Rudd doesnt cut it.


----------



## Macquack (27 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> I'll vote for anyone I respect, Rudd doesnt cut it.




I was looking to quote your post inciting violence against the PM, but it must have been deleted!

Burns, why dont you make a name for yourself and lay one on the Ruddster. 

Headline
"*Serial Rudd hater takes law into his own hands*"

Going by your posts in the "Sentencing in Australia is a disgrace" Thread, the judge would be lenient and give you minimal punishment, probably a few hours community service.

BTW, I will put my money on Rudd in the "slap-a-thon'.


----------



## MrBurns (27 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Macquack said:


> Burns, why dont you make a name for youself and lay one on the Ruddster.




The line to lay one on Rudd is too long I'm afraid. 
Once you get your share of the bill for his spending excesses you'll be in that line yourself Quacka.


----------



## greggy (27 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



matty2.0 said:


> we got a lot of hard rights in ere ...




Matty, I would agree that most of the people contributing to this thread are very conservative to say the least.  I think many even are to the right of Turnbull on the political spectrum. 
Back in 2007 when contributing to such threads there was less of a right-wing bent. Politically I've always been in the political centre, a moderate.
Now I'm not staying that this shift to the right is necessarily good or bad.  My take on this is each to their own. We live in a democracy and I'm extremely proud to be part of it.  
Look at the crackpots running Zimbabwe (Mugabe's still very much in control) and North Korea and other rogue nations. Australia still has its problems, but its still the lucky country. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.


----------



## noco (27 September 2009)

*Vote One - Rudd for U.N. Secretary General*

Kevin Rudd has come away from the G20 meeting with an EGO as high as Mt. Everest claiming credit for a permanent seat on the decision making table of world leaders.

On ABC "INSIGHT" this morning,  it was revealed Peter Costello  did the original spade work  to be recognised among world leaders, so why has Rudd taken the full credit for the work of  someone else?

In his most recent statement, Rudd has a simple message: "I HAVE THE ANSWERS TO ALL YOUR PROBLEMS AND YOU'D BE STUPID NOT TO TAKE NOTICE", so why shoudn't he have the top job in the world to save mankind.

The sooner he becomes UN Secretary General, the better Australia will be without him!!!!!


----------



## Chris45 (27 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



matty2.0 said:


> we got a lot of hard rights in ere ...



I get the distinct impression that some people here have trouble walking in a straight line.


----------



## Kash Kosmo (27 September 2009)

*Re: Vote One - Rudd for U.N. Secretary General*



noco said:


> Kevin Rudd has come away from the G20 meeting with an EGO as high as Mt. Everest claiming credit for a permanent seat on the decision making table of world leaders.
> 
> On ABC "INSIGHT" this morning,  it was revealed Peter Costello  did the original spade work  to be recognised among world leaders, so why has Rudd taken the full credit for the work of  someone else?




In Greek Ego means 
Me,myself & I 
Yes all three of them 

Rudd wont say thank you to the Liberals for the surplus why do you think he will acknowledge P. Costello 

All in the same or similar style of the British Labour think tank model 
Its taken time but its starting to fall apart 

KK


----------



## Julia (27 September 2009)

*Re: Vote One - Rudd for U.N. Secretary General*

This has always been his overriding ambition, i.e. to have a position at the UN when he's no longer PM of Australia.

To give him credit where it's due, though, he has obviously been successful at the G20.  (Gee whiz, it was hard to say that!)


----------



## noco (28 September 2009)

*Re: Vote One - Rudd for U.N. Secretary General*



Julia said:


> This has always been his overriding ambition, i.e. to have a position at the UN when he's no longer PM of Australia.
> 
> To give him credit where it's due, though, he has obviously been successful at the G20.  (Gee whiz, it was hard to say that!)




Yes Julia you are right, but he did not initiate the idea of the G20. There is no doubt he could even sell refrigerators to Eskimos. His rhectoric always sounds very convincing and has the nack of turning bad publicity in his favour.

I wish I had a crystal ball!!!!!!!


----------



## Mr J (28 September 2009)

*Re: Vote One - Rudd for U.N. Secretary General*



> There is no doubt he could even sell refrigerators to Eskimos




I find him as transparent as a window, but it's hard to disagree that he can keep a hold of public opinion.


----------



## Calliope (28 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

How could you possibly not have confidence in this man?


----------



## greggy (28 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> How could you possibly not have confidence in this man?




Great cartoon Calliope.  Pity there was none of his usual swearing in it.


----------



## matty2.0 (28 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Gathering from today's comments, Glenn Stevens has confidence in him too.


----------



## Julia (28 September 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



matty2.0 said:


> Gathering from today's comments, Glenn Stevens has confidence in him too.



Given that Mr Stevens almost certainly had considerable input, along with Mr Henry, into crafting the stimulus plan, you'd expect nothing else.


----------



## noco (30 September 2009)

*Re: Vote One - Rudd for U.N. Secretary General*

Kevin Rudd in his determination to become UN Secretary General is on an all out crusade to impress world leaders.

The following extract from www.theaustralian.com.au Friday September 25 2009 confirms his intention to lead the world.

'It's a fundamental miscalculation to think Rudd does not really want to lead the way on globing warming; this is exactly what he wants'.

'His visit to New York last week has amply demonstrated while he's only too happy to use every bit of political pressure to achieve his aim and to frighten Turnbull over the prospects of a double dissolution, Rudd wants to take a legislated scheme to Copenhagen'.

'This is the real conflict at the heart of the debate over emissions trading in Australia: it's not about detail- even the government knows it must amend the scheme and must compromise with the Liberals to get its bill through the senate- it's about whether  we lead the world'.

'Rudd went on to say , he wants to take a legislated scheme to Copenhagen because he wants to lead the world on climate change and wants to serve his full term as Prime Minuster without calling an unpopular and unnecessary election'.

INMO it's just another rung in the ladder to the top job. He is very ambitious indeed and will go to no ends to impress world leaders. Whether he could ever convince his "CHINESE FRIENDS" IS ANOTHER MATTER!!!!!


----------



## Buddy (30 September 2009)

*Re: Vote One - Rudd for U.N. Secretary General*



Julia said:


> This has always been his overriding ambition, i.e. to have a position at the UN when he's no longer PM of Australia.
> 
> To give him credit where it's due, though, he has obviously been successful at the G20.  (Gee whiz, it was hard to say that!)




I'm not so sure of his so called success at the G20. A while back, Bob Zoellick, World Bank president, expressed the view that the G20 forum was too unwieldy to deal with critical global issues. He suggested that the number should be restricted to no more than the 15 leading economies (I think his preference was 10-12). At the time that Australia ranked 16th. 

The game aint over yet.

But I would certainly hope that krudd takes up the UN. Or is it the other way around? Then the rest of the world can get their share of his boorish language.


----------



## Julia (30 September 2009)

*Re: Vote One - Rudd for U.N. Secretary General*

I actually think he'd be a pretty good Secretary-General.  It's the sort of job that would suit his micro-management, ultra organising style.

Can't begin to think of what it would do to his already inflated ego, however.
Whacko, to be 'boss of the world' effectively, even if such a position is contained in an impotent organisation.  The symbolism would be heaven to him.


----------



## stocksontheblock (1 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



greggy said:


> Matty, I would agree that most of the people contributing to this thread are very conservative to say the least.  I think many even are to the right of Turnbull on the political spectrum.
> Back in 2007 when contributing to such threads there was less of a right-wing bent. Politically I've always been in the political centre, a moderate.
> Now I'm not staying that this shift to the right is necessarily good or bad.  My take on this is each to their own. We live in a democracy and I'm extremely proud to be part of it.
> Look at the crackpots running Zimbabwe (Mugabe's still very much in control) and North Korea and other rogue nations. Australia still has its problems, but its still the lucky country. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.




Thanks for the laugh  I love the idea that to dislike Dudd and Co. must make you a right wing lunatic conservative.

As for being to the right of Mr Turntable – well I don’t think that really says much. Half the ALP is the right of him.


----------



## Mr J (1 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



greggy said:


> I think many even are to the right of Turnbull on the political spectrum.




The political spectrum is a little more complicated than a line with markings of left, right and centre.


----------



## Calliope (1 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



stocksontheblock said:


> As for being to the right of Mr Turntable – well I don’t think that really says much. Half the ALP is the right of him.




Yes, and Mr Turnbull's left wing tendencies are making it very difficult to unite the Coalition on their stance on the ETS. He has now thrown down the gauntlet to those who oppose him.


----------



## greggy (1 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Yes, and Mr Turnbull's left wing tendencies are making it very difficult to unite the Coalition on their stance on the ETS. He has now thrown down the gauntlet to those who oppose him.




Turnbull, left wing? Barely, I see him as being from the moderate side of politics, a centrist if you like. Thanks for the laugh. 
Its his party thats not giving him a chance. Disunity is death in politics.


----------



## noco (1 October 2009)

*Re: Vote One - Rudd for U.N. Secretary General*



Julia said:


> I actually think he'd be a pretty good Secretary-General.  It's the sort of job that would suit his micro-management, ultra organising style.
> 
> Can't begin to think of what it would do to his already inflated ego, however.
> Whacko, to be 'boss of the world' effectively, even if such a position is contained in an impotent organisation.  The symbolism would be heaven to him.




I wonder if the UN Secretary General has a team of spin doctors. If he does not have that kind of support any more, he might just be up the proverbial creek without a paddle.

Will he rule the world or will the world rule him?  The UN members  may very well wake up to his empty rhetoric  in the early stages and  also he most likely will not have the biased media support as he has in Australia.

The sooner he gets the job the better we will all be at home.


----------



## noirua (1 October 2009)

*Re: Vote One - Rudd for U.N. Secretary General*



Julia said:


> This has always been his overriding ambition, i.e. to have a position at the UN when he's no longer PM of Australia.
> 
> To give him credit where it's due, though, he has obviously been successful at the G20.  (Gee whiz, it was hard to say that!)





Kevin Rudd will stay Prime Minister of Australia for a very long time.  Looks a certainty to end up being the longest serving P.M. One day he'll be President of Australia.


----------



## Riddick (1 October 2009)

*Re: Vote One - Rudd for U.N. Secretary General*



noirua said:


> Kevin Rudd will stay Prime Minister of Australia for a very long time.  Looks a certainty to end up being the longest serving P.M. One day he'll be President of Australia.




absolutely disagree. as usual with the labor party they will self destruct.

* the population will eventually get sick of his platitudes
* his party will stab him in the back

i mean seriously, do we hinestly want a dude like this running our country. we all saw what he did in qld.

hanging for the day the mighty libs get back in.


----------



## Julia (1 October 2009)

*Re: Vote One - Rudd for U.N. Secretary General*



Riddick said:


> absolutely disagree. as usual with the labor party they will self destruct.
> 
> * the population will eventually get sick of his platitudes
> * his party will stab him in the back



I heard a political commentator recently (sorry, forget who it was) say that the party in general contains a significant anti-Rudd factor, largely based on his determination not to be consultative with the overall Labor party, but to be intent on treading his own path to personal self-aggrandisement.

The Unions in particular, said this person, are very disenchanted indeed.

Labor, however, has a long way to go before it matches - at least in any obvious form - the utter disarray that is the Coalition at present.

And now Mr Turnbull has thrown out the challenge to his party room that if they don't support his stand on the ETS, then whacko, he no longer wants to be leader.  Wanna bet that's just what will happen, Mr Turnbull?
The Nationals appear quite resolute in their decision not to vote for the ETS, regardless of what amendments are made.

Interesting time ahead and I doubt Mr Turnbull's personal negotiating skills are up to the task.


----------



## Julia (1 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Yes, and Mr Turnbull's left wing tendencies are making it very difficult to unite the Coalition on their stance on the ETS. He has now thrown down the gauntlet to those who oppose him.




Calliope, he's in a very difficult position, isn't he.  I don't know whether he genuinely supports the idea of an ETS (suspect he does in some form), but even if he didn't, he cannot ignore the political reality that if the Coalition vote against the legislation in November, Rudd will almost certainly move to a double dissolution election, which of course Labor will win.

As we've observed before, this will allow the government to bring in the most vicious of Budgets to restore the surplus - all sorts of taxes and charges, plus cutting of services - but because it will be such a short time into a whole new term, they can do so with impunity, knowing the electorate will have forgotten about it by the time the next election comes around.

The government must be indeed celebrating its good fortune.


----------



## noirua (2 October 2009)

*Re: Vote One - Rudd for U.N. Secretary General*



Julia said:


> I heard a political commentator recently (sorry, forget who it was) say that the party in general contains a significant anti-Rudd factor, largely based on his determination not to be consultative with the overall Labor party, but to be intent on treading his own path to personal self-aggrandisement.




Sounds very much like PM Tony Blair of the UK Labour Party. Also sounds somewhat like PM Mrs Thatcher of the UK Conservative party; all he needs is her handbag to bash 'em with.


----------



## Calliope (13 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,26203566-1702,00.html



> Treasurer Wayne Swan, however, believes Australians can't get away from the importance of the issue.
> 
> "Australia is the hottest, driest continent on Earth," he said.
> 
> ...




Anything we do (and nuclear power has been ruled out) won't make one iota of difference to the climate. The ETS is just another of Rudd's grand symbolic gestures.


----------



## trainspotter (13 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Where did all the posts go from the 1st of October (Julia) then to Calliope today?? What's going on?? Or have the critics gone quiet just like Mr Rudd & Co??


----------



## trainspotter (13 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

It appears that the honeymoon is far from over with Kruddy 747 at the helm. The populace love him and the media glorify his every move. We, the proletariat will soon be basking in the afterglow of horrendous debt driven by vote catching stimulus packages.


----------



## moXJO (13 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> Where did all the posts go from the 1st of October (Julia) then to Calliope today?? What's going on?? Or have the critics gone quiet just like Mr Rudd & Co??




The liberals need to get there $hit sorted. And the public need to reconsider if they should be lapping up what Rudd is squeezing out. Until then Rudd gets to run the country like the dictator he wants to be. Libs will probably have a free shot with the influx of boat people. Am also hearing the unions grumble a bit as well. Labor just seem to be happy to pass off out right lies as the truth in the media now. Sooner or later it will culminate into the perfect storm. 

I think there is that ominous feeling of living in economic limbo at the moment. My priorities and attention has changed drastically in the last few months.


----------



## noco (14 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Well, judging by the latest news on the boat people sager, Rudd is running for cover, once again blaming everyone but himself.

He knows, but won't admit, throwing away the previous Governments polices  on temporary protection visas and the Pacific solution, is now causing severe HEART BURN.

He has messed up big time.

Does he inspire me, NO, NO, NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Mc Gusto (14 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Do we have a thread 'Does Turnbull Inspire Confidence'? Sorry Rudd haters but he is certainly the lesser of two evils...or dimwits if you like


----------



## Calliope (14 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Mc Gusto said:


> Do we have a thread 'Does Turnbull Inspire Confidence'? Sorry Rudd haters but he is certainly the lesser of two evils...or dimwits if you like




I'm sure that if Turnbull was Prime Minister there would be such a thread.


----------



## trainspotter (14 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

There is a thread called "Can Malcolm Turnbull rise from the ashes?" where we have roasted, chastened, denigrated, put a fork in him, admonished, tongue - lashed, fulminated against, castigated and generally run him into the ground for his lack of political nouse.  SO I guess this evens it up a bit ? No?


----------



## Out Too Soon (14 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Well I read the first page then realised how long this thread has been going.
   I'd just like to make a few points

1: I find it hilarious when conservatives get upset that a govt won't control prices. : If Labour weren't so boring right-wing these days maybe it could be different. ( Viva Senor Morales ) :

2: Ruddy "Cruddy" is uninspiring, boring & exactly what Australia deserves, whenever (if ever) someone with passion and/or balls gets put forward he/she gets crucified. 

3: Malcolm Turnbull has his good points ( he is a Republican ) but his party still consists of of the same Howard xenophobic nasties that felt they had to preach fear & hate to win votes to hold onto power. The same party that sat on their asses thru the boom times, collected huge taxes & did nothing. i.e Costello highest taxing worst treasurer Australia ever had : ( & they're all boring)

4: The Greens may be flawed with their anti any development dogma but they will continue to get my vote as an Australian with little choice because all they can hope for is the balance of power & the Bobs Greens are the only people I trust with said balance.   ( Unfortunately Bob is a little boring too)


----------



## noco (14 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Mc Gusto said:


> Do we have a thread 'Does Turnbull Inspire Confidence'? Sorry Rudd haters but he is certainly the lesser of two evils...or dimwits if you like




Well, that's debatable I guess!!! Rudd has shown his true colours in 2 years being in Government.

Turnbull is in opposition and nobody knows how he would perform if in Government. So how can you rate Rudd as the lesser of two evils. Rudd is a psycho who plays on people's minds. Do you get my drift?


----------



## noco (15 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Before the 2007 election Rudd promised to fix the dilapidated hospital system. The waiting delays would stop. The states would have to get their act together by mid 2009 or he would take over the whole system nation wide.

He said,"no more of the blame game, the responsibility would be on his shoulders and the buck stops with him".

Whah! on todays news he has delayed his take over treat for another year. He has also gone back to blaming the previous Howard Government.

Correct me if I am wrong, but it was always my belief, hospitals and health were the sponsibility of State Governments.

What a deceitful character.

Does Rudd inspire me NO,NO,NO!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## trainspotter (17 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

MORE than half of Kevin Rudd's staff have fled the Prime Minister's office since the election less than two years ago. 

Despite promising to rid Australia of workplace bullies, the PM - dubbed Kevin 24/7 - has emerged as one of the country's most demanding employers, with insiders describing him as "manic". 

With the next election less than one year away, the PM has lost most of his senior policy advisers, leaving an office that insiders say is almost unrecognisable, the Herald Sun reports.

"He's demanding and a bit all over the place," says one former staffer of the PM, who recently tore into Labor's factional chiefs with an expletive-laden rant. 

Another was more blunt: "He gives little in the way of constructive feedback. And he just doesn't listen to anybody." 

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,26221178-421,00.html

Finally the media is awakening !


----------



## noco (17 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> MORE than half of Kevin Rudd's staff have fled the Prime Minister's office since the election less than two years ago.
> 
> Despite promising to rid Australia of workplace bullies, the PM - dubbed Kevin 24/7 - has emerged as one of the country's most demanding employers, with insiders describing him as "manic".
> 
> ...




From the Oxford dictionary, MANIC MEANS AFFECTED WITH MANIA. MANIC-DEPRESSIVE RELATING TO MENTAL DISORDER WITH ALTERNATING PERIODS OF ELATION AND DEPRESSION,PERSON HAVING SUCH DISORDER.

Is it possible our Prime Minister may be suffering from Bi-polar?

Has anybody lived with a person with this medical problem?


----------



## moXJO (17 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noco said:


> Is it possible our Prime Minister may be suffering from Bi-polar?
> 
> Has anybody lived with a person with this medical problem?




I posted the same thing a few months back. High functioning BPD or Bi-polar imo: God help us all if he is. I had a girlfriend a while back that was diagnosed BPD. My own little slice of hell until I legged it outa there.


----------



## Julia (17 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I'm no fan of Mr Rudd, but for people on an internet forum to be attempting to label him bipolar is pretty silly.

I'd guess the original comment from his office that he was 'manic' simply would have referred to his capacity to work at full power over very long hours (and expect those around him to do likewise).
In other words, that the term would have been used in a colloquial sense, not as a psychiatric diagnosis.

We frequently hear the same misuse of 'schizophrenic'.

Imo clinical terms should be applied only by those qualified to do so.


----------



## noco (18 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



moXJO said:


> I posted the same thing a few months back. High functioning BPD or Bi-polar imo: God help us all if he is. I had a girlfriend a while back that was diagnosed BPD. My own little slice of hell until I legged it outa there.




I was married to one for 5 years, her mood swings were unbearable; loving to the fullist one minute to a click of the fingers into a rage of terror and abuse the next. That was 35 years ago when little was known about the complaint.
The nearest item she could lay her hand on would often be thrown. You cannot reason with this type of person; they will not listen while their brain is so twisted. She would then disappear for 4 or 5 hours and return to normal untill the next time. Maybe the next hour or the next day or the next week; their is no set pattern.  Certain happenings will trigger off a spasm of the brain to set the wheels in motion again. It just becomes unbearable to live with this type of person. Fortunately for these people today, there is now suitable medication to control their behaviour. I doubt whether there ever be a cure. It is a genetic problem which can raise it's ugly head in the third or fourth generation. Very rarely in the imediate off springs.

I was very reluctant to quote my personal experience on ASF, but it sometimes helps to get it off one's chest and to make others aware of the action of those type of people. This poor sole never married again.

NB. My ex wife is a different person today under medication and my present wife of 27 years and I are  now friends with her in a modest way.


----------



## moXJO (18 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> I'm no fan of Mr Rudd, but for people on an internet forum to be attempting to label him bipolar is pretty silly.
> 
> I'd guess the original comment from his office that he was 'manic' simply would have referred to his capacity to work at full power over very long hours (and expect those around him to do likewise).
> In other words, that the term would have been used in a colloquial sense, not as a psychiatric diagnosis.
> ...




I don't think he will be running for the medicine cabinet from my forum diagnosis. But I would happily take a fee for unprofessional advice. 

But more importantly Julia, How did my comment make you feel?
(Bill is in the mail)


----------



## noco (18 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Well, poor Kevie has had a bad week particularly with his botched boat people policy proving to be a failure and more knockers to the ETS which a recent poll showed 70% believe Rudd should wait untill after Copenhagen.

So with things are going "belly up" he has reached for the diversion think tank again where he states, and I quote, " I used to smack my kids so I guess that puts me in the bad boy category" and it received head line news. He is a real wizard at diverting people's mind away from the real problems.


----------



## moXJO (18 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noco said:


> So with things are going "belly up" he has reached for the diversion think tank again where he states, and I quote, " I used to smack my kids so I guess that puts me in the bad boy category" and it received head line news. He is a real wizard at diverting people's mind away from the real problems.




Great way to begin another crappy tax on everything. Thought turnbull might have made more of a stand though. Not crumbling once again under the Rudd spin. They are touting the amendments as some kind of turnbull victory. Fact is we will still be paying more regardless


----------



## Soft Dough (18 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



moXJO said:


> Great way to begin another crappy tax on everything. Thought turnbull might have made more of a stand though. Not crumbling once again under the Rudd spin. They are touting the amendments as some kind of turnbull victory. Fact is we will still be paying more regardless




I agree, but the stand should have been final.

Turnbull bowing to the pressure does indeed make him come across as inferior.

I mean liberals are going to lose the next election anyway, so why not stand up against something which will be eventually passed. When people realise how pointless the exercise is, and how it affects our economy and results in no benefit, they will turn on Kevin Rudd.

This is the only way liberals can benefit from ETS. In fact supporting it may turn some liberal voters away from them.


----------



## noco (19 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Soft Dough said:


> I agree, but the stand should have been final.
> 
> Turnbull bowing to the pressure does indeed make him come across as inferior.
> 
> ...




I believe Turnbull want's to avoid a double dissolution if it is at all possible. He would prefer Rudd to go the full distance to a November election after a horror budget.

It is also my belief Rudd would like to water down his crazy ETS and be able to take anything to Copenhagen rather than go empty handed. Rudd is also starting to realize what his scheme will do to industry, jobs and house hold costs. He might even agree to ammendments put out up by the Coalition. But of course the other senario is if Labor accepts the ammendments from the Coalition and he gets a voter back lash, he can say, the Coalition agreed to it, don't blame me. 

If that senario eventuates, things could be very different come November2009. A lot can happen between now and November.


----------



## moXJO (19 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Soft Dough said:


> I agree, but the stand should have been final.
> 
> Turnbull bowing to the pressure does indeed make him come across as inferior.
> 
> ...




Yes would have liked to have seen Turnbull turn it down, despite the fact he may have faced a DD. Even to delay it till after Copenhagen would have been better. 



noco said:


> It is also my belief Rudd would like to water down his crazy ETS and be able to take anything to Copenhagen rather than go empty handed. Rudd is also starting to realize what his scheme will do to industry, jobs and house hold costs. He might even agree to ammendments put out up by the Coalition. But of course the other senario is if Labor accepts the ammendments from the Coalition and he gets a voter back lash, he can say, the Coalition agreed to it, don't blame me.
> 
> If that senario eventuates, things could be very different come November2009. A lot can happen between now and November.




It’s funny how Turnbull made a song and dance about being able to get his amendments through. It was also pretty prominent in the media. All the while Labor stayed silent, and enforced that Turnbull just helped pass it. No doubt it will be used as ammunition later on.


----------



## trainspotter (19 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Economists and naysayers have suggested the tax will add on about $500 per annum for food, $200 for electricity and about $100 for gas supplies to the average family household. I hope all the people who got the $900 are now prepared to hand it back with a Carbon Tax. He he ! In the scheme of things Australia does not really produce that much emissions compared to say China or India ...... where is their Carbon Tax? Ohhhhhhhh that's right ...... they don't have one? So why are we so full of it that we must have one even though we are not polluting as much as these countries?? We as a nation are primary producers that export our minerals to these countries and then it is they who dump the emissions into the stratosphere. Very basic outline I admit but do you get my point?


----------



## Julia (19 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Trainspotter, I might be quite wrong, but I suspect our Prime Minister wants what he perceives to be the glory of announcing to the Copenhagen meeting that Australia is leading the way by having an ETS legislated.

All part of his egocentric drive towards international recognition, and/or that position at the UN.

He is more concerned about his own political fortunes than whether an ETS is either necessary or helpful to Australia and Australians.


----------



## noco (19 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> Trainspotter, I might be quite wrong, but I suspect our Prime Minister wants what he perceives to be the glory of announcing to the Copenhagen meeting that Australia is leading the way by having an ETS legislated.
> 
> All part of his egocentric drive towards international recognition, and/or that position at the UN.
> 
> He is more concerned about his own political fortunes than whether an ETS is either necessary or helpful to Australia and Australians.




Yes Julia you are spot on, this man is full of himself and to hell with everybody else. On another note, I must apologise to Kevin Rudd for the terse remarks i made abit him as I thought he would be in Indonesia at the commencement of parliament today. He must have snuck in the back door last night.


----------



## Calliope (19 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Wayne Swan is always banging on about the devious banks and their charges and rate increases but there is never a peep out of him about electricity charges, which have sky rocketed this year. He is fully aware that Rudd's ETS will lift them to new heights.


----------



## trainspotter (19 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> Trainspotter, I might be quite wrong, but I suspect our Prime Minister wants what he perceives to be the glory of announcing to the Copenhagen meeting that Australia is leading the way by having an ETS legislated.
> 
> All part of his egocentric drive towards international recognition, and/or that position at the UN.
> 
> He is more concerned about his own political fortunes than whether an ETS is either necessary or helpful to Australia and Australians.




Yeppers Julia ....... You have hit the bullseye ! There are many journalistic hacks who have also pointed out this fact but alas ... to no avail !

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26117420-7583,00.html


----------



## trainspotter (19 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

But wait there is more ! The UN Security Council election for the ten nonpermanent seats is not due until October 2012 but Rudd is taking no chances. *All of Australia's 89 diplomatic missions are involved in the UN lobbying effort. *

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25149853-401,00.html

Whoopsies people ..... we are being taken for a ride !


----------



## rhen (19 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

A platoon of soldiers was marching north of Fallujah when they came upon an Iraqi terrorist, badly injured and unconscious. 

On the opposite side of the road was an Australian soldier in a similar but less serious state. 

The soldier was conscious and alert and as first aid was given to both men, the Platoon Leader asked the injured Australian what had happened. 

The soldier reported,  "I was heavily armed and moving north along the highway here, and coming south was a heavily armed insurgent.  We saw each other and both took cover in the ditches along the road.  I yelled to him that Saddam Hussein was a miserable, lowlife scum bag who got what he deserved. 

He yelled back that Kevin Rudd is a bureaucratic, Good-for-nothing, left wing labour ******** who knows bugger all about running the country. 

So I said that Osama Bin Ladin dresses and acts like a frigid, mean-spirited lesbian! 

He retaliated by yelling, 'Yes? Well, so does Julia Gillard !' 

And, there we were, in the middle of the road, laughing, when a bloody truck hit us."


----------



## MrBurns (21 October 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

From Crikey - 



> Kevin Rudd: "We see this lowest form of human life at work in what we saw on the high seas yesterday. That's why this government maintains its hardline, tough, targeted approach to maintaining border protection for Australia. And that's why we have dedicated more resources to combat people smuggling than any other government in Australian history." Tosser.
> 
> When it comes to talking crap, Kevin is in a field of his own.


----------



## Kash Kosmo (1 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Has anyone mentioned that he is a Media Tart 

KK


----------



## Julia (1 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

There was an interesting interview this evening on ABC Radio's James O'Loghlin's programme where he interviewed recently retired veteran journalist Alan Ramsay.  Mr Ramsay has been writing political commentary for, I think, 56 years from Canberra.

He described Mr Rudd as simply a 'career politician' without passion for anything.


----------



## Wysiwyg (1 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I have a "Gut Feeling" about it 

Is that feeling a chubby one, a six pack or somewhere in between? :walker:


----------



## Kash Kosmo (2 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Wysiwyg said:


> I have a "Gut Feeling" about it
> 
> Is that feeling a chubby one, a six pack or somewhere in between? :walker:




All 3 
In my 20s it was a six pack
In my 30s it was almost chubby 
Now in my 50s its somewhere in between  

KK


----------



## nunthewiser (3 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Kevin Rudd is the peoples champion! 

He tipped " Shocking " in todays Melbourne Cup.........If the punters followed our fearless leader today they would have made a motza! 

3 cheers for big Kev .


----------



## Red99 (4 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Rudd was a dweeb before the election.
Rudd is still a dweeb.


Cant stand the guy.


----------



## MrBurns (4 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

At his meeting with Queen Elizabeth recently, Kevin Rudd turned to the Queen and said: 

As I'm the Prime Minister, I'm thinking of changing how my great country is referred to, and I'm thinking that it should be a Kingdom." 

The Queen replied, "I'm sorry Mr. Rudd, but to be a Kingdom, you have to have a King in charge - and you're not a King." 

Kevin Rudd thought a while and then said: "How about a Principality then?" 

To which the Queen replied, "Again, to be a Principality you have to be a Prince - and you're not a Prince, Mr. Rudd." 

Rudd thought long and hard and came up with "How about an Empire then?" 

The Queen, getting a little annoyed by now, replied : "Sorry again, Mr.Rudd, but to be an Empire you must have an Emperor in charge - and you are not an Emperor." 

Before Rudd could utter another word, The Queen said: "I think you're doing quite nicely as a Country."


----------



## Gamblor (4 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

The only thing i'm confident Kev is going to do is push up housing prices even further. I felt like throwing something at the TV when i heard him talking up a big Australia.

We're big enough and he should wake up to the fact that it's becoming very hard for the average punter to buy a home. The first home buyers grant for existing homes proved he doesn't have a clue.

I can see housing doing damage to small business already - people just don't have the spare cash for much anymore and it's starting to really worry me what this might do to the economy in the long run.


----------



## Buddy (4 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



MrBurns said:


> At his meeting with Queen Elizabeth recently, Kevin Rudd turned to the Queen and said:
> 
> As I'm the Prime Minister, I'm thinking of changing how my great country is referred to, and I'm thinking that it should be a Kingdom."
> 
> ...




So Burnsie, are you suggesting that H.M. thinks krudd is a Count? Or is it something else?


----------



## MrBurns (4 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Buddy said:


> So Burnsie, are you suggesting that H.M. thinks krudd is a Count? Or is it something else?




I guess it's all in the pronunciation


----------



## trainspotter (5 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

*KEVIN Rudd has denied a poor opinion poll for Labor this week is the reason for his current media blitz. *
The Prime Minister appeared on Melbourne, Sydney, Adelaide and national radio in the space of a few hours this morning, but insisted his availability had nothing to do with a poll out on Tuesday showing federal Labor losing voter support.

The ALP's primary vote at 41 per cent - down seven percentage points on the previous poll two weeks earlier - is on equal footing with the Coalition.

On a two-party preferred basis, Labor leads the Coalition 52-48, a gap smaller than its election-winning performance in 2007. 

Bring on the next round of good news.


----------



## pilots (5 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Poor Rudd, the boat people is killing him in the polls. What happened Rudd??? did your trusted advisers give you a bum steer????. The ONLY way to win back your true believers now, is to do to the boat people, what little Johny did.


----------



## Julia (5 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> *KEVIN Rudd has denied a poor opinion poll for Labor this week is the reason for his current media blitz. *
> The Prime Minister appeared on Melbourne, Sydney, Adelaide and national radio in the space of a few hours this morning, but insisted his availability had nothing to do with a poll out on Tuesday showing federal Labor losing voter support.



I heard his interview with Fran Kelly on Radio National's Breakfast programme this morning.  He is getting worse than ever.  He didn't answer any of her questions, just parroted off the usual repetitive phrases, starting with, of course, "Can I just say.....".   The other phrases repeated multiple times were:

"we are working through this with Indonesia calmly and methodically"

"our policy is tough but humane"

I wonder if he ever listens to his own interviews to get some idea of how robotic and tedious he sounds.


----------



## noco (5 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

How I would like to see Alan Jones interview this con-man rouge of a Prime Minister of ours. I'll bet you my  bottom dollar he (Rudd) would not have the GUTZ to face up to him. Even the ABC is very conspicuous by their absence  in dicussing the Copenhagen fiasco.

Why has he kept the details of this draft to Copenhagen so secret; even Malcolm Turnbull confesses he has no idea of the details and the dangers facing Australia. 

It is time for Turnbull to show some leadership and nail this weasal to the wall. Do a 180 degree about turn on the ETS and gain some leverage in the polls.

How can anyone  be inspired with  confidence in this Prime Minister of ours.


----------



## GumbyLearner (5 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

He's a total lightweight compared to Keating.


----------



## MrBurns (5 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



GumbyLearner said:


> He's a total lightweight compared to Keating.




I didnt like Keating but this tosser makes Keating look like a hero, seriously.


----------



## Calliope (5 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> I wonder if he ever listens to his own interviews to get some idea of how robotic and tedious he sounds.




Wives usually tell their husbands when they become embarrassing.  Apparently Therese won't do this. It's hard to believe that she doesn't realize how ridiculous he sounds.


----------



## Julia (5 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I don't know whether he said this elsewhere, but in the Breakfast ABC interview this morning he clearly stated that the 78 asylum seekers on the Oceanic Viking "were being processed by the UNHCR".

I was rather surprised to hear this, as there have been no news reports of any UNHCR staff boarding the boat.

Then, lo, on this evening's programme, the UNHCR have denied that they are doing any such thing.  Said they would be happy to do this if requested, but no, they have not been asked.

So Mr Rudd, best to keep the spin to the facts, perhaps.


----------



## GumbyLearner (5 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Wives usually tell their husbands when they become embarrassing.  Apparently Therese won't do this. It's hard to believe that she doesn't realize how ridiculous he sounds.




Well theoretically, it's all very good to spend time focusing on the veracity of the linguistic prose within an amplified media-driven metamorphosized contextual interpretation. However, if the substantiability of his reasoning or vis-a-vis metaphoric consumability of his intellectual vigour and axiomatic invulnerability are not appreciably conveyed to all Australians. A cataclysmic dissonance may result at the next assemblage of the Australian constituency.  

Barring government sponsored handouts of course.  He'll still probably get up against Turntable at the next election


----------



## Buddy (6 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

So here's his latest rant.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/rudd-accuses-climate-change-sceptics-coalition-of-reckless-bet-on-climate-change/story-e6frgczf-1225795135536

You see, Prime Minister, I am neither of the 3 you choose to abuse. I put it to you, that if CO2 is so harmful, why do you not legislate to ban or regulate it? Didn't we ban lead in petrol? Didn't we ban HFCs ,etc? Didn't we ban DDT and a whole lot of other harmful chemicals? So do the same with CO2.  The problem you have, is that I just do not trust you, to the extent that I think you are putting your personal ambition above the good of the nation. I will NEVER trust a politican who proposes a solution to a physical problem by introducing a tax. You are just another politian who cannot be trusted.


----------



## -Bevo- (6 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Buddy said:


> So here's his latest rant.
> 
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/rudd-accuses-climate-change-sceptics-coalition-of-reckless-bet-on-climate-change/story-e6frgczf-1225795135536




_In a blistering attack on Coalition opponents of the government carbon pollution reduction scheme and commentators who have cast doubt on the science of climate change and the necessity to introduce a regime to cut greenhouse gas emissions, the Prime Minister has accused them of bowing to vested interests_

Sure its not you Mr Rudd who is bowing to vested interests.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/en...ore-profiting-from-climate-change-agenda.html


----------



## Julia (6 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



-Bevo- said:


> _In a blistering attack on Coalition opponents of the government carbon pollution reduction scheme and commentators who have cast doubt on the science of climate change and the necessity to introduce a regime to cut greenhouse gas emissions, the Prime Minister has accused them of bowing to vested interests_
> 
> Sure its not you Mr Rudd who is bowing to vested interests.



I had exactly that thought when I listened to him ranting as above.

He is in deep **** with the asylum seekers fiasco, and seeking to divert attention away from his own impotence.

There is more likelihood of the electorate recognising this than would have been the case a year ago.
Listening to an ABC talkback programme last night about the boat people, the fury of listeners was remarkable.  Mind you, these were probably the same listeners who didn't approve of the $900 handouts etc.

That aside, there seems to be at least some turning of the tide against Teflon Kevin.


----------



## moXJO (7 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> I had exactly that thought when I listened to him ranting as above.
> 
> He is in deep **** with the asylum seekers fiasco, and seeking to divert attention away from his own impotence.
> 
> ...




Turnbull needs to grow a pair and go on the attack. Hammering home why the ETS will do nothing for the environment, jobs, farming and industry is a must at this stage. Rudd is trying to use guilt, and IMO dirty sales tactics to try and get the ets through on confused public opinion. Rudd’s arrogance and spin are very exposed at the moment. And with a chance of a DD, they should be capitalizing on the fact that they support a sensible ets, but not one that will tax us to death for no benefit.
Libs need to step it up a bit. They have two key issues that they can win the public over on.


----------



## MrBurns (7 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

The tides certainly turning, I dont hear a lot of good talk about him from anyone lately.
It's up to you Libs ........it's there for the taking if you're up to it.


----------



## noco (7 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Well, Rupert Murdock is certainly not inspired by this weasal Prime Minister of ours.

On an interview on AM Agenda this morning, Murdock stated "Rudd was thin skined and is more interested in leading the World instead of Australia". He also said, "most of the stimulus package was unnecessary, but Rudd said ME TOO I must follow the rest of the world and spend up big".

One of our ASF members quoted some time ago :-

Kevin 07 is in heaven,
Kevin 08 is great,
Kevin 09 is in decline
Kevin 10 never again.

Looks like that member may be right. Let's hope so.


----------



## MrBurns (7 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noco said:


> more interested in leading the World instead of Australia".




Ain't that the truth.........at the rate he's going even Turnbull might be able to beat him.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (8 November 2009)

*Howard monsters Rudd*

This is from the Daily Telegraph , a publication not given to inaccuracy or hyperbole.

Poor Kev, Johnnie really gets stuck in to him in this lecture.

I doubt if Rudd will turn up on Monday for morning prayers.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...the-boats-howard/story-e6frewt0-1225795330694

Howard says he'd stop the boats and Rudd has no bottle.

gg


----------



## dbcok (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*

Interesting that the conservative tag team of that American Murdoch and Howard seem to be acting in tandem.The conservatives fight back!
"In victory revenge in defeat malice" The last part refers to Howard....get over it John!
I wonder if they planned their attack on Rudd at the Bush ranch.


----------



## Tink (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*

Who cares what Howard thinks.

Maybe someone will throw another shoe at him


----------



## GumbyLearner (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*

I think Howard was much better than Turntable.

*Turnbull adviser quits over Hitler video* 

OPPOSITION Leader Malcolm Turnbull's media minder, Thomas Tudehope, has quit after he was linked to a spoof YouTube video portraying a Liberal backbencher as Adolf Hitler.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/turnbull-adviser-quits-over-hitler-video-20091107-i2vw.html


----------



## Julia (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*

Mr Howard has been remarkably quiet since leaving, in contrast to some other ex-Prime Ministers.

Seems to be a case of Liberals capitalising on Mr Rudd's present lack of favour with the electorate, and is probably the first sensible move they've made in some time.


----------



## Dowdy (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



Tink said:


> Who cares what Howard thinks.
> 
> Maybe someone will throw another shoe at him




You're think about Bush.

As with Howard, you should of said He should practice his cricket bowling instead


----------



## Zird (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*

During the Howard years Australia went backwards to the 1950's white picket fence vision. Public Schools, public Hospitals, Universities and research institutions, Arts & creativity, intellectual life, social justice and inequality, Aboriginal race relations retreated back to a pre 1970's era mentality. The politicisation of the public service, judicial system and parts of the defense structures was outrageous.
Why anybody pays any attention to him is beyond me.


----------



## Julia (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*

Zird, some of us might take into consideration the minor matter of that government paying off considerable debt and leaving with a substantial surplus.


----------



## Gamblor (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



Julia said:


> Zird, some of us might take into consideration the minor matter of that government paying off considerable debt and leaving with a substantial surplus.




Yeah it was really hard selling off Telstra


----------



## nulla nulla (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*

John Howard just has his nose out of joint because Kevin Rudd hasn't offered him a job.


----------



## noco (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



nulla nulla said:


> John Howard just has his nose out of joint because Kevin Rudd hasn't offered him a job.




Nulla Nulla, don't talk crap for God sake, Howard is almost 70 is enjoying life. Would you be looking for a job at his age?

Next thing you will be saying give Gough a job!!!!


----------



## Zird (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*

Julia, to coin a labor party phrase 'a drovers dog could have left a surplus' after so many years of global economic boom. Trouble is Australia's infrastructure roads/health/environment/education/research and development etc went backwards during the Howard years.

 There was no real vision for a prosperous, creative intelligent country that put it's faith in it's people. Just smash the unions, dig up the resources and ship it to whoever. 

One simple example is of Australia a cronic lack of skilled tradespeople. Howard's (and others) solution - was not to beef up the Tafe system with great bonuses to people that would train school leavers etc  but to import sub-standard workers.

Nothing was achieved to fix the immense problem of the Murray/Darling river system - Australia's food bowl. Howard's solution was to open the flood gates of cheap, poor quality food from 3rd world countries. 

Our Universites are in a long decline of standards and quality of graduates. Ask any Uni Professor. Howards solution was to force Uni's to import fee paying OS students in huge numbers at the expense of teaching Aussie students..
Where was  the action on being a smart country when public schools/Tafe and Universities are neglected and funding reduced year after year.

Yes Julia it was a healthy surplus but one built on the decline of our great countries infrastructure.

I am not an ALP hack -  both parties have a similiar stench of self opinionated hypocracy.


----------



## GumbyLearner (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



Zird said:


> Julia, to coin a labor party phrase 'a drovers dog could have left a surplus' after so many years of global economic boom. Trouble is Australia's infrastructure roads/health/environment/education/research and development etc went backwards during the Howard years.
> 
> There was no real vision for a prosperous, creative intelligent country that put it's faith in it's people. Just smash the unions, dig up the resources and ship it to whoever.
> 
> ...




Great post full of substance Zird. 
Great one for the one-eyed idealogues also to ignore.
However, I enjoyed reading it.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



GumbyLearner said:


> Great post full of substance Zird.
> Great one for the one-eyed idealogues also to ignore.
> However, I enjoyed reading it.




I'd certainly agree with your estimation of Zird's post. Right on the button.

gg


----------



## Zird (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*

Thanks Gumby. This forum is great. A place for debate and contrary views where personal attact is left out. Thank goodness for free speech. Long live Oz.


----------



## beerwm (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



Zird said:


> Where was  the action on being a smart country when public schools/Tafe and Universities are neglected and funding reduced year after year.




Last time i checked, public schools were run/funded by state governments.... Labor state governments.

Water.... labor state governments again, but cant blame the federal government to wanting to overhaul that.

but dont let facts get in the way of a good rant :


----------



## GumbyLearner (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



beerwm said:


> Last time i checked, public schools were run/funded by state governments.... Labor state governments.
> 
> Water.... labor state governments again, but cant blame the federal government to wanting to overhaul that.
> 
> but dont let facts get in the way of a good rant :




See what I mean Zird. Even though beerwm is correct about public state schools and water. The substance of you post has largely been ignored. 

But the factual abstract of your post stands.

*University funding among lowest in OECD*

PUBLIC spending on higher education remains well below the levels in other developed countries, the Organisation of Economic Co-operation and Development says.

While spending from all sources in Australia's universities was just above the OECD average, most came from private funds.

Australia ranked with the United States, Korea, Chile and Japan as countries with more than half their annual investment in universities from private sources.

*Australia's public spending on higher education was among the lowest of the 34 developed countries covered by the OECD report, with only Russia, Brazil, Japan, Italy, Korea and Chile spending less in public funds on their institutions as a proportion of their economic output.*

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national...-lowest-in-oecd/2007/09/18/1189881513646.html


----------



## nulla nulla (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



noco said:


> Nulla Nulla, don't talk crap for God sake, Howard is almost 70 is enjoying life. Would you be looking for a job at his age?
> 
> Next thing you will be saying give Gough a job!!!!




Yes, due to the pathetic legacy of John Howard, I expect to bo working in my 70's (if i should be fortunate to live so long). 

No, imo Gough has done more than enough to be entitled to enjoy his retirement.


----------



## MrBurns (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*

Bring back Howard now, he could very well win the election.


----------



## nulla nulla (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*

To lead the NRL?


----------



## nunthewiser (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



nulla nulla said:


> To lead the NRL?





CWA probably more fitting


----------



## Zird (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*

Beerwin the real argument is not labor or liberal -  both are appalling. Somebody called them the "Laborials". The question really is  the state of the nation and if Howards years as leader was any good..

Federal Governments allocate funds to the states  as set out in constitution and also  there are many ways of allocating resources via way of  Federal Government initiatives ie such as Roads to recovery"  or computers in schools both of which are state issues.


Howard was more  interested in Liberal Party ideology and his own survival as the new Bob Menzies than the welfare of Australian citizens. Even though the states were Labor they would have accepted grants to boost up things like education, health, environment etc. But there  was none. 

Howards role was to try and destabilise the labour State by bringing about public  disenchantment with state gov'ts by reducing funds for things that people needed such as hospitals, roads  etc.

Howard's ideology was that the government should not be involved in anything and all should be left up to 'private sector'. 

For me, the Howards years at the best were lost opportunities when the economy would have allowed great leap forwards in things like education,  and at worst was just a cynical grab and hold of power.


----------



## nulla nulla (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



nunthewiser said:


> CWA probably more fitting




True, he could probably fit into one of Janets outfits. Would need a bloody big hat but.


----------



## nulla nulla (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



Zird said:


> Beerwin the real argument is not labor or liberal -  both are appalling. Somebody called them the "Laborials". The question really is  the state of the nation and if Howards years as leader was any good..
> 
> Federal Governments allocate funds to the states  as set out in constitution and also  there are many ways of allocating resources via way of  Federal Government initiatives ie such as Roads to recovery"  or computers in schools both of which are state issues.
> 
> ...




And of course his persistant efforts in undermine and erradicate the collective bargaining power of workers through their right to join unions.


----------



## nulla nulla (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



Zird said:


> Beerwin the real argument is not labor or liberal -  both are appalling. Somebody called them the "Laborials". The question really is  the state of the nation and if Howards years as leader was any good..
> 
> Federal Governments allocate funds to the states  as set out in constitution and also  there are many ways of allocating resources via way of  Federal Government initiatives ie such as Roads to recovery"  or computers in schools both of which are state issues.
> 
> ...




And let us not forget his efforts to dismantle medicare.


----------



## Krusty the Klown (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*

Regardless of party politics, or whether you are a Labor or Liberal supporter, the fact of John Howard's statements is very indicative of his view of the Australian public.

He thinks we are all d*ckh#@ds.

It says more about how big his ego is than what the facts are.

He was lucky enough to be in power during the biggest economic boom in Australian history, not due to anything he, his policy or his government did. 

He was lucky enough in the economic cycle that he did not experience a recession during his "reign". The economic and asset boom was due to global forces.

He did not have to cope with a one in a hundred year economic catastrophe, which required the injection of state funds - a basic principle of Keynesian economics which is what surpluses are there for.

Yet he thinks we will believe that the last two years of economic instabililty are due to the Labor Government?

He still thinks we will believe what he says because we are all morons.

After all, in 1996 he said the GST was "dead and buried" and then when elected one of his first acts was to start planning the implementation of the GST!

Then we still voted him in!!!

Is it any wonder that he still spouts this verbal diarrhoea and expects us to believe him.

History will be the judge.

P.S. I am not a Labor supporter, they are no different to him.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*

I think Howard did a good job.

He could have done better.

He stayed too long.

gg


----------



## namrog (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



noco said:


> Nulla Nulla, don't talk crap for God sake, Howard is almost 70 is enjoying life. Would you be looking for a job at his age?
> 
> Next thing you will be saying give Gough a job!!!!




If the power hungry little thug had won the election, he'd still be working, wouldn't he ??

As long as the party wanted him ,off course..


----------



## MrBurns (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*

Howard and Costello gave Rudd the money to hand out when we need it, TAKE NOTE - see how much is left when Krudd gets tossed out


----------



## beerwm (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



Krusty the Klown said:


> Regardless of party politics, or whether you are a Labor or Liberal supporter, the fact of John Howard's statements is very indicative of his view of the Australian public.
> 
> He thinks we are all d*ckh#@ds.
> 
> ...




these global forces you talk about put other advanced economies around the world in massive billion/trillion dollar deficits. Australia surplus.

when the squeeze came...
did you think our banks didnt implode.... just by coincidence?

I dont know really know what infrastructure everyone in this thread actually wanted from the Howard government?
is it the debt.burdening-future.tax.hike infrastructure that Rudd is giving us now... or maybe the broadband network that doesnt quite add up?

no tax, no debt or infrastructure, you cant have it all.


----------



## noco (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



nulla nulla said:


> Yes, due to the pathetic legacy of John Howard, I expect to bo working in my 70's (if i should be fortunate to live so long).
> 
> No, imo Gough has done more than enough to be entitled to enjoy his retirement.



Gough had three disastruos years as Pm, almost wreaked the country and got the sack. Well done Gough!

You most likely will have to work untill your 70 if our fearless leader keeps raising the pension age.

I guess the latest poll tells all. The honeymoon is finaly over as more and more people wake up to Rudd's spin.

Rupert Murdoch comments Rudd is thin skined and more interested in ruling the world instead of Australia. Rudd's stimulas package was a "ME TOO" stunt to follow other countries who were in greater financial difficulties than Australia. No doubt Rudd was left a very healthy bank account and could have executed the same effect with half the money he wasted.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



noco said:


> Gough had three disastruos years as Pm, almost wreaked the country and got the sack. Well done Gough!
> 
> You most likely will have to work untill your 70 if our fearless leader keeps raising the pension age.
> 
> ...




I'd agree with those sentiments and your assessment of Whitlam, Noco, mate.

gg


----------



## moXJO (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*

Howard is right either way though. Rudd has done nothing but symbolic gestures. I would rather some form of economic management, instead of the current system of "here's another handout so spend spend spend".


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



moXJO said:


> Howard is right either way though. Rudd has done nothing but symbolic gestures. I would rather some form of economic management, instead of the current system of "here's another handout so spend spend spend".




I feel sorry for Kev07 sitting up tonight in his jammies, reading all the crap we are dealing out to him.

He won't sleep well tonight and will be very very grumpy in the morning when the ABC National AM Radio lefties come to rescue him from that orrible little man Johnnie.

gg


----------



## Julia (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



Zird said:


> Trouble is Australia's infrastructure roads/health/environment/education/research and development etc went backwards during the Howard years.



You're quite right about this.



> There was no real vision for a prosperous, creative intelligent country that put it's faith in it's people. Just smash the unions, dig up the resources and ship it to whoever.



It was time the unions were relieved of some of their power, but the Libs went too far.
Nothing wrong with digging up resources and selling it profitably.
I can't see why you'd be critical of this.
Rudd is going to be dependent on a similar boom resource-wise to get him out of trouble.


> One simple example is of Australia a cronic lack of skilled tradespeople. Howard's (and others) solution - was not to beef up the Tafe system with great bonuses to people that would train school leavers etc  but to import sub-standard workers.



I haven't noticed a deficit of tradespeople to nearly the extent that there is a deficit of health professionals.  This was partly due to the Libs withdrawing some funding from the universities, but also due to the medical Colleges being unwilling to provide supervision for trainee specialists.

Has Labor increased funding to universities, and if so by what percentage?




> Nothing was achieved to fix the immense problem of the Murray/Darling river system - Australia's food bowl. Howard's solution was to open the flood gates of cheap, poor quality food from 3rd world countries.



I don't know enough about the Murray Darling system to comment, but I'm all in favour of importing good quality food from overseas.  If Australian producers can't keep up and be competitive they don't deserve the sale.
I remember last year in the peak of the local asparagus season there were two lots of asparagus on sale:  one was top quality, very fresh, about $1 per bunch.  This was from South America.  The other was stringy and stale, double the price, from a grower in the same State.  Only an idiot would buy the local product.  If we don't import to provide competition, prices and quality will both suffer.



> Our Universites are in a long decline of standards and quality of graduates. Ask any Uni Professor. Howards solution was to force Uni's to import fee paying OS students in huge numbers at the expense of teaching Aussie students..
> Where was  the action on being a smart country when public schools/Tafe and Universities are neglected and funding reduced year after year.



Absolutely valid criticism.



> Yes Julia it was a healthy surplus but one built on the decline of our great countries infrastructure.



So do you think it was more useful for Mr Rudd to spend much of that surplus on handouts to be spent on nothing in particular, just to provide a short term spike in the figures, when he could have instead funded some much needed genuine infrastructure?  Funds that could have built more hospitals e.g. are being spent on school assembly halls that no one wants.  Just talk to a few teachers and principals of the schools.


> I am not an ALP hack -  both parties have a similiar stench of self opinionated hypocracy.



Sadly, you are right.   So it often comes down to a question of personalities, I suppose, along with a few policy decisions.




nulla nulla said:


> And of course his persistant efforts in undermine and erradicate the collective bargaining power of workers through their right to join unions.



Well overdue to diminish the power of the unions.



nulla nulla said:


> And let us not forget his efforts to dismantle medicare.



What were his efforts to dismantle medicare specifically?
It still seems to be more or less functional except for measures such as the Rudd governments recent woeful decision to cut funding for cortisone injections from the PBS.  Many very young and very old arthritis sufferers depend on these to function.
This sort of move is the basis of my objection to the $900 handouts.
The amount has to be clawed back somehow, and this is the first of the essential services to get the chop to that end.




moXJO said:


> Howard is right either way though. Rudd has done nothing but symbolic gestures. I would rather some form of economic management, instead of the current system of "here's another handout so spend spend spend".



Agree, especially about the symbolic gestures, e.g. the Apology, Kyoto etc.
Nothing has changes but it all sounded pretty damn good at the time to the fans.


----------



## beerwm (8 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



Krusty the Klown said:


> He thinks we are all d*ckh#@ds.




This is mostly true anyway,

most people base their vote on a 30 second ad, regarding worker's rights or something like climate change.

Kyoto was one that confirms this, the Liberal targets were in line with Kyoto reductions, the reason they didnt sign it was due to its overall failure - US/China being excluded.

but the public sees this as a sign of climate change skepticism.

same can be said with the current ETS.


----------



## dbcok (9 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



Julia said:


> Mr Howard has been remarkably quiet since leaving, in contrast to some other ex-Prime Ministers.
> Julia I think that you have your blinkers and earmuffs on!We all have selective hearing
> Just one example-after Downer resigned he had his input ino who he preferred as the candidate to replace him in Mayo.The media have been kind to John Howard.His whole life has been politics and he is unable to stop now.


----------



## condog (9 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*

Howard was fantastic 

Rudd will monster himself with poor decisions and spin doctoring

Pacific Solution - success or failure

Nationwide awards - sounds like workchoices tarted up

New ports ??? highway upgrades ????  railway upgrades to boost capacity ??? hospital upgrades ????

The only things we have so far from the biggest spending Govt in Aus history is an NBN we dont even know if we need it or not, and school buildings that are 3 times the cost they should be, because they are all being done at once.

Whitlam's economic management may well look good by the time Rudds finished.


----------



## Tink (9 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



namrog said:


> If the power hungry little thug had won the election, he'd still be working, wouldn't he ??
> 
> As long as the party wanted him ,off course..




Yep, the public was so upset with the Liberals that they got wiped out - federal and state. *The public spoke.*

I am a swinging voter, but Ho*WAR*d annoyed me at the end.

I got no interest.


----------



## nulla nulla (9 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*

If he is so good, maybe they should trot Johny out for the next Federal Election. If that doesn't work they could dig up Menzies.


----------



## Tink (9 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



Dowdy said:


> You're think about Bush.
> 
> As with Howard, you should of said He should practice his cricket bowling instead




No, someone threw a shoe at Howard just like they did to Bush


----------



## Timmy (9 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



Tink said:


> No, someone threw a shoe at Howard just like they did to Bush




Yep - story here:
John Howard has become the latest high profile politician to have a shoe thrown at him


----------



## moXJO (9 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



nulla nulla said:


> And of course his persistant efforts in undermine and erradicate the collective bargaining power of workers through their right to join unions.





The unions... Where are they now? 
All trying to keep in line, and follow Rudd’s bs in spite of:
 Pension age rises
 Rudd’s own abuse of staffs rights
 Working families being worse of under Rudd with increase of electricity, food and services due to upcoming ets.
 And the possibility of mining jobs (and many others) getting shafted due to ets (prime union territory I would have thought)

While the unions are made more obsolete under liberals they are fully undermined by federal labor. At least they had some sort of voice before when the govt started shafting us. Perhaps they are just waiting for the Gillard solution.


----------



## Krusty the Klown (9 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*

To be fair, let's look at some facts:

John Howard was in power for 12 odd years (correct me if I'm wrong).

Kevin Rudd has been in power for 2 years.

And Johnny is criticising Rudd because he has not completed 12 years worth of work in 2 years?

In terms of the Liberal surplus that has now gone in to deficit, the current liberal party wanted to put us in to a deficit also to deal with the GFC. So why is this a valid argument? Johnny would have done the same.

Seriously, besides the GST, what is it that Johnny supposedly achieved? And bear in mind I don't count the surplus as this was due to the increase in tax revenue from exports which were beyond his control and would have happened regardless of who was in power at the time.


----------



## Tink (9 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*

Yep Krusty, I agree

Its these one eyed supporters that make me laugh. 

How can you not see that BOTH parties have contributed in one way or another over the years.


----------



## bunyip (9 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



Krusty the Klown said:


> To be fair, let's look at some facts:
> 
> John Howard was in power for 12 odd years (correct me if I'm wrong).
> 
> ...




No, Howard is criticising Rudd for doing bugger all in the two years that he's been in government.
And also for making a complete stuff up of the issue of illegal immigration by boat people.

And don't waste your time by challenging me to name what Howard achieved in his time in office. I'm not here to beat the drum for Howard or any other politician.


----------



## Krusty the Klown (9 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



beerwm said:


> these global forces you talk about put other advanced economies around the world in massive billion/trillion dollar deficits. Australia surplus.




So, your'e saying that Asian and Sub-Continent growth (the regions that have been buying all our commodities) put advanced economies in to deficit?

No, those countries put themselves in to deficit. Through many factors.

Take the US for example. For quite a few years in this decade they were spending $1 billion dollars per DAY on their military. George W spent more money than EVERY preceding president COMBINED. That is not a factor that put Australia in to surplus.



> when the squeeze came...
> did you think our banks didnt implode.... just by coincidence?




I must admit that you are right about this one, however, the Wallis review and the subsequent FSRA in 2001 was what kept our banking system immune to the shenanigans that caused the GFC.

This was one thing that Johnny actually did right i.e. listened to someone else's recommendations and implemented them.


----------



## pilots (9 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*

Bunyip, yes!! little Johnny had a system with the boat people that WORKED, what's the old saying, if its not broke, don't fix it.


----------



## Krusty the Klown (9 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



bunyip said:


> And don't waste your time by challenging me to name what Howard achieved in his time in office. I'm not here to beat the drum for Howard or any other politician.




I'm not challenging you or anybody else, I'm quite sincere with my question. 

When I tried to think about it I couldn't really remember anything that Johnny did that was worth bragging about.

So far I have the GST and the FSRA.

And you have to be fair to KRudd, the GFC came along within his first year in power, and effectively used up all the surplus and created a deficit - coping with this would derail any PM's plans. 

So reacting and steering the country through the biggest economic and financial crisis in 80 years is not doing anything?


----------



## Krusty the Klown (9 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*

I just thought of another Howard achievement.

He inserted the word "mateship" in the Aussie Constitution and then called a press conference to announce it.

Gee Johnny, I guess your "mates" in your electorate didn't hear about it when they tossed you for Maxine McKew!!!


----------



## Calliope (9 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*

I wondered where all the Howard Haters (Rudd Lovers) had got to. They have been very quiet on the boat people and global warming, but they are back with a vengeance on this thread.


----------



## Krusty the Klown (9 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



Calliope said:


> I wondered where all the Howard Haters (Rudd Lovers) had got to. They have been very quiet on the boat people and global warming, but they are back with a vengeance on this thread.




Why if you are a Howard critic (not hater), do you automatically have to be a Rudd lover?

I don't vote for either Liberal or Labor, as they are both very similar.

KRudd does not escape my sights.

In this thread I am only addressing the ridiculous and untrue statements made by Howard toward KRudd recently, which is the thread subject. 

Don't worry too much Calliope, KRudd will put foot in mouth again before too long, and I will afford him the same scrutiny.

In terms of boat people, 95% of asylum seekers enter Australia by plane and that is a non-issue.

With this in mind I still don't understand why the brouhaha over boat borne refugees - is it that either party does not want the poor refugees only the wealthy ones?

It's interesting that most people are polarised in thought in regard to politics. You are either for one or for the other, never a third view, or an impartial view i.e. if you make a criticism you are automatically for the other.


----------



## wayneL (9 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



Krusty the Klown said:


> It's interesting that most people are polarised in thought in regard to politics. You are either for one or for the other, never a third view, or an impartial view i.e. if you make a criticism you are automatically for the other.




It's not just politics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attitude_polarization


----------



## lasty (9 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*

Yes its polarisation at its best.
We all know that Labor spends it and the Libs/Nationals repay it and we know that Labor stands for warm and fuzzy things but lack logistics where as the Liberals take the tough stance and upset the thin skinned.

As for the rest of the parties.. They are there to make up the numbers.


----------



## Julia (9 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



Krusty the Klown said:


> And you have to be fair to KRudd, the GFC came along within his first year in power, and effectively used up all the surplus and created a deficit - coping with this would derail any PM's plans.
> 
> So reacting and steering the country through the biggest economic and financial crisis in 80 years is not doing anything?



The criticism many of us have had of the handling of the GFC has been the enormous amount handed out to everyone for them to waste if they wished.
Yes, the Libs would also have applied a stimulus but they would have used the funds on something which would have had a longer term view, provided employment in its application, and given us some e.g. necessary infrastructure into the future.  

I don't think I'm the only one who considers that the cash handouts were to provide instant results for around six months, thus avoiding the 'two quarters of negative growth' so that politically the government could claim they have avoided a recession.  

And yes, it has worked.  We have not had a technical recession.
But what do we have to show for spending that large amount of money?



Krusty the Klown said:


> Why if you are a Howard critic (not hater), do you automatically have to be a Rudd lover?



Plenty of us are 'fence sitters' and are simply commenting on policy and government behaviour as we see it.  Because Labor is in power, then obviously they are going to be making the decisions, which are then up for approval or criticism.  That doesn't make people disagreeing with the government ipso facto wholly happy with everything Mr Howard did.

And (to borrow a Ruddism)  "can I just say" that I really dislike the phrase "little Johnny".  It's personal and derogatory.  If you have something to criticise about any politician, why not keep it to his actions and/or policies, rather than making any unnecessary personal references.  We don't elect them or fire them on the basis of their size or appearance.  (Well, I hope not.)

And Tink, for someone who claims to be a swinging voter, you could have fooled me!


----------



## Bushman (9 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*

As a reminder, Keating called Howard a 'dessicated coconut'


----------



## moXJO (9 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



Bushman said:


> As a reminder, Keating called Howard a 'dessicated coconut'




Keating also called Australia 'the ar$e end of the world'


----------



## Krusty the Klown (9 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



Julia said:


> The criticism many of us have had of the handling of the GFC has been the enormous amount handed out to everyone for them to waste if they wished.
> Yes, the Libs would also have applied a stimulus but they would have used the funds on something which would have had a longer term view, provided employment in its application, and given us some e.g. necessary infrastructure into the future.
> 
> I don't think I'm the only one who considers that the cash handouts were to provide instant results for around six months, thus avoiding the 'two quarters of negative growth' so that politically the government could claim they have avoided a recession.
> ...




I agree, but the point I have been making is that Howard said KRudd has done nothing since gaining power. I'm saying coping with the fallout of and taking action against the GFC, whether you think it was the right or wrong measure, is _actually doing something_.

If KRudd took no action about the GFC and ignored it, what would Howard say then? That he did nothing? That's what he _is_ saying.



> Plenty of us are 'fence sitters' and are simply commenting on policy and government behaviour as we see it.  Because Labor is in power, then obviously they are going to be making the decisions, which are then up for approval or criticism.  That doesn't make people disagreeing with the government ipso facto wholly happy with everything Mr Howard did.




So we are both sitting on the same fence then.



> And (to borrow a Ruddism)  "can I just say" that I really dislike the phrase "little Johnny".  It's personal and derogatory.  If you have something to criticise about any politician, why not keep it to his actions and/or policies, rather than making any unnecessary personal references.  We don't elect them or fire them on the basis of their size or appearance.  (Well, I hope not.)




The term Little Johnny is not derogatory, it is factual. His name is Jonathan, John, Johnny and he is short in stature compared to average male height. Its been his nickname since he entered politics.

I still think Paul Keating's nickname was better - "Old Jellyback". At least that was funny.


----------



## Calliope (9 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



Krusty the Klown said:


> So we are both sitting on the same fence then.




While I found Howard hard to like, I find Rudd loathsome. The main difference is that Howard's policies were never designed to harm me or Australia.  Rudd's policies certainly are. His lust for self-aggrandisement can only be at the expense of me and my country.


----------



## pilots (9 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*

I am waiting for Xmas, all the people that got the hand out have all bought all the TVs, and such like, now what is Krudd going to tell all the big stores this Xmas when no one is buying.


----------



## nulla nulla (9 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



moXJO said:


> Keating also called Australia 'the ar$e end of the world'




And lets not forget the banana republic.


----------



## Chris45 (9 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



Krusty the Klown said:


> When I tried to think about it I couldn't really remember anything that Johnny did that was worth bragging about.



What about backing Chris Corrigan to take on the MUA and force changes which have significantly increased productivity on our wharves? No Labor govt. would have allowed it.


----------



## Chris45 (9 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



Zird said:


> Thank goodness for free speech. Long live Oz.



Don't kid yourself that we have 'free speech' in Oz. Free speech is a myth! This country, especially our internet forums, is infested with 'speech police' who will come down on you like a ton of bricks if you accidentally say the wrong thing.


----------



## Tink (10 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



Julia said:


> And Tink, for someone who claims to be a swinging voter, you could have fooled me!




Oh well, I like to even up the table 

As I said, I dont like Howard. He lost me completely with the Hicks case. 

Every other country got their people but ours was left there for 5yrs. 
He was too busy listening to Bush

Rudds still new on the scene, I am giving him the benefit of the doubt, for now.


----------



## bunyip (10 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



Tink said:


> Rudds still new on the scene, I am giving him the benefit of the doubt, for now.




I doubt if you'll see much benefit in him if he keeps bumbling along with ill-considered policies like he's been doing so far!


----------



## lasty (10 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



bunyip said:


> I doubt if you'll see much benefit in him if he keeps bumbling along with ill-considered policies like he's been doing so far!




Policies?
Dont you mean hallucinogenics?


----------



## dbcok (10 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



Chris45 said:


> Don't kid yourself that we have 'free speech' in Oz. Free speech is a myth! This country, especially our internet forums, is infested with 'speech police' who will come down on you like a ton of bricks if you accidentally say the wrong thing.





As one small example-one of the many-Kyle Sandilands found out how much free speech there is in Australia.A little more than sfa.


----------



## Calliope (10 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



Tink said:


> As I said, I dont like Howard. He lost me completely with the Hicks case.
> 
> Every other country got their people but ours was left there for 5yrs.




It was a great victory for the bleeding hearts and the Taliban. Many of those released returned to Afghanistan to continue their fight against the dreaded  Coalition invaders and those misguided people who believe in democracy and the rights of women.


----------



## Tink (10 November 2009)

*Re: Howard monsters Rudd*



Calliope said:


> It was a great victory for the bleeding hearts and the Taliban. Many of those released returned to Afghanistan to continue their fight against the dreaded  Coalition invaders and those misguided people who believe in democracy and the rights of women.




No sorry, you dont hold someone for 5yrs with no trial.

I dont agree

and now we are off topic..


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (11 November 2009)

*Herr Rudd*

I have been privileged to receive some unedited proclamations from the PM's office in Canberra.



Ze Australian people vill decide vvo komes into our kountry undt vvo does neint. Achtung!!

Neinnezzeless ve assert a kompassionate attitude to all r-r-refugees. Achtung!! 

Zis iss ze  vort uff Herr R-r-rudd. Naturlich!

Listen up you shtupid ninkempooks. Achtung!!

Herr Rudd.


gg


----------



## Solly (11 November 2009)

*Re: Herr Rudd*

...


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (11 November 2009)

*Re: Herr Rudd*

Solly zat iss unt great fotograf uff Herr Schwann.

gg


----------



## Solly (11 November 2009)

*Re: Herr Rudd*

Ve have vays...


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (11 November 2009)

*Re: Herr Rudd*

Herr Hockey undt I are ze best uff kamaraden from our Sunrise days. Achtung!! 

gg


----------



## Solly (11 November 2009)

*Re: Herr Rudd*

Ahh Vot about thiz suckessfil Fin Planna frem Ze Nurth Shoree.

He knews nuzing.

Com fli withz him in hiz Heinkel


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (11 November 2009)

*Re: Herr Rudd*

Vudd dis be zee Manny in der Heinkl vot der bastarden vanted fur Strum Finanz?

gg


----------



## nunthewiser (11 November 2009)

*Re: Herr Rudd*

mmmmmm

And there we have it.


Just say no to drugs kids.


----------



## Solly (11 November 2009)

*Re: Herr Rudd*

Zee heed of zee associzatn as deerected ze nut to communt.


----------



## Solly (11 November 2009)

*Re: Herr Rudd*



nunthewiser said:


> mmmmmm
> 
> And there we have it.
> 
> ...




Nun my netbook is running out of battery. Can you send a unit to the tav rn at H pe Isl  d Vil ge Mar.......


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (12 November 2009)

*Re: Herr Rudd*

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/11/09/2737913.htm?section=world

Herr R-r-rudd today adfised India zat uUanium iss out fur India undt  zat ze asylum seekers vould nefer efer iss qveue chum efen in a zousent years. Achtung!! Herr R-r-rudd met mitt some young people at a Youzz meetingkt undt patiently listened to zeir bleatingkts. Achtung!! Zis followed on a glorious fisit to ze troops on ze Vestern Front. Achtung!!

gg


----------



## 2020hindsight (12 November 2009)

*Re: Herr Rudd*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> I have been privileged to receive some unedited proclamations from the PM's office in Canberra.
> 
> "Ze Australian people vill decide vvo komes into our kountry undt vvo does neint. Achtung!!"



hey gg, I could have sworn I've heard those words before - cept they were signed "Herr (Kleine John) Howard". 

Canberra ist full of dumkoffs anscheinend. Shame they don't put you in charge lol.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (12 November 2009)

*Re: Herr Rudd*



2020hindsight said:


> hey gg, I could have sworn I've heard those words before - cept they were signed "Herr (Kleine John) Howard".
> 
> Canberra ist full of dumkoffs anscheinend. Shame they don't put you in charge lol.




Herr R-r-rudd has spent many long hours in his bunker learningkt from ze great lieders uff ze past such as Kleine John.

gg


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (12 November 2009)

*Re: Herr Rudd*

Ve in Australia are here fur  ze long haul,” R-r-rudd told forces, accortingkt to Australian Broadcastingkt Korp. Achtung!! footage. Naturlich! He also held talks mitt  ze U.S. khief uff NATO operations in Afghanistan, General Shtanley McChrystal, vvo vants more manpower fur  ze mission, ze ABC said. Naturlich!

Ze ofernight trip follows komments by Australian Defense Minister ChJohann Faulkner last monzz, vvo said he vas examiningkt how to speed up kompletingkt ze trainingkt uff local forces in Afghanistan. Naturlich! U.S. President Barack Obama jatertay met mitt security adfisers undt military kommenters as he determines vvezzer to kommit more troops to ze  var. Achtung!!

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601081&sid=aaFUVLbJ2a3Q

gg


----------



## jono1887 (12 November 2009)

*Re: Herr Rudd*

hahaha.. this thread is hilarious


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (12 November 2009)

*Re: Herr Rudd*

The Godwin Grech affair seems so far away, an interview I recorded onto an old 78 which I'm playing tonight, thanks ABC.

gg



> Lord Kerry Kerry: A schort time ago, I spoke mitt  ze Prime Minister. Achtung!! He vas in his Parliament House office, Herr R-r-rudd, on r-r-radio zis morningkt undt in ze Parliament today you vere fery keen to argue zat ze entire Opposition kase against you undt  ze Treasurer r-r-rested on ze  kontents uff an email zat you brented as a forgery. Achtung!! But you know  zat zat's neint ze only basis fur concern about your Treasurer's assistance fur  ze Qveenslent kar dealer ChJohann Grant, vvo iss an acqvaintance or friend uff yours. Achtung!! You know  zat zat's neint ze only basis, don't you?
> 
> Herr R-r-rudd: I fundamentally disagree mitt you, Lord Kerry Kerry. Achtung!! Let me go to ze heart uff  ze proposition. Naturlich! Herr Turnbull, ze Liberal Party's out zere accusingkt meinself as Prime Minister undt  ze Treasurer uff  korruption. Naturlich! VVat's his basis fur sayingkt zat? He has said zat I haf made a kommunication on behalf uff Herr Grant to ze Australian Treasury, undt as a konseqvence haf kaused ze Treasurer to act in a vay to support Herr Grant's interests vvich vould neint ozzerwise neinrmally occur. Achtung!! Zat's ze essence uff it. Achtung!!
> 
> ...


----------



## GumbyLearner (12 November 2009)

*Re: Herr Rudd*

It zeems u haf vergoten hiz cuzins!


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (14 November 2009)

*Re: Herr Rudd*



GumbyLearner said:


> It zeems u haf vergoten hiz cuzins!




Hiss Couzinz, dey vill haf der youses.

An interfew I hadt vith Kef 07. I sed nothingt out uf respekt und schleep.



> Mein friends undt fellow Australians,
> I haf neinticed a perferse internet site Aussie Shtocks Forum , vvich seeks to associate mein visches fur  ze future uff  zis Great Lent to mein supposed aim to be Head uff  ze United Nations. Achtung!!
> 
> I r-r-refute zis fur  ze followingkt nine r-r-reasons. Achtung!! ( Nein iss mein lucky number dumbclucks)
> ...





gg


----------



## Julia (15 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

This is an excellent opinion piece on Mr Rudd by Paul Kelly from "The Australian".

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...ess-that-matters/story-e6frg6z6-1225797344468


----------



## Calliope (15 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> This is an excellent opinion piece on Mr Rudd by Paul Kelly from "The Australian".
> 
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...ess-that-matters/story-e6frg6z6-1225797344468




Well worth reading Julia.

What I would like Julia, is for somebody whose expertise is psychology to explain how it is that Rudd can lie so blatantly, flippantly and easily, without caring who knows it. And also how 63% of the electorate apparently trust him when they know he is such a liar.

Take this little gem reported in the W/E Australian yesterday which occurred at a press conference in New Delhi on Friday;



> Malcolm Farr:  PM, are you aware of some people on the Oceanic Viking coming ashore in Indonesia?
> 
> PM: I am unaware of any such report, Malcolm.




He now even telegraphs his lies, Every time he says "absolutely" it will be followed by a porky.


----------



## Julia (15 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Calliope, I can only think it's one of two reasons:

1. The electorate at large is wrapped up in their own lives.  Unless something impacts them personally, they take little interest.  The memory of the $900 still lurks warmly in their hearts.

2.  The abundant publicity given to the rabble of disarray that is the Opposition presents the voter with little reason to shift their allegiance.

This is pretty reasonable.  Much as I loathe Rudd and Co (despite quite liking Lindsay Tanner and Stephen Smith who I think would be quite good if they were away from the influence of Rudd, Swan and Gillard), I'd be hard pressed to believe Turnbull et al could stop their squabbling long enough to give a minute's thought to running the country.


----------



## Calliope (16 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

True enough Julia. Yet here in Qld. we have incompetents running the opposition and yet Ms Bligh is very unpopular. I suppose it's because that, unlike Rudd, she does not have access to the public purse to bribe the electorate, and she does not have the power to appease the unions that Rudd and Gillard have.


----------



## Calliope (17 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Rudd is still telling his porkies.

He is still denying that he knew about the deal made with the Oceanic Viking Tamils.

And now he said Bambang Yudhonono did not snub him in Singapore. Rudd claimed he had meetings with BY. The Indonesian President's communique on his return referred to meetings with other leaders, including the NZ PM, but no mention of Rudd. 

Along with other Asian leaders he now has Rudd's measure.


----------



## Mofra (17 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> This is an excellent opinion piece on Mr Rudd by Paul Kelly from "The Australian".
> 
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...ess-that-matters/story-e6frg6z6-1225797344468



Given Kelly's (and the newpaper's) right bias it is a surprisingly well-balanced piece that actually spends most of the time analysing the outcome of Rudd's leadership, which for the average Australian is the correct approach for mine because it is the best way to remove the rhetoric from policy effectiveness.


----------



## Calliope (17 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

A banner headline in my local paper reads;

*PM closes book on our "ugly chapter"*

I wouldn't be so sure. An orchestrated apology from the king of spin doesn't carry much weight. There were cheers and tears and a few boos (because he didn't mention compo) and the "forgotten Australians'' enjoyed the circus, but don't tell me that this crafty man intended anything more than the symbolic gesture, accompanied by the orchestrated hugging.


----------



## Timmy (18 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Gentlemen, please ensure your weapons are loaded.  I again provide you with more fish in a barrel. 

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd and NSW Premier Nathan Rees have opened a wind farm ...


----------



## jancha (18 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Let me see if I understand all this...

IF YOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOUR.

IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY.

IF YOU CROSS THE AFGHAN BORDER ILLEGALLY, YOU GET SHOT.

IF YOU CROSS THE SAUDI ARABIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE JAILED.

IF YOU CROSS THE CHINESE BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU MAY NEVER BE HEARD FROM AGAIN.

IF YOU CROSS THE VENEZUELAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE BRANDED A SPY AND YOUR FATE WILL BE SEALED.

IF YOU CROSS THE CUBAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE THROWN INTO POLITICAL PRISON TO ROT.

IF YOU CROSS THE AUSTRALIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET A JOB, , SOCIAL SECURITY CARD, WELFARE, FOOD STAMPS, SUBSIDIZED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE, FREE EDUCATION, FREE HEALTH CARE, A LOBBYIST IN CANBERRA AND IN MANY INSTANCES YOU CAN VOTE.


----------



## Beej (18 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



jancha said:


> Let me see if I understand all this...
> 
> ... [snip unnecessarily capitilised BS rantings]




Firstly, please learn to turn the caps lock key off.

Secondly, I'm not sure what your post has to do with the topic "Does Rudd inspire confidence", but anyhooo.... to answer your question - no, I don't think you understand "all this" at all! In fact I think you are a very scared and confused individual.

For a start all the countries you are comparing us too are either third world countries, or non-democratic ran by military dictatorships, or communist, or hard-line anti-western religious states and so on. Do you really think that those type of countries provide the example of the moral and legal framework regarding immigration or any other matters that democratic and civilised countries like ours should be aspiring to?

And as for your final point, it's completely wrong. No illegal immigrants have a right to a job, welfare and so on in Australia. Illegal immigrants get sent back from wence they came - you are correct only in that we do not summarily shoot them and so forth - thank goodness! We do however meet obligations that we agreed to under various international treaties to assess and provide asylum to those who are deemed to be legitimately seeking it and entitled to refugee status, (ironically, often because they are fleeing persecution from the very regimes you seem to aspire for us to be like!). 

Do you have a problem with that? Does it threaten you in some way? I really don't understand the red-neck BS that people come out with over the refugee issue.

PS: Mods - maybe my post and the one to which I replied should be moved to the "boat people" thread?

Beej


----------



## jancha (18 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Beej said:


> Firstly, please learn to turn the caps lock key off.
> 
> Secondly, I'm not sure what your post has to do with the topic "Does Rudd inspire confidence", but anyhooo.... to answer your question - no, I don't think you understand "all this" at all! In fact I think you are a very scared and confused individual.
> 
> ...




Beej Get a grip. First up why would i want to turn the caps lock key off? 

Secondly the thread is about Rudd inspiring confidence. Howard government didn't have half the problem as Rudd has with ASYLUM seekers. Rudd imo is a nice bloke but as our leader he doesn't inspire any confidence. Look how the stimulous package was handled.


----------



## lasty (18 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Of course Rudd inspires confidence ... At the Oscars.


----------



## Julia (18 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



jancha said:


> Beej Get a grip. First up why would i want to turn the caps lock key off?



Jancha, I agree with Beej.  A whole post in capitals is like yelling at someone.
I think you might find some reference to this in the Forum guidelines.



> Secondly the thread is about Rudd inspiring confidence. Howard government didn't have half the problem as Rudd has with ASYLUM seekers. Rudd imo is a nice bloke but as our leader he doesn't inspire any confidence. Look how the stimulous package was handled.



Where have you been in the last year?   Rudd's approval rating in successive polls demonstrates only too well (sadly) the uninformed confidence the average punter has in their Prime Minister.

A stimulus package was probably in order, but imo should have been better targeted, i.e. no cash handouts and more infrastructure, but it was essentially politically rather than economically motivated so that Rudd could say he had kept Australia out of recession.


----------



## Calliope (19 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> Where have you been in the last year?   Rudd's approval rating in successive polls demonstrates only too well (sadly) the uninformed confidence the average punter has in their Prime Minister.




According to the latest "Newspoll", 59% of the electorate has faith in Mr Rudd. This comes after his boating and Singapore adventures, where he was exposed as being, not a Messiah, but an ordinary mortal, with many weaknesses.

The fact that he continually lied and then tried to spin his way out of his lies, made little impression on his, apparently rusted on, admirers.

 This is an enigma which can't be fully explained by his cynical use of public money or Turnbull's spinelessness.

 Perhaps if the opposition had the funding to match the dozens of spin doctors in the same numbers and quality as Rudd's team, things might even up. But that is not going to happen. 

The secret seems to be that even if you are a serial liar; with the right spin, you can get away with it. High quality spinners will even throw the guilt back on your opponent.


----------



## jancha (19 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> Jancha, I agree with Beej.  A whole post in capitals is like yelling at someone.
> I think you might find some reference to this in the Forum guidelines.
> 
> 
> ...




Julia thanks for that i was unaware of that being one of forum guide lines however i feel that Rudd's approval rating is based on the fact that he comes across as a nice bloke in a Santa Suit & a fair % of the poll would vote on that alone. I agree that the cash handouts shouldn't have happened eg. deceased people, backpackers who worked here for 6mths & living in the UK receiving cash handouts let alone the rest of us receiving it. ( Should have been handled better) eg. infrastructure. I think as time goes by his Santa image will drop & his ratings will go down with it. You would remember too that the opposition party have had a few problems in finding a new leader in the past & popularity takes time. However I think in the last poll taken there was a small swing back to the opposition. 

In answer to your question I was here last year.


----------



## Beej (19 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> The secret seems to be that even if you are a serial liar; with the right spin, you can get away with it. High quality spinners will even throw the guilt back on your opponent.




True - the master of this was John Howard for 11 long years!!

Beej


----------



## jancha (19 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Beej said:


> True - the master of this was John Howard for 11 long years!!
> 
> Beej




Beej You seem a bit confused this is a tread about Rudd inspiring confidence not about previous governments.


----------



## Calliope (19 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Beej said:


> True - the master of this was John Howard for 11 long years!!
> 
> Beej




You are right. Power resides with the best spinmeister.


----------



## trainspotter (21 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I love the terminology of "media tart" ........ might use it one day myself.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...itor-rudd-risks-paper-cuts-20091120-iqs4.html


----------



## Mr J (29 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



jancha said:


> Rudd imo is a nice bloke






I'm amazed someone can think that, and I'm sure many do. Rudd strikes me as an extremely arrogant, manipulative, uptight s.o.b. One of the worst possible examples of a personality one could find. I'm very sure I'm not alone in my impression.

As for the stimulus package, ETS etc, it all reeks of agenda. Many people don't seem to see that though.


----------



## Wysiwyg (29 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Mr J said:


> I'm amazed someone can think that, and I'm sure many do. Rudd strikes me as an extremely arrogant, manipulative, uptight s.o.b. One of the worst possible examples of a personality one could find. I'm very sure I'm not alone in my impression.



Yes his public persona is all the above. Maybe he is hell bent on constructing a personally optmised state of affairs for our nation with variable parameters that suit his mood of the time. I don't envy his role play. Having to justify all political actions would send anyone around the bend so I would fall short of diagnosing schizophrenia for this reason.


----------



## Moderator (29 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Please note:



Joe Blow said:


> Please do not infringe the copyright of others on ASF.
> 
> I see a lot of people reproducing whole articles and/or not posting a link to or identifying the original source of quoted material.
> 
> ...






Joe Blow said:


> We will be getting tougher on flagrant copyright violations from this moment on. If you are reproducing copyright information on ASF from another source you must do so within the realms of the law.
> 
> You *must* only reproduce a small portion of the article (10% or one or two paragraphs maximum) and you *must* link to the original source.
> 
> ...






Joe Blow said:


> This is still an issue that some people do not seem to be taking seriously.
> 
> There are a few points that I want to make absolutely clear.
> 
> ...




From this thread:
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10373&highlight=copyright

Thank-you


----------



## Uncle Barry (29 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Good evening.
from a post above,

"According to the latest "Newspoll", 59% of the electorate has faith in Mr Rudd"

Polls, interesting,

I have never had anybody from any Poll ask my views, on anything
and today, I asked a number of friends has anybody from any Poll asked you anything ?

And the answer, each and everytime was never !

Which rather makes me think, these so called Polls are a device to have the herd think like the herd, because all the other herd creatures think that way, therefore I must think that way.

Kind regards,
UB
PS, have you been asked by any Poll your views... 
PPS, I will wager there are people have here and I think I could even guess their names, right now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Julia (29 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Mr J said:


> I'm amazed someone can think that, and I'm sure many do. Rudd strikes me as an extremely arrogant, manipulative, uptight s.o.b. One of the worst possible examples of a personality one could find. I'm very sure I'm not alone in my impression.
> 
> As for the stimulus package, ETS etc, it all reeks of agenda. Many people don't seem to see that though.



I completely agree.




Uncle Barry said:


> Good evening.
> from a post above,
> 
> "According to the latest "Newspoll", 59% of the electorate has faith in Mr Rudd"



The latest poll in today's paper, however, whilst not directly related to Mr Rudd, asks should Australia delay the introduction of an ETS until after a global arrangement is reached at Copenhagen.  Result was 60% thought it should be delayed, including 50% of Labor supporters.  This is hardly a ringing endorsement of confidence in Mr Rudd.



> PS, have you been asked by any Poll your views...
> PPS, I will wager there are people have here and I think I could even guess their names, right now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I have been asked once in my 17 years in this country.  It was prior to a State election about ten years ago.


----------



## noco (29 November 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Uncle Barry said:


> Good evening.
> from a post above,
> 
> "According to the latest "Newspoll", 59% of the electorate has faith in Mr Rudd"
> ...




Yes Uncle Barry you are correct. Many voters like to be on the winning side and vote for the party they think will win. These polls can be taken in an area with a strong poltical belief of one party or the other and the pollster know exactly where there is strong Labor support such as in Canberra.

So these pollsters can manipulate the situation to make one party look better than the other.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (2 December 2009)

*Rudd Next SecGen UN*

I think this is Rudd's long term plan.

The Australian PMship is just a stepping stone for his ambition, and ETS is the cost of bribing the unmentionables in Geneva and New York.

gg


----------



## dutchie (2 December 2009)

*Re: Rudd Next SecGen UN*

Unfortunately Garpal I think your spot on.

Working families will pay the bill.


----------



## lasty (2 December 2009)

*Re: Rudd Next SecGen UN*



dutchie said:


> Unfortunately Garpal I think your spot on.
> 
> Working families will pay the bill.




He wont have an option... He will be pleading for political asylum once the  Labor lynch mob have him...


----------



## Calliope (2 December 2009)

*Re: Rudd Next SecGen UN*

There is little  doubt that is his ambition. Earlier in the year he sent the G.G. to Africa to drum up support for him from the third worlders there At the recent Commonwealth Heads of Government in the West Indies he had all the members eating out of his hands.

His next step is to sell us short at Copenhagen  and vote for the proposition that rich countries will compensate the poor countries because we use up all their share of pollution. Rudd will be seen by the Third World  Countries as having a halo around his head.

You can imagine how much further damage he will do us when he gets the job.


----------



## bellenuit (2 December 2009)

*Re: Rudd Next SecGen UN*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> I think this is Rudd's long term plan.
> 
> The Australian PMship is just a stepping stone for his ambition,




gg, you underestimate his ambition. Secretary General is just a stepping stone too. The plethora of books recently on the subject of "God is dead" hasn't gone unnoticed by him. He thinks there may an opening.


----------



## Julia (2 December 2009)

*Re: Rudd Next SecGen UN*



bellenuit said:


> gg, you underestimate his ambition. Secretary General is just a stepping stone too. The plethora of books recently on the subject of "God is dead" hasn't gone unnoticed by him. He thinks there may an opening.


----------



## kitehigh (2 December 2009)

*Re: Rudd Next SecGen UN*

Australia should just give the UN the two finger salute and tell them to jam all those treaties.  But our politicians would never do that because as already mentioned the UN offers plumb jobs to our out going pollies.  More jobs for the boys while the average joe pays the bill....


----------



## centex (2 December 2009)

*Re: Rudd Next SecGen UN*

Gee your a provocative bastard Garpal 

Having said this, I completely agree with you 

I have some sharp words for Rudd!

Yes, lets rush in an ETS so that Ruddy can go to Copenhagen with a medal pinned to his back... that's sure to impress the others. Should work wonders for his future career prospects.

What an insult to the Australian people!

I'm open to Australia cleaning up its act... for the right reasons - not to support somebody's career aspirations.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (5 December 2009)

*Re: Rudd Next SecGen UN*



centex said:


> Gee your a provocative bastard Garpal
> 
> Having said this, I completely agree with you
> 
> ...




The sad thing is that there is a good chance now that Labor will lose the next Federal Election with Tony Abbott leading the Coalition.

Then Rudd can piss off to the UN, with the support of the Libs, as he did their guys favours, Nelson for one comes to mind.

The poor old Labor Party is the one to get shafted. Two and a half years in Government and out for 12 probably.

Poor poor bastards.

And Rudd ends up heading the UN.

gg


----------



## Calliope (5 December 2009)

*Re: Rudd Next SecGen UN*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> And Rudd ends up heading the UN.
> gg




His first job there will be to make Turnbull head of the World Bank. I have this mental image of Malcolm and Lucy going for an afternoon stroll along the banks of Lake Geneva with the four poodles in tow.


----------



## noco (6 December 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Well the latest news is our fearless leader, KRudd, has refused to publicly debate Tony Abbott on the ETS.

Who is the COWARD now?

What has Rudd got to hide?

Full marks to Tony Abbott!

How can anybody be inspired by a COWARD?


----------



## Julia (6 December 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

That's interesting, Noco.  Where did you come by that information?
Do you have a link?
I'd love to see such a debate.
If nothing else, it would be a fascinating exercise in opposite speaking styles.


----------



## bellenuit (7 December 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> That's interesting, Noco.  Where did you come by that information?
> Do you have a link?
> I'd love to see such a debate.
> If nothing else, it would be a fascinating exercise in opposite speaking styles.




I saw it too, on Sky News. Abbott challenged Rudd to a debate on ETS. When asked about it by a reporter, Rudd said something like Abbott would be better off spending his time developing a environmental policy of his own.


----------



## lasty (7 December 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



bellenuit said:


> I saw it too, on Sky News. Abbott challenged Rudd to a debate on ETS. When asked about it by a reporter, Rudd said something like Abbott would be better off spending his time developing a environmental policy of his own.




Yes its true , however Rudd is currently taking lessons off North Korea and banning all forms of communication so you will find those findings to be deleted by now.

No doubt Rudds findings from Copenhagen will be he bought and Ice Cream and it started melting so we need an ETS.


----------



## Mofra (7 December 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



bellenuit said:


> I saw it too, on Sky News. Abbott challenged Rudd to a debate on ETS. When asked about it by a reporter, Rudd said something like Abbott would be better off spending his time developing a environmental policy of his own.



Nothing new. Typical opposition political tactic, followed by a typical incumbant government response. 

It will be interetsing to see how the Libs position themselves from here. If Abbott can come up with a plan to reduce emissions without a multi-billion dollar tax-grab, the Libs could define themselves as the fiscally responsible party as an election platform (especially considering the $43b waste of funds known as the NBN), and Abbott could start to transform himself from the bully with the acidic personality to a credible challenger.


----------



## noco (7 December 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> That's interesting, Noco.  Where did you come by that information?
> Do you have a link?
> I'd love to see such a debate.
> If nothing else, it would be a fascinating exercise in opposite speaking styles.



Sorry Julia I don't have a link, heard it on Skynews and again on Channel 9 news.Check out Skynews on the net.
Kevin Rudd has refused to take up the challenge, that's why I say he is a coward first class. He does not  want the people of Australia to know the truth about this crazy ETS and CPRS.
I'd love to see a debate too, but I cannot see it happening.


----------



## dbcok (7 December 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noco said:


> Well the latest news is our fearless leader, KRudd, has refused to publicly debate Tony Abbott on the ETS.
> 
> Who is the COWARD now?
> 
> ...




Hey noco you loco!
Time for siesta -stay away from the cantina hombre.


----------



## justjohn (7 December 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Heard that Rudd turned down the offer of a debate on radio .Rudd told Abbott to get his Liberal house in order before he would consider a debate on ETS.Sounds like Rudd is on the run with his lack of knowledge on the ETS.


----------



## bellenuit (7 December 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Following Obama deciding to defer his attendance from the beginning of the Copenhagen conference to the end of that conference, Rudd has decided to do likewise. This is further proof that he is more interested in furthering his personal ambitions that in particular policies. Rudd will soon be an embarrassment if he continues to stalk Obama to promote his own profile.


----------



## justjohn (7 December 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Rudd and Obama might as well find a motel room and get it over with


----------



## wayneL (7 December 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



bellenuit said:


> Rudd will soon be an embarrassment....




What do you mean "soon"?


----------



## Calliope (7 December 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



justjohn said:


> Rudd and Obama might as well find a motel room and get it over with




They may as well take Turncoat along with them and make it a _menage a trois_


----------



## noco (7 December 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



dbcok said:


> Hey noco you loco!
> Time for siesta -stay away from the cantina hombre.




Your insidious remarks about a fellow ASF member is typical of your type when the truth hurts. I have obviously hit a nerve in your brain which has no control over your mouth.


----------



## inenigma (7 December 2009)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



dbcok said:


> Hey noco you loco!
> Time for siesta -stay away from the cantina hombre.




You must be from Melbourne.


----------



## Mofra (20 January 2010)

*Rudd the comedian*

Rudd will always be good for a laugh. Check this out:

http://www.theage.com.au/national/rudd-slams-howard-spree-20100119-mj42.html



> *Rudd slams Howard 'spree'*
> 
> KEVIN Rudd has accused his predecessor of undue largesse and exacerbating the financial strain on Australia as it deals with an ageing population.
> 
> On the second day of a whistlestop tour of the country, the Prime Minister said overspending in boom times under John Howard had set an unsustainable pattern of spending.




So we have the highest spending PM in this nation's history (on useful items such as a broadband network that wont actually increase internet speed at all because they "forgot" to consider part of the cabling) and he accuses a former PM of spending too much? 

Howard may have been far less than the financial guru he claims to be, but the drunken sailor approach to spending is something Rudd has developed into a fine art.


----------



## moXJO (20 January 2010)

*Re: Rudd the comedian*

What happened to Rudd's "end of the blame game"? How much longer can he point the finger at everyone else?
Labor is living in some kind of denial bubble where they can do no wrong


----------



## Aussiejeff (20 January 2010)

*Re: Rudd the comedian*



moXJO said:


> What happened to Rudd's "end of the blame game"? How much longer can he point the finger at everyone else?
> *Labor is living in some kind of denial bubble where they can do no wrong*




Until this inevitably happens :fan  ...


----------



## Old Mate (20 January 2010)

*Re: Rudd the comedian*

My respect for Kevin Rudd continues to climb higher and higher....


----------



## Aussiejeff (20 January 2010)

*Re: Rudd the comedian*

Have you heard Chairman KRudd's latest joke?

Apparently, in 2050 the NewAge continent of AustChindia will be running annual budget surpluses of $AUS150Billion ... AND Chairman KRudd will still be Primed Minister (courtesy of planned KRuddCo Cryogenics (tm) advancements)!!!

Har, har, har!!!

Now, that is seriously funny stuff. 

The lil' guy is a born comedienne.



Look into yer Krystal Ballz again, mate, 'n tell us another one.... hee hee


----------



## Buddy (20 January 2010)

*Re: Rudd the comedian*

Indeed.

Now lets get this straight. Rudd says................ By 2050:-
Population increases by about 50%.
Productivity has to increase by about 1 1/2 %.
We will maintain our humanitarian immigration policy whereby rickshaw drivers, farm labourers and general layabouts (and families) get Australian welfare.
We will spend zillions on infrastructure (dedicated truck routes, ports, etc).
Working population decreases relative to retirees.
We will go to budget surpluses.
Direct and indirect taxes will increase to pay for something or other.
Cut the Medibank rebate (people will not get sick anymore).
No more private schools. Unless they are muslim.
An ETS will be introduced....... a new mega tax base.....to transfer Australia's wealth to various flea bitten countries/dictators.
CO2 level will be reduced by somewhere between 5 -30%. Of 1990 levels!
The Murray-Darlin basin will recover, and S.A. will have water.
No more farting cows.
We will get rid of all those landed gentry (National Party voters) who have destroyed land, ie, we will import all food requirements.
Everyone will be driving a Toyota Prius.

blah, blah, blah....................

All I can say is that he might be a comedian but the reality is either he can't add up, or he is taking some very hallucinatory substances.


----------



## Buckfont (20 January 2010)

*Re: Rudd the comedian*

The slow handclap with prince WILLY sums it all up. It is all so depressing. I wish my computer skills would allow me to up/download the clip to show those that haven`t seen it. And this bloke runs our country!!!


----------



## Happy (21 January 2010)

*Re: Rudd the comedian*

Big thanks to all those who believed that we need a change of Government.

(To me just one more snout in a trough with all the other living retired Prime Ministers, with all their indexed for live entitlements including: unlimited free air ticket, chauffer with Government car attached to him, secretary or more than one, maintained office, Gold Medicare plus more)


----------



## Mofra (21 January 2010)

*Re: Rudd the comedian*



Buddy said:


> We will get rid of all those landed gentry (National Party voters) who have destroyed land, ie, we will import all food requirements.



Not that you haven't summed things up well Buddy, but I really wanted to highlight this one. 
If Rudd or anyone can find a better environmental manager than your average farmer, please point them out. Farms are often inter-generational and if the land is not cared for effectively the farmers go broke!


----------



## gav (21 January 2010)

*Re: Rudd the comedian*

From the article posted at the start of this thread:

_"By 2050, there will be 2.7 working-age Australians for every one aged 65 or over, down from about five today.

The impact would be twofold, Mr Rudd said. It would cost more to meet the needs of ageing Australians requiring health services, aged care and age pensions, at the same time reducing tax revenues as the proportion of working Australians fell."_

Yet in the 2009 Federal Budget, the government cut the superannuation concessional contributions cap in half, starting the 2009-10 financial year.  From $50K to $25K for those under 50, and from $100k to $50k for those over 50.  And from July 2012, those over 50 will have their  concessional contributions cap halved again, to $25k.

Makes no sense at all.


----------



## trainspotter (22 January 2010)

*Re: Rudd the comedian*

While suturing a cut on the hand of a 75 year old farmer, who's hand was caught in the gate while working cattle, the doctor struck up a conversation with the old man.

Eventually the topic got around to the Prime Minister.

The old farmer said, 'Well, ya know, in my opinion, the Prime Minister is a 'Post Turtle''..

Not being familiar with the term, the doctor asked him, what a 'post turtle' was.

The old farmer said, 'When you're driving down a country road and you come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's a 'post turtle'.

The old farmer saw the puzzled look on the doctor's face so he continued to explain. 'You know he didn't get up there by himself, he doesn't belong up there, he doesn't know what to do while he's up there and you just wonder what kind of dumb buggar put him up there to begin with !!


----------



## Timmy (23 January 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

_The Australian_ newspaper has nominated  Mr. Rudd as its *Australian of the Year*

Mr Rudd's selection - as the person who had the most significant impact on the nation in the past 12 months - stands out because of the extraordinary challenges that confronted Australia last year and helped define his prime ministership.

More here:
WITH the exception of wartime prime minister John Curtin, few Australian leaders have faced a more daunting crisis in their first term of office than that which confronted Kevin Rudd.

Mr Rudd was barely a year into his job as prime minister when a collapse of confidence in US financial markets spread like a contagion across the globe in late 2008, plunging much of the world into recession. What happened next proved to be a defining moment, both for Australia and for its new leader, who had never before held an economic portfolio.

Rather than risk waiting for a clearer picture to emerge, Mr Rudd and his team saw the need for urgent and radical action to protect the economy, approving a series of unprecedented financial stimulus packages to taxpayers and giving sweeping guarantees to the nation's banks.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (23 January 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Timmy said:


> _The Australian_ newspaper has nominated  Mr. Rudd as its *Australian of the Year*
> 
> Mr Rudd's selection - as the person who had the most significant impact on the nation in the past 12 months - stands out because of the extraordinary challenges that confronted Australia last year and helped define his prime ministership.
> 
> ...




He deserves the accolade.

He had to make some line ball decisions at the start of the melt-down. I didn't agree with them.

He has been proven to be correct.

Australia is better positioned than most atm.

gg


----------



## Julia (23 January 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> He deserves the accolade.
> 
> He had to make some line ball decisions at the start of the melt-down. I didn't agree with them.
> 
> ...



Are you still going to be confident that he has been proven to be correct when taxes and charges are increased, and essential services cut, in order to claw back the deficit?


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (23 January 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> Are you still going to be confident that he has been proven to be correct when taxes and charges are increased, and essential services cut, in order to claw back the deficit?




Sorry, proven to be correct so far, I should have said.

And I still think he is a pigeon toed ,opportunistic, bullying, godbothering little geek Julia, so I haven't got the warms for him quite yet.

If he gets in for a second time he will screw the taxpayer to build up treasury stores again I would predict. 

gg


----------



## noco (23 January 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> Are you still going to be confident that he has been proven to be correct when taxes and charges are increased, and essential services cut, in order to claw back the deficit?




Yes Julia, we have not seen the worst of this toad yet. In an election year, I can't see how he can offer any sweetners to the tax payers. He might follow Swannie's recent comment, "work harder and be rewarded" and we'll tax you to the hilt. He has little choice as you say, but to cut essential services and increase taxes.

Hate to think how he will do it if he does get way with an ETS and CPRS!

How he will handle the double dip recession in 2011, which is predicted, I would hate to think. More stimulas and more debt.


----------



## Julia (23 January 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noco said:


> Hate to think how he will do it if he does get way with an ETS and CPRS!



Pretty hard to see how he would get an ETS through now.  The Libs won't be backing down - they'd lose their last shred of credibility.

The return to Parliament next month should be interesting.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (24 January 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> Pretty hard to see how he would get an ETS through now.  The Libs won't be backing down - they'd lose their last shred of credibility.
> 
> The return to Parliament next month should be interesting.




He'll probably hold an Inquiry, have a committee look at it, or call a summit in 2012.

Anything but make a decision.

Li'l Wong will do the biff on this one, Kev07 will stay low.

gg


----------



## Logique (24 January 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Can Sen Conroy's internet filtering proposals be added to the the agenda for that hypothetical debate. Who gets a say on what's filtered and what isn't.  Thin end of the wedge.

If they wanted to splash cash around in the name of economic stimulus, that's one thing, but where are the lasting national assets as a result. Dams, broadband networks, highway upgrades, hospitals and more doctors.  

The $900 'plasma tv' stimulus payments were a poorly targeted social injustice, and a frittering away of the hard-won national surplus. 

The comments about more taxes if this government is returned are right on the mark.


----------



## noco (24 January 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> Pretty hard to see how he would get an ETS through now.  The Libs won't be backing down - they'd lose their last shred of credibility.
> 
> The return to Parliament next month should be interesting.




Unfortunately Julia, I believe the Greens are watering down thier demands which may suit Labor. Both parties are currently in negotiations. It does not look good at all and could well be passed before the next election.


----------



## Julia (24 January 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noco said:


> Unfortunately Julia, I believe the Greens are watering down thier demands which may suit Labor. Both parties are currently in negotiations. It does not look good at all and could well be passed before the next election.



Unless I'm mistaken, they don't have the numbers to get it through the Senate.
Assuming Fielding, Xenophon and Scullion would vote with the Coalition, they have 39:  Labor plus Greens have 37.

Also, Rudd is nothing if not politically savvy.  He knows that with the total debacle that was Copenhagen, the public mood has shifted, and far fewer Australians are going to be in favour of the ETS.  Business has also hardened their stand, with excellent reason.


----------



## prozac (24 January 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Does Rudd inspire confidence? 

NO. ........Australia is a speed-bump along Kevin's way to somewhere else.


----------



## noco (24 January 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> Unless I'm mistaken, they don't have the numbers to get it through the Senate.
> Assuming Fielding, Xenophon and Scullion would vote with the Coalition, they have 39:  Labor plus Greens have 37.
> 
> Also, Rudd is nothing if not politically savvy.  He knows that with the total debacle that was Copenhagen, the public mood has shifted, and far fewer Australians are going to be in favour of the ETS.  Business has also hardened their stand, with excellent reason.




You could be right Julia, but didn't Xenophon go with Labor last time, which could make it even.

Hope he has changed his mind.


----------



## Aussiejeff (25 January 2010)

*Re: Rudd the comedian*

Apparently, Dick says he is NOT Amused...



> PLANS to massively boost Australia's population are a bad idea and must be stopped, entrepreneur Dick Smith says.
> 
> The Federal Government favours a "big Australia'' and wants to increase the country's headcount from 22 million to 35 million by 2050, largely by immigration.
> 
> ...



http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/br...ation-dick-smith/story-e6frf7jx-1225823061121

Kevy Baby might have to employ another script writer if his Comedy Show takes another Popularity Ratings Hit....


----------



## Duckman#72 (26 January 2010)

*Re: Rudd the comedian*

I am at a complete loss to explain "The Australian's" decision to make Kevin Rudd their Australian of the Year.  

Day in day out, they have been extremely critical of, (in no particular order),

*The lack of progress
*The expansion of spin
*The headstrong drive towards a ETS
*His desire to put himself on the world stage
*Poorly directed government spending
*Him being a "poor mans Obama" - all talk

As for his handling of the global financial crisis - the newspaper even suggests that he was very fortunate to have inherited such a large warchest and a strong economy in the first place.

Kevin Rudd can thank Wilson Tuckey, Brendan Nelson, Malcolm Turnbull and the crew for making his first year decisions so unaccountable and lacking in critical analysis.

Duckman


----------



## Purple XS2 (26 January 2010)

*Re: Rudd the comedian*

Slightly off-topic, but on the subject of an aging population who thereby needs millions of new citizens (either local-born or immigrant) to pay taxes in order for said aged component of population to live out their 80's, 90's and beyond in middle-class, well-provisioned and serviced comfort:

am I alone in thinking this idea is macabre?

Being on the cusp of old-fartdom myself, I see no reason to expect the younger generations to pay for the privilege of sharing the country with millions of doderers. The old have had their day, they should just quietly repose in the background.

As they get ill and die, well funny that. I thought that was pretty natural.
Presumably they're happy not to have died young, now they want to live forever?

As for Rudd, yeah, I'm over it. I used to think there was an intelligent mind there, but looks like I got that one wrong.


----------



## Julia (26 January 2010)

*Re: Rudd the comedian*



Duckman#72 said:


> I am at a complete loss to explain "The Australian's" decision to make Kevin Rudd their Australian of the Year.
> 
> Day in day out, they have been extremely critical of, (in no particular order),
> 
> ...



Duckman, I was taken aback too.  Then I rationalised it by considering they'd applied the same criteria as apparently "Time" does, i.e. the person who has had the most influence for that year.  I suppose we would have to concede this is Rudd, in whatever direction.
But then they followed it up by saying there was no doubt his decision to go for the huge stimulus has worked because Australia has avoided recession.
And that's when they lost me completely.  They made no reference whatsoever to the deficit that we now have to pay back.

Is it any coincidence that since back from holiday Mr Rudd has been going on about how much the ageing population is going to cost, it's going to be a taxation crisis etc etc?   Well, it's slightly unlikely he has just had this realisation!  Planning should have been well under way for this some time ago.
Rather, what he is doing is finding a reason to soften up the population for all the increased taxes and charges, plus cuts to essential services, that will now be necessary to claw back the deficit.





Purple XS2 said:


> Slightly off-topic, but on the subject of an aging population who thereby needs millions of new citizens (either local-born or immigrant) to pay taxes in order for said aged component of population to live out their 80's, 90's and beyond in middle-class, well-provisioned and serviced comfort:
> 
> am I alone in thinking this idea is macabre?
> 
> ...



Purple, I agree, but such a notion would be political suicide were it to be actually voiced by the government, or the opposition come to that.

There is an expectation amongst a section of the population that it's insulting to expect them to pay for themselves in old age, hell, didn't they pay their taxes etc etc, and a similar expectation that they should be the recipients of every last piece of medical technology in their dying days.

(With apologies for continuing to be a bit off topic) I recently read an absorbing book by Professor Ken Hillman, a specialist in intensive care who discussed the dilemma of this problem.  Book is called "Vital Signs" if you're interested.


----------



## prozac (26 January 2010)

*Re: Rudd the comedian*



trainspotter said:


> While suturing a cut on the hand of a 75 year old farmer, who's hand was caught in the gate while working cattle, the doctor struck up a conversation with the old man.
> 
> Eventually the topic got around to the Prime Minister.
> 
> ...




trainspotter, what an astute observation.


----------



## GumbyLearner (27 January 2010)

*Re: Rudd the comedian*

Great to see the apple doesn't fall that far from the tree.

*Prime minister's nephew Van Thanh Rudd in Ku Klux Klan protest flap at Australian Open*

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor..._ku_klux_klan_protest_flap_at_australian.html

If he was looking for attention, he sure got it - along with a possible $200 fine for inciting a riot.

Controversial artist - and nephew to the Prime Minister of Australia - Van Thanh Rudd made a statement about racism at the Australian Open this week by dressing up as a member of the KKK and carrying a sign that read: “No Racist Attacks on Indians."

According to Australia's Courier Mail, the protest was related to a slew of attacks against Indians in Australia.

"Australia is still an incredibly racist country and should not be celebrating but condemning racism," James Crafti told the Mail. 

*Looks like another trust-fund kiddie looking for attention.

My only advice to Van Rudd is get a job you BUM!*


----------



## Aussiejeff (4 February 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Lately I'm losing confidence that Herr KRudd can count past the number three. Why is it so?

Firstly, he has become obsessed with turning every media interview into a numbered point one-to-three-fest.

Secondly, his infuriating, repetitive & robotic use of peurile finger counting with (firstly) his thumb, (secondly) his forefinger & (thirdly) his middle finger in order to add *emphasis* with each of his chosen points numbered one to three.

Thirdly, his inability to remember much more than three points of argument.

So, to address this unwelcome development I believe - 

Firstly, he must get his good mate Swan-ee to teach him how to count to the number five. This would greatly increase his reportoire.

Secondly, use his extra two fingers for emphaticization of the (fourth) and (fifth) points during his daily social intercourse. This will help avert digital atrophization of the affected hand, and,

Thirdly, I..um... errr.... forgot...??


----------



## Atlas79 (4 February 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I know he's the treasurer of a place called STRAYA, wherever the hell that is, but do you have any evidence Swan can count to five?


----------



## moXJO (4 February 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Atlas79 said:


> I know he's the treasurer of a place called STRAYA, wherever the hell that is, but do you have any evidence Swan can count to five?




Of course he can count to five
Fact is he can count to twenty (so long as he removes shoes and socks)


----------



## moXJO (12 February 2010)

*Media turns on Rudd*

The Australian is pretty well known for lip to butt service on Rudd. But seems the Australian is changing its tune along with a few of the other media outlets.



> Last month, this newspaper was proud to name* Mr Rudd as its Australian of the Year for 2009*. We did so based on his success in navigating a way through the turbulence of the global financial crisis. He and his senior ministers deserve credit for ensuring the country did not fall into recession. But now it is obvious they could have done the job with far smaller outlays.*(yeah start to back peddle hard guys)* Now it is clear that a review is needed to ensure private effort is not crowded out by public sector projects aimed at short-term job creation rather than sustainable economic growth.



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/yes-prime-minister-it-is-about-the-policy/story-e6frg71x-1225829338024
So because someone else did all the investigating they now come up with this conclusion  Have jorno's really become that lazy?
And its funny how after Rudd was grilled and fried by a bunch of kids on Q&A, that the media now has started to turn against him. Are they embarrassed that for years they have been treating him with kid gloves and were shown up by the youth of the country?
I'd really like to know why Rudd has suddenly become on the nose.


----------



## Calliope (12 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



moXJO said:


> And its funny how after Rudd was grilled and fried by a bunch of kids on Q&A, that the media now has started to turn against him. Are they embarrassed that for years they have been treating him with kid gloves and were shown up by the youth of the country?




I think you have hit the nail on the head moXJO. It took a bunch of middle-class Canberra kids, who would mainly be the children of bureaucrats, to expose this imposter on the national stage. The demographic you would expect to identify with Rudd recognised him for the fool that he is, and played him for a sucker.

I nearly threw up when The Australian decided he was their man of the year. They now know which way the wind is blowing, and have changed tack.


----------



## Buckfont (12 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*

moXJO, our mate Mr. KRudd has always been on the nose.

It`s just that many have been walking around with face masks on the keep the swine flu at bay that and haven`t noticed till they removed them to get some real fresh air.


----------



## cornnfedd (12 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



Calliope said:


> I think you have hit the nail on the head moXJO. It took a bunch of middle-class Canberra kids, who would mainly be the children of bureaucrats, to expose this imposter on the national stage. The demographic you would expect to identify with Rudd recognised him for the fool that he is, and played him for a sucker.
> 
> I nearly threw up when The Australian decided he was their man of the year. They now know which way the wind is blowing, and have changed tack.





All Krudd did on Q&A was prove something a lot of people have been saying for a long time. He is an arrogant BULLY who will continue to blame the previous government or the GFC on any mistakes his governments make. What sort of prime minister would shout down a 16 year old girl and basically reduce her to tears just to PROVE A POINT.

What an arrogant prick. thats what i thought when i watched it anyay.


----------



## lasty (12 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*

Well thats it then. The media was his fuel in order for him to spin.
He has no other plan.Policies on the run with no real substance or logistics.

IMO, I think he has a disorder or perhaps a childhood scar (bullying perhaps)

If the media twists the knife further they will get their headline.
He has a short fuse and unfortunately they dont let the flame burn long enough for the explosion.

Its coming... Alan Jones is doing a fantastic job of keeping him in check and Im sure Rudd's blood boils everytime breakfast radio is on Monday to Friday.
At first I thought Jones was a bit harsh but now I agree with him.
What I cant understand is there are 60%+ who still like Rudd.
No wonder the Nigerian scam artists survive.


----------



## cornnfedd (12 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



lasty said:


> Well thats it then. The media was his fuel in order for him to spin.
> He has no other plan.Policies on the run with no real substance or logistics.
> 
> IMO, I think he has a disorder or perhaps a childhood scar (bullying perhaps)
> ...




according to the media there is 60% popularity - everyone I talk to hates the guy so I dont know who these 60% are!!

This one I like and have often thought the same.



lasty said:


> IMO, I think he has a disorder or perhaps a childhood scar (bullying perhaps)


----------



## Atlas79 (12 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*

Popcorn time!

Guess Rudd gets himself a cushy UN job when they swear in Prime Minister Gillard, eh? Didn't Keating get in this way too? What do the ALP have against letting people vote for the nation's PM? (And premiers come to mention it. Bligh snuck in through the back door too.)

And she has been all over the place by the way, major PR blitz, from Monthly magazine to that stupid 7pm show on Ch10. How impressive a minister with 3 major portfolios can find the time for all this 

Nice knowing ya Rudd. Or _was_ it??

Ps, I hope a journalist asks Ms Gillard whether or not she's still a Marxist, and if not, why not.


----------



## Happy (12 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*

Even if we change him.
Australia is country with most living *former *Prime Ministers.

Problem is that this doesn't come cheap:

For life indexed annual payment,
Secretary or two looking after office,
Chauffer and Government limo,
Gold Medicare (means: never ever have to open wallet to pay gaps or whatever),
Free air travel,
...

To name the few appreciation freebees *for doing such a great job for all of us*.


----------



## cornnfedd (12 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



Happy said:


> Even if we change him.
> Australia is country with most living *former *Prime Ministers.
> 
> Problem is that this doesn't come cheap:
> ...




I think most people would agree this is a small price to pay for a change of government!!!


----------



## So_Cynical (12 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*

:sleeping: Another week and yet another Rudd /  Labor bashing thread at ASF. :cuckoo:

What's with the right side of the political spectrum? what's with this need to rubbish and denigrate the centre left, mainstream? why the constant whining and dummy spitting? :dunno: i just don't get it?

Did anyone see Hockey on Lateline last nite? he was going really well attacking Garrett etc until he made the mistake of talking in depth about the GFC and domestic economy in general....he did the usual stop the stimulus rubbish and then followed with a list of factors that saved us going into recession.

Unfortunately number 2 or 3 on that list was the Chinese stimulus...and how it stimulated our export industry's...the interviewer was quick to point out how strange it was that the stimulus worked in china but not in Australia.  even Hockey had to smile.


----------



## cornnfedd (12 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*

Hockey couldnt get a word in!!


----------



## Happy (12 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



So_Cynical said:


> …
> Unfortunately number 2 or 3 on that list was the Chinese stimulus...and how it stimulated our export industry's...the interviewer was quick to point out how strange it was that the *stimulus worked in china *but not in Australia.  even Hockey had to smile.





Maybe because big chunk of our stimulus went to China for all the gadgets bought by mums and dads for $900 handout.


----------



## So_Cynical (12 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



Happy said:


> Maybe because big chunk of our stimulus went to China for all the gadgets bought by mums and dads for $900 handout.




And a chunk of it went into poker machines...so what

The goal was the immediate stimulation of the economy and the result was the immediate stimulation of the economy,  no one said it was gona be pretty.


----------



## moXJO (12 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



So_Cynical said:


> :sleeping: Another week and yet another Rudd /  Labor bashing thread at ASF. :cuckoo:
> 
> What's with the right side of the political spectrum? what's with this need to rubbish and denigrate the centre left, mainstream? why the constant whining and dummy spitting? :dunno: i just don't get it?




Damn lefty stinking up the thread with your labor loving and lib bashing:
This thread was actually about the media turning, Rudd bashing was just a bonus


----------



## OzWaveGuy (12 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*

Rudd and his party haven't stayed in front of the changing social dynamics since he was elected....

Rudd was elected at the top of a bull market (an all time high) when optimism is also at a peak. Social mood since starting in office has changed from one of extreme optimism to one of pessimism. Rudd's inaction on promises and ongoing push for bigger taxes (ETS) is a strategy heading for disaster. 

In a recession/depression when social mood has fallen, people tend to demand: concise and effective action, a government that can be trusted, tax breaks, support of the nations citizens and the family unit, to name a few.  

However, if for example, the bull market had continued for several years Rudd may have been successful with an ETS and his continued inaction over key policies, as the continued high optimism could have masked such undertakings (or lack of them).

If the downtrend continues (as I suspect it will) due to declining social mood, then I doubt Rudd can survive the political and social pressures cast upon him. Labor would do well to change leadership quickly under these circumstances.​


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (12 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



OzWaveGuy said:


> Rudd and his party haven't stayed in front of the changing social dynamics since he was elected....
> 
> Rudd was elected at the top of a bull market (an all time high) when optimism is also at a peak. Social mood since starting in office has changed from one of extreme optimism to one of pessimism. Rudd's inaction on promises and ongoing push for bigger taxes (ETS) is a strategy heading for disaster.
> 
> ...




Its being sorted mate.

NSW ALP Right are meeting as we blog.

Word is that Gillard will take over and promise to ensure major portfolios go to the Right.

gg


----------



## So_Cynical (13 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



OzWaveGuy said:


> Labor would do well to change leadership quickly under these circumstances.






Garpal Gumnut said:


> Word is that Gillard will take over and promise to ensure major portfolios go to the Right.




I just find it funny (strange) how approaching the top of the market 3  years ago there were no whinny Labor threads every week rubbishing little Johnny, Costello and Co....so what is it about the right wing of the political spectrum that makes them want to constantly whine and carry on about every single thing Labor does or doesn't do.

I must admit that at the time i didn't understand why little Johnny didn't just step aside for Costello...now of course its abundantly clear why the coalition self destructed, the right wing of the party decided it knew what was best and went willingly into opposition as a result.

So can one of you geniuses explain to me how the right wing of the coalition party/s, (you know the mob that made sure Costello never had the numbers) are going to miraculously appeal to the broad masses of the centre?

How are the architects of work choices going to distance themselves from there past? How do they sell a Govt funded greenhouse reduction plan that doesn't financially impact the biggest polluters? How do they sell themselves as a viable Govt with that idiot Bananby Petersen....or how do they get rid of him with out pissing off the Nationals?

Your mob simply don't have the answers...lol well they were asked the question and the answer they came up with was Abbott....3 More years of bliss coming up fellas...get used to it.


----------



## Tink (13 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



So_Cynical said:


> :sleeping: Another week and yet another Rudd /  Labor bashing thread at ASF. :cuckoo:






So_Cynical said:


> I just find it funny (strange) how approaching the top of the market 3  years ago there were no whinny Labor threads every week rubbishing little Johnny, Costello and Co..




LOL so true - and its the same people that were there 3 years ago, so whats going to be any different?

I think the public are sick of both parties at the moment


----------



## lasty (13 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



Tink said:


> LOL so true - and its the same people that were there 3 years ago, so whats going to be any different?
> 
> I think the public are sick of both parties at the moment



The reason why Rudd wants an ETS is that he feels it will mask the methane gas coming from all the BS he keeps emitting.


----------



## Frank D (13 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



So_Cynical said:


> so what is it about the right wing of the political spectrum that makes them want to constantly whine and carry on about every single thing Labor does or doesn't do?
> 
> 3 More years of bliss coming up fellas...get used to it.




That’s absolutely scary.

I’m good at forecasting and the way labor are going with their 
socialist endeavours, Barnaby  is probably right, and that the Labor party 
will not even go close to paying off any of the debt.

Taxes will rise, spending will continue to increase and the debt will grow.

Unions will gain more of a foothold resulting in more strikes and their 
demands for higher wages will hit productivity with a sledge hammer.

More companies will move offshore and government revenue will drop, 
and the debt will continue to grow. And on it goes.

Until this Labor government changes their pollices and begins to 
cut spending, drop taxes, and reduces the debt *they need to be thrown 
out at the next election. *

I have no confidence in this government, simply because I can see what
 they are doing, (not much), and I don’t believe in the spin.

It's bad, bad ,bad!!!!!!


----------



## jeffreysearch (13 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*

The only thing worst ! would be a Prime minister that sounds like `Cath & Kim   eg Gillard....  and her policies so far .


----------



## moXJO (13 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*

Work choices a step back Labor has enacted a system that has thrown us back to the 80s and is costing millions in lost tax and lost profit. Fair work is a joke that can not even provide answers let alone stop illegal activity by unions. Its a throw back to the bad old days. And there is a lot to complain about with labors shoddy policy on just about everything


----------



## satanoperca (13 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



Frank D said:


> That’s absolutely scary.
> 
> I’m good at forecasting and the way labor are going with their
> socialist endeavours, Barnaby  is probably right, and that the Labor party
> ...




This is the reality of the situation. Would have Libs done any better given the circumstances of the last two years, who knows and it doesn't matter, they weren't in power.

The blood is on Labors hands and no one elses.

They spent the savings in the bank, they then proceeded recklessly with a hug debt binge as a method of solving the problems with little understanding of the risks and consequences.

The debt must be paid pack, it will hurt.

It is not always beneficial for society to be wrapped in cotton wool, they build no resilience to big events world changing events which can no longer be sugar coated over by indebted govnuts.

Great time to be alive.

Cheers


----------



## lasty (13 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*

What would any other govt have done?
Well I don't think they would be handing out $900 cheques to dead people.
I'm not concerned about the debt. It's what it's been spent on.
Rudd seems like he has an unlimited credit card in one hand and fistful of E's in the other and went on a wild shopping spree.
Laptops, batts, school buildings and of course his handouts to dead people and overseas visitors.
Of course the ones who appeal the most to Rudd are the youth vote.
Isn't it a coincidence that they both have the same spending patterns, buying crap.


----------



## IFocus (13 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



Frank D said:


> That’s absolutely scary.
> 
> I’m good at forecasting and the way labor are going with their
> socialist endeavours, Barnaby  is probably right, and that the Labor party
> ...




What would be scary is maverick Barney telling treasury how to run the economy, Tony Abbott as prime minister who is not interested and Hocky super light weight as treasurer.

The fact no one has laid a glove on Swan is testament to how this Liberal front bench is the weakest ever on things economic.



> LOL so true - and its the same people that were there 3 years ago, so whats going to be any different?
> 
> I think the public are sick of both parties at the moment




:iagree:


----------



## pilots (13 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



lasty said:


> What would any other govt have done?
> Well I don't think they would be handing out $900 cheques to dead people.
> I'm not concerned about the debt. It's what it's been spent on.
> Rudd seems like he has an unlimited credit card in one hand and fistful of E's in the other and went on a wild shopping spree.
> ...




The Youth vote, I think by now he will have found out after his little run in with the youths in the old Parliament house that he has lost that vote as well. What I am worried about is how much he will spend on buying votes come next election, God help the next lot that will have to clean up this mess.


----------



## Calliope (13 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*

In 2006, referring to Howard and Downer, Rudd said;



> How can Australia have a prime minister and a foreign minister who regard lying as the way in which you conduct the business of government?




He must have known at the time that he was disqualifying himself from the job of PM. Unless, of course he believes his own lies. That would brand him as a _pathological liar_.


----------



## Julia (13 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



OzWaveGuy said:


> Rudd and his party haven't stayed in front of the changing social dynamics since he was elected....
> 
> Rudd was elected at the top of a bull market (an all time high) when optimism is also at a peak. Social mood since starting in office has changed from one of extreme optimism to one of pessimism. Rudd's inaction on promises and ongoing push for bigger taxes (ETS) is a strategy heading for disaster.
> 
> ...




Insightful and realistic post, Ozwave.
It's good to see an actual analysis of the political situation instead of just the usual partisan party bashing of both sides.


----------



## Duckman#72 (14 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



So_Cynical said:


> I just find it funny (strange) how approaching the top of the market 3  years ago there were no whinny Labor threads every week rubbishing little Johnny, Costello and Co....so what is it about the right wing of the political spectrum that makes them want to constantly whine and carry on about every single thing Labor does or doesn't do.




Tink and So_Cynical, as someone that has been a member here since 2005, I can assure you that there were PLENTY of threads and posts smashing Johnny and Costello!! 

Typical Labour stunt - trying to re-write history!!!:

Duckman


----------



## Calliope (22 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*

*How Rudd the Dudd Dropped Australia in the Alphabet Soup *

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...ralia-in-the-alphabet-soup-20100221-ontz.html


----------



## sam76 (22 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



Calliope said:


> *How Rudd the Dudd Dropped Australia in the Alphabet Soup *
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...ralia-in-the-alphabet-soup-20100221-ontz.html




i feel sick after reading that.


----------



## Trembling Hand (22 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



sam76 said:


> i feel sick after reading that.




Yeah? have a read of this and you will want to get a light plane and fly it into a building, 

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/yes-minister-meets-alice-in-wonderland-20100220-omsa.html



> The next time I spend eight hours waiting in emergency, I will be thinking of unused speeches, cancelled events and weeks of wasted organisation and research. I will be thinking of expensive television advertising campaigns and T-shirts and golf balls with little slogans. I will be thinking of websites and a consultation process driven by photography. I will be thinking of ''training''.


----------



## noco (22 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



sam76 said:


> i feel sick after reading that.




Yeah, ME TOO, Sam. 

The problem is the little T*#d is still getting away with it. According to the polls, he could still win the next election. But who knows he might be replaced by Gillard before then, and perhaps that might be worse.

But this is typical of the Labor Party, when a leader starts to get on the nose, they change the leader on the pretext of new blood to give a better image and the naive fall for it hook, line and sinker. Look what has happened in all the states over the past years. The longer they serve, the bigger the mess.

Lets hope Abbott gives them what they deserve.


----------



## GumbyLearner (22 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



Trembling Hand said:


> Yeah? have a read of this and you will want to get a light plane and fly it into a building,
> 
> http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/yes-minister-meets-alice-in-wonderland-20100220-omsa.html




Those guys/gals in the ALP couldn't spot talent if it was staring them in the face. LOL

What a great read.

If Gillard does eventually topple Rudd, I'm going long SGH. ROTFLMAO


----------



## GumbyLearner (23 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



GumbyLearner said:


> Those guys/gals in the ALP couldn't spot talent if it was staring them in the face. LOL
> 
> What a great read.
> 
> If Gillard does eventually topple Rudd, I'm going long SGH. ROTFLMAO




Wouldn't it be great to hear about a class-action suit based on solar-panels or dodgy-insulation from one of the best class-action firms in Australia? 

As Mr.Kerrigan from The Castle would say "You're dreamin'."  LOL


----------



## moXJO (23 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*

Noticed Rudd was on Good News Week Let the popularity contest begin.


----------



## Julia (23 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*

What was he like on GN Week, MoXJO?


----------



## prozac (23 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*

Well I don't know what you are all whingeing about. You all voted him in.


----------



## moXJO (23 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



Julia said:


> What was he like on GN Week, MoXJO?




Likeable...:sleeping: He came across as fairly relaxed, waffled on a bit (did not watch much of the show). GNW quickly shoved their nose up his behind though. I think the danger of this is the general public base decisions off these kinds of shows and not how he runs the country. The fact he avoids any serious questioning from the media, should be a bit of a give away that something ain't right though.


----------



## noco (25 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*

I had to bang my head against the wall tonight to make sure I was not hearing things when Kerrie O'Brien grilled Kevin Rudd over the Home Insulation Debacle. Rudd was on the back foot during the whole interview. I would like to have been a fly on the wall after that interview as O'Brien probably got an ear full of wax from Rudd.

Will be interesting to watch INSIDERS on Sunday with the interview between Cassidy and Rudd. Let's hope Cassidy walks in O'Brien's shoes.


----------



## Atlas79 (25 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*

HOLY smokes watch this! Rudd gets eviscerated by Kerry O'Brien of all people:

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/

Rudd is just nowhere near as slippery as Howard was...

He comes of really, really badly here. Claiming to accept responsibility while naming other people / departments to blame... trying to hide behind bureau-babble & cliche, "step up to the plate" said about 5 times... ugh.


----------



## GumbyLearner (25 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



Atlas79 said:


> HOLY smokes watch this! Rudd gets eviscerated by Kerry O'Brien of all people:
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/
> 
> BRUTAL!




Total pasting. 

The ALP used to be the party for battlers.

This is a real shambles. 

And by the way prozac, I didn't vote for him.


----------



## Julia (25 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



noco said:


> I had to bang my head against the wall tonight to make sure I was not hearing things when Kerrie O'Brien grilled Kevin Rudd over the Home Insulation Debacle. Rudd was on the back foot during the whole interview. I would like to have been a fly on the wall after that interview as O'Brien probably got an ear full of wax from Rudd.
> 
> Will be interesting to watch INSIDERS on Sunday with the interview between Cassidy and Rudd. Let's hope Cassidy walks in O'Brien's shoes.



More comments on the Insulation Debacle thread indicate many of us were likewise astonished at Mr O'Brien finally acting like an impartial interviewer, Noco.

So Mr Rudd will be appearing on "The Insiders" this coming Sunday?  That will be a first.  He must indeed be desperate to improve the government's tarnished image.
I've never found Barrie Cassidy to be a particularly incisive interviewer, but perhaps he will be up to the task on this occasion.

I may not be able to watch, though, if he continues saying stuff like "step up to the plate", "the buck stops with me", "as PM I take full responsibility", and most hated of all "You know something?........."
Jeez, I hate all those.  Why doesn't someone tell him to find some new expressions?


----------



## Mr J (25 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*

It's his attitude, not his words, that rub me the wrong way.


----------



## dutchie (25 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



Julia said:


> Why doesn't someone tell him to find some new expressions?




What about "working families should step up to the plate"


----------



## Buckfont (25 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*

Yes Julia, twas like on Kerry`s show tonight that he went through the `firstly may I say`, then the `secondly may I say`, through the third `may I say` only to say ` may I further add to this `. Good grief it`s no wonder we cry into our red wine or lemonade and feel let down and conned.:alcohol


----------



## bellenuit (25 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*

Kerry missed an opportunity at the end when after several attempts to get Rudd to say what went wrong, Rudd said that they didn't ask enough questions. O'Brien should have nailed him on that. They didn't need to ask more questions. They had all the answers the needed in front of them; the Minter Ellison report, the call link up with the states, etc. Asking enough questions wasn't the issue, it was ignoring the answers they already had.


----------



## jaydebono (26 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*

The bit that urks me about it is the way he has to keep saying "Well, plainly" and "plainly Kerry"

Why does he have to say plainly all the time? Is it so when he goes off into one of his tangeants we will all feel stupid because he has used the word plainly so he must be speaking very plainly for all the morons watching, but they have NFI what he's saying because he speaks in circles?

Krudds on his way out.... i HOPE!


----------



## Atlas79 (26 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*

Rudd is what they call "Cargo Cult". So called after island tribes who watched US planes drop cargo onto their island for the army base stationed there. The tribes mimicked the radio equipment and runways, with coconut shells & fronds, thinking that the gods would drop more goods from the sky.

Rudd is not a person of merit. He did not rise in a system of merit to a position of merit. It is why he is in government like so many others like him, and not the CEO of a company. He is not a producer in the system but a parasite of it. He got where he is by doing just what he does in the interview: vague weasel words which mean nothing, but which most people don't REALIZE mean nothing. Up till lately, it has been enough. Rudd is just one of a hundred thousand Rudds all through the government. It is probably unsual that one so typical as him, and so lacking in personal charisma got to where he is (unlike say Keating who looked different but of course was just another Rudd inside.)

The other tools Rudd has, bullying and manipulating behind closed doors, won't achieve the impossible for him either.

Now that results are required, he is doing what he has always done and is probably amazed it isn't working. He is blathering and blathering and shuffling papers in imitation of someone competently managing, and probably believing that this IS competently managing (banging coconut shells together like the US servicemen did with their fancy radios the natives didn't understand. Why do no goods fall from the sky? thinks Rudd. CARGO CULT.)


----------



## c-unit (26 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*

Did anyone else nearly vomit when they saw the footage of Rudd standing around the insulation workers with his sleeves rolled up and little notepad out, scribbling notes as the insulators shared their hard luck stories?

This is the problem when you create artificial demand for something - it will eventually fall over. More reason that governments should just leave markets alone. Not only has Kevin wasted ridiculous amounts of tax payer funds on this scheme, but he has royally screwed legitimate, long time running insulation businesses whose work has dried up thanks to Kevin destroying Australia's insulation market. As Atlas79 said on another thread, the smaller the government the better. Plenty of committies, reviews and audits, but nothing ever gets done. And when something does actually get done, it inevitably makes things worse.


----------



## GumbyLearner (26 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



c-unit said:


> Did anyone else nearly vomit when they saw the footage of Rudd standing around the insulation workers with his sleeves rolled up and little notepad out, scribbling notes as the insulators shared their hard luck stories?
> 
> This is the problem when you create artificial demand for something - it will eventually fall over. More reason that governments should just leave markets alone. Not only has Kevin wasted ridiculous amounts of tax payer funds on this scheme, but he has royally screwed legitimate, long time running insulation businesses whose work has dried up thanks to Kevin destroying Australia's insulation market. As Atlas79 said on another thread, the smaller the government the better. Plenty of committies, reviews and audits, but nothing ever gets done. And when something does actually get done, it inevitably makes things worse.




He never had organizing works on his resume!

No surprise here!


----------



## GumbyLearner (26 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



Julia said:


> More comments on the Insulation Debacle thread indicate many of us were likewise astonished at Mr O'Brien finally acting like an impartial interviewer, Noco.
> 
> So Mr Rudd will be appearing on "The Insiders" this coming Sunday?  That will be a first.  He must indeed be desperate to improve the government's tarnished image.
> I've never found Barrie Cassidy to be a particularly incisive interviewer, but perhaps he will be up to the task on this occasion.
> ...




Aha Julia. You've got it the cliche soundbites will make up for it all.


----------



## Calliope (26 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*

Rudd said last night;  "I accept full responsibility".

He also said re the batt ballsup;

"It failed the high standards I set for the government".

i.e Rudd admits he is a failure.

QED


----------



## wayneL (26 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



c-unit said:


> Did anyone else nearly vomit when they saw the footage of Rudd.




YES!

The above excerpt is all that is necessary.


----------



## Happy (26 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



Calliope said:


> Rudd said last night;  "I accept full responsibility".
> 
> He also said re the batt ballsup;
> 
> ...





Why there are no consequences yet regarding hospitals and now insulation?

Wander if somebody from families of killed workers will venture out to take Mr Rudd to court later when he has no immunity? 
Wander if there is enough to make the case?


----------



## nioka (26 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*

Nobody is perfect, although one could get the impression that some who post here think they are. Rudd is getting the blame for the odd thing going wrong, usually through bureaucratic bungling, but getting no credit for the things that are going right. The main thing going right is the general wellbeing of our economy compared to all others.

 I think that those that got shonky work can, in the main, blame themselves for not choosing one of the many good operators.  I shopped around for quotes along with checking out those quoting. We should stop looking for "someone else" to blame every time WE stuff up.


----------



## drsmith (26 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



nioka said:


> I think that those that got shonky work can, in the main, blame themselves for not choosing one of the many good operators.  I shopped around for quotes along with checking out those quoting. We should stop looking for "someone else" to blame every time WE stuff up.



That though in isolation ignores the responsibility of government to set up a scheme where shonky operators don't flourish.

As for our economic wellbeing we should be doing OK when money is being thrown around like there is no tomorrow. It will be interesting to see how long it lasts.


----------



## Calliope (26 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



nioka said:


> Nobody is perfect, although one could get the impression that some who post here think they are. Rudd is getting the blame for the odd thing going wrong, usually through bureaucratic bungling, but getting no credit for the things that are going right.




*"The odd thing going wrong"*


----------



## c-unit (26 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



nioka said:


> Nobody is perfect, although one could get the impression that some who post here think they are. Rudd is getting the blame for the odd thing going wrong, usually through bureaucratic bungling, but getting no credit for the things that are going right. The main thing going right is the general wellbeing of our economy compared to all others.
> 
> I think that those that got shonky work can, in the main, blame themselves for not choosing one of the many good operators.  I shopped around for quotes along with checking out those quoting. We should stop looking for "someone else" to blame every time WE stuff up.




But the general wellbeing of our economy is not due to Rudd - we can thank China for that. Every aspect of his stimulus package (which blind freddy knows wasn't needed here) was bungled up. Insulation, unnecessary school halls, wasted cash bribes (majority spent on imports), you name it! 

We didn't need stimulus like the other Western nations because of our leverage to China (as we, unlike most other Western economies, still have some form of productive base, albeit a minimal one). Thanks to the panicking of Rudd, Swan & Co, all they have done is built up 20 years of debt in a wild 12 month spending spree. This is a real concern. I shouldn't have to pay for their incompetence.


----------



## drsmith (26 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



Calliope said:


> *"The odd thing going wrong"*



It has rained over eastern Australia.


----------



## Duckman#72 (26 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



nioka said:


> The main thing going right is the general wellbeing of our economy compared to all others.




This is the perception that Labor is trumpeting. "Look at us, look at us". Once again it took a teenager on Q&A to silence Lindsay Tanner on this issue. He was boasting of Australia's financial standing compared against the rest of the Western World leading to how well Labor has handled the crisis.

The question/comment from the audience: "Mr Tanner, Australia was best placed financially before the GFC - you have done nothing but maintain that position. It would be a bigger story if Australia WASN'T well placed compared to others". 

Swan would do well to remember that also.

Duckman


----------



## Happy (26 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



nioka said:


> Nobody is perfect, although one could get the impression that some who post here think they are. Rudd is getting the blame for the odd thing going wrong, usually through bureaucratic bungling, but getting no credit for the things that are going right. The main thing going right is the general wellbeing of our economy compared to all others.
> …





Problem is we took a lot of CREDIT to buy ourselves this technically No Recession Status.

But the biggest problem is a lot of that money got wasted, but all of it has to be paid back plus interest.


----------



## Julia (26 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



c-unit said:


> But the general wellbeing of our economy is not due to Rudd - we can thank China for that. Every aspect of his stimulus package (which blind freddy knows wasn't needed here) was bungled up. Insulation, unnecessary school halls, wasted cash bribes (majority spent on imports), you name it!
> 
> We didn't need stimulus like the other Western nations because of our leverage to China (as we, unlike most other Western economies, still have some form of productive base, albeit a minimal one). Thanks to the panicking of Rudd, Swan & Co, all they have done is built up 20 years of debt in a wild 12 month spending spree. This is a real concern. I shouldn't have to pay for their incompetence.



I agree entirely.
It's a further irritation that whenever the government are puffing out their hairy chests in pride about how they saved us from economic annihilation, they don't even give a mention to the Reserve Bank's action in rapidly reducing interest rates.

After wasting all that money on handouts just to stimulate a brief period of retail spending, we will into the future have to live with cutting of essential services as they attempt to bring the accounts back to surplus.

And now more tens of millions of our tax dollars will be spent to reduce the anger (completely justified) of the established insulation firms who will be going out of business unless the government props them up.


----------



## c-unit (26 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



Julia said:


> I agree entirely.
> It's a further irritation that whenever the government are puffing out their hairy chests in pride about how they saved us from economic annihilation, they don't even give a mention to the Reserve Bank's action in rapidly reducing interest rates.
> 
> After wasting all that money on handouts just to stimulate a brief period of retail spending, we will into the future have to live with cutting of essential services as they attempt to bring the accounts back to surplus.
> ...




Completely true. Check this out Julia:

http://barnabyisright.wordpress.com/2010/02/26/no-we-cannot-pay-our-debt/

That chart is a serious worry. There's no way we can get out of this debt! I hope that graph there is pasted all over the newspapers prior to the election.


----------



## drsmith (26 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*

A chart can be presented to show what you want it to show.

For example a more realistic view of the Budget surplus/deficits chart would be as a proportion of GDP and over a longer time period.


----------



## specialed (26 February 2010)

*Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*

Does anyone else feel that Kevin07 is doing a great job of degrading the position of Prime Minister...

I mean, who really wants to see Leader of their country on a game show, on a breakfast show each week or for that matter outside of Parliament with a bloody notepad.....

How embarrassing !!


----------



## bunyip (26 February 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*



specialed said:


> Does anyone else feel that Kevin07 is doing a great job of degrading the position of Prime Minister...
> 
> I mean, who really wants to see Leader of their country on a game show, on a breakfast show each week or for that matter outside of Parliament with a bloody notepad.....
> 
> How embarrassing !!




At last I agree with you about something!


----------



## jetblack (27 February 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*



specialed said:


> Does anyone else feel that Kevin07 is doing a great job of degrading the position of Prime Minister...
> 
> I mean, who really wants to see Leader of their country on a game show, on a breakfast show each week or for that matter outside of Parliament with a bloody notepad.....
> 
> How embarrassing !!




Nothing wrong with the notepad, you jot down ideas and doodles for the next
wacky adventures of dog Jasper and cat Abbey.


Should be a good read.

I also think the cases on Deal or No Deal should be insullated.


----------



## All a load of .. (27 February 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*



specialed said:


> Does anyone else feel that Kevin07 is doing a great job of degrading the position of Prime Minister...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## specialed (27 February 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*

In the end all washing machines have drama's with their spin cycle. The speed at which this government produces spin I can only hope they suffer a catastrophic mechanical failure and all that will be left will be a lot of drips.....


----------



## Smurf1976 (27 February 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*



specialed said:


> In the end all washing machines have drama's with their spin cycle. The speed at which this government produces spin I can only hope they suffer a catastrophic mechanical failure and all that will be left will be a lot of drips.....



Rudd's washing machine could do with a firm tap on the control knob. It seems to be permanently stuck on "spin" and hasn't managed to actually wash anything yet. All the dirt's still there, it's just that many can't see it due to the constant spinning. 

At some future date the plug will be pulled and the spinning will stop. Then the mess will be clearly visible for all to see.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (27 February 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*



> Those whom the gods wish to destroy they first make mad.




He really is becoming an embarrassment.

I have a mad aunt Gertie in the High Country who started off like this. She is still a godbotherer, but useless for anything else. She embarrasses everyone in the family. 

gg


----------



## drsmith (27 February 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*



Smurf1976 said:


> Rudd's washing machine could do with a firm tap on the control knob. It seems to be permanently stuck on "spin" and hasn't managed to actually wash anything yet. All the dirt's still there, it's just that many can't see it due to the constant spinning.
> 
> At some future date the plug will be pulled and the spinning will stop. Then the mess will be clearly visible for all to see.



The load is becoming increasingly unbalanced and the banging louder.


----------



## Purple XS2 (27 February 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*



specialed said:


> Does anyone else feel that Kevin07 is doing a great job of degrading the position of Prime Minister...




Maybe, but degrading from what standard? His immediate predecessor? (I would beg to disagree with that conclusion). Or some other higher better standard in the past, or theoretical?



> I mean, who really wants to see Leader of their country on a game show, on a breakfast show each week or for that matter outside of Parliament with a bloody notepad.....




That's the worst that can be said of him?



> How embarrassing !!




Politicians are frequently an embarrassment. A slight defect with parliamentary democracy perhaps, but it's still the least worst system yet devised by civilization.

P.


----------



## growing (27 February 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*

Maybe the next civilisation will do a better job ? - lol


----------



## noco (27 February 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*



specialed said:


> In the end all washing machines have drama's with their spin cycle. The speed at which this government produces spin I can only hope they suffer a catastrophic mechanical failure and all that will be left will be a lot of drips.....




Rudd is about to have a power surge on his washing machine which will blow up the mother board and the the machine will come to a sudden halt.

Rudd is so desperate to pick up his ratings, his spin machine is working overtime.

He'll soon need a new machine to wash his khaki underpants.


----------



## dutchie (27 February 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*

Will be interesting to see how he goes tomorrow on the "Insiders" (ABC)


----------



## specialed (27 February 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*



Purple XS2 said:


> That's the worst that can be said of him?
> 
> 
> P.




That three from the past 7 days.....Im sure the list for the last 12 months will be somewhat larger.....


----------



## Smurf1976 (27 February 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*



Purple XS2 said:


> Maybe, but degrading from what standard? His immediate predecessor? (I would beg to disagree with that conclusion). Or some other higher better standard in the past, or theoretical?



Prior to Howard's election as PM, one of the often repeated arguments was that Howard "would be a Prime Minister we can respect", a reference to the antics of former PM Paul Keating. I'm no fan of Howard, but I'd argue that he certainly didn't cause the level of embarassment that Keating did. 

In Keating's defence however, I've little doubt that he is _very_ smart in an intellectual sense and is very much a forward thinker who "gets it", but he also fits that stereotype in terms of lacking some other skills.


----------



## Happy (27 February 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*

It is simply frustrating that system creates monsters.
Our re-election sometimes is the only drive for politicians.

Promisses are cheap and memories short.

Also different groups of socio-economic status will focus on not necessarily best candidate.

From time to time I wander should we be better off with honest dictator, who above all would concentrate on what is best for our Country, not on popularity contest to scrape through the next election.


----------



## prawn_86 (27 February 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*



Happy said:


> From time to time I wander should we be better off with honest dictator, who above all would concentrate on what is best for our Country, not on popularity contest to scrape through the next election.




Yeh its a bit of a raffle, but im still a fan of (in theory) a monarchy/dictatorship providing the king/leader has the countries best interestes at heart. Of course power corrupts etc, so it would never work for extended periods, but at least having one person in charge would mean things get done quicker and are in the countries interest, not the politicians interest of being re-elected.  There would be no gov 'fat', pensions, travel expenses, committees etc etc etc

I guess the other way it could be dne is to simply pay pollies at a wage that the 'average' CEO or upper management gets and then when they are out thats it, no pensions or perks. This would then cause them to strive for longevity


----------



## drsmith (27 February 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*

Honest dictator ??

Power corrupts. Absolute power...........

Perhaps politics is increasingly becoming about reducing leadership to dictatorship as much as possible. More and more it seems to be about the leader and less about the party as a whole.

Are we be seeing the slow decline of democracy into something much less ?


----------



## Calliope (27 February 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*

I'm afraid that at present in Canberra we have very bad amalgam of bureaucrats and former union leaders running the administration, and relying on an army of highly paid academic advisers for guidance. None of these groups have had any experience in running an efficient business.

They are not only degrading the office of PM, they are degrading the country.

I refer you again to the ABC of Rudd's degradation of his office. 

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...ralia-in-the-alphabet-soup-20100221-ontz.html


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (28 February 2010)

*Rudd A Dead Parrot*

I am watching Rudd on Insiders this morning.

He looks rattled, will not answer a question directly (as ever) and even has Barrie Cassidy a left wing commentator unable to save him from himself.

He's doing a comprehensive "Peter Beattie" impersonation, but not as convincingly.

Julia, Greg, John, Joe, Stephen Major, Stephen Minor, and Mar'n will be doing the numbers today and in to the coming weeks.

Rudd is gorne.

gg


----------



## noco (28 February 2010)

*Re: Rudd A Dead Parrot*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> I am watching Rudd on Insiders this morning.
> 
> He looks rattled, will not answer a question directly (as ever) and even has Barrie Cassidy a left wing commentator unable to save him from himself.
> 
> ...




Just watched Rudd on Insiders.

Barrie Cassidy as predicted, SOFTLY-SOFTLY-SOFTLY.

Give Cassidy 1 out 0f 10 against Red Kerrie 10 out of 10 on the 7.30 report.

Rudd did look a little rattled in his impersiation of Peter Beattie. He has a lot of catching up to do to match our dear old Pete.


----------



## Mr J (28 February 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*



Happy said:


> From time to time I wander should we be better off with honest dictator, who above all would concentrate on what is best for our Country, not on popularity contest to scrape through the next election.




Yes, but wouldn't trust anyone other than myself to do it. I used to believe a direct democracy would be a good idea, but soon realised people are nowhere near informed enough to be making important decisions, and will just vote with bias and emotion anyway. Politicians aren't really any better, but at least they can be bribed.


----------



## So_Cynical (28 February 2010)

*Re: Rudd A Dead Parrot*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> Rudd is gorne.
> 
> gg




 Another week and yet another Rudd/Garrett/Gillard/Labor bashing exercise....GG your nothing if not entirely predictable with your right wing views and contempt of all things labor.

I've just have a run around all the betting sites trying to find a market for 'Labor leader at next election' but i cant find one :dunno: strange thing is there's no problem finding markets for 'Coalition leader at next election' its almost like the betting agency's have decided Rudd's leadership is a no brainer so cannot be bothered to take bets on a non event.

Abbott's at about $1.70 so looking pretty safe there....as for betting on the election, even with the good 2 weeks the coalition has had, nothing much has changed, the coalition has improved there overall position by 2.9% according to this crikey politics blog.

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2010/02/26/betting-market-friday-4/

The 5 online betting agency's taking bets on the election all have the ALP at about $1.28 and the LNP $3.80, now for those amongst us that are super conservative and don't have a good understanding of gambling ill put this in terms they can easily understand.

The Liberal national party coalition has no chance in hell of winning this election...there Gorne 







EDIT/ and good to see the MODs are doing there job and merging threads like these...WD


----------



## AngusSmart (28 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*

its like that south park episode..

you have to choose between a turd and a douche..

we're ****ed for choice here


----------



## IFocus (28 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



Duckman#72 said:


> This is the perception that Labor is trumpeting. "Look at us, look at us". Once again it took a teenager on Q&A to silence Lindsay Tanner on this issue. He was boasting of Australia's financial standing compared against the rest of the Western World leading to how well Labor has handled the crisis.
> 
> The question/comment from the audience: "Mr Tanner, Australia was best placed financially before the GFC - you have done nothing but maintain that position. It would be a bigger story if Australia WASN'T well placed compared to others".
> 
> ...




Just read the above

The fact is we were very, very, lucky.

Lucky that the rise of commodity boom times fed back into our economy remember the libs were in power during a massive expansion of gov income.

Lucky that Howard didn't win the election with his over the top ambitious spending plans.

Lucky we had a new Labor government that went with Treasury head Ken Henry and acted aggressively ahead of the curve unlike US,UK and Europe.

Lucky that our banks rip us off on the fees they charge and make embarrassingly large amounts of profit so didn't need to get over exposed to derivatives. This is the really big one.

Lucky housing prices remained up under pinned by gov 1st home buyers so under pinning banks cap levels. 

I could go on and on but the GFC was a contagion and people have remarkably short memory's

Oh and the fat lady still hasn't sung yet now that sovereign risk is in play and Australia cannot afford a dim wit like Barnaby running finance and a shadow treasurer that can only say glib one liners.


----------



## Mr J (28 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



> Lucky that Howard didn't win the election with his over the top ambitious spending plans.




Yes, instead we were graced with Mr Rudd's spending spree.


----------



## Mr J (28 February 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*



			
				So_Cynical said:
			
		

> The Liberal national party coalition has no chance in hell of winning this election




Of course they do. Even if we assume those estimates are accurate, which I doubt they are, they have a 25% chance of winning. Thinking it is no chance in hell is something I'd expect from a footy commentator.

Assuming prices in betting shops reflect true probabilities is as flawed as assuming it in the financial markets.


----------



## So_Cynical (28 February 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*



Mr J said:


> Of course they do. Even if we assume those estimates are accurate, which I doubt they are, they have a 25% chance of winning. Thinking it is no chance in hell is something I'd expect from a footy commentator.
> 
> Assuming prices in betting shops reflect true probabilities is as flawed as assuming it in the financial markets.




Of course your right...same as any horse can win the Melb cup etc  but in reality that's a crock, when it comes to gambling there's smart money and muggs money, the LNP has no chance in hell...the odds reflect a black swan type event as the only real chance the LNP has of winning.


----------



## IFocus (28 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



Mr J said:


> Yes, instead we were graced with Mr Rudd's spending spree.





Lucky we had a new Labor government that went with Treasury head Ken Henry and acted aggressively ahead of the curve unlike US,UK and Europe.


----------



## basilio (28 February 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*

I'm getting a bit fed up with Rudd bashing in this forum.

"Rudd degrading the office of PM" What unspeakable act, gross studipity, corruption or whatever justifies such a statement . ([I Of course I'm sure one of our resident rudd bashers can find some excuse to warrant the slur.[/I])

I think Kevin Rudd can be fairly criticized and if he doesn't have a good rethink about how effective the public service needs to be he deserves to get a boot up the bum. I suspect it might come from his own side however.

But when I think of people who "degrade the office of PM" I keep remembering  Howard deliberately vilifying  boat people( "Children overboard") to split the Labour party and fire up some good old fashioned hate and fear politics.

I remember the decision to support the war in Iraq when there was plenty of evidence that it was totally dishonest ie there were no weapons of mass destruction, Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11.

I suggest Rudd has a long way to go before he reaches those levels of duplicity. 

Can we tone down the hate mail ?


----------



## IFocus (28 February 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*



basilio said:


> I'm getting a bit fed up with Rudd bashing in this forum.
> 
> "Rudd degrading the office of PM" What unspeakable act, gross studipity, corruption or whatever justifies such a statement . ([I Of course I'm sure one of our resident rudd bashers can find some excuse to warrant the slur.[/I])
> 
> ...




Enough of bashing the lying little rodent......

How about Malcolm losing his pants in the US


----------



## Datsun Disguise (28 February 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*

I was quite shocked by Rudd's perfromance today, even in the face of stuff ups like the ETS, insulation, green loans, school halls et al, you still expect these guys to be able to put up a confident response - I was waiting for him to burst into tears. That would have made me squirm no doubt. 

Was this all about trying to impersonate Pete b because every one liked him and he could own up to stuff and seem honest? 

If this was Rudd being 'honest' then it was a suit that certainly didn't fit him well. I found some of his comments incredible. Top of the list was something like 'Gee whiz, this governemnt stuff (I'm sure there was a 'business of' in there somewhere) is a bit harder than we thought' This commetn made in trying to explain the undelivered promises and poorly executed schemes.

A change of labor leadership hadn't even crossed my mind until this mornings show, but I think I agree with GG - come Monday we might just see a book open on the leadership at the next election. Still think he'll be there, but the rank and file won't be happy with what they saw this morning.

Finally - to those who think that negative threads on encumbent governments are just a bunch of whingers carrying on, it's more about scutiny and holding our leadership to high standards. If we don't then what??


----------



## bunyip (28 February 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*



basilio said:


> I'm getting a bit fed up with Rudd bashing in this forum.




I think Rudd deserves every bit of the bashing he gets from this forum, and from various other sources. In fact he's even resorted to bashing himself by admitting tonight on TV that his performance as PM and the performance of his government haven't been up to scratch, and _'we're getting a good whacking, and we deserve it'. _(his words, not mine).

The Peter Garrett debacle has been a joke. Typical ALP - just like they did when they took poor old Cheryl Kernot into the fold, they selected Peter Garrett on the basis of his high profile, irrespective of his lack of political experience. 
Kernot at least had political experience, but little in the way of ability. Garrett had neither political experience nor ability. 
It's a poor reflection on Rudd's judgement that he'd take on a bloke who is a tree hugger and a former rock star, and promote him to one of the senior government portfolios. Exactly what Garrett had to offer in the way of political ability, escapes me. But his high profile as a rock star was what attracted Rudd, not his political ability. I'd say that's a pretty poor reason for selecting someone to join the team that runs the country. Rudd is now learning that the hard way.

He and his unionist/rock star government are stumbling along like a bunch of amateurs, making one stuff up after another. As Calliope points out, they're sadly lacking in people who have experience in running an efficient business.

On top of that, Rudd is forever behaving like a dingbat by pulling stilly stunts to draw attention to himself and put across the image that he's a good, down to earth bloke. 
The general public are starting to see straight through him. Pity they didn't see through him before they elected him, but better late than never.


----------



## specialed (28 February 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*



basilio said:


> I'm getting a bit fed up with Rudd bashing in this forum.
> 
> "Rudd degrading the office of PM" What unspeakable act, gross studipity, corruption or whatever justifies such a statement . ([I Of course I'm sure one of our resident rudd bashers can find some excuse to warrant the slur.[/I])
> 
> ...




Gameshows and Breakfast tv should be beneath someone in the role of PM. Whether or not you agree with Howards decision to go to war, or even teh children overboard affair, these were at least politcal acts.... Appearing on Good News Week is nothing more than a PR exercise.. Off hand I cant remember any cheap PR stuns by Howard, I'm sure there may have been some in the end....it took Rudd about 10 hours


----------



## specialed (28 February 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*

When is someone going to ask Rudd if the school halls will need to audited for safety so children are not the next casulty caused by a rushed policy decision


----------



## Julia (28 February 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*



So_Cynical said:


> :
> 
> The 5 online betting agency's taking bets on the election all have the ALP at about $1.28 and the LNP $3.80, now for those amongst us that are super conservative and don't have a good understanding of gambling ill put this in terms they can easily understand.



You seem to be confused here.  The LNP only applies in Queensland, so any comparison between the national ALP and the LNP would be meaningless.




basilio said:


> I'm getting a bit fed up with Rudd bashing in this forum.
> 
> I think Kevin Rudd can be fairly criticized and if he doesn't have a good rethink about how effective the public service needs to be he deserves to get a boot up the bum. I suspect it might come from his own side however.
> 
> ...



You're quite right in suggesting all politicians have their failings.  It just happens that John Howard and whatever his decisions were (and I absolutely agree with you about the evidence for going to war in Iraq) are history.

Mr Rudd is our present Prime Minister, and he is finally being held to account for at least some of his rushed and improvident decisions.

As Bunyip has observed, Peter Garrett had zilch in the way of qualifications for political office and if the Labor Party took him on to capitalise on his rock star reputation, they have now adequately paid for such stupidity.
He is completely unsuited to a life in politics.  

Meantime, he has effectively no job, other than maybe opening Art Gallery exhibitions and having his picture taken with the odd koala or hairy nosed wombat.  For this we taxpayers will continue to reward him in undue proportions to the contribution he makes.

Mr Rudd should have had the courage to simply sack him.  But to do so would have been to hang Garrett out to dry for a whole of government decision.  Rudd, being the micro manager that he is, would have told Garrett to rush the roll out of the programme, with now obvious lack of regard for appropriate safety standards.

There's a silver lining to the insulation debacle:  we now know better than to expect that Federal Labor would do a better job than the States on Health.

I'd like to see the Opposition blow torch next directed onto the NBN project for which apparently the government have done absolutely no research.
It seems likely that if it comes to fruition, by that time it will be superseded technologically, and quite possibly too expensive for the average household to adopt.


----------



## Duckman#72 (28 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



IFocus said:


> The fact is we were very, very, lucky.
> 
> Lucky that the rise of commodity boom times fed back into our economy remember the libs were in power during a massive expansion of gov income.




This is a common misconception. The benefits of the mining boom were primarily slewed to the tail end of the Howard era. It also coincided with the Libs getting lazy on policy.   



IFocus said:


> Lucky that Howard didn't win the election with his over the top ambitious spending plans.




We should thank our lucky stars that we had a fiscal conservative at the helm while navigating through the GFC.



IFocus said:


> Lucky that our banks rip us off on the fees they charge and make embarrassingly large amounts of profit so didn't need to get over exposed to derivatives. This is the really big one.




I agree...to a point. But it wasn't luck, it was part of the legislative banking guidelines put down by Costello. The fact that Australia's banks weren't caught up big time with Mortgaged Back Securities can be attributed more to Costello than luck. 



IFocus said:


> Lucky housing prices remained up under pinned by gov 1st home buyers so under pinning banks cap levels. I could go on and on but the GFC was a contagion and people have remarkably short memory's.




I agree to both comments.



IFocus said:


> Oh and the fat lady still hasn't sung yet now that sovereign risk is in play and Australia cannot afford a dim wit like Barnaby running finance and a shadow treasurer that can only say glib one liners.




For a start we already have a Shadow Treasurer that can only say glib one liners. Actually I'm not even sure they are glib. Secondly would the Coalition done any worse than the following:

* Spending $43 Billion on a new communications network without a clear business plan
* Give away a quarter of a billion to the TV stations in an election year for no increase in Aussie content.
* Design and implement the now infamous ceiling insulation program without reading Government requested reports.   

Not to mention the "computer for classrooms" disaster, the "halls/fences/sporting complexes for schools whether you need it or not" scheme and the "we'll-fix-it" insulation bailout(on top of the inital waste).

Be careful about who you are calling dim wits IFocus .

Duckman


----------



## drsmith (28 February 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*



Datsun Disguise said:


> Top of the list was something like 'Gee whiz, this governemnt stuff (I'm sure there was a 'business of' in there somewhere) is a bit harder than we thought' This commetn made in trying to explain the undelivered promises and poorly executed schemes.



They worked out how to win an election against a Prime Minister that was past his best-by-date but obviously not much beyond that.


----------



## So_Cynical (28 February 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> I am watching Rudd on Insiders this morning.
> 
> He looks rattled, will not answer a question directly (as ever) and even has Barrie Cassidy a left wing commentator unable to save him from himself.
> 
> He's doing a comprehensive "Peter Beattie" impersonation, but not as convincingly.






noco said:


> Just watched Rudd on Insiders.
> 
> Barrie Cassidy as predicted, SOFTLY-SOFTLY-SOFTLY.
> 
> ...




Just watched the piece and have come to the conclusion that you guys are delusional...rattled, lol just lol opcorn:

http://www.abc.net.au/insiders/


----------



## drsmith (28 February 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*

The grin on his face when he was responding to questions about hospitals suggests to me that he knows he's full of crap.


----------



## IFocus (28 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



Duckman#72 said:


> * Spending $43 Billion on a new communications network without a clear business plan
> * Give away a quarter of a billion to the TV stations in an election year for no increase in Aussie content.
> * Design and implement the now infamous ceiling insulation program without reading Government requested reports.
> 
> ...




Agree with this, Conroy is a big disappointment (read dud) and Garrett nuf said.

Still has to be the poorest team on all things economy the Libs have ever had, Barnaby should be on the front bench but not finance........it has a real chance of haunting Abbott.


----------



## drsmith (28 February 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*

The Coalition is not ready to govern and the current lot are, well, not too good at it.

Oh the pain! The pain!


----------



## Calliope (1 March 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*



basilio said:


> I'm getting a bit fed up with Rudd bashing in this forum.
> 
> But when I think of people who "degrade the office of PM" I keep remembering  Howard deliberately vilifying  boat people( "Children overboard") to split the Labour party and fire up some good old fashioned "hate and fear politics hate and fear politics.




The Rudd haters are suffering severe withdrawal symptoms, They still need a regular fix of "children overboard" to keep their spirits up.

And as for "hate and fear politics" Rudd was driving his GW campaign based on hatred of the sceptics and fear of a cataclysmic disaster. But that's only to be expected of a serial liar and manipulator, who each day degrades his office further.


----------



## basilio (1 March 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*



> The Rudd haters are suffering severe withdrawal symptoms, They still need a regular fix of "children overboard" to keep their spirits up.
> 
> And as for "hate and fear politics" Rudd was driving his GW campaign based on hatred of the sceptics and fear of a cataclysmic disaster. But that's only to be expected of a serial liar and manipulator, who each day degrades his office further.




Thanks for another measured response Calliope

I repeat. Being critical of some poor decisions and in particular how well a government is administering the economy is one thing. Just turning the argument  into vitriol and hate is, in my view, going too far. I just don't believe the government deserves that sort of abuse. (But then who ever said the world was fair and rational!)

I am very disappointed and angry with how the insulation and Green Loans programs have been handled. I believe they were fundamentally good ideas but were simply not thought through properly and did not have proper supervision to pick up on the rapidly expanding rorts.  In fact one of the serious failures of the public service as a whole (IMO) is an inability or unwillingness to actually check out reality for themselves rather than waiting for formal reports and end of project analysis. 

Back in the real world I suggest that politicians and Public Service from all sides attempt to brazen out sticky situations rather than  quickly accepting there are stuff ups and addressing them. If there is anything that should come out of the current debacles it should be a willingness to keep a closer eye on how projects are being administered and being prepared to act when it goes off the rails. 

Or is that just far too sensible for  real politick ?


----------



## Calliope (1 March 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*



basilio said:


> Thanks for another measured response Calliope...
> 
> In fact one of the serious failures of the public service as a whole (IMO) is an inability or unwillingness to actually check out reality for themselves rather than waiting for formal reports and end of project analysis.




Bureaucrats are total failures at managing any enterprise whether it be pink bats, hospitals, aboriginal housing, broadband roll out, renewable energy, etc. Especially when they are given a fist full of dollars with no checks and balances and exhorted by Rudd to spend, spend, spend.

It is good to see that you have not lost your faith in Rudd. He has rewarded your faith by becoming the *great apologist.* He has now taken the sins of all his cabinet on his own shoulders. This is almost Christ-like. Perhaps one day Saint Kevin may lay down his life to absolve us of all our sins.


----------



## lasty (1 March 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*

Rudd deserves the lashings from this forum and all the other media outlets.
Even the beloved SMH lefty medium has given him a whack !
The spin doctors have come out with a doosey looking for the sympathy vote.
Rudd has so many advisors who can he trust? Are they setting him up?
One ALP MP came out in support and said they had too many projects.
No they didnt have projects, they had pipedreams with no substance.
Obviously the Rudd supporters are getting rattled and coming out in support.
Why support this idiot? Infact they are all idiots and politicians have lost all credibility as they are in it for the gravy train and not the taxpayer.

I have questioned the mental ability of Rudd. Im now questioning the mental ability of his supporters as well.


----------



## snowking (1 March 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*



Calliope said:


> It is good to see that you have not lost your faith in Rudd. He has rewarded your faith by becoming the *great apologist.* He has now taken the sins of all his cabinet on his own shoulders. This is almost Christ-like. Perhaps one day Saint Kevin may lay down his life to absolve us of all our sins.




He will then rise again to show us how truly divine he really is.


----------



## lasty (1 March 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*



snowking said:


> He will then rise again to show us how truly divine he really is.




He is not the messiah. He is very naughty boy !

Rudd is a souffle.. He may rise once more but lacks substance.


----------



## jetblack (1 March 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*



Calliope said:


> ............................
> 
> It is good to see that you have not lost your faith in Rudd. He has rewarded your faith by becoming the *great apologist.* He has now taken the sins of all his cabinet on his own shoulders. This is almost Christ-like. Perhaps one day Saint Kevin may lay down his life to absolve us of all our sins.





I dont know if its faith, I think Mr Rudd has the ability to reward stupidity with stupidity.


----------



## IFocus (1 March 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*



basilio said:


> I am very disappointed and angry with how the insulation and Green Loans programs have been handled. I believe they were fundamentally good ideas but were simply not thought through properly and did not have proper supervision to pick up on the rapidly expanding rorts.  In fact one of the serious failures of the public service as a whole (IMO) is an inability or unwillingness to actually check out reality for themselves rather than waiting for formal reports and end of project analysis.




The program was way to big for the speed in which they wanted to roll it out. The department responsible was not equipped to handle the program in any way shape or form, BTW this all was fed back to cabinet which they signed of on.

If it was handled by an experienced political hard head and or there was a stronger department head then perhaps the short comings may have been addressed.


----------



## noco (1 March 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

So Rudd says SORRY again. I goofed, please forgive me, I'll work harder to make things right. I didn't think it was going to be soooo hard to impliment all of my promises.

How pathetic can this man get. 

He has goofed on:-
* Fuel watch.
* Grocery watch.
* Arrival of more illegal immigrants.
* The home insuation debale.
* Computers for every school student year 9-12.
* Relationships with China, India, Japan, Isreal and Singapore.
* The broken promise on Hospitals.
* Climate Change.
* The ETS and CPRS.

Now he and Gillard have  a new CANDY stick ( the National School Curriculum) to sweeten you up. 

Another diversion from the real issues of the things he has goofed on.

How can this man possibly inspire confidence.


----------



## Julia (1 March 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*

I'm not sure this is the right thread for the following, but didn't want to start yet another anti-government thread.

This article was in the Weekend Australian
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-off-to-a-slow-start-gp-super-clinics/story-e

It looks as though these super clinics, a bit like the insulation roll out and the non-researched NBN, may be yet another waste of taxpayer dollars.  Here is an extract:



> THE network of GP super clinics being rolled out by the Rudd government may do little to improve access to health services and could worsen it by driving other family doctors out of business.
> 
> Experts told a forum on health reform in Canberra this week there was little evidence that the $275 million committed to the program would bring real improvements. They also questioned some key tenets used to justify the scheme, including the federal government's expectation that the centres would bulk-bill most or all patients, and would help fix the national shortage of GPs by encouraging more medical students to choose general practice over other specialties.
> 
> Some of the four experts who addressed the forum, held at the Australian National University, conceded super clinics could bring benefits if introduced in the right way. But all expressed some measure of concern at aspects of the implementation.


----------



## snowking (2 March 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*



lasty said:


> He is not the messiah. He is very naughty boy !
> 
> Rudd is a souffle.. He may rise once more but lacks substance.




i left the sarscastic roll eyes thing off.....maybe if he's lucky he'll rise to the UN

the guy is a muppet, he is now sending AFP officers to Israel. Look out Mossad


----------



## moXJO (2 March 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I support a national curriculum and think it has its advantages. I hope labor has learnt from its other failed rollouts and manages to get this right. While I think the school building scheme was a bit over the top with some major waste of tax payers $ going on. In general I support anything to do with fixing our education system. But this seems like another distraction from all the other incompetence.

The problem and my concern is this govt does not seem to be able to deliver, or be able to concentrate on one area without dumping it, and then running to the next project. They basically destroyed the insulation industry in a matter of 6 months. A lot of these guys that have been around for years would probably find that there is little work left after we have jammed cheap imported insulation in thousands of roofs, and then destroyed their reputation. The idea was fine but the implementation of it sucked.

But instead of solutions labor just seems to blow off any failed scheme and move onto the next thing. How many millions (if not billions) of taxpayers dollars will they waste on some kind of scheme by scheme popularity contest in the polls. Maybe they should slow down a bit and try to follow through with better thought out plans.


----------



## noco (2 March 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



moXJO said:


> I support a national curriculum and think it has its advantages. I hope labor has learnt from its other failed rollouts and manages to get this right. While I think the school building scheme was a bit over the top with some major waste of tax payers $ going on. In general I support anything to do with fixing our education system. But this seems like another distraction from all the other incompetence.
> 
> The problem and my concern is this govt does not seem to be able to deliver, or be able to concentrate on one area without dumping it, and then running to the next project. They basically destroyed the insulation industry in a matter of 6 months. A lot of these guys that have been around for years would probably find that there is little work left after we have jammed cheap imported insulation in thousands of roofs, and then destroyed their reputation. The idea was fine but the implementation of it sucked.
> 
> But instead of solutions labor just seems to blow off any failed scheme and move onto the next thing. How many millions (if not billions) of taxpayers dollars will they waste on some kind of scheme by scheme popularity contest in the polls. Maybe they should slow down a bit and try to follow through with better thought out plans.




Yes, I agree the National School  Curriculum is long over due, but can these clowns, as you say, deliver the system without goofing.


----------



## bunyip (2 March 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*

Not even the Rudd lovers would deny that Rudd has done some unbelievably stupid things. Even Rudd himself is admitting that he's made some foolish mistakes. 
The interesting thing is that although he's incompetent and foolish, Rudd was dux of his school. So in the academic area at least, he's a smart man.
Clearly though, academic brains don't necessarily equate to common sense or managerial ability or business acumen.
Rudd has a very active mind that's always thinking up grandiose plans for Australia - plans that he seems to genuinely believe will benefit the country - but he lacks the common sense to make an accurate assessment of these plans to see if they're practical. 
Furthermore, there are few if any people among his advisers and colleagues with the business experience necessary to fill the gap in Rudd's ability and business experience.
For example, take his wacky home insulation scheme as a way of giving the economy a short term lift - a person with business acumen would have come up with a dozen different projects that would have equally boosted the economy short term, but also had ongoing benefits to Australian industry for decades to come.
Rudd just doesn't have what it takes.

We now have a responsibility to our country to vote him out at the next election.


----------



## Mofra (2 March 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



Duckman#72 said:


> * Spending $43 Billion on a new communications network without a clear business plan



Assuming they stay under the $43b budget; which is already looking impossible as the Tasmanian trials have already been pushed back by 6 months.


----------



## Julia (2 March 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



moXJO said:


> I support a national curriculum and think it has its advantages. I hope labor has learnt from its other failed rollouts and manages to get this right. While I think the school building scheme was a bit over the top with some major waste of tax payers $ going on. In general I support anything to do with fixing our education system. But this seems like another distraction from all the other incompetence.
> 
> The problem and my concern is this govt does not seem to be able to deliver, or be able to concentrate on one area without dumping it, and then running to the next project. They basically destroyed the insulation industry in a matter of 6 months. A lot of these guys that have been around for years would probably find that there is little work left after we have jammed cheap imported insulation in thousands of roofs, and then destroyed their reputation. The idea was fine but the implementation of it sucked.
> 
> But instead of solutions labor just seems to blow off any failed scheme and move onto the next thing. How many millions (if not billions) of taxpayers dollars will they waste on some kind of scheme by scheme popularity contest in the polls. Maybe they should slow down a bit and try to follow through with better thought out plans.



Great summary.   Now they are also announcing change to how the hospitals are funded.   I'm not sure how that will actually fix the ailing health system.
They just seem to be floundering around in a panic.


----------



## moXJO (2 March 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> Now they are also announcing change to how the hospitals are funded.   I'm not sure how that will actually fix the ailing health system.
> They just seem to be floundering around in a panic.



Perhaps a case of 'too much too soon' regarding policies. Or maybe they were in the wilderness for so long they needed a debt party with taxpayer’s dollars to boost self-esteem .

 There is a chance labor may have learnt some lessons (here's hoping). And they may concentrate efforts a bit more. Honestly I would be happy if they just resigned themselves to slow but steady progress on one-two issues, Instead of blowing costs through the roof in a short space of time on what amounts to be disasters.


----------



## Mr J (2 March 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



drsmith said:


> The Coalition is not ready to govern and the current lot are, well, not too good at it.
> 
> Oh the pain! The pain!




I'd take a government that doesn't get anything done over one that tries to get everything done but poorly.


----------



## matty77 (2 March 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



Mr J said:


> I'd take a government that doesn't get anything done over one that tries to get everything done but poorly.




At least if nothing gets done no money gets wasted, show me anything Labor has done to save any money at all?


----------



## matty77 (2 March 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



moXJO said:


> Perhaps a case of 'too much too soon' regarding policies. Or maybe they were in the wilderness for so long they needed a debt party with taxpayer’s dollars to boost self-esteem .
> 
> There is a chance labor may have learnt some lessons (here's hoping). And they may concentrate efforts a bit more. Honestly I would be happy if they just resigned themselves to slow but steady progress on one-two issues, Instead of blowing costs through the roof in a short space of time on what amounts to be disasters.




100% agreed, when you want quality it takes time, when you want crap you can usually get it done straight away. The labor government is in panic mode making all the wrong decisions.


----------



## Buddy (2 March 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



IFocus said:


> Still has to be the poorest team on all things economy the Libs have ever had, Barnaby should be on the front bench but not finance........it has a real chance of haunting Abbott.




Interesting that you say that about BJ. If you actually read his C.V. his credentials are better than Swan and Tanner. His qualifications are more relevant to the position and his experience is wider. Maybe you just don't like what he says. BTW, he might be closer to the mark than you think, with his view on whether Australia can ever pay back the massive debt that has accumulated.


----------



## bunyip (2 March 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



So_Cynical said:


> And a chunk of it went into poker machines...so what
> 
> The goal was the immediate stimulation of the economy and the result was the immediate stimulation of the economy,  no one said it was gona be pretty.




Yeh, and the other part of the result was to push our already massive debt even higher, with minimal benefit to the nation long term.
There are so many ways the money could have been better spent to stimulate the economy and at the same time provide long term benefits to the country.
At first glance it appears that Rudd did the right thing in the way he dished out the stimulus money. But anyone with a bit of business acumen and common sense can see straight through it for the stuff up that it was.
It was as much an effort to win votes as anything else.


----------



## cornnfedd (2 March 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*

is it just me or has Krudd aged a hell of a lot over the past 12 months?


----------



## bunyip (3 March 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



cornnfedd said:


> is it just me or has Krudd aged a hell of a lot over the past 12 months?




Rudd has aged all right - my wife and I were commenting on this just a couple of nights back when we saw him on TV.
I reckon Abbot has aged a fair bit recently too. 
Mind you, I'd probably age prematurely myself if I was involved in the rough and tumble of politics - particularly if I was an ALP politician having to tolerate union mugs and tree huggers as my colleagues and confidantes.


----------



## Duckman#72 (3 March 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



Buddy said:


> Interesting that you say that about BJ. If you actually read his C.V. his credentials are better than Swan and Tanner. His qualifications are more relevant to the position and his experience is wider. Maybe you just don't like what he says. BTW, he might be closer to the mark than you think, with his view on whether Australia can ever pay back the massive debt that has accumulated.




I agree Buddy. When it comes to BJ we are all to quick to judge the messenger and not the message. It is a type of double standard - it is OK for a lawyer, banker or career public servant (you reading Tanner) to make outlandish comments largely unnoticed. But when you are ex-accountant BJ, it is newsworthy.  

Mind you I think karma is probably coming back to bite him. The media loved BJ when he was the "Maverick Cowboy" sticking it up the Libs. As a result his comments were given too much airing and too little scrutiny for his position. Now it is reverse, the delivery of his comments are given too much scrutiny with little publicity given to the actual message.  

BJ's problem hasn't been helped by a political cycle where the Coalition is riding a wave and Labor are being mauled. Over the past 2 months, night after night, Labor have had bad news story after bad news story. In an attempt to provide a "balanced view" they look for a negative story on "the other side". 

You can almost here the voiceover on Channel 9 _"For the fourth day running, Prime Minister Rudd has had to answer questions over the competency of his Environment Minister, amist new claims of billions of taxpayer dollars lost through the rorting of the home insulation system. Meanwhile the Coalition were having problems of their own when the Finance Minister tried to explain to journalists about the level of Australia's debt_". ......Insert BJ's comment...  

Are they even comparable?? Leigh Sales did it last Friday night on Lateline while talking to Craig Emerson. I couldn't believe it. She said to Craig Emerson that it was a bit hypercritical of the Coalition to call for the sacking of Garrett when Ministers in the Howard Government were not sacked for similar offences...and then, get this....*the example she gave was Brendan Nelson not getting sacked when the body of Private Jake Kovko was not flown back into the country*!!! 

Now that was tragic for the family and embarrassing for the country and our soldiers deserve much, much better. But Leigh......really......are you honestly trying to compare the Home Insulation Debacle (including the deaths, rorts, and  multi-million dollar bailout) of which the Minister had hands on involvement with the policy, to the unfortunate mix up of a deceased Australian serviceman? 

To Craig Emerson's credit, he instantly saw the ridiculous aspect of the statement and moved onto something more credible. Leigh, if you and the ABC are going to provide free kicks for the Government can you make sure their Ministers are not embarrassed to use them. 

Duckman


----------



## GumbyLearner (6 March 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I think it's time for PM cliche boy *'to step up to the plate'* and ask Simon Crean, Tony Burke to closely examine that plate and determine exactly *''what's their beef?"* over clean & safe Australian beef. He really should make sure that if they do *'get it'*, then Australian consumers can be empowered with adequate beef labeling choices so that they don't need to worry about anyone else's beef.


----------



## bunyip (9 March 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*

While sewing a cut on the hand of a 75 year old Aussie farmer whose hand was caught in the gate while working cattle, the doctor struck up a conversation with the old man.
Eventually the topic got around to Kevin Rudd and his role as our Prime Minister.

The old farmer said, 'Well, you know, in my opinion, Rudd is a ‘Post Turtle’.
Not being familiar with the term, the doctor asked him, what a 'post turtle’ was.

The old farmer said, 'When you're driving down a country road and you come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's a 'post turtle'.

The farmer saw the puzzled look on the doctor's face so he continued to explain.
'You know he didn't get up there by himself, he doesn't belong up there, he doesn't know what to do while he's up there, and you just wonder what kind of dumb bugger put him up there to begin with.'


----------



## GumbyLearner (9 March 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd degrades the office of PM*

All I can honestly add in response to this thread title is...

So would I, if I were in charge!


----------



## trainspotter (17 March 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

*licking my chops on this one*

*KEVIN Rudd's personal approval is at its worst since he became opposition leader in December 2006, and the Coalition is in its best position on primary votes since John Howard was prime minister and Kim Beazley was Labor leader. *

For the full article http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/rud...-low-with-voters/story-e6frg12c-1225841246273

BUT Tony the white rabbit has only got 25 basis points to make up as prefererred PM (read not going to happen) AND they are 8 points behind Labor if a vote was held today in Banana Republic.


----------



## lasty (17 March 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> *licking my chops on this one*
> 
> *KEVIN Rudd's personal approval is at its worst since he became opposition leader in December 2006, and the Coalition is in its best position on primary votes since John Howard was prime minister and Kim Beazley was Labor leader. *
> 
> ...




When the news strts to sufface about the wasteage from this govt in "special projects".The Batts in the ceilings was one but now the school buildings make it a complete disaster $8 Billion of wastage.
Then Rudd is on the outer and Big Red (Julia) is in the forefront.
Whitlam part2.. you bet.. as the unions are now starting to ask questions.


----------



## Julia (17 March 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

All the mischievous rumour mongering about Julia Gillard being about to replace Kevin Rudd (no doubt started by the Libs and happily carried on by the fourth estate) puzzles me in that no one ever brings up Stephen Smith as a contender for PM.

I'd much prefer him to Ms Gillard.  He's always calm, measured in his responses, actually answers questions as distinct from trotting out the party line (something both Rudd and Gillard have down to an art form), speaks clearly and looks very presentable.

Wouldn't he be way preferable over either the PM or his Deputy?

I even prefer Lindsay Tanner over Gillard or Rudd.


----------



## moXJO (18 March 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



lasty said:


> When the news strts to sufface about the wasteage from this govt in "special projects".The Batts in the ceilings was one but now the school buildings make it a complete disaster $8 Billion of wastage.
> Then Rudd is on the outer and Big Red (Julia) is in the forefront.
> Whitlam part2.. you bet.. as the unions are now starting to ask questions.




Big red was overseeing the school building I thought? I think Rudd will be secretly happy she would cop some negative limelight
There were a few guys wanting to talk out on the issue, but imo they would have a hard time working again in NSW. Some of those main contractors couldn't run a bath, let alone a work site. Their whole building process was backwards which caused delays and headaches and was run by a bunch of idiots that seemed to have no clue about how to go about building. God knows what industry they came from before becoming site/area managers because they had no clue with their heads firmly wedged up their ass.
There were some decent site managers but they were held down by incompetent area managers


----------



## lasty (18 March 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



moXJO said:


> Big red was overseeing the school building I thought? I think Rudd will be secretly happy she would cop some negative limelight
> There were a few guys wanting to talk out on the issue, but imo they would have a hard time working again in NSW. Some of those main contractors couldn't run a bath, let alone a work site. Their whole building process was backwards which caused delays and headaches and was run by a bunch of idiots that seemed to have no clue about how to go about building. God knows what industry they came from before becoming site/area managers because they had no clue with their heads firmly wedged up their ass.
> There were some decent site managers but they were held down by incompetent area managers




Especially one who still oversees the project and was found guilty by ICAC over the railcorp scandal.
Its all starting to fester and this could be damning for both state Labor Govts anas well as federal.


----------



## trainspotter (18 March 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

*Govt dismisses reports of cost blowouts*

Nationals MP Darren Chester said the schools overspend was as bad as the bungled insulation program.

"Julia Gillard is like Imelda Marcos in a shoe shop," he told reporters.

"She just keeps on spending and expects the peasants to pay the bill.

"Well, the Australian taxpayers are sick of being treated as peasants."

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/1028716/nsw-school-costs-double-quote-price for the full report.


----------



## Julia (31 March 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

There's probably a more appropriate thread but I can't find it at present.

From an observation by commentator Ross Greenwood:



> The six leading members of the government from Prime Minister Rudd down have 181 years of work experience but only 13 in the private sector.
> 
> Omitting the time spent as trade union lawyers the total shrinks to two years in the private sector.
> 
> The Prime Minister's wife has many more years experience in the private sector.  Perhaps it is time to hand over the reins to Therese!


----------



## trainspotter (31 March 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

So out of 181 years:

- no years spent running their own business
- no years spent starting their own business
- no years spent as a director of a family business or a company
- no years as a director of a public company
- no years in a senior position in a public company
- no years in a senior position in a private company
- no years working in corporate finance
- no years in corporate or business restructuring
- no years working in or with a bank
- no years of experience in the capital markets
- no years in a stock-broking firm
- no years in negotiating debt facilities with banks
- no years running a small business
- no years at the World Bank or IMF or OECD
- no years in Treasury or Finance.


----------



## noco (31 March 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> There's probably a more appropriate thread but I can't find it at present.
> 
> From an observation by commentator Ross Greenwood:




Rudd has the audacity to say none of the top Liberal Shadow Ministers has any credibility when it come to economic management. Barnaby Joyce at least was an accountant.

Check this out:-

LINSDAY TANNER before entering Parliament.

Article Clerk for Soliciter 1982-1985.
Electoral Assistant to Senator B.C.Cooney 1985- 1987.
Assistant Secretary Federated Clerks union 1987-1988.
State Secretary Federated Clerks union Victoria 1988-1993. 

 And he is our Finance Minister???????


----------



## craigj (31 March 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

with every day kev is looking like a muppet  
my apologies to all i voted for him and all he has done is invent a new language   - specicifity speaking


----------



## Julia (31 March 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



craigj said:


> with every day kev is looking like a muppet
> my apologies to all i voted for him and all he has done is invent a new language   - specicifity speaking



Craig, I'm interested to know why you voted for him?  Didn't like/approve of the previous government?
Just time for a change?

Or was there something you actually liked about Mr Rudd?


----------



## Julia (31 March 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noco said:


> Rudd has the audacity to say none of the top Liberal Shadow Ministers has any credibility when it come to economic management. Barnaby Joyce at least was an accountant.
> 
> Check this out:-
> 
> ...



You could also note that our esteemed Treasurer, Mr Swan, possesses nothing more than a B.A.  Hard to see how that qualifies him for running the country's finances.


----------



## noco (31 March 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> You could also note that our esteemed Treasurer, Mr Swan, possesses nothing more than a B.A.  Hard to see how that qualifies him for running the country's finances.




Prior to entering parliament, Swan was a lecturer in public administration at the Queensland  institute of Technology.

He also worked as an advser to former opposition leader Bill Hayden, Special Minister of State Mick Young and leader of the Opposition Kim Beazley. 1996-1998.

He is a former State Secretary of the Queensland branch of the ALP.

Not sure what his role was under Goss.

Swan was first elected to the seat of Lilley in 1993. He was defeated in the 1996 election, but was reelected in 1998.

Have not observed any connection to economics or money management.
He is Ken Hebry's puppet.


----------



## trainspotter (1 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Robin WIlliams makes a funny about the Australian "rednecks" and the strange flora and fauna we have in our country. PM KRUDD leaps into the fray and chastises Robin for his target humour. HERR Rudd made his thoughts on the comments perfectly clear during a Melbourne radio show.

"First of all, I think Robin Williams should go and spend a bit of time in Alabama before he frames comments about anyone being particularly redneck," he said.

OH OH ! Should the Ruddmeister have made this statement? Afterall without the rednecks in the world we would not have had "Dukes of Hazzard" or should our illustrious PM be focussing more on getting Stern Hu a decent prison cell ?


----------



## Buddy (1 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> Robin WIlliams makes a funny about the Australian "rednecks" and the strange flora and fauna we have in our country. PM KRUDD leaps into the fray and chastises Robin for his target humour. HERR Rudd made his thoughts on the comments perfectly clear during a Melbourne radio show.
> 
> "First of all, I think Robin Williams should go and spend a bit of time in Alabama before he frames comments about anyone being particularly redneck," he said.
> 
> OH OH ! Should the Ruddmeister have made this statement? Afterall without the rednecks in the world we would not have had "Dukes of Hazzard" or should our illustrious PM be focussing more on getting Stern Hu a decent prison cell ?




Now he's upset the Governor of Alabamy.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/alabama-governor-hits-out-at-rudds-redneck-jibe/story-fn3dxity-1225848646069
Same old, same old................
Firstly, may I say, Robin Williams should go to Alabamy
Secondy, let me say, Robin Williams is not funny saying Australians are English rednecks.
Thridly, I will say, I can joke at other people's expense but not at mine. 

Man oh man, what a twit.
No wonder everyone he deals with hates him.
Sorry guys, this twit is a moron. We gotta get rid of him.


----------



## Buckfont (1 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Agreed Buddy, he is a FWit, and obviously has no idea of the one thing that Aussies are renown for, that is being able to put $hit on themselves. Good on Robin Williams.

Krudd has never made me laugh, and the way he`s going I`ll be dead and buried before it happens. And his response is just another nail in HIS coffin.


----------



## trainspotter (1 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Chairman Rudd announced today he is doing his best for Stern Hu and promised to get his prison cell insulated with pink batts to keep him cosy and warm.  Mr Hu was heard to mutter "Give me the padded cell any day"


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (1 April 2010)

*Rudd Alabama Slur*

When will Kevin Rudd learn to keep his big mouth shut. I do much business with the good people of Alabama and Georgia.

This from the Sydney Morning Herald.

http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment...-out-at-rudds-redneck-jibe-20100401-rhdw.html



> Rudd responded to the Oscar-winning actor-comedian's joke during an interview on Eddie Maguire's Triple M radio show.
> 
> "First of all, I think Robin Williams should go and spend a bit of time in Alabama before he frames comments about anyone being particularly redneck," Mr Rudd told Maguire.
> 
> ...




I'd bet two shakes of a sauce bottle to a Maguire that he wouldn't be game to say it about China.

And where does he think the girls from Scores in New York come from, many from Alabama of course. He can't remember so wouldn't know if they had rednecks, not that he was looking at their necks.

What a dill

gg


----------



## trainspotter (1 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Has anybody done any research as to EXACTLY what the PM has delivered in the way of guvmnt policies? Computers in schools - FAIL ... is one that springs to mind. I am sure there is a plethora of broken promises on nonfulfillment of policies floating around out there. Copenhagen ETS was "The great moral and economic challenge of our time" - FAIL .... Anyone got anymore ?


----------



## snowking (1 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*

Rudd is a ****ing idiot! Why he felt the need to involve himself in something like this just goes to show what type of person he really is.

Hamish and Andy had Robin Williams on their program this afternoon and he is a very funny man. He was cracking jokes about Rudd traveling constantly, the food on the plane and a bunch of other stuff that I can't recall off the top of my head, but needless to say he was very well informed on the goings on of our leader.

You can listen to it here http://www.2dayfm.com.au/shows/hamishandandy/


----------



## moXJO (1 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*

I heard the interview with Robin Williams today and it was nothing but a light hearted roast of Oz. There was absolutely no reason for a PM to get involved. Honestly, no wonder other countries keep Rudd at arms length. The man is making up his own reality.


----------



## wayneL (1 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*

What has happened to Australia? You have elected a man(?) with no sense of humour as leader. How un-Australian. 

As much as I hated the last Labour nation wrecker, at least he had a rapier like wit and a sense of humour.


----------



## Whiskers (1 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*

Fair suck of the sav there fellas!



> *Redneck* is a derogatory slang term to refer to poor white Southern farmers in the United States.[1] It is similar in meaning to "cracker" (especially in Georgia and Florida), "hillbilly" (especially in Appalachia) and "white trash" (especially among blacks). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck




Our Macquarie Dictionary:



> a southern US white farm labourer, esp. one who is illeducated or ignorant... any uneducated prejuceded person, usually a manual worker.




I say the letterman show and personally don't find Williams all that funny.

In the total scheme of things what do you expect the PM of Aus to say about that sort of comment, especially as Williams made his comments in the context of the entertainment and tourism industries!?  Agree with it by default, no answer.

I think Williams and the yanks got off lightly by comparrison. 

They can dish it out but can't take even a small dose back... hell it was they who invented the term redneck... and I for one don't wish to be associated with disparaging US culture in that way.

Anyway, I'm glad someone spoke out to refute/disassociate Aus and our tourism industry from the comments, jokingly or otherwise.


----------



## Solly (1 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*

Ok, ASFers a friend in the industry sent me the H&A link ..

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid27188600001?bctid=75390894001


----------



## bandicoot76 (1 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*

my understanding of the origins of the word 'redneck' was that it came from the dutch term 'roine-neck' (probly incorrect spelling sorry) which was the term the boers used for the british soldiers fighting in the boer war, as the harsh african sun on their un-aclimatised skin combined with the heavily starched collars of their uniform rubbed their necks red raw... correct me if i'm mistaken


----------



## Whiskers (1 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*



bandicoot76 said:


> my understanding of the origins of the word 'redneck' was that it came from the dutch term 'roine-neck' (probly incorrect spelling sorry) which was the term the boers used for the british soldiers fighting in the boer war, as the harsh african sun on their un-aclimatised skin combined with the heavily starched collars of their uniform rubbed their necks red raw... correct me if i'm mistaken




I doubt that was the meaning Williams was referring to. 

Hell, most yanks don't even know all their own states let alone much of the rest of the world.

Do you really think they have any knowledge of the Boer war! 

Anyway, what does it say about the Alabama governor!? ...original redneck country, at least as far as the yanks are concerned. 

PS: And what about the Black and White Minstrel skit that THEY got all worked up about!!?

In a psychological sense Williams came across not as simple humour, but with a degree of sarcasm in a mocking tone, and to that extent our politically astute PM responded correctly.
http://www.bettyphillipspsychology.com/id74.html


----------



## moXJO (1 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*



Whiskers said:


> In the total scheme of things what do you expect the PM of Aus to say about that sort of comment,.




Ummmm...... nothing, you expect the leader of the country not to concern himself with such things. What's Rudd going to do next? Pick a fight with Miley Cyrus?
 And then to go and imply Alabama is full of rednecks, are we being run by a 2year old or what?


----------



## Whiskers (1 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*



moXJO said:


> Ummmm...... nothing, you expect the leader of the country not to concern himself with such things.




Com'on fellas, it all started out as you say a joke, not a very good joke, but it got a response, that in all fairness it deserved.

So you critics are saying that our PM is not allowed to comment or have an opinion about comedy, entertainment or general social comments!

*Didn't John Howard make a public comment/crititism of the infamous Big Brother show* to name one that comes to mind. That was entertainment come comedy wasn't it!? *I thought I better highlight that because political bias tends to be blind.*


> And then to go and imply Alabama is full of rednecks,




But according to American tradition and culture, they are!!!...certainly more so that Aus.



> ...are we being run by a 2year old or what?




No, but some of the crititism and commentry is 'child-like'.

Child-like as opposed to childish which is derogeratory to children.

Btw, I'm not in anyway supporting or defending Rudd, what I'm about is the underlying psychology of the behavior and the correct way to deal with it.


----------



## snowking (1 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*



Whiskers said:


> Fair suck of the sav there fellas!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




So in other words he should have used the word bogan  

Seems a more apt definition 







> The term bogan (pronounced /ˈboʊɡən/, rhyming with slogan) is Australian and New Zealand English slang, usually pejorative or self-deprecating, for a person who is, or is supposed to be, of a lower-class background and whose characteristics exemplify, often crudely, this background



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogan


----------



## moXJO (1 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*



Whiskers said:


> In a psychological sense Williams came across not as simple humour, but with a degree of sarcasm in a mocking tone, and to that extent our politically astute PM responded correctly
> 
> I doubt that was the meaning Williams was referring to.
> 
> ...




My God whiskers, were your feelings a little hurt when Williams called us rednecks

Don't you worry about those big bad seppos. They won't taunt us no more after Rudd's hissy fit


----------



## Julia (1 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*



Whiskers said:


> In a psychological sense Williams came across not as simple humour, but with a degree of sarcasm in a mocking tone, and to that extent our politically astute PM responded correctly.
> http://www.bettyphillipspsychology.com/id74.html



Oh, for heaven's sake, Whiskers, get a sense of proportion!
I heard a replay of the comments in question on ABC Radio and found it funny and good humoured in a similar way to the frequent mocking of Australians by Kiwis and vice versa.

I'd have hoped Mr Rudd would have somewhat more pressing matters with which to occupy his thoughts.

If we are all going to become absorbed into the current obsession for political correctness there's no hope for us imo.


----------



## Whiskers (1 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*



snowking said:


> So in other words he should have used the word bogan
> 
> Seems a more apt definition  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogan




Yeah. 

PS: re earlier comment, Rudd is an idiot... I'd call him a few things but not an idiot. He's a very astute political (psychological) operator. Never under estimate your enemy. 



moXJO said:


> My God whiskers, were your feelings a little hurt when Williams called us rednecks




A classic example of 'Teasing: Just Joking?'  You should study the link.



> Back to my original concern. Hostile teasing, picking, biting humor or sarcasm too often are insults poorly disguised as humor. They also are "double bind" communications which cause confusion, frustration, personal pain and anger in the recipient. The disguised message runs as follows. "I'm making fun of you and belittling you, but it's only humor. I don't really mean what I just said. There's something wrong with you when you don't accept my statements at face value as teasing even though my words are in fact critical and hostile."
> 
> 
> What to do? Its difficult to just walk away from the person taunting you because more of the same comments will likely follow. You will have to learn to be assertive and stand up to this kind of derogatory communication. "Call a spade a spade." That is, try to unmask the negative undertone or hostile intent of the picking or hurtful teasing. You can give your tormentor a copy of this article. You can ask that the person examine his or her intent in making these kinds of comments.
> ...







> Don't you worry about those big bad seppos. They won't taunt us no more after Rudd's hissy fit




It's not them that I'm concerned with... it's those agressive critics like you that can't take a bit of their own medicine back.

Aren't you going to comment on John Howards similar behaviour or that the Alabama gov responed in kind? 

Do they deserve the same crititism?


----------



## moXJO (1 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*



Whiskers said:


> A classic example of 'Teasing: Just Joking?'  You should study the link.




I wasn't joking whiskers I think Williams did offend you



> Aren't you going to comment on John Howards similar behaviour or that the Alabama gov responed in kind?
> 
> Do they deserve the same crititism




John Howard said Alabama was full of rednecks?



> In response, the Alabama governor pointed to Australian company Austral's decision to invest heavily in Alabama.
> 
> "That's why Alabama is home to Australian companies like Austral which employs more than 1000 Alabamians at the world's largest aluminium shipyard," Riley said.
> "I'm not sure if Prime Minister Rudd has ever been to Alabama," Riley responded in a statement.
> ...



Wow Zing!!! from the Alabama governor, notice the difference in what they said


----------



## Whiskers (2 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*



Julia said:


> Oh, for heaven's sake, Whiskers, get a sense of proportion!




Oh dear Julia, You sound cross. So, you don't respect my right to analyse this rationale! Proportion is exactly what I'm on about. 



> I heard a replay of the comments in question on ABC Radio and found it funny and good humoured in a similar way to the frequent mocking of Australians by Kiwis and vice versa.




I saw it on TV and also heard his (williams) response.  



> I'd have hoped Mr Rudd would have somewhat more pressing matters with which to occupy his thoughts.




As I understand it didn't occupy much of Rudds time at all, he simply responded to the press in passing.



> If we are all going to become absorbed into the current obsession for political correctness there's no hope for us imo.




But is this thread about political correctness or political point scoring... bias!?

Apart from the 'Australians are basically English Rednecks' comment he also made a personal jive at Rudd that Mr Rudd had heckled him during a recent concert. 

As I said earlier...



> Btw, I'm not in anyway supporting or defending Rudd, what I'm about is the underlying psychology of the behavior and the correct way to deal with it.




As I pointed out earlier it's a wider behavioral issue, but apart from what I thought was a clever response as I explained above, doesn't Rudd have a 'personal' right to take offence at a joke aimed at him? Wouldn't you!?

Rudd's reply when asked in an interview "I think Robin Williams should go and spend a bit of time in Alabama before he frames comments about anyone being particularly redneck."

*I'm curious how some people see that comment as a slur on Alabama especially since the US invented the term redneck in the context williams used and especially since the yanks used it regularly on each other.*

Political bias aside, purely on a personal behavioral level, why isn't the same critism levelled at the Alabama Gov for as moXJO implies 'childish' behavior?


----------



## Whiskers (2 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*



> I wasn't joking whiskers I think Williams did offend you




I know you do moXJO. Shame you can't see my point.



> John Howard said Alabama was full of rednecks?



Read my earlier post properly moXJO, show us where I said that.

You are just demonstrating your own stupidity by distorting the facts and trying to trivialise anyone who dissagrees with you. 



> Wow Zing!!! from the Alabama governor, notice the difference in what they said




Yes indeed, he knew exactly how derogeratory the term is and tried to argue that it didn't apply to one of the very states that the Yankes originally and still do apply the word to ocassionally.

That's why I said Rudd was 'clever' in the way he responded and deflected the comment back to whence it came.


----------



## moXJO (2 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*



Whiskers said:


> I know you do moXJO. Shame you can't see my point.
> 
> 
> Read my earlier post properly moXJO, show us where I said that.
> ...




Ok whiskers my trades not doing much atm, lets talk about the John Howard incident. Was that the one in which a women had a penis slapped on her face on a TV show (not shown only a sound bite). Yes great context to the current situation there. Was there a reason for the PM to comment in that situation? Or are you talking about another situation?



> That's why I said Rudd was 'clever' in the way he responded and deflected the comment back to whence it came.



So attacking someone else altogether is clever is it? How about play the man, ignore, or do what the governor in Alabama did and turn it into a positive spin reinforcing his people’s virtues. No let’s infer they are more redneck.


----------



## Whiskers (2 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*



moXJO said:


> Ok whiskers my trades not doing much atm, lets talk about the John Howard incident. Was that the one in which a women had a penis slapped on her face on a TV show (not shown only a sound bite). Yes great context to the current situation there. Was there a reason for the PM to comment in that situation? Or are you talking about another situation?




Nice change of tone there moXJO, thank you.

That's one example where the PM of the day voiced his opinion about undesirable social behavior. 

Another case for the tourism industry and poor reflection on Aus was the 'Where the bloody hell are you' thing that was dumped. Don't recall exactly what polies commented but it wasn't a good look and was canned prematurely after public crititism.



> So attacking someone else altogether is clever is it? How about *play the man*, *ignore,* or do what the governor in Alabama did and turn it into a positive spin reinforcing his people’s virtues. No let’s infer they are more redneck.




But Williams started the attack on Rudd who as I said simply deflected it back to whence it came. 

Have another look at his comment..."I think Robin Williams should go and spend a bit of time in Alabama before he frames comments about anyone being particularly redneck."

Rudd did *play the man *Williams by simply questioning the validity of the comment.

In any case Rudd didn't appreciate being called a redneck and nor did the Alabama governor...  my point is that's their right... score even I suppose and the egg is all back on williams face for starting it.

I'm surprised you suggest* ignore*. That's something you don't practice what you preach.


----------



## namrog (2 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*

Don't you people have anything better to do . or talk about.

This is a typical GG type of redneck thread about absolutely nothing  !!

Have a safe Easter everyone ..........


----------



## moXJO (2 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*



Whiskers said:


> Nice change of tone there moXJO, thank you.
> 
> .




Lets just understand it’s not because of your article or conditioning. I'm just too tired to link you to Dr Phil, or a tampon site.

"I'm making fun of you and belittling you, but it's only humor. I don't really mean what I just said. There's something wrong with you when you don't accept my statements at face value as teasing even though my words are in fact critical and hostile." 




> That's one example where the PM of the day voiced his opinion about undesirable social behavior.
> 
> Another case for the tourism industry and poor reflection on Aus was the 'Where the bloody hell are you' thing that was dumped. Don't recall exactly what polies commented but it wasn't a good look and was canned prematurely after public crititism.




He said
_"Here's a great opportunity for Channel Ten to do a bit of self regulation and get this stupid program off the air," _
after the incident.
TV show is a bit different to a backhand sledge on a US state.


> But Williams started the attack on Rudd who as I said simply deflected it back to whence it came.
> 
> Have another look at his comment..."I think Robin Williams should go and spend a bit of time in Alabama before he frames comments about anyone being particularly redneck."
> 
> ...




Lets look at the statements:

*'In response, the Alabama governor pointed to Australian company Austral's decision to invest heavily in Alabama.

"That's why Alabama is home to Australian companies like Austral which employs more than 1000 Alabamians at the world's largest aluminium shipyard," Riley said.
"I'm not sure if Prime Minister Rudd has ever been to Alabama," Riley responded in a statement.

"If he has, he would know that Alabamians are decent, hard working, creative people." *

Slightly rearranged. Governor points out that there is a common link between us. That an oz company (which was smart in pointing out) employees 1000 Alabamians. Then goes on to boost his people’s virtues. SO he obviously thought before he spoke as he knew it would end up in print. It's mainly positives through out for both sides.

Let's look at Rudds

*"I think Robin Williams should go and spend a bit of time in Alabama before he frames comments about anyone being particularly redneck."*

I disagree about this comment being smart. It's a backhanded comment and a bad attempt at humor, not that I care about alabama's feelings. But we do have Aussie companies over there and it probably helps when the PM isn't suggesting your workers chew a lot of corn and stare at their cousins with bedroom eyes. 
Rudd is a man that needs prepared answers before he opens his mouth. (We saw an example on Q&A with the kids). The statement above does not really take in to account how it will be viewed once in print. Don't get me wrong it's a storm in a teacup. But Rudd comes out looking worse then anyone. It's not the one line though; it’s a series of things that start adding up. It's more the image our PM portrays that I get concerned about. He has already offsided the Chinese and had to try and make amends.

Williams is a comedian with a case of verbal diarrhea. He said the exact same thing over here while on tour to Aussie applause. 
If the US president took any notice of what Aussie comedians say about them we would be nuked into the ground by now.




> I'm surprised you suggest* ignore*. That's something you don't practice what you preach



How can you say that whiskers I ignored your article and your feelings didn't I

Yeah I defend opinions (which is useless really), but I never really cared that much about people taking the piss out of me. There is a program for it called HTFU to help brush off criticism.



> namrog Don't you people have anything better to do . or talk about.
> 
> This is a typical GG type of redneck thread about absolutely nothing !!
> 
> Have a safe Easter everyone ..........




No trading is boring and I'm tired. I'm reduced to inane comments on stupid subjects to stay awake. Credit to all for keeping my eyes open to post on an issue I had a smidgen of interest in.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (2 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*

My contacts in Washington tell me that ole Wheelchair has leaned on the Hollywood Democrats to make Robin Williams apologise to Rudd.

It seems to have worked.

One joker apologising to another.

It must be a first.

http://www.news.com.au/entertainmen...ver-redneck-jibe/story-e6frfmqi-1225848770895



> COMEDIAN Robin Williams has apologised to Kevin Rudd and offered to take him to a strip club next time the PM visits the US.
> 
> Williams yesterday laughed off the controversy after he dubbed Aussies "English rednecks" on US TV, but said he was sorry.




Mr. Williams offer to take Mr.Rudd to a strip club is exceedingly generous, given that drunks in clubs of that ilk often end up in trouble with the girls or the bouncers.

What a kind man Robin Williams is to make the offer.

This demands a longwinded answer from Mr.Rudd.

gg


----------



## WaveSurfer (2 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> ....Mr. Williams offer to take Mr.Rudd to a strip club is exceedingly generous, given that drunks in clubs of that ilk often end up in trouble with the girls or the bouncers......





Hahaha. On ya Robin. Funny, funny dude.


----------



## wayneL (2 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*



WaveSurfer said:


> Hahaha. On ya Robin. Funny, funny dude.




Hahahah Williams wins by TKO.... brilliant. 

Whiskers,

For someone purportedly trained in conflict resolution, you sure can be:


biased
irritating
ergo, conflict escalating


----------



## Solly (2 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> My contacts in Washington tell me that ole Wheelchair has leaned on the Hollywood Democrats to make Robin Williams apologise to Rudd.
> 
> It seems to have worked.
> 
> ...




gg, I reckon a good dose of 'detailed programmatic specificity' should do the trick.


----------



## snowking (2 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*



Whiskers said:


> Yeah.
> 
> PS: re earlier comment, Rudd is an idiot... I'd call him a few things but not an idiot. He's a very astute political (psychological) operator. Never under estimate your enemy.




Well 6 months ago I would have agreed, but to drag himself into something a comedian said doesn't really represent an intellectual figure.

Next thing he will be doing is trying to make a joke about this website, http://www.nothinglikeaustralia.net/, or will he just get Conroy to block it under the filter


----------



## Timmy (2 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*

I think what Williams said was a bit unfair.  I mean, has he even been to Queensland?  Lovely people, give you the shirt off their back (if own/wearing one etc.).

But KRudd dissing the people of Alabama is not on.  Maybe KRudd is a bit, understandably, oversensitive on the issue.

Anyway ... in order to beat Gumby to it, here is Lynyrd Skynyrd:


----------



## WaveSurfer (2 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*



Timmy said:


> ...Anyway ... in order to beat Gumby to it, here is Lynryd Skynrd:




Turn it UP!


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (2 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*



tigerboi said:


> deleted




Fair shake of the b-double mate. I was about to commiserate with you on another thread about slow and bad drivers boxing you in the outside lane and now you dump on me. 

I was in fact in the prison library at "The Creek" here at Stuart awaiting release for unpaid parking fines and not wearing a bicycle helmet and had just been allowed on by a fellow inmate "fingers" who is in for computer fraud and gbh, when I had a chance to sign in.

I was so taken by your tale of woe in your truck that I was going to give you the solution, but now I won't.

This thread is important as it goes to the heart of our democracy, whether or whether not our PM can or cannot make a complete dill of himself when being interviewed by a near complete dill like Eddie Maguire.

gg


----------



## Boyou (4 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*

"This thread is important as it goes to the heart of our democracy, whether or whether not our PM can or cannot make a complete dill of himself when being interviewed by a near complete dill like Eddie Maguire."

No ..No ..No..This thread goes to the heart of G G..Rudd bashing and Pot Stirring!! 

You have done it again, maestro..April Fools day indeed!!


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (4 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*



Boyou said:


> "This thread is important as it goes to the heart of our democracy, whether or whether not our PM can or cannot make a complete dill of himself when being interviewed by a near complete dill like Eddie Maguire."
> 
> No ..No ..No..This thread goes to the heart of G G..Rudd bashing and Pot Stirring!!
> 
> You have done it again, maestro..April Fools day indeed!!




Boyou, I have absolutely nothing against Kevin Rudd. I actually once met him at a WOW Store when he was having a new battery fitted. He must be highly intelligent as there was not much room to fit an aa in to the front lobe of his brain. 
And there was no blood.

gg


----------



## noco (5 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Now that the ETS has become the modern TITANIC, our illustrious Prime Minister and Ms Wrong have shifted 154  useless ETS bureaurcrates to help sort out the HOME INSULATION DEBACLE, but wait for it, this number is to be increased to 300 + at a cost of some $300,000 + each. How they work out that costs is beyond me.

That's the tax payers money at work. What a DUDD of a Prime Minister this counrty has.


----------



## Happy (5 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noco said:


> ...
> What a DUDD of a Prime Minister this counrty has.




Happy to see more unhappy people about the way our country is run.

Have my fear that coming election will give benefit of the doubt to current leaders, but maybe just maybe not.


----------



## noco (8 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Isn't it  amzing, Obama can't come to Australia because he had to finalize his health plan with the Senate. So Rudd takes it as a snub from Obama.

Rudd is  invited to a high level Nuclear summit  in Washington ( normally Rudd would be there come hell or high water) but decides to snub Obama with the lame excuse he has to finalize HIS Health Plan with the states at the COAG meeting. 

What I mean to say is, is there a rift between Obama and Rudd. Are things not as rosie as we are led to believe. Has he out worn his welcome with other world leaders and can't face them or is TIT for TAT? Maybe he is tired of travelling.

I say give him a one way ticket Sibera or China. Not far enough away unfortunately.


----------



## Whiskers (8 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*



Whiskers said:


> Fair suck of the sav there fellas!




Ok... back to this mole hill, er mountain, in some people's minds.



wayneL said:


> Hahahah Williams wins by TKO.... brilliant.
> 
> Whiskers,
> 
> ...




But what law says I have to 'resolve conflict' all the time. 

If you guys can have a bit of fun, so can I eh! :

Oh, and by the way, conflict resolution is a two way street. It helps if you can get emotionally detached from your opinion and try to stand in the other persons shoes.



Timmy said:


> I think what Williams said was a bit unfair.  I mean, has he even been to Queensland?  Lovely people, give you the shirt off their back (if own/wearing one etc.).
> 
> But KRudd dissing the people of Alabama is not on.  *Maybe KRudd is a bit, understandably, oversensitive on the issue.*




Timmy was the only one to even touch on the point I was trying to make.

As I said earlier I'm not defending Rudd, just trying to get a bit of "proportion", (thanks for that word Julia) over why peopled reacted the way they did on this issue, starting with Rudd then why some here get so worked up trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

Lucky some of you people don't have your finger on the nuke button, if Rudd or my critique of you opinion gets you worked up so much, heaven help us, err you!  

Just to repeat guys, fair suck of the sav, this one is a mole hill by any comparrison.

http://alldownunder.com/oz-u/slang/phrase1.htm


----------



## wayneL (8 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*



Whiskers said:


> Ok... back to this mole hill, er mountain, in some people's minds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Refer to Clause 6,789, Section 678,098, subsection z of the Fabian Socialism by Gradualism Act 1922;

It states (in layman's terms) that anyone participating in the social pseudosciences  hereby forfeits any right to a sense of humour and must invoke a ludicrous and humourless political correctness in all subsequent dealings with normal humans. Furthermore, any attempt at humour by the normal populace must be prosecuted to the full extent of, and inappropriately utilizing the anti vilification act of "19Hawke/Keating Fabian Socialism by stealth while tricking the plebs into thinking we're centrist Act".

Having a bit of fun is strictly against the rules.



> Oh, and by the way, conflict resolution is a two way street. It helps if you can get emotionally detached from your opinion and try to stand in the other persons shoes.




Yeah, but a conflict resoluter is a ref, not a participant... and expected to follow their own advice.


----------



## Wysiwyg (8 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noco said:


> What a DUDD of a Prime Minister this counrty has.




Makes me wonder how much of Prime Minister Rudd's decision making is reactionary. Additionally, and not on any bashing bandwagon, my nostrils detect a hint of lemon in ol' Kevs ... um  personality. 

p.s. 
Does anyone know when the next round of economic stimulus packages begin?


----------



## -Bevo- (8 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Wysiwyg said:


> p.s.
> Does anyone know when the next round of economic stimulus packages begin?




Rudds been up here in Townsville splashing some money around.

*Rudd promises PET scanner and more*

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2010/04/07/128455_news.html

funny liberals only just held herbert at last election, PET scanner been on the want list here for awhile.


----------



## noco (8 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

The little t^*d flew in and out of Townsville yesterday trying to buy votes with his mate Mooney. Promised a PET scanner he says may take 1-2 years. The consenses of opinion is more like 4 years. The Mater Hospital, with Federal Government assistance would have had one here in 6 months.

He also tried to con us with his Solar energy base load power. States it will reduce our power bills by 40%. LOL. If that is not vote catching, you could have fooled me.


----------



## Whiskers (8 April 2010)

*Re: Rudd Alabama Slur*



wayneL said:


> Refer to Clause 6,789, Section 678,098, subsection z of the Fabian Socialism by Gradualism Act 1922;
> 
> It states (in layman's terms) that anyone participating in the social pseudosciences  hereby forfeits any right to a sense of humour and must invoke a ludicrous and humourless political correctness in all subsequent dealings with normal humans. Furthermore, any attempt at humour by the normal populace must be prosecuted to the full extent of, and inappropriately utilizing the anti vilification act of "19Hawke/Keating Fabian Socialism by stealth while tricking the plebs into thinking we're centrist Act".
> 
> Having a bit of fun is strictly against the rules.






lol, I'll take your word for that.


----------



## jancha (9 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I just want to put my hand up & say i didn't vote for Rudd so it's not my fault!!
and for all that did SHAME SHAME SHAME.
I think the reason why we have such a large number of boat people entering in to Aust waters is that once processed they can vote for their beloved leader. 
Based on his past performance i cant see anyone else voting for him except the asylum seekers so come next election and at the rate of in coming boat people i'd say it could be rather close call.


----------



## noco (9 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



jancha said:


> I just want to put my hand up & say i didn't vote for Rudd so it's not my fault!!
> and for all that did SHAME SHAME SHAME.
> I think the reason why we have such a large number of boat people entering in to Aust waters is that once processed they can vote for their beloved leader.
> Based on his past performance i cant see anyone else voting for him except the asylum seekers so come next election and at the rate of in coming boat people i'd say it could be rather close call.




The latest news from SKY NEWS this morning is there are 4000 asylum seekers ready to set sail from Indonesia to Australia.

Good onya Kevvie. Keepim comin and you will soon s^*t in your own nest.


----------



## jancha (9 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noco said:


> The latest news from SKY NEWS this morning is there are 4000 asylum seekers ready to set sail from Indonesia to Australia.
> 
> Good onya Kevvie. Keepim comin and you will soon s^*t in your own nest.




Looks like more potential voters for the Rudd Government.
The way they're flocking here he'll have a landslide victory next election


----------



## noco (9 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Rudd says to Tony Abbott and the states, "work with me on the hospital system".

The Labor Premier of Victoria, John Brumby offers an alternative scheme and KRudd says, "no no no you will do it my way or will take it to  a referendum".

What chance has Tony Abbott got of making any suggestion to this pig headed Prime MInister of ours? Answer--------- ZERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Julia (9 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

It seems Mr Rudd has finally woken up to the political damage he is incurring with the exponentially increasing boat arrivals.  No new asylum claims will be processed for people from Afghanistan and Sri Lanka.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8610679.stm


----------



## todster (9 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

New car sales surge in March!
Up 25% from same time last year!
352 higher than previous record set in 2007


----------



## todster (9 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Employer confidence soars in W.A
Recruitment agency says 50% of WA employers will employ more permanent staff in the next 3 months.
Confidence has risen 5.5% the highest since September 2008


----------



## jancha (9 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



todster said:


> Employer confidence soars in W.A
> Recruitment agency says 50% of WA employers will employ more permanent staff in the next 3 months.
> Confidence has risen 5.5% the highest since September 2008




Thank goodness for the mining industry and bargain priced cars.


----------



## todster (9 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



jancha said:


> Thank goodness for the mining industry and bargain priced cars.




And living in the golden state


----------



## trainspotter (9 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> It seems Mr Rudd has finally woken up to the political damage he is incurring with the exponentially increasing boat arrivals.  No new asylum claims will be processed for people from Afghanistan and Sri Lanka.
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8610679.stm




More of the same here Julia

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/pol...s-door-on-claims/story-e6frgczf-1225851808797

It appears Herr Rudd can hear the hounds baying for blood.


----------



## -Bevo- (10 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

*Kevin Rudd raids future funds *

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/kevin-rudd-raids-future-funds/story-e6frgczf-1225851598579

After reading all the angry comments about this story and others plus people ive spoken too who now hate Krudd as much as I do I just wonder how the hell is Krudd leading in the polls, who are they polling the Asylum seekers.


----------



## trainspotter (10 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Yeppers -Bevo- .... Will the person who voted for this three ring circus please stand up !


----------



## noco (10 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I am concerned about the Rudd proposed health reform.

He keeps saying to the states and the opposition, " work with me to secure a better haelth system for all Australians". It is very obvious to many, Rudd wants his own way and if he does not get it, threatens to go to a referendum.

Actually, it my beleif that he is hell bent on a referendum to obtain the outcome he wants and is not interested in any other proposals form within or without. It is a way of grabing some of the states GST and just maybe he might retain some to help pay off the bad debt. It will also be the start of other state take overs to gain control of all income. 

I can imagine how his tricky question will read and could go something like the following:-

* Do you want health reform?  90% will answer YES.
* Would you prefer an improved hospital sytem? 90% will answer YES.
* Would you like to see more hospital beds,doctors and nurses? 90% will answer yes.
* Would like to see shorter waiting times for surgery. 90% will answer YES.

Bingo! Kevvie will say I have a mandate.

What he want ask you is:-

* Do you agree the way it will be funded?
* Are happy with 30% of the GST being taken from the states?
* Will you be happy if I pass the buck on to the states if it does not work?

OH BOY, just watch what this fraudster will get up to!!!


----------



## Julia (10 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Does anyone have any idea what will happen if all the States except Victoria agree to Mr Rudd's proposal?
I gather Ms Kenneally in NSW is also unwilling to commit that State, and is insisting that the Henry Tax Review be released before the Premiers are required to make a commitment on health.
Sounds very reasonable.

Rudd's obstinate "agree with me, and agree now" is reminiscent of the urgency which applied to the ETS which just had to be all legislated before Copenhagen.

Good to see at least two of the Premiers are showing some resistance to his bullying.


----------



## nioka (10 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> Yeppers -Bevo- .... Will the person who voted for this three ring circus please stand up !




I'm one of the many and not sorry. Howard had gone over the top and couldn't be trusted. Evidently a lot of people thought the same way. I may have voted for Turnbull next time but I think Abbot is a sleeze bag that I would not trust so it looks as though Rudd gets my vote again.


----------



## todster (10 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> Does anyone have any idea what will happen if all the States except Victoria agree to Mr Rudd's proposal?
> I gather Ms Kenneally in NSW is also unwilling to commit that State, and is insisting that the Henry Tax Review be released before the Premiers are required to make a commitment on health.
> Sounds very reasonable.
> 
> ...





Rudd just wants to win the next election.
If he can keep the focus on health he might even pick up an extra seat.
He has already started flying around the country while the monk is on his pushy in the country side.
Are there any marginal seats on the mad monks journey?


----------



## Julia (10 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



todster said:


> Rudd just wants to win the next election.
> If he can keep the focus on health he might even pick up an extra seat.
> He has already started flying around the country while the monk is on his pushy in the country side.
> Are there any marginal seats on the mad monks journey?



Todster, the above doesn't actually respond to my previous post, so I'm not sure why you've quoted what I said to express what we all know, i.e. that Rudd wants to win the election, and that Tony Abbott is cycling round the country.

I'd genuinely like to know whether the non-agreement of, say, Victoria and NSW to the health 'reforms' will be enough for the Prime Minister to claim he has to go to a referendum.

And a further question about the protocols involved in a referendum:
Can Mr Rudd word this as he chooses, e.g. as Noco outlined earlier
"*Do you want to see reforms to improve the health system?"*
Is there any requirement for the Opposition to approve the wording?
Fairly obviously if the wording was as above, he will receive about a 100% positive response.


----------



## noco (10 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> Todster, the above doesn't actually respond to my previous post, so I'm not sure why you've quoted what I said to express what we all know, i.e. that Rudd wants to win the election, and that Tony Abbott is cycling round the country.
> 
> I'd genuinely like to know whether the non-agreement of, say, Victoria and NSW to the health 'reforms' will be enough for the Prime Minister to claim he has to go to a referendum.
> 
> ...




Julia, I'm not sure where the opposition stands when it comes to wording a referendum. If Rudd does try to con the Australian public with his trickery, the only thing the opposition can do is point out to the public the facts before they consider their vote.

While he has been in deep poo this week with his health reform, he has diverted public attention once again with his announcement on the suspension of  processing Afghan and Sri Lankin refugees. He is a bloody master at it and people fall for it every time. He treats the public like school children. If the kid is in a tantrum because it can't get it's own way, give him/her a lollie to take his/her mind away from the problem.


----------



## Wysiwyg (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



pilots said:


> Did you see last night the Sunday show about the  schools Krudd has built, what a **** up that has turned out to be, a canteen that is a unusable  garage that cost $8000k.




I saw that. The brick .... house for 600k (??) too. Contractors have always loved government initiatives.


----------



## trainspotter (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



nioka said:


> I'm one of the many and not sorry. Howard had gone over the top and couldn't be trusted. Evidently a lot of people thought the same way. I may have voted for Turnbull next time but I think Abbot is a sleeze bag that I would not trust so it looks as though Rudd gets my vote again.




I admire a person who has the intestinal fortitude to come out and really say what he thinks. Don't hold back next time !  It will be interesting to see when we perform a score check on Herr Rudds promises and the policy failures that are coming back to bite him in the posterior. EPIC FAIL would be my guess. Type the words "shambles" and "Rudd" into google and await the tsunami of responses.


----------



## steptoe88 (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



nioka said:


> I'm one of the many and not sorry. Howard had gone over the top and couldn't be trusted. Evidently a lot of people thought the same way. I may have voted for Turnbull next time but I think Abbot is a sleeze bag that I would not trust so it looks as though Rudd gets my vote again.




Sleaze bag? thats how your decisions are made?
 whaever happened to party politics?
 it's not about one person,oh and how much debt was it that Mr Howard got us into?
I seem to remember a different scenario, wasnt it a surplus? 
I'd think a little harder than deciding my vote on who's pedalling or wearing speedo's.


----------



## trainspotter (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

New "How to vote Labor" card being distributed in the burbs where the $900.00 x 3 stimulus package did the greater good for all. Could be a landslide. Apologies to Rick Astley.


----------



## Wysiwyg (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Pearls of wisdom DOWN there at e.


----------



## Calliope (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

If you are sick in hospital, take heart. The Rudd and Roxon travelling circus will be visiting you soon. While he cheers you up with spin she nods approval.


----------



## Calliope (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Wysiwyg said:


> I saw that. The brick .... house for 600k (??) too. Contractors have always loved government initiatives.




One bloke called the BER scheme... Builders Early Retirement. It has always been so. Costs are inflated to match the taxpayer funds available. Gillard couldn't care less. She is quite pleased with herself that she has managed to waste so much money so quickly, and "created jobs" and "stopped a recession".


----------



## gav (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

*Rudd's $3.2bn health fix favours Labor seats *

http://www.news.com.au/national/rud...ours-labor-seats/story-e6frfkvr-1225850147334

_"According to figures from the federal Department of Health and Ageing, Labor electorates have been allocated $1.83bn, or 72.6 per cent, of the $2.52bn in health fund investments designated for a specific location."_


*Higher education fund favours ALP seats*

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/pol...avours-alp-seats/story-e6frgczf-1225850682447

_"An analysis by The Australian of $1.5 billion in allocations from the Education Investment Fund shows Labor seats have received $1.276bn or 84 per cent of spending from the first two funding rounds of the "nation-building" program controlled by Education Minister Julia Gillard."_


How the hell can this be allowed?


----------



## trainspotter (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

*Pork Barrel *- is a derogatory term referring to appropriation of government spending for localized projects secured solely or primarily to bring money to a representative's district and to gain votes at the next election.


----------



## -Bevo- (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

*Kevin Rudd invited asylum-seeker boats to Australia, says people smuggler*
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ople-smuggler/comments-e6freon6-1225852441131

Try tell Krudd that, love the bashing he's taking in the comments section.
Way to go Krudd


----------



## noco (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> One bloke called the BER scheme... Builders Early Retirement. It has always been so. Costs are inflated to match the taxpayer funds available. Gillard couldn't care less. She is quite pleased with herself that she has managed to waste so much money so quickly, and "created jobs" and "stopped a recession".




Julia Gillard is on Sky News ATM has stated  she is about to spend $14,000,000 of tax payers money to look into the rorts in her BER debacle to sort out "MINOR PROBLEMS". Good onya Julia for admitting you have cocked up another Labor initiative.You should hang your head in shame.


----------



## jancha (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



nioka said:


> I'm one of the many and not sorry. Howard had gone over the top and couldn't be trusted. Evidently a lot of people thought the same way. I may have voted for Turnbull next time but I think Abbot is a sleeze bag that I would not trust so it looks as though Rudd gets my vote again.




Shame shame shame!!
You should be sorry. I'd say there'd be many that are if they're honest with themselves.
Do you honestly believe that the Howard government could have stuffed up and wasted as much of tax payers money as Rudd?
How long was Howard in government? I would say a lot of people wanted a change (thought the grass was greener on the other side & hello hello when they got there grass had been eaten and it had turned to s...).
Obviously he handed you a lollie last election nioka.


----------



## nioka (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



jancha said:


> Shame shame shame!!
> Obviously he handed you a lollie last election nioka.




I don't have a sweet tooth. Nor do I agree with everything that Rudd has done. However Australia has weathered the crisis better than most countries. I doubt that it would have done much better under Howard. 

Howard did not inspire my confidence. What did he do?. I give him credit for handling the illegal migrants problem and I agree that Rudd has not been tough enough there. Apart from that his big achievements were;

1. The GST (after saying it was dead).
2. He disarmed the honest population and armed the criminals. (This made it unsafe in your own home.)
3. Failed to finance infrastructure in the good years.
4. Cashed in on the financial structure established by Keating.
5. Outstayed his welcome.


----------



## todster (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



jancha said:


> Shame shame shame!!
> You should be sorry. I'd say there'd be many that are if they're honest with themselves.
> Do you honestly believe that the Howard government could have stuffed up and wasted as much of tax payers money as Rudd?
> How long was Howard in government? I would say a lot of people wanted a change (thought the grass was greener on the other side & hello hello when they got there grass had been eaten and it had turned to s...).
> Obviously he handed you a lollie last election nioka.





I have a job still,earning real good dollars none of my friends are unemployed.
Work front in W.A looks good in my industry for the next 5 odd years at least.
Does anyone know how many of these school construction jobs are happening and what percentage are bungled and how much peoples ranting is over a couple of negative reports in rags and Mike Munroe style current affairs shows.
Anyone would think the world is going to end with the arrival of a couple of thousand Refos or illegals
The future looks good from here regardless of which clown show runs the country.
Besides banning guns what did John Winston Howard do in his first term i really cant remember.
Sorry for continued bad grammar.


----------



## jancha (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



todster said:


> I have a job still,earning real good dollars none of my friends are unemployed.
> Work front in W.A looks good in my industry for the next 5 odd years at least.
> Does anyone know how many of these school construction jobs are happening and what percentage are bungled and how much peoples ranting is over a couple of negative reports in rags and Mike Munroe style current affairs shows.
> Anyone would think the world is going to end with the arrival of a couple of thousand Refos or illegals
> ...




Saying the future looks good is basically due to our Mineral wealth & demand for it.
 To basically say that any clown can run the country is a silly statement to make.
Just because your fortunate enough to have funds doesn't mean you throw it around without giving thoughts to the consequences.
We're not talking about the world coming to an end or pacifically just boat people but just in general in what the present government has achieved without any major stuff ups and wasted funds.
I think most people know the answer to that.


----------



## Trembling Hand (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



nioka said:


> 1. The GST (after saying it was dead).




Exactly what is wrong with a broad based consumption tax? this argument is dead. A GST is exactly what we need to pay for expenditure while allowing growth without more overly restrictive & growth killing income/business taxes.

What century have I just stumbled into?


----------



## nioka (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Trembling Hand said:


> Exactly what is wrong with a broad based consumption tax? this argument is dead. A GST is exactly what we need to pay for expenditure while allowing growth without more overly restrictive & growth enabling income/business taxes.
> 
> What century have I just stumbled into?




I never disputed the GST as a tax. It was a example of Howards trustworthiness. He said it was a dead duck, did he tell the truth or was it another case of "children overboard".


----------



## Trembling Hand (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



nioka said:


> I never disputed the GST as a tax. It was a example of Howards trustworthiness. He said it was a dead duck, did he tell the truth or was it another case of "children overboard".




Fair enough. But to me I don't mind a pollie changing their mind from time to time. There is dishonesty, children overboard, then there is just good times to seize the moment and changes ones mind, GST .


----------



## todster (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



nioka said:


> I never disputed the GST as a tax. It was a example of Howards trustworthiness. He said it was a dead duck, did he tell the truth or was it another case of "children overboard".




Weapons of Mass Destruction


----------



## nioka (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



todster said:


> Weapons of Mass Destruction




Yes. and  Being too pally with George Bush which meant going along with the weapons of mass destruction.


----------



## trainspotter (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Don't forget with the introduction of the GST sales tax went from 22% on some items to a flat 10%. Oh yeah ..... under the GST tax rates went from 43 cents in the dollar to 30 cents in the dollar for income 50k or less, CGT was reduced and the country was running at a SURPLUS under John Howard and the GST .... just terrible !


----------



## jancha (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



nioka said:


> I don't have a sweet tooth. Nor do I agree with everything that Rudd has done. However Australia has weathered the crisis better than most countries. I doubt that it would have done much better under Howard.
> 
> Howard did not inspire my confidence. What did he do?. I give him credit for handling the illegal migrants problem and I agree that Rudd has not been tough enough there. Apart from that his big achievements were;
> 
> ...




 Nevermind about the GST and the rest of it.
Just honestly tell me do you think the Howard government or any other pass goverment could possible get so many things wrong & cost us so dearly for our generations to come?
Rudd has only been in office for a short period in comparison to Howard.
Look at what he's done so far.
I'd hate to see your list of stuff ups & dislikes for the same time period with the Rudd government. .


----------



## todster (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



jancha said:


> Nevermind about the GST and the rest of it.
> Just honestly tell me do you think the Howard government or any other pass goverment could possible get so many things wrong & cost us so dearly for our generations to come?
> Rudd has only been in office for a short period in comparison to Howard.
> Look at what he's done so far.
> I'd hate to see your list of stuff ups & dislikes for the same time period with the Rudd government. .




Do you think Rudd will lose his seat like John,funny old game politics


----------



## steptoe88 (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

all politicians play havoc with the truth, they tell us what we want to hear or what they assume we'll feel warm and cozy with, but this mob of fools just wastes as much as they can find and then some, were in so much debt our great grandchildren will be paying just the interest on the debts, oh but wait if keving and his team just tax us a bit more it might make it easy on those generations, working families will definitely be working, working for the rest of thier lives to pay down his foolish spending, I dont mind schools getting new facilities, but at what cost?
 without any real checks and balances?
anyone who would re vote this charlatan into office for another round of pork barreling and free gifting to anyone with a hand outstretched deserves what they will get.
 watching him prance about in his hospital gown as though he's singlehandedly going to fix everything makes me feel ill, but god forbid if i got sick and someone like him were there i'd be a dead duck, I have no respect for him or his party, after what weve been subjected to since he was voted in,


----------



## nioka (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> the country was running at a SURPLUS under John Howard and the GST




How much was "the country" running at a surplus. The government budget maybe but we sold the farm to get the illusionary surplus. Our overall debt increased under Howard and Costello more that at any other time in history.
We dug a big hole in the ground to fund the finances. We now make nothing, own nothing and will one day dig that hole so deep we will mirror Christmas Island and disappear in the hole.


----------



## noco (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



nioka said:


> I don't have a sweet tooth. Nor do I agree with everything that Rudd has done. However Australia has weathered the crisis better than most countries. I doubt that it would have done much better under Howard.
> 
> Howard did not inspire my confidence. What did he do?. I give him credit for handling the illegal migrants problem and I agree that Rudd has not been tough enough there. Apart from that his big achievements were;
> 
> ...




You cannot deny the Labor Party were left a very healthy base to weather the financial crisis but have gone overboard with their stimulas package which has turned out, in many cases, to be a terrible over spend and waste.IMHO Howard/Costello could have implimented a package at half the cost with far more efficiency just as they did during the Asian crises without all the hoo ha and Rudd type spin.

If you go back on history, you  will find Howard said no GST in that particular term. Keating wanted to introduce a GST and Hawke would not let him fearing a backlash from the public (no guts, no glory). Hansard will reveal the Labor were going to wind back the GST. Once again (no guts, no glory) and now Krudd wants to take away 30% for hospital reform which is going to be another gigantic stuff up like the BER, the Home Insulation Program, fuel watch, grogery watch and the ETS. Did I miss any?

What's wrong with the GST any way? You were once paying a hidden sales tax of 20% then raised by Keating to 25% on motor vehicles. 22.5% on a can of coco coala. 33.3% on toilet paper and stationary. 22.5 % on white goods.

When the GST was introduced at a flat rate of 10% all the hidden sales tax was removed. Lots of things became cheaper including motor vehicles. The Labor states were supposed to remove their  state taxes like stamp duty etc. They did not play the game and some of them still maintain those taxes even today.

Most of the infrastucture was a state responsibilty and  normally applied for Federal Government assistance. Howard did a lot of good without all the Rudd type spin and media help. we have had no new power stations and dams built in the past 25 years. How is Rudd going to cater for his big Austarlia of 36 million by 204O? 

Keating, in his own  admission almost turned Australia into a "BANANA REPUBLIC" and left a $90 billion debt for Howard/ Costello to pay back. During Howard's first couple of terms in Government he was hamstrung with such debt that many sacrifices had to be made and  history will repeat it's self when Rudd eventually gets kicked out.

Hey nioka you missed the "children over board and the wheat scandal".
The Labor hacks generally throw that in for good measure. My oh my your memory is letting you down badly.

I'll bet many who voted for RUDD in 2007 wish in hind site, they had put Howard back in.


----------



## trainspotter (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Australia has come a long way since the 1980s when Lee Kuan Yew described us as the “poor white trash of Asia”. Australia has survived the global financial crisis thanks much more to the reforms of previous governments than to the spending spree of the current one. The Hawke/Keating Governments introduced financial deregulation, tariff reform and the beginnings of privatisation and labour market reform. The Howard Government enshrined the independence of the Reserve Bank, *consolidated hard-won budget surpluses*, reformed the indirect tax system to cut direct taxes, began welfare reform, concluded the US free trade agreement and deepened privatisation and labour market reform. As for selling the farm?? What farm would that be Nioka? We have not manufactured anything of value in this country for many years now and long before Costello & Howard were on the scene. A very simplistic approach there old chap. Tut tut.


----------



## Calliope (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



nioka said:


> Yes. and  Being too pally with George Bush which meant going along with the weapons of mass destruction.




The Howard Haters are still having withdrawal symptoms. They are having trouble switching their hate to Rudd. For all his broken promises, lies and deceit, he is still lovable in their eyes.


----------



## trainspotter (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

A nice little graph to remind oneself of the debt burden we now have on every man, woman and child in Australia .... thnak you Mr Rudd and your stimulus packages ! So far, the Rudd Government has made little contribution, if any, to serious reform. There have been some worthy symbolic gestures such as the Indigenous apology and the ratification of the Kyoto Protocol. In some areas, the Government has continued the reforms of its predecessor: the Northern Territory intervention has been “normalised” and a weaker version of welfare reform extended into the rest of the Territory; work is continuing on a national schools curriculum and more school performance data is now available to the public. The pension age has been increased although the Government is in no rush to have this reform implemented. Even so, the Rudd Government’s main economic legacy has been to roll back the workplace reforms of the past two governments and to blow the Howard Government’s painstakingly achieved surplus.


----------



## moXJO (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



todster said:


> I have a job still,earning real good dollars none of my friends are unemployed.
> Work front in W.A looks good in my industry for the next 5 odd years at least.
> Does anyone know how many of these school construction jobs are happening and what percentage are bungled and how much peoples ranting is over a couple of negative reports in rags and Mike Munroe style current affairs shows.
> Anyone would think the world is going to end with the arrival of a couple of thousand Refos or illegals
> ...




Don't libs run WA state


----------



## sails (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



nioka said:


> How much was "the country" running at a surplus. The government budget maybe but we sold the farm to get the illusionary surplus....



hmmm - it wasn't illusionary money that Rudd distributed so freely.  He got it from somewhere real...


----------



## todster (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



moXJO said:


> Don't libs run WA state




WAs waiting for that one            touche


----------



## Julia (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Trembling Hand said:


> Fair enough. But to me I don't mind a pollie changing their mind from time to time. There is dishonesty, children overboard, then there is just good times to seize the moment and changes ones mind, GST .



And let's remember that John Howard actually clearly went to the election saying he would introduce a 10% GST.   He was voted in categorically with that as part of his platform.  That's quite different from a politician assuring the electorate they will not do something pre-election and then changing their minds *once they have been voted in*.

There was a retired senior bureaucrat on Radio National this morning very critical indeed of Rudd's hospital plan.  He says it's a disaster.  Further says that the Henry Tax Review is not being released by the government because it almost certainly recommends increased taxes to pay for the required improvements to the health system.

He suggested most Australians will accept that health is becoming more expensive and that it simply has to be paid for.  He thinks the GST should be increased, though doesn't think it will happen.

I think, yes, most Australians would recognise the need for more tax to fix the ailing health system * if we were not every single day witnessing more and more wasting of our tax dollars on 'stimulus' programmes designed much more to make the government look good, than to actually do any real good.*
(In my local school, they'd much rather have had some basic repairs done around the school, new toilet block, functioning drinking fountains, extended library, than the overpriced shade structure in an area that really didn't need it.)

And then there's the ludicrous situation whereby the Reserve Bank is putting up interest rates in order to pull back the over-stimulated economy!!



trainspotter said:


> Don't forget with the introduction of the GST sales tax went from 22% on some items to a flat 10%. Oh yeah ..... under the GST tax rates went from 43 cents in the dollar to 30 cents in the dollar for income 50k or less, CGT was reduced and the country was running at a SURPLUS under John Howard and the GST .... just terrible !



Question:  if the Feds are going to take part of the GST that has been going to the States, may we reasonably expect the re-introduction of some of these sales taxes etc?




noco said:


> Most of the infrastucture was a state responsibilty and  normally applied for Federal Government assistance. Howard did a lot of good without all the Rudd type spin and media help. we have had no new power stations and dams built in the past 25 years. How is Rudd going to cater for his big Austarlia of 36 million by 204O?



That's a good point, that the States, certainly Queensland, has been immensely neglectful of keeping infrastructure up.


----------



## Bolle (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> A
> Question:  if the Feds are going to take part of the GST that has been going to the States, may we reasonably expect the re-introduction of some of these sales taxes etc?




good question!!  

I live in Vic so i agree with Brumby, and i'm not keen to have to suddenly start paying more tax so that i can watch our already adequate health system get downgraded.  (I'm still pished that we have to keep paying stamp duties here though, that's just rude.)

Honestly, my household already pays a shedload of tax, and we have private health cover as well.  Which is fine, because we get great service here.  But if i have to start paying even more darn taxes so that the local level of service can either stay the same (or worse, be downgraded) then i'm going to be severely put out.  I have no confidence whatsoever in this government.  They have cocked up every single scheme so far, broken things that didn't even need fixing... for heaven's sake, the gotta stay away from health.  And schools.  They have demonstrated beyond any doubt that they simply cannot handle this job.

If they need more money in taxes, i'd rather it came from an increase in household WAGES.  I haven't seen salaries rise much in the past decade or two.  (Yet property has gone up by, what, 200% or something ridiculous).  i don't mind paying SOME tax if it's being used for good purposes, but i object to being milked like a dairy cow just to watch the government pour it all down a wishing well.


----------



## Trembling Hand (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

The whole Health funding thing is just a big load of pre-election nothing.

What difference will it make if the money gets taken from the punters in tax and then services are paid for by government A or government B after it runs through a heap of bureaucracies?

There's nothing in it. No efficiencies, no radical plan to change the course of increasing demand, no introduction of technology to save time and expensive duplication. No significant extra skills or personal.

Just another Kruddism.


----------



## moXJO (12 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> And then there's the ludicrous situation whereby the Reserve Bank is putting up interest rates in order to pull back the over-stimulated economy!!
> 
> .




Yes, remember the arguments before about how governments have no effect on interest rates. Didn't someone say that labor would make rates rise, but then the media and gurus jumped in and said that isn't how it works
Funny how Labor proved em wrong in this instance.


----------



## Whiskers (13 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> Even so, the Rudd Government’s main economic legacy has been to roll back the workplace reforms of the past two governments and to blow *the Howard Government’s painstakingly achieved surplus*.




Just keeping things in a bit of proportion, the Telstra sell-off accounted for $30 billion in the late 90's and another $15 Billion in 2006 (arguably a rip-off at bargain base prices to pay back the top end of town), $45 Billion in total.

Then I think there was about another $5 Billion for the sale of Sydney Airport in 2001.

*Not sure how "painstakingly achieved" all that was.*

It's interesting how easily we tend to forget the past cos there was also bad expenditure under the howard government. One of the bigger, the Iraq war, must be near $5 Billion too... and arguably the major initial cause of the 'Boat People' asylum seeker issue/costs. 

OH and don't forget the Baby bonus debacle. Maybe more a looming social than financial debacle not putting a reasonable age limit on availibility of the payment.

However, having said that, I would (extremely) hate to see the Rudd gov start talking Asset sales to reduce debt, at least before they got a decent hold on accountability/audit of spending progams.

*Aren't the current spending debacles more pain-stakingly achieved* than Howards budget surplus.  

After all it's relatively easier to not spend and sell some assets than to spend more rather urgently, albeit to update run-down infrastructure etc.


----------



## steptoe88 (13 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

In reply to the original question, *NO!*


----------



## nioka (13 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Whiskers said:


> J I would (extremely) hate to see the Rudd gov start talking Asset sales to reduce debt,




Do we actually have anything left that could be sold.?


----------



## Timmy (13 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



nioka said:


> Do we actually have anything left that could be sold.?




Naming rights?
Googleia. :


----------



## Calliope (13 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Trembling Hand said:


> The whole Health funding thing is just a big load of pre-election nothing.
> 
> What difference will it make if the money gets taken from the punters in tax and then services are paid for by government A or government B after it runs through a heap of bureaucracies?
> 
> ...




You've put your finger on it. Rudd and the States premiers think that pouring more money into the hospitals systems is is the answer to all their health care woes. 

This has always been the case, in spite of it being obvious that the money just disappears into a bottomless pit. It doesn't change anything in the wards, where the doctors and nurses do the best than can while carrying a heavy burden of administrative excesses, waste and gross mismanagement.

Rudd would just put in another overlay of bureaucrats.


----------



## trainspotter (13 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Antractica? Could be some minerals there that could be mined for a profit?


----------



## trainspotter (13 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> Question:  if the Feds are going to take part of the GST that has been going to the States, may we reasonably expect the re-introduction of some of these sales taxes etc?




If the Rudd Guvt takes away 30% of GST Revenue from the states to fund Health promises then a good argument could be mounted by the states to reintroduce sales tax to assist in budgetary matters for the individual states concerned?

Also if a state like WA is supplying the majority of income due to mineral royalties but has the least amount of population does this mean that WA will have the best Health system or is it funding the rest of Australia Health woes?


----------



## Bushman (13 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> And then there's the ludicrous situation whereby the Reserve Bank is putting up interest rates in order to pull back the over-stimulated economy!!




Lol; don't forget the Reserve Bank raising interest rates to curb runaway house prices when Krudd opened up a Pandora's Box by allowing cashed up foreign investors on temporary visas to by residential real estate. 

The great irony is that those that will be hurt the most the the legion of first home owners who levered their futures to pursue the great Aussie dream. 

Housing affordability, insulation, BER, retail stimulus, half-cocked federalism via the health care system all delivered with that Baker evangelical smirk. Then there is pulling the nasty 'boat people' card trick straight out of the Johhny Howard 'working families' manual.

UFB really if it wasn't my tax dollars being frittered away.


----------



## Whiskers (15 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



nioka said:


> Do we actually have anything left that could be sold.?




Well, Australia Post has been mentioned in conversation a couple of times over the years, but I don't recall any serious consideration being given to it yet.

You can bet the states will be looking for more income if they loose a substantial chunk of GST. Queensland is in a bad way and trying to sell the railways even before this latest threat to their GST stream. Other states have been squealing short changed from the current system for some time, so this could be just the trigger they need to do something relatively 'unorthadox'.

Apart from that, I suppose for the states, revisiting mineral royalties might also be a consequence of any reduced GST proceeds.


----------



## Calliope (15 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

He must be getting our Kevin confused with someone else.



> The ABC website reports that O’Brien found Obama to be “quite expansive and quite genuine on what he saw as the commonality and connections” between himself and the Australian Prime Minister, “one of which was humility.”




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/pol...report-interview/story-e6frgczf-1225853985256


----------



## steptoe88 (15 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> He must be getting our Kevin confused with someone else.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/pol...report-interview/story-e6frgczf-1225853985256




Humble & Kevin are eons apart, & Kerry  in MHO has been a supporter for years, isnt it mandatory in the ABC?


----------



## Calliope (16 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Obama is a very smart cookie. He had the ABC attack dog, Kerry O'Brien eating out of his hand last night. But in character assessment he is quite naive. Rudd has certainly pulled the wool over his eyes.

His generous praise of Rudd flies in the face of what those Australians who haven't been taken in by his spin already know.

We know the real Rudd is a lying, scheming, two-faced, evil tempered bully. An "'umble man"?. Even Uriah Heep would be laughing at that one.


----------



## todster (16 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Obama is a very smart cookie. He had the ABC attack dog, Kerry O'Brien eating out of his hand last night. But in character assessment he is quite naive. Rudd has certainly pulled the wool over his eyes.
> 
> His generous praise of Rudd flies in the face of what those Australians who haven't been taken in by his spin already know.
> 
> We know the real Rudd is a lying, scheming, two-faced, evil tempered bully. An "'umble man"?. Even Uriah Heep would be laughing at that one.




Reminds me of George Bush and his "MAN of STEEL"
Invading another country on lies.                     nice


----------



## Whiskers (16 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Obama is a very smart cookie. He had the ABC attack dog, Kerry O'Brien eating out of his hand last night. But in character assessment he is quite naive. Rudd has certainly pulled the wool over his eyes.






A bit of a contradiction there isn't it!



> His generous praise of Rudd flies in the face of what those Australians who haven't been taken in by his spin already know.




But, he's a politician and the most powerful statesman in the world. What do you expect him to say 'publicly' about an allie.



> We know the real Rudd is a lying, scheming, two-faced, evil tempered bully. An "'umble man"?.




So how is this too different from most politicans? 

I think I could count he number of politicans on one hand that didn't break promises or lie and scheme or are two faced to gain power and or favors. What about the little 'deal' between Howard and Costello for the leadership transition for example. 

Evil tempered bully... show me any bully that is not evil tempered!

Isn't bullying just another name for politics for most politicans. Again, Howard was quite a bully especially in the party room and what about Abbot. What's his nic name again! 

I wonder if Rudd is holding the lead in the polls because many people see him as 'inspiring more confidence' by out-performing his counter 'attack dog'...

...or that the other attack dog hasn't put much in the way of policies out there yet and it may get down again to not a good choice, but the least worst choice for leader... keeping in mind that Howard lost the last election, Rudd didn't win it.


----------



## Calliope (16 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Whiskers said:


> :
> 
> I wonder if Rudd is holding the lead in the polls because many people see him as 'inspiring more confidence' by out-performing his counter 'attack dog'...




Yes you are confused. I did say;



> His generous praise of Rudd flies in the face of what those Australians who haven't been taken in by his spin already know




Obviously this doesn't include you.

I was impressed how much more statesman- like and mature Obama is than Rudd. He got through  the entire interview without once blaming his predecessor, which is something Rudd and his gang are incapable of . Their whole re-election strategy is based on the "blame game".


----------



## Whiskers (16 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Yes you are confused. I did say;




You didn't get it! I've highlighted it this time.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Calliope
> *Obama is a very smart cookie.* He had the ABC attack dog, Kerry O'Brien eating out of his hand last night. But in character assessment he is quite naive. Rudd has certainly pulled the wool over his eyes.







> I was impressed how much more statesman- like and mature Obama is than Rudd. He got through  the entire interview without once blaming his predecessor, which is something Rudd and his gang are incapable of . Their whole re-election strategy is based on the "blame game".




Yes Obama has won a lot of appreciation world wide for his demeanor, BUT he is not on the campaign trail talking to an Aus jorrnalist.

On the other hand, the blame game is a standard and necessary tool to some degree in politics and one that Howard for example, used very well, arguably the best at it, albeit once too often. I'd say Rudd uses that tactic because it seems to be the most successful for him in the circumstances as Howard and most others have used it before.

Calliope, mate, at the end of the day we have to look a bit deeper than the superfical persona and tactics of our politicans to the likely benifits to us and our community of electing each party... as I said before unfortunately it may come down this time to the least worst leader.

Sure we can poke fun at some of the antics they get up too, but it seems that a lot of people have made up their minds and approve or at least prefer Rudd to Abbot. 

The onus is on Abbot to produce something, preferably in the way of policy difference, to win the vote, unless Rudd makes a monumental blunder, something more considerable than has transpired so far... hence a degree of smirk on Rudds face. That's politics!


----------



## Calliope (16 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Whiskers said:


> Sure we can poke fun at some of the antics they get up too, but it seems that a lot of people have made up their minds and approve or at least prefer Rudd to Abbot.




As I said. The electors who have made up their minds are the ones who, like you, have been hoodwinked by his bribes and spin and continual use of the blame game.

He obviously inspires confidence in you. I am not as gullible. Abbott doesn't impress either but he is not running the country or draining the coffers.


----------



## Whiskers (16 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> As I said. The electors who have made up their minds are the ones who, like you, have been hoodwinked by his bribes and spin and continual use of the blame game.
> 
> He obviously inspires confidence in you. I am not as gullible. Abbott doesn't impress either but he is not running the country or draining the coffers.




You continue to make a lot of generalised assumptions.

As I have posted repeatedly, despite your assertion to the contrary, I'm not happy with how efficiently and effectively Rudd is handling the country atm.

The point I've been trying to make is simply that there are many people who ALWAYS vote along party lines and the ones that make the difference are the swinging voters of whom I am one. I think in my lifetime I've voted for probably every party at some time including Howard's libs, except maybe for the greens who have not been well represented in my electorates.

Again bribes, spin, blame games are par for the course to all politics... 

...and with an election coming up all I'm suggesting is you can make yourself unpopular by  against the current majority who perceive Rudd as inspiring more confidence than Abbot or you can get proactive politically to promote Abbots alternative policy to win over the confidence of all those hoodwinked voters. 

Since they're so easily 'hoodwinked' it should be relatively easy for Abbot (or you) to pump out some good policy and promises to get them over to his side. 

That's the positive signals I'm looking for rather than futile  at anyone you perceive as supporting Rudd. Abbot is a pretty good spin artist and blamer too, but at present he is a bit short of 'bribes' as you put it to overtake Rudd in the minds of the majority. 

I repeat again, not a very inspiring election coming up, having to pick the least worst option. 

Btw, aren't you doing a pretty good job at the 'blame game' too!


----------



## Calliope (16 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Whiskers said:


> Btw, aren't you doing a pretty good job at the 'blame game' too!




Do you think so? Maybe, but I am just an elector...not a politician.


----------



## trainspotter (16 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Moral dilemma as described by Hungry Beast

http://hungrybeast.abc.net.au/stories/things-we-think-might-be-bull****-rudd-moralising

Worth a look for comedy purposes only !


----------



## Whiskers (16 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Maybe, but I am just an elector...not a politician.




Maybe, but the same principle applies.

Do you want to be obsessed with the negatives or try to find/extract some positive better options from one of them that can better satisfy your's and the countries needs... hopefully so we can do better than the least worst option.


----------



## Calliope (16 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Whiskers said:


> Do you want to be obsessed with the negatives or try to find/extract some positive better options from one of them that can better satisfy your's and the countries needs... hopefully so we can do better than the least worst option.




Can't help you there. Anything I can do to put down Rudd is a positive for me. I will leave it to you to find your own positives.


----------



## nioka (16 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Anything I can do to put down Rudd is a positive for me.




That is the quote of the week. Was it written by one of Abbott's advisers.

Positives:
1. Australia has come through the biggest global financial crisis better than most of the develloped world under his management.
2. He does not tolerate slackers and objectionists in his parliamentary staff and he controls them with an iron fist.
3. He is a hard worker where co-workers find the pace too hard.
4. Even though he likes the Chinese people he will not be stood over by the Chinese government.
5. He has made a success of his own life,would you want someone to run the country that couldnt succeed on his own behalf.
6. He has found that the softly softly approach to illegals as required by the labor party isnt working and is prepared to do something about it.eg. Working with the Indonesian government to control the flow in Indonesia and now delaying the processing of applications from troublesome areas.

but of course you know all that, as you state you are not prepared to admit it.


----------



## Calliope (16 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I'm afraid nioka you have a strange idea of positives. 

How many of Rudd's spin doctors did it take to come up with those little gems?


----------



## trainspotter (16 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

An oldie but a goody ! - Taxpayers will fork out millions over the next few years to maintain a Holy See post in Rome for the sole aim of lobbying for Kevin Rudd’s bid for an Australian seat on the United Nations Security Council. According to Treasury estimates the cost of the new post will be an extraordinary $55,700 per week or $11 million over 4 years. Labor will spend a massive $372,000 a year just to rent a flat and office space in Rome for the new ambassador to the Vatican even though there is a modern Australian embassy just 5 km away.


----------



## Julia (16 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

But TS, Tim Fischer, ex Nationals minister, is very, very happy there.
So, in addition to furthering Mr Rudd's interests, it's keeping up the valued tradition of creating prized positions for ex MP's.

In reality, yes, yet another horrible waste of money.

But no worries, no problem in taxing the dumb taxpayers a bit more to pay for it.


----------



## trainspotter (17 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

It appears Andrew Bolt from the Herald Sun has some venom for KRudd.

*KEVIN Rudd spent his first two years in power smashing stuff. *

Now, in this election year, he's spending up to $1 billion of your money to fix the damage.

That's right: Rudd is spending at least $1 billion to fix the havoc he's unleashed by handing out free insulation, splurging on overpriced school buildings, relaxing boat people laws, letting in an unsustainable 300,000 people a year and more.

Oh, I know. You think I'm far too hard on a Prime Minister with the air of a particularly methodical Christian dentist. But one disillusioned day you will hear from many who now work with him that how Rudd seems is bizarrely different to how he is.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/woeful-rudd-an-inept-pm/story-e6frfhqf-1225853354998


----------



## Calliope (17 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> It appears Andrew Bolt from the Herald Sun has some venom for KRudd.
> 
> http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/woeful-rudd-an-inept-pm/story-e6frfhqf-1225853354998




That the most depressing accounting of what this dangerous megalomaniac is doing to this country that I have seen. And none of it can be denied or blamed on Howard.

 We can only hope that the scales will fall away from the eyes of the deluded Rudd lovers before the country is completely ruined.


----------



## todster (17 April 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Wasted money?
Where does all this wasted money go?
Surely some of it flows into the economy and jacks up the shares that plenty of people here are making money,Woolworths,Coles etc.
You make out that its gone forever,Builders pay subbies who eat and drink last time i checked.
Sure misspent but not all gone down a black hole.
As for the bigger construction companies who are rorting the system who do you reckon they voted for at the last federal election. lol


----------



## Calliope (4 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Today's Newspoll indicates that confidence public confidence in Rudd is waning, but Rudd, Swan and the rest of the gang still haven't got the message.

They are still bleating that it is because they have made tough decisions. It takes a lot of spin to turn cowardly decisions into tough decisions, but Rudd is still saying they were in the "national interest", "and for this I will not apologise".

This is the line they were all given to spruik today by their minders.


----------



## trainspotter (4 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

It appears that Kevin Rudd is having a "climate change" of his own at the moment. 

KEVIN Rudd's personal standing has taken a hammering after his decision to dump his climate change policy last week, and for the first time since 2006 the Coalition has an election-winning lead. 

The Prime Minister's personal satisfaction rating has dropped the most in the shortest time in the 20-year history of Newspoll surveys, and for the first time since the election Labor no longer has a clear lead over either the Coalition or the Greens on the issue of climate change.

Mr Rudd's previous standing as being seen to be "decisive and strong" also fell significantly, and for the first time since the election Labor lost its lead over allcomers as the preferred party to handle climate change.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/pol...in-rudd-newspoll/story-e6frgczf-1225861785148

For the first time in Mr Rudd's prime ministership, an opposition leader is seen clearly as being stronger and more decisive than Mr Rudd, and Tony Abbott is considered almost equal with the Prime Minister in his grasp of major policy issues.


----------



## matty77 (4 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Just imagine if the opposition actually get their sh@t together! 

The Krudd spin is being found out - hold on!


----------



## pixel (4 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Q: Does Rudd inspire confidence?
A: Not any more! You can con some people some of the time, but not enough of them till the next election.


----------



## drsmith (4 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



pixel said:


> Q: Does Rudd inspire confidence?




Is a lack of confidence in the government starting to be reflected in the stock market ?
The RRT is a specific issue but we are down 6% overall over a relatively short period.

The DJIA though volatile from day to day is little changed overall during the above period.

Interestingly though, the Changhai Composite has also taken a pounding over a similar period.


----------



## Calliope (5 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Gillard was quick to claim that Rudd's position as leader was secure. He probably still has sufficient traction from the masses whose support he has bought by raiding the Treasury coffers, to win the election.

Soon after the election he will be dumped by the caucus as a liability, now that he has been exposed as a fraud.


----------



## The Muffin Man (5 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Does Rudd inspire confidence?

Yes, he inspires confidence in me that it won't be too long before the Liberal Party is back in power, once again mopping up huge debts left to them by the previous Labor Government. Ground Hog Day anybody?

I have exponentially more confidence in the economic management ability of Abbott/Hockey/Turnbull than anything Labor can currently throw up. Just look at mess after mess this Government has caused. The wastage and inefficient spending of our tax dollars has been mind boggling.


----------



## noco (5 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



The Muffin Man said:


> Does Rudd inspire confidence?
> 
> Yes, he inspires confidence in me that it won't be too long before the Liberal Party is back in power, once again mopping up huge debts left to them by the previous Labor Government. Ground Hog Day anybody?
> 
> I have exponentially more confidence in the economic management ability of Abbott/Hockey/Turnbull than anything Labor can currently throw up. Just look at mess after mess this Government has caused. The wastage and inefficient spending of our tax dollars has been mind boggling.




The MONOMANIACS will undoubtedly disagree with you. 

The Muffin Man standby for an ear full.


----------



## Julia (5 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Gillard was quick to claim that Rudd's position as leader was secure.



This is usually the first faint tones of the death knell for a leader.  The question shouldn't even arise if he were in fact secure in the position.



> He probably still has sufficient traction from the masses whose support he has bought by raiding the Treasury coffers, to win the election.



The election is a few months away yet.  Remember that most people who received the taxpayer funded largesse will also have shares via their Super and they are right now seeing the value of these destroyed at a pretty fast rate.  Remember also that they're now paying more on their mortgages, with more rate rises predicted.  And the Auditor General's report on the BER has apparently come out with damning criticism.   And more in "The Australian" today about the price per square metre of the basic one-storey school halls being twice as much as a complex CBD office tower, with elevators etc.

I doubt this will be the end of the bad news.  And don't under-estimate the mining sector.  They are not going to just say 'well, okey, dokey, we're happy to pay this tax'.  Even Don Argus, now retired, has been very outspoken in his criticism.


----------



## sptrawler (5 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

It is a bit like watching a Keystone cops movie, the Labour party all hanging of the wagon in utter confusion. Come on Wayne how can we pay for all the stuff ups. Jeez Ive got a great idea Kev lets kill the golden goose.


----------



## dutchie (5 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

KRudd is a dudd.


----------



## todster (5 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

In yesterdays West newspaper the State Education Department said just 5 complaints had been made about public school projects!
What does that tell you about east coast building companies


----------



## moXJO (5 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



todster said:


> In yesterdays West newspaper the State Education Department said just 5 complaints had been made about public school projects!
> What does that tell you about east coast building companies




Wow. I didn't know WA had 5 public schools. I thought they just threw you guys in the mines from age 6.


----------



## matty77 (5 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

it makes you wonder though... because why would a school want to report it anyway? it just makes the school look stupid as well.

the rorting will be bigger then anybody thinks, and Krudd will be ducking around this one for awhile.


----------



## Julia (5 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



moXJO said:


> Wow. I didn't know WA had 5 public schools. I thought they just threw you guys in the mines from age 6.







matty77 said:


> it makes you wonder though... because why would a school want to report it anyway? it just makes the school look stupid as well.
> 
> the rorting will be bigger then anybody thinks, and Krudd will be ducking around this one for awhile.



There have been several reports about schools not being given a choice about with whom and how the money was spent, so they don't look stupid at all.

Unbelievably, the Auditor-General's report into the BER has not included whether or not the projects were *value for money!*


----------



## todster (5 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



moXJO said:


> Wow. I didn't know WA had 5 public schools. I thought they just threw you guys in the mines from age 6.



LOL No 18 is minimum age but not if Gina Rienhart had her way i suspect


----------



## bunyip (5 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...sting-90-million/story-e6freuy9-1225859616207

One of the most obvious failings of the Rudd circus is their talent for wasting money. 
Check out the above link to see how Rudd continues to waste a staggering amount of loot on the climate change debacle, despite his suspension of the failed Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme until at least 2013.
In less than one term, Rudd and his ALP cronies have squandered a large budget surplus and converted it into a massive debt that sees his now cash-strapped government desperately searching for ways to raise money to dig themselves out of the hole they've created.
Smokers and miners are on his immediate hit list. But just wait till after the election if he happens to get voted back in - then we'll really see his talent for inventing nasty cash-grabbing strategies.


----------



## trainspotter (5 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Where is the accountability? We as a voting public seem to accept this squandering of billions of dollars as passe. If this happened in a European country there would be riots in the streets, independent inquiries and the good old fashioned guillotine would be wheeled out. Heads would roll, cars would be torched, shops would be looted !! THIS IS OUR MONEY BEING WASTED. And yet there is no checks or balances to bring it back into line. 

BRING ON THE ELECTION I SAY .....


----------



## todster (5 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

And if the Libs get up we will still get hammered,  the excuse that they have to increase tax to cover all the spending of the previous government and we go round and round it's called politics


----------



## trainspotter (5 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



todster said:


> And if the Libs get up we will still get hammered,  the excuse that they have to increase tax to cover all the spending of the previous government and we go round and round it's called politics




Not necessarily so there todster. I reckon the Libs would CUT BACK ON SPENDING and try and trade their way out of difficulty (business economics) rather than increase taxes. Labor has always had the credit card mentality and always will, socialism I think they call it ! We are all equal brothers crapola. Just like Chan Phat Kluddy demonising the naughty foreign owners of BHP & Rio Tinto. What he failed to tell you is that both companies currently have contributed billions of dollars in tax to his Animal Farm.

"The problem with communism (Labor) is that you soon run out of other peoples money to spend" - Margaret Thatcher


----------



## bunyip (5 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



todster said:


> And if the Libs get up we will still get hammered,  the excuse that they have to increase tax to cover all the spending of the previous government and we go round and round it's called politics




Perhaps. 
But if the Libs get in I'd feel pretty confident they'll immediately address the on-going spending rorts and money-wasting debacles that are the hallmark of this Rudd government. That alone would be a massive step in the right direction.
I'd also be confident of the Lib's ability to clean up the illegal immigration mess involving boat people, by reintroducing the Pacific Solution (or something similar) that worked so effectively for the Howard government. That would be another big step in the right direction.
Big spending cuts without adversely affecting production would mean that less money needs to be found by government, therefore less new taxes have to be invented to fund money-wasting projects such as Rudd specialises in.

Sure, maybe it won't be all honkey dory if the Libs get in. But with the current government floundering around like retarded dimwits, can we really afford to let them run another term simply because we're not sure that the alternative will have all the answers?

Can any thinking person honestly say they're happy with this government? 
We try a new brand of toothpaste if we're not happy with the one we're currently using. 
We buy a different make of car next time if our present car gives us nothing but trouble. 
Are we such a mob of dead-beats in this country that we won't show enough get up and go to elect a different government if we're not happy with the present one??!!


----------



## todster (5 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Well it might be another case of voting one out as opposed to voting one in you think.


----------



## sails (5 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



todster said:


> And if the Libs get up we will still get hammered,  the excuse that they have to increase tax to cover all the spending of the previous government and we go round and round it's called politics




Of course the next elected government will have to pay back Rudd's massive spendings.  It's going to hurt.

But what if Rudd can't stop the compulsive spending sprees if he gets another three years - the extra pain borne by taxpayers may not actually repay the debts he has incurred.  With his current track record, he could easily spend any extra he extracts from taxpayers and still keep growing the debt.  Scary...

At least the coalition's track record is better at fixing the financial mess so often left them by labour.  Probabilities are better, IMO.

If we've got to be hit with higher taxes, it would be nice to think the debt is actually being paid off rather than allowing another three years of potential damage.

History is all we've got to go by here - I feel much safer with a government that has a good track record with fiscal policy.


----------



## bunyip (5 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



sails said:


> Of course the next elected government will have to pay back Rudd's massive spendings.  It's going to hurt.
> 
> But what if Rudd can't stop the compulsive spending sprees if he gets another three years - the extra pain borne by taxpayers may not actually repay the debts he has incurred.  With his current track record, he could easily spend any extra he extracts from taxpayers and still keep growing the debt.  Scary...
> 
> ...




I agree - a Liberal government is far more likely than Labor to implement responsible fiscal policy capable of undoing the damage done by Rudd.
When Rudd and his crazy mates get billions of dollars of additional revenue by hitting smokers and miners (and various others too if he gets re-elected), who's to say they won't blow that money on further crazy and poorly implemented schemes like the various debacles we've seen from them so far?
The Rudd government is not worth risking for another term - give someone else a try - a party that delivered the goods last time they were elected following a debt blow out by the ALP government. 
A few years of Liberal government killed the legacy of debt from the Hawke/Keating years. I believe the Libs can do it again without throwing cold water on resource-based investment like Rudd is on the verge of doing.


----------



## trainspotter (5 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Whatever happend to Employment Participation Minister Mark Arbib and his 50,000 National Green Corp jobs programme? Apparently less than 6,000 participated in this wonderful scheme !! Another Rudd FAIL.

Achievement - bolster the employment figures by giving "WORK FOR THE DOLE" a greener title ! Pffffffffffft !

Wrong thread I know to be slipping this on but when the hell are we going to wake up to this spendaholic sociopath?


----------



## bunyip (6 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Watch Rudd back down on his proposed new mining tax. It won't be a complete backflip necessarily, but he'll modify it to something more palatable and less damaging to Australia's resources industry - I don't think he'll have any choice.


----------



## sptrawler (6 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Well today another classic Rudd day in the market. I wonder what will happen if Telstra says you build your own infrastructure. Optical fibre network interconnecting  exchanges around Australia conduits to the node and then conduits to the house. Then we will compete with you on a level playing field with no political intervention, carriers can chose between suppliers, therefore no ACCC intervention. BRING IT ON.


----------



## Julia (6 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



sptrawler said:


> Well today another classic Rudd day in the market. I wonder what will happen if Telstra says you build your own infrastructure. Optical fibre network interconnecting  exchanges around Australia conduits to the node and then conduits to the house. Then we will compete with you on a level playing field with no political intervention, carriers can chose between suppliers, therefore no ACCC intervention. BRING IT ON.




Pretty much just that question was put to Senator Conroy on the 7.30 Report this evening.  

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/


----------



## Bushman (7 May 2010)

*Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*

Ok Krudd was out there again on the airwaves calling himself and Swan 'economic conservatives'. This was a line they used last election to say to the electorate 'we are just like John and Peter'. 

I would suggest that the Krudd track record suggests that Rudd and Swan are anything but 'economic conservatives'. Rather there has been an element of economic recklessness evident over the last term. Evidence of this includes: 
1. stimulus (as Swan calls it, rather than 'the stimulatory fiscal policy' or some such wasetful use of the Enlgish language'. This includes frittering away the budget surplus on handouts to 'not working families' to spend in shops or on credit card debt. This could have paid for his superannuation promise which the miners now have to fund. 
2. The enormously wasteful BER and insulation programs. There was no project management or cost accounting skills demonstrated (key skills, no doubt, of an economic conservative). Once again, the wasted resources could have been spent funding superannuations. 
3. Countless reviews (i.e. Henry) where the recommendations have been ignored. 
4. An ill-thought out resources 'super profits' tax that will ensure that the level of capital expenditure plummets for our mainstay mining industry at the worst time for this. 

So, IMO, Rudd cannot call himself an 'economic conservative' of the ilk of Peter and John. To do so makes a mockery of the Oxford Dictionary. 

To be fair, increasing the superannuation contribution rate is the work of an economic conservative although the funding of this is the work of a trigger happy man. Upgrading our broad band system is also something I agree with as it will bring Australia fully into the digital age. 

So what do you guys think? Is Kruddy an 'economic conservative' in your view or is it more hot air from the political equivalent of the Zeppelin?


----------



## noco (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



Bushman said:


> Ok Krudd was out there again on the airwaves calling himself and Swan 'economic conservatives'. This was a line they used last election to say to the electorate 'we are just like John and Peter'.
> 
> I would suggest that the Krudd track record suggests that Rudd and Swan are anything but 'economic conservatives'. Rather there has been an element of economic recklessness evident over the last term. Evidence of this includes:
> 1. stimulus (as Swan calls it, rather than 'the stimulatory fiscal policy' or some such wasetful use of the Enlgish language'. This includes frittering away the budget surplus on handouts to 'not working families' to spend in shops or on credit card debt. This could have paid for his superannuation promise which the miners now have to fund.
> ...




He might want people to believe he is an economic conservative,  but he is looking more like a SOCIALIST every day and verging on communism. He is thinking like a SOCIALIST when he is deliberately trying to smash the profits of viable mining companies who are the blood line of this Nation. The crap he is brain washing peoples minds, that it all belongs to the people and that they should get a free share in the successes will no doubt impress the naive.

The consequences will be loss of investment in Australia and loss of jobs. South Africa and Canada are rubbing their hands together for they know they will entice Interantional Investors with the incentive of lower taxes.


----------



## Calliope (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*

He is all things to all men...a chameleon, with the exception that he has an abiding hate of big business, which he does not understand.


----------



## todster (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



noco said:


> He might want people to believe he is an economic conservative,  but he is looking more like a SOCIALIST every day and verging on communism. He is thinking like a SOCIALIST when he is deliberately trying to smash the profits of viable mining companies who are the blood line of this Nation. The crap he is brain washing peoples minds, that it all belongs to the people and that they should get a free share in the successes will no doubt impress the naive.
> 
> The consequences will be loss of investment in Australia and loss of jobs. South Africa and Canada are rubbing their hands together for they know they will entice Interantional Investors with the incentive of lower taxes.




Yeah like the job losses the roll back of work choices was going to cause the mining industry


----------



## Mofra (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*

He's an old school Keynesian judging by his attempts a budgeting so far.

The Mining Tax has the potential to cause massive unemployment (thousands of jobs already on hold/lost) and the spending like a drunken sailor is anything but the actions of an economic conservative.


----------



## Calliope (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*

With his usual immaculate timing Rudd imposed his tax hike on the hated big miners when the market was already feeling the pinch from the Greek disaster, the oil spill in the Gulf and many other indicators that things were on a knife edge.

His greed was the tipping point for our markets. It never occurred to him that it is only the big miners that are keeping us afloat.

He is now getting ready to whack Telstra. There are few safe havens


----------



## matty77 (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*

AS some mining guy on Lateline said last night..

Krudd is a damn communist!

sorry cant remember who said it.


----------



## Bushman (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



matty77 said:


> AS some mining guy on Lateline said last night..
> 
> Krudd is a damn communist!
> 
> sorry cant remember who said it.




Clive Palmer


----------



## stockGURU (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*

Alcopop tax
Increased tobacco taxes
"Super tax" on mining profits
Free ceiling insulation
First home buyers grant
Baby bonus

Rudd is a classic tax and spend socialist, not an economic conservative.


----------



## trainspotter (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*

*CAPTAIN Rudd is not so much clearing the decks as burning the furniture in his headlong rush to the election. *

He is still odds-on to win, but at what cost, including to himself? Mere mortals cannot keep up with the daily torrent of announcements out of Canberra. The Prime Minister's pace is unsustainable. His office must be ready to fall over and his department is probably in the early stages of post-traumatic stress disorder.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...o-find-rudd-core/story-e6frg6zo-1225863298646

SPEND SPEND SPEND SPEND SPEND SPEND SPEND SPEND SPEND SPENDSPEND SPEND SPEND SPEND SPENDSPEND SPEND SPEND SPEND SPENDSPEND SPEND SPEND SPEND SPENDSPEND SPEND SPEND SPEND SPENDSPEND SPEND SPEND SPEND SPENDSPEND SPEND SPEND SPEND SPENDSPEND SPEND SPEND SPEND SPENDSPEND SPEND SPEND SPEND SPENDSPEND SPEND SPEND SPEND SPENDSPEND SPEND SPEND SPEND SPENDSPEND SPEND SPEND SPEND SPENDSPEND SPEND SPEND SPEND SPENDSPEND SPEND SPEND SPEND SPENDSPEND SPEND SPEND SPEND SPEND and spend some more !

Kevin Rudd an economic rationalist?? Ya have to be joking me ! All we had to do is sit tight and do NOTHING and we would have come through the GFC without a scratch but NO ..... we had to give away our budget surplus and rack up the national debt. 

*JEEEEEEEZUZ this makes me angry !*


----------



## Calliope (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*

With Rudd's hand on the helm we are heading for "the recession we had to have."

But, "Australia is in a strong position blah blah blah..."


----------



## Bushman (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



trainspotter said:


> *
> JEEEEEEEZUZ this makes me angry ! *



*

Me too. It makes me so damn mad to think that he has frittered away the budget surplus on all those cr*p, wasteful policies and now is imposing an anti-competitive tax on the mining industry to pay for it. 

Then he has the gumption to call himself an 'economic conservative'. WTF? I mean surely the people of Australia are not that stupid?

I mean, by all means, go out there an call yourself a Keynesian who believes in 'big government' and nationalising the private sector. Be honest about it. Just do not go and try and spin all this spending and big taxes as being conservative!!*


----------



## trainspotter (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*

Where are all the freaks that voted for this trainsmash of a government? "It wasn't me that voted for him" I hear them bleat. 

WILL THE PERSON WHO VOTED FOR THIS GOVERNMENT PLEASE STAND UP !


----------



## Calliope (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



trainspotter said:


> Where are all the freaks that voted for this trainsmash of a government? "It wasn't me that voted for him" I hear them bleat.
> 
> WILL THE PERSON WHO VOTED FOR THIS GOVERNMENT PLEASE STAND UP !




They can't stand up. A lot of the "usual suspects" post on the ASF. They are lying low.


----------



## Atlas79 (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*

Rudd, like Gillard, is a communist. He admitted being a socialist long before the last election, which means exactly the same thing. Yet otherwise sensible people still voted for him. Proof is in the pudding now. Enjoy the red in your portfolio & thank Red Kev.


----------



## sails (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



Bushman said:


> ...So what do you guys think? Is Kruddy an 'economic conservative' in your view or is it more hot air from the political equivalent of the Zeppelin?




Below is a small excerpt from Julia's post from the Wall Street Journal in another thread (https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=553190#post553190).



> ...Rudd and Swan didn't say is that this bonanza helped fund the Labor government's unprecedented spending spree,
> *which sent the country from a $19.7bn surplus into a $32.1bn deficit in a single year...*.




If the WSJ have reported the above correctly, it is shocking.  That's 49 billion down the drain.  How can he possibly think he is economically conservative...    Maybe he actually believes his own spin...

In private enterprise, they would most likely be sacked for such a terrible performance.  
Could this government be sacked so such incompentency?


----------



## trainspotter (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*

Maybe Wayne Swann is a black swan event? And Rudd is just a nightmare that I am trying to wake up from? *pinch* NOPE ! They are for real alright !


----------



## dutchie (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*

It will take a long time for the Liberal Party to clean up this *HUGE* mess.


----------



## todster (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



trainspotter said:


> Where are all the freaks that voted for this trainsmash of a government? "It wasn't me that voted for him" I hear them bleat.
> 
> WILL THE PERSON WHO VOTED FOR THIS GOVERNMENT PLEASE STAND UP !




Must be you peanuts in the east Labor are on the nose State and Federal in WAWA land


----------



## trainspotter (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*

*Sniff sniff* what's that smell? Must be the stenching rot coming out of Canberra or is it PM Kevin Rudds mouth?


----------



## todster (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



Bushman said:


> Clive Palmer




Is that the same Clive Palmer who was harping on about a project under threat from the RSPT in South Oz that didn't actually exist


----------



## nioka (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



trainspotter said:


> Where are all the freaks that voted for this trainsmash of a government? "It wasn't me that voted for him" I hear them bleat.
> 
> WILL THE PERSON WHO VOTED FOR THIS GOVERNMENT PLEASE STAND UP !




Standing up!!!!!!!

I helped get rid of Howard.  Maybe I'll help get the the libs back but not with "big ears and bike riding budgies". I'll vote for a Turnbull led government.

Did I get called a freak? I just checked in the mirror and I think I looked like a normal Aussie. A little weatherbeaten but that is what happens when you spend many many years attending the school of hard knocks.


----------



## matty77 (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*

I didnt vote for Labour but I can understand how people at the time did, he was good when doing his speaches and inspired the masses with his "revolution" communist talk, and I wouldnt blame anybody for not seeing through him at the time. But that isnt the problem...

The problem is this...... ALOT OF THOSE PEOPLE THAT VOTED HIM IN STILL THINK HE IS DOING A GREAT JOB!!!

I am being seriuos, i just dont know what is wrong with people and its sooooooo frustrating that soooooo many people cant see this government is flushing Australias wealth down the toilet.


----------



## trainspotter (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



nioka said:


> Standing up!!!!!!!
> 
> I helped get rid of Howard.  Maybe I'll help get the the libs back but not with "big ears and bike riding budgies". I'll vote for a Turnbull led government.
> 
> Did I get called a freak? I just checked in the mirror and I think I looked like a normal Aussie. A little weatherbeaten but that is what happens when you spend many many years attending the school of hard knocks.




Stand on a chair so I can see you ! 

The budgie smuggling, bike rider is not really doing it for me either (women apparently don;t trust him either?) and I did not like Turnbull's arrogance I must say ! Joe Hockey is a dunce and easily baited. So who is next in line.

Maybe a Turnbull #2 with the rough bits cut off ?

My apologies on calling people who voted for Labor "freaks" I should have written "cerebrally challenged". :


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



trainspotter said:


> Stand on a chair so I can see you !
> 
> The budgie smuggling, bike rider is not really doing it for me either (women apparently don;t trust him either?) and I did not like Turnbull's arrogance I must say ! Joe Hockey is a dunce and easily baited. So who is next in line.
> 
> ...



Why not focus on policy rather than the person?

If Rudd took measures to reduce the size of government, reduce taxes across the board, and promote ownership of property (not just the home ) and business I would vote for him. But for socialist policies I wouldn't.


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



matty77 said:


> I didnt vote for Labour but I can understand how people at the time did, he was good when doing his speaches and inspired the masses with his "revolution" communist talk, and I wouldnt blame anybody for not seeing through him at the time. But that isnt the problem...
> 
> The problem is this...... ALOT OF THOSE PEOPLE THAT VOTED HIM IN STILL THINK HE IS DOING A GREAT JOB!!!
> 
> I am being seriuos, i just dont know what is wrong with people and its sooooooo frustrating that soooooo many people cant see this government is flushing Australias wealth down the toilet.



And the middle class is the victim.


----------



## matty77 (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



It's Snake Pliskin said:


> Why not focus on policy rather than the person?
> 
> If Rudd took measures to reduce the size of government, reduce taxes across the board, and promote ownership of property (not just the home ) and business I would vote for him. But for socialist policies I wouldn't.




So if he said he was going to would you vote for him? Would you trust him to deliver that promise?

Or would you vote for him once he has actually done it? Without stuff it up in the process?


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



matty77 said:


> So if he said he was going to would you vote for him? Would you trust him to deliver that promise?
> 
> Or would you vote for him once he has actually done it? Without stuff it up in the process?



I would have to see some serious change in his management ability. I wouldn't vote on a 20 year future promise. I would have to see action immediately.


----------



## todster (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



It's Snake Pliskin said:


> Why not focus on policy rather than the person?
> 
> If Rudd took measures to reduce the size of government, reduce taxes across the board, and promote ownership of property (not just the home ) and business I would vote for him. But for socialist policies I wouldn't.




What policy of Abbotts do you suggest


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



todster said:


> What policy of Abbotts do you suggest



I think we are still waiting for it aren't we? 
In general he seems to be more astute with regard to economic issues and I support his stance in opposing the ETS, and TAX GRABS such as what is going to happen. And the size of government will shrink under him. When I know his election policies I'll know more myself.


----------



## trainspotter (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



It's Snake Pliskin said:


> Why not focus on policy rather than the person?
> 
> If Rudd took measures to reduce the size of government, reduce taxes across the board, and promote ownership of property (not just the home ) and business I would vote for him. But for socialist policies I wouldn't.




I totally believe in the policy positions of government rather than the individual. Unfortunately the way the media is these days it is more about the personality of the leader than what they are actually espousing.

Notice how PM Rudd has sidelined Garrett, Wong, Combet, Gillard etc etc to NOT speak to the media. Only Kevin himself is fronting the team with words like "The buck stops here" (Harry Truman style) and "We get it, the governemnt gets it" (in reference to the backlash by the people and policies that have now changed)

I would vote for two bushy eyebrows and a drovers dog as long as they STOPPED SPENDING !!!!!!!!


----------



## nioka (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



trainspotter said:


> My apologies on calling people who voted for Labor "freaks" I should have written "cerebrally challenged". :




I'm still offended. I did an IQ test and got a result of 146. That was a challenge to the cerebellum. That makes me "cerebrally challenged" so I am offended that you relate CC to freaks.


----------



## bunyip (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*

I think you're all being too hard on poor Kevin. He's quite a nice man really and he's doing the best he can for all of us.

Look at all the things he's given you......money for the pokies, money to buy whitegoods made overseas, money even if you once lived in Australia but now live overseas, new school libraries and assembly halls so your kids can excel in school. Nobody could be fairer or more generous than that!

You lot are so ungrateful - you should be ashamed of yourselves! Now be nice to Kevin and Wayne and Julia from here on - I think you should all write to them and say _'Thanks Kev and Swannie and Jules - you're the best'._


----------



## Mofra (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



trainspotter said:


> I totally believe in the policy positions of government rather than the individual. Unfortunately the way the media is these days it is more about the personality of the leader than what they are actually espousing.



Totally agree, although the information is there for those who dig.



trainspotter said:


> Notice how PM Rudd has sidelined Garrett, Wong, Combet, Gillard etc etc to NOT speak to the media.



Gillard is the only thing remotely successful in the labour party (strangely, she was the one I was most suspicious of before the last election) and is given a fair reign to speak to the media.

The rest of them do get their chance to front the media - Rudd never announces backflips and policy adjustments himself, they are left to the junior ministers.


----------



## sails (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



It's Snake Pliskin said:


> I would have to see some serious change in his management ability. I wouldn't vote on a 20 year future promise. I would have to see action immediately.




Snake, what about the pattern of exorbitant and apparently compulsive spending with OPM (taxpayer's money) since he has been in government?  Maybe that doesn't worry you, but it certainly does worry me.  

Three more years is a long time to do an awful lot of damage to our country financially if he can't help himself with these spending sprees.  Who then is going to bail us out if we go bankrupt?


----------



## noco (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



trainspotter said:


> Where are all the freaks that voted for this trainsmash of a government? "It wasn't me that voted for him" I hear them bleat.
> 
> WILL THE PERSON WHO VOTED FOR THIS GOVERNMENT PLEASE STAND UP !



They've all gone into hiding!!!!!!!


----------



## Julia (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



Bushman said:


> I mean, by all means, go out there an call yourself a Keynesian who believes in 'big government' and nationalising the private sector. Be honest about it. Just do not go and try and spin all this spending and big taxes as being conservative!!



This is the bit that really infuriates me, too.  His refrain of "we are taking the *tough decisions*to make Australia a better place and to ensure the security of Australian working families, carers and pensioners", uttered in that sanctimonious, pious tone, when what he's doing is selling our future down the gurgler is beyond belief.
Note how his minders must have told him not to just refer to working families.
He now remembers that people who are not part of his beloved 'working families' also vote.




sails said:


> If the WSJ have reported the above correctly, it is shocking.  That's 49 billion down the drain.  How can he possibly think he is economically conservative...    Maybe he actually believes his own spin...



Sails, I doubt the WSJ would have got this wrong.
And yes, I think he may genuinely believe in what he's doing.
Hitler did, too.



trainspotter said:


> Notice how PM Rudd has sidelined Garrett, Wong, Combet, Gillard etc etc to NOT speak to the media.



I'm not sure that's quite fair, TS.  I've seen both Wong and Gillard in extensive interviews on ABC TV in the last week.  In both cases they were being asked to account for the Dear Leader's actions, putting both of them in a very unpleasant position.

Ms Gillard is an accomplished performer.  I've never seen her rattled, and recently she seems to have dropped some of the repetitive party line and has actually addressed some of the questions asked.
But heavens, ain't it bad when we feel grateful that a politician should actually answer a question in anything like a genuine fashion!!


----------



## sptrawler (7 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*

Well I can see why we got rid of the Liberals. They said if we have a surplus that means we are taxing you too much. So therefore we will give you tax cuts and not take as much.
Kev says I have a dream I want to give a laptop to all children and a plasma t.v to all homes that can't afford one and a multistory canteen with a lift to all primary schools and to anybody who isn't worried about efficiency and has spent there money on something else I want to put insulation in your roof and whether you need it or not I want to put high speed broad band to your house. BUT KEV THATS MY MONEY YOU ARE SPENDING WHY NOT ASK ME FIRST IF I WANT IT. OR ELSE PAY FOR IT OUT OF YOUR OWN POCKET YOU D!!!K


----------



## bunyip (8 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



nioka said:


> Standing up!!!!!!!
> 
> I helped get rid of Howard.  Maybe I'll help get the the libs back but not with "big ears and bike riding budgies". I'll vote for a Turnbull led government.
> 
> Did I get called a freak? I just checked in the mirror and I think I looked like a normal Aussie. A little weatherbeaten but that is what happens when you spend many many years attending the school of hard knocks.




So you voted out a government that returned Australia to a budget surplus in just one term after Hawke & Keating (in typical Labor fashion) ran up a huge deficit.
You voted out a government that had given us many years of responsible economic management and solid growth and prosperity.

And as their replacement you voted in a rabble consisting mostly of union stooges and a rock star, a mob with limited if any economic credentials or managerial experience, a bunch of irresponsible spendaholics who have thrown money around with reckless abandon and racked up a huge debt in the process, a bunch of fools who have virtually laid out the welcome mat to illegal immigrants, a pack of socialist morons who now want to tax the heart out of the very industries that have given Australia much of its prosperity.

Well done, Nioka - you must feel very pleased with yourself as you watch Rudd stuffing up our country!


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (8 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



sails said:


> Snake, what about the pattern of exorbitant and apparently compulsive spending with OPM (taxpayer's money) since he has been in government?  Maybe that doesn't worry you, but it certainly does worry me.
> 
> Three more years is a long time to do an awful lot of damage to our country financially if he can't help himself with these spending sprees.  Who then is going to bail us out if we go bankrupt?



Hi Sails,

Perhaps I should have mentioned spending. I agree with your comments. In wanting a smaller government, lower taxes, and an environment which isn't socialism and good for entrepreneurial pursuits, naturally I would want reduced spending of the public's money.  

After thinking about it more I feel a change of government is paramount. I guess I was policy dreaming with hope. The reality is much different as we can all see.


----------



## GumbyLearner (8 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*

No.

He is famous.


----------



## So_Cynical (8 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



trainspotter said:


> WILL THE PERSON WHO VOTED FOR THIS GOVERNMENT PLEASE STAND UP !




I actually live in Howard's old electorate and was happy to play my part in Australia's political history and vote him out. 

On the rare occasion that i simply cant in all honesty vote Labor i just vote informal due to our stupid 2 party preferred system...except in the senate of course where your vote actually counts.


----------



## GumbyLearner (8 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



So_Cynical said:


> I actually live in Howard's old electorate and was happy to play my part in Australia's political history and vote him out.
> 
> On the rare occasion that i simply cant in all honesty vote Labor i just vote informal due to our stupid 2 party preferred system.




That's awesome So_Cynical. The second sitting PM to lose his own electorate since the Great Depression Earle-Page Government. What happens after that???

Oh o? 

What happened to Jack Scullin? 

Oh o?


----------



## todster (8 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



bunyip said:


> So you voted out a government that returned Australia to a budget surplus in just one term after Hawke & Keating (in typical Labor fashion) ran up a huge deficit.
> You voted out a government that had given us many years of responsible economic management and solid growth and prosperity.
> 
> And as their replacement you voted in a rabble consisting mostly of union stooges and a rock star, a mob with limited if any economic credentials or managerial experience, a bunch of irresponsible spendaholics who have thrown money around with reckless abandon and racked up a huge debt in the process, a bunch of fools who have virtually laid out the welcome mat to illegal immigrants, a pack of socialist morons who now want to tax the heart out of the very industries that have given Australia much of its prosperity.
> ...




Gee must have been a huge deficit if they returned it to surplus in one term what did they sell that term
Its real easy to stay in surplus when you dont do anything at all
How is this government actually physically affecting you?
You must be busily trying to find a way to blame this government for the current plunge in the market  good luck
You must be excited about the budget


----------



## trainspotter (8 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



nioka said:


> I'm still offended. I did an IQ test and got a result of 146. That was a challenge to the cerebellum. That makes me "cerebrally challenged" so I am offended that you relate CC to freaks.




LMAO@nioka .... an IQ of 146 puts you in the same league as Stephen Hawking then? What's the air like up there? Ergo you are a freak! Albeit a very smart one. Most genuis's I know actually have never tried to do an IQ test let alone tell everyone their grade.

todster ... are you trolling again? try this instead www.google.com.au

How is this government physically affecting me? Try some research.


----------



## todster (8 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



trainspotter said:


> LMAO@nioka .... an IQ of 146 puts you in the same league as Stephen Hawking then? What's the air like up there? Ergo you are a freak! Albeit a very smart one. Most genuis's I know actually have never tried to do an IQ test let alone tell everyone their grade.
> 
> todster ... are you trolling again? try this instead www.google.com.au
> 
> How is this government physically affecting me? Try some research.




not with live bait                  
Front page West Australian  Robust economy to force up rates
Maybe you could try Crikey.com instead of google
I tend to worry about things that affect me and try not to take politics terribly seriously, something about getting the government you deserve


----------



## Julia (8 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



todster said:


> I tend to worry about things that affect me and try not to take politics terribly seriously, something about getting the government you deserve



You are, of course, entitled to just focus on yourself.  I - and many people I know - are quite comfortable and unaffected in any personal sense by the Rudd government's woeful mismanagement.

But we still are appalled at such profligate waste of taxpayer money, plus further borrowed funds, the repayment of which will cost us dearly.
We won't be hearing about just how until after they're re-elected, of course, other than the mining tax, but hell, just wait until they know they're safe for another three years.  Then the pain will start.

And the phrase 'you get the government you deserve' is irritatingly illogical.
Those of us who voted Liberal in no way deserve to have to put up with the incompetent arrogance of this lot.  It's just another cliche which completely lacks any logical meaning.


----------



## Purple XS2 (8 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



noco said:


> They've all gone into hiding!!!!!!!




Hmmm, maybe. Consider me out of the closet, then.

Is Rudd a conservative? Yes. I haven't heard much in the way of strategic defence of the resource super-tax, but it makes perfect (conservative) sense to me to 'conserve' or rather, to maintain as long as possible, our resources which we _all_ own, as citizens not just the mining co. shareholders.

How is it good policy to mine, drill and sell every locatable resource now, this year, this decade? Once upon a time the ocean spawning grounds of the orange ruffy were located, and it took quota imposition to restrain trawlermen from fishing those spawning stocks to near extinction. A communist policy perhaps? And mineral resources don't even breed. They exist. Once. They're mined. Once.

A conservative would slow things down a bit. Our grandchildren may appreciate our restraint; there may be some left in the ground for them to enjoy too.

Resources in the ground aren't going anywhere. The talk of mining wealth leaving the country as a result of the super-tax is absurd a comment as I've ever heard. It may however not reach your or my back account in the volume expected. A bit less. Oh, the horror ...

But strategy is a dirty word. The future is a dirty word. Grandchildren, great-grandchildren, are dirty words.

I voted A.L.P. (in the lower house). Don't like P.M. Rudd, but much prefer to the previous, and to the opposition de jour.

In the senate I voted Green.

The horror, the horror ....


----------



## Trade wind (8 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*

Depends how you define economic conservative. Neo-conservatives strive for a no tax, no government, no regulation ideal, and have a radical market-driven agenda. Traditional conservatives, like most Liberals, are best defined as do nothing. Economically, they see surplus as the holy grail of government, which is why infrastructure ran down for 11 years, and they preferred to squander boom revenue on vote buying at election time.

It's nonsense that a mining tax will bankrupt the country and lose hundreds of thousands of jobs, and if taxes on our national resources are used to build roads, ports, hospitals etc that benefit all Australians, then go for it. But alas, I fear Rudd is much like Howard, a do-nothing economic conservative with an eye on opinion polls rather than good policy. Of all Henry's proposals, he took the soft options, the vote winners acceptable to the mortgage belt. 

If the mining lobby and "big new tax" Abbott can turn public opinion, Rudd will backflip. Doing nothing wins elections in this country.


----------



## trainspotter (8 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



Purple XS2 said:


> Hmmm, maybe. Consider me out of the closet, then.
> 
> Is Rudd a conservative? Yes. I haven't heard much in the way of strategic defence of the resource super-tax, but it makes perfect (conservative) sense to me to 'conserve' or rather, to maintain as long as possible, our resources which we _all_ own, as citizens not just the mining co. shareholders.
> 
> ...




Closet dwelling duly noted.

How is taxing the mining companies a "conservative" measure on saving a finite resource? A conservative government would ban uranium mining seeing how we only have ONE nuclear reactor in Australia to play with and it is only expermimental and not a fully functional model. This is not a conservative governement by any means. It is a taxing government that has run up a debt that we will have to pay for in the long run. By over taxing multi national companies has never worked. It means they will look at alternate profit making ventures outside of Australia. This will affect us all by these companies not employing as many people who contribute huge sums in tax dollars to the ATO. They also spend their income on cars, boats, property etc ... you get my drift.

To compare mining to orange ruffy is a bit oblique ? Are you saying that by introducing a quota to stop plundering a finite resource is the answer?

My issue with this governement is the SHEER WASTE OF MONEY we have been watching disappear down the gurgler. BER, ETS, PINK BATTS, LAPTOP FOR EVERY STUDENT, STIMULUS $900 X 3 yadda yadda yadda. Then, when they are caught out doing the wrong thing they simply deny it was their fault. "Nope, we don't have to answer to the inquiry because it is a Liberal stunt" and "We did get all those expert reports 10 months ago but we did not read them so it is not our fault that those people died and those houses burned down" and so on and so forth.


----------



## wayneL (8 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



Purple XS2 said:


> Is Rudd a conservative? Yes.




No.

Any politician espousing the perverted Keynesianism typical currently in western economies must be social democrats by definition, whether under the banner of Labor or Liberal.

Ergo, not conservative.


----------



## medicowallet (8 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



nioka said:


> I'm still offended. I did an IQ test and got a result of 146. That was a challenge to the cerebellum.




I forgive you. I guess that even having an IQ of 146, you may not know that the cerebellum is not involved in complex thought processes and calculation.


----------



## trainspotter (9 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

The economic stamp of this governement will be borne when we visualise their blueprint on Tuesday. It will be one of the best Clayton budgets we have had and not even close to the Keating era of "Bringing home the bacon" budget that delivered the biggest ever surplus for Australia. This will be one that resembles Swiss cheese with that many holes in it you can drive a Mack truck through it. I am waiting in anticipation to see some hard line economic reform and not some wishy washy "tax the rich to give to the poor" Robin Hood kind of document. No wait ........ they already rolled this one out and blamed Ken Henry for the 40% "super profits tax" ........ nice on Kev.


----------



## Bushman (12 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*

His baaaccckkkk.....the ecocon warrior!

From The Age: 

“The key thing that I believe in is responsible economic management,” Mr Rudd told ABC's Radio National.

“The core element of conservative economic management, in which I believe, is expanding the role of government in the economy when the private sector is in retreat.

“Had we not done that we would have had a quarter of a million more Australians out of work, many small business collapsing.

“Now that the economy globally is on a pathway to recovery it's time for the role of government to retreat. That's what conservative economic management is all about. That's what I believe in.”


----------



## trainspotter (12 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



Bushman said:


> His baaaccckkkk.....the ecocon warrior!
> 
> From The Age:
> 
> ...




So does this mean the Govt is cutting back on the stimulus? Didn't Kevin07 recently state that the stimulus was necessary due to the problems with Greece?


----------



## Mofra (12 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



Purple XS2 said:


> Is Rudd a conservative? Yes. I haven't heard much in the way of strategic defence of the resource super-tax, but it makes perfect (conservative) sense to me to 'conserve' or rather, to maintain as long as possible, our resources which we _all_ own, as citizens not just the mining co. shareholders.



I have to disagree here - a tax and spend philosophy is not consistant with self-proclaimed economic conservatism, and his bailouts are very much (as Wayne has also pointed out) very much a Keynesian attitude.

In terms of the most recent budget, the end of the deficit is dependant on forecasts of the Chinese demand for our raw resources continuing to boom - the estimate of this demand is up to 2020! Banking our future purely on the whims of any nation should be regarded as folly IMO.


----------



## GumbyLearner (13 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

This is for Whiskers and his hat's theory. Dream on mate still want to save a little to not worry like Big Kev and his untouchable wife.



Nice hat by the way!  Where's Kev's hat??? Back at Churchie!!!


----------



## bunyip (13 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*

In the midst of this debate about the virtues (or lack thereof) of our government, maybe it's time for a bit of humour!


The Rudd government has announced that it's changing its national symbol to a condom because it more accurately reflects the governments political stance.
A condom allows for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation while at the same time protecting a bunch of pricks, and gives you a sense of security while you're being screwed.
Damn - it just doesn't get any more accurate than that!


----------



## todster (13 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



bunyip said:


> In the midst of this debate about the virtues (or lack thereof) of our government, maybe it's time for a bit of humour!
> 
> 
> The Rudd government has announced that it's changing its national symbol to a condom because it more accurately reflects the governments political stance.
> ...




What does Tony think about condoms,does he share the Popes view?


----------



## moXJO (13 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*




todster said:


> does he share the Popes view?




Altar boys?

Wait, do I go to hell for saying that


----------



## Calliope (13 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



Bushman said:


> The key thing that I believe in is responsible economic management,” Mr Rudd told ABC's Radio National.




The problem is that Rudd is a liar.

How can you tell when he is lying?

When he opens his mouth.


----------



## moXJO (13 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*



> THE Government's claim to fiscal rectitude is an utter sham. Wayne Swan's budget is built on two great fiddles.
> Appropriately, the fiddles relate to the Rudd Government's two great stupidities -- the National Broadband Network and the Emissions Trading Scheme.
> 
> The fiddles enable the Government to hide up to a massive $50 billion of new spending. So much for the claim they've pulled the pursestrings tight.
> ...




More here 

I think a lot of the public also do not understand that when the budget goes back to surplus is when the debt starts being paid off. A lot of people I talk to seem to think it's when the debt is paid off fully.


----------



## matty77 (13 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*

economic responsiblity is getting thrown around alot for the budget, but the fact is, and can i just say, they hard working familes of australia are sick of the government wasting money.


----------



## bunyip (13 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*

Here's some more light reading.....

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/swans-balancing-act-wont-add-up-20100512-uxyv.html


----------



## bunyip (13 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*

*Ivor Ries of EL & C Baillieu Stockbroking describes the folly of Kevin Rudd’s great $9 billion “super profits” tax: *


The Resources Super Profits Tax will generate no new revenue for five years, and has stopped new projects dead.

There are 270 major resource projects in Australia undergoing feasibility studies and financing with a total capital value of $320 billion. These projects would have employed somewhere around about 120,000 people during the construction phase.

The Resources Super Profits Tax has stopped them dead in their tracks. All of those projects are now frozen. There are probably about 20,000 engineers working on these projects and by the end of the month half of them will be unemployed.

Over the past few days I’ve been struggling to come up with a couple of phrases that sum up the new Resource Super Profits Tax and after considering a great many options – most of them unprintable – I’ve settled on two: “sheer arrogance” and “vast stupidity"…

This tax will generate no new revenue (until 2015) because the forecasts in the RSPT document failed to take into account all the projects that are going to be put on ice as a result. The government’s forecast of an additional $9 billion in revenue from 2013-14 is rubbish and I bet there’s not a single Treasury official who will stand behind that number today.



and

UPDATE

Macquarie Private Wealth Premium Research warns its subscribers:


The truly scary aspect of this is the lack of understanding from Rudd and Swann towards equity risk premiums. The equity risk premium is the extra return an investor is paid in return for taking equity risk. The new tax is slated to apply if a business earns more than a 6% return (equal to the rate paid on “risk free” government bonds). Effectively they are saying we should not bother investing in industry that offers a better return than government bonds or they will double tax you.

Our strategist asked Treasurer Swann a question yesterday on this issue and asked why the tax kicked in when returns exceeded the bond rate rather than the bond rate + an equity risk premium of say 5% (otherwise known as a companies cost of capital). Swann did not understand the question no matter how it was re-phrased - in other words the treasurer of Australia does not know what the cost of capital is for Australian companies. This is economics 101!

Comments from our Strategist Neale Goldston-Morris - Capital will continue to flow from Australia until either Labor loses the election or this tax is dropped. This is the greatest sovereign event Australia has faced since 1974 when Gough Whitlam was ousted.

I will continue to direct my clients funds towards the US until we see clarity in this situation.


----------



## trainspotter (14 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Not sure if this one belongs in here or in the joke thread or in the Peter Garrett thread but I am sure the mod squad will sort it out for me:

*The Australian Government and the NSW Forestry Service were presenting an alternative to NSW sheep farmers for controlling the dingo population.*

It seems that after years of the sheep farmers using the tried and  true methods of shooting and/or trapping the predators, the Labor Government (Peter Garrett - Environmental Minister), the NSW Forestry Service and the Greens tree-huggers had a 'more humane' solution.

What they proposed was for the animals to be captured alive, the males would then be castrated and let loose again. Therefore the population would be controlled.  

This was *ACTUALLY *proposed to the NSW Sheep farmers Association and Farming Association by the Federal Government and the NSW Forestry Service.

All of the sheep farmers thought about this amazing idea for a couple of minutes. Finally, one of the old boys in the back of the conference room stood up, tipped his hat back and said, ‘Mr Garrett, son, I don't think you understand our problem. Those dingo’s ain't ****in' our sheep - they're eatin' 'em.'

You should have been there to hear the roar of laughter as Mr  Peter Garrett and the members of the NSW Forestry Service , the  Greens and the other "tree huggers" left the meeting very  "sheepishly".


----------



## drsmith (14 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Compared to Kevin Rudd, Michael Pascoe would get down on his knees for Julia Gillard.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/julia-for-pm-20100514-v2do.html


----------



## Julia (14 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

First rate article, as usual, by Michael Pascoe.  I think a lot of people would agree with him.

I'd go for the combination of Gillard and Tanner over Rudd and Swan by a long shot, and also over Abbott and Hockey who are a long way from looking ready to govern.

Julia Gillard has demonstrated courage and determination in the fight with the fairly powerful Teachers' Union over the NAPLAN tests.  At no stage did she lose her cool or rant as did her leader on the 7.30 Report last night.  If one can put the voice aside, and her continued tendency to 'stick on message' rather than answer specific questions, there's quite a lot to admire about Ms Gillard imo.

And Mr Tanner breaks the Labor Party mould by actually answering questions quite sensibly, and acknowledging the reality of the mistakes.  He seems a fairly genuine and credible person.


----------



## drsmith (14 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> First rate article, as usual, by Michael Pascoe.



Agreed. Struck me as very much unbiased.


----------



## trainspotter (14 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Breaking news - Bob Hawke has anointed Julia Gizzard for a leadership spill. Apparently overheard that he is backing the barren one for leadership potential. Et tu Brute'. It would seem that there are some rumblings in the Labor camp. OH OH ! Watch your back Kev.


----------



## Julia (14 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> Breaking news - Bob Hawke has anointed Julia Gizzard for a leadership spill. Apparently overheard that he is backing the barren one for leadership potential. Et tu Brute'. It would seem that there are some rumblings in the Labor camp. OH OH ! Watch your back Kev.




Is the above just your usual romanticising, TS, or is it actually true that Bob Hawke has made this comment?


----------



## trainspotter (14 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> Is the above just your usual romanticising, TS, or is it actually true that Bob Hawke has made this comment?




Julia, the proof is in the media that has flashed before my very eyes. Bob Hawke was overheard uttering such very "Ides of March".

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/na...ia-gillard-as-pm/story-e6frf7l6-1225867002154

Is that the sound of a party beginning to fracture?


----------



## gav (14 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> Is the above just your usual romanticising, TS, or is it actually true that Bob Hawke has made this comment?




I don't know if Hawke actually made this comment Julia, but a recent TV news update says he did...


----------



## trainspotter (14 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> Not necessarily so there todster. I reckon the Libs would CUT BACK ON SPENDING and try and trade their way out of difficulty (business economics) rather than increase taxes. Labor has always had the credit card mentality and always will, socialism I think they call it ! We are all equal brothers crapola. Just like Chan Phat Kluddy demonising the naughty foreign owners of BHP & Rio Tinto. What he failed to tell you is that both companies currently have contributed billions of dollars in tax to his Animal Farm.
> 
> "The problem with communism (Labor) is that you soon run out of other peoples money to spend" - Margaret Thatcher




Hmmmmmmmmm I posted the above on the 5th of May ...... Abbott in the Budget rebuff reckons he is going to allow natural attrition in the public service and save 3 billion and lose 6000 jobs in this sector. Went on to say .... SCRAP the 43 billion NBN rollout. NO 40% tax on the mining tax etc et al ad infinitum .... would this be a cut back on SPENDING??

LOLOLOLOL .......... what the hell would I know?


----------



## drsmith (15 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

If Tony Abbott practiced what he preaches when it comes to pork barrelling, his message would resonate far better with the public.

There's little credibility in saying that the tax raised from a corporate levy to fund paid maternity leave is less than the government's proposed RRT and subsequent giveways. In principal what they are both doing is the same.


----------



## IFocus (15 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



drsmith said:


> Compared to Kevin Rudd, Michael Pascoe would get down on his knees for Julia Gillard.
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/business/julia-for-pm-20100514-v2do.html




Labours queen of clubs, not so sure Julia and Tanner get along so well but then Julia and Rudd fairly despised each other before taking over the Labor leadership.

They would be a formidable combination all the same.


----------



## IFocus (15 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



drsmith said:


> If Tony Abbott practiced what he preaches when it comes to pork barrelling, his message would resonate far better with the public.
> 
> There's little credibility in saying that the tax raised from a corporate levy to fund paid maternity leave is less than the government's proposed RRT and subsequent giveways. In principal what they are both doing is the same.




The art of politics a bit like false advertising


----------



## Julia (15 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> Julia, the proof is in the media that has flashed before my very eyes. Bob Hawke was overheard uttering such very "Ides of March".
> 
> Is that the sound of a party beginning to fracture?






gav said:


> I don't know if Hawke actually made this comment Julia, but a recent TV news update says he did...



Thanks, TS and gav.  Yes, read about it in today's paper.



drsmith said:


> If Tony Abbott practiced what he preaches when it comes to pork barrelling, his message would resonate far better with the public.
> 
> There's little credibility in saying that the tax raised from a corporate levy to fund paid maternity leave is less than the government's proposed RRT and subsequent giveways. In principal what they are both doing is the same.



Of course, and to suggest otherwise is simply further damaging his credibility.



IFocus said:


> Labours queen of clubs, not so sure Julia and Tanner get along so well but then Julia and Rudd fairly despised each other before taking over the Labor leadership.



I didn't know that, IFocus.   They've done a very good job of hiding this.
Do you have any thoughts about Rudd being replaced by Ms Gillard?


----------



## IFocus (15 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> I didn't know that, IFocus.   They've done a very good job of hiding this.
> Do you have any thoughts about Rudd being replaced by Ms Gillard?




My opinion for what its worth

Rudd is PM pretty much because Gillard put him there in a deal with Labor right. Rudd  hasn't  any major faction power base within the Labor party so gained / maintains his position as a result of public appeal and sheer political skill.

The Rudd / Gillard partnership has been a power house force against the Liberals in the lower house and seen off two opposition leaders I think Abbott is next thanks largely to Gillard

I would think Rudd will stay for the next election then depending on faction deals Gillard could take over some time in the future but I wouldn't right off Rudd to soon John Howards ability to stick around while on the nose being a good example.

Gillard has one weakness looking after her own long after there use-by dates Martin Ferguson being a good example.


----------



## noco (15 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

How can one be inspired by this man when he says the "MUMS AND DADS AND WORKING FAMILIES SHOULD HAVE A SHARE IN THE MINING WEALTH OF AUSTRALIA".

Isn't he really saying that your share in the mining industry, which you are entitled to, is to pay off his (Rudd's) failures, waste of our money and  monstrous debt?

That's our Prime Minister!!!!!!!!!


----------



## drsmith (15 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noco said:


> How can one be inspired by this man when he says the "MUMS AND DADS AND WORKING FAMILIES SHOULD HAVE A SHARE IN THE MINING WEALTH OF AUSTRALIA".



That should read "MUMS AND DADS AND WORKING FAMILIES SHOULD HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO PAY MORE TAX WHEN THEY SHARE IN THE SAND AND GRAVEL WEALTH OF AUSTRALIA".


----------



## trainspotter (15 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



drsmith said:


> That should read "MUMS AND DADS AND WORKING FAMILIES SHOULD HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO PAY MORE TAX WHEN THEY SHARE IN THE SAND AND GRAVEL WEALTH OF AUSTRALIA".




That should be Western Australia BTW.. Hmmmmmmmm ??


----------



## drsmith (15 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I was referring to this;

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...ief-for-quarries/story-e6frg6nf-1225866338722


----------



## Julia (15 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

This is the result of a survey by Essential Media Communications on voters' views about Mr Rudd:

http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/we-need-to-talk-about-kevin/


----------



## noco (15 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> This is the result of a survey by Essential Media Communications on voters' views about Mr Rudd:
> 
> http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/we-need-to-talk-about-kevin/




Good one Julia, that sums up our Prime Minister in a nut shell.

I hope the Labor Party do not sack him before the election as he is Abbott's best asset. To replace him with Jools could make it harder for Australians to determine  a change of Government. She may well turn the tables in favour of Labor.


----------



## trainspotter (15 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



drsmith said:


> I was referring to this;
> 
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...ief-for-quarries/story-e6frg6nf-1225866338722




I was referring it to this:-

Last month, he stood firm in rejecting Rudd's attempts to raid 30 per cent of the state's GST revenues to fund a new national health scheme, even as all the Labor premiers rolled over.

"I made it very clear to the Prime Minister and to the Treasurer that you cannot come over to Western Australia with 20 pieces of silver and expect a deal," he said at the time.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/pol...owed-by-canberra/story-e6frgczf-1225866683500


----------



## trainspotter (17 May 2010)

*Re: Media turns on Rudd*



cornnfedd said:


> is it just me or has Krudd aged a hell of a lot over the past 12 months?




Before and after photos evidencing this fact. Tough job !


----------



## jancha (18 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

A motorist was stuck in a traffic jam when suddenly a man knock on the car window.
The driver winds down his window and asks "what's going on?"
"Terrorist have kidnapped Kevin Rudd,Wayne Swan, Julia Gillard & Kristina Keneally!!"
"They're asking 10 Million in ransom otherwise they're going to douse them in petrol & set fire to them!"
We're going from car to car taking up a collection.

"How much is everyone giving on average?" asked the motorist.

"ABOUT A LITRE"


----------



## GumbyLearner (18 May 2010)

*Is Kevin Rudd into secret handshakes?*

I just thought it time to start a thread.


----------



## springhill (19 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd into secret handshakes?*

Don't know about handshakes, but he's an expert at the 5-knuckle shuffle.


----------



## sam76 (19 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd into secret handshakes?*

he is also very popular with Mrs Palmer, lol


----------



## BrightGreenGlow (19 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd into secret handshakes?*

Wonder how many people voted Labor..... mostly no-hopers I'd say?


----------



## sam76 (19 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd into secret handshakes?*

I had some yuppie idealist mates who voted for him.

They are all embarrassed to admit it now.

And so they should be....


----------



## sam76 (19 May 2010)

*Re: Who was Kevin Rudd before he was Leader of the Opposition?*

I bet there are some regrets from posters in this thread , lol


----------



## trainspotter (19 May 2010)

*Re: Who was Kevin Rudd before he was Leader of the Opposition?*

According to http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Kevin_Rudd

Kevin Rudd was born at the age of 19 on Venus, Space. According to his official MySpace blog, Kevin Rudd grew up when he got a boner, where he spent the majority of his time wandering 'accidently' into strip joints to return his erected penis to its flaccid state (it's worth noting that Kevin Rudd isn't too bright.) 

In order to escape the media wanting to know more about his strip club affair he underwent superhero surgery. The result was deemed a failure; the experiment led to create a mild mannered '****wit' politician by day, 'Milky Bar Kid' by night. This stage in Kevin's life has been referred to as his brightest and his darkest hour. 

Also in his late teens, he started to develop a strange, smarmy look about him. This can be seen quite easily today, especially when he smiles. This smarmy look continued developing throughout his teenage life; by the age of 304 talent scout Kim Beazley found Kevin's image plastered on a New York strip club wall. This image led Kim to sketch up the now universally acclaimed character, Mr. Sheen. The money accumulated led to fund the exploits of the Australian Labor Party, much to Australia's distress. 

He is quoted as saying that his predecessor, Mark Latham, working families lost the election due to mud slinging. To give himself a better change, Kevin plans to sling cow manure at John working families Howard instead. This is reportedly a common practice in the Australian Parliament new leadership. In 1972, at the age of 317, Rudd was bitten by the ancient Australian vampire Gough Whitlam, after which he suddenly and inexplicably joined the ALP. Ironically, after joining the party, Kevin reaped the rewards of his unfortunate image; once he joined the ALP the money Kim Beazley invested into the party wound up back to him. Only to be spent on Milky Bars.


----------



## sam76 (19 May 2010)

*Re: Who was Kevin Rudd before he was Leader of the Opposition?*

I swear he fits in with my men who look like lesbians thread.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13242&highlight=lesbian


----------



## newbie trader (19 May 2010)

*Re: Who was Kevin Rudd before he was Leader of the Opposition?*



sam76 said:


> I bet there are some regrets from posters in this thread , lol




Haha sam I was reading the posts but didn't look at the date and was thinking how some people must have changed their minds about Rudd over night. :


----------



## Mister Mark (19 May 2010)

*Re: Who was Kevin Rudd before he was Leader of the Opposition?*



newbie trader said:


> Haha sam I was reading the posts but didn't look at the date and was thinking how some people must have changed their minds about Rudd over night. :




I to was sitting, reading and stunned at the kind words for kev, then i to looked at the dates and breathed a sigh of relief


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (19 May 2010)

*Re: Who was Kevin Rudd before he was Leader of the Opposition?*



Mister Mark said:


> I to was sitting, reading and stunned at the kind words for kev, then i to looked at the dates and breathed a sigh of relief



You are still living in the nightmare though.


----------



## trainspotter (19 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Amazing what people will type into Google?


----------



## bunyip (20 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

More light reading about our esteemed Prime Minister!

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/.../maybe_latham_wasnt_so_mad_on_rudd_after_all/


----------



## noco (20 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

VOTE 1 KEVIN RUDD.

(AKA) Kevin Joyce   (AKA) Barnaby Rudd.

On Sky News this morning Kevin Rudd stated a 30 year old on average weekly wage would retire on $810,000 if the super is increased from 9 - 12 %.

Quick you 30 year olds get it in writing before he changes his mind.

OOOOPPPPS! SORRY! he made a  little mistake it should have been $108,000 and only a whisper from the media.

This would have made headlines for a week in every paper and TV station for a week if Abbott or Hockey had made such a gaffe.

THAT'S OUR PRIME MINISTER!!!!!!!!!?????????????


----------



## Calliope (20 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



bunyip said:


> More light reading about our esteemed Prime Minister!
> 
> http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/.../maybe_latham_wasnt_so_mad_on_rudd_after_all/




It's incredible that Latham picked him as a nasty piece of work so long ago, especially his ability to work the press to his advantage.


----------



## Julia (20 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Where do you get the $108,000 from, noco?

Assuming the average wage to be around $50K p.a. (and it may be more), 12% p.a., again assuming a further working life of another 30 years for a 30 year old, is going to be a lot more than that.


----------



## trainspotter (20 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Mark "A congo line of suckholes" Latham was spot on when he wrote this in his book about our Fearless Leader who is doing his best to run the good ship "Credit Card" firmly up on the rocks.

*Saturday, 22nd November 2003, Page 243 *

All the snakes are sliding around in the grass feeding their poison to Seccombe (SMH Journalist): *Rudd, Swan, Albanese, Tanner *and Comb-over. 

*Page 249*

_It is amazing that the journalist couldn’t see through him. Two factors: they are lazy and dumb and Rudd is a fanatical media networker. He is addicted to it worse than Heroin. _

It would appear that the cracks are begininng to show in the Teflon coating of our illustrious PM. The lazy hack media has awoken to his sleight of hand magic show. It is a great pity that there is not a beliveable alternative identity in the other camp who will take the poison chalice from the grasp of this megalomaniac. I fear we will suffer another term of this media driven, poicy on the run, attention seeking wh0re.


----------



## noco (20 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> Where do you get the $108,000 from, noco?
> 
> Assuming the average wage to be around $50K p.a. (and it may be more), 12% p.a., again assuming a further working life of another 30 years for a 30 year old, is going to be a lot more than that.




Sorry Julia it was an extra $108,000, but Rudd did say $810,000.


----------



## bunyip (20 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> It's incredible that Latham picked him as a nasty piece of work so long ago, especially his ability to work the press to his advantage.




Maybe Latham has more sense than I gave him credit for.


----------



## Bushman (26 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*

To be clear, Ruddy is going to fight the election over his economic credentials, industrial relations and social welfare. 

From The Australian: 

'And in a pep talk to colleagues, the Prime Minister reinforced his key themes for the approaching election campaign: *Labor's economic management skills *and delivery of fairness through industrial relations reform; higher pensions; and the planned increase in the superannuation guarantee.'

I really do despair at the level of financial knowledge in the Australian electorate if a large and indiscriminate Keynesian spending campaign and a poorly constructed/consulted RSPT can be sold as having sound economic credentials! 

FFS, all the retail stimulus package did was delay anaemic consumption (see Clive Peeters). Also, as I have mentioned before, the Labour party have demonstrated a complete lack of project managment and cost accounting skills and refuse to have any of their projects properly audited. 

Tax reform has now been hijacked by the economic theorists and propenents of social welfare at the expense of the capitalists. The main defender of this policy by spreadsheeting is a primary school teacher who is big on rhetoric and grandstanding but has obviously never been involved in financing a profitable mining venture. 

Swanny and Krudd also believe in policy by stealth and I cannot believe that an 'economic conservative' would not consult with all stakeholders (not just the la la land economists) before imposing a draconian tax (in its current form) on an industry of national significance. 

I think I am going to have to go and live in a cave for the next 6-9 months rather than witnessing the selling of this con job to the electorate. This will as usual be delivered with that trade mark sardonic smirk perfected by our Prime Minister!   

Unfortunately the Libs have the discipline of the Greek treasury department and are a complete rabble under Abbot. Lets see - Abbot and his trustworthy gaffe and crazy parental leave tax, Bishop commenting on intelligence agencies, Hockey not presenting his budget spending cuts? Amateurish rabble and how they must miss the steady hand and rigid party/policy discipline of Howard and Costello. 

At this rate, my vote will have to be a protest vote as I am not allowed to opt out of voting despite my deep despair at the state of political leadership in our great nation. Where is our third force in politics? This is what happens when you only have two dominant parties. 

Standards, eloquence, honesty and stewardship is all I ask for.


----------



## Julia (26 May 2010)

*Re: Is Kevin Rudd an 'economic conservative'?*

Bushman, a heartfelt post with which I fully agree.  Just so depressing all round, especially when it's looking likely the Greens will end up with the balance of power in the Senate, after much of the disillusioned Labor vote flows to them.


----------



## noco (29 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

How can this idiot of a Prime Minister of ours justify spending $38,500,000 OF TAX PAYERS MONEY on advertising his propaganda on the RSPT. More lies and spin!
There is little chance of it passing through the Senate, so why waste more money on a bill that may never rise from the table.
That's our Prime Minister. As Malcolm Fraser states,"he is far worse than Gough Whitlam".
He has to be kicked out at the next election. Even our best of friend So_Cynical is starting to see the light. Good onya mate.


----------



## Calliope (29 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noco said:


> How can this idiot of a Prime Minister of ours justify spending $38,500,000 OF TAX PAYERS MONEY on advertising his propaganda on the RSPT. More lies and spin!
> There is little chance of it passing through the Senate, so why waste more money on a bill that may never rise from the table.
> That's our Prime Minister. As Malcolm Fraser states,"he is far worse than Gough Whitlam".
> He has to be kicked out at the next election. Even our best of friend So_Cynical is starting to see the light. Good onya mate.




What a two-faced lying hypocrite Rudd is!  When he accused Howard of doing this he said it was "a cancer on democracy"  and pledged not to do it. His health reform propaganda is also paid for by the taxpayer.

Rudd is a cancer on society. He will have to be excised.


----------



## bunyip (29 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noco said:


> How can this idiot of a Prime Minister of ours justify spending $38,500,000 OF TAX PAYERS MONEY on advertising his propaganda on the RSPT. More lies and spin!
> There is little chance of it passing through the Senate, so why waste more money on a bill that may never rise from the table.
> That's our Prime Minister. As Malcolm Fraser states,"he is far worse than Gough Whitlam".
> He has to be kicked out at the next election. Even our best of friend So_Cynical is starting to see the light. Good onya mate.




38.5 million?
or 3.85 million?

Whatever the figure, the slimy bastard shouldn't be spending even $1 of taxpayers money on it.


----------



## noco (29 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



bunyip said:


> 38.5 million?
> or 3.85 million?
> 
> Whatever the figure, the slimy bastard shouldn't be spending even $1 of taxpayers money on it.




$38.5 MILLION is correct. How many hospital beds would that amount of money have purchased?

The way this idiot is going about things ATM, you would begin to wonder if he really wants to win the next election. Maybe, just maybe, the next three years may too much for him to handle. Let someone else clean up the mess.

That's our Prime Minister!!!!!!!


----------



## IFocus (29 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noco said:


> How can this idiot of a Prime Minister of ours justify spending $38,500,000 OF TAX PAYERS MONEY on advertising his propaganda on the RSPT. More lies and spin!
> There is little chance of it passing through the Senate, so why waste more money on a bill that may never rise from the table.
> That's our Prime Minister. As Malcolm Fraser states,"he is far worse than Gough Whitlam".
> He has to be kicked out at the next election. Even our best of friend So_Cynical is starting to see the light. Good onya mate.




Liberal mates milked millions from Howard’s ad bonanza

When it came to the Workchoices advertising campaigns, which cost more than $120m, MCGC ensured the Liberal Party’s closest friends in the advertising industry got in on the action.

Lindsay Tanner and John Faulkner got rid of the MCGC when they got into government and handed control of advertising back to the Department of Finance instead of PM&C.


http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/03/13/liberal-mates-milked-millions-from-howards-ad-bonanza/


Government advertising cost $254 million in the final year of the Howard government, $86 million in 2008 and $115 million in 2009.

''For 12 long years the Liberal Party abused taxpayer funds in pursuit of advertising campaigns that promoted party political interests,'' Mr Ludwig said. ''Under the Howard government, there was no explicit prevention on the use of campaigns for political purposes, and there was no independent scrutiny of campaigns prior to their launch.''

http://www.watoday.com.au/national/labor-defends-126m-for-ads-20100512-uy4m.html


----------



## noco (29 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



IFocus said:


> Liberal mates milked millions from Howard’s ad bonanza
> 
> When it came to the Workchoices advertising campaigns, which cost more than $120m, MCGC ensured the Liberal Party’s closest friends in the advertising industry got in on the action.
> 
> ...




Yes and Rudd promised before the  2007 election to stop the overuse of government advertising, which he described as "a long term cancer on our democracy". What a hypocrite this guy is.
Any way, I guess the $38,500,000 is only pesnuts to the $6 billion he has wasted on his harebrain schemes of home insulation and BER etc,etc, plus another $800,000,000 to fix the insulation debacle.
Why are they wasting all this money on advertising when the bill  may not even pass through the senate.


----------



## Julia (29 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



IFocus said:


> Liberal mates milked millions from Howard’s ad bonanza
> 
> When it came to the Workchoices advertising campaigns, which cost more than $120m, MCGC ensured the Liberal Party’s closest friends in the advertising industry got in on the action.
> 
> ...



But John Howard had never railed against government advertising being "a cancer on our democracy".  Both sides when in government have always abused taxpayer funds to pay for their own advertising.
It's the utter hypocrisy from Rudd in this instance which has left people open-mouthed in disbelief, especially after he has wasted so many billions.
My guess would be that some of those swinging voters who were disgusted with the government's performance so far, but were still prepared to give them another chance, will have found this advertising ruse one step too far and will switch their vote.
Personally, I find it the most obnoxious thing they have done so far because there isn't even the pretence of the money being spent with the aim of doing anything for the Australian people:  it's a purely political move.


I have never held any particular fondness for any mining company, but now simply out of revulsion for the behaviour of the government, I would back the miners 100%.




noco said:


> Why are they wasting all this money on advertising when the bill  may not even pass through the senate.



I was thinking about that too, but I suppose they want to influence the electorate into pressuring their local members one way or the other.
I can't see how they'll get it through the Senate.  Steve Fielding has opposed it strongly.  Scullion will probably vote with the Libs.  Anyone know Nick Xenophon's view?


----------



## IFocus (29 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



> But John Howard had never railed against government advertising being "a cancer on our democracy".




Not sure this makes it OK on Howards part look at the numbers spent frigging huge. Abbott was part of that spend a thon



> Both sides when in government have always abused taxpayer funds to pay for their own advertising.




Nope Howard government really was / is the bench mark




> It's the utter hypocrisy from Rudd in this instance which has left people open-mouthed in disbelief, especially after he has wasted so many billions.
> My guess would be that some of those swinging voters who were disgusted with the government's performance so far, but were still prepared to give them another chance, will have found this advertising ruse one step too far and will switch their vote.
> Personally, I find it the most obnoxious thing they have done so far because there isn't even the pretence of the money being spent with the aim of doing anything for the Australian people:  it's a purely political move.




Abbotts one liner policy's are not political? 




> I have never held any particular fondness for any mining company, but now simply out of revulsion for the behaviour of the government, I would back the miners 100%.




Julia look at the facts not the spin there should be a tax. 

Abbotts prescription is that the mining company's should write or decide the tax laws of Australia not Treasury.

Abbott will lock himself into not having tax reform at our expense


----------



## Julia (30 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



IFocus said:


> Julia look at the facts not the spin there should be a tax.
> 
> Abbotts prescription is that the mining company's should write or decide the tax laws of Australia not Treasury.
> 
> Abbott will lock himself into not having tax reform at our expense



IFocus, I don't disagree about the need to change the way mining companies are taxed, but the current proposal is unreasonable, not to mention appallingly dumped on the nation without proper consultation.

This has wreaked all the current fury on all sides which could have been avoided had the government engaged in reasonable consultation prior to announcing the tax.  

I'd guess a compromise will be reached which eliminates the retrospectivity of the proposed tax, increases the threshold to 11 or 12% and drops the taxpayer picking up 40% of the cost of failed projects, a dumb idea if ever I heard one.

And I'm not here to be an apologist for Abbott:  he wants to levy his own great big new tax on all companies to pay for a ridiculously generous maternity leave scheme.

A pox on all their houses!


----------



## IFocus (30 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> A pox on all their houses!




Yes 

I will probably vote greens this year in the senate


----------



## awg (30 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Without reading this thread, and also disclosing that I am Labour inclined,

I dont understand how the govt could possibly have clumsily handled this mining tax proposal.

Without going over the full details of the tax itself, some things seem obvious to me:

* A change in the way the taxes are levied was proposed, costed and thought out in the Henry report etc.

* This should have been a reasonably easy political sell to the public

* Mining companies would oppose

So why not consult and negotiate properly with them first, and let the matter sink in, instead of dropping a bucket of poo?

The only sensible reason I can think of, is someone must have concluded that a period of uncertainty would not be good.

But now they have bought that about in spades, the mining coys will muster an almighty campaign against the govt, and they look completely politically inept.

It seems concessions will need to be made

Hard to imagine ways it could have been more poorly managed


----------



## IFocus (30 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



awg said:


> Without reading this thread, and also disclosing that I am Labour inclined,
> 
> I dont understand how the govt could possibly have clumsily handled this mining tax proposal.
> 
> ...




Yep agree also Clive Palmer is a NLP member and financial supporter of the Libs and Nats is leading the charge so the politics is pretty grubby from the mining side no win for Labor


----------



## todster (30 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noco said:


> $38.5 MILLION is correct. How many hospital beds would that amount of money have purchased?
> 
> The way this idiot is going about things ATM, you would begin to wonder if he really wants to win the next election. Maybe, just maybe, the next three years may too much for him to handle. Let someone else clean up the mess.
> 
> That's our Prime Minister!!!!!!!




Mate if you can find a program that runs number check as opposed to spell check try using it!


----------



## Julia (30 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



IFocus said:


> Yes
> 
> I will probably vote greens this year in the senate




Oh God, IFocus, if you're serious, have you really thought that through?
Just imagine every bit of serious legislation held up because it focuses e.g. on the economy without giving double funding to some project to protect the quasi endangered triple toed rat!


----------



## noco (31 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Rudd has got himself in one big mess. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...f-his-own-making/story-e6frg6zo-1225873223153
Is it any wonder. No doubt he will riggle his way out with his spin, lies and rhetoric.
That's our Prime Minister.


----------



## trainspotter (31 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Can someone tell me why we are spending 38.5 MILLION DOLLARS on advertising for the RSPT ? We are not the ones who need to be convinced ! Krudd should be kissing butt in the Senate to try and get this bill passed. Last time I looked I don't have to vote on this ... THE POLITICIANS DO !  A national emergency to bypass the advertising standards bureau ?? For crying out loud are we really that thick as a nation we are allowing this to happen? The lunatics are on the grass .... fetch my rifle.


----------



## c-unit (31 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...ive-book-extract/story-e6freuzi-1225873206625

A good insight into the character of Our Dear Leader (Julia's term for Rudd has stuck with me)


----------



## -Bevo- (31 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



c-unit said:


> http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...ive-book-extract/story-e6freuzi-1225873206625
> 
> A good insight into the character of Our Dear Leader (Julia's term for Rudd has stuck with me)




Should hear the interview on Alan Jones show with Morris Iemma and Michael Costa lol, sounds like all of labour don't like the guy as well.


----------



## Southern X (31 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Does Abbott inspire fear and loathing?

I'm unhappy with the tax, and the hypocrisy of the tax-payer funded propaganda blitz. On the other hand I can't imagine giving Joe Hockey milk money and expecting him to come back with the right change (if he can even find his way back)... So, at the money end of the stick I'll vote for Tanner over Hockey.

On the Double J Front -- Julia v Julie -- it's the hair that makes the call. Snappy, moderne chic Gillard, contrasted with sharp, concise retro Bishop. In other words, based on this irrefutable evidence: A forward looking Julia over a retread policy maker like Julie.

Finally (for now) Rudd v Abbott. When Abbott speaks it better be from a proof read script etched in stone. When Rudd speaks he should be a little less halting, pedantic, and have fewer ingenuous "matey moments."

At this point Rudd and confidence: LESS, but a relatively strong team. Abbott and confidence: LESS, but what a box of rocks for a brains trust.

S X


----------



## bunyip (31 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

ONE OF  THE BEST EXPLANATIONS OF  WHY RUDD WON THE  ELECTION  

From a teacher in the Geelong  area "We are worried about 'the cow' when it is all about the 'Ice Cream.'  

The most  eye-opening civics lesson I ever had was while teaching third grade this year...

The election was heating up and some of the children showed an interest. 

I decided we would have an election for a class captain. 

We would choose our nominees. They would make a campaign speech and the class would vote. 

To simplify the process, candidates were nominated by other class members. 

We discussed what kinds of characteristics these students should have. 

We got many nominations and from those, Jamie and Olivia were picked to run for the top spot. 

The class had done a great job in their selections. Both candidates were good children. 

I thought Jamie might have an advantage because he got lots of parental support. 

I had never seen Olivia's mother. 

The day arrived when they were to make their speeches.     

Jamie went first. 

He had specific ideas about how to make our class a better place.  
He ended by promising to do his very  best. 

Everyone applauded and he sat down. 

Now it was Olivia's turn to speak. 

Her speech was concise. 

She said, "If you will vote for me, I will give you ice cream." 

She sat down. 

The class went wild. "Yes! Yes! 

We want ice cream." 

She surely would say more. She did not have to. 

A discussion followed. How did she plan to pay for the ice cream? 

She wasn't sure. 

Would her parents buy it or would the class pay for it. 

She didn't know. 

The class really didn't care. 

All they were thinking about was ice cream. 

Jamie was forgotten. Olivia won by a landslide. 

Every time Rudd opened his mouth he offered ice cream and 
52 percent of the people reacted like nine year olds. 

Remember, the government cannot give anything to anyone   -- 
that they have not first taken away from someone else.


----------



## trainspotter (31 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

The funny thing is that I remember a cartoon of Kevin Rudd in an Icecream van with Wayne Swann shovelling manure into the back of it and pie faced Kevvy handing the gloop out to the punters. November last year some time in the Australian I think it was ?? Trying to find it so I can share it with those like minded good citizens who need a laugh in this desperate time of bovine excrement being thrown at us by the Guvt. SHEEEEEEEESH !


----------



## trainspotter (31 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Not the one I was thinking of but you get the drift !


----------



## noco (31 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



IFocus said:


> Yep agree also Clive Palmer is a NLP member and financial supporter of the Libs and Nats is leading the charge so the politics is pretty grubby from the mining side no win for Labor




So how much do the grubby unions give to Labor even though a lot of unionist are not Labor supporters?


----------



## -Bevo- (31 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Found this pic, Kevin Rudd looks like Ice Cream lol.


----------



## todster (31 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noco said:


> So how much do the grubby unions give to Labor even though a lot of unionist are not Labor supporters?




What the unions that were going to ruin the mining industry with the scrapping of individual contracts,you clowns believed that one too.


----------



## trainspotter (31 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



todster said:


> What the unions that were going to ruin the mining industry with the scrapping of individual contracts,you clowns believed that one too.




That is me on the very end on the right. No wait ........ that is me in the backrow on the left ..... no wait ....


----------



## c-unit (31 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



> THE RUDD government had already called in advertising agencies to pitch for a $38 million taxpayer funded campaign to sell the mining tax before announcing the new tax, despite arguing it was a campaign of misinformation by mining companies that justified the "urgent" expenditure.
> Special Minister of State Joe Ludwig today released correspondence confirming that Kevin Rudd’s kitchen cabinet consisting of the Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, Wayne Swan and Lindsay Tanner approved the $38 million campaign to sell the mining tax reform package on April 20, several weeks before it was publicly announced on May 2.
> The government has argued it was a matter of urgency to rush out the taxpayer funded advertising campaign because of a campaign of misinformation by the opposition and mining companies.
> But the correspondence released today reveals that when Wayne Swan had already commissioned advertising companies to work on the campaign before he wrote to the Special Minister of State Joe Ludwig on May 10 asking for an exemption from guidelines that would prohibit the advertising campaign.
> ...




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/pol...ndustry-backlash/story-e6frgczf-1225873658225

Keep digging Kevin!!!


----------



## todster (31 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> That is me on the very end on the right. No wait ........ that is me in the backrow on the left ..... no wait ....




Cant see the Hugo Boss outfit is it in the wash?


----------



## IFocus (31 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> Oh God, IFocus, if you're serious, have you really thought that through?
> Just imagine every bit of serious legislation held up because it focuses e.g. on the economy without giving double funding to some project to protect the quasi endangered triple toed rat!




Expect there would be no difference to now where the senate blocks everything.


----------



## noco (31 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

It won't be long now, Krudd will be history, maybe before the election, if not soon after.


----------



## Julia (31 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



IFocus said:


> Expect there would be no difference to now where the senate blocks everything.



You may be right but I have visions of Labor being so desperate to get legislation through that they will accept some nonsensical demands from the Greens.
But thinking about the ETS, they rejected what the Greens put up.  I suspect by that time they'd woken up to the cooling in the electorate toward an ETS, in addition to the global swing away from enthusiasm for anthropogenic climate change.

One day there just might be a political party which will act for the good of Australia, rather than its own political survival.


----------



## trainspotter (31 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



todster said:


> Cant see the Hugo Boss outfit is it in the wash?




LOLOL .... gee thanks todster ! It must have been at the drycleaners that day along with the Armani suits ?


----------



## GumbyLearner (31 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> LOLOL .... gee thanks todster ! It must have been at the drycleaners that day along with the Armani suits ?




Those Hugo Boss pants suck if you are taller than the average fella! Over 5'10" forget Hugo, go the Zegna and fill it out like Keating. Not like this pretender Rudd. Shhh! He's not attracted to women. Shhh!  Nice marketing campaign in a NY strip club however.


----------



## trainspotter (31 May 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



GumbyLearner said:


> Those Hugo Boss pants suck if you are taller than the average fella! Over 5'10" forget Hugo, go the Zegna and fill it out like Keating. Not like this pretender Rudd. Shhh! He's not attracted to women. Shhh!  Nice marketing campaign in a NY strip club however.




Pierre Cardin for pants IMO if you are over 5'10". I like Monza when it comes to leather jackets as well. Krudd looks like he buys his suits from K Mart. He should go for the one button Australian wool suit and support the sheep farmers of this country! Maybe mix it up with some Giorgio Forelli to appeal to the younger set.


----------



## IFocus (1 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> You may be right but I have visions of Labor being so desperate to get legislation through that they will accept some nonsensical demands from the Greens.
> But thinking about the ETS, they rejected what the Greens put up.  I suspect by that time they'd woken up to the cooling in the electorate toward an ETS, in addition to the global swing away from enthusiasm for anthropogenic climate change.
> 
> One day there just might be a political party which will act for the good of Australia, rather than its own political survival.





Labor and the Greens rarely do deals not likely to change plenty of hate to go around from old wars but we could see a Senate hung like Tassie House of reps the way the polls are running


----------



## noco (1 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

How could anyone be inspired by this Prime Minister of ours when he betrays his own Labor mates in NSW. Chek out this article in the Australian.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-voodoo-politics/story-e6frg6zo-1225873731673


----------



## noco (1 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Rudd has struggled to defend his $38,500,000 spending of taxpayers money on his political advertising of his RSPT. Read what the Adelaide Now had to say.
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...-defend-ad-blitz/story-e6frea83-1225873724615


----------



## trainspotter (3 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

*This Old Tool has recently been reintroduced in Canberra by Kevin Rudd.

Are you starting to feel it yet?*


----------



## GumbyLearner (3 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Nope.



And neither does Paul Howes. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Howes

He should rejoin Resistance with his lentil burger eating Trotskyite friends and get a High School diploma. And also resign his Directorship from AustralianSuper for betraying Australia's workers and those educated enough to realize what this super tax will really do to jobs and investment in this country.


----------



## awg (3 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Something that does annoy me about Rudd.

He trys to come across as this mild-mannered reasonable guy, when it now emerges he is a foul-mouthed, bad tempered bully boy and possibly even chronic liar.

He reminds me quite a lot of some bosses I had in the public service.

I quite admire Keating, he did not bother with this goody-too shoes act.


----------



## -Bevo- (3 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Well I just hate Rudd just listening to the guy makes me want to puke, the incompetence displayed over the mining tax grab really got me boiling, after all the other problems created you would think they be alittle careful nope, all I can say is I have zero percent confidence in Krudd and labour.


----------



## inrodwetrust (3 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

KR's remarkable ability to bring havoc to whatever he touches...
bears an uncanny resembles to this chap ....Anthony Fremont ...

It 's a Good Life - The Twilight Zone 

It's a bit eerie  .... 



> Six-year-old Anthony Fremont looks like any other little boy, but looks can be deceiving: He is a monster, a mutant with godlike mental powers. Early on, he isolated the small town of Peaksville, Ohio. In fact, the handful of inhabitants do not even know if he destroyed the rest of the world or if it still exists. Anthony has also eliminated electricity, automobiles, and television signals. He controls the weather and what supplies can be found in the grocery store. Anthony creates and destroys as he pleases, and controls when the residents can watch the TV and what they can watch on it.
> 
> The adults tiptoe nervously around him, constantly telling him how everything he does is "good", since displeasing him can get them wished away "to the cornfield", where presumably their corpses are buried. At one point, a dog is heard barking angrily. Anthony thinks the dog is "bad" and "doesn't like him," and wishes it into the cornfield. His father is horrified, but he dares not show it.
> 
> ...





And what's really creepy.... the Labor Party's like the scared parents.


Just in case, remember to duck, if KR points a finger in your direction!! And always have happy thoughts!


----------



## -Bevo- (3 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

*Rudd hints at revived emissions scheme*

http://www.smh.com.au/business/rudd-hints-at-revived-emissions-scheme-20100603-x2o1.html#poll

Oh no please not this crap again. 

Krudd please just dont do anything, dont say anything just call an election,
I just hope you and the rest of your govnuts get booted.


----------



## awg (3 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



-Bevo- said:


> Well I just hate Rudd just listening to the guy makes me want to puke, the incompetence displayed over the mining tax grab really got me boiling, after all the other problems created you would think they be alittle careful nope, all I can say is I have zero percent confidence in Krudd and labour.




Me to, cost me plenty on a couple of local gas co plays, gapped my stop, have come back a bit since then



inrodwetrust said:


> KR's remarkable ability to bring havoc to whatever he touches




Used to work with a dude, we Nicknamed him Passion Fingers

F#@#$d everything he touched


----------



## nunthewiser (3 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Yawns.......

For all those that saying Rudd cost ya money on stocks because of the "supertax" please consult some charts (world indexes/currencysetc) and consult world media reports around that time of initial rundown.

You will see rudds supertax didnt come into play until later on in the rundown .....but hey never let the truth get in the way of a good whinge.

I have said this previously elswhere but i dare say it wont mean much to you this time either


----------



## awg (3 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



nunthewiser said:


> Yawns.......
> 
> For all those that saying Rudd cost ya money on stocks because of the "supertax" please consult some charts (world indexes/currencysetc) and consult world media reports around that time of initial rundown.
> 
> ...




After re-consulting the charts, I would offer you Eastern Star Gas, ESG, but I cant be bothered posting the details, as the evidence is so overwhelming, and this isnt the right thread.


----------



## nunthewiser (3 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



awg said:


> After re-consulting the charts, I would offer you Eastern Star Gas, ESG, but I cant be bothered posting the details, as the evidence is so overwhelming, and this isnt the right thread.




I looked at ESG and its high was ALSO in mid april and fell from there
WAY before any rudd supertax news . 

The first trading day after the news leak thing was the 3/5/10 and overall not much movement down on that actual day

The highs were in mid april tho, i thought i would repeat that.


not to worry .


----------



## Julia (3 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



-Bevo- said:


> *Rudd hints at revived emissions scheme*
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/business/rudd-hints-at-revived-emissions-scheme-20100603-x2o1.html#poll
> 
> ...



Oh god, I hope we don't go through all this again.  It is, however, pretty likely if the Greens achieve the balance of power in the Senate.  Rudd will give them what they want on an ETS or carbon tax in order to get their backing for some of his other crap.
The return of Turnbull to the Libs will do them no favours in this regard either.

I can just see it unfolding:  Labor win the election, with a reduced majority, the Greens getting balance of power in the Senate.  The Libs toss Tony Abbott out in anger, and elect Turnbull, as there is simply no one else even remotely capable.  Turnbull revives his support for an ETS, and bingo, off we go with this in addition to the mining tax and all the other Rudd inspired legislation.

I can only hope for climate change to actually become a fact, so that New Zealand will get warm enough for me to return to live there.


----------



## Duckman#72 (3 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> I can only hope for climate change to actually become a fact, so that New Zealand will get warm enough for me to return to live there.




 That's a great line Julia!!


----------



## trainspotter (3 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



nunthewiser said:


> Yawns.......
> 
> For all those that saying Rudd cost ya money on stocks because of the "supertax" please consult some charts (world indexes/currencysetc) and consult world media reports around that time of initial rundown.
> 
> ...




AAAAAAAaaaahhhh YES the market was on the backslide globally. BUT but but but ....... How much was the correction if it had NOT been for the RSPT and Kruddys unfortunate timing on this policy? (for Australias point of view)  Like you I also have posted that it would be better to do NOTHING in certain circumstances then run the red flag up the pole...............?? *whinge*


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (3 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

He appeared a bit "tetchy" in Parliament today.

gg


----------



## satanoperca (3 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Yes he does inspire confidence if you like doing backflips on policy/decision/actions all the time.

Wonder how he would go in private industry. I personally would invest everything and then leverage up everything I had to invest in a company run by Backflip KRUDD. It would be a sure thing, surely!

It is that silver hair that get me going.

Cheers


----------



## Julia (3 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



satanoperca said:


> It is that silver hair that get me going.
> 
> Cheers



I think you're supposed to describe it as blonde, satanoperca.  If the Dear Leader thinks he's perceived to have silver hair, we will probably see some artificial help applied to the Prime Ministerial locks soon.


----------



## trainspotter (3 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> He appeared a bit "tetchy" in Parliament today.
> 
> gg




Define "tetchy" for me please GG. I did not have the opportunity to see our fearless leader unravel today in Parliament.


----------



## Calliope (4 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> It is, however, pretty likely if the Greens achieve the balance of power in the Senate.  Rudd will give them what they want on an ETS or carbon tax in order to get their backing for some of his other crap.




Yes and as same sex marriage is a plank in the Green's platform, it will not only be legalized, it will probably become compulsory.


----------



## awg (4 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



nunthewiser said:


> I looked at ESG and its high was ALSO in mid april and fell from there
> WAY before any rudd supertax news .
> 
> The first trading day after the news leak thing was the 3/5/10 and overall not much movement down on that actual day
> ...




I think it took a while to digest how the proposal may impact on individual companies.

On the 2nd trading day it went from over 90c to mid 70s,

In my portfolio, those mining stocks that were offshore held steadier than Oz revenue-based, we will just have to agree to disagree on the degree of impact.

I am not saying it was the only thing or even the biggest thing trend wise, but I personally am in the camp that reckons the rspt has had an adverse impact on percieved future prospects of certain projects.


----------



## Trembling Hand (4 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Yes and as same sex marriage is a plank in the Green's platform, it will not only be legalized, it will probably become compulsory.




Oh dear. I'm booking in for a colostomy bag and butt closure surgery now.


----------



## medicowallet (4 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



satanoperca said:


> It is that silver hair that get me going.
> 
> Cheers




I'm sure it entranced to "bunch of miners" he met with too.

Can the miners scalp him and use commercial endeavours as an excuse?


----------



## trainspotter (4 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Herr Rudd was on the Today show this morning and did indeed seem "tetchy" when Mel asked him a question about does he feel "responsible" for the backlash from the mining companies in regards to the RSPT. Completely avoided the question and blamed the mining companies for misinformation and how they are not paying enough tax for the "working families" and "afterall they are mining minerals that belong to ALL Australians" .... repeated this line 3 times in the one interview. Mel asked the question again. Through clenched teeth the response was "working families" blah blah blah ...... zzzzzzzzz


----------



## -Bevo- (4 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> Completely avoided the question and blamed the mining companies for misinformation and how they are not paying enough tax for the "working families" and "afterall they are mining minerals that belong to ALL Australians" .... repeated this line 3 times in the one interview. Mel asked the question again. Through clenched teeth the response was "working families" blah blah blah ...... zzzzzzzzz




This part just S*#ts me to tears, Rudd in delibrate attempt to get his working families to side with him by telling them its there minerals he wants people to feel anger at mining companies, no mention that mining companys would pay some type of lease to state governments for the rights to mine or the number of jobs it creates and flow on effects.
Some time ago when all this wreckless Krudd spending began I knew a tax of some type would come along to help pay for it never did I think he would go about it the way he has.


----------



## moXJO (4 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Learn the Communist mantra 



> SENIOR school students will be taught about the formation of the Labor Party and union movement but little about the struggles of the conservative side of politics.
> 
> Sparking a fresh political brawl, thousands of high school history students will also be asked to examine minutes from union meetings so they can better appreciate a "worker" perspective.



http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/schools-hit-by-class-war-coalition-objects-to-labor-lessons/comments-e6freuzr-1225875238155


----------



## trainspotter (4 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

All too familiar ...... I am living in a George Orwell novel. Sound familiar?

Old Major, the old boar on the Manor Farm, calls the animals on the farm for a meeting, where he compares the humans to parasites and teaches the animals a revolutionary song, "Beasts of England."

When Major dies three days later, two young pigs, Snowball and Napoleon, assume command and turn his dream into a philosophy. The animals revolt and drive the drunken and irresponsible Mr. Jones from the farm, renaming it "Animal Farm."

The Seven Commandments of Animalism are written on the wall of a barn. The most important is the seventh, *"All animals are equal." *All the animals work, but the workhorse, Boxer, does more than others and adopts the maxim ”” *"I will work harder."*

Snowball attempts to teach the animals reading and writing; food is plentiful; and the farm runs smoothly. The pigs elevate themselves to positions of leadership and set aside special food items ostensibly for their personal health. Napoleon takes the pups from the farm dogs and trains them privately. When Mr. Jones tries retaking the farm, the animals defeat him at what they call the "Battle of the Cowshed." Napoleon and Snowball struggle for leadership. When Snowball announces his idea for a windmill, Napoleon opposes it. Snowball makes a speech in favour of the windmill, whereupon Napoleon has his dogs chase Snowball away. In Snowball's absence, Napoleon declares himself leader and makes changes. *Meetings will no longer be held and instead a committee of pigs will run the farm.*

Using a young pig named Squealer as a mouthpiece, Napoleon announces that Snowball stole the idea for the windmill from him. *The animals work harder with the promise of easier lives with the windmill. *After a violent storm, the animals find the windmill annihilated. Napoleon and Squealer convince the animals that Snowball destroyed the windmill, although the scorn of the neighbouring farmers suggests the windmill's walls were too thin. Once Snowball becomes a scapegoat, Napoleon begins purging the farm, killing animals he accuses of consorting with Snowball. Meanwhile, Boxer takes up a second maxim: *"Napoleon is always right."*


----------



## noco (4 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



moXJO said:


> Learn the Communist mantra
> 
> 
> http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/schools-hit-by-class-war-coalition-objects-to-labor-lessons/comments-e6freuzr-1225875238155




Betcha the cover of the little book will be RED with Mao's photo on the cover. How pathetic can the Labor Party be. Brian washing the younger generation is how Mao worked.


----------



## noco (4 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

All through this week Rudd has denounced the mining companies, in particular Clive Palmer, and has stated on numeruos occassions, the 40% RSPT stays and no negotiations will be entered into.
Enter Anna Bligh, and today Rudd talks about consultations with the miners, not negotaitions, which could take weeks if not mionths. What is the difference between negotiations and consultation?
IMHO Rudd is ready for a back down. That's our Prime Minister!


----------



## -Bevo- (4 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

PM urged to let his "disciples" speak 
Lindsay Fox warns of "dictator" regime 
Kevin Rudd says he's using his team 

http://www.couriermail.com.au/busin...says-lindsay-fox/story-e6freqmx-1225875632752


----------



## GumbyLearner (4 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



-Bevo- said:


> PM urged to let his "disciples" speak
> Lindsay Fox warns of "dictator" regime
> Kevin Rudd says he's using his team




Real tax reform would involve increasing the tax-free threshold to about $25,000. As the industrious Mr.Fox suggested years ago.

REAL TAX REFORM hey Churchie Boy.


----------



## Julia (4 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> All too familiar ...... I am living in a George Orwell novel. Sound familiar?...................
> 
> *"Napoleon is always right."*



Neat summary, TS.  Along with "1984" probably the best known of Orwell's fiction.  Sadly, it has turned out not to be fiction.



noco said:


> All through this week Rudd has denounced the mining companies, in particular Clive Palmer, and has stated on numeruos occassions, the 40% RSPT stays and no negotiations will be entered into.
> Enter Anna Bligh, and today Rudd talks about consultations with the miners, not negotaitions, which could take weeks if not mionths. What is the difference between negotiations and consultation?
> IMHO Rudd is ready for a back down. That's our Prime Minister!



About damn time Ms Bligh actually did something useful.


----------



## noco (7 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Does Rudd inspire confidence?
It does not look like it after today's poll.
I wonder what odds the bookies will be  offering after today.


----------



## Julia (7 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

For anyone who missed tonight's 7.30 Report interview with David Marr on the essay he has written about Rudd, following considerable one on one time with the PM, and extensive interviews with his colleagues, it's absolutely worth watching.  Completely damning of Mr Rudd whom David Marr describes as having "an angry heart", this anger being the foundation of all he is.

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2007/s1961494.htm


----------



## -Bevo- (7 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noco said:


> Does Rudd inspire confidence?
> It does not look like it after today's poll.
> I wonder what odds the bookies will be  offering after today.




Sportingbet Australia current Labour 1.47 Coalition 2.60
Good odds if you ask me.


----------



## Logique (8 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



-Bevo- said:


> Sportingbet Australia current Labour 1.47 Coalition 2.60
> Good odds if you ask me.



Coalition at 2.60 - I'd take a piece of that action!


----------



## jancha (8 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Logique said:


> Coalition at 2.60 - I'd take a piece of that action!




I would say the odds are there for a reason.
I'm with you on hoping the coalition gets up but watching the sad breaking news of two diggers killed overseas..Rudd did an excellent job of breaking that news but managed also to sell the super tax after questions were asked on a solemn note. 
Salesman made most of the sad situation..but i think he tarnished it by not sticking to the subject.


----------



## Logique (8 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> For anyone who missed tonight's 7.30 Report interview with David Marr....Completely damning of Mr Rudd whom David Marr describes as having "an angry heart", this anger being the foundation of all he is.http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2007/s1961494.htm



Hi Julia. I sat completely gobsmacked through this interview. The revered Rudd of the Left, being criticized by...David Marr? And on the (national broadcaster, completely non-partisan) ABC 7:30 report!  Dear God what next -(national broadcaster, completely non-partisan) -Tony Jones criticizing global warming alarmism?

Seems to be a lot of latter day conversions amongst the left - like St Paul at Damascus. Or is the hidden agenda to install the (even more left) 'La Gillardine'. Be very afraid.


----------



## Eljet Trader (8 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Sarah Palin gives me more confidence.


----------



## Logique (8 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

The Helen Clark Labour government in NZ - enough said. 
A period of political power, followed by the overwhelming return of a conservative government. I hope Australia doesn't make the same mistake (of being blinded, by gender bias, to the real political idealogy of their candidates).


----------



## noco (8 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



-Bevo- said:


> Sportingbet Australia current Labour 1.47 Coalition 2.60
> Good odds if you ask me.



Bevo, I think the bookies are 2 months behind the media!!! Perhaps you should update them on the latest news.


----------



## Julia (8 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Logique said:


> The Helen Clark Labour government in NZ - enough said.
> A period of political power, followed by the overwhelming return of a conservative government. I hope Australia doesn't make the same mistake (of being blinded, by gender bias, to the real political idealogy of their candidates).



Agree.  When people suggest all would be cured by swapping Mr Rudd for Ms Gillard, I don't get it at all.  They sing from the same songbook, she is just a lot more media-savvy and less tense than Rudd.
If, however, they were to elevate Stephen Smith, you'd have someone thoughtful and intelligent, whom I've never seen other than calm and measured.
If he were in charge, I'd rather vote for him than for Tony Abbott with Abbot's stand against abortion, against stem cell research and other ultra conservative, old fashioned views.


----------



## GumbyLearner (8 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I'd vote for Garpal Gumnut before Stephen Smith.


----------



## Logique (9 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> ...Abbot's stand against abortion, against stem cell research and other ultra conservative, old fashioned views.



Yes this this is the knock on him, I wish he would adopt a more contemporary stance on social policy. Wouldn't mind seeing him come out against the Sen Conroy internet filtering proposal either, unless he has and I've missed it, in which case I apologize.


----------



## Julia (9 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Logique said:


> Wouldn't mind seeing him come out against the Sen Conroy internet filtering proposal either, unless he has and I've missed it, in which case I apologize.



They are still sitting on the fence on the filter.  Suspect their natural inclination is to support it, but they are probably weighing this up with the overwhelming electorate opposition to it.  If they have any political sense, they will refuse to support it.


----------



## Putty7 (9 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> They are still sitting on the fence on the filter.  Suspect their natural inclination is to support it, but they are probably weighing this up with the overwhelming electorate opposition to it.  If they have any political sense, they will refuse to support it.




Unfortunately Julia sensoring the interent would be a great advantage to all pollies, China use it to great effect to suppress what can be said by the people.


----------



## noco (9 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> Agree.  When people suggest all would be cured by swapping Mr Rudd for Ms Gillard, I don't get it at all.  They sing from the same songbook, she is just a lot more media-savvy and less tense than Rudd.
> If, however, they were to elevate Stephen Smith, you'd have someone thoughtful and intelligent, whom I've never seen other than calm and measured.
> If he were in charge, I'd rather vote for him than for Tony Abbott with Abbot's stand against abortion, against stem cell research and other ultra conservative, old fashioned views.




Julia do you not think with modern medical science and stem cell research, that people will soon be living to 120 years and beyond? What will this all do to social securities and pensions and the cost of it?
Who will pay for it?
Maybe, just maybe, this might not be madness in Abbott's thinking, and besides who wants to live to 120. The standard of life even at 80 is not as enjoyable as it was 10,20 or 30 years ago.


----------



## Putty7 (9 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I think WA let Kevin Rudd and Wayne Swann know where they stand today and it wasn't just the organised protestors who gave them a bit of stick, very proud to be a Sandgroper today


----------



## Julia (9 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noco said:


> Julia do you not think with modern medical science and stem cell research, that people will soon be living to 120 years and beyond? What will this all do to social securities and pensions and the cost of it?
> Who will pay for it?
> Maybe, just maybe, this might not be madness in Abbott's thinking, and besides who wants to live to 120. The standard of life even at 80 is not as enjoyable as it was 10,20 or 30 years ago.



Noco, stem cell research is not necessarily to do with prolonging ordinary life, but rather to ameliorate disabling diseases, e.g. Parkinsons.  Even to possibly restore full function to paraplegics.  It's about improving the quality of life, not prolonging it.

If anything, results from this research would reduce demands on the health system because there would be less requirement to treat disease and disability.

Besides, it's imo simply morally wrong not to proceed with the possibility of offering some people a better quality of life if we can possibly do this.


----------



## noco (9 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> Noco, stem cell research is not necessarily to do with prolonging ordinary life, but rather to ameliorate disabling diseases, e.g. Parkinsons.  Even to possibly restore full function to paraplegics.  It's about improving the quality of life, not prolonging it.
> 
> If anything, results from this research would reduce demands on the health system because there would be less requirement to treat disease and disability.
> 
> Besides, it's imo simply morally wrong not to proceed with the possibility of offering some people a better quality of life if we can possibly do this.




Julia, one of the concerns of stem cell treatment is the possible risk that transplanted cells could form tumors and have the possibility of becoming cancerous if the cell division went out of control. It is still  a form of prolonging life no matter which way you look at it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell


----------



## todster (9 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Putty7 said:


> I think WA let Kevin Rudd and Wayne Swann know where they stand today and it wasn't just the organised protestors who gave them a bit of stick, very proud to be a Sandgroper today




Whats the deal with Twiggy Forrest in the hivis workshirt.
Is that the dte billionaire look
White collar rent a crowd


----------



## nulla nulla (10 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Putty7 said:


> I think WA let Kevin Rudd and Wayne Swann know where they stand today and it wasn't just the organised protestors who gave them a bit of stick, very proud to be a Sandgroper today




Odd howthe media reported it as a non event. Something about "taking what the mining media campaign had to say with agrain of salt"?


----------



## nulla nulla (10 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



todster said:


> Whats the deal with Twiggy Forrest in the hivis workshirt.
> Is that the dte billionaire look
> White collar rent a crowd




I thought twiggy and Julia Bishop looked like they were about to start a bridal waltz.


----------



## bellenuit (10 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



nulla nulla said:


> I thought twiggy and Julia Bishop looked like they were about to start a bridal waltz.




Julia Bishop was silly to allow her self to be photographed in such an intimate way with Twiggy. It gives credence to Labor's claim that the Liberals are pawns of the mining industry.


----------



## nulla nulla (10 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Maybe it was a Mae West moment, "Ooh Twiggy, is that some iron ore in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?"


----------



## Julia (10 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



nulla nulla said:


> Odd howthe media reported it as a non event. Something about "taking what the mining media campaign had to say with agrain of salt"?



It was given considerable coverage on the ABC.
On "PM" this evening, Andrew Forrest was quoted as having declared Mr Rudd now clearly understands that we are not running a scare campaign and that what we have said is all too real (paraphrasing).

Didn't see the bit with (presumably) Julie Bishop (you have 'Julia Bishop' above).


----------



## springhill (10 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



bellenuit said:


> Julia Bishop was silly to allow her self to be photographed in such an intimate way with Twiggy. It gives credence to Labor's claim that the Liberals are pawns of the mining industry.




Was i not correct in seeing Twiggy give Gillard a big smoochie on the cheek the day before?


----------



## lianeisme (11 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

All I can say about Rudd is he is an ear wax eating Savant, how embarrassing is this specimen; this hopefully will be the end of Labour party, what a mess.
First giving $900.00 to all and sundry that has paid tax in Australia for that year, including international tourists on working visa’s what a joke. Nice win fall when you get home from holiday to find check in the mail. Give me a break.
Then the insulation debacle every one jumped on that ban wagon Good one Rock God
Wife sells mining shares before the announcement of mining tax nice one. Would anyone else be questioned over this?
Giving unemployed a pay rise and slapping pensioners in the face, why give the pensioner a one off payment? Why not a real pension increase not just token raise it doesn’t even cover the cost of electricity hike. How are they supposed to live? They are better off if they divorce in their old age sad really.
What happened to the surplus guys it seems they were like a bunch of kids that found the pin number to their parent’s bank account and went on a binge trying to buy friends.
Selling Australia to overseas by relaxing the FIRB laws. Example Melbourne house price boom.
More and more Australians can no longer buy a house due to LMI policy so this has opened up the flood gates for international buyers.
Rent will go through the roof.
Where did all the unleaded fuel go????
He and Swan have managed to turn Australia into a laughing stock, in such a short time I would put him up there with Whitlam great job guys.
I could keep ranting but have come to realise people have short memories.


----------



## Logique (11 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Love your work lianeisme


> Wife sells mining shares before the announcement of mining tax nice one.



Did this really happen?


----------



## JTLP (11 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Logique said:


> Love your work lianeisme
> Did this really happen?




I too would like to know. Would be some fuel for a debate.


----------



## lianeisme (12 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Logique said:


> Love your work lianeisme
> Did this really happen?



Wife sells mining shares before the announcement of mining tax nice one.

Opps that was Swans wife not Rudd yes it did happen!!!!!
here is the link
http://au.messages.yahoo.com/news/politics/788018?p=1:mad:


----------



## lianeisme (12 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> Noco, stem cell research is not necessarily to do with prolonging ordinary life, but rather to ameliorate disabling diseases, e.g. Parkinsons.  Even to possibly restore full function to paraplegics.  It's about improving the quality of life, not prolonging it.
> 
> If anything, results from this research would reduce demands on the health system because there would be less requirement to treat disease and disability.
> 
> Besides, it's imo simply morally wrong not to proceed with the possibility of offering some people a better quality of life if we can possibly do this.




I have heard that it can also be used for people who can no longer walk like paraplegics to repair Spinal Cord Injury what a great thing to see your loved one live a life again. The Opportunities are so vast I have enclosed a link this site gives so much information in regards to this subject.
http://stemcells.nih.gov/StemCells/...fo/faqs.asp&NRCACHEHINT=NoModifyGuest#classes


----------



## Calliope (12 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Let's hope the Labor party doesn't see the light and replace Rudd with Gillard. Keeping Rudd in the job offers the best opportunity for seeing the whole gang of amateurs turfed out on their ears.

However, winning the election could be a poisoned chalice, with the winners having to deal with a Green dominated Senate. If this happens, the resources sector will really be in trouble.


----------



## todster (12 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

The Libs should have no fear of the senate,they can rely on the old policy of doing nothing.


----------



## Julia (12 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> Let's hope the Labor party doesn't see the light and replace Rudd with Gillard. Keeping Rudd in the job offers the best opportunity for seeing the whole gang of amateurs turfed out on their ears.



I've been thinking the same thing, but just can't envisage the Labor Party actually going to Kev and saying "your time's up, fella.  We want Julia to replace you".  Much more likely is that they'll go to the election with Kev, and then replace him immediately afterwards, win or lose.  He has simply lost all credibility, and Labor fans seem quite happy to overlook the rorting in the BER which has happened directly under Ms Gillard's watch.



todster said:


> The Libs should have no fear of the senate,they can rely on the old policy of doing nothing.



That doesn't seem a reasonable comment, todster.  The Senate in fact has been instrumental in ensuring bad legislation is not passed, and in modifying legislation before it's passed.   With the Greens having the balance of power, absolutely everything would be sacrificed before the ultra-Green altar.
If that happened, the mining industry might as well pack up and go elsewhere.  The Greens wouldn't have the first clue about running the economy.
Only thing in their favour is their progressive social policy.


----------



## todster (12 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> I've been thinking the same thing, but just can't envisage the Labor Party actually going to Kev and saying "your time's up, fella.  We want Julia to replace you".  Much more likely is that they'll go to the election with Kev, and then replace him immediately afterwards, win or lose.  He has simply lost all credibility, and Labor fans seem quite happy to overlook the rorting in the BER which has happened directly under Ms Gillard's watch.
> 
> 
> That doesn't seem a reasonable comment, todster.  The Senate in fact has been instrumental in ensuring bad legislation is not passed, and in modifying legislation before it's passed.   With the Greens having the balance of power, absolutely everything would be sacrificed before the ultra-Green altar.
> ...




But Julia besides fiscal policy that might have suited you what did they actually do in 10 years?


----------



## Logique (13 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> With the Greens having the balance of power, absolutely everything would be sacrificed before the ultra-Green altar.
> If that happened, the mining industry might as well pack up and go elsewhere.  The Greens wouldn't have the first clue about running the economy.
> Only thing in their favour is their progressive social policy.



Shudder. A Greens balance of power is the stuff of nightmares. 
The exit of capital investment from this country would be unprecedented.  Don't know if journalist David Marr is a Green, but his slavish attempts to sell the super tax on ABC TV 'Insiders' this morning turned my stomach. This immediately after Barry Cassidy had informed us that Labor's primary vote in WA had slumped to 28%.
On the issue of the Greens progressive social policies, is it still in their platform that drugs should be legalized?


----------



## trainspotter (16 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

NANCY REAGAN - We could all learn so much from this elegant and gracious lady.

You might recall that John Hinckley was a seriously deranged young man who shot President Reagan in the early 1980's. 

Hinckley was absolutely obsessed with movie star Jodie Foster and, in his twisted mind, loved Jodie to the point that, to make himself well known to her, he attempted to assassinate President Reagan. 

There is speculation Hinckley may soon be released having been rehabilitated. 

Consequently, you will appreciate the following letter from Nancy Reagan to John Hinckley.


To: John Hinckley
From: Mrs. Nancy Reagan

My family and I wanted to drop you a short note to tell you how pleased we are with the great strides you are making in your recovery. 

In our country's spirit of understanding and forgiveness, we want you to know that we bear no grudge against you for shooting President Reagan. 

We are fully aware that mental stress and pain could have driven you to such an act of desperation. We're confident that you will soon make a complete recovery and return to your family to join the world again as a healthy and productive man.

Best wishes,
Nancy Reagan & Family


*P.S. While you have been incarcerated, Kevin Rudd has been banging Jodie Foster like a screen door in a tornado. You might want to look into that. *


----------



## matty77 (16 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



lianeisme said:


> What happened to the surplus guys it seems they were like a bunch of kids that found the pin number to their parent’s bank account and went on a binge trying to buy friends.




haha this is the best description of the current government I have read lately, made me laugh


----------



## dutchie (16 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> *P.S. While you have been incarcerated, Kevin Rudd has been banging Jodie Foster like a screen door in a tornado. You might want to look into that. *




LOL

The Krudd would not have it in him. Besides Jodie would be able to hold him off with one hand tied behind her back.


----------



## todster (16 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> NANCY REAGAN - We could all learn so much from this elegant and gracious lady.
> 
> You might recall that John Hinckley was a seriously deranged young man who shot President Reagan in the early 1980's.
> 
> ...




Since your inspiring visuals picture Kevin nude
you started it


----------



## DB008 (16 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Got this in my e-mail this afternoon.




Fw:Fw:Fw:Fw:Fw:


With breathless anticipation, the crowd awaits

the unveiling of the Kevin Rudd statue.


----------



## trainspotter (17 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



todster said:


> Since your inspiring visuals picture Kevin nude
> you started it




I saw this guy down the beach the other day ........ honest ! Wonder if he knows Jodie Foster?


----------



## Buckfont (17 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

This is doing the rounds at the moment

AUSTRALIAN WAY

No matter what side of the AISLE you're on, THIS is FUNNY and VERY telling! It just all depends on how you look at some things.

Judy Rudd, an amateur genealogy researcher in southern Queensland, was doing some personal work on her own family tree. She discovered that Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's great-great uncle, Remus Rudd, was hanged for horse stealing and train robbery in Melbourne in 1889. Both Judy and Kevin Rudd share this common ancestor.



The only known photograph of Remus shows him standing on the gallows at the Melbourne Gaol.

On the back of the picture Judy obtained during her research is this inscription: 'Remus Rudd horse thief, sent to Melbourne Gaol 1885, escaped 1887, robbed the Melbourne-Geelong train six times. Caught by Victoria Police Force, convicted and hanged in 1889.'




So Judy recently e-mailed Prime Minister Rudd for information about their great-great uncle, Remus Rudd.

Believe it or not, Kevin Rudd's staff sent back the following biographical sketch for her genealogy research:

"Remus Rudd was famous in Victoria during the mid to late 1800s. His business empire grew to include acquisition of valuable equestrian assets and intimate dealings with the Melbourne-Geelong Railroad.
Beginning in 1883, he devoted several years of his life to government service, finally taking leave to resume his dealings with the railroad.
In 1887, he was a key player in a vital investigation run by the Victoria Police Force. In 1889, Remus passed away during an important civic function held in his honour when the platform upon which he was standing collapsed."

That's how it's done, Folks!

NOW, that's real POLITICAL SPIN.


----------



## noco (17 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

If the pictures don't show don't worry you don't need them to get the gist! 



THE COW AND THE ICE CREAM 



ONE OF THE BEST EXPLANATIONS 

ON HOW RUDD WON THE ELECTION - don't make the same mistake twice!



From a teacher in the  Geelong  area 

"We are worried about 'the cow' when it is all about the 'Ice Cream.' 


The most eye-opening civics lesson I ever had was while teaching third grade this year... 






The election was heating up and some of the children showed an interest. 

I decided we would have an election for a class president. 

We would choose our nominees. They would make a campaign speech and the class   would vote. 

To simplify the process, candidates were nominated by other class members. 

We discussed what kinds of characteristics these students should have. 

We got many nominations and from those, Jamie and Olivia were picked to run for the      top spot. 

The class had done a great job in their selections. Both candidates were good kids. 

I thought Jamie might have an advantage because he got lots of parental support. 

I had never seen Olivia's mother. 

The day arrived when they were to make their speeches.   

Jamie went first. 

He had specific ideas about how to make our class a better place. 
He ended by promising to do his very best. 

Everyone applauded and he sat down. 

Now it was Olivia's turn to speak. 

Her speech was concise. 

She said, "If you will vote for me, I will give you ice cream." 

She sat down. 

The class went wild. "Yes! Yes!   We want ice cream." 

She surely would say more. She did not have to. 

A discussion followed. How did she plan to pay for the ice cream? 

She wasn't sure. 

Would her parents buy it or would the class pay for it. 

She didn't know. 

The class really didn't care. 

All they were thinking about was ice cream. 

Jamie was forgotten.  Olivia won by a landslide. 

Every time Rudd opened his mouth he offered ice cream and 
52 percent of the people reacted like nine year olds. 

They want ice cream. 

The other 48 percent know they're going to have to feed the cow and clean up the mess." 

This is the ice cream Rudd promised us! 



Remember, the government cannot give anything to anyone -- 
that they have not first taken away from someone else.


----------



## todster (18 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noco said:


> If the pictures don't show don't worry you don't need them to get the gist!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




But i like ice cream


----------



## noco (18 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



todster said:


> But i like ice cream




When you get to voting age, you may change your mind.
The ice cream Rudd serves up is brown and the taste is terrible.


----------



## todster (18 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noco said:


> When you get to voting age, you may change your mind.
> The ice cream Rudd serves up is brown and the taste is terrible.




Growing old is inevitable
Growing up is optional


----------



## noco (20 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Rudd has once again found a diversion from the SPRT on miners.

* Parental leave is passed by the senate.

* The big deal with Teltra on the NBN.

Rudd must be relieved he has the media NOT talking about the "HOT POTATO".


----------



## JTLP (20 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Tara Brown's interview on 60 minutes tonight was interesting. Once again Rudd fires a question back at a question to avoid answering anything. Weak, weak man. His wife then had to come on and say the thing that drives him is Compassion! What a classic!

Another thing of note...that Penrith by-election had a 7% swing to the Greens as well!


----------



## Julia (20 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



JTLP said:


> His wife then had to come on and say the thing that drives him is Compassion! What a classic!



I felt like throwing up at this!   Compassion???   Like hell.
Pure hubris and self aggrandisement, more likely.
I suppose she's just doing her, um, wifely duty.  And probably she rather likes living in the Lodge.


----------



## sails (21 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> I felt like throwing up at this!   Compassion???   Like hell.
> Pure hubris and self aggrandisement, more likely.
> I suppose she's just doing her, um, wifely duty.  And probably she rather likes living in the Lodge.




Well said, Julia and describes my own sentiments exactly when watching the show. "Compassionate" is not how I would describe him nor were the rumors from insiders complimentary when he was in Qld govt. 

Is she in love with the grandeur and prestige that goes with hubby being PM?  So many perks with housekeepers, free overseas travel, functions and dining with VIPs. IMO it was simply another attempt to distract the sheeple into the illusion that all is well.

Me thinks this is all the beginnings of another 2007 style of slick marketing campaign to get himself back into running the country as a one man show (as, I think, Graham Richardson pointed out) for another three years...

While running the country doesn't appear to be one of Rudd's abilities, clever marketing and illusions does appear to be something he knows how to do well.  

Very disturbing and frightening for Australia's future if he plays his pipe and Aussies come under his "nice man" spell once again.

IMO , Aussies need to be very vigilent over the next few weeks...

My


----------



## Trembling Hand (21 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

What does it feel like spending 11 billion dollar of tax payers money to counter a bad poll?


----------



## moXJO (21 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Trembling Hand said:


> What does it feel like spending 11 billion dollar of tax payers money to counter a bad poll?




Wasn't "Time for Change" part of their last election slogan?
Little did we know that 'Change' was a reference to how much money would be left in our pockets after labors spendathon


----------



## trainspotter (21 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Was it just me or was Tara Brown hitting him with a feather? The questions were peurile and did not illicit the reponses she was trying to obtain. Face reading the nostrils flared and the eyelids headed North on several occasions. I thought just when she could have flipped the switch from measured control to rabid madman she stopped short ? It all seemed a bit too contrived for me. It was not a hack job, it was not a snow job? 

It actually seemed to me a very poorly researched interview without much basis on facts or figures. Not hard hitting and not really going for the jugular on the tough personality questions. Then to have Mother Therese bleat on how wonderful and "compassionate" her husband is !! For crying out loud ! Derrrrrrrrrr ...... nope she gonna come out and say he has a temper like a militant trade unionist bikie and eats small children for breakfast and loves to screw the voting public for all they are worth. For Chrissake ! Then the crocodile tears welled up and she says "I get so emotional on this subject because he cares so much" ...... vomit.


----------



## noco (21 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



moXJO said:


> Wasn't "Time for Change" part of their last election slogan?
> Little did we know that 'Change' was a reference to how much money would be left in our pockets after labors spendathon




From what I gather, this big deal with Telstra on the NBN is not yet a "done deal". Things might still change.


----------



## GumbyLearner (21 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Kevin 0Lemon

Only driven to church on Sundays


----------



## Julia (21 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> It actually seemed to me a very poorly researched interview without much basis on facts or figures. Not hard hitting and not really going for the jugular on the tough personality questions. Then to have Mother Therese bleat on how wonderful and "compassionate" her husband is !! For crying out loud ! Derrrrrrrrrr ...... nope she gonna come out and say he has a temper like a militant trade unionist bikie and eats small children for breakfast and loves to screw the voting public for all they are worth. For Chrissake ! Then the crocodile tears welled up and she says "I get so emotional on this subject because he cares so much" ...... vomit.



I agree on all points.  But really I don't know why you're even a bit surprised about this.  It was typical 60 Minutes crap.  Shows how desperate Rudd is that he'd agree to be part of it.



noco said:


> From what I gather, this big deal with Telstra on the NBN is not yet a "done deal". Things might still change.



Yes, I heard two telecommunications specialists today saying shareholders shouldn't get too carried away at this stage of what is a non-binding agreement from which Telstra can walk away at any stage.
The suggestion was made that Telstra have been quite smart about this and left themselves flexibility to cope with the possibility that the government will change and the NBN will be scrapped.




GumbyLearner said:


> Kevin 0Lemon
> 
> Only driven to church on Sundays




That's a truly awful advt.


----------



## moXJO (24 June 2010)

*Rudd song dedications*

Our beloved PM how could this happen 
You never know what you have till it's gone:


----------



## springhill (24 June 2010)

*Re: Rudd Song dedications*

Na na nana, na na nana, hey hey hey, goodbyeeeeee!


----------



## AngusSmart (24 June 2010)

*Re: Rudd song dedications*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MJspL232c8


----------



## Timmy (24 June 2010)

*Re: Rudd song dedications*

Good thread! 

May as well burn some bridges with the break-up song
 (*Language warning*):


----------



## trainspotter (24 June 2010)

*Re: Rudd song dedications*


----------



## Calliope (24 June 2010)

*Re: Rudd song dedications*

One of the bitterest pills for Rudd to swallow is that Wayne Swan, whom  he hates, is swanning off to Canada tomorrow to take Rudd's place at the G20 meeting along with the other high profile world leaders.


----------



## Julia (24 June 2010)

*Re: Rudd song dedications*



Calliope said:


> One of the bitterest pills for Rudd to swallow is that Wayne Swan, whom  he hates, is swanning off to Canada tomorrow to take Rudd's place at the G20 meeting along with the other high profile world leaders.



Yep, that must be really tough.  I didn't know Rudd hated Swan?   What's the basis for this and how do you know that, Calliope?

To be fair to Kevin Rudd, he behaved with a fair bit of courage today, even managed to be a bit funny.  Must have been hell for him.


----------



## todster (24 June 2010)

*Re: Rudd song dedications*



Calliope said:


> One of the bitterest pills for Rudd to swallow is that Wayne Swan, whom  he hates, is swanning off to Canada tomorrow to take Rudd's place at the G20 meeting along with the other high profile world leaders.





Dunno mate i reckon if i had just been shafted by my peers i would be quite happy to go home to the family and maybe reflect a bit not rush off overseas,
When things get tough rally round the family
You are so far off the mark,engage the brain before pressing enter


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (24 June 2010)

*Re: Rudd song dedications*



Julia said:


> Yep, that must be really tough.  I didn't know Rudd hated Swan?   What's the basis for this and how do you know that, Calliope?
> 
> To be fair to Kevin Rudd, he behaved with a fair bit of courage today, even managed to be a bit funny.  Must have been hell for him.




Its true, Julia, Swan and Rudd were the unlikeliest pair. Swan hates Rudd and vizey verzie alright.

gg


----------



## prozac (27 June 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Thanks everyone i have really enjoyed reading most of your posts...at kevin's expense of-course.


----------



## Calliope (2 July 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Right until the end Rudd stuck to his duplicity of promising one thing and and making a ballsup of the delivery.



> *Eight words for the price of one. Rudd leaves the Lodge:
> 
> MY last message to the Australian people from this residence is very simple. All I'd say is one word and that is: "Thank you for the opportunity to serve Australia."*




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...ame-howard-again/story-e6frg6zo-1225886887486


----------



## Timmy (13 July 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

*Fuddruckers Files for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection*
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704133804575198481664069038.html

Guess business sorta dried up


----------



## Calliope (13 July 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Timmy said:


> *
> Guess business sorta dried up *



*

They sound like a bunch of fat ruckers.*


----------



## trainspotter (14 July 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Hey guys it’s me Kevin Rudd. Remember that $900 I lent you last year?

Yeah, I lost my job and I’m gonna need that back…..


----------



## nunthewiser (14 July 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



trainspotter said:


> Hey guys it’s me Kevin Rudd. Remember that $900 I lent you last year?
> 
> Yeah, I lost my job and I’m gonna need that back…..




Sorry Bro i spent mine on cheap wine and hookers.

any chance of some more?


----------



## billGhah (16 July 2010)

*Re: Rudd song dedications*

The best one is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ70opdCazI


----------



## nunthewiser (17 July 2010)

*Re: Rudd song dedications*


----------



## GumbyLearner (17 July 2010)

*Re: Rudd song dedications*


----------



## GumbyLearner (17 July 2010)

*Re: Rudd song dedications*

Don't ask me it's just the way it is!


----------



## GumbyLearner (17 July 2010)

*Re: Rudd song dedications*

Don't ask me it's just the way it is!

RUN DMC/Jason Nevins The Way it is!


----------



## GumbyLearner (17 July 2010)

*Re: Rudd song dedications*

Turn it down boy! 

Turn that noise down boy.


----------



## GumbyLearner (17 July 2010)

*Re: Rudd song dedications*



Oops sorry that was for Gilltard


----------



## nulla nulla (17 July 2010)

*Re: Rudd song dedications*

He is young, he is patient and he may be thinking.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIE2GAqnFGw


----------



## jbocker (18 July 2010)

*Re: Rudd song dedications*

Can believe someone hasnt already posted this! Johny and Juli get mentions too!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsYJyVEUaC4


----------



## Buckfont (18 July 2010)

*Re: Rudd song dedications*



jbocker said:


> Can believe someone hasnt already posted this! Johny and Juli get mentions too!!
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsYJyVEUaC4




Sorry to spoil the party jbocker but you`ll find its Judy, close, but no cigar.

http://www.metrolyrics.com/its-my-party-lyrics-lesley-gore.html


----------



## jbocker (18 July 2010)

*Re: Rudd song dedications*



Buckfont said:


> Sorry to spoil the party jbocker but you`ll find its Judy, close, but no cigar.
> 
> http://www.metrolyrics.com/its-my-party-lyrics-lesley-gore.html




You are right Buckfront.  Well been thinking about it for while but now I am off to get my hearing checked, it keeps sounding like 'Julie' to me. In the return song "Judys turn to cry", I can hear the Judy (just) is it unclear for anyone else???


----------



## IFocus (22 July 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

A mate of mind sent me this 


HE SHOULD HAVE SEEN IT COMING 

On a bitterly cold morning in Canberra , K Rudd ( just before he was assassinated by his mates) is being chauffeured to Parliament House.
It is so cold that Lake Burley Griffin has frozen over. 
As he jumps out of the Caprice, Kevy looks over the Lake & notices that someone has "peed" on the ice and left a message ......"K RUDD SUCKS". 

KRUDD is enraged and orders ASIO to investigate with "no expenses spared" and to report within two days. 
Two days later, the head of ASIO reports to the PM and says...."our investigation is over and I have three pieces of news for you....one good news, one bad news and one terribly bad shocking news". 
Well says Kevy, give me the good news. The head of ASIO says..."We spent $2 million dollars on the investigation and have come to a successful result". 
Well says Kevy what's the bad news? 
The ASIO boss says "The DNA testing shows the urine is Wayne Swann's". Kevy is shocked beyond belief. 

Looking pale, Kevy says" and what is the terribly bad shocking news?" 
The ASIO chief replies...." It's Julia Gillard's hand writing".


----------



## Calliope (30 July 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

This is my first post where I have been able to show confidence in Kevin Rudd.

I am confident he will get even with Gillard, Shorten and the rest of the gang who toppled him.  He has now moved into the second stage of handling grief/loss. He has moved from Denial to Anger (revenge).

When our Kevin was rat-f****d by the Chinese there wasn't much he could do to  return the compliment to a billion Chinese.

But being rat-f****d by Julia and her gang was a different proposition. He has the weapons to return the gang rape in spades.

There are interesting times ahead.


----------



## pilots (30 July 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

If I was the one doing the leaks I would hold the best one for one week b4 the election, this would have the most impact on Labor.


----------



## noco (30 July 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Calliope said:


> This is my first post where I have been able to show confidence in Kevin Rudd.
> 
> I am confident he will get even with Gillard, Shorten and the rest of the gang who toppled him.  He has now moved into the second stage of handling grief/loss. He has moved from Denial to Anger (revenge).
> 
> ...




Yes, and Mark Latham did not help the cause of this now defuncted  Labor Party last night with his suggestion that Rudd is the 'leaky can'. 
Poor JOOYLA MUST BE TEARING HER BRIGHT RED HAIR OUT AT THE ROOTS.
What else could she expect after what she did to our Kevvie in Queensland.
REVENGE, REVENGE, REVENGE.


----------



## pilots (30 July 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Noco, Its strange that now people that HATED Rudd, now support him after what the Labor party did to him, Julia should have given him a top job overseas to keep him happy. The boys in the back room of the Labor party have poo poo in its nest big time.


----------



## Calliope (3 August 2010)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



> Former prime minister Kevin Rudd had a restless night after his release from hospital, his wife Therese Rein says.
> 
> But he is following doctor's orders to take it easy as he recovers from surgery to remove his gall bladder.
> 
> "Well, I'd like to say he had a peaceful night, but unfortunately for me ... he had a restless night, so I'm a bit weary this morning,'' Ms Rein told the ABC.




I'm not surprised. He usually sleeps only three hours a night.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/restless-night-for-recovering-rudd-20100803-113vr.html


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (22 August 2010)

*Kevin Rudd For Speaker*

This was a suggestion from Andrew Bolt on Insiders today.

If the Coalition get the independents on side, making Rudd speaker would be a masterly move.

He would feel important and could lord it over everyone and not have a deliberative vote.

In addition he would keep his "mates" in Labor in line.

Brilliant.

gg


----------



## noco (22 August 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd For Speaker*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> This was a suggestion from Andrew Bolt on Insiders today.
> 
> If the Coalition get the independents on side, making Rudd speaker would be a masterly move.
> 
> ...




GG, you and Andrew are only dreaming the impossible DREAM.


----------



## wildkactus (22 August 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd For Speaker*

It makes sense, why waste a vote in the house.

put someone in the chair that is basically in the middle of both parties!!

anyway interesting times.


----------



## Calliope (22 August 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd For Speaker*

Talk about throwing the cat among the pigeons:shoot: I think the idea has merit, and I can't think of anything Julia would hate more.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (22 August 2010)

*Re: Kevin Rudd For Speaker*

My contacts in the CFMEU tell me that a mole of theirs in Casa Rudd related a 20 minute conversation that Chairman Rudd had with Tony Abbott after prayers this morning. 

He (Rudd) seemed genuinely baffled afterwards, started counting his fingers,  and was heard to mutter, Speaker/UN, Foreign Minister/UN repeatedly for a good five minutes.

Someone really needs to give the poor bloke a break and take him out of his misery.

With Rudd as Speaker and the Coalition running the Reps, at least we would have a functioning Guvmin as Marn Fergzin would say.

Then just before the next election , Rudd could be put up as Sec. Gen. of the UN and then the whole wide bloody world would have to put up with the silly bastard.

gg


----------



## noco (1 January 2011)

*Re: Who was Kevin Rudd before he was Leader of the Opposition?*

Could this have been true about Kevin Rudd in his uni days and is he still inspired by a Marxist dictator?
What was Rudd's intentions during his term as Prime Minister and now as Foreign Minister?
He seems to bloting his copt book no matter where he goes.


http://blogs.news.com.au/couriermai...lares_a_dicatatorial_marxist_his_inspiration/


----------



## sptrawler (20 July 2011)

*Kevin Rudd going in for heart surgery*

Its unfortunate to hear Kevin has to go in for heart surgery all that air travel must have taken its toll. 
I hope it all goes well and look forward to seeing it on R.P.A


----------



## pixel (20 July 2011)

*Re: Kevin Rudd going in for heart surgery*



sptrawler said:


> Its unfortunate to hear Kevin has to go in for heart surgery all that air travel must have taken its toll.
> *I hope it all goes well *and look forward to seeing it on R.P.A



 Hear Hear! Good luck to him.


----------



## Crom (20 July 2011)

*Re: Kevin Rudd going in for heart surgery*

I wonder if they will find one!


----------



## pixel (20 July 2011)

*Re: Kevin Rudd going in for heart surgery*

details in the Telegraph:
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...his-aortic-valve/story-e6freuy9-1226098333916


> *FOREIGN Minister Kevin Rudd will have major heart surgery next month to have his aortic valve replaced.                                  *                               Mr Rudd underwent the same surgery two decades ago.
> The former Prime Minister said he would return to work upon his recovery.
> Immigration   Minister Chris Bowen has wished Mr Rudd well with his surgery and said   it would have no impact on the minority Gillard government.
> Mr Rudd said cardiac surgeons were making plans for the operation to replace the valve.
> ...


----------



## Bigukraine (20 July 2011)

*Re: Kevin Rudd going in for heart surgery*

i think they may find a few knives in it with the initals of jg on the handle


----------



## Synergy (20 July 2011)

*Re: Kevin Rudd going in for heart surgery*

So Krudd's got krud blocking his valves?


----------



## Happy (20 July 2011)

*Re: Kevin Rudd going in for heart surgery*

Amazing that this is the closest thing to toppling down this Government.
3% risk of by-election.

Harsh thing to say, but no other risk of having early elections.

Troughs are too good to let them go before time is up.
On personal level I wish former PM all the best.


----------



## drsmith (20 July 2011)

*Re: Kevin Rudd going in for heart surgery*



Crom said:


> I wonder if they will find one!



What they might find is that surgery has allready been performed and the wound still tender.


----------



## Julia (20 July 2011)

*Re: Kevin Rudd going in for heart surgery*



Happy said:


> Amazing that this is the closest thing to toppling down this Government.
> 3% risk of by-election.
> 
> Harsh thing to say, but no other risk of having early elections.



It's a reasonable consideration, but he will be handled with kid gloves and the likelihood of him not returning to work in a couple of months is probably minimal.



> On personal level I wish former PM all the best.



I do also.  He's a human being, and has been pretty unfortunate to have had rheumatic fever as a kid and hence the crappy valves.  Whatever his personal disattributes, he has sure as hell had a tough year.


----------



## noco (20 July 2011)

*Re: Kevin Rudd going in for heart surgery*

As I mentioned in my post #261 "Where the hell is Australia heading", it was rumoured there was a Labor MP with a serious illness. Looks like it was Kevin Rudd.

I do not wish Kevin any harm and I do genuinely wish him a speedy recovery. However, if something did go wrong and he was unable to return to work on medical advice, the result would lead to a by-election.


----------



## noco (21 July 2011)

*Re: Kevin Rudd going in for heart surgery*



noco said:


> As I mentioned in my post #261 "Where the hell is Australia heading", it was rumoured there was a Labor MP with a serious illness. Looks like it was Kevin Rudd.
> 
> I do not wish Kevin any harm and I do genuinely wish him a speedy recovery. However, if something did go wrong and he was unable to return to work on medical advice, the result would lead to a by-election.




A new little tit bit. Our Kevvie may resign after his op and create a by-election. Revenge on his back stabber so they say.


----------



## sails (22 July 2011)

*Re: Kevin Rudd going in for heart surgery*



noco said:


> A new little tit bit. Our Kevvie may resign after his op and create a by-election. Revenge on his back stabber so they say.





I don't know, Noco.  He's having too much fun at Aussie taxpayer expense with billions of our funds to throw where ever he wills seemingly to make an impression on the world stage and, probably most importantly for him, to get a seat on the UN.  I don't think this operation would prevent him for his seeming longer term goals.

However, if he could become a national hero if did resign and it ultimately resulted in labor's demise which would stop Gillard and Brown being like bulls in a china shop.  Oh well, we can only hope that something will stop the present regime doing more damage.

Maybe it will also give him time for some reflection to look at things differently. However, politics aside, I certainly wish him all the best with his surgery and a speedy recovery.


----------



## tinhat (22 July 2011)

*Re: Kevin Rudd going in for heart surgery*



noco said:


> A new little tit bit. Our Kevvie may resign after his op and create a by-election. Revenge on his back stabber so they say.




The rumour is that down at ALP headquarters they are working on CGI Kevin. Link to leaked video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKLF7jzxpyA


----------



## Julia (22 July 2011)

*Re: Kevin Rudd going in for heart surgery*

That link took me to some baby going 'ga ga' and nothing about our Kev.


----------



## noco (22 July 2011)

*Re: Kevin Rudd going in for heart surgery*



sails said:


> I don't know, Noco.  He's having too much fun at Aussie taxpayer expense with billions of our funds to throw where ever he wills seemingly to make an impression on the world stage and, probably most importantly for him, to get a seat on the UN.  I don't think this operation would prevent him for his seeming longer term goals.
> 
> However, if he could become a national hero if did resign and it ultimately resulted in labor's demise which would stop Gillard and Brown being like bulls in a china shop.  Oh well, we can only hope that something will stop the present regime doing more damage.
> 
> Maybe it will also give him time for some reflection to look at things differently. However, politics aside, I certainly wish him all the best with his surgery and a speedy recovery.




sails, I believe Rudd had high hopes of becoming UN Secratary General until Ki-Moon decided to continue for another 5 years. It was his stratergy to flip around the world for 18 months to popularise himself with world leaders hoping he would be the choosen one. This is what Ki-Moon did before he became UN SG.

When Rudd found out Ki-Moon wanted another 5 years from 01/01/2012, he then decided to test the waters back home for his old job. He now realizes that option is a no goer. So I believe he and Terize are planning to live in England or Europe to pursue her busness interests.

The tit bit I heard may or may not be right, but he may use his doctors advise to quit politics and leave JU-LIAR up the creek without a paddle. He might yet be become Australian of the year.


----------



## sails (22 July 2011)

*Re: Kevin Rudd going in for heart surgery*



noco said:


> ... He might yet be become Australian of the year.




If he bailed Australia out of this mess, you might be right...lol


----------



## noco (22 July 2011)

*Re: Kevin Rudd going in for heart surgery*



sails said:


> If he bailed Australia out of this mess, you might be right...lol




I reckon he would be hailed a hero.


----------



## Julia (22 July 2011)

*Re: Kevin Rudd going in for heart surgery*

Suspect the above is a delicious fantasy.
Mr Rudd has already stated quite firmly his intention to return to work approximately two months after the surgery.  His cardiac surgeon was on the radio saying our Kev is in good shape for the surgery, and should come through to see a full return to peak health.


----------



## noco (22 July 2011)

*Re: Kevin Rudd going in for heart surgery*



Julia said:


> Suspect the above is a delicious fantasy.
> Mr Rudd has already stated quite firmly his intention to return to work approximately two months after the surgery.  His cardiac surgeon was on the radio saying our Kev is in good shape for the surgery, and should come through to see a full return to peak health.




Julia, Rudd's surgeon may well have said he will be fit to return to work, but he did not say what type of work. It may well be to assist his beloved Terize.

 Do you really believe in what these Labor people say and what they actually do?

Do you really believe he would make his intentions clear of what he will do before his  recouperation from heart surgery? If he is going to do what I believe he will do, any plans he may have will not be announced until after the event. 

I will apologise to you if I am wrong.


----------



## Logique (23 July 2011)

*Re: Kevin Rudd going in for heart surgery*



noco said:


> ...When Rudd found out Ki-Moon wanted another 5 years from 01/01/2012, he then decided to test the waters back home for his old job. He now realizes that option is a no goer....he may use his doctors advise to quit politics...



That actually seems credible to me. The Rudds don't need the money or the aggravation. It wears you out, being on the road, and big operations seem to give people a new perspective on their lives. The temptation to leave politics must now be very strong, and boy, what a final flourish it would be! 

The irony of it all. As a PM, history will treat Kevin Rudd far more kindly than his successor, the 'Usurper'. 

Genuine best wishes to Mr Rudd for the success of the procedure, some things are more important than politics.


----------



## Julia (23 July 2011)

*Re: Kevin Rudd going in for heart surgery*



noco said:


> Julia, Rudd's surgeon may well have said he will be fit to return to work, but he did not say what type of work. It may well be to assist his beloved Terize.
> 
> Do you really believe in what these Labor people say and what they actually do?
> 
> ...



I am simply reporting what I heard, not offering a view about what will happen.
If your suggestion is correct, no one would be happier than I, and I'd absolutely not be looking for any apology from you!


----------



## pixel (23 July 2011)

*Re: Kevin Rudd going in for heart surgery*



Logique said:


> That actually seems credible to me. The Rudds don't need the money or the aggravation. It wears you out, being on the road, and big operations seem to give people a new perspective on their lives. The temptation to leave politics must now be very strong, and boy, what a final flourish it would be!
> ...
> Genuine best wishes to Mr Rudd for the success of the procedure, *some things are more important than politics.*



 Spot-on, Logique;
and that goes not only for politics, but any occupation. If you get a wake-up call, you either act on it, or you're dead.
(Some people, however, don't know when it's time to quit, retire, smell the roses...)

And then there is this little gem, allegedly uttered by Edward Langley: 







> What this country needs are more unemployed politicians.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (23 July 2011)

*Re: Kevin Rudd going in for heart surgery*

I hear he is having his "Inner Nerd" replaced while they are in there. His "Outer Nerd" will remain, as it has some years left to go.

gg


----------



## steve foulds (23 July 2011)

*Re: Kevin Rudd going in for heart surgery*

He's stated the heart surgery wont make one aorta of difference to his role


----------



## sails (23 July 2011)

*Re: Kevin Rudd going in for heart surgery*



steve foulds said:


> He's stated the heart surgery wont make one aorta of difference to his role




You may be right, however, politicians are not usually ones to tell the world what they might be planning.

In case you've forgotten, Gillard was going to achieve all sorts of impossible tasks rather than be PM and only weeks before she happily knifed Rudd.


----------



## tinhat (23 July 2011)

*Re: Kevin Rudd going in for heart surgery*



steve foulds said:


> He's stated the heart surgery wont make one aorta of difference to his role




He is keeping a sanguine disposition.


----------



## Calliope (27 September 2011)

*Rudd Redux?*

*Jet-lagged Rudd 'happy being prime minister.* Freudian slip or is he opening his campaign with a googly?




> Freudian slip? ... Kevin Rudd has blamed jet lag for the gaffe.
> Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd has blamed jet lag for an unfortunate gaffe during a radio interview.
> 
> ‘‘I’m a very happy little vegemite being prime minister ... being foreign minister of Australia,’’ he told ABC Central West in Orange, NSW, today.
> ...






Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/j...me-minister-20110927-1kuhu.html#ixzz1Z6vKxQSW


----------



## drsmith (27 September 2011)

*Re: Rudd Redux?*



> Mr Rudd said he ‘‘fully supported the prime minister’’ but did not use Ms Gillard’s name.



Correct. He didn't.

Naughty boy.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/kevin-747-rudds-jumbo-pm-gaffe-20110927-1kui5.html


----------



## bellenuit (27 September 2011)

*Re: Rudd Redux?*



Calliope said:


> Mr Rudd said he ‘‘fully supported the prime minister’’ but did not use Ms Gillard’s name.




That's the third Labor MP that has said that in the last 2 days. They said they fully support the prime minister, but didn't mention Gillard by name. One was Penny Wong and a few minutes ago on Sky, I can't remember her name, but it is the lady that sits behind the PM and spends all of question time nodding her head to what ever the PM says.


----------



## dutchie (27 September 2011)

*Re: Rudd Redux?*



bellenuit said:


> but it is the lady that sits behind the PM and spends all of question time nodding her head to what ever the PM says.




They are called "bobbleheads" and there is only air inside them.


----------



## Calliope (28 September 2011)

*Re: Rudd Redux?*

The plot thickens.



> A PLAN to foil a Kevin Rudd comeback with a third challenger has been canvassed among senior right MPs in the event Julia Gillard's leadership comes under threat.
> In a sign that even key backers of Julia Gillard are concerned her leadership could soon be in jeopardy, discussions have taken place over running Defence Minister Stephen Smith as a rope- a-dope candidate against Mr Rudd.
> The suggestion is that Mr Smith might be a more acceptable candidate to many members of the party's dominant right faction, should the caucus decide on a change.




Down in the mouth?






Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/lea...us/story-e6frfkvr-1226148729780#ixzz1ZCPESDGg


----------



## Calliope (30 September 2011)

*Re: Rudd Redux?*

It is strange that in the recent Galaxy poll, in answer to the question;

Who would be the best choice for leader of the Labor Party?

64% of Coalition voters chose Rudd, and only 13% for Gillard.

In answer to the question;

Who do you think gives Labor the best chance of winning the next election?

75% of Coalition voters said Rudd, and 11% said Gillard. 

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ng-next-election/story-e6freoof-1226152302903


Something doesn't add up here;

Why would the majority of Coalition voters prefer the Labor party to be led by someone, whom they think has a better chance of beating them?


----------



## Julia (30 September 2011)

*Re: Rudd Redux?*



Calliope said:


> Why would the majority of Coalition voters prefer the Labor party to be led by someone, whom they think has a better chance of beating them?



My interpretation would be that they gave that answer from the point of view of which person would be most beneficial to the Labor Party.

Similar comments have been made on this forum when discussing how the Labor Party could save itself.


----------



## sails (30 September 2011)

*Re: Rudd Redux?*

I don't understand why the poll only gave the choice of Gillard and Rudd.  Rudd was on the nose when she knifed him - it seems silly to have those two as the only choice.  Both were involved in wrecking the Pacific solution and both want carbon priced.  It seems to me that the high polling for Rudd is more of a reaction due to Gillard's massive unpopularity.

Why didn't they also offer Crean or Smith? 

If I was asked if I preferred Rudd or Gillard, I would say Rudd.  But I definitely wouldn't want him running the country again.  He is the least worst of the two, imo, but that doesn't mean he can win the next election.


----------



## noco (30 September 2011)

*Re: Rudd Redux?*



sails said:


> I don't understand why the poll only gave the choice of Gillard and Rudd.  Rudd was on the nose when she knifed him - it seems silly to have those two as the only choice.  Both were involved in wrecking the Pacific solution and both want carbon priced.  It seems to me that the high polling for Rudd is more of a reaction due to Gillard's massive unpopularity.
> 
> Why didn't they also offer Crean or Smith?
> 
> If I was asked if I preferred Rudd or Gillard, I would say Rudd.  But I definitely wouldn't want him running the country again.  He is the least worst of the two, imo, but that doesn't mean he can win the next election.




Yes, and I agree whole heartedly. It is the manner in which they ask the question.

Whether it is in a new Labor Party leader in Rudd, Crean or Smith, the party have to ditch Gillard and the carbon (dioxide) tax, (ops, sorry carbon price) if they want to prevent a complete annihilation at the next election.


----------



## sails (30 September 2011)

*Re: Rudd Redux?*



noco said:


> Yes, and I agree whole heartedly. It is the manner in which they ask the question.
> 
> Whether it is in a new Labor Party leader in Rudd, Crean or Smith, the party have to ditch Gillard and the carbon (dioxide) tax, (ops, sorry carbon price) if they want to prevent a complete annihilation at the next election.




And re-instate the Pacific Solution would help too - that's if they can now after all the so many bungles and now a high court ruling.  Can't believe the messes this new labor lot have done. I don't know why Rudd and Gillard wanted to be labor MPs as they sure don't fit the traditional labor brand.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (13 December 2011)

*Rudd Quits Labor Party*

Today Loree Rudd, sister of the Foreign Minister quit the Labor Party over its Green stance on Gay Marriage.



> "I knew I didn't want to stay in a party if that was their stand," she said.
> "It's not something I believe in and it's also the way it happened that I dislike.
> "I no longer liked the direction the Labor Party was going at state or federal level and I couldn't work for a party that had endorsed homosexuals marrying."
> Ms Rudd did not resign from Labor when her brother was toppled as prime minister.
> ...






> "Homosexuals should be loved and treated right and they should not be discriminated against.
> "It is a horrible thing for them to be discriminated against and that's why my brother introduced laws so they are not discriminated against.
> "But to make that huge leap from their rights to breaking a commandment of Moses, to say homosexuals' relationships is marriage, is utter nonsense."
> 
> ...




She is considering voting for the Bob Katter party in the next election.

gg


----------



## sptrawler (13 December 2011)

*Re: Rudd Quits Labor Party*

Yes GG, I think Julia and her merry band of buffoons, have really dropped the proverbial clanger here.
The silent majority will have their say.


----------



## Whiskers (13 December 2011)

*Re: Rudd Quits Labor Party*

You almost got me there gg. For a moment when searching the index I thought you were talking about Kevin. I'm thinkin, gotta have a look at this.

You're not a news editor are you. 

While gay marriage obviously touches very strong nerves with Loree and some in the community, but probably not such a big issue in itself with most, it may the one extra little bit of 'give' and take to the extreme left that breaks the back of Labor.

But do you think Kevin feels as strongly as Loree?


----------



## noco (13 December 2011)

*Re: Rudd Quits Labor Party*



Whiskers said:


> You almost got me there gg. For a moment when searching the index I thought you were talking about Kevin. I'm thinkin, gotta have a look at this.
> 
> You're not a news editor are you.
> 
> ...





Kevvie won't be far behind her when he loses his bid to regain the leadership.

Bye bye Julia, Terise and I are off to live in good old England.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (13 December 2011)

*Re: Rudd Quits Labor Party*



noco said:


> Kevvie won't be far behind her when he loses his bid to regain the leadership.
> 
> Bye bye Julia, Terise and I are off to live in good old England.




Kevin is pretty much a godbothering mummys boy, so Lorelle may influence him over a sav, sauce bottle and a cup of tea.

gg


----------



## Eager (13 December 2011)

*Re: Rudd Quits Labor Party*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> Today Loree Rudd, sister of the Foreign Minister quit the Labor Party over its Green stance on Gay Marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well that should please the rednecks...


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (13 December 2011)

*Re: Rudd Quits Labor Party*



Eager said:


> Well that should please the rednecks...




Describe a redneck mate.

gg


----------



## Eager (13 December 2011)

*Re: Rudd Quits Labor Party*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> Describe a redneck mate.
> 
> gg



I got a bite!


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (13 December 2011)

*Re: Rudd Quits Labor Party*



Eager said:


> I got a bite!




It's called a croc, and you sound scared, so skip on back to your caravan.

gg


----------



## noco (13 December 2011)

*Re: Rudd Quits Labor Party*



noco said:


> Kevvie won't be far behind her when he loses his bid to regain the leadership.
> 
> Bye bye Julia, Terise and I are off to live in good old England.




Is it possible if Kevin Rudd were to quit he may take Carr and Mc Clelland with him for they very unhappy little Labor 'vegimites' ATM.


----------



## sptrawler (14 December 2011)

*Re: Rudd Quits Labor Party*



noco said:


> Is it possible if Kevin Rudd were to quit he may take Carr and Mc Clelland with him for they very unhappy little Labor 'vegimites' ATM.




Well noco, that is a classic, what if Kev's mates give them the bird. $#it that would really put a cat among the pidgeons.
Good call !!!!!!!
Now that would be an ASF scoop that would take some topping.

But as you say at the moment there is no honour or upside to being aligned to this motley crew. 
They side with anyone and $#ft anyone to cling to power, while changing the face of Australia with minority support.


----------



## Eager (14 December 2011)

*Re: Rudd Quits Labor Party*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> It's called a croc, and you sound scared, so skip on back to your caravan.
> 
> gg




Nahh bro, it's called a humpy, ay? Down by the river on the edge of town, where I spear crocs for brekky.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (15 December 2011)

*Re: Rudd Quits Labor Party*



sptrawler said:


> Well noco, that is a classic, what if Kev's mates give them the bird. $#it that would really put a cat among the pidgeons.
> Good call !!!!!!!
> Now that would be an ASF scoop that would take some topping.
> 
> ...




spt, that is not as silly as it sounds.

My contacts at the Church of St.Jude, patron of hopeless cases, , tell me that a prominent worshipper who shall remain nameless but is known as "Kevin from Queensland who is here to help", is planning a mass defection.

gg


----------



## noco (15 December 2011)

*Re: Rudd Quits Labor Party*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> spt, that is not as silly as it sounds.
> 
> My contacts at the Church of St.Jude, patron of hopeless cases, , tell me that a prominent worshipper who shall remain nameless but is known as "Kevin from Queensland who is here to help", is planning a mass defection.
> 
> gg




GG, next year will be 'WHOPPER' in Canberra. Can't wait for it all to implode.

The relationship between Julia and Kevin must be like a boil on the bum of both of them. The core of the boil is still there. It just a matter of waiting to see which one pops out first.


----------



## Eager (15 December 2011)

*Re: Rudd Quits Labor Party*



noco said:


> The relationship between Julia and Kevin must be like a boil on the bum of both of them. The core of the boil is still there. It just a matter of waiting to see which one pops out first.



Yes, it is very Howard/Costello-ish, ay?


----------



## noco (15 December 2011)

*Re: Rudd Quits Labor Party*



Eager said:


> Yes, it is very Howard/Costello-ish, ay?




I don't think sooooo!!!!!


----------



## Duckman#72 (22 February 2012)

*Rudd Resigns as Foreign Minister*

Where to from here everyone?

I think it is good move from Rudd, looks like he is "the victim". Knifed again by the "faceless men".

Gillard looks like she was being paranoid all along. 

Unfortunately Australia loses one of the few cabinet ministers that actually knew about his portfolio area. 

Duckman


----------



## sptrawler (22 February 2012)

*Re: Rudd Resigns as Foreign Minister*

Well if Kev spits the dummy and walks out on the party, we could be awfully close to an election.

You have to remember without the hobnobbing and travel, there isn't much in it for Kev. 
He may as well go and work for his missus, as sit on the back bench playing with ear wax.


----------



## explod (22 February 2012)

*Re: Rudd Resigns as Foreign Minister*

Blah blah blah, the Parliament today is equal to paper money

nought,

cept paper money still buys a diminishing bit.

Got physical gold ?


----------



## joea (22 February 2012)

*Re: Rudd Resigns as Foreign Minister*



Duckman#72 said:


> Where to from here everyone?




Kevin Rudd will gather the numbers on the Week-end, then make a statement on Monday what he going to do Tuesday. Challenge? Or decide on another source of mischief.
I think Kevin is p****d with everyone in Labor. Gee he may go Independent!!
joea


----------



## noco (16 July 2012)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

I believe Kevin Rudd is abiding his time for Gillard to fall on her sword and the timing could be before xmas 2012.

That would give him time to re-establish himself before the next election.

If Rudd were to scrap the carbon tax, reopen Nauru and tear up the Greens/Labor agreement, Tony Abbott may be in for the fight of his life. 

This could certainly develope into a boast in the polls for Labor and it would not surprise me in the least if Rudd happened to go that way.

Lets see what happens.




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/delicate-rebound-of-rudd/story-e6frg6z6-1226426642893


----------



## Gringotts Bank (16 July 2012)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Kev hasn't been idling his time away.

Here is his new website, by jingoes, she's a beaut:    http://aussieslang.org/

If you can say "fair suck of the sauce bottle" with a very clipped formal accent, you're on your way.


----------



## sails (16 July 2012)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noco said:


> I believe Kevin Rudd is abiding his time for Gillard to fall on her sword and the timing could be before xmas 2012.
> 
> That would give him time to re-establish himself before the next election.
> 
> ...




Good chance Rudd will only re-open Nauru but not put the Pacific Solution back in it's entirety which means it is not so likely to work as effeciently.  Abbott will still hold the trump card in that case:



> Sources close to Rudd say that he would be likely to take up Tony Abbott’s offer to reopen Nauru without towbacks or TPVs being put in place.... Two weeks ago Rudd backers Nick Champion and Ed Husic publicly questioned the need for media regulation beyond the existing constructs… Few think that he can stick with the carbon tax as it stands now.




http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...hank_gillard_for_her_support_take_that_labor/


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## drsmith (16 July 2012)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



noco said:


> I believe Kevin Rudd is abiding his time for Gillard to fall on her sword and the timing could be before xmas 2012.
> 
> That would give him time to re-establish himself before the next election.
> 
> ...



That article almost paints the return of Kevin Rudd up there with the return of the messiah.

To a party heading towards political ruin under their current leader, that must increasingly seem the case.

If that is indeed the case, they are more delusional than ever.


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## drsmith (16 July 2012)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



sails said:


> Good chance Rudd will only re-open Nauru but not put the Pacific Solution back in it's entirety which means it is not so likely to work as effeciently.  Abbott will still hold the trump card in that case:



Tony Abbott would insist on nothing less and rightly so.

To do otherwise increases the risk of policy failure which in this instance would be at the Coalition's expense.


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## Julia (16 July 2012)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



drsmith said:


> Tony Abbott would insist on nothing less and rightly so.
> 
> To do otherwise increases the risk of policy failure which in this instance would be at the Coalition's expense.



Agree.   He's also doing the right thing in being absolutely clear about not getting involved in the Houston-led panel on border control or whatever it's called.
On that, I laughed this morning to hear on Radio National that this 'expert panel' now has a special committee of fifteen 'advisers' to help it.  These are, of course, largely drawn from the lofty heights of academe, with their left leaning law faculties.
What a farce!


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## drsmith (16 July 2012)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*



Julia said:


> On that, I laughed this morning to hear on Radio National that this 'expert panel' now has a special committee of fifteen 'advisers' to help it.  These are, of course, largely drawn from the lofty heights of academe, with their left leaning law faculties.
> What a farce!



That really is a community consensus by Gillard standards.

She only had four advisors for the carbon tax.


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## drsmith (17 July 2012)

*Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?*

Are the leadership cracks widening ?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...diction-rejected/story-fn59niix-1226427825685

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...es-leadership-speculation-20120717-227h0.html


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## Garpal Gumnut (21 March 2013)

*Chicken Kev*

Kevin Rudd is a Twister Box, Original.

He has failed, and failed miserably.

Let us hope he continues to destabilise the ALP.

What an absolute tosser.

What a choker.

By not challenging he has proven that Gillard and the Unions were correct in dumping him as PM.

gg


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## drsmith (21 March 2013)

*Re: Chicken Kev*

Fairfax's Peter Hartcher has some interesting thoughts in the following video,

http://media.smh.com.au/video-national-news/national-news


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## Garpal Gumnut (21 March 2013)

*Re: Chicken Kev*

Mark Latham nails the Rudd persona in this article, a transcript of a conversation between Latham and Paul Murray who I believe is a media identity.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/hes-always-inflating-his-numbers-latham-unleashes-extraordinary-diatribe-on-rudd-fitzgibbon-and-richardson-20130321-2gik7.html



> "We go through this every time about the inflated Rudd numbers. Kevin Rudd put his hand up for the Labor leadership six times, and in each case he has dramatically inflated his numbers in leaks to the media.
> "You had silly Kieran Gilbert on Sky News today saying: 'Oh, will it be like last time, when Rudd had the numbers and then they fell apart when the ballot was held – his numbers dissipated.'
> "Well, he didn't have the numbers in the first place; I mean, I just get amazed at the gullible nature of the media where, time after time after time after time, they buy the Rudd BS.
> Advertisement
> ...




gg


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## Calliope (21 March 2013)

*Re: Chicken Kev*



drsmith said:


> Fairfax's Peter Hartcher has some interesting thoughts in the following video,
> 
> http://media.smh.com.au/video-national-news/national-news




That was an excellent summation of today's events. Hartcher, who has always been a Rudd supporter, says that Rudd has hung his supporters out to dry, and they will be reluctant to to support any future Rudd challenge. The Rudd brand is stuffed

I agree with him that there has been no other occasion where the Labor party has inflicted so much damage on their leader and their alternative leader in one day.

Go Tony.


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## MrBurns (21 March 2013)

The next poll will be interesting, who would want Rudd as preferred PM over Gillard ? It's no longer a question anyone would bother answering.


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## drsmith (21 March 2013)

*Re: Chicken Kev*

In the Peter Hartcher interview above, at about 7min he comments that Labor has chosen to stick with it's union affiliations and lose the next election.

He also comments that Kevin Rudd couldn't credibly stand for leader again. The only thing that's left for him is whether the prospect of a wipe out brings the Caucus to his door begging.


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## Garpal Gumnut (27 March 2013)

*Re: Chicken Kev*

My contacts in Griffith tell me that Chicken Kev is down to a 5% margin in Griffith on internal polling.

I believe he is going to do a mail out to his supporters to get up and going to have him re-elected.

If he has dropped to 5% this would make his hold tenuous, and Griffith a marginal seat.

Feeding the chooks may not suffice for Chicken Kev.

gg


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## MrBurns (27 March 2013)

*Re: Chicken Kev*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> My contacts in Griffith tell me that Chicken Kev is down to a 5% margin in Griffith on internal polling.
> 
> I believe he is going to do a mail out to his supporters to get up and going to have him re-elected.
> 
> ...




A more pathetic sight would be hard to find 
Australian ambassador in Afghanistan for Kev


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## Julia (21 May 2013)

Kevin couldn't stay out of the limelight for long.  He's all over the media today proclaiming his epiphany on same sex marriage.

Does anyone care?  I wouldn't have thought so, but it has been the lead item on ABC radio news since last night!


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## Bintang (21 May 2013)

Julia said:


> Kevin couldn't stay out of the limelight for long.  He's all over the media today proclaiming his epiphany on same sex marriage.
> 
> Does anyone care?  I wouldn't have thought so, but it has been the lead item on ABC radio news since last night!




Is the any chance that Griffiths has a disproportionately high number of gay couples who want to tie the knot?
In case no-one has noticed I am a serial cynic when it comes to politicians (both sides). Whenever they utter anything I figure that self-interest must be close by in one form or other.


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## Calliope (21 May 2013)

Bintang said:


> Whenever they utter anything I figure that self-interest must be close by in one form or other.




The clown used the word "ceremoany" which as far as I am concerned destroys any credibility.


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## Julia (21 May 2013)

Bintang said:


> Is the any chance that Griffiths has a disproportionately high number of gay couples who want to tie the knot?
> In case no-one has noticed I am a serial cynic when it comes to politicians (both sides). Whenever they utter anything I figure that self-interest must be close by in one form or other.



I think your cynicism is shared by much of the electorate.  What this latest bit of grandstanding indicated to me was (a) a possibility such as you've suggested re gay couples in his electorate, or even more (b) that he has never actually given up on the notion of again leading the Labor Party.

Sure, he has said it will never happen, but we all know how much weight can be given to any statement by any politician.


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## Some Dude (21 May 2013)

Julia said:


> Sure, he has said it will never happen, but we all know how much weight can be given to any statement by any politician.




I'm not suggesting this will happen but I did ponder today to what extent it may shake things up if the ALP were to propose gay marriage as part of their platform for re-election. Would that recast the electorate from a polling perspective and is that behind Kevin's epiphany.


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## sptrawler (21 May 2013)

Some Dude said:


> I'm not suggesting this will happen but I did ponder today to what extent it may shake things up if the ALP were to propose gay marriage as part of their platform for re-election. Would that recast the electorate from a polling perspective and is that behind Kevin's epiphany.




Spot on dude, Kev doesn't need the money, just the glory.
Nothing wrong with that, if he has the interest of the nation at heart.

Last time round, it was a bull in a china shop incident.lol

There is nothing wrong with a rich person with a social agenda. 
The problem is with a person using a social agenda for personal gain.
I think Kev has his heart in the right spot, however the two bullet holes in his feet seem to be a problem.


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## Some Dude (21 May 2013)

sptrawler said:


> Last time round, it was a bull in a china shop incident.lol




Agreed.



sptrawler said:


> I think Kev has his heart in the right spot, however the two bullet holes in his feet seem to be a problem.




He does seem to have a gift for it but he doesn't seem alone in that one. Regardless of other political opinions, this government has shot themselves in the foot so often they deserve to lose for that alone.

Do you think the wider Australian community is ready for such? I'm not convinced they are, regardless of my opinion on the matter. Further, even if this is some "Hannibal over the alp's" (get it.. alp.. ) maneuver to outflank and wedge the Coalition, I just can't see support crystalising behind a single issue like that that is not perceived to directly affect the individual voter.


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## sptrawler (21 May 2013)

Some Dude said:


> Agreed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I think Kev is no idiot, Labor party does but generally they're idiots.
He would have learnt a lot from shooting from the hip, he is Labors best hope.
Sadly the party has grouped behind the union bimbos, it will be their downfall.IMO


----------



## Tisme (9 September 2015)

I like to look back on things to see how they played out. An interesting observation is how the Lowy Institute seemed rather professional in its assessment (at the time) of Kevin.  This is not one for the congenital haters, if only to encourage a degree of +ve.



> Kevin Rudd's China legacy
> 16 March 2012 6:48AM
> Whatever you might think of Kevin Rudd, he was certainly active internationally, both as Foreign Minister and as Prime Minister. But what were his achievements and what will his legacy be?
> 
> ...




and how his legacy appears to be in lock step with current approaches:




> Top government official offers clear view of how Tony Abbott sees the world
> 
> June 30, 2015
> John Garnaut
> ...


----------



## SirRumpole (9 September 2015)

Tisme said:


> I like to look back on things to see how they played out. An interesting observation is how the Lowy Institute seemed rather professional in its assessment (at the time) of Kevin.  This is not one for the congenital haters, if only to encourage a degree of +ve.
> 
> 
> 
> and how his legacy appears to be in lock step with current approaches:




Imo China's long term strategy is to make us economically dependent on them in order to make us less likely to speak out against their military incursions in our area.

With all the cow towing to Chine over trade agreements it's going to be more difficult over the years to separate our economic ties from our military and security interests.

When CHAFTA is signed, China will have taken a big step towards achieving its long term military strategy.


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## noco (9 September 2015)

SirRumpole said:


> Imo China's long term strategy is to make us economically dependent on them in order to make us less likely to speak out against their military incursions in our area.
> 
> With all the cow towing to Chine over trade agreements it's going to be more difficult over the years to separate our economic ties from our military and security interests.
> 
> When CHAFTA is signed, China will have taken a big step towards achieving its long term military strategy.




So in your opinion, the LUG party has given up on the flood of Chinese workers invading our country and has now started a new campaign that at some time in the future we will be threatened with the might of the Chinese military strength?
Really?????...you must be joking....The little yellow men invading south east Asia to get to Australia.

As Richo says..."What ever it takes".


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## SirRumpole (9 September 2015)

noco said:


> As Richo says..."What ever it takes".




Whatever it takes to do what ?


----------

