# Options21 Course - Anyone done it?



## jasecrothers (7 May 2011)

Hello, 
attended their free market briefing a few days ago and wondering if anyones done  any of their course. from what i gather from their website (i won't post it, if you want to see it it's easy to find):

Good:
-not much hyping 
-didnt try to directly sell anything, although he did mention his students made a lot from the current gold move 
-its a one on one mentorship for months, with the same trainer (whos the owner of the company I beleive)

Bad:
-not very reputable: while theres no bad reviews, theres no good reviews on other sites either..bascally they're not very well known
-quite expensive: basic course is around 500 with mentorships upto a few grand.

From what I heard on the webinar their TA bases on volatility, he mentions he looks at volatility before he looks at price.

Anyone with any knowledge of this company? I have no affiliations aside from being interested as a potential customer as it seems the least hyped course not listing any hundred of % returns, so I welcome any good or bad experiences with them.


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## Sean K (7 May 2011)

jasecrothers said:


> Hello,
> attended their free market briefing a few days ago and wondering if anyones done  any of their course. from what i gather from their website (i won't post it, if you want to see it it's easy to find):
> 
> Good:
> ...



A free briefing and that's it?

Questions??



Didn't you get some audited stats on success ratios, profit/loss etc, etc?

Do they even have a license? 

Students 'made a lot' from the current gold move?


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## jasecrothers (7 May 2011)

It was a briefing where he showed some charts and gave his view on gold, s&p and a few stocks. He also answered questions from attenders.

Yeah they have a AFSL license, from their company profile they claim they established in 1996. Seems like they been in business for 15 years but there's not much info on them is what's bugging me. 

No performance stats were shown. He did say most of the time they take around 5 trades risking 2% each and expects 3 of them to win, 1 to break even and 1 to lose. Not sure about how big the winners or losers are though.


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## Sean K (7 May 2011)

jasecrothers said:


> No performance stats were shown.



And no one asked? 



No audited proof at all of making money?


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## 1337trader (7 May 2011)

Is providing audited proof a norm?

I haven't seen any company that provides that. Some newsletters show non audited performance but they're all cherry picked as a quick google search shows they're not profitable.

Seems like no one's heard this guys I think best to stay away.


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## Sean K (10 May 2011)

1337trader said:


> Some newsletters show non audited performance but they're all cherry picked.



So, these guys may show non audited performance but it's cherry picked anyway?


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## carlk (27 May 2011)

My review of the mentoring course with Options21:

It's a personal mentoring with Paul Wise (and another trainer, Nils) for a few months (and ongoing after that where we look for trades together) where you learn the methodology of picking trades. Volatility is often used first to narrow down ideal candidates. We were taught how to form a view on implied volatility and take advantage of it with options.

An example of entry I picked up using the method is below, it was my first trade after completing the course. Timestampped Facebook screencap where we share our trades(course content redded out):











Obviously we don't catch the exact botom everytime but we enter right after it's confirmed. Trade management is covered in depth including hedging and morphing. Position sizing is taught so we don't blow up.

It is a high quality course if you are willing to put in some time and learn the system. 

-Carl


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## option23 (7 September 2011)

Have you, or do you know any one who has, *suffered financial loss* after engaging the "*AUTOTRADE*" service as advertised by *OPTIONS21* (option trader based in Perth)? Contact me for consideration of class action to recover your loss.


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## The Tiger (4 January 2012)

carlk said:


> My review of the mentoring course with Options21:
> 
> It's a personal mentoring with Paul Wise (and another trainer, Nils) for a few months (and ongoing after that where we look for trades together) where you learn the methodology of picking trades. Volatility is often used first to narrow down ideal candidates. We were taught how to form a view on implied volatility and take advantage of it with options.
> 
> ...




Hi Carl,

My name is Hernan, I was trading with Options for almost one year and would like to improve my knowledge of Options and learn a system that can give a regular income. I contacted Paul W. and would like to know if you can give me your feed back of the course. Could you please be so kind and tell me your story and experience.

Thanks a lot for your help, it's much appreciated.


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## grubram (18 June 2012)

*Please think twice about spending nearly $6000.00 on their option mentoring course*,a few years back they offered a two day Mastery course for around $4000.00 dollars which I attended with no after course help,then they decided to use the majority of the Mastery course for which they offered no after course help which they now call Option Mentoring course,when I contacted them to see if old students were offered the upgrade they now use I was told that I would have to pay $6000.00 like everyone else to get excess to the new content,after a lot of to and frowing he decided that I could have his new course for $4100 so I paid a deposit got the new manual and cd and found the new content had changed very little I decided that I would continue with the course and get excess to the private tuition which was web based,so I asked for a final balance to pay the remainder and I received an email to pay the full $6000.00 so I emailed him back and told him not to bother taking the rest off the Visa card as I would be sending the whole lot back,I waited 2 days and didn't hear from them so I sent it all back and asked for my deposit back,which took many emails.
After that my emails were blacklisted and I had to communicate through a third party to get some satisfaction and to date this so called professional has not had the decency of a man to man discussion on the subject,their biggerst concerne in an email to me was that they were far from happy that I had cost them $1000.00 dollars by sending the manual back..
Anybody wan'ts to private message me I can send them all the email exchanges that were made,I know you'll be shocked as to how this so called guru handled this matter.
Also keep in mind tha apart from the mentoring course cost you will have to purchase the software he peddles as well as continued data fees and anybody still inerested I can let you know what you can expect to get for your $6000.00


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## ROE (18 June 2012)

Notice how you start asking the questions about the course and all these guys with less than few post history start to show up.

it's a re-occurring event on this forum, it show up every few months 

you know the government put out a good website 
https://www.moneysmart.gov.au/scams/investment-scams


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## grubram (19 June 2012)

ROE
Are you the forum police or are you on options21 staff.Do you object to somebody expressing their experiences,I noticed you have many post on this forum and probably many other forums do you spend more time surfing the forum than actually trading,in my experience good traders spend more time trading than posting.I have all the email evidence if somebody wants to see it privately they are welcome.
If the tuition is that good ask yourself why the old students need to pay $1200.00 ayear to be in a exclusive club to see what other students are trading before they feel safe to enter a trade,I thought if you were brought to a professional level you would be out there making your own trading decissions and putting the $1200.00 towards buying more contracts


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## grubram (25 June 2012)

*DO YOURSELF A FAVOUR:*If you are going to use *OPTIONVUE7* software for your option analysis do yourself a favour,and get trained by the big names in the option industry,some who have written many books on the subject eg 
*Steve Lenz
Steve Papale
Ken Dole
Frank Fahey*
all experts in this field and they also offer private mentoring in a similar form as Options21 at half the cost with ongoing support *(FREE)* and they can get you familiar with their software


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## hatton01 (25 July 2012)

grubram said:


> *DO YOURSELF A FAVOUR:*If you are going to use *OPTIONVUE7* software for your option analysis do yourself a favour,and get trained by the big names in the option industry,some who have written many books on the subject eg
> *Steve Lenz
> Steve Papale
> Ken Dole
> ...




1/ I have done some options training with Paul (not the mentoring course). He came across as very knowledgable in options & trading. Definitely not a dodgy operator.

2/ Optionvue software - Very expensive. I have a license which I don't use any more. If you ask some of gents mentioned (like Steve) if they trade for a living they probably say No! Steve was one of my mentor's.

3/ Options mentoring - Did attend a course in the US with Dan Sheridan (was a market maker). The course content & format is very good (now around US $6000). He also offers his own software which does everything Optionvue does for about a 1/4 of the cost. Did learn a lot about what makes US equites move (earnings, company announcements)  & what is the only parameter that tells you this (implied volatility).

After several years of trading options I came to one conclusion:

If you are a trader & you want to use an option you now have to have an idea about direction, implied volatility & time. Does not give you an advantages.

Also when you buy or sell you could end up paying more  to the market maker vs buying the underlying.
I am sure the likes of Dan will tell you his strategy is delta neutral but I found very few students who ended up making a living out of trading options using Delta neutral trading. The black swans we have encountered over the last few years don't allow you to sleep well at night even though Dan does not sell naked positions.

A fair few of his students have become mentors.

My preference is to use a CFD (direct market model) for leverage.
However there are traps if you choose the wrong CFD provider like I did (MF Global).

Hopefully the end is in sight for us MF Global clients with a judge providing directions to the Administrator within the next few months (we hope ) which should see most of our funds returned.

Cheers


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## hatton01 (25 July 2012)

grubram said:


> *DO YOURSELF A FAVOUR:*If you are going to use *OPTIONVUE7* software for your option analysis do yourself a favour,and get trained by the big names in the option industry,some who have written many books on the subject eg
> *Steve Lenz
> Steve Papale
> Ken Dole
> ...




1/ I have done some options training with Paul (not the mentoring course). He came across as very knowledgable in options & trading. Definitely not a dodgy operator.

2/ Optionvue software - Very expensive. I have a license which I don't use any more. If you ask some of gents mentioned (like Steve) if they trade for a living they probably say No! Steve was one of my mentor's.

3/ Options mentoring - Did attend a course in the US with Dan Sheridan (was a market maker). The course content & format is very good (now around US $6000). He also offers his own software which does everything Optionvue does for about a 1/4 of the cost. Did learn a lot about what makes US equites move (earnings, company announcements)  & what is the only parameter that tells you this (implied volatility).

After several years of trading options I came to one conclusion:

If you are a trader & you want to use an option you now have to have an idea about direction, implied volatility & time. Does not give you an advantages.

Also when you buy or sell you could end up paying more  to the market maker vs buying the underlying.
I am sure the likes of Dan will tell you his strategy is delta neutral but I found very few students who ended up making a living out of trading options using Delta neutral trading. The black swans we have encountered over the last few years don't allow you to sleep well at night even though Dan does not sell naked positions.

A fair few of his students have become mentors.

My preference is to use a CFD (direct market model) for leverage.
However there are traps if you choose the wrong CFD provider like I did (MF Global).

Hopefully the end is in sight for us MF Global clients with a judge providing directions to the Administrator within the next few months (we hope ) which should see most of our funds returned.

Cheers


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## JLM Financial (25 July 2012)

There are two very useful courses called ADA 1 & 2 which cover options and warrants (not that I know anyone who trades the latter).  It's not run by spruikers but legitimate education companies.  
Only use a derivatives broker who has these quals.
Obviously our brokers have this qual.
There are also some (not many) solid CFD providers left.  PM if you would like more details.


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## wayneL (25 July 2012)

hatton01 said:


> After several years of trading options I came to one conclusion:
> 
> If you are a trader & you want to use an option you now have to have an idea about direction, implied volatility & time. Does not give you an advantages.
> 
> ...




You may have inherited a bias based on current market conditions.

I agree that delta neutral trading has pretty much sucked over the last few years, but that does not mean that its time will not come again.

This is the beauty of options, being able to construct risk reward profiles to match what you think the the market will (or will not) do.

But just because one group of strategies do not suit the here and now, it doesn't mean they are bad strategies. They are still good strategies, just for a different type of market.

I am trading strategies right now that I would never have traded 5 years ago; and there will come a time where I will not consider them once again.


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## grubram (12 August 2012)

hatton01 said:


> 1/ I have done some options training with Paul (not the mentoring course). He came across as very knowledgable in options & trading. Definitely not a dodgy operator.
> 
> 2/ Optionvue software - Very expensive. I have a license which I don't use any more. If you ask some of gents mentioned (like Steve) if they trade for a living they probably say No! Steve was one of my mentor's.
> 
> ...




Admittedly Option Vue 7 is expensive to purchase,I also own OV7 but several years ago when I purchased it I also purchased backtrader which allows me to get free options data 20 minutes delayde through backtrader which makes it a cheap platform for options trading,I believe you have to pay $500 per year for backtrader now including paying for data which makes OptionsNet I believe it is called a much better option and is distibuted through Dan Sherridan who seems very knowledgeable.


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## grubram (9 September 2012)

Instead of paying* $6000.00 *for an over priced options course check this out

http://www.sheridanmentoring.com/index/method/c.classes.html


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## carlk (13 October 2012)

I will just post up my trading results so anyone considering this course can have a better understanding and make informed decisions. They are solely mine and not indicative of other students. Have traded live for a number of years but only 2 months as I only started using IB 2 months ago and OX does not have portfolio analyst. 










You would've done well following Paul's free analysis past few months. http://options21.blogspot.com.au/ . Hedge/exit positions on Apr 10 and long again Jun 17. You will have done better if you used price structure timing and found and traded the strong sectors/stocks.

EDIT: do not just look at gains, comparing it with draw down is more important as anyone can make big gains just using all margin to buy a index ETF and have a lucky win while their whole account is at risk.


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## burglar (13 October 2012)

ROE said:


> Notice how you start asking the questions about the course and all these guys with less than few post history start to show up.
> 
> it's a re-occurring event on this forum, it show up every few months
> 
> ...




re-occurring again?


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## grubram (13 February 2013)

grubram said:


> *Please think twice about spending nearly $6000.00 on their option mentoring course*,a few years back they offered a two day Mastery course for around $4000.00 dollars which I attended with no after course help,then they decided to use the majority of the Mastery course for which they offered no after course help which they now call Option Mentoring course,when I contacted them to see if old students were offered the upgrade they now use I was told that I would have to pay $6000.00 like everyone else to get excess to the new content,after a lot of to and frowing he decided that I could have his new course for $4100 so I paid a deposit got the new manual and cd and found the new content had changed very little I decided that I would continue with the course and get excess to the private tuition which was web based,so I asked for a final balance to pay the remainder and I received an email to pay the full $6000.00 so I emailed him back and told him not to bother taking the rest off the Visa card as I would be sending the whole lot back,I waited 2 days and didn't hear from them so I sent it all back and asked for my deposit back,which took many emails.
> After that my emails were blacklisted and I had to communicate through a third party to get some satisfaction and to date this so called professional has not had the decency of a man to man discussion on the subject,their biggerst concerne in an email to me was that they were far from happy that I had cost them $1000.00 dollars by sending the manual back..
> Anybody wan'ts to private message me I can send them all the email exchanges that were made,I know you'll be shocked as to how this so called guru handled this matter.
> Also keep in mind tha apart from the mentoring course cost you will have to purchase the software he peddles as well as continued data fees and anybody still inerested I can let you know what you can expect to get for your $6000.00




Correction to the original post
I'm advising all forum members that the post should read there was limited course help in my opinion after completing the option mastery course and therefore withdraw the earlier statement made in the original post


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## grubram (13 February 2013)

grubram said:


> *Please think twice about spending nearly $6000.00 on their option mentoring course*,a few years back they offered a two day Mastery course for around $4000.00 dollars which I attended with no after course help,then they decided to use the majority of the Mastery course for which they offered no after course help which they now call Option Mentoring course,when I contacted them to see if old students were offered the upgrade they now use I was told that I would have to pay $6000.00 like everyone else to get excess to the new content,after a lot of to and frowing he decided that I could have his new course for $4100 so I paid a deposit got the new manual and cd and found the new content had changed very little I decided that I would continue with the course and get excess to the private tuition which was web based,so I asked for a final balance to pay the remainder and I received an email to pay the full $6000.00 so I emailed him back and told him not to bother taking the rest off the Visa card as I would be sending the whole lot back,I waited 2 days and didn't hear from them so I sent it all back and asked for my deposit back,which took many emails.
> After that my emails were blacklisted and I had to communicate through a third party to get some satisfaction and to date this so called professional has not had the decency of a man to man discussion on the subject,their biggerst concerne in an email to me was that they were far from happy that I had cost them $1000.00 dollars by sending the manual back..
> Anybody wan'ts to private message me I can send them all the email exchanges that were made,I know you'll be shocked as to how this so called guru handled this matter.
> Also keep in mind tha apart from the mentoring course cost you will have to purchase the software he peddles as well as continued data fees and anybody still inerested I can let you know what you can expect to get for your $6000.00




Correction to the above post
It has come to my attention that in the first 4 lines of my original post where it states that there was no after course help after completing the mastery course was not quite acurate and withdraw this comment which should have read that there was limited post course help in my opinion


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## carlk (25 February 2013)

grubram said:


> Correction to the above post
> It has come to my attention that in the first 4 lines of my original post where it states that there was no after course help after completing the mastery course was not quite acurate and withdraw this comment which should have read that there was limited post course help in my opinion




Weekly session (free for all graduates) where you ask all you want until you are out of questions, whether on or off course content. If you can't attend the session you submit your questions and it is recorded..  I fail to see how that is limited help, in my opinion that is the closest thing to UNLIMITED help.


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## carlk (20 May 2013)

Real money is being traded with what is taught from the course if anyone is wondering. Year to date broker verified results attached. Fell short of my target for the midyear mark, gotta pick up my game for the rest of the year.


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## carlk (20 May 2013)

Seems like you cannot keep the trades private you have to keep the whole account private which is what I have to do as open trades are there.


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## carlk (22 September 2013)

kennas said:


> And no one asked?
> 
> 
> 
> No audited proof at all of making money?




My trading account statement is available for viewing. I can send to admin or post it here.


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