# Good TA books: Any suggestions?



## nizar (9 August 2006)

I dont really know or understand technical analysis to any great degree and know only the very basics...

Can any1 recommend any books to read ?

I heard Edwards and Magee is a really good "manual" but its like $150 - has anybody read this and does any1 rate it ?


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## juddy (9 August 2006)

Louise Bedford's books are good for starters (value wise), but why but when there is so much free info on the net? Try incrediblecharts.com to start- free software (day old data) and lots of info to go with it.


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## CanOz (9 August 2006)

I am a subscriber to Nick Radge's 'The Chartist'. After i subscribed he sent me an E-Book, 'Master the Markets'. Its a great read that you get for free when you subscribe. This and Nick's educational newsletter have been invaluable to me. 

The biggest single thing i've learned so far is that no matter how good a Company looks on paper, its what the real traders are doing that can make or break you.

I think the book retails for $99.00 USD. 

Its worth checking out. I also read Nick's book "Adaptive Analysis", long before i even knew about his newsletter. Althought i'm not keen for the specific style of analysis involving Elliot Waves, i'm a firm believer in his risk management system.

I hope you find what your looking for.

Cheers,


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## Pager (9 August 2006)

Technical Analysis of the Financial Markets by John J Murphy is pretty comprehensive and covers a wide range of T/A approaches.

Cheers

Pager


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## Magdoran (9 August 2006)

Hello nizar,


Have a look at the "Books on Technical Analysis" thread which deals precisely with this topic in depth... 

Below is my comment on the situation, and I didn't want to retype it all out again.  Also, I am amazed at how many people think Bedford is great (no offence intended juddy - more of an observation – please read of my comments on the other thread for the full perspective).

Regards


Magdoran




			
				Magdoran said:
			
		

> Hello makeorbrake,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Julia (9 August 2006)

Nizar

I'm basically a fundamentalist, and had felt daunted by reading much of the  previously recommended TA tomes.  As someone else has said, Nick Radge's "Adaptive Analysis" is really good for risk management, but I just couldn't get involved in all the Elliott Wave stuff.  (No disrespect to either Nick or anyone who enjoys this:  I just don't).

Then I read Stan Weinstein's "Secrets for Profiting in Bull and Bear Markets" and so much fell into place.  Weinstein presents TA in an easy to understand fashion, and offers you some basic understanding without involving a lot of unnecessary additions.  It changed the way I viewed my portfolio and I have subsequently made a lot of changes in (a) stock selection, and (b) exit criteria.

I think it's around $25, available through Moneybags, and imo well worth the money.  

If someone who is basically as unattracted to charts as I was can be converted to applying Weinstein's basic philosophy to my essentially blue chip portfolio, then I think most people will find it a useful addition to their investing/trading.

Julia


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## coyotte (9 August 2006)

You can pick up a copy of Technical Analysis of Stock Trends (Edwards & Magee ) or Technical Analysis of Financal Markets (Murphy) for under $us 50 + $us10 postage  from Amazon

Both are similar (based on patterns ) but are not "how to books"
Murphy's book is a easier read, with virtually the same info.

If your after a "how to book" its pretty hard to go past Guppy's "Share Trading" as a primer --- then move onto the others


Cheers


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## MichaelD (9 August 2006)

Magdoran said:
			
		

> I am amazed at how many people think Bedford is great



Magdoran,

I'm going to take you up on this point and disagree with you. Of all the books I have read to date, I still consider Bedford's Trading Secrets the best book for a novice share trader to begin with.

Why?

1. Because if you read it and trade according to its methodology (long term technical trend trading with proper risk and money management) you will be profitable. The methodology presented is robust.
2. Most importantly, there is a lot of emphasis on the importance of stop losses. If this sinks in, you won't blow up whilst you spend time figuring out what really matters.
3. Even more importantly from a novice point of view, it tells the novice trader what they want to know about at the start of the book, which is the trade entry. Put anything else at the start of a trading book, and novice's eyes will glaze over and they'll skip these chapers and start reading from the trade entry chapter. At least with Trading Secrets, there's a fair chance that you'll subsequently read and think about money/risk management and psychology.

The major weakness of Trading Secrets is its lack of detail on the finer points of money management, but at least it cops an adequate mention to get started.


Books such as Radge's Adaptive Analysis (which btw I need to read again soon to absorb more detail from) and Van Tharp's Trading Your Way To Financial Freedom are not what I'd call novice texts. Novices will skip over the important parts of these books and miss the messages contained therein. You need to have some market exposure before either of these books will be of help to you (both are fabulous IMO).

Novices will simply turn their noses up at books on the psychology of trading - these messages are for much later.

I don't believe anyone wanting to start trading the markets can possibly start with the psychology of trading. In the beginning it's all about profits and calling the broker on the mobile phone from the yacht whilst surrounded by popping champagne corks. Try and suggest that the enemy is within you to a novice trader and see what happens.

Bedford's book manages to fit into the novice mindset whilst gently steering them in the right direction. That I believe is why it is a good starting point.

You've criticized this and other books as "kindergarten" material. That may well be true, but traders must learn to crawl before they can run. Trading Secrets at least allows a trader to crawl safely to begin with.


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## coyotte (10 August 2006)

MichaelD

Well put !
we have all got to start in kindy !

Wilson's  first 2 books I found to be very dry but packed with info 

Juddy's point about Incredible Charts is very true --- if you go through the "HELP " section Colin has placed a virtual E-book there and on top of that you have the forum archives -- massive amount of info -- PLUS a pretty accurate summary of the markets in his weekly diary 

Anyone tried out the new Egoli Charting package ?
20 Min delayed --- but with intra / enday for FREE !!! 


Cheers


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## CanOz (10 August 2006)

Well said Michael D, well said.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (10 August 2006)

nizar said:
			
		

> I dont really know or understand technical analysis to any great degree and know only the very basics...
> 
> Can any1 recommend any books to read ?
> 
> I heard Edwards and Magee is a really good "manual" but its like $150 - has anybody read this and does any1 rate it ?




A good begining book is "Trading Secrets" by Louise Bedford. Read it and then go to other books.


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## bunyip (10 August 2006)

Frank Watkins book 'Exploding The Myths' hasn't been around for as long as some of the other books, and is therefore less well known. Nevertheless, it's an excellent book written in a no-nonensence style that blows away the chaff and gets down to the wheat.
His chapter on the Darvis Box system is one of the best explanations I've seen of this method.
This entire chapter has been extracted and put into to his booklet titled 'Darvas Box Trading' - it sells for about $9.

One thing I notice when people start commenting about TA books is that some seem to think that the basics are OK to start with, but if you want to get serious about TA then you need to graduate to more advanced TA strategies. 
In my opinion nothing could be further from the truth. Most of the successful traders I know have gone full circle......they started with the basics then explored and experimented with the more advanced and complex systems/strategies.
But they ended up coming back to the basics because they found that the simpler their system, the better they trade.
From my personal experiences I would certainly agree with them.

Bunyip


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## Magdoran (10 August 2006)

MichaelD said:
			
		

> Magdoran,
> 
> I'm going to take you up on this point and disagree with you. Of all the books I have read to date, I still consider Bedford's Trading Secrets the best book for a novice share trader to begin with.
> 
> You've criticized this and other books as "kindergarten" material. That may well be true, but traders must learn to crawl before they can run. Trading Secrets at least allows a trader to crawl safely to begin with.





Wow, Michael, I really must have rattled your cage for you to come out railing on your hind legs like this!  At the outset just let me say that I recognise that you are an intelligent person, and suspect you have great potential to grow as a trader – but that now it is time to step up to exploring alternative ideas and approaches.  (Perhaps it is time for you to venture out of your mechanical play pen?)

Let’s get a few key points straight.  I was very specific in my references to Bedford’s Candlestick approaches in comparison to Bigalow’s  - the topic was “Good T/A books – any suggestions?”.  So, are you really telling me you think Bedford trumps Bigalow?  If you really believe so, then we will have to agree to disagree, I think Bigalow is an excellent book for beginners through to experienced T/A practitioners.  It is comprehensive, easy to understand, and explains the basics in the preface, and goes into depth later on.  It is in my opinion streets ahead of Bedford’s work.

Also, we need to make a distinction between a beginner in T/A and a complete novice.  nizar is not a “Novice” but is a beginner in T/A.  nizar is a regular commentator on commodities (particularly Gold and Zinc, and also actively tracks ZFX and OXR), hence quite knowledgeable and experienced about the market in other areas and knows “only the very basics” about T/A.

So, all your comments about stop losses, methodology, and money management are a side issue to straight “Technical Analysis” as a discipline, aren’t’ they? - I think you have confused the issue here.  The topic was not everything to do with trading, but specifically Technical Analysis.  

On this thread I suggested looking at a pervious thread on the same topic since the second seemed to duplicate the first, a logical step wouldn’t you agree?  On that thread I was very particular in saying I was venturing an alternative opinion about introducing T/A, and in various threads I have outlined why I suggest alternative approaches in that different people have different preferences for how they learn and see the market.

Specifically on the “Testing a mechanical plan” thread I give the analogy of different teaching approaches to music, and how some people rote learn pieces, and others learn how to improvise…  the net result being many musicians can only play music from a staves, while others compose new music, and can “jam” real time.  The same I maintain can be true for how people interpret charts.  Do you remember the discussion we had on the “Testing a mechanical plan” thread (please, everyone revisit this and see so you can understand the point I am making here)? Also, have a look at this discussion on other threads: “Is T/A based on hope?” and “Books on Technical Analysis” again.

I maintain that there is a significant segment of market participants that work better once they harness their creative side of the mind much like the analogy of a musician who is able to improvise in real time to create new melodies.  What I am arguing is that my approach aims to foster this kind of growth to improvise, and that your approach may actually be sabotaging the development of this potential, much like when repetition is imposed on musical students rendering their ability to compose impotent.  Yes, I am suggesting there is a potential for “technically castrating” some people from becoming free thinking chartists by starting them off in the wrong direction.

So, Michael, I wonder how much you’ve really looked outside your current “mechanical approach”?  Specifically have you read anything on Elliott Wave approaches, Gann, George Soros, Weinstein, Larry Williams, Jack Schwager for example so you can compare and contrast the different styles?  I went through the mechanical stage too, and played around with moving averages and oscillators (I note you like the ATR a lot).  The difference is I have actively pursued a range of different styles perhaps not unlike martial arts schools, and have opted for a (Bruce Lee like) fluid approach rejecting rigidity.

Michael, you need to recognise the bias in your approach to T/A, and try to look outside the box so you don’t impose this restrictive approach on newer traders (I’m certainly aware of my bias, and openly acknowledge it in my posts).  I suspect you haven’t really looked at many of the alternative schools of thought, have you? I would argue that this significantly limits the base of knowledge you are drawing on, and makes it nearly impossible for you to be anything approaching objective in understanding of alternative schools of thinking on T/A, until you make the intellectually challenging journey to explore T/A more thoroughly. 

In the previous discussion I thought three books on T/A emerged that were not a bad starting place (and did note that this was an individual pursuit, and that everyone will have their own preference).  I thought Weinstein, Schwager and Bigalow were suitable… I also stated that this was just my opinion, and stated so – not gospel.  



			
				MichaelD said:
			
		

> Novices will simply turn their noses up at books on the psychology of trading - these messages are for much later.
> 
> I don't believe anyone wanting to start trading the markets can possibly start with the psychology of trading. In the beginning it's all about profits and calling the broker on the mobile phone from the yacht whilst surrounded by popping champagne corks. Try and suggest that the enemy is within you to a novice trader and see what happens.




And this assertion is based on what evidence and experience? How much have you actually thought about how significant psychology is to colouring an individuals perceptions of both the market itself and T/A as a discipline (ala Douglas)?  How many traders have you worked with and tried various approaches with?  Have you actively tried using and not using Douglas for instance?

What I’m getting at is how many people have you actually worked with doing this and pioneered approaches that you have found effective for helping people develop to their maximum potential?  I have spent years doing so, but I’m hardly objective either.  I can only venture my best shot guess based on my experience with people, and comment with a genuine intent to help people find their way to develop the best approach to suit them.

I would argue that over time, I found that using Douglas early on resulted in much more fluid thinking and less emotional damage to newer traders.  I found that these people recovered more quickly, and developed the “probabilistic mindset” more effectively than those who blundered through.  But on the key topic of technical analysis, it actually allowed many to use their creative side, and develop into effective chartists.

But my sample is not what you would call representative on a national sample level, I think for a comprehensive result an academic study would have to be conducted numbering in the thousands to be accurate. Interestingly, I found the majority do not “turn their noses up” at Douglas – the majority responded very well to it, so from my experience I don’t agree with you here.



			
				MichaelD said:
			
		

> You've criticized this and other books as "kindergarten" material. That may well be true, but traders must learn to crawl before they can run. Trading Secrets at least allows a trader to crawl safely to begin with.




Now this specious argument implying that I am saying people need to start at the most complex level is sheer bunk, and I object to being mis represented in this way Michael.  I clearly do not hold this view.  I agree that people need to crawl before they walk.  I just don’t think Bedford’s candlestick approach is as good as Bigalow’s.  Where we differ is that you think any old toy is OK for a child to learn with.  I argue that there are qualitative differences in learning delivery even in infancy, and that significant advantages go to those who are fed on a more nutritious diet.  I want my kids to have fluoride so they grow up with strong teeth.  Do you get my analogy?  Don’t impose rote learning, and do give the newer players the best starter material around, it’s that simple.

I hope that clears things up a bit.


Regards


Magdoran


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## MichaelD (10 August 2006)

> the topic was “Good T/A books – any suggestions?”.



Gotta admit you've got me there - indeed that's the topic, not good trading books which is what my reply addressed. Hey, there's nothing wrong with the answer - it's the question which is wrong. )

...and now to get off-topic...



> ...now it is time to step up to exploring alternative ideas and approaches. (Perhaps it is time for you to venture out of your mechanical play pen?)



Interestingly, I have developed and am currently paper trading two discretionary systems, one ASX and one FOREX. My real money remains very happily trading my mechanical system for the moment until I complete about 30 trades in each of the paper systems.

Why the change?

I have determined that I need to develop more than one system in order to decorrelate my returns. Decorrelation 1 is FOREX. Decorrelation 2 is a substantially shorter timeframe on the ASX. Long term trend following doesn't work 100% robustly on FOREX, hence the need to look at other approaches. Decorrelation 2 requires a different exit to a mechanical ATR exit which I can't code into TradeSim so can't backtest mechanically.



> ...much like when repetition is imposed on musical students rendering their ability to compose impotent.



I disagree. This is like putting books in front of children and expecting them to learn to read by recognizing the words. What does this lead to? Year 7 students who can't read (it's happening in some primary schools in the USA - a potential generation of illiterates is very scary).

In the case of trading, the cost of learning without a rigid structure could well be blowing up your capital. That's a bit more significant than either learning or not to play a musical instrument.

Learning to trade isn't as straightforward as trial and error learning anything else; the markets will often reward incorrect trading behaviour with profits and correct trading behaviour with losses - it's pretty hard to learn from this without a structure to guide you.

"Do exactly this and you will be profitable" - a safe way to learn to trade. Many may stop there. Others will move onwards.



> Specifically have you read anything on Elliott Wave approaches, Gann, George Soros, Weinstein, Larry Williams, Jack Schwager for example so you can compare and contrast the different styles?



Elliott Wave: Yes - Radge, and plan to read more
Gann: No
Weinstein: On my list of books to read soon
Williams: Later
Schwager: On my list of books to read soon
Douglas: Soon
Fibonacci interests me
Pivot points interest me
Random Walk Down Wall Street: very interested in reading this


A positive expectancy mechanical trading system frees me to remain in contact with the market safely and profitably whilst I consider other approaches. It also gives me a database of real completed trades to consider and study the consequences of - ones which do not have any backtesting bias.

In market conditions such as we are experiencing at the moment, this approach means I'm a LOT better off than the bull market champions who are currently painfully haemorrhaging to death.


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## Magdoran (11 August 2006)

MichaelD said:
			
		

> Gotta admit you've got me there - indeed that's the topic, not good trading books which is what my reply addressed. Hey, there's nothing wrong with the answer - it's the question which is wrong. )
> 
> ...and now to get off-topic...
> 
> ...



Hello Michael,

What???  You haven’t read Douglas???  Michael, my jaw just dropped.  I am stunned.  Oh, you are in for a treat!  Once you’re read this, I think you’ll start to see what I’m on about much more clearly.  Both his major works are really worth reading.  This explains a lot, because I was addressing you assuming you’d read it cover to cover and it was a foundation stone for you, but now that I think about it, it was coyote who was the enlightened one…  Thanks for being honest though, that takes courage, and I appreciate that as a quality in you.

Ok, I need to flesh out my methodology a bit for it to make sense…  I used to teach people how to play guitar in my Uni days to bring in extra income, and used to play in a few bands over the years… hence the music analogy.  Perhaps I need to make a distinction between practicing notes repetitiously to improve motor skills in execution, and the ability to improvise conceptually free of rote patterns using the individual notes learnt but in an original melody created by the student.  Does that make sense?  One part is learning the theory behind the music, the other is actually making it real time – essentially the theory and the practice.  It is often in the combination of the two many had difficulty with.

If I was just “putting books in front of children and expecting them to learn to read by recognizing the words” you would be correct, this is insufficient, and you need to ensure students understand a range of areas of knowledge to grasp language – the individual letters, the way letters are used together, grammar rules, phonetics, cultural norms and context, etc etc.

What I’m talking about using your analogy is to inspire the individual to develop the capacity to both learn to construct their own written works, and to develop their ability to imagine and create.  It is the objective to empower the individual to think and learn for themselves that is at the core here.

When it comes to trading, sure, there are foundations for knowledge that need to be understood to glean the technical technique of a particular approach – this is true of most methods of analysis.  Part of the problem I see stems from ingraining “taken for granted concepts” when they preclude the ability to innovate new approaches. When you read Douglas you may recognise the concept of how individuals colour their view and impose it on the market unconsciously.  Gann talked about traders having a bias when looking at charts (either bullish or bearish), and McLaren talks about people having a bias in overstaying positions (greed) or in jumping out to early (fear). 

In teaching Guitar for example I found people who had either not learned the correct fingering for future development into more complex patterns of music, which impaired their capacity to seamlessly execute particular phrases.  The other problem was with the ability to create their own music, either they couldn’t develop the ability to conceive of pieces in their head, or they were rendered unable to improvise because they needed the music in front of them to play because of the early way that they were taught, and just couldn’t compose.

The same I would argue is true for how people develop the analytical skills in Technical Analysis.  This is why I think it is important to get the building blocks for future development in place right from the start.  Another key element is how the mind works – hence the psychology can actually colour what you’re looking at despite the foundation concepts you have learned.  The way you assemble them to make an assessment is as relevant as understanding the concepts, perhaps more so. 

Some people I suspect just aren’t suited to T/A full stop.  Others are more suited to mathematical calculations, and do better using statistical approaches. Then there are the group that I think I fit best into which is the visual conceptual group, which involves the ability to recognise complex patterns.  I used to play chess a lot in my youth (even played some of the masters at one time if you can believe it – didn’t win though, but was offered a draw on occasion – that tussle in the middle to endgame used to bring me undone, I was never quite up to the challenge at this level).  What I could do though was to “see” many moves ahead (I think at one time I was seeing over 20 moves ahead at my peak – probably be lucky to see 5 now Hahaha…).  But it is the pattern recognition, and the ability to imagine future events that is a key ability I would argue for using T/A.

I think that many of the schools of thought like Elliott and Gann have a lot to offer, but take time to understand.  Bunyip has it right though that once you master this stuff, you do look for simplicity.  It’s a bit like Einstein boiling down all the complexity behind the theory of relativity into one simple formula… but he had pages of proof to demonstrate the theory, and needed an exceptional talent to “see” the simplicity out of the complexity.

I think trading is the same – it’s about screening out the “noise” and boiling it all down into a simple equation – conditions to enter, and a plan of where and when to exit – both partial profits and stop losses included.  But this is easier said than done.  I think the true masters of any discipline have this ability to intuitively go to the root of the problem, and the best solutions are the elegant ones…

I think I also need to raise an point about what I’m suggesting for newer traders – I advocate that they either paper trade for at least 12 months if not much more (maybe even 2-3 years), or at least trade very small positions to learn before committing real capital.  This is so they don’t “blow up their accounts” as you say.  Where I think we differ is that I believe this is one of the hardest games in town, and that it requires serious and concerted effort to succeed in the long run.  Sure it’s fairly easy to make profits when the market is trending bullishly strongly, but it’s in bear and sideways markets that the wheat is separated from the chaff.

Good luck with your endeavours to change, I could hear it in your previous post.  This is a challenging time for you, and you will push your boundaries, but ultimately this is what it is all about, standing at the brink feeling forwards and developing.  I look forward to reading your posts once you’ve had time to digest Douglas.  If you really want to blow your mind when you feel ready with some really advanced T/A concepts, let me know.  The fact you are surviving in the current market conditions augers well, doesn’t it?


Regards


Magdoran


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## professor_frink (11 August 2006)

I completely agree with you about Tharp and Douglas Magdoran- they are 2 books that I would recommend someone who wants to learn read. Once someone has gotten a grasp of the concepts in those books, they are alot better prepared to deal with T/A and trading in general. When I first began, I picked up a couple of books by Guppy and it ended up taking me a long time to really get a grasp of trading- enter Tharp and Douglas- results improved alot after that.

Nizar,

My recommendation for you learning about T/A would be this-
1. Go and read Tharp and Douglas.
2. Go and get some software with bactesting capabilities. Play around with all the pretty indicators and find a few that you like, then test them out over various timeframes(bull,bear and sideways markets). This doesn't mean that I'm recommending you look into mechanical trading, but being able to test out any ideas you have will be a huge benefit. You'll end up figuring out how well various things like moving averages, oscillators, etc work in different conditions.

Basically any indicator that a charting package has will work well in a bullmarket. If you are looking for shorts, then the same indicators will work well when they are reversed for a bearmarket. Not much will work well in a sideways market. It's pretty well that simple(unless you want get into elliot wave or gann, if you do, disregard my post  )


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## dutchie (11 August 2006)

Q: A good book to read on T/A ?

A: Every book you can lay your hands on and have the time to read.

Great suggestions and discussion going on here.

I am of the opinion that the more you can read/listen to others/watch etc the better.

Which book to start with, what to read, what not to read – who knows.

That will vary for every person, as it is impossible to predict what someone will learn from any one experience.

Some may start with Bedford for example and find it good in regard to where they are on their learning curve, others may be lucky enough to find Radge  (or Douglas) and find them the gems they thought they were looking for.

 The point is that we all learn differently at different speeds. Forums like this facilitate the spreading of ideas and concepts about the subject and in this instance what they perceive as good reading material to expand ones knowledge.

I suggest that you read as much as you can (especially if it interests you and hits a chord in the way you think).

Go to your local library, google the net, join a forum, borrow a book from a friend (and return it!), speak to other traders, attend a seminar.

I have always worked on the philosophy that even if I only get 1% out of a book/seminar/talk etc then I am 1% ahead of where I was before.

Accumulate knowledge.

One of the main problems for most people (me included) is that they read one book and think because they got it (the material in the book) they are ready to trade (and do so) and often loose their shirt and leave the game (a little poorer).

It is only when you start accumulating knowledge that you realize how much there is still to learn (it never stops).

So my advice is to read any book you can. Be guided by other peoples experience and suggestions but remember everyone is at a different place along the road of knowledge so be flexible and spongy (soak it all in).

Put the time in to learn before you start trading. When you realize how much you still need to know then your closer to being ready to trade.

Cheers

Dutchie


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## bunyip (11 August 2006)

dutchie said:
			
		

> Q: A good book to read on T/A ?
> 
> A: Every book you can lay your hands on and have the time to read.
> 
> ...




Reading lots of TA books and getting a huge amount of information can be a two-edged sword.

On the one hand, by trying out numerous ideas, concepts, strategies, indicators etc, you eventually learn what works and what doesn't, and just as importantly, what sort of trading style/system suits your personality and fits in with your lifestyle. 

On the other hand I've seen traders who had so much knowledge and information that they didn't know if they were Arthur or Martha.
Too many indicators, too many strategies, too much information, too many conflicting signals...the long and short of it was that that they had difficulty making rational trading decisions.

I've always maintained that the simpler your system the better you'll trade. 
But I've found that a huge amount of knowledge and information is not conductive to formulating and implementing a simple system.
Sure it can be done.....I myself trade just a couple of very simple setups. But having read more than fifty books on Technical Analysis and tried out just about all the strategies and indicators they taught me about, I can tell you it was a struggle to sort the wheat from the chaff and toss out much of the information in my head, and trim it all down to just a couple of setups that repeat over and over again.
It would have been a far easier journey for me if at the outset I'd found someone who said...... 'Look - here's a simple strategy I've traded profitably for years.....just trade this one strategy, forget about learning anything else, forget about reading all those TA books, trade only this strategy, control your losses, and you'll do very well over time."

Regrettably, such a person didn't appear at the start of my trading career, so what I did instead was read all those books and buy a couple of courses and put in the hard yards until I found out what worked and what didn't, and what suited my lifestyle.

Bunyip


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## dutchie (11 August 2006)

Bunyip

Your absolutely right, it can be a two edged sword of having too much information.

Part of the learning experience must also involve the analysis of the information gathered. Whats useful - whats not.

But I suppose statistically you have a better chance of making a better decision about anything (especially relationship issues) if you have as much of the information that is available.

Cheers

Dutchie


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## Magdoran (11 August 2006)

dutchie said:
			
		

> Q: A good book to read on T/A ?
> 
> A: Every book you can lay your hands on and have the time to read.
> 
> ...



Hello Dutchie,

I fully agree with your perspective here, this certainly lines up with my experience.  It was only be trial and error, and poking around everything I could find that I was able to develop an understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of each approach.

I think you have to journey through a period of discovery in part to explore what’s out there in the way of existing knowledge and approaches, and then there is the inner journey and self discovery – what your own bias is, how you learn, how you perceive, what your psychological make up is on several levels.  I think we all impose our view of the world on situations, and this is the cornerstone of Douglas’ approach.  

Once a person is aware of the way that each individuals past experience necessarily colours their view about anything, this recognition can form the basis for compensating for bias in all the aspects of life, including trading as a discipline, and Technical Analysis as an art.

So I agree, read everything you can – sometimes a mentor may be able to give you a short cut to really move ahead and avoid some pitfalls too, but also maintaining an open but discerning mind is a way of avoiding stagnation, and ensuring concerted growth to meet the ongoing changes and new challenges in a dynamic market.


Regards,


Magdoran


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## dutchie (11 August 2006)

G'day Magdoran

That has been my experience too.

You have also touched on a very important factor - that of a mentor.

A mentor may be able to let you take shortcuts, as you mentioned, especially if he knows you and what your aims are. A personal one that you respect is ideal. 

Belonging to a Forum like this is also beneficial as substitute mentor - all a member has to do is ask.

Cheers

Dutchie


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## Magdoran (11 August 2006)

bunyip said:
			
		

> Reading lots of TA books and getting a huge amount of information can be a two-edged sword.
> 
> On the one hand, by trying out numerous ideas, concepts, strategies, indicators etc, you eventually learn what works and what doesn't, and just as importantly, what sort of trading style/system suits your personality and fits in with your lifestyle.
> 
> ...



Hello Bunyip,


I’ve read a lot of your posts in the past, and certainly found myself in agreement with some of your comments.  You have raised some interesting points which I'd like to address.

I note for instance that you found Stan Weinstein valuable at one stage in your development, and combined this with Watkins (no I haven’t read this, so would be interested in knowing as much as you can summarise about 'Exploding the Myths' by Frank Watkins).



			
				bunyip said:
			
		

> (From: Which one do you use? Technical or fundamental analysis – Post 310.
> 
> ... I suggest you start with Weinstein's book which does an excellent job of explaining in clear language how to apply the concept of relative strength to find the outperforming sectors and the outperforming stocks in those sectors.
> 
> ...





Now, bunyip, tell me, does this not in one sense contradict your assertion of simplicity since you actually had to seek these books out, then study them, and then implement them, which must have used some trial and error? Also, how many other works did you have to trawl through to find these works which you didn’t find of value?  Also, when you did find Weinstein didn’t it have a positive effect on your trading since the core concept actually improved your results?  Doesn’t this actually support what dutchie and I are saying?  A lot depends on the semantics really, doesn’t it?

Your comment quoted above was in response to a debate with BSD.  BSD at the time was arguing (albeit not very diplomatically, and somewhat aggressively) that continuing to expand your knowledge was important to developing an effective long term understanding of the market.  I think he missed your point too, that if you can develop an effective approach that works consistently for a tradeable period of time and that simplicity in the approach is of value.  Both are true in my view – but your point is only true while the approach works in a particular market climate.

Where you might come unstuck though (which was something I think BSD was asserting) is when the market conditions change, and your approach no longer works as effectively, or may no longer work at all.  For example, I have been reading some works recently which touch on the history of structured financial instruments through the 80’s and beyond when people like Krieger, Wheat and others plumbed the markets for substantial amounts of capital by selling various hedging approaches to major market players and corporations.  

What happened was interesting.  As new derivative approaches were developed there was a time when arbitrage could be utilised to make huge profits, but these opportunities had a limited time of application since the market became increasingly competitive as competitors worked out the opportunities too.  Then the investment banks had to invent new approaches to find new sources of profits as the market changed.

I would argue the same is true for the past and the present, and is likely to be true for the future, that certain approaches have application in specific conditions.  This is why the traders who are successful in the long term are not stagnant.

I certainly take your point about knowledge overload being a problem.  It is certainly true that people become confused if they are overwhelmed with a deluge of information (isn’t the net a bit like this these days?).  The problem is not the information itself, but the individual’s capacity to absorb and process the information meaningfully.  Then the next step is to apply the knowledge effectively.  Part of the problem is figuring out which approach works best, and how well suited the individual is in utilising one method or another.  

When someone starts out they have in effect a very small amount of direct experience to draw on. But they can access the information that is broadly available in the world.  The problem is for the newer individual to develop the capacity to understand the concepts, and then meaningfully evaluate the different approaches.  Also, individuals are not static, they learn often in a dynamic and unique way.  So this is why I suggest people should study a lot, paper trade or trade small position for a long time, and examine everything they can, and recognise that this is a complex process.  The key is for the individual to find what works for them, isn’t it?

Isn’t this exactly what you have done, gone on a journey of exploration and discovery, and come back with your version of “gold”?  Do you really think you could have just gone straight to where you are now without having gained the experience you have now when you were starting out?  It is precisely this experience that forms the bedrock of your approach, isn’t it?  How else could you appraise the effectiveness of your current style if you hadn’t searched and developed?  The answer is you probably wouldn’t recognise what you are doing right (or wrong) without having done this.  Does that make sense?

Further, when market conditions change, and your approach starts to fail or not return as well, you may find that you have to adapt as the market changes.  You may even find much more profitable approaches and adopt/pioneer these as you grow, if you allow yourself the time and effort to do so, and perhaps more importantly the will and drive to adapt and develop.

Why not revisit this in a few years time, and see what your perspective is like then.  How does that sound?  At least consider that others may work differently to you, and this kind of approach may benefit them even if you remain static.


Regards



Magdoran


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## Magdoran (11 August 2006)

dutchie said:
			
		

> G'day Magdoran
> 
> That has been my experience too.
> 
> ...



Hello Dutchie,

Very true, having a good mentor makes a huge difference, and I suppose to some extent ASF may link people to potential mentors, but I can’t guarantee the quality… The quality of the posts and posters vary about as much as the current market! Hahahaha!  

It’s a bit like the current online dating craze, and a bit like Forrest Gump “life’s a box of chocolates – you never know what you’re going to get!”.


Your’s in mirth


Magdoran


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## MichaelD (11 August 2006)

> The other problem was with the ability to create their own music, either they couldn’t develop the ability to conceive of pieces in their head, or they were rendered unable to improvise because they needed the music in front of them to play because of the early way that they were taught, and just couldn’t compose.



Maybe it's simply because they were simply not ever going to be any good at it - not all people are a Miles Davis or a Beethoven.

To turn this analogy back to trading it would seem to imply that you consider that everyone has it in them to succeed at trading using one approach or another, and I don't believe this is true at all.



> But it is the pattern recognition, and the ability to imagine future events that is a key ability I would argue for using T/A.



Van Tharp quotes work by Le Beau (from memory) which points out that after 5 periods, any given entry pattern is no better than a random coin toss in terms of overall expectancy.

There are many profitable traders, all using different entry and analysis strategies. What do they have in common?

And that at the end of the day is the bottom line for me. WILL THE APPLICATION OF ANY ONE SCHOOL OF THOUGHT MAKE ME **MORE** PROFITABLE THAN I CURRENTLY AM?

Until I can prove to my own satisfaction that it can, then I'm sticking with simple stuff that works for my real money.



> I advocate that they either paper trade for at least 12 months if not much more (maybe even 2-3 years)



How many newbie traders will be willing to do this - after all, they might miss out on all those profits on the one way stock market elevator?



> Where I think we differ is that I believe this is one of the hardest games in town.



Not at all. We agree here. Trading profitably is simplicity itself...but it is NOT EASY. It is extraordinarily HARD, but not for the reasons that novices think when they start. ("If I just change the MA from 30 to 28 days then I'll make twice as much money...")


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## Magdoran (11 August 2006)

MichaelD said:
			
		

> Maybe it's simply because they were simply not ever going to be any good at it - not all people are a Miles Davis or a Beethoven.
> 
> To turn this analogy back to trading it would seem to imply that you consider that everyone has it in them to succeed at trading using one approach or another, and I don't believe this is true at all.



Hello Michael,


You know, you have picked a point that I’m really divided on interestingly, and that is the eternal question about wether everyone has the capacity to achieve anything they put their mind to.

Simple answer from me is I just don’t know.  I don’t know because there are so many variables in the world, and people continue to surprise me.

On one hand you would think that genetics and upbringing would determine a lot (and they do), but occasionally someone does something exceptional and unexpected that makes you wonder about perceived limitations.

I did actually recognise “Some people I suspect just aren’t suited to T/A full stop.”  In post 15 on this thread.

I suppose that if we look at probabilities, a whole raft of people are very unlikely to be successful in the market, but is this irrespective of using a range of effective approaches, or is it that they are using the wrong approaches?  I’m really not sure about this.

Why do some people succeed where others fail – individual capacity, system, analysis, psychology, discipline, or maybe even luck?

I agree, the majority are not going to be a Beethoven or a Miles Davis, good analogy, so most of us aren’t going to be a Buffet, or a Soros.

What I can say is that at least people reading these threads are attempting to inform themselves, and that they hopefully stand a better chance of succeeding, or at least investing more wisely than those who do nothing – of course this depends on how they approach risk management, and what advice and information source they access.  But sometimes a little bit of knowledge can be harmful too.  This is not an easy equation.

Actually, if you read my comments carefully, I do have a bias towards people who think visually or conceptually as I suggested, since this type of person is more likely to benefit from a solid foundation I’m suggesting in the long run.  Some of my approaches are clearly a waste of time to some newer T/A aspirants, and I recognise that my T/A approach is certainly not the majority approach… but the majority I would argue get it wrong fairly consistently, wouldn’t you agree?  So our core audiences are more of a select group.

But still, I think it is worthwhile to offer alternatives for people to consider, and if they are offered a smorgasbord of choices, some may really benefit from the diversity of information, at least this is my hope.


Regards,


Magdoran


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## JCB (14 August 2006)

Check out these reviews-
http://www.moneybags.com.au/guru.asp?a=74


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## billhill (23 November 2006)

Hi guys. Sorry to bring up an old post but i've always been more a findamental investor rather then a technical trader however joining this site has wet my appetite and i wish to learn a bit about T/A. I understand the basics now and am quite interested in trend trading in particular. I know alot of books have already been mentioned on this thread but i would like to know any quality books that deal with trend trading.

Thanks, billhill.


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## MichaelD (23 November 2006)

billhill said:
			
		

> i would like to know any quality books that deal with trend trading.



As a first text which will give you all the essential concepts to trend trade profitably, I reckon it's hard to beat Trading Secrets by Louise Bedford.


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## Magdoran (23 November 2006)

MichaelD said:
			
		

> As a first text which will give you all the essential concepts to trend trade profitably, I reckon it's hard to beat Trading Secrets by Louise Bedford.



Oh no, Michael, not again.


You are a stirrer aren't you?  Either that, or you have royalties coming in for plugging Bedford! Hahaha.  You are stubborn aren’t you?

I'm not getting into this argument again.  Please billhill read all the previous comments on this thread and make up your own mind.

I still think Bedford is fifth rate at best.

Now, Michael, do tell me, have you read any of the works we were discussing yet?  Have you read Douglas yet (not T/A by the way)?


Regards


Magdoran


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## MichaelD (24 November 2006)

Magdoran said:
			
		

> You are stubborn aren’t you?
> 
> Now, Michael, do tell me, have you read any of the works we were discussing yet?  Have you read Douglas yet (not T/A by the way)?



Indeed I am stubborn (and yes I like stirring on occasion), however I still haven't read any book on trend trading which I consider is better than Bedford as an *introductory* text. If I read a better one, I'll change my opinion. (We'll have to agree to disagree.)

Yes, I have now read Douglas. There are many powerful insights in Douglas and I have taken much of it on board...but I was most of the way there already. I had well and truly accepted the concept of each trade as a probabilistic outcome before reading Douglas. The most potent concept for me contained within Douglas is that the market simply "is" and it is our superimposed beliefs that generate an emotional response to it. (The boy vs dog examples were particularly thought-provoking.)


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## Magdoran (24 November 2006)

MichaelD said:
			
		

> Indeed I am stubborn (and yes I like stirring on occasion), however I still haven't read any book on trend trading which I consider is better than Bedford as an *introductory* text. If I read a better one, I'll change my opinion. (We'll have to agree to disagree.)
> 
> Yes, I have now read Douglas. There are many powerful insights in Douglas and I have taken much of it on board...but I was most of the way there already. I had well and truly accepted the concept of each trade as a probabilistic outcome before reading Douglas. The most potent concept for me contained within Douglas is that the market simply "is" and it is our superimposed beliefs that generate an emotional response to it. (The boy vs dog examples were particularly thought-provoking.)



Hello Michael,


Glad you found it of interest.  I agree, the boy vs dog is a nice metaphor to get an otherwise complex concept over quite elegantly.

I figured you’d worked out a lot about psychology, but it is the “colouring” of charts that is well addressed by Douglas.

Good to see you’re continuing to expand your knowledge!


Regards


Magdoran

P.S. You’re a very naughty boy (said in a “Monty Python-esque” voice).


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## billhill (24 November 2006)

Thanks guys for the input. Actually have red befords book MichaelD and magdoran i have read the previous posts but whats these do not indicate is whether they are good for teaching trend trading as opposed to other technical techniques such as trading breakouts. Basically i want more advanced information on identifying trends, how to enter them effectively and how to exit them.


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## MichaelD (24 November 2006)

billhill said:
			
		

> Basically i want more advanced information on identifying trends, how to enter them effectively and how to exit them.



Identifying uptrends: Price is going up.
How to enter them: Buy at market.
How to exit them: Trailing stop.

It doesn't have to be fancy to be profitable.

However, if you have read Bedford, then from there I suggest Van Tharp's Trading Your Way To Financial Freedom for extensive discussion of various exit techniques (amongst other useful things).


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## Magdoran (25 November 2006)

billhill said:
			
		

> Thanks guys for the input. Actually have red befords book MichaelD and magdoran i have read the previous posts but whats these do not indicate is whether they are good for teaching trend trading as opposed to other technical techniques such as trading breakouts. Basically i want more advanced information on identifying trends, how to enter them effectively and how to exit them.



Hello Billhill,


Ok, T/A is an art form.  Because it involves one very salient variable: … and that is YOU – your capacity, capability, tenacity, imagination, psychology, sheer perspicacity, luck, experience, diligence, intestinal fortitude, focus, learning aptitude, flexibility (of mind and emotion), determination, etc etc… you get the picture.

There are endless books and websites, seminars, DVDs, tapes, courses, mentors… which one is a “goldilocks” (just right) for you?  This is your mission that you are on now…

Everyone is unique.  There is no panacea, there only disparate trail of bread crumbs across the internet and media, trading groups and an array of money making dog and pony shows that might lead you to something worthwhile, or may not.

This site I believe has many worthwhile starting points and suggestions that are much more salient than most of the deluge of guff poured out worldwide.

Developing ways to become consistently profitable in the market is a journey of discovery, which I believe only ends when you do, if you stay true to your aspirations to succeed.  Reality – most fall by the wayside, or clamber up slowly over many years.

So I say it again in a nutshell.  If you really had read all my posts and understood them (and not only me but a host of other gifted individuals too), then you wouldn’t be asking this question.  Read the posts, make notes, and do the research.  It’s all there if you follow the breadcrumbs.  We can’t join the dots for you.  That is something you have to do.  You can’t expect to be spoon fed.

Many posters have spent considerable time formulating excellent sources of knowledge on this site for no material gain.  Please, billhill, at least do us the courtesy of reading and considering what we have to say, then try raising some informed questions on points that you can’t fathom on your own that you need to clarify.  This requires that you fully study all the information and understand as much as you can, unearthing what speaks to you and works for you.  It’s that simple.  That’s what we all had to do, and continue to do so – do the hard yards.

I will put a small list for you in a nutshell – Weinstein, Bigalow, Schwager, good basic nuts and bolts.  Bunyip likes Darvas and Watkins.  Coyotte likes Guppy and Wilson.  MichaelD likes Bedford.  Add to that Pring, Williams, Prechter and Frost, McLaren, Edwards and McGee, Dow, R.N. Elliott, W.D. Gann (and all the revisionists too many to mention here).  And there are many more I haven’t covered here that are listed on the various threads mentioned.

Read them all.  When you’ve done that Re read them all.  Form or seek out trading groups and contact those willing to discuss, read all the relevant threads on this site.  Follow every bread crumb you think is worthwhile, and even some you’re not sure of, but are convinced to do so by people you respect in the field.

Or just follow someone established in T/A (like bunyip, tech/a, wavepicker, for example, or anyone else you choose – whether you are oriented to mechanical, chart, Darvas, Wilson/Guppy, Elliott, Gann, or any other school), and keep it simple if you don’t want to journey on your own path.

If you want the psychological and system components read Douglas, Phantom of the Pits, Ari Kiev, Van Tharp, Radge etc etc…

Realise that there are whole schools of thought written in great detail about determining trends, and how to trade them.  And in each of these schools that are distinct groupings and quite disparate interpretations of past works.  This is a serious exercise, and to think you can reduce it to a shopping list is folly.

If you want my opinion, or anyone else that seems to make any sense, go back and read every post that has been made by a person you think may have pieces of the puzzle you need.  Do not expect this to be an instant coffee and just add water.  If you pursue the knowledge, I’m sure you will unearth much wisdom which is contained in the many worthwhile posts on this site.  

It’s up to you billhill.  Good luck with your journey.


Regards



Magdoran


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## billhill (25 November 2006)

Thanks michaelD and magdoran. MichaelD am actually currently reading van Tharp so i seem to be on the right track. Magdoran i'm trying not to come off as ignorant and beleive me i have read as much as i can on T/A books on this site. I also understant that T\A is about ones own system and not that simply copied from other traders. What i merely wish to do is prioritise my selection of books to those that others have found particually useful. 

I do not wish to waste time reading books that in the sceme of things have helped very few people. I think i may have badly worded my first post. I have read enough to identify that a mid to long term trend tradings system would suite my personality. However i do wish to learn as much as possible. What i was trying to say in my first post was from those book previousely mentioned and those not could anyone recommend ones they have found helpful in developing a trend trading system that is all. People recommend books but for all i know they may be entirely based on breakout trading for example. I hope this clarifies what i am getting at.

Thanks billhill.


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## Magdoran (25 November 2006)

billhill said:
			
		

> Thanks michaelD and magdoran. MichaelD am actually currently reading van Tharp so i seem to be on the right track. Magdoran i'm trying not to come off as ignorant and beleive me i have read as much as i can on T/A books on this site. I also understant that T\A is about ones own system and not that simply copied from other traders. What i merely wish to do is prioritise my selection of books to those that others have found particually useful.
> 
> I do not wish to waste time reading books that in the sceme of things have helped very few people. I think i may have badly worded my first post. I have read enough to identify that a mid to long term trend tradings system would suite my personality. However i do wish to learn as much as possible. What i was trying to say in my first post was from those book previousely mentioned and those not could anyone recommend ones they have found helpful in developing a trend trading system that is all. People recommend books but for all i know they may be entirely based on breakout trading for example. I hope this clarifies what i am getting at.
> 
> Thanks billhill.



Ok billhill,

Here’s the most powerful T/A combination I know – McLaren, Prechter and Frost, backed by psychology texts so you don’t colour your T/A - Douglas and maybe add Phantom of the Pits.  Possibly add to that Bigalow, Williams, and for outside the box non –T/A thinking, Soros.  

But these are advanced concepts, and require considerable application.  Weinstein and Darvas/Watkins are more in the breakout schools.

Also as an alternative, have a look at tech/A’s tech trader for long term mechanical approaches if you don’t want to study wave structure, or charting based concepts.  You could also look at techs works on this site concerning T/A theories too where he is explaining his discretionary approaches.  Even if you prefer non mechanical approaches, it is worthwhile to examine a range of different styles.  It is well known I have a heavy bias to the non-mechanical, intuitive/discretionary, time cycle and wave structure styles. These may or may not suit you.  

But if you’re talking pure charting, Mclaren is the best material for understanding charts I have come across, combined with Prechter and Frost, this forms a formidable grounding in pure charting.  

If this works for you, then geometry approaches like Bryce Gilmore’s works for example may be of interest, and of course McLaren’s time cycle and Gann based interpretations and concepts – but you really need the foundations first for this to be effective.  But this is very involved T/A, and is radically different from the orthodox schools, and only a small minority really master this kind of T/A.

wavepicker for instance uses a Prechter and Frost inspired interpretation of Elliott Wave principle, and augmented it with the Mclaren foundations materials without embarking on the Gann materials.

But this assumes you may want to embark on pure charting, where you may want to use oscillators and moving averages for instance.  Personally I don’t use these, perhaps with the exception of the way wavepicker uses a displacement/cycle approach.  So a lot depends on where you want to go.  Tech’s system is an excellent place to go if you prefer the mechanical side of T/A – if this is your oyster, check tech trader out. 

If you want to understand how any of the T/A based posters work, go back and read what we’ve said and debated.  Between the reposts there may be some valuable T/A observations not contained anywhere else.

Once you’ve read all our posts, you’ll know where each poster's bias lays, and can make up your own mind as to which works will suit your continued development.

How’s that?


Magdoran


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## billhill (25 November 2006)

Thanks magdoran. Thats what i was looking for. i appreciate your input.

billhill


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## coyotte (26 November 2006)

billhill :

think it is a bit more than defining just the time frame .
you also need to define the " type " of stocks eg : small cap to blue chip along with the volatility .

for example Nick Radge's methods are tops for the top 300 but I would presume  would not be suitable for the small caps.
as the foundation of Radge's method is Elliott Waves , this to would probably not be suitable either for small caps or volatile stocks .

This is where I think Guppy is coming from when he states that most US  methods are not suitable for OZ , being composed of mainly small cap volatile stocks .

although this could now be changing with the Oz market starting to mature with larger cap companies , shorting and cfds , maybe we are in a stage when these methods where developed in the US 


For " Trend Trading " most Aussie stocks Guppy's book " Trend Trading " is both a easy read along with a kiss  approach -- apart from GMMAs no indicators are involved and you are entering the stock only when the trend is underway -- although I think a bit of extra work on setting trailing stops is required than Guppy is stating --- otherwise a good proven KISS  trend trading system for the medium to long term . ( 1 month then for  as long as the trend remains in tact )


Wilson picks up where Guppy leaves off with tread trading in " The Business of Share Trading " with Stops, ADX ,  etc but the book is not devoted to "trend trading " but more a intro to trading  ., 


As mentioned prior Weinstein's book is worth a read for the 4 stage approach to " trend trading " in both Bull & Bear markets as much as  to keep reminding you of the BASICS 


IF YOUR ARE  PREPARED TO PAY $55 A MONTH , STICK WITHIN THE TOP 300 AU STOCKS .( ps READ Adaptive Analysis FIRST )

Then Nick Radge's Service is the way to go -- stocks both long and short  term , with analysis and WHY---  BUT up to YOU to carrying on the analys



BUT as I have stated in prior threads -- LEARN TO TRADE --- Analyists  are a dime a dozen --- I've had one very well respected Analyist on this site imply that my methods can not work -- well guess what ! ---- LHG  hitting $3.00 again from  3 out of 3 trades since lare Sept  --- thats the difference between a Trader and a Analyist --- I don't care where my info comes from --just trade it !   



Cheers



Cheers


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## It's Snake Pliskin (26 November 2006)

Ask and you'll be told. Seek and you'll understand.


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## 3 veiws of a secret (26 November 2006)

coyotte said:
			
		

> BUT as I have stated in prior threads -- LEARN TO TRADE --- Analyists  are a dime a dozen --- I've had one very well respected Analyist on this site imply that my methods can not work -- well guess what ! ---- LHG  hitting $3.00 again from  3 out of 3 trades since lare Sept  --- thats the difference between a Trader and a Analyist --- I don't care where my info comes from --just trade it !




Funny I totally agree with you ,and I have'nt had a drink tonite. Like the old saying goes "you have to be in it, to win it".  
I have caught myself watching screens all day ,and bought nothing.....that's not trading. G'nite


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## It's Snake Pliskin (26 November 2006)

3 veiws of a secret said:
			
		

> I have caught myself watching screens all day ,and bought nothing.....that's not trading. G'nite




Being without a position open is trading at its best.

Being like a kid in a candy store is not.


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## nizar (26 November 2006)

It's Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> Being without a position open is trading at its best.
> 
> Being like a kid in a candy store is not.




So true


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## billhill (26 November 2006)

Thanks to all the replies. Actually coyotte the asx 300 was going to be my target sector as later on i want the option to trade CFDs and options so will look in to Nick Radge. This gives me heaps of information to get started and should keep me busy a while. Thanks again.

billhill


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