# Trading: Art or Science?



## ceasar73 (2 May 2012)

Art, Science or a both?

thanks

ceasar73.


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## ROE (2 May 2012)

ceasar73 said:


> Art, Science or a both?
> 
> thanks
> 
> ceasar73.




All investment techniques are part science part art because there are many unknown variables and forces outside the explanation of science.

Like greed and fear try to put science to it and see what it spit out


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## Gringotts Bank (3 May 2012)

90% art, 10% science.

*sits back and waits for Trembler and tech/a to let us know what time it is*


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## odds-on (3 May 2012)

Neither art nor science, it is 100% magic.


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## tech/a (3 May 2012)

Discretionary --- ART
Systems ---- SCIENCE.

Extreme positve results --- LUCK
Poor results ----- None of the above.


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## wayneL (3 May 2012)

Define science... A lot of what claims to be science these days isn't anything of the sort.


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## Sdajii (3 May 2012)

odds-on said:


> Neither art nor science, it is 100% magic.





Haha! Nice! 


It's obviously different for everyone. For some people, it's 100% science. Some of them fail and some thrive. I suppose for the 100% science people it depends on how good their science is.

I think for everyone it's at least a bit science.

For many people it probably fluctuates. It does for me. When I was starting it was about 85% art and 15% science, I was day trading and that's when I was by far the most profitable. Luck played a big part, especially early on in my first few weeks where I basically fluked about 10 times my initial money on extremely risky trades in extremely speculative companies I knew little about, but it can't have been pure luck since it went on for a few months. Even then I knew that as I learned more it would become more science because knowing how to do it as a science would stop me feeling comfortable doing it as art. Also, I started with all of about $2,000 and didn't mind risking it with arty methods, but once it was tens of thousands I was scared of losing too much, and once it was hundreds of thousands I really cared about not losing.

Now it's about 75% science, 25% art for me, but it can fluctuate depending on the situation.


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## skyQuake (3 May 2012)

tech/a said:


> Extreme positve results --- SKILLS
> Poor results ----- luck.




Fix'd that for you


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## Trembling Hand (3 May 2012)

I think its becoming a religion around here!


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## Trembling Hand (3 May 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> *sits back and waits for Trembler and tech/a to let us know what time it is*




Hope I didn't disappoint .


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## motorway (3 May 2012)

A Craft

That uses objective tools and methods.

At its best it has an artistic beauty

motorway


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## 5oclock (3 May 2012)

Or BULL--ART !


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## Gringotts Bank (3 May 2012)

Take a science like chemistry.  So long as you have a reasonable intellect, you do the study and you can become a proficient chemist.  Over a predictable period of time you can become very reliable in knowing what happens when you mix x with y.  You can write a formula to represent the reaction.  This formula is repeatable _not just by you_, but by every other chemist in the world.  You say to a chemist in Italy - "mix x with y and you'll get z, and here is the formula for exactly how many z molecules you will end up with".  A whole sky scraper can be built using science.  A high % of chemists end up with a paying job.

Take an art like painting.  Millions of people have studied art world wide and yet how many get to paint like Van Gogh?  There's even a phrase that describes the process of trying to make it - "the starving artist".  You can use exactly the same paints as Van Gogh, the same child-like brush strokes, you can go to Arles in the summer time, you can even cut part of your ear off, wrap it up and give it to your lover as a gift..... none of it will help.  You might know all the art terminology but can you make a living doing it?  How many do?  Very few.  Probably the same percentage as traders.

If trading was science, you'd just study the trading course (like chemistry) and away you go.  $$ in the bank.  Career trader.  It doesn't happen that way and has never happened that way.  The Turtle experiment proved that a bunch of intelligent people given exactly the same 'science' will come out the other end with vastly different results.  Of course some didn't follow the rules.  But even for those that did, they just couldn't make it work... somehow it just didn't happen.

On another thread I suggested that the missing link was attitude.  An attitude of excessive fear or greed will cause you to make errors.  An attitude of relaxed indifference allows you to see the markets as they really are (as opposed to how your particular 'model' sees it). 

None of this detracts from the brilliant science that some guys employ.  I'm not in that league, but I have seen in my own trading how it can help, even with my limited application.  eg. a simple backtest will tell you that you should be extremely wary about buying a spec stock that has risen >6% at the next open, and if you do, you'd probably not be wanting sell at the close.  Chance of failure is extremely high.  But if you can use your art, maybe you can see which few stocks will continue on upwards after their 6%+ rise.


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## Trembling Hand (3 May 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> On another thread I suggested that the missing link was attitude.  An attitude of excessive fear or greed will cause you to make errors.  An attitude of relaxed indifference allows you to see the markets as they really are (as opposed to how your particular 'model' sees it).




Gringotts you would be better served leaving the pop-pseudoscience behind and look into what actually is the science behind expertise development. Be careful, lots of myths there as well but may I suggest some reading for you,

Anything by K. Anders Ericsson


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## Gringotts Bank (3 May 2012)

There's nothing pop or pseudo about it.  Sports science has done the work there.  Level of arousal (= fear/greed) makes a huge difference in being able to perform at one's peak.  

Or just ask any top AFL coach what the most important factor is amongst players on Grand Final day.  The players that want it too much need to be settled down.  The ones who are scared witless by the big arena need to be given confidence.  Otherwise errors will happen and the opponent will get a sniff of blood. 

I'll have a look at Ericsson and get back to you.


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## tech/a (3 May 2012)

skyQuake said:


> Fix'd that for you




No
I like my version.


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## wayneL (3 May 2012)

motorway said:


> A Craft
> 
> That uses objective tools and methods.
> 
> ...




Craft works for me.


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## 5oclock (3 May 2012)

TREMBLING have you found Anders Ericsson helpful for your trading ?


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## Trembling Hand (3 May 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> There's nothing pop or pseudo about it.  Sports science has done the work there.  Level of arousal (= fear/greed) makes a huge difference in being able to perform at one's peak.




It makes no difference if you have no SKILL.

No skills = crap outcome.


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## Gringotts Bank (3 May 2012)

Right, and skill is akin to art in terms of who has it, and who doesn't.  Sure it can and should be developed to the best level possible, but everyone has a ceiling on that side of things.

If Guy McKenna (GCS coach) took his worst player and spent an entire pre-season dedicating all his time to coaching that one mediocre player, that player will still not come close to playing like Ablett Jnr.  It just wouldn't happen.  In fact it wouldn't happen if he spent 10 years doing it.

I'm saying, once your skill has reached its ceiling, it's better to focus on attitude (which is also a skill, but one that few people develop at all).


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## Trembling Hand (3 May 2012)

> I'm saying, once your skill has reached its ceiling, it's better to focus on attitude.




LOL.

Go have a look at Ericsson work. Please!!


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## Trembling Hand (3 May 2012)

5oclock said:


> TREMBLING have you found Anders Ericsson helpful for your trading ?




Its stopped me from wasting time on psychology/attitude/positive thinking.


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## motorway (3 May 2012)

A positive attitude  tends to come from being able to do things well and doing them well.

Same as Self Esteem (It is the fruit )

It is doing that is the secret key that unlocks the way to many things.

Making oneself available to feedback and being honest puts one on the growth spiral.

On trading... A Craft requires the development of JUDGEMENT ( A fruit of experience )



Motorway


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## Gringotts Bank (3 May 2012)

Trembling Hand said:


> LOL.
> 
> Go have a look at Ericsson work. Please!!




Best I can find online at the moment is some Amazon reviews of his 'Road to Excellence' book.  

Until I can get a proper look at that, perhaps you could help by summarizing how one could apply his theories to trading.  That would be helpful to everyone, I'd think.

edit: found this http://www.psy.fsu.edu/faculty/ericsson/ericsson.exp.perf.html, but I'd still like to hear your particular way of applying it to trading.


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## Trembling Hand (3 May 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Best I can find online at the moment is some Amazon reviews of his 'Road to Excellence' book.
> 
> Until I can get a proper look at that, perhaps you could help by summarizing how one could apply his theories to trading.  That would be helpful to everyone, I'd think.




Already been done,



> *What Makes an Expert? *
> 
> A research summary from K. Anders Ericsson, a leading researcher in the field, offers three surprising conclusions:
> 
> ...







> *What does this mean for traders?* Here are three conclusions of my own:
> 
> 1) The majority of traders are looking for expertise in all the wrong places. They look for *the* right trading charts, indicators, setups, or systems. They are like beginning golfers who think they'll succeed if they only get the right set of clubs. Because they hope to get "the answer", they expect success in a year or two.* The research is unequivocal: expertise develops over a period of many years. If those years are not structured properly, traders will repeat a single year's experience ten times; they won't acquire ten years of experience.*
> 
> ...


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## Joules MM1 (3 May 2012)

partial to this one

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect



> Kruger and Dunning noted earlier studies suggesting that ignorance of standards of performance is behind a great deal of incompetence. This pattern was seen in studies of skills as diverse as......






			
				Kruger and Dunning said:
			
		

> ...for a given skill, incompetent people will:
> 1 tend to overestimate their own level of skill;
> 2 fail to recognize genuine skill in others;
> 3 fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy;
> 4 recognize and acknowledge their own previous lack of skill, if they can be trained to substantially improve.


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## 5oclock (3 May 2012)

TREMBLING, thanks for that great post, Anders will be worth a read judging from your experience.I see he has wrtten a number of books ,was any particular one a standout for you? By the way I hope you are fully recovered from the knife.


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## Trembling Hand (3 May 2012)

5oclock said:


> Anders will be worth a read judging from your experience.I see he has wrtten a number of books ,was any particular one a standout for you?




Its all very heavy stuff. I would actually say a better read would be to start with this,
http://www.amazon.com/Enhancing-Trader-Performance-Strategies-Psychology/dp/0470038667

Then see if Anders stuff is of interest.



5oclock said:


> By the way I hope you are fully recovered from the knife.



Think so but will find out how the ticker is on Saturday after my first race since the surgery. 5K time trial. :horse:


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## Gringotts Bank (3 May 2012)

Trembling Hand said:


> Its all very heavy stuff. I would actually say a better read would be to start with this,
> http://www.amazon.com/Enhancing-Trader-Performance-Strategies-Psychology/dp/0470038667




A quote from that book, which is about trading psychology, and written by a psychiatrist.

"You cannot have trading consistency if you do not have emotional consistency".

Why do you rubbish what I say and then re-package it?


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## Trembling Hand (3 May 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> A quote from that book, which is about trading psychology
> 
> "You cannot have trading consistency if you do not have emotional consistency".
> 
> Why do you rubbish what I say and then re-package it?




Because you are miss-quoting the whole book. have you read it? The book is based on skill development.


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## skc (3 May 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> A quote from that book, which is about trading psychology, and written by a psychiatrist.
> 
> "You cannot have trading consistency if you do not have emotional consistency".
> 
> Why do you rubbish what I say and then re-package it?




GB, remember what is necessary vs what is sufficient. 

What you quoted said "You cannot have trading consistency if you do not have emotional consistency". It doesn't say that "With emotional consistency you can achieve trading consistency".


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## Joules MM1 (3 May 2012)

Brett Steenbarger is a practising trader, too.....he's got a very strong plan ......i think he's currently training traders at Market Tells.....

for newcomers better to read his blog to begin _before_ purchasing his books.....actually, with guidance, you could collate a serious part of your education from his site alone.....

http://traderfeed.blogspot.com.au/


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## 5oclock (3 May 2012)

TREMBLING, have not read Brett Steenbarger "Enhancing Trader Performance"yet but have read many good posts on his TradeFeeder.Blogspot . Good luck on saturday.


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## CanOz (3 May 2012)

Joules MM1 said:


> Brett Steenbarger is a practising trader, too.....he's got a very strong plan ......i think he's currently training traders at Market Tells.....




I think he's into SMB Capital as well, another Prop Firm.

CanOz


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## Joules MM1 (3 May 2012)

skc said:


> ...doesn't say that "With emotional consistency you can achieve trading consistency".




amen
+1


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## Joules MM1 (3 May 2012)

amongst todays twitter fluff came this



> The Kirk Report ‏ @TheKirkReport
> 
> $$ Trading is not difficult to learn if you have a good teacher and you are willing to put in the work (Dr. Keppler)



http://goo.gl/4gby5



			
				Dr. Keppler said:
			
		

> It is important for every trader to understand that there really is no valid correlation between the cost of a trading education and the quality of the education that is received.....In selecting your educational program, focus on identifying the teacher. You must identify the actual person that will impart the knowledge to you.


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## ceasar73 (5 May 2012)

tech/a said:


> Discretionary --- ART
> Systems ---- SCIENCE.
> 
> Extreme positve results --- LUCK
> Poor results ----- None of the above.




Extreme positve results --- LUCK....ha ha, so true.


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## Garpal Gumnut (5 May 2012)

I have read this book by Daniel Kahneman and it makes much sense.

As discussed in this thread, Art in trading may be intuitive or System 1 thinking, and Science may be System 2 or conscious slower thinking.

Daniel has previously written on heuristics and behavioural psychology, with a now deceased colleague Tversky.

Buy this book, it is a good read.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazin...ast-and-slow-by-daniel-kahneman-10272011.html

gg


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## Timmy (5 May 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I have read this book by Daniel Kahneman and it makes much sense.
> 
> ...
> Buy this book, it is a good read.
> ...



 Agree GG - highly recommended


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## Gringotts Bank (5 May 2012)

Timmy said:


> Agree GG - highly recommended




+1.  A good accompaniment to Gladwell's 'Blink'.


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## boofis (17 June 2013)

"The reason most traders fail is that they never enter a path of expertise development. It is rare to find training programs of any quality and substance at proprietary trading firms; one finds mentorship at investment banks and some hedge funds, but this is very hit or miss depending upon the commitment of the mentor and his/her skill in imparting skills and structuring a learning process. The independent trader has even fewer resources to generate and sustain an accelerated learning curve. There is much more to acquiring expertise than keeping a journal and trying to follow a simple plan." 

Just wanted to keep this going. I just reread Steenbargers Enhancing Trader Performance over the weekend and wanted others experiences regarding the things they've done that have kept them on an accelerated learning curve. 
Some of the things suggested conceptually, and not specifically about trading, are things I find pretty difficult to try and put into a practical trading context.


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## tech/a (17 June 2013)

I think it is neither Art nor Science.

Although there are many who are intent on making trading as complex as ever to extract as much as they can from those looking for the magic solution.
I think its purely a business.

Its as simple as making a profit.
but as complex as making a profit.

Over 70% of businesses fail in the first few years.
Many just supply their owners with a wage and a few
go on to create wealth beyond belief.

Trading is no different to---.
Engineering
Chemist
Grocer
Earthworker
Concretor
Printer---etc etc.

All have to make a profit to succeed.
Some are better than others.


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## Trembling Hand (17 June 2013)

tech/a said:


> Trading is no different to---.
> Engineering
> Chemist
> Grocer
> ...




But why?


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## tech/a (17 June 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> But why?




They are better businessmen.

From recognising opportuntity to
being able to know what to do with that opportunity
to Actually doing something!

They do the Business of Business better.


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## Trembling Hand (17 June 2013)

tech/a said:


> They are better businessmen.
> 
> From recognising opportuntity to
> being able to know what to do with that opportunity
> ...




Don't really agree with that. Trading is one simple skill. Business is many.


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## CanOz (17 June 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> Don't really agree with that. Trading is one simple skill. Business is many.




You can't break down your trading into more than one skill?


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## tech/a (17 June 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> Don't really agree with that. Trading is one simple skill. Business is many.




Business is one simple skill.

Complexity comes from design 
Not necessity.


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## skc (17 June 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> Don't really agree with that. Trading is one simple skill. Business is many.




Trading is the simplest business in the world. Not easy. But simple. You identify favourable reward / risk situations, punch in the calculator to see who many shares to buy/sell, then click your mouse. The only one skill you need is to be analytical - be it fundamental, system design, seeing patterns in charts or reading tealeaves. 

Any undertaking that doesn't involve dealing with people, and/or relying on them to your success, is some orders of magnitude simpler than those that do involve other people (like most businesses - suppliers, customers, regulators, bosses, employees, contractors, other stakeholders etc etc).


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## waza1960 (17 June 2013)

> Trading is the simplest business in the world. Not easy. But simple. You identify favour reward / risk situations, punch in the calculator to see who many shares to buy/sell, then click your mouse. The only one skill you need is to be analytical - be it fundamental, system design, seeing patterns in charts or reading tealeaves.
> 
> Any undertaking that doesn't involve dealing with people, and/or relying on them to your success, is some orders of magnitude simpler than those that do involve other people (like most businesses - suppliers, customers, regulators, bosses, employees, contractors, other stakeholders etc etc).




 +1


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## tech/a (18 June 2013)

tech/a said:


> Business is one simple skill.
> 
> Complexity comes from design
> Not necessity.




Find a product or service with a sustained market and provide it.
Simple?
Ask Bill Gates.


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## waza1960 (18 June 2013)

> Ask Bill Gates.




  Actually Bill Gates had timing on his side and a serious misjudgement by his competitors.
  IBM came to him in 1980 to design an operating system for their new computer IBM PC.
  He turned them away and recommended a competitor.
  After the competitor failed to come to terms with IBM they came back to Bill Gates 
 and as they say the rest is history
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gates


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## Trembling Hand (18 June 2013)

tech/a said:


> They are better businessmen.
> 
> They do the Business of Business better.



Yes but thats just stating the bleeding obvious. It doesn't in anyway address the *why* some get/are good at some things while others fail?


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## Gringotts Bank (18 June 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> Yes but thats just stating the bleeding obvious. It doesn't in anyway address the *why* some get/are good at some things while others fail?




You don't know why?


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## Trembling Hand (18 June 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> You don't know why?




Many reasons, timing, opportunity, encouragement, environment, personality, intelligence. But mostly see

deliberative practise.


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## Gringotts Bank (18 June 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> Many reasons, timing, opportunity, encouragement, environment, personality, intelligence. But mostly see
> 
> deliberative practise.




Well good.  Why not just say that!


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## Trembling Hand (18 June 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Well good.  Why not just say that!




I've been saying it for 6 years.......


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## Gringotts Bank (18 June 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> I've been saying it for 6 years.......




Good to see personality and encouragement in your list nowadays.


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## Trembling Hand (18 June 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Good to see personality and encouragement in your list nowadays.




LOL always was. Before you think you have had any influence on my thinking...... sorry nope.


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## tech/a (18 June 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> Yes but thats just stating the bleeding obvious. It doesn't in anyway address the *why* some get/are good at some things while others fail?




Hmmm dont know about that either.
Those that succeed are often scrutinized by those who fail
citing this and that. Yet those who succeed often at the same or
similar "business" appear to have been blessed with timing, opportunity, encouragement, environment, personality, intelligence,when they are no better than those who have failed.

I think it boils down to and as far back as Childhood/Parents/Roll Models.
The foundation often that we dont or cant see.
Without a solid foundation the---timing, opportunity, encouragement, environment, personality, intelligence--- wont have a chance.


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## Trembling Hand (18 June 2013)

tech/a said:


> I think it boils down to and as far back as Childhood/Parents/Roll Models.
> The foundation often that we dont or cant see.




Plenty of people with horrendous foundations have made it big time. Opera, Rockefeller, Abraham Lincoln, Larry Ellison, Sean Combs, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and on and on...

Some of the softest underachievers I know have had great, hell near on perfect, up bringing.


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## baby_swallow (18 June 2013)

For me it's both..although its more of an Art especially if you are a short term trader...
Trading everyday is like a game of tennis - you need know the art on how to out do your opponent -make him commit errors for you to score.  
Trading is also like going into a battlefield. You are pitting yourself against super traders, bots, (and the likes of TH). If you're lucky, you make a buck, if not, you're a carcass. Having a bit of knowledge about the "art of war"
may help - getting into the minds of your "enemies".


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## Trembling Hand (18 June 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> Plenty of people with horrendous foundations have made it big time.




To add to that plenty of people with somewhat average intelligence have made it big too. Especially in acting, sport, music, performance fields. Its been shown that grand master chess players have rather average intelligence. You'd think thats the same for traders too


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## WilkensOne (18 June 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> To add to that plenty of people with somewhat average intelligence have made it big too. Especially in acting, sport, music, performance fields. Its been shown that grand master chess players have rather average intelligence. You'd think thats the same for traders too




A book on trading I read said exactly that, people of 'average' intelligence often perform better as they can develop a strategy and if it works stick with it. Whereas those of higher intelligence apparently over analyse and find it too difficult sticking to a strategy without trying to constantly make it better.. thus not sticking to their proven strategy.  I have no idea if it is true, but it was an interesting thought..


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## tech/a (18 June 2013)

Unfortunately an exception rather than a rule.
My experience has been that those in the less fortunate grouping of society tend to remain there.
Many now days collect the dole and play computer games.
Those that do get a job I have found by far have the mentality of Us V Them.
The have's wouldnt be there if it wasnt for the have nots.

Sure Average people can lead above average lives both in business and trading
but with a stronger leadership and examples set in child hood---I have found---tend to accept challenges more readily and excel in persistence and planning.

Im also speaking from my own experiences as a Son,Parent/Employer.

My father a Butcher who wasnt happy with one shop---had 7
My Son whos development I saw sky rocket around those leaders at Adelaide Uni and his friends. Now a Doctor of Physics.
Some of the Drop Kicks I have come through our place who last a day and are on 6 mths Work cover.---Bad back you know!
Yet 3 guys with me over 12 yrs who are without education but are specialists in their field. The sort of guys youd want in the trenches next to you! They always have a place in mine.

To me who started as a store boy
To my first business as a Lawn Man.
To today. Not bad for a guy with Leaving Honors which I had to repeat!
Buy I am an exception as I still know many I went to school with. Some sad sad cases and the odd WOW!

I can only speak from my experience and sure others will have experienced different things.


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## pavilion103 (18 June 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> To add to that plenty of people with somewhat average intelligence have made it big too. Especially in acting, sport, music, performance fields. Its been shown that grand master chess players have rather average intelligence. You'd think thats the same for traders too




Agree with this 100%.

It's all about specialized knowledge and a focused commitment. Sure an intelligent person may get there quicker but someone with only average intelligence can put in the work to make up for it.

You don't need to know everything, or know it quickly. You just need to know what you need to know.


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## pavilion103 (18 June 2013)

pavilion103 said:


> Agree with this 100%.
> 
> It's all about specialized knowledge and a focused commitment. Sure an intelligent person may get there quicker but someone with only average intelligence can put in the work to make up for it.
> 
> You don't need to know everything, or know it quickly. You just need to know what you need to know.




Of course this assumes that someone has the mindset where they can identify a successful path and stick at it.

Where does that mindset come from -- I don't know. I don't particularly care really.


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## Trembling Hand (18 June 2013)

Not sure what your point is there Tech. You are putting up counter arguments then counter arguments to your counter arguments.  Clearly a majority of disadvantaged stay disadvantaged - thats why its called disadvantaged but,

An exception to the rule is proof that a hypothesis is incorrect. So your argument, at one point, being that it is up bringing is shot down by that fact that people with crappy up bringing can still achieve above average success. 

Something else at play - or at least more at play than ingredient A plus ingredient B = cake. 


Its more like a 10- 15 ingredient cake all mixed up with the possibility of even leaving out some ingredients while still coming up with a winning cake. Though I strongly believe that there are some ingredients that cannot be left out. For this there is empirical evidence. 

Things that can be left out would be an interesting list......

Anyone?


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## 5oclock (18 June 2013)

TH ,maybe its the "fight in the dog" not the "dog in the fight", which is sort of what you are saying.


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## tech/a (18 June 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> Not sure what your point is there Tech. You are putting up counter arguments then counter arguments to your counter arguments.  Clearly a majority of disadvantaged stay disadvantaged - thats why its called disadvantaged but,
> 
> An exception to the rule is proof that a hypothesis is incorrect. So your argument, at one point, being that it is up bringing is shot down by that fact that people with crappy up bringing can still achieve above average success.




My experience is that a strong leadership at a young age will be a great help regardless of a persons standing but in particular those "disadvantaged" Dont know that the premise is shot down.




> Something else at play - or at least more at play than ingredient A plus ingredient B = cake.
> 
> 
> Its more like a 10- 15 ingredient cake all mixed up with the possibility of even leaving out some ingredients while still coming up with a winning cake. Though I strongly believe that there are some ingredients that cannot be left out. For this there is empirical evidence.
> ...


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## havaiana (20 June 2013)

Some 'deliberate practice' type tips:


http://sivers.org/book/LittleBookOfTalent

Two of my favourites:

TIP #15:
 BREAK EVERY MOVE DOWN INTO CHUNKS

1) What is the smallest single element of this skill that I can master?
 2) What other chunks link to that chunk?
 Practice one chunk by itself until you’ve mastered it - then connect more chunks, one by one,
 See the whole thing. Break it down to its simplest elements. Put it back together. Repeat.


#######
 TIP #16:
 EACH DAY, TRY TO BUILD ONE PERFECT CHUNK

Perfect - not just improve, not just “work on,” but get 100 percent consistently correct.


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## ThingyMajiggy (20 June 2013)

WilkensOne said:


> Whereas those of higher intelligence apparently over analyse.




I'm a genius in that case!!


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## Trembling Hand (20 June 2013)

havaiana said:


> Some 'deliberate practice' type tips:
> 
> 
> http://sivers.org/book/LittleBookOfTalent
> ...




think this one is more important for trading,



> TIP #9:
> TO BUILD SOFT SKILLS, PLAY LIKE A SKATEBOARDER
> 
> Soft skills are the result of super-fast brain software recognizing patterns and responding in just the right way.
> ...




I like these too,


> TIP #17:
> EMBRACE STRUGGLE
> 
> The struggle and frustration you feel at the edges of your abilities - that uncomfortable burn of “almost, almost” - is the sensation of constructing new neural connections,






> TIP #46:
> DON’T WASTE TIME TRYING TO BREAK BAD HABITS - INSTEAD, BUILD NEW ONES
> 
> Ignore the bad habit and put your energy toward building a new habit that will override the old one.


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