# Your thoughts?



## coffee_snob (25 March 2010)

Hi all

I am new to the share marketed (so new that I have not yet bought anything!).

I am starting out very small with $1500/$2000 available to put into some shares. I am on a disability pension, which is why I have so little to play with, but I'm in my final year of a social work degree so hopefully in the not to distant future all this will change.

So I am after low risk, obviously, and I guess this means blue chip. My idea is to sink the entire $2000 into one company or else whats the point? This is my best option isn't it? And can you guys give some suggestions on what you would do if you were in my situation? What companies would you look into?

I wish I had a money tree but I don't, so I am 'trying' to be sensible about this. BLue chip is good!


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## Trembling Hand (25 March 2010)

coffee_snob said:


> I wish I had a money tree but I don't, so I am 'trying' to be sensible about this. BLue chip is good!




You haven't enough in my not advice 'advice' to be buying anything.

For many reasons some being but not limited to,

Brokerage cost will kill you,
Too small an amount to spread the risk between companies,
Needing to hit a home run to make it worth your while,
Unable to take the smallest of loses (see the above 3 points)
Playing with what is clearly small yet very valuable funds,
Misconception that a so called "blue chip" is low risk.

And on and on.

Relax and save. That would be the best option, times 1000, in my opinion.


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## tech/a (25 March 2010)

What is it you expect to do with your $2,000?
What is the motivation to place it in the market.

I'm guessing its to turn it into 50K and beyond.

Your actually highly likely to turn it into 1K or less.
Stick it in a bank account!
Start a demo account and trade as you thought you would.
Sit back and be happy that your hard earned is still in tact!


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## coffee_snob (25 March 2010)

Hi and thanks for your reply.

I am looking at long term investment. So maybe in excess of 3 years. I am not really after cash in my pocket straight away as I am sure I will have the opportunity during employment next year. 

What is the lowest amount you would invest? 

I was thinking of investing in  a financial institution (ANZ perhaps).

Also I am using Westpac's trading service so fees are at $24 per trade


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## sammy84 (25 March 2010)

$2k really is not enough. Min starting would be $10k IMO, but that is still no where near ideal.

I guess you could park the $2k in some bank shares and reinvest the dividends. Just don't expect a lot.


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## awg (25 March 2010)

If you are adamant about having your funds in the share market, you may wish to consider STW, which is an exact proxy for the top 200 Oz companies.

Otherwise you could consider BHP, as it is by far the largest Australian company.

You must bear in mind that your capital could fall in value.

I agree with previous opinions that 2k is a bit too small, but hey everyone has to start somewhere

please do not consider the above to be advice, it is not permitted to give unlicenced financial advice on forums, only opinions


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## Timmy (25 March 2010)

Pre-congratulations on getting your degree, well done.  

Got a HECS debt?  If so, the $2k might be best put to work reducing that.  Just my


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## dutchie (25 March 2010)

Hi Coffee Snob

What brand of coffee do you drink ?

I can only agree with the previous posters and advise you to put the money in the bank.

The odds are heavily against you as a novice and with such a small amount of capital.

Buy a good book or two on trading (search this forum).

Read this forum (and others) to educate yourself whilst you build up your capital (and knowledge) once you have a job.

Congrats on getting a degree.

Cheers

dutchie

PS      I know how keen you might be to get into the market but be patient.


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## newbie trader (25 March 2010)

Trembling Hand said:


> You haven't enough in my not advice 'advice' to be buying anything.
> 
> For many reasons some being but not limited to,
> 
> ...




Agreed. If you decide to trade with commsec for instance in and out youll need to make 2% to break even. I disagree with the 10k starting, I started out recently with 5k and that is fine (all in one company as im only looking to make more than I would in bank interest per year). But before you put anything into the market I would suggested reading and demo trading whether it be playing those stock market games or paper trading. I read and paper traded for 3-4 years before I decided I was ready to take the plunge. 

(p.s congrats on finishing your degree (almost) ive still got another 4 years  and then a 50-60k debt )
N.T


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## Trembling Hand (25 March 2010)

newbie trader said:


> I disagree with the 10k starting, I started out recently with 5k and that is fine (*all in one company *as im only looking to make more than I would in bank interest per year).




They never learn do they? blind leading the blind


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## newbie trader (25 March 2010)

Trembling Hand said:


> They never learn do they? blind leading the blind




Hahaha shh! Well I started in the stock market about 50 days ago and im up about 6% profit thus far which is more than i'd make in a year from a bank. If I were to split 5k up, how many different stocks would I need to diversify seeing as though 5 stocks would equate to 4% in and out per trade, so i'd need to make back 20% all up to break even? I think my goals (in relation to 'making money' from the stock market) at this stage in my life are different to most on this forum. I'm looking for experience and hopefully a small amount of profit, rather than trying to turn 5k into 50k.

N.T


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## Trembling Hand (25 March 2010)

newbie trader said:


> Well I started in the stock market about 50 days ago and im up about 6% profit thus far which is more than i'd make in a year from a bank.



 Great.


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## newbie trader (25 March 2010)

Trembling Hand said:


> Great.




That wasn't the point of what I said, but ok.

N.T


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## wayneL (25 March 2010)

awg said:


> If you are adamant about having your funds in the share market, you may wish to consider STW, which is an exact proxy for the top 200 Oz companies.
> 
> Otherwise you could consider BHP, as it is by far the largest Australian company.
> 
> ...




Yes.

$2k is too small to "trade". But agree with awg here... if wanting to be in the market, STW, BHP or one of the banks as a buy and hold proposition for now.

...and stress once again that you might not get a positive return.


Also ditto the bit in red.


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## Space Invader101 (25 March 2010)

If you're with Westpac and use online banking you may want to consider opening a Maxi-Saver Account as an alternative.  It's an account linked to your bank account.  Interest is calculated monthly and unlike a term deposit you can transfer money from it into you bank account at any time.

If you decide to invest in a stock, understand that even with blue chips you can lose money.  You would also pay $24 to sell so your total value of a stock would need to rise $48 just to break even.

I wish I could recomend stocks because I know which one I'd buy if I only had $2000, but that would be giving advice.  Although a Maxi-Saver could be considered advice, I don't financially benifit from it nor does it envolve risk of loss.

(I don't work for Westpac or have shares in it.  Just a customer)


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## wayneL (25 March 2010)

Space Invader101 said:


> I wish I could recomend stocks because I know which one I'd buy if I only had $2000, but that would be giving advice.  Although a Maxi-Saver could be considered advice, I don't financially benifit from it nor does it envolve risk of loss.




You can give an opinion without giving advice; it's all in the wording.

eg "You should by DOG" is giving advice.

"In my opinion, DOG is a good buy right now because of _x_ reason, but DYOR" is giving your opinion, not advice.


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## brty (25 March 2010)

I'm going to go against the "non advice" given here, but only because of the amount. In a couple of years the $2k will feel like chickenfeed, compared to what a student has. The OP should be earning that every fortnight at least from employment.

The only real way to learn to trade, is by time spent in the market. My thoughts are that paper trading is almost useless as you never get the psychological effect of really trading, and with only $2k the OP does not have that much to lose. 

If the OP spent 2/3 of the money on a stock, possibly something in the bottom third of the asx300, then started to buy some books to get educated on trading. I don't think any book will give the 'secret' but they are a start in the process of learning, while at the same time the OP would have skin in the game, so what he/she reads will have real meaning.

If you can't afford to lose the $2k, then why the hell ask the question in the first place??

WayneL, speaking of DOGs...



> DOG  ProShares Short Dow 30 (NYSE ARCA




brty


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## Julia (25 March 2010)

Congratulations on saving anything at all while on a Disability Pension, and on being prepared to study.  

Once you're working and earning a decent salary, you'll then be in a reasonable position to enter the market with less risk.

Just think about how you'd feel if your $2000 became $1000 which is quite possible, even in a blue chip.

Meantime, you can get 7% on a term deposit at CBA, ANZ, BOQ, and probably others.  With just your DSP income you won't be paying any tax on the interest.

Best of luck and good on you for not just being prepared to sit on a DSP for the rest of your life.


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## coffee_snob (25 March 2010)

Julia said:


> Congratulations on saving anything at all while on a Disability Pension, and on being prepared to study.
> 
> Once you're working and earning a decent salary, you'll then be in a reasonable position to enter the market with less risk.
> 
> ...





Thanks to everyone for your replies. In particular Julia. I am legally blind so it has taken me a LONG time to get through my studies (seven yrs) and its been a very frustrating road. I don't agree that sitting on a pension is a good idea unless you have absolutely no ability to work. In saying this though, its very hard to find work if you have a disability and have no experience or qualification so some people have no choice in the matter (which is why i have not been able to gain part time employment while I study).

I will save up some more dosh and go from there.  I do have a bit of money coming my way from a term deposit I set up some time ago so this will help. In the meantime I will keep a watch on the market and my potential future shares. Just one question - in terms of banks, out of the big four - is there any one that performs 'better' than the others? Is there a particular one I should keep an eye on? And yes, BHP looks great.

This forum is a great resource so thank you all for your support. I particularly enjoy the thread about your top three holdings and why.


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## drsmith (25 March 2010)

coffee_snob said:


> So I am after low risk, obviously, and I guess this means blue chip. My idea is to sink the entire $2000 into one company or else whats the point? This is my best option isn't it?



A listed managed fund such as Milton, Argo, Australian Foundation Investment Fund (just to name a few) will give you an investment in a diversified portfolio of shares thereby eliminating the risk of investing all your capital into one or two companies.

Over time you can also research the larger holdings in their portfolio's to see specifically what you prefer as your capital grows.

There are also index funds which invest equal weightings within the top 50, top 200 etc.

As also noted above if you have debt (such as HECS) your best return may be to pay off that debt depending on its interest rate (after tax).

Good rates too can be found with online savers. Close to 6% pa can be achieved in the current market.


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## brty (25 March 2010)

> Just one question - in terms of banks, out of the big four - is there any one that performs 'better' than the others? Is there a particular one I should keep an eye on? And yes, BHP looks great.




Good grief!! 

brty


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## tech/a (25 March 2010)

> I am legally blind




*Sorry to hear that.*


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## trainspotter (25 March 2010)

Trembling Hand said:


> They never learn do they? blind leading the blind




I have tears streaming down my face on this one !  Followed up by "I am legally blind etc" ROFLMFAO and then the coup de grÃ¢ce with the BOLD capital response from tech/a ....... F*cken priceless ..... you can't even write a comedy sketch this good !! Other than the dead parrot skit. PMSL


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## ThingyMajiggy (25 March 2010)

Just occurred to me.....can someone be _illegally_ blind?


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## Whiskers (25 March 2010)

coffee_snob said:


> Thanks to everyone for your replies. In particular Julia. *I am legally blind so it has taken me a LONG time to get through my studies* (seven yrs) and its been a very frustrating road. I don't agree that sitting on a pension is a good idea unless you have absolutely no ability to work. In saying this though, its very hard to find work if you have a disability and have no experience or qualification so some people have no choice in the matter (which is why i have not been able to gain part time employment while I study).
> 
> I will save up some more dosh and go from there.  I do have a bit of money coming my way from a term deposit I set up some time ago so this will help. *In the meantime I will keep a watch on the market and my potential future shares.* Just one question - in terms of banks, out of the big four - is there any one that performs 'better' than the others? Is there a particular one I should keep an eye on? And yes, BHP looks great.
> 
> This forum is a great resource so thank you all for your support. I particularly enjoy the thread about your top three holdings and why.




Hi coffee_snob, I can relate to your dissability, having lost one eye and periodically had problems with the other and a relative with albinism who is legally blind, so I'd keep aware of the dissadvantages and spend some time studying some Fundamental and Technical Analysis before entering the market and decide your stratergy ie whether to invest, or trade and what tools you need to do that effectively.

By way of example, the market has been in uptrend for some time, but some of us are expecting a correction anytime now. Some believe we have come off recent highs and are in the process of going much lower. I personally think it will be a smaller correction of a continuing rising market.

Since you appear to be wanting to invest long, you need to pick you entry well, otherwise for example, if you enter now and the market corrects even only a minor correction you could face substantial losses as opposed to waiting a few weeks or months and coming to an informed judgement with some fundamental and or technical skills and a considered stratergy.


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## drsmith (25 March 2010)

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Just occurred to me.....can someone be _illegally_ blind?



Yes.

Driving when drunk.


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## Taltan (25 March 2010)

I'd invest the 2k. If you know very little you would be stupid to start with $100k. As others have said if you have any debts like HECS pay that first otherwise use the 2k to learn about the ASX. Take a pick of 5 blue chips compare them and invest in one. In 3 years the 2k will be somewhere in the 1-3.5k vicinity but more importanly you will learn why. e.g Pick NAB, ANZ, CBA, BHP, WOW & TLS. Compare and choose one.

The education received from it being your own money will be worth more than a semester at uni - and probably chepaer too. 

Ditto the others, this is not financial advise as I am not licensed to provide financial advice.


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## nunthewiser (25 March 2010)

tech/a said:


> *Sorry to hear that.*






HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH 

now that was funny .

To the OP ........is this cash afforded to be lost or shrunk ? or is it money  you are trying to build and is part of a grand plan ?


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## trainspotter (25 March 2010)

2k is 2k ..... gotta start somewhere I spose. I'm with Julia on this one. Go and get a nice 7% per annum with a bank. At least you know the capital will remain after a period of time.


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## coffee_snob (25 March 2010)

nunthewiser said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
> 
> now that was funny .
> 
> To the OP ........is this cash afforded to be lost or shrunk ? or is it money  you are trying to build and is part of a grand plan ?




Yes I can afford to lose it - this is spare many set aside from my savings.


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## coffee_snob (25 March 2010)

trainspotter said:


> 2k is 2k ..... gotta start somewhere I spose. I'm with Julia on this one. Go and get a nice 7% per annum with a bank. At least you know the capital will remain after a period of time.




I believe that you can only get a 7% return on large sums of money that are put away for large amounts of time. I'd want a place that has an actual branch in my area so not ING or citibank or anything like that. From what I have found most places don't offer such a high interest rate for only 2 grand


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## newbie trader (25 March 2010)

Someone mentioned managed funds before...On Commsec I see they offer 'share packs' I have never considered it but out of curisotiy, any good?

N.T


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## nunthewiser (25 March 2010)

coffee_snob said:


> Yes I can afford to lose it - this is spare many set aside from my savings.




Well then ........... Nothing ventured ......Nothing gained ............ the down side is ...Its gunna cost you 2k or less to get a lesson on the markeet . IF you are willing to learn things 2k will be an invaluable lesson for a later date when one maybe higher prepared on a financial basis.

whatsa the worse that can happen ? .lose ya 2k on a lesson or perhaps get lucky and catch a ride to the stars and build your capital base.

PERSONALLY on 2k i would be looking towards the smaller cap end of the market or LISTED options with LONG expiry dates ..... 

Plenty out there that got a future .plenty out there that will rob you in the blink of an eye.

i DO suggest a good long read up on various threads here that deal with longer term position trading and ESPEECIALLY read up on some penny dreadful threads and see how they operate ( pump and dumps..spikes ....strategys major losses , being stck in a stock etc etc ).

ME PERSONALLY with 2k would be of the mind of only holding the one stock as the % gains on smaller amounts will have to be too great  to be viable

10% of 2 k is STILL 200 bucks folks ......plenny 10% movers and shakers if ones willing to pick trades carefully 


anyhow your cash your desicion how to spend it ..


Just a different view if one is not too fussed on the 2k to begin there foray into the markets.


Its just a  different rule book .......... different rule book for  trading 20 million too.........


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## coffee_snob (25 March 2010)

newbie trader said:


> Someone mentioned managed funds before...On Commsec I see they offer 'share packs' I have never considered it but out of curisotiy, any good?
> 
> N.T




I'd be interested to know people's experiences with this too. Have been reading about them. I believe the minimum investment is $4000 so I'd need to double my money before I considered it. But I am interested to know what people think of these packs. They are 'apparently' well researched etc.

Is comsec the only place that offers them?


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## trainspotter (25 March 2010)

What makes you think you are going to do better with shares? Most banks require 5k for term deposits. I think Westpac are offering 6% for 3 years for this amount. Esanda is offering 5.9% for 12 months for blocks of monies from 1k to 100k ....... that's not bad ! Or you could take the lot to the dishlickers one night and have a really red hot go at beating the bookies. And you get to have a bit of fun at the same time !


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## nunthewiser (25 March 2010)

P.s 


this is not meant to be offensive or taking the piis but how are you reading all this anyways ?


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## coffee_snob (25 March 2010)

nunthewiser said:


> anyhow your cash your desicion how to spend it ..
> .




Nunthewiser

Thanks for your advice. I am already reading the threads here  people's personal experiences are really valuable in learning but the only way I will really learn is by trying my hand at it all too. Staring small and losing small is IMO better than starting big and losing it all. That's my thought anyhow. And as someone said earlier we all have to start somewhere.

And yes, all my dosh will be going into one company. I don't believe I'd do much good spreading the cash between a few companies! its not like I have 20k to spend here - otherwise i'd consider it!


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## coffee_snob (25 March 2010)

nunthewiser said:


> P.s
> 
> 
> this is not meant to be offensive or taking the piis but how are you reading all this anyways ?




I don't mind questions at all, and I did not think you were trying to offend me so don't worry. I am not totally blind, I have some functional vision but not enough to drive etc etc. Also I use a screen magnifyer (which blows the font up on the screen magnificently) as well as sometimes a screen reader, which reads everything on the screen out loud. 

SO life isn't too bad - there are ways and means. Although this technology costs a bomb which is why i have no money to invest


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## newbie trader (25 March 2010)

What uni are you at? (dont have to answer if you dont want, dont want to be intrusive)

N.T


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## nunthewiser (25 March 2010)

No worries ... Good luck in the markets.


Its either gunna smack you into realising it aint all white picket fences no matter what you read..... Or its gunna let you catch the ride to bigger and better strategys and profits.

personally guessing the first scenario but ya never know you might just get lucky enough to grow into more larger positions which WILL need to be managed correctly to keep them


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## brty (25 March 2010)

I don't wish to sound harsh here, but it will come across that way, the truth cannot be helped...

The market does does not give too hoots if you are half-blind, blind or a quadraplegic. It will do what it does.

 Because of this and the following, I will point you back to my original post...



> the only way I will really learn is by trying my hand at it all too. Staring small and losing small is IMO better than starting big and losing it all. That's my thought anyhow. And as someone said earlier we all have to start somewhere.




The worst thing that can happen early is probably the following from Nun....



> you might just get lucky enough to grow into more larger position




I have known people who this happens too. They then think they are market geniuses and tend to over trade.... until they blow up, and blow up big.

In asking for opinions you are showing a classic newbee tendancy, "others must know more". Being experienced in markets means nothing of the kind. Your guess as to a good stock to invest in is probably as good as anyones, the real test comes in how you respond to changes in price over time.
That is where learning the ropes really comes in. Only being involved will help here, and persistence to learn how to control your emotions and outside influences on your actions.

Eventually you will learn a style of investing/trading that suits your personality, that you are comfortable with. It may take 6 months, it may take 10 years, but persistence is what counts.

A question (or two) for those who have suggested paper trading or earning interest in a bank account. How much is enough for a beginner to start with?? If early lessons are expensive, then why not start out cheap?? 

brty


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## drsmith (25 March 2010)

coffee_snob said:


> And yes, all my dosh will be going into one company. I don't believe I'd do much good spreading the cash between a few companies! its not like I have 20k to spend here - otherwise i'd consider it!



That then ups the risk which is inconsistent with what you outlined in the first post.


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## enigmatic (25 March 2010)

I will not at all call myself an expert, however from my experience and please note its is only my experience based on events that i was fortunate or unfortunate to have 

i started off with 2k and i would say had i stuck with the 2k i think i would of watched my investment go from $2k to $243 and back to about $500 over a 3year period. fortunately i was able to through more money at my learning experience and now am happy with the 6.5% growth.. which mind you I might of been able to manage in the bank.

as I personally believe 2k is not enough to invest and to learn.
learning generally requires some buying and selling i believe. learning how to manage your funds protecting yourself from yourself 

I think spending about a year learning while your hard earned money builds 5-7% interest and you paper trade getting some experience in the long term will do you well. It is very easy to think your better then you are get it right 5times in a row and all it takes is that 6th time were you know your right but the share price falls 90% but you were right


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## jonojpsg (25 March 2010)

Couple of points:  Suggestions that the banks are good value are a little stretched IMO at least from what I read (although that may well be crap).

The exposure of WBC and CBA of over 50% of their loan books to residential real estate means that if/when we get a reasonable house price correction (which we haven't had and the graph still looks extremely bubble-like) they are obviously going to be hit hard.  Given that our banks are also reliant on overseas borrowing to fund their loan books, it also means that they will, ala WBC, be putting up rates over the next 3-4 years above what the RBA decide to do.  That may well mean some significant increases in mortgage defaults over that period, a possible reason for the initial proposition of a price correction.

Also, IMO you are better off getting into the game now while volatility is higher, although it has come off a bit, as this will test your resolve and help you learn about the psychology of changing prices (read dropping prices), as has already been mentioned.

BTW how big did techs comment look through the maginifier


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## coffee_snob (25 March 2010)

Hehe pretty big 

and yes I realize the market does not care whether I can see or not, I was simply explaining my situation so you guys (mainly Julia) could understand my perspective/situation. I'm a pretty open person so please excuse me if I give info that's irrelivant


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## newbie trader (25 March 2010)

Learn learn learn for at least 6 months just so you get some of the basics because the market will be there whenever you decide to invest, but if you feel youre ready, at the end of the day we all learn in different ways.

N.T


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## Julia (25 March 2010)

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Just occurred to me.....can someone be _illegally_ blind?






coffee_snob said:


> I believe that you can only get a 7% return on large sums of money that are put away for large amounts of time. I'd want a place that has an actual branch in my area so not ING or citibank or anything like that. From what I have found most places don't offer such a high interest rate for only 2 grand



That's probably right:  Most likely $5000 minimum.  Sorry for the misdirection.



coffee_snob said:


> I'd be interested to know people's experiences with this too. Have been reading about them. I believe the minimum investment is $4000 so I'd need to double my money before I considered it. But I am interested to know what people think of these packs. They are 'apparently' well researched etc.
> 
> Is comsec the only place that offers them?



No, Comsec is not the only place to access these.  But bear in mind you are going to be paying fees for this management which often turns out to be less expert than you might anticipate.  Better, imo, to stick with a direct share.



brty said:


> I don't wish to sound harsh here, but it will come across that way, the truth cannot be helped...
> 
> The market does does not give too hoots if you are half-blind, blind or a quadraplegic. It will do what it does.




The OP has not suggested at any stage that he/she expects any privileges because of a disability.  The explanation of being legally blind was obviously offered in response to my earlier congratulations for having had the determination and stamina to complete a degree plus save $2000 whilst on the meagre income of a Disability Pension.


> In asking for opinions you are showing a classic newbee tendancy, "others must know more". Being experienced in markets means nothing of the kind. Your guess as to a good stock to invest in is probably as good as anyones,




The OP has made clear he/she is new to the market, so naturally any questions are going to reflect that.  Brty, it's not like you to be so critical of what is perfectly reasonable under the circumstances.
And I rather disagree about the OP having the same capacity as an experienced investor to choose a stock.  I certainly made many mistakes in stock selection in the early days compared to now.


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## Julia (25 March 2010)

brty said:


> Good grief!!
> 
> brty



How is that comment helpful to the OP?
He/she has clearly stated that he/she's inexperienced.




tech/a said:


> *Sorry to hear that.*






trainspotter said:


> I have tears streaming down my face on this one !  Followed up by "I am legally blind etc" ROFLMFAO and then the coup de grÃ¢ce with the BOLD capital response from tech/a ....... F*cken priceless ..... you can't even write a comedy sketch this good !! Other than the dead parrot skit. PMSL






ThingyMajiggy said:


> Just occurred to me.....can someone be _illegally_ blind?



Good Lord, fellas, I can't believe how unnecessarily insensitive you are.
Consider walking a day in another's shoes, perhaps.

The OP is, imo, to be further congratulated for not responding to this rubbish.
Why can't you just try to be genuinely helpful instead of smart?


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## ThingyMajiggy (25 March 2010)

Julia said:


> Good Lord, fellas, I can't believe how unnecessarily insensitive you are.
> Consider walking a day in another's shoes, perhaps.
> 
> The OP is, imo, to be further congratulated for not responding to this rubbish.
> Why can't you just try to be genuinely helpful instead of smart?




Hey, what did I do? 

I was just asking a genuine question! Seems to be a weird classification, someone being "legally" blind, hence wondering if someone can be illegally blind, not having a go at, or belittling the OP at all, not sure how you could interpret it  as offensive, maybe find a new hobby?


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## coffee_snob (25 March 2010)

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Hey, what did I do?
> 
> I was just asking a genuine question! Seems to be a weird classification, someone being "legally" blind, hence wondering if someone can be illegally blind, not having a go at, or belittling the OP at all, not sure how you could interpret it  as offensive, maybe find a new hobby?




There is totally blind, and there is legally blind. If you are legally blind it does not mean that you are totally blind. You can still be classified as being blind if you have some sight, but it has to be below a certain level.


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## brty (25 March 2010)

Julia,

If I sounded too harsh, I apologise. The original "good grief" comment was in regard to lots of er... 'non advise' that was rejected in a call to "what stock is good" type of comment/question, as if all the previous posts were irrelevant.



> The explanation of being legally blind was obviously offered in response to my earlier congratulations for having had the determination and stamina to complete a degree plus save $2000 whilst on the meagre income of a Disability Pension.




In terms of trading/investment the above is completely irrelevant. I have my own 'disabilities' but never bother to refer to them as they have no meaning in terms of money. The market is the market and a person is a person, end of story. If they do not have the ability to read properly, they are behind the eightball. If they do not have the ability to comprehend they are behind the eightball, if they are too arrogent they are behind the eightball. No ifs, buts or maybees.



> I rather disagree about the OP having the same capacity as an experienced investor to choose a stock. I certainly made many mistakes in stock selection in the early days compared to now.




Exactly my point about starting with the $2k and investing in pretty much anything. Yes I choose stocks better now (well I think I do ) but we all have to learn. Only having skin in the game helps us really learn, especially in regard to our own reactions to market action. 



> Why can't you just try to be genuinely helpful instead of smart?




 I thought my original post in this thread was exactly that, yet it was completely ignored, as were many other thoughtful suggestions. The OP has a disability in terms of the market, this disability is in seeking the 'answer'/'secret' from other posters, it has nothing to do with sight.

brty


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## GumbyLearner (25 March 2010)

Yet another destructive thread IMO.

Why don't you look at point 2 that I raised in the *

Why is ASF the best place to blog?* thread

My final contribution to this thread. Goodnight!


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## wecanallinvest (25 March 2010)

IMHO a stock like Telstra would be a good buy at current levels. It pays a great dividend of around 9% which is better than any bank and is a good defensive play if the market corrects.


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## WaveSurfer (26 March 2010)

WOW coffee_snob. I envy you. I do not know what I'd do without my peepers when studying. Congratulations on keeping yourself focused on your end goals.

With that sort of determination, you should do very well in the markets once you get it down.

It's hard to balance starting out. Should I go in blind (sorry no pun intended there)? Or should I wait, save more and possibly burn a lot more dough when I do take the plunge?

I would say put your money in a netSaver for now as term deposits generally ask for a minimum of $5000. I know others offer less, but the rates are probably just as good in a netSaver account. Your money is also not locked in that way.

Definitely paper trade first though. At least to get some sort of feel for it. If you can treat paper trading as a serious game, you'll find playing the real thing much easier.

Google finance has a portfolio that you can use

http://www.google.com/finance/portfolio

I found it hard to manage my paper trades when most brokers only offer 14-30 day demo accounts. Google finance helps a lot in that respect.

If you really have an urge to get your hands dirty, perhaps consider trading forex with a very small amount. OANDA would be a good start. Throw in $100, trade 100 units at a time (about 1 cent per pip) and get the ball rolling. They have decent spreads as well. I see that as a much cheaper option to learn the hard way. At least to get the feel of a "market" anyway.

Don't worry too much about the "emotional" side of trading at this stage. I find this to be an ongoing battle. Once you get more competent, you invest more and they (the same emotions) start all over again  That's just me though, we're all different.


Speaking of a managed portfolio, has anyone seen this from ANZ?

http://www.anz.com/personal/investments-advice/products-services/online-investment-account/



> You can get started with only $1,000
> Make contributions whenever you like from as little as $100
> Your money is not locked away - access your funds easily




Might be worth looking into further coffee.

I wish you all the best on your journey. Judging by your past determination, you will do quite well.


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## trainspotter (26 March 2010)

trainspotter said:


> What makes you think you are going to do better with shares? Most banks require 5k for term deposits. I think Westpac are offering 6% for 3 years for this amount. *Esanda is offering 5.9% for 12 months for blocks of monies from 1k to 100k ....... that's not bad ! *Or you could take the lot to the dishlickers one night and have a really red hot go at beating the bookies. And you get to have a bit of fun at the same time !




I apologise for offering this offending statement unreservedly. By the way Julia, I was laughing at the serendipity of the statements laid bare on this thread. It started with the "blind leading the blind" and the poster HAD NO IDEA that coffee_snob was legally blind. Then tech/a did the CAPITALISATION thing ... thinking he was helping. If I found this funny due to the posters thinking they were helping coffe_snob then I will check my funny bone at the door in future.


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## awg (26 March 2010)

Hi again Coffee

As I responded sensibly the first time,

Please dont take offence at funny or unfunny comments, you get a lot of that on forums. I am guilty.

Also I mentioned STW in my first post, but forgot SFY, which is the ASX Top50 proxy, as you mentioned one holding and blue chip (its a low cost ETF)

The advantage of this is it can be traded immediately via online broker

The MINs are more cumbersome to transact both time and paperwork wise, and charge a higher ongoing fee.

or you could try this

http://commodities.about.com/od/profilesofcommodities/p/coffee_futures.htm


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## newbie trader (27 March 2010)

awg said:


> or you could try this
> 
> http://commodities.about.com/od/profilesofcommodities/p/coffee_futures.htm




Apparently coffee is the new wine. 

N.T


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## Joe Blow (27 March 2010)

I trust we will not be seeing any more insensitive remarks in this thread. Sadly, I just had to remove one.

Initially, it appeared as though some people were unaware of the difference between being totally blind and legally blind and were confused or a little curious. Fair enough. However, I sincerely hope that we have all now moved on.

Nobody with a disability should be made fun of, mocked or subject to ridicule. It's primary school stuff and not something I expect of those here at ASF. 

Now, I suggest we leave all that behind and move forward with the original topic of the thread; that is if anyone has anything further to add.


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## coffee_snob (29 March 2010)

Hi all

I have decided to stick my money in a net saver account for now and add to it fortnightly until it grows into at least 5k. May take some time, but that will give me the opportunity to learn more about the market.

Thanks to everyone for your advice. See you around the forum.


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## trainspotter (29 March 2010)

A very wise choice coffee_snob. Congratulations on your endeavours thus far and all the best in the markets. May the wind be at your shoulder and the sun in your face on all your future trades !


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## Sdajii (29 March 2010)

Having your money in the bank is a safe option, but I say nothing ventured nothing gained (though I say it for myself, not necessarily for everyone). We are all different, I would not have learned anything much without having put some real money down. Paper trading would never have worked for me. I started out with less than $2k (which left me with little more in the bank than I needed for fuel and food until my next pay cheque a couple of weeks later). Having real money on the market made me take close notice of what was going on, and after a few weeks I sold out, making a "whopping" $300 profit or something. Full of encouragement I put half of my next couple of pay cheques in, traded speculative shares holding for between a few hours and a few days at a time, and for about the next six weeks made over $1,000 every week - I was fairly clever and extremely lucky (though was naive enough to think it the other way around). Full of confidence (which I probably shouldn't have been) I made a few stupid decisions and lost a good deal of what I made (as was predicted by other members here I might say), but I remained ahead, have added fairly little of my own money since early on, and now have tens of thousands of dollars worth of shares - enough for a deposit on a house. Had I chosen to wait until I had $5k-10k to play with, I probably would still be looking at the money in the bank without the confidence to put risk it on something I didn't understand, and if I did it would be into blue chip shares because I'd be too scared to do anything else. For me, putting $1,200 or so on the line out of the $1,500 I had to my name at the time was the best thing I could have done, even though it might have been a stupid move from an advanced strategic point of view. If we don't give it a go as a novice we're never going to advance (assuming we're like Sdaji and don't take it seriously unless it's real, which may not describe you).

If you are comfortable losing $2,000 and you are very keen to learn about the stock market and get involved, I would suggest jumping in. You'll learn a lot faster, and if you're anything like me you will see the $2,000 as money well spent on learning, although I am a risk taker by nature, which isn't true of everyone. If you don't really want to get right into trading and just want to park your money somewhere, the bank is probably the best place.


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## Buckfont (29 March 2010)

Good onya coffee, a good decision to make which will free you up to educate yourself and read as much as you can without blowing your dough.

And you`re never too young, or too old to keep on learning.


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## coffee_snob (29 March 2010)

Sdajii thanks for your thoughts. While this is tempting to try, I think I will be logical for a wee bit longer until I learn a little more about some companies. I plan to set up a watch list and see how my intuition would lead me, without actually jumping in. 

I'm curious though - what shares did you sink you $1200 into? I am always interested to see where people started out (is there a thread on this anywhere?).

Also, is there somewhere that I can look up the minimum investment amount that a company will take? (in the event that I change my mind )


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## Sdajii (29 March 2010)

Perfectly reasonable, and for most people, sensible.

I started out with a few ideas about what would be good to buy into, but had no idea how to actually buy, sell, look up information, etc. The first company I bought into was one I knew absolutely nothing about, it was a "sure thing" tip from a friend, which I blindly followed, and initially all it taught me was how to use the Westpac broking system (though for my first few weeksof active day trading I didn't realise I could get real time market depth information and exclusively used nothing more than the 20 minute delay price quotes on ASX! Amazingly, I did this extremely successfully!). Looking back at it now, I could see where my friend was coming from. The company had declared an off market buy back at about 50% above the current trading price. It took a while for the market to respond, and I sold out before the buy back went ahead. My friend bought massively more than I did, held on for the buy back (which was undersubscribed) and did very nicely indeed.

After that I started trading speculative biotech stocks, taking risks far more extreme than I realised, making profits far more lucky than I realised. Since then I've lost a fair bit on biotech (though less than I have made), lost a lot on CSS (which I knew was very risky but failed to realise was run by fraudulent scum - expensive lesson there, but a lesson well learned), made a bit on banks (blue chip, low risk), made a fair bit on energy (a mixture of luck and research), made a bit on commodities (again, a mixture of luck and research, as well as some advice from a friend).

I have never tried to buy as little as $1,200 after my first buy, but as far as I know you can buy quantities far smaller than any sensible person would bother with. The problem with small volumes is that you get wiped out by brokerage. I think you said you were going to use Comsec or Westpac, each of those will whack you with $29.95 per trade ($59.90 to buy then sell), regardless of whether you want a tiny amount or up to about $10-20k or something (my largest single trades so far have been just under $10k, I'm not sure where it gets more expensive). Buying anything under about $1-2k, your $60 in brokerage is going to hurt, as you're immediately down 3-6%.


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