# Investing my first $1500



## asfpep (29 June 2010)

Hello,

Id like to start buying shares but dont have the big bucks to do so. Is it possible to start with $500 - $1500?

Id like to buy a portfolio package where perhaps $1000 is invested in various companies.

Id also like to invest perhaps $500 in a particular company I see listed.

Is Comsec a good place to start?

Thanks


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## CapnBirdseye (29 June 2010)

Just before anyone does, nobody is allowed to recommend any shares for you.

Anyhow, well done, you haven't jsut jumped in.  I'd take $100 or $200 of that money and buy some good books.  Have a look through this forum for reviews.

Read as much as you can, and try to get a handle on "fundamentals" and technicals".... google is your friend... jsut steer clear of (most if not all) people selling you courses... again you'll find about those in this forum.

Lastly, before you dive in, work out what your goals are, timeframes and risk profile... 

Good luck!


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## akkopower (29 June 2010)

asfpep said:


> Hello,
> 
> Id like to start buying shares but dont have the big bucks to do so. Is it possible to start with $500 - $1500?
> 
> ...




for a min of 5k, comsec gives u a basket of 6 companies


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## Tatts (30 June 2010)

You could look into managed funds instead of directly buying shares.


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## JimBob (30 June 2010)

yeah, a managed fund where you could make regular additional deposits may be something to look into.  Keep in mind that a managed fund or blue chip shares may drop in price so you may end up with less that your initial deposit down the track.


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## wabbit (30 June 2010)

Take some of the initial investment and buy some proper financial advice from a trusted professional (ask your family and/or friends for their recommendations), who with the particular details of your circumstances could recommend a product to suit you and your circumstances.  You might end up doing something you hadn't considered, like borrowing to buy a capital guaranteed portfolio which could generate an income stream and has tax effects whilst minimising (but not completely eliminating) risk, or something other than carte-blanche buying a share portfolio.

Without being fully aware of your circumstances, employment, income, expenses, goals etc then, IMHO, you will be hard-pressed to get good information of the internet.





wabbit


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## Julia (30 June 2010)

Tatts said:


> You could look into managed funds instead of directly buying shares.



And you'd be paying out some of your money in fees to a fund manager who may well be less successful in making money for you than you'd be yourself if you learn about how to approach the market.

There are many options.  I'd suggest having a good read through the Beginners' Forum where you'll find many before you have asked the same question.
Bear in mind that right now could be a very disappointing time to put any money into the market.  I'm staying in cash at present.


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## nioka (30 June 2010)

The hardest thing I ever did was saving my first $1000. The easiest thing I ever did was to lose that $1000. Just make sure that you can afford to lose it if you decide to invest.

One of the worst decisions I ever made was to trust a financial adviser. I have come to the conclusion that most of them make a living by being paid to advise others. They do this because they can't make a living using their own advise and knowledge.
 The financial expert that sent me way into negative financial territory is still one of the "respected" contributors of financial advice in one of the leading newspapers.

The best advice I suggest is DYOR.


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## brty (30 June 2010)

I'm in the camp of spend some of that money on some good books, both technical and fundamental, to see what is out there and get a bit of background. If you want to buy a 'basket' of shares, something like STW, which is a fund that mimics the asx200, to be fairly appropriate. 
With such a small amount of money to begin with, you are not likely to do much damage, but will have an interest in learning more.

Beware of 'advice' on the net, even here...

Things like....



> proper financial advice from a trusted professional




The only person to trust with your money is you..



> buy a capital guaranteed portfolio




If you want something 'capital guaranteed' then put your money in the bank and earn interest. 

brty


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## Sdajii (30 June 2010)

I started out with a similar amount of money (about $2,000) and put most of it into one company, with a view to simply buying something I thought would go up in the short term (weeks) and sell. It was as much about just going through the process of buying and selling something to learn how it works as it was about making a bit of money (I think I sold out a few weeks later for a $200 or so profit, so my learning experience was a pleasant one). I made a few similar trades just to get the hang of it all, and was lucky enough for all of the first few to be profitable, often amazingly so (proportionate to the amount invested - often 20-40% within a week, although with such a small amount of money it wasn't a case of massive profits). It could just as easily have gone the other way, so keep that in mind. If you're a 'hands on' person, doing what I did will teach you more than reading books. Most people feel more comfortable reading books and arming themselves with a lot of theory, but for someone like me that would have been counterproductive as I'd have trouble mixing my theory with my practice.

If you're really keen to get into stock trading, jump in and go for it, knowing you might lose some money, but also knowing you'll quickly learn a lot. I would never have taken the theory as seriously if I didn't have real money on the line.

If you just want to find a nice place to invest some money and leave it sitting there without having to think about it too much, it's probably best to wait until you have more money and a strong reason to think a particular stock is going to go up. From a practical point of view, $1,500 isn't really worth putting into the stock market and these days I wouldn't make a trade of under about $4-5k, but $1,500 is enough to buy something and see how it all works, without it being more than you can afford to lose (well, I'm assuming). If losing $500 is going to be a big problem for you, keep your $1,500 in the bank. Right now is a particularly risky time to be jumping in for your first experience.


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## Surly (30 June 2010)

wabbit said:


> Take some of the initial investment and buy some proper financial advice from a trusted professional
> 
> wabbit




I am at a loss to understand why following the FSR these people are allowed to be called "financial advisers" given most of them are simply managed fund sales people. I guess Managed Fund Sales Person does not look the same on a business card.

cheers
Surly


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## trainspotter (30 June 2010)

Take it to the casino and place it all on black 13. Only 1.111 to 1 odds.


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## electronicmaster (30 June 2010)

Here is a good start.

Go To video.google.com and search for these videos.

Money As Debt
Zeitgeist: Addendum
Money, Banking and the Federal Reserve

Australia has a central bank that is linked to the FED, so the general rules are the same in Australian banking system.

Money is also under the Maritime Admiralty Law


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## Julia (30 June 2010)

Surly said:


> I am at a loss to understand why following the FSR these people are allowed to be called "financial advisers" given most of them are simply managed fund sales people. I guess Managed Fund Sales Person does not look the same on a business card.
> 
> cheers
> Surly



Agree entirely.   The same frequently applies to 'advisers' from full service stockbrokers.


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## craigj (30 June 2010)

come up with a plan to save $10 000 and during that time learn about the market read the paper magazines and books from the library then ask everyone for advice again


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## BrightGreenGlow (30 June 2010)

I believe a fund is a bad choice due to the fees etc.. Maybe research a few blue chip companies and learn as you go. Maybe ones that don't cost heaps, look for the cheaper ones maybe.

An example would be Telstra at only $3.27ish I think. I think learn as you go is a good idea. Watch the market for a few weeks and pretend you bought some shares and see if you would have faired.

Due to brokerage fees it might be better to wait and acquire more cash to buy more shares in the one hit too.

I use Commsec and believe they are excellent. I think they have a promo if you join up you get $600 in free brokerage.


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## poverty (3 July 2010)

wabbit said:


> Take some of the initial investment and buy some proper financial advice from a trusted professional (ask your family and/or friends for their recommendations), who with the particular details of your circumstances could recommend a product to suit you and your circumstances.




Don't do this.


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## ck13488 (3 July 2010)

craigj said:


> come up with a plan to save $10 000 and during that time learn about the market read the paper magazines and books from the library then ask everyone for advice again



+1

i was in the same position not too long ago. 
stick the $1500 in Ubank. 6.51% if you put in $200 a month.

learn from as many sources as you can for a year or so and you should realise how much BS is out there and how little you know. You will get an idea of the risk profile you are comfortable with and by that time have a capital base to work with.


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## johenmo (3 July 2010)

Everyone's covered it.  If you're young there's no hurry especially with the market being as it is.  And the smaller the amount the more the trade cost affects you.  Comsec is roughly $20 each way so $40 of $500 means you have to get 8% before your break even.

Save more, learn a bit more (money management etc) and watch the market during this time.  6 to 12 months won't change much except your amount to start with.

This site has lots on good books to read.  And you can find a lot of the good books second hand or as e books.
Good luck.


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## Sean K (3 July 2010)

poverty said:


> Don't do this.



No, that's how most of us start.


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## tech/a (4 July 2010)

*Personally Id become an expert in 1 stock.*

Overtime youll know all there is you can know on the price action and performance of your pet stock.

With the Resources tax now pretty well sorted I would suggest that you could do far worse than placing all your eggs in a sound emerging miner.

You will be in a position to out perform most.
You'll learn a heap in the process.

*Be in a hurry to dump it if it falls 10% below your buy price and be reluctant to sell it if its above your buy price.*

The best advice you'll ever get from a DUCK.


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## nioka (4 July 2010)

craigj said:


> come up with a plan to save $10 000 and during that time learn about the market read the paper magazines and books from the library then ask everyone for advice again




Why?

It would be better to learn by risking $1,500 than to risk $10,000 learning!

As tech says become as familiar with one stock as you can. With $1,000 I doubt if you should try more than one anyway.


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## tech/a (4 July 2010)

Now I'm intregued by this exercise so thought Id pick a stock and trade an *imaginary* $1500 and see what we can do with it in 12 mths.

I expect this to trade an inside day so I wont be making out to buy this right now. But will post commntary as we go.
Stop is obviously .42c I'll only risk 10% ($150 based on fixed fractional position sizing) so at 51c I can only buy 1666 shares.(9c risk).

Will wait for a better value setup may even be able to reduce the trade risk.
Should be a bit of fun and maybe some very green newbies may pick up something useful.

The blue Boxes are VOLUME resistance.
The Heavy Blue line is Support at 44c.

CLICK TO EXPAND


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## Slipperz (4 July 2010)

asfpep said:


> Hello,
> 
> Id like to start buying shares but dont have the big bucks to do so. Is it possible to start with $500 - $1500?
> 
> ...




Good luck!


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## Garpal Gumnut (4 July 2010)

Lift up your mattress.
Place the $1500 in your hand.
Push your hand in as far as it will go.
Then push just a bit further.
Release the $1500.
Return after October and retrieve the money.
Read all posts in ASF since this post.
Pick a stock, and away you go.

gg


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## JimBob (4 July 2010)

tech/a said:


> *
> With the Resources tax now pretty well sorted I would suggest that you could do far worse than placing all your eggs in a sound emerging miner.
> *



*

There is a good thread on Iron Ore Junior Comparisons

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15921

it might be a good place to start researching if you decide to go down this path.*


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## nioka (4 July 2010)

tech/a said:


> Now I'm intregued by this exercise so thought Id pick a stock and trade an *imaginary* $1500 and see what we can do with it in 12 mths.




A good challenge. I have one to turn $5,000 into $50,000. using BUL. 

I'll take out another with $1,500 by buying EKA next week. I expect EKA to possibly be taken over in a short period of time. If so the proceeds will then be invested in AUT. It will be a real $1,500 and I will not use stops.The reason I will not use stops is that there is a good chance that this volatile market could stop out the stock when I would not want to sell. I retain the right to sell and reinvest in another stock at any time. 

Follow me at your own risk as I'm often wrong.


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## nioka (5 July 2010)

nioka said:


> A good challenge. I have one to turn $5,000 into $50,000. using BUL.
> 
> I'll take out another with $1,500 by buying EKA next week. I expect EKA to possibly be taken over in a short period of time. If so the proceeds will then be invested in AUT. It will be a real $1,500 and I will not use stops.The reason I will not use stops is that there is a good chance that this volatile market could stop out the stock when I would not want to sell. I retain the right to sell and reinvest in another stock at any time.
> 
> Follow me at your own risk as I'm often wrong.




Order Type: Buy Code: EKA Description EUREKA ENERGY LTD FPO (ORDINARY FULLY PAID) Executed Price ($): 0.19 Quantity Ordered: 7737 
Quantity Outstanding: 0 Quantity Executed: 7737 
 Status: Complete Order Number: WB52901089 

Bought the EKA at open  cost with brokerage $1499.98.


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## Garpal Gumnut (5 July 2010)

Tatts said:


> You could look into managed funds instead of directly buying shares.




lol

Why? 

Its like sending someone down to 7eleven to buy some coke.

You have no idea what they paid for the bottles and you have to pay them for the privilege.



JimBob said:


> yeah, a managed fund where you could make regular additional deposits may be something to look into.  Keep in mind that a managed fund or blue chip shares may drop in price so you may end up with less that your initial deposit down the track.




It drops in price the moment you buy it.
Try selling 10 secs after buying.
and you wait forever for your dough.



wabbit said:


> Take some of the initial investment and buy some proper financial advice from a trusted professional (ask your family and/or friends for their recommendations), who with the particular details of your circumstances could recommend a product to suit you and your circumstances.  You might end up doing something you hadn't considered, like borrowing to buy a capital guaranteed portfolio which could generate an income stream and has tax effects whilst minimising (but not completely eliminating) risk, or something other than carte-blanche buying a share portfolio.
> 
> Without being fully aware of your circumstances, employment, income, expenses, goals etc then, IMHO, you will be hard-pressed to get good information of the internet.
> 
> ...




This was the method employed by many in Townsville over the past ten years. They decided on Storm Financial. It was trusted. It was recommended by family and friends.

I believe Mr.Cassimatis is planning a return to Financial Planning, so wait until the dust settles on the litigation and give your dough to him.

He is much better at spending it than you.

gg


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## CapnBirdseye (10 July 2010)

tech/a said:


> *Personally Id become an expert in 1 stock.*
> 
> Overtime youll know all there is you can know on the price action and performance of your pet stock.
> 
> ...




Sound advice and this exercise can be pretty interesting too.  

Also, bear in mind that there will be plenty of tomorows...  what I mean by that is that there is rarely any urgency to buy any particular stock - even off the back of good news.  There is always another (and often better) day to buy.


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## Wysiwyg (10 July 2010)

CapnBirdseye said:


> Sound advice and this exercise can be pretty interesting too.



Sound advice if one gets the market timing right. Buying in a descending market is likely to see many stop outs. Stocks ranging + 10% would also see many stop outs.



* No feed back or acknowledgment from original poster so I doubt they were ever serious about it.


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## tech/a (10 July 2010)

Wysiwyg said:


> Sound advice if one gets the market timing right. Buying in a descending market is likely to see many stop outs. Stocks ranging + 10% would also see many stop outs.




Very true in any long term investment particulaly this market (if your long)
UXC is still in the watchlist for the exercise and having just traded at resistance may present an opportunity later in the week.
It is locked in this consolidation which could well be accumulation.

So for me buying at the low end of the consolidation represents better value than the upper end.---Unless we have a solid breakout (Gap out).

So far our $1500 is still in tact.

CLICK TO EXPAND


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## Wysiwyg (10 July 2010)

tech/a said:


> Very true in any long term investment particulaly this market (if your long)
> UXC is still in the watchlist for the exercise and having just traded at resistance may present an opportunity later in the week.



UXC announced the possible acquisition of another 'significant' party and are performing due diligence. The exuberance will be short lived for mine because this company is all talk and *in a terminal* *downtrend*. EPS from last half yearly report were 1.27c so the price is trading (too many ?) multiples of that already at 55c and they have stopped paying a dividend.

DUD.


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## skinner36 (10 July 2010)

Tech,

Could you please explaine what you mean by volume resistance? I have searched the internet for an explanation but can't find one that clears it up for me.

Cheers,

John


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## tech/a (11 July 2010)

Wysiwyg said:


> UXC announced the possible acquisition of another 'significant' party and are performing due diligence. The exuberance will be short lived for mine because this company is all talk and *in a terminal* *downtrend*. EPS from last half yearly report were 1.27c so the price is trading (too many ?) multiples of that already at 55c and they have stopped paying a dividend.
> 
> DUD.




You could be right. I dont care for fundamentals--like most things they can be manipulated.The exercise (for me at least) is to do better than bank interest/general market performance on $1500 in a year.

UXC was one that came up on that nights scan.



skinner36 said:


> Tech,
> 
> Could you please explaine what you mean by volume resistance? I have searched the internet for an explanation but can't find one that clears it up for me.
> 
> ...




Vloume resistance is a term/observation of mine. I havent seen it in a book either. If you look for EXTREME volume 4* or more the 10 period average 
you'll probably make the same observation I have on many many charts.
Extreme volume as depicted on a single bar in timeframes from as high as weekly to hourly (in very liquid stocks or markets) are bars where a proice is seen as a point to liquidate or buy.
These bars tend to become support or resistance zones.The range of the bar.
The higher the volume the stronger the S/or R

** These *zones* remain in tact until the next high volume bar prints going forward.(Support remains until another support bar is printed and resistance until another is printed.) You remove the *zone* before it.

*** how do you identify support or resistance bars (Buying --support
Selling---resistance.)
If an up bar is followed by a down bar then that was selling (Resistance) if a down bar is followed by an up bar then that is buying (Support).

*Often* the tops or bottoms of these bars will become conventional support or resistance pivots.

*****Zones* are shown on the chart for identification purposes in realtime you would only have those zones now in play highlighted.

CLICK TO EXPAND


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## nioka (15 July 2010)

nioka said:


> Order Type: Buy Code: EKA Description EUREKA ENERGY LTD FPO (ORDINARY FULLY PAID) Executed Price ($): 0.19 Quantity Ordered: 7737
> Quantity Outstanding: 0 Quantity Executed: 7737
> Status: Complete Order Number: WB52901089
> 
> Bought the EKA at open  cost with brokerage $1499.98.




EKA now has a 1 for 6 SPP. This means the 7737 held entitles me to 1290 more shares @ 17c share, cost $219.30. For the exercise I will assume there are no more funds available so I will have to sell some after the record date to pay for the offer. The record date is 22nd and with T+3 I can sell after 19th and before 7th August. I will have to take up the offer by 5PM on 10th August.

So sometime during that time I will sell the 7737, pay the cost of the new offer and buy as many back as the funds allow. Hopefully by the end of this trading I will end up with more than 7737 shares.

An alternative would be to take todays high price of 21.5c and buy back as the shares become ex the SPP. This could be the way to go normally but with EKA there could be some good news any day that may send the SP up and up and I do not want to be out of holding the stock.

On todays price the holding is worth $1663.45 and showing a profit of 10% and at the rate of around 100% PA

Watch this space.


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## BELFORT (15 July 2010)

CapnBirdseye said:


> Just before anyone does, nobody is allowed to recommend any shares for you.
> 
> Anyhow, well done, you haven't jsut jumped in.  I'd take $100 or $200 of that money and buy some good books.  Have a look through this forum for reviews.
> 
> ...






Cannot stress how important the above post is. 

I jumped into the market blind and got burnt badly! Read as much as you can, these forums are very useful too! Just remember, doing your own research is important - don't get sucked in my other posters comments re a specific stock and pie in the sky valuations. You can never trust someones intentions on a forum.. Not so much here, but on another 'reputable' forum you will have to scroll through pages of rubbish valuations with no backing whatsoever before you find a decent post! 

And never even consider a stock that is in the 'most discussed' section of a forum! Its often too late


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## nioka (18 July 2010)

nioka said:


> EKA now has a 1 for 6 SPP. This means the 7737 held entitles me to 1290 more shares @ 17c share, cost $219.30. For the exercise I will assume there are no more funds available so I will have to sell some after the record date to pay for the offer. The record date is 22nd and with T+3 I can sell after 19th and before 7th August. I will have to take up the offer by 5PM on 10th August.
> 
> So sometime during that time I will sell the 7737, pay the cost of the new offer and buy as many back as the funds allow. Hopefully by the end of this trading I will end up with more than 7737 shares.
> 
> ...




"Attached is an electronic confirmation confirming that we have SOLD for you 7737 units in EUREKA ENERGY LTD FPO (ORDINARY FULLY PAID) at 0.205 "

Sale yielded $1556.14. Setting aside $219.30 for the SPP. means that I have $1336.84 to rebuy EKA. I have placed an order for 6600 @ 19.5c and am at the head of the queue at that price. These trades are not as good as I had wished nor are they as good as a paper trade would show and my order may not get filled at the 19.5. Brokerage on these small trades is also costly. An SPP usually eats into profit short term but it does offer a chance to increase share numbers which is the name of the game with a fundamentally sound stock. I believe the EKA is fundamentally sound. Other trades I am doing in EKA with larger numbers and not having to sell to fund the SPP are showing much better results so far.

Watch this space, it is early days yet.


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## Garpal Gumnut (18 July 2010)

I still reckon sticking it under the mattress would have saved you a lot of bother and distress mate, and you'd have $1500. and its nearly August, and then September, and then October, when the markets will crash again imho.

gg


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## nioka (19 July 2010)

I had a seniors moment when I placed the order for 6600. The funds allow for the purchase of 6702 so I have altered the order for that amount. The closing date is Aug 10th.  Watch this space.


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## OK2 (19 July 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I still reckon sticking it under the mattress would have saved you a lot of bother and distress mate, and you'd have $1500. and its nearly August, and then September, and then October, when the markets will crash again imho.
> 
> gg




If you cry wolf long enough eventually it will happen. Why the crash? What will bring it on? What levels will we go to? How will the recovery come about? And if it isn't August, September, October could it be November, December, February?


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## Wysiwyg (26 July 2010)

tech/a said:


> Very true in any long term investment particulaly this market (if your long)
> UXC is still in the watchlist for the exercise and having just traded at resistance may present an opportunity later in the week.
> It is locked in this consolidation which could well be accumulation.
> 
> ...




A good first move would be to avoid down trending stock unless one has a great pivot point entry strategy. UXC back on down trend as the exuberance buyers bail out and the faith players cling on in hope of some definite acquisition.


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## So_Cynical (26 July 2010)

Wysiwyg said:


> A good first move would be to avoid down trending stock unless one has a great pivot point entry strategy. UXC back on down trend as the exuberance buyers bail out and the faith players cling on in hope of some definite acquisition.




Hows this for objectivity ...UXC appears to me to be clearly ranging more than down trending, at least on the 6 month chart.


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## Wysiwyg (28 July 2010)

So_Cynical said:


> Hows this for objectivity ...UXC appears to me to be clearly ranging more than down trending, at least on the 6 month chart.




Yes you are right and I'm swinging to that objectivity too. Old support sinking the hooks in for an ascension of sorts maybe. Let's see what the majority think.


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## manyon22 (28 July 2010)

Getting back to the original question.

$1500 imho is enough to start with, you could put $500 into three different companies and though $500 is not much, it's a start, and your risk is reduced.

Someone earlier felt that by the time a company was all over the forum it was too late, i'd disagree. I heard about SSN and ADI from looking through forum posts. I'd also suggest that the stock tipping competitons can give you some good companies to consider.

It does all depend on what you are hoping to achieve and how much effort you are willing to put in.

Some very good advice i received was, that you have to find a investment style that suits you, that you are comfortable with and of course one that works!

I'd also suggest that rather than buy books the library is a good resource, and indeed online.

Good luck


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## McCoy Pauley (28 July 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I still reckon sticking it under the mattress would have saved you a lot of bother and distress mate, and you'd have $1500. and its nearly August, and then September, and then October, when the markets will crash again imho.
> 
> gg




Why would you stick it under the proverbial mattress when the OP could stick the money in a 90 day term deposit or into an online-only high interest rate account and not lose money to the remorseless advance of inflation?

Anyway, one possible means of gaining some experience is to play the shares game on the ASX website here.  Get a hypothetical portfolio of $50,000 to start with, apparently.


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## nioka (30 July 2010)

nioka said:


> "Attached is an electronic confirmation confirming that we have SOLD for you 7737 units in EUREKA ENERGY LTD FPO (ORDINARY FULLY PAID) at 0.205 "
> 
> Sale yielded $1556.14. Setting aside $219.30 for the SPP. means that I have $1336.84 to rebuy EKA. I have placed an order for 6600 @ 19.5c and am at the head of the queue at that price. These trades are not as good as I had wished nor are they as good as a paper trade would show and my order may not get filled at the 19.5. Brokerage on these small trades is also costly. An SPP usually eats into profit short term but it does offer a chance to increase share numbers which is the name of the game with a fundamentally sound stock. I believe the EKA is fundamentally sound. Other trades I am doing in EKA with larger numbers and not having to sell to fund the SPP are showing much better results so far.
> 
> Watch this space, it is early days yet.




In view of the relationship in the SP with AUT and my assessment that 1 AUT is worth 4.5 EKA as a minimum I have bought 1536 AUT with the funds left after the amount set aside for the SPP. As below:

"WB53247015 30/07/2010  B AUT 1,536  0.828  29.95  1,302.06  5/08/2010  Confirmed "

If or when the compatative value changes in favour of EKA I may trade back.

Still early days.


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## J&M (30 July 2010)

nioka said:


> In view of the relationship in the SP with AUT and my assessment that 1 AUT is worth 4.5 EKA as a minimum I have bought 1536 AUT with the funds left after the amount set aside for the SPP. As below:
> 
> "WB53247015 30/07/2010  B AUT 1,536  0.828  29.95  1,302.06  5/08/2010  Confirmed "
> 
> ...




Hey Nioka '
I also have a holding in AUT 
Pls keep us newbies informed its a learning experience
thanks '
James


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## nioka (6 August 2010)

Progress report;

The value of the holding is now;

1536  AUT @ 94c =  $1444  plus
1290  EKA  @ 24c ($309) = $1753.

Target now is to trade AUT for the EKA if the ratio will get me 5 EKA for 1 AUT. With news to come for AUT regarding drilling in which EKA has no interest I suggest that this is possible. If not then will just hold as is for now.


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## nioka (9 August 2010)

Progress report;

The value of the holding is now;

1536 AUT @ 97c = $1490 plus
1290 EKA @ 26c ($309) = $1825. a 20% increase in a very short period.

So at this stage,yes it is worth starting with $1500.

The potential is still great. On some brokers forward valuations this holding has plenty of upside in the immediate future. As it turns out today it would have been better to have stayed with EKA.


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## nioka (9 August 2010)

nioka said:


> Progress report;
> 
> The value of the holding is now;
> 
> ...




The value as at now is $1882.


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## nioka (13 August 2010)

Update'

1536 AUT @ $1.06 = $1628.16 +
1290 EKA  @ 32c   = $2040.96

Gain now 33% in 39 days = approx 300% PA

Yes it is worth starting with $1500 in the stock market. And there is plenty of life left in this one.


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## JimBob (13 August 2010)

You are progressing really well so far nioka.  If the stock market turns pear shaped, are you going to sell out or hold tight for more gains?


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## nioka (13 August 2010)

JimBob said:


> You are progressing really well so far nioka.  If the stock market turns pear shaped, are you going to sell out or hold tight for more gains?



Definitely hold at this stage. I never worry about pear shaped markets. They are where you make money. I will only sell for 3 reasons. The first is if the fundamentals turn me off and second to trade for freebies. I'll just try and end up with more shares in the company regardless of the price. The third reason will come if I find something that I think has much more potential.


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## JimBob (13 August 2010)

Its good to see someone take up a challenge, put their money on the line and posting updates as they go.  Good luck for the rest of the year.


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## 5424577 (14 August 2010)

nioka said:


> Definitely hold at this stage. I never worry about pear shaped markets. They are where you make money. I will only sell for 3 reasons. The first is if the fundamentals turn me off and second to trade for freebies. I'll just try and end up with more shares in the company regardless of the price. The third reason will come if I find something that I think has much more potential.




Hi nioka, nice to see a fellow north nsw resident enjoying paradise. 

As a new investor, learning about eps and pb etc ratios as assessing value of stocks was a big jump from looking at feet all day(I'm a podiatrist) If you don't mind, what are your personal fundamental areas you look at? 

Thanks very much
Phil


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## condog (17 August 2010)

Id take note of what nokia syas, hes on a winner, im in there with him, 400%+ this year and plenty more if oil price stays strong. With $1500 chasing dividneds is probably too slow. Consider chasing growth.

Managed funds are not for anyone who wants to learn. Problem is learning does involve mistakes, but the price is worth it. When you learn how to identify high growth low risk stocks , its game on.

Many people cant do it casue they are blinded by negativity and bad experiences. But the opportunities are out there.

I cnat reccomend AUT, but i can say nokias figures stack up and the thread is worht the time it will take you to read it.


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## nioka (17 August 2010)

5424577 said:


> As a new investor, learning about eps and pb etc ratios as assessing value of stocks was a big jump from looking at feet all day(I'm a podiatrist) If you don't mind, what are your personal fundamental areas you look at?
> 
> Thanks very much
> Phil




I did PM you with the following question;

"I'm not sure what you mean by personal fundamental areas. Do you mean what fundamental areas relating to stocks do I personally use or do you mean what fundamental areas do I use to establish my personality?"

Assuming you mean with regards to investing;
I like to pick companies that have growth potential. I like companies that have an action plan. Either as develloping some resource or reinvigorating something that has had a "bad period". Of the 28 stocks that I currently hold there is only one that has paid a dividend this year. 

 I look to see what I believe are the prospects of the company. Then I look to see if I recognise any directors on my black list. That list includes any that I feel have let me down in the past. (It includes the directors of ADI that sold us down the river recently.) Next comes finance to complete the current stage including the prospect of obtaining further finance to advance their project.

 I need to see that company working hard to reach the goal without the directors using the company as a cash cow.

Two companies that fit that bill are AUT and EKA. Not only do they fit the bill but because they have identical aims it has been easy to trade the difference in their relative values and increase the overall holding while never being out of holding an interest in the play. With other companies that I trade for freebies I can never be sure whether I will end up in front or behind when I sell, whereas I buy and sell AUT and EKA mostly at the same time. The actual SP on the day doesn't matter. It is only the relative SP that counts.

This particular challenge was all about whether or not it is worthwhile investing with only $1,500.


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## Trend Hunter (17 August 2010)

Getting back to the original question.

If your a newbie, expanding your stock market knowledge before investing all you hard earned cash is sound advice, as Brty first mentioned.

Buying a good stock market book is good idea, but I'd suggest keeping you money in your pocket first up, and absorb as much free stock market information on the web to help lay a solid knowledge foundation.

Apart from forums like ASF, Youtube is one of the best free information sources online, and watching videos is a great way to absorb the information on all sorts of Stock Market topics.

Once you've learnt enough, you will be in a better position to make an educated decision on what specialized knowledge you want to learn and where to invest your money.


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## nioka (17 August 2010)

Trend Hunter said:


> Getting back to the original question.
> .




The original question was about whether or not it was worth starting out with only $1500. I am endeavouring to show that it is. I am endeavouring to show also that it can be done without too much risk by choosing researched stocks that are fundamentally sound. There is always some risk and anyone should always invest in the stock market money that they could afford to lose or at least lose a proportion. But then life itself is a risky business. 

After all this is a stock forum so I assume most people logging on are interested in investing.


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## Trend Hunter (17 August 2010)

Hi Nioka.

I guess I got the impression from the original message that asfpep is new to trading, and I'm a believer of 'knowledge first' is the best way to go.

Obviously you have some knowledge & experience in trading.
IMO it would be unrealistic for someone who is new to trading, or is finding their feet, to get the same results as someone with more experience and knowledge.


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## nioka (19 August 2010)

update;

WB53525639 19/08/2010  B EKA 5,880  0.290  29.95  1,735.15  24/08/2010   
 WB53525707 19/08/2010  S AUT 1,536  1.145  29.95  1,728.77  24/08/2010  
Today sold AUT and rebought EKA.

Holding now 7170 EKA. Value current @ 29c= $2079.30.

Reason for the change. EKA recently announced the purchase of additional lease areas, adding value. EKA may also be the subject of a takeover offer shortly (only my personal guess). Today offered a trading opportunity. I did not get the best trades possible as I had to make the change an instant one whereas normally I may take a day or two to swap to get better prices.

One important lesson though that should be remembered. I would have been better not to have traded at all. Even though I now have more value I actually have less shares and the value would have been greater had I just sat on the EKA that were bought at the start. Hindsight is a wonderful tool to have for those so gifted. I'm still learning from experience.


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## Jako (21 August 2010)

Hi nioka, 

Been following what you are doing for a while now, and enjoying reading your posts, on both threads.

Just a question, when you swap, why dont you keep a small base holding, so if that companys share price rises unexpectedly you would still be "in" although at a reduced level.

cheers


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## So_Cynical (21 August 2010)

Jako said:


> Hi nioka,
> 
> Been following what you are doing for a while now, and enjoying reading your posts, on both threads.
> 
> ...




Would also lower CGT liability's if your an investor and tax liability's if your a trader....assuming you have a longer term interest in holding the 2 stocks, building a holding.


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## nioka (21 August 2010)

Jako said:


> Hi nioka,
> 
> Been following what you are doing for a while now, and enjoying reading your posts, on both threads.
> 
> ...




For the purpose of this exercise I am assuming the someone investing their first $1500 doesnt have a tax problem. This was to show that it is reasonable to start with only $1500. Actually I think it is OK to start with as little as $500 (but dont expect to retire after a year or two on the income). In my own case I hold considerable EKA and AUT in a seperate investment account which should keep tax to the minimum if held long enough. I have never been completely out of either stock and the capital gains tax concessions dont apply to the trading account as profits there are taxed as income.


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## Jako (15 October 2010)

nioka, 

Nothing on this thread for quite a while either..

looking forward to your next posts

cheers


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## nioka (15 October 2010)

Jako said:


> nioka,
> 
> Nothing on this thread for quite a while either..
> 
> ...




Marking time waiting for some new news that will boost the stock. A chance of a takeover. New drilling report was mainly good. I expect more increase in value. Today's value $2151. The returns are fair so far but nothing out of the box. Appears to be low risk.


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## lamta20 (27 October 2010)

your best option is to put that money into managed funds, buying direct shares is hard if you have no education in it. Maybe read a few books on trading, theres also heaps of information on the internet that you can learn from. In say ing that, this forum is probably the best to learn from. 

cheers


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## ParleVouFrancois (27 October 2010)

I'd agree with Lamta except instead of managed funds, go for a broad index fund.


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## nioka (27 October 2010)

ParleVouFrancois said:


> I'd agree with Lamta except instead of managed funds, go for a broad index fund.




Why let some whippersnipper play games with YOUR money and cream off a big percentage of the profit. Remember too that their record is,on average, not much better than bank interest.


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## Aleksey (27 October 2010)

Firstly, you need a broker. I would recommend one with a percentage brokerage fee. For a $500 investment, you would be paying cheaper brokerage fees than others with a fixed cost.

Secondly, now that you can actually buy something, you need to consider a trading strategy. 2 good investment strategies both varying in levels of risk are:
1. Invest $500 (or less batches) into new floats/low priced stocks that have potential to grow. (This strategy is a little risky as you can lose your money but can be very rewarding in terms of capital gains and also requires you to spend time doing research) and
2. Invest $500 (or less) into strong dividend paying stocks ( This will reduce your risk levels and can provide decent future growth)

These are just suggestions and i am not offering financial advice, do your own research before making decisions.
Goodluck with your trading


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## Julia (27 October 2010)

lamta20 said:


> your best option is to put that money into managed funds, buying direct shares is hard if you have no education in it.



Disagree.  If you buy, e.g. some Woolworths, Wesfarmers, any big bank, or other top blue chip company there's little risk in the medium/long term.
Better to start off this way to get a feel of the market than using managed funds which teaches you nothing, and makes your precious funds available to some anonymous fund manager who may not even beat the index, while taking a substantial management percentage in fees.



ParleVouFrancois said:


> I'd agree with Lamta except instead of managed funds, go for a broad index fund.



Agree.  Or buy a company like Argo Investments.




nioka said:


> Why let some whippersnipper play games with YOUR money and cream off a big percentage of the profit. Remember too that their record is,on average, not much better than bank interest.



Exactly so, and frequently less than bank interest.


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## brty (27 October 2010)

Aleksey,

I get a little annoyed at this kind of incorrect, blatant advertising from a first time poster..



> For a $500 investment, you would be paying only about $3.5 in brokerage costs




Yet from the mob you send people to, this is what is actually quoted...



> Trade shares from $14.95 or 0.11%




I agree with Julia, investing with a company gives you interest and things to research.

brty


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## Aleksey (27 October 2010)

woops sorry. im not trying to advertise anything. ill fix that part up


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## nioka (11 November 2010)

Update.
 Value today.$2509. Indications are that there will still be improvement in this stock. I am now looking for an opportunity to sell down half the holding to spread the risk over two stocks and take some profit from this one. Brokerage on this size holding is a problem that has to be taken into account.

The aim was to show that $1500 was not too small an amount with which to start investing. I suggest that this question has been answered however i will continue with the exercise.


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## J&M (11 November 2010)

nioka said:


> Update.
> Value today.$2509. Indications are that there will still be improvement in this stock. I am now looking for an opportunity to sell down half the holding to spread the risk over two stocks and take some profit from this one. Brokerage on this size holding is a problem that has to be taken into account.
> 
> The aim was to show that $1500 was not too small an amount with which to start investing. I suggest that this question has been answered however i will continue with the exercise.




great post for us new share buyers 
What search criteria will you use for the next stock buy
or will you hold longer for the upward trend of EKA 

James


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## nioka (11 November 2010)

J&M said:


> great post for us new share buyers
> What search criteria will you use for the next stock buy
> or will you hold longer for the upward trend of EKA
> 
> James




There is probably more upward movement in EKA so I'm not in a hurry to exit. In my main holdings I have a few that are performing much better than EKA but this is because I hold them at much better buying prices than they are right now. LYC has been a great buy this week.SDL, CFE and NTU were great buying recently and probably still have a lot of room to move. Then there are stocks like VPG and CER that have possibilities but with some degree of risk. The question is "are they any better than EKA". Because I'm not sure of the answer I will stick with EKA for this exercise for now.

I am looking for another stock that is still developing, close to producing or selling a product. One with sound fundamentals, cash on hand, directors that do not have their snout in the trough but do have skin in the game and one that is being ignored by the market. Preferably one that is based in Australia to reduce soverign risk. Not easy to find.

Because this will be a second stock and it is only the profit from the first that will be invested then a small degree of risk is tolerable.

All the above is my personal thoughts and should not be taken as advice in any way. I'm often wrong.


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## Jako (11 November 2010)

J&M said:


> great post for us new share buyers
> What search criteria will you use for the next stock buy
> or will you hold longer for the upward trend of EKA
> 
> James




I think it is a great read & very interesting for investors of all kinds.

Keep it up nioka, hope all goes well.

cheers


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## xinyu09 (11 November 2010)

Thanks Nioka, great Read!


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## nioka (15 November 2010)

Update:
I chose to change over some of my AUT and EKA for TXN in my own investment account so Ithought I may as well do the same with this exercise. So;

15/11/2010  WB5487****  Buy  TXN  1,715  1,715  0.585  
15/11/2010  WB5487****  Sell  EKA  3,170  3,170  0.335   .

 So now we have:

4000 EKA @ 0.335 $1340 plus 1715 TXN @ 0.585 $1003 = $2343.
 It may have been a proposition to change all the EKA for TXN because the brokerage on these small trades is high in proportion with the size of the trade. However this spreads the risk now over two businesses.


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## J&M (16 November 2010)

nioka said:


> Update:
> I chose to change over some of my AUT and EKA for TXN in my own investment account so Ithought I may as well do the same with this exercise. So;
> 
> 15/11/2010  WB5487****  Buy  TXN  1,715  1,715  0.585
> ...




Hello Nioka
this is an interesting thread 
Why did you choose TXN is it because 
They are also a player in Eagle Ford Shale 
Just expanded its holdings acreage 
Already have wells producing and bringing in funds to drill more wells

Did you look at other companies in the same area 

Have a nice day 
James


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## luke256 (16 November 2010)

I think if you are planning to trade frequently then $5000 to $10,000 is a good amount to begin with. Minimum brokers commisions for trading stocks will eat up a lot of the profits on a small account if you trade a lot.  

Best thing i can think of is to learn as much as you can about the market from websites (i.e. ASX is good for the basics) and books (a few good ones are recomended in other posts). Then you will know what is best for you to do with the $1,500. Knowledge is power....and hopefully profits too!


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## nioka (17 November 2010)

J&M said:


> Hello Nioka
> this is an interesting thread
> Why did you choose TXN is it because
> They are also a player in Eagle Ford Shale
> ...



  I compared the charts of similar companies over the last 2 years. EKA, AUT and TXN were moving at the same pace for most of the time until recently when AUT and EKA shot ahead. I noticed that the drilling progran at TXN is behind that of the other two but now well under way. TXN also has a higher percentage interest in each of its wells. In my opinion it has room for more of an upward movement that the others. Just my opinion.


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## nioka (17 November 2010)

luke256 said:


> I think if you are planning to trade frequently then $5000 to $10,000 is a good amount to begin with. Minimum brokers commisions for trading stocks will eat up a lot of the profits on a small account if you trade a lot.




You could also say that $50,000 to $100,000 is a better too. or $1,000,000 better still. This exercise was to answer the question " Is it worth starting with only $1,500". It is no good saying that it is better to start with $10,000 to someone that only has $1,500.

The answer I am attempting to show is that "yes it is". The object with the investment into TXN is also to show that it is worthwhile starting with only $1,000 as well as spreading the risk a little. Brokers charges do eat away at the profits. (So do the extreme payments to directors etc.) A cost we have to bear I'm afraid.


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## johenmo (26 November 2010)

nioka said:


> You could also say that $50,000 to $100,000 is a better too. or $1,000,000 better still. This exercise was to answer the question " Is it worth starting with only $1,500". It is no good saying that it is better to start with $10,000 to someone that only has $1,500.
> 
> The answer I am attempting to show is that "yes it is". The object with the investment into TXN is also to show that it is worthwhile starting with only $1,000 as well as spreading the risk a little. Brokers charges do eat away at the profits. (So do the extreme payments to directors etc.) A cost we have to bear I'm afraid.




It's hard starting with little because of the comms.  I'd recommend to anyone who can to save enough and shift to someone like IB (which I did).  You get two effects - 1) you have a bigger bankroll so you can spread the trades and make each position slightly larger and 2) the % comm is lower.

If I take 1K positions then having only one means I need nearly 100% win rate.  Personally I don't like that sort of pressure.


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## nioka (26 November 2010)

johenmo said:


> It's hard starting with little because of the comms.  I'd recommend to anyone who can to save enough and shift to someone like IB (which I did).  You get two effects - 1) you have a bigger bankroll so you can spread the trades and make each position slightly larger and 2) the % comm is lower.
> 
> If I take 1K positions then having only one means I need nearly 100% win rate.  Personally I don't like that sort of pressure.






You also multiply the risk. If things go pear shaped you could end up in debt.


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## burglar (26 November 2010)

I'm hugely impressed nioka  
All and sundry try to change the topic but you keep bringing them back.
Can I start with $1500?

I agree with some here, that learning is important.
I also agree that if it is a bad time in the market, 
the mattress solution may be advisable.
But:
We all learn from our mistakes, I learn faster than most.
Skim reading:
http://www.scottberkun.com/essays/44-how-to-learn-from-your-mistakes/
Make interesting mistakes ... you learn a better lesson!
Trading does not preclude learning.
I waded into my first trade at the same time as I was wading into the library. 
If the library doesn't have the title you want, you ask nicely with smile and manners.  
They may get it from another library, they may even buy it in especially for you!


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## Lukytom92 (26 November 2010)

If my capital was only 1500$, and i wanted to spread it over a few companies. Does that mean i pay separate brokerage for each trade?


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## prawn_86 (26 November 2010)

Lukytom92 said:


> If my capital was only 1500$, and i wanted to spread it over a few companies. Does that mean i pay separate brokerage for each trade?




Yes


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## burglar (27 November 2010)

Lukytom92 said:


> If my capital was only 1500$, and i wanted to spread it over a few companies. Does that mean i pay separate brokerage for each trade?




Yes, one brokerage to buy; one brokerage to sell; and separate for each company. If you sell some and keep some; more brokerage!
*sigh* I so wanna be a broker

It is a nice luxury if you don't have to put all your eggs in one basket!

1. The Global Financial Crisis (GFC) caused many, many baskets to fall. 
2. Brokerage will make it increasingly harder to profit as the size of the trade decreases.





nioka said:


> Update.
> Value today.$2509. Indications are that there will still be improvement in this stock. I am now looking for an opportunity to sell down half the holding to spread the risk over two stocks and take some profit from this one. Brokerage on this size holding is a problem that has to be taken into account.




Read through the thread again, you will see nioka's point.
Turn one egg into two eggs first.
then put new egg into new basket.
continue with the exercise.


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## burglar (27 November 2010)

........................Trade..	Broker x2....%
One company..	 $1,500	$35.98	2.40%
Two companies.	    $750	$35.98	4.80%
Three companies	    $500	$35.98	7.20%

Is that right?
I thought it would be worse than that!


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## johenmo (27 November 2010)

nioka said:


> You also multiply the risk. If things go pear shaped you could end up in debt.




I'd say yes and no, because it depends on a number of factors - money management, % risk, one's trading plan/system etc etc..  But I don't get the point re getting in debt - I said save, not borrow. And stocks only.  Therefore you can lose only what you put in.  And I speak from (in)experience.  So I only make available what I can afford to lose. 

My current plan has a certain amount of capital, and only a set % gets invested at any one time - portfolio heat.The best single thing I have learned from people like you on ASF is to understand what I'm doing and how to manage risk.

If one has no plan other than buy what seems right then they may very well lose money.

So I'd go for a bigger capital base than 1500, especially if I was young (time is on my side), use a lower fee broker and and determine my portfolio heat ( both number of positions and $ amount) and risk/trade.  Which is what I have done.  My stepped plan had been Y1 - break even (didn't quite get there) , Y2 - do better than the bank (done that quite well after paying some subscription service fees), Y3 - better of Y2 goals or XJO performance - don't want to match the XJO if it is a negative year!


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## burglar (27 November 2010)

Wysiwyg said:


> UXC back on down trend as the exuberance buyers bail out and the faith players cling on in hope ...




The burglar is *the faith player who clings on in hope *
I want to break this habit (apologies to Nunthewiser) but first must find a better way! *Profiteer *has a nice ring to it, don't you think?


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## IB12 (27 November 2010)

I think you should just keep that 1.5 in the bank and practice somewhere on a paper account or try something like this:
http://vse.marketwatch.com/Game/GameOverview.aspx?id=VSE_Challenge2012

Found a trading game for you to practice on.


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## nioka (27 November 2010)

johenmo said:


> So I'd go for a bigger capital base than 1500, especially if I was young (time is on my side), use a lower fee broker and and determine my portfolio heat ( both number of positions and $ amount) and risk/trade.  Which is what I have done.  My stepped plan had been Y1 - break even (didn't quite get there) , Y2 - do better than the bank (done that quite well after paying some subscription service fees), Y3 - better of Y2 goals or XJO performance - don't want to match the XJO if it is a negative year!




The original question was " IS IT WORTH INVESTING AS LITTLE AS $1500" 

My example answered THAT question.

My answer is "YES"

My example proved that, yes it is.

Surely it is better to have more capital. Sure you can save more to add to it. 

BUT... What do you do with the $1,500 while you save up more?

Answer, Invest wisely and accumulate.

My first share buy cost me 10 Pounds. I doubled it in a month. I could see a fundamentally sound way of doing it with very little risk. That was all the spare cash I could find at the time that I could afford to lose.

There has to be some risk to get better than bank interest but you can reduce the risk by doing sound fundamental research.

Stocks to research in my view are;

EKA. Should become cash flow positive. Takeover potential.
AUT. Emerging shale oil producer.
SDL. Develloping iron ore miner.
CFE. Has assets for sale far in excess of its MC
CER. Has an NTA twice its SP.
NTU. Uranium and rare earth prospects
LYC. Develloping producer of rare earths. Leading the field towards production.
TXN. Great oil shale prospects in Texas.
BUL. Coal seam gas potential.
EDE. Holds patent for Hythane (currently being trialled) and a few interesting irons in the fire.

Then with more risk specs. BLG, TEY, TAS, VPG. All possible for excellent returns.

I hold all of these in reasonable numbers. The fact that I hold is definitely no guarantee on success as I'm often wrong. My recommendation is that they are all worth researching. The above is only information related to "Is it worth investing a small amount of money like $1,500. The best of these stocks attract negative criticism so DYOR.


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## Assasin (27 November 2010)

Well done Noika,

Fully respect all of your posts and your willingness to assist others.


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## IB12 (27 November 2010)

nioka said:


> The original question was " IS IT WORTH INVESTING AS LITTLE AS $1500"
> 
> My example answered THAT question.
> 
> ...




Well there are 10 stocks there you recommended. 
Now on commissions alone if someone were to trade that and own it, that would cost about $100. Double that if you trade with Comsec. 
Now on the return leg that would be another $100. 

So before you've even done anything, and before you've even made your gains (or losses!) you're already down about 6-12%. This excludes any setup costs or bank fees as well. 


It's nice to have people try and help you, but sometimes financial advice from a position of kindness may be more harm than good.


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## ParleVouFrancois (27 November 2010)

I'm pretty sure Nioka just offered a list of shares that someone could feasibly make a decent return with little risk, with the intention that you'd only choose one, obviously the brokerage would be too large a percentage to feasibly invest into 10 shares.


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## prawn_86 (27 November 2010)

Well done on this thread Nioka.

In fact when i first started i started with 1k and 1 stock. Just something to give myself 'skin in the game' as you learn a lot faster when your own cash is on the line.

Its amazing how many posters still seem to think that 1k is not enough to start with. Of course it is, but it is only a *start*, your not going to get rich from it obviously.


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## nioka (27 November 2010)

ParleVouFrancois said:


> I'm pretty sure Nioka just offered a list of shares that someone could feasibly make a decent return with little risk, with the intention that you'd only choose one, obviously the brokerage would be too large a percentage to feasibly invest into 10 shares.




Definitely. 



IB12 said:


> Well there are 10 stocks there you recommended.
> Now on commissions alone if someone were to trade that and own it, that would cost about $100. Double that if you trade with Comsec.
> Now on the return leg that would be another $100.
> 
> So before you've even done anything, and before you've even made your gains (or losses!) you're already down about 6-12%. This excludes any setup costs or bank fees as well.




A brokerage normally does not accept an order for less than $500 value so it would be hard to invest in 10 stocks with only $1,500. Any stock I pick to invest in I expect to make an average of 50% profit in the first year so brokerage, while expensive would not eat all the profit. As the portfolio builds brokerage becomes less and less important. Capital gains tax takes over that role. My project for this exercise will use/ has used a minimum of $1000 per stock. I plan to sell half of any stock that gets to a point over $2,000 and use the funds to get into a new stock until I hold around five individual stocks. That is to spread the risk, demonstrate that $1,000 is a good starting fund and make investing more interesting.I'd prefer to have $1,000 invested in each of five stocks than $5,000 in only one.

Even this exercise is interesting me as much as my normal investments.


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## exberliner1 (27 November 2010)

$1500 is ok to start with but I would recomend focusing on one sector and becoming knowledgable about it.

For example I focus entirely on the mining exploration small cap sector.

I prefer companies that are close to developping JORC resources or that are close to mining.

This allows the potential for accelerated gains (and losses) - it all depends how good your research is, both on the companies and the sector.

With $500 you could buy 3 small stakes in explorers probably $480 in each one after commission, if you have done your homework one or more of these 3 should produce gains over time.

$1500 is not really enough to either trade a lot or go for a dividend return so it is best to go all out for capital gains.

That,s what I did with my first investments in Australia back in 2005 - I bought Lihir gold at about $1.80 within 6 months it had more than doubled so I took my original stake back leaving me with a free carried holding in LHG and bought AUM (now CDU) which also went up. Again sold got my original stake back so by then I had a free holding in LHG and a free holding in CDU.

NB These are not recommendations for LHG or CDU I am referring to 2005 prices and movements not to today,s market.

My starting capital was more than $1500. I put all my cash into just one stock for the first few trades and was lucky enough to make the right call each time. 

The market has changed a bit since then so splitting between 3 stocks cuts the risk a bit today.

I would however suggest when a stock you hold doubles consider selling half and getting your original cash back to put somewhere else. That way if you are any good at research you will over time build a portfolio at no cost.

I started doing this back in 2005 and by the end of 2006 I held 9  free carried positions.

I had invested before 2005 so I was not a complete novice and did buy the options instead of the shares where they were available for leverage however the principal remains the same.

I hope that helps

EB


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## Wysiwyg (27 November 2010)

nioka said:


> Definitely.
> Any stock I pick to invest in I expect to make an average of 50% profit in the first year so brokerage, while expensive would not eat all the profit. As the portfolio builds brokerage becomes less and less important. Capital gains tax takes over that role. My project for this exercise will use/ has used a minimum of $1000 per stock. I plan to sell half of any stock that gets to a point over $2,000 and use the funds to get into a new stock until I hold around five individual stocks. That is to spread the risk, demonstrate that $1,000 is a good starting fund and make investing more interesting.I'd prefer to have $1,000 invested in each of five stocks than $5,000 in only one.
> 
> Even this exercise is interesting me as much as my normal investments.




This may be hard to swallow but what you post are suggestions on "punting" on a stock and hope for the best. I do see the word "investing" in the thread statement. We do encourage your participation in market punting though.


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## IB12 (27 November 2010)

This also may be hard to swallow, but I would think more likely than not, as you are starting out, that you will most likely lose money rather than make anything, especially with 1.5K starting base. 

You must be a big lurker though given your post count.


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## Wysiwyg (28 November 2010)

IB12 said:


> This also may be hard to swallow, but I would think more likely than not, as you are starting out, that you will most likely lose money rather than make anything, especially with 1.5K starting base.
> 
> You must be a big lurker though given your post count.



Yes it is a well trodden section of the path ... that of the beginning. As you well know.


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## burglar (28 November 2010)

exberliner1 said:


> The market has changed a bit since then so splitting between 3 stocks cuts the risk a bit today.
> EB




I agreed with most all of what you said; except this bit.

It goes completely against the grain. Now to succeed, you need to pick 3 very good 'uns. 

You did it a better way yourself, why recommend less to others!


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## exberliner1 (28 November 2010)

burglar .... yes I know I contradicted myself.

However there are greater uncertainties around today than in 2005 - 2006 so a bit of risk reduction over 3 stocks seemed to make sense in late 2010.

I must admit I would go for one stock today as well - but I have no understanding of the original poster's knowledge on sectors, markets etc... so was being safer.

But nice to see you agreed with my original strategy it gave me a silly gain in perentage terms. by end of 2006.

EB


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## burglar (28 November 2010)

exberliner1 said:


> ... I have no understanding of the original poster's knowledge on sectors, markets etc... so was being safer.
> 
> EB



EB,
The original poster, posted once. We don't know if (s)he came back to see the consternation (=debate) caused. 
No thankyou to nioka for keepin' us on topic, nothing. 

Nuntheless, other first-timers will come across this thread and enjoy!


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## burglar (28 November 2010)

Beachhead
1. the area that is the first objective of a military force landing on an enemy shore.
2. a secure initial position that has been gained and can be used for further advancement; foothold:

I've been mulling things over, to find the right word to use, for the inordinate *(or disproportionately large) risk we all take with our first investment!


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## prawn_86 (28 November 2010)

burglar said:


> for the inordinate *(or disproportionately large) risk we all take with our first investment!




Exactly.

Buying a home is even worse with regards to amount of leverage required, entry/exit fees etc. At least with 1500 into one stock, providing your not leveraged that is the max you can lose in a worst case scenario


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## burglar (28 November 2010)

prawn_86 said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Buying a home is even worse ...




You've just jogged my memory.
I invested in my first house in 1978.
Bought my first shares in 1980.
ECM East Coast 1,000 @ $0.19 plus $25 brokerage
... (for the nice man at the full-service telephone broker.)
Later that same year:
Sold ECM East Coast 1,000 @ $0.70 plus $35 brokerage.
Proceeds of sale went into a new front fence
for aforementioned property (value adding).

Lil' Johnny Howard was Minister for Housing around that time!


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## nioka (28 November 2010)

Wysiwyg said:


> This may be hard to swallow but what you post are suggestions on "punting" on a stock and hope for the best. I do see the word "investing" in the thread statement. We do encourage your participation in market punting though.




You are far from the truth. I do not gamble. I research carefully before I do make any investment. In a perfect world that would eliminate all risk. However the world isn't perfect and I do make mistakes. That is the reason to spread the risk. The job is to minimise that risk. 

I do not PUNT on the market. I invest real money with profiting in mind. While I only use money I can afford to lose I am a poor loser so I take all possible steps to avoid losing any, hence hedging the risks by holding a variety of stocks.

If I was a gambler I would have put everything I owned on SDL following the plane crash that took the lives of the board and senior management. It was obvious that the SP would crash as well. I had been researching that stock for some time but decided to wait for an entry closer to the time when they were at the all systems go stage. I bought SDL but stayed with all my other stock. I'm happy with what I have made there, could have made more if I was a gambler. I looked at SDL as an opportunistic investment. 

(I had an Uncle that was a very successful bookmaker. The only tip he ever gave me was "don't gamble". He did not consider himself a gambler. His customers were. His was a business based on balancing the odds in his favour so that he skimmed a little from each of his gambling customers regardless of which horse won.)


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## johenmo (28 November 2010)

nioka said:


> The original question was " IS IT WORTH INVESTING AS LITTLE AS $1500"
> 
> My example answered THAT question.
> 
> ...





You are right - it can be done.  Is it worth it?  Considering the market atm and if the level of experience/knowledge is low then I would consider the risk to be too high.  And I would spend some time saving and understanding.  But the camp will remain divided, I guess.  I agree with yr later post that says 5 x 1K positions is preferable to 1x5K.  And that's what I was alluding to.

One thing I WOULDN'T do is to spend it on a course.


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## exberliner1 (28 November 2010)

Agreed there is enough free info for new investors on ASF and HC and people like us who can offer real time and often contradictory solutions.

I am 46 and bought my first stocks when I was 15 and for a living I run the international division of one of Ukraine's oldest invstment banks.

Plus my entire super fund is invested in Australia.

And there are many others with more knowledge than me registered with this site.

So why pay for a course??

Just ask here...


EB


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## Burgs (29 November 2010)

As a first time poster on this forum (and a Moderator on a large sport based one) I would really like to thank nioka for seeing out the process in this thread.
As someone looking to start in shares from quite a low base this is exactly the type of answer I was after.
Yes, I know that more money would be great and that knowledge is great (have already spent around $200 on books), what the original poster (and I) wanted to know is how low could you start from, not what the best alternative to a low start was.
I now have a better feel for what can be achieved and what my minimum, rather than optimum, savings target needs to be to start being involved in this interesting and potentially rewarding field.

In answer to a few remarks about a first time poster coming back, from my experience on the sport based forum I Mod, I'd suggest that the poster either came back in the middle of the initial condescending off hand remarks before nioka kicked in and decided you could jam it, or simply found the answers required elsewhere.
Both happen regularly, I wouldn't go getting hung up about it.
I would suggest that in a "Beginners Lounge" that newbie’s aren't looking to be made to look foolish though.
I look forward to be involved on here in the future but am interested as to how my feedback will be received.


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## burglar (29 November 2010)

Burgs,
Welcome to ASF!



Burgs said:


> As someone looking to start in shares from quite a low base this is exactly the type of answer I was after.




Great, thankyou!~ 



Burgs said:


> ... wanted to know is how low could you start from, not what the best alternative to a low start was.
> I now have a better feel for what can be achieved and what my minimum, rather than optimum, savings target needs to be to start being involved in this interesting and potentially rewarding field.




Couldn't agree more!
Hooray... Someone gets it! 



Burgs said:


> I'd suggest that the poster either came back in the middle of the initial condescending off hand remarks before nioka kicked in and decided you could jam it, or simply found the answers required elsewhere.
> Both happen regularly, I wouldn't go getting hung up about it.




Not hung up, just felt like:

1. I was talking to myself !
2. Other posters should know?

That's all.


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## nioka (15 December 2010)

Update;

Having sold some EKA and bought some TXN 

15/11/2010  WB5487XXXX  Buy  TXN  1,715   0.585  
15/11/2010  WB5487XXXX  Sell  EKA  3,170    0.335 

the holding now;

4000 EKA @ 0.325  = $1,300
1,715 TXN @ 0.555 = $943.25

Value $2,243.25.

 Not a lot of financial progress lately, both stocks are down on a month ago but we have spread the risk over two stocks. EKA seems poised for a burst and TXN has good prospects in the short term with fraccing of their first well and production testing expected to start in the next day or two. The stage is set for a good new year.

The plan ahead, providing one of the current two perform as expected is to sell half of any stock that exceeds $2,000 in value and bring in a third one. The one in mind at this stage is NTU.


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## nioka (17 December 2010)

Ended the week up a little more with EKA now $0.335 and TXN $0.60. This makes the value $2361. The investment is now showing a 57% return in less than 6 months. Plenty of room left for more gains in my opinion.


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## Greedy_Kev (17 December 2010)

asfpep said:


> Hello,
> 
> Id like to start buying shares but dont have the big bucks to do so. Is it possible to start with $500 - $1500?
> 
> ...




Humm it's riskier when u have less to play with unless, espcially if u are buying the more expensive shares, 

like if u were buying a share that was $50 each then u would only have 10-15 shares and with comsec trading u need to make a minimum of $40 just to BREAK EVEN thus each share needs to make $4.

u also lose the flexiblility of buying in portion.

i think u should stay away from shares untill u got more money or go to a manage fund which has low fees, otherwise the fees will eat u alive. 

please note that interms of % gain to break even will be the same for all shares, but likeliness of large % gain in larger companies in the short term is unlikely.


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## Julia (17 December 2010)

Greedy_Kev said:


> Humm it's riskier when u have less to play with unless, espcially if u are buying the more expensive shares,



Why do you say this?  The stability of a stock has little to do with the actual dollar value of each share.



> like if u were buying a share that was $50 each then u would only have 10-15 shares and with comsec trading u need to make a minimum of $40 just to BREAK EVEN thus each share needs to make $4.



You are ignoring the fact that higher priced shares usually move in greater amounts.  The only thing that matters is the % increase/decrease.




> u also lose the flexiblility of buying in portion.



What does this mean?  "Buying in portion"???





> i think u should stay away from shares untill u got more money or go to a manage fund which has low fees, otherwise the fees will eat u alive.



What about the fees that are charged on managed funds, many of which have failed to even equate to the index?  Even if they lose the customer money, they still extract their fees.

I'd absolutely contradict this suggestion.



> please note that interms of % gain to break even will be the same for all shares, but likeliness of large % gain in larger companies in the short term is unlikely.



What are 'interms'?
On what basis do you assert that large % gain in larger companies in the short term is unlikely?


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## noirua (18 December 2010)

It all depends if you can get another $1,500 quickly or not and if it matters much to you if you lose some of it. If you can't get another $1,500 quickly or losing some matters to you, "steer clear of anything stock market related".

If losing some doesn't matter much and you want a number of shares, then punt on the oil and mining sector - not advice of course, just ramblings of noi.

I'm still suffering from shock about all these changes on ASF; I just can't believe it.


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## nioka (31 December 2010)

New Years Eve is probably a good time to review how this exercise has ended the year.

The EKA 4000 @ 0.335 = $1340
The TXN 1715 @ 0.675 = $1158
                 total value = $2698.

Conclusion. Definitely worth starting with only $1500. 

However it is not without some risk. Not all the stocks I hold have had a positive result over the same period. Some stocks I hold have done much much better. With a small investment it is not possible to spread the risk so it is better to have a well researched stock that shows probable gains with little risk rather that possible gains with greater risk.

I'll continue during 2011 with the aim still to add other stocks so that we end up with the risk spread over 5 different stocks. When the 5th is chosen the portfolio will be worth $5000 minimum and No 5 will be a speculator.

Happy and prosperous New Year to all.


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## IB12 (31 December 2010)

nioka said:


> New Years Eve is probably a good time to review how this exercise has ended the year.
> 
> The EKA 4000 @ 0.335 = $1340
> The TXN 1715 @ 0.675 = $1158
> total value = $2698.




My Christmas presents shopping was more than $698.


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## againsthegrain (31 December 2010)

Xmas presents what a waste of money lol they all just get returned on boxing day


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## nioka (31 December 2010)

IB12 said:


> My Christmas presents shopping was more than $698.




Great.Bully for you. However if you had have $1500 saved up for Xmas earlier in the year and you put it in the bank you would have had about $1550 to spend on presents. Had you invested it then you would have had $2698 to spend. 

I doubt that the original request "is it worth while investing only $1500" really had xmas presents in mind but rather along term savings through investing plan and it was probably by someone that wouldn't have had a lot of money to spend on Xmas presents.


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## burglar (11 January 2011)

IB12 said:


> My Christmas presents shopping was more than $698.




I thought we were talking 'bout "Compounding the gain" not spending it!


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## nioka (3 March 2011)

nioka said:


> New Years Eve is probably a good time to review how this exercise has ended the year.
> 
> The EKA 4000 @ 0.335 = $1340
> The TXN 1715 @ 0.675 = $1158
> ...




Update and review.     4000 EKA @ 0.385  $1540
                              1715 TXN @ 0.795  $1363
                                  total value now  $2903.

So since July 5th we are coming close to doubling the money in 8 months. Plenty of upside with both of these stocks so I see no reason for any change yet.

From little things big things grow. If you never sow seed you never reap a crop.

I wonder what happened to the originator of this thread!.


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## nioka (4 March 2011)

nioka said:


> Update and review.     4000 EKA @ 0.385  $1540
> 1715 TXN @ 0.795  $1363
> total value now  $2903.
> 
> ...




Posted the above a day too early. We have, on todays quotes, passed the 100% landmark. 
             EKA  4000 @ 41c plus 1715 TXN @ 85c = $3098.


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## burglar (7 March 2011)

nioka said:


> ... passed the 100% landmark. ...




Well Done! 
Keep up the postings!!


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## mytoniix (21 March 2011)

any updates?


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## nioka (21 March 2011)

mytoniix said:


> any updates?




Interesting stage. EKA down 2c today on the previous calculation for value.

TXN. An SPP gives all holders a chance to buy up to $15,000 of new shares at 65c, 10c cheaper than the current price. I have to assume that the investor with the original $1500 can't afford to take up the full offer. It is therefore a case of sell the EKA and the TXN, get as much as possible and buy back TXN at 65c with the proceeds.  The record date for the SPP has passed so we qualify even if we sell.

There was the opportunity for more profitable purchases if funds could be obtained. My policy is not to borrow for investing so I will restrict what we can do to the current funds being used.

Watch this space.


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## Pemburu (29 March 2011)

Hello all, 

Complete virgin trader here 
Have been following this thread for some time now whilst also reading up on share trading related material. Firstly kudos to Nioka for demonstrating to people like me that it can be done. Im sure your experience gave u the foundations for you to make informed decisions, which has contributed to the positive gains.

Im in my mid 20s, i know many people like myself that have small amounts of disposable income with absolutely no idea or knowledge of what to do with it (Personal finance studies in the Australian education system really suck imo).

For nooobies like myself who dont have this experience to draw on, informed 
posters on here and other sites have been invaluable, however i also am beginning to believe that whilst informing oneself is good, i will not accelerate my learning by continually reading books. 
So today i made the decision its about time i jump in the deep end (or more realistically, dip my toe into the baby pool). Have to get started somewhere!

I have a very rough trading plan in mind, im sure it will evolve with time and experience. I will attempt to use a hybrid blend of F/A and T/A mixed with alot of instinct to select one stock that has potential to grow. Limited criteria for selection include
-a share price >20c (to maximise exposure to price movement and potential returns)
-a company that has impending announcements with the assumption (hope!) that these announcements will result in positive movement. 

Will be purchasing when i find the right company to back.

I like the idea of closing for profit and reinvesting that profit into another company to spread risk so i will do that should my initial choice be profitable.

Just thought id share this with the forum as my mindset has now changed from researcher to wannabe active participant so im now looking at information with a different eye.

Exciting times ahead!

Cheers


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## nioka (29 March 2011)

Pemburu,

Welcome to the real world. Be carefull, be patient and hopefully successful.


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## LiL_JaSoN (29 March 2011)

Pemburu,

I was in the same situation as you, im now 21 and have a portfolio of shares.

give the simulator games ago such as the ASX game or the stockwatch game.


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## isplicer (29 March 2011)

In pretty much the same boat as you Pemburu =). All the very best of luck, and keep on soaking up the huge amount of knowledge/literature that's available to us on this forum (and on the internet, and the library).


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## Julia (29 March 2011)

Pemburu said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Complete virgin trader here
> Have been following this thread for some time now whilst also reading up on share trading related material. Firstly kudos to Nioka for demonstrating to people like me that it can be done. Im sure your experience gave u the foundations for you to make informed decisions, which has contributed to the positive gains.



Bear in mind that Nioka is a very experienced investor and that you may not necessarily find it so simple to replicate his profitability.



> I have a very rough trading plan in mind, im sure it will evolve with time and experience. I will attempt to use a hybrid blend of F/A and T/A mixed with alot of instinct to select one stock that has potential to grow. Limited criteria for selection include
> -a share price >20c (to maximise exposure to price movement and potential returns)
> -a company that has impending announcements with the assumption (hope!) that these announcements will result in positive movement.



And what is your plan if the company brings out instead a negative announcement?
Say this happens and the SP suddenly falls below your buy in price?
What are you going to do?
Do you still believe in this supa dupa company so strongly that you will, like many before you, hold because you think its fundamentals are excellent?
Or will you be disciplined enough to get out with a minimal level of loss?

Imo, until you have answers to these questions you shouldn't be risking your money.




> Will be purchasing when i find the right company to back.



Will you share this excellent company with us when you find it?


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## Assasin (29 March 2011)

Pemburu,
           without giving advice, I'd start your research with the 2 stocks Noika is working with here.
   Good Luck.


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## nioka (30 March 2011)

Update.
 Sold the existing TXN @ 80c today, net yield $1343.05. Add to the EKA return of $1550.05 last week. This will purchase 4441 TXN which are now @80c (as compared to the SPP price of 65c). Value will be $3552.80. When the TXN are available to trade I will sell off TXN to the value of $2000 and invest in two other stocks for $1000 each.


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## stacks (30 March 2011)

nioka said:


> Update.
> Sold the existing TXN @ 80c today, net yield $1343.05. Add to the EKA return of $1550.05 last week. This will purchase 4441 TXN which are now @80c (as compared to the SPP price of 65c). Value will be $3552.80. When the TXN are available to trade I will sell off TXN to the value of $2000 and invest in two other stocks for $1000 each.




Really enjoyed this thread, as I'm also in the beginners boat. Been vry interesting following your trades nioka.

One question though, prob a silly one, but why would you sell TXN @ 80c today, then buy back @80c once you have combined with EKA profits? 

Why wouldnt you just keep the TXN shares then buy extra with EKA profits?


----------



## nioka (30 March 2011)

stacks said:


> One question though, prob a silly one, but why would you sell TXN @ 80c today, then buy back @80c once you have combined with EKA profits? QUOTE]
> 
> The buy back is at 65c, the company offered existing shareholders the opportunity to subscribe to a Share issue at 65c up to a value of $15,000. As I stated earlier I have to assume that this investment does have no extra capital to invest so will sell/have sold the current holding to fund a partial buy of the issue. SPP's regularly come up for developing companies as they require more capital and are often issued to current shareholders at a discount. In this case the new capital doesnt dilute the existing value because the funds are being used to expand the companies leases and activity.


----------



## stacks (30 March 2011)

Right, gotcha, thanks


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## WonkeyDonkey (31 March 2011)

Have just read through the whole thread. 
Big thank you to nioka for actually putting up his hard earned to demonstrate that it is possible. I too am a newbie who has just decided to invest and this thread was one that helped me make that decision.
Cheers


----------



## youngone (31 March 2011)

Have also just read the whole thread. Thanks Noika.


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## luckyforteja (6 April 2011)

Have just read the whole thread. 
It is really unbelievable to see someone actually invest so much time, effort and his money to prove that you can start investing with $1500/-

This thread has been very educational.

I have a question for you on your quote



> I agree with yr later post that says 5 x 1K positions is preferable to 1x5K




It makes sense that you are spreading your risk across 5 different stocks and I completely agree with you. What do you think about taking 1k (2k or 3k based on your financial position) position on a stock per month than investing 5k(10k or 15 k) at once? 

You might miss some opportunities but you are learning and investing slowly. This makes more sense to me rather than saving 1k(2k or 3k based on your financial position) for 5 months and invest all at once. At the end of 5 months you still end up with 5 positions.

Any thoughts ?

Cheers,
Sri


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## nioka (12 April 2011)

nioka said:


> Update.
> Sold the existing TXN @ 80c today, net yield $1343.05. Add to the EKA return of $1550.05 last week. This will purchase 4441 TXN which are now @80c (as compared to the SPP price of 65c). Value will be $3552.80. When the TXN are available to trade I will sell off TXN to the value of $2000 and invest in two other stocks for $1000 each.




Todays announcement is that the TXN SPP has been filled and all applications will be granted 100%. That means that this account will now have 4441 TXN shares which today look like trading at 93c. Value now $4130. I expect TXN to reach $1 in the near future so will put 2041 TXN for sale at $1 and buy something else to spread the risk. At this stage it is a proposition , in my opinion, to buy back some EKA that were sold to fund the purchase of the TXN and take advantage of the SPP.


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## youngone (12 April 2011)

So this is what a trading plan is? 

This is a new level of investment strategy. My current trading plan has been to BUY and HOLD like any newbies around this forum. Thanks Nokia for demonstrating what it is that makes you a successful investor. 

I can see that you actively read the companies announcements, in particularly, taking advantages of every SPP. What basic information do you look for to determine that the price may be heading $1 soon?


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## burglar (12 April 2011)

luckyforteja said:


> ...You might miss some opportunities but you are learning and investing slowly. This makes more sense to me rather than saving 1k(2k or 3k based on your financial position) for 5 months and invest all at once. At the end of 5 months you still end up with 5 positions.
> 
> Any thoughts ?
> 
> ...




When I got serious, I put in one trade and waited to see how it went, ...
When it went well, I added another.
It's a good a way to start.

During a Bull Market my answer would be different. 
"Anyone can be a hero in a Bull Market!"


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## nioka (12 April 2011)

youngone said:


> So this is what a trading plan is?
> 
> This is a new level of investment strategy. My current trading plan has been to BUY and HOLD like any newbies around this forum. Thanks Nokia for demonstrating what it is that makes you a successful investor.
> 
> I can see that you actively read the companies announcements, in particularly, taking advantages of every SPP. What basic information do you look for to determine that the price may be heading $1 soon?




If you follow the presentations put out on the company website you will see that this company is growing its asset through proving an increase in productivity. The companies fundamentals no matter which way you look at them are all positive. They have moved from being a prospector to being a producer. Analysts reports suggest target prices well over $1. Prices though are relative. If the price falls then it is probable that the share I want to buy will fall in proportion so there will still be an opportunity to get value in a sell and buy something else senario.

The immediate goal of taking advantage of the SPP has been achieved. The goal now is to trade some TNZ for another stock to spread the risk. That has always been the "grand plan". Remember the plan was to end up with a minimum of 5 stocks.


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## nioka (28 April 2011)

nioka said:


> Todays announcement is that the TXN SPP has been filled and all applications will be granted 100%. That means that this account will now have 4441 TXN shares which today look like trading at 93c. Value now $4130. I expect TXN to reach $1 in the near future so will put 2041 TXN for sale at $1 and buy something else to spread the risk. At this stage it is a proposition , in my opinion, to buy back some EKA that were sold to fund the purchase of the TXN and take advantage of the SPP.




Not good news but here is an update.

Because of the current market conditions I have decided to sell some TXN and buy EKA now rather than wait until TXN reaches $1. Probably when TXN reaches the $1 EKA will not still be available at 33c. 

So now it is 4000 EKA @ 33c and 2700 TXN 79c value $3433. We have lost some ground on both of these but have increased our share numbers. I'm confident that the market correction for these stocks is ending and look forward to increasing values that will allow some diversification in the near future.

We are still ahead of where we were before the TXN SPP so at least participating in the SPP has more than offset any fall in the market.


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## Glen48 (28 April 2011)

Sell all and buy some silver and some in June


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## tothemax6 (28 April 2011)

Glen48 said:


> Sell all and buy some silver



Everyone is saying 'buy some silver', hence its a bad idea.


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## warennie (29 April 2011)

Keep in mind the brokerage you will pay. If you buy $500 (minimum share purchase via commsec) worth of shares, you will pay a minimum of $20 on the purchase and $20 of the sale. So to recoup the cost of brokerage your investment will need to yield $40 which is a 8% increase... 

But getting your foot in the door is a great step to make at any cost.


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## youngone (12 May 2011)

nioka said:


> Not good news but here is an update.
> 
> Because of the current market conditions I have decided to sell some TXN and buy EKA now rather than wait until TXN reaches $1. Probably when TXN reaches the $1 EKA will not still be available at 33c.
> 
> So now it is 4000 EKA @ 33c and 2700 TXN 79c value $3433. .




Please dont stop Nokia. With the current roller coaster market, is there anything you can do to protect your shares or minimize the risk.. 

EKA today is at 30c and TXN 73c. 

This means for the past month, we haven't had any growth but also had lose out our shares price. Instead of buy and hold, for the purpose of the excercise, would or should you be selling out and come in when the market is right?


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## nioka (12 May 2011)

youngone said:


> Please dont stop Nokia. With the current roller coaster market, is there anything you can do to protect your shares or minimize the risk..
> 
> EKA today is at 30c and TXN 73c.
> 
> This means for the past month, we haven't had any growth but also had lose out our shares price. Instead of buy and hold, for the purpose of the excercise, would or should you be selling out and come in when the market is right?




Nothing goes up in a straight line. I'm prepared to sit and wait at this stage. The value today is not the important thing. We have increased our share numbers and both stocks still have the potential for early gains. It is a time to have patience while still being prepared to sell and buy another stock if the fundamentals change. In the past I have often sold too soon and missed out on the gains that came soon after. We are still well ahead. To sell out now would be to sell at what I consider the bottom. This is a time to buy these stocks, not a time to sell them. Dyor. this is opinion not advice.


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## IB12 (30 May 2011)

nioka said:


> Nothing goes up in a straight line. I'm prepared to sit and wait at this stage. The value today is not the important thing. *We have increased our share numbers and both stocks still have the potential for early gains.* It is a time to have patience while still being prepared to sell and buy another stock if the fundamentals change. In the past I have often sold too soon and missed out on the gains that came soon after. We are still well ahead. To sell out now would be to sell at what I consider the bottom. This is a time to buy these stocks, not a time to sell them. Dyor. *this is opinion not advice*.




I would think that you are taking on undue risk by increasing your concentration in the above two stocks to which you already own. I think you would be better off reducing your exposure, either to cash in the bank or something you have a better understanding of, especially as it appears that you don't have any clue what you are actually investing in. One of the stocks which you are recommending doesn't even have any earnings whose stock price is predicated on future developments occurring of which you have no control over nor any idea of its probable outcome. Add to that we are at the upper end of the commodities cycle, with commodity IPOs happening all over the place, and your whole portfolio is concentrated in one sub-sector of a particular industry of an entire market.

Threads like these are illustrative of why forums like these strictly prohibit any financial advice, especially to people starting out. 
On the other hand it can also be illustrative of potential risk for the new investor and why beginning investors should first seek out educational material, read and *learn* as much as they can, as opposed to diving head first with real money, especially large sums.


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## ParleVouFrancois (30 May 2011)

No risk no reward!

I don't rate TXN because I'm not all that familiar with the geology of the area they operate in, but EKA (same as AUT) is in what is pretty much is the prime area of the Eagle Ford Shale. Thus it is a rather reliable producer of gas and condensate.


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## nioka (30 May 2011)

IB12 said:


> I would think that you are taking on undue risk by increasing your concentration in the above two stocks to which you already own. I think you would be better off reducing your exposure, either to cash in the bank or something you have a better understanding of, especially as it appears that you don't have any clue what you are actually investing in. One of the stocks which you are recommending doesn't even have any earnings whose stock price is predicated on future developments occurring of which you have no control over nor any idea of its probable outcome. Add to that we are at the upper end of the commodities cycle, with commodity IPOs happening all over the place, and your whole portfolio is concentrated in one sub-sector of a particular industry of an entire market.
> 
> Threads like these are illustrative of why forums like these strictly prohibit any financial advice, especially to people starting out.
> On the other hand it can also be illustrative of potential risk for the new investor and why beginning investors should first seek out educational material, read and *learn* as much as they can, as opposed to diving head first with real money, especially large sums.




You are right and if you read back posts you will see that there is an intention to spread the funds over five stocks as soon as possible. There is a good reason why this hasn't happened to date. Both the current stocks are undervalued at this stage and have better potential for short term gains. This is proven with a rise in value of both today and late last week. In my "own" account I bought EKA last week and sold some today to get another 10,000 "freebies". 

In the near future I will sell some of one or both of EKA and/or TXN and buy the third which will not be an "oiler" but only to spread the risk as I believe that both the current stocks have plenty of upside yet.

This exercise is an example using real trades to point out that, yes, $1500 is sufficient capital to start investing. No one should take it in any way that it is advice to buy those particular stocks. I doubt though that I would attempt an exercise that picked stocks in which I didn't personally have confidence. 

I dont claim to always be right and my other exercise to turn $5000 into $50,000 in two years is not doing so hot at this stage. You are right to point out the dangers in following forum chat. I can also point out the danger in following quite a few of the EXPERT advisers. People should do their own research and only make personally informed decisions.


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## burglar (30 May 2011)

IB12 said:


> ... diving head first with real money, especially large sums.



Didn't see were nioka dived in head first??? and it's not a particularly large sum!
In fact, that is the whole point of the thread!!



Keep up the good work!


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## IB12 (7 August 2011)

It's fun to revisit these threads after a while.
I would suggest that if you're still holding onto these two stocks, that you should get out whilst you still can. 
There will be more fresh losses to come, especially after the US credit rating downgrade. 
Fact of the matter is, the real solution is to let these sovereigns and financial institutions that have lent to these sovereigns ... fail. That is the best 'market based' solution.
But that will never happen, because politicians would never allow it. 
In the meantime they are propping up the markets with a lot of artificial stimulus, and thus you're seeing huge capital flows into commodities and emerging markets. 

I would seek safe havens in the short term (fixed income, cash, gold etc), and maybe equities in the long term. 
Nonetheless, more losses to come, if you're leveraged right now in these two stocks you're in the wrong place.


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## burglar (12 December 2011)

Time for an update?


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## nioka (15 February 2012)

youngone said:


> Please dont stop Nokia. With the current roller coaster market, is there anything you can do to protect your shares or minimize the risk..
> 
> EKA today is at 30c and TXN 73c.
> 
> This means for the past month, we haven't had any growth but also had lose out our shares price. Instead of buy and hold, for the purpose of the excercise, would or should you be selling out and come in when the market is right?




I havent forgotten this one. In hindsight it would have been better to sell and reenter at some of the lows over recent months. My decision was to ride this out and hold. I saw no problem with a good long term result. Todays value is still down on the peak but still stands at $3073.  I'm expecting progress from here on and continue to hold both these in my portfolio. I have not been trading many stocks lately, been tied up in other pursuits.


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## nioka (9 May 2012)

Update.

Because EKA is the subject of a takeover offer it is/was necessary to update this project. EKA has been sold and the funds used to purchase 2004 LYC. The TXN are still held hoping for a takeover bid there also. Todays value now $3496. 

Disappointing that it is not $10,000 by now but the going has been tough this last year. Now is not the time to exit as I see it. With hindsight I would have made different choices. Anyone have a proven crystal ball for sale?


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## burglar (9 May 2012)

nioka said:


> ... Anyone have a proven crystal ball for sale?




http://www.bing.com/search?q=Crystal+Balls+for+Sale&FORM=QSRE4

:


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## Steve C (5 July 2012)

Nioka,

Thank you for this insightful thread. I am in my mid 20's and really interested in the stock market, trying to learn everything I can. Unfortuntely due to buying my first house I have very little in the way of free capital.
This thread has shown me that you can start small and make something of it.

Thanks again,

Steve


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## prawn_86 (5 July 2012)

Steve C said:


> Nioka,
> 
> Thank you for this insightful thread. I am in my mid 20's and really interested in the stock market, trying to learn everything I can. Unfortuntely due to buying my first house I have very little in the way of free capital.
> This thread has shown me that you can start small and make something of it.
> ...




Remember if you have a loan, from a strictly financial perspective, unless you can generate a rutrn after tax greater than the interest rate you are paying on your loan, you are better off just paying the loan off.

The stock market will always be there when you are debt free...


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## Steve C (5 July 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> Remember if you have a loan, from a strictly financial perspective, unless you can generate a rutrn after tax greater than the interest rate you are paying on your loan, you are better off just paying the loan off.
> 
> The stock market will always be there when you are debt free...




I agree- but unfortuntely I won't be debt free till I am at least 40, 45 with the size of an average mortgage these days. I am keen to play with $1000 -1500, I have begun reading and learning everything I can I just feel in a few months it will be time to get into the drivers seat and have a go.

Cheers for your post though, you are right, financially speaking my little venture will most likely put me backwards.


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## prawn_86 (5 July 2012)

Steve C said:


> Cheers for your post though, you are right, financially speaking my little venture will most likely put me backwards.




One thing my old man told me when i was starting:

As long as it is money you can afford to lose, then if it is just 1 - 2k, have some fun and learn a bit, treat it as a lesson, but dont expect grand returns.

Good luck!


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## scottw33 (9 November 2012)

nioka said:


> Update.
> 
> Because EKA is the subject of a takeover offer it is/was necessary to update this project. EKA has been sold and the funds used to purchase 2004 LYC. The TXN are still held hoping for a takeover bid there also. Todays value now $3496.
> 
> Disappointing that it is not $10,000 by now but the going has been tough this last year. Now is not the time to exit as I see it. With hindsight I would have made different choices. Anyone have a proven crystal ball for sale?




Curious to know what your outcome was with TXN, nioka? I'm new to the forum and just read through this thread over the past few days - found it very interesting! Would love to know if there are any updates? Especially seeing that TXN is sitting at 0.355 right now, and was at 0.58 on 9 May 2012.


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