# Trading The SPI (Open)



## Bronte

It is often quoted that the SPI is _*"Opened by amateurs, closed by professionals"
*_
My intention is to use this thread as a place for preopen SPI discussion.

Any / all market calls will be made *before* the SPI opens. 09:49:30

A maximum Stoploss of eight points will be used, at all times.

Only the exits will be live.    

All SPI traders are welcome to post.

Please enjoy......


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## Bronte

NYSE Dow Jones Finished up 193 + 1.33 %
SPI Sycom 5248 H  Closed at 5239
Target 5240

Double Top 5237  5248
Gap to close 5217 High
Directional Day due......

Ideal position for my stoploss above Sycom High
*Sell 5241 Limit*
Looking for Breakeven asap.
Good luck SPI traders.


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## Bronte

Opened Low  5230
Daily Double Top now in place:   5237  5237
Intraday Triple Top in place:       5236  5237  5235
Sell 5241 LMT order cancelled.


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## Caveroute

Bronte said:


> Opened Low  5230
> Daily Double Top now in place:   5237  5237
> Intraday Triple Top in place:       5236  5237  5235
> Sell 5241 LMT order cancelled.





Hi Bronte, interesting thread. I have a few questions, if you don't mind - 

Were you second guessing a reversal at the after hours high - 5248, hence your limit entry at 5241 with an 8 tick stop ?

Where did 5237 come from - 24 Jan, RTH high, and why this particular high - there are several contenders ?

What was the logic behind the statement - directional day due ?

Why did the daily DT, intraday triple top nullify your earlier view ?

Thanks .......


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## Bronte

Caveroute said:


> Hi Bronte, interesting thread. I have a few questions, if you don't mind - *OK*
> 
> Were you second guessing a reversal at the after hours high - 5248, hence your limit entry at 5241 with an 8 tick stop ? *Yes*
> 
> Where did 5237 come from - 24 Jan, RTH high, and why this particular high - there are several contenders ?
> *24th Jan High*
> 
> What was the logic behind the statement - directional day due ? *A run away train expected *
> 
> Why did the daily DT, intraday triple top nullify your earlier view ?  *Not sure what you mean here Cav ?*
> 
> Thanks .......




5239 High so far
Do you trade the SPI Cav ?


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## Caveroute

Bronte said:


> 5239 High so far
> Do you trade the SPI Cav ?




Hi -

I was expecting some action today, but not a lot so far !!

Thanks for the response, my last question was really asking why you cancelled your limit order based on what you had seen from the open today.

Yep, I trade the SPI - seems a lot of people don't like to - not sure why. 

It can be sluggish, but so can all markets, I usually stop around noon, as after 1pm things can quieten down a lot.


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## Bronte

Welcome aboard Caveroute, great to have you here. 

Yes, the train leaves the station every day.....
We have not been aboard a run away for a while now.

I am just concentrating on 'Trading the SPI' open here on this thread.
That is why I cancelled.....this open trade was over.

Twenty years of Trading the SPI


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## CanOz

Caveroute said:


> Hi -
> 
> I was expecting some action today, but not a lot so far !!
> 
> Thanks for the response, my last question was really asking why you cancelled your limit order based on what you had seen from the open today.
> 
> Yep, I trade the SPI - seems a lot of people don't like to - not sure why.
> 
> It can be sluggish, but so can all markets, I usually stop around noon, as after 1pm things can quieten down a lot.




I think TH was saying its full of arb bots, so rather than trade a proxy why trade the markets they're arbing it against, assuming the HHI, HSI...the China link maybe.


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## Bronte

Bronte said:


> NYSE Dow Jones Finished up 193 + 1.33 %
> SPI Sycom 5248 H  Closed at 5239
> Target 5240
> 
> Double Top 5237  5248
> Gap to close 5217 High
> Directional Day due......
> 
> Ideal position for my stoploss above Sycom High
> *Sell 5241 Limit*
> Looking for Breakeven asap.
> Good luck SPI traders.



5241 Sell cancelled.
5239 was the High
5217 Gap close Low
22 point Range Day.


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## Caveroute

CanOz said:


> I think TH was saying its full of arb bots, so rather than trade a proxy why trade the markets they're arbing it against, assuming the HHI, HSI...the China link maybe.




Yes, ok, but there are bots everywhere you look - I read somewhere that 90%+ of trading is done by bots.

If it looks like a futures market and trades like a futures market, is there a problem ?


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## Caveroute

Bronte said:


> 5241 Sell cancelled.
> 5239 was the High
> 5217 Gap close Low
> 22 point Range Day.




So whats the strategy Bronte  - try and pick up the opening reversal, stop to b/e and run with it all day ?


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## CanOz

Caveroute said:


> Yes, ok, but there are bots everywhere you look - I read somewhere that 90%+ of trading is done by bots.
> 
> If it looks like a futures market and trades like a futures market, is there a problem ?




Algorithms are on the decline according to Bloomberg and many other articles posted here in the last 12 months...

Maybe TH can explain why its not a great market to trade anymore and why all the prop abandoned it years ago...


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## Caveroute

CanOz said:


> Algorithms are on the decline according to Bloomberg and many other articles posted here in the last 12 months...
> 
> Maybe TH can explain why its not a great market to trade anymore and why all the prop abandoned it years ago...




Ok, but's that's HFT stuff - maybe it extends into other areas I'm not sure. But i'd be really surprise if market computer modelling in general, was in decline.

Did you look at the bond market Kid is trying to trade, a saw tooth wave form,if props trade that what's the problem with the SPI ?


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## Bronte

Caveroute said:


> So whats the strategy Bronte  - try and pick up the opening reversal, stop to b/e and run with it all day ?




My first market orders of the day have always been before the open.
Just in case the train makes a high speed exit out of the station 

The SPI is now 5241 interesting.........


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## CanOz

Caveroute said:


> Ok, but's that's HFT stuff - maybe it extends into other areas I'm not sure. But i'd be really surprise if market computer modelling in general, was in decline.
> 
> Did you look at the bond market Kid is trying to trade, a saw tooth wave form,if props trade that what's the problem with the SPI ?




Prop Firms generally trade bonds in a spread, the curve or against US treasuries etc..., not outright. Now i'm assuming you are talking about trading the SPI directionally outright, i'm saying most Prop Traders don't trade it outright directionally....As for why, we'll have to wait for a Prop Trader to make an appearance, or digg up some old posts...


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## kid hustlr

FWIW there's not THAT many algos in the SFE bonds. There's definitely some there but on a relative basis compared to other equity indices they are effectively nothing.

My understanding is its partly due to the fact you can't 'pinch the cash'. A lot of algo's in the equity futures just market make looking to arb the underlying. A lot harder to do in the aussie bond mkt.

Also as Can said there's a lot of algos which are linked to other markets and whilst there is some truth to that in our 10 year pit the front end of the curve there doesn't appear to many algos of that nature.

I'm not sure what TH knows about the SPI which makes it 'more untradeable' than other equity mkts however.


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## Bronte

NYSE Dow Jones Finished down -30.83
SPI Sycom 5290 H Closed at 5272
Target 5257

Double Top:  (5283/78)  5270
Possible Gap to close 5270 High
Directional Day due......

Ideal position for my stoploss above Sycom High
*Selling 5272 Limit*
Looking for Breakeven asap.
Good luck SPI traders.


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## Bronte

Opened  Low 5264
Daily Double Top now in place: 5273 High
Intraday Triple Top in place:    5274 5272 5273
Selling 5272 LMT Filled.  +2 Taken
SPI Open Trade over.


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## Valued

I regret not trading the SPI at open recently. You see US indices showing sure signs of weakness but the SPI will still go up the next day anyway a lot of the time because the market doesn't recognize the technical signals of weakness. I am going to start trading it more often. What happens if it opens up higher but since I know the overseas markets are weak I want to close out my positions but the SPI still rises giving you time to get out.  On the flip sides you need to make sure your stops can handle some up-thrusts if you turn around and go short or else you have to open your position midday. 

Disclaimer: This is written from the point of view of EOD trading.


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## baby_swallow

SPI pump and dump action.....
From open, market continued to rise, (the Big Boyz knew something we don't)...
Just after the release of the Employment figure (11:30am), it began to sell off and back to the opening levels.

(Everybody is expecting SPI to remain flat or retrace a bit after several days of up move, and also
the US market ended flat....) 
,


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## Bronte

Bronte said:


> NYSE Dow Jones Finished down -30.83
> SPI Sycom 5290 H Closed at 5272
> 
> *Target 5257*
> 
> Double Top:  (5283/78)  5270
> Possible Gap to close 5270 High
> Directional Day due......
> 
> Ideal position for my stoploss above Sycom High
> *Selling 5272 Limit*
> Looking for Breakeven asap.
> Good luck SPI traders.






baby_swallow said:


> SPI pump and dump action.....
> From open, market continued to rise, (the Big Boyz knew something we don't)...
> Just after the release of the Employment figure (11:30am), it began to sell off and back to the opening levels.
> 
> (Everybody is expecting SPI to remain flat or retrace a bit after several days of up move, and also
> the US market ended flat....)
> ,
> 
> View attachment 56794




Nice observations baby_swallow.

 Keep an eye on my Targets 5257
 They make great Support / Resistance areas
 As can be seen on the chart above.


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## Bronte

Bronte said:


> NYSE Dow Jones Finished up 193 + 1.33 %
> SPI Sycom 5248 H  Closed at 5239
> 
> *Target 5240*
> 
> Double Top 5237  5248
> Gap to close 5217 High
> Directional Day due......
> 
> Ideal position for my stoploss above Sycom High
> *Sell 5241 Limit*
> Looking for Breakeven asap.
> Good luck SPI traders.




Target 5240 Yesterday's Resistance

5237 High 5239 High 5241 High


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## Bronte

Good morning SPI traders and 'Happy Valentines Day' artyman:

NYSE Dow Jones Finished up +64 points.
SPI Sycom 5310 H Closed at 5296
Target 5275

Double Top 5310  5310 (Sycom)
Gap to close:  5287 High
Directional Day due......

Ideal position for my stoploss above Sycom High.
Sell 5298 Limit
Looking for Breakeven asap.
Good luck SPI traders.  
Extra care required today.  :birthday:


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## Bronte

Bronte said:


> Good morning SPI traders and 'Happy Valentines Day' artyman:
> 
> NYSE Dow Jones Finished up +64 points.
> SPI Sycom 5310 H Closed at 5296
> Target 5275
> 
> Double Top 5310  5310 (Sycom)
> Gap to close:  5287 High
> Directional Day due......
> 
> Ideal position for my stoploss above Sycom High.
> *Sell 5298 Limit*
> Looking for Breakeven asap.
> Good luck SPI traders.
> Extra care required today.  :birthday:




*Sold SPI Open 5300
+8 taken*


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## baby_swallow

Bronte said:


> *Sold SPI Open 5300
> +8 taken*




Good trading Bronte....ur on fire!!!
My gut feeling is levels 5278 and 5273 will be tested today....


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## Bronte

baby_swallow said:


> Good trading Bronte....ur on fire!!!
> My gut feeling is levels 5278 and 5273 will be tested today....





Thank you.

The Gap very quickly closed this morning.  5287 
My Target 5275 would be a great place to take profit.
5279 Low is a 22 point Range......care required here.


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## Bronte

Bronte said:


> Thank you.
> 
> The Gap very quickly closed this morning.  5287
> My Target 5275 would be a great place to take profit.
> *5279 Low* is a 22 point Range......care required here.



5279 has Supported the SPI
We are now hovering around the 50% PullBack point 5290
Good Luck all gtg.......


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## baby_swallow

Bronte said:


> 5279 has Supported the SPI
> We are now hovering around the 50% PullBack point 5290
> Good Luck all gtg.......




Must be reponding to the Nikkei open


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## Caveroute

baby_swallow said:


> Must be reponding to the Nikkei open




Maybe, but as an observation it's a measured move off the ETH high, to a tick, if you believe in that sort of stuff ....


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## Bronte

Bronte said:


> It is often quoted that the SPI is _*"Opened by amateurs, closed by professionals"
> *_
> My intention is to use this thread as a place for preopen SPI discussion.
> 
> Any / all market calls will be made *before* the SPI opens. 09:49:30
> 
> A maximum Stoploss of eight points will be used, at all times.
> 
> Only the exits will be live.
> 
> All SPI traders are welcome to post.
> 
> Please enjoy......




We hope some members have enjoyed this thread so far...

Please let us know if you want us to continue.

We almost posted this morning......

SPI gave us 20 points in 30 secs.

Nice.


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## CanOz

Bronte said:


> We hope some members have enjoyed this thread so far...
> 
> Please let us know if you want us to continue.
> 
> We almost posted this morning......
> 
> SPI gave us 20 points in 30 secs.
> 
> Nice.




Trading the news Bronte?


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## Bronte

CanOz said:


> Trading the news Bronte?




Yes CanOz,
Always the news....


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## Caveroute

Bronte said:


> We hope some members have enjoyed this thread so far...
> 
> Please let us know if you want us to continue.
> 
> We almost posted this morning......
> 
> SPI gave us 20 points in 30 secs.
> 
> Nice.




Hi Bronte, how do you enter on the open ?

I have an automated NT strategy that today on the SPI open tried to enter short on a limit order off the 5 tick ask.

The slippage made me cringe, 20+ points, and  I lost money when it should have been a great trade. 

Some days it's a few ticks here and there, but today ......

How do you do it ?

Tia.


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## Bronte

Hi Caveroute,

This mornings order was placed with IB:

*Sell 5440 Limit
*
The market opened at 5439 and went up one point to 5440  (very lucky)

Any open *above* 5440 would have been filled.   5440 sometimes  

Orders are placed pre open, anytime after 09:40

Hope this helps....


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## wayneL

There were a couple of hindsight claims above.... Lets keep is live as the thread started aye.


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## Caveroute

Bronte said:


> We hope some members have enjoyed this thread so far...
> 
> Please let us know if you want us to continue.
> 
> We almost posted this morning......
> 
> SPI gave us 20 points in 30 secs.
> 
> Nice.




Yes, please continue - it's how  I start my day.


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## 5oclock

Please continue BRONTE , just because we dont reply doesnt mean we dont read and get something from your posts, so please continue---thanks!!!


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## Bronte

Bronte said:


> It is often quoted that the SPI is _*"Opened by amateurs, closed by professionals"
> *_
> My intention is to use this thread as a place for preopen SPI discussion.
> 
> Any / all market calls will be made *before* the SPI opens. 09:49:30
> 
> A maximum Stoploss of eight points will be used, at all times.
> 
> Only the exits will be live.
> 
> All SPI traders are welcome to post.
> 
> Please enjoy......






Caveroute said:


> Yes, please continue - it's how  I start my day.






5oclock said:


> Please continue BRONTE , just because we dont reply doesnt mean we dont read and get something from your posts, so please continue---thanks!!!




So we have:  Pre Open Foresight orders.

Stoploss of: *-8 max* on confirmation of Open  (*RISK*)

Targets of:  *+8  plus*  (*REWARD*)

Support and Resistance areas.

Great  *RISK : REWARD*  Money Management.  (BE asap)

High Successs Rate,  considering this is *'THE OPEN'*  on  *'THE SPI'*

Analysis: Tops, Bottoms, Gaps, Sycom, Ranges, D/days, TIME, etc.........


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## Bronte

NYSE Dow Jones Finished Up +30.83
SPI Sycom 5487 H Closed at  5456
Targets:    5478 5483

Double Top: 5477 5487
Double Bottom: 5444 5445
Gap to close 5407
Directional Day due......

Ideal position for my stoploss above Sycom High.
Monday mornings seem to be the most unpredictable.
Lower volume tomorrow due to holidays..Labour Day (Vic) Canberra day etc
Good luck SPI traders.


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## Bronte

Bronte said:


> NYSE Dow Jones Finished down -30.83






Bronte said:


> NYSE Dow Jones Finished Up +30.83




This has just been brought to our attention.
Post #17 & Post #39     lol


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## Bronte

Bronte said:


> Double Top: 5477 5487
> Double Bottom: *5444 5445*
> Gap to close 5407
> Directional Day due......
> 
> Monday mornings seem to be the most unpredictable.
> Lower volume tomorrow due to holidays..Labour Day (Vic) Canberra day etc
> Good luck SPI traders.




SPI Opened at 5444
We have seen Highs of 5445 and then a retest later at 5444
A nice Directional Day off Double Top 5445 5444
Our Support became Resistance this morning.
5416 Low so far
Gap to close ?


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## Bronte

Bronte said:


> Gap to close 5407
> Directional Day due......




Gap just Closed.
5407 Low.
Now 5415


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## Bronte

NYSE Dow Jones Finished down -34 points 
SPI Sycom Closed at 5421
Target 5412

Double Bottom: (5407/06) 
Gap Closed & Supported SPI
Sycom Low 5399  200%  T

Ideal position for my stoploss below Sycom Low
*Buying 5421 Limit*
Looking for Breakeven asap.
Good luck SPI traders.


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## Bronte

5424 Open
5422 Low
Went to 5429
Just missed.....

Trade over.


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## Bronte

SPI hovering around 5421 +2 / -1

Looking to buy Target T 5412 (As above)


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## Bronte

Bronte said:


> Looking to buy Target T 5412 (As above)




5414 Low
Trade over......
Now 5422


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## Bronte

Bronte said:


> Looking to buy Target T 5412 (As above)




Just for the record....
Support 5412 held for a short while.


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## Bronte

NYSE Dow Jones Finished down *-231.19*
SPI Sycom 5336 Low  Closed at 5355
*Target 5366
*
Double Bottom:  5334  5336  
Possible Gap to close 5377 Low
Directional Day due......

Ideal position for my stoploss below Sycom Low.
*Buying 5355 Limit.*
Looking for Breakeven asap.
Good luck SPI traders.


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## Bronte

5350 Open
Went to 5345 
Sold to get out at 5350 +/- 0

Looking to buy again at Double Bottom


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## Bronte

Bronte said:


> 5350 Open
> Went to 5345
> Sold to get out at 5350 +/- 0
> 
> *Looking to buy again at Double Bottom*




Bought 5336


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## Bronte

Bronte said:


> Bought 5336




Now 5344 / 45 * +8*
Stops to Breakeven.


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## Bronte

Nothing to report apart from paying our two Futures Brokers a lot of commission.
SPI Open trade well and truly over. Had lots of fun tho.......


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## Bronte

Bronte said:


> It is often quoted that the SPI is _*"Opened by amateurs, closed by professionals"
> *_
> My intention is to use this thread as a place for preopen SPI discussion.
> 
> Any / all market calls will be made *before* the SPI opens. 09:49:30
> 
> A maximum Stoploss of eight points will be used, at all times.
> 
> Only the exits will be live.
> 
> All SPI traders are welcome to post.
> 
> Please enjoy......




I feel that the *'amateurs'* that opened the SPI this morning would have lost money.



Bronte said:


> Keep an eye on my Targets
> They make great Support / Resistance areas



A great place to Buy / Sell  



Bronte said:


> NYSE Dow Jones Finished down *-231.19*
> SPI Sycom 5336 Low  Closed at 5355
> *Target 5366
> *
> Double Bottom:  5334  5336
> Possible Gap to close 5377 Low
> Directional Day due......
> *After buying the open and seeing -5 points
> It was a strong sign that the directional day expected was against us.....
> *



Professionals to close the market today ?
Keep an eye on my Target T
Also the gap to close.


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## Wysiwyg

Bought open and picked up 21 points within 20 minutes. Not going to watch the paint dry though.


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## Bronte

Nice one 

Did you Buy the open ??  after seeing:

NYSE Dow Jones Finished was down -43.22
SPI Sycom 5302 Low Closed at 5307
Target 5321

Double Bottom: 5302 5303
Gap to close 5322 5377 Lows
Directional Day due......

Ideal position for my stoploss below Sycom Low.
NB: SPI Opened really Low this morning.....

Good luck SPI traders.


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## Wysiwyg

Bronte said:


> Nice one
> Did you Buy the open ??  after seeing:



The reaction low. Lucky really.


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## Bronte

Bronte said:


> Nice one
> 
> Did you Buy the open ??  after seeing:
> 
> *NB: SPI Opened really Low this morning.....*






Wysiwyg said:


> The reaction low. Lucky really.





http://www.animateit.net/data/media/264/doc-kick.gif


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## Bronte

Good morning SPI traders. 

NYSE Dow Jones Finished up +181.55 points.
SPI Sycom Closed at 5345
Targets: 5358 5377

Double Bottom: 5302/03    5290 
Double Tops:    5354        5354 (Sycom)
Gaps to close:  5377 low   5333 High
Directional Day due ? ...... maybe not today.

Time frame Low yesterday.


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## Bronte

Bronte said:


> Good morning SPI traders.
> 
> NYSE Dow Jones Finished up +181.55 points.
> SPI Sycom Closed at 5345
> Targets: 5358 5377
> 
> Double Bottom: 5302/03    5290
> Double Tops:    5354        5354 (Sycom)
> Gaps to close:  5377 low   5333 High
> Directional Day due ? ...... maybe not today.
> 
> Time frame Low yesterday.




Opened at: 5349  5347 Low
Resistance from: 5354/56/*57*
Opener & Low broken 5346 now.


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## Bronte

Bronte said:


> Good morning SPI traders.
> 
> Time frame Low yesterday.*Monday*




Good morning 06:00 AM
Dow Up + 88.97


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## Bronte

NYSE Dow Jones Finished up +88.97 points.
SPI Sycom Closed at 5362
Targets: 5366

Double Bottom: 5302/03 5290 
Double Tops: 5372 5369 (Sycom)
Gaps to close: 5377 low 5364 High
Directional Day due ? ...... maybe not today.
Time frame Low Monday. 

Selling: 5366 Lmt


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## Bronte

Bronte said:


> *Selling: 5366 Lmt*




Opened at 5362
5365 High
5351 now doh!
Missed by one point.


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## Bronte

Bronte said:


> NYSE Dow Jones Finished up +88.97 points.
> SPI Sycom Closed at 5362
> *Targets: 5366*
> 
> Double Bottom: 5302/03 5290
> Double Tops: 5372 5369 (Sycom)
> Gaps to close: 5377 low 5364 High
> Directional Day due ? ...... maybe not today.
> Time frame Low Monday.
> 
> *Selling: 5366 Lmt*




Those *Targets T* work well 
Now: 5334  Low
+30 pts 10 mins

Make that 5329 Low 07:08 AM


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## Bronte

On 13th July 2005 at 07:31 AM

We posted this here at: *Aussie Stock Forums:*

'Buy Low and Sell High'

This simply means that you identify an area of *Support.*
ie Gann, Fibonacci, previous proven area - double bottoms, 50% etc
Buy low when the market is moving away from this area.
Place a stoploss a few points away (under the area of Support)
If you are wrong happily take a small loss or reverse.
When right use a trailing stoploss to take a large profit,
when the market turns.

Or trade to:

'Sell High and Buy Low''

This simply means that you identify an area of *Resistance.*
ie Gann, Fibonacci, previous proven areas - double tops, 50% etc
Sell high when the market is moving away from this area.
Place a stoploss a few points away (above the area of Resistance)
If you are wrong happily take a small loss or reverse.
When right use a trailing stoploss to take a large profit,
when the market turns.

This is trading 'What you see' with great 'Risk Management'

-------------------------------------------------------------------

For Educational Purposes only.


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## Bronte

Bronte said:


> Keep an eye on my Targets
> They make great Support / Resistance areas.






Bronte said:


> So we have:  Pre Open Foresight orders.
> 
> Stoploss of: *-8 max* on confirmation of Open  (*RISK*)
> 
> Targets of:  *+8  plus*  (*REWARD*)
> 
> *Support and Resistance areas.*
> 
> Great  *RISK : REWARD*  Money Management.  (BE asap)
> 
> High Successs Rate,  considering this is *'THE OPEN'*  on  *'THE SPI'*
> 
> Analysis: Tops, Bottoms, Gaps, Sycom, Ranges, D/days, TIME, etc.........




*Target T*



Bronte said:


> Those *Targets T* work well






Bronte said:


> On 13th July 2005 at 07:31 AM
> 
> We posted this here at: *Aussie Stock Forums:*
> 
> 'Buy Low and Sell High'
> 
> This simply means that you identify an area of *Support.*
> ie Gann, Fibonacci, previous proven area - double bottoms, 50% etc
> Buy low when the market is moving away from this area.
> Place a stoploss a few points away (under the area of Support)
> If you are wrong happily take a small loss or reverse.
> When right use a trailing stoploss to take a large profit,
> when the market turns.
> 
> Or trade to:
> 
> 'Sell High and Buy Low''
> 
> This simply means that you identify an area of *Resistance.*
> ie Gann, Fibonacci, previous proven areas - double tops, 50% etc
> Sell high when the market is moving away from this area.
> Place a stoploss a few points away (above the area of Resistance)
> If you are wrong happily take a small loss or reverse.
> When right use a trailing stoploss to take a large profit,
> when the market turns.
> 
> This is trading 'What you see' with great 'Risk Management'
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> For Educational Purposes only.




Identify: Areas of *Support and Resistance.*
Trade off them....Sounds easy


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## Bronte

Good morning  :cup:  

Any SPI Traders on IB this morning ?


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## fiftyeight

I was watching but did not trade. 

Seen a short but at 5368 I think but I was a bit busy at work


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## Bronte

Thanks for the reply fiftyeight. 

We couldn't logon to IB first thing this morning. (6.45 am WST)

This seems to be happening on a regular basis. (this year at least) 

We are also experiencing very slow fills, or at least slow confirmations. 

Anyone else having troubles  ??????


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## >Apocalypto<

Bronte said:


> Thanks for the reply fiftyeight.
> 
> We couldn't logon to IB first thing this morning. (6.45 am WST)
> 
> This seems to be happening on a regular basis. (this year at least)
> 
> We are also experiencing very slow fills, or at least slow confirmations.
> 
> Anyone else having troubles  ??????




You're trading to well Bronte, they're on to you!


----------



## Bronte

>Apocalypto< said:


> You're trading to well Bronte, they're on to you!




Do you really think so Apocalypto ?   Just like Trembling Hand experiences. ?

Hope not,  we have been trading with IB for far too many years now.......


----------



## fiftyeight

Ahhh  I am hoping to move back Perth soon, didnt think about how early the open would be


----------



## Bronte

Yes, it is an early start.

The positives are: 

1. If you can get the SPI Open Direction correct!!!!   All done and back to bed by 7.30 am 

2. One full hour later during the winter, as WA doesn't alter the clocks.... at all.

3. A Fantastic place to live and Retire.  

Good Luck fiftyeight (fiftynine this year ?)


----------



## Bronte

We have learnt that 'Greed' is one of the Seven deadly sins.

This is very important to us when 'Trading The SPI'

Happy to make our target and then..... do whatever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins


----------



## dlineinvestor

Bronte said:


> We have learnt that 'Greed' is one of the Seven deadly sins.
> 
> This is very important to us when 'Trading The SPI'
> 
> Happy to make our target and then..... do whatever.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins




Hello Bronte,
Welcome back ... 
Show us what you've been up to today (chart) 
Did you leave much on the table, is that what you mean ?
all in jest
Cheers


----------



## fiftyeight

Yeah I am originally from Perth and looking forward to getting home.

Yeah a few positives, ill be able to watch the open before work with no distractions.

Nope 58 is just my lucky number, many many years before I think about retiring


----------



## Bronte

Yes, we used to trade the:  'SPI Open'  before work.
We lost a lot of money doing this until finally learning our lessons.
Then we realised that 'Trading The SPI' could replace work...so we retired.
We celebrated my husband 40th birthday on a cruise with friends.
That was in the great year of 2000.


----------



## Bronte

dlineinvestor said:


> Hello Bronte,
> Welcome back ...
> Show us what you've been up to today (chart)
> Did you leave much on the table, is that what you mean ?
> all in jest
> Cheers



Thanks dlineinvestor.  
Nothing to show today,  as I went back to bed. 
If 'Trading The SPI (Open)' traders are keen......
We might rekindle this thread tomorrow morning.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:


> It is often quoted that the SPI is _*"Opened by amateurs, closed by professionals"
> *_
> My intention is to use this thread as a place for preopen SPI discussion.
> 
> Any / all market calls will be made *before* the SPI opens. 09:49:30
> 
> A maximum Stoploss of eight points will be used, at all times.
> 
> Only the exits will be live.
> 
> All SPI traders are welcome to post.
> 
> Please enjoy......




NYSE Dow Jones Finished up +33.27 points. (17,719)
SPI Sycom Closed at 5328

Directional Day due ? ...... maybe not today.

*Selling: 5329 Lmt*
Stoploss above Sycom High
Target: 5325


----------



## fiftyeight

So if you get filled at 29, your target is 5 points?


----------



## Bronte

Opened Low and went Lower as expected.
No trade.....

Open 5323/24
Low 5315

Then we saw 5328    (missed by 1 point)
Now 5320


----------



## Bronte

fiftyeight said:


> So if you get filled at 29, your target is 5 points?




Yes fiftyeight, 

That is correctish.

Often the SPI can open much higher.

Just Sold 34 Sycom Double Top

Now 29   Taken +4


----------



## Bronte

We will be buying 5320
On this present move.....


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:


> We will be buying 5320
> On this present move.....



Ooops
Managed to get out -1


----------



## Bronte

A Wild ride this morning on the SPI 

5325 H 
5315 L 10 pt move
5338 H 23 pt move
5311 L 27 pt move
5334 H 23 pt move
5310 L  Now 24 pt move

7.35 am Back to bed.
Wet morning here in Perth.


----------



## dlineinvestor

Hello Bronte,

I hope you don't mind a few questions ... 
Feel free to add or correct anything:

In trading the SPI open, you are placing limit orders before the market starts correct ?
What is the usual spread in premarket on IB ?
Once your limit order gets filled your down -(*) pts right away correct ? Is an 8 pt SL too tight ?
Do you watch premarket volume or ADR closes for any major stocks to assist in your decisions ?
On average how long are you at the screen each day ?
I've heard as a trading option a trader could focus more on contract size instead of taking many points, is this your approach ? EG: 5-10 contracts for 8 points or less finishing up early as opposed to 1 contract trading all day for many pts
In this case you either win or lose asap ... but avoid the languishing of a full day session

Quite a few questions I know but have wanted to post here from some time. 
Cheers for your considerations.


----------



## Bronte

dlineinvestor said:


> Hello Bronte,
> 
> I hope you don't mind a few questions ... *not at all*
> Feel free to add or correct anything:
> 
> In trading the SPI open, you are placing limit orders before the market starts correct ? *Yes*
> What is the usual spread in premarket on IB ? *Not sure...not really interested in spread*
> Once your limit order gets filled your down -(*) pts right away correct ? *No* Is an 8 pt SL too tight ? *No*Do you watch premarket volume *No* or ADR closes for any major stocks to assist in your decisions ? *No*On average how long are you at the screen each day ? *This varies from 30 mins to a couple of hours*
> I've heard as a trading option a trader could focus more on contract size instead of taking many points, is this your approach ? *We do both  *EG: 5-10 contracts for 8 points or less finishing up early as opposed to 1 contract trading all day for many pts
> In this case you either win or lose asap ... but avoid the languishing of a full day session *True*
> Quite a few questions I know but have wanted to post here from some time.
> Cheers for your considerations. *No Worries  Happy to assist.*




Friday we placed a preopen SPI Order: 

Selling: 5329 Lmt   *If the SPI Opens at 5329 or any higher open we are filled 'On Open'*
Stoploss above Sycom High  *Stoploss is placed on confirmation of 'Open Fill'*
Target: 5325


----------



## Bronte

fiftyeight said:


> So if you get filled at 29, your target is 5 points?




So as fiftyeight posted: If the SPI Opens at 5329 We would expect an Open fill at 5329 S/L 5337 

If the SPI had Opened *above* 5329....  say 5334 (Sycom High)  We would be filled at 5334 S/L 5342


----------



## dlineinvestor

Bronte said:


> Friday we placed a preopen SPI Order:
> 
> Selling: 5329 Lmt   *If the SPI Opens at 5329 or any higher open we are filled 'On Open'*
> Stoploss above Sycom High  *Stoploss is placed on confirmation of 'Open Fill'*
> Target: 5325




Bronte,
Thank's for your answers.
Can you give us an indication of the typical number of contracts used (if not I understand the why)

Your orders allow you to be completely devoid of all emotions that plaque most (+1)
In fact you can even be absent from class and not get detention


----------



## Bronte

We are looking for the SPI Open to be 'overbought' or 'oversold' and quickly move back to value.

Directional Days are when the train leaves the station and keeps on moving........  

If this is the case and the SPI has moved away from strong *'Support or Resistance'*
then we move our stoplosses to 'Breakeven' sometimes taking some profit and reducing our contracts.

How many contracts do we Buy or Sell ?? This depends on the trade and level of:  Risk:Reward
Time is very important in our analysis. We also consider Gaps, Double Top/Bottoms etc etc etc


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:


> It is often quoted that the SPI is _*"Opened by amateurs, closed by professionals"
> *_




We feel that it is important to mention here that the SPI is *very difficult *to trade for 'amateurs' 

It is said that the Open even more so..........

It is often quoted that the SPI "Will do whatever it takes to ensure that the majority of traders get it wrong"

_90 per cent of active futures traders will lose their risk capital within 90 days._ So they say.


----------



## tech/a

http://www.travismorien.com/FAQ/trading/futradersuccess.htm

Worth a read


----------



## Wysiwyg

Bronte said:


> We feel that it is important to mention here that the SPI is *very difficult *to trade for 'amateurs'



Hello Bronte . Assuming all non amateurs are professional, what would a professional do on Monday with the present data and with a "Trade the SPI open" approach?

1) SPI opens higher then reverses 
2) SPI opens higher and continues higher 
3) SPI opens higher and continues higher marginally then reverses
4) SPI opens higher then reverses then continues higher 
5) SPI opens lower then reverses higher

It's a tough Q.


----------



## dlineinvestor

Bronte said:


> Friday we placed a preopen SPI Order:
> 
> Selling: 5329 Lmt   *If the SPI Opens at 5329 or any higher open we are filled 'On Open'*
> Stoploss above Sycom High  *Stoploss is placed on confirmation of 'Open Fill'*
> Target: 5325




Looks like you'll be filled around 5360 ish (sycom close)
Just out of interest if fair value is quite a ways down will you increase your target.

There is a calculation for fair value. I think in the case of an index dividends are not a consideration
Mind if I ask how your calculating it ?


----------



## dlineinvestor

Bronte said:


> We feel that it is important to mention here that the SPI is *very difficult *to trade for 'amateurs'
> 
> It is said that the Open even more so..........
> 
> It is often quoted that the SPI "Will do whatever it takes to ensure that the majority of traders get it wrong"
> 
> _90 per cent of active futures traders will lose their risk capital within 90 days._ So they say.




Placing orders pre-market with only an 8 point SL. This would require a degree of precision imo
I find it very interesting that you trade this way. If over time it makes you money then your beating institutions robots programs and all the other smart mechanisms designed to fool us. +1 
My approach has been to wait after the open with levels marked on my screen and using OPEN CLOSE relationships, sycom trendlines , forming patterns then to trade accordingly price action around those items. This is not the full strategy or in order / detail but for this post close enough. 
There are time when it does moves too quick and you wish you had orders set. The difficulty lies in the speed at which the information needs to be processed. This is why I can see the positives in your setting orders approach. I understand fully well that the SPI will do what ever it takes to ensure most get it wrong


----------



## Bronte

Try to hide stoplosses above Resistance and below Support.

*Keeping losses small *and manageable. (-8 or even less)

Wins larger than losses (Let some contracts run >>>>>>>>>>>>>)


----------



## Bronte

Wysiwyg said:


> Hello Bronte . Assuming all non amateurs are professional, what would a professional do on Monday with the present data and with a "Trade the SPI open" approach?
> 
> 1) SPI opens higher then reverses
> 2) SPI opens higher and continues higher
> 3) SPI opens higher and continues higher marginally then reverses
> 4) SPI opens higher then reverses then continues higher
> 5) SPI opens lower then reverses higher
> 
> It's a tough Q.




We have a timeframe this weekend, so we feel Monday will be even more difficult.
Interesting that China has cut its interest rates and world markets shoot upwards.

We will have a good think about your Q and post either tomorrow or early Monday morning.
If that is alright with you Wysiwyg ?   What are your thoughts on the SPI closing the presumed 'Gap'?


----------



## Wysiwyg

Bronte said:


> What are your thoughts on the SPI closing the presumed 'Gap'?



I dare not think. With all the gloom about short - medium term outlook in Australia such as Gov. cuts and export revenues down and company forecasts negative it is all a bit much to remain positive at least in the near term. SPI movement after open? Well the above facts haven't evaporated overnight so I think further downside after open. Put these thoughts out there though and the smart ass market movers do the opposite.

No. 3


----------



## tech/a

China is stimulating it's massive economy ----- Australia has just brokered a free trade agreement with it's biggest customer.

Only one direction.


----------



## dlineinvestor

Bronte, how are you calculating fair value
Thank's


----------



## dlineinvestor

Bronte said:


> We are looking for the SPI Open to be 'overbought' or 'oversold' and quickly move back to value.
> 
> Directional Days are when the train leaves the station and keeps on moving........
> 
> If this is the case and the SPI has moved away from strong *'Support or Resistance'*
> then we move our stoplosses to 'Breakeven' sometimes taking some profit and reducing our contracts.
> 
> How many contracts do we Buy or Sell ?? This depends on the trade and level of:  Risk:Reward
> Time is very important in our analysis. We also consider Gaps, Double Top/Bottoms etc etc etc






dlineinvestor said:


> Bronte, how are you calculating fair value
> Thank's




Correction : what determines value or did you mean fair value. Either way are you using a calculation for this figure
cheers


----------



## Bronte

dlineinvestor said:


> Bronte, how are you calculating fair value
> Thank's




As you know dlineinvestor, it all happens so quickly to mess around with calculations.

Just keep an eye on: The Physical (S&P/ASX 200 Index) V's The Futures (SFE SPI 200 Index Futures)


----------



## dlineinvestor

Bronte said:


> As you know dlineinvestor, it all happens so quickly to mess around with calculations.
> 
> Just keep an eye on: The Physical (S&P/ASX 200 Index) V's The Futures (SFE SPI 200 Index Futures)



Hi, it all sounds good and as it's working even better. Cheers for posting


----------



## Bronte

Wysiwyg said:


> Hello Bronte . Assuming all non amateurs are professional, what would a professional do on Monday with the present data and with a "Trade the SPI open" approach?
> 
> 1) SPI opens higher then reverses
> 2) SPI opens higher and continues higher
> 3) SPI opens higher and continues higher marginally then reverses
> 4) SPI opens higher then reverses then continues higher
> 5) SPI opens lower then reverses higher
> 
> It's a tough Q.




4) 

NYSE Dow Jones Finished up 91.06 + 0.51 % (17,810.06)
SPI Sycom 5371 H Closed at 5360

Triple Top: 5371 5371 5371 Sycom
Possible Gap to close 5338 High
Directional Day due......

Target 5326

Ideal position for my stoploss above Sycom High
*Sell 5359 Limit*
Looking for Breakeven asap.
Good luck SPI traders. 

*Any other SPI traders keen to speculate on tomorrow mornings Open ?*


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:


> 4)
> Target 5326
> 
> Ideal position for my stoploss above Sycom High
> *Sell 5359 Limit*
> Looking for Breakeven asap.
> Good luck SPI traders.
> 
> *Any other SPI traders keen to speculate on tomorrow mornings Open ?*




Sold the 'Open' at 5360

Now 5349   +11


----------



## tech/a

Bronte said:


> Sold the 'Open' at 5360
> 
> Now 5349   +11




Bronte what's the chart code?


----------



## Bronte

SPI Dec18'14 @SNFE


----------



## Bronte

_4) SPI opens higher then reverses then continues higher _

Opened at 5360 reversed to 5349 then continued higher to: 5367

Now 5352/3


----------



## Wysiwyg

Bronte said:


> _4) SPI opens higher then reverses then continues higher _
> 
> Opened at 5360 reversed to 5349 then continued higher to: 5367
> 
> Now 5352/3



Bullseye Bronte.

High of 5388 at the mo.


----------



## tech/a

Wysiwyg said:


> Bullseye Bronte.




*Break even trade according to this.*





As expected according to this.


----------



## Bronte

*lol tech/a Bet you $100,000 that it is NOT. *


----------



## tech/a

Bronte said:


> *lol tech/a Bet you $100,000 that it is NOT. *




Not what?


----------



## Bronte

tech/a said:


> China is stimulating it's massive economy ----- Australia has just brokered a free trade agreement with it's biggest customer.
> 
> Only one direction.



*tech/a, we assume you meant upwards ??? You are stoplossed out for -8 per contract.*


----------



## tech/a

Bronte said:


> *tech/a, we assume you meant upwards ??? You are stoplossed out for -8 per contract.*




I did--do.
I don't see where I placed up a trade?
As you did?

According to what I see posted.
You were out at B/E and the SPI is going up.
The rest is assumption---incorrect at that.


----------



## Bronte

tech/a said:


> I did--do.




So tech/a, you traded the *SPI (Open)* and lost "it happens'
Please do not be angry with us.
Try again tomorrow.


----------



## dlineinvestor

Bronte said:


> Sold the 'Open' at 5360
> 
> Now 5349   +11



Hello again, nice trade and call # 4)
Was the your close on limit order or your discretion, would have been to the tick 
Did you enter again in the up trend ?
Cheers


----------



## Bronte

Wysiwyg said:


> Bullseye Bronte.
> High of 5388 at the mo.




*'Thank you' Wysiwyg, *   5389 was the High

4) SPI opens higher then reverses then continues higher

*'Thank you' dlineinvestor,*

Yes we entered again after the Double Bottom:  5349 / 5352


----------



## tech/a

Bronte said:


> So tech/a, you traded the *SPI (Open)* and lost "it happens'
> Please do not be angry with us.
> Try again tomorrow.




I did?

Angry--who's angry?

Break even trades are great capital preservers 
good call you were wise to have it there.
Particularly when you were looking for 5326
Live to fight another day. Ill join the fan club.



> Yes we entered again after the Double Bottom: 5349 / 5352




Of course you did
Well done!!


----------



## Bronte

*'Thank you' tech/a*
We have seen you post, that most of *your* trades are breakeven trades.


----------



## tech/a

Bronte said:


> *'Thank you' tech/a*
> We have seen you post, that most of *your* trades are breakeven trades.




Yes a lot are.


----------



## Bronte

We *NEVER* let a profit turn into loss.
Especially +11 per contract trades in 30secs.


----------



## tech/a

Bronte said:


> We *NEVER* let a profit turn into loss.
> Especially +11 per contract trades in 30secs.




So why the stop at B/E
Why the expectation of 26?
How do you get there to any target without getting B/E stops occurring
particularly when you NEVER let a profit turn to a loss---in a B/E trade then the brokerage is a loss?



> Yes a lot are




And some aren't.


----------



## Bronte

:topic tech/a, Why post 'Off topic' charts ? ?
Please this is 'Trading The SPI (Open) thread.

:jerry:jerry:jerry  lol


----------



## Bronte

tech/a said:


> So why the stop at B/E
> Why the expectation of 26?
> How do you get there to any target without getting B/E stops occurring
> particularly when you NEVER let a profit turn to a loss---in a B/E trade then the brokerage is a loss?




If the SPI had moved only +2/4 B/E
If the train had continued lower....one contract to 26
We did expect the SPI to continue higher:

4) SPI opens higher then reverses then continues higher


----------



## dlineinvestor

Bronte said:


> :jerry:jerry:jerry  lol



lol opcorn:


----------



## tech/a

Bronte said:


> _4) SPI opens higher then reverses then continues higher _
> 
> Opened at 5360 reversed to 5349 then continued higher to: 5367
> 
> Now 5352/3




Bronte sorry I just don't see that in your post below here?




Bronte said:


> 4)
> 
> NYSE Dow Jones Finished up 91.06 + 0.51 % (17,810.06)
> SPI Sycom 5371 H Closed at 5360
> 
> Triple Top: 5371 5371 5371 Sycom
> Possible Gap to close 5338 High
> 
> *Directional Day due......*
> 
> *Target 5326*
> 
> Ideal position for *my stoploss above Sycom High*
> 
> *Sell 5359 Limit*
> Looking for Breakeven asap.
> Good luck SPI traders.
> 
> *Any other SPI traders keen to speculate on tomorrow mornings Open ?*




Its in your 9.17 post but that's *after its all happened*.

You were looking at a directional day and at 26 that was lower.


----------



## Bronte

tech/a said:


> Bronte sorry I just don't see that in your post below here?
> 
> _No need to apologise tech/a_
> 
> Its in your 9.17 post but that's *after its all happened*.
> 
> You were looking at a directional day and at 26 that was lower.




No a Direction Day *is due*.... (doesn't have to be today).. tomorrow after our timeframe. maybe ???


----------



## Bronte

tech/a said:


> Bronte what's the chart code?




tech/a   Do you even trade the SPI ?? You asked for the code ??
We have been 'Trading The SPI for 20+ years'.


----------



## tech/a

Bronte said:


> tech/a   Do you even trade the SPI ?? You asked for the code ??
> We have been 'Trading The SPI for 20+ years'.




Think we have the direction today!

What's that got to do with my queries about your post/s?

Does Dline
Does Wysi 

Is this thread for SPI traders ONLY who actually place trades?
I've traded Futures 15 yrs and yes have traded the SPI.
Trade the DAX now---but you knew that.

Please don't get angry with me---
I have feelings to.


----------



## Bronte

tech/a said:


> Please don't get angry with me---




We are not at all angry with you tech/a.
You are near retirement age and your choice is to work.
We are ten years younger, and our choice is to trade 'The SPI'. 
We are just so very different.... good luck.


----------



## tech/a

Bronte said:


> We are not at all angry with you tech/a.
> You are near retirement age and your choice is to work.
> We are ten years younger, and our choice is to trade 'The SPI'.
> We are just so very different.... good luck.




Vastly.

If trading the SPI is all you do.

I " work " because I love it.
Not because I have to.

And good luck to you Bronte.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

Bronte said:


> We




Hey Bronte, you keep saying we when posting, who is the "we"? Are you a group of traders somewhere or you just referring to other SPI traders? Or you at a prop shop?


----------



## kid hustlr

Bronte, I like reading these type of threads - I assume the best and assume all posts are made in roughly real time but I find your posts really cryptic. Could you perhaps clearly outline several trades (well after the fact is fine) and your thoughts behind? No need to give away all knowledge but a couple of 1 line posts makes for difficult reading??!!


----------



## tech/a

No one trading today?
Long direction Yesterday
Short direction Today.

Volatility the Futures traders 
bread and butter.


----------



## Bronte

tech/a said:


> China is stimulating it's massive economy ----- Australia has just brokered a free trade agreement with it's biggest customer.
> 
> Only one direction.



Good morning tech/a

This was an easy call to make.
We can all see now that it is *not* looking good..... true?


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:


> NYSE Dow Jones Finished up 7.84 (17,817.90)
> SPI Sycom Closed at 5351
> 
> Possible Gap to close 5338 High    *Closed*
> Directional Day due......   *Very Strong Downwards Directional Day after our timeframe High*
> Target 5326    *Provided Strong Support +19  *
> Now 5301 Low




5389 High
5301 Now  Down *-88 Points*


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:


> No a Direction Day *is due*.... (doesn't have to be today).. tomorrow after our timeframe. maybe ???



*Bingo*


----------



## tech/a

Bronte said:


> Good morning tech/a
> 
> This was an easy call to make.
> We can all see now that it is *not* looking good..... true?




If it was that easy why didn't you post this up before it happened?
Oh of course you'll claim you did! See highlighted section below.
Too early to call over the longer or medium term--but today it is correcting yesterday.



Bronte said:


> 5389 High
> 5301 Now  Down *-88 Points*




Would have been much more impressive had you called this at 7 eastern time this morning.
Easy to hind site this which you do with great gusto. 



Bronte said:


> *Bingo*




Even easier to post like a politician with open ended possibilities you can quote over an open ended timeframe. 
*We had a directional day yesterday AND today. So you definitely got that right!*
Are you suggesting a trend?
If so what do you think will the SPI trend long or short?


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:


> We feel that it is important to mention here that the SPI is *very difficult *to trade for 'amateurs'
> 
> It is said that the Open even more so..........
> 
> It is often quoted that the SPI *"Will do whatever it takes to ensure that the majority of traders get it wrong"*_90 per cent of active futures traders will lose their risk capital within 90 days._ So they say.




Please tech/a just admit, that your call is *NOT* looking good.
How low was your stoploss ?


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:


> That was an easy call to make.
> We can all see now that it is *not* looking good..... *true*?



Up 29 points, * Down 88 points *?
Please answer this question tech/a


----------



## Bronte

tech/a said:


> Would have been much more impressive had you called this at 7 eastern time this morning.
> Easy to hind site this which you do with great gusto.
> *We did, just not on this forum, please do not ask. lol*
> 
> We had a directional day yesterday AND today. So you definitely got that right!
> Thank you.  *Actually we do not class yesterday as a Directional Day   + 11 / - 29 (From Open)
> *




Lots of Volume 'Supported' the SPI at 5326/7  and then at 5301


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:


> *Directional Days are when the train leaves the station and keeps on moving........ *
> 
> If this is the case and the SPI has moved away from strong *'Support or Resistance'*
> then we move our stoplosses to 'Breakeven' sometimes taking some profit and reducing our contracts.
> 
> How many contracts do we Buy or Sell ?? This depends on the trade and level of:  Risk:Reward
> Time is very important in our analysis. We also consider Gaps, Double Top/Bottoms etc etc etc






Bronte said:


> *We have a timeframe this weekend*, so we feel Monday will be even more difficult.
> Interesting that China has cut its interest rates and world markets shoot upwards.
> 
> We will have a good think about your Q and post either tomorrow or early Monday morning.
> If that is alright with you Wysiwyg ?   What are your thoughts on the SPI closing the presumed 'Gap'?



Posted here at ASF  this thread: Saturday afternoon: 22nd November 4.41pm


----------



## dlineinvestor

SPI
Fridays low has held thus respected for the short term
Daily chart making double bottom, all gaps filled now.

Market hinging on Spot Iron Ore and AUD stability / recovery ?
No threatening macro events at this time
imo odds favour a grinding move up. US markets seem overbought though
Stop just below today's low if swing trade initiated.
My thoughts and  of course


----------



## Bronte

Nice post: dlineinvestor,
Obvious Daily chart Support Here. 
Due to the Double Bottom 5298 / 5301
Down 88 points 
Oversold.


----------



## Bronte

tech/a said:


> If trading the SPI is all you do.
> *Far from it tech/a*
> 
> I " work " because I love it.
> Not because I have to.
> 
> And good luck to you Bronte.




No, we travel a lot. (cruises mostly, these days)
Although we own a sports car and a sports/cruiser motorcycle.

We "trade" because we love it.
Not because we have to.

'We' ??  The Royal "We"   My husband and I


----------



## tech/a

Hate cruises.
Been on 3 too many.

Although I also own 3 Mules and a Goat.


----------



## Bronte

tech/a said:


> Hate cruises.
> Been on 3 too many.
> 
> Although I also own 3 Mules and a Goat.




*Lol, have you tried your own yacht ?* although you may need an ARK.


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## tech/a

Bronte said:


> *Lol, have you tried your own yacht ?* although you may need an ARK.




What's wrong with my ARK?


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## Bronte

Its just difficult to get it to sail in the *right* direction.


----------



## prophetable

Hi Bronte and all,
For a beginning trader im a little confused at the trading range youve just mention in the quote below?
Im looking at the open at 09:50 of 5347, then the down move to the low of 5301 at 11:24 and then the rise to the end of RTH at 15:30 it got back to 5347.
In my (limited experience) isnt that a range of 46 points?
Where does the -88 come from? Another previous RTH trading periods high? 
Sorry for the questions - i just dont understand what you are doing here and what relevance it has to todays action.

Also - what data feed do you use for your trading - just IB's internal one?

Cheers




Bronte said:


> 5389 High
> 5301 Now  Down *-88 Points*


----------



## Bronte

prophetable said:


> Hi Bronte and all,
> For a beginning trader im a little confused at the trading range youve just mention in the quote below?
> Im looking at the open at 09:50 of 5347, then the down move to the low of 5301 at 11:24 and then the rise to the end of RTH at 15:30 it got back to 5347.
> In my (limited experience) isnt that a range of 46 points?
> Where does the -88 come from? Another previous RTH trading periods high?
> Sorry for the questions - i just dont understand what you are doing here and what relevance it has to todays action.
> 
> Also - what data feed do you use for your trading - just IB's internal one?
> We have tried a few. IB's internal one is ok.
> 
> Cheers




Yesterdays High was 5389  So the 'Downwards' move was 88 points

Good luck with your trading & 'Welcome' to ASF posting


----------



## prophetable

Thanks Bronte.
I will need all the luck to succeed in this caper.
Im a long time lurker as i just havent been trading live for 2 years.
In that time ive done a lot of research and demoing. If i am successful in this, i will be posting on the forum somewhere.
Even though i have mainly traded the ES, 6E and the 6J - i have been also test trading the SPI. I like it as im in WA - so the hours are better. Also - im sick of late night ES trading for fatigue reasons.

Also - from my first post - Im still wondering what data feed you use for the SPI?

Cheers


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## Bronte

Presently we only use IB's internal, as you say it is ok.

We do a lot of 'drawing charts by hand'......

Please do not ask, it's a very long story.


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## tech/a

I us and used E signal for the SPI when I traded it.


----------



## prophetable

Thanks Tech.
I subscribed to Esignal EOD / live data for a year this year so i could do calendar spreads on commodity futures.
That has just ended so i want to shop around depending on quality. It is becoming more important the shorter the timeframe i am looking at trading. 
Am thinking of NT with Amp and CQG. Already have an IB acct. But depending on order management and semi automation available in TWS.
Still testing and putting it all together as im not an expert in TWS.

Cheers


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

Nice strong open, nabbed 21 ticks from 54 to 75, now I'll see if I can slowly give it back by the close  

I expect we will go higher, test the weeks high from Monday at least, but we shall see


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## tech/a

Bronte

How's the Directional day going?
Was yesterday directional?
Is today?
Do you need 2 or three or more in a row?


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:


> *Directional Days are when the train leaves the station and keeps on moving........ *
> 
> If this is the case and the SPI has moved away from strong *'Support or Resistance'*
> then we move our stoplosses to 'Breakeven' sometimes taking some profit and reducing our contracts.
> 
> How many contracts do we Buy or Sell ?? This depends on the trade and level of:  Risk:Reward
> *Time is very important in our analysis.* We also consider Gaps, Double Top/Bottoms etc etc etc




Today the SPI Opened at 5356 went lower...
We saw 5349 Low, then *broke the Open *to 5367
tech/a we *do not *consider this a 'Directional Day'

Yesterday the SPI Opened at 5345 went lower...
We saw 5301 Low   +44 points
tech/a we *DO* consider this as a 'Directional Day'

+ / - 1 or 2 points from the Open is not a problem
+ / - 7 or 8 points from the Open is a 'Shake out'


----------



## Bronte

tech/a said:


> Bronte
> 
> How's the Directional day going? *Not a Directional Day today tech/a*
> Was yesterday directional? *Yes*
> Is today? *No*
> Do you need 2 or three or more in a row?



Depends on the 'Big Picture' Price action, Time, and if we are 'Day trading' or holding on.
ie Trailing Stoploss and letting our profits grow.


----------



## dlineinvestor

Bronte said:


> Depends on the 'Big Picture' Price action, Time, and if we are 'Day trading' or holding on.
> ie Trailing Stoploss and letting our profits grow.




Hi, at this point do you have any swing positions from yesterday or today ?
Cheers


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:


> Yes, the train leaves the station *every* day.....
> 
> I am just concentrating on 'Trading the SPI' *Open* here on this thread.
> 
> Twenty years of Trading the SPI




Of course we see opportunities during the trading day, and take them.

We decided that placing orders 'Before' the SPI Opens to eliminate 'hindsight orders'.


----------



## Bronte

dlineinvestor said:


> Hi, at this point do you have any swing positions from yesterday or today ?
> Cheers



We have to be so very careful of questions like this..... 'hindsight'
So we are *only* discussing and *Trading The SPI (Open) *here.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:


> *Directional Days are when the train leaves the station and keeps on moving........ *
> 
> If this is the case and the SPI has moved away from strong *'Support or Resistance'*
> then we move our stoplosses to 'Breakeven' sometimes taking some profit and reducing our contracts.
> 
> How many contracts do we Buy or Sell ?? This depends on the trade and level of:  Risk:Reward
> Time is very important in our analysis. We also consider Gaps, Double Top/Bottoms etc etc etc




Think of the train at the station, it may rock backwards and forwards slightly whilst waiting for passengers to get on. (traders)
When the train leaves the Station (Open or Strong Support / Resistance) it shouldn't look back.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:


> Think of the train at the station, it may rock backwards and forwards slightly whilst waiting for passengers to get on. (traders)
> When the train leaves the Station (Open or Strong Support / Resistance) it shouldn't look back.




Now the train is at Perth railway station.     (Open or Support / Resistance)
*Are we going to Fremantle or Joondalup ?*   ( Up or Down / *Buy or Sell*)

There are signs to look out for:
The direction the train came into the station. (Market direction / Price action)
Sign posts, sign on front, timetable, people etc etc  (Indicators)

If you get the direction wrong...... no problem get off at next station. (-8 max)
If you get the direction correct..... enjoy. 

Risk -8 max : Reward *+8+*
Keep stats see if you can beat 50%


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:


> Think of the train at the station, it may rock backwards and forwards slightly whilst waiting for passengers to get on. (traders)
> When the train leaves the Station (Open or Strong Support / Resistance) it shouldn't look back.




SPI Opened today (EOM) @ 5388

Rocked backwards and forwards slightly (90H) then headed South at 'great' speed, and didn't look back.

We have seen 5330 Low.    Down 58 points

A nice example of a 'Directional Day' tech/a 

Risk of -8 points : Possible Reward of +58 points


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## tech/a

Wow that's a direction.
see where it is at the close.

Bronte.

Post what your going to do
Not what you've done.
Much better for credibility.


----------



## Bronte

tech/a said:


> Wow that's a direction.
> see where it is at the close.
> 
> Bronte.
> 
> Post what your going to do
> Not what you've done. *?????  lol*
> Much better for credibility.




Lol, you are a joker tech/a.  

Hopefully for the next 20 years....
We will trade the SPI Directional Days .

Jump out of bed, place our orders and IF in profit, work our TSL
IF not, go back to bed. lol


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## stun

Where did you have your sell order Bronte? When did you take profit?


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:


> It is often quoted that the SPI is _*"Opened by amateurs, closed by professionals"
> *_
> My intention is to use this thread as a place for preopen SPI discussion.
> 
> Any / all market calls will be made *before* the SPI opens. 09:49:30
> 
> A maximum Stoploss of eight points will be used, at all times.
> 
> Only the exits will be live.
> 
> All SPI traders are welcome to post.
> 
> Please enjoy......






Bronte said:


> We have to be so very careful of questions like this..... 'hindsight'
> So we are *only* discussing and *Trading The SPI (Open) *here.




Hi stun, Welcome to this thread and 'Thank you' for your interest.
We decided early in this thread not to discuss: 'What we have done' .....sorry.


----------



## tech/a

Bronte said:


> Hi stun, Welcome to this thread and 'Thank you' for your interest.
> Unfortunately we are not allowed to discuss: What we have done .....sorry.




Haha 

Not allowed----- Its the Secret Service you know!

Gets hard when questions are asked.


----------



## Bronte

Not at all tech/a,
It is a lot easier to answer questions.

We answered many 'Directional Day' trading questions,
back in 2004 on 'Trading the SPI' thread on another forum. ?

Also on the 'Trading the SPI' thread here starting on: 13th July 2005


----------



## tech/a

Bronte said:


> SPI Opened today (EOM) @ 5388
> 
> Rocked backwards and forwards slightly (90H) then headed South at 'great' speed, and didn't look back.
> 
> We have seen 5330 Low.    Down 58 points
> 
> A nice example of a 'Directional Day' tech/a
> 
> Risk of -8 points : Possible Reward of +58 points




What happened to this rule?




> Any / all market calls will be made before the SPI opens. 09:49:30




Your late!
An 3/4hr earlier and your Directional day wasn't directional.

Your a trickster Bronte!


----------



## Bronte

Please reread the post tech/a.

The post is just market commentary.

That is all.........


----------



## Bronte

tech/a said:


> Bronte
> 
> How's the Directional day going?
> Was yesterday directional?
> Is today?
> Do you need 2 or three or more in a row?




The majority of our recent posts have been just to answer your questions.


----------



## tech/a

Oh I see.
Just chatting no trades taken.

Confirms my thoughts.


----------



## tech/a

Bronte said:


> The majority of our recent posts have been just to answer your questions.




Yes very accommodating


----------



## Bronte

Lol,  Friday afternoon joke........:topic   I know.

*What is the difference between God and our very own tech/a ?*


----------



## burglar

Bronte said:


> Lol,  Friday afternoon joke........:topic   I know.
> 
> *What is the difference between God and our very own tech/a ?*




Shoe size!!:


----------



## Bronte

Nice try burglar  lol
Anyone else ????????
*What is the difference between God and our very own tech/a ?*


----------



## dlineinvestor

Bronte said:


> Nice try burglar  lol
> Anyone else ????????
> *What is the difference between God and our very own tech/a ?*




One is real one is the shadow


----------



## stun

Bronte said:


> Hi stun, Welcome to this thread and 'Thank you' for your interest.
> We decided early in this thread not to discuss: 'What we have done' .....sorry.




Thanks Bronte, I must have misread the post as post-event advice that you went short from the open. 
Must say, my pre-open sell order at 5397 never got close to being hit. I should have posted my order intention here prior to 0850, but will try to remember before my next pre-open order. 
But where was your post, prior to 0850, being that this was a directional day?


----------



## tech/a

Bronte said:


> *What is the difference between God and our very own tech/a ?*




Nah

Cant think of any!


----------



## Bronte

Hi stun, there is not a lot of interest, 'Trading The SPI (Open) here at ASF at present.
So there wasn't any early morning post here from us.


----------



## Bronte

tech/a said:


> Nah
> 
> Cant think of any!



You are not joking either, Are you tech/a ?


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:


> Lol,  Friday afternoon joke........:topic   I know.
> 
> *What is the difference between God and our very own tech/a ?*




Of course the answer is..... confirmed by tech/a post #181 above.

*God doesn't loiter around stock forums thinking that he is tech/a* :


----------



## burglar

Bronte said:


> *What is the difference between God and our very own tech/a ?*




God loves tech/a but 
... tech/a does not reciprocate.


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## Bronte

Good one burglar 
Have a great weekend.


----------



## dlineinvestor

Sycom close 5294
RTH close 5337

Morning move: "UP"
SPI to open and close gap above to 5318 (FRIDAY LOD)
A move up of 24 pts 

Not sure if it will move higher past 5318 or become resistance
Next resistance above that, will be 5334

That's the plan Stan .... Could I be completely wrong ?


----------



## tech/a

Well you won't be wrong as the spread will be closed within a few ticks.
You've covered all bases after then.

So really it's just a commentary on the obvious.


----------



## dlineinvestor

tech/a said:


> Well you won't be wrong as the spread will be closed within a few ticks.
> You've covered all bases after then.
> 
> So really it's just a commentary on the obvious.



That what this thread is really .... just some fun between posters.
Do you really think I'm going to stick to this if on open it moves in the opposite ?


----------



## Bronte

tech/a said:


> China is stimulating it's massive economy ----- Australia has just brokered a free trade agreement with it's biggest customer.
> 
> Only one direction.



Good morning guys..... :cup:

Thanks for your input dlineinvestor.

So what are you actually saying tech/a ??
As you got your last obvious commentary (as above) incorrect. 
SPI was 5360 this time last week, now lower by 70 points.  ??


----------



## tech/a

Bronte said:


> Good morning guys..... :cup:
> 
> Thanks for your input dlineinvestor.
> 
> So what are you actually saying tech/a ??
> As you got your last obvious commentary (as above) incorrect.
> SPI was 5360 this time last week, now lower by 70 points.  ??




Sorry I thought it was clear.



> Well you won't be wrong as the spread will be closed within a few ticks.
> You've covered all bases after then.
> 
> So really it's just a commentary on the obvious.




I typed it slower for you.

my commentary was and is a macro observation like your directional moves.
Could be today---this week--next month next year but from a macro view 
one way--up.


----------



## Bronte

*NO*

This is *'Trading The SPI (Open)'* Thread

We are only interested in the OPEN.

Of course you know this.......


----------



## stun

Thanks for your thoughts D-Line, what is RTH?


----------



## tech/a

Not all one direction (That's a great boy band name!----missed my calling.) eh Bronte.

I'm sure you've jumped ship some time around the open.


----------



## tech/a

tech/a said:


> Not all one direction (That's a great boy band name!----missed my calling.) eh Bronte.
> 
> I'm sure you've jumped ship some time around the open.




Heavens
Another directional day---*HELL* its almost *GOD* like!


----------



## pavilion103

tech/a said:


> Heavens Another directional day---HELL its almost GOD like!




I almost got on around 5265 but wanted a retest. I didn't wanna risk getting chopped!

Gee it's been moving...


----------



## Bronte

tech/a said:


> I " work " because I love it.
> Not because I have to.
> And good luck to you Bronte.




*Trading The SPI *(or any other index) sure beats working for a living.
Fourteen years ago when we both ceased to work anymore. 
We actually loved our jobs as well tech/a.


----------



## tech/a

]



Bronte said:


> *NO*
> 
> This is *'Trading The SPI (Open)'* Thread
> 
> We are only interested in the OPEN.
> 
> Of course you know this.......





Please explain?




Bronte said:


> *Trading The SPI *(or any other index) sure beats working for a living.
> Fourteen years ago when we both ceased to work anymore.
> We actually loved our jobs as well tech/a.




Type slowly I'm old.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:


> It is often quoted that the SPI is _*"Opened by amateurs, closed by professionals"
> *_
> My intention is to use this thread as a place for preopen SPI discussion.
> 
> Any / all market calls will be made *before* the SPI opens. 09:49:30
> 
> A maximum Stoploss of eight points will be used, at all times.
> 
> Only the exits will be live.
> 
> *All SPI traders are welcome to post.
> 
> *Please enjoy......



What is there to explain ?   This is just a FUN thread.  

*On this thread *we are only interested in: *Trading The SPI (Open)*


----------



## tech/a

Bronte said:


> What is there to explain ?   This is just a FUN thread.
> 
> *On this thread *we are only interested in: *Trading The SPI (Open)*




Oh I see.
That's pretty clear.

*One set of Rules for Bronte*---This is a Fun Thread
*And another for us*. We are only interested in the SPI (Open)---on THIS thread.

Carry on----enjoy your retirement.
Enjoy your trading.


----------



## Bronte

tech/a said:


> Type slowly I'm old.



You sure are tech/a.


tech/a said:


> Carry on----enjoy your retirement.
> Enjoy your trading.




Thank you


----------



## stun

Bearish Divergance on Chart, down today? 

Can't work out a pre-open sell bid as looks likely to open above significant support at 5350. Did have an sell order at 5349 but have pulled it.


----------



## Bronte

tech/a said:


> China is stimulating it's massive economy ----- Australia has just brokered a free trade agreement with it's biggest customer.
> 
> Only one direction.



It's been all downhill since this post.

:1zhelp::error::holysheep::xmaswave

Now tech/a, could you please predict a bear market.


----------



## Bronte

*Christmas Rally Please*

:santa: :chimney :xmastree :xmaswave :santa:


----------



## tech/a

Merry Xmas Bronte.

You have your Xmas rally.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:


> *Christmas Rally Please*:




Thank you, we certainly do. Dow *+ 709.28 *


----------



## tech/a

Bronte said:


> It's been all downhill since this post.
> 
> :1zhelp::error::holysheep::xmaswave
> 
> Now tech/a, could you please predict a bear market.




Think you've been a bit harsh Bronte.
From the time of my initial post 22/11
Its dropped around 40 ticks? 
Hardly a decisive direction!

Ill let you know when I alter my original view.



> China is stimulating it's massive economy ----- Australia has just brokered a free trade agreement with it's biggest customer.
> 
> Only one direction.




This isn't the sort of thing that sees a market react next day or month
Could be a year.---
But Murphy could stuff it up.

Ill let you know when I see him.


----------



## Bronte

Sorry, not right again tech/a.


tech/a said:


> China is stimulating it's massive economy ----- Australia has just brokered a free trade agreement with it's biggest customer.
> Only one direction.



Saturday 22nd November Sycom Closed at 5360
Monday  24th November SPI opened at *5360*




Bronte said:


> It's been all downhill since this post.
> 
> :1zhelp::error::holysheep::xmaswave
> 
> Now tech/a, could you please predict a bear market.



Tuesday 16th December Sycom Low was 5119
Wednesday 17th December SPI Low was *5124*

5360 - 5120 =    More like a *240 point drop *tech/a


----------



## tech/a

Bronte said:


> Sorry, not right again tech/a.
> 
> Saturday 22nd November Sycom Closed at 5360
> Monday  24th November SPI opened at *5360*
> 
> 
> 
> Tuesday 16th December Sycom Low was 5119
> Wednesday 17th December SPI Low was *5124*
> 
> 5360 - 5120 =    More like a *240 point drop *tech/a




Maybe I'm not alone Bronte.

Some wonderful opportunity *RIGHT* now.

Have a great Xmas and safe New Year.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15355&page=18&p=854305&posted=1#post854305



> China is stimulating it's massive economy ----- Australia has just brokered a free trade agreement with it's biggest customer.
> Only one direction.


----------



## Bronte

:xmastree *Merry Christmas to all at ASF, keep safe over the holidays.* :xmastree


----------



## tech/a

Happy new year from Sydney Harbor

Looks like that 240 tick negative was chewed up
This year
Have a great and safe 2015


----------



## Bronte

:band :bier: *'Happy New Year' *:bier: :alcohol: :band

*To: Joe & All our SPI followers. "Thanks for a Great Year".*


----------



## Daytiger

Bronte said:


> :band :bier: *'Happy New Year' *:bier: :alcohol: :band
> 
> *To: Joe & All our SPI followers. "Thanks for a Great Year".*




Bronte - Its Daytiger here, first day on this site or any blog for that matter, I liked and read all your great stuff on trading the spi at the open, I also trade the spi have been doing so since 2007 - Have made some top money of the years along with some extremely bad losses - I have found the last 4 months very difficult - I used to mainly trade from 4pm and during the night, burnt a lot lately and will be concentrating more on the morning trading - not really sure if you are still active on this site


----------



## danc

Daytiger said:


> Bronte - Its Daytiger here, first day on this site or any blog for that matter, I liked and read all your great stuff on trading the spi at the open, I also trade the spi have been doing so since 2007 - Have made some top money of the years along with some extremely bad losses - I have found the last 4 months very difficult - I used to mainly trade from 4pm and during the night, burnt a lot lately and will be concentrating more on the morning trading - not really sure if you are still active on this site




Interesting thread............................................


----------

