# Anyone here successful?



## aniBeasts (25 October 2010)

Can someone here put their hand up and honestly say that they made money trading? 
I am really getting over being sucked into these $5000+ courses. 
I have been to a number of free webinars/seminars SITM, Optionetics, HUBB, yourtradingroom... etc. and always seems there's one better than the other. I have been luckily thus far as I don't have $5000 to spare. 
Is there anyone who started with as little as $500? (all that I have left from my original $3500 after dodgy TLS shares + bad recommendations from blueskyreport (maybe a bad time I got into the market).


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## Sdajii (26 October 2010)

Yeah, I'll put my hand up and say that. Call it beginner's luck which will eventually expire or raw innate talent, but I fairly consistently make profits on my trades (with some exceptions, of course). On average have done very well, at least so far. I've been trading since 2008, so not all that long, still under three years.

I have not read any books or taken any courses. I never paper traded. I started out with a little under $2,000.

Something any wise trader or investor of any kind will tell you (and so will I, not that I'm necessarily wise) is that everyone is different and what works well for someone else may not work for you.


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## brty (26 October 2010)

It depends on how you define successful. I am also a beginner, only been doing this for 30 years, yet there is always something new to learn.

I make money out of trading fairly consistently, yet if I used only $500 to trade the way I do I would go broke very quickly. You need to start saving and get a decent grubstake to start. Using $500 will see brokerage eat your money very quickly, or a CFD provider snaffle your lot.

Personally i think you need to add a couple of zeros on the end of your starting amount to be a part time trader.

brty


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## Sdajii (26 October 2010)

It is a long time now since I've made a trade under $5,000 because of the brokerage issue, but I don't think you need to avoid making a trade or two of $500-$1,000 when you're starting out. Even if you don't make money on it, you can learn the basics of how it's all done. For someone like me who wanted to learn by doing it rather than reading books and doing the theory to death, it was good to make my first trade quite a small one.

You certainly don't need to add "a couple" of zeroes to the end of $500 to get started, and I don't think there is a problem with getting started the way I did, with less than $2k to your name. You don't have to escalate quickly, you can even just buy $1k worth of shares and sit on them for a few years if you really want to. Nothing wrong with that at all.


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## ParleVouFrancois (26 October 2010)

I've changed my style in shares recently from trading to investing. I used to sell out at around 10 - 15% or cut my losses at around 2-3% it was quite successful but I tried out deep value investing in the small/medium cap of the ASX and I have never looked back.

Personally I believe that the smaller caps have little to no insto coverage (market cap too small to be bothered to invest in for 99% of instos and sophisticated investors), so if you can buy something worth a dollar for 60 cents, then sell it at 80 cents you'll be able to make money relatively quickly (how I'd describe my style of investing/trading).

I don't trade a system or any set values, like real mining projects or factories etc, each company is different and has quirks and certain traits, and thus should be treated as unique. This understanding of small companies that most people couldn't be bothered reading about is my "edge".

That all being said I tried very short term trading for a while, and blew up, yet I'm ridiculously successful thus far with deep value investing (longer time frames are also less stressful). Perhaps you simply need to try out different systems and methods. Like the companies being unique as I mentioned earlier, people are also unique and we all require different styles to invest.

To say you'd need anything above 10k to start out is ridiculous, even holding 100% of your portfolio of 5k in one share is feasible imo (not advisable depending on individual circumstances etc) but it's possible to make a beginning at that.


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## noirua (26 October 2010)

All my life I've had no problem in being successful at being unsuccessful.

 Others who are also unsuccessful setup shop persuading them they can make them successful and sure enough they're unsuccessful as well; would you believe it?

Basically guys, if you look around for others to wave a magic wand and make you successful, you remain unsuccessful. Worse of all is being temporarily successful as you might even fool yourself into believing it.

If you want luck then put a few dollars on the lotto each week. I do it and never win but it doesn't matter that much.

If you've lots of time invest widely and don't go for high risk. If you can double your money every 10 years and add savings to it you'll get rich slowly.

In my position time is running out and I take high risks. Like many I have good pension funds and other assets to fall back on - I've done the high risk pain bit and it's not worth it.


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## pacestick (26 October 2010)

Fully agree wirh Noirua  I have been doing this for ten years  now  i sometimes trade and sometimes take a longer investment frame it depends on the unlocked value i see in the share  I have only had two losses although several did not go as far as i expected  In both cases they were shares i had bought at what i considereda low price but they were taken over before  they got to the stage that i had got back my brokerage . Every time i  go topurchase i ask myself can i afford to lose this money if the answer is no i dont buy

I have never  done any courses just jumped in naively  admittedly timidly at first then  refined my system over the  years


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## tech/a (26 October 2010)

> _*In my position time is running out and I take high risks.*_ Like many I have good pension funds and other assets to fall back on - _*I've done the high risk pain bit and it's not worth it*._




?????


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## joea (26 October 2010)

tech/a said:


> ?????





It make you wonder does it not?

I thought trading was about learning, and improving.
Developing a trading plan, money management etc.

Its like learning a new language, relative to crowd decisions and indecisions.

Learning the market, takes time and effort.

When it is done well, it is mentally stimulating.

In Valentino Rossi's book " he says there is no such thing as luck, only good and bad decisions." With good decisions you stay on the bike. He ought to know as he was more off it, than on it when he started.

If you win the lotto you are not lucky. It was a good decision to buy a ticket!

I get a kick out of seeing a Doji at the end of the day on a chart. Because the crowd do not know what to do, buy or sell.

Anyway for those who gamble on the market. Good luck!
For those who  are trading the market for a profit . GOOD DECISIONS!!!!!

Cheers.


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## nioka (26 October 2010)

$500 is an amount that is hard to turn into $5000 but not impossible. The first question to answer is "are you prepared to lose it". The next question is how much effort will you be prepared to make and the third is how much patience do you have. All these are equally important.

Assuming you are prepared to lose it, you must be prepared to do more research to invest that $500 as you would to invest $50,000, simply because you can not spread the risk. Patience comes in straight away because you will have to make up brokerage before you start to show a profit.

So my suggestion is to pick a stock, do a lot of research and ,if you convince yourself it is a goer then invest and watch what happens. Research doesnt stop after you buy but you must keep up to date and decide whether to "hold em or fold em" daily.

Good luck, (you make your own luch in this game most of the time).


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## damien275x (26 October 2010)

I have been successful so far. I have been doing some analysis and reading, but I am sure it's to do with right place right time.

Put $9500 in, took $11500 out in 4 months. Ended up putting it into ASX just before it went into a trading halt and gained 25% because of that merge.

I guess this is nothing but dumb luck, but I am learning how the media/other factors and announcements influence a share price. 

I don't really care about the loss factor, if I hit $0 tomorrow I wouldn't be too affected as I'm young, no kids mortgage or commitment yet.


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## noie (26 October 2010)

To the OP, just about anyone can be successful at anything now-a-days, with so much information out there anyone can self learn, practise + repeat.

If you are asking yourself,

_Is it possible?_, work on yourself, not others.

when you change your thinking to 

_I know it is possible, how do I make it work for me_ then you are a step closer.

I have been doing this for 10 years now, and following my heart around the word learning about the different markets as I go  AUS-UK-EU-US-JPN-AUS.

I have promised myself if I ever believe I have figured *IT *out then I will cash in my trading accounts and head for the exit.


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## dahussla (26 October 2010)

I am trying my hand at this now...

My portfolio went up $1000 just yesterday so hopefully this trend continues...


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## Tysonboss1 (26 October 2010)

aniBeasts said:


> Can someone here put their hand up and honestly say that they made money trading?
> I am really getting over being sucked into these $5000+ courses.
> I have been to a number of free webinars/seminars SITM, Optionetics, HUBB, yourtradingroom... etc. and always seems there's one better than the other. I have been luckily thus far as I don't have $5000 to spare.
> Is there anyone who started with as little as $500? (all that I have left from my original $3500 after dodgy TLS shares + bad recommendations from blueskyreport (maybe a bad time I got into the market).




If you only have $500 all you have to do is save $100 a week for 5 weeks and you will double your money.

If you have onlt $500 your biggest problem is your personal money management, and becoming a succesfull trader will not help solve your poor money habits.

I suggest focusing on spending less than your earn consistently every month, build up a capital base in an index fund. If then over time you become more educated you could start to invest your own capital and maybe put a portion into some trading operations.


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## J&M (26 October 2010)

I have been moderately successful after starting trading 9 months ago 
I cant to the paper money find it boring no thrill of a win or sort out a loss 

I did start by joining a Subscription to a news letter which the advisor was up 80% plus on share last year 

I copied a few of his tips but brought in too high (not knowing that share can change dramatically from day to day and week to week). That's how new I was !!! 

So took a step back started to read more on shares looked at charts ( which I am still taking all this in) and joined this web site and a few others.  I read the shares on here from the first post to get an idea of the Company and the Company's long term prospects.  This can take a while but well worth the effort     

I only put in from 1k to 6k per company. I need to spread the loss if they do go down. This is how I learn 

I have a Building Company, Property, and an Accommodation rental property in a Wine area in Qld.   

Now I am up 18% ($7000) and still learning

So I can loose but I am a bad looser and will always come back till I take a Win. 
This is long term for me. 

Hope this has been some help for you 

James


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## Assasin (26 October 2010)

--------------------------------------------------------------
 I have also never paid for a course however I would be very happy to pay to spend an afternoon or a lunch with some of the respected posters on this site. The assistance I have recieved on PM's has been very overwhelming.
 My advice, find your stock, read the entire thread, ask questions of the knowledgable posters( you'll soon work out who they are), respect what they say as well as research, research, reseach.
I also agree that an hour or two per day reading through a forum on a particular share will teach more than a book.
And yes, you can start with $5000 and make a decent earning in 12 months.

Currently enjoying and holding AUT SEA MHM


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## tech/a (26 October 2010)

> And yes, you can start with $5000 and make a decent earning in 12 months




What in your view is a decient earning on $5k in 12 mths?


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## Assasin (26 October 2010)

tech/a said:


> What in your view is a decient earning on $5k in 12 mths?




All I can give you are my experiences and stocks I've worked with. I'm sure there are many more experienced traders with better info but here goes.
$5000 of AUT 12months ago approx 30c today $1.33ish, therefore $5000= over $20000. A similar number for MHM and SEA I've only had for 1 month but are up 18%.
Fortunately I was able to start with a bit more than $5000 but I'll stand by my claim that a decent earning can be derived from a 5k start.
We havn't even started talking about how the real smart guys would have bought and sold in the troughs on the way up.
  Now, do you want me to describe the flip side. PLA and UNX= lost big-time but from information gained on this site was able to bail out and put into successes.
 Cheers and thanks to all posters.


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## nunthewiser (26 October 2010)

tech/a said:


> What in your view is a decient earning on $5k in 12 mths?




turning 5k into 500k like everyone else does here,

cmon mate you should know this


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## tech/a (26 October 2010)

nunthewiser said:


> turning 5k into 500k like everyone else does here,
> 
> cmon mate you should know this




Just fish'n as you know.

Ive got the sneaky suspicion that our friendly assassin is hinting that you can earn a living from $5k.

Hopefully I'm wrong and he is suggesting with the right $5k investment a good return is possible.
Id argue that losing the $5k for most novice traders is more likely.


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## J&M (26 October 2010)

tech/a said:


> Just fish'n as you know.
> 
> Ive got the sneaky suspicion that our friendly assassin is hinting that you can earn a living from $5k.
> 
> ...




This is true I lost about 5k to 6k when I first started 
Then took a hard look at what I was doing 
read and read more if you dont understand then ask someone 

James


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## nielsend (26 October 2010)

Spend your money on reputable trading books. Then decide on a product / market to trade. Next buy Amibroker and teach yourself how to develop systems / money management (Howard Bandy / Van Tharp). Then, here's the best part and probably the main part, spend approx 60 hrs a week for 50 weeks a year, over 5 years. Record every single intricate detail of what you have done, create a database for everything, then spend countless hours pouring over your records to determine your approach.
That's your apprenticeship done. Then you may have a an edge and start trading ...................................


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## nielsend (26 October 2010)

Then, here's the best part and probably the main part, spend approx 60 hrs a week for 50 weeks a year, over 5 years, doing screen time.


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## nulla nulla (26 October 2010)

nielsend said:


> Spend your money on reputable trading books. Then decide on a product / market to trade. Next buy Amibroker and teach yourself how to develop systems / money management (Howard Bandy / Van Tharp). Then, here's the best part and probably the main part, spend approx 60 hrs a week for 50 weeks a year, over 5 years. Record every single intricate detail of what you have done, create a database for everything, then spend countless hours pouring over your records to determine your approach.
> That's your apprenticeship done. Then you may have a an edge and start trading ...................................




Good post, take note there is no silver bullet or magic formula, 95% perspiration and 5% inspiration.


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## Sean K (26 October 2010)

LOL


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## joea (26 October 2010)

to anibeast

You could say there are 3 basic golden rules to trade.
1 Trend
2 Support and Resistance
3 Volume 

I have read the posts to you and will comment on books.
Every book you read has something worthwhile to absorb.
You are after the one book with everything in it. Sorry, not written yet and you would need a wheelbarrow to move it.

I will attempt to explain a chart.
There are 4 stages to any chart that keeps repeating itself over time.
Stage 1 Consolidation.
Stage 2 Advancing.
Stage 3 Top area.
Stage 4 Decline. 

Then its starts all over again. (basically)

I have attached a chart of Mak which is a phosphate show.
Now you would have seen on tv that WA and NT have the best economies.
Mak is in NT. Phosphate is in the news.
So on the chart are the 4 stages.
I have two  indicators showing its oversold. Volume is so so.
If you were looking at this chart in 28th july as the 13 ma broke the 34 ma and traded it you would have traded stage 2 and sold.

So the point is if the price moves up through the 34 ma it may head to 49 cents. Why because Fibonacci extension shows 49 to 55 cents is the initial
target. Now it would be nice if the volume starts to move up.

Now when the traders digest that this stock is subject to a MOU with an Asian group to secure the funding, you may see it move.

If this all happens, you will see a stock consolidate and move into stage 2.
So that what it is all about. Resistance will be at 45 and 60 cents. My major charting program has a bug and I cannot produce a chart to post, so I am using Incredible Charts.

Cheers


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## nunthewiser (26 October 2010)

Yep.

OR it could get smacked down in to the mid 20,s 

lower highs , lower lows all that kinda untechnical stuff.

I personally cant see any buy or entry indicators on that previous chart at this present moment

each to there own tho


i think the OP wanted answers not a  TA lesson/ramp tho


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## ROE (26 October 2010)

joea said:


> to anibeast
> I will attempt to explain a chart.
> There are 4 stages to any chart that keeps repeating itself over time.
> Stage 1 Consolidation.
> ...




What about 5 years charts on
ONT TRS and DMP
where do I get in and out? I couldnt figure it out even throw in the GFC in the mix so I just keep hang on to it


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## noirua (26 October 2010)

tech/a said:


> ?????




Fair enough with those ?????  I should have said: I took a lot of very high risks when I was a lot younger and had very little to fall back on; It was just not worth it.
Very many years later when I now have assets and pensions and additional pension rights not yet taken. It is worth taking higher risks now to try and achieve those goals that I set out to achieve but failed on before.
So a new investor should only, in my view, gamble a few dollars a week on the lotto.
Invest widely in very many sectors; this means investing in other countries as well because Australia isn't the only country in the World and who knows for certain what will happen further down the line.


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## joea (27 October 2010)

ROE said:


> What about 5 years charts on
> ONT TRS and DMP
> where do I get in and out? I couldnt figure it out even throw in the GFC in the mix so I just keep hang on to it




Hi.
In answer to that, those three stocks are probably doing you proud by buying and holding.

Because there are so many different types of traders with so many types of software, I see some of the new traders being confused.
If you are investing in quality stocks you may not want to get out.

I concentrate on emerging stocks. So I may trade in and out then hold.

The new traders are advised to purchase complex software.
Initially they may not need a complex software.
Incredible charts is cheap, $220 for Premium version. It has Dow 15 minutes delayed. It also has a scanning area, where you can share other traders scans while you learn. By utilising this software as the entry level, the new traders are not overextending themselves.
IC has its own forum, and Colin Twiggs produces a weekly newsletter on what USA, XJO and COMMODIES are doing each week. (or his opinion)

So you do not require a complex software to start trading.

Incidently, in all three stocks the stages are pretty clear. However when the charts are compressed for posting, its hard to see the moving average crossovers. Most traders would be happy to have them.

Finally, I was attempting to show a fellow trader an emerging stock that he can watch. He does not have to trade it.
New traders maybe better off trading the top 20 or top 100, rather going for rags to riches stocks. After all there are not too many like FMG. And it had the WA government involved.

Cheers


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## tech/a (27 October 2010)

nielsend said:


> Then, here's the best part and probably the main part, spend approx 60 hrs a week for 50 weeks a year, over 5 years, doing screen time.




OR
Develop a proven positive expectancy method which has been tested correctly and spend around 20 mins a day tops!

*What no one has pointed out* is that ANY THREE rules or more for that matter need to be tested to prove a positive expectancy in any trading environment.
Without that you simply have a list of rules which could lead you to ruin.
Most traders I see and meet have no idea if long-term their method can let alone will return a solid profit most have no idea how to find out. but are happy to trade with their "rules" and no proof they are giving them an edge.

The above is clearly evident in the posts above.
Sounds good but how do you KNOW its long term profitable.
If you can post up some results then I'll believe you.

Here is one of mine as an example I KNOW its profitable.
More to the point I have a blueprint which I can follow and monitor daily.
You either have to learn how to do this stuff OR find an educator who trades this way and follow them.


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## joea (27 October 2010)

Thanks T/A 

Well said.

In the perfect world there could be a post section for new traders looked after by about 3 mentors. They would learn to trade quickly and profitable
one would think. I see HotCopper traders had a day in Brisbane to compare
notes.

It is clear on this forum by the posts that there are some traders and some drovers. However we all have to start somewhere. "no offence to anyone".
We all have to admit we went up a few gullies, when we started.

That is the one benefit of a software forum. I was in one with Market Analyser, and there was a post for trading plans. So anybody could improve their plan by looking at others and back testing.
Obviously not everbody presented theirs but it was good education.
By gee you learn quickly with the correct info.

Obviously traders such as yourself may present info. from time to time that is 
worthy of following. 

As they say, "its all in the charts" if you want to look fo it.

Cheers


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## lamta20 (27 October 2010)

Hey i've been trading since last year in december, and i've been fortunate to get about 5-9% returns every month, which is good consistency, and if you work it out in 1 year thats good returns on your money. But in saying that i have spent 14k on courses and it has help me tremendously.


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## $20shoes (27 October 2010)

lamta20 said:


> Hey i've been trading since last year in december, and i've been fortunate to get about 5-9% returns every month, which is good consistency, and if you work it out in 1 year thats good returns on your money. But in saying that i have spent 14k on courses and it has help me tremendously.




Sheesh...the first 7 months of this year where sheer bloody torture for me...I felt as though I was getting in the market each day just to take another kick to the nuts. If you want to be successful, you NEED to know that your system has a positive expectancy. It gets you through to good times like the last quarter has produced.

If you trend follow (28-45% win rate), trading is about 10% satisfaction, and the rest is tedium and pain. 

Weary? Yes I am. :


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## Assasin (27 October 2010)

tech/a said:


> Just fish'n as you know.
> 
> Ive got the sneaky suspicion that our friendly assassin is hinting that you can earn a living from $5k.
> 
> ...





Come on Tech/a, you saw that I wrote a good earning not a good living. There is a massive difference.
I thought I was being baited a bit with your question.
You've now made my list. You owe me some assistance on a PM. LOL
Cheers


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## tminus (27 October 2010)

joea said:


> I will attempt to explain a chart.
> There are 4 stages to any chart that keeps repeating itself over time.
> Stage 1 Consolidation.
> Stage 2 Advancing.
> ...




Is there a common term for this categorisation, as Stan Weinstein uses this in his 1986 book.


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## Sir Osisofliver (27 October 2010)

tech/a said:


> OR
> Develop a proven positive expectancy method which has been tested correctly and spend around 20 mins a day tops!
> 
> *What no one has pointed out* is that ANY THREE rules or more for that matter need to be tested to prove a positive expectancy in any trading environment.
> ...




Hi Tech,

We've had chats before about systems but I hadn't seen a summary like the one you display here.  Probably because I've not been paying attention 

Mind if I ask a question?

In the ten year period that is referred to you've had a variety of dominant market styles. Does your system work in *all* of these or did you have to go through some process to learn which markets your system poorly performed?

Cheers

Sir O


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## Boggo (27 October 2010)

This my Metastock ASX 300 system, the dip seems to be in line with the dip in the market for 2008 to 2009.

What does yours do after 2008 tech/a ?

(click to expand)


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## tech/a (27 October 2010)

> Mind if I ask a question?
> 
> In the ten year period that is referred to you've had a variety of dominant market styles. Does your system work in all of these or did you have to go through some process to learn which markets your system poorly performed?




Not at all particularly if they are good ones--this is.

My experience is that systems will perform within a parameter of tested results provided the market isnt radically different to the data set used in testing. So a GFC will usually do the trick.

To design a system which "works"(Meaning performs profitably) in ALL market conditions isnt very likely as I doubt we have data sets which cover ALL market conditions.

All a system does (as you well know) is structure a set of conditions that if applied repetitively over time will produce a longterm outcome similar to those returned in testing.
The trick is to know when trading starts to operate outside the data set tested.
This can normally be seen in reflected results and seeing the system start to give results not seen in testing.
EG
Longer string of losses
Greater drawdown.
A large number of trades exiting.

You can of course develop switches which can turn a system on or off.
Most use index switches but Equity curve switches are also reputedly very good.Here the system keeps running in the background but new trades are not taken until the switch is in go mode.

Finally I think there should be a number of systems running (ideally) all with their own switching mechanism so something will be out performing something else at various times of Market performance bothe bullish and bearish.

This of course would only suit the sophisticated investor who would need around 3-5 systems each with approx $50K min operating.

A long topic Systems which may need a new thread.
If they took the ban off Weird (Dave) he would have some good input as well as he is an experienced Systems designer.
Im sure he'd behave!


*BOGGO*
Similar but Thats what youd expect! Its a long only system.


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## joea (27 October 2010)

tminus said:


> Is there a common term for this categorisation, as Stan Weinstein uses this in his 1986 book.




Yes this is from his book.

I have leant the book to people to read the one chapter and make a comment.
One comment was " the light is shining brighter". Another "the light came on".

My software has Relative Strength Comparison similar to what is used in the book. That way I use software to compare stock to stock, or sectors to XJO.
i.e. best stock in the best commodity in the  best sector.

Cheers.


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## RADV (27 October 2010)

I started with approx $2k, bought a few $500 parcels and signed up for their dividend reinvestment plans. For me it was a matter of needing something on the table in order to care enough to learn. Have I made money on these? Yes, but not much because they were quite safe blue chips. Just recently I've started dabbling a bit in smaller players and making much more in the way of profits.

I myself have never done a course, but then I am holding a long term view rather than actively trading. I bought a couple of good books, subscribed to magazines like Smart Investor, and read websites like The Bull and this one every day. There are plenty of free resources available, and you can learn so much by simply reading this site - I know I have 

By starting out small you learn how the share market works, how you react to it (don't panic!) and, most importantly in my view, patience!

And, no, I cannot quit my day job


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## ceasar73 (16 November 2010)

not yet
learning with every f-up though...


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## sammy84 (16 November 2010)

Successful by the fact I have a positive expectancy. Unsuccessful by the fact I still need to work full time and cannot afford a yacht with a helipad.


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## Synergy (17 November 2010)

Boggo said:


> This my Metastock ASX 300 system, the dip seems to be in line with the dip in the market for 2008 to 2009.
> 
> What does yours do after 2008 tech/a ?




Boggo is your plot live trading or simulated?
It's pretty impressive.


Tech/a?


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## tech/a (17 November 2010)

I traded a derivative of T/Trader (Similar but a little better than the one traded live for 5 yrs on "That other site") from 2002 to 2007 and its widley documented when I closed all out both here on ASF and elsewhere.

At the time Radge did say to me that I should keep trading it as it would in the longterm make new equity highs.
The $s at risk to me were too high so I pulled out.
I dont regret doing so but do acknowledge the experience of Nick who was/is right.

Not long after I closed out the system actually closed itself out of all trades.
It cannot be run live on Nicks site anymore (as he is licienced) and while its kept there as a reference I have fully intended to either start a blog for it or a forum with other interesting topics along the lines of system testing and design with technical analysis as the basis from novice to advanced. Evidently I can run it live without concern.


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## Synergy (17 November 2010)

The forum sounds like a great idea. I'd be keen to see that happen.

That other site is often a bit thin on new topics.


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## Boggo (17 November 2010)

Synergy said:


> Boggo is your plot live trading or simulated?
> It's pretty impressive.
> 
> Tech/a?




That is a real account (SMSF) and is a backtest result of my Metastock system that is shown on numerous charts on here.
That test is done on the ASX300 but throughout most of that accounts' time it was utilising the whole market.

I run three accounts using that same system.

It $ value actually went higher than that by using derivatives (instalment warrants) but it does not account for a big hit when my broker at the time (TraderDealer) accounts were all frozen when Opes Prime fell over.
Between the market turning down, a couple of bad stocks and three warrants (one which expired) that I held during that period all up cost about $68,000.

That was the difficult bit, watching your account dropping three to five thousand a day and not being able to do anything about it.

In theory I should be able to outperform the backtest by eyeballing ideal setups such as the one below (stopped out this morning).

(click to expand)


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## tech/a (17 November 2010)

Synergy said:


> The forum sounds like a great idea. I'd be keen to see that happen.
> 
> That other site is often a bit thin on new topics.




If you think about it without the general topics and individual stock discussion ASF would be very quiet as well.

Running a site purely on tech analysis would be in my view very difficult.
Particularly with hard core issues.
Anyway work (Idea) in progress.


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## youngone (19 November 2010)

Not me. 

I have been trading for about 4 months. First month went well. Dumb luck, it was, with Rio and SFR. since then every shares i have bought has been going down hill. I had 6k in 6 companies. sold 3, including Telstra. 

people always say research, research, research, all i see are just words words words. anyway i started out with 6k, now down to 5k. lossing about $200 per companies. im still holding on to them, waiting to see the rainbow.


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## exberliner1 (19 November 2010)

Back in 2006 during the mining boom I thew $10k at the market.

I had  a simple strategy in that I only invested in speculative mining stocks or their options.

When a stock doubled I sold half got my money back and bought into another.

Net result after about 7 months I had a portfolio of 9 stocks that had cost me nothing and still had my original cash.

AUM, CQTO, THXO, CVIO, were the first 4. Some doubled in less than a month. My record was JMSO wich went from 2c to 22c in 1 week just before Christmas 2006.

I left Australia in 2007 and dumped the lot into a self managed pension fund. These stocks (most converted from options to stocks by then) crashed during the crisis but are now mainly heading back up again.

Still it doesn't always work check out the earlier posts on the OVR thread here on ASF, it will go to $1.76 I wrote and 3 years later it is 13c ..... oops.

So simple lesson, when it doubles sell half get your cash back and buy something else - that way over time you end up with a free portfolio - wouldn't that be nice.

EB


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## sammy84 (19 November 2010)

exberliner1 said:


> So simple lesson, when it doubles sell half get your cash back and buy something else - that way over time you end up with a free portfolio - wouldn't that be nice.
> 
> EB





Lesson should be about when you cut your losses not your winners.


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## exberliner1 (19 November 2010)

OK .... but a lot of people seem to mees up profits too by either selling too early or even worse riding it up and all the way back down again.

If the underlying reason for buying a stock remains solid, resource, management etc and it falls why sell it can make sense to buy more and before someone writes losers average losers I know it is often wrong to do this.

My usual reason for selling something is because I lost faith in management's ability to deliver. I sold EXM and CDU at a loss for this reason.

Sure you could argue I was stupid to sell CDU at 2.48 as it is now around 4 but with the cash I freed up I bought SFR and AVBOB - 2 companies where I do believe in the management SFR up around 150% and AVBOB up around 200%.

I am not a big believer in stop losses as minor market swings have stopped me out of stocks I should have held in the past.

EB


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## slow_trader (19 November 2010)

Probably like alot of people on this forum I am very very new to investing/trading shares.  I started off with $5k initially and invested in 2 companies.  Saw some profits from that and thought this is an easy way to make money.  Threw in another $15k to bring my own investment to $20k.  This was in early September 2011.  Sure, everyone has some good luck, but eventually bad decisions will come back to bite you.  

In 6 weeks my portfolio stands at $30k.  Alot of that is good luck (probably most of it). I'm still learning alot, and this forum is a great resource.  

What I am having trouble with is sticking to my plan of selling if the share dips below 10% of cost price.  I believe that in order to be succseful you need to have a proven plan and stick to it.  A few times I have reluctantly sold at a 15% - 25% loss (hanging on to the dream of the SP suddenly gaining) I bought some NAB shares the other day believing I was doing the right thing by diversifying my portfolio (most of it is mining / exploration).  Those NAB shares have now fallen almost 10% and again, I am reluctant to sell because I hate taking a loss!  

For the more knowledgeable investors out there - I say thanks for taking the time to share that knowledge.  Is there anywhere on this forum where I can follow someones actual trades on a day to day basis?


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## steelinoz (19 November 2010)

i've always found like anything you have to have a firm strategy and don't deviate from it. minimize your losses and enlarge your gains. use all tools at your disposal, fundamental and technical, trade the ups and the downs. be aggressive with your trading but also carefull. never overconfident.

many times fudamentals are great, chart is fantastic, all the research points to a buy, so you buy in at $1.74 next day for no reason. i mean no bad announcements, etc. it drops to $1.64. say you sell out cause you took a loss. thats not following your strategy. if all your research said buy, then buy was right, stay with it and this is the magic knowing for how long. but if it is a good company it is going to go up again. (majority of the time)

but in all honesty you seem to have had a bad run and spent too much on training programs. (another guy telling you what to do with your own cash.) get a job, start saving, find a strategy, start paper trading, and when your ready come back and own it.


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## Julia (19 November 2010)

slow_trader said:


> In 6 weeks my portfolio stands at $30k.  Alot of that is good luck (probably most of it). I'm still learning alot, and this forum is a great resource.



Good for you in making a profit as a beginner.



> What I am having trouble with is sticking to my plan. I believe that in order to be succseful you need to have a proven plan and stick to it.



This is a comment that appears over and over again.  Whilst I appreciate the principle, how have you proved the plan in the first place, and even the best plans may need modification in response to altered market and global conditions.

I may be quite misinterpreting what some people are doing, but I keep getting a picture of people with some poorly conceived plan which is failing to make them money, nonetheless saying doggedly to themselves, "I have to stick to my plan".


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## Synergy (20 November 2010)

Julia said:


> I may be quite misinterpreting what some people are doing, but I keep getting a picture of people with some poorly conceived plan which is failing to make them money, nonetheless saying doggedly to themselves, "I have to stick to my plan".




Having a poorly conceived plan is a lot better than having no plan at all though. Unless it's a very risky plan, if you stick to it chances are you won't lose money too fast. Even bad plans will likely cut losses before they get out of hand. And if you do lose money following a plan, at least you have a chance to look at why you are doing so. With no plan, there's no chance to analyse your method so there's no real way to look for areas to improve.


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## GumbyLearner (20 November 2010)

Not me!

I'm just here to make all you mega-rich dudes feel good! 

he he he ! 

It's so hard to make investments these days, with all the dumb morons around!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_-q-KodhAI

I like the Living End's lead breaks.


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## GumbyLearner (20 November 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5l8SRluJDQ&feature=related

Still touring


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## GumbyLearner (20 November 2010)

Doing well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YFrPdTw_ik&feature=related

Catchy LOL


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## FxTrader (20 November 2010)

slow_trader said:


> For the more knowledgeable investors out there - I say thanks for taking the time to share that knowledge.  Is there anywhere on this forum where I can follow someones actual trades on a day to day basis?




First, don't follow someone else's plan, it may not suit your trading psychology or style. Know thyself (are you a scalper, day trader, buy and hold value investor etc.), understand your motivation for trading and goals (and what you expect to get from it other than money) and learn to accept the consequences of your trading decisions (it's not the markets responsibility to generate profits for you).

If you aspire to being a full time or frequent trader then perhaps you should consider Tate and Bedford's mentoring program. If you're a longer term value investor then read Roger Montgomery's book and blog. 

Once you have a successful trading plan, stick to it and don't deviate. Stay humble, there are always new things to learn in trading.  Good luck.


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## the phantom (20 November 2010)

tech/a said:


> A long topic Systems which may need a new thread.
> If they took the ban off Weird (Dave) he would have some good input as well as he is an experienced Systems designer.
> Im sure he'd behave!




Hi Tech/A , I'm at least shortly back under my current internet persona.

I have no issue with this forum, or even it's guardians, and will behave ... however if they wish to throw me out ...np.

Hope to contribute to some system designing questions in the future, particularly being unbiased.


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## burglar (28 November 2010)

exberliner1 said:


> OK .... but a lot of people seem to mees up profits too by either selling too early or even worse riding it up and all the way back down again.
> 
> EB



exberliner,
I rode FCN Falcon Resources from $0.19 to $1.47 And all the way back to yo-yo land (oscillating between 0.30-0.50). I settled for $0.50 in the finish, still saying "they're worth more ... they've been $1.47". (this one woulda been my *great* start, had I not stuffed it)

Determined to never ever do that again, I took to selling too early. much more better, but as you point out, still wrong :error:



exberliner1 said:


> My usual reason for selling something is because I lost faith in management's ability to deliver. I sold EXM and CDU at a loss for this reason.
> 
> EB




When EXMOA gapped down ... too late to sell ... I would lose too much ...
I thought to buy more instead :error: later, I thought to buy fully paid ordinaries EXM :error: :error:

Newbies, listen very carefully, I am about tell you about the kiss of death!
I thought they could not go down much further. Then it dawns on me that they can consolidate! For instance 1 for every 10 held - and yes, the Share Price will plummet. As they have in excess of a billion shares, management may decide to consolidate! 



exberliner1 said:


> I am not a big believer in stop losses as minor market swings have stopped me out of stocks I should have held in the past.
> 
> EB



Agreed, but only in the case of volatile stocks.

Anyone here successful?
I've been successfull 3x, 
Winners are losers who never gave up.

EB thanks for sharing!


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## Market Depth (27 December 2010)

I've only managed to hit 3 home runs in 20 years, in my Trading business. Idependance Gold (IGO) There called Independance Group nowdays 0.30 - $8.20, Mincor Resourses (MCR) 0.25 - $4.50 on the downside, and Alligence Mining (AGM) 0.072 - 0.97 also on the downside. $4000 place on each trade at the start. Returned (IGO) $106,000 (MCR) $72,000 (AGM) $53,000.

All of these where closed out around 2007-2008 AGM and MCR where classic breakout trades, after long consolidation periods. IGO was brought to my attention through the mail. These came pretty late in my trading career, I doubt I would have managed them so well earlier in my trading. 

These trades where sucessful for me, but I much prefer to hit singles anyway, it's more my business style. You can make just as much money taking smaller chunks more often. The odd BIG ONE does help though

That's it for my home run swing. I hope every trader manages to hit at least one in their career


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## picker304 (27 December 2010)

Hello
I can honestly say I am now very successful but I also must say it took twenty years to acheive. Also spent alot of money on courses but had to add that to my losers side. I learned not to listen to the gurus and philosophers but to find my own way. My final destination was option trading. I haven't looked back. wish you best of luck.
picker


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## wolfie3556 (1 January 2011)

Hi.  Happy New Year and may it be a good one for all of us.

I have been playing around with share for a while now and no i haven't been successful yet (money wise that is) .

i had my stocks which have gone up and a few more which have gone down, but the most important thing to me that i'm learning.

i have started of with $500 which i saved $50 per week for 10 weeks and bought my first parcel of shares. how exciting that was at the time. i been doing it ever since, because that was all i could effort. I found You learn best when you have got something to lose. Watching your $500 go up $10 is awesome seening them go down $30 not so much.

In order to start with such a small amount you need a lot of patients. In 12 month you can accumulate $2600 this way plus any gains you may have made or minus any losses you have incurred.

First i looked for companies which paid good dividents, to help me to get some extra cash, and which were reasonable stable so i could accumulate and buy a 2nd parcel of shares when I saved up the money.

i know what about brokerage? I didn't really care as i knew getting to a $1000 or more would take even more patients and i have only so much. 

I plotted along and I am working on my own strategy and as many have said before no one can do that one for you. 

Hopefully this is of some help to you.

cheers

wolfie


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