# Please Help Me - I have a disorder called Bias



## satanoperca (4 February 2010)

How does one remove bias from decision making?

It seems to infiltrate ever decision from trading to general life?

Comments and suggested methods to rid my mind of this insidious disorder would be much appreciated.

Cheers


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## tech/a (4 February 2010)

Seriously go see a Psychologist.

OR

Take T/H's lead and live with it!


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## subaru69 (4 February 2010)

Start by living in a box


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## awg (4 February 2010)

satanoperca said:


> How does one remove bias from decision making?
> 
> It seems to infiltrate ever decision from trading to general life?
> 
> ...




bias and emotion

there are several authors who make claim to assist in this endeavour, and while I havent actually read them, perhaps you may wish to.

I believe there are previous ASF threads that elaborate, but the authors would include Steenbarger, Van Tharp and Elder.

Others may be able to offer more detailed comment, I should read them myself.

If that doesnt work, you may also wish to consider a lobotomy, although I dont know whether it may have adverse consequences on other aspects of your trading


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## nunthewiser (4 February 2010)

I had to remove my last post as it was immature and was not in any way going to help the plight of this obviously concerned new trader .

I do apologise for any harm it may have caused to him if he/she read it and it will not happen again.

When i can reply in a more serious and productive nature i will give my thoughts.


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## Wysiwyg (4 February 2010)

satanoperca said:


> How does one remove bias from decision making?
> 
> It seems to infiltrate ever decision from trading to general life?
> 
> Comments and suggested methods to rid my mind of this insidious disorder would be much appreciated.



Take a neutral position. Alternatively, acknowledge your bias is determined by the circumstances you are faced with and see if you can switch them.

For example; if button A is pressed and you respond by going long in a securities position, try going short or take no position at all. Be warned though, your biases are likely ingrained so conscious awareness when the bias is triggered will help with responding in a neutral or opposite bias.


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## Timmy (4 February 2010)

If you are aware that you have a problem with it, that has got to be a good start?

Actively seek out reasons for why the decision you want to make is wrong - if someone was going to make the exact opposite decision, what would their reasons be?

How big a problem is the bias?  If you are an EOD trader and your bias is to be long then over the past few months that bias would not have been too much of a problem?  Maybe you are biased for very good reasons (that you might not be consciously aware of?)

Just some thoughts.  Hope they help.  

Sure there will be a self-help book on this somewhere?

Also, if you end up just accepting that you are biased and there isn't much you can do about it, have a read of some of the threads where posters get locked into a position/view and will not listen to reason or logic, but just rationalise, justify, backpedal, become economical with the truth, and feverishly try to save face ... all the while digging a deeper and deeper hole ... then you might decide your bias is not so bad after all :


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## nulla nulla (4 February 2010)

satanoperca said:


> How does one remove bias from decision making?
> 
> It seems to infiltrate ever decision from trading to general life?
> 
> ...




Reaching out for help is the first step to being cured. First we need to go back to the beginning.
I suspect you were bottle fed because you obviously are dominated by the females in your life. Never having bit the tit that fed you means you have never been able to assert your independance and masculinity.
The bed wetting is also another sign of anxiety which is reflected in your choice of moniker for this forum, Satanoperca.
Some silly buggers may think this is an obscure reference to the prince of darkness but a quick google shows this is actualy an exotic species of South American fish. This reflects your desire to hide away from other people to avoid contact and avoid your feelings of insecurity.
Your participation in the ASF chat site however is a second expression of your need to overcome your past. This in itself is an excellent step. Coming in contact with the ratbags that gather there and asserting your opinion is one of the best ways to overcome your deep rooted insecurities and anxieties.
Next we need to help you get past your need to short the same stocks you go long with (indecisive). If we can get you to take a stand and go either long or short it will be a big step.
This will help us address your decission making process. Your bias may be a deep seated anxiety to succeed impairing your objectivety. We make be able to overcome this by advancing your treatment to medication, such as alcohol, amphetimines and other substances.
That should be enough for this week. Please pay the receptionist on your way out and ask her to reschedule a visit for the same time next week.


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## Riddick (4 February 2010)

To be honest, I fail to ssee the issue. The notion of bias as a guiding force in decision making is a moot point. Making a decision is all about being biased either for, or against, a particular option and making a choice accordingly. Making a decision based on emotion, impulse, or improper information and making a bad decision as a result is not bias. Infact, it is irrational not to be biased in some way, shape or form in every decision you make.
If you are looking for investment opportunities and have a moral stance against, for example, chopping down trees, you would look less favourably on companies that promoted this behaviour or derived their income from this type of activity. If you are a speculative investor you are more likely to be biased towards higher risk than say an income investor seeking stable dividends. 
Bias is important. It is how you decide what to do in any given situation. More important, however, is basing your bias upon concrete evidence, verifiable fact and sound and logical reasoning as opposed to the aforementioned unsound principles principally: emotion, impulse or misinformation.
Long live bias and so forth.


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## barney (4 February 2010)

Riddick said:


> To be honest, I fail to ssee the issue. The notion of bias as a guiding force in decision making is a moot point. Making a decision is all about being biased either for, or against, a particular option and making a choice accordingly. Making a decision based on emotion, impulse, or improper information and making a bad decision as a result is not bias. Infact, it is irrational not to be biased in some way, shape or form in every decision you make.
> Long live bias and so forth.




Agree ..... rational bias is a good starting point for decision making .... its only when we let our bias become affected by irrational decisions that it becomes a liability ............and irrational decisions are generally bought about by lack of experience ................. wonder how i know that


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## Wysiwyg (4 February 2010)

nulla nulla said:


> Reaching out for help is the first step to being cured. First we need to go back to the beginning.
> I suspect you were bottle fed because you obviously are dominated by the females in your life. Never having bit the tit that fed you means you have never been able to assert your independance and masculinity.
> The bed wetting is also another sign of anxiety which is reflected in your choice of moniker for this forum, Satanoperca.
> Some silly buggers may think this is an obscure reference to the prince of darkness but a quick google shows this is actualy an exotic species of South American fish. This reflects your desire to hide away from other people to avoid contact and avoid your feelings of insecurity.




If I may butt in here and suggest your patient diagnosis is somewhat imaginative and lacking any form of professionalism. Firstly, you need to complete formal training in your chosen  hobby. This means a completed formal education to the Master Degree level or beyond. 

Secondly, the "connections" you perceive are a direct reflection of  your own deep seated emotional disturbances. You really need to address these issues before venturing any further with your "interest" and it just so happens I have a time slot on Wednesdays at 7.00 p.m. if you are willing to do some inner work.

Additionally the case may be suffering from severe depression and incorrect diagnosis could lead to irreversible damage of which would be of no benefit to anyone, least of all the case. I do appreciate your interest in the matter and as noted above I have the time available to work your issues. You show promise but remember, the most difficult part of personal growth is facing the demons within.


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## SusanW (4 February 2010)

you are in luck. the rest of the world has bias too. 

and survival (and investment) advantage comes down to a competition between biases. 

so don't strive to eliminate bias, just evolve more competitive bias.


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## nulla nulla (4 February 2010)

Wysiwyg said:


> If I may butt in here and suggest your patient diagnosis is somewhat imaginative and lacking any form of professionalism. Firstly, you need to complete formal training in your chosen  hobby. This means a completed formal education to the Master Degree level or beyond.
> 
> Secondly, the "connections" you perceive are a direct reflection of  your own deep seated emotional disturbances. You really need to address these issues before venturing any further with your "interest" and it just so happens I have a time slot on Wednesdays at 7.00 p.m. if you are willing to do some inner work.
> 
> Additionally the case may be suffering from severe depression and incorrect diagnosis could lead to irreversible damage of which would be of no benefit to anyone, least of all the case. I do appreciate your interest in the matter and as noted above I have the time available to work your issues. You show promise but remember, the most difficult part of personal growth is facing the demons within.




Thats a bit rough saying  that I lack professionalism. I will have you know I have a certificate in First Aid and I am more than qualified to assist Mr Satanoperica in his quest to overcome the negative influence of "bias" in his stock choices and in general life as well. And as for my own "deep seated emotional disturbances", I came to grips with these over 30 years ago when I graduated for the "Dale Carnegie" college in public speaking and human relations.  So there.


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## cutz (4 February 2010)

satanoperca said:


> How does one remove bias from decision making?
> 
> It seems to infiltrate ever decision from trading to general life?
> 
> ...




G'Day,

Speaking from experience and as far as trading goes I can offer two suggestions, take up options trading and stop looking at charts.


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## satanoperca (4 February 2010)

Thanks to those that responded in a mature and responsible matter concerning this pressing issue.

Unfortunately my bias has grown towards some thread posters.

Nulla, thank you for your wise words of wisdom, I have consumed a bottle of red wine and smoked some substance obtained from an unnamed man at the local pub. 

It does not seem to be helping, maybe I just need to do more of it to work.

While being indecisive, I only trade a position in one direction at a time, once that position is closed I might swing around and trade that same stock the other way.

We will just have to see how WOW, WES, CBA and MQG fair tomorrow.

Cheers


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## GumbyLearner (4 February 2010)

satanoperca said:


> I have consumed a bottle of red wine and smoked some substance obtained from an unnamed man at the local pub.




I would ditch what you are smoking straight away. Never let that be a drag on your life or cloud your opinions. Drugs are for losers and certainly losing stocks IMHO.

Having said that I'm a bit of a hypocrite because I don't mind a six-pack of beer or a few rum nightcaps at times. Usually this can create a bias to me desiring another. :alcohol:


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## Buckfont (4 February 2010)

Good grief S,operca, we`re not meant to do this (give advice) but I`d suggest to put the bong away, keep the vodka in the freezer, and stick your head in a bucket of cold, may I say icy water, to keep the gremlins of woorry away. 

You`ll sleep better if you understand that as soon as you wake in the morning and make a choice to either get up or lie in, you have bias, and taking it into the sharemarket/trading system is the worst place to get upset about it.

May the sun shine upon your richness


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## weird (4 February 2010)

lol, funny thread, while I don't have any weed, what pub was that by the way ? I decided to do something random today, and just buy a stock, although have decided on the stop and exit, that being WOW.

After doing over 500 mechanical trades, I guess I am allowed the odd punt ... but as long as I have a stop and trailing stop in place, and don't care either way it goes, I guess in the grand scheme ... it just means I'm Aussie ... have a punt now and again, just don't rely on it, and don't bet the homestead.


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## satanoperca (4 February 2010)

Weird I should clarify, I'm short on all those stocks. How long I will hold those positions is dependant upon the current market conditions day by day. This is no trending market, one must make decisions quickly, wisely and without bias. Just the facts.

Yes it is a funny thread. But keep it going. It is very interesting and does not have the normal ego driven replies seen in other threads.

GumpyLearner, do you have bias towards dope due to something you have read or an event that you have experienced. Just curious.

Will report in tomorrow about how my day of eliminating bias has gone.

Currently biased towards the XAO being in the red tomorrow as DJ Futs -49, but this can change.

Cheers


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## weird (4 February 2010)

satanoperca said:


> Weird I should clarify, I'm short on all those stocks. How long I will hold those positions is dependant upon the current market conditions day by day. This is no trending market, one must make decisions quickly, wisely and without bias. Just the facts.
> 
> Yes it is a funny thread. But keep it going. It is very interesting and does not have the normal ego driven replies seen in other threads.
> 
> ...




Are you shorting through a CFD ?

Anyhow joke towards the weed, honestly I am allergic to the stuff, not smoked or eaten that **** in 10 years, because I do not relax or enjoy it, I would rather take a valium ... so I can sleep or be very relaxed... never understood weed, suppose to relax but has too many side effects ... perhaps why not legalised. There is too much % of the population that has side affects.


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## GumbyLearner (4 February 2010)

satanoperca said:


> GumpyLearner, do you have bias towards dope due to something you have read or an event that you have experienced. Just curious.
> 
> Cheers




No I have a bias against dope.

This is based on seeing others doing nothing with their lives. Like dropping out of University, not wanting to go to work, cleaning up the aftermath of rave parties (I consider ecstatic substances dope too!!) etc...

Also interesting to consider the origin of the word

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=dope

1807, Amer.Eng., "sauce, gravy," from Du. doop "thick dipping sauce." Extension to "drug" is 1889, from practice of smoking semi-liquid opium preparation. Meaning "foolish, stupid person" is older (1851) and may have a sense of "thick-headed." Sense of "inside information" (1901) may come from knowing before the race which horse had been drugged to influence performance. Related: Doped; doping. Dope-fiend is attested from 1896.

So if you smoke weed, that's what you are or will become. A Dope!


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## Julia (4 February 2010)

Riddick said:


> Bias is important. It is how you decide what to do in any given situation. More important, however, is basing your bias upon concrete evidence, verifiable fact and sound and logical reasoning as opposed to the aforementioned unsound principles principally: emotion, impulse or misinformation.
> Long live bias and so forth.



Yep, I agree with Riddick, though wonder if I'm somehow missing your point, Satan?

"Bias" seems like a term with negative connotations, but objectively, without bias of some sort aren't you going to be some sort of willo the wisp with no opinion or defined view?

I'd have said that bias means an uninformed view that's not based on objective reasoning.  Surely that's not what you're feeling you suffer from?

It's an interesting topic.  Could you be a bit more specific about where you see the problem to be and how it affects you?

And to those contributing to this thread who are clearly talented therapists, maybe remember to adjust your fee to allow for commission paid to Joe for advertising on his website.


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## satanoperca (4 February 2010)

DMA CFD's Weird. Good brokerage. Most stocks available for shorting except penny stocks.

When you are doing 10 trades a day, brokerage is very important.

As for smoking, I neither for or against but do believe that a lot of people have unsubstantiated bias towards. There is that word again.

The real issue in society is prescription drugs, alcohol and gutless officials willing to take the necessary actions to provide a happy and rewarding world to live in free of bias.

Cheers


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## GumbyLearner (4 February 2010)

satanoperca said:


> DMA CFD's Weird. Good brokerage. Most stocks available for shorting except penny stocks.
> 
> When you are doing 10 trades a day, brokerage is very important.
> 
> ...




Read mr. satanoperca. Just read! Drop the substances and read!! That's the only objective advice I can give you.


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## nunthewiser (5 February 2010)

.......... ummmmmm nearly had it......

Nope. Sorry i still cant respond in a mature and serious manner to the matter at hand.

I did try.

have a good day :kiffer:


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## GumbyLearner (5 February 2010)

nunthewiser said:


> .......... ummmmmm nearly had it......
> 
> Nope. Sorry i still cant respond in a mature and serious manner to the matter at hand.
> 
> ...




Love your signature/web address Nun  LMAO


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## nulla nulla (5 February 2010)

satanoperca said:


> Thanks to those that responded in a mature and responsible matter concerning this pressing issue.
> 
> We will just have to see how WOW, WES, CBA and MQG fair tomorrow.
> 
> Cheers




Your'e welcome Satan, and of course alcohol should be consumed in a sensible and responsible manner and the amphetimines and other substance should be avoided.



satanoperca said:


> Weird I should clarify, I'm short on all those stocks. How long I will hold those positions is dependant upon the current market conditions day by day. This is no trending market, one must make decisions quickly, wisely and without bias. Just the facts.
> 
> Currently biased towards the XAO being in the red tomorrow as DJ Futs -49, but this can change.
> 
> Cheers




Given that the djia has fallen 247 points and the Nasdaq is down 60 (as at 7:30am with half an hour to go) your bias seems to be in the correct direction. I will be surprised if your shorts are not further in the money by the end of todays trade.


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## WaveSurfer (22 March 2010)

Satan, what bias are you referring to buddy?

I see two main types of bias, one good and one bad. Exact terminology of the two I have no idea, but here's two examples.

*The Patriotic American*
I like yanks, don't get me wrong. But as I have witnessed on a number of other forums, the patriotic bias can be extremely detrimental.

Billy is the hardcore Texan. He loves his country and would bend over backwards for it. He also trades FX. His patriotism has placed a set of blinkers on his noggin and he can't do anything but long the dollar. Even when it's in a raging bear trend. He just loves his country sooo damn much that he thinks it will bounce back at any moment, for they, the United States of America are the most powerful country in the world. So he longs and longs and longs. Soon enough, his capital is gone and has to go back to his slave job.

*The Prudent Investor*
Wally researches a stock until his fingers are clicked to the bone and his head hurts from the weeks of constant reading. He's performed some serious extensive technical and fundamental analysis on the stock and all conclusions are pointing to a potential downward move. Johnny has determined his potential R:R and knows exactly where to exit if he was wrong. He then realises that the herd and the experts on Bloomberg are quite bullish. This has him questioning his hard work and resultant "bias".



The question is Satan, what sort of bias do you have? First or second? If it's the first, then you do need to do something about it (exactly what I have no idea, sorry). If it's the second, forget about it. As long as you know where to get out if you're wrong, you're laughen mate.


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