# New computer - opinions



## Steve C (3 September 2012)

Hi everyone,

I am currently customizing a budget system that will get me the best gear I can for around the $1000-1200 dollar mark. Main uses of the system will be for work/study, some gaming and of course systems testing through amibroker/ninja trader (eventually!)

Can I please get your opinions on the below hardware I have selected - please let me know if there is anything you would consider changing or paying that little extra for.




Thanks,

Steve


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## Joules MM1 (3 September 2012)

Steve C said:


> systems testing through amibroker/ninja trader (eventually!)




get a bigger budget, dual graphics/dual screens.......most def.....you'll see


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## Steve C (3 September 2012)

Joules MM1 said:


> get a bigger budget, dual graphics/dual screens.......most def.....you'll see




Thanks Joules - at the moment I am a beginner so I think that may be overkill at this point in time.

One thing I realised is to pay a bit more and get a USB3.0 supported case.


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## pixel (3 September 2012)

Steve C said:


> Thanks Joules - at the moment I am a beginner so I think that may be overkill at this point in time.
> 
> One thing I realised is to pay a bit more and get a USB3.0 supported case.




I'd consider a Coolmaster tower; and definitely a dual head video card; you don't HAVE to plug in the second monitor right away, but it's good to know you can when you want to. The i5 processor is definitely sufficient. 
Make sure you budget for MS Office - afaik, MS make you pay extra once the trial period is over.

btw I had PLE (Bentley) build me a similar box 2 years ago; they're a great bunch of people.


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## Steve C (3 September 2012)

pixel said:


> I'd consider a Coolmaster tower; and definitely a dual head video card; you don't HAVE to plug in the second monitor right away, but it's good to know you can when you want to. The i5 processor is definitely sufficient.
> Make sure you budget for MS Office - afaik, MS make you pay extra once the trial period is over.
> 
> btw I had PLE (Bentley) build me a similar box 2 years ago; they're a great bunch of people.




Thanks Pixel, trying to decide between these two cases (both USB3.0 supported)
Coolermaster Silencio 550
http://plecomputers.com.au/ViewItem.aspx?InventoryItemID=607717&CategoryID=442

Thermaltake V4
http://plecomputers.com.au/ViewItem.aspx?InventoryItemID=609449&CategoryID=442

I am thinking I will go the Thermaltake as the Coolermaster ironically has had some bad reviews in regards to running hot.

I will also look into the dual head video card - any budget recommendations?


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## MrBurns (3 September 2012)

Just bought this - with Telstra Extreme connection I can download at 6.5 MB per second.

And because of the SSD it's silent..........

INTEL I7-3770 CORE I7 PROCESSOR, 3.4GHZ
8GB DDR3 MEMORY ( 2 X 4GB MODULE )
GIGABYTE / Z77 / 4 X DDR3 / 2 X PCI-E3.0 X 16 MAINBOARD
GEFORCE GTX550 TI 1GB 192BIT GDDR5
INTEL 120GB SSD 520 SERIES SSD
MS WINDOWS 7 HOME PREMIUM 64 BIT
22X DVD R/W DRIVE WITH SOFTWARE
MIDTOWER ATX CASE WITH 420W PSU

Total inc GST $1,265.00


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## drsmith (3 September 2012)

MrBurns said:


> Just bought this - with Telstra Extreme connection I can download at 6.5 MB per second.
> 
> And because of the SSD it's silent..........



Sounds like it won't be long and you'll need to add one of these,

http://www.netplus.com.au/product/H..._WD20EARX_SATA_6Gbs_64Mb_Cache_SATA3_SATA_III

If in Perth, it's worthwhile price comparing system/components with Austin and Netplus. 

As for graphics cards, even cheapies these days have dual digital outputs.


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## MrBurns (3 September 2012)

drsmith said:


> Sounds like it won't be long and you'll need to add one of these,
> 
> http://www.netplus.com.au/product/H..._WD20EARX_SATA_6Gbs_64Mb_Cache_SATA3_SATA_III
> 
> ...




I dont use a lot of space but I could get a HD installed as well or just use an external drive for storage which I do now.


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## Logique (3 September 2012)

Hi Steve C.
Budget? That looks like a big expensive power guzzling system to me. Are you sure you need that much capacity? Although you mention some gaming.  Do you have fast internet to make it all worthwhile - ADSL2+ or better.


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## drsmith (3 September 2012)

Logique said:


> That looks like a big expensive power guzzling system to me.



I havn't purchased desktop PC parts for a while, but I do wonder whether it would be better today to use a solid state drive for the OS (as Burnsie has done) and a large capacity 5400rpm green drive for storage.

I've had two of the green drives installed for a few years without any problems.


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## Steve C (3 September 2012)

Logique said:


> Hi Steve C.
> Budget? That looks like a big expensive power guzzling system to me. Are you sure you need that much capacity? Although you mention some gaming.  Do you have fast internet to make it all worthwhile - ADSL2+ or better.




Hi Logique, as stated the budget is about $1k but I have spent a touch more getting some decent hardware so that when the time comes that I have the sufficient knowledge and skills to start system trading, the hardware will be capable of doing so (backtesting etc). I probably won't utilize most of the system potential but at least if I get a well specced system now I should be able to get a few more years out of it - and for around $1k it seems reasonable. 

Can anyone confirm if the graphics card selected can hook up two monitors? 

Thanks for all the replies. 

Steve


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## Tannin (3 September 2012)

Better again is to use a hybrid drive - the seagate Momentus XT range is the go-to product here. Performs like an SSD, capacity like a real hard drive, zero management overhead. That's zero - it just works and you don't even know it's there.

To the OP: unless you are seriously gaming (in which case you need to detail which games you play and buy accordingly) the money you spend on a bigger graphics card is 100% wasted. For non-games usage (outside of a handful of specialised apps) on-board graphics or at most a very cheap graphics card is every bit as good as an expensive white elephant card.


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## Steve C (3 September 2012)

Tannin said:


> Better again is to use a hybrid drive - the seagate Momentus XT range is the go-to product here. Performs like an SSD, capacity like a real hard drive, zero management overhead. That's zero - it just works and you don't even know it's there.
> 
> To the OP: unless you are seriously gaming (in which case you need to detail which games you play and buy accordingly) the money you spend on a bigger graphics card is 100% wasted. For non-games usage (outside of a handful of specialised apps) on-board graphics or at most a very cheap graphics card is every bit as good as an expensive white elephant card.




Tannin, thanks for your input, I may have gone over the top selecting this card, it was only $60 more than the standard card so I thought why not. I am not a big computer gamer, but I do enjoy the odd game of Call of Duty etc...Not sure what card I would require to play the lastest versions of games such as that?

Thanks,

Steve


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## drsmith (3 September 2012)

Steve C said:


> Can anyone confirm if the graphics card selected can hook up two monitors?



If it's the GT 640 as indicated on Nvidia's website, I would be very suprised if it couldn't.

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gt640/product-images


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## Steve C (3 September 2012)

drsmith said:


> If it's the GT 640 as indicated on Nvidia's website, I would be very suprised if it couldn't.
> 
> http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gt640/product-images




Thanks Dr Smith - greatly appreciated.


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## Tannin (3 September 2012)

Steve, that's around a $150 card (depending on brand and so on). Not by any means required but - agreeing with Dr Smith here - it will serve you very well for what you are after and at that price won't break the bank. (Some people spend $800 on a graphics card to run Firefox and a spreadsheet. No joke.)


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## Logique (4 September 2012)

Liking the idea of SSDs raised in here. Power efficient, but still expensive per MB. 

I never look further than 3 yrs ahead on computer specs. Still think Steve C. you're buying more computer than you need, but hey it's your dollar.


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## chrislp (4 September 2012)

Steve C said:


> Tannin, thanks for your input, I may have gone over the top selecting this card, it was only $60 more than the standard card so I thought why not. I am not a big computer gamer, but I do enjoy the odd game of Call of Duty etc...Not sure what card I would require to play the lastest versions of games such as that?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Steve




You are much better off getting the GTX 550Ti for gaming especially with the resolution that monitor in your list runs at. The GT 640 is a budget card & won't perform well with newer games.


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## drsmith (4 September 2012)

One thing to consider with a higher end GPU in a stock system is its power consumption. The PSU may also have to be reconsidered as well.


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## pixel (4 September 2012)

Steve C said:


> Can anyone confirm if the graphics card selected can hook up two monitors?



Hi Steve,

I've finally got around to checking the video card in my 2 year-old 64 bit machine.
It's an ATI Radeon HD 4550 that connects two monitors with any combination of three connectors:
HDMI
DVI
VGA

In over 2 years, it hasn't missed a beat, whether it's multi-charts, training videos, or the HD movies at ABC iView (when the wife wants to watch Poirot while the Footy is on Seven ;-)) OK, I'm not a gamer.

http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/review/pc_components/amd/ati_radeon_hd_4550/264357

suggests it's of limited use for gaming, and lists a few alternatives. Check them out yourself.


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## chrislp (4 September 2012)

drsmith said:


> One thing to consider with a higher end GPU in a stock system is its power consumption. The PSU may also have to be reconsidered as well.




Yes good point. 

Using a PSU calculator found here that system including the video card I mentioned uses up to 425W.

On the link provided where you want to build this system the Antec & Corsair 550W or 650W are the ones I'd personally get but the XFX 450W is a recommended PSU in that calculator. You're better off with a bit of headroom though if you upgrade parts later on.

Don't know how much that will break the bank as the case in your initial list had a PSU with it.


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## Julia (5 August 2014)

I'm a total technophobe.  Hate the thought of having to adapt to different system, but running XP which I had put on a new computer about three years ago, I realise its time is limited.

Glancing through some of what's for sale, it all seems to have Windows 8.1.   Can this come in a format not too far from XP in, say, a laptop?   What are the advantages and disadvantages of it?   I seem to have heard quite a few negatives but maybe that related to Windows 7?

Android?   

Anything I buy must have keyboard and I'd prefer that it can be connected to elec. rather than being dependent on battery.

Any advice or information would be much appreciated.

Is there any device which acts as phone with voice recognition sending of texts and has the other above features as well?


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## SirRumpole (5 August 2014)

Julia said:


> I'm a total technophobe.  Hate the thought of having to adapt to different system, but running XP which I had put on a new computer about three years ago, I realise its time is limited.
> 
> Glancing through some of what's for sale, it all seems to have Windows 8.1.   Can this come in a format not too far from XP in, say, a laptop?   What are the advantages and disadvantages of it?   I seem to have heard quite a few negatives but maybe that related to Windows 7?
> 
> ...




Do you want to travel around with it, or just use it at home ?

Is it going to be used only for Internet, or other applications ?

Is it part of a home or small office network ?

Price range ?

Disk space requirements ? will you be downloading movies/tv, keeping large documents ?

I'm not sure I can answer your questions, but it would be good to have an idea of your requirements. I use Windows 8 on a laptop and it seems ok. For the average user like me I don't think the operating system makes much difference. I also use XP on a desktop and everything seems to work. The only reason I would upgrade from XP is because I have to as it is no longer supported.


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## sydboy007 (5 August 2014)

Julia said:


> I'm a total technophobe.  Hate the thought of having to adapt to different system, but running XP which I had put on a new computer about three years ago, I realise its time is limited.
> 
> Glancing through some of what's for sale, it all seems to have Windows 8.1.   Can this come in a format not too far from XP in, say, a laptop?   What are the advantages and disadvantages of it?   I seem to have heard quite a few negatives but maybe that related to Windows 7?
> 
> ...




With a few config changes I was able to get Windows 8.1 back close enough to windows 7 that I was happy with it.

Having used it for a couple of months on my new laptop I'm reasonably happy with it.  I just view the metro start page as like a big version of the start bar.  Once you have that attitude then it becomes less threatening.  It's also possible to boot into the standard desktop as well.

Some laptops come with win 7 and 8.1 so you have the option to stay with the more familiar start menu system on win 7.

I'd recommend buying a 15.6" laptop.  There's always sales on this size and you can now get something with enough grunt to last many years for <$500.  The portability also makes it easier to move around.

At home I use my laptop connected to a monitor and external mouse.  Works quite well.  If space is a premium you can use an external keyboard and hide the laptop away.

For longevity I'd recommend:


Intel core I3 3-XXX previous or 4-XXX current model.  Plenty powerful to do the basics.
4GB of RAM
500GB HDD - not so important since USB ports make it easy to connect an external drive
USB 3.0 - at least 1 port.  The speed increase for doing backups makes it an essential.

The current intel celeron processors are also pretty decent these days, and should last you a few years.  Dell has laptops with the above config for $398, or you can get an all in one PC that's built into the monitor for $498 which means you don't have to use up space on the actual PC.

Feel free to PM if you see something you like and want a second opinion.


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## Julia (5 August 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> Do you want to travel around with it, or just use it at home ?



Mostly use it at home.  I like using a desk with quick access to files etc.



> Is it going to be used only for Internet, or other applications ?



Internet, email, no interest in games or downloading movies, books etc.  Do want to continue using programs like Winsnap (screenshot), Camera and Scanner wizard etc.



> Is it part of a home or small office network ?



Home office.



> Price range ?



Initially I was thinking of something relatively cheap which will just let me get the idea of whether I want to switch now, or whether to hope to hold on to XP until something better than the current stuff comes out.



> Disk space requirements ? will you be downloading movies/tv, keeping large documents ?



As above, no movies etc, but plenty of space to keep, eg ten years of tax returns and other documents.


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## noco (5 August 2014)

Julia said:


> I'm a total technophobe.  Hate the thought of having to adapt to different system, but running XP which I had put on a new computer about three years ago, I realise its time is limited.
> 
> Glancing through some of what's for sale, it all seems to have Windows 8.1.   Can this come in a format not too far from XP in, say, a laptop?   What are the advantages and disadvantages of it?   I seem to have heard quite a few negatives but maybe that related to Windows 7?
> 
> ...




Julia, I switched from Windows XP to Windows 7 last April and found it so much faster than XP.

I spoke to a specialist here and he told me Windows 8.1 will be in most of the new computers as from August 2014.......He advised me to avoid Windows 8.1 as there are certain complications with it....He did not elaborate.


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## Muschu (5 August 2014)

Julia said:


> Mostly use it at home.  I like using a desk with quick access to files etc.
> 
> 
> Internet, email, no interest in games or downloading movies, books etc.  Do want to continue using programs like Winsnap (screenshot), Camera and Scanner wizard etc.
> ...




Hi Julia

I have a reasonably new Lenovo ThinkCentre using Windows 7.  Full size screen but the hard drive is built in behind the screen.  Others might see a downside but my computer advisor uses the same setup. 

It's "tidy", works fine and looks fine. Like you I don't get into movies or games but have a lot of stored information which I also put onto a backup "thing" every fortnight or so.

Might be worth a look.  Not expensive but can't recall precise figure at the moment.  

Current models seem to come with Windows 8 however.

check this out:

http://shopap.lenovo.com/au/en/desktops/thinkcentre/all-in-ones/e73z/

Rick


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## So_Cynical (5 August 2014)

Julia

Your first decision has to be Laptop or Desktop? lots of people have laptops as their main computer now, desktop sales have been in decline for quite some time...a mid range laptop with windows 7 or 8.1 can be had (cheap online) for around $600, low end $500 or a little less, desktops take off $100 (no monitor) 

If its just for home a good (somewhat future proof) upper mid range desktop can be had for around $800, with a solid state drive for windows and a SATA drive for everything else, 8 gig ram and I3 (4th gen chip) you will get fast boot times and fast program start and execution.

All cheap (under $800) laptops will not have a solid state drive so you lose that advantage, the other disadvantage with laptops is the 15.9 screen size, i love my 24" monitor.

http://computers.mwave.com.au/searc...ptops_laptopsnotebooks type1:notebookslaptops'

http://www.mwave.com.au/desktop-computers/mwave-computers?sortid=1&display=list


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## Julia (5 August 2014)

Thanks to everyone who has responded.   
Re suggestion of device with W. 7, I've not seen anything with that version advertised.  It's all 8.1, about which I've heard so many adverse comments.  
Can anyone enlighten me re what the problems are with 8?

How long is it likely to be before microsoft comes out with a replacement for 8, bearing in mind that my present computer with XP is running perfectly at present, despite m/s no longer supporting it.  I've been advised that, as long as good virus, malware etc protection is there, then there's no reason why it shouldn't last for some time yet.
Syd, you, I think, work in the field.  Does that make sense?


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## pixel (6 August 2014)

Julia said:


> Thanks to everyone who has responded.
> Re suggestion of device with W. 7, I've not seen anything with that version advertised.  It's all 8.1, about which I've heard so many adverse comments.
> Can anyone enlighten me re what the problems are with 8?
> 
> ...




A month ago, my Windows 7 machine "played up" and had to "go to the doctor", which left me stranded with an 8-yo XP box that I had kept as a backup for just such an emergency. Of course, XP with 2GB of RAM and an almost full 80GB disk is struggling. So I decided to "roll up": buy a new box as main production machine, refurbish the Windows 7 as main backup, and put the XP machine out to pasture.

The new PC is a naked box with 1TB disk, 8GB memory, quad video (sorry: a video card that can drive up to 4 monitors), and enough USB ports for all those extra bits and drives that I don't want to do without.
The Intel quad-core i5-4460 is about on a par with the second-highest Lenovo on Rick's website.

This machine came with Windows 8,1 pre-installed, plus instructions how to customise it to look and feel like Windows 7, which I tweaked even pretty close to the comfy old XP, for that matter.

Functionally, I found no reason to join the anti-8 brigade. After I finished the setup - creating plenty of intermediate restore points to be sure - there is hardly a difference between 7 and 8.1 during normal operations. You have to get used to right-clicking on the new "Start" button in order to find the Shut-Down option, and you need to tweak it a little to get rid of the predefined App panel with its annoying facebook and twitter and whatever else buttons. That's about all.

Most annoying is however the new Microsoft Cloud-cum-OneDrive strategy. Initially, I signed up to that new backup service because it appeared to be the only way to get LiveMail ported across. Annoyingly though, from that moment on, I could no longer use my local workgroup that links all my in-house devices via wifi. The original Administrator had been changed to the MS-controlled Outlook account, and I couldn't even add local users, but would have "upgraded" the other PCs in the household to Outlook accounts as well. Read the fine print in those "contracts" - it's scary what kind of rights and control over your data you assign to Microsoft!

So, I went one restore point back, wiped all links to OneDrive and clouds, and rejoined my in-house LAN.
Now I only need to find a way to install a working Mail client on Win 8.1; for the time being, all email is landing on the Win 7 machine - and that has now a local backup facility to a Western Digital 2TB "Elements" drive.
For all essential production data, the Win 7 PC acts as a data server - continuous backup included. With a fast internal wifi, transmission rates are more than sufficient.

*To get back to your initial question, Julia:*
If you want to run those basic functions, plus maybe MS Office (Word, Excel, Powerpoint...) and prefer a full-sized keyboard, mouse, and big monitor - or two, three, four  then don't be afraid of Windows 8.1; that can be set up to work just like XP you know and love. Just be aware that Microsoft would like to "help you" with data backup, which not only drives your Internet traffic through the quota roof, but also gives MS the power to set up a "profile" of your likes, dislikes, and - in your case of course non-existing - transgressions and inadvertent copyright infringements...


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## sydboy007 (6 August 2014)

pixel said:


> Now I only need to find a way to install a working Mail client on Win 8.1




Try thunderbird.  It's free from the group that works on the firefox browser.

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/


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## Julia (6 August 2014)

pixel said:


> *To get back to your initial question, Julia:*
> If you want to run those basic functions, plus maybe MS Office (Word, Excel, Powerpoint...) and prefer a full-sized keyboard, mouse, and big monitor - or two, three, four  then don't be afraid of Windows 8.1; that can be set up to work just like XP you know and love. Just be aware that Microsoft would like to "help you" with data backup, which not only drives your Internet traffic through the quota roof, but also gives MS the power to set up a "profile" of your likes, dislikes, and - in your case of course non-existing - transgressions and inadvertent copyright infringements...



Thanks for that, pixel.  It's reassuring.
I guess no one can answer the question of - given my XP is running without any problems at present - when it might die?   Would there be some warning symptoms before it just stopped working?
Apologies for my woeful ignorance about this stuff.


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## SirRumpole (6 August 2014)

Julia said:


> Thanks for that, pixel.  It's reassuring.
> I guess no one can answer the question of - given my XP is running without any problems at present - when it might die?   Would there be some warning symptoms before it just stopped working?
> Apologies for my woeful ignorance about this stuff.




I think your hardware will die of old age before XP does. (Computer hardware I mean).

No support is being offered for XP, but if you don't load software that's only designed for later versions and don't try to connect devices that may not be compatible I think you'll be OK. Check compatibility with XP before you buy software or devices, and make sure your virus protection is up to date. 

I've rarely had to contact Microsoft support about XP, and there is plenty on the Internet to google if you have issues.

Basically, I don't think there is any need to panic.


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## Julia (6 August 2014)

You're echoing what the computer tech I use when I have any problem said, Rumpole.   What I don't want to do is go and buy something with W8 on it, just in case XP croaks, not really use the new device, and then find MS brings out something vastly superior to W8.


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## Craton (6 August 2014)

FWIW: I'm a bit of a techie in my day gig and service the consumer and the corporate alike.

Intel or AMD? Personal choice but don't dismiss AMD just because Intel is the current king of the block. So a good rule of thumb when building a system is to aim for future proofing as much as one's budget will allow.

Win8.1 is 3 x more secure than Win7 and 10 x more secure than WinXP. Win8 didn't float my boat but Win8.1 is better and have upgraded all my systems to this platform. I do still run Win7 on the test bench and play with Mac, Mint Linux and Ubuntu from time to time.

It is worth the smallish learning curve for going with Win8.1, one doesn't have to use the Modern UI as you can set the system to boot to the Desktop instead of the tiled Modern UI for those without touch screen systems.

OpenOffice or Apache OpenOffice as its now called is a great free alternative to M$ Office. It will open M$ docs/x, excel and ppt and save in these and pdf.

Thunderbird for email is cool. 

H/ware and rule of thumb. Lower power consumption is being addressed by h/ware makers and something to consider when building. Again, a lot comes down to budget but if the system is mainly for office/home office with little media crunching to be done, lower spec is fine. Heavy media like vid editing and gaming or BitCoin mining go higher specs.

The price of SSD now very affordable, use SSD for operating system (o/s) and HDD for storage. I'm not a fan of hybrids at present.

4GB is ok, 8GB RAM should be the norm but again, go higher for media intensive work.

Graphics cards, allow approx. a 1/3 of the cost of the build. Remember, it's your eyes and some of us spend way too much time looking at screens so don't skimp on graphics card and screen costs.

K/board and mouse. Wireless is ok but for gaming, mechanical keys are superior.

Of course there are other considerations like Bluetooth, Wireless, 3G, BluRay, USB 3 and the like to think about. All adding to the fun of building/scoping out a new system without getting into the full on specs of i3/i5/i7, RAM, Nvidia, Radeon, AMD or maker and type of board etc, etc, etc....

Then there's the connectivity of devices. PC to phone, tablet and the like which can be a real bug bear. Smart phones and tablets are great but useless if I can't print out a work order!


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## SirRumpole (6 August 2014)

OK techies, what is a good quality brand of laptop in the $500-$1000 range ? 

I've lost touch with the big makers. 

Hewlett Packard had a good name, Dell ? what else ?


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## Craton (6 August 2014)

Depends on screen size, weight, battery life, yada yada...

ASUS, MSI, Toshiba, ACER, Sony, Dell, HP. 

Links: note some are refurbed/reconditioned and come with warranty.

http://www.oo.com.au/Laptops-Notebooks_C1397.cfm

http://www.topbuy.com.au/computers-office/computers-system/notebook-laptops.html

http://www.graysonline.com/computers-and-electronics/computers-and-it-equipment/laptops


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## skc (6 August 2014)

Craton said:


> Of course there are other considerations like Bluetooth, Wireless, 3G, BluRay, USB 3 and the like to think about. All adding to the fun of building/scoping out a new system without getting into the full on specs of i3/i5/i7, RAM, Nvidia, Radeon, AMD or maker and type of board etc, etc, etc....




Say... who in your opinion is the most reliable MoBo maker (for a desktop running Intel CPU)?


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## CanOz (6 August 2014)

skc said:


> Say... who in your opinion is the most reliable MoBo maker (for a desktop running Intel CPU)?




IMO = ASUS


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## CanOz (6 August 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> OK techies, what is a good quality brand of laptop in the $500-$1000 range ?
> 
> I've lost touch with the big makers.
> 
> Hewlett Packard had a good name, Dell ? what else ?




SirR, i've used Dell, Lenovo, and currenently an HP Elitebook. 

Dell's were good, Lenovo's were better, but i'm happy with the HP now, but its totally solid state. I'd buy another Lenovo or HP but not a Dell again...


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## Craton (6 August 2014)

skc said:


> Say... who in your opinion is the most reliable MoBo maker (for a desktop running Intel CPU)?



For me it's Gigabyte especially with its Dual BIOS but yeah, ASUS and even MSI are right up there. Foxconn is another.

Locally Dell and HP from my perspective have a far superior retail customer support service. Acer, Sony and Toshiba require the unit to be returned to a city (back to base). Only worked on Lenovo (IBM) at the corporate level so that's onsite. I do like the ThinkPad that my partner uses, but I like this little Dell Vostro I'm typing this on too, I also like my little ASUS ultra portable and I like my Toshy that is our onsite lappy, I like my iPhone 5, I like my Gigabyte builds especially my home PC with its SSD, I like my MSI builds and I'd really like a tablet too...oh, and I'd like a Surface Pro 3. Oh dear, I think I need :1zhelp:


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## pixel (7 August 2014)

Craton said:


> FWIW: I'm a bit of a techie in my day gig and service the consumer and the corporate alike.
> 
> It is worth the smallish learning curve for going with Win8.1, one doesn't have to use the Modern UI as you can set the system to boot to the Desktop instead of the tiled Modern UI for those without touch screen systems.
> 
> ...




Thanks heaps, Craton 
You saved me a lot of pain/ searching/ trial and error.
As mentioned elsewhere, I've been totally put off by M$'s grab for control; therefore, I refused to port Live Mail across to the new Win8.1 machine and planned to research alternatives.
As I've been using Mozilla's Firefox for years, I am delighted to find Thunderbird. Set it up for the first of my POP accounts and received and replied to the first message within ten minutes. Brilliantly easy!

Thanks again!

Ditto for your other comments; I have made the same experience with Win 8.1;
The only reason why OpenOffice isn't for me: I have a large number of Excel macros running most of my business applications. Unfortunately, OO won't run those, and I dread rewriting many man-months of Macro-4 code that's still working perfectly in MS Office 2010.


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## FxTrader (7 August 2014)

Craton said:


> Intel or AMD? Personal choice but don't dismiss AMD just because Intel is the current king of the block. So a good rule of thumb when building a system is to aim for future proofing as much as one's budget will allow.



AMD architecture is indeed adequate and usually cheaper as well but the residual value is poor relative to Intel based product.  If you like to recycle your hardware and upgrade every few years, AMD based systems are a poor choice.



> Win8.1 is 3 x more secure than Win7 and 10 x more secure than WinXP. Win8 didn't float my boat but Win8.1 is better and have upgraded all my systems to this platform. I do still run Win7 on the test bench and play with Mac, Mint Linux and Ubuntu from time to time.



Agreed, Win 8.1 is now my preferred destop O/S though I am not a gamer so have no concerns about backward compatibility with a game library. 



> It is worth the smallish learning curve for going with Win8.1, one doesn't have to use the Modern UI as you can set the system to boot to the Desktop instead of the tiled Modern UI for those without touch screen systems.



Win8.1 does not provide the functionality of the old desktop Start menu but there's a great freeware product called Classic Shell http://www.classicshell.net/ that does.  The Win8 Metro interface is primarily useful for touch screen devices.

For those interested in a low cost lightweight notebook, consider also the Macbook Air.  The Air's construction and battery life leaves the competitors far behind and you can, via Bootcamp, dual boot to either OS X or Win7 / 8.  The retained value of the Air is also superior to the competition.  I expect the next generation of Air to also include a higher resolution screen (presumably retina.)


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## Craton (7 August 2014)

pixel said:


> Thanks heaps, Craton
> You saved me a lot of pain/ searching/ trial and error.
> As mentioned elsewhere, I've been totally put off by M$'s grab for control; therefore, I refused to port Live Mail across to the new Win8.1 machine and planned to research alternatives.
> As I've been using Mozilla's Firefox for years, I am delighted to find Thunderbird. Set it up for the first of my POP accounts and received and replied to the first message within ten minutes. Brilliantly easy!
> ...




Thank you pixel for the feedback. Absolutely my pleasure, am glad to be of assistance.

Re: your macros and if you want to pursue OO, this may help from here: https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=56330
Have a Google Fu for: AndrewMacro 5.33. Using a “default application” to open a file.

The link I found and shortened: http://tinyurl.com/ppr3xj7
Opens a .odt file (my Office 2013 opens the file no worries) and is titled: Useful Macro Information For OpenOffice By Andrew Pitonyak. Look for 5.33 in the doco.


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## Logique (7 August 2014)

skc said:


> Say... who in your opinion is the most reliable MoBo maker (for a desktop running Intel CPU)?



I've had a great run with a Gigabyte S Series m/board running with an AMD processor.  Having Dual BIOS is very reassuring.


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## skc (7 August 2014)

Logique said:


> I've had a great run with a Gigabyte S Series m/board running with an AMD processor.  Having Dual BIOS is very reassuring.




My computer just died this morning. It won't get past the BIOS screen and can't register the keyboard. May be it "heard" me typing about new MoBo and got upset.

I will need to give it some TLC tonight...

Or I need that new MOBO sooner than I thought.


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## Craton (7 August 2014)

FxTrader said:


> AMD architecture is indeed adequate and usually cheaper as well but the residual value is poor relative to Intel based product.  If you like to recycle your hardware and upgrade every few years, AMD based systems are a poor choice.
> 
> 
> Agreed, Win 8.1 is now my preferred destop O/S though I am not a gamer so have no concerns about backward compatibility with a game library.
> ...




All good, valid points.
Main issue with Mac is s/ware and connectivity and of course, the learning curve, although not as much of a drama nowadays.

Dual booting can be a real drag on productivity.

Win8.1. The GUI is no longer called Metro (legal dispute with a German( ?) company) hence now called Modern UI.

Yes, the big nuisance _appears to be_ no Start button but if one sets the system to boot to the Desktop and right clicks on the Windows icon, located where the old Start button was, many useful functions are located right there. I know it's a pain to start with but in a short time it becomes second nature.

Right click then use Run, type in say winword or excel, outlook and voila! One can also pin shortcuts to the Taskbar making it even quicker.

To boot to Desktop. Go to the Desktop, right click on the Taskbar, click on the Navigation tab and in the Start screen section, check the box next to *When I sign in or close all apps on a screen, go to the desktop instead of Start.*


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## Craton (7 August 2014)

skc said:


> My computer just died this morning. It won't get past the BIOS screen and can't register the keyboard. May be it "heard" me typing about new MoBo and got upset.
> 
> I will need to give it some TLC tonight...
> 
> Or I need that new MOBO sooner than I thought.




Ouch! Good luck with that.


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## macca (7 August 2014)

Must be the season, I am PC shopping as well, many thanks to all those who have shared their knowledge 

Now I just have to work out what it all means !


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## sydboy007 (17 August 2014)

Anyone looking to buy a new laptop / pc can check out the dick smith ebay store - 20% off all their products listed up to a maximum of $500 discount per transaction.

http://deals.ebay.com.au/#sunday

use code CDISKSMITH20 on checkout.

The below laptop at $400 would make a decent browsing and basic use computer.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Acer-Asp...4135990?pt=AU_comp_laptop&hash=item3cdfe182b6


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## SirRumpole (17 August 2014)

sydboy007 said:


> Anyone looking to buy a new laptop / pc can check out the dick smith ebay store - 20% off all their products listed up to a maximum of $500 discount per transaction.
> 
> http://deals.ebay.com.au/#sunday
> 
> ...




Thanks syd.


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## sydboy007 (5 September 2014)

http://shopap.lenovo.com/au-outlet/itemdetails/23247L5/445

quite a good deal for a portable laptop.  $449 deliver.  Is the previous model as the X240 has just been released.

The HD is on the slow side at just 5400 spin speed, but the upside is lower power when using the battery.


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## SirRumpole (7 December 2014)

I've just been browsing for a basic tablet and found iPad Mini and ASUS Nexus 7.

 I just want for internet browsing, ABC news streaming, iView etc while travelling.

Budget pricing is desired < $300 if possible. Can these use Skype and send receive email ?

Any other options in this market segment ?

What else can these things do ?

Thanks


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## bellenuit (7 December 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> I've just been browsing for a basic tablet and found iPad Mini and ASUS Nexus 7.
> 
> I just want for internet browsing, ABC news streaming, iView etc while travelling.
> 
> ...




Can only speak for the iPad, as I have not tried the ASUS.

Yes, it can Skype and send email. There is probably an app available (for free or for just a couple of dollars) that can do almost anything you want on the device. You can get apps to allow you to process Microsoft Office documents (or Apple Works documents) if you want to continue to work while on the road (personally I normally just "read" such documents while travelling as I think updating and sending back to the desktop still needs a bit of work). 

If you think of all the apps available for a smart phone, then the iPad can probably run the same (or IOS equivalents for Android apps) but has a bigger screen to play with.

Although outside of your budget, I think the iPad Air 2 is probably the best tablet on the market, but the mini is fine too.


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## pixel (7 December 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> I've just been browsing for a basic tablet and found iPad Mini and ASUS Nexus 7.
> 
> I just want for internet browsing, ABC news streaming, iView etc while travelling.
> 
> ...




G'Day Sir,

I take it you have had Windows-compatible devices before? If so, the only mobile gadget I'd choose would NOT be from Apple. If you've had nothing but Apple Mac, ignore my comments.

Devices starting with the letter i will work with applications from Apple. However, even simple things, like special characters that I use in my ISP passwords, can create nightmares.
Maybe there is an iApp for such things; maybe you can even buy Excel. But you better check out the additional costs those extras will add to your budgeted "< $300".

I had an iPad for a short time, but sold it on eBay.
While it is true that iPad has a web browser (Safari) and lets you access email, they don't tell you that your email connection may have limitations, depending where your existing email is being hosted. For example, if I wanted to delete an email from my Server, I had to physically log on to the email server and remove it. On my Windows PC, whether I use Live Mail or Outlook, all accounts can and have been set up so inbox and outbox mirror each other. And if I move an email from an inbox to a Local folder, it's automatically removed from the Server's Inbox as well.


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## bellenuit (7 December 2014)

pixel said:


> G'Day Sir,
> I had an iPad for a short time, but sold it on eBay.
> While it is true that iPad has a web browser (Safari) and lets you access email, they don't tell you that your email connection may have limitations, depending where your existing email is being hosted. For example, if I wanted to delete an email from my Server, I had to physically log on to the email server and remove it. On my Windows PC, whether I use Live Mail or Outlook, all accounts can and have been set up so inbox and outbox mirror each other. And if I move an email from an inbox to a Local folder, it's automatically removed from the Server's Inbox as well.




It certainly hasn't been an issue with me and I have been using iPads since the iPad 2 came out. I use Apple's Mail app to access my Gmail emails and have had no problems to date. Not only does it delete  or archive mails on the server, it also flags them as read, so if I switch to another device (iPhone or Mac) it will be seen there as having already been read. Even if there are limitations with the supplied Mail app (not that I am aware of any), there are alternatives from other app developers, some free or just a few bucks.


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## pixel (7 December 2014)

bellenuit said:


> It certainly hasn't been an issue with me and I have been using iPads since the iPad 2 came out. I use Apple's Mail app to access my Gmail emails and have had no problems to date. Not only does it delete  or archive mails on the server, it also flags them as read, so if I switch to another device (iPhone or Mac) it will be seen there as having already been read. Even if there are limitations with the supplied Mail app (not that I am aware of any), there are alternatives from other app developers, some free or just a few bucks.




It may depend on the email protocol:
I've never used gmail, although I've been forced - reluctantly - to set op one yahoo account. Both of those run with MAPI, I believe, and that protocol could well work OK; it's the PoP accounts on my Domain Server that I had problems with.
I don't synchronise my personal data through "Clouds" of either persuasion. (Are Apple iClouds and the various M$ offerings of One.Net compatible? Not sure...) I keep everything on my own Win7 Server HDD. That created additional problems when I tried to access pictures and data files on iPad, or save snapshots taken with the iPad to my Windows-based desktop server.


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## bellenuit (7 December 2014)

pixel said:


> It may depend on the email protocol:
> I've never used gmail, although I've been forced - reluctantly - to set op one yahoo account. Both of those run with MAPI, I believe, and that protocol could well work OK; it's the PoP accounts on my Domain Server that I had problems with.
> I don't synchronise my personal data through "Clouds" of either persuasion. (Are Apple iClouds and the various M$ offerings of One.Net compatible? Not sure...) I keep everything on my own Win7 Server HDD. That created additional problems when I tried to access pictures and data files on iPad, or save snapshots taken with the iPad to my Windows-based desktop server.




Yes, I have set up Gmail with IMAP (not MAPI). POP is an option, but not as functional as IMAP (at least when I looked 5 or 6 years ago). I let IMAP take care of the synching of emails between devices and do not synch through iCloud.


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## Wysiwyg (7 December 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> What else can these things do ?
> Thanks



I have a 16 GB Ipad 4 that connects with WIFI or 4G. The WIFI is great through my router and can remote control my A/V receiver via an app. and connect to internet. Apps for most things are free or pay, Internet access via Telstra 4G is fast. Takes video and photos. Touch n swipe screen (clear screen film wise choice), Safari search engine is basic. Plenty of other bells and whistles. I use mine to read and listen to books with Kindle and Audible apps., to play chess and checkers, to play my music through the A/V receiver loud , to watch and take video, to take photos, to skype, to watch the markets when away from desktop, e-mail reads sends normal with usual e-mail address,  got 12 GB of data with a year expiry. Streaming is continuous.


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## CanOz (8 December 2014)

I've got a 128gb iPad Air and love it. I have my work schedule, work email, personal email, Google chrome, a ton of apps that I use frequently and a ton of free podcasts for when I'm driving...love it.


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## bellenuit (9 December 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> I've just been browsing for a basic tablet and found iPad Mini and ASUS Nexus 7.
> 
> I just want for internet browsing, ABC news streaming, iView etc while travelling.
> 
> ...





I know you have a limited budget, but if you look long term it might be worth spending a bit more up front. At the risk of starting Android/IOS war, which I don't want to do, you might be interested in this article I came across just now:

*Leading Android fansite recommends Apple Inc iPad Air 2 as best tablet in holiday gift guide*

http://appleinsider.com/articles/14...ad-air-2-as-best-tablet-in-holiday-gift-guide


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## SirRumpole (9 December 2014)

bellenuit said:


> I know you have a limited budget, but if you look long term it might be worth spending a bit more up front. At the risk of starting Android/IOS war, which I don't want to do, you might be interested in this article I came across just now:
> 
> *Leading Android fansite recommends Apple Inc iPad Air 2 as best tablet in holiday gift guide*
> 
> http://appleinsider.com/articles/14...ad-air-2-as-best-tablet-in-holiday-gift-guide




Thanks, but too late.

I just picked up a Nexus 7 at Dick Smith. $299.

I think it will be fine for my use. Downside is it's only 16Gb with no expansion memory.

Upside very good screen resolution (1920x1200) and quad core processor. 5Mp rear camera.

I want to try writing some apps for Android so it had to be an Android O/S.

Thanks to all who replied.


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## Tisme (9 December 2014)

SirRumpole said:


> I've just been browsing for a basic tablet and found iPad Mini and ASUS Nexus 7.
> 
> I just want for internet browsing, ABC news streaming, iView etc while travelling.
> 
> ...




I have had a Samsung Tab 7.7 for few years and it is still serves me very well, especially on my extensive travel.


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## sydboy007 (18 December 2014)

the inner geek in me quite likes this

http://www.gearbest.com/tv-box/pp_128507.html

Main Features: 
● Features 2GB ROM, support TF / micro SD card up to 64GB
● The processor in this chip is Intel Bay Trail-T Quad Core, more stable and reliable
● Support WiFi, Bluetooth, easy to connect with other devices (computer, mobile phone, etc.)
● Operating system: Windows 8 (Can be upgrade to dual OS in later)
● Features two micro USB ports, support webcams and microphones to external hard drives and USB sticks
● Support HDMI connector to connect a home cinema, a Micro SD card slot, giving you the best possible connection
● Compact size of ease for carrying anywhere

It comes with Windows 8.1 with bing (Microsoft has it as a $0 licensing fee option for cheap computers)

If you already have a PC monitor all you'd need is a mirco sd card as the 32GB drive in it will be pretty full from the windows install.  You could either use a bluetooth keyboard or a standard keyboard that plugs into the standard sized usb port and a bt mouse.  A cheap USB hub would allow you to use standard usb devices, and micro usb adaptors are cheap on ebay.

For something that uses a tad over 2W an hour, it has a lot of potential.  A very cheap all round PC.  Perfect for kids or web browsing / MS office.  Would make a perfect HTPC, especially if you already have network attached storage.


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## captain black (18 December 2014)

sydboy007 said:


> the inner geek in me quite likes this




Thanks for posting this sydboy, it's got the inner, outer and everything in between geek excited in me 

There's a couple of short threads on Whirlpool about it but not much detail yet. I'd like to see how people go with XBMC (Kodi) and Netflix running on it first but the specs look very promising for it to be a great little HTPC unit


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## SirRumpole (18 December 2014)

sydboy007 said:


> the inner geek in me quite likes this
> 
> http://www.gearbest.com/tv-box/pp_128507.html
> 
> ...




Yeah, that's an interesting one, well worth considering.

Thanks Syd.


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## sydboy007 (19 December 2014)

hopefully this will become available in Australia soon.

For around 200 USD you get a pretty decent PC experience.  Got to love Intel being forced to sell the CPUs for these device for something like $15-17 each, and MS providing the OS for free.  Competition at its best 

http://www.cnet.com/products/zotac-zbox-pi320-pico-atom-z3735f-1-33-ghz-2-gb-32-gb/specs/


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## Tisme (19 December 2014)

sydboy007 said:


> hopefully this will become available in Australia soon.
> 
> For around 200 USD you get a pretty decent PC experience.  Got to love Intel being forced to sell the CPUs for these device for something like $15-17 each, and MS providing the OS for free.  Competition at its best
> 
> http://www.cnet.com/products/zotac-zbox-pi320-pico-atom-z3735f-1-33-ghz-2-gb-32-gb/specs/




Doesn't seem that long ago I was developing a SCADA system using 186 sandwich comps as the peer to peer distributed masters. How I could have use the zbox back then.


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## So_Cynical (19 December 2014)

sydboy007 said:


> hopefully this will become available in Australia soon.
> 
> For around 200 USD you get a pretty decent PC experience.  Got to love Intel being forced to sell the CPUs for these device for something like $15-17 each, and MS providing the OS for free.  Competition at its best
> 
> http://www.cnet.com/products/zotac-zbox-pi320-pico-atom-z3735f-1-33-ghz-2-gb-32-gb/specs/




A few mini PC's already on the market though not quite as small as the zbox, similar price point.

Gigabyte BRIX http://www.mwave.com.au/product/gigabyte-brix-gbbxbt2807-mini-pc-ab56510

Intel NUC http://www.mwave.com.au/product/mwave-intel-everyday-nuc-mini-pc-ab53922


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## sydboy007 (19 December 2014)

So_Cynical said:


> A few mini PC's already on the market though not quite as small as the zbox, similar price point.
> 
> Gigabyte BRIX http://www.mwave.com.au/product/gigabyte-brix-gbbxbt2807-mini-pc-ab56510
> 
> Intel NUC http://www.mwave.com.au/product/mwave-intel-everyday-nuc-mini-pc-ab53922




Have to add the cost of an OS for the above 2, which starts to price them on the expensive side.

The meegopad and zotac have Win 8.1 preinstalled


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## sydboy007 (2 January 2015)

i think this could be nearly the best cheap PC available for under $100 USD

http://www.gearbest.com/tv-box/pp_134110.html

Main Features: 
● Features 2GB DDR3 ROM, support TF / micro SD card up to 32GB
● The processor in this chip is Intel Baytrail T Quad Core, more stable and reliable
● Support WiFi, Bluetooth, LAN ethernet
● Operating system: Windows 8.1
● Features four USB ports, support webcams and microphones to external hard drives and USB sticks
● Support HDMI connector to connect a home cinema, a Micro SD card slot, giving you the best possible connection
● With 3.5mm audio output, convenient for life


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## So_Cynical (3 January 2015)

Saw this advertised today and thought it was a pretty good deal - HP Notebook $349


15.6" HD LED Display
AMD Dual-Core E1-6010 Accelerated Processor (1.35GHz)
2GB RAM
500GB HDD
AMD Radeon™ R2 Graphics
Windows ® 8.1

http://www.dicksmith.com.au/computers/hp-15-g040au-w8-1-notebook-dsau-xc0257


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## pixel (3 January 2015)

So_Cynical said:


> Saw this advertised today and thought it was a pretty good deal - HP Notebook $349
> 
> 
> 15.6" HD LED Display
> ...



That looks a little better than Syd's $100 job.
However, I'm still not sure that 2GB of RAM is enough to run Windows 8.1. 
I must admit though, I haven't tried Win 7 or 8 with less than 8GB. I guess it all depends on what you want to use it for:* Web Browsing and Social Media may not require much grunt.*


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## sydboy007 (3 January 2015)

pixel said:


> That looks a little better than Syd's $100 job.
> However, I'm still not sure that 2GB of RAM is enough to run Windows 8.1.
> I must admit though, I haven't tried Win 7 or 8 with less than 8GB. I guess it all depends on what you want to use it for: Web Browsing and Social Media may not require much grunt.




From what I've read most people seem to have a good experience with 2GB RAm in win 8.1 as long as they're not doing anything particularly stressful, and to be honest most PCs these days sit barely above idle, especially as more and more web browsing has been pushed onto the GPU.

Browsing / email / videos don't really require much processing grunt, especially when pretty much every  modern CPU has the video codecs built in.  I can see these ~$100 PCs taking a lot fo market share over time as people come to realise they don't need a PC with a cpu that costs more than what they could pay for an entire PC.


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## sydboy007 (15 February 2015)

anyone looking for something relatively light (1.4kg) and easy to fit into a small bag might be interested in this dell 2 in 1 laptop / tablet deal for $539

definitely not a speed demon in terms of the cpu or HDD, but perfectly adequate for what most people do these days.

http://www.dell.com/au/p/inspiron-11-3147-laptop/pd?oc=smy510136au&model_id=inspiron-11-3147-laptop


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## sydboy007 (5 June 2015)

just bought one of these for my dad

http://forum.xda-developers.com/hardware-hacking/android-sticks/ainol-windows-8-1-mini-pc-t3061460

Been playing with it for about a week now and have to say I'm extremely impressed.  A PC that costs $138, does web browsing capably and video playback glitch free.

I do miss the old windows media centre.  It was very easy to set up, especially with TV tuners and setting stuff to record.  The windows 8.1 with bing will be entitled to the free upgrade to windows 10, but as yet not had the little windows icon pop up to advise about the upgrade, so possibly they'll be at the back of the queue??

Have installed mediaportal which seems to work quite nicely for the video playback, but time will tell how it goes with actually recording TV.  Hoping the ATOM CPU has enough grunt for the work.

If you want a cheap PC to do internet browsing and basic productivity work I'd say you'll be pretty happy with it.  I bought mine on ebay for $138 with free shipping.  Took about 2 weeks to arrive.  There;s around 18GB of usable space on the internal drive, and you can add some more space via a $30-40 64GB micro SD card or just plug a thumb drive in.


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