# Business/Motivational Books



## ctp6360 (6 July 2005)

This is just rambling, ignore this post unless you are procrastinating!

I have read over 60 business books. I know this because I wrote out a big list of them. I've also downloaded a whole bunch of "audio books" on the subject which I have listened to over the last 5 years or so.

I have learnt a lot from these books and only regret reading a few of them. Even the bad ones often have one or two good messages in them that help out.

Probably the best thing about reading so many books on the same subject is that you start to notice patterns and common messages that all the books share. Over time you get to know the principles and the different way each author is trying to express them.

The good thing about this is that you're able to pick out the true meaning of the book and ignore the bull****, but the bad thing is you have the tendency to say "oh I know this already" and forget that it is a common theme because it is important.

I am concerned though. One of the first books I read was called "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" by Robert Kiyosaki. And while I realise now that this book lacked any real practical substance the paradigm shift it gave me was definitely a catalyst for my thirst for knowledge in this genre.

But the other day I read something interesting about Robert Kiyosaki. When he published "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" he was virtually bankrupt. Yes he had started businesses in the past but ultimately he became rich because of the very book he was writing about how to get rich.

Fair Enough. So today I was reading through the biography of Bradley J. Sugars the author of two books I have just read, "Instant Cashflow" and some other one, I forget the title. Anyway he started a bunch of businesses and was "rich" by age 22, then he "lost it all" before he got his **** together and started Action International which, guess what, publishes business motivational books, seminars, audio tapes etc.

So Brad Sugars got rich by writing about getting rich too?

Its scary that nearly every author I can think of in this topic has done virtually the same thing - they get rich by telling other people how to get rich, when in actual fact they haven't "practiced what they preach".

This is something I feel strongly about, I try to never take advice from people who haven't "been there, done that". And people love to give unfounded advice, especially when you are doing something that scares them.

So now I think - has all the advice I've been taking from all these books over the last 5 years a whole bunch of bullcrap they made up to get rich? Surely it can't be because I have seen positive results from applying the principles in my own life.

But lets consider the facts:

1) The principles I have taken on board and applied in my own life are solid.
2) These principles appear as a common theme between all the books, audio tapes, etc.
3) The people who write about these principles (not all of them mind you, I'm talking say 70% of the books I've read) have not actually used these principles to get rich, but have used these principles to get rich through writing about these principles (hahaha).

Therefore my conclusion is that the information has been sourced elsewhere. I bet you I could write a book on the same subject based on everything I've read. I'm not sure if I could sell it can get rich, if I was sure I would do it.

I'll continue writing about this tomorrow, I can think of examples of older books I've read where these principles may have come from The Richest Man in Babylon, Benjamin Franklin's Autobiography, Think and Grow Rich, How to Win Friends and Influence People, etc. And I wonder how much of the things I read in contemporary books is just clever re-hashes of principles that have existed for decades or centuries.

Well of course they are, everything is. I guess I have just been too stupid to realise it until now.

I just can't stand unfounded advice - but aha! this advice isn't unfounded persay, it does have a verifiable source! Its just that these guys haven't done it themselves (at least at the time of writing the books anyway) and that is just as bad in my opinion!


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## doctorj (6 July 2005)

Why not get rich by writing a book about people that write books about getting rich to get rich?


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## Jesse Livermore (6 July 2005)

Hi ctp6360,

I too have been a keen reader of motivational psychology/success and leadership/time and life management books and audio programs.

The majority of this reading has been based around Anthony Robbins, however I've read such books as Think and Grow Rich, The 7 Habits of Highly Successful People, How to Win Friends and Influence People, and more...

The majority of my knowledge and skills in this area have been largley influenced by Anthony Robbins, and much of Tony's work has been sourced from others, it's just been structured in a way that makes it his own.

*"Role Modeling"* is something that we all uncounciously do, however Tony teaches you to conciously look for people who are getting the results you want, then copy exactly what they do, so as to accelerate your progress.

I have also noticed a common theme between all books I have read in this area, and that is that they tell you to "know your result, know it's purpose, and take massive action", also "find people who are getting the same results you desire and copy them"

As for your conclusion of being able to write a book based on the synthesised knowledge of all the literature you have read, of course you could, this is how humans work, we look for experience based on what we already know, or we can learn from the accumulated experience of others, the latter will greatly accelerate, and improve your chances of success.

Jesse Livermore


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## Hanrahan (6 July 2005)

And there's Bob Ansett. His Budget Rentacar failed but he did well out of his book and the chat circuit.


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## ctp6360 (6 July 2005)

Jesse,

I have read 2 of Anthony Robbin's books too and although he's not my fabourite he definitely has some good advice. The point of what I was saying though is, who is he to give advice? I mean yes obviously he is really rich and successful now, but how rich and successful was he before he started teaching other people to be rich and successful?


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## keebab (6 July 2005)

I guess it really depends on the author, I found books like Losing My Virginity by Richard Branson and Gonzo Marketing by Christopher Locke to be very valuable reads. They are not how-to books but simply biographys that chart the life and decisions of successful people. Some people need the information spelt out for them while others can read between the lines of a story and glean something valuable for their own lives. I read both and I don't regret doing that because I will usually pick up something very valuable from everything.  

On a slightly lighter note, a study of American bookstores a few years ago found that the most profitable square footage of most retail bookstores is what is dubbed "the male bashing section" containing all the titles around Why Men won't Commit, Why Men do this, Why won't he do this... Is there something here that we are missing boys???

Cheers

Mick


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## Jesse Livermore (6 July 2005)

ctp6360 said:
			
		

> Jesse,
> 
> I have read 2 of Anthony Robbin's books too and although he's not my fabourite he definitely has some good advice. The point of what I was saying though is, who is he to give advice? I mean yes obviously he is really rich and successful now, but how rich and successful was he before he started teaching other people to be rich and successful?



ctp6360,

Anthony Robbins wrote his first book, Unlimited Power, when he was 24, and the core of the book was on mental, physical, and emotional conditioning, their was very little to no mention of how to become financially wealthy.

His (and my) belief is that you can not create any external success untill you first have a solid mental framework. He was a millionaire before the age of 24, this was attained through popularizing Neuro Linguistic Programming, and an audio program called Personal Power which does include a section on wealth mastery. 

The Personal Power audio program sold over 30 million copies, and is (was) a 30 day program to "change your life", and as finances are a part of life he made mention to it in this program, however it is based around basic budgeting, saving, and compounding of investment profits and dividends, and was largely influenced by the likes of Sir John Templeton. He used his "role modeling" skills to explain the ways in which OTHERS who had created outstanding financial wealth do it.

So to answer your question, he did teach minor aspects of wealth creation before he became wealthy, but it was sort of an explantion of the basic theories and practices behind how financially wealthy people become that way, however now that HE has outstanding wealth he can explain it from his very own perspective.

Jesse Livermore


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## ctp6360 (6 July 2005)

Hi Jesse,

Thanks for explaining to me about Anthony Robbin's start, he definitely sounds like an exception to the phenomenon that I was talking about. Now that you mention it I actually read "Unlimited Power" when I borrowed it from my local library. I really enjoyed it and you're definitely right it wasn't focused on money at all.


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## ob1kenobi (7 July 2005)

When it comes to these sorts of books, read widely. You'll be surprised what you find! I would add the following: 

Tom Peters 
"The Pursuit of WOW", 
"Liberation Management", 
"Thriving on Chaos". 

Stephen Covey 
"The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People", 
"Principle Centred Leadership", 
"First Things First".  

Thomas Sergiovanni 
"Moral Leadership". 

Peter Senge 
"The Fifth Discipline". 

Peters Waterman Jr. 
"In Search of Excellence". 

Charles Birch 
"On Purpose" (not really about business but challenges you to reconstruct how you do things!). 

Wess Roberts & Bill Ross 
"Make It So: Leadership Lessons From Star Trek The Next Generation". 

M. Mitchell Waldrop 
"Complexity: The Emerging Science At The Edge Of Order And Chaos". 

James Gleick "Chaos: Making A New Science". 

Management Education Papers: 
"Managing The Entropic Organisation", 
"Managing From The Edge, Working From The Centre: Organisations, Complexity And The Search For Meaning". 

Edward De Bono: 
"The Six Thinking Hats", 
"Lateral Thinking", 
"Six Action Shoes", 
"I Am Right, You Are Wrong!" (My Favourite).

James Kouzes & Barry Posner
"The Leadership Challenge".

Margaret Wheatley
"Leadership and the New Science: Learning About Organisations From an Orderly Universe".

Management Today (Published monthly by the Australian Institute of Management) (Had an excellent interview with Roger Corbet in August 2004).

This is not an exhaustive list but some of the things I have found useful or return to as a reference from time to time.

My favourite quote is from Stephen Covey:
"Anything less than a conscious commitment to the important, is an unconscious commitment to the unimportant."


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## It's Snake Pliskin (7 July 2005)

Good thread!
I think everyone should have some of Robert Kiyosaki's books - Rich Dad Poor Dad series.


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## ob1kenobi (7 July 2005)

Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> Good thread!
> I think everyone should have some of Robert Kiyosaki's books - Rich Dad Poor Dad series.




I agree! What a great way to find out about other interesting things to read!


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## Jesse Livermore (7 July 2005)

Tom Butler-Bowdon is the author of "50 Self-Help Classics, 50 Success Classics, and 50 Spiritual Classics" - His books are a summarization of the best books in the area of motivation, success, and leadership. There are some life changing books summarized, I suggest that you read at least one them so you can take your life to the next level!

Check out the books at http://www.butler-bowdon.com/


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## DTM (7 July 2005)

Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> Good thread!
> I think everyone should have some of Robert Kiyosaki's books - Rich Dad Poor Dad series.




A very amusing read.  The first time I read it I didn't get it.  The second time a year later I finally clicked and have set up what I do through companies.  Read some of his other books too but not much substance in there.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (7 July 2005)

DTM said:
			
		

> A very amusing read.  The first time I read it I didn't get it.  The second time a year later I finally clicked and have set up what I do through companies.  Read some of his other books too but not much substance in there.




Yes, I agree his books are purely motivational and are written to change peoples' mindsets. He covers some important topics but is brief and at times vague on them. Anything to change the work for money mindset we have is good. I recommend them. Buy specialist books to learn the topics he covers though.


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## tech/a (7 July 2005)

I'm in the process of cleaning out my library.
If anyone is interested in business and motivational books
I'm happy to list those I no longer refer to here for purchase.
OR
I'm happy to start a swap club----I'll swap one of mine for one of yours etc.

I have many trade books I keep and refer to which if I establish a contact---like Rich Dan and a few others I'm happy to do a swap or refundable payment at the end of the read type of thing.
Id have 30 odd books that I'll keep some are in the 100s of $$s

Like all of Joe Rosses works valued at $350 each--there are 4 books.

Anyway just a thought.


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## ctp6360 (8 July 2005)

tech/a please list anything you are willing to sell, I am always on the lookout for new books on business/motivation/shares.


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## foznice (17 August 2008)

ctp6360 said:


> tech/a please list anything you are willing to sell, I am always on the lookout for new books on business/motivation/shares.




I can't say too much on the topic of getting rich by writing about getting rich.

However one book that I love and read over and over is "think and grow rich".  Napoleon Hill may not have been overly rich and successful prior to the publication of TAGR, but the contents of the book have come about from him studying other rich and successful people.  So from a proven practice what you preach approach, it's kinda there.  He talks about other peoples' financial success but not his own.

I should also add, that the book is not so much about getting financially rich as it is a life philosophy/motivational/success formula.  N.H does speak of his own success in the book, although it isn't financial per se.

But it raises an interesting issue.  The power of greed.  The book think and grow rich probably wouldn't be successful if it was called "think and grow succesful".  It's also interesting how, just in the market - that greed can overide rationality.  I'd never even considered if the pricinciples discussed in these books have been used by their own authors.  I just take for granted that they speak from experience!

Good thread though, I love reading books like this.


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## highonoctane (21 August 2008)

Great Thread!

A while ago I read a biography of Bernie Eccleston, mianly bcause I'm interestd in Formula 1 and its history but its quite an interesting read about a man who start life in the slums living with his Aunt, to comercialising Formula 1 and becoming one of the richest men in England... 

We're just lucky he didnt move into pollitics or millitary, because where Hitler failed, Bernie would have suceeded...


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