# Tastyworks is coming



## Virge666 (9 January 2017)

dead set cannot wait... 

I had seen a few of you all posting and drinking from the Kool-Aid... I must admit that I have changed a few OF my habits based on their research...  The main one being taking profits at 50%.

So whom here is an Aussie tasty trader tragic. podcasts on the way to work and sometimes stupid enough to stay awake and watch the lads live.

Personally... Since TOS kicked us all off their platform years ago... All I have had is IB to trade off and it is shot.

Bring on tastyworks... $12k a year I don't have to give the IB guys.


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## OmegaTrader (9 January 2017)

Please explain what you are talking about??
I am a beginner


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## The Bear (9 January 2017)

OmegaTrader said:


> Please explain what you are talking about??
> I am a beginner



https://tastyworks.com/


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## OmegaTrader (10 January 2017)

Please explain the excitement.

What is so good abut this broker.

A link is just their marketing. I can google that.


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## Virge666 (10 January 2017)

Easy,

But you would have to be an option player to understand.

Years ago a piece of software came out called ThinkorSwim, this piece of software was the oracle of options trading.  Still is IMHO.

The ASX regulators went into protection mode and kicked them out of the Aussie market in about 2008ish i think. They did this because the ASX regulator are dickheads and they were enjoying charging end users PER QUOTE at the time.

So for the last decade, all of us option traders have been relegated to either paying $30 a side for an options trade in this country or going to a discount broker like IB or OptionsExpress to be able to make any income trades.

Tastyworks will bring a TOS like platform back to the Aussie market, but here is the kicker, not only is is directly aimed at my style of trading which is premium selling BUT, commissions are US$1 per contract and US$0 for a closing trade.

I make about 10-12 trades a day, work that out at about 6-10 bucks a side and you will be on the same page.

THAT IS WHY I AM EXCITED !!!  With this - i have added some serious cash to my bottom line each month.


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## Warriortrader (10 January 2017)

Hi,

Im new here but a long time Tastytrader. I am given to understand that Tastyworks will not be available to Australian Customers because of problems they are facing with their Clearing house. Its the same problem they have with Canada, Switzerland, Germany, etc.

Mate, I was beyond excited too...but this news was devastating....sorry to bring this to you, but I thought you needed to know

WT


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## OmegaTrader (10 January 2017)

Virge666 said:


> Easy,
> 
> But you would have to be an option player to understand.
> 
> ...




Is it me or do these tasty peoples posts coming up out of nowhere seem suspicious???

So at the moment say Commesec fees

Internet (also charged upon exercise or assignment of the option)

$34.95 up to $10,000 in premium 0.35% (above $10,000)

Equity Option Contract (Open/Close) $0.13 (GST exclusive)

Equity Option Contract (Exercise/Assignment) $0.05 (GST exclusive)

Index Option Contract (Open/Close) $0.45 (GST exclusive)

Index Option Contract (Exercise/Assignment) $0.35 (GST exclusive)


So can you give me an example of what the difference would be on a $10,000 trade.

For example on commsec index option:


A $10,900 value, one way, to open or  close:

This is a close example trade

With an expensive premium of $218 and 5 contracts in 10 lots (XJO Index ETO)

commission was $34.63 
fees were  $2.25
+gst component 41.21
Total was $38.09

Total would be around $76.18 as you go both ways etc etc

Tasty trades fees are $1 a contract and a $0.1 fee per contract???
no closing fees

So $5.5

What happens if the contracts are relatively cheap?????

Say if the contacts were $2.18 instead of $218.

This would mean I would need 500 contracts which would cost

$550 not $5.5

Can you please explain what the savings would be in this example and alos in a $2.18 premium example.

Also why would an option writer be trading 6-10 times a day.

In your other post you stated that you write monthly options at 1% per month.

Are you affiliated with tasty trade??


Thanks


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## Virge666 (10 January 2017)

You sure... 

What references have you got... the last i heard was that we were good to go last week of January ?


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## Virge666 (10 January 2017)

OmegaTrader said:


> Is it me or do these tasty peoples posts coming up out of nowhere seem suspicious???
> 
> Can you please explain what the savings would be in this example and alos in a $2.18 premium example.
> 
> ...




Not affiliated with Tastytrade - been around a lot longer than they have - Dan Sheridan and Dan Kaufmann were my mentors when it came to option trading. The reason the posts have been popping up is due to the brokerage coming out here.

Your examples above mean very little to me  - sorry about that. I have been on IB since about 2007-8 so local shares and stocks just dont have the liquidity to do what i do.

OK - So my aim is 3% a month, dont always hit it... sometime never get near it and sometimes have a drawdown... but the aim is about 3% a month on a six figure account. 2015 averaged 2.14% and December sucked. 2015 was a cracker year though.

anyway.

Lets have an example of 6 of the positions i have on now - I have a straddle on the QQQ, calendar on the SPY, Iron Fly on FXE, debit spread on EWW, straddle on GLD and covered puts on IWM. Usually use 20-30 deltas on each side 45 days out.  I have a bunch of others... FB, XDA, FXY, RUT, XLI, XLU god knows what else.  Also holding BHP, CBA, NAB and ANZ and AP for Australian stuff.  anything that doesnt have a >15 cent spread in the option market which is pretty rare

I leave them on and close at 50% of my max profit. or i roll them to the next month with 18 - 20 days to go. If the straddles or naked positions go against me - i just roll up or roll out to the next month. If it really goes against me - I will take the stock and sell more options against the position to convert into a covered PUT/CALL position.

Rinse and repeat.

I also have a larger position of stocks that i actively sell options against. I think Tastytraders call them a core position, but they are pretty much covered calls and covered puts. Most of my position is this kind of thing with about 20% being the option trades.

as for trading 10-12 times a day - that is just how is works, you get the trades on and you aggressively take profits.

the breakdown would be 50% core, 20% options, 30% cash.

as for commissions. I pay about $6-12 a side for 5-10 contracts with IB. Tastyworks will half this.


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## OmegaTrader (10 January 2017)

You made 2.14% a month or a year??


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## Virge666 (10 January 2017)

OmegaTrader said:


> You made 2.14% a month or a year??




A month and that was with the mess that was my account post election. 

I did not do well post election. I am happy to post you a month by month spreadsheet with percentages as long as there are no amounts. pretty sure i can convert it to percentage for you.


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## OmegaTrader (10 January 2017)

What is the risk/ volatility


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## Warriortrader (10 January 2017)

Just wanted to add, that I am not affiliated to Tastytrade either. Basically been trading for over 12 years....almost exclusively Options...I trade with E*Trade (US) and a more crappier platform you would be hard pressed to find. But it is what it is.

I tried to alert the OP to the fact that Tastyworks is not available to us here in Oz...just like TOS!! Apparently a clearing house problem...I have been told by the people at tastytrade.

And I trade the US markets exclusively...

Edit - I only found this Forum...based on searching for "tastyworks Australia"....to see if there are other disappointed people like me...if there are large numbers of us, we could influence things...if not, then, it is just status quo
Cheers
WT


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## Virge666 (10 January 2017)

Warriortrader said:


> Just wanted to add, that I am not affiliated to Tastytrade either. Basically been trading for over 12 years....almost exclusively Options...I trade with E*Trade (US) and a more crappier platform you would be hard pressed to find. But it is what it is.
> 
> Edit - I only found this Forum...based on searching for "tastyworks Australia"....to see if there are other disappointed people like me...if there are large numbers of us, we could influence things...if not, then, it is just status quo
> Cheers
> WT




E-trade - geez...  you are at the bottom on the barrel, IB is not that bad, but it doesnt quite have delta calculation correct - and some of the strat graphs are wrong... but it is cheap and the newer Mosaic interface doesn't completely suck. and it is also only $2-3 a trade which is nicer than etrade.

I am all for getting together and hassling those people in blue suits to make this happen. I so miss the days of TOS.


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## Virge666 (10 January 2017)

OmegaTrader said:


> What is the risk/ volatility




Sorry, missed this.

What do you mean Risk / Vol.

How much Theta i have on at a time... How much Vol i trade in ... I dont understand the Q.


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## Warriortrader (10 January 2017)

Virge666 said:


> E-trade - geez...  you are at the bottom on the barrel, ....
> ...
> I am all for getting together and hassling those people in blue suits to make this happen. I so miss the days of TOS.




Yes, E-Trade is crap. But I have a awesome Commission negotiated with them. BTW I trade over 4000 trades a year and my comms were in excess of 30K. Now that isn't meant to be a "I'm bigger than you" statement...but just gives you an idea of often I trade. I gave my job to trade for a living.

Yes, mate, Im trying to garner as much "Aussie Support" as I can to leverage our case with Tom and Kristi...

Thanks for your comments..
WT


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## OmegaTrader (10 January 2017)

Virge666 said:


> Sorry, missed this.
> 
> What do you mean Risk / Vol.
> 
> How much Theta i have on at a time... How much Vol i trade in ... I dont understand the Q.





What is the return and risk of your strategy to calculate alpha.




Warriortrader said:


> Yes, E-Trade is crap. But I have a awesome Commission negotiated with them. BTW I trade over 4000 trades a year and my comms were in excess of 30K. Now that isn't meant to be a "I'm bigger than you" statement...but just gives you an idea of often I trade. I gave my job to trade for a living.
> 
> Yes, mate, Im trying to garner as much "Aussie Support" as I can to leverage our case with Tom and Kristi...
> 
> ...




That is a lot of commission and a lot of turnover..

What is the return and risk of your strategy to calculate alpha.
hahaha


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## Warriortrader (10 January 2017)

OmegaTrader said:


> What is the return and risk of your strategy to calculate alpha.
> That is a lot of commission and a lot of turnover..
> What is the return and risk of your strategy to calculate alpha.
> hahaha


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## Virge666 (10 January 2017)

Warriortrader said:


> Yes, E-Trade is crap. But I have a awesome Commission negotiated with them. BTW I trade over 4000 trades a year and my comms were in excess of 30K. Now that isn't meant to be a "I'm bigger than you" statement...but just gives you an idea of often I trade. I gave my job to trade for a living.
> 
> Yes, mate, Im trying to garner as much "Aussie Support" as I can to leverage our case with Tom and Kristi...
> 
> ...





Good on you mate - nice to have someone else out here to talk to. This was the main aim of the initial post - most people on forums are mainly beginners looking for holy grails and i really wanted to avoid them.

If i can help in any way with the hassling of both sides - please drop me a PM. I can also give you my real email on PM as well. I can write good and grammar well.

All the best.


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## Virge666 (10 January 2017)

OmegaTrader said:


> What is the return and risk of your strategy to calculate alpha.




Don't really have one - One metric i can give you in my Theta number. I try to collect about 30% of whatever my theta number is. So if i have sold a bunch of options worth $1000, I want to keep about $300 of that $1000 at the end of the month.

As for my portfolio, 50% in shares with options sold against, 20% in other options trade like straddles and calendars depending on IV and 30% in cash to defend my positions or ramp it up when IV is higher. 

Does that make sense to you ?


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## OmegaTrader (10 January 2017)

Virge666 said:


> Don't really have one - One metric i can give you in my Theta number. I try to collect about 30% of whatever my theta number is. So if i have sold a bunch of options worth $1000, I want to keep about $300 of that $1000 at the end of the month.
> 
> As for my portfolio, 50% in shares with options sold against, 20% in other options trade like straddles and calendars depending on IV and 30% in cash to defend my positions or ramp it up when IV is higher.
> 
> Does that make sense to you ?




So volatility will knock out 70% of your gains from the premiums???

Is that right?

If an equity graph/ data I can calculate what  am talking about.



> most people on forums are mainly beginners looking for holy grails and i really wanted to avoid them.




we are not that bad, still looking though...


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## minwa (10 January 2017)

Virge666 said:


> This was the main aim of the initial post - most people on forums are mainly beginners looking for holy grails and i really wanted to avoid them.




I found this a bit odd as you kicked off this thread with mentioning of Tasty Trader seeing as they are geared for beginners lol.


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## Virge666 (10 January 2017)

OmegaTrader said:


> So volatility will knock out 70% of your gains from the premiums???
> Is that right?
> If an equity graph/ data I can calculate what  am talking about.
> we are not that bad, still looking though...




Not really - I sell $1000 worth of theta. I will take profits at 50% to avoid gamma risk and use my capital a little better, so $500 gone right there.  The other 20% is spent on defending trades and losing trades.

As for searching for the oracle... there isnt one mate, i am sorry. There just isnt.

There are heaps of methods that are profitable, and they are ALL risk and return. The more you risk, the higher the chance of return. Trading is a craft, the sooner you just get in there and pick one and then become an expert at that craft - the sooner it becomes easier. Forget paper trading, just trade small, and try and make 1% a month... it is pretty easy once you get the hang of it.



minwa said:


> I found this a bit odd as you kicked off this thread with mentioning of Tasty Trader seeing as they are geared for beginners lol.



It is - but tastytrade is a methodology, and it is a very simple one. Most of these forums are full of guys still looking for that one technical thing that makes them rich... and it just doesnt exist. System this and newsletter that and Product A and Product B. You only have to make 1% a month to beat the market... $10 for every $1000 you have in the game...  thats it, $10 lousy dollars. Once you look at the game like that and stop looking for stocks that triple their value in 3 weeks, it is just easier.

Anyway - off my soapbox now. My dreams have been crushed by Warrior and I am off to see what country i can move to that supports retail investors.


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## OmegaTrader (10 January 2017)

Virge666 said:


> Not really - I sell $1000 worth of theta. I will take profits at 50% to avoid gamma risk and use my capital a little better, so $500 gone right there.  The other 20% is spent on defending trades and losing trades.
> 
> As for searching for the oracle... there isnt one mate, i am sorry. There just isnt.
> 
> ...



sounds easy 1% a month.
What am I missing..


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## Virge666 (10 January 2017)

OmegaTrader said:


> sounds easy 1% a month.
> What am I missing..




Have you got a $10K account,  dont answer that here, but just say yes or no in your head.

With a 10K account you can sell premium in single lots on the US market. You will need to be awake early or go to bed @ 2am to get your trades on. 

Learn about Calendars and Iron Condors. Look up the research on Tastytrade about both of them.Maybe even a butterfly spread... 

Dan Sheridan do a 10K portfolio course for $400 that is well worth while. You just need the course not the mentorship....  Dan Kaufmann has his own gig now and he does the same kind of thing. Both their courses will pay for themselves with the live trades they put on. I made $900 on the last Dan course i did.

But #1 - stop buying stocks. #2, if you do buy stocks - sell 30 delta calls against them. Always sell premium against whatever you own.

1% easy.


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## OmegaTrader (10 January 2017)

Virge666 said:


> Have you got a $10K account,  dont answer that here, but just say yes or no in your head.
> 
> With a 10K account you can sell premium in single lots on the US market. You will need to be awake early or go to bed @ 2am to get your trades on.
> 
> ...



why doesn't everyone just do that and make 1% a year?
Why waste time doing anything else?


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## Virge666 (11 January 2017)

OmegaTrader said:


> why doesn't everyone just do that and make 1% a year?
> Why waste time doing anything else?




Cause it is boring and it it's a grind. You have to love it to do it.

There is no glory... No doubling you money in six weeks... No real buzz

And you can't do it with a 5000 account. Well you can.. But the fees hurt


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## Virge666 (11 January 2017)

From Tom this morning with regards to Aussie accounts...

! I’m looking at every possible work-around to on board you guys from Australia. The freaking regulatory agencies are threatening our clearing firm with huge fines and legal action if we accept even unsolicited accounts from Australia. It’s going to be a battle but we will figure out something….That I promise.


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## minwa (11 January 2017)

Virge666 said:


> From Tom this morning with regards to Aussie accounts...
> 
> ! I’m looking at every possible work-around to on board you guys from Australia. The freaking regulatory agencies are threatening our clearing firm with huge fines and legal action if we accept even unsolicited accounts from Australia. It’s going to be a battle but we will figure out something….That I promise.




Haven't heard of any broker going to battle with ASIC and passing regulations. I am almost convinced they are well bribed to keep competitors out. Hopefully they make it the more competition the better.


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## OmegaTrader (11 January 2017)

Virge666 said:


> Cause it is boring and it it's a grind. You have to love it to do it.
> 
> There is no glory... No doubling you money in six weeks... No real buzz
> 
> And you can't do it with a 5000 account. Well you can.. But the fees hurt







minwa said:


> The S&P500 index averages are a bit higher than 6%.
> 
> 1928-2016    11.42%
> 1967-2016    11.45%
> ...




I am looking at what has been said.

So lets say I could make 12% a year.

But I am in Australia, so would invest in ASX200 not SP500.
and get a lot of taxation advantages.

Also the time periods, go from 88 years to 10 years. The times you pick would change the results a bit etc etc

Nevertheless.


Additional returns of 12% the periods using MINWA numbers

1928-2016    .58%
1967-2016    .55%
2007-2016    3.35%


But what about tax....

At a 30% tax rate the return reduces to 8.4% per year.

IN Australia I am getting 50% capital gains discount, around 25%tax rate at top level and 15% at 30% tax bracket

Also I get 30% refundable imputation.

Also if it is really passive, why sell it just will it to the next generation who also don't sell it etc etc

But even if we ignore this 

I am making again

1928-2016    .58%
1967-2016    .55%
2007-2016    3.35%

So  how much do I need to make it worthwhile

Say I want to make $75,000 per anum 

75000/.0058=   $12,931,034.48

75000/.0335= $2,238,805.97


so I need between 2.2-13 million capital to make it worthwhile and this is without drawing out anything during bad times.

So unless the strategy has risk adjusted returns, meaning I can gear it.

But without numbers or any proof of that then this is all i can assume.

Why go through all the heart ache and risk all that capital.

If I had 13 million, would I be bothered to do all that?

That is the question..

Also 

Looking at the other posts in this strategy around 70% of the premium is lost.

so given 12% return, premiums need to be 40% a year to cover volatility, protection etc etc

There also other questions to think about.

 I write a put option and the stock goes up,Ok so i get the premium.

It stays the same ok, so i get the premium

It falls, at what point do I hedge the loss, or do i just buy the shares and wear a loss

ok so what do i do then write more options against the shares..

It starts to get complicated very quickly..

not a lot of surplus at .5% additional return. especially if the volatility of the strategy was more than the market???

Which i don't know...




minwa said:


> Haven't heard of any broker going to battle with ASIC and passing regulations. I am almost convinced they are well bribed to keep competitors out. Hopefully they make it the more competition the better.





Asic still has to make sure that brokers are financially sound.......


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## Virge666 (11 January 2017)

minwa said:


> Haven't heard of any broker going to battle with ASIC and passing regulations. I am almost convinced they are well bribed to keep competitors out. Hopefully they make it the more competition the better.




I am thinking of using relatives in the UK to open the account and trade from there.

Wonder if NZ has any of these issues ???


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## Virge666 (11 January 2017)

OK - so you want to make $75K - i am going to ignore tax as tax on derivatives is different to tax on shares.  No idea what that is  - but check with your accountant.

1. You cant do it on on the ASX - the spreads are too wide, FEB BHP options are always 12-15 cent spread and that just kills your profits. If you want to trade the ASX you have do be more directional. The US markets are 1 cents wide and much less slippage. Lots of liquidity.

You can do the maths on what you need to have to make $75K, my guess is a little over $800K will get you $75K when accounting for whats money is invested. As you get better - it will be a lot less.

But it all comes down to risk - if you want to make more cash - you add more theta, but you also take that risk on. The other part of options that is worth researching is "Notional value" and understand what the option products are you are trading and what they are really worth for each contract.

If you have the capital - there is nothing stopping you selling or buying futures contracts and selling option contracts against it.  Just match up the value correctly. this will lower your fees dramatically. Also you have an option of portfolio margin if you really want to leverage yourself up.

As i said before - Risk vs Return. i can give you a system that is proven 98% correct all day long - but you wont make much money.

I am now officially done on the hand holding - if you are truly interested - watch the WDIS series on TastyTrade and that will give you a much better grounding that what i am typing up here.

All the best.


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## OmegaTrader (11 January 2017)

Virge666 said:


> OK - so you want to make $75K - i am going to ignore tax as tax on derivatives is different to tax on shares.  No idea what that is  - but check with your accountant.
> 
> 1. You cant do it on on the ASX - the spreads are too wide, FEB BHP options are always 12-15 cent spread and that just kills your profits. If you want to trade the ASX you have do be more directional. The US markets are 1 cents wide and much less slippage. Lots of liquidity.
> 
> ...




800k = 75k

=9.35% per year...

Passive investing is better than your so called 12% strategy.

less time less stress.

Unless there is less risk.

Actual risk of your 12% strategy,I am still waiting or an answer....


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## Warriortrader (12 January 2017)

Virge666 said:


> Anyway - off my soapbox now. My dreams have been crushed by Warrior and I am off to see what country i can move to that supports retail investors.




Im just the messenger...but you now have it from the horses mouth...seeing your quote from Tom.
Let me know, if you manage to think of a work around...



Virge666 said:


> With a 10K account you can sell premium in single lots on the US market. You will need to be awake early or go to bed @ 2am to get your trades on.
> 1% easy.




Im up every morning at 2:30 am, in winter and 3:30 am our summer....as Virge says, you got to love doing what you do, and I do. 

And I really dont have much more to add to Virge's comments on the general tastytrade mechanics. All sound ones, and articulated well.


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## Warriortrader (12 January 2017)

That said, I think it still might be worth using a Demo account, if they can offer one on Tastyworks...the analysis prior to putting on a trade, will be small consolation...


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## Virge666 (12 January 2017)

OmegaTrader said:


> 800k = 75k
> 
> =9.35% per year...
> 
> ...




OT,

I am not here to sell you anything - i don't need to prove anything to you. if you wish to learn the method - head to the website and start from there.

The 75K from 800K was an example that all you had to make was 9.35% a year to hit your 75K. Thought it is a nice easy start for a newbie.

Let me give you my performance as of today from July 1 2017. I started with an amount that is a six figure amount. I have 50% in stocks with covered calls and covered puts against them. I have 50% as a trading account for various option strategies and I usually have about 30% in cash which i use up when volatility is high. I trade from about 6am in the morning till 8am in Summer and from 11:30pm to about 12:30am through winter. Not sure which season i prefer to be honest. but about 2 hours a day, maybe a bit more with research.

As of right now looking at my IB portfolio. I am up 22.7% for the Financial year. I was bit higher than that before December but that is how the cookie crumbles. Slippage and fees are around 4-7% presently and if i can figure a way to get a Tastyworks account - the fee reduction amount will increase my returns another few percent.

If you think that the above is agreeable with your trading plan and lifestyle - you know where to go. If you think i am a Charleton selling snake oil and a newsletter, then please continue your search for the grail elsewhere, may i suggest trading the London breakout strategy on the cable if you want some higher returns with smaller capital


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## Virge666 (12 January 2017)

Warriortrader said:


> That said, I think it still might be worth using a Demo account, if they can offer one on Tastyworks...the analysis prior to putting on a trade, will be small consolation...




They are not doing one... or the last i heard was that it is only the very bottom of the list. Tom personally hates paper trading.

I have noticed the analyse page is also getting the boot... but i think the backlash will be too high for that to last. I reckon they will mod the "curve" to be the analyse page... or something close to it.


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## Warriortrader (12 January 2017)

Virge666 said:


> OT,
> 
> ..... from July 1 2017.




July 2016, I think you meant...



Virge666 said:


> OT,
> .... I am up 22.7% for the Financial year. I was bit higher than that before December but that is how the cookie crumbles. Slippage and fees are around 4-7% presently and if i can figure a way to get a Tastyworks account - the fee reduction amount will increase my returns another few percent.




Thats good stuff, however, you do not need to prove yourself to anybody...
AND 
I am happy to support every endeavour to help us with a Tastyworks account. Last year, my total Comms exceeded 31K USD...I had over 3500 trades during the year..but E*Trade comm structure wasn't the greatest, but I have now negotiated rates that are comparable with Tastyworks. That said, Im not keen on Tastyworks for their comm structure (that helps of course), but their platform is much like ThinkorSwim, and better...if you traded on E*trade...ha ha...well, never mind


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## Warriortrader (12 January 2017)

Virge666 said:


> They are not doing one... or the last i heard was that it is only the very bottom of the list. Tom personally hates paper trading.
> 
> I have noticed the analyse page is also getting the boot... but i think the backlash will be too high for that to last. I reckon they will mod the "curve" to be the analyse page... or something close to it.




Quoting Tom from an email response on the 6th of January 2017
"_I have a few ideas and we maybe even have a workaround. Australia caught me by surprise. I forgot about all these idiotic regulations. So, I’m working on both, a demo and a real account. I hear you.
Tom_"

Might not be a paper trading one..but one where we can run a few analysis...much like you can do on the Demo version of Dough.

Hearing Tom's presentation to Dan Sheridan's team (google it or You tube it)...you will see that he plans to change the "Curve" view of a trade into a semi-analyse page in the coming releases...and if you listen to him today "confirm and send" I think it was, he defends his decision...but, like you said, lets wait and see.

Thanks for your responses.
WT


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## OmegaTrader (12 January 2017)

Virge666 said:


> OT,
> 
> I am not here to sell you anything - i don't need to prove anything to you. if you wish to learn the method - head to the website and start from there.
> 
> ...





Thank you for being so detailed 22.7% is a good number by itself. risk details etc etc

Anyway my post is off topic now for the tastyworks is coming narrative.

Thanks


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## lone ranger (16 December 2017)

OmegaTrader said:


> Thank you for being so detailed 22.7% is a good number by itself. risk details etc etc
> 
> Anyway my post is off topic now for the tastyworks is coming narrative.
> 
> Thanks



I have been trading Iron condors and covered calls IN us markets.for 8 years in Australia through optionsexpress.  now shwaab australia, I could not trade outside US with think or swim and setting up a US Company though not costly is complex for foreigners. I email tasty trade and ring them every month for updates on when they will open Australian trading Accounts and the problem at the moment is the protection of the ASX monopoly they are terrible the ASX ,I will leave their restrictictive trade practices and unfair trading for another time. Tasty trade said they are having trouble with ASIC with prudential requirements, GST and legal issues generally, they say Australia and ASIC is really tough to deal with.
I graduated with an Econometrics and and accounting degree in 1991, and have been watching the market since 1987 crash, nothing was a good investment till I figured out iron condors myself after losing with buying options for about a year and a half in 2007-2009, in 2009 iron condors and covered calls became my main game, I would have loved to delta hedge but I did not have enough capital left, I have had to use a lot of my earning to live as I am semi retired. so my investment stays stuck 5,000 Capital but that is enough. I have glanced through most of the txts and most are optimistic and got their hearts in right place, I think I should point out what it is like to day trade for a living the tasty trade way through a schwaab account in Australia. Firstly schwaab do not provide anything but basic information, but they are cost competitive and they are very good for routing trades with fairly good spreads. I subscribed to a dodgy option site which for 35$ for life provides access to a watch list of the hundred most liquid us equity and etf options, their IV rank, and you can select by high volatility and low volatile alphabetical order or etfs only. The rest of the tasty trade stuff I have recreated myself in excel spreadsheets, training my self to be a  quant came easy with an Econometrics degree background, and I have worked with spreadsheets from lotus 123 and multi plan from 1986 till 1992 then quattro pro the first solver was there then excel 95 destroyed them all forever, I utilise a realtime stock market data add inn for excel called market.xls I have 3 lifetime licences I bought them ,like my watch list when the companies opened and they offered cheap deals they are expensive now, I think market xls for full service is about $300 AUD a year I got each of my 3 licenses for life for $195AUD If you are a quant market.xls is well worth it, even though most of it is full of technical indicator rubbish, people believe that stuff, but people also believe in big foot, and the loch ness monster, and nostradamuses prophecies. As an aside there is two guys on tastytrade who talk about technicals, they seem to be an unrelated guest team,but Tom and the team and DR data never speak anything about technicals except to prove what a waste of time they are.
Trading Iron Condors was easy for the two years previous to this january 2017 since then with low volatility selling options has been tight and I have lost 500 this year, I have mad a bit with poor mans covered calls and covered calls, because as the market has been going up the higher volatility has been on the call side, and you net more selling them and you can make a bit if the share is exercised which it has, also with poor mans covered calls you make a bit if you buy in the money LEAPS and sell a short term out of the money call. The reason why I lost on the iron condors is not so much the low volatility, but the market broke out the wing and cost a lot to buy back whether exercised or worse before exercise. Al Sherbin ex tasty trade DR data before the current one, and there was a chicogo university maths lecturer there for a while there ,real young guy watch his episodes on the Kelly criterion absolutely crucial. Al Sherbin's book showed me when to set stops according to my trading parameters and risk return ratio and edge, and capital.I have not had a loss since and I am regaining my money fairly solidly..
Apart from AL Sherbins book, if you want to be a tasty trader you must read Sheldon Natenbergs book on volatility quite old now but the original classic on volatility, he has been interviewed on tasty trade on back issues worth checking out I got a laugh when he said, he works for one of Chicago's biggest option writing and market making firms, he said people always ask him if they hire technical analysts or how many fundamental analysts work there  he said none, and when they ask why, he said if they did there would be some thing wrong, as I quant I get a kick out of that, it might take people many years to understand why they don't have any, and some might never understand.
Lawrence G McMillans Book on options is essential too "options as strategic investment". I picked up this huge 1000 page plus book at Dymocks in the bargain bin for $5 dollars while the finance shelves are stacked with rubbish, like think and grow rich and dozens of complete systems to lose the shirt of your back, but they require nothing more than arithmetic and luck and not much intelligence.
Another fantastic and essential book is Paul Willmott Introduction to Quantitave finance.
And for excel and financial modelling nothing beats Simon Beninga's Financial modelling
And of course the university text Hull options futures and other derivatives is great too.
I have quite a few secret books,  but most are about finance not necessarily just options.
You need to grasp at least  at a basic level the maths involved in these books to be a successful tasty trader, other wise you will not understand what or why they do things.
I myself am making most of my spreadsheets available for free on the internet soon, in financial blogs, I will update maybe when they are live. To get up to speed insanely quckly with excel go to youtube and watch Mr excel bill jelens podcasts and Mike 'excelisfun' Girvans podcasts and Bill jelen and Mike do a podcast together called duelling excel. Mr excels books and videos are the best from novices to experts, and so are the writers on his staff at Mr excel. If you aint got tasty trade platform and you want to trade the tasty way you need spreadsheets.However a warning MR excel and mike are not finance guys they are more accounting and general business related, so it is really to just learn to how to use spreadsheets, the best book with full blown implementations with explanations of options is in Simon Beninga's book, Willmot provides them but does not do detailed instruction same with the Hull book.
Most people seem not to understand the basis of tasty trade trading and a lot of people here disrespect it out of complete ignorance of what it is how it is done and the principles, I have spent the last few hours arguing with bitcoin tulip mania traders, I am afraid bit coin happened in the netherlands in 1800's and was first chronicled in the book Popular delusions and the madness of crowds, with tulip mania, but there is nothing so strong as self confirmation bias and wilfull blindness to not see these things.
More about the mechanics of trading an iron condor the tasty way debit spreads , and a brief explanation of their practice of selling strangles and straddles, they do it with controlled risk but I do not have the collateral to do undefined risk trades and generally are not comfortable with the  possibility of potential huge losses. I find it tough to be convinced of the worth of undefined risk trades even with lots of cash, I suppose if you have 100million to play with like tom it is fairly low risk.Your returns from trading undefined credit strangles make bitcoin look like babies stuff,more later.


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## Warriortrader (16 December 2017)

Good to hear from you, Lone!! Ive sent you a private message. Give me a shout when you have a tic.

Cheers mate
WT


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## tradefloor (3 January 2018)

Hi Lone, 

Great to hear your story. It's good to see people in Australia who understand how to trade Iron Condors.

Obviously, the low volatility has made it very hard to trade options strategies that typically do well, like covered calls and iron condors. 

Regarding IV Rank, we include it as a default in our options trading game (and obviously our full platforms) - I think it's crucial for successful trading. 

What is the biggest barrier to you trading in Australia, is it the tech or the fees?

Kind Regards,
Ivan


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## TortoiseTrader (16 May 2018)

Hi,
I'm interested in SCHWAAB account - Don't you need min account of 25K US?
Anyway, Lone thanks for the interesting post. I just want to look at trading US stocks with cheaper brokerage from Australia. Any restrictions for writing options or spreads? 
Do the US regulators take any tax out of profits ? How do you work the tax treatment here?
I'd appreciate any info you can spare.....cheers


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## raftrader (14 September 2018)

Virge666 said:


> dead set cannot wait...
> 
> I had seen a few of you all posting and drinking from the Kool-Aid... I must admit that I have changed a few OF my habits based on their research...  The main one being taking profits at 50%.
> 
> ...




Finally, tastyworks is coming to Australia!
tastyworks.com.au

https://www.tastytrade.com/tt/shows...meet-the-tastyworks-australia-team-09-13-2018


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## Warriortrader (14 September 2018)

raftrader said:


> Finally, tastyworks is coming to Australia!
> tastyworks.com.au
> 
> https://www.tastytrade.com/tt/shows...meet-the-tastyworks-australia-team-09-13-2018




Yes! Earliest date expected is Jan 2019. But those interested can sign up on tastyworks.com.au


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## SPenn (14 March 2019)

Looks like it’s hapoenjng finally. Below email I got today from tastyworks-
———————————————-////—-/
Hi 

We are very close. We have been told the Australia launch is going to happen within the next month.

- Nick Battista 

@TraderNickyBAT


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## Tpbal (5 June 2019)

Now open for Aussies... ( on USA options only from what i can see )


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## rsthayil (22 August 2019)

I was wondering if there is a community/forum where australian tastytraders share their trades, looking for advice, sharing trade ideas, trading lifestyle (what time you trade) etc?


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## tastyworkstrader (27 August 2019)

Warriortrader said:


> Yes! Earliest date expected is Jan 2019. But those interested can sign up on tastyworks.com.au





rsthayil said:


> I was wondering if there is a community/forum where australian tastytraders share their trades, looking for advice, sharing trade ideas, trading lifestyle (what time you trade) etc?



Hey guys - hope all is great! Old news I know that tastyworks is in Australia, and there are great community groups to jump in with


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## grant7 (8 September 2022)

Just wondering lot of hype with this coming has anyone been using this broker for US options and how has it gone ? Thanks !


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