# Live trading rooms (PlanetWealth, 21st Century etc.)



## pustanio

Hi All

I am a very busy company director, but have an interest in trading futures.

Really have an interest in 21st century eminis, and have searched these forums, found conflicting informaion on the company itself.

Watched their video, havent signed up yet, they want $8000, but the strategies they use seem to make sense and cover the risks to profit ration ok.

Only really found old posts about 21st century, and I cant see how they can be a scam and still operate without being in ACA etc every other week??

The other one (planetwealth) have an autotrader system, where trades placed by the moderator are automatically placed on your behalf if you are not online, and authorise them to do so.

I think that is a great idea, as already working 60hours a week, I wouldnt get much night time hours to sit and trade (and learn to trade) for now anyway.

So basically, has anyone had any experience with either companies?

I know they both place results on their websites, and seem to be on the same profit margins for the last month, but any one can post results, doesnt mean the trades were actually completed by them

Thanks for any replies..


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## drsmith

The first (and perhaps only) question to consider with a trading system is why the developers make a commercial decision to sell it rather than use it themselves.


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## Mr J

Many scams don't appear on ACA. I don't know anything about it, but my bias would be negative. I certainly wouldn't hand them $8000, unless you consider that a relatively small sum.

The biggest question to ask yourself is why they are doing this. I imagine that someone who can offer a good trading service is far more likely to seek proper capital. It isn't necessarily a scam, but since most are I wouldn't do anything without a lot of information.


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## pustanio

thanks for the replies, cant believe 2 replies in 5 minutes!

Both companies trade their own money using their systems.

For me honestly, the $8000 investment isnt going to cause me any financial hardship, but still dont want to waste it on nothing.

Happy to spend it on a system that works.


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## prawn_86

Ask them for a LIVE demo first, not just hindsight trades. My bias would also be negative.


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## mazzatelli

pustanio said:


> thanks for the replies, cant believe 2 replies in 5 minutes!
> 
> Both companies trade their own money using their systems.
> 
> For me honestly, the $8000 investment isnt going to cause me any financial hardship, but still dont want to waste it on nothing.
> 
> Happy to spend it on a system that works.




I know people who signed up to E-minis. They didn't make any money and haven't met any fellow traders who made money.
All are on simulators.

You are wasting your time looking at them


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## lianeisme

I would suggest you always do your own research read the papers read the forums concentrate on a few stocks in sectors that interest you and get to know the companies. Watch the market on those stock for a few weeks before you jump in.
Noting is that simple if you are using their methods it could be driving the markets in the direction they want. Read charts use your own gut feeling and hold on to your backside. Never rely on one lot of information from one source.  Just my opinion I may be wrong, I wish you all the best


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## trainspotter

Hey there busy company director pustanio. If you can easily afford to lose $8,000 purchasing a fool proof "system" then why don't you just come with me to the casino ? We can have a few drinks, kick back, get to know each other a little better and then go into the International Room and do some REAL gambling. If you have time to do RESEARCH and watch videos on the two aforementioned trading systems to find out if they fit your desire to enter the market, then you have time to do your OWN research on what stocks to buy and when to sell.

OR put the whole lot on horse number 2, Race 5 in Doomben.


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## pustanio

trainspotter said:


> Hey there busy company director pustanio. If you can easily afford to lose $8,000 purchasing a fool proof "system" then why don't you just come with me to the casino ? We can have a few drinks, kick back, get to know each other a little better and then go into the International Room and do some REAL gambling. If you have time to do RESEARCH and watch videos on the two aforementioned trading systems to find out if they fit your desire to enter the market, then you have time to do your OWN research on what stocks to buy and when to sell.
> 
> OR put the whole lot on horse number 2, Race 5 in Doomben.




thanks for the comment.

had the time to watch a 1 and a half hour video, but dont have the time to trade in US hours when I should be sleeping after a 10 hour day in the office.

My core business makes me a lot of money, and has been built up over several years and is now extremely successful. $8000 is a sizeable amount of money dont get me wrong.
I wouldnt gamble it on a horse, however I see a membership fee to either of the companies as an acceptable investment on the returns they offer.


I have no affiliation with either company in any way, and no experience at all in trading stocks of any kind.


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## MRC & Co

Sorry to be harsh, but this is the fact I think of when I see all these Qs on forums:

Typical wannabe 'trader' out to make a quick buck, which just doesn't happen unless you take a punt and get lucky, but without the skill you will end up on the pile of wasteaways like so many before you and so many after you.

Thechartist.com.au way cheaper, far more reputable and valuable.  You will have your periods of grinding away, going backwards, but in the end, you will see an edge.  That is trading.


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## wayneL

pustanio said:


> 21st century [& their offshoot Planet wealth]




Say no more. Go armed with a crucifix, a wooden stake, a mallet and silver bullets.


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## doctorj

As a very successful director working 10 hours a day, I'm sure you are well versed with the concept of due diligence. Would you acquire another business without independently verified evidence that they can do what they say they do and they have what they say they have (license to operate, audited accounts etc)?

If not, then why would you even consider spending a considerable amount of your own money based on the promises of a stranger?

Further more - say you worked at a mortgage broker or something and you were looking for an acquisition.  You wouldn't go out and buy a life insurer! If you know nothing about it, you might as well be throwing money at a wall to see if any of it sticks.

Save yourself the hassle and don't do it. 

Spend some of those other 14 hours a day you're not working for a few months studying the art/science of making money in the markets and then have a look at these offerings again. There is no get rich quick. If you want others to do the work for you, go plonk the money in a fund.


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## nunthewiser

um ..........

its called discrete advertising

thankyou for listening 

yours sincerely 

marketing team at planet century


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## tech/a

*RUN FOREST RUN!!*


I Find it rather convienient that our 3X's poster is smack bang in these guys TARGET Market!


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## Wysiwyg

Well if they don`t make it, there is always the recruitment game.


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## drsmith

pustanio said:


> My core business makes me a lot of money, and has been built up over several years and is now extremely successful. $8000 is a sizeable amount of money dont get me wrong.
> I wouldnt gamble it on a horse, however I see a membership fee to either of the companies as an acceptable investment on the returns they offer.



A membership fee for something worthwhile is one thing but if the 21st Century packages are anything to go by you would essentially be paying for crap.


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## Cartman

pustanio said:


> Hi All
> 
> I am a very busy company director, but have an interest in trading futures.
> 
> Really have an interest in 21st century eminis, and have searched these forums, found conflicting informaion on the company itself.
> 
> Watched their video, havent signed up yet, they want $8000, but the strategies they use seem to make sense and cover the risks to profit ration ok.
> 
> Only really found old posts about 21st century, and I cant see how they can be a scam and still operate without being in ACA etc every other week??
> 
> The other one (planetwealth) have an autotrader system, where trades placed by the moderator are automatically placed on your behalf if you are not online, and authorise them to do so.
> 
> I think that is a great idea, as already working 60hours a week, I wouldnt get much night time hours to sit and trade (and learn to trade) for now anyway.
> 
> So basically, has anyone had any experience with either companies?
> 
> I know they both place results on their websites, and seem to be on the same profit margins for the last month, but any one can post results, doesnt mean the trades were actually completed by them
> 
> Thanks for any replies..






lol --- that was one of the better SPAM posts --- u are obviously much more intelligent than some of your predecessors --- except for the fact that you guys ALWAYS spruke this stuff on one of your first 5 posts -----

use your noggin you guys and make 50 posts about nothing b4 you try and spruke something ---- at least it will look almost believable that way ----- oh hang on -- that would require some genuine effort wouldnt it ----- forget that suggestion :  

gets tiring after a while 

just for the record, the 21st E mini boyz use a sophisticated blend of MACD and Stochastic  combination with their own "special" parameters  ----- if u r really interested, i'll sell u mine for half their price ( now whats $4 grand times 100 punters ----- mmmm --- now i see what the attraction is    ----- who needs to know how to trade !!!


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## trainspotter

pustanio said:


> thanks for the comment.
> 
> had the time to watch a 1 and a half hour video, but dont have the time to trade in US hours when I should be sleeping after a 10 hour day in the office.
> 
> My core business makes me a lot of money, and has been built up over several years and is now extremely successful. $8000 is a sizeable amount of money dont get me wrong.
> I wouldnt gamble it on a horse, however I see a membership fee to either of the companies as an acceptable investment on the returns they offer.
> 
> 
> I have no affiliation with either company in any way, and no experience at all in trading stocks of any kind.




You seem to be missing what I am trying to tell you. If you are quite adept in the business world and it takes 10 hours a day (plus travel) then you are a very busy man indeed. You seriously do not have time to trade futures on the US market when you should be asleep. Instead of dropping 8k into the abyss of the money market via one of the schemes you have mentioned I am merely suggesting that you take me to the casino and I would have a better chance of "earning" money for you playing Texas Hold 'Em poker on your behalf. Subsequently as I do not know how to play the aforementioned card game it would be a pointless exercise BUT we would have a lot of fun before, during and after with your money. 

Like I suggested and you have timetabled, the amount of energy you have placed into this motion of discovery is a mere one and one half hours in total. To put it simply, if you decided to be time efficient and have a set goal in mind, this mere 90 minutes can make you alot of money after you have spent at least 3 to 4 months of observation of the market inclusive of due diligence (as mentioned above)

My opinion is it would be better for you to stick to what you know and make as much money there as you can before you place hard earned capital into a scheme that has been torn asunder by my fellow ASFers. I believe their opinions are in the negative on the subject matter at hand and requires no further explanantion really.

I wish you the best of good fortune in your endeavours and I would recommend that you discourse to someone in your clique of companions who has the necessary wisdom in what you are trying to achieve.

By the way ... why invest on the futures market?


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## overit

Cartman said:


> if u r really interested, i'll sell u mine for half their price ( now whats $4 grand times 100 punters ----- mmmm ---




I must be a cheap *****. I will sell/teach you my system for a chicken schnitzel with chips topped with tomato sauce and cheese. (thats 1 chicken schnitzel/chips times 100 punters ----- mmm 1 fat barstard!) 

You can pick from a MA system, stochastic system or candlestick system. Buy one and get another one of your choice for only a chocolate milkshake.


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## Wysiwyg

Is everyone saying ye can get the same info. for a lot, lot less?


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## pustanio

ok trainspotter, get your point.

to answer your question as to why futures - after my limited research it seemed to look like easier money than other markets. I intend to sticking to what I know, but the way my business runs any further cash injection wont really create any more profit for me, so wanted to diversify and futures (through the positive marketing material I had read) looked promising.

@ cartman - dont see how what I wrote would make you think I am with either of these companies. Thanks for the credit though on my intelligance. I can understand how many posts from spammers are here, I have read some of them and have seen the guys get flamed. My questions were genuine, and only asked after I used the search function.

@ doctorj - funnily enough, I was a mortgage broker for 5 years prior to what I do now. Thanks for the honest comments. I had looked at managed funds and the way the market has been in the last 8 months or so I am glad I didnt go down that track. Thought that futures had a lower risk of losing money, at least not in bulk amounts like managed funds.

The way I was looking at this venture really was like managed funds, only in futures market.

Anyway, not a single go for it from the people that replied, so looks like its not really as good as it may sound.


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## mazzatelli

Cartman said:


> just for the record, the 21st E mini boyz use a sophisticated blend of MACD and Stochastic  combination with their own "special" parameters




It is just basic divergence they use. You could glean the same information from Alexander Elder's book.

Plus the real deal breaker is initially they provide hand holding, but after some access to a "live" trading room they charge further $$$ to access that room.


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## Naked shorts

pustanio said:


> The way I was looking at this venture really was like managed funds, only in futures market.




To me you sound like a fraud trying to generate interest in these companies.

But on the unlikely chance you are for real, I will try to help.

These companies are jokes and the people that run them know it. 

If you want someone else to manage your money because you are too busy, then go to this website
http://www.barclayhedge.com/
Sign up and pay for the "fund of fund" database ($2k), find a few funds that meet your criteria and call them up and tell them you have money to invest.

(Im not affiliated with Barclay Hedge)

Learning to trade for yourself is a full time effort and unless you are willing to step down from your job and trade full time for one year+, do not bother.


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## wayneL

Naked shorts said:


> To me you sound like a fraud trying to generate interest in these companies.
> 
> But on the unlikely chance you are for real, I will try to help.
> 
> These companies are jokes and the people that run them know it.
> 
> If you want someone else to manage your money because you are too busy, then go to this website
> http://www.barclayhedge.com/
> Sign up and pay for the "fund of fund" database ($2k), find a few funds that meet your criteria and call them up and tell them you have money to invest.
> 
> (Im not affiliated with Barclay Hedge)
> 
> Learning to trade for yourself is a full time effort and unless you are willing to step down from your job and trade full time for one year+, do not bother.




Agreed 100%

Or develop some *end of day* method of trading.... either on your own or with the help of someone like Radge, who has already been mentioned.

Clowns like the others ones mentioned are no help to a busy business person... and doubtful to anyone for that matter.


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## pustanio

thanks, I will check out that site.

BTW if I could go back and edit the post with reference to the company names I would..

But cant find an edit function on the posts.


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## Timmy

mazzatelli said:


> I know people who signed up to E-minis. They didn't make any money and haven't met any fellow traders who made money.
> All are on simulators.
> 
> You are wasting your time looking at them




Yes



MRC & Co said:


> Sorry to be harsh, but this is the fact I think of when I see all these Qs on forums:
> 
> Typical wannabe 'trader' out to make a quick buck, which just doesn't happen unless you take a punt and get lucky, but without the skill you will end up on the pile of wasteaways like so many before you and so many after you.
> 
> Thechartist.com.au way cheaper, far more reputable and valuable.  You will have your periods of grinding away, going backwards, but in the end, you will see an edge.  That is trading.




Yes



nunthewiser said:


> um ..........
> 
> its called discrete advertising
> 
> thankyou for listening
> 
> yours sincerely
> 
> marketing team at planet century




OH GOD YES!



tech/a said:


> *RUN FOREST RUN!!*



Yes



mazzatelli said:


> It is just basic divergence they use. You could glean the same information from Alexander Elder's book.
> 
> Plus the real deal breaker is initially they provide hand holding, but after some access to a "live" trading room they charge further $$$ to access that room.




Yes!

I'll have what she's having.


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## jono1887

wayneL said:


> Say no more. Go armed with a crucifix, a wooden stake, a mallet and silver bullets.




you forgot the garlic and holy water!!


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## cutz

pustanio said:


> I am a very busy company director, but have an interest in trading futures.




Hi pustanio,

I haven't got any personal experience on dodgy courses but in my most humble opinion you're pissing into the wind.

If you can't dedicate at least 4-6 hours per day, do a solo apprenticeship, ditch your commitment to directorship, you're destined to fail attempting to trade futures no matter how much you pay for any so called courses, most successful traders start at a young age and learn via real experience, simulators don't cut it, the real test is how you handle real cash.

On the other hand if you can afford to blow whatever it costs go ahead.


Adios.


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## trainspotter

pustanio said:


> thanks, I will check out that site.
> 
> BTW if I could go back and edit the post with reference to the company names I would..
> 
> But cant find an edit function on the posts.




The edit function has a time out limit so that refractory rapscallions who make inane posts can be flamed for months to come. 

If you have the propensity to resemble a "chip" around here, then the fellow ASFers surely do a fantastic impersonation of "seagulls" .... to put it mildly.

I believe you have received our thoughts on the matter loud and clear on the aforementioned companies that originally caught your eye for trading matters.

But thank you for placing the carcass on the table for all of us to feast on.


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## Broadway

If these rooms had something that worked, you would have heard about it, and everybody would be doing it at any cost, kind of like viagra.


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## wayneL

trainspotter said:


> If you have the propensity to resemble a "chip" around here, then the fellow ASFers surely do a fantastic impersonation of "seagulls" .... to put it mildly.




ROTFL.

Brilliant imagery.


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## J.Baker

I didnt read all the post, so I don't know where the convo is at. But for the record I'm trading eminis with traders int and making money... Its takes time to get into it tho... They say 6months but I'd alow upward of a year ( depending on how diligent you are i guess )..... Im trading one contract and on average take $250us per week.. But thats all I need, because eventually as my tradin acct does up, I can compound that 1 in 2 contract and make 500, two into three and make 750 etc etc... Really, the only hard part about it for me is the whole "mind set thing" everything else is easy.. If you take all their signals, you will definatly be in the money... But, 7500 sign up fee plus 299per mth is a little steep I must admit.. A plus is they are opening an forex room in about a months time which will be included in the sign up and monthly fee I think... PM me if you have any Q's...


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## MRC & Co

250 a week on a 1 lot is hardly an edge.  That could turn on it's head very very quickly.  

I'm still to hear of or meet anyone genuine who has made more than the costs out of these type of things.

Would be more than happy to be prooven otherwise, even by the guys who created it themselves.


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## nunthewiser

J.Baker said:


> I didnt read all the post, so I don't know where the convo is at. But for the record I'm trading eminis with traders int and making money... Its takes time to get into it tho... They say 6months but I'd alow upward of a year ( depending on how diligent you are i guess )..... Im trading one contract and on average take $250us per week.. But thats all I need, because eventually as my tradin acct does up, I can compound that 1 in 2 contract and make 500, two into three and make 750 etc etc... Really, the only hard part about it for me is the whole "mind set thing" everything else is easy.. If you take all their signals, you will definatly be in the money... But, 7500 sign up fee plus 299per mth is a little steep I must admit.. A plus is they are opening an forex room in about a months time which will be included in the sign up and monthly fee I think... PM me if you have any Q's...




excuse me ??? 

not 2 posts ago on other threads you are asking newbie questions regarding basic stuff of which I REPLIED too 

something suss around here champ , if i could be stuffed i would post your previous posts , but i will just say to any reading this to do a SEARCH on previous posts instead 

avaniceday


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## trainspotter

pustanio said:


> ok trainspotter, get your point.
> 
> The way I was looking at this venture really was like managed funds, only in futures market.
> 
> Anyway, not a single go for it from the people that replied, so looks like its not really as good as it may sound.




If it is too good to be true then ........ it probably is ! Sort of like the Nigerian Banking email scam that was quite popular a while back and the "greedy/innocent" victims of this invidious crime called "Advanced Fee Fraud" sold their souls for the reward of promised millions on return of your bank account details. The best part was watching them on ACA and Today Tonight and other worthy journalistic programs as they cried over how they gave 200k into an undisclosed bank account of unsavoury origins. *mental note to self ... find these people before the Nigerians do* as they poured the crocodile tears for all and sundry to witness their folly. Ohhhh ... the horror !

The words written in response to your original neophytic post are like pearls of wisdom that will leave you truly without doubt as to what the quorum are thinking and or writing. And as they are very practiced and learned is such ways of explicating their pansophic opines it would appear that it would be wise to reconsider your obtuse rationale. (in light of the reaction)

Please be more practiced when it comes to providing us with so much glee to feast upon as it would be advisable to be very wary of the mood of the assembled masses when it arrives at this pinnacle of obfuscation.

I empathise with you that it is not easy being a high powered executive with cash to burn but may I suggest that you take an easier path to enlightenment such as requesting the company of fellow like minded, inner circle associates, good corporate citizens in the same position as yourself who have broken out and paved the way to the Nirvana you are currently seeking. (so much easier talking to someone on the same level)

Once again I wish you the best in your endeavours and would like to take the opportunity of apologising enmasse if you are the genuine article looking for some guidance. (I believe you have received the info) If on the other hand you are trying to publicise the aforementioned schemes (very crudely I must say) then I hope your balls get itchy and your fingernails turn into fish hooks. 

And a very BIG bit of man loving goes out to the NUN on his exemplary bit of investigative piece of diligence on the fictitious poster. Amen.


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## lindsayf

Broadway said:


> If these rooms had something that worked, you would have heard about it, and everybody would be doing it at any cost, kind of like viagra.





so you like viagra hey?


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## Cartman

trainspotter said:


> invidious
> neophytic post
> quorum are thinking
> explicating their pansophic opines
> obtuse rationale
> pinnacle of obfuscation.




geez Trainer, --- i was starting to get confused having to look up my funk and wagnel so often, ---  when ----



trainspotter said:


> I hope your balls get itchy and your fingernails turn into fish hooks.




i finally understood what u were saying !! : lol ---


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## CanOz

There is another option

http://www.indextrader.com.au 

I'm in the exact same boat as you pustanio, the day job just got a lot busier. If i am to balance work and life, i need to outsource my trading, not just the research anymore.

With Brent's system, i will receive the signal by email, put in a mail forward rule to my full service broker ($ouch i know$), and expect to have the orders executed by them. 

Totally mechanical system, tested, and traded by Brent, trading many index futures, Asian, Eurpean, US.

Hands off trading.....but.....

You have got to be able to stomach the drawdowns.

Good luck.



CanOz


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## Julia

What a bunch of untrusting cynics you all are.

I'd not hesitate to part  with  $8000  in this instance, because I absolutely believe everyone who advertises they will make you instantly rich really means it and moreover has a foolproof plan that will ensure this.

By the time I have sent off similar amounts to all the spruikers on the web, I will be able to sit back and watch the riches roll in.  Nothing to it.


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## nunthewiser

trainspotter said:


> And a very BIG bit of man loving goes out to the NUN on his exemplary bit of investigative piece of diligence on the fictitious poster. Amen.




im not that kinds nun


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## nunthewiser

Julia said:


> By the time I have sent off similar amounts to all the spruikers on the web, I will be able to sit back and watch the riches roll in.  Nothing to it.




i am this kinda nun tho 

i,ll give you a magic bean for 4k and you,ll make twice as much


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## sails

Julia said:


> What a bunch of untrusting cynics you all are.
> 
> I'd not hesitate to part  with  $8000  in this instance, because I absolutely believe everyone who advertises they will make you instantly rich really means it and moreover has a foolproof plan that will ensure this.
> 
> By the time I have sent off similar amounts to all the spruikers on the web, I will be able to sit back and watch the riches roll in.  Nothing to it.




Oh Julia - I nearly choked on my coffee... 

And don't forget about mortgaging the house so you can get richer still...  And then try to get some OPM (other people's money - eg relatives, close friends )

Sadly, this is what some of the spruikers have recommended in the past - I know from experience.  Not that we took up the recommendations, but I am now a confirmed untrusting cynic...


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## MACD

Hi All,

Here are my thoughts on this topic.

I tried Planet Wealth for a couple of days.  IMO this is not an option as the commission rates are $72 / contract for a round trip.  The usual price is $4 to $5 per round trip.  This is expensive as they use an auto trader feature which allows them (PW) to buy and sell on your account.  You will not learn a thing by doing this.  You need to trade yourself and take responsibility for your own actions.

There is also no guarantee with these guys.  The last trade they did on Friday went against them and the members lost $1000 plus $144 brokerage.

There is no guarantee trading at all, however if you want to succeed and live to tell a tale then you need to learn to fish and survive.  You will not make it if you continue to wait for people to put fish on your plate for you.  

I joined Traders International for exactly the same reasons as most people do.  Great marketing, good manufactured results and supposedly easy money and instant wealth!  What a surprise I got.  I spent over $10k for the dream and ended up making a large loss by following the "expert professional trader", who actually doesn't trade a real account but only trades in simulation.  What a joke!  After a while, I realised that this was not working, so I turned TI off, and started learning to trade for myself.

I'm now trading the S&P and Dow Jones, using my own charts, signals and methods and am making money.  It just takes a lot of time, patience and effort.  If you are not prepared to put in the time, effort and patience, then trading is not for you.  Rather put your money into a managed fund and forget about it!

You do not need to spend hundreds and thousands of $$$'s of websites, trading rooms, magic secret systems etc.  There is a ton of good free stuff on the internet.  Spend a bit of timje doing your research - and you will be rewarded.

Happy trading


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## overit

MACD said:


> Here are my thoughts on this topic.




Good post.  Everyone should read that.


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## trainspotter

*tear comes to my eye* Congratulations to you MACD:- this is the best first post I have ever read. Sound in it's logic, truthful beyond reproach, succinct and concise, measured with detail and completely unbiased in every way. Absolutely fantastic.


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## pustanio

MACD said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Here are my thoughts on this topic.
> 
> I tried Planet Wealth for a couple of days.  IMO this is not an option as the commission rates are $72 / contract for a round trip.  The usual price is $4 to $5 per round trip.  This is expensive as they use an auto trader feature which allows them (PW) to buy and sell on your account.  You will not learn a thing by doing this.  You need to trade yourself and take responsibility for your own actions.




Thats exactly what I was looking for, someone that has actually tried it.

I knew their brokerage rates were way high, but I figured I could live with that for the autotrade feature.

Granted you dont learn anything using it, but had hoped that I would be infront rather than behind at the end of the month.


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## keatir

I also have just seen the lifestyle trader video, watched it on the weekend. I have been hunting through the old threads looking for opionions regarding that system. All I could find was some stuff from a few years back which called it a scam.

If it was so good you would think people would come here to share their experiences. Problem is that if anyone did they would be shotdown as someone trying to promote the service.

I really wish ASIC would test the system and put out there results. That is about the only review I would believe. 

I like the simplicity of the system but as you guys say there are cheaper ways to get that data. 

I guess if I want to trade it is going to be a long hard slog and I need to learn the stuff myself. The problem is that there is so much out there and knowing what is crap or not makes me want to just give up before I really get started.


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## J.Baker

nunthewiser said:


> excuse me ???
> 
> not 2 posts ago on other threads you are asking newbie questions regarding basic stuff of which I REPLIED too
> 
> something suss around here champ , if i could be stuffed i would post your previous posts , but i will just say to any reading this to do a SEARCH on previous posts instead
> 
> avaniceday




Perhaps you have not read my post correctly CHAMP... I've been trading futures for over a year. I was simply asking in other post a few extra things I may be able to try... Dont you dare slander my name without fact.


----------



## J.Baker

MRC & Co said:


> 250 a week on a 1 lot is hardly an edge.  That could turn on it's head very very quickly.
> 
> I'm still to hear of or meet anyone genuine who has made more than the costs out of these type of things.
> 
> Would be more than happy to be prooven otherwise, even by the guys who created it themselves.




Your Right, It can turn fast. But I put stop loses in place so If I have a bad day, or week I'm not risking my acct. The most I alow myself to lose in a week is only what I'm making per week, 250. Its up to you what you belive or what you may think from other peoples post etc. But you will never know fully untill you try it yourself..


----------



## mazzatelli

J.Baker said:


> Your Right, It can turn fast. But I put stop loses in place so If I have a bad day, or week I'm not risking my acct. The most I alow myself to lose in a week is only what I'm making per week, 250. Its up to you what you belive or what you may think from other peoples post etc. But you will never know fully untill you try it yourself..




He doesn't need to. He is a professional futures trader at a prop firm. 

If I am not mistaken TI advocates R:R of 1:1 on their futures scalps and have a lot of faith in the indicator interpretation. Not saying you cannot make money, but there are better ways to trade than that.


----------



## J.Baker

mazzatelli said:


> He doesn't need to. He is a professional futures trader at prop firm.
> 
> If I am not mistaken TI advocates R:R of 1:1 on their futures scalps and have a lot of faith in the indicator interpretation. Not saying you cannot make money, but much better ways to trade than that.




Ok, I didn't know that obviously.. with TI my RR is 3:1 and my stops are less than my takings 2:1... So your right, Im not making loads of money, but I am happy with where I am and the level of service / help they provide. I only trade an hour per day, 4 days per week so to me 250pw with the future potential of maybe 2,000 ( long time away ) Im more than pleased.


----------



## nunthewiser

J.Baker said:


> Perhaps you have not read my post correctly CHAMP... I've been trading futures for over a year. I was simply asking in other post a few extra things I may be able to try... Dont you dare slander my name without fact.





yawn..................

i read your posts , i commented on your posts , this is a public forum , i posted what i thought .......... 

p.s please keep your abuse in the private messaging sytem to a minimum as im getting bored with jokers calling me names via the private message thingo 

kinda childish really but hey i understand your frustrations darl

avaniceday


----------



## mazzatelli

J.Baker said:


> Ok, I didn't know that obviously.. with TI my RR is 3:1 and my stops are less than my takings 2:1... So your right, Im not making loads of money, but I am happy with where I am and the level of service / help they provide. I only trade an hour per day, 4 days per week so to me 250pw with the future potential of maybe 2,000 ( long time away ) Im more than pleased.




I think the most valid question MRC asked was whether costs can be recovered, not whether you can make money on an individual trade basis.

Trading is a business so if I remember right the TI course is ~ $8k. On top of that they make you pay monthly subscription fees for their trading room, not to mention monthly fees for the futures trading platform and roundtrip commissions per trade. I just swung by the website and it looks like they advocate eSignal which is also pricey. 

Will the 250pw you make ever have a chance to recover the intial capital outlay as well as pay for the subscription to the trading rooms?

There is a chance you will increase profitablility, but it is also equally likely you can experience drawdown. 

I am not suggesting you are a spammer, but this is possibly the service you are dealing with. I knew people who joined this service and complained about the same things.

Forum complaints

But good to see you exploring further outside of TI [I suggest a look at the "Nothing to something scalping" thread].


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## mazzatelli

nunthewiser said:


> yawn..................
> 
> i read your posts , i commented on your posts , this is a public forum , i posted what i thought ..........
> 
> p.s please keep your abuse in the private messaging sytem to a minimum as im getting bored with jokers calling me names via the private message thingo
> 
> kinda childish really but hey i understand your frustrations darl
> 
> avaniceday




LOL
Then I'll call you names in the public forum!!!
CLOWN!!!
Joking


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## nunthewiser

mazzatelli said:


> LOL
> Then I'll call you names in the public forum!!!
> CLOWN!!!
> Joking




thats much better


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## J.Baker

nunthewiser said:


> yawn..................
> 
> i read your posts , i commented on your posts , this is a public forum , i posted what i thought ..........
> 
> p.s please keep your abuse in the private messaging sytem to a minimum as im getting bored with jokers calling me names via the private message thingo
> 
> kinda childish really but hey i understand your frustrations darl
> 
> avaniceday




Lol ease up on the abuse comment.. I simply said I disagree with your comment without raising the issue on a public forum because people are not here to listen to arguments, they are here for help, and advice etc... I'm more than happy to post exactally what I wrote to you on this page .... I said your a jerk and you may just think your superior or just be a dick. I think you may be blowing things out of context..... From what I gather, people are on this forum to learn and grab advice. I think if anything it is you who is being childish by causing such an argument. And going by what you said about being sick of people calling you names, perhaps thats a good indication that it is you who is causing conflict? 

I could not care less what you think of my post or your assumption as to where I'm at with my trading. And I do not think it is appropriate for you to post such a reply based on that. For my, or anyones post reguardless of who they are and what they think.. But your right, you are entilied to your opinion, but a certain level of respect should be included. You must not have any.


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## J.Baker

mazzatelli said:


> I think the most valid question MRC asked was whether costs can be recovered, not whether you can make money on an individual trade basis.
> 
> Trading is a business so if I remember right the TI course is ~ $8k. On top of that they make you pay monthly subscription fees for their trading room, not to mention monthly fees for the futures trading platform and roundtrip commissions per trade. I just swung by the website and it looks like they advocate eSignal which is also pricey.
> 
> Will the 250pw you make ever have a chance to recover the intial capital outlay as well as pay for the subscription to the trading rooms?
> 
> There is a chance you will increase profitablility, but it is also equally likely you can experience drawdown.
> 
> I am not suggesting you are a spammer, but this is possibly the service you are dealing with.
> 
> Forum complaints
> 
> But good to see you exploring further outside of TI.




I dont use esignal for that reason, I have ninja trader and use their charts + the charts displayed in the room.. Subscription was not 8k, from memory is was 6. Monthly fee is $200 and round trip is 4.80 from my broker... I get nonthing from commenting on TI so this is NOT spam... I have a day job. I do not need to be busting my nut to make money on futures just yet. I am happy where I am, Im making good money for the time I am spending trading and I am learning A LOT.... Im sure you guys are smart enough to know big money is not maid right off the bat. But hey, lets pick on the new guy... Anyone else wanna line up?


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## mazzatelli

J.Baker said:


> I dont use esignal for that reason, I have ninja trader and use their charts + the charts displayed in the room.. Subscription was not 8k, from memory is was 6. Monthly fee is $200 and round trip is 4.80 from my broker... I get nonthing from commenting on TI so this is NOT spam... I have a day job. I do not need to be busting my nut to make money on futures just yet. I am happy where I am, Im making good money for the time I am spending trading and I am learning A LOT.... Im sure you guys are smart enough to know big money is not maid right off the bat. But hey, lets pick on the new guy... Anyone else wanna line up?




I'm not picking on you and explicitly stated that I didn't think you a spammer.

I am trying to point out that you could be standing in a pile of sh*t without realising it. Whether you consider the arguments is up to you. 

Especially because money is not made off the bat, people here are advising to stay away from expensive trading courses when similar material can be obtained for much less money. That is not to suggest the trading courses do not work, but if you could get it for $100, why would you pay $6k.


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## J.Baker

mazzatelli said:


> I'm not picking on you and explicitly stated that I didn't think you a spammer.
> 
> I am trying to point out that you could be standing in a pile of sh*t without realising it. Whether you consider the arguments is up to you.
> 
> Especially because money is not made off the bat, people here are advising to stay away from expensive trading courses when similar material can be obtained for much less money. That is not to suggest the trading courses do not work, but if you could get it for $100, why would you pay $6k.




Ok, NP... Just relating to a few of the above comments by one member... I don't agree that is crap at this point ( Ti ) but Yes, there is a chance it may be and thats the risk I took. Didnt feel confident in taking on trading on my own because I don't have the knowledge. Eventually I will find something that works for me, it may not be futures with Ti but at this point I am confident its going to be a good thing for me and if anyone else was to ask I would certainly recommend them.


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## trainspotter

J. Baker wrote _"Im sure you guys are smart enough to know big money is not maid right off the bat. But hey, lets pick on the new guy... Anyone else wanna line up?"_

Another classic example of the "chip" and the "seagull" syndrome.

Aaaark , Aaaark, Squawk.


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## mazzatelli

trainspotter said:


> J. Baker wrote _"Im sure you guys are smart enough to know big money is not maid right off the bat. But hey, lets pick on the new guy... Anyone else wanna line up?"_
> 
> Another classic example of the "chip" and the "seagull" syndrome.
> 
> Aaaark , Aaaark, Squawk.




More like harpies than seagulls.
Ferocious lot


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## nunthewiser

J.Baker said:


> I could not care less what you think of my post or your assumption as to where I'm at with my trading. And I do not think it is appropriate for you to post such a reply based on that. For my, or anyones post reguardless of who they are and what they think.. But your right, you are entilied to your opinion, but a certain level of respect should be included. You must not have any.




Ah...........

young master baKer

i do apologise for my tardy reply but ive been on a missionary position down in drizzly perth for   a cupla days 

ok where was i ? .... oh yeah ........ yes you are right , i am entitled to my opinion .......... BUT i would like to apologise if i came across as harsh , i can be a wan ker on occasion and have been known to jump on posters on occasion before actually taking into consideration that MAYBE they wasnt really full of crap after all ................ my bad ........... im a bad nun ...........

IF you are a sincere and genuine poster i sincerely apologise . if your not well read this how you wish 

so  masterbaKer you have a great day and hope you make a megazillion bucks on your magic sytem investment

your sincerely 

a.nun


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## moXJO

J.Baker said:


> Ok, NP... Just relating to a few of the above comments by one member... I don't agree that is crap at this point ( Ti ) but Yes, there is a chance it may be and thats the risk I took. Didnt feel confident in taking on trading on my own because I don't have the knowledge. Eventually I will find something that works for me, it may not be futures with Ti but at this point I am confident its going to be a good thing for me and if anyone else was to ask I would certainly recommend them.




Here is a thread that talks a bit about the system. I have heard a lot of bad stuff about TI system for the price you have to pay.


http://forum.incrediblecharts.com/messages/12/1098376.html


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## cornnfedd

Thought I would share my experiences with 21st Century, Jamie McIntire, Aussie Rob, the 'inner circle, playground contructions and all that JAZZ!!

1. The reason why you dont see more comments about these guys on the net (positive or negative) I believe is because by the time people are 'brain washed' into using their system they are also told that if it doesnt work its probably their own fault - "come on, we have 1000's of members making heaps of money, here is Jane, she made $250k in the last 12 months, she came to our conference in Fiji and just couldnt wait to tell us how successfull she has been, retirement by 35? its easy" , but the reality is that many people just hang on, hoping that the system will start making money, hoping that if they go to ONE MORE conference, and pay some MORE fees they will start to make the big $$. People do not post on here because they probably feel ashamed, the TIME they have wasted and the DOUGH they have wasted.

2. I have been to many a seminar with these guys, I have even paid and been to the 3 day property one, funnily enough if you remove all the 'Hard Selling' at the end of it, its almost worth the $3.5k or whatever it was (only just mind you), I was a total green investor in regards to realestate so it was quite usefull the stuff I did learn and it helped me get my mind around using realestate as an investment yadda yadda, would I do the course again looking back? Yes BUT would I ever invest my money with these guys, would I buy property of them? Hell NO!!

3. Trading systems like the one Aussie Rob pushes - your a director of a company, and albeit sound a successful one. The only thing I would say is you should never trust a 'black box' trading system like this, they dictate (with the information they provide) what and when you buy, this is dangerous in my mind. You have no idea where the data is coming from that gives you the indications to buy and sell. I prefer to be in more control of my investments and where I put my money. I know several people that have been using this system for longer then 12 months and they have still not made any money - they still have made enough money to pay for their 'education' ok ok SOME people make money, but the majority dont.

3. If you are wanting to throwing away $8k why dont you just get a commsec account and invest in blue chip shares? doesnt sound like you really want a  high return, so why bother trying to make money using these schemes? yes they are schemes.  

4. You say you are short on time - well these systems take time to learn, I would say that is time you dont have to waste, so again i would suggest managed funds or blue chip for you. If your not even going to spend the time to learn these trading scams then you might as well throw your money away.

5. Put it on RED - you have a 50/50 chance of winning.

6. If it sounds too good to be true it probably is.

7. If the system they are selling is really that successfull why would they sell to you? If I had a system that successful I would use it myself!


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## kam75

cornnfedd said:


> Thought I would share my experiences with 21st Century, Jamie McIntire, Aussie Rob, the 'inner circle, playground contructions and all that JAZZ!!!




A lot of the companies are scammers that work together and cross market their products to capture a larger sample of gullible dummies. They're everywhere and there's not a lot that can be done to stop them.  They get the suckers with their articulate selling techniques.  And they're very good at it.


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## muzzamcc

Hi forum members.

I'm seriously considering joining yourtradingroom.com. Just wondering if anyone has any experience with them. I've sat in on their live trading room for several weeks on end now (uni student) and to me it all seems legit and very promising. However I am very catious about signing up ($4900) and would like to hear how others have gone.

Regards, Murray.


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## Ruby

muzzamcc said:


> Hi forum members.
> 
> I'm seriously considering joining yourtradingroom.com. Just wondering if anyone has any experience with them. I've sat in on their live trading room for several weeks on end now (uni student) and to me it all seems legit and very promising. However I am very catious about signing up ($4900) and would like to hear how others have gone.
> 
> Regards, Murray.




Before signing up with them and parting with any money, ask them for 6 months worth of trading results.   You will notice they don't publish them.  They used to until about 6 months ago, but they had several months of losses in a row, so I guess that is why they pulled them off their website!!  If they are doing well and are profitable they will be happy to provide them.

I have also had a couple of free trials and was very underimpressed both with their moderators and their strategies.  They bombard me with emails a couple of times a week to attend webinars which "are so popular we may have to start charging for them".........yeah, right!

Oh yes......... and if their moderators tell you they are live trading while they are moderating the room........ don't believe it.   They are sim trading.  If they were making all the money they say they are the would not be moderating a trading room.


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## CanOz

Ruby, i like your style man!

CanOz


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## muzzamcc

Thanks Ruby. 

Just read your post today as I forgot to check back for a reply. I did manage to get all the trade results I wanted from them and yes they did have a period of poor results for the trading room, however their swing trading strategy has gone well and the live room has now picked up again. It just took a bit of prodding to get the results. Which of the moderators did you find unimpressive? I found them all pretty good, just impatient sometimes with guests and their very basic questions. 
I did take a few screenshots of one of the moderators trading account statements that he showed in the room which looked very genuine to me. Anyway I think I'll sign up this coming week. I'll post how I go with them if I do join up, just so people who try to research them a bit on the net have a bit more info to go on. I struggled to find much in my searches.

Murray


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## Ruby

Pleasure Muzzamcc.

If you have done the homework and you're happy, that is all that matters.  It is quite a while since I had my trial and they have no doubt improved their strategies since then - which is all to their credit.   I might have struck them on a couple of bad days.

Thanks for the feedback.  It's helpful to everyone looking for this sort of info.

Best of luck.

Ruby


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## muzzamcc

Hi,

Just an update for those that are interested in your trading room or people who may be googling them looking for information on the group apart from the standard testimonials on their website. I became a member on the 5th May for the sum of $4990 including 12 months live rooms access and lifetime access to their indicators, education etc. After 12 months the rooms are $395/month. I have been taking all the moderators trade calls when I am in the forex room and from the 7th May to 14th May the result was $1300 gained from a base of $17,000. As you can imagine I was very happy with that! The last day and a half has seen it go down so I am now up $600 as i type, but today has been a pretty bad day for results, all losing trades today so far. I would have made another $200 last night but couldn't login to my broker on time, very angry with that at the time, and I am in the process of changing brokers.

Anyway I just wanted to get some more information on the net about these guys as I really struggled to find much in the way of information apart from their website when I was deciding whether to join up or not. I am glad I joined and if anyone wants to quiz me about these guys if you are interested in them I have set up my aussie stock forums account to monitor this thread. Hopefully it works. 

Cheers Murray.


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## waza1960

Firstly I have never even visited a trading room however thought it might be beneficial if I shared a view from somebody who used to work for trading rooms as a signal /systems developer whom I respect as a trader.
       His view is that Trading rooms are a good starting point to assist in your development as a trader if you are happy with the costs .
   However the drawbacks are that systems that are designed for Trading rooms generally are not the best systems because they are designed to be trading with a high frequency to keep the punters interested.
Of course there are the other concerns such as promises of unrealistic returns
 BS marketing and possible Simulation trading masked as live trading .
  Personally I'm not interested in this approach because I can't stand BS and excess marketing tactics. I've already had enough of this in my trading journey to last a life time.


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## Ruby

Muzzamcc,

Thank you for sharing your early trading results with YTR.  It would be good to hear from you again in about a month, to see how it is going then.  My only experience of trading rooms has been free trials with a couple of them, so to get some "true" results will be very enlightening for people considering this avenue.

Regards,

Ruby


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## aaron76

*Re: Eminis... which broker?*

Hi all,

I hope this helps....

David Loughnan is one of Australia's top Eminis traders.

He has a live trading room where you simply follow his trades.


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## professor_frink

*Re: Eminis... which broker?*



aaron76 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I hope this helps....
> 
> David Loughnan is one of Australia's top Eminis traders.
> 
> He has a live trading room where you simply follow his trades.




hmmm....

http://www.ozripoff.com/report-view/1209-21st-century-eminis-scam



> I start my live trades and soon after start to see that the moderator Mr David Loughnan wasn't a such successful trader as he claimed to be as he would make a loss trade after a loss trade..............






> If your have had any bad experiences, please contact me as you would be helping me to build up a case to take them to court.
> 
> Thanks for the opportunity and a word of advice, KEEP YOURSELF AWAY FROM ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE NAME JAMIE McINTYRE AND 21ST CENTURY ACADEMY, EMINIS.


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## FIGJAM

Holy thread revival!!

Sorry but i just read this thread and have a couple things to say. Before we go on, no I am not apart of 21st Century, E-minis, yadda yadda, I am a shopfitter who works for my family and happened to spend my 5grand to learn to share rent with Share Lord who work with 21st.

Whilst I agree that I could have gone to the library, hired a couple of books, read them and begun trading for cheaper then $5000.00, I would not have the same level of confidence as I do with Sharelord. Ill be frank, I know sweet F all when it comes to investing. So I spent my money to learn and have the opportunity to ask questions.

Not once did i get the feel that this was a get rich quick scheme of any kind. Only that they teach a proven strategy that is easy and simple to follow and implement.

Some of you have said, if the strategies are so good blah blah then why do they teach them? why not keep them for themselves? Answer is simple, they are out to make money. Supply and demand, if you want to learn to play the guitar do you not go and get lessons? Why are the so called books that you read published? At the end of the day they all make money.

Saying that everyone you have ever met that paid the price with 21st have failed is a rather harsh generalisation, because I met some people last year who paid for the home study and swear by it. Again, not everyone will succeed no matter how much you hold there hand. I am sure we all know people who have tried to start there own business, invest in property, hell even learn the guitar who have failed.

All I am hoping to get from my 5grand, is 5 back, if i learn the strategy and can walk away after 12months 24months whatever and implement it on my own. Then that $5000.00 fee was a smart investment in my eyes.

That's my 2cents anyway.

Ps. I realise that this is my first post and that you probably think I am a troll and what not, goodo for you, you would be wrong. If you want to check that then a mod can feel free to contact me.

Cheers,


----------



## Vicki

Hello FIGJAM,
I remember a guy who had those plates FIGJAM lol.

Hey, please save your money, & have a read of an epic thread [Bill stacy?] on page 4 in this area.

An ex.PLANET WEALTH associate Bill Stacy, made the mistake of trying to argue with experienced forum members invane...he came off second best.
Let it serve as a prime example of why you should be cautious of these opperators.
Andrew Dimitri, Bill Stacy & Jamie Macintyre.

Planet wealth, is still charging big bucks for subscriptions, for info that is common knowledge on this great forum[ASF], with genuine people, with real experience, FREE!

How does Planet Wealth do this?
Simple....A continuous conveyor-belt of newbs, who pay-up...Then have no real objective say, or opinion that is allowed or isn't removed!

They [newbs] do the usual "Oh well, this was a mistake!" routine, and are never heard from again....Bet you none of their members have been there more than a couple of months!

In one of the above mentioned posts, was reference to Aaron76.

I wonder if this was the same Aaron who blew 80k in one month! using one of Andrew Dimitri's 'Volitilty advantage' Strategies.

Aaron was an example I tried in vane to pass on to new members, to be cautious, back in 07.
Before I was chastised & locked-out for doing so!

FIGJAM, and anybody else reading this, please be careful with these opperators!

They're the "SHAM-WOW" sales-men of the wealth education industry.
If you've made it to this forum...well breathe a sigh of relief, as you're amongst friends, most of which know a lot more than these scamsters, and will give them the red card, if they come on here, & try and mis-lead you.

All the best,
                Vicki
p.s. to Andrew , Bill & Jamie.....Veritas Aequitas!


----------



## sammy84

Just listened to the free 21st Century E-minis dvd for a laugh. And it was. A great big laugh.

My favourite part was when David Loughnan said he was feeling down so he went out and bought a new $200k car. Also that he plans to turn a $50K account into $1mil by years end (he was very confident that he would achieve this).

What a scam. The whole session focuses on telling the audience on what people have made, what he has made etc. No mention of risk management, entry, market conditions etc.

I wish I had it in me to be a conman, such easy money.


----------



## muzzamcc

muzzamcc said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just an update for those that are interested in your trading room or people who may be googling them looking for information on the group apart from the standard testimonials on their website. I became a member on the 5th May for the sum of $4990 including 12 months live rooms access and lifetime access to their indicators, education etc. After 12 months the rooms are $395/month. I have been taking all the moderators trade calls when I am in the forex room and from the 7th May to 14th May the result was $1300 gained from a base of $17,000. As you can imagine I was very happy with that! The last day and a half has seen it go down so I am now up $600 as i type, but today has been a pretty bad day for results, all losing trades today so far. I would have made another $200 last night but couldn't login to my broker on time, very angry with that at the time, and I am in the process of changing brokers.
> 
> Anyway I just wanted to get some more information on the net about these guys as I really struggled to find much in the way of information apart from their website when I was deciding whether to join up or not. I am glad I joined and if anyone wants to quiz me about these guys if you are interested in them I have set up my aussie stock forums account to monitor this thread. Hopefully it works.
> 
> Cheers Murray.




Belated update on my experience with Yourtradingroom (not that it really matters now they are out of business). They did get me interested in trading forex and as I was able to ask alot of questions in the online forex room of their moderators and other members, I learnt alot in a short time. But did they make me trade profitably based on their own systems or trades, the answer is no. As I'm very much into forex a few years down the track i am reasonably profitable, but it is by no means easy and not due to YTR. So be very skeptical of any seminar spruikers or online trading rooms/financial courses and get as much proof of profitability as possible before giving any money over. The vast majority are just rubbish unfortunately. It's a long hard road to be a trader, and certainly not for everyone.


----------



## CanOz

I've got a free trial for Joel Parkers room soon. Looking forward to it actually as i've heard good things about it...

He's a volume guys so it should be worth my while.


----------

