# USA



## MrBurns (9 August 2009)

As we rely on and follow the US in almost everything we do so a thread on them might be worthwhile,

Just watching Michael Moore's doco called Sicko - about the US health system.
The place is rooted, corruption in politics all the way to the top, health system run by the insurance companies who pay people to find ways to deny payment to insured people. One guy lost the top off two fingers and was given a choice, replace the top of the index finger $24,000 or the ring finger $12000, he chose the ring finger, another denied a bone marrow transplant because they said it was experimental, he died.

Get this and watch it it's scary, especially as I'm off the Hawaii on Friday, I'm going to check tomorrow just how well my insurance covers me.

I know Moore exaggerates but if even part of this is true it is serious stuff and will change my attitude to the land of Mickey Mouse.

So just how stuffed is the USA ? because if they go down we go with them.


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## Monario (9 August 2009)

The world is that interweaved now that if the USA goes down not only us but the whole world would be effected, it about time we made strong moves towards one world economy I think, many people on here will not agree with this statement!!!!

Let the FALLOUT begin!!!


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## MrBurns (9 August 2009)

Monario said:


> The world is that interweaved now that if the USA goes down not only us but the whole world would be effected, it about time we made strong moves towards one world economy I think, many people on here will not agree with this statement!!!!
> 
> Let the FALLOUT begin!!!




People really should watch this, a big wake up call.


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## So_Cynical (9 August 2009)

MrBurns said:


> I'm off the Hawaii on Friday, I'm going to check tomorrow just how well my insurance covers me.




Travel insurance is always more expensive if your traveling to the US...i imagine there expensive health system has much to do with that.

Saw something on the SBS news the other nite about Obamas proposed health reforms, Obamas mob were having like town hall meetings all over the US, pitching a type of national health care...and was strange to see such anger and fear from main stream Americans, some people were really pissed off about health care for the poor.


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## knocker (9 August 2009)

So_Cynical said:


> Travel insurance is always more expensive if your traveling to the US...i imagine there expensive health system has much to do with that.
> 
> Saw something on the SBS news the other nite about Obamas proposed health reforms, Obamas mob were having like town hall meetings all over the US, pitching a type of national health care...and was strange to see such anger and fear from main stream Americans, some people were really pissed off about health care for the poor.




How can they implement such a change? The country is broke. If you want free good health come to the Uk and NHS


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## weird (9 August 2009)

Welcome to the world Mr Burns, have you looked at any other county with a microscope ... power (politics) and corruption, think both words were born at the same time. Don't think Utopia will be found in our life time, perhaps without soma in a brave new world ...

US are the current major power, and as a result are the current example of both good and bad, of its extremes.

Historically I find the term 'dark ages' interesting when a major power fell, although not sure we can compare the US or this age, to the late Rome, although I believe it will be messy indeed if the West  goes on a back foot, although think it unlikely with current developments in Europe.


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## Buckeroo (9 August 2009)

knocker said:


> How can they implement such a change? The country is broke. If you want free good health come to the Uk and NHS




Exactly, the US is acting very similar to a man who is about to go bankrupt & knows it. 

He spends excessively because there is no tomorrow. Doesn't make much difference if your bankrupt with $100 or $100,000 in debts.

Cheers


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## nunthewiser (10 August 2009)

reckons micheal moore doco,s are good value .......... watch "roger and me " next ..........eye opening and thought provoking stuff .


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## queenslander55 (10 August 2009)




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## GumbyLearner (10 August 2009)

Great thread starter Mr Burns!

You will hear from me later!

Good for you, that YOU have started a creative thread!


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## MrBurns (10 August 2009)

weird said:


> power (politics) and corruption, think both words were born at the same time. Don't think Utopia will be found in our life time, perhaps without soma in a brave new world ...
> .




There's corruption everywhere but this is so blatant it's breathtaking.

Hillary Clinton tried to reform the health care system but was overrun by the insurance companies, they called it socialized medicine to put a bad spin on it they paid out millions to finance the campaign to stop her, it worked, now she even sides with them.

The profits these companies make is obscene while millions of American have no health cover and those that do are cheated out of benefits as thats the way they do business, they actually pay people to knock back claims on the smallest detail, and this system is backed by the US Govt ?

The health care in the UK France and even Cuba is far superior to that of the US and the worry is they now probably cant afford to reform it the way it should be, that place is a real worry and we need to be more independent from them, yes we're part of Asia but I don't trust the Chinese either, so perhaps we better go back to selling boomerangs.

It's changed my view on the US to a great extent, you are judged on the way you treat your weakest and poorest people.


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## overit (10 August 2009)

One would think that the US would be better reigning in the costs of their health care than socialising their system and just shifting the burden. I found these stats. Surely this must point to huge inefficiencies and profiteering that need to reigned in first and foremost. 

......

Money Alone Does Not Extend Lives

Despite the wide gaps, higher spending on health care does not necessarily prolong lives. In 2000, theUnited States spent more on health care than any other country in the world: an average of $ 4,500 per person. Switzerland was second highest, at $3,300 or 71% of the US. Nevertheless, average US life expectancy ranks 27th in the world, at 77 years. Many countries achieve higher life expectancy rates with significantly lower spending. The chart below shows the top 30 countries in the world ranked by life expectancy. The red line indicates per-capita health expenditure (right axis), and shows that many countries outperform the US with approximately half the 








The chart (right) also highlights the sharp contrast between the US and Cuba. With a life expectancy of 76.9 years, Cuba ranks 28th in the world, just behind the US. However, its spending per person on health care is one of the lowest in the world, at $186, or about 1/25 the spending of the United States. There are other cases where high life expectancies are achieved with low spending on health care. The scattergraph (below) shows the relation between per-capita health care expenditure and average life expectancy for 2000. Countries with higher spending generally have longer life expectancy rates, but there are also many countries that perform nearly as well with much lower spending.






One reason for the discrepancy between spending and longevity is that these numbers are average life expectancies and per-capita spending rates, which mask inequalities. For example, the US Health and Human Services department found that people with lower incomes and less education tended to die younger. Life expectancy also varied by ethnicity. In 1998 life expectancy among white Americans was 76.8 years, while African Americans lived an average of 70.2 years. (See Intracountry Inequality).  Another reason some countries achieve high life expectancy with low health spending is that clean drinking water and preventive health care can be provided with little spending. If there is near universal clean water and preventive care, life expectancy rates can be high. In the US, however, nearly 40 million Americans lack basic health insurance, and are therefore less likely to receive preventive care.  In contrast, Cuba has universal health care and one of the highest doctor-to-patient ratios in the world (See Physicians).  Although Cuba has limited resources and many economic problems, it has made health care a priority. It is not alone. Sri Lanka, China and the Indian State of Kerala are considered "low-income, high well-being" countries, which have adopted policies that not only reduce inequality but also increase overall health and well-being. The results of these policy priorities are significant, and can be measured in survival indicators, such as average life expectancy.


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## MrBurns (10 August 2009)

I think most of the money they spend on heathcare actually goes into the pockets on the insurance companies.
I really dont know why the US public put up with it.


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## MrBurns (10 August 2009)

*WATCH THIS* then get the DVD - 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlDAUKSh9CQ


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## Fishbulb (10 August 2009)

Yes. Michael Moore is so insightful, honest, and reliable. And he never stretches the truth. Plus he never owned stock in Halliburton either. He's a stand up guy in fact.


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## Stan 101 (10 August 2009)

Overit, thanks. 

It's refreshing to see some substance coming back to the forum. It's been on a terrible slide for nearly 12 months.

The US are big on reactive medicine. Wait until the problem arises and then throw all the latest technology at the disease / condition along with the greatest medical staff. This drives up that price per person per annum your graphs show so clearly.

The US model are adverse to preventative medicine with fitness, healthy eating and regular checkups being the norm.

I'm just looking for the article I read this from. I was given the article from a medico at The Mater Hospital in Bris as some light reading. It didn't mention a breakdown of dollar per captita, though. Just the process of the US model. Dr Karl also recently mentioned reactive medicine on one of his shows.


Overit, with Cuba's cost base per person so low, do you see lifestyle as a factor? With the figures quoted on the graphs, I wonder if they incorporate government rebates on pharmacuticals?





cheers,


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## MrBurns (10 August 2009)

Fishbulb said:


> Yes. Michael Moore is so insightful, honest, and reliable. And he never stretches the truth. Plus he never owned stock in Halliburton either. He's a stand up guy in fact.




I cant see too many flaws in his presentation, those are real people in real situations, you cant fake that.


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## nunthewiser (10 August 2009)

what u doing still here burnsy? ........... quick go hire "roger and me " 

plenny more to add on this thread after that one


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## Stan 101 (10 August 2009)

MrBurns said:


> I think most of the money they spend on heathcare actually goes into the pockets on the insurance companies.
> I really dont know why the US public put up with it.






What sort of percentages are we talking here?


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## overit (10 August 2009)

Its been a while since I saw Michael Moores movie "sicko" but I think he touched on one of the biggest facts. A drug in the US can cost $1000 when it costs 5c to make. In other countries that drug will cost $5. I understand that the drug companies need to make $$$ to cover there research and development costs but I they take the pi$$. Also I would assume in poorer countries why would you waste resources on treating a 90year old for cancer. Western countries pull out all the stops to extend the life of someone for maybe an extra year but they are chewing up massive resources which would be better spent elsewhere. You would have to wonder how much legalised euthanasia would save.

Another good one they pull in the US is the drugs they promote for "depression". Are you feeling down, tired, having trouble sleeping... well you need xzy drug. No you dont, thats just life... it sucks deal with it. Smoke a bong or do some crack if you want some real change and its cheaper.


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## MrBurns (10 August 2009)

Stan 101 said:


> What sort of percentages are we talking here?




Dont know really but I just look at it this way  - 

If the USA is spending more on health care per head than anyone else and they are only 37th on the World Health Organisations ranking just above Slovenia the money hasn't gone to help the people the only other place it would go is in the pockets of the Insurance companies.


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## overit (10 August 2009)

Interesting fact.

........

*Almost 10 Percent of U.S. Medical Costs Tied to Obesity*

Only return to healthy behaviors will bring expenditures down, experts say 

MONDAY, July 27 (HealthDay News) -- Obesity in the United States now carries the hefty price tag of $147 billion per year in direct medical costs, just over 9 percent of all medical spending, experts report.

In fact, people who are obese spend almost $1,500 more each year on health care -- about 41 percent more than an average-weight person. Beyond those costs are the disability and early deaths caused by obesity, Dr. Thomas R. Frieden, director of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said during a press conference Monday.

"Obesity, and with it diabetes, are the only major health problems that are getting worse in this country, and they are getting worse rapidly," Frieden said. "The average American is now 23 pounds overweight."


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## Stan 101 (10 August 2009)

MrBurns said:


> the money hasn't gone to help the people the only other place it would go is in the pockets of the Insurance companies.




That's just a lazy and cynical response.

It could go to a multitude of places such as newer technology and equipment, more hospitals, equipment and beds per capita, higher wages for medicos, more admin, and as Overit mentioned, pharmacuticals. 
People could very well be sicker due to the reactive style of medicine practiced. Looks like Overit's post above details that to some extent with obesity.

Michael Moore has always made some good points but doesn't attempt a balanced view of a situation to make him truly objective.


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## overit (10 August 2009)

Interesting subject this.

*Health care in the United States From Wikipedia*


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## MrBurns (10 August 2009)

Stan 101 said:


> That's just a lazy and cynical response.
> .




I just simplified it for your benefit.


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## MrBurns (10 August 2009)

The money has gone to the pharamaceutical companies and other medical agencies who charge what they like, if the health budget goes up you can be sure so do the prices.
Profit is their main criteria, it's shameful.
ie: a drug costs $1000 in the US and $10 in Cuba for the same thing.


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## Average Joe (10 August 2009)

There an episode of The Simpsons in which Homer goes to Canada to buy cheap drugs and smugle it into the US.


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## nunthewiser (10 August 2009)

Average Joe said:


> There an episode of The Simpsons in which Homer goes to Canada to buy cheap drugs and smugle it into the US.





 well that confirms it then


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## derty (10 August 2009)

So_Cynical said:


> Saw something on the SBS news the other nite about Obamas proposed health reforms, Obamas mob were having like town hall meetings all over the US, pitching a type of national health care...and was strange to see such anger and fear from main stream Americans, some people were really pissed off about health care for the poor.




There is a drive by the Republican Party/Fox News to get people to attend these town hall meetings to voice their opposition. They are specifically sending out details of dates and times of meetings where Democrats will be speaking. On one hand the Fox pundits direct people there to protest and then claim that if the violence gets out of hand Obama would be accountable?
http://www.newshounds.us/2009/08/07...ing_viewers_to_democratic_town_halls_only.php
http://www.newshounds.us/2009/08/07..._van_susteren_ratchets_up_the_hostilities.php
http://www.newshounds.us/2009/08/08...zens_in_this_country_in_a_political_sense.php

There are people there that don't want the system fixed, people with vested interests. 

here is another small clip about US health insurance.


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## MrBurns (10 August 2009)

From Crikey - 



> The Dyer Index: US economy has no gas in the tank
> Glenn Dyer writes:
> 
> The US economy is dry, with consumer spending weak, personal income down and consumer credit still falling. Retail sales in the US have been falling now for months, personal incomes remain weak and even though the number of hours worked and the average hourly wages increased marginally in July (but still increased) American consumer remain battered and bewildered and only interested in spending on essentials.
> ...


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## satanoperca (10 August 2009)

Looked everywhere, only found one of the promised green shoots, hope it's not a weed.

Thanks Mr Burns for the article, America looks like it is in great shape, surely they can feast on more debt and grow even bigger.


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## Happy (10 August 2009)

Partially we do not compare apples and apples.

Like when we compare income in USA to say $1 a day income in not so developed country.
Until people from not so developed country want to buy something from outside they seem to be doing OK.


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## overit (10 August 2009)

The US will have plenty of money. No need to worry!



> *Geithner asks Congress for higher U.S. debt limit*
> 
> Fri Aug 7, 2009 9:43pm EDT
> 
> ...


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## MrBurns (10 August 2009)

overit said:


> The US will have plenty of money. No need to worry!




Whats the point of a debt limit if you just adjust it up every time it's reached ?
I don't know where they're headed but it looks very unpleasant.

Surely the markets over there will start to get the message soon.


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## Stan 101 (10 August 2009)

MrBurns said:


> The money has gone to the pharamaceutical companies and other medical agencies who charge what they like, if the health budget goes up you can be sure so do the prices.
> Profit is their main criteria, it's shameful.
> ie: a drug costs $1000 in the US and $10 in Cuba for the same thing.




But how can they take any profits when according to you, "the only other place it would go is in the pockets of the Insurance companies."?


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## Tradesurfer (10 August 2009)

I'm not wanting to argue for one side or the other......

One of the things that people here are concerned about or skeptical is the government running anything. Normally when the federal government is involved, there is waste, process delays, complications, fraud, and add on any number of other things. Think this quote from a message board here sums up the feelings of many.



> Please wake up!
> look at social security, the health care provided to veterans (Walter Reid)and the government's ability to manage Fannie Mae. Do you really think that the government is going to be able to manage this. Social security was once sold to the american people by saying that participants would only have to pay 1% of their first 1,400 in annual incomes, contributions would be deductible for income tax purposes, retireees would never be taxed on the benefits, and that the money would be put into a trust fund and never used for anything else. Is any of this true today?
> Of course you will pay more!




At this point 7% of salary is taken for social security from individuals and companies have to put up the other 7%. 


This bill is apparently 1000 plus pages long and there are representatives who are supporting it without reading it. In those 1000 pages are things totally unrelated to healthcare. Pork pet projects added in.

From the conversations people are just not believing the government should be driving this.


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## MrBurns (10 August 2009)

Stan 101 said:


> But how can they take any profits when according to you, "the only other place it would go is in the pockets of the Insurance companies."?




I should have been clearer I didnt *just* mean the insurance companies.

Everyone is profiting from the system at the expense of the public.

One hospital regularly ejects patients because they cant pay thir bills, old and sick people.

You know what they do ? They bundle them into a cab and send them to the welfare agencies - but before they do they cut any reference to the name of the hospital off their wrist tags.


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## Boyou (10 August 2009)

weird said:


> Welcome to the world Mr Burns, have you looked at any other county with a microscope ... power (politics) and corruption, think both words were born at the same time. Don't think Utopia will be found in our life time, perhaps without soma in a brave new world ...
> 
> US are the current major power, and as a result are the current example of both good and bad, of its extremes.
> 
> Historically I find the term 'dark ages' interesting when a major power fell, although not sure we can compare the US or this age, to the late Rome, although I believe it will be messy indeed if the West  goes on a back foot, although think it unlikely with current developments in Europe.




"Empire Of Debt" Bill Bonner and Addison Wiggins. 
Makes direct comparisons between the ancient Roman empire and Modern USA.Put simply they contend Rome collapsed because their reach exceeded their grasp ..and the same thing is happening in America
A very eye opening read ,quite satirical too


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## Gamblor (10 August 2009)

MrBurns said:


> I think most of the money they spend on heathcare actually goes into the pockets on the insurance companies.
> I really dont know why the US public put up with it.




It sure does. The insurance/drug companies have share holders, and as soon as a company has share holders the customers of that company come second - profits are king.......should we expect anything less?


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## MrBurns (10 August 2009)

Gamblor said:


> It sure does. The insurance/drug companies have share holders, and as soon as a company has share holders the customers of that company come second - profits are king.......should we expect anything less?




There a limits and their should be rules, have a look at the Sicko DVD, one insurance employee spoke at a Congressional Hearing and confessed she denied a claim for treatment that would have saved a mans life thereby killing him.

Her reward was to be advanced within the company.


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## Buckeroo (10 August 2009)

Not being nasty, but the US really deserves a crap health care system.

It wasn't long ago, their pharmaceutical companies were pressuring us not to use generics (at the time of the free trade agreement) so we could assist them in making unimaginable profits.

As well, they always seem to have enough money for cosmetic surgery but not to look after their poorer people. The rise in vanity must be putting a fair strain on things as doctors no doubt see the dollars & leave the national health system.

Now, I'm beginning to see some similarities with the Australian health system. 

Heck, we are these days as crazy as the yanks - we are now  trying to drug children just because they are being children - the new name for this is ODD (oppositional defiant disorder). This basically means a child has a problem if they show traits like arguing with adults, loses temper or deliberately annoys people.

I'd say approximately 99% of the teenagers are in this category - its time that these people who suggest these sort of things be put in a mental asylum & given a full lobotomy!!

Cheers


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## MrBurns (10 August 2009)

Buckeroo said:


> Now, I'm beginning to see some similarities with the Australian health system.




We need to be vigilant that it doesn't drift that way.


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## Trevor_S (11 August 2009)

MrBurns said:


> France




They are looking to reform their system to follow the USA

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124958049241511735.html

They have realised they can't afford universal health care.

We (Aus) have a serious issue with the health budget.  It can't be sustained without massive tax increases or massive spending cuts.  Combined with the welfare budget and we're on thin ice in my mind.  Already we have welfare consuming 50% of the income tax take, combined with health your looking at by far the biggest chunk of the budget.  Something like 80% of a persons health care costs are in the last two weeks of their life.  With an aging population, I am not sure it can be paid for under the current system.

I don't think health can be fixed.  There is no agreement on what it is people want from health care.  Most people want the highest heath care possible but want someone else to pay for it.

While you may think the American system of user pays is wrong, I think there is something to be said for it.  What is diabolical is that insurers are allowed to have an input into the health care of the individual.  They need to butt out and leave that to the Dr.

As to sensationalising health care, don't forget we have people dying in stretchers in hospital hall ways, women giving birth in hospital toilets, young women being sent home to die of swine flu etc etc  I wouldn't hold us up as a shining light of quality health care.  I suggest we need some sort of drastic change to tray and fix our broken system.



MrBurns said:


> It's changed my view on the US to a great extent, you are judged on the way you treat your weakest and poorest people.




Then we're really the low of the lowest on the planet then aren't we   We have the worst record in the World on donations to foreign aid. ie how we treat the weakest and poorest on the planet.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/...are-far-too-few/2008/12/16/1229189620447.html


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## Mr J (11 August 2009)

weird said:


> Historically I find the term 'dark ages' interesting when a major power fell, although not sure we can compare the US or this age, to the late Rome, although I believe it will be messy indeed if the West  goes on a back foot, although think it unlikely with current developments in Europe.




The "Dark Ages" is a completely inaccurate term. Civilisation did not fall apart after Rome fell, and the era was (and still is) the victim of ignorance (as are the Middle Ages in general).


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## moXJO (11 August 2009)

So much money


http://www.usdebtclock.org/


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## Trevor_S (12 August 2009)

MrBurns said:


> We need to be vigilant that it doesn't drift that way.








> But in the reform commission's nearly 300-page report lurks a grenade. Under the anodyne name Medicare Select is the seed of a plan that could end the generally unlimited access to medicine Australians enjoy.




There are a few numbers for the exploding cost of health care in that link below, quite scary numbers. Like the cost to extending the life of all cancer patients in Australia by one year (using new drugs and new technologies) would cost about $35 Billion thus the probable need to cap health care.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/health-grenade-of-capping-care-20090811-eguw.html


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## Aussiejeff (13 August 2009)

moXJO said:


> So much money
> 
> 
> http://www.usdebtclock.org/




Have you audited those figures to see if they are being fudged?  

Really, it's all Bwankers PlayDough, so who cares?


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## LeeTV (13 August 2009)

_How many Americans know what the Fed does? Willam Miller, once Fed chairman, said "23 percent of the U.S. population thought the Federal Reserve was an Indian reservation, 26 percent thought it was a wildlife preserve, and 51 percent thought it was a brand of Whiskey." _


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## MrBurns (4 September 2009)

Just got back from Hawaii, watched a bit of their political/current affairs TV shows over there, great TV .........Australian TV by comparison makes me depressed after the excellent offerings over there BUT the reason for this post is that I'm starting to think the US is just too big , vibrant and resilient to really fail any more then they already have, in the main they're smart , smart enough to avoid Armageddon.

I think the worst is over.


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## Trembling Hand (4 September 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Just got back from Hawaii, watched a bit of their political/current affairs TV shows over there, great TV .........Australian TV by comparison makes me depressed after the excellent offerings over there



 Burnsie interesting article by Pete Costello in Fairfax recently how there is 1 righty in the ABC. Its so rare that everyone knows him!! Hows that for a balanced nation broadcaster 



MrBurns said:


> the reason for this post is that I'm starting to think the US is just too big , vibrant and *resilient *to really fail any more then they already have, in the main they're smart , smart enough to avoid Armageddon.
> 
> I think the worst is over.



I'm just back as well from a look at California and the East Coast. Even dropped in to chat to a few ex ASX exec imports now back in the states licking their wounds and to see what they were planing now they were back in the states, free to do business . Yep they have taken a knock. But its very dumb to right off their entrepreneurial spirit. There is a lot of them and most have a lot of get up and go. With a culture of business achievement far above our own tall poppy farming culture. Easy to read all the doom and gloom on the net and get a false sense of what is going on.

If I had to start a biz they would still be very high on my list.


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## Mr J (4 September 2009)

MrBurns said:


> I'm starting to think the US is just too big , vibrant and resilient to really fail any more then they already have, in the main they're smart , smart enough to avoid Armageddon.




You're talking about a nation that almost launched nuclear armageddon just over 40 years ago. Don't underestimate the stupidity of those in charge. I'm not picking on Americans, as another nation is the same scenario may very well have been just as dangerous, but the fact is that they were in that scenario, and they've shown that they are dangerous.



> Australian TV by comparison




I think you could have guessed that before going to Hawaii. I mean, Home and Away? Why does it continue? Neighbours seems to have value as a launch pad for young aussie stars.


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## MrBurns (4 September 2009)

Trembling Hand said:


> Yep they have taken a knock. But its very dumb to right off their entrepreneurial spirit. There is a lot of them and most have a lot of get up and go. With a culture of business achievement far above our own tall poppy farming culture. Easy to read all the doom and gloom on the net and get a false sense of what is going on.
> 
> If I had to start a biz they would still be very high on my list.




I agree, a hell of a lot are on their knees BUT there are a hell of a lot more thinking their way to the next fortune. They have get up and go by the truckload and that will win every time. Maybe thats why they won the war.

Just goes to show you the value of a plane ticket, if you just watched the US on TV from here you wouldn't feel the vibrancy and energy.

TV ? David Koch and his like wouldn't get a job mopping the floor on mainstream US TV news shows.


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## Mr J (4 September 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Maybe thats why they won the war.




They jointly (with the Soviets) won the war, with significant help from the rest of the allies, due to their population and industrial capacity.


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## Beej (4 September 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Just got back from Hawaii, watched a bit of their political/current affairs TV shows over there, great TV .........Australian TV by comparison makes me depressed after the excellent offerings over there BUT the reason for this post is that I'm starting to think the US is just too big , vibrant and resilient to really fail any more then they already have, in the main they're smart , smart enough to avoid Armageddon.
> 
> I think the worst is over.




Mr Burns you are finally getting it!! After living in the US for a couple of years I always find that Australians tend to mis-understand and under-estimate the US business culture and their culture in general. USA us not a country to be written off lightly, despite all the obvious problems they experience from time to time.

Cheers,

Beej


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## MrBurns (4 September 2009)

Beej said:


> Mr Burns you are finally getting it!! After living in the US for a couple of years I always find that Australians tend to mis-understand and under-estimate the US business culture and their culture in general. USA us not a country to be written off lightly, despite all the obvious problems they experience from time to time.
> Cheers,
> Beej




I've often thought but never really said it out loud but I think the US population are more intelligent than we are as a whole.

They are articulate, fast and highly intelligent and we are.........well just turn on the tv.

If I move there do you think I would catch it ?


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## Buckeroo (4 September 2009)

MrBurns said:


> I've often thought but never really said it out loud but I think the US population are more intelligent than we are as a whole.
> 
> They are articulate, fast and highly intelligent and we are.........well just turn on the tv.
> 
> If I move there do you think I would catch it ?




Heck Burnsie, you ok? - for a minute there I thought you sounded Americanised!

What the hell did they do to you over there? - did they inject you with US hormones or maybe you got a good dose of water boarding?

I'm a bit worried buddy, maybe you should see a doctor!

Cheers


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## wayneL (5 September 2009)

With guys like this running the show, you'd have to wonder about how the people will invent their way out of this.

Apparently, the more debt there is, the more wealth there is.


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## GumbyLearner (5 September 2009)

I have worked with plenty of yanks for years. Some of them are the best people I have ever met in my life. Culturally they are quite different to Aussies but at the same time most of them are just as easy going as Aussies. 

The key difference that I have been able to observe is that they believe in philanthropy, which is certainly not an aussie trait. OZ is far more old school. They also stick together more than Aussies when the chips are down that's for sure.  

At the same time SOME yanks (not all) tend to know little or nothing of the culture outside of their modus operandi/ borders. I've witnessed plenty of arguments btw yanks and Canadians. But Canadians are an entirely different breed altogether. Maximum frontiersmen is their natural make-up, they don't take **** and are objective enough to look beyond their own modus operandi. They play hockey and when it's not freezing they survive! 

Most yanks I have met are great. Most Canadians I have met are greater!


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## It's Snake Pliskin (5 September 2009)

wayneL said:


> With guys like this running the show, you'd have to wonder about how the people will invent their way out of this.
> 
> Apparently, the more debt there is, the more wealth there is.




Do you have an economics masters Wayne? If not why are you commenting on this?


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## wayneL (5 September 2009)

GumbyLearner said:


> I have worked with plenty of yanks for years. Some of them are the best people I have ever met in my life. Culturally they are quite different to Aussies but at the same time most of them are just as easy going as Aussies.
> 
> The key difference that I have been able to observe is that they believe in philanthropy, which is certainly not an aussie trait. OZ is far more old school. They also stick together more than Aussies when the chips are down that's for sure.
> 
> ...




Pretty fair assessment there GL. I have a hellava lot of time for about half the yanks I meet. The rest.... no comment. Agree on the Canucks. I might be biased because I was born there (but never really lived there) but I think Canadians are the real deal, fantastic people... 'cept those miserable Quebecois.



It's Snake Pliskin said:


> Do you have an economics masters Wayne? If not why are you commenting on this?


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## MrBurns (5 September 2009)

Watch next time you see an interview with a Yank, just off the street or a Cop, they are polite intelligent and informed.

Then watch an Aussie, "yeah well it's like" 
"yeah mate, mate, mate I mean yeah"

Illiterate and brain damaged, don't know why but thats the way it is.

Saw an Australian interviewing a Cop once, the Cop called him Sir and was uplifting in his general attitude and smarts, the interviewer looked very uninteresting by comparison.

I know I'm pointing at myself but thats how they come across and when you go there and meet them, they are even better, keep your hands in your pockets though, they can and will sell you anything, thats part of the reason they will pull out of this slump.

After they close the sale you will even think they've done you a favor.


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## Trembling Hand (5 September 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Watch next time you see an interview with a Yank, just off the street or a Cop, they are polite intelligent and informed.




Polite will definitely agree. Its quit nice to be address in a respectful way by a stranger. Makes a simple conversation a pleasure.

Intelligence will depend on the person. Just like any group of people anywhere.

Informed  you have to be kidding Burns. Their ignorance of topics outside of the US is legendary, as a generalisation of course.

Unfortunately for Aussies we have a bias to the Yank accent which we take as authoritative. Very strange. Very dangerous too.


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## MrBurns (5 September 2009)

Trembling Hand said:


> Informed  you have to be kidding Burns. Their ignorance of topics outside of the US is legendary, as a generalisation of course.
> 
> Unfortunately for Aussies we have a bias to the Yank accent which we take as authoritative. Very strange. Very dangerous too.




Perhaps the seem informed because they can put 2 words together properly and maybe topics outside the US just don't interest them.

Their accent can be irritating I'm afraid but after a lifetime of Yankee films you are indoctrinated into thinking all wisdom comes in that voice.


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## noirua (13 September 2020)




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## basilio (26 September 2020)

Watching Boston Legal clips.

Always quirky and brilliant dialogue.  On a number of occasions they skewer US Government political actions. This is one of those examples.


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## dutchie (27 September 2020)

The USA should be ashamed of itself at the moment.
To be nominating a person with dementia for the most powerful position in the world is actually abusive.


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## basilio (27 September 2020)

dutchie said:


> The USA should be ashamed of itself at the moment.
> To be nominating a person with dementia for the most powerful position in the world is actually abusive.



Excellent nomination for "Rubbish post of the year" award . 
Also highly recommended for "Special Troll" quip.


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## dutchie (27 September 2020)

Finally I might win something on ASF. I have been in quite a few competitions on ASF over the years , but have never even come close to winning.
This might be my chance. It's just an honour to be nominated, as they say, by the King of "Rubbish posts".


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## dutchie (27 September 2020)

Seriously though, Joe can't help the fact that he has dementia. He probably does not realise he is being abused. But that is no excuse for the people around him, especially his wife, Jill.


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## moXJO (28 September 2020)

pretty sure he had two brain aneurysms


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## dutchie (29 September 2020)

The lefts reaction to Trumps brilliant move to appoint Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court


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## basilio (7 October 2020)

Another Poll when Trump scores higher than any other major international leader.









						U.S. Image Plummets Internationally as Most Say Country Has Handled Coronavirus Badly
					

In several countries, favorable views of the U.S. are at their lowest point since the Center began polling on this topic two decades ago.




					www.pewresearch.org


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## basilio (11 October 2020)

Can't be said plainer that this.  If your black in  Sth Carolina you can go anywhere - as long as your conservative.  (*Please wear your MAGA hat  at all times.)   *

* "Liberals" watch out.  We've got your number.*

*Graham says SC people of color can go anywhere in the state but 'need to be conservative, not liberal'*









						Graham says SC people of color can go anywhere in the state but 'need to be conservative, not liberal'
					

Senator Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) said in a forum Friday night that people of color “can go anywhere in this state,” as long as they are “conservative, not liberal.”




					thehill.com


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## Knobby22 (11 October 2020)

basilio said:


> Can't be said plainer that this.  If your black in  Sth Carolina you can go anywhere - as long as your conservative.  (*Please wear your MAGA hat  at all times.)   *
> 
> * "Liberals" watch out.  We've got your number.*
> 
> ...



If I was black there, I would be buying a Trump hat. So close to an Autocratic Government due to you know who.


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