# Keep getting smashed on volatile sideways ranges (E-Mini S&P 500)



## darkhorse70 (11 March 2015)

Quick question for anyone trading the futures markets. On ninja trader while i sim trade the emini sp500, I do well on strong trending markets with strong momentum breakouts. 

I try to figure out what type of market its going to be that day but i keep getting hammered when the contract volume explodes and hits the few k mark per 5minutes. Especially when the market is trending or even in a range and the contracts explode, the market gets pushed one way then another and kills everyone in between. 

Its very hard to get a sense of direction of which way its going to go and who is actually in control.

Is there any one that trades this type of market.

Before these conditions come into play, i do well with a good win/loss ratio and slowly accumulate some $ however when this setup occurs i lose 500-1000$ on 1-2 contracts. I lose all sense of discipline and feel as though i become a pure gambler.

I guess what im trying to ask is, do prop traders avoid these situations. I don't want to miss a good setup as sometimes the direction becomes clear and there is a huge run but then again sometimes there are so many false breakouts it drives you nuts.

Kind regards

DH7


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## darkhorse70 (11 March 2015)

*Re: Keep getting smashed on volatile sideways ranges (EMINI SP500)*




FOR EXAMPLE ^

In hindsight its easy to see where it could have went but when you have huge bars that closed in a tight range from open to close and bars that overlap each other etc it gets you so confused. The way im approaching it is some institutions or whatever have an agenda and theyre pushing people one way and another to get what they want but its hard to figure which way they want to go.

By the way the point im talking about is just after 12:30AM


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## CanOz (11 March 2015)

*Re: Keep getting smashed on volatile sideways ranges (EMINI SP500)*



darkhorse70 said:


> Quick question for anyone trading the futures markets. On ninja trader while i sim trade the emini sp500, I do well on strong trending markets with strong momentum breakouts.
> 
> I try to figure out what type of market its going to be that day but i keep getting hammered when the contract volume explodes and hits the few k mark per 5minutes. Especially when the market is trending or even in a range and the contracts explode, the market gets pushed one way then another and kills everyone in between.
> 
> ...




Honestly, are you sure this is not news Driven? The ES is pretty thick to be exploding anywhere.


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## darkhorse70 (11 March 2015)

*Re: Keep getting smashed on volatile sideways ranges (EMINI S&P 500)*

Hey can, not sure. I dont really pay attention to news or such just because I dont want to add in to many elements to my trading yet. More so focused on price action and volume for now.

However from my short experience of doing a couple hundred hours on the sim, its pretty normal for the contracts to start peaking near this time frame. Is it unusual amount of volume, NO.

But its the most volatile time from my opinion and the least predictable at times.

Thoughts?


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## CanOz (11 March 2015)

*Re: Keep getting smashed on volatile sideways ranges (EMINI S&P 500)*



darkhorse70 said:


> Hey can, not sure. I dont really pay attention to news or such just because I dont want to add in to many elements to my trading yet. More so focused on price action and volume for now.
> 
> However from my short experience of doing a couple hundred hours on the sim, its pretty normal for the contracts to start peaking near this time frame. Is it unusual amount of volume, NO.
> 
> ...




Well, two things...keep an eye out on an FX calendar for news prior to the US open as this is a heavy news period. Secondly, if you are trading the ES before the open, then you need to be watching the Dax. The Dax and the FTSE lead because they are in their cash equity sessions...

Cheers,


CanOz


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## jmg86 (11 March 2015)

*Re: Keep getting smashed on volatile sideways ranges (EMINI S&P 500)*

12:30am Sydney time is when the cash markets open so all the arb's etc start to trade along with the underlying stocks.  There will be an explosion of volume at that time every day.  They have just started daylight savings, so its an hour earlier than your probably familiar with.


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## minwa (11 March 2015)

You are too focused on the micro action. You did not know the equity markets opens at 12.30 ? Obviously there's going to be an exploison of volume at the open. 

Try something: zoom out a bit, have a directional bias basis higher time frame and only trade in that direction. You are so zoomed in you do not even realise it's the very perfect definition of a down trend, clean lower lows and lower highs. Once you can do that, then look to scalp on a micro scale.

View attachment 61940


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## darkhorse70 (11 March 2015)

Thanks can, ill scope through the FX calendar page from now on and ill watch the DAX/FTSE.

JMG/MINWA I thought that the time was US time since the exchange is based in the US?

I know the US equity markets open 12:30am Sydney time though.

MINWA regarding a bigger time frame, I feel as though the amount you risk increases as you move up time frames. For example there are always bigger and stronger support/resistance levels. There are cycles within cycles within cycles. It's like saying market crashes happen daily. Its just in the context which matters. For example when the GFC happened it was on a bigger time frame however the same event can unfold on a shorter time frame.

By looking at a bigger time frame it might give you a bit of a better understanding of the direction but it also allows you to make excuses when a position doesn't go your way and makes you hold on for longer in hopes it will rebound at the next support level etc.

I can use a daily time frame as reference, however I prefer to look at levels where there was unusual activity and bet for or against them depending on how the react at that level. My biggest mistake in the pic I posted was I jumped on board before the bar closed and most times it didn't get below the level of the previous hence there was a pullback and I got stopped out.

However I'm focusing more so on the action of the few previous bars coming into that level to set me up as sometimes by the time the bar is closed your opportunity is gone.


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## Pnut (31 March 2015)

darkhorse70 said:


> Thanks can, ill scope through the FX calendar page from now on and ill watch the DAX/FTSE.
> 
> JMG/MINWA I thought that the time was US time since the exchange is based in the US?
> 
> I know the US equity markets open 12:30am Sydney time though.




My thoughts if you want to trade US get in with a good US trade room. They will be up to date on what's going on for that day, announcements etc.

But if you want to make a profit just trade the easy trades with a high probability win rate and leave the rest to someone else.
Personally I could only have been a seller according to your chart my indicators are trend Bias and the trend is down.

My thoughts only.
Pnut.


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