# Would you consider voting on the blockchain?



## sixtyonefourfive (21 June 2019)

How can we still be voting with pencil and paper in 2019, its outrageous.  One such company changing the way we vote is called Horizon State, they using the cryptocurrency called HST tokens to power a voting/decision platform.  The voting process is around 90% cheaper, the results are instant and cannot be hacked or rigged.  The way the HST tokens work is by using fiat money to buy the HST tokens on the open market to power the voting process.  After the voting process is finished and the results are know, then 20% per month of HST decision tokens get sold back to the market, so as not to drop the price too much.  Then 5% get donated to charity and up to 8% get burned, which helps to reduce the supply of the HST tokens, so as to bring buying pressure back to the market.


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## Smurf1976 (21 June 2019)

I'm not following why a voting system should require anything to be bought with actual money beyond the infrastructure etc?

Surely if this was going to be used for an actual Australian election (which I assume is the point given the pencil and paper reference) then government would just decree the HST tokens into existence by directing the Australian Electoral Commission to create the required number which would cost practically nothing.

Using blockchain tech for the purposes of conducting an election I can follow but I'm not seeing why any actual money needs to be involved and why things need to be sold to a market in order to conduct an election?


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## fergee (1 January 2020)

sixtyonefourfive said:


> How can we still be voting with pencil and paper in 2019, its outrageous.  One such company changing the way we vote is called Horizon State, they using the cryptocurrency called HST tokens to power a voting/decision platform.  The voting process is around 90% cheaper, the results are instant and cannot be hacked or rigged.  The way the HST tokens work is by using fiat money to buy the HST tokens on the open market to power the voting process.  After the voting process is finished and the results are know, then 20% per month of HST decision tokens get sold back to the market, so as not to drop the price too much.  Then 5% get donated to charity and up to 8% get burned, which helps to reduce the supply of the HST tokens, so as to bring buying pressure back to the market.



This is ludicrous. I think using block chain technology for voting is great idea if it enables us to not have to turn up to the local primary school(or where ever they do it these days) and waste our Saturday morning. I would even suggest using the same technology to enable instant referendums on all sorts of issues forming a consensus of the people which the politicians have to listen too instead of us just listening to them.


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## qldfrog (2 January 2020)

Just a note of warning about instant referendum
It would be the quickest way to see a cute kitten elected as president of australia with 95% of the 29000 votes....
Think about it, if not convinced open any facebook group page
Politicians are mostly evil/interested.
People are mostly dumb


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## Knobby22 (2 January 2020)

I'm against  it.
Vote in the afternoon, no waiting.

Meet your fellow voters.
Don't become an insular internet gnome believing your crazy left wing or right wing fantasies. Mix with the people.


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## InsvestoBoy (3 January 2020)

This is obviously an advertisement to pump HST and the poster should be banned.


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## fergee (3 January 2020)

qldfrog said:


> Just a note of warning about instant referendum
> It would be the quickest way to see a cute kitten elected as president of australia with 95% of the 29000 votes....
> Think about it, if not convinced open any facebook group page
> Politicians are mostly evil/interested.
> People are mostly dumb



A kitten may be actually be better than the wallies that have been voted in the last few years 
I have never used face book so I don't know what a group page is like but I could imagine its a bunch of screaming monkeys saying things they would never dare say in real life to each other.
Even dumb people have the right to be heard. I still think this is the way of the future, a lot of tax payer money would be saved on referendums and it would give people a feeling of being heard for once.


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## fergee (3 January 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> I'm against  it.
> Vote in the afternoon, no waiting.
> 
> Meet your fellow voters.
> Don't become an insular internet gnome believing your crazy left wing or right wing fantasies. Mix with the people.



You sure your not just in it for the free sausage breakfast? 

It would be good if they tested online voting out on a smaller western democratic country first.....NZ maybe?


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## qldfrog (4 January 2020)

Online voting need trust in your own government, even more than paper bulletin..no recount possible
Do you trust your government be it state or federal?
I do not last time i did was probably 15y or so
Lastly, in a country where you need to use satellite internet 25km from Brisbane general post office, and where even a census can not be handled properly, on line voting is the last thing to try.
But we could blame results on the Russian, Chinese or climate change...hum tempting


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## SirRumpole (4 January 2020)

qldfrog said:


> Online voting need trust in your own government, even more than paper bulletin..no recount possible
> Do you trust your government be it state or federal?
> I do not last time i did was probably 15y or so
> Lastly, in a country where you need to use satellite internet 25km from Brisbane general post office, and where even a census can not be handled properly, on line voting is the last thing to try.
> But we could blame results on the Russian, Chinese or climate change...hum tempting




Ballot papers can be "lost" too, so if there is a more foolproof way of voting, I'm all for it.


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## Bill M (4 January 2020)

I am all for a 100% secure online voting system. I hate going to local schools and lining up, I hate getting pamphlets getting shoved into my hand when I know who I'm voting for, I hate free sausage sizzles where again there are hoards of people and flies everywhere and well I hate losing all my time doing it all.

Today is 43 degrees C where I live, I have my aircon on and I am comfortable. If I had to go out to vote I would give it a big miss and cop the $20 fine. Why shouldn't I be able to vote from my own aircon home in comfort online? Further more I HATE that we are forced against our will to go and vote. It should not be compulsory. The whole voting system needs to be overhauled!

Rant over, I'm back to my ordinary self now.


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## barney (4 January 2020)

Bill M said:


> I hate going to local schools
> I hate getting pamphlets
> I hate free sausage sizzles
> I hate losing all my time doing it all.
> I HATE that we are forced against our will to go and vote.




Lol ….. So much hate Bill

I didn't realise my Old Man was registered on ASF



Bill M said:


> Rant over, I'm back to my ordinary self now




It's ok Bill (Dad) ... We all understand 

Just kidding above in case it doesn't read the way it should ... My Old Man is a champion

​


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## qldfrog (4 January 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Ballot papers can be "lost" too, so if there is a more foolproof way of voting, I'm all for it.



Physical is harder to disappear, harder to forge has to be carried burnt etc
I work/worked in IT and everything is so easy to manipulate once digital.
Last example so called sat image of the bushfires where you see orange flames...well no, actually recolored images.
These are fed on all media lately
Complete BS yet....
No need for russian experts, for a binary vote yes/ no, a piece of cake to manipulate delete etc
And will voters accept that their vote could be stored on a Russian or Chinese mainframe, or a commercial enterprise? No so it will be dedicated gov server, not distributed
No wizkid is working for gov agency, so expect the worse.
But i would not bet it will not happen, we live in a world where uninformed idiotic sheep voters and propaganda rules.
News, climate change, etc
The west has had its time...
Democracy is a nightmare when voters are dumb/uninformed/uneducated
Look at African banana republics if you need proof, or India
Going electronic will ensure the ruling class will not even need to pretend campaigning


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## fergee (4 January 2020)

qldfrog said:


> Physical is harder to disappear, harder to forge has to be carried burnt etc
> I work/worked in IT and everything is so easy to manipulate once digital.
> Last example so called sat image of the bushfires where you see orange flames...well no, actually recolored images.
> These are fed on all media lately
> ...




How easy is it to manipulate a block chain transaction once completed using biometric identification compared to "loosing" a few boxes of A4 off the back of truck. 

Idiots or not every adult citizen deserves a say in a democracy otherwise by definition its not one. If you live in Australia, NZ, UK, USA, Canada  or the EU you are lucky to enjoy the freedoms most of the world do not enjoy.


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## qldfrog (4 January 2020)

Reasonable democracy do not force idiots to vote, we do with mandatory voting so definitively not the model here
So now we add biometrics in the medley..where will you stored that block chain,?
Fully clean distributed but then it means no control on where some of the data reside.sell this to the people
Or you have a server(s) restricted blockchain..which is not really blockchain is it? As it can be deleted?
And BTW
Societies does not advance with democracy but with benevolent autocracy.
The last 15y in Australia demonstrates clearly the advantages of democracy i know..


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## fergee (4 January 2020)

qldfrog said:


> Reasonable democracy do not force idiots to vote, we do with mandatory voting so definitively not the model here



Yeah they got the horse behind the cart on this one they should be giving ya $20 to vote and if you dont vote you have to give the give the government a sausage


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## barney (4 January 2020)

fergee said:


> * if you dont vote you have to give the give the government a sausage*




I literally laughed out loud


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## InsvestoBoy (4 January 2020)

Bill M said:


> I am all for a 100% secure online voting system. I hate going to local schools and lining up, I hate getting pamphlets getting shoved into my hand when I know who I'm voting for, I hate free sausage sizzles where again there are hoards of people and flies everywhere and well I hate losing all my time doing it all.
> 
> Today is 43 degrees C where I live, I have my aircon on and I am comfortable. If I had to go out to vote I would give it a big miss and cop the $20 fine. Why shouldn't I be able to vote from my own aircon home in comfort online? Further more I HATE that we are forced against our will to go and vote. It should not be compulsory. The whole voting system needs to be overhauled!
> 
> Rant over, I'm back to my ordinary self now.




Don't take the price of democracy for granted @Bill M


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## qldfrog (4 January 2020)

fergee said:


> Yeah they got the horse behind the cart on this one they should be giving ya $20 to vote and if you dont vote you have to give the give the government a sausage



if you want to have a serious thinking about democracy: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/11/07/the-case-against-democracy
Do you think Singapore would be what it is with democracy, and the west has a special interpretation of democracy, as per Hillary Clinton, Labour here or Brexit debate..How dare they.....the lamentable, the other, read the scomo thread today and the hate against what is 51Pc of the country by some of the left...Could be same on the other side if Labour had win...
even worse when the muslim brotherhood takes power in Egypt, the west cheering/instigating a coup d'etat...
Democracy only if it suits "us"...so yes trust a blockchain not 1pc of population understands to decide our leader..


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## wayneL (22 December 2020)

Just talking to a client of mine who works for Amazon... On the whole AI blockchain side of things.

in light of the recent fiasco in the United States I asked him whether he could see us all voting on the blockchain to avoid any of these sort of arguments in the future.

He reckons it's a no brainer and in fact  his team is already in discussions with the Australian government with regards to transferring the voting system to blockchain.

I personally think it makes a lot of sense, in spite of any of my other opinions on these matters.

Surely it would have settled the argument lickety splitone way or the other in the US recently.


I like the idea on several levels to be honest, especially with our preferential voting system.

Now, if only the proles actually knew how the preferential system worked.

Updated thoughts?


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## InsvestoBoy (22 December 2020)

wayneL said:


> Just talking to a client of mine who works for Amazon... On the whole AI blockchain side of things.
> 
> in light of the recent fiasco in the United States I asked him whether he could see us all voting on the blockchain to avoid any of these sort of arguments in the future.
> 
> He reckons it's a no brainer and in fact  his team is already in discussions with the Australian government with regards to transferring the voting system to blockchain.




He sounds like someone who has no clue about elections, election technology and election security?

Hopefully he is full of crap about talking to our Government, and if not hopefully the Government is not stupid enough to consider it.

I'll defer to someone with actual experience/knowledge on the topic, nothing has changed since this tweet thread:


Also, "AI blockchain"


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## wayneL (23 December 2020)

InsvestoBoy said:


> He sounds like someone who has no clue about elections, election technology and election security?
> 
> Hopefully he is full of crap about talking to our Government, and if not hopefully the Government is not stupid enough to consider it.
> 
> ...




Great Twitteresque manners there @sshole.

Lack of punctuation... AI 'and' blockchain.

Okay, the point about election security.... Important point. 

Can you elucidate please?


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