# How big is your CFD trading account?



## Sugar Dunkaton (9 June 2010)

Just curious to see the size of everyones trading account.


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## Sugar Dunkaton (9 June 2010)

*Re: How big is your CFD Trading Account*

for anonymity please use the poll above.


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## nunthewiser (9 June 2010)

i got a big one.


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## Sir Osisofliver (9 June 2010)

*Admires Nuns Big One*

Noice


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## nunthewiser (9 June 2010)

winks at  sir O


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## tech/a (9 June 2010)

Which provider is doing the survey?


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## Sir Osisofliver (9 June 2010)

Hey Dunk (I'm sorry I'm not calling you sugar when I've got a Nun winking at me already) 

Are you going to ask how much brokerage and/or funding fees we pay in a month?

Cheers

Sir P


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## Sugar Dunkaton (9 June 2010)

Sorry, not a provider, just doing some research for an Assignment. I noticed the other day that CFD contracts overtook equity contracts according to the ASX and thought that it would be interesting to investigate this issue further as apparently there is only a small amount of CFD account users as opposed to those who have equity accounts (I havent got a fixed number for CFD accounts in Australia but current guestimates are around 40,000 individual accounts)


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## Sugar Dunkaton (9 June 2010)

Sir P,

Nope not really interested in that.

I am just trying to figure out how people in Australia are trading and how this has changed - but it is almost impossible to get any sort of good data on CFD trading in the Australian market and I figure if i can get a couple of hundred responses I can a least deduce a little out of it.


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## Sir Osisofliver (9 June 2010)

Sugar Dunkaton said:


> Sir P,
> 
> Nope not really interested in that.
> 
> I am just trying to figure out how people in Australia are trading and how this has changed - but it is almost impossible to get any sort of good data on CFD trading in the Australian market and I figure if i can get a couple of hundred responses I can a least deduce a little out of it.




It's Sir *O* P is next to O, it's just a typo. Please don't call me Sir P I sound like a Bodily function.

Curious as why Brokerage figures are not part of your research?  If the bro between equity and CFD's was the same you could exclude it from your research...but they are significantly different

Cheers

Sir O


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## bilo83 (9 June 2010)

Sugar Dunkaton said:


> Sorry, not a provider, just doing some research for an Assignment. I noticed the other day that CFD contracts overtook equity contracts according to the ASX and thought that it would be interesting to investigate this issue further as apparently there is only a small amount of CFD account users as opposed to those who have equity accounts (I havent got a fixed number for CFD accounts in Australia but current guestimates are around 40,000 individual accounts)




If you're talking about equity derivative contracts (options) don't forget 1contract = 1,000 shares. I ASX CFD contract = 1 share. The CFD volumes aren't anywhere near equity volumes.


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## Sugar Dunkaton (9 June 2010)

Thanks Sir O!

I can get all the data on commission rates and brokerage costs from providers. Cannex provide pretty solid reports on all of that, and its not hard just to check the websites of the providers.

and on the flip side, part of my argument is the difference in trading costs for CFDs which appear to be significantly cheaper than trading equities has caused this shift I am predicting. it is also apparent that for most people, the funding costs for CFD's are less than a margin loan. I am not quite sure how I am going to fit that in yet, but it looks at the moment that the small amount of people (who contribute the most to the market) have switched to using CFD's than the traditional methods, which I am forecasting will increase the liquidity in the markets significant, and increase daily trading values - a significant benefit for the market.


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## Trembling Hand (9 June 2010)

Sugar Dunkaton said:


> and on the flip side, part of my argument is the difference in trading costs for CFDs which appear to be significantly cheaper than trading equities has caused this shift I am predicting. it is also apparent that for most people, the funding costs for CFD's are less than a margin loan. I am not quite sure how I am going to fit that in yet, but it looks at the moment that the small amount of people (who contribute the most to the market) have switched to using CFD's than the traditional methods, which I am forecasting will increase the liquidity in the markets significant, and increase daily trading values - a significant benefit for the market.




I think there is something seriously wrong with your info or calculations. There is no way in the world that cfds transactions are greater than equities or the 'other' derivatives.


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## Trembling Hand (9 June 2010)

On another point the people who provide most of the volume do not trade CFDs. lol!!


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## Sugar Dunkaton (9 June 2010)

TH,

This is what the ASX is reporting - http://203.15.147.66/asx/statistics/tradingVolumes.do 

If you can interpret this data differently then I would appreciate that - but as far as I can tell, thats the way it looks.

Anyways, what i was more looking for is to get some data regarding the people using equity CFDs (not equity derivatives - although that might be something to look at - but as you can see in the above table, there are nowhere near as many contracts going through).

I am not trying to argue the fine points, hence the polls I have set up which should be easy to understand and answer - so I would love you all to submit your applicable responses, it would be a great help to me.


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## Trembling Hand (9 June 2010)

"The number of CFD contracts traded."

compared to

"The number of *trades *in Equities."

You cannot see the problem here?

Just an FYI the equity futs trade approx $3 bil a DAY. CFDs will not even be a tiny fraction of that.

EDIT; Just the options alone from that table are greater than the CFDs


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## Sugar Dunkaton (9 June 2010)

TH,

I have read a lot of your posts on here prior to this and as much as I respect what you have to say, you are missing the point here. I am trying to collect data on how people trade equity CFDs as oppposed to how people have traded Vanilla equities.

I appreciate you knowledge, obviously you have a lot to offer, but I was really just wanting to get some data from people who use CFDs. Thanks for your input so far.

Thanks


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## skc (9 June 2010)

Sugar Dunkaton said:


> TH,
> 
> This is what the ASX is reporting - http://203.15.147.66/asx/statistics/tradingVolumes.do
> 
> ...




The ASX only report no. of ASX CFD contracts. They have no way of knowing OTC CFD from other providers. With ASX CFD, 1 contract = 1 share. So the contract numbers you see are in fact so very insignificant.

And your poll... so much self selection / reporting bias the information would be next to useless.

The only way to get to the information is to speak with various CFD providers (who may not want to speak with you) or hope that someone else has done similar research before.


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## Trembling Hand (9 June 2010)

Sugar Dunkaton said:


> you are missing the point here. I am trying to collect data on how people trade equity CFDs as oppposed to how people have traded Vanilla equities.



 well you would of thought that starting with completely incorrect presumptions would be of some interest to your study but I was wrong.



Sugar Dunkaton said:


> I noticed the other day that CFD contracts overtook equity contracts according to the ASX



WRONG



Sugar Dunkaton said:


> it looks at the moment that the small amount of people (who contribute the most to the market) have switched to using CFD's than the traditional methods,



WRONG



Sugar Dunkaton said:


> If you can interpret this data differently then I would appreciate that - but as far as I can tell, thats the way it looks.



Nope you have not read the asx data correctly




Sugar Dunkaton said:


> equity derivatives - although that might be something to look at - but as you can see in the above table, there are nowhere near as many contracts going through.



Wrong thats not even in the table.


Carry on,


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## Sugar Dunkaton (9 June 2010)

I do understand the Bias from the polls given the nature of our participants, but i have spoken to CFD providers and they do not want to give out any of their statistics. 

This data is better than nothing, and until I have figured out another resource this will probably be the best shot I get. Anyways, Even for the moderators and other people who might use this forum, they may be interested on the people that are trading CFDs, getting some sort of demographic details... I think it is relevent. 

So please keep submitting your results, I do appreciate it greatly.


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## Sugar Dunkaton (9 June 2010)

Thank you for your input.

But just to clarify, I am looking to get an idea of who is trading equity CFDs (DMA, MM or ASX), vs those who trade Straight Equities or Equities Plus Margin loans with which I have received data from elsewhere.

All this other chat is irrelevant - and yes, I am learning as I go through. Maybe that ASX data was not the best point of reference and I have interpreted it wrong, HOWEVER, it has given me a topic to write my assignment on - and as such I would like to continue. I will not be using that table in my assignment.

Thank you to the person who pointed out CFD Contracts vs Equity trades - i did over look that.


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## akkopower (9 June 2010)

Sugar,

I heard an open lecture from Yale discussing research that was done on the no. of people that fail when they trade, they got data from a Hong Kongese broker. I am assuming this research led to a research paper. The info you are after may be reported somewhere in the financial literature....... If u are willing to search that hard.


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## barney (9 June 2010)

Sugar Dunkaton said:


> Sir P,






Sir Osisofliver said:


> It's Sir *O* P is next to O, it's just a typo. Please don't call me Sir P I sound like a Bodily function.




Lol .... Is it possible to actually have a typing Freudian slip  

If Sir O has consumed enough alcohol to earn cirrhosis of the liver, he would have certainly done his fair share of "P"ing

As for the size of my CFD accounts, they generally decreased a lot quicker than they rose, but I remember one that became quite large very quickly which was very much appreciated


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## Sir Osisofliver (10 June 2010)

barney said:


> Lol .... Is it possible to actually have a typing Freudian slip
> 
> If Sir O has consumed enough alcohol to earn cirrhosis of the liver, he would have certainly done his fair share of "P"ing
> 
> As for the size of my CFD accounts, they generally decreased a lot quicker than they rose, but I remember one that became quite large very quickly which was very much appreciated




Parapraxis is defined as an error in speech, memory or *physical action* that occurs due to the interference of a dynamically repressed wish, conflict or train of thought.

Once again it's justa typo; golden showers aren't my thing....you could ask Nun though 

Cheers

Sir O


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## nunthewiser (10 June 2010)

Sir Osisofliver said:


> Once again it's justa typo; golden showers aren't my thing....you could ask Nun though
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Sir O




Whatever floats ones boat i say


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## Judd (23 June 2010)

Well, some are a lot smaller or even now zero, given this little number:

http://www.theage.com.au/business/broker-collapse-hits-3000-clients-20100623-yxd3.html



> *Broker collapse hits 3000 clients*
> 
> One of the country's biggest intermediary brokers, Melbourne-based Sonray Capital, collapsed at 11 pm last night, freezing 3000 client accounts.
> 
> ...




CFD people are now unsecured creditors of Sonray.  Best of luck as you may need it.


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## lil smoochie (24 June 2010)

wow @ those who have 250k+ accounts!


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