# Genetic Facts and Fallacies



## 2020hindsight (15 March 2008)

http://www.epasd.org/55981257613530/lib/55981257613530/Genetics_Packet_student_packet.DOC

A quick quiz - 
it's about "you", your mum and your dad
or if you prefer - about you, your wife and your kids 

GENETIC FACTS AND FALLACIES QUIZ

T   F    1. Certain acquired characteristics, such as mechanical or mathematical skill, may be inherited.

T   F    2. Identical twins are always of the same sex.

T   F    3. Fraternal twins are more closely related to each other than to other children in a family.

T   F    4. The father determines the sex of a child.

T   F    5. Each parent contributes half of a child’s genetic makeup. 

T   F    6. Certain drugs or alcohol can cause birth defects in the fetus.

T   F    7. Colorblindness is more common in males than in females.

T   F    8. A person may transmit characteristics to offspring, which he, himself does not show.

T   F    9. Certain hereditary characteristics are influenced by the blood.

T   F   10. Identical twins are more closely related than fraternal twins. 

T   F   11. Certain inherited traits may be altered by the stars, moon, or planets early in development.

T   F   12. Males are biologically stronger than females.

T   F   13. The tendency to produce twins may run in families.

T   F   14. A craving for a food such as strawberries may cause a birthmark on an unborn child.

T   F   15. Many of a person’s inherited traits are not apparent.

T   F   16. The parent with the stronger “will-power” will contribute more to a child’s inheritance than the 	other parent.

T   F   17. If a person loses a limb in an accident, it is likely that he or she will have a child with a missing limb.

T   F   18. The attitude of the parents toward each other influences the emotional makeup of an unborn child.

T   F   19. Children born to older parents usually lack the vitality of those born to younger parents.

T   F   20. The total number of male births exceeds female births each year.

T   F   21. If a male mongrel dog mates with a pedigree (show quality) female dog, all future litters will have some characteristics from the mongrel male.


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## 2020hindsight (15 March 2008)

FUNDAMENTALS OF GENETICS

HEREDITY”” The passing of traits from parents to offspring - Transmitted by means of information stored in molecules of DNA

GENETICS--- Scientific study of heredity- Based on knowledge that traits are transmitted by chromosomes 
Chromosomes carry units of hereditary information called ___________

Since an organism receives genes from both parents it is not exactly like either parent but like each parent in some ways

ENVIRONMENT--- All the outside forces that act on an organism.  Affects the development and later life of an organism as well as the expression of hereditary traits

HEREDITY & ENVIRONMENT--- are the two great influences, acting together all through you life, that have made you what you are at this moment.


GREGOR MENDEL --  “_____________________________” – Austrian monk – 1865 
--his research with garden peas led to the discovery of the basic principles of heredity
 --Garden peas were a good choice for experimentation because:
1.	They can be cultivated quickly
2.	They display several traits in one of two contrasting forms: 
        Height””tall/short             seed color””yellow/green
3.	They normally self-pollinating plants are very easy to cross- pollinate.
-- Mendel used logical experimental methods and kept careful records


MENDELIAN GENETICS OVERVIEW

We humans each have two sets of _____chromosomes – _____ chromosomes total.

Our __________________ are made up of our genes, which are pieces of DNA that code for certain traits.

For example, both of our chromosome’s might contain the genes for hair texture or height or maybe even intelligence. 

The different forms or types of a specific gene are called ___________. For example, a GENE for eye color might have a blue allele, a brown allele, and a green allele. In plants, a gene for flower color might have a yellow allele and a white allele.

Because our chromosomes are in two sets, we have two copies of each gene, one from our mom and one from our dad.

If both of our parents gave us the same type of gene – the same allele – then we are _____________________________or pure (on both sets of our chromosomes, on both sets of genes, the allele is the same). 

If one parent gave us one type of gene and the other parent gave us a different type, then we are ___________________________  or hybrid – we have two different alleles. 

With MENDELIAN traits (the type of traits that Mendel studied), heterozygotes DO NOT have a _____________of the two alleles. 

Instead, one type of allele dominates – we show the characteristics of this allele only – it is the _________________  trait. The other version of the trait is still there on half of our chromosomes (so we might still pass it on to our children, depending on meiosis) BUT it doesn’t affect us right now””it is __________________

Whether we are heterozygous, homozygous with the dominant trait, or homozygous with the recessive trait is what’s called our ____________________ (type of genes that we have).

Which trait we physically show is our ______________________ (the type of allele that is expressed.)

For example, if the dominant allele of the eye color gene is brown and the recessive allele of the eye color gene is blue, then the person could have …

Two blue alleles –bb””(one from mom, one from dad), in which case the genotype would be ______________________________and the  phenotype would be ________________


Two brown alleles –BB””(one from mom, one from dad), in which case the genotype would be ___________________________________and the phenotype would be ______________


One brown and one blue allele –Bb””(one form mom and one form dad) so the genotype would be ______________________ and the phenotype would be _____________________

When only one trait is being studied in a genetic cross, it is called a monohybrid cross. When parent organisms, called the P generation, are crossed, the resulting offspring are the first filial, or F1 generation. When organisms of the F1 generation are crossed, their offspring make up the second filial or, F2 generation.



MENDEL’S 2 LAWS:

1. _________________________________= Explains the disappearance of a specific trait in the F1 generation and its reappearance in the F2 generation

2. _________________________________= Explains that different traits are inherited independently if on different chromosomes
-	Wrinkled seeds do not have to be yellow. They can be green.
-	A gamete with RrYy
o	R and r – separate into different gametes
o	Y and y – Separate into different gametes
-	They can then recombine 4 ways to form gametes:
RY	Ry  	rY 	ry


INHERITANCE OF HUMAN TRAITS
DOMINANT/ RECESSIVE

Dark hair/ Light hair
Non-red hair/ Red hair
Curly hair/ Straight hair
Widows peak/ Straight or curved hairline
White forelock/ normal hair
Body hair/ Scant body hair
Piebald skin/ normal skin
Freckles/ Normal
Dimples/ No dimples
Brown eyes/ gray or blue eyes
Hazel or green eyes/ Gray or blue eyes
Farsighted/ Normal eyesight
Normal eyesight/ Nearsighted
Large eyes/ Small eyes
Long eyelashes/ Short eyelashes
Broad nostrils/ Narrow nostrils
Roman nose/ Straight nose
Large nose/ Small nose
Free ear lobe/ Attached ear lobe
Extra toes & fingers/ Normal fingers
Web fingers/ Normal fingers
Bent little fingers/ Parallel little fingers
Left over right thumb/ Right over left thumb
A or B blood/ O blood
RH+ blood/ RH- blood
Normal clotting/ Hemophilia
Normal / Allergy
Migraine headaches/ Normal headaches
Normal intelligence/ Feebleminded
Harelip & cleft palate/ Normal mouth
Tongue roller/ Non-roller


--Genetic messages determine what organisms _______ become 
--The interaction of messages and the environment determines what organisms ______ become
--Organisms inherit _________________________, not traits!
--Traits develop when genetic messages interact with the environment


HUMAN GENETICS
Fraternal vs. Identical Twins
_____________________ develop from a single fertilized egg that splits shortly after fertilization

Since they developed from the same egg they have exactly the same genetic makeup.

_________________________ develop from two eggs that are fertilized by different sperms. They are completely different people

By studying identical twins, geneticists have learned that genes seem to have a greater influence than the environment on such traits as height, weight, blood pressure, speech patterns, and gestures. They have also discovered that genes play a role in some medical problems once thought to be caused only by environmental factors. For instance, genes can cause a susceptibility to diseases such as diabetes and certain types of cancer.

Heredity and the Mind
-there is some evidence intelligence is related to genes
-strong evidence that certain kinds of retardation have a genetic basis
-maniac-depressive psychosis and schizophrenia are both thought to be inherited at least  to some degree

Inherited Diseases
-infections and infectious diseases cannot be inherited
-certain chemical conditions of the cells and body tissues important in resistance against 
 infections may be inherited.
-diseases resulting from abnormal structure or function of body organs are more likely to be hereditary

- some diseases that may be associated with genes are:
-diabetes – respiratory allergies – asthma – bronchitis – nearsightedness – farsightedness – night blindness

Sex Determination
Sex chromosomes – determine the sex of an individual
--the X chromosomes (XX) produce a ________________
--an X chromosome paired with a Y chromosome (XY) produces a ___________
--since only a male can produce a gamete bearing a Y chromosome, the father determines the _________ of the child
--but it is also interesting to note that since the X chromosome contains additional genetic  
information that the Y chromosome does not have a male child actually inherits more genetic information from his mother than his father (a very tiny amount)

Sex-Linked Traits
--traits that occur more frequently in one sex than another such as color blindness and hemophilia in males

--occurs because other genes besides the alleles for sex are located on sex  chromosomes
--they are recessive to the normal condition and the Y chromosomes appear to lack genes for these traits
--these traits generally do no show up in females


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## julius (15 March 2008)

where are the quiz answers?


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## 2020hindsight (15 March 2008)

sorry julius 
out there in google land 
(think of it as a crossword - "Solution in Next Week's Sun Herald" etc) 
or tomorrow whatever 
(PS It's obvious I suspect that I don't necessarily know the answers, lol)


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## Julia (15 March 2008)

2020, pretty pointless posting these quizzes without giving a link to the answers or preferably including answers on the thread.


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## 2020hindsight (15 March 2008)

OK here are my guesses:-

T 1. Certain acquired characteristics, such as mechanical or mathematical skill, may be inherited.

T 2. Identical twins are always of the same sex.

F 3. Fraternal twins are more closely related to each other than to other children in a family.

T 4. The father determines the sex of a child.

T 5. Each parent contributes half of a child’s genetic makeup. 

T 6. Certain drugs or alcohol can cause birth defects in the fetus.

T 7. Colorblindness is more common in males than in females.

T 8. A person may transmit characteristics to offspring, which he, himself does not show.

F 9. Certain hereditary characteristics are influenced by the blood.

T 10. Identical twins are more closely related than fraternal twins. 

F 11. Certain inherited traits may be altered by the stars, moon, or planets early in development.

T 12. Males are biologically stronger than females.

T 13. The tendency to produce twins may run in families.

F 14. A craving for a food such as strawberries may cause a birthmark on an unborn child.

T 15. Many of a person’s inherited traits are not apparent.

F 16. The parent with the stronger “will-power” will contribute more to a child’s inheritance than the other parent.

F 17. If a person loses a limb in an accident, it is likely that he or she will have a child with a missing limb.

T 18. The attitude of the parents toward each other influences the emotional makeup of an unborn child.

F 19. Children born to older parents usually lack the vitality of those born to younger parents.

T 20. The total number of male births exceeds female births each year.

T 21. If a male mongrel dog mates with a pedigree (show quality) female dog, all future litters will have some characteristics from the mongrel male.


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## roland (15 March 2008)

Julia said:


> 2020, pretty pointless posting these quizzes without giving a link to the answers or preferably including answers on the thread.




hohum - sort of expected considering the originator of the thread - I resisted looking and am now disappointed for doing so.

How is Julia, by the way?


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## Garpal Gumnut (15 March 2008)

12. Males are biologically stronger than females.

How do you define biologically stronger?

gg


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## 2020hindsight (15 March 2008)

roland said:


> hohum - sort of expected considering the originator of the thread - I resisted looking and am now disappointed for doing so.
> 
> How is Julia, by the way?




gee whiz roland
getting a bit personal there 

Hey mods - please close this thread, Julia and Roland are bored lol.

btw, Ethics in Genetics is probably the most controversial field you could consider taking on.   This thread could be a real hum-dinger 

But that assumes that you show a little bit of  mmm interest / intelligence / all of the above. 

Here are some of the directions Genetics leads...

http://www.lessonplanet.com/search/search?keywords=Genetic&rating=4&gclid=COnLr-mHj5ICFSAWawodFGo1_A


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## 2020hindsight (15 March 2008)

PS I'm with Phillip Adams, who  "simply cannot understand how people could be bored with life given the beautiful mysteries and coincidences behind it all"

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=201776&highlight=valley#post201776



			
				2020 said:
			
		

> Any of you folks lucky enough to hear Phillip Adams being interviewed today on "the conversation hour" - I happened to be driving to a site meeting. Such a brilliant mind -
> he makes a couple of points
> a) the fact that an asteroid caused the death of the dinosaurs is the only reason man is here!!!
> b) we are a fluke result of that incident !!
> ...






> Adams had another couple of comments (seriously paraphrasing here - hopefully that interview will be posted on ABC website one of these days) :-
> 
> e) the mystery in the fact that we are unique - so unique that only THAT sperm with THAT egg could have ended up (months later whatever) making us.
> f) that the odds against you being YOU (and not your brother for instance, i.e. the next sperm) are millions to one
> ...


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## BIG BWACULL (15 March 2008)

Look in your pants if you have a shlongyou are biologically stronger
That didnt answer the question OH Well


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## 2020hindsight (15 March 2008)

As for that quiz -  obviously it's pretty basic..
But you have to start somewhere. 


Like 1-3 are obvious
Here's the reason behind 4... (as if anyone didn't know) 

http://biology.about.com/od/basicgenetics/a/aa071705a.htm


> Sex Chromosomes X-Y
> 
> The male gametes or sperm cells in humans and other mammals are heterogametic and contain one of two types of sex chromosomes. They are either X or Y. The female gametes or eggs however, contain only the X sex chromosome and are homogametic. The sperm cell determines the sex of an individual in this case. If a sperm cell containing an X chromosome fertilizes an egg, the resulting zygote will be XX or female. If the sperm cell contains a Y chromosome, then the resulting zygote will be XY or male.


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## 2020hindsight (15 March 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> 12. Males are biologically stronger than females.
> 
> How do you define biologically stronger?
> 
> gg




ahh - good point gg  

another of those ambiguous questions it seems .... 

seems that women are the more "biologically strong" - if that means best chance of "making it" through the birth process.

but men, being the more muscular, are literally stronger. 

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/644520



> Genetically speaking, (and however men hate to admit this, inclusing myself) *women are the stronger *gender. More male foetuses are spontaniously aborted, stillborn, or die of birth trauma. They have also been proven to be more suceptable to various diseases such as convulsions, viral infections (there really is such thing as 'Man Flu!') ulcers, Conorary Heart Disease and some kinds of cancer. British women also live up to eight years longer than men on average, assuming they die of natural causes.
> It's been found that this biological vulnerability is due to the smaller Y chromosome present in all males. (Men have an XY formation, whereas women have XX)
> 
> *However, men have a lot more muscle mass on average, so in a literal sense, men are stronger, but in a metaphorical sense, they are weaker*.


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## Doris (15 March 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> 12. Males are biologically stronger than females.
> 
> How do you define biologically stronger?
> 
> gg




Good question GG...

2020 this is the only one of your answers I disagree with.

Males are physically stronger due to their muscle mass compared to females.

Not only are more males born compared to females but I recall reading that there are a lot more males conceived compared to females as there are more male miscarriages than female.

I reckon males traditionally have shorter longevity than females as they tended to let the women do the work (housework = exercise) and they abused stress, junk food, alcohol and cigarettes more then women.  ???

Still... biologically, females are stronger!

I've always been fascinated by the fact that, over the centuries, when males went off to war and were slaughtered in great numbers, the number of males born in the next x years increased dramatically to make up the loss to try to even the M/F balance. Isn't it amazing how half the population is male?  Except in outback towns!


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## 2020hindsight (15 March 2008)

Doris - yep I have seen the error in my answer. 

Gotta feeling I'm wrong about 21 as well.
You keep breeding a mongrel's descendants with purebreds, you could presumaby end up with a purebred?
EXCEPT that the odds would be trivially small.


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## Garpal Gumnut (15 March 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> Doris - yep I have seen the error in my answer.
> 
> Gotta feeling I'm wrong about 21 as well.
> You keep breeding a mongrel's descendants with purebreds, you could presumaby end up with a purebred?
> EXCEPT that the odds would be trivially small.




You also might end up with a "new" pure breed. 

gg


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## Doris (15 March 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> Sex Chromosomes X-Y
> 
> The male gametes or sperm cells in humans and other mammals are heterogametic and contain one of two types of sex chromosomes. They are either X or Y. The female gametes or eggs however, contain only the X sex chromosome and are homogametic. The sperm cell determines the sex of an individual in this case. If a sperm cell containing an X chromosome fertilizes an egg, the resulting zygote will be XX or female. If the sperm cell contains a Y chromosome, then the resulting zygote will be XY or male.




When I was a kid I always wondered why boys had nipples... until I learnt the above at school. Then I figured out that all fetuses/people have a basic female body and the Y chromosome causes the hormones that make changes to produce the male traits!

Makes Eve being made from Adam's rib hard to digest...

Isn't it five generations to go before the Y chromosome is non-existent?


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## Doris (15 March 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> Gotta feeling I'm wrong about 21 as well.
> You keep breeding a mongrel's descendants with purebreds, you could presumaby end up with a purebred?
> EXCEPT that the odds would be trivially small.




This reminds me of a situation near Biloela where an aboriginal guy killed his aboriginal wife for playing up on him, as she'd had a red-haired, blue-eyed son.  It was later found that her grandfather was an itinerant Irishman!  The husband would have had a recessive blue gene for this to happen... ignorance is not bliss.

When I was a kid a Greek guy down the road told his wife not to come home if their third child was another girl!  He actually beat her up in hospital when it turned out to be another girl!!!

I can't recall... but aren't there about 28 genes that influence eye colour? Not simply one.  So it'd take a long time to produce a 'purebred look' which would always have some DNA coming through from the mongrel.


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## 2020hindsight (15 March 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> You also might end up with a "new" pure breed. gg



personally I think "crossbred"  dogs are the best 

And that would also go for mixed race people. That's not an insult to anybody btw.  Best of both parents  

heck I'm 50% pom, 25% Scot, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German,  18.5% mathematician etc etc, probably a bit of Swahili as well etc.

As if any of us are "purebred" - What is a "purebred" person anyway?

IMO, some of the most beautiful women in the world are of an absolute mixture of races.  (Eurasian etc).  

Wouldn't you like to meet all your 64 (?) great-great-great-great grandparents ... line em up ...   and talk to them for a while,  and try to work out from whom you received which genes.

I sometimes ponder that over a beer.


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## 2020hindsight (16 March 2008)

Doris said:


> but aren't there about 28 genes that influence eye colour? Not simply one.  So it'd take a long time to produce a 'purebred look' which would always have some DNA coming through from the mongrel.



doris, yep.
and btw, my 3 kids all have different hair colour lol.  

(it's ok though, the milkman was bald )

at least 3 genes make eye colour - you're right. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_color


> ... Eye color is an inherited trait influenced by more than one gene.[6][7] There are two major genes and other minor ones that account for the tremendous variation of human eye color.[8] In humans, three genes associated with eye color are currently known: EYCL1, EYCL2, and EYCL3.[9][10] These genes account for three phenotypic eye colors (brown, green, and blue) in humans.[3] Eye color usually stabilizes when an infant is around 6 months old




What was the joke about the black man goes to the white priest, furious that his wife must have been playing round - because she's just borne him a white child. 

So the priest expains "ahh Rastus, that's just an albino child"
"what's that" sez Rastus
"Well" sez the priest - see that herd of sheep in yon paddock - see how some are black and some are white?"

and before he can make the point, Rastus interrupts 
"Hey father - you don't tell anyone and I won't either ok?" 

PS I tend to have red eyes on the weekends for some reason. : 2twocents


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## 2020hindsight (16 March 2008)

ok - One fallacy would surely be that there is such a thing as the mating of two 100% purebreeds of any dog species. 

Note how vague the definition is when it comes to quantifying this "purity"..

... "from unmixed lineage" ?? - what does that really mean? how far back? - and what penalty are you paying in inbreeding for instance?



> The definition of a "purebred" in the dictionary is the following - "*bred for many generations from a member of a recognized breed or strain *n : a pedigreed animal of unmixed lineage". According to the AKC a purebred dog means, "the sire and dam of a dog are members of a recognized breed and that the ancestry of a dog consists of the same breed over many generations"




I mean Queen Elizabeth is a right mixture of "breeds" for starters...

and the only reason they plot her family tree only a few generations is that the tree gets a bit errr interwoven back there a bit ...  Victoria marrying her cousin etc.  Still - Lizzie is ok   Usually nature forgives and forgets it seems lol.


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## 2020hindsight (16 March 2008)

Speaking of inbreeding ... this website would have us believe that Liz in the 122nd generation down from "King Adam of Eden" 

http://www.potts.net.au/tree/misc/adam.html
The descendants of Adam to Queen Elizabeth II
There are of course many lines that could be followed from Adam to Elizabeth but this one is chosen to emphasize the line of David, King of Israel.  We follow Bible genealogy from Adam to Tamar, daughter of Zedekiah then we pick on Irish history to complete the lineage.

1.	Adam (4004-3074) 
2.	Seth (3874-2962) 
3.	Enos (3769-2864) 
4.	Cainan (3679-2769) 
5.	Mehalaleel (3609-2714) 
6.	Jarad (3544-2582) 
7.	Enoch (3382-3017) 
8.	Methuselah (3317-2348) 
9.	Lamech (3130-2353) 
10.	Noah (2948-1998) 
11.	Shem (2448-1848) 
12.	Arphxd (2341-2093) 
13.	Salah (2306-1873) 
14.	Heber (2276-1812) 
15.	Peleg (2242-2003) 
16.	Reu (2212-1973) 
17.	Serug (2180-1950) 
18.	Nahor (2150-1950) 
19.	Terah (2121-1916) 
20.	Abram (Abraham) 
21.	Isaac 
22.	Jacob (Israel) 
23.	Judah 
24.	Pharez 
25.	Ezram 
26.	Aram 
27.	Aminadab 
28.	Nashon 
29.	Salmon 
30.	Boaz 
31.	Obed 
32.	Jesse 
33.	David King Of Israel* (1009-) 
34.	Solomon King Of Israel (- 969) 
35.	Rehaboem King H. Of Judah 
36.	Abijah King H. Of Judah 
37.	Asa King H. Of Judah 
38.	Jehosophat King H. Of Judah 
39.	Jehoram King H. Of Judah 
40.	Ahaziah King H. Of Judah 
41.	Joash King H. Of Judah 
42.	Uzziah (Or Asariah) King H. Of Judah (- 753) 
43.	Jotham King H. Of Judah 
44.	Ahaz King H. Of Judah 
45.	Hezekiah King H. Of Judah 
46.	Amon King H. Of Judah 
47.	Josiah King H. Of Judah 
48.	Zedekiah King H. Of Judah 
49.	Tamar (Tea Tephi) Queen
50.	Ugaine The Great 
51.	Angus The Prolific 
52.	Fiachra King Of Scots 
53.	Fergus I King Of Scots 
54.	Manius King Of Scots 
55.	Dornadil King Of Scots 
56.	Reuthar King Of Scots 
57.	Edera King Of Scots 
58.	Corbred I King Of Scots 
59.	Corbred II King Of Scots 
60.	Modha Lamha King Of Scots 
61.	Conaire II King Of Scots 
62.	Corbrad Dalraida King Of Scots 
63.	Eochaid (Or Etholdus) King Of Scots 
64.	Athirco King Of Scots 
65.	Finfacher King Of Scots 
66.	Thrinklind King Of Scots 
67.	Fincormach King Of Scots 
68.	Romiach King Of Scots 
69.	Angus King Of Scots 
70.	Eochaidh King Of Scots 
71.	Erc (Or Erth) King Of Scots 
72.	Fergus The Great 
73.	Dangard King Of Scots 
74.	Govran King Of Scots 
75.	Aydan King Of Scots 
76.	Eugene King Of Scots 
77.	Donald 
78.	Ethdre King Of Scots 
79.	Ethafind King Of Scots 
80.	Ethas King Of Scots 
81.	Alpin King Of Scots 
82.	KENNETH I, K of Scots (- 859) 
83.	CONSTANTINE I, K of Scots (- 877) 
84.	DONALD II, K of Scots (- 900) 
85.	MALCOLM I, K of Scots (- 954) 
86.	KENNETH II, K of Scots (- 995) 
87.	MALCOLM II, K of Scots ( 954-1034) 
88.	Bethoc of Scotland 
89.	DUNCAN I, King Of Scots (-1040) 
90.	MALCOLM III, K of Scots (1031-1093) 
91.	Mary of Scotland (-1118) 
92.	MATILDA, C of Boulogne, Q Consort (1105-1152) 
93.	Mary, C of Boulogne (-1180) 
94.	Matilda of Boulogne (-1211) 
95.	Henry II, D of Brabant (1207-1248) 
96.	Henry III, D of Brabant (-1261) 
97.	MARIE of Brabant, Q Consort (1256-1321) 
98.	MARGARET of France, Q Consort (1275-1317) 
99.	Edmund, E of Kent (1301-1330) 
100.	Joan, L Wake (1328-1385) 
101.	Thomas de HOLAND, E of Kent KG (1350-1397) 
102.	Eleanor (I) HOLAND* (-1405) 
103.	Anne de MORTIMER (1390-1411) 
104.	Richard PLANTAGENET, D of York KG (1411-1460) 
105.	Edward IV King Of England (1442-1483) 
106.	Elizabeth of_York (1466-1503) 
107.	Margaret Tudor* (1489-1541) 
108.	James_V King of Scotland* (1512-1542) 
109.	Mary Stuart Queen of Scots* (1542-1587)** 
110.	James_I Stuart King of England (1566-1625) 
111.	Elizabeth Stuart (1596-1662) 
112.	Sophia Hanover (1630-1714) 
113.	George_I Hanover King of England (1660-1727) 
114.	George_II Hanover King of England (1683-1760) 
115.	Anne Hanover Princess Royal (1709-1759) 
116.	Caroline (1743-1787) 
117.	Henriette 
118.	Alexander of_Wurttemberg Duke (1804-1885) 
119.	Francis Duke of Teck (1837-1900) 
120.	Mary_of_Teck (May) Queen (1867-1953) 
121.	George_VI Windsor King of England (1895-1952) 
122.	Elizabeth_II Alexandra Mary Windsor Queen of England (1926-)


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## 2020hindsight (16 March 2008)

what was the first palindrome..  

"Madam I'm Adam " 

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=palindrome

seems to be a vague relevance for this stuff...


> Biochemistry. a region of DNA in which the sequence of nucleotides is identical with an inverted sequence in the complementary strand: GAATTC is a palindrome of CTTAAG




presumably is a tall blond man evolved in Oslo Norway ....
and another evolved in Bluff , NZ - but the difference was he was upside down - 
then you could say that they were pal·in·drom·i·cal·ly related 

(PS only Bluffing)


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## noirua (16 March 2008)

Post #22: That's all a great puzzle 2020 and infact I'm completely lost. Never before have I been so confused by a post. I think Queen Elizabeth and King George VI are really of German descent, but if you see men and woman as equals they may not be. There seem to be a lot of Scotsmen in there but a map dated 800 shows that most of what is Scotland now, including the capital Edinburgh, were in Northumbria, England, and part of Ireland was ruled as part of Scotland. Scotland was called Pictland.

( As we know, the true King of England is King Michael who lives in Australia. Therefore England is ruled by Australia and should have an Australian flag in the top left corner of their Union Jack.)
Don't take any notice of me though as others will see it as a great post, good luck - noi


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## 2020hindsight (16 March 2008)

noirua said:


> Post #22: That's all a great puzzle 2020 and infact I'm completely lost. Never before have I been so confused by a post.



noi - sorry if I confused you .
Post #22 was simpy the alleged linearity from Adam to Liz ... 
believe it or not. 

but you're right - I shouldn't have inferred that any of those descendants implied inbreeding (without further research anyway).  

The implication that we all come from Adam and Eve would of course mean that we are all of common genetic stock. 

PS I absolutely detest the term inbreeding (and we all have some probably -going  back 500 years?  100 years? whatever - knowingly or not).  

Just as I detest the term "racial superiority" 
Anyone who believes in "racial superiority" is suffering from a pigment of the imagination.


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## noirua (16 March 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> Just as I detest the term "racial superiority"
> Anyone who believes in "racial superiority" is suffering from a figment of the imagination.




I suppose it must be our ability to think.
 Do some dogs feel they are racially superior to other dogs? Or have the right to attack at a moments notice.
A small dog up the road, about 150mm high nipped a feller in the ankle, who was laying some paving, and he stands not that much shy of 2 metres high. Bombed straight at him and got him in one. He was going to complain but his workmates all fell about laughing.

What I'm getting at is, there are different types of inbuilt 
superiority and although people can think, at times they see things no better than the little dog.


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## julius (16 March 2008)

i know most of these from high school biology

here go's...

*T* F 1. Certain acquired characteristics, such as mechanical or mathematical skill, may be inherited.

T *F* 2. Identical twins are always of the same sex.

T *F* 3. Fraternal twins are more closely related to each other than to other children in a family. *fraternal = two eggs. same genetic relationship as regular siblings*

*T* F 4. The father determines the sex of a child. *sex is determined by the presence of the 'Y' chromosome...women don't have the 'Y' chromosome, so the father must provide it in order to conceive a male child*

*T* F 5. Each parent contributes half of a child’s genetic makeup. *half of the genotype, but not neccesarily half of the phenotype (physical characteristics)*

*T* F 6. Certain drugs or alcohol can cause birth defects in the fetus.

*T* F 7. Colorblindness is more common in males than in females.

*T* F 8. A person may transmit characteristics to offspring, which he, himself does not show.

T F 9. Certain hereditary characteristics are influenced by the blood. *I don't understand this.*

*T* F 10. Identical twins are more closely related than fraternal twins. 

T *F* 11. Certain inherited traits may be altered by the stars, moon, or planets early in development.

T F 12. Males are biologically stronger than females. *I don't understand this.*

*T* F 13. The tendency to produce twins may run in families. *hereditary*

T *F* 14. A craving for a food such as strawberries may cause a birthmark on an unborn child.

*T* F 15. Many of a person’s inherited traits are not apparent.

T *F* 16. The parent with the stronger “will-power” will contribute more to a child’s inheritance than the other parent.

T *F* 17. If a person loses a limb in an accident, it is likely that he or she will have a child with a missing limb. *haha*

T *F* 18. The attitude of the parents toward each other influences the emotional makeup of an unborn child.

*T* F 19. Children born to older parents usually lack the vitality of those born to younger parents. *depends on how you define vitality*

T *F* 20. The total number of male births exceeds female births each year.

T *F* 21. If a male mongrel dog mates with a pedigree (show quality) female dog, all future litters will have some characteristics from the mongrel male.


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## derty (16 March 2008)

I agree entirely with Julius, even for the 'don't understand" ones, except for No2, identical twins, as they result from the splitting of a single fertilised egg, must be the same sex.


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## 2020hindsight (16 March 2008)

2020 said:
			
		

> Anyone who believes in "racial superiority" is suffering from a pigment of the imagination



noi - I notice you "corrected" my post from "pigment" to "figment" - I'm guessing you have spellchecker or grammar check - trouble with spellchecker is it can't detect a pun 



			
				julius said:
			
		

> T F 21. If a male mongrel dog mates with a pedigree (show quality) female dog, all future litters will have some characteristics from the mongrel male.



I disgaree with you on a few julius - 
You've surely made a typo on Q2 for instance 

Q18 is probably true, (why else do pregnant women sing lullabies to their stomachs lol) but nothing to do with genetics 
and on Q19 and Q20.

I'm actually a bit confused about Q21 - not having any idea how "pedigree" a "pedigree" has to be.  Obviously"pedigree" is and always will be about "relatives".   (That's a pun btw)

To be honest, the entire question of "pedigree" gives me the creeps


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## 2020hindsight (16 March 2008)

noirua said:


> What I'm getting at is, there are different types of inbuilt superiority and although people can think, at times they see things no better than the little dog.




Trouble with little terriers (I'm told) is that they are the most likely to get into trouble with a snake.   Different traits for different dogs as you say.  

Next question ...   how the hell does this catepillar know to do this ... 
Attenborough - Caterpillars


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## julius (16 March 2008)

yes, Q2 is supposed to be True.

Also, according to Wikipedia male births are more common than female births...

hindsight, what don't you agree with ?


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## 2020hindsight (16 March 2008)

Julius , Q18 - Q21 . 

but Q18 , I'm just imagining that someone somewhere has done some research to prove that a baby's emotional wellbeing starts with a gentle atmosphere in the womb. (a guess in other words - and probably hard to interview the baby to find out  ). 

PS I'm an engineer m8 

PS My answers back there on post #6 btw.


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## 2020hindsight (16 March 2008)

I've been thinking of tackling the hard questions like 

cloning (animals? people?) ...

stem cell research (ditto) ....

even parents having siblings to save a child who would benefit from an organ donated by a sibling ....  

millions of tricky questions - even for students of ethics as I understand it. 

(I'm sure roland could think of some more  )

PS Dawkins is prepared (I think - might be misquoting him) to entertain PROVING the missing link by "making" another Lucy.


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## 2020hindsight (16 March 2008)

In the meantime, staying awy from controversy ...

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070111045225AA9i7iG&show=7



> *How are triplets and quadrulets etc made*?
> we all know how twins are born but is the "process" the same as it??
> 
> Identical: Identical triplets occur in almost the same way as identical twins, but instead of the egg dividing once, one of those halves divides again to create three genetically identical babies. In the rare cases of identical quads, both halves would divide to form 4 identical babies. The Dionne quints of Canada were identical quintuplets, the only set in the world.
> ...




How are dog litters made? anyone know? I'm guessing fraternal in general, but occasionally identical twins?

I certainly know this to be true :-



> Puppies in the same litter are only called brothers or sisters. A* female dog can breed with two males and actually have a litter with some of the pups from both dads*! Females have multiple eggs released when they are in heat, so any sperm can reach it from any male they mate with.


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## 2020hindsight (16 March 2008)

> A female dog can breed with two males and actually have a litter with some of the pups from both dads! Females have multiple eggs released when they are in heat, so any sperm can reach it from any male they mate with.



Friends has a purebred Lassie Collie who they mated with another purebred - 
and that night a giant brown Great Dane/Boxer broke into the laundry where she was kennelled.  

Sure enough there were two litters - one purebred (where they were hoping for 6)
- and 6 of these brown "also-rans" ( where they didn't want to know lol) - they were the funniest mixture / assortment of earshapes / short and long hair etc. 

We took one of the "also-rans" - I can tell you without hint of contradiction that he was a fantastic dog - used to count the kids asleep in their beds before he retired etc.  

- twice the dog that the purebred was (IMO) 
(but maybe I'm biassed lol)


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## noirua (17 March 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> noi - I notice you "corrected" my post from "pigment" to "figment" - I'm guessing you have spellchecker or grammar check - trouble with spellchecker is it can't detect a pun




Apologies for that 2020, I do love a "fig", good for move"ment".


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## noirua (17 March 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> Friends has a purebred Lassie Collie who they mated with another purebred -
> and that night a giant brown Great Dane/Boxer broke into the laundry where she was kennelled.




I'm bound to upset someone but to hell with it.
Some years ago I read an article where a woman had twins and the first was white and the second black, so I suppose it happens with humans as well.
Found it!  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...e_id=377839&in_page_id=1770&in_a_source=&ct=5
Maybe it didn't happen on this occasion?


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## 2020hindsight (17 March 2008)

But that story says it all doesn't it!  twins! - in a just world they would have an equal chance in life - Great story noi.


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## Julia (17 March 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> We took one of the "also-rans" - I can tell you without hint of contradiction that he was a fantastic dog - used to count the kids asleep in their beds before he retired etc.




How did you know that he counted the kids?


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## 2020hindsight (17 March 2008)

Julia said:


> How did you know that he counted the kids?



ahh - he used to go from room to room and almost nod his head as soon as he saw the kid in bed.  

btw Julia, (serious question) 
 what's your opinion of Shepherds and their hip problems . 
 Surely the answer is to introduce some "external genes" there somewhere. 

Personally I would be real cautious about getting a Shepherd.  - although I have a nephew who breeds them - spent many $, 000 for a male a while back - brought it out from Germany.


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## Julia (18 March 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> ahh - he used to go from room to room and almost nod his head as soon as he saw the kid in bed.
> 
> btw Julia, (serious question)
> what's your opinion of Shepherds and their hip problems .
> ...




A good Sire of an established German line can cost more than $60,000.


Yes, you are probably right about introducing some external genes.
Mongrels usually are much more hardy than pure bred dogs of any breed.

The hip problems so much talked about with Shepherds (and equally with other large dogs, e.g. Rottweilers, Great Danes etc.) are often not actually hip problems.  What often happens (and happened with one of my girls) is rather a neurological condition, similar to the effects of a stroke in humans, where the spinal cord fails to transmit the brain's message to move to the hind legs.  The dog is otherwise perfectly well and when it tries to move, does so with its usual enthusiasm but after a couple of steps collapses to the ground.  This is often interpreted as being a hip problem, but has actually nothing to do with hip displasia.

There is nothing that can be done about this (or at least there wasn't when my dog was so sadly affected).  It eventually affects bladder and bowel and the dog really has to be put down.

Some years ago we used to see one of the Queeen's Corgis which was obviously affected by this problem skating along on a sort of skateboard, where the dog propels itself along by the front legs which are usually completely unaffected.  I'd never subject a dog to that.  I could never see one of my Shepherds with such a loss of dignity.


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## wayneL (18 March 2008)

What you need is a mongrel bred breed... like my Jack Rascal 

Tough as an old boot.


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## 2020hindsight (19 March 2008)

Julia said:


> A good Sire of an established German line can cost more than $60,000.
> 
> Yes, you are probably right about introducing some external genes.
> Mongrels usually are much more hardy than pure bred dogs of any breed.



Julia , thanx - yep I think it cost $65K

speaking of nerves to the back legs, sad way to go. 

btw, these bokes have a real problem - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABoUWa_a4gQ

wayne (we agree for once) - I love mongels as well.


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## Wysiwyg (26 August 2008)

I caught a piece of a program about epigenetics yesterday and it was researched if gene characteristics are altered by environment, nutrition, stress etc. and grandchildren can manifest these changes when the switch is flicked.

Ghost in Your Genes was the documentary.

The mothers experiences during pregnancy appeared to bring on changes as well as being exposed to years of stories by the survivors of WW 2 holocaust appeared to bring about changes as the genes changed with  perceived survival issues.

Accident prone, nervous disorders, smoking addictions, eating disorders etc. are apparently linked to previous generations.  

An experiment was performed on rats by high dosing a female with crop spray and then observing the offspring over generations.The first generation manifested disease (can`t remember what they were) which in turn was replicated in three generations after the first rat dose.     

Wik says 



> In biology, the term epigenetics refers to changes in gene expression. These changes may remain through cell divisions for the remainder of the cell's life. Sometimes the changes last for multiple generations. However, there is no change in the underlying DNA sequence of the organism,[1] instead, environmental factors cause the organism's genes to behave (or "express themselves") differently.




So don`t be too hard on yourself folks.It`s not all your fault.


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