# Choosing a platform



## hutcho73 (13 August 2013)

Hi all Im just researching at the moment to find a platform for trading under $20k everyday to produce a modest income as I cannot return to work.  Australian shares only, with a platform that has smart software and if anything goes wrong with the trading company, my money is protected.  e-trade, Amscot discount trading or cmc? 
Advise appreciated


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## merlinnn (13 August 2013)

hutcho73 said:


> Hi all Im just researching at the moment to find a platform for trading under $20k everyday to produce a modest income as I cannot return to work.  Australian shares only, with a platform that has smart software and if anything goes wrong with the trading company, my money is protected.  e-trade, Amscot discount trading or cmc?
> Advise appreciated




Please validate this from our experience traders here as I'm a newb, however I would seriously look at IB brokers and possibly look to the US. For example for my small trades I am paying under $3.00 in and under $3.00 out for brokerage. I currently follow a bloke in Noosa called Radge whilst I'm learning. Not sure what type of income you hope to generate, but the Aussie brokers will suck some life from you particularly if you are trading regularly.

Good luck


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## hutcho73 (13 August 2013)

merlinnn said:


> Please validate this from our experience traders here as I'm a newb, however I would seriously look at IB brokers and possibly look to the US. For example for my small trades I am paying under $3.00 in and under $3.00 out for brokerage. I currently follow a bloke in Noosa called Radge whilst I'm learning. Not sure what type of income you hope to generate, but the Aussie brokers will suck some life from you particularly if you are trading regularly.
> 
> Good luck




Maybe the quickest way to lose your money


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## CanOz (13 August 2013)

hutcho73 said:


> Hi all Im just researching at the moment to find a platform for trading under $20k everyday to produce a modest income as I cannot return to work.  Australian shares only, with a platform that has smart software and if anything goes wrong with the trading company, my money is protected.  e-trade, Amscot discount trading or cmc?
> Advise appreciated




Interactive Brokers is arguably the cheapest, safest broker in the world.

If they go broke, god help us all.


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## hutcho73 (13 August 2013)

CanOz said:


> Interactive Brokers is arguably the cheapest, safest broker in the world.
> 
> If they go broke, god help us all.




I was advised to trade Australian shares only because of our dollar in OZ.  Especially for a learner.


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## CanOz (13 August 2013)

hutcho73 said:


> I was advised to trade Australian shares only because of our dollar in OZ.  Especially for a learner.




Yes, thats fine, IB supports Australian Shares.


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## skyQuake (13 August 2013)

IB is the cheapest and most reliable you'll find by a long shot


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## hutcho73 (13 August 2013)

skyQuake said:


> IB is the cheapest and most reliable you'll find by a long shot




Ive been reading a lot of threads and it seems there is good and bad in all platforms.
One thread mentioned the difference between IB and CMC that IB would lose customers money if they
went under (god help us) and CMC is regulated therefore if they went broke your money would be protected, but as you say the chances of that happening is pretty slim.  I recently had a go with EQ trader software and loved it. (pretty expensive 12k)  Trying to look for something that has great graphs and educational tools to give me the best idea of how this all works.:brille:


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## skyQuake (13 August 2013)

hutcho73 said:


> Ive been reading a lot of threads and it seems there is good and bad in all platforms.
> One thread mentioned the difference between IB and CMC that IB would lose customers money if they
> went under (god help us) and CMC is regulated therefore if they went broke your money would be protected, but as you say the chances of that happening is pretty slim.  I recently had a go with EQ trader software and loved it. (pretty expensive 12k)  Trying to look for something that has great graphs and educational tools to give me the best idea of how this all works.:brille:




IB is rated A- stable by S&P, which is a bit better than any wall st bank. Deposits also covered by LLoyds of London yadda yadda. They're pretty safe.
https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=2334

CMC is a CFD provider, so you'd face counterparty risk and all that.

EQ trader looks heaps dodgy. Wat is it? Platform? Broker? Advisory Service?


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## Trembling Hand (13 August 2013)

hutcho73 said:


> Ive been reading a lot of threads and it seems there is good and bad in all platforms.
> One thread mentioned the difference between IB and CMC that IB would lose customers money if they
> went under (god help us) and CMC is regulated therefore if they went broke your money would be protected, but as you say the chances of that happening is pretty slim.  I recently had a go with EQ trader software and loved it. (pretty expensive 12k)  Trying to look for something that has great graphs and educational tools to give me the best idea of how this all works.:brille:




IB has insurance against your funds to $100,000 I think. Depending on what account type you have with CMC thats not protected. No idea what "regulated" means or why that would give you protection. Plenty of brokers have gone broke recently and its been a mess for clients. 

Trading 20K, especially as a newbie, will get you nowhere but more likely 10K before you know it.


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## hutcho73 (13 August 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> IB has insurance against your funds to $100,000 I think. Depending on what account type you have with CMC thats not protected. No idea what "regulated" means or why that would give you protection. Plenty of brokers have gone broke recently and its been a mess for clients.
> 
> Trading 20K, especially as a newbie, will get you nowhere but more likely 10K before you know it.




Eq trader is a company from gold coast that created a computer programme to give you live trading information and how to predict spikes in the market (for the everyday mums and dads to create waelth) you cant trade from it directly but its an educational tool to help you trade, I couldn't find much on it on the net.  I just found another trading platform, Amscot discount  trading .  Need to investigate more on that as not interested in cmc due to poor customer service.  Commsec way too expensive.  Sounds like IB is the favourite:afro:


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## skyQuake (13 August 2013)

12k sounds ridiculously expensive. 

Wont be the first scam to operate out of that very address at the gold coat lol


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## stockGURU (14 August 2013)

skyQuake said:


> 12k sounds ridiculously expensive.
> 
> Wont be the first scam to operate out of that very address at the gold coat lol




The same people run another shady operation called Fortune Plus: https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26276

There is also a thread here at ASF about EQ Trading: https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21234


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## JLM Financial (14 August 2013)

Have a look at IG. It's definitely the top CFD provider in Australia. All the money held by IG is placed into a regulated trust account in a top tier Australian bank so even if they go under, your money is still safe. Basically, they don't use any client funds in their business so IG is very reliable in regards to client money protection.

Recently, ASIC conducted a thematic review with a focus on CFD providers and how they handle client money. There were some firms that had to undergo an enforced undertaking. IG had a clean bill of health so it shows they do demonstrate very good industry practice. Definitely a platform I would recommend.

Also, IB only offers CFD's for the top 200 ASX shares. Margins are also quite strict at 4:1. In comparison, you can trade CFD's from all over the world with 20:1 leverage. That way, you'll also be less likely to be margin-called when you place multiple trades.


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## Trembling Hand (14 August 2013)

JLM Financial said:


> Also, IB only offers CFD's for the top 200 ASX shares. Margins are also quite strict at 4:1. In comparison, you can trade CFD's from all over the world with 20:1 leverage. That way, you'll also be less likely to be margin-called when you place multiple trades.




what totally crap advice. 

- - - Updated - - -



hutcho73 said:


> Eq trader is a company from gold coast that created a computer programme to give you live trading information and how to predict spikes in the market *(for the everyday mums and dads to create wealth)*




You clearly forgot the bit in blue



> (for the everyday mums and dads to create wealth *for the sellers of snake oil*)




And if you want to know who that is,




http://successforyou.com.au/about-nuccia.html


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## tech/a (14 August 2013)

*



			what totally crap advice
		
Click to expand...


*
*+1.*


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## captain black (14 August 2013)

JLM Financial said:


> All the money held by IG is placed into a regulated trust account in a top tier Australian bank so even if they go under, your money is still safe.




Not entirely. One issue to come out of the court orders from the administration of MFGA was that administrators of the company are able to access client money held in trust accounts to pay for any expenses in seeking court orders regarding the distribution of those funds. In the case of MFGA the clients paid the court costs of parties who were attempting to claim ownership of client funds. IG Markets is a different business model to MFGA however in the event of an insolvency they'll be governed by the same laws. 



> The recent New South Wales Supreme Court (Court) decision in In re MF Global Australia Ltd (in liq) No 2 [2012] NSWSC 1426 (23 November 2012) confirms that liquidators who properly incur costs and expenses in seeking court directions regarding the distribution of trust property and, in recovering such property, will generally be able to recover their relevant remuneration, costs and expenses from that trust property.




http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=358bae31-5581-421f-a680-170b97a77c50


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## Chris.M (14 August 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> IB has insurance against your funds to $100,000 I think.




Are you referring the account protection mentioned here? https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=ibgStrength&p=acc

It looks to be a bit more than $100,000.

Here is a SIPC brochure: http://www.sipc.org/Portals/0/PDF/HSPY_English_2011.pdf

Can anyone explain how this works?


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## Gringotts Bank (14 August 2013)

Some facts:  CMC is a well known discount stockbroker as well as CFD provider.  They are backed by Bank West, a division of CBA, which has a high security rating.  It has low brokerage and a stable, easy-to-use platform.  It consistently wins best broker awards on Canstar.  Downside is it has very poor customer service, but that's pretty standard amongst brokers nowadays.  The only broker I've found with good customer service is Bell Direct,

IB has a huge thread on ASF entitled "IB troubleshooting".  Have a read of that before you decide what is stable and what's not.


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## Trembling Hand (14 August 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> IB has a huge thread on ASF entitled "IB troubleshooting".  Have a read of that before you decide what is stable and what's not.




GB the reason IB has that thread is the amount of products and huge exchanges available. It has nothing to do with stable or not it by its nature is quite powerful and therefore complex.

- - - Updated - - -



Chris.M said:


> Are you referring the account protection mentioned here? https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=ibgStrength&p=acc
> 
> It looks to be a bit more than $100,000.
> 
> ...




Didn't the two links you provided explain it?


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## Chris.M (14 August 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> Didn't the two links you provided explain it?



If I have understood it correctly, It seems to me that you are protected fairly well. Am I missing something?


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## Trembling Hand (14 August 2013)

Chris.M said:


> If I have understood it correctly, It seems to me that you are protected fairly well. Am I missing something?




That is my conclusion as well. And probably the best bit is it is a listed company so its health will be closely tracked to the share price. If that starts to take take ya money out. I have it on my main watch list.

http://au.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=IBKR&t=2y&l=on&z=l&q=l&c=


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## Chris.M (14 August 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> That is my conclusion as well.



Thanks



Trembling Hand said:


> And probably the best bit is it is a listed company so its health will be closely tracked to the share price. If that starts to take take ya money out. I have it on my main watch list.
> 
> http://au.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=IBKR&t=2y&l=on&z=l&q=l&c=



Clever. Good idea.


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## tech/a (14 August 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> That is my conclusion as well. And probably the best bit is it is a listed company so its health will be closely tracked to the share price. If that starts to take take ya money out. I have it on my main watch list.
> 
> http://au.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=IBKR&t=2y&l=on&z=l&q=l&c=




Good idea.

The other thing is that in a crisis situation funds would be frozen.
Insurance is only as good as the health of the insurance company.
In a massive claim that may not be that good.

I don't think you can be 100% safe in anything.
But it would be wise to take out profits and not accumulate.

I have an instruction for deposits when account reaches X---to me so its a withdrawal!


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## captain black (14 August 2013)

There's a good article on Brent Penfold's site about SIPC protection and how to set up an IB account if you're a futures trader. The link is about half way down the page and is titled " Why Australian Futures Clients Are Unsecured Creditors". (a PDF file will open)

http://www.indextrader.com.au/Brokers_Who_Can_Help.asp


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## skyQuake (14 August 2013)

Speaking of crisis situations, I believe most aussie CFD providers (ie IG and CMC) co-mingle client funds together.
So if a big client were unable to meet obligations, and the provider also goes belly up, clients would get screwed.

Though imo, anyone sufficiently big will be worth their salt and won't have a huge CFD acct.


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## Chris.M (14 August 2013)

tech/a said:


> Good idea.
> 
> The other thing is that in a crisis situation funds would be frozen.
> Insurance is only as good as the health of the insurance company.
> ...



Indeed, good idea.



captain black said:


> There's a good article on Brent Penfold's site about SIPC protection and how to set up an IB account if you're a futures trader. The link is about half way down the page and is titled " Why Australian Futures Clients Are Unsecured Creditors". (a PDF file will open)
> 
> http://www.indextrader.com.au/Brokers_Who_Can_Help.asp



Wow, extremely helpful.


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## captain black (14 August 2013)

skyQuake said:


> Speaking of crisis situations, I believe most aussie CFD providers (ie IG and CMC) co-mingle client funds together.
> So if a big client were unable to meet obligations, and the provider also goes belly up, clients would get screwed.




Client funds are "pooled" in futures and FX provider accounts in Australia as well, not only CFD accounts. In the case of Sonray there were clients who were "white label" Interactive Brokers clients who originally had their funds pooled with other clients although I see that they are now able to go through a tracing exercise to determine if their funds were co-mingled with other clients or were maintained in individual segregated accounts with IB.

The Sonray administration has now been going for over 3 years.


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## hutcho73 (14 August 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> GB the reason IB has that thread is the amount of products and huge exchanges available. It has nothing to do with stable or not it by its nature is quite powerful and therefore complex.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> ...




MMMM EQ trader software was very convincing, spend 2 hours a day to create your weekly income etc etc.They got $100 deposit from me but I backed out with not enough info on their background, thanks for the info on these guys.
Reading these are pretty interesting as I have some money to invest and don't want to start off with the worst platform afterall, they could possibly make or break you. IG was a bit of a first pic until I read some very disturbing reviews.  There are some great reviews on Amscot discount trading if your trading everyday, nothing negative and great customer service.


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## hutcho73 (14 August 2013)

stockGURU said:


> The same people run another shady operation called Fortune Plus: https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26276
> 
> There is also a thread here at ASF about EQ Trading: https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21234




wow what an eye opener, yknow I searched the net for weeks looking for some reviews on these guys, Thankyou very helpful.  I know I may be out of my league but surely with the right formular  and platform , I can provide an income for my family


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## cynic (14 August 2013)

JLM Financial said:


> Have a look at IG. It's definitely the top CFD provider in Australia. All the money held by IG is placed into a regulated trust account in a top tier Australian bank so even if they go under, your money is still safe. Basically, they don't use any client funds in their business so IG is very reliable in regards to client money protection.
> 
> Recently, ASIC conducted a thematic review with a focus on CFD providers and how they handle client money. There were some firms that had to undergo an enforced undertaking. IG had a clean bill of health so it shows they do demonstrate very good industry practice. Definitely a platform I would recommend.
> 
> Also, IB only offers CFD's for the top 200 ASX shares. Margins are also quite strict at 4:1. In comparison, you can trade CFD's from all over the world with 20:1 leverage. That way, you'll also be less likely to be margin-called when you place multiple trades.






			
				http://jlmfinancial.com.au/wp-content/uploads/JLM-FSG.pdf said:
			
		

> JLM Financial Pty Ltd receives a commission and rebates from IG Markets. The exact amount varies based on trading volume, account size, instruments traded and execution method. A copy of the commission schedule is emailed to you when your account is opened.




http://jlmfinancial.com.au/wp-content/uploads/JLM-FSG.pdf

Given that the above quoted paragraph appears in JLM's Financial Services Guide, would anyone care to hazard a guess at JLM's capacity (or lack thereof) for impartiality when recommending IG Markets?


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## AlterEgo (15 August 2013)

hutcho73 said:


> I know I may be out of my league but surely with the right formular  and platform , I can provide an income for my family




Sorry, but you have no hope in the world of creating a family income with a $20K account! No off-the-shelf formula that you buy will be able to do that for you, no matter what their claims are.


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## tech/a (15 August 2013)

AlterEgo said:


> Sorry, but you have no hope in the world of creating a family income with a $20K account! No off-the-shelf formula that you buy will be able to do that for you, no matter what their claims are.




+1

If stock trading Id say $200k
Futures you could do with $100k

But in both cases you'd need to be good.

If you want to earn $80K after tax you'll need to produce around $160K profit.


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## Shaker (15 August 2013)

tech/a said:


> +1
> 
> If stock trading Id say $200k
> Futures you could do with $100k
> ...





Hi Tech/A

Good post . I do think that he is indicating that by income he doesn't mean sole income.
I guess he can correct me if I assumed wrong

Shaker


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## skc (15 August 2013)

cynic said:


> http://jlmfinancial.com.au/wp-content/uploads/JLM-FSG.pdf
> 
> Given that the above quoted paragraph appears in JLM's Financial Services Guide, would anyone care to hazard a guess at JLM's capacity (or lack thereof) for impartiality when recommending IG Markets?




No. But nothing JLM said about IG is false. If one must trade CFD then I'd agree IG is the best available in terms of being able to manage counterparty risks.

Part of the reason that clients of MF Global took so long to get their money back is because most CFD brokers use client money to hedge their positions - which means that money is not in MFG's account when the $hit hit the fan. IG claims that it doesn't use client money for hedging so in theory any bankruptcy may be resolved more quickly (but probably will still take a long time as the administrator milks the cash cow).

BTW the thread starter never mentioned that he wants to trade CFDs. I guess he's using CMC as equity broker as opposed to their CFD operations.



Trembling Hand said:


> That is my conclusion as well. And probably the best bit is it is a listed company so its health will be closely tracked to the share price. If that starts to take take ya money out. I have it on my main watch list.
> 
> http://au.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=IBKR&t=2y&l=on&z=l&q=l&c=




Yes. That's how I got 90% of my money out of MF Global before it went totally bust.

IG is also a listed company in London (Code is IGG) and that's why they are up there when it comes to managing counterparty risks.


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## skc (15 August 2013)

hutcho73 said:


> Eq trader is a company from gold coast that created a computer programme to give you live trading information and how to predict spikes in the market (for the everyday mums and dads to create waelth) you cant trade from it directly but its an educational tool to help you trade, I couldn't find much on it on the net.  I just found another trading platform, Amscot discount  trading .  Need to investigate more on that as not interested in cmc due to poor customer service.  Commsec way too expensive.  Sounds like IB is the favourite:afro:




Hutcho, 

There's no such thing as easy money in the market, and that's the simplest way to determine who's a scam and who's legit. If someone is trying to sell you a product/service by saying trading is easy - probability is that they are just scamming you. If someone tells you trading involves a lot of learning and hardwork - then they are more likely to be legit. That's not to say you'd make money from the market but it's sure better than being scammed.

BTW if you want to feed a family trading a $20k account, your family probably can't live anywhere more expensive than say, Phillipines.


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## sails (15 August 2013)

Shaker said:


> Hi Tech/A
> 
> Good post . I do think that he is indicating that by income he doesn't mean sole income.
> I guess he can correct me if I assumed wrong
> ...





I think the OP might be looking at this as sole income as he said in the opening post that he can't return to work.  Pretty tough situation especially as a newbie trader and a small trading account.


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## CanOz (15 August 2013)

sails said:


> I think the OP might be looking at this as sole income as he said in the opening post that he can't return to work.  Pretty tough situation especially as a newbie trader and a small trading account.




Very difficult for a trader to trade under that pressure


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## Shaker (15 August 2013)

Shaker said:


> Hi Tech/A
> 
> Good post . I do think that he is indicating that by income he doesn't mean sole income.
> I guess he can correct me if I assumed wrong
> ...




Just read Chris's intro. I am wrong he does wish to earn sole income with 20k......Good Luck


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## albaby (15 August 2013)

hutcho73 said:


> Hi all Im just researching at the moment to find a platform for trading under $20k everyday to produce a modest income as I cannot return to work.  Australian shares only, with a platform that has smart software and if anything goes wrong with the trading company, my money is protected.  e-trade, Amscot discount trading or cmc?
> Advise appreciated



Hutcho73,most of the replies you have seen on this thread have been from the pros,all are well intentioned.All have huge amounts of screen time,years of experience,these are the people you will be up against,with 20k you can't afford to lose, forget it.Al


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## hutcho73 (19 August 2013)

albaby said:


> Hutcho73,most of the replies you have seen on this thread have been from the pros,all are well intentioned.All have huge amounts of screen time,years of experience,these are the people you will be up against,with 20k you can't afford to lose, forget it.Al





Thanks guys for the advise, I do really appreciate it I'm looking at generating 300 to 400 per week if all goes well, and no I cant return to work unfortunately but I would love to.  This is totally different work genre I am used to and yes will be primary source of income.  I have been researching shares for a while and looking at different things and have learnt a lot from trading platforms on this site.  Today I'm going to paper trade with IB or Amscot,.  I'm not out for big money, just something to replace my modest income.  I may come into some bigger money down the track from another source so that's why I'm just wetting my feet as you say to see if I can get it right, or get lucky.  If I don't give it a go, we will never know, watch this space


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## CanOz (19 August 2013)

I think many of the more experienced equity traders, including myself would say your first goal should be

"not to lose money"


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## tech/a (19 August 2013)

Oh my

Such aspirations.


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## Trembling Hand (19 August 2013)

hutcho73 said:


> Thanks guys for the advise, I do really appreciate it I'm looking at generating 300 to 400 per week if all goes well,




400/20000 * 100 = 2% per week return on capital. (assuming you never have a drawdown)

Would/could you describe your trading skills as elite?? Because thats where that sits!


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## hutcho73 (21 August 2013)

merlinnn said:


> Please validate this from our experience traders here as I'm a newb, however I would seriously look at IB brokers and possibly look to the US. For example for my small trades I am paying under $3.00 in and under $3.00 out for brokerage. I currently follow a bloke in Noosa called Radge whilst I'm learning. Not sure what type of income you hope to generate, but the Aussie brokers will suck some life from you particularly if you are trading regularly.
> 
> Good luck




Thankyou Merlinn, your advise was very helpful and now understand what you mean by using a cheaper broker for everyday trading, .  My accountant told me to use commsec and yes that would suck the life out of my profits. Cheers and thankyou once again


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