# Time for a new Aussie flag?



## Uncle Festivus (13 August 2007)

I think it's about time we removed the Union Jack from the Aussie flag, & replaced it with something more relevant, what do you think?

Time for a new flag?


The _Union Jack_ (also known as the _Union Flag_) in the upper hoist quadrant or first quarter of the Australian flag denotes Australia's historical links with Britain. The Union Jack itself is a composite flag symbolizing the union of the historical components of the United Kingdom. It is composed of intersecting and overlayed red and white vertical and diagonal crosses on blue and white backgrounds:


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## wayneL (13 August 2007)




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## Uncle Festivus (13 August 2007)

Hey, don't we just get added as an extra star - the 51st state?


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## noirua (13 August 2007)

Why not replace the union jack with the "stars and Stripes" as America is the only country capable of coming to the aid of Australasia. Site a very big US Base up near Darwin.


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## wayneL (13 August 2007)

noirua said:


> Why not replace the union jack with the "stars and Stripes" as America is the only country capable of coming to the aid of Australasia. Site a very big US Base up near Darwin.








Hey, no prize for second go!! :


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## mime (13 August 2007)

lol it would be political suercide if any polly wanted to change the flag


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## It's Snake Pliskin (13 August 2007)

I am proud of our link to Britain. 

It could the rising sun flag still if we didn't prevail back in 45. And trust me, if that were the case you would be very shocked at the difference of life. For the worse that is.


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## Duckman#72 (13 August 2007)

It's Snake Pliskin said:


> I am proud of our link to Britain.
> 
> It could the rising sun flag still if we didn't prevail back in 45. And trust me, if that were the case you would be very shocked at the difference of life. For the worse that is.




So am I.

Whether we like it or not......it is in our makeup. It is who we are. Some people refute that with a passion. But the fact is historically we have very strong links with Britain. 

Which leads me to my next point. What will change achieve? You can take the Union Jack out of the flag but you can never break the link. We are the country we are today because of that history. For good or for bad.

I don't know about other people but when I see the Australian Flag flying.........I see an *Australian Flag.* Not a Union Jack tossed together with a Southern Cross. 

I've always been slightly perplexed at those people that seem to take it as a personal affront to see the Union Jack up there. Are you really that ashamed of the country's first 200 years? If so, then I think you need more help than just a flag makeover. People say "''it will help us move on. Show ourselves as an independent country." Will it really?

You can go out and buy a new suit, but it ain't going to look any better on you than the old one unless you lose some baggage. 

Cheers

Duckman


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## Knobby22 (13 August 2007)

Well I see a flag that shows to the world that we are still a dominion of GBR.

Does Mexico have a Spanish flag in the corner?
Does Indonesia have a Dutch flag in the corner?

It is embarassing to me and I am a 6th generation Australian on all sides. 

Hate to think what new immigrants think? What sort of half arsed country are we? 

There is a good chance that the Union may break up with Scotland going on its own. How silly will we look then?

And don't give me the bull that the diggers fought under it. They fought under the British flag.


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## BIG BWACULL (13 August 2007)

Maybe we could make a fresh start and stand on our own feet (maybe as time went on we could add to this flag with all the cultures that made and make up what/who we are to be AUSTRALIAN 
(no we will not surrender who we are lol)


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## theasxgorilla (13 August 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> I don't know about other people but when I see the Australian Flag flying.........I see an *Australian Flag.* Not a Union Jack tossed together with a Southern Cross.




I think I'd be more bothered if I was a Kiwi...seeing an Aussie flag with the stars painted red


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## Buster (13 August 2007)

Hey Knobby,



Knobby22 said:


> Well I see a flag that shows to the world that we are still a dominion of GBR.
> 
> Does Mexico have a Spanish flag in the corner?
> Does Indonesia have a Dutch flag in the corner?.




Yeah, lets be like Mexico and Indonesia...    You know I couldn't for the life of me find the little wink or rolls eyes emoticons anywhere in your post, surely you forgot to click them in your haste to post..



Knobby22 said:


> It is embarrassing to me and I am a 6th generation Australian on all sides.




Ha, this ol' chestnut is normally reserved for the politicians to roll out when they want to distract everybody from something dodgy they are implementing.. What on earth have you got to be embarrassed about Knobby??  OK OK, seemingly you have a lot to be embarrassed about, particularly if the upper left hand corner of our flag does it for you, however, what in relation to our flag causes you embarrassment?? 



Knobby22 said:


> Hate to think what new immigrants think? What sort of half arsed country are we?




I'm tipping they don't think we have a half arsed country at all, else why immigrate.. have you ever even been overseas Knobby??



Knobby22 said:


> There is a good chance that the Union may break up with Scotland going on its own. How silly will we look then?.




Uhhhmmm.. Silly?? It's part of our history mate.. deal with it..



Knobby22 said:


> And don't give me the bull that the diggers fought under it. They fought under the British flag.




Oh, so I'm dismissed from this line of argument simply because you say it's bull?? I'm sure there would be many at the RSL that would enjoy discussing this with you.. BTW what Flag have you fought under, I'd assume you might have an entirely different opinion if you'd fought under the Aussie Flag..

I'm sure there are many many more pressing issues to deal with than changing the flag.. it'd be interesting actually to find out just how much it would cost as an exercise.. I seem to remember when they changed 'Women of the Royal Australian Navy' (WRAN) some 15 to 20 years ago it cost somewhere in the order of 60 Million to change uniform emblems, references in publications etc etc.. and thats an extremely small change in comparison..

Regards,

Buster.


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## doctorj (13 August 2007)

BIG BWACULL said:


> Maybe we could make a fresh start and stand on our own feet (maybe as time went on we could add to this flag with all the cultures that made and make up what/who we are to be AUSTRALIAN
> (no we will not surrender who we are lol)



I think the French already use that as their unofficial flag...


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## Knobby22 (14 August 2007)

Buster said:


> Hey Knobby,
> 
> Uhhhmmm.. Silly?? It's part of our history mate.. deal with it..
> 
> Buster.




Buster

The history argument is the silliest.
If Australia is around for another 300 years, do we still have a British flag in our corner? What about 1000 years? When do we get big enough to get our own flag? If GBR does break up do we keep it as a remembrance?

And believe it or not, there are many RSL members who would like a new flag. 
They fought for Australia and simply put Australia is not properly represented in the present flag. 

How do you think the present troops feel when they have to explain to their USA allies that they are not part of Britain and the fact their flag is in the corner is just a fact of history. Imagine how they feel when they have to parade next to British troops. The British must think their flag is cute. I reckon Wayne must think it is funny but he is too many manners to say so.

I'm a patriot. I feel no special loyalty to Britain. I am glad they gave us our political and legal system and don't even mind having the Queen as our figurehead leader but it is time to have an inclusive flag that repersents Australia.  

Do you have British parents or something? 
Didn't you find it strange that when the flag raisings occurred in the Commonwealth Games, every other country has got rid of the British flag in the corner except protectorates and New Zealand? It is embarassing to me, sorry.


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## Broadside (14 August 2007)

No point changing the flag until we become a republic in another ten years or so.


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## Uncle Festivus (14 August 2007)

The fact is, we have very little to do with the union anymore, apart from beating them at sport etc. 
Every so often one of those current affairs programs goes out on the street for an 'in depth report' on issues such as this, where they ask the average citizen if we should change our flag. Apon being presented with a flag of New Zealand, a few respondants say they don't mind 'our' flag as it is, even though they are looking at a new Zealand flag.

If you like the Union Jack in the corner of 'our' flag then you are a monarchist, and we all know what that entails eg the side show called the royal family staring Prince Charles & Camilla. Why would you want to be associated with that mob of inbreds?


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## numbercruncher (14 August 2007)

Uncle Festivus said:


> The fact is, we have very little to do with the union anymore, apart from beating them at sport etc.
> Every so often one of those current affairs programs goes out on the street for an 'in depth report' on issues such as this, where they ask the average citizen if we should change our flag. Apon being presented with a flag of New Zealand, a few respondants say they don't mind 'our' flag as it is, even though they are looking at a new Zealand flag.
> 
> If you like the Union Jack in the corner of 'our' flag then you are a monarchist, and we all know what that entails eg the side show called the royal family staring Prince Charles & Camilla. Why would you want to be associated with that mob of inbreds?




The fact is the majority of Australians can trace there ancestoral origins to Scots , Irish , English and thats exactly what the Union jack represents is that Union.

Your claim that if people like the union jack on our flag makes them a Monarchist is complete rubbish, its the Equivalent of people arguing that if you dont like the Flag how it is then you must be anti people of Irish, Scottish or English descent or even anti Australian .....

People should just accept it for what it is representing a Union of all peoples not just those of the British isles.

If you dont like the Flag of Australia, just fly your states flag.

Could of easily been a different History, could of been flying a French or Dutch or any old flag had not the Brits rocked up first.

Its one of those things that can be summed up as, leave well enough alone.

I could support (tasteful) altering the flag but i dont see any need to remove the jack.


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## Uncle Festivus (14 August 2007)

numbercruncher said:


> The fact is the majority of Australians can trace there ancestoral origins to Scots , Irish , English and thats exactly what the Union jack represents is that Union.
> 
> Your claim that if people like the union jack on our flag makes them a Monarchist is complete rubbish, its the Equivalent of people arguing that if you dont like the Flag how it is then you must be anti people of Irish, Scottish or English descent or even anti Australian .....




Hardly. I am Australian. I have Irish & English heretage. I don't like the UJ on the flag but that doesn't mean I'm anti British - how did you extrapolate that?



> People should just accept it for what it is representing a Union of all peoples not just those of the British isles.




Wrong.

The *Union Flag* (also known as the *Union Jack*) is the national flag of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Historically, the flag has been used throughout the former British Empire. It still retains an official or semi-official status in many Commonwealth Realms.

So we are still officially part of the British empire and a realm of the British empire.

That's what it means, so if you agree with that you are a monarchist - simple really.

It is becoming irrelevant in our so called multicultural country.


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## numbercruncher (14 August 2007)

Uncle Festivus said:


> Hardly. I am Australian. I have Irish & English heretage. I don't like the UJ on the flag but that doesn't mean I'm anti British - how did you extrapolate that?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Nice twist Uncle, I didnt say that your Anti British i demonstrated your argument is flawed because YOU said that people who support the Australian flag must be Monarchists, which is a load of baloney.

I know what the origins of the jack are, i was trying to say in this modern day why cant people view it as union of all people regardless of there ethnic origin.

What are you proposing whacking a miniture of every flag in the world on ours to show we have a good mix or something .... I personally couldnt care less if the flag was modernised or something to but complete removal of the jack is unacceptable, its a fine mix of the cross of Scotland, England and Ireland. And i like millions of Aussies happen to be proud of my ancestoral origins.

Anyway not even worth discussing all the anti Australian flag crowd wont get there way short of winning a civil war or public referendum, either way your vastly outnumbered. *flex*


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## Uncle Festivus (14 August 2007)

numbercruncher said:


> Nice twist Uncle, I didnt say that your Anti British i demonstrated your argument is flawed because YOU said that people who support the Australian flag must be Monarchists, which is a load of baloney.
> 
> I know what the origins of the jack are, i was trying to say in this modern day why cant people view it as union of all people regardless of there ethnic origin.
> 
> ...




Sounds like you are British? You've missed the point again. I said that people who wanted the UJ on our flag were/are monarchists - there is a big dfference. Miniature flags .... huh?? 

Why is the removeal of the UJ unacceptable? 

What it proclaims loud & clear to the rest of the world is that we are still a dependency of Britain, even though we are an independant entity.

True Australians are the majority I'm afraid. We Australians just don't like a flag of another country on our flag. Simple. There is no valid argument for the UJ on our Australian flag. It is very un-Australian.

Still waiting for a valid reason to have the flag of another country on our flag.

Yes, a public referedum, that would be interesting - true Australians can have their say. Though the monarchists would probably derail it like the Republic issue ie John Menzies Howard.


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## BIG BWACULL (14 August 2007)

Here's a start and we can keep adding as time goes on:


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## noirua (14 August 2007)

I've got a redundant flag for you. One of my relatives was on a committee that designed a flag for the Confederacy in the USA. Unfortunately they lost the war, so I suppose it would fit well as a new Australian Flag.

Here is the flag. Its quite bright and flashy and should go well with the Aussie spirit:  http://www.confederateflags.org/states/FOTClouisiana.htm


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## MS+Tradesim (14 August 2007)

Festivus wrote:



> If you like the Union Jack in the corner of 'our' flag then you are a monarchist, and we all know what that entails eg the side show called the royal family staring Prince Charles & Camilla.




What a weird thing to say. I am all for a republic. I think the monarchy is an outdated institution of another culture. But I love our flag and don't want to see it changed. It is beautiful.



> True Australians are the majority I'm afraid. We Australians just don't like a flag of another country on our flag.




What a completely illogical thing to say. I was born 3rd gen Australian. I am an Australian and I have no problem with the UJ on our flag. Don't claim Australian-ship rests on how one feels about the flag. That is the most emotive, irrational reason I've ever seen advanced as an excuse to change. I could just as easily claim real Australians love our flag and those who don't are closet commies. Get real!


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## Knobby22 (14 August 2007)

If we are going to have one countries flag on our flag why don't we have three?

Great Britain for our past.
USA for our present.
China for our future (and to suck up to them).

Lets put the aboriginal flag on also and we have a unique flag showing to the world we lack identity as a country.


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## YELNATS (14 August 2007)

Uncle Festivus said:


> I think it's about time we removed the Union Jack from the Aussie flag, & replaced it with something more relevant, what do you think?
> 
> Time for a new flag?




It's been time for a long time.

Personally, I would like to see the Union Jack removed and not replaced with anything. The stars would be repositioned in the centre of the flag using the same colours, blue and white.

This would be a dramatic, simple and exciting statement of our nationhood!
Regards YN.


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## numbercruncher (14 August 2007)

Uncle Festivus said:


> Sounds like you are British?






That would be a negative to that Uncle. But nice try.

But it sounds like youve swallowed enough propaganda to hate your own ancestoral origins ...

Next you and the anti Australia crew will want to rename Australia something else seen as Flinders who first suggested the name was British.

I mean if you cant handle the British origins of our flag how on earth could you handle the British origins of our fine countrys name ?

Anyway i just think your logic is seriously flawed and if it was ever enacted all it would do is divide Australians.


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## Uncle Festivus (14 August 2007)

MS+Tradesim said:


> Festivus wrote:
> 
> What a weird thing to say. I am all for a republic. I think the monarchy is an outdated institution of another culture. But I love our flag and don't want to see it changed. It is beautiful.
> 
> What a completely illogical thing to say. I was born 3rd gen Australian. I am an Australian and I have no problem with the UJ on our flag. Don't claim Australian-ship rests on how one feels about the flag. That is the most emotive, irrational reason I've ever seen advanced as an excuse to change. I could just as easily claim real Australians love our flag and those who don't are closet commies. Get real!





Yes, that's exactly what it is - weird & illogical to have the flag of another country on a modern & independant countries flag. It's 2007, not 1777. Let go of your insecurities.


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## Knobby22 (14 August 2007)

"But it sounds like youve swallowed enough propaganda to hate your own ancestoral origins ..."



We don't hate England. I like England and Scotland and Wales and Ireland! We just don't want their flag on our flag.
BBC tv is the best.


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## MS+Tradesim (14 August 2007)

Uncle Festivus said:


> Yes, that's exactly what it is - weird & illogical to have the flag of another country on a modern & independant countries flag. It's 2007, not 1777. Let go of your insecurities.




Is that really the best reply you can come up with? What is this? A schoolyard?..... "I know you are so what am I". It is apparent that as a distinct lack of rational thought is being employed here then there is no point continuing.


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## Uncle Festivus (14 August 2007)

MS+Tradesim said:


> Is that really the best reply you can come up with? What is this? A schoolyard?..... "I know you are so what am I". It is apparent that as a distinct lack of rational thought is being employed here then there is no point continuing.




If you take your bat & go home we can't play cricket, another great English game .


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## Uncle Festivus (14 August 2007)

Knobby22;190947
We don't hate England. I like England and Scotland and Wales and Ireland! We just don't want their flag on our flag.
BBC tv is the best.[/quote said:
			
		

> I agree, this is _the_ point of the discussion.


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## Nicks (14 August 2007)

MS+Tradesim said:


> Is that really the best reply you can come up with? What is this? A schoolyard?..... "I know you are so what am I". It is apparent that as a distinct lack of rational thought is being employed here then there is no point continuing.




Actually I thought what Uncle gave was a fair and reasonble point. 

It does not make much logic having the flag of another country inside the flag of our soiverign country's flag.


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## numbercruncher (14 August 2007)

The result of the poll is pretty indicative of societys sentiment, 70pc want the flag that our ancestors fought and died for left alone.


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## Nicks (14 August 2007)

numbercruncher said:


> That would be a negative to that Uncle. But nice try.
> 
> But it sounds like youve swallowed enough propaganda to hate your own ancestoral origins ...
> 
> ...




What a load of rubbish.

Ask an Aboriginal, or an Australian of Italian Heritage, or Irish, Greek, Vietnamese or anything else for that matter if they consider their ancestoral origins as British.

You cant be serious. Its warped people like you that divide our country.

The only logical thing you state is that it is a fine country.

Women and black people can vote now. Before they couldn't. Lets change something else that is irrational from the past and change the flag too.


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## numbercruncher (14 August 2007)

Nicks said:


> What a load of rubbish.
> 
> Ask an Aboriginal, or an Australian of Italian Heritage, or Irish, Greek, Vietnamese or anything else for that matter if they consider their ancestoral origins as British.
> 
> ...





Its warped people like you that divide our country by bringing up stupid stunts like removing the flag.

And its warped people like you that all of a sudden start bringing in race and sex into it and rights to vote and all sorts of other garbage that wernt even mentioned or thought of, probably stemming from paranoia.

People need to learn to leave well enough alone, welcome to a democracy, majority rules, like it or lump it.

If you feel so strongly petition the Government for a referendum and the people shall speak.


oh btw, you Mentioned the Irish, the Union Jack incorporates St Patricks cross so i dont think they have too much of an issue with it.


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## Nicks (14 August 2007)

Knobby22 said:


> Buster
> 
> 
> I'm a patriot. I feel no special loyalty to Britain. I am glad they gave us our political and legal system and don't even mind having the Queen as our figurehead leader but it is time to have an inclusive flag that repersents Australia.




Sorry knobby im not with you on this. Having the Queen as our figurehead makes less logical sense than having the Union Jack on our flag for historical reasons. I can't see how you could support one and not the other.

Get rid of both. Queen lives on the other side of the earth and is British, not Australian, and while we are at it, remove the other countries flag from ours.


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## Nicks (14 August 2007)

numbercruncher said:


> That would be a negative to that Uncle. But nice try.
> 
> But it sounds like youve swallowed enough propaganda to hate your own ancestoral origins ...
> 
> ...




You go on at Uncle about him and the Anti Australia crew?

Enlighten us numbercruncher.... whom is this Anti Australia crew you talk about?


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## MS+Tradesim (14 August 2007)

Nicks said:


> Actually I thought what Uncle gave was a fair and reasonble point.
> 
> It does not make much logic having the flag of another country inside the flag of our soiverign country's flag.




Nicks,

By what system of "logic" can the following BS be supported?



> If you like the Union Jack in the corner of 'our' flag then you are a monarchist, and we all know what that entails eg the side show called the royal family staring Prince Charles & Camilla.




Whether or not you agree with the sentiment, the claim itself is completely irrational. I like the UJ in the corner of our flag and I am a republican.



> True Australians are the majority I'm afraid. We Australians just don't like a flag of another country on our flag.




What gives this guy the right to claim majority status and that ONLY those who don't like the UJ on the Aus flag are true Australians? Again, it's irrelevant if you agree with his sentiment. There is simply no supportable logic or argument involved. It's just emotion.

And this little chestnut:



> Yes, that's exactly what it is - weird & illogical to have the flag of another country on a modern & independant countries flag. It's 2007, not 1777. Let go of your insecurities.




Right. I'm insecure because I like our current flag. That comment doesn't even rise above blatant stupidity.

So Nicks, if you want to say we should have a new flag, that's fine. But if you think any of the above comments from Uncle Festivus are rational then it's time to take Logic101 again.


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## numbercruncher (14 August 2007)

Nicks said:


> You go on at Uncle about him and the Anti Australia crew?
> 
> Enlighten us numbercruncher.... whom is this Anti Australia crew you talk about?




Sorry Nicks i dont wish to partake in this fruitless banter anymore, flags here to stay, you guys who want it removed will need to wait a few generations or start a civil war or something.


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## Nicks (14 August 2007)

numbercruncher said:


> Sorry Nicks i dont wish to partake in this fruitless banter anymore, flags here to stay, you guys who want it removed will need to wait a few generations or start a civil war or something.




Guess you dont want to justify your claims of an Anti Australia crew. Just make frivilous claims like this without any substantiation, then back out when challenged. Nice. 
Yep you had better not partake in the discussion as how can one discuss irrational and frivilous unsubstantiated claims of some underground gang or 'crew'.

Whom is this Anti Australia crew I wonder. They sound quite bad.


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## Nicks (14 August 2007)

MS+Tradesim said:


> So Nicks, if you want to say we should have a new flag, that's fine. But if you think any of the above comments from Uncle Festivus are rational then it's time to take Logic101 again.




No problem, just dont change what my post was about, I supported one of Uncle's comments, as you well know and can see - scroll up! So why you suddenly post all of his comments in a post and link them to me confounds me. Its misleading and untruthful and certainly not logic.


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## wayneL (14 August 2007)

Seems to be a lot of emotion running in here over a piece of coloured cloth.

Perhaps an examination of what flags actually signify, if anything, is in order.

Think about this; no flag, no fight.

All this flag business is a bit of a meme IMO. The concept itself a relic from centuries past so you knew who to shoot your bow and arrow at.

It's all BS.


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## MS+Tradesim (14 August 2007)

Nicks said:


> No problem, just dont change what my post was about, I supported one of Uncle's comments, as you well know and can see - scroll up! So why you suddenly post all of his comments in a post and link them to me confounds me. Its misleading and untruthful and certainly not logic.




Right Nicks. I can see you attended the same school of logic as UF.  I'm not adding anymore when such disingenuous manipulations are rampant. Enjoy your soapbox. You should enter politics. Spin is an attractive asset there.

Ps. There's nothing illogical about employing a symbol with a direct and overwhelming historical connection. Define exactly what law of logic it contravenes. Otherwise, you've proven to quite misleading and untruthful. Pfft.


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## Pat (14 August 2007)

Why not use the aboriginal flag to represent Australia?
Or is this out of the question?


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## caleb2003 (14 August 2007)

Why not have just a blank flag with the words "100% Australian" on, its on just about everything else.


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## theasxgorilla (14 August 2007)

I went to the boxing day test last year and actually sat with the barmy army..."get your **** stars, get your **** stars, get **** stars off our flag" was playing in my head for weeks after.  Seems the poms don't want us using their flag either!


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## Uncle Festivus (15 August 2007)

Now that the monarchists have left, we can discuss alternatives. At least it will please the poms


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## YELNATS (15 August 2007)

Uncle Festivus said:


> Now that the monarchists have left, we can discuss alternatives. At least it will please the poms




Looking good. Maybe the stars should be rotated/repositioned in the centre of the flag, particularly the large star, to improve the visual effect.


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## Knobby22 (15 August 2007)

I'd like a third colour, say gold, so we have original colours for our sporting teams etc.


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## Knobby22 (15 August 2007)

theasxgorilla said:


> I went to the boxing day test last year and actually sat with the barmy army..."get your **** stars, get your **** stars, get **** stars off our flag" was playing in my head for weeks after.  Seems the poms don't want us using their flag either!




True.


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## Nicks (15 August 2007)

Uncle Festivus said:


> Now that the monarchists have left, we can discuss alternatives. At least it will please the poms




Yes there were at least two whom got quite defensive and personal, resorting to the old ..... I cant comepete with logic anymore so you stink and im not talking anymore, ner.

It would be interesting to see how the poms would respond to a survey on whether they believe Australia should move forward and develop a new flag.


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## mark70920 (15 August 2007)

I look at the union jack as where we came from,our legal system , our system of government and our core values .
The southern cross is where we are and federation star showing us to be one country.
I think the flag perfectly represents modern Australia , the origins of the country will always be , where we are will always be and I hope the Federation will always be.
If you have anti-british feelings get over it, the origins of the country are british, while the british empire is long gone that doesn't change history.

PS: I do believe that the Queen should be the last British Monarch to be our head of State , be we do need to insure the republican model we adopt is as stable as our current system.

To say Aussie Diggers never fought under an Aussie Flag is a lie , our Korean Vets fought under the aussie flag , our Vietnam Vets Fought under the Aussie Flag and every conflict since has been under an Aussie Flag.


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## Knobby22 (15 August 2007)

mark70920 said:


> To say Aussie Diggers never fought under an Aussie Flag is a lie , our Korean Vets fought under the aussie flag , our Vietnam Vets Fought under the Aussie Flag and every conflict since has been under an Aussie Flag.




I was talking the original diggers who had to dig trenches. WW1


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## Nicks (15 August 2007)

mark70920 said:


> I look at the union jack as where we came from,our legal system , our system of government and our core values .
> The southern cross is where we are and federation star showing us to be one country.
> I think the flag perfectly represents modern Australia , the origins of the country will always be , where we are will always be and I hope the Federation will always be.
> If you have anti-british feelings get over it, the origins of the country are british, while the british empire is long gone that doesn't change history.
> ...





Mark I dont think anyone here is anti british. The poms are our mates. Why do you Union Jack supporters keep resorting to accusing us of this! Just because we want our independant identity which includes no Union Jack on our flag!!!

I think what we are saying is it does not represent our country currently.

I dispute that the origins of our country are british. Some of the origins are yes. Some of our origins are aboriginal. Some of our origins are ethnic, gees many things in this country are or yankee origin but I dont think you would like the stars and stipes in the corner of the flag. 
All that is in the past. Now we are unique and original and soverign.


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## YELNATS (15 August 2007)

mark70920 said:


> If you have anti-british feelings get over it, the origins of the country are british, while the british empire is long gone that doesn't change history.




Removing the UJ from the Australian flag shouldn't be contrued as anti-British, just pro-Australian.

Other member countries of the Commonwealth have done it. eg. Canada.

The indigenous population may take issue with the assertion that the origin of the country is British.


----------



## mark70920 (15 August 2007)

Nicks said:


> Mark I dont think anyone here is anti british. The poms are our mates. Why do you Union Jack supporters keep resorting to accusing us of this! Just because we want our independant identity which includes no Union Jack on our flag!!!
> 
> I think what we are saying is it does not represent our country currently.
> 
> ...




Our system of Governemnt is the westminster system , our legal system goes all the way back to Magna Carta , Our Military structure is also british. We are unique , our flag is unique. You can deny it all you like , Australia's origins are british while we have grown in to a multi cultural society , we started out as british colonies. ( I realise Aboriginal people live here for 10's of thousands of years before the british came but modern Australia did not stem from their culture)


----------



## Buster (16 August 2007)

Knobby22 said:


> If Australia is around for another 300 years, do we still have a British flag in our corner? What about 1000 years? When do we get big enough to get our own flag? If GBR does break up do we keep it as a remembrance?.




Errr.. Yes, Yes..Yes. We were big enough a little while back, when we _got_ our own flag.. The Australian Flag mate.  No, we keep it because it's our flag, has been for some time and DOES represent Australia (did you happen to notice the southern cross, seven pointed stars etc etc..)and our history..



Knobby22 said:


> And believe it or not, there are many RSL members who would like a new flag. They fought for Australia and simply put Australia is not properly represented in the present flag..




Garbage.. you obvioulsy don't drink at RSL's Knobby



Knobby22 said:


> How do you think the present troops feel when they have to explain to their USA allies that they are not part of Britain and the fact their flag is in the corner is just a fact of history. Imagine how they feel when they have to parade next to British troops. The British must think their flag is cute. I reckon Wayne must think it is funny but he is too many manners to say so...




Ha.. Our USA allies generally have no idea mate.. I've certainly never been asked why I had a 'little british flag' in the corner of my Australian Flag.. I also don't need to imagine 'parading' alongside British troops either, been there done that, and to tell you the truth nobody gives it a second thought.. It's simply _our_ flag.. I'll leave the 'suggestions' of what everybody else 'must' be thinking up to you..



Knobby22 said:


> Didn't you find it strange that when the flag raisings occurred in the Commonwealth Games, every other country has got rid of the British flag in the corner except protectorates and New Zealand?




....No..



Knobby22 said:


> It is embarassing to me, sorry.




Best you prepare youself for perpetual embarrasment then matey, cause I can't see the Flag changing.. ever.  It always amuses me when this argument is raised, although I find it odd in this forum, as previously stated it's normally reserved for political fopar coverups..

Regards,

Buster


----------



## noirua (16 August 2007)

The Australian Flag really needs a lot more stars on it. There has long been a debate to create more cities and if each city is represented by a star, on the flag, the number could increase over the years. 

It would probably be best to have a two year period when applications to become a city are considered, otherwise the flag would need updating far too often.


----------



## websman (16 August 2007)

It's just a matter of time before president Bush orders American troops to invade Australia...then it won't be an issue.  Australia will become the 51'st state.  Hope y'all like Nascar, country music, and driving on the right side of the road.

YEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAA!!!!


----------



## noirua (31 August 2007)

websman said:


> It's just a matter of time before president Bush orders American troops to invade Australia...then it won't be an issue.  Australia will become the 51'st state.  Hope y'all like Nascar, country music, and driving on the right side of the road.
> 
> YEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAA!!!!





Hi websman, "Do you think President Bush knows where Australia is"?  He would probably invade Lapland by mistake and imprison Father Xmas.


----------



## noirua (31 August 2007)

There is a historic flag that could represent Australia, simple as it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Eureka_Flag.svg

History of 1854:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eureka_Stockade


----------



## Uncle Festivus (25 January 2010)

"I object to having the British flag in the corner of *our* flag,"



> Former television journalist Ray Martin is leading a new push to replace the Australian flag on the eve of the country's national day.
> With national leaders and ordinary Australians preparing to celebrate Australia Day on Tuesday, Martin has criticised the flag amid confirmation from Labor sources that a referendum on the republic debate will be called if Labor wins the federal election this year.
> "I object to having the British flag in the corner of our flag," Martin told the Herald Sun newspaper.
> "We have well and truly reached the point where we should have our own flag. I think we have to grow up and move on to the next stage."



http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/ray-martin-leads-push-for-new-flag-20100125-msu3.html


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (25 January 2010)

> Former television journalist Ray Martin is leading a new push to replace the Australian flag on the eve of the country's national day.
> With national leaders and ordinary Australians preparing to celebrate Australia Day on Tuesday, Martin has criticised the flag amid confirmation from Labor sources that a referendum on the republic debate will be called if Labor wins the federal election this year.
> "I object to having the British flag in the corner of our flag," Martin told the Herald Sun newspaper.
> "We have well and truly reached the point where we should have our own flag. I think we have to grow up and move on to the next stage."




Ray Martin probably wants the Channel 9 Logo on the flag.

What a tosser, coming out like this, just before Australia Day for maximum publicity, when the rest of us have been barracking for the Eureka Flag for decades.

gg

Shame, shame, shame.


----------



## Dunger (25 January 2010)

I think the southern cross is outdated on any flag just as much as the union jack is outdated. 

The southern cross can be seen everywhere in the southern hemisphere, and unless I'm an American with no concept of geography, we aren't the only proud nation south of the equator.

We can be more creative than using a constellation that's better used as a navigational aid to find south or used as a corporate bank logo instead of a symbol of our national pride.

Are you proud to be in the southern hemisphere or are you proud to be an Australian?


----------



## cornnfedd (25 January 2010)

If it aint broke dont fix it, dont just change something for the point of changing it. I say leave it as it is, it has history - isnt history important?


----------



## wayneL (25 January 2010)

I reckon keep the southern cross.


----------



## jbocker (25 January 2010)

Never really worried me to change the flag, but would be happy to see the union jack go. 
But I would rather the current flag to the Eureka flag - which is historically geocentric to Ballarat, and subsequently union adopted. A flag of defiance when I think we should be looking more for common ground.
Absolutely No disrespect to the Eureka flag, as it represents a brilliant piece of history, but should remain that way.

Thinking about it I would be happy to see our flag with the Commonwealth/federation star representing the states and territories in the place of the union jack and the southern cross constellation angled through the rest of the flag, representing the geographic location we all live under. Dark Blue and white as is.
The transition to recognising the flag as Australian would be easy.

jb


----------



## Bigukraine (25 January 2010)

wayneL said:


> I reckon keep the southern cross.




And the new captal of this nation can be set up in Little Burke st in Melbourne and called Chinstralia


----------



## long$$ (25 January 2010)

Dunger said:


> I think the southern cross is outdated on any flag just as much as the union jack is outdated.
> 
> The southern cross can be seen everywhere in the southern hemisphere, and unless I'm an American with no concept of geography, we aren't the only proud nation south of the equator.
> 
> ...




I agree; the Southern Cross is also already on the New Guinea flag.

The kangaroo is already used on naval vessels and air force planes, so how about this:.




This based on the Canadian flag with kangaroo instead of maple leaf. If a dead leaf is good for the Canadians, surely a live kangaroo is good for Australia.

The kangaroo is based on the one on the old pennies.

For those who prefer green & gold, the white background could be green, and the white background yellow.

For those with political sensitivities I would have no objections if the kangaroo was facing right.


----------



## Sean K (25 January 2010)

wayneL said:


> I reckon keep the southern cross.



I think China will take away the stars.


----------



## Stan 101 (25 January 2010)

Not caring much either way for the monarchy or the republic but am concerned on why the situation needs to change at all? All I see with a republic is wasted public and private funds being spent changing all government stationary, the cost of debate, replacement of thousands of flags, rewriting legislation etc.

Will the cost of change be debated in the public domain or does Ray Martin and Bob Brown think Dick Smith will pick up the tab again?

With so many people unhappy about the government stimulus last year, the insulation and solar rebate and the baby bonus, how will those same people feel about blowing a few billion on the change?


cheers,


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (25 January 2010)

Those flags above look ridiculous.

Remember you are picking a flag for a Nation not a bloody footy team or a supermarket frequent flyers card.

We also don't need old had-it bastards like Dick Smith or Ray "Wheeliebin" Martin to decide our flag.

Its either our present Flag or the Eureka Flag imho.

And I'm for the Eureka Flag.

gg


----------



## Sean K (25 January 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Those flags above look ridiculous.



I remember one some time ago that I thought was great.

It was a boomerang on the left and a kangaroo or southern cross on the right. 

Progression to the right....

Options were; black, red, yellow for the boomerang ... blue, red, white for the stars / roo. 

Like that one.


----------



## Stan 101 (25 January 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Those flags above look ridiculous.
> 
> Remember you are picking a flag for a Nation not a bloody footy team or a supermarket frequent flyers card.




I agree. Imagine Japan's response to us having a kangaroo on our national flag. Not only do we cull cull one of the animals on our national emblem we have the nerve to then add the same animal to our new flag and continue to cull it in mass proportions. We then still call the Japanese inhumane for catching whales...irony, anyone?


What is it with the flag. For the patriots, shouldn't the current flag have a real meaning as all our war folk have fought under it. It may have once been a throwback to the brits but to me it is the Australian flag. It's all I've ever known. When I look at it I see a flag representing Australia. I never even consider the Union Jack as britain unless someone makes note of it.

To change the flag and all it now represents will help kill 200 years of history. Isn't history what the patriots and pro republics want ultimately? If so, why do they want to kill this huge part of history now and start again?


It all seems very strange the more I think of it.

cheers,


----------



## Sean K (25 January 2010)

Stan 101 said:


> To change the flag and all it now represents will help kill 200 years of history.



Stan, do you think the country has changed in the past 200 years? If it has, then the flag should probably change to represent the new society. What we were, wasn't actually very good... eeeek! SK 


I think we will eventually have a global flag. A flag that reprsents an Earth saving itself from ... whatever ... 

Oooo, I hope we don't see this.


----------



## GumbyLearner (25 January 2010)

I wouldn't be for changing the flag. Too many people in my family and friends of family have either fought and/or died for that flag.


----------



## Stan 101 (25 January 2010)

kennas said:


> Stan, do you think the country has changed in the past 200 years?




Yes. I've not been paid in rum for years.



> If it has, then the flag should probably change to represent the new society. What we were, wasn't actually very good... eeeek! SK



I'm not fussed either way, Kennas. I just assumed that people would want to hold onto their culture, good and bad, and embrace it. Wander through Poland and their ugly history is embraced. It is what makes them as a people. Italy and Spain, Ireland and the like all have a heritage that makes them unique and could well be traced back to centuries ago. Imagine if the French lost touch with their culture in the early 1700s..

I just feel that if a new flag starts, so does the culture and the history and it all starts again. I could very well be wrong about this, though. 

Australia lacks culture as it is due to it's ethnic melting pot. I'd want to hold on to everything about my history I could if I was a patriot. But as I said, the only reason I entered into the debate is that I see it as a waste of taxpayer money. 




> I think we will eventually have a global flag. A flag that reprsents an Earth saving itself from ... whatever ...
> 
> Oooo, I hope we don't see this.




I have no idea on this at all. 


cheers,


----------



## malachii (25 January 2010)

Sorry - seen to much blood spilt defending this flag and what is stands for to have it changed.  I'm proud of it and Australia and to be Australian.  This is why I reserve the right to be apathetic on Australia Day - not get all "American" about it.

malachii


----------



## Mr J (26 January 2010)

Nothing wrong with the flag. I think it's attractive, modern, and memorable. If we get rid of the Union Jack we may as well start from scratch, because it would throw the flag out of balance.


----------



## wayneL (26 January 2010)

Well either New Zealand or Aus needs to change its flag, because sometimes I don't know where I am if I don't look closely. ('cept when I ask where the eggs are in the supermarket and I get blank looks... gotta say "iggs" LOL. Mind you, I could be in Qld and have the same problem. )

There doesn't seem to be that much of a new flag movement here, nobody gives a toss either way.


----------



## Tink (26 January 2010)

Some good posts in here

I am sure Canada went through the same to change their flag and they are just as laid back as us, but they did it 

I am all for a new flag. 

http://www.ausflag.com.au/


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## Logique (26 January 2010)

wayneL said:


> I reckon keep the southern cross.



That's a cracker WayneL. With Chairman Kevin at the helm, and we can read the news in Pravda (that's how I think of that house anyway, oh so balanced.)

For the record I strongly support the Eureka flag.


----------



## Duckman#72 (26 January 2010)

Stan 101 said:


> I just feel that if a new flag starts, so does the culture and the history and it all starts again. I could very well be wrong about this, though.




Ray Martin made an argument for changing the flag last night, that I think should be used as a reason NOT to change the flag. 

Forgive me for paraphrasing but this is the quote as best I can remember:

"Everyone said the sky would fall in if we said sorry to the Aborigines, and look what has happened 12 months later. Nothing has happened. We shouldn't get so worried about these things"

Now this is a classic. My dilemma is that changing the flag will be a costly and futile exercise with very little tangible results. A little like the "Sorry Exercise". I apologise for blending the two arguments - but Ray Martin brought it up. From where I live, I can see absolutely NO change in the lifestyle, help, assistance, self-respect, drug/alcohol abuse, welfare issues that the local indigenous face. 

Changing the flag is another "feel good" project. You change the flag and the only guarantee will be that you alienate a different group of people. 

As for getting confused with the New Zealand flag - please!!! The kiwi's don't have a defence force, they never win anything, they don't make much and most of them are trying to move to Australia. When do you even see their flag??    (Sorry Julia ) 

Duckman


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## Dowdy (26 January 2010)

We should change to flag altogether. The only thing that represents anything for Australia is the blue (sea). The southern cross and the union jack mean jack **** to an Australian. The abo flag has more meaning then the Aussie one (represents the land and sun)

And yes, I've had relatives who have gone to war for Australia but i can tell you, they don't fight for a flag


----------



## Tink (26 January 2010)

We had the same baloney when we changed our national anthem..

_In May 1977, however, a national poll was conducted to ascertain the public choice of a national song. This time more than seven million people were issued with ballot papers. The results were: ‘Advance Australia Fair’ 43.2 per cent, ‘Waltzing Matilda’ 28.3 per cent, ‘God Save the Queen’ 18.7 per cent and ‘Song of Australia’ 9.6 per cent. 

*Despite the poll results, adoption of the new national anthem met widespread opposition*._

Now you tell me why we would stick to 'God save the Queen' as our national anthem?

Can you imagine our kids singing that?


----------



## Pieter (26 January 2010)

Absolutely, past time. There are several flags that are recognised the world over. Japan, the former Soviet Union, the States, Canada and a number of others. Wouldn’t it be terrific to have one of those? One that can’t be confused with any other counties? I would suggest the Aboriginal flag with the the Southern Cross stars super imposed over top. I would be instantly recognised as ‘Ours’. It would be inclusive and set a wonderful example of taking the traditional owners views of our world seriously. IMO


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## Mr J (26 January 2010)

Tink said:


> We had the same baloney when we changed our national anthem..




Are you sure? The current flag seems far, far more popular than "God Save The Queen".



			
				Pieter said:
			
		

> There are several flags that are recognised the world over. Japan, the former Soviet Union, the States, Canada and a number of others.




And we have one. Yes, it is very similar to New Zealand's, and has a slice of the UK, but the flag is very different to almost every other flag. I wouldn't worry about the kiwi's having the same flag, as their's is far more likely to be confused for ours than the other way around. I like the Aboriginal flag, but not as a national flag - couldn't imagine hanging it off the back of a destroyer.


----------



## Tink (26 January 2010)

Mr J said:


> I wouldn't worry about the kiwi's having the same flag, as their's is far more likely to be confused for ours than the other way around.




Oh really?

When Australia's then Prime Minister, Mr Hawke, visited Ottawa in Canada in 1985 the New Zealand flag was mistakenly raised in his honour.


----------



## Wysiwyg (26 January 2010)

Pieter said:


> It would be inclusive and set a wonderful example of taking the *traditional owners* views of our world seriously. IMO




No one owns the land, just as the "planet" is not owned by anyone/group either. The best outcome is to share the land in harmony as an alternative to disharmony. 
I wholly agree with taking the "aboriginal" views of our world seriously.


----------



## Airfireman (26 January 2010)

Lets go for the 2 for 1 offer and have a republic/new flag...

My avatar was a flag design submitted..i like it


----------



## Stan 101 (26 January 2010)

Airfireman said:


> Lets go for the 2 for 1 offer and have a republic/new flag...
> 
> My avatar was a flag design submitted..i like it




Qantas would like it..


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (26 January 2010)

One of the big problems is that those who would most support the new flag if it were the Eureka Flag, also have served or have family members who served under our present flag.

So a significant minority might vote against a new flag as a result.

I'd like to see a Eureka Flag, but served under the present one, so understand the feelings of those who don't want any change.

gg


----------



## Duckman#72 (26 January 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> One of the big problems is that those who would most support the new flag if it were the Eureka Flag, also have served or have family members who served under our present flag.
> 
> So a significant minority might vote against a new flag as a result.
> 
> ...




That is sort of what happens now. We have our "official" flag and a couple of "unofficial" flags - boxing kangaroo, eureka and aboriginal flags. New Zealand do the same with their black silver fern flags. 

It is a little like the National Anthem - we have our official anthem but also belt out Walzing Matilda and True Blue.

The Eureka flag means nothing to me. If you want me to change - you will need to come up with something better than that.

Duckman


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (26 January 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> That is sort of what happens now. We have our "official" flag and a couple of "unofficial" flags - boxing kangaroo, eureka and aboriginal flags. New Zealand do the same with their black silver fern flags.
> 
> It is a little like the National Anthem - we have our official anthem but also belt out Walzing Matilda and True Blue.
> 
> ...




Ok , I don't like it, but many would.

gg


----------



## Mr J (27 January 2010)

Tink said:


> Oh really?
> 
> When Australia's then Prime Minister, Mr Hawke, visited Ottawa in Canada in 1985 the New Zealand flag was mistakenly raised in his honour.




Yes really, because that's actually what I said : - their flag is far more likely to be mistaken for (being) ours.


----------



## GumbyLearner (27 January 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Ok , I don't like it, but many would.
> 
> gg




I would prefer the Eureka Flag with a Cornish pastie in the top left corner. Great miners food those pasties!


----------



## wayneL (27 January 2010)

The Eureka flag has no chance because it symbolises rebellion against the gu'mint. Dear Leader would never go for that unless it's their version of it like I posted in the other thread.

It would be like the Yanks thinking of changing to the confederate flag.

What's the fuss anyway? It's a piece of cloth ffs. It's an official identifier, it's no big deal.

What does it even symbolise apart from the gu'mint  of Australia? Any old piece of coloured rag will do really. But people want to wave a flag around at the world cup or the olympics or whatever. That means it can't offend anyone. That means simple and symbolically bland and it has to match all our shoes and handbags.

A tall order. 

The Canucks pulled it off and I reckon the Suth Ifricans did a good job too.

The Kiwis are into black in a big way so they could do the silver fern on the black background thing without even missing a beat.

Aus has developed the green and gold colour awareness through sport (though confusing with the 'boks having the same), so I reckon any piece of rag that people feel they have to get irrationally emotional over would have to be green and gold predominantly.

As far as symbols, the 'roo is probably about it that is uniquely Oz... but Aussies all go out and get pissed on the weekend and blow most of them away; with the rest ending up embedded in the radiators of Commodores and Kenworths. People will give note the hypocrisy.

On the other hand, the current flag is attractive, immediate recognisable as Aussie and it's already emblazoned on everything in the new found American-style jingoistic fervour. 

People with a hangup about the Union flag in the corner should probably direct their attentions toward the social matters and the encroaching state interference in everyones lives.... ahhhh but you're kept pacified by middle class welfare.

Where's that Eureka flag when you need it?


----------



## Tink (27 January 2010)

I think its time they designed some flags, show the public and see what they think, like they did with the national anthem, even though with the poll, we still had to endure 'God save the Queen' for another 8 years.

why would aborigines want to sing God save the Queen?



Airfireman said:


> Lets go for the 2 for 1 offer and have a republic/new flag...
> 
> My avatar was a flag design submitted..i like it




Nice flag and I agree with you : )


----------



## gav (27 January 2010)

kennas said:


> Stan, do you think the country has changed in the past 200 years? If it has, then the flag should probably change to represent the new society. What we were, wasn't actually very good... eeeek! SK




So we should just change the flag every time society changes?  I guess the yanks should have changed when they elected a black president then.


----------



## wayneL (27 January 2010)

Tink said:


> why would aborigines want to sing God save the Queen?




Why would anyone want to sing God save the Queen? 

Re Advance Australia Fair - Great anthem tune, but what about those lyrics.... uuuggh. Cringe-worthy.


----------



## Logique (27 January 2010)

Loath that dirge Advance Australia Fair. 
But sung to the melody of working class man, it's not half bad, Jimmy Barnes could do a killer version, even if the words are naff.


----------



## JustJane (14 February 2010)

Yes, yes, yes! Personally I believe the Australian flag should ACCURATELY represent why Australians are in the 21st Century, where no matter the colour of our skin we are the result of tyrannical British Rule and the Eureka Revolt, so our (new) Australian flag should rightly be the Eureka Flag in the centre of the Union Jack with only about 10% of the Union Jack visible on all four boarders. As a person who loves their country of birth, Australia, I feel a bit like this  primarily because many people in this country given a bit of power act like this :sheep: or this :horse: eh!


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## Surly (15 February 2010)

I am stunned and amazed that people believe the aboriginal flag represents the average australian more than the Union Jack.

The aboriginal flag has only been around since 1971 so how much cultural significance can it really have?

Leave the flag as it is.

cheers
Surly


----------



## Dukey (15 February 2010)

Having lived O/S for a while, in a place that holds on tight to it's unique culture despite being decimated by multiple invasions before, during and since WWII - (Okinawa) - I'm constantly amazed by our cavalier attitude to our own history, and willingness to chuck it out at the drop of a hat, for no good reason... or much worse -  for a buck.

Take the old "Sheffield Shield" interstate cricket comp - which had a history of over 100 yrs - which is plenty in this country. [[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]The very first Sheffield Shield match was played on December 16, 1892, at Adelaide. - http://members.optusnet.com.au/~anmarks/history.htm][/FONT] 
A few years back the competition was ditched - god knows what excuse the ACB used - maybe there was no space on the shield? - Anyway,  the comp was renamed the "Pura Cup" of all things... why??? - because the sponsor  - Pura milk provided some $$$.  Unbelievable! Wouldn't happen in any other country with a sense of history... with the possible exception of the US, where $$ mean everything.
Pleased to say the sheffield shield is back these days ... but for how long? Apparently we can thank" weetbix" for that - since they didn't insist on naming rights for the competition - so good on sanitarium (?) for that  http://www.cricketnews.com.au/sheffield-shield-replaces-pura-cup/

It's a similar story with the renaming of stadiums and events to include sponsors names, regardless of the actual name of the place or it's history.

So... in honour of our meagre history... and in the apparent absence of our resident bard: '2020' (havn't seen him around here for a while?) I submit the below from  - http://www.johnston-independent.com/australian_flag.htm#poem
... kind of makes you think... I think.





> *Our Flag​ * _Author: Unknown_​ *   Our Flag wears the stars that blaze at night,
> In our Southern skies of blue,
> And a little old flag in the corner,
> That’s part of our heritage too.*​
> ...


----------



## tunrida (16 February 2010)

lot of emotive stuff on this issue; very little objectivity.
i used to argue for retaining the status quo but a few years back saw an aboriginal group on the steps of parl house adelaide protesting under the most striking flag I have seen - the southern cross on a pitch black backgound.
thought at the time wow! relevant and impressive. no aggravating union jack and no nonsense about southern cross being visible in the daytime.
for the record strong lineage of scots and english in my ancestors and seven who fought in world wars - 3 terminal, but I have no emotion to keep the UJ on our flag.


----------



## long$$ (9 September 2011)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Those flags above look ridiculous.
> 
> Remember you are picking a flag for a Nation not a bloody footy team or a supermarket frequent flyers card.
> 
> ...




The first time the kangaroo was put on an RAN ship was on HMAS Anzac serving in Korean waters to distinguish the ship from the USN. I doubt they thought they were a footy team or a supermarket.


----------



## Happy (9 September 2011)

To keep up with times maybe flag should take into account recent non Christian immigration, same sex partnership, “traditional owners” and maybe every other little flag all over Australian flag to represent every country represented on this country / continent.

Actually sick and tired of continuous barrage for: lesbian marriages, suria law, change of flag, anthem and constitutional monarchy to republic instead.


----------



## sails (9 September 2011)

The poll results of this thread are remarkably close to the latest 2pp Newspoll results of 41% to labor and 59% to the coalition...


 Yes   41.04%

    No  58.96%


----------



## Uncle Festivus (26 January 2013)

It's that time of year again - have we grown up yet??



> A HIGH-powered alliance of top Australians has unveiled a new national sporting flag and plans to use it to gatecrash major sporting events.
> 
> Ausflag will push for sporting bodies and fans to embrace the green, gold, blue and white flag - still featuring the Southern Cross - and even want it to be raised as the official flag in Olympic Games medal ceremonies.








or my version?


----------



## Logique (26 January 2013)

The Eureka flag for mine. Or if people insist, you could jazz it up with some minor gold and green flourishes.

Uncle F. the three colour flag above is very good, if design-wise a little dull, but that can be said of most national flags.


----------



## Macquack (26 January 2013)

A great national flag should be *distinguishable* on the world stage alongside hundreds of other flags.




Can the crowd who want to keep the current flag, please lobby New Zealand to change their flag.


----------



## pixel (28 January 2013)

Apparently, this debate isn't new. Dean Alston remembers:

"225 Years Ago"


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## Sean K (28 January 2013)

Uncle Festivus said:


> It's that time of year again - have we grown up yet??



I prefer the one with blue in it Uncle. Has more impact. The all green looks a bit bland. 

I do actually really like the one proposed. I'd rally around it.


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## Miss Hale (28 January 2013)

Thanks Pixel, very funny 

I like the flag and would vote to keep it as is.  Not keen on any of the alternatives, especially not the Eureka flag since it's been hijacked by the unions.  The only thing I don't like that is flag related is that our national colours are green and gold which is at odds with our flag, that always jarrs for me. I wonder when and why our national colours of green and gold were chosen


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## pixel (28 January 2013)

Miss Hale said:


> Thanks Pixel, very funny
> 
> I wonder when and why our national colours of green and gold were chosen




Blue, red, white are so commonplace all over the world, from Russia across Britain and France to the US.
Green (rainforest) and Gold (golden beaches and precious metal) describe Australia much better IMHO.

As I said before, the "Red Centre" would add another characteristic to the mix, but Aboriginal issues aside, it should really be more an ochre colour, which would be boring, no-contrast next to the gold.


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## white_goodman (28 January 2013)

hawaiian state flag


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