# Greening the Desert and turn Australia back into an oasis



## kincella (25 December 2009)

this is possibly the greatest gift you will ever receive in your lifetime...
its the knowledge, you can turn the earth around, take it back from the destructive leaders, and return our climate and earth back from the brink of disaster....
I came upon this today...these permaculture people, Australians, turned a piece of Jordan, a desert, with very little annual rainfall, into an oasis, they had figs growing there after 4 months...the oasis was self sufficient, could look after itself after 3 years...on very little annual rainfall
extract from their website.....
....*******teaching communities around them how to begin to tackle at root the massive challenges we now face after decades of short-term profit-based thinking has all but ‘consumed’ our planet and dismantled the social constructs that the human race has always depended on for its survival. Through this work we see desertification stopped in its tracks, and reversed. We see this century’s dire water issues getting resolved. We see productive work for millions in bypassing the irrelevant efforts of our ‘leaders’, to instead build a new kind of culture – a culture based on cooperative effort and learning. It’s a culture where its members have regained a sense of their place in creation, where they become land-based stewards of remaining resources; creating a culture where we at last find ultimate satisfaction – promoting and building peace and low-carbon, relocalised, community-based prosperity..................................................

an update to the video below...from their web site...
they have now self funded their own new project in Jordan, so they are not restricted as they were with the original project.....

This is amazing....they can turn any desert into an oasis, I need to find out the costs involved...
this means you could buy that cheap land, out in the drought areas, and turn it into an oasis...just imagine if hundreds or thousands of people, did this...or what if your mates, with money, pooled together , formed a community group, changed a whole small town around...

and the benefits to everyone will be amazing....forget about expensive housing in the city, and the pollution, traffic....
now it will be possible to buy that cheap house....out in the country....and there will be work for you, if you like the outdoors, looking after your oasis..

****watch the 5 minute video, to start with here..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ8pjOG4pXI&feature=related

then read as much as you can on their website....
http://permaculture.org.au/what-is-permaculture/

then this one.
http://www.permacultureplanet.com/projects.html

now enjoy this journey.....you are about to begin...


----------



## So_Cynical (25 December 2009)

*Re: Greening the Desert, + turn Australia back into an oasis*

Permaculture has been around in one form or another for probably over 50 years, while on a small scale the results can be spectacular its generally considered to not be commercially viable....as production can be very variable.


----------



## The Once-ler (27 December 2009)

kincella said:


> This is amazing....they can turn any desert into an oasis, I need to find out the costs involved...
> this means you could buy that cheap land, out in the drought areas, and turn it into an oasis...just imagine if hundreds or thousands of people, did this...or what if your mates, with money, pooled together , formed a community group, changed a whole small town around...
> 
> now enjoy this journey.....you are about to begin...





I'll bet the residents and farmers out at Woop Woop can't wait for a bunch of cashed up city dudes to come and turn their place into an oasis for them. They will be so pleased. They are gunna feel so silly when you guys show em what they have been doing wrong all along.

Maybe youse could form a sort of army, and go from desert town to desert town. Your army would grow and grow as more people join in. As you move from one town to the next, the poor silly residents who have mistakenly been living in a dust bowl when there was no need, would line the streets and cheer ya's in as youse come and show them all what to do? The word would get out that youse were coming to the next lucky town. There would be banners, steamers, marching bands, farmers offering their daughters?

Let us know how it all turns out. Maybe post some vids and updates as you go?

This country need more like you Kincella. Green the deserts up, make it an oasis. Go forth young man. You go out there and show these poor silly rural fools what they could have been doing all along.
.
.
.
.


----------



## kincella (27 December 2009)

oh, ye of little faith....
its all about harvesting the rain....saving it for our use, to produce food, crops, feed the stock, feed the native animals, provide a viable future for our children and grandchilden... our future generations....

not everyone wants to live in a pollution choked city, fighting over inadequate public transport, paying exhorbinate prices for housing and accommodation...living the rat race.........

there are many who are so blind, they cannot see....
try thinking outside of the square you live in.....
..........................................................................................
so permaculture as its known is not new, it has been practised in other countries for tens of thousands of years..

here is a magnificent photo of an example of swales, contours, or simply water harvesting...

this is how the asians have grown rice, for over 10,000 years....rice growing as everyne knows is water intensive...so what better way to do it then, an innovative way to harvest the water, instead of allowing run off, and waste...

note the permaculture examples I have seen so far and posted, only provide one swale per slope....but here in China, with a large labour force availabe, they work with numerous swales....

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9f/Banaue_Rice_Terrace_Close_Up_(2).JPG

Managing water resources in order to reduce erosion and make water available for terraced rice production. Seen from the air, much of China glistens with countless water surfaces that have been created by human labor. The building of terraces on slope land not only creates level land but also provides a means of "managing" rainwater by controlling its runoff. As rain falls on hill slopes, it tends to erode them relatively easily, but when the velocity of the water is slowed because it is impounded in irrigated fields erosion is reduced. The impounded water then can be controlled as it flows gently from a higher level to a lower level. As water falls from level terrace to terrace, the speed with which the water flows beyond the fields where it is needed is minimized. Usually fine silt is suspended in the flowing water that then is deposited in the lower fields rather than being carried farther away. Besides the obvious irrigation systems that are fundamental to terraced rice production, other systems control water flow and drainage on adjacent paddy fields that are nearly at the same level. Small-scale and large-scale water conservancy projects continue to be important means of increasing crop production as well as reducing flood and drought. 

http://afe.easia.columbia.edu/china/geog/maps.htm

ps note they also rotate their crops, to grow other vegetables...
with such a huge population to feed, they need to be a lot smarter than the average bear....
we in Australia should be looking at the Asians, for some answers, instead of the old, "she'll be right mate"....'Orstrlyn' way of doing things....

****remember the proverb....from a tiny mustard seed, a mighty tree may grow....
in other words, a glimmer of hope, can become a great idea, or project...


----------



## explod (27 December 2009)

Kincella, a great and inspirational thread.

As the Son of a farmer and Great Grandson of famers I got the message that they stuffed the land with clearing and particularly by the disturbance of cultivation.   That was lamented by my Dad just before his death in 1969.   In droughts gone by the loose rich topsoil was the first to blow away in the strong summer winds.    Overgrazing and fertilizers also played parts. 

cheers explod


----------



## Boyou (27 December 2009)

*Re: Greening the Desert, + turn Australia back into an oasis*



So_Cynical said:


> Permaculture has been around in one form or another for probably over 50 years, while on a small scale the results can be spectacular its generally considered to not be commercially viable....as production can be very variable.




Permaculture is the exact antithesis of commercial viability.It is the perfect foil for factory farming,non sustainable agriculture and puts land preservation at the very center .
And ,more importantly ,it  empowers those who practice it to take control of their food supply ,their waste disposal and their lives.

It's HOLISTIC ,not centralised 

Get it?


----------



## Harleyquin (27 December 2009)

I agree totally this is an inspirational thread.  Australia being the driest continent on earth, if you discount Antarctica, needs to start reversing the damage which has been done to this country by those who didn't know better or worse still didn't care.

There was a great episode on the ABC's 'Australian Story' and it's been repeated several times, and I think it was even voted the best or one of the best episodes of Australian Story.  It was about a fellow who wants to reverse the trend that has been set in the past and his property is testament to his beliefs.  He has had the backing of the fellow Harvey who owns Harvey Norman and he has had a lot of opposition from many but now the powers that be have seen that his ideas are producing results.

I can remember an elderly Aboriginal man in his 80s being interviewed in the 1960s and he said that the area where he lived near Boulia in NW Qld had grass up to his waist and was rich in animals.  Today it's almost a wasteland but comes back beautifully after rain.  We need to start planting trees that can survive in the desert areas and reverse has happened and is still happening now.

We live on a property and the horses and cows next door we allow onto our property as we have never cleared it, we prefer to leave it in it's natural state.  Every morning the animals are waiting at the gate to be let into our property.  Why - we have trees, grass and lots of weeds, are we going to get rid of them, no way, they are what keeps our land rich.  

I look around at the other properties and see the cattle and other animals feeding and there isn't a tree in sight.  It's extremely hot up here in Northern Australian and yet so many farmers get rid of their trees and consider 'clearing the land' to be the best way to go, what's wrong with leaving the trees for the animals for protection and the land to thrive.

What's wrong with allowing the trees to cool the land , their leaves mulch down and enrich the soil.  Look at Fraser Island it's a sand island and nothing of any value is going to grow in sand and yet they have a magnificent rainforest area there as the mulch from the trees have formed a rich layer over the years for the rainforest trees to not only grow but to thrive.  There is no reason why this concept cannot be applied anywhere.

In the desert areas if they start planting trees what thrive in those hot dry conditions they will start building up this layer of mulch until other forms of vegetation can take hold and thrive.  The tougher vegetation will also offer protection from the heat for the more susceptable types of vegetation which may not otherwise thrive in such arid areas.

I'm not a greenie who would tie myself to a tree to prevent someone clearing their land, but I am a greenie who would like to see us all take a serious look at what is happening and what could be happening to reverse the damage which has been done.  With some serious thought and money this country could all be turned into more of an oasis than a desert.


----------



## kincella (27 December 2009)

I would like all of you to concentrate on how to fix our country, versus paying huge sums in taxes and energy costs, as per the current ETS debate...and in cases, being ordered to pay billions of dollars to other countries, and at the end of the day, not one cent is spent on fixing our own country, nor reducing the affects of climate change.....

no one in govt. or power, has suggested, how a  drought stricken arid earth, ought to be corrected, nor its affects in global warming.....as per our own once great country,.... is it 3/4 that is in drought and basically destroyed now....

 our earth and soil has been destroyed, our climate is suffering.....to such an extent, its not unlike a drug addict....it needs more drugs, just to barely survive...and that is all that it is surving on now....hugely expensive chemicals...or drugs...

this thread is not about what is economically viable, nor profit making, it is about correcting a wrong, and making it right again....

there will be a cost, but what a wonderful goal to look forward to.....

with the Jordan example, it was self sufficient within 3 years.....
and like a gift, with maintenance, it just keeps on giving....

I gave an example of how a group of Australians, with the application of water harvesting, (swales, contours etc )and permaculture, transformed a small piece of desert into an oasis.....

If they can do that in Jordan, they said they can apply the same techniques to anywhere in the world.....it is not hugely expensive......
and I would suggest it would be far more cost effective and economically viable then the current method, with its inherit huge cost to the farmer, in the use of chemicals, each and every season....

I would initially suggest, each of those huge broad acre farms across Australia, that need more and more land each year to remain economically viable....should be made to include at least a  20% portion, in a restoration program, to each 100 acre allotment....a mini rainforest, employing the heavily concentrated process of restoring trees and grasses back into the land....
They should also be made to build the swales, to harvest the water, instead of allowing the huge run off and wastage, as is the current method.

Using the permaculture method for farming, they can produce so much more in a smaller space, no need for zillions of acres, and all the wastage that goes with it...
the smaller farms using this method, would achieve better returns, due to the higher fertility of the soils....compared to the chemical fertilisers...

oh and as a community food source, what could be better,... or do you prefer the 2 supermarkets fresh food programs.....stored in chemicals for a year, then released onto the shelves at ridiculous prices, unlikely to last more than a few days after purchase.....or the imported stuff, the huge cost of transporting food, from some other 3rd world country....rather than paying our farmers to produce it here...
I am sorry, but I am rather excited about the idea of transforming a desert, into an oasis and a viable community...providing jobs, and restoring the regional and country towns, but mostly about restoring water into this, the driest continent on earth....
everyone can join in, do their bit, some can start in their own backyards,  every little oasis, will help....
anything is better than our current system....


----------



## Wysiwyg (27 December 2009)

Most people prefer to live outside of a desert in the vast, and I mean vast, expanses of Australia that have consistent rainfall. Deserts are deserts because there is little to no rainfall. These areas do not remain constant and are eternally changing though on a scale beyond a human life. 

I do think water collection and efficient usage can be improved upon by everyone. A leaner, greener Australia will be excellent.


----------



## So_Cynical (27 December 2009)

*Re: Greening the Desert, + turn Australia back into an oasis*



Boyou said:


> Permaculture is the exact antithesis of commercial viability.It is the perfect foil for factory farming,non sustainable agriculture and puts land preservation at the very center .
> And ,more importantly ,it  empowers those who practice it to take control of their food supply ,their waste disposal and their lives.
> 
> It's HOLISTIC ,not centralised
> ...




I've lived with hippys and practised permacultue, dugg swales, shredded cardboard and drawn up whole of farm plans etc etc etc...so please save your advise for someone who dosent know all about it. 

The thread title is "Greening the Desert, + turn Australia back into an oasis" permacuture cant do that because permacuture is bad at delivering predictable yields and very very Labor intensive at the start and in general not friendly to machine harvesting...so therefore of limited use on the many, many broad acre, dryland farming property's in Australia.

Permacuture is brilliant for a 5 to 40 acre block with an owner who has the time and money to put into it....and where a dollar return on the time and money investment is not essential...IMO


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (28 December 2009)

If the Feds had let Joh Bjelke Petersen turn the rivers in NQueensland to flow inland by the use of dams these ideas on greening might have been realisable.

Its pissing rain up here now and much of the water just runs off with soil and nutrients, too much even to be useful for the reef and marine creatures.

If Joh were alive and still in power even the permaculture mob might have some chance of realising their dreams, but without water they have no hope.

gg


----------



## Jaza613 (1 March 2015)

The desert in Oz can and should be greened more! Permaculture may or may not be the answer - it's at least worth a try. I discussed this and other ideas in a new article on my blog:

http://greenash.net.au/thoughts/201...long-way-off-australian-infrastructure-links/


----------

