# Heart Health



## tech/a (1 April 2013)

59,105 kg,6'1

Male
Smoked on and off for 35 yrs
Always training jogging cycling and gym.
Never drank.

Noticed leg pain in calves after walking 5 or so kms
Same when jogging. Shortness of breath when beginning 
Training which remains manageable through training ---- thought that
The remnants of smoking --- gave up 5 yrs ago.

Turns out calf leg pain is one of the most common early indicators
Of Heart disease. With. Cholesterol level life long of 3.8 hasn't changed in
10 yrs this has come as a huge wake up call!

I've decided to have every test known to man and determine what
The level of damage is firstly.
Then the program to repair, stop and or avoid future damage.
While diet is ok---no fast food,I know sugar is my no 1 enemy.
So to portion size. I need to lose 20 kg.

But it's the low cholesterol yet strong symptoms of lack of oxygen 
And blood flow to leg muscles that has me baffled.

I guess all will come out in the following weeks as blood tests/stress tests and 
Whatever else is served up----fills in the picture.

I thought I'd post this up as I thought I was/am as fit as a mallee bull.
Aching legs---thought everyone suffered from that!

Lost a couple of mates from Heart disease--not that keen on joining the group!


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## dutchie (1 April 2013)

Glad to hear that you are getting some tests done.

Most blokes don't bother to get regular check ups until something goes wrong.

It is very important to get regular checks ups men!  Especially after age 50 and imperative at 60 onwards.

The first signs of old age (>50) often scare men but not enough to make them go and see/talk to someone (it will come good - no worries). 

The first setbacks won't kill you but recovery will be harder. Early detection, from regular checkups, helps recovery and prevention. Putting off checkups will only make things worse.

Diets will change as we get older and better food (less fat/less sugar) will happen gradually.
Smoking and heavy drinking are killers and should be avoided completely if you want to live longer and better.

Adequate exercise is another matter. It is too easy to become sedentary. The less you exercise the harder it is to exercise and therefore you do less exercise and so the downhill spiral continues.

Plenty of exercise will overcome a bad diet (excluding smoking and drinking) but a good diet will not overcome a lack of exercise. 

Hope all goes well with your checkups tech/a


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## Garpal Gumnut (1 April 2013)

I wish you good results and health, tech, a wise move, to have the docs check you out.

gg


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## CanOz (1 April 2013)

Well good luck Tech, very curious as well to see how you go. Is there a history of heart disease in either side of the family?

I have some concerns as well but am 13 years your junior. Need to get back on the bike, cut out more alcohol and stay off the bloody gaspers for good!

Diet isn't too bad, but a title high in salt (Asian).

Anyway, hope your ok, keep us posted and thanks for sharing.

CanOz


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## Logique (1 April 2013)

Sounds like you're taking all the right steps Tech. 

Reducing that BMI looks a good first step. My MD has me on a complete sugar prohibition, he wishes. It's damnably difficult.  

I'm not a smoker but don't see a problem with, in moderation (for medicinal purposes) a Dr Coopers. My MD isn't too keen on that either, but I said, I want to gain health, not lose the will to live.


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## tech/a (1 April 2013)

Champex the solution for me --- easiest thing I've done.

Mothers, ---- brother and sister both died of heart attacks.

Nothing otherwise mum and dad in 80s

Training for true grit in May.


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## bellenuit (1 April 2013)

tech/a said:


> Champex the solution for me --- easiest thing I've done.




Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by that?


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## chops_a_must (1 April 2013)

Good on you tech.

But you weigh 59,000kg? 

For those of us with sugar addictions, I can highly recommend stevia. Seriously, check it out.

I've beaten my coke addiction thanks to it.getting it out of my coffee and tea made a massive difference.

I had my third knee op in January and I'm probably less than half your age, so I'm having to make some pretty drastic changes otherwise I'm heading that way!


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## prawn_86 (1 April 2013)

chops_a_must said:


> I've beaten my coke addiction thanks to it.




What coke addiction was that...


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## drsmith (1 April 2013)

chops_a_must said:


> Good on you tech.
> 
> But you weigh 59,000kg?



I had to think about that one too, but I think it's age,weight.

I gave up sugar in beverages last year and don't miss it now. I do however still eat sweets occasionally. Definitely no Coke, but I used to drink it as a youngster.


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## chops_a_must (1 April 2013)

prawn_86 said:


> What coke addiction was that...




Been on a coke bender once in Spain.

Won't do it again.

And thankfully didnt get a nose bleed on the flight out.


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## chops_a_must (1 April 2013)

Good for weight loss but.


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## Logique (1 April 2013)

bellenuit said:


> Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by that?



I didn't either. It's a quit smoking thing. From Google: http://forums.redflagdeals.com/quit-smoking-champex-chantix-662232/


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## So_Cynical (1 April 2013)

tech/a said:


> 59,105 kg,6'1
> 
> Male
> Smoked on and off for 35 yrs
> ...




Go and get your heart sliced up, Heart CT scan will cost less than 500 bucks.


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## Julia (1 April 2013)

tech/a said:


> But it's the low cholesterol yet strong symptoms of lack of oxygen
> And blood flow to leg muscles that has me baffled.



There are other reasons for reduced blood flow to lower limbs.
Don't assume you have heart disease before you get results from tests.



Logique said:


> Sounds like you're taking all the right steps Tech.
> 
> Reducing that BMI looks a good first step. My MD has me on a complete sugar prohibition, he wishes. It's damnably difficult.



Has he explained specifically what sugar is doing to you?  I know it's fashionable to blame sugar for everything.  A few years ago it was fat that was the most evil.



> but I said, I want to gain health, not lose the will to live.



Exactly.  
I've never been overweight, exercise a lot and mostly eat with regard to good nutrition, emphasis on lots of vegetables, salads, small amounts of protein, minimal carbs, never fry anything or eat take aways,  but I'm damned if life is meant to be utterly about denial.  e.g. when fresh asparagus is in season, make a meal of it, but have it with of butter and seasonings.
Eat the best quality food you can afford.
Buy top quality chocolate.  I'm happy with just one, but dip it into whipped cream.
Small indulgences make life enjoyable.

A friend of mine died recently.  Lung cancer and Hodgkins Lymphoma, the cancer having spread through most of her body.  She never smoked or drank any alcohol.  She avoided salt and sugar.  Ate healthy diet and exercised regularly.  Had a calm disposition.  Despite all this she had high cholesterol for most of her adult life, and then the cancer.

It has much to do with our genes.  My father ate what seemed like dreadful amounts of fat.  He would drink down a whole 600ml bottle of cream as if it were milk, daily.  Ate fatty cuts of meat, never removing the fat.
Had perfect cholesterol and blood pressure and was never overweight.  Very physically active.



tech/a said:


> Champex the solution for me --- easiest thing I've done.



Induced a psychotic suicidal depression in one of my friends.

Good luck with the weight loss, Tech.  
Soon the obese person will be the new normal.  I can't believe how fat so many people are!

Thanks for sharing your situation.  It's a worthwhile topic for discussion.  Hope you'll keep us informed.


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## qldfrog (1 April 2013)

well take care, hope you will be able to fix the lot and be back 100%
we need you here!!!


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## tech/a (1 April 2013)

qldfrog said:


> well take care, hope you will be able to fix the lot and be back 100%
> we need you here!!!




Err no problems just symptoms
I'm running 40 k and riding 70k a week so
Hardly debilitated!

Thanks anyway for the best wishes everyone
I'm really curious as to these aching legs
And thought it worth making the symptom 
Known----I'd never heard of it.


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## Country Lad (1 April 2013)

tech/a said:


> ............I'm running 40 k and riding 70k a week..................I'm really curious as to these aching legs.




hhmmm, you're not getting any younger you know.  Might there be a relationship between the your age and the amount of exercise?


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## waza1960 (1 April 2013)

> 59,105 kg,6'1
> 
> Male
> Smoked on and off for 35 yrs
> ...




  Me..... 53 yrs old ////  92Kg  6'1
   Male
  Never smoked.
   usually only have a couple of drinks on the weekend.
    Had lots of stress over the years though.
   Never exercise except for work which has always being quite physical.
    Blood pressure has always being perfect.
   Don't get regular checkups yet and healthy (touch wood)

  Most of my life I had an average weight of 105kgs went up to 130kgs at one stage.
   4 years ago made the conscious decision to look after myself better.
   I realized I was having around a dozen cups of tea a day / 2 teaspoons of sugar /cup =24 teaspoons sugar/day
   So cut sugar down to 1 t/spoon/cup then half then 0. Went to low fat milk and cut down portion size slightly.
   I never ate much bread or drank soft drink so that part was easy. I still eat whatever I want but concentrate on quality not quantity.

  I wonder whether exercise such as your doing tech really helps that much as we get older.
  Getting tests is good practise though.


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## explod (1 April 2013)

tech, as a trader my guess is you spend a fair amount of time sitting at your desk on the puter.

How do you rest your legs.  For many years I had your aching legs and it was found that I tucked them tight under the chair.  Happens unconsciously because we are eager in looking at the screens and tension builds up at times but we forget to relax back out.

After becoming aware of this I spread my legs apart and out under the desk, also learned to think about being less tense, deep breaths now and again and the problem went away.

Your cholesterol in fact does not seem too bad, mine was around 8 at one stage with very high blood pressure thrown in.  But once onto it all have now come good.  Of course I had other health issues as well, prostate cancer and servere depression too, but once you tune (as you are doing) in I am sure you will live a long a fruitful life.

And we need you champ


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## chops_a_must (1 April 2013)

Country Lad said:


> hhmmm, you're not getting any younger you know.  Might there be a relationship between the your age and the amount of exercise?




Was just thinking the same thing...

Go get a few massages and see if it gets better first I'd reckon.


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## Whiskers (2 April 2013)

tech/a said:


> Err no problems just symptoms
> I'm running 40 k and riding 70k a week so
> Hardly debilitated!
> 
> ...




I'm a tad younger, a smidgen shorter and abt same weight... but I'll be damned if I'd be running 40k and riding 70k a week.

 I used to run a lot when younger and walk up to 14km a week up to 9 years ago, but slowed down before I wore my body out. Younger brothers played football and trained hard for longer and have worn out their legs... numerous knee and ankle reconstructions.

I hope it works out well for you tech/a.


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## Tink (2 April 2013)

All the best tech with your tests, and good on you for getting a thorough check -- I think blood tests every year or few years is a must.
I agree that it doesnt necessarily mean its heart related, but interested to know the outcome and thanks for sharing
take care


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## Calliope (2 April 2013)

tech/a said:


> 59,105 kg,6'1
> 
> Male
> Smoked on and off for 35 yrs
> ...




Of course your legs ache. They weren't designed to lug around the surplus 20 kg. You have a BMI reading of 30.68 which is borderline obesity. You say you don't drink, so you must just eat too much. 

I am also 185 cm and weigh 93 kg and I have a beer gut that I am not proud of. Well it's a wine gut actually, but there's no way I am giving that up.

Category	BMI range – kg/m2	
Very severely underweight	less than 15	
Severely underweight	from 15.0 to 16.0	
Underweight	from 16.0 to 18.5	
Normal (healthy weight)	from 18.5 to 25	
Overweight	from 25 to 30	from 1.0 to 1.2
*Obese Class I (Moderately obese)	from 30 to 35* 
Obese Class II (Severely obese)	from 35 to 40	
Obese Class III (Very severely obese)	over 40


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## MrBurns (2 April 2013)

Looks like I need to lose about 15 kilos


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## Porper (2 April 2013)

I wouldn't get too hung up on these height to weight charts. Most reasonably fit people will come out overweight.

I am 6' 3" and no way should I be below 90kg as this chart suggests. And it's not like I am heavily built...just average. Having said that there are a hell of a lot of obese people around.


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## skc (2 April 2013)

I think anyone reaching 60 should switch their exercise focus from "pushing" to "preserving". Keep the cardio and flexibility stuff but go easy on the joints and cartilage - they don't grow back. 

I know a good vet but I am not sure she specialise in ducks. Also she's based in Sydney. Can you still fly there or do you need to confirm with your flock?


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## McLovin (2 April 2013)

Porper said:


> I wouldn't get too hung up on these height to weight charts. Most reasonably fit people will come out overweight.
> 
> I am 6' 3" and no way should I be below 90kg as this chart suggests. And it's not like I am heavily built...just average. Having said that there are a hell of a lot of obese people around.
> 
> ...




Agree, that chart is BS. 

I'm 6ft, the lowest my weight has ever been is ~78kgs and that was when I was at uni and cycling a couple of hours every day. That would still put me in mid to high. I had a resting heart rate back then <40 bpm, apparently I was still unhealthy though.


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## Calliope (2 April 2013)

Porper said:


> I wouldn't get too hung up on these height to weight charts. Most reasonably fit people will come out overweight.
> 
> I am 6' 3" and no way should I be below 90kg as this chart suggests. And it's not like I am heavily built...just average. Having said that there are a hell of a lot of obese people around.




No. On the BMI 90kg is just right for you.


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## tech/a (2 April 2013)

*Thats it---a VET!!!*

Stage 1 complete.
ultrasounds Friday
Blood tests done.
likely to be thickening of arteries
due to my years of smoking.

As for amount of exercise.
Done much more when younger--was a lot lighter and Id love
to not cart around 20KG-----Losing that my doc says probably wont
happen due to muscle mass. I find exercise therapeutic. I actually
enjoy an hr of running Sand hills. Or hopping on the bike with 
Son and Chatting away for 30K
I like being the odd duck out!

I have won 2 challenges with younger guy/girl at the gym--jog
10k with 30Kg (The weight difference between us) and see
how you fare!
Sure from time to time I push --- but the feeling of fitness
far outweighs to odd issue. Knees are good had them CT Scanned
12 mths ago ---just to know---Stretching is the key---still don't
do enough.

My main concern is the fact that it CAN be a sign of Heart---as its in the family
getting it all checked. What ever it is will be caught early enough to do something.

Let you know later but right now seems un related to heart. (but still checking).


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## burglar (2 April 2013)

MrBurns said:


> Looks like I need to lose about 15 kilos



I'm too short for my weight.
I need to go on a rack. 
I need another 5" of height.

Seriously I had pain in the armpit and a tingle in the forearm.
Thought nothing of it till I was at the doctor for unrelated stuff.

Walking a little more often. 
Reducing sugar intake a little.

Not overdoing it though! 
I want to live before I die!


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## Intrinsic Value (2 April 2013)

tech/a said:


> 59,105 kg,6'1
> 
> Male
> Smoked on and off for 35 yrs
> ...




You should get that test done that does a cross section image of your heart. They can see exactly what is going on from that.

You can pass all the other tests but still not get the heart problems diagnosed.

Good luck fortunately you have had some early warning signs others are not so lucky.


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## Intrinsic Value (2 April 2013)

McLovin said:


> Agree, that chart is BS.
> 
> I'm 6ft, the lowest my weight has ever been is ~78kgs and that was when I was at uni and cycling a couple of hours every day. That would still put me in mid to high. I had a resting heart rate back then <40 bpm, apparently I was still unhealthy though.




BMI is rubbish as it is just a statistical average which doesnt measure the most important thing which is body fat and more especially visceral fat. 

Every footballer and gym junkie is obese according to BMI measures as they have weights of 100k plus but importantly their body fat is often only around 10percent. For older guys body fat of around 20 percent is okay.


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## Garpal Gumnut (2 April 2013)

Intrinsic Value said:


> BMI is rubbish as it is just a statistical average which doesnt measure the most important thing which is body fat and more especially visceral fat.
> 
> Every footballer and gym junkie is obese according to BMI measures as they have weights of 100k plus but importantly their body fat is often only around 10percent. For older guys body fat of around 20 percent is okay.




Agree.

BMI is a buy.






gg


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## Muschu (2 April 2013)

Intrinsic Value said:


> You should get that test done that does a cross section image of your heart. They can see exactly what is going on from that.
> 
> You can pass all the other tests but still not get the heart problems diagnosed.
> 
> Good luck fortunately you have had some early warning signs others are not so lucky.




Heart scans are quite controversial.  Here is one discussion and of course there are many more

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/stories/s126910.htm


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## So_Cynical (2 April 2013)

Muschu said:


> Heart scans are quite controversial.  Here is one discussion and of course there are many more
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/stories/s126910.htm




Still its the ultimate non invasive test, can spot many problems before they become life ending.


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## Julia (2 April 2013)

Intrinsic Value said:


> You should get that test done that does a cross section image of your heart. They can see exactly what is going on from that.
> 
> You can pass all the other tests but still not get the heart problems diagnosed.
> 
> Good luck fortunately you have had some early warning signs others are not so lucky.



Tech/A describes some pains in his calf muscles.
I'm not understanding why he and apparently many others are therefore assuming he has heart disease?????


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## burglar (2 April 2013)

Julia said:


> Tech/A describes some pains in his calf muscles.
> I'm not understanding why he and apparently many others are therefore assuming he has heart disease?????



I'm not a doctor ... 

Peripheral Artery Disease


"The most common symptom of PAD is a painful muscle cramping in the hips, thighs or calves when walking, climbing stairs or exercising.

The pain of PAD usually goes away when you stop exercising, although this may take a few minutes. Working muscles need more blood flow (View an animation of blood flow). Resting muscles can get by with less. If there's a blood-flow blockage due to plaque buildup, the muscles won't get enough blood during exercise to meet the needs. The "crampy" pain (called "intermittent claudication"), when caused by PAD, is the muscles' way of warning the body that it isn't receiving enough blood during exercise to meet the increased demand."

Read more:
http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Condi...s-and-Diagnosis-of-PAD_UCM_301306_Article.jsp


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## Julia (2 April 2013)

Peripheral Artery Disease can exist in the absence of heart disease.
Most common cause is smoking.  Gangrene, especially in the presence of diabetes, can be a complication.


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## Calliope (2 April 2013)

Julia said:


> Tech/A describes some pains in his calf muscles.
> I'm not understanding why he and apparently many others are therefore assuming he has heart disease?????




Heart disease sounds more exciting than just being overweight. Obesity does put extra strain on all your body systems including the circulatory system and muscular and joint systems. They all have to do extra work they were not designed for, and of course they protest. If Tech/A had a BMI of 25 we wouldn't be having this discussion.


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## tech/a (3 April 2013)

Julia said:


> Peripheral Artery Disease can exist in the absence of heart disease.
> Most common cause is smoking.  Gangrene, especially in the presence of diabetes, can be a complication.




Highly likely.

Nothing to do with BMI
Everything to do with 
Years of smoking. But will
Know much more in a week.


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## Logique (3 April 2013)

An outside chance is DVT Deep Vein Thrombosis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_vein_thrombosis
Cramped air travel can bring it on.

On that BMI table in posts above, although some criticized it, I find that the High and Target weights are accurate where I'm concerned.


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## Calliope (3 April 2013)

tech/a said:


> Nothing to do with BMI




Of course not. BMI is just a statistical average. Your BMI is the same as an obese bloke weighing 105kg and 1.85m tall because, while he is carrying excess fat you are over muscled.


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## MrBurns (3 April 2013)

Eliminate sugar from your diet and you'll lose weight without doing anything else...........harder then it sounds though, sugar is in many, many things....the rule is if it's tastes sweet don't eat it.

Avoid weight loss foods they are loaded with sugar to keep some taste.


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## tech/a (3 April 2013)

Calliope said:


> Of course not. BMI is just a statistical average. Your BMI is the same as an obese bloke weighing 105kg and 1.85m tall because, while he is carrying excess fat you are over muscled.




I do understand and appreciate your point

According to the doctor I have seen
When asked the specific question 
Weight/Heart disease/Diabeties,his reply was
----due to my Bloods Low cholesterol,no
Sugar issues and Normal Blood Pressure.

The issue was likely to be capillary constriction in
the calf muscle and possibly artery damage
due to prolonged smoking.

Frankly Id love to lose 20kg and I'm sure the 
legs would appreciate less load. 
Training would certainly be easier. Ive just cut out Sugar
headaches to prove it!
and 90% of dairy---very little carbs.

Good to have a wake up call and a full service.
Ultrasound on Friday so the results will tell.
Can only get better----


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## sydboy007 (3 April 2013)

Just walk.  Not much required.

Don't eat too many "bad" foods and you should be right.

I look at my parents.  they're both on the larger side (amazes me though as they are both still quite hard working) but they have good cholesterol etc.


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## tech/a (8 April 2013)

Flew into the VETS.

After a week of tests.
All came back normal.
Ultrasound found nothing.
Stress test wasn't that stressful.
Jogged 12K on Sunday no pain then top dressed the lawn.

Next is a visit to the Podiatrist.
I wear the outside heel out of my trainers.

Dont want to be flying North with a dickey Foot.


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## CanOz (8 April 2013)

tech/a said:


> Flew into the VETS.
> 
> After a week of tests.
> All came back normal.
> ...




Far out, i wish i could jog 12k!

Don't fly too far north, the flu here is a killer!

CanOz


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## tech/a (8 April 2013)

CanOz said:


> Far out, i wish i could jog 12k!
> 
> Don't fly too far north, the flu here is a killer!
> 
> CanOz




Im starting a new fad.

First there is running
Then Jogging
and now
*PLODDING!*


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## Boggo (8 April 2013)

tech/a said:


> Jogged 12K on Sunday no pain then top dressed the lawn.




Not sure about that jogging bizzo tech/a, I got warned off that by both the surgeon and the physio when I buggered up a knee a few years ago. As you get older the muscles can no longer absorb the impact and the joints take the load.

Fast walking with periods of power walking on the flat or constant pace hill walking was the advice I was given.

Cycling too but you already do that.


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## chops_a_must (8 April 2013)

Boggo said:


> Not sure about that jogging bizzo tech/a, I got warned off that by both the surgeon and the physio when I buggered up a knee a few years ago. As you get older the muscles can no longer absorb the impact and the joints take the load.
> 
> Fast walking with periods of power walking on the flat or constant pace hill walking was the advice I was given.
> 
> Cycling too but you already do that.




It depends.

The weight bearing is better for your cartilage. As long as you can control your technique.

I've had 3 arthroscopies and a knee recon, and after the last one, I asked the surgeon if I should stop running. He said definitely not. And to be honest, it feels much better when I'm running regularly. Can't run on hard surfaces though.


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## Boggo (8 April 2013)

chops_a_must said:


> ... Can't run on hard surfaces though.




Yes, I should have clarified, that was a factor regardless of shoe quality.


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## CanOz (8 April 2013)

Yeah, i like the fast / power walking and cycling. Even on non-hard surfaces its painful to run...

I wish that i could run though as its an efficient way to to exercise.

CanOz


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## tech/a (8 April 2013)

Im lucky that I live on the beach Boggo will know Moana.
I do a lot on the beach but quite a bit cross country/sandhills
and road.



> It depends.
> 
> The weight bearing is better for your cartilage. As long as you can control your technique.
> 
> I've had 3 arthroscopies and a knee recon, and after the last one, I asked the surgeon if I should stop running. He said definitely not. And to be honest, it feels much better when I'm running regularly. Can't run on hard surfaces though.




Knees were also a problem.
Had CT scans and my problem was lack of stretching.
I was guilty there.
10 mins stretching before and when I can during as well as
in warm down and all is fine.
Down hills are the only real problem I now find.

Bike is excellent and do a lot around "The Vales".
I can ride 50K through and on bitumen roads and not see
a half dozen cars.

Can Oz can probably do the same thing but see 10000
bicycles!


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## chops_a_must (8 April 2013)

And when I walk on the beach, I have a tendency to get stung.

Ha.


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## CanOz (8 April 2013)

tech/a said:


> Bike is excellent and do a lot around "The Vales".
> I can ride 50K through and on bitumen roads and not see
> a half dozen cars.
> 
> ...




More like Scooters nowadays...the bike is fun, i like the type of exercise that you don't really know your doing because your too distracted...Also love the stationary cycles with the TVs on them, can easily lose 30-45 minutes watching the Bloomy on one. They're not cheap though, like 5000 USD for a good one. Maybe one day when i have real cable again.

CanOz


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## chops_a_must (8 April 2013)

CanOz said:


> More like Scooters nowadays...the bike is fun, i like the type of exercise that you don't really know your doing because your too distracted...Also love the stationary cycles with the TVs on them, can easily lose 30-45 minutes watching the Bloomy on one. They're not cheap though, like 5000 USD for a good one. Maybe one day when i have real cable again.
> 
> CanOz




Can always just get a good trainer to put your pushsickle on.

It's great for watching the cycling season.


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## moXJO (8 April 2013)

chops_a_must said:


> It depends.
> 
> The weight bearing is better for your cartilage. As long as you can control your technique.
> 
> I've had 3 arthroscopies and a knee recon, and after the last one, I asked the surgeon if I should stop running. He said definitely not. And to be honest, it feels much better when I'm running regularly. Can't run on hard surfaces though.




I hear its better to run toe to heel rather than heel to toe any idea if it's better on the knees?


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## chops_a_must (8 April 2013)

moXJO said:


> I hear its better to run toe to heel rather than heel to toe any idea if it's better on the knees?




I think so. If you're landing on your heel, you're going to jar your legs.

I always just start out with the cliff young shuffle, keeping everything close and in line. And then start to expand it out once I've got a bit of strength back.


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## CanOz (8 April 2013)

moXJO said:


> I hear its better to run toe to heel rather than heel to toe any idea if it's better on the knees?




Hmm, interesting....maybe that's been my problem. How the heck can you run toe to heal?


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## Porper (8 April 2013)

CanOz said:


> Hmm, interesting....maybe that's been my problem. How the heck can you run toe to heal?




Easy...run backwards


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## CanOz (8 April 2013)

chops_a_must said:


> I think so. If you're landing on your heel, you're going to jar your legs.
> 
> I always just start out with the cliff young shuffle, keeping everything close and in line. And then start to expand it out once I've got a bit of strength back.




Hmm, can you explain? Maybe we should start a jogging thread!


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## CanOz (8 April 2013)

Porper said:


> Easy...run backwards




Lol...that's what they do here


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## chops_a_must (8 April 2013)

CanOz said:


> Hmm, interesting....maybe that's been my problem. How the heck can you run toe to heal?




How can you not?

I take it you weren't much of a sprinter?

Heel striking ends up giving you a lot of calf and achilles problems and tightness.


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## moXJO (8 April 2013)

When you run barefoot you naturally run toe to heel. Olympic sprinters also run with toe striking first. I think there are shoes specifically for it. Uses the calves more or something I can't remember. Does put more strain on your achilles though.


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## Boggo (8 April 2013)

moXJO said:


> When you run barefoot you naturally run toe to heel. Olympic sprinters also run with toe striking first. *I think there are shoes specifically for it.* Uses the calves more or something I can't remember. Does put more strain on your achilles though.




Are these the ones you mean moXJO


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## 56gsa (18 April 2013)

interesting doco ... 3 minutes a week is all you need!

SBS: Documentary - The Truth About Exercise 
www.sbs.com.au/documentary/program/1087


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## noirua (11 January 2014)

Atrial Fibrillation -- If you suffer from occasional upper chest pain or/and breathlessness you may have Atrial Fibrillation that you know nothing about. This is a raised beat rate of the heart at up to 200 beats per minute.
If you do nothing about it you will have a stroke or suffer heart failure, so get checked out.

UK Prime Minister Tony Blair suffers from this, being rushed to hospital when in office. It is increasing rapidly and if you think you suffer from this, do something about it NOW:
What Is Atrial Fibrillation? - NHLBI, NIH
http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/health-topics/topics/af/

Heart conditions - atrial fibrillation | Better Health Channel
http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Heart_conditions_atrial_fibrillation

Atrial Fibrillation and Heart Ablation - Understand Causes, Symptoms, Treatment - YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkpkpsKTJZQ


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## johenmo (15 January 2014)

Genetics is a major influencing factor.  If you have crappy heart disease genetics, then a healthy diet n exercise merely slows CAD.  Can't underestimate the benefit of *regular* exercise.  Have an annual stress echo if that's the case.


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## macca (12 October 2019)

I thought this article interesting

Big pharma has to look after their own interests, supplement manufacturers can't patent healthy eating and so this sort of info is rarely published

<<
* Story at-a-glance *

The most significant risk factors of cardiovascular disease are insulin resistance, Type 2 diabetes and chronic inflammation
The documentary “Heart of the Matter” exposes the saturated fat/cholesterol myths behind the statin fad and the financial links which lurk beneath
The research by physiologist Ancel Benjamin Keys establishing the saturated fat/cholesterol theory omitted results from 16 countries
Replacing saturated fats with double-bonded transfats is a health risk
Polyunsaturated, omega 6 fats oxidize and become rancid, causing inflammation
The worldwide success of dangerous and ineffective statins rests on poor science>>

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/...n=20191012Z3&et_cid=DM363644&et_rid=727000250


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## IFocus (14 October 2019)

I read through that Macca and also some of the links and to be honest found it very convoluted.

I have cardiovascular disease with a narrowing in the LAD had two stents put in last year so take a very keen interest in the subject.

I was not over weight, had a high level of fitness, no insulin resistance, cholesterol  levels well within general guide lines and ate a healthy diet.

BTW also had no symptoms.

However both my parents have CVD and it goes back generations.

Had some solid conversations with two cardiologists one a Associate Professor the other 20 years experience about the latest science.

Both were adamant that Statins are to reduce the LDL (you are still producing just less) but also a aggressive reduction in sugars and low GI foods is required as well.

Its the combination that's effective not just taking Statins.

I was completely unaware that sugars and low GI were a major issue.

The disease carries on and you keep the accumulation of plaque but just try to slow down the process it also predisposes you to stroke as well.

Mum had a triple bypass at around 60 took statins and changed her diet still going physically strong at 88.


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## macca (15 October 2019)

Hi IF,

I mainly posted the link to give some air to alternative views to the stuck in the past mainstream " Doctors are Gods" which exist in Oz

I suffer from a chronic complaint (not heart) that does not exist according to Docs in Australia, the fact that Cedar Sinai, Hopkins and Mayo clinics have ample reading on it in the USA, has not reached the Docs here in Oz yet.

I find that annoying


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## IFocus (15 October 2019)

Macca you have my total sympathy I have a nephew similar situation to yourself chronic condition not recognised here diagnosed in the US no problem, treatment options here really difficult.

Interestingly Aus specialists reports contradicting their own research papers pretty unbelievable.


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## qldfrog (15 October 2019)

IFocus said:


> I read through that Macca and also some of the links and to be honest found it very convoluted.
> 
> I have cardiovascular disease with a narrowing in the LAD had two stents put in last year so take a very keen interest in the subject.
> 
> ...



Have you studied the link between stress and high blood pressure with your condition
From far, that is what seems to be the real cause, and statins are useless 
Same frequency of cardiac illness before massive statin usage and after usage in a massive Scottish study i read


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## jjbinks (15 October 2019)

qldfrog said:


> From far, that is what seems to be the real cause, and statins are useless
> Same frequency of cardiac illness before massive statin usage and after usage in a massive Scottish study i read




Just be careful about what you read. There are 1000's of studies about statins, cholesterol and heart disease.

Best to follow your doctor's advice. Get a second opinion if you have doubts. 

Statins may not be very helpful for someone at low risk of a cardiovascular disease. (i.e. young, non-smoker and otherwise healthy)
BUT if you have established coronary artery disease then there are many randomised control trials which show that statins reduce the risk of cardiovascular events. 

@tech/a 
Hopefuly test results are OK. TBH you seem to have a fair few things in your favour including the fact that you haven't smoked for 5 years!! When it comes to heart disease after 3-5 years of quiting your risk is very similar to someone who never smoked. 
Good luck with losing weight.


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## tech/a (15 October 2019)

Thanks jj

I’m fine as far as I know 
Haven’t smoked for 11 years 
No heart issues.
I’m a pretty big guy anyway so while I’m 107 kg 
I’m still training 4 hrs a week in Martial Arts 
Golf but that’s really a 4 hr walk 

Pulmonary lung disease is a bugger I blow out pretty 
Quickly when going hard but can go hard for quite a while.

Having never drunk or been a coffee drinker I think 
Have been saviours.


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## IFocus (16 October 2019)

qldfrog said:


> Have you studied the link between stress and high blood pressure with your condition
> From far, that is what seems to be the real cause, and statins are useless
> Same frequency of cardiac illness before massive statin usage and after usage in a massive Scottish study i read




My blood pressure is and has always been normal. I didn't have any symptoms or indicators that I would have a problem nothing, nada zero, medical staff that access me as I went though the testing all said I shouldn't have been there........except the cardiologist who had no doubt.

My problem would appear to genetic.

I don't question that statins may have been over prescribed which is common the current issues around pain killers is typical pushed by the pharmaceutical company what a mess.

Everyone is different one solution isn't a always a panacea for all

In my case before and after blood tests show I am now in the best range to manage my CVD, statins helped achieve that  and are only a part of the solution (maybe 30% ish) diet / exercise / weight, life style which are now far more aggressive than the "normal" make up the rest.

To me Statins play a small role (still important) and are only part of the management of which you need to establish and measure not just take a pill because some one in a white coat tells you to.

Interestingly most of the people I meet with stents take Statins and do nothing else usually still over weight and still eating the same low GI high sugar diet / no exercise.


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## qldfrog (16 October 2019)

IFocus said:


> Interestingly most of the people I meet with stents take Statins and do nothing else usually still over weight and still eating the same low GI high sugar diet / no exercise.



And i suspect their statins taking will not change a thing to their outcome
Obviously, every one is different
Thanks for your input
Are you a stressed person if i can ask?


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## IFocus (16 October 2019)

qldfrog said:


> And i suspect their statins taking will not change a thing to their outcome
> Obviously, every one is different
> Thanks for your input
> Are you a stressed person if i can ask?




I would say I am pretty easy going certainly had that reputation at work never one to lose my temper always remained up beat never focused on the negatives  etc, but unfortunately I worked in a very stressed environment surrounded by people blowing up or near to it so that would have had an impact.

I am currently selling and moving wife is pretty stressed about the process I am not bothered.

Stress would have played a part but in the end I think I just got the short straw


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## IFocus (16 October 2019)

tech/a said:


> Thanks jj
> 
> Having never drunk or been a coffee drinker I think
> Have been saviours.




Why do you say that....asks a coffee drinker (i cup a day)


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## qldfrog (16 October 2019)

IFocus said:


> I would say I am pretty easy going certainly had that reputation at work never one to lose my temper always remained up beat never focused on the negatives  etc, but unfortunately I worked in a very stressed environment surrounded by people blowing up or near to it so that would have had an impact.
> 
> I am currently selling and moving wife is pretty stressed about the process I am not bothered.
> 
> Stress would have played a part but in the end I think I just got the short straw



Sorry to hear, not much we can do on own genes..I suspect stress will be my killer.Time will tell
Much appreciated these few open exchanges as I want to open my mind in an area where I am not really knowledgeable


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## tech/a (16 October 2019)

IFocus said:


> Why do you say that....asks a coffee drinker (i cup a day)




Two less habits I guess.


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## jjbinks (16 October 2019)

There's some data that coffee drinkers have better long term health/live longer.
But you got to be skeptical. (Similar to news about red wine and chocolate being good for your health lol)

Probably not a good reason to pick up the habit.


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## chiff (17 October 2019)

jjbinks said:


> There's some data that coffee drinkers have better long term health/live longer.
> But you got to be skeptical. (Similar to news about red wine and chocolate being good for your health lol)
> 
> Probably not a good reason to pick up the habit.



I heard somewhere that if one could do forty push-ups you should have a "strong heart".


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## IFocus (17 October 2019)

qldfrog said:


> Sorry to hear, not much we can do on own genes..I suspect stress will be my killer.Time will tell
> Much appreciated these few open exchanges as I want to open my mind in an area where I am not really knowledgeable




Stress is with us ever step of the way through our lives good stress / bad stress and really difficult to address as its part of who we are and how we identify ours selves to others.

That's before we get to the environment that we operate in relationships, work, health, money and here as traders.

Its also the "everyone is different" to some extent as well different triggers set different people off.

But it is some thing we can change finding the way is the tricky bit I stumbled on to the path for myself.

One of the things I did as a trader 15 - 20 years ago was go on the mental training journey to deal with all the sins a trader faces "trading psychology" to improve my results. 

Read more than 30 plus books on the matter both for trading and psychology attended countless seminars, read a lot of research papers etc, I also had some problem employees doing stuff I just couldn't understand so that was also an area of study that crossed over, most of this I have now forgotten until now as I write this post.

It actually had a bigger impact on my over all thinking rather than trading (the answer for trading was far simpler) along the way BTW a Frenchman taught me how to laugh  that was pretty big.

The process taught me how to think, why my brain made the decisions it did and how I could start to try making the decisions based on logic more so than emotional. 

I don't think I could achieve a Spock type level but it has dropped the stress levels dramatically at least for me also watching others than remain calm not getting engaged in angry situations etc also was inspiring.

I am still the same person still same beliefs values etc but smile before getting upset or stressed (Balinese taught me that) laugh instead of getting angry (that Frenchman) speak nicely to all and above all enjoy be positive and be happy ( Dalai lama) 

Short life, long death

End of spiel


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## IFocus (17 October 2019)

chiff said:


> I heard somewhere that if one could do forty push-ups you should have a "strong heart".




Also helps your surfing quite a lot as you spring to your feet going over the edge the faster and smoother the better you set yourself to make the wave

Launching in the "Mentawai Islands " Indonesia


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## noirua (25 April 2020)

This 'British Heart Foundation' website can be very useful for anyone. Marked 'British' but a heart is the same the world over and might well help on advice where ever you are.
https://healthunlocked.com/bhf/post...bhf-cardiac-nurses-got-a-question-let-us-know


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## finicky (18 September 2020)

Big meta analysis (pooling data from many past clinical studies and applying it to resolve a question) under the aegis of the Mayo Cinic and building on a similar but smaller Harvard meta analysis. As I am 99.9% vegan I have been taking algal EPA/DHA supplements that I get from iHerb but appears I have been taking maybe a quarter of what is optimal. Using flax seed daily for ALA helps we're told but conversion of the oil in flax to the longer chain Omega 3's is low. The main action of these Omega 3's is apparently to reduce inflammation of the delicate lining of the blood vessels. Not to do with this study but another thing to do is throw out your vegetable oils and use olive oil, or if you must, canola oil as the others contain so much Omega 6's which are inflammatory and compete with Omega 3's.

*Authoritative New Analysis Links Omega-3 Supplements to Cardioprotection and Improved Heart Health*


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## Knobby22 (18 September 2020)

Omega 3, available from fish, lamb, grass grown beef, kangaroo. brussell sprouts. (love all of these)
Avoid grain fed, e.g. Chicken. Pork, cured meats.


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## finicky (18 September 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Omega 3, available from fish, lamb, grass grown beef, kangaroo. brussell sprouts. (love all of these)
> Avoid grain fed, e.g. Chicken. Pork, cured meats.





I should have pointed out that the headline I put is linked to the article. Excerpt below concludes that the more omega-3 the better within the ranges tested and that to get really effective amounts people should consider supplementing to get to 1,000-2,000 mg. You'd need to eat at least a can of sardines every day or two small cans of mackerel or salmon to get to 1,000 mg by my rough reckoning. Double that if you want to get to 2,000 mg (more is better) No way you'd get anywhere near optimal by eating lamb or the rest. Fish only get omega-3's from eating algae, they don't make it themselves. For roughly $1.50 a day you can supplement with DHA/EPA rich algal oil and get your optimal amount.


From ABC: Fish has levels of about 200 milligrams of *omega*-*3* per 100 grams, scientists have boosted the levels in *lamb* to between 30 and 40 milligrams per serve, and hope to double it again in the future.


From the article:


Cardiovascular benefits appear to increase with dosage. The researchers found that adding an extra 1000 mg of EPA and DHA per day decreased the risk of cardiovascular disease and heart attack even more: risk of cardiovascular disease events decreased by 5.8 percent and risk for heart attack decreased by 9.0 percent. The study looked at dosages of up to 5500 mg/day.


“People should consider the benefits of omega-3 supplements, at doses of 1000 to 2000 mg per day – far higher than what is typical, even among people who regularly eat fish,” added Dr. Lavie. “Given the safety and diminished potential for interaction with other medications, the positive results of this study strongly suggest omega-3 supplements are a relatively low-cost, high impact way to improve heart health with few associated risks and should be considered as part of a standard preventive treatment for most patients with cardiovascular diseases and those recovering from myocardial infarction.”


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## Knobby22 (18 September 2020)

Yea, don't like supplements. They often find out unwanted side effects occur sometime in the future. e.g. the Beta Carotene (giving you cancer) and Vitamin B3,B6 issues (causing liver damage). Iron supplements don't work well etc. How do you know you can get it properly from algae, wouldn't sardines be better?
Did they use hat particular supplement in the study?


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## finicky (18 September 2020)

Sardines should be fine but as expressed you'd need at least a can every day to match a low end optimal dose of algal omega-3 (1,000 mg)
Don't know which ones were used in the studies - it was a 'meta-analysis' of 40 historic trials so multiple sources. The brand in the pic is the highest recommended on iHerb fwiw. I am also wary of supps and only take VitB12, Vit D3, DHA/EPA, Vit K2 and green ladyfinger banana fibre. I suspect there's more risk from prescribed medications than most supps although supps are under regulated admittedly. Algal oil is pretty basic - just oil extracted from algae in cold conditions (I hope). You have to make your luck.


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## noirua (28 January 2021)

Adrian Campos dead: Former F1 driver and team boss dies aged 60 (msn.com)
Campos Racing, who have teams in the Formula Two and Three support series, said in a statement on Thursday that their founder had passed away from "sudden coronary disease".


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## noirua (31 January 2021)

*Try an online home workout* – home workouts can be great, and there are so many different ones to try. Getting inspired to work out on your own can be tough though, so why not get a little support from an online instructor? 

There are loads of great workout apps you can download, or just go to YouTube and search for the type of workout you’re looking for and you’ll find loads of easy-to-follow videos, for all abilities and interests. 

If you’re not sure where to start, type in ‘beginner workouts’ and just try a few different things until you find what you enjoy.


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## noirua (5 May 2022)

What You Should Know About Heart Failure
					

Heart failure is a serious condition, but you can lead a fulfilling life with it. Learn the symptoms, treatments, and more from this WebMD slideshow.




					www.webmd.com


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## wayneL (22 September 2022)

61, 171cm, ~75kg not on any medication at all.

I was setting up a blood pressure machine for FIL and took mine to check how the machine worked.

117/67 pulse 55

Not bad I thought, not bad. @PZ99 will have to keep me on ignore for a while yet


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## finicky (22 September 2022)

wayneL said:


> 117/67 pulse 55



That is excellent. You're lucky unless very disciplined. Someone I know consistently gets those readings and doesn't do anything much to warrant it; she's 78 ffs.


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## PZ99 (23 September 2022)

Blood pressure usually gets lower as you get older.

@wayneL  the only reason I have you on ignore is because you have a strange obsession with the TDS label which you overuse when others criticise Trump and that's bad for your blood pressure 

PZ99 wishes everyone here the best of health regardless of their opinions...


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## Belli (23 September 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> Omega 3




_*"there is little or no effect of omega 3 supplements on our risk of experiencing heart disease, stroke or death."*_










						New Cochrane health evidence challenges belief that omega 3 supplements reduce risk of heart disease, stroke or death
					

New evidence published today shows there is little or no effect of omega 3 supplements on our risk of experiencing heart disease, stroke or death.




					www.cochrane.org


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## wayneL (23 September 2022)

finicky said:


> That is excellent. You're lucky unless very disciplined. Someone I know consistently gets those readings and doesn't do anything much to warrant it; she's 78 ffs.



I do have good genes for heart health as a starting point for sure, but apart from enjoying a drink, have always been pretty disciplined with lifestyle too... Not completely ascetic mind you, just what I think is sensible.


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## Knobby22 (23 September 2022)

Belli said:


> _*"there is little or no effect of omega 3 supplements on our risk of experiencing heart disease, stroke or death."*_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree Belli. Good post.

Taking supplements have little if any effect. Most supplements just give you expensive urine or make you sick. Some will give you cancer. I am against them.

I believe taking vitamin tablets/fish oil is bad for you in almost every case except maybe Vitamin D.

It's about food. Grass fed beef not grain fed. Olives. Leafy vegetables etc.
I thought there was a meditteranean  lifestyle study  that showed this.

However heart disease seems often to relate to inflammation and actually diet may have only have a small influence. Virus levels for instance may be more relevant. Still if you eat trans fats...

(Despite this I don't always eat well. Western lifestyle  food, e.g. a Parma and Pint are alluring.)


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## Belli (23 September 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> I agree Belli. Good post.
> 
> Taking supplements have little if any effect. Most supplements just give you expensive urine or make you sick. Some will give you cancer. I am against them.
> 
> ...




I tend to go to Chochrane whenever people I meet start pronouncing various solutions to health issues.  The reason is it undertakes a meta-analysis of available research on the subject.  It doesn't dismiss everything out of hand but suggests on a number of subjects there is insufficient research to be able to draw a conclusion.

He he.  A group of old farts chatting over coffee about their various health ailments isn't a randomised control group.


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## finicky (23 September 2022)

I had seen articles disputing benefits to the cardiovascular system from omega 3 supplementation but can't remember whether it was after I posted or if I chose to go with the other still live view. I've been vegan for years but saw a video way back ascribing possible reasons for plant eaters not being particularly healthy or long lived. One was the use of omega 6 oils unbalanced by omega 3s leading to an inflammatory state. So anyway I have continued supplementing with algal oil - seems harmless at worst. Also reluctantly eating a bit of fish now. I eat handfuls of supplements every day though so if I suddenly stop posting you'll know why - it won't be Rona or the jab. Coffee and uncritical social interaction has been linked to healthspan ☕

My go to authority on nutrition speaks on the subject - benefits 3m25s


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## finicky (5 October 2022)

Seems worth looking into. Article from Medical Journal Australia.
Big study with significant heart and all cause death benefits from switching
Checked out iHerb and have only found things like Himalayan and Mediterranean salt in groceries. Only potassium chloride is in supplements section.








						Every adult should consider switch to potassium-enriched salt - InSight+
					

The simplicity of the intervention and the joint benefits of salt sodium reduction and potassium supplementation provide for a very high likelihood of success, writes Bruce Neal



					insightplus.mja.com.au


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