# Which house do you prefer?



## insider (8 May 2007)

Hello fellow ASF members. I'd like to conduct a poll as part of research a research project. I must state that I will use the results from the poll as data for analysis and perhaps consider quoting some ASF members. As part of Ethical Considerations I must stress that this report will not be published so nobody will be made accountable for negative and or damaging remarks. 



Do the general public prefer a 'Cheap Mass Produced Metricon flavor of the month House' ($300,000 including land) or are people prepared to spend a bit more on a 'Custom Built Timeless House' ($375,000)?

I must STRESS both Houses are both 200 Square Meters in size with equal number of rooms and car spaces.

Please Give feed back as to why you made that choice. cheers 

Keep the budget in mind?


----------



## imajica (8 May 2007)

both of these designs look generic and mass produced - you see millions of these houses next to each other on new subdivisions in western sydney 

the one on the right is more aesthetically pleasing, if I only had these two to choose from


----------



## insider (9 May 2007)

imajica said:


> both of these designs look generic and mass produced - you see millions of these houses next to each other on new subdivisions in western sydney
> 
> the one on the right is more aesthetically pleasing, if I only had these two to choose from




You're right they are quite generic... However that is really due to the price bracket...


----------



## ghotib (9 May 2007)

What's the research project Insider? 

I voted, but there's no way I'd ever choose a house solely on price plus how the front looks from the outside. Or on the peculiar names that developers give them. 

My vote is for the Metricon house, purely because I prefer a horizontal feel to a vertical one. I note that both have miserably inadequate eaves and that the "timeless" (eh???) would be unbearably hot if it faced anywhere except due south, in which case it would be unbearably cold, unless it was in the tropics, in which case it would be unbearable period. 

Maybe you could research these houses:  http://www.ralhomes.com.au

Cheers

Ghoti


----------



## Julia (9 May 2007)

I voted for the Metricon house on the ouside view but I'd never buy a house on the basis of what it looked like from the outside.

Only reason is the Metricon house has wider eaves.  Ghoti has pointed out reason for the importance of this.


----------



## insider (9 May 2007)

I may have ruined the poll by putting in the pictures... I might have to re do the poll


----------



## insider (9 May 2007)

ghotib said:


> What's the research project Insider?
> 
> I voted, but there's no way I'd ever choose a house solely on price plus how the front looks from the outside. Or on the peculiar names that developers give them.
> 
> ...




Again I should probably remove the pictures... People are focusing too much on it...

The research project I'm doing is 'How do you add value to houses through design?'


----------



## Taurisk (9 May 2007)

insider said:


> Hello fellow ASF members.
> 
> Please Give feed back as to why you made that choice. cheers
> 
> Keep the budget in mind?




Hello Insider

I have just bought a basic Australian house from the 60s and lived in a large house with high ceilings before.  Both have/had eaves.

My choice here is the Metricon house; it looks like it is more energy-efficient because of the large roof space, which acts as insulation.  The 'timeless' house has more glass and higher ceilings; it will need more air-conditioning and heating.  The lack of eaves on the cheaper house is easily overcome by attaching some pergolas where needed and growing a creeper over it that loses it's leaves in winter.  In fact one can dress this house up easily; and with the right use of colours can make it look very modern, whereas the 'timeless' house will actually date very quickly.

I must say, though, that I do miss the high ceilings in my present house, but I'm working on views from the windows to replace that.

Cheers

Taurisk


----------



## Taurisk (9 May 2007)

ghotib said:


> What's the research project Insider?
> 
> I voted, but there's no way I'd ever choose a house solely on price plus how the front looks from the outside. Or on the peculiar names that developers give them.
> 
> ...




Hi Ghoti

I had a look at 'ralhomes' - great idea and great interior spaces, but I am not at all sure about the cladding for the roof - metal roofing is fairly hot stuff, but then it cools down quickly as well - good insulation needed.  From the outside there is also the Nissen hut look - they are also not really cheap -
but thanks for posting that link - I have a friend who might be interested.

Taurisk


----------



## insider (9 May 2007)

Taurisk said:


> Hello Insider
> 
> I have just bought a basic Australian house from the 60s and lived in a large house with high ceilings before.  Both have/had eaves.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the input... Well all new houses must acquire a 5 star energy rating so even though one house may have more windows they might be double glazed which is much better than most conventional windows....

I need someone to remove the pictures because a lot of people are voting based on their favorite style house and not on 'service and quality' vs 'Budget'.


----------



## CanOz (9 May 2007)

Taurisk said:


> Hi Ghoti
> 
> I had a look at 'ralhomes' - great idea and great interior spaces, but I am not at all sure about the cladding for the roof - metal roofing is fairly hot stuff, but then it cools down quickly as well - good insulation needed.  From the outside there is also the Nissen hut look - they are also not really cheap -
> but thanks for posting that link - I have a friend who might be interested.
> ...




This is a RAL that i Built in Victoria with the help of a RAL builder. A great home, fantastic living experience. Its for SALE too i hear.

Cheers,


----------



## imajica (9 May 2007)

these guys know aesthetics

http://www.signaturehomes.com.au/


----------



## surfingman (9 May 2007)

I couldn't find the option to vote on the Queensland style house, my favorite by far has a little more character than concrete render.

I believe a way of adding value to the house is through the uniqueness of a home, not a package home as the quality is usually not as high as it should be either.


----------



## insider (9 May 2007)

imajica said:


> these guys know aesthetics
> 
> http://www.signaturehomes.com.au/



If that's what you like you should've ticked the custom home... don't know if you did... Those houses are very nice with heaps of detail... A customized home will generally have more detail where as a Metricon nasty is reminiscent of a shoe box


----------



## marklar (9 May 2007)

I actually don't like any of the newer bv houses, they all seem rather slapped together and barely made to last.  I had a house built in 1997 and sold it 7 years later and it was already starting to deteriorate badly.

Does anyone do double-brick these days? I know there are companies that will do concrete slab designs (they pour the walls flat like a slab, then get a crane & stand them up) but they're probably rather expensive.

m.


----------



## insider (9 May 2007)

marklar said:


> I actually don't like any of the newer bv houses, they all seem rather slapped together and barely made to last.  I had a house built in 1997 and sold it 7 years later and it was already starting to deteriorate badly.
> 
> Does anyone do double-brick these days? I know there are companies that will do concrete slab designs (they pour the walls flat like a slab, then get a crane & stand them up) but they're probably rather expensive.
> 
> m.




A double skin brick wall is pretty expensive... and usually crack easier than brick veneer (timber stud walls)... Concrete tilt up panels is what your talking about... You'll have investigate it because they're usually used in high rises and sometimes cranes can't maneuverer the panels due to site location ... you can get 20mm brick faces put into a concrete tilt up panel so it looks like a brick wall... Concrete tilt up panels are better for commercial sites for the simple fact that they can be manufactured off site and be brought in later.


----------



## tech/a (9 May 2007)

As a developer and a Property investor,you will be better served with option 2

Building my own ponderosa myself now that Ive defeated council after 2.5 yrs of battle.


----------



## constable (9 May 2007)

tech/a said:


> As a developer and a Property investor,you will be better served with option 2
> 
> Building my own ponderosa myself now that Ive defeated council after 2.5 yrs of battle.




Proof God exists, because nobody beats the council!


----------



## Smurf1976 (9 May 2007)

I'd be going for whichever is the better designed and built house since the price difference isn't huge in overall terms.

I'd be specifically looking at things that are hard to change. Rendering over bricks, installing more efficient heating, planting trees and so on are things that can always be changed later. But you can't so easily change the basic structure of the house, which way it faces etc.

I'm not too keen on house energy ratings by the way. Better than nothing but I've seen examples of "green" houses with some incredibly inefficient technology built-in to the house undoing most of the benefits of an otherwise good design. The focus largely on design only fails to pick this up.


----------



## tech/a (9 May 2007)

constable said:


> Proof God exists, because nobody beats the council!





I employed the DUCATI principal.
debate debate debate.
reference anything that is remotely applicable,
employ experts,better than they have.
When they role up to court with their solicitor
role up with 2 of yours.
Always be accomodating even to the sickening extreme.(Learnt that ploy from a few here---thanks! You know who you are!).
Never give up even if all seems lost.---Thanks Kris.

So ASF has been a great help!


----------



## ghotib (9 May 2007)

insider said:


> Again I should probably remove the pictures... People are focusing too much on it...
> 
> The research project I'm doing is 'How do you add value to houses through design?'



Oh.  

OK.  

Ummmmmmm...  

Doesn't it depend on what people perceive as "design"? I'm sorry if I'm being thick about this, but I really think that good design is quite independent of price. To me, a well-designed house is easy to live in, easy to maintain, and 
easy for guests. Alignment, floor plan, airflow, natural light, and intelligent placement of utilities are by far the most important aspects of design in my book, followed closely by materials. I could get those things right or wrong at pretty well any price and in any style.  

Does that fit with what you're thinking about, or am I on a different line of thought altogether?

Ghoti


----------



## ghotib (9 May 2007)

CanOz said:


> This is a RAL that i Built in Victoria with the help of a RAL builder. A great home, fantastic living experience. Its for SALE too i hear.
> 
> Cheers,



You BUILT a RAL. Omigosh that's the most exciting news I've heard since whoever invented the Quonsett hut. 

How long did you live in it? How did you find it? Were the curved walls a problem? How many rooms did you have, and in which modules? Why have you moved? How was resale? Would you live in one again? 

I've been eyeing these things for several months, and we intend to visit the company some time this year. One of the attractions to me is that they seem very practical for bushfire areas. OTOH I have trouble figuring out a floor plan that puts the all the windows where I want them? 

Maybe it's time for a separate thread on kit/modular homes?

Ghoti


----------



## ghotib (9 May 2007)

Taurisk said:


> Hi Ghoti
> 
> I had a look at 'ralhomes' - great idea and great interior spaces, but I am not at all sure about the cladding for the roof - metal roofing is fairly hot stuff, but then it cools down quickly as well - good insulation needed.  From the outside there is also the Nissen hut look - they are also not really cheap -
> but thanks for posting that link - I have a friend who might be interested.
> ...




Hi Taurisk,

They're interesting aren't they. They claim very good insulation as standard; there's a cross section in the "Energy" section which seems to show 2 layers of fibreglass batts, a reflective barrier, and an air gap between the outer skin and the lining. But a lot would depend on alignment.

Cheers,

Ghoti


----------



## Flying Fish (9 May 2007)

Gee another poll Fantastic.


----------



## Flying Fish (9 May 2007)

So with these ral homes is the water mains or do they throw in a tank as well?  Actually why bother with the tank, I guess you'd be livin in one


----------



## stockGURU (9 May 2007)

I don't understand.... now that the photos are gone all we have to go on is price?

How can anyone possibly make an informed decision without even floor plans to look at?


----------



## insider (10 May 2007)

stockGURU said:


> I don't understand.... now that the photos are gone all we have to go on is price?
> 
> How can anyone possibly make an informed decision without even floor plans to look at?




A metricon home represents budget and mass production catering for the masses. For every 100 Metricon houses 4 of them will be identical to yours

A customized home represents the unique needs tastes that the occupant searches for. When appointing a designer you're getting quality and service... usually anyway


----------



## ghotib (10 May 2007)

insider said:


> A metricon home represents budget and mass production catering for the masses. For every 100 Metricon houses 4 of them will be identical to yours



Yabbut if it's a well-designed mass produced house that suits me why should I care that when it was brand new it was identical to 4 - or even a 100 - houses when they were brand new. They won't be identical for long. 



> A customized home represents the unique needs tastes that the occupant searches for. When appointing a designer you're getting quality and service... usually anyway




What does a designer do for a new house that an architect doesn't? In fact, when it comes to houses what's the difference between a designer and an architect? 

Why is quality and service from a designer more important than quality and service from the builder, plumber, electrician, tiler, roofer etc.? 

You said your research question is 'How do you add value to houses through design?'. You also said 'a lot of people are voting based on their favorite style house and not on 'service and quality' vs 'Budget'.' Isn't style a significant part of design? 

It almost sounds as if you've decided that design = service and quality, which seems too general to be useful. Most people who are trying to sell you something will include service and quality in the pitch.

Is this a marketing question? I'm expecting to buy or build a home within the next couple of years so I'm very attuned to the subject, but I really don't understand the choices you've offered. If there's a marketing message, it's whooshed straight past me. If you're looking for a way to sell me design services you need to find a way to tell me what they are, as well as why I want them.

HTH

Ghoti


----------



## CanOz (10 May 2007)

ghotib said:


> You BUILT a RAL. Omigosh that's the most exciting news I've heard since whoever invented the Quonsett hut.
> 
> How long did you live in it? How did you find it? Were the curved walls a problem? How many rooms did you have, and in which modules? Why have you moved? How was resale? Would you live in one again?
> 
> ...




Hi Ghoti, i lived in it for about 12 months before personal circumstances changed and i moved on. We sold it for cost to build, but its put on another 25% according to the Vendors current price. I had been looking at RAL's for a long time and the visit to Ararat sealed it for me. Reini (not sure if spelled right) is the owner and he was fantastic with his support, he truely loves and believes in his product. It was a three bedroom RAL. The master bedroom had an ensuite that also joined onto the laundry room to serve as the main toilet as well. The kitchen was huge with nearly 6 meters of benches and a really cool free hanging stainless steel range hood. 

I insulated the floor with a mate, once that was done it was very cozy, even with it being on top of a hill amongst the Iron Barks.

They are easy to live in, you don't notice the walls. It was cooled with a single split system, and heated with a small wood heater. I loved the smell of the timber inside. The floors were the original plywood, but polished and they looked really good. The windows were only single glased after a misunderstanding, i had wanted double glased and they were not that much more money. I installed a BOSE LifeStyle 5 sound system to take advantage of the great accoustics, it was awesome.

It is so well insulated that you could just barely hear the rain on the roof, somewhat disappointing for that reason, but very warm.

If you have any other queries PM me and i would be happy to provide other details and photos etc. I feel bad for hijacking Insider's thread, sorry mate.

Cheers,


----------



## ghotib (10 May 2007)

Yeah sorry Insider. I didn't mean to hijack the thread either. I get excited by houses. 

Ghoti.


----------



## insider (10 May 2007)

ghotib said:


> Yeah sorry Insider. I didn't mean to hijack the thread either. I get excited by houses.
> 
> Ghoti.




Nope... it's perfectly OK with me... Hi jack it as much as you like because there are some good points and invaluable research being conducted here...  Thanks heaps


----------



## insider (10 May 2007)

I posted the same topic at the Somersoft Investment Property forum

Here the link

http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?p=290714#post290714


----------



## insider (10 May 2007)

CanOz said:


> This is a RAL that i Built in Victoria with the help of a RAL builder. A great home, fantastic living experience. Its for SALE too i hear.
> 
> Cheers,




You can build a house using shipping containers... it's cheaper than a Ral... I think... very cool stuff

Check out these concepts

http://www.containerarchitecture.co.nz/


----------



## insider (10 May 2007)




----------



## insider (12 May 2007)

If any ASF members haven't voted yet please do so... thank you


----------



## CanOz (12 May 2007)

insider said:


>




Looks like it has a 'drive thru' too!


----------



## insider (16 May 2007)

insider said:


> If any ASF members haven't voted yet please do so... thank you


----------



## ghotib (16 May 2007)

And then you'll tell us what it's all told you and what the project is part of? 

Also what a designer does? 

Also (this is a new one) is there a difference between "customised" and "custom"? 

Also how many bedrooms in that container house?

And how many people on non-property forums recognised "Metricon" as a building company (I didn't). 

And how much effect do you think showing the pictures had on the results here?


----------

