# Vegetable garden



## arminius (30 August 2007)

gday all,

coming into spring id just like to see if anyone else grows some vegies of their own. 
its hard to explain how good it feels to walk down to the garden in the morning or arvo and see them thriving. 
last christmas all the salads served up to the family were 30 mins out of the ground.

so find a patch of dirt, chuck some topsoil and chook poo on, whack up a fence of sorts and plant seeds. just like investing on the market...foresight, patience, reward.


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## explod (30 August 2007)

What a good idea Arminus.    

Last year we had the best tomatoes in the district for some strange reason, but could have been the following.    Every other year we purchased carefully selected seedings and our harvests were poor.   Last year in preparing our patch we emptied the contents of our compost bin over it and tomatoe seedlings came up everywhere.  My wife merely thined those out from the wrong spots and these self sown tomatoes were the best we ever had.

Spuds, well after reading of a bloke in Tassie who to break in poor ground literally threw seed potatoes over the ground and just covered them with straw paper and other assorted rubbish with great success.  I do similar but place them in rows on the unturned ground, then gutter between them placing that soil over the seed potatoes, adding straw and manure to increase the pile and the depth.   The furrows were then allowed to flood from downpipe redirection from the roof so that even the small showers and dew at night watered them fairly well to a good crop in the end.

The best bit when harvesting, found a huge tiger frog had made his home there.  Had not seen one in years.

Just shows how simple things can give pleasure and a break from the computor screen


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## theasxgorilla (30 August 2007)

explod said:


> Spuds, well after reading of a bloke in Tassie who to break in poor ground literally threw seed potatoes over the ground and just covered them with straw paper and other assorted rubbish with great success.




Its amazing how resilient spuds can be...I found them growing on the beach in Denmark!  It's like, WTF is that, a weed?  Nope, not-so-small potato plants


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## Sprinter79 (30 August 2007)

I remember growing our own vegies when I was a kid. I'd LOVE to get it happening again. We used to grow carrots, tomatoes, corn, beans, peas, and some other stuff I think.

It is pretty good to be able to enjoy the fruits (or vegies) of your labours :


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## INORE (30 August 2007)

well i started my first veg patch in june, its about a 9m2 plot and followed that dude peter cundall from gardening australia....have heaps of stuff growing now...trying fully organic so the bugs are having a treat now....got three boys and we just started plucking some early honey pea's and they love 'em. eat the pods and all straight of the bush...now that most of perth is fished out it seems to be the next best thing to trying to be a little self sufficient from nature...its interesting learning about companion planting and crop rotation, it even amazed me how i had no idea about all the veg i eat and not having a clue about what they looked like on/as they are growing...still so much to learn...it's amazing how pre-packed and ready to microwave a life in a big city is...it's almost shocking that most people woudln't know how to grow a decent crop of veg to survive.  Sounds stupid but i think some of these basics should be taught at schools.


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## Ageo (30 August 2007)

My dad grows Tomatoes, Eggplant, Lettuce and a few other veges.

He also has chilli, lemon and olive tree's.

At my place atm there is only a mandarin tree and the herbs i use to cook

* Basil
* Parsley
* Rosemary
* Oregano

Makes a big difference indeed to the taste.


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## arminius (30 August 2007)

yep, its weird eh. i threw compost on some dirt at the back of the house and two tomato plants shot up, going bezerk, just getting fruit now. and yesty i said to my beautiful lady, 'i think those are different types, maybe a roma or something'.
trying to get snow peas to grow up between them. planted lettuce day before yesty. 
i found a half frozen young blue tongue the other day in the rain. i moved him into a hollow log next to the garden, hopefully to feed on grubs n bugs. (he'd be happy to know i wont be increasing his rent or mortgage).


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## Julia (30 August 2007)

I notice that most of the comments are from the southern states.
We grew wonderful vegetables (and flowers) in New Zealand, but since moving to Qld I've found it's a real struggle.  Prepared the ground as others have described, put in the seedlings,and they grow quite well until they are about half mature.  Then all the bugs and diseases discover them and have a **** field day.  I've even relinquished my ideals of growing organically and used poisons but it makes little difference.  I can grow herbs and tomatoes but have given up on other vegetables.  Such a shame.
Two things could drive me back to NZ:  the plentiful water supply and the wonderful gardening.

Great to hear of others' success.


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## Garpal Gumnut (30 August 2007)

Ageo said:


> My dad grows Tomatoes, Eggplant, Lettuce and a few other veges.
> 
> He also has chilli, lemon and olive tree's.
> 
> ...




We are in Townsville,

Apart from bugs getting my mustard salad, our pak choi, oregano, parsley, thyme, mint, basil, coriander, lemon grass, lettuce, eggplant, tomatoes, oranges, pawpaw  and lemons are all doing well. Hoping our chili will start producing again soon.

Garpal


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## Smurf1976 (30 August 2007)

Don't have anything apart from passion fruit (got way too many of those) at the moment but plan to do something about it next year.

Potatoes are really easy - you don't even have to plant them properly for them to grow. It does work to break up clay too.


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## wayneL (30 August 2007)

Have always had an organic veggie patch, but here in Geraldton where I live on the beach it's been a disaster. 

Tatsoi and Jerusalem artichokes went well, all else was terrible. Got silverbeet going OK, but tasted like ****. 

Everything else totally bombed.


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## arminius (31 August 2007)

hey gumnut, whats your secret with coriander. ive tried a few times but they are all stalk no leaf and always die a slow horrible death. other herbs go fine. 
julia, have you tried putting flowers amongst them to attract birds? i also physically pick the grubs off the underside of the leaves of a morning. 
we must be lucky here in Newcastle but i havent used a drop of chemical yet.

dont give up!

this must sound corny, but despite all thats happening in the world and how tough things get, its exhilarating to have everything growing..the kids (2yrs and 12 weeks), the share portfolio (bloody yanks), and the vegies and herbs. every day is better than the last.


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## Julia (31 August 2007)

Smurf1976 said:


> Don't have anything apart from passion fruit (got way too many of those) at the moment but plan to do something about it next year.
> 
> Potatoes are really easy - you don't even have to plant them properly for them to grow. It does work to break up clay too.




Smurf,

How interesting that you can so easily grow passionfruit in Tassie.  I would have thought it was too cold.  Which variety do you have?  The black "Nelly Kelly"?  Would the Panama Gold and Panama Red's grow down there?

Wayne,

Aren't you moving to the UK soon?  At least you'll be able to grow some good vegies there in the summer.


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## Moneybags (31 August 2007)

Well living on the North Coast you may be surprised to learn that some of us up here grow vegies and not that other stuff the area is famous for. We are on rich volcanic soil and usually have good rainfall.

Our vegie patch has tomatoes, lettuce, spinach, Boc Choi, rhubarb (yuk), capsicums (just finished), beans, snow peas, peas and plenty of weeds.

We haven't had many problems with pests apart from fruit fly in the tomatoes but we have now learnt to grow the bigger fruiting types in Winter when the fly is not active and grow Romas and cherry toms in Summer as they seem to be resilient to fruit fly.

We have chooks too which free range in the afternoons cleaning up bugs and things and it's always great to feed them the scaps from our meals. There poo helps in keeping the vegies going and the straw from there chookhouse is great mulch too.

We also have plenty of fruit trees such as Mandarin, Orange, Tropical apples, Custard apples, Lychee, Avacado, Fig, Mango and Nectarines. We do battle fruit fly on the Nectarines but try to bag the fruit and never use spays. All good fun and I certainly have noticed a reduction in our food bill each week since we began growing our own ( vegies that is ).

MB


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## Rafa (31 August 2007)

Awesome thread.... Been thinking about starting up a veggie patch for the last 6 months but i have to do a fair bit of preparatory work first to get a good patch of vacant land.

I live in old market garden area near the banks of the river torrens in adelaide.

Whats a managable size to start of with? 
What about shade... The area i am looking at has a big gum tree to the north so the south side is shaded to varying degrees in summer and winter?
What about compost? I've only just started emptying food scraps, etc into a heap at the back, haven't got a bin yet... So far been just emptying and then covering with soil, and so on...
Does the veggie patch need to be raised? Should i put sleepers down to form a raised bed?
How often do you tend to the veggie patch? Is once a week ok, or is this an every day job?


Thanks .


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## Happy (31 August 2007)

arminius said:


> hey gumnut, whats your secret with coriander. ive tried a few times but they are all stalk no leaf and always die a slow horrible death. other herbs go fine.




Excuse budding in.
I do not grow or like coriander, but I heard that this is plant that lasts up to couple of months and goes to seed and dies out.

Successive sowing is recommended for continuous supply, also regulating exposure to sun can make them little bit more delicate.

Nitrogen rich fertilizer promotes leaf growth too, potash rich promote better flowering.


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## INORE (31 August 2007)

Rafa said:


> Awesome thread.... Been thinking about starting up a veggie patch for the last 6 months but i have to do a fair bit of preparatory work first to get a good patch of vacant land.
> 
> I live in old market garden area near the banks of the river torrens in adelaide.
> 
> ...




try these sites i found for help in starting up...just pick the eyes out of the info...

http://www.global-garden.com.au/gardenbegin_veg1.htm

http://www.homesite.com.au/outdoors/landscaping/projects-diy/how-to-plant-a-vegetable-garden

good to have full sun and wind protection...if possible....i raised my bed with sleepers...chucked down some newspaper....ordered a heap of vegie patch soil mix as a 300mm base...added sheep ****e and adjusted PH with lime and stuff...u can buy a cheap ph tester from hardware shop...divided the plot into 4 areas...sowed a combo of seeds and planted out seedlings following peter cundalls gardening australia book which is pure gold....i tend to the patch daily when i can...theres allways something to do like seasoling, weeding, debugging....

also planted fruit trees before i saw these things...

http://www.fruitsaladtrees.com/

has anyone else used/using these fruit salads????


Hope some of these links helped.


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## Happy (31 August 2007)

Good answer above, I would like to add some lazyman's thoughts.



> What’s a manageable size to start of with?



Start with small lot even as small as 1 by 2 or 3 metres, and the reason is, without experience you might be overwhelmed by the task.



> What about shade... The area I am looking at has a big gum tree to the north so the south side is shaded to varying degrees in summer and winter?



Some shade might be a blessing, but any humangous tree as a veggie patch neighbour spells a disaster to me.
Large trees have established roots system and are on a lookout for nutrients and moisture and can sap up all you put in.
It might even warrant to have raised bed with physical barrier from underlying soil, like pond liner, but this is bit complicated.



> What about compost? I've only just started emptying food scraps, etc into a heap at the back, haven't got a bin yet... So far been just emptying and then covering with soil, and so on...



What you do here is not that bad at all, probably horror for purists, but very time consuming what they suggest.

I am so lazy, that allowed I would only use so called sheet composting, which is nice name for laying scraps on top of soil slightly covering it.
Similar method might be collecting food and veggie scraps into bucket and digging it in a patch. All you have to do is remember to dig in next lot in different place.

There are perfect proportions of Nitrogen to Carbon and to moisture, but often close enough is good enough. Generally food scraps will make soil acidic, so handful of lime per 5 litre bucket of scrap should do. As to carbon, shredded paper could take care of that about  ¼ of the bucket.

Some kind of soil PH tester at some stage can help to keep soil PH between 5.5 and 7.5



> Does the veggie patch need to be raised? Should I put sleepers down to form a raised bed?




Clay soil would be the criteria for raising beds, as it can get too heavy and water logged.
Too sandy soil actually warrants to mix in some clay, so balance again.



> How often do you tend to the veggie patch? Is once a week ok, or is this an every day job?




In hot weather even few times daily visit might mean the difference between life and death of plants.
But labour itself actually would comprise of mostly controlling and regulating moisture, plus removing weeds mainly.

Then things like pests control – snails and slugs can be poisoned with pellets, picked up by hand at night, lured to moist traps or even traps with stale beer.
Support of taller plants and fastening them to something as they grow.
Some kind of protection from wind and too strong sun and later from birds.

As somebody said, it can be heart breaking, as there are so many free loaders out there: ants with aphids, earwigs, nematodes, mealybugs, various caterpillars, fruit fly, cut worms, even slaters.


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## Rafa (31 August 2007)

thanks for the advice happy, inore...
greatly appreciated... 

sounds like a bit of hard work, but the rewards certainly are worth it

still have to think about what to do with the gum tree... 
the way it is now, half the veggie patch will get shade, half will get sun...

might start off with a 3m x 1m area, tho have enough room to expand to 6 x 3. Not sure if i have the time for that yet.

looks like pH balance and clay/sand balance need to be right...

gonna continue with the compost with layering, tho will add paper / lime as suggested... Does this heap need to be in the sun or shade?


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## INORE (31 August 2007)

i've got a two stage composting system in a shaded (behind the shed) area and so far seems ok...i expect that keeping it moist will be easier in summer as well as its not in the sun.  I actually tried using black plastic over my compost heap and that didnt work as there wasnt enough moisture from rain getting in so now i will try newspaper layers....i heard that hay does the trick too but i have alot more access to newspaper...composting scraps and lawn clippings is economical but i'm finding it fairly time consuming for what i get out of it....maybe as the weather warms up the compost heap will grow quicker(from lawn clippings) and break-down quicker with the heat.

Happy, i think u said u add lime...does that also help break down the compost?


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## explod (31 August 2007)

Rafa said:


> thanks for the advice happy, inore...
> greatly appreciated...
> 
> sounds like a bit of hard work, but the rewards certainly are worth it
> ...




Keep your vegie patch as far from the gum tree as possible.   They suck out the water big time and when you do water over time they will seek out your patch.  Their roots are very aggressive.   After the garden has been going for a year or two dig a trench down about 2 feet down to cut off roots.  Hard the first dig but every 12 months redig the trench and that will keep the gum roots out.  Leaves from the gum seem to make the ground a bit sour also.


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## JeSSica WaBBit (31 August 2007)

Team, i'm a qualified horticulturalist so might be able to help with some questions from time to time.

Just 2 cents worth for beginners, go to Big W and buy yourself some Rocket seeds and sow them. Its virtually a weed and extremely easy to grow!

When you harvest it, cut off the individual leaves with a pair of scissors and be sure to leave at least one or two leaves on each plant. If you do this it will continuously produce new leaves for you. Some lettuces and other leafy vegetables can be cropped in a similar manner, no need to completely remove the entire plant when harvesting.

Nothing quite like fresh rocket from your garden 

Another tip for beginners, no need to put loads of effort into preparing beds and so on. Have a quick look into 'no dig' gardening.

Plenty of mulch, humus and water and you'll grow almost anything. Main thing is to get out there and give it a bash.

Another tip, no need to pay loads for seeds, collect your own from your veges you eat. Its simple, tomatoes, chillies, peppers, pumpkins and the list goes on. Let them dry on a plate for a few days then store in paper envelopes, label and store.

Anyways, i wish you all the best with your crops.

JW


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## Happy (31 August 2007)

> Does this heap need to be in the sun or shade?




I would say shade too, also some kind of bin stops nutrients to leach into underlying soil with every heavy downpour or even consistent light rain.

Some go to extent to keep it on waterproof base with all the fluid collected, similar setup to Worm Farm, which is slightly different way to compost kitchen, scraps.

Moisture content has to be kept fairly high 70% or more, to the point that when you squeeze handful of composted material it should produce few drops.

Heap has to have access to air too; there is fine line between aerobic process, which we desire and stinking anaerobic which can be achieved by accident if composting conditions don’t allow adequate access of oxygen.

Having said shadow, must add that this is for warmer areas, since we want composting process to be about 60 deg Celsius in the core of heap (to kill weeds seeds) and critical mass of the heap is too small then, extra heat provided by the Sun might be desired.

Ideal compost heap is slightly more than 1 m cubed. It has to be turned regularly, and for that reason I could not bear it.

Doing things by the letter might be daunting, I broke most rules, did not produce prize winning stuff, but didn't work too hard either, which suits me fine.





> i think u said u add lime...does that also help break down the compost?




Indirectly I think it does, as process relies on bacteria and bacteria has to have appropriate acidity level to perform at its best.
Lime provides that by neutralising acidity content.

(Similar to yeast, which needs nutrient, appropriate temperature, and not too high alcohol level. Do not satisfy any of the components and process will slow down or stop altogether).


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## wayneL (31 August 2007)

On compost heaps:

Put in a few layers of animal manure, and if you can get it ecomically, lucerne hay (spoilt bales or something).

Follow the tip above as well and you'll have the best most sweet smelling compost, best compost you've ever seen.

The manure and lucerne will add plenty of nitrogen and structure to the heap and it will get unbelievably hot... the secret to good weed free compost.


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## explod (31 August 2007)

Let me just say what a great thread.   It makes me smile every time I see a new poster and then check it out.   More of this nature stuff needed to bring the animal back out of us.

I know a few blokes got together a few years ago near to me approached the owner of a vacant lot and made a great veggie patch.   They even carted thier own water and became very adept at mulching and placing the beds to capture rain etc.   

Maybe when financial armageddon strikes we will be self sufficient

No......... just cant' stop smiling


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## wayneL (31 August 2007)

I the UK you can get an allotment http://www.selfsufficientish.com/allotments.htm from the local council where you can grow veggies. (supposing you don't have a big garden or you live in a flat)

The cool thing about that is there are several gardeners all next to each other so you can share tips and see who can grow the biggest marrow and such nonsense ... (and perhaps sabotage that whopping pumpkin the guy nextdoor is growing :batman:


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## Flying Fish (31 August 2007)

I can't believe  how many chillis I have growing here in Queensland!! I just threw them in and away they went!! PAw Paws, mangosteens!! custard apples, abiu limes and citrus!! Not to mention pumpkin and bananas!! Dead easy just throw the seeds in a bit of water and off they go!! Oh also passionfruit. amazing!!


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## Flying Fish (31 August 2007)

And pineapples. Just buy a pineapple with head on, chop head off and put in small pot of mix. They grow  well. Also capsicum tomatoes you name it. If you have a back yard do it, throw seeds in and grow. Buy a chook or two for eggs. Great!! By a small water tank for water, already you save lots of dollars on food bills, you have eggs and vegetables!! And sometimes chicken!!


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## drmb (31 August 2007)

Flying Fish said:


> .... Not to mention pumpkin and bananas!! Dead easy just throw the seeds in a bit of water and off they go!! Oh also passionfruit. amazing!!



Bananas don't grow from seeds, mate, they don't have any, don't they grow from cuttings? I grow fruit trees where I am, the possums get everything else.


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## Garpal Gumnut (31 August 2007)

arminius said:


> hey gumnut, whats your secret with coriander. ive tried a few times but they are all stalk no leaf and always die a slow horrible death. other herbs go fine.
> julia, have you tried putting flowers amongst them to attract birds? i also physically pick the grubs off the underside of the leaves of a morning.
> we must be lucky here in Newcastle but i havent used a drop of chemical yet.
> 
> ...




The coriander story for us is more luck than science. Last year we planted it, watered, it struggled and then the bed it was in became overgrown with mint and weeds. Recently we decided to clean the bed up and kept the mint only, laying on mulch over the rest. Suddenly we saw coriander growing gangbusters up through the mulch. Its called forest fines, we get it from a garden centre. The growth coincided with some welcome rain. It must have seeded at some stage last year.

Garpal


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## Whiskers (1 September 2007)

drmb said:


> Bananas don't grow from seeds, mate, they don't have any, don't they grow from cuttings? I grow fruit trees where I am, the possums get everything else.




Hi drmb

Yeah, actually you and Flying Fish are both sort of right. Commercially they are grown from what we call a 'sucker'. They are new shoots that come out from the base or the plant known as the 'corm' and as you say they are cut off the base preferably with a bit of a root on it and transplanted. I always have a few in my back yard. and yeah possoms and birds are a problem, but that can be overcome with plastic bags over the bunches as they mature and bird netting over other trees when they are ripening.

I have dealt with some DPI plant breeders over the years and actually you can get seeds for bananas. One sample below. There is a picture on the link.

Seed Packet #2163 
Royal Sweet Banana Musa paradisiaca royalii 
According to our grower in Brazil, this is one of the best seeded bananas for eating fresh. A fast grower and yeilds large "bunches". We can't wait to get feedback on this one. 
   10 seeds per pack. Price per pack: $3.95  http://www.seedman.com/banana.htm​
I'm not in the banana industry myself, but generally all our commercial crop varities are bred from seed and bananas are one of the most difficult as the following paragraphs and link indicate.

Banana breeding is also painfully slow. A full cycle, from seed to seed, takes three years. Compare this to rice, says Rosales, where you can obtain three crops a year.

Even pollinating the flowers is difficult. At first light, workers on ladders quickly hand pollinate the one or two flowers that have opened that day before the sun and heat dry out the sticky pollen. Each flower represents a hand: the process will be repeated every morning for a week or more before the entire bunch is pollinated. Three months later, the bananas are harvested. But there's no way of knowing where the few -- if any -- peppercorn-sized seeds are hidden without crushing and sieving the entire bunch. In FHIA's facilities, specially trained workers strip the fruit off the bunches and peel the bananas by hand. Although a press developed by Dr Rowe has made the mashing a little easier, it's still a laborious, messy process. At FHIA, more than 20,000 bunches of bananas are crushed each year in the search for seeds.

The seed harvest is meagre -- one or two seeds per bunch. And not all of these will grow into plants. The banana-seed germination rate is poor, below five percent in the wild. Using tissue culture techniques that involve rescuing" the embryo in the seeds that have them and growing them in a nutrient medium, Drs Rowe and Rosales have boosted the germination rate to 50 percent. The young plants are then transplanted into nursery beds until large enough to be set out into the fields.
http://archive.idrc.ca/books/reports/V221/banana.html​
Actually I know a few Asian people who grow green eating varities, blue looking ones etc. Fantastic flavours with the way they cook them.


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## Flying Fish (1 September 2007)

drmb said:


> Bananas don't grow from seeds, mate, they don't have any, don't they grow from cuttings? I grow fruit trees where I am, the possums get everything else.



They grow from pups. Sorry not seeds did'nt mean that


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## nioka (1 September 2007)

Whiskers said:


> Hi drmb
> 
> Yeah, actually you and Flying Fish are both sort of right. Commercially they are grown from what we call a 'sucker'. They are new shoots that come out from the base or the plant known as the 'corm' and as you say they are cut off the base preferably with a bit of a root on it and transplanted. I always have a few in my back yard. and yeah possoms and birds are a problem, but that can be overcome with plastic bags over the bunches as they mature and bird netting over other trees when they are ripening.
> Actually I know a few Asian people who grow green eating varities, blue looking ones etc. Fantastic flavours with the way they cook them.




In most states you need permission in the form of registration to grow bananas because of diseases such as bunchy top and panamar disease. In NSW at the moment it is illagal to move planting material without a permit and even then it can only move south to north. 
 I grow a few and my plants are tissue cultured at a specialist nursery (south of me of course). One of the varities I have just planted is a Thai banana which, in addition to having a good banana, also has an edible flower which is used in Thai cooking and is similar to a cabbage. 
Most bananas cook up nicely, preferably when they are almost still green. Great on the barbie with the prawns.


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## arminius (16 October 2007)

help!! very important....

something is eating my tomato leaves!

tiny little bugs that are making the leaves go brown, like bronze wilt. i dont want to spray because there are little spiders there as well and im sure they feed on something nasty.

our corn is nearly 2 foot high. woohoo. 
picked the first catapillar off the cueys today. fed him to the antlions.


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## Ageo (16 October 2007)

arminius said:


> help!! very important....
> 
> something is eating my tomato leaves!
> 
> ...





my dad uses tomatoe dust, its to keep bugs off


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## explod (16 October 2007)

arminius said:


> help!! very important....
> 
> something is eating my tomato leaves!
> 
> ...





Sounds like shrift or ahists (cant spell em) my wife's the expert but asleep.  You could prabaly beat them by spraying watered down detergent which wont hurt the spiders (after shaking out they will come back)  If you can keep them at bay the problems should pass.   Frost will also turn the leaves brown and some mornings are still very cold in Southern Vic.

Try google ling the problem also


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## nioka (16 October 2007)

arminius said:


> help!! very important....
> 
> something is eating my tomato leaves!
> 
> ...




There is a heritage tomato called the Potato tomato which I grow. It seems to resist pests. It is a smallish one, about the size of a golf ball. It is very tasty, is easily grown from it's own seed and fruits heavily. It grows all year round if not frosted. 
 Your wilt may not be from the bugs but from a nematode attacking the roots. The potato tomato also is a little resistant to them. To keep the nematodes under control you plant dwarf marigolds around tomatoes.
Hope this helps.


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## Julia (16 October 2007)

Re the brown wilt on tomato leaves, this happens in coastal Qld with most varieties of tomatoes except the smaller ones as Nioka says.  It doesn't seem to affect either the quantity or quality of the fruit.

Does anyone have a cure for those little green grasshoppers?  They are turning my beautiful basil into just stalks by literally shredding the leaves.


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## nioka (16 October 2007)

Julia said:


> Does anyone have a cure for those little green grasshoppers?  They are turning my beautiful basil into just stalks by literally shredding the leaves.




Yes. You catch them and tear their ruddy heads off. ( or you use a lot of sprays)


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## arminius (17 October 2007)

thanks everyone.
i'll give the detergent spray a crack, as im trying hard to avoid chemicals. 
i also find the ambush method works with g'hoppers etc...creep up behind them while they're munching away.
that reminds me. 
how do you catch a unique bird?

you 'neek up behind it.

how do you catch a tame bird?

the tame way.


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## Ageo (17 October 2007)

Julia said:


> Re the brown wilt on tomato leaves, this happens in coastal Qld with most varieties of tomatoes except the smaller ones as Nioka says.  It doesn't seem to affect either the quantity or quality of the fruit.
> 
> Does anyone have a cure for those little green grasshoppers?  They are turning my beautiful basil into just stalks by literally shredding the leaves.




Put some fine chicken mesh over the plants so nothing can get in, also pellets around the herbs so snails and that dont eat them. Other than that ask the garden people where you bought your stuff what to do.

Im having troubles with birds eating my stuff, especially indian mynas. I shoot them but they still keep coming back.


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## Happy (17 October 2007)

Julia said:


> Does anyone have a cure for those little green grasshoppers?  They are turning my beautiful basil into just stalks by literally shredding the leaves.




Bit of pain, but flyscreen plastic mesh can be sawn with cap on top and put on some kind of skeleton to hold it up. Seal bottom with mulch or burry bottom edge in soil.

Make sure that enough airflow is maintained, as the next thing to turn up will be mould.


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## nioka (17 October 2007)

Ageo said:


> Im having troubles with birds eating my stuff, especially indian mynas. I shoot them but they still keep coming back.




 Either you are a lousy shot, using blanks or is it reincarnation.

Actually the birds will eat the grasshoppers.


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## Flying Fish (17 October 2007)

One sure fire way to eradictae myna birds is fenthion. Very cruel way to die though, and you must ensure all other birds do not eat the food. Not difficult givin the aggressive nature of these pests.


----------



## Ageo (17 October 2007)

nioka said:


> Either you are a lousy shot, using blanks or is it reincarnation.
> 
> Actually the birds will eat the grasshoppers.




Ive shot 20 so far for this month so i think they are reincarnating.

I dont have a problem with the grasshoppers, only the birds


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## Stan 101 (17 October 2007)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> We are in Townsville,
> 
> Apart from bugs getting my mustard salad, our pak choi, oregano, parsley, thyme, mint, basil, coriander, lemon grass, lettuce, eggplant, tomatoes, oranges, pawpaw  and lemons are all doing well. Hoping our chili will start producing again soon.
> 
> Garpal




Garpal, to keep bugs away, I used to use a few crushed chillis in water and spray around and on the plants being eaten by bugs.. That kept things in check...This may work for you also, Julia.


cheers,


----------



## Kimosabi (17 October 2007)

Try NEEM OIL for bugs that eat your veggies etc.

Doesn't kill the good bugs because good bugs don't eat the plant.  Is non-toxic to humans, birds, earthworms or animals.  It doesn't kill beneficial insects either because the beneficial insects don't eat the plants.  Neem Oil is also used to treat Arthiritis, Cold Sores, Cuts, Massage, Sprains and Bruises and Wrinkles.

Unique Features:

• Broad spectrum insecticide/fungicide/miticide
• Controls insects and mites including whitefly, aphid and scale
• Controls fungal diseases including black spot, rust, mildew and scab
• For indoor/outdoor use on ornamental plants, flowers, vegetables, trees, shrubs and fruit & nut crops.

Garlic sprays send worms crazy if you get too much into the soil and don't seem to work that well anyway.

I sprayed NEEM OIL on my plants that were getting hammered by aphids and strangely the aphids have now all disappeared 

I bought a litre of this stuff which will probably last me for 20 years, it's UV stabalized to last 28 days and organically certified ==> http://www.ecogrowth.com.au/Eco-Neem Gold datasheet 3 Dec 03.pdf

I could probably drink my Pesticide without any long-term effects except maybe a good puke, but as long as I puke over the garden then this is probably ok.


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## nioka (17 October 2007)

Ageo said:


> I dont have a problem with the grasshoppers, only the birds




Maybe it is because you have the birds you don't have a problem with grasshoppers.  although there are better birds than the pests you are shooting. I like the maggies and butcher birds to help in the garden.


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## Ageo (17 October 2007)

nioka said:


> Maybe it is because you have the birds you don't have a problem with grasshoppers.  although there are better birds than the pests you are shooting. I like the maggies and butcher birds to help in the garden.




Unfortunately i only attract indian mynas, turtle doves (hazard to my garden) and honey eaters (not sure if thats the right name for them).


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## So_Cynical (17 October 2007)

arminius said:


> gday all,
> 
> coming into spring id just like to see if anyone else grows some vegies of their own.
> its hard to explain how good it feels to walk down to the garden in the morning or arvo and see them thriving.
> ...



I love a garden, unfortunately for me ive been without a garden for the last 8 years or so...thanks to my idiot wife.

Enjoy your gardens people...such a simple pleasure.


----------



## nioka (17 October 2007)

While we are talking pests in the garden could we find an answer to the biggest pest I have. Flying foxes, (fruit bats of whatever you want to call them). They descend in hundreds and in one night will strip every piece of fruit from the trees that are not netted. It is impossible to net some trees. Last year I never got 1 mango off 2 large trees. This year so far they beat me to the nectarines and peaches by destroying the light bird netting I have used in the past. They need culling but try and tell that to the local tree huggers. One of the locals was fined $1000 recently for "disturbing" them. He evidently made a pop gun out of plastic pipe and fired potatoes at them.

Any suggestions appreciated.


----------



## Kimosabi (17 October 2007)

nioka said:


> While we are talking pests in the garden could we find an answer to the biggest pest I have. Flying foxes, (fruit bats of whatever you want to call them). They descend in hundreds and in one night will strip every piece of fruit from the trees that are not netted. It is impossible to net some trees. Last year I never got 1 mango off 2 large trees. This year so far they beat me to the nectarines and peaches by destroying the light bird netting I have used in the past. They need culling but try and tell that to the local tree huggers. One of the locals was fined $1000 recently for "disturbing" them. He evidently made a pop gun out of plastic pipe and fired potatoes at them.
> 
> Any suggestions appreciated.




Spray your fruit with Cane Toad Puss...


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## Julia (17 October 2007)

Kimosabi said:


> Try NEEM OIL for bugs that eat your veggies etc.
> 
> Doesn't kill the good bugs because good bugs don't eat the plant.  Is non-toxic to humans, birds, earthworms or animals.  It doesn't kill beneficial insects either because the beneficial insects don't eat the plants.  Neem Oil is also used to treat Arthiritis, Cold Sores, Cuts, Massage, Sprains and Bruises and Wrinkles.
> 
> ...



Will give this a go.  Thanks.  Would Bunnings have it?

Stan 101:  I tried the chilli idea last year.  Just encouraged the nasty little critters.  I think they were grateful to me for providing a dressing for their salad.

Nioka:  Those ******* flying foxes are the bane of any gardener's life.
I absolutely don't comprehend why anyone wants to protect them.  Not only do they ruin every fruit crop but then as a result of their greed and over indulgence they crap over everything and it doesn't come off.  I hate them with a passion previously only reserved for mosquitoes.


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## Ageo (18 October 2007)

nioka said:


> While we are talking pests in the garden could we find an answer to the biggest pest I have. Flying foxes, (fruit bats of whatever you want to call them). They descend in hundreds and in one night will strip every piece of fruit from the trees that are not netted. It is impossible to net some trees. Last year I never got 1 mango off 2 large trees. This year so far they beat me to the nectarines and peaches by destroying the light bird netting I have used in the past. They need culling but try and tell that to the local tree huggers. One of the locals was fined $1000 recently for "disturbing" them. He evidently made a pop gun out of plastic pipe and fired potatoes at them.
> 
> Any suggestions appreciated.




lol noika funny you say that, i was on a farm out west (cousin) and he had permission to cull them (massive fruit farm, grapes, oranges, apples etc..) luckily he did in 1 week we destroyed over 50 (spotlight and shotgun). But they actually do $100,000 worth of damage each year just to his fruit trees. Alot of the trees he cant net so there like a sitting duck waiting to get attacked. It amazes me thow that with so many of them they arnt allowed to control the population numbers?



			
				So_Cynical said:
			
		

> I love a garden, unfortunately for me ive been without a garden for the last 8 years or so...thanks to my idiot wife.
> 
> Enjoy your gardens people...such a simple pleasure.




Why would your wife stop you from having a garden?


----------



## arminius (18 October 2007)

just a little thing on bunnings.
ive boycotted them. i go out of my way to get stuff from smaller hardware stores and nurseries. mind you, most hardware stores have gone out of business thanks to you know who.
im all for the little guy.

our back yard is the playground for heaps of noisy minas. they're native so i dont wanna kill em, but gee they're territorial, and noisy. funny that, but at least some rosellas and lorrikeets come and check things out every now and then.


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## Rastan (18 October 2007)

Hi Everyone,

I thought I would share a photo of the Tomatoes, Paw Paw trees and a pumpkin vine (you can just see the leaves to the right at the back) that i grew at home all from just throwing out the dishwater!  The first time I let the tomatoes jut grow, but this time I staked them and they have gone gangbusters! We got 8 pumpkins from the vine last time (about ~6 months ago) and it has just started sprouting some new fruits. There are about 60 toms all up and we have just planted some seeds from some capsicum last week!

Rob


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## Happy (18 October 2007)

arminius said:


> our back yard is the playground for heaps of noisy minas. they're native so i dont wanna kill em, but gee they're territorial, and noisy.




Not sure if we are talking the same bird, but Indian Myna is introduced bird from Indonesia and while ago Don Bourke recommended to destroy their nests and get rid of them as they are very competitive and kill a lot of native birds.

http://www.indianmynaaction.org.au/
http://www.indianmynaeradication.com/MynaMagic.html
http://www.indianmynaeradication.com/Reports/Environmental Disaster Report.pdf


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## Ageo (18 October 2007)

Rastan nice work! 


As for the Mynas they are responsible for competing against native birds and should be destroyed whenever possible.


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## nioka (18 October 2007)

Ageo said:


> Rastan nice work!
> 
> 
> As for the Mynas they are responsible for competing against native birds and should be destroyed whenever possible.




Don't confuse the Indian mynas with the native Noisy Myna although the native one can be a bit of a pest. They bully other birds and where you find them in numbers you rarely see finches, willy wag tails etc. The only difference is that it is legal to destroy the import but not the native one.


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## INORE (18 October 2007)

Ageo said:


> Rastan nice work!
> 
> 
> As for the Mynas they are responsible for competing against native birds and should be destroyed whenever possible.





do you think the australian native people feel this way about the imigrants into australia.....destroy them whenever possible???


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## Julia (18 October 2007)

Rastan,

Great healthy looking plants - goodonya.


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## Sprinter79 (18 October 2007)

Our goat is keeping all the pesky birds away from our backyard now hehehe


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## arminius (18 October 2007)

na they're noisy's. indian mynas are bigger and darker.
when researching how to get rid of them (so other natives would feel welcome), i read they were vegetarian. but no, they eat everything. 

toms look good rastan, nice work.

i put seasol liquid fertilizer on yesty. am interested to see how they go. 

anyone have a fav commercial fertilizer? i usually just use chook/cow poo and compost.


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## wayneL (19 October 2007)

nioka said:


> Don't confuse the Indian mynas with the native Noisy Myna although the native one can be a bit of a pest. They bully other birds and where you find them in numbers you rarely see finches, willy wag tails etc. The only difference is that it is legal to destroy the import but not the native one.



Just a really pedantic point (sorry  ). The feral bird is an Indian Mynah, whereas the native bird is a Noisy Min*er*.

Here is the Noisy Miner, be amused by these;







Here is the Indian Mynah, eradicate these:


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## Ageo (19 October 2007)

INORE said:


> do you think the australian native people feel this way about the imigrants into australia.....destroy them whenever possible???




lol i think humans are a tad more important than a feral pest. But please i dont wanna get started on the "animals are just as important as us topic".


Thanks for the update guys i was only aware of the indian mynas as thats all i get at my place. Well the native ones always are welcome at my place but the ferals are only welcomed to my air rifle.


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## Ageo (19 October 2007)

arminius said:


> na they're noisy's. indian mynas are bigger and anyone have a fav commercial fertilizer? i usually just use chook/cow poo and compost.




I hear blood and bone works really well (doesnt smell either). Family friends use it all the time.


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## austek (19 October 2007)

Those noisy mynas, my wife calls em clowns are the only birds we let swim in the pool. They become entertainment at times.

Surprised nobody has mentioned snow peas and blue lake beans.
I grow tomatoes, zuccini (luv stuffed zuccini's), snowpeas, beans, long mild chillis, parsley coriandar, chives & basil.  Only seeds I buy are zuccini seeds,
a few plants are left for seed production as mentioned by  jessica rabbit.

Been at it 40 odd years, and the garage spout thrust into a wheely bin overcomes the Melbourne water shortage with an overflow into the pool.

I never spray or buy fertiliser. Just good old cow manure and worm manure, casting, I believe they are called.

A net search handles any queries I ever had 

austek


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## Flying Fish (19 October 2007)

nioka said:


> Don't confuse the Indian mynas with the native Noisy Myna although the native one can be a bit of a pest. They bully other birds and where you find them in numbers you rarely see finches, willy wag tails etc. The only difference is that it is legal to destroy the import but not the native one.




Um is that a asian myna bird? I don't think australia has any native myna birds. All are introduced!!


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## Julia (19 October 2007)

Ageo said:


> I hear blood and bone works really well (doesnt smell either). Family friends use it all the time.




You've found blood and bone that doesn't smell?  Love to know the brand.
Any I've used stinks for several days.  Also causes the dog to become delirious with desire to munch into it.


----------



## Ageo (20 October 2007)

Julia said:


> You've found blood and bone that doesn't smell?  Love to know the brand.
> Any I've used stinks for several days.  Also causes the dog to become delirious with desire to munch into it.




lol ill ask my family friends which 1 they use (as they use it always, and say it doesnt smell).


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## Dukey (20 October 2007)

Great thread folks!! - I never imagined so many ASFers would be vege gardeners! Made me feel good after a string of bad news to image you all munching on your home  grown veges. There nothin better... well almost nothin.

- Unfortunately I'm not in a position have a patch at the mo... such is the life of the itinerant


Heres one for those people with bug problems - there are a number of organic sprays you can make yourself. Neem is one - though i havn't tried it.
Another is tobacco spray... I've tried it with some success especially for soft bugs like caterpillar infestations etc. 
- Sorry Julia - probably won't help with your FIFO bugs like grasshoppers - you'll kill a few - but more will arrive to replace them.
The recipe here calls for 1 cup of tobacco (butts OK i think but more stinky!) and 1 gallon of water.
- I'd use warm water and add a little simple dishwashing detergent or soap. - 

> Its basically a 'contact' spray I think and it breaks down quickly -> meaning you have to spray it on the bugs - you probably won't kill any/many from them eating it on the leaves or fruit. The soap will help the spray water get good 'contact'  with the bugs rather than beading off.

Wouldn't recommend it if you have nice bugs you want to keep as it will probably get em all.
and of course it's toxic.... >>> wear gloves, don't mix it with your hand, don't breath it.

... of course if you're a smoker then.....??

The other biggie for Oz soils is Organic matter - we generally need to put in a fair bit of work to raise the OM content.  so MULCH MULCH MULCH!!!   
Your vege patches will get better as the years pass and the OM content increases.

go for it ASF gardeners - I'll join you as soon as I have  a plot...


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## Julia (20 October 2007)

Dukey said:


> Great thread folks!! - I never imagined so many ASFers would be vege gardeners! Made me feel good after a string of bad news to image you all munching on your home  grown veges. There nothin better... well almost nothin.
> 
> - Unfortunately I'm not in a position have a patch at the mo... such is the life of the itinerant
> 
> ...



In the meantime, Dukey, have you considered some pots?  Or even just a few of those polystyrene boxes in which lettuces etc are packed for supermarkets?  Toss some good quality potting mix plus some mushroom compost and blood and bone and you could grow a few vegies, herbs etc.


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## Dukey (20 October 2007)

Julia said:


> In the meantime, Dukey, have you considered some pots?  Or even just a few of those polystyrene boxes in which lettuces etc are packed for supermarkets?  Toss some good quality potting mix plus some mushroom compost and blood and bone and you could grow a few vegies, herbs etc.




Nice idea pots. But I'm just moving about too much at the moment Julia.
Moved back from Japan 2 months ago; Travelling in WA a month ago; in NQ with the oldies now; heading to the Sunny coast next week. Hoping to find work and home - & a vege patch - there somewhere!!!!!!!!!!
Can't wait to just STOP moving!!!!!


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## onemore (20 October 2007)

Julia said:


> I notice that most of the comments are from the southern states.
> We grew wonderful vegetables (and flowers) in New Zealand, but since moving to Qld I've found it's a real struggle.  Prepared the ground as others have described, put in the seedlings,and they grow quite well until they are about half mature.  Then all the bugs and diseases discover them and have a **** field day.  I've even relinquished my ideals of growing organically and used poisons but it makes little difference.  I can grow herbs and tomatoes but have given up on other vegetables.  Such a shame.
> Two things could drive me back to NZ:  the plentiful water supply and the wonderful gardening.
> 
> Great to hear of others' success.




Do you need a lift to the Airport


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## Mofra (21 October 2007)

austek said:


> Surprised nobody has mentioned snow peas



Howdy austek,

Grew them for the first time last year, absolutely delicious (raw in salads, they were too good to cook) until the heat killed them fairly quickly in December. Do you cover the plants are all with any mesh or are they just out in the open sun?


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## nioka (21 October 2007)

Julia,

   Try purple king climbing beans. The like hot weather, grow fast, bear heavily and last for a long period providing you pick the beans at least every second day. There are some lettuce types also like hot weather plus cucumbers, melons etc.


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## Julia (21 October 2007)

onemore said:


> Do you need a lift to the Airport




Goodness, are you that anxious to see me gone???
Is it something personal, or are you just anti Kiwis???


----------



## Julia (21 October 2007)

nioka said:


> Julia,
> 
> Try purple king climbing beans. The like hot weather, grow fast, bear heavily and last for a long period providing you pick the beans at least every second day. There are some lettuce types also like hot weather plus cucumbers, melons etc.




Thanks for that suggestion Nioka.  I've tried the Scarlet Runners which I used to grow with such success in NZ but haven't tried the Purple King.
Yep, have had some success with soft leaved lettuces, but any of the cucurbits succumb to powdery mildew before producing any decent fruit.


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## austek (21 October 2007)

Mofra said:


> Howdy austek,
> 
> Grew them for the first time last year, absolutely delicious (raw in salads, they were too good to cook) until the heat killed them fairly quickly in December. Do you cover the plants are all with any mesh or are they just out in the open sun?




Mof I have a wooden set up like soccer goal posts, 2 round posts 7 foot high
each end and a piece of 6X1 inch across the top in open sun.   The top board has 3mm holes drilled 4inches apart.   That is 24 holes.  I hang down good quality sash type cord from the holes. 
  Snow peas go in around March thruought winter, they don't like heat or wind.  Then tomatoes go in spring end Sept, and run up the same strings.

It's all about seasons.  Seed suppliers never get the season right on packets.
Sell more seeds that way.

The goal post idea is a lot smarter than tomatoe stakes and tidier.  Professional hydroponic growers do it that way.  You can use specially made clips to attach climbers to string or just wind them up the string as I do.

Never water the leaves they get some sort of white mould mildew.   Tomato leaves are probably best left fry as well


austek


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## nioka (21 October 2007)

Julia said:


> the cucurbits succumb to powdery mildew before producing any decent fruit.




In summer I grow them on a trellis. The sun and air will keep the mildew down.

I did read onemore as meaning you to fly south. ?????????? Aussies usually only hate kiwis when it is associated with sport. Although I was once told in a NZ bar that I was an akubra hatted, pelaco shirted, stanima trousered bas****.


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## Julia (21 October 2007)

nioka said:


> In summer I grow them on a trellis. The sun and air will keep the mildew down.




OK, that might be where I have gone wrong, i.e. I've grown them on the ground.  Will let them share a trellis with the Purple King Beans.





> I did read onemore as meaning you to fly south. ?????????? Aussies usually only hate kiwis when it is associated with sport. Although I was once told in a NZ bar that I was an akubra hatted, pelaco shirted, stanima trousered bas****.




Well, that was very unmannerly of my countryfolk.  We are generally very nice to you Aussies as we need your tourism business.

No, I think Onemore was encouraging me to go back to NZ (Sob!)
I am having a hard time trying not to feel unwanted


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## nioka (21 October 2007)

Julia;214782
Well said:
			
		

> Wasn't there as a tourist. I worked in NZ for 3 years in the early 50s. Enjoyed it and had a good time. Made a lot of friends too. Was a factory manager at 23 yrs of age in charge of about 60 so there were a few who didn't take me seriously.


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## Whiskers (22 October 2007)

Julia said:


> I notice that most of the comments are from the southern states.
> We grew wonderful vegetables (and flowers) in New Zealand, but since moving to Qld I've found it's a real struggle.  Prepared the ground as others have described, put in the seedlings,and they grow quite well until they are about half mature.  Then all the bugs and diseases discover them and have a **** field day.  I've even relinquished my ideals of growing organically and used poisons but it makes little difference.  I can grow herbs and tomatoes but have given up on other vegetables.  Such a shame.
> Two things could drive me back to NZ:  the plentiful water supply and the wonderful gardening.
> 
> Great to hear of others' success.




Julia, it sounds like you might have a low ph and/or low nutrition levels, particularly phosphate. That is fairly typical of coastal Qld. The fact that your tomatoes grow OK suggests low ph, (tomatoes still grow well at ph 4.5) and if your other vegies suffer from all manner of pest and disease as they near maturity, suggests low brix (plant sugar) levels. 

Plants with high brix levels are very unpalatable to chewing pests. The atmosphere around plants are also far more areobic when ph and available fertility is good. Anerobic plants attract pests and disease.

If your ph is below 6.2 I would apply a little fine lime. If ph is OK a little gypsum or dolomite to keep the calcium levels up.

You can save a lot of money if you can go to a rural supplies business and get a 40kg bag of a good all round preplant fert for around $35. I usually used CK55(S) or TomatoTE because they are sulphate based potassium. Don't use chloride based potassium, KCL. I can't see these brands on the website now, but something like CAL-AM ® PRONTO (S) N: 6.8% P: 10.4% K: 10.3% S: 5.0% Ca: 9.5%, is very similar.
http://www.incitec.com/ProductInformation.asp

The closest agent: Calamon Pty Ltd, MS 763 Chapel Road Pialba. 4655. 07 4128 3799, 07 4124 5585.

Home gardner products like thrive and aquasol often supply too much nitrogen, which contributes to anorebic conditions and increased pest and disease pressure. This often occures with poultry manures too. Hot humid conditions can give a sudden release of the nitrogen usually when you don't want it.

Another very good product I have used and is available in 1, 5, and 20litre for abt $15, $45, and $140 respectively is Nutri-Tech tripple ten. This is a liquid fert containing a lot of organics that will keep the brix levels up and fill out fruit. http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/products_new/liquid-fertilisers/triple-ten-range.html

This type of product containing fish emulsion and vermicast builds up microbal activity and fulvic acid chelates nutrients for better uptake and binds up toxic elements in the soil.

The contact details are on the website and they will post to you. A 20 litre last cost me $10 postage.

There you go. No excuses for not getting a good veg crop. Actually, I got a bit carried away here, because Will power crashed out of the Indy 300 this arvo, so I got an early sleep to get up early to see Casey Stoner win again  and for the Brazilian F1 grand prix, hoping Louis Hamilton would win the championship in his first year and our Mark Webber perform well, but... , hence I lost interest and got carried away here.

Actually those products will work all over Aus. In SA though ph levels are often alkaline (> 7) compared to acidic (< 7) in the rest of Aus, so you probably wouldn't apply lime there.


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## austek (22 October 2007)

Whiskers, I don't use ph readings anymore although I have a gauge for it, got very confusing when their are so many other variables to contend with.

Amounts of rainwater, different fertilizers and manures etc.

I found with commerciual fertilizers my vergies particularly sweetcorn grew smaller each year until you rest the soil.

With varius animal manures vegies just keep on keeping on.  I haven't rested the soil  nowfor 18 years or more.  Two things I feel that help are,

1.  I scrape the top level of soil away end of season, add bins of half rotted 
       autumn leaves and cover with fresh mulch from the compost heap

2.  Tomatoes luv worm casings, especially at the start of the seedling stage.
     Other manures are too strong unless added to soil a few months before 
      planting

my 2 cents


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## Whiskers (22 October 2007)

Hi austek

Some vegies such as sweet corn do much better in ph 6 to 6.5. Corn is also a hungry feeder, so if the nutrients aren't readily available it won't perform well. One of the problems with non organic fertilisers is that they tend to acidify the soil, hence comercial growers apply lime every few years to raise the ph back. The other problem is the rate of release of the phosphate which is relatively slow and without good microbial activity tends to lock up in the soil and not be plant available. Many older fertilises mixes and still some today contain potassium as potassium chloride (KCL). As if the above doesn't cause enough problems the chloride in KCL adds to the salinity of the soil, affecting the conductivity and hence further limits the uptake of nutrients. Many fertilisers sold in nursery supplies contain KCL.

Also as you say, hot manure can also be problematic. By letting it settle with compost as you do is the best way to go.

The dry fert I mentioned for julia is sulphate based potassium, contains a balance of ammonium and nitrate nitrogen and water and citrate soluble phosphate for more even and sustained release. When you need to build up fertility this is one of the best and cheapest to get it done quickly. 

The liquid tripple ten contains the organic stuff that accelerates the biological build up while buffing against the abovementioned disadvantages of conventional fertilisers.

After a couple of crops, the residual fertility and microbial activity will be much improved as you can atest to and you need less applied fert. 

The beauty of a soil with high organic carbon levels is that the nutrients are held in the soil in readily available form so plants can just take up what they need.


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## Julia (22 October 2007)

Whiskers,

Thank you indeed for that comprehensive explanation.  I've used some Thrive/Aquasol on flowers with good results but haven't used it on veges.
Have used lots of chook poo, mixed animal manure and mushroom compost and thought I was doing the right thing.

I know the rural supplies store you mean - not far from here.  Thanks for looking that up.

I actually have very little vege garden space left now, having installed three 5000litre water tanks in that space.  I'll resist going into a cost-effectiveness commentary on either the vegies or the water!


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## Bushrat (22 October 2007)

I've been a member on this website for a while now, but have never read the Vege garden thread. Being a down day i thought i'd go back and have a bit of a read and think its fantastic..I have a few acres and concentrate mainly on Rockmelons and Watermelons, raise them in seedling trays and get them in the dirt end of September (being in the subtropics the soil temp is high enough this time of year).. I have a bore and 3 tanks totalling 20,000 gallons, about 80,000 litres, and this feeds the house, pool, over 100 citrus, mango, pecan and macca trees as well as the melons, herbs and house vegies.. My main enemies seem to be a small orange flying bug about the size of a lady beetle which chews through the melons and grubs which attack my citrus trees...i'm seeking organic certification and so am a very labour intensive operation when it comes to weeds and bugs/ grubs and am trying various concoctions to keep the bugs at bay..
anyway, enough about me....great thread...love being able to eat your own..nothing like it...you never know where the produce at supermarkets is coming from or how it has been treated nowadays.

cheers


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## arminius (23 October 2007)

gday bushrat, 
i planted rocky seeds 6 weeks ago and they're about 20cm high and starting to spread out. how much space do you reckon is needed for each individual plant? been using a bit of seasol fert. is that ok you reckon?
when is the optimum time for picking?
thanks.
my snow peas are going beserk. Woohoo!


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## INORE (23 October 2007)

yeh i'm trying rockmelons for the first time. last year i had about 6 watermelon vines which only produced about 3 edible melons, the rest actually split prem.  how do i not make the same mistakes this year?  is there similar probs with growing rocks and watermelons?  BTW thanks whiskers for your input...i'm going to look into that brix stuff with an organic grower i play cricket with.


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## Bushrat (23 October 2007)

arminius and inore...you need about a metre and half for rockies..if they are 20cm now, it wont take long for the runners to get out to a metre...you should get about 3 to5 good sized fruit ready for picking in 10-12 weeks after planting depending on conditions...split rockmelons is due to either, overwatering or underwatering...in real hot weather at the end of the day, you will notice the leaves have wilted, the plants should be watered lightly and pick the fruit when they come off the vine with about 1/2 to 1 twist and have a full cover off netting just beyond green and entering a yellow colour and should be eaten within 2 days..when ripe, rockies dont keep well - supermarkt rockies are gased, and this makes them taste powdery..they have probably been stored a week to 10 days...watermelons are basically the same and should produce 2 to 4 good sized melons. Harvest Water melons when you knock on them and they sound hollow, and half to 1 twist to come off the vine..both melons need extra watering when the fruit is set and in hot weather..
to prevent yellow patches on the melons (as the result of contact with the ground) i put some straw or hay under the fruit..this prevents the yellow discolouring on the underside..if its windy and the runners are getting blown about, throw some dirt on them. the vines are pretty hardy and take a bit of beating..mine are starting to flower now, so fruit will be coming in the next few weeks, but we're expecting storms soon, so i wont need to water so much..sesol should be ok..i only use cow and chook poo and worm castings..

there easy to grow, great to eat and easy to sell...melons are the way to go.


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## INORE (23 October 2007)

thanks very much bushrat....i never new about the 1/2 twist method of harvesting...with watermelons i must have researched about 5 other different methods to check for ripening...is it possible to overfeed rockmelons..ie too much blood'n'bone and lime???  also. is there any value in shading the melons as they grow with straw to protect from heat on a 40-45 degree day???


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## Bushrat (23 October 2007)

yes..dont overfeed the melons..i dont really give them anything, but it does depend on the soil structure. i have dark chocolate basalt soil, which is full of organic matter (the steers used to be in the paddock),,knock the watermelon and listen for a dull hollow sound when harvesting..
i dont shade mine and in the shade here it does get to 44 degrees. if you know your in for a stinking hot day, give them some water in the early morning, then late afternoon especially if the leaves are wilting. having said that, they do get sunburn, perhaps put some hay or straw on them just for sun protection, but take it off asap to prevent the fruit from sweating...i just move the big leaves to cover them if i can.


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## onemore (23 October 2007)

Julia said:


> No, I think Onemore was encouraging me to go back to NZ (Sob!)
> I am having a hard time trying not to feel unwanted




Sorry thats not a personal attack on you Julia.

Hey I'm not a gardener but you guys have got me keen.
I'm going to buy some Bean seeds today and toss em in and see how they go.

Cheers


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## Julia (23 October 2007)

onemore said:


> Sorry thats not a personal attack on you Julia.
> 
> Hey I'm not a gardener but you guys have got me keen.
> I'm going to buy some Bean seeds today and toss em in and see how they go.
> ...



Oh, phew, onemore, I'm so relieved!!!
Bean seeds are fun, but you could also buy a punnet of seedlings, put them in the ground and you will be astonished at how quickly you are picking delicious little beans - usually within two to three weeks.  Watch out for the bean fly though.
Another really quick crop is seedlings of soft leaved lettuces, e.g. butter lettuce, mignonette etc.
Let us know how you go.


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## Whiskers (24 October 2007)

Bushrat said:


> My main enemies seem to be a small orange flying bug about the size of a lady beetle which chews through the melons and grubs which attack my citrus trees...i'm seeking organic certification and so am a very labour intensive operation when it comes to weeds and bugs/ grubs and am trying various concoctions to keep the bugs at bay..
> cheers




Hi Bushrat

Sounds like you might be another 'Queenslander'.

Your little orange bug sounds like the Monolepta Beetle. It will also destroy your mango flowers preventing them from fruiting.

There is another similar looking one, a Pumpkin Beetle which loves cucurbit leaves, but usually doesn't affect production too heavily.

I considered joining an organic growers group back in the early 1990's, but found the allowable products too limiting for viable commercial production. But I still avoided pesticides as much as possible by focusing more on plant health and IPM.

I'm rationalising my activities down to focus more on share trading now, but I would be interested to hear how you go with organic pest controls.


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## Whiskers (24 October 2007)

Julia said:


> Bean seeds are fun, but you could also buy a punnet of seedlings, put them in the ground and you will be astonished at how quickly you are picking delicious little beans - usually within two to three weeks.  Watch out for the bean fly though.
> Another really quick crop is seedlings of soft leaved lettuces, e.g. butter lettuce, mignonette etc.
> Let us know how you go.




Butter beans and the butter crunch lettuce are my favourites. Other staples for me were baby carrots and sugar snap peas, strawberries, black musket grapes and fresh picked spuds... beautiful  When my kids were babies they loved the sugar snap peas raw. They usually raided them and the grapes and strawberries while I was at work. 

I'll have to get back to growing a few again. The taste of a lot of vegies from the supermarkets these days is not that flash and I haven't been eating as many as I should because I know what some growers get away with and too often mancozeb residue is visible on peas, paw paw and mangoes.

I'm afraid all I have now is some rundown asparagus, shallots, strawberries, pineapples, mandarin, orange, mango, bananas and paw paw and papaya.

Another one I really loved was called salsify. It was like a white carrot, but when stir fried it was soo sweet. It was called the vegetable oyster. I couldn't get them for a long time. I'll have to have another search around.


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## Whiskers (24 October 2007)

INORE said:


> BTW thanks whiskers for your input...i'm going to look into that brix stuff with an organic grower i play cricket with.




The brix is probably the most important measure, after you have the soil balance right. I think once you get focused on that you will be pleasently surprised at the superiour eating quality and pest and disease resistance of your plants.

Good luck.


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## Bushrat (24 October 2007)

gidday whiskers...not in queensland, but i can see the border ranges out the window, so very close....little orange bug, its bright orange, kinda like a lady beetle without the spots...little bugger....soapy water and garlic mix is what i'm trying at the moment.. a bit of vegemite mixed in might be the go. We'll see.
cheers


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## nioka (24 October 2007)

INORE said:


> thanks very much bushrat....i never new about the 1/2 twist method of harvesting...with watermelons i must have researched about 5 other different methods to check for ripening...
> 
> 
> scratch the skin with your fingernail. If the skin peels off under the fingernail then the melon is ripe. If it doesn't then it isn't.
> ...


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## onemore (24 October 2007)

Hi fellow green thumbs.

I put me bean seeds in today ,they didn't have any seedlings left.

Anychance of posting some links to your favourite Vege Gardening sites ? I'm gunna have to do a bit of research.

Cheers ....onemore


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## arminius (26 October 2007)

ate our first snow pea today. 
crisp. delish. never again will i but limp splotchy snowys.

onemore. check abc gardening. pete cundell is pretty switched on.

thanks for advice bushrat and others.


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## roland (26 October 2007)

I'm a balcony gardener and have 2 x passionfuit vines snaking around the railings. Had them for 2 years now but they won't flower - am I expecting toomuch from from being potted? Growth is vigorous and they get a 50% cutback when dormant. Any ideas??


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## Julia (26 October 2007)

roland said:


> I'm a balcony gardener and have 2 x passionfuit vines snaking around the railings. Had them for 2 years now but they won't flower - am I expecting toomuch from from being potted? Growth is vigorous and they get a 50% cutback when dormant. Any ideas??




Roland,
I'm sad to say that I'm an expert in failed passionfruit vines.  Have had some successes but more failures.  The utter injustice about passionfruit appears to be that the more you love and care for it the more it decides to just spite you and do nothing.  I have friends who harvest buckets of beautiful fruit from some forgotten vine at the bottom of the garden which never gets any attention at all.

I've tried seedlings which have come from the fruit, bought grafted vines, and allowed self sown plants to do their own thing.  A couple of years aog I had a great Panama Red vine.  It flowered profusely in less than a year and every flower set fruit.  I happily watched the huge fruit take on a rich red colour.  Finally came time to pick them.  They were almost empty inside!!!
Such a disappointment.
Someone will be able to say why this would have happened.

As far as growing a vine in a pot is concerned, this could perhaps be the problem as they have fairly shallow, spreading roots.  As it has produced good growth but failed to flower, what I'd suggest (and this has actually worked well for me despite my rant above) applying some liquid Potash.
About $5 in nurseries/big gardening barns etc.  Just dilute with water in a watering can and water over all the foliage.  You will probably need to do it a few times, a few weeks apart.  The other thing I do know about them is they do not like to be wet.  Gardening experts say "the dry side of moist".
Let us know how you go.
Anyone else have any passionfruit tips?


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## roland (26 October 2007)

Julia said:


> Roland,
> I'm sad to say that I'm an expert in failed passionfruit vines.  Have had some successes but more failures.  The utter injustice about passionfruit appears to be that the more you love and care for it the more it decides to just spite you and do nothing.  I have friends who harvest buckets of beautiful fruit from some forgotten vine at the bottom of the garden which never gets any attention at all.
> 
> To add salt to wounds, I planted a vine for my mum, same grafted variety, it's in her clay laden 50 year old neglected soil, chewed to death by possums and the thing fruited after 6 months


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## Whiskers (27 October 2007)

roland said:


> I'm a balcony gardener and have 2 x passionfuit vines snaking around the railings. Had them for 2 years now but they won't flower - am I expecting toomuch from from being potted? Growth is vigorous and they get a 50% cutback when dormant. Any ideas??




Hi roland

As Julia mentions growing in a pot can starve them of nutrition. Her tip about applying extra potash will definately help. Actually any fruit or veg plant that produces heavy crops of fruit will benifit from extra Potash from flowering time, to fill out and improve fruit quality... great for spuds. 

It sounds like Julia is probably using the best liquid potassium, as potassium citrate, a pure potassium in an organic acid base, about 12.5% K. It can be watered over plants with no risk of burning leaves.

Just a reminder though to check that you don't buy Potassium Chloride, KCL. Also, sometimes Humic Acid is promoted as a potassium fertiliser. While it does contain potassium it is only very low amounts. It might say Potassium humate 10-14%, but the actual K will only be about 1.5%. 

The other thing about passionfruit is Boron is a key nutrient that they need a bit more of to help with high calcium uptake and ensure good fruit set. Passionfruit nutrition is similar to Paw Paw/ Payaya, is a fairly heavy feeder so in a pot it would benifit from the high potassium Aquasol plus liquid Potassium Citrate, or Nutritech Tripple Ten for passionfruit http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/products_new/liquid-fertilisers/triple-ten-range.html. Even though it is specially blended with a slightly different balance of micro-nutrients for passionfruit, it can be used on other fruit and veg without problems.

Julia, good fruit set but hollow fruit is systematic of low phosphate (and/or associated elements Zn and Mg). This is the low brix levels that I mentioned earlier. If your soil or pot mix is low in phosphate and/or you haven't applied a balanced granular preplant fertiliser, it will need extra P to ensure good seed set and development. That one is a classic case for a few applications of Tripple Ten before flowering.


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## Julia (27 October 2007)

Whiskers, you are clearly a very expert gardener - thank you so much.
So it seems the phosphate deficit is probably throughout my garden as the passionfruit is far away from what was the vegie garden.  Is the name of the product "Tripple Ten"?
I notice you suggest to Roland that he apply the liquid potash when the vine is flowering.  I was hoping that using it might induce flowering.  I've used it thus myself and it seems to have worked but it might have been going to flower anyway.  What's your view on this?


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## Stan 101 (27 October 2007)

Can anyone give some hints on how to grow capsicum?
I've had a lot of succes with chillis for years though when trying to grow capsicum, they are always small (40mm diameter) and deformed.

I try to keep the soil at a neutral PH asa the chillis thrive there. 
Usually use an osmocote in the potted soil and a liquid fertilizer on a monthly basis..The plant's folage is a dark green with well formed leaf structure and they readily flower, just the end result is poor.

Any tips?


Cheers,


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## nioka (27 October 2007)

Most plants don't die because of a shortage of fertiliser, they are just not thriving. However many plants are ruined or killed with too much fertiliser. Most fertilisers need to be applied very lightly. eg. In agriculture some trace minerals are applied at the rate of 200gms per hectare and a fertlising rate of 2 or 3 bags (40kg) per hectare. Organic fertilisers can be much higher. Ag lime is not dehydrated lime, one acts slow and can be used reasonably heavily, the other is sudden death if used in the same quantities. One of the safest ways to correct deficiencies is to use fish emulsion and kelp extracts or dynamic lifter with those as additives.
 This morning I have had from the garden tomatoes, zucchini, sugarloaf cabbage, beans. silverbeet, button squash, lettuce and carrots. All grown with plenty of compost, blood and bone and dynamic lifter. There is also a lot of fish incorporated in the compost.


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## Whiskers (27 October 2007)

Julia said:


> Whiskers, you are clearly a very expert gardener - thank you so much.




Thats very flattering of you julia,  but actually my garden is what you might call a lazy mans garden. It's nothing too flash compared to manicured gardens like my mums, but it's low maintaince and provides the goods. Actually I was raised on a farm worked in 'dirt' as a supervisor in the civil construction industry before returning to a farming business. 

My scientific knowledge is more anecdotal from experience dealing with soil technicians and agronomists. This is where we need someone with a science based degree like JeSSica WaBBit. Jessica where are you when I need you? 



> So it seems the phosphate deficit is probably throughout my garden as the passionfruit is far away from what was the vegie garden.  Is the name of the product "Tripple Ten"?




It seems likely, as I said earlier coastal Queensland is typically low in nutrition, especially P and especially in lighter coloured soils. Tripple Ten will help rectify the problem quickly for existing crops and as a bit of a boost when heavy fruiting fruit and veg come up to flowering and fruit fill.

Where you have not yet planted, a good preplant fert along the lines I mentioned in a previous post is the best way to provide P. The fundamental difference between a preplant fert and others is that the N is low and mostly in ammonium form for slow release and help fruit development, while less N is as nitrate for early growth and it includes equal or more P than N. 

I won't suggest straights (ie single nutrient fertilisers) because as nioka points out below, it is a risky business and you could easily kill plants. Molybdenum and Boron are two that are essential but required in relatively very small amounts, eg 200g to 1kg per ha respectively. Another that is deadly as nioka points out below is dehydrated lime sometimes refered to as quicklime. It is not the same as aglime and is not used in agriculture except in exceptional circumstances after soil and plant sap testing and under an agronomists recomendation. 

Continue to use organic manures and compost to build up the organic carbon and humus over time, but just be mindful that you might get a sudden release of N in hot humid conditions. If you grew a heavy feeder like corn or leaf veges after applying manures, a sudden release of N won't hurt as much as if you grew cucurbits, strawberries, carrots, potatoes etc. 

The other main problem with manures, particularly chook manure is that with heavy applications over time excessive P levels can be a problem. Don't stop using manures, just use them in moderation. Superphosphate is typically used to raise P levels, but even on the farm unless P is seriously low, we prefer to use a blended N P K fert at preplant that also contains some Calcium and Sulphur.



> I notice you suggest to Roland that he apply the liquid potash when the vine is flowering.  I was hoping that using it might induce flowering.  I've used it thus myself and it seems to have worked but it might have been going to flower anyway.  What's your view on this?




A qualified scientist like Jessica could get into the niti-griti better than I, but in general potassium governs the opening and closing of the stomata (mainly on the underside) on the leaves which allows it to breathe and take in atmospheric nitrogen and foliar fertilisers. K determines the number of fruit that set and the size of the fruit.

So, in summary P is required for good root development, promote good shoots and seed development, which involves the fruit we want. K then kicks in to determine the number and size of the fruit. P and K (with adequate micronutrients) work together for photosynthesis and development of sugar (brix) levels.


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## Mofra (27 October 2007)

austek said:


> Mof I have a wooden set up like soccer goal posts, 2 round posts 7 foot high
> each end and a piece of 6X1 inch across the top in open sun.   The top board has 3mm holes drilled 4inches apart.   That is 24 holes.  I hang down good quality sash type cord from the holes.
> Snow peas go in around March thruought winter, they don't like heat or wind.  Then tomatoes go in spring end Sept, and run up the same strings.
> 
> ...




Cheers austek, sounds like a good (and relatively simple) set-up.
Just to clarify, are the strings attached to ground in some way initially or is that not required (assume after a few weeks the plants would be more self-supporting?). Cheers.

Think more for next year / winter crop as I have my summer plants in now


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## Whiskers (27 October 2007)

Stan 101 said:


> Can anyone give some hints on how to grow capsicum?
> I've had a lot of succes with chillis for years though when trying to grow capsicum, they are always small (40mm diameter) and deformed.
> 
> I try to keep the soil at a neutral PH asa the chillis thrive there.
> ...




Hi Stan 101

Again a scientist like Jessica might be able to get down to more precise detail.

Contrary to common belief, phosphate is just as or more important than nitrogen and essential for good quality plant growth. Boron deficiency symptoms include misshappen fruit with irregular depressions. Boron is also highly leachable out of the soil. 

Your dark green colour and reasonable numbers but poor quality fruit sounds like a bit too much N and not enough P and boron. All the fertilisers you use include some boron, but as you fertilise monthly, I reckon it is getting leached out faster than it is added.

Some potting mixes say they contain enough fert for 'so' long, but whether they do is contencious. In a potting mix I would fertilise at least every week, twice a week when they get near flowering to fruit fill. 

If you use a lot of fert you could get a good preplant fert similar to the one on the incitec link of an earlier post and mix a good handfull to about 10litres of potting mix, dampen it and let it stand for a few days before you plant. Alternatively you can sometimes get a preplant fert called Q5 at a nursery or bunnings. Its half the strength of the former, so just double amount. 

If you prefer osmocote, a little chook or pig manure mixed with it preplant will boost trace elements and P or blood and bone for P. The associated N in blood and bone is in organic form and wont cause a problem. I don't recommend too much blood and bone as it only contains N and P but no K. Use the lowest N fert to water later. 

The safest source of trace elements is dry chook or pig manures, liquid vermicast, fish emulsion and kelp individually or in a combined mix will improve organic carbon content and retention of all elements especially boron. Tripple Ten also contains good organics, trace elements and organic carbon and would be quite suitable to replace your present fert once the plants have established and near flowering.


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## Whiskers (27 October 2007)

nioka said:


> Most plants don't die because of a shortage of fertiliser, they are just not thriving. However many plants are ruined or killed with too much fertiliser. Most fertilisers need to be applied very lightly. eg. In agriculture some trace minerals are applied at the rate of 200gms per hectare and a fertlising rate of 2 or 3 bags (40kg) per hectare. Organic fertilisers can be much higher. Ag lime is not dehydrated lime, one acts slow and can be used reasonably heavily, the other is sudden death if used in the same quantities. One of the safest ways to correct deficiencies is to use fish emulsion and kelp extracts or dynamic lifter with those as additives.
> This morning I have had from the garden tomatoes, zucchini, sugarloaf cabbage, beans. silverbeet, button squash, lettuce and carrots. All grown with plenty of compost, blood and bone and dynamic lifter. There is also a lot of fish incorporated in the compost.




You sound like you have got things going pretty well, nioka.

As you say many plants are killed with kindness... too much fert. I use fish, vermicast and kelp regularly too. It is not just the trace elements they contain but all sorts of essential hormones, proteins  and microbial species essential to keep the soil alive, as opposed to just a chemical cocktail.

Another good product that comercial farmers also use is common molasses. It contains iron, obviously sugar to feed the microbes, and it is good for cleaning trickle irrigation lines. It is fairly acidic and like all fertilisers more is not necessairly good. Something like 5ml per square meter is adequate.


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## arminius (28 October 2007)

i'm in mourning.

we had a ripe tomato about the size of a baseball which would have been the first one picked this season. i have been eyeing it off for a few days, deciding whens the best time to take it. 
it seems the local possums were thinking the same thing. i blamed the missus, then the neighbours, then the birds, but im sure it was the family of ringtails in the gum tree. 
hope they bloody well enjoyed it.


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## austek (28 October 2007)

Mofra said:


> Cheers austek, sounds like a good (and relatively simple) set-up.
> Just to clarify, are the strings attached to ground in some way initially or is that not required (assume after a few weeks the plants would be more self-supporting?). Cheers.
> 
> Think more for next year / winter crop as I have my summer plants in now




Mof, For tomatoes, securing string along the bottom is not required, I support them until a foot tall believe it or not with a perspex bubble gum machine top, this also acts as an open top cloche.  I have about 50 of these supplied by a friend, say no more.

What hydroponic growers do is leave strings hang loose, and tie a half hitch around the tomatoe plant to secure the string near the lower portion of the plant.  Then just wind string around the stem  upward as it grows.   Plants may sag a little but this is not a problem.  No other form of ties necessary.

This year I did try tying wire across the bottom from pole to pole to secure strings while growing snow peas up the same strings.  In the next few weeks I will untie the strings as the peas finish, and the tomatoes takeover.

Hope it not's confusing.  And don't forget the worm castings.  Great for tomatoes and the worms catch me trout on trout opening day.


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## Whiskers (28 October 2007)

arminius said:


> i'm in mourning.
> 
> we had a ripe tomato about the size of a baseball which would have been the first one picked this season. i have been eyeing it off for a few days, deciding whens the best time to take it.
> it seems the local possums were thinking the same thing. i blamed the missus, then the neighbours, then the birds, but im sure it was the family of ringtails in the gum tree.
> hope they bloody well enjoyed it.




:swear:

:shoot:

:hide:


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## Julia (28 October 2007)

arminius said:


> i'm in mourning.
> 
> we had a ripe tomato about the size of a baseball which would have been the first one picked this season. i have been eyeing it off for a few days, deciding whens the best time to take it.
> it seems the local possums were thinking the same thing. i blamed the missus, then the neighbours, then the birds, but im sure it was the family of ringtails in the gum tree.
> hope they bloody well enjoyed it.




Deep commiserations, Arminius.   How infuriating is that!
You will pick the next one on the first tinge of colour now, won't you.
Curses on all possums.  There are no good possums.  In NZ they are rightly treated as pests to be eradicated at all costs.
Mind you, I'd rate grasshoppers, caterpillars and rats pretty closely behind on the hate scale.


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## austek (29 October 2007)

Possums are a big worry.  I screwed some palings on the top of the back
fence, but this only reduces the number walking past chewing my beans & snow pea tops.   A slight help only, coz a family of them live in my large cotton tail palm.

But the goal post method of supporting tomatoes makes it easy to throw bird netting over the top covering the tomatoes.   This works!!

austek


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## Whiskers (30 October 2007)

Here is a recipe I came across to deter possums. It would be interesting to hear if anyone has tried it and if it works.

Some others I have heard of include mothballs, camphor and various commercial 'pest off' products, with limited success.



> *Jackie French’s strange object for the week*
> 
> *Possum Repellent*
> 
> ...


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## doogie_goes_off (30 October 2007)

I'd dare not hurt a ring tail possum (happy little fellas) but a good recipie for detering a rogue brush tail possum is a gumboot thrown with precision timing.


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## Julia (30 October 2007)

Whiskers,

I tried today to get the Tripple Ten you suggested at the Nikenbah produce store.  He doesn't have it and neither does anyone else in this area.
However, he reiterated your suggestion that it is best used in preparing the ground rather than in established gardens.  His conclusion was that because I have used so much animal manure and mushroom compost (mostly the latter because of its excellent water holding capacity) my Ph will be too low.
So I have now dosed the garden with Lime and will await the results.


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## Whiskers (31 October 2007)

Julia said:


> Whiskers,
> 
> I tried today to get the Tripple Ten you suggested at the Nikenbah produce store.  He doesn't have it and neither does anyone else in this area.
> However, he reiterated your suggestion that it is best used in preparing the ground rather than in established gardens.  His conclusion was that because I have used so much animal manure and mushroom compost (mostly the latter because of its excellent water holding capacity) my Ph will be too low.
> So I have now dosed the garden with Lime and will await the results.




Hi Julia

The Tripple Ten is made by Nutri-tech Solutions at Yandina. This is the link to the product description. http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/products_new/liquid-fertilisers/triple-ten-range.html . You can use the Tripple Ten from planting of seed or transplanting, but generally I would use a dry granular preplant such as CK55S or similar at about 40 to 50 g/m2 worked into the soil preplant as well. But if you prefer not to use synthetic fert, just apply Tripple Ten from start and a little heavier.

I always dealt direct with them and had product sent by post for up to 20 litre and rail for larger orders. They have recently started establishing a network of local agents. I know the one in Bundaberg, but if you wish to call them on their main business number they might have someone closer. Phone: +61 7 5472 9900 

A dose of lime probably won't hurt. But mushroom compost is usually fairly alkaline and organic fertilisers are generally fairly neutral to only slightly acidic. If you don't have a ph tester there are a few different types you can get. I don't like the electronic ones. They can give false readings. I prefer the one where you mix up a bit of soil with a special solution, dust it with the powder supplied, give it a few minutes to react and compare it to the colour chart. They are available at all garden supply outlets for a few dollars. Invaluable for taking the guesswork out of liming.

If you decide to get one and do a ph test, just select a spot outside where you have just limed. The fresh lime will skew the test. For best results I do at least two or three and average them.


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## Julia (31 October 2007)

Thanks, Whiskers - again!
Regards
Julia


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## onemore (2 November 2007)

Me Beans came up today .Also I've planted three dif types of tomato seedlings  today as well . The theory being which taste the best, which perform the best ,so next time i will just plant them . 

cheers


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## Whiskers (2 November 2007)

onemore said:


> Also I've planted three dif types of tomato seedlings  today as well . The theory being which taste the best, which perform the best ,so next time i will just plant them .
> 
> cheers




Good thinking onemore.

What varities did you plant?


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## Whiskers (2 November 2007)

Oh, apart from the few things I mentioned the other day, I also have a monstera deliciosa. This is not my plant, just one from wikipedia. This one is fairly old. It would take years to get that size. I just cut them back when they start getting too unruly.

Quite exquisite taste, like a sweet fruit salad in one plant.


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## onemore (2 November 2007)

Sweet Bite,Ox Heart and First Prize, the later seems to be the more sturdier plants.


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## Julia (2 November 2007)

onemore said:


> Sweet Bite,Ox Heart and First Prize, the later seems to be the more sturdier plants.




I've grown all of these.  The First Prize did no good at all, but both the others were excellent, producing lots of fruit and resistance to disease and pests.  Good luck with them.

Whiskers:  The Monstera Deliciosa is a plant I've always known as "The Fruit Salad Plant" which seems appropriate in view of your comment about the taste.

Another delicious fruit is the jaboticaba which is not at all well known or popular, possibly due to the fact that it bears no fruit until it's about 5 years old and also it's a rather boring looking tree.  The fruit is formed actually on the branches and is ready to eat when black and getting soft.  They are about the size of a large grape and taste similar, with maybe the sweetness of lychee.  Tough skin which you need to spit out.  Once they do fruit, they will then have about four crops every year and appear to be untroubled by disease or pests.


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## Whiskers (3 November 2007)

onemore said:


> Sweet Bite,Ox Heart and First Prize, the later seems to be the more sturdier plants.




You have a bit of a variety there, onemore. 

Ox Heart is a name I'm a bit familiar with. It was a common commercial variety years ago. You shouldn't go far wrong with it. 

Sweet Bite is like a nice cherry size tomato. I get one like that growing wild in cultivated ground, is pretty hardy and tastes delicious. 

Rouge de Marmande is another good tasting old variety especially for colder conditions.

The old Grosse Lisse was once an old favourite, but it is a bit soft and the centre often falls out when you cut it. 

I can recall when the QDPI Bundaberg research station started trialing new firmer varities that could tolerate a bit of rough handling, ie so they could be picked by hand and placed on conveyors to carry them to a bulk bin like tennis balls. They came up with some tough ones alright, almost like eating leather. They have improved the flavour over time, but this is the truth, the ultimate goal of comercial tomato breeding is to breed one that can be completely mechanically harvested. 

Floradade is one variety that was pretty firm, but didn't taste too flash.


----------



## onemore (29 November 2007)

Bean Question:

My bean plants have grown to the top of my fence.No signs of any beans yet,is it ok to cut the plants at that height or will that destroy them?

cheers


----------



## Whiskers (29 November 2007)

onemore said:


> Bean Question:
> 
> My bean plants have grown to the top of my fence.No signs of any beans yet,is it ok to cut the plants at that height or will that destroy them?
> 
> cheers




Hi onemore

Probably a bit late to prune them off. Some plants like tomatoes I nip the growing tip off when they are smaller to make them branch out more, but not heard it normally done to beans. But they will shoot out new branches if broken off.

I would be inclined to let them go because they must be close to flowering. What variety have you got?


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## onemore (29 November 2007)

Blue Lake ,
They only get about 5 hours a day sun.

My sweet bite have some small toms on them
Ox hearts not looking good no toms
First Prize Sturdy strong as have some small toms on them


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## Whiskers (29 November 2007)

onemore said:


> Blue Lake ,
> They only get about 5 hours a day sun.
> 
> My sweet bite have some small toms on them
> ...




A bit more sun wouldn't hurt, but I think the biggest problem is lack of nutrition. This seems apparent because the beans and Ox Heart are the hungriest feeders and suffering the most. Don't know whether you put in much preplant fert, a balanced N.P.K. like Crop King Q5 (abt 2 handfulls/m of row) or CK 55S (1 handfull/m of row).

Since they are near flowering they need a quick pick-me-up with some trace elements. Something like Thrive or Aquasol. If you mixed some Seasol with either of these it would improve their performance. Choose the one with a higher Phosphate and Potassium relative to Nitrogen. 

Alternatively, a little more expensive but I think better option is Tripple Ten from, http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/products_new/liquid-fertilisers/triple-ten-range.html, because it has a lot of organics plus Fulvic Acid which is claimed helps substitute for lack of sunlight. 

I'd give them a regular dose of fert each day for three or four days to pich them up quickly, then a couple of times a week until they finish flowering.


----------



## onemore (2 December 2007)

How do you know when lettuce is ready to be harvested.Is it x number of weeks or just certain size. I think the type I have is mignette or something like that.

Onemore


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## trj6911 (2 December 2007)

hello all ...my name is trev im a commercial grower in qld any questions on vegetables cucurbits eggplant and most things i have a lot of knowledge.
so fire them at me see what i can do.. 

whiskers

nurtitech products are fine but far to expensive for home or commercial plants 
it does work but the aim is to grow nutritious home grown food cheaply..


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## onemore (2 December 2007)

Trev ,

What about starting with my Question


----------



## Whiskers (2 December 2007)

onemore said:


> How do you know when lettuce is ready to be harvested.Is it x number of weeks or just certain size. I think the type I have is mignette or something like that.
> 
> Onemore




Hi onemore.

Use the harvest times on the packet as a guide, I think migionette is about 10 weeks, but when I have a few planted at one time I start picking some a bit earlier so that the last ones don't get too mature and start to taste a bit bitter. When they start to mature you will see the centre harden up and a seed stalk start to come out to about a foot high. 

I really liked the buttercrunch types... really crisp and not as strong flavour as some of the larger varieties... and you can pick them as young as you like. The younger they are the finer the flavour, but obviously you don't get so much.

Lettuce is classified as a leafy vegetable. The significance is that once established it doesn't need as much Phosphate as fruiting plants. Regular fertilisers like thrive and Aquasol will be fine. 

If you use a lot of liquid fertiliser, and you can get to a rural suplies store, A 20 Kg bag of something like Grow Force Flowfeed CO3 is a good all round fert for all fruit, veg, flowers and trees. Flowfeed DM3 has higher Phosphate and potassium and lower Nitrogen and is better suited to fruiting and flowering plants once they are established. Just note that natives don't like much fert.


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## Whiskers (2 December 2007)

trj6911 said:


> hello all ...my name is trev im a commercial grower in qld any questions on vegetables cucurbits eggplant and most things i have a lot of knowledge.
> so fire them at me see what i can do..
> 
> whiskers
> ...




Hi trev.

I have mentioned earlier that Nutri-Tech is a bit more expensive and suggested cheaper options as well. I personally grow commercially in lower volume for quality and home garden for the same reason. 

I find many people grow their own also for freshness and quality, because some comercial operators including the supermarkets over store fruit and veg to take advantage of buying at lower prices and kill the quality and goodness of the produce.


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## onemore (2 December 2007)

Thanks Whiskers,

I Have a feeling that there is not much about gardening that you don't know


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## UMike (2 December 2007)

arminius said:


> gday all,
> 
> coming into spring id just like to see if anyone else grows some vegies of their own.
> its hard to explain how good it feels to walk down to the garden in the morning or arvo and see them thriving.
> ...



I used to grow many things. 

Now with the water restrictions I mainly keep my Raspberries alive and continue to grow Asian herbs.


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## onemore (2 December 2007)

The reason I'm starting to grow some vege's is that they are so expensive to buy .Also when you cut a tomato in half for example its f.....g hollow most times . And fruit is force ripened and woody, eg Oranges.

The good organic stuff is so expensive to buy but taste heaps better.

I would'nt have a clue about growing vege's. But I'm starting to get results already with little effort .

Its the way to go .

Cheers ..........Onemore


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## INORE (3 December 2007)

Hi All...been growing veg for allmost 12 months now and loving it....

I have a prob with my first crop of strawberries...there is a good quantity of new fruit coming on but about 40% of the berries arent a true berry shape....more of a sought of bent/pointy skinny sought of shape...any ideas on whats going wrong???  too much fertiliser???  they really only have been getting seaweed solution fortnighly...they are growing in between a row of brussel sprouts on one side and tomatoes on the other.  they get watered daily and were put down on seedlings on a raised row woth sheep poo blend.
Cheers.


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## AndrewM123 (3 December 2007)

I also get bent/pointy and out of shape if I go near brussel sprouts.. Nasty things


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## Julia (3 December 2007)

AndrewM123 said:


> I also get bent/pointy and out of shape if I go near brussel sprouts.. Nasty things



Brussels Sprouts are delicious.  Steam them then roll in egg and breadcrumbs, sprinkle with sesame seeds and parmesan and grill until brown and crisp on top but tender inside.
Agree they are nasty if boiled and served plain.


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## Whiskers (3 December 2007)

INORE said:


> Hi All...been growing veg for allmost 12 months now and loving it....
> 
> I have a prob with my first crop of strawberries...there is a good quantity of new fruit coming on but about 40% of the berries arent a true berry shape....more of a sought of bent/pointy skinny sought of shape...any ideas on whats going wrong???  too much fertiliser???  they really only have been getting seaweed solution fortnighly...they are growing in between a row of brussel sprouts on one side and tomatoes on the other.  they get watered daily and were put down on seedlings on a raised row woth sheep poo blend.
> Cheers.




Hi INORE.

Got a bit of an idea, but need a bit more information. 

How are the brussel sprouts and tomatoes alongside looking?

Was there any fert mixed with the sheep poo? Have you only applied seaweed fert, like Seasol or something, ie with no added liquid N P K  such as thrive?


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## Whiskers (3 December 2007)

Julia said:


> Brussels Sprouts are delicious.  Steam them then roll in egg and breadcrumbs, sprinkle with sesame seeds and parmesan and grill until brown and crisp on top but tender inside.
> Agree they are nasty if boiled and served plain.




I'll have to try that one Julia, because I'm afraid I'm not a big fan of Brussel Sprouts either.


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## noirua (3 December 2007)

Julia said:


> Brussels Sprouts are delicious.  Steam them then roll in egg and breadcrumbs, sprinkle with sesame seeds and parmesan and grill until brown and crisp on top but tender inside.
> Agree they are nasty if boiled and served plain.




Looks quite unique that recipe, pity I'm allergic to eggs and don't eat bread or parmesan.

This is how it should be done:  http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/recipes/kitchentips/brusselssprouts.html


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## INORE (3 December 2007)

Whiskers said:


> Hi INORE.
> 
> Got a bit of an idea, but need a bit more information.
> 
> ...




cheers whiskers.
Tomatoes going well....brussell sprout plants now almost about 800mm high, sprouts are failing to form ie. just a bunch of open leafs that have failed to close and form a solid heart but the actual plants are big and well formed ( so i was thinking of taking these plants out which are about 5 months old now cos i dont think i am gonna get any luck)

as for the strawberry plansts, i think i followed peter cundalls recipe of 1 handful of 75% blood/bone and 25% lime mix per m2.  and this all went together with the sheep poo and soil.  I have only applied seasol concentrate 30ml/9litres, except for two weeks ago when i applied the packet dosage of some NPK blue about two weeks ago, but, deformations were allready there.  the strawberry plants are all very healthy with no discoloration and nice growth.  i think the seedlings are now about 3 months old.
Cheers.


----------



## Whiskers (3 December 2007)

INORE said:


> cheers whiskers.
> Tomatoes going well....brussell sprout plants now almost about 800mm high, sprouts are failing to form ie. just a bunch of open leafs that have failed to close and form a solid heart but the actual plants are big and well formed ( so i was thinking of taking these plants out which are about 5 months old now cos i dont think i am gonna get any luck)
> 
> as for the strawberry plansts, i think i followed peter cundalls recipe of 1 handful of 75% blood/bone and 25% lime mix per m2.  and this all went together with the sheep poo and soil.  I have only applied seasol concentrate 30ml/9litres, except for two weeks ago when i applied the packet dosage of some NPK blue about two weeks ago, but, deformations were allready there.  the strawberry plants are all very healthy with no discoloration and nice growth.  i think the seedlings are now about 3 months old.
> Cheers.




Yeah, I think I have it INORE.

I think if you got some Potassium Sulphate ( Potassium Nitrate will do, but not Potassium Chloride) and spread a handful or two per m2 around close to the strawberries in particular, and water in, it should fix the strawberries, and you might still get some brussel sprouts and will improve the quality and sweetness of the tomatoes. 

Potassium is needed by plants more than any other nutrient, because it's important for the number and size of fruit that set. It's also important in the formation of sugars, proteins, cellulose and enzymes and allowing the leaves to breath to sort of act like 'lungs'. I'd say your plants 'lungs' are running a bit inefficiently due to a low balance of potassium particularly relative to Phosphate.

The other thing is that while seaweed is good, it is normally used as an adjunct to regular fert's like thrive to help the plant metabalise regular fert's better. Seaweeds contain, among other things, growth hormones which can cause some distortion of plants in certain circumstances if a balanced nutrient supply is not available. I think because of the relatively low levels of potassium, the flowers are not opening properly causing the fruit to bend. In some fruits even cold weather can damage the flower causing a scar on one side of the fruit where it didn't release properly and often bend or have deformed growth on it.

Your Blood and Bone and Lime mix is good for conditioning the soil and providing Nitrogen, Phosphate and Calcium, but it has no Potassium in it. A preplant fertilizer should have about equal amounts of N P K. With that mix you use I would add 1/2 handfull of Potassium Sulphate for each 1 of the blood and Bone and Lime. Actually you could use dolimite instead of lime if you want to use it for a preplant fert for each crop because dolimite isn't near as strong of a ph neutraliser and it has some magnesium also. Too much lime can cause the soil ph to rise too high and create another set of problems.

That should fix it, INORE.

PS. Your tomatoes have the most vigerous and deepest root system and would be robbing potassium from the strawberries and probably a bit from the brussel sprouts as well. That would be why they are looking better.


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## AndrewM123 (3 December 2007)

noirua said:


> Looks quite unique that recipe, pity I'm allergic to eggs and don't eat bread or parmesan.




LOL   any excuse not to eat sprouts...


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## INORE (3 December 2007)

Whiskers said:


> Yeah, I think I have it INORE.
> 
> I think if you got some Potassium Sulphate ( Potassium Nitrate will do, but not Potassium Chloride) and spread a handful or two per m2 around close to the strawberries in particular, and water in, it should fix the strawberries, and you might still get some brussel sprouts and will improve the quality and sweetness of the tomatoes.
> 
> ...




cheers whiskers...however i did recently put down some NPK....so perhaps i will find out the balance of NPK and get back to you to see if i need to add more as i dont wanna over do it....thanks again.

and we have had some sort of unseasonal coolish 5-10deg c nites weather in perth recently so perhaps that is also contributing...


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## Julia (3 December 2007)

INORE said:


> cheers whiskers...however i did recently put down some NPK....so perhaps i will find out the balance of NPK and get back to you to see if i need to add more as i dont wanna over do it....thanks again.
> 
> and we have had some sort of unseasonal coolish 5-10deg c nites weather in perth recently so perhaps that is also contributing...



Well that probably discounts the suggestion I was going to make re possibly the B. Sprouts not being in a cold enough climate.  They used to be plentiful in the South Island of NZ in Spring which would be much colder than Perth.
Similarly, the difference in taste between root vegetables grown in a cold climate and those grown in e.g. Qld is very marked.  Here they just taste of nothing.


----------



## trj6911 (3 December 2007)

Whiskers said:


> Hi trev.
> 
> I have mentioned earlier that Nutri-Tech is a bit more expensive and suggested cheaper options as well. I personally grow commercially in lower volume for quality and home garden for the same reason.
> 
> I find many people grow their own also for freshness and quality, because some comercial operators including the supermarkets over store fruit and veg to take advantage of buying at lower prices and kill the quality and goodness of the produce.




gday whiskers 
super markets are control freaks sending little business broke real quick they rip their customers off far too much and shoppers just keep shopping there.
on the other hand i supply supermkt chains and without them it would be super tough to survive as they pay much more than cms..
anyway hav a good 1..trev


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## austek (5 December 2007)

Inore, whiskers will correct me if wrong (I hope) but I believe strawbs need
heavy soil like red loam to keep shallow roots moist and stronger fowl manure,
but you gotta keep the tomatoes well away from fresh strong fert.


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## INORE (5 December 2007)

well i havnt done my experiments yet but it does appear that these mutant strawberries appear to be coming of just a few of the plants...the rest seem normal...

BUT i have another prob...i planted a juvinile grafted citrus tree (about 500mm tall) and did all the right things when i put it in the hole...however that was about 3 months ago...since then it has flowered with fruit set which i promptly pinched out as i thought i was supposed to do BUT now there doesnt seem to be any and i mean any new leaf growth...the existing leaves are fine...normal colour and shape and not dropping to ground...nothing seems to be eating the existing leaves which number about 30 or so...its just stunted...i thought as the weather was warming up i would get good growth...it gets watered every 3rd day for about 15mins...and i try to water it deeply every fortnight...the ground is moist with a layer of mulch over with some sheep poo and lime/blood and bone mix in to boot.  it hasnt grown a new leaf for about a month now....about 2 weeks ago i gave it the recommended dose of citrus food and still nothing HELP...sunlight of about 4-5 hours a day but that has allways been the case and it was shooting well for about a month after planting...cheers for any advice


----------



## Julia (5 December 2007)

INORE said:


> well i havnt done my experiments yet but it does appear that these mutant strawberries appear to be coming of just a few of the plants...the rest seem normal...
> 
> BUT i have another prob...i planted a juvinile grafted citrus tree (about 500mm tall) and did all the right things when i put it in the hole...however that was about 3 months ago...since then it has flowered with fruit set which i promptly pinched out as i thought i was supposed to do BUT now there doesnt seem to be any and i mean any new leaf growth...the existing leaves are fine...normal colour and shape and not dropping to ground...nothing seems to be eating the existing leaves which number about 30 or so...its just stunted...i thought as the weather was warming up i would get good growth...it gets watered every 3rd day for about 15mins...and i try to water it deeply every fortnight...the ground is moist with a layer of mulch over with some sheep poo and lime/blood and bone mix in to boot.  it hasnt grown a new leaf for about a month now....about 2 weeks ago i gave it the recommended dose of citrus food and still nothing HELP...sunlight of about 4-5 hours a day but that has allways been the case and it was shooting well for about a month after planting...cheers for any advice



I pulled out all my citrus trees a few years ago because they were no longer getting enough sun but I do recall that the main growth period was from about April through to October/early November.  It sounds as though your tree has been doing everything right and you just need to adjust your expectations.  Also, I would have thought it was getting too much water at 15 minutes every third day.  Unless you mean that's 15 minutes of a very slow rate drip system?  They don't need that much water.  My father had wonderful citrus trees which fruited heavily every year.  He almost never watered them.


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## Whiskers (6 December 2007)

hi INORE.

I would agree with Julia. I think you are probably killing this one with kindness. Let it completely dry out for a few weeks in case you have a bit of root rot damage. Keep plenty of mulch around it but not right up against the trunk. This can cause colar rot... like ringbarking the tree.

I like to slowly saturate the soil after planting for a week or so, then err on the drier side to allow the roots to go deep and wide, otherwise they tend to 'ball' around the watered area. Pick up the watering again when flowering starts until full fruit development, then ease off again as they start ripening and you should have sweeter rather than watery fruit.

You did the right thing nipping the flower buds off. It will establish much better for that and give better crop later. 

I also hardly water my citrus, mangoes etc except for the fruiting period. I like Julias phraseology... "you just need to adjust your expectations". It should come alright. 

Just as a footnote luxury levels of Potassium will certainly benifit to help make the most of limited sunlight because apart from the fruiting boost, it is most responsible for thick stems, large leaves and the operation of those stomata that allow the plant to breath.


----------



## trj6911 (6 December 2007)

another idea planting any tree always dig a square hole this stops roots from going in circles....


----------



## Whiskers (6 December 2007)

austek said:


> Inore, whiskers will correct me if wrong (I hope) but I believe strawbs need
> heavy soil like red loam to keep shallow roots moist and stronger fowl manure,
> but you gotta keep the tomatoes well away from fresh strong fert.




Hi austek.

Yes, strawberries only have a shallow root system and certainly do better if mulched and do like the heavier soils.

Fowl manure has a disproportionate amount of nitrogen and phosphate to potassium and can release all of it's nitrogen at once in hot wet conditions, giving vigirous plant growth but few and poor fruit. It has relatively little nutrition. It's main benifit is in conditioning the soil with microbes to deliver the nutrients into the plants roots more effectively. 

You don't want to plant seedlings in fresh manures as it can burn the roots, some more than others. Mix it and let it stand for a few days. Tomatoes however will need more fert than strawberries because it is a bigger plant producing more fruit by mass.

Assuming all the plant residues are returned to the soil, the amount of fert you need to replace for the next crop is loosely proportionate to the mass of the harvest... because you took some nutrients out of the cycle with the harvest and transported them away.


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## Whiskers (6 December 2007)

trj6911 said:


> another idea planting any tree always dig a square hole this stops roots from going in circles....




Most definately, trj6911.

It is a flaw that people often make, particularly in heavier soils. Once I have the hole dug I like to punch a few holes in the corners for good measure with a crowbar to give the roots a spot to escape the hole.

Actually, INORE I assumed you made a square hole. But if your soil is heavy and the hole is round, when it is moist but not wet, you could drive a fork into the ground just outside the hole and lever it towards the tree a little to break up the round surface.


----------



## austek (6 December 2007)

Whiskers said:


> Hi austek.
> 
> Yes, strawberries only have a shallow root system and certainly do better if mulched and do like the heavier soils.
> 
> ...




Whiskers,

When I grew strawbs I grew heaps, but yes some were not as big as they could have been.  Remember carting them up to EDEN NSW in a car fridge in layers at xmas time to have with xmas pud.  The fowl manure was recommended in a govt pamphlet so what you say is interesting.

You say tomatoes like more fert so what do you recommend.  I just use worm castings (worms I use to catch trout on trout opening season).  If I remember which is not often, I mix in  cow manure to the soil a few months before the seedlings go in.

Besides an occasional spray with fertilizer is their anything else I can feed them with ?


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## Whiskers (6 December 2007)

Hi austek.

These two phamphlets show the main chemical fertilisers I use and are commonly used in Qld. The Grow Force Flowfeed one gives a good guide to what each blend is used for.

The main preplant fert I use and is common in Qld is Crop King 55S. It's a good allround blend. Cucurbit Special or Tomato TE have less nitrogen to ensure that you don't get too much vegative growth and start fruiting lower on the bush. 

Grow Force is probably the industry standard in fertigation. Flowfeed BM7 is used for double cropping, where a follow up crop is planted in the same beds, as a soluble preplant fert. CO3 is commonly used to promote vigerous seedling growth and then switch to DM3 to promote good flowering and fruitset.

But as you can see there are numerous combinations one can get and sometimes we get a batch made to match our exact requirements from soil tests. 

For the vege garden I use  a good handful or two of granular preplant fert per m2 and about a tablespoon of the soluble in a 10l water can a couple times per week on veges. A bit more if needed as they start flowering. These products are probably only available at rural supplies stores.

Alternatives that are usually available at nurseries are Q5, Nitrophoska Blue or Rustica for preplant and Thrive or Aquasol for fertigation.

Nutri-Tech Tripple Ten that I have mentioned earlier is often used as a preplant or at planting and as a phosphate boost when coming up to flowering.

I also often used vermicast, fish emulsion and kelp in the fertigation as well with a bit of molasses ocassionally for a bit of iron but mainly to clean the trickle lines and provide sugars for microbe food.


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## austek (6 December 2007)

Thanks for that Whiskers,

I'll give triple ten a try, and study your fertilizer pamphlet.

Currently I use Phostrogen NPK:12.5:5.0:24.5 which is probably pretty close to the mark.  perhaps It's time to grow tomatoes in other fresher soil where they haven't been before, but a bird problem prevents that.

I like to be able to view toms from the rear glass doors


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## Whiskers (6 December 2007)

austek said:


> Thanks for that Whiskers,
> 
> I'll give triple ten a try, and study your fertilizer pamphlet.
> 
> ...




Hey austek, if you have been growing tomatoes in the same ground it might pay to have a look for other problems like nematodes.

That Phostrogen has good potassium. It should give you good fruit. 

Often when people lime gardens they can become low in balance for Magnesium, unles you use dolomite. Often a dose of magnesium sulphate will flush toxens out of plants when they are not doing very well, in the same way a dose of epsom salts (magnesuim sulphate) works as a laxative for humans. I you haven't been applying any you could water in a handful per m2 it won't do any harm. It's dirt cheap. 



> Introduction
> Root-knot nematodes (Meloidogyne spp.) are minute, worm-like animals which are very common in soil. They have a wide host range, causing problems in many annual and perennial crops. Tomatoes are among the most seriously affected, with the nematodes causing problems in all growing areas.
> 
> In this DPI&F Note, the biology and management of root-knot nematode is discussed. Although this information is specific for tomatoes, the principles can be applied to most other annual crops.
> ...


----------



## Jockstar73 (6 December 2007)

Hi,
have been reading this thread off and on for a little while and so thought that I would just say hi.....
My wife and I bought a house about a year ago after living in apartments for the last 8 or so years....    so now with an actual front yard and back yard, we put in our first Vegetable patch...  we grew some Tomatoes last year and they went great guns, so we are excited about how this venture will go..  they have only been in for 3 weeks but have boomed...  here is a pic.....

I think we got too excited..  we planted..

tomatoes
lettace
carrots
strawberrys
zuccini
cucumber
spring onion
spinach
chilli
capsicum
bassal
parsley

Cheers...  Jock


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## nioka (23 May 2008)

It is months since this thread was bumped. Has everyone given up gardening. Maybe it is getting too cold for the southerners but in this place (God's own country) the garden is blossoming with both summer and winter crops. This week I have picked lettuces, spinnach, zucchini, tomatoes, beans, choko, lemons, mandarines, tanjellos, pomellos,strawberries, tamarillos, potatoes, and more. The weather is cool enough to enjoy the outdoors (between checking the shares and ASF of course). Remember when the world wearies and life doesn't satisfy, there is always the garden. The home grown always tastes better and you don't have to eat pesticides etc.


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## INORE (23 May 2008)

nice post nioka...

down here in wet and coolish perth i have just planted about 40 seed potatoes for a september harvest....and some baby potatoes for that winter roast...i planted about 20 capsicum seedilings about 4 months ago and didnt realise how prolific they can produce...(can anyone tell me how easy it is to transplant these?) they are now slowing right down with the cool weather...brocolli in as well...corn crop missed the warm weather boat so i will be pulling them up this weekend...

i am still having trouble with my 60cm tall citrus that is dropping leaves and has leaves yellowing at the tip.  i put epsom salt solution on about two weeks ago without any result so far...will try manganese or magnesium spray come spring and see if that has any effect....

cheers


----------



## Whiskers (23 May 2008)

INORE said:


> nice post nioka...
> 
> down here in wet and coolish perth i have just planted about 40 seed potatoes for a september harvest....and some baby potatoes for that winter roast...i planted about 20 capsicum seedilings about 4 months ago and didnt realise how prolific they can produce...(can anyone tell me how easy it is to transplant these?) they are now slowing right down with the cool weather...brocolli in as well...corn crop missed the warm weather boat so i will be pulling them up this weekend...




Hi INORE

The capsicums will plant out from trays or pots and recover fine. Soak them in a seaweed water mix before you transplant will give them the best chance.

If they are in the ground and you want to move some, soak with seaweed mix, slash the tops off then transplant the stump with as much soil as you can. I often prune the bush right back and let it ratoon another crop. Some commercial growers just put the slasher over them to prune them back for another crop.



> i am still having trouble with my 60cm tall citrus that is dropping leaves and has leaves yellowing at the tip.  i put epsom salt solution on about two weeks ago without any result so far...will try manganese or magnesium spray come spring and see if that has any effect....




INORE, since this didn't rectify over the summer it is looking like a soil ph issue. Cool damp conditions can exasipate the problem. There are a couple of other nutrients that can also cause yellowing and stunting that may require adding something other than what the visual signs of deficiency suggest, ie what is causing the imbalance.

Can you give some detail of the soil, eg sand, sandy loam, clay loam, clay... and soil colour, white, grey, brown, red, black.

Any chance you have one of those home ph kits, and get a ph reading of the natural soil that hasn't been affected by lime or fert and another in the transplant hole?

Also do you know if it was a grafted citrus and what the rootstock was?

If you can remember how much lime and magnesium you have applied to it, that would be helpful also.


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## nioka (23 May 2008)

INORE said:


> .
> 
> i am still having trouble with my 60cm tall citrus that is dropping leaves and has leaves yellowing at the tip.  i put epsom salt solution on about two weeks ago without any result so far...will try manganese or magnesium spray come spring and see if that has any effect....
> 
> cheers



Citrus have a very touchy trace element requirement. When I plant a citrus tree I put a piece of copper wire, a crushed jam tin and a few galvanised nails in the hole. A trick used in the days before trace element fertilisers. I give each tree a spoonfull of epsom salts yearly and plenty of poultry manure. Mulch well and sit back and wait for the fruit. Wtih mature trees you can put a copper nail and a galv roofing nail in the trunk.

As whiskers points out, citrus don't like wet feet nor dry feet. The PH is also important. A treatment of sulphate of potash helps if the fruit are not juicy and sweet.


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## INORE (23 May 2008)

Whiskers said:


> Hi INORE
> 
> The capsicums will plant out from trays or pots and recover fine. Soak them in a seaweed water mix before you transplant will give them the best chance.
> 
> ...




Thanks whiskers. The capsicums are about 1 meter tall in ground.  when i transplant, how much of the stem should be left?  With the plants that i dont transplant, are you saying that they should get a good pruning at this time of year?  and should i just harvest remaing capsicums before pruning?



Citrus.
i have test kit so will test.  The surrounding soil is grey sand, but when i planted i dug a big hole and filled with landscape sand mix (from a soil place).  citrus is grafted and i will get back to you with rootstock...
i do have the citrus in a reasonably 'light competitive location' (in between a hibiscus and a screenmaster bush) but would that effect the leaf drop?

cheers


----------



## jonojpsg (25 May 2008)

Hey all,
IT's getting a little depressing down here in the far south (Hobart) with the garden not doing much at the mo.  I do have a nice raised bed facing north though set against the wall of our sunroom so this is growing some nice winter potatoes and lettuce spinach leeks etc.  I actually have some tiny tim tomatoes and basil plants that are doing well inside the sunroom - makes for a little bit of joy seeing homegrown toms during winter down here 

I'm jealous nioka - might move up that way when i retire


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## Julia (25 May 2008)

jonojpsg said:


> Hey all,
> IT's getting a little depressing down here in the far south (Hobart) with the garden not doing much at the mo.  I do have a nice raised bed facing north though set against the wall of our sunroom so this is growing some nice winter potatoes and lettuce spinach leeks etc.  I actually have some tiny tim tomatoes and basil plants that are doing well inside the sunroom - makes for a little bit of joy seeing homegrown toms during winter down here
> 
> I'm jealous nioka - might move up that way when i retire



jono, I do sympathise.  Spent most of my life in Christchurch , NZ where the ground was frozen solid through much of the winter.  When I moved to Qld I thought, wonderful, I will be able to grow everything all year round.
Ah, wrong!  The summer is much too hot for vegetables for the most part.
In autumn/winter, yes things grow quite well, but just when they are looking good along come all the pests and diseases you can imagine.  I've had flourishing silverbeet one day and the next morning just a sliver of the stem remains.  Ditto with basil.  The bean fly will wipe out a crop of beans in a day.
Then your tomatoes will suffer from various fungal diseases.

I'd guess that where you are now at least in the growing season you can grow most vegetables without any trouble.  

In summary, there advantages and disadvantages wherever you live.


----------



## jonojpsg (25 May 2008)

HI Julia,
Too true - I have very little issue with pests down here and I have had a great summer season although my toms got sturck down by some fungal disease this year which was a major bummer 

And the cool weather bonuses of raspberries, blueberries, cherries, etc. make it worthwhile 

I am looking at selling my current place and building on a beautiful north facing internal block where we can site the house right at the back/top of the block and I can have about 300m2 of the block at the bottom to basically make us self sufficient   Boy am I looking forward to that.

Thanks for making me look on the bright side of things


----------



## nioka (25 May 2008)

Julia said:


> jono, I do sympathise.  Spent most of my life in Christchurch , NZ where the ground was frozen solid through much of the winter.  When I moved to Qld I thought, wonderful, I will be able to grow everything all year round.
> Ah, wrong!  The summer is much too hot for vegetables for the most part.
> In autumn/winter, yes things grow quite well, but just when they are looking good along come all the pests and diseases you can imagine.  I've had flourishing silverbeet one day and the next morning just a sliver of the stem remains.  Ditto with basil.  The bean fly will wipe out a crop of beans in a day.
> Then your tomatoes will suffer from various fungal diseases.
> ...




I was brought up near Gayndah and also lived for a time near Bundaberg so I realise how hard it is when it gets hot but..

It can be done. We used to grow a row or two of corn in the summer and use it to shade other crops by growing them with the corn.A lot of companion planting will help with the insects. We always had a lot of dwarf marigolds ( must be dwarf and I don't know why) and herbs growing with the vegies. 
There is a tomato which is mostly bug free, it's called a potato tomato and is a heritage tomato I grow it summer and winter. Smallish but tasty. Beans must be hilled up by continually hilling soil around the bottom of the plant and Purple king climbing beans do not have a lot of problems. Brown mignonette lettuce if mulched do OK in hot weather. Squash and pumpkin need to be sprayed to keep the fungus down, we used to grow zucchini and get a quick crop off before the mildew and then dig in the plants and plant more. Grow potatoes by mulching with 4 inches of cane mulch.

Just think how much you can grow through the winter when all they can grow down south is a crop of leeks.

Enjoy the garden.


----------



## Whiskers (25 May 2008)

INORE said:


> Thanks whiskers. The capsicums are about 1 meter tall in ground.  when i transplant, how much of the stem should be left?  With the plants that i dont transplant, are you saying that they should get a good pruning at this time of year?  and should i just harvest remaing capsicums before pruning?




You will need to leave a few 'eye's' or 'nodes'. Generally trim off a few inches above where branching starts. 

If they are still producing fruit ok I'd keep picking them, or some anyway until later in winter, than prune them off to rejeuvinate and ratoon as the weather warms up. But if you get bad frosts it would be better to leave them stand until the frosts passed.

Generally they are slashed off when the best part of the crop is harvested to get a ratoon crop quicker than replanting before the end of the season, ie before it gets too hot or too cold.




> Citrus.
> i have test kit so will test.  The surrounding soil is grey sand, but when i planted i dug a big hole and filled with landscape sand mix (from a soil place).  citrus is grafted and i will get back to you with rootstock...
> i do have the citrus in a reasonably 'light competitive location' (in between a hibiscus and a screenmaster bush) but would that effect the leaf drop?
> 
> cheers




We have an agronomist on the forum. I'll see if I can get her to have a look too when you post the results back.


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## Whiskers (25 May 2008)

nioka said:


> I was brought up near Gayndah and also lived for a time near Bundaberg




Well nioka, we've shared some of the same old stomping ground. I used to get to and through Gayndah quite often. I'm still near Bundaberg.

And Yes it does get pretty hot late Jan and Feb. You need plenty of water if the rain fails to grow much here then. But as you say if you use natural mulch and companion planting it works well. 

Green mulch works well. Yes, just let the grass grow in summer to shade the ground from the heat. True green mulch involves planting particular grass, legumes or companion plants.

I used to grow squash and zucchinni commercially, often into the hot summer if the south had late frosts or rain. I found it more economical to grow hot weather varieties that grew extremely fast and not spray pesticides. The seed would shoot in three days, water and fertilise generously, keeping nitrates on lower side and luxury brix to lessen midew and start picking in 5 to 5 1/2 weeks and go like hell for a month or so. The new growth would literally grow faster than the mildew could catch up. They grow so quickly that sometimes I'd even pick twice a day if the money was good for the medium size.

And yes most farms are pretty frost free around here and there is a lot of planting going on from late summer right through winter to late spring.


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## roland (14 June 2008)

So, I spent the day digging up one of my mother's small patches of garden that has sat there for 30 years barely supporting the "Money Tree", that I wasn't allowed to rip out due to bad luck being thrust upon me (as if I needed more with the demise of BBP), a "cigarette tree" (so named by mum, because the flowers looked like burning cigarettes), some old bromiliads and other un-named leafy things - all out - except for the "Money Tree"

We extended the "garden" by extracting some badly neglected grass (I would have named it better by calling it green weeds) - anyway, the garden now encompasses the Lemon tree we planted for her (which actually is starting to produce), and a lonely miniature nectarine, which has grown about 2 inches in 2 years. It currently looks like a couple of sticks since it has dropped all it's leaves (all 20 of them)

I built a little retaining wall of half sawn treated pine logs from Bunnings to stop the dirt from washing into the neighbours place, since her property is on a slope, dug up the clay, threw in some gypsum as a clay breaker, added some left over course sand from paver relaying project around the BBQ area that has taken me 6 weeks, chucked in a heap of chicken pellets and a few bags of Bunnings potting mix (on special for 2.46 per 25 litre bag).

Now, in my wife's effort to try and grow something we can eat, we rutted a trench and layed down a pack of carrots (2,000 seeds in 1 pack!).

Back home and on the net researching carrots reveals that they need even, and non-obstructive soil - no rocks, or lumps of other stuff to impede the carrot as it sends down it's fine leading root.

Well, looks like we are going to have alien distorted carrots, if any at all 

In any case, I wanted to share the following website that I came across searching for carrots that I found quite entertaining - from a gardening perspective:

http://canieatit.co.uk/


By the way, growing the lemon tree is heaps rewarding. It has some yellowing on the leaves. Tonight on ABC gardening they were talking about citrus and it seems like the yellowing leaves could be some iron deficiancy - need to investigate trace element supplements.

The above website link also has some links to someone growing inverted tomatoes and the potatoe in a bucket challenge looks like fun

Enjoy!


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## Julia (15 June 2008)

Roland, the yellowing on the citrus leaves is sometimes due to magnesium deficiency.  Try giving it Epsom Salts, about 2tbs to a bucket of water poured over the whole tree.  If it doesn't cure the problem it won't hurt it.


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## kenny (15 June 2008)

Roland,

Having been brainwashed by my organic-lly bent missus; I might ask if you checked that the treated pine retainers are arsenic free ones at least? We are pretty much considered paranoid by our gardening friends but we took out all treated pine logs prior to starting a veggie patch. The treatment solution, whether arsenic based or not seeps out into the surrounding soil 20cm or so for at least 5 - 10 years and isn't really necessary for your diet let's just say.

Google it and try to screen out some of the more extremist views either way.

Cheers,

Kenny


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## roland (15 June 2008)

kenny said:


> Roland,
> 
> Having been brainwashed by my organic-lly bent missus; I might ask if you checked that the treated pine retainers are arsenic free ones at least? We are pretty much considered paranoid by our gardening friends but we took out all treated pine logs prior to starting a veggie patch. The treatment solution, whether arsenic based or not seeps out into the surrounding soil 20cm or so for at least 5 - 10 years and isn't really necessary for your diet let's just say.
> 
> ...




I just lined the inside of the pine logs with some of that heavy plastic sheeting where they would contact the soil. Also the carrots are around 3 feet away. The logs may not even be treated, since they don't carry that distinctive green colour.

Good "heads up" though


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## roland (15 June 2008)

Julia said:


> Roland, the yellowing on the citrus leaves is sometimes due to magnesium deficiency.  Try giving it Epsom Salts, about 2tbs to a bucket of water poured over the whole tree.  If it doesn't cure the problem it won't hurt it.




OK, will give that a try. It's been planted in very heavy clay soil about 2 years ago. It's been growing quite well - at least double in size now. First year mum got 3 lemons, this year at least 10 with more coming along.

When I planted it I put in a heap of chook pellets. Yesterday I asked mum to Seasol it every 2 weeks.

There are 2 x lemons on it that look like they are not going to be any good - dwarfed and an odd colour, so it's missing something. I also clipped off a couple of branch shoots that had a couple of deformed/curled leaves.


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## kenny (15 June 2008)

No problems, Roland.

We started the whole gardening at home thing for the kids to get an understanding of where food came from and it's been very good for that.

Chickens would be the next logical step but the neighbours wouldn't be too keen I suspect.

Cheers,

Kenny


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## doogie_goes_off (15 June 2008)

Roland, I'm struggling with a lemon tree in clay soil too, thought it was a magnesium deficiency but no luck, have just tried hitting it with Iron Sulphate, if that doesn't work will try a trace elements mix. Stupid clay!


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## roland (15 June 2008)

doogie_goes_off said:


> Roland, I'm struggling with a lemon tree in clay soil too, thought it was a magnesium deficiency but no luck, have just tried hitting it with Iron Sulphate, if that doesn't work will try a trace elements mix. Stupid clay!




One thing about clay soil is that it doesn't allow water to penetrate. So I suspect that anything you try to add to the watering may just get washed away without getting to the roots.

Something else I did yesterday was to break up the ground all around the tree (down to about 15 inches all around the tree) and mixed in a little sand, gypsom and a couple of bags of potting mix (and chook poo!). This should help get whatever additives to the roots.

Next time I go home to mum's I'll try Julia's trick with the Epsom salts.


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## doogie_goes_off (15 June 2008)

I'm no expert but I'd say that too much chook poo would produce lots of growth (Nitrogen rich) leaving a big gap in the other necessary elements an potetially with lots of funny leaves. Have been braking my ground up too to help pentrate the soil. It's a sad looking spiky stick but the under sized lemons are tasty


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## roland (15 June 2008)

Yes, you are probably right - but this is the first lot of chook poo it's had in a year, so I don't think it's going overboard - probably needs some Potash and Magnesium next


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## roland (15 June 2008)

Here is something I came across:

Position

The best position for a lemon tree is in a sunny, but frost-free position, where there is protection from prevailing winds. The soil must be well-drained. If you have heavy clay soil, then planting the tree in a raised bed is a good idea. Make the planting hole very wide and basin shaped.

Watering

Lemon trees have shallow, fibrous root systems than can dry out easily in hot or windy weather. Regular watering is essential to keep the tree healthy. Water the area around the drip-line and beyond. If the soil dries out, flowers, leaves and immature fruit may drop.

Fertiliser

Lemon trees need fertiliser that is high in nitrogen. You can use a special citrus fertiliser or a mixed fertiliser with a high N component. (Most mixed fertilisers have an NPK of around 5:1:4 so you would look for one with a higher N content.) Blood and Bone is an organic fertiliser high in nitrogen. Thrive is a liquid fertiliser with a high N content and can be used as a "quick fix" if the tree is showing signs of nitrogen deficiency i.e. yellowing mature leaves. However, yellowing may be a sign of other problems. If the young leaves are turning yellow in between the veins that remain like a green skeleton, then the problem is most likely to be iron deficiency and this is often caused by alkaline soil or poor drainage. Apply iron chelates. If the tip and the edges of the old leaves turn yellow, leaving a green triangle at the base, then it may indicate a magnesium deficiency. Treat with Epsom salts. Remember though, that yellowing of leaves may be caused by water stress, cold weather, or other factors, so eliminate these first!

Mulching

Mulching is important to keep roots moist and to prevent weeds from growing around the tree. Lemon trees dislike competition from grass and other plants. Mulch should not be deeper than 7cm and must be kept well back from the trunk to prevent the development of collar rot.

Pruning

Lemon trees often do not need pruning much at all. Tidy up any wayward branches and cut out dead wood. It is a good idea to prune off lower branches to allow air to circulate freely under the tree as this discourages the development of some fungal diseases.


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## doogie_goes_off (15 June 2008)

I chose the best position I could for mine, still cant keep away from frosts in the worst time, the last one was destroyed by wind and then a marauding dog, so learnt that lesson too, I think I'll try a raised bed next time if this bugger does not work. The mix described is high in K (potassium) as well as Nitrogen so potash is obviously important. Someone once told me that Nitrogen was for leaf development and Potassium was essential for strong roots, so both are probably important. Another thing I heard was that "chelated Iron" was easier for them to absorb, hence the idea of going to a trace element mix after trying this Iron Sulphate supplement.


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## Happy (15 June 2008)

doogie_goes_off said:


> Roland, I'm struggling with a lemon tree in clay soil too, thought it was a magnesium deficiency but no luck, have just tried hitting it with Iron Sulphate, if that doesn't work will try a trace elements mix. Stupid clay!





Actually clay is quite fertile medium; problem is air access and waterlogging.

While ago when Don Bourke had his TV program he mentioned something about creating a mound of good soil say 30 to 50 cm high and planting lemon tree in the mound. 

Drainage will be no problem and all the minerals contained in clay will be accessible by roots.

Few slippers can keep soil in place; lemon should have stakes to help it withstand the wind.

As to too much nitrogen, I wouldn't be too worried as experts say that even straight pee is good for the lemon tree, which seems to be very hungry feeder, almost as hungry as avocado tree.


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## Julia (15 June 2008)

Roland, re the chook poo, it might be a good idea to take a soil sample to your local produce store and get it Ph tested.   I know that using lots of chook poo + mushroom compost in my flower garden made the soil very acid over time.  If the Ph is not right, then all the nutrients you apply to the tree will be wasted as they will not be taken up.  

Btw this also applies to lawns.   Continued application of high nitrogen fertilisers for lawns will eventually require an application of lime to balance up the Ph.   Years ago we were applying lots of lawn fertiliser and getting no result.  Gave it a dose of lime and it sprang into growth.

Sometimes, though, I think we can get too picky about our plants.
If the lemon tree (or anything else) is growing and producing fruit/flowers, then if a few leaves turn yellow and drop off, then maybe there's a case for just not worrying about it.  I've spent ridiculous amounts of time and effort on troublesome plants when the better alternative would have been to rip them out and plant something easier.


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## Julia (15 June 2008)

roland said:


> I also clipped off a couple of branch shoots that had a couple of deformed/curled leaves.




Sounds like the citrus leaf miner.  It won't usually affect the fruit but does make the tree look ugly.   Check with the nursery, but I think spraying with Rogor will fix this.  (If you think it's worth the trouble and expense!)


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## nioka (15 June 2008)

Julia said:


> Sounds like the citrus leaf miner.  It won't usually affect the fruit but does make the tree look ugly.   Check with the nursery, but I think spraying with Rogor will fix this.  (If you think it's worth the trouble and expense!)



 I wouldn't suggest Rogor. White oil will fix it or even spray with diluted whole milk. Needs to be repeated after about ten days.


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## roland (15 June 2008)

Such tricky things these plants - maybe it's all the hard rock music my 80 year old mum plays them into the early hours of the morning


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## Julia (15 June 2008)

nioka said:


> I wouldn't suggest Rogor. White oil will fix it or even spray with diluted whole milk. Needs to be repeated after about ten days.



Agree Rogor is pretty heavy duty stuff.  However, my suggestion was based on my father's fantastic fruit trees which always looked beautiful and bore heavy crops each year.  He regularly sprayed them with Rogor and found that the white oil etc was ineffective.

I've had the same experience with trying to get rid of black sooty mould on Gardenias and Ixoras.   Milk, White Oil in repeated applications made not one bit of difference.  Two sprays with Rogor and they are fine.  Ditto grasshoppers which were defoliating the basil.  All the usually suggested remedies just seemed to make the stuff more tasty for them.  A light spray of Rogor and that was the end of them.  Didn't need to redo it.


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## roland (15 June 2008)

Be careful with Rogor:



> * Rogor or dimethoate, is a systemic organophosphate, used for controlling a wide range of sap-sucking and chewing pests. A known nerve poison, a suspected carcinogen, a blood toxin, endocrine toxin, liver, kidney and gastrointestinal toxin and a respiratory toxin in humans.




from: http://www.safersolutions.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=279&Itemid=178


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## kenny (17 June 2008)

hi roland,

Great website. My wife will be thrilled.

Regards,

Kenny


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## CAB SAV (28 August 2008)

Spring has sprung, the chooks are laying


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## Julia (28 August 2008)

Are they seasonal in their laying habits, then?


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## nioka (28 August 2008)

Julia said:


> Are they seasonal in their laying habits, then?




Chooks are naturally in the habit of coming into lay as the daylight time lengthens and going off the lay as the daylight time decreases. That is why commercial producers have the lights on as the daylight decreases to fool the chooks into keeping on laying. That way we get a lower average price for the eggs we buy than would otherwise be the case. It is also the reason why free range eggs are dearer, especially in the autumn and winter months.


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## Duckman#72 (28 August 2008)

Julia said:


> Are they seasonal in their laying habits, then?




Hi Julia

We have Australorps and Shaver Reds and both are great layers. From our experience they don't have a "season" as much. They had been laying very well all winter until about a month ago. 

You may have heard the expression "gone off the lay" - sudden changes in conditions or climate affect our chooks. For example, about a month ago was when we started to experience some big heavy frosts and the daytime temperatures were right down as well.

Conversely large increases in temperature in summer knocks the egg laying around.

We bought 4 ducks recently and I've been battling them in my vege garden. They love my brocolli leaves. I have to admit they have have been a blessing in disguise. They stripped the plants bare (however I had been battling with catepillars) the brocolli has come back stronger than ever - pest free.

As for new plantings once I'm sure the frosts are truely over - I'll plant my tomatoes, golden squash, zuchinni and beans. Currently we have potatos, beetroot, silverbeet, snow peas, rhubarb, radish, cos lettuce and pakchoi under various stages of production. 

Duckman


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## Julia (28 August 2008)

Wow, Duckman, what a great sounding garden.   I'm in awe, especially with everything else you have on your plate at present!  

And thanks for explaining about the feathered creatures.   Don't think they'd last too long here.  I found a dead bird recently.


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## nioka (28 August 2008)

Julia said:


> I found a dead bird recently.




 Julia, if you are still using Rogor you may have even caused it. Spraying with rogor to crops is the story behind "The Silent World'.


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## Speewha (28 August 2008)

Hello, 

Thanks to Roland and nioka for posts re Rogor lethal stuff to man and beast, even if you protect yourself and cover up in protective clothing, the risk of over spray being wind carried and causing harm elsewhere especially if you are on a suburban block is to great. 

Yellow leaves on  some plants and citrus trees can be caused by an iron deficiency , Chelated Iron works wonders sprayed on the leaves directly and watered in around the roots.  Cow poo as mulch with some Gypsum dug in will help break up the clay and help the plant extract the good things that are found in clay soil. 

I have a small block, but manage to grow lots of vegies and salad greens, tomatoes etc, I never use pesticide or herbicide, nothing wrong with the odd worm hole and weeds never did anybody any harm. IMO 

The ABC web site and magazine Gardening Australia are very helpful lots of good tips, with regional variation for our vast land. 

Sorry have rambled on a bit , was very surprised and happy to find this thread on ASF yet another plus !

Regards


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## Julia (28 August 2008)

nioka said:


> Julia, if you are still using Rogor you may have even caused it. Spraying with rogor to crops is the story behind "The Silent World'.



No, Nioka, the death of the bird wasn't due to any chemical.  My allusion to feathered creatures not lasting here was a reference to the extremely territorial nature of my dog who regards birds as the ultimate intruder.
I'm sad to say that she killed the bird (a pigeon).  The scattered feathers on the lawn and her guilty demeanour were a giveaway.

And I don't go round using Rogor with wild abandon, for goodness sake.
I've used it I think once in twelve months after every other more conservative measure failed to stop the grasshoppers from stripping my precious Basil to stalks.


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## nioka (11 September 2008)

Spring has sprung. The plants are growing and a few pleasant days to spend a little time in the garden (between posting on ASF of course).

From the garden this week. The first of the nectarines, peaches & paw paw, and the last of the oranges, mandarins and tangellos. Cabbage, beans, silverbeet, potatoes, carrots, lettuce and the last of the choko from the veg garden. A couple of pineapples and a bunch of bananas. 

Nothing like the taste of the home grown. When the world wearies and life doesn't satisfy there is always the garden.


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## Julia (11 September 2008)

It seems very early for the stone fruit, Nioka.  Are they a tropical variety?
My father used to grow a very sweet tropical peach which didn't seem to mind the warm and humid environment.  
Have you ever grown jaboticaba?  (could be jaboticava)


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## doctorj (8 December 2008)

I've recently inherited a couple of rather sickly (but green) looking little chilli plants.  

At the moment the chilli plants live by a window that gets as much light as its likely to get inside (a couple of hours a day, if its sunny)

Will they survive outside, where they're likely to get a bit more sun, but it frequently will get below 0?  

Lend me your green thumb!


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## roland (8 December 2008)

First time harvest of some carrots over the weekend. We cleared a little patch at mum's place about 4 months ago and sowed directly into the "dirt".

Very satisifying to see the orange bits poke their heads just above ground level.

TIP - make sure the soil is fine and consistant - otherwise you will have carrots in all sorts of deformed shapes - just like ours


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## awg (8 December 2008)

*growing mangoes*

i know this is probably not the right forum for this sort of advice, but..

I have a 10yr old mango tree that flowers well, but sets hardly any fruit.

this year it has 2 mangoes.

small ones bud, but drop off almost straight away.

i think it is a Kensington Pride...the mangoes are very large, have only grown a couple to full size.

I am located in Newcastle NSW, right on the coast.

I have tried fertiliser, fungicide and hand pollination.

the fruit only ever sets on the North-East side of the tree.

i dont water the tree, should I at fruit set time?

any clues or experience appreciated...or Garden forum addresses


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## Happy (8 December 2008)

doctorj said:


> At the moment the chilli plants live by a window that gets as much light as its likely to get inside (a couple of hours a day, if its sunny)
> 
> Will they survive outside, where they're likely to get a bit more sun, but it frequently will get below 0?
> 
> Lend me your green thumb!




Introduction to outside sun you could ease placing pot in part shade with morning sun which seems to be easier on plants or with some kind of protecting artificial shade if planted directly in the garden soil.

As to frost if light frost, I would say chillies will drop some or all of their leaves and burst to life again in spring.

If frost below 5 or 10 degrees I suspect that definitely leaves will go, and some dieback can occur. You can protect branches with some wrapping, plus soil mounded outside wrapping for extra thermal protection, similar to what gardeners do with rose bushes.


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## noirua (8 December 2008)

*Re: growing mangoes*



awg said:


> i know this is probably not the right forum for this sort of advice, but..
> 
> I have a 10yr old mango tree that flowers well, but sets hardly any fruit.
> 
> ...




Try this forum:  http://www.daleysfruit.com.au/forum/mango-tree-not-fruiting/


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## Happy (8 December 2008)

*Re: growing mangoes*



awg said:


> I have a 10yr old mango tree that flowers well, but sets hardly any fruit.
> 
> this year it has 2 mangoes.
> 
> ...





Mango is bit tricky, as it needs moisture available for the roots and fairly dry air.

Freshly set fruit hates to be wet and does not handle well high humidity, which is caused by frequent drizzles or showers even fog or mist. 

Some fruits that were lucky to survive this condition carry black patches on skin.

I don’t think anything can be done, just area’s rainfall pattern seems to be incompatible with the plant requirements.


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## Julia (8 December 2008)

*Re: growing mangoes*



awg said:


> i know this is probably not the right forum for this sort of advice, but..
> 
> I have a 10yr old mango tree that flowers well, but sets hardly any fruit.
> 
> ...



Have you tried liquid potash?   Needs to sprayed over the tree as is absorbed through the foliage.  Fruiting plants need potash to produce fruit.  Probably too late to try it for this year.  Won't it have finished flowering by now?


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## Grinder (8 December 2008)

Love my vegie garden! Basil, coriander, tomatoes, carrots all do well as does my cherry and magoe tree but not my lime. What does it take to get lime? I positioned it in almost full sun and have been feeding it well but still nothing. Any ideas?


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## awg (8 December 2008)

thx for the replies, especially Noirua, good website on mango probs.

pointed out possums are killers, we have heaps of the mongrels.

i will try the various tips on the site

presently have 2 growing mango on tree, flowers just finished.

re type, cant remember if it is bowen or kensington pride, the fruit were huge, about 10" long by 6" round, ripen Feb, anyone know which?


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## Whiskers (8 December 2008)

awg said:


> thx for the replies, especially Noirua, good website on mango probs.
> 
> pointed out possums are killers, we have heaps of the mongrels.
> 
> ...




Hi awg, that's a huge mango. I have seen KP's get that big, especially if you have them growing near a septic drain. 

Btw, Bowen and Kensington Pride (KP) are the same, although there are some sub strains that vary in size and flavour.

Happy is correct, wet, humid weather is the biggest problem for fruit set. The main disease is Anthrecnose, a black marking that starts on the skin and develops into the fruit... similarly Stem End Rot starts from the base of the stem. Commercial growers have to spray frequently with Mancozeb. 

As Julia says Potash (Potassium - Symbol 'K') is also needed in luxury supply to maintain a good fruit set, size and eating quality. Certainly foliar potassium sprays especially with added kelp and or humic acid are best for a quick recovery. You will probably find some of the garden supplies of kelp have added humic acid and also fish.

Sometimes large size can come from excess nitrogen. There will be nothing wrong with them except that by excess N, I mean the balance of the main elements are a bit out of proportion. Typically there is a shortage of Phosphate (P), often measured by the BRIX,  which is also needed for fruit set, eating quality and pest and disease resistance.

Another good site to supplement Noirua's, especially if you're into a bit more technical aspects of the commercial industry, is http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/cps/rde/dpi/hs.xsl/26_7716_ENA_HTML.htm

There are good photo's also which may help identify your variety, even green eating varieties.

I've also had a lousy crop on my tree this year because of the continuous wet weather, because I mainly choose not to spray my garden fruit and veg and also because it's right near the shed guttering which supplies drinking water... so I'll be luck if I get two from my small tree this year.


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## noirua (8 December 2008)

Banana skins contain potassium and can be buried around the Mango tree all year round.


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## roland (8 December 2008)

our next door neighbours used to have lots of beer swilling BBQ's and the Mango tree was just in the right spot so the fellas didn't have to go to the inside loo

they have always had the best crop of Mangos ever ....


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## Whiskers (8 December 2008)

noirua said:


> Banana skins contain potassium and can be buried around the Mango tree all year round.




Yes indeed, and veg scraps contain many other trace elements as well. I never dump vegetable matter, always use it for compost in garden often covered with lawn clippings.



roland said:


> our next door neighbours used to have lots of beer swilling BBQ's and the Mango tree was just in the right spot so the fellas didn't have to go to the inside loo
> 
> they have always had the best crop of Mangos ever ....




Very good roland. 

Need the solid stuff too for the best results, but at least that tree is getting plenty of organic nitrogen and probably a bit of sugar and protein... good microbial food from a bit of spilled and or straight-through beer as well.


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## noirua (9 December 2008)

Whiskers said:


> Very good roland.
> 
> Need the solid stuff too for the best results...



I'm not sure about the solid stuff. I seem to remember some information on the internet that fresh human manure can either ruin the ground or add something nasty to it.
Some Scottish Islanders hads to abandon their Island after doing this over many years.


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## Whiskers (9 December 2008)

noirua said:


> I'm not sure about the solid stuff. I seem to remember some information on the internet that fresh human manure can either ruin the ground or add something nasty to it.
> Some Scottish Islanders hads to abandon their Island after doing this over many years.




That's interesting, noirua.

Might be something to do with the cold climate slowing down the decomposition. 

There are of course many pathagons in human excrement which can be problematic in concentration and unfavourable decomposition conditions.

As an aside, it seems many hormones both natural and synthetic along with other complex 'drugs' are unable to be filtered out and retained in recycled water for domestic consumption. 

But for the most part sunlight is a good sterilising/neutralising agent.


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## Julia (20 December 2008)

I've been nurturing a good crop of passionfruit many of which are just getting the first touch of colour.  Prefer to let them ripen fully on the vine for best flavour.

This morning I've found many of them lying on the ground, some still attached to the vine, but eaten through, some fragments of shell over the ground.
Is this likely to be flying foxes, possums, or rats?  Could rats climb and eat suspended free hanging fruit that's not against a fence?  i.e. do I need to cover the vine (difficult - there's a lot of it) or increase the amount of rat bait I'd already put out.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.  This is my favourite fruit and I'm mightily annoyed to be feeding some animals on it.


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## roland (20 December 2008)

Julia said:


> I've been nurturing a good crop of passionfruit many of which are just getting the first touch of colour.  Prefer to let them ripen fully on the vine for best flavour.
> 
> This morning I've found many of them lying on the ground, some still attached to the vine, but eaten through, some fragments of shell over the ground.
> Is this likely to be flying foxes, possums, or rats?  Could rats climb and eat suspended free hanging fruit that's not against a fence?  i.e. do I need to cover the vine (difficult - there's a lot of it) or increase the amount of rat bait I'd already put out.
> ...




possums!

my mum has a hell of a time with them, last week they took out the only 2 nectrines we have been able to produce in 2 years, the grape vine can't get going since they chew any new growth

the passion fruit has been spared - she had a stocking foot with moth balls hanging near the fruit - seems to have put them off


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## Uncle Barry (20 December 2008)

Good evening Julia.
Your problem is flying fox.

The best way to get rid of them the flying fox, is to eat them.

Kind regards,
UB


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## Garpal Gumnut (20 December 2008)

Uncle Barry said:


> Good evening Julia.
> Your problem is flying fox.
> 
> The best way to get rid of them the flying fox, is to eat them.
> ...





If you are not up to shooting flying foxes (its illegal) loud music will get rid of them.

I've been reliably informed that John Denver's dreadful repertoire is particularly effective.

Be careful to do a shock and awe on them as they carry rabies, a convenient fact suppressed by the greenies.

gg

gg


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## Julia (20 December 2008)

roland said:


> possums!
> 
> my mum has a hell of a time with them, last week they took out the only 2 nectrines we have been able to produce in 2 years, the grape vine can't get going since they chew any new growth
> 
> the passion fruit has been spared - she had a stocking foot with moth balls hanging near the fruit - seems to have put them off



Thanks, Roland.   I'll try the mothballs.  I didn't think there were any of these ghastly creatures here until my neighbour spotted one a few nights ago.

I can't believe Australians like these nuisance pests and even make pets of them.  In NZ they're the next worst pest to rabbits, only good for their fur.


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## Julia (20 December 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> If you are not up to shooting flying foxes (its illegal) loud music will get rid of them.
> 
> I've been reliably informed that John Denver's dreadful repertoire is particularly effective.
> 
> ...



Shooting anything is out of the question.  I hate guns.
GG, I don't believe it's flying foxes as they are always around and have never had a go at the passionfruit before.  At present there are heaps of mangoes on trees everywhere and these usually keep the foxes occupied.

Re the music:  it might get rid of the foxes but would probably also get rid of my neighbours.  

Maybe leave the dog outside at night?   She doesn't permit any cats and no other avian species than pigeons.


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## Garpal Gumnut (20 December 2008)

Julia said:


> Shooting anything is out of the question.  I hate guns.
> GG, I don't believe it's flying foxes as they are always around and have never had a go at the passionfruit before.  At present there are heaps of mangoes on trees everywhere and these usually keep the foxes occupied.
> 
> Re the music:  it might get rid of the foxes but would probably also get rid of my neighbours.
> ...




Agree Julia.

John Denver even at low volume might encourage some to lick the luger.

gg


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## CoffeeKing (21 December 2008)

Julia said:


> I've been nurturing a good crop of passionfruit many of which are just getting the first touch of colour.  Prefer to let them ripen fully on the vine for best flavour.
> 
> This morning I've found many of them lying on the ground, some still attached to the vine, but eaten through, some fragments of shell over the ground.
> Is this likely to be flying foxes, possums, or rats?  Could rats climb and eat suspended free hanging fruit that's not against a fence?  i.e. do I need to cover the vine (difficult - there's a lot of it) or increase the amount of rat bait I'd already put out.
> ...




I got an idea... *Get a cat trap *


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## CoffeeKing (21 December 2008)

How long does it take to grow Springs onions,
Love the things, would like to try my own


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## Whiskers (21 December 2008)

CoffeeKing said:


> I got an idea... *Get a cat trap *




Just a big cat will do. 

Damn possums climb up the mesh on my back door security screen making a hell of a racket, make a mess of my banana trees which are at the back door, not to mention an odd papaya, mango even ripe pineapple.

There's a lot of thick bush at the back of my place and despite the cats getting quite a few small ones, probably mistaking them for rats and mice  of which there is also no shortage of in the bush, I still get regular marooding adult possums around the place. Ocassionally an adult will meet it's fate.


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## Whiskers (21 December 2008)

CoffeeKing said:


> How long does it take to grow Springs onions,
> Love the things, would like to try my own




Six to eight weeks in summer, a couple more in colder months, but really you can start pulling them as early as you like and they will just grow a bit bigger left in the ground until they go to flower.


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## Julia (22 December 2008)

CoffeeKing said:


> I got an idea... *Get a cat trap *



That's a good idea.  Where did you get yours?  Do you put some food in it to entice the creature?


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## CoffeeKing (23 December 2008)

Julia said:


> That's a good idea.  Where did you get yours?  Do you put some food in it to entice the creature?




Is that just an avatar or do you have that type of dog?
Surely that beast wouldn't let them in...

For a trap try the local council, or a friend might have one...
In Newcastle I got a possum trap from Kennards Hire
Use the fruit they eat as bait (your passionfruit)
Be prepared for a noisy night if you get one early


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## Julia (23 December 2008)

CoffeeKing said:


> Is that just an avatar or do you have that type of dog?
> Surely that beast wouldn't let them in...
> 
> For a trap try the local council, or a friend might have one...
> ...



I do have a German Shepherd, and yes, she would quickly despatch any intruder.  But she sleeps inside at night.  I suggested to her that she instead take up possum duty but she appeared less than keen to spend the night outside.

I've taken up Roland's suggestion of hanging the mothballs amongst the vine (goodness, they stink!), and have put out more rat bait.  The latter has been taken and no more passionfruit have been attacked, so perhaps it was rats.


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## Garpal Gumnut (23 December 2008)

Julia said:


> I do have a German Shepherd, and yes, she would quickly despatch any intruder.  But she sleeps inside at night.  I suggested to her that she instead take up possum duty but she appeared less than keen to spend the night outside.
> 
> I've taken up Roland's suggestion of hanging the mothballs amongst the vine (goodness, they stink!), and have put out more rat bait.  The latter has been taken and no more passionfruit have been attacked, so perhaps it was rats.




Here in Townsville we have been attacked by so many bugs that most gardens are looking pretty pathetic. It happened just after planting in late winter spring.

Oh to have such a simple answer as killing rats, I have some good traps, and the roses love them.

gg


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## jonojpsg (24 December 2008)

Just gotta get on an brag about how beautiful the garden looks down here in Hobart 

Picking bucketloads of raspberries, cherries, strawberries, blueberries - yummmm

Also got great results from my early plantings of zuccini, corn, beans.

Did have a big wind the other day though that split my three year old nectarine tree fair down the middle of the main trunk   ANyone got any tips about whether it is salvageable?  I have tied the two main verticals together higher up which is holding it together but not sure about whether i can do anything to seal the trunk back up again?

Have a great Christmas all


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## prawn_86 (24 December 2008)

Jono,

my old man grows stone fruit (and other fruit and veg) for a living, and there is nothing that can be used to seal the nectarine back togther as far as im aware.

What you have done is about right, the tree might heal itself, it might not. Your other option would be to get rid of one half, and keep the strongest half, and then prune it into shape by encouraging groth limbs back.


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## Julia (24 December 2008)

jonojpsg said:


> Just gotta get on an brag about how beautiful the garden looks down here in Hobart
> 
> Picking bucketloads of raspberries, cherries, strawberries, blueberries - yummmm
> 
> Also got great results from my early plantings of zuccini, corn, beans.



I feel very envious of all this, jono.   That's the very real advantage of a cold climate - that you do get the wonderful produce in Spring and Summer, unaffected by pests and diseases.
Raspberries up here in Qld are about $7 for a 250g punnet.


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## awg (24 December 2008)

Julia said:


> I've been nurturing a good crop of passionfruit many of which are just getting the first touch of colour.  Prefer to let them ripen fully on the vine for best flavour.
> 
> This morning I've found many of them lying on the ground, some still attached to the vine, but eaten through, some fragments of shell over the ground.
> Is this likely to be flying foxes, possums, or rats?  Could rats climb and eat suspended free hanging fruit that's not against a fence?  i.e. do I need to cover the vine (difficult - there's a lot of it) or increase the amount of rat bait I'd already put out.
> ...






that sort of damage sounds like possums to me, they do the same thing to my oranges


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## Uncle Barry (24 December 2008)

Good afternoon,
"If you are not up to shooting flying foxes (its illegal)"


If you eat flying foxes, its always far better eat them after they have been 'recycled'

Could you even dream of the wings flying around while your trying to put them in a pot.

ps, They dress just like you would a rabbit.

Kind regards,
UB


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## Julia (24 December 2008)

awg said:


> that sort of damage sounds like possums to me, they do the same thing to my oranges



Have you seen the possums, awg?   I'd thought it would have been these nasty creatures, but since then have put several lots of rat bait out, it has all been taken and there has been no further attack on the remaining passionfruit.


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## Garpal Gumnut (24 December 2008)

Julia said:


> Have you seen the possums, awg?   I'd thought it would have been these nasty creatures, but since then have put several lots of rat bait out, it has all been taken and there has been no further attack on the remaining passionfruit.




Rat bait kills possums in large numbers.

Much kinder ways of getting rid of them.

gg


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## Julia (24 December 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Rat bait kills possums in large numbers.
> 
> Much kinder ways of getting rid of them.
> 
> gg



gg when it comes to a competition between my passionfruit and a total pest like possums, kindness just doesn't stand a chance.


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## Garpal Gumnut (24 December 2008)

Julia said:


> gg when it comes to a competition between my passionfruit and a total pest like possums, kindness just doesn't stand a chance.




I do like passionfruit , too few of them growing this year.

Too many possums, I've got a mob reproducing in my garage rollerdoor.

I reckon they all have some use in the greater concept of Garpalgarden so haven't used the .22 on them........yet 

We've had some dreadful pests this year so possums are the least of my worry.

I believe possums are protected by public servants who work 35 hrs per week. A lot of hours left in a week.

gg


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## classer (26 December 2008)

OK I know its not a vegetable but can I successfully grow figs in Townsville?


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## jackson8 (26 December 2008)

classer said:


> OK I know its not a vegetable but can I successfully grow figs in Townsville?




from my understanding fig trees are from a Mediterranean climate 
they need a long hot dry summer to produce fruit successfully

the humidity in Townsville may not be conducive to their fruit growing healthily


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## Whiskers (28 December 2008)

classer said:


> OK I know its not a vegetable but can I successfully grow figs in Townsville?




I would agree with jackson that the heat and humidity may be a problem, but you can get around that a bit by the way you design your garden, well whole block actually. 

I'm a firm beliver of Property Management Planning. So if you can design an area that is shaded a bit, or can be by planting something faster growing like Carpenteria or foxtail palms, while leaving the area well ventelated, a fig should grow and fruit.

I've seen plenty of them growing a bit futher south mainly from Wide Bay down to the border. There was an old tree in a bit of a mixed orchard on the farm when I was a kid and it gave plenty of beautiful purple fruit.

The trick will be to find a variety that is most tollerant to your conditions.


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## Julia (28 December 2008)

Whiskers said:


> I've seen plenty of them growing a bit futher south mainly from Wide Bay down to the border. There was an old tree in a bit of a mixed orchard on the farm when I was a kid and it gave plenty of beautiful purple fruit.



I can endorse that.  My father had a very productive fig tree in Wide Bay.
Healso grew citrus, custard apple, persimmon, jaboticaba, mango, passionfruit,
melon.


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## roland (14 December 2009)

OK, so now we are 9 months out of a flat with some dirt to plant stuff and we haven't had to buy "greens" for 3 months now.

We had enough brocoli to have one full head every second evening for 2 months - what a success, easy to grow and such a buzz to knock off a whole head of brocoli with a big kitchen knife 2 minutes before steaming or stir frying.

Cauliflower - disaster .... whatever the possums left turned into a yellowey mess 

Baby Spinach, great stuff, grows so quick and we have been pulling off leaves for 2 months now, and have learnt to gow a few every couple of weeks for a constant supply.

Lettuce -  we now have around 6 varieties that we harvest every couple of nights.

Potatoes - planted around 10 seed potatoes and now have enough for 4 or 5 months, extremely satisfying digging them up - should get 'round to planting more.

Strawberries - more than you can eat - built an enclosure to keep the birds away.

Rasberries, OK, well had a few - maybe next year better

Chillies - enough to last forever it seems, have around 20 plants .... love chillies!

Asparagus - mmmm, just the fern heads so far, yet to see something edible

Chinese Brocoli - these just don't seem to get anywhere, they grow OK, but too skinny and flower too quick ... need some more study

Corn - have some great looking crops, just waiting for the silks to turn brown

Lemongrass - enough to last forever!

Corriander - had a huge crop, now all turned to seed, but haven't had to buy corriander for 6 months. Just waiting on a new batch.

Parsley - did well for 5 months, now too woody and one to seed

Onions, wow, talk about slow to grow, had a nice little crop, very sweet and a little small - trying again.

Spring Onions - they just grow and grow - very cool.

Capsicums - still waiting, about the size of marbles right now. We have around 10 plants.

Ginger - just strating to sprout

Garlic - great success, just used some cloves from the supermarket, had around 20 plants, each clove giving us a whole garlic from each ... amzing what fresh garlic tastes like.

Passionfruit - my 2 x vines are 4 years old now, in a pot but can't get to flower 

Apples - 2 x trees (in pots) flowered once but no fruit 

Grapes - 2 x vines, in the ground now, still getting over the possum attacks - now netted and growing much better.

Apricot Tree - looks great, lots of leaves but no flowers.

Cucumbers - growing well, have around 60 baby cucmbers just need another 2 weeks.

Rock Melon - around 6 leaves now, probable still a couple of months awat

WaterMelon - see above (rock melon) same....

Tomatoes - you would not believe how many tomato plants we have, we even scrounged around the neighbourhood on clean up day for pots, they are on the balcony, planted in every available spot in the garden, we even have them hanging upside down in 2 liter coke bottles - last count 180 plants, most with fruit - have harvested some of the cherry tomatoes, but still waiting for the larger ones to mature.

Oranges - we got arond 80 oranges last March, should get a little extra next March.

Lemons - stupid thing, all the little lemons just fall off - maybe too much watering

Oragano, Sage, Thyme, Rosemary - still growing - maybe another 6 weeks.

There's a few other odds and sods of edibles, but you are probably bored already..


Just as well the backyard is 90 per cent pavers and a pool, could you imagine what else I could have growing ..... 

Oh, we do have non edibles too, mabe another 100 plants and trees and a good collection of bonzais and succulents!

Grow your own stuff, it's fun


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## imajica (15 December 2009)

what varieties of chilli are you growing roland?

at the moment I've got these growing (although no fruit yet)

Jalapeno
Bhut Jolokia
Hot Lemon
Cayenne
Numex Twilight


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## prawn_86 (15 December 2009)

We live in a flat, and are moving to a different one, but we have a few basic pots of herbs and stuff.

This winter we have grown:
Chives
Spring Onions/Shallots
Basil
Carrots
Leeks
Parsley
Beans
Peas

The beans and the peas were to most annoying, as evertime they were nearly ready, we had to go away and our neighbour forgot to water them 

We do get herbs for our meals virtually every nights, and the odd bit of other stuff, nothing that really saves us money, but it is fun and enjoyable watching things grow.


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## roland (15 December 2009)

imajica said:


> what varieties of chilli are you growing roland?
> 
> at the moment I've got these growing (although no fruit yet)
> 
> ...




I have Jalapeno, Thai Birdseye, Cayenne and a couple of varieties that I have forgotten the names of  - I purchased seeds online from a guy that had just about every variety there is.

Chillis are great to grow, easy to germinate, fast growing and will produce with just 4 or 5 leaves

The one in the picture is over 5 years old, and I thought I had killed it a few times now.


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## Fishbulb (15 December 2009)

At the moment we're growing - 

Zucchini
Green and Red Capsicum
Four varieties of Lettuce
Onions
Celery
Tomatoes
Beetroot

Assorted herbs; Chives, Tarragon, Oregano, Rosemary, Marjoram, flat leaf Parsley, Mint (almost a weed this stuff), and a real healthy bay tree.

And the most luscious Straberries ever. If all you've ever had is store bought Strawberries, then the difference between those and what you can grow at home is beyond describing. 

I agree with the original post. Nothing beats it.


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## Julia (15 December 2009)

Roland, that's a fabulous lot of home grown products.  Good for you.  You must be in a southern state if you can get raspberries to grow?

Re the passionfruit, they're fairly shallow, wide rooting plants and some varieties don't do well in some climates.  e.g. up in Qld here I can grow really well the Panama Red and Panama Yellow but struggle with the black Nellie Kelly which is apparently better in a cooler environment.

New vines do take a while to flower in my experience and often the first dozen of so flowers won't set fruit.  But eventually they do.  To hurry it along you might try some liquid potash just sprayed or poured from a watering can over the whole plant (not just the roots - it's absorbed through the leaves).  Don't water too much.  I've killed some with over attention.  The most productive I've seen have been ignored.

I've never seen any grown in a pot but don't suppose there's any reason they can't be successful.


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## roland (16 December 2009)

Found a bug in your garden?

Check out this guide: http://bugguide.net/node/view/60

It's a little American centric, but a great resource. Actually I was hunting around for pictures of what I thought were wasps that I came across near my front tap an d stumbled across the above URL


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## Zird (16 December 2009)

Please dont tell the cops but I have got 2 tobacco plants growing very well  in my vegetable patch. Even though it is for personal use it is a criminal act. I have not dried the leaf yet let alone rolled one.  Smoking is very  bad news and  companies that make and sell the stuff are just plain old drug pushers.  Users should be able to grow a plant or two.


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## Happy (17 December 2009)

I put few tomato plants this year despite that used to have a lot of heartbreak because of fruit fly and white butterfly caterpillars years back. 
Also some Aussie spinach, which when young is on par with delicate English spinach.

Parsley this year, which was always weed like, must have gone on strike or something. I spread a handful of the seeds around, but they are hard to start and can take up to 28 days to germinate. Got some dunked in boiling water to speed up germination, if I killed them there are ones without 'heat treatment' so no worries.

The same fate year back happened to my chilli plants, all died on me, had to go on dried pods for the whole year, got few tiny ones in fruit this year already.

It is good mind escape after dose of intenet too.


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## DocK (17 December 2009)

Husband cries every time there is a paw-paw nearly ripe, only to be snatched by either possums or fruit-bats?  Had a plentiful supply of lemons, mandarins and lemonades from our fruit trees - but have had to severly prune them as infected with gall wasp I think.  We're not the best gardeners - good intentions, but then forget to spray, water etc.  My best success is lettuce grown in pots outside kitchen window and herbs in pots on windowsill - can't forget them as I see them every time I'm at the kitchen sink (which seems to be far too often!), and I pick a few leaves here and there every day or so.

We had a lovely passionfruit vine growing for years, but all the fruit was on the neighbours side of the fence as we obviously forgot to factor in sun direction when we planted it   Had a nice trade going with the neighbour for a while there though, he'd supply us with tomatos when he delivered a few of "our" passionfruit.


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## Julia (17 December 2009)

Happy said:


> Parsley this year, which was always weed like, must have gone on strike or something. I spread a handful of the seeds around, but they are hard to start and can take up to 28 days to germinate. Got some dunked in boiling water to speed up germination, if I killed them there are ones without 'heat treatment' so no worries.



Happy I'm reassured to hear about your parsley.  In the past I've had flourishing plants, enough to give away great bunches of it.  But in the last couple of months I've planted three lots of seedlings, most of which have died and the few that haven't are looking miserable, despite fertiliser and plenty of water.  Is it possible that parsley doesn't like warm temperatures?

My really good stuff was during the Qld winter.  

Also had some Sage plants that died, right next to some that are doing OK.
Basil is very good.

Sometimes I think the seedlings are forced into rapid growth by the nurseries and then when they're planted out, they find it all too hard.


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## roland (17 December 2009)

The most important thing I've learnt is that terracotta pots suck - they dry out so quick that unless you water 3 or 4 times a day you are bound to fail keeping anything but a cactus alive.

My best pots now are 2 gallon plastic buckets we have been buying from Bunnings at $0.89 a pop. Sort of an odd feeling drilling holes in perfectly good buckets, but a similar size plastic pot is nearly $10.00.

If it's gotta be terracotta, or you have a lot of them, then seal or paint them, but think about it - a bucket is great - it's even got a handle which makes moving them around a breeze.

Second most important thing - mulch, if you mulch the top of your pots you will find that they don't dry out, even on the hottest of days. In fact I find I am still getting used to mulching and find I tend to overwater - being used to non mulched terracotta


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## milothedog (17 December 2009)

Quite possibly Julia, if seedlings are not hardened off properly (exposed to enough sun, strong light) they can struggle when planted out.  It is worth being careful with fertiliser with the new roots of seedlings.  (testing new mobile toy here, so excuse if repeating past info)


----------



## DocK (18 December 2009)

I'm quite a fan of water crystals for pots.  Consisently warm where I am so pots drying out can be an issue.  Agree about the terracotta - I like large concrete pots with drainage hole - heavy to move though!


----------



## Mofra (18 December 2009)

Happy said:


> The same fate year back happened to my chilli plants, all died on me, had to go on dried pods for the whole year, got few tiny ones in fruit this year already.



For some reason, chilli is the one thing that doesn't grow well for me. 
Have tomatoes, snow peas, lettuce, zucchini, basil and leeks all going great (actually the zucchini is going mental) but the chilli plant is growing slowly, and last year was the same.


----------



## moXJO (18 December 2009)

I have a 4x2 meter plot in the backyard that has seen a few seasons of consistent use. I put a bunch of snow peas in a few months back and they all turned yellow and died. Other plants have very slow growth. So I have been resting the patch for a bit now. Any tips on what to use to replenish the nutrients (did use cow manure but only had a short term effect).


----------



## Julia (18 December 2009)

moXJO said:


> I have a 4x2 meter plot in the backyard that has seen a few seasons of consistent use. I put a bunch of snow peas in a few months back and they all turned yellow and died. Other plants have very slow growth. So I have been resting the patch for a bit now. Any tips on what to use to replenish the nutrients (did use cow manure but only had a short term effect).




moXJO, I use rotted down grass clippings combined with blood & bone, plus Searle's potting mix.  Used to use cow, chook manure but, like you, I found it had minimal and quite short effect.  The Searle's potting mix gives the bed good drainage, has what seems to be a quality fertiliser plus wetting agent.  I've used this mostly in the flower beds and have had great results.  Also use seaweed tonic type fertiliser poured over new plantings, then later Thrive.

Milo, good point about the fertiliser with young seedlings.  I didn't add this until they'd been in a few weeks and were looking very sad.


----------



## Fishbulb (18 December 2009)

moXJO said:


> I have a 4x2 meter plot in the backyard that has seen a few seasons of consistent use. I put a bunch of snow peas in a few months back and they all turned yellow and died. Other plants have very slow growth. So I have been resting the patch for a bit now. Any tips on what to use to replenish the nutrients (did use cow manure but only had a short term effect).




Might be a good idea to test the soil for PH levels. If it's out of balance, no amount of fertiliser will help. You will need to rectify the soil using the appropriate product.


----------



## moXJO (18 December 2009)

Julia said:


> moXJO, I use rotted down grass clippings combined with blood & bone, plus Searle's potting mix.  Used to use cow, chook manure but, like you, I found it had minimal and quite short effect.  The Searle's potting mix gives the bed good drainage, has what seems to be a quality fertiliser plus wetting agent.  I've used this mostly in the flower beds and have had great results.  Also use seaweed tonic type fertiliser poured over new plantings, then later Thrive.




Blood and bone might be the missing factor.Mainly avoided it due to the stink factor. Will take a look at searle's as well, thanks for the tips Julia. 



Fishbulb said:


> Might be a good idea to test the soil for PH levels. If it's out of balance, no amount of fertiliser will help. You will need to rectify the soil using the appropriate product.




Yes, checked this but thanks for a reminder. Better go check again just in case. As I have managed to produce a fair bit out of a small garden space.


----------



## nunthewiser (18 December 2009)

Lots and lots of bewtiful chillies/peppers......... red ones , green ones , yellow ones , big ones small ones ............... Add em all 

Add some garlic and a lemon tree 

Plant a few onions

Add one young goat 

Nirvana


----------



## Zird (18 December 2009)

Three fantastic natural ingredients for vegetables - Seasol (liquid seaweed) - great for transplanting and promoting root growth (ie carrots) but good for all things at all times and regularly. Charlie Carp - this is amazing stuff made from liquidised European carp that are destroying our inland rivers. Lime or dolomite corrects the acidity from organic matter and fertilizers.  Some vegetables do not like lime so consult a booklet like *Yates Gardening guide* - has absolutley everything you need to know/available at nurseries.

Also sawdust/horse manure collected from stables makes a great mulch or dug into the soil. I use  it by the ute load. Mulch is the most important thing apart from water in the summer (and winter) even when growing from a pot.

Many of the recent difficulties of growing vegetables/seedlings is from the drought/dry weather.  Hand tap watering does not compare to rain water. Tap watering is rarely deep enough and contains traces of chlorine etc to kill bugs - plants dont like it either.

Hope this is of assistance. Zird is a qualified horticulturalist as well as other things.


----------



## Happy (18 December 2009)

Julia said:


> ...  But in the last couple of months I've planted three lots of seedlings, most of which have died and the few that haven't are looking miserable, despite fertiliser and plenty of water.  Is it possible that parsley doesn't like warm temperatures?
> 
> My really good stuff was during the Qld winter.




I noticed that parsley and even more dill hate being transplanted.
All my stuff I let go to seed and most of the time parsley self sows rest I store just in case (good I do that as I said this year was total collapse of the routine.)

My parsley is best in winter too and in summer parsley that hardly gets any sun is tenderer than one growing in full sun.




Julia said:


> Basil is very good.




My Basil is 95% summer crop, parts of some plants that are next to wall that gets sun in winter survive, they look very sorry and I keep them just as respect for plants will to live.
They usually set to seeds as soon as they put few leaves on. 


Included picture of my early cropping chili and survier basil, (will have to work on focus in the future not to mention year should be 2009 not 2008)


----------



## Julia (18 December 2009)

Happy said:


> I noticed that parsley and even more dill hate being transplanted.
> All my stuff I let go to seed and most of the time parsley self sows rest I store just in case (good I do that as I said this year was total collapse of the routine.)
> 
> My parsley is best in winter too and in summer parsley that hardly gets any sun is tenderer than one growing in full sun.



I see you're in NSW, Happy, so if your parsley is best in your winter, I guess the summer heat up here in Qld is maybe why my parsley is struggling.

I've had no trouble with transplanting parsley and dill, better still basil which seems very hardy, in winter, just in the last month or two.

They're healthy looking plants, Happy.  I have some basil that I keep chopping back, has been there for a couple of years now, and it keeps coming back with new young growth.  It gets bitter when the plant is older.

Zird, thanks for your comments.   I'd forgotten about the chlorinated water.
I've just switched the watering system over to the tank water so hopefully it might improve the languishing parsley.


----------



## moXJO (19 December 2009)

Zird said:


> Also sawdust/horse manure collected from stables .
> 
> .




My friend got some from a race horse stable and all his plants died (roses, veges). Apparently it’s full of all the stuff they feed and inject into the horses.


----------



## Happy (19 December 2009)

Tried again today, date OK, but pictures could be better.
Will probably give up as don't want to fill up whole garden post with my bad pictures


----------



## Zird (20 December 2009)

I have used probably 50 to 80  loads of horse stable manure over the years and never had a problem only excellent results. I often  use it as a mulch on clients ornamental gardens with excellent results. So not sure why it would kill all your friends plants. 
Maybe if it is heaped up to thickly around base plants could cause a problem but this is the case for all mulches or if there is say 95 % fresh manure in the mix could burn plants especially if not watered in after applying as mulch.


----------



## Ato (21 December 2009)

How much direct sun do veges need? I'm going to begin trying to grow some veges soon. I have a small area that doesnt get much direct sun in the winter months though. It's rather bright, but just not direct. It may not make much difference for the winter though, because I cant really do much but tend to the soil? The winters where I live in Japan are pretty damned cold.


----------



## prawn_86 (21 December 2009)

Ato said:


> How much direct sun do veges need?




Depends on the plant, but generally the more the better (providing its not 40 degrees!). My old man used to grow vegies for a living and they were always grown in full sunlight. You can prob get away with 5+ hours a day but they may not grow as quick/well


----------



## Airfireman (21 December 2009)

Has anyone tried the Topsy Turvy Planter!!!!!!! 

When it comes to growing vegies i was trained by the Dark side so its a slow painful death for my plants!!!!!!!

Tim


----------



## roland (21 December 2009)

Airfireman said:


> Has anyone tried the Topsy Turvy Planter!!!!!!!
> 
> When it comes to growing vegies i was trained by the Dark side so its a slow painful death for my plants!!!!!!!
> 
> Tim




I've used upside down 2 litre coke bottles, rather than tossing them away - just chop off the bottom. I currently have around 160 tomato plants and I have them everywhere. The ones that are the least successful are the ones planted upside down.

My guess is that the more active parts of the roots would be the finer ones which still grow towards the open end of the coke bottle - with watering the nutrients drain away from the roots. Also this area is the first to dry out. I guess more dirt would be in order if I were to try again.

Piccy enclosed for your viewing pleasure


----------



## Airfireman (21 December 2009)

Good idea Roland, Interesting to note that your tomato plants have grown upwards towards the sun, whereas the advertised topsy tury have grown down???
Maybe the weight of the plant pulls it down???

Tim


----------



## roland (21 December 2009)

Airfireman said:


> Good idea Roland, Interesting to note that your tomato plants have grown upwards towards the sun, whereas the advertised topsy tury have grown down???
> Maybe the weight of the plant pulls it down???
> 
> Tim




I actually wouldn't be surprised that the marketing material contains plants that were grown quite differently to the final placement in the Topsy Turvy. I have 3 different varieties including a smaller Tom Thumb Tomato and they all curl towards the sun.


----------



## Airfireman (21 December 2009)

Topsy Turvy sells GM plants !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Happy (22 December 2009)

roland said:


> ...they all curl towards the sun.




They all do, so far I did not have plant that would grow running away from the Sun-light.


----------



## roland (22 December 2009)

Happy said:


> They all do, so far I did not have plant that would grow running away from the Sun-light.





Actually there are some plants that grow away from light, its called apheliotropism.

Charles Darwin wrote some stuff on this in 1880 : http://darwin-online.org.uk/content/search-results?freetext=apheliotropism


----------



## Happy (22 December 2009)

Apheliotropism is mentioned to be rare


----------



## roland (22 December 2009)

Happy said:


> Apheliotropism is mentioned to be rare




good thing it's rare - eh!


----------



## roland (8 February 2010)

Indian Myna - more of a pest than I thought:



> The Indian Myna has been rated by the World Conservation Union as one of the world’s 100 most invasive species. It has been rated an Extreme Threat in Australia and won the dubious distinction of receiving the Pest of Australia award in the Wild Watch Quest for Pests 2005. It beat the cane toad and feral cat to get this award!




Info here: http://www.indianmynaaction.org.au/

I have a heap of these little ba@#!*ds that keep damaging things in my garden and take dips in my swimming pool.

It's been nick-named the flying cane toad.

Anyone else have problem Myna's in their yard?


----------



## Buckfont (8 February 2010)

Rowland, haven`t had any problems Indian Mynas native Mynas can get to strawbs and tomatoes here on the Central Coast NSW.

My major concerns are with bush turkeys and the dreaded Possum. 

Have sprinkled hot chilli powder, cayenne powder, Poss Off to no avail. Thinking of going down the Wasabi trail, and if that doesn`t work it may be the electric 
fence or the AK47.

Anyone have any solutions?


----------



## awg (8 February 2010)

roland said:


> Indian Myna - more of a pest than I thought:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I have a problem with them, which is severely exacerbated atm, by the profuse red-flowering trees I have.

They like eating them.

For the last week or so, there has been a non-stop racket outside my window.

I went to find the cause, and what it is are Rainbow Lorikeets, which have been attracted by the red flowers, are in conflict with the mynas.

My "Field Guide to Australian Birds" describes the call of the Rainbow Lorikeet as "continuous screeching"

I can testify it is an apt description, but they shut up if the mynas are not there.

The problem is the mynas are territorial and stay.

They all shut up while i gave them a very serious looking at...it will be hose up the clacker time if they dont pipe down.

goddam possums ate every mango and peach, plus they sound like bears on my garage roof.

I would catch them, except my mate who is an environmental consultant, working on a possum project atm, told me caught and released ones usually die a pitiful death


----------



## Buckfont (8 February 2010)

awg,

do you have the machine guns out yet ? Poss are imposs.


----------



## nioka (8 February 2010)

awg said:


> I would catch them, except my mate who is an environmental consultant, working on a possum project atm, told me caught and released ones usually die a pitiful death




That information means that it better to shoot the b#^*#!* than catch and release. I knew I was doing the right thing all the time.


----------



## Julia (8 February 2010)

I agree with Buckfont.  Don't get sentimental about possums.  They are an absolute scourge.  Just like the damn disease ridden flying foxes.

However much I hate them (being a Kiwi might have something to do with this where they are the country's no. 1 pest), I can't bear seeing any creature cruelly treated.

Shoot them if you can and if you're a decent shot.


----------



## Whiskers (8 February 2010)

Julia said:


> I agree with Buckfont.  Don't get sentimental about possums.  They are an absolute scourge.  Just like the damn disease ridden flying foxes.
> 
> However much I hate them (being a Kiwi might have something to do with this where they are the country's no. 1 pest), I can't bear seeing any creature cruelly treated.
> 
> Shoot them if you can and if you're a decent shot.




Me too.

The damn things can multiply and become almost as big a pest as mice and rabbits where they can scrounge on plentiful food sources such as in
gardens or crops.

Fortunately for me, I got my cats to keep the rat and mice problem from the neighbouring bushland under control, (I got tired of laying poison baits) but they don't discriminate and have a field day when the young possoms start scrounging around the house and scrambling up the screen doors and roof.


----------



## Bolle (8 February 2010)

Possums are like rats.  I'm generally an animal lover, but if i could, i would shoot a possum.  But not before I'd taken out a few minah birds - i don't have possum problems here, thankfully, but the minahs drive me INSANE digging everythign up, throwing everything about the place, making that awful noise they make... eating all the tomatoes and strawberries just as they become ripe.  

I actually took the bell off my cat's collar in the hope that she would kill a few, but she hasn't.  More's the pity.  Is a gun licence the next logical step?


----------



## jbocker (17 October 2010)

roland said:


> Corriander - had a huge crop, now all turned to seed, but haven't had to buy corriander for 6 months. Just waiting on a new batch.





I see Rolands reference to corriander, I grew some from a punnet, eventually went to seed which I collected. Threw some into the garden (a while later) but nothing grew. 
Any tips?


----------



## Julia (17 October 2010)

jb , I hate coriander so don't know anything about growing it, but with other herbs, especially basil, I've found the best results come from allowing the plants to go to seed, just dropping that seed directly onto the ground, rather than collecting it and planting later.

When a seed head looks dry, if you just gently rub it between your fingers and let it fall, water very very lightly, you should be rewarded a while later with little new seedlings.  It's a lot simpler than doing the whole collection/replanting thing.


----------



## McCoy Pauley (17 October 2010)

My wife and I have set up a vegetable patch in our backyard in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne.  The pigeons are going nuts digging up the seeds from the patch and it's reducing our crop quite significantly.  We've tried to stake and rope off the patch, but that hasn't really detered the pigeons, so we tied balloons with faces to the twine.  However, that still hasn't really worked.

Short of shooting the rat-birds, anyone else have any bright ideas we could implement?


----------



## robusta (17 October 2010)

McCoy Pauley said:


> My wife and I have set up a vegetable patch in our backyard in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne.  The pigeons are going nuts digging up the seeds from the patch and it's reducing our crop quite significantly.  We've tried to stake and rope off the patch, but that hasn't really detered the pigeons, so we tied balloons with faces to the twine.  However, that still hasn't really worked.
> 
> Short of shooting the rat-birds, anyone else have any bright ideas we could implement?




Try old cd's hanging from string the movement / reflection often keeps them away or a bit otherwise shoot the rat-birds


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## roland (17 October 2010)

robusta said:


> Try old cd's hanging from string the movement / reflection often keeps them away or a bit otherwise shoot the rat-birds




I made a slingshot and after a week or so I now have no more bird problems


----------



## Whiskers (18 October 2010)

jbocker said:


> I see Rolands reference to corriander, I grew some from a punnet, eventually went to seed which I collected. Threw some into the garden (a while later) but nothing grew.
> Any tips?




I've never grown corriander, but I have a "Plant Breeder" qualification for one particular crop, but the fundamentals are the same across all seed producing crops.

The first thing that defines the quality and viability of seed is the nutritional health of the host plant. Low nutrition = less viable seed. 

Secondly, many have some form of germination inhibiter around the seed to protect it until the right circumstances for germination occur. Often its a fluid encapsulated in a sack or some form of shell or husk. This is cleaned/washed off for commercial seed production and storage. But if you plant the fresh seed straight away or even just let it dry on a plate or paper towel in the kitchen for a few days first, it will still grow fine.

The seed moisture content is vital in determining it's viability and shelf life. It it is dried out too much it dies. A general rule of thumb is dry in the shade to avoid cooking in the suns heat, stirring ocassionally until they stop sticking together. If too wet they will grow fungus and die when stored.

Storage life varies widely with varities and preparation. Once properly grown and prepared, seed is usually placed in an airtight bag or container and optimium storage is achieved in a stable cool, dark enviornment, often a fridge.

I have never grown corriander, but with shallow or surface plantings, I would keep moist until germination and, or cover with a light mulch or shade blanket. An old tactic for carrots, is to cover with a hesian bag until the first sign of germination.

As for birds in the veg patch... you need a cat to keep them at bay  

You can put a collar around trees to stop the cats climbing to get birds in their nests or perch if you want too.



roland said:


> I made a slingshot and after a week or so I now have no more bird problems




Get a cat... you can then plead ignorant for any collatoral damage.


----------



## Sdajii (18 October 2010)

I took this picture of our vegie garden on Saturday. Good thing we hadn't put anything in yet!


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## nukz (18 October 2010)

I actually started my own vegie garden about a year ago although initially it had nothing to do with food prices it has turned out to be quite a money saver.

The other thing is its really good fun to watch things grow over time.


----------



## Whiskers (18 October 2010)

Sdajii said:


> I took this picture of our vegie garden on Saturday. Good thing we hadn't put anything in yet!




Struth Sdajii, where do you live!? I'd be lucky to see a few crisps of frost in winter. That looks like eskimo country... but great if you are into sking. 

Is that a continuation of winter or just from the recent cold blast?


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## roland (18 October 2010)

I found with coriander, the more you muck around with it, the harder it is to grow. Mine like part shade and to stop them from tangling together I cut the top and bottom from 2L Coke bottles and chuck the seeds in  - don't even really need to cover the seeds.

If they get big enough they will self seed. Also I have some where the stalk is nearly an inch across, you can lay this stalk down and cover with soil and you'll end up with coriander shooting everywhere


----------



## Julia (18 October 2010)

Sdajii said:


> I took this picture of our vegie garden on Saturday. Good thing we hadn't put anything in yet!



Heavens, Sdajii, are you in Australia?


----------



## Sdajii (18 October 2010)

Whiskers said:


> Struth Sdajii, where do you live!? I'd be lucky to see a few crisps of frost in winter. That looks like eskimo country... but great if you are into sking.
> 
> Is that a continuation of winter or just from the recent cold blast?




Kinglake. We get snow most years, but not much, and usually only in the coldest part of winter. I thought we weren't going to get any this year, then I was surprised when we got the best falls I'd ever seen on Saturday. By Sunday it was pretty much all melted, and today you wouldn't know we'd had any. Most of the last few weeks have been filled by lovely warm spring weather, the recent cold blast was unusual. On the property where that vegie garden is there was about 20cm of snow. Just five minutes up the road at the house it always rains and snows much less, and we only had around half that much, but 10-15 cm of snow is still plenty for snowmen, snowball fights, snow cones, and generally bringing the big kid out of everyone!


----------



## Mofra (18 October 2010)

roland said:


> I found with coriander, the more you muck around with it, the harder it is to grow. Mine like part shade and to stop them from tangling together I cut the top and bottom from 2L Coke bottles and chuck the seeds in  - don't even really need to cover the seeds.
> 
> If they get big enough they will self seed. Also I have some where the stalk is nearly an inch across, you can lay this stalk down and cover with soil and you'll end up with coriander shooting everywhere



Nice pic Roland - is the trick to stop it going to seed just to keep trimming or are there other secrets? I find it goes to seed so quickly I only have a window of a couple of weeks of real use.


----------



## Whiskers (18 October 2010)

Sdajii said:


> Kinglake. We get snow most years, but not much, and usually only in the coldest part of winter. I thought we weren't going to get any this year, then I was surprised when we got the best falls I'd ever seen on Saturday. By Sunday it was pretty much all melted, and today you wouldn't know we'd had any. Most of the last few weeks have been filled by lovely warm spring weather, the recent cold blast was unusual. On the property where that vegie garden is there was about 20cm of snow. Just five minutes up the road at the house it always rains and snows much less, and we only had around half that much, but 10-15 cm of snow is still plenty for snowmen, snowball fights, snow cones, and generally bringing the big kid out of everyone!




Starting to get up in the high country a bit eh. Some pretty good looking soil in them there valleys. Looks like most are on the north facing slopes where the soil will warm up quicker. 




Mofra said:


> Nice pic Roland - is the trick to stop it going to seed just to keep trimming or are there other secrets? I find it goes to seed so quickly I only have a window of a couple of weeks of real use.




From my understanding it likes a cool climate/position. Warm to hot and humid weather sends it to seed very quickly. That's why I haven't bothered trying to grow it.

That's a clever trick Roland... and recycling too. I'd say the container helps keep enough warmth and moisture around the seed until it germinates.


----------



## roland (18 October 2010)

Mofra said:


> Nice pic Roland - is the trick to stop it going to seed just to keep trimming or are there other secrets? I find it goes to seed so quickly I only have a window of a couple of weeks of real use.




I can't grow it in a pot - I've never been successful with coriander in a pot. Best to pick a spot in the garden where the ground is moist and not full sun, under a tree is a good spot.

Let it grow and do it's own thing. It'll go to seed at certain times of the year, so just let it drop the seed and keep your plant, after it seeds it'll throw up the edibale leaves again. I have one plant that is 3 years old - it just falls over and sprouts from all over the stem. Sometimes I cut it back hard or just bury the stem.


----------



## jbocker (21 October 2010)

Thank you for the responses on Coriander tips Julia, Whiskers, roland (others), excellent info. Will be losing my little herb patch, as we have decided to sell up after 28 years, will need to create a micro patch in the townhouse in central city.
Have used parsley as an border plant, in the past, and thyme, I dont see why anyone would buy packets from the grocery store, such an easy bush to grow.


----------



## Mofra (21 October 2010)

Cheers Roland, my veggie patch gets sun which must be the reason why is goes to seed so quickly. I'll try the shade trick with a planting shortly.


----------



## Happy (26 October 2010)

Mofra said:


> ....trick with a planting shortly.




Heard about another trick for continuous supply of Coriander to sow seeds every 2 to 3 weeks.

I tried this trick, for some reason seeds had their own ideas on when to germinate, but must say that it was partial success.

I have similar dramas with parsley, my supply almost dries up in December and January to have parsley glut for the rest of year.

(Tried different parsley varieties too, the only result none of them is true to type now. I have all types of partially curvy leaves and no completely flat and true afro ones, but I like it this way, so no tragedy).


----------



## roland (26 October 2010)

Happy said:


> Heard about another trick for continuous supply of Coriander to sow seeds every 2 to 3 weeks.
> 
> I tried this trick, for some reason seeds had their own ideas on when to germinate, but must say that it was partial success.
> 
> ...




I keep my parsley in a $1.50 Bunnings bucket with holes drilled the bottom - cheaper than buying a pot


----------



## roland (26 October 2010)

...and I try and keep a continuous supply of brocoli


----------



## IrishDigger (26 October 2010)

Being an Irish Australian and living in The Garden State there are two things one must do,

Support Collingwood and grow a few spuds.

I have nice litte vegi patch on the go, with three varieties of potatoes, peas, various herbs, kale, lettuce, tomatoes, silver beet and a few odds and ends.

I am also an avid viewer of Gardening Australia, particularly The Vegie Patch Section.

Ah!, sure it's a great country.


----------



## roland (26 October 2010)

IrishDigger said:


> Being an Irish Australian and living in The Garden State there are two things one must do,
> 
> Support Collingwood and grow a few spuds.
> 
> ...




My potatoes didn't flower this year. I had 2 x large pots and a bed of potatoes, they grew great foliage, but no flowers and a little small when harvested.

They're still pretty good though, got around a buckets' worth


----------



## jonojpsg (12 December 2010)

Gotta love Tassie berry fruits and cherries coming into Christmas


----------



## wabbit (12 December 2010)

We are aquaponics converts: growing rainbow trout in winter, barramundi in summer and veges all year 'round.

Old photo... but you get the idea...






Sad to say, we will miss this when go OS soon....


Read more about the entire AP concept at: http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/

wabbit


----------



## jonojpsg (12 December 2010)

wabbit said:


> We are aquaponics converts: growing rainbow trout in winter, barramundi in summer and veges all year 'round.
> 
> Old photo... but you get the idea...
> 
> ...




Now THAT is cool!!  Love your work wabbit


----------



## McCoy Pauley (1 March 2011)

wabbit said:


> We are aquaponics converts: growing rainbow trout in winter, barramundi in summer and veges all year 'round.
> 
> Old photo... but you get the idea...
> 
> ...




Gardening Australia had a segment on aquaponics last Saturday.

I managed to build the second of three raised beds for the vegetables on the weekend.  My youngest daughter helped my wife to sow the seeds for the winter vegies.  We're still enjoying the cos lettuce, the tomatos and the capsicums from our summer crops.  We're waiting for the corn plants to grow some ears and for the beans and peas to climb the trellis.

We've bought a few apple trees, but they've come under attack from aphids and scab, I think.


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## prawn_86 (13 October 2012)

What are the best vegies or herbs to plant in a pot that only gets about 2 hours of direct light every day?

And are there any good ones to put on an indoor window sill that gets about 5 hours of direct light a day?


----------



## burglar (13 October 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> What are the best vegies or herbs to plant in a pot that only gets about 2 hours of direct light every day?
> 
> And are there any good ones to put on an indoor window sill that gets about 5 hours of direct light a day?




I wouldn't analyse, just put in your favourites and watch!
.


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## Julia (13 October 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> What are the best vegies or herbs to plant in a pot that only gets about 2 hours of direct light every day?



If you like mint, that will do well in such conditions but needs plenty of water.  Filtered light is good, not direct sun in summer.  Most vegetables in a pot aren't really worth the trouble because you'd eat in probably a single meal what would be produced.  Climbing cherry tomatoes do well in a pot if you put it against a trellis or plant inside one of those triangular tall structures which the plant will climb.  Not sure it would fruit well with just 2 hours of direct light though.



> And are there any good ones to put on an indoor window sill that gets about 5 hours of direct light a day?



Perhaps baby lettuce varieties or the more woody herbs such as thyme, oregano, rosemary.
Anything in a pot requires quite a lot of attention as they dry out quickly.  A good potting mix is essential and then fortnightly dressing of liquid fertiliser.

Probably more cost effective and a lot easier to just buy what you need.



burglar said:


> I wouldn't analyse, just put in your favourites and watch!
> .



A guaranteed recipe to waste money and effort.  Sorry burglar.


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## burglar (14 October 2012)

Julia said:


> A guaranteed recipe to waste money and effort.  Sorry burglar.




I could have said parsley, rosemary and basil, but what is the point ... these are my favourites !!

No need to apologise, ...
Worst case scenario, I've still got the pots and quality potting mix. 
Just have to wait for the next season, thats all!


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## Tink (14 October 2012)

If you know anyone that has these herbs, rosemary, sage, thyme etc, most strike off from cuttings. They are very easy to propagate, most plants are.

Interesting thread to read, I have the herbs just mentioned, as well as others, mint, parsley, basil. 
A lemon and orange tree, and from my compost, when I spread some out, a peach and nectarine tree just decided to sprout, also a tomato plant -- I was happy with that.


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## qldfrog (14 October 2012)

mints can grow in shady areas so that might do for your 2h sun a day spot
(they are many mints: Vietnamese to European, choose based on your preferences, they also like water )
hope it helps


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## burglar (14 October 2012)

Tink said:


> If you know anyone that has these herbs, rosemary, sage, thyme etc, most strike off from cuttings. They are very easy to propagate, most plants are.
> 
> Interesting thread to read, I have the herbs just mentioned, as well as others, mint, parsley, basil.
> A lemon and orange tree, and from my compost, when I spread some out, a peach and nectarine tree just decided to sprout, also a tomato plant -- I was happy with that.



Hi Tink,

I once harvested rosemary for a friend.
He ground it into extra virgin olive oil (first press).
Then he basted the roast and vegetables.

Two hours later we were eating the best meal ever!!

I had a tomato plant sprout from the compost heap.
Grosse Lisse, great taste and a huge yield!


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## burglar (15 October 2012)

Tink said:


> ... A lemon and orange tree, ...




There is no experience on the planet like walking near a citrus tree in blossom.

It's doubly good when it is a little bit humid and a light breeze is blowing.


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## CanOz (15 October 2012)

burglar said:


> There is no experience on the planet like walking near a citrus tree in blossom.
> 
> It's doubly good when it is a little bit humid and a light breeze is blowing.




Hmmm, i think i just got a whiff! Nice olfactory rush there...Thanks Burgs!


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## Tink (15 October 2012)

Yes I say that too, burglar, I was near it the other day saying how nice it was.

Old fashioned roses do it for me though : )

My orange tree fills completely, mind you I dont give it that much care. My neighbour makes marmalade out of them every year, she loves it - I am not really keen on marmalade.


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## Miss Hale (16 October 2012)

I remember a time when every backyard had at least a lemon tree, if not an apple tree and a few plum trees.  I abhor the modern 'low maintanence' gardens - no fun at all.  We have not long been in our current house and I was delighted to discover recently an apple and a lemon tree in the overgrown tangled mess!  I'm not that great at growing veggie but I keep trying   I have plenty of herbs and can ususlly manage to grow lettuce and tomatoes no problem.  Nothing like home grown tomatoes - absolute bliss!

My Dad grew up suburban Melbourne and would you believe they had a cow


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## Tink (19 October 2012)

Yes agree, Miss Hale.
We have always had lemon trees, and I like my little patch of dirt to potter in.
Funny about the cow, just shows how much everything has moved out and changed.


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## DocK (19 October 2012)

Tink said:


> Yes agree, Miss Hale.
> We have always had lemon trees, and I like my little patch of dirt to potter in.
> Funny about the cow, just shows how much everything has moved out and changed.




I manage to keep the herbs and lettuce alive - love being able to pick what I want, when I want it!  I love the smell and taste of rosemary and basil and luckily it grows very well in my area - Gold Coast.

Unfortunately my record with fruit trees is not so great - I'm good at planting them, but not so great at the spraying etc to keep the bugs off them.  Mine weren't in the best of positions to start with (heavy clay/rocky soil) so stayed a little stunted anyway - but what fruit I used to get was rather deformed   At a previous acreage property I did manage to grow fantastic lemonades, lemons, mandarins and limes - enjoyed a lot of homemade sorbet  I may need to have another go with very large pots - if I put them near the back door I might be more likely to remember to look after them....


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## burglar (19 October 2012)

DocK said:


> ... Mine weren't in the best of positions to start with (heavy clay/rocky soil) so stayed a little stunted ....




Gypsum is a "pH neutral" soil conditioner to break up the clay. 
Compost is great, it adds organic material!

A cow will help too!


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## chris bartlett (21 October 2012)

I have a couple of avocado trees in a clay based garden in NW Tasmania which have turned distinctly  yellow and are not growing beyond a metre high and need help. Been planted 4 years and I thought we would be eating them now!! Any suggestions please re fertiliser and growing tips please?. Thankyou Chris.


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## burglar (21 October 2012)

chris bartlett said:


> I have a couple of avocado trees in a clay based garden in NW Tasmania which have turned distinctly  yellow and are not growing beyond a metre high and need help. Been planted 4 years and I thought we would be eating them now!! Any suggestions please re fertiliser and growing tips please?. Thankyou Chris.




Hey chris.

 You a fighting an uphill battle!

After a little research on google I discovered that:
Avocadoes like warmer climes and free draining (limestone) soils.

Are they in full sun?

Clay soils can be conditioned with Dolomite 
to make them more like free draining (limestone) soils.
I saw a recommendation to plant them on a mound in flood prone areas.

The yellowing of leaves? My guess is deficiency of Nitrogen. 

http://www.dialatree.com.au/Fact sheets/fertilising fact sheet.pdf

Hope this helps.


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## Julia (21 October 2012)

Chris, as burglar has suggested, your climate will be too cold for avocados.


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## Doris (22 October 2012)

burglar said:


> Hey chris.
> 
> You a fighting an uphill battle!
> 
> ...




Some good advice.  However...

My avocado tree drops its leaves after winter (I'm half way between GC and BNE). Obviously the leaves yellow first. Right now I have thousands of 'flowers' but half are fruit and beside the buds, the new leaves are coming on now too.


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## Doris (22 October 2012)

Does anyone know whether a mango tree's fruit depends on the previous year's rainfall? I was told this!

I gave up watering it as it hadn't had flowers in the 9 years since I planted at as a 5 year old.
Now it's set for a bumper virgin crop! Bowen mangos. Yumm!

My red paw paw tree has a dozen fruit on it. The perfect breakfast!
Lucky I have tank water. You have to water well when trees are in flower/fruit eh!


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## burglar (23 October 2012)

Doris said:


> ... Bowen mangos. Yumm! ...



Hi Doris,

http://www.burkesbackyard.com.au/fa...ition/2UE-mango-growing-tips-and-recipes/6027


> Cheater’s mango ice-cream
> 
> 2/3 to 3/4 of a tub of plain vanilla ice-cream, softened at room temperature
> flesh of 2 ripe mangoes
> ...


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## Doris (25 October 2012)

burglar said:


> Hi Doris,
> 
> http://www.burkesbackyard.com.au/fa...ition/2UE-mango-growing-tips-and-recipes/6027




Thanks for your deliciously decadent idea burglar!
And I have an ice-cream maker! Put it all in and churn away.

Literally hundreds of mangos on the tree.

-- but -- 
I'm on top of Edens Landing and the strong winds of the past few weeks have come up and decimated the avocados! Very few fruit -- and the flowers have hit the ground.


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## burglar (29 December 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> What are the best vegies or herbs to plant in a pot that only gets about 2 hours of direct light every day?
> 
> And are there any good ones to put on an indoor window sill that gets about 5 hours of direct light a day?






> Making a list, checkin' it twice.
> Gunna find out your favourite spice !




What did you decide on, prawn_86?

I can't sleep at night for wondering.


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## light9 (11 January 2013)

burglar said:


> What did you decide on, prawn_86?
> 
> I can't sleep at night for wondering.




LOL, interesting thread. but i don't plant vegetables in our garden


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## burglar (11 January 2013)

light9 said:


> LOL, interesting thread. but i don't plant vegetables in our garden




search for flowers

or search for stone fruits

enjoy


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## Humid (3 January 2019)

Thought I would turn over some old turf here
For tonight’s dinner I cooked this
https://www.gourmettraveller.com.au...llies-and-holy-basil-neua-pat-bai-grapao-7362
He’s my go too man if I’m on the Thai food ......wow
Sourced from my veggie patch
Chill is
Thai Basil
Coriander because I’m addicted 
Eggs from the backyard 
I’m also growing Thai egg plant,lemon grass,Kaffir lime,daikon,corn,cucumber,rhubarb pizza thyme for the wood fire,passion fruit and a pile of citrus
Lastly I’m growing patience with my neighbors yelping f####### dogs
David Thompson is on SBS he is inspirational


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## noirua (4 February 2021)




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