# Dividend, Share Price: Is there a connection?



## Lucstar (6 September 2004)

Hi guys. Just a question out of curiosity. Do dividend payouts affect the share price? For example, if a company were paying dividends today. Is the company's share price likely to go down?


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## clowboy (6 September 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Yes, generally speaking there is a connection.

Usually a share price will fall the day it goes ex-divedend simply because people are taking a profit.  The fall is not usually that great and often reflects the value of the divedend.  The share price will also often rise a little leading up to the stock going ex-divedend.


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## stefan (7 September 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Clowboy is right by saying that there is a connection and that there is a drop in price once the stock goes ex dividend. But the reason is not because of people taking profit. It is because otherwise you would get a free lunch and that just never happens (Or if it does, usually the lunch turns out to be pretty bad).

In short:
If company A is trading at $10 and announces a dividend of $1, the share price will drop by $1 on the first day it is trading ex-dividend. (Check the NAB thread to see my posting regarding exactly that issue.) The price seem to have dropped for no reason if you're not aware that the stock is trading ex-dividend. Why is it falling? To compensate for the dividend paid. If it wouldn't fall, then you would get a $1 for free and that goes back to the story about free lunch...

So for the time until after the pay date, the stock will be trading lower. The only hope is that the market is so strong and the stock so hot, that it will regain the drop BEFORE it is trading "normal" again. In that case, you would be able to get a $1 from your dividend and some minor gains due to an increased share price. This is called "Dividend Capture".  It's a strategy whereby the investor buys the stock roughly two weeks before it goes ex-dividend and then sells it about two weeks after it has gone ex-dividend in order to collect the dividend and make a small profit on the trade. On the stock's ex-dividend date, its price will drop by the amount of the dividend. The theory is that the stock's price will work its way back up to the price it was at before the ex-dividend date. This allows the investor to sell slightly above the purchase price. Thus, the investor is able to collect the dividend and realize a small capital gain in about four weeks. Also referred to as a "dividend rollover plan."

Lots of ideas have been posted regarding a way to profit from a dividend payout but it just doesn't work.

Happy trading

Stefan


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## Lucstar (7 September 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thanks guys, especially to stefan. Very well explained!!


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## clowboy (7 September 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Yea by profit taking I meant it in the sense of what Stefan said, thanx for the clarity Stefan, I am not so great at putting thoughts to paper (or text).


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## rozella (20 November 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Here is an article in todays newspaper

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,11438484%5E643,00.html 

I have just found this forum yesterday & recognise some of the names, & if anyone has seen my posts before on other forums you will know that I use  the Dividend Trading Strategy for my prime source of income.  I also started a website a few months ago to demonstrate how I do it, although the trading diary/margin trading on the website is based on eod data, but personally I trade intraday to try & extract a few extra dollars.....not everyones cup of tea, but this is my own strategy that I feel comfortable with & have now been making a living from it for a number of years.

If there is anyone interested in this type of trading, I am only to willing to reply.  

http://www.exdividendwatchlist.com.au 

rozella


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## rozella (23 November 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

As a followup on the above newspaper article:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,11438484^643,00.html 

Someone has emailed me the strategy on the ASX site as follows:
http://www.asx.com.au/markets/l4/WarrantStrategyofWeek_AM4.shtm 

As a result I decided to see how this example of QAN compares with margin trading.  QAN has a LVR of 70% with most marginlenders

Initial capital $10000
Buy 9891 shares @ $3.37.......................$33332.67
Sell 9891 shares @ $3.41.......................$33728.31
Profit.....................................................$   395.64

Dividend 9891 x 0.09...............................$   890.19
                                                             $ 1285.83

Less broker 2 x $33.................................$   (66.00)
Less 49 day holding charges
@ 8.15% p.a.  on $23332.67.....................$ (255.28)

Total Return.............................................$  964.55

Percentage Return on Investment....................9.64%
not annualised

* franking credits are not included

*** This is 61% more than the warrant strategy***

Let me know if anyone finds a flaw in my calculations.

Cheers,

rozella


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## stefan (23 November 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Provided that the share price will rise, which in current market conditions is a likely event, then you'll be the winner. I'm just a bit concerned as you do base your investment heavily on margin lending so if it turns against you, the loss will be accordingly. Comes down to the importance of stop loss and close monitoring and you seem to have that all in place. After all in a bull market almost anything works, especially stuff based on margin lending. 

Would be interesting to hear more about it from you as you seem to do it on a regular basis. 

Happy trading

Stefan


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## rozella (23 November 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Yes, you can "almost" use a dart board at present stefan, but I have been using this strategy for the last 4/5 years.  As in any job, the more experience you gain the more you learn about handling situations, such as Sept 12th. 

If there is some interest in this thread, I will post my buys & sells as they happen upfront (not after the event).  As some of the posters here are aware, I do this on other forums as well if they are active & there is some response.   My trading has been a little quite for the last week, as there are not many new deals for this strategy that fit my criteria atm & still have 13 open trades, but property trusts are just around the corner & have already completed trades recently on SGP, MCW, GAN, & CPA on the lead up to exdiv close to Christmas.....will be re-entering very shortly.

Cheers,

rozella


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## stefan (24 November 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



> My trading has been a little quite for the last week, as there are not many new deals for this strategy that fit my criteria atm & still have 13 open trades



It would be interesting to know what sort of criteria you apply for this strategy. I for one would be keen to follow a few of your trades here to get an idea where you're coming from. 

Happy trading

Stefan


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## RodC (24 November 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi rozella,

I've been reading your threads with interest on another forum, I'd certainly be interested in seeing some more info about your strategy posted here.

regards,

Rod.


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## rozella (24 November 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thanks stefan & RodC,

AWB just reported this morning, I entered this on 10th November @ 472.0 (section 1 of my strategy) with a margin of 70%.  Investment 141.6/share.
Dividend has just been declared @ 11.0 fully franked (same as last year).  I usually enter section 2 a day after the announcement giving the market time to digest.  

I trade intraday & that is what I will post here, but on my website it is eod trading all entry/exit are last price of the day subject to available volume.  I am saying this because I usually am asked why there is a difference between my forum postings & website postings.

The following pages outline the strategy & trades on the website since 1st July 2004.  All trades are on margin, & the marginlending page shows the growth of the portfolio position without including franking credits & dividends earned that are not paid, although they are listed but not added in.

Trading Diary 

Margin Trading Position 

Market has started,

rozella


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## rozella (24 November 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold LNN today @ 794.0.  Bought 5th November @ 777.0 with a 70% margin. 
Investment 233.1/share.
Gross profit 17.0/share = 7.29% return on investment.   19 day trade.
Exdiv 6th December.  Div 15.0/share fully franked
May re-enter, see what happens.

Sold 2 separate parcels of SGB today @ 2456.0    Bought 15th November in 2 separate parcels @ 2410.0 each with a margin of 75%.
Investment 602.5/share
Gross profit 46.0/share = 7.63% return on investment.   9 day trade.
Exdiv 29th November.  Div 62.0/share fully franked
I will probably re-enter by Friday close to gain the dividend on this one.  This is the 5th completed trade on SGB since 19th October.

rozella


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## rozella (25 November 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered LNN today @ 779.0 with a 70% margin.  Investment 233.7/share
Exdiv 6th December. Div 15.0/share fully franked

Still waiting to re-enter SGB, last day tomorrow before exdiv day on Monday.

rozella


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## rozella (26 November 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Misjudged SGB selling on Wednesday, but since today is the last chance to be eligible for the dividend, I re-entered at almost the highest price today in two parcels @ 2480.0 with a margin of 75%.  Investment 620.0/share.
Exdiv Monday 29th November.  Div 62.0 fully franked.

rozella


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## rozella (29 November 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold LNN @ 805.0 this morning.  Bought 25th November @ 779.0 with a 70% margin. Investment 233.7/share
Gross profit 26.0/share = 11.12% return on investment.  4 day trade.
Exdiv 6th December. Div 15.0/share fully franked

AWB & SGB went exdiv today....atm both are approx as expected......AWB is down the full div + fc.

rozella


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## suzanne (29 November 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Dear Rozella,

I too would be very interested in learning more of your technique.

Cheers

suzanne


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## rozella (30 November 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				stefan said:
			
		

> It would be interesting to know what sort of criteria you apply for this strategy. I for one would be keen to follow a few of your trades here to get an idea where you're coming from.
> 
> Happy trading
> 
> Stefan





I missed your post earlier Stefan,

Dividend + Franking Credit as a percentage of the investment must be more than 10% to be put on my watchlist.  Then depending how many prospects are available & the cash available, the order of priority of stocks entered are as follows:

Good outlook for the following year
Increased profit from previous year
Increased dividend from previous year
Marginlending LVR no less than 60%
Stock in uptrend

So if all 5 points are met, then there is a good probability of profits in the trade as well as the dividend.  When there is less stocks to choose from, I just have to enter the the stocks that meet the most criteria.  It is all based on "the lure of the dividend making the price rise"

The Dividend Trading Strategy can be divided into 4 sections.

   1. From now until profit announcement date  (gamble section)
   2. From profit announcement date until exdividend date
   3. The dividend and franking credit amount.
   4. After the fall on exdividend date until the stock rises to the price you want.

Sometimes I pyramid on each stage, other times just individual sections.

G'day suzanne, it is really a very simple strategy, you just have understand that you will be wrong some of the time, so don't think you know more than the market.....use you stoploss & move on to the next.  Most believe they can't be wrong because they have done all the research & finish up losing or having their cash in limbo waiting because they believe in a stock.  The best indicator is the price, & the best time factor is now.


rozella


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## crashy (30 November 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

rozella

how do you handle the 45 day rule?

also re SGB

I have noticed a severe negative bias once ex-div. it seems SGB div strippers are the biggest gluttons for punishment on the ASX. Every div SGB pays, the stock will run 3-4x the div amount going into the div, peak a day or two before ex, then tank indefinately afterwards. The peaks always seem to be the cum-div period. A quick glance at SGB chart will confirm all of this.

your thoughts?

also, you may find you get better results trading via self funded instalment warrants for the big blues.


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## rozella (30 November 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

You must be psychic crashy, I was going to mention the 45 day rule on my last post, but I hate reading long posts myself so I don't push them on to others.

Short answer is if you go past the $5k exemption per tax entity you lose them.  But if you have joint ownership then you have 2 x $5k for example, a super fund gives you an extra $5k.  You can easily achieve $18k dividends per tax entity trading property trusts & partially franked stocks, then you have the other 3 sections of the strategy to really work on.



> also, you may find you get better results trading via self funded instalment warrants for the big blues.




To each his own I guess, I just like the flexibility of marginlending & feel very comfortable with it



> I have noticed a severe negative bias once ex-div. it seems SGB div strippers are the biggest gluttons for punishment on the ASX. Every div SGB pays, the stock will run 3-4x the div amount going into the div, peak a day or two before ex, then tank indefinately afterwards. The peaks always seem to be the cum-div period. A quick glance at SGB chart will confirm all of this.




I just looked through my trading records & the last 4 divs on SGB were small positive trades as well as recieving the dividend.  The worst result was last November when I sold at a small trading profit plus the dividend, but held for 54 days, the other times were between 7 & 22 days

Cheers,

rozella


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## RichKid (30 November 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Very interesting thread, keep it going Rozella, I'm a bit of a novice and generally just trade basic support resistance short term but this dividend strategy looks good, must get my head around it. I don't use margin so I'll have to see if it works without it. Maybe through CFD's...(although I haven't used those yet). Glad to have you on the forums!


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## rozella (1 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought BSO today on the royalty announcement @ 253.0 with a margin of 50%.
Investment 126.5/share.
Sold today @ 263.0/share.
Gross profit 10.0/share = 7.9% return on investment.  1 day trade.
Exdistribution 23rd Dec 50.782/share.  huge yield, been there, done that.....takes too long to come back to the buy price.  There may be a few trades in it before 23rd Dec.

Bought TEN today @ 424.0 with a 70% margin.  Investment 127.2/share.
Exdiv expected 23rd Dec.  Last year div was 9.5/share + a special div of 5.5/share = 15.0 fully franked.  Can't count on the special div until announced.

rozella


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## rozella (2 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

A great day on the market today & certainly made up for yesterday.

Finally sold MGW today @ an average of 530.35.   Bought 25th October @ 530.0 with a 65% margin.  Investment 185.5/share.  Div 13.75/share fully franked 5.89/share.
Gross profit 19.99/share = 10.77% return on investment.  38 day trade.

rozella


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## crashy (3 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

hi rozella

I was asking how YOU handle the 45 day rule, not how others should handle it. ps I have a DFA.

from what I know of your strategy, you buy FPO stock using leverage, hold for a short period, get the div and hopefully sell the stock at a profit.

Its a good strategy, and although you werent the first to come up with it, you do seem to have turned it into an art form.

But I believe it could be done better.

There are several issues with your strategy:

1. Time delay between ex-div dates and clearing of div cheque.
2. Major time delay between ex-div dates and tax refund time (to make use of the franking credits)
3. Assessable income increases with each div received
4. Unlimited leveraged risk
5. capital losses from ex-div falls must be offset against capital gains elsewhere, cannot be offset against div income

many of these issues can be resolved simply by switching to self funding instalment warrants.

Point 1. Since no div cheque is sent, there is no delay, and no ex-div fall (assuming fpo falls nett div amount)

Point 3. Assessable income decreases with each div "paid", since no div cheque is received, but franking credits still apply. Read the example on my site for more info.

Point 4. Risk is limited to the initial amount paid for the warrant. Trading on margin, if there was another 911, you may find a margin call will wipe out your account in a millisecond. You lose all of your equity plus more if it is a bad drop, and will have no way to recover. 
With warrants this cannot happen. Warrants provide similar or better leverage than margin lending (removing the chance of a margin call), and can provide prepaid interest tax benefits.

Point 5. capital losses from ex-div falls dont exist. If the stock recovers over X days as you predict, the result is a simple capital gain. If you have a series of trades where the capital loss equals the nett div, you will find yourself with a capital loss you cant offset, and a large increase to your assessable income. Not good.

So in summary, my mods to your system:

1. decreases risk
2. improves after tax performance
3. far simpler and easier
4. offers better leverage (which will improve annual performance further)
5. you dont have to balance capital gains 
6. lowers your marginal tax bracket
7. allows quicker reinvestment of funds (which will improve annual performance further)
8. you will probably save a heap on accountant fees since its a lot simpler

Just my 2c


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## crashy (3 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Another point I would make is regarding your profit claims. You include div payments on quick trades even though you will likely get the cheque 3-4 weeks later, making the effective trade period much longer. Franking credits may not be used for up to a year later. I just feel it is slightly misleading the way you report profits thats all.


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## rozella (3 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day crashy,

Many traders/investors use the dividend strategy & have been long before I took it on board.  We can thank Mr Keating for the changes with franking credits.

As I said before I am comfortable with this strategy & have made a reasonable living from it for the past 5 years which took in 911..... the next month Oct 01 was & still is the best trading month I have had, well & truly offsetting losses in the Sept.

There are many ways to make a living from the sharemarket & the *Dividend Trading Strategy* is my way.  As most would know on this forum, I have subscribers to my exdividendwatchlist & it is up to the individual to deal with those stocks as they want with any strategy.  I provide the list of exdividend dates.  I have browsed your website & it has some good ideas, however I personally prefer marginlending.



> There are several issues with your strategy:




"1. Time delay between ex-div dates and clearing of div cheque.
2. Major time delay between ex-div dates and tax refund time (to make use of the franking credits)
3. Assessable income increases with each div received
4. Unlimited leveraged risk
5. capital losses from ex-div falls must be offset against capital gains 
elsewhere, cannot be offset against div income"

1.& 2.I have no problems with this although it would be nice to receive them earlier.
3. Agree
4. Disagree, a marginlender will contact you to take action if you fall through your buffer.  e.g. if you owned AMP or TLS with a marginlender you would have been forced to use your stoploss.  Some traders find it difficult to pull the trigger in a losing situation, so if you won't do it, big brother insists.
5. This will depend on whether you have trader status or investor status.

"Another point I would make is regarding your profit claims. You include div payments on quick trades even though you will likely get the cheque 3-4 weeks later, making the effective trade period much longer. Franking credits may not be used for up to a year later. I just feel it is slightly misleading the way you report profits thats all."

This is my website margin trading page where dividends are not added until received, & franking credits are not included at all (but listed)

Margin Trading 

Crashy, I think your ideas are good, but I am sure it would be better for you to demonstrate & post your trades on this thread for all to have a better understanding of your strategy.  Live examples of your current trades so we can follow them. 

rozella  exdividendwatchlist


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## crashy (4 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I wont be adopting your strategy or my mod version of it just to prove a point. 

I have "invented a better mousetrap" but sales are slow it seems.

If I get time I might show a hypothetical trade or two as they come up.

My "current trades" are likely to be daytrades on FX, about as distant and irrelevant as you can get.


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## rozella (8 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold TEN this morning @ 441.0.  Bought @ 424.0 with a margin of 70% on 1st December.  
Investment 127.2/share.
Gross profit 17.0/share = 13.36% return on investment.  7 day trade.
exdiv 23rd December for a div of 12.5/share fully franked 5.357/share.
I will enter again if it dips.  last year's div was 9.5 div + 5.5 spec.div = 15.0

rozella


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## ghotib (8 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I'm following this with considerable interest. Thanks Rozella and Crashy.

Just wondering, is there normally a bit of a rise in share price immediately a stock comes out of its xdiv period, or is the next divvie too far ahead to have much effect?

Thanks

Ghoti


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## rozella (8 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Ghoti,

If the stock has a good outlook for the future, it usually continues to rise, it is just that blip cut out of it for the dividend that upsets the chart.  It depends on the quality of the stock.  The stock has given away part of its worth as a dividend, so it immediately is worth that much less.  I always allow for a drop of dividend + franking credit.  The next dividend does not really have much effect on the price until it gets much closer, unless there is an announcement with lots of promises.

rozella


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## crashy (8 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

ghoti

due to the 45 day rule for franking credits, there is often buying occuring for 45 days before the div, and selling for 45 days afterward. Smart investors buy 45 (47) days before the div, and sell ex-div day. Amateurs buy on the cum-div day and sell 45 days later. 
Of course this assumes the stock would otherwise be stable, which rarely happens. generally its best to buy ex-div when overall market sentiment is positive.


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## ghotib (9 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thanks Crashy. 

I'm looking to buy into TIM, which I've been investigating for quite a while - since about 60cents ago <grr> - with a view to long term hold. It barely blinked when it went XDIV. It dropped along with the rest of the market over the last couple of days, and I guess I'm wondering if it might drop a bit further even if the rest of the market picks up again this week. Would you still call market sentiment positive if we have another 2 days of falls - and if not why not?

Cheers,

Ghoti


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## crashy (9 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

traders far wiser than me suggest that anything more than 3 days down is a change in trend. so tomorrow is make or break.


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## rozella (10 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered TEN today @ 435.0 with a margin of 70%.  Investment 130.5/share.
exdiv 23rd December for a div of 12.5/share fully franked 5.357/share.

rozella


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## still_in_school (10 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,

just 2 really quick questions, who do you use as your online broker, as your brokerage is really cheap.

but also, im a bit confused, but.. could you please give me an idea on your brokerage rate if possible.

say for:

$10k ?
$20k ?
$30k ?
$40k ?
$50k ?

Cheers,
sis

sorry, i just feel that im been really ripped off by my broker.


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## rozella (11 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

still_in_school,

I use AOT (hopefully all will remain the same since Commsec has acquired them....I don't expect so in time)

All brokerage is $33 incl gst.    note: you can also have 6 buy trades (or 6 sells) onthe same stock on the same day at different price levels for the single $33

AOT 

rozella


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## rozella (11 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Just as a matter of interest, our website dividend strategy/marginlending using 'end of day data' has just passed the 50% return on investment under the first 6 months of this year.
Brokerage & approx interest has been deducted.  Franking credits have been listed, but not included in any profits.  All dividends have been credited to the account.

Margin Loan

Trading Diary

rozella


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## still_in_school (11 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thanks Rozella,

im so surprised by how cheap the brokerage is... but also it allows you more profit margin, on all trades, due to the set brokerage rate, but also the rate my broker has been charging me....definetly i will be changing for sure.

*Cut and Pasted from AOT Website.*

Using AOT's Integral trading platform, you are able to trade for a flat fee of $33 (inc GST) for trades up to $1 million per confirmation.

http://aotonline.com.au/private/fees.php

Cheers & Many Thanks,
sis


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## rozella (12 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				still_in_school said:
			
		

> Thanks Rozella,
> 
> im so surprised by how cheap the brokerage is... but also it allows you more profit margin, on all trades, due to the set brokerage rate, but also the rate my broker has been charging me....definetly i will be changing for sure.
> 
> ...




I forgot to mention, but you probably read it on the AOT site, there is a software/data fee per month, it is split into 2 parts, software $38.50 max, & data $38.5 max.  If you have  minimum of 8 trades per month (combination of buys & sells) one of the $38.50 is free, but if you have 16 or more trades there is no monthly fees at all.

That may make a difference to the average trade price, mine is generally free, that is why I forgot.

rozella

Cheers


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## rozella (13 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold some bank stocks today as they are going nowhere to finance the LPT's coming up.

Sold WBC today @ 1863.0.  Bought @ 1879.0 on 2nd November with a margin of 75%.
Investment 469.75/share
Dividend 44.0/share fully franked 18.85/share
Gross profit 46.85/share = 9.97% return on investment

Sold NAB today @ 2790.0.  Bought @ 2855.0 on 3rd November with a margin of 75%.
Investment 713.75/share
Dividend 83.0/share fully franked 35.57/share
Gross profit 53.57/share = 7.5% return on investment

Re-entered SGP today @ 589.0 with a margin of 70%.
Investment 176.7/share
exdistribution expected 23rd December.  
Last years distrib. was 18.0/share franked to 18.89% 1.46/share

rozella


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## rozella (15 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold SGP today @ 600.0.  Bought on 13th December @ 589.0 with a margin of 70%.
Investment 176.7/share
Reported yesterday.  Distribution 19.3/share Franking TBA.  exdiv 23rd Dec
Gross profit 11.0/share = 6.22% return on investment.  2 day trade.
Will re-enter soon.  Currently 593/595

My timing was off with selling some of my NAB holdings with the Danske Bank sale....but nothing to do with the dividend strategy......my bad luck.

rozella


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## rozella (15 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered SGP today @ 594.0 with a margin of 70%.  Investment 178.2/share.

Sold another parcel today of WBC @ 1896.0   Bought 8th November @ 1896.0 with a margin of 75%.  Investment 474.0/share.  Dividend received yesterday 44.0/share fully franked 18.857/share.
Gross profit 62.857/share = 13.26% return on investment.  37 day trade.

rozella


----------



## rozella (16 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold a parcel of ANZ today @ 2033.0 (taking too long to rise)  Bought @ 2028.0 with a margin of 75% on 8th November (exdiv day).  Investment 507.0/share
Gross profit 5.0/share = 0.99% return on investment.  38 day trade.

Re-entered CPA today on the close @ 132.0 with a margin of 70%.  Investment 39.6/share
Ex-distribution 23rd December.  div 4.83/share zero franked.

rozella


----------



## rozella (17 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold last parcel today of WBC @ 1915.0.  Bought @ 1908.0 on 2nd November with a margin of 75%.  Investment 477.0/share.  Div received 44.0/share fully franked 18.857/share.
Gross profit 69.857 = 14.64% return on investment.  45 day trade

Sold a parcel today of SGB @ 2484.0.  Bought @ 2480.0 on 26th November with a margin of 75%.  Investment 620.0/share.  Div received today 62.0/share fully franked 26.57/share
Gross profit  92.57/share = 14.93% return on investment.  21 day trade

rozella


----------



## rozella (20 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold last parcel of SGB today @ 2485.0   Bought 26th November @ 2480.0 with a margin of 75%   Investment 620.0/share.  Div 62.0/share fully franked 26.57/share
Gross profit 93.57/share = 15.09% return on investment.  24 day trade.

Re-entered GAN on 15th Dec @ 165.0 with a margin of 70%.  Investment 49.5/share.
Exdistribution 23rd Dec.  5.2/share zero franked.  

rozella


----------



## rozella (21 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold last parcel today of ANZ @ 2049.0  Bought @ 2044.0 on 1st November with a margin of 75%.  Investment 511.0/share.  Div 54.0/share fully franked 23.14/share.
Gross profit 82.14/share = 16.07% return on investment.  50 day trade

Bought DUE today @ 253.0 with a margin of 65%.  Investment 88.55/share.  
Exdist 23rd December.  Dist. 13.5/share zero franked.

rozella


----------



## nto (22 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,

I have been following this thread since I joined, your strategy involves margin lending, is it possible to work without a margin loan? I know I wouldnt be able to trade as much. I can see if I lose first go then it will be hard to recover. But it is not really a gamble it is a calculated risk?

Any comments be great

Have a great Christmas
Thanks
Norm


----------



## rozella (22 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Norm,

Marginlending is just a way of financing so that you are able to have more in the market.

To buy say 3000 ANZ, whether you buy on margin or not will still give you the same dollar profit or loss.  Its only the percentage return on investment outlayed that is different.

It is a good idea to start the strategy with 100% of your own cash, then as you feel comfortable with it, start a margin loan account & gradually reduce your own cash invested.   It is not much point borrowing money to invest if you are not sure of a strategy.  It took me a while to be satisfied & to fine tune my rules, & then I was only prepared to borrow 80% of the credit available.  But in the last few years I have become very disciplined with stoplosses & now operate in the buffer zone most of the time. i.e. 102% approx of available credit.

You don't see much evidence of stoplosses in my posts because we are in a great period for the strategy.

rozella


----------



## DTM (22 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella

I have enjoyed reading your posts.  You have an interesting investment method.  What are the risks involved?  What do you look for when you make the dividend play?  What happens to the price of the share after the last date to qualify for the dividend?  Do different shares react different when the shares go ex dividend.

Interested to know.


----------



## rozella (22 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day DTM,



> What are the risks involved?



If you decide that the stock meets your criteria, you go with it & a disciplined stoploss protects you if you were wrong.



> What do you look for when you make the dividend play?



Increased profits, increased dividend, & good outlook statement for the future.



> What happens to the price of the share after the last date to qualify for the dividend?



I usually expect for the stock to drop the dividend + franking credit on exdiv day & adjust my last trailing stoploss down by that amount.  This is the only time I adjust the stoploss down.



> Do different shares react different when the shares go ex dividend.



Yes, but life is not that easy.....I wish I knew which ones......what is a great recovery stock this period, may be a dog the next.

Most of the above is on my website, if you go to Trading Diary, you will see where the initial stoploss is followed a few lines down with the current trailing stoploss as at 17th December.  The Margin Trading page will show you the trading position as at 17th December.

exdividendwatchlist 

rozella


----------



## DTM (22 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thanks Rozella

Greatly appreciated


----------



## rozella (22 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought DRT today @ 133.0 with a margin of 70%.  Investment 39.9/share.
Exdist 23rd December.  Dist. 5.2/share zero franked.

rozella


----------



## rozella (28 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold SGP on 24th December @ 589.0   Bought on 13th December @ 589.0 with a margin of 70%  Investment 176.7/share.  Exdist on 23rd Dec.  Distributon of 19.3/share & franking TBA.
Gross profit 19.3/share = 10.92% return on investment.  11 day trade.

rozella


----------



## RichKid (28 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,

Watching your thread with interest. Newbies like me are sure to learn.

I'm currently in GoldLink (GLI) and thought it may qualify for your type of strategy (I bought some after it went ex div for a short term trade), might see what I can do next time it approaches ex-div date and buy before ex date like your rather than afterwards (as I did this time).

This is not a tip but GLI may be your type of candidate as it pays regular fully franked divs and rises predicatably (touchwood!!!).


----------



## rozella (29 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Rich Kid,

I always see GLI pop up near dividend period, but am more involved with others as the LVR for GLI is only 50%, I have just looked at the exercise buying GLI 2 weeks prior to exdiv as follows.

Buy GLI @ 116.0 on 19th November with a 50% margin.  Investment 58.0/share.  Exdiv 3rd December.  Div 5.0/share fully franked 2.14/share.
It reached 122.0 on 2nd Dec, so trailing stoploss is 118.0 at close.  Open on exdiv day, trailing stoploss is 118.0 - (div+fc) = 111.0/share.  This is ok as exdiv day close is 114.0.

3rd   Dec 114.0  trailing stoploss 111.0
6th   Dec 115.0  trailing stoploss 111.0
7th   Dec 115.0  trailing stoploss 111.0
8th   Dec 114.0  trailing stoploss 111.0
9th   Dec 119.0  trailing stoploss 115.0
10th Dec 118.0  trailing stoploss 115.0
13th Dec 112.0  stopped out

Sold GLI @ 112.0 on 13th December.
Gross profit 3.14/share = 5.41% return on investment
24 day trade

If we were still holding it was 107.0 on 24th December.

If the LVR was 65% or 70% then I would probably use it.  Stoploss must be disciplined for this strategy to be a consistent winner.

All the best in the New Year for everyone & I hope we all have a prosporous one.

Cheers,

rozella


----------



## idribble (30 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

thanks rozella for a brilliant and informative thread.


----------



## rozella (31 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought WDC today @ 1646.0 with a margin of 75%.  Investment 411.5/share.
Profit announcement expected in February.  Distribution ?

CBA next on the list.....maybe next week

rozella


----------



## Tric (31 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

great thread rozella, thanks.

I also had a look at your website, all very interesting and profitable strategy esp in todays market.


----------



## rozella (31 December 2004)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Tric,  glad you are interested.

Sold DRT today near the close @ 133.0  Bought 22nd December @ 133.0 with a margin of 70%.
Investment 39.9/share.  Div 5.2/share zero franked.
Gross profit 5.2/share = 13.03% return on investment   9 day trade.

Happy New Year to all

Cheers,

rozella


----------



## rozella (4 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Not a great deal to buy that has declared a dividend, so I have temporarily dropped my yield margin & bought NFD today @ 631.0 with a 70% margin.  Investment 189.3/share.
Dividend 10.0/share fully franked 4.29/share.  Exdiv 11th January.
I think I will sell prior to exdiv day.....risky trading with takeover offers about, especially if the bidders pull out.

Bought JBM today prior to profit announcement date @ 444.0 with a 50% margin.
Investment 222.0/share.  
Last years dividend this period was 20.0/share 50% franked 4.29/share, & the exdiv date was 23rd February.......see what happens on announcement date as to staying for the div.

Put a buy order in for CBA @ 3209.0

rozella


----------



## rozella (4 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold GAN today @ 164.85.  Bought @ 165.0 on 15th December with a margin of 70%.
Investment 49.5/share.  Div 5.2/share zero franked.
Gross profit 5.05/share = 10.2 % return on investment.  20 day trade.

rozella


----------



## Kimbo2005 (6 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

The market is full of anomalies.

Take for example Nylex, (NLX).

It effectively has no assets and has not paid a dividend for years.  Even after years of turmoil mamnagement still admits it is too ealry to anticipate a dividend; (the banks will be after further reductions in debt before money flows to shareholders.

Despite this the shares are selling for about 39 cents.  Just shows what hype from management can do in terms of supporting the share price and allowing those who got new shares for 25 cents to get out at a hefty profit.

One day, when NLX pays a dividend, shareholders might realise the lack of substance of the company and the share price will take an appropriate dive.


----------



## rozella (7 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold CPA today @ 132.0.  Bought 16th December @132.0 with a 70% margin.  Investment 39.6/share.  Dividend 4.83/share zero franked.
Gross profit 4.83 = 12.2% return on investment.  22 day trade.

rozella


----------



## rozella (10 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold WDC today @ 1697.0  Bought @ 1646.0 on 31st December with a margin of 75%.
Investment 411.50/share.
Gross profit 51.0/share = 12.39% return on investment.   10 day trade.
Will be looking for a new entry if it eases back.

Sold NFD today @ 635.0 on the close.  I had hoped for a bit more, but did not want to stay for the dividend.  Bought @ 631.0 on 4th January with a 70% margin. 
Investment 189.3/share.
Gross profit 4.0/share = 2.11% return on investment.  6 day trade.

rozella


----------



## rozella (11 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold JBM today @ 464.0.  Bought @ 444.0 on 4th January with a margin of 50%. 
Investment 222.0/share.
Gross profit 20.0/share = 9.01% return on investment.  7 day trade.

Bought DJW today @ 365.0 with a margin of 70%.  Investment 109.5/share.
Profit announcement expected around 4th February to go exdiv approx 10th February.
Last years div for this period was 10.0/share fully franked.

rozella


----------



## rozella (11 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought GWT today on the close @ 319.0 with a margin of 65%.  Investment 111.65/share.
Expected to report around 3rd February with exdiv approx 11th March.  The same period last year div was 10.0/share fully franked 4.29/share.

rozella


----------



## rozella (12 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered JBM today @ 455.0 with a 50% margin.  Investment 227.5/share.
Last years dividend this period was 20.0/share 50% franked 4.29/share, & the exdiv date was 23rd February.......see what happens on announcement date as to staying for the div.

Bought CBA today @ 3251.0 with a margin of 75%.  Investment 812.75/share.
Profit announcement expected 9th February with exdiv expected 14th February.
Last years div this period was 69.0/share fully franked.

rozella


----------



## mime (12 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I recently got the dividend for NAB then I sold the stock. It was like I got free money. The banks usually drop after the dividend is given but they do recover within a month or 2.


----------



## rozella (13 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold my last LPT today since exdistributions date, DUE @ 253.0.  Bought 21st December @ 253.0 with a margin of 65%.  Investment 88.55/share.  
Distribution 13.5/share zero franked.
Gross profit 13.5/share = 15.24% return on investment.  23 day trade.

rozella


----------



## rozella (13 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold one parcel of TEN today @ 438.0   Bought 20th December @ 438.0 with a margin of 70%.
Investment 131.4/share.  Div 12.5share fully franked 5.357/share
Gross profit 17.857/share = 13.59% return on investment.

Re-entered WDC today @ 1697.0 with a margin of 75%.  Investment 424.25/share.

Also re-entered another parcel of WDC @ 1699.0 with a margin of 75%.  
Investment 424.75/share.
Profit announcement expected in Feb with exdiv date approx 17th Feb

Bought another parcel of CBA today @ 3247.0 with a margin of 75%.  
Investment 811.75/share.
Profit announcement expected 9th Feb with exdiv 14th Feb

rozella


----------



## rozella (13 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold my last parcel of TEN today @ 440.0  Bought 10th December @ 435.0 with a margin of 70%  Investment 130.5/share.  Div 12.5/share fully franked 5.357/share
Gross profit 22.857/share = 17.51% return on investment.  34 day trade.

rozella


----------



## crashy (13 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

bought EUR last night 1.3107 on a breakout. Sold 1.3155 gross profit 47. 36% return on investment. 19 minute trade.

Should have gone to bed with breakeven stop and woken up 260 pips ahead. Oh well.

:


----------



## Warren Buffet II (13 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Sold my last parcel of TEN today @ 440.0  Bought 10th December @ 435.0 with a margin of 70%  Investment 130.5/share.  Div 12.5/share fully franked 5.357/share
> Gross profit 22.857/share = 17.51% return on investment.  34 day trade.
> 
> rozella




Rozella can you please explain your numbers to me I do not get them or you are missing some stuff.

Eg:

Initial investment: $10000
Initial Share price: 435.0 = $4.35

Number of shares bought ~ 2299 shares

Dividend paid: $287.375
Sell price: 440.0 = $4.40
Return from sale: $10115.6

So, return = $10115.6 + $287.375 = $10402.975

Profit $10000/$$10402.975 = 0.9612 then (1 - 0.9612) * 100 = 3.88% return

I do not understand much the margin account stuff. Can you please explain that to me? Are you showing in you info how much you pay for your margin account? do you knwo how much it affects your profit?

Additionally, are you considering any tax implication, if you are in the 30% bracket your profit will go down to 2.716% and then you have to add the brokage fee, let say you pay 23.95 per transaction, so profit will be with tax around 2.40%.

Thanks in advanced,


----------



## rozella (13 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				Warren Buffet II said:
			
		

> Rozella can you please explain your numbers to me I do not get them or you are missing some stuff.
> 
> Eg:
> 
> ...




I always show the profit as a gross profit, but I will do it with brokerage & interest below.

with your example:
Buy 2299 shares of TEN @ 435.0 = $10000.65
Marginlender lends 70%             = $7000.45
Our money 30%                        = $3000.20 (our investment)

Dividend 2299 x 12.5                  = $287.37
Franking credit                          = $123.16

Sell 2299 shares x 440.0             = $ 10115.60
Profit on trade 10115.60-10000.65 = $114.95
Total gross profit 
$287.37 + $123.16 + $114.95       = $ 525.48
Gross return on investment          = 525.48/3000.20 = 17.51%

Brokerage 2 x $33                       =$66
Interest @ 8.15%p.a
for 34 days on $7000.45               = $53.14

Net Profit  525.48 - 66.00 - 53.14  = $406.34
Net return on investment              = 13.54%

Re tax: If you make profits you have to pay tax, that is another issue. 

rozella


----------



## Warren Buffet II (14 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Rozella,

Thank you very much for that explanation, it is very clear for me now.

Keep posting

Regards


----------



## rozella (14 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought CRG today @ 979.0 with a margin of 65%.  Investment 342.65/share.  
Profit announcement expected approx 2nd Feb with exdiv approx 16th Feb.  Last years div this period was 30.0 fully franked.

rozella


----------



## rozella (17 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold a parcel today of WDC @ 1740.0   Bought on 13th January @ 1697.0 with a margin of 75%.  Investment 424.25/share.
Gross profit 43.0/share = 10.13% return on investment.  4 day trade.

Sold another parcel today of WDC @ 1740.0.  Bought on 13th January @ 1699.0 with a margin of 75%.  Investment 424.75/share.
Gross profit 41.0/share = 9.65% return on investment.   4 day trade.

rozella


----------



## Tric (17 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

rozella,
good gain on your WDC with it being a short time frame profit (chart shows good bull run too).

This conts to be a very interesting thread and I think the way you have presented your trades in explaining the process is great.

thanks again,


----------



## rozella (17 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thanks Tric,

This is the 2nd round of trades with WDC on the lead up to the profit announcement.....bit of a gamble period atm, so I take the profits as we go, & will re-enter on a pullback.

rozella


----------



## rozella (18 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold DJW today on the open @ 378.0  Bought on 11th January @ 365.0 with a margin of 70%.  Investment 109.5/share.  Profit announcement around 4th Feb.  Div last year was 10.0 fully franked.
Gross profit 13.0/share = 11.87% return on investment.

rozella


----------



## rozella (18 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered WDC today with 2 separate parcels @ 1721.0 with a margin of 75%.
Investment 430.25/share.  Profit announcement expected in February.

rozella


----------



## Tric (19 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



> posted by rozella: This is the 2nd round of trades with WDC on the lead up to the profit announcement.....bit of a gamble period atm, so I take the profits as we go, & will re-enter on a pullback.




I like the way you showed that, protecting profit & capital, and you were spot on about the pullback.  Good example of experience & skill = very classy I think.


----------



## rozella (19 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought AWC yesterday @ 617.0 with a margin of 70%.  Investment 185.1/share.
Profit announcement expected around 28th Jan & exdiv around 3rd Feb.  Last years div was 10.0/share fully franked.

Tric, I jumped back in on WDC a bit too early in hindsight.

rozella


----------



## rozella (19 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought OST  today @ 279.8 with a margin of 65%   Investment 97.93/share.
Profit report expected early February.  Last years dividend was 5.0/share fully franked.

Bought BLD today @ 719.0 with a margin of 70%  Investment 215.7/share fully franked.
Profit report expected early February.  Last years dividend 14.0/share fully franked.

Re-entered DJW today @ 368.16 with a margin of 70%  Investment 110.45/share.
Profit report expected early February.  Last years dividend 10.0/share fully franked.

Sold JBM today on the close @ 472.0   Bought 12th January @ 455.0 with a margin of 50%
Investment 227.5/share.  
Gross profit 17.0/share = 7.47% return on investment.  7 day trade.  
2nd trade on JBM this month.  I will re-enter given the right situation.

rozella


----------



## rozella (20 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought PPX today @ 470.0 with a margin of 70%.  Investment 141.0/share.
Profit report expected the end of February.  Last years div was 13.5/share zero franked.

rozella


----------



## rozella (21 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of WDC today @ 1684.0 with a margin of 75%.  
Investment 421.0/share.  Profit announcement expected in February.

rozella


----------



## rozella (25 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold a parcel of WDC today @ 1730.0  Bought on 21st January @ 1684.0 with a 75% margin.  Investment 421.0/share.  
Gross profit 46.0/share = 10.92% return on investment.  4 day trade.

AWC, BLD, & CRG managed to head north again, .....good gains with BLD & CRG, so I will stay with them another day & see what happens.

rozella


----------



## rozella (27 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Just come back from golf to see lots of green arrows, so re-entered WDC @ 1730.0 with a margin of 75% ( maybe wrong move "U" seller just entered @ 1730.0)  
Investment 432.5/share.

rozella


----------



## Bodhi2500 (27 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,
             I was wondering if you could please explain some elements of your posts?

1730 = ?
margin of 75% = ?
Investment 432.5/share =? 

Thankyou






			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Just come back from golf to see lots of green arrows, so re-entered WDC @ 1730.0 with a margin of 75% ( maybe wrong move "U" seller just entered @ 1730.0)
> Investment 432.5/share.
> 
> rozella


----------



## rozella (27 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Bodhi2500,

Buy price of WDC was 1730.0  or $17.30/share
I say a margin of 75%, but it is really the LVR given to that stock by the marginlender.

Example: 

Buy 3000 WDC @ 1730.0                       = $51900.00
LVR is 75% with most marginlenders
so the marginlender puts up 75%             = $38925.00
& you put up 25%                                 = $12975.00

Therefore your investment is $12975.00
or 25% of the share price = 432.5 or $4.325/share

My marginlender is 8.15% p.a. so therefore the borrowed part ($38925.00) will cost $8.69 per day.

Cheers,

rozella


----------



## mime (27 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

$8.69 per day??

Isn't that alot?


----------



## rozella (27 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				mime said:
			
		

> $8.69 per day??
> 
> Isn't that alot?




WDC rose 14 cents today, 
so on the example, that is a rise of 3000 x $0.14 = $420.00 - $8.69 = $411.31

Without marginlending using the same invested amount ($12975.00)
This would only buy 750 WDC 
Therefore 750 x $0.14 = $105.00 in comparison.

rozella


----------



## Warren Buffet II (27 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,

Do you use any stop losses  technique? How do you set it up with a Margin Leading strategic?

Regards


----------



## rozella (27 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				Warren Buffet II said:
			
		

> Hi Rozella,
> 
> Do you use any stop losses  technique? How do you set it up with a Margin Leading strategic?
> 
> Regards




Yes, the stoploss is the key to protect your capital.....it is easier for me to direct you to my website on the trading diary pages which will explain my stoploss rules & examples 

Trading Diary 1 

Trading Diary 2 

The marginlending is just a way of financing the purchase & does not affect the stoploss.

rozella


----------



## Warren Buffet II (27 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> G'day Bodhi2500,
> 
> Buy price of WDC was 1730.0  or $17.30/share
> I say a margin of 75%, but it is really the LVR given to that stock by the marginlender.
> ...





Hi Rozella,

I asked the question before because if you are running your investments with your own capital will be more flexible with the stoploss you use.

Eg:

As your previous example:

3000 WDC @ 1730.0

Let say this share drops 3% = 1678.1

that will give you a loss of around 12.06%

If you are running with your own capital a drop of 3% will give you a loss of around the same percentage, so you are more susceptible because of the risk you have. 

So, what I am saying here is that a 3% stoploss with a 75% ML will give you a 12% real loss. 

Do you think a 10% or 12% stoploss for own capital is reasonable? Do you have different stoplosses for different kind of shares?

Regards,


----------



## rozella (27 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Your calculations are right Warren Buffet II, marginlending magnifies losses as well as wins, but you can't win on every trade.  With a good strategy you will have more wins than losses.  Marginlending just gives you the opportunity to have more in the market, but obviously it must be a winning strategy.

With the stoploss it does not matter per share whether you have marginlending or not.  3% of 1730.0 is 51.9/share.  Its just with marginlending you would have a bigger quantity.

The idea is to have a few more rules.  My maximum held in any one stock is 15% of the total portfolio, so if my stoploss is 3% per stock, then my total risk on the portfolio is 0.45%

I think 10% or 12% of the purchase price is far too much using the dividend strategy.

rozella


----------



## Warren Buffet II (28 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Your calculations are right Warren Buffet II, marginlending magnifies losses as well as wins, but you can't win on every trade.  With a good strategy you will have more wins than losses.  Marginlending just gives you the opportunity to have more in the market, but obviously it must be a winning strategy.
> 
> With the stoploss it does not matter per share whether you have marginlending or not.  3% of 1730.0 is 51.9/share.  Its just with marginlending you would have a bigger quantity.
> 
> ...




Rozella, thanks for your reply. It is as always very constructive.

I have some more questions for you:

1) As you said, stoploss is the key to protect your capital, do you have any "profit taken" strategy?. What I mean here is:

Eg

Let say 2 day trade without ML.
Buy 1000 ANZ @ 2000.0
Div = 54/share
Profit could be $27 = 2.7% (Buy price = sell price without fees)

So in this case you are targeting a 2.7% profit. Now what if the share price rises 3% or 5%. Do you sell or wait to get the dividends? Any suggestions?

I know the question is a bit open and it has many variable but I really would like to know what you think.

Regards,


----------



## rozella (28 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Warren Buffet II, 

This market is very good, & every now & again it has a rest, & a stock like ANZ does not rise 2% every day, so on the lead up to the dividend, I like to take profits if the stock has risen an amount approx equal to the dividend if it hesitates, then wait for the rest day & go back in.  I do not have any formula for this, it is purely discretionary.  The exercise is to strip the dividend, so if I can do this 3 or 4 times with the one stock, then I am happy.

Of course the brokerage plays a part & it depends whether it is a negligible amount or not.

In a bear market, you don't usually have the luxury of making much in trading profits, so you are purely stripping the dividend, sometimes not making the full dividend because it may be more fruitful to sell at less than you bought it for & move onto the next deal.  When in a bear market I trade as I have shown on my website, the cycles are longer & don't sell until the stoploss is hit, but it still profitable & regular.  The website trading took a hit last week & 17 trades hit their stoploss levels, but it is still showing approx 48% return in the last 205 days after brokerage & interest.

Hope this is of some help.

rozella


----------



## rozella (31 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought PTD on Friday 28th January @ 184.0 with a margin of 50%.
Investment 92.0/share.  exdiv 8th February, div 8.0/share fully franked.
I am not that comfortable with this one & will exit before exdiv or stoploss of 178.0, whichever is sooner.

rozella


----------



## rozella (31 January 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Took profits on 2 parcels of CBA today.
Sold both @ 3357.0

Bought 1st parcel on 12th January @ 3251.0 with a margin of 75%.  
Investment 812.75/share
Gross profit 106.0/share = 13.04% return on investment.  19 day trade

Bought 2nd parcel on 13th January @ 3247.0 with a margin of 75%.
Investment 811.75/share
Gross profit 110. /share = 13.55% return on investment.  18 day trade

Before re-entering, see what happens after the RBA announces interest rates on Wednesday.

rozella


----------



## rozella (1 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold OST today @ 286.0  Bought on 19th January @ 279.8 with a margin of 65%
Investment 97.93/share.  Last years div was 5.0/share, should report approx 5th Feb.
Gross profit 6.2/share = 6.33% return on investment.  13 day trade

rozella


----------



## rozella (1 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold PTD today on the close @ 190.0 (thought I might get 191.0).  Bought on 28th January @ 184.0 with a margin of 50%.  Investment 92.0/share.  
Goes exdiv 8th Feb, div 8.0/share fully franked.
Gross profit 6.0/share = 6.52% return on investment.  4 day trade.

rozella


----------



## Warren Buffet II (1 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Sold PTD today on the close @ 190.0 (thought I might get 191.0).  Bought on 28th January @ 184.0 with a margin of 50%.  Investment 92.0/share.
> Goes exdiv 8th Feb, div 8.0/share fully franked.
> Gross profit 6.0/share = 6.52% return on investment.  4 day trade.
> 
> rozella




Rozella,

Are you changing some of your strategic here? I have seen too many exits these days without picking up the divds? Any thoughts?

Regards,


----------



## rozella (1 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Warren Buffet II



> Are you changing some of your strategic here? I have seen too many exits these days without picking up the divds? Any thoughts?




This is section 1 of my strategy if you are referring to OST & section 2 if you are referring to PTD.  I find it is easier to earn some trading profits first as they appear....at least I have that, then on a pullback I can re-enter maybe for some more or stay in for the dividend.  There is only so much trading capital, so I try to take the quickest route to the most dollars in the shortest amount of time. 

There are a lot of stocks ready to report atm, so there is no shortage of opportunities.

rozella


----------



## rozella (2 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought GUD today @ 777.0 with a margin of 65%   Investment 271.95/share.
Exdiv 21st Feb, div declared 23.0 fully franked 9.857/share.

Bought another parcel of AWC today @ 610.0 with a margin of 70%  
Investment 183.0/share.  Exdiv 7th Feb, div declared 10.0/share 75% franked.
Looking to take what profit if any that I can, & exit before exdiv day.  stoploss 592.0.

Sold DJW today @ 379.08.  Bought 19th January @ 368.16 with a margin of 70%  
Investment 110.448/share.  Should be reporting soon.  Last years div was 10.0/share fully franked.  It is difficult trading low volume stocks, there was only approx 42,000 traded & I wanted to sell 6000, & I eventually sold 238 @ 381.0 at 11:54am & waited until 13:50pm to sell the balance of 5762 @ 379.0 when there was enough on the buy side......but looks like a build up of buyers since.
Gross profit 10.92/share = 9.89% return on investment.  22 day trade.  2nd trade 

rozella


----------



## rozella (3 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered OST today @ 282.0 with a margin of 65%. Investment 98.7/share.
Last years dividend was 5.0/share fully franked 2.14/share & is expected to report very shortly.

rozella


----------



## Warren Buffet II (3 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Bought another parcel of AWC today @ 610.0 with a margin of 70%
> Investment 183.0/share.  Exdiv 7th Feb, div declared 10.0/share 75% franked.
> Looking to take what profit if any that I can, & exit before exdiv day.  stoploss 592.0.
> 
> rozella




Hi Rozella,

I have been following AWC for a while and I found a bit disappointing that they have decreased their dividends from the 10.0/share 100% franked to 10.0/share 75% franked being a company in the commodity industry which is supposed to be booming (Maybe aluminiun is not booming that much). I have seen from that day the price to decrease from 6.25 ..something to around 5.98 today. So my question here is do you take into consideration this kind of information when buying any stock or you just stick to the formula of divds?
I know the answer is yes but I would like to know how?


Regards,


----------



## rozella (3 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Warren Buffet II,

I sometimes read those statistics, just to have an overall view, but price of the stock is my main indicator.

Tomorrow is the last day before exdiv, so if there is no action then, well a decision has to be made.

Here is an article in the SMH this morning....if it asks you to register, its free.

Higher costs fail to dent Alumina profit 

rozella


----------



## DTM (3 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,

Thought this thread might of interest to you.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6934&postcount=25

Cheers

Daniel


----------



## Bodhi2500 (3 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,
Thanks for replying to my previous questions, there is another aspect of your posts that I’m not quite understanding.
You say one of your criteria for selecting a stock is > “The highlighted stocks must meet my criteria which is simply stocks in uptrend that show a yield of better than 10% for the dividend declared/expected plus the franking credit over the investment outlayed.”
Is the ‘10%’ based off the dividend yield, Div/Shr or something else?
Thanks.


----------



## rozella (4 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				Bodhi2500 said:
			
		

> Hi Rozella,
> Thanks for replying to my previous questions, there is another aspect of your posts that I’m not quite understanding.
> You say one of your criteria for selecting a stock is > “The highlighted stocks must meet my criteria which is simply stocks in uptrend that show a yield of better than 10% for the dividend declared/expected plus the franking credit over the investment outlayed.”
> Is the ‘10%’ based off the dividend yield, Div/Shr or something else?
> Thanks.




Its a formula to compare all the stocks to see which would return the most, so that it can be put on your watchlist.......other criteria may dismiss it.

Take TLS for example (we assume the div will be the same as last year)

Last price (3rd Feb)  507.0
expected div             13.0
franking credit            5.57
LVR (margin lending)    75%

Borrowed amount 507.0 x 0.75 = 380.25
Our investment    507.0 x 0.25 = 126.75

(div + fc) / investment
(13.0 + 5.57) / 126.75 = 0.1465 or 14.65%

So 14.65% is over 10%, so it is worthy of going onto our watchlist......from then on it is subject to your usual trading criteria.

It is nothing more than a comparison, whether you use the franking credit in the formula or not, it is up to you......provided that you do it the same for all.

rozella


----------



## rozella (4 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				DTM said:
			
		

> Hi Rozella,
> 
> Thought this thread might of interest to you.
> 
> ...




The good thing about the market is that it has a niche for everybody.....I have been making good $$$'s from my current strategy for a few years now & are loathe to change.  I guess you do best what you know best.  I have tried & backtested various add-ons to enhance the returns & risk, but I am more comfortable keeping it simple as I am doing.

If money tree, wayneL & yourself are making a motza this way, then thats great.....keep it up.

I would like to see some of these trades posted as you buy & sell, so that others can benifit from your knowledge.

rozella


----------



## rozella (4 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought WAN today @ 872.0 with a margin of 70%   Investment 261.6/share.
Exdiv 11th March.  Div 20.0/share fully franked 8.57/share.

rozella


----------



## rozella (4 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold 1 parcel of AWC on the close today @ 595.0   Bought 2nd February @ 610.0 with a margin of 70%  Investment 183.0/share  Exdiv Monday 7th Feb.
Gross loss 15.0/share = 8.19% loss on investment

Sold GUD on the close today @ 758.0  Bought 2nd February @ 777.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 271.95/share.  Exdiv Monday 21st Feb.
Gross loss 19.0/share = 6.98% loss on investment

Bought ADB today @ 1099.0 with a margin of 70%  Investment 329.7/share.
Exdiv 7th March

rozella


----------



## rozella (8 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold some dead wood today.....ARP.  1st trade was profitable but this one was bought 5th November 04 @ 431.0 with a margin of 50%.  Investment 215.5/share.
Dividend paid 20.0/share fully franked 8.57/share.  exdiv was 15th November.
Sold today @ 375.0 to fund another purchase.
Gross loss 27.43/share = 12.73% loss on investment.  96 day trade (far too long)

Bought CBA on the close today @ 3443.0 with a margin of 75%.  
Investment 860.75/share.  Profit announcement expected 9th Feb (tomorrow) 
exdiv day expected 14th February.  Last years div was 79.0/share fully franked.

Bought another parcel of BLD today @ 679.0 with a margin of 70%.
Investment 203.7/share.  exdiv on 23rd Feb, div 17.0/share fully franked, although will sell this parcel prior to exdiv date.

rozella


----------



## Warren Buffet II (8 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Bought CBA on the close today @ 3443.0 with a margin of 75%.
> Investment 860.75/share.  Profit announcement expected 9th Feb (tomorrow)
> exdiv day expected 14th February.  Last years div was 79.0/share fully franked.
> 
> rozella




I have checked some comments about this CBA divd and they are expecting a 85.0/share fully franked, I expect a 87.0/share fully franked. Let's wait until tomorrow to se what happens.


----------



## rozella (8 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				Warren Buffet II said:
			
		

> I have checked some comments about this CBA divd and they are expecting a 85.0/share fully franked, I expect a 87.0/share fully franked. Let's wait until tomorrow to se what happens.




Lets hope your info is right WBII, I always use last years just as a guide until something concrete has been announced by the company......I'm sure it will increase, but by how much ?......as you said we will know tomorrow, & they usually report before open.

rozella


----------



## Warren Buffet II (9 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				Warren Buffet II said:
			
		

> I have checked some comments about this CBA divd and they are expecting a 85.0/share fully franked, I expect a 87.0/share fully franked. Let's wait until tomorrow to se what happens.




CBA 85.0/share fully franked. That is nice as I have kept my investmetn in CBA since the beginning of the year, I bought it for 32.22.


----------



## rozella (9 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				Warren Buffet II said:
			
		

> CBA 85.0/share fully franked. That is nice as I have kept my investmetn in CBA since the beginning of the year, I bought it for 32.22.




Easy money WBII, ......if only CBA would behave like that every dividend period !!......up 133.0 today.....I must say I was tempted to sell.

rozella


----------



## Warren Buffet II (10 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Easy money WBII, ......if only CBA would behave like that every dividend period !!......up 133.0 today.....I must say I was tempted to sell.
> 
> rozella




Rozella,

It looks like dejavu today. 

Regards,


----------



## rozella (10 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Just arrived back from golf for a pleasant surprise.....CBA up 144.0 atm.

rozella


----------



## rozella (11 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold CBA today @ 3700.0 before exdiv.   Bought on 8th February @ 3443.0 with a margin of 75%.  Investment 860.75/share.
Gross profit 257.0/share = 29.85% return on investment.  3 day trade.

Bought TLS on the close today with the above proceeds @ 527.0 with a margin of 75%.
Investment 131.75/share.    Exdiv 24th March with a div of 20.0/share fully franked 8.57/share.

Bought  HIL on 9th February @ 430.0 with a margin of 65%.  Investment 150.5/share.
Exdiv 9th March with a div of 12.0/share fully franked. 

rozella


----------



## buzzlightyear (14 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Has anyone used this connection between dividends & share price though trading options?


----------



## dracula (15 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi rozella,

I try to go on your website and it comes up with an error. Is the site down, or my computer playing up again? thx

dracula


----------



## rozella (15 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				dracula said:
			
		

> Hi rozella,
> 
> I try to go on your website and it comes up with an error. Is the site down, or my computer playing up again? thx
> 
> dracula





G'day dracula,

Yes it is down atm.....I'm becoming frustrated.  The host server is having problems & makes lots of promises, but......  It was up for part of today with old data from October which is old news.

Not much I can do atm....down 2 nights now.  I will have to apply pressure tomorrow.

rozella


----------



## dracula (16 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi rozella,

what's your view on QAN?


----------



## rozella (16 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day dracula,

QAN reports tomorrow as you probably know.  It is boxed on my exdividendwatchlist which means that based on last years dividend + franking credit as a percentage of todays price using marginlending is greater than 10%, therefore it goes onto my "todays prospects watchlist".

It will depend on the report tomorrow, mainly the outlook for the future, & if the profit has increased & the dividend has increased......well... then toss a coin.

The chart shows a slow incline......I did not want to buy it until the report comes out.  stocks are becoming a bit unpredictable, so its time to start sticking more rigidly to the rules, besides I am playing golf in the local comp in the morning & won't be back until midday + its our wedding anniversary.

rozella


----------



## dracula (17 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Happy anniversary rozella 

you're patience paid off, QAN it's still going down.
I am following your trades and so far your strategy is very successful. 
dracula


----------



## rozella (17 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thanks dracula,

22 stocks have declared a dividend today so far....lots of work to do.

rozella


----------



## dracula (17 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I wasn't in the market @ Sep 11 

do you remember
what was the average drop?
how long did it take for the stocks to recover?
thx


----------



## rozella (17 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I sold almost everything within a few days before the American market re-opened, then bought back in 100% within the next couple of weeks.  October 2001 is still my most profitable month ever.

It was 12th Sept for us.

XAO 11th Sept 2001  3183.2
       12th                3051.3
       13th                3069.4
       14th                3040.8
       17th                2895.4
       18th                2948.5
keeps going down, as we had Ansett collapse as well.
jump to 28th            2988.0
       3rd Oct 2001     3061.5
       10th                3073.7
       17th                3170.0
       24th                3182.1
       31st                3185.3
       30th Nov 2001   3276.9
       31st Dec 2001   3359.9
Today 17th Feb 2005 4155.0

rozella


----------



## Warren Buffet II (18 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,

If a company declares no divids, does the company still go CD and XD?

Regards,

WBII


----------



## rozella (18 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				Warren Buffet II said:
			
		

> Hi Rozella,
> 
> If a company declares no divids, does the company still go CD and XD?
> 
> ...




Its not applicable & usually says so on the report

rozella


----------



## rozella (22 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

It is a busy period....not much time for posting.

Bought JBM 15th Feb @ 542.0 with a margin of 50%.  Investment 271.0/share.
Sold 18th Feb @ 572.0 (day before exdiv)
Gross profit 30.0/share = 11.07% return on investment.

Bought QAN on 18th Feb on the close @ 350.0 with a margin of 70%.  Investment 105.0/share.
exdiv 3rd March, div 10.0/share fully franked 4.29/share.

Bought CRG on 31st Jan @ 970.0 with a margin of 65%.  Investment 339.5/share.
Sold 15th Feb @ 940.0  (exdiv 21st Feb)
Gross loss 30.0/share = 8.83% loss on investment.

Bought ASX on 15th Feb on the open @  2170.0.  Investment 651.0/share.
Exdiv 24th Feb, div 44.2/share fully franked 18.94/share.

Bought HIL 9th Feb @ 430.0 with a margin of 65%.  Investment 150.5/share.
Exdiv 8th March, div 12.0/share fully franked 5.14/share
Sold on 15th Feb @ 441.0
Gross profit 11.0/share = 7.31% return on investment
Re-entered HIL on 18th Feb @ 431.0 with a margin of 65%.  Investment 150.85/share.

rozella


----------



## rozella (25 February 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought AGL yesterday on the close @ 1395.0 with a margin of 70%.  Investment 418.5/share.  Exdiv 7th March

rozella


----------



## rozella (2 March 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold HIL today @ 443.0   Bought on the close 28th Feb @ 430.0 with a margin of 65%. Investment 150.5/share.   Exdiv 8th March, div 12.0/share fully franked.
Gross profit 13.0/share = 8.63% return on investment.   2 day trade.  
2nd trade before exdiv.....1st was 11.0/share GP

rozella


----------



## rozella (2 March 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold TLS today @ 541.0  Bought on 11th Feb @ 527.0 with a margin of 75%.  
Investment 131.75/share.  exdiv 24th March with a div of 20.0 fully franked.
Gross profit 14.0/share = 10.62% return on investment.  19 day trade.

rozella


----------



## rozella (2 March 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of AGL today @ 1431.0 with a margin of 70%.
Investment 429.3/share.  Exdiv 7th March, div 61.0, 90.168% franked 23.57/share.

rozella


----------



## rozella (7 March 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold ADB on the open today (exdiv day) @ 1118.0  Bought on 4th February @ 1099.0 with a margin of 70%.  Investment 329.7/share.  Div 24.0/share fully franked 10.29/share.
Gross profit 53.29/share = 16.16% return on investment.  31 day trade

rozella


----------



## rozella (8 March 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold my last parcel of AWC today @ 617.0  Bought 18th Jan @ 617.0 with a margin of 70%.
Investment 185.1/share  Div 10.0/share 75% franked 3.21/share
Gross profit 13.21/share = 7.13% return on investment.   49 day trade.

rozella


----------



## rozella (9 March 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

re-entered TLS today @ 534.0 with a margin of 75%.  Investment 133.5/share.
Exdiv 24th March with a div of 20.0/share fully franked 8.57/share.

rozella


----------



## rozella (10 March 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of TLS today @ 533.0 with a margin of 75%.  
Investment 133.25/share.  
Exdiv 24th March with a div of 20.0/share fully franked 8.57/share.

rozella


----------



## rozella (17 March 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought SMS today @ 1895.0 on the close with a margin of 70%   Investment 568.5/share.
Exdiv tomorrow 18th March.  Div 70.0/share  franked to 54%.

rozella


----------



## rozella (22 March 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought PMN today @ 499.0 with a margin of 70%.  Investment 149.7/share.
Exdiv 29th March, dividend 12.0/share fully franked 5.14/share.

rozella


----------



## rozella (30 March 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I have done very little this month, only 5 buys.  AGL, 2 X TLS, SMS, & PMN.  (these are already on the thread)

I sold 4 stocks after breaching stoplosses as follows.

Sold WAN @ 823.0 on 23rd March.  Bought @ 872.0 on 4th February with a margin of 70%.
Investment 261.6/share.  div 20.0/share fully franked 8.57/share.
Gross loss 20.43/share = 7.81% loss on investment.

Sold BLD @ 623.0 on 23rd March.  Bought @ 679.0 on 8th February with a margin of 70%.
Investment 203.7/share.  div 17.0/share fully franked 7.28/share.
Gross loss 31.72/share = 15.57% loss on investment.

Sold another parcel of BLD @ 626.0 on 24th March.  Bought @ 719.0 on 19th January with a margin of 70%.  Investment 215.7/share.  div 17.0/share fully franked 7.28/share.
Gross loss 68.72/share = 31.86% loss on investment.....ouch.

Sold SMS @ 1784.0 on 23rd March.  Bought @ 1895.0 on 17th March with a margin of 70%.
Investment 568.5/share.  div 70.0/share 54% franked 16.2/share
Gross loss 24.8/share = 4.36% loss on investment.

I let these all go a bit too far, but not too much damage......still just under 60% return on investment YTD.

rozella


----------



## rozella (2 April 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought APN on 1st April (exdiv day) @ 492.0 with a margin of 70%.  Investment 147.6/share.  Stoploss 477.0

I will be looking for possible entries into the banks & LPT's on the lead up to their announcements.  ANZ being the 1st major.

rozella


----------



## rozella (6 April 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought AGL yesterday @ 1430.0 with a margin of 70%  Investment 429./share.
Return of capital 50.0/share.  Exdistribution date 7th April if approved at todays meeting.

rozella


----------



## rozella (7 April 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought ENV on 6th April @ 115.0 with a margin of 65%  Investment 40.25/share.
Exdistribution date 11th April.  Distribution 3.8/share zero franked

Sold AWB, my longest holding today on the close @ 497.0, which has spanned two dividends totalling 25.0/share 100% franked 10.71/share.  
Bought 9th June 2004 @ 493.28 with a margin of 70%   Investment 147.98
Gross profit 39.43/share = 26.64% return on investment.   302 days
(not the best return for the length of time)

rozella


----------



## TjamesX (7 April 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Does it get lonely in here rozella?...... echoo ..echo. cho..oo

Now I'm just being cheeky  , I think it is great that someone posts all their trades along with their strategy...Good Stuff

I have a question for you - I have owned WAM (Wilson Asset Management - LIC) for a few months and it has gone nowhere.... No biggie. But its ex div date is coming up in a few days (14th I believe) and this one pays out pretty big 6c on a price of $1.56 (on full year divs its about 7% yield). I was planning to sell these after they go ex div - but now I'm wondering whether to maybe I should add some more to take advantage of the sluggish SP.

I am fully expecting a drop after ex div date...... but historically WAM has traded at a premium to its NTA - currently its at a slight discount to NTA (from last months figures)

Good Value for the short term div????

TJ


----------



## rozella (7 April 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day TjamesX,

I'm used to nobody talking to me......

Yes, WAM goes exdiv on the 14th & has been going sideways for awhile.  Its off my radar as the volumes are not that great & the best margin I can get is only 50%.  In the last 10 days 23 trades was the biggest day & 2 days there were no trades at all.

I finally have someone to talk to & I have nothing much to say.

Good dividend though.

Sorry can't add much to that.

rozella


----------



## Stan 101 (7 April 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I'm listening... keep posting


I just have nothing worthwhile to respond with


----------



## DTM (7 April 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> G'day TjamesX,
> 
> I'm used to nobody talking to me......
> 
> ...




Sorry Rozella, always reading but nothing worthwhile to add.  Enjoy your thread though...   

Keep up the good posts


----------



## rozella (8 April 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thanks DTM & Stan 101

Bought ANZ today @ 2085.0 with a margin of 75%   Investment 521.25/share.
Profit announcement expected 27th April with exdiv date expected 16th May.  Last years dividend was 47.0/share fully franked 20.14/share.

Good day, all my stocks on the move upwards.

rozella


----------



## markrmau (8 April 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,

Can you please give a brief explanation of your strategy? Or do you have a link to it?


----------



## rozella (8 April 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				markrmau said:
			
		

> Hi Rozella,
> 
> Can you please give a brief explanation of your strategy? Or do you have a link to it?




G'day markrmau,

The link is exdividendwatchlist but briefly, the idea is to buy the stock, collect the dividend, then sell at buy price or better.  Normal trading rules apply for risk management & stoploss.  I use a 3% trailing stoploss on each stock.  My ideal portfolio is a minimum of 10 stocks & maximum of 15, with no stock having a greater holding of 15% of portfolio.  i.e. if a large holding of 15% was to drop to stoploss level, then it would only be 0.45% of portfolio.

You can follow the trades & calculations on my website under Trading Diary & Margin Trading.  I have used end of day data on the website so that it can be easily verified.  Since the market has become a little more volatile, I have been updating the website buys & sells daily.  It will be up-to-date prior to 7.00pm AEST tonight.....atm yesterday is there. 

The website portfolio took a bit of a hit during March & were stopped out many times, however, we are still up 51.24% return on investment for the last 281 days from 1st July 2004, after today we will probably be approx up 55%.......we were in the low 60% range.

rozella


----------



## rozella (19 April 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Started buying into the LPT's today.

Bought SGP today @ 570.0 with a margin of 70%. Investment 171.0/share.
Profit announcement expected 17th June with exdist expected 24th June. 
Last years distribution was 19.0/share franked to 21.579%

Bought CNP today @ 519.0 with a margin of 70%. Investment 155.7/share.
Profit announcement expected 21st June with exdist expected 24th June.
Announcement today expects dist to be 17.4/share zero franked.

Bought GAN today @ 155.0 with a margin of 70%. Investment 46.5/share.
Profit announcement expected 21st June with exdist expected 24th June.
Last years distribution was 5.06/share zero franked.

rozella


----------



## rozella (20 April 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought DRT today @ 127.91 with a margin of 70%  Investment 38.37/share.
Profit announcement expected 21st June with exdist expected 24th June. 
This period last year the trusts had not merged (DDF, DOT, & DIT), but I expect the distribution to be around 5.1 to 5.3 per unit zero franked.  June was 5.2

Bought SGB today @ 2390.0 with a margin of 75%   Investment 597.50/share.
Profit announcement expected 3rd May  with exdiv date expected 14th June.
Last years dividend was 60.0/share fully franked.

rozella


----------



## rozella (21 April 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of CNP today @ 516.0 with a margin of 70%  
Investment 154.8/share.  
Profit announcement expected 21st June with exdist expected 24th June.
Announcement on 19th April expects dist to be 17.4/share zero franked.

Down overall today atm, but hardly a blip.

rozella


----------



## RichKid (21 April 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,

Great thread, and very diligent record keeping by you too!!

Does your strategy mean that for some periods of the year you don't trade at all? or are there always co's doing ex div out there? As I understand it you should at least get a few months break once the bulk of the exdiv dates are past. Never occurred to me that there would be a continuing reporting period, I guess there are a lot of co's out there. But I expect your margin system means that you wouldn't be able to borrow for all stocks.

BTW For those who are interested, I had a look at Crashy's site to see how the tax on div's works, he has some free sample examples http://www.posigear.8k.com/ Not a plug for Crashy, just found the strategy interesting, I'll probably have to check the tax rules to see if they are accurate though as the ATO changes things all the time.
I get a bit confused with franking and grossing up etc but will have to work it out properly soon. 

Checked out your website Rozella, looks great! BTW, what are those blue boxes around the figures in your watchlist?


----------



## rozella (21 April 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day RichKid,



> Does your strategy mean that for some periods of the year you don't trade at all? or are there always co's doing ex div out there? As I understand it you should at least get a few months break once the bulk of the exdiv dates are past. Never occurred to me that there would be a continuing reporting period, I guess there are a lot of co's out there.



Normally at this time I am working my way with stocks in various parts of the strategy cycle, however most were stopped out in the last couple of weeks, but that was to be expected.  So now I am buying into section 1 of the strategy, which is prior to the profit announcement for some of the banks & LPT's.  ANZ is the 1st to report on 27th April, which is next Wednesday, so then it starts all over again.



> But I expect your margin system means that you wouldn't be able to borrow for all stocks.



I only trade those stocks that I can have an LVR of 60% or better, usually 70% or 75%



> BTW, what are those blue boxes around the figures in your watchlist?



They are the prospects that have met with the 1st bit of criteria.....i.e the sum of the dividend & franking credit divided by the investment amount must be over 10% to go onto my daily prospect list.....from then on its normal trading criteria rules for the final selections.

An hour in the market can change results dramatically.....my previous post said 







> Down overall today atm, but hardly a blip.



Well this changed to a nice profitable day.

rozella


----------



## rozella (22 April 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought WBC today @1845.0 with a margin of 75%   Investment 461.25/share.
Profit announcement expected 5th May with exdiv date expected 1st June.
Last years dividend was 42.0/share fully franked.

rozella


----------



## rozella (27 April 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

ANZ reported today & I bought another parcel on the open @ 2063.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 515.75/share.  Dividend declared today 51.0/share fully franked 21.857/share
Exdiv date 16th May.

rozella


----------



## rozella (27 April 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold ANZ in previous post @ 2114.0 today.  Bought @ 2063.0 with a margin of 75%.
Investment 515.75/share.
Gross profit 51.0/share = 9.89% return on investment.  0.5 day trade
Wait for another entry

rozella


----------



## rozella (29 April 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Its been a good week for me although the market overall is looking sad.  LPT's & banks are up.

Sold 3 parcels of AGL today
1. sold AGL @ 1430.0  Bought 22nd February @ 1395.0 with a 70% margin.  
Investment 418.75/share.  Exdiv 7th march, div 61.0/share 90.168% franked 23.57/share,
return of capital 50.0/share.
Gross profit 169.57/share = 40.49%  66 days

2. sold AGL @ 1431.0  Bought 2nd March @ 1431.0 with a 70% margin.  
Investment 429.3/share.  Exdiv 7th march, div 61.0/share 90.168% franked 23.57/share,
return of capital 50.0/share.
Gross profit 134.57/share = 31.34%  58 days

3. sold AGL @ 1430.0  Bought 5th April @ 1430.0 with a 70% margin.  
Investment 429.0/share.  
return of capital 50.0/share.
Gross profit 50.0/share = 11.65%  24 days

rozella


----------



## rozella (29 April 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought WBC today @ 1939.0 with a margin of 75%  Investment 484.75/share.
Profit announcement expected 5th May.  Last years div was 42.0/share fully franked 18.0

Bought SGB on the close @ 2475.0 with a margin of 75%  Investment 618.75/share.
Profit announcement expected 3rd May.  Last years div was 60.0/share fully franked 25.71

rozella


----------



## rozella (2 May 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of DRT today @ 130.0 with a margin of 70%  Investment 39.0/share
Profit announcement expected 21st June with exdist expected 24th June. 
This period last year the trusts had not merged (DDF, DOT, & DIT), but I expect the distribution to be around 5.1 to 5.3 per unit zero franked. June was 5.2

Bought another parcel of SGP today @ 584.0 with a margin of 70%  Investment 175.2/share
Profit announcement expected 17th June with exdist expected 24th June. 
Last years distribution was 19.0/share franked to 21.579%

rozella


----------



## rozella (3 May 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of GAN today @ 158.0 with a margin of 70%  
Investment 47.4/share.  
Profit announcement expected 21st June with exdist expected 24th June.
Last years distribution was 5.06/share zero franked.

rozella


----------



## rozella (3 May 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought CPA today @ 126.0 with a margin of 70% 
Investment 37.8/share. 
Profit announcement expected 21st June with exdist expected 24th June.
Last years distribution was 4.8/share zero franked.

rozella


----------



## rozella (6 May 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Topsy turvy week again, but finished on a good note today.

Took some profits on banks today.

Sold ANZ @ 2187.0  Bought 8th April @ 2085.0 with a margin of 75% 
Investment 521.25/share.
exdiv date 16th May.  Dividend 51.0/share fully franked 21.85/share.
Gross profit 102.0/share = 19.57% return on investment.  28 day trade.

Sold SGB @ 2495.0  Bought 20th April @ 2390.0 with a margin of 75% 
Investment 597.50/share.
exdiv date 14th June.  Dividend 67.0/share fully franked 28.71/share
Gross profit 105.0/share = 17.57% return on investment.  16 day trade.

Sold WBC @ 1935.0  Bought 22nd April @1845.0 with a margin of 75% 
Investment 461.25/share.
exdiv date 1st June.  Dividend 49.0/share fully franked 21.0/share
Gross profit 90.0/share = 19.51% return on investment.  14 day trade.  

I will re-enter for the div if prices drop back.

rozella


----------



## DTM (7 May 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Topsy turvy week again, but finished on a good note today.
> 
> Took some profits on banks today.
> 
> ...




Nice trades Rozella.  Were you using a strategy of buying before the news or was it purely a dividend play?


----------



## rozella (7 May 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day DTM,

These buys were section 1 of my strategy plus a bit of section 2: 

I believe the Dividend Trading Strategy can be divided into 4 sections.

1.      From now until profit announcement date.
2.      From profit announcement date until exdividend date.
3.      The dividend and franking credit amount.
4.      After the fall on exdividend date until the stock rises to the price you want.

The market is jumping all over the place, so I felt it was best to take the profits while they are there.  I should have done it on 3rd May when SGB announced, in the 1st half hour, but I was asleep or too greedy (the latter I think & missed the boat), the above would have been my second bite then.

Cheers,

rozella


----------



## markrmau (7 May 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

You don't think ANZ has further upside going up to ex div date? Or do you think the banks have had their run. (held anz since approx 2050 at end of march) 

Does seem to be big resistance at 2200 (approached it about 5 times)


----------



## rozella (7 May 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				markrmau said:
			
		

> You don't think ANZ has further upside going up to ex div date? Or do you think the banks have had their run. (held anz since approx 2050 at end of march)
> 
> Does seem to be big resistance at 2200 (approached it about 5 times)



G'day markrmau,

ANZ is the first bank to go exdiv, so as the other banks come closer to their div date, it usually pulls ANZ's price up after exdiv in their slipstream, but don't hold me to that......its happened quite a few times for me in the past that it returns to pre exdiv prices in 2 or 3 days.

Your question, I can't answer......but I hope so.  ANZ usually has a trading range of 30.0 cents daily.  The way the market is behaving lately, I sold at a near high yesterday expecting a slump day by next Wednesday, then I will re-enter......if it does not slump then I will probably re-enter anyway.....I sold because "a bird in the hand......"

NAB reports Wednesday, which is a worry & a mystery atm, so there will be a feast or a famine.....whichever way it should be worth buying back into ANZ, SGB & WBC.....I already hold NAB & it depends on the result whether I dump it pre exdiv.

rozella


----------



## rozella (8 May 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold one parcel DRT on 6th May @ 133.5  Bought 20th April @ 127.91 with a margin of 70% Investment 38.37/share.
Profit announcement expected 21st June with exdist expected 24th June. 
This period last year the trusts had not merged (DDF, DOT, & DIT), but I expect the distribution to be around 5.1 to 5.3 per unit zero franked. June was 5.2
Gross profit 5.59/share = 14.57% return on investment.  16 day trade.

rozella


----------



## rozella (9 May 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered ANZ today @ 2170.0 with a margin of 75%  Investment 542.50/share
exdiv date 16th May. Dividend 51.0/share fully franked 21.85/share.

Re-entered WBC today @ 1910.0 with a margin of 75%  Investment 477.50/share
exdiv date 1st June. Dividend 49.0/share fully franked 21.0/share.

rozella


----------



## rozella (10 May 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold last parcel of DRT today @ 134.0  Bought 2nd May @ 130.0 with a margin of 70% Investment 39.0/share
Profit announcement expected 21st June with exdist expected 24th June. 
This period last year the trusts had not merged (DDF, DOT, & DIT), but I expect the distribution to be around 5.1 to 5.3 per unit zero franked. June was 5.2
Gross profit 4.0/share = 10.25% return on investment.  8 day trade.

Re-entered DRT today @ 131.5 with a margin of 70%  Investment 39.45/share.

Sold CNP today @ 532.0   Bought  21st April @ 516.0 with a margin of 70% 
Investment 154.8/share. 
Profit announcement expected 21st June with exdist expected 24th June.
Announcement on 19th April expects dist to be 17.4/share zero franked.
Gross profit 16.0/share = 10.33% return on investment.  21 day trade.

Re-entered SGB today @ 2474.0 with a margin of 75%  Investment 618.50/share.
exdiv date 14th June. Dividend 67.0/share fully franked 28.71/share

rozella


----------



## rozella (12 May 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Another magic day on the market......back to old times....just watching all our stocks rise.  No buys & no sells......tempted to take profits, but.....

rozella


----------



## rozella (13 May 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Took some more profit today on WBC, being Friday 13th.
Sold @ 1960.0.  
Bought 9th May @ 1910.0 with a margin of 75% Investment 477.50/share
exdiv date 1st June. Dividend 49.0/share fully franked 21.0/share.
Gross profit 50.0/share = 10.47% return on investment

Will do my best to find a low today to re-enter, 1949.0 now as I type.

rozella


----------



## DTM (13 May 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,

Nice trade, but WBC doesn't seem to be that strong a share in my opinion.  Also getting divergence in oscillator and macd.  Could fall further.

 

Then again, I said that about AMP and it has jumped 30 cents in the last few days.


----------



## DTM (13 May 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

And now to follow through on my advice, I bought the May $19.50 puts when 

sp was $19.56 and knowing my luck, it will follow AMP.


----------



## rozella (13 May 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I said the same about AMP too, but it is probably the 40c return on capital that has made it jump....still don't trust it.

WBC has been okay so far, 2 completed trades recently profits of 90.0 + 50.0, but I agree it has not been as good as the others.

Last day to buy ANZ today.....but I have enough.

rozella


----------



## DTM (13 May 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> I said the same about AMP too, but it is probably the 40c return on capital that has made it jump....still don't trust it.
> 
> rozella




I think that the new Super fund for the government being set up also helped the price rise as AMP are the second largest fund manager in Australia.  They they should get a sizeable cut of the business.


----------



## rozella (13 May 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered DRT today @ 131.5 with a margin of 70%   Investment 39.45/share.
Profit announcement expected 21st June with exdist expected 24th June. 
This period last year the trusts had not merged (DDF, DOT, & DIT), but I expect the distribution to be around 5.1 to 5.3 per unit zero franked. June was 5.2

rozella


----------



## rozella (16 May 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered WBC today @ 1938.0 with a margin of 75%  
Investment 484.5/share.
Exdiv date 1st June. Dividend 49.0/share fully franked 21.0/share.

rozella


----------



## rozella (19 May 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold a parcel of GAN today @ 160.5  Bought @ 155.0 on 19th April with a margin of 70%. 
Investment 46.5/share.
Profit announcement expected 21st June with exdist expected 24th June.
Last years distribution was 5.06/share zero franked.
Gross profit 5.5/share = 11.82% return on investment.  30 day trade

rozella


----------



## RodC (20 May 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Rozella,

Quick question on your 3% trailing stops. Is that from the high of the day or from the closing price?

Rod.


----------



## rozella (20 May 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				RodC said:
			
		

> G'day Rozella,
> 
> Quick question on your 3% trailing stops. Is that from the high of the day or from the closing price?
> 
> Rod.



Closing price, Rod


----------



## rozella (20 May 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold 2 separate parcels of DRT today @ 136.5  Bought 10th May & 13th May @ 131.5 with a margin of 70% 
Investment 39.45/share.
Profit announcement expected 21st June with exdist expected 24th June.  This period last year the trusts had not merged (DDF, DOT, & DIT), but I expect the distribution to be around 5.1 to 5.3 per unit zero franked. June was 5.2

Gross profit 5.0/share = 12.67% return on investment.  7 & 10 day trades.

In hindsight should have waited another 20 mins, went to 138.5 briefly for a smaller quantity, but.....now a U buyer on 136.5...ho-hum

Good earner this one, 4 completed DRT trades since buying 20th April. 

rozella


----------



## rozella (23 May 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold my last parcel of GAN today @ 163.0  
Bought on 3rd May @ 158.0 with a margin of 70% 
Investment 47.4/share. 
Profit announcement expected 21st June with exdist expected 24th June.
Last years distribution was 5.06/share zero franked.

Gross profit 5.0/share = 10.55% return on investment.  20 day trade.

I will watch for a re-enter on a low day.

rozella


----------



## rozella (23 May 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought LNN today @ 713.0 with a margin of 70%  Investment 213.90/share.
Exdiv date 30th May, dividend 15.0/share fully franked 6.43/share

rozella


----------



## rozella (24 May 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Took profits on 2 parcels of SGB today

Sold SGB today @ 2557.0  
Bought 10th May @ 2474.0 with a margin of 75% 
Investment 618.50/share.
exdiv date 14th June. Dividend 67.0/share fully franked 28.71/share
Gross profit 83.0/share = 13.42% return on investment.  14 day trade.

Sold SGB today @ 2553.0
Bought 29th April @ 2475.0 with a margin of 75% 
Investment 618.75/share.
exdiv date 14th June. Dividend 67.0/share fully franked 28.71/share
Gross profit 78.0/share = 12.60% return on investment.  25 day trade.

Will re-enter if the situation permits for the dividend.

rozella


----------



## rozella (25 May 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold SGB  bit early as it has been to 2575.0 today, but still have 3 weeks to exdiv day, something may happen between now & then.

Bought AWB this morning @ 430.0 with a margin of 70%  
Investment 129.0/share
It reported this morning with an increased dividend of 16.0/share fully franked 6.85/share
Exdiv date 10th June

rozella


----------



## rozella (25 May 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

PMN announced today that it had received a favourable ruling from the ATO on its proposal of a capital return that was approved by shareholders on 29th April.

I hold a parcel bought on 22nd March @ 499.0 with a margin of 75%  
Investment 149.70/share.  
I have received the 12.0/share dividend fully franked 5.14/share on 2nd May.

I bought another parcel on the close today @ 500.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 150.0/share.
The capital return is 23.0/share, ex-date for return of capital is 3rd June, & payment is 20th June.

rozella


----------



## rozella (30 May 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold LNN today @ 713.0  Bought 23rd May @ 713.0 with a margin of 70% 
Investment 213.90/share.
Exdiv date 30th May, dividend 15.0/share fully franked 6.43/share

Gross profit 21.43/share = 10.02% return on investment.  7 day trade.

rozella


----------



## rozella (30 May 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought CSR today on the close @ 252.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 75.60/share
Exdiv 7th June, dividend 6.0/share fully franked 2.57/share

rozella


----------



## rozella (1 June 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold AWB today @ 450.0  Bought 25th May @ 430.0 with a margin of 70% 
Investment 129.0/share
Dividend of 16.0/share fully franked 6.85/share
Exdiv date 10th June

Gross profit 20.0/share = 15.50% return on investment.  7 day trade.

rozella


----------



## rozella (1 June 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

An update to 1st June 2005 for the *Dividend Trading Strategy* is posted at:

Trading Diary 2

Margin Trading 2

Summary is:
commencing trading capital $75000 1st July 2004
portfolio increase $48269.97
portfolio value as at 1st June 2005 $123269.97
percent increase 64.36% in 336 days
cash in hand $ 30021.57
number of purchases 170
wins 109
losses 43
open trades 18 with 11 different stocks
dividends pending payment $2164.07
franking credits have been excluded from the calculations

All trading has been done with end of day prices.

rozella


----------



## rozella (3 June 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold 1 parcel of WBC today @ 1940.0 
Bought 16th May @ 1938.0 with a margin of 75% Investment 484.5/share.
Exdiv date 1st June. Dividend 49.0/share fully franked 21.0/share.

Gross profit 72.0/share = 14.86% return on investment.

rozella


----------



## rozella (6 June 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold 2 parcels of PMN today to finance some more buys.

Sold PMN @ 499.0 today.  Bought 22nd March @ 499.0 with a margin of 70%. 
Investment 149.7/share.
Exdiv 29th March, dividend 12.0/share fully franked 5.14/share.
Return of capital 23.0/share, ex-date for return of capital 3rd June.
Gross profit 40.14/share = 26.81% return on investment.  76 day trade.

Sold PMN @ 499.0 today.  Bought 25th May @ 500.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 150.0/share.
Return of capital 23.0/share, ex-date for return of capital 3rd June.
Gross profit 22.0/share = 14.67% return on investment.  12 day trade.

Re-entered AWB today @ 447.0 with a margin of 70%  
Investment 134.1/share.
Exdiv 10th June, dividend 16.0/share fully franked 6.86/share.

rozella


----------



## rozella (6 June 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold CPA today @ 132.0   Bought 3rd May @ 126.0 with a margin of 70% 
Investment 37.8/share. 
Profit announcement expected 21st June with exdist expected 24th June.
Last years distribution was 4.8/share zero franked.
Gross profit 6.0/share = 15.87% return on invesment.  34 day trade.

rozella


----------



## rozella (7 June 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold CSR today on the open @ 261.0  
Bought 31st May @ 252.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 75.60/share
Exdiv 7th June, dividend 6.0/share fully franked 2.57/share
Gross profit 17.57/share = 23.24% return on investment.  7 day trade.

rozella


----------



## rozella (7 June 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Finally re-entered SGB on the close today @ 2605.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 651.25/share
exdiv date 14th June. Dividend 67.0/share fully franked 28.71/share 

Bought AWB yesterday @ 447.0 which fell like a stone today.  
Stoploss is 433.0, closed @ 429.0  exdiv is this Friday so I decided to see how the open is tomorrow......wrong decision I think, going against the rules.....reason is it fell to 419.0 & recovered to 429.0


----------



## rozella (8 June 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold a parcel of WDC today @ 1726.0  
Bought 18th January @ 1721.0 with a margin of 75%  Investment 430.25/share
Dividend 52.03/share franked to 8.6% 1.62/share
Gross profit 58.65/share =13.63% return on investment.  141 day trade.

While typing sold another parcel of WDC today @ 1730.0
Bought 18th January @ 1721.0 with a margin of 75%  Investment 430.25/share
Dividend 52.03/share franked to 8.6% 1.62/share
Gross profit 62.65/share =14.56% return on investment.  141 day trade.

One more parcel to go that I bought on 27th January @ 1730.0......order not in yet.

rozella


----------



## rozella (8 June 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold last parcel of WDC today @ 1744.0   Bought 27th January @ 1730.0 with a margin of 75%.  Investment 432.50/share.
Dividend 52.03/share franked to 8.6% 1.62/share
Gross profit 67.65/share =15.64% return on investment. 141 day trade.

end of a long saga


----------



## rozella (10 June 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Just bought another parcel of SGB @ 2623.0 (now 2619...always the way) with a margin of 75%.  Investment 655.75/share.  Goes exdiv next Tuesday 14th June....last day to buy today.  Dividend 67.0/share fully franked 28.71/share.


----------



## rozella (15 June 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold my last parcel of WBC today @ 1967.0  Bought 29th April @ 1939.0 with a margin of 75%  Investment 484.75/share.
Exdiv date 1st June
Dividend was 49.0/share fully franked 21.0
Gross profit 98.0/share = 20.21% return on investment.  47 day trade.


----------



## Warren Buffet II (16 June 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Sold my last parcel of WBC today @ 1967.0  Bought 29th April @ 1939.0 with a margin of 75%  Investment 484.75/share.
> Exdiv date 1st June
> Dividend was 49.0/share fully franked 21.0
> Gross profit 98.0/share = 20.21% return on investment.  47 day trade.




Hi Rozella,

Excellent thread and fantatic performance, I think you are the one doing the best strategy in this forum. I have followed your entries every time so keep posting.

I have one question for you, I know you use a Margin Leading account and I do not know much about it but I was wondering if you take a Margin loan say for $50.000 and you use only $20.000, do you pay interest on the whole loan or just what you have used?  Do you have to pay a fee everytime you use you loan money?

Regards,

WBII


----------



## rozella (16 June 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Warren Buffet II,



> I was wondering if you take a Margin loan say for $50.000 and you use only $20.000, do you pay interest on the whole loan or just what you have used?



Only what you use.....marginlenders vary a little with the interest & the two I use are 8.4% p.a.  All my brokerage & interest is capitalised to the margin loan.



> Do you have to pay a fee everytime you use you loan money?



Not a cent extra, although some brokers want to charge you extra.  I believe Comsec adds another $10 to the brokerage if you use a margin loan.

rozella


----------



## RodC (16 June 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

That's right, Comsec charge $10 for each transaction on the margin loan. But having the margin loan gives you their discounted brokerage rate ($19.95 for less than $10K), so it works out about the same.

Rod.


----------



## rozella (17 June 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought MAP today @ 360.69 with a margin of 70%  Investment 108.207/share.
Exdistribution 24th June, dividend declared 11.0 zero franked.


----------



## rozella (17 June 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought MIG today @ 420.0 with a margin  of 70%   Investment 126.0/share
Exdistribution 24th June, distribution 13.75  franking TBA.


----------



## rozella (17 June 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold a parcel of SGB today @ 2626.0   Bought 7th June @ 2605.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 651.25/share
exdiv date 14th June. Dividend 67.0/share fully franked 28.71/share 
Gross profit 116.71/share = 17.92% return on investment


----------



## rozella (21 June 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought DRT back again today (higher than expected) @ 144.5 with a margin of 70%
Investment 43.35/share.
Exdist 24th June, distribution 5.3/share, zero franked.


----------



## rozella (21 June 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought back into CPA again @ 135.5 with a margin of 70%  Investment 40.62/share
Exdist 24th June, distribution 4.8/share, zero franked.


----------



## rozella (22 June 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of DRT today @ 143.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 42.9/share
Exdist 24th June, distribution 5.3/share, zero franked.

Re-entered GAN today @ 171.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 51.3/share
Exdist 24th June. distribution 5.31/share, zero franked.

Bought MCW today @ 201.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 60.3/share
Exdiv 24th June, distribution 7.4/share, zero franked.

Bought TEN today @ 400.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 120.0/share
Exdiv 27th June, dividend 9.0/share, fully franked.


----------



## rozella (23 June 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought TSO today @ 219.0 with a margin of 65%  Investment 76.65/share
Exdist 24th June, distribution 9.25/share, zero franked.


----------



## rozella (23 June 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold AWB on the close @ 450.0
Bought 6th June @ 447.0 with a margin of 70% 
Investment 134.1/share.
Exdiv 10th June, dividend 16.0/share fully franked 
Gross profit 19.0/share = 14.17% return on investment (franking not incl).  17 day trade.

Bought CNP on the close today @ 610.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 183.0/share
Exdist 24th June, distribution 17.6/share, zero franked.


----------



## rozella (24 June 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

What a day to have 11 stocks go exdiv......none have hit stops yet after dividend adjustment, but MAP & CPA are close....all are LPT's.  XAO down 34.0 points atm

Got lucky & sold a small parcel of SGP today @ 570.0 (pays to have orders in first thing on exdiv day & don't be greedy....sometimes you can catch a blip)
Bought 19th April @ 570.0 with a margin of 70%. Investment 171.0/share.
Exdist today 
Distribution 19.6/share franking TBA
Gross profit 19.6/share = 11.46% return on investment.  66 days


----------



## rozella (29 June 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold MIG today @ 422.0  
Bought 17th June @ 420.0 with a margin of 70% 
Investment 126.0/share
Exdistribution 24th June, distribution 13.75 franking TBA.
Gross profit 15.75/share = 12.5% return on investment.  12 day trade


----------



## rozella (30 June 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold my last parcel of SGB today @ 2627.0  
Bought 10th June @ 2623.0 with a margin of 75%. 
Investment 655.75/share.  Exdiv 14th June. 
Dividend 67.0/share fully franked 28.71/share.
Gross profit 71.0/share =  10.83% return on investment, excluding franking.
20 day trade


----------



## rozella (1 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought AFI today @ 371.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 111.3/share
Expected profit announcement 27th July, expected exdiv date 3rd August.
Last years dividend was 8.75/share fully franked.


----------



## rozella (1 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought WES today @ 3931.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 1179.3/share
Profit announcement expected early August, exdiv date expected around 16th August.
Last years dividend 92.0/share fully franked.


----------



## rozella (5 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold GAN today on the open @ 172.0
Bought 22nd June @ 171.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 51.3/share
Exdist 24th June. distribution 5.31/share, zero franked.
Gross profit 6.31/share = 12.30% return on investment.
13 day trade

Sold CNP today @ 610.0  I don't want to be involved with the spin off trust, goes ex tomorrow....but looks like more in it today.
Bought 23rd june @ 610.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 183.0/share
Exdist 24th June, distribution 17.6/share, zero franked.
Gross profit 17.6/share = 9.61% return on investment.
12 day trade


----------



## rozella (5 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold MAP today @ 361.0
Bought 17th June @ 360.69 with a margin of 70% Investment 108.207/share.
Exdistribution 24th June, dividend declared 11.0 zero franked.
Gross profit 11.31/share = 10.45% return on investment.
18 day trade.


----------



## rozella (5 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold WES today @ 4033.0
Bought 1st July @ 3931.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 1179.3/share
Profit announcement expected early August, exdiv date expected around 16th August.
Last years dividend 92.0/share fully franked.
Gross profit 102.0/share = 8.65% return on investment.
4 day trade


----------



## rozella (6 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought CBA today @ 3793.0 with a margin of 75%  
Investment 948.25/share
Profit announcement expected 10th August, exdiv date expected 15th August.
Last years dividend was 104.0/share fully franked.


----------



## rozella (6 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered WES today @ 4008.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 1202.4/share
Profit announcement expected early August, exdiv date expected around 16th August.
Last years dividend 92.0/share fully franked.


----------



## sam21poddy (6 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

rozella,

How do you decide how far ahead of the dividend announcement that you enter the trade?  I have been reading the dividend reaping strategy using instalment warrants on the ASX website and they say buy on the announcement - not ahead of it.  What makes you decide "today is the day"?


----------



## rozella (6 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day sam21poddy,

Buying on the announcement is what I call my section 2 of my strategy, which is the safest as we know what the results are.

Section 1, prior to the announcement, is more of a "gamble" as although we know basically when they report but to some extent we are flying blindly......but some nice dollars can be made here.



> What makes you decide "today is the day"?



Just market behaviour, but it can be all over the place.  My idea here is to try & have 3 or 4 trades prior to exdiv day, then when I finally re-enter for the dividend, I only need to return to my buy price after exdiv, then I am out & move onto another.  WES can be a good one for this.....but don't get out of synch......if you are watching it atm you will know what I mean.

rozella


----------



## sam21poddy (6 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

rozella,

I'm still holding onto shares that I bought before they went ex-div and the price never recovered to what I paid after they went ex-div.  I am still holding them and some are coming up for another dividend.  I never intended to keep them this long because the holding costs add up.  Some of them are AMP, CML, LNN, NAB, PPT, TLS.  Nearly all my capital is tied up so I can't buy anything much now but even if I had the cash I feel the market is so high.  The last time I bought WES it was at $32 and I thought it was high then so now at around $40 I worry it is too high. Anyway, that is why I have been reading about the dividend strategy using instalment warrants so that I don't have so much money tied up all the time.  Somewhere earlier on this thread someone said using instalment warrants is more expensive than using gearing but I don't really understand why.  If my shares have a run up prior to going ex-dividend I am tempted to sell them (and not take the dividend) and recover my money and start over again.


----------



## rozella (6 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day sam21poddy,

Every dividend trade is definitely not a winner, so you need to identify when to pull the plug.  You must have a stoploss in place & act on it before you get in too deep.  I use a trailing stop of 3%, & have a minimum of 10 different stocks, & a maximum of 15 (there may be more than 1 parcel of the same stock).

I grade my stocks, with the very best having no greater than 15% of total portfolio, others may be 5% to 15%.  So if a (15%) stock hits its stoploss, this is only 0.45% of total portfolio, therefore there is room for some discretion if required, & not much damage can be done.  What I am getting at is you need to have some risk management in place, not only just a stoploss, so you need to adjust your trade size accordingly.  When you have 10 to 15 stocks, they are in different parts of the strategy cycle, so there ias always something happening & you don't become bored either.

Don't be alarmed at the position you have found yourself in as most traders have been there.....especially me over the years.  These are the best lessons you can have, its called pocketloss.  I don't stray from my rules very much now, but now & again I do because I think I know better than the market....big mistake & almost always come undone, & I should know better.

The problem this leaves you with is, that your money is not going anywhere atm...stagnant.  I find that if found in this situation, look at each stock individually, & say would I buy it at the price it is atm.  If the answer is no, then sell it immediately, .....you could sell it for whatever it is worth now, & be in a stock going in the right direction.

If yes, then keep holding it as though you have just bought it putting stops into place.

This is not advice, I just want to give you something to think about, the decision is yours.

rozella


----------



## sam21poddy (7 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thanks for replying rozella,

I don't have a system in place - the only rule I pretty much stick to is to buy only blue chip stocks.  There is one thing that hasn't been working for me - I read it in a lot of books on trading - the rule about "let your profits run".  When my trades are in profit and I am tempted to take a profit, I try to follow the "let your profits run" advice and I don't sell but then I lose my opportunity to sell at a profit and end up holding onto the shares for many months.  Years ago before I read all the trading books, I used to take small profits regularly and it worked for me but then I tried to improve things and I went backwards.  So I think if I can recover my capital, I am going back to what I was comfortable with - taking small profits regularly.


----------



## RodC (8 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

hi rozella,

Just been looking at some your site again, and have thought of a question.

Do you ever re-enter stocks that you've been stopped out of? 

I note that in the lead up to the ex-div date you'll often try to take several trades buying back in on a retracement. Would you do this after being stopped or does being stopped out, make that stock a "no go" until the next dividend period?

thanks,

Rod.


----------



## rozella (8 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day RodC,

Yes, if the criteria still fits.  I can't quickly identify some examples, but I will check through the trades later.

I just found one
Buy WES 4th August 2004 @ 2970.0
Sell WES 9th August 2004 @ 2875.0 stoploss 2881.0

Buy WES 10th August 2004 @ 2847.0
Sell WES 20th August 2004 @ 2947.0 after reaching trailing stop
exdiv 16th August 2004, dividend 92.0/share fully franked 39.43/share
Gross profit 231.43/share = 27.1% return on investment.

Seems ironic that I just closed out WES last night as it hit the stoploss after holding for 6 days, re the website EOD trading.

My personal buy of WES that I re-entered on the 6th July this month is looking awefully shakey ......the matchout opening price atm is 3875.0, & my stoploss is 3887.0  I collected 102.0 from it on 5th July, but this is a whole new deal.

rozella


----------



## DTM (8 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold out of my WES puts yesterday as it was on my support line.  I think it may bounce today if its an up day for the market.  The attack may cause a positive response for the markets.  (hoping)


----------



## rozella (8 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day DTM,

The DOW was initially down, then rebounded.

Moving the Market 

rozella


----------



## rozella (13 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold AFI today @ 383.0
Bought 1st July @ 371.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 111.3/share
Expected profit announcement 27th July, expected exdiv date 3rd August.
Last years dividend was 8.75/share fully franked.
Gross profit = 12.0/share = 10.78% return on investment.  12 days


----------



## rozella (13 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought DJW today @ 386.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 115.8/share
Profit announcement expected 1st August, exdiv date expected 8th August.
Last years div was 11.5/share fully franked 4.93/share


----------



## rozella (14 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold WAN today @ 845.0
Bought 7th July @ 810.0 with a margin of 70%  Investment 243.0/share
Profit report expected around 5th August, exdiv expected 12th September
Last years dividend was 21.0/share fully franked 9.0/share
Gross profit = 35.0/share = 14.40% return on investment.


----------



## rozella (19 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered WAN today @ 824.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 247.2/share
Profit announcement expected 5th August, exdiv date 12th September.
Last years dividend was 21.0/share fully franked 9.0/share.

Reporting season gets into swing during next week....should be plenty of action.


----------



## rozella (20 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought ADB today on the close @ 1155.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 346.5/share
Profit announcement expected late July, exdiv expected approx 23rd September.
Last years dividend was 25.0/share fully franked 10.71/share.

Missed a sell on WAN today......reached 843.0 then dropped back to 824.0 before closing at 830.0.  Took my off the ball for a while.....weather is too good.


----------



## rozella (20 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought ADB today on the close @ 1155.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 346.5/share
Profit announcement expected late July, exdiv expected approx 23rd September.
Last years dividend was 25.0/share fully franked 10.71/share.

Missed a sell on WAN today......reached 843.0 then dropped back to 824.0 before closing at 830.0.  Took my eye off the ball for a while.....weather is too good.


----------



## rozella (20 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought ADB today on the close @ 1155.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 346.5/share
Profit announcement expected late July, exdiv expected approx 23rd September.
Last years dividend was 25.0/share fully franked 10.71/share.

Missed a sell on WAN today......reached 843.0 then dropped back to 824.0 before closing at 830.0.  Took my eye off the ball for a while.....weather is too good.


----------



## rozella (20 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought ADB today on the close @ 1155.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 346.5/share
Profit announcement expected late July, exdiv expected approx 23rd September.
Last years dividend was 25.0/share fully franked 10.71/share.

Missed a sell on WAN today......reached 843.0 then dropped back to 824.0 before closing at 830.0.  Took my eye off the ball for a while.....weather is too good.


----------



## rozella (20 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought ADB today on the close @ 1155.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 346.5/share
Profit announcement expected late July, exdiv expected approx 23rd September.
Last years dividend was 25.0/share fully franked 10.71/share.

Missed a sell on WAN today......reached 843.0 then dropped back to 824.0 before closing at 830.0.  Took my eye off the ball for a while.....weather is too good.


----------



## rozella (20 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sorry Joe, I guess my fingers are stuttering   

rozella


----------



## RodC (20 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,

Great thread,

It's interesting how often your buys/sells in your personal trading are almost the opposite of the ones on your website.
 eg: you've bought both WAN and ADB in the last 2 days whereas both were sells yesterday after hitting stops.

I guess that comes with experience.

Rod.


----------



## rozella (20 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day RodC,

The basic strategy is the same for both, except that on my forum posts, which are my personal trades & are intraday, I take profits when I reach an amount approximately equal to the dividend, then if we have a low day, I re-enter

On the website trading diary, I only sell when a stop is hit, & only use EOD data.

With WAN & ADB, I am on a different rung of the ladder than the website, if you follow my reasoning.

It is very slow atm with the strategy, but that will change starting next week with the reporting season starting.....its good to have a rest & be partly cashed up anyway.

rozella


----------



## RodC (20 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,

thanks for the reply,

I suspected that was the case, I just found those 2 to be an interesting contrast.

You're quite right, the reporting season should make things more interesting.

Rod.


----------



## rozella (21 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold WAN today @ average of 847.512
Bought 19th July @ 824.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 247.2/share
Profit announcement expected 5th August, exdiv date 12th September.
Last years dividend was 21.0/share fully franked 9.0/share.
Gross profit = 23.512/share = 9.51% return on investment .  2 day trade


----------



## rozella (22 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold ADB today @ 1190.0
Bought 20th July @ 1155.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 346.5/share
Profit announcement expected late July, exdiv expected approx 23rd September.
Last years dividend was 25.0/share fully franked 10.71/share.
Gross profit = 35.0/share = 10.1% return on investment.  2 day trade


----------



## rozella (27 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold CBA today @ 3916.0
Bought 6th July @ 3793.0 with a margin of 75% 
Investment 948.25/share
Profit announcement expected 10th August, exdiv date expected 15th August.
Last years dividend was 104.0/share fully franked.
Gross profit = 123.0/share = 12.97% return on investment. 21 days

Bought ALS today @ 780.0 with a margin of 55%
Investment 351.0/share
Announced today, exdiv date 12th August, dividend 25.0/share fully franked.

Bought ASX today on the close @ 2495.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 748.5/share
Announced today, exdiv 8th August, dividend 50.9/share fully franked.


----------



## rozella (29 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered ADB today @ 1223.0 with a 70% margin
Investment 366.9/share
Announcement yesterday, exdiv 26th September.
Dividend 29.0/share fully franked 12.43/share.

ASX has had a good bounce today.....watching the tick movement chart atm.....may be a sell soon before the usual Friday profittaking.


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (29 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Sold ADB today @ 1190.0
> Bought 20th July @ 1155.0 with a margin of 70%
> Investment 346.5/share
> Profit announcement expected late July, exdiv expected approx 23rd September.
> ...




Rozella,

Interesting reading! I'm curious as to why you sold ADB before the report came out. In the days after you sold the stock it rose dramatically, up to $12.60 I think. I read today you re-entered, though the stock seems to have already factored in the results hence the drop after yesterday's report. 

Does your theory suppose the stock will go higher again due to the dividend coming up?

Thanks
tina


----------



## rozella (29 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Snake Pliskin,

My aim is to earn the dividend on every stock I enter, so when a stock rises an amount approx equal to the dividend & starts to flatten, I take the profit, wait for a low day, & re-enter.

As I am fully in the market, usually I need to sell something to finance another if it looks better.  e.g. I sold CBA to finance ASX 2 days ago.  Although they knocked down ASX because of the lack of return of capital statement, I thought it was a kneejerk reaction.....I will be out of it shortly today & maybe back into CBA Monday.....just trying to squeeze more from the same $$$'s

ADB does not go exdiv until 26th Sept, so there could be a few trades there, as investors go hot & cold over it.....it has had its best report in its history, so they say.....I thought it may have moved more today. 

I sold ADB in the above quote because I thought it was the right move at the time.  I often leave good money on the table by selling too early, but what you do with the proceeds must also be taken into account.   



> Does your theory suppose the stock will go higher again due to the dividend coming up?



"The lure of the dividend, gives a stock a reason to rise"  this is the basis of the strategy.


----------



## rozella (29 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Another good day over.

Sold ASX today @ 2580.0
Bought 27th July @ 2495.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 748.5/share
Announced 27th July, exdiv 8th August, dividend 50.9/share fully franked.
Gross profit = 85.0/share = 11.35%return on investment.  2 days

The dregs of the LPT's I am still holding from the June distributions had substantial rises today, so hopefully I will say goodbye to them next week until December.


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (30 July 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Another good day over.
> 
> Sold ASX today @ 2580.0
> Bought 27th July @ 2495.0 with a margin of 70%
> ...




Hi Rozella,

Thanks for your response. 

Snake Pliskin


----------



## rozella (1 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered CBA today @ 3906.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 976.5/share
Profit announcement expected 10th August, exdiv date expected 15th August.
Last years dividend was 104.0/share fully franked.


----------



## rozella (2 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

LPT's are bouncing along today, should be out of them soon if this keeps up.

Sold my last parcel of SGP today @ 586.0
Bought on 2nd May @ 584.0 with a margin of 70% Investment 175.2/share
Exdist 24th June, distribution 19.6/unit, franking TBA. 
Gross profit estimate = 21.6/unit = 12.32% return on investment.  91 days, a bit longer than usual.  Interest takes 8.6/unit away.


----------



## rozella (3 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold ALS today in bits & pieces @ average 817.4
Bought 27th July @ 780.0 with a margin of 55%
Investment 351.0/share
Exdiv date 12th August, dividend 25.0/share fully franked.
Gross profit = 37.4/share = 10.65% return on investment.  7 days

Re-entered WAN today @ 848.0 with a margin of 70%.  Investment 254.4/share.
Profit announcement expected 5th August, exdiv date 12th September.
Last years dividend was 21.0/share fully franked 9.0/share.

Wow.....ALS still on the move....now @ 822.0


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (3 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Rozella,

Do you plan to trade TIM? It's up today and goes ex div on 10th August, payable 31st Aug? I have a holding and am waiting for the dividend before offloading.

As soon as a stock goes ex dividend, all existing holders are entitled to receive the dividend. Does this eligibility mean after the 10th or on the 10th?

Thanks in advance.

Snake Pliskin


----------



## rozella (3 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Snake Pliskin,



> Do you plan to trade TIM? It's up today and goes ex div on 10th August, payable 31st Aug? I have a holding and am waiting for the dividend before offloading.



The dividend amount plus franking credits, divided by my investment, does not meet my criteria when I use marginlending.....I require 10% or better, TIM only shows 4.74%, so I will not be purchasing.



> As soon as a stock goes ex dividend, all existing holders are entitled to receive the dividend. Does this eligibility mean after the 10th or on the 10th?



Exdiv day is on the 10th August, so you can sell on the open, & still be entitled to the dividend.

rozella


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (3 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Rozella,

Thanks for that.


----------



## rozella (3 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of WAN today (final qty on the close) @ average of 839.5 with a margin of 70%  Investment 251.85/share.
Profit announcement expected 5th August, exdiv date expected 12th September.
Last years dividend was 21.0/share fully franked 9.0/share.


----------



## rozella (4 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought WDC today on the pre-open for the distribution announcement @ 1795.0 with a margin of 75%.  Investment 448.75/.share.
Exdist 9th August, distribution 51.0/share, franking TBA.

I am having problems emailing Optus ISP users today re exdividendwatchlist intraday profit reports......most are being rejected......no problems with other ISP's.


----------



## JeffB (6 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rosella,

I am interested in hearing your view on BHP. I understand that BHP will announce a record FY profit on 24th August. There are a few indicators which spell a big play for your strategy (isn't it reffered to as dividend stripping ???). 

Firstly, the meteoric rise of RIO (as a comparable business) pre and intraday of their announcement,

Secondly, and more importantly the ongoing strength in commodities, 

Thirdly, BHP's margin ratio of 75%, 

Fourthly, the possibility of a special dividend.

Given point number two I think BHP's share price will recover farely quickly, post ex div.

Thanks for a very interesting thread........JeffB


----------



## Warren Buffet II (6 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				JeffB said:
			
		

> Hi Rosella,
> 
> I am interested in hearing your view on BHP. I understand that BHP will announce a record FY profit on 24th August. There are a few indicators which spell a big play for your strategy (isn't it reffered to as dividend stripping ???).
> 
> ...




Yes, I think that is likely but they paid last February 17.1522 c, so if they keep the same divd the yield will be 0.875%. It is a poor yield for the effort.


----------



## rozella (6 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day JeffB & Warren Buffet II,

I have to agree with WBII, as the yield for a dividend trade is far too low, that does not mean that it is not a good rising stock, it just does not fit the criteria for me to warrant a dividend trade, as I am after stocks that fit the mould so that I can have a consistant cashflow.

As of closing 5th August BHP was 1960.0  To buy now with a 75% margin, our investment would be 490.0/share.
As they have not reported yet, I like to use the dividend for the same period last year to give me some sort of indication on yields, which was 13.23/share.

My criteria just to qualify to go on my daily prospect watchlist is that the (dividend + franking credit) divided by the investment, must be 10% or greater.  So in the case of BHP, it would be (13.23 + 5.67) / 490.0 = 0.03857 or 3.86%

They should announce approx 24th of this month, but the dividend (including any special dividend) would need to be approx 35.0/share ie 50.0/share including franking credits to come onto my radar.

As I said earlier, this does not mean that BHP is not a buy, it just means that in my opinion for my own trading, the lure of the dividend is not great enough to drive the price.  The rising price is not because the dividend is coming, it is from other reasons which does not fit my strategy.

Cheers


----------



## rozella (8 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold DJW today @ 395.0
Bought 13th July @ 386.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 115.8/share
Exdiv date today, 8th August.
Dividend is 12.5/share fully franked 5.36/share
Gross profit 21.5/share = 18.56% return on investment (franking excluded)
26 day trade


----------



## rozella (8 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of WDC today @ 1790.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1147.5/share
Goes exdist tomorrow 9th August, distribution 51.0/share, franking TBA


----------



## JeffB (9 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,

CBA would have met your criteria. It has been moving upwards very strongly pre FY announcement (tomorrow). Are you long CBA ?


----------



## rozella (9 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Yes JeffB,

This time around I bought on 6th July @ 3793.0, then sold 27th July @ 3916.0, then re-entered @ 3906.0 on 1st August & still holding.

I have had mixed success with CBA over the years, sometimes after exdiv it struggles......but whose to know this time.


----------



## rozella (9 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold WES today @ 4118.0
Bought 6th July @ 4008.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 1202.4/share
Profit announcement today, exdiv date 15th August.
Dividend 127.0/share fully franked.
Gross profit = 110.0/share = 9.15% return on investment.  34 days


----------



## rozella (10 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered WES today @ 4070.0 with a margin of 70%  Investment 1221.0/share
Exdiv date 15th August, dividend 127.0/share fully franked.

Sold ANZ today @ 2182.0 to finance another parcel of CBA
Bought 9th May @ 2170.0 with a margin of 75% Investment 542.50/share
exdiv date 16th May. Dividend 51.0/share fully franked 21.85/share.
Gross profit 84.85/share = 15.64% return on investment.  92 day trade

Bought another parcel of CBA today @ 3872.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 968.0/share
Profit report announced today, exdiv 15th August, dividend 112.0/share fully franked.


----------



## Warren Buffet II (10 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Bought another parcel of CBA today @ 3872.0 with a margin of 75%
> Investment 968.0/share
> Profit report announced today, exdiv 15th August, dividend 112.0/share fully franked.




Hi Rozella,

How interesting CBA today? They announced the best results everand the price went down 2%, have you experienced a similar situation before?

I think the share price already acummulated the divd, so what you reckon is going to happens in the next days before XD and in the XD day?

I bought more CBA today.

WBII


----------



## rozella (10 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Warren Buffet II,

From news.com







> "The cash profit was slightly less than expectations and perhaps the dividend was slightly less than some of the bullish forecasts," he said. "But the stock had run up pretty high in anticipation of a good result."



Shares crack records, CBA drops 

As I said in a post earlier, I have had mixed results with CBA in the past, ......it dropped just over a dollar today in half a day, it can easily go up again in the next 2 days......who knows ??

I will make my decision Friday after lunch whether to stay for the div or not.


----------



## DTM (10 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

We could be seeing a run down before buying for the div will lift the price again.

Rozella, when is the dividend being paid?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## rozella (10 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

CBA 
exdiv date 15th August 2005
pay date 23rd September 2005
dividend 112.0/share fully franked


----------



## rozella (10 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold WES today for a smaller gain @ 4132.0
Bought earlier today @ 4070.0 with a margin of 70% Investment 1221.0/share
Exdiv date 15th August, dividend 127.0/share fully franked.
Gross profit = 62.0/share = 5.08% return on investment.  1 day trade

Not much time for a re-enter now unless I get lucky, especially when I have golf until midday tomorrow.   I may have to leave some instructions on this one.


----------



## doctorj (10 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thanks for taking the time to post these.  They make very interesting reading!


----------



## rozella (10 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thanks doctorj,

It keeps me alert by posting, strange as it may sound


----------



## ghotib (10 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I had the same thought this evening as DoctorJ:  thanks for posting all these Rozella. It's very good to watch a system in action like this. 

Cheers,

Ghoti


----------



## rozella (11 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thanks ghotib,

I'm off to golf now......hope the market behaves.....back at midday.
I need to stretch the eyes away from the screen.


----------



## JeffB (11 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

CBA share price hammered due to a measly div payout. It looks like shareholders were expecting a special dividend or at least a better final dividend on the back of such a strong result.


----------



## rozella (11 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day JeffB,

Yes, I was expecting better, but it is still a great yield just the same....investors want blood these days


----------



## rozella (11 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

While I was out golfing today I sold CPA @ 135.5 ( I see it has gone to 137.5)
Bought 21st June @ 135.5 with a margin of 70% Investment 40.62/share
Exdist 24th June, distribution 4.8/share, zero franked.
Gross profit 4.8/share = 11.81% return on investment.  51 day trade.
Would have been nice to receive the extra 2 cents !!!

Bought GUD today @ 828.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 289.80/share
Exdiv 22nd August, dividend 27.0/share fully franked 11.57/share


----------



## rozella (12 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Decided to re-enter WES today @ 4150.0 with a margin of 70%  
Investment 1245.0/share
Exdiv date 15th August, dividend 127.0/share fully franked.


----------



## mit (12 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> G'day Warren Buffet II,
> 
> From news.com Shares crack records, CBA drops
> 
> ...




CBA hasn't bounced back unfortunately. (I usually sell on the exdiv day because if you account for the dividend and the franking credits you usually do better than selling the day before) but I might sell today at close as it might really drop after people get their dividends.

MIT.


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (14 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

The following article sheds some light on the performance of CBA in light of its great result!

http://www.theage.com.au/news/busin...for-mum-and-dad/2005/08/12/1123353502333.html


----------



## rozella (14 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I decided to stay in CBA for the dividend.


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (14 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Rozella,

I know you trade with margin lending and have done well with your dividend trading strategy.

My question is how effective would your strategy be using 100% of your own funds, providing you had the requisite capital, to yield acceptable returns?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## rozella (15 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Snake Pliskin,

If you have a strategy that you are happy with, then the more capital you can put into the strategy = more profit.

Marginlending does that. eg. If you have a $10,000 trade & make 3%, you profit $300 gross. (using your own $10,000)
If you use marginlending with a LVR of 70%, your trade would be $33,333.33 & make 3%, you profit $1000 gross.

Marginlending does not make you win, it just gives you more cash in the market.  The percentage return does not matter as you know, it is the dollar profit that counts.

Of course if you are trading blindly without a proven strategy, then it could be a disaster, as you would lose $1000 of your $10,000

So to answer your question.....if you had unlimited capital, in the above example, to make $1000, you would use $33,333.33 of your own cash for the trade.


----------



## mit (15 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

CBA scooted lower than I expected so I didn't manage to sell at close. So I am in today hoping for a little bounce from Friday.

MIT


----------



## rozella (15 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day mit,

At the worst it should drop div + franking = 160.0......ouch

The DOW being down 85.58 does not help

I also have WES exdiv today, so together will give my marginloans a fright.


----------



## mit (15 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Got out of CBA this morning at 37.07 so made money on the franking credits. Sold WES at 40.27 but should have been more patient as it is trading higher than that now. 

No Margin problem here   ,  I have to increase the value of my loan again as the growth of my portfolio keeps outstripping my loan limits.

Thanks Rozella for the original idea of trading dividends (I read the first posts at reefcap). I don't trade the same way as you do but the basic premise works well. 

Also for those who want to trade dividends Rozella's news letter takes the grunt work out of finding announcement dates/dividend dates and Margin Limits.

MIT
MIT


----------



## rozella (23 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought BSL today @ 959.0 with a margin of 70%  Investment 287.70/share
Exdiv 28th September, dividend including special 44.0/share fully franked.


----------



## rozella (29 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought SUN today @ 2060.0 with a margin of 70%.  Investment 618.0/share.
Exdiv 31st August, dividend 120.0/share fully franked.


----------



## rozella (30 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold ADB today @ 1279.0  
Bought 29th July @ 1223.0 with a margin of 70%   Investment 366.9/share
Exdiv 26th September, dividend 29.0/share fully franked 12.43/share
Gross profit 56.0/share = 15.26% return on investment.  32 day trade.


----------



## rozella (30 August 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold GUD today @ 757.0
Bought 11th August @ 828.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 289.80/share
Exdiv 22nd August, dividend 27.0/share fully franked 11.57/share
Gross loss 44.0/share = 15.18% loss on investment


----------



## rozella (2 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Going nowhere with TLS except down, it is my longest holding bought prior to the last dividend.  I should know better than to hold on too long once a stock has hit the stoploss level as this procedure rarely pays.....but.....if.....what....& have had plenty of opportunities to sell at a better price.  I was waiting for the dividend to help drive up the price & sell prior to exdiv, but the negative vibes were stronger.

Sold TLS today @ 460.0
Bought on 9th March @ 534.0 with a margin of 75%. Investment 133.5/share.
Exdiv 24th March with a div of 20.0/share fully franked 8.57/share
Gross loss 45.43/share = 34.03% loss on investment.  177 days

Also sold another parcel today @ 460.0
Bought on 10th March @ 533.0 with a margin of 75%. Investment 133.25/share.
Exdiv 24th March with a div of 20.0/share fully franked 8.57/share
Gross loss 44.43/share = 33.34% loss on investment.  176 days

rozella


----------



## rozella (2 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered ADB on the close @ 1263.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 389.90/share
exdiv 26th September, dividend 29.0/share fully franked 12.43/share.


----------



## rozella (5 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought AGL today @1431.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 429.3/share
Exdiv 9th September, dividend 32.0/share fully franked 13.71/share

My fingers & brain are not connected again, the  ADB purchase should read, Investment 378.90/share, not 389.90/share


----------



## Yippyio (5 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Is TLS paying the special dividend & the regular div on 31 Oct ?, if so the yeild is looking pretty good at today's price. 

Overall investment not so good if the SP goes to $3, like Burgess is spruiking.


----------



## rozella (5 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Yes 31st October for pay date.

How low can it go.......more yet I think


----------



## rozella (5 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought SSX today @ 152.5 with a margin of 65%
Investment 53.375/share
Exdiv 19th September, dividend 4.5/share fully franked 1.93/share


----------



## sails (6 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,

There is an interesting debate going on as to whether a trader can claim interest expenses on borrowings at http://www.number.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=126&sid=8ed8c5ffd10deac24731a0ec7c5d3c8a  (need to scroll down a couple of posts).

If you are registered as a trader, just wondering how you interpret the ATO's fact sheet as interest on borrowings would be a major expense for you.  Would appreciate any insight!

Margaret.


----------



## rozella (6 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day sails,

Thanks for pointing me to the discussion, I don't agree with Paul, & obviously my accountant does not either, but I will look into it further.  I have a trader/friend visiting me for the day, so I am a little restricted with time atm.


----------



## clowboy (6 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Well I only had a quick look at the site but the guy seems like a clown.
His opening post he states that an investor gets a CGT reduction on a dividend. Umm dividends are not CG and are treated equally no matter what your clasification.  I wouldn't hold much credit to any of what he says personally.


----------



## rozella (7 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold SSX today @ 157.5
Bought 5th September @ 152.5 with a margin of 65%
Investment 53.375/share
Exdiv 19th September, dividend 4.5/share fully franked 1.93/share
Gross profit 5.0/share = 9.368% return on investment.  2 day trade
Will re-enter if situation permits


----------



## rozella (7 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold ADB today @ 1307.0
Bought 2nd September @ 1263.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 389.90/share
exdiv 26th September, dividend 29.0/share fully franked 12.43/share.
Gross profit 44.0/share = 11.285% return on investment.  5 day trade.
Will re-enter if situation permits


----------



## rozella (9 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered SSX today @ 153.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 53.55/share
Exdiv 19th September, dividend 4.5/share fully franked 1.93/share


----------



## rozella (13 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought MGW today @ 426.0 with a margin of 65%.
Investment 149.10/share
exdiv date 31st October, dividend 13.25/share fully franked 5.68/share.


----------



## rozella (13 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold a parcel of WAN today @ 841.0
Bought 3rd August @ 839.5 with a margin of 70% Investment 251.85/share.
exdiv date expected 12th September.
dividend was 23.0/share fully franked 9.86/share.
Gross profit 24.5/share = 9.73% return on investment franking excluded.  41 days


----------



## rozella (14 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold AGL on the open @ 1439.0
Bought 5th September @ 1431.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 429.3/share
Exdiv 9th September, dividend 32.0/share fully franked 13.71/share
Gross profit 40.0/share = 9.32% return on investment.  fc excluded.  9 days


----------



## rozella (14 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought PMN today @ 488.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 146.40/share
Exdiv date 10th October, dividend 10.5/share fully franked 4.50/share


----------



## rozella (14 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold last parcel of WAN today @ 850.0
Bought 3rd August @ 848.0 with a margin of 70%. Investment 254.4/share.
exdiv date 12th September.
dividend was 23.0/share fully franked 9.86/share.
Gross profit 25.0/share = 9.83%return on investment.  fc excluded 42 days


----------



## rozella (15 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought SBC today in a mixed lot (all but 134 on the top of the bids....will cancel the balance in the morning) @ an average of 1462.4/share with a margin of 65%
Investment 511.84/share
Exdiv 28th September, dividend 33.0/share fully franked 14.14/share


----------



## rozella (19 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of SBC today @ 1468.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 513.80/share
Exdiv 28th September, dividend 33.0/share fully franked 14.14/share

Sold SSX today @ 153.5
Bought 9th September @ 153.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 53.55/share
Exdiv 19th September, dividend 4.5/share fully franked 1.93/share
Gross profit 5.0/share = 9.34% return on investment.  fc excluded.  10 day trade


----------



## The Estimator (19 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Damn Don, I should have started my dividend trading plan with warrants last week on SSX.  I was just looking at them then.  I thought ex-div was tomorrow.
Bought some PMN though.  Will see how that goes.  It all looks dandy on paper.  Gonna sign up at etrade too so I can get the trailing stop losses.  I need a system going.

John


----------



## rozella (19 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day The Estimator,

Yes, SSX is one that has come back to just above buy price on exdiv day....they don't all do that.

I made good $$$'s in short time on this one in two trades. 

Sold SSX today (7th Sept) @ 157.5
Bought 5th September @ 152.5 with a margin of 65%
Investment 53.375/share
Exdiv 19th September, dividend 4.5/share fully franked 1.93/share
Gross profit 5.0/share = 9.368% return on investment. 2 day trade
Will re-enter if situation permits

Then todays trade
Sold SSX today (19th Sept) @ 153.5
Bought 9th September @ 153.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 53.55/share
Exdiv 19th September, dividend 4.5/share fully franked 1.93/share
Gross profit 5.0/share = 9.34% return on investment. fc excluded. 10 day trade.

I prefer to take a profit when it is there, i.e. I set out to make the dividend my profit, so if the stock rises an amount approximately equal to the dividend, then flattens out, I sell & re-enter on a low day.  SSX  is a good example, but sometimes this can be done 3 or 4 times within 3/4 weeks.  Recent examples are WAN & ADB

rozella


----------



## rozella (20 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought smaller than usual parcels today of: ASB & HHV  I have not traded either before.

Bought ASB today @ 198.5 with a margin of 45%
Investment 109.175/share
exdiv 5th October, dividend 9.0/share fully franked 3.86/share

Bought HHV today @ 96.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 33.6/share
exdiv 30th September, dividend 3.0/share fully franked


----------



## rozella (26 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold 1 parcel of SBC today in bits & pieces averaging 1522.47
Bought 15th September in a mixed lot @ an average of 1462.4/share with a margin of 65%
Investment 511.84/share
Exdiv 28th September, dividend 33.0/share fully franked 14.14/share
Gross profit 60.07/share = 11.74% return on investment.  11 day trade.
Not much time left to re-enter for the dividend at a price around 1475/1480....but will see, it is ranging alot.


----------



## onebackpack (26 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

rozella, re your calculations:

It would be dangerous to use your margin loan right up to the maximum LVR with a high dividend payer.  If the share price falls 3-4% (or possibly much more) on ex-div day, you could be hit with a margin call.

Of course, if you time it perfectly and it runs up 3-4% between your purchase date and the ex-div date, you'll have nothing to worry about...


----------



## rozella (26 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold MCW today @ 203.0
Bought 22nd June @ 201.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 60.3/share
Exdiv 24th June, distribution 7.4/share, zero franked
Gross profit 9.4/share = 15.59% return on investment.  96 days


----------



## rozella (26 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day onebackpack,



> It would be dangerous to use your margin loan right up to the maximum LVR with a high dividend payer. If the share price falls 3-4% (or possibly much more) on ex-div day, you could be hit with a margin call.



I am mostly to the limit of my margin loan every day, & have never had a margin call (excluding CFD's which I don't use anymore), infact most of the time I am in the buffer zone.

My risk is as follows
I try to always have 10 stocks minimum, & 15 stocks maximum, with no stock being more than 15% of portfolio nomatter how good I think it may be.  I grade my stocks, e.g CBA, WES, WDC etc may be up to my 15% maximum of portfolio, & MCW, SBC, DRT, etc are usually 5% to 8% of portfolio....BSL I have atm & that is approx 10%.  My stoploss is 3% of purchase price, trailing up as the price increases, so if my largest holding of 15% dropped to my stoploss, then this would only be a drop of 0.45% of portfolio (not much damage done)  This also gives me room for not acting quick enough, & some discretion.

I adjust my stoploss down by the div + fc on exdiv day. 

The margin loan security is calculated on all the stocks collectively in the portfolio, not individually.

Margin loans have taught me to be disciplined, & to keep my housework up-to-date.  If you were in a position that you had a margin call, then they would be doing you a favour, making you do your job.  The only way I know to make a dollar in this game is to cull the losers.....its something that you can control, you can't make them go up, but you can stop them from going down.

Cheers


----------



## rozella (26 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold half of my remaining parcel of SBC @ 1525.0 today
Bought SBC on 19th September @ 1468.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 513.80/share
Exdiv 28th September, dividend 33.0/share fully franked 14.14/share
Gross profit 57.0/share = 11.09% return on investment.


----------



## rozella (27 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold BSL today @ 1009.0
Bought 23rd August @ 959.0 with a margin of 70% Investment 287.70/share
Exdiv 28th September, dividend including special 44.0/share fully franked.
Gross profit 50.0/share = 17.38% return on investment.  30 days


----------



## RodC (27 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Well done rozella,

I obviously flinched too early, I sold my BSL today for $10.02.

Rod.


----------



## rozella (27 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Rod,

I placed the order at 1010.0, but amended to 1009.0.......only a few went at 1010.0

rozella


----------



## rozella (27 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought FCL today @ 214.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 74.9/share
Exdiv 4th October, dividend 5.0/share fully franked 2.14/share


----------



## rozella (28 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold ASB today @ 209.0
Bought 20th September @ 198.5 with a margin of 45%
Investment 109.175/share
exdiv 5th October, dividend 9.0/share fully franked 3.86/share
Gross profit 10.5/share = 9.62% return on investment.  8 days


----------



## bonkers (28 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi yes my favourite form of investing trading is to usually start accumulating a good company around 6 weeks prior to div or other important date in company's calendar--such as AGM--studies have shown the shareprice will usually outperform over that period--doesn't always happen--most times I find it does though.
Regards,--BK.


----------



## rozella (28 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought SGB today @ 2780.0 with a margin of 75%  Investment 695.0/share.
Expected profit report 30th September.
Last years dividend was 62.0/share fully franked 26.587/share

rozella


----------



## rozella (28 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought DJS today @ 248.0 with a margin of 65%  Investment 86.80/share
exdiv 11th October, dividend 7.0/share fully franked.


----------



## bonkers (28 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi rozella, I'm into CPU--with an AGM date of November the 9th--I share your comments about margin---back when it was dropping a couple of years ago I was overextended on it--at around 2.00--saw it go down to 1.35--I was forced to sell higher--only to see Goldmans buy 26 million in one day at 1.35!
Had I not been overleveraged--I would have been able to survive! (anyway-long story--on a financial calamity I experienced at the time) I don't severely leverage--unless I have a stop loss in place and I'm prepared to lose a pre determined amount of money.
Regards,--BK.


----------



## rozella (28 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Yes bonkers, having a stoploss, risk management, & a set of rules to follow, is the key to consistant profits.

We have all broken the rules at some time & have been burnt.  As they say "If you burn your bum, you sit on the blisters"....how true.

rozella


----------



## The Estimator (28 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Bought SGB today @ 2780.0 with a margin of 75%  Investment 695.0/share.
> Expected profit report 30th September.
> Last years dividend was 62.0/share fully franked 26.587/share
> 
> rozella




Don, this is gonna be a broad range but any idea around what time exdiv would be.  Just so I have a bit of an idea for warrant expiry dates.  Seems like a bloody good div to get on.

Cheers

John


----------



## rozella (28 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day The Estimator,

They have not announced yet, but last year was 29th November.  This is on the last page of the exdividendwatchlist on the forecast sheet.


----------



## The Estimator (28 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Ta.  Yeah, thought it would be on the lsit but I was at work with my grubby little hand on works docs with my own private stuff out of reach at home hehe.  Plus my eyes were lit up when after realising there was a 290 installment warrant available for SGB.  But it expires on the 22 of december leaving little time for the warrant value to return to normal after the usual "exdiv day slump"

John


----------



## rozella (29 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold 1 parcel of CBA today @ 3878.0
Bought 10th August @ 3872.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 968.0/share
exdiv 15th August, dividend 112.0/share fully franked 48.0/share.
Gross profit 166.0/share = 17.15% return on investment.  50 days


----------



## rozella (30 September 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Been out of action most of the day, a huge spotted gum fell onto the power lines at 2.30am & upset 3 substations, so no electricity, & started work at 2.00pm

Extended closing matchout today was savage, but managed to dip a toe into the banks.

Bought ANZ on the close @ 2400.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 600.0/share
Profit announcement expected around 25th October, exdiv expected around 8th November, last years dividend was 54.0/share fully franked 23.14/share.

Bought WBC on the close @ 2110.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 527.50/share
Profit announcement expected around 3rd November, exdiv expected around 17th November, last years dividend was 44.0/share fully franked 18.86/share.

Sold PMN today @ 503.0
Bought 14th September @ 488.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 146.40/share
Exdiv date 10th October, dividend 10.5/share fully franked 4.50/share
Gross profit 15.0/share = 10.25% return on investment.


----------



## rozella (5 October 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of ANZ today @ 2382.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 595.50/share
Profit announcement expected around 25th October, exdiv expected around 8th November, last years dividend was 54.0/share fully franked 23.14/share.

Bought another parcel of DJS today @ 234.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 81.90/share
exdiv 11th October, dividend 7.0/share fully franked.


----------



## Kauri (5 October 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Bought SGB today @ 2780.0 with a margin of 75%  Investment 695.0/share.
> Expected profit report 30th September.
> Last years dividend was 62.0/share fully franked 26.587/share
> 
> rozella




  Just joined you in SGB..@2765... isn't the profit report due end of this month??


----------



## rozella (5 October 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Yes Kauri, I don't know why I said the profit announcement was 30th Sept, maybe confused it with their financial year end.  Last year they reported profits 1st November.

SGB Down 40.0 atm to 2753.0    XAO down 79.1 points  I was a bit too quick to buy ANZ this morning, down another 20.0 atm to 2362.0


----------



## rozella (5 October 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered PMN today where I sold at previously @ 503.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 150.90/share
Exdiv date 10th October, dividend 10.5/share fully franked 4.50/share


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (12 October 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,

You have probably discussed this before on the forum, but what indicators do you use for your strategy? How does a week like last week affect your strategy? How do you approach the rest of the month using your strategy?

Thanks in advance

Snake Pliskin


----------



## rozella (13 October 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I have not posted any trades for a while, not that there was many, so this is a catchup.  

Sold TEN 10th October @ 358.0
Bought 22nd June @ 400.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 120.0/share
Exdiv 27th June, dividend 9.0/share, fully franked.
Gross loss 29.14/share = 24.28% loss on investment.  110 days

Sold WDC 12th October @ 1654.0 
Bought 8th August @ 1790.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1147.5/share
Exdist 9th August, distribution 51.0/share, franking 12.57% 2.75/share
Gross loss 82.25/share = 7.17% loss on investment.  65 days

Sold WES 10th October @ 3897.0
Bought 12th August @ 4150.0 with a margin of 70% 
Investment 1245.0/share
Exdiv date 15th August, dividend 127.0/share fully franked 54.43/share
Gross loss 71.57/share = 5.75% loss on investment.  59 days

Sold CBA 12th October @ 3758.0
Bought 1st August @ 3906.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 976.5/share
Exdiv date 15th August, dividend 112.0/share fully franked 48.0/share
Gross profit 12.0/share = 1.23% return on investment.  72 days

No buys, have just been sitting on the fence.  No money above.....but needed to be done.


----------



## rozella (13 October 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> Hi Rozella,
> 
> You have probably discussed this before on the forum, but what indicators do you use for your strategy? How does a week like last week affect your strategy? How do you approach the rest of the month using your strategy?
> 
> ...



G'day Snake Pliskin,

I only eyeball charts now, just to see the overall picture, & rely on " The lure of the dividend, giving a stock a reason to rise " plus other criteria, then use stoplosses & position sizes to limit risk......although I did let the above sells go too far.....it rarely pays.  This last week was a loss, but when I re-enter with other stocks they will be at lower prices & the strategy will be on track again.  I am reasonably cashed up now to take advantage of lower prices if I think the timing suits.


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (13 October 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Rozella,

Thanks.  
Snake


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (17 October 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,

I have another question regarding your dividend trading strategy.

How does it perform in a bear market or sideways market? Is it only a strategy that works in a bull market?

Thanks in advance.

Snake


----------



## rozella (17 October 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Snake Pliskin,

The most difficult period is like now, when we have had a sharp drop, so to be disciplined with stops is very important.  Then all new purchases are starting on a lower rung of the ladder.

e.g. The trading on my website using eod data, selling only when the stops are hit, & allowing profits to run, leaves us with only one stock atm PMN, but we are cashed up sitting on the fence to see where the market is going.  Entries into the banks will start soon, hopefully this week.
Margin Trading 2 

Trading Diary 2 

In a bear market I have found I can still make a living from the strategy, but you must be prepared to accept smaller trading profits & sometimes less than the dividend amount.  i.e. Buy XXX @ 1000.0, dividend 30.0, sell after exdiv @ 995.0......gross profit 25.0  Whereas for best part of the last two years we possibly would have a gross profit of 40.0 or 50.0  But yes, you can still do okay in a bear market, but it is up to the individual trader to be focused...yields are higher as well.  The volume of trades increases too.


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (17 October 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Rozella,

Thanks
Snake


----------



## RichKid (18 October 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Some thoughts from Marcus Padley (a well known broker) on dividend stripping, thought it would be relevant to this thread: http://www.marcustoday.com.au/pdf/Dividendstripping.pdf


----------



## wayneL (18 October 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				RichKid said:
			
		

> Some thoughts from Marcus Padley (a well known broker) on dividend stripping, thought it would be relevant to this thread: http://www.marcustoday.com.au/pdf/Dividendstripping.pdf




Interesting RK.

This caught my eye though:



> to qualify for the franking credit and you must have the risk on the stock for the entire
> period[b[ (can’t hedge)[/b].




Does this mean you can't buy a put on the stock?

This seems a tad mean spirited of the ATO.

Cheers


----------



## rozella (19 October 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Holding period rule  from the ATO site
The holding period rule requires you to hold shares ‘at risk’ for at least 45 days (90 days for preference shares) to be eligible for the franking tax offset. This rule, however, does not apply if your total franking credit entitlement is below $5,000. This is roughly equivalent to receiving a fully franked dividend of $11,666, based on the current tax rate of 30% for companies.

All this means is that you must own shares for at least 45 days, or 90 days for preference shares (not counting the day of acquisition or disposal), before being entitled to any franking tax offset.

*Days on which you have 30% or less of the ordinary financial risks of loss and opportunities for gain from owning the shares cannot be counted in determining whether you hold the shares for the required period.* 

*Financial risk of owning shares may be reduced through arrangements such as hedges, options and futures.* 

You have to satisfy the holding period rule once only for each purchase of shares. You are then entitled to the franking credits attached to those shares, unless the Related payments rule applies.

rozella


----------



## wayneL (19 October 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Holding period rule  from the ATO site
> The holding period rule requires you to hold shares ‘at risk’ for at least 45 days (90 days for preference shares) to be eligible for the franking tax offset. This rule, however, does not apply if your total franking credit entitlement is below $5,000. This is roughly equivalent to receiving a fully franked dividend of $11,666, based on the current tax rate of 30% for companies.
> 
> All this means is that you must own shares for at least 45 days, or 90 days for preference shares (not counting the day of acquisition or disposal), before being entitled to any franking tax offset.
> ...





So you CAN hedge with options etc?


----------



## rozella (19 October 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day wayneL,

This is the link holding period rule


----------



## mit (19 October 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Entries into the banks will start soon, hopefully this week.




Rozella,

What are you looking for before you'll enter again? My mechanical dividend system has me out of most stocks at the moment as well and I have to struggle against trying to bottom pick the market.

MIT


----------



## rozella (19 October 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day mit,

Nothing more than the ANZ is expected to report on 25th October, followed by WBC on 3rd November, & so on, so one would expect the bank prices to gain a bit of momentum shortly.

If it was not for the lure of the dividend to drive up prices, & that alone, I would not have any interest in banks atm


----------



## finnsk (20 October 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I have been looking at NHC my main and only reason for that is dividend they are paying 3 cents and a special of 13 cents and 10 cents capital return if approved by shareholders  
It sounds like a very good short term investment providing  share price stays where it is currently at $1.65.
Any comments appriciated.


----------



## kaveman (20 October 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Provided there are no other influences the share price would normally be expected to fall by the amount of cash/share the company sends to shareholders. This fall will also include in imputation credits included in the dividend. Unless the price recovers soon after the record date then your nett change could be zero. This of course would be based on the closing price on the record date, and the price the next day, quite often the opening price gaps down from the closing price


----------



## rozella (20 October 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Is that a slip of the fingers, kaveman ? .....I think you mean exdiv date not the record date.

The day before when NHC announced their profit report they were trading around 131.0, & now they are at 165.0 today, so it seems that all the divs plus most of the proposed capital return is already factored into the price.  What will happen on exdiv day ?  I agree with kaveman, & always allow that the price will drop by the div + fc.  Question is, how long will it take a stock like this to recover ?

Its dividend has been doubled plus an additional 13.0 special div. all fully franked.


----------



## rozella (24 October 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

ANZ is making some movement in a positive direction atm, ahead of their profit report tomorrow.



> Banking analysts expect ANZ to achieve a net profit of just over $3 billion for its 2004/05 year, up from the previous year's $2.815 billion result.




newspaper article


----------



## rozella (26 October 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of ANZ today @ 2318.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 579.50/share
Exdiv 8th November, dividend 59.0/share fully franked 25.29/share


----------



## happytrader (26 October 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

There sure is a connection.

There's usually a greed run up to the profit report even if it is only short. Then a quick dump on the day of the profit report. Its got nothing to do with how good the report is. Its about where the share is in its monthly range and about how much money can be made before the share goes exdividend. Think in bucks. That is my observance at these times anyway. 

Anything I say is not to be taken as financial advice or recommendations. I could be a raving looney for all you know.

Cheers
Happytrader


----------



## rozella (28 October 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought BOQ on 27th October @ 1376.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 412.80/share
Exdiv 7th November, dividend 40.0/share fully franked 17.14/share


----------



## rozella (31 October 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

SGB has opened cautiously after the report, however I bought another parcel on the open.

Bought SGB on the open today @ 2751.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 687.75/share
Exdiv 28th November, dividend 70.0/share fully franked


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (31 October 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> SGB has opened cautiously after the report, however I bought another parcel on the open.
> 
> Bought SGB on the open today @ 2751.0 with a margin of 75%
> Investment 687.75/share
> Exdiv 28th November, dividend 70.0/share fully franked




Hi Rozella,

You state you bought on the open.

Does that mean you buy/sell as soon as the market is open?

I usually wait for the first half an hour to go by before buying. I do see some benefit in selling in the first half hour though.


----------



## rozella (31 October 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Snake Pliskin,

I usually buy the day after the announcement when the dust settles, but in this case the DOW was up so much, I expected a good day, & was trying to be greedy with SGB.  I still think there was some over reaction but it is up to the market to decide.  Same thing happened with ANZ, but it is on the move now.....just could have bought it cheaper.

St George delivers record profit but disappoints on margin 

I do more selling on the close than any other period.


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (31 October 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thanks Rozella.


----------



## rozella (1 November 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Just sold my last parcel of CBA today.....it may have a bit more in it today, but it has been a while returning back to this price & I need the proceeds to start financing some LPT's which report later in December.  As I type it has jumped up another 3 cents but I wanted to sell today & I am getting hungry.....I mean the food type hungry, & we all know what can happen in the few minutes when you make a cuppa & a sandwich.

Sold CBA today @ 3912.0
Bought 1st August @ 3906.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 976.5/share
Dividend was 112.0/share fully franked 48.0/share.
Gross profit 166.0/share = 17% return on investment.  92 days


----------



## rozella (3 November 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of BOQ today @ 1407.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 422.10/share
Exdiv 7th November, dividend 40.0/share fully franked 17.14/share


----------



## rozella (3 November 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought ENV today @ 120.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 42.0/share
Exdiv 7th November, div 5.7/share zero franked


----------



## rozella (8 November 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold WBC today @ 2161.0
Bought on the 30th September @ 2110.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 527.50/share
Exdiv 17th November, dividend 51.0/share fully franked 21.86/share
Gross profit 51.0/share = 9.67% return on investment.  39 days

Sold 1 parcel of SGB today @ 2821.0
Bought 31st October @ 2751.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 687.75/share
Exdiv 28th November, dividend 70.0/share fully franked 30.0/share
Gross profit 70.0/share = 10.18% return on investment.  8 days

Will see if I can buy back at a lower price for both on a low day prior to exdiv.


----------



## rozella (9 November 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

WBC & SGB performed reasonably well on a down day, so I re-entered.

Bought WBC near the close @ 2163.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 540.75/share
Exdiv 17th November, dividend 51.0/share fully franked 21.86/share

Bought SGB on the close @ 2815.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 703.75/share
Exdiv 28th November, dividend 70.0/share fully franked 30.0/share


----------



## rozella (15 November 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Yet another good day for the dividend traders, no buys or sells, although I was tempted to take another profit from SGB.....it has closed up 84.0 cents on my last purchase 4 trading days ago. The div is 70.0 cents.

I assume most of the dividend traders would have similar stocks atm, & I have been well up 9 out of the last 12 trading days, without much trading, mainly monitoring & doing paperwork.


----------



## mit (15 November 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Rozella,

Just checked and the total over the last twelve days have been well above average. Just noticed that after buying CNP today I am almost back to a full portfolio for the first time since the correction in October.

MIT


----------



## rozella (15 November 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Looks like we are on the same see-saw mit.


----------



## rozella (16 November 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold HHV today @ 96.0
Bought 20th september @ 96.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 33.6/share
exdiv 30th September, dividend 3.0/share fully franked 1.286/share
Gross profit 4.286/share = 12.75% return on investment.  57 days


----------



## rozella (16 November 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold WBC today on the close prior to exdiv tomorrow @ 2288.0 (was sitting in @ 2300.0 prior to close & should have taken 2298.0/2299.0)
Bought 9th November @ 2163.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 540.75/share
Exdiv 17th November, dividend 51.0/share fully franked 21.86/share
Gross profit 125.0/share = 23.11% return on investment.  7 days


----------



## rozella (17 November 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Just back from golf to see that Mrs "rozella" has sold PMN & a parcel of BOQ

Sold BOQ today @ 1407.0
Bought on 3rd November @ 1407.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 422.10/share
Exdiv 7th November, dividend 40.0/share fully franked 17.14/share
Gross profit 40.0/share = 9.47% return on investment, excluding franking.  14 days

Sold PMN today @ 503.0
Bought on 5th October @ 503.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 150.90/share
Exdiv date 10th October, dividend 10.5/share fully franked 4.50/share
Gross profit 10.5/share = 6.96% return on investment.  43 days


----------



## rozella (17 November 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold one parcel of ANZ today @ 2404.0
Bought on 30th September @ 2400.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 600.0/share
Exdiv 8th November, dividend 59.0/share fully franked 25.29/share.
Gross profit 88.29/share = 14.71% return on investment.  48 days

Bought SIG today @ 1304.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 456.4/share
Exdiv 5th December, dividend & special dividend 49.0/share fully franked 21.0/share


----------



## rozella (18 November 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold DJS today @ 250.75 average
Bought 5th october @ 234.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 81.90/share
exdiv 11th October, dividend 7.0/share fully franked.
Gross profit 23.75/share = 29.0% return on investment.  44 days

Bought VBA today @ 189.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 66.15/share
Exdiv 22nd November, dividend 25.0 fully franked 10.71/share

Bought NAB today @ 3365.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 841.25/share
Exdiv 21st November, dividend 83.0/share 80% franked 28.46/share

Bought another parcel of SGB today @ 2922.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 730.50/share
Exdiv 28th November, dividend 70.0/share fully franked

Re-entered WBC today @ 2221.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 555.25/share
exdiv yesterday
U buyer & seller on 2220/2221 now......mmmm

Re-entered ANZ today @ 2396.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 599.0/share
exdiv gone on 8th November
Short term trade


----------



## rozella (18 November 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Jumped out of WBC on the close @ 2224.0
Bought today @ 2221.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 555.25/share
exdiv yesterday
Gross profit 3.0/share = 0.54% return on investment.
Decided against the trade

Topped up my morning trade of NAB on the close @ 3345.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 836.25/share
Exdiv 21st November, dividend 83.0/share 80% franked 28.46/share


----------



## rozella (19 November 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

The exdividendwatchlist has recouped all losses incurred in the October correction & is now at a new high.  Margin Trading 2 & Trading Diary 2


----------



## rozella (21 November 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought PRK today @ 730.0 with a margin of 70% 
Investment 219.0/share
Exdiv 5th December, div + special div = 32.0/share fully franked 13.72/share


----------



## sam21poddy (22 November 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

rozella,

I'm interested in how you overcome the dilemma of having to hold onto a share for 45 days to retain the franking credit.  For example, I purchased 1000 NAB shares at 32.83 on 11/11 and would liked to have sold yesterday (at a small profit) or today (to break even on price) but am pressured into holding on for the required 45 days to get the franking credit. Now the price is falling (currently around 32.60) and holding costs will be eroding the profit. I want the franking credits but it is annoying having to hold - what are your thoughts?


----------



## rozella (22 November 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day sam21poddy,

It is a matter of a mathematical calculation, whether to forego the franking credit or not.  NAB's franking credit is 28.46/share, you will need to hold until the 1st trading day after 26th December to qualify for fc, unless your total franking credits for this year will be under $5000 per tax entity.

I have found that unless I am almost on the 45 days + buy + sell days, I don't allow the fc to influence my trading.

I paid 3364.7/share on 18th November (day before exdiv)  My stoploss was 3264.0 - (div+fc) = 3264.0 - (83.0+28.46) = 3153.0 which was my new stoploss for yesterday.  It closed @ 3276.0 which then makes my trailing stop 3178.0 for today.  However, if it reaches my buy price or better in the next week, I will probably exit profiting just the 83.0 cent dividend, & move on to the next.

The banking sector is down 0.36% atm, & NAB is down 0.31% so I would not expect it to behave much better.  3267.0 now at 12:44pm


----------



## rozella (24 November 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Last day tomorrow before exdiv on Monday 28th November for SGB.....big rise today up 60.0 cents @ 2961.0......reached 2994.0 earlier today.

It may hit the 3000.0 tomorrow, but might pull back on the close.

Dividend 70.0/share, franking 30.0/share. O'seas shareholders may dump tomorrow as they are not entitled to the franking......see what happens !!!


----------



## tarnor (25 November 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Rozella whats your take on PBD.. 40c divi coming soon sp currently at 2.20ish extra 20c one coming possibly by feb/march next year..

looks like a steal..
opinion would be greatly appreciated cheers..


----------



## rozella (25 November 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day tarnor,

Its a nice chart......& will look better after todays announcement.....up 16.9% atm today.

Lowish volume stock & does not do many daily transactions.

I usually don't trade it as my marginlenders don't have them listed...so not on my radar.

Its on the move now up 17.95%


----------



## rozella (28 November 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought CDO today @ 474.0 with a margin of 60%
Investment 189.6/share
Exdiv 5th December, special div 40.0/share fully franked 17.14/share


----------



## rozella (30 November 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold a parcel of ANZ today @ 2405.0
Bought 5th October @ 2382.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 595.50/share
Exdiv 8th November, dividend 59.0/share fully franked 25.29/share
Gross profit 107.29/share = 18.02% return on investment.  56 days.


----------



## rozella (30 November 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Decided I would not become involved with the SIG/AWP merger, as I like uncomplicated trades & then I know where I am going.  So I took the opportunity of a strong market today & sold SIG @ 1350.0, but it looks as though it still has some *go* left in it.

Sold SIG today @ 1350.0
Bought 17th November @ 1304.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 456.4/share
Exdiv 5th December, dividend & special dividend 49.0/share fully franked 21.0/share
Gross profit 46.0/share = 10.08% return on investment.  13 days


----------



## rozella (2 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought CNP today @ 618.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 185.4/share
Distribution announcement expected the middle of December, distribution last year was 16.0/share zero franked.


----------



## rozella (7 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold PRK today @ 737.0
Bought 21st November @ 730.0 with a margin of 70% 
Investment 219.0/share
Exdiv 5th December, div + special div = 32.0/share fully franked 13.72/share
Gross profit 39.0/share = 17.81% return on investment.  (franking excl.) 16 days


----------



## rozella (7 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold a parcel of SGB today @ average 2817.0
Bought 28th September @ 2780.0 with a margin of 75% Investment 695.0/share.
Dividend 70.0/share fully franked 30.0/share
Gross profit 137.0/share = 19.71% return on investment.  70days

2 parcels to go.


----------



## rozella (8 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold my 2nd parcel of SGB today @ 2824.0
Bought 9th November @ 2815.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 703.75/share
Exdiv 28th November, dividend 70.0/share fully franked 30.0/share
Gross profit 79.0/share = 11.22% return on investment.  (franking excl.) 29 days


----------



## michael_selway (8 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Sold my 2nd parcel of SGB today @ 2824.0
> Bought 9th November @ 2815.0 with a margin of 75%
> Investment 703.75/share
> Exdiv 28th November, dividend 70.0/share fully franked 30.0/share
> Gross profit 79.0/share = 11.22% return on investment.  (franking excl.) 29 days




hi have u ever made a loss with these sort of trades?

Thanks

MS


----------



## rozella (8 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Michael,



> hi have u ever made a loss with these sort of trades?



Absolutely, but the last few years have been very good.

I have only traded a bit over half of last years trades, over the same period, but the bottom line is very similar.

This year I have only had 46 purchases, with 31 wins, 4 losses, & 11 trades still open.


----------



## rozella (8 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought TCL today @ 680.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 204.0/share
Exdistribution 23rd December, distribution 24.5/unit, zero franked.


----------



## rozella (8 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of CNP on the close @ 616.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 184.8/share
Distribution announcement expected the middle of December, distribution last year was 16.0/share zero franked.


----------



## rozella (14 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold both parcels of CNP today prior to distribution announcement.

Sold CNP today @ 645.0
Bought 2nd December @ 618.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 185.4/share
Distribution announcement expected the middle of December, distribution last year was 16.0/share zero franked.
Gross profit 27.0/share = 14.56% return on investment.  12 days

Sold CNP today @ 645.0
Bought 8th December @ 616.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 184.8/share
Distribution announcement expected the middle of December, distribution last year was 16.0/share zero franked.
Gross profit 29.0/share = 15.69% return on investment.  6 days


----------



## WaySolid (14 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Guess you will be looking to get straight back in after the announcement Don? 

Whats the history of the LPT's with regards their reactions to the announcements.

Cheers,
Andrew.


----------



## rozella (14 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Andrew,

I will see what happens with CNP, but there will be about 30 LPT's report anytime from now on.....be nice to be back in at about 630.0

BWP reported today & is up 2.0/unit (1%) with a distribution of 6.19/unit, & JFM is down 0.5/unit (0.4%)

LPT's are not as sleepy as some think, if you look at SGP, MCW, CNP, CPA, GAN etc ......& all those LPT's that pay a distribution twice per year.....check out their charts.  There are many that pay quarterly, so their prices don't jump as much.

rozella


----------



## rozella (15 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Just back from golf to find that my last parcel of BOQ was sold on the open.

Sold BOQ today on open @ 1430.0
Bought on 27th October @ 1376.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 412.80/share
Exdiv 7th November, dividend 40.0/share fully franked 17.14/share
Gross profit 111.14/share = 26.92% return on investment.  49 days


----------



## rozella (19 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Plenty to do today, we have had 36 announce distributions/dividends up to now, with still about 2 hours of reporting still to come. 

Bought IPG today @ 209.9 with a margin of 70% 
Investment 62.97/unit 
Exdist date 22nd December, distribution 8.5/unit zero franked 

Bought DUE today @ 253.0 with a margin of 65% 
Investment 88.55/unit 
Exdist date 22nd December, distribution 11.75/unit zero franked


----------



## mit (19 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Rozella,
Big Day on Thursday about 80% of my portfolio goes ex-div.

Michael


----------



## michael_selway (19 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Plenty to do today, we have had 36 announce distributions/dividends up to now, with still about 2 hours of reporting still to come.
> 
> Bought IPG today @ 209.9 with a margin of 70%
> Investment 62.97/unit
> ...




wow amazing! btw how many days before ex dividend do u generally buy into the stock?

Thanks


----------



## rozella (19 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day mit

Sometimes you can snag a sell at the right price on exdist day with the LPT's, but you can't count on it.  At least you don't need to worry about missing out on franking with them, as most are zero franked


----------



## rozella (19 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Michael

I left my run a bit late with those two as I was too greedy, I would not pay the price earlier & finished up paying more.  DUE may go okay as the distribution is 23.7% better than last year, but I don't count on anything running to plan, & just deal with it as it comes.



> btw how many days before ex dividend do u generally buy into the stock?



I have never been able to find a common point of entry as far a days go,...what may be the right number of days last year may be the worst this year.......when you find out let me know...ha-ha


----------



## michael_selway (19 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> G'day Michael
> 
> I left my run a bit late with those two as I was too greedy, I would not pay the price earlier & finished up paying more.  DUE may go okay as the distribution is 23.7% better than last year, but I don't count on anything running to plan, & just deal with it as it comes.
> 
> ...




Oh ok, maybe a week or 2, or when u notice a upward trend close to the date?

btw you going to buy MXG? it went down today but also annouced 8c dividend 22/12/05 ex div i think.


----------



## Milk Man (19 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,
Have you ever considered what the effect of using cfds woulds be. That is using them just on periods 1 and 2. They dont factor in franking credits do they? Just interested in your thoughts.


----------



## rozella (19 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Milk Man,

It has been sometime since I have used CFD's......it was when CMC was called "deal for free".  I ran an account at the same time as my normal marginlending account for about 18 months, but it did not work with my strategy, so I gave it away.  I think CFD's are a good product for the right strategy, but it did not suit me at the time.

I keep saying to myself that I should give it another go....times change, but this time around I would ride the stock upto near the exdiv date & not stay for the dividend.

I used to have the CFD's div yields on my daily exdiv list, but when others began using it, I removed it, as it could have been misleading with telephone number yields.

They used to compensate for the franking credits as well as the dividend when they started.  I suppose when they stopped paying them, & added a commission, it made my mind up to leave it.

Cheers,


----------



## rozella (20 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought MCW today @ 202.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 70.7/share
Exdist 22nd December, distribution 7.6/unit zero franked


----------



## mit (20 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> G'day mit
> 
> Sometimes you can snag a sell at the right price on exdist day with the LPT's, but you can't count on it.  At least you don't need to worry about missing out on franking with them, as most are zero franked




I always sell on ex-div day so I'll be lighter on Thursday.



			
				Milk Man said:
			
		

> Hi Rozella,
> Have you ever considered what the effect of using cfds woulds be. That is using them just on periods 1 and 2. They dont factor in franking credits do they? Just interested in your thoughts.




I've just opened an account with Macquarie CFDs to do my dividend system. I am going to go 50% CFDs and 50% margin loan. The DMA was what decided me as I like to finesse my entries and exits and you can't do that easily with a marketmaker. Note that a lot of the shares that Rozella trades would not be available with a CFD supplier.

MIT

MIT


----------



## rozella (20 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought SGP today @ 660.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 198.0/unit
Exdist 22nd December, distribution 20.5/unit, franked to 21.77%


----------



## robots (21 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

hello,

my understanding with CFD's on ex-div date is that:

if you went long (bought) you get the dividend, price will "typically" go down (move) in line with share price

if you went short (sold) you pay the dividend, price offered will "typically" go down in line with share price

cfd's are nothing more than a "punt" on the movement of a share, index etc.

regards
robots


----------



## rozella (21 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thats right robots, except that you are not compensated for franking credits.  Stocks often drop div + fc on exdiv day, depending on the state of the market.  I always allow for the div + fc

I have 6 going exdiv tomorrow, which will dent the margin loan a bit.


----------



## Milk Man (22 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thanks for the replies guys. I was thinking of buying before the div announcement and sell just shy of ex-div. The only other way would be to hold onto zero-franked stuff. Do you reckon you have gotten better gains before or after ex-div? :bier:


----------



## rozella (22 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Milk Man,

My opinion (not advice) if you are using CFD's, is to sell prior to exdiv, maybe 2 days before, as a lot of international traders dump the day before exdiv, as they are not entitled to the franking credits.

Big day today for dividend trading, as 66 stocks are quoted exdiv that I have on my list.  It is a very ordinary day, so on the average, they have dropped the full dividend/distribution.....no loss, no gain.  I only hold 6 of them, the worst being IPG, the rest are as expected.

rozella


----------



## mit (22 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Rozella,

I thought I noticed the same thing, but when I tried to backtest a simple system (Entry 25 days before div date with a bullish filter). I got the following results for the average annual return from 1998.

Days before ex-div date            % Annual return
1                                           23%
2                                           21%
3                                           19%

However the return by selling on the open of the ex-div day is 25%. This is not including the Franking credits.

MIT


----------



## rozella (22 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day mit

It is very difficult to find a common entry point.....last year would be different, & next year will be different again.

The market was negative today.....the outcome would be completly different if say we had yesterdays +43.2 points.


----------



## Milk Man (22 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				mit said:
			
		

> Rozella,
> 
> I thought I noticed the same thing, but when I tried to backtest a simple system (Entry 25 days before div date with a bullish filter). I got the following results for the average annual return from 1998.
> 
> ...




Hey dude,
A few questions.
-what leverage involved (any)?
-whats the bullish filter?
-why is the sky blue?


----------



## mit (22 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				Milk Man said:
			
		

> Hey dude,
> A few questions.
> -what leverage involved (any)?
> -whats the bullish filter?
> -why is the sky blue?




No leverage. 6.5% maximum drawdown so it is good to have leveraged. Filter is basically a short ema higher than a long ema. I wasn't really demonstrating a system just showing the effect of selling on different days.

regards
Michael


----------



## Milk Man (23 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thanks MIT, sounds like its a goer. 

Rozella, how hard would it be to accurately pick the ex-div day 25 days out? I noticed on your list theres some predicted div dates. How accurate do you think using last years date would be?


----------



## rozella (23 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Some of the forecasted dates the companies have actually published, but they always have a disclaimer & are subject to change.  We really can't be sure until they announce, but they should be good to within a few days, depending on weekends etc.


----------



## money tree (23 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> My opinion (not advice) if you are using CFD's, is to sell prior to exdiv, maybe 2 days before, as a lot of international traders dump the day before exdiv, as they are not entitled to the franking credits.




There is no data to support this view. There is in fact a positive bias on the cum-div day. 

If you are using CFDs to div strip you have rocks in your head. The key part of the div strip is the 'stripping' of the franking credits away from the cash div. There are no FCs with a CFD so there is nothing to strip.

I wonder Rozella what your equity chart would look like if you simply invested on margin during a bull run......I suspect the majority of profit is from being leveraged into a massively rising market, and NOT from some div phenomenon.


----------



## rozella (23 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

moneytree,



> There is no data to support this view. There is in fact a positive bias on the cum-div day.



As I said, this is my opinion, & my observation.



> If you are using CFDs to div strip you have rocks in your head. The key part of the div strip is the 'stripping' of the franking credits away from the cash div. There are no FCs with a CFD so there is nothing to strip.



I think we all know that.



> I wonder Rozella what your equity chart would look like if you simply invested on margin during a bull run......I suspect the majority of profit is from being leveraged into a massively rising market, and NOT from some div phenomenon.



It would be a smoother rise.  The dividend income would be similar, but the trading profits would be greater.


----------



## mit (23 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Some of the forecasted dates the companies have actually published, but they always have a disclaimer & are subject to change.  We really can't be sure until they announce, but they should be good to within a few days, depending on weekends etc.




I have been doing this since March and 25 days is the optimal peak but the curve is reasonably flat at this point. So being out a day or two either way doesn't make much difference.

I buy 35 days before so I can pick up the franking credits and that's where I have to be careful to check before ex-div day to make sure I have held long enough or I sell before the ex-div date (Make one mistake and you lose all of the franking credits arrgh).

MoneyTree,

Check Rozella's posts here and at ReefCap. He has made a decent return every year even during the tech crash and sept/11. 

MIT


----------



## rozella (23 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I believe that *"The lure of the dividend, gives a stock a reason to rise"*  so whatever strategy a trader uses to capture this, is up to them.  I do not wish to promote any particular method of doing this, each trader needs to develop their own trading plan, just as mit is doing.


----------



## RichKid (28 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				crashy said:
			
		

> ghoti
> 
> due to the 45 day rule for franking credits, there is often buying occuring for 45 days before the div, and selling for 45 days afterward. Smart investors buy 45 (47) days before the div, and sell ex-div day. Amateurs buy on the cum-div day and sell 45 days later.
> Of course this assumes the stock would otherwise be stable, which rarely happens. generally its best to buy ex-div when overall market sentiment is positive.




Crashy, 
Thanks very much for clearing that up, I hadn't seen that point mentioned til I searched for it today, I assumed it was always 45 days after- which makes me an amateur. Doesn't really affect me atm as I wont have $5k of divs since I'm mainly a trader. Nice clear explanation, I'll have to read the ATO stuff again now.


----------



## bullmarket (29 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi everyone

My understanding of the 45 day rule is that it only applies if you have held the shares for 45 days (not including buy and sell dates) 'around' the ex-div date and if your total annual franking credits (not dividends) is more than $5,000.00. You also must have held the shares 'at risk' during those 45 days.  I'm not sure exactly what that means, but basically you can't have also  bought things like options or derivatives to hedge against up or down movements in the share price during the 45 days.

By 'around' I mean that if you bought the shares 10 days before the ex-div date then you will have to hold them for at least 35 days after the ex-div date to be allowed to claim the franking credits, although you obviously still collect the div regardless of when you sell on or after ex-div date.

But I am not a tax adviser so please take the above as a guide only and confirm with your tax adviser or the ATO if any of the above applies to you and your circumstances before acting.

cheers 

bullmarket


----------



## rozella (29 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Yes, what you say is correct bullmarket.  I am not a financial advisor either, but have been doing this for a reasonable length of time, but this is not advice, & you should have an independant expert interpretation.

However, each individual tax entity can receive $11667 in dividends if they are all fully franked, ($5000) & be exempt by trading under 45 days + buy & sell days, but if you mix in zero franked stocks such as the LPT's, you should be able to easily achieve $18000 in dividends.  So now if you & your spouse or partner both have tax file nos, & you buy jointly, then you could achieve $36000 in dividends between you & trade under 45 days.  But go $1 over each & you lose the exemption, & then only those trades that are over the 45days + buy & sell days can be claimed for franking credits.

You need to be very careful that hanging out for the 45 day +, does not influence your trading either.  i.e losing 50 cents because the stock drops, in order to receive 25 cents franking is ridiculas....but this can easily happen.

The problem comes when you are close to the 45+days, as with one of my trades atm.  SGB I bought for 2922.0 on 18th November ( 41 days today...so I can sell next Tues & keep the FC which is another 30.0 cents/share)  It is up 4.0 atm @ 2984.0, plus I will receive 70.0 dividend either way, so really I now have a stoploss of what?.....15.0 cents


----------



## robots (29 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Bought TCL today @ 680.0 with a margin of 70%
> Investment 204.0/share
> Exdistribution 23rd December, distribution 24.5/unit, zero franked.




hello rozella,

with a margin loan, you provide cash or equities to "secure" the loan.

so, if you already owned $20,000.0 of CBA shares you could borrow say $15,000.0 against this holding (75% lending ratio)

so the margin loan lender says "here rozella , go and buy whatever you want on the market with that $15,000.00"

and you have bought TCL at 680.00/share and I assume paying the full price for the share, ie. if bought 1000 shares would cost $6,800.0

in your post you mention: bought TCL with 70% margin, therefore investment 204.0/share

did you buy TCL for 680.0/share?

thankyou
robots


----------



## Stan 101 (29 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Robot, I think I can answer this one for you. Rozella might like to expand.

with a 70% margin, Rozella only outlayed 30% of his own capital to purchase the TCL shares and 70% came from the margin loan.

in effect, Rozella only had to come up with $2.04 per share and the margin loan picked up the remainder of the $6.80. 

That's the essence of leverage or gearing, allows you to purchase more than you have the capital for which gives you the option to lose more, or gain more.


All the best,


----------



## rozella (29 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day robots,



> so, if you already owned $20,000.0 of CBA shares you could borrow say $15,000.0 against this holding (75% lending ratio)



If you own CBA i.e. $20,000, this is your investment, so you can "mortgage" for want of a word, with your CBA as security.  The lender will allow you to use 75% of the last price or ask price, whichever is the lower, for whatever you want it for......you can take it out if you want to.

If you choose to leave it in, you can now use that $15000 as "deposit" to purchase more stocks.
e.g. 
Buy $20000 of SGB....LVR is 75% investment $5000
Buy $20000 of ANZ....LVR is 75% investment $5000
Buy $20000 of WDC...LVR is 75% investment $5000

So now you have $80,000 of shares maximum including CBA, & depending on the marginlender, they then give you a buffer of 5% or 10%, we will say 5%, which means that although you have used all your loan to the maximum, they will allow a 5% of $80,000 drop before they give you a margin call i.e. $4000



> and you have bought TCL at 680.00/share and I assume paying the full price for the share, ie. if bought 1000 shares would cost $6,800.0



Although we may buy 1000 TCL @ 680.0 = $6800 we only need to invest 30% because the marginlender puts up the other 70%, so our investment is $2040 & we borrow $4760 with TCL as security.  It is just like buying real estate.

Is that what you were asking ?


----------



## robots (29 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> G'day robots,
> Although we may buy 1000 TCL @ 680.0 = $6800 we only need to invest 30% because the marginlender puts up the other 70%, so our investment is $2040 & we borrow $4760 with TCL as security.  It is just like buying real estate.




"the margin lender puts up the other 70%"

how does this occur?

how do you put up TCL as security? you have just purchased this stock with a margin loan (ie. the $15,000.00 you were loaned)

look forward to responses
thanks
robots


----------



## tech/a (29 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

TCL has a value and as the margin is 30% then the full 100% value is pretty good security.
Like putting 30% deposit in cash on a house,the bank takes a mortgage out on the house--the whole house not 70% of it.


----------



## robots (29 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

hello,

getting back to original example, my current holding of $20,000.0 CBA allowed be to borrow $15,000.00 (margin loan)

I then purchsed 1000 x TCL for $6800.0, paid out of my margin loan account which had a starting balance of $15,000.0

TCL may rise or fall but you have still outlayed $6,800.0 for TCL

the TCL can then be used as security to obtain more funds ie. 70% lending ratio and further purchases can be made

is this what happens?

thanks
robots


----------



## rozella (30 December 2005)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day robots,

When you buy $6800 of TCL, you now have $15000 - $2040 = $12960 left available to buy more stocks with.



> how do you put up TCL as security? you have just purchased this stock with a margin loan (ie. the $15,000.00 you were loaned)



You are borrowing against the assets that you own.  i.e. CBA + TCL

The marginlender becomes the chess sponsor & has the stocks as security, just as a bank does when you buy real estate.

Here are two marginlenders sites to browse:
Leveraged Equities 
BT Equities 

You will find a list of stocks on these sites which gives you the margin % they will lend on each stock.

Also you can go to my website marginlending page, where you will see the transactions for the last six months.  This will give you a better understanding of how a margin loan works.
Margin Trading 2


----------



## rozella (4 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

A good proportion of my stocks bought in December for the dividends are almost back to their buy prices.

Sold TCL today @ 680.0
Bought 8th December @ 680.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 204.0/share
Exdistribution 23rd December, distribution 24.5/unit, zero franked.
Gross profit 24.5/unit = 12.01% return on investment.  27 days


----------



## rozella (4 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold 1 parcel of WDC today @ 1824.0
Bought 8th August @ 1790.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 447.5/share
Exdist 9th August, distribution 51.07/share, franking 12.57% 2.75/share
Gross profit 87.82/share = 19.62% return on investment.   149 days

WDC is due to report approx 3rd February for another exdist approx 8th February.
I will try for a re-entry on a low day.  Also I still have another parcel.


----------



## rozella (5 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold my last parcel of WDC today on the open @ 1826.0
Bought 4th August @ 1795.0 with a margin of 75%. Investment 448.75/.share.
Exdist 9th August, distribution 51.07/share, franking 12.57% 2.75/share
Gross profit 84.82/share = 18.90% return on investment.  154 days


----------



## The Estimator (5 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hey Don,

What happened to your thread on reefcap?

John


----------



## rozella (5 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day The Estimator,

The thread is still there....Nick has put it under Active Investing Strategies.


----------



## rozella (5 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold my last parcel of SGB today @ 2977.8 in bits & pieces
Bought 18th November @ 2922.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 730.50/share
Exdiv 28th November, dividend 70.0/share fully franked 30.0/share
Gross profit 155.8/share = 21.33% return on investment.  48 days.


----------



## rozella (5 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold MCW today @ 202.0 in bits & pieces 
Bought 20th December @ 202.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 70.7/share
Exdist 22nd December, distribution 7.6/unit zero franked
Gross profit 7.6/unit = 10.75% return on investment.  16 days


----------



## michael_selway (5 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Sold MCW today @ 202.0 in bits & pieces
> Bought 20th December @ 202.0 with a margin of 65%
> Investment 70.7/share
> Exdist 22nd December, distribution 7.6/unit zero franked
> Gross profit 7.6/unit = 10.75% return on investment.  16 days




wow nice, i wonder whether this strategy will work in a general Bear market like in 2002-2002. Since 2003-2005 has been a Bull market.

Thanks

MS


----------



## rozella (5 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day michael_selway,

I have been trading this way for about 7/8 years, & have become more comfortable with it since 2000 when I realised "simple is better", so I avoid complications.  Take profits when they are there, & move to the next, or re-enter if the time & price is right.

You referred to MCW which is a LPT.....they suit trading for dividends, because they are high yielding, usually zero franked, so I don't need to make any decisions re the 45 day holding rule, which is always a problem when you start to approach 40 days, which was the case with my SGB trade.  I was at 43 days & could sell for 2994.0, so I chose to wait because the longweekend ate up most of the other days.  The franking was 30.0, & I sold today for 2978.0.....so just infront.



> wow nice, i wonder whether this strategy will work in a general Bear market like in 2002-2002. Since 2003-2005 has been a Bull market.



It depends on how disciplined the trader is.


----------



## rozella (6 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered WDC today @ 1794.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 448.50/share
exdist expected 8th February, Last years dist was 52.03/share franked to 8.6% 1.92/share


----------



## rozella (6 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered a 2nd parcel of WDC today @1786.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 446.50/share
exdist expected 8th February, Last years dist was 52.03/share franked to 8.6% 1.92/share


----------



## nizar (7 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

hey rozella,

do u know of a company called port bouvard?
Land developer based in perth, shares were 196 on november 25, but as low as 160 a month previously. Now on november 25 around midday, they released announcement they were paying interim dividend of 40c/share, which is MASSIVE (but probably unsustainable). Anyway, they reached 245 that day (closed at 230), i didnt sell, now in hindsight i shouldve, coz now the shares are 179. They are paying 20c special dividend around april 16. Historically, the shares should be back to around pre-ex-div about 1 month after, but hey didnt work this time...

Im trying 2 find out how much of their profits they paid out as a dividend (payout ratio), it shouldnt be more than 75, coz they should use it to develop more land, unless they can't find anymore... which would b a problem 4 future growth..

Yeh Im just wondering if you know abt this companyand wat u think of it and any ideas on their payout ratio... (or maybe this wouldnt appear until nxt annual report)

Also, what has been the most money u made (%ROI) in the shortest time?

Thanks..


----------



## rozella (7 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day nizar,

I don't usually trade it because of low volumes & one off special dividends from the sale of assets.  Yes the 20.0 special dividend is due to be paid when they have the proceeds from the sale of the golf course assets & marina.  So they are just giving the profits back to the shareholder, & I would not expect the price to recover from one off special divs very quickly if ever. 

You can see from below that there earnings were 21.0/share, & their dividends were 55.0/share with the other dividend of 20.0/share still to go.

You should read all the company announcements on the one as it tells you everything you need to know.

*Issuer Name PORT BOUVARD LIMITED 
Description ORDINARY FULLY PAID 
Industry Group Real Estate Management & Development - 40401020 Shares on Issue 63,111,774  
Price (previous close in cents) 179  
Market Cap ($) 112,970,075  
Last Annual Report Data and Ratios 
Earnings (cents per share) 21  
Price To Earnings 8.52  
Dividends (cents per share) 55  
Yield (%) 30.73  
Asset Backing (cents per share) 90  
Price to Assets 1.99*



> Also, what has been the most money u made (%ROI) in the shortest time?



My wins are reasonable but not outstanding, as I am always eager to take profits along the way, but I can tell you that I once strayed from my rules & lost $58k in 22 seconds.....yes it was AMP.  I was profiting $3k to $5k per day totalling $36k, then I said one more trade, with 22 seconds left to go in the matchout, & after close it went into a trading halt & opened 3 days or so later approx $3.50 less.....a valuable lesson with risk % of portfolio


----------



## mlennox (7 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,

             enjoying your posts thouroughly one quick question.

             what's the LVR ??

Thanks
Mark


----------



## rozella (7 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Mark,

LVR = Loan to Value Ratio

This is say if your margin loan = $65000
& your portfolio value = $100000
then the LVR % = 65000/100000 = 65%

Marginlenders have a list of stocks that they lend on, which have the maximum LVR for each stock against it.


----------



## robots (11 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

hello

any thoughts on api, gone ex-div today

regards
robots


----------



## rozella (11 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day robots,

API does not reach my criteria for a dividend trade.....  Down 7.0 atm exdiv day, which is normal.  div + fc = 8.93  It has been trending down for a couple of months.....low volume today.

Sold ANZ today @ 2453.0  
Bought post exdiv on 18th November @ 2396.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 599.0/share
exdiv gone on 8th November....was supposed to be short term, but did not happen.
Gross profit 57.0/share = 9.51% return on investment.  54 days


----------



## rozella (17 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold SUN today @ 2095.0
Bought 29th August 05 @ 2060.0 with a margin of 75%. Investment 515.0/share.
LVR changed from 70% to 75% since I bought it.
Exdiv 31st August, dividend 120.0/share fully franked 51.43/share.
Gross profit 206.43/share = 40.08% return on investment. 141 days

A long holding, so the interest content = 50.20/share
Profit after interest 156.23/share = 30.33% return on investment.


----------



## rozella (18 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought CBA today in stages @ 4401.0, 4370.0, & 4366.0 for an average of 4379.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1094.75/share
Exdiv expected 20th February.  Last years div was 85.0/share fully franked 36.43/share


----------



## rozella (24 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought GUD today @ 765.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 267.75/share
Exdiv expected around 21st February, & last years div was 23.0/share fully franked.


----------



## Mouse (24 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,

I'm curious, would your strategy have worked with the recent MLE dividend?

cheers
Mouse


----------



## rozella (24 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Mouse,

Yes, no worries with MLE.  I did not trade it as the margin LVR was only 50%, but this would be how it would go.....hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Using closing prices for consistancy, but if intraday prices were used, a better result could have been achieved

Buy on announcement closing price 19th December @ 237.0 (low 233.0) 
margin 50%, so investment (outlay) 118.50/share
Dividend 7.0/share zero franked
20th Dec closing price 237.0
21st Dec closing price 237.0
22nd Dec exdiv day closing price 230.0
23rd Dec closing price 233.0
28th Dec closing price 236.0
29th Dec closing price 237.0 (high 238.0) Sell on close 

Gross profit 7.0/share = 5.91% return on investment in 9 days

If you waited another day to 30th Dec, the closing price was 248.0/share
Gross profit 7.0 + 11.0 = 18.0/share = 15.19% return on investment in 10 days


----------



## Mouse (24 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thanks for that Rozella.  

I bought them a couple of weeks earlier at $2.20, when the news of the new theme park came out, and accidentally made an extra profit with the dividend.  More luck than strategy though, they kept going up so I hung onto them.

cheers
Mouse


----------



## rozella (24 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				Mouse said:
			
		

> Thanks for that Rozella.
> 
> I bought them a couple of weeks earlier at $2.20, when the news of the new theme park came out, and accidentally made an extra profit with the dividend.  More luck than strategy though, they kept going up so I hung onto them.
> 
> ...




Good work, sometimes situations coincide.  Last year in the LPT sector, there were a few mergers that coincided with the dividend strategy, which was the "cream" if you were lucky to pick the right ones.


----------



## rozella (27 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold NAB today @ 3363.0
Bought 18th November @ 3365.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 841.25/share
Exdiv 21st November, dividend 83.0/share 80% franked 28.46/share
Gross profit 109.46/share = 13.01% return on investment.  70 days


----------



## michael_selway (27 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Sold NAB today @ 3363.0
> Bought 18th November @ 3365.0 with a margin of 75%
> Investment 841.25/share
> Exdiv 21st November, dividend 83.0/share 80% franked 28.46/share
> Gross profit 109.46/share = 13.01% return on investment.  70 days




Hi when was you last -ve ROI?

Thx

MS


----------



## rozella (27 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day michael_selway,

I have had less trades this FY than usual.

66 trades
48 wins
4 losses
14 open

Previous year for the same period
114 trades
89 wins
15 losses
10 open

Also more profitable last year, but it was exceptional for the 1st six months of 2004/2005 FY, this year sofar has had a few topsy turvey weeks.


----------



## 123enen (27 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Sold NAB today @ 3363.0
> Bought 18th November @ 3365.0 with a margin of 75%
> Investment 841.25/share
> Exdiv 21st November, dividend 83.0/share 80% franked 28.46/share
> Gross profit 109.46/share = 13.01% return on investment.  70 days




Rozella,
I have no doubt this is an excellent way of generating income and I occassionaly take advantage of this form of trading.

Shouldn't your NAB example also include the cost of interest and the cost of buying/selling the shares. For tax purposes I know that the cost of buying /selling would normally go to the CGT calculation but this type of ROI example should include it, shouldn't it?

I would calculate that at 75% LVR the borrowed amount of 2523.75 per share would accrue 189.28 interest per share per 12 month period (at 7.5% per annum rate). 
Given that you borrowed for two months, the interest on your borrowings of $25.24 per share should be 31.5 cents per share( if my maths is correct). This would come off your profit wouldn't it?

Additionally you would have at least $40 buy / sell cost that you would need to amortise over the amount of shares that you purchased/sold.

Don't get me wrong - this is definitely a worthwhile strategy, but I would have thought that these are necessary costs to include in the calculation and people wishing to adopt this strategy need to understand it, or ,if I have it wrong then I need to understand it.


----------



## rozella (28 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day 123enen,



> Shouldn't your NAB example also include the cost of interest and the cost of buying/selling the shares. For tax purposes I know that the cost of buying /selling would normally go to the CGT calculation but this type of ROI example should include it, shouldn't it?



That is why I am particular to say Gross profit.  You will find this has been mentioned a few times in this thread, however it is easy enough to calculate for those who wish to.

Buy price = 3365.0/share
LVR 75% = 2523.75/share
Interest rate = 7.9%
Days held = 70
Total interest = 38.22/share
Brokerage x 2 = 3.3/share  (based on $33/trade)
Dividend = 83.0/share
Franking credit = 28.46/share
Profit after interest & brokerge = 67.94/share
ROI after interest & brokerage = 8.08% in 70 days

This trade being 70 days is far too long, but it is the 1st time during this trade that it returned anywhere near the buy price.  By holding 46/47 days, I can be eligible for the franking credit which is enough to wipe out the interest charge.  However, because I don't always stay for the dividend, my average holding period atm for this FY is 31.22 days.

And as I am classed as a trader, I am not involved with any CGT, & interest & brokerage are expenses, as being part of all the other trading expenses.

Cheers


----------



## 123enen (28 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hello Rozella,

Have you ever traded BSO ( Bass strait oil trust) for dividend. They are a roller coaster ride with a yield of 17-20% inc. capital returns, unfranked. Super high increase until ex date then cliff face drops. That would be a scary one. 
Comsec  LVR =50%.

I am not game. Would like your opinion.


----------



## rozella (28 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day 123enen,

The last time I traded BSO was December 2002, for a win, exiting prior exdiv.  But I have lost on it before that.  The problem is that the trust is being wound down.  I sold it for 364.0 in 2002, & it is now 227.0 3 years later.

If you get clever you may be able to pick an entry point cum dividend & exit prior exdiv date......but there are plenty more to pick from these days around the same time than to take chances.

A trader friend of mine had a nice win on it doing just that this December, however you need to watch it carefully.

Cheers,


----------



## rozella (30 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold GUD today in bits & pieces @ average 796.43/share
Bought 24th January @ 765.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 267.75/share
Gross profit 31.43/share = 11.74% return on investment.  6 days

GUD announced today with an increased profit & increased dividend to 27.0/share fully franked.

I will try for a re-entry at a lower price if the situation permits....but it is starting to climb again.


----------



## rozella (31 January 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Should have stayed in GUD so re-entered today @ 797.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 278.95/share
exdiv 20th February, dividend 27.0/share fully franked 11.57/share

Bought ADB @ 1328.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 398.4/share
Expected to report this Thursday 2nd February, with exdiv expected 7th March.
Last years dividend was 24.0/share fully franked.


----------



## rozella (2 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of ADB today after dividend announcement @ 1320.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 396.0/share
Announcement today, exdiv 9th March, dividend 26.0/share fully franked 11.14/share


----------



## rozella (3 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of GUD today @ 787.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 275.45/share
exdiv 20th February, dividend 27.0/share fully franked 11.57/share


----------



## rozella (7 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold SGP today on the open @ 661.0
Bought 20th December @ 660.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 198.0/unit
Exdist 22nd December, distribution 20.5/unit, franking TBA
Gross profit 21.5/unit = 10.86% return on investment.  49 days


----------



## rozella (8 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Out of SGP too early, unfortunately missed the cream, but still achieved my aim.

Bought another parcel of CBA today @ 4360.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1090.0/share
Exdiv expected 20th February. Last years div was 85.0/share fully franked 36.43/share


----------



## rozella (8 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought AFI today after it announced its profit report @ 456.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 136.80/share
exdiv date 15th February, dividend 6.5/share fully franked 2.786/share


----------



## RodC (9 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

rozella,

Why AFI?

it's yield seems a bit low.

Rod.


----------



## rozella (9 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



> rozella,
> 
> Why AFI?
> 
> ...



Yes it is lower than my normal criteria, but...I don't intend to stay for the dividend.  I usually trade it each reporting season, & it generally rises after its report....just want to skim a little bit if I can....5 or 6 cents will be okay.


----------



## rozella (9 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold AFI today @ 470.0
Bought 8th February after it announced its profit report @ 456.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 136.80/share
exdiv date 15th February, dividend 6.5/share fully franked 2.786/share
Gross profit 14.0/share = 10.23% return on investment.  1 day


----------



## Milk Man (9 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

So thats why you bought AFI  .


----------



## rozella (9 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I did not expect that much.....double the dividend in 1 day.......should be more of it.

Who knows it might keep going tomorrow, but a bird in the hand.....


----------



## rozella (13 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold DUE today @251.0
Bought 19th December @ 253.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 88.55/unit
Exdist date 22nd December, distribution 11.75/unit zero franked
Gross profit 9.75/share = 11.01% return on investment.  56 days
I have been holding out too long waiting for 253.0 +.....there are better opportunities at present.....even TLS....maybe....??


----------



## rozella (13 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Well, I took the plunge & bought TLS today @ 404.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 101.0/share
Exdiv date 20th February, dividends 20.0/share fully franked 8.57/share.
I don't expect to stay for the dividend this time.


----------



## rozella (14 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought JBM today @ 668.0 with a margin of 60%
Investment 267.20/share
Div announcement expected tomorrow, last years dividend was 20.0/share fully franked.
Last years exdiv date was 21st February.


----------



## rozella (17 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold CBA today @ 4432.0 but still have another parcel for the dividend.
Bought 18th January in stages @ 4401.0, 4370.0, & 4366.0 for an average of 4379.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1094.75/share
Gross profit 53.0/share = 4.84% return on investment.  30 days


----------



## TjamesX (17 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thought this would be right down your alley rozella;

http://www.aireview.com/pdfs/Aireview95.pdf

Good article.


Given that dividend stripping doesn't go well in a bear market (when/ if this happens), what would you do with all your time???

May I suggest sail around the world with all your profits


----------



## TjamesX (17 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Oh, and I forgot to ask.....

were you the vampire being interviewed????


----------



## rozella (17 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day TjamesX,

Yes I read that on another forum & took a hard copy....very good....almost true....& no, not rozella.....that was like "footsteps in the fog"

Who said Dividend trading is no good in a bear market ?  It has served me well for a long time now....not that we have had a 1987 crash, but there has been some bad markets around now & again.  September 2001 was an example.

For the last 3 years stoplosses have not been so important...just like a bad haircut, it grows back in notime, but in a bear market you can't let it slip.  In a bear market you do a lot more trades & need to be satisfied with "half a loaf of bread"

I bought JBM a few days ago & let it slip through the stoploss, however it has recovered some today.

I just sold TLS @ 403.0
Bought TLS 13th February @ 404.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 101.0/share
Exdiv date 20th February, dividends 20.0/share fully franked 8.57/share
Gross loss 1.0/share = 0.99% loss on investment.
Even the dividend can't help this one.

Cheers


----------



## rozella (17 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought HIL in dribs & drabs today @ 478.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 167.3/share
Exdiv date 7th March, dividend 13.0/share fully franked 5.57/share


----------



## rozella (17 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought ABC today on the close @ 237.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 82.95/share
Exdiv date 1st March, dividend 6.25/share fully franked 2.68/share


----------



## zzkazu (17 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Rozella,
when I saw the dividend was substantial down for last year I had to get out minus my undies…

Oh well there’s always  next time..  watching MGW now..  Seems to have better fundamentals.

zzkazu


----------



## rozella (18 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day zzkazu,



> Rozella,
> when I saw the dividend was substantial down for last year I had to get out minus my undies…



Which stock ?..........JBM, I presume.  There was a ASX query on why the price dropped all of a sudden......now we know why.


----------



## zzkazu (18 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Yeah JBM..  a bit of insider trading we see then.. 

It still looks very bearish to me..

zzkazu


----------



## finnsk (19 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

This is taken from the ASX web side under ex dividend date.

"""Shares are quoted ‘ex dividend’ on the fourth business day before the company's Record Date. To be entitled to a dividend a shareholder must have purchased shares before the ex dividend date. The share price may fall on the ex dividend date, with the fall in price being related to the amount of dividend being paid, on the basis that the buyer will not, in the ordinary course of events, receive the dividend because they will not be registered by the Record Date."""

If I understand this right as long as i hold the share on open of the market on the ex dividend day I will be intitled to the dividend.
I do not have to hold to record day.

Finnsk


----------



## rozella (19 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day finnsk,

You are correct.

If you have a buy contract note dated prior to the exdiv date, the earliest you can sell to capture the dividend, is on the open on exdiv day.

So this means you can buy on the close the day before exdiv day, & sell on the open on exdiv day & capture the dividend.  I have done this many times.

However, when you do this, you must make sure that you do your own registering prior to record date, especially your tax file number, as the registry is entitled to deduct 48.5% withholding tax from your dividend payment if you don't supply it in time.

It can be tricky, but if you are doing this all the time you get a routine going.  What I mean is that if you buy the day before exdiv date, record date is in 4 more business/settlement days, but T3 settlement does not take place for 3 business/settlement days, so there is really only 1 day to register.  This is also why you should not leave it to your broker....they will just shrug their shoulders & say not enough time.......you don't need this hassle....you can claim it back at tax time, but you don't have the cash in the meantime.

Some registries allow you to do this online, & others have forms that can be downloaded that can be filled in & faxed back on the appropriate day.....don't post unless you have plenty of time to spare.  

Cheers


----------



## finnsk (19 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> However, when you do this, you must make sure that you do your own registering prior to record date, especially your tax file number, as the registry is entitled to deduct 48.5% withholding tax from your dividend payment if you don't supply it in time.




Thanks that was very clear answer  

In regards to the registering does that mean there are more than one register?
When I have bought shares I get my mail from "Computershare" I thought every company was using them?

Finnsk


----------



## rozella (19 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



> In regards to the registering does that mean there are more than one register? When I have bought shares I get my mail from "Computershare" I thought every company was using them?



This is a Useful Links page on my website.....scroll halfway down the page to Share Registries


----------



## rozella (20 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Couldn't resist temptation & sold JBM today on the close @ 712.0
Bought 14th February @ 668.0 with a margin of 60%
Investment 267.20/share
Exdiv 24th February, dividend 13.0/share fully franked 5.57/share
Gross profit 44.0/share = 16.47% return on investment.  6 days

Sold ABC today on the close @ 246.0
Bought ABC 17th February on the close @ 237.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 82.95/share
Exdiv date 1st March, dividend 6.25/share fully franked 2.68/share
Gross profit 9.0/share = 10.85% return on investment.  3 days


----------



## zzkazu (20 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Very nice, but lucky...

good on you

zzkazu


----------



## rozella (21 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Both JBM & ABC still look good zzkazu.

Bought UTB today @ 1336.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 400.8/share
Exdiv date 20th March, dividend 29.0/share fully franked 12.43/share


----------



## rozella (22 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold DJS today after long last @ 262.0
Bought 28th September @ 248.0 with a margin of 65% 
Investment 86.80/share
exdiv 11th October, dividend 7.0/share fully franked.
Gross profit 24.0/share = 27.65% return on investment.  147 days
Interest took some cream, but ok @ 5.45/share

Sold HIL today @ 496.0
Bought 17th February @ 478.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 167.3/share
Exdiv date 7th March, dividend 13.0/share fully franked 5.57/share
Gross profit 18.0/share = 10.76% return on investment.  5 days


----------



## rozella (22 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered JBM today @ 705.0 in bits & pieces with a margin of 60%
Investment 282.0/share
Exdiv 24th February, dividend 13.0/share fully franked 5.57/share


----------



## rozella (22 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered HIL today @ 488.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 170.8/share
Exdiv date 7th March, dividend 13.0/share fully franked 5.57/share


----------



## rozella (22 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought BSL today @ 667.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 200.1/share
Exdiv 28th February, dividend 20.0/share fully franked 8.57/share


----------



## rozella (23 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold my last parcel of CBA today @ 4404.0
Bought on 18th January @ 4401.0
Investment 1100.25/share
exdiv 20th February, dividend 94.0/share fully franked 40.29/share
Gross profit 97.0/share = 8.81% return on investment.  36 days  (franking not incl)

Sold TSO today @ 220.0......finally
Bought 23rd June @ 219.0 with a margin of 65% Investment 76.65/share
Exdist 24th June, distribution 9.25/share, zero franked.
Also exdiv 22nd December, distribution 8.5/share, zero franked.
Gross profit 17.75/share = 23.15% return on investment.  245 days.


----------



## rozella (23 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Atm 39 stocks have declared their dividends today as at 4:00pm

Bought PBG today @ 236.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 70.8/share
Exdiv date 27th February, dividend 7.5/share fully franked 3.21/share


----------



## rozella (24 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold UTB today @ average 1376.8
Bought 21st February @ 1336.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 400.8/share
Exdiv date 20th March, dividend 29.0/share fully franked 12.43/share
Gross profit 40.8/share = 10.18% return on investment.  3 days

Bought IAG today @ 543.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 162.9/share
Exdiv 2nd March, dividend 13.5/share fully franked


----------



## rozella (24 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold BSL on the close today @ 690.0
Bought 22nd February @ 667.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 200.1/share
Exdiv 28th February, dividend 20.0/share fully franked 8.57/share
Gross profit 23.0/share = 11.49% return on investment.  2 days

End of a great week for dividend traders....should be more of it.


----------



## rozella (27 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold HIL today @ 502.0
After re-entering on 22nd February @ 488.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 170.8/share
Exdiv date 7th March, dividend 13.0/share fully franked 5.57/share
Gross profit 14.0/share = 8.2% return on investment.  5 days

Re-entered BSL on the close today @ 687.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 206.10/share
Exdiv 28th February, dividend 20.0/share fully franked 8.57/share

Bought balance of TAH on the close today @ average 1556.497 with a margin of 75%
Investment 389.12/share
Exdiv 28th February, dividend 44.0/share fully franked 18.86/share


----------



## rozella (28 February 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered UTB today @ 1386.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 415.80/share
Exdiv date 20th March, dividend 29.0/share fully franked 12.43/share


----------



## rozella (1 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought PMN today @ 549.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 164.7/share
Exdiv date 6th March, dividend 13.0/share + 5.0/share special = 18.0/share fully franked


----------



## rozella (2 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Finally sold both parcels of DRT today @ 144.5

Sold DRT today at 144.5/share
Bought 21st June 05 @ 144.5 with a margin of 70%
Investment 43.35/share.
Exdist 24th June, distribution 5.3/share, zero franked
Exdist 22nd December 05, distribution 5.45/share, zero franked
Gross profit 10.75/share = 24.80% return on investment.  254 days

Sold DRT today at 144.5/share
Bought 22nd June 05 @ 143.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 42.9/share
Exdist 24th June, distribution 5.3/share, zero franked.
Exdist 22nd December 05, distribution 5.45/share, zero franked
Gross profit 12.25/share = 28.55% return on investment.  253 days

Interest eats up approx one of the dividends.


----------



## bullmarket (2 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi rozella

I've been watching DRT closely for a while now as well.  

Its chart shows it's retesting previous highs at ~$1.45 and I was tempted to sell in the hope that they will retrace a bit and then buy back in.  But after their recent results ann I see their NTA has jumped up to $1.35 and my personal back of envelope quick and dirty valuation for LPTs like DRT is that at ~5% above NTA they are fundamentally good value and at 10-15% above NTA they become fair value to a little pricey.  DRT is now about 6% above NTA so I'm hanging on to mine atm.

Another curve-ball from left field came in the mail this morning from DRT saying that they were asked to provide shareholder contact details to a law firm and they were obliged to provide the info under the Corporations Act.

So now I'm wondering if David Tweed or someone similar is playing games again or whether there might be a merger/takeover possibility in the forseeable future.......  

But I regard DRT as one of the less risky and more reliable/robust LPT's on the ASX so I am not in a hurry to sell.  Their prospective yld is ~7.4% atm which is just above the sector avge atm.

cheers

bullmarket


----------



## rozella (2 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day bullmarket,

Yes, I too received the letter this morning, & the thought ran through my mind that it may be David Tweed.

I am not a long term holder as you have probably gathered.  I still have too much retailer in me, so once I have made my expected profit, I move to the next.....DRT was considered too long a holding for me....not maximising trading capital.  I will catch it again around May, ready for the June divvy....in the meantime I will use the cash on something moving a little faster in the strategy as there are plenty atm.....but today is not a buying day unless it crashes nearer to the close.

I am still hoping for 120.0 today for ENV which I bought in November for the div.....it reached 119.0 earlier this week but I was too greedy.

LPT's have always been favourites of mine, as I can trade in & out with high dividend yields & not worry about franking credit restrictions....they help to balance the pot.


----------



## bullmarket (2 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

no problem rozella 

Yes, I can see from your posts that you're obviously much more of a trader than a buy and hold.

I was seriously thinking of selling some at ~$1.42 a few weeks ago before the latest results when their NTA was still $1.28.

To be honest, apart from the XPJ sector being up strongly today, I think DRT is being rerated a bit in the last few days in light of the increased NTA to $1.35.  In my experience LPT's of DRT's nature don't trade for very long, if at all, at their NTA's so I'm not expecting much downside from here although there obviously could be some short term profit taking in the next day or so.
If DRT gets close to 10% above NTA in the future I'll then re-asses whether to hold or sell some.

Now waiting on correspondence from Mr. Tweed   

cheers

bullmarket


----------



## rozella (2 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold ENV today on the close @ 120.0
Bought 3rd November @ 120.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 42.0/share
Exdiv 7th November, div 5.7/share zero franked
Gross profit 5.7/share = 13.57% return on investment.  119 days

Great day......the market reversed all my falls from yesterday plus a bonus.


----------



## rozella (3 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I had a cat & mouse game re-entering ENV on the close.  Originally put order in at 115.0, upped to 115.5 to make sure of 115.0, then upped to 116.0.  With 30 seconds left cancelled order as it went to 116.5, then a seller brought the estimated close to 115.0, so re-entered at 116.0 in the last few seconds, & got it @ 115.5......no time for a walk around the block or a cup of coffee today.

Re-entered ENV on the close @ 115.5 with a margin of 65%
Investment 40.425/share
Exdiv last year was 11th April, divdend 3.8/share zero franked.

Bought another parcel of PMN today on the close @ 556.0 (no dramas) with a margin of 70%
Investment 166.8/share
Exdiv date 6th March, dividend 13.0/share + 5.0/share special = 18.0/share fully franked


----------



## Kipp (4 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Here's an easy question for you rozy, when the AFR quotes P/E ratios, what figures are they using for their EPS?  Is it as of June 30 Fin report, the most up-to-date QTRly report, or half-yearly?  I suspect half-yearly but I'm not sure.


----------



## rozella (4 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Kipp,

Not so easy as I have never looked at those figures in the AFR...but, I just looked & compared a few stocks from different sources & they all come up with the same answers



> *AOT*
> Issuer Name AUSTRALIAN GAS LIGHT COMPANY (THE)
> Description ORDINARY FULLY PAID
> Industry Group Multi-Utilities - 55103010 Shares on Issue 456,592,018
> ...






> *AFR & TRADINGROOM*
> AUSTRALIAN GAS LIGHT COMPANY (THE)
> AGL
> ORDINARY FULLY PAID
> ...




So all 3 sources are the same using the latest Annual Report Data.


----------



## bullmarket (4 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

hi kipp, rozella

Those EPS and PER numbers for AGL look a little dodgy to me.

It looks to me they might have just used half yearly EPS numbers.

Commsec numbers are below:

     2005 2006 2007 2008 
EPS 84.6 92.6 99.3 101.6 
DPS 63.0 66.1 75.9 75.9 

Anyway, I prefer to calculate PER on 12 month EPS forcast numbers, since markets are usually forward looking.

If interested, I uploaded a spreadsheet in the Trading Strategies/Sytems forum which calculates company prospective PER's and some of the major indices prospective PER's as well.

Feel free to download it, play with it, hack it, butcher it or whatever you like with it  if it is of any help.  Instructions on how to bulk upload EPS, Price data etc into the spreadsheet and my data sources are in my posts in the above thread.

cheers

bullmarket


----------



## rozella (4 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day bullmarket,

There is quite a difference in those figures.

I notice on the Comsec site their definition is:



> Price/Earnings (P/E) Ratio
> 
> The current price divided by the average of the last actual earnings per share figure and the projected EPS figure for the next year. The two figures are weighted based on the elapsed time between each period.
> 
> We use both forecast and historical EPS to give a more balanced P/E ratio than using either one alone.




Just as an aside, I can't remember the last time I took notice of P/E ratios,  as to my way of trading they don't matter two hoots......as far as I am concerned the only important indicator is the price & which way it is travelling.....it is much easier....but that is me, long term investors obviously look from another angle.


----------



## bullmarket (4 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

no problem rozella 

I got the impression that kipp was more interested in PER's from his/her post.

I was just pointing out that the 53cps EPS for AGL looks like a half yearly figure when compared to the commsec numbers and hence the high ~36 PER.

I mainly use index PER's to get a ball-park feel for whether the market is at fair, under or over value based on 12 month EPS forcasts.  I also use PER in my fundamentals/valuation spreadsheet and since like you imply that various sources use different EPS's to calculate PER I decided to set up my own spreadsheet to calculate company and index PER's according to my personally preferred method.

Have a good remainder of the weekend 

cheers

bullmarket


----------



## rozella (4 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

No worries bullmarket,



> I mainly use index PER's to get a ball-park feel for whether the market is at fair, under or over value based on 12 month EPS forcasts. I also use PER in my fundamentals/valuation spreadsheet and since like you imply that various sources use different EPS's to calculate PER I decided to set up my own spreadsheet to calculate company and index PER's according to my personally preferred method.



I agree with you.....the important point is that these figures should all be calculated with the same formula, so we are comparing apples with apples, as you are with your own spreadsheet.  If traders/investors are serious, then they will have there own datum points for comparisons.


----------



## rozella (6 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold BSL today @ 687.0
Bought 27th February on the close @ 687.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 206.10/share
Exdiv 28th February, dividend 20.0/share fully franked 8.57/share
Gross profit 20.0/share = 9.7% return on investment.  Fc not incl.  7 days


----------



## michael_selway (6 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Sold BSL today @ 687.0
> Bought 27th February on the close @ 687.0 with a margin of 70%
> Investment 206.10/share
> Exdiv 28th February, dividend 20.0/share fully franked 8.57/share
> Gross profit 20.0/share = 9.7% return on investment.  Fc not incl.  7 days




Hi did/are u goign to buy MCC?

thx

MS


----------



## rozella (6 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day MS,



> Hi did/are u goign to buy MCC?



Probably not.....it looks good & fits my requirements, but the best LVR I can get is only 60%, so there are others that look more attractive for me overall.


----------



## rozella (6 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered HIL today on the close @ 507.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 177.45/share
Exdiv date 7th March, dividend 13.0/share fully franked 5.57/share


----------



## rozella (7 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold IPG today @ 211.0
Bought 19th December @ 209.9 with a margin of 70%
Investment 62.97/unit
Exdist date 22nd December, distribution 8.5/unit zero franked
Gross profit 9.6/unit = 15.24% return on investment.  78 days


----------



## rozella (7 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of UTB today on the close @ 1362.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 408.6/share
Exdiv 20th March, dividend 29.0/share, fully franked 12.43/share


----------



## rozella (8 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold UTB today @ 1400.0
Bought yesterday 7th March on the close @ 1362.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 408.6/share
Exdiv 20th March, dividend 29.0/share, fully franked 12.43/share
Gross profit 38.0/share = 9.3% return on investment.  1 day


----------



## rozella (9 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold my last parcel of UTB today @ 1417.0
Bought 28th February @ 1386.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 415.80/share
Exdiv date 20th March, dividend 29.0/share fully franked 12.43/share
Gross profit 31.0/share = 7.45% return on investment.  9 days


----------



## rozella (10 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold PBG today @ 237.0 
Bought 23rd February @ 236.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 70.8/share
Exdiv date 27th February, dividend 7.5/share fully franked 3.21/share
Gross profit 8.5/share = 12.01% return on investment.  15 days


----------



## rozella (10 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold 1 parcel of PMN today @ 557.0
Bought 3rd March on the close @ 556.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 166.8/share
Exdiv date 6th March, dividend 13.0/share + 5.0/share special = 18.0/share fully franked
Gross profit 19.0/share = 11.39% return on investment.  fc excluded.  7 days


----------



## rozella (10 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold my last parcel of PMN today @ 562.0
Bought 1st March @ 549.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 164.7/share
Exdiv date 6th March, dividend 13.0/share + 5.0/share special = 18.0/share fully franked
Gross profit 31.0/share = 18.82% return on investment.  fc excluded.  9 days


----------



## rozella (15 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought AMP today @ 865.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 216.25/share
Exdiv date 27th March, dividend 18.0/share 75% franked 5.79/share


----------



## rozella (16 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold ENV today on the open @ 119.5
Bought 3rd March on the close @ 115.5 with a margin of 65%
Investment 40.425/share
Exdiv last year was 11th April, divdend 3.8/share zero franked.
Gross profit 4.0/share = 9.9% return on investment.  13 days
I will re-enter again around 115.5 again if the opportunity arises.


----------



## rozella (16 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought RCL today @ 228.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 79.80/share
Exdiv date 20th March, dividend 6.5/share fully franked 2.79/share


----------



## rozella (16 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered UTB today on the close @ 1425.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 427.50/share
Exdiv 20th March, dividend 29.0/share, fully franked 12.43/share


----------



## rozella (17 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold JBM today in bits & pieces @ 707.41
Bought 22nd February @ 705.0 with a margin of 60%
Investment 282.0/share
Exdiv 24th February, dividend 13.0/share fully franked 5.57/share
Gross profit 15.41/share = 5.46% return on investment.  fc excluded.  23 days


----------



## rozella (17 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought SGM today @ 1620.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 486.0/share
Exdiv date 27th March, dividend 45.0/share, 47% franked 9.06/share

Bought REB today on the close @ 340.0/share with a margin of 50%
Investment 170.0/share
Exdiv 28th March, dividend 7.5/share, fully franked 3.21/share
This is outside my normal mould for a buy, & am just looking for a rise prior to exdiv, 
stoploss 330.0


----------



## rozella (20 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Take profits when they are there I say, not when they might be.
Sold UTB on the close today @ 1430.0
Bought 16th March @ 1425.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 427.50/share
Exdiv 20th March, dividend 29.0/share, fully franked 12.43/share
Gross profit 34.0/share = 7.95% return on investment.  4 days. fc excluded

Kicking myself over ADB today.....wanted 1320.0 plus & being 46 days today......it reached 1323.0 & waited for more, then dropped to 1295.0 very quickly.....should always take profits when they are there.....repeat 1000 times.

rozella


----------



## rozella (21 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought CML on the close today @ 1040.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 260.0/share
Exdiv date 13th April, dividend 19.5/share, fully franked 8.36/share


----------



## rozella (22 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold SGM on the close today @ 1667.0
Bought 17th March @ 1620.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 486.0/share
Exdiv date 27th March, dividend 45.0/share, 47% franked 9.06/share

Gross profit 47.0/share = 9.67% return on investment.  5 days

Bought DJS today on the close @ 295.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 103.25/share
Exdiv date 29th March, dividend 7.0/share, fully franked 3.0/share


----------



## rozella (23 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought SGN today @ 338.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 118.3/share 
Exdiv 8th May, dividend 9.9/share, fully franked 4.24/share


----------



## savtin (23 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hello Rozella,
Please excuse my ignorance, but could you answer my dilemma. If i had bought FUN to get the divi of 6.5 cents....say i bought at $1.84 then when it goes EX-DIV it looses about 10 cents so although i get the divi plus franking credits the stock has lost share price value.....goes back to $1.70 so how can you make money...you have your 6.5 cents but you have lost 14cents.

don't you then have to wait until the stock reaches the $1.84 price before selling with a divi as clear profit?????????????

am i missing something?
regards
savtin


----------



## rozella (23 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day savtin,



> don't you then have to wait until the stock reaches the $1.84 price before selling with a divi as clear profit?????????????



That is the plan....but you can't win them all.

It is a stock that I don't trade for the dividend.  The yield is quite good unleveraged, however, they only offer an LVR of 50%, so it does not reach my best prospects list.

I lower my stoploss by the dividend + franking credit prior to opening on exdiv day
I assume you bought around announcement date
If you originally paid 184.0, then my stoploss would be 178.0
The price did not improve & the last price before exdiv was 179.5, so my stoploss would still remain at 178.0
Prior to open on exdiv day, I would adjust the stoploss to be 169.0, & it hit that on the close 21st March @ 166.0.....

Not all stocks will return to their buy price after exdiv date quickly, & what is good one period can be a dog the next, that is why you must write yourself a set of rules to suit you own comfort zone.

UTB returned to its buy price on exdiv day plus some....great, but others may take a week, month, maybe 3 months or more.  So to maximise your profits & to make full use of your trading capital, it is usually quicker to cut your losses & move on to a better deal.

Sorry I can't help anymore than that, & if they would all be perfect trades, life would be too easy.

Cheers


----------



## savtin1 (23 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thanks Mate....
Cheers
savtin

Best of luck and keep making profits


----------



## rozella (24 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold VBA today @ 192.0 after a long wait & letting it fall through my stoploss a few times
Bought 18th November @ 189.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 66.15/share
Exdiv 22nd November, dividend 25.0 fully franked 10.71/share
Gross profit 38.71/share = 58.52% return on investment.  126 days
Interest calculates to 5.94 cents / share which after interest is 49.54% ROI
Maybe more in it, but I have waited long enough.


----------



## rozella (24 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought MYO today @ 104.0 with a margin of 50%
Investment 52.0/share
Exdiv 28th March, dividend 2.75 + 1.25 special = 4.0/share, fully franked 1.71/share


----------



## rozella (24 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought APN today @ 495.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 148.5/share
Exdiv 31st March, dividend 15.4/share, 30% franked 1.98/share

Sold REB today in bits & pieces, @ average 353.4
Bought 17th March on the close @ 340.0/share with a margin of 50%
Investment 170.0/share
Exdiv 28th March, dividend 7.5/share, fully franked 3.21/share
Gross profit 13.4/share = 7.88% return on investment


----------



## rozella (28 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold IAG today @ 543.0
Bought 24th February @ 543.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 162.9/share
Exdiv 2nd March, dividend 13.5/share fully franked
Gross profit 13.5/share = 8.28% return on investment.  fc excluded.  32 days


----------



## rozella (29 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold CML today @ 1061.0
Bought 21st March @ 1040.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 260.0/share
Exdiv date 13th April, dividend 19.5/share, fully franked 8.36/share
Gross profit 21.0/share = 8.08% return on investment.  8 days


----------



## rozella (29 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of APN today @ 495.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 148.5/share
Exdiv 31st March, dividend 15.4/share, 30% franked 1.98/share


----------



## rozella (30 March 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered CML today @ 1051.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 262.75/share
Exdiv date 13th April, dividend 19.5/share, fully franked 8.36/share


----------



## rozella (3 April 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold AMP on the open today @ 869.0
Bought 15th March @ 865.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 216.25/share
Exdiv date 27th March, dividend 18.0/share 75% franked 5.79/share
Gross profit 22.0/share = 10.17% return on investment, fc excluded.  19 days


----------



## rozella (3 April 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold TAH today @ 1566.0
Bought 27th February @ average 1556.497 with a margin of 75%
Investment 389.12/share
Exdiv 28th February, dividend 44.0/share fully franked 18.86/share
Gross profit 53.503/share = 13.75% return on investment, fc excluded.   35 days


----------



## rozella (3 April 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold CML today @ 1081.0
Bought 30th March  @ 1051.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 262.75/share
Exdiv date 13th April, dividend 19.5/share, fully franked 8.36/share
Gross profit 30.0/share = 11.42% return on investment.  4 days


----------



## rozella (3 April 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold one parcel of GUD on the close today @ 789.0
Bought 3rd February @ 787.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 275.45/share
exdiv 20th February, dividend 27.0/share fully franked 11.57/share
Gross profit 40.57/share = 14.73% return on investment, includes fc.  59 days


----------



## rozella (4 April 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought JST today @ 315.0 with a margin of 60%
Investment 126.0/share
Exdiv date 19th April, dividend 8.5/share fully franked 3.64/share. 
This one is a little under the 10% yield criteria with margin


----------



## rozella (4 April 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought NAB today just before & on the close @ average 3711.85 with a margin of 75%
Investment 927.963/share
Exdiv expected 2nd June, last years dividend was 83.0/share, 80% franked 28.46/share.
Hopefully I will have a few trades before exdiv.


----------



## rozella (5 April 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered CML today @ 1072.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 268.0/share
Exdiv date 13th April, dividend 19.5/share, fully franked 8.36/share


----------



## rozella (6 April 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought BOQ today @ 1623.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 486.9/share
Exdiv 19th April, dividend 27.0/share, fully franked 11.57/share
maybe a bit early....


----------



## rozella (6 April 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold 2 parcels of APN today 
Sold APN today @ 497.0
Bought 24th March @ 495.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 148.5/share
Exdiv 31st March, dividend 15.4/share, 30% franked 1.98/share
Gross profit 17.4/share = 11.72% return on investment, fc excluded.   13 days

Sold APN today @ 497.0
Bought 29th March @ 495.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 148.5/share
Exdiv 31st March, dividend 15.4/share, 30% franked 1.98/share
Gross profit 17.4/share = 11.72% return on investment, fc excluded.  8 days


----------



## rozella (6 April 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold CML today @ 1110.0
Bought 5th April @ 1072.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 268.0/share
Exdiv date 13th April, dividend 19.5/share, fully franked 8.36/share
Gross profit 38.0/share = 14.18% return on investment.  1 day


----------



## rozella (7 April 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought ANZ today @ 2660.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 665.0/share
Exdiv expected 15th May, last years dividend 51.0/share fully franked 21.86/share

BOQ looks shaky atm

Waiting ?? for a re-entry into CML @ 1100.0 OR less


----------



## rozella (7 April 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered CML in 2 parcel on the close @ 1111.0, both with a margin of 75%
Investment 277.75/share
Exdiv date 13th April, dividend 19.5/share, fully franked 8.36/share

Still holding BOQ from yesterday after closing today 6 cents below stoploss, & bought another parcel today @ 1570.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 471.0/share
Exdiv 19th April, dividend 27.0/share, fully franked 11.57/share


----------



## Stan 101 (7 April 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Rozella, I know what you mean about BOQ. I jagged a mid 1570 buy after putting in a high 1580 buy, went for a shower, the phone rang on the way out the door and bang..I heard the BOQ was in freefall.
Just profit taking I assume, and I notice that Aegis changed BOQ to a big SELL last night.

It's quiet times on the dividend front at the moment, no?


cheers,


----------



## rozella (8 April 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Stan 101,

I broke one of my golden rules buying BOQ on the announcement day.  From periodic research, I have found that more than 50% of the time, stocks that meet my criteria are lower at close on the day after announcement.

BOQ still meets my criteria so it was pointless selling even though it just fell through my stoploss @ 1574.0, & I finished up buying another parcel @ 1570.0

My other mistake for the day was not to take the sell on the open of 325.0 with JST...it also closed @ 325.0 the day before, but greed set in.

I have learnt that "take the profit when it is there, don't wait for when it might be there"



> It's quiet times on the dividend front at the moment, no?



No.....I wish it was sometimes.  I have 15 stocks atm, all in various stages of the strategy, & the moment if you take your eyes off the monitor, one of them usually makes a run.  Also I am preparing to enter the banks & LPT's for their reporting season.  ANZ is expected to report on 27th of this month, being the first major.

Cheers


----------



## Stan 101 (8 April 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I know what you mean about taking the profit. I've bought and sold in CML several times in the last 2 weeks. But I'm not going to enter back in before EX Div. Also there have been a few that aren't on your radar such as CBH and DLS that I've been moving through buying and selling often. But I'm backing out till the banks get closer to ex time. I usually like to wait and see a bit of a trend before I buy. Probably over cautious.
I'm going to sit on the sidelines this month, with the exception of ANZ, as it's getting a bit warm for this boy. besides, being back in OZ now and there are a couple of tidy realestate opportunities popping up..

Cheers,


----------



## rozella (12 April 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold JST today @ 327.0 
Bought 4th April @ 315.0 with a margin of 60%
Investment 126.0/share
Exdiv date 19th April, dividend 8.5/share fully franked 3.64/share.
Gross profit 12.0/share = 9.52% return on investment.  8 days
Looking to re-enter again ??


----------



## rozella (18 April 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold ANZ today @ 2740.0
Bought 7th April @ 2660.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 665.0/share
Exdiv expected 15th May, last years dividend 51.0/share fully franked 21.86/share
Gross profit 80.0/share = 12.03% return on investment.  11 days


----------



## rozella (18 April 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered JST on the close @ 326.0 with a margin of 60%
Investment 130.4/share
Exdiv date 19th April, dividend 8.5/share fully franked 3.64/share.


----------



## OzFrisky (18 April 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi, just curious as to why you sold ANZ today. Was it profit taking before the results announcement so that you can then hop on after for the div ?


----------



## rozella (18 April 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day OzFrisky,

I like to take profits when they are there, not when they might be there.

ANZ does not report until the 2nd of next month, so possibly there will be some down days to re-enter at the right price.  It peaked at 2749.0 today, so I sold as it started to slide.  

Dividend last year was 51.0/share, & assume it will be 55.0 to 57.0 this time.  It is the dividend that I set out to achieve, so any extra is a bonus....this trade was 80.0/share, & I am ready to re-enter if the opportunity arises.


----------



## OzFrisky (18 April 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Ah I see, so you set out on each trade with the aim of trying to make the dividend amount and once you make that you look at selling each time it starts to trend down, take the profit and then look for a re-entry point to do it all again. Interesting, I thought you might have been working off some kind of I have reached x% profit, time to sell order.


----------



## rozella (19 April 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day OzFrisky,

Yes, that is basically it, however, with ANZ I may have outsmarted myself with the DOW being up 194.99 overnight.

Cheers,


----------



## rozella (21 April 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

For those into dividend trading, here are a few results to compare with your own.  

The following portfolio commenced 1st July 2004 with $75000 using only end of day data, selling only when a stoploss is hit, allowing profits to run.

Interest & brokerage is included, & dividends have been added back as received.

1st July 2004 $75,000
21st April 2006 $166619.26 660 days
Portfolio increase $91619.26 122.16%

Ist July 2005 $109,722.26
21st April 2006 $166619.26 295 days
Portfolio increase $56897.00 51.86%

Margin Loan $195932.32
Available credit $63165.07
Buffer $36255.16
Dividends pending payment $3106.10 (not included in portfolio until received)

Purchases 294
Wins 187
Losses 93
Open 14
The transactions to support the Equity Chart can be found at exdividendwatchlist  then click onto Trading Diary 1,Trading Diary 2 & Margin Trading 2


----------



## rozella (24 April 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold RCL today @ 229.0
Bought 16th March @ 228.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 79.80/share
Exdiv date 20th March, dividend 6.5/share fully franked 2.79/share
Gross profit 7.5/share = 9.4% return on investment, fc excluded.   39 days


----------



## rozella (24 April 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold BOQ today @ 1499.0
Bought 6th April @ 1623.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 486.9/share
Exdiv 19th April, dividend 27.0/share, fully franked 11.57/share
Gross loss 97.0/share = 19.92% loss on investment, excluding fc.  18 days

Sold BOQ today @ 1500.0
Bought 7th April @ 1570.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 471.0/share
Exdiv 19th April, dividend 27.0/share, fully franked 11.57/share
Gross loss 43.0/share = 9.13% loss on investment, excluding fc.  17 days

The penalty has been paid for not selling on stoploss.


----------



## rozella (26 April 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold 1 parcel of ADB today @ 1330.0
Bought 2nd February @ 1320.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 396.0/share
Exdiv 9th March, dividend 26.0/share fully franked 11.14/share
Gross profit 47.14/share = 11.90% reurn on investment, incl fc.  83 days


----------



## rozella (3 May 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought SGB today @ 3020.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 755.0/share
Exdiv 14th June, dividend 74.0/share fully franked 31.71/share

Bought IAG today @ 565.0 with a margin of 705
Investment 169.5/share
Exdiv 18th May, special dividend 12.5/share fully franked 5.36/share


----------



## rozella (4 May 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

It was not the best of days, however, I sold some dead wood & bought into a few stocks that have declared their dividends.

Sold last parcel ADB today @ 1300.0
Bought 31st January @ 1328.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 398.4/share
Exdiv 9th March, dividend 26.0/share fully franked 11.14/share
Gross profit 9.14/share = 2.29% return on investment, incl fc. 93 days

Sold HIL today @ 465.0
Bought 6th March @ 507.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 177.45/share
Exdiv date 7th March, dividend 13.0/share fully franked 5.57/share
Gross loss 23.43/share = 13.20% loss on investment, incl fc.  59 days

Sold one parcel WDC today @ 1703.0
Bought 6th January @ 1794.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 448.50/unit
Exdiv 7th February, distribution 55.5/unit, franking to 7.369% 1.753/unit
Gross loss 33.74/unit = 7.52% loss on investment, incl fc.  118 days

Bought another parcel of IAG today @ 560.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 168.0/share
Exdiv 18th May, dividend 12.5/share, fully franked 5.36/share.

Bought ANZ today @ 2770.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 692.50/share
Exdiv 15th May, dividend 56.0/share, fully franked 24.0/share.

Bought WBC today @ 2436.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 609.0/share
Exdiv 1st June, dividend 56.0/share, fully franked 24.0/share.


----------



## rozella (10 May 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold JST today @ 335.0
Bought 18th April @ 326.0 with a margin of 60%
Investment 130.4/share
Exdiv date 19th April, dividend 8.5/share fully franked 3.64/share.
Gross profit 17.5/share = 13.42% return on investment, excl fc.  22 days


----------



## rozella (10 May 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of WBC today @ 2472.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 618.0/share
Exdiv 1st June, dividend 56.0/share, fully franked 24.0/share.


----------



## RichKid (10 May 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Have a look at this Rozella, I reckon you'd be a better manager of the trust considering its performance, a new job for you?? 
(click on Dividend Income Trust tab on left of page): http://www.aurorafunds.com.au/aurora-home.htm


----------



## rozella (11 May 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thanks RichKid, just off to golf.....I will have a good look later this morning.

Cheers


----------



## rozella (11 May 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day RichKid,

I have had a browse of AOD.  Very low volume & share price is not going anywhere, & there are excuses in the HY report for poor performance.  Listing commenced 17th Nov 2005  Excuses again in the AOD April Update..."tracking error on our hedge was more expensive than forecast"...."Resource stocks were more volatile than expected"......"It was difficult to get set at the right price in the companies with positive announcements"

JP Morgan Nominees Australia Ltd was the largest shareholder with 32.78% as at 14th Nov 2005

PRINCIPAL ACTIVITY
The Aurora Sandringham Dividend Income Trust (AOD) is an investment trust that
aims to capture dividend income plus franking credits. The Trust will
predominantly trade the largest 30 companies on the Australian Stock Exchange
and aims to take advantage of the changes in the market prices of shares around
the announcement of their half-yearly and yearly results. This makes the trust
different from other listed investments.

INVESTMENT APPROACH: The investment strategy of the Trust is to take advantage
of the changes in the market prices of shares around the announcement of their
half yearly and yearly results. To capture this opportunity, the Trust intends
to regularly buy shares following their results/dividend announcement and sell
these shares once the Trust has earned the dividend. The focus of the strategy
will be on the 30 largest companies listed on the ASX by market capitalisation.


Last Ten Months trading

..................Close..........H..........L........V............T
May-2006....1005.00...1005.00....950.00...1,310.....3 
Apr-2006...... 970.00....970.00....925.00...38,395...40 
Mar-2006.......970.00...1010.00...965.00...26,665...26 
Feb-2006.......980.00...1045.00...980.00...11,560...22 
Jan-2006......1004.00...1050.00..1000.00...29,900...35 
Dec-2005......1024.00...1100.00..1001.00...5,760...,12 
Nov-2005......1004.00...1010.00...990.00...23,125...20


----------



## rozella (16 May 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold both parcels of CML today.

Sold CML today @ 1119.0
Bought 7th April @ 1111.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 277.75/share
Exdiv date 13th April, dividend 19.5/share, fully franked 8.36/share
Gross profit 27.5/share = 9.90% return on investment, excl fc.  39 days

Sold CML today @ 1120.0
Bought 7th April @ 1111.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 277.75/share
Exdiv date 13th April, dividend 19.5/share, fully franked 8.36/share
Gross profit 28.5/share = 10.26% return on investment, excl fc.  39 days


----------



## rozella (17 May 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought CSR today @ 394.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 118.20/share
Exdiv 6th June, dividend 9.0/share, fully franked 3.857/share


----------



## rozella (18 May 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I left for golf at 6:15am this morning just after the DOW closed down 214 points....put me of my game !!!   To be honest, I expected worse when I returned.  Some good LPT bargains there atm.  I had an order in for DRT yesterday @ 147.0 which I forgot about until I returned just now....it went as low as 145.0 after I bought I see.

I am not going to lose any sleep over today, as we have been expecting this for a while.  My portfolio is down 1.52% today .....atm

Bought DRT today @ 147.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 44.10/share
Exdist expected 23rd June, last years distribution was 5.3/unit zero franked.


----------



## mit (18 May 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

You almost got a better fill with DRT. I hold so I was watching the pre-open and it was down to $1.43 for awhile. Back up to $1.49 atm.

MIT


----------



## rozella (18 May 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day mit,

I forgot I had the order for DIT in the que, & now it is my only "green" stock, I am not usually that lucky.


----------



## rozella (23 May 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I have started putting some orders in for some culling of stocks going nowhere much to finance more LPT's for the upcoming distributions.

Sold IAG today @ 537.0
Bought 3rd May @ 565.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 169.5/share
Exdiv 18th May, special dividend 12.5/share fully franked 5.36/share
Gross loss 15.5/share = 9.14% loss on investment, excl fc.  18 days.

Sold IAG today @ 537.0
Bought 3rd May @ 560.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 168.0/share
Exdiv 18th May, special dividend 12.5/share fully franked 5.36/share
Gross loss 10.5/share = 6.25% loss on investment, excl fc.  18 days.


----------



## rozella (23 May 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold DJS today @ 268.0
Bought 22nd March @ 295.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 103.25/share
Exdiv date 29th March, dividend 7.0/share, fully franked 3.0/share
Gross loss 17.0/share = 16.46% loss on investment, incl fc.  62 days


----------



## rozella (24 May 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought LNN today @ 814.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 244.20/share
Exdiv 29th May, dividend 19.0/share fully franked 8.14/share, 
special dividend 30.0/share fully franked 12.86/share


----------



## rozella (25 May 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold GUD today @ 770.0
Bought 31st January @ 797.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 278.95/share
exdiv 20th February, dividend 27.0/share fully franked 11.57/share
Gross profit 11.57/share = 4.14% return on investment, incl fc.  114 days.

Another stock going nowhere atm.


----------



## twojacks28 (25 May 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

i am guessing rozella that you are a daytrader lol.

generally when the company pays out a dividend the next day the share price will go down by dividend amount


----------



## RodC (25 May 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,

Are you still holding the banks (WBC,WGB,ANZ), they must have come close to being stopped out?

thanks,

Rod.


----------



## rozella (25 May 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day twojacks28,



> i am guessing rozella that you are a daytrader lol



No, I have an average holding time of 35.42 days for this year as at today.



> generally when the company pays out a dividend the next day the share price will go down by dividend amount



I allow for a stock to drop the dividend + franking credit


G'day RodC,



> Are you still holding the banks (WBC,WGB,ANZ), they must have come close to being stopped out?



Yes, I still have all the banks, but should not be holding any atm.  ANZ had a good run yesterday, but half has been eroded today.

Cheers,


----------



## RodC (25 May 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> G'day RodC,
> 
> 
> Yes, I still have all the banks, but should not be holding any atm.  ANZ had a good run yesterday, but half has been eroded today.
> ...




thanks Rozella,

I was just wondering, as I've been stopped out of all of them.

Rod.


----------



## rozella (25 May 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Yes, they have gone through my stoploss.....it can be expensive when the trigger is not pulled.

Bought SGP today @ 670.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 201.0/unit
exdist expected 23rd June, last years distribution was 19.6/unit franked to 20.92% 1.76/unit


----------



## rozella (2 June 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold LNN today @ 790.0
Bought 24th May @ 814.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 244.20/share
Exdiv 29th May, dividend 19.0/share fully franked 8.14/share, 
special dividend 30.0/share fully franked 12.86/share
Gross profit 25.0/share = 10.23% return on investment, fc excl.  9 days


----------



## rozella (6 June 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought AWB today @ 452.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 135.60/share
Exdiv 9th June, dividend 16.0/share fully franked 6.86/share.


----------



## rozella (7 June 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I decided to take some profit from SGP today....I let it slip through my fingers a couple of times in the last day or two.

Sold SGP today @ 703.0 
Bought 25th May @ 670.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 201.0/unit
exdist expected 23rd June, last years distribution was 19.6/unit franked to 20.92% 1.76/unit
Gross profit 33.0/share = 16.41% return on investment.  13 days


----------



## rozella (8 June 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

What a crook day !!!

Sold CSR today @ 346.0
Bought 17th May @ 394.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 118.20/share
Exdiv 6th June, dividend 9.0/share, fully franked 3.857/share
Gross loss 39.0/share = 33.0% loss on investment, fc excl.  22 days

Bought CFX today @ 190.5
Investment 57.15/share
Exdist expected 23rd or 26th June, last years distribution was 5.31/share zero franked


----------



## RichKid (9 June 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Rozella,
Have you had much luck trading STW with this method? Any views of how the sp behaves, I note it tracks the XJO like a bloodhound. I've noted some big ex-div drops. Any idea what the next div will be? Ex-div on 26th June, link to co info page on ASX: http://www.asx.com.au/asx/research/...principalActivity=&industryGroup=NO#dividends


----------



## rozella (9 June 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day RichKid,

Yes, it looks like it will go exdistribution on 26th June along with about 40 LPT's, but they have not announced as yet.

No, I don't trade STW as the volumes always worry me with huge gaps between buy/sell.  atm 4978/4997....last price is 4963 @ 15:07:22


----------



## RichKid (9 June 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> G'day RichKid,
> 
> Yes, it looks like it will go exdistribution on 26th June along with about 40 LPT's, but they have not announced as yet.
> 
> No, I don't trade STW as the volumes always worry me with huge gaps between buy/sell.  atm 4978/4997....last price is 4963 @ 15:07:22




Thanks Rozella,
It's a listed XJO tracking fund but the spread is wide as you say, it was 10c difference around the time I posted, from memory, I can see that's doubled. Interesting what you get to know about div's, I didn't realise so many would go ex div at once but tax time explains it.


----------



## rozella (10 June 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day RichKid,

I was only guessing when I said 40 stocks would go exdividend/exdistribution on the same day.....well I was wrong.....last year there 64 on 24th June, which this year will be 26th June, the majority are LPT's.  It just so happens that I am using the 23rd June 2005 as a Sample Watchlist on my website, so anyone interested can see which stocks may be coming up around that time, remembering that some of those stocks possibly don't exist, or circumstances have changed, so don't rely on information without checking the latest details.

For those that are not aware of STW, the following is their profile.

 PRINCIPAL ACTIVITY
Street TRACKS S&P/ASX 200 Fund (STW) is an investment fund that tracks the S&P/ASX 200 Accumulation Index. The responsible entity for the fund is State Street Global Advisers, Australia Services Limited.

INVESTMENT STRATEGY: The Fund employs a passive investment strategy, investing in securities comprising the S&P/ASX 200 Accumulation Index in proportion to their relative weightings. The Fund may hold derivative contracts (such as forwards, futures, options and swaps over securities in the Index) if the investment manager believes that the Fund's investment objective can be better achieved by doing so. Derivatives will only be used for trading purposes (such as hedging to protect an asset in the Fund against fluctuation or as a substitution for trading physical securities), and not for the purpose of gearing the Fund.


----------



## Bodhi2500 (10 June 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,

Could you help me understand an aspect of your 'sample watchlist'. I'm unclear how you get the 9.43 franking credit amount in the example below.

Code.......Last price...Div amt..Franking credit..Fr credit %
ANC.ASX.....875...........22...........9.43...............100 



Thanks
Bodhi


----------



## RichKid (10 June 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> G'day RichKid,
> 
> I was only guessing when I said 40 stocks would go exdividend/exdistribution on the same day.....well I was wrong.....last year there 64 on 24th June, which this year will be 26th June, the majority are LPT's.  It just so happens that I am using the 23rd June 2005 as a Sample Watchlist on my website, so anyone interested can see which stocks may be coming up around that time, remembering that some of those stocks possibly don't exist, or circumstances have changed, so don't rely on information without checking the latest details.
> 
> ...




Thanks Rozella, I've found more info in the STW/Streetracks threads too.


----------



## rozella (12 June 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				Bodhi2500 said:
			
		

> Hi Rozella,
> 
> Could you help me understand an aspect of your 'sample watchlist'. I'm unclear how you get the 9.43 franking credit amount in the example below.
> 
> ...



G'day Bodhi2500,

ANC is 100% franked.....22 x 0.42857 = 9.43

Franking credit = dividend x 0.42857 if it 100% franked (example)
Franking credit = dividend x 0.42857 x 0.80 if it 80% franked (example)
Franking credit = dividend x 0.42857 x 0.35 if it 35% franked (example)

The 0.42857 comes from a gross dividend of (example) 100 cents
Companies pay a 30% tax rate
Net dividend is 70 cents
Tax is 30 cents (franking)
30/70 = 0.428757

So if the dividend was only franked to 57.5% as in the case of ALZ (on the sample watchlist)  Franking credit = 4.0 (div) x 0.42857 x 0.575 = 99.0


----------



## Bodhi2500 (12 June 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> G'day Bodhi2500,
> 
> ANC is 100% franked.....22 x 0.42857 = 9.43
> 
> ...




Thanks.

Bodhi


----------



## rozella (12 June 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Correction:



> So if the dividend was only franked to 57.5% as in the case of ALZ (on the sample watchlist) Franking credit = 4.0 (div) x 0.42857 x 0.575 = 99.0




That should be Franking credit = 4.0 (div) x 0.42857 x 0.575 = *0.99* (It is correct on the sample watchlist)


----------



## Bodhi2500 (12 June 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Heya Rozella



			
				Rozella said:
			
		

> 30/70 = 0.428757




Shouldnt this be:

 30/70 =0.42857  (?)

Another question regarding the 45 day/under $5000 rule... If you acquired more than $5000 worth of franked credits in under 45 day trades, is it the case that you cannot claim for only those over the $5000 limit, or do you forfeit the ability to claim for any of the under 45 day trade credits?

Cheers
Bodhi


----------



## rozella (12 June 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Bodhi2500,



> 30/70 =0.42857



I thought thats what I wrote



> Another question regarding the 45 day/under $5000 rule... If you acquired more than $5000 worth of franked credits in under 45 day trades, is it the case that you cannot claim for only those over the $5000 limit, or do you forfeit the ability to claim for any of the under 45 day trade credits?



If you go over your $5000 limit, you can only claim those franking credits for trades greater than 45 days + the buy & sell days......you forfeit all franking credits for trades under 45 days.


----------



## Bodhi2500 (12 June 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> If you go over your $5000 limit, you can only claim those franking credits for trades greater than 45 days + the buy & sell days......you forfeit all franking credits for trades under 45 days.




Thanks Again.

Bodhi


----------



## rozella (15 June 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered SGP today @ 703.4 average with a margin of 70%
Investment 211.02/unit
exdist expected 26th June, last years distribution was 19.6/unit franked to 20.92% 1.76/unit


----------



## rozella (23 June 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought IPG today @ 217.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 65.10/share
Exdistribution 26th June, distribution 8.45/unit, franking TBA

Big day Monday with at least 85 stocks being quoted exdistribution/exdividend, mainly LPT's


----------



## rozella (27 June 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold DRT on the open today @ 149.0
Bought 18th May @ 147.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 44.10/share
Exdist 26th June, distribution 5.55/unit, zero franked
Gross profit 7.55/unit = 17.12% return on investment.  40 days

Sold IPG today @ 219.0
Bought 23rd June @ 217.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 65.10/share
Exdist 26th June, distribution 8.45/unit, franking TBA
Gross profit 10.45/unit = 16.05% return on investment.   4 days


----------



## rozella (27 June 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold SGP today @ 704.0
Bought 15th June @ 703.4 with a margin of 70%
Investment 211.02/unit
Exdist 26th June, distribution 20.9/unit, franking tba.
Gross profit 21.5/unit = 10.19% return on investment, fc excl.  12 days


----------



## rozella (30 June 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought DJW today @ 460.34 with a margin of 70%
Investment 138.10/share
Exdiv expected around 8th August, last years div was 12.5/share fully franked 5.36/share


----------



## TraderPro (30 June 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Are you using some sort of leverage for your dividend strategy?

Namely margin lending or instalmant warrants? cheers!


----------



## rozella (1 July 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				TraderPro said:
			
		

> Are you using some sort of leverage for your dividend strategy?
> 
> Namely margin lending or instalmant warrants? cheers!



G'day TraderPro,

I use marginlending......there is plenty of discussion on this site marginlending v warrants.  I prefer marginlending.


----------



## rozella (6 July 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought CBA today @ 4473.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1118.25/share
Announcement expected 9th August, exdiv expected 14th August, last years dividend was 112.0/share fully franked 48.0/share.


----------



## rozella (7 July 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of CBA today @ 4510.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1127.5/share
Announcement expected 9th August, exdiv expected 14th August, last years dividend was 112.0/share fully franked 48.0/share.


----------



## rozella (12 July 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold CFX today @ 191.0
Bought 8th June @ 190.5 with a margin of 70%
Investment 57.15/unit
Exdist 26th June, distribution 5.64/unit zero franked
Gross profit 6.14/unit = 10.74% return on investment.  34 days


----------



## scsl (12 July 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

just wandering if any of you are using your dividend trading strategies on the upcoming Rinker return of capital... 
the ex-return date is july 19


----------



## rozella (12 July 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

50 cents capital return is good, however, I am not in it.....its hard to trade them all.  RIN has been dropping steadily for the last 2.5 months.....2222.0 in April & now @ 1598.0 today & its up 30 cents


----------



## rozella (13 July 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold DJW today @ 474.08 in bits & pieces.....volume very low.
Bought 30th June @ 460.34 with a margin of 70%
Investment 138.10/share
Exdiv 20th July, dividend 13.0/share fully franked 5.57/share
Gross profit 13.74/share = 9.95% return on investment.  13 days

I always seem to have a positive trade on this one each period, however, volume is a worry, so small doses only.


----------



## mit (13 July 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Sold DJW today @ 474.08 in bits & pieces.....volume very low.
> Bought 30th June @ 460.34 with a margin of 70%
> Investment 138.10/share
> Exdiv 20th July, dividend 13.0/share fully franked 5.57/share
> ...




That's why I didn't buy it this round. These low liquidity stocks are a pain to buy and sell.  

MIT


----------



## rozella (14 July 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of CBA today @ 4391.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1097.75/share
Announcement expected 9th August, exdiv expected 14th August, last years dividend was 112.0/share fully franked 48.0/share.


----------



## rozella (18 July 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought WAN today @ 858.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 257.4/share
Announcement expected around 3rd August, exdiv expected 11th September, last years dividend was 23.0/share fully franked 9.86/share.


----------



## robots (21 July 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

hello rozella,

from looking at your equity graph you have come off a bit.

do you start to alter your stops ie. to may be hang-on a bit longer hoping for a lift?

or just move on?

thankyou
robots


----------



## michael_selway (21 July 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> G'day michael_selway,
> 
> I have had less trades this FY than usual.
> 
> ...




Hi i wonder hwo u go when market is bearish liek as in now?

thx

MS


----------



## kgee (22 July 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				michael_selway said:
			
		

> Hi i wonder hwo u go when market is bearish liek as in now?
> 
> thx
> 
> MS



Hey Michael did you realise your personal messages are over the quota and you can't recieve new ones?


----------



## michael_selway (22 July 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				kgee said:
			
		

> Hey Michael did you realise your personal messages are over the quota and you can't recieve new ones?




oh ok, I deleted some    

thx

MS


----------



## rozella (22 July 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				robots said:
			
		

> hello rozella,
> 
> from looking at your equity graph you have come off a bit.
> 
> ...



G'day robots & MS,

If I added in the pending dividends, then the equity chart would not look so savage, however, this will start to catch up in August as all those dividends are paid....there is a considerable amount plus the new reporting season will keep it topped up.

The equity chart follows the liquid cash if the portfolio is cashed out.  The pending dividends are guaranteed but not received & not included in the chart.  If I was using CFD's the the equity chart would have the dividends included as they are paid to compensate on exdiv day.

On the 26th June 2006 we had 14 stocks quoted exdividend, so it was unfortunate to have a double whammy of a correction + exdivs, however, divs will be paid shortly & for those that trade dividends, they will know that we have pushed profits into the next FY by doing this.

robot, you are referring to the end of day strategy that is shown on my website, & MS you are refering to my own personal trades that I post on the forum.....two different strategies using the same pool of stocks.

MS said 







> Hi i wonder hwo u go when market is bearish liek as in now?



We have certainly had bearish periods & disasters over the past 8/9 years since I have been trading this way, however, I have been able to make a decent living from trading cum-dividend stocks during that time.

Cheers,


----------



## rozella (22 July 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Here is the comparison between 2004/2005 & 2005/2006 for the portfolio on my website exdividendwatchlist go to Archives on the menu

or


----------



## robots (22 July 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

hello,

great effort, plenty of people would be over the moon with those reults.

thankyou
robots


----------



## rozella (28 July 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thanks robots.

Bought ALS today @ 899.25 with a margin of 60%
Investment 359.70/share
Exdiv 11th August, dividend 31.0/share fully franked 13.29/share


----------



## rozella (31 July 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold WDC today @ 1845.0
Bought 6th January @ 1786.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 446.50/unit
Exdist 7th February, distribution 55.5/unit, 7.37% franked 1.75/unit
Gross profit 116.25/unit = 26.03% return on investment.  206 days


----------



## rozella (2 August 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered WDC @ 1835.0 today with a margin of 75%
Investment 458.75/unit
Annoucement expected this week, exdistribution expected 9th August, last years distribution was 51.07/unit, 12.57% franked 2.75/unit.


----------



## rozella (4 August 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Entered another parcel of WDC on the close today @ 1835.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 458.75/unit
Announced today, exdistribution 9th August, distribution 54.5/unit, franking TBA


----------



## robots (4 August 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

hello,

any interest in WES, I think is coming up for dividend

thanks
robots


----------



## rozella (5 August 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day robots,

WES is expected to announce on 15th August & usually pays a nice dividend....it was 127.0/share fully franked this period last year, however, I don't like the direction its price is travelling atm.  Hopefully it will bottom out soon for an entry, but it will need to hurry.


----------



## michael_selway (5 August 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Entered another parcel of WDC on the close today @ 1835.0 with a margin of 75%
> Investment 458.75/unit
> Announced today, exdistribution 9th August, distribution 54.5/unit, franking TBA




hi u bought so many WDC?

also it appears u are buyign closer to the ex dividend date recently?

thx

MS


----------



## rozella (5 August 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day MS,



> hi u bought so many WDC?



The truth is that I was off to golf early on Monday morning & said to Mrs rozella "keep an eye on WDC, & do what you gotta do if I am not back by open".......I was late back....it dropped so she sold it.  During the week I re-entered in two separate parcels as above for slightly less than it was sold at....no worries.  WDC has been reasonably strong this week.



> also it appears u are buyign closer to the ex dividend date recently?



Yes, I am 103% in the market (into buffer most of the time) so to buy something, I must sell something, but deals have not been too frequent lately & my existing stocks have been climbing very slowly.  So of late, I have been mainly waiting for the announcement, selling my worst stock for a replacement that I think will run up quicker.

The reporting season has just kicked off, so there will be some action shortly.


----------



## rozella (9 August 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Entered another parcel of CBA today @ 4620.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1155.0/share
Reported today, exdiv 14th August, dividend 130.0/share fully franked 55.71/share


----------



## rozella (14 August 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold WAN today @ 915.0
Bought WAN 18th July @ 858.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 257.4/share
Exdiv 11th September, dividend 28.0/share, fully franked 12.0/share
Gross profit 57.0/share = 22.14% return on investment.  27 days.


----------



## rozella (14 August 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold 2 parcels of WDC today @ 1837.0

Sold WDC today @ 1837.0
Bought 2nd August @ 1835.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 458.75/unit
Exdistribution 9th August, distribution 54.5/unit, franking TBA.
Gross profit 56.5/unit = 12.31% return on investment.  12 days

Sold WDC today @ 1837.0
Bought 4th August @ 1835.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 458.75/unit
Exdistribution 9th August, distribution 54.5/unit, franking TBA.
Gross profit 56.5/unit = 12.31% return on investment.  10 days


----------



## robots (15 August 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

hello rozella,

when you set up margin lending

being a full-time player from what I gather, did u have any issue with providers regarding employment ie paying margin loan

or is this not as critical when applying for margin loan

thankyou
robots


----------



## michael_selway (15 August 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Entered another parcel of CBA today @ 4620.0 with a margin of 75%
> Investment 1155.0/share
> Reported today, exdiv 14th August, dividend 130.0/share fully franked 55.71/share




Hi how did this parcel of CBA go?

Havent sold yet?

thx

MS


----------



## rozella (15 August 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day robots,

Yes, trading is my full time occupation.

When applying for a margin loan, there is a space to provide your assets, liabilities & income.  They don't usually ask to provide any info to justify these, however, you sign on the dotted line saying all is true.

Banks may be different as they usually want everything you own.


----------



## rozella (15 August 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day MS,



> Originally Posted by rozella
> Entered another parcel of CBA today @ 4620.0 with a margin of 75%
> Investment 1155.0/share
> Reported today, exdiv 14th August, dividend 130.0/share fully franked 55.71/share



This is how I do it.
Bought CBA on 9th August @ 4620.0 stoploss 4481.0
10th August closing price 4579.0 stoploss 4481.0
11th August closing price 4575.0 stoploss 4481.0
14th August closing price 4457.0 (exdiv date) 
stoploss adjusted by div + fc = 185.71
new stoploss 4296.0

CBA usually takes 45 to 60 days to return to the buy price, so this works in okay with claiming the franking credits.
As I type the current price is 4439.0 plus dividend & franking credit = 4624.71 so we are square atm.


----------



## rozella (15 August 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought WES on the close today @ 3380.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 845.0/share
Announced today, exdiv 21st August, dividend 150.0/share fully franked 64.286/share


----------



## NettAssets (15 August 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Bought WES on the close today @ 3380.0 with a margin of 75%
> Investment 845.0/share
> Announced today, exdiv 21st August, dividend 150.0/share fully franked 64.286/share




This should be a good trade there is a lot of upside here and it would not suprise me to get a few aquisition rumours to help the SP along.
Actually I thought the terrible season in the west would have impacted the fertilizer business more but I guess most of the sales up to june where prepaid so the impact will be spread into 2007 more.


----------



## rozella (15 August 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				NettAssets said:
			
		

> This should be a good trade there is a lot of upside here and it would not suprise me to get a few aquisition rumours to help the SP along.
> Actually I thought the terrible season in the west would have impacted the fertilizer business more but I guess most of the sales up to june where prepaid so the impact will be spread into 2007 more.



The outlook for the next 12 months appears to be the problem.....it seems to carry more weight than the balance sheet.....& the traders didn't like it.
Wesfarmers sees lower profit in FY07, yr pft jumps 49pct


----------



## NettAssets (15 August 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> The outlook for the next 12 months appears to be the problem.....it seems to carry more weight than the balance sheet.....& the traders didn't like it.



I think it will be one of those things that the market will digest over a little time  At least a good 2006 result has surely given a solid base under the share price and the new MD some credence which he appeared to be lacking.
John


----------



## rozella (16 August 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold a parcel of CBA today @ 4502.0
Bought 14th July @ 4391.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1097.75/share
Exdiv 14th August, dividend 130.0/share fully franked 55.71/share
Gross profit 241.0/share = 21.95% return on investment, fc excluded.  33 days.


----------



## michael_selway (16 August 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Sold a parcel of CBA today @ 4502.0
> Bought 14th July @ 4391.0 with a margin of 75%
> Investment 1097.75/share
> Exdiv 14th August, dividend 130.0/share fully franked 55.71/share
> Gross profit 241.0/share = 21.95% return on investment, fc excluded.  33 days.




what about the other parcel? havent sold yet?

thx

MS


----------



## rozella (16 August 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day MS,

I am still holding 3 more parcels of CBA....these are all in the one account, just bought at different times & will probably sell as 1 parcel.  Unfortunately the last parcel I purchased was only 7 days ago, so it will fall into the last in first out rule regarding franking credits.  The other 2 are in the 41/42 days area.  

The parcel I sold today was a separate tax entity & I forfeit the franking credit.

Also I am still holding CBA in a CFD account which is square after dividend, interest & commission


----------



## rozella (18 August 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold ALS today @ 902.0
Bought 28th July @ 899.25 with a margin of 60%
Investment 359.70/share
Exdiv 11th August, dividend 31.0/share fully franked 13.29/share
Gross profit 33.75/share = 9.38% return on investment, excl fc.  21 days


----------



## rozella (24 August 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought AMP today @ 884.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 221.0/share
Reported today, exdiv 25th September, dividend 19.0, 85% franked.


----------



## rozella (24 August 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sometimes you can be lucky.  Thursday morning is my golf day, so yesterday near close, I placed an order to sell CBA @ 4575.0.  Came back from golf around midday to see CBA @ 4504.0, so sold my CFD holdings @ 4504.0 & have been cranky all afternoon with myself that I did not sell my margin holdings yesterday when I had the opportunity @ 4575.0

At 5.00pm just as I was tallying up my losses for the day, I received an emailed contract note that my CBA was sold on the open @ 4580.0......been so busy that I did not look at my open orders during the day.

Sold CBA today @ 4580.0
Bought 7th July @ 4510.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1127.5/share
exdiv 14th August, dividend 130.0/share, fully franked 55.71/share
Gross profit 200.0/share = 17.73% return on investment.  fc excl.  48 days

Sold CBA today @ 4580.0
Bought 6th July @ 4473.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1118.25/share
exdiv 14th August, dividend 130.0/share, fully franked 55.71/share
Gross profit 237.0/share = 21.19% return on investment.  fc excl.  49 days

Unfortunately I still have another parcel of CBA which is nowhere near 45 days, so with the last in, first out rule, I forfeit the franking credits.

CBA closed @ 4451.0 today


----------



## rozella (4 September 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold AMP today @ 912.0
Bought 24th August @ 884.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 221.0/share
exdiv 25th September, dividend 19.0, 85% franked.
Gross profit 28.0/share = 12.67% return on investment.  11 days


----------



## rozella (4 September 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Not very often, a stock will return to its cum dividend price, plus some, on exdiv day.....today it was JBM, but unfortunately it is difficult to judge & I missed a swag of it.  It closed @ 929.0 after reaching a high of 930.0.....up 4.0 for the day plus the dividend9.43%.

I have been flat out with reading reports for the last few weeks so have been slack with posting trades.  

Sold JBM today @ 908.0
Bought 30th August @ 901.0 with a margin of 60%
Investment 360.4/share
exdiv date 4th September, dividend 27.0/share, fully franked 11.57/share
Gross profit 34.0/share = 9.43% return on investment excl fc.  5 days

Bought SUN today @ 2105.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 526.25/share
Exdiv date 6th September, dividend 50.0/share fully franked 21.43/share


----------



## rozella (6 September 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought AMP today @ 902.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 225.5/share
Exdiv 25th September, dividend 19.0, 85% franked.


----------



## rozella (11 September 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought SGM today @ 2068.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 620.4/share
Exdiv 29th September, dividend 60.0/share, 51% franked 13.11/share


----------



## rozella (11 September 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought BIL today @ 1177.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 353.1/share
Exdiv 18th September
Ordinary dividend 13.5/share, fully franked 5.79/share
Special dividend 34.5/share, fully franked 14.79/share


----------



## rozella (12 September 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold SUN today @ 2117.0
Bought 4th September @ 2105.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 526.25/share
Exdiv date 6th September, dividend 50.0/share fully franked 21.43/share
Gross profit 62.0/share = 11.78% return on investment.  8 days


----------



## rozella (12 September 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought ADB today @ 1317.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 395.1/share
Exdiv 21st September, dividend 32.0/share fully franked 13.71/share


----------



## Duckman#72 (19 September 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella

What do you think of the Great Southern div coming up? SP too volatile? Nice yield though.

Regards

Duckman


----------



## rozella (19 September 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

GTP is on my exdiv list as a boxed stock which means it then goes onto a watchlist that I monitor.  Increased profit, increased dividend, but the marginlending LVR is only 60%, so I prefer others to maximise profits (hopefully)


----------



## rozella (23 September 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold BIL 22nd September on the close @ 1200.0
Bought 11th September @ 1177.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 353.1/share
Exdiv 18th September
Ordinary dividend 13.5/share, fully franked 5.79/share
Special dividend 34.5/share, fully franked 14.79/share
Gross profit 71.0/share = 20.11% return on investment, excl fc.  11 days


----------



## robots (25 September 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

hello rozella

do you alter you're stoploss to hang in a position?

or is the stoploss governed by the margin loan?


thankyou
robots


----------



## rozella (25 September 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				robots said:
			
		

> hello rozella
> 
> do you alter you're stoploss to hang in a position?
> 
> ...



A stoploss trails upwards only.  The only time it should be adjusted down is on exdiv day.

The margin loan is not relevant to the stoploss.


----------



## rozella (26 September 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought SBC in bits & pieces over a couple of days @ 1294.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 452.9/share
Exdiv 27th September, dividend 34.0/share, fully franked 14.57/share.


----------



## rozella (28 September 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold MYO today which I have had far too long, but has had some good movement of late.

Sold MYO today @ 105.2 average
Bought MYO 24th March @ 104.0 with a margin of 50%
Investment 52.0/share
Exdiv 28th March, dividend 2.75 + 1.25 special = 4.0/share, fully franked 1.71/share
Gross profit 6.91/share = 13.29% return on investment.  188 days

Interest ate up 2.31/share.  Its the only franking credit I have been able to claim for more than 3 months.


----------



## rozella (29 September 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought DJS today @ 348.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 121.80/share
Exdiv 6th October, dividend 9.0/share, fully franked 3.86/share


----------



## rozella (2 October 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold WES today on the open @ 3525.0
Bought on 15th August @ 3380.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 845.0/share
Exdiv 21st August, dividend 150.0/share fully franked 64.286/share
Gross profit 359.29/share = 42.52% return on investment.  48 days  fc incl.


----------



## rozella (3 October 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold SGM today @ 2093.0
Bought 11th September @ 2068.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 620.4/share
Exdiv 29th September, dividend 60.0/share, 51% franked 13.11/share
Gross profit 85.0/share = 13.7% return on investment.  fc excl.  22 days


----------



## rozella (3 October 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold SGB today @ 3060.0
Bought 3rd May @ 3020.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 755.0/share
Exdiv 14th June, dividend 74.0/share fully franked 31.71/share
Gross profit 145.71/share = 19.3% return on investment.  incl fc.  153 days


----------



## rozella (4 October 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold AMP today @ 906.0
Bought 6th September @ 902.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 225.5/share
Exdiv 25th September, dividend 19.0, 85% franked.
Gross profit 23.0/share = 10.2% return on investment.  fc excl.  28 days


----------



## rozella (5 October 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Who would expected the market to jump like it has today.  Just back from my Thursday golf comp to a sea of green.  I have had some highish sell orders in for a while & CBA was sold on the open.....it climbed 30.0 more after open.

Sold CBA today on the open @ 4650.0 
Bought 9th August @ 4620.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1155.0/share
Exdiv 14th August, dividend 130.0/share fully franked 55.71/share
Gross profit 215.71/share = 18.67% return on investment, incl fc.  57 days


----------



## rozella (5 October 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold SBC today @ average 1298.6
Bought 26th September @ 1294.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 452.9/share
Exdiv 27th September, dividend 34.0/share, fully franked 14.57/share.
Gross profit 38.6/share = 8.52% return on investment, excl fc.  9 days


----------



## rozella (6 October 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold ADB on the open today @ 1328.0
Bought 12th September @ 1317.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 395.1/share
Exdiv 21st September, dividend 32.0/share fully franked 13.71/share
Gross profit 43.0/share = 10.88% return on investment, fc excl.  24 days

Sold DJS on the open today @ 359.0
Bought 29th September @ 348.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 121.80/share
Exdiv 6th October, dividend 9.0/share, fully franked 3.86/share
Gross profit 20.0/share = 16.42% return on investment, excl fc.  7 days

The DJS trade was one of the few that has reached target selling price on exdiv day.


----------



## rozella (7 October 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought NAB yesterday @ 3746.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 936.5/share
Expected to report 3rd November, exdiv expected 10th November, 
Last years dividend was 83.0/share 80% franked 28.46/share.


----------



## rozella (12 October 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I placed some low priced orders for 6 LPTs a few days ago CFX, CNP, CPA, DRT, MCW & SGP & just cracked CFX.

Bought CFX today @ 200.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 60.0/share
Distribution estimate expected 15th December, exdist expected 21st December.
Distrubution last year was 5.46/unit zero franked.


----------



## rozella (13 October 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold NAB today @ 3816.0
Bought 4th April @ average 3711.85 with a margin of 75%
Investment 927.963/share
Exdiv 2nd June, dividend 83.0/share, 80% franked 28.45/share
Gross profit 215.6/share = 23.23% return on investment, fc incl.  192 days.

Not a great trade as interest takes 130.36/share from the gross profit.


----------



## rozella (17 October 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered NAB today @ 3743.0 with a 75% margin
Investment 935.75/share
Dividend announcement expected 3rd November, exdiv expected 10th November.
Last years dividend was 83.0/share 80% franked 28.46/share


----------



## rozella (17 October 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought DRT today @ 165.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 49.5/unit
Estimated distribution announcement expected 18th December.
exdist expected 21st December, last years dist was 5.45/unit, zero franked


----------



## rozella (17 October 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought SGB today @ 3193.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 798.25/share
Dividend announcement expected 1st November, exdiv expected 29th November.
Last years dividend was 70.0/share fully franked 30.0/share


----------



## rozella (18 October 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought CPA today @ 143.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 42.90/unit
Estimated distribution announcement expected around 18th December.
exdist expected 21st December, last years dist was 4.83/unit, zero franked


----------



## rozella (20 October 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

GPT reported this morning.....it does not meet my yield/distribution criteria as it pays quarterly, however, quite often it is good for a quick trade on the leadup to exdistribution.

Bought GPT today @ 473.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 141.9/unit
Exdistribution 25th October, distribution 6.9/unit zero franked

I have placed a sell order at 480.0


----------



## rozella (23 October 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of SGB today on the open @ 3213.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 803.25/share
Dividend announcement expected 1st November, exdiv expected 29th November.
Last years dividend was 70.0/share fully franked 30.0/share


----------



## rozella (24 October 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold GPT today @ 480.0
Bought 20th October @ 473.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 141.9/unit
Exdistribution 25th October, distribution 6.9/unit zero franked
Gross profit 7.0/unit = 4.93% return on investment.  4 days


----------



## rozella (24 October 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold CPA today @ 148.0
Bought 18th October @ 143.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 42.90/unit
Estimated distribution announcement expected around 18th December.
exdist expected 21st December, last years dist was 4.83/unit, zero franked
Gross profit 5.0/unit = 11.65% return on investment.  6 days


----------



## rozella (25 October 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought MCG today @ 624.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 218.4/unit
Distribution announcement expected around 19th December.
Exdistribution expected 21st December
Last years distribution was 19.5/unit, zero franked.


----------



## rozella (26 October 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold an older parcel of ANZ today @ 2897.0
Bought 4th May @ 2770.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 692.50/share
Exdiv 15th May, dividend 56.0/share, fully franked 24.0/share.
Gross profit 207.0/share = 29.89% return on investment, incl fc.  164 days

I am hoping to re-enter at a lower price prior to exdiv.

ps made some nice $$$'s with CFDs today on CBA & ANZ


----------



## rozella (26 October 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold 2 parcels of NAB today @ 3850.0
Bought 6th October @ 3746.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 936.5/share
Gross profit 104.0/share = 11.10% return on investment.  20 days

Bought 17th October @ 3743.0 with a 75% margin
Investment 935.75/share
Gross profit 107.0/share = 11.43% return on investment.  9 days

Expected to report 3rd November, exdiv expected 10th November, 
Last years dividend was 83.0/share 80% franked 28.46/share.

I hope to re-enter at a lower price prior to exdiv.


----------



## hypnotic (26 October 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Sold an older parcel of ANZ today @ 2897.0
> Bought 4th May @ 2770.0 with a margin of 75%
> Investment 692.50/share
> Exdiv 15th May, dividend 56.0/share, fully franked 24.0/share.
> ...




You sure have.. the banks are doing very well, and looking strong in my opionion for the comming months with a predicting interest rate rise.


----------



## rozella (26 October 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day hypnotic,

I have been locking in some profits on the banks because they usually drop on a rate rise.....I don't like to see good profits slip away & if they keep rising, I can always buy back in & miss a little bit.

This is an interesting situation as ANZ, SGB, NAB & WBC all report prior to the RBA's announcement on the 8th November, then go exdiv after that date, so there could be some volatility, & I am hoping to re-enter on a low day.  ANZ goes exdiv on the 9th November.


----------



## rozella (26 October 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought MCW on the close today @ 200.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 70.0/share
Estimated distribution announcement expected around 18th December.
exdist expected 21st December, last years dist was 7.6/unit, zero franked


----------



## hypnotic (28 October 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> G'day hypnotic,
> 
> I have been locking in some profits on the banks because they usually drop on a rate rise.....I don't like to see good profits slip away & if they keep rising, I can always buy back in & miss a little bit.
> 
> This is an interesting situation as ANZ, SGB, NAB & WBC all report prior to the RBA's announcement on the 8th November, then go exdiv after that date, so there could be some volatility, & I am hoping to re-enter on a low day.  ANZ goes exdiv on the 9th November.




Yeah they have been great. (better if i had bought in  : ) 

Can i ask why they drop on a rate rise? I am relatively new to this, is there a particular reason? Or they just historically how the market reacts?

I like to hear your view on the volatility, you'll expect them to drop dramatically after the 9th?

Keep up with the good work. Enjoy reading your posts.   

Hypnotic


----------



## Julia (28 October 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				hypnotic said:
			
		

> Yeah they have been great. (better if i had bought in  : )
> 
> Can i ask why they drop on a rate rise? I am relatively new to this, is there a particular reason? Or they just historically how the market reacts?
> 
> ...



Hypnotic,

Usually (but not always) a share will drop when it goes ex dividend by roughly the amount of the dividend.  The reason is obvious.  If you buy it cum dividend (before the ex-div date) you will be paid the dividend but if you buy it after the ex-div date then you will not receive that dividend amount.
So if a share's dividend is 10c per share it's fairly common for the stock to drop that much on going ex-dividend.  

Hope that helps.

Julia


----------



## hypnotic (28 October 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				Julia said:
			
		

> Hypnotic,
> 
> Usually (but not always) a share will drop when it goes ex dividend by roughly the amount of the dividend.  The reason is obvious.  If you buy it cum dividend (before the ex-div date) you will be paid the dividend but if you buy it after the ex-div date then you will not receive that dividend amount.
> So if a share's dividend is 10c per share it's fairly common for the stock to drop that much on going ex-dividend.
> ...




Hi Julia,

Thanks for your response, you might have misinterpreted my question, i was asking why roz was saying share prices of banks will usually drop after a RATE RISE. Or is it that the sharemarket usually drops after a rate rise?? But i would have thought banks would go up?


----------



## rozella (29 October 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				hypnotic said:
			
		

> Can i ask why they drop on a rate rise? I am relatively new to this, is there a particular reason? Or they just historically how the market reacts?
> 
> I like to hear your view on the volatility, you'll expect them to drop dramatically after the 9th?
> 
> Hypnotic



Generally the banks drop on a rate rise as it is expected that they will have less new customers borrowing.  They will be paying a higher rate for their cash too, however, it is usually just a kneejerk reaction that may last a few days or so.....maybe a few weeks, then start rising again.

This is my opinion only, so expect the unexpected.  

I sold most of my bank stocks on Thursday & Friday at high prices, including those held in CFDs, but I am hoping to re-enter on Monday at prices 40 or 50 cents lower after the DOW took a drop on Friday.  I think all the banks will have good reports this week, so then the plan is to sell again prior to the RBA announcement........sounds okay in theory, but we will see what happens.....I may be way off course.


----------



## rozella (4 November 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Catching up on some posts.

Re-entered NAB on 30th October @ 3800.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 950.0/share
Reported 3rd November, exdiv 10th November, dividend 84.0/share 90% franked 32.4/share

Re-entered CPA on 30th October @ 143.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 42.9/unit
Estimated distribution announcement expected around 18th December.
exdist expected 21st December, last years dist was 4.83/unit, zero franked

Bought SGP on 30th October @ 747.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 224.1/unit
Estimated distribution announcement expected around 18th December.
exdist expected 21st December, last years dist was 20.5/unit, 21.98% franked 1.93/unit

Re-entered ANZ on 3rd November @ 2961.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 740.25/share
Reported 26th October, exdiv 9th November, dividend 69.0/share fully franked 29.57/share


----------



## rozella (6 November 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold SGP today @ 781.0
Bought 30th October @ 747.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 224.1/unit
Estimated distribution announcement expected around 18th December.
exdist expected 21st December, last years dist was 20.5/unit, 21.98% franked 1.93/unit
Gross profit 34.0/unit = 15.17% return on investment.  7 days

Will re-enter if opportunity arises before exdistribution.


----------



## rozella (7 November 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I have been uncertain as to how the banks will behave tomorrow when the RBA raises the rate, so near the close today I unloaded a bit.  Once I have an idea which way they will go tomorrow, I will possibly buy back in at the best price I can get.  I might lose a little, but I hate losing what I already have if it goes the wrong way.

Sold SGB today @ 3357.0
Bought 17th October @ 3193.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 798.25/share
Dividend announcement 1st November, exdiv 29th November.
Dividend 77.0/share fully franked 33.0/share
Gross profit 164.0/share = 20.54% return on investment.  21 days

Sold SGB today @ 3357.0
Bought 23rd October @ 3213.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 803.25/share
Dividend announcement 1st November, exdiv 29th November.
Dividend 77.0/share fully franked 33.0/share
Gross profit 144.0/share = 17.93% return on investment.  15 days

Sold NAB today @ 4025.0
Bought 30th October @ 3800.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 950.0/share
Reported 3rd November, exdiv 10th November, dividend 84.0/share 90% franked 32.4/share
Gross profit 225.0/share = 23.68% return on investment.  8 days

Also sold CBA, SGB today & NAB yesterday in CFD account....returns on investment are mind boggling with such high leverage (97%)


----------



## rozella (8 November 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

It was a bit of a wasted exercise selling SGB & NAB yesterday as the rate announcement had little effect.  I managed to re-enter NAB on the close today.  Plenty of time for SGB.

Bought NAB today @ 4020.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1005.0/share
Exdiv 10th November, dividend 84.0/share 90% franked 32.4/share

Also re-entered NAB in cfd account.


----------



## hypnotic (8 November 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Yeah seems like the only bank that went down today was CBA.

Seemed like the market must have factored their buying already as the market probably had a relatively good idea that the rates were going to rise. *shrugs*.

ANZ looks very strong, when is that bull going to stop??

Good luck with the banks roz.. and thanks for the reply.


----------



## scsl (9 November 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				hypnotic said:
			
		

> Yeah seems like the only bank that went down today was CBA.
> 
> Seemed like the market must have factored their buying already as the market probably had a relatively good idea that the rates were going to rise. *shrugs*.
> 
> ...



IMO, I think ANZ is really overbought, but I have yet to go short because my last short was on NAB, and that didn't go very well. rozella, would you short any banks atm?


----------



## rozella (9 November 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I placed 2 orders for SGB yesterday @ 3325.0 as I would be out at open today.....both were filled at different times today....2 separate accounts.

Bought SGB today @ 3325.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 831.25/share
Exdiv 29th November, dividend 77.0/share fully franked 33.0/share

Bought SGB today @ 3325.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 831.25/share
Exdiv 29th November, dividend 77.0/share fully franked 33.0/share


----------



## rozella (9 November 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day scsl



> IMO, I think ANZ is really overbought, but I have yet to go short because my last short was on NAB, and that didn't go very well. rozella, would you short any banks atm?



I have not done any shorting for a few years as it does not fit my dividend trading strategy, but I agree, the banks are very pricey atm.

I always allow a drop on exdiv day of dividend + franking credit, & in the case of ANZ, this would be 69.0 + 29.57 = 98.57/share.  ANZ went exdiv today & is down 118.0 atm.  I just bought 1000 @ 2890.0 to ride the price back hopefully.  So I am still buying the banks.  I also just bought 2 parcels of SGB & also CBA & SGB in CFDs today......but I have my finger on the trigger.

All the banks are down except WBC & I have another order in that too in the CFD account.  MBL reports next Tuesday.....that will be an interesting one, but the dividend is usually very poor, but may be a trade between now & the report.

rozella


----------



## rozella (9 November 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered SGP today @ 770.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 231.0/unit
Estimated distribution announcement expected around 18th December.
exdist expected 21st December, last years dist was 20.5/unit, 21.98% franked 1.93/unit


----------



## robots (12 November 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

hello rozella,

love the report

do you see CFD's as an alternative to margin loan?

if one was starting, could they use CFD's for the dividend trading as opposed to margin loan?

being self-employed I get nowhere with the banks/margin loan providers

thankyou
robots


----------



## rozella (12 November 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day robots,

I am using both conventional marginlending & cfds with the dividend strategy & from my experience, marginlending is certainly much easier.

With cfds you need to have a good self imposed buffer, a tight stoploss & plenty of discipline.  If you can do that, it is a good start.  Cfds are a good product for disciplined traders & it is possible to do very well with them.  If you are not disciplined, most of your cash will be gone in no time.

If you do start with cfds, do it with the minimum deposit allowable, try with about 4 stocks keeping a good buffer, until you learn the mechanics in real time.  After about 3 to 6 months if you have learnt your lessons well, then maybe add some more to the pot.  Usually the minimum start with a provider is about $5000.

Being self-employed should be no problem with marginlenders, I have been self-employed almost all of my working life & did not have any problem.  

I prefer to use people like Leveraged Equities & BT Equities & I find both very good.


----------



## rozella (15 November 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought IPG today @ 231.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 69.30/unit
Distribution announcement expected about 15th December.
Ex-distribution expected 21st December
Last years distribution was 8.45/unit zero franked


----------



## rozella (17 November 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold CFX today @ 206.0
Bought 12th October @ 200.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 60.0/unit
Distribution estimate expected 15th December, exdist expected 21st December.
Distribution last year was 5.46/unit zero franked.
Gross profit 6.0/unit = 10.0% return on investment.  36 days.

I will place another buy order around the 200.0/202.0 on Monday & sit.  I was out all day & missed todays trading.....but happy with the results, although I missed placing a sell order on MCG.


----------



## rozella (21 November 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold IPG today @ 241.0
Bought 15th November @ 231.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 69.30/unit
Distribution announcement expected about 15th December.
Ex-distribution expected 21st December
Last years distribution was 8.45/unit zero franked
Gross profit 10.0/unit = 14.43% return on investment.  6 days


----------



## rozella (21 November 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold MCW today @ 208.0
Bought 26th October @ 200.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 70.0/share
Estimated distribution announcement expected around 18th December.
exdist expected 21st December, last years dist was 7.6/unit, zero franked
Gross profit 8.0/unit = 11.42% return on investment.  26 days


----------



## rozella (22 November 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold DRT today @ 170.5.....a bit early as usual, but as planned.
Bought 17th October @ 165.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 49.5/unit
Estimated distribution announcement expected 18th December.
exdist expected 21st December, last years dist was 5.45/unit, zero franked
Gross profit 5.5/unit = 11.11% return on investment.  36 days


----------



## rozella (22 November 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold SGP today @ 791.0
Bought 9th November @ 770.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 231.0/unit
Estimated distribution announcement expected around 18th December.
exdist expected 21st December, last years dist was 20.5/unit, 21.98% franked 1.93/unit
Gross profit 21.0/unit = 9.09% return on investment.  13 days


----------



## rozella (22 November 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold MCG today @ 644.0
Bought 25th October @ 624.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 218.4/unit
Distribution announcement expected around 19th December.
Exdistribution expected 21st December
Last years distribution was 19.5/unit, zero franked.
Gross profit 20.0/unit = 9.15% return on investment.  28 days


----------



## rozella (23 November 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold WBC today @ 2433.0......one of my oldest holdings.....it is not a good trade even though it has been held through 2 dividend periods.....interest eats up too much on these longer holdings with the dividend strategy & the cash would be utilised much better by selling earlier & moving on to a more lucrative deal.
Bought 4th May 2006 @ 2436.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 609.0/share
Exdiv 1st June, dividend 56.0/share, fully franked 24.0/share.
Exdiv 16th December, dividend 60.0/share, fully franked 25.71/share.
Gross profit 162.71/share = 26.72% return on investment, incl fc.  203 days
Interest = 90.43/share
Net profit = 72.28/share = 11.86% net return on investment.


----------



## rozella (23 November 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of SGB today @ 3362.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 840.5/share
Exdiv 29th November, dividend 77.0/share fully franked 33.0/share


----------



## rozella (24 November 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered IPG today @ 242.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 72.6/unit
Distribution announcement expected about 15th December.
Ex-distribution expected 21st December
Last years distribution was 8.45/unit zero franked


----------



## rozella (28 November 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered MCG today @ 626.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 219.1/unit
Distribution announcement expected around 19th December.
Exdistribution expected 21st December
Last years distribution was 19.5/unit, zero franked.


----------



## rozella (30 November 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered SGP today @ 781.0 with a amargin of 70%
Investment 234.3/unit
Estimated distribution announcement expected around 18th December.
exdist expected 21st December, last years dist was 20.5/unit, 21.98% franked 1.93/unit


----------



## rozella (5 December 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered DRT yesterday @ 168.5 with a margin of 70%
Investment 50.55/unit
Estimated distribution announcement expected 18th December.
exdist expected 21st December, last years dist was 5.45/unit, zero franked

Re-entered MCW yesterday @ 203.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 71.05/unit
Estimated distribution announcement expected around 18th December.
exdist expected 21st December, last years dist was 7.6/unit, zero franked


----------



## rozella (8 December 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold MCG today @ 646.0
Bought 28th November @ 626.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 219.1/unit
Distribution announcement expected around 19th December.
Exdistribution expected 21st December
Last years distribution was 19.5/unit, zero franked.
Gross profit 20.0/unit = 9.13% return on investment.  10 days.

Will try to re-enter around 626.0 next week.


----------



## rozella (13 December 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered MCG today @ 626.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 219.10/unit
Distribution announcement expected around 19th December.
Exdistribution expected 21st December
Last years distribution was 19.5/unit, zero franked.


----------



## rozella (14 December 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold MCW on the open today @ 212.0
Bought 5th December @ 203.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 71.05/unit
Estimated distribution announcement expected around 18th December.
exdist expected 21st December, last years dist was 7.6/unit, zero franked
Gross profit 9.0/unit = 12.67% return on investment.  9 days


----------



## rozella (15 December 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold SGP today @ 802.0
Bought 30th November @ 781.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 234.3/unit
Estimated distribution announcement expected around 18th December.
exdist expected 21st December, last years dist was 20.5/unit, 21.98% franked 1.93/unit
Gross profit 21.0/unit = 8.96% return on investment.


----------



## rozella (19 December 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold DRT today @ 175.0
Bought 4th December @ 168.5 with a margin of 70%
Investment 50.55/unit
Distribution announcement 18th December.
Exdist 21st December, distribution 5.60/unit, zero franked
Gross profit 6.5/unit = 12.86% return on investment.  15 days


----------



## rozella (20 December 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold IPG on the close today @ 240.0
Bought 24th November @ 242.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 72.6/unit
Distribution announcement 19th December.
Ex-distribution 21st December
Distribution 7.6/unit zero franked
Gross loss 2.0/unit = 2.75% loss on investment.  26 days

Sold CPA on the close today @ 142.5
Bought 30th October @ 143.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 42.9/unit
Distribution announcement 18th December.
Ex-distribution 21st December
Distribution 5.08/unit zero franked
Gross loss 0.5/unit = 1.16% loss on investment.  51 days

Sold MCG on the close today @ 634.0
Bought 13th December @ 626.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 219.10/unit
Distribution announcement 19th December.
Ex-distribution 21st December
Distribution 21.0/unit zero franked
Gross profit 8.0/unit = 3.65% return on investment.  7 days

Sold NAB today @ 4030.0
Bought 8th November @ 4020.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1005.0/share
Exdiv 10th November, dividend 84.0/share 90% franked 32.4/share
Gross profit 94.0/share = 9.35% return on investment, excl fc.  42 days

Bought DRT on the close today @ 176.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 105.30/unit
Distribution announcement 15th December.
Ex-distribution 21st December
Distribution 5.6/unit zero franked

Bought MIG on the close today @ 351.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 52.80/unit
Distribution announcement 15th December.
Ex-distribution 21st December
Distribution 10.0/unit franking TBA

Also bought something I have never ventured into yesterday....STW.....I am interested to see how it goes......low trading but there is always buyers & sellers jostling for postions all day.

Bought STW @ 5550.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 1665.0/unit
Distribution announcement 19th December.
Ex-distribution 21st December
Distribution 95.42/unit franking TBA


----------



## rozella (22 December 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought CBA today on the open @ 4850.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1212.50/share
Dividend announcement expected 14th February
Last years dividend was 94.0/share fully franked.

STW is looking sad atm.....was down 128.0 on the open but then a trade went through leaving it down 10.0/share.  I have placed a sell order 900 @ 5550.0.....hope to jag a sale in the next couple of weeks.

Merry Christmas all.


----------



## rozella (28 December 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold some STW yesterday @ 5550.0 & the balance today on the open @ 5554.0
Average sell was 5552.4
Bought 19th December @ 5550.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 1665.0/unit
Distribution announcement 19th December.
Ex-distribution 21st December
Distribution 95.42/unit franking TBA
Gross profit 97.82/unit = 5.875% return on investment, excl fc.  9 days


----------



## rozella (28 December 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold DRT today @ 176.0
Bought 20th December @ 176.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 105.30/unit
Distribution announcement 15th December.
Ex-distribution 21st December
Distribution 5.6/unit zero franked
Gross profit 5.6/unit = 5.318% return on investment.  8 days


----------



## rozella (29 December 2006)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold CBA today @ 4970.0
Bought 22nd December @ 4850.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1212.50/share
Dividend announcement expected 14th February
Last years dividend was 94.0/share fully franked.
Gross profit 120.0/share = 9.896% return on investment.  7 days


----------



## rozella (2 January 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered CBA today @ 4940.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1235.0/share
Dividend announcement expected 14th February
Last years dividend was 94.0/share fully franked.


----------



## rozella (3 January 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought WDC on the close today @ 2045.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 511.25/unit
Distribution announcement expected 2nd February
Exdistribution date expected 7th Ferbruary.
Last years distribution was 55.5/unit, 2.73% franking 1.75/unit


----------



## rozella (4 January 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of CBA today @ 4941.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1235.25/share
Dividend announcement expected 14th February
Exdiv expected 20th February
Last years dividend was 94.0/share fully franked.


----------



## rozella (5 January 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold MIG today @ 351.0
Bought 20th December @ 351.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 105.30/unit
Distribution announcement 15th December.
Ex-distribution 21st December
Distribution 10.0/unit franking TBA
Gross profit 10.0/unit = 9.5% return on investment, excl fc.  16 days


----------



## rozella (8 January 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought SGM today @ 1955.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 586.50/share
Dividend announcement expected around 2nd February
Exdiv expected around 27th March
Last years dividend was 45.0/share 47% franked 9.06/share


----------



## rozella (10 January 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought WAN today @ 1170.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 351.0/share
Dividend announcement expected 2nd February
Exdiv date expected 12th March
Last years dividend was  22.0/share fully franked 9.43/share


----------



## rozella (10 January 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought HIL on the close today @ 531.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 185.85/share
Dividend announcement expected around 7th February
Exdiv date expected 8th March
Last years dividend was 13.0/share fully franked 5.57/share.


----------



## rozella (11 January 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold WAN today @ 1200.0
Bought 10th January @ 1170.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 351.0/share
Dividend announcement expected 2nd February
Exdiv date expected 12th March
Last years dividend was 22.0/share fully franked 9.43/share
Gross profit 30.0/share = 8.547% return on investment.  1 day

Sold HIL today @ 544.7
Bought 10th January @ 531.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 185.85/share
Dividend announcement expected around 7th February
Exdiv date expected 8th March
Last years dividend was 13.0/share fully franked 5.57/share.
Gross profit 13.7/share = 7.37% return on investment.  1 day


----------



## rozella (15 January 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold WDC today @ 2109.0
Bought 3rd January @ 2045.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 511.25/unit
Distribution announcement expected 2nd February
Exdistribution date expected 7th February.
Last years distribution was 55.5/unit, 2.73% franking 1.75/unit
Gross profit 64.0/unit = 12.52% return on investment.  12 days


----------



## rozella (16 January 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered WDC today @ 2080.0 with a maargin of 75%
Investment 520.0/share
Distribution announcement expected 2nd February
Exdistribution date expected 7th February.
Last years distribution was 55.5/unit, 2.73% franking 1.75/unit


----------



## magiops2 (17 January 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

no posts recently besides yours rozella so just thought I might let u know your work is still being appreciated.  Thnx for the continuous updates =)


----------



## rozella (17 January 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day magiops2,

Yes it has been lonely for a while.


----------



## barnes (18 January 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thank you rozella for your great work.


----------



## TheAbyss (19 January 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella

Where do you find all of the upcoming companies to research dividend information?


----------



## TheAbyss (19 January 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sorry tobopther you Rozella however another question if that isok?

CDX Have a dividend declared of $1.18 and a share price of $2.22 at this time. 0% franked.  

Is this as good as it appears? Their announcment states taxation considerations are required.

Thanks Rozella


----------



## rozella (19 January 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day TheAbyss,

CDX has sold its last remaining substantive asset.  The directors are distributing the surplus cash to shareholders in the form of a dividend (118.0/share) & return of capital (107.96/share)

It seems to me that once exdiv & ex CR comes around, there won't be much left in the company as they have given it to the shareholders.

You should read CDX announcements & make up your own mind.....if you do not have a regular source, go to CDX announcements


----------



## TheAbyss (19 January 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

 Thanks Rozella. Highly informative thread.


----------



## rozella (23 January 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought WES on the open today @ 3900.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 975.0/share
Dividend announcement expected 15th February.
Exdiv expected 20th February
Last years dividend was 65.0/share fully franked 27.86/share.

Bought another parcel of WES today @ 3889.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 972.25/share
Dividend announcement expected 15th February.
Exdiv expected 20th February
Last years dividend was 65.0/share fully franked 27.86/share.


----------



## j4mesa (23 January 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,

I am newbie here.
Have done couple of div. trade.

I appreciate your posting here, though no much response from people.
Soon there will be a lot of comp goes ex div.......

I have a question here.
According to my history observation, for shares in bank such as CBA,SGB ,etc.......
If we are too late to get into long position (price is high already), I find out that if we short them using  CFD ,it is benefecial as they have 100% franking........

so on ex div day...they will drop more than their div ?
based on ur exp, would you agree with that theory ?   

Will keep an eye on this thread.........



Please do not take my post as financial advice,just a forum to exchange opinion.....


----------



## rozella (23 January 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day j4mesa



> I appreciate your posting here, though no much response from people.
> Soon there will be a lot of comp goes ex div.......



I am guessing at not much response because trading for dividends to most probably seems a slow grind, but it is not like that at all & is as much as I wish to handle as a full time trader.  I have never looked back since trading this way & for me it is quite profitable.

Yes, the reporting season will start next month & will be full-on then.



> so on ex div day...they will drop more than their div ?
> based on ur exp, would you agree with that theory ?



This will depend largly on market sentiment on the day they go exdiv....how other world markets show the lead etc.

With the large banks on a good market day for exdiv, they may almost recover in 1 or 2 days, but on a really down day they could drop the dividend + franking credit + some......I always allow for stocks to drop the div + fc because I must make allowances for the effect on margin loans, so some planning is involved as most of the time I take full advantage of available credit & am in the buffer zone more times than not.



> According to my history observation, for shares in bank such as CBA,SGB ,etc.......
> If we are too late to get into long position (price is high already), I find out that if we short them using CFD ,it is benefecial as they have 100% franking........



With shorting using CFDs, the provider will debit our account to the value of the dividend, so yes, if the stock drops more than the dividend, then we will win by that amount, however, this does not happen that often if your selections meet the required criteria unless this is your aim.

I also trade CFDs every day using only the top 20 stocks, however, I rarely find it necessary to short them.


----------



## j4mesa (23 January 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,

Thank you for your prompt reply.


----------



## rozella (23 January 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold one of my oldest holdings today WBC @ 2490.0
Bought 10th May 2006 @ 2472.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 618.0/share
Exdiv 1st June, dividend 56.0/share, fully franked 24.0/share.
Exdiv 16th November, dividend 60.0/share, fully franked 25.71/share.
Gross profit 183.71/share = 29.72% return on investment, incl fc.  258 days.
Interest eats up alot on these longer trades.....far better to keep them shorter periods & churn stocks.


----------



## rozella (24 January 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold SGM today @ 2015.0
Bought 8th January @ 1955.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 586.50/share
Dividend announcement expected around 2nd February
Exdiv expected around 27th March
Last years dividend was 45.0/share 47% franked 9.06/share
Gross profit 60.0/share = 10.23% return on investment.  16 days


----------



## rozella (24 January 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought GUD on the close today @ 835.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 292.25/share
Dividend announcement expected 30th January
Exdiv date expected 20th February
Last years dividend was 27.0/share fully franked 11.57/share


----------



## j4mesa (24 January 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

24 January 2007 :

CFD Trade - Dividend Trading :

Buy AWC  @ $ 6.78 for 3000 units

Target : Sell @ ??? not calculated yet....


----------



## rozella (25 January 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought TLSCA today @ 285.0 with a margin of 80%
Investment 57.0/share
Dividend announcement expected 15th February
Exdiv date expected 26th February
Last years dividend was 14.0/share fully franked 6.0/share


----------



## rozella (25 January 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold CBA today @ 5049.0
Bought 4th January @ 4941.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1235.25/share
Dividend announcement expected 14th February
Exdiv expected 20th February
Last years dividend was 94.0/share fully franked.
Gross profit 108.0/share = 8.74% return on investment.  21 days


----------



## rozella (25 January 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold WDC today @ 2205.0
Bought 16th January @ 2080.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 520.0/unit
Distribution announcement expected 2nd February
Exdistribution date expected 7th February.
Last years distribution was 55.5/unit, 2.73% franking 1.75/unit
Gross profit 125.0/unit = 24.04% return on investment.  9 days


----------



## rozella (29 January 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered CBA today @ 4991.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1247.75/share
Dividend announcement expected 14th February
Exdiv expected 20th February
Last years dividend was 94.0/share fully franked.


----------



## rozella (30 January 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold 3 parcels of SGB today @ 3350.0......first two were sold together.

Sold SGB today @ 3350.0
Bought 9th November @ 3325.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 831.25/share
Exdiv 29th November, dividend 77.0/share fully franked 33.0/share
Gross profit 135.0/share = 16.24% return on investment, incl fc. 82 days 

Sold SGB today @ 3350.0
Bought 23rd November @ 3362.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 840.5/share
Exdiv 29th November, dividend 77.0/share fully franked 33.0/share
Gross profit 98.0/share = 11.66% return on investment. incl fc. 68 days

Sold SGB today @ 3350.0
Bought 9th November @ 3325.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 831.25/share
Exdiv 29th November, dividend 77.0/share fully franked 33.0/share
Gross profit 135.0/share = 16.24% return on investment, incl fc. 82 days


----------



## rozella (1 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought SGM today @ 2140.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 642.0/share
Dividend announcement expected possibly tomorrow
Last years dividend was 45.0/share 47% franked 9.06/share

Bought WDC today @ 2228.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 557.0/share
Distribution announcement expected possibly tomorrow
Exdistribution date expected 7th February.
Last years distribution was 55.5/unit, 2.73% franking 1.75/unit

Bought WDC today @ 2226.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 556.5/share
Distribution announcement expected possibly tomorrow
Exdistribution date expected 7th February.
Last years distribution was 55.5/unit, 2.73% franking 1.75/unit


----------



## rozella (2 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of SGM today @ 2185.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 655.5/share
Dividend announcement expected possibly 5th February
Exdiv expected about 27th March
Last years dividend was 45.0/share 47% franked 9.06/share


----------



## j4mesa (2 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,

when you do dividend trading, do you actually find out a prospective company (ie company that is doing well on their current quarter ?) 

or 

do you just hunting on the company as long as they are giving out dividends ? 

Thank you........
I am aware that you make living from div. trading, was that enough to make you have a luxurius live ?


----------



## annalivia (2 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Q: What relevance does the dividend yield have in deciding what stocks to buy?

A: None. The best companies to invest in are those that have the ability to retain all of their profits to reinvest in the business at a high rate of return (ROE). Given the option of receiving a dividend or leaving it in the business to compound at say 20% per annum, the choice should be quite clear, unless of course you have the ability to do better; in which event, retaining the stock wouldn't make any sense. Conversely, you don't want a business to retain your profit share to reinvest at a lower rate of return than you could achieve elsewhere. In such event, not only are you better off by the company disbursing all profits as dividends, but you want out-period.

One measure of the economic viability of a business is the percentage of profits distributed as dividends. If the nature of the business means it has little opportunity to expand and grow, it has no use for retained profits and will, or should, pay out nearly all of its profits as dividends. A growing business is one that has the ability to expand by virtue of demand for its goods or services. Providing a high ROE is maintained, the lower the dividend the better the investment return.

al


----------



## rozella (3 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day j4mesa & annalivia,

We all have our own niche in the sharemarket & mine is to profit from cum-dividend stocks, it does not mean that my method is better than anyone elses, as we do best what we know best & as we specialise, we become better at our job.

My aim is to profit the dividend amount on every trade whether it is a trading profit or the dividend itself.  Sometimes this can be achieved a multiple of times prior to the exdiv date.

As of yesterday for this FY, my realised return on capital invested is 44.4% in 217 days after interest & brokerage.  Average holdings are 23.86 days but some trades do go over the 45 days.  Longer trades do not achieve the profit for me as interest eats into profit & wastes capital that could be working faster.  My working capital has been turned over 18.32 times this FY sofar.

I am not interested very much about the history of a stock & do not read any analyst or broker reports.  I only read applicable company reports.  The basis of my strategy is *The lure of the dividend gives a stock a reason to rise*



> Q: What relevance does the dividend yield have in deciding what stocks to buy?



First of all the stock must have good liquidity, then if with marginlending the dividend & franking credit shows a yield of 10% or greater for the coming payment, then it is a prospect.

Then after dividend announcement the report shows increased profit, increased dividend & a good outlook for the future, then the probability of a stock rise is above average.



> I am aware that you make living from div. trading, was that enough to make you have a luxurius live ?



It is my prime source of income & it is about planning the dividends, when & how much, to be able to draw a reasonable salary each month, then the rest does not matter whether it is trading profits or more dividends.

Dividend trading is not everyones "cup of tea" but has served me well over the last 8/9 years with very good returns. 

Cheers,


----------



## j4mesa (3 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> I am not interested very much about the history of a stock & do not read any analyst or broker reports.  I only read applicable company reports.





			
				rozella said:
			
		

> In my experience, when you start to read the company reports, that is when the price has gone up and it is "a bit" too late. Do you DYOR even before the company released their annual/quarterly result ?
> 
> The basis of my strategy is *The lure of the dividend gives a stock a reason to rise*




I totally agree with you on your strategy. I think the same way as well.

IMO, for stocks with 100% franking, usually they drop more than the div itself. From your experience, do they bounce back 2-3 weeks after ex.div? Because with my exp with WBC, after their ex div, it took them more than 2 month to recover from their previous high, which in turn actually making me losing money! 




			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Dividend trading is not everyones "cup of tea" but has served me well over the last 8/9 years with very good returns.




For me personally, recently I did better in dividend yield rather than the stock trading itself but I do not do all company for their div, only certain stocks that I think is good.


----------



## j4mesa (3 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Rozella,

Sorry for wrongly quoting you on previous post, just realised it when I read it by then it is too late too change


----------



## rozella (3 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day j4mesa,



> IMO, for stocks with 100% franking, usually they drop more than the div itself. From your experience, do they bounce back 2-3 weeks after ex.div? Because with my exp with WBC, after their ex div, it took them more than 2 month to recover from their previous high, which in turn actually making me losing money!



They don't always behave the same way each time, this is where you must make a decision whether it is better to sell before the price reaches your target sell & just be happy with an amount of a bit less than the dividend & move onto the next deal or wait longer.  The more times you can churn a dividend with the same capital, the more profitable you should be.


----------



## TheAbyss (5 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Rozella

Interested in your thoughts on GUD. They are ex Div on 19th Feb at 27c 100% franked. Would they measure up as an opportunity based on your guidelines?

I am trying to understand your processes. Thanks


----------



## rozella (5 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				TheAbyss said:
			
		

> Rozella
> 
> Interested in your thoughts on GUD. They are ex Div on 19th Feb at 27c 100% franked. Would they measure up as an opportunity based on your guidelines?
> 
> I am trying to understand your processes. Thanks



Well I am holding GUD, however, I should have sold when it climbed back to 833.0 the day after the report & moved onto another deal.  I bought at 835.0 on 24th Jan.  My intial stoploss was 810.0, then trailed to 819.0.....& today it has closed at 809.0

Profit down 26.44% & no increase in dividend.  It has a on-market share buyback program of up to 5% of issued capital over the next 12 months which may help, but this is for longer term holders than me.

With a stock like GUD which I have traded many times, I don't like to have a large holding (3% of my holdings max) so being a little under my stoploss it does not worry me & it appears to be starting to improve.

We will see how it performs from now to exdiv date.....I might bail out prior to exdiv as I don't want to be waiting months for it to return to my target sell price.

The old test for whether to hold on longer......would I buy it at todays price knowing what was in the report ?
If no, then I must sell now.
If yes, then why sell it.
It held up quite well today so I will hold a bit longer & see which way it jumps.

Cheers,


----------



## TheAbyss (5 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thanks Rozella. I might dip my feet for a while.


----------



## j4mesa (6 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> They don't always behave the same way each time, this is where you must make a decision whether it is better to sell before the price reaches your target sell & just be happy with an amount of a bit less than the dividend & move onto the next deal or wait longer.




Hi Rozella,

thank you for your information.....
can I ask you another question please ? 
how do you make your decision usually of whether to sell b4 ex-div or  wait till  
it come back to their sp b4 ex-div.

Just to share info with you, I usually make that decision by checking their chart history around ex-div time.

Thank you again


----------



## rozella (6 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day j4mesa,



> can I ask you another question please ?
> how do you make your decision usually of whether to sell b4 ex-div or wait till
> it come back to their sp b4 ex-div



I am aiming to achieve at least the dividend or an amount equal to the dividend, so if I am already on target with dividends to support my monthly salary, & the stock has risen an amount equal to the dividend, I may as well take the profits prior to exdiv & have my working capital back to do another deal.  This way the cycle is quicker & I am churning more "dividends" with the same capital.

With stocks like WDC & CBA, I have traded each in & out about 3 times this round, but they are in my plan to take the dividend this time.  WDC goes exdist tomorrow, so I won't be selling before then, however, CBA does not go exdiv until 20th Feb, so there is possibly another trade prior to then, but it depends on the market circumstances.

GUD is a different story, I will be selling prior to exdiv as I don't trust it.....after exdiv it could take ages to recover......but nothing surprises me in this business.


----------



## j4mesa (6 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thank you for sharing your information........


----------



## rozella (6 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold ANZ today @ 2985.0
Bought on 3rd November @ 2961.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 740.25/share
Reported 26th October, exdiv 9th November, dividend 69.0/share fully franked 29.57/share
Gross profit 122.57/share = 16.56% return on investment.  95 days (too long)

Bought WAN today @ 1326.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 397.80/share
Expected to report Friday 8th February
Expected exdiv date around 12th March
Last years dividend was 22.0/share fully franked 9.43/share


----------



## j4mesa (6 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

CFD : 

Sell AWC today @ 6.78  for 3000 units
div 12 c 


Buy WDC today @ 22.57 FOR 2000 units
est. div 52 c


----------



## rozella (7 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold TLSCA today @ 295.0
Bought 25th January @ 285.0 with a margin of 80%
Investment 57.0/share
Dividend announcement expected 15th February
Exdiv date expected 26th February
Last years dividend was 14.0/share fully franked 6.0/share
Gross profit 10.0/share = 17.54% return on investment.  13 days


----------



## 56gsa (7 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

rozella

thanks for a very informative thread

do you have any thoughts on my experiment:  see https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=119117#post119117   // Share option pricing in lead up to dividend


----------



## rozella (7 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				56gsa said:
			
		

> rozella
> 
> thanks for a very informative thread
> 
> do you have any thoughts on my experiment:  see https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=119117#post119117   // Share option pricing in lead up to dividend



Good work 56gsa, we all have our own niche strategies & so if it works consistantly for you then go for it.

rozella


----------



## j4mesa (7 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

At this time, 12 : 27 pm WDC is droppping only abit compare to their dividends....


----------



## rozella (7 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold 2 parcels of WDC today

Sold WDC today @ 2240.0
Bought 1st February @ 2228.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 557.0/share
Exdistribution date 7th February. (today)
Distribution was 52.0/unit, franking TBA
Gross profit 64.0/unit = 11.49% return on investment.  6 days

Sold WDC today @ 2240.0
Bought 1st February @ 2226.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 556.5/share
Exdistribution date 7th February. (today)
Distribution was 52.0/unit, franking TBA
Gross profit 66.0/unit = 11.86% return on investment.  6 days


----------



## rozella (7 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought SUN today @ 2184.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 546.0/share
Dividend announcement expected around 20th February
Exdiv expected 1st March
Last years dividend was 47.0/share fully franked 20.14/share.


----------



## rozella (7 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold CBA on the close @ 5128.0
Bought 29th January @ 4991.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1247.75/share
Dividend announcement expected 14th February
Exdiv expected 20th February
Last years dividend was 94.0/share fully franked.
Gross profit 137.0/share = 10.98% return on investment.  9 days


----------



## rozella (8 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered CBA today @ 5100.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1275.0/share
Dividend announcement expected 14th February
Exdiv expected 20th February
Last years dividend was 94.0/share fully franked 40.29/share.

Bought TAH today @ 1763.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 528.9/share
Dividend announcement expected 21st February
Exdiv expected 27th February
Last years dividend was 44.0/share fully franked 18.86/share.


----------



## rozella (8 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of CBA today @ 5085.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1271.25/share
Dividend announcement expected 14th February
Exdiv expected 20th February
Last years dividend was 94.0/share fully franked 40.29/share.

Sold WAN today @ 1360.0
Bought 6th February @ 1326.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 397.80/share
Expected to report Friday 8th February
Expected exdiv date around 12th March
Last years dividend was 22.0/share fully franked 9.43/share
Gross profit 34.0/share = 8.55% return on investment.  2 days


----------



## rozella (9 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered WAN prior to annoucement today @ 1332.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 399.6/share
Expected to report Friday 9th February
Expected exdiv date around 12th March
Last years dividend was 22.0/share fully franked 9.43/share


----------



## j4mesa (9 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold WDC @ 22.57 yesterday after ex div......of 52 cents


----------



## rozella (9 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				j4mesa said:
			
		

> Sold WDC @ 22.57 yesterday after ex div......of 52 cents



Nice trade j4mesa


----------



## j4mesa (9 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,

any idea of GFF next ex-div date ?
forecasted on 12 Feb 2007, up till now no reports out yet.
Also ring the company but no-one can even tell......maybe I did not get the right person

Thank you


----------



## rozella (9 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				j4mesa said:
			
		

> Hi Rozella,
> 
> any idea of GFF next ex-div date ?
> forecasted on 12 Feb 2007, up till now no reports out yet.
> ...



At this point I am only aware that the results are expected to be released on 27th February 2007

rozella


----------



## j4mesa (9 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thank you......


----------



## rozella (9 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold SGM today @ 2210.0
Bought 1st February @ 2140.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 642.0/share
Dividend announcement expected 20th February....not to sure.
Last years dividend was 45.0/share 47% franked 9.06/share
Gross profit 70.0/share = 10.90% return on investment.  8 days

Still have another parcel.


----------



## rozella (9 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold WAN today @ 1364.0
Bought today prior to annoucement @ 1332.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 399.6/share
Reported today
Exdiv date 12th March
Dividend 30.0/share fully franked 12.85/share
Gross profit 32.0/share = 8.01% return on investment.  same day


----------



## rozella (9 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought BEN today @ 1405.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 421.5/share
Report expected 12th February
Exdiv date expected 26th February
Last years dividend was 22.0/share fully franked 9.43/share


----------



## rozella (9 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold GUD on the close @ 863.0
Bought 24th January @ 835.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 292.25/share
Dividend announcement 29th January
Exdiv date 19th February
Dividend 27.0/share fully franked 11.57/share
Gross profit 28.0/share = 9.58% return on investment.  16 days


----------



## rozella (13 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered TLSCA on the close today @ 289.0 with a margin of 80%
Investment 57.80/share
Dividend announcement expected 15th February
Exdiv date expected 26th February
Last years dividend was 14.0/share fully franked 6.0/share


----------



## j4mesa (14 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Nice trade j4mesa




Thank you Rozella...

Today entered :

1. BKN :  CFD 4000 units @ 9.785 (average price) ex-div tomorrow 0.145 franking 100 % 
2. GUD :  CFD 3000 units @ 8.47 ex-div 19 Feb 0.27 franking 100 %

Since I am with CFD,I do not have any franking credits.....

Looking into TLSCA tomorrow , if I do have enough budget


----------



## rozella (14 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of CBA today @ 5160.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1290.0/share
Dividend announcement was today
Exdiv 19th February
Dividend was 107.0/share fully franked 45.85/share.

Bought IAG today @ 634.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 190.2/share
Dividend announcement expected 22nd February
Exdiv expected 8th March
Last years dividend was 13.5/share fully franked 5.79/share.


----------



## j4mesa (15 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Re-entered TLSCA on the close today @ 289.0 with a margin of 80%
> Investment 57.80/share
> Dividend announcement expected 15th February
> Exdiv date expected 26th February
> Last years dividend was 14.0/share fully franked 6.0/share




Hmm.....good on you Rozella.....


----------



## rozella (15 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold TLSCA today @ 306.0
Bought 13th February @ 289.0 with a margin of 80%
Investment 57.80/share
Dividend announcement today 15th February
Exdiv date 26th February
Dividend 14.0/share fully franked 6.0/share
Gross profit 17.0/share = 29.41% return on investment.  2 days


----------



## rozella (15 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold BEN today @ 1440.0 (it galloped to 1448.0 later)
Bought 9th February @ 1405.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 421.5/share
Report 12th February
Exdiv date 26th February
Dividend 24.0/share fully franked 10.29/share
Gross profit 35.0/share = 8.30% return on investment.  6 days

Bought SGM today @ 2227.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 668.10/share
Dividend announcement expected 20th February....not to sure.
Last years dividend was 45.0/share 47% franked 9.06/share


----------



## rozella (17 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Lightened my load of CBA yesterday as it exceeded my comfort zone of 15% of portfolio.

Sold parcel of CBA yesterday on the close @ 5120.0
Bought 8th February @ 5085.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1271.25/share
Dividend announcement 14th February
Exdiv 19th February
Dividend 107.0/share fully franked 45.86/share.
Gross profit 35.0/share = 2.75% return on investment.  8 days

Bought AMP yesterday @ 1066.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 266.50/share
Dividend announcement 15th February
Exdiv 9th March
Dividend 21.0/share 85% franked 7.65/share

Bought WOW yesterday @ 2514.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 628.50/share
Dividend announcement expected 27th February
Exdiv expected 27th March
Last years dividend 28.0/share fully franked 12.0/share


----------



## UraniumLover (17 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Richo's pick the top 10 dividend shares per share price ratio and stick with it for a year to minimise tax as it out performs the asx index every time. people like warren buffet love this strategy . the probelm is finding them. can someOne out there come up with such a list ?


----------



## michael_selway (17 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Lightened my load of CBA yesterday as it exceeded my comfort zone of 15% of portfolio.
> 
> Sold parcel of CBA yesterday on the close @ 5120.0
> Bought 8th February @ 5085.0 with a margin of 75%
> ...




dude this only works in a bull market

thx

MS


----------



## rozella (18 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Michael,



> dude this only works in a bull market
> 
> thx
> 
> MS



I think your wording should say that it works easier in a bull market.  i.e trading can be more discretionary in a bull market & get away with it.

Trading has been my full time job since 1998 & I have traded this strategy for most of it.

In a bearish market my turnover is much greater.  The dividends are always there on major stocks, however, one must be prepared to take some trading losses in order to gain dividends & have the turnover accordingly.  As a trader, trading profit/loss can be offset against dividend/franking credit income.

2001 to 2003 was bearish & this is where I learnt a tremendous amount of discipline & formalised my trading rules.

Billy the pig can turn a profit in this market as mistakes can be easily recovered.

I am about 102% in the market atm (in buffers most of the time) & I will act accordingly if a severe correction arises.


----------



## j4mesa (19 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> I am about 102% in the market atm (in buffers most of the time)




What do you mean by that?


----------



## rozella (19 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				j4mesa said:
			
		

> What do you mean by that?



Most marginlenders will give 10% buffer these days.

e.g. if you had $100,000 as your working capital, then used a margin loan with the average LVR being 70% & you utilised the lot, you would have $333,333.33 in the market.  This would be utilising 100% of your available credit.

Although the marginlender will not extend the credit further to buy more stocks, they have a further leeway of 10% (buffer) before they would give a margin call.  i.e. If the stocks dropped $33,333.33 then you would be utilising 110% of the available credit.


----------



## rozella (19 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold 2 parcels of CBA today @ 5087.0 to finance some more trades.  Still holding 1 parcel. 

Sold CBA today @ 5087.0
Bought 2nd January @ 4940.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1235.0/share
Dividend announcement 14th February
Exdiv today 19th February
Dividend 107.0/share fully franked 45.86/share.  
Gross profit 299.86/share = 24.28% return on investment, incl fc.  48 days

Sold CBA today @ 5087.0
Bought 14th February @ 5160.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1290.0/share
Dividend announcement 14th February
Exdiv today 19th February
Dividend 107.0/share fully franked 45.86/share.  
Gross profit 34.0/share = 2.63% return on investment, excl fc.  5 days


----------



## rozella (20 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold a parcel of WES today @ 3782.0
Bought 23rd January @ 3889.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 972.25/share
Dividend announcement 15th February.
Exdiv 21st February
Dividend 85.0/share fully franked 36.43/share.
Gross loss 107.0/share = 11.01% loss on investment.  28 days

Sold SUN today on the close @ 2283.0
Bought 7th February @ 2184.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 546.0/share
Dividend announcement 20th February (today)
Exdiv 1st March
Dividend was 52.0/share fully franked 22.28/share
Gross profit 99.0/share = 18.13% return on investment.  13 days


----------



## rozella (21 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought WAN on the open today @ 1464.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 439.20/share
Exdiv 9th March
Dividend 30.0/share fully franked 12.86/share


----------



## rozella (21 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold WAN on the close @ 1530.0
Bought on the open today @ 1464.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 439.20/share
Exdiv 9th March
Dividend 30.0/share fully franked 12.86/share
Gross profit 66.0/share = 15.02% return on investment.  Same day.

Bought SUN on the close @ 2265.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 566.25/share 
Exdiv date 1st March
Dividend 52.0/share fully franked 22.29/share.


----------



## rozella (22 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold CBA today @ 5102.0
Bought 8th February @ 5100.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1275.0/share
Dividend announcement 14th February
Exdiv 19th February
Dividend 107.0/share fully franked 45.86/share.
Gross profit 109.00/share = 8.55% return on investment, excl fc.  14 days

Sold SGM today on the close @ 2285.0
Bought 15th February @ 2227.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 668.10/share
Dividend announcement 20th February
Exdiv 21st March
Dividend 60.0/share 57% franked 14.66/share
Gross profit 58.0/share = 8.68% return on investment.  7 days

Bought ZFX today @ 1700.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 510.0/share
Dividend announcement 22nd February (today)
Exdiv 30th March
Dividend 70.0/share fully franked 30.0/share


----------



## rozella (24 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold off my last parcel of WES yesterday on the close @ 3660.0 (better later than never)
Bought 23rd January @ 3889.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 972.25/share
Dividend announcement 15th February.
Exdiv 21st February
Dividend 85.0/share fully franked 36.43/share.
Gross loss 144.0/share = 14.81% loss on investment, fc excl. 31 days


----------



## rozella (26 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold TAH today on the close @ 1689.0
Bought 8th February @ 1763.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 528.9/share
Dividend announcement 21st February
Exdiv 27th February (tomorrow)
Dividend 47.0/share fully franked 20.14/share.
Gross loss 74.0/share = 13.99% loss on investment.  18 days

Sold ZFX today on the close @ 1770.0
Bought 22nd February @ 1700.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 510.0/share
Dividend announcement 22nd February 
Exdiv 30th March
Dividend 70.0/share fully franked 30.0/share
Gross profit 70.0/share = 13.73% return on investment.  4 days

Bought another parcel of AMP @ 1070.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 267.50/share
Exdiv 9th March
Dividend 21.0/share 85% franked 7.65/share

Bought another parcel of SUN today @ 2314.0 (should be more patient) with a margin of 75%
Investment 578.50/share
Exdiv 1st March
Dividend 52.0/share fully franked


----------



## rozella (27 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought ABC today @ 335.05 with a margin of 65%
Investment 117.267/share
Exdiv 7th March
Dividend 7.5/share fully franked 3.21/share
Special dividend 6.0/share fully franked 2.57/share

Bought ADB today @ 1385.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 415.50/share
Exdiv 8th March
Dividend 29.0/share fully franked 12.43/share


----------



## rozella (27 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought WAN today @ 1550.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 465.0/share
Exdiv 9th March
Dividend 30.0/share fully franked 12.86/share


----------



## Bodhi2500 (27 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi,

Rosella, you wrote:

"if you trade cum-dividend stocks as I am all the time, it becomes part of every day trading to make sure that all details are registered & up to date."

What exactly are the 'details' you are talking about here? I recently enquired about registering some details with Link market Services. They seemed to have no idea what i was talking about and said because the trade was broker sponsered there is nothing I can register apart from personal details, tax file number and banking details. Are these the 'details' you are talking about?

=======
Bodhi


----------



## rozella (27 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Yes that is all it is, simple as it may be, but if you leave it upto the broker to register your TFN, then you take the risk that it is not done by record date & therefore 48.5% withholding tax may be deducted from your dividend, especially if you purchase close to the exdiv date (day before)

There is 4 business days between exdiv date & record date & 3 days for settlement of a purchase which really only gives 1 full day to record the details if buying the day before exdiv date.  That is why leaving it to the broker is risky.  Of course you can always claim it back at tax time but who needs the hassle & you don't have all the dividend in the meantime.


----------



## rozella (28 February 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold WOW on the close today @ 2720.0
Bought 16th February @ 2514.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 628.50/share
Dividend announcement expected 27th February
Exdiv expected 22nd March
Dividend 35.0/share fully franked 15.0/share
Gross profit 206.0/share = 32.77% return on investment. 12 days


----------



## rozella (1 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

The market is not exactly flying however....

Re-entered WOW today @ 2710.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 677.50/share
Dividend announcement 27th February
Exdiv 22nd March
Dividend 35.0/share fully franked 15.0/share

Re-entered ZFX on the open @ 1688.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 506.40/share
Dividend announcement 22nd February 
Exdiv 30th March
Dividend 70.0/share fully franked 30.0/share


----------



## rozella (1 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold SUN today @ 2099.0
Bought 21st February @ 2265.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 566.25/share 
Exdiv date 1st March
Dividend 52.0/share fully franked 22.29/share.
Gross loss 114.0/share = 20.13 loss on investment. excl fc.  8 days

Sold SUN today @ 2100.0
Bought 26th February @ 2314.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 578.50/share
Exdiv 1st March
Dividend 52.0/share fully franked
Gross loss 162.0/share = 28.00% loss on investment, exl fc.  3 days

Bought GFF on the close @ 229.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 68.7/share
Exdiv 2nd March (tomorrow)
Dividend 6.0/share 40% franked 1.03/share


----------



## j4mesa (2 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,

How are you n your trading recently ?
I think everyone is not doing too well........

Just a quick question, I would like to ask if we buy share b4 ex-div and sell on  the record date. So do we still get the dividends ?


----------



## rozella (2 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				j4mesa said:
			
		

> Hi Rozella,
> 
> How are you n your trading recently ?
> I think everyone is not doing too well........?



Wednesday was my largest hit, however, there is not much one can do when it already is down on open.....only to stop it going lower & use some discretion.  Yesterday & today are not so bad....I am nicely up today atm.



> Just a quick question, I would like to ask if we buy share b4 ex-div and sell on  the record date. So do we still get the dividends



You can buy as late as the close the day before exdiv day & sell as early as the open on exdiv day & still be entitled to the dividend.  The contract dates control who is entitled to the dividend.  The record date is 4 business days after the exdiv date so you have no worries.


----------



## j4mesa (2 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Contract date , when is it ? is it the same as the ex-div date ?

Record date is for the registry to record who is entitled for div. If we only need to own b4 ex-div and can sell on ex-div, so, why do they need to bother to have record date ?

Thank you in advance Roz..


----------



## rozella (2 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day j4mesa,



> Contract date , when is it ? is it the same as the ex-div date ?



Contract date is your buy/sell contract notes



> Record date is for the registry to record who is entitled for div. If we only need to own b4 ex-div and can sell on ex-div, so, why do they need to bother to have record date ?



Even though you are entitled to the dividend, the registry needs to know how you want your dividend paid i.e. cheque or direct deposit, & they also need your TFN.  If you don't supply your TFN then they can deduct 48.5% withholding tax from the dividend.  Of course you can claim it at tax time but who needs the hassle & you are not making use of the full dividend.


----------



## rozella (2 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought MMA today on the close @ 112.0 (I have not traded this one before so went easy on it with 13000, the only trade on the close) with a margin of 75%
Investment 28.0/share
Exdiv 5th March (Monday)
Dividend 4.0/share fully franked 1.71/share

Better day today finishing about square, but very volatile....plus to minus in large licks all day.


----------



## rozella (5 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought MRE today @ 666.0 (the devils number) with a margin of 60%
Investment 266.40/share
Exdiv date 6th March (tomorrow)
Dividend 45.0/share fully franked 19.29/share


----------



## j4mesa (5 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> G'day j4mesa,
> 
> 
> Contract date is your buy/sell contract notes
> ...




Thanks alot Roz....now it makes more sense to me as of why we are having record date............

Say we sell b4 record date...... is there any way we can inform the registry regarding the TFN n etc2?


----------



## rozella (6 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day j4mesa,



> Say we sell b4 record date...... is there any way we can inform the registry regarding the TFN n etc2?



Yes, you can usually do this online with the major registries.
computershare
Link Market Services 

If you are using a dividend trading strategy, it is wise to always register your TFN & method of dividend payment yourself rather than leave it to the broker on each trade as the broker may not register before record date, especially if you have purchased just prior to exdiv date.  Record date is 4 business days after exdiv date & also the registry won't know about your transaction until T3, so in this case it is best to do it on settlement date.

You can apply online to become a member of the above registries so you can do this online.

If it is only the odd stock you need to register, than you can download the necessary forms from their websites, then fax or post the details.

It sounds a lot of hassle, but if you don't supply the TFN, you will have 48.5% withholding tax deducted from the dividend.  After a while it just becomes part of everyday trading.


----------



## rozella (7 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold ABC 6th March @ 333.0
Bought 27th February @ 335.05 with a margin of 65%
Investment 117.267/share
Exdiv 7th March
Dividend 7.5/share fully franked 3.21/share
Special dividend 6.0/share fully franked 2.57/share
Gross loss 2.05/share = 1.75% loss on investment.  7 days

Sold ABC 7th March on the open @ 333.0
Bought 5th March @ 328.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 114.80/share
Exdiv 7th March
Dividend 7.5/share fully franked 3.21/share
Special dividend 6.0/share fully franked 2.57/share
Gross profit 18.5/share = 16.11% return on investment, excl fc.  2 days

Bought WAN today on the open today @ 1500.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 450.0/share
Exdiv 9th March
Dividend 30.0/share fully franked 12.86/share


----------



## rozella (7 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold GFF today on the close @ 229.0
Bought 1st March @ 229.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 68.7/share
Exdiv 2nd March 
Dividend 6.0/share 40% franked 1.03/share
Gross profit 6.0/share = 8.73% return on investment, excl fc.  6 days


----------



## rozella (10 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of ZFX yesterday @ 1627.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 488.10/share
Dividend announcement 22nd February 
Exdiv 30th March
Dividend 70.0/share fully franked 30.0/share


----------



## j4mesa (10 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> G'day j4mesa,
> 
> 
> Yes, you can usually do this online with the major registries.
> ...





Thank you Roz !!


----------



## rozella (12 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold a parcel of AMP today @ 1030.0
Bought 8th March @ 1028.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 257.0/share
Exdiv 9th March
Dividend 21.0/share 85% franked 7.65/share
Gross profit 23.0/share = 8.95% return on investment. excl fc.  4 days


----------



## rozella (12 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold a parcel of ADB today @ 1330.0
Bought 5th March @ 1330.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 399.0/share
Exdiv 8th March
Dividend 29.0/share fully franked 12.43/share
Gross profit 29.0/share = 7.27% return on investment, excl fc.  7 days

Sold a parcel of WAN today on the close @ 1525.0
Bought 7th March on the open @ 1500.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 450.0/share
Exdiv 9th March
Dividend 30.0/share fully franked 12.86/share
Gross profit 55.0/share = 12.22% return on investment, excl fc.  5 days.

Some nice rises today.


----------



## rozella (13 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of ZFX today @ 1631.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 489.30/share
Exdiv 30th March
Dividend 70.0/share fully franked 30.0/share

Bought another parcel of WOW today @ 2794.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 698.50/share
Exdiv 22nd March
Dividend 35.0/share fully franked 15.0/share

Bought ALZ today @ 222.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 66.60/unit 
Exdist expected around 27th March
Last years distribution was 4.0/unit, franking credit TBA


----------



## rozella (14 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of SGM today @ 2280.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 684.0/share
Exdiv 21st March
Dividend 60.0/share 57% franked 14.66/share

Bought MOF today @ 156.0/unit with a margin of 70%
Investment 46.80/unit
Exdist expected 26th March
Last years distribution was 2.82/unit


----------



## TheAbyss (15 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



			
				rozella said:
			
		

> Bought another parcel of SGM today @ 2280.0 with a margin of 70%
> Investment 684.0/share
> Exdiv 21st March
> Dividend 60.0/share 57% franked 14.66/share
> ...




MOF has a very nice looking chart Roz. Higher highers and higher lows.


----------



## rozella (15 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day TheAbyss,

Yes, MOF is one of the early LPT's to report in this group.....but they all only pay a quarterly distribution, so they don't have quite the price surge as does the others that report in June & December.

I am only after the trading profit & will probably sell before the distribution.


----------



## rozella (16 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought MGR today @ 547.0/unit with a margin of 70%
Investment 164.10/unit
exdist expected 26th March
Last years distribution was 7.75/unit


----------



## rozella (19 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold ADB today @ 1360.0
Bought 7th March @ 1343.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 402.90/share
Exdiv 8th March
Dividend 29.0/share fully franked 12.43/share
Gross profit 46.0/share = 11.42% return on investment, excl fc. 12 days

Bought another parcel of SGM on the open today @ 2421.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 726.30/share
Exdiv 21st March
Dividend 60.0/share 57% franked 14.66/share


----------



## rozella (21 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold MRE today @ 670.0
Bought 5th March @ 666.0 (the devils number) with a margin of 60%
Investment 266.40/share
Exdiv date 6th March 
Dividend 45.0/share fully franked 19.29/share
Gross profit 49.0/share = 18.39% return on investment, excl fc.  16 days


----------



## rozella (22 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of MGQ yesterday @ 702.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 210.6/unit
Exdistribution 26th March
Distribution 7.875/unit zero franked


----------



## rozella (22 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold MGR today @ 557.0
Bought 16th March @ 547.0/unit with a margin of 70%
Investment 164.10/unit
exdist 26th March
Distribution 7.975/unit 20% franked 0.68/unit
Gross profit 10.0/unit = 6.093% return on investment.  6 days


----------



## rozella (22 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold 2 parcels of MGQ together today.

Sold MGQ today @ 729.0
Bought 20th March @ 727.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 218.10/unit
Exdistribution 26th March
Distribution 7.875/unit zero franked
Gross profit 2.0/unit = 0.917% return on investment.  2 days

Sold MGQ today @ 729.0
Bought 21st March @ 702.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 210.6/unit
Exdistribution 26th March
Distribution 7.875/unit zero franked
Gross profit 27.0/unit = 12.82% return on investment.  1 day


----------



## rozella (23 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Took some skinny deals on the quarterly LPTs this week 3 wins & 1 loss.  MGQ & MGR were wins & have already been posted & were the lions share of profits & also the largest parcels.

Sold  MOF today @ 159.0/unit
Bought 14th March @ 156.0/unit with a margin of 70%
Investment 46.80/unit
Exdist 26th March
Distribution 2.80/unit
Gross Profit 3.0/unit = 6.41% return on investment.  9 days

Sold ALZ today @ 219.0/unit
Bought 13th March @ 222.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 66.60/unit 
Exdist 26th March
Distribution 4.0/unit, franking credit TBA
Gross loss 3.0/unit = 4.50% loss on investment.  10 days

Bought another parcel of ZFX today @ 1603.0 with a margin 70%
Investment 480.90/share
Exdiv 30th March
Dividend 70.0/share fully franked 30.0/share.


----------



## Ferret (24 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,

Thanks for your posts.  I enjoy following this thread.

Can you say what the typical value is of the parcels you trade?  You seem to work on a high volume of trades trying to get just a bit of profit from each.  Do you size the trades to the minimise the percentage spent on brokerage?  With my nab account the brokerage is 0.11% but the minimum brokerage is $29.95, so I need to trade parcels of more than $27,000 to get down to 0.11%.

Also, what interest rate do you pay on your margin loans?  I only try trading occaisionally and often find that if the price doesn't move up soon after I enter, I'm behind just because of the interest on my 7.37% line of credit.

Sorry if you've already answered these questions.  Its a long thread now and I haven't gone back through it all.

Ferret


----------



## rozella (24 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Ferret,

My main broker account is AOT & their brokerage is $33/trade, but you can have 5 trades (say buys) with the same stock on the same day for 1 contract note brokerage of $33....same with the sells.  So you can buy the same stock say $30k/parcel on the same day 5 times = $150k for $33 brokerage, or trade in & out all day 5 times for a buy contract of $33 & a sell contract of $33  Most webiress platform providers are the same (I think)

My parcel size varies quite a bit depending on the quality & liquidity of the stock, anything from $20k to $200K (usually the $200k would be in multiple parcels) e.g. big banks would be at the high end & some of the smaller LPTs at the lower end.  MGQ was $40k, MGR $33k, yet ALZ & MOF were both $28k

My margin loans vary from 8.65% to 9.15% but I don't find that a great issue, although I should probably renegotiate.

I use a spreadsheet open all day livened up with a DDE link which includes dividends, interest & brokerage for each stock, so I can monitor profit or loss all the time.....with a changing total daily P/L at the bottom......this really helps so that you don't lose sight of interest costs & how this affects the bottom line.


----------



## Ferret (24 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thanks Rozella.

That gives me a good insight into what you are doing.  

I don't have any plans to get into full time trading myself, but your information would point me in the right direction if I ever did. 

Good luck with it!

Ferret


----------



## rozella (26 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold a parcel of SGM today @ 2390.0
Bought 20th February @ 2265.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 679.50/share
Dividend announcement 20th February
Exdiv 21st March
Dividend 60.0/share 57% franked 14.66/share
Gross profit 185.0/share = 27.22% return on investment. 34 days


----------



## rozella (27 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold another parcel of SGM today @ 2412.0 (1 to go after this)
Bought 14th March @ 2280.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 684.0/share
Exdiv 21st March
Dividend 60.0/share 57% franked 14.66/share
Gross profit 192.0/share = 28.07% return on investment, excl fc. 13 days.


----------



## Nicks (27 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

This is an interesting question.

Obviously there is a connection. If it pays a good dividend yield then this should be reflected in the SP.

One would then expect all Share Prices to reflect the same yield but they dont, due to many other factors, eg risk, potential, market position, over buying, speculation, jumping on the bandwagon, under realisation of potential.

There are a plethora of stocks at the moment of which the Share Price is largely reflected on hype and not value. These are the ones to be careful with. Money can be made quick (and most of us have at some stage with these) and can be lost quick (again most of us have at some stage).

The real gift though is to be able to identify those that fit in the under realised category, for you will get consistent excellent return for your money and then no doubt the Share Price eventually has to catch up to this. Consistency is part of the key. One I believe falls in this category is *GTP*. Look at its yield!

Strategic Potential is another type to look out for. Those that have a high chance of producing excellent reutrns in the future, though have not yet and therefore are discounted until they are proven. Anyone can wait until they are proven, but if yo are good at picking the strategic potential early you can gain. I feel *AVO* fits into this category (gold reserves vs gold price vs cost of extracting vs market value = undervalued).


----------



## rozella (28 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought DJS today @ 467.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 163.45/share
Exdiv 29th March (tomorrow)
Dividend 9.0/share fully franked 3.86/share


----------



## rozella (29 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold a parcel of ZFX today prior to exdiv to balance my holdings @ 1652.0
Bought 9th March @ 1627.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 488.10/share
Dividend announcement 22nd February 
Exdiv 30th March
Dividend 70.0/share fully franked 30.0/share
Gross profit 25.0/share = 5.12% return on investment.

Bought DRT on the close today @ 171.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 51.30/unit
Announcement expected around 20th June
Exdistribution expected 25th June
Last years distribution was 5.55/unit


----------



## UraniumLover (29 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



rozella said:


> Sold a parcel of ZFX today prior to exdiv to balance my holdings @ 1652.0
> Bought 9th March @ 1627.0 with a margin of 70%
> Investment 488.10/share
> Dividend announcement 22nd February
> ...



Hi Rozella,
If you sell on ex-dividend date do you still get dividend payment?
I have ZFX shares which go ex-dividend on 30 Mar which is tomorrow and was curious.


----------



## rozella (29 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Yes, UraniumLover, you can sell as early as the open tomorrow & be entitled to the dividend.

rozella


----------



## rozella (30 March 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I have had a sell order in for WAN since exdiv @ 1555.0, it rose to 1550.0 this morning & I stepped outside to stretch my legs just for a few minutes & it goes to 1570.0....but its hard to pick the top.

Sold WAN today @ 1555.0
Bought 27th February @ 1550.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 465.0/share
Exdiv 9th March
Dividend 30.0/share fully franked 12.86/share
Gross profit 35.0/share = 7.52% return on investment, excl fc.  31 days


----------



## rozella (2 April 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought CGJ on the close today @ 1611.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 402.75/share
Exdiv 16th April
Dividend 19.5/share fully franked 8.36/share


----------



## rozella (3 April 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought SGN today @ 312.0 today with a margin of 65%
Investment 109.20/share
Exdiv 30th April
Dividend 9.9/share fully franked 4.24/share


----------



## rozella (4 April 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold a parcel of WOW today @ 2755.0
Bought 1st March @ 2710.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 677.50/share
Dividend announcement 27th February
Exdiv 22nd March
Dividend 35.0/share fully franked 15.0/share
Gross profit 80.0/share = 11.81% return on investment, excl fc.  34 days

Sold DRT today @ 177.0
Bought 29th March on the close @ 171.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 51.30/unit
Announcement expected around 20th June
Exdistribution expected 25th June
Last years distribution was 5.55/unit
Gross profit 6.0/unit = 11.70% return on investment.  6 days

Hopefully will re-enter DRT around the 171.0 again


----------



## rozella (4 April 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

What a day !!! Just figuring out what I bought & sold....my CFD account hiked up quite a bit too.

I have a buy order in for IPG @ 237.0 which has been there for a few days now in expectation of a rate hike which did not happen.  Also have orders in for CPA, GSA & bought part of MCW @ 208.0 today.

I sold part of DJS today as well, so is a bit messy.

Sold my last 2 parcels of SGM today together, which shot up in a hurry, I was watching so many others that I almost missed it.

Sold SGM on the close @ 2403.0
Bought 2nd February @ 2185.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 655.5/share
Exdiv 21st March
Dividend was 60.0/share 57% franked 14.65/share
Gross profit 278.0/share = 42.41% return on investment, excl fc.  61 days

Sold SGM on the close @ 2403.0
Bought 19th March @ 2421.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 726.30/share
Exdiv 21st March
Dividend was 60.0/share 57% franked 14.66/share
Gross profit 42.0/share = 5.78% return on investment, excl fc.  16 days

rozella


----------



## rozella (5 April 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Just back from golf to see that I have sold CGJ in both my margin & CFD accounts.

Sold CGJ today @ 1705.0
Bought 2nd April on the close @ 1611.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 402.75/share
Exdiv 16th April
Dividend 19.5/share fully franked 8.36/share
Gross profit 94.0/share = 23.34% return on investment.  3 days

The CFDs were better as I bought for 1555.0


----------



## rozella (10 April 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold AMP today @ 1074.0
Bought 26th February @ 1070.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 267.50/share
Exdiv 9th March
Dividend 21.0/share 85% franked 7.65/share
Gross profit 25.0/share = 9.34% return on investment excl fc.  43 days


----------



## rozella (10 April 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I am in the cycle of selling a few stocks as they reach my target sells, so that they will fund the bank & LPT buys & am very close to sells on quite a few atm.

Sold most of a parcel of ZFX today on the close @ 1609.0 (the balance I will sell with another parcel later)
Bought 23rd March @ 1603.0 with a margin 70%
Investment 480.90/share
Exdiv 30th March
Dividend 70.0/share fully franked 30.0/share.
Gross profit 76.0/share = 15.80% return on investment excl fc.  18 days


----------



## ozambersand (10 April 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella
have been following this column with interest for some time but am just a newbie (as you can tell by my post total!) - could you explain a bit about the maths in the following:



> Sold most of a parcel of ZFX today on the close @ 1609.0 (the balance I will sell with another parcel later)
> Bought 23rd March @ 1603.0 with a margin 70%
> Investment 480.90/share
> Exdiv 30th March
> ...




I can only get your percentage return to work if you use the buy price for the ZFX as $4.8090. Are you dealing in Instalment warrants or shares?


----------



## rozella (10 April 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day ozambersand,

Your maths are right as the $4.8090 is the investment.

The calculation is based on marginlending.  I am borrowing 70% of the purchase price of 1603.0/share, so my investment is 480.90/share being the remaining 30%.

So the return on investment is 76.0 (profit) divided by 480.90 (the investment) = 0.158 or 15.80%

I am not interested in the increase between buy & sell prices so much, only the percentage that my own cash increases & I try to turn over the same cash as many times as possible in the shortest possible time frame.

Congrats on your 1st post.

Cheers,


----------



## rozella (11 April 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold balance of DJS on the open today @ 470.0 averaging the parcel @ 468.7
Bought 28th March @ 467.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 163.45/share
Exdiv 29th March 
Dividend 9.0/share fully franked 3.86/share
Gross profit 10.7/share = 6.55% return on investment, excl fc. 14 days

Forgot to delete the balance of ZFX order sold on close yesterday, so sold on open today @ 1616.0 (7 cents more)


----------



## ozambersand (11 April 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thanks for the reply Rozella.

I am curious as to whether you have considered using Installment warrants rather than margin lending.

Have you ever done any comparisons on the advantages and disadvantages of each method?


----------



## rozella (12 April 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day ozambersand,

I find marginlending more flexible.  I traded installment warrants quite a while ago but prefer marginlending.

The ASX promote warrants all the time.

There are many that prefer warrants, but they are not for me unless it is for my super account.

rozella


----------



## rozella (13 April 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought JST yesterday @ 445.0 with a margin of 60%
Investment 178.0/share
Exdiv 7th May
Dividend 9.5/share fully franked 4.07/share

Bought GPT today @ 504.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 151.2/unit
Announcement expected late April
Exdist last year was 8th May
Distribution last year was 6.70/unit zero franked.

Sold WOW today @ 2820.0
Bought 13th March @ 2794.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 698.50/share
Exdiv 22nd March
Dividend 35.0/share fully franked 15.0/share
Gross profit 61.0/share = 8.73% return on investment, excl fc.  31 days


----------



## rozella (13 April 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought LNN today @ 915.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 274.5/share
Exdiv expected about 29th May
Last years dividend was 19.0/share


----------



## rozella (16 April 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold SGN today @ 334.0
Bought 3rd April @ 312.0 today with a margin of 65%
Investment 109.20/share
Exdiv 30th April
Dividend 9.9/share fully franked 4.24/share
Gross profit 22.0/share = 20.14% return on investment.  13 days


----------



## rozella (17 April 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered SGN today @ 325.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 113.75/share
Exdiv 30th April
Dividend 9.9/share fully franked 4.24/share


----------



## rozella (18 April 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold GPT today @ 514.0
Bought 13th April @ 504.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 151.2/unit
Announcement expected late April
Exdist last year was 8th May
Distribution last year was 6.70/unit zero franked.
Gross profit 10.0/unit = 6.61% return on investment.  5 days

Back in the que to buy @ 504.0


----------



## rozella (18 April 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold JST today @ 459.0
Bought 13th April @ 445.0 with a margin of 60%
Investment 178.0/share
Exdiv 7th May
Dividend 9.5/share fully franked 4.07/share
Gross profit 14.0/share = 7.86% return on investment.  5 days


----------



## rozella (19 April 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought back into GPT today while I was at golf this morning @ 504.0.....of course it continued falling to 494.0.....that is the penalty of enjoying oneself. Margin 70%
Investment 151.2/unit
Announcement expected late April
Exdist last year was 8th May
Distribution last year was 6.70/unit zero franked.

Bought SGN @ 324.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 113.4/share
Exdiv 30th April
Dividend 9.9/share fully franked 4.24/share
Looks like it might fall a bit more now.


----------



## rozella (19 April 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought ANZ today @ 3095.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 773.75/share
Dividend announcement expected 26th April
Exdiv expected 14th May
Last years dividend was 56.0/share fully franked 24.0/share


----------



## rozella (20 April 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought CFX today @ 228.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 68.4/unit
Distribution announcement expected about 21st June
Exdist expected 25th June
Last years dist was 5.64/unit zero franked

Buying earlier than usual so may have a few trades before exdist.


----------



## rozella (23 April 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought JST again today @ 445.0 with a margin of 60%
Investment 178.0/share
Exdiv 7th May
Dividend 9.5/share fully franked 4.07/share

Bought SGB today @ 3635.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 908.75/share
Dividend announcement expected 1st May
Exdiv expected 13th June
Last years dividend was 74.0/share fully franked 31.71/share

Bought WBC today @ 2709.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 677.25/share
Dividend announcement expected 3rd May
Exdiv expected 17th May
Last years dividend was 56.0/share fully franked 24.0/share


----------



## rozella (26 April 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold a parcel of ZFX today @ 1652.0
Bought 13th March @ 1631.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 489.30/share
Exdiv 30th March
Dividend 70.0/share fully franked 30.0/share
Gross profit 91.0/share = 18.60% return on investment.  44 days

Bought another parcel of ANZ today @ 3095.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 773.75/share
Announced today.  
Exdiv 14th May
Dividend 62.0/share fully franked 26.57/share


----------



## flinders (26 April 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

hi there,  been watching your post re your particular way of trading/investments.re ZFX curious to know why you sold out just b4 the 45 days ? with regards franking .credit.


----------



## rozella (26 April 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day flinders,

I have been asked basically the same question on another forum & here is my answer.



> The answer is partly mathematical, ZFX has a LVR of 70% & ANZ is 75%. We are comparing 30 cents definite gain with ZFX against a possible 47 cents rise with ANZ in the next 2 trading days plus the leadup to the dividend plus the dividend.
> 
> My experiences tell me to take the profit now on ZFX before it drops again in the short term & use it to fund the ANZ purchase. I still have another ZFX parcel I bought @ 1688.0
> 
> ...


----------



## rozella (2 May 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold LNN today @ 942.0
Bought 13th April @ 915.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 274.5/share
Exdiv expected about 29th May
Last years dividend was 19.0/share
Gross profit 27.0/share = 9.83% return on investment.  19 days


----------



## rozella (2 May 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold my last parcel of ZFX today on the close @ 1697.0
Bought 1st March on the open @ 1688.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 506.40/share
Dividend announcement 22nd February 
Exdiv 30th March
Dividend 70.0/share fully franked 30.0/share
Gross profit 109.0/share = 21.52% return on investment.  62 days

Bought ENV today @ 123.0/unit with a margin of 65%
Investment 43.05/unit
Exdist date 7th May
Distribution 3.8/unit zero franked


----------



## rozella (3 May 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought WBC today on the close @ 2720.0 witha margin of 75%
Investment 680.0/share
Profit announcement today
Exdiv 17th May
Dividend 63.0/share fully franked 27.0/share


----------



## rozella (4 May 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought LLN today @ 920.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 230.0/share
Exdiv expected about 29th May
Last years dividend was 19.0/share fully franked 8.14/share


----------



## rozella (7 May 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

My last post should read LNN not LLN

Bought another parcel of LNN today @ 916.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 229.0/share
Exdiv expected about 29th May
Last years dividend was 19.0/share fully franked 8.14/share


----------



## rozella (7 May 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought SGP today @ 858.0 with a margin of 80%
Investment 171.6/unit
Distribution announcement expected 21st June
Exdist expected 25th June
Last years dist was 20.9/unit 19.65% franked 1.87/unit


----------



## robots (7 May 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

hello,

been watching cpa?

fairly good the last couple of weeks, any idea whats driving this?

or has just been lagging in the property sector

thankyou

robots


----------



## rozella (7 May 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day robots,

The LPT sector has been outperforming the rest for about a decade.  Next month most of the banks & LPTs go exdiv so many are taking positions atm.

The LPTs that pay 6 monthly of course rise in the leadup more than the quarterly payers & they were the ones today that mostly took a leap.

CER 3.7%
CFX 0.4%
CNP 2.6%
CPA 2.7%
DRT 2.5%
MCW -0.5%
SGP 0.9%

There is good trading in LPTs if you can stay in synch.  WDC is 3 times the market cap of the next 3 & it won't go exdist until August.


----------



## rozella (9 May 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold GPT today @ 506.0
Bought 19th April @ 504.0 with a margin of 70% (now 80%)
Investment 151.2/unit (now 100.8/unit)
Exdist 3rd May
Distribution 7.0/unit zero franked.
Gross profit 9.0/unit = 8.93% return on investment based on new margin.  20 days


----------



## rozella (9 May 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold CFX today @ 235.0
Bought 20th April @ 228.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 68.4/unit
Distribution announcement expected about 21st June
Exdist expected 25th June
Last years dist was 5.64/unit zero franked
Gross profit 7.0/unit = 10.23% return on investment.  19 days

Will re-enter on a drop


----------



## ozambersand (9 May 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella, been reading some of the back posts on this thread and have a couple of questions:

1. Have you ever analysed the profits you make just trading the upturn before the dividend and the profit made from the actual dividend (and franking credit). What would be the proportion of each in your portfolio?

2. Looking at your choice of stocks to deal in in 2005 and 2006, there are some similarities but other differences, do you alter the ones you choose on dividend or whether you think the stock is underpriced at the time?

3. Have you ever looked at trading the upturn after the dividend? (ie for those with big dividends and franking credits buy at the bottom after the dividend and get some recovery?

4. What do you do in July when there aren't any dividends to play with?


----------



## Buffettology (9 May 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



ozambersand said:


> Hi Rozella, been reading some of the back posts on this thread and have a couple of questions:
> 
> 1. Have you ever analysed the profits you make just trading the upturn before the dividend and the profit made from the actual dividend (and franking credit). What would be the proportion of each in your portfolio?
> 
> ...




Good questions, I was wondering the same.....?


----------



## ozambersand (9 May 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

And a couple of others things are confusing me (not difficult)  

1. On your website,the ATO ruling includes in part:


> Days on which you have 30% or less of the ordinary financial risks of loss and opportunities for gain from owning the shares cannot be counted in determining whether you hold the shares for the required period.




Does this ONLY relate to the holding of put warrants at the same time you own shares? (I gather they look at cumulative deltas, so that you can't "insure" your shares with warrants because if you do, they are not "at risk".)

For example could the buying and selling shares in the run up to the dividend or on the bounce back afterwards (but not through) also fall into this category of affecting the "risk" of the parcel of shares attracting the dividend?

2. How does the "last in, first out rule" affect your ability to claim franking credits when you do a number of purchases and sales in the lead up?

3. Is it correct that once you have broken the 45 day rule with one parcel of shares in a tax year and can't count the franking credit on that dividend, all your different companies' dividends are affected? (Assuming you have >$5000 in franking credits)


----------



## rozella (10 May 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Ozambersand & Buffettology,

I will answer what I can now as I am off to golf at 6:20am & will answer the rest about midday.



> 1. Have you ever analysed the profits you make just trading the upturn before the dividend and the profit made from the actual dividend (and franking credit). What would be the proportion of each in your portfolio?



This FY atm, dividends & franking credits are 57.04% of total profit after interest & brokerage.  So trading profit is 42.96% of my total profit.

It has been a good year & profit ytd is 88.01% on capital at the beginning of this FY after interest & brokerage.



> 2. Looking at your choice of stocks to deal in in 2005 and 2006, there are some similarities but other differences, do you alter the ones you choose on dividend or whether you think the stock is underpriced at the time?



My selections are firstly mathematically based.  i.e. if they have a yield for the proposed payment of 10% or greater after marginlending, then they are a prospect & are worth watching.  Sometimes I might take a more skinny deal such as GPT recently, but you will notice that I traded it twice with the last time for the dividend.  The price must be relative to the dividend, so a lot of the time the same stocks keep appearing year after year.

Sorry have to go....will continue later.


----------



## rozella (10 May 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Should have stayed & traded....my golf was terrible.



> 3. Have you ever looked at trading the upturn after the dividend? (ie for those with big dividends and franking credits buy at the bottom after the dividend and get some recovery?



Yes, this is what I call section 4 of my strategy, but the market has been so good lately that I have opted for the other sections as they are more lucrative.



> 4. What do you do in July when there aren't any dividends to play with?



There are always some stocks going exdividend, & July is a good buying time for those stocks going exdiv in August.  Also I am looking for a sell on those banks & LPTs that went exdiv in June....always plenty to do.



> On your website,the ATO ruling includes in part:
> 
> Quote:
> Days on which you have 30% or less of the ordinary financial risks of loss and opportunities for gain from owning the shares cannot be counted in determining whether you hold the shares for the required period.
> ...



You void franking credits if you take out the risk by shorting, hedging warrants etc.  If you do this you take away too much profit when a simple stoploss can do the job.  I have never needed to worry about this, but I think it is a bit of a grey area. 



> How does the "last in, first out rule" affect your ability to claim franking credits when you do a number of purchases and sales in the lead up?



I rarely receive franking credits because my average trade is 20.62 days, my personal total franking credits exceed $5000 so I have no exemption & also my company, as any company is not entitled to excemptions, so therefore franking credits can only be gained for trades that comply with the 45 day holding rule.  So the last in first out rule does not mean much to me.



> Is it correct that once you have broken the 45 day rule with one parcel of shares in a tax year and can't count the franking credit on that dividend, all your different companies' dividends are affected? (Assuming you have >$5000 in franking credits



Once your total franking credits (from all stocks together) exceed $5000 in any FY, you will forfeit all the franking credits for stocks traded under the 45 day rule (you lose your exemption) & can only claim for those trades that comply with the rule which is 45 days clear of the buy & sell days.

Cheers


----------



## rozella (10 May 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought NAB on the open today @ 4335.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1083.75/share
Reported today
Exdiv 1st June
Dividend 87.0/share 90% franked

Sold SGP today @ 885.0
Bought 7th May @ 858.0 with a margin of 80%
Investment 171.6/unit
Distribution announcement expected 21st June
Exdist expected 25th June
Last years dist was 20.9/unit 19.65% franked 1.87/unit
Gross profit 27.0/unit = 15.73% return on investment.  3 days

SGP went on to 895.0 but that is the penalty of playing golf instead of watching.


----------



## rozella (10 May 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought ANZ today @ 3070.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 767.5/share
Exdiv 14th May
Dividend 62.0/share fully franked 26.57/share


----------



## ozambersand (10 May 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thanks for answering my queries Rozella. Sorry to hear the golf was bad. 

Maybe I should have played golf! Instead, I angsted all day about whether or not to sell my Zinifex warrants!!!!!

In the end I sold some. 

My question about hedging is because I bought a parcel just before they went ex-dividend, hence they were pretty high. I was worried when they went down so low afterwards that they may not regain the buy price before the warrant ran out, so I bought more when they were low and brought my average down a lot.

In the end, selling today I made 31% on my average price plus the dividend on the ones I bought pre-dividend, so I am happy. Mind you they'll probably go higher tomorrow and I'll be kicking myself!

This year, I don't have to worry about exceeding the $5000 franking credit quota, but I was wondering whether buying extra afterwards would affect my eligibility. Does that qualify as "hedging?"

I must admit I am not too sure abut the exact meaning of the terms "hedging" and "shorting" as I have heard both used in different scenarios so am a bit confused.


----------



## rozella (10 May 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day ozambersand,



> Hedging
> The use of almost opposite direction securities, instruments, or futures contracts as a method of attempting to reduce market risk. A perfect hedge is one that eliminates the prospects of any future gains or losses.



I think this is what the ATO means.

Buying more stocks does not jeopardise your entitlement to franking credits because of risk, before or after exdividend day if that is what you mean, as you still have risk of the price dropping. 



> In the end, selling today I made 31% on my average price plus the dividend on the ones I bought pre-dividend, so I am happy. Mind you they'll probably go higher tomorrow and I'll be kicking myself!



Thats great.  Maybe they will go higher & maybe they won't, but you made the decision at the time, so thats that....you can always re-enter if you were wrong or move onto the next deal, depending on your strategy.


----------



## rozella (11 May 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold some dead wood today

Sold MMA today @ 102.5
Bought 2nd March on the close @ 112.0 (I have not traded this one before so went easy on it with 13000, the only trade on the close) with a margin of 75%
Investment 28.0/share
Exdiv 5th March (Monday)
Dividend 4.0/share fully franked 1.71/share
Gross loss 3.79/share = 13.53% loss on investment, incl fc. 70 days

Funds are better off in a LPT


----------



## rozella (14 May 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered SGP on the open today @ 873.0 with a margin of 80%
Investment 174.6/unit
Distribution announcement expected 21st June
Exdist expected 25th June
Last years dist was 20.9/unit 19.65% franked 1.87/unit


----------



## rozella (16 May 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold SGP today @ 896.0
Bought 14th May @ 873.0 with a margin of 80%
Investment 174.6/unit
Distribution announcement expected 21st June
Exdist expected 25th June
Last years dist was 20.9/unit 19.65% franked 1.87/unit
Gross profit 23.0/unit = 13.17% return on investment.  2 days

I will re-enter on a low day if opportunity arises


----------



## rozella (16 May 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought 2 separate parcels of WBC today.

Bought WBC @ 2749.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 687.25/share
Exdiv 17th May (tomorrow)
Dividend 63.0/share fully franked 27.0/share

Bought WBC @ 2749.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 687.25/share
Exdiv 17th May (tomorrow)
Dividend 63.0/share fully franked 27.0/share


----------



## rozella (18 May 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered SGP today @ 875.0 with a margin of 80%
Investment 175.0/unit
Distribution announcement expected 21st June
Exdist expected 25th June
Last years dist was 20.9/unit 19.65% franked 1.87/unit


----------



## rozella (24 May 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought DRT today @ 182.5 with a margin of 75%
Investment 45.625/share
Announcement expected around 20th June
Exdistribution expected 25th June
Last years distribution was 5.55/unit


----------



## rozella (31 May 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold DRT today @ 194.0
Bought 24th May @ 182.5 with a margin of 75%
Investment 45.625/unit
Announcement expected around 20th June
Exdistribution expected 25th June
Last years distribution was 5.55/unit
Gross profit 11.5/unit = 25.21% return on investment.

I will be looking for another re-entry on a low day


----------



## j4mesa (31 May 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Don,

how was ur div trading going so far....

Has not gone into div trade for quite awhile.
Will now be looking into...

Missed LNN yesterday at its low......
no more caps


----------



## rozella (31 May 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



j4mesa said:


> Hi Don,
> 
> how was ur div trading going so far....
> 
> ...



G'day j4mesa,

I don't quite understand all your shorthand jargon, but yes, my dividend trading is travelling as per the normal plan, although I have mixed in CFDs as well on the high rollers (don't post those trades)

I am trying to get set with the LPTs for this round, but they are steaming ahead of me, still, there is plenty of time yet.

Its been one of my better years & my dividend margin trading has produced around 90% return on capital for the year after interest, brokerage & dividends.....usually 30% to 60% for most years....this is for realised trades.


----------



## j4mesa (31 May 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



rozella said:


> G'day j4mesa,
> 
> I don't quite understand all your shorthand jargon, but yes, my dividend trading is travelling as per the normal plan, although I have mixed in CFDs as well on the high rollers (don't post those trades)
> 
> ...




- My apology for my bad english 
- High rollers, do you mean high earnings ?
- LPT : Listed Property Trust ???? What is that for towards the dividend trading
- 90% is very good !!! congrats........

I think I should be more discipline on dividend trading.........all the best Don


----------



## rozella (1 June 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day j4mesa,



> - My apology for my bad english
> - High rollers, do you mean high earnings ?
> - LPT : Listed Property Trust ???? What is that for towards the dividend trading



Looks like I am the same....sorry.

The high rollers, I mean S&P/ASX 20
LPT is Listed Property Trust

The LPT sector has stocks that pay a distribution quarterly or half yearly....generally it is the half yearly distributions that help to drive up the price. Here is a list of the ones I usually trade.....but you will need to make your own decisions.

None of these have given their estimated distributions yet, however, they will all go exdist on 25th June....their announcements will be only a few days before this.

SGP,CNP,DRT,CFX,IPG,MCW,CPA,VPG,CSF,TSO & CER

The last time I checked, they are in order of capitalisation, but a lot happens in this sector. On the 25th June there will be about 70 LPTs go exdistribution, but the above are the majors. WDC goes ex in August & February.

Cheers,


----------



## j4mesa (1 June 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Now everything seems to be connecting altogether.......
Thanks Don......


----------



## dano065 (2 June 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi,
Even though I have been looking at this site for a while, this is only my 2nd thread. I hope this doesn't sound like 2 silly questions. I have been looking at a few stocks latley around the dividend end date. They seem to have all dropped as the the stock goes dividend- I think I understand why...but, is it a possible strategy to short a stock while it goes ex-dividend, to take advantage as the stock goes down from paying the share holders, is there any other major risk involved?

Also, is there a time limit on how long you need to hold stocks to take advandage of company dividend pay outs, do you have to hold the stock a certain amount of time to be intitled to dividends, or is the money you need to make it worth while not worth the risk?
Thanks


----------



## rozella (3 June 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day dao065,



> ...but, is it a possible strategy to short a stock while it goes ex-dividend, to take advantage as the stock goes down from paying the share holders, is there any other major risk involved?



Yes you are right that the stock usually drops the dividend amount, however, when shorting a stock the system works in reverse, & the shorter pays the dividend.  The easiest way to short a stock is with CFDs & when holding a position over exdiv day, the dividend amount is deducted from your account....so it is not that simple.....I wish it was, it would almost be stealing.



> Also, is there a time limit on how long you need to hold stocks to take advandage of company dividend pay outs, do you have to hold the stock a certain amount of time to be intitled to dividends, or is the money you need to make it worth while not worth the risk?



You can buy on the close the day before exdiv & sell on the open on exdiv day to be entitled to the dividend.  It is the franking credit part that must comply with the 45 day rule & individuals have an exemption from this to trade under 45 days providing that their total franking credits for the year do not exceed $5000.  $5001 & you forfeit all the franking credits that don't comply with the 45 day rule & can only claim those over the 45 days clear of the buy & sell days.


----------



## rozella (5 June 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold 2 parcels of LNN yesterday 

Sold LNN yesterday @ 920.0
Bought 4th May @ 920.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 230.0/share
Exdiv 4th June
Dividend 19.0/share fully franked 8.14/share
Gross profit 19.0/share = 8.26% return on investment.  31 days

Sold LNN yesterday @ 916.0
Bought 7th May @ 916.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 230.0/share
Exdiv 4th June
Dividend 19.0/share fully franked 8.14/share
Gross profit 19.0/share = 8.26% return on investment.  28 days


----------



## ozambersand (5 June 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Lion Nathan hardly dipped at all going ex-dividend, you could have bought it on Friday and sold it on Monday and even made a slight profit if you timed it right... And got the dividend!

Pity they aren't all like that!!!! 

Rozella, do you find the cheaper stocks that don't pay a big dividend in cash terms but do when you look at yield, actually hold up better through the dividend?

CSR is another case in mind. They paid 9c and share price is only 6 cents lower at close.

I bought Westpac and NABS and they currently SUCK! (I'm waiting for the 47 days though so am not panicking ......yet!)


----------



## rozella (5 June 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day ozambersand,



> Rozella, do you find the cheaper stocks that don't pay a big dividend in cash terms but do when you look at yield, actually hold up better through the dividend?



I don't think there is much of a pattern as a lot depends on the market on exdiv day.  Yesterday was a 56 pointer so there was a good probability that LNN would fare okay.  I knew I would be away from the monitor all day, so I placed the orders at 7:30am knowing that the DOW shrugged off China's drop & it paid off.

The LPT's can sometimes return to your target price on exdist day, so I always place a sell order early prior to open......a quick turnover is sweet.



> I bought Westpac and NABS and they currently SUCK! (I'm waiting for the 47 days though so am not panicking ......yet!)



Sometimes there is only a small window of opportunity to take a sell at a good price with the banks, so you must do your calcs if you are marginlending, as sometimes it costs more than the franking credit to wait the distance either with interest or a drop in price or both.

e.g. WBC has a 27.0/share franking credit & it dropped 14.0 cents today.
NAB has a 33.56/share franking credit & it dropped 34.0 cents today.


----------



## ozambersand (6 June 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thanks for that advice, Rozella. I suppose I am a bit paranoid about having to pay tax! I will have to look at the big picture though and see if holding it for shorter periods justifies it, particularly if the money could be better spent elsewhere.

I don't have to worry about lending rates as I am still using instalment warrants. I am hesitant about margin lending. (My portfolio is small and I am not sure I have the capital base to qualify anyway)

The main drawback I am finding with the warrants is that it restricts what you can get involved in to certain companies (the bigger ones) and then the gearing can make a big difference to whether or not the dividend becomes worthwhile. Doing research, I have found enough warrants to get between 9% to 16% over a 12 month period, so that's OK.

The one big advantage I have is that the issuer has to buy them back (at the price as set out by their matrix) so you always have a buyer. Then you just have to hope that the underlying market behaves.

This works well when the market jumps suddenly in one direction with a trade that brings the corresponding buy/sell offer of the issuer's matrix into line (as long as their price reacts quickly enough) and if you are sitting there you usually* automatically get traded.

Using margin lending, you may have shares in the market at that same price that don't go as yu are too far down the queue, but the warrant has to go (providing the parcel on offer is lower than they are offering at the time). As I'm "small beer" really I usually manage to offload them OK.

*The "usually" is another story. ABNAmro withdrew their market once when the price was getting close (but they got rapped over the knuckles by the ASX when I complained and quickly put it back on).

Long term I wonder whether or not this rule abut "requiring to make a market at all times" will be viable for the issuers and I would not be surprised if it gets modified. If it does, I will have to review whether I stay trading this way.

Do you think the ability to be in and out with dividend plays is guaranteed to continue or will companies get jack of it?


----------



## rozella (6 June 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day ozambersand,

I used to do some installment warrants, however, I find marginlending more comforting & flexible....but we do best what we know best.  If you specialise with warrants & are successful, then keep doing it.



> Do you think the ability to be in and out with dividend plays is guaranteed to continue or will companies get jack of it?



I think dividend trading is becoming stronger.  Shares are changing hands more often but still the same amount of shares & the prices are increasing...why would they become concerned ?.....I don't think there is any problem with this....the brokers would also be happy.


----------



## rozella (6 June 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought SPN yesterday on the close @ 153.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 45.9/share
Exdiv 6th June (today)
Dividend 5.635/share 9% franked 0.217/share

Bought MIG on the open today @ 372.0 with a margin of 80%
Investment 74.4/share zero franked ?
Announcement expected 15th June
Exdiv expected 25th June
Last years dividend was 11.0/share zero franked.


----------



## rozella (7 June 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of MCW on the open today @ 220.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 55.0/unit
Distribution announcement expected 20th June
Exdistribution expected 25th June
Last years dist was 7.8/unit zero franked.


----------



## ozambersand (10 June 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I have a question about selling shares after they go ex-dividend. 

I had read that if you sold the day they went ex-dividend then you were still entitled to the dividend as long as you had bought them at least the day beforehand.

However, I have also read that:


> Books close
> When a company declares a dividend, in addition to the amount per share, it also declares a books closing date (the record date). This means that all shareholders who are on the company's share register at that date will receive the dividend.
> But in order to be on the share register at that date, investors need to have bought the shares at least three business days earlier. It's all to do with what's known as T+3 settlement. When investors buy shares through their broker, the moment the trade is executed the investor is the economic owner of the stock and gains, or loses, from movements in its price.
> But the actual day the trade is settled - when money is exchanged and the stock transferred from seller to buyer - doesn't occur until three business days after the trade is executed.
> This gives the people whose job it is to execute settlement a chance to iron out any problems or disputes before settlement day. So, in order to hold stock on the books closing date, and therefore receive the dividend, you need to have bought it three business days earlier. _Intelligent Investor_



What happens if you sell on ex-dividend date and the settlement of the trade is done before the record date? Do you lose your entitlement to the dividend?

Who sets the ex-dividend date, is it the ASX doing the calculations or the company? 

If it is the company, what is there to stop them making the date longer than the T+3 and catching people out that way?
Take Lion Nathan for example. The ASX has its ex-dividend date as 4th June and the record date as the 8th June (which is actually T + 4) and the settlement went through on the 3rd. Does that mean I have missed out on the dividend???? 
What happens also if the "people whose job it is to execute settlement " are extra efficient and iron it out earlier than the three days. Does that mean that even if you calculated R-3 for selling, you may still miss out?

I know that to be safe you could keep it for longer, but the price often goes down right until the record date and if I was happy with the return on my buy price I would like to get out ASAP especially if I wanted to get into something else.

Has anyone ever been caught by selling it too early in this way?


----------



## rozella (10 June 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day ozambersand,

You can buy as late as the close the day before exdiv date, & sell on the open on exdiv date & be entitled to the dividend.  The contracts for buy & sell determine who the owner of the shares are.  The owner of the shares at prior to open on exdiv date is entitled to the dividend, so don't let anyone tell you any different.

Exdividend date is 4 business days prior to record date.  From the buy contract date, settlement is in 3 business days.  The registry does not know that you own the stock until settlement, so if you buy the day before exdividend, then you have 1 day to register your TFN & method of payment of the dividend.  If for some reason you do not register by record date, you are still entitled to the dividend (as you are the owner) however, the registry will deduct 48.5% withholding tax from your dividend amount & give it to Johnny. (you can claim back at tax time, but who needs the extra hassle)

If you are going to trade a dividend strategy, then it is important to do the registering yourself by going onto the registry websites (it is free) & become a member & receive a password etc.  Then you can do your registering yourself online in most cases.  Don't leave it to the broker to register for you if you are cutting it fine with time.

It probably seems complicated the 1st time, but when you specialise in trading this way, it becomes part of every day trading.

If you are doing a lot of these, it is best to set up a spreadsheet, so you don't miss any.....anyway it is easier to keep track of your dividends & projections.

If you are stuck with the registry, let me know & I will see if I can help....this is Mrs rozella's job.


----------



## ozambersand (10 June 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I hope you're right Rozella. I will soon know if my Lion Nathan dividend doesn't come through!

My main worry is the selling bit, as I said, I sold my shares after open on ex-div date and they were settled before the record date.

I will take your advice on the registry.

I do have a spreadsheet set up.

I see the ASX defines ex-div date as:
ex-dividend


> Shares sold ex-dividend entitle the seller to retain the current dividend. Shares are usually quoted ex-dividend four business days before company’s book close




A lot of companies don't even mention the ex-dividend date, just the record date. Which is strange as theoretically whoever bought my shares would still have had the T+3 before record date (4 business days). So who defines the ex-dividend date, the company or the ASX?

I noticed on checking that a couple of companies had an even longer gap this year. IAG and QBE had ex-div dates of 7/3 and record dates of 14/3 which is 5 full business dates after the ex-dividend date (T+5). 

I imagine a lot of the situation is a hangover from days when everything wasn't so instant with computers. Now, they could probably have a pretty accurate figure in minutes once they are all registered on the computer.

Hence my concern.

On a related but different note. What happens if you sell and buy the same quantity of shares on the same day. Would the registry notice it and change? ie if I own some shares and have all the details registered but sell them on the day before ex-div date and buy them again a few hours later. Would the registry details have been changed in the meantime? ie do I still have to ensure my tfn etc are current at the time of ex-div?


----------



## rozella (10 June 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



> I hope you're right Rozella. I will soon know if my Lion Nathan dividend doesn't come through!



Obviously on LNN you are banking on the broker doing the registering....you did not say when you bought.  If you owned it prior to exdiv date & held until exdiv date then sold....you will receive the dividend, however, to receive the full dividend will depend whether your broker registered you in time.  It is easy enough to check by going to http://www.computershare.com.au
If you are not a member, you should register.  In the left hand menu, click on TFN/ABN.  Under that in the menu, there are bank details.  This part is okay as they will send you a cheque, but you can opt for direct deposit.



> I noticed on checking that a couple of companies had an even longer gap this year. IAG and QBE had ex-div dates of 7/3 and record dates of 14/3 which is 5 full business dates after the ex-dividend date (T+5).



There is a reason for this.  12th March was a non-business day (although the market was open) due to Labour Day in Vic (banks not open etc)



> On a related but different note. What happens if you sell and buy the same quantity of shares on the same day. Would the registry notice it and change? ie if I own some shares and have all the details registered but sell them on the day before ex-div date and buy them again a few hours later. Would the registry details have been changed in the meantime? ie do I still have to ensure my tfn etc are current at the time of ex-div?



As the details come through, the registry adds or subtracts quantity.  It is always worth checking online whether your details are up to date....rarely have I had a problem

You will find that when you sell the shares, your details may stay with the registry for many months with a nil quantity balance....so as I said before, the 1st thing to do is check online to see if your details are there before sending through more details.

Sometimes I will buy/sell a stock 3 or 4 times prior to the dividend then buy back for the dividend & we make sure we are registered each time, as if we don't, there is a danger of missing one & then it is too late.

I just re read your quote from Intelligent Investor....there is an incorrect statements there
i.e.







> When a company declares a dividend, in addition to the amount per share, it also declares a books closing date (the record date). This means that all shareholders who are on the company's share register at that date will receive the dividend.
> But in order to be on the share register at that date, investors need to have bought the shares at least three business days earlier.



They are saying that you need to buy 3 days before record date, which would be the day after exdiv date....not good....exdiv date is 4 business days before record date.


----------



## rozella (18 June 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold 2 parcels of ANZ today to finance other purchases.

Sold ANZ today @ 2930.0
Bought 26th April @ 3095.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 773.75/share
Exdiv 14th May
Dividend 62.0/share fully franked 26.57/share
Gross loss 76.43/share = 9.88% loss on investment, incl fc.  53 days

Sold ANZ today @ 2930.0
Bought 10th May @ 3070.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 767.5/share
Exdiv 14th May
Dividend 62.0/share fully franked 26.57/share
Gross loss 78.0/share = 10.16% loss on investment, excl fc.  39 days

Bought DRT today @ 192.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 48.0/unit
exdist expected 25th June
Last years distribution was 5.55/unit zero franked.

Bought CFX today @ 223.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 55.75/unit
exdist expected 25th June
Last years distribution was 5.64/unit zero franked.


----------



## rozella (20 June 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold DRT today @ 199.0
Bought 18th June @ 192.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 48.0/unit
exdist 25th June
Distribution 5.7/unit zero franked.
Gross profit 7.0/unit = 14.58% return on investment.  2 days


----------



## rozella (20 June 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold CFX today on the close @ 233.0
Bought 18th June @ 223.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 55.75/unit
exdist 25th June
Distribution was 5.9/unit zero franked.
Gross profit 10.0/unit = 17.94% return on investment.  2 days


----------



## lcorteen (21 June 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella

I am very new to trading & it's really helpful to see exactly what other's are trading - entry and exits, stops and profit targets, so thanks for your time.

Wondered if you would look at AEU - it is going ex div on 25/6 with div of 14 odd cents.  What would be your strategy?  Not sure if you are aware of the Investor Centre software which has an indicator that shows when big money (unusually large parcels) of money go on a stock, usually after market so they don't show up on volume... anyway, there has been a lot of big money going into this stock in the last 5 days and none for about a year.  I note there is also a fin report due in july for AEU.   

Look forward to your response


----------



## rozella (21 June 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day lcorteen,

AEU pays a distribution quarterly, this time being 3.7 cents.  Total for the year is 14.6 cents.

It does not meet my basic criteria to be on my personal watchlist, as even with marginlending, this distribution only yields 4.05%.  My initial criteria is 10% or better.

I am not saying that there is anything wrong with the stock, just that it does not fit my strategy rules.


----------



## lcorteen (21 June 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Cheers!


----------



## rozella (22 June 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought STW today @ 6360.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 1908.0/unit
exdist 25th June
distribution 244.4859/unit

I traded this one last December for the distribution & all turned out okay.


----------



## ozambersand (25 June 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Rozella, as you'be been doing this for a while, have you noticed whether the drop and recover after the dividend is different at different times of the year?

For example, the banks really take a hit after the dividend in the first half of the year but seem to be better in the second half of the year.

Similarly, the property stocks take a battering now but again seem to rebound better/not drop as much in the later part of the year.

Is that what you find?


----------



## rozella (25 June 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day ozambersand,

The situation is nearly always random....what can be a great stock this round can be a 'dog' the next.  Many spend countless hours trying to find a pattern, but life is not that easy....much depends on the flavour of the market as to rebounds immediately.

Now if the DOW was up 185 points on Friday, then there would be quite a few of the 80+ trusts that were quoted exdist today, back to their pre-exdist prices.  I always place my LPT sell orders in prior to open on exdist day & many times can jag a sale in the open.

I have found that on exdividend/exdistribution days, if we have a good market day, the price recovers a reasonable amount of the dividend + franking credit & sometimes regain the whole lot.

On an ordinary day they may drop the dividend only.

On a day like today, they could possibly drop the dividend + franking credit + maybe more.

But don't panic, today there was probably a bit of overkill & hopefully a part recovery tomorrow.

Banks & LPTs can sometimes take upto 65 days to recover.  Okay you might be entitled to the banks franking credit but if you are marginlending, the interest wipes out the franking value at about 45 to 55 days depending on the LVR, so it is a mathematical equation to decide when to sell & move on to the next.


----------



## rozella (28 June 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Needed to draw on some dollars today for another project, but in hindsight should have done it a week ago when some of the prices were higher.

Sold JST today @ 431.0
Bought 23rd April @ 445.0 with a margin of 60%
Investment 178.0/share
Exdiv 7th May
Dividend 9.5/share fully franked 4.07/share
Gross loss 0.43/share = 0.24% loss on investment.  66 days

Sold ENV today @ 115.5
Bought 2nd May @ 123.0/unit with a margin of 65%
Investment 43.05/unit
Exdist date 7th May
Distribution 3.8/unit zero franked
Gross loss 3.7/unit = 8.59% loss on investment.  57 days

Sold NAB today @ 4090.0
Bought 10th May @ 4335.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1083.75/share
Exdiv 1st June
Dividend 87.0/share 90% franked 33.55/share
Gross loss 124.45/share = 11.48% loss on investment.  49 days

Sold MIG today @ 354.0
Bought 6th June @ 372.0 with a margin of 80%
Investment 74.4/share zero franked ?
Exdiv 25th June
Dividend was 10.0/share zero franked.
Gross loss 8.0/share = 10.75% loss on investment.  22 days


----------



## ozambersand (29 June 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Ouch those figures will put in a dent in your good year - or is that good in terms of tax?!!!

Rozella, pundits say that dividend yield plays only work in a bull market, so would you revise your strategy if you felt a bear market was likely in the next 6 months?

Why I say that, is that many companies share prices are being seriously hit once they report (eg Metcash, Caltex, Brambles, CocaCola) as the profits aren't as good as expected.

Given that a lot of companies will be reporting in August, do you think this will have an effect on the market which might make dividend yield trading risky?

Or will you just rely on tight stops?


----------



## rozella (29 June 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day ozamberland,



> Ouch those figures will put in a dent in your good year - or is that good in terms of tax?!!!



Those sells in the previous post have not much to do with the dividend strategy as I had given myself a deadline of next Tuesday to withdraw some capital for another project & those sales achieved that, & yesterday was the best opportunity I have had in recent days.



> Rozella, pundits say that dividend yield plays only work in a bull market, so would you revise your strategy if you felt a bear market was likely in the next 6 months?



I can't agree with the pundits.....I have been trading this way for the last 9/10 years with plenty of ups & downs including disasters....the pundits probably have not tried the strategy over a period for a genuine comment.



> Why I say that, is that many companies share prices are being seriously hit once they report (eg Metcash, Caltex, Brambles, CocaCola) as the profits aren't as good as expected.



In a bear market, one should be more cautious & wait for the report.  To buy prior to the announcement is a calculated 'gamble' & this can be worth it in a bull market as we know.

Those stocks you mention don't generally suit the criteria for dividend trading....MTS maybe, if you bought around 21st & 22nd June.....I have traded this one before many times.  I have learnt my lesson with low yielders long ago, although I do trade BXB with CFDs but not as the dividend strategy.



> Given that a lot of companies will be reporting in August, do you think this will have an effect on the market which might make dividend yield trading risky?



Just the opposite, I am looking forward to a good reporting season.


----------



## ozambersand (1 July 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I have been doing a bit of mucking around this weekend with the XJO (ASX200 index) figures for the last financial year.

My main aim is to create a record for myself of the major effects on the market for a guide as to likely reactions from similar effects. (I know it's always different, but got to start somewhere 

I added other things that I think affect the market - in this case major stocks going ex-dividend as it can really affect a market.

That's why I chose this index rather than the XAO as I thought it would be the one most affected by dividend yield trading.

If anyone can identify other factors/dates that I missed, I would be grateful if you could point them out.

There are a few major drops without tags but I can't remember what would have spooked the market.

For example the index went down suddenly between the 3rd and 8th January (was there an interest rate hike?) It also had a big increase between the 2nd and 4th April. Why?

It's interesting to see how smooth the market is when there isn't many companies going ex-dividend eg January and October!


----------



## Warren Buffet II (2 July 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi ozambersand,

Nice graph, can you put one where you can see the months in there, I can only see the year.

WBII



ozambersand said:


> I have been doing a bit of mucking around this weekend with the XJO (ASX200 index) figures for the last financial year.
> 
> My main aim is to create a record for myself of the major effects on the market for a guide as to likely reactions from similar effects. (I know it's always different, but got to start somewhere
> 
> ...


----------



## ozambersand (3 July 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hope this version is better. Have done my own research  and worked out what those sudden moves were in reaction to.


----------



## kerosam (23 July 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

hello rozella,

1. how can i use this strategy with CFDs? Long the share till the day it XD. But i'm unsure whether there is a tendency of paying more on the cost of holding the share than the dividend received.

2. from your website, your stop loss is 3%. Do you apply this constant figure through all your trades?

3. Is this strategy merely dividend stripping? i.e. buy in for the dividends and say good bye to it after XD.

4. Any specific type of companies that work well with this strategy or just companies that pay dividends?

thanks in advance.


----------



## rozella (23 July 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Kerosam,



> 1. how can i use this strategy with CFDs?



I do it with CFDs as well, but they are not posted.  The interest is more, however, the volume purchased is more.



> But i'm unsure whether there is a tendency of paying more on the cost of holding the share than the dividend received.



If you have the time, you could use some of the trades on my website & recalculate with CFDs....the buy/sell prices & the holding period will be the same.



> 2. from your website, your stop loss is 3%. Do you apply this constant figure through all your trades?



Yes



> 3. Is this strategy merely dividend stripping? i.e. buy in for the dividends and say good bye to it after XD.



I prefer to call it dividend trading as dividend stripping usually refers to stripping the franking credit.

But yes....I am very happy if I can achieve a profit equal to the dividend on every trade.....& keep churning.



> 4. Any specific type of companies that work well with this strategy or just companies that pay dividends?



Yes, it is better to filter out the high yielders, as they are the ones that have a higher probability of increased price on announcement, subject to announcement results.

*Note: the trades that I post on the forum are not the same trades that are on my website....the website portfolio only uses end of day data & selling is only when a stop is hit.....my own posts are intraday day trades with much more discretion.*

This is the exdividendwatchlist comparison results over the past 3 years, using end of day data only, selling when stops are hit allowing profits to run. Franking credits are not included in the profit calculations.

This is a very basic strategy just to show that there is merit in trading cum-dividend stocks.


----------



## rozella (29 July 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Have not posted much here this month...mainly because most of my stocks were edging up nicely & I was fully in the market....& very busy etc etc, however, this week took a different slant on things & in the last 2 days I closed 23 trades....was not a pretty week.

I have almost a clean slate now & will see which way the market will jump.....it is actually not a bad time for a correction, just as the reporting season is about to kick off. After the big drop-off in September 2001, my best trading month ever is still October 2001.


----------



## rozella (30 July 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought 2 parcels of AFI today

Bought AFI today @ 587.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 176.1/share
Exdiv date 1st August
Dividend 13.0/share fully franked 5.57/share

Bought AFI today on the close @ 589.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 176.7/share
Exdiv date 1st August
Dividend 13.0/share fully franked 5.57/share

Bought ALS today on the close @ 1400.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 490.0/share
Exdiv date 14th August
Dividend 36.0/share fully franked 15.43/share

Sold ANZ today @ 2805.0
Bought 19th April @ 3095.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 773.75/share
Exdiv 14th May
Dividend 62.0/share fully franked 26.57/share
Gross loss 201.43/share = 26.03% loss on investment.  102 days


----------



## rozella (31 July 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought 2 parcels of WDC on the close today. (different tax entities)

Bought WDC today @ 1905.0 with a margin of 80%
Investment 381.0/unit
Exdiv 8th August, 
Distribution 53.25/unit, franking TBA

Bought WDC today @ 1905.0 with a margin of 80%
Investment 381.0/unit
Exdiv 8th August, 
Distribution 53.25/unit, franking TBA


----------



## rozella (1 August 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of ALS today @ 1401.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 490.35/share
Exdiv date 14th August
Dividend 36.0/share fully franked 15.43/share


----------



## j4mesa (2 August 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Don,

I am eyeing that share for div trade as well.
But feel worried as market is uncertain at the moment.....anything can happen
But as the is div trade,the tendency to stay around that level 14.00 mark is pretty strong...........you are buying at the right price 
I missed that 14 dollars mark....

Good luck Don


----------



## rozella (3 August 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of WDC today @ 1886.0 with a margin of 80%
Investment 377.2/share
Exdiv 8th August, 
Distribution 53.25/unit, franking TBA


----------



## ozambersand (5 August 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Rozella, do you think Wesfarmers will pay a dividend this month? They usually go ex-dividend on 21st August.

Also, last time they had a dividend of $1.50. Any speculation on what they would do this year? Would they reduce it so they could pay for Coles? Or would they announce a good one, hoping to attract back investors to get their share price up to ensure the purchase of Coles goes through?

By the way, my Lions Nathan dividend came through so I'm happy about that.

I am also learning a lot. I can see why you don't wait for franking credits as the interest payment incorporated into warrants is more than the income from those. Mind you as interest can be claimed as a taxable deduction on gross and franking credits count as tax paid, there are some advantages of waiting.

Not going to wait for them in the future!

I also worked out that the interest on warrants (and time decay) is more than margin lending interest rates. Now, only advantage left for warrants is the re-sale guarantee to a market maker based on the share's offer and buy price. The way they change the delta though is making me wonder if that is worth it.

I am still wondering if it is wise to try dividend yield plays in a market that is looking decidely bearish. Have you been doing it long enough to experience a long term bear market?

Also just noticed this on the Westfield webpage?


> The announcement of the Westfield Group’s results for the six months ended 30 June 2007 (and lodgement of the Appendix 4D) will be made on Wednesday, 29 August 2007. *That announcement will include final confirmation of the distribution for that period*.




Does this relate to the 53.25 cent dividend with an ex-div date of 8th August? Could they change it?


----------



## rozella (5 August 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day ozambersand,



> Rozella, do you think Wesfarmers will pay a dividend this month? They usually go ex-dividend on 21st August.



They should announce profit & dividend on 16th August, but this is subject to change.  Last year they were quoted exdividend on the 21st August, & the dividend was 150.0 fully franked.  I use the previous year as a guide only.



> I am also learning a lot. I can see why you don't wait for franking credits as the interest payment incorporated into warrants is more than the income from those. Mind you as interest can be claimed as a taxable deduction on gross and franking credits count as tax paid, there are some advantages of waiting.
> 
> Not going to wait for them in the future!



Yes it can be false economy.  Why wait the time if your price is already at your target sell & run the risk of the share price falling more than the franking credit.



> I am still wondering if it is wise to try dividend yield plays in a market that is looking decidely bearish. Have you been doing it long enough to experience a long term bear market?



Almost 10 years & have never been even close to a negative year.



> Also just noticed this on the Westfield webpage?
> 
> Quote:
> The announcement of the Westfield Group’s results for the six months ended 30 June 2007 (and lodgement of the Appendix 4D) will be made on Wednesday, 29 August 2007. That announcement will include final confirmation of the distribution for that period.
> ...




Property trusts always do it as an estimate, but I have never seen a change in distribution announced at their meeting.  Atm we don't know if there is any franking....that will be announced on the 29th August.  The probability that the distribution will be confirmed as 53.25/unit is very high.


----------



## ozambersand (5 August 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



> Yes it can be false economy. Why wait the time if your price is already at your target sell & run the risk of the share price falling more than the franking credit.




Came upon a prime example of that - Metcash. Got in just before the dividend, it went up to more than the franking credits and I held on, waiting.  Now it's gone right down (thanks to a major shareholder dumping shares by the millions just before the "correction".

Expensive lesson!


----------



## rozella (8 August 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold 2 parcels of WDC today @ 1896.0

Sold WDC today @ 1896.0
Bought 3rd August @ 1886.0 with a margin of 80%
Investment 377.2/share
Exdiv 8th August, 
Distribution 53.25/unit, franking TBA
Gross profit 63.25/unit = 16.77% return on investment.  5 days

Sold WDC today @ 1896.0
Bought 31st July @ 1905.0 with a margin of 80%
Investment 381.0/unit
Exdiv 8th August, 
Distribution 53.25/unit, franking TBA
Gross profit 44.25/unit = 11.61% return on investment.  8 days


----------



## rozella (9 August 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold WDC on the open today @ 1912.0 (golf day)
Bought 31st July @ 1905.0 with a margin of 80%
Investment 381.0/unit
Exdiv 8th August, 
Distribution 53.25/unit, franking TBA
Gross profit 60.25/unit = 15.81% return on investment.  9 days

Bought GUD today @ 1090.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 381.50
Exdiv 20th August
Dividend 34.0/share fully franked, 14.57/share

Bought TLSCA today @ 305.0 with a margin of 80%
Investment 61.0/share
Exdiv 20th August
Dividend 14.0/share fully franked, 6.0/share


----------



## ozambersand (9 August 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Westfield held up nicely for a short dividend yield play. Wish they were all like that!!!! 

(I got out too soon again!)  Still a profit is a profit!


----------



## rozella (9 August 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



ozambersand said:


> Westfield held up nicely for a short dividend yield play. Wish they were all like that!!!!
> 
> (I got out too soon again!)  Still a profit is a profit!




Well thats right...closed on its high for the day @ 1965.0....but we were happy to sell when we did & move on.


----------



## rozella (9 August 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold a parcel of AFI on the close today @ 587.0
Bought 30th July @ 587.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 176.1/share
Exdiv date 1st August
Dividend 13.0/share fully franked 5.57/share
Gross profit 13.0/share = 7.38% return on investment.  10 days


----------



## rozella (10 August 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought WAN today @ 1352.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 405.60/share
Exdiv 10th September
Dividend 31.0/share fully franked 13.29/share


----------



## CanOz (10 August 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



rozella said:


> Bought WAN today @ 1352.0 with a margin of 70%
> Investment 405.60/share
> Exdiv 10th September
> Dividend 31.0/share fully franked 13.29/share




I reckon this would be an interesting time for you Rosella. Am i right in thinking it may provide some of the best dividend trading opportunities so far...when the dust settles a bit?

Cheers,


----------



## rozella (10 August 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day CanOz,



> I reckon this would be an interesting time for you Rosella. Am i right in thinking it may provide some of the best dividend trading opportunities so far...when the dust settles a bit?



Yes, I am treading cautiously atm as there is no need to rush in heavy yet.  The volatility is similar to The September 11th 2001 era, where October 2001 ended to be my best month ever.


----------



## rozella (15 August 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold WAN today @ 1394.0
Bought 10th August @ 1352.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 405.60/share
Exdiv 10th September
Dividend 31.0/share fully franked 13.29/share
Gross profit 42.0/share = 10.35% return on investment.

Will re-enter on a down swing if opportunity arises


----------



## rozella (15 August 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought CBA today @ 5320.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1330.0/share
Exdiv 20th August
Dividend 149.0/share fully franked 63.85/share


----------



## rozella (20 August 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold CBA today @ 5325.0
Bought 15th August @ 5320.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1330.0/share
Exdiv 20th August
Dividend 149.0/share fully franked 63.85/share
Gross profit 154.0/share = 11.58% return on investment.  5 days


----------



## rozella (21 August 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought QAN today @ 545.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 163.50/share
Exdiv 27th August
Dividend 15.0/share fully franked 6.43/share


----------



## rozella (27 August 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold QAN today @ 550.0
Bought 21st August @ 545.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 163.50/share
Exdiv 27th August
Dividend 15.0/share fully franked 6.43/share
Gross profit 20.0/share = 12.23% return on investment.  fc excl. 6 days


----------



## rozella (27 August 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold my last parcel of AFI today @ 585.0
Bought 30th July @ 589.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 176.7/share
Exdiv date 1st August
Dividend 13.0/share fully franked 5.57/share
Gross profit 9.0/share = 5.095% return on investment, excl fc.  28 days


----------



## rozella (28 August 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought SHL today @ 1495.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 373.75/share
Exdiv 30th August
Dividend 29.0/share fully franked 12.43/share


----------



## ozambersand (28 August 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Rozella,
Another company which is going ex-div in the next couple of days is IAG. because of recent reports its share price has gone down a lot lately but with current dividend being paid, they represent a pretty good yield.
Do you avoid companies like that because you don't trust them holding their price afterwards?
Do you also make it a practice in a volatile market to limit the time you hold the shares?


----------



## rozella (28 August 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day ozambersand,

Yes IAG goes exdiv on 30th August....there are plenty to pick from atm that I would prefer, although I have a small quantity.

34 more stocks declared their dividends today so it is a busy period that will last us through to November which overlaps with the next round of cum-dividend stocks.



> Do you avoid companies like that because you don't trust them holding their price afterwards?
> Do you also make it a practice in a volatile market to limit the time you hold the shares?



I would rather buy a stock that has posted a better result than IAG....there are plenty to choose from atm with a higher probability that they will rise.

Volatile market or not, it is better to have a high stockturn with the same cash.  i.e try to achieve the most profit in the shortest time frame & keep repeating the process.  My average days open last year was 36.29 days.....some are only a day or two & others could be up to 60/70 days (which is too long)


----------



## ozambersand (28 August 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thanks for that reply. I am finding the hardest part is knowing when to sell. Lately have sold too soon as I am a bit jittery with what the market is going to do. I'm still a novice!
Have you noticed that Westfield is at $21.00 now? It's gone up 10% in just 20 days! (I sold ex-div day, took my dividend and ran with a bit of a loss on the trade but still made 10.4% on a one day trade!!) Maybe, this is one field where you don't want to dwell on the past (or get too greedy!!)


----------



## rozella (28 August 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

ozambersand,

For myself...I take the profits when they are there.  its a 2-way street...how many times are we a bit greedy & wait for more rise, then it drops....short trades are sweet.

It also depends whether you then utilised the cash from WDC into another profitable trade.

I consider trading as though I was running a shop.....its the profits you generate at the end of each month that count & not just individual trades.


----------



## rozella (29 August 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought SUN today @ 2008.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 502.0/share
Exdiv tomorrow 30th August
Dividend 55.0/share fully franked 23.57/share

Bought FGL today on the close @ 637.0 with a margin of 80%
Investment 127.4/share
Exdiv 31st August
Dividend 13.0/share fully franked 5.57/share


----------



## rozella (30 August 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold FGL today before exdiv @ 650.0
Bought 29th August @ 637.0 with a margin of 80%
Investment 127.4/share
Exdiv 31st August
Dividend 13.0/share fully franked 5.57/share
Gross profit 13.0/share = 10.2% return on investment.  1 day


----------



## rozella (31 August 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold SHL today @ 1495.0
Bought 28th August @ 1495.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 373.75/share
Exdiv 30th August
Dividend 29.0/share fully franked 12.43/share
Gross profit 29.0/share = 7.76% return on investment.  3 days


----------



## rozella (31 August 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold SUN today @ 2004.0
Bought 29th August @ 2008.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 502.0/share
Exdiv tomorrow 30th August
Dividend 55.0/share fully franked 23.57/share
Gross profit 51.0/share = 10.16% return on investment.  2 days


----------



## rozella (31 August 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold WBC today @ 2720.0
Bought 23rd April @ 2709.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 677.25/share
Exdiv 17th May
Dividend 63.0/share fully franked 27.0/share
Gross profit 101.0/share = 14.91% return on investment incl fc.  130 days

Sold GUD today on the close @ 1100.0
Bought 9th August @ 1090.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 381.50
Exdiv 20th August
Dividend 34.0/share fully franked, 14.57/share

Gross profit 44.0/share = 11.53% return on investment.  22 days


----------



## rozella (3 September 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought GWT today @ 421.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 126.3/share
Exdiv 10th September
Dividend + special dividend 10.5/share fully franked 4.50/share
Sold today @ 433.0
Gross profit 12.0/share = 9.50% return on investment. 0.5 days

Bought AMP today @ 1045.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 261.25/share
Exdiv 10th September
Dividend 22.0/share 85% franked 8.01/share


----------



## rozella (12 September 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Since the dividend reporting season has taken a breather we have been ' travelling & trading' around central west NSW...Dubbo at present. We are using a Bigpond nextG mobile USB card connected to a ethermax docking station, then a ethernet switch which shares internet with 2 desktops + laptop....all works quite well providing Telstra service is available.....Moss Vale has been the only problem in the last 11 days. ISP charges with the mobile next G are very high so I have not been posting on the forum until I had some time to test the usage.

Sold SGP on 4th September @ 877.0
Bought on 18th May @ 875.0 with a margin of 80%
Investment 175.0/unit
Exdist 25th June
Distribution 22.8/unit
Gross profit 24.8/unit = 14.17% return on investment. 109 days

Sold AMP on 6th September @ 1076.0
Bought on 3rd September @ 1045.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 261.25/share
Exdiv 10th September
Dividend 22.0/share 85% franked 8.01/share
Gross profit 31.0/share = 11.86% return on investment. 3 days

Sold GFF on 6th September @ 262.0
Bought on 4th September @ 252.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 75.6/share
Exdiv 24th September
Dividend 7.5/share 65% franked 2.09/share
Gross profit 10.0/share = 13.22% return on investment. 2 days


----------



## rozella (13 September 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered GFF today @ 251.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 75.3/share
Exdiv 24th September
Dividend 7.5/share 65% franked 2.09/share


----------



## rozella (17 September 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought 2 parcels of BSL today

Bought BSL today @ 1040.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 260.0/share
Exdiv 24th September
Dividend 26.0/share fully franked 11.14/share

Bought BSL today @ 1035.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 310.5/share
Exdiv 24th September
Dividend 26.0/share fully franked 11.14/share


----------



## rozella (18 September 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of GFF today @ 251.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 75.3/share
Exdiv 24th September
Dividend 7.5/share 65% franked 2.09/share

Bought ZFX today @ 1580.3 with a margin of 70%
Investment 474.0/share
Exdiv 30th October
Dividend 70.0/share fully franked 30.0/share

Missed GFF at a lower price.....have been travelling & sightseeing most of the day....at Wagga Wagga atm.


----------



## rozella (24 September 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold a parcel of BSL today @ 1035.0
Bought BSL 17th September @ 1035.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 310.5/share
Exdiv 24th September
Dividend 26.0/share fully franked 11.14/share
Gross profit 26.0/share = 8.37% return on investment.  7 days


----------



## rozella (24 September 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold my 2nd parcel of BSL today @ 1040.0
Bought BSL 17th September @ 1040.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 260.0/share
Exdiv 24th September
Dividend 26.0/share fully franked 11.14/share
Gross profit 26.0/share = 10.0% return on investment.  7 days


----------



## rozella (25 September 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought FCL on the close yesterday @ 225.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 78.75/share
Exdiv 2nd October
Dividend 5.5/share, fully franked 2.36/share


----------



## rozella (26 September 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold 1 parcel of GFF today @ 251.0 with the other parcel partially sold @ 251.0
Bought GFF 18th September @ 251.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 75.3/share
Exdiv 24th September
Dividend 7.5/share 65% franked 2.09/share
Gross profit 7.5/share = 9.96% return on investment.  8 days


----------



## rozella (26 September 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Finally sold my 2nd parcel of GFF @ 251.0 today, I thought it had escaped down again when it dropped back to 245.0
Bought 13th September @ 251.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 75.3/share
Exdiv 24th September
Dividend 7.5/share 65% franked 2.09/share
Gross profit 7.5/share = 9.96% return on investment.  13 days


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (26 September 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,

I enjoy reading your posts. 
Thanks for posting them.
Snake


----------



## rozella (28 September 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold STW today @ 6380.00
Bought 22nd June @ 6360.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 1908.0/unit
exdist 25th June
distribution 239.8348/unit, franking credit 27.5844/unit
Gross profit 287.42/unit = 15.06% return on investment, incl fc.  98 days

Thanks snake.


----------



## doctorj (28 September 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



It's Snake Pliskin said:


> Hi Rozella,
> 
> I enjoy reading your posts.
> Thanks for posting them.
> Snake



+1 for this.  Thanks rozella, the insight you offer into this style of trading is invaluable.

Any chance of you posting an equity curve for the last few years?


----------



## rozella (28 September 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



doctorj said:


> +1 for this.  Thanks rozella, the insight you offer into this style of trading is invaluable.
> 
> Any chance of you posting an equity curve for the last few years?



G'day doctorj,

I have not updated my personal trading equity curve for a couple of years because of too many other things to do......but you have inspired me to catchup & will post it in due course.

Cheers,


----------



## rozella (1 October 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought GPT on the close today @ 500.0 with a margin of 80%
Investment 100.0/unit
Distribution announcement expected this month
Exdist expected 25th October
Last years distribution was 6.9/unit zero franked

It is below my normal yield criteria because it pays quarterly, however, I trade it each period usually a couple of times prior to exdist.


----------



## michael_selway (2 October 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



rozella said:


> Bought GPT on the close today @ 500.0 with a margin of 80%
> Investment 100.0/unit
> Distribution announcement expected this month
> Exdist expected 25th October
> ...




Hi rozella thanks 

Btw how did you go during that "August Crash"?

thx

MS


----------



## rozella (2 October 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Michael,



> Hi rozella thanks
> 
> Btw how did you go during that "August Crash"?
> 
> ...




I had 13 purchases in August of which 9 were wins & the other 4 are still open.  Ytd to September 28th, I have had 31 purchases of which 20 were wins, 1 loss & 10 still open.  The loss was RIO sold at $90.70 in July...ha-ha now $111.44  ROC 13.20% for completed trades in the qtr.

The July/August correction slowed me up a bit.

The comparison for the same period last year is 37 purchases, 30 wins & 7 losses.  ROC 9.7% for completed trades in the qtr.

This year has been better overall, as ALS, FCL & TLSCA are my only losers to speak of in this year in my open trades.


----------



## rozella (3 October 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought 2 parcels of DJS today

Bought DJS @ 501.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 150.3/share
Exdiv 10th October
Dividend 13.0/share fully franked 5.57/share

Bought DJS @ 493.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 147.9/share
Exdiv 10th October
Dividend 13.0/share fully franked 5.57/share


----------



## rozella (5 October 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought ANZ on the open today @ 3045.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 761.25/share
Profit announcement expected 25th October
Exdiv expected 8th November
Last years dividend was 69.0/share fully franked 29.57/share


----------



## rozella (10 October 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold a parcel of DJS to day @ 496.0
Bought 3rd October @ 493.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 147.9/share
Exdiv 10th October
Dividend 13.0/share fully franked 5.57/share
Gross profit 15.0/share = 10.14% return on investment excl fc.  7 days.


----------



## rozella (11 October 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold TLSCA today @ 307.0
Bought 9th August @ 305.0 with a margin of 80%
Investment 61.0/share
Exdiv 20th August
Dividend 14.0/share fully franked, 6.0/share
Gross profit 22.0/share = 36.06% return on investment, incl fc.  63 days.


----------



## notneo (12 October 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



rozella said:


> Bought 2 parcels of DJS today
> 
> Bought DJS @ 501.0 with a margin of 70%
> Investment 150.3/share
> ...






rozella said:


> Sold a parcel of DJS to day @ 496.0
> Bought 3rd October @ 493.0 with a margin of 70%
> Investment 147.9/share
> Exdiv 10th October
> ...





Didn't you buy them @501 as opposed to 493 and would have incurred a loss?


----------



## rozella (12 October 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day notneo,

I bought two separate parcels (in separate tax entities) at two different prices.....493.0 & 501.0

One parcel, bought @ 493.0 has been sold, the other, I still hold.


----------



## notneo (12 October 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sorry about that, I must have skimmed over your post. Thanks for your posts, it has given me yet more food for thought


----------



## rozella (15 October 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold last parcel of DJS today on the open @ 502.0
Bought 3rd October @ 501.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 150.3/share
Exdiv 10th October
Dividend 13.0/share fully franked 5.57/share
Gross profit 14.0/share = 9.31% return on investment, excl fc.  12 days.


----------



## rozella (15 October 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of ZFX today @ 1815.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 544.5/share
Exdiv 30th October
Dividend 70.0/share fully franked 30.0/share


----------



## rozella (16 October 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought another parcel of ZFX today on the open @ 1800.0 with a margin of 70%
Now have my full quota
Investment 540.0/share
Exdiv 30th October
Dividend 70.0/share fully franked 30.0/share


----------



## rozella (16 October 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought WES today @ 4290.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1072.50/share
Exdiv 8th November
Dividend 140.0/share fully franked 60.0/share

Bought WBC today @ 2920.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 730.0/share
Announcement expected 1st November
Exdiv expected 6th November
Last years dividend was 60.0/share fully franked 25.71/share


----------



## Fool (21 October 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

hey  rozella,

what are the difference between margin lending and CFD, 

cfd would produce a higher investment per/share but wouldn't get frank dividends

margin lending you get frank dividends to save on tax, 

Have you done an analysis as to which one would work out better? 

Or I take it tax benefits win hands down?


----------



## rozella (22 October 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Fool,

I trade both CFDs & conventional marginlending.  I find it easier to trade the dividend strategy with conventional marginlending as wider swings are required, however, I use CFDs to trade the S&P/ASX 20 but only with about 5% to 10% of my trading capital.

CFD
There is no ownership of the share so no asset
Interest is calculated on 100% of the purchase price changing each day (mark to market) so as the share price increases you pay interest on a higher value each day.
Interest is capitalised to the loan
No franking credits
High leverage
No buffer
S&P/ASX 20 LVRs are 95% to 97% with my provider
Margin calls usually intraday

Marginlending
Ownership of shares
Interest is calculated on the LVR amount & remains on that amount.
Interest is normally capitalised to the loan
Franking credits if eligible
Reasonable leverage
Usually another 10% buffer
Margin calls usually the next morning
LVRs on shares that I trade 70% to 80%

Comment
Today the market is down 132.2 points atm & I was into my buffer with three margin loans at open....but I am nowhere near a margin call.
I am glad that my CFD account is only small compared to the other accounts  as my capital dropped about 30% (cfd acct) on open & have been very near an intraday margin call most of the day, but I will sell something to balance up if it falls more.  BHP & RIO are the main culprits.

I prefer to use conventional marginlending with the bulk of my working capital as over a period it is far more rewarding for me.

rozella


----------



## Fool (22 October 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thanks very much for sharing Rozella, 

I saw that your ZFX hit your stop loss, are you planing to re-enter?? I am weighing it up atm.


----------



## prawn_86 (22 October 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I have recently been looking into dividend strategies.

I am doing it via CFD's Fool.

I have low income so taxation implications are not a problem at this stage. 

Here is my theory...please let me no if it make sense. Rozella i would appreciate your input also.

If a div yeild is greater that the margin % on the CFD then it represents a strong buy, as you will instantly be making over 100% profit on your margin invested, meaning it would need to fall massively ex div to not make any profit at all. 

I can give an example if anyone is interested.


** this is just an idea and has not been tested yet **


----------



## rozella (23 October 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



Fool said:


> Thanks very much for sharing Rozella,
> 
> I saw that your ZFX hit your stop loss, are you planing to re-enter?? I am weighing it up atm.



It hit the stoploss & was sold 17th October on the exdividendwatchlist portfolio @ 1754.0 & yes, we will re-enter if the opportunity arises.

If you are referring to my posts on this forum of my personal trades, then I am still holding.....I take a much more discretionary view depending on the state of the market.

Even though ZFX fell below my stoploss I am still holding.....commonsense must prevail when we have these kneejerk corrections. 1753.0 is about my stoploss for my last 2 buys & it closed at 1717.0 yesterday. Even though the DOW was up 44.95 points last night, zinc dumped $116.50/tonne.

I am fully in the market atm & ZFX is at my maximum holding so I am not prepared to buy more, however, I would be if my holding was lower. I am not prepared to hold more than 15% of total portfolio of any stock.

It is a matter of taking each day as it comes.


----------



## Fool (23 October 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

thanks Rozella, Appreciate it, helps us Newbies learn how dividend trading works.


----------



## Fool (23 October 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Well today I decided to give it a shoot, I got 2500 ZFX @ $17.64 and as Rozella was saying “commonsense must prevail”, so I have a very loose stop atm. Now my question is as a general rule does the share price drop as a % of the dividends like below?

70cent dividends
say ex dividends date SP =17.70

70cent is %3.9 of 17.70 = 0.6903

Therefore you would expect it to drop to ~17.0097


Profit from dividends = $1750
$44100(2500@ $17.64)-$42525(2500@ $17.01)
=-1575


Profit pre fees= $175

So is it  sometimes wise to sell before the ex dividends date and just be happy with SP of $18+??


Once again I am new to this so be nice…


----------



## Nyden (23 October 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Well, *sometimes* what happens is; the SP will rise in the last few days leading up to the exdiv / on the books date (hopefully close to the equiv of the div!).

And then in most instances; the SP does generally fall to that equiv as well.

I guess the trick is obviously to buy low 
Or hold for long enough after the exdiv date...until the price is more comfortable.

If someone believes different? Please post 





Fool said:


> Well today I decided to give it a shoot, I got 2500 ZFX @ $17.64 and as Rozella was saying “commonsense must prevail”, so I have a very loose stop atm. Now my question is as a general rule does the share price drop as a % of the dividends like below?
> 
> 70cent dividends
> say ex dividends date SP =17.70
> ...


----------



## rozella (23 October 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day fool,

I also mentioned that I would not risk a holding of more than 15% of portfolio & have also mentioned on a few earlier posts that this percentage is based on holding 10 to 15 stocks using a stoploss of 3% on each stock.  This means that if my largest holding drops to its stoploss it is only 0.45% of portfolio & that is why I have room to use some discretion.

With my marginlending, I always allow at least a drop on exdiv day of dividend + franking credit, whether I am entitled to the franking credit or not.

I expect a stock to drop at least this much on a low market day & drop less than the dividend on a good market day. 

So in the case of ZFX, I am prepared for it to drop div + fc = 100 cents/share

Yes, I almost always take the profit if the stock rises an amount about equal to the dividend prior to exdiv.  Why let the canary out of the cage so you can try & catch it again.  *The lure of the dividend, gives a stock a reason to rise*

There is no fixed time frame that the stock will return to our buy price & the same stock is usually different each time around.   It could return on the exdiv day (it happens many times but don't count on it) but generally within about 3 to 6 weeks.

Last year my average open days per stock was 37.3 days, this includes those that I have not stayed for the dividend.


----------



## Fool (23 October 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

thanks guys loving the help, I guess now we play the waiting gaming, i still have over have cash left.


----------



## Fool (23 October 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

can anyone tell me what XTSXOS means? i take it its something to do with after hours trading??  looks like a big order when through and how come the price level is 17.609??


----------



## roland (23 October 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



Fool said:


> can anyone tell me what XTSXOS means? i take it its something to do with after hours trading??  looks like a big order when through and how come the price level is 17.609??




Hi,

I did a search for you:

The codes represent an off-market transaction (XTSXOS).

It is actually three codes combined, where:
XT - Crossed trade
SX - Portfolio special crossing
OS - Overseas.


----------



## rozella (3 November 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold my 2 parcels of ALS yesterday @ 1115.0, my worst trade for a very long time....should know better.

Sold ALS yesterday @ 1115.0
Bought 30th July @ 1400.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 490.0/share
Exdiv date 14th August
Dividend 36.0/share fully franked 15.43/share
Gross loss 233.57/share = 47.66% loss on investment, incl fc.  95 days

Sold ALS yesterday @ 1115.0
Bought 1st August @ 1401.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 490.35/share
Exdiv date 14th August
Dividend 36.0/share fully franked 15.43/share
Gross loss 234.57/share = 47.83% loss on investment, incl fc.  93 days

Converted all proceeds (what was left) into SGP

Bought SGP yesterday @ 896.0 with a margin of 80%
Investment 179.2/unit
Distribution announcement expected about 18th December
Exdistribution expected 21st December
Last years dist was 21.5/unit 19.1% franked


----------



## Fool (3 November 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

thanks for the update Rozella, are you holding WES WESFARMERS??


----------



## rozella (3 November 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



Fool said:


> thanks for the update Rozella, are you holding WES WESFARMERS??



Yes I am....both with marginlender & CFDs....so far very good.


----------



## rozella (7 November 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold WBC today @ 3027.0
Bought 16th October @ 2920.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 730.0/share
Announcement 1st November
Exdiv 7th November
Dividend 68.0/share fully franked 29.14/share
Gross profit 175.0/share = 23.97% return on investment, excl fc.  22 days


----------



## brodion (7 November 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Can Anyone please tell me as to the problem with riding the increase of a stock as it nears its dividend payment.Do all stocks go up as it nears its ex-divodend? I do not wish to receive a dividend but only ride the stock value increase (the last week say)....Thankyou

   Church man


----------



## rozella (7 November 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



brodion said:


> Can Anyone please tell me as to the problem with riding the increase of a stock as it nears its dividend payment.Do all stocks go up as it nears its ex-divodend? I do not wish to receive a dividend but only ride the stock value increase (the last week say)....Thankyou
> 
> Church man



The basis of my strategy is *'The lure of the dividend, gives a stock a reason to rise'*

You mention *'do all stocks'*
Well the answer is no.....but if the stock has:
1. Increased profit
2. Increased dividend
3. A good outlook statement for the future
Then there is a reasonable probability that the stock will rise on the lead up to exdividend date.


----------



## roland (14 November 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sorry if this question has been answered already. The percentage listed as Dividend Yield is, as I understand, the percentage of yield based on a 12 month average of the SP.

If Dividend Stability is listed as being 100% or close, does this mean that we could expect the same percentage of SP being maintained - even if, for example, the SP doubles?

I guess the above question has an obvious answer - what I am really wanting some feedback on is people's experience on dividend returns growing or declining without reinvesting into said stock.

I have generally not worried too much about dividends, concentrating more on capital gains on SP changes - but just got struck on the head with thinking about the percentage of return based on SP. If we have a good growth stock then the percentage gain in Dividend value would be growing based on the SP rising.

So an initial investment of $10,000 now, with a dividend yield of 5% would be $500. Next year if the SP were to double (for arguments sake) the yield would still be 5%, which would be a return of $1,000 - so in effect, without additional investment my yield would actually be 10% on my original $10,000


mmmm, this makes dividend hunting a little more interesting...

any comments? Good or bad


----------



## bvbfan (14 November 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I think the dividend yield is generally based of the last closing price. I guess some may provide it of the last traded price.

Dividend stability would be the chance of the dividend being the same as the previous year (or greater) in dollars (or cent per share) terms
So if the company has been paying high dividends then drops the following year the stability should change as I underestand it.


----------



## Warren Buffet II (15 November 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



roland said:


> Sorry if this question has been answered already. The percentage listed as Dividend Yield is, as I understand, the percentage of yield based on a 12 month average of the SP.
> 
> If Dividend Stability is listed as being 100% or close, does this mean that we could expect the same percentage of SP being maintained - even if, for example, the SP doubles?
> 
> ...




Normally companies increase their dividends based on previous dividends payments and not on share price.

So they normally say "An increase of 10%", that is from prev paid divds.

Now, if share price raises too much in relation to the divds itself the yield will fall and the if the share price falls the yield will rise.

WBII


----------



## roland (15 November 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



Warren Buffet II said:


> Normally companies increase their dividends based on previous dividends payments and not on share price.
> 
> So they normally say "An increase of 10%", that is from prev paid divds.
> 
> ...




I think what I was trying to clarify in my head was the value of holding a high yielding stock, where it may pay 5% now based on it's current SP. 

If it still payed 5% when the SP rises, then, although it is still yielding 5% on current SP, you would in effect be yielding a higher percentage based on the original investment.


----------



## rozella (27 November 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold WES today @ 4295.0
Bought WES 16th October @ 4290.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 1072.50/share
Exdiv 8th November
Dividend 140.0/share fully franked 60.0/share
Gross profit 145.0/share = 13.52% return on investment, excl fc. 42 days


----------



## Fool (27 November 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

nice work rozella, I am still watching. I made a nice sum on WES too, but was worried there  for abit when it dropped off.


----------



## rozella (27 November 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



Fool said:


> nice work rozella, I am still watching. I made a nice sum on WES too, but was worried there  for abit when it dropped off.



I didn't take the chance holding out for the franking credit....who knows what will happen in this market....if only we knew next weeks prices...

Sold my WES cfd holdings as well which were bought for 3809.0


----------



## rozella (27 November 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought LNN on the close @ 916.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 229.0/share
Exdiv 10th December
Dividend 21.0/share fully franked 9.0/share


----------



## rozella (3 December 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold LNN today @ 937.0
Bought 27th November @ 916.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 229.0/share
Exdiv 10th December
Dividend 21.0/share fully franked 9.0/share
Gross profit 21.0/share = 9.17% return on investment.  6 days


----------



## rozella (4 December 2007)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold DRT today @ 204.0
Bought 8th November @ 198.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 49.5/unit
Exdist expected 21st December
Last years distribution was 5.6/unit
Gross profit 6.0/unit = 12.12% return on investment.  26 days


----------



## rozella (16 January 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day all.....I am still around.....its just that I have nothing much to post on the dividend trading strategy until the market settles.

I am just watching my prospects prior to the reporting season which is coming up at the end of the month & have been having a few CFD trades (small change trades) ....S&P/ASX20 stocks

I sold the last of my dividend trades today which was FCL for a small profit when interest is calculated....it has actually had some strength of late, however, I want to start this next session 100% in cash with no 'dead wood'

The way the market is travelling I think we will see the XAO at 5600 points shortly.....maybe a couple of days away at the speed it is travelling.......hopefully we will hit a low point as the reports start flowing.

At this point my plan is to wait for each report to see the reaction before a buy, then up run as far as possible selling prior to exdiv date.


----------



## Fool (16 January 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

hey rozella, 
i am still here too  will be interesting to see what happens tonight.


----------



## rozella (21 January 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

It feels strange being stockless after a decade of being 100%+ in the market, but it sure is better than losing 1 to 3 months salary every day.

DJW reported today & finished up 9 cents on a horrific day, although it has been on the slide since early January.  From my observations over the years, more than 50% of stocks that report are lower the day after announcement.....we will see how DJW fares tomorrow.

WAN, SGM, GPT, IAG & WOW were the only other positive rises today on my prospect watchlist.

My thoughts were that the XAO would hit 5600 as the reporting season commences at the end of the month, but I am thinking that this should be revised after todays performance.

I will have to become used to expecting the unexpected.


----------



## rozella (7 February 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought GUD on the close yesterday @ 997.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 348.95/share
Exdiv date 18th February
Dividend declared 30.0/share fully franked 12.86/share


----------



## rozella (14 February 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold GUD taday @ 1046.85 av
Bought  6th February @ 997.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 348.95/share
Exdiv date 18th February
Dividend declared 30.0/share fully franked 12.86/share
Gross profit 49.85/share = 14.28% return on investment.  8 days


----------



## dutchie (15 February 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Anyone like to comment on whether, generally speaking a share goes up on the day before ex-dividend.

What about the end of day auction does it usually still go up or no pattern??

Cheers

Dutchie


----------



## Birdster (22 February 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Does any know who gets the dividends if I sell *on* the ex-dividend day? ie; have bought on friday a number of shares that go xd on Monday and I sell on that day.

I searched the forum for an answer, and this thread was the closest I could find related. 

sorry if has been asked before.


----------



## robots (22 February 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

hello,

if you sell on ex-div day you get div,

if you sell b4 ex-div day you dont get div

thankyou

robots


----------



## Bill M (26 February 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



dutchie said:


> Anyone like to comment on whether, generally speaking a share goes up on the day before ex-dividend.
> 
> What about the end of day auction does it usually still go up or no pattern??
> 
> ...




What I find mostly that happens is that a few days prior to ex div the share will increase in price. However on the last day before ex div the sellers can come in droves and drive the price down, all thinking they will get out before the big drop the next day. The day before ex div with TAH just this week is a good example.  

In other cases like today with WES the price jumped 4.8%. Then in other cases a stock may have had a bad report or it's on the nose like CBA was just recently and nothing will save the stock even if it was just before ex div. It's just not an exact science unfortunately.


----------



## rozella (27 February 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought ABC 20th February @ 339.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 118.65/share
exdiv 6th March
Dividend 9.0/share fully franked
Special dividend 3.5/share
Sold 25th February @ 354.4av
Gross profit 15.4/share = 12.98% return on investment.  5 days

Bought ABC 26th February @ 345.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 120.75/share
exdiv 6th March
Dividend 9.0/share fully franked
Special dividend 3.5/share
Sold 26th February @ 355.6av
Gross profit 10.6/share = 8.78% return on investment.  0.5 days

Bought ABC 27th February @ 349.7av with a margin of 65%
Investment 122.4/share
exdiv 6th March
Dividend 9.0/share fully franked
Special dividend 3.5/share


----------



## rozella (27 February 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold ABC on the close today @ 359.0
Bought ABC 27th February (today) @ 349.7av with a margin of 65%
Investment 122.4/share
exdiv 6th March
Dividend 9.0/share fully franked
Special dividend 3.5/share fully franked
Gross profit 9.25/share = 7.55% return on investment.  0.5 days


----------



## rozella (28 February 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought AMP today @ 801.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 200.25/share
Exdiv 3rd March
Dividend declared 24.0/share 85% franked 8.74/share


----------



## rozella (1 March 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold AMP on the close yesterday (29th Feb)@ 805.0
Bought 28th February @ 801.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 200.25/share
Exdiv 3rd March
Dividend declared 24.0/share 85% franked 8.74/share
Gross profit 4.0/share = 2.0% return on investment.  1 day

Holding nil stocks again now.


----------



## phoenix_gr (2 March 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



rozella said:


> Bought AMP today @ 801.0 with a margin of 75%




Hi, could you explain what you mean by "with a margin of 75%" i'm new to trading so i don't know the terminology (i am final year Commerce with Fin major so your answer can be technical and i'll prob understand, or comeback tomorrow looking like i wasted 2 years  ).


----------



## rozella (2 March 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



phoenix_gr said:


> Hi, could you explain what you mean by "with a margin of 75%" i'm new to trading so i don't know the terminology (i am final year Commerce with Fin major so your answer can be technical and i'll prob understand, or comeback tomorrow looking like i wasted 2 years  ).



Its a bad choice of words I suppose, however what I mean is that I bought using marginlending with a LVR of 75%  

I used to say LVR then I was asked what that meant so I changed to using margin.

LVR - loan to value ratio


----------



## michael_selway (2 March 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



rozella said:


> Sold AMP on the close yesterday (29th Feb)@ 805.0
> Bought 28th February @ 801.0 with a margin of 75%
> Investment 200.25/share
> Exdiv 3rd March
> ...




Hi do you reckon that in a "bearish" like now, this strategy doesnt work so well?

thx

MS


----------



## rozella (3 March 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Michael,

The dividend strategy has served me well for 10 years which 1997 & 2001 were difficult, however these periods even though they were bearish, were not as volatile as it has been in the last 3 months.

While the market is this volatile I am happy to just to take pickings with the strategy & in all cases don't hold over exdiv date.  This does not mean that I am not trading as I also trade the S&P/ASX20 with CFDs.  I have never kept long term stocks.

I have only had 4 dividend trades in the last 3 months with 1 loss & 3 wins which included nil trades in January.

3 months or even 6 months is not much out of 10 years, as I am sure that we will find bottom over the next few months & will be back in 100%

The dividend strategy will work in a bear market when the high volatility is removed, but the volume of trades is high with a lower GP/trade.  If there is a gradual downtrend it has always worked for me.


----------



## rozella (3 March 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought ABC today @ 343.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 120.05/share
exdiv 6th March
Dividend 9.0/share fully franked
Special dividend 3.5/share


----------



## rozella (6 March 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold ABC today @ 342.0
Bought 3rd March @ 342.0 with a margin of 65% (previously said 343.0..mistake)
Investment 119.70/share
exdiv 6th March (today)
Dividend 9.0/share fully franked
Special dividend 3.5/share
Gross profit 12.5/share = 10.44% return on investment.  3 days


----------



## rozella (7 March 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought WOW today@ 2880.0 with a margin of 80%
Investment 576.0/share
Exdiv 20th March
Dividend 44.0/share fully franked 18.86/share.


----------



## rozella (7 March 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought WOW today@ 2880.0 with a margin of 80%
Investment 576.0/share
Exdiv 20th March
Dividend 44.0/share fully franked 18.86/share.


----------



## rozella (17 March 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold WOW 12th March @ 2890.2
Bought 7th March @ 2880.0 with a margin of 80%
Investment 576.0/share
Exdiv 20th March
Dividend 44.0/share fully franked 18.86/share.
Gross profit 10.2/share = 1.77% return on investment.   5 days

Bought WOW today @ 2650.0 with a margin of 80%
Investment 530.0/share
Exdiv 20th March
Dividend 44.0/share fully franked 18.86/share.
Sold today @ 2677.0/share
Gross profit 27.0/share = 5.09% return on investment.  0.5 days

Bought WOW today @ 2639.8 with a margin of 80%
Investment 527.96/share
Exdiv 20th March
Dividend 44.0/share fully franked 18.86/share.
Sold today @ 2685.0/share
Gross profit 45.2/share = 8.56% return on investment.  0.5 days

Bought ABC today @ 319.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 111.65/share
Post dividend


----------



## rozella (18 March 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold ABC today @ 333.0
Bought 17th March @ 319.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 111.65/share
Post dividend
Gross profit 14.0/share = 12.54% return on investment.  1 day


----------



## rozella (18 March 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought ABC today @ av 318.2 with a margin of 65%
Investment 111.37/share
Post dividend


----------



## Fool (18 March 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



rozella said:


> Bought ABC today @ av 318.2 with a margin of 65%
> Investment 111.37/share
> Post dividend





looking good rozella, has the current market conditions changed how you trade pre crash/bear?


----------



## rozella (18 March 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Fool,



> ......has the current market conditions changed how you trade pre crash/bear?



Yes certainly.....I sold out of all stocks by 9th January & since then have only been trading 1 or 2 dividend stocks at any one time for the short term, selling prior to exdiv date.

ABC has been exceptionally good as most days it ranges about 15 cents which was more than the dividend....can't always pick top & bottom though.  I have been cautious with the size of parcels & don't always sit in the que.

Could be a long haul before market will eventually plateau, so in the meantime I will just concentrate on a few that fit my strategy.


----------



## rozella (19 March 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold ABC today @ 333.0
Bought 18th March @ av 318.2 with a margin of 65%
Investment 111.37/share
Post dividend
Gross profit 14.8/share = 13.29% return on investment.  1 day


----------



## JTLP (19 March 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Rozella,

Have you ever made a loss out of your trading scheme?

And whats your tax bill like lol


----------



## rozella (19 March 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



JTLP said:


> Rozella,
> 
> Have you ever made a loss out of your trading scheme?
> 
> And whats your tax bill like lol



I have made quite a few sizeable losses over the last 10 years due to my own stupid mistakes but overall in any 12 month period since I have been dividend trading I have had reasonable returns.  This FY year is not so good but still should be positive.

Tax is a fact of life if you earn profits, but with planning & utilising some franking credits, one can limit this, however, they may have to pay me this year.


----------



## rozella (20 March 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered ABC today @ 319.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 111.65/share
Post dividend


----------



## rozella (25 March 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold ABC today @ 329.0
Bought 20th March @ 319.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 111.65/share
Post dividend
Gross profit 10.0/share = 8.96% return on investment.  5 days


----------



## rozella (27 March 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought DJS today @ 355.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 106.50/share
Exdiv 4th April
Dividend declared 11.0/share fully franked 4.71/share


----------



## rozella (28 March 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold DJS today @ 367.0
Bought 27th March @ 355.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 106.50/share
Exdiv 4th April
Dividend declared 11.0/share fully franked 4.71/share
Gross profit 12.0/share = 11.27% return on investment.  1 day


----------



## rozella (31 March 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered DJS today @ 356.2 with a margin of 70%
Investment 106.86/share
Exdiv 4th April
Dividend declared 11.0/share fully franked 4.71/share


----------



## rozella (31 March 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold DJS today @ 370.0
Bought today @ 356.2 with a margin of 70%
Investment 106.86/share
Exdiv 4th April
Dividend declared 11.0/share fully franked 4.71/share
Gross profit 13.8/share = 12.91% return on investment.  0.5 days


----------



## rozella (2 April 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought SGN today @ 227.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 79.45/share
Exdiv 10th April
Dividend declared 7.2/share fully franked 3.09/share


----------



## Fool (2 April 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

hey, are you still holding wow?


----------



## rozella (2 April 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



Fool said:


> hey, are you still holding wow?



No, I had sold all my stocks by the 9th January & am now just trading 1 or 2 dividend stocks at a time until the market shows some real direction.


----------



## rozella (6 April 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought BOQ on Friday (4th April)@ 1690.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 507.0/share
Dividend announcement is expected to be 10th April
Exdiv is expected to be 28th April
Last years dividend was 32.0/share fully franked.


----------



## rozella (9 April 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold SGN today @ 229.0
Bought 2nd April @ 227.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 79.45/share
Exdiv 10th April
Dividend declared 7.2/share fully franked 3.09/share
Gross profit 2.0/share = 2.52% return on investment.  7 days

No faith after exdiv


----------



## rozella (10 April 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought DJS today @ 350.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 105.0/share
Post dividend on the 4th April
Dividend was 11.0/share fully franked


----------



## rozella (18 April 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought DXS yesterday @ 161.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 40.25/unit
Exdist expected about 24th June
Distribution last year was 5.7/unit zero franked.

The intention is to sell when it rises the distribution amount......hopefully a few times.....it ranges the distribution amount most days.


----------



## rozella (21 April 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold DJS today on the close @ 360.0
Bought 10th April @ 350.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 105.0/share
Post dividend on the 4th April
Dividend was 11.0/share fully franked
Gross profit 10.0/share = 9.52% return on investment.  11 days


----------



## rozella (24 April 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold DXS today on the open @ 168.0
Bought 18th April @ 161.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 40.25/unit
Exdist expected about 24th June
Distribution last year was 5.7/unit zero franked.
Gross Profit 7.0/unit = 17.39% return on investment.  6 days


----------



## rozella (24 April 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered DJS today @ 346.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 103.8/share
Post dividend on the 4th April
Dividend was 11.0/share fully franked


----------



## rozella (28 April 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold DJS today @ 360.0 
Bought 24th April @ 346.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 103.8/share
Post dividend on the 4th April
Dividend was 11.0/share fully franked
Gross profit 14.0/share = 13.487%  4 days


----------



## rozella (29 April 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered DJS today @ 349.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 104.70/share
Post dividend on the 4th April
Dividend was 11.0/share fully franked


----------



## rozella (2 May 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold DJS today @ 360.0
Bought 29th April @ 349.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 104.70/share
Post dividend on the 4th April
Dividend was 11.0/share fully franked
Gross profit 11.0/share = 10.51% return on investment.  3 days.


----------



## shaunnell (2 May 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Wow, you sure are beating DJS up


----------



## rozella (3 May 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

DJS has been a good one....so has ABC but I have not been posting it lately as it is well past its exdiv date now, however, I have been still trading between its highs & lows.


----------



## rozella (7 May 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought WBC today @ 2495.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 623.75/share
Exdiv 19th May
Dividend declared 70.0/share fully franked 30.0/share


----------



## rozella (9 May 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold WBC today @ 2595.0
Bought 7th May @ 2495.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 623.75/share
Exdiv 19th May
Dividend declared 70.0/share fully franked 30.0/share
Gross profit 100.0/share = 16.03% return on investment.  2 days


----------



## rozella (12 May 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered DJS today @ 349.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 104.7/share
Post dividend on the 4th April
Dividend was 11.0/share fully franked.


----------



## rozella (13 May 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Finally sold BOQ today @ 1702.0
Bought 4th April @ 1690.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 507.0/share
Exdiv 28th April
Dividend declared 35.0/share fully franked 15.0/share
Gross profit 47.0/share = 9.27% return on investment.  39 days


----------



## j4mesa (13 May 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Don,

How are you going ?
in CFD , I am thinking of shorting WBC and long on SGB before their ex-div date..

reason being is WBC is fully franked dividend while it is getting dilution as merger with SGB.
While SGB is retaining it value from SGB even though it eill be giving out dividends.....

I see the pair of them would be great.....what do you think ?

Regards,

James Agus


----------



## rozella (14 May 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day James,



> How are you going ?



Never felt better....we are 'trading & travelling' for the next 2 months....we are at Wellington NSW beside the river atm.



> in CFD , I am thinking of shorting WBC and long on SGB before their ex-div date..
> 
> reason being is WBC is fully franked dividend while it is getting dilution as merger with SGB.
> While SGB is retaining it value from SGB even though it eill be giving out dividends.....
> ...



I am not an expert in pairs trading, but you will have the WBC dividend of 70 cents deducted from your account if you short & the SGB dividend of 88 cents added, giving a net gain 18 cents dividend.  It is not my way of trading so maybe others would have a more constructive opinion.  I was just waiting for the budget last night for market reaction before I make my choice.

Well done for those that were holding SGB last Friday.


----------



## rozella (14 May 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought WBC today @ 2476.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 619.0/share
Exdiv 19th May
Dividend declared 70.0/share fully franked 30.0/share


----------



## rozella (15 May 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought NAB today on the open @ 3365.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 841.25/share
Exdiv 30th May
Dividend declared 97.0/share fully franked 41.57/share

Bought CFX today on the open @ 217.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 54.25/unit
Exdist expected 24th June
Last years distribution was 5.9/unit zero franked

Sold DJS today @ 361.0/share
Bought 12th May @ 349.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 104.7/share
Post dividend on the 4th April
Dividend was 11.0/share fully franked.
Gross profit 12.0/share = 11.46% return on investment. 3 days


----------



## andy87 (15 May 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Rozella, this might be a really newb question (havent even heard of dividend caputuring until today) and you dont hve to answer,but what is your annual return minus capital gains?


----------



## rozella (15 May 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day andy87,

Returns on working capital over the last 10 years vary quite a bit but usually between 30% to 50% which includes dividends less brokerage & interest, however, this year has been quite different which places me about square atm, so I have until the 30th June to profit providing the market does not blow up again.  Business running expenses are additional but considerable.

I was out of the market for about a month as at 9th January l & have been only dabbling with a few stocks after that as you can see on my posts.

With being a trader I don't have capital gain/loss accounts.


----------



## rozella (15 May 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Had a hiccup executing a buy order today which I did not realise that I had purchased twice until after close when I looked at the contracts.....hasn't happened for a long time.

Bought CPA today @ 137.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 41.1/unit
Exdist expected 24th June
Last years distribution was 4.87/unit zero franked

Bought CPA today @ 137.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 41.1/unit
Exdist expected 24th June
Last years distribution was 4.87/unit zero franked

rozella


----------



## j4mesa (15 May 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



rozella said:


> G'day James,
> Never felt better....we are 'trading & travelling' for the next 2 months....we are at Wellington NSW beside the river atm.




Wow.....how enjoyable !!!
trading while travelling.....I wish I could do that one day 

anyway thank you for your opinion.....
I will see how it goes....


----------



## andy87 (16 May 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



rozella said:


> G'day andy87,
> 
> Returns on working capital over the last 10 years vary quite a bit but usually between 30% to 50% which includes dividends less brokerage & interest, however, this year has been quite different which places me about square atm, so I have until the 30th June to profit providing the market does not blow up again.  Business running expenses are additional but considerable.
> 
> ...




Thanks rozella, your respones gives me a good indication as to what sort of gains are achievable through dividend capturing.  Ill probs investigate further to gain as much knowledge as i can about the subject


----------



## rozella (19 May 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought DXS today @ 160.5 with a margin of 75%
Investment 40.125/unit
exdiv expected 24th June 
Last years distribution was 5.7/unit zero franked

Bought SGP today @ 635.0 with a margin of 80%
Investment 127.0/unit
exdiv expected 24th June 
Last years distribution was 22.8/unit 20.65% franked 2.02/unit


----------



## white_goodman (27 May 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

this thread is really informative thanks rozella, i might give this dividend trading thing a go to learn the ropes


----------



## white_goodman (27 May 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

what sort of stop loss is a rule of thumb with say a 50% margin? when the share price goes down 5%? when the share price goes down 3 consecutive trading days? yes im a beginner dont be too harsh.....


----------



## roland (14 June 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



rozella said:


> Bought WBC today @ 2476.0 with a margin of 75%
> Investment 619.0/share
> Exdiv 19th May
> Dividend declared 70.0/share fully franked 30.0/share




hey Rozella, notice that WBC hasn't played the game this time 'round. I picked up a little cheaper than you did, but it's a long time recovering - you haven't posted in a while ... hope you are doing OK


----------



## rozella (16 June 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day roland & white_goodman,

Still holding WBC.  I have not been trading much over the last 6 months & only partially in the market, so have been cruising around inland NSW in the 5th wheeler for the past 2 months....parked overlooking a lake at Griffith atm for the night.

The market was very ordinary today considering the DOW was up 165 points....at least most of the LPTs were up nicely today.


----------



## roland (16 June 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



rozella said:


> G'day roland & white_goodman,
> 
> Still holding WBC.  I have not been trading much over the last 6 months & only partially in the market, so have been cruising around inland NSW in the 5th wheeler for the past 2 months....parked overlooking a lake at Griffith atm for the night.
> 
> The market was very ordinary today considering the DOW was up 165 points....at least most of the LPTs were up nicely today.




Glad to hear you are taking it easy Rozella 

A bit hard chasing dividends at the moment in this falling market, the SP isn't recovering post ex-div as well as it used to.

You have us all jealous Rozella - sittin' there beside the lake - keep safe!


----------



## rozella (8 August 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought WDC today @ 1655.0 with a margin of 80% 
Investment 331.0/unit
Exdist date 11th August
Distribution 53.25/unit zero franked


----------



## roland (8 August 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

hey rozella, Westpac nearly back from where you bought it. You going to hold for next div or trash it?


----------



## rozella (8 August 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Roland,

I sold WBC along with all my other holdings prior to end of FY (all losses).....only held about 4 stocks at that time.

WDC today is my only purchase since then (dividend related)


----------



## rozella (11 August 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold WDC today on the open @ 1690.0
Bought 8th August @ 1655.0 with a margin of 80% 
Investment 331.0/unit
Exdist date 11th August
Distribution 53.25/unit zero franked
Gross profit 88.25/unit = 26.66% return on investment.  3 days


----------



## roland (11 August 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



rozella said:


> Sold WDC today on the open @ 1690.0
> Bought 8th August @ 1655.0 with a margin of 80%
> Investment 331.0/unit
> Exdist date 11th August
> ...




well done rozella, it's not usual for the SP not to fall by the div value on the day of going ex div - good call


----------



## rozella (11 August 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thanks roland,

.....& thankyou to the US market on Friday night.


----------



## rozella (13 August 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought HIL today @ average 383.74/share with a margin of 65%
Investment 134.31/share
Exdiv date 9th September
Dividend 14.0/share fully franked 6.0/share


----------



## Ferret (14 August 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Glad to see you're back in the market, Rosella.  Gives me a bit of confidence that things won't go completely pear shaped.

Good luck!

Ferret


----------



## rozella (14 August 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Thanks for the comment Ferret.

Sold HIL today @ average 399. 87/share
Bought 13th August @ average 383.74/share with a margin of 65%
Investment 134.31/share
Exdiv date 9th September
Dividend 14.0/share fully franked 6.0/share
Gross profit 16.13/share = 12.01% return on investment.  1 day


----------



## rozella (19 August 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought CBA today @ 4150.0 on the open with a margin of 75%
Investment 1037.5/share
Post dividend which was 153.0/share fully franked on the 18th August.


----------



## Fool (19 August 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hey Rozella,

Do you need to hold CBA for 45 days to get the franking credits? 
if you bought on the 18th.



rozella said:


> Bought CBA today @ 4150.0 on the open with a margin of 75%
> Investment 1037.5/share
> Post dividend which was 153.0/share fully franked on the 18th August.


----------



## brty (19 August 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Fool,

Rozella bought X-div not cum-div.

brty


----------



## Fool (19 August 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

yeah thanks,  just saw that.

but if he bought before the 18th.?? 




brty said:


> Fool,
> 
> Rozella bought X-div not cum-div.
> 
> brty


----------



## rozella (19 August 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day fool,

brty is correct, I bought post dividend.

To answer your question if I had bought prior to the 18th:
To be eligible for the franking credits, I would need to hold for a clear 45 days from when I bought them excluding the buy & sell days, unless your total franking credits for the year are less than $5000 (for an individual).

If your total franking credits are less than $5000, then the holding time is not important, but go to $5001 & you will forfeit all franking credits that don't comply with the rule.


----------



## Fool (20 August 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Yeah sweet, been doing some reading on it, so is your strategy put you over the $5k threshold? 

Take this example how do I work out the franking credits I would receive?

44cent * 30% =13.2cent? 

44c 100% Interim 44C FR@30% DRP NIL DISC. MAX CAP@20000

What does MAX CAP mean?

Was taken from here
http://www.asx.com.au/asx/research/...panyName=&principalActivity=&industryGroup=NO


Going to sign up for the trial rozella, just waiting on tax refund and get my head around this.


----------



## rozella (20 August 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Fool,

Calculation of franking credits on a 44 cent dividend:

examples
100% franked: 44.0 x 0.42857 = 18.857/share
60% franked: 44.0 x 0.42857 x 0.60 = 11.314/share
30% franked: 44.0 x 0.42857 x 0.30 = 5.657/share

Companies pay 30% tax, so if a gross dividend was 100 cents, they would pay 30 cents tax leaving a nett dividend of 70 cents.

.......hence 30 divided by 70 = 0.428757  We are quoted the nett dividend, so just multiply the nett dividend by 0.42857 depending if fully franked (taxed) to calculate the franking credit.


----------



## white_goodman (20 August 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

does the 45 day rule apply for CFD's...

say i bought on the 25th of august and the ex-div date was 26th of august....and then i sold 27th of august...


do i still get the dividend franking credits etc if im going long through CFD's? there any fines/taxes for holding so short?


----------



## rozella (20 August 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



white_goodman said:


> does the 45 day rule apply for CFD's...
> 
> say i bought on the 25th of august and the ex-div date was 26th of august....and then i sold 27th of august...
> 
> ...



G'day white_goodman,

Just about all CFD providers don't compensate for franking credits, therefore the 45 day rule will not apply....the rule is only for franking credits.

CFD providers pay the dividend on exdiv day anyway.

You could have bought on the close on 25th Aug & sold on the open 26th Aug (exdiv day) & be entitled to the dividend amount whether they are CFDs or whatever.

If you go short with CFDs, the provider will deduct the dividend amount from your account.  Franking credits don't come into the equation.


----------



## Fool (20 August 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I am with ya now, thanks for explain, 

So if my tax payable(TAX OWED) amount was $10000 

And the tax I paid was also $10000(TAX PAID), excluding all other factors… 

I would be even (no tax return), however if I have say had $5000 franking credits.

The tax I paid figure would increases to $15000??

So the minus the TAX PAID – TAX OWED = REFUND

I would get a $5k refund.

This sound right?


----------



## rozella (20 August 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Fool,

You are almost correct except the franking credit is also classed as income.

Example 1:
If your taxable income was $50,000 & you had say $8000 allowable franking credits, then your taxable income now becomes $58,000

I don't know the tax rate for $58,000, but lets say it is 30% for the exercise.
Therefore your tax payable would be 58000 x 0.3 = $17,400

Then you deduct the franking credit of $8000

$17,400 - $8,000 = $9,400 tax payable

Example 2:
If your taxable income was $10,000 & you had say $8000 allowable franking credits, then your taxable income now becomes $18,000

I don't know the tax rate for $18,000, but lets say it is 13% for the exercise.
Therefore your tax payable would be $18000 x 0.13 = $2,340

Then you deduct the franking credit of $8000

$2,340 - $8,000 = -$5,660 tax refund


----------



## Fool (20 August 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

sweet I get ya thanks  make sense now



rozella said:


> G'day Fool,
> 
> You are almost correct except the franking credit is also classed as income.
> 
> ...


----------



## rozella (21 August 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold CBA today @ 4065.0
Bought 19th August @ 4150.0 on the open with a margin of 75%
Investment 1037.5/share
Post dividend which was 153.0/share fully franked on the 18th August.
Gross loss 85.0/share = 8.19% loss on investment.

Bought HIL on the close @ 392.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 137.2/share
Exdiv 9th September
Dividend declared 14.0/share fully franked 6.0/share


----------



## rozella (25 August 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold HIL today @ average 417.85/share
Bought 21st August @ 392.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 137.2/share
Exdiv 9th September
Dividend declared 14.0/share fully franked 6.0/share
Gross profit 25.82/share = 18.84% return on investment.

Will re-enter if opportunity arises.


----------



## badman_thelame (27 August 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi all,

I have also been trying to attempt a dividend strategy, but to limited success in this bearish market.

I'm not sure if this will work, but I think you guys can tell me where the flaws are in the plan im going to outline below.

I normally trade in CFD's and the leverage can be both a benefit and more of a risk at times.

If I buy a parcel of 1000 shares in say any security which is going to go ex-dividend tomorrow.

Can I also hedge the losses with say a put option at the price which I bought the CFD's.

From what I know, since there can be a near perfect hedge, the only losses should be the brokerage for the CFD's and the premium paid on the option.

Am I missing anything here, and any comments will be greatly appreciated.


----------



## brty (27 August 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Badman,

I think you will notice that the put prices already have the dividend/drop in share price factored in. Hence they have more premium than calls in the nearest traded month. The further you go out in time, that premium reduces/inverts.

brty


----------



## schrutzen (27 August 2008)

*the stock is like a waterbag that leaks*

actually it does since most of the profits wont go back to the business for expansion or other investments dividends are a great way to attract investors who are looking for fixed income... if you want steady growth get stocks that doesnt pay out dividends and has a great balance sheet...  

http://www.econtrader.com  or http://www.investopedia.com and http://stocks.about.com should help newbies out there.


----------



## Sir Osisofliver (28 August 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,

Back in '02 I also used a dividend trading strategy that I built myself. I found that whilst the market was directionless it was a very valuable strategy. (near 45% p.a. return).

I read the first few interesting pages in this thread, and _briefly_ looked at your website and a notice some significant differences between our approaches and would like to discuss them with you here in the thread. So as not to make this a monster of a post I'll just ask one question/ Make one comment at a time.

1) One of the things that I would always check with a target for the strategy would be the size of the _individual_ dividend compared to the total dividend. Many companies pay a significantly higher final or interim dividend which can distort the level of return in favour of a dividend trading strategy. *For example *Wesfarmers pays a significantly higher final dividend of $1.35 compared to the latest interim dividend of 0.65 so whilst the overall yield on Wesfarmers (ignoring franking credits) is 6.40% (2.00/31.24) the final dividend is  67.5% of the total yield. I can hold the stock therefore for 47 days and take over 2/3rds of the yearly dividend.  

Comments?

Sir O


----------



## rozella (28 August 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Sir Osisofliver,

I am happy to discuss dividend trading also preferring one item at a time.



> 1) One of the things that I would always check with a target for the strategy would be the size of the individual dividend compared to the total dividend. Many companies pay a significantly higher final or interim dividend which can distort the level of return in favour of a dividend trading strategy. For example Wesfarmers pays a significantly higher final dividend of $1.35 compared to the latest interim dividend of 0.65 so whilst the overall yield on Wesfarmers (ignoring franking credits) is 6.40% (2.00/31.24) the final dividend is 67.5% of the total yield. I can hold the stock therefore for 47 days and take over 2/3rds of the yearly dividend.



Quite true, however, the exdividendwatchlist covers this by selecting from the high yielding stocks for the reporting period at the time.  The stocks & yield ratios are boxed on the list for stocks that show a yield (including marginlending) of 10% or over for the current dividend period & that have reasonable volume.

WES is a good example as at close on the 25th August(day before exdiv) it was 3255.0 & with a dividend of 135.0 fully franked using marginlending, it showed a gross return of 23.7% on investment, providing that it is also sold for 3255.0.  It is down today atm at 3135.0

These boxed stocks are not recommendations, but just filter the list for a personal watchlist from which an order of priority can be selected.

I rarely hold a stock for more than 29 days average, so franking credits are rarely earned especially in this volatile market.


----------



## Sir Osisofliver (29 August 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

rozella

Thanks for the response.

I see this as being a major diffential between the two strategies. The focus of my strategy was the dividend income rather than the capital gain. The goal was to have a relatively small amount of capital gain, and use the franking credits to achieve a tax advantaged income stream. - This probably accounts for the major differences that I see between the two strategies. And hence my comments below...

2) Rotaions and portfolio approach - '02 wasn't exactly a picnic either in terms of direction or volatility. A basic tenet of investing is to use diversification to spread the risk. So given that my goal was the dividend income rather than the capital gains, I targeted 6 rotations during a yearly period. (60 days each) with each rotation having no more than 5 stocks. So finding 5 stocks that went exdiv within a week of each other. The reason for a 60 day rotation was that I was targeting stocks based on historical dividend information and would exit on ex-div day. (meaning I had to have held it for 47 days on the ex date 45 day holding rule not including the date of purchase or sale). By using several stocks in a single rotation I spread the risk of any single investment performing poorly in a rotation. Each rotation _*averaged*_ only 8% - but cumulatively gave me a 45% return.

Question - I couldn't see any portfolio approach in what you've said. Would you consider the use of a portfolio approach to lower risk for anyone attempting a less risky approach?

Sir O


----------



## rozella (30 August 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Sir Osisofliver,

It does not matter to me whether I capture the actual dividend or an equal amount through price rise, as a trader, both are accounted to income.

I prefer to sell prior to exdiv if possible as I then have my profit plus my capital ready for the next deal.

I do not allow franking credits to control my trading.....when I believe my target is maximised I sell as this can be risky waiting to comply with the 45 day rule.  The example of WES....franking credit was 57.86/share.....the risk of price drop is high while waiting to reach the holding rule

WES Last Ten Days					
29-Aug-2008  3080	
28-Aug-2008  3166	
27-Aug-2008  3165	
*26-Aug-2008  3100*  exdiv day	
25-Aug-2008  3255	
22-Aug-2008  3195	
21-Aug-2008  3290	
20-Aug-2008  3455	
19-Aug-2008  3427	
18-Aug-2008  3465

Just trying to understand the number of trades that you are doing per year from your post.....is it 30 maximum ?  Is trading your prime occupation ?



> Question - I couldn't see any portfolio approach in what you've said.



Thats correct.  In a normal market I would have between 10 & 15 stocks at any one time in various sections of the dividend cycle all year, however in the present market it is a more cautious hit & run approach with only 1 to 3 stocks using no more that 10% of my trading capital.



> Would you consider the use of a portfolio approach to lower risk for anyone attempting a less risky approach?



I don't attempt to influence anyone with a particular trading strategy as this is upto each individual trader to develop their own......we all have different levels of risk & trading expectations.  I do have a basic EOD portfolio on my website, but that is just to show that there is some merit in trading cum-dividend stocks....the EOD is so prices can easily be tracked & verified.

I have been trading the dividend strategy as my prime source of income for a little over 10 years now & am comfortable with it.  I still make plenty of wrong decisions & am doing my best to minimise them.


----------



## r34ztune (31 August 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

hi roz,
great thread, keep up the posting. 1 question, does this strategy replace your income, in other words, do you do this full-time? or have another job on the side? 
keep up the good work


----------



## rozella (1 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



r34ztune said:


> hi roz,
> great thread, keep up the posting. 1 question, does this strategy replace your income, in other words, do you do this full-time? or have another job on the side?
> keep up the good work



I've been trading full time for the past 12 years & have been trading cum-dividend stocks for the last 10 years.  My only other job is that I like golf....just on my way now for 12 holes.....back before open.  I also occupy some time producing the http://www.exdividendwatchlist.com.au


----------



## Sir Osisofliver (1 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella, thanks for the response - How was the golf game?



rozella said:


> I do not allow franking credits to control my trading.....when I believe my target is maximised I sell as this can be risky waiting to comply with the 45 day rule.  The example of WES....franking credit was 57.86/share.....the risk of price drop is high while waiting to reach the holding rule




There was a number of rules that I had when evaluating a stock for it's potential in the strategy. Most of which were designed to reduce the risk of getting a dud  and complying with the 45 day holding rule - EG portfolio approach towards transactions. I'll cover off against these rules that I had as we go forward, but as I said in my first response I didn't want to type a monster of a post 



> Just trying to understand the number of trades that you are doing per year from your post.....is it 30 maximum ?  Is trading your prime occupation ?




As I said in my first post I'm reminiscing about a strategy I employed back during the last correction of the market. I little bit about me.....I'm an *ex* stockbroker. Currently trading is not my prime occupation - for a number of reasons.

Ok so as I said one of the things that I would do in my strategy (Given that I wanted/needed the franking credits), was to purchase the stock so that I was able to exit on the day it went ex-div. But how did I evaluate the stock to lower the risk? I had a list of rules that I would structly follow and here are the first of them.

1) History - As I said in my previous post - Its possible to have a company pay an unequal final or interum dividend. If the company has a trackable history of doing so they would get a point under my system. If the company has a ten year history of paying dividends consistently that would also get them a point.

2) Size of Individual dividend - The individual dividend needed to be larger than 5% ungrossed. Anything smaller than this and the costs of transaction could be detrimental to the exercise. The larger the dividend the better. One point for above 5% div.

3) Liquidity - If a target met the above three characteristics, I would generally look a little deeper (it wasn't that hard as remember I would be targeting those stocks in 60 day rotations and wanted stocks that would go ex-div within a week of each other). So I'd only be looking at about 20 stocks max. I would go look at course of sales data of the previous year when the stock had gone ex dividend and determine how liquid the stock was previously. If on the day of exdiv the stock had a liquidity of 50% or greater of a monthly average it would get a point. I would also check out the registry number and major holders (if any). If any of the stocks had a substantial long term shareholder holding that hadthe potential to reduce the liquidity that would lose them a point.

This post is turning into a monster I'll leave it there for now and come back later when I have some time.

Sir O,


----------



## rozella (5 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought AMP today @ 700.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 125.0/share
Exdiv 15th September
Dividend declared 22.0/share 85% franked 8.01/share
Special dividend declared 2.0/share 85% franked 0.73/share


----------



## ceasar73 (5 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,

I really enjoy your posts. What are the common attributes of the companies in which you make a profit from? What makes company A's dividends more attractive than company B's? when buying.

Thanks,

Ceasar73.


----------



## rozella (6 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



ceasar73 said:


> Hi Rozella,
> 
> I really enjoy your posts. What are the common attributes of the companies in which you make a profit from? What makes company A's dividends more attractive than company B's? when buying.
> 
> ...



My strategy is based on *The lure of the dividend, gives a stock a reason to rise* but in saying that, the probability is higher if the stock has an increased dividend, increased profit & a good outlook for the future.....but don't coun't on it.


----------



## rozella (8 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold AMP today @ 741.0
Bought 5th September @ 700.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 125.0/share
Exdiv 15th September
Dividend declared 22.0/share 85% franked 8.01/share
Special dividend declared 2.0/share 85% franked 0.73/share
Gross profit 41.0/share = 32.8% return on investment.  3 days


----------



## ceasar73 (9 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Roz,You seem to be doing what no one else is at present....winning!
Long live rozella!

ceasar73.


----------



## rozella (10 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day ceasar73,

My trades have been few & far between.....I have been over cautious.....I need much more to remain profitable.

XAO bouncing between 4800 & 5200.....we just need to be in synch.

SPI down 160.0 atm, so maybe able to re-enter AMP + something else at lower prices.


----------



## rozella (10 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought BBG on the open today @ 1314.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 394.2/share
Exdiv 22nd September
Dividend declared 28.5/share fully franked 12.21/share


----------



## rozella (12 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold BBG on the close today @ 1345.0
Bought 10th September on the open @ 1314.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 394.2/share
Exdiv 22nd September
Dividend declared 28.5/share fully franked 12.21/share
Gross profit 31.0/share = 7.86% return on investment. 2 days


----------



## rozella (15 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought CAB today @ 686.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 240.1/share
Exdiv 23rd September
Dividend declared 17.0/share fully franked 7.29/share


----------



## rozella (15 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered BBG today @ 1315.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 394.5/share
Exdiv 22nd September
Dividend declared 28.5/share fully franked 12.21/share


----------



## rozella (15 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold BBG today @ 1349.0
Bought today @ 1315.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 394.5/share
Exdiv 22nd September
Dividend declared 28.5/share fully franked 12.21/share
Gross profit 34.0/share = 8.61% return on investment.  1 day


----------



## rozella (16 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Been travelling around today, however, placed a buy order for BBG before market open @ 1315.0 & was filled during the morning.....no time to post.

Re-entered BBG today @ 1315.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 394.5/share
Exdiv 22nd September
Dividend declared 28.5/share fully franked 12.21/share
Sold on the close today @ 1331.0 
Gross profit 16.0/share = 4.04% return on investment.

Missed selling CAB today @ 700.0 to 705.0...forgot to place order.


----------



## rozella (17 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold CAB on the open today @ 710.0
Bought 15th September @ 686.0 with a margin of 65%
Investment 240.1/share
Exdiv 23rd September
Dividend declared 17.0/share fully franked 7.29/share
Gross profit 24.0/share = 10.00% return on investment.  2 days

BBG surged ahead on the open, but better to be safe than sorry in this market.


----------



## rozella (17 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered BBG today @ 1314.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 394.2/share
Exdiv 22nd September
Dividend declared 28.5/share fully franked 12.21/share


----------



## michael_selway (17 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



rozella said:


> Sold CAB on the open today @ 710.0
> Bought 15th September @ 686.0 with a margin of 65%
> Investment 240.1/share
> Exdiv 23rd September
> ...




Hm so in a bear market this "Dividend Strategy" doesnt work well would you advise?

thx

MS


----------



## rozella (17 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



> Hm so in a bear market this "Dividend Strategy" doesnt work well would you advise? thx
> 
> MS



I'm quite happy with the strategy Michael, especially this August & September.

Is there a problem with my post that you quoted, that prompted you to comment, other than not picking the tops & bottoms ?


----------



## Fool (18 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi rozella

are you in BSL ?? current $7.770

Dividend Type Cents Per Share Franked % Ex-Dividend Date Pay Date 
Final 27.00 100 22 Sep, 08 22 Oct, 08


----------



## rozella (18 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Fool,



> are you in BSL ?? current $7.770



No the chart makes me nervous.


----------



## rozella (18 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold out of BBG today @ & will try & buy cheaper.

Sold BBG today @ 1325.0
Bought 17th September @ 1314.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 394.2/share
Exdiv 22nd September
Dividend declared 28.5/share fully franked 12.21/share
Gross profit 11.0/share = 2.79% return on investment.


----------



## ceasar73 (18 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



michael_selway said:


> Hm so in a bear market this "Dividend Strategy" doesnt work well would you advise?
> 
> thx
> 
> MS




Not sure what your on about here MS, looks to be like roz doing better than 99% of us


----------



## rozella (18 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered BBG on the close today @ 1293.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 387.9/share
Exdiv 22nd September
Dividend declared 28.5/share fully franked 12.21/share


----------



## rozella (19 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold BBG today @ 1350.0
Bought 18th September on the close @ 1293.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 387.9/share
Exdiv 22nd September
Dividend declared 28.5/share fully franked 12.21/share
Gross profit 57.0/share = 14.69% return on investment.  1 day


----------



## brty (19 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Rozella,

I've been following this thread for a while and have been wondering if you had ever bothered to work out what % of your gains were due to just chart reading, ie the buying/selling component compared to the dividend strategy component.

From what I have observed is that the buying/selling criteria you have (like bbg yesterday/today) would have worked on many stocks that have not declared a dividend, plus there are many stocks that do declare dividends that you don't apply this strategy to. 

The ones you leave out I can only assume it is because of a 'poor' chart pattern (or some other reason). If you are therefore selective in the stocks you adapt this strategy to, then how do you separate out the 'chart reading' from the 'dividend strategy', and the respective performance of each.

brty


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## rozella (19 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day brty,

I don't usually buy/sell any stocks without at least eyeballing a chart & use a tick movement chart in the leadup to the trade.

I select my stocks from the exdividendwatchlist that with marginlending have a yield of 10% plus for the current dividend payment.  Also in this volatile market I pay more attention to those stocks that report an increased profit, increased dividend & a good outlook for the future.  As well as that criteria, I also like to trade those stocks that range the dividend amount most days.

CAB & CWN are also reasonable for me.....while I fiddled around this morning, I missed the jump on CWN & has escaped for the moment....I had planned on entering around 800.0....now 835.0

You are quite right that most stocks have had a nice rise today which are not necessarily cum-dividend, but I have had nice wins for the last 6 trading days when the market was only up 2 days including today.  I am a creature of habit & stay with the strategy that has served me best....not everyones 'cup of tea'

Basically I work on the principle *The lure of the dividend, gives a stock a reason to rise*

Look at BBG now, it has risen to 1371.0 (another 21.0 after I sold) ......it goes exdiv on Monday.  It was slow this morning so I sold & thought I might be able to re-enter if it dropped a bit.....no worries we will move on.


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## brty (19 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella,

You may not have got the meaning of my question.

I was asking about if you have statistically studied the performance of this part...



> I don't usually buy/sell any stocks without at least eyeballing a chart & use a tick movement chart in the leadup to the trade.



....

but on stocks that are not in the dividend period. That is, how does the performance compare between the 2??

brty


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## rozella (19 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day brty,

As I mentioned, I am a creature of habit & only trade cum-dividend stocks & stay away from the rest.  After about a week after they go exdiv, I don't consider them anymore until the next round of dividends

So no....at least not for the last 10 years anyway.

Good exercise for you


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## rozella (23 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought CWN on the open today @ 815.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 203.75/share
exdiv 3rd October
Dividend declared 29.0/share 40% franked 4.97/share


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## rozella (23 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold CWN today @ 838.0....am on the road atm.....batteries on laptop depleted so found a campspot for tonight near the Murrumbidgee River & now have the genset running.
Bought on the open today @ 815.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 203.75/share
exdiv 3rd October
Dividend declared 29.0/share 40% franked 4.97/share
Gross profit 23.0/share = 11.29% return on investment.  1 day

Bought SIP today @ 131.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 39.3/share
exdiv 30th September
Dividend declared 3.0/share fully franked 1.277/share


----------



## rozella (29 September 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought DJS today @440.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 132.0/share
Exdiv 3rd October
Dividend 16.0/share fully franked 6.86/share


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## Bin57again (2 October 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Rozella
Why is DJS trading volume light today? Would have thought it would be heavier given exdiv tomorrow + about 10% drop in last few days (seems like a vanilla pullback to me) + it's weathered the recent turbulence well.
What are your thoughts?
Bin


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## rozella (2 October 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Bin,

Don't Know.....there has not been any announcements re DJS.

I set my orders today & was away from the screen for most of the day. DJS was disappointing but I managed the following trades.

Sold SIP today @ 133.0
Bought 23rd September @ 131.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 39.3/share
exdiv 30th September
Dividend declared 3.0/share fully franked 1.277/share
Gross profit 5.0/share = 12.72% return on investment.  9 days.

Bought CWN today @ 831.0 with a margin of 75%
Investment 207.75/share
exdiv 3rd October
Dividend declared 29.0/share 40% franked 4.97/share


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## Seneca60BC (4 October 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Hi Rozella

You seem to have one fine system in place - however can you please report your NET returns rather than your GROSS - i like to see it like its money in my pocket after all expenses.

Cheers!


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## rozella (4 October 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day Seneca60BC,

My overheads (office expenses) are not relevant to everyone & also I am a creature of habit & loath changes, however, if you wish to spend the time & do the calculations for just the brokerage & interest, then work on $33/trade (no limit) & 10% p.a. interest average.  Trades vary between $30k & $100k.....depending on the volume that stocks trade in a day.

Cheers,


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## Seneca60BC (5 October 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Ahh ok - yea it sounds like too much work.

Cheers!


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## michael_selway (23 October 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



rozella said:


> I'm quite happy with the strategy Michael, especially this August & September.
> 
> Is there a problem with my post that you quoted, that prompted you to comment, other than not picking the tops & bottoms ?




Hi Rozella, can you please tell us how your dividend "strategy" is working now, esp now when we are in a "true" bear market?

thx

MS


----------



## rozella (31 October 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

It is very slow Michael


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## rozella (5 November 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought BOQ yesterday @ 1310.0 with a 70% margin
Investment 393.0/share
Exdiv 7th November
Dividend declared 38.0/share fully franked

Bought ENV yesterday @ 63.5 with a margin of 65%
Investment 22.225/share
Exdist 7th November
Distribution 4.5/unit zero franked


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## rozella (5 November 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold BOQ today @ 1360.0
Bought 4th November @ 1310.0 with a 70% margin
Investment 393.0/share
Exdiv 7th November
Dividend declared 38.0/share fully franked
Gross profit 50.0/share = 12.72% return on investment.  1 day


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## furiouswilly (5 November 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



rozella said:


> Sold BOQ today @ 1360.0
> Bought 4th November @ 1310.0 with a 70% margin
> Investment 393.0/share
> Exdiv 7th November
> ...




Sorry iam a beginner, this may be a silly question for u, for instant u bought BOQ today n sold it hour later, will u able to get the exdiv on 7th November? 

if the exdiv date is 7 th November , when is the last day to buy the shares and when i can sell it? if i buy it today, and sell it on 7 th November is that ok? or if i buy it on 7th n sell it on same day , will i entitle to receive the dividend? 

and also the pay date usually listed is a month after the exdiv date, so when they actually pay us the dividend? straightaway or have to wait until the pay date?

Many thanks

furiouswilly


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## rozella (6 November 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

G'day furiouswilly,



> Sorry iam a beginner, this may be a silly question for u, for instant u bought BOQ today n sold it hour later, will u able to get the exdiv on 7th November?



No.



> f the exdiv date is 7 th November , when is the last day to buy the shares and when i can sell it? if i buy it today, and sell it on 7 th November is that ok? or if i buy it on 7th n sell it on same day , will i entitle to receive the dividend?



Last time to buy to be entitled to the dividend will be on the close 6th November (today)

Then the earliest I can sell & still be entitled to the dividend is on the open on the 7th November (tomorrow)



> and also the pay date usually listed is a month after the exdiv date, so when they actually pay us the dividend? straightaway or have to wait until the pay date?



They pay on the date nominated in the report....in this case with BOQ it is the 24th November.  CFDs will pay on the 7th November (exdiv date)


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## rozella (7 November 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold ENV @ 67.5 on the 6th November
Bought ENV on the 4th November @ 63.5 with a margin of 65%
Investment 22.225/share
Exdist 7th November
Distribution 4.5/unit zero franked
Gross profit 4.0/share = 18.0% return on investment.  2 days


----------



## rozella (7 November 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought SGP today @ 412.0 with a margin of 80%
Investment 82.4/unit
Distribution announcement expected about 18th December
Exdist expected 23rd December
Last years distribution was 22.6/unit 2.25% franked


----------



## rozella (7 November 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Bought BWP today @ 150.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 45.0/unit
Distribution announcement expected about 12th December
Exdist expected 23rd December
Last years distribution was 6.55/unit zero franked


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## rozella (10 November 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Sold BWP today at average 158.4/unit
Bought 7th November @ 150.0 with a margin of 70%
Investment 45.0/unit
Distribution announcement expected about 12th December
Exdist expected 23rd December
Last years distribution was 6.55/unit zero franked
Gross profit 8.4/unit = 18.67% return on investment.  3 days


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## rozella (11 November 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Re-entered ENV on the close today @ 57.5 with a margin of 65%
Investment 20.125/unit
Post distribution 7th November


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## furiouswilly (12 November 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



rozella said:


> Re-entered ENV on the close today @ 57.5 with a margin of 65%
> Investment 20.125/unit
> Post distribution 7th November




should we buy any stock at this time? seem going down everyday


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## awg (10 December 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

i have question relating to ex-dividend date.

how is this determined and how far in advance is it notified, and by what means.
ie company announcement.

I have used the ASX website, and taken the data from previous years ex-div date to give me an indication, but i know it can vary from year to year.

I am presuming there is a Company announcement.

maybe I will just have to subscribe to Rozellas newsletter

but am posting this question also for the benefit of others who also may wish to know


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## skc (10 December 2008)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Here are several sources that may be helpful... but none of them are necessarily complete or always up to date. I guess that's why Rozella has a business 

http://www.egoli.com.au/epiServer/Templates/Public/Pages/Page2.aspx?id=23572&epslanguage=en - Look for dividend calendar by date / code.

http://www.investorsnetwork.com.au/research_channel/calendar_book/ex_dividend.php

http://www.brr.com.au/partner/asx/filter/upcoming

For US stocks - http://www.dividend.com/ex-dividend-dates.php

Some companies only release distribution and ex-div dates 7-10 days before, like the recent announcements by the suite of ING funds. Some of the Macquarie funds should hopefully be announcing their numbers over the next week or so. But otherwise, last year dates are your best guide.


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## WaySolid (10 February 2009)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

How is trading treating you in 09 Rozella, curious about the latest update, it's been a savage bear market since the top.


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## Pairs Trader (5 March 2009)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Ive seen research of a dividend-share price connection. Stocks that have fully franked dividends of 4% of more and that are in the 90th percentile of relative strength and reasonably valued using PEG or PB tend to outperform the market in the several months leading up to ex-dividend by about 3-4%. Its the run up before the ex-dividend date that is profitable not payment of the actual dividend.


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## Bill M (5 March 2009)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



Pairs Trader said:


> Ive seen research of a dividend-share price connection. Stocks that have fully franked dividends of 4% of more and that are in the 90th percentile of relative strength and reasonably valued using PEG or PB tend to outperform the market in the several months leading up to ex-dividend by about 3-4%. Its the run up before the ex-dividend date that is profitable not payment of the actual dividend.




I'm not trying to be funny but what happened to Telstra? It's gone from $3.80 to $3.40 in a week and it goes ex dvi tomorrow.


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## Pairs Trader (5 March 2009)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



Bill M said:


> I'm not trying to be funny but what happened to Telstra? It's gone from $3.80 to $3.40 in a week and it goes ex dvi tomorrow.




what happened is the market went down over the last week, all boats rise & fall with the tide.


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## michael_selway (6 May 2009)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



rozella said:


> Re-entered ENV on the close today @ 57.5 with a margin of 65%
> Investment 20.125/unit
> Post distribution 7th November




Hi Rozella, just wondering are you back in the game now, since its a mini bull now?

I might try this strat too 

Thanks
MS


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## Ferret (1 August 2009)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I used to enjoy following this thread.  I liked the idea of what Rozella was doing, but I didn't have the balls for it.  Too much leverage involved for me.

Now he's been gone 10 months.  I tried his link and its broken.  Doesn't look good.

Let us know if you've survived, Rozella.  A nice uptrend at the moment and dividend season around the corner.  If you're still in the game, now might be your time.


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## beamstas (1 August 2009)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Rozella is still around and is okay, he posted over on reef recently.


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## WaySolid (26 October 2009)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

Any update about Don?

Website is down and don't have an email contact.


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## Fool (26 November 2009)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

TWR 

TOWER LIMITED FPO NZ (ORDINARY FULLY PAID) 

Current Price $1.51

See todays announcement  "TOWER Dividend"

“TOWER advises that a final dividend of 9 cents per share will be paid on 2 February 2010 (Payment
Date) to all shareholders as at 5pm on Friday, 15 January 2010 (Record Date).
“


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## kiddz7 (3 December 2009)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

i got a question regarding this. if ex dividend date is 15 of nov, dividend will be paid on the 15th of dec.

if we buy before or on the 15th of nov, do we have to hold it till dividend payment date to get dividend?


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## milothedog (3 December 2009)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

You have to hold the stock before it goes ex dividend to qualify for the div.  Once it goes ex, you can sell and still receive the div, the payment date has no bearing on it.

If you bought on the 15th, the day it goes ex, you do not receive the div (as it is ex div).


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## redcorvetteguy (16 November 2012)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*



rozella said:


> Here is an article in todays newspaper
> 
> http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,11438484%5E643,00.html
> 
> ...




Hi rozella,
it has been many years since this post but wondering if your stratergy is still working in the current market.
regards
redcorvetteguy


----------



## PinguPingu (18 November 2012)

*Re: Dividend, Share Price. Is there a connection?*

I'm pretty sure he stated that it was much much easier in a bull market. I wonder how many shares last week going ex-dividend soon went up while our market fell for 5 days..?


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## banit7 (9 March 2017)

Does anybody know what happened to Rozella and his Dividend Trading Strategy?

His website exdividendwatch.com.au is no longer up.

Has anybody been following in Rozella's footsteps?

Ben.


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