# Lifestyle Trader



## Moogadah

Hello all,

I am just wondering if anyone here has - like myself, for better of for worse - purchased and is using the Aussie Rob Lifestyle trader package?

So far my active paper trades are in the black, however my closed paper trading is showing a net loss which _suggests_ the system's exit strategies are not geared to extracting maximum profits.

As a beginner, I acknowledge that my 'mastery' of the trading system may be somewhat off...this post is created to hopefully tap into other's experiences.

Thanks.


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## rowes

Hi,

Hadn't heard of it till you mentioned it, had a qucik nosey and at a price of 
US$3,995 you'd want pretty damn good results. you could buy a goat load of great books to learn from for that price.

There is no system that will tell you when to get in and when to get out with maximum profits i think. I often wonder though what info these systems actually give you. do you think you could post a chart that includes the entry and exit that the system has given. I would just like to be nosey thats all. 

The way i see is that wouldnt the developers of systems like these be using them for there own gain and trading the markets not flogging them to the public for thousands if they where that good.


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## investa

Moogadah said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I am just wondering if anyone here has - like myself, for better of for worse - purchased and is using the Aussie Rob Lifestyle trader package?
> 
> So far my active paper trades are in the black, however my closed paper trading is showing a net loss which _suggests_ the system's exit strategies are not geared to extracting maximum profits.
> 
> As a beginner, I acknowledge that my 'mastery' of the trading system may be somewhat off...this post is created to hopefully tap into other's experiences.
> 
> Thanks.




Hi, 

I bought a copy if this software last year in September (2006).
I am happy to share my 2 cents with you all on this package.

First of all, I am a property investor/trader and I don't know much about Forex etc. Although I have had some experience paper trading options previously I am not no master in trading at all. As we all know, the property market has been booming way beyond it's actual value, we (my partner and I) started looking into other ways of investing. We came across this product through a "friend" of ours, who claimed that he has been using is and he worked for him. But later on we found out that he was promoting the product on behalf of Lifestyle Traders. (He was paid by Lifestyle Trader to attend all these seminars and tell people how much success he has with the software etc)

Well, I am a Business Systems Analyst by trade. I build software systems for companies. From a BSA's point of view, normally a software system is built to simplify things, in the case of this ARLT package, it is to simplify your trading as per claimed by Lifestyle Trader that no more technical analysis etc, i.e. you should be able to trade by the signals and make money.

Just a general observation, the entry signals generated by this software are often way too late while the exist signals appear way too late as well, therefore it is very difficult to capture the profits. First month into my paper trading, I did not trade every single signal as per stipulated in the money back guarantee (because in the seminar we were instructed to trade with a money management system) and I was a few thousand dollars in red. This is when I thought I should go by the money back guarantee and trade every signal generated by the software. (you probably found out by now that the software only displays 4 - 6 weeks worth of data)

Anyway, I went back to trade every signal generated by the software. My findings are:

The first month of trading every signal I lost US$50,000 on paper

2 months into trading every signal generated by the software, I lost US$200,000 at one stage. But the market did come back up somehow.

3 months into trading every signal, I lost ~ US$70,000 on paper

I used this as my baseline and I also tried trading with stop loss (only for 2 months though), however, the results did not seem to produce any paper profit either.

In the end, we had to resort to the money back guarantee and ask for our money back. 

When we submitted our results to Lifestyle Traders, they refused to communicate with us, so we had to go to the Dept of Fair Trading and they even refused to talk to the Fair Trading representatives. In the end, we had to take them to the Small Claim Court (as per suggested by Fair Trading).

Good news is, Lifestyle Trader have been ordered to give us our money back.

Lifestyle Trader is very difficult to deal with... we are now helping a couple of people to get their money back as well.

I hope this helps.

investa


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## Pager

I remember seeing them at a small business expo a couple of years ago, all the sales people were dressed Steve Irwin style, to me it came across as utter rubbish with unrealistic promises but like a lot of these peddlers there was no shortage of interest in making easy money .

Remember one of the salesmen showing me some trade examples; he kept referring to having bought a short position???? on Pork Belly’s I think that made $$$$$$ in only a few days, sure its possible but when I said things can go the other way, what if the market had gone limit up against you, the salesman looked at me a bit confused and said “Limit what” .

I didn’t hang about.


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## chan_a1

*Aussie Rob Lifestyle trader program*

Hi 

I went to a seminar on Saturday which was Aussie Rob's Lifestyle trader program. The program give you exact entry and exit signal as well as where to place stop losses. The algorithm for the programs is based on supply and demand. The program is used to trade Forex, Commodity, Stock and Options. The program sells for $4995 and comes with a course and 2 day program training. The company seem very commited to educating one to be a competent trader the presented said "if you are 100% commited, then we would be 200% committed to you". There was no pressure to purchase the program as will some seminar and the trades results were quite impressive. Just wondering if anyone has experience with this program and is it worth it? Any feedback is greatly appreciated.


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## professor_frink

*Re: Aussie Rob Lifestyle trader program*



chan_a1 said:


> Hi
> 
> I went to a seminar on Saturday which was Aussie Rob's Lifestyle trader program. The program give you exact entry and exit signal as well as where to place stop losses. The algorithm for the programs is based on supply and demand. The program is used to trade Forex, Commodity, Stock and Options. The program sells for $4995 and comes with a course and 2 day program training. The company seem very commited to educating one to be a competent trader the presented said "if you are 100% commited, then we would be 200% committed to you". There was no pressure to purchase the program as will some seminar and the trades results were quite impressive. Just wondering if anyone has experience with this program and is it worth it? Any feedback is greatly appreciated.




supply and demand 

Looks like moving average crossover system to me. I'll sell you one of those for $2500


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## doctorj

*Re: Aussie Rob Lifestyle trader program*



chan_a1 said:


> I went to a seminar on Saturday which was Aussie Rob's Lifestyle trader program. The program give you exact entry and exit signal as well as where to place stop losses. The algorithm for the programs is based on supply and demand.



I have no specific experience on this program or anything similar, but every time I read someone interested in one I have the following thoughts:
- How can a 'black box' entry system be used to teach someone?  Without opening up that black box, no one will learn a thing, aside from being able to use the program.  So if that's the case, why would anyone "wanting to learn" buy one?  I'm certain the answer is that people either don't want to or don't have the time to learn themselves - plus it's convenient to have someone to blame if their trading doesn't work out so well.
- So, if someone looking to get into the market doesn't really want to learn but still wants to have a position in the market, why not use index or managed funds?  They won't charge you thousands to just get your foot in the door and you'll learn just as much...


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## Pager

*Re: Aussie Rob Lifestyle trader program*



chan_a1 said:


> Hi
> 
> I went to a seminar on Saturday which was Aussie Rob's Lifestyle trader program. The program give you exact entry and exit signal as well as where to place stop losses. The algorithm for the programs is based on supply and demand. The program is used to trade Forex, Commodity, Stock and Options. The program sells for $4995 and comes with a course and 2 day program training. The company seem very commited to educating one to be a competent trader the presented said "if you are 100% commited, then we would be 200% committed to you". There was no pressure to purchase the program as will some seminar and the trades results were quite impressive. Just wondering if anyone has experience with this program and is it worth it? Any feedback is greatly appreciated.




Hi Chan

Before your post there was only 4 posts but 1 by investa tells of his experiance with lifestyle trader which is what your question asks 

Maybe take a look.

Cheers

Pager


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## chan_a1

Thanks doctorj and pager for your feedback. I didn't realise there was information on the forum already about lifestyle trader already. Being new to the forum I wasn't able to search for information prior to registering. Further to the lifestyle trading program it also comes with a education course that covers commodities, options, forex and stock so there is a theoretical side to the program. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has completed this program. Their website is www.lifestyletrader.com.au


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## wayneL

chan_a1 said:


> Thanks doctorj and pager for your feedback. I didn't realise there was information on the forum already about lifestyle trader already. Being new to the forum I wasn't able to search for information prior to registering. Further to the lifestyle trading program it also comes with a education course that covers commodities, options, forex and stock so there is a theoretical side to the program. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has completed this program. Their website is www.lifestyletrader.com.au



Your paying $,000's for an oscillator that you can program yourself with Metamumbojumbo or Amibroker or Tradestation... even Excel

If you want to learn about commodities and options, Joe's bookshop or the library will have more info than Aussie Robber will ever teach you. If interested, I can suggest some good books.


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## wayneL




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## chan_a1

Thanks for your feedback wayne.  It is quite expensive. In the seminar they said the indicator is not a lagging indicator but more of a leading indicator. It is based on market supply and demand. The other cost that is need is the data feed which is $128 per month!

If you could direct me to some good commodities and forex books that would be great. I have already read alot of books on CFDs and looking to expand my trading into commodities and forex.


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## wayneL

chan_a1 said:


> Thanks for your feedback wayne.  It is quite expensive. In the seminar they said the indicator is not a lagging indicator but more of a leading indicator. It is based on market supply and demand. The other cost that is need is the data feed which is $128 per month!
> 
> If you could direct me to some good commodities and forex books that would be great. I have already read alot of books on CFDs and looking to expand my trading into commodities and forex.



Hi Chan, 

The indicator is obviously derived from price and/or volume, therefore must be lagging. It might not be a simple or exponential moving average, it might be a least squared or volume weighted MA. These are often incorrectly described as "leading indicators", but they are not. That is just spin.

I don't know any forex books, but if you let me know what style of trading you want to do, I can suggest some commodity books that may be appropriate.


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## Temjin

chan_a1 said:


> Thanks for your feedback wayne.  It is quite expensive. In the seminar they said the indicator is not a lagging indicator but more of a leading indicator. It is based on market supply and demand. The other cost that is need is the data feed which is $128 per month!
> 
> If you could direct me to some good commodities and forex books that would be great. I have already read alot of books on CFDs and looking to expand my trading into commodities and forex.




Boy, you need to be directed to RIGHT HERE.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=20

and this particular thread!

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6870

Read them all, but first book I recommend you to read is 

Dr Van Tharp, Trade your way to Financial Freedom.

Buy one right now and after you finished reading it, go back to Aussie Robber's Lifestyle claim and you will probably end up laughing at all.  

And THERE IS NO SUCH THING as a TREND LEADING indicator. All trend following indicators will ALWAYS, I repeat, mathematically ALWAYS lag behind the price action. The math behind it is not that complex but the general public will not want to investigate it, nor have the knowledge to. 

P.S: Try asking them for the maths and formulas for it, they will reject you outright saying it's all propertiary.

They would rather hear successful stories and get positive feedbacks from other "mates". 

The only thing that Aussie Robber is doing a great job is marketing.


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## Temjin

> Ya want Technical Indicators?
> 
> Yes, there are some traders who still feel compelled to use their good ole charts from the old days. Yeh I know, "Analysis Paralysis"... Oh well, old habits are hard to break so to keep ya happy you can dump your old datafeed and charts as the Aussie Rob Lifestyle Trader includes:
> Accumulation Distribution
> Average True Range
> Bollinger Bands
> *Commodity Channel Index (Commodities Only) *
> Ease of Movement
> Exponential Moving Average
> MACD
> On Balance Volume
> Rate of Change (ROC)
> Relative Strength Index (RSI)
> Simple Moving Average:
> Standard Deviation
> Stochastic
> Volume
> Williams % R




LOL!  

I bet he doesn't even understand the construction of this particular indicator and only knows or assumed it can only be used for commondities only because the indicator is named like that.


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## wayneL

Temjin said:


> LOL!
> 
> I bet he doesn't even understand the construction of this particular indicator and only knows or assumed it can only be used for commondities only because the indicator is named like that.



LOL Temjin. Didn't notice that one.  

PMSL here.


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## investa

chan_a1 said:


> Thanks doctorj and pager for your feedback. I didn't realise there was information on the forum already about lifestyle trader already. Being new to the forum I wasn't able to search for information prior to registering. Further to the lifestyle trading program it also comes with a education course that covers commodities, options, forex and stock so there is a theoretical side to the program. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has completed this program. Their website is www.lifestyletrader.com.au




chan_a1,

My apologies for the delayed response. I have been overseas and haven't checked the forum for some time.

I have completed the "Computer Lab" program. As far as I can recall, the computer lab was not about the "theoretical side" of the program (well, think about this, why would he tell you his trade secret?). The main thing taught in the computer lab was the "Options trading" using the software package. Apart from the "Options", he had touched on how the "Commodity" market works and kind of demonstrated on how to interpret the signals generated by the ARLT system. I think (or I guess), Rob Wilson (the presenter) didn't want to be held liable for ppl's financial loss from using the software, he was not willing to confirm how the signals should be interpreted. To me, I think the computer lab was a waste of time!

Personally, I think if you want to be a trader you need to under how the market works and how to analyse data and charts, because market never stays the same.

I hope this helps!

Regards,
investa


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## stargazer

If nothing else its a catchy name isn't it.  Laying on the beach and just raking in the dollars.  Yeah right...


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## investa

stargazer said:


> If nothing else its a catchy name isn't it.  Laying on the beach and just raking in the dollars.  Yeah right...




Well, put it this way, the purchase agreement says for the money back guarantee, the purchaser has to trade every signal generated by the system for some 60 odd instruments for 90 days and one of the judges did not agree with "Lifestyle Trader" that their software is a product that will improve your lifestyle!!


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## tyson1

hahahaha lol wayne, i like the 'aussie robber' name haha. i was especially impressed by the claim that it shows 'at a glance' the direction of the share price action.... i mean can you really see what way the share price is going by looking at charts (sarcasm)? and sherrie seems like a really educated trader... hahaha. what a rip off.


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## stevo

$4000 is not much to pay if the strategies or systems work and the training is good. Whilst I know nothing about Aussie Rob I did look at the results spreadsheet and they don't appear to be promising too much with win / loss ratios less than 2 and % winners less than 50%. with stocks I like to see a win loss ratio greater than 3, but then I don't trade commodities.

Any canned system is normally bagged on these forums. Many of us prefer to roll our own systems and know that it can be hard to trade someone else's system, especially if we don't really understand how it works or it's black box. Some of the experiences above highlight the need to use extreme caution with any trading strategy, even one's we design ourselves!

My only problem is that they wanted my email address before I could get my results - more junk email on the way 

stevo
Note - in London sunset is at 3.53pm and it's around 5 degrees tops - great to visit but I am not sure I could survive here long.


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## billyboy

Isn't it great that morons who haven't even seen the package in action can make a comment on something that they clearly know nothing about?

Moving averages, stochastics WTF?

It's simply a supply and demand indicator that obviously monitors order flow and market depth combined with open interest to gauge when either the buyers or sellers are building a dominant position. I saw it demonstrated at a 21 Century event on the Gold Coast last year and really liked the simplicity of the programme.

But because the guy doesn't disclose his algorithim formula all these idiots think it's a black box system that uses standard TA indicators.

I mean, more buyers than sellers price goes up, right? More sellers than buyers, price goes down.???

"Nah, it can't be that simple can it?"

It made sense to me, plus it tells you where to place your stop loss and move it to each day based on a multiple of the ATR.

The selling point to me was the option scanner. I used to trade bull put spreads using the AD strategy over the Aussie market. Never again though. I now do bull put and bear call spreads over the US market.

As far as the trading system goes, I took my first trade on new years eve after getting a short signal on the mini-dow futures contract on Friday the 28/12/07 at a price of 13,427. My order was filled on the 31/12/07 at a price of 13,420.

On the 14/01/08 I was given the signal to close my position at an exit price of 12,798. My order though was actually filled on the 16/01/07 at a price of 12,510.

That's 910 points on one trade in just over two weeks.

Yeah this things a load of crap!

Go back to your Daryl Guppy and Chris Tate books guys.


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## wayneL

Hi Aussie Rob... err...billyboy,

...and you signed up just to give us all a serve.

We're honoured. 

Easiest way to shut us all up is:

a/ Send brokers statements matching signals to trades.

b/ Do some real time trades here on ASF(and I mean as they happen with charts etc)

You might even get some customers.

You up for it Rob.... errr.... billy?

By the way, if you really are billyboy, I'll bet you're glad to have dumped the AD strategy right about now.


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## Trembling Hand

Yes please post some more of these great trades. I'm looking forward to many more posts from you, billyboy.


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## wayneL

billyboy said:


> As far as the trading system goes, I took my first trade on new years eve after getting a short signal on the mini-dow futures contract on Friday the 28/12/07 at a price of 13,427. My order was filled on the 31/12/07 at a price of 13,420.
> 
> On the 14/01/08 I was given the signal to close my position at an exit price of 12,798. My order though was actually filled on the 16/01/07 at a price of 12,510.
> 
> That's 910 points on one trade in just over two weeks.
> 
> *Yeah this things a load of crap!*




Actually, I agree with you. The "system" has cheated you out of about 1000 points at this stage.


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## billyboy

Sorry if I hurt your feelings Wayne, but I'm sure you'll get over it. 

Thanks for the compliment too btw, but do you honestly think that "Aussie Robber" (that's brilliant that is) would bother answering his critics on some web site forum?

I'm not even sure he knows about this web site.

Why don't you send him an email and ask him for his personal trading results. 

I'm sure he would oblige.

I do you a deal. I'll put up scanned copies of my trading results over the last 3 months if you put up copies of yours over the past 3 months first.

How does that sound?

"You up for it Wayne me ole mate or are your trading results not that good?" 

It still doesn't stop you from mouthing off though does it?

And yes I am glad that I am not doing the AD strategy over the Aussie market any more.

As far as the Mini-Dow trade went. I received my next short signal on the 15-1-08 at a price of 12,564. I was filled the next day at 12,550. On the 24-01-08 I received the signal to close at a price of 12,365. I woke up this morning to see that my position was closed last night at 12,385.

Did I get out too early?

Who knows, who cares?

At least I don't have to worry about having an open position over the weekend. Just follow the rules I say. 

Cheers


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## Trembling Hand

billyboy said:


> I do you a deal. I'll put up scanned copies of my trading results over the last 3 months if you put up copies of yours over the past 3 months first.
> 
> As far as the Mini-Dow trade went. I received my next short signal on the 15-1-08 at a price of 12,564. I was filled the next day at 12,550. On the 24-01-08 I received the signal to close at a price of 12,365. I woke up this morning to see that my position was closed last night at 12,385.




So that is a no to sending a statement to someone confirming the claimed trades?
and a no to posting some real time trades rather than after the event trades?


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## wayneL

billyboy said:


> Sorry if I hurt your feelings Wayne, but I'm sure you'll get over it.
> 
> Thanks for the compliment too btw, but do you honestly think that "Aussie Robber" (that's brilliant that is) would bother answering his critics on some web site forum?
> 
> I'm not even sure he knows about this web site.
> 
> Why don't you send him an email and ask him for his personal trading results.
> 
> I'm sure he would oblige.
> 
> I do you a deal. I'll put up scanned copies of my trading results over the last 3 months if you put up copies of yours over the past 3 months first.
> 
> How does that sound?
> 
> "You up for it Wayne me ole mate or are your trading results not that good?"
> 
> It still doesn't stop you from mouthing off though does it?
> 
> And yes I am glad that I am not doing the AD strategy over the Aussie market any more.
> 
> As far as the Mini-Dow trade went. I received my next short signal on the 15-1-08 at a price of 12,564. I was filled the next day at 12,550. On the 24-01-08 I received the signal to close at a price of 12,365. I woke up this morning to see that my position was closed last night at 12,385.
> 
> Did I get out too early?
> 
> Who knows, who cares?
> 
> At least I don't have to worry about having an open position over the weekend. Just follow the rules I say.
> 
> Cheers



Hi billy,

I'm going to cut you a little bit of slack, but don't go too far with the insults... those infraction points add up pretty quickly. 

As far as my results go, I'm not selling a black box, nor making any claims, nor posting hindsight trades. You/Aussie Rob are. The onus is on you.

Another revelation for you: "Real"(?) gurus post on forums all the time. Cottle, Faith, Covel, Radge, to name a few.

Now, some evidence of profitability would be appreciated. Looking forward to it. I would also appreciate some evidence that the "lines" aren't some form of moving average/linear regression indicator.

Supply and demand indicator? LOL


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## billyboy

Dodging the issue?

Surely not Wayne. Let's never mention your trading results ever again then as you obviously won't display them first.

I am not selling a black box system nor am I bragging about my trading results. I just don't like people bagging systems that they have never even seen before.

For your information I also use Daniel Kertchers stratgies for trading CFDs and options with. If anyone was on this forum bagging Platinum Pursuits without having attended one of his workshops then I would be defending him as well.

Boy if that happens you would be totally confused Wayne.

You won't know whether I'm Aussie Rob or Daniel Kertcher. You might even accuse me of being "Aussie Kertcher" a mutant derivatives trader from the planet black box sent to earth to answer criticism from "know it alls" on trading forums.

Eventually "Aussie Kertcher" lands a job as an equity index futures prop trader with Soc Gen in Paris who have no idea of his true identity.

(Tee-Hee)

Okay then Wayne, if you won't publish your trading results on this forum first then what about a live trading competition then?

You pick a commodity, index or forex pair for us both to trade for a one month period only. 

Once the particular contract has been agreed upon, each person must announce whether that are going long or short on that particular contract at an actual entry price which can be verified. 

All stop losses must be announced at the same time of entering the trade and can only be adjusted by announcing a new stop price on this forum first.

This way it can be proven if either trader has been stopped out or not.

Should either person whish to exit a trade prior to being stopped out they must announce their intention to do so to be followed up with the actual price exited from the trade the next day. At the end of the month the winner will be announced on this forum.

This will be a live position trading competition with no day trading allowed with just the one contract to be traded at all times. You do have the choice of staying out of a trade though if you have not had a suitable entry signal.

Futures contract or major FX pair, I'll let you decide on the market.

Gold, Oil, the E-mini Dow, the AUD, Wheat, you name it Wayne.

I'll use the supply and demand indicator you can use which ever method you want.

Consider a glove being slapped across your face Wayne.

"I challenge you to a duel"

Are you up for it Wayne?


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## Timmy

I am uncomfortable with an obvious charlatan getting access to this forum, where Joe and mods try to maintain a high standard.  Joe has worked hard to build a community here and I do not like charlatans exploiting his hard work to gain free publicity.

There is a very recent example of a vendor posting at least his real-time calls on YouTube, anyone who is not an obvious charlatan would do something similar and expose his scheme to scrutiny.  Whoever you are, you are a quack and a seller of snake oil, post your real-time trades or at least market calls if you would like any credibility.

I am torn between asking the mods to delete the posts of this obvious hawker or to leave them here so he has enough rope.


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## billyboy

Poor Timmy, he wants mummy to make the nasty man to go away.

Boo Hoo

I have offered to put my trades up in advance of declaring the results to this forum. I just expect the same from the other whingers on this forum who can talk the talk but sadly can't walk the walk.

Come on fair is fair. Are you up for the trading challenge Timmy?


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## Timmy

Out of courtesy I will respond, but only once, to this charlatan.

YouTube is an excellent medium for the posting of real-time trades, or if that is too threatening, real time calls.  I would like to say therefore, put up or shut up.  I will refrain, though, because I know you will do neither.

You will not post your trades or calls, not because you are either a coward or a fraud, but because you are a very calculating and rational person.  You cannot afford the scrutiny this would place your little scheme under.  That's OK, I understand.  One must be very disciplined when one sells snake-oil for a living.

Also, you will not shut up because it is truly said that an empty vessel makes the most noise.

I have no doubt you will find many fools to pay for your scheme, they say there is one born every minute and your conniving ways are sure to uncover them.

This is the last time I view this particular thread, and as of now I shall utilise that very handy 'ignore' feature so I no longer have to view the ramblings of at least one idiot.

I urge readers who are this far down the thread to do the same thing.


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## Pager

Give the bloke a go I say, if he wants to prove his method works then im all for it, bring it on.

Do as you say you will billyboy, don’t think you need to go head to head or dual anyone, just stick to the rules you have laid down and show us a month of trading with entry’s, stops, exits, profit targets in advance as surely this is how purchasers of such syetems would be trading, its not a quick intra day technique were posting trades before they occur is difficult due to the time factor. 

There are many skeptics posting here about the likes of Aussie Rob, Daniel Kertcher, SITM and many others myself included, but if they can show us trades real time then I for 1 will be the first to acknowledge I was wrong.


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## nizar

stevo said:


> $4000 is not much to pay if the strategies or systems work and the training is good. Whilst I know nothing about Aussie Rob I did look at the results spreadsheet and they don't appear to be promising too much with win / loss ratios less than 2 and % winners less than 50%. with stocks I like to see a win loss ratio greater than 3, but then I don't trade commodities.




Tend to agree, expenses for me to set up my first system have been about $6k so far 

But that included a $2.5k laptop so my next system should be way less.

And guys, this guy billyboy doesn't have to prove himself to anybody.
If he's making good money selling systems, then good on him.
Its those buying the systems who have to be careful.

If there wasn't a market for people who wanted to "get rich quick the easy way", then these "scammers/robbers" wouldn't be in business.

But unfortunately, there are plenty of people looking for the "easy way" who are not willing to put in the time and effort in designing/developing their own system(s). And these are the guys that get sucked in.


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## IFocus

Billyboy agree with Pager others on the forum do exactly what he suggests Kauri and  ithatheekret are two that come to mind 

And as for Daniel Kertcher try a Google......


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## TheAbyss

I don't understand his need to challenge people. If he has insecurities about his methods and needs to compare penis size then let him do so elsewhere..

If Billyboy is as good as he thinks, why the need to challenge anyone? Off to the bank and count your cash Billbob.

If you want a challenge, then challenge yourself to improve, not rest on you laurels pointing your finger and pounding your chest.

Add something meaningful or keep your overtly agressive nature to those closer to home who have no choice but to listen and tell you that you are their god.


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## Kauri

If you are determined to go with a black box.. at least this one gives you more bang for your buck...

Cheering
.........Kauri


----------



## investa

billyboy,

As you said, all of us are morons and idiots on this forum and I must admit that out of all these morons and idiots I must be the lead moron/idiot, as I was stupid enough to actually spend $4000 on that "Aussie Robber" software and even more stupid to spend the 90 days to perform detailed system testing to prove that the software didn't work... AND spend another 3 months to fight for my money back at the Consumer, Trader and Tenancy Tribunal.

I think, with the qualification demonstrated above, my fellow forumites,  will agree with me that I am the most qualified person on this forum to comment on the software.

Well, read my lips - *IT DOESN'T WORK!!!!*

And the CTTT judges agreed with me as well!  

investa


----------



## just lil ol me

Dont close off this thread it is the only one that returns when you search for this rogue - btw yes we are suckers we brought it and he deserves to go down promoting this to computer illiterate seniors at retirement expos then giving them nothing for their money.  Latest newsletter promotes them using their super to fund the losing lifestyle.

We were not after a quick money making venture it is promoted as a business with all expenses tax deductible (thats how he gets people to part with lots of their money) and a home study course to teach you how to trade topped off with a brightly coloured flower to attract the bees fully.....yes we got sucked in, and we are middle aged.  The poor older people who feel like fools are not going to say anything are they.  

Anyone in the same boat contact me and we will work on a scheme.

Have done the paper trading, virtual trading and are now live and losing.

I searched for everything in google, got nothing except for sites promoting 
it.  To help others get here the words I used were Options Made Easy, Aussie Rob's Lifestyle Trader, Aussie Rob, Rob Wilson, Options Simplicity.  

Go on register it is not hard to do others need to hear what you have to say.

His latest spiel is on his website it goes something like ... he is an entrepeneur (aka take ya money and run) he was also extremely busy helping others on a financial message board (why then is there not something where other purchasers of his package can talk amongst themselves - it would appear as if he does not want us to compare stories)


----------



## wayneL

There is nothing like a "real" testimonial is there. LOL


Gl.... eeerrr, billyboy,

Duel? Bahahahaha!

I love this neat little challenge the challenger trick. It even works with some people if they have a big enough ego. 

But you see, I am a true lifestyle trader. I'm on this forum for conversation and camaraderie, not to sell a black box. If I'm a hack, so what?

However, Rob's moving avera.... eerrr, mysterious supply and demand indicator does.

Marvelous opportunity for sales here... or not?


----------



## >Apocalypto<

*Billy Bob aka Aussie rip off Rob, the snake oil salesmen. Looks like u lose!*
*If what I have just read in the last posts is true then,* *BUYER BEWARE*.


----------



## investa

Trade_It said:


> *Billy Bob aka Aussie rip off Rob, the snake oil salesmen. Looks like u lose!*
> *If what I have just read in the last posts is true then,* *BUYER BEWARE*.




I am happy to supply my results from paper trading using the Aussie Robber product for all forumites to view. 

Also I am happy to supply the CTTT's (Consumer Trader, Tenancy Tribunal) decision on my case against Aussie Robber's representatives.  

investa


----------



## MichaelD

investa said:


> I must admit that out of all these morons and idiots I must be the lead moron/idiot, as I was stupid enough to actually spend $4000 on that "Aussie Robber" software and even more stupid to spend the 90 days to perform detailed system testing to prove that the software didn't work...




Actually, it sounds like you're smarter than you give yourself credit for - very few buyers of black box systems would be smart enough to actually test the systems before proceeding to lose great wads of money with them.


----------



## investa

MichaelD said:


> Actually, it sounds like you're smarter than you give yourself credit for - very few buyers of black box systems would be smart enough to actually test the systems before proceeding to lose great wads of money with them.




Well, I guess it's just my professional instinct to:

1. Always read the contract/agreement and understand what I am getting myself into and what my exit strategy is.

2. Always make sure the products do what the promoters say they do.

investa


----------



## doctorj

The following post is for the purposes of transparency.  A few minutes with Google and Aussie Rob's website brought this to our attention.  If you're a regular ASF reader, it's worth keeping this following post in mind when reading things posted on the internet.  If you're anything like billyboy, _you really ought to know better_.



billyboy said:


> I am not selling a black box system



Really?

I want to start of by saying billybob isn't Aussie Rob.  However, *billyboy is listed as a licensee* for aussie rob on the website.  According to the section of the website that describes the affiliate program, licensees make money from aussie rob, presumably for flogging their software.

It may also be handy to know that every AFSL holder is required to be a member of a registered External Dispute Resolution body.  Most AFSL holders are registered with FICS (http://www.fics.asn.au/).  FICS is a good port of call if you have a valid complaint against an AFSL holder.


----------



## juw177

And the plot thickens...


----------



## josh_in_a_box

yum snake oil!
i want some...me! me! me!


----------



## wayneL

This thread really shows the silliness of software/system spruikers trying to spam fora as "satisfied customers".

a/ It is totally transparent and an insult to the intelligence. People see through it immediately 
b/ It is difficult to hide your true identity from the administrator/mods.

Mr billy van boy didn't cover his tracks very well at all and might as well have left his passport at the scene... you know, like the "terrorists" always do.

Furthermore, instead of this thread languishing in the bowels of the site's archives, Mr billy van boy has dragged his principal's business up for a further shellacking, managed to illicit some truly negative "but real" testimonials, and further damaged the business's reputation.

Well done!


----------



## Trembling Hand

And now when you Google "lifestyle trader" this thread shows up at number 3.

*What an idiot!!*

I'm going to link to this thread on my blog. I would love to see everyone else with a blog do the same we maybe able to get it at number one on the search.


----------



## Sean K

Oh dear. 

:bricks1:


----------



## >Apocalypto<

kennas said:


> Oh dear.
> 
> :bricks1:




Tell me about it, he came in here all guns blazing defending his little commission cash cow and now were is he? Reading it all off line with a red face I guess. 

I would not be surprised if you saw Billy Bob plugger at elite trader or HotCopper selling dreams. What a tosser!

TH, I like your idea of getting it to number 1, jeez I would hate to be in BillyBob pluggers shoes when Aussie Snake oil Rob found out what's going on.   geezzzzzzz I can hear the cries of *crikey* already! crappy testimonials and a crap marketing image! :screwy:


----------



## Timmy

Couldn't resist having another look at the thread...

I wonder if this guy knows he has probably breached s53 of the Trade Practices Act, the section that prohibits deceptive and misleading conduct?

I would say he has probably breached it by coming in here and posing as a customer of the firm, when he is actually an authorised representative of the firm.  I wonder if The International Securities & Derivatives Group Pty Ltd. ABN 22 103 552 683. Australian Financial Services Licence 227544, who provide the license to Aussie Rob Lifestyle Trader, know that one of their reps is in breach of the Act?  And, of course, that he is of unethical character?

I see vendors on this forum who are at least are up front about what they do and who make positive contributions.  I suppose, though, when you are flogging software that, at best, may find use as a passable paper-weight, being honest is not an option.

ps.  Just in case Google has any trouble indexing the thread.  
Aussie Rob Lifestyle Trader, deceptive and misleading conduct, breach of section 53 Trade Practices Act, unethical conduct, misrepresentation, conduct that is deceptive or misleading or likely to be deceptive or misleading.


----------



## investa

doctorj said:


> The following post is for the purposes of transparency.  A few minutes with Google and Aussie Rob's website brought this to our attention.  If you're a regular ASF reader, it's worth keeping this following post in mind when reading things posted on the internet.  If you're anything like billyboy, _you really ought to know better_.
> 
> 
> Really?
> 
> I want to start of by saying billybob isn't Aussie Rob.  However, *billyboy is listed as a licensee* for aussie rob on the website.  According to the section of the website that describes the affiliate program, licensees make money from aussie rob, presumably for flogging their software.
> 
> It may also be handy to know that every AFSL holder is required to be a member of a registered External Dispute Resolution body.  Most AFSL holders are registered with FICS (http://www.fics.asn.au/).  FICS is a good port of call if you have a valid complaint against an AFSL holder.




The Aussie Robber mob is promoting the product as an out of box product that any idiot can use it. As a result, a lot of the Aussie Robber software users/licensees know nothing about trading.

When I was fighting for my case against the Aussie Robber mob, their Sydney licensee said the following to the judge:

"We cannot refund the money to these people because the results of their paper trading were not recorded on paper" 

As you can imagine, the judge was trying very hard to look serious while we were holding our breath trying not to burst out laughing in the court!!

So, I am not surprised at all that this billyboy dude claimed that the Aussie Robber software is not a "blackbox".


----------



## investa

Timmy said:


> Couldn't resist having another look at the thread...
> 
> I wonder if this guy knows he has probably breached s53 of the Trade Practices Act, the section that prohibits deceptive and misleading conduct?
> 
> ps.  Just in case Google has any trouble indexing the thread.
> Aussie Rob Lifestyle Trader, deceptive and misleading conduct, breach of section 53 Trade Practices Act, unethical conduct, misrepresentation, conduct that is deceptive or misleading or likely to be deceptive or misleading.




Well, the CTTT tribunal judge after carefully consider the evidence supplied by us and Lifestyle Trader (which they didn't have any) had come to the conclusions that:

1. Lifestyle Trader has indeed breached s53. Lifestyle Trader promotes the product as a product that improves your lifestyle and yet their purchasers are required to "sit in front of the computer all day long to trade every single signal generated for every instrument" - this is misleading and deceptive.

2. The product is not fit for purpose.

investa


----------



## investa

billyboy said:


> It's simply a supply and demand indicator that obviously monitors order flow and market depth combined with open interest to gauge when either the buyers or sellers are building a dominant position.
> 
> But because the guy doesn't disclose his algorithim formula all these idiots think it's a black box system that uses standard TA indicators.




If it's just simply a supply and demand indicator, then why can't you just create your own charts (chart number of bids and asks on the EOD data)? Why do you need to spend $4000 to buy something you can do by yourself?



billyboy said:


> The selling point to me was the option scanner. I used to trade bull put spreads using the AD strategy over the Aussie market. Never again though. I now do bull put and bear call spreads over the US market.




Well, not only the FX and Commodities were not making money for me on paper, I didn't have much luck with the options scanner either. It was promoted as a fire and forget system but I found out that I had to manipulate the trades quite a fair bit. Even though my win/lose ratio averaged out to be 85%, overall I still lost money in options during my 90 days paper trading.



billyboy said:


> As far as the trading system goes, I took my first trade on new years eve after getting a short signal on the mini-dow futures contract on Friday the 28/12/07 at a price of 13,427. My order was filled on the 31/12/07 at a price of 13,420.
> 
> On the 14/01/08 I was given the signal to close my position at an exit price of 12,798. My order though was actually filled on the 16/01/07 at a price of 12,510.




Trading system? What trading system?


investa


----------



## just lil ol me

Aussie Rob asks of all Lifestyle Traders that we give something back:-
Well I am giving it back now for you Mr Robert Wilson.  _To the moderator I have read the ASIC notice and yes this is a true account the things that I am not sure about are preceded by the words "probably" ._

In Response to Other Previous Posts I have no idea what a "Black Box" trading system is but this was found on the ASIC site and yes I think his package is definitely a black box (it is only a modified MS Access database-but this has his "secret recipe of algorithms" that are a leading indicator of prices)
*From the ASIC site - PLEASE CHECK IT IF YOU ALSO KNOW NOTHING*
http://http://www.asic.gov.au/fido/fido.nsf/byheadline/buying+and+selling+shares+using+computer+programs?opendocument

*Other programs are called 'black boxes' because they do not tell you how they work out their advice. If you rely on these programs, you put complete faith and trust in the skill and reliability of the programmers. If their reasoning is wrong or if their program is unreliable, you won't know and you will have no control. You will also not be able to properly assess the level of risk in the program, and whether it matches your own risk tolerance. *

It should be remembered that I like most probably 95% of the people who have purchased this package have no knowledge of trading at all, they are most probably computer illiterate also.  The catch is that he tells you - you dont need to know anything as his crosses tell you all you need to know.  Then to make you feel that you are getting something for the huge amount of money that you are required to hand over, a "Home Study Course" is included.  This for us consisted of a few documents from the "Exclusive Members Area" of the website that we had to view online or download, these now have been updated and consist of some dodgy selections of the computer labs on DVD's and a few spiral bound notes that are very scanty in content that he sends out - the course is still incomplete with empty containers. 

The included DVD's are snapshots of the Computer Lab that you too can attend for around $1,ooo a day!!!!  If i knew how to post on you tube or something similair I would love to give out some free advertising for him.

We have never been told anything about risk management or how to formulate a trading plan - you need to fund your trading account with them before you even get a chance of being one of the first 20 people per month to join in with the brokers lessons.  Do you think I gave them any more money after already being shown how reliable they were when I may never get the help as they could always say sorry you were not one of the first 20 for this month????  We signed up with another crowd that have been promoted at their Perth Traders Club that uses the sonnray platform and their website has much more information on it than what supplied by this dude.   Interestingly the charts when showing price in the top panel and MACD in the bottom panel with axis adjustments to match his time frames are usually very close to what we receive in our exclusive download for $129 a month.  We have drawn our conclusions from this that yes it is just a moving average.

He then confuses the issue by telling everyone that the US is a day behind us and we can get in on their market before them because they are sleeping while we are awake!!!-Dont be confused by this they are also awake and trading while we are sleeping and unless you can time travel you can never take advantage of different time zones. A great marketing man is our Rob I wont dignify this with adding the Aussie tag as I am an Aussie he is a con man.

Thats it Saturday morning has begun I have finished the weeks work as a cleaner which I had to take up to make up the money we lost using his stupid system.


----------



## sails

Hmmm - wonder if this is the same Aussie Rob from the Optionetics forum.  Not sure if he still posts there now, but when disgruntled students would post their frustrations, you could almost bet your bottom dollar that Aussie Rob would be posting a reply to sing their praises.  Never seemed to post much else except in the joke thread 

Whether the Aussie Rob mentioned in this thread is hooked up with the apparent Hubb/Optionetics/SITM conglomeration or not, in my experience, he appears to share the same slick marketing necessary to flog overpriced products.

They all make you "feel" you cannot succeed without their course or their "secrets".

He may not be the same Aussie Rob - but it raises the question in my mind and the name still irks me    .   IMO, Nothing Aussie about either Rob.

So sorry to read of those who have lost money - hopefully by sharing your experiences will spare others the same grief.  There is such a wealth of info here at ASF...


----------



## peter2

Just received my Mar/Apr copy of "Your Trading Edge" and guess who's cd is on the cover?


----------



## Timmy

peter2 said:


> Just received my Mar/Apr copy of "Your Trading Edge" and guess who's cd is on the cover?




I assume its not The Veronicas, right?


----------



## Trembling Hand

Thought I would bump this thread up just so it didn't get lost. 

For all the Idiot spammers out there thinking of trying this trick consider this.

Since posting a link to this thread on my blog and a little spiel I have been getting AT LEAST 2 hits a day from Google search with "Aussie Rob" in the search. A very popular Google search is "aussie rob lifestyle trader scam". The record hits from Google so far being 15 one day. Also had a lot of hits about three weeks ago from New Zealand Google. Them must of being doing a sales pitch there. Anyway brilliant work Mr Spamster.


----------



## just lil ol me

Aussie Rob's Lifestyle Trader that supposedly shows you when to get in and when to get out is not rocket science it is a scam yes a SCAM.  
Thank you Trembling Hand - this thread does need to keep going to warn others and bring this to a halt - visited your blog after your post and in doing so learnt a bit more about the many resources that are availalbe to us all. 
I check thread but it seems as if everyone is put off by the registering bit.  If that is you - dont worry about it it is easy and does not sign you up for anything it is just so people who are running this information goldmine can check that you are a real person with a legitimate view.  
I am not sure of counters and keeping track of things on the web but it seems as if someone from Aussie Rob LLC the American Limited Liability Company (LLC is the american equivalent to PTY LTD here in Oz) is spending a lot of time sanitising things as it disappears from the top ranks in search results very quickly.  I assume it must be how many times the searched for results appear in each article that earns the place?  If that is the case then Aussie Rob's Lifestyle Trader that supposedly shows you when to get in and when to get out is not rocket science it is a scam yes thats right Aussie Rob's Lifestyle Trader that supposedly shows you when to get in and when to get out is not rocket science it is a scam aka rip off.
Recently he - Aussie Rob aka Rob Wilson has become too busy and has had to hand over to his affiliates to promote his wonderful package in Australia does this sound a bit like he's getting out while he still can and leaving the bunnies to take the heat when the proverbial hits the fan - that is if you believed what you were told that it was Rob Wilson or Aussie Rob and not the yankee doodle dandy company Aussie Rob LLC that is trading in Oz as Aussie Rob LLC that you were dealing with - I wonder if they really can use this as it is Australia not America. I assume he is moving over to some other country and the cycle will start again....Of course this would concide with the NZ hits would it not.

If you have handed over money and signed up dont be backward in getting your licencee to help you out - you paid to learn how to trade not for a pile of useless information that makes your head spin. Your licencee is getting well rewarded with your money - yes they get a large proportion of your initial payment and then an ongoing retainer from your data feed, quite a handy little residual.  If you had a problem with your Avon or Tupperware I am sure you would contact the distributor so do the same here as this is just another multi level marketing product - it just doesnt keep your food fresh or your skin soft.


Remember - Keep smiling there is a good side to everything that happens to us, just takes time to find it.


----------



## yo yo ma

I just watched the "free DVD valued at $97"... It was quite embarrassing for him. Lucky I was quiet at work, so didn't waste 2 hours of my life. He actually states on the DVD that *high returns does not equal high risk*! He then goes through the audience and asks who has used his system? A few obvious plants then quote enormous returns over the past few weeks. Someone tries to ask him a question during the presentation- aka advertisment. Aussie Rob says he will get back to them at the end but of course, never does. That is also one of the ugliest websites I have seen.


----------



## foofighta

A huge thank you to all who have posted on this thread. I was just doing some last minute research on 'Aussie Rob' the 'Lifestyle Trader' and found this forum/thread.
You have all saved me from making a huge mistake
'Aussie Rob' is speaking in Melbourne on Monday night if anyone wants to go along and laugh at him!
Maybe Billy Boy will be in the crowd telling everyone about his amazing profits since purchasing the program

feewwwww.......


----------



## CATAPILLAR

Another soul has been saved, I too looked and listened to the speell from Aussie Robber. I too have been sucked into Optioneer. About 6 or so yrs ago I wasted $7000 on a program called Optioneer here in Adelaide. Cost me $200 a month for downloads and a blackbox. Never made a cent. But one program I use to use was Sammon and Terrington's Safety in the Market. I did actually turn $25,000 into $55,000 in one year but I was young and stupid then and didn't get out before 2001 correction. I now use my wisdom to trade.
CATAPILLAR


----------



## Timmy

Warbs and Catapillar - I hope this thread helps more people so they don't find themselves in the situation of Investa and lustlilolme.  Better to avoid this sort of trouble rather than having to fight to hopefully recover from it.


----------



## just lil ol me

Ahhh

There is a God.

Keep Safe all


----------



## yo yo ma

yo yo ma said:


> I just watched the "free DVD valued at $97"



I decided to watch the DVD again, to get the direct quotes from him.

To start off with, there is no disclaimer on the DVD. I believe he is giving financial advice and is therefore breaching the ASIC regulations.
ASIC Regulatory Guide

Aussie Rob states "The higher the return, the higher the risk; where the heck did they get that from? When you look at some of these stategies, it is the higher the return, the lower the risk. I mean how cool is that! Anyone want a slice of that action? Ok, excellent!"

A staff member named Joel states "I made $21k profit in 4 days thanks to you Aussie Rob."

James, another staff member, said he knows someone who has been trading Forex and is "up $330 grand in 2 days!"

Dennis (who works for Jamie McIntyre- he runs the seminar- another vested interest) said he is up on Soybeans 416%; Soybean Oil 388%; Soybean Meal 286%; Oats 110%. He does not give any further details on how long he has supposedly made these profits.

Aussie Rob states "A tiler, in his first month live is up 160% for the month"

He also said "This stuff makes profit week, after week, after week. Three weeks in a row we made over $20k profit but the next week was a bad one and we only made $6500. This only takes 50 minutes a week."

"We believe once a client, always a client and you should never have to put your hand in your pocket again." 
Later on he tries to charge $150 a month for the data...

There is no long term data provided... I would sum up the whole thing as a scam.


----------



## nizm0

Hi everyone , I too was about to buy this system but lucky I done some last minute research on this Aussie Rob bloke. I came accross this site and also found another site that you guys should take a look at. 

1. http://new.wizetrade.com/Info/Features.aspx
2. http://www.infomercialscams.com/scams/wizetrade

The similarities speak for themselves.


----------



## david2782

I understand, there has been much negative feedback on this product in this forum, however I have talked to several traders and have been to a couple of traders meetings and I have heard nothing but praise.



Has anyone heard or have any positive feedback on this trading system?


----------



## Trembling Hand

david2782 said:


> I understand, there has been much negative feedback on this product in this forum, however I have talked to several traders and have been to a couple of traders meetings and I have heard nothing but praise.




Seen any actual results or statements. I think not. They are welcome to post trade signals in real time or trade statements but they never do because they aren't traders. They are selling a dream.



david2782 said:


> Has anyone heard or have any positive feedback on this trading system?




No. Not yet


----------



## david2782

I have seen personal trader spreadsheet results and the percentage returns looked impressive. 

If you do not recommend Lifestyle Trader, can you recommend another software / trading strategy system.


----------



## Porper

david2782 said:


> Has anyone heard or have any positive feedback on this trading system?




All I have heard is very negative things about Lifestyle Trader.When challenged to trade live on ASF for example they  didn't want to know.However outside  ASF I have heard very negative comments also.

I would say that having to tried to bump their system on here they have shot themselves in the foot, luckily saved people from buying  a useless (in my view) piece of software.

The more this mob try to promote themselves on forums the more people will realise what it is.


----------



## Trembling Hand

david2782 said:


> I have seen personal trader spreadsheet results and the percentage returns looked impressive.




Come on you can not be serious. What a load of CRAP. What the hell does a spread sheet prove.  You need broker account statement or real time calls. Which a real trader will ALWAYS have. EVERY thing else just ADDS to the doubt of these very dodge dudes.


----------



## david2782

Thanks for your feedback, it's appreciated.

As mentioned prior....If you do not recommend Lifestyle Trader, can you recommend another commodity trading software system?


----------



## Trembling Hand

david2782 said:


> Thanks for your feedback, it's appreciated.
> 
> As mentioned prior....If you do not recommend Lifestyle Trader, can you recommend another commodity trading software system?




What a Black Box system thats tells you when to buy and when to sell that will work in all markets and is not a scam. No. Plenty of educational systems out there that will try and teach you how to trade.

But if you are looking for a lagging indicator available for free to any punter but wrapped up in marketing spin without REAL results. There is plenty of them. Do a Google search.


----------



## tech/a

david2782 said:


> I have seen personal trader spreadsheet results and the percentage returns looked impressive.
> 
> If you do not recommend Lifestyle Trader, can you recommend another software / trading strategy system.




Many here have developed their own.
You can have one of mine for $10k.


----------



## >Apocalypto<

tech/a said:


> Many here have developed their own.
> You can have one of mine for $10k.




Hey David I can beat tech u can have mine for $9,999.50 for this week only!

On a serious note, David If I had a black that actually worked I would not be wasting my time selling it I would be running it and living the life of luxury!

Mate u have to read study more reading then more study apply read more apply and keep repeating that until you can see a method that suits you. Then you have to program your mind to trade properly. There are no short cuts mate!

All the best to u.


----------



## Kauri

>Apocalypto< said:


> Hey David I can beat tech u can have mine for $9,999.50 for this week only!
> 
> 
> All the best to u.




  Haven't finished mine yet... but I'll match your price and throw in a set of falling steak knifes..
Cheers
..........Kauri


----------



## hengjin.li

Can any one suggest any system they are currently using really works? 

I have been looking around. There are many providers in the market. Some are charge brokerage, some charge education fee. I m very confused, not knowing which one should I choose. 

Is any experienced trader using Daniel Kertcher's system or something else that really works? you advice might light me up. appreciated!


----------



## Temjin

hengjin.li said:


> Can any one suggest any system they are currently using really works?
> 
> I have been looking around. There are many providers in the market. Some are charge brokerage, some charge education fee. I m very confused, not knowing which one should I choose.
> 
> Is any experienced trader using Daniel Kertcher's system or something else that really works? you advice might light me up. appreciated!




Obviously, the answer is, DESIGN YOUR OWN THAT FITS YOU!

Learn the process, how to develop it, how to test it and how to trade it. It's probably a lot easier to develop your own than finding a ready-made, blackbox system out there that actually will make you money over the long term.


----------



## IFocus

hengjin.li said:


> Is any experienced trader using Daniel Kertcher's system




Short answer is *No*

Google his name...........

My suggestion would be Nick Radge at the Chartist or Gary Stone at ShareFinder

I use Nicks service and can vouch for him and only ever heard good things about Gary Stone


----------



## Mountain Woman

investa said:


> Hi,
> 
> I bought a copy if this software last year in September (2006).
> I am happy to share my 2 cents with you all on this package.
> 
> First of all, I am a property investor/trader and I don't know much about Forex etc. Although I have had some experience paper trading options previously I am not no master in trading at all. As we all know, the property market has been booming way beyond it's actual value, we (my partner and I) started looking into other ways of investing. We came across this product through a "friend" of ours, who claimed that he has been using is and he worked for him. But later on we found out that he was promoting the product on behalf of Lifestyle Traders. (He was paid by Lifestyle Trader to attend all these seminars and tell people how much success he has with the software etc)
> 
> Well, I am a Business Systems Analyst by trade. I build software systems for companies. From a BSA's point of view, normally a software system is built to simplify things, in the case of this ARLT package, it is to simplify your trading as per claimed by Lifestyle Trader that no more technical analysis etc, i.e. you should be able to trade by the signals and make money.
> 
> Just a general observation, the entry signals generated by this software are often way too late while the exist signals appear way too late as well, therefore it is very difficult to capture the profits. First month into my paper trading, I did not trade every single signal as per stipulated in the money back guarantee (because in the seminar we were instructed to trade with a money management system) and I was a few thousand dollars in red. This is when I thought I should go by the money back guarantee and trade every signal generated by the software. (you probably found out by now that the software only displays 4 - 6 weeks worth of data)
> 
> Anyway, I went back to trade every signal generated by the software. My findings are:
> 
> The first month of trading every signal I lost US$50,000 on paper
> 
> 2 months into trading every signal generated by the software, I lost US$200,000 at one stage. But the market did come back up somehow.
> 
> 3 months into trading every signal, I lost ~ US$70,000 on paper
> 
> I used this as my baseline and I also tried trading with stop loss (only for 2 months though), however, the results did not seem to produce any paper profit either.
> 
> In the end, we had to resort to the money back guarantee and ask for our money back.
> 
> When we submitted our results to Lifestyle Traders, they refused to communicate with us, so we had to go to the Dept of Fair Trading and they even refused to talk to the Fair Trading representatives. In the end, we had to take them to the Small Claim Court (as per suggested by Fair Trading).
> 
> Good news is, Lifestyle Trader have been ordered to give us our money back.
> 
> Lifestyle Trader is very difficult to deal with... we are now helping a couple of people to get their money back as well.
> 
> I hope this helps.
> 
> investa




Hi Investa,

I too have purchased this program and am so annoyed at it's promises but lack of follow through , can you please guide me and another sucker through the refund process please.
You can contact me direct if it suits you to do so.
anneo_b@yahoo.com.au any help you can give is greatly appreciated, thanks so very much, I can put the money outlayed to very good use for our four children rather than Aussie Rob, what a total waste of a lot of time & money, neither of which we could afford to waste/lose!!

Cheers Mountain Woman!!


----------



## Mountain Woman

investa said:


> I am happy to supply my results from paper trading using the Aussie Robber product for all forumites to view.
> 
> Also I am happy to supply the CTTT's (Consumer Trader, Tenancy Tribunal) decision on my case against Aussie Robber's representatives.
> 
> investa




Hi INVESTA,

Yes please I would just love to see the CTTT's decision on your case, it may give me and others the ammo we need to follow through on our refund decisions! I will keenly await any help you can give us!!  

Cheers Mountain Woman


----------



## Trembling Hand

Hi Mountain Woman. That sucks that you have wasted money and time on this scam. At any time did you see REAL results. That is Broker statements or LIVE trades? 

Its with great sadness every day to see 10 or more hits to my blog from Google searches for "Aussie rob lifestyle trader scam ".

Still find it hard to believe that such rubbish can be pedaled out without ever supplying anything more than hindsight trades and theoretical executions.  I get so many hits I have moved up to second in Google rankings after this thread and third with the scam left out of the search. In spite of Aussie Robbers efforts to fill and clean the Google searches with his own crap.


----------



## Mountain Woman

Trembling Hand said:


> Hi Mountain Woman. That sucks that you have wasted money and time on this scam. At any time did you see REAL results. That is Broker statements or LIVE trades?
> 
> Its with great sadness every day to see 10 or more hits to my blog from Google searches for "Aussie rob lifestyle trader scam ".
> 
> Still find it hard to believe that such rubbish can be pedaled out without ever supplying anything more than hindsight trades and theoretical executions.  I get so many hits I have moved up to second in Google rankings after this thread and third with the scam left out of the search. In spite of Aussie Robbers efforts to fill and clean the Google searches with his own crap.




Hi Ya Trembling Hand!

NO not ever at any time did we see any live trade or any Broker Statments!!
We were shown charts(with the signals) and spread sheets which the Licencee did some magic with, because it was all so new to us we were like lambs to the slaughter!! Literally!! We asked to see the L'cee's proof that it works, but no that was not appropriate! We were told we needed no prior knowledge or skill with trading and "it's so easy when you know how!"
Well almost 12 months later I still don't know how!! We were also told we "Did not need any computer skills, just be able to turn on a P.C." --- ---that is absolute bulldust as it is quite complex to manage and don't even get me started on the damn platform, now that is just greek to me! I did the online sessions/lessons and came away even more confused than before, lessons and reality are poles apart!! A lot of conflicting advise from sessions as to how to place trades! 
I am looking for someone/anyone to prove to me that this program works i.e show me some real trades - not paper trades, that are for real!! I continually got rotten results from the charts/signlas, almost as if they are too late!!

Ok I'll get off my box now!

Cheers 

Mountain Woman!


----------



## Mountain Woman

just lil ol me said:


> Dont close off this thread it is the only one that returns when you search for this rogue - btw yes we are suckers we brought it and he deserves to go down promoting this to computer illiterate seniors at retirement expos then giving them nothing for their money.  Latest newsletter promotes them using their super to fund the losing lifestyle.
> 
> We were not after a quick money making venture it is promoted as a business with all expenses tax deductible (thats how he gets people to part with lots of their money) and a home study course to teach you how to trade topped off with a brightly coloured flower to attract the bees fully.....yes we got sucked in, and we are middle aged.  The poor older people who feel like fools are not going to say anything are they.
> 
> COLOR="Red"]Anyone in the same boat contact me and we will work on a scheme.[/COLOR][/COLOR]
> 
> Have done the paper trading, virtual trading and are now live and losing.
> 
> I searched for everything in google, got nothing except for sites promoting
> it.  To help others get here the words I used were Options Made Easy, Aussie Rob's Lifestyle Trader, Aussie Rob, Rob Wilson, Options Simplicity.
> 
> Go on register it is not hard to do others need to hear what you have to say.
> 
> His latest spiel is on his website it goes something like ... he is an entrepeneur (aka take ya money and run) he was also extremely busy helping others on a financial message board (why then is there not something where other purchasers of his package can talk amongst themselves - it would appear as if he does not want us to compare stories)




Hi Ya just Lil ol me!!

How I wish I found all these comments/threads about Lifestyle trader _before _I blew our hard earned money on the ARLT program!!  We were told it is so easy it's laughable!! Well we are not laughing and did not find it easy! I am not the village idiot but certainly feel like it now! *It should not be sold as a simple easy to use product!*
We followed all the rules and were confused as the rules on paper don't work in reality! The computer lab for another cool $700 plus, for each of us, was a total waste of our time/money as we were promised that we walk out knowiing how to confidently place live trades on the platform after the hands on lessons in the LAB...didn't happen, we just sat & listened to options 2 days, commodities and forex day 3 and a few silly games of best forex trader in class, what a load of rubbish. We feel we have been badly mislead with false advertising and the glib lies of how easy it is, when you ahe the right tools, MATE I know how the tools are!! The ones falsey promoting this product to peoplea as such a simple product to use, DO NOT BUY THIS PRODUCT!!!


----------



## wayneL

Added to all that is said above, a lot of the futures contracts have become rather too large for a beginner to trade.

Nooobs should be using the scalability of shares to control position size.


----------



## juw177

The most fundamental thing to learn about trading is to not to make decisions based on emotion, much of which stems from the fear of missing out on making money. Ironicly, the selling tactics used by these scam artists relies on this emotional response.


----------



## Mountain Woman

Mountain Woman said:


> Hi Investa,
> 
> I too have purchased this program and am so annoyed at it's promises but lack of follow through , can you please guide me and another sucker through the refund process please.
> You can contact me direct if it suits you to do so.
> anneo_b@yahoo.com.au *any help *you can give is greatly appreciated, thanks so very much, I can put the money outlayed to very good use for our four children rather than Aussie Rob, what a total waste of a lot of time & money, neither of which we could afford to waste/lose!!
> 
> Cheers Mountain Woman!!





Hello INVESTA,

I am desperate for you to contact me and several other disgruntled buyers of the Aussie Rob Lifestyle trader in regard to your success with an ARLT refund.

I asked for a refund 16 weeks after purchasing the product and was told by the Licencee we purchased it from that "No there will be no refund given, ARLT does all that is promises it will do for those who are 100% commited"
So what does that make me not committed to losing even more money??

She said "keep on trying and just paper trade for a few more months until you are more comfortable/relaxed with it all!! Yep that means more data feed money each month@ $129.90 a month!!

Can anyone advise us where to go and what to do, apart from Office of Fair Trading?? any  helpful suggestions welcome!!

Mountain Woman


----------



## Sean K

Golly, this is concerning.

Does the fine print cover them?

Need some law geeks to look into this I feel.

Good luck.


----------



## Trembling Hand

Mountain Woman said:


> Hello INVESTA,
> 
> I am desperate for you to contact me and several other disgruntled buyers of the Aussie Rob Lifestyle trader in regard to your success with an ARLT refund.




Mountain Woman,
Send Him/Her a PM or email via their members page.


----------



## OnceBitten

Wow !   What a thread.     I am absolutely stunned. 

About four weeks ago I attended a "workshop" by these people and to be honest it sounded like a fantastic opportunity. I have been to some of these things before and frankly they are usually just the bait to get you to take the hook.  This one also had the bait but somehow seemed a little more genuine.  The usual Money back guarantees and a little less hype made me stay around till the end.  They claimed to have established Trading clubs around Australia that one could then join to keep up to date and maintain focus, get support etc.  At the end they even told me that I could come along to one of the club meetings and talk to the members.   So I did.  We had a "trading presentation", you know, some techniques, success stories etc.  I pulled some of their members aside privately and without exception they all said,  Yep - Do it.  Its the best thing since sliced bread. 

I then asked the presenter why, if the system is so successful, dont they initially, give away the software with , say a 60 day limit.  After that 60 days,  the software locks up and you pay the fee to receive a password that will unlock it.   "Surely the smart IT people that put the stuff together in the first place can do that"  I asked.  That would give potential clients a chance to MAKE the purchase cost of the program in the first 2 months.  If it works as advertised and clients are rolling in money after two months,  they'll be tripping over themselves to pay for the unlock password.   "NO WAY - We're not in the business of giving away software".    

Well there was NO WAY I was going to part with $7500 (plus 200 per month  - the current data fee) for something that had no guarantees.   That started me to search last week for more info from unbiased sources.  eg google, this forum, and through this forum ASIC. 

I got a call from the presenter the other day, saying that they would respect the "discounted offer" of $7500 and I could attend another of their club meetings.   I told him I'd be thinking about it and would make a D  this week.  I'm in two minds about whether to attend the meet and challenge him, and his club members with some difficult questions. 

Times are tough at the moment.  Rents are outrageous, food is expensive and people are struggling.  Fuel is going the roof and thats only going to drive prices even higher.   When you're wondering where the next meal is coming from, its not difficult to forget common sense and talk yourself into thinking this could be THE ONE.  Here is our solution.  I'm no rocket scientist,  but I'm no idiot either.  I consider myself to be reasonably intelligent and I'm stunned by the sophistication and complexity of some of these schemes.  It used to be easy to detect the Nigerian Scam or the pyramid selling scheme,  but it's shameful that people will go to such lengths to rip off their fellow battlers.

In my opinion a money back guarantee should be unconditional.  Whats this "we only support those who are 100% committed" crap ? 

Thanks to Aussie Stock Forums and of course all the wise people here for saving us from these sharks.  If I had not trawled the net to do this research I might have been caught out.  Unfortunately many wont do do it and will pay the price.   How can we spread the word to a more visible and public area?

Thanks again

OnceBitten


----------



## Nick Radge

The other lesson here is the cost of the data and its 'lock in clause'. One should only buy software that enables any data to feed it, such as TradeStation or Amibroker. I pay $30 per month for EOD ASX data and I can change providers anytime. The lock in at $120 is just another catch for the unwary.


----------



## Mountain Woman

OnceBitten said:


> Wow !   What a thread.     I am absolutely stunned.
> 
> About four weeks ago I attended a "workshop" by these people and to be honest it sounded like a fantastic opportunity. I have been to some of these things before and frankly they are usually just the bait to get you to take the hook.  This one also had the bait but somehow seemed a little more genuine.  The usual Money back guarantees and a little less hype made me stay around till the end.  They claimed to have established Trading clubs around Australia that one could then join to keep up to date and maintain focus, get support etc.  At the end they even told me that I could come along to one of the club meetings and talk to the members.   So I did.  We had a "trading presentation", you know, some techniques, success stories etc.  I pulled some of their members aside privately and without exception they all said,  Yep - Do it.  Its the best thing since sliced bread.
> 
> I then asked the presenter why, if the system is so successful, dont they initially, give away the software with , say a 60 day limit.  After that 60 days,  the software locks up and you pay the fee to receive a password that will unlock it.   "Surely the smart IT people that put the stuff together in the first place can do that"  I asked.  That would give potential clients a chance to MAKE the purchase cost of the program in the first 2 months.  If it works as advertised and clients are rolling in money after two months,  they'll be tripping over themselves to pay for the unlock password.   "NO WAY - We're not in the business of giving away software".
> 
> Well there was NO WAY I was going to part with $7500 (plus 200 per month  - the current data fee) for something that had no guarantees.   That started me to search last week for more info from unbiased sources.  eg google, this forum, and through this forum ASIC.
> 
> I got a call from the presenter the other day, saying that they would respect the "discounted offer" of $7500 and I could attend another of their club meetings.   I told him I'd be thinking about it and would make a D  this week.  I'm in two minds about whether to attend the meet and challenge him, and his club members with some difficult questions.
> 
> Times are tough at the moment.  Rents are outrageous, food is expensive and people are struggling.  Fuel is going the roof and thats only going to drive prices even higher.   When you're wondering where the next meal is coming from, its not difficult to forget common sense and talk yourself into thinking this could be THE ONE.  Here is our solution.  I'm no rocket scientist,  but I'm no idiot either.  I consider myself to be reasonably intelligent and I'm stunned by the sophistication and complexity of some of these schemes.  It used to be easy to detect the Nigerian Scam or the pyramid selling scheme,  but it's shameful that people will go to such lengths to rip off their fellow battlers.
> 
> In my opinion a money back guarantee should be unconditional.  Whats this "we only support those who are 100% committed" crap ?
> 
> Thanks to Aussie Stock Forums and of course all the wise people here for saving us from these sharks.  If I had not trawled the net to do this research I might have been caught out.  Unfortunately many wont do do it and will pay the price.   How can we spread the word to a more visible and public area?
> 
> Thanks again
> 
> OnceBitten




Hi ya O.B.,

Well another one saved from the greedy clutches of you know who!Yahoo 
Yep their great at putting us suckers/buyers on the back foot , with "It's all your fault!! You are not committed enough!!" Sounds like Faith Healers- it's because of your lack of faith that you are not healed!! BULLDUST. I was very committed (or should have been for buying it) and diligently studied but the results were dismal. Had an interesting E-Mail froma trading BUddy still with ARLT, she said in a group of 15 of them only two are showing results in the black!! Wow, if they are following the same charts/rules they should all be rolling in the money, honey! Hoping to find INVESTA for some further info, will keep you posted!! 
Cheers
Mountain Woman.


----------



## Mountain Woman

nizm0 said:


> Hi everyone , I too was about to buy this system but lucky I done some last minute research on this Aussie Rob bloke. I came accross this site and also found another site that you guys should take a look at.
> 
> 1. http://new.wizetrade.com/Info/Features.aspx
> 2. http://www.infomercialscams.com/scams/wizetrade
> 
> The similarities speak for themselves.




Hi Ya Nizmo,

I checked out these sites you mentioned, they are describing a mob called wizetrade, it sounds very similar to ol mate Aussie Rob's formula, red line green line, what's your call on this? Is this why you said go look at them??
I am not suggesting they are one and the same,they just look a lot alike,
What do you think?? Anyone else got an opinion here?


Mountain Woman


----------



## Mountain Woman

Trembling Hand said:


> Mountain Woman,
> Send Him/Her a PM or email via their members page.




Thanks for that advise T.H. you are all so helpful, to us poor suckers who have been stung!! Keep your thread up there, well done!
I have sent a message out into the big blue, keenly anticipating a response from INVESTA!

Wow this thread just keeps growing, thanks to you all for your support,
It's pure shame that keeps those who have lost money on these rip-offs, from going out there and not seeking a refund, that's what ARLT and the like count on too!
They hope we will be so embrassed to say we couldn't understand it at all, that we will just go away with our tails between out legs and shut-up, Not this time Buddy!! I am really steamed up at them!!

M.W.


----------



## Trembling Hand

Mountain Woman said:


> Wow this thread just keeps growing, thanks to you all for your support,
> It's pure shame that keeps those who have lost money on these rip-offs, from going out there and not seeking a refund, that's what ARLT and the like count on too!




Mountain Woman
Instead of ARLT if you type out the full name "Aussie Rob Lifestyle Trader" you are giving the Google, Yahoo etc search bots better chance at indexing this thread. And therefor a better chance of getting the message out.


----------



## gazelle

I asked for a refund 16 weeks after purchasing the product and was told by the Licencee we purchased it from that "No there will be no refund given, ARLT does all that is promises it will do for those who are 100% commited"
So what does that make me not committed to losing even more money??


MW , they certainly look very suspicious and I was having a look at their 100% money back guarantee statement  and it appears that you have to follow the details exactly in order to recieve a refund if you are not happy with this product . Assuming you have done the home study course , have you completed step two and practice tested this system over a few markets . it might be an idea to test thie system over a broad range of mkt conditions such as choppy mkts and trending mkts , and once you have listed everything in detail such as starting capital , risk on each trade , risk vs reward etc but follow his signals to the letter and write everything up in his propriety spreadsheet . that way you will have completed step 2 and you should be elligible for the refund , assuming you have done all of this anyway 


100% MONEY BACK GUARANTEE

Step 1: Do my Home Study Course

Step 2: Practice using my Lifestyle Trader Software and track your practice trades on my Trade Trackers (Proprietary Spreadsheets that calculate your Trading Profits)

Step 3: Attend my 3 Day Hands-On Computer Lab Training Workshops

If, by completing steps 1 and 2 above and by lunch time on the 3rd day of my Hands-On Computer Lab Training, you do not feel that I have been able to teach you how to trade, I’ll give you 100% of your money back, including the datafeed! In other words, you have absolutely nothing to lose except the opportunity of changing your life!

My Promise to you is that if you are 100% committed to becoming a profitable trader and achieving total Financial Success, then my TEAM and I will be 200% committed to helping you achieve your goals.

You’re just one step away from Financial Success...


----------



## foofighta

Hi, just wanted to add my 5 cents worth and say what a great thread this is! I too was doing some last minute searches on google for ARLT before I went ahead and purchased his software. Lucky for me I came across ASF and Trembling Hands blog and was shown the light - phew!! I am so glad that the word is getting out there to stay away from these spruikers!! Keep up the good work and I look forward to reading updates of how the refund process is going.


----------



## Mountain Woman

gazelle said:


> I asked for a refund 16 weeks after purchasing the product and was told by the Licencee we purchased it from that "No there will be no refund given, ARLT does all that is promises it will do for those who are 100% commited"
> So what does that make me not committed to losing even more money??
> 
> 
> MW , they certainly look very suspicious and I was having a look at their 100% money back guarantee statement  and it appears that you have to follow the details exactly in order to recieve a refund if you are not happy with this product . Assuming you have done the home study course , have you completed step two and practice tested this system over a few markets . it might be an idea to test thie system over a broad range of mkt conditions such as choppy mkts and trending mkts , and once you have listed everything in detail such as starting capital , risk on each trade , risk vs reward etc but follow his signals to the letter and write everything up in his propriety spreadsheet . that way you will have completed step 2 and you should be elligible for the refund , assuming you have done all of this anyway
> 
> 
> 100% MONEY BACK GUARANTEE
> 
> Step 1: Do my Home Study Course
> 
> Step 2: Practice using my Lifestyle Trader Software and track your practice trades on my Trade Trackers (Proprietary Spreadsheets that calculate your Trading Profits)
> 
> Step 3: Attend my 3 Day Hands-On Computer Lab Training Workshops
> 
> If, by completing steps 1 and 2 above and by lunch time on the 3rd day of my Hands-On Computer Lab Training, you do not feel that I have been able to teach you how to trade, I’ll give you 100% of your money back, including the datafeed! In other words, you have absolutely nothing to lose except the opportunity of changing your life!
> 
> My Promise to you is that if you are 100% committed to becoming a profitable trader and achieving total Financial Success, then my TEAM and I will be 200% committed to helping you achieve your goals.
> 
> You’re just one step away from Financial Success...




HI G,

Thanks for your tips, and yes to all of the steps listed above, I had spread sheets with all the relevant details in them, Then an Affiliate of this company came to my home (at my request) to help me set up the Interactive Brokers Platform simulator, she took it upon herself to wipe the Spread Sheets clean, she said all the info was a distraction for me!! I have an I.T. Boffin working on restoring that info for me now. I will need those S/Sheets for the refund process! I am amazed how many people have bought this program and just walked away from it, they are not even bothering to attempt the refund process... Who can afford to walk away from $7,000 approx???  The aforementioned affiliate now says she can no longer look anyone in the eye and sell this program with any faith! She's not even bothering to ask for a refund.. WHY WHY WHY??
Thanks everyone for your support with this, will keep you posted about the outcome, I now have several other people who wish to join me in our request for refunds!! Wish us Luck!!!

M.W.


----------



## OnceBitten

This is getting interesting.  Looking forward to hearing how it all goes Mountain Woman.  

Good Luck


----------



## gazelle

Thanks for your tips, and yes to all of the steps listed above, I had spread sheets with all the relevant details in them, Then an Affiliate of this company came to my home (at my request) to help me set up the Interactive Brokers Platform simulator, she took it upon herself to wipe the Spread Sheets clean, she said all the info was a distraction for me!! I have an I.T. Boffin working on restoring that info for me now. I will need those S/Sheets for the refund process! I am amazed how many people have bought this program and just walked away from it, they are not even bothering to attempt the refund process... Who can afford to walk away from $7,000 approx??? The aforementioned affiliate now says she can no longer look anyone in the eye and sell this program with any faith! She's not even bothering to ask for a refund.. WHY WHY WHY??
Thanks everyone for your support with this, will keep you posted about the outcome, I now have several other people who wish to join me in our request for refunds!! Wish us Luck!!!


What a mess . She made a discretionary decision to erase your records and provide no back up because she believed these were a hinderance to your trading , gees you have gotta watch these people , I hope your friend can salvage the records otherwise you will have to go through the simulation process again and make a secondary record . It would be difficult to obtain a refund based on an  assertion that she erased your spreadsheets as these are a key factor in the refund process . at least if you can have detailed line of proof such as Investa where he details the aquired losses over a period of time this would present a better chjance of recieving a refund because it can be legitimately proven over course of trades that the indicated system performance is out of line with actual mkt results , you have to follow the system to the letter and prove this otherwise the bastards will take everything .


----------



## doctorj

gazelle said:


> at least if you can have detailed line of proof such as Investa where he details the aquired losses over a period of time this would present a better chjance of recieving a refund because it can be legitimately proven over course of trades that the indicated system performance is out of line with actual mkt results , you have to follow the system to the letter and prove this otherwise the bastards will take everything .




As an interested by-stander, why is it up to the company to decide what type of proof they require to establish the product isn't meeting the expectations set by their sales/marketing people?

Wouldn't somebody else's results using the 'system' suffice as evidence of it not working as described?  Why is it relevent who is behind the screen?


----------



## Mountain Woman

doctorj said:


> As an interested by-stander, why is it up to the company to decide what type of proof they require to establish the product isn't meeting the expectations set by their sales/marketing people?
> 
> Wouldn't somebody else's results using the 'system' suffice as evidence of it not working as described?  Why is it relevent who is behind the screen?




Hi All,

My I.T boffin has retreived the spread sheets for me, yahoo!! They were not wiped forever!:  Got some more feedback today that there are several other annoyed buyers who are now watching this site closely for some results, would be more beneficial for all concerned, if they joined us in stopping these rip-off merchants!! Keeping quiet won't solve anything!! Keep the tips coming!

M.W.


----------



## tech/a

*Tip*

Move on.
Go learn how to trade.
Move on you were duped.

With emotion like that shown here you haven't got the temperament to trade.
$7k is a decent trade.

You cant even organise yourselves to bring on a decient class action.
What hope have you got in the big bad world of trading.

*Harsh*??---reality always is.


----------



## wayneL

tech/a said:


> *Tip*
> 
> Move on.
> Go learn how to trade.
> Move on you were duped.
> 
> With emotion like that shown here you haven't got the temperament to trade.
> $7k is a decent trade.
> 
> You cant even organise yourselves to bring on a decient class action.
> What hope have you got in the big bad world of trading.
> 
> *Harsh*??---reality always is.



I don't think it's fair to leap to that conclusion based on the available evidence.

"Move on" and "learn how to trade" is good advice, but equally, if all Lifestyle Trader victims do the same, there will end up being far more victims.

We need activists as well as traders. There is no reason someone can't be both... so long as the activism doesn't impact the trading.


----------



## OnceBitten

doctorj said:


> As an interested by-stander, why is it up to the company to decide what type of proof they require to establish the product isn't meeting the expectations set by their sales/marketing people?
> 
> Wouldn't somebody else's results using the 'system' suffice as evidence of it not working as described?  Why is it relevent who is behind the screen?




Hey That's pretty good advice Tech,

Do you make a habit of just dropping off $7000 around the place and then just "Moving on" ???    If so can you please drop a bundle off at my place before you move on ??? 

Ta


----------



## Mundi

OnceBitten said:


> Hey That's pretty good advice Tech,
> 
> Do you make a habit of just dropping off $7000 around the place and then just "Moving on" ???    If so can you please drop a bundle off at my place before you move on ???
> 
> Ta




Lol
Great comeback, If only we were all as knowledgeable as Tech?
Hang in there M.W.


----------



## adobee

Mountain Woman said:


> Hi All,
> 
> My I.T boffin has retreived the spread sheets for me, yahoo!! They were not wiped forever!:  Got some more feedback today that there are several other annoyed buyers who are now watching this site closely for some results, would be more beneficial for all concerned, if they joined us in stopping these rip-off merchants!! Keeping quiet won't solve anything!! Keep the tips coming!
> 
> M.W.





This seems to be all a big complicated needing a class action etc..
If you got ripped -
1. Try searching on Ausli for past CTTT cases (or similar body in QLD)
2. Lodge a application with the CTTT stating problem and reason.. 
3. CTTT is a very easy process (I think it is the smallclaims court in QLD)
4. Present what happended to the member
5. They will make an order the company has to pay
6. There could already be a precedent here..
7. Contact the CTTT or small claims court and make an application do it today it will take about half an hour..

I have just read the whole thread and find it very ammusing I really hopped biilyybobb would post more !! you can tell he is a sales man and doesnt have that much knowledge (not that i do).. but a good sales man at that.. reminds me of the Henry Kaye days.. I am sure this guy spruiked property or something else before shares became the new vehicle..


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## tech/a

Mundi said:


> Lol
> Great comeback, If only we were all as knowledgeable as Tech?
> Hang in there M.W.




Well you wouldnt have "invested" your $7,000 here in the first place.
Put 14 yrs into your trading and youll most likely gain that knowledge.

Cost me a lot more than $7k.
When you drop a few K on your trading perhaps you should have a go at the directors of the company you invested in!

When you learn how to suffer losses you'll be in the position to learn how to maximise gains.
We've all made poor business decisions I cant remember all mine---moved on.


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## foofighta

Tech, what I don't understand is, you are telling MW to 'move on' why not go after Aussie Rob and try to stop this same senario happening to others. I think there is a difference between the emotion of being duped and a losing trade, sure, if you are trying to control both of these emotions you would do it in the same way. But why control the duped emotion, you have just been ripped off through false promises and advertising. I know for certain that I feel a lot different when I lose a trade compared to being ripped off or duped!!

Good luck MW


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## tech/a

Warbs.

I'd been reading this for 100 posts. Fine have a vent but either get on with it or get over it.

Ive been involved in enough small claims litigation to know how much of a waste of time it can be.
Get some good legal advice---join with others,sharing the cost and upping the anti.

Dont just vent--DO SOMETHING.


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## Mountain Woman

Yep you are right , I am moving on, straight to the small claims tribunal!       I have taken action, Yep I have a few others banding with me now!

$7,000 is a lot of dough to lose for anyone, maybe in 14 years I too will have the expertise to drop this kind of money and not flinch. 
It's proactive people who fight for a cause who hopefully prevent the  assholes so glibly ripping-off others, if we all walked away without a fight, then these mongrels win every time!!! 

Nah, I won't walk away,that would teach my kids a bad lesson, "that "**** happens but you just have to take it"...Hell no... I'll see it out to the end.

M.W.


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## tech/a

Mountain Woman said:


> Yep you are right , I am moving on, straight to the small claims tribunal!       I have taken action, Yep I have a few others banding with me now!
> 
> $7,000 is a lot of dough to lose for anyone, maybe in 14 years I too will have the expertise to drop this kind of money and not flinch.
> It's proactive people who fight for a cause who hopefully prevent the  assholes so glibly ripping-off others, if we all walked away without a fight, then these mongrels win every time!!!
> 
> Nah, I won't walk away,that would teach my kids a bad lesson, "that "**** happens but you just have to take it"...Hell no... I'll see it out to the end.
> 
> M.W.




You go girl!

I suppose your into "Mountain Men?"


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## Mountain Woman

tech/a said:


> You go girl!
> 
> I suppose your into "Mountain Men?"




Yeah Baby, but only mine!! thats why we have four rug rats!!!!  LOL


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## Mountain Woman

wayneL said:


>




Ok wayne what do the letters ROTFLMFAO mean??

M.W.


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## nomore4s

Mountain Woman said:


> Ok wayne what do the letters ROTFLMFAO mean??
> 
> M.W.




Rolling on the floor laughing my f****** a*** off.


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## wayneL

Mountain Woman said:


> Ok wayne what do the letters ROTFLMFAO mean??
> 
> M.W.




Hi MW

*R*olling *O*n *T*he *F*loor *L*aughing *M*y *F****ing *A*rse *O*ff.

Good luck with your action.


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## Temjin

wayneL said:


> Hi MW
> 
> *R*olling *O*n *T*he *F*loor *L*aughing *M*y *F****ing *A*rse *O*ff.
> 
> Good luck with your action.




Heh Excuse the internet language here.  Your kids might understand them more. 

Good luck with those who are trying to get your money back.


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## investa

david2782 said:


> I understand, there has been much negative feedback on this product in this forum, however I have talked to several traders and have been to a couple of traders meetings and I have heard nothing but praise.




Well, put it this way, if you say anything negative about Lifestyle Trader and/or their product, it's highly likely that you will get a letter from their solicitor (is it Robert Friend from Bell Legals?) threatening to sue you for defamation. I guess most people aren't terribly interested in getting themselves into legal proceedings that they rather say nothing.



david2782 said:


> Has anyone heard or have any positive feedback on this trading system?




I am a victim myself. I am currently helping a few other victims. The these victims are looking to refer other victims to me.... 

Sorry mate, no positive feedback yet.

investa


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## investa

Hi TH,

I don't blame Mountain Woman for not checking the broker statements. Like I said, Lifestyle Trader is scamming beginners, because beginners know very little about trading and they wouldn't know what due diligence is necessary to check out these self proclaimed "Gurus".

I like what Alexander Elder said in his book, the real gurus don't waste time teaching you how to trade. They would rather spend the time in trading and profiting from the market.

Don't be too harsh on the beginners, but let this be a lesson to those who got burned by Rob Wilson.

Investa



Trembling Hand said:


> Hi Mountain Woman. That sucks that you have wasted money and time on this scam. At any time did you see REAL results. That is Broker statements or LIVE trades?
> 
> Its with great sadness every day to see 10 or more hits to my blog from Google searches for "Aussie rob lifestyle trader scam ".
> 
> Still find it hard to believe that such rubbish can be pedaled out without ever supplying anything more than hindsight trades and theoretical executions.  I get so many hits I have moved up to second in Google rankings after this thread and third with the scam left out of the search. In spite of Aussie Robs efforts to fill and clean the Google searches with his own crap.


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## investa

The reason why Lifestyle Trader can get away with all these is because they know that most people will just "move on". 

IMHO, yes you will need to move on, but moving on has nothing to do with whether you further pursue the matter or not. Why can't you go through the CTTT proceedings while you learn to trade? You were once a beginner, you know that for a beginner to make that $7000 from trading ain't easy.

investa



tech/a said:


> *Tip*
> 
> Move on.
> Go learn how to trade.
> Move on you were duped.
> 
> With emotion like that shown here you haven't got the temperament to trade.
> $7k is a decent trade.
> 
> You cant even organise yourselves to bring on a decient class action.
> What hope have you got in the big bad world of trading.
> 
> *Harsh*??---reality always is.


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## tech/a

investa said:


> The reason why Lifestyle Trader can get away with all these is because they know that most people will just "move on".
> 
> IMHO, yes you will need to move on, but moving on has nothing to do with whether you further pursue the matter or not. Why can't you go through the CTTT proceedings while you learn to trade? You were once a beginner, you know that for a beginner to make that $7000 from trading ain't easy.
> 
> investa




Sure was and lost $20k in my first 6 mths after topping the state in technical analysis 101 with the Securities Institute.

8 yrs later I learnt its NOT about the analysis.
Another 3 yrs further on and its NOT about How you trade (Systems,Discretionary etc).
Once you know HOW to trade profitably you *KNOW WHAT YOU DONT NEED TO KNOW.*

Do whatever it is you need to do--but move on ---youve learnt a $7000 lesson one you'll never forget.
There is only ONE way to make profit and 100s of ways of trading.


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## Trembling Hand

investa said:


> Hi TH,
> 
> I don't blame Mountain Woman for not checking the broker statements. Like I said, Lifestyle Trader is scamming beginners, because beginners know very little about trading




I wasn't I was just asking a question.


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## maximillian

Timmy you have valid points and I support your findings and,
Google please find the following: 
Aussie Rob Lifestyle Trader, deceptive and misleading conduct, breach of section 53 Trade Practices Act, unethical conduct, misrepresentation, conduct that is deceptive or misleading or likely to be deceptive or misleading. 


Billyboy claimed that the Aussie Robber software is not a "blackbox".
That means the indicator is not proprietary and as such it can be 
disclosed.  It is the Heiken-Ashi Averages with price bars removed.
Also it's not legally tenable to claim something that is already
public knowledge as being proprietary.  So you can see that it's
not legally valid to call it a "blackbox" either because the inference
is that, it is not already public knowledge.  He's kind of painted
himself into a corner there, but false claims still abound like,
stating it is not based on averages or is not lagging. Even the 
claim of it being based on supply and demand is misleading as any
price bars can be said to be a measure of supply and demand.
Heiken-Ashi is actually Japanese for average bar.
The stoploss used is a 3 x ATR(5).

Here's is the indicator and formula with average price bars shown.
The reason why price bars are not shown on any of their charts is
that, it would easily be detected by a perceptive trader.

Aussie Robber, your secret is out!


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## Joe Blow

Just a few links for those who were wondering how the Aussie Rob Lifestyle Trader saga eventually ended.

Aussie Rob (Robert Wilson) was last seen in Laos in September last year, trying to avoid justice by claiming he couldn't return to Australia to appear in court due to an injured coccyx bone that made it impossible for him to sit or travel: http://www.couriermail.com.au/busin...sbane-court-date/story-fnihsps3-1226715072730

At the same time, evidence from Wilson's Facebook page was presented to the Supreme Court by liquidator Gavin Morton showing him apparently leading an active life.

The following month ASIC banned him from providing financial services and warned the public not to deal with him: https://asic.gov.au/about-asic/news...es/13-282mr-asic-bans-businessman-aussie-rob/

His latest scam is called Connect Private Wealth: http://connectprivatewealth.com

Needless to say that anything connected to this unscrupulous snake oil salesman should be avoided at all costs.


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