# Crude intraday



## RobinHood

hi

just curious, anyone here playing crude or nat gas futures?

I've been observing it a little lately due to my work hours..

What are the other instruments you find essential in following alongside crude? Right now all I really watch along-side the crude book is the ES book. anything else you guys would think important?


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## wayneL

RobinHood said:


> hi
> 
> just curious, anyone here playing crude or nat gas futures?
> 
> I've been observing it a little lately due to my work hours..
> 
> What are the other instruments you find essential in following alongside crude? Right now all I really watch along-side the crude book is the ES book. anything else you guys would think important?




Keep an eye on DX or EUR/USD as proxy for reverse correlation.

I find NG is bit thin and the spreads a bit wide to day trade... and it can be a monster. But CL (or QM) is a fantastic vehicle to trade.


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## RobinHood

Thanks wayne. 

Interesting today, trade balance comes in worse and ES and DAX get heavily offered yet crude and non-US currencies seem to hold up and Yen no longer inversely correlated to them. now we reverse on the ES open, equities bid up and bonds offered.


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## GumbyLearner

Dont forget the geo-politics Mr. Robin Hood. Just takes a few nutters to blow up some gas pipelines and bang there goes the price.

Quite volatile when you consider something like this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/11/world/11nations.html


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## GumbyLearner

All of these guys understand....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJLzvPesVxc :band


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## MRC & Co

Yeh, I think crude is one of the best instruments to read the flow of price action.  You can also see strong resistance and support points build up in the book and levels being defended.  

But you would need a big account to trade it.


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## Naked shorts

RobinHood said:


> I've been observing it a little lately due to my work hours..
> 
> What are the other instruments you find essential in following alongside crude? Right now all I really watch along-side the crude book is the ES book. anything else you guys would think important?




Following the goings on the IEA's website might help
http://www.iea.org/


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## Naked shorts

GumbyLearner said:


> All of these guys understand....
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJLzvPesVxc :band




lol wtf has that got to do with crude? nice clip anyhow


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## wayneL

MRC & Co said:


> Yeh, I think crude is one of the best instruments to read the flow of price action.  You can also see strong resistance and support points build up in the book and levels being defended.
> 
> But you would need a big account to trade it.




Yep the big NYMEX contract (CL) is 1000 bbls so $1000USD per $1.00 of movement. That can be a monster for a small account.

A couple of alternatives are:

The emiNY contact (QM) which is half the size of CL. 

The US stock code USO which is an ETF that tracks the oil price. Trade as many shares as risk parameters allow. 

All are liquid enough to trade intraday.


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## ThingyMajiggy

Many of you guys still trade the CL intra-day?


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## MRC & Co

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Many of you guys still trade the CL intra-day?




Yeh.  It's good, but large spreads and very thin.


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## ThingyMajiggy

MRC & Co said:


> Yeh.  It's good, but large spreads and very thin.




As in during our day time? or you trade the first hour or so of the US open? 

Been playing with it today, and it seems really good to trade, I've actually done better off that today than I have off the SPI. Everyone is asleep over there, yet its still more active than the spi lol 

Looking forward to having a go at it tonight.


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## Trembling Hand

ThingyMajiggy said:


> As in during our day time? or you trade the first hour or so of the US open?
> 
> Been playing with it today, and it seems really good to trade, I've actually done better off that today than I have off the SPI. Everyone is asleep over there, yet its still more active than the spi lol
> 
> Looking forward to having a go at it tonight.




Its a different story during cash hours. Lots more volume and *really *fast moves.

I reckon the sweet spot is around Europe open to before US open (9:00 am New York time)


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## ThingyMajiggy

Trembling Hand said:


> Its a different story during cash hours. Lots more volume and *really *fast moves.




Sounds perfect 



Trembling Hand said:


> I reckon the sweet spot is around Europe open to before US open (9:00 am New York time)




Yeah I see it starts to pick up around DAX open onwards, then goes nuts when U.S kicks in.


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## lukeaye

I've heard alot about crude, and never actually traded it. Im going to give it a go. Just wondering what kind of spreads you guys get from your dealers. Im using IG markets, and looking at the spread now it is 8 points. 

That is pretty hard to trade off don't you think? I will have to see what it goes to during EURO US session, maybe 4 - 6? Not sure as i said i havent traded it, but just seems wide. Might have to adapt the style of trading to suit the wider spread then?


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## Trembling Hand

lukeaye said:


> I've heard alot about crude, and never actually traded it. Im going to give it a go. Just wondering what kind of spreads you guys get from your dealers. Im using IG markets, and looking at the spread now it is 8 points.
> 
> That is pretty hard to trade off don't you think? I will have to see what it goes to during EURO US session, maybe 4 - 6? Not sure as i said i havent traded it, but just seems wide. Might have to adapt the style of trading to suit the wider spread then?






the broker doesn't provide the spread, the Market does. UNLESS you are trading against your "broker", MM CFDs.

Forget about trading that rubbish. You will get nowhere giving up 8 points on entry and 8 points on exit.


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## ThingyMajiggy

:iagree:

Sacrificing 8 points on entry and exit, you would have no hope Luke.


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## lukeaye

Trembling Hand said:


> the broker doesn't provide the spread, the Market does. UNLESS you are trading against your "broker", MM CFDs.
> 
> Forget about trading that rubbish. You will get nowhere giving up 8 points on entry and 8 points on exit.




Yes i understand that, but i am trading against the broker on CFD. So that is the problem then ey?

What do you guys trade?




ThingyMajiggy said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Sacrificing 8 points on entry and exit, you would have no hope Luke.




yeah thats what i thought, given that i can get 1 pip on currency, or 2 ticks on an index, makes it hard to justify, and blows my plan out of the water.


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## MRC & Co

Don't get too excited Sam, CL today (Asian time) was as volatile as it gets, it's generally dead, lucky to get 1-2 moves in the entire day, but there was a lot of volume today.

Best times IMO, are those 1-2 moves during Asian timezone, about 30 mins before pit open and first 1-2 hours of the pit session.  But crap timezone.  Worst timezone, last hour of pit session.  Irrational moves, similar to what the SPI has been doing lately, which I find impossible to trade.  

All depends with how your trying to trade it I guess.


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## ThingyMajiggy

MRC & Co said:


> Don't get too excited Sam, CL today (Asian time) was as volatile as it gets, it's generally dead, lucky to get 1-2 moves in the entire day, but there was a lot of volume today.
> 
> Best times IMO, are those 1-2 moves during Asian timezone, about 30 mins before pit open and first 1-2 hours of the pit session.  But crap timezone.  Worst timezone, last hour of pit session.  Irrational moves, similar to what the SPI has been doing lately, which I find impossible to trade.
> 
> All depends with how your trying to trade it I guess.




Cheers for the heads up.  Will give it a go and see how things end up, I quite liked it today, DAX open now so watching to see how much it picks up.


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## Naked shorts

Trembling Hand said:


> I reckon the sweet spot is around Europe open to before US open (9:00 am New York time)




Amen, I had a go at it the other night, and found it quite easy during those hours.. but as soon as it hit 830am EST... all hell broke lose, I knew it would be fast... but it was Fu*King fast!


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## white_goodman

Naked shorts said:


> Amen, I had a go at it the other night, and found it quite easy during those hours.. but as soon as it hit 830am EST... all hell broke lose, I knew it would be fast... but it was Fu*King fast!




yeah i really enjoy those euro hours for oil, currencies, gold, S&P etc, nice action but not too hectic (generally)


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## ThingyMajiggy

MRC & Co said:


> but there was a lot of volume today.




Damn! Got that right! I take it this is enormous volume at the moment? Up around the 10-12K, considering Fridays volume around the same time was like 2-500, and max of about 7.5K in the US session.


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## Trembling Hand

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Damn! Got that right! I take it this is enormous volume at the moment? Up around the 10-12K, considering Fridays volume around the same time was like 2-500, and max of about 7.5K in the US session.




Is there something up with IBs volume??


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## ThingyMajiggy

Trembling Hand said:


> Is there something up with IBs volume??




Must be, what are you getting? 

Its up around 80K on mine! 

...make that 120K


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## ThingyMajiggy

Must be a data issue, I tried refreshing it and its still doing it. 

No one else getting size coming through like this are they? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OziFGnNSvDM


Can't seem to get the video to show up on here?


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## MRC & Co

It was very big volume, well the moves were at least.  Generally a couple hundred contracts in 5 minutes is pretty decent, today one bar had over 1000!!!!  

Reason I like day session, is it's so thin, you can see paper clearly when it comes in, and paper can move the market quite easily!  Trouble is, you have to do size to take advantage of it, and if you get in trouble, you may have to take out a few levels to get out!

Start of pit-session gets a lot of US figures in the same time, along with a lot of crazy paper getting in there doing all kinds of things, so you can spot some, but it is a scary timezone, it can get very hectic and you can easily get caught in the heat and speed of it which means it's def not for those with a weak stomach or not used to live trading, but I reckon if you lived in their timezone, with the speed you have over there, and all the paper in it, it could be an absolute mint with it's volatility AND volume!!!!  *On that note, anyone even heard of any US prop firms which offer CL futures trading?*  I wouldn't mind looking into it down the track.  

Before it opens, you get some guys trying to pre-empt it, so you can sometimes get a feel for the pit open by this IMO.  

Europe for me is still thin, can be very quiet and is harder to spot any paper.  But I haven't watched Europe for several months now.  

Again though, 90% of all my crude trades are simply order flow, so smooth chart moves etc don't mean much to me which is what some of these other guys may be talking about............?


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## Trembling Hand

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Must be a data issue, I tried refreshing it and its still doing it.




IB had an announcement early this morning about NYMEX not available. It seems to be linked. You can trade it but their data is stuffed today by the looks of things.


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## ThingyMajiggy

Trembling Hand said:


> IB had an announcement early this morning about NYMEX not available. It seems to be linked. You can trade it but their data is stuffed today by the looks of things.




Yeah its gotta be something skew wiff somewhere! I've logged out and back in again, reloaded everything and its still like it, must be IBs end. 

Its weird, seemed fine earlier today, just happened in the last hour or two.


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## Trembling Hand

MRC & Co said:


> On that note, anyone even heard of any US prop firms which offer CL futures trading?[/B]  I wouldn't mind looking into it down the track.




Couple of lists here, I guess look for the one that are futs based and in Chicago or New York. My preference would be NY 

http://www.traderslog.com/proprietarytradingfirms/

http://www.trading-lab.com/forums/chicago_prop_firms-t236.html?

http://www.tradersnarrative.com/list-of-proprietary-trading-firms-735.html


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## ThingyMajiggy

Just got in touch with IB, they know they have the problem and their programmers are onto it.


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## MRC & Co

Yeh, had a look through quite a few of them, but couldn't find many discretionary futs ones in the US for some reason!  Let alone in Chic or NY    Will search further when I get a lot more time!

NY wouldn't be as cold, and would prob be quicker considering you would be sitting somewhere near the NYMEX.  Reckon with the speed and MUCH cheaper bro you would get over there, money would be farily easy pickings in that market!  Nxt is trying to get their Gov to let you work there as a prop trader, can't imagine they would take too kindly to our kind!  

Maybe in a few years if I'm not a brirrionaire by then!


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## Sakk

Trembling Hand said:


> IB had an announcement early this morning about NYMEX not available. It seems to be linked. You can trade it but their data is stuffed today by the looks of things.




TH, what market data subscription is required with IB to trade crude.  Can't see NYMEX in the market data subscription page??


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## Naked shorts

MRC & Co said:


> *On that note, anyone even heard of any US prop firms which offer CL futures trading?*  I wouldn't mind looking into it down the track.



Might be worth asking on here, in the residents questions section.
https://village.albourne.com
I thought it would be a bit of a joke at first, but the quality of the responses I got from people was surprisingly very high. Also, the number of comments in responses means nothing, everyone just PM's you.



MRC & Co said:


> Again though, 90% of all my crude trades are simply order flow, so smooth chart moves etc don't mean much to me which is what some of these other guys may be talking about............?




Me? Yes of course I need smooth charts for my 50/200 MA crossover system


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## Naked shorts

Had another crack at it tonight... and well, you know what... I think im in love! Its so easy to read, and it always seems to be wanting to move somewhere, plus its quite easy to get in on a runner.

CL where have you been all my life!


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## ThingyMajiggy

Naked shorts said:


> Had another crack at it tonight... and well, you know what... I think im in love! Its so easy to read, and it always seems to be wanting to move somewhere, plus its quite easy to get in on a runner.
> 
> CL where have you been all my life!




Get back, she's mine!! 

Its great to trade, compared to everything else I trade anyway, and it seems real easy to get in and out, missed out on a couple of ripper trades too last night  

You trade the first hour or so Naked? .....ok that sounds bad.


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## Naked shorts

ThingyMajiggy said:


> You trade the first hour or so Naked? .....ok that sounds bad.




I traded from about 930est onwards. I wasnt in the thick of the massive wild swings like I was the other day.


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## MRC & Co

ThingyMajiggy said:


> You trade the first hour or so Naked? .....ok that sounds bad.




LOL!!!!

Thx for the link Naked.  Will check it out.


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## ThingyMajiggy

Oil rocks.

Anyone catch that short from 83? I got filled @ 83.10, it was gooood  see what you guys mean when you say _really_ fast though, I should have milked it for all its worth, but instead I just gave the tit one yank 

Should have reversed it after I got out too, something that I need more work on, I often notice how its usually a strong move the opposite way once I'm out, but I exit and leave it at that, content with what I have done, lots of good opportunities missed out on though I think.


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## Naked shorts

ThingyMajiggy said:


> lots of good opportunities missed out on though I think.



Thats for f*king sure.
but when you do catch one...


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## ThingyMajiggy

lol, up the stairs and down the elevator anyone? 

 What a sweet move, it was like a freight train, definitely steak for dinner for those who caught that 

I think I got it all backwards, it should be sleep all day, trade all night  SPI is like watching paint dry after HSI and Crude :

Its still trying to go lower too


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## SuperGlue

Sure is a big move................

Sometimes your stop loss will not trigger if the gap is too close. Been caught a number of times.

Have a look at Google - code GOOG  When it is hot o mannnnnnn...

Good to trade the US market, but after sometime my body clock goes cuckoooooo.


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## Naked shorts

ThingyMajiggy said:


> lol, up the stairs and down the elevator anyone?
> 
> What a sweet move, it was like a freight train, definitely steak for dinner for those who caught that
> 
> I think I got it all backwards, it should be sleep all day, trade all night  SPI is like watching paint dry after HSI and Crude :
> 
> Its still trying to go lower too




whats that blue and green indicator u got going on?


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## ThingyMajiggy

Naked shorts said:


> whats that blue and green indicator u got going on?




Frank D.


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## Kryzz

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Frank D.




Fibonnaci trader?


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## ThingyMajiggy

Kryzz said:


> Fibonnaci trader?




AmiBroker and NinjaTrader.


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## >Apocalypto<

*Calling all Crude day Traders.*

I have been having a good look at crude this week. quite the market. From what i have seen this week compared to FX in behavior, a lot better.

Are any other members playing CL on intraday? 

Well I am planning to start live trading on it next week through Interactive Brokers. i am planing to start on a very short term see how it goes.

I read Wednesday's can be interesting due to oil inventories report. 

please join in any other oil traders here on asf with information or trades.


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## ThingyMajiggy

*Re: Calling all Crude day Traders.*



>Apocalypto< said:


> I have been having a good look at crude this week. quite the market. From what i have seen this week compared to FX in behavior, a lot better.
> 
> Are any other members playing CL on intraday?
> 
> Well I am planning to start live trading on it next week through Interactive Brokers. i am planing to start on a very short term see how it goes.
> 
> I read Wednesday's can be interesting due to oil inventories report.
> 
> please join in any other oil traders here on asf with information or trades.




Love CL!! 

Tonight has been one hell of a night in the US, some real movement, great for us intra-dayers  

There is another thread on Crude Intraday, dunno if wanna go over there, upto the mods, I'm not fussed.

ES a 20 point range too so far! Hasn't done that in a while.


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## >Apocalypto<

*Re: Calling all Crude day Traders.*



ThingyMajiggy said:


> Love CL!!
> 
> Tonight has been one hell of a night in the US, some real movement, great for us intra-dayers
> 
> There is another thread on Crude Intraday, dunno if wanna go over there, upto the mods, I'm not fussed.




sorry to start a new thread then..... got a link for it? 

Yeh tonight was something special! but the whole week has been very strong.  is this the general mood of the market or is this above average volatility?


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## ThingyMajiggy

*Re: Calling all Crude day Traders.*



>Apocalypto< said:


> sorry to start a new thread then..... got a link for it?
> 
> Yeh tonight was something special! but the whole week has been very strong.  is this the general mood of the market or is this above average volatility?




Nah don't apologize, I'm fine with a new thread, prefer it actually. 

Well for me personally, I haven't seen the ES this active for a fair while(I think it was consumer sentiment that sent everything into a spiral tonight?), it has been relatively quiet since I have been following it, I think it used to be like it is tonight a while back, CL on the other hand is usually pretty nuts, very fast, Gold is similar to CL, both really good to trade. 

Link to other thread: https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13676


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## nomore4s

Threads have been merged.

Crude rocks, Gold is also ok but I prefer Crude.

Has been a very good week for trading CL & GC.


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## >Apocalypto<

Thanks Nomore,

I was about repost info in here.

cheers


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## baby_swallow

*Re: Calling all Crude day Traders.*



ThingyMajiggy said:


> Nah don't apologize, I'm fine with a new thread, prefer it actually.
> 
> Well for me personally, I haven't seen the ES this active for a fair while(I think it was consumer sentiment that sent everything into a spiral tonight?), it has been relatively quiet since I have been following it, I think it used to be like it is tonight a while back, CL on the other hand is usually pretty nuts, very fast, Gold is similar to CL, both really good to trade.
> 
> Link to other thread: https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13676




Hi guys, good to see some night owls.
Have you tried Nymex copper? It moves quite well. I'm not trading it but I monitor it. I'm more into ES. Right now it hit a weekly PP support and just stayed there. Big new in the US about Goldman Sucks.


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## >Apocalypto<

*Re: Calling all Crude day Traders.*



ThingyMajiggy said:


> Nah don't apologize, I'm fine with a new thread, prefer it actually.
> 
> CL on the other hand is usually pretty nuts, very fast, Gold is similar to CL, both really good to trade.




that's great to hear, as I have found it alot more cleaner then FX on intraday. It's actually very exciting to find this. I am still not sure what time frame I will tackel it on. I will start on 2min see if it's to short, has been going fine all week on the sim account. Fast but not to fast to handle. comms are also great $2.31 a side very cheap.

while i wrote the thread another ent came and went for .20 cents!

glad to see other members are also trading CL on the intraday.


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## nomore4s

*Re: Calling all Crude day Traders.*



>Apocalypto< said:


> that's great to hear, as I have found it alot more cleaner then FX on intraday. It's actually very exciting to find this. I am still not sure what time frame I will tackel it on. I will start on 2min see if it's to short, has been going fine all week on the sim account. Fast but not to fast to handle. comms are also great $2.31 a side very cheap.
> 
> while i wrote the thread another ent came and went for .20 cents!
> 
> glad to see other members are also trading CL on the intraday.




Lots of movement, good trends.

I trade off 1 min charts and find it very clean, I personally don't like FX and after trading this you can understand why:


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## Frank D

Anything that’s run out of US exchanges and you’ll see the same
 patterns over and over again

Pick a number of markets like the S&P, Crude & Euro and just wait for 
the patterns to appear.

I’m not sure it makes a difference whether it’s a 1 minute chart  or a 
2minute chart, it’s finding the trades that align with support & 
resistance levels.

If it doesn't align in Crude i'm sure there's a trade in the S&P or Euro.


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## ThingyMajiggy

Frank D said:


> Anything that’s run out of US exchanges and you’ll see the same
> patterns over and over again
> 
> Pick a number of markets like the S&P, Crude & Euro and just wait for
> the patterns to appear.
> 
> I’m not sure it makes a difference whether it’s a 1 minute chart  or a
> 2minute chart, it’s finding the trades that align with support &
> resistance levels.
> 
> If it doesn't align in Crude i'm sure there's a trade in the S&P or Euro.




Yeah I agree with Frank here, be great if you could keep posting in here too Frank 

There is some really good alignment/correlation between the US zone markets,   it was really good last night, watching the currencies along with the ES and Gold all with CL.


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## Naked shorts

*Re: Calling all Crude day Traders.*



>Apocalypto< said:


> I have been having a good look at crude this week. quite the market. From what i have seen this week compared to FX in behavior, a lot better.
> 
> Are any other members playing CL on intraday?
> 
> Well I am planning to start live trading on it next week through Interactive Brokers. i am planing to start on a very short term see how it goes.
> 
> I read Wednesday's can be interesting due to oil inventories report.
> 
> please join in any other oil traders here on asf with information or trades.




If youve have only been watching it a week, probably best to keep simming before going live. You can loose alot of money really fast on this thing.

I would never consider trading it off a 1min chart!! and if you take your entries from a DOM then you might need to consider using Booktrader or Xtrader because NT cant show the 10 levels for each side that is sent out by the exchange.

All I'd say is you need to be able to quickly flip and reverse without hesitation but at the same time be able to ride it when its starting to move because it can go 100ticks either way at the drop of a hat. 

Its definitely a leading market, it does what it wants and a lot of the time other things follow.


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## >Apocalypto<

*Re: Calling all Crude day Traders.*



Naked shorts said:


> If youve have only been watching it a week, probably best to keep simming before going live. You can loose alot of money really fast on this thing.




Hi NS, thanks for your post.

due to two facts I will start trading live this week. 1. I have not changed systems so the rules are the same no need to get in sync with new rules in approach. 2. I have had a lot of experience trading on a 1min time frame. I traded the GBP/JPY and cable for many months.



> I would never consider trading it off a 1min chart!! and if you take your entries from a DOM then you might need to consider using Booktrader or Xtrader because NT cant show the 10 levels for each side that is sent out by the exchange.




I will start on 2min and see how that goes. If it's to fast I will move up. I only use book trader to trade like this.



> All I'd say is you need to be able to quickly flip and reverse without hesitation but at the same time be able to ride it when its starting to move because it can go 100ticks either way at the drop of a hat.




No I don't flip and it's not fast compared to what I have seen on the GBP/JPY. depending on the range I shoot for 2x what it is. once in a position I get to BE ASAP.... if the range is 10+ I try to hod a little longer, as the vol is up. there's a few more things to it but no point listing em all.

I use Nt for charting. why Oil is so attractive is its nature of movement compared to FX, the movements are cleaner IMO.

cheers,


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## ThingyMajiggy

*Re: Calling all Crude day Traders.*



>Apocalypto< said:


> Hi NS, thanks for your post.
> 
> due to two facts I will start trading live this week. 1. I have not changed systems so the rules are the same no need to get in sync with new rules in approach. 2. I have had a lot of experience trading on a 1min time frame. I traded the GBP/JPY and cable for many months.
> 
> 
> 
> I will start on 2min and see how that goes. If it's to fast I will move up. I only use book trader to trade like this.
> 
> 
> 
> No I don't flip and it's not fast compared to what I have seen on the GBP/JPY. depending on the range I shoot for 2x what it is. once in a position I get to BE ASAP.... if the range is 10+ I try to hod a little longer, as the vol is up. there's a few more things to it but no point listing em all.
> 
> I use Nt for charting. why Oil is so attractive is its nature of movement compared to FX, the movements are cleaner IMO.
> 
> cheers,




I prefer trading it off the 1 min chart, and I haven't seen it lead anything yet, other way round if anything....but thats just me, just go with what you feel suits you best and stare. But I'm sure you've heard all that before, so I'll just shut up 

Good luck


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## >Apocalypto<

*Re: Calling all Crude day Traders.*



ThingyMajiggy said:


> I prefer trading it off the 1 min chart, and I haven't seen it lead anything yet, other way round if anything....but thats just me, just go with what you feel suits you best and stare. But I'm sure you've heard all that before, so I'll just shut up
> 
> Good luck




thanks Sam,

you nailed it, each to their own in this business. what works for you may not work for me. and what NS thinks is the way is not the way i trade or possibly feel comfortable with.

hope your picking up some points.

here's the story so far tonight, i am still in shock another clean profitable afternoon early evening.


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## ThingyMajiggy

*Re: Calling all Crude day Traders.*



>Apocalypto< said:


> thanks Sam,
> 
> you nailed it, each to their own in this business. what works for you may not work for me. and what NS thinks is the way is not the way i trade or possibly feel comfortable with.
> 
> hope your picking up some points.
> 
> here's the story so far tonight, i am still in shock another clean profitable afternoon early evening.




What are the circles? They the trades you took?


----------



## >Apocalypto<

*Re: Calling all Crude day Traders.*



ThingyMajiggy said:


> What are the circles? They the trades you took?




The circles are entries that met my rules.

I will be going live very soon. having a issue were I can't place orders in May contract due to physical delivery rules at the exchange? 

calling them about it now.


----------



## nomore4s

*Re: Calling all Crude day Traders.*



>Apocalypto< said:


> The circles are entries that met my rules.
> 
> I will be going live very soon. having a issue were I can't place orders in May contract due to physical delivery rules at the exchange?
> 
> calling them about it now.




Expires today, need to trade the June contract.


----------



## >Apocalypto<

*Re: Calling all Crude day Traders.*



nomore4s said:


> Expires today, need to trade the June contract.




BLESS YOU Nomore4s! :bier: I bet you can tell I am still a cash market player! 

cheers


----------



## >Apocalypto<

not bad depth for this time in the day in the JUN contract...... (comparing to what I have seen in the may)

also for any other CL newbies I have attached the Energy calendar for 2010, has all the expires and more. 

cheers


----------



## nomore4s

*Re: Calling all Crude day Traders.*



>Apocalypto< said:


> BLESS YOU Nomore4s! :bier: I bet you can tell I am still a cash market player!
> 
> cheers




lol, one of the traps. If you double click on the contract in IB or right click and bring up the contract info it has the expiry date in there for you as well as other info.

CL is a great contract to trade imo, good clean moves, trends well and quite easy to read and great for scalping small moves off a 1 min chart, really suits my "style" to a tee.

Good to see you are also finding it good to trade, I personally have never been able to get into forex.


----------



## Naked shorts

*Re: Calling all Crude day Traders.*



ThingyMajiggy said:


> I prefer trading it off the 1 min chart, and I haven't seen it lead anything yet, other way round if anything....but thats just me, just go with what you feel suits you best and stare. But I'm sure you've heard all that before, so I'll just shut up
> 
> Good luck




I've got plenty of videos and documented moments where oil clearly leads everything else... during peak market hours that is. During 3am EST chop it generally follows ES, but i haven't really looked at it then. 

I have seen plenty of times when oil is just sitting near a breakout point, everything else is on the verge of breaking out, oil starts to pull back, then ES Gold bonds USD follow.. then oil smashes through the support/resistance and everything else starts to follow and also breaks out. Doesnt always happen but enough for me to notice it.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

*Re: Calling all Crude day Traders.*



Naked shorts said:


> I've got plenty of videos and documented moments where oil clearly leads everything else... during peak market hours that is. During 3am EST chop it generally follows ES, but i haven't really looked at it then.
> 
> I have seen plenty of times when oil is just sitting near a breakout point, everything else is on the verge of breaking out, oil starts to pull back, then ES Gold bonds USD follow.. then oil smashes through the support/resistance and everything else starts to follow and also breaks out. Doesnt always happen but enough for me to notice it.




Awesome, good for you.

As I said, I am yet to see it, more the other way around so far. But, thats just me


----------



## Naked shorts

*Re: Calling all Crude day Traders.*



ThingyMajiggy said:


> Awesome, good for you.
> 
> As I said, I am yet to see it, more the other way around so far. But, thats just me




tell me what you see at 11pm tonight

btw, what is FESTU?


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

*Re: Calling all Crude day Traders.*



Naked shorts said:


> tell me what you see at 11pm tonight
> 
> btw, what is FESTU?




lol, I'm not disagreeing with you, I just haven't seen it yet, you are probably far more elite and more experienced than I am, so I wouldn't know.  

Haha, just a joke between nomore4s and myself, I could tell you, but I might have to kill you after


----------



## Trembling Hand

You Gents enjoying these 500 lots sweeps down??


----------



## Naked shorts

Trembling Hand said:


> You Gents enjoying these 500 lots sweeps down??




just starting.. but looking at it now makes u wonder what they are trying to acheive. Whenever ive seen it on a smaller timescale, price normally ends up heading the same way as the sweeps.. lets see if it holds on a larger timescale.


----------



## >Apocalypto<

Trembling Hand said:


> You Gents enjoying these 500 lots sweeps down??




fraaaaaak, saw em was humbled. one very interesting market.

have to say TH, i really see now why you talked up futs. one thing that's great to have *is volume!*

one question (anyone), in ninja Trader is it possible to have the vol update live as the bar moves and not have it update to its total on the close of the bar?

cheers


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

>Apocalypto< said:


> fraaaaaak, saw em was humbled. one very interesting market.
> 
> have to say TH, i really see now why you talked up futs. one thing that's great to have *is volume!*
> 
> one question (anyone), in ninja Trader is it possible to have the vol update live as the bar moves and not have it update to its total on the close of the bar?
> 
> cheers




Goto indicator settings and change "Calculate on bar close" to False on your volume settings. 

Like so...


----------



## >Apocalypto<

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Goto indicator settings and change "Calculate on bar close" to False on your volume settings.
> 
> Like so...




thank you very much Sam. I see you have the fancy bar timer! (LOOK OUT *: )*) I just run the bar timer!

does it have nay different features?


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

>Apocalypto< said:


> thank you very much Sam. I see you have the fancy bar timer! (LOOK OUT *: )*) I just run the bar timer!
> 
> does it have nay different features?




Haha, ohh yes, its the secret to success that one right there  

Nah its just a visual timer instead of the numbers counting down, got sections for how many minutes and the colour disappears as the bar nears completion, its not too bad, sometimes it can get in the way though.


----------



## Trembling Hand

ThingyMajiggy said:


> sometimes it can get in the way though.




You can position it in different corners and also make it thinner. I have it set to 4 rather than the default 10 height.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

Trembling Hand said:


> You can position it in different corners and also make it thinner. I have it set to 4 rather than the default 10 height.




Ahh cool, you can too, I hadn't really looked at the settings much, didn't think there would be much you could adjust, thanks for that


----------



## >Apocalypto<

short terms, what MA do you prefer, I have always used EMA under 10 min but I tend to like WMA more. I have read up on em but can't see any real advantages listed in what i have written.

opinions????


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

>Apocalypto< said:


> short terms, what MA do you prefer, I have always used EMA under 10 min but I tend to like WMA more. I have read up on em but can't see any real advantages listed in what i have written.
> 
> opinions????




Never used an MA for anything so I can't really say. Why do you use them?


----------



## >Apocalypto<

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Never used an MA for anything so I can't really say. Why do you use them?




i use them cuz there part of a method I have been using on and off for about 2 years. the MAs give you direction, you trade retracements off them in the cross direction.

this is the method have a look if you want let me know what you think. http://www.trading-naked.com/FloorTraderMethod.htm 

I guess by your comment you trade off support and resistance right? still on sim, but another .20 cents up to this point in the evening.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

>Apocalypto< said:


> i use them cuz there part of a method I have been using on and off for about 2 years. the MAs give you direction, you trade retracements off them in the cross direction.
> 
> this is the method have a look if you want let me know what you think. http://www.trading-naked.com/FloorTraderMethod.htm
> 
> I guess by your comment you trade off support and resistance right? still on sim, but another .20 cents up to this point in the evening.




Ahh I see, very interesting  Will have a read of that. 

Yeah I kind of do, have been experimenting with Frank Ds channel system on short term(1m). Also lately I have been looking at the markets overall, gold, oil, currencies, ES etc to see how they react with each other and taking trades off that, charts have been just plain naked. 

But....I suck at both haha  

Well done on the 20c


----------



## Naked shorts

>Apocalypto< said:


> short terms, what MA do you prefer, I have always used EMA under 10 min but I tend to like WMA more. I have read up on em but can't see any real advantages listed in what i have written.
> 
> opinions????




In my general market overview, I just a 100MA on 30min and 1min. I do this so i can get a quick idea of what the market has done without having to scroll back and it allows me to see what is currently correlated to what.


----------



## >Apocalypto<

flying on the 2min!


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

>Apocalypto< said:


> flying on the 2min!




Fark! So glad I'm short right now lol


----------



## >Apocalypto<

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Fark! So glad I'm short right now lol




very nice! i caught a short off the decline.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

>Apocalypto< said:


> very nice! i caught a short off the decline.




Yeah it was Crude Inventories released tonight @ midnight(Adelaide time), I was short because there was some resistance there on the higher timeframes, went short 2 contracts @ 84.40 I think it was(have closed down TWS), exited @ around a $1 less. Pity I'm only on Sim, if it was my live account, it would have spiked the other way lol


----------



## >Apocalypto<

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Yeah it was Crude Inventories released tonight @ midnight(Adelaide time), I was short because there was some resistance there on the higher timeframes, went short 2 contracts @ 84.40 I think it was(have closed down TWS), exited @ around a $1 less. Pity I'm only on Sim, if it was my live account, it would have spiked the other way lol




I forgot it was WED night, that's inventories night! 

lol, I know what you mean. don't worry i am also on sim. getting closer to go live. $2700 per lot to trade intraday is very good. lower margin then a trade on 100K GBP/USD!


----------



## Naked shorts

LOL u held through oil inventories! hahah, didnt u notice dom liquidity drying up just before hand?


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

Naked shorts said:


> LOL u held through oil inventories! hahah, didnt u notice dom liquidity drying up just before hand?




Ahhh the DOM, now lets see, everyone except maybe one guy I have asked about that says its "useless" and there is no point staring at the DOM, so....no I didn't see it dry up just before hand. I had it up but wasn't taking particular notice to it. 

DOM, No DOM, someone just cut the BS and tell me if its worth looking at or not. 

I went short because there was resistance above so I thought it would come off anyway, Inventories just happened to help it there alot faster than I thought haha


----------



## Frank D

ThingyMajiggy said:


> DOM, No DOM, someone just cut the BS and tell me if its worth looking at or not.
> 
> *I went short because there was resistance *




I couldn’t think of anything worse than staring at the screen all day or
 night waiting for volume or the DOM to make decisions.

You should already know what you’ll be doing before the day and where
 you want to be trading.

If you are not sure of a particular set-up on a day, then the DOM might 
give you an edge. But it should be an after thought.

What you did was correct:- trade support & resistance

If you are relying on Crude to meet your daily living expenses (primary income) then by all means use it.

If you are trading crude for extra cash and a few trades per week then 
focus on support & resistance.

*Note:- *I might be bias because I don’t look at Volume.


----------



## Naked shorts

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Ahhh the DOM, now lets see, everyone except maybe one guy I have asked about that says its "useless" and there is no point staring at the DOM, so....no I didn't see it dry up just before hand. I had it up but wasn't taking particular notice to it.
> 
> DOM, No DOM, someone just cut the BS and tell me if its worth looking at or not.
> 
> I went short because there was resistance above so I thought it would come off anyway, Inventories just happened to help it there alot faster than I thought haha




all the professionals with the money look at it. even the funds that that do super long term stuff do because their execution traders play games to get best execution.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

Frank D said:


> I couldn’t think of anything worse than staring at the screen all day or
> night waiting for volume or the DOM to make decisions.
> 
> You should already know what you’ll be doing before the day and where
> you want to be trading.
> 
> If you are not sure of a particular set-up on a day, then the DOM might
> give you an edge. But it should be an after thought.
> 
> What you did was correct:- trade support & resistance
> 
> If you are relying on Crude to meet your daily living expenses (primary income) then by all means use it.
> 
> If you are trading crude for extra cash and a few trades per week then
> focus on support & resistance.
> 
> *Note:- *I might be bias because I don’t look at Volume.




Yeah, thanks Frank. That is what I did, I saw where the market could turn and went short there, I was short a little while before the Inventories came out. No matter which way I trade, someone, somewhere thinks its stupid so I dunno 



Naked shorts said:


> all the professionals with the money look at it. even the funds that that do super long term stuff do because their execution traders play games to get best execution.




It really matters that much, even though the position is super long term??


----------



## MRC & Co

ThingyMajiggy said:


> No matter which way I trade, someone, somewhere thinks its stupid so I dunno




This comment, after your comment about someone "someone just cut the BS and tell me if its worth looking at or not.".

Have you ever worked before Sam?  Have you ever heard of a thing called autonomy or how about initiative?

Fark me, your rants are becoming very annoying.  

Your quoted comment above is because everything works and everything doesn't.  

Work out what you think works, then practice that.  If the results aren't there, work out why......and on goes the loop.  This is trading, it's continuous evolution.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

MRC & Co said:


> This comment, after your comment about someone "someone just cut the BS and tell me if its worth looking at or not.".
> 
> Have you ever worked before Sam?  Have you ever heard of a thing called autonomy or how about initiative?
> 
> Fark me, your rants are becoming very annoying.
> 
> Your quoted comment above is because everything works and everything doesn't.
> 
> Work out what you think works, then practice that.  If the results aren't there, work out why......and on goes the loop.  This is trading, it's continuous evolution.




Right, I had a large post about this sort of **** around here but its not worth it. I know what the response will be. 

Enough from me around here then. Thanks to those that have helped me. Good luck in trading everyone


----------



## MRC & Co

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Right, I had a large post about this sort of **** around here but its not worth it. I know what the response will be.
> 
> Enough from me around here then. Thanks to those that have helped me. Good luck in trading everyone




No problems.

Unfortunately, your not going to be spoon fed the holy grail anywhere in the world, inclusive of the virtual world, because there is no such thing.

I've given you ideas plenty of professional traders use, yet, it obviously isn't enough.  You become frustrated and just want more and more and more, to the point that nobody can help you but yourself.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

MRC & Co said:


> No problems.
> 
> Unfortunately, your not going to be spoon fed the holy grail anywhere in the world, inclusive of the virtual world, because there is no such thing.
> 
> I've given you ideas plenty of professional traders use, yet, it obviously isn't enough.  You become frustrated and just want more and more and more, to the point that nobody can help you but yourself.




MRC,

I know that. 

I'm using your ideas. I have been ever since you shared them with me. 

My "rant" was merely to do with the DOM, of which you mentioned nothing in your ideas, its something that seems to be rarely talked about, some use it solely by itself, others think its a waste of time and I thought you of all people would know that no matter what way you trade, someone is going to think its not right, especially around here, everyones dick is bigger than the next guy's. 

I would hardly call that wanting to be "spoon fed". 

But anyway, I have appreciated the help I have gotten from yourself and others, I know there is more work to be done, as there always is. Heads down. I'll be sure to keep my farking annoying ranting voice down from now on.


----------



## >Apocalypto<

ThingyMajiggy said:


> MRC,
> 
> I know that.
> 
> I'm using your ideas. I have been ever since you shared them with me.
> 
> My "rant" was merely to do with the DOM, of which you mentioned nothing in your ideas, its something that seems to be rarely talked about, some use it solely by itself, others think its a waste of time and I thought you of all people would know that no matter what way you trade, someone is going to think its not right, especially around here, everyones dick is bigger than the next guy's.
> 
> I would hardly call that wanting to be "spoon fed".
> 
> But anyway, I have appreciated the help I have gotten from yourself and others, I know there is more work to be done, as there always is. Heads down. I'll be sure to keep my farking annoying ranting voice down from now on.




SC,

I enjoy having you around the Crude thread and enjoy your posts so stick around.

cheers


----------



## MRC & Co

Sam,

DOM works for those who can use it.  It doesn't for those who don't know how.

I traded oil nearly daily and mostly many times a day for over a year and consistently made money using nearly just the DOM, most probably couldn't use the same strategy. 

You said this:  "No matter which way I trade, someone, somewhere thinks its stupid so I dunno" with eyes rolling.  I completely understand someone is going to critisize the way you trade, you need to learn that also and just keep doing what your doing.  I don't read forums a lot or most blogs a lot these days except from those I really trust (i.e. agree with their logic) and they are few and far between, as I don't want to be swayed from my own style and opinion which works for me.  

Just practice what seems logical to you, and keep improving upon that.  Not really that hard, just have to realise the path is slow, curvy and frustrating.  You are going to have great periods, followed by sh*t periods.  Work out why, keep trying to improve and adapt.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

>Apocalypto< said:


> SC,
> 
> I enjoy having you around the Crude thread and enjoy your posts so stick around.
> 
> cheers




Thanks Apoc 



MRC & Co said:


> Sam,
> 
> DOM works for those who can use it.  It doesn't for those who don't know how.
> 
> I traded oil nearly daily and mostly many times a day for over a year and consistently made money using nearly just the DOM, most probably couldn't use the same strategy.
> 
> You said this:  "No matter which way I trade, someone, somewhere thinks its stupid so I dunno" with eyes rolling.  I completely understand someone is going to critisize the way you trade, you need to learn that also and just keep doing what your doing.  I don't read forums a lot or most blogs a lot these days except from those I really trust (i.e. agree with their logic) and they are few and far between, as I don't want to be swayed from my own style and opinion which works for me.
> 
> Just practice what seems logical to you, and keep improving upon that.  Not really that hard, just have to realise the path is slow, curvy and frustrating.  You are going to have great periods, followed by sh*t periods.  Work out why, keep trying to improve and adapt.





Yeah thanks MRC, I agree with most of it. 

Everything pretty weak atm, ES, Oil, Gold, currencies all off pretty hard from about 6pm, only idea I have that caused it was British retail sales? Didn't think it would have that much of an impact on it though, unless theres something I have missed somewhere. Probably something to do with Greece again?  

Anyway, before that I was actually thinking it was going to be positive tonight, I had a long on Crude from 83.58, was going to hold until later tonight but I ended up getting out @ 83.95, I have attached the chart, long @ yellow, out @ red. Was actually a bit peeved at first because I was thinking I got out too soon, bit of luck again!

Not sure what it will do for the rest of the night, might go down to a smaller time frame and try some scalping type trades, it might hold @ 82.45ish or so, but nothing real clear, that I can see yet anyway. Leaning towards weakness now after this drop.


----------



## professor_frink

Sam,
2 main stories tonight were fitch saying Japan's credit worthiness might be at risk due to govt debt levels and then the Greek budget defict came in at a shade over 13% of GDP


----------



## Naked shorts

ThingyMajiggy said:


> everyones dick is bigger than the next guy's.



Not true, my dick is definitely the biggest.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

professor_frink said:


> Sam,
> 2 main stories tonight were fitch saying Japan's credit worthiness might be at risk due to govt debt levels and then the Greek budget defict came in at a shade over 13% of GDP




Thanks prof, just reading up about it now


----------



## MRC & Co

professor_frink said:


> Sam,
> 2 main stories tonight were fitch saying Japan's credit worthiness might be at risk due to govt debt levels and then the Greek budget defict came in at a shade over 13% of GDP




I would say:

5y Greek CDS to a new all-time wide of 635 – Main reasons: 1) strikes in Greece 2) conservative German MPs refuse to fast-track Greek aid.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

ThingyMajiggy said:


> it might hold @ 82.45ish or so.




Did end up holding @ 82.45. 

Was long, then added to it as it went in my favour. As it turns out, I could have held longer, but I was out @ 83.20 to be erm..."safe" I guess, didn't want to set my TP at the moon, knowing Oil it could swing back down to new lows again by morning. Some big volumes last night too.

The scalping I had a go at was miserable, lots of little losses, I never seem to trade as well short term compared to long term, even though I probably like short term better. 

Now the hard part, to do this more than I don't do this, and making sure the do's are bigger than the don'ts


----------



## professor_frink

MRC & Co said:


> I would say:
> 
> 5y Greek CDS to a new all-time wide of 635 – Main reasons: 1) strikes in Greece 2) conservative German MPs refuse to fast-track Greek aid.




Is there anywhere that this can be followed live MRC? I see news of it rising or falling during the day being reported, but wouldn't have a clue if there is any way to follow it live


----------



## MRC & Co

professor_frink said:


> Is there anywhere that this can be followed live MRC? I see news of it rising or falling during the day being reported, but wouldn't have a clue if there is any way to follow it live




Sorry professor, I don't watch it live, but will find out nxt wk for you off those who would know, finished for the wkend now!


----------



## professor_frink

MRC & Co said:


> Sorry professor, I don't watch it live, but will find out nxt wk for you off those who would know, finished for the wkend now!




Good man!

Enjoy your weekend mate.


----------



## Naked shorts

Prof, the definitive resource is here
http://www.cmavision.com/

otherwise open an account with an IBank that you can trade CDS's with


----------



## professor_frink

Naked shorts said:


> Prof, the definitive resource is here
> http://www.cmavision.com/
> 
> otherwise open an account with an IBank that you can trade CDS's with




LOL just found that one myself about 5 minutes ago, should have looked a little harder before posting in here

Have you used them NS?


----------



## Naked shorts

professor_frink said:


> LOL just found that one myself about 5 minutes ago, should have looked a little harder before posting in here
> 
> Have you used them NS?




nope, im just signed up to their daily newsletter. i hear live updates from the squawk


----------



## >Apocalypto<

well after another week of watching this. I took two live trades resulted in 147$US, nothing great for a week but it's a start. Still spent most the week on the sim account trying to get to know CL more before I go all in.

what i can say is this is one of the few markets were  a very minor time frame like 2min actually works. I have had to adapt my method a touch but these are positive changes that are more in relation to how CL moves and not tinkering with settings. example, not blindly following the methods ent patterns, waiting for a signal to break current range top or low. 

NakedS you were right I still need  more time to get to know this market more. still slowly moving along. 

blue circle is a trade I took yesterday live orange examples.

so where I get a signal that is also a break of resistance or support is really the signals I am after. 

still on sim next week but looking to increase live trading.


----------



## >Apocalypto<

plenty more on the table tonight.

orange are main set ups. purple's the ones I took.

starting to forget about FX with what i am seeing in CL.

Good trading.


----------



## Kryzz

>Apocalypto< said:


> plenty more on the table tonight.
> 
> orange are main set ups. purple's the ones I took.
> 
> starting to forget about FX with what i am seeing in CL.
> 
> Good trading.




Don't see why everyone favors crude over FX, runs in crude don't seem to be as sustained, only based on what the charts i've seen people post. (euro 1m attached)


----------



## MRC & Co

One thing with crude, is it's a lot harder to pick turning points, because it moves hard when it moves and you get eaten alive trying to fade capitulations which work well on other markets like equity indices for example.

I also found crude has HUGE squeezes sometimes, so it's hard to ride trends intraday as any form of trailing stop will often get wiped out, however the moves are so big and explosive, you only need to catch portions of the trend which is the safest for this market I believe but requires more active intraday trading than most partake in.  Though, when it does go really hard, it will never come back.  You get nights like that on unexpected inventories if the previous trend on the daily matches that with the unexpected inventory release.  I.e. if it's been in an uptrend and the drawdown is greater, the thing can really shoot and hitting tops can be payday.

As for EUR/USD, worst intraday market on earth for me!  It's the only market I'm down net ticks on (let alone brokerage) after a year + of trying.  Completely given up on intraday FOREX, equity indices and commodities offer far better trading I think for those who like doing so intraday........just my opinion.


----------



## >Apocalypto<

Kryzz said:


> Don't see why everyone favors crude over FX, runs in crude don't seem to be as sustained, only based on what the charts i've seen people post. (euro 1m attached)




everyone needs to find a market that suits them and their application of trading rules. I find CL to be best that agrees with me ATM.

I still keep an eye on FX on 15m,in but choose at this point to trade CL and futures (SPI) on lower time frames. 

I don't think one market is better then another, more what market suits you and can you preform best in. 

Good trading


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

Tonights effort. 

8 trades, 6 winners 2 losers. About +30c after brokerage. 1 contract at a time.

Looking back on where I made the trades kinda surprised me, all in the chop basically, which is a nice surprise actually, knowing that there is still some cents to be grabbed in the chop. The in between bits I wasn't at the computer/wasn't watching the markets or setting up NT better, otherwise there probably would/should have been more trend riding going on. 

Relatively slow night so far tonight for Oil/Gold.

BTW, loving NT7s charting, multiple intstruments/timeframes on the same chart plus can overlay say a 1m and 5m or whatever you wish(5m in box mode with 1m on top of it). Saves having 957 windows open.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

MRC & Co said:


> Sam,
> 
> DOM works for those who can use it.  It doesn't for those who don't know how.
> 
> I traded oil nearly daily and mostly many times a day for over a year and consistently made money using nearly just the DOM, most probably couldn't use the same strategy.




Hey MRC,

Please forgive my farkin annoying questions again, but I was wondering, are you still trading like this? Why did you stop? (if you did).

That is all


----------



## >Apocalypto<

all hail king CL, another massive night!

this on top of last nights fiesta! 

on to another topic, Ninja 7 beta great stuff. has anyone else updated IB? what's with the new auto re-centering that goes on in book trader. I have not noticed any affect on execution but I have not traded while it's counting down.

has anyone more info on this?

cheers


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

>Apocalypto< said:


> all hail king CL, another massive night!
> 
> this on top of last nights fiesta!
> 
> on to another topic, Ninja 7 beta great stuff. has anyone else updated IB? what's with the new auto re-centering that goes on in book trader. I have not noticed any affect on execution but I have not traded while it's counting down.
> 
> has anyone more info on this?
> 
> cheers




What version of IB are you running? The NT crew say you must use 900.6, most compatible with NT7 apparently. My BookTrader is still the same here, I'm using 900.6 as I had trouble with the latest version of IB and the NT team said go back to 900.6. 

Also loving NT7, got some nice features.


----------



## >Apocalypto<

ThingyMajiggy said:


> What version of IB are you running? The NT crew say you must use 900.6, most compatible with NT7 apparently. My BookTrader is still the same here, I'm using 900.6 as I had trouble with the latest version of IB and the NT team said go back to 900.6.
> 
> Also loving NT7, got some nice features.




I updated to the latest version. I still interchange to 6.5 Ninja. I have sent in a ticket to IB about book trader.

nice trades on other session Sam, hope you roped some points tonight.

thanks for the reply


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

>Apocalypto< said:


> I updated to the latest version. I still interchange to 6.5 Ninja. I have sent in a ticket to IB about book trader.
> 
> nice trades on other session Sam, hope you roped some points tonight.
> 
> thanks for the reply




Ahh ok, yeah I upgraded a while back to the latest version, but it caused some problems in NT7 with crashing etc. So I had to go back to 900.6. Must say, the NinjaTrader support is pretty awesome, super helpful and fast to respond either by email or on the forum. 

Thanks re: the trades. Only 1 trade 1 winner tonight so far, and it was a short believe it or not lol.


----------



## MRC & Co

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Hey MRC,
> 
> Please forgive my farkin annoying questions again, but I was wondering, are you still trading like this? Why did you stop? (if you did).
> 
> That is all




Don't trade like this as of a couple months ago.

Moved into a diff area in the industry which involves more global macro and longer time-frame trading (told you in a PM a while back).


----------



## >Apocalypto<

Missed this one.

Another signal that coincides with a break of a high with very strong support from volume.

good trading,

*Come on Saints*, big one tonight playing the Dogs!


----------



## >Apocalypto<

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Ahh ok, yeah I upgraded a while back to the latest version, but it caused some problems in NT7 with crashing etc. So I had to go back to 900.6. Must say, the NinjaTrader support is pretty awesome, super helpful and fast to respond either by email or on the forum.
> 
> Thanks re: the trades. Only 1 trade 1 winner tonight so far, and it was a short believe it or not lol.




well done on your short Sam.

I tried to go back over a year last night on SPI data and IB had a hissy fit. So I have to wait to open new charts in Ninja 7 using 6.5 ATM. Today i updated to beta 7 V15 

Yeh the Ninja forum is excellent.. not hard to to find an answer there. I have to do more homework on using it's features, i currently just use it for charts, never look into it to much depth. 

good trading to you


----------



## Naked shorts

i haven't moved to nt7 yet... but when I do, will I have to spend hours setting  up my trading windows? or will it automatically bring my workspaces across? reckon I could import the workspaces somehow?


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

>Apocalypto< said:


> well done on your short Sam.
> 
> I tried to go back over a year last night on SPI data and IB had a hissy fit. So I have to wait to open new charts in Ninja 7 using 6.5 ATM. Today i updated to beta 7 V15
> 
> Yeh the Ninja forum is excellent.. not hard to to find an answer there. I have to do more homework on using it's features, i currently just use it for charts, never look into it to much depth.
> 
> good trading to you




Thanks re: the short  

You tried going back over a year on IB data?? I'm pretty sure you can only go back 180 days with IB? With SPI you're not going to get a full year of data anyway, just the month its currently in? 



Naked shorts said:


> i haven't moved to nt7 yet... but when I do, will I have to spend hours setting  up my trading windows? or will it automatically bring my workspaces across? reckon I could import the workspaces somehow?




No, when you first install 7 it asks you if you want to import everything across from 6.5, workspaces, templates etc. I would say you might need to adjust some settings in the new "Session Manager" because you will probably have data missing on the charts with the time zone differences. But your actual workspace layout _should _be the same if you choose to import it.

Oh, and if you have any super duper secretive 100% correct forecast the future custom indicators you're using in 6.5, they probably won't work in 7, custom indicators usually need updating to be compatible with 7.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

Had a go at 2+ contracts on Friday night, was a bit messy but still a reasonable night, back to 1 contract tonight. I _think_ I'm starting to get more consistent, ever so slowly  Still need to control my losses better and cut out the stupid brain fades, like taking trades when I shouldn't based on nothing. 

Friday around +75c after brokerage - 6 winners, 7 losers
Tonight around +41c after brokerage - 3 winners, 1 loser


----------



## >Apocalypto<

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Had a go at 2+ contracts on Friday night, was a bit messy but still a reasonable night, back to 1 contract tonight. I _think_ I'm starting to get more consistent, ever so slowly  Still need to control my losses better and cut out the stupid brain fades, like taking trades when I shouldn't based on nothing.
> 
> Friday around +75c after brokerage - 6 winners, 7 losers
> Tonight around +41c after brokerage - 3 winners, 1 loser




great stuff Sam, well done. 

I got on 14 cents last night. from the looks of above your hammering it. I still miss a heap on occasion I have stage fright! I spose that shows I still need more screen time to get used to CL

Yeh I am still stuck in cash land, I won’t be trying to pull more than 100 days in spi data again anytime soon!


----------



## nomore4s

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Had a go at 2+ contracts on Friday night, was a bit messy but still a reasonable night, back to 1 contract tonight. I _think_ I'm starting to get more consistent, ever so slowly  Still need to control my losses better and cut out the stupid brain fades, like taking trades when I shouldn't based on nothing.
> 
> Friday around +75c after brokerage - 6 winners, 7 losers
> Tonight around +41c after brokerage - 3 winners, 1 loser






>Apocalypto< said:


> great stuff Sam, well done.
> 
> I got on 14 cents last night. from the looks of above your hammering it. I still miss a heap on occasion I have stage fright! I spose that shows I still need more screen time to get used to CL
> 
> Yeh I am still stuck in cash land, I won’t be trying to pull more than 100 days in spi data again anytime soon!




Good to see you guys going so well with CL.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

>Apocalypto< said:


> great stuff Sam, well done.
> 
> I got on 14 cents last night. from the looks of above your hammering it. I still miss a heap on occasion I have stage fright! I spose that shows I still need more screen time to get used to CL
> 
> Yeh I am still stuck in cash land, I won’t be trying to pull more than 100 days in spi data again anytime soon!




Thanks 

Yeah thats the thing with CL, there is so much opportunity, 9 times out of 10 I could reverse and get a move back the other way as well, or I'll tend to stop trading because I don't want to give anything back, even though there are still great trades to be made, like last night I could have gotten probably another 40 cents if I had responded fast enough, but didn't want to give any of it back too soon 



nomore4s said:


> Good to see you guys going so well with CL.




:bowdown: Hail, the CL king! :bowdown:

Haha cheers 4s


----------



## nomore4s

ThingyMajiggy said:


> :bowdown: Hail, the CL king! :bowdown:
> 
> Haha cheers 4s




lol.

Last few nights have been a bit of a struggle for me.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

nomore4s said:


> lol.
> 
> Last few nights have been a bit of a struggle for me.




Ahhh do not fear, you will have recovered and probably be up 35% by nightfall


----------



## >Apocalypto<

> Thanks
> 
> Yeah thats the thing with CL, there is so much opportunity, 9 times out of 10 I could reverse and get a move back the other way as well, or I'll tend to stop trading because I don't want to give anything back, even though there are still great trades to be made, like last night I could have gotten probably another 40 cents if I had responded fast enough, but didn't want to give any of it back too soon




after a few trades I run out of balls, start to think, this can't be this good! but 9 times out 10 they're.

each day I learn more so happy with it all. it a fantastic market.

keep charging Sam.


----------



## >Apocalypto<

nomore4s said:


> lol.
> 
> Last few nights have been a bit of a struggle for me.




Don't worry Nomore, like sam said sue ypou will be firing in no time.



> Good to see you guys going so well with CL.




Nothing like Sam & yourself Nomore!, trying to get a little further each day. I have basicly stopped looking at FX as well, check out two pairs once a day to two days.

what i have seen and am seeing no need as it takes up time.

I always had a doubt about sub 5min trading but that's slowy going away since I start on CL. But having you two here also trading sub 5min helps a lot.

attched was a small asian session short, I didn't take it. nice break of the intraday range to support the signal.

Cheers & good trading


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

What a crazy night on Crude! I was spewing, had to go out last night so didn't get any of it. 

It took 4 days to climb from 82 to 87 then gives it all back in one night haha  

Anyone get some of it??


----------



## nomore4s

ThingyMajiggy said:


> What a crazy night on Crude! I was spewing, had to go out last night so didn't get any of it.
> 
> It too 4 days to climb from 82 to 87 then gives it all back in one night haha
> 
> Anyone get some of it??




I managed to get a few cents out of it, should have been more if I wasn't such a dedicated member of the F.E.S.T.U club but I can't really complain.


----------



## -Bevo-

ThingyMajiggy said:


> What a crazy night on Crude! I was spewing, had to go out last night so didn't get any of it.
> 
> It took 4 days to climb from 82 to 87 then gives it all back in one night haha
> 
> Anyone get some of it??




Been trading this contract alot recently been alot of fun, had to work night shift last night got home 6 in the morning had a quick look and well bugger should have called in sick


----------



## >Apocalypto<

has been a quality week on CL last two days in perticular have been incredible. while I didn't take most that on offer, I am getting sharper. 

I have read in other areas lot of traders just love CL and now I am seeing why!

hope you all making plently of cents boys.


----------



## >Apocalypto<

SELL SELL SELL SELL

wow, talk about a flood

OMG still going! 79.43


----------



## Whiskers

>Apocalypto< said:


> SELL SELL SELL SELL
> 
> wow, talk about a flood
> 
> OMG still going! 79.43




Lovely   

I don't trade oil, but I've been anticipating a substantial weakening for some time. I also don't hold any oil stocks.


----------



## >Apocalypto<

Whiskers said:


> Lovely
> 
> I don't trade oil, but I've been anticipating a substantial weakening for some time. I also don't hold any oil stocks.




i took 10cents off the initial drop, was in shock as it just collapsed passed my buy limit and never looked back.

see what the night brings


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

>Apocalypto< said:


> i took 10cents off the initial drop, was in shock as it just collapsed passed my buy limit and never looked back.
> 
> see what the night brings




Went long @ 78.98 just before, thought it was going to come off again so I cut it short for a 5c winner, Woooo! 

...now its rubbing it in.  

Leave the emotion outside Sam. Better than -5c I suppose, onto the next one!


----------



## -Bevo-

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Went long @ 78.98 just before, thought it was going to come off again so I cut it short for a 5c winner, Woooo!
> 
> ...now its rubbing it in.
> 
> Leave the emotion outside Sam. Better than -5c I suppose, onto the next one!




If it makes you feel any better.


----------



## Wysiwyg

-Bevo- said:


> If it makes you feel any better.



Is that a fat finger trade? Unintentional.


----------



## -Bevo-

Wysiwyg said:


> Is that a fat finger trade? Unintentional.




Sure was, playing around with booktrader at the time wasnt supposed to get filled.


----------



## >Apocalypto<

well last night/morning was a real  eye opener.....  don't think i need to many words to describe it, sure you all know what i am thinking!


----------



## >Apocalypto<

3 trades tonight 1 loss and 2 winners. 1st a brain fade!

a little but better then nothing.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

Well done Apoc  

Down it goes!


----------



## >Apocalypto<

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Well done Apoc
> 
> Down it goes!




Sam i am a little embarrassed to put up results for such minor wins, with what happening at the moment! 

how have been going for you Sam?


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

>Apocalypto< said:


> Sam i am a little embarrassed to put up results for such minor wins, with what happening at the moment!
> 
> how have been going for you Sam?




Embarrassed?! Don't be embarrased, nothing to be embarrassed about. 

I haven't traded it the last few nights, not really trading it tonight either, just watching, I should be in bed(Got a busy day tomorrow) but I'm like a moth to the light, its just soooo beauutiful


----------



## >Apocalypto<

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Embarrassed?! Don't be embarrased, nothing to be embarrassed about.
> 
> I haven't traded it the last few nights, not really trading it tonight either, just watching, I should be in bed(Got a busy day tomorrow) but I'm like a moth to the light, its just soooo beauutiful




thanks mate.

i was in awe of the last two days as well. what a massive two days.

here's a 10 min chart of it................


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

>Apocalypto< said:


> thanks mate.
> 
> i was in awe of the last two days as well. what a massive two days.
> 
> here's a 10 min chart of it................




Yeah its been crazy hey, last 4 days its given back $10, last 3 months of gains in 4 days!  +$4 ranges last couple days too, average is about $1.50. 

Makes for some lively trading thats for sure!  

I said not really trading it tonight, but I can't help myself, around +73c(after comms) in the last hour(1 contract), still sim trading though, but trying to gain some consistency. Just using the NT sim account tonight, other comp is on my IB paper account and cbf changing it over lol.


----------



## Wysiwyg

My . Traded about 20 Crude Oil contracts on 1 and 5 minute bars with CFD and got stopped out on most with the price ranging erratically. Ripping one way then ripping the other. Too much for this little black duck so a bad experience due to my lack of instrument research and left this one for the big players.


----------



## >Apocalypto<

Wysiwyg said:


> My . Traded about 20 Crude Oil contracts on 1 and 5 minute bars with CFD and got stopped out on most with the price ranging erratically. Ripping one way then ripping the other. Too much for this little black duck so a bad experience due to my lack of instrument research and left this one for the big players.




I also traded CFDs over crude. massive spread and jumped in spikes alot.

trading the futs is much better i trade on a 2 time frame, I don't find it to fast or making random spikes. the feeds the CFD providers use are rubbish, best to straight to the exchange!


----------



## nomore4s

Wysiwyg said:


> My . Traded about 20 Crude Oil contracts on 1 and 5 minute bars with CFD and got stopped out on most with the price ranging erratically. Ripping one way then ripping the other. Too much for this little black duck so a bad experience due to my lack of instrument research and left this one for the big players.




My

What did you expect? A trader with limited ability trading an instrument like Crude on short time-frames and using CFD's to boot is bound to end in tears.


----------



## baby_swallow

"Daytrading using CFDs - no matter what market, is a surefire way to loose money." 
I'm sure many veteran traders here would agree with me on this statement.


----------



## nomore4s

baby_swallow said:


> "Daytrading using CFDs - no matter what market, is a surefire way to loose money."
> I'm sure many veteran traders here would agree with me on this statement.




Not really, if you have enough skill you can make it work but you are working against a lot more things trading CFD's.

It is quite a bit more expensive for starters, you also tend to have trouble with orders going through if you start to make too much money.


----------



## >Apocalypto<

silly day today. tried to trade the Asian session, missed any that worked and took two losers. lost 22 cents. learned the hard way only trade after 5:30 when liq picks up!. pre 5:30 doesn't suit my method.

will be back later today.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

Up 36c so far today, went long @ 76.72 and out @ 77.09, so now watch it fly to the moon  

Have you tried a longer time-frame during the Asian session Apoc? Do you get lots of false trades/chop with that method during the Asian period?


----------



## >Apocalypto<

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Have you tried a longer time-frame during the Asian session Apoc??




No, normally I don't trade it. today I was silly.



> Do you get lots of false trades/chop with that method during the Asian period




Not always but the chances are higher from what i have seen.


----------



## Wysiwyg

nomore4s said:


> My
> 
> What did you expect? A trader with limited ability trading an instrument like Crude on short time-frames and using CFD's to boot is bound to end in tears.



Exactly my message for anyone with stars in their eyes.


----------



## >Apocalypto<

Wysiwyg said:


> Exactly my message for anyone with stars in their eyes.




The original feeling I felt in your 1st post was you can’t trade CL on short time frames and make a profit?


----------



## Wysiwyg

>Apocalypto< said:


> The origional I felt in your 1st post was you cant trade CL on short time frames and make a profit?



No I couldn't and that is exactly what the sentence says.
 How is your currency trading going? Are you just having a look at alternative markets or are giving away currency trading altogether?


----------



## >Apocalypto<

Wysiwyg said:


> No I couldn't and that is exactly what the sentence says.
> How is your currency trading going? Are you just having a look at alternative markets or are giving away currency trading altogether?




still trade FX here and there. mosltly EUR/JPY and EUR/USD GBP/JPY on 1 -2 hour time frames. 

I love this short term stuff. on Fx it's very very very very very very very hard with the method I use. To my supprise it goes well on CL. I am also about to start trading XJO opions again on daily charts, then I will be doing away with FX apart from looking at 2 hour EUR/JPY.


----------



## Wysiwyg

>Apocalypto< said:


> still trade FX here and there. mosltly EUR/JPY and EUR/USD GBP/JPY on 1 -2 hour time frames.
> 
> I love this short term stuff. on Fx it's very very very very very very very hard with the method I use. To my supprise it goes well on CL. I am also about to start trading XJO opions again on daily charts, then I will be doing away with FX apart from looking at 2 hour EUR/JPY.




Okay so you weren't all that successful at Forex trading. That is okay to admit so now you are trying other instruments. Let us know how you go.


----------



## >Apocalypto<

Wysiwyg said:


> Okay so you didn't succeed at Forex trading. That is okay to admit so now you are trying other instruments. Let us know how you go.




LOL, I still trade FX you Muppet. But I as a person I prefer faster time frames so I don't have to spend 24 hours of my day thinking about the FX market. CL is 5:30 - 12:00 - 1 am tops. 1 hour FX is all day and night from asain session open. I want to have more of a life. Nothing to do with failing. You have to quit to fail at something.... I have not quit. I still watch EUR/JPY..... and look to trade it. *why don't you try to trade CL on NYMEX mate before you tell us all, it's to hard....*


----------



## Wysiwyg

>Apocalypto< said:


> LOL, I still trade FX you Muppet. I still watch EUR/JPY..... and look to trade it. *why don't you try to trade CL on NYMEX mate before you tell us all, it's to hard....*




But that is what player like you are here for. To show everyone how easy it is.  I did not tell everyone it was too hard. I stated my experience of it and you changed that to your own perception.  If you want to engage in communication then stick to the facts instead of altering what I post to your own perception, you gun simulation trading muppet.


----------



## >Apocalypto<

Wysiwyg said:


> But that is what player like you are here for. To show everyone how easy it is.  I did not tell everyone it was too hard. I stated my experience of it and you changed that to your own perception.  If you want to engage in communication then stick to the facts instead of altering what I post to your own perception, you gun simulation trading muppet.






open an account with IB trade CL and starting telling us about your experiences. 

I am not interested in exchanging dribble with you.


----------



## Kryzz

Just to confirm, smallest move in crude is $0.01 ie 1 cent = 1 tick, tick value =$10USD?

cheers


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

Kryzz said:


> Just to confirm, smallest move in crude is $0.01 ie 1 cent = 1 tick, tick value =$10USD?
> 
> cheers




Yep.


----------



## >Apocalypto<

well  I took off with 13 cents and it just took off! 

cut my losses down by over 50% so happy with that.

plenty of strong buying tonight. If the range hits 20 on Ninja I will be on the side lines also got saints on at 7:30 

the screen shot is of my live account with live trades. (some members who don't trade crude find it very important to know this.)

*Sammy Boy how you going added to your 35 cents?*

good trading guys

Cheers


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

>Apocalypto< said:


> *Sammy Boy how you going added to your 35 cents?*




Well done Apoc  Keep at it. 

Nah haven't added anything yet, just been watching it, I could have 2 or 3 times, but decided not to, not sure what the big deal about posting sim results is, that is what I am doing, I have absolutely no intention of going live before I KNOW I am consistent and KNOW why I am profitable, only makes sense to me. Same as you wouldn't buy a car without test driving it first. I'm quite happy with the fact that I am improving and I am starting to see things that I haven't seen before, going straight into live CL trading would be suicide IMO. 

Has been a pretty strong Asian session, I have a dead patch on my data, I'm not sure if its supposed to be there or not though, from 1:40pm - 2:10pm(SA time). Anyone else got this? It didn't seem to happen live, I refreshed my charts and it appeared, have tried refreshing them again but its still there. Weird.


----------



## >Apocalypto<

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Well done Apoc  Keep at it.




Cheers mate. 



> Nah haven't added anything yet, just been watching it, I could have 2 or 3 times, but decided not to, not sure what the big deal about posting sim results is, that is what I am doing, I have absolutely no intention of going live before I KNOW I am consistent and KNOW why I am profitable, only makes sense to me. Same as you wouldn't buy a car without test driving it first. I'm quite happy with the fact that I am improving and I am starting to see things that I haven't seen before, going straight into live CL trading would be suicide IMO.




Sam, forget about that person coming in and releasing there frustrations. I actually missed the first run while wasting my time replying. 

I really enjoy and appreciate your posts and I don't care whether their sim or live, that is meaningless to me. What i enjoy seeing is your journey to get to a goal. So take it easy and forget about that rubbish that was put up as a cheap dig(at me). Take your time mate you will know when your ready to go live. Please keep posting and be proud of your achievements. At times last year I took sim breaks when I felt I needed a week or so to get my eye back in. I love the fact you post up all you results, you and nomore4s are the reason I have gotten into CL. I am very thankful to you guys for opening my eyes to this fantastic market. 



> Has been a pretty strong Asian session, I have a dead patch on my data, I'm not sure if its supposed to be there or not though, from 1:40pm - 2:10pm(SA time). Anyone else got this? It didn't seem to happen live, I refreshed my charts and it appeared, have tried refreshing them again but its still there. Weird.




It must have only affected sim accs I didn't notice it. the ranges have been massive since last Thursday night, I was a Muppet today ballsed up two trades.

On the last winner I was mucking around with my stop and it canceled out the bracket! I was mentally praying the int did not drop out! 

Good trading mate.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

>Apocalypto< said:


> Sam, forget about that person coming in and releasing there frustrations. I actually missed the first run while wasting my time replying.
> 
> I really enjoy and appreciate your posts and I don't care whether their sim or live, that is meaningless to me. What i enjoy seeing is your journey to get to a goal. So take it easy and forget about that rubbish that was put up as a cheap dig(at me). Take your time mate you will know when your ready to go live. Please keep posting and be proud of your achievements. At times last year I took sim breaks when I felt I needed a week or so to get my eye back in. I love the fact you post up all you results, you and nomore4s are the reason I have gotten into CL. I am very thankful to you guys for opening my eyes to this fantastic market.




Thanks for the kind words  



>Apocalypto< said:


> It must have only affected sim accs I didn't notice it. the ranges have been massive since last Thursday night, I was a Muppet today ballsed up two trades.
> 
> On the last winner I was mucking around with my stop and it canceled out the bracket! I was mentally praying the int did not drop out!
> 
> Good trading mate.




Yeah dunno what it is, it didn't effect me, I wasn't trading it at the time, just noticed it appear when I re-freshed the chart. I'm surprised at how strong the markets have been today.


----------



## nomore4s

Sorry guys been a bit busy lately.

I haven't really been trading crude much due to not being able to trade the late hours atm and the fact I've had a couple of good days on the SPI so I decided to have a few early nights.

But it looks like I will be trading full-time from next month so will be able to spend more time with Crude.

Had a bit of a flutter on crude tonight albeit only 2 trades but off to bed shortly as I have quite a few commitments on the weekend and need my rest:.

Have attached todays results for you guys, but Friday's results make today look like chicken feed - great few days in the market, wish conditions were like this all the time, lol.



ThingyMajiggy said:


> I have a dead patch on my data, I'm not sure if its supposed to be there or not though, from 1:40pm - 2:10pm(SA time). Anyone else got this? It didn't seem to happen live, I refreshed my charts and it appeared, have tried refreshing them again but its still there. Weird.




I also noticed this this arvo, was on Gold & AUD/USD as well.


----------



## ThingyMajiggy

nomore4s said:


> But it looks like I will be trading full-time from next month so will be able to spend more time with Crude.
> 
> Have attached todays results for you guys, but Friday's results make today look like chicken feed - great few days in the market, wish conditions were like this all the time, lol.




lol, well done! I wonder what its going to be like once you go full time  you'll need another widescreen just to see how much profit you have : Nicely done Mr. 4s  btw, whats the SPI?? 

Tonights effort from me, 16 trades, 8 winners, 8 losers. Trading 1 contract. I was just watching it earlier around the open, picked some great trades, didn't actually take them though  starting to see them easier now, then actually made a few trades hoping what I saw around the open might happen again but it didn't, bit mishy mashy, but the winners were bigger than the losers, thats the main thing 

Trade well guys


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## Kryzz

nomore4s said:


> Sorry guys been a bit busy lately.
> 
> I haven't really been trading crude much due to not being able to trade the late hours atm and the fact I've had a couple of good days on the SPI so I decided to have a few early nights.
> 
> But it looks like I will be trading full-time from next month so will be able to spend more time with Crude.
> 
> Had a bit of a flutter on crude tonight albeit only 2 trades but off to bed shortly as I have quite a few commitments on the weekend and need my rest:.
> 
> Have attached todays results for you guys, but Friday's results make today look like chicken feed - great few days in the market, wish conditions were like this all the time, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> I also noticed this this arvo, was on Gold & AUD/USD as well.




Awesome job Nomore! What sort of style of trading is that, scalping/intraday swing trading, if you don't mind me asking?

cheers


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## nomore4s

Kryzz said:


> Awesome job Nomore! What sort of style of trading is that, scalping/intraday swing trading, if you don't mind me asking?
> 
> cheers




It's a bit of a mixture really.

I tend to trade each market slightly differently and then also change tactics depending on what I'm expecting for the day (or period I'm trading) on that instrument.

For instance the last few days (not today) on the SPI have been more buy and hold type days riding the trend but other days I look to trade an intial move from open for 10-20 points.

With crude I tend to scalp more due to the nature & speed of its movements but I do also look to catch larger moves when the opportunities present.

The thing with trading intra-day on futures markets is having an understanding of what the market is offering up each day and then applying a strategy to take as many points/tick/pips/cents out of the market that day. On choppy days I try to scalp, on trending days I try to capture decent portions of the trend and on bad days I just try to reduce the damage I do to my account (which unfortunately is probably the hardest part of trading), the real trick to trading imo is being able to identify what type of day it is and then having the skill to make the most of it.

As good as my results have been in the last few days they could have 4-5 times better but I failed to make the most of it even though I correctly identified what was happening in the markets, this is where the true skill in trading lies imo.


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## nomore4s

Just got a nice couple of trades on Crude, will probably call it a night now.

Nearing strong support on the hourly chart so could be a good place for a bounce back towards $78 - if looking for longer term intra-day trades.

Good luck if trading tonight to the crude crew, lol.

And just to prove yesterdays stats weren't a fluke


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## >Apocalypto<

nomore4s said:


> Just got a nice couple of trades on Crude, will probably call it a night now.
> 
> Nearing strong support on the hourly chart so could be a good place for a bounce back towards $78 - if looking for longer term intra-day trades.
> 
> Good luck if trading tonight to the crude crew, lol.
> 
> And just to prove yesterdays stats weren't a fluke




FANTASTIC Nomore4s! 

great results well done.

I got a hammering tonight. -28 cents. back on sim for 3 days then back on the horse.

hey Nomore you trade a 1min right with no indicators or a system as such I like I use? based on your last post you adapt to the current market infront of you yeh?

Cheers


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## nomore4s

>Apocalypto< said:


> hey Nomore you trade a 1min right with no indicators or a system as such I like I use? based on your last post you adapt to the current market infront of you yeh?




Yes, I trade off a 1min chart with volume & a bastardized version of FrankD's channels (I have a number of different codes for different time-frames for the channels) but to tell the truth I could actually trade off a naked chart with volume only. I tend to only use the channels as a sort of trend indicator and a type of pivot point but it is mainly the price action and speed of the moves (ie when it starts to slow and stall) that I use to enter trades.

I also tend to look over different time-frames to help identify support & resistance which also plays an important role in helping me get an overview of the overall market to help me understand how I should be trading for that session.

I by no means pick the market conditions correctly every session I trade and sometimes I even do stupid things like trade against my plan for that session but by having good risk management I can limit my losses on days like this - although I still occasionally have a really big brain explosion day but I'm slowly working these out of my trading.

It wasn't until I totally disregarded most of the T/A cr@p you read in most of the books that I really started to make inroads into this trading game. Most of that BS is fine for trading stocks on EOD charts if you want to return 10-15% PA but is actually a hinderence to day-trading futures off 1 min charts. The biggest area I can improve now is with the mental side of trading - a very underestimated area of trading, especially day trading imo.


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## nomore4s

Been a bit of a struggle for me today.

Not much time to trade during the day today so missed quite a few opps on the SPI and probably won't have much time to trade it now till next month.

Also struggled on Crude tonight, first couple of trades were losers so pretty much been chasing my tail for the whole night, managed to get back to b/e, so happy.


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## nomore4s

Amazing what 10 min and a really good trade can do for the nights profit.

I took a losing trade (2 entries of 2 contracts) then a really good trade (again 2 entries of 2 contracts), and interestingly the loser was in the same direction and around the same area as the winner but the market stopped me out and then was kind enough to give me another chance to enter, pity the market isn't always so generous to me.


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## >Apocalypto<

great efforts Nomore. reay impressive mate!

I am so impressed I am going to spend some time on sim to see if I can make any cents with no indis.

I picked up 15 cents last night. but I am very very interested in how you and Sam tackle this with no indis.

see what damage I can do to my sim acc!


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## nomore4s

>Apocalypto< said:


> great efforts Nomore. reay impressive mate!
> 
> I am so impressed I am going to spend some time on sim to see if I can make any cents with no indis.
> 
> I picked up 15 cents last night. but I am very very interested in how you and Sam tackle this with no indis.
> 
> see what damage I can do to my sim acc!




I should probably also mention that I have book trader open and keep a close eye on the price action in the ladder.

After enough hours you can see moves coming to an end or basing or topping patterns forming, it is very hard to explain how I trade and tbh I probably couldn't teach it to anyone. Decisions have to be made in a split second trading on 1min charts and I've lost count of the times I've missed great trades because I hesitated or I've been caught in losing trades because I entered prematurely not wanting to miss the move, the trick is not to let those set backs affect your trading for the rest of the session.

It is worth playing around with different ideas and strategies in sim to see what works and what doesn't, but don't get caught up trying to find the holy grail as you will forever be chasing your own tail. We all see the market & react to it differently and what works for me might not work for you, you really have to find something you are comfortable with.


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## >Apocalypto<

nomore4s said:


> I should probably also mention that I have book trader open and keep a close eye on the price action in the ladder.




Hi Nomore, thanks for your reply. I also use BookTrader and watch the depth, not that I am understanding much of it that much. Like you guys I watch ti the whole time I have a trade open. 



> After enough hours you can see moves coming to an end or basing or topping patterns forming, it is very hard to explain how I trade and tbh I probably couldn't teach it to anyone. Decisions have to be made in a split second trading on 1min charts and I've lost count of the times I've missed great trades because I hesitated or I've been caught in losing trades because I entered prematurely not wanting to miss the move, the trick is not to let those set backs affect your trading for the rest of the session.




I am not on 1min staying on 2-3min. I am just going to play around with this I know what you mean about split second decisions on these time frames. Thanks for sharing some thing you watch out for.



> It is worth playing around with different ideas and strategies in sim to see what works and what doesn't, but don't get caught up trying to find the holy grail as you will forever be chasing your own tail. We all see the market & react to it differently and what works for me might not work for you, you really have to find something you are comfortable with




What I have found myself doing more and more ATM on the floor trader method is only taking on some of the signals that break highs or lows. I found I am trading more off support and resistance with retracements then just blindly following the entries as explained in the system. Due to this and after reading Sam and your posts I thought what’s the difference of having the MAs on the chart or not?

Going to have a play around with it, Appreciate your feed aback Nomore. Good trading to you


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## nomore4s

So I'm not accused of posting only good days up, here is what a bad day looks like for me (although in the end it turned out ok). The first one is obviously when I'm down and the second shows I've managed to pull it back.

Been chasing my tail all day today. I didn't trade yesterday so have posted up all of this weeks results.

So all in all not a bad week.

I mis-read Crude early and was trying to trade long off what I thought was support but of course I ended up getting burnt a bit, I was down quite a bit at one stage but one of the things I really love about crude is it gives you plenty of opportunities to get back to even or eventually make some profit. I actually was trading quite well after I re-set myself and actually listened to the market and not my bias.

You'll also notice the amount of commission is up on todays results compared to the rest of the week which highlights how I've struggled today & how much harder I've had to work.


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## ThingyMajiggy

Started out as a good week, was up about 70c on Tuesday, then typical me decided to try a few new things, which of course ended in failure, gave it all back and went in the red by about that much 

So tonight I decided to go back to how I started and managed to get back into the green again, had a reasonable run on the open, this is the first 45 minutes or so. Just tonight I'm up about 88c, for the week about 25c or so.  

I really need to fix my problem of getting distracted and trying to find new ideas or try new things, I do it all the time, need to just stick at one thing, I don't really change anything all that major, but I seem to waste a lot of time doing the actual changing, swapping between programs, fiddling with this, reading up about that etc etc. Next thing its Friday and I'm still fart-ar$eing around 

BTW, impressive effort and nice trading 4s


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## iced earth

_*wti oil - 15 May 2010:*_

The support line of the blue channel has been broken definitely , the target could be around $ 60 . The red channel is also on the verge of break, this could have a target even lower than the blue one.


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## nomore4s

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Started out as a good week, was up about 70c on Tuesday, then typical me decided to try a few new things, which of course ended in failure, gave it all back and went in the red by about that much
> 
> So tonight I decided to go back to how I started and managed to get back into the green again, had a reasonable run on the open, this is the first 45 minutes or so. Just tonight I'm up about 88c, for the week about 25c or so.
> 
> I really need to fix my problem of getting distracted and trying to find new ideas or try new things, I do it all the time, need to just stick at one thing, I don't really change anything all that major, but I seem to waste a lot of time doing the actual changing, swapping between programs, fiddling with this, reading up about that etc etc. Next thing its Friday and I'm still fart-ar$eing around




Sam this is an area of your trading you really need to address. You're stuck in a bit of a beginners cycle imo.

You have stated that before going live you want to achieve some consistant results but how do you expect to achieve consistant results when you don't trade consistantly?

I'm also not sure why you feel the need to change systems when you are obviously making money with the one you are using, this is a drawback to sim trading imo, it gets "boring" or whatever and it becomes to easy to change strategies/systems/ideas and then you don't actually achieve anything because you have no consistant approach to the market.


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## ThingyMajiggy

WTF! 

Anyone else got this problem? I have just changed over to July expiry on CL, my June was running @ 68-69, my July is running @ 72.40ish right now. My chart has gone mental, I changed NT over to July and it starts @ 68 then snaps up to 72 on a HUGE candle, weird part is its doing it on BOTH feeds, IB and eSignal. 

Never seen this happen before, is anyone else getting this or is it my end playing up, kinda weird that both feeds are doing it, I can't seem to get any backfill on the july data, it just starts @ 68, then cracks up to 72 a second or so later(once the chart has loaded).


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## nomore4s

ThingyMajiggy said:


> WTF!
> 
> Anyone else got this problem? I have just changed over to July expiry on CL, my June was running @ 68-69, my July is running @ 72.40ish right now. My chart has gone mental, I changed NT over to July and it starts @ 68 then snaps up to 72 on a HUGE candle, weird part is its doing it on BOTH feeds, IB and eSignal.
> 
> Never seen this happen before, is anyone else getting this or is it my end playing up, kinda weird that both feeds are doing it, I can't seem to get any backfill on the july data, it just starts @ 68, then cracks up to 72 a second or so later(once the chart has loaded).




Sam try loading the data into Amibroker and see if it has the same problem.


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## ThingyMajiggy

nomore4s said:


> Sam try loading the data into Amibroker and see if it has the same problem.




Yeah works fine in Ami. Just found out what the problem is, went onto the NT forum and others had the same thing, there is a setting that needs to be changed in the instrument settings for those interested. Need to change the merge settings to "DoNotMerge".


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## ThingyMajiggy

All fixed, makes a bit more sense now! +35c tonight. Missed a good long while I was stuffin around with that problem I had, ah well, not like theres a lack of opportunity with this thing.


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## iced earth

_*oil- WTI : 25 MAY 2010*_

   As been mentioned before, the short time rise in oil was only a pull back after breaking the channel. the goal would be around 60$


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## ThingyMajiggy

iced earth said:


> As been mentioned before, the short time rise in oil was only a pull back after breaking the channel. the goal would be around 60$




Currently trading @ high 73s

What now? $60 still the target? You said that on the 25th, picked it well....you could be handy to have around, fade iced-earth  :


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## Twiddle

Can I ask how long you average trade time is, when you are trading crude Nomore4s?

Do you ever have troubles with your trades being filled?

I have been testing a demo account with Ninjatrader and Mirus futures, and I am trying to work out if I can get away with making many quick trades, or if latency from Oz to the US will kill my quick trading.


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## iced earth

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Currently trading @ high 73s
> 
> What now? $60 still the target? You said that on the 25th, picked it well....you could be handy to have around, fade iced-earth  :




Dear Sam

  I am right here ( no fade) . the pattern has not been failed yet, as the current move would be a pull back. But for the sake of my Investment and global economy I rather see the pattern fail rather than prevail.

Cheers
Mohsen


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## ThingyMajiggy

Half decent rally on crude tonight, well, everything for that matter.  I thought there would be a bounce tonight, but didn't think it would be quite this strong.


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## skyQuake

ThingyMajiggy said:


> Half decent rally on crude tonight, well, everything for that matter.  I thought there would be a bounce tonight, but didn't think it would be quite this strong.




Haha was watching that. Absolutely nuts!


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## nomore4s

Twiddle said:


> Can I ask how long you average trade time is, when you are trading crude Nomore4s?
> 
> Do you ever have troubles with your trades being filled?
> 
> I have been testing a demo account with Ninjatrader and Mirus futures, and I am trying to work out if I can get away with making many quick trades, or if latency from Oz to the US will kill my quick trading.




1 to 5 min maybe a bit longer if I get on a strong move, no problems with being filled but you do need to be quick.


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## nomore4s

Twiddle said:


> Can I ask how long you average trade time is, when you are trading crude Nomore4s?
> 
> Do you ever have troubles with your trades being filled?
> 
> I have been testing a demo account with Ninjatrader and Mirus futures, and I am trying to work out if I can get away with making many quick trades, or if latency from Oz to the US will kill my quick trading.






nomore4s said:


> 1 to 5 min maybe a bit longer if I get on a strong move, no problems with being filled but you do need to be quick.




Just on this. You will probably suffer latency on your charts and will find it a bit difficult to trade purely off the charts, this is where I utilise the price ladder.

I use the charts to help identify zones that I think will provide significant support or resistance then use the price ladder to see how price reacts around those zones - ie does buying come in around support or selling come in around resistance or does the opposite happen where no strength comes in around support and vice-versa.

Trading something like crude off a 1 min chart you can't really wait for the chart to update for entries and exits as you will tend to miss too many moves, you need to anticipate the move to a certain extent.


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## >Apocalypto<

been a while between posts.

last friday made a few crude trades for a +13 cent gain. hope all are still bringing in the cents. Have been back on FX alot lately, but still watching and making quite a few crude trades here and there....

was out of work for a while so was nice to be able concentrate on the markets 100% of the time... it actually helps a lot. (working again now)

been heaps going on in FX and CL still shake my head at the current price. was not long ago CL was at 69!


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## Agentm

the US have moved the aircraft carrier through the suez

along with go 12 warships and a submarine

'The Suez Canal traffic was disrupted for hours in the morning during the crossing of U.S. Navy, which includes a giant aircraft carrier, soldiers, ships and infantry, armor and ammunition, coming from the Mediterranean Sea on its way to the Red Sea'


the Egyptians have mobilized thousands of troops along the suez to protect the convoy..


this will make it 3 aircraft carriers in the region that are obviously there just for sightseeing 

it appears the 3rd aircraft carrier is the CVN-75 Harry Truman..  which is a super carrier

i am tipping oil is not about to go through the floor any time soon..

time for war,, lock and load..


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## iced earth

*Oil WTI - 12 Aug 2010:*

      The upward channel in 4Hr been broken, the target would be around 74 $


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