# New to CFDs (a baby in this forum)



## ocelot911 (25 April 2009)

Hey guys,

My name is Dan im 18 and am currently studying commerce at Monash. Recently i just opened a cfd trading account through cmcmarkets and have marketmaker installed. I did the no loss trade day and loss $136 which was a good learning experience. I gambled on the day as I had no theory on why i was going long or short, i tried to use the chart to help but still i gambled. Btw i traded on the Aussie 200 and my intial deposit is $500.

My aim is pretty much to educate as much as possible. I'm here to seek your advice and here to be taught invaluable lessons. Just asking for someone to help me start and guide me in the right direction. So yeah i want to learn about the ASX200 and CFD's and asking you guys for your help.

Regards,

Dan


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## So_Cynical (25 April 2009)

*Re: New to CFD's ( a baby in this forum)*

Hi Dan

Going on the info in your first post...prob be a good idea to close that CMC account....and do a little learning first.

Lesson 1. leverage is for people who have at least half an idea of what there doing.


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## johenmo (25 April 2009)

*Re: New to CFD's ( a baby in this forum)*

Easy and painful to lose your own money.

Just as easy and more painful to lose someone else's money (the leverage).  That's what I learned.  Listen to Cynical.


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## ocelot911 (25 April 2009)

*Re: New to CFD's (a baby in this forum)*

I understand. What can i do now then? Like i want to learn strategies etc. all the necessities needed to start. I know the basics and know it isnt enough to start. But yeah, can you guys give me advice on where to start regarding CFD's and the ASX200/SPI. Btw the money that i loss will be refunded as it is part of the deal.


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## ThingyMajiggy (25 April 2009)

*Re: New to CFD's (a baby in this forum)*

Learn about yourself, risk and money management first. 

Find a strategy and time frame that works for you, read books, lots around on CFDs if thats what you want to concentrate on. 

Also, if I was you, I would be getting rid of the CMC account.

But, thats just my opinion.


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## Bobby (25 April 2009)

*Re: New to CFD's (a baby in this forum)*

Your going to get smashed !  
If you want to test this  ?  then use their charts & place your trades on this simulator  http://sfetradinggame.if5.com/home.aspx  then at least your money will still exist


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## ocelot911 (25 April 2009)

*Re: New to CFD's (a baby in this forum)*

Can i just leave the account idle instead of closing it? Can i have a link to some of the threads on where i can start.


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## ocelot911 (25 April 2009)

*Re: New to CFD's (a baby in this forum)*

Can i have some recommendations/steps on resources links/books etc.


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## Wysiwyg (25 April 2009)

*Re: New to CFD's (a baby in this forum)*



ocelot911 said:


> Can i have some resources links/books etc.




I have never read a book on CFD`s because I prefer to learn about trading but here is a list of books found in the ASF bookshop. Be adventurous and type into google anything you like. 

http://www.moneybags.com.au/default.asp?d=0&t=1&c=138&a=74


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## craigj (28 April 2009)

*Re: New to CFD's (a baby in this forum)*

as a newby 
i showed interest in joining cmc but didnt join received follow up marketing but now being offered a $3000 2 day course for free by joining up
give them a call and ask if you could do the course there are limited numbers so dont delay

to the experts out there
are cmc a good cfd provider ?
thought i might use comsec for buying and holding and cmc to buy and sell stock ahort term

any thoughts


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## emilov (28 April 2009)

*Re: New to CFD's (a baby in this forum)*

You Guys!
Stop bashing the newbies . Remember we all started somewhere. I think it's great that a person is unafraid of risk.

That said, there is being unafraid and being ignorant. Gambling with trading is like gambling with anything else, you will lose sooner or later, everything. What distinguishes trading from gambling is a method/system with an edge, sound money management skills and psychology/discipline. These need a lot of reading but also need a lot of practice, practice, practice. Therefore I recommend after learning a method to paper trade it till you can do it in your sleep.

While I'm not a CFD trader (I trade options exclusively, much more flexible) I can recommend a few "universal" books. Also I'd look around for a good CFD or Futures course.

- All three "Market Wizards" Books from Schwager: to catch a glimpse of what you are getting yourself into
- Stan Weinstein: Secrets fir Profiting in Bull and Bear Markets: technical analysis 101
- Steve Nisson: Japanese Candlestick Charting Techniques: technical analysis 201 ;-)
- Alexander Elder: Come into my Trading Room: more technical analysis, you see the pattern here ;-)
- Tony Oz: The Stock Trader
- Edwin Lefevre: Reminiscences of a Stock Operator: a timeless classic

Have fun, I can give you 10 - 20 more if you want 

Cheers, Emil


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## ivant (28 April 2009)

*Re: New to CFD's (a baby in this forum)*



ocelot911 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> My name is Dan im 18 and am currently studying commerce at Monash. Recently i just opened a cfd trading account through cmcmarkets and have marketmaker installed. I did the no loss trade day and loss $136 which was a good learning experience. I gambled on the day as I had no theory on why i was going long or short, i tried to use the chart to help but still i gambled. Btw i traded on the Aussie 200 and my intial deposit is $500.
> 
> ...




Hey Dan,

Well done on getting in early! It will help with your degree and more importantly you will do really well if you continue after all the failing. I am at Monash too, which campus are you at? I am in 4th year though. 

In terms of trading, its pretty hard to start from CFDs without any understanding of shares. 

Here are some books you can read:
Market Wizards and New Markets Wizards
Reminiscence of a stock Operator
Martin Pring on Chart Patterns
Books by Van Tharp, Michael Covel
Definitive Guide to the Futures Market
Hedge Hunters (is pretty ok)
The complete TurtleTrader

A good start. Those books have helped me a fair bit. 



Bobby said:


> Your going to get smashed !
> If you want to test this  ?  then use their charts & place your trades on this simulator  http://sfetradinggame.if5.com/home.aspx  then at least your money will still exist




Hey Bob 

Great point! I was always too restless to do simulators and so I lost a lot of money, but its great if you have the patience to learn without putting money on the line. 



craigj said:


> as a newby
> i showed interest in joining cmc but didnt join received follow up marketing but now being offered a $3000 2 day course for free by joining up
> give them a call and ask if you could do the course there are limited numbers so dont delay
> 
> ...




I left that seminar after 5 minutes. It is not a $3000 seminar haha. It is bollocks. I swear the guy who was trying to teach hasn't traded a day in his life. They have been doing it for ages. They teach you to do stop losses  Very important with CFD providers so that they can spike markets and stop you out.

I have CMC and IG and i prefer IG. Nicer platform and I like the charting more. I am in the process to switching to IB. CFDs are getting a little too expensive for me, but i trade futures. Check out Bell Potter for stocks  Reliable platform and cheaper execution than Commsec.


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## beamstas (28 April 2009)

*Re: New to CFD's (a baby in this forum)*



ivant said:


> They teach you to do stop losses  Very important with CFD providers so that they can spike markets and stop you out.




Well said


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## emilov (28 April 2009)

*Re: New to CFD's (a baby in this forum)*

Ouch, I knew there was a reason I don't trade CFDs . This does not happen to options (although there is quite enough of underlying stock insider trading, so one gets screwed over no matter what).

Say guys, what are the commissions on trading CFDs? I know that futures commissions can be about half that of options. High brokerage costs are the only real nuisance for me as an options trader.


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## ivant (28 April 2009)

*Re: New to CFD's (a baby in this forum)*



beamstas said:


> Well said




Haha  But you know its so true. I was there literally for 15 minutes and that's all they drilled. It was so funny a few weeks later I got a call from one of the guys who run it telling me, there is this follow up course that Hubb is organising, and its only 4k instead of 15 or something crazy like that. 

"Firstly", he starts, "what did you think of the current course?"
"It was a really well ran course, but it was a little pitched at beginners too much, so I left after the first 15 minutes."
"Oh I see, so how well do you do in your trading then?," he asks with sarcasm implying he is a God and I am a piece of junk on the ground. 
"I trade full time."
"So what is your return?"
"Enough to live on this full time, good bye "

It was one of the oddest conversations I have ever had. But I did feel very sorry for the people in the room because most of them were there with no knowledge of markets at all, like stay-at-home mothers and people hit by the recession.   



emilov said:


> Ouch, I knew there was a reason I don't trade CFDs . This does not happen to options (although there is quite enough of underlying stock insider trading, so one gets screwed over no matter what).
> 
> Say guys, what are the commissions on trading CFDs? I know that futures commissions can be about half that of options. High brokerage costs are the only real nuisance for me as an options trader.




What kind of CFDs? As in what instruments? CFDs have hidden costs like high interest that they charge and the spread that they have. Do you trade futures options, or stock options? Emilov, is that your surname? If so, are you Russian? (sorry to ask this publically )


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## emilov (29 April 2009)

*Re: New to CFD's (a baby in this forum)*

Ivan hey, I'm Bulgarian  but I've been living in Australia for a while (Brisbane).

I trade stock options exclusively, so BHP etc. Currently I'm in NCM and STO trades. So my question regarding CFD commissions was how high would it be for stock CFDs (i.e. a simple buy/sell)?

(btw. for the life of me I can't find where to edit my location so that it appears on the left. Also some users have their names show there as well. This info I can't enter in the Profile so where the hell do I do that?)


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## ivant (29 April 2009)

*Re: New to CFD's (a baby in this forum)*



emilov said:


> Ivan hey, I'm Bulgarian  but I've been living in Australia for a while (Brisbane).
> 
> I trade stock options exclusively, so BHP etc. Currently I'm in NCM and STO trades. So my question regarding CFD commissions was how high would it be for stock CFDs (i.e. a simple buy/sell)?
> 
> (btw. for the life of me I can't find where to edit my location so that it appears on the left. Also some users have their names show there as well. This info I can't enter in the Profile so where the hell do I do that?)




Hey  That's cool. I've been here since I was 8  I came from Russia . 

In any case, be careful on the long side at the moment . stock CFDs are pretty decent. From memory you pay a minimum commission of 0.1% with a minimum of charge of $8. At least thats what IG Market has.

sorry can't help you with the name, because im not sure i have even seen that, but seems you got the location up 

Ivan


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## emilov (29 April 2009)

*Re: New to CFD's (a baby in this forum)*

Heh, don't worry about it. I make money trading options so I'm not changing horses in the middle of the race . That said, I am currently reading a book on trading the SPI to broaden my horizon. I find the simplicity of trading futures appealing.


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## craigj (30 April 2009)

*Re: New to CFD's (a baby in this forum)*

thanks ivan
glad i m not missing anything
didnt bother to take up offer because if it sounds to good to be true !!

cheers


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## ivant (1 May 2009)

*Re: New to CFD's (a baby in this forum)*



emilov said:


> Heh, don't worry about it. I make money trading options so I'm not changing horses in the middle of the race . That said, I am currently reading a book on trading the SPI to broaden my horizon. I find the simplicity of trading futures appealing.




Lol, not sure how simple they are, but you know. It all works. Then you get Futures Options that i am thinking of trading 



craigj said:


> thanks ivan
> glad i m not missing anything
> didnt bother to take up offer because if it sounds to good to be true !!
> 
> cheers




yea it sort of does! although such a great lesson about stop losses!


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## mlennox (2 May 2009)

*Re: New to CFD's (a baby in this forum)*



ocelot911 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> My name is Dan im 18 and am currently studying commerce at Monash. Recently i just opened a cfd trading account through cmcmarkets and have marketmaker installed. I did the no loss trade day and loss $136 which was a good learning experience. I gambled on the day as I had no theory on why i was going long or short, i tried to use the chart to help but still i gambled. Btw i traded on the Aussie 200 and my intial deposit is $500.
> 
> ...




Hey Dan,

Welcome to ASF and welcome to trading.

Education Vs. Experience. You won't learn the invaluable lessons listening to anyone here or reading any book, as everyone is at different levels of trading experience. Despite the tone of the posts also in this forum, i would suggest continuing down the path of trading with real cash and attempting to find "what works for you".

In terms of reading: (in order of personal priority)

Van Tharp - Trade your way to financial freedom
Prechter - Wave Analysis

What you will find as you learn and develop is a method, a method for measuring risk and a method for measuring good entry and exit points. The holy grail is not either of these methods, the holy grail is winning more then you lose. Do not try to be right or wrong, just try to be a winner rather then a loser.

Good Luck!
Mark


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