# My trading results



## skc (4 March 2009)

I have been trading a system using some MM ASX200 index products for about 4 months. Here are the results.

No. of trades   1200
Win rate          87%

Avg win           3.85 pts
Avg loss         -2.12 pts

Largest win     24.4 pts
Largest loss    -12.7 pts

The purpose of the post is simply to share my results and to show what is possible when you find an edge in the market. I have to say it was quite a successful system  

Unfortunately for one reason or another this system can no longer be continued (and hence me posting the results). So back to the drawing board...


----------



## waz (4 March 2009)

So what is the system and why can't it be used anymore?
Can it be used for anything else other than the ASX200?

Can the system be combined with other systems? ie. in combination with Fib retracements...


----------



## jersey10 (4 March 2009)

An average of 10 trades per day, with an 87% win rate and an average win almost twice as big as the average loss - wow it sounds too good to be true


----------



## MRC & Co (4 March 2009)

jersey10 said:


> An average of 10 trades per day, with an 87% win rate and an average win almost twice as big as the average loss - wow it sounds too good to be true




lol, that's what I was thinking.

With results like that and compounding, you would be a freekin billionaire!!


----------



## Cartman (4 March 2009)

skc said:


> I have been trading a system using some MM ASX200 index products for about 4 months. Here are the results.
> 
> No. of trades   1200
> Win rate          87%
> ...




Those are seriously good stats SKC ----- If you are not using the system any more, would u be so kind as to detail the parameters a little more ----- dont require the guts of the system, but a bit more meat would be nice


----------



## Bobby (4 March 2009)

skc said:


> Unfortunately for one reason or another this system can no longer be continued (and hence me posting the results). So back to the drawing board...




Did the MM provider shut you out ?


----------



## skc (5 March 2009)

jersey10 said:


> An average of 10 trades per day, with an 87% win rate and an average win almost twice as big as the average loss - wow it sounds too good to be true






Bobby said:


> Did the MM provider shut you out ?




It wasn't too good to be true, but it was too good to last. The MM did kick me out. There are many threads on this forum where people complained about MM manipulating prices - and they do. But I was basically able to figure out how and when they do it, and trade accordingly to my advantage. They have a system to follow, so the high win rate is achievable once you know what they are doing. 

Since then (a few months now), they've changed things around so no one can do the same thing anymore.



MRC & Co said:


> lol, that's what I was thinking.
> 
> With results like that and compounding, you would be a freekin billionaire!!




I did increasingly trade larger positions. But I knew the MM was going to get on to me sooner or later, so I was trying to fly under the radar a bit and trade somewhat modestly. It generated a nice return for quite some time. I also needed to be mindful that the MM could change things on me while I have large positions open.



waz said:


> Can it be used for anything else other than the ASX200?




I am looking at the UK and US, plus studying other MM's pricing. May be my method can be transported, but not that promising at this stage.


----------



## MRC & Co (5 March 2009)

Good stuff then skc.

Sounds a lot like some kind of arbing.


----------



## nizar (5 March 2009)

skc said:


> I have been trading a system using some MM ASX200 index products for about 4 months. Here are the results.
> 
> No. of trades   1200
> Win rate          87%
> ...




Wow, good work skc.
A solid expectancy coupled with that sort of trade frequency is just amazing. Shows what can be achieved.


----------



## nomore4s (5 March 2009)

skc said:


> It wasn't too good to be true, but it was too good to last. The MM did kick me out. There are many threads on this forum where people complained about MM manipulating prices - and they do. But I was basically able to figure out how and when they do it, and trade accordingly to my advantage. They have a system to follow, so the high win rate is achievable once you know what they are doing.
> 
> Since then (a few months now), they've changed things around so no one can do the same thing anymore.




lol, excellent, beat them at their own game. Well done.


----------



## Bobby (5 March 2009)

skc said:


> It wasn't too good to be true, but it was too good to last. The MM did kick me out. There are many threads on this forum where people complained about MM manipulating prices - and they do. But I was basically able to figure out how and when they do it, and trade accordingly to my advantage. They have a system to follow, so the high win rate is achievable once you know what they are doing.
> 
> .




Yep , as you stated to good to last 
  Unfortunately as the MMs can monitor whats said on this forum you will not be able to say out loud certain information.

 I'd love to know how you managed to stay under their radar for so long , also know you can't post that information 

Your between a rock & a hard place  ( scalping )

Bet you get heaps of PMs !


----------



## beerwm (5 March 2009)

stupid question;

whats a MM? - market maker?


----------



## James Austin (5 March 2009)

skc said:


> I have been trading a system using some MM ASX200 index products for about 4 months. Here are the results.
> 
> No. of trades   1200
> Win rate          87%
> ...





this sounds a bit too James Bondish for me skc, too many unanswered questions.

the system can no longer be used, but you cant detail it? huh? 

i'm not suggesting you didnt achieve the results you did, but there is no way for anyone to verify without a viewing of your trade account across the period.

any can start a thread and say _"look what can be done, but i'm not going to verify it nor explain the mechanics_". 

what's the point?

more detail re the now defunct strategy and the trades would give credence and value to the thread.

*Also, and most importantly*, if you can prove that MMs manipulate price as you claim, then this is something ASIC needs to know about. How about it skc?


----------



## prawn_86 (5 March 2009)

James Austin said:


> *Also, and most importantly*, if you can prove that MMs manipulate price as you claim, then this is something ASIC needs to know about. How about it skc?




Not sure if ASIC regulate MM CFD trading. Its classed as 'gambling income' through the ATO (IE no CGT etc) so ASIC probably dont worry about them.

I could be wrong though.

PS - i KNOW from a friend that when you are succesful they start to widen spreads etc to price you out of the scalping game. I have seen statements and live trading to back this up


----------



## Bobby (5 March 2009)

prawn_86 said:


> PS - i KNOW from a friend that when you are succesful they start to widen spreads etc to price you out of the scalping game. I have seen statements and live trading to back this up




Spot on Prawn ,
Thats why he can't give the guts , MMs are nice to you ' until you get the better of them


----------



## jersey10 (5 March 2009)

So if they are only 'fair' when you are losing and shut you down when you beat them why would anyone ever trade with a MM?


----------



## BentRod (6 March 2009)

> PS - i KNOW from a friend that when you are succesful they start to widen spreads etc to price you out of the scalping game. I have seen statements and live trading to back this up




Which broker was this with Prawn??

@SKC......impressive stats, well done mate. A shame they cut you off

What was it, a faster feed


----------



## Bobby (6 March 2009)

jersey10 said:


> So if they are only 'fair' when you are losing and shut you down when you beat them why would anyone ever trade with a MM?




Reason being Cost per trade , E.G. when doing a 100 trade scalps per day only MM provide that .

But when you win & win they don't like you anymore


----------



## RobinHood (6 March 2009)

> So if they are only 'fair' when you are losing and shut you down when you beat them why would anyone ever trade with a MM?




No, if your time-frame allows it they should be able to hedge against you - so putting you on manual execution. But if you're trading very fast this is not possible - so they just slow down your execution. fair game. how else they make money?

Cost of an MM is alot more per trade than any futures broker, but they will let you deal with much smaller size so its good fun if your just starting out...


----------



## prawn_86 (6 March 2009)

jersey10 said:


> So if they are only 'fair' when you are losing and shut you down when you beat them why would anyone ever trade with a MM?




To start out, or for those with smaller capital base.



BentRod said:


> Which broker was this with Prawn??




Rather not say sorry, but to quote Fight Club, lets just say: "A major one"


----------



## skc (6 March 2009)

James Austin said:


> this sounds a bit too James Bondish for me skc, too many unanswered questions.
> 
> the system can no longer be used, but you cant detail it? huh?
> 
> ...




I am not here to sell a system or promote my blog, nor I am a first time poster sending cryptic messages. You can equally ask the question of What's the Point if this is indeed a _"look what can be done, but i'm not going to verify it nor explain the mechanics"_ thread. 

From my point of view, as I said in the original post, the purpose is simply to demonstrate what is achievable when one finds an edge, albeit in the short term. 

Unfortunately I am not going to be able to verify the results without giving more details away. As Bobby mentioned, there are MM's active here, and I am still trying to see if a similar strategy can be used in other instruments and markets.

I will let you decide what you care to believe.



James Austin said:


> *Also, and most importantly*, if you can prove that MMs manipulate price as you claim, then this is something ASIC needs to know about. How about it skc?




Perhaps manipulate is not the right word - but they do adjust. See this thread here. From memory you trade with IG so you should know!  https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13734&highlight=cfd&page=2

Also, as repeatedly discussed across multiple threads, MMs are exactly that, they make market all they like and it's up to the trader to accept the price, understand their rules, and profit from it rather than just complaining about it.


----------



## skc (6 March 2009)

BentRod said:


> What was it, a faster feed




Was this question directed to me? I don't have a faster feed. I do know another MM having a slower feed, however.

Anyway as they say in Fight Club - A major one...


----------



## James Austin (6 March 2009)

skc said:


> Was this question directed to me? I don't have a faster feed. I do know another MM having a slower feed, however.
> 
> Anyway as they say in Fight Club - A major one...




did you find a MM a few beats behind the futures skc??


----------



## MRC & Co (6 March 2009)

skc said:


> Was this question directed to me? I don't have a faster feed. I do know another MM having a slower feed, however.




Ah, so it is arb by the looks.


----------



## Cartman (6 March 2009)

MRC & Co said:


> Ah, so it is arb by the looks.




  sounds pretty sweet to me!!

you're a naughty boy SKC ----- shame shame shame


----------

