# Islam, a philosophy in decline??



## Garpal Gumnut (6 August 2008)

An interesting article on the dilemma faced by many Islamists living in a postmodern world.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/africa/7536985.stm


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## It's Snake Pliskin (16 November 2008)

> Like it, moderate Islam’s single-minded pursuit has never been about blending.




http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/less-violent-islamists-are-still-islamists/

I think it is time policy makers got educated.


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## Sean K (16 November 2008)

It's Snake Pliskin said:


> http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/less-violent-islamists-are-still-islamists/
> 
> I think it is time policy makers got educated.



Good article Snake.



> Moderate Muslims here can enhance the process not by demanding free passes on polygamy, oppression of women, radical religiosity, and restrictions of personal freedoms, but by absorbing the values of where they landed.



Take note south west Sydney.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (16 November 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> An interesting article on the dilemma faced by many Islamists living in a postmodern world.
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/africa/7536985.stm




An interesting blog on what the author calls lies.
http://www.kactuzkid.com/lies.html

Kennas,

I have some experience of dealing with the people who hate western values. I was totally discriminated against.

cheers.


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## IFocus (16 November 2008)

Thanks for the links Snake

The Crusade history was some thing I hadn't considered in the context presented, funny as I knew the history pre- Crusade's reasonably well but formed my bias on the slaughter of the 1st crusade.  

Have had a number of extended discussions with migrants who follow Islam and wondered how they would ever integrate to accept our values as their own.

The blog you linked has been my own experience


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## Lantern (17 November 2008)

Pat Condell on appeasing Islam.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=y9dXGJ2rYdA


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## 2020hindsight (17 November 2008)

Well they say Islam is on the increase in PNG (today's news) .   Apparently fastest in the highlands !??   Which as they say, is bludy strange, considering the only meat they can grow in the villages is pigmeat. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Papua_New_Guinea



> Muslims growing rapidly
> New missionary movements are beginning to proliferate, most significantly Islam, the probable reason for the harsh reactions. There are pockets of Muslims around Port Moresby, in Baimuru, Daru, Marchall Lagoon, the Musa Valley and in the islands of New Britain and New Ireland. *It is in the highlands that Islam has seen the most growth*.[6]


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## Largesse (17 November 2008)

A readers comment from the first BBC article:

"How sensitively we treat the racism and discrimination of the west at the hands of Islam. While this is a matter for this young man's conscience we shouldn’t be too sympathetic to his parochial ways. *Would a story about a young man in London refusing to work for or with Muslims be treated with such an understanding tone?* "


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## It's Snake Pliskin (18 November 2008)

Largesse said:


> A readers comment from the first BBC article:
> 
> "How sensitively we treat the racism and discrimination of the west at the hands of Islam. While this is a matter for this young man's conscience we shouldn’t be too sympathetic to his parochial ways. *Would a story about a young man in London refusing to work for or with Muslims be treated with such an understanding tone?* "




No he would be called a racist for CHOICE by the cowards of the leftie multicultural experiment. 

Thanks for posting the above video.


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## chops_a_must (18 November 2008)

It's Snake Pliskin said:


> No he would be called a racist for CHOICE by the cowards of the leftie multicultural experiment.
> 
> Thanks for posting the above video.




Lol.

Don't you live in Japan? Are you Japanese born and raised?


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## It's Snake Pliskin (18 November 2008)

chops_a_must said:


> Lol.
> 
> Don't you live in Japan? Are you Japanese born and raised?




I'm an Aussie living abroad for a while. Problem with that?


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## chops_a_must (18 November 2008)

It's Snake Pliskin said:


> I'm an Aussie living abroad for a while. Problem with that?



Nope.

It's just hilarious you can't see the irony.


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## Bobby (18 November 2008)

Hello Snake ,

I'm back to say my stuff again '
Hope alls well with you in Jap land ?

Bob himself !!


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## It's Snake Pliskin (18 November 2008)

chops_a_must said:


> Nope.
> 
> It's just hilarious you can't see the irony.




Opinion, free speech and choice. You revel in it and so do many others. 

I am amazed at your superior abilities. Wow, on fire babe.

Bob,
I hope all is well. 
Take care.


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## Bobby (18 November 2008)

It's Snake Pliskin said:


> Bob,
> I hope all is well.
> Take care.




Thank you Snake,
Many adventures to tell .

Bob.


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## Sunder (18 November 2008)

Largesse said:


> A readers comment from the first BBC article:
> 
> "How sensitively we treat the racism and discrimination of the west at the hands of Islam. While this is a matter for this young man's conscience we shouldn’t be too sympathetic to his parochial ways. *Would a story about a young man in London refusing to work for or with Muslims be treated with such an understanding tone?* "




Interesting you should mention that, I read in Voice of the Matyrs (Yes, a Christian magazine), that more Christians are put to death every year in Fundamentalist Muslim countries, than Muslims have died in the current Iraq war to date, yet Muslims claim that the Christian West is oppressing Islam?

That article someone posted about Islam using selective truths has a huge ring of truth to it.

At the end of the day, we need to treat people on their merits, not on their supposed culture and supposed beliefs. I'm genetically Asian, but any assumption on my culture is more likely than not to be wrong. I'm also Christian, but if anyone associated me with abortion clinic bombing mad men, or homosexual hating campaigners they'd be wrong too.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (18 November 2008)

Sunder said:


> Interesting you should mention that, I read in Voice of the Matyrs (Yes, a Christian magazine), that more Christians are put to death every year in Fundamentalist Muslim countries, than Muslims have died in the current Iraq war to date, yet Muslims claim that the Christian West is oppressing Islam?
> 
> That article someone posted about Islam using selective truths has a huge ring of truth to it.
> 
> At the end of the day, *we need to treat people on their merits*, not on their supposed culture and supposed beliefs. I'm genetically Asian, but any assumption on my culture is more likely than not to be wrong. I'm also Christian, but if anyone associated me with abortion clinic bombing mad men, or homosexual hating campaigners they'd be wrong too.




Exactly, Christians are under attack from all walks of life. Just look at Britain to see what the people in power - especially schools - are doing. 

Unfortunately when a religious doctrine doesn't allow the thinking of merits as opposed to intolerance there will be many more incidents and problems ahead for christians, jews and atheists.


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## Julia (18 November 2008)

Bobby said:


> Hello Snake ,
> 
> I'm back to say my stuff again '
> Hope alls well with you in Jap land ?
> ...




Well, Bobby, you've been absent for so long I doubted you'd be back.
What have you been doing?

Cheers
Julia


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## 2020hindsight (18 November 2008)

Maybe the reason that PNG is going Islam has to do with polygamy 

PS Maybe Christianity will have to "get with the times" 

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2008/s2422121.htm



> STEVE MARSHALL: Papua New Guineans began converting to Islam in the early 1980s. There are now more than 4,000 followers with recent reports of entire villages converting at the same time. Many are drawn to Islam because of the similarities the religion has with Melanesian customs, says Isa Teine, the General Secretary for PNG's Islamic Society.
> 
> ISA TEINE: We eat, we dance. This is Islam. When we greet people we hug them. This is Islam. We don't shake hands and leave them. So most of our cultures are Islamic. *Polygamy. This is Islam. Islam encourages four wives. Before Islam came in, people already had two, three, four wives. This is Islam*. So when the religion came in and said, oh we have to do this, this, our Islamic culture, we have to do this and that, oh people fit in easily.
> 
> *So it's very easy for Papua New Guineans to embrace Islam. Once the religion itself spread I tell you, I'm just predicting in 20, 30 years' time, all Papua New Guinea will submit to Islam*.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (21 November 2008)

An interesting article by the Age regarding domestic violence and a lack of rights for women in Australia. Not to mention welfare fraud.


> "They come from their own little village and culture and say this is what Islam is," one woman is quoted saying. "They come from a village where there is no running water and electricity, and they bring their dark ideas into this country."



Source:
http://www.theage.com.au/national/local-muslim-clerics-accused-20081120-6ctp.html


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## noirua (22 November 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> PS Maybe Christianity will have to "get with the times"



Yes, that is one of the big problems with Christianity as a religion. Many people believe in God but can't see that Christianity stands up as a religion, and see a better course to the next without it.

As to Islam, it is a religion in which many towns are 100% members.  If you are not, then there is no future for you there. If you must be a member then it stands to reason to pretend you believe in everything it represents, no options.


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## Bobby (22 November 2008)

Julia said:


> Well, Bobby, you've been absent for so long I doubted you'd be back.
> What have you been doing?
> 
> Cheers
> Julia




Greetings Julia ,

I'm now a hunter of meteorites , better then trading , especially of late.
Still have a sick looking portfolio that mothballed for now.

Hope your well ?

Regards Bob.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (22 November 2008)

noirua said:


> As to Islam, it is a religion in which many towns are 100% members.  If you are not, then there is no future for you there. If you must be a member then it stands to reason to pretend you believe in everything it represents, no options.




Under Islam there is no other religion, hence the intolerance.


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## 2020hindsight (22 November 2008)

It's Snake Pliskin said:


> Under Islam there is no other religion, hence the intolerance.




You mean like "Thou shalt have no other Gods but me"?


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## mayk (22 November 2008)

It's Snake Pliskin said:


> Under Islam there is no other religion, hence the intolerance.




Reference?  Then how come there are so many Christians still around in the middle east?


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## Sean K (22 November 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> You mean like "Thou shalt have no other Gods but me"?



Yes, that is ancient Hebrew when there were actually many gods floating around, thus the bizaar plural to the word god (as in an 's' onto god) when most people believe there was only ever one God. Actually, monotheism didn't really kick in until around the 5th C...

But, back to the discrimination and/or bigotry to the acceptance of other gods, this is a mystery I am trying to unsolve....

Why the fvckin hell can't there be more than one god??

Que bizaaro!!!


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## It's Snake Pliskin (22 November 2008)

mayk said:


> Reference?  Then how come there are so many Christians still around in the middle east?




Research the Coptic church in Egypt and see if they are happy people.


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## mayk (22 November 2008)

It's Snake Pliskin said:


> Research the Coptic church in Egypt and see if they are happy people.




I don't think it can be generalized to the core of Islam. It is the political power at question there. I don't like the political structure of Egypt. It is run by a dictator, what else do you expect?


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## mayk (22 November 2008)

kennas said:


> Why the fvckin hell can't there be more than one god??




Because they will fight over issues... It goes back to the original question of Power. Lust for more power might cause them to fight. Power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely. But if the danger of loss of the power is not present then power will not corrupt. Hence one God is a necessity for peace and harmony. By corally as we see peace and harmony in nature (not humans ), therefore there must be one God.

I need some sleep..


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## Sean K (22 November 2008)

mayk said:


> Because they will fight over issues... It goes back to the original question of Power. Lust for more power might cause them to fight. Power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely. But if the danger of loss of the power is not present then power will not corrupt. Hence one God is a necessity for peace and harmony. By corally as we see peace and harmony in nature (not humans ), therefore there must be one God.
> 
> I need some sleep..



Interesting...

There actually is some academic work done on the idea of monotheism which I'm studying right now.

Sleep?

It's 2.53 pm there isn't it??


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## 2020hindsight (22 November 2008)

I keep thinking of that line by Mohandas Gandhi ... when near death during one of his fasting sessions, people being slaughtered all over India (prior to the separation with Pakistan) ... turns to one of his Hindu fans ... "and I'd like you to adopt a Moslem child" ... "no problem Gandhi" ...

... "and bring him up as a Moslem" he adds after a few seconds  

As Ghandi said... "an eye for an eye will lead to a blind world"


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## 2020hindsight (22 November 2008)

Here's an idea ...

Every adult Australian should be put on a compulsory refugee assistance program ...

where you teach these poor blighters (and particularly their kids) some English, - and how to assimilate  

Then again - better not let the Islamaphobes go near them - they 'd only poison the well , and prevent any chance of a Christian welcome and a human level of understanding


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## It's Snake Pliskin (22 November 2008)

mayk said:


> I don't think it can be generalized to the core of Islam. It is the political power at question there. I don't like the political structure of Egypt. It is run by a dictator, what else do you expect?




Yes there is a dictator in Egypt. It is a state powerbase that runs the country but not the hearts of all of the citizens. You have my agreement there.

No, it is not the political power in question here. The best of Egypt was many thousands of years ago. Sadly extremism and fundamentalism are growing and have been for a long time. The days of benign Islam in the middle east are gone in some areas. It is starting to go in other areas: Iraq is now one of those areas where the two big sects face off and do untold things to each other. 

Basically the Coptics are discriminated against and relegated to second class citizen status, based on their religion. Not their deeds. 

The following link has some detail on the problems faced by tolerant people in an intolerant reality. If someone has a different take on it I would love to hear it.
http://archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.com/2008/07/coptic-christians-forced-to-convert-to.html

Another source:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/06/AR2008070602283.html

There is a lovely little village in the back of Siria somewhere where Muslims and Christians live together in peace and harmony because they have a common goal of preserving the Aramaic language which Jesus spoke. This is a model for modern society and particularly the immigration experiment. 

Cheers..


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## mayk (23 November 2008)

It's Snake Pliskin said:


> Yes there is a dictator in Egypt. It is a state powerbase that runs the country but not the hearts of all of the citizens. You have my agreement there.
> 
> No, it is not the political power in question here. The best of Egypt was many thousands of years ago. Sadly extremism and fundamentalism are growing and have been for a long time. The days of benign Islam in the middle east are gone in some areas. It is starting to go in other areas: Iraq is now one of those areas where the two big sects face off and do untold things to each other.
> 
> ...




You just proved my point. Regions, cultures and political system effect the people behaviour. Siria is your example of peace and harmony, while Egypt is vice versa.  

You can find particular examples of extreme behaviour in many part of the world. One example is the following, in KSA if you do business in drugs you are killed publically. But the same Wahabi people grow and provide the drugs to many part of the world in Afghanistan. Now you can take one example and mould it to fit your argument. It is not that simple, political, cultural and economic aspects have to be taken into consideration while accessing the people of a certain area.

Religion is more dangerous when used to get political influence. It is quite effective.  I hope you have seen the following BBC documentary:
Part 1
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...JJHqqAOB19zZBA&q=baby+it's+cold+outside&hl=en
Part 2
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...ITyqAOS8_HDBw&q=The+Power+of+Nightmares&hl=en
Part 3
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...pHqqAOB19zZBA&q=The+Power+of+Nightmares&hl=en


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## 2020hindsight (23 November 2008)

mayk said:


> One example is the following, in KSA if you do business in drugs you are killed publically. But the same Wahabi people grow and provide the drugs to many part of the world in Afghanistan.




... and the mafia and the western junkies look on innocently 

The caption reads .. "The man from the Mafia... he say YESSS!!"


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## numbercruncher (24 November 2008)

> Malaysia's top Islamic body fresh from banning tomboys has issued an edict prohibiting Muslims from practising yoga, saying they could be corrupted by elements of Hinduism in the exercise.




http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/mp/5165446/malaysias-muslims-banned-yoga/


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## bellenuit (9 June 2011)

Great talk from Maryam Namazie at the World Atheist Conference in Dublin last weekend.

http://maryamnamazie.blogspot.com/2011/06/islamic-inquisition.html?spref=tw


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## noco (9 June 2011)

It is a pity there is no mail service between heaven and Earth, so those Islamic suicide bombers can mail back to their mates that the 20 virgins promised to them do not exist.


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## Glen48 (9 June 2011)

Maye the Virgin Mary was in Heaven  when a Muslim arrived after blowing himself up 2000 years ago and she came to Earth and gave birth to JC in a manger not realizing it was Xmas time and all the Motel's and hotel's  were booked out.
 Make about as much sense as religion.


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## noco (9 June 2011)

Glen48 said:


> Maye the Virgin Mary was in Heaven  when a Muslim arrived after blowing himself up 2000 years ago and she came to Earth and gave birth to JC in a manger not realizing it was Xmas time and all the Motel's and hotel's  were booked out.
> Make about as much sense as religion.




Yes, I agree.


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## Happy (10 June 2011)

Sunder said:


> Interesting you should mention that, I read in Voice of the Matyrs (Yes, a Christian magazine), that more Christians are put to death every year in Fundamentalist Muslim countries, than Muslims have died in the current Iraq war to date, yet Muslims claim that the Christian West is oppressing Islam?
> 
> That article someone posted about Islam using selective truths has a huge ring of truth to it.




That's about how I see it too. Any reports of Christians being opressed are reported as sort of unimportant isolated incidents.
But if you care to put numbers together they are staggering and sad.

Funny thing is that Democracy seems to be weapon used against us in our country.

Will anybody important who can make decisions see it before it is too late, don't know, but would be good for our sake.


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## noco (14 June 2011)

Happy said:


> That's about how I see it too. Any reports of Christians being opressed are reported as sort of unimportant isolated incidents.
> But if you care to put numbers together they are staggering and sad.
> 
> Funny thing is that Democracy seems to be weapon used against us in our country.
> ...




After viewing the attached link I doubt the Islamic movement is in decline.

As I have mentioned on previous posts, Muslims want a world Islamic state, hence the reason they are infiltrating into the Western world by way of refugees. The Western World will only have themselves to blame for allowing multiculture. It just does not work.

What is happeneing in the UK and Europe will reverberate in Australia. One Muslim cleric has already made a demand to Julia Gillard for Sharia law in Australia. They are using our democracy and freedom of speech to relay their message and are getting away with it.

I say,"be afraid, be very afraid".

http://blogs.news.com.au/couriermail/andrewbolt/index.php/couriermail/comments/making_london_muslim/


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## Boggo (14 June 2011)

The Iranian Ambassador to the UN had just finished giving a speech and walked out into the lobby where he met the U.S. President. They shook hands, and as they walked the Iranian said, "You know, I have just one question about what I have seen in America .." The President said, "Well, anything I can do to help you, I will" The Iranian whispered "My son watches this show 'Star Trek' and in it there is Chekhov who is Russian, Scotty who is Scottish, Uhura who is Black and Sulu who is Japanese, but no Muslims.
My son is very upset and doesn't understand why there aren't any Iranians, Iraqis, Afghans, Syrians or Pakistanis on Star Trek."
The President laughed, leaned toward the Iranian ambassador, and whispered back, "That's because it takes place in the future".


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## Sean K (15 June 2011)

Any philosophy rooted in the past and not possible of change will die eventually.


Until we have all the answers and no longer require faith as a substitute for fact and truth.


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## noco (15 June 2011)

Boggo said:


> The Iranian Ambassador to the UN had just finished giving a speech and walked out into the lobby where he met the U.S. President. They shook hands, and as they walked the Iranian said, "You know, I have just one question about what I have seen in America .." The President said, "Well, anything I can do to help you, I will" The Iranian whispered "My son watches this show 'Star Trek' and in it there is Chekhov who is Russian, Scotty who is Scottish, Uhura who is Black and Sulu who is Japanese, but no Muslims.
> My son is very upset and doesn't understand why there aren't any Iranians, Iraqis, Afghans, Syrians or Pakistanis on Star Trek."
> The President laughed, leaned toward the Iranian ambassador, and whispered back, "That's because it takes place in the future".




I like that one Boggo.


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## trainspotter (15 June 2011)

Islam womens rights are atrocious. For example ...... a woman driving a car is a sinful thing in Saudi Arabia. One should not be surprised at all to find that under Islamic sharia law, women (both Muslim and non-Muslim) are a mere object and are inferior to men, and as a result, they can be treated as such by stripping them away from their basic rights.

From what I have seen lately in the media I do not believe the Islamic movement is in decline. Far from it.


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## Happy (16 June 2011)

trainspotter said:


> Islam womens rights are atrocious. For example ......




Looks that it applies to female children too!

Flicked through the lates National Geografic and just caught my eye (June 2011, page 97. left bottom corner):

12 years old girl is not mature enough to apply for divorce.





trainspotter said:


> From what I have seen lately in the media I do not believe the Islamic movement is in decline. Far from it.




This is exactly how I feel too, probably we are overly suspicious, right?


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## noco (21 June 2011)

Do the police have to tolerate this case of mistaken identity all becuase a muslim woman would not remove her burka. What if she had been a terrorist in disguise?

If she would not remove her burka for varification of ID as per the photo on her Dirvers license, then she should have been arrested. After all her photo would be on her drivers license by law.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/mo...-behind-the-veil/story-fn7x8me2-1226078801032


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## Gringotts Bank (21 June 2011)

In some ways, Islamists deserve our sympathy.  Their whole religion is about the promotion of fear.  If you were born into that sort of society it would be very hard to free your mind from it.  We're all hypnotized by our own thoughts, it's just easier to see in others, particularly when it's so extreme.


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## river10 (21 June 2011)

Gringotts Bank said:


> In some ways, Islamists deserve our sympathy.  Their whole religion is about the promotion of fear.
> .




Really?!! didn't you read the whole thread? It is about promotion of fear from Muslims 

I think it is just a tactic that is used by everyone who is opposing to a certain idea but doesn't have enough logic to have an open dialogue with people who believe in it. same in politics, economy,...etc.

I assure you that muslims would have a similar discussions and similar ideas about christians or other religions.

I wonder how much good did internet do in this area 




Happy said:


> Funny thing is that Democracy seems to be weapon used against us in our country.






noco said:


> I say,"be afraid, be very afraid".






trainspotter said:


> From what I have seen lately in the media I do not believe the Islamic movement is in decline. Far from it.


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## Gringotts Bank (21 June 2011)

If fear is all they know, then of course that's what they promote.  Fear is what they get taught - fear of a woman's sexuality, fear of god, fear of Americans, ... etc.

I can't stand them either, I find them offensive!  I'm just saying that if you or I were born into a Muslim family in an Arab country, then we would have learned all the same stuff.  We'd be burning American flags and be praying 1200 times a day.  Human nature is the most ridiculous joke really - we're just products of our environment.


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## bellenuit (26 June 2011)

Surely a damning indictment.....

(extract)
_Islam has a long and tangled history with science, but there's one point that nearly everyone acknowledges: Science in the Muslim world is now in a sorry state. "It's dismal," says Taner Edis, a Turkish-American physicist at Truman State University, in Missouri. "Right now, if all Muslim scientists working in basic science vanished from the face of the earth, the rest of the scientific community would barely notice."

Guessoum agrees: "It's abysmal by all kinds of measures: how many books and publications are written or translated in the Muslim world; how many patents come from Muslim inventors; how Muslim students are performing in the international arena."

Data collected by the World Bank and Unesco confirm this bleak assessment. A study of 20 member states of the Organization of the Islamic Conference found that these countries spent 0.34 percent of their gross domestic product on scientific research from 1996 to 2003, which was just one-seventh of the global average.

Those Muslim countries have fewer than 10 scientists, engineers, and technicians for every 1,000 people, compared with the world average of 40, and 140 for the developed world. And they contribute only about 1 percent of the world's published scientific papers. Another study of OIC nations found that scientists in 17 Arabic-speaking countries produced a total of 13,444 scientific publications in 2005, which was 2,000 fewer than what just Harvard University produced._

*Does Islam Stand Against Science?*

http://chronicle.com/article/Does-Islam-Stand-Against/127924/


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## Glen48 (26 June 2011)

Muslims V Christians Turns out both religions started from the same base.


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## Calliope (26 June 2011)

A philosophy in decline?:shake:  Not while they are breeding like rabbits in Western countries, where they are nurtured on welfare.


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## Nattrax (28 June 2011)

so this thread rather than being an actual discussion about the possible decline in the philosophy of Islam, is actually a thread for Islam bashing... well done people, living up to those values of tolerance and justice that you so conveniently point out do not exist in Islam... 

You all sound like a bunch of hypocrites using Islam as your outlet... what there are no other religions or groups of people who 'breed like rabbits in western society' or are 'nurtured on welfare'

It is actually shocking to hear that there are people who so readily believe the tripe thrown out in the media. A Christian Magazine says that more Christians are killed in Muslim countries than Muslims in Christian countries... wow, do you do all your research from Christian magazines... I mean come on... what about Muslims killed in Muslim countries by Christians... does the invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan ring a bell... I dont know what the statistics are, and the truth is I dont care, because death is not a numbers game, it is a problem regardless of who dies.

And just because one cleric wants an Islamic state in Australia and sharia law does not mean that the rest of Australian Islamic population want it to... but of course because one cleric said it apparently we all want it... great way to use the media again.

I am sorry for the rant, but if you want to make vague generalisations about a religion (which by the way has over 1 billion followers) then perhaps you should take some time to dig deeper than usual sensationalist rubbish that gets sprouted on 'today tonight' or 'a current affair'.

You dont have to like it, or even agree with it... understanding is enough for me.

To be fair Boggo... I did enjoy the joke and will definitely be telling that one to my mates...


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## trainspotter (30 June 2011)

Thought for the day.......... 

THE ARABS ARE NOT HAPPY

They are not happy in Gaza.
They are not happy in the West Bank.
They are not happy in Jerusalem.
They are not happy in Israel.
They are not happy in Egypt.
They are not happy in Libya.
They are not happy in Algeria.
They are not happy in Tunis.
They are not happy in Morocco.
They are not happy in Yemen.
They are not happy in Iraq.

They are not happy in Bahrain
They are not happy in Afghanistan.
They are not happy in Syria.
They are not happy in in Lebanon.
They are not happy in Sudan.
They are not happy in Jordan.

And where the Arabs are happy?

They are happy in England.
They are happy in France.
They are happy in Italy.
They are happy in Germany.
They are happy in Sweden.
They are happy in the Netherlands.
They are happy in Switzerland
They are happy in Norway.
They are happy in the U.S.
They are happy in Canada
They are happy in Australia
They are happy in any other country in the world which is not ruled by Muslims.

And whom do they blame?

Not Islam.
Not themselves.

But the very countries they are happy to live in!

I am a hypocrite and I don't care.


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## DB008 (30 June 2011)

noco said:


> Do the police have to tolerate this case of mistaken identity all becuase a muslim woman would not remove her burka. What if she had been a terrorist in disguise?
> 
> If she would not remove her burka for varification of ID as per the photo on her Dirvers license, then she should have been arrested. After all her photo would be on her drivers license by law.
> 
> http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/mo...-behind-the-veil/story-fn7x8me2-1226078801032




I like the response to the article and this one sums it up!



> Bob Smith of Geelong Posted at 10:38 AM June 21, 2011
> Lets go the way of France and ban the burka, we as Australians are tolerant, but we won't be told to change our way of living to suit a foreign religion.




If my wife and l visit a middle eastern country, l respect their laws and if she must don a "Hajib", she will out of respect of their culture/laws/religion. Do the same here please, or go home.


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## bellenuit (1 July 2011)

Nattrax said:


> so this thread rather than being an actual discussion about the possible decline in the philosophy of Islam, is actually a thread for Islam bashing... well done people, living up to those values of tolerance and justice that you so conveniently point out do not exist in Islam...
> 
> You all sound like a bunch of hypocrites using Islam as your outlet... what there are no other religions or groups of people who 'breed like rabbits in western society' or are 'nurtured on welfare'




Since you seem to be painting everyone who has contributed to this thread with the same brush, I would point you to the following article which expresses more eloquently that I ever could the view that it should be possible to discuss unsavoury and worrying aspects of Islam without being labelled Islamaphobic or racist.

And far from being blind to the faults of other religions, you may find that some of us here are equally as critical of those religions on threads pertaining to those religions.

*Islam and "Islamophobia" - a little manifesto*

http://metamagician3000.blogspot.com/2011/06/islam-and-islamophobia-little-manifesto.html


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## DB008 (10 July 2011)

But when you see this in Europe....you really must wonder?


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## trainspotter (11 July 2011)

> *ISLAMIC leaders want Muslims in Australia to get interest-free loans for religious reasons*
> 
> Imam Parker said Islam forbade the charging or paying of interest "so finding interest-free loans will again help Muslims to practise their Islam better".
> 
> "Other than the two major issues mentioned, I don't see other sharia law that Muslims would seek to have legally recognised," he said.




Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/giv...rs/story-e6frfkvr-1226092102637#ixzz0tMC56clF

I am converting to Islam to get me an interest free loan.


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## bellenuit (11 July 2011)

trainspotter said:


> I am converting to Islam to get me an interest free loan.




So called Islamic loans are "interest Free" semantically only. It doesn't mean that you would get the loan at no cost, it is just that the cost of the loan is applied through another method other than interest. For instance, it might be classed as a "service fee".

Personally I have no problem with banks offering loans to muslims who have an issue with being charged "interest" and charging the cost of borrowing by some other method acceptable to muslims, so long as there is no preferential treatment given. In fact I thought there were banks already offering Islam compliant loans.

One can only feel sorry for people who blindly follow the edicts of "their book" no matter how irrelevant it has become, but they are not the only religion whose members, or at least some of whom, are prone to such nonsense. However, we should draw the line with changing our legal system to satisfy practices that reduce our freedoms or create standards that are inappropriate to modern day life, even if the changes only apply to a particular group.


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## trainspotter (11 July 2011)

I will rent it instead of buying it and paying interest on it? Whaaaaaaaaa???



> An innovative approach applied by some banks for home loans, called Musharaka al-Mutanaqisa, allows for a floating rate in the form of rental. The bank and borrower form a partnership entity, both providing capital at an agreed percentage to purchase the property. The partnership entity then rents out the property to the borrower and charges rent. The bank and the borrower will then share the proceeds from this rent based on the current equity share of the partnership. At the same time, the borrower in the partnership entity also buys the bank's share of the property at agreed installments until the full equity is transferred to the borrower and the partnership is ended. If default occurs, both the bank and the borrower receive a proportion of the proceeds from the sale of the property based on each party's current equity. This method allows for floating rates according to the current market rate such as the BLR (base lending rate), especially in a dual-banking system like in Malaysia.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_banking

What the hell is the difference?


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## bellenuit (11 July 2011)

trainspotter said:


> I will rent it instead of buying it and paying interest on it? Whaaaaaaaaa???
> 
> 
> 
> ...




There is no difference, just wordplay.


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## trainspotter (11 July 2011)

bellenuit said:


> There is no difference, just wordplay.




So if I wanted to then technically I am renting my house from the bank? Does this make my PPOR a tax deduction? As long as I declare Allah is the only Prophet? Too easy man.


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## bellenuit (11 July 2011)

trainspotter said:


> So if I wanted to then technically I am renting my house from the bank? Does this make my PPOR a tax deduction? As long as I declare Allah is the only Prophet? Too easy man.




Actually, I have never looked at the tax implications of Islamic loans. I'm sure the ATO will will not lose out in any case. They never do.

I would also assume that if banks were to provide Islamic loans, they would have to make them available to everyone, not just muslims, otherwise that would be religious discrimination. Thus you can be sure that the ATO would not allow such loans to provide a loophole to avoid tax.


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## Garpal Gumnut (4 August 2011)

A very interesting article from the City Journal.



> Is Islam Compatible with Capitalism?
> The Middle East’s future depends on the answer.




http://www.city-journal.org/2011/21_3_muslim-economy.html

gg


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