# Hermaphrodite Humans - A legitimate gender?



## Whiskers (11 September 2009)

Well, what a dilema the sports world and political correctness for that matter faces with the revelation that South African world champion runner Caster Semenya is a hermaphrodite.

We recognise hermaphrodite plants and some other hermaphrodite animal species... why not humans?


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## Gone Fishin (12 September 2009)

Just have men woman and hermaphrodite events. Problem solved


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## So_Cynical (12 September 2009)

We recognize hermaphrodite plants and some other hermaphrodite animal species because that's how those particular plants and species work...thats how nature intended them to be.

With Humans that's not so....there caught between the 2 worlds of normality, generally as a child a gender is forced upon them...and sometimes that dont sit well with the adult individual.


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## Nyden (12 September 2009)

Alleged female organs, or not - that looks like a guy.


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## supermatt (12 September 2009)

lol that is 1 weird human. cmon at least try look like a woman, grow some hair or put on some lippy. As rove said, instead of speculating through tests just dack her or him, you will find out in 1 second what it is.


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## sam76 (12 September 2009)

surely there must be a way to recognise what the dominant gene is?

Is she more male or female?

Clearly she has come from obscurity to winning these events convincingly.

I would say if she wants to race she needs to race against men.


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## insider (12 September 2009)

Poor girl would probably want to kill herself now. She has testicles but has no womb or ovaries. Why was she publicly humiliated. She did nothing wrong. Now cant do anything in the area where she dedicated her life to. How crushing.


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## wayneL (12 September 2009)

insider said:


> Poor girl would probably want to kill herself now. She has testicles but has no womb or ovaries. Why was she publicly humiliated. She did nothing wrong. Now cant do anything in the area where she dedicated her life to. How crushing.



Is that verified? I thought it was all still heresay. Family is denying

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10596830

Also some interesting reading in the article:



> An Otago University geneticist and paediatrician said yesterday that even if the reports proved correct, it did not necessarily mean Semenya was a hermaphrodite. Professor Stephen Robertson, the head of Otago University's clinical genetics research group, said a hermaphrodite is a person with both ovarian and testicular tissues and is extremely rare.
> 
> Semenya could have an "inter-sex" condition but not be a hermaphrodite.
> 
> ...


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## springhill (12 September 2009)

supermatt said:


> As rove said, instead of speculating through tests just dack her or him, you will find out in 1 second what it is.




Ahhhhhhh Rove, 10 years of trying and you're still unable to make me laugh....


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## Garpal Gumnut (12 September 2009)

Blind Freddie would have guessed that she was a hermaphrodite.

Even her name gives her away.

Semen Ya.

gg


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## Prospector (12 September 2009)

insider said:


> Poor girl would probably want to kill herself now. She has testicles but has no womb or ovaries. Why was she publicly humiliated. She did nothing wrong. Now cant do anything in the area where she dedicated her life to. How crushing.




I agree with you totally insider.  The girl is an 18 year old person who has been under intense public scrunity and exposure.  I am so sorry for her.  If indeed she has testes still in her abdomen she needs immediate surgery to remove them.  I suspect that when she was born, she had undeveloped genitalia, and with the absence of visible testes, it was decided that she be raised as a female.  It is a difficult issue for all when a child with undefined gender is born.  Obviously her family have raised her with the identity of a female, but with undeniable male characteristics that remained hidden until now.  And I suspect no thought given to undescended testes.  The family would be in shock.


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## Julia (12 September 2009)

insider said:


> Poor girl would probably want to kill herself now. She has testicles but has no womb or ovaries. Why was she publicly humiliated. She did nothing wrong. Now cant do anything in the area where she dedicated her life to. How crushing.



I agree with you and Prospector, Insider.  Just can't imagine what she/he must be going through.   It would be a traumatic enough situation for any young person, so to be humiliated so very publicly including no doubt more of the attempts to be funny about it that have already appeared on this thread would be soul destroying.


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## Mr J (12 September 2009)

supermatt said:


> lol that is 1 weird human. cmon at least try look like a woman, grow some hair or put on some lippy. As rove said, instead of speculating through tests just dack her or him, you will find out in 1 second what it is.




You watch Rove, nothing else needs to be said.



			
				Julia said:
			
		

> so to be humiliated so very publicly including no doubt more of the attempts to be funny about it that have already appeared on this thread would be soul destroying.




The media is ruthless, and many of the masses are just morons. A good example of how immature and petty society is, focusing on this rather than the girl's performance.


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## awg (12 September 2009)

Intersex complications are much more common than most people realise.

If you research on the Internet, you will see.

In approximately 1 in 1000 cases, newborn babies they are unsure what sex the baby is, many others have genital malformation

They used to make a decision, and do surgery, now they tend to wait.

There are 4 distinct types of intersex in humans, plus sub-types.

this includes fertile as man or woman, fertile as one or the other, and infertile.

There is an island near Africa, where it is common for "girls" to change sex at puberty, the frequency is due to genetic inbreeding. 

I used to work with a woman who I think had this condition, as she shaved and had very large muscular development, and other male features, but identified very much feminine.

What a headache to try and sort out


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## gav (12 September 2009)

supermatt said:


> lol that is 1 weird human. cmon at least try look like a woman, grow some hair or put on some lippy. As rove said, instead of speculating through tests just dack her or him, you will find out in 1 second what it is.




Maybe we should do the same to Rove.  I always suspected Rove was a little girl...

There are much more masculine women on our planet than Semenya, without the internal testies.


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## Happy (12 September 2009)

Gone Fishin said:


> Just have men woman and hermaphrodite events. Problem solved




+1

On the other hand, since recently women demand to be included in front line infantry, why not have just *human events*.

If for some reason, women and hermaphrodites get minor or remote places, maybe women would accept that there are physical differences and some individuals will never be able to achieve comparable outcomes.


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## Garpal Gumnut (12 September 2009)

Julia said:


> I agree with you and Prospector, Insider.  Just can't imagine what she/he must be going through.   It would be a traumatic enough situation for any young person, so to be humiliated so very publicly including no doubt more of the attempts to be funny about it that have already appeared on this thread would be soul destroying.




I agree Julia and apologies for my juvenile comment.

She must be going through hell.

However it is unfair for xx women to have to compete against people with hermaphrodite features, the excess testosterone gives the latter an unfair advantage. 

And to be fair the evidence on this person is not yet out, officially yet.

gg

gg


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## Prospector (13 September 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> However it is unfair for xx women to have to compete against people with hermaphrodite features, the excess testosterone gives the latter an unfair advantage.
> 
> gg



Assuming the media releases are correct:
But if she has the testes removed (which will happen) her testosterone levels will fall dramatically.  As she has no ovaries/uterus, she is probably not producing many if any female hormones either.  So many health implications for her.


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## supermatt (13 September 2009)

*thinks there are way to many serious people on this forum*
maybe I should just stick to joke threads or something 

even female bodybuilders look "more female" than him her or "that person"

well no doubt that person will get medical guidance and sort "its" self out with some kind of treatment. 

ta


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## Garpal Gumnut (13 September 2009)

Prospector said:


> Assuming the media releases are correct:
> But if she has the testes removed (which will happen) her testosterone levels will fall dramatically.  As she has no ovaries/uterus, she is probably not producing many if any female hormones either.  So many health implications for her.




I'm no expert on females, I'm on the fourth Mrs Gumnut. 

But from what I've read in New Scientist and other socialist science publications it is not as simple as you describe Pros.

I think everyone starts off the same and then it depends on genes, the brain and the ovaries or testicles and the liver and lots of other bits and pieces.

I don't understand it all.

But I can recognise a goyle.

And she ain't no goyle.

Still doesn't mean she doesn't deserve respect and understanding.

gg


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## Prospector (13 September 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I'm no expert on females, I'm on the fourth Mrs Gumnut.




You are a legend GG! :

Yes, you are right, it is a little more complicated than that, but the basic issue is that the ovaries produce most of the estrogen and progesterone (but not all) and the testes produce most (but not all) of the testosterone.  

But women produce testosterone and men produce progesterone, as everyone produces the 'master' hormone, but this is not enough to define what we think of as 'male' and 'female' characteristics.  Women who produce the 'right amount' of testosterone for women have good health, but do not go on to develop deep voices or other male characteristics.  And men who produce the 'right amount' of progesterone are also healthy but do not go on to develop female characteristics.

Clear now?


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## Garpal Gumnut (13 September 2009)

Prospector said:


> You are a legend GG! :
> 
> Yes, you are right, it is a little more complicated than that, but the basic issue is that the ovaries produce most of the estrogen and progesterone (but not all) and the testes produce most (but not all) of the testosterone.
> 
> ...




Thanks mate, it is a bit clearer.

Aren't women complicated.

gg


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## Happy (13 September 2009)

Prospector said:


> You are a legend GG! :
> 
> Yes, you are right, it is a little more complicated than that, but the basic issue is that the ovaries produce most of the estrogen and progesterone (but not all) and the testes produce most (but not all) of the testosterone.
> 
> ...






This person should not be allowed to compete.

Excessive hormone level could be treated as doping.

Either way, complicated or not if in doubt, make just one competition level as I said before and no matter who person is, best will win (probably super pure male)


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