# Protecting Assets Without a Pre-Nup?



## Spanning Tree (18 August 2008)

Hi, suppose I feel bad asking a woman for a pre-nup. I have thought of a way of protecting my assets without worry about a pre-nup. Firstly, I transfer all my assets to a family member, e.g. my mom, and then then apply to be a Power of Attorney for her assets so that I control her assets (which are really my assets). If there is a divorce then because my assets are under my mom's name, then everything is safe. 

Would this work or not?


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## cuttlefish (18 August 2008)

Don't assume you won't have a falling out with a family member at some stage down the track, no matter how airtight you think your relationship with your mother/father/sister/brother is - there is a long life ahead and many things can ebb and flow and even change dramatically along the way.


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## disarray (18 August 2008)

setup a trust that you control and name family members or something beneficiaries.


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## wildkactus (18 August 2008)

Look into setting up a foundation to own your assets. (you can have a foundation as a for profit organisation) They are becoming a popular vehicle for asset protection. 

But you really need to run this by a good lawyer that specializes in this field.


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## white_goodman (18 August 2008)

she cant take your money if shes dead, just sayin...

i guess the trick is not marrying a money hungry gold digging *****, or the family trust option sounds good


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## Paladin (18 August 2008)

Personally I should think that a formal agreement is far and away the easiest option. It seems more honest than going to all these lengths, and honesty is important between lovers, no? My partner and I signed a BFA recently to protect our assets both ways should things go amiss, and we're still putting candles on the table at dinner. It was no big deal at all, to be honest.

The tax department and the law are both well and truly onto the idea of 'gifting' assets in order to shelter them. Plus it's fraught. What if Mum remarries? You might not be the only one getting lucky. How does she then protect your assets - transfer them up the line to Gran? And how do we know Gran isn't massaging chocolate body butter into the wrinkly folds of some septuagenarian latino love muffin right now? I know I'm being silly, but Cuttlefish, as usual, is bang on. 

By contrast, a Binding Financial Agreement ('prenups' are pretty useless, but BFAs - which can be taken out at any time - are not) between you and your darling is pretty darn simple and watertight. You never know - she might need to protect her hidden trillions from YOU.


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## Julia (18 August 2008)

I agree with Cuttlefish and Paladin.   However well you might get on with your mother, it is invariably unwise to make this sort of intra-family arrangement.  You simply can't know what could happen in the future.

Good to know you are thinking about protecting your assets.  It's simply sensible.  

Gorgeous to be all in love and full of trust.  But, sadly, it can go sour for any number of reasons.   I wish I'd had a BFA before marrying!


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## Sean K (19 August 2008)

It might be sensible to be trying to protect your assets, and I guess this is driven because you and your partner are not on an equal asset footing.

However, my first thought was that if you think you need a pre-nup you're not really in love and you should move on....eeeek!

Maybe watch Intolerable Cruelty with George and Catherine for some ideas.


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## dutchie (19 August 2008)

G'day Spanning Tree

Best move you will ever make - protecting your assets.

Love is fantastic - but people change and therefore the high ratio of divorce.

Statistically more men would have a bad/sour relationship with their wives than their mothers.

So yes transfer it to your mother.

(PS To all men - do something before its too late!!)

Cheers

dutchie


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## Tysonboss1 (19 August 2008)

It all comes down to how you sell the idea to her,... The best way to sell it is to explain that if the worst happens and you have to break up you want to have a plan that you both aggree to, to help you divide the assets. Explain to her that it's not about about stopping her getting anything but more about having a plan to work to through what can be one of the most emotionally draining parts of your life, and explain to her that you think it will stop unessary fighting and help them to leave the relationship on better terms, hopefully still friends.

With a pre nup you have to build a win win aggreement that fairly divides the assets.


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## pepperoni (19 August 2008)

Id be up front about it although I know many that hide assets.

You can sign a "cohabitation agreement" before you live together.  Its easy for both sides to understand at that stage.  If marriage ever comes up you can sign a pre nup with identical terms.  If not you can just cohabit under the cohabitation agreement.

Plus if its a simple "what we came in with we take out but what we jointly make is 50/50" I dont see a big prob.  If its "we will keep everything separate forever and you dont get a cent on divorce" its another issue.  I also dont think it good to go into who gets what access to kids as the law is good in this area.  

If you have kids you are going to have to pay maintenance like everyone else though.  And when you die the family provision act makes sure any kids are provided for.

But if you have many millions and you partner has $10,000 (I see this alot) the law doesnt seem to be able to fairly distibute assets so how can you not sign one?

And its a good way to manage expectations too ... some people think they can be married for 2 years and take half ha ha ... but with no kids they wont get anything anyway.


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## nomore4s (19 August 2008)

Spanning Tree said:


> Hi, suppose I feel bad asking a woman for a pre-nup. I have thought of a way of protecting my assets without worry about a pre-nup. Firstly, I transfer all my assets to a family member, e.g. my mom, and then then apply to be a Power of Attorney for her assets so that I control her assets (which are really my assets). If there is a divorce then because my assets are under my mom's name, then everything is safe.
> 
> Would this work or not?




Wouldn't it just be easier to get her to sign a pre-nup?

Alot of work and expense(?) setting up a trust or whatever, and by doing so is probably not a good way to establish trust in the relationship especially if she ever finds out that you've done this behind her back.

Also a pre-nup can help put in place an agreement to split assets that are built up during the relationship, solving alot of other hassles.

If you have trouble talking to her about something like a pre-nup, my personal opinion is that you will run into trouble with the relationship sooner or later. Being upfront and honest is the best bet, if she has trouble with a pre-nup it will tell you alot.



white_goodman said:


> i guess the trick is not marrying a money hungry gold digging *****, or the family trust option sounds good




lol, you obviously haven't been through a break up of a long term relationship where there is assets & emotion involved. People react strangely during an emotional break up and no matter what they are like before the break up can get very vindictive and petty.


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## Paladin (19 August 2008)

kennas said:


> However, my first thought was that if you think you need a pre-nup you're not really in love and you should move on....eeeek!




Kennas - whoda thunk you were such a romantic? It must be the air in Lima 

Actually, I really disagree with this. I'm 100% sure that my partner is 'the one' and she feels the same. That said, it's only sensible to come to an arrangement that protects each other's assets brought in to the relationship (even if in your heart of hearts you consider them shared) should something untoward happen. Much better to do so when you *are* in love and wanting to be fair and generous rather then, gods forbid, after the goodwill has gone. 

Oh and Tree - this isn't a judgement at all, just a reflection, but personally I'd feel more morally conflicted about hiding assets than just being honest.

With the range of options available obviously formal legal advice is called for.


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## slackjaw (19 August 2008)

Why would you want to spend the rest of your life with someone you dont trust? You can agree on an outcome but i think making legally binding arrangements cheapens the marriage, like you expect its going to end. Bottom line IMO is just marry the right girl, and then don't spend a thought on whether she would try to screw ya financially. That kind of thinking probably would cause it to end. Going around hiding assets or sneakily limiting her access to them... sounds like a paper thin marriage to me, sorry


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## Sean K (19 August 2008)

Paladin said:


> Kennas - whoda thunk you were such a romantic? It must be the air in Lima
> 
> Actually, I really disagree with this. I'm 100% sure that my partner is 'the one' and she feels the same. That said, it's only sensible to come to an arrangement that protects each other's assets brought in to the relationship (even if in your heart of hearts you consider them shared) should something untoward happen. Much better to do so when you *are* in love and wanting to be fair and generous rather then, gods forbid, after the goodwill has gone.



 My logic agrees with your disagreement. 

More than you know. 

Perhaps the reason why it has worked for me and the much much better half is that we are were on a level playing ground when we met. It took the $$'s out of the equation.


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## SM Junkie (19 August 2008)

> just marry the right girl




Don't we all hope we get it right when we do marry, unfortunately we do live in a disposable society and marriages can also become disposable when it all gets to hard.  

Times have changed and where previous generations probably started marriage with little or no assets, this is not the case today, so therefore it is important to protect what you own and bring into the relationship. 

I don't think it cheapens the marriage at all to have arrangements in place should separation occur.  Most of us know our legal rights and will exercise these if we divorce, so why not both outline your expectations from the start.  If she strongly opposes it then I guess it is a predecessor to what may happens should the relationship not work.

Personally I use a family trust and both my partner and I agreed from the start that we would provide a property for each other to live in and that all other assets will remain in trust for our children. It cost us under $500 to set up, but any legal arrangement will incur a fee.

It's great to see you thinking ahead because separation is never nice on either party and the more assets you have the nastier things seem to get.


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## slackjaw (19 August 2008)

SM Junkie said:


> marriages can also become disposable when it all gets to hard.




True they can, marriage isn't respected enough these days. I suppose it depends if you want a disposable Hollywood style marriage or if you really intend to give it all you've got.


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## white_goodman (19 August 2008)

nomore4s said:


> lol, you obviously haven't been through a break up of a long term relationship where there is assets & emotion involved. People react strangely during an emotional break up and no matter what they are like before the break up can get very vindictive and petty.




im 20 years old, ive done the long term thing but im about as faithful as an aethiest during lent....

seen and heard too many bad stories to get married for atleast another 12 years


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## Sean K (19 August 2008)

white_goodman said:


> im 20 years old, ive done the long term thing





Call me Grandpa....

eeeek!!


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## white_goodman (19 August 2008)

kennas said:


> Call me Grandpa....
> 
> eeeek!!




hey pop


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## pepperoni (19 August 2008)

SM Junkie said:


> Personally I use a family trust and both my partner and I agreed from the start that we would provide a property for each other to live in and that all other assets will remain in trust for our children. It cost us under $500 to set up, but any legal arrangement will incur a fee.




Very sensible.

For those that say "oh I trust my partner" ... thats great until they leave with your 2 kids, and squander or get conned out of the money leaving all of you AND your kids with nothing ... very naive and short sighted to go without, esp if one of the parties has significant $$$ and wants to ensure any kids are looked after.

If you have nothing or very little then yes why bother with a pre nup ... its a bit different if one partner has many millions.  

At worst it manages expectation and protects the marriage.


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## gav (19 August 2008)

slackjaw said:


> Why would you want to spend the rest of your life with someone you dont trust? You can agree on an outcome but i think making legally binding arrangements cheapens the marriage, like you expect its going to end. Bottom line IMO is just marry the right girl, and then don't spend a thought on whether she would try to screw ya financially. That kind of thinking probably would cause it to end. Going around hiding assets or sneakily limiting her access to them... sounds like a paper thin marriage to me, sorry





I agree 100%


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## grace (19 August 2008)

white_goodman said:


> im 20 years old, ive done the long term thing but im about as faithful as an aethiest during lent....




What time frame is a short term relationship then?  Just in and out?


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## white_goodman (19 August 2008)

Supposedly, a woman posted the following personal ad on Craigslist: 

What am I doing wrong?
Okay, I’m tired of beating around the bush. I’m a beautiful (spectacularly beautiful) 25-year-old girl. I’m articulate and classy. I’m not from New York. I’m looking to get married to a guy who makes at least [a] half a million a year. I know how that sounds, but keep in mind that a million a year is middle class in New York City, so I don’t think I’m overreaching at all.
Are there any guys who make 500K or more on this board? Any wives? Could you send me some tips? I dated a businessman who makes average around 200 - 250K. But that’s where I seem to hit a roadblock. 250,000K won’t get me to Central Park West. I know a woman in my yoga class who was married to an investment banker and lives in Tribeca, and she’s not as pretty as I am, nor is she a great genius. So what is she doing right? How do I get to her level?
Here are my questions specifically:
- Where do you single rich men hang out? Give me specifics- bars, restaurants, gyms.
- What are you looking for in a mate? Be honest guys, you won’t hurt my feelings.
- Is there an age range I should be targeting (I’m 25)?
- Why are some of the women living lavish lifestyles on the Upper East Side so plain? I’ve seen really “plain Jane” boring types who have nothing to offer married to incredibly wealthy guys. I’ve seen drop dead gorgeous girls in singles bars in the East Village. What’s the story there?
- Jobs I should look out for? Everyone knows — lawyer, investment banker, doctor. How much do those guys really make? And where do they hang out? Where do the hedge fund guys hang out?
- How you decide marriage vs. just a girlfriend? I am looking for MARRIAGE ONLY.
Please hold your insults — I’m putting myself out there in an honest way. Most beautiful women are superficial; at least I’m being up front about it. I wouldn’t be searching for these kind of guys if I wasn’t able to match them — in looks, culture, sophistication, and keeping a nice home and hearth.


The response she got was as follows:
Dear Pers-431649184:

I read your posting with great interest and have thought meaningfully about your dilemma. I offer the following analysis of your predicament. Firstly, I’m not wasting your time, I qualify as a guy who fits your bill; that is I make more than $500K per year. That said, here’s how I see it:
Your offer, from the prospective of a guy like me, is plain and simple a crappy business deal. Here’s why. Cutting through all the B.S., what you suggest is a simple trade: you bring your looks to the party, and I bring my money. Fine, simple. But here’s the rub — your looks will fade and my money will likely continue into perpetuity … in fact, it is very likely that my income increases but it is an absolute certainty that you won’t be getting any more beautiful!
So, in economic terms, you are a depreciating asset and I am an earning asset. Not only are you a depreciating asset, your depreciation accelerates! Let me explain: you’re 25 now and will likely stay pretty hot for the next 5 years, but less so each year. Then the fade begins in earnest. By 35, stick a fork in you!
So in Wall Street terms, we would call you a trading position, not a buy and hold … hence the rub … marriage. It doesn’t make good business sense to “buy you” (which is what you’re asking) so I’d rather lease. In case you think I’m being cruel, I would say the following: if my money were to go away, so would you, so when your beauty fades I need an out. It’s as simple as that. So a deal that makes sense is dating, not marriage.
Separately, I was taught early in my career about efficient markets. So, I wonder why a girl as “articulate, classy and spectacularly beautiful” as you has been unable to find your sugar daddy. I find it hard to believe, if you are as gorgeous as you say you are, that the $500K hasn’t found you, if not only for a tryout. By the way, you could always find a way to make your own money and then we wouldn’t need to have this difficult conversation.
With all that said, I must say you’re going about it the right way. Classic “pump and dump.” I hope this is helpful, and if you want to enter into some sort of lease, let me know.


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## white_goodman (19 August 2008)

grace said:


> What time frame is a short term relationship then?  Just in and out?




anything under 3 months... i had one for 1 year and 364 days that was pretty long


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## slackjaw (19 August 2008)

lol a great response. This ones a leech, but fortunately one you can spot a mile away. If one did marry her, sure its a pretty crappy business deal, but a deals a deal, so hand over the green.


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## nomore4s (19 August 2008)

white_goodman said:


> im 20 years old, ive done the long term thing




rotflmao

No offence but in about 10 years or so you will look back on this comment and realise how silly this sounds to some of the older members on this site.

What I actually meant in regards to a long term relationship was a live in or marriage type relationship with assets that had been aquired before & during that relationship and how hard it becomes to split those assets during a messy break up as both parties tend to become rather stubborn, vindictive and petty about even the most simple of things.

Having a plan (pre-nup) on how you will both deal with the break up if it happens is a good idea imo.


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## Julia (19 August 2008)

Just coming back to the original question of possibly transferring assets to the mother, another reason not to do this is that you simply cannot know what medical conditions might occur in an older family member as the years pass.

Sure, you might have a great relationship with mum now, but what if she were to develop Alzheimers and begin to view you as some evil person out to get her.  It happens more often than you'd imagine.

And as far as those who have suggested if you really love the girl then you wouldn't be considering any formal agreement, I'd say, just get real!

I've never known anyone who didn't get married or enter into a formal living together relationship without feeling sure it was the love of their life.
But once the flush of hormones and the general novelty has worn off, and maybe job pressures take one or both partners' attention off the romance, then a lot can change quite quickly.  Why else would we have one in three marriages ending in divorce?

I'd suggest that it's a measure of the maturity of a couple that they can face up to the reality of each of them protecting their assets.  It's a bit like a Will or an Advance Health Directive:  not much fun to think about, but once it's done then you can forget about it and get on with enjoying life, but if it's not done it will be an endless niggle at the back of your mind, possibly even preventing full participation in the relationship to he detriment of both.


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## banjosmyth (20 August 2008)

haha

make sure you watch the film

Intolerable Cruelty - with Catherine Zeta Jones & George Clooney

Good luck with everything, Who knows maybe she has some secret inheritance and is actually richer than you!  No pre-nup could be a good idea 

Cheers 

Banjo


We want Pre-nup
We want Pre-nup 
Yeah


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## korrupt_1 (20 August 2008)

white_goodman said:


> Supposedly, a woman posted the following personal ad on Craigslist:




ROFL!!! classic... love it... should have been posted on the ASF Joke Thread!!


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## mobcat (20 August 2008)

white_goodman said:


> Supposedly, a woman posted the following personal ad on Craigslist:
> 
> What am I doing wrong?
> Okay, I’m tired of beating around the bush. I’m a beautiful (spectacularly beautiful) 25-year-old girl. I’m articulate and classy. I’m not from New York. I’m looking to get married to a guy who makes at least [a] half a million a year. I know how that sounds, but keep in mind that a million a year is middle class in New York City, so I don’t think I’m overreaching at all.
> ...





WOW. I know. This chick must have fallen out of the shallow bitch tree and hit every branch on the way down. I started to write a post talking about how shallow some women are. (And yes I know that there are shallow guys too.) But before I could bust out a Kansas-Nebraska-esque ass whuppin I noticed that someone else had beat me to it. Not only did this guy lay the smack down on this chick, but he did it using a Greg Mankiw microeconomics book:


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## Spanning Tree (21 September 2008)

> Supposedly, a woman posted the following personal ad on Craigslist:
> 
> What am I doing wrong?
> Okay, I’m tired of beating around the bush. I’m a beautiful (spectacularly beautiful) 25-year-old girl. I’m articulate and classy. I’m not from New York. I’m looking to get married to a guy who makes at least [a] half a million a year. I know how that sounds, but keep in mind that a million a year is middle class in New York City, so I don’t think I’m overreaching at all.
> ...



Interesting story. It's easy to say, "Stay away from these women." However, this women is obviously not going to go up to a man and say, "I am a gold-digger. Give me your money." She is going to be more deceptive than that. How can you be certain that the woman you love is not really deceiving you? This is clearly an adverse selection problem. Someone needs to come up with gold-digger insurance. You pay a premium to the insurance provider and if you do happen to get a divorce, get the insurance firm to fund it.

Update: There is such thing as divorce insurance.


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## Glen48 (21 September 2008)

If a Doctor told you there was a 60% chance the Op would fail and a 80% you would get an infection what would you say.. they are the odds of a marriage working. I was married for 19 yr built a new home on the beach and 3 mths later she met a bloke who beat her up so she took of with him I could have done that but i didn't know she liked it. we lost about 2 M between us now both on the bones of our ass hence selling my house to get funds to try trading.
Marriages can fail in their 80's
Me I would open an account TELL NO ONE TELL NO  ONE you have it.. pump as much as you can in to it and hope for thew best. if the marriage works when you retire you have a nest egg. don't have kids as CSA will take 18% plus of your income.
Its called pussy power the one with the pussy has the power. look at how many women get out of court cases over murder. Pre nups don't stand up in th Family court.


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## Boggo (21 September 2008)

Thats excellent whitey.g

Always remember, if it f****, floats or flies its cheaper to rent it.


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## MrBurns (21 September 2008)

Boggo said:


> Thats excellent whitey.g
> Always remember, if it f****, floats or flies its cheaper to rent it.




Ahmen..........

Get a pre nup or place your assets in a Trust. 

Speak to your Lawyer, it's the only way.


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## nunthewiser (21 September 2008)

Marry someone with more wealth and let them worry about it ?


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## Spanning Tree (21 September 2008)

All this talk about keeping money safe from gold-digging females makes me depressed. I would like to believe that there are females out there who value men for who they are rather than how fat their wallets are. 

Is it naive for me to still cling to this romantic notion or should I just resign myself to the cynical idea that marriage is just another form of prostitution? 

For any older, experienced men, give some advice to a young person like me.



Glen48 said:


> If a Doctor told you there was a 60% chance the Op would fail and a 80% you would get an infection what would you say.. they are the odds of a marriage working. I was married for 19 yr built a new home on the beach and 3 mths later she met a bloke who beat her up so she took of with him I could have done that but i didn't know she liked it. we lost about 2 M between us now both on the bones of our ass hence selling my house to get funds to try trading.
> Marriages can fail in their 80's
> Me I would open an account TELL NO ONE TELL NO  ONE you have it.. pump as much as you can in to it and hope for thew best. if the marriage works when you retire you have a nest egg. don't have kids as CSA will take 18% plus of your income.
> Its called pussy power the one with the pussy has the power. look at how many women get out of court cases over murder. Pre nups don't stand up in th Family court.



Did I read that right? She wanted to be beaten up?


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## Glen48 (21 September 2008)

Yer she loved the man so much he would lock her in cupboard and go hunting on a Saturday night in case the relationship fell over he was insanely jealous.
My ex like her Father was so mean with money she would tear up rags to save money on Tampons... so mean we lost about 2 M sold the beach house for 290 and it sold a few months ago for $800K.
Check out their parents and look for any signs even the things you think are funny could be a OCD her Father was mean he put in new carpet and would wait for the son to bring his Vacuum clean around sad part is my kids have got it as well just like some medical condition.
E mail and I will send you a test from Kings college which may help... but it won't show mood swings this is the biggest decision of you life bar none and it could cost you your life.
Hard as it is any sign walk away qnd keep looking its a real lucky dip and when they go they cost you 20-30 + years of savings and work.
Out of 5 kids (last one she decide to have a kid and not tell me ) only 1 talks to me the rest have NO emotions at all.
If they havent got a sense of Humour is a bad sign


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## MrBurns (21 September 2008)

Glen48 said:


> Yer she loved the man so much he would lock her in cupboard and go hunting on a Saturday night in case the relationship fell over he was insanely jealous.
> My ex like her Father was so mean with money she would tear up rags to save money on Tampons... so mean we lost about 2 M sold the beach house for 290 and it sold a few months ago for $800K.
> Check out their parents and look for any signs even the things you think are funny could be a OCD her Father was mean he put in new carpet and would wait for the son to bring his Vacuum clean around sad part is my kids have got it as well just like some medical condition.
> E mail and I will send you a test from Kings college which may help... but it won't show mood swings this is the biggest decision of you life bar none and it could cost you your life.
> ...




Gee so I'm not the only one to suffer at the hands of an OCD sufferer, I wont go into detail but it was hell right up to the point she cheated on me, I'm out of it now but it has effected my whole life. Kids are ok thank goodness.

Yes think with your head not your c**k, it is the biggest decision you'll ever make I wish you well, put your assets in a Trust, see a lawyer.


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## pepperoni (21 September 2008)

MrBurns said:


> Gee so I'm not the only one to suffer at the hands of an OCD sufferer, I wont go into detail but it was hell right up to the point she cheated on me, I'm out of it now but it has effected my whole life. Kids are ok thank goodness.
> 
> Yes think with your head not your c**k, it is the biggest decision you'll ever make I wish you well, put your assets in a Trust, see a lawyer.




Trusts dont work and have tax implications (eg PPOR in trust pays CGT).

Get a pre nup like I said.  Start early with a cohabitation agreement if you decide to move in together.

$200 each for solicitors certificates and thats it.

AND ITS NOT ABOUT GOLD DIGGERS ... she will take her generous legal entitlement as she should if she leaves.  But the law really is an ass in this area ...  With a prenup you can make sure what you each take is fair.


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## nioka (21 September 2008)

It is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.


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## moXJO (21 September 2008)

nioka said:


> It is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.




They never met bi-polar


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## pepperoni (21 September 2008)

moXJO said:


> They never met bi-polar




Or ms serotonin deficient.

Its always better not to love and lose .. unless your are in it for the free sex


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## Julia (21 September 2008)

Spanning Tree said:


> All this talk about keeping money safe from gold-digging females makes me depressed. I would like to believe that there are females out there who value men for who they are rather than how fat their wallets are.
> 
> Is it naive for me to still cling to this romantic notion or should I just resign myself to the cynical idea that marriage is just another form of prostitution?



Well, Spanning Tree, maybe you need to look for a woman who is wealthier than you, has a more successful career, and is sufficiently OK with herself not to be interested in fleecing the assets of a bloke.

It's a really jaundiced view to believe that women are out simply to use men.  If this is your experience, then you're moving in the wrong circles.

And if you really believe that marriage or any committed relationship is just another form of prostitution, then best to avoid any such commitment and pay for the plain and simple form of prostitution.  Then you'll have no worries about the ulterior motives of women.


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## Wysiwyg (21 September 2008)

> I would like to believe that there are females out there who value men for who they are rather than how fat their wallets are.




Yeah they`re out there.There isn`t enough fat wallets to go around.


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## Spanning Tree (22 September 2008)

As unmanly as it sounds, I really do want to love a girl. But I have heard so many horror stories (both here and on from friends), and I wonder whether gold-digging happens because some women are just psychotic or whether this instinct to use men as income-producing assets is something inherent in all women, with some women disguising it better than others. That the latter could be true is what depresses me.


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## Mooose (22 September 2008)

I am totally against pre-nups given my wife had a truck more money than i did :-D


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## mayk (22 September 2008)

It will be interesting to note the statistics of age difference for pre-nup agreements (if someone has any info please post away). I mean most guys in there 45-60 will only get a 20-30 delight only if they are rich. 

If both are starting young 20-30 and working, then I don't think the need to have a pre-nup will arise.

Lastly, if a woman is a housewife and does not work, then I think it only makes sense that the assets are divided 50/50 otherwise she will get the short end of the stick. She won't be able to find a job in her middle age. 

Marriage is just like an expensive tax, where the payment is made at divorce.


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## MrBurns (22 September 2008)

Spanning Tree said:


> As unmanly as it sounds, I really do want to love a girl. But I have heard so many horror stories (both here and on from friends), and I wonder whether gold-digging happens because some women are just psychotic or whether this instinct to use men as income-producing assets is something inherent in all women, with some women disguising it better than others. That the latter could be true is what depresses me.




There's no need to be so cynical/wary at your age (I presume you're young in 20's or so) 

Leave the bitterness for those who have had bad marriage experiences there are plenty of couples out there as happy as you'd ever hope to be.

Just be sensible and dont let your heart completely rule your head and make sure you go with *someone who loves you* not someone you're infatuated with who doesn't show the same depth of feelings.

If it's not there from day one it never will be.


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## nioka (22 September 2008)

Spanning Tree said:


> As unmanly as it sounds, I really do want to love a girl.





If that is REALLY the case you would be prepared to give her all you have now without question. That is the measure of true love.


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## MrBurns (22 September 2008)

nioka said:


> If that is REALLY the case you would be prepared to give her all you have now without question. That is the measure of true love.




That's more a case of "love is blind" 
If she loved him she wouldn't want his money.

She has to be your friend, you know with mates how they act toward you ?
How they accept you for what you are ? what you really are - farts and all ?

Don't fall for this crap about "she's a woman it's different" IT ISN'T

I wish someone had drummed this into me decades ago.


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## Paladin (23 September 2008)

Spanning Tree said:


> As unmanly as it sounds, I really do want to love a girl. But I have heard so many horror stories (both here and on from friends), and I wonder whether gold-digging happens because some women are just psychotic or whether this instinct to use men as income-producing assets is something inherent in all women, with some women disguising it better than others. That the latter could be true is what depresses me.




You've heard a lot of horror stories, but you haven't heard any good ones? Really?? Not to have a go, but what intrigues me is that it seems to be the horror stories you're listening to. People's filters are always interesting. 

There are plenty of apathetic worthless guys out there too. And then there are guys who make sweeping generalisations about women, and women who make sweeping generalisations about men. . .

When it comes to relationships, like often attracts like. Work on making yourself balanced, kind, fair, self-aware and wise and expect the same from a partner.

"The latter" absolutely is not true. I've always been comparatively comfortable (if not rich) and can honestly never say I've dated a gold digger. I prefer to date strong, accomplished women. Nothing sexier.

PS: What's 'unmanly' about wanting to be in love?? Geez. I wonder if you have problems asking for directions too


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