# Joe Hockey for PM



## Timmy (30 November 2009)

Who is Joe Hockey?
What does he stand for?
Seems like a nice enough chap, is he up to leading the Opposition against the Rudd government?


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## Putty7 (30 November 2009)

Seems like a nice enough guy as far as pollies go Timmy, not sure if he's up to the main job, then again can't be any worse than Turnball.


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## explod (30 November 2009)

Timmy said:


> Who is Joe Hockey?
> What does he stand for?
> Seems like a nice enough chap, is he up to leading the Opposition against the Rudd government?





Negativity is what has been retarding Liberal opportunities.  Hockey gives the appearance from the bit I can observe of being objective and optimistic.  The Liberals sufffering the same fate in Victoria.  Whether they like it or not continual crticism of the opposition on every point, when most think the Government are doing a fairly good job (wheather we like that or not) becomes dross and a pain.

He looks the best at this stage.  Never a Liberal myself, but if they were to be more constructive it will help everyone, good oppositions are neeed as in the great phrase of Don Chip "to keep the bar...ards honest".  Don Chip was not a negative, allways optimistic and much admired by all.


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## Beej (30 November 2009)

Timmy said:


> Who is Joe Hockey?
> What does he stand for?
> Seems like a nice enough chap, is he up to leading the Opposition against the Rudd government?






Well we know he believes anthropogenic climate change is occurring, and he also believes Australia should introduce a cap and trade based ETS. However, if elected leader he will have to instantly betray these beliefs and policy position. 

So like every other politician he will drop what he actually believes in a heartbeat in order to pursue the ultimate goal - power for powers sake. At least under these circumstances the electorate will know his true colours from day 1 if he becomes Lib leader!

Cheers,

Beej


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## Calliope (30 November 2009)

I doubt that Joe Hockey will be able to match Tony Abbot in the _cojones_ department.

http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2009/11/30/1225805/212259-tony-abbott-091130.jpg


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## Timmy (30 November 2009)

Calliope said:


> I doubt that Joe Hockey will be able to match Tony Abbot in the _cojones_ department.
> 
> http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2009/11/30/1225805/212259-tony-abbott-091130.jpg




LOL!

_Please _don't post a pic of Joe in in similar attire ....


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## doogie_goes_off (30 November 2009)

Big Joe can only be described by one phrase "No Balls". Abbot would make him look second rate and is a genuine conservative alternative albeit I can't abide him.


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## moXJO (30 November 2009)

Beej said:


> Well we know he believes anthropogenic climate change is occurring, and he also believes Australia should introduce a cap and trade based ETS. However, if elected leader he will have to instantly betray these beliefs and policy position.
> 
> So like every other politician he will drop what he actually believes in a heartbeat in order to pursue the ultimate goal - power for powers sake. At least under these circumstances the electorate will know his true colours from day 1 if he becomes Lib leader!
> 
> ...





I didn't know that Rudd’s ets was the 'Be all, and end all' of trading schemes. The libs are allowed to want their own platform (despite the deniers, they did campaign on an ets during the last election). You can believe in anthropogenic climate change, but not be in favor of Rudd’s ets. 
I think the current emphasis is on waiting until after Copenhagen, before we shoot business economy into the unknown.


On a side note, I don't think Joe has what it takes.


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## sam76 (30 November 2009)

I used to enjoy watching the Hockey v's Rudd stoushes on Sunrise many years ago...

he would be a formiddable opponent


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## Julia (30 November 2009)

Timmy said:


> is he up to leading the Opposition against the Rudd government?




No.


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## nomore4s (30 November 2009)

Julia said:


> No.




Problem is they don't really have many other options


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## Julia (30 November 2009)

nomore4s said:


> Problem is they don't really have many other options



That's quite true.  Doesn't alter the fact that Rudd & Co will make mincemeat of Joe Hockey in about a minute.


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## Putty7 (30 November 2009)

Julia said:


> That's quite true.  Doesn't alter the fact that Rudd & Co will make mincemeat of Joe Hockey in about a minute.




Think you are right Julia, I quite like Joe Hockeys character as he would relate well to the average Australian, but I don't think he is the one to put his foot down and get the rest of the Libs to pull there heads in and toe the line, I'm not that fond of Tony Abbott but think they are in need a pitbull and not a lovable teddy bear to stand up to Rudd.


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## derty (30 November 2009)

Maybe for leader of the Libs. They will need a greater man than Hockey to get the Libs anywhere near power. 

current standing:
Turnbull: elitist wanker
Abbott: godbothering wanker
Hockey: anointed by the desiccated coconut. 

Either way these guys are in the political boondocks for a while yet.


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## Donga (30 November 2009)

Julia said:


> That's quite true.  Doesn't alter the fact that Rudd & Co will make mincemeat of Joe Hockey in about a minute.




And there's the rub. Howard knows it as does Minchin, Abbott & co. Joe is the fall guy markII. So big lovable Joe will have a honeymoon period with the electorate then get belted, they lose the election and the right wing will wheel in who they really want. 

In the meantime think there is a chance of the Liberal/Nats splitting, as the conservatives don't seem to understand that Rudd has firm control of the centre. And wouldn't surpise me if Turnbull resurfaces in again, though not with the Liberals - new Republican Party?  

Abbott strong? In a religious conviction sense - easy for him to be guided by those principles, am not convinced he really understands 21st century Australia and especially global dynamics.


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## moXJO (30 November 2009)

Turnbull might just survive. Fielding is calling for a royal commission into the ets. Hope this ets gets delayed either way.


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## bryan_palmer (30 November 2009)

derty said:


> Maybe for leader of the Libs. They will need a greater man than Hockey to get the Libs anywhere near power.
> 
> current standing:
> Turnbull: elitist wanker
> ...




One of them, from this day onwards, will wear his leadership like a crown of thorns...


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## bloomy88 (30 November 2009)

nomore4s said:


> Problem is they don't really have many other options




That's an understatement


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## Calliope (30 November 2009)

Hockey will contest the leadership on the basis that that the Liberal senators get a free vote. In this case there are enough "laborals" in the party for the vote to get up and all this upheaval would have been for naught.

The final vote will be between Hockey and Abbot  i.e. between the "laborals" and the conservatives. It will be a close vote, but that is how the party is divided

Many in the party are really Labor at heart, and post-Howard a unified party is a thing of the past.

I am conceding gloating rights + ETS to the Left.


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## Julia (30 November 2009)

Calliope said:


> Hockey will contest the leadership on the basis that that the Liberal senators get a free vote. In this case there are enough "laborals" in the party for the vote to get up and all this upheaval would have been for naught.
> 
> The final vote will be between Hockey and Abbot  i.e. between the "laborals" and the conservatives. It will be a close vote, but that is how the party is divided
> 
> ...



That's exactly as I see it, Calliope.
All this drama and they will end up where they would have had they allowed Mr Turnbull to have his way in the first place.

I have zero respect for Joe Hockey.  He said he would not challenge Malcolm Turnbull.  But apparently some technicality has been unearthed whereby the spill will occur, Turnbull will get tossed, and Hockey will be able to move in without actually putting up a challenge.

For god's sake, what rubbish.  If he doesn't have the ticker to actually come out and challenge Turnbull he should get back in his corner.

And then apparently he is agreeing to the whole proposition if everyone gets a free vote.  More nonsense.  Conscience votes should be restricted to personal/moral questions, not matters of policy like this.

The whole thing has done indescribable damage to the coalition.  The members of Monty Python could not have done it better.

They deserve every bit of the scorn and derision which will inevitably be directed towards them by the government.

About the only politician who is genuine in his beliefs and holds true to these is Bob Brown.  I'd never vote Green, but I respect their lack of guile.


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## wayneL (1 December 2009)

Has the Fabian Society infiltrated the Liberal Party?

The Liberal Party are purportedly economic liberals, but the party is stacked with social liberals and social democrats. WTF?


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## GumbyLearner (1 December 2009)

I heard from a trusted source years ago that this guy was one hell of a fund-raiser in his pre-pollie days. So it's not like he can't organise a group enmasse.


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## Timmy (1 December 2009)

Installing Joe Hockey as Liberal leader looks like it could well be an intelligent move.  He has the similar moderate policies as Mr Turnbull, which is not going to scare the electorate (installing a fundamentalist - I mean that in non-religous sense - like Abbott would most likely be very damaging to the party, Australians tend not to like radicals as leaders).  But he comes without the crash-through or crash, abrasive, approach that has seemed to characterise Mr Turnbull's leadership style.  

Allowing a conscience vote on the ETS is very sensible indeed, it should see Liberal parliamentarians being able to vote for an ETS that has been hammered out by themselves in consultation with the government, an ETS that seems to be accepted by moderates as a good solution (_The Australian_ newspaper ran an editorial supporting the ETS: A good deal, so cool the hot air..._"But the bill, as amended after five weeks' intense negotiations with the Coalition, is as good a deal for business and farmers as they are likely to get"_).  

In the bigger picture, Hockey is a likeable person (I don't think Turnbull could ever be described as likeable), he should be a good alternative in the minds of the electorate to Mr Rudd.


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## GumbyLearner (1 December 2009)

GumbyLearner said:


> I heard from a trusted source years ago that this guy was one hell of a fund-raiser in his pre-pollie days. So it's not like he can't organise a group enmasse.




Just thought I'd add a fund raiser for charity and non-profit organisations to that post. That way no-one is confused.


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## Julia (1 December 2009)

Timmy said:


> Allowing a conscience vote on the ETS is very sensible indeed, it should see Liberal parliamentarians being able to vote for an ETS that has been hammered out by themselves in consultation with the government, an ETS that seems to be accepted by moderates as a good solution (_The Australian_ newspaper ran an editorial supporting the ETS: A good deal, so cool the hot air..._"But the bill, as amended after five weeks' intense negotiations with the Coalition, is as good a deal for business and farmers as they are likely to get"_).



That's in total contrast to the views of Frontier Economics who have analysed the amended ETS.  This is an extract from the 7.30 Report of 25 November 2009.



> CHRIS UHLMANN: The party brawling is also masking what some see as big problems with the compromised emissions trading deal.
> 
> DANNY PRICE, FRONTIER ECONOMICS: This will mean much, much higher electricity costs for a large number of households, most households.
> 
> ...







The idea of a conscience vote is essentially to free Mr Hockey from having to actually make a decision, something I doubt is one of his talents.  Viz, his asking Twitterers what he should do about the ETS, for heaven's sake!


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## Tink (1 December 2009)

The dinosaurs are destroying the Libs.

Now I can understand why Costello wouldnt even consider the position. 

He knew what he would have been in for.

The party is too divided


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## Timmy (1 December 2009)

Julia said:


> Viz, his asking Twitterers what he should do about the ETS, for heaven's sake!




That sounds like an innovative approach to seeking information, maybe even democracy in action!


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## Nyden (1 December 2009)

Tony Abbott is now the new liberal leader. I didn't entirely expect that!


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## Timmy (1 December 2009)

Nyden said:


> Tony Abbott is now the new liberal leader. I didn't entirely expect that!



 More years of irrelevance and wandering in the wilderness coming up for the Libs!


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## Putty7 (1 December 2009)

Garpal Gumnut will be having a good day then lol


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## moXJO (1 December 2009)

Timmy said:


> More years of irrelevance and wandering in the wilderness coming up for the Libs!




At least we have some form of opposition now, not more yes men. Even though I think Abbott and Bishop are a bit on the nose. At least the ets won't get up, but a DD loss is a certainty if they don't change public opinion very fast on this particular ets. IMO labor won't gain votes, will more likely go to greens or indies


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## Wysiwyg (1 December 2009)

moXJO said:


> Even though I think Abbott and Bishop are a bit on the nose.



What really would be on the nose is if Peter Costello came back to be Treasurer with Tony Abbot as  P.M.


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## noco (1 December 2009)

Well Julia, you now do not have to worry about Turnbull or Hockey.

A new scenario is about to develope with Abbott in command.

Watch for the next episode of "The Days of our Lives" in Canberra???????????????


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## moXJO (1 December 2009)

Wysiwyg said:


> What really would be on the nose is if Peter Costello came back to be Treasurer with Tony Abbot as  P.M.




Deja vue you reckon wysi  Hopefully abbot is just the attack dog while the libs foster some new presentable talent. Atm libs are just cutting too many slices from the same turd.


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## dbcok (1 December 2009)

Well there is chance of  payback from the losing Turnbull voters.Abbott showed no loyalty to the leader and party decisions.
There is a chance that internecine conflict between opposing factions in the Liberal parties will be more important than any policy considerations.
In the past these internal conflicts can split parties for years.


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## Wysiwyg (1 December 2009)

moXJO said:


> Deja vue you reckon wysi  Hopefully abbot is just the attack dog while the libs foster some new presentable talent. Atm libs are just cutting too many slices from the same turd.



I was thinking of the Abbot and Costello show. :  I have never heard that expression used about "cutting too many slices etc." and being a predominantly visual person I found that disgusting.


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## moXJO (1 December 2009)

dbcok said:


> Well there is chance of  payback from the losing Turnbull voters.Abbott showed no loyalty to the leader and party decisions.
> There is a chance that internecine conflict between opposing factions in the Liberal parties will be more important than any policy considerations.
> In the past these internal conflicts can split parties for years.




What’s worse, is that senators may cross the floor as revenge and pass the bill anyway. I think mostly labor voters were in love with Turnbull. Abbot however has no love from any voters at all, so a lot of work to be done. If anyone needs a spin makeover its this guy.


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## Timmy (1 December 2009)

moXJO said:


> Abbot however has no love from any voters at all, so a lot of work to be done. If anyone needs a spin makeover its this guy.




Is there much that can be done with a slice of turd?


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## moXJO (1 December 2009)

Timmy said:


> Is there much that can be done with a slice of turd?




Roll it in glitter


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## derty (1 December 2009)

Well that sure was a nice xmas present for Rudd. 

I'd prefer Howard to Abbott, though it is a bit hard to stick glitter to them once they get all grey and powdery.


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## Timmy (1 December 2009)

Abbott is already being referred to as the Libs' Mark Latham...


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## It's Snake Pliskin (1 December 2009)

Timmy said:


> Installing Joe Hockey as Liberal leader looks like it could well be an intelligent move.  He has the similar moderate policies as Mr Turnbull, which is not going to scare the electorate (installing a fundamentalist - I mean that in non-religous sense - like Abbott would most likely be very damaging to the party, Australians tend not to like radicals as leaders).  But he comes without the crash-through or crash, abrasive, approach that has seemed to characterise Mr Turnbull's leadership style.
> 
> Allowing a conscience vote on the ETS is very sensible indeed, it should see Liberal parliamentarians being able to vote for an ETS that has been hammered out by themselves in consultation with the government, an ETS that seems to be accepted by moderates as a good solution (_The Australian_ newspaper ran an editorial supporting the ETS: A good deal, so cool the hot air..._"But the bill, as amended after five weeks' intense negotiations with the Coalition, is as good a deal for business and farmers as they are likely to get"_).
> 
> In the bigger picture, Hockey is a likeable person (I don't think Turnbull could ever be described as likeable), he should be a good alternative in the minds of the electorate to Mr Rudd.




I disagree with your comments Timmy. I agree with Mr Abbott on the point that it is not a vote on conscience it is a vote on policy. Whether he is likable or not is not important when the policy direction is what the public are supporting. 

To use words like fundamentalist and radical is harsh and would also describe the populace that supports him. The anti ETS vote is bigger than the support for it.


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## Timmy (1 December 2009)

It's Snake Pliskin said:


> To use words like fundamentalist and radical is harsh




The truth is a bit harsh sometimes, yes.  

And you're a bit late Snake ... Hockey's run is over for now.  But easier to comment in hindsight, right?


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## It's Snake Pliskin (1 December 2009)

Timmy said:


> The truth is a bit harsh sometimes, yes.



No it is misleading.


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## Timmy (1 December 2009)

It's Snake Pliskin said:


> No it is misleading.




The truth is misleading?  Go figure


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## drsmith (1 December 2009)

Joe Hockey must now be wondering what the day would have delivered had he gone down the route of a party room secret ballot on the ETS upon becoming leader instead of a senate conscience vote.


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## Julia (2 December 2009)

drsmith said:


> Joe Hockey must now be wondering what the day would have delivered had he gone down the route of a party room secret ballot on the ETS upon becoming leader instead of a senate conscience vote.



I think it was more the other way around, i.e. his declaration prior to the ballot between himself, Turnbull and Abbott that if elected he would allow a conscience vote. I believe that weak and indecisive stand would have lost him a lot of respect.


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## frankie_boy (28 May 2010)

i have Bumped this thread.. cause sheesh.. people are talking about Gills for PM... everyone needs a backup.. even Mr Abbot...


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