# Will James lose the Packer empire?



## metric (22 May 2009)

"the first generation clears the land. the second generation clears the debt. the third generation clears the assets".



> "For James, money is a measure of his self-worth and a scorecard of his success. His self-esteem is the net present value of his assets, says one old friend..."






> It seems he is obsessed with the amount of money he has lost. And why wouldn't he be? In the last 12 months, (as of nov 2008)he has lost his top spot as Australia's richest man and has waved goodbye to more than half his $6.2 billion fortune. Mr Packer has been bleeding wealth at the rate of $6000 a minute, $360,000 an hour, or $8.6 million a day. And that's just the average.




http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24586360-5007146,00.html



> Packer sees dice go gamblers' way
> 
> MELCO Crown Entertainment - the Macau casino joint venture between the James Packer-backed gaming group Crown and Asian businessman Lawrence Ho - has sunk to a first-quarter loss amid what it has described as an "abnormally high win rate" by gamblers.
> 
> ...




http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,27753,25520939-462,00.html


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## vincent191 (22 May 2009)

*Re: will james lose the packer empire*

His father & grandfather will rollover in their graves if they know what he had done. Sold off his core assets to get into casinos. 

I have been to his casinos in Vegas & Macau and in my opinion it does not look good. The strip in Vegas has a peculiar characteristic.  All the joints in the middle of the strip are well patronised but the establishments at both ends of the strip does not have the same crowd drawing capacity. It seems like people don't like walking that extra few hundred yards. His intended acquisitions were located away from the middle of the strip.

Macau is a joke. I think from memory there are 36 big casinos located within maybe a couple of square kilometers. When I was there last month half the tables were closed in nearly all the casinos because of the lack of patronage. In the past if you are only gambling the minimum amount you will be asked to vacate your seat and let someone else sit down !!!

Most of their patrons are from China and China has placed restrictions on their mainland citizens from visiting Macau. In general they are only allowed 2 visits a year and visas are required. In the past movement was not restricted. 

The reasons (according to the taxi drivers) were Macau did not donate enough money to the earthquake relief fund and it was proving to be a magnet to corrupt officials gambling away fortunes.

To add further complications some of the local operators are not paying their staff and as a result the service is terrible. For example I had to carry my own luggage to my hotel room because there was no bell boy around and the service in the restaurants in the casinos are aweful. Ask for an ashtray and you can finish smoking the whole package and still no ashtray.

And don't ever fly that Macau airline Viva. They cancel flights without notice and will not offer compensation. Fancy an airline that only answer their telephones between 9am to 5 pm, Monday to Fridays only.

The above comments are from my own personal experience. DYOR


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## Garpal Gumnut (22 May 2009)

metric said:


> "the first generation clears the land. the second generation clears the debt. the third generation clears the assets".




Too true, too true, and it would seem so in Jamie's case.

gg


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## prawn_86 (22 May 2009)

Surely they would just have a cool $1bill tucked away in a few banks etc for 'personal' accounts. So if he blows it all down to that they can still live off the interest for a while (few generations)


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## mazzatelli1000 (22 May 2009)

prawn_86 said:


> Surely they would just have a cool $1bill tucked away in a few banks etc for 'personal' accounts. So if he blows it all down to that they can still live off the interest for a while (few generations)




Yes, but you forget pride
LOL

It will be unlikely he will lay low and live of interest


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## Aussiejeff (22 May 2009)

Shirley KRudd'nCo will bail him out.

Aww, craps shoot. Doesn't he rate as a Business Too Big To Fail?


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## metric (22 May 2009)

not only is james selling the assets...he's also selling the toys!!


Billionaire James Packer Forced To Sell His Yacht, Triplex Apartment In Money Crunch


January 18, 2009 08:52 PM 





> Even multibillionaires are feeling the pinch. James Packer, once Australia's richest man, has reportedly put his $50m yacht up for sale, postponed delivery of a $60m private jet and left a swimming pool complex at his family property half-built.
> 
> Mr Packer, 41, who inherited a fortune from his father, the media tycoon Kerry Packer, has seen the value of his assets halve in the past year, from $6bn to less than $3bn, according to the Sydney Sunday Telegraph. As a result, he is dismantling his playboy lifestyle. A three-level Mayfair apartment is also up for sale.




http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...lionaire-forced-to-sell-his-toys-1419290.html


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## dalek (22 May 2009)

Previous generations of Packer demonstrated great passion for what they did and I am not really seeing that in James, plus his foray into casinos really has him swimming with the sharks. 
All the wealthy people I have met made money as a consequence of their passion for their respective businesses and making squillions was not the driving element for them.


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## alphaman (22 May 2009)

> MELCO Crown Entertainment - the Macau casino joint venture between the James Packer-backed gaming group Crown and Asian businessman Lawrence Ho - has sunk to a first-quarter loss amid what it has described as an "abnormally high win rate" by gamblers.



Wow that's weird. Is volume so bad that the casino cannot realise its systemic edge?


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## cuttlefish (22 May 2009)

I would have thought that the casino business is pretty cutthroat with plenty of 'colourful' and wily players.  James doesn't come across as a shrewd, street smart operator. He's sold off some really solid assets to move money into these businesses.   So yeah - I think its pretty likely he's the generation thats going to lose it.


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## awg (22 May 2009)

mazzatelli1000 said:


> Yes, but you forget pride
> LOL
> 
> It will be unlikely he will lay low and live of interest




Feel some empathy for Jamie

from material presented in the media, he is clearly a depressive.

Kerry was once described as "the unhappiest man in the world"

and from reading material about him I am of the opinion that he was not only a depressive, but also bipolar.

The irony of the situation is vast assets are the source of his pleasure and pain


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## metric (22 May 2009)

one morning on the nine breakfast show a finance pundit, 'ross greenwood' was saying how one of james casinos was aimed at chinas poor. i forget the bow string he was drawing, but he believed james deserved what he got for targeting the poor. then he went on to say that china changed the visa system and that james looked likely to lose.....big.

his closing comment was that james would soon be down to, 1 billion.

"poor bugger.." was the sarcastic closing comment. seems theres no love at ch9.



.


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## metric (27 August 2009)

Packer loses the jewels in US Crown


By staff writers and wires
NEWS.com.au
August 27, 2009 09:50am


Crown has posted a large annual loss after declaring all but one of its US casinos worthless, admitting its billion-dollar foray into North America was "ill-timed".

Crown made a net loss of $1.19 billion for the year ended June 30, compared to a $3.5 billion profit in the previous financial year.

The staggering turnaround is largely thanks to the company writing down the value of its North American investments by $1.4 billion.

"The global financial crisis has had a major adverse impact on the North American casino industry leading to a requirement to write down the carrying value of Crown's investments in these markets," chief executive Rowen Craigie said.

"In this context, Crown's investments in North America were ill-timed."

Crown says it is not giving up on investing in the United States, Canada and Britain, despite writing down the value of all but one of its investments in those countries to nil.


Mr Craigie said despite the writedown on the US assets, Crown had one of the strongest balance sheets of any gaming company in the world.

"Crown's capability and financial strength places it in a strong position for the future," Mr Craigie said.

"Our principal efforts over the next 12 months will be to further enhance Crown's Australian operations and work closely with our joint venture partners to optimise the value of our Macau and other overseas investments."

Mr Craigie said Crown remained "excited" about the prospects for its Melco Crown investment in Macau, and the City of Dreams and Altira casino and resort projects.

"Current developments point to the resumption of growth in the overall Macau gaming market," he said.

"Recent trends in gaming activity at the newly opened City of Dreams property have been encouraging."

He said Crown's wholly-owned Australian casinos, Crown Melbourne and Burswood, had performed well in 2008/09 despite a challenging economic environment.

Both casinos are mid-way through major refurbishment and expansion programs.

"Crown Melbourne and Burswood have both made a solid start to the new financial year and the outlook for both properties is positive," Mr Craigie said.


http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,27753,25988266-462,00.html


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## Buckeroo (29 August 2009)

awg said:


> Feel some empathy for Jamie




We'll for an astute business man he's a goose - how many times do hear about companies buying assets at the top of a bubble!! I mean to say, these people actually get paid top dollar for making the same mistakes as their predecessors!

Its the same as that pin head at Rio & amazingly the shareholders still haven't got rid of him. They must be sadists, love losing.

The first thing he needs to do is stop being a millionaire show pony and start managing his business using proper risk strategies else he will loose all his inheritance.

Cheers


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## Garpal Gumnut (29 August 2009)

Buckeroo said:


> We'll for an astute business man he's a goose - how many times do hear about companies buying assets at the top of a bubble!! I mean to say, these people actually get paid top dollar for making the same mistakes as their predecessors!
> 
> Its the same as that pin head at Rio & amazingly the shareholders still haven't got rid of him. They must be sadists, love losing.
> 
> ...




I reckon he is well on his way to losing the lot.

gg


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## nomore4s (29 August 2009)

Buckeroo said:


> We'll for an astute business man he's a goose - how many times do hear about companies buying assets at the top of a bubble!! I mean to say, these people actually get paid top dollar for making the same mistakes as their predecessors!
> 
> Its the same as that pin head at Rio & amazingly the shareholders still haven't got rid of him. They must be sadists, love losing.
> 
> ...




It's still all about fear & greed isn't it?

Just because they manage millions/billions doesn't make them immune from the fear of missing out. It is people like this that actually cause the bubble be having short term visions that causes them to overpay for overvalued assets.


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## jono1887 (29 August 2009)

Buckeroo said:


> We'll for an astute business man he's a goose - how many times do hear about companies buying assets at the top of a bubble!! I mean to say, these people actually get paid top dollar for making the same mistakes as their predecessors!
> 
> Its the same as that pin head at Rio & amazingly the shareholders still haven't got rid of him. They must be sadists, love losing.
> 
> ...




well as with most other people... they just did not predict the bubble was going to burst. Pretty much the same reason other companies were getting into massive debt assuming the market was going to keep going up. It is easy to call them naive in hinds sight...


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## Garpal Gumnut (29 August 2009)

You would think he would have a rootnshoot stop loss at which he would stop trying to be the richest bloke and just settle for a life of leisure in Bowral or some other funereal town in NSW.

Given his past history with onetel and making big bets and having bad calls, it would be chilling to see him line up for a job at the local meatworks.

gg


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## Buckeroo (29 August 2009)

nomore4s said:


> It's still all about fear & greed isn't it?
> 
> Just because they manage millions/billions doesn't make them immune from the fear of missing out. It is people like this that actually cause the bubble be having short term visions that causes them to overpay for overvalued assets.




Ain't that the truth



> well as with most other people... they just did not predict the bubble was going to burst. Pretty much the same reason other companies were getting into massive debt assuming the market was going to keep going up. It is easy to call them naive in hinds sight...




Jono, I know a number of people including normal Joe Blows who started moving their investments & super funds to cash before the collapse. Most were older people who had seen similar economic craziness in the late 1980's.

Humph, then again, I keep thinking of Buffet - he got burned & hes seen all this before as well. What was he thinking?! 

And its all going to happening again soon because its always about excessive debt

Cheers


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## nomore4s (29 August 2009)

Buckeroo said:


> Humph, then again, I keep thinking of Buffet - he got burned & hes seen all this before as well. What was he thinking?!




It's not so easy for guys like Packer & Buffet to hedge against the bubble bursting - it's not like they can just move to cash. They have billion dollar businesses to run and countless employees on the books, it's a bit harder to just put everything on hold. Also alot of projects take years of planning & approvals etc etc - can't just stop them without huge costs.



> And its all going to happening again soon because its always about excessive debt




Of course another bubble will form and eventually burst, it always does thats the cycle isn't it. The questions now are - has this bubble finished bursting? Will it be re-inflated before re-bursting? And how long will that take? And how can I position myself to take advantage of either the next boom or bust - or better both?

What alot of the bears seem to be missing is there is a very real chance we could be at the bottom of the next cycle. The fear is gone and most people understand the challenges ahead in the next few years imo, so businesses will/have prepared for it (think reducing debt, strengthening balance sheets & raising capital, preparing for reduced earnings and tougher trading conditions).

This rally we are currently having is also alot more like a recovery rally then a bear market rally imo (based on the study I have done) and with the economy nowhere near as bad as most thought - including myself - there is a chance we have seen the bottom. Doesn't mean I'm right though


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## Buckeroo (30 August 2009)

nomore4s said:


> It's not so easy for guys like Packer & Buffet to hedge against the bubble bursting - it's not like they can just move to cash. They have billion dollar businesses to run and countless employees on the books, it's a bit harder to just put everything on hold. Also alot of projects take years of planning & approvals etc etc - can't just stop them without huge costs.




I can see your point nomore - once the huge oil tanker is in motion, takes time to change direction.

And I'm not overly concerned about Australia's economy right this instant, its the US & Europe that I'm worried about....they are the consumers of the world & if they have a cold, commodity produces will eventually get pneumonia.

Cheers


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## drsmith (6 May 2014)

Kerry had his own reputation as a bully, but was getting down and dirty on the street in a round of bare knuckle fisticuffs his style as a middle aged man or would he be turning in his grave ?

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/cel...s-international-headlines-20140506-zr56v.html

The old man would at the very least be turning in the box on the result of this round of James's fist fighting career.


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## drsmith (6 May 2014)

The tabloid press is having a field day and someone fortunate enough to be in the right place at the right time with a camera has hit the jackpot.



> The publication of the two images by News Corp Australia on Monday comes after a reported bidding war, reportedly topping $200,000, to procure what's believed to be a set of photographs taken as the two former mates came to blows outside Packer's Bondi apartment on Sunday.
> 
> There are reportedly more than 50 photos in the set.




https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/e...53/video-emerges-of-packer-and-gyngell-brawl/


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## pixel (6 May 2014)

So, JP has a black eye? For leaving Erica?
No worries: Miranda can Kerr him


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## Calliope (6 May 2014)

Packer apparently has a thing for Gunnedah girls.


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## Wysiwyg (6 May 2014)

Calliope said:


> Packer apparently has a thing for Gunnedah girls.



I am a person with good qualities such as compassion, conscientiousness, fairness, appreciation of nature and thoughtfulness but unfortunately lack the finances these blokes have that attract women. Sigh!


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## Tyler Durden (6 May 2014)

Did anyone see Miranda Kerr's interview on Sunrise? That was probably the first time I'd listened to her speak, and she came off as arrogant and not very bright. Personally I don't even think she's that good looking. I'm glad DJ's dumped her for Jessica Gomes.


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## trainspotter (7 May 2014)

> Newly-appointed NSW Police Minister, Stuart Ayres, said: "What we've seen in the papers today is a group of people that are doing something that wouldn't be accepted by anyone within the community
> 
> "Clearly they haven't set a standard that we would adhere to anyone else.
> 
> ...




https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/e...53/video-emerges-of-packer-and-gyngell-brawl/

NSW Police Minister, Stuart Ayres is doing a Pontius Pilate and washing his hands of the whole matter and leaving it up to local command to investigate.

Asking for a million dollars each is not going to bring your son back Mr. Stanley.

The meeting with Kerry Stokes would have been to put a cone of silence over the whole matter. 

Nothing to see here ... as you were. :frown:


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## McLovin (7 May 2014)

International media reaction...

http://media.smh.com.au/featured/taiwanese-animation-parodies-packer-brawl-5406658.html


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## Calliope (7 May 2014)

trainspotter said:


> NSW Police Minister, Stuart Ayres is doing a Pontius Pilate and washing his hands of the whole matter and leaving it up to local command to investigate.






> Newly-appointed NSW Police Minister, Stuart Ayres, said: "What we've seen in the papers today is a group of people that are doing something that wouldn't be accepted by anyone within the community.




That's nonsense. Okay it was an affray, but it did not harm or inconvenience anyone except two millionaire business  moguls. I call it entertainment. These two idiots were incapable of seriously harming each other physically.They behaved like brawling schoolboys.

The greenhorn Police Minister would be more usefully occupied by doing something about domestic and street violence where those physically stronger wreak havoc on their victims


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