# Warning: asbestos in carpet underlay from 1960s



## kincella (25 August 2009)

how many of us have ripped out the carpet.....and only now to find out we were most probably exposed to asbestos....
thanks for that jamies hardie..........
ps that company should be held accountable...they knew about the risks back then and covered it up......amazing this information came out after the recent director's fines...and not beforehand......was that another cover up ?


Fatal floor: Hardie put asbestos in carpets
By Brigid Glanville for AM and staff

Deadly flooring: If the bags were badly damaged, they were recycled into carpet underlay. (7.30 Report)

Video: James Hardie 'covers up' more asbestos secrets (7.30 Report) Audio: Asbestos fibres could be found in thousands of Australians homes (AM) Related Story: Asbestos driveway 'killed my mum' Related Story: Asbestos fears for thousands of driveways Related Story: Professor flags loophole in Hardie bans Related Story: James Hardie penalties 'not enough' Related Story: Banton's widow 'disappointed' with Hardie fines Related Story: Former James Hardie execs face the music Related Story: $1.8m fine touted for former Hardie exec Thousands of Australians who have renovated their homes and ripped up old carpets may have exposed themselves to deadly asbestos fibres.

Last night ABC1's 7.30 Report revealed James Hardie knew that for three decades until the early 1970s hessian bags which had been used to transport asbestos were recycled for use as carpet underlay.

Many Australian homes may still have carpet underlay which contains the deadly asbestos fibres.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/08/25/2665634.htm


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The owner of McDonalds once asked Harvard students if anyone knew how he made his money.
They answered easy, making hamburgers. 
No he replied. I own the best real estate in every capital city in the world>*** The best way to become a millionaire is to borrow a million dollars and have your renters pay it off.
Jack Miller


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## Smurf1976 (26 August 2009)

And not just carpet. Some people even spread the waste on their gardens to add bulk to the soil etc.

Planter boxes (the box itself, not the contents. The box is commonly painted and looks like concrete)

Bakealite plastic (including old electrical fittings)

High temperature wiring insulation (household ovens, hot water etc)

Communications pits (Telstra still has thousands if not millions of them in use today)

Brakes (automotive, industrial)

Decorative paints

Putty (the type that dries white and is quite brittle on the outside, soft and grey on the inside)

Roofing

Cement sheeting

Vinyl, especially flooring (including tiles)

Electrical switchboards (the black material it's all mouted on, asbestos inserts in fuse bases, fire proofing)

Gaskets (automotive, industrial and in some domestic applications particularly heaters)

Gas heater (and hot water heater) flues certainly. These flues may have also been used with oil heaters in some states

Pipes of various types, including fresh water supply and for the protection of electrical cables

Pipe lagging and all kinds of high temperature insulation, most notoriously in power stations but likely in any industrial situation involving a boiler

Old fridges and ice chests

Almost the entire construction of older transportable buildings 

Insulation under the bonnet of cars

Fire proofing inside lift doors

Heat shielding around wood, gas and oil heaters, particularly those installed into old fireplaces

And a lot more. It's in 3000+ products, some of which were still being manufactured or imported to Australia less than a decade ago.

As for companies, James Hardie is the most well known but they aren't the only ones. 

Goliath (Cement Australia) manufactured asbestos products at Railton (Tasmania) until 1986 clearly aware of the dangers. The then Tas Govt Railways refused to carry it in the 70's. So the company just used trucks to get it to the plant instead... But to be fair, Cement Australia didn't own it then and they are now running various health screenings of former workers (who aren't yet sick) etc - certainly a better approach than James Hardie. The Railton plant still operates today, but only as a cement works suppling the local market and exports.

Telstra has vast amounts of the stuff still in the ground and a huge number of exposed former employees and contractors. I've personally witnessed dangerous work practices by them, in a public space, within the past decade.

Any of the older steam turbine (coal, gas) power stations would have (and in many cases still do) contain it. Those in the Latrobe Valley (Vic) are the best known but certainly not the only cases. Many of these plants are still in use today and I'm told that various incidents of asbestos exposure have occurred in recent years. 

And then there's always shopping centres, department stores, hospitals and every other place that's full of the stuff...


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## knocker (26 August 2009)

Smurf1976 said:


> And not just carpet. Some people even spread the waste on their gardens to add bulk to the soil etc.
> 
> Planter boxes (the box itself, not the contents. The box is commonly painted and looks like concrete)
> 
> ...




Um no offence mate, but you are a little slow if you did not even know half of the things you have listed above. Its been common knowledge for years, and basicially if you leave the stuff alone and don't eat or sniff it, it poses little threat. I guess the home renovators, out to make a quick buck, have suffered the most. But it is their own fault if they did not get professionals in to get rid of the stuff.


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## kincella (26 August 2009)

I have been involved with renovations for over 20 years, and I have never ever been made aware of the asbestos...except for fibro sheeting on houses....no tradesman, builder, hardware store employee or anyone else ever mentioned asbestos...........when we asked for advice on what we were doing....no tradesman ever wore protective clothing or warned me about the asbestos problem....
I am not a stupid person, and I usually engage a professional for advice and to do the job.....
I would never touch a fibro house, or one with the hint of fibro sheeting....but look at all the other stuff that has asbestos hidden in there, we were not aware of... all those tradesman over the years were not aware of, or if they were they never mentioned it to me......unbelievable

FIL was a builder, he used to scoff at using safety gear, or masks etc....scoffed at suggestions paint was dangerous....retired at aged 65 with his golden handshake....dead 6 months later, they thought his body was riddled with cancer at the time....


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## stocksontheblock (26 August 2009)

From 1960's? So when did it stop? Has it stopped?

What JH has done is, well there is no polite way to say it, yet it's outrageous.

While nothing that seems to have been said is new, and to be honest just seems like stirring things up for the sake of it, I am somewhat interested to know figures.

When did they stop putting it in carpet underlay? The 60’s was some 39 to 49 yrs ago, so how many houses still have carpet with asbestos’s in it?

Was it all underlay or a certain underlay?


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## Bafana (27 August 2009)

Must say I am a little concerned by this as growijng up my Dad was a bit of an Odd Jobs on the side sort of bloke and was a bit of a horder (still is really). I remember playing and even sleeping on underlay when I was a kid. That means I am probably a goner. Better have my mid life crisis now whilst I can still enjoy it. These mongrel dogs knew about the effects of these materials and never lifted a finger other than to hit the add button on the pointy eared accountants caclulator. Not happy.


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## moXJO (27 August 2009)

kincella said:


> FIL was a builder, he used to scoff at using safety gear, or masks etc....scoffed at suggestions paint was dangerous....retired at aged 65 with his golden handshake....dead 6 months later, they thought his body was riddled with cancer at the time....




This is still common. I had 2 carpenters (not working for me) on a job, that simply smashed through the fibro wall with hammers. They then piled it on the ground, and jumped up and down on it to make the pieces smaller. I mentioned that it contained asbestos but nup they didn't care. They then left the pile there for a few weeks. The owners mentioned it and asked if it was safe as they had small children. We ended up taking it and removing some of the ground it was on as well then chasing up the carpenters for money.

Another idiot water blasted a fibro roof and little bits of fibro went everywhere. The council made him remove all the grass then relay it with new lawn.

Another guy I know sanded the paint on his whole house and almost died. It ended up being lead based paint and he was sick for a fair while.

Tradies in general should be bagging and bin it (plastic lined bin) as it comes off. It should be removed in as big a pieces as they can. If it’s removing a fair bit there should also be a monitor that works out how much is in the air. The area should also be vacuumed by a sealed unit that does not let any particles through. Don't hang your washing out if they are stripping it. 

While some people think it’s a bit of overkill, and it’s not as bad as what they say. I have seen a few people who now regret they did not take precautions. If you’re a young bloke that cleans this crap up on occasions. Then wear the suit and mask, or insist that your boss should provide them.


Funny enough there was a lot in car brakes. I had a mate that said there is a lot in the air at traffic lights, and at the bottom of hills. They did change it out of brakes so it contains something else the last few years.


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## johenmo (27 August 2009)

If it's wet, the risk is much reduced - no dry fibres or dust floating.

Having said that, we did lots of renos when I was a teen and from then on.  So I'm prob a goner too.

7 years ago we had our asbestos gutters removed.  HAD to use a licenced removalist.  The workers used gloves but nothing else.  Got it on thems elves etc as they stuffed it into the danger bags.  Left a few pieces around everywhere which I cleaned up.

Didnt know about underlay.  Better build next time.


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## Buddy (27 August 2009)

I knew it was/is widespread. But I didn't know (or had forgotten) that it is in all those products.

I listened to Rose Marie Vojakovic (from the Asbestos Diseases Society) the other night, and it looks like the next round of sufferers will not be directly related to the mining/production/manufacturung side of asbestos. There will be cases from even occasional contact with the stuff.

It's very worrying for all of us. This stuff is everywhere.

I still use Hardie products these days (Hardieflex). Hope it's OK?? 

Bit of a dilemma with Hardies. What to do with them? If they are wound up then there will be no income stream to pay for health care & compensation. Maybe the company should be (somehow??) nationalised and all profits go towards the victims.


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## pj2105 (27 August 2009)

knocker said:


> Um no offence mate, but you are a little slow if you did not even know half of the things you have listed above. Its been common knowledge for years, and basicially if you leave the stuff alone and don't eat or sniff it, it poses little threat. I guess the home renovators, out to make a quick buck, have suffered the most. But it is their own fault if they did not get professionals in to get rid of the stuff.




Yes, your right it is in alot of things.

Here is something you might not have realised.  Remember the towers falling down on Sept 11?  All that dust?  Those building made in the 70's were full of asbestos...those images of all those people fleeing for their life...

...one last thing to consider...it only takes one fiber to cause cancer, just one, the size of a speck of dust....I hate to think what will happen over the next 30 years time.


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## prawn_86 (27 August 2009)

pj2105 said:


> ...one last thing to consider...it only takes one fiber to cause cancer, just one, the size of a speck of dust....I hate to think what will happen over the next 30 years time.




While not wanting to belittle the dangerous effects of asbestos, i think this is a bit over the top personally.

Sure it takes just one particle to cause cancer, but alternatively you could breathe thousands of particles and not get cancer.

Just like it only takes one mozzie to give malaria, but you could be bitten by thousands and not get it...


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## moXJO (27 August 2009)

prawn_86 said:


> While not wanting to belittle the dangerous effects of asbestos, i think this is a bit over the top personally.
> 
> Sure it takes just one particle to cause cancer, but alternatively you could breathe thousands of particles and not get cancer.
> 
> Just like it only takes one mozzie to give malaria, but you could be bitten by thousands and not get it...




Yeah... you can breathe a fair bit of it in and not be affected. But on the flip side you can breathe a little in and get it. I have had friends that died from the dust over the years who thought the same thing. Others I know use to cut it with an angle grinder, and pick the dust outa their nose later that night with no ill effect
I've been in asbestos dust that thick you could not see a meter in front of you when I was working at 16 (with no mask and suit). The boss said I would be fine Lucky so far, lung scans are clean

IMO it’s not worth the risk mask, suit, plastic lined bin and bags at a minimum. If you wet it down make sure you’re not washing the fibers all over the place. You just need to wet it down enough to stop any fibers from becoming airborne


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## gfresh (27 August 2009)

To put some things in perspective.. considering it was in "nearly everything" in the 50's, 60's, and 70's, and if everybody who came into casual exposure with it would develop Mesothelioma, you'd have most of the population dropping off from the disease after 20-30-40 years. Not to downplay the effect on those who it has effected or killed, but it is not the only risk out there. 

If you smoke you are probably at greater risk of dying of lung cancer, many foods may eventually help cause cancer cells in the body, smog from pollution in the major cities can introduce carcinogens in young children, etc, etc. It's a toxic world.

At least this will put the spotlight on being careful once again, and to not take the substance lightly.


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## Tisme (8 August 2018)

https://archpaper.com/2018/08/epa-asbestos-manufacturing/

'serious of loopholes?



> *EPA is now allowing asbestos back into manufacturing*
> By SYDNEY FRANKLIN • August 6, 2018
> National News Product Technology
> The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has enacted a SNUR (Significant New Rule) allowing companies to use new asbestos-containing products on a case-by-case basis. (Courtesy Mesothelioma + Asbestos Awareness Center)
> ...


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