# Costello Quits!!



## numbercruncher (25 November 2007)

Talk about take your bat and ball and go home, omg! 




> Former Treasurer Costello resigns
> By staff reporter
> 
> The former Treasurer, Peter Costello has announced he won't be running for the leadership of the Liberal Party and intends to resign from Parliament.
> ...




http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Costello-resigns-9A42H?OpenDocument


----------



## moneymajix (25 November 2007)

*Re: Costello Quits !!*

After 17 years in parliament he probably doesn't want to hang around another 3 to 6 years to possibly get another chance at PM.

Generational change.

Who will be the Liberal leader?


----------



## hangseng (25 November 2007)

*Re: Costello Quits !!*



numbercruncher said:


> Talk about take your bat and ball and go home, omg!
> 
> http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Costello-resigns-9A42H?OpenDocument




I will look at buying shares in any company he consults to.


----------



## ithatheekret (25 November 2007)

*Re: Costello Quits !!*

Sorry NC , I know you don't like Mr.C. , but I do and am saddened by his departure . All I saw was a man standing up and saying , I'm taking responsibility for this loss too , the generation gap shift , echoed in his response in a call for young blood in the party .

Oh crikey , that means Malcolm has a chance . Oh chit it is a bad day !


----------



## wayneL (25 November 2007)

*Re: Costello Quits !!*

Well that's straight out of left field! Whoa!

Bad news for the Libs IMO. Who's left?

Abbot?
Ruddock?
Andrews???
Downer???????????

There's Turnbull, but I personally would take a sand wedge to the back of his head given the opportunity...could think of nothing worse.


----------



## wayneL (25 November 2007)

*Re: Costello Quits !!*

Just looking forward, this could lead to quite a few years of disarray in the Liberal party.

A bad mistake not letting him run for PM. IMO


----------



## Knobby22 (25 November 2007)

*Re: Costello Quits !!*

Costello is a realist (unlike Howard).

He would have made a great Prime Minister but it aint going to happen.
These are the sort of decisions that need to be made if the Libs are to get back within two terms.

Now if we can only get Kevin Andrews and Alexander Downer to do the same thing.


----------



## wayneL (25 November 2007)

*Re: Costello Quits !!*



Knobby22 said:


> Costello is a realist (unlike Howard).
> 
> He would have made a great Prime Minister but it aint going to happen.
> These are the sort of decisions that need to be made if the Libs are to get back within two terms.



Agree. Despite the infamous and unpopular (and blown out of all proportion) smirk, I think he is cut from the right cloth to make a very good PM.

I dislike him a lot less than 95% of politicians. (a relative compliment)

A shame.


----------



## numbercruncher (25 November 2007)

*Re: Costello Quits !!*

Liberals are now crushed, the cant even play the "experience" card at the next election, lets all just get comfortable with Labor and accept them as the much needed fresh direction for all Australians.

Hitler did something equally dumb in ww2, he turned his guns on Russia, Liberal's IR laws turned the guns on their voter base, the working class.

Look modern Labor and Liberal are essentially the same in Economic conservatism, some Liberal supporters just need to open the other eye and see things from what they really are, the world isnt coming to an end, its just a new fairer more responsible and progressive Australia.

all is good


----------



## marklar (25 November 2007)

*Re: Costello Quits !!*



wayneL said:


> Bad news for the Libs IMO. Who's left?



It has to be Turnbull, he had a swing to him  whereas the others are now in marginal seats 

m.


----------



## rederob (25 November 2007)

*Re: Costello Quits !!*



moneymajix said:


> After 17 years in parliament he probably doesn't want to hang around another 3 to 6 years to possibly get another chance at PM.
> 
> Generational change.
> 
> Who will be the Liberal leader?



Agreed.
It will be difficult for the Coalition to win the next election, which would have Costello as Opposoition Leader (at best) for another 6 years.
He's too talented to destroy his life because Howard had a dream that turned out a nightmare.


----------



## moneymajix (25 November 2007)

*Re: Costello Quits !!*

Howard should have gone a couple of years ago.

Power hungry?

Should have given Costello shot. Even if Costello had lost, may not have been by such a large margin.

Costello may have displayed more "heart" than Howard.



I wonder if Downer is going to say bye, bye next!


Next Liberal Leader might be Turnbull.


----------



## dutchie (25 November 2007)

*Re: Costello Quits !!*

That decision must have been a hard one. 

I congratulate him on his courage and foresight to make it.

He may well have been one of the great Prime Ministers if given the chance -  but alas was not to be.

I am sure he will make a good mentor.

The Libs definitely need new blood and Peter has aided the process.

Good luck to him and JH and thanks for the last 11 years (anyone denying their positive contribution to Australia is one eyed in my opinion).

(PS I voted Green)


----------



## Col Lector (25 November 2007)

*Re: Costello Quits !!*

IMO the fairytale is getting sweeter by the minute. Glad to see the back of Costello.
However - I was pleased to see Turnbull get up - despite being staunch in my support of the ALP push.
Why?
Turnbull's speech following his win in Wentworth gave an insight into his potential as a  leader. Someone who would move away from the Howard/Costello Liberal devisive/divide & conquer approach.  He emphasised  that he was committed to an egalatarian(sic) Oz ...used the image of the changerooms at Bondi where high-court judges etc happily mix with garbos etc.
His republican campaign was also a reflection of this. 
IMO can only be good for Oz if both Govt & Opposition have their eyes fixed on building an Australia for ALL Australians.
We might even see some consensus towards achieving some of the big-picture concepts rather than oppositition just for the sake of it.


----------



## tech/a (25 November 2007)

Another EXCELLENT decision from Costello.
He's a smarter man Than I thought!

He's looking after his own best interests,and so he should after such a long time looking after everyone elses.

I doubt he would have won the election had he been in the position to lead.
This is the very top of his game.
A tremendous move for his personal future.
He'd be worth a fortune in the business world.
Watch him get snapped up!

Dont worry about the Liberal party they have years to re build and freshen the blood.
Normally a governing Labor party is liberals best political re election ally.


----------



## greggy (25 November 2007)

numbercruncher said:


> Talk about take your bat and ball and go home, omg!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks Peter Costello. I live in your electorate (Higgins, Vic). You stood for yesterday's election and now you're running away.  Why bother standing in the first place?  Now we will soon have to vote again. The taxpayers will have to pay for your change of mind. How convenient!


----------



## >Apocalypto< (25 November 2007)

Disappointing news!

Well now, the best way to describe Kevin Rudd is a *giant killer!*


----------



## So_Cynical (25 November 2007)

Surprising news for sure....as others have said prob the best thing
for the party's reelection hopes.

Turnbull would be good, isn't he a republican?


----------



## greggy (25 November 2007)

So_Cynical said:


> Surprising news for sure....as others have said prob the best thing
> for the party's reelection hopes.
> 
> Turnbull would be good, isn't he a republican?



Turnbull is a republican and politically moderate. IMO the party's future lies with him. He did well to retain the seat of Wentworth. Apparently he picked up 30% of the Green's preferences which is quite high.
The other Liberal Party member I liked in particular was Mal Brough, but he's now lost his seat.


----------



## jeffho (25 November 2007)

The Chasers were right, he'll never be PM


----------



## skint (25 November 2007)

I agree with Keating's comments that Costello was the most indolent and unimaginative treasurer this country has seen. Keating made the bold initiatives such as floating the dollar, deregulating the financial markets and proposing to the Reserve a 2-3% inflation target. No such moves by Costello. He just happened to be fortunate enough to be around during the massive global boom. A drover's dog could have run surpluses in that climate. I do think he's being realistic though. If he assumed the leadership, he wouldn't have had it for long with the likes of Turnball looming in the wings.  
Below is an article by Ross Gittens of the SMH, that does  a good job of dispelling some of the economic myths that have been peddled by the coalition.


http://business.smh.com.au/rubbish-leaders-spread/20071123-1ch3.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1


----------



## Julia (25 November 2007)

This will make the Labor victory even sweeter.  Costello would have been a strong opponent in Parliament.  
Good luck to him.    Another casualty of John Howard's political selfishness and lack of realism.

It seems Malcolm Turnbull must be the only viable option.  But, given the Libs general state of disarray at present, who knows who will become Leader.
Downer has had a go and failed miserably.  Surely they won't consider the Abbott!!!


----------



## Prospector (25 November 2007)

Is this for real? Dammit!  Oh crikeys, I hope that doesnt mean our member Pyne gets the gig


----------



## Aussiejeff (25 November 2007)

Julia said:


> This will make the Labor victory even sweeter.  Costello would have been a strong opponent in Parliament.
> Good luck to him.    Another casualty of John Howard's political selfishness and lack of realism.
> 
> It seems Malcolm Turnbull must be the only viable option.  But, given the Libs general state of disarray at present, who knows who will become Leader.
> Downer has had a go and failed miserably.  Surely they won't consider the Abbott!!!




Michael Kroger and Joe Hockey are youngish, with somewhat "forceful" personalities. Might be the go for the Libs to have a punt on a newbie....? (it seems to have worked for Maxine!)

The worst part about Costellos resignation is the complete lie he gave to his supporters last night. How could he lie straight in bed after offering them some hope? Not only that, but his shell-shocked electorate will now have to go back for a by-election. Don't be surpised if the Lib replacement candidate gets hammered by the Labor candidate this time around....

AJ


----------



## rederob (25 November 2007)

Aussiejeff said:


> The worst part about Costellos resignation is the complete lie he gave to his supporters last night. How could he lie straight in bed after offering them some hope? Not only that, but his shell-shocked electorate will now have to go back for a by-election. Don't be surpised if the Lib replacement candidate gets hammered by the Labor candidate this time around....
> 
> AJ



I believe he said he will serve out his term on the backbenches.
If he does not, then add it to the lies he's peddled.


----------



## Julia (25 November 2007)

Prospector said:


> Is this for real? Dammit!  Oh crikeys, I hope that doesnt mean our member Pyne gets the gig



Calm down, Prospector, there's a good girl.  Even the Libs couldn't have that much of a death wish.  (Or could they???)
Andrews is of the same ilk.


----------



## skint (25 November 2007)

Aussiejeff said:


> Michael Kroger and Joe Hockey are youngish, with somewhat "forceful" personalities. Might be the go for the Libs to have a punt on a newbie....? (it seems to have worked for Maxine!)
> 
> The worst part about Costellos resignation is the complete lie he gave to his supporters last night. How could he lie straight in bed after offering them some hope? Not only that, but his shell-shocked electorate will now have to go back for a by-election. Don't be surpised if the Lib replacement candidate gets hammered by the Labor candidate this time around....
> 
> AJ




My understanding is that he's decided to carry on as a local member "for now". If he does, would that allow him to have another run from the backbench against a new leader (probably Turnbull) if they slip up? Probably not, but who knows in politics. Kroger, being hard right would probably be a bit of a risk in the current climate. My guess is Turnbull. Like him or hate him, he's probably the brightest and also more adept at reincarnating himself in a more populist mould. Downer, Abboott or Nelson would be a disaster for the conservatives.

P.S. Sheesh! I just realised I asked and answered my own question. I think I've got Rudd's disease!


----------



## Aussiejeff (25 November 2007)

Hahaha Skint.... that's one of the side effects of "Post Election Fever Syndrome" 

When PC says "for now" I suspect he is talking relatively "short term". Of course, I could be wrong! Let's face it - the sooner they sort out the mess of who will pick up the pieces, the better off they will be. How about Mark Vaille? He's trustworthy ain't he?

AJ


----------



## justjohn (25 November 2007)

Joe Hockey is my tip ,he has had huge media exposure(like Rudd)and also a personality unlike most pollies.:


----------



## 2020hindsight (25 November 2007)

greggy said:


> Thanks Peter Costello. I live in your electorate (Higgins, Vic). You stood for yesterday's election and now you're running away.  Why bother standing in the first place?  Now we will soon have to vote again. The taxpayers will have to pay for your change of mind. How convenient!



greggy - howdy
I don't think he's resigning from parliament - i think he's planning to stick around for 3 more years  (as a backbencher)
 but I might be wrong   (ahh - reading back through the posts , I notice skint agrees ) 

My guess is that there will be other byelections after resignations however (the likes of Ruddock or Downer etc) - just a guess of course.

Costello was so seriously screwed by Howard - selfish old idiot !  deluded enough to think he was the only one who could do well in an election - problem was johnny - noone could have done much worse  


Costello (had he been given some time to show himself as a leader and disassociate himself from johnny's prejudices) would have been a very interesting prospect.  Sadly one of those things we'll never now know.   - I'm sure that "being taken for granted to the end" finally got the better of his pride 



Aussiejeff said:


> ...When PC says "for now" I suspect he is talking relatively "short term". Of course, I could be wrong!



AJ - I think I heard him say 3 years  - but you're right - I could be wrong too lol - 
 and time will tell
and I wouldn't blame him if he left after a couple of years.  No one should be treated like he's been treated - I mean , even a dog is entitled to fairness.... 

Howard should be reported to the RSPCA !


----------



## 2020hindsight (25 November 2007)

Gee Turnbull's looking good isn't he  - won Wentworth convincingly against the odds etc.

Maxine as his side kick lol ..  (100 to 1?)


----------



## justjohn (25 November 2007)

surely if PC was fair dinkum and wanted the top job in the first place he would have got the numbers and outed Howard 12-18 months ago :


----------



## Mofra (25 November 2007)

justjohn said:


> Joe Hockey is my tip ,he has had huge media exposure(like Rudd)and also a personality unlike most pollies.:



JH looked absolutely devastated on election night, but he really was out of his depth as workplace relations minister. His forte is his likeability, his everyman persona. As minister for the portfolio that caused the greatest amount of angst amongst the electorate, I'm not sure he has enough fight left in him to be the opposition leader in the short term.

Abbott has said in the past he'd like to be leader, but like most people I'd rather eat rat poison than vote for him.


----------



## chops_a_must (25 November 2007)

*Re: Costello Quits !!*



ithatheekret said:


> Sorry NC , I know you don't like Mr.C. , but I do and am saddened by his departure . All I saw was a man standing up and saying , I'm taking responsibility for this loss too , the generation gap shift , echoed in his response in a call for young blood in the party .



I think the young blood is a part of the problem.

The young liberals are notoriously unpopular, but this generation seems to be particularly bad, even violent now. And it's rather evident in the right wing control of the NSW branch of both the young liberals and the full liberals, and their head bashing ways.

Want to know why the Libs can't win a chook raffle in NSW? It's the so called "young blood". I'm not sure I can see it happening, or helping.


----------



## Sean K (25 November 2007)

I think Turnbull will get the opportunity to lead the party, but he's not a man of the people. Aussie tall poppy syndrome will not allow him to lead the country.

I rate Nelson an underdog chance. Anyone who has met him or heard him speak may agree.


----------



## 2020hindsight (25 November 2007)

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=228163&posted=1#post228163

great poem that Tanya Costello quotes from  - 
THE MOOCH OF LIFE 
definitely worth a read folks lol
I always liked CJ Dennis - but this one I must concede had slipped under my radar 

Excerpt follows :- (although to extract excerpts from this poem is a crime) 

The bold bits are (I think) what Tanya quotes from 


> *Yeh live, yeh love, yeh learn; an' when yeh come
> To square the ledger in some thortful hour,
> The everlastin' answer to the sum
> Must allus be, "Where's sense in gittin' sour?"*
> ...




I mean - I can imagine Costello reciting that poem 
but 
no way would Abbott have a clue as to what it means


----------



## Rafa (25 November 2007)

Prospector said:


> Is this for real? Dammit!  Oh crikeys, I hope that doesnt mean our member Pyne gets the gig




Noooooooooooooooo



I cannot believe some of the reports I have read saying Pyne represent the future of the Liberal party... you have got to be kidding me... he is in the same both as andrews, downer, nelson and abbott 


Turnbull for me...


----------



## chops_a_must (25 November 2007)

Rafa said:


> Noooooooooooooooo
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't think Pyne would be. He's the one with the beard I'm pretty sure. Hence him never really being promoted.

Turnbull provides a real danger to Rudd and Labor. As you said in another thread, he appears to be a small l liberal, and may potentially take up the "left" ground on cultural matters, and leave Labor less liberal than the Liberals. And that's the question mark about Rudd, his cultural stance, and if he doesn't appear to be taking a compassionate and centre left approach to cultural matters, he will be in trouble from within. 

You may also get a situation where traditional Labor left voters like myself, are once again directing preferences away from Labor. Which is in a big way, what has given Labor this big victory. Will Labor continue to be able to get the vote of formerly disaffected Labor voters? Who knows. But Turnbull has the opportunity to disrupt that voting stream.


----------



## moneymajix (25 November 2007)

Keating on Costello (1995)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=aaLLP4sc_6Q&feature=related


Memories...


Costello dance

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Iq0ssacReUw&feature=related


----------



## IFocus (25 November 2007)

Howard  has pretty much consigned the Libs to the wildness for some time by not handing over to Costello as per the "agreement".

Costello whether you liked him or not was a far greater team player / intellect than Howard every was just not as sneaky and dishonest. When i think of Howard that phase comes to mind "you can fool some of the people..."  As a result Australia I think IMHO lost one of the great potential prime minister's as his ability to think would have served us well.

He was ultra right wing but some how i always thought he would move to the center once he had the requirements to do so. 

Focus


----------



## IFocus (25 November 2007)

kennas said:


> I think Turnbull will get the opportunity to lead the party, but he's not a man of the people. Aussie tall poppy syndrome will not allow him to lead the country.
> 
> I rate Nelson an underdog chance. Anyone who has met him or heard him speak may agree.




Kennas wasn't it Nelson that created the fighter air craft fiasco ?


----------



## YELNATS (25 November 2007)

tech/a said:


> Another EXCELLENT decision from Costello.
> He's a smarter man Than I thought!
> 
> He's looking after his own best interests,and so he should after such a long time looking after everyone elses.
> ...




Do I detect a tongue firmly planted in cheek, Tech?

I agree, Peter Costello will probably be quickly snapped up in the business world. 

But I still reckon there's a lingering doubt about his intestinal fortitude (a polite term for "Old Fashioned Guts"). He had the opportunity to challenge Howard for the leadership and so save the Liberals from oblivion, but chose to look after his own backside instead.


----------



## Broadside (25 November 2007)

greggy said:


> Turnbull is a republican and politically moderate. IMO the party's future lies with him. He did well to retain the seat of Wentworth. Apparently he picked up 30% of the Green's preferences which is quite high.
> The other Liberal Party member I liked in particular was Mal Brough, but he's now lost his seat.




I agree it was a shame Mal Brough lost, I hope he returns and doesn't leave politics, he tried to make a difference when nothing else was working.

I agree with some of the above posts, Costello would have been a great PM, just a shame his smile looked like a smirk but that was just him.  He was an excellent Treasurer and intellect.  And if Howard had been wise enough to hand over a year ago, Costello could have shown his heart.  Not to be .

Hopefully the party doesn't move to the right, it got hijacked by some hard liners and went too far.  Maybe Turnbull can steer the ship but Libs could be out of government for at least 2 terms, it will be a hard road.

As for ALP, now that every government is ALP they can no longer pass the buck on the state responsibilities for health and education (schooling).  Now there is no one else to blame, it should be interesting if things aren't fixed.


----------



## chemist (25 November 2007)

*Re: Costello Quits !!*



ithatheekret said:


> Sorry NC , I know you don't like Mr.C. , but I do and am saddened by his departure . All I saw was a man standing up and saying , I'm taking responsibility for this loss too , the generation gap shift , echoed in his response in a call for young blood in the party .
> 
> Oh crikey , that means Malcolm has a chance . Oh chit it is a bad day !




Why the hostility to Malcolm? AFAIK he was the only sitting liberal to increase his majority, which suggests the electors don't share your view.


----------



## IFocus (25 November 2007)

YELNATS said:


> Do I detect a tongue firmly planted in cheek, Tech?
> 
> I agree, Peter Costello will probably be quickly snapped up in the business world.
> 
> But I still reckon there's a lingering doubt about his intestinal fortitude (a polite term for "Old Fashioned Guts"). He had the opportunity to challenge Howard for the leadership and so save the Liberals from oblivion, but chose to look after his own backside instead.




Hi Yelnats

This may have been possible but I think that it was always Howard that managed to marginalize the support base for Costello within the party just look at the front bench and the fact that Costello had some honesty so really he stood no chance to topple Howard.


----------



## Col Lector (25 November 2007)

Isnt it a bit of a concern (for libs, voters in his seat & taxpayers particularly) that Costello, having stated his desire to pursue  private enterprise opportunities, still intends to stay on for the three year term. 
Surely his full committment wont be there...rather, he'll be foccussing on shopping his resume around to all & sundry while leaning on the support of  handsome retainer & perks provided at taxpayer expense....
the Peter Reith model.....


----------



## OK2 (25 November 2007)

everyone is forgetting that Costello is a Victorian. anyone wish to count back to the last Vic prime minister or shadow minister? Victoria was the one state that Rudd failed to accomodate in his campaign.

may be convenient that the greenfield electorates of Qld that Labor went after were also Rudds territory, may be more than chance that he was elected to lead the party into this campaign.


----------



## Julia (25 November 2007)

skint said:


> P.S. Sheesh! I just realised I asked and answered my own question. I think I've got Rudd's disease!



Skint, this is a very serious worry.  You should seek medical help without delay.  Your demonstrated capacity to be articulate could be decidedly at risk.  The future could consist of slogans and repetition of a dogged message.


----------



## Julia (25 November 2007)

YELNATS said:


> But I still reckon there's a lingering doubt about his intestinal fortitude (a polite term for "Old Fashioned Guts"). He had the opportunity to challenge Howard for the leadership and so save the Liberals from oblivion, but chose to look after his own backside instead.



I think he just realised he simply didn't have the numbers to successfully challenge John Howard when the issue arose about a year or more ago.
And then a few months back when the Libs seemed to realise they were in trouble from Kevin Rudd, and had a meeting where clearly the majority thought John Howard should step down in favour of Costello, there seemed to be not a single one of them including Costello who was prepared to stare down Howard when he said "I have never backed down from a fight".  This statement clearly referred to his status within his own party just as much as to the fight with Labor.  So, really, all of them have themselves to blame for this whole debacle.


----------



## chops_a_must (25 November 2007)

Julia said:


> I think he just realised he simply didn't have the numbers to successfully challenge John Howard when the issue arose about a year or more ago.
> And then a few months back when the Libs seemed to realise they were in trouble from Kevin Rudd, and had a meeting where clearly the majority thought John Howard should step down in favour of Costello, there seemed to be not a single one of them including Costello who was prepared to stare down Howard when he said "I have never backed down from a fight".  This statement clearly referred to his status within his own party just as much as to the fight with Labor.  So, really, all of them have themselves to blame for this whole debacle.




I think Costello was smart enough to realise that the election was unwinnable with anyone but Howard at the helm. If they had changed leadership then (so close to the election), it would have been a disaster. And I think he knew that. The party had the chance previously. They made the bed, they're now lying in it.


----------



## numbercruncher (25 November 2007)

No one actually beleives the result would of been any different with Costello at the Helm do they ?

Be honest the Liberals started running this country with total disregard to what the majority wanted or was comfortable with, and did it with great secrecy and arrogance.

I just hope they havnt shredded the evidence I literally cant wait to see things such as the draft hardcore IR laws and the letters to the Brethren etc ... itll probably make a great book "How to run a democracy like a ruthless corporation for dummies" or something


----------



## Happy (25 November 2007)

With inevitable recession coming, there is nothing wrong to be in opposition and say - we told you so, even if it was inevitable irrespectively of whom was at the helm.


----------



## Temjin (25 November 2007)

Happy said:


> With inevitable recession coming, there is nothing wrong to be in opposition and say - we told you so, even if it was inevitable irrespectively of whom was at the helm.




lol

Well, if you were the leader of the opposition and that recession did come and everybody start blaming the government, you can be sure you will have a hard time trying to find a solution to the problem. Costello is probably aware of the impending crisis and don't want to fix the mess and prefer to get out to the commercial industry and make a buck load of money out of it. Once in a life crisis = once in a life opportunity.


----------



## Rafa (26 November 2007)

Fascinating article by Glen Milne, senior policical reporter for the Australian...



> *PM's hubris leaves the Liberal Party in ruins*
> Glenn Milne | November 26, 2007
> 
> YOU have to hand it to John Howard. The man who immortalised himself as "Lazarus with a triple bypass" has reached from just beyond the point of political extinction to achieve his ultimate personal aim; denying Peter Costello his chance to lead the Liberal Party.
> ...


----------



## Aussiejeff (26 November 2007)

Yeah.. good read Rafa.

As the election result hangover slowly dissipates from the remaining Liberal party members, I'm sure more interesting insider information will spill forth. They bottled it all up for so long behind their false "Veils Of Secrecy", so it is inevitable now that some of the grumbles the public was not aware of will emerge into the stark, full light of day. 

Some em-bittered Liberal-leaning columnists will have a field day....


AJ


----------



## bingk6 (26 November 2007)

IFocus said:


> Howard  has pretty much consigned the Libs to the wildness for some time by not handing over to Costello as per the "agreement".
> 
> Costello whether you liked him or not was a far greater team player / intellect than Howard every was just not as sneaky and dishonest. When i think of Howard that phase comes to mind "you can fool some of the people..."  As a result Australia I think IMHO lost one of the great potential prime minister's as his ability to think would have served us well.
> Focus




Costello was well and truely sc**wed by Howard, whose arrogance and selfishness had shown no bound. Costello deserved a lot of credit for Aust's economic performance and yet walked away with little to show for, which is unfortunate. I believe that he would have made a more compassionate and less divisive leader if he had been given the chance.

As for Howard's "I'll stay as long as it is in the best interest of the party for me to do so" - what a load of crap. The man was driven purely by personal ambition. So totally engrossed was he by his own self importance that he had missed the one opportunity to do the right thing which would have enabled him to quit at the top of his game and hand the leadership over to Costello as agreed.

I am not saying that Costello would have won the election, but I believe the results would not have been as catastrophic. Costello's problem was that he did not have the courage to challenge Howard when the numbers weren't there. He should have doen exactly what Keating had done. Still its all academic now.

As for Howard, I say "Good Riddance !!!!!!!". Losing his seat at Bennelong is just the icing on the cake for me and I can think of no other person that deserves it more than him.


----------



## nioka (26 November 2007)

Happy said:


> With inevitable recession coming,



 If enough people keep saying that then it will happen a lot sooner than needs be. Why is it inevitable?. There is plenty of action possible for Australia to go boom, boom, boom for a long time yet without it blowing up in our faces.


----------



## ithatheekret (26 November 2007)

*Re: Costello Quits !!*



chemist said:


> Why the hostility to Malcolm? AFAIK he was the only sitting liberal to increase his majority, which suggests the electors don't share your view.




Wentworth ........ the seats got Lib smeered all over it .

But , seeings you asked ..........

TREVOR KENNEDY , his partner , you know Trev . A.K.A. Rivkins mate , A.K.A. Richo's mate . The infamous Alpine Offset Printing team . The Swiss bank account wallies . 

But without trying to sound sarcastic , why would the Libs want a bloke that was trying to run for a Labor Senate seat in N.S.W. , during the 90's .

Or are we suppose to forget that ? 

Are we to assume a C.R.A.F.T. position towards this ?


----------



## noirua (26 November 2007)

Peter Costello will earn a fortune in the business sector and will see this decision as the best he has ever made.  Good luck to him.


----------



## YELNATS (26 November 2007)

Happy said:


> With inevitable recession coming, there is nothing wrong to be in opposition and say - we told you so, even if it was inevitable irrespectively of whom was at the helm.




If there were to be a recession, which is debateable anyway, and the Opposition claimed it was the fault of the new Government, I think the latter could be able to claim the seeds of it were sewn by the previous government.

As recessions don't just happen overnight, I think there would be a fair dose of reality in such a claim.


----------



## austek (26 November 2007)

Wasn't it M.Turnbull that escaped a jail sentence a few years ago for lack of evidence in an insider trading deal with Richo!

And as for Costello, I cannot forgive him for pushing the GST tax on us to guarantee his budget surplus, after all he didn't do anything clever achieve it otherwise.   Glad to see him go.

 If I've got it wrong, let me know.


----------



## alanding (26 November 2007)

I also hate GST. The government get money from you even when you are drink a drop of water to keep you alive.


----------



## Kauri (26 November 2007)

There wouldn't be a lot of mileage in the First Mate on the Titanic accepting the helm even as the iceberg gouged the hull and effectively left you listing and Rudderless...
Cheers
........Kauri


----------



## Broadside (26 November 2007)

austek said:


> Wasn't it M.Turnbull that escaped a jail sentence a few years ago for lack of evidence in an insider trading deal with Richo!




Source?  I can't find anything on the web regarding that.  He was business associates with Trevor Kennedy who with Richo and Rivkin were involved in Offset Alpine.  

But nothing suggests Turnbull owned OAP, please correct me if I am wrong.

I think Turnbull would be great for the Libs, get rid of the hard right and reclaim the middle moral ground.


----------



## wayneL (26 November 2007)

Broadside said:


> Source?  I can't find anything on the web regarding that.  He was business associates with Trevor Kennedy who with Richo and Rivkin were involved in Offset Alpine.
> 
> But nothing suggests Turnbull owned OAP, please correct me if I am wrong.
> 
> I think Turnbull would be great for the Libs, get rid of the hard right and reclaim the middle moral ground.



Turnbull? Moral?


----------



## Broadside (26 November 2007)

wayneL said:


> Turnbull? Moral?




Well, I meant a moderate Liberal.  I can't comment on his morals, he used to be a merchant banker but maybe he repented.


----------



## Julia (26 November 2007)

wayneL said:


> Turnbull? Moral?




What is it about Malcolm Turnbull that is immoral, Wayne?  
(Or amoral?)


----------



## wayneL (26 November 2007)

Broadside said:


> Well, I meant a moderate Liberal.  I can't comment on his morals, he used to be a merchant banker but maybe he repented.



Used to be a lawyer too.  If you're saying that he would swing the pendulum back towards the centre a bit, that would be a good thing. He'll prolly be leader; I'll be interested to see whether the liberal party still holds its hand over its heart as the Star Spangled Banner plays in the party room under him.


----------



## Broadside (26 November 2007)

wayneL said:


> Used to be a lawyer too.  If you're saying that he would swing the pendulum back towards the centre a bit, that would be a good thing. He'll prolly be leader; I'll be interested to see whether the liberal party still holds its hand over its heart as the Star Spangled Banner plays in the party room under him.




hmmm as worried as I am about the prospect of 70% union lackeys in the ALP, there has to be an even higher proportion of lawyers in the Libs......now that is a fear campaign the ALP should have played on!


----------



## wayneL (26 November 2007)

Julia said:


> What is it about Malcolm Turnbull that is immoral, Wayne?
> (Or amoral?)



I'd prefer to leave that as an open question at the moment Julia. I remain unconvinced, but with an open mind.


----------



## austek (26 November 2007)

Find it hard to fathom why people fear unionists, after working 40 years the one person that stood out to me as a completely selfless & moral person was a white collar unionist that looked after us in the seventies as a member of the ASTAA. 
 I guess there are power hungry, bloated ego's in all fields of endeavor and that would include a few traders, but we don't hate traders, especially if we are one.


----------



## wayneL (26 November 2007)

austek said:


> Find it hard to fathom why people fear unionists, after working 40 years the one person that stood out to me as a completely selfless & moral person was a white collar unionist that looked after us in the seventies as a member of the ASTAA.
> I guess there are power hungry, bloated ego's in all fields of endeavor and that would include a few traders, but we don't hate traders, especially if we are one.



Agree,

It's only "militant" unionism which has a negative impact. Moderate unionism can be a tremendous positive for both business and workers... and the overall economy. I had the the opportunity of sitting across the table from a moderate union and it was completely productive 99% of the time.


----------



## skint (26 November 2007)

Some have commented that Turnbull's prospects for assuming the Liberal leadership (and staying there) are hindered by the fact that he's stinking rich and the perception that he is the member of an electorate who's greatest burden is having to haul so much bling on their trek to the gucci outlet. Given that the coalition are likely to be in the political wildernesss for at least two terms, I feel that Turnbull would have a long time to recast himself. I doubt the Rudd family has accumulated too many frequent flyer points at the local soup kitchen.


----------



## ithatheekret (26 November 2007)

Broadside said:


> hmmm as worried as I am about the prospect of 70% union lackeys in the ALP, there has to be an even higher proportion of lawyers in the Libs......now that is a fear campaign the ALP should have played on!




  

Is that a sense of humour or moderate worry ?   

The soliciters don't worry me , the barristers do though ..............


----------



## Broadside (26 November 2007)

skint said:


> Some have commented that Turnbull's prospects for assuming the Liberal leadership (and staying there) are hindered by the fact that he's stinking rich and the perception that he is the member of an electorate who's greatest burden is having to haul so much bling on their trek to the gucci outlet. Given that the coalition are likely to be in the political wildernesss for at least two terms, I feel that Turnbull would have a long time to recast himself. I doubt the Rudd family has accumulated too many frequent flyer points at the local soup kitchen.




He shouldn't have to recast himself.  Class warfare should be a thing of the past.  Turnbull is self made and even battlers should recognise that and not punish him at the ballot box (so long as he keeps in touch with their needs and concerns).  Rudd and his wife are collectively worth millions.

PS Can't believe Tony Abbott and Brendan Nelson are thinking of putting their hands up, both have been pathetic.


----------



## 2020hindsight (26 November 2007)

skint said:


> Some have commented that Turnbull's prospects for assuming the Liberal leadership (and staying there) are hindered by the fact that he's stinking rich ..



I doubt it m8 - He'll make less as a politician than as a member of MBL board.  In that respect his political ambitions could be considered , if not altruistic, then hopefully above reproach and not greed driven (ego is another thing of course lol) 

- bit like the bloke who accepts demotion to try be more effective in those things that he believes in  - true or not, that's what he could CLAIM.  
"Why fight City Hall when you can BE City Hall" sort of thing. 

PS  I trust your streak down Pitt St went without incident   - or was it George St?   Then again, I seem to recall you gave yourself an escape clause lol.



			
				ithatheekret said:
			
		

> The solicitors don't worry me , the barristers do though ..............



As I recently heard about a court case based on a "matter of principle" - the barrister said "principles make barristers rich".


----------



## skint (26 November 2007)

Broadside said:


> He shouldn't have to recast himself.  Class warfare should be a thing of the past.  Turnbull is self made and even battlers should recognise that and not punish him at the ballot box (so long as he keeps in touch with their needs and concerns).  Rudd and his wife are collectively worth millions.
> 
> PS Can't believe Tony Abbott and Brendan Nelson are thinking of putting their hands up, both have been pathetic.




I agree. Whether someone's prince or pauper is irrelevant. Obviously, it's the policies that count. The political reality though, is that perceptions do count. For example, throughout the campaign, Rudd often stated that the "real success of the Rudd family is Therese". I think by doing that he was seeking to distance himself, to some extent, from the reality that the Rudd family is loaded (its not mine, its Therese' money). He was largely successful, as can be seen by cartoonists' depictions of Turnbull as Richie Rich, and Rudd as a bookish Harry Potter.


----------



## Rafa (26 November 2007)

2020hindsight said:


> I doubt it m8 - He'll make less as a politician than as a member of MBL board.  In that respect his political ambitions could be considered , if not altruistic, then hopefully above reproach and not greed driven (ego is another thing of course lol)
> 
> - bit like the bloke who accepts demotion to try be more effective in those things that he believes in  - true or not, that's what he could CLAIM.
> "Why fight City Hall when you can BE City Hall" sort of thing.




Agree 100%...

Both Rudd and Turbull are self made... and I think Australian love them for that...


Compare that to someone like Downer... he has family wealth... he is only there cause his family probably own half the adelaide hills... (figuratively speaking)


----------



## wayneL (26 November 2007)

On Downer:

I think somehow, that disastrous episode as opposition leader has caused him brain damage. I used to be very impressed with him before then. His performances in parliament were sterling. 

Since that "leadership" though, the guy has turned into a total muppet. He should be taken out to the back paddock and put down.

Abbot & Andrews: OMG!! 

Hockey: Beazley revisited.

Turnbull is their only hope in the foreseeable future, but is the leadership a poison chalice at this point? I think it really could be. 

For now they need a fall-guy. IMO


----------



## Broadside (26 November 2007)

wayneL said:


> Hockey: Beazley revisited.
> 
> Turnbull is their only hope in the foreseeable future, but is the leadership a poison chalice at this point? I think it really could be.
> 
> For now they need a fall-guy. IMO




You are spot on...maybe Hockey can fulfil that role, he comes across as a good bloke and down to earth like Beazley, not PM material.  He can hold the line for 3 years and then have Turnbull/Bishop bring him the bacon in the following election.  

Does the Lib party need a strategist?


----------



## skint (26 November 2007)

Broadside said:


> Does the Lib party need a strategist?




Probably be better off going with Dorothy to the Wizard of Oz and asking for a brain, a heart, some courage and like Dorothy, the way home!


----------



## Rafa (26 November 2007)

Broadside said:


> You are spot on...maybe Hockey can fulfil that role, he comes across as a good bloke and down to earth like Beazley, not PM material.  He can hold the line for 3 years and then have Turnbull/Bishop bring him the bacon in the following election.




that makes a lot of sense...


----------



## Aussiejeff (26 November 2007)

Broadside said:


> You are spot on...maybe Hockey can fulfil that role, he comes across as a good bloke and down to earth like Beazley, not PM material.  He can hold the line for 3 years and then have Turnbull/Bishop bring him the bacon in the following election.
> 
> Does the Lib party need a strategist?





Nooo! Wrong strategy....

Using the Strategy Of Perverse Logic (TM), while they have Labor under the gun of the Senate, they should firstly elect the muppet Tony Abbott - he will be an abject failure and will get turfed out within 6 months, never to be seen again. Having to work under Abbott as leader for that short time will generate great sympathy from electors who can only ever imagine what that dreadful experience would be like. 

THEN, having garnered some sympathy, they can safely mount up with Republican Turnbull at the helm, who, after the debacle of Abbott will be confident of appearing to be a genious and saint-like in comparison!

Easy-peasy, really...

LOL


----------



## Broadside (26 November 2007)

Aussiejeff said:


> THEN, having garnered some sympathy, they can safely mount up with Republican Turnbull at the helm, who, after the debacle of Abbott will be confident of appearing to be a genious and saint-like in comparison!
> 
> Easy-peasy, really...
> 
> LOL





aaahhh, the Latham - Rudd strategy!


----------



## Aussiejeff (26 November 2007)

Broadside said:


> aaahhh, the Latham - Rudd strategy!




Precisely, grasshopper......


----------



## Julia (26 November 2007)

Aussiejeff said:


> Nooo! Wrong strategy....
> 
> Using the Strategy Of Perverse Logic (TM), while they have Labor under the gun of the Senate, they should firstly elect the muppet Tony Abbott - he will be an abject failure and will get turfed out within 6 months, never to be seen again. Having to work under Abbott as leader for that short time will generate great sympathy from electors who can only ever imagine what that dreadful experience would be like.
> 
> ...



Now there's an idea with merit.  Anything to despatch Tony Abbott into oblivion for ever, even if it does take three years.  Could backfire though.
He would have to be the worst possible choice for the Libs.

Brendan Nelson is ineffectual and prone to stuff-ups.
Joe Hockey imo could only serve the same purpose as Abbott above, but he seems rather too decent a bloke to be sacrified in this way.
Alexander?  Oh, please, no.  He has failed once.  We just don't need a further demonstration of his petulant whining.

Paul Keating in "The World Today" on ABC Radio provided his usual amusing commentary on the various contenders.  His choice was Julie Bishop.


----------



## skint (26 November 2007)

Julia said:


> Now there's an idea with merit.  Anything to despatch Tony Abbott into oblivion for ever, even if it does take three years.  Could backfire though.
> He would have to be the worst possible choice for the Libs.
> 
> Brendan Nelson is ineffectual and prone to stuff-ups.
> ...




I think Julie Bishop is more likely to take the deputy position behind Turnbull as leader. Turnbull has the higher profile, but I guess that all changes when they become leader. It''ll be interesting to see where the power base lies within the Liberal party, now that the vaccuum is growing. Howard, Costello, Vaille and Brough are all gone. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ruddock and Downer shoot through before too long. If the routing of Howard was the main ccourse, watching so many others drop like flies is dessert. How sweet it is!


----------



## numbercruncher (26 November 2007)

The Liberal Partys "Oil Security" and "Jet Fighter" expert Brendon Nelson has now joined the leadership battle.

Maybe they should decide the winner in a nice fair paint ball match or a telivised WWF tournament or something ?


----------



## SevenFX (26 November 2007)

numbercruncher said:


> The Liberal "Jet Fighter" *expert* Brendon Nelson has now joined the leadership battle.




Ahah....???
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/10/29/2074087.htm


----------



## numbercruncher (26 November 2007)

Yes its a joke isnt it SevenFX, that pathetic decision cant even be rolled back can it ?

I reckon that purchase in just part of a glorified protection racket !
ie/

Dubbya to Howard/Nelson - You buy our crappy old planes and we will promise to protect you from the badguys.

Howard/Nelson - Sure thing Dubbya your holiness, how much can we pay you for these flying slabs of Iron, our hole in the ground economy has lots of excess cash now.

Dubbya - Just give me a blank cheque till the JSF comes out my humble servants.

Howard/Nelson - Thankyou sir.


----------



## greggy (26 November 2007)

Aussiejeff said:


> Michael Kroger and Joe Hockey are youngish, with somewhat "forceful" personalities. Might be the go for the Libs to have a punt on a newbie....? (it seems to have worked for Maxine!)
> 
> The worst part about Costellos resignation is the complete lie he gave to his supporters last night. How could he lie straight in bed after offering them some hope? Not only that, but his shell-shocked electorate will now have to go back for a by-election. Don't be surpised if the Lib replacement candidate gets hammered by the Labor candidate this time around....
> 
> AJ



Michael Kroger isn't even in Parliament.  I met him a number of years ago. I found him to be rude and arrogrant.  He is also very conservative.  
I live in the Higgins electorate and don't like the idea of having to vote again soon.  If Costello isn't serious about serving a full term then he shouldn't have stood in the first place. I still thnk that he'll leave politics and be offered numerous directorships  in the private sector.


----------



## 2020hindsight (26 November 2007)

skint said:


> Probably be better off going with Dorothy to the Wizard of Oz and asking for a brain, a heart, some courage and like Dorothy, the way home!




"Toto, something tells me we're not in Kentucky anymore, - in fact - we've found the real OZ !"


----------



## Broadside (26 November 2007)

skint said:


> I agree with Keating's comments that Costello was the most indolent and unimaginative treasurer this country has seen. Keating made the bold initiatives such as floating the dollar, deregulating the financial markets and proposing to the Reserve a 2-3% inflation target. No such moves by Costello. He just happened to be fortunate enough to be around during the massive global boom. A drover's dog could have run surpluses in that climate. I do think he's being realistic though. If he assumed the leadership, he wouldn't have had it for long with the likes of Turnball looming in the wings.
> Below is an article by Ross Gittens of the SMH, that does  a good job of dispelling some of the economic myths that have been peddled by the coalition.
> 
> 
> http://business.smh.com.au/rubbish-leaders-spread/20071123-1ch3.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1




Earth to skint, the Libs inherited a massive deficit and debt when they came to power.  They got the economy through the Asian meltdown 10 years ago and the 9/11 global slowdown.

They introduced GST when the ALP lacked the guts to do so and reduced personal tax thresholds.

The resources boom is a recent phenomenon, the last 4 years.

But victors write history so let the revisions begin......


----------



## greenfs (26 November 2007)

It is very sad that little (No GST) Johnnie wouldn't hand over to PC after the last election as I personally believe that he would have done *a much better job as PM *than little Johnnie, whom I always regarded as a fool's fool. Johnnie only got away with it because he had good advisers, something by the way which PM Kruddy & the Labour Party will not have.

To those soothsayers that say that the Libs cannot win next time, all I can say is tha you are either too young or suffer from amnesia as the Labor Party in govt duly advised by ex-Union stooges will send us backwards as a country/economy at a zillion miles an hour.

The only positive thing little Johnnie did for me was make me laugh big time when he bowled the cricket ball right onto his own foot instead of down the other end of the pitch. Personally, that little event to me summed him up big time.

Costello like Keating would have made a great PM.


----------



## 2020hindsight (26 November 2007)

greenfs said:


> Costello like Keating would have made a great PM.



Interesting comparison 

I reckon the two of them arguing toe to toe in parliament were the greatest entertainment ever, lol !!  - both brilliant on the floor of the house.


----------



## greggy (26 November 2007)

2020hindsight said:


> Interesting comparison
> 
> I reckon the two of them arguing toe to toe in parliament were the greatest entertainment ever, lol !!  - both brilliant on the floor of the house.



Both are very arrogant and want power at any cost.  At least Keating had the guts to challenge Hawke whilst Costello lacked guts.


----------



## 2020hindsight (26 November 2007)

greggy said:


> Both are very arrogant and want power at any cost.  At least Keating had the guts to challenge Hawke whilst Costello lacked guts.



IMO - in the end Costello was too polite mate 
just MO of cors - 

I mean both Costello and Keating were able to produce evidence of "agreements to abdicate in favour of the other" -

and Hawke was more inclined to honour a "gentleman's agreement" that was Howard. (IMO again)


----------



## Prospector (26 November 2007)

Today my man Pyne has said he will be Deputy Opposition Leader; just one slight impediment - he hasn't actually won his seat yet!    What a dag.


----------



## 2020hindsight (26 November 2007)

numbercruncher said:


> I reckon that purchase in just part of a glorified protection racket !
> ie/
> 
> Dubbya to Howard - You buy our crappy old planes and we will promise to protect you from the badguys.........
> ...



Just thinking aloud - as you are nc lol

But I have sometimes wondered if Costello would hav been far more reserved in his support for GWBush - could it possibly be (? speculation time) that that is why Costello was held back from top job?


----------



## explod (26 November 2007)

greggy said:


> Both are very arrogant and want power at any cost.  At least Keating had the guts to challenge Hawke whilst Costello lacked guts.





The truth lies in the fact that he never had sufficient numbers, the ambition of others held to Howard.  Howards great trick was to have a number of ambitious camps, one in particular was Abbot then having Turnbull come along at the right time was a master stroke.

Howard had the knack of keeping everyone guessing and off ballance within his own Cabinet and with the public.  If ever something a  bit sticky came up he would create an emergency or have an excercise with black men coming out of helicopters with the Opero house and harbour bridge in the background.

The old lesson of chivilary in the dark ages, have one or two knights in shining armour ride through town now and again and all the peasants would continue to work dilegently for the King.

Suckers.


----------



## misterS (26 November 2007)

Tragedy for Australia, only insofar as there is now no chance at all of the country being run by Abbott and Costello...would have attracted great foreign press.

I still miss Keating, we wasted him to have that little fellow just gone come and reap the rewards of Keating's real economic and social re-structuring.  Not really hateable though, not in the way Malcolm and his oleagenous crew were, although he was probably getting there with Workchoices makt frie.  

At least Rudd seems very smart - even if, sadly, I felt bored after hearing just one half of one speech, and with him apparently in full voice, too with victory and all.  

Kind of consoled with his previous mistake about the tax rate.  Don't see why every PM should be an economist or treasury wannabe. Sick of dry little economists of all persuasions having the last word.  

Imagine leaders given to stirring speeches like Churchill or Kennedy giving a tinker's cuss about every pissy little economic statistic. 

There's still a few things need doing in the country and the world generally -and they will be apt to cost a few quid.


----------



## 56gsa (26 November 2007)

Not that I'm his number one fan, but I feel sorry for Peter C - would have been interesting to see how he faired as PM...  remember his brother is a man of the cloth and chair or something of world vision - so there's a bit more to Peter I think than just 'australia's longest serving treasurer'

i think it could be safely said pete was fairly knifed by a bitter and  increasingly self-absorbed PM (what was his beef with costello anyway - maybe its because pete had such a silver spoon ride into politics - never on the backbench - that johnny i've-had-to-struggled-out-from-the-sodden trenches couldn't handle giving pete the ultimate prize

by the way do you think that the battle for bennelong will become compulsory reading in school's history cuuricula?

now on turnbull.. lets not get carried away by the result in his electorate - in 2001 king won it on primary's, turnbull stuggled in 2004 because king ran against him after being booted out...  if i'd been alert to this i think i could have made some money on the TAB - what were the odds for turnbull winning??


----------

