# Essendon - Supporter Support



## Duckman#72 (14 April 2007)

AAAAARRRGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We were 48 points up!!!!!

   :angry: 

In 2006 Essendon lost 9 games by 3 goals or less!!!!! 

2007 was supposed to be different   !!!!! Doesn't look like it.

Anyway Mrs Duckman says I'm not to swear in front of the ducklings so I've created this %^&* thread to let off some %^&*$#@ steam after each stinkin match. Here's hoping I don't have to %&*@ use it very often this %^&*season.

God if you're watching (I personally think he logs in as Tech) any other &*$% club but please, please, please not $%^& *Carlton* (and Collingwood is no better by the way!!!!)

A really,really,really ruffled
Duckman


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## sandik17 (14 April 2007)

I was watching the game today Duck, and thought that it wouldn't be a good afternoon for any little Essendon Fans vocabulary!  Infact I thought it would be a better idea for the Don's fan to watch it alone this week!  
Good on Mrs Duckman for her stance by the way.
In all seriousness though I do feel for you...albeit an exciting ending, it wasn't the way I would have liked it to finish either! (nor my little bomber fan!)
ps.  Roll on ANZAC day....


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## chops_a_must (14 April 2007)

Spare a thought for us long standing Freo members! Lol!

At least Essendon supporters know what success is like.

Anyway, I thought I'd bring out this thing I did a few years back. The slogan for their 10th year was "Ten Years of Passion". Their membership campaign had the slogan, "Do You Have The Passion?" And during the standard piss weak season, I tinkered with it. I think it is fitting to display it once again:







I tell you what. I think Freo is the cause of most mental illnesses in WA. If you are in WA, don't barrack for Freo, and have a mental illness. There IS something very wrong with you. Lol!


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## doctorj (15 April 2007)

Enough said 

Seriously though, tipping is a nightmare this year.  I'd have been better of tipping who I thought was going to lose so far.


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## bel532 (15 April 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> AAAAARRRGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We were 48 points up!!!!!
> 
> :angry:
> 
> ...




Why can't Essendon and Sheedy learn from their mistakes, as this has happened before with the Blues. What agony for a Bomber supporter. 

Those who don't learn from their mistakes are bound to repeat them!


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## Duckman#72 (15 April 2007)

bel532 said:


> Why can't Essendon and Sheedy learn from their mistakes, as this has happened before with the Blues. What agony for a Bomber supporter.
> 
> Those who don't learn from their mistakes are bound to repeat them!




I know, I know......Kevin ....I love him and hate him.

You just have to hope that he knows what he is doing. We came back stronger in 2000 after losing the "unloseable" final in 1999.

A fair portion of the team is still young and developing. The pleasing thing for me was the pain and hurt the players were in after the game. Last year losing became normal. THe young players need to suffer before they will become great players.

But that doesn't stop supporters from thinking we could be waking up this morning 3-0. 

As for whether Sheeds could have stopped the loss - yes he could have by blocking the Carlton forward line but that's not his style. His argument is why should I defend. Keep attacking and get the temp back on Essendons terms. Unfortunately it didn't work yesterday. Essendon didn't get back on top.

Chops a Must - I can't know what it is like to be a Docker fan!!!!


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## dhukka (15 April 2007)

Great for the Blues fans yesterday though, what a comeback from more than 50 pts down. Once again Essendon snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.


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## constable (15 April 2007)

hey duck, hope your mrs duckman is going well? mrs constable is doing well now (going to be a mr constable!) and due the 18/8.
just posting to tell you that essendon suck  !
name your price anzac day.....ok we'll call it a slab then!
hot pies come and get your hot pies!


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## YELNATS (15 April 2007)

dhukka said:


> Great for the Blues fans yesterday though, what a comeback from more than 50 pts down. Once again Essendon snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.





The Blues have a penchant for great comebacks, who can forget the 1970 grand final against Collingwood, 43 points down at half time and then won the game (I was there!)


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## constable (15 April 2007)

YELNATS said:


> The Blues have a penchant for great comebacks, who can forget the 1970 grand final against Collingwood, 43 points down at half time and then won the game (I was there!)




Who can remember? (dont forget to top up you super yelnats  ) this was b4 i was born and my hatred of carlton was passed thru the womb!!!!!!!!


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## Sean K (15 April 2007)

I was at the game yesterday and it's been a long time since I walked away from the G absolutley gutted. Perhaps it was because of the expectation built up over the first two rounds. Perhaps it's because Friviola is just so.....um.....annoying!!! That bullsh!t, extravegant, over the top, salute to himself after he kicks a goal is just so, un Australian it hurts!! He should be playing soccer IMO. aaaaahhhhhh!!!!!


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## Duckman#72 (15 April 2007)

constable said:


> hey duck, hope your mrs duckman is going well? mrs constable is doing well now (going to be a mr constable!) and due the 18/8.
> just posting to tell you that essendon suck  !
> name your price anzac day.....ok we'll call it a slab then!
> hot pies come and get your hot pies!




Yes thanks Constable - Mrs Duckman is going great. Starting to get some back pain now - but plenty of kicks. It was pretty active during Grey's Anatomy tonight. Might be a girl!!

As for Anzac Day - bring it on. Carlton might be a bogey side for us but we'll have your guys covered!!!  

How about a carton of James Squire?

As for you Kennas - what a game to be at!! I was gutted and I was sitting 2200km away!!! You're right - the expectation from the first two games went to the head - and possibly to those of the players!!! Started believing Hirdy's top 4 spin  

Duckman


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## nomore4s (15 April 2007)

kennas said:


> I was at the game yesterday and it's been a long time since I walked away from the G absolutley gutted. Perhaps it was because of the expectation built up over the first two rounds. Perhaps it's because Friviola is just so.....um.....annoying!!! That bullsh!t, extravegant, over the top, salute to himself after he kicks a goal is just so, un Australian it hurts!! He should be playing soccer IMO. aaaaahhhhhh!!!!!




lol, I know 2 fairly young (about 18yo) Bombers supporters from athletics and they were bragging about how well they were going this year after the first 2 games and were talking about finals. I told them not to get carried away after only 2 games, looking forward to seeing them on Mon.
I know what it's like to let expectations run wild as I'm a hawks supporter, lol


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## Sultan of Swing (15 April 2007)

nomore4s said:


> I know what it's like to let expectations run wild as I'm a hawks supporter, lol




Me too! We had a good win today though, although it was only the Roos... and we're currently sitting in eighth. Should we be getting excited yet??   

Anyone else here got a 'Dream Team'? This is my fourth year doing that. Next year we should start an ASF league. : I think it has a lot of similarities to share trading.


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## nomore4s (15 April 2007)

Sultan of Swing said:


> Me too! We had a good win today though, although it was only the Roos... and we're currently sitting in eighth. Should we be getting excited yet??
> 
> Anyone else here got a 'Dream Team'? This is my fourth year doing that. Next year we should start an ASF league. : I think it has a lot of similarities to share trading.




lol, give it a few more years I think, got some good young players.

I've got a Dream Team as well, struggling a bit this year, didn't devote much time to it, too busy with my shares.


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## >Apocalypto< (16 April 2007)

with that last poor poor inexcusable loss to carlton on sat I dont blame the fans leaving!: 

also that blew my 8/8 in the footy tips!

*Go the Saints!*


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## constable (16 April 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> Yes thanks Constable - Mrs Duckman is going great. Starting to get some back pain now - but plenty of kicks. It was pretty active during Grey's Anatomy tonight. Might be a girl!!
> 
> As for Anzac Day - bring it on. Carlton might be a bogey side for us but we'll have your guys covered!!!
> 
> ...




Sounds lovely, would that be the pale ale, pilsener or hop theif? (i just rang dan murphys too see what i was getting into  )
I think i've had this once or twice when ive been at the oldman's , not a bad brew from memory.
Anyrate you and your bombers are on!


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## constable (22 April 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> Yes thanks Constable - Mrs Duckman is going great. Starting to get some back pain now - but plenty of kicks. It was pretty active during Grey's Anatomy tonight. Might be a girl!!
> 
> As for Anzac Day - bring it on. Carlton might be a bogey side for us but we'll have your guys covered!!!
> 
> ...




ouch ! is the bet still on if the magpies can only field half a side?  
no we'll be right , if the pies get up you guys will have nowhere to hide!


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## Sean K (23 April 2007)

constable said:


> ouch ! is the bet still on if the magpies can only field half a side?
> no we'll be right , if the pies get up you guys will have nowhere to hide!



I think we've got more out that you Constable! Just like Collingwood, comming out with excuses before the game's even run.  

*GO BOMBERS!!!! *


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## Duckman#72 (23 April 2007)

constable said:


> ouch ! is the bet still on if the magpies can only field half a side?
> no we'll be right , if the pies get up you guys will have nowhere to hide!




Gday Constable!!!  Looking forward to it.

These ANZAC clashes are so different to the other home and away rounds. Form and position on the table goes out the window. 

Having said that...........Bombers by 6 goals!!! 

Carn the Dons!!!!!!!!!

Duckman

Can anyone fill me in on Jetta's injury?


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## bel532 (23 April 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> Gday Constable!!!  Looking forward to it.
> 
> These ANZAC clashes are so different to the other home and away rounds. Form and position on the table goes out the window.
> 
> ...




I'll be conservative, Bombers by four goals, see you there!

Jetta has 'groin soreness 'and has been ruled out of the Anzac Day match.

And we have two 'hamys' Winderlich and Welsh. Why so many, so early in season?


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## chops_a_must (23 April 2007)

bel532 said:


> And we have two 'hamys' Winderlich and Welsh. Why so many, so early in season?



Essendon have had a bit of trouble with hamstring injuries over the last few years. There must be something wrong with their leg weights programme. And it's interesting that Luke Darcy is now getting Whiteside needles done as well. Maybe Essendon should try it. It's worked for some big name players.


It's a pity the events of the last week have overshadowed some pretty serious news here in the west. Three Subiaco players contracted golden staph from the changerooms at Arena Joondalup during the last round. One of these players, who was touted as being a shoe in as an AFL recruit in the coming year, is likely to lose his foot because of it.

And onto something else I've heard... Four Corners are likely to do a special on the drug taking culture at the West Coast in the near future. It is likely that it is not purely about the recreational drug taking either. From my understanding it will uncover some explosive allegations as to performance enhancing drug use at the club recently and in the past. It is likely that the recent summons of Chris Judd and John Worsfold to Melbourne, is in regards to this, and not for other things reported.

I know for a fact that the Eagles were on steroids in the early 90s. The weights programme that they were on, was and is very good, but not any other athletes have gotten as big as they were on that exact programme. It is an unfair point though, because at that stage there was no testing, and I'm sure they weren't the only club dabbling.

However... after the removal of Ken Judge, and the appointment of John Worsfold as coach, John came back into contact with his links from the early 90s. If you remember, the eagles really weren't doing very well early on in the piece under Woosha, and then all of a sudden they got very big, very quickly. This also coincided with certain medicos coming back to Perth after stints at Brisbane. I believe there may be allegations made about this time period in particular.

Unfortunately, due to the Coasters having control of the media here, I'm sure you guys in the east will be the first to know anything. And after all, the Eagles management have managed to hide the fact that special K had been a convicted criminal since at least 2004. Something that isn't widely known in the east.

But surely, it's time for Nisbett and Gooding to go. I mean, Gooding can't even run his own company, how on earth is he supposed to run the eagles? And what a joke... them paying for the rehab for Cousins. What a disgrace and a kick in the face for any family suffering with a real drug problem. Not some side effect of an inflated ego.

And something in The Fremantle Herald over the weekend I found funny:


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## bel532 (24 April 2007)

chops_a_must said:


> Essendon have had a bit of trouble with hamstring injuries over the last few years. There must be something wrong with their leg weights programme. And it's interesting that Luke Darcy is now getting Whiteside needles done as well. Maybe Essendon should try it. It's worked for some big name players.
> 
> 
> It's a pity the events of the last week have overshadowed some pretty serious news here in the west. Three Subiaco players contracted golden staph from the changerooms at Arena Joondalup during the last round. One of these players, who was touted as being a shoe in as an AFL recruit in the coming year, is likely to lose his foot because of it.
> ...




Is this all true or are you having us on? I'll have to send you my wife's hospital bill (she is a WC supporter) if she has a stroke after I show her your email.


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## Duckman#72 (25 April 2007)

Morning All

I see fine weather forecast for Melbourne today!!!

Good luck Constable!!! 

Anyone heard of any late outs for Essendon?

Duckman


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## constable (25 April 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> Morning All
> 
> I see fine weather forecast for Melbourne today!!!
> 
> ...




Thankyou Duckman looking forward to a great game, beautiful weather here and in melb! 2 slabs on the line now as my brother's an essendon supporter!
Im either going to be drunk or poor!!


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## justjohn (25 April 2007)

up north we to have our traditional Anzac clash ,the Mighty St.George Dragons V Eastern Suburbs Roosters .These two glamour clubs have this year struggled to be at the bottom of the table everyone is under pressure for a win today coaches ,players & supporters .Finally we have had some rain in NSW so today should be a close scrappy game   SO GO YOU DRAGONS:alcohol: :twak: :arsch: :bananasmi


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## paperclip (25 April 2007)

Tight  

cheers PC


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## constable (25 April 2007)

WOOOOHOOOO!









well done to both teams ...... must admit i was packing myself after the first 5 minutes! But at the end of the day collingwood had the fitness and Dale Thomas was the standout.


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## paperclip (25 April 2007)

Fought in the true tradition is should have been  

cheers PC


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## chops_a_must (25 April 2007)

constable said:


> well done to both teams ...... must admit i was packing myself after the first 5 minutes! But at the end of the day collingwood had the fitness and Dale Thomas was the standout.




I've done some research, and I think I've found out what Dale Thomas was doing with himself before he started playing for Collingwood:






Funny that he also hits like a girl as well. : 

But seriously, as always, it was a good game to watch even for those without a vested interest in the game (apart for secretly barracking for injuries, fights and suspensions etc. if we have to play one of the teams soon. : )

Some of those Essendon youngsters look fantastic though. Very exciting to watch them play I must say.


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## constable (25 April 2007)

chops_a_must said:


> I've done some research, and I think I've found out what Dale Thomas was doing with himself before he started playing for Collingwood:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




well if he was knocking around with a girl like that i wouldnt hold it against him!


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## chops_a_must (25 April 2007)

constable said:


> well if he was knocking around with a girl like that i wouldnt hold it against him!



Haha. I was actually insinuating he was Elliot Reid from Scrubs before he played for Collingwood.

Anywayz, my mob are going to be playing your mob on the 1st of June, and I'll be at the G, amongst the toothless, to see it. Should be fun!


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## Gspot (25 April 2007)

w







chops_a_must said:


> Essendon have had a bit of trouble with hamstring injuries over the last few years. There must be something wrong with their leg weights programme. And it's interesting that Luke Darcy is now getting Whiteside needles done as well. Maybe Essendon should try it. It's worked for some big name players.
> 
> 
> It's a pity the events of the last week have overshadowed some pretty serious news here in the west. Three Subiaco players contracted golden staph from the changerooms at Arena Joondalup during the last round. One of these players, who was touted as being a shoe in as an AFL recruit in the coming year, is likely to lose his foot because of it.
> ...




Wow, Freo supporters have alot to do with their clubs sad, pathetic history.
In 'law of attraction'.........like attracts like. So the bitter, deranged dorkers will always be, with supporters like chops.


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## Duckman#72 (25 April 2007)

Congrats Constable - too good today. Luckily you made a bet with a Bomber not a Blue - you'll get your carton. 

Do I get to keep a six pack? - we did win the first quarter!!!


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## chops_a_must (25 April 2007)

Gspot said:


> w
> 
> Wow, Freo supporters have alot to do with their clubs sad, pathetic history.
> In 'law of attraction'.........like attracts like. So the bitter, deranged dorkers will always be, with supporters like chops.




So does this mean that the majority of Eagles supporters are drug takers? I think not.

Just relaying information that Four Corners have been hassling associates of mine. That is all.

And if you can't have a laugh as an Eagles supporter, then heaven help you. As can be seen on the first page of this thread, I have no trouble in poking fun at myself or my team...


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## Sean K (26 April 2007)

I was at the game yesterday and walked away a little disappointed, of course. More disappointed that the new depth that I thought was at the club didn't really come through. The past few games, when someone was down, someone else stood up, but not this week. Delivery into the forward line was shabby at times, and Mal Michael should not be playing on the oppositions tallest and fastest forward. What is Sheedy thinking? He's got to leave Fletcher on the best forward I think. Bradley back to Bendigo for the rest of the year I think. He's a clutz, but the potential is there. Johnson needs to start earning his significant pay packet. Paddy Ryder in the ruck is great to watch. Incredible standing leap. Davey's pace is astonishing. Should still be top 8 I think.


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## constable (26 April 2007)

kennas said:


> I was at the game yesterday and walked away a little disappointed, of course. More disappointed that the new depth that I thought was at the club didn't really come through. The past few games, when someone was down, someone else stood up, but not this week. Delivery into the forward line was shabby at times, and Mal Michael should not be playing on the oppositions tallest and fastest forward. What is Sheedy thinking? He's got to leave Fletcher on the best forward I think. Bradley back to Bendigo for the rest of the year I think. He's a clutz, but the potential is there. Johnson needs to start earning his significant pay packet. Paddy Ryder in the ruck is great to watch. Incredible standing leap. Davey's pace is astonishing. Should still be top 8 I think.




My brother thought sheed's biggest mistake was not having Lucus up forward.
Both sides squandered oppurtunities you guys should have been 4 goals up at the first change. And Rocca wasted so many goals in front that i have trouble calling him a proffessional full forward.
All in all though the game lived up to its reputation as the biggest home and away game and the scoreline was fairly tight all day . I know there was a lot of yelling and screaming coming from both sides of the loungeroom i was at!

Ps Duckman i'll pm my adress so you can post off a voucher or you come down to ballarat and help me drink it!


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## Sodapop (26 April 2007)

Hey Duckman!!! You seen all your FULL EPISODES on youtube??? Good times...


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## trading_rookie (26 April 2007)

> I was at the game yesterday and walked away a little disappointed




Well to all you bombers fans expect more disappointment this Saturday night at the SCG...


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## constable (1 May 2007)

Thankyou Duckman , fiddy bucks gratefully received!  ( great to be able to trust aust post !)
I'll give you a chance to get it back in round 16!!
cheers c


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## nomore4s (2 May 2007)

The bombers vs the mighty hawks this week. Could be a close game (hopefully with the hawks just sneaking past the post).

Go the Hawks!!!!


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## Duckman#72 (2 May 2007)

constable said:


> Thankyou Duckman , fiddy bucks gratefully received!  ( great to be able to trust aust post !)
> I'll give you a chance to get it back in round 16!!
> cheers c




No problems Constable - don't forget to buy Mrs Constable some non-alcoholic bubbly!!! 

As for the Bombers against Hawks.  They will want to put in a performace better than that against the Pies. That was Essendon of 2006. Rubbish.

The most disappointing thing is realising that maybe we haven't progressed very far from last year at all. Essendon had no right being within 40 points of the Pies last week. It was only the inepitude of the Pies that kept us in it. Both teams played like they won't trouble Top 8.

I'm still very disappointed about it. 

What was the match committee thinking selecting Bradley and Bolton for the ANZAC day clash. Bolton hasn't cemented a spot in the firsts for 7 years - is he the big name player you need to bring in? As for Bradley - they want him to be Fletcher, I would love for him to be Fletcher....but he's not.

And would it have been too difficult for Kevin to have come up with a ruckman for the afternoon? Laycock wasn't even on the ball for most of the afternoon and yet he was stuffed!!

And wasn't it great to see the boys revert back to the tried and true game plan of 2006 - bomb it high and long into the forward line into the waiting arms of a defender. After the 50th fruitless kick into the forward line would it have been a good idea to say.......try and spot someone up.......have a forward lead to the ball perhaps?

Is it a good idea having the leading goalkicker in the comp playing CHB?

And tell me...why could Collingwood run the game out so strongly after playing in the bog on the previous Saturday while we were totally buggered from playing inside the Dome?

Too much is left for too few. Fletcher you are a champion, Hirdy tried hard, so to McVeigh. Maybe I'm being to hard on the boys - yes they did try........but the disappointing thing is the manner in which they were defeated. 

Firstly, they lost to a team that on paper they should have beaten, secondly their decision making and game plan was poor and finally they were carrying players that made you say "I don't think that kid is going to make it". All those issues were supposed to have been left behind in the 2006 season.

We will see on Saturday.

Duckman

(I've calmed down now - you should have seen the spray I wrote on ANZAC day!!)


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## idribble (3 May 2007)

YELNATS, then you'll love this!  A couple of pies supporters left at half time in the 1970 GF and because they couldn't wait to get down to their local drinking hole in Mordialloc, (the name of the pub escapes me it's so long ago!) for some loud and well deserved celebrations.  They travelled by train and when they burst in through the doors yelling and screaming, the game was over ........... They didn't know the pies had lost!

A true story!


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## Sean K (3 May 2007)

nomore4s said:


> The bombers vs the mighty hawks this week. Could be a close game (hopefully with the hawks just sneaking past the post).
> 
> Go the Hawks!!!!



Dreaming!

I'll be there with my Bombers duffle coat on. 

*GO DONS!*


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## nomore4s (3 May 2007)

kennas said:


> Dreaming!
> 
> I'll be there with my Bombers duffle coat on.
> 
> *GO DONS!*




lol, we'll see. Won't be happy if we lose, I know way too many bombers fans.

Hopefully Sheeds does us a favour and plays Lucas at CHB at Johns at FF again, lol(I doubt it ).

Carn the hawks.


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## Duckman#72 (4 May 2007)

nomore4s said:


> lol, we'll see. Won't be happy if we lose, I know way too many bombers fans.
> 
> Hopefully Sheeds does us a favour and plays Lucas at CHB at Johns at FF again, lol(I doubt it ).
> 
> Carn the hawks.




I won't be online this weekend Nomore4's. Hopefully the teams will play football similar to their mid 80's form - (say the 1985 grand final )

Good luck 

Duckman


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## Sean K (4 May 2007)

I've tipped Hawthorn to win tomorrow for 2 reasons:

1. If they win, then I get the tip right and i will be moderately happy.
2. If they lose, I will be very very happy.

So, there is a greater probability of being happy this weekend than if I had tipped Essendon and we lose.

Like last week!  

GO BOMBERS!!!

See you at the game. I'll be the pissed one on the floor in the Bull Ring Bar.


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## jj0007 (4 May 2007)

typical essendon camper.  Hedging bets both ways haha.
Love sheed's comments this week about blocking.  Everyone does it...its a tactic employed by all forward structures.  The trick is to do it without being deemed a sheperd.

Who is umpiring this weekend?  If its goldspink or vozzo then hawks need not turn up.


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## Love Zn (4 May 2007)

As long as it's not the same umpires from Anzac Day (Vozzo, Jeffrey and McInerney) I don't care.  I'm still fuming over some of those frees  

I haven't tipped Essendon correctly this year  Hopefully tommorrow is the first


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## nomore4s (5 May 2007)

:bananasmi :bananasmi :bananasmi 

How good is Lance Franklin :bowdown:

And didn't Brown do a great job on Lucas.

On a positive note for the bombers how well is Froggy Davey going, that goal he kicked was awesome. When Alwyn and Aaron played up here (Darwin) they were good players but I never rated them in the same class as the Motlop boys(played for the same club as the Motlops) or the Clarke brothers but now they're a class above, shows what hard work and determination can do.


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## Duckman#72 (5 May 2007)

nomore4s said:


> :bananasmi :bananasmi :bananasmi
> 
> How good is Lance Franklin :bowdown:
> 
> ...




Once again pathetic. My expectations have officially been altered today - we are bottom four without question.

2006 isn't as far behind us as we would like to think.

Of the games I've watched this weekend, I can't see a team that we are likely to beat.

Once again too many passengers, too slow, poor skills, poor decision making, lack of depth. Our backline didn't have a hope today with Hawthorn bringing it in so quickly.

I watched Collingwood play tonight - with something like 12 players who are 22 and under. At this stage you would have to say they are light years ahead of us. 

We need to bring Hislop, Gumbleton and Houli very quickly. 

Our team is loaded with people like Mark and Jason Johnson, Heffernan, Camporeale and Bolton.  Our midfield was absolutely spanked again today. Our ruck division is almost non-existent with Hille out.

Ryder is very promising. So to is Davey and Jetta. Bradley appears to be a waste of time. Laycock seems to be worse than he was 3 years ago!!! Courtney Johns does about 3 good things a game. Lucas tries hard and Fletcher always gives his all...........but our depth is paper thin. 

Take Lloyd and Hille out and we didn't look like winning. Lovatt isn't doing enough - needs much more consistency. And I'm beginning to question Mal Michaels commitment.

It's going to be a another long season. I don't even want to play Richmond because I've seen them play this year and they've been unlucky. 

Duckman


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## nomore4s (6 May 2007)

Duckman I think Essendon are paying the price for poor recruiting over the last 10 years or so. They haven't invested in enough youth over the years and the ones they have invested in haven't repayed that investment at all. Too many times recycled players have been drafted for 1-2 year stints without really adding anything to the club. Mal Michael is a good example of this, what is he really going to offer to the club in the long term? He really only has another couple of years left in him if that. IMO picking players like that up is good if you're close to making/winning a GF and just need a few good players to round out the squad, but doesn't add much value for a rebuilding side - it just fills cracks in the short term only.
The bombers midfield is the real problem, just too slow(both legspeed & decision making) which constantly puts them under pressure & causes constant turnovers, which in turn puts both the forward & backlines under immense pressure.
I think it could be a long couple of seasons, but for all you bombers fans I hope I'm wrong.


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## shares (6 May 2007)

I hate this, but i'm going to have to agree with you. Essendon seem to have absolutely NO midfield. At the end of yesterday Sheedy put Mal Michael up in the forward 50, I reckon he should try mixing up his midfield instead. 

My dream bomber midfield:

ryder, davey, fletcher, michael, jetta and mcveigh :


----------



## nomore4s (6 May 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> I don't even want to play Richmond because I've seen them play this year and they've been unlucky.
> 
> Duckman




Well Duckman, after todays display by Richmond I think you guys can beat them. They were terrible.


----------



## YELNATS (6 May 2007)

nomore4s said:


> Well Duckman, after todays display by Richmond I think you guys can beat them. They were terrible.




Beaten by a better side on the rebound from some unsatisfactory footy in the last 2 weeks. Go Cats from here on!!!


----------



## Sean K (7 May 2007)

kennas said:


> I've tipped Hawthorn to win tomorrow for 2 reasons:
> 
> 1. If they win, then I get the tip right and i will be moderately happy.
> 2. If they lose, I will be very very happy.
> ...



 

Hawthorn looked alright. 

Essendon had some passengers. 

I got my tip right.


----------



## Duckman#72 (7 May 2007)

nomore4s said:


> Well Duckman, after todays display by Richmond I think you guys can beat them. They were terrible.




Thanks Nomores!!!!!! Bring on Round 9!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually - the Bombers generally match up well against the Kangas. And the good thing is that the Kangas are only half the team when they are favourites. The underdog "Shinboner" spirit only kicks in when they are down and out. The last three wins might take the edge off them..........(hopefully).   

If they get Lloyd back they could be a chance at the Dome. 

Duckman


----------



## nomore4s (7 May 2007)

YELNATS said:


> Beaten by a better side on the rebound from some unsatisfactory footy in the last 2 weeks. Go Cats from here on!!!




lol, there was no doubt the cats were the better side, by about 150pts. Geelong have got West Coast this week, so I guess we'll find out just where the cats are at.


----------



## shares (7 May 2007)

it doesn't look like Lloyd will play this week


----------



## Duckman#72 (10 May 2007)

shares said:


> it doesn't look like Lloyd will play this week




Anymore news on Lloydy? Playing or not?

Cheers
Duckman


----------



## nomore4s (10 May 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> Anymore news on Lloydy? Playing or not?
> 
> Cheers
> Duckman




As far as I know - No he's not


----------



## Love Zn (10 May 2007)

Not





Fletcher up forward  

Unfortunatley I think the Roos will do us


----------



## Duckman#72 (10 May 2007)

Love Zn said:


> Not
> 
> Fletcher up forward
> 
> Unfortunatley I think the Roos will do us




Thanks Lovey

There is a God!!!!!!!!!!! Bolton OUT!!!!!!!

But what the ....... is Courtney Johns doing in the backline? Give him a go in the forward line - if he can't cut it P/O Jack. Fletcher is too valuable in the backline

Duckman


----------



## nomore4s (10 May 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> Thanks Lovey
> 
> *There is a God!!!!!!!!!!! Bolton OUT!!!!!!!*But what the ....... is Courtney Johns doing in the backline? Give him a go in the forward line - if he can't cut it P/O Jack. Fletcher is too valuable in the backline
> 
> Duckman




lol maybe you should post that in the is there a god thread.

I don't think Fletcher will line up at FF, will probably be swapped with Johns I'd say. Johns is a good kick just needs to get hold of it more often, last week they said all of his goals have come from set shots, needs to rectify this to improve his game imo.


----------



## Duckman#72 (11 May 2007)

nomore4s said:


> I don't think Fletcher will line up at FF, will probably be swapped with Johns I'd say. Johns is a good kick just needs to get hold of it more often, last week they said all of his goals have come from set shots, needs to rectify this to improve his game imo.




Yes - agree with that Nomore's. I will be interested to see Houli play - is he in the mould of Jetta?


----------



## Duckman#72 (12 May 2007)

Going into the first break down 2.9 to 4.0!!!! How would Kangas have responded to four goals down at quarter time. 

That's the Bombers all over - could have, should have..................

But all in all a gutsy performance by the boys. Again ruck and midfield divisions well down. But they had every chance to win. 

Just cannot get over the line. Like last year they are not getting pounded but just lacking the consistency, skills and polish to get them over the line. 

Not a good omen for Kennas.

Cheers Duckman


----------



## nomore4s (12 May 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> Going into the first break down 2.9 to 4.0!!!! How would Kangas have responded to four goals down at quarter time.
> 
> That's the Bombers all over - could have, should have..................
> 
> ...





Kicking for goal was terrible, missed alot of (easy) opportunities throughout the whole game and as a consequence never really put any scoreboard pressure on the Roos.


----------



## shares (13 May 2007)

Next week: Essendon VS Brisbane

We might have a chance with this game :


----------



## Duckman#72 (2 June 2007)

You little beauty - we are winning ugly ...but we are winning!!!!!!

But we could kick straighter!!!

Cheers

Duckman


----------



## GoYouGoodThing (3 June 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> You little beauty - we are winning ugly ...but we are winning!!!!!!
> 
> But we could kick straighter!!!
> 
> ...




Funny thing is I thought this was a stock forum not a bloody footy one.

Yeah Essendon won...by paying off the umpires. Bloody Disgrace. 

Hopefully the Swannies get their act together now.

GO SWANS!


----------



## Duckman#72 (3 June 2007)

GoYouGoodThing said:


> Yeah Essendon won...by paying off the umpires. Bloody Disgrace.
> 
> Hopefully the Swannies get their act together now.
> 
> GO SWANS!




What goes around comes around.

People in football have long memories - can anyone remember the name of the fullback who wacked James Hird in the face in the 1996 prelim final? The cut needed 10 stitches and took Hird off the ground long enough for Swannies to win by ........1 point!!

I see your Brownlow medalist was at it again - taking people out from behind. It is somewhat disapointing to see that he has joined Diper, Plugger and Libba as the dirtiest medalists in recent history. If you are going to hit someone at least do it from the front. 

I feel sorry for Spider tonight - basically gave away his teams 2 points with his 3/4 time efforts.

Duckman


----------



## Kauri (3 June 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> What goes around comes around.
> 
> 
> I feel sorry for Spider tonight - basically gave away his teams 2 points with his 3/4 time efforts.
> ...




   I didn't understand that... I thought that after the siren sounded the ball is dead... after all you can't take a mark after the siren.????


----------



## Damuzzdu (3 June 2007)

Kauri said:


> I didn't understand that... I thought that after the siren sounded the ball is dead... after all you can't take a mark after the siren.????




No, the ball was in flight thus the "play" is still alive and the umpires were 100% right to award the point. It is exactly like if the the pack went for a mark on the goal line and the ball flew off hands and went over the goal line for a point.

Everitt basically had a brain failure as the siren went, which in hindsight has cost his side a draw. Still a good game to watch.

But what is it with the Sydney crowd booing James Hird during the final qtr hey???.  Now I'm not a bombers supporter at all, but Hird is a 100% champion and he plays the game very fair. You don't boo a champion like Hird. I follow Collingwood and Bucks gets the same treatment every time we play the Power in Adelaide. Some supporters are really just plain bais, I guess. 

Cheers
Muzz


----------



## Duckman#72 (3 June 2007)

Damuzzdu said:


> Everitt basically had a brain failure as the siren went, which in hindsight has cost his side a draw. Still a good game to watch.
> 
> But what is it with the Sydney crowd booing James Hird during the final qtr hey???.  Now I'm not a bombers supporter at all, but Hird is a 100% champion and he plays the game very fair. You don't boo a champion like Hird. I follow Collingwood and Bucks gets the same treatment every time we play the Power in Adelaide. Some supporters are really just plain bais, I guess.
> 
> ...




With you all the way Muzz. 

Booing Hirdy was pretty poor form. They don't come much more "best and fairest" than James and Buckley. Despite the treatment dished out to them by taggers they are 100% ball players. I would add Simon Black to that list.

Often late in a players career when the reflexes, skills and condition drop away players can sometimes get frustrated and end out their careers as cranky (read players of the man). Unfortunately Voss ended up a bit like this. He made the right decision retiring.

Considering it was James' final game at the SCG - the crowd should have been a little more respectful. I must admit I've rarely seen a chorus of boos whenever Hirdy touched the ball before last night. 

The temptation is to say that the way he is playing he has another couple years in him. I think it's just wonderful that he has hit a purple patch in his last year. Let him go out this year while he is still more than just "holding his own" - still a key player.

Duckman


----------



## Duckman#72 (3 June 2007)

After the bagging I gave him a couple of weeks ago - sorry Mark Bolton. You played solid last night. Now the aim is to do that consistently.

Some really good signs last night. Hille will crucial to the Bombers later this year. His rucking and "round the ground" work has been very good the last few weeks.  

Houli looks great - very composed and great skills. Davey was a bit ragged last night - but that was probably to be expected. He is used to running free and causing having on the larger MCG and Dome. The SCG seemed to restrict and confine him a little.

But the big one is Paddy Ryder!!! How good is this kid. He looks like a 25 year old 120 game veteran. As Sheedy said a couple of weeks ago to Caroline Wilson "Not a bad apprenticeship, to have Mal Michael on one shoulder and Dustin Fletcher on the other." 

Winderlich is moving forward with each game. Will be very handy to also get Jedda back. Adam McPhee is also playing with gusto. The backline looks strong. We just need to tweak the midfield. Again last night it was a case of "bomb" away to try and get goals. Based on "inside 50's" Essendon should have taken the game by 30 points. We need to get smart on how to deliver the ball to the forward line against all types of defensive structures. 

I thought Paul Roos comments after the game were a bit of a "dummy spit". The commentators said it was one of the best games of footy this year, pressurized, tough and willing. And then Roos comes out and says that the "rule changes" are frustrating everyone. The only gripe that Swans can have is that Adam Mcphee took the ball out of bounds before kicking to an unmarked player that resulted in a goal. That didn't have anything to do with rule changes. Barry Hall was disallowed a goal after a push in the back - but it was there - even Big Baz wasn't too upset with that call. Essendon had something like 17 inside 50s to 5 in the third quarter - Essendon didn't win by accident.  Roos should have been more gracious than to blame umpiring interpretations.  

Overall - really gusty win over a team that admitted didn't play it's best footy but that was due in part to the pressure applied by the Bombers.  

Duckman


----------



## hangseng (3 June 2007)

Not a Swans or Essendon supporter.

Booing a champion such as James Hird was in very poor taste. Great career and player.

but.....(I can see why swans supporters feel robbed)

Allowing a clear out of bounds to go past thus resulting in a goal to Essendon detracts from this win. If players can be brought before a tribunal and banned due to a video, then Essendon should have the 4 points taken from them.

Thumbs down on both counts.


----------



## Duckman#72 (3 June 2007)

hangseng said:


> If players can be brought before a tribunal and banned due to a video, then Essendon should have the 4 points taken from them.




I agree Gong. Take the four points from Essendon.

But while we are reviewing incorrect decisions - can we please play the "over the shoulder" tackle to Scott Lucus late in the second quarter from 30 metres out directly in front. That will give us the 4 points back.  

There are about 50 free kicks given a game. Some are there, some aren't and some should be there but aren't paid!! I would hate for us to become like Gridiron and Rugby League that gets bogged down in Third Umpires and Video Refs. Let the game flow - there will some mistakes for sure but as I said on an earlier post - "what goes around comes around".

Besides, what would Collingwood have had to complain about if the video ref said Wayne Harms was inside the boundary line!!!

Essendon was up by 1 point this week but I can assure you that we have had our share of small losses.


----------



## Kauri (3 June 2007)

Being a Dockers trajic the result didn't bother me too much, but I was amazed at the ball grazing the padding on the post on the swans last score. It was so high up that Sandilands on stilts wouldn't have been able to reach that high....     Is there a standard height for the padding???


----------



## Duckman#72 (3 June 2007)

Kauri said:


> Being a Dockers trajic the result didn't bother me too much, but I was amazed at the ball grazing the padding on the post on the swans last score. It was so high up that Sandilands on stilts wouldn't have been able to reach that high....     Is there a standard height for the padding???




Hey Kauri - your guys are a basketcase. My condolances. I picked them to win on Friday night - and they damn well could have!! They just dominated the first half but could not put any scoreboard pressure on. Couldn't believe the Freo could melt like that. Collingwood has a smart side - but it helps when you are playing one that isn't!!

They are the perfect side for always putting the rider - Should win "on paper!!!"

Duckman


----------



## hangseng (3 June 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> I agree Gong. Take the four points from Essendon.
> 
> But while we are reviewing incorrect decisions - can we please play the "over the shoulder" tackle to Scott Lucus late in the second quarter from 30 metres out directly in front. That will give us the 4 points back.
> 
> ...




 Good call, I agree. Essendon wins


----------



## Kauri (3 June 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> Hey Kauri - your guys are a basketcase. My condolances. I picked them to win on Friday night - and they damn well could have!! They just dominated the first half but could not put any scoreboard pressure on. Couldn't believe the Freo could melt like that. Collingwood has a smart side - but it helps when you are playing one that isn't!!
> 
> They are the perfect side for always putting the rider - Should win "on paper!!!"
> 
> Duckman




   Duckman... Couldn't agree more...we call them the Gunners.... always gunna win, don't quite manage... Things might change next year when...oops..if... they move Connolly on and put in Sumich with Jacko as assistant.. both passionate Freo boys. And as for bringing in Harvey to "toughen" Freo up, they have 17 tribunal appearances this year already under their belt .  .. Sorry, don't mean to Hijack this thread.
     Cheers
             Kauri..


----------



## Sprinter79 (3 June 2007)

The post height, thickness and padding are regulated, unlike the actual field size (why don't they make the SCG bigger while they're rebuilding the stands???)

The Sydney Swans supporters are the worst in the league (I have witnessed most supporters in the league, including Collingwood ones). They don't know the rules (generally) and will boo anything ANYTHING that goes against the swans. The only reason people are swans supporters is because they are winning. It's cool to be a swans supporter huh :

By the way, great win to the Bombers.


----------



## GoYouGoodThing (3 June 2007)

Sprinter79 said:


> The post height, thickness and padding are regulated, unlike the actual field size (why don't they make the SCG bigger while they're rebuilding the stands???)
> 
> The Sydney Swans supporters are the worst in the league (I have witnessed most supporters in the league, including Collingwood ones). They don't know the rules (generally) and will boo anything ANYTHING that goes against the swans. The only reason people are swans supporters is because they are winning. It's cool to be a swans supporter huh :
> 
> By the way, great win to the Bombers.





Nice generalisation there.

I have been a Swans supporter since my old man used to take me to the games as a 4 year old. So I guess I have been cool my whole life.

If we are going to go on and on about umpiring decisions saying Essendon still would have won etc etc then that is pathetic.

One decision was CLEARLY incorrect and there was no need for interpretations. The ball was out.

Oh well the Dons can have the 4 points, pity I don't think it will help your season nor your coach in the end.


----------



## Sprinter79 (3 June 2007)

GoYouGoodThing said:


> One decision was CLEARLY incorrect and there was no need for interpretations. The ball was out.




I agree there. FWIW I'm not an Essendon supporter


----------



## Duckman#72 (3 June 2007)

GoYouGoodThing said:


> If we are going to go on and on about umpiring decisions saying Essendon still would have won etc etc then that is pathetic.
> 
> One decision was CLEARLY incorrect and there was no need for interpretations. The ball was out.
> 
> Oh well the Dons can have the 4 points, pity I don't think it will help your season nor your coach in the end.




Come on GYGT - get your own Swans Supporter Support thread and stop hijacking the Bomber one!!! 

The ball was out of bounds - get over it. LOL  

No one is "going on and on about the umpiring decisions" except the Swans!!!! 

My take on Sheeds is that he will be coach again next year if he wants it. 

Duckman


----------



## GoYouGoodThing (3 June 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> Come on GYGT - get your own Swans Supporter Support thread and stop hijacking the Bomber one!!!
> 
> The ball was out of bounds - get over it. LOL
> 
> ...




I think you will find every media article/segment printed/aired since has said something about that farcical decision. I can guarantee you they ain't all Swans supporters

Personally I reckon you still jacked off about 1996.

Sheeds will NOT be coach next year, mark my words.


----------



## Duckman#72 (3 June 2007)

GoYouGoodThing said:


> I think you will find every media article/segment printed/aired since has said something about that farcical decision. I can guarantee you they ain't all Swans supporters
> 
> Personally I reckon you still jacked off about 1996.
> 
> Sheeds will NOT be coach next year, mark my words.




LOL's - um....hate to tell you.....I'm not upset about anything!!!

You're throwing all the punches here!!!

And I watched ABC's Offsiders this morning  - they made very little reference to the "farcical decision" you refer to. However they did make particular mention to Spida Everitt's punch for a behind and Buchanan's miss with 25 seconds to go that would have won the game!!!

And it's only little but.......it can't be a "farcical decision" when the umpire didn't blow his whistle. It must have been a "farcical non-decision"!!

Duckman


----------



## GoYouGoodThing (3 June 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> LOL's - um....hate to tell you.....I'm not upset about anything!!!
> 
> You're throwing all the punches here!!!
> 
> ...




On the contrary....they umpire would have made a decision not to blow his whistle....


----------



## Gspot (4 June 2007)

Friday night football coming up. Sheedy no doubt will be getting the boys fired up to physically, put he Eagles off their game.
Lets hope the umpires are on to it.
 Go the Mighty EAGLES! Undeniably the powerhouse of the AFL.


----------



## Lachlan6 (4 June 2007)

Its always great when you have players (McPhee) sharing a few beers in the outer before passing to McVeigh for one of the goals of the year. Yep that makes up for all those heart renching moments last year. Bring on West Coast.


----------



## YELNATS (4 June 2007)

Gspot said:


> Go the Mighty EAGLES! Undeniably the powerhouse of the AFL.




How can that be said when they were put to the sword by the team currently 2nd on the ladder, a couple of weeks ago (the cats)


----------



## nomore4s (4 June 2007)

YELNATS said:


> How can that be said when they were put to the sword by the team currently 2nd on the ladder, a couple of weeks ago (the cats)




lol, and what about the team that put both of them to the sword, the mighty hawks


----------



## Duckman#72 (4 June 2007)

Gspot said:


> Friday night football coming up. Sheedy no doubt will be getting the boys fired up to physically, put he Eagles off their game.
> Lets hope the umpires are on to it.




Actually one of the highlights of the Essendon season so far has been their aggression towards the ball. Their tackling and pressure has been brilliant and I don't believe we have had one report this year yet. Have we had a report yet anyone? 

They just need to remember to play good, hard, tough football. Often in the past - with players like Solomon - the target was defined as the man.

Patrick Smith wrote a great article in The Australian today under the heading "Roos Bitterness rubbing off on fans". Very similar to my thoughts written on this forum last night. I quote Smithy on the Swans crowd...."Their shameful performance when Essendon captain Matthew Lloyd spoke after accepting the Marn Grook trophy was reflective of a crowd incapable of sportsmanship and with no respect at all for the indigenous theme the game was meant to celebrate. Sydney no longer warrants the honour of playing in this match."  Very close to your thoughts Sprinter.

Yes Nomores - the loss Essendon suffered to Hawthorn looks better each week. Hawks are killing me in the footy picking!!!


----------



## nomore4s (4 June 2007)

lol, Duckman I was actually talking about the Hawks beating Geelong and the Eagles in reply to Yelnats post, but now that you've raised it.

I actually have to admire the fight in the Bombers this year and the job Sheeds has done, cos lets be honest the list they have is pretty suspect in a number of areas, mainly the midfield as previously discussed. Of course Hirdy having such a good year is helping out in this area atm.

And you've got to start picking the hawks Duckman (They'll no doubt start to lose when you do, so maybe it's best if you don't


----------



## GoYouGoodThing (4 June 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> Patrick Smith wrote a great article in The Australian today under the heading "Roos Bitterness rubbing off on fans". Very similar to my thoughts written on this forum last night. I quote Smithy on the Swans crowd...."Their shameful performance when Essendon captain Matthew Lloyd spoke after accepting the Marn Grook trophy was reflective of a crowd incapable of sportsmanship and with no respect at all for the indigenous theme the game was meant to celebrate. Sydney no longer warrants the honour of playing in this match."  Very close to your thoughts Sprinter.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


----------



## Duckman#72 (4 June 2007)

GoYouGoodThing said:


> Either they were booing Matthew Lloyd or the umpires who had a smirk on their face after the game.
> 
> Patrick Smith is a columnist employed to write sensationalistic articles. He is an absolute peanut and would not know the first thing about footy.




OK then ................TAXI!!!!!!:screwy:

Patrick Smith has been involved in newspapers since his first job as copy boy in 1971. Since then he has been chief AFL writer for Herald Sun, The Age and The Australian. He was won back to back AFL Media Association awards for Best Football Writer and has also won a Walkley Award for his sports writing. 

You and I might not agree with what he writes about...   but don't say that doesn't KNOW football!!!

Duckman


----------



## nomore4s (4 June 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> Patrick Smith wrote a great article in The Australian today under the heading "Roos Bitterness rubbing off on fans". Very similar to my thoughts written on this forum last night. I quote Smithy on the Swans crowd...."Their shameful performance when Essendon captain Matthew Lloyd spoke after accepting the Marn Grook trophy was reflective of a crowd incapable of sportsmanship and with no respect at all for the indigenous theme the game was meant to celebrate. Sydney no longer warrants the honour of playing in this match."  Very close to your thoughts Sprinter.






GoYouGoodThing said:


> Either they were booing Matthew Lloyd or the umpires who had a smirk on their face after the game.
> 
> Patrick Smith is a columnist employed to write sensationalistic articles. He is an absolute peanut and would not know the first thing about footy.




lol, I think you just proved his point.


----------



## GoYouGoodThing (4 June 2007)

Of course we are bitter. Sydney was robbed by a professional boundary umpire that did not do his BLOODY job.

Oh well there is always next week. CMON SWANS!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Duckman#72 (8 June 2007)

Carn the Dons!!!!!!!!

Another fortunate win......but we'll take them anyway we can!!! What goes around comes around.

Last year we lost numerous games by lesss than 3 goals - good to see some coming back.

Keep them going Sheeds. I think you may have locked yourself in for another contract.

Duckman


----------



## Lachlan6 (8 June 2007)

The best win I have ever been to. SOOOOOO Good to beat West Coast. Thought we were out of it, then the boys played brilliantly in the second half. David Hille was the hero. Bring on the Power!!!


----------



## Sean K (25 July 2007)

Sheedy sacked.

When we were in the 4 he was a God, now banished for losing the last few. 

Sad end to an incredible era. Hopefully he goes out in style as he deserves.


----------



## Jockstar73 (25 July 2007)

get yourselves down to the Lexus Centre and pick up a membership to a proper club !!!


----------



## bigdog (25 July 2007)

There are too many Essendon old boys (coaches) out there to select from with too much to lose!!!

Thomson, Harvey and Dahiher


----------



## petervan (25 July 2007)

He might get a job as an assistant at Port Power where he could end his career with a bit more success


----------



## Sean K (25 July 2007)

bigdog said:


> There are too many Essendon old boys (coaches) out there to select from with too much to lose!!!
> 
> Thomson, Harvey and Dahiher



O'Donnell might be a shot. 

Maybe Hird out of far left field. 

Voss can stay away, he's got red hair.


----------



## Rafa (25 July 2007)

petervan said:


> He might get a job as an assistant at Port Power where he could end his career with a bit more success




hehe

poor sheeds...

he did give it his all...
and he training of the next gen of coaches should not be forgotten.
but it was time for generational change.


amazing, 4 coaches gone in 2 weeks.


----------



## Love Zn (25 July 2007)

kennas said:


> Sad end to an incredible era. Hopefully he goes out in style as he deserves.




Sorry but how can you go out in style after being SACKED.  After putting in 27 years at the club and what has done for footy in general, he did not deserve to be sacked.  His contract ran out at the end of this year and he could have simply been told the club will not renew and let the fans give Sheeds a respectfull farewell.

The board was totally disrespectful and as a member the board will not have my support and I hope others feel the same when it comes to voting new board members.


----------



## Sean K (25 July 2007)

Love Zn said:


> Sorry but how can you go out in style after being SACKED.  After putting in 27 years at the club and what has done for footy in general, he did not deserve to be sacked.  His contract ran out at the end of this year and he could have simply been told the club will not renew and let the fans give Sheeds a respectfull farewell.
> 
> The board was totally disrespectful and as a member the board will not have my support and I hope others feel the same when it comes to voting new board members.



Yes, I agree. They could have told him to resign couldn't they? Perhaps he said that he wouldn't so they bit the bullet. 

You are right, no style. 

I'd like to hear the full circumstances before making further judgement.


----------



## Love Zn (25 July 2007)

Have just heard the press conference and feel somewhat better. He wasn't sacked as reported earlier in the morning and will be coaching out the rest of the season, the club will not be renewing his contract.

At least this was more repectful than what happened to the other coaches, which is what you would expect from a loyal servant of the Essendon footy club and a legend of footy.


----------



## Duckman#72 (25 July 2007)

Love Zn said:


> Have just heard the press conference and feel somewhat better. He wasn't sacked as reported earlier in the morning and will be coaching out the rest of the season, the club will not be renewing his contract.
> 
> At least this was more repectful than what happened to the other coaches, which is what you would expect from a loyal servant of the Essendon footy club and a legend of footy.




Yes the media headlines left a lot to be desired - thanks Optus "Sheeds Sacked".

Regardless of what you think of Sheeds it is a sad day for the club. He was a "one and only". Apparently Sheeds has said he has known since January. He has been an absolute marvel for Essendon. He has almost single handedly taken the club from being a suburban Melbourne club to a national heavyweight. He has assured the future of the club.

I just hope the announcement gives the players the lift they need to at least make the eight!! 

In my opinion Sheeds is still one of the best coaches going around and has done a good job with a very suspect list. If Sheeds was in total charge of recruitment then - yep - he had to go. But gee, the players on the current list, and over the past 3 years have been very ordinary. Have a look at Collingwoods list from last Saturday - quality youngsters all over the place.  

Come on Bombers - lift for Sheeds last few games!!

Duckman


----------



## nomore4s (25 July 2007)

End of an era for sure, I think he has done well this year with the list they've got can't see anyone else doing a better job. But like duckman said how did this list get into such bad shape?

I bet the Bombers go  through at least 3 coaches in the next 5 years now , hard act to follow. The bombers will probably make the finals now:eek3:, wonder how the board will feel then.


----------



## Duckman#72 (29 July 2007)

Life, death, taxes and the Bombers giving up an early lead - the FOUR CERTAINTIES IN LIFE!!

Going to be a tough afternoon without Fletcher and WITH Bradley.


----------



## Duckman#72 (29 July 2007)

Very nice win today. At least it keeps them in the race for another week.

Really showed some spirit, heart and maybe more importantly, some good skills today. If we get Hird and Fletcher back over the next couple of weeks, and with Jetta and Houli in the mix to cover for midfield injuries - who knows...the finals might be possible yet.

McPhee, McVeigh,Johnson,Winderlich and Watson were all outstanding , even Dyson. Lloyd was also good early. As fast as Lovett is, I think Essendon are a stronger side wthout him in it. And it pains me to say it but the side looks good without Jason Johnson, Heffernan and Camporeale. If there are midfield injuries they need to bring in Houli, Jetta and later Davey. Bring these kids on. 

Some of Hille's rucking today was exceptional - wasn't his best game "around the ground" but good signs. The defence was brittle at times but remained steadfast at the business end. Lovett-Murray is coming on from injury nicely. Gumbleton had a solid first game and Nash did some great things. Monfries is looking out of sorts (this whole year)  - for a player that looked like being the next captain last year.

But I hate to mention it again but.........Kepler Bradley. Will he be cut at the end of the year? Is he worth persisting with? Gave away two goals today and everytime he goes near the ball it seems like it's 50%/50% as to whether it ends in a turnover. He is obviously playing with 0% confidence. Maybe I'm biased but I have been extremely disappointed with his progress over the past couple of seasons. Is he just a late developer or just never going to make it? I'm thinking that Bolton is a better option in big games like today's!!!!

It is easy to get carried away after wins like today but it goes to the argument that Sheedy still has a lot to offer the club. It is just a matter of working on the list. James Hird said during the week that an essential part of being a coach is ensuring that the players want to win for you. He said "Everytime I've run onto the ground I've wanted to win for Kevin Sheedy". Among his many,many other skills and attributes he still has the confidence and admiration of his players. Has the Board made the right decision?

Regards
Duckman


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## Love Zn (29 July 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> Really showed some spirit, heart and maybe more importantly, some good skills today.




I must have gone to a different game today, didn't see a lot of skill.  But yes they showed spirit and heart.  Amd came away with the 4 points.



Duckman#72 said:


> But I hate to mention it again but.........Kepler Bradley.
> _cut........._
> Is he just a late developer or just never going to make it?




Nope.  He also got MMM's 3 votes for worst on ground.



Duckman#72 said:


> Has the Board made the right decision?




Time will tell.  But I don't look forward to the day that Sheeds is coaching against the Bombers.


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## Duckman#72 (29 July 2007)

Love Zn said:


> I must have gone to a different game today, didn't see a lot of skill.  But yes they showed spirit and heart.  Amd came away with the 4 points.




You better get better seats then, you are missing a fair bit of the game!!

I didn't say they were perfect but don't be such a grouch Lovey.  Some of the in and under work around the clearances was the best they have produced this year. Watson and McVeigh in particular were very slick. Some of Hille's tapdowns were brilliantly executed. I admit we get a better view of this at home.

They still have a lot of work to be done on decision making, kick selection and speed. There are times we look very slow and unsure. Scott Lucas insists on bombing his big left footers into the waiting arms of the defenders. Also Ryder looks more hesitant than in his early games this year. But those issues are not "skills" in the general sense.

Their foot and hand skills are 100% on where they were this time last year. Very few dropped marks that were uncontested. And very few kicks that didn't find targets (whether it was the correct option remains another issue). You can't tell me that the performance today was not more polished and skillful one those of the past two seasons for the Bombers. You are more likely to get a certain amount of skill errors in a closely contested game due to the pressure.

Duckman


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## Duckman#72 (5 August 2007)

I don't know if anyone was watching the AFL footy show on Thursday night, but they showed footage of Sheedy meeting at the house of the Melbourne CEO. He then spoke of the passion and enthusiasm he would bring to the Demons.

They then switched back to Lloydy and asked him if he'd seen it and as club captain what does he think? 

As a supporter it made me sick to watch it, and as was said onABC's Offsiders this morning, "Lloyd was clearly perturbed by it". They also said "It's as if Kevin Sheedy has already moved on". 

The boys might have won for their sacked Bomber coach last week but will they win for the new Melbourne coach this week?

I really hope I'm wrong but I think the guys could have a big loss inflicted today.

Duckman


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## Duckman#72 (5 August 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> The boys might have won for their sacked Bomber coach last week but will they win for the new Melbourne coach this week?
> 
> I really hope I'm wrong but I think the guys could have a big loss inflicted today.
> 
> Duckman




At the moment it is 7 goals to 1 nearing halftime. 

You didn't need 2020 vision to see this happening. Never under estimate the psychology in footy.


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## nomore4s (5 August 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> At the moment it is 7 goals to 1 nearing halftime.
> 
> You didn't need 2020 vision to see this happening. Never under estimate the psychology in footy.




Bad luck Duckman, get that for sacking a coach like Sheedy with the season still to play for. They were/are still a chance for the 8, why the club would do anything to take the focus away from that is stupid imo.

Go the Hawks!!!


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## AussiePaul72 (5 August 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> I don't know if anyone was watching the AFL footy show on Thursday night, but they showed footage of Sheedy meeting at the house of the Melbourne CEO. He then spoke of the passion and enthusiasm he would bring to the Demons.
> 
> They then switched back to Lloydy and asked him if he'd seen it and as club captain what does he think?
> 
> ...




Aaaaaahhhhhhhhh me old mate Duckman ..... i felt i needed to make comment on this thread now ...... i hope you noted how refrained i've been to date .... hey by the way, good prediction for today's game .... spot on!! 

I had to post on here as this weekend signified a milestone in that the Lions leap frogged you guys on the ladder ... hope you guys aren't choking on the dust as we flew past .............(famous last words ... lol)

Seriously though, the Bombers were travelling very well and with the public announcement about Sheeds their focus seems to have gone off playing good football. I think its the worst thing that can happen to a club when off field things interrupt and distract a team that was otherwise going about their business very well and playing good football. Hang in there mate, they WILL bounce back ....

Cheers for now


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## Duckman#72 (12 August 2007)

*Father Time* (as performed by Kevin Sheedy)

Father Time
I couldn't make them wanna play
I couldn't seem to find the words to say
Now I have to live in yesterday

Father Time 
I thought that you were on my side
I thought I could keep our dream alive
I thought I could keep them satisfied 

Father Time
Grant me just another day
I know I can get the boys to play

Father Time 
Don't tell me it's too late
The other coaches - they can wait

Father Time 
Only you can turn the page
And close the curtain on this empty stage
Only you can take my pain away.

(with apologies to Richie Sambora)

The next two weeks will be an eye-opener. Facing a resurgent Carlton and Richmond will show where the boys are. Dropped the bundle big time this afternoon. Kev's departure has been a terrible disruption - and it is a distraction to the real problem at Essendon.....*the poor performing players*. The best players Essendon have are aging and the player depth within the club is probably the weakest of any in the AFL. The whole club including recruiters, scouts and management need to take responsibility for that. Accountability for where Essendon find themselves at the moment shouldn't end with Kev's head.   

 I don't know where we are ..........except 13th with a coach that will not be there next year. 

Duckman


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## nomore4s (12 August 2007)

lol, Duckman

They must've had a really bad second half, I heard a score on the radio just before half time and they were'nt too far behind but ended up getting smashed by 10 goals or so What happened?

Pity I was hoping they made the finals for Sheedy, and threw a bit of egg in the face of the board. I still think the timing of announcing that they were getting rid of Sheedy was poor, the season was still alive, but all the focus has now gone to Sheedy leaving and the supporters attacking the board.


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## chops_a_must (12 August 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> *Father Time* (as performed by Kevin Sheedy)
> 
> Father Time
> I couldn't make them wanna play
> ...




Looked like a very undisciplined performance today I have to say... Almost a rabble at times in the second half.

And at the ground, I'm not sure how it looked on TV, but it seemed as if the Essendon players were giving out a tonne of lip, and that may explain the one sided umpiring display...

But certainly the Bombers didn't play like a team that wanted to be there. Akin to a team just playing out the year. Problems I think. Their psychology isn't healthy and they are unfit to top it off...


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## Duckman#72 (12 August 2007)

chops_a_must said:


> .........and they are unfit to top it off...




Thankyou Chops....exactly what I think. Essendon have been getting run off their feet all season. NOT FIT I made the same comment on ANZAC Day. The week before the Pies played in a ripper in the bog at the MCG, whilst Essendon had a soft game at the Dome. A week later the Pies were running, and running, and running...the Bombers were shot. I can overlook skill errors caused by inexperience and pressure ....but not being fit is unforgivable in this era of professional sport.

As for being a rabble - they have played that way so often this year I think it is their official game plan!!! As for undisciplined - they don't backup, they don't shepherd, they don't run hard enough to create space - all by themselves very little 1%er's but they make a real difference in a tight season. Geelong play in a team for each other, Essendon play in a team with each other.  

Now - slagging off the umps.....they've been doing that all year as well. A couple of special mentions.....Adam McPhee and Andrew Welsh. Both of whom should just concentrate on reducing their free kicks tallys in the first place. 

Nomores - I saw an interview on the weekend of Damien Hardwick. Being an ex Bomber I stopped and listened to him and I must say he speaks very well. Being up in Qld I haven't seen too much of him in that role but based on how he spoke and what he spoke about - he looks a senior coach at some stage for sure......(can we please have him back).   

Duckman


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## chops_a_must (12 August 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> As for being a rabble - they have played that way so often this year I think it is their official game plan!!! As for undisciplined - they don't backup, they don't shepherd, they don't run hard enough to create space - all by themselves very little 1%er's but they make a real difference in a tight season. Geelong play in a team for each other, Essendon play in a team with each other.



Yeah, it reminded me of Freo...

There was one passage of play that stuck in my mind today, where Essendon were running toward the 50 on the subi end half forward flank, and a bomber was just standing beside a team mate and watched him get run down. All that player had to do was take about 3 steps to lay a shepherd and they had an open shot on goal.

Something is really really wrong in the group.


----------



## jtb (13 August 2007)

Don't beat yourselves up too much guys.

I think Solomon and particularly now an unencumbered Harvey have brought the best of Bomber heart and commitment over to us (@ Freo) and I hope they remain for a little while yet.
I was a fervent Bomber fan in my junior days (pre AFL now) and Harv's first game as coach (Adelaide in Adelaide) brought back the blood rush that I had forgotten from my youth.
Even our Collingwood recruits are starting to kick straight
If we are to lose MH (which I think would be poor form) back to the fold I would understand.

On the fitness side - yes I think the closing minutes today said alot.


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## nomore4s (13 August 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> Nomores - I saw an interview on the weekend of Damien Hardwick. Being an ex Bomber I stopped and listened to him and I must say he speaks very well. Being up in Qld I haven't seen too much of him in that role but based on how he spoke and what he spoke about - he looks a senior coach at some stage for sure......(can we please have him back).
> 
> Duckman




lol, no you cannot.:


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## AussiePaul72 (18 August 2007)

G'day Duckman & other Bomber Supporters,
Hard fought win over Carlton this weekend. I didn't see the game but gather there wasn't much to get excited about.... but congrats on the win anyway ... its still worth 4 points no matter how well you win!!
Unfortunately as a Lions supporter we could only manage a draw tonight against the Swans at the Gabba. They probably didn't even deserve a draw considering Sydney's inaccuracy. However, the Lions never gave up and slugged out a draw with Jonathon Brown converting a shot from about 60m out in the last minute. It does keep our finals hopes alive but realistically i think we will probably finish 9th with St Kilda making the 8. I am very encouraged by the Lions second half of the season though going forward in the next few years. Anyway, GO THE LIONS .....you never know which way the results will go these days!!!


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## Duckman#72 (18 August 2007)

AussiePaul72 said:


> G'day Duckman & other Bomber Supporters,
> Hard fought win over Carlton this weekend. I didn't see the game but gather there wasn't much to get excited about.... but congrats on the win anyway ... its still worth 4 points no matter how well you win!!
> It does keep our finals hopes alive but realistically i think we will probably finish 9th with St Kilda making the 8.




Hi AussiePaul

Close games are always exciting!!  Especially when the side wins after being 36 points down in the 2nd quarter. Its ironic that had Essendon held onto its 50 point lead in round 3 this year against Carlton we would still be talking finals this year. Skill errors and lack of pace was noticeable again today, however at least the boys appeared to dig deep and show some heart (or the cynical people might suggest the Blues threw it for the draft pick).

As for Brisbane - I blame myself for picking them in the footy tipping this week.  They were unlucky to lose Jamie Charman early, but then again they were lucky that Sydney didn't kick straight. They should have blown Brisbane away by the midpoint of the 2nd quarter. Brisbane will miss Chris Johnson when he retires. I thought the "young Lions" in general didn't play very well tonight. Didn't like the pressure Sydney out on them. The experience players like Notting, Black, Copeland, Brown and Johnson pulled them out but Richettelli, Moody, Sherman and even Merrett had their colours lowered. That's just experience. Very exciting last few minutes - J Brown....you are a star.   

As for Brisbane finishing 9th - probably but a betting man would suggest they will have trouble winning either of their remaining two games. It's pretty tight - they could slip further down yet. Adelaide, Western Bulldogs, Essendon and even Freo are still in the mix for 9th and 10th.  But as you say...anything can happen. 

Call me crazy but I think Kangas might pip Cats this weekend. The Cats looked a little "showy" last weekend at times and I'm predicting a loss sooner rather than later.  

Duckman


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## AussiePaul72 (18 August 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> Hi AussiePaul
> 
> Close games are always exciting!!  Especially when the side wins after being 36 points down in the 2nd quarter. Its ironic that had Essendon held onto its 50 point lead in round 3 this year against Carlton we would still be talking finals this year. Skill errors and lack of pace was noticeable again today, however at least the boys appeared to dig deep and show some heart (or the cynical people might suggest the Blues threw it for the draft pick).
> 
> ...




Hey Duckman..... always enjoy your comments.....I agree with nearly everything you said above .... except (lol) .... I didn't think Black had a good game at all tonight ... however, i guess you just expect him to have a great game every weekend and notice it when he makes a few uncharacteristic errors.
You are exactly right in that there are a lot of teams that could end up that 9th spot....and Brisbane could end up further down the list! I counted on them having a win against Adelaide next weekend down there (you might want to call me crazy now!!) and a loss against the Cats in the final round. However, I agree that the Cats might lose a game soon ..... it would be awesome if it was the one against the Lions!!!! (i know... i know...i'm getting crazier by the minute ......i better end this post fast while i still have an ounce of credability )
Anyway, this great game of ours keeps us all interested with its twists and turns!!


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## Duckman#72 (19 August 2007)

AussiePaul72 said:


> Hey Duckman..... always enjoy your comments.....I agree with nearly everything you said above .... except (lol) .... I didn't think Black had a good game at all tonight ... however, i guess you just expect him to have a great game every weekend and notice it when he makes a few uncharacteristic errors.
> You are exactly right in that there are a lot of teams that could end up that 9th spot....and Brisbane could end up further down the list! I counted on them having a win against Adelaide next weekend down there (you might want to call me crazy now!!) and a loss against the Cats in the final round. However, I agree that the Cats might lose a game soon ..... it would be awesome if it was the one against the Lions!!!! (i know... i know...i'm getting crazier by the minute ......i better end this post fast while i still have an ounce of credability )
> Anyway, this great game of ours keeps us all interested with its twists and turns!!




Yeah you're probably right about Black...made a few errors....but I thought he played better than Power. Wasn't his finest game. But a bad game from Black is still pretty good!!


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## Sean K (19 August 2007)

Are we still a finals chance?


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## AussiePaul72 (19 August 2007)

kennas said:


> Are we still a finals chance?




Sorry Kennas, not sure who you support, but all teams except Carlton, Melbourne & Richmond theoretically have a chance of making the finals. 

IMHO (take it with a grain of salt!!!) I think Freo, Adelaide, Bulldogs, Bombers & Lions will also miss out


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## Duckman#72 (19 August 2007)

kennas said:


> Are we still a finals chance?




Hi Kennas

Don't mind AussiePaul. When responding to a question " Are we still a chance in the finals?" on a thread titled - "*Essendon - Supporter Support*" he still thinks you might be referring to Brisbane......ha ha 

Come on Aussie.....give it up. There are teams other than the Lions you know.  I'll give you credit....you would match it with the most parochial supporters in Melbourne!!!

To answer you question.......unfortunately we have now slipped into the "mathematical chance" area of the draw. In all the years I have followed football - this appears to be the kiss of death and I haven't seen anyone make it.

We need to win against Richmond at the G and West Coast in Perth....and then rely on other results to go our way. Realistically, there is now only one  
position up for grabs now that Collingwood won this weekend.

Cheers

Duckman


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## AussiePaul72 (19 August 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> Hi Kennas
> 
> Don't mind AussiePaul. When responding to a question " Are we still a chance in the finals?" on a thread titled - "*Essendon - Supporter Support*" he still thinks you might be referring to Brisbane......ha ha
> 
> ...




Hey Kennas & Duckman,

My apologies .... as you know one eyed Lions suupporter here!!! Didn't quite use my head.

Hey duckman, you must have known that the title of this thread is just advertising for comments from other team supporters ...lol

I still gave an unbiased view of who i thought would miss out on the finals though .... give me credit for that too  .... including the Lions missing out!!

Ahhhhhh i just enjoy floating a few harmless comments sometimes..... and getting some great bites!! All part of the fun of supporting your own team 

Cheers for now!

ps. Kennas, if the bombers aren't living up to your expectations, just let me know cos i know a team that has a bright future in the next few year ...rofl .... 

pps. Duckman, i'll give you a break on this thread ...


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## nomore4s (19 August 2007)

AussiePaul72 said:


> ps. Kennas, if the bombers aren't living up to your expectations, just let me know cos i know a team that has a bright future in the next few year ...rofl ....




Yeah, the mighty hawks, lol


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## Sean K (19 August 2007)

Paul, are you an ex Fitzroy supporter? I find them the most one eyed Brisbane supporters around! LOL.

I'm not sure if we deserve to be in the finals, but I am happy with the year we've had anyway. Lots of positives I think with a few of the young guys really showing some potential.

How about this for a rumour: 

Hird to coach!


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## AussiePaul72 (19 August 2007)

nomore4s said:


> Yeah, the mighty hawks, lol




G'day nomore4s,

Well .... not quite what i had in mind ...... make that two teams then!!


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## Sean K (19 August 2007)

AussiePaul72 said:


> G'day nomore4s,
> 
> Well .... not quite what i had in mind ...... make that two teams then!!



Paul, by Toowoomba I guess you're a genuine banana bender, unless you are working out at Oakey...

What's Voss up to? He's dreaming thinking he can coach straight away. Only Hird could do it!!


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## AussiePaul72 (19 August 2007)

kennas said:


> Paul, are you an ex Fitzroy supporter? I find them the most one eyed Brisbane supporters around! LOL.
> 
> I'm not sure if we deserve to be in the finals, but I am happy with the year we've had anyway. Lots of positives I think with a few of the young guys really showing some potential.
> 
> ...




G'day Kennas, no i'm not an ex Fitzroy supporter. Always lived in Qld and supported local teams! In fact i grew up as a league supporter (Bronco's of course) and still like league but these days prefer AFL given a choice.
I've always followed the Lions since they came into the competition ... although there wasn't a lot to cheer about in the early years 
I've been very impressed with the way the Lions have performed so soon after coming off the high of the multiple premierships & then losing some very key experienced players in the following seasons. I thought they may have ended up in the wilderness for a few years but i think Leigh Matthews and the support staff have done a wonderful job with some very inexperienced young players. Even though they haven't got the consistency yet, the signs are very promising.
Wow ..... Hird to coach the Bombers!! Where did you pick up that rumour from?
As i said to Duckman .... i thought the Bombers were travelling quite well this season until the public announcement that Sheeds was gone at the end of the season .... unfortunately it seemed to take all the focus off their game ... and i feel for the supporters ... was poorly handled in my opinion ... but the upside is that the Bombers will certainly bounce back!


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## AussiePaul72 (19 August 2007)

kennas said:


> Paul, by Toowoomba I guess you're a genuine banana bender, unless you are working out at Oakey...
> 
> What's Voss up to? He's dreaming thinking he can coach straight away. Only Hird could do it!!




Live and work in Toowoomba .... been here for 11 years now .... originally from Glasshouse Mountains area north of Brisbane. Maroon supporter through and through!!

What do you mean by Oakey? Thats still part of Qld.....


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## Sean K (20 August 2007)

AussiePaul72 said:


> What do you mean by Oakey? Thats still part of Qld.....



Most people from Oakey are from interstate I think.


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## Duckman#72 (26 August 2007)

OK ......so games are not all going Essendon's way at the moment. We really needed Brisbane to win last night (where were you AussiePaul). The pies getting up was good.  

But ...IF WE WANT IT ENOUGH....we could still be a chance.

Now...taking it one week at a time....we need to get over Richmond today (which won't necessarily be a given).

If we do that we will be sitting 9th going into the last round.

Then looking at next week: There are three games of interest.

Firstly Essendon v West Coast ........Essendon must win that one.

Secondly Collingwood vs Adelaide. If Adelaide win on Friday night then they will be in front of Essendon on percentage and we will need the third game to play out.

Sydney v Hawthorn - played on Sunday......it could transpire that Sydney will go into this match knowing that it needs to win to make the 8. If they don't Essendon will grab eight spot. Luckily Hawthorn will have something to play for as well because if WC get done by Bombers then Hawthorn could be playing for second spot and a home final. Better to meet WC in Melbourne than Perth.

Then again if the bombers are going to beat them in Perth in Round 22 how hard can they be?  

Plenty of ifs, buts, maybes, shoulda, woulda, coulda, if my Aunt was my Uncle type of predictions made here but..............have to keep the dream alive a little longer.

Come on boys, do it for Sheeds and Hirdy. 

Duckman


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## AussiePaul72 (26 August 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> OK ......so games are not all going Essendon's way at the moment. We really needed Brisbane to win last night (where were you AussiePaul). The pies getting up was good.
> 
> But ...IF WE WANT IT ENOUGH....we could still be a chance.
> 
> Duckman




G'day Duckman ... arrived in the US today...so will miss this weekends and next weekends matches ... first thing i did was look up how the Lions went ... BUGGER ... oh well, they can still make it ... however extremely unlikely and i have to concede probably 10th spot is where they will likely finish now. We had to win that game against Adelaide to be in the hunt!
Anyway, good luck to the Don's ...they really need a lot of key results to go their way ... but stranger things have happened????
By the way, was the Lions/Crows game a good game? I heard Brown was kept to 1 solitary goal.
Cheers for now!


----------



## Duckman#72 (26 August 2007)

AussiePaul72 said:


> Anyway, good luck to the Don's ...they really need a lot of key results to go their way ... but stranger things have happened????
> By the way, was the Lions/Crows game a good game? I heard Brown was kept to 1 solitary goal.
> Cheers for now!




Have a good time over there.

Was it a good game? Not really - Brisbane was thumped in the midfield. Crows dominated possession and the corridor and managed to get huge numbers back. Brown was double and triple teamed most of the night. And the delivery to Brown (what there was of it) was pretty sub standard. As good as the Crows were in defence they were pretty ordinary in attack. They should have won by 50 points but poor options and poor kicking let them down. So many times did they just bomb it into the forward line.

One thing that the Crows do well is run.......they just run opponents into the ground. McLeod, Johncock were very solid for Crows and Notting was good for Brisbane.


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## AussiePaul72 (26 August 2007)

Duckman#72 said:


> Have a good time over there.
> 
> Was it a good game? Not really - Brisbane was thumped in the midfield. Crows dominated possession and the corridor and managed to get huge numbers back. Brown was double and triple teamed most of the night. And the delivery to Brown (what there was of it) was pretty sub standard. As good as the Crows were in defence they were pretty ordinary in attack. They should have won by 50 points but poor options and poor kicking let them down. So many times did they just bomb it into the forward line.
> 
> One thing that the Crows do well is run.......they just run opponents into the ground. McLeod, Johncock were very solid for Crows and Notting was good for Brisbane.




Thanks for the description .... not one of their better games by the sound of it .. but they also had a few out.
Just had a look at the AFL website .... Dogs and Hawkes in a real battle at present .... and Port leading the Cats  ..... maybe it'll be the Power that slip into 2nd spot?? .... a loss by the Hawkes could see them lose a few places i'm guessing
Anyway, time to get to bed here in LA with the lovely sound of planes taking off and landing in the background  ...at least its only for tonight!!


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## Duckman#72 (18 February 2008)

A good win last night by a very young Essendon!!

Pre-season is mostly a poor indicator for the season ahead, however, having said that - the signs shown by the youngsters was genuinely exciting. 

I have no doubt the Bombers went up to Cararra just looking to blood some kids and to see where they were at. For a team without 14 "season starters" they performed very well. Players like Dempsey, Dick, Lonergan, Houli, Jetta, Hocking, Reimer, Gumbleton(bad injury loss) who don't have more than half a dozen first grade games if any at all.  Remember that they were playing a side containing Copeland, Power, Lappin, Adcock, Notting, Stiller, Sherman etc (in other words..... for the first time in a long time Essendons average age was less than their opponents). Brisbane will look much better with a decent ruckman back. Hille and Laycock were too dominant across the ground and at the clearances.

Well done guys. Good start Matty Knights.... and may it continue well into 2008.  

Duckman


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## Duckman#72 (22 February 2008)

The youngsters do it again. 

A 54 point win over the Doggies tonight. 

Next week will be a tester - playing either St Kilda or Geelong. 

Bring on the season!!!!

Duckman


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## Sean K (23 February 2008)

Crap!!!! I had competing priorities tonight and watching the Bombers was second, unfortunately. Damn!!! Anyway, encouraging. I thought the first few times we took the preseason cup very seriously. Then it just happened to us. And then, it was a distraction. You play to win. Always!!  Turnaround is already spotted....


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## Duckman#72 (2 March 2008)

kennas said:


> Anyway, encouraging. Turnaround is already spotted....




Excellent effort by the boys on Friday night. They had a red hot go and nearly came away with it.

They just needed some cool heads with 1 min remaining. The likes of Fletcher, Lloyd, McPhee and in years gone by Hirdy would have settled things
down in a normal game.

But the kids look exciting. And they look HUNGRY. And to think that people like Lovett, Lovett-Murray, Houli, Jetta and Winderlich weren't playing on Friday. The Bombers may have more depth than we first realised. Sheedy may have been right. 

Anyway - good on them for trying. The season bring much needed renewed hope!!

As a side issue - I hope that the umpires aren't as trigger happy in the season proper. Something like Saints 36 free kicks to Bombers 23. Hopefully the umpires will watch the tape of Monfries dropping on the ball with 52secs to go and use that as the perfect example of diving on ball to kill a contest. 

My pet hate is when a player actually tries to make the play and is first to the ball and the second player holds the ball into him and the play maker gets penalised. It is my opinion that it is the second player that should be penalised for holding the ball.

Duckman


----------



## Sean K (25 March 2008)

How did they look gents?

Sounds good in the papers. 

Lucas is going to be a big loss.


----------



## Real1ty (25 March 2008)

kennas said:


> How did they look gents?
> 
> Sounds good in the papers.
> 
> Lucas is going to be a big loss.




They looked very good kennas, after the first quarter.

North got the jump on us and the umpires gave them a few goals in that first quarter but we hung in there.

Once we got our game going half way through the second quarter, we steamrolled them.
Too quick and too fit, worked hard for each other and lots of great efforts by our younger guys.

Knighter gave the following votes

3: McVeigh
2: Lloyd
1: Watson

Go Bombers


----------



## Duckman#72 (25 March 2008)

Real1ty said:


> They looked very good kennas, after the first quarter.
> 
> North got the jump on us and the umpires gave them a few goals in that first quarter but we hung in there.
> 
> ...




It was a very impressive win.

They could have dropped their bundle when 27 points down in the 2nd quarter. But full credit to them and Matty Knights.

Great use of interchange - all the commentators were questioning taking LLoydy off after 10mins, but coaching staff stuck to their guns and they ran the legs off the Kangas. 

Dempsey, Houli, Jetta looked like very welcome additions to the team.

Losing Lucas will be tough but........it mimght ,make some of the others stand up this year (McPhee).

Overall great result .....but not getting too carried away...we started like this last year also.

Duckman


----------



## Duckman#72 (30 March 2008)

Duckman#72 said:


> Overall great result .....but not getting too carried away...we started like this last year also.




Oh dear....that's why.

On a positive note...... we don't play Geelong again for a while. Looked like the school seniors taking on the under 13's today. Welcome to the big league boys.

Duckman


----------



## nomore4s (30 March 2008)

Duckman#72 said:


> Oh dear....that's why.
> 
> On a positive note...... we don't play Geelong again for a while. Looked like the school seniors taking on the under 13's today. Welcome to the big league boys.
> 
> Duckman




yeah a bit of a wake up call, but I don't think anyone would have got close to Geelong today, they were awesome.


----------



## Real1ty (30 March 2008)

Duckman#72 said:


> Oh dear....that's why.
> 
> On a positive note...... we don't play Geelong again for a while. Looked like the school seniors taking on the under 13's today. Welcome to the big league boys.
> 
> Duckman




It was brutal.

Made us look second rate and a big wake up call.

If the hammering hasn't knocked all the confidence out of us, i would be hoping we should bounce back against the enemy next week.


----------



## Duckman#72 (30 March 2008)

Real1ty said:


> It was brutal.
> 
> Made us look second rate and a big wake up call.
> 
> If the hammering hasn't knocked all the confidence out of us, i would be hoping we should bounce back against the enemy next week.




Yeah Real - of all the teams - why Carlton next week!!!

Carlton love getting up for the Bomber clashes. Very possible that the Blues will do it again next week. Form goes out the window with Carlton with these games.

Danger game. Hopefully the Bombers look back at the tape and watch and learn how football should be played.

And Matty - run and gun footy might be exciting when you're winning but when you're not it can be woeful to watch.  

Duckman


----------



## Duckman#72 (7 April 2008)

Whew!! Got through the Blues - just!!

Next week will be another tester against the Bulldogs. The Bombers have had some success over the doggies in recent history (forgetting that it was the dogs that wrecked the "Perfect Season" of 2000 by beating us in Round 21 of that year.

Bombers should be able to match up reasonably well - just inexperienced. Doggies going into unchartered territory with 4 straight wins - they will be due for a loss shortly. They should have lost to Saints on Friday night. Bulldogs can't keep jagging these victories out of thin air.

The Bomber kids looked OK against Carlton. It was a strange game - I can't think of too many standouts for Bombers and they won, yet I can think of a few Carlton players that played well and they lost. 

Laycock and Hille doing OK at times, but need to start dominating whole games, not just 10 minute bursts. Paddy Ryder looks better every outing. We need another marking forward to step up this week. 

I think our defence is good enough, provided our inexperienced midfield can put pressure on theirs and choke the quality delivery into the forward line.  If the midfield is not up to it, the small experienced quicks for WB will tear us up.
Our forward line should match up OK against theirs.

Bombers by 19 in a shootout.

Duckman


----------



## Sean K (7 April 2008)

Has Ryder put on any weight yet? Maybe if he did it would reduce his leap? 

I've been overall disappointed with Hille's progress. With his size and skill he really could dominate, but he just doesn't get enough of the pill. 

Forward line's looking thinner with Jetta out. How's McPhee filling in? I think he's much better across half back...

Sounds like Daniher might get a run up front shortly. That'll be interesting.


----------



## nomore4s (7 April 2008)

Duckman#72 said:


> Whew!! Got through the Blues - just!!
> 
> Next week will be another tester against the Bulldogs. The Bombers have had some success over the doggies in recent history (forgetting that it was the dogs that wrecked the "Perfect Season" of 2000 by beating us in Round 21 of that year.
> 
> ...




Hi Duckman,

The bombers are playing alot better this year.

I think you're being a bit harsh on the dogs, after quarter time on Friday night they were clearly the better side, they crushed the Saints in the midfield.

I'm also not so sure about your defence, Carlton kicked 134 points against you guys which would have won any other game on the weekend, just lucky Carltons defence is worse than the bombers. I will admit alot of this probably has a bit to do with your midfield as well.

Like you said if you can't curb the influence of some of their onballers you guys could be in trouble. I think you will really miss Lucas this week, they wouldn't have been able to man up both him and Lloyd, but now Lake will get Lloyd, and my money is on Lake:

I actually think the Bulldogs are a better side then most people give them credit for.

Good luck though, good to see a competitive bombers side.

PS - How good are the Hawks looking?


----------



## Duckman#72 (7 April 2008)

kennas said:


> Has Ryder put on any weight yet? Maybe if he did it would reduce his leap?
> 
> I've been overall disappointed with Hille's progress. With his size and skill he really could dominate, but he just doesn't get enough of the pill.
> 
> ...




Hi Kennas

Paddy has put on some weight - not a heap. But it is reading of the play and his assuredness with the ball that has been impressive over the past few weeks. Great hands, great athlete and also good footy brain..... but his body is more Fletcher than Mal Michael.

As for Hille.......I'm not sure what to think. He does some great things at times but as I said, just has trouble imposing himself on games. But he's getting better - slowly. 

Jetta out is a blow. McPhee is an enigma. I'm still waiting for him to have another year like he did 3 years ago when he came across from WA. He played alright against Carlton. I would be happy of everyone in the Bombers lineup could hold their marks like McPhee. His marking has been a highlight this year. But I'm also of the opinion that he is better suited to a roving backline position. 

As for marking forwards.....from the games I watched pre-season and home and away of all people I reckon Jobe Watson makes a good fill in leading forward. Hard to believe but he has good hands and good timing on his leads, but he is a terrible bloody kick!!! Merv Neagle's son Jay also looked good playing key a forward role in the pre-season. One of those players that "makes things happen". The other option is Courtney Johns. 

Duckman


----------



## Duckman#72 (7 April 2008)

nomore4s said:


> Hi Duckman,
> 
> The bombers are playing alot better this year.
> 
> ...




Hi Nomores

Yes - maybe I'm a bit harsh on them (bitter about the footy picking loss) But I'm not a convert just yet. I watched the game last Friday night and as good as WB were after the break, Saints were woeful (and Ross Lyon had a poor game as coach). I agree with Patrick Smith from The Australian - the Saints forward line is way too top heavy and doesn't compliment each other. Reiwoldt needs to play Centre Half Back. He would be fantastic.

As for Bombers last week. I take your point about the backline ...but I'll add that it was the style of game being played. Like Kevin Sheedy, I really don't care what other teams score against us - provided we score more.  I thought it was a lucky break for the Bombers when Carlton excluded O'Hailpin. He's played very well against us previously. Lloydy is due for a bag of goals soon and has had some days out against the Doggies. 

On paper - Bomber forward line should be too strong for Doggies backline. Bomber backline should be too strong for the Doggies forwards......BUT WB have got much more experienced and in form midfield. Bombers need to win a lot more centrebreaks and apply a heap of pressure to AKA and co.    

Hawkers are going crazy!! The look very accomplished this year. You must be over the moon.

Duckman


----------



## nomore4s (7 April 2008)

Yes very happy atm.

I agree about the Saints. The Saints aren't as good as everyone thinks. I think that when they are under pressure they cough up too many mistakes. How often did the Bulldogs players stand up in tackles and get the ball away to open up play, yet the Saints couldn't do this they just turned it over, this will hurt them all year and especially in the finals.

As for Reiwoldt, I don't think he is a forward pure and simple. While he can take a grab and will cause the opposition to play a good defender on him he doesn't cause alot of score board pain for opposition very often. His kicking just lets him down, plus he gets alot of the ball out on the half forward line where his kicking into the forward line just doesn't have enough penetration.

He should be playing in the ruck I reckon, he would be devastating around the ground. Barring that CHB would also be better than the forward line.


----------



## chops_a_must (7 April 2008)

nomore4s said:


> Yes very happy atm.




I bet!

The dawks are holding up my dream teams at the moment!

Cyril's on a breakout!

Gee they are great to watch though. The most exciting team I've seen in a long long time.

The bombers will be there in 3-4 years if they can get some games into the young guys while the oldies are still there. Jetta and some of the others look really good.


----------



## trishan9390 (8 April 2008)

Big winners this weekend for me was Melbourne even though they lost. I think the Melbourne coach (name escapes me) said the word "competitive" over 20 times in one press interview leading up to the match and they played quite competitively. As much as it's great to see Geelong winning the flag after so many years - I would like to see them lose sometime. 

That Morton guy they picked in the draft was a good pick methinks. I went to school with Cotchin, year below me and he never seemed that good when he played for school. Kreuzer did well too.

As for bombers, I don't seem to see what they see in Laycock. He is so out of place with the new style of game the bombers are playing - fast paced. He is slow and lanky and doesn't seem to have any special marking ability up front. Anyone think he is good?


----------



## Duckman#72 (8 April 2008)

trishan9390 said:


> As for bombers, I don't seem to see what they see in Laycock. He is so out of place with the new style of game the bombers are playing - fast paced. He is slow and lanky and doesn't seem to have any special marking ability up front. Anyone think he is good?




Hi Trishan

The Bombers have only had one successful ruckman since Simon Madden left in the 1980's - that being John Barnes. He was the missing link in the 2000 premiership. He was beautiful to watch. Hille shows glimpses, and as for Laycock....... yes I agree. What is he going to be - a marking forward that can ruck, a ruckman that can go forward, a ruckman that can't ruck, a forward that can't mark? Who knows what he will end up as. I'm hoping that KNights will give him this season to sort himself out. He's a big unit.

A good ruckman is hard to find. Deep down Collingwood must be disappointed in Fraser as a No 1 draft pick. He is a little like Laycock - doesn't look like a pure ruckman but yet never really shines in the forward line as you would hope.

Duckman


----------



## Duckman#72 (12 April 2008)

The boys tried hard. Losing Lloydy midweek didn't help. They have now won 2 from 26 without LLoyd.

Young teams will lose games like that. It takes poise and experience to finish off close matches. But considering their start and that they were 10 points in front leading into the last quarter - I was pleased with that. They give every impression that they will beat some good teams when they sort themselves out. 

The disappointing thing was MORE SOFT TISSUE injuries. That makes about 7 players down over the past 4 games with calf/hamstring problems.

I have to now pray for some upsets so that I don't lose the footy tipping by a perfect round by going for the Bombers.

Duckman


----------



## Sean K (12 April 2008)

Duckman#72 said:


> The disappointing thing was MORE SOFT TISSUE injuries. That makes about 7 players down over the past 4 games with calf/hamstring problems.
> 
> Duckman



I think it's the nature of the modern game. So much twisting and turning, yada yada....

In the past, VFL was kick and mark in the mud! Now, it's fast netball! 

And, because of this, these guys are finely tuned athletes, not beer drinking smokers, having steak and eggs as a a pre game meal like when I started. LOL

Probably the highest % injury sport on the planet!!


----------



## Duckman#72 (19 April 2008)

Still learning, lots of positives. 

The midfield is progressing very well. They will be a force with a few more games under the belt. Lovatt in particualr has stepped up this year. When we get Jetta and Mc Veigh back it will look very nice. 

Houli has slotted in very well in the back half. 

One of our big problems last night was the forward line. Lloyd is hopelessly out of form and/or is having trouble adjusting to the delivery from the new "run and gun" midfield. 

I defended Laycock a couple of weks ago but now I must eat my words. He was dreadful last night. Even the commentators were saying that he didn't even look like he was trying. Give some "hungry" young kid a go. He kicked one goal last night as a result of.......get this...........roving in the goal square!!! A long ball came flying into the goal square and our 6foot 11inch marking option is crumbing the pack!!! The clock is ticking Jason!!!

Duckman


----------



## nomore4s (19 April 2008)

Duckman#72 said:


> Still learning, lots of positives.
> 
> The midfield is progressing very well. They will be a force with a few more games under the belt. Lovatt in particualr has stepped up this year. When we get Jetta and Mc Veigh back it will look very nice.
> 
> ...




Hey Duckman,

The bombers put up a good fight in patches. Just missing a few class players - Lucas, McVeigh etc.

The game may have passed Lloyd by, when you get seriously touched up by Max Hudghton you know you're struggling. I personally just think Lloyd is not hard enough at the ball atm, and he falls over every time he goes near it.:

I actually think the area where Essendon can get a huge improvement is thier defence. The only team averaging more points a game scored against them is Melb. You are always going to struggle to win alot of games when you are having an average of 120 points a game kicked against you.


----------



## Duckman#72 (19 April 2008)

nomore4s said:


> Hey Duckman,
> 
> The bombers put up a good fight in patches. Just missing a few class players - Lucas, McVeigh etc.
> 
> ...




Hi Nomores

Yeah - Lloydy is a problem. Like all true forwards - Gary Ablett, Tony Lockett, Sav Rocca, when they are on song - great. When they are not......... they are just a liability being out there. You can't throw them in the backline or the midfield to get them in the game. Lloyd isn't fit (if he is then the Bombers have a real problem). Might be time to get him rested and give Courtney Johns or Jay Neagle a go.

As for the backline. I agree to a point. I think the big problem is the lack of accountability by the midfielders under the new style of play. If you look at last nights game - the Saints had a stack of goalscorers. No one person kicked a bag. Under the new style of play, the transition from the backline through the centre is fast, exciting and deadly. Unfortunately the double edge to the sword is that a turnover can result in the same for the opposition. If you give a team with players like Del Santo, Ball, Harvey and Hayes easy access from the midfield into attack it doesn't matter if you have the 6 best defenders in the league - you will struggle.

To an extent it should be expected considering the young age of the new bombers. It is much easier to come into AFL and play "attacking" than it is to "play defence". Playmakers like Houli, Jetta, Davey, Riemers, Ryder, Pares, Dempsey and to a lesser extent Winderlich and Dyson just need to learn to adapt to "accountability" at AFL level. That just takes time. You ca't teach that midweek unfortunately. 

I still believe that a backline containing Michael, Fletcher, Ryder, Lovatt-Murray and (Slattery, Houli) has the ability to contain most forward lines "on paper". It is whether the Bomber midfield can put enough pressure on the delivery.   

Hope the Hawks get up tonight for you. I haven't seen much of Buddy this year - looking forward to watching him.

Duckman


----------



## nomore4s (19 April 2008)

Duckman#72 said:


> Hi Nomores
> 
> Yeah - Lloydy is a problem. Like all true forwards - Gary Ablett, Tony Lockett, Sav Rocca, when they are on song - great. When they are not......... they are just a liability being out there. You can't throw them in the backline or the midfield to get them in the game. Lloyd isn't fit (if he is then the Bombers have a real problem). Might be time to get him rested and give Courtney Johns or Jay Neagle a go.
> 
> ...




Hi Duckman,

I wasn't really talking about your backline as such, more about the defensive pressure all over the ground. Geelong are very good at it, therefore making the backlines job alot easier. All I was really alluding to is when they improve in this area they will become a very difficult team to beat.

I actually agree with you in regards to the backline, very capable.

Hawks going ok at half time, 8 pts up. Go the Hawks


----------



## Duckman#72 (21 April 2008)

nomore4s said:


> I wasn't really talking about your backline as such, more about the defensive pressure all over the ground. Geelong are very good at it, therefore making the backlines job alot easier. All I was really alluding to is when they improve in this area they will become a very difficult team to beat.
> 
> Hawks going ok at half time, 8 pts up. Go the Hawks




Sorry Nomores - we are on the same wavelength. I should have read that into your post.

Nice win to the Hawks. Buddy certainly is an excitement machine. When the ball moves into a clear and uncluttered forward line so quickly you bet he'll end up with it 80% of the time and the other 20% will spill for potential team mates.

Some other interesting games - Kangas too good when it counted for the Maggies.  What are your thoughts for ANZAC Day. Bombers or Maggies? And the big question........... will James Hird play?

Duckman


----------



## nomore4s (21 April 2008)

Duckman#72 said:


> Sorry Nomores - we are on the same wavelength. I should have read that into your post.
> 
> Nice win to the Hawks. Buddy certainly is an excitement machine. When the ball moves into a clear and uncluttered forward line so quickly you bet he'll end up with it 80% of the time and the other 20% will spill for potential team mates.
> 
> ...




No worries Duckman.

Buddy is a freak, no doubt about that, and what about Bradshaws effort to try and match him, great game.

Some very interesting games, both Port and the tigers trying their best to lose in the last quarters, gotta feel sorry for tigers fans.

As for the ANZAC Day match, I've got no idea really. 2 weeks ago I would have said Collingwood but after seeing them in the last couple of games I think the Bombers are a big chance to win. Coolingwood seem to be struggling to close out matches, maybe they're not rotating enough:.

I just hope you blokes run the legs off them as we play Collingwood the week after.


----------



## Sean K (25 April 2008)

Damn, wish I was there today! We're a chance, but with all those injuries, geesh!!!! Have a good day Bomber supporters!


----------



## Duckman#72 (25 April 2008)

kennas said:


> Damn, wish I was there today! We're a chance, but with all those injuries, geesh!!!! Have a good day Bomber supporters!




Hi Kennas

Now we've lost Davey for the season apparently!!

Yes it would be great to be there. Hi Mum,Dad, SIS and BIL (4 rows back behind the goals this year.

All signs lead to a whipping by the Pies, so it might just be a close one.

The Bombers certainly need to take heart from being the underdog because they'll need it. 

C'mon Lloydy, C'mon boys ....if you played with just _half_ the ability and passion of Hirdy you'll be in with a chance.

Duckman


----------



## pajm (25 April 2008)

Nth. Melb. man myself, but go Bombers! Hopefully we knocked the stuffing out of them for you last week. This would be a nice scenario for today:

" Bombers 5 points down,  10 secs to go. Ball in middle. Umpire bounce goes sideways towards Bomber's goal. Watson to Loyld. Goal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Result: Essendon win. Collingwood whinge (again). 

Should be a good game. Like to see Thomas and Didak turn it on (in a losing side). Real shame about Alywn 'the roadrunner' Davey' - love watching him and hope injury not too serious..

Thanks Diggers. 

Rest in peace.


----------



## paperclip (25 April 2008)

dont worry lads, we're to quick for 'em, we'll run 'em off there legs.
it'll be close enough but the end result is not in doubt
saw the CARLTON game a couple of weeks ago, under the pump half way through the 3rd quarter, then the boys just took off........ boy they can run, made 'em look a wee bit silly LOL.............. same thing will happen today!

GO BOMBERS

cheers PC


----------



## Duckman#72 (25 April 2008)

I like the confidence lads!!!

Rocca out. As much as he's one of the most over-rated forwards in the game with the most unreliable kick - he had a knack of turning it on against us. Might be good news.

Go Dons.


----------



## Sean K (25 April 2008)

Geesh, that was an ordinary effort. Or, are Collingwood that good?

Disappointing.

At least Lloyd got more than one kick. Good to see Jobe getting the ball, and how good is Stanton? He's going to be the next Captain you'd think?


----------



## trishan9390 (26 April 2008)

kennas said:


> Geesh, that was an ordinary effort. Or, are Collingwood that good?
> 
> Disappointing.
> 
> At least Lloyd got more than one kick. Good to see Jobe getting the ball, and how good is Stanton? He's going to be the next Captain you'd think?




Yes very dissapointing. I guess our injury list is catching up to us. Alwyn out for the season they say - not good at all. But as the commentators said during the game, the Bombers under Knights is a work in progress. Give us a few years and we'll be up there.

And yes Stanton is a legend. Our best player by a long way. How good was Fletcher in the 1st quarter???


----------



## shares (26 April 2008)

Major fitness (more like energy) problems for bombers 

Not going to get any easier for the dons, port and sydney for the next 2 rounds 

Fletcher was great in the 1st quarter, but we still need him in defense until Ryder develops.


----------



## Duckman#72 (26 April 2008)

No good at all. Kennas - Collingwood are not that good.

I was very disappointed in the lack of effort and committment.

By far the worst game under Knights. Essendon are really no further advanced than last year - with the exception of Hille and Jetta. Still far too many "watchers" out there. Dyson and Winderlich seem to have gone backwards. I can't even remember if Dyson was on for the four quarters.

The defensive pressure was again very poor (non-existent). Courtney Johns continues to be a player that we can't rely on. Laycock the same. 

I like the look of Reimers. A real goer and Houli continues to impress. Lloyd is a worry. Now Fletcher has gone down injured.

Knights has some work to do. He has the same problems with the same players that Sheeds had.

Duckman


----------



## agro (5 May 2008)

yesterday's score:

158 - Port

94 - Essendon


----------



## nomore4s (22 May 2008)

Interesting article on the bombers and Knights - for me anyway, bombers supporters maynot agree though:


Dons risk without responsibility


----------



## Duckman#72 (22 May 2008)

Yes it is interesting Nomores, but I slightly disagree with the article that says they are mentally shot.

Against Sydney, a third of the side were kids!! They don't have the experience, the ability, the mental capacity and therefore the consistency to play well at AFL level yet. 

Unfortunately what is left over that aren't kids are either injured to some degree, coming back from injury, were suspended or plain out of form. 

I agree with the article in so much as - I have written off this year. Are we breeding something into the side that says "it's OK to lose games by 60points plus"

Don't know?

Duckman


----------



## AussiePaul72 (22 May 2008)

Duckman#72 said:


> Yes it is interesting Nomores, but I slightly disagree with the article that says they are mentally shot.
> 
> Against Sydney, a third of the side were kids!! They don't have the experience, the ability, the mental capacity and therefore the consistency to play well at AFL level yet.
> 
> ...




Hey Duckman!
Hang in there, the Bombers will bounce back! The only real question is 'how long will it take?' I hope for the fans sake that this is a re-building year that gives the young up and comers some valuable experience for next season and that the experienced players suffering from injury bounce back and display their leadership qualities to the younger members of the team.
On the other hand i have to the opportunity to also comment also on my team the Lions!! I have been fairly happy with our form this season in general, however, we are only just sitting on the fringe of the eight. They were very competitive against both Hawthorn (home game) and Geelong (away) but didn't come away with the points in either. Anyway i don't think they are too far away from being a real force again!! Go the LIONS!!


----------



## nomore4s (22 May 2008)

Duckman#72 said:


> Yes it is interesting Nomores, but I slightly disagree with the article that says they are mentally shot.
> 
> Against Sydney, a third of the side were kids!! They don't have the experience, the ability, the mental capacity and therefore the consistency to play well at AFL level yet.
> 
> ...




Hi Duckman,

Posted the article as a bit of tongue in cheek - with you in mind:, as we had previously discussed Essendons lack of defensive pressure

I wouldn't get too worried yet. You don't know what Knights is saying or doing  behind closed doors or what his final goals in regards to game plan really are.

When Clarkson first took over at the Hawks we copped some rightful floggings and he stuck to his guns and look at us now.


----------



## Duckman#72 (22 May 2008)

nomore4s said:


> Hi Duckman,
> 
> Posted the article as a bit of tongue in cheek - with you in mind:, as we had previously discussed Essendons lack of defensive pressure
> 
> ...




Hi Nomores and AussieP,

The AFL season looks much better from where you two are sitting at the minute!!!

Actually I am surprisingly upbeat about the Bombers progress (or lack of it at the moment). I am amazing myself. I think I turned the corner when I stopped picking them in the footytipping out of sentimentality. I think it is only a matter of time before things start to click.

People forget that Collingwood spent the early part of this decade collecting wooden spoons before being inn the position where they are today. Same with Hawks. Mind you I would love to have Buddy in the red and black.

I agree Nomores - I see a little of Clarkson in Knights. The "Who Did You Appoint!!!" factor might just win out for Knights as well as Clarkson. He has really impressed. It is not looking bad on the resume for Damien Hardwick either working underneath him.

Duckman


----------



## paperclip (22 June 2008)

what a good day!!!! 
go bombers


----------



## Duckman#72 (23 June 2008)

paperclip said:


> what a good day!!!!
> go bombers




Yes good day.....and back to back. Nothing like beating Carlton...especially after they had pumped themselves up all week as being "back". They stood up when it counted. 

Bombers more desperate. Hille is really starting to produce the consistant quality that we knew he was capable of - the stuff that made Sheedy appoint him captain 2 years ago.

Reimers is a gun and is going to be a star.

They still need to beat a good side before we get too carried away. (Sorry Carlton, but a good side you ain't). 

Freo in WA next start......anything could happen with them. Extremely difficult for footy tipping. Bombers going for 3 on the trot. Freo look like beating every side they play during their games only to find a way to eventually lose. Bombers have only won roughly 5 from last 26 interstate games.

Duckman


----------



## Duckman#72 (30 June 2008)

Duckman#72 said:


> Bombers more desperate. Hille is really starting to produce the consistant quality that we knew he was capable of - the stuff that made Sheedy appoint him captain 2 years ago.
> 
> Reimers is a gun and is going to be a star.




I'll just repeat last weeks comments. 

Hille should be interchange ruckman behind Cox when All-Australian team named shortly.

And Remiers!!! This kid has got the "IT" factor. So confident, brash and arrogant....but with the game to back it up.

Duckman


----------



## nomore4s (1 July 2008)

Duckman#72 said:


> Hille should be interchange ruckman behind Cox when All-Australian team named shortly.




Big call, while Hille has been playing well, I think Sandilands has been awesome this year. My tip is Sandilands & Cox as the All-Australian ruck combo.

Can the bombers go 4 in a row?

You'll all be talking finals shortly:


----------



## Sean K (1 July 2008)

nomore4s said:


> Big call, while Hille has been playing well, I think Sandilands has been awesome this year. My tip is Sandilands & Cox as the All-Australian ruck combo.
> 
> Can the bombers go 4 in a row?
> 
> You'll all be talking finals shortly:



If we get into the finals, I'll be flying home to watch them.

That's how confident I am that we wont be in them.....

Damn, I miss going to the G to watch the Footy ....


----------



## Duckman#72 (1 July 2008)

nomore4s said:


> Big call, while Hille has been playing well, I think Sandilands has been awesome this year. My tip is Sandilands & Cox as the All-Australian ruck combo.
> 
> Can the bombers go 4 in a row?




Hi Nomores

Bombers 4 in a row? Doubt it!

I have a big problem with Sandilands. He tries really hard and had a great game against the Bombers BUT.......for a bloke his size he should be taking games by the scruff of the neck. But he doesn't. He had 45 hitouts on Sunday....45!!! But have a look at "hitouts to advantage". They just aren't there. 

While Hille's rucking has been good this year, it has been his efforts around the ground that have been impressive. He has been "The Man" to take crucial marks at crucial times, plugging holes and going forward to kick goals. Sandilands could have won the game for Freo twice on Sunday with easy set shots. 

An All Australian ruckman should provide the team with more than just hitouts to no ones advantage. 

I must admit I've seen Hille more than Sandilands this year so I could stand corrected, but I would doubt Sandilands has "won" as many games for Freo this year as Hille has for the Bombers.

I'll go out on a limb right now and say that Remiers will be All Australian within 3 years.

Duckman


----------



## nomore4s (1 July 2008)

Duckman#72 said:


> Hi Nomores
> 
> Bombers 4 in a row? Doubt it!
> 
> ...




lol, I also doubt Sandilands has won many games for Freo this year as they've only won 2.

The hitouts to advantage is a fair point but I think this has more to do with Freos midfielders - they are just too static at the stoppages.


----------



## travwj (1 July 2008)

A Bombers thread..fantastic!!!

It has been three good weeks, Hille has played very well, like we all knew he could and Jetta showed that he can play on the weekend against Freo. Would of loved to go to the game, but unfortunatly was away at work...

See how we go in two weeks time..

Trav


----------



## paperclip (13 July 2008)

4 in a row
easy really when they have the players on the field!!!
one ponders "IF" when hadn't had quite so many injuries earlier.
happy BOMBER ATM
cheers PC


----------



## Sean K (13 July 2008)

Baby Bombers revisited?

I'm not counting on the eight at this time.

Just played some of the chuff the past few weeks.

Playing a top 4 will be the measure.


----------



## Sean K (17 July 2008)

McVeigh out for 5, what a shame.

Been the engine room with Watson and Stanton.

Will be a loss.

Could be 5 in a row this week, with any luck.


----------



## doogie_goes_off (17 July 2008)

Not an Essendon supporter but have this to say - No McVeigh... No Way.

Anyhow the side loosened up once Laycock returned and helps their structure out immensely. Essendon to finish 9th this year, anyone wat a 50 cent bet that they can make the eight?


----------



## Sean K (17 July 2008)

doogie_goes_off said:


> Not an Essendon supporter but have this to say - No McVeigh... No Way.
> 
> Anyhow the side loosened up once Laycock returned and helps their structure out immensely. Essendon to finish 9th this year, anyone wat a 50 cent bet that they can make the eight?



No money off me, I reakon 10th or worse.


----------



## chops_a_must (17 July 2008)

nomore4s said:


> lol, I also doubt Sandilands has won many games for Freo this year as they've only won 2.
> 
> The hitouts to advantage is a fair point but I think this has more to do with Freos midfielders - they are just too static at the stoppages.




I've been given a bit of a clip around the ears for some of the things I've said about Sandilands... but I may just have a problem with him... I don't know.

The reason the midfielders are static around him is because he can't hit a moving target with his taps. Time and time again, you see the ball being put behind them. His awareness is shizenhouse, and that stops him from moving up from a good ruckman to an elite one.

It's also a very small point that we win more clearances when he's not in the ruck.


----------



## Real1ty (17 July 2008)

chops_a_must said:


> I've been given a bit of a clip around the ears for some of the things I've said about Sandilands... but I may just have a problem with him... I don't know.
> 
> The reason the midfielders are static around him is because he can't hit a moving target with his taps. Time and time again, you see the ball being put behind them. His awareness is shizenhouse, and that stops him from moving up from a good ruckman to an elite one.
> 
> It's also a very small point that we win more clearances when he's not in the ruck.




So Chops has been carded at BF so you have to resort to ASF for your footy talk....lol


----------



## chops_a_must (17 July 2008)

Real1ty said:


> So Chops has been carded at BF so you have to resort to ASF for your footy talk....lol



Hahahahaa... this is correct. :

Although I've been talking to the mods via the report post function. It's kind of like a glory hole. I'm sure they'll close that loophole.

Bloody pathetic reason mind you.

Love the mods here. 

And, how do I know you?


----------



## paperclip (26 July 2008)

Toot bloody Toot...................... the boys are impressive. the future looks very very good!
cheers PC


----------



## Duckman#72 (26 July 2008)

Duckman#72 said:


> Hille should be interchange ruckman behind Cox when All-Australian team named shortly.
> 
> And Remiers!!! This kid has got the "IT" factor. So confident, brash and arrogant....but with the game to back it up.
> 
> Duckman




Just to repeat myself  - these two were AGAIN up with our best today.

I must admit I think I sold Hille short being backup ruckman - he is looking like starting All Australian. You can keep your Sandilands!!

Great win today. Collingwood are kidding themselves if they think they will feature in the finals this year if they bring that rubbish to the table.

One complaint still. Imagine how good Essendon would be if we had a half decent backup ruckman!!! Essendon with Charman and Hille in the same side would be at least 3 places higher than the one fielding Laycock and Hille (however I did say earlier in the year that I would give Laycock the year to show us what he's got).

My only disappintment today being that I am currently leading my office footy picking comp and decided to "hold" my lead and play safe and thereby pick the Pies. 

Great game Watson, Welsh, Monfries, Reimers, Lloyd, Hille and as always well played Fletch.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (26 July 2008)

Are there any Rugby League clubs in Essendon. A friends kid is moving down there and he doesn't want his son to play AFL. 

gg


----------



## Duckman#72 (27 July 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Are there any Rugby League clubs in Essendon. A friends kid is moving down there and he doesn't want his son to play AFL.
> 
> gg




LMAO!!! There is one Rugby League club in Melbourne that I know of .......they are called Storm. 

What a wonderful father - by forcing his kid to play Rugby League in Melbourne he is really opening all sorts of doors for him. I'm sure he will quickly find his feet and feel at home!!


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (27 July 2008)

Duckman#72 said:


> LMAO!!! There is one Rugby League club in Melbourne that I know of .......they are called Storm.
> 
> What a wonderful father - by forcing his kid to play Rugby League in Melbourne he is really opening all sorts of doors for him. I'm sure he will quickly find his feet and feel at home!!




This kids father is quite homophobic and I think thats the reason he doesn't want his son to play AFL in Essendon.

gg


----------



## nomore4s (27 July 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> This kids father is quite homophobic and I think thats the reason he doesn't want his son to play AFL in Essendon.
> 
> gg




lol whats that got to do with playing AFL?

Wouldn't have thought any more gay guys play AFL then NRL?

In fact the NRL have had an openly gay guy (Roberts) play at the top level - very good player he was too. Whereas I can't think of 1 top AFL player being openly gay (could be wrong though).

Also NRL had a player who used to stick his thumb up players dates on the field.

And this guys worried about his son playing AFL?


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (27 July 2008)

nomore4s said:


> lol whats that got to do with playing AFL?
> 
> Wouldn't have thought any more gay guys play AFL then NRL?
> 
> ...




Yes I agree there shouldn't be any more gays playing AFL than ARL. I rang him to sound him out on his reasons. 

A major theme was the shorts they wear in AFL remind him of pictures from the gay Mardi Gras.

Then again he is homophobic, and he is worried about his son.

On population figures between 10 and 25% of AFL and ARL players should be gay. Perhaps more.

Are Essendon more gay or non gay than the average? I'll let him know your answer.

gg


----------



## nomore4s (27 July 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Are Essendon more gay or non gay than the average? I'll let him know your answer.
> 
> gg




lol, they do have Matty Lloyd playing for them:

Also the shorts are nowhere near as tight any more


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (27 July 2008)

nomore4s said:


> lol, they do have Matty Lloyd playing for them:
> 
> Also the shorts are nowhere near as tight any more




I'll let him know that when he finishes watching his latest Kylie Minogue DVD. Last time I rang him he told me not to f***ing disturb him for another 2 hrs. He does worry about this kid going to Melbourne though.

gg


----------



## Duckman#72 (27 July 2008)

nomore4s said:


> lol, they do have Matty Lloyd playing for them:
> 
> Also the shorts are nowhere near as tight any more




Hi Nomores

As a side issue - have you seen Mrs Lloyd? I'd say Matty is doing alright just quietly!! 

As a matter of fact Garpal, get your mate to tune into Brownlow night and let him see who the red blooded males are!!!  Sounds like your mate is a closet homosexual!!! (Me thinks he doth protest too much).     

What's going on with the Hawks Nomores? You are still 2nd in line for the flag behind the Cats. But the rest of the field is catching up. 

Cheers 
Duckman


----------



## nomore4s (28 July 2008)

Duckman#72 said:


> Hi Nomores
> 
> As a side issue - have you seen Mrs Lloyd? I'd say Matty is doing alright just quietly!!
> 
> ...




lol, was waiting for your reply

Don't worry about the Hawks, we played alright on Friday night against the mighty Cats - probably should have won the game in the end.
But I'm not sure we're ready to win a flag yet, we need at least 1 more big defender and are still lacking that extra poise under pressure when its needed the most - our kicking was terrible on Friday night.
Big game this Friday night now - against the Magpies who will be fired up after the hiding you blokes gave them.

As for the rest of the field, a few of them let some chances to consolidate in the top 8 slip pretty badly on the weekend.

You must be pretty happy with your boys atm, especially considering the injuries you've got.
Hille is killing the pig atm, on fire, just need a back up for him. Laycock is a joke, he must be the laziest footballer in the AFL.


----------



## Duckman#72 (28 July 2008)

nomore4s said:


> As for the rest of the field, a few of them let some chances to consolidate in the top 8 slip pretty badly on the weekend.
> 
> You must be pretty happy with your boys atm, especially considering the injuries you've got.
> Hille is killing the pig atm, on fire, just need a back up for him. Laycock is a joke, he must be the laziest footballer in the AFL.




Yes - the Hawks were far from disgraced on Friday. This Friday will be another test. Pressure off Collingwood to a certain extent. Hawks on paper should put them away but Collingwood have been playing better these days when it is "'backs against the walls" stuff. Of the games I've watched of Hawks, I am loving the way Roughhead plays - he could kick straighter but he's a big, strong brute.

You make a good point about Essendons injuries and outs - we won that game without Lovatt, Davey, Gumbleton, McVeigh, Houili, Dempsey and Neagle. That's not a bad backup group to come back into the side. 

Cheers
Duckman


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (28 July 2008)

Duckman#72 said:


> As a matter of fact Garpal,  Sounds like your mate is a closet homosexual!!! (Me thinks he doth protest too much).
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yes you could be right, he's from South Australia originally too.

gg


----------



## nomore4s (1 September 2008)

WTF happened to the bombers on Sunday night?

Did they do a deal with the Saints?:

I'll be watching trade week with interest  rotflmao


----------



## Sean K (2 September 2008)

nomore4s said:


> WTF happened to the bombers on Sunday night?
> 
> Did they do a deal with the Saints?:
> 
> I'll be watching trade week with interest  rotflmao



LOL, no real benefit for us, unless some cash went under the table..so maybe...

How many of our best 18 did we have out? 12 of them I think...

The fitness/conditioning crew should be sacked. That's not bad luck IMO. 

Any good signs for the Dons?


----------



## Duckman#72 (2 September 2008)

kennas said:


> LOL, no real benefit for us, unless some cash went under the table..so maybe...
> 
> How many of our best 18 did we have out? 12 of them I think...
> 
> ...




Yes there were some very good signs. 4 players out of the side retired after Sunday's game. 

We also got some game time into some rookies. Hooker, Bellchambers, Hocking, Williams, Magin. If they had played 15 games between them I would be surprised.

Still no one likes to end the season on a 100 point hiding. 

I only heard the call on the radio and it allowed for an interesting perspective....... I don't know how Bellchambers played but I heard "King wins the tap....., King knocks it to advantage....., King down to Hayes....., King too strong...."

So now that the season is over....who do we need in the draft? A CHF, CHB, midfielder, FF or Ruck? I'd be disappointed if we went for Kerr. It would have been nice to actuall see Gumbleton play a bit this year.

Duckman


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## Duckman#72 (14 April 2009)

Still way to early for this team yet but........WHOOOO HOOOO!!!

A win like that over the Blue Baggers is always cause for celebration!!!!!!

Still more pain to come (from inexperienced team) but some promising signs and it is games like that where they learn how to win.

Go Bombers!!!!!!

Duckman


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## Duckman#72 (14 April 2009)

I have to make another post.

After posting a comment on how good the Bombers were looking, I noticed that I had hit post number 666. Call me superstitious but the Footy Gods are always looking at reasons to torture me - I don't need to give them a loaded gun.

Duckman


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## mazzatelli1000 (14 April 2009)

Ahhh gone are the days when the Bombers would only lose 1 game all year
2000 was a sweet year


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## nomore4s (14 April 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> I have to make another post.
> 
> After posting a comment on how good the Bombers were looking, I noticed that I had hit post number 666. Call me superstitious but the Footy Gods are always looking at reasons to torture me - I don't need to give them a loaded gun.
> 
> Duckman




lol, you blokes need all the luck you can get this year, Hawthorn could also do with some luck on the injury front as well.

But at least you don't support Richmond, going to be a long season for tigers fans.


----------



## Sean K (14 April 2009)

Yes great win.

Is Hille going to get off?


----------



## nomore4s (14 April 2009)

kennas said:


> Yes great win.
> 
> Is Hille going to get off?




Yep, charges have been dropped - thank god, he's in my dreamteam


----------



## Duckman#72 (14 April 2009)

kennas said:


> Yes great win.
> 
> Is Hille going to get off?




I think so. From the footage I'm not even sure he made contact with the head. Certainly wasn't intentional or malicious (not that that means anything these days). He just went in hard.  

He is also lucky that there are some other high profile cases this week such as Brown, Maxwell and Shaw that will take the pressure of him. I think he'll be unlucky to get time. 

Duckman


----------



## Sean K (14 April 2009)

nomore4s said:


> Yep, charges have been dropped - thank god, he's in my dreamteam



Yeah, me too. 

Needs to lift his game a bit though!


----------



## nomore4s (14 April 2009)

kennas said:


> Yeah, me too.
> 
> Needs to lift his game a bit though!




I agree with that, otherwise he'll be out of my dreamteam


----------



## Sean K (25 April 2009)

How are we going?

I'm refreshing my screen every few moments on The Age to keep track of the score.

Anyway I can see this live through the computer?


----------



## Duckman#72 (25 April 2009)

What can I say!!!!!:alcohol::bier: Yyyyooooouuuuuu little bbbbeeeeeaaaauuuuuuuty!!!!!!!!!!!!

What a game!!! The Bombers had no right to win this game.

We lost our only full time ruckman in the first 2minutes. Our full forward and captain is out of form and didn't kick a goal. Our CHF should be playing in the Magoos and perhaps retired. 

This was the day our young blokes said "Hey - we can play you know!"

Ryder, Stanton, Watson, Dyson(cough,cough), Lovett, Davey and Zaharasic(sic) all played out of their skin today. So proud of them. They never gave up - just great.

How bad would Collingwood be feeling? The No 1 draft pick and captain Josh Fraser was completely towelled up by a part-time ruckman who did not spend 1 minute on the bench? 

The trick is now to encapsulate the desire and will to win in every game - not just against Collingwood and Carlton.

Well done boys - proud to support you. And as added cream on the cake, the win is so much sweeter when you pick them in the footy picking comps (although I must admit is pick them every week).

Everyone says how exciting Collingwood is as a side - yet when they had possession they were as boring and predictable as watching paint dry. Go right aound the boundary , keep em offs. When Bombers got it , it was straight through the middle (heart in your mouth stuff!!)

Fletcher played well as usual - and it was good to see Knights played him on Rocca. 

Duckman


----------



## MrBurns (25 April 2009)

Champions........always, courage, guts and determination, suck that Collingwood


----------



## Real1ty (25 April 2009)

Caption says it all...


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## Sean K (26 April 2009)

Whoohoo!! 

How bad is Hille going to hurt? What a shame for the man, cut down in his prime.

Put Lucus to half back to replce Ryder's work there I reckon. Although maybe he's just too slow now.


----------



## sammy84 (26 April 2009)

Hille looks to gone for a while. If its an ACL it means 12 months at least. 20% of footballers never play again professionally after an ACL, their terrible. There is always silver lining at least, Ryder can now finally develop, rather than being wasted in the back line. The guy physically is a freak.

Re Lucas: I'm not sure what should be done with him. The guys has been my favorite player for years, however I'm starting to think he is no longer up to AFL level football, I hope I get proved wrong....


----------



## Duckman#72 (26 April 2009)

sammy84 said:


> Hille looks to gone for a while. If its an ACL it means 12 months at least. 20% of footballers never play again professionally after an ACL, their terrible. There is always silver lining at least, Ryder can now finally develop, rather than being wasted in the back line. The guy physically is a freak.
> 
> Re Lucas: I'm not sure what should be done with him. The guys has been my favorite player for years, however I'm starting to think he is no longer up to AFL level football, I hope I get proved wrong....




Lucas has been a favourite of mine also. A real workhorse that tries his guts out. The difference now is that although he is still trying his guts out, he is a liability out on the park. To the credit of the rest of the team - they looked for Lucas on almost every occasion. They gave him every chance to get some form up. I was screaming at the TV in a vain attempt to get them to "STOP KICKING IT TO LUCAS" which is sad reflection on how far he's fallen. He used to be Mr Reliable. Be perfectly clear - the Bombers won despite Lucas, not with the help of Lucas. 

I love the guy - but at the moment the Magoos would struggle to find a spot for him. I have never seen a player so out of form. Do you keep playing him in an attempt to "run him in" - maybe but when Lloyd is only running on 3 cyclinders it leaves a weak forward line.


----------



## nomore4s (26 April 2009)

What a game, well done the bombers.

I must admit the missus & I were cheering for them in the last quarter and we were cheering like the hawks were playing when Zaharakis kicked that goal. I thought Jetta had blown it when he stuffed up that goal just before Zaharakis kicked the winner.

Ryder was amazing, he kept them in the game the whole day and should have won the medal even if the bombers had lost - talk about ANZAC spirit. Fraser should be ashamed he was towelled up especially in the 2nd half.

Lucas was terrible and I don't think the bombers can continue to carry both Lucas & Llyod. Surely this will be the last year for both of them.
Jetta is another one who I think needs to show more, I thought he was disgraceful at times on Sat - soft and lazy.


----------



## Duckman#72 (26 April 2009)

nomore4s said:


> What a game, well done the bombers.
> 
> Lucas was terrible and I don't think the bombers can continue to carry both Lucas & Llyod. Surely this will be the last year for both of them.
> Jetta is another one who I think needs to show more, I thought he was disgraceful at times on Sat - soft and lazy.




Good call Nomores - you're an astute observer. Jetta - as promising as he is - continues to be a "passenger" for the majority of games. Perfectly prepared to play small cameos as they come up. Needs to get a bit of mongrel in him and commit to every contest. At the moment he is reacting to opportunities, not getting in their and creating opportunities. 

I also agree about Lucas. But not necessarily Lloydy. A healthy Lloyd is still dangerous deep in the forward line. Lloydy is a class act - with age, the body slows but you don't necessarily lose your skills. UNforunately with Scottie - he never had the same skills (tried much harder than Lloydy mind you) but not blessed with the same skill set. ( A bit like the kid that needs to do extra homework every night to keep up with  the dux).

Can go too crook on Jetta, but would like his development to be quicker. When you see players like Rioli for Hawthorn........


----------



## ivant (27 April 2009)

Jetta was ok! Horrible game from Lucas though. I wasn't so sure that our coach did the right choices as well. The boys were monumental in the end. I never give up on a match, however I did actually think we were going to lose. Those 3 goals came out of nowhere. I nearly cried haha  

I would be very happy if Lucas and Knights both leave at end of year. Lucas is a long time favourite of mine too, but he needs to show some form or else he is just a burden. Did you see some of the goals he missed? I could have scored some of those with my opposite foot. No confidence at all. Maybe some VFL?

I hope Hille recovers soon! Such a crucial player.

Oh and how good was McPhee's first half? And Dyson's freak of a goal in the end  Oh my this one will be talked about for a while


----------



## Real1ty (27 April 2009)

ivant said:


> *I wasn't so sure that our coach did the right choices as well*.
> I would be very happy if Lucas and *Knights* both leave at end of year




Care to elaborate on what Knights did wrong?

Knights' contract runs out at the end of next season so he won't be going anywhere and i wouldn't be surprised to see him signed half way through next year.


----------



## trillionaire#1 (27 April 2009)

what a bloody exciting game essendon played,much more so than my
beloved port adelaide who should be wearing skirts this week.


----------



## Duckman#72 (27 April 2009)

Real1ty said:


> Care to elaborate on what Knights did wrong?
> 
> Knights' contract runs out at the end of next season so he won't be going anywhere and i wouldn't be surprised to see him signed half way through next year.




I agree Reality. I was a huge fan of Sheeds and was disappointed in the way he left the club but Knights has done well in a difficult situation.

Knights does play guys out of position and differently to "what we are used to". However there is probably a case for some tough love. He has a small window of opportunity to get his players to show some improvement so that he can be judged as a coach. The future for Knights (and the Bombers) is no longer with Lloyd, Fletcher and Lucas (although Fletcher continues to be a marvel. The best full back over the past 30 years of any side). 

To be fair - I think Knights has done a pretty good job to date. He has made some good "hard" decisions. For example Johnson and Peverill had to go. They are not the future of the club. I think the decsion to grab Skipworth was a good one. Not because he is a wonderful player but he is a very servicable player with experience. Great team man and will be great for the development of the youngsters. Bombers at the moment are either old or young - Skipworth provides a balance (and before you say it - he is a few years younger than Peverill).

He has inherited a team that have suffered in recent years through either poor draft selection and/or injuries to top draft picks (eg Gumbleton and Bradley). Neither are Knights fault.

If the Bombers continue to play exciting, fast (and accountable) footy I think Knights will be well on his way to a contract extension.   

Duckman


----------



## Real1ty (27 April 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> I agree Reality. I was a huge fan of Sheeds and was disappointed in the way he left the club but Knights has done well in a difficult situation.
> 
> Knights does play guys out of position and differently to "what we are used to". However there is probably a case for some tough love. He has a small window of opportunity to get his players to show some improvement so that he can be judged as a coach. The future for Knights (and the Bombers) is no longer with Lloyd, Fletcher and Lucas (although Fletcher continues to be a marvel. The best full back over the past 30 years of any side).
> 
> ...




Good post Duckman thanks for that.

I asked the question of ivant as he made a call on Knights and said that he wanted him gone but backed it up with no examples, so it was my guess he was one of the army that was a Sheeds lover and no one would be good enough to replace him.

Whether Knights is a good enough coach to be successful is yet to be proven, either way, but until it is proven that he isn't, he has my full support, as should he have of all Essendon supporters.

We have seen our club make many correct decisions over the years and haven't had to watch our club go through some of the lean periods others have and i have been lucky enough to witness 4 premierships since i have followed the Dons, which is a lot more than most other supporters. We ALL should back the decisions they make as they invariably make the right ones.

Knights is trying to get the players to follow a gameplan, which was non existent under Sheedy, and it takes time.
He had to learn what the players could and couldn't do and which ones were capable of carrying out the vision he has. That was mainly what last year was about.Find out which players were capable of playing fast attacking football.

This year has seen an introduction of a more balanced approach with a mix of attack and defence.
We have one of the younger lists in the AFL and as you rightly point out injuries to young up and comers have been brutal to us over the last few years and last year in general the injuries destroyed our year.

He is giving young players valuable game time for the future and we will have THE most talented defence in 3 years.

We are often criticised for our midfield but we have no trouble mixing it with the majority of other clubs midfields, other than the very elite, and he has done this by introducing numbers through the midfield and with Prismall still to return, my info is he will play reserves in 2 weeks, we have numerous options in there.

Anyway i am starting to go off tangent here but Knights has been a breath of fresh air imo and i can see little reason why he could be criticised at this early stage of his career, and i am interested in seeing ivant's reasons as to what he has done wrong and why he wants him gone.

Knights has a vision, some of our supporters can only see the now.


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## nomore4s (27 April 2009)

I actually like Knights as a coach. He is building a solid game plan & style of play that will let Essendon compete with the better sides in the comp when they finally mature, but most importantly it is a style of football that will win finals matches. Fast, attacking football wins finals matches.

I stand by my comments that Jetta is soft & lazy, he doesn't put on enough pressure like Davey & Rioli and is easily hassled off the ball. He doesn't work anywhere near hard enough or attack the ball hard enough imo.


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## ivant (27 April 2009)

Sorry guys, haven't checked this until now. 

I think there is definitely a valid point in what has been said about Knights being new and what he has done well.

What I like about him:

He picks the young players well. He obviously has a good understanding of what they can and can't do, and without doubt that comes from being a reasonably successful coach at Bendigo.

He has made some good decisions off the field, with letting go certain players and looking forward (maybe a good time to consider Lucas and a VFL placement for him until he gets some confidence back).

Some small other points that are a waste of space.

What I don't like about him:

His choice of strategies. He is not a quick thinker. He has a tendency to have some players that are completely outplayed staying on the same opponent for the entire game. Some players are outpaced and outclassed and sometimes it is crucial for the end result. I will post some examples when I watch the next game. I didn't remember the particular matchups in the last game or the one against Carlton and Port that I thought were horrible.

I thought it was time for Sheeds to go in 2002-03. However, what I always loved about him, is that he could sure pump up his players. You could see him yelling in the coaches box. We came out in that 4th quarter like little children. After that Ryder goal there was nothing that happened until the end. We were horrible. The momentum that was generated in the 3rd was wonderful, and it was sad to see it go away. As a coach you need to rip the @ss of your players if they deserve it. You HAVE to have a team go firing in the last.

Back to strategy, he does not seem to be able to measure the strength of the side and spread it throughout the game. We were short players against that Collingwood match, and we were belting our full energy out before the last. No decent coach does that. Look at any sport. Look at soccer managers, how they pace their team. Hiddink was a master in that. 

Lastly, our major problem is accuracy. We have the run, and he has generated a good midfield I think. But we have to work on accuracy. I will comment on this later in the season. If we are still 15th in accuracy by end of year, this will probably be my main concern with him.

In any case, I think he has done reasonably well, as he is new and young. If he can get that brain part working, and become a strategist on the field, he will do well. He has a year and a half to prove himself. Otherwise I think he would be an amazing assistant coach for his great side selection and off the field strategies. 

Just my . I could be very very wrong...


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## Real1ty (27 April 2009)

ivant said:


> Sorry guys, haven't checked this until now.
> 
> I think there is definitely a valid point in what has been said about Knights being new and what he has done well.
> 
> ...






> His choice of strategies. He is not a quick thinker. He has a tendency to have some players that are completely outplayed staying on the same opponent for the entire game. Some players are outpaced and outclassed and sometimes it is crucial for the end result. I will post some examples when I watch the next game. I didn't remember the particular matchups in the last game or the one against Carlton and Port that I thought were horrible.




This has nothing to do with quick thinking but a conscious decision made by Knights and O'Donnell to leave Daniher on Fevola. 
If you had of heard Knight's interview after the game you would of heard him say he discussed moving Daniher off fevola but O'Donnell, who is the defensive actions coach, pointed out that Darcy was making fev get most of his kicks from out wide and he wasn't really hurting us as he was kicking points.

Darcy has played about 5 games but the decision to leave him on fev would have given him confidence and he would have learnt plenty.

We only have 1 key position backman, Fletch, and it is Knight's job to get games into our kids to have them ready for when Fletch, Lucas and Lloyd are gone.

This means we have to wear some pain when they are getting beaten but it is what every club must go through when they are blooding kids and it is about the future, not the now.

Against Port, Hurley, playing his first game, kept Tredrea goal less and Tredrea has since kicked 2 bags of 6.



> I thought it was time for Sheeds to go in 2002-03. However, what I always loved about him, is that he could sure pump up his players. You could see him yelling in the coaches box. We came out in that 4th quarter like little children. After that Ryder goal there was nothing that happened until the end. We were horrible. The momentum that was generated in the 3rd was wonderful, and it was sad to see it go away. As a coach you need to rip the @ss of your players if they deserve it. You HAVE to have a team go firing in the last.




If Sheeds could always pump up his players how have we not made the finals since 2004 and we win only 3 games in 2006 avoiding the spoon barely be %?

You say you were happy with the third quarter so why should he have ripped the @ss out of his players at 3/4 time?

Have you considered that the effort expended in the third quarter took a lot out of the players and that Collingwood with nothing to lose gave it everything they had?



> In any case, I think he has done reasonably well, as he is new and young. If he can get that brain part working, and become a strategist on the field, he will do well. He has a year and a half to prove himself.




Yet you wanted him gone at the end of the year


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## ivant (27 April 2009)

Oh it is such fun getting nailed about a topic I know so little about  Haha.  




Real1ty said:


> This has nothing to do with quick thinking but a conscious decision made by Knights and O'Donnell to leave Daniher on Fevola.
> If you had of heard Knight's interview after the game you would of heard him say he discussed moving Daniher off fevola but O'Donnell, who is the defensive actions coach, pointed out that Darcy was making fev get most of his kicks from out wide and he wasn't really hurting us as he was kicking points.
> 
> Darcy has played about 5 games but the decision to leave him on fev would have given him confidence and he would have learnt plenty.
> ...




Valid point! It is up to him to train kids (of whom most are older than myself ) so that we have another 2000 . I still think if someone is getting nailed it is a good idea to change something. Fletcher has historically been good against Fevola. 



> Against Port, Hurley, playing his first game, kept Tredrea goal less and Tredrea has since kicked 2 bags of 6.



Hurley was good indeed. Who was the guy who kept scoring goals for Port that match?




> If Sheeds could always pump up his players how have we not made the finals since 2004 and we win only 3 games in 2006 avoiding the spoon barely be %?




I didn't say always. He got lazy in his last year or two, and wasn't willing to do anything. 



> You say you were happy with the third quarter so why should he have ripped the @ss out of his players at 3/4 time?
> 
> Have you considered that the effort expended in the third quarter took a lot out of the players and that Collingwood with nothing to lose gave it everything they had?




Oh I understand. We were much more tired than them, which brings me back to one of my points, about knowing how much energy your side has. Ripping was needed to be done to a few of the players, specifically Lloyd and Lucas, who had almost no input to the game. Regardless, you still MUST motivate your players, regardless of how well they are playing. I remember when I played footy a few years ago, if a player wasn't playing well (like Lucas), there are things that a coach can say that will make everything seem better and I have seen on several occasions players playing a lot better after a good chat. 


> Yet you wanted him gone at the end of the year



Ha! Well maybe I do  But obviously since I now know that his contract expires next year, that won't happen. 

Lets switch to some debate about trading or politics or something  haha. I won't get so nailed in those  I haven't seriously followed footy for a few years due to the lack of time. Pretty much since I stopped playing. I used to actually know all the players names in the full side, and a lot of the seconds. I forgot our coaches name 2 weeks ago!! So obviously I will lose any argument about Essendon haha. I just stated what I thought from the match on ANZAC day, and I still think Knights didn't do the best job in the world, from a strategy perspective.


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## sammy84 (27 April 2009)

For anyone that missed that great moment on Saturday

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VWhUEt5ZJc

Still gets the heart pumping


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## Duckman#72 (3 May 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> The trick is now to encapsulate the desire and will to win in every game - not just against Collingwood and Carlton.




Last night was a great example of "not being switched on". The boys were so flat. In truth the ANZAC Day game mentally hurt the Bombers badly (both on the park and the selection table). Had we lost that game - more scrutiny would have been placed on our weaknesses (ie Lloyd, Lucas, Jetta, no ruck divison). As it turned out the selectors took a "if it ain't broke don't fix it approach".

Despite what the match committee think - we are not going to win too many games this year with Lucas patrolling the forward line with all the poise and grace of a heavily sedated giraffe. Add Lloydy being out of form into the mix and you have one of the most celebrated and successful forward combinations ever to misfire.       

Mentally - we were comprehensively ambushed.  A team that gets walloped by 93 points should not be allowed a comfortable win 6 days later. Full kudos to Vossy and his troops - way to good.

Now to add insult to injury, Fletcher has broken his leg. Just great. 

The football gods can be cute can't they! "Fletcher is Essendon's most consistent player. Let's break his leg on his 300th"........meanwhile at the other end of the ground you couldn't break Lucas in half with an army tank. I hate to say it but - it might have been the turning point of our season if Lucas had of broken his.

Without getting too negative - it is the inconsistency that is so frustrating for the Bomber fans. Some of the disposal was woeful as was the decision making. I'll give you my favourite example:

Lucas marked on the outer wing. Instead of kicking he played on by handpassing to Jobe Watson about 15m ahead, right on the boundary line with a player directly in front of him. (So you have one of the biggest kicks in the games passing to one of the least accurate kicks in the comp.) Now Watson - under pressure decides on a short pass to a stationary Davey....the smallest man on the ground, maybe even the whole AFL. He was monstered by two defenders and the ball rebounded straight down to Brown.

What a complete root up! Wrong players kicking, wrong players marking, poor positioning.   

We have a terrible 4 weeks ahead which includes 3 of the 4 best sides (Hawthorn Geelong, St Kilda). Hopefully Knights can take a leaf out of the Lions book and get themselve ready for next week.

Duckman


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## Sean K (3 May 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> Last night was a great example of "not being switched on". The boys were so flat. In truth the ANZAC Day game mentally hurt the Bombers badly (both on the park and the selection table). Had we lost that game - more scrutiny would have been placed on our weaknesses (ie Lloyd, Lucas, Jetta, no ruck divison). As it turned out the selectors took a "if it ain't broke don't fix it approach".
> 
> Despite what the match committee think - we are not going to win too many games this year with Lucas patrolling the forward line with all the poise and grace of a heavily sedated giraffe. Add Lloydy being out of form into the mix and you have one of the most celebrated and successful forward combinations ever to misfire.
> 
> ...



CRIPES!!!!  

Glad I didn't get to see that!!!

I'm still holding Lucas in my team thinking that he will come around. He's costing me severely this year.

Have Fletcher in the back yard, will he be back next week?


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## nomore4s (3 May 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> Hopefully Knights can take a leaf out of the Lions book and get themselves ready for next week.
> 
> Duckman




I hope not


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## Duckman#72 (3 May 2009)

kennas said:


> CRIPES!!!!
> 
> Glad I didn't get to see that!!!
> 
> ...




Hi Kennas and Nomores

Fletcher won't be back next week - three weeks at the earliest and 8 weeks at the most serious.

I wouldn't be too worried about things if I were you Nomores. By the way hows the "new addition". Not so new anymore I guess. Has Dad turned (her?-from memory) into a true little Hawk supporter?

Duckman


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## nomore4s (3 May 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> I wouldn't be too worried about things if I were you Nomores. By the way hows the "new addition". Not so new anymore I guess. Has Dad turned (her?-from memory) into a true little Hawk supporter?
> 
> Duckman




You just never know with this game, that's what makes it so good but we need to win to establish ourselves in the 8.

My little girl is awesome, she's 10 months old already and loves the hawks song. Hope your flock are all going well too.
They certainly change your outlook on life.


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## ivant (9 May 2009)

If Knights was a futures contract, I'd close out my short and long him right now. Great game! Sorry about that nomore4s, you guys played really well!


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## dalek (9 May 2009)

Outstanding effort by the Bombers and good return to form by Lloyd.

Classic example of the difference between a team trying not to lose a game and a team trying to win a game.


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## sammy84 (9 May 2009)

I cant help myself- THE BABY BOMBERS ARE BACK!!!


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## nomore4s (9 May 2009)

ivant said:


> If Knights was a futures contract, I'd close out my short and long him right now. Great game! Sorry about that nomore4s, you guys played really well!




lol, the bombers played really well and took the game on, which was good to see. Told you Knights is building a solid game plan, the bombers deserved to win without a doubt.

Hawthorn on the other hand were disgraceful, our skills & decision making were terrible, too many of our players looked slow with the ball and were lazy without it. There were alot of passengers last night for Hawthorn and we are nowhere near as fit as we were last season. 

Luke Hodge needs a rest, he is obviously carrying an injury and he has been very ordinary all year - I don't think he has beaten his opponent once this year.

Enough of my rant, I'll let you bomber guys gloat now:


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## Duckman#72 (9 May 2009)

nomore4s said:


> lol, the bombers played really well and took the game on, which was good to see. Told you Knights is building a solid game plan, the bombers deserved to win without a doubt.
> 
> Hawthorn on the other hand were disgraceful, our skills & decision making were terrible, too many of our players looked slow with the ball and were lazy without it. There were alot of passengers last night for Hawthorn and we are nowhere near as fit as we were last season.
> 
> ...




Hi Nomores

Yes , we played really well last night.

Cannot understand them - the intensity, spirit and desire to contest the ball was unquestionable. A complete turnoaround from the week before. 

Great decision to drop Lucas - and my remarks about Lloyd still being a very valuable player was also highlighted. 

The Bombers look a better side at the moment without Jetta. Teams can be broken into Clydesdales(workhorse) and Thoroughbreeds(racehorses). The team needs to be balanced between the workhorses -Watson, Stanton, Monfries, Hocking, McVeigh, and Houli and the racehorses - Lovatt, Davey, Dyson, Winderlich. You need both sorts, but drop workhorses for racehorses at your peril. Jetta swings the balance too much towards the racehorses.

A great example of a racehorse used to be Caracella - when Essendon played well Caracella looked a star, but when Essendon played poorly, Caracella was nowhere to be seen.

Great coaching performace by Knights. Bellchambers and Ryder combined well in the ruck. Some of Paddy's vertical leaps in the last quarter were awesome. 

I agree Nomores - your mob looked bad, however, credit where credit is due, the tackling and harrassment was fantastic by the Bombers and the deciusion to play on the kick long at every occasion threw the game in our direction. Hawthorn never controlled the tempo of the game. He who controls the tempo and style usually wins. 

The big question is "which Essendon is going to turn up next week?" Do we have to wait a fortnight for another good performance.

Duckman


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## Sean K (10 May 2009)

Whooohooooo!!!!  

Damn, it!

I picked Hawks...


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## Sean K (25 May 2009)

Dons are playing ahead of themselves aren't they?

Did Bellchambers get on the ground the past 2 games? I put him in my Super Coach team, but he looks like he'll be gone shortly with Laycock having a good first game at Bendigo. Do I replace him with Laycock?

How good is Ryder going to be?


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## Duckman#72 (25 May 2009)

kennas said:


> Dons are playing ahead of themselves aren't they?
> 
> Did Bellchambers get on the ground the past 2 games? I put him in my Super Coach team, but he looks like he'll be gone shortly with Laycock having a good first game at Bendigo. Do I replace him with Laycock?
> 
> How good is Ryder going to be?




Hi Kennas

For the first question? Probably yes. But not for Richmonds win. They should have beaten the Tigers based on form lines. BUT.....the wins over Blues, Pies and Hawks were probably "overachieving". But hey .....teams lose ones they should win and just sometimes it comes back around and they win games they should lose.

Ryder looks great!! He is relishing the freedom of being a follower around the ground.

I've liked Bellchambers - hasn't got great numbers around the ground but has been more than serviceable. Didn't have a great night against the Tigers. Smashed early in the ruck. Laycock looks like he will slot straight in which is a worry because the big fella has always had a problem with the size of his engine. The fitness staff better make sure he can contribute. Full credit to Bellchambers for standing up when needed. If Laycock "goes missing" and doesn't run the game out I'd be putting Bellchambers back in straight away. 

The midfield is looking really good. I spoke a couple months back about work horses and show ponies and the mix is really sweet at present. Jobe Watson must be one of the slowest players in the team but gee he is playing fantastic footy. He is crucial to this teams development. And Hocking has been very impressive as well. I don't know if you are watching the games kennas but players like Hocking, Houli, Pears and Hooker are all progressing very nicely. Davey and Lovatt playing very well. Stanton down on form this week.

Jury is still out on Jetta for me. 

Won't speak too soon. Cats this week!!.

Duckman


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## Real1ty (25 May 2009)

Laycock won't be elevated to the senior team this week and neither will McVeigh, Reimers or Prismall.

Hurley has earned a recall but it will depend on match ups whether he gets a game this week or not.

Dempsey is also a good chance to miss with his ankle.


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## Real1ty (25 May 2009)

Just found out that Hurley has most likely fractured his scaphoid bone in his wrist, so he won't be back this week either.


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## Real1ty (29 May 2009)

They will play McVeigh this week, which i think is too early, and they are still unsure on the other player to come in.

Looking forward to this game and while i don't think we will win, it would be great to see us be competitive.


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## Sean K (29 May 2009)

Real1ty said:


> They will play McVeigh this week, which i think is too early, and they are still unsure on the other player to come in.
> 
> Looking forward to this game and while i don't think we will win, it would be great to see us be competitive.



I think they'll just play him is spurts. Maybe 10-15min a quarter. He must have done enough last week for them to think he'll pick the pace up. It's bloody good to get a bit more experience back in the team anyway. We seem to have a bunch of kids playing with grandma Lloyd and the moment, while grandpa Fletcher is out, and great auntie Lucas is in the infermery. No adults to be seen.

I think there'll be a 60 point plus margin this week.


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## Duckman#72 (29 May 2009)

kennas said:


> I think they'll just play him is spurts. Maybe 10-15min a quarter. He must have done enough last week for them to think he'll pick the pace up. It's bloody good to get a bit more experience back in the team anyway. We seem to have a bunch of kids playing with grandma Lloyd and the moment, while grandpa Fletcher is out, and great auntie Lucas is in the infermery. No adults to be seen.
> 
> I think there'll be a 60 point plus margin this week.




Hopefully not 60 points +!!

The one thing in their favour is that Geelong is not 100% firing, nor have their full players in the side. 

The Dons are due for a sizey loss, when you think of the lucky they've had this year.

Duckman


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## Sean K (1 June 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> Hopefully not 60 points +!!





Has Bellchambers been put on field yet, or does he just sit on the bench all day? 

Looks like they all sat on the bench for the first half.


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## sammy84 (1 June 2009)

kennas said:


> Has Bellchambers been put on field yet, or does he just sit on the bench all day?
> 
> Looks like they all sat on the bench for the first half.




He injured his knee in the second half, nevertheless he was still benched for a most of the first half from what I read. He is young, and Patty is doing such a great one man job in the ruck. Anything rather than having Laycock as Essendons second ruckman and I'm happy.


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## Duckman#72 (6 June 2009)

I hope I'm wrong but I really don't like our match ups against Adelaide. I think for footy tipster this game could prove the steal of the year. I can't beleive on Oztips Essendon were at one stage 62%-38% favourites!!

Adelaide is a form side and should be going for their 4th straight win. They broke their Melbourne hoodoo against the Bombers last season so Docklands shouldn't hold any problems. Bombers have big rucking problems and their three inclusions this week are Reimers (1st game this year), Prismall (1st game for Bombers ever) and Lucas (who is having trouble getting a kick in the VFL). 

On papers Adelaide deserve to be going into this game firm favourites.

Duckman


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## Sean K (6 June 2009)

Yeah, I agree on the favouritism status, but I don't hold too much weight about Adelaide's ability to win at Etihad, or whoever has enough spare change to name it this week.

Who is the ruck backup? Lovett?


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## nomore4s (6 June 2009)

Adelaide are playing very good footy atm, the last 2 games especially, they made both Carlton & Hawthorn look second rate - which they both probably are atm


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## prawn_86 (6 June 2009)

Im an Adelaide supporter, and i'll say one thing for the Croes, is that they make you watch the whole game.

Even if they are up by 10 goals at half time they usually figure out a way to lose the game, or at least only win my a slim margin. There seems to be something not quite right with their psychology, as they rarely ever bury sides. This has been witnessed in the 3rd quarter fades out in the last 3 or 4 weeks. They have been outscored about 24 goals to 4 in third quarters in the last month.


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## Duckman#72 (8 June 2009)

It would have really set us up nicely going into the break sitting at 6-5. The finals were still a genuine 50%/50% possibility. Unfortunately at 5-6 it makes the task that much harder.

The boys played admirably but the depth of the Bombers was not that of the Crows. Same great players - Watson, Ryder, Stanton and Lovatt but not enough help. 

The forward line of Lucas, Monfries, LLoyd and Neagle is very much a work in progress and as a result is very hit and miss. 

The disappointing thing is that for a game I expected us to lose, we led at 
every break except the one that counted!!

Duckman


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## Sean K (8 June 2009)

Yeah, I picked Adelaide for this. I was very surprised to see us lead for most of the game.

Crucial lost I feel. One that they will rue later in the year. Could be the difference between making the eight, or not.

Thank God for Stanton and Watson. Great consistency coming through from Lovett!!

Desperately need Fletcher back there. And Lloyd to pull his f*ckin finger out! He's a liability at the moment. Maybe he should move to CHB?


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## Knobby22 (8 June 2009)

I went to the game and thought both sides played well.

At the end Essendon were too tired to win which is probably because they were smaller and younger.
Nagle is out of form and was puffing.

Generally, it was a good game.


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## prawn_86 (8 June 2009)

Apparently it was the most accurate game in AFL/VFL history. Not sure how they worked it out though.

The Crows finally have some good young forwards to work with, and providing they stay injury free they might be somehting in a year or two. Some crazy goals kicked by both sides, and a good result to compliment the fine beers we were drinking


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## Knobby22 (8 June 2009)

Yes, I barracked for the Crows over the last 4 years until this year when I am back with the Bombers due to family reasons.

The Crows are looking less dour and thier coach appears to be changing the way the play. Some great marks, great goals on both sides. Both sides very clean with the ball.

I like Neil Craig and feel sorry for him that the didn't get a premiership a few years ago when they had the chance.


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## Duckman#72 (8 June 2009)

Knobby22 said:


> I went to the game and thought both sides played well.
> 
> At the end Essendon were too tired to win which is probably because they were smaller and younger.
> Nagle is out of form and was puffing.
> ...




Yes "game hardness" is really missing in the Bombers play. It was especially evident in the Geelong game and exploited again by the Crows. Not that they didn't try, they were getting to the Crows players but many tackles that the Bombers laid were missing "crunch". Crows were able to either break free or get arms loose for the offload.  

Yes Neagle has a very poor general fitness level. Sometimes he looks as if he needs a "you know what" placed strategically "you know where". Although if he turns out to be as good as another forward that often plays like that (Fev) the Bomber faithful will be happy.

Really is frustrating to see other teams "new look" forward lines firing and then look at our crossover tangle consisting of Lloyd, Lucas, Monfries and Neagle. Our midfield depth has greatly improved, and even our backline core when Fletcher and Lovatt-Murray come back is rapidly improving. But it is still the forward line that makes you hold your breath as to how they are going to play on the day.   

Accuracy of both teams was exceptional. You often have one team kicking well but not both. When you take out the 2 rushed points, Essendon kicked 18 Goals 4 Behinds! Bombers next game against Melbourne - no easy gimme. Hopefully they will beat the Pies this afternoon and get their win out of the way.

Duckman


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## Real1ty (8 June 2009)

Just some background on Neagle.

He has had his last 3 pre seasons and seasons ruined by fractures to both ankles and is on a modified training program aimed it getting him to play a lot of games rather than training him hard and him breaking down again.

Not sure if many people really understand how important he is going to be when it comes to replacing Lloyd but with the continuous injury concerns to Gumbleton, if Neagle breaks down and can't ever fulfil his potential, we are in a lot of trouble with Lucas and Lloyd gone in the next year or 2.

The club believe he has an enormous amount of talent and could become a champion power forward but it is going to take a few years. He has already shown talent in small patches and in the coming years he could be an awesome spearhead.

One of the main reasons Adelaide won yesterday was because they took over at the centre clearances for 2 reasons.

1: Paddy was hitting the ball the way he was facing almost every time, he is still very raw and doesn't understand rucking yet, and Adelaide just roved the ball off his taps after quarter time.

2: When Paddy went off we were left to replace him Lucas or Hooker, who are both not ruckman at all.

This gave them first use of the ball and this is why they could score so easily.

Prismall played his first game for us and McVeigh and Riemers are both very underdone but in the coming weeks these guys will be ready to step up. Welsh should return in 2 or 3 weeks as well.

Hurley and Fletcher returning will be the biggest positive as that will then allow Hooker to be played as a back up ruckman off the bench or in the  FP to give Paddy the rests that he needs.

We need to have an injury free month or more to get our players back and fit again and we can have a really good second half of the year and with a bit of luck sneak into the 8.

If we continue to have our players injured continuously it will be another year of games into our kids but a disappointing year ladder wise.


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## Duckman#72 (8 June 2009)

Real1ty said:


> Just some background on Neagle.
> 
> He has had his last 3 pre seasons and seasons ruined by fractures to both ankles and is on a modified training program aimed it getting him to play a lot of games rather than training him hard and him breaking down again.
> 
> ...




Hi realIty,

Some good points there.

Yes Neagle has been susceptible to injury (which Essendon draft picks haven't been!!!), but when it all comes down to it - the Bombers are playing guys that are not match fit. 

As much as I find Mick Malthouse a cranky old prick most opf the time - I do find his take on the "injury toll" quite refreshing. If you are one of the 22, then you are fit to play and deemed to be in the best 22 that the club has to offer. Forget the injury list.

Yes, I know we need to "nurse" some of the younger players along. But as a supporter it doesn't make it any easier to watch a young bloke that has no conditioning get beaten to the ball, stop chasing, tackling half heartedly that is taking up a key position spot like Full Forward or Centre Half Forward. You can hide a midfielder or small forward on a flank or pocket but it is much harder to hide a KPP. My point is, when opposition players line up on Neagle they couldn't "give a rats @#$%" whether or not he's had a full pre-season under his belt. If he's out on the park - bloody play football like you mean it!!

Your comment about how important Neagle is going to be is not lost on me. Who have we got? We have LLoyd that plays 1 great game in five, we have Gumbleton who is possibly the greatest player to have only played 4 games of AFL in history, we have Lucas who has been a wonderful workhorse over his career but time is moving on....... AND we have Neagle - who picked up 3 kicks on the weekend. 

You also made a comment that their midfield started roving Ryder and when Lucas/Hooker went into the ruck their midfield got on top. I would have thought that when Lucas went into the ruck, every Essendon midfielder should have been roving to Adelaide. Our players cannot honestly say they thought Lucas was going to win quality ball in the ruck contest? Rove the opponent. 

I agree - Fletcher and Lovett-Murray coming back will be good. McVeigh needs to step up to pre-injury form. I hope we sneak into the 8 but it will be hard - and if we do you can bet that the forward line has been working much more effectively in the second half of the year than the first half.

Duckman


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## sammy84 (8 June 2009)

Have no fear, as I have said earlier the baby bombers are back. Like a good stock there will be some retracements in their form, but ultimately there is only one directions this team is going. Premiers 2010 has a good ring to it 

Seriously there are some good kids, Neagle has shown he can play, one bad game and every one is on his back. One of Essendons problems prior to this year was the lack of a quality back up ruckman, but now with Ryder showing he has the goods, a Hille/Ryder combination will be potent.


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## beamstas (8 June 2009)

Talking of essendon
I used to play on lonergan back in the mini league - under 12's, the coach had me "tag" him (if you'd call it that in the u12's)

He was a gun midfielder back then, hopefully he'll step it up in the AFL for a regular spot in the midfield. Already showing some potential, plenty of tackles and gets a kick every now and then.


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## Duckman#72 (8 June 2009)

sammy84 said:


> Have no fear, as I have said earlier the baby bombers are back. Like a good stock there will be some retracements in their form, but ultimately there is only one directions this team is going. Premiers 2010 has a good ring to it
> 
> Seriously there are some good kids, Neagle has shown he can play, one bad game and every one is on his back. One of Essendons problems prior to this year was the lack of a quality back up ruckman, but now with Ryder showing he has the goods, a Hille/Ryder combination will be potent.




Hi Sammy

I like your way of thinking!!  Yes a Hille/Ryder combo would be fantastic to see. 2010 would sit nicely with the 2000 premiership!!

And there are some great kids out there - the "baby bombers" they most certainly are. But fair go in relation to Neagle - "one bad game and everyone is on his back".  It's not like I'm bagging him after he's set the world on fire for the past 8 weeks. Over that time he's been "serviceable and promising" at best and "lost and a passenger" at worst. And I get that. He's only young and will continue to be inconsistent.

Hey Beamstas - I will look at you in a whole new light now that I know you were the "go-to shut down man" in the Under 12's!! Brett Kirk eat your heart out.

Duckman


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## beamstas (8 June 2009)

Im just waiting for him to be like the next C.Judd or J.Hird, so when the opposition sends in the taggers i can sit back and be like

Pick up your game Cameron Ling.. I did a better job that that!  :bier:


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## nunthewiser (8 June 2009)

go the eagles


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## sammy84 (8 June 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> Hi Sammy
> 
> I like your way of thinking!!  Yes a Hille/Ryder combo would be fantastic to see. 2010 would sit nicely with the 2000 premiership!!




Imagine when they are changing rucks and either one would be able to drop back into the forward line. This would really create some headaches for opposition.



Duckman#72 said:


> And there are some great kids out there - the "baby bombers" they most certainly are. But fair go in relation to Neagle - "one bad game and everyone is on his back".  It's not like I'm bagging him after he's set the world on fire for the past 8 weeks. Over that time he's been "serviceable and promising" at best and "lost and a passenger" at worst. And I get that. He's only young and will continue to be inconsistent.




I agree he hasn't set the world on fire, but what I saw in pre-season gave me enough hope. Funnily enough he reminds me of a young Hille. He has a solid body shape, but seem to not yet be comfortable within himself. I remember Hille in the beginning was this lump of a player, who lacked coordination and agility. I'm hoping this will change as Neagle matures into his body.


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## Real1ty (8 June 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> Hi realIty,
> 
> Some good points there.
> 
> ...






> Yes Neagle has been susceptible to injury (which Essendon draft picks haven't been!!!), but when it all comes down to it - the Bombers are playing guys that are not match fit.




We are not in a position where we can win a flag in the next 2 years, sorry sammy84, and the club is intent on building to a flag, not providing acceptable losses or short term gains.

We are playing young guys to give them the experience they need and to find out if they are good enough to cut the mustard or do we get rid of them and have a lot of draft picks this year before the Gold Coast team join the draft from next year and 2 years later West Sydney come in.

The years to come are going to be very lean pickings for older teams like Sydney, and StKilda and if you are going to lose a few games by playing kids in a year where you have no chance for ultimate success anyway, it may as well be in the last draft where you have some good picks.

We are also playing guys that are not match fit due to our injury list and Malthouse has rarely had an injury list anywhere near ours and ours has been a constant at our club year after year, not for a month at a time.



> My point is, when opposition players line up on Neagle they couldn't "give a rats @#$%" whether or not he's had a full pre-season under his belt. If he's out on the park - bloody play football like you mean it!!




The thing is he has nowhere near the fitness level to play at the intensity you would like to see him at due to his years of doing virtually nothing and his modified training program he is on now. It just will not happen this year and if you want to see that you will be disappointed.

If Neagle wasn't to play, who do you suggest we play instead of him?

We need to be realistic as to where we are as a club.

We have 3 champions on the way out and with no ready made replacements for 2 of them, Lloyd and Lucas.

We have one of the youngest and inexperienced teams taking the field each week, at least we did when Lucas and Fletcher are out, we are missing our first 3 ruckman and have had a lot of our experienced players injured for most of the year.

We have had to pluck Paddy out of our defence and lost Fletch for a descent chunk as well and to make matters worse our best young defender, Hurley, has played one game so far and has spent the rest injured.

We are 5/6 and are still a rough chance to sneak into the 8 so things are not too bad.

Patience is needed and we are building for the future, not the now.


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## JAKSPARA (8 June 2009)

> "....And Lloyd to pull his f*ckin finger out! He's a liability at the moment. Maybe he should move to CHB?




This is something you here alot of late and i must disagree. Ok he is'nt kicking bags anymore which is'nt so hard when you have James Hird delivering the ball inside fifty but lets face it HE IS'NT GETTING THE QAULITY OR QUANTITY OF DELIVERY. He is now pushing up the ground alot more and having more of a physical influence across the half forward. By doing this it opens up for the likes of Neagle, Monfries, Davey etc. etc. I think Lloyd is actually playing a role that will pay off in the future. With such a young and exciting side the  focus is on building confidence and discipline.That is why Lloyd has taken on a different role and this will lay down the foundation for the future. He is by far the best person to be leading this young team to future success and is far from being a liability.

Big up and respect Kennas but must disagree on this mate


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## JAKSPARA (8 June 2009)

... but totally agree with Realitys last comments


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## Sean K (8 June 2009)

I'm judging Lloyd from an armchair in Peru, so I am probably wrong. I'm only going on all the match reports and stats, which might be deceiving. On the surface his $1m salary (or whatever it is) would be better spent on 2 or 3 forwards who play as a forward kicking goals. He must be the most expensive decoy in the game.


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## Duckman#72 (9 June 2009)

Real1ty said:


> We are not in a position where we can win a flag in the next 2 years, sorry sammy84, and the club is intent on building to a flag, not providing acceptable losses or short term gains.
> 
> If Neagle wasn't to play, who do you suggest we play instead of him?
> 
> ...




Hi Real1ty

I am not arguing with you. I guess I just don't have the patience you do. I wasn't having a go at Neagle's skills - he is a great mark, has good clean hands, is a good kick and has a big strong body. I am just making the comment that as an Essendon supporter it is frustrating watching our forward line at the moment particularly when compared to say .....Adelaide.

Your comments are even worse than they first appear. In 2 years + time when you suggest we are realistically going to be making a play for the flag, who will we have in the forward line? Lloyd and Lucas won't be there. We are pinning our hopes on a kid that may or may not make the grade. I hope he can but I can remember wonderful things said about one Courtney Johns as well not that long ago.

By the way - Ryder out for one week on rough conduct. Just great. Pies gave the Dees a touch up so they will be keen to make amends.

Duckman


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## Duckman#72 (10 June 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> By the way - Ryder out for one week on rough conduct.




Sorry - I jumped the gun. He's been cleared to play - charge dropped.


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## Real1ty (10 June 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> Hi Real1ty
> 
> I am not arguing with you. I guess I just don't have the patience you do. I wasn't having a go at Neagle's skills - he is a great mark, has good clean hands, is a good kick and has a big strong body. I am just making the comment that as an Essendon supporter it is frustrating watching our forward line at the moment particularly when compared to say .....Adelaide.
> 
> Your comments are even worse than they first appear. In 2 years + time when you suggest we are realistically going to be making a play for the flag, who will we have in the forward line? Lloyd and Lucas won't be there. We are pinning our hopes on a kid that may or may not make the grade. I hope he can but I can remember wonderful things said about one Courtney Johns as well not that long ago.




Hi Duckman.

I realise you are not arguing with me and we both want the same thing for Essendon and all i am doing is trying to point out where we are as a club and that if you or anyone is expecting success in the next 2 years they are going be disappointed.

We are suffering from Sheedy's short sighted approach in his final years and the drafting of older players instead of kids and hanging onto duds for too long has set us back a long way.



> Your comments are even worse than they first appear. In 2 years + time when you suggest we are realistically going to be making a play for the flag, who will we have in the forward line? Lloyd and Lucas won't be there. We are pinning our hopes on a kid that may or may not make the grade.




This is why we HAVE to play Neagle now and next year if he is fit Gumbleton because even though they may not be physically ready to play, they need the experience and these are the guys, along with Michael Still, who are going to have to step up and be the replacements for Lloyd and Lucas.

Having said that that is the same for every club that has to replace champions, you need your young kids to step up and if they don't make the grade then you are in trouble.

This draft is very important and we need to draft well as after this one with GC and WS coming in, picks are going to be very few and far between in the next 5+ years.

Our biggest problem has been every year we get smashed by injuries and when that happens to your young players, they don't get the experience they need and we don't get enough of a look at them to know whether we should keep them or get rid of them.

We have a lot of young talent on our list but young players are inconsistent hence so are young teams and that's what we are, a young developing team who needs to learn how to play after Lloyd and Lucas are gone.


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## Duckman#72 (26 June 2009)

Great win tonight over the Bluebaggers!!!!!

Lovatt and Davey - speed kills!!!

Duckman


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## Sean K (27 June 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> Great win tonight over the Bluebaggers!!!!!
> 
> Lovatt and Davey - speed kills!!!
> 
> Duckman



Woohoo!! 

I tipped Carlton.


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## nomore4s (27 June 2009)

Gee, it doesn't take you Essendon boys long.

Was a very good win by the Bombers last night. They look to be building a very good team.
The defence looks like it will be okay once Fletcher finally gives it up with Pears, Hooker and Hurley and the midfield is starting to look dangerous with players like Stanton, Watson, Prismal, Lovett as well as Welsh and McVeigh (if he ever stops getting injured) and a good ruck division once Hill comes back.

The only thing they need now is a key forward to take over from Llyod & Lucas.

Essendon seem to be able to get healthy contributions from their lesser known players which you need to be a good team. And they look a better team without Jetta:

Carlton on the other hand are overrated - take out Judd, Gibbs & Murphy and maybe Fev on his day and thay are a bunch of cats imo. They don't seem to have enough players willing to do the hard work and alot of players go missing when the going gets tough. The way they capitulated in the second half last night was disgraceful.


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## El Chupanibre (27 June 2009)

nomore4s said:


> Carlton on the other hand are overrated - take out Judd, Gibbs & Murphy and maybe Fev on his day and thay are *a bunch of cats imo*. They don't seem to have enough players willing to do the hard work and alot of players go missing when the going gets tough. The way they capitulated in the second half last night was disgraceful.




Geelong are a bunch of 'cats' and I wouldn't mind being them. 

Great win by the Bombers. If we can do it again next week, my year would be perfect


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## Sean K (27 June 2009)

I don't think we should get ahead of ourselves.

Do you think the boys are overachieving?

Agree with nomore on the forward line set up.

Maybe having Ryder and Hille down there changing in the ruck will be nice next year, but what else? Neagle? Those whippets are good value around their feet I suppose. HTF did Monfries kick 5?


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## Duckman#72 (27 June 2009)

nomore4s said:


> Essendon seem to be able to get healthy contributions from their lesser known players which you need to be a good team. And they look a better team without Jetta:




Thankyou Nomores - I've been sprouting team balance without Jetta for months. Glad you noticed!!

For all the No 1 Draft picks - I wouldn't trade our young blokes. But we need to back it up against Collingwood now. It was only a month ago we were saying where is our depth. Now everyone seems to be saying look how much depth Essendon has.

When you consider that last night Zaharakis, Houli, McPhee, McVeigh, Neagle and Slattery were watching on, it is pleasing. Also considering Hille, Gumbleton, Myers, Laycock and Bellchambers are long term injury listed it was impressive.

Big game for your blokes this week Nomores. They need to put the hand up. I need them to win to get the perfect round. I don't think the Pies over Freo will be lay down either!!

Duckman


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## Duckman#72 (27 June 2009)

kennas said:


> Those whippets are good value around their feet I suppose. HTF did Monfries kick 5?




Great opportunist goals. Although he took a couple marks from strong leads. For his size he is good overhead - although there is a touch of Matty Lloyd about his "dives" lately.

Lovatt BOG for mine easy. And Davey - he might only get 10 possessions but he causes so much opposition turnover....and COSTLY turnover.

Duckman


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## nomore4s (27 June 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> Big game for your blokes this week Nomores. They need to put the hand up. I need them to win to get the perfect round.




We're a bunch of cats this year as well. I think we should win this week but I don't think we will make finals this year or if we do we will just scrap in.

Too many players are underdone after poor pre-seasons and injuries. The things that won us the flag last year have totally disappeared from our game, hard running, pressure through the midfield and quality ball into the forward line. Last year we were one of the fittest teams in the comp but this year we are probably the unfittest as shown by our poor second halves.

While dissapointed by our performance so far this year it must be remembered Hawthorn has an extremely young list still and some of the players just aren't up to the rigors of the intensity of AFL footy week in & week out yet.

On Neagle I'm still on the fence with him, needs to get alot fitter and work harder imo - look at all the top key forwards Riewoldt, Brown, Buddy and they all do a mountain of work, I'm yet to really see that in Neagle. Dropping him was a good thing imo as he currently doesn't deserve a spot in that team and he should have to earn it.


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## Duckman#72 (27 June 2009)

nomore4s said:


> On Neagle I'm still on the fence with him, needs to get alot fitter and work harder imo - look at all the top key forwards Riewoldt, Brown, Buddy and they all do a mountain of work, I'm yet to really see that in Neagle. Dropping him was a good thing imo as he currently doesn't deserve a spot in that team and he should have to earn it.




There is certainly not the intensity this year from your guys. Although funnily enough I have a huge wrap for Chance Bateman and his work ethic this year. Every game I've seen this year, he's been trying his guts out. Roughhead and Franklin look like they are just going through the motions. Maybe 2008 was the Hawthorn version of the Baby Bombers of 1993.

My views on this are already known but I entirely agree about Neagle. The difference between now and 2 months ago is that Scott Lucas, while not in stellar form is doing enough to warrant selection in the side. Neagle should be "learning his craft" through work experience in the AFL. Give him some games in the seconds.

Duckman


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## sammy84 (27 June 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> When you consider that last night Zaharakis, Houli, McPhee, McVeigh, Neagle and Slattery were watching on, it is pleasing. Also considering Hille, Gumbleton, Myers, *Laycock* and Bellchambers are long term injury listed it was




Keep Laycock as far away from the Essendon team as possible. I would take Paul Salmon out of retirement before Laycock. The man losses Essendon match's.

I will say it again...the baby bombers are back


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## Sean K (12 July 2009)

Whoohoo! 

Good win away from home. 

Pears looks like he could fill Fletcher's spot, or even hold down CHB. We haven't had one of those since Merrett! 

Looks good for a September spot. Haven't been there for some time.

More importantly, this team is under development. Years ahead look promising if we can find fill ins for Lloyd, Lucus and Fletcher. Although, they might still have a couple of years left also.


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## ivant (12 July 2009)

kennas said:


> Whoohoo!
> 
> Good win away from home.
> 
> ...




That was a good win! I was thinking we would lose. At least I got my tip this week (I tips the Dons every week ). We definitely need replacements for Lloyd and Fletcher. Although we have a good thing going at the moment. Everyone has the ability to play everywhere. We seem to be doing what St Kilda is doing, just not as well. St Kilda is Reminiscent of the Dutch soccer team with Total Football, and I think we are not too far behind. A year or two and we should get some consistency.


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## Real1ty (12 July 2009)

We already have our replacement for Fletcher. Pears and Hurley. FB and CHB for the next 10+ years.

Hooker will be back up if one of them is injured.

Lloyd and Lucas are the ones that we need to find replacements for but if Neagle and Gumbleton come on as expected we are set.

Still is also an option but is more of a long term player and was picked as one of the youngest players we have ever drafted but is quite talented.


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## Sean K (12 July 2009)

Real1ty said:


> Lloyd and Lucas are the ones that we need to find replacements for but if Neagle and Gumbleton come on as expected we are set.



Grown a Wiewaldt, or buy one perhaps? Our salary cap can't be too demanding. The Old Three should take big cuts to ensure we go forward. The two L's should have taken them already really!!!!!


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## sammy84 (2 August 2009)

sammy84 said:


> I will say it again...the baby bombers are back




What muppet said this! :crap:


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## Savoy Special (2 August 2009)

We (WCE) were tanking aswell!! Could you tell at the beginning of the 3rd Q.?


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## Sean K (3 August 2009)

Looks like it was a pretty average game for us on paper. Who played forward to replace Lloyd? Although he's had a shocking year, he takes their best tall back so would have been a big loss.


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## Duckman#72 (3 August 2009)

kennas said:


> Looks like it was a pretty average game for us on paper. Who played forward to replace Lloyd? Although he's had a shocking year, he takes their best tall back so would have been a big loss.




Absolutely shocking.

We had some important outs yesterday, but I thought that our depth was better than that. 

In hindsight, the speed of Houli and Jetta might have been a better option in Perth seeing Davey was out. Lovett-Murray was disappointing.

Staton is playing injured, Welsh had one of his worst games in a couple of seasons, Watson and Lovatt are carrying the midfield and Ryder is out on his feet. Pears and Hurley tried hard but looked like they had played about 25 games between them (which they have). But the pressure on the backline was to do with the poor defensive efforts of the midfield. There was very little pressure applied.

As for our forward structure, well..........., what can I say about our forward structure? Neagle had limited opportunities but at no stage looked dangerous. I really worry that this is "THE GUY" for our future plans. 

Without sounding harsh - now that the season is all but gone, Lucas should retire with a send off game at the G next week, so that they can throw experience at a new player.

I can't understand the criticism of Fletcher. He would still be a walk up starter in most backlines in the League. He was again one of the few that tried hard yesterday. He was constantly having to mark up 2 opponents. I can't comprehend Patrick Smiths arguments that Essendon will never go forward under Knights with Fletcher in the side as the team is not playing like Knights wants (Lloyd and Lucas I can swallow but not Fletcher). He is one of the most flexible players going around. Plays talls, shorts, great at rebounding, and ultra reliable and consistent. It is too simplistic to say that he doesn't get the best forward, as he regularly plays the floating role where is assisting the whole backline. In effect he is helping mark the best forward and taking his own payer as well. 

I heard James Hird say "On the Counch" a couple of weeks ago that Fletcher was THE BEST PLAYER he ever played with.

Duckman


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## Sean K (5 August 2009)

One pill found in Lovett-Murrays house and he's on the front page for a drug charge, linked to a major syndicate doing all sorts of stuff. I suspect it was his, but his brother could have left it there by 'accident' I suppose. 

Maybe he should have fessed up and he would have just got a slap on the wrist and it might have been one of his strikes the AFL hides under the table. 

If he's totally innocent, the publicity is a bit untidy. 

In two minds about how the media have presented this. When I saw the headline I thought he must have been caught with kilo of coke under his jumper. One ecstacy tablet?


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## GumbyLearner (5 August 2009)

Essendon

Have some good friends who are supporters incl. my Nan? 

Not this year or the next!

Go the SAINTS!

Use to hold onto dad's leg within the animal cage down at Moorabin and this is OUR YEAR!!!!!!


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## Duckman#72 (10 August 2009)

Almost time for reflection on this year.......and if you only saw the highlights, it would suggest a successful season.

We beat arch rivals Carlton twice (once a thumping), we beat Collingwood in a thriller on Anzac Day, we beat reigning premiers Hawthorn halfway into the season and battled well against top of the table St Kilda. 

However our lows have been very low. At the start of the season we lost a very winable game to North and in the last few weeks lost to Richmond and West Coast in spectacularly unimpressive fashion, and only managed a draw against Brisbane after being up 14 points with 4 minutes to go.  

It has been very disappointing that our players have had so little fire in the belly when the finals are calling. 

On a positive note - they do play the Saints well and are one of the teams that have traditionally been a hoodoo side. One big push this week and they might just get the season back on track. It would be a huge irony if they did win as the whole season has been littered with wins they shouldn't have had and losses that they shouldn't have had. Why not one more!!! 

Changes for next year - trade/drop Hooker (has too much of the "Kepler Bradley" about him), Lucas gone(finished), Jetta trade if we can, Laycock trade if possible, McVeigh trade if possible.

Duckman


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## Sean K (11 August 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> Changes for next year - trade/drop Hooker (has too much of the "Kepler Bradley" about him), Lucas gone(finished), Jetta trade if we can, Laycock trade if possible, McVeigh trade if possible.
> 
> Duckman



Trade McVeigh? I thought he was considered Captain material?


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## munga (11 August 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> Almost time for reflection on this year.......and if you only saw the highlights, it would suggest a successful season.
> 
> We beat arch rivals Carlton twice (once a thumping), we beat Collingwood in a thriller on Anzac Day, we beat reigning premiers Hawthorn halfway into the season and battled well against top of the table St Kilda.
> 
> ...




for a trade how about u take back bradley and soloman no more bomber rejecys for freo thks


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## Duckman#72 (11 August 2009)

kennas said:


> Trade McVeigh? I thought he was considered Captain material?




Although he has been injured for large parts of this year - he has been "off the pace" in 2009. But it is more than his form, it has been the way he has carried himself on and off the field and at this stage he looks less like a leader than he did 12 months ago.

With blokes like Stanton, Watson and Prismall coming through with ability and leadership it might be an opportunity to get a decent return through a trade. I'd like to get a proven forward or adequate backup ruckman from somewhere. As far as Captain is concerned - we still have Hille to come back into the side.

Munga - imagine how good your forward line would look if you had Hooker and Bradley as the "tall timbers" and Solomon on a flank.  Add Houli in the midfield for speed and McVeigh for the in and unders. You guys would be flying!!! You wouldn't even miss Hill and Palmer who you traded to Essendon.

Duckman


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## nomore4s (11 August 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> Changes for next year - trade/drop Hooker (has too much of the "Kepler Bradley" about him)




We'll take Hooker and you can have Thorpe. Might help fix your forward problems


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## Duckman#72 (11 August 2009)

nomore4s said:


> We'll take Hooker and you can have Thorpe. Might help fix your forward problems




We are not going to give Hooker away!!!! What about that other bloke you've got....what's his name? Buddy??


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## Sean K (11 August 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> We are not going to give Hooker away!!!! What about that other bloke you've got....what's his name? Buddy??



No thanks. I paid up big for him this year in the Super Coach thingy and he let the team down big time.


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## munga (11 August 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> Munga - imagine how good your forward line would look if you had Hooker and Bradley as the "tall timbers" and Solomon on a flank.  Add Houli in the midfield for speed and McVeigh for the in and unders. You guys would be flying!!! You wouldn't even miss Hill and Palmer who you traded to Essendon.
> 
> Duckman




tell you what duckman we will give you sandilands and peake for ryder, hooker and your 1st round draft pick. what a deal maybe then we might start to win some clearences


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## Duckman#72 (11 August 2009)

munga said:


> tell you what duckman we will give you sandilands and peake for ryder, hooker and your 1st round draft pick. what a deal maybe then we might start to win some clearences




If you throw in Hasleby....along with Sandilands and Peake, I would concede Ryder, Hooker and 2nd Round Draft pick.

Unless Ryder gets some decent backup and career management by the Bombers- his development is going to be stuffed. Week in week out he is getting worn into the ground.


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## Real1ty (11 August 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> Unless Ryder gets some decent backup and career management by the Bombers- his development is going to be stuffed. Week in week out he is getting worn into the ground.




Geez mate, you make it sound like we are trying to destroy him on purpose

Hille out injured all year and Laycock out all year.

Bock is a long term project player who is skinnier that a praying mantis and would be severely injured if subjected to senior football.

Hooker has been his back up as have a couple of other players here and there but Hooker was also spent last week and had to be rested and we couldn't play Bellchambers as he was suspended by the VFL tribunal

What do you suggest we should do?

If anything the added responsibility has finally shaken some of the casualness out of him and helped him develop his game more than anything.


----------



## travwj (11 August 2009)

I agree with Real1ty one, this year will be good for Ryders future, it will and has matured him as a player, and he is no longer as casual as in previous seasons. Next year with Hille back, and having Ryder as back up will be a great ruck combo.

Trav


----------



## Duckman#72 (12 August 2009)

Real1ty said:


> If anything the added responsibility has finally shaken some of the casualness out of him and helped him develop his game more than anything.




I don't entirely agree. I think Ryder has had 1-2 absolutely sensational games this year, followed by 4-5 very good games, but the remainder of the year has been tired, lethargic and with minimal impact. 

A lot of that is not Ryders fault - he has had to wear the brunt of the ruck work. My point is that the match committee's eyes lit up after the Anzac Day game, and they've tried to ride Ryder home to the finals since then. Bellchambers hasn't been used much, IMO because they wanted to make finals and weren't so interested in developing a young ruckman.

Has Ryder improved and developed as a player this year? You bet he has, but don't judge him on 4 great games midway through the year as a baramoter as where he is at.

Duckman


----------



## Real1ty (13 August 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> I don't entirely agree. I think Ryder has had 1-2 absolutely sensational games this year, followed by 4-5 very good games, but the remainder of the year has been tired, lethargic and with minimal impact.
> 
> A lot of that is not Ryders fault - he has had to wear the brunt of the ruck work. *My point is that the match committee's eyes lit up after the Anzac Day game, and they've tried to ride Ryder home to the finals since then. *Bellchambers hasn't been used much, IMO because they wanted to make finals and weren't so interested in developing a young ruckman.
> 
> ...




The part of your criticism i can't understand is that you are acting like Ryder hasn't had a back up, he has, Hooker.

Your original statement was this


> Unless Ryder gets some decent backup and career management by the Bombers- his development is going to be stuffed. Week in week out he is getting worn into the ground.




Now imo, you actually didn't know Bellchambers was suspended and were complaining about him not playing the week we dropped Hooker for a rest.

As for the other weeks when Bellchambers could have played consider this.

In the games he did play this year as a back up to Ryder here are his stats.

He averages at 1.5 kicks, 3 handballs, 2 marks and 7 hitouts a game.

He can virtually only play as a ruckman, although he can go forward and kick a goal here and there but our forward line has been pretty slow as is and he would mostly rest on the bench.

Compare that to Hooker, who is very versatile and while not as good a ruckman as Bellchambers offers a hell of a lot more option.

Here are Hookers stats

4.8 kicks, 10.8 handballs, 5 marks and 2.8 hitouts a game and rests as a defender and helps to provide some run out of defense.

Bellchambers was also injured during a game and missed 4 weeks due to a knee injury and has now played back in the VFL for 3 weeks and imo will be selected this week but that is just my guess.



> My point is that the match committee's eyes lit up after the Anzac Day game, and they've tried to ride Ryder home to the finals since then. Bellchambers hasn't been used much, IMO because they wanted to make finals and weren't so interested in developing a young ruckman.




Should we not try and make finals?

Should we play a bloke that gives us very little other than winning a few taps so we can rest Ryder and miss the finals?

Why has Clarke from Brisbane been able to ruck the same amount of time as Ryder by himself with assistance from Brennan and Ryder can't?

Has it hurt Brisbanes chances at making the finals?

Ryder has a lot of talent but very little desire to push himself and give his all. He needs a rocket up his ass but we can't give it to him atm unfortunately. 

Against Clarke on Saturday he allowed him to run into our defense cutting off leads and taking goal saving marks while Ryder trotted around doing sfa.

So i ask you, considering Bellchambers injury and suspension would you have played him in front of Hooker for the games he has been available in?


----------



## Duckman#72 (13 August 2009)

Real1ty said:


> The part of your criticism i can't understand is that you are acting like Ryder hasn't had a back up, he has, Hooker.
> 
> Why has Clarke from Brisbane been able to ruck the same amount of time as Ryder by himself with assistance from Brennan and Ryder can't?
> 
> ...




Hi Realty

All good points, but I don't think you can compare Brisbane's ruck combo to Essendon. Clark is more like a "true ruckman" or primary ruckman. Ryder is more comparable to Brennan in agility, flexiblity, etc.  

To me Brennan is much more like Ryder - a good backup ruckman. Once Hille comes back they will make a good combination but Hille is your "Bigman". So Essendon has a "backup ruckman" in Ryder playing the primary ruckman role with help from Hooker and whoever they can get (including Lucas!!) 

I had been saying all through the year that despite the low stats Bellchambers was quite serviceable around the ground. I know that Bellchambers has had injury problems and has been suspended but that doesn't explain all the weeks he hasn't been chosen. Using Bendigo form to select the Firsts is garbage. The sooner Essendon cut their ties and go their  own way the better. It is an embarrassment for the club.

As an Essendon supporter I have been burnt by "flexible, utility" players such as Mark Bolton and Kepler Bradley as too often they are good enough to play many positions but not good enough to own one. 

To answer you question - yes I would have played Bellchambers more often during the season. I thought his run of games in May was very encouraging. I'm not in Melbourne (or Victoria for that matter) so I'm not privy to what is going on at the club but my opinion is that they just said to Ryder - "you ruck the majority of the game". Too many times this season I've seen Watson and Hocking contesting ruck contests!!!

You also mentioned that Bellchambers can really only play ruck and maybe go forward. Well our forward line has hardly set the world on fire? It could have been worth a shot.

My view isn't too far from yours Rea1ty - sounds like you think Ryder can develop a lot further yet. 

Duckman


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## Duckman#72 (14 August 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> I had been saying all through the year that despite the low stats Bellchambers was quite serviceable around the ground. I know that Bellchambers has had injury problems and has been suspended but that doesn't explain all the weeks he hasn't been chosen. Using Bendigo form to select the Firsts is garbage. The sooner Essendon cut their ties and go their  own way the better. It is an embarrassment for the club.
> 
> To answer you question - yes I would have played Bellchambers more often during the season. I thought his run of games in May was very encouraging. I'm not in Melbourne (or Victoria for that matter) so I'm not privy to what is going on at the club but my opinion is that they just said to Ryder - "you ruck the majority of the game". Too many times this season I've seen Watson and Hocking contesting ruck contests!!!
> 
> ...




Maybe Matty Knights keeps an eye on the ASF!!!!

As if on cue - this weeks inclusion...........Tom Bellchambers.

Duckman


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## Sean K (14 August 2009)

I see Ryder as a young Goodes.

Let him run as a Ruck Rover next year.


----------



## sammy84 (16 August 2009)

It really is great to be an Essendon supporter


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## Duckman#72 (16 August 2009)

sammy84 said:


> It really is great to be an Essendon supporter




How good was that win!!!!!!!!!!!

Why can't they play with that commitment every week???!!!

Watson - again outstanding. I am astounded by his development into a elite ballwinner. His ability in heavy traffic is brilliant.  B & F for sure.

Hope the injuries to Ryder, Fletcher and Dempsey are relatively minor.

And.......if you can let me indulge a tad........ well done match committee for picking Bellchambers!! He provided decent support for Ryder, and became very useful in the last qtr when Ryder was injured. His position around the ground was very good and he could have made a  bigger impact on the score board if the players were used to looking for him (Neagle and McVeigh).      

Duckman


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## travwj (16 August 2009)

Good win, but lucky in the end to get away with it. Loosing Ryder hurt us in that last quarter. Still in with a shot of the finals if we can keep the momentum over the next 2 weeks.

Trav


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## mazzatelli (17 August 2009)

Proud Bomber supporter here

Kind of ironic that the team that last attempted and went close to going through a season undefeated has thwarted the latest team to attempt the same feat.

If this is a sign of things to come, that loss to the Bulldogs took the pressure off the Bombers and they went on to win the Premiership. Maybe the Saints may follow the same path.


----------



## Sean K (17 August 2009)

Essendon at their best, StK off their game?

Watson is really turning into a great player isn't he. Having he, Stanton, Prismall and Lovett running about looks pretty good. 

Now we just need a captain who gets a touch, and a FF and CHF. Must change to Hille next year, or Stanton. I think the back half is shaping up and will cover Fletcher's slide. 

Looks like a nice recovery is shaping up.


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## munga (17 August 2009)

great win guys
got a new deal for you
how about the entire freo team for ryder and your no 1 draft pick
or is that asking to much


----------



## gav (17 August 2009)

A fantastic win, but remember this same team lost to Richmond and West Coast just weeks ago.  Just putting things into perspective... :

But it does seem things are on the mend down at Windy Hill.  Best of luck for the finals boys.  My team won't be there...


----------



## Duckman#72 (17 August 2009)

kennas said:


> Essendon at their best, StK off their game?
> 
> Watson is really turning into a great player isn't he. Having he, Stanton, Prismall and Lovett running about looks pretty good.
> 
> ...




Essendon only had 6 touches after the first 5mins of the game. Saints completely dominated the term (but didn't show it on the scoreboard - although they went out to a 20 point early lead). 

Essendon beat exposed St Kilda where it hurts - contested possession. As Gav pointed out, this is the side that lost to West Coast and Richmond only weeks earlier. Those losses were extremely disappointing, not just from a result point of view, but from an attitude and hunger viewpoint. It seemed that Essendon were only "fair dinkum" against the Tigers with 10mins to go. 

The Bombers were "switched on" basically from the start against the Saints. They wanted to win more. They played tough accountable footy - pressure, pressure, pressure.

The "young age" of the Bombers told in the end (although injuries played a part), but 3-4 goals of St Kilda came from Essendon kicking backwards, backwards, backwards and getting locked in. 

So to answer your question - Essendon played very well and in the main outplayed St Kilda in the key criteria (tackles/inside 50's/contested possession). 

In my opinion St Kilda's biggest problem was hubris. Not content with resting 7 players in one game - they then started the game with key defender Sam Fisher at full forward as an "experiment". Soon after Essendon got out to a 14 point lead he switched back to defence but to me that gave an insight to what sort of game they thought they would be up for.

Hurley looks a great player. He took a great mark one-on-one with Reiwoldt at a crucial point in the last quarter. No easy task.  Before being injured Fletcher was easily controlling the backline. His "slide" will no doubt come but there is no evidence of it yet. Gerard Healy made the comment yesterday that Fletcher was still one of the most effective defenders and counter attackers in the AFL.  Kennas, he kicked one of his special 60-65m goals from the centre  square last night.    

Duckman


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## Duckman#72 (17 August 2009)

munga said:


> great win guys
> got a new deal for you
> how about the entire freo team for ryder and your no 1 draft pick
> or is that asking to much




Munga, Freo cost me the prerfect round on the weekend. I actually watched  some of your guys playing and the deal is off the table. Freo are #@$%.  I might be biased, but does anyone else out there think Kepler Bradley is worth continually perservering with?

I am starting to think special Bravery Awards should be given out for the Queens Birthday Honour list to all Docker members.

Duckman


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## prawn_86 (17 August 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> Kennas, he kicked one of his special 60-65m goals from the centre  square last night.




Yeh that was an absolute monster of a kick


----------



## munga (18 August 2009)

duckman have a offer for you

i purchased tickets to the freo/bombers match this weekend
why i dont no but u guys are a shoein cause everytime(surprised)
i go freo lose.

if you want them i will post them to you delivered by kepler and sol
and maybe harvey (jury is still out)


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## nomore4s (23 August 2009)

Where did all the Bomber supporters go? There was 10 posts by this time last week:.

I was a Freo supporter for about 2 hours today. Sets up a great game next week, winner takes all (provided Port don't win by 110 points more than the Hawks).

I really doubt the Hawks can play with the intensity required to win this game or a finals match, but I would still love to see a hawks win just to at least see them in the finals and give the young fellas some more experience.

Hopefully we see a cracker of a game either way.


----------



## Duckman#72 (24 August 2009)

nomore4s said:


> Where did all the Bomber supporters go? There was 10 posts by this time last week:.
> 
> I was a Freo supporter for about 2 hours today. Sets up a great game next week, winner takes all (provided Port don't win by 110 points more than the Hawks).
> 
> ...




We are here!!

I told you about a month ago that it would come down to this game Nomores.

This time last week I wrote the question "Why can't we play with that commitment all the time?" Once again, the difference between our best and our worst is frightening. 

I hate to say it but, we are the Eastern Seaboard version of Freo. We are a 6 goal better side in Melbourne.

Todays game was always going to be a challenge after the highs of last week, but to get %$#@ on by Freo like that was pathetic.

The Hawks won't have to do much next week to make the finals Nomores if the Bombers trot that crap out.


----------



## Sean K (24 August 2009)

I'm sure the Hawks will bend over for us. 

We should have 2 players back next week over 6 foot to play tall that we missed against Freo.


----------



## nomore4s (25 August 2009)

Well the AFL should change their name to the ANL - Australian Netball League. I really can't believe Buddy got suspended for that hit, we might as well play touch footy. Byron Pickett would never have played a game under these rules he would have been suspended all the time.

They suspend Buddy for a good hip and shoulder but then Rance has no case to answer for punching Buddy in the face and drawing blood.

It's all a bit of a joke.

<Rant over>

The bombers will be a good chance now you would think, I can't see the Hawks kicking enough goals to win and I think the bombers leg speed will really test the Hawks.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (25 August 2009)

Are Essendon a VFL team or a Soccer team?

Where is Essendon?

gg


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## nomore4s (25 August 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Are Essendon a VFL team or a Soccer team?




All the AFL teams might as well be playing soccer now.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (25 August 2009)

nomore4s said:


> All the AFL teams might as well be playing soccer now.




lol 

I can't talk I'm a Cowboys supporter in the NRL. Imagine how I feel.

gg


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## nomore4s (25 August 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> lol
> 
> I can't talk I'm a Cowboys supporter in the NRL. Imagine how I feel.
> 
> gg




Go the Gold Coast!!!

Yeah that's right I've jumped on the band wagon, I've even got a shirt!


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (26 August 2009)

nomore4s said:


> Go the Gold Coast!!!
> 
> Yeah that's right I've jumped on the band wagon, I've even got a shirt!




check it wasn't made in russia.

gg


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## Sean K (26 August 2009)

Buddy was playing was he? I had him in my Supercoach team and I don't think he scored all year.


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## munga (26 August 2009)

game even now buddy out but the bombers travel will take
its toll. they need lloyd and ryder back and that passion they
had against the saints.

freo fan but hoping the bombers get up over the hawks to shut
up there supporters who claim they are the best team going around
after last year. cats where the best team last year just had one
off day sadly


----------



## sammy84 (29 August 2009)

Game winning performance by Matthew Lloyd. That bump fired us right up.

Finals time
:jump::jump::jump::jump::jump::jump::jump::jump:


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## nomore4s (29 August 2009)

sammy84 said:


> Game winning performance by Matthew Lloyd. That bump fired us right up.




Well done Essendon.

The Hawks tried hard but just run out of legs being 2 men down for a half a game of footy. If Lloyd doesn't get at least 4 weeks it's a joke. That is the type of bump they are trying to get rid of - player with head over the footy and gets cleaned up front on. Ryder might also be in trouble.

The umpiring was terrible as well which didn't help Hawthorn, still fuming over McGlynn getting his head taken off twice in about 2 min and the second time getting penalised for holding the ball and right in front of goal at a critical stage of the game


----------



## prawn_86 (29 August 2009)

Lloyd and Ryder suspended. Suits me 

Crows to towel up the Bombers in Adelaide next week.


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## Duckman#72 (29 August 2009)

nomore4s said:


> Well done Essendon.
> 
> The Hawks tried hard but just run out of legs being 2 men down for a half a game of footy. If Lloyd doesn't get at least 4 weeks it's a joke. That is the type of bump they are trying to get rid of - player with head over the footy and gets cleaned up front on. Ryder might also be in trouble.
> 
> The umpiring was terrible as well which didn't help Hawthorn, still fuming over McGlynn getting his head taken off twice in about 2 min and the second time getting penalised for holding the ball and right in front of goal at a critical stage of the game




Hi Nomores

I agree - Lloyd's in trouble. I think 3 weeks. It is the next level above Buddy. Reckless but not malicious. Don't forget Buddy only got two weeks because he contested. He was initially given the option of one but stupidly challenged it. It is quite clear under the rules - he had to go. If you have the option to tackle and you bump and make contact with the head - your in trouble. Simple as that. It was back luck for Hawks but - that's football.

I wouldn't be as worried about Ryder as I would be for Chance Bateman's strike to Lloyd's face. He's gone for early next year.

I agree the umpiring was woeful. For both sides. The 50m penalties and "gimme" free kicks that Hawthorn got were probably offset by the ones the Bombers got. I can't stand Robert Walls commentating on Essendon games. It shouldn't happen. He hates Bombers. And when you put him in with self confessed Hawthorn supporter, Stephen Quartermain, almost makes the telecast unwatchable.  

Good effort by the Bombers to make the finals. Considering "AWAY RECORD" I think we can say that we will finish 8th. Although Adelaide will have all the pressure. Bombers will not be expected to even go close so that may enable them to play with some renewed freedom. The always play much better when they are not favourites.

Hurley - star in the making!!!

Duckman


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## Duckman#72 (29 August 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Are Essendon a VFL team or a Soccer team?
> 
> Where is Essendon?
> 
> gg




LOL GG!!!

You have to love the "pockets of resistence".

Once the AFL gets their $1 Billion dollars for the new TV rights, the second team commences in Sydney and the AFL role out the new Salary Cap funding across the 16 teams, the other codes will be be spectators in the "National Market".

I'd rather be a Bomber supporter in Queensland than being a Cowboys supporter in Adelaide(or Perth, or Darwin, or Melbourne, or come to think of it....anywhere south of Mackay!!!)

The AFL need to be commended. The latest funding agreement has stopped the whiteanting of the new Sydney side by the Swans because they know that the AFL will bankroll them. The Swans are now making sounds about how good it will be to have the rivalry of a second side.   

Duckman


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## munga (29 August 2009)

nomore4s said:


> Well done Essendon.
> 
> The Hawks tried hard but just run out of legs being 2 men down for a half a game of footy. If Lloyd doesn't get at least 4 weeks it's a joke. That is the type of bump they are trying to get rid of - player with head over the footy and gets cleaned up front on. Ryder might also be in trouble.
> 
> The umpiring was terrible as well which didn't help Hawthorn, still fuming over McGlynn getting his head taken off twice in about 2 min and the second time getting penalised for holding the ball and right in front of goal at a critical stage of the game




geez thats a turnaround. you guys have been crying all week about buddy.


----------



## nomore4s (29 August 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> Hurley - star in the making!!!




I'll agree with that, but Nealge or whatever his name is, is a serious dud - I can't believe he gets a game.


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## Sean K (30 August 2009)

Ryder suspended? Huh?

Sounds like Lloyd will go, but no loss.

Bad luck, Nomore4s, missing after winning the granny last year must be frustrating. Must ask questions of the team management on this one. Took their eye right off the ball. At least nomore4s for the team this year.


----------



## nomore4s (30 August 2009)

kennas said:


> Ryder suspended? Huh?
> 
> Sounds like Lloyd will go, but no loss.
> 
> Bad luck, Nomore4s, missing after winning the granny last year must be frustrating. Must ask questions of the team management on this one. Took their eye right off the ball. At least nomore4s for the team this year.




Yeah a little frustrating but in a way it is good. We still have one of the youngest lists in the AFL and we got to blood plenty of them this year. Team management no doubt stuffed up during offseason/preseason last year.

Not playing finals could be a blessing in disguise as well, we wouldn't have threatened for the flag anyway and we would have been short next week - Hodge & Bateman off one leg, Sewell would have probably missed and still no Franklin or Roughead. Hopefully this is a good reality check for everyone at the club.

We will now get the chance to get everyone over the injuries we have carried all year and get a good preseason into everyone.


----------



## Duckman#72 (30 August 2009)

nomore4s said:


> I'll agree with that, but Nealge or whatever his name is, is a serious dud - I can't believe he gets a game.




Hi Nomores

If you look back through this thread I have been saying the exact same thing since the start of the season. Others (who seem to be closer to Victoria) say that he is just missing a good preseason and that he is playing with injury. 

I can't see a star forward to build a finals team around in Neagle. He seems to have good hands but only gets 3-4 touches a game. Then again everyone was saying how slow Watson is, only 3 years ago.

You mentioned about "are we playing soccer or football" a couple of posts ago. Did you see the dive by the North player to get the 50m penalty last night. 

Duckman


----------



## beamstas (30 August 2009)

S.Lonergan is a star.


----------



## Duckman#72 (30 August 2009)

kennas said:


> Ryder suspended? Huh?
> 
> Sounds like Lloyd will go, but no loss.




With all due respect Kennas, with you being out of the country I think some of your comments regarding certain players are a little too "black and white", as if all your information is being recieved from Stats Sheets on Monday mornings. 

For example, your opinion of Fletcher. His form over the past 6 weeks since coming back from injury has been outstanding. And despite LLoyd's "great games" being few are far between these days, there is no way you can say he is "no loss" if he doesn't play. It is arguable that he started the comeback yesterday just through his presence. And if you don't play him, now that Lucas is gone, the forward line looks very thin. On current form I'd play him before Neagle every time.

I agree his days are numbered, but he should be afforded more respect, even in these twilight years, than being called "no loss".

Duckman


----------



## Duckman#72 (30 August 2009)

beamstas said:


> S.Lonergan is a star.




And what about that bloke that used to play on him in Juniors!!!???? Word is that he could have been anything!!!!!


----------



## beamstas (30 August 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> And what about that bloke that used to play on him in Juniors!!!???? Word is that he could have been anything!!!!!




Had a chat to sam the other day, do they get these guys on the weights 24/7? He's gotten huge since i saw him last a couple of years ago.

I reckon he'll grow and become a important midfielder, the commentators give him a good rap nearly every week. His tackling is insane.


----------



## Real1ty (30 August 2009)

nomore4s said:


> I'll agree with that, but Nealge or whatever his name is, is a serious dud - I can't believe he gets a game.




That must be why we just signed him to a new contract and the GC recruiter, Scott Clayton, had been in touch with his management 

He has played 11 games this year and has averaged 3.8 marks a game and 1.7 goals.

Extrapolate that out to 22 games and you have a young, big raw kid kicking 38 goals for the year on a modified training program, not a bad effort.

He is only going to get better.


----------



## Duckman#72 (30 August 2009)

Real1ty said:


> That must be why we just signed him to a new contract and the GC recruiter, Scott Clayton, had been in touch with his management




Yes but to be fair Real1ty, considering that Hunt is the GC's big signing to date, Scott Clayton is going through EVERY player up for contract in the AFL. Name player or not!!


----------



## nomore4s (30 August 2009)

lol, lots of duds get resigned, he actually needs to start delivering.



Real1ty said:


> He is only going to get better.




I'm not so sure about that. While he is slow, for me that's not the problem, it's the fact his work rate is poor (I actually think he is lazy). I don't care if he isn't fit or had a pre-season he can still work alot harder then he is.

While he might have potential I not so sure he can take the next step but for Essendons sake I hope I'm wrong.


----------



## Real1ty (30 August 2009)

nomore4s said:


> lol, lots of duds get resigned, he actually needs to start delivering.
> I'm not so sure about that. While he is slow, for me that's not the problem, it's the fact his work rate is poor (I actually think he is lazy). I don't care if he isn't fit or had a pre-season he can still work alot harder then he is.
> 
> While he might have potential I not so sure he can take the next step but for Essendons sake I hope I'm wrong.






nomore4s said:


> lol, lots of duds get resigned, he actually needs to start delivering.




Do they? i would be interested in you naming some duds that get resigned?

Now i can name thousands of players that get resigned and turn out to be duds but none of them were proven duds when resigned.

The point is that no club signs a player they know is **** but not all players make the grade and in fact far more don't make it than do.

You say he needs to start delivering, then why doesn't the same apply to Dowler who has played 2 more games than Neagle?

What about Mitch Thorpe a very high draft choice who has done absolutely nothing to date?

Why are Hawthorn persevering with them? 

The clubs know how much talent and and potential they have that's why they keep them. Now turning that potential into performance is another thing.

Why does he need to start delivering?

How many goals did Lloyd, Fevola, Dunstall, Lockett kick in their first 11 games?

Lloyd - 20 
Dunstall - 24
Fevola - 15
Lockett - 18
*Neagle - 19*

Supporters are far too impatient with big KPP players and they take time, sometimes lots of time.

Jay has had many set backs with his body and is still on a modified training program but his fitness is slowly improving.

Yes he needs to lose some weight and work harder and he has a long way to go and he may not even make it in the end but to call him a dud is wrong.

I still have a few contacts left within afl clubs and Jays talent is well known outside of Essendon.


----------



## Real1ty (30 August 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> Yes but to be fair Real1ty, considering that Hunt is the GC's big signing to date, Scott Clayton is going through EVERY player up for contract in the AFL. Name player or not!!




Going through a list of players and making contact with their manager to gauge interest in a possible move are two different things.


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## nomore4s (30 August 2009)

Touchy.

Dowler is yet to prove himself but has shown some signs this year. Mitch Thorp is a dud and a huge disappointment and will be delisted or traded at the end of this year imo. Don't worry I think there are a couple of duds on Hawthorns list that need to start performing or be moved on.

You can have all the talent in the world but if you're not willing to work hard enough to make the most of that talent you won't be anything more then a bit player.

Neagle reminds me of Laycock, looks good at times but looks disinterested most of the time - neither of them work hard enough imo. 

How long then before the heat should be applied to him? My point was that in his current shape & form he's lucky to be getting a game.

I hope he gets a good pre-season under his belt this year and performs next year just for you.


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## Real1ty (30 August 2009)

nomore4s said:


> Touchy.
> 
> Dowler is yet to prove himself but has shown some signs this year. Mitch Thorp is a dud and a huge disappointment and will be delisted or traded at the end of this year imo. Don't worry I think there are a couple of duds on Hawthorns list that need to start performing or be moved on.
> 
> ...




I'm going generalise in some areas here and not all of this is directed at you but the average supporter.

You say Thorpe is a dud.

Have you seen him playing juniors in Tassie? Have you seen him playing for the Box Hill Hawks regularly? Are you aware just how many injuries he has had so far?

Well you club has as have all the other AFL clubs and they can make an informed decision as whether someone is a dud or not, but you or the majority of supporters who call players duds can't, but it doesn't stop them.

Of course they will end up being right a lot of the time because most players don't make the grade and the average year span for a recruit is 4 years.



> You can have all the talent in the world but if you're not willing to work hard enough to make the most of that talent you won't be anything more then a bit player.
> 
> Neagle reminds me of Laycock, looks good at times but looks disinterested most of the time - neither of them work hard enough imo.




This is mostly true but not always.

Lockett was the laziest player you could see and for most of his career so was fevola but were they bit players? Of course not as they had so much more talent that it made up for their short comings.

I am not disagreeing with you that Neagle has to work harder and can look lazy and sometimes IS lazy but i am aware of his past history and some of the reasons for this so i can make an informed judgement.

Laycock has far less excuses than Neagle but also about half the talent.


> How long then before the heat should be applied to him? My point was that in his current shape & form he's lucky to be getting a game.




But that wasn't your point, your point was he was a "serious dud" and you don't know how he gets a game. Very different argument.

He gets long enough for his body to be able to give him a chance to show what he has on a consistent basis or his body gets to the stage where it won't let him play any longer. Considering we have just signed him to a 2 year contract he has at least 2 years.

Recruiters follow these kids sometimes from the age of 12 all the way through and they don't sign or resign duds it's just AFL is a very hard game to succeed in and the majority don't.

If being annoyed by people making broad uninformed statements makes me touchy, then so be it.


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## dbcok (31 August 2009)

Reality...somehow I agree with you,
As a crows supporter I had doubts whether Bock or Vince would ever really make it in the Afl(both played for local club Woodville West Torrens)
Since then I have faith in the talent scouts and recruiters that have much more insight and homework on players than I have.


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## Sean K (31 August 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> With all due respect Kennas, with you being out of the country I think some of your comments regarding certain players are a little too "black and white", as if all your information is being recieved from Stats Sheets on Monday mornings.
> 
> For example, your opinion of Fletcher. His form over the past 6 weeks since coming back from injury has been outstanding. And despite LLoyd's "great games" being few are far between these days, there is no way you can say he is "no loss" if he doesn't play. It is arguable that he started the comeback yesterday just through his presence. And if you don't play him, now that Lucas is gone, the forward line looks very thin. On current form I'd play him before Neagle every time.
> 
> ...



I do read more that the stats sheet. Bomber TV is handy when overseas.

Yes, very difficult from oveseas, and I don't have a complete handle of what's going on.

Can't remember what I said about Fletcher, I doubt I would have bagged him, a legend, and still awesome value anywhere on the ground.

I may be off the mark with Lloyd. Yes, he is a 'presence'. I think I want my Captain and full forward to be more than that though. Maybe he's inspiring the others to go out and get reported on the eve of the finals? 

On the surface of it, I think he's let us down this year as the top played player. And I think he would be thinking that too, and thus, why he's probably going to retire. Maybe I'm being disrespectful of a club champion, but sometimes you just have to call it as you see it. But, as you say, I'm a long way away. 

Don't get me wrong Duckman, I am a mad Essendon supporter, and past player. Well, U/19s and twos anyway.


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## Duckman#72 (31 August 2009)

kennas said:


> I may be off the mark with Lloyd. Yes, he is a 'presence'. I think I want my Captain and full forward to be more than that though. Maybe he's inspiring the others to go out and get reported on the eve of the finals?
> 
> Don't get me wrong Duckman, I am a mad Essendon supporter, and past player. Well, U/19s and twos anyway.




No problems there Kennas.  I know we both see through the "Red and Black Goggles".

In the cold hard light of "the day after" the bias against Essendon by the Channel 10 is even more apparent. On Saturday Walls and Quartermain were saying things like..."Will this be the last time we will ever see Lloyd play? If he gets 6-8 weeks he must consider if it will be worth going on."

On the Offsiders yesterday, Caroline Wilson said that he will possibly just get 2 weeks, and Gerard Whately even suggested there was an argument to get him off completely. The bigger story to them was the poor behaviour and ridiculous stance taken by Hawthorn officials, players and supporters. There is talk of Campbell Brown being fined by the AFL for his comments. And it was pretty poor form by Clarkson to come out after the game and say "Essendon don't deserve to be in the eight" - after beating Hawks twice, Carlton twice, St Kilda, Collingwood and drawing with Brisbane during the season!!!

It wasn't even as if Lloyd king hit him, he was just hard at the ball. Brereton, Diper, Vandenberg etc would must be embarrassed by the outcry.

It is a pity more Hawks don't follow Nomores example.

Duckman


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## gav (31 August 2009)

All you guys just wish you had Natanui and LeCras! :


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## DAZT49 (31 August 2009)

kennas,
OMG now you even barrack for my footy team!!
Are you stalking me lol


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## nomore4s (31 August 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> The bigger story to them was the poor behaviour and ridiculous stance taken by Hawthorn officials, players and supporters. There is talk of Campbell Brown being fined by the AFL for his comments.




I must admit as a Hawthorn supporter I'm pretty embarassed by the way Hawthorn and Campbell Brown have carried on about the whole matter. While it wasn't good it wasn't that bad either.

I wonder what Brown's old man is thinking?


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## Ashsaege (31 August 2009)

The crows are going to destroy Essendon this Friday night! I will be at Footy Park singing pride of South Australia!

I dont follow Essendon, but i have an old mate Jay Nash who plays for them, what has happened to him? Injured?


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## Sean K (31 August 2009)

Ashsaege said:


> The crows are going to destroy Essendon this Friday night! I will be at Footy Park singing pride of South Australia!
> 
> I dont follow Essendon, but i have an old mate Jay Nash who plays for them, what has happened to him? Injured?



Good luck, you will probably beat us.

Jay must have been a good friend.


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## nomore4s (31 August 2009)

Ashsaege said:


> I dont follow Essendon, but i have an old mate Jay Nash who plays for them, what has happened to him? Injured?




He's a dud, lol:


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## Ashsaege (31 August 2009)

nomore4s said:


> He's a dud, lol:




... must have been a dud if Essendon was the only team that wanted him


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## Real1ty (31 August 2009)

nomore4s said:


> He's a dud, lol:








Ashsaege said:


> The crows are going to destroy Essendon this Friday night! I will be at Footy Park singing pride of South Australia!
> 
> I dont follow Essendon, but i have an old mate Jay Nash who plays for them, what has happened to him? Injured?




He's been in the reserves as he pays his man no respect and only wants to play one way football, attacking.

He also turns the ball over regularly which in todays football is not on.

He was pulled out of the reserves side this week, along with several other players, as we have a lot of injuries and possible suspensions so they could be on standby for a recall this week if needed.

He might get a call up this week if things don't go well this week.


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## munga (31 August 2009)

nomore4s said:


> I must admit as a Hawthorn supporter I'm pretty embarassed by the way Hawthorn and Campbell Brown have carried on about the whole matter. While it wasn't good it wasn't that bad either.
> 
> I wonder what Brown's old man is thinking?




if it was browns old man he would of ripped the mic from
lloyds hands and decked him then and there.


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## Ashsaege (31 August 2009)

munga said:


> if it was browns old man he would of ripped the mic from
> lloyds hands and decked him then and there.




Pretty stupid thing to say by Brown, considering Brown has been suspended in the past for belting Lloyd. The spotlight has now turned on Brown and he looks like the snipper now.


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## nomore4s (1 September 2009)

Llyod, Ryder & Lonergan all out for this weeks game against the Crows. Ouch, leaves the bombers pretty under manned now.

I'm barracking for the Bulldogs now, would love to see them win a flag, especially for Brad Johnson.


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## Prospector (1 September 2009)

Woo Hoo.  Crows are gonna winn!


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## Ashsaege (1 September 2009)

There's been a lot of talk in the media that crows are going to smash essendon this week... which might be the case, but coming from a Crows Fan point of view I dont like it! This might put the pressure off the crows and they may take it too easy this week. Essendon did beat St Kilda a few weeks ago!


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## prawn_86 (1 September 2009)

Yeh this is just the type of game the Crows love to lose. Finals (love losing them) and easy (not often they belt a team, they have a knack of losing from a winnable position). 

Will be watching with interest Fri night.


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## Ashsaege (1 September 2009)

prawn_86 said:


> Yeh this is just the type of game the Crows love to lose. Finals (love losing them) and easy (not often they belt a team, they have a knack of losing from a winnable position).
> 
> Will be watching with interest Fri night.




Crows have a pretty poor finals record under Neil Craig, but only one way to improve it and i think that's what they have been focusing on! I will be at the game


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## Mofra (1 September 2009)

nomore4s said:


> I'm barracking for the Bulldogs now, would love to see them win a flag, especially for Brad Johnson.



You are an gentleman, are probably fabuously handsome & intelligent and your judgement on this issue is faultless 

(PS Welcome aboard for 4 weeks)


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## nomore4s (1 September 2009)

Mofra said:


> You are an gentleman, are probably fabuously handsome & intelligent and your judgement on this issue is faultless
> 
> (PS Welcome aboard for 4 weeks)




lol, I'll have to show that post to the other half

Bulldogs are kinda my second team anyway, due to playing games up here but I've always had a soft spot for them because they have always struggled as a club.


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## Ashsaege (1 September 2009)

nomore4s said:


> lol, I'll have to show that post to the other half
> 
> Bulldogs are kinda my second team anyway, due to playing games up here but I've always had a soft spot for them because they have always struggled as a club.




If i had to barrack for a Vic footy team it would be the bulldogs... few ex crow players in there!


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## Duckman#72 (1 September 2009)

Mofra said:


> You are an gentleman, are probably fabuously handsome & intelligent and your judgement on this issue is faultless
> 
> (PS Welcome aboard for 4 weeks)




What is this "fabulously handsome and intelligent" rubbish??!!!

To be a real "Doggie" you just need to own a beanie, stonewash jeans, a coathanger and hang out at servos.

Duckman


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## Duckman#72 (1 September 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> To be a real "Doggie" you just need to own a beanie, stonewash jeans, a coathanger and hang out at servos.




My sincerest apologies to those Bulldogs fans, I've just described the sterotypical profile of a Magpie!!! 

I'm terribly sorry!!!


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## dbcok (1 September 2009)

Prospector said:


> Woo Hoo.  Crows are gonna winn!




Sounds like a closet Port Adelaide supporter...trying to put the hex on the Crows-claiming victory before the event.


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## tech/a (1 September 2009)

May I just pass on my condolences to all Essendon Supporters.
A great year considering.

Crows---the dark horse.
May just dismantle a few dreams with cold calculating precision.

And if they dont quite make it this year----my condolences to all those expecting a premiership next year---and year after.


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## Duckman#72 (1 September 2009)

tech/a said:


> May I just pass on my condolences to all Essendon Supporters.
> A great year considering.
> 
> Crows---the dark horse.
> ...




Keep it up Crows supporters!!! 

We don't have a hope against the mighty Adelaide. Your experience and recent finals history suggests that we shouldn't even turn up.

I only hope that we can make it a match for you like we did for the supporters of Carlton, Collingwood, St Kilda and Hawthorn during the year when we went as major underdogs. 

Duckman


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## gav (1 September 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> I only hope that we can make it a match for you like we did for the supporters of Carlton, Collingwood, St Kilda and Hawthorn during the year when we went as major underdogs.




...and against Richmond, West Coast, and FREMANTLE? 

LOL @ including Hawthorn in the same sentence as those other teams...



Adelaide by 65 points, if not more :


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## tech/a (1 September 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> Keep it up Crows supporters!!!
> 
> We don't have a hope against the mighty Adelaide. Your experience and recent finals history suggests that we shouldn't even turn up.
> 
> ...




Duckky

My view of Finals footy is simple really.

Win and you deserve to be there--lose you dont.
Your either good enough or your not.

Essendon beat the Crows then you certainly deserve to be there.
Youve got the hard road. I'll be there.
May the best state--errr side win!


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## Prospector (1 September 2009)

dbcok said:


> Sounds like a closet Port Adelaide supporter...trying to put the hex on the Crows-claiming victory before the event.




That is probably the most insulting thing anyone has ever said to me! :


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## doogie_goes_off (1 September 2009)

Aaah... the ASF version of finals fever, the Bombers fan club lives in desperation and hope. Adelaide are a sure bet. Lloyd is a cheat, glad they finally rubbed him out. Go Cats.


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## Duckman#72 (1 September 2009)

gav said:


> ...and against Richmond, West Coast, and FREMANTLE?




Hi Gav

We didn't start major underdogs against Richmond, West Coast  and Fremantle. You have emphasised my point!! 

When we won against Collingwood, Carlton, St Kilda and Hawthorn(in Round 12 - yes Gav, when the Hawks still had Roughhead, Franklin etc and were still in the mix) we started at crazy odds. 

We play our most free flowing, creative,  attacking and dangerous footy when we are not expected to even be in the contest.  

Tech - your view of football is simple and true. The best team on the day will win. I hope for the Crows supporters sake, their guys come up mentally for Friday night.  

Can someone please explain how Bateman can only get one week for an intentional cheap strike to the face (off the ball as well) and not be considered a sniper. I'll have to ask Brown.

Duckman


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## Duckman#72 (1 September 2009)

doogie_goes_off said:


> . Lloyd is a cheat, glad they finally rubbed him out. Go Cats




 Lloyd is one of the softest "tough forwards" in the history of the game. 

If you want some cheats try, Silvagni and Lynch. Silvagni being named Fullback of the Century is an utter disgrace. Both players wrestled more people in their careers than Hulk Hogan. I will go as far as saying Silvagni wouldn't get a kick in today's game. 

Lloyd accidentally, but recklessly, bumped someone in the head. At least he hit Sewell front on. Someone like Ablett, in his day, was a master of the behind play "king hit".

Duckman


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## munga (2 September 2009)

tech/a said:


> May I just pass on my condolences to all Essendon Supporters.
> A great year considering.
> 
> .




totally agree. the bombers will get smashed this weekend after such
a brutal game last week. but they can hold there heads high for a
great season.

i dont think the crows will get past week 2.


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## Duckman#72 (3 September 2009)

I'll be off line this weekend. 

Would all those Adelaide supporters go easy on this thread at about 10.00pm tomorrow night.

Good luck to all supporters. Hopefully we win with a 55m torp from Tom Bellchambers after the siren!!!

Duckman


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## Peanut (3 September 2009)

Crows should have a win tomorrow nite, but anything can happen in footy.

Agree the bombers have done well this year, was not overly keen on Matty Knights but think he has done a good job for you guys this year.

Go crows!!


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## nomore4s (4 September 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> Good luck to all supporters. Hopefully we win with a 55m torp from Tom Bellchambers after the siren!!!
> 
> Duckman




Pretty hard when they don't even play him. Not sure what the bombers were thinking not playing a ruckman. Surely it would have been good for Bellchambers development at the very least. And they brought in Quinn, wtf?


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## munga (4 September 2009)

munga said:


> totally agree. the bombers will get smashed this weekend after such
> a brutal game last week. but they can hold there heads high for a
> great season.
> 
> .




sorry did i repeat myself


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## Sean K (4 September 2009)

They must have just flipped a coin on Bellchambers and Quin and it came up 'do something stupid'. Really weird decision.  Maybe they just realised Bellchambers would be destroyed anyway. No, never seen him play duckman, just read the bad reports. 

Was it a really poor result, or did the Crows jus play that well? Good confindence booster for them going into the next round.


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## GumbyLearner (4 September 2009)

kennas said:


> They must have just flipped a coin on Bellchambers and Quin and it came up 'do something stupid'. Really weird decision.  Maybe they just realised Bellchambers would be destroyed anyway. No, never seen him play duckman, just read the bad reports.
> 
> Was it a really poor result, or did the Crows jus play that well? Good confindence booster for them going into the next round.




16 goals is a thumping.

Bombers have a great running game though & a young hard squad , they will be a side to reckon with in 2010/11/12.


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## munga (5 September 2009)

kennas said:


> Was it a really poor result, or did the Crows jus play that well? Good confindence booster for them going into the next round.




bombers were gallant but stuffed from last week
crows just run run and run
run and talent will catch with them next week


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## prawn_86 (5 September 2009)

The bombers put up a good fight in the first quarter, but the crows fitness and discipline over-ran them after that.

Next weeks game of Crows V collingwood or St Kilda will be very interesting providing the Crows play their best (as they have the last 2 weeks)


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## mazzatelli (5 September 2009)

kennas said:


> Was it a really poor result, or did the Crows jus play that well? Good confindence booster for them going into the next round.




I thought the Crows played well. Their passing and marking was sharper than the Bombers. They looked alot more dangerous on the ball going forward than our boys.

There is always next year. Hope Lloyd plays on!!!


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## Sean K (5 September 2009)

mazzatelli said:


> There is always next year. Hope Lloyd plays on!!!



Nice new avatar maz! 

I hope Llyod plays on too, but relinquishes the captaincy. 

A one year contract where he can run around freely. Would be good for everyone I think. 

He should just play CHF for the year with a lisense to roam. With the younger talent coming through he would be an excellent  second tier asset. 

Then have Fletcher roaming CHB with the other youngsters on key players...

And, Hille back with Ryder as the 2nd ruck! whoohoo!!

Where would you play Ryder? 

Actually, maybe he goes to a key position or plays as a RR.

Imagine him as a RR?

Awesome!!!!


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## nomore4s (5 September 2009)

kennas said:


> They must have just flipped a coin on Bellchambers and Quin and it came up 'do something stupid'. Really weird decision.  Maybe they just realised Bellchambers would be destroyed anyway. No, never seen him play duckman, just read the bad reports.
> 
> Was it a really poor result, or did the Crows jus play that well? Good confindence booster for them going into the next round.




Bellchambers might not be the best ruckman going around atm but at least he would have created more of a contest at the stoppages.

The Crows looked really good and they now have the one thing they have been missing - a potent forward line, with Tippet, Porplyzia, Hentschel & Burton and guys like Goodwin, Thompson, Knights, Douglas who can also go forward and kick goals. They are a real danger team imo. I actually think St Kilda could go out in straight sets if they lose to the Pies today.

As well as the Crows played the Bombers were pretty ordinary - lacked alot of spark and fight after the 1st quarter.


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## tech/a (5 September 2009)

Was at the game.

Don't know what happens to the Crows at Quarter time but it's a bit of a habit.
50,000 on your side certainly helps.
Essendon's wheels fell off clearly at 5 goals down.
The quick early goal in the 3rd quarter just killed them.
They gave up at around the 20 min mark of the 2nd Q.

The crows only real concern is Collingwood.
Dont be suprised to see then head to head in the Final.

However if knocked out the Crows will only be stronger next year and the year after.

May the very best of 2009 win.


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## Prospector (5 September 2009)

kennas said:


> Was it a really poor result, or did the Crows jus play that well? Good confindence booster for them going into the next round.



The Crows were awesome.  The ruck hit outs were ridiculous - the Crows could do whatever they liked because Essendon provided no competition.  What were they thinking going into a game with no ruckman.  Even someone tall in the middle would have been useful.

But as I said, the Crows were awesome.   Here we go, here we go Camry Crows......


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## Judd (5 September 2009)

Prospector said:


> The Crows were awesome.  The ruck hit outs were ridiculous - the Crows could do whatever they liked because Essendon provided no competition.  What were they thinking going into a game with no ruckman.  Even someone tall in the middle would have been useful.
> 
> But as I said, the Crows were awesome.   Here we go, here we go Camry Crows......




Look youse bsatards,  if we hadn't had so many injuries, had better coaching, a few more talented players, better luck and less unfavourable umpire decisions, the Might D's coulda been contenders.  On that basis, I want a re-run of all rounds since 1954.


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## Prospector (5 September 2009)

Judd said:


> Look youse bsatards,  if we hadn't had so many injuries, had better coaching, a few more talented players, better luck and less unfavourable umpire decisions, the Might D's coulda been contenders.  On that basis, I want a re-run of all rounds since 1954.




Yup, and in what, 15 years since the Crows started they have won 2 premierships.  Bring it on!


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## JAKSPARA (5 September 2009)

hi guys 
in line with mazattelli and kennas..... yep hope Lloyd plays on (would be a crime for him to hang up the boots) aka Hirdy (oh where are you Jimmy sob sob we miss you sob sob .....oh sorry back on track) and take on the father figure role at the club also a pay cut so we can afford an A lister . So we have Hille or Watson as captain or the man who i think gets overlooked a bit Andrew Welsh ( he would be a great leader at our club on and off the field). Ryder rotating in the ruck then he could pretty much play around the ground in any position  (maybe footballs first allrounder). Hurley and Neagle need to be given time to develop as our gun forwards after Lloyd/Lucas era. Now dont crucify me but would be willing to let Mcveigh go for a decent pick(but no idea what his contracts like) just feel he lacks the discipline going forward.

We are still developing and feel we have a couple of years yet before we should expect too much. The upside if we dont do so well over the next few years.....the coach cops the blame,gets sacked (dont get me wrong got respect for Knighta) and we bring in the prodigal son Mr. James Hird himself!!!!


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## GumbyLearner (5 September 2009)

The other elim final is live here

http://watchme.bloggum.com/


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## Duckman#72 (6 September 2009)

nomore4s said:


> Bellchambers might not be the best ruckman going around atm but at least he would have created more of a contest at the stoppages.




Arrived back. Picked up the coverage on Friday night, just after Crows took the lead with 2 mins to go in the first quarter!! (As luck would have it).

Bombers had no hope - Watson double teamed and we played no ruckman. One was brilliant tactics by Crows the other was brilliantly stupid by Essendon.

I just could not believe it - no ruckman. The selection committee got everything they deserved. Pity it wasn't 100 points for good measure. I am absolutely gobsmacked and disgusted. 

Sure, with the Crows playing in the form they are showing, the result was never really in doubt, but to go into a final without a ruckman was absolutely mental. It smacked of optimism at best and arrogance at worst. Even if they went into the game with a "Plan B" it might have been OK. But the game plan seemed to be just - "let Hooker contest".  

Just as I've been saying, Hooker is developing into a player that Mark Bolton, Peter Cransberg and Kepler Bradley would be proud of. 

I know that injury and suspension didn't help our season, but I agree with Nomores and Prospector - what would have been the harm in playing Bellchambers. Typical of the decisions the selection committee have been making all year! Kennas - where are the "bad reports" about Bellchambers? Are you talking bad stats or bad press. And what do you mean by "destroyed" Kennas? Since when has the logic been - We are weak in the ruck.....hey I've got an idea...let's not play one!!!!  If you want bad stats - read Friday nights game. 

No joking - Essendon would have been better not contesting and just giving away a free kick at every centre bounce - at least that would have allowed us time to man up, and flood back into their forward line!! Granted Bellchambers got smashed against Sandilands in his first game back in 10 weeks, but what a week to bring him back in!! Against the reigning All- Australian ruckman!!

While we are at it, I'll refer to my post a few months ago and say that McVeigh could be traded for the right price (wouldn't take much), along with Welsh. And I'll go as far as saying get rid of Bellchambers as well, if he is THAT BAD, that when Hille, Laycock and Ryder are unavailable going into an elimination final, the selection committee prefers to go in the ruck with a utility player and no backup - he must be completely %^$%ing hopeless and not worth a spot on the list.   

Lovatt-Murray wins the gong for the most clangers in a match where it took quite a few to win the award. 

For all the poor performances by Essendon - well done Crows. By far the better team and looking in great form. Good luck Crows supporters, I will be a temporary South Australian next weekend when I hope you knock out the Pies.

Duckman


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## Garpal Gumnut (6 September 2009)

Excuse me I'm a Queenslander.

Where is Essendon?

I know its somewhere between Tullamarine Airport and Moonee Ponds.

But being between those two is no reason to have a religion going.

gg


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## Knobby22 (6 September 2009)

Ah but you don't understand that Esssendon, Strathmore, Ascot Vale and Moonee Ponds have the equivalent of God's own walking the earth. 

Bit like some sections of Cairns


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## Garpal Gumnut (6 September 2009)

Knobby22 said:


> Ah but you don't understand that Esssendon, Strathmore, Ascot Vale and Moonee Ponds have the equivalent of God's own walking the earth.
> 
> Bit like some sections of Cairns




Kiwis eh, thought as much.

gg


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## Real1ty (6 September 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> Granted Bellchambers got smashed against Sandilands in his first game back in 10 weeks, but what a week to bring him back in!! Against the reigning All- Australian ruckman!!
> Duckman




I really wonder if you do actually watch games.

One post you call for Bellchambers to come back in when he is suspended and injured and now you say he made his comeback for the first time in 10 weeks against Freo, where as he actually played the week before that against StKilda.

It's always a good idea if you are going to criticise, to at least have your facts right but of course this thread is full of uninformed opinions, so i will leave you guys to it as i would hate to let the truth get in the way of a good story.


----------



## JAKSPARA (6 September 2009)

Hi duckman

Agreed on the Mcveigh call as posted earlier (glad im not the only bombers fan with that feeling). But have to disagree with Welsh, his discipline and hardwork ethic goes mostly unnoticed (lucky to be playing this season after breaking his leg pre-season,sheer hardwork and determination has allowed him to get back even if not at 100% yet - now theres a message to send to the young guns!!) IMO he has leadership potential - infact i believe Sheeds was talking about his potential in this department when he first came to the club. Now LAYCOCK, oh please how many last chances do we give him. Would be happy to trade him for a bag of half time oranges


----------



## JAKSPARA (6 September 2009)

sorry forgot to add to the Welsh debate.... remember round 13???  2nd game back he absolutely creamed Judd - he deserves alot more credit than he gets.

anyway heres to next year


----------



## Duckman#72 (6 September 2009)

Real1ty said:


> One post you call for Bellchambers to come back in when he is suspended and injured and now you say he made his comeback for the first time in 10 weeks against Freo, where as he actually played the week before that against StKilda.




Right back at you Real1ty. When did I ever suggest that Bellchambers should be playing when he was suspended. I did say that I was disappointed that they didn't play him when they had the chance during the season. Exactly the same as this weekend!!! You misinterpreted me a month or two ago and you've done it again today. I didn't say specific games, I was referring to in general when they had the chance to select him.

Sorry I was so surprised that they picked him for the St Kilda match that it slipped my mind. My point was that they obviously dropped him after the Freo preformance. Didn't they Real1ty?? Since I don't watch the matches, I've got no idea. Maybe Nomores might have a better idea? 

Tell me Real1ty - are you one of the brilliant minds that thinks that going into a final without a ruckman (and please don't tell me that Hooker is a ruckman of any future potential)is better than going into a final with one. 

I don't wish to fight with anyone on this thread and everyone is absolutely entitled to their opinion but am I really out of line with my criticism of the team selection. Real1ty - as Hookers father, I think you and I are bound to cross paths.

Every business needs a performance review and Essendon are no exception. I love the Bombers and will always do so - but as a whole hearted supporter and country member that spends most weekends (not) watching their games, I am entitled to a "buy-in" on their performance. If the criticism offends you and your son, then  I'm sorry but ......so be it. 
Duckman


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## JAKSPARA (6 September 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> Lovatt-Murray wins the gong for the most clangers in a match where it took quite a few to win the award.
> 
> Duckman




From bombers post match....
"O’Donnell said he was encouraged by the performance of Nathan Lovett-Murray throughout tonight’s match and was pleased with his ability to stay competitive even when the game was well beyond doubt.



“Nathan Lovett-Murray tried hard all day. He was in there running hard at all times and was trying to get it going our way. He should be really proud of his last month of football because he has done really well,” he said."


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## Duckman#72 (6 September 2009)

JAKSPARA said:


> From bombers post match....
> "O’Donnell said he was encouraged by the performance of Nathan Lovett-Murray throughout tonight’s match and was pleased with his ability to stay competitive even when the game was well beyond doubt.
> 
> 
> ...




I didn't say he didn't try. I said he had the most clangers! In some ways I agree with O'Donnell - he was very trying.  To be fair to Nathan, he had a go and at least he was "in the play". Unfortunately, he had one of those nights where things didn't go his way. 

There was one 5 minute period in the third quarter when I thought he was directly responsible for 3 straight Adelaide goals (2 free kicks against and a turnover). 

He certainly wasn't a passenger - but who played better, the guy who only touched it 10 times at 80% efficiency, or the player who knocked up getting it, with 30 touches at 50% efficiency. I will also admit that the reason I probably ended up picking on him was the fact he was one of the players trying hard to play under the team rules and ended up "forcing it" a couple of times too many.  

Duckman


----------



## Sean K (7 September 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Excuse me I'm a Queenslander.
> 
> Where is Essendon?
> 
> ...



I spent 3 years praying there from 1986-88. This is one of those threads that if you don't believe, you just have to comprehend that others do.


----------



## Prospector (7 September 2009)

kennas said:


> I spent 3 years praying there from 1986-88. This is one of those threads that if you don't believe, you just have to comprehend that others do.




Ya should have prayed  on Friday night Kennas, they needed every bit of extra help they could get.  (where is the rofl icon when you need it)


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## Duckman#72 (7 September 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> I know that injury and suspension didn't help our season, but I agree with Nomores and Prospector - what would have been the harm in playing Bellchambers. Typical of the decisions the selection committee have been making all year!
> 
> And I'll go as far as saying get rid of Bellchambers as well, if he is THAT BAD, that when Hille, Laycock and Ryder are unavailable going into an elimination final, the selection committee prefers to go in the ruck with a utility player and no backup - he must be completely %^$%ing hopeless and not worth a spot on the list.



From Patrick Smith today in The Australian.....

" Another whose future at Essendon must be clouded is Tom Bellchambers. Knights and his team selection panel opted to leave out the young ruckman Bellchambers on Friday night, and thus Adelaide's Ivan Maric and James Sellar met no opposition at stoppages. If Bellchambers could not make that Essendon side - Cale Hooker and Nathan Lovett-Murray were dragooned into the ruck and floundered - then there can be no scenario when he ever would. It was a selection mistake, as was plonking Irish recruit Michael Quinn into a final at the madhouse that is AAMI stadium.

These were two poor selection decisions and while they hardly impacted on the result.....it was an indication that, strategically, Essendon needs to be more sophisticated."

Patrick Smith must not watch the Essendon games either. 

Duckman


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## Sean K (7 September 2009)

Duckman#72 said:


> Patrick Smith must not watch the Essendon games either.
> 
> Duckman



Crikey, I saw it from Peru!


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## Duckman#72 (23 September 2009)

Well done to Matthew LLoyd - a champion of the club right to the end.

I wish him well for retirement.

One way or another, 2010 will be an interesting year. 

Hopefully Gumbleton, Hurley, Pears, Ryder and Neagle can continue to grow and develop as key players. With Lucas and Lloyd gone there is no safety net anymore.  

Duckman


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## mazzatelli (25 September 2009)

Oh no!!
I only caught wind of the news today.

Farewell Matty LLoyd, what a champion:bowdown:
Feels like losing Hird all over again


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## JAKSPARA (23 December 2009)

*JOBE WATSON CAPTAIN!!! ANDREW WELSH VICE CAPTAIN!!!*

Fantastic choices i believe. Was always for Welshy to be promoted. Even when some were saying to get rid of him. Watch him fully fit and in this role, maybe a few eating their words Got some good prospects in the draft and also cut loose some less committed players. 2010 looking exciting although still think we have 2-3 years before we will hit our straps. GL all!!!


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## JAKSPARA (27 December 2009)

Well all i can say is aren't we glad Lovett went to the Saints. Effectively we got Williams for nothing and Saints may have given away an early draft pick for nothing Thought it funny they picked him up in the first place given his lack of discipline. Well done to Knighta and co for sticking to their guns and only backing players that want to be part of the club and give 100%. Couldnt have happened to a nicer team


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## Duckman#72 (12 January 2010)

JAKSPARA said:


> Well all i can say is aren't we glad Lovett went to the Saints. Effectively we got Williams for nothing and Saints may have given away an early draft pick for nothing Thought it funny they picked him up in the first place given his lack of discipline. Well done to Knighta and co for sticking to their guns and only backing players that want to be part of the club and give 100%. Couldnt have happened to a nicer team




I agree - the decision by Knights is a great one. Although it raised some eyebrows late last year, he stuck to his guns and felt that Lovett was not part of a culture that they wanted at Bombers. 

St Kilda on the other hand must be absolutely filthy. Gave away a decent draft pick, as well as big contract(which can be undone) as well as the distraction and bad publicity for the club.

Congratulations Jobe - it might be the making of him. He will do the Bombers proud I'm sure.  As for Weshy - I have no doubt that he is a wonderful clubman, but so was Mark Bolton. I really hope the added responsibility helps his development (with McPhee going Welsh becomes an even more important link). He needs a decent pre-season hopefully he can take the next step.

The draw looks hard for the Bombers and is a worry!! Not many "gimmes". As the Herald Sun wrote...."If the Bombers make the 8 in 2010, they will have earned their spot"!!!! At least we only get 3 interstate games to compensate for double ups against last years Top 8 (and Hawks). 

Duckman


----------



## Putty7 (12 January 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> I agree - the decision by Knights is a great one. Although it raised some eyebrows late last year, he stuck to his guns and felt that Lovett was not part of a culture that they wanted at Bombers.
> 
> St Kilda on the other hand must be absolutely filthy. Gave away a decent draft pick, as well as big contract(which can be undone) as well as the distraction and bad publicity for the club.
> 
> ...




Not an easy draw Duckman but the lack of travel is great even though I am interstate, we have done our fair share of travel over the years compared to a lot of the other Victoria based clubs, a lot of younger players stood up last year and will now have another pre seaon under their belts, a lot of hard decisions were made that while emotional will benefit the club in the long run. I think Jobe will make a great Captain and I believe it will be a great year for him again regardless of the added load, getting Hille back this season will only bolster the ruck and he will be keen to get back to his best, Ryder gained a year of development as a ruckman during Hilles absence and with Hille back we have two mobile Ruckman again, looks like another exciting year as the Bombers consolidate on last year.


----------



## Sean K (12 January 2010)

Putty7 said:


> getting Hille back this season will only bolster the ruck and he will be keen to get back to his best, Ryder gained a year of development as a ruckman during Hilles absence and with Hille back we have two mobile Ruckman again,



Will be very interesting to see how these two are played. Hille will go back to Ruck I suppose, but what about Ryder? Does he become the second string out of the pocket, or does he turn into a key position, or what? Back to CHB? Or...Wing?


----------



## Duckman#72 (12 January 2010)

Putty7 said:


> Not an easy draw Duckman but the lack of travel is great even though I am interstate, we have done our fair share of travel over the years compared to a lot of the other Victoria based clubs, a lot of younger players stood up last year and will now have another pre seaon under their belts, a lot of hard decisions were made that while emotional will benefit the club in the long run. I think Jobe will make a great Captain and I believe it will be a great year for him again regardless of the added load, getting Hille back this season will only bolster the ruck and he will be keen to get back to his best, Ryder gained a year of development as a ruckman during Hilles absence and with Hille back we have two mobile Ruckman again, looks like another exciting year as the Bombers consolidate on last year.




Fully agree with your comments about Hille. Having a dominant "big man" to help Ryder no end. I think Watson will carry the captaincy with ease. Yes, some of the younger players will be all the better "for the run" last year. Hopefully we can get an effective forward line working together. I'm not as concerned about our backline or midfield. It will be an interesting and hopefully exciting year. I really hope I'm forced to apologise to Neagle through the sheer brillance of his performances this year.

Duckman


----------



## Duckman#72 (12 January 2010)

kennas said:


> Will be very interesting to see how these two are played. Hille will go back to Ruck I suppose, but what about Ryder? Does he become the second string out of the pocket, or does he turn into a key position, or what? Back to CHB? Or...Wing?




I agree - difficult. Hille has to play ruck because he is first and foremost a ruckman. Ryder is more likely to play a KP role - however I'm struggling to think of many players that have successfully held down a KP post as well as been a successful ruck.

Maybe Ryder will have developed more since last year - but it was the makings of him breaking out of a confined role and have him following as a ruckman. It will be intriguing to see how the Bomber coaching staff play him. We may well see some experimental stuff in the pre-season to accomodate them both.

Duckman


----------



## Putty7 (12 January 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> I agree - difficult. Hille has to play ruck because he is first and foremost a ruckman. Ryder is more likely to play a KP role - however I'm struggling to think of many players that have successfully held down a KP post as well as been a successful ruck.
> 
> Maybe Ryder will have developed more since last year - but it was the makings of him breaking out of a confined role and have him following as a ruckman. It will be intriguing to see how the Bomber coaching staff play him. We may well see some experimental stuff in the pre-season to accomodate them both.
> 
> Duckman




I thought Ryder was an excellent backman before he had to step up to fulltime ruck duties, that said he has done alright up forward to since being given some freedom, Hille has shown he can kick goals, I think when Hille gets fully fit we will have the luxury of 2 good ruckmen with different styles to match up against, with the recruiting of more midfielders (to be tried out this year), ruckman become essential to Knights running game plan and even though Ryder stepped up so well last year, he wasn't as dominant as Hille.


----------



## Duckman#72 (12 January 2010)

Putty7 said:


> I thought Ryder was an excellent backman before he had to step up to fulltime ruck duties, that said he has done alright up forward to since being given some freedom, Hille has shown he can kick goals, I think when Hille gets fully fit we will have the luxury of 2 good ruckmen with different styles to match up against, with the recruiting of more midfielders (to be tried out this year), ruckman become essential to Knights running game plan and even though Ryder stepped up so well last year, he wasn't as dominant as Hille.




Considering that our forward line should consist of a possible combination of Neagle, Gumbleton, Hurley, Monfries and Williams - I think a backline spot would best suit Ryder. He has a touch of "Fletch" about him, floating across or over the pack to either mark or spoil.

I think Ryder will be a brillant "pinch-hitter" in the ruck going forward. He just got very little help last year and opposition teams worked him a) out, and b) into the ground.

I still believe that Ryder made massive improvements to his game last year by having the freedom to run the ground. The coaching staff need to make sure that his game isn't stifled by taking a back seat role to Hille. If Hille plays to his best form our midfield will make big inroads into the opposition this year (which in turn will assist our forwards). 

It was certainly tough for our forwards in 2009 with the delivery they were getting. Both the midfielders and forwards did as well as they could under the circumstances. If you don't know what I mean - have a look at the first final against Adelaide and see how a midfield and forward line can struggle without a decent ruckman making a contest at the breaks.

Duckman


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## Duckman#72 (12 January 2010)

Sniffffffffffffffffff..............................

Is that goanna oil I can smell?  Hmmmm get a whiff of those musty old footy socks and boots?  Now.....where did I put the mouthguard?

WHAT!!! 

Oh come on....it can't be still be early January

Come on the Dons!!!!!! Can't wait.

Duckman


----------



## Putty7 (12 January 2010)

I remember a few years ago reading a comment Sheeds made to someone about having found a new Polly Farmer in his recruiting, can't help but think he wasn't far wrong with his assessment of Ryder, agree Duckman it's hard enough for a seasoned ruckman to handle the bulk load of ruck work and they get worked over week in week out, not many teams get to the business end without 2 good ruckman to share the load over the season. I would think Hille would spend some time up forward for the first half of the season as he gets conditioned, Ryder will still have to shoulder the bulk of the ruck work for a little while yet while they get Hille right.


----------



## Gspot (12 January 2010)

Putty7 said:


> Not an easy draw Duckman but the lack of travel is great even though I am interstate, we have done our fair share of travel over the years compared to a lot of the other Victoria based clubs, a lot of younger players stood up last year and will now have another pre seaon under their belts, a lot of hard decisions were made that while emotional will benefit the club in the long run. I think Jobe will make a great Captain and I believe it will be a great year for him again regardless of the added load, getting Hille back this season will only bolster the ruck and he will be keen to get back to his best, Ryder gained a year of development as a ruckman during Hilles absence and with Hille back we have two mobile Ruckman again, looks like another exciting year as the Bombers consolidate on last year.




As an Eagle supporter, I find it  funny how Vic clubs don't like to travel. Makes the comp a bit of a joke when we travel back and forth every second week. 
Shows why the Eagles are a great club, to still win Premierships with such a handicap.


----------



## Duckman#72 (12 January 2010)

Gspot said:


> As an Eagle supporter, I find it  funny how Vic clubs don't like to travel. Makes the comp a bit of a joke when we travel back and forth every second week.
> Shows why the Eagles are a great club, to still win Premierships with such a handicap.




It is not that Victorian clubs don't like to travel, it is the opposite. Essendon love travelling, unfortunately they really get into the holiday mode a little too much and spend most of their Saturday's and Sundays interstate sightseeing and wandering aimlessly around famous Australian sporting grounds (such as WACA, SCG, AAMI Stadium, GABBA, etc). 

Most Victorian teams travel poorly Gspot. It is an unfair advantage that the interstate clubs have. At least West Coast has a home ground. I don't think that is fair. Victorian clubs don't have a home ground advantage for the majority of their games. Whereas every second week West Coast is playing someone with a poor travelling record. 

The more I think about it........yes the comp is a joke....when are the AFL going to stop handing things on a silver platter to the interstate clubs!  

Duckman


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## Putty7 (12 January 2010)

Gspot said:


> As an Eagle supporter, I find it  funny how Vic clubs don't like to travel. Makes the comp a bit of a joke when we travel back and forth every second week.
> Shows why the Eagles are a great club, to still win Premierships with such a handicap.




Essendon usually play both the Eagles and Dorkers over here once and both in Vic once, whats unfair about that ??


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## Duckman#72 (12 January 2010)

Putty7 said:


> I would think Hille would spend some time up forward for the first half of the season as he gets conditioned, Ryder will still have to shoulder the bulk of the ruck work for a little while yet while they get Hille right.




Unfortunately Neagle is going to be without a full pre-season conditioning AGAIN, after his groin surgery late last year. Of all the players who would benefit from a solid pre-season to get fit.......it of course would have to be Neagle who suffers the injury!!!

Duckman


----------



## Putty7 (12 January 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> Unfortunately Neagle is going to be without a full pre-season conditioning AGAIN, after his groin surgery late last year. Of all the players who would benefit from a solid pre-season to get fit.......it of course would have to be Neagle who suffers the injury!!!
> 
> Duckman





I'm still not sold that he is our great white hope as a full forward but I will be happy to be proved wrong, they should have kept Lloyd for one last year at full forward and given him the incentive to kick 1000 career goals in his last year with some hopefully better disposal into the forward line coming in 2010.


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## Gspot (13 January 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> It is not that Victorian clubs don't like to travel, it is the opposite. Essendon love travelling, unfortunately they really get into the holiday mode a little too much and spend most of their Saturday's and Sundays interstate sightseeing and wandering aimlessly around famous Australian sporting grounds (such as WACA, SCG, AAMI Stadium, GABBA, etc).
> 
> Most Victorian teams travel poorly Gspot. It is an unfair advantage that the interstate clubs have. At least West Coast has a home ground. I don't think that is fair. Victorian clubs don't have a home ground advantage for the majority of their games. Whereas every second week West Coast is playing someone with a poor travelling record.
> 
> ...




Everyone who has played for a vic club and a wa club says the same thing. "the travel factor is really hard." (You wouldn't hear that on the east coast, because of vic ingnorance)
They don't say playing Subiaco oval is really hard or the scg is really hard, just flying 4-6 hours at high altitude after a bruising game.
 If Vic clubs like the Bulldogs have to travel to WA twice within a couple of weeks it's a huge factor, that makes the news. However the fact the Eagles and Dockers do it every second week is forgotten about, (deliberately).
If your teams crap and needs a dunghill like Windy Hill to get an advantage, to be competative, well that ain't good for the game. 
But the AFL, is a joke of a comp compared to other leagues, dom or int.


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## travwj (13 January 2010)

GSpot what you have said sounds like every eagle supporter. Your team was good..but not anymore. Yes the eagles and dockers travel every second week, so they should be used to it. Windy Hill wasn't the best ground...but Subiaco is not a lot better... I live in Perth and have to deal with all the whinging eagles supporters on a daily basis... The eagles are very hard done by.

My 

Trav


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## Gspot (13 January 2010)

travwj said:


> GSpot what you have said sounds like every eagle supporter. Your team was good..but not anymore. Yes the eagles and dockers travel every second week, so they should be used to it. Windy Hill wasn't the best ground...but Subiaco is not a lot better... I live in Perth and have to deal with all the whinging eagles supporters on a daily basis... The eagles are very hard done by.




My 
True Trav in the fact Subiaco is a disgrace. The stands are a joke.
The Afl and WA should concentrate more on getting this sorted out, as so many WA footy fans miss out going to a game. Unfortunately getting 3000 to the gold coast is more important to 'fat faced Demetriou.'
As far as whinging goes, lets get 5 interstate (no vics) people on the AFL board, as well as getting a CEO, and dep ceo from outside of vic. Lets also make it compulsory that 1 final is played outside Vic during finals, so even if you deserve to play home you don't, and while we're at it let's get more vic teams playing in Perth in concective away games.
THEN YOU WILL SEE WHAT WHINGING IS!


----------



## Duckman#72 (14 January 2010)

Gspot said:


> My
> True Trav in the fact Subiaco is a disgrace. The stands are a joke.
> The Afl and WA should concentrate more on getting this sorted out, as so many WA footy fans miss out going to a game. Unfortunately getting 3000 to the gold coast is more important to 'fat faced Demetriou.'
> As far as whinging goes, lets get 5 interstate (no vics) people on the AFL board, as well as getting a CEO, and dep ceo from outside of vic. Lets also make it compulsory that 1 final is played outside Vic during finals, so even if you deserve to play home you don't, and while we're at it let's get more vic teams playing in Perth in concective away games.
> THEN YOU WILL SEE WHAT WHINGING IS!





Gspot, the only person whinging on this thread is you. All I said was that it was good we only had 3 interstate games (because as every Essendon supporter knows - we seem to be a 50% worse side when travelling interstate).   

You are calling Demetriou names, you are complaining about the lack of interstate games Victorian teams play,  you are complaining about the lack of back to back travel the Victorian teams have, you are complaining about the structure of the finals, you are complaining about the Subiaco ground, you are complaining about the make up of the AFL Board.........(need I go on)

Gee whiz - supporters of Victorian clubs get called the biggest whingers.... but we aren't even in the same weight division as you Eaagles boys!!! 

Duckman


----------



## Sean K (14 January 2010)

Anyone care to start constructing a starting line up this year for interest sake, or is it too fluid?


----------



## Putty7 (14 January 2010)

Maybe the Weagle boys could start their own thread and go sook over there instead of ruining the ambience in the Essendon thread


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## Sean K (14 January 2010)

kennas said:


> Anyone care to start constructing a starting line up this year for interest sake, or is it too fluid?



I'll start with something:

B. Lovett Murray, Pears, Atkinson  
HB. Slattery, Ryder, Fletcher
C. Winderlich, Dyson, McVeigh  
HF. Davey, Hurley, Monfries
F. Welsh, Neagle, Williams
Fol. Hille, Watson, Stanton

Bench. Dempsey, Zaharakis, Skipworth, Hocking, Hooker, Prismell, Lonergan, Laycock, Jetta, Daniher 

Thoughts?


----------



## nomore4s (14 January 2010)

kennas said:


> I'll start with something:
> 
> B. Lovett Murray, Pears, Atkinson
> HB. Slattery, Ryder, Fletcher
> ...




No idea and don't really care:

Would just like to see Anthony Long get a game or two next year but I doubt he'll be ready. Hope he goes well for you blokes, was hoping Hawthorn would pick him up to play with his cousin - could make a great rebounding half back.

Nice kid too.


----------



## Duckman#72 (14 January 2010)

kennas said:


> Anyone care to start constructing a starting line up this year for interest sake, or is it too fluid?




Great idea Kennas. I'll start the ball rolling:


FF:      Davey, Williams, Ryder
HF:      Monfries, Gumbleton, Winderlich
C:        Reimers, Stanton, Dyson
HB:      Dempsey, Hurley, Fletcher
FB:      Welsh, Pears, Daniher

Followers: Hille, Watson, McVeigh

Interchange: Lovett-Murray, Atkinson, Prismall, Lonergan

Emergencies: Hocking, Hooker, Neagle, Slattery, Houli

Ones to watch: I'd like to see Melsham get some game time this year. He looks promising.

Just a couple of assumptions: This is probably in an ideal world with the list we have. This line up is half (who I would like to see there) and half (who will actually play there). For players like Gumbleton that have played very little - I am taking on trust that he will be Centre Half Forward. I accept that it is on paper, crazy to slot a 5 game player in the hardest position on the field.  

Some honourable mentions to Hooker and Hocking who were regulars last year. They could easily be thrown in Hooker for Daniher perhaps. Hocking for Lonergan. I'm happy to accept those. I've thrown Ryder in the forward line as I think we need some height up there. It depends on where you play Hurley as well. Maybe Hooker can cover CHB and let Hurlley play forward. Or alternatively let Flecther go to CHB, Ryder to HBF and let Hurley play forward.

As for the midfield, I've got McVeigh, Watson, Lonergan, Stanton (and Welsh) rotating as the workhorses and I have Dyson, Prismall, Davey, Winderlich and Reimers rotating as the speedy, flashy ball deliverers. 

If all players were fit, healthy and had some pre-season - I'd be fairly happy with this line up. Anyway it is a starting point - feel free to tear it apart. I've only done it quickly (the first time I left out Watson before quickly correctiing) 

Duckman


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## Duckman#72 (14 January 2010)

kennas said:


> I'll start with something:
> 
> B. Lovett Murray, Pears, Atkinson
> HB. Slattery, Ryder, Fletcher
> ...




We are not too far away from each other Kennas (at least in our best 18). As I said with todays modern game it is a real question mark as to where their best positions are.

Of your starting 18 - I have 14 in my starting line up and 2 of your others on my bench. The two omissions from my team to yours - Neagle and Slattery. If I picked my team on "Who will be the line up" rather than "Who I think our best line up will be" I'd have Neagle in there. As for Slattery - I have no issue with his inclusion - he was a solid contributor last year. I tossed up between Alkinson and Slattery for the last spot on the bench and went with Atkinson due to his speed and improvement over the closing part of last season.

Duckman


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## Duckman#72 (14 January 2010)

nomore4s said:


> No idea and don't really care:
> 
> Would just like to see Anthony Long get a game or two next year but I doubt he'll be ready. Hope he goes well for you blokes, was hoping Hawthorn would pick him up to play with his cousin - could make a great rebounding half back.
> 
> Nice kid too.




Hi Nomores

I'll be following his progress closely as well. If he is as good as Rioli he will be more than a handy pickup....let's hope he is!!

Duckman


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## bloomy88 (14 January 2010)

kennas said:


> I'll start with something:
> 
> B. Lovett Murray, Pears, Atkinson
> HB. Slattery, Ryder, Fletcher
> ...




Like your thoughts but Atkinson makes to many mistakes so I'd definately have Dempsey in the team as his run from half back was excellent early last season.

I think Prismall should be in the starting 18 before ricky dyson as well. Prismall has excellent disposal into the forward 50, which is somthing we require.

Plus, i dont think Skipworth will be playing since he retired haha

Overall though I think that will be pretty close to the Bombers' first 18

Hopefully we go further in the finals again this year

Cheers
Bloomy


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## Sean K (15 January 2010)

Happy to swap Dempsey for Atkinson somewhere in the back half.
Maybe Skipworth can be runner? lol
Dyson and Prismell is a toss up maybe. Might depend on form going in?

Is Williams a genuine FF Duckman? 
Ryder in the pocket changing with Hille I guess. Will we get the most out of him there?
Any other Ruck options to sit on the bench to give Hille a break for 5 minutes each quarter perhaps and keep Ryder in a key position?
Is Daniher being groomed as a forward or a back?


----------



## nomore4s (15 January 2010)

Bloody hell, if you blokes don't want Prismall - send him to Hawthorn


----------



## Duckman#72 (15 January 2010)

nomore4s said:


> Bloody hell, if you blokes don't want Prismall - send him to Hawthorn




Get your hands off him Nomores!!

I rate him highly Kennas - almost had him in my starting 18. Considering he was coming off injury last year, he showed us a lot. He dropped off at the end of the year (possibly the effects of the season). I think he will be more improved this year and be possibly one of our players first picked. 

No - I'm not sure about Williams as full forward. But he is the closest thing we have to one (at least starting off the season). Nomores might be able to tell us about his time at Hawthorn, but I thought he was a leading type full forward before Buddy and Roughead developed into KPP. We have to remember that Neagle won't be playing first up due to his recovery from groin surgery (at least that is what I've been told).

With Williams as the leading forward, that's why I threw Ryder deep in the pocket (and as resting ruck). With William, Davey and Monfires we have a small forward line. I thought Ryder would act as a target, to at least bring the ball to ground. Williams and Ryder won't be competing - Williams is a leading forward, not a stand and wrestle player. Maybe you put Hurley up there. As for Daniher - I've seen him play both parts of the ground and thought he looked a more natural backman, however he's only young and a forward spot might suit him. 

No I don't have any other ruck - if we threw Hooker into the 22 then he could backup as well as play a role in defence.

As you can see Kennas - my team reflects my thoughts about the weakness in our Forward Line. I think it might take some moving and shaking to get it to gel. For the first game in 2010, take out Lucas, Lloyd, McPhee and Neagle from last years side and you are losing a lot of game time. It will be trial and error and there will be some successes and failures - but it won't be boring. 

Duckman


----------



## Pivotonian (15 January 2010)

nomore4s said:


> Bloody hell, if you blokes don't want Prismall - send him to Hawthorn




Very, very good player.


----------



## nomore4s (15 January 2010)

Pivotonian said:


> Very, very good player.




lol, not according to the Essendon mob here, lucky to make the team by the looks of it?????:

Duckman,

Williams is probably past his best but could still be handy for your mob considering the lack of depth in the forward line Essendon currently have.

Only problem could be, none of your blokes will be able to hit him when he leads, lol:


----------



## YELNATS (15 January 2010)

Prismall would be in Geelong's starting lineup today if he hadn't been injured in the 2008 finals.

Very inteliigent player with excellent disposal skills.

Was sorry to see him leave the Cats.


----------



## Duckman#72 (15 January 2010)

nomore4s said:


> Williams is probably past his best but could still be handy for your mob considering the lack of depth in the forward line Essendon currently have.
> 
> Only problem could be, none of your blokes will be able to hit him when he leads, lol:




I disagree slightly. I think he is still capable of being the player he once was - he's not old. I just think that Hawthorn outgrew him. You shouldn't compare a lack of form for Williams with a change in Hawthorns game plan and how they used him.

As for no one hitting him.....what about Prismall? According to you, Yelnats and Pivotianian I should be putting some $$$$ on him for the Brownlow!!! 

When you look at my side, who would you replace him for - Watson, Stanton or McVeigh?

Duckman


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## nomore4s (15 January 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> I disagree slightly. I think he is still capable of being the player he once was - he's not old. I just think that Hawthorn outgrew him. You shouldn't compare a lack of form for Williams with a change in Hawthorns game plan and how they used him.
> 
> As for no one hitting him.....what about Prismall? According to you, Yelnats and Pivotianian I should be putting some $$$$ on him for the Brownlow!!!




Williams is lazy at times looks disinterested, new club might do him good. Still capable of kicking 40-60 goals a year - if your midfield can deliver it to him :.

Prismall might hit him but according to all you guys he won't be on the field to do it, lol :



> When you look at my side, who would you replace him for - Watson, Stanton or McVeigh?




Dyson


----------



## Duckman#72 (15 January 2010)

nomore4s said:


> Dyson




So you would play him on the wing? That's another possibility that Knights hasn't tried yet. 

For mine, Prismall beats Dyson hands down as an on-baller, but the speed, run and carry of Dyson is superior to Prismall as a loose wingman. 

I agree that Dyson is one of the weak links. If you don't play him on the wing - don't play him. 

Duckman

PS As far as Williams looking disinterested.....if I was a naturally leading forward playing in a forward line next to Roughead and Buddy I'd probably look a little disinterested as well!!! Given the Hawks gameplan of looking for the tall timbers on every entry I can see why he wanted out.

Bad luck for Croad - he was a really solid player for you guys over the years - particularly his last few.


----------



## nomore4s (15 January 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> So you would play him on the wing? That's another possibility that Knights hasn't tried yet.
> 
> For mine, Prismall beats Dyson hands down as an on-baller, but the speed, run and carry of Dyson is superior to Prismall as a loose wingman.
> 
> ...




Wingman are essentially onballers nowadays anyway


----------



## Duckman#72 (15 January 2010)

nomore4s said:


> Wingman are essentially onballers nowadays anyway




True - but they are onballers with a special skill set. A good winger is still valuable on the switch of play, fast break opportunities and breaking through the lines. Speed and penetrating foot skills are all important. Stanton, Hocking and Watson are onballers - but I wouldn't put them on the wing.  

Now I've said all that - watch for Prismall to start on the Wing in Round 1!!!!


----------



## bloomy88 (15 January 2010)

nomore4s said:


> Bloody hell, if you blokes don't want Prismall - send him to Hawthorn




Rate Prismall very highly and definately in Essondon's best 18. Classy and excellent disposal, which we often lack.

Knights has also said that Ryder won't be playing in the ruck as much this year and it will primarily be Hille and Laycock. Personally, I think Laycock is a dinosaur but hopefully he fires up....


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## nomore4s (15 January 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> True - but they are onballers with a special skill set. A good winger is still valuable on the switch of play, fast break opportunities and breaking through the lines. Speed and penetrating foot skills are all important. Stanton, Hocking and Watson are onballers - but I wouldn't put them on the wing.
> 
> Now I've said all that - watch for Prismall to start on the Wing in Round 1!!!!




Don't think it really matters as there is no doubt he will be part of the midfield rotation. They way they rotate players through the midfield now it is pretty meaningless where they are actually named.

Also rate Houli & Zaharakis and would think they would get a fair bit of game time this year.

Laycock, Neagle & Jetta are yet to convince me they came make an impact at this level, so will be interesting to see how they go this year.

Laycock in particular has been given plenty of chances and probably really needs to step it up. Neagle also probably needs to at least start showing signs of improvement this year, but I think he'll get at least a couple more years regardless.


----------



## Lachlan6 (15 January 2010)

Bring on 2010!


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## Duckman#72 (15 January 2010)

Lachlan6 said:


> Bring on 2010!




Nice side Lachlan. Just like my side, there are some big question marks - Neagle at Full Forward, Gumbleton at CHF, Ryder at CHB. Also need to question whether Zaharakis is yet a week in week out proposition.

What has happened to Houli. He was terrible defensively, but he seems somewhat out of favour by selectors. Do you think he is ahead of Zaharakis in the picking order at Windy Hill?

Duckman


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## Lachlan6 (16 January 2010)

I agree completely with you're assesement regarding Neagle. He was definently the one big question mark I also had in the front of my mind. I think his biggest problem is laziness but no one can doubt his raw talent. He has the potential to completely turn matches. I left Houli out of the side a little reluctantly. I love his textbook raking left foot, however feel that his game may be slightly limited. I prefer Zaharakis due to his leg speed and the glimpses of brilliance he showed last year (ie ANZAC Day). 

Obviously a huge question mark hangs over the head of Gumby and it may be a liitle presumptuous of me placing him at CHF, but #2 pick and he has shown he can play. Ryder would most likely not line up at CHB as he would be the logical back up ruckman for Hille (who I believe was the best ruckman in 2008, would take him before Sandilands any day).


----------



## GumbyLearner (16 January 2010)

Most of my family are Dons supporters.
I hope Essendon don't win the flag this year.

Go the Saints!


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## Sean K (16 January 2010)

Lachlan6 said:


> Bring on 2010!



Stanton on the bench?  Seems people love him or hate him.

On Laycock, didn't Sheedy call him the new Paul Salmon at one point?

I wouldn't be too surprised if Ryder is tried in a few positions, including CHF.


----------



## GumbyLearner (16 January 2010)

kennas said:


> Stanton on the bench?  Seems people love him or hate him.
> 
> On Laycock, didn't Sheedy call him the new Paul Salmon at one point?
> 
> I wouldn't be too surprised if Ryder is tried in a few positions, including CHF.




At least they are nor Collingwood or Carlton, what do you think Kennas?

Stanton on the beach???  Isn't he a Queensland property developer?


----------



## Lachlan6 (16 January 2010)

kennas said:


> Stanton on the bench?  Seems people love him or hate him.
> 
> On Laycock, didn't Sheedy call him the new Paul Salmon at one point?
> 
> I wouldn't be too surprised if Ryder is tried in a few positions, including CHF.




I am certainly in the former camp. I knew this decision would cause some controversy. Two things. Remember the modern game has so many interchanges throughout the match, that the old demotion to the bench and gathering splinters on the behind is now firmly in the past. He would probably come on very soon after the commencement of the game anyway. Also, it would depend on who we were playing and Welsh would probably go to a tagging role if we were up against Carlton.

Laycock is a long way from making this team in my opinion. He is not the player who can help to win premierships and I would be placing Bellchambers before him and looking to develop Michael Still also before him. He has had his time (he is lazy and doesn't do the 1%'s in a game ie chase).

Ryder is certainly versatile and I initailly doubted him in the backline but he certainly has proven he can play in that role. He is very exciting for our future.

Cheers


----------



## Duckman#72 (16 January 2010)

Lachlan6 said:


> I am certainly in the former camp. I knew this decision would cause some controversy. Two things. Remember the modern game has so many interchanges throughout the match, that the old demotion to the bench and gathering splinters on the behind is now firmly in the past. He would probably come on very soon after the commencement of the game anyway. Also, it would depend on who we were playing and Welsh would probably go to a tagging role if we were up against Carlton.
> 
> Laycock is a long way from making this team in my opinion. He is not the player who can help to win premierships and I would be placing Bellchambers before him and looking to develop Michael Still also before him. He has had his time (he is lazy and doesn't do the 1%'s in a game ie chase).




That was one of my reasons behind Prismall on the bench in my team. In todays modern game he'd probably be on within 90sec anyway! Although the stigma of being named "on the bench" still exists - it is disappearing. Geelong often start Selwood on the bench, but on paper he'd be in the best 18 in any AFL side. 

Laycock has got a lot of work to do to get back into my good books. Promises so much and under delivers - to be fair he is playing a position that you generally take a while to mature into ....but still.

Duckman


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## Putty7 (11 February 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> That was one of my reasons behind Prismall on the bench in my team. In todays modern game he'd probably be on within 90sec anyway! Although the stigma of being named "on the bench" still exists - it is disappearing. Geelong often start Selwood on the bench, but on paper he'd be in the best 18 in any AFL side.
> 
> Laycock has got a lot of work to do to get back into my good books. Promises so much and under delivers - to be fair he is playing a position that you generally take a while to mature into ....but still.
> 
> Duckman




Well it's nearly that time again, generally the bombers don't travel well to Perth but it will be great to see a few of the new recruits have a go and get an idea of what they are about to step up into, by the looks Hille and Ryder will change in the forward line later when Hille returns so another quality option up forward in either of them won't hurt us. Go Bombers !!!!!!!!!


----------



## Duckman#72 (11 February 2010)

Putty7 said:


> Well it's nearly that time again, generally the bombers don't travel well to Perth but it will be great to see a few of the new recruits have a go and get an idea of what they are about to step up into, by the looks Hille and Ryder will change in the forward line later when Hille returns so another quality option up forward in either of them won't hurt us. Go Bombers !!!!!!!!!




Hi Putty

You going to the game? Will be great to get a look at the "new" side playing together. I've got no idea on the result. Pre-season - anything goes, particularly away. I just hope the forwards fire..... any forward really. 

Duckman


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## GumbyLearner (11 February 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> Hi Putty
> 
> You going to the game? Will be great to get a look at the "new" side playing together. I've got no idea on the result. Pre-season - anything goes, particularly away. I just hope the forwards fire..... any forward really.
> 
> Duckman




The Dons have a good and young hard-running list. They'll make the 8 no probs. IMO


----------



## Putty7 (12 February 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> Hi Putty
> 
> You going to the game? Will be great to get a look at the "new" side playing together. I've got no idea on the result. Pre-season - anything goes, particularly away. I just hope the forwards fire..... any forward really.
> 
> Duckman




No unfortunately, bought a Honda xr400r Monday so I'm all out of presents for myself this week lol, the recruiting of young midfielders and having two good ruckmen should help to increase supply into the forward line this year, hopefully disposal will improve as well, pity about Hurley but would rather see him ready to go for the actual season and blood a few of the new young'uns while the chance is there, I think the Eagles might trounce us but you never know, they have a fully fit list and it is only the warm ups.


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## Sean K (12 February 2010)

Ryder out because he has a baby due. :-( AFL players shouldn't be allowed to ave babies.

Who's this Bock character? Can he play?


----------



## gav (13 February 2010)

See the Bombers get PUMPED, PUMPED! :

West Coast were lucky they were up against such poor opposition, far too many errors for my liking.  

One very good reason to smile though, Naitanui is gonna be a super star


----------



## Duckman#72 (13 February 2010)

On a positive note - no serious injuries  and plenty of new faces that were just there for the hitout.

Bock, Collyer, Hardingham all look like they need a season in the magoos.

Some good signs - Watson was fantastic, and Williams looks like he's going to settle in nicely. He is going to be a goto player for us - unlike at the Hawks. Still plenty of good footy in him.

Duckman


----------



## nomore4s (13 February 2010)

gav said:


> See the Bombers get PUMPED, PUMPED! :
> 
> West Coast were lucky they were up against such poor opposition, far too many errors for my liking.
> 
> One very good reason to smile though, Naitanui is gonna be a super star




West Coast could be a surprise packet this year. With Kennedy looking good, they could have a dangerous forward line, the midfield looks ok too with Priddis, Daziell, Kerr, Masten, Embley, Cox & Naitanui.

Why Melb picked Watts over Naitanui is beyond me.



Duckman#72 said:


> On a positive note - no serious injuries  and plenty of new faces that were just there for the hitout.
> 
> Bock, Collyer, Hardingham all look like they need a season in the magoos.
> 
> ...




Plenty of questions to be asked about the bombers imo.

I'm not sure how they are going to kick enough goals to be competitive tbh, Williams & Monfries will kick a few each week but then after that.....? They've lost 3 out of the top 4 goal kickers from last year, 5 out of the top 11. The other problem is while the midfield is competitive with most other teams they don't kick a lot of goals.

I also think Essendon are going to miss Lovett & McPhee more then they realise. Lovett added a lot of pace and skill to the midfield and he also kicked goals while McPhee was a great stop gap who could also kick goals.


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## gav (14 February 2010)

nomore4s said:


> West Coast could be a surprise packet this year. With Kennedy looking good, they could have a dangerous forward line, the midfield looks ok too with Priddis, Daziell, Kerr, Masten, Embley, Cox & Naitanui.
> 
> Why Melb picked Watts over Naitanui is beyond me.




Well I hope you are right Nomore4s.  One very important name you left off the list there - LeCras (best small fwd in the league last year).


----------



## Duckman#72 (14 February 2010)

nomore4s said:


> Plenty of questions to be asked about the bombers imo.




Hi Nomores

You got that right!! 

One main question for mine - who the hell is going to kick all the goals. As you would see by reviewing this thread, our forward line on paper is likely to be one of the most inexperienced/weakest in the league. 

Our forwards are going to put pressure on the midfield and backline again this year.

As for Lovett and McPhee - yes will will miss them but short term only. McPhee never reached the highs of his All-Aussie year (some time ago now). But yes - he was certainly a serviceable player (but he was often the player we would turn to as a stop gap - however in the last 2 years he was being less and less successful in that role).

Good luck for your guys Nomores - good win over pathetic opposition. Hardwick would be tearing his hair out.

Duckman


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## Sean K (14 February 2010)

McPhee was over it I think. Shame for us, but with a new lease of life might be an excellent asset to another team.

Lovett....Lovett, Lovett...Could be anything, more likely a burden by the looks.

Goals? Yes, a problem. Williams 2-3 a game maybe? 40-60 for the year. Need one other to step up for 30-40 maybe, but who? Hmmm. Hille and Ryder changing out of a pocket perhaps? Ryder at CHF?


----------



## Sean K (10 March 2010)

OK, Need a starting line up here, and some ideas for the ASF Super Coach Team for me. 

Some initial ideas were:

*kennas:*

B. Lovett Murray, Pears, Atkinson 
HB. Slattery, Ryder, Fletcher
C. Winderlich, Dyson, McVeigh 
HF. Davey, Hurley, Monfries
F. Welsh, Neagle, Williams
Fol. Hille, Watson, Stanton

Bench. Dempsey, Zaharakis, Hocking, Hooker, Prismell, Lonergan, Laycock, Jetta, Daniher 

*Duckman:*

FB:      Welsh, Pears, Daniher
HB:      Dempsey, Hurley, Fletcher 
C:        Reimers, Stanton, Dyson
HF:      Monfries, Gumbleton, Winderlich
FF:      Davey, Williams, Ryder
Followers: Hille, Watson, McVeigh

Interchange: Lovett-Murray, Atkinson, Prismall, Lonergan
Emergencies: Hocking, Hooker, Neagle, Slattery, Houli

Ones to watch: I'd like to see Melsham get some game time this year. He looks promising.

*Lauchlan*:

B. Hooker Pears Fletcher
HB. Prismall Ryder Lovett Murray
C. Zacharias Watson Winderlich
HF. Williams Gumbledon Hurley
F. Davey Neagle McVeigh
R. Hille Longergan Welsh
IC. Stanton Monphries Meksham Dempsey


Quite a few took offence at Prismell on the bench, maybe he needs to be slotted in.

A few are out for the start of the season through injury and suspension.

So, any further thoughts on a best line up?


----------



## chops_a_must (10 March 2010)

kennas said:


> McPhee was over it I think. Shame for us, but with a new lease of life might be an excellent asset to another team.




Any chance you could take him back for us?

Cheers,

Chops.


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## nomore4s (10 March 2010)

chops_a_must said:


> Any chance you could take him back for us?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Chops.




But if you guys didn't take players like McPhee on you wouldn't be Freo:


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## Duckman#72 (10 March 2010)

nomore4s said:


> But if you guys didn't take players like McPhee on you wouldn't be Freo:




Exactly!!!!  Other clubs might make a stuff up or two but it takes Freo to pull off these amazing daft drafts.

Kennas - you might like to look at Hooker for your Super Coach team. I know, I know.......I've never been a fan, but the write-ups from his efforts in the pre-season and intra-club hit-outs have been glowing. Apparently he has "beefed up" a bit and is looking less like Kepler Bradley every week!! I don't really know about the Super Coach format, but you might pick Hooker up for not much $$$$. He's been getting some good possession numbers. 

Speaking of Kepler Bradley - where did he get to........??? Chops? Chops? 

Duckman


----------



## Sean K (10 March 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> Kennas - you might like to look at Hooker for your Super Coach team.
> 
> Duckman



I've looked at a Hooker, and this one looks well priced, but I might rather spend a few more dollars for something with more experience. Will look again.

edit, actually at $331,000 he's not cheap at all, but might pencil him in.


----------



## chops_a_must (10 March 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> Exactly!!!!  Other clubs might make a stuff up or two but it takes Freo to pull off these amazing daft drafts.




Yeah, it's our previous dumb trading not our drafting that has ****ed us.



Duckman#72 said:


> Apparently he has "beefed up" a bit and is looking less like Kepler Bradley every week!! I don't really know about the Super Coach format, but you might pick Hooker up for not much $$$$. He's been getting some good possession numbers.
> 
> Speaking of Kepler Bradley - where did he get to........??? Chops? Chops?
> 
> Duckman




Same place as Robbie Warnock, West Perth. But unlike Robbie, he plays the occassional good game there. LOL.


----------



## Duckman#72 (26 March 2010)

Carn the Bombers!!!!!

It'll be tough, but that's what is wonderful about a new season! It's a blank canvas. Essendon has my Oztip.

We are overdue to beat the Cats!! When it does happen it's always a "surprise" so hopefully it can be tonight. 

Duckman


----------



## nomore4s (26 March 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> Carn the Bombers!!!!!




How much do you reckon they will lose by?

:


----------



## sammy84 (26 March 2010)

Geelong are under done. Essendon are every chance.

As an aside for those who like a punt. David Hille is paying $34 for first goal. He will start full forward, there is no way Essendon will be starting a fitter Ryder in the forward line and let Hille ruck straight out from a knee injury.


----------



## nomore4s (26 March 2010)

Some ok signs for the bombers but some worrying signs as well.

The fact they faded so badly and quite a few players went missing in the last quarter is a worry, especially cause the game was there to be won.
Only 3 Essendon players ended up with 20 or more possessions compared to 11 for Geelong, which is surprising considering how good the bombers looked for the first 3 quarters.

It also looks like the bombers played Geelong into form for next weeks game against the Hawks:, so not real pleased with that but we'll see how the Hawks go tomorrow first.


----------



## Duckman#72 (27 March 2010)

nomore4s said:


> Some ok signs for the bombers but some worrying signs as well.
> 
> The fact they faded so badly and quite a few players went missing in the last quarter is a worry, especially cause the game was there to be won.
> Only 3 Essendon players ended up with 20 or more possessions compared to 11 for Geelong, which is surprising considering how good the bombers looked for the first 3 quarters.




Well...what can I say?

Yes there were some positive signs. Let's face it, we weren't over $4.00 the win for nothing. The midfield will be better for the run. Zaharakis, Reimers, Howlett (in his first) and Prismall played well. Stanton and Watson were serviceable. Dempsey, Hooker, and Pears were good in the main. Byt players like Davey, Winderlich and Dyson need to lift. They were disappointing.

I also liked our level of intensity (for the main) and the fact that our players weren't outbodied like in previous years.

However our final capitulation was pathetic. Signs of mental and physical fragility.

But our biggest concern is ....surprise, surprise our forward line.

THE TURNING POINT of the match. The 14th minute mark of the third quarter. Neagle takes a mark (one of his only for the night), decides to play on, gets caught, free kick, Geelong rebound and goal. Now if Neagle goes back and kicks the goal the scoreline reads Essendon 85 Geelong 56 - instead of Geelong 62 Essendon 79. The play (non-play) just knocks the stuffing out of the Bombers and they don't goal again until well into the final quarter.

Considering that there is a fair chance that "Mr Shuffles" the baby elephant could outrun Neagle, what the ****ing hell was he thinking? At the moment we have got one of the greatest "decoy" FF/CHF power forward double acts in history. Hopefully it is just confidence and nerves, but the hands of both Neagle and Gumbleton were deplorable. Both dropped uncontested chest marks delivered laces out. 

I'm looking forward to a more relaxed and dominant display against Freo next week. If we have to watch Gumby and Mr Shuffles play like this all year it is going to make for a long season. 

Duckman


----------



## jancha (27 March 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> Well...what can I say?
> 
> Yes there were some positive signs. Let's face it, we weren't over $4.00 the win for nothing. The midfield will be better for the run. Zaharakis, Reimers, Howlett (in his first) and Prismall played well. Stanton and Watson were serviceable. Dempsey, Hooker, and Pears were good in the main. Byt players like Davey, Winderlich and Dyson need to lift. They were disappointing.
> 
> ...




I thought it was an excellent game.
A Lot better viewing than the thursday night game.
I dont think the final score showed a true indication of the game.
If it's just a matter of fitness we could see some good things to come with the bombers.
Oh by the way GO THE CROWS!!!


----------



## WaveSurfer (27 March 2010)

jancha said:


> I thought it was an excellent game.
> A Lot better viewing than the thursday night game.
> I dont think the final score showed a true indication of the game.
> If it's just a matter of fitness we could see some good things to come with the bombers.
> Oh by the way GO THE CROWS!!!




Agreed jancha. I think Ling said it best after the game, these youngsters will be a great side as the year progresses.

Hard luck boys. You really had them on the ropes there for a while. I'm not sure it was Geelong running away with it in the last Q. The bombers simply faded and the more experienced legs prevailed.

Still, very promising signs. I like their style of play. Bit like Geelong in their younger days. Fast, direct and unstoppable when they're on fire. They really opened up the holes in the Cats defence and forward line. Shame they couldn't finish it off. They deserved it.

That's football though. It ain't over till the fat lady sings.


----------



## nomore4s (27 March 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> But our biggest concern is ....surprise, surprise our forward line.
> 
> THE TURNING POINT of the match. The 14th minute mark of the third quarter. Neagle takes a mark (one of his only for the night), decides to play on, gets caught, free kick, Geelong rebound and goal. Now if Neagle goes back and kicks the goal the scoreline reads Essendon 85 Geelong 56 - instead of Geelong 62 Essendon 79. The play (non-play) just knocks the stuffing out of the Bombers and they don't goal again until well into the final quarter.
> 
> ...




hahaha I was going to bag Neagle & Gumbleton out but thought I'd save it for later in the year. I really don't know how Neagle keeps getting regular games, just looking at him and you can tell he isn't fit. Add to the fact Mr Shuffles & Gumby really struggle to get near the ball on any sort of regular basis they really do need to make every chance count.

See that mark Neagle dropped in the last quarter? Looked very ordinary.


----------



## nomore4s (27 March 2010)

WaveSurfer said:


> Hard luck boys. You really had them on the ropes there for a while. I'm not sure it was Geelong running away with it in the last Q. The bombers simply faded and the more experienced legs prevailed.




IMO, Geelong lifted quite a bit in the last quarter. All their stars stood up in that last quarter and Essendon couldn't match it.

Geelong were very average during most of the first 3 quarters compared to the standard they have set over the last few years. Some of the skill errors and turnovers Geelong made were very uncharacteristic and when they cut them out in the last quarter the game changed.


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## newbie trader (27 March 2010)

Good to see this thread, I think all the Essendon supporters will need the emotional support cry to deal with all the losses theyll suffer this year, especially at the hands of the LIONS! 

N.T


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## WaveSurfer (27 March 2010)

nomore4s said:


> IMO, Geelong lifted quite a bit in the last quarter. All their stars stood up in that last quarter and Essendon couldn't match it.
> 
> Geelong were very average during most of the first 3 quarters compared to the standard they have set over the last few years. Some of the skill errors and turnovers Geelong made were very uncharacteristic and when they cut them out in the last quarter the game changed.




First few rounds always blow the cobwebs out of the system. I agree that the ball handling was questionable at times. But it was evident in both sides, the good old first round jitters.

I hear what you're saying. Cats stars however may have only been able to run away with it because of the drop in the Bombers intensity and the younger legs getting a bit tired (no stamina). That we'll never really know for sure. It's all speculation.

That said, Geelong will be a force to be reckoned with yet again. They're getting on, but they don't appear to be done with yet.

Al makes for good ball, that's what it's all about.

[[[Edit]]] I'm a Geelong supporter BTW


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## Lachlan6 (27 March 2010)

Although the difference was 31 points, there were some encouraging signs. I thought our work out of the centre during the first three quarters was excellent and we led in clearances by three qtr time. Gumbleton was very disappointing. He really did'nt even offer much of a contest and looks out of sort at this level. For the time being, I still want to give him more of a chance though. 

The only reason Naygle is in the side is because of Hurley's absence. As soon as he returns, it will be back to Bendigo for Jay. Although I love our playing style, I feel it is a little one dimensional. We need to discover a solid defensive style to curtail momentum surges such as what Geelong had last night. All in all, good signs but we still need some work.


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## jancha (27 March 2010)

nomore4s said:


> IMO, Geelong lifted quite a bit in the last quarter. All their stars stood up in that last quarter and Essendon couldn't match it.
> 
> Geelong were very average during most of the first 3 quarters compared to the standard they have set over the last few years. Some of the skill errors and turnovers Geelong made were very uncharacteristic and when they cut them out in the last quarter the game changed.




Depends on how you look at it.
You say Geelongs standard wasn't there for the first 3/4 or could it be simply the pressure applied by Essendon that created the mistakes.
Essendon couldn't sustain that pressure in the last quarter which in turn gave Geelong enough rope to get that flow happening. My


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## nomore4s (27 March 2010)

jancha said:


> Depends on how you look at it.
> You say Geelongs standard wasn't there for the first 3/4 or could it be simply the pressure applied by Essendon that created the mistakes.
> Essendon couldn't sustain that pressure in the last quarter which in turn gave Geelong enough rope to get that flow happening. My




While the Essendon's pressure was good, most of those mistakes were basic skill errors. Geelongs strength has been the ability to move the ball through the centre at speed under pressure, that was missing for most of the first 3 quarters. Geelong looked very rusty at times last night.


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## jancha (27 March 2010)

nomore4s said:


> While the Essendon's pressure was good, most of those mistakes were basic skill errors. Geelongs strength has been the ability to move the ball through the centre at speed under pressure, that was missing for most of the first 3 quarters. Geelong looked very rusty at times last night.



Basic skill errors?
Remember the year Geelong were at their peak & lost to the Hawks in the grand final?
Would you say that Geelong on paper were the more polished side & yet on the day the Hawks beat them.
Games are won on skill but when the right amount of pressure is put on mistakes happen just like the Hawks did in winning the grand final.
It sounds as if your not giving much credit to Essendons performance last night rather that Geelong wasn't up to scratch and making excuses for them. 
Both sides will improve on that game.
 However i think that Essendon has a lot more to work with to improve on being the more younger inexperienced side.
I hope the next clash is 4 quarters of pressured football.


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## Duckman#72 (27 March 2010)

jancha said:


> Basic skill errors?
> 
> Games are won on skill but when the right amount of pressure is put on mistakes happen just like the Hawks did in winning the grand final.
> It sounds as if your not giving much credit to Essendons performance last night rather that Geelong wasn't up to scratch and making excuses for them.
> ...




I agree. Essendon deserve some credit. You can't have a dead even tackle count, with the losing side winning more contested ball and then say that  pressure wasn't applied. 

As Nomores said.."At times Geelong looked very rusty last night". Yes they did. BUT.....you can hardly say that Essendon were firing on all cylinders either! It was a scrappy skills display at times from both sides. Don't forget it was Geelongs accuracy and polish in the first half, compared to Essendon's untidy finishing that kept the match so close. Davey runs straight towards goal 35m out and misses a 70% chance, ball rebounds and goes to Stevie J who puts through a goal that was probably a 20% chance. That is what good sides do. 

If Essendon takes their chances and Geelong don't, then the result could be quite different. Essendon are still a very young side that feeds on confidence. That's why I think the Mr Shuffles incident was so crucial. For a young side to go 5 goals up midway through the third would have given them such a boost. Instead they are looking at last years premiers closing the gap to 3 goals only 25 seconds later.  

For the record Geelong remind me a lot of the Bombers of 2001. They win a lot of games on reputation. Other teams "hear them coming" and expect to be run down....BUT sooner or later the reputation is broken open.    

Duckman


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## GumbyLearner (27 March 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> I agree. Essendon deserve some credit. You can't have a dead even tackle count, with the losing side winning more contested ball and then say that  pressure wasn't applied.
> 
> As Nomores said.."At times Geelong looked very rusty last night". Yes they did. BUT.....you can hardly say that Essendon were firing on all cylinders either! It was a scrappy skills display at times from both sides. Don't forget it was Geelongs accuracy and polish in the first half, compared to Essendon's untidy finishing that kept the match so close. Davey runs straight towards goal 35m out and misses a 70% chance, ball rebounds and goes to Stevie J who puts through a goal that was probably a 20% chance. That is what good sides do.
> 
> ...




I watched the great game last night. The Dons dominated contested possessions in the 2nd and 3rd quarters. But then midway through the 3rd players like Bartel started to put their bodies on the line while trying to negate the influence of Stanton who played a ripper of a game. During the 3rd Bartel layed some heavy shepherds and Yablett rummaged through the packs to get the contested ball deep in the Cats defence. Selwood was quiet in the 3rd but came back hard in the final qtr. The Cats have a hard hitting blue-chip midfield imo that score goals frequently.  That was ultimately the difference. But did note the intensity of Jobe Watson in the first half.  
Encouraging signs for the Dons this year no doubt. JMO


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## Putty7 (27 March 2010)

And we are away at last Duckman, all in all I thought they did pretty bloody well considering the last 2 Geelong games they were hammered big time in every department and every quarter, Hille might get a rest unfortunately but good to see the big fella being aggresive, hate to say it but Neagle looked woefull, slow and sloppy, can't wait until Hurley is back should give us a bit of enthusiasm up front, at the end of the day they stood up and matched Geelong for 3 quarters which is a big improvement on last year and Geelong are still are top four side. This year should see us in the top eight with points to spare and hopefully a second final.


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## nomore4s (27 March 2010)

jancha said:


> Basic skill errors?




Yes basic skill errors. Missing handball targets from a few metres away while not under any physical pressure is a basic skill error, especially for Geelong.



Duckman#72 said:


> I agree. Essendon deserve some credit. You can't have a dead even tackle count, with the losing side winning more contested ball and then say that  pressure wasn't applied.




When did I say pressure wasn't applied?

Did I not also say Essendon showed some good signs? All I'm saying is Geelong were nowhere near their best for the first 3 quarters and once they started to play the type of football we are used to seeing them play the game changed dramatically.


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## jancha (27 March 2010)

nomore4s said:


> Yes basic skill errors. Missing handball targets from a few metres away while not under any physical pressure is a basic skill error, especially for Geelong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Or the pressure dropped off which changed the game dramatically allowing Geelong to play the type of football we're use to seeing.
If the pressure had continued in the last quarter it may have been a different story.
Off the topic but who was the more polished outfit in the Hawks Geelong grand final?
We all know who but they lost anyway and only for one reason. Pressure football the same as last night game.
Like i said be interesting to see how they shape up to each other next time.
Someone backed Geelong 150k to take out the flag?
I'd be a bit concerned on that game.


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## GumbyLearner (27 March 2010)

jancha said:


> *1.* Or the pressure dropped off which changed the game dramatically allowing Geelong to play the type of football we're use to seeing.
> If the pressure had continued in the last quarter it may have been a different story.
> *2.* Someone backed Geelong 150k to take out the flag?
> I'd be a bit concerned on that game.




In answer 
1. Fitness? I thought Winderlich went missing after half time
2. I agree. The Dons did play well and Geelong were lifted by Cameron Ling's game-breaker goal in the 3rd qtr.


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## newbie trader (27 March 2010)

GREAT LAST QUART (thus far) BY THE LIONS V WCE!

We are the pride of Brisbane town,
We wear maroon, blue and gold.
We will always fight for victory,
Like Fitzroy, and Bears of old.
All for one, and one for all,
We will answer to the call.
Go Lions, Brisbane Lions,
We'll kick the winning score.
You'll hear our mighty roar.

N.T


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## GumbyLearner (27 March 2010)

newbie trader said:


> GREAT LAST QUART (thus far) BY THE LIONS V WCE!
> 
> We are the pride of Brisbane town,
> We wear maroon, blue and gold.
> ...




Add this to your cheer and turn your jumper away from it's roots!


We love the cost of the living salary caps, because they don't apply to us!
Mmm..the remnants of Skase!

Noboby can help you if you claim a victory over the west coast snorters as a true contest!


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## newbie trader (27 March 2010)

GumbyLearner said:


> Add this to your cheer and turn your jumper away from it's roots!
> 
> 
> We love the cost of the living salary caps, because they don't apply to us!
> ...




It's ok to be jealous, a natural human emotion.



N.T


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## AussiePaul72 (28 March 2010)

newbie trader said:


> GREAT LAST QUART (thus far) BY THE LIONS V WCE!
> 
> We are the pride of Brisbane town,
> We wear maroon, blue and gold.
> ...




Totally agree Newbie!!
It took them 3 quarters before they started to gel together ..... and some inaccurate kicking made it hard going early on aswell. Very pleased though with legs they had at the end. Some of the new guys also really showed a lot of promise ....
GO THE MIGHTY LIONS!!!


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## nomore4s (28 March 2010)

jancha said:


> Or the pressure dropped off which changed the game dramatically allowing Geelong to play the type of football we're use to seeing.
> If the pressure had continued in the last quarter it may have been a different story.
> Off the topic but who was the more polished outfit in the Hawks Geelong grand final?
> We all know who but they lost anyway and only for one reason. Pressure football the same as last night game.
> ...




lol, Or maybe because Geelong's stars stepped up to the plate in the last quarter and a half Essendon were unable to maintain the pressure. You can keep justifying the pathetic fade out by Essendon anyway you want but the fact is when Geelong lifted Essendon couldn't match it with them.

How you can compare a Grand Final to a 1st round match is beyond me, there is all ways pressure in a GF. Geelong were the better side all year of that there is no doubt, but as far as the GF goes, they probably outplayed the Hawks in the first half but failed to put it on the scoreboard but in the 2nd half Geelong were clearly outplayed, I suggest you check a replay if you don't believe me. Hawthorn's desperation and second efforts were outstanding that day, and we didn't go missing in the last quarter:


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## ThingyMajiggy (28 March 2010)

The umpiring in the Saints v Sydney game last night was the biggest load of *BS* I have EVER seen.


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## newbie trader (28 March 2010)

AussiePaul72 said:


> Totally agree Newbie!!
> It took them 3 quarters before they started to gel together ..... and some inaccurate kicking made it hard going early on aswell. Very pleased though with legs they had at the end. Some of the new guys also really showed a lot of promise ....
> GO THE MIGHTY LIONS!!!




The relationship between Brown and Fev looks promising and its just the first round. They seem to already have a good sense of where each other 'are'. Good example was when brown got the ball under pressure, didnt even have to look and kicked the ball down field right into the hands of Fev. BOO YA!

N.T


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## jancha (28 March 2010)

nomore4s said:


> lol, Or maybe because Geelong's stars stepped up to the plate in the last quarter and a half Essendon were unable to maintain the pressure. You can keep justifying the pathetic fade out by Essendon anyway you want but the fact is when Geelong lifted Essendon couldn't match it with them.
> 
> How you can compare a Grand Final to a 1st round match is beyond me, there is all ways pressure in a GF. Geelong were the better side all year of that there is no doubt, but as far as the GF goes, they probably outplayed the Hawks in the first half but failed to put it on the scoreboard but in the 2nd half Geelong were clearly outplayed, I suggest you check a replay if you don't believe me. Hawthorn's desperation and second efforts were outstanding that day, and we didn't go missing in the last quarter:




Anyone with half a brain knows that enough pressure applied in a game of football will create errors. That's where Hawthorn beat Geelong in the GF.
Doesn't matter if it's a grand final or a round 1 game. The intensity was still there on both sides Friday night.
That's why the game was enjoyable to watch imo
The way i interpret your summation of the game that Geelong got their act together in the final quarter leaving Essendon in their wake.
Not so much as Essendon ran out of legs and couldn't maintain the pressure which is more my line of thinking.
I think you should be giving more credit to Essendon as a real contender & not making excuses for Geelongs first 3/4.
Anyway we'll see as the season progresses.


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## mexican (28 March 2010)

jancha said:


> Or the pressure dropped off which changed the game dramatically allowing Geelong to play the type of football we're use to seeing.
> If the pressure had continued in the last quarter it may have been a different story.
> Off the topic but who was the more polished outfit in the Hawks Geelong grand final?
> We all know who but they lost anyway and only for one reason. Pressure football the same as last night game.
> ...




I would be more concerned if they lost to the Bombers.
The Bombers look alright, but still a few years away yet. 
Business starts after round 6 not round 1. As always the young teams fade away.
When Geelong turn it on they are great to watch. Even if it is for one quarter.


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## brty (28 March 2010)

I was at the game on Friday and it was a good spectacle until the last 10-15 minutes when the pressure was off.

Geelong looked sluggish from the opening, a GF hangover type of performance. They looked clearly underdone compared to the faster Bombers.

The turning point of the game was when Joel Selwood took a clear mark, was hit from behind, and the umpire called play-on, Bombers were 3 goals up, took the ball away and kicked another. This incident woke up the Cats, their intensity lifted and the game suddenly had meaning to them. The young Bombers started to be run down and the change in the game took a while to manifest itself on the scoreboard.
What Hille did to Bartels was pretty much the same thing that had happened to Selwood, only this time the umpire paid the mark and gave the 50.

brty


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## nomore4s (28 March 2010)

ThingyMajiggy said:


> The umpiring in the Saints v Sydney game last night was the biggest load of *BS* I have EVER seen.




I agree, only need to look at Nick Riewoldt the wrong way and he gets a free kick.



brty said:


> Geelong looked sluggish from the opening, a GF hangover type of performance. They looked clearly underdone compared to the faster Bombers.




Exactly my point.



jancha said:


> I think you should be giving more credit to Essendon as a real contender & not making excuses for Geelongs first 3/4.




Maybe you should take your rose coloured glasses off.
If you think Essendon are a real contender this year with that list you really are living in a fantasy world.


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## Duckman#72 (29 March 2010)

nomore4s said:


> When did I say pressure wasn't applied?
> 
> Did I not also say Essendon showed some good signs? All I'm saying is Geelong were nowhere near their best for the first 3 quarters and once they started to play the type of football we are used to seeing them play the game changed dramatically.




You didn't Nomores. Sorry if I implied that. I meant "you" as in "a person". I was actually writing back to Putty I think.

It is the old chicken and the egg story. You are saying Geelong looked good in the final quarter because they played back to their best. More truthfully, I think Geelong looked good because Essendon mentally and physically dropped right off. 

Anyway all ancient history today.

I do agree with you on the overall shape of the Bombers team. We have a long, long way to go. I watched Freo play yesterday afternoon and we will be struggling to beat the Dockers on that effort (but they still are The Dockers!!!)

Hawks always worry Geelong, so will be a good match this weekend.

Duckman


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## nomore4s (29 March 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> I watched Freo play yesterday afternoon and we will be struggling to beat the Dockers on that effort (but they still are The Dockers!!!)




If Freo can play like that on a regular basis watchout, but as usual they need to prove they can do it outside of Perth. Should be a good test for both teams this weekend.



> Hawks always worry Geelong, so will be a good match this weekend.




Yeah we do normally match up well with them and it will be a test of exactly where we are at, we have looked good against the weak teams so far this year but struggled against the better teams so lets see what happens.


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## mexican (29 March 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> You didn't Nomores. Sorry if I implied that. I meant "you" as in "a person". I was actually writing back to Putty I think.
> 
> It is the old chicken and the egg story. You are saying Geelong looked good in the final quarter because they played back to their best. More truthfully, I think Geelong looked good because Essendon mentally and physically dropped right off.
> 
> ...




Come on Duckman! Geelong are more mentally and physically stronger than the Bombers, hence the final quarter result and the 50+pt turn around.
Give credit where credit is due.


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## Duckman#72 (29 March 2010)

mexican said:


> Come on Duckman! Geelong are more mentally and physically stronger than the Bombers, hence the final quarter result and the 50+pt turn around.
> Give credit where credit is due.




Hi Mexican

I agree. You just have to look at a tape of the game.

You don't have 9 goals straight kicked on you, if you are a strong side mentally and physically. We just couldn't go the four quarters - in fact we couldn't go past 3 and a half.

Credit to Geelong of course. They powered home and did what they had to do. Their physical strength, experience and even "match hardness and fitness" all counted in the end.

But your comments reflect my earlier statement about Geelong looking like the Bombers of 2001. Sometimes teams start believing a "little too much" in their abilities. When games are close, it's only because "we weren't playing well".  Games like last Friday's only help to mask this disease. Essendon's big turning point in 2001 was when they came from 69 points behind to beat Kangaroos. Everyone was aking the question - "Is this the greatest team ever?" The better question was -"Why did the team billed as the greatest team ever, get so far behind in a game?". History shows - other sides were catching up and we were starting our decline. The reputation of the Bombers helped win the game against North. The Kangas started jumping at shadows and they effectively lost it as much as Essendon won it.

Now I'm not saying that the game on Friday night was Essendon's to lose - but the same principle applies. The Cats need to reflect more on why they got behind, than how good the win was.

Duckman


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## Duckman#72 (5 April 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> Stanton and Watson were serviceable. Dempsey, Hooker, and Pears were good in the main. But players like Davey, Winderlich and Dyson need to lift. They were disappointing.
> 
> However our final capitulation was pathetic. Signs of mental and physical fragility.
> 
> But our biggest concern is ....surprise, surprise our forward line.




This is what I wrote with regard to last weeks game and I may as well post it for this week as well. The Bombers should be very disappointed in their performance yesterday. Knights and co must be concerned. 

What happened yesterday? Was it a misfire by one of the most exciting, inexperienced and up and coming sides? Or was it a true reflection of the Bombers current list? To be fair it was probably a touch of both, BUT with a heavier weighting to the latter.

New players like Howlett and Gumbleton showed some encouraging signs and had a good go. However experienced players like Winderlich and Dyson were very poor.

Based on that performance we need to make some changes next week. Slattery out, Lovett-Murray back in. Davey out, he continually drops the ball and is currently light years away from being an AFL footballer. After watching his brother play on Saturday, the difference is stark. Essendon want him to be another Aaron Davey, Rioli, Lovett, Leon Davis but he's just not the guy. Bring Reimers back in and tell the bugger to play defence or stay in the magoos.

Hille and Ryder need to lift around the ground. The were always going to do it tough against Sandilands but how can two mobile ruckman not make an impact in general play against a 7foot ruckman that didn't have a break!! 

As much as I have been complaining about our forward line, and in particular Mr Shuffles, Essendon has made its bed it has to lie in it. They've put all their eggs into Gumby and Neagle. They need to play them - even if they constantly frustrate supporters. If Neagle is fit (a subjective term), he needs to have game time. If they were going to drop him - play a true forward in his spot. At least try and have some structure. Williams - I'm not sure about. To be fair to Williams, as a leading forward, Essendon would be one of the worst teams to play on regarding quality ball delivery.   

I'm really enjoying Pears, Hooker and Dempsey develop. They were good. Gumbleton showed some really good signs and just didn't have any support in the forward line. Hocking also tried hard all day. 

Stanton was flat, Watson was flat, McVeigh out of sorts. Prismall tried. Was Welsh even out there? No impact from any of them. The bitter pill to swallow was how Freo's disposals were clean, and the decision making sharp. By contrast our disposal was very poor and decision making dreadful. And by our most experienced players as well (hand up Hille, Stanton, Fletcher and Prismall).

All in all - a very disappointing loss. For every step forward it seems we are making 3 backwards. 

Before I say too mcuh more I want to  see some more results this year - so I can see the "real Essendon"

Duckman


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## Putty7 (5 April 2010)

Disappointing is hardly the word I would use Duckman lol, bloody Dorkers supporters gave me a bit of stick yesterday arvo I can tell you, turned the phone off and went for a drive for an hour after the game to settle myself down lol. After the good signs shown against Geelong there wasn't much to go on with, I agree unless they bring Lloyd out of retirement Neagle needs to play or be gone, it's that simple, Gumbleton at least gave us something yesterday so praise the Lord and halleleuah for that. I think someone mentioned that the gameplay of the bombers was a bit one dimensional and it looked it yesterday, I don't think the players can take all the credit for the loss because they looked out of position at times and silly when the turnovers came, was it laziness on the players behalf or was the game plan exploited by Mark Harvey and co, credit where it is due the Dockers deserved the win, they looked the more convincing side after half time and the last quarter fade outs by the Bombers is handing games away on a silver platter at the moment, lets hope they get their sh*t together before Carlton this week.


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## Putty7 (5 April 2010)

On a lighter note the backline seems to be coming together nicely, they have gotten a lot of practise in the last half of the first 2 games while the rest of the team has a rest.


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## Knobby22 (5 April 2010)

I went to the game, very disappointing.
The Dons lacked spark and seemed to play a bit like robots.
Hadly any flair.

Gumbleton looked good.

Mr Shuffles was sitting near me. His girlfriend was tiny except for one set of features. Maybe he is not concentrating on the game.


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## Duckman#72 (6 April 2010)

Knobby22 said:


> The Dons lacked spark and seemed to play a bit like robots.
> Hadly any flair.
> 
> Mr Shuffles was sitting near me. His girlfriend was tiny except for one set of features. Maybe he is not concentrating on the game.




Sounds like Knights should have a word to Mrs Shuffles - with her permission it might be wise to put Jay on a incentive based "root for reward" system.    

Yes the Dons certainly lacked spark. Although I thought the intensity was there initially. After half time the endeavour, creativity and dare I say it ...... the apparent lack of fitness seemed to tell.Was it due to the big build up and mental expenditure at the "one the got away" against Geelong? I just hope that they get it together for Carlton.

Putty - I know how you feel. I spent Easter with Mrs Duckman's family who are mostly all Collingwood supporters. So they all had their tails up after jagging Saturday's game, and gave it to me on Sunday.

Here's hoping that they all fire against the Blues.

Duckman


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## nomore4s (6 April 2010)

Looked slow too, for a team that prides itself on it's pace they certainly have a few plodders as well. Don't understand why Reimers was dropped, missed his pace.

Looks like the outs from last year are having more of an effect then first thought too.


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## Duckman#72 (6 April 2010)

nomore4s said:


> Looked slow too, for a team that prides itself on it's pace they certainly have a few plodders as well. Don't understand why Reimers was dropped, missed his pace.
> 
> Looks like the outs from last year are having more of an effect then first thought too.




I very much agree about the pace Nomores - I just put the lack of speed down to lack of fitness or mental fatigue, but the lack of zing was clear. We do have some player with slow leg speed - Hocking, Watson, Prismall, Slattery as some.  

As far as the outs from last year - we are certainly missing Lovatt. No doubt.  His unpredictability, speed, creativity and ability to break open the lines were valuable to this side. Davey doesn't have the composure nor skills to fill the gap. Jetta is still an injured work in progress. Reimers neeeds to be played regularly I think, as he is the closest to playing the role.

As for Lucas and McPhee - I'm not yet convinced we would be a better side with them still there.  The game was passing Lucas by and his good games were few and far between. With McPhee we lost experience, but it was a long time since he was a player worthy of All-Australian discussion. 

Lloyd is different - he certainly provided us with a focal point if nothing else (when Knights played him there). Our forward line looked better with him playing in my opinion. Although football is a funny game - in 10 weeks time we might be saying that Lloyd leaving was the best thing to happen to Mr Shuffles, Gumby and the Essendon Football Club.

I see your Hawks were gallant in defeat. It was one of my Supercoach players that effectively tipped the match towards Geelong Nomores - Shoenmachers kick across goal with about 8mins to go was unfortunate. 

Duckman


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## nomore4s (6 April 2010)

That missed goal did cost us and so did Renoufs miss only about 30m out, but in a lot of ways we were lucky to still be in the game at that point


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## Duckman#72 (6 April 2010)

nomore4s said:


> That missed goal did cost us and so did Renoufs miss only about 30m out, but in a lot of ways we were lucky to still be in the game at that point




No I wasn't talking about Shoenmachers missed shot at goal - I was talking about his kick from Geelong's pocket across the face of goals that was marked by Byrne (I think). A goal resulted and the difference was back to 4 points. If he roosts it long down the boundary line to a contest, who knows why might have happened. But at least it wouldn't have resulted in a shot at goal 35m out on a slight angle.


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## Lachlan6 (6 April 2010)

nomore4s said:


> Looked slow too, for a team that prides itself on it's pace they certainly have a few plodders as well. Don't understand why Reimers was dropped, missed his pace.
> 
> Looks like the outs from last year are having more of an effect then first thought too.



What! I did not even realise that until now. That makes the whole debacle even more painful. I thought Reimers was one of our best last week agaist Geelong. 

The match itself was terrible and altough it's only two rounds in, the finals have turned from being a mole hill to a slightly large peak.


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## nomore4s (8 April 2010)

Hahaha Barlow trained at Essendon

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/91832/default.aspx

The one that got away. I know I wouldn't mind having him running around in a Hawks jumper.


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## Duckman#72 (8 April 2010)

nomore4s said:


> Hahaha Barlow trained at Essendon
> 
> http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/91832/default.aspx
> 
> The one that got away. I know I wouldn't mind having him running around in a Hawks jumper.




I was hoping that wouldn't be mentioned. Thanks Nomores

Rumour has it that the Essendon recruiters were very keen, but it was Knights that had the final say. Possibly burnt by the Hayden Skipworth experiment in previous years. Didn't want to be seen as "wasting" a draft pick on an experienced flop 

Good luck to him and Freo. It was the best thing for his career. Honestly I don't think he'd find a starting spot at the Bombers. 

Duckman


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## nomore4s (8 April 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> Honestly I don't think he'd find a starting spot at the Bombers.




hahaha yeah I suppose you're right, what would Essendon need with a midfielder who can kick goals, find a sh!tload of the ball and actually use it. Definitely wouldn't fit in there.:

I have noticed in the first 2 games you guys haven't had many players with more then 20 touches.


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## Putty7 (8 April 2010)

nomore4s said:


> hahaha yeah I suppose you're right, what would Essendon need with a midfielder who can kick goals, find a sh!tload of the ball and actually use it. Definitely wouldn't fit in there.:
> 
> I have noticed in the first 2 games you guys haven't had many players with more then 20 touches.




Unfortunately the ones who had were probably backline players, definately a find for Freo, pity Knights looked over him and also got rid of Lloyd, but whats done is done, I have a feeling after giving it to Carlton supporters last year I might be copping a bit of carma this weekend.


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## Duckman#72 (8 April 2010)

nomore4s said:


> I have noticed in the first 2 games you guys haven't had many players with more then 20 touches.




Yes you have touched on our strength Nomores - our depth  Shhhhhsh!!! Don't tell the others. 

Makes it very difficult and confusing for opposing teams to tag our best player when we don't have one.   

Duckman


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## Duckman#72 (8 April 2010)

Putty7 said:


> I have a feeling after giving it to Carlton supporters last year I might be copping a bit of carma this weekend.




Yes - which Bombers team will turn up on Saturday night? I'm also worried about karma. We've won quite a few games we probably shouldn't have.

Duckman


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## Sean K (8 April 2010)

Has Williams got a touch yet? I haven't managed to watch a game yet, even though I'm back in Oz. I put him in my Supercoach team and he's scoring zip. I was expecting more from him this year. Bloody ex Hawks.


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## Putty7 (8 April 2010)

kennas said:


> Has Williams got a touch yet? I haven't managed to watch a game yet, even though I'm back in Oz. I put him in my Supercoach team and he's scoring zip. I was expecting more from him this year. Bloody ex Hawks.




To be fair Kennas delivery into our forward line hasn't exactly been stellar the first 2 games especially when you are depending on Monfries and Williams, 2 small leading forwards, to carry the workload, bombing it in and kicking in hope through the centre doesn't give them much of a chance, if Gumbleton keeps improving and Hurley comes back in it takes 2 good defenders off the smaller forwards giving them more freedom to create and crumb without that additional pressure and attention, on the weekend the whole team looked flat and the skills were woeful, I think Williams still has the ability, the ball isn't coming in lace out like the Hawk midfielders were delivering it when he was doing well, even Monfries struggled to get a kick and I think well of him in our forward line. Hille still has to get some match fitness into him, once that happens Ryder will also be more settled as a forward and Hille has yet to impose himself like he was before the knee blew out, I think the positives are there but it will be a shaky first half of the season.


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## nomore4s (9 April 2010)

Wow the Bombers have really swung the changes this week.

Thought Prismall was a bit unlucky, surely there were worse players then him on the weekend?

I really can't see you guys beating Carlton with that many changes and without Monfries who is probably the best forward in the team. If Essendon ever wanted Williams to stand up this is the week.

On Williams:



nomore4s said:


> Williams is probably past his best but could still be handy for your mob considering the lack of depth in the forward line Essendon currently have.
> 
> Only problem could be, none of your blokes will be able to hit him when he leads, lol:






nomore4s said:


> Williams is lazy at times looks disinterested, new club might do him good. Still capable of kicking 40-60 goals a year - if your midfield can deliver it to him :.




:


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## Putty7 (9 April 2010)

nomore4s said:


> I really can't see you guys beating Carlton with that many changes and without Monfries who is probably the best forward in the team. If Essendon ever wanted Williams to stand up this is the week.




I thought Howlett played a fairly good game last week as well and didn't deserve the axe, what is Knights doing with Hurley, one of the young shining lights at the end of last season along with Pears but still doing pennance, Davey and Myers deserved the axe they were ordinary to say the least. 

Agree nomore4's, I can't see them beating Carlton but footy is a funny game week to week, depends if they turn up to play.


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## Duckman#72 (10 April 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> New players like Howlett and Gumbleton showed some encouraging signs and had a good go. However experienced players like Winderlich and Dyson were very poor.
> 
> Based on that performance we need to make some changes next week. Lovett-Murray back in. Davey out, he continually drops the ball and is currently light years away from being an AFL footballer. After watching his brother play on Saturday, the difference is stark. Essendon want him to be another Aaron Davey, Rioli, Lovett, Leon Davis but he's just not the guy. Bring Reimers back in and tell the bugger to play defence or stay in the magoos.
> 
> Duckman




Well the hoodoo for the Blues continues!!! You beauty!!!

The ins for the Bombers were telling. Lovett-Murray played very well. As did Melksham and Colyer - great first games. Wow -leg speed with skills - lookout Alwyn Davey!! Houli got better as the game went on and for mine he should be automatic starter each week. Reimers was played well. He looked dangerous which is what Monfires wasn't doing. 

And with Ryder, Gumbleton and Reimers  providing targets in the forward line it took the pressure off Williams who got some ball. Dyson and Winderlich were much better this week.  

Hocking is a dark horse. He gets better each week and is almost unrecogniseable from 2 seasons ago - not blessed with great leg speed but is in the Watson mould of wonderful speed of ball movement.  Our ruckmen are still slightly off the pace - but Ryder showed glimpses of form tonight.

What can you say about Fletcher - he is a legend. Reads the play like no other.

It was a good win without getting carried away. A lot of Carlton goals came from Bomber stuff-ups/sloppiness (Hooker showing shades of Kepler Bradley), and Essendon were far from a well-oiled machine. But having said, the way the teams came out, it was always the Bombers game to lose particularly after half time. Well done guys. Next week Eagles in Perth. Is there a worse travelling team than Bombers? WC looked poor against Kangeroos. If we want to be in the finals, we need to win games against the likes of second tier teams like Carlton, Hawthorn and lowly West Coast.

Duckman


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## Sean K (11 April 2010)

Got the makings of a very good team for 2012 I reckon. Should just keep getting better and better. Those newbies went surprisingly well. Melksham especially. Any chance Hille will never recap his best form? That knee could have taken a few % out of his game perhaps. Maybe he just needs game time.


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## Duckman#72 (11 April 2010)

kennas said:


> Those newbies went surprisingly well. Melksham especially.




Melksham walked off the ground at quarter time as the leading possession getter. In his first game!! 

As for Hille - I don't think 3 games is enough to judge whether Hille has been permanently affected by his knee. Big blokes need more game time to work into form. We'll have to judge later in the season. It is the "work around the ground" not just the ruck work that Paddy and Hille have been lacking so far this year (although Paddy showed a bit this week). I think we all remember seeing Hille bob up to take a crucial mark in defence, punch away or strong pack mark in the forward line. He is not imposing himself on the games yet. Hopefully just a mix of low confidence and lower match fitness. 

What changes for WC on Friday? Hurley is due back in - is he automatic inclusion? Do you give McVeigh another week off after his five days in hospital? Monfries/Neagle - do we need another forward or is Hurley the extra forward.

Duckman


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## Sean K (11 April 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> What changes for WC on Friday? Hurley is due back in - is he automatic inclusion? Do you give McVeigh another week off after his five days in hospital? Monfries/Neagle - do we need another forward or is Hurley the extra forward.
> 
> Duckman



McVeigh should probably come back in depending on recovery I suppose. 

Apparantly Hurley was very good for Bendigo and kicked 4. Straight back in I reckon. 

In The Age:



> Essendon defender Michael Hurley was best on ground for the Bendigo Bombers with four goals.
> 
> Hurley is eligible to play for the Bombers in their clash with West Coast on Friday night after a three-game club ban for allegedly assaulting a taxi driver after The Footy's Show's grand-final program last year.
> 
> Yesterday, he starred in the forward line for the Bombers, along with Alwyn Davey, who produced some fine defensive pressure. Jason Laycock, in the ruck, was also impressive.


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## Lachlan6 (12 April 2010)

Very happy with the game. It was'nt the prettiest to watch but really well ground out. I was not expecting too much out of Melksham and especially Colyer early this year but both were very good. Especially Melksham. I was over the moon after the game. There was one brilliant passage of play where he tackled ran off the wing got the gave off the handball in the goal square for a goal. His pressure and usage of the ball is extremely impressive. A very astute pick up. Mini Del Santo? Time will tell. 

Overall, positive signs. I am still puzzled as to why Reimers was ever dropped. Prismall back in this week and please, please, please do not put Neagle in the same category as Michael Hurley. Daylight between them. Hurley straight in, absolutely no questions asked.


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## Putty7 (13 April 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> Hocking is a dark horse. He gets better each week and is almost unrecogniseable from 2 seasons ago - not blessed with great leg speed but is in the Watson mould of wonderful speed of ball movement.  Our ruckmen are still slightly off the pace - but Ryder showed glimpses of form tonight.
> 
> Duckman




Hocking reminds me of Smokin Joe the way he plays, as for Hille I think he needs a bit of time to get some confidence and fitness back into the body, when your knee has buckled under you the season before it's probably going to be a mindset worry of a reoccurence as well as the lost training and game time, Dean Solomon went through the same years ago, he was never quite the same player when he came back from that pre season injury. 

Not fancy but 4 points more than we were looking like getting after the previous outing and some more young guns blooded, Hurley straight in no questions asked, if Spike has been that crook leave him another week, a roadtrip to Perth won't do him any favours and he will be rested and hungrier than ever to be in the following week.

Thankyou to the Football Gods lol


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## Sean K (15 April 2010)

Surprised McVeigh didn't go straight back in. Maybe a sign of the strength in the team at the moment. And Hurley to FF to push 4 goal Williams onto the bench. Looking pretty good. If we're lucky with injuries this year, maybe looking to scrape into the 8 again.


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## Duckman#72 (16 April 2010)

kennas said:


> Surprised McVeigh didn't go straight back in. Maybe a sign of the strength in the team at the moment.




With Stanton out with a back injury, McVeigh must have been a fair way off not to have been picked. They are missing games and toughness in the midfield. But for what it's worth I'm glad they didn't rush him back in - he's not the player he was in 2008.

I hope that Hams isn't the Easgles version of Freo's Michael Barlow - a mature age rookie playing AFL for the first time who blows away his opponents. It will be an interesting game. The ruck divisions for both sides are potentially fantastic on paper, but on current form - not so good. The forward lines for both are still very much works in progress. I think Essendon has a distinct advantage in the backline, but Eagles might have small advantage in the midfield. Add in Eagles home ground advantage and Essendon's woeful away record and it makes for a good matchup.

Kenna's made the comment of "sneaking into the eight". They MUST win tonight if they are serious about finals.

Putty - good call about Hocking and Smokin Joe. Both have that "lopey" run. Are you going to the game?  

Duckman


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## Sean K (16 April 2010)

The game is on at bloody 11.30pm in Sydney tonight.

Is it on Foxtel in a bar in Sydney somewhere?


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## Sean K (16 April 2010)

kennas said:


> The game is on at bloody 11.30pm in Sydney tonight.
> 
> Is it on Foxtel in a bar in Sydney somewhere?



Ah, disregard. Not on. Looks like a late night for me.


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## prawn_86 (16 April 2010)

kennas said:


> Is it on Foxtel in a bar in Sydney somewhere?




We are going to have to find a place that shows the AFL games live. I think there is one in Newtown...


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## Sean K (16 April 2010)

prawn_86 said:


> We are going to have to find a place that shows the AFL games live. I think there is one in Newtown...



Seems like this game is not on anywhere until 11.30 ish.

Sydaney sux for AFL. 

It's really a backward State, NSW. 

Backward!!

Such a shame because it looks great.

Game will hopefully be on a radio station live from 8.30 ish, when WA wakes up.


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## gav (17 April 2010)

Bit quiet today boys?


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## gav (17 April 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> I hope that Hams isn't the Easgles version of Freo's Michael Barlow - a mature age rookie playing AFL for the first time who blows away his opponents. It will be an interesting game. *The ruck divisions for both sides are potentially fantastic on paper*, but on current form - not so good. The forward lines for both are still very much works in progress. I think Essendon has a distinct advantage in the backline, but Eagles might have small advantage in the midfield. Add in Eagles home ground advantage and Essendon's woeful away record and it makes for a good matchup.
> 
> Kenna's made the comment of "sneaking into the eight". They MUST win tonight if they are serious about finals.
> 
> ...




Do Essendon even have ruckmen?  If they do, I didn't see them last night!   Not only did Cox/NicNat dominate the hitouts, but the "hit outs to advantage" was huge!  They were great in general play as well.   

West Coast pretty much laid down in the second half.  Despite the half time gap, Essendon had ample opportunity to win the match.


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## GumbyLearner (17 April 2010)

gav said:


> Bit quiet today boys?




I read a recent story about this fella. Most league coaches think he will be one of the future best in league 'citing his freakish athleticism'. I had watched last night for parts and he is bloody quick and bulked up for his size and age. If he stays free of injury it's likely that he will become the best ruckman in the league. 

Why have West Coast produced such good mobile ruckman in recent years? Even Freo have that monster 211. Their third choice Seaby has ended up at Sydney and is having a solid season. Gardiner ended up at St.Kilda. 

Looks like WC have recruited a gun. NicNat was still running at the end of the final qtr. Huge engine. 

I noticed in the 3rd qtr Gumbleton was moved into the ruck and tried his guts out against NicNat. Then Essendon kicked their 1st goal up until the 26 minute mark of the 1st qtr. After WC kicked 8 or 9 straight. Too many passengers for the Bombers imo.


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## nomore4s (17 April 2010)

gav said:


> Do Essendon even have ruckmen?  If they do, I didn't see them last night!   Not only did Cox/NicNat dominate the hitouts, but the "hit outs to advantage" was huge!  They were great in general play as well.




That's a bit harsh, while Hille was smashed at the hitouts I thought he was one of the few Bombers that actually had a crack last night, he is just not in Cox or NicNat's class atm.



> West Coast pretty much laid down in the second half.  Despite the half time gap, Essendon had ample opportunity to win the match.




This I agree with, Essendon had chances to kick 5 or 6 goals in the 3rd quarter and get themselves back in the game but couldn't find the big sticks.

West Coast weren't much chop last night imo, plenty of turnovers etc but to be able to blow the Bombers out of the water like that in the second quarter highlights just where the bombers are at atm. Most of Essendon goals in that first quarter were from very poor West Coast turnovers and besides them the bombers never looked like scoring.

I was going to comment after Essendon's win last week about how ordinary they looked against the blues even though they won but thought I would give them the benefit of the doubt and wait to see how they preformed against the Eagles. The Blues were woeful last week and Essendon only just managed to win it really and after last nights game I can see why.

There is pretty much no forward line atm, Gumby looks like an athletic tall forward but he has no idea how to get hold of the footy, Williams spends more time trying to get kicks up the ground cause he can't get a kick in the 50 cause it never gets there with any decent delivery, why not play him from the goal square to at least provide some sort of target? Also missed a player like Davey/Jetta (even though I don't really rate either) to provide a bit of pace and forward line pressure.

How Prismall couldn't get a game last night with both Stanton & McVeigh out is beyond me, at least he can get his hands on the footy and has a crack. Way too many passengers for the Bombers atm and there is no doubt they have taken a huge step backwards this year so far.

Bombers could be 1 or 2 and alot in a few weeks with hard games coming up, and the thing that annoys me is even though Hawthorn are playing a lot better footy then Essendon atm we could also be 1 or 2 and a lot in a few weeks.


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## IFocus (17 April 2010)

gav said:


> Bit quiet today boys?




Lets hope he stays injury free for a 19 year old he has a amazing future hopefully the Eagles will keep a close eye on him as he develops.

Pity about Kerr's injury  at least he takes the top tagger all the time actually got a few frees last night which has been a long time coming.

Essendon didn't look good even with WC turn overs.


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## nomore4s (17 April 2010)

IFocus said:


> Lets hope he stays injury free for a 19 year old he has a amazing future hopefully the Eagles will keep a close eye on him as he develops.




How/why Melb took Jack Watts over him will forever be one of the worlds great mysteries


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## Duckman#72 (17 April 2010)

This thread isn't titled "Supporter Support" for no reason Gav

Another abysmal interstate visit. Weak as the proverbial. Where to start? I'll gather some thoughts and post later on about  our "long term prospects". For now I'll just respond to some comments.



nomore4s said:


> That's a bit harsh, while Hille was smashed at the hitouts I thought he was one of the few Bombers that actually had a crack last night, he is just not in Cox or NicNat's class atm.




Both Hille and Ryder were shown up last night. Hille did his best work in the last quarter when the game was all over. There were a number of times in the first two quarters when he squibbed the contest. Absolutely atrocious. Unfortunately for the Bombers Nicnat played his best game of the season proper, and as for Cox, Dennis Cometti commented that it was Cox's best game for 18 months. But Essendon has bigger problems than just the ruck! 



nomore4s said:


> This I agree with, Essendon had chances to kick 5 or 6 goals in the 3rd quarter and get themselves back in the game but couldn't find the big sticks.




If it's not bad enough that we have a dysfunctional forward line - we miss set shots that 3rd grade country players should be making.



nomore4s said:


> West Coast weren't much chop last night imo, plenty of turnovers etc but to be able to blow the Bombers out of the water like that in the second quarter highlights just where the bombers are at atm. Most of Essendon goals in that first quarter were from very poor West Coast turnovers and besides them the bombers never looked like scoring.
> I was going to comment after Essendon's win last week about how ordinary they looked against the blues even though they won but thought I would give them the benefit of the doubt and wait to see how they preformed against the Eagles. The Blues were woeful last week and Essendon only just managed to win it really and after last nights game I can see why.




You could argue Nomores that it was last weeks game in reverse (with the exception of the 2nd quarter burst of goals). Last week Carlton's forward line was in complete disarray and really relied on umpiring decisions and poor Essendon turnovers to stay in the game. Carlton were pathetic last week. Essendon were pathetic this week.   




nomore4s said:


> There is pretty much no forward line atm, Gumby looks like an athletic tall forward but he has no idea how to get hold of the footy, Williams spends more time trying to get kicks up the ground cause he can't get a kick in the 50 cause it never gets there with any decent delivery, why not play him from the goal square to at least provide some sort of target? Also missed a player like Davey/Jetta (even though I don't really rate either) to provide a bit of pace and forward line pressure.




Agree - the forward line was always going to be our big problem this year. The Bombers have only got themselves to blame. Gumby out with injury over the past 3 years doesn't help - but you show me one other club that has put all its eggs in so few baskets in the forward line. 



nomore4s said:


> How Prismall couldn't get a game last night with both Stanton & McVeigh out is beyond me, at least he can get his hands on the footy and has a crack. Way too many passengers for the Bombers atm and there is no doubt they have taken a huge step backwards this year so far.




With hindsight Prismall should have played. I'm not sure that we've taken a huge step backwards this year - because realistically with the retirement of Lloyd, the changeover to the new forward line and with the draw I don't think Essendon were ever likely to figure in the finals anyway. We overachieved last year. A huge step backwards is winning a grand final and then not even playing finals the following year! Let's keep things in perspective Nomores - this is a  side that was bundled out of the finals by 100 points last September.   



nomore4s said:


> Bombers could be 1 or 2 and alot in a few weeks with hard games coming up, and the thing that annoys me is even though Hawthorn are playing a lot better footy then Essendon atm we could also be 1 or 2 and a lot in a few weeks.




You're right - it doesn't mean much at the end of the day.


----------



## nomore4s (17 April 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> I'm not sure that we've taken a huge step backwards this year - because realistically with the retirement of Lloyd, the changeover to the new forward line and with the draw I don't think Essendon were ever likely to figure in the finals anyway. We overachieved last year. A huge step backwards is winning a grand final and then not even playing finals the following year! Let's keep things in perspective Nomores - this is a  side that was bundled out of the finals by 100 points last September.




lol, Fair point but injuries played a big part in that.

I think you guys have taken a big step backwards. You are nowhere near as competitive as you were for most of last year, that run & flair you showed signs of last year is completely missing this year.

On a side note - How slow is Hocking? lol.


----------



## Sean K (17 April 2010)

Watched a replay of the second half and it was pretty even. Pretty ordinary footy too. Too many errors.

Did Hurley get a kick?

Gumby looks like he could come good if he stays on the field.


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## gav (17 April 2010)

GumbyLearner said:


> Why have West Coast produced such good mobile ruckman in recent years? Even Freo have that monster 211. Their third choice Seaby has ended up at Sydney and is having a solid season. Gardiner ended up at St.Kilda.




Unfortunately the same can't be said about West Coast's forward line.  Our best full forward in the last 20 years has been Peter Sumich   Even when you look back 4-5 years ago when West Coast were at their best, they had no real forward line.  They relied on midfielders to kick a couple of goals each (which they did consistantly).  

LeCras is the best small forward in the league IMO, but we need a decent big target up forward with him.  Some say Kennedy will play this role, but I'm not convinced yet.  Now with Kerr injurred, the number 1 opposition tagger will go straight to Priddis.  It seems Cox and NicNat better get used to roving their own hit outs...



nomore4s said:


> This I agree with, Essendon had chances to kick 5 or 6 goals in the 3rd quarter and get themselves back in the game but couldn't find the big sticks.
> 
> West Coast weren't much chop last night imo, plenty of turnovers etc but to be able to blow the Bombers out of the water like that in the second quarter highlights just where the bombers are at atm. Most of Essendon goals in that first quarter were from very poor West Coast turnovers and besides them the bombers never looked like scoring.




I agree.  West Coast fought hard for the footy in the first quarter, but missed opportunities and turn overs kept the Bombers in the game.  They were good in the second quarter, but were terrible in the second half.  Any half-decent team would have beaten West Coast comfortably last night.

I've been a big critic of Watson in the past, but he was one of the few that put in 100% for the Dons last night.


----------



## Duckman#72 (17 April 2010)

gav said:


> Unfortunately I've been a big critic of Watson in the past, but he was one of the few that put in 100% for the Dons last night.




Yes his work in and around traffic is one of the best in the current game. He tried hard and was one of a very few Bombers that could hold his head high from last night.

Duckman


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## Lachlan6 (17 April 2010)

kennas said:


> Gumby looks like he could come good if he stays on the field.




Yes Kennas we actually were only blown away in the second qtr when Natanui ran rings around us. Why Knights took soo long to react to this I will never know. Hille was clearly mismatched in the ruck and Ryder was clearly the better option against Natanui. 

But Gumby. I have been holding out hope for him and continue to do so I suppose, but there was a replay of one of his set shots. It was appaling. He actually _threw_ the ball up before kicking it. It was a horrible technique and I must say has given me some serious doubts about his football ability. 

Was Welsh on Priddis? Probably should have been. Not a great deal to take from that game. Theoretically we can only drop 7 more games from here on. Going to be tough.


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## Duckman#72 (18 April 2010)

Which of the following summaries do you agree with?


Firstly - The Glass is Half Full

2010 was always going to be a difficult one. We overachieved last year and spluttered into the finals on the back of Hawthorn and Port Adelaide performing worse than us. So while there were elements of 2009 that were exciting and encouraging - we were a long way from "Arriving" as a credible football club. 

After 4 rounds last year we were 2-2, this year we are 1-3. In a nutshell, the big difference was losing to Freo this year, whereas last year we won at Telstra Dome. The loss to Freo, while painful, revolves around some very strong form lines around them. Last year there was the obligatory woeful loss interstate to Port, there was a win over Carlton and there was a mediocre, tired loss against North. 

While we have gone backwards, I'm not convinced that it is either huge nor big. People sometimes remember Essendon in 2009 as the "up and coming" competitive speed machine after their upset wins over Carlton, St Kilda, Collingwood and Hawthorn. What they forget are the losses to North, West Coast, Richmond and Freo. We played some very disappointing football in 2009 - we couldn't even sure up 8th spot until the last week of the home and away rounds (despite the other contenders doing everything they could to get us over the line). 

We have had one disappointing loss this year - Eagles. We were competitive and agressive against Geelong up until midway through the 3rd quarter. We were competitive against Freo until the second half. We beat Carlton. While we haven't "clicked" this year, it hasn't been all bad. 

Don't forget that it was only after we lost Hille in the ANZAC Day game that Ryder hit his straps and we started to gain momentum. Until then we were performing exactly like this year - some very good, some very bad, most of it not very memorable. 

While the start of the season has been disappointing, there are some storng signs in Melksham, Colyer, Howlett and Gumbleton. Hurley is now back in the side and should provide a strong forward option. Essendon Version 2010 is slightly below Essendon Version 2009 at this stage of the season - ANZAC Day and the next 6 weeks will determine how this football club is really travelling.

Secondly - The Glass is Half Empty

When I first started this thread it was in 2007 and Essendon had experience another loss from a game that they "should have won". The disappointing aspect and worrying thing is that 3 years later and we are still writing about the same thing. Have we developed, matured and now closer to success then back in 2007? Probably not. And don't forget 2007 was still 6 years after their last Grand Final appearance (and ultimate breakup of the 2001 powerhouse team). So what have the Bombers achieved in almost a decade of football? 

You could argue that they are a team full of potential, with some exciting players, some servicebale old warriors, some players who will never make it and some players that you love to watch. The sad thing is that you could make that assessment of most of the current AFL sides. Essendon potential is no more or less than most others - and in fact it is arguable that teams like Melbourne, North Melbourne and certainly Fremantle have now jumped above them on the rung as teams they will be fighting for for the last couple spots son the ladder.

How did it get to this? Essendon's draft picks have been in the main - forgettable. I know injuries play a part, but while other teams have been picking franchise players the Bombers have been going nowhere. Essendon is the only club that has never had a No 1 draft pick......but they way we seem to pick players, it wouldn't matter if we did, we'd pick the wrong one. 

If you look at our list - it is full of players that are what I call "serviceable clubmen". The fill the position but on their own you need to question if they have the class, skills and ability to take the club to the next level. I'll give you some examples. Dyson, Winderlich, Welsh, McVeigh(now), Slattery to name a few. Don't get me wrong - these guys can play a blinder. It is just that in between them there are 6 ordinary performances. 

Essendon is no closer to finding consistency in skill and decision making than they were 5 years ago. We keep talking about the potential of players like Dempsey, Hooker, Daniher, Reimers, Monfires and how good they'll be "soon". There comes a time when you look down your list and these players have played 5 seasons and 100 games....and you are still saying "they'll develop soon". Arguably our last 8 years has been about supporters waiting for these players to match their potential!!! What is to say that the 2010 are any closer to meeting theirs?? Nothing.    

Duckman


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## DAZT49 (18 April 2010)

The club has made some poor decisions over a long period of time.
First and biggest was not to sack Sheedy at half time in the 1990 Grand Final .
For such a rich club I dont know why we went "on the cheap" to get a coach like Knights.
Gary O'Donnel was an obvious choice after a successful apprentiship under Mathews (spit!!) at Brisbane.
The railroading of Loydy,(Whos going to kick 5-6 goals a game??)
 the demise of Lucas and Murray left the forward half looking weak. 
Maybe Hille could slot at full forward but he is too slow.
Rider?
And while I was no big fan of McFee (most uncontested marks in AFL history?)on occassions he could be a presence,especially when he had his hair tipped a la Roo.
McVeigh is good but just looks angry all the time.
The rest are plodders or little blokes running around.
Jobe Watson...Essondons most overated player ever.
My local footy club, The Mooroolbark Falcons (where I believe
Hocking comes from) could give my team of 50 years a go atm.
Sorry if I seem bitter.
This can all be put right if we flog the Maggies on Anzac Day


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## Duckman#72 (18 April 2010)

DAZT49 said:


> This can all be put right if we flog the Maggies on Anzac Day




 That is so true. Right out of the "glass half full" handbook. 

A week can be a long time in football. It is dangerous to make an assessment of teams based on week to week performances. Look how well Hawthorn had been playing and how competitive they've been this year and look at the display they threw up last night. If it weren't for Luke Hodge and the terrible kicking display by the Pies it would have been well in excess of a 100 point loss.    

As a side issue - Nomores, you asked how slow Hocking was. Based on last nights game I'd say about as fast as Sam Mitchell(lol).

We beat the Pies next week - and the glass is looking half full. We lose and it is back to half empty.

Duckman


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## IFocus (18 April 2010)

nomore4s said:


> How/why Melb took Jack Watts over him will forever be one of the worlds great mysteries




There was a big question over the big lamp shade as to whether he had a football head. I watched him play a fair bit at Swan Districts and to be honest I wasn't convinced   

I am now


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## Sean K (18 April 2010)

I'm neither half full or empty in regard to judging Essendon. 

I think our past few years are just part of the natural cycle of things as opposed to any really bad decisions. 

I think the club made some very poor recruiting decisions over the past few years, but some others were good. The balance probably tips to the poor side perhaps.

I don't understand why O'Donnel wasn't given the job ahead of Knights. He must have cocked up the interviews. Or, he's just not main coach material, he should have stepped up by now if he was going to.


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## Putty7 (20 April 2010)

No Duckman thankfully I didn't go to the game, West Coast were ordinary and Essendon were worse, another game where the Auskick at half time would have been the highlight of the night for Dons supporters.

This week we have Collingwood who smashed the Hawks and if they had of kicked straight it would have been worse, admittedly they didn't have Buddy but still, they are travelling better than we are as nomore4s has pointed out.

You can't pin all the blame on the coach, but at the moment we are playing a pre Mark Harvey Dockers style of play that lost them so many games and never looked like delivering the goods, where is the dash and run and move forward at all costs brand of football that was so impressive early last year aka Geelong style, gone because teams worked out how to counter it by blocking the run through the centre of the ground and Knights doesn't seem to have a plan B.  

It has been said in reference to James Hird becoming a future Essendon coach that a great player doesn't necessarily transfer into being a great coach, I think we may be seeing that now with what we have. You can say a lot about how bad the players are etc etc but they are playing to a game plan which isn't working. 

At the end of the first quarter we were still in with half a chance, the second quarter most of the team was in the Eagles forward half trying to thwart big Nicks influence, if Ryder had gone to the ruck it would have been a better match up with Hille taking Cox, still not ideal but a better match up, the few turn overs we got in the second quarter had no where to go but back into the Eagles forward half because there was nothing there, why play like that when your opposition just isn't playing that well, you may as well concede the game before you go to the trouble of getting on a plane. We got a few goals in the last quarter but it was all over by then and the Eagles had gone home. 

When Ryder actually went for the ball and jumped early he looked ok against Nick Nat, when he and Hille focused on the man and not the ball they looked second rate. With a young ruckman jump into it early and make him earn it and maybe counter some of the dominance but go the ball that's what you are there for to win the bloody ruck contest. 

Yes I am still a bit angry and it's now Tuesday, a few days having passed,  supporter support is a good title for this thread and we are going to need it. If they manage to pull a rabbit out of the hat and beat the Collywobblers I would be very surprised, still it would go with my theory that they are following the Dockers style of old, they only showed up twice a year to do the Eagles.


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## Duckman#72 (20 April 2010)

Putty7 said:


> It has been said in reference to James Hird becoming a future Essendon coach that a great player doesn't necessarily transfer into being a great coach, I think we may be seeing that now with what we have. You can say a lot about how bad the players are etc etc but they are playing to a game plan which isn't working.




I watch James Hird "On the Couch" and relish the thought of him one day pulling the reins at Bomberland. The man is all class at whatever I've seen him attempt. There's a fair chance coaching would be no different.

Duckman


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## Sean K (20 April 2010)

Going to the game this weekend. First time I will have seen one live in 3 years. Whoohoo!!


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## Putty7 (20 April 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> I watch James Hird "On the Couch" and relish the thought of him one day pulling the reins at Bomberland. The man is all class at whatever I've seen him attempt. There's a fair chance coaching would be no different.
> 
> Duckman




I agree, I think a lot will come down to how Essendon go through the season and if they need a positive change at the end of it, there are a lot of supporters already calling for blood but Knights might still have a few tricks left up his sleeve, the second is weather or not Hirdy is keen, he doesn't do things by half and generally excells at something when he has a go, he has to want it. I don't think supporters would have a problem with it and I certainly wouldn't. 

Good onya Kennas, hope its a better game than the last few.


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## bloomy88 (20 April 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> I watch James Hird "On the Couch" and relish the thought of him one day pulling the reins at Bomberland. The man is all class at whatever I've seen him attempt. There's a fair chance coaching would be no different.
> 
> Duckman




At this stage we really need Hirdy back on the field. Would still be the best player at the club if he pulled on the boots now.

We'll knock off the Pies this week though. Go the Dons


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## Duckman#72 (25 April 2010)

Well done Collingwood - too fast, too committed, too talented.

Absolutely gutted. 

I'll comment when I am again in full control of my actions.

Duckman


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## Putty7 (25 April 2010)

Not angry today, not even surprised really, the Pies were to good from the first bounce and never looked like taking the backseat through the entire game, after watching last weeks poor effort against a weaker side I wasn't expecting much against an inform side. 

Feel a bit sorry for Kennas for having to sit through that rot after not seeing a live game for a few years but it pretty much sums up where we are at compared to one of the better sides this year. 

Hope the Auskick was worth watching Kennas


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## Putty7 (25 April 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> Well done Collingwood - too fast, too committed, too talented.
> 
> Absolutely gutted.
> 
> ...




We had a power blackout and missed the first quarter, so Western Power got some of my wrath lol, it came on for the start of the second quarter and I had to look 2 or 3 times to make sure I was seeing the score right so it was all over before I saw it get going.

I wonder if Hirdy is hurting enough yet to consider a career in coaching ?


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## Duckman#72 (25 April 2010)

Putty7 said:


> We had a power blackout and missed the first quarter, so Western Power got some of my wrath lol, it came on for the start of the second quarter and I had to look 2 or 3 times to make sure I was seeing the score right so it was all over before I saw it get going.




Bombers supporters thought 2006 was bad!!! Look out 2010!!! 

With the slim chance of finals now fully evaporated, the Bombers can start making some serious changes. 

With reckless abandon I'd make the following moves:

1. For the rest of the year play Houli and give him a decent chance to find his feet.

2. Start preparing Ricky Dyson for life after football. He has minimal ability and impact on a game after being around the AFL for over 6 years. Needs to go. While we are at it, may as well pack up Winderlich's locker as well. Same story. These two guys are just stopping the development of players like Howlett, Jetta etc. They are never going to be the players that make the club successful.

3. Play Neagle - Knights sure as hell didn't do much to encourage Lloyd to continue, so he better start developing a full forward quickly. If Neagle doesn't do anything get rid of him at the end of the season - but you have to play him. 

4. Our midfield is one dimensional. We are obviously missing Lovatt more than I thought we would. We cannot continue to play Welsh and McVeigh in the centre (some would say the same side). McVeigh has become just another back pocket player - his 2008 form has gone, possibly never to be seen again. As for Welsh - I never agreed with the decision to make him VC. We need some freshness and spark in the midfield. I'd play Zaharakis and Reimers in midfield roles. Watson, Prismall, Stanton, and Hocking all have a similar "feel" about them.

5. I'd give Dempsey a licence to follow the footy and play more on the ball.

6. Drop Ryder. The only reason Hille isn't being dropped is benefit of the doubt after his injury last year. Can someone explain how Hille can get outmarked by Luke Ball?  Ryder has also been woeful to date. Bring Laycock in and play him in the forward line. Let Ryder find some form in the two's and make him realise he isn't an automatic starter.

7. Do something about the game plan. PLEASE!! Is anyone else sick of watching 2 foot handpasses going backwards to a person in a worse position? 

8. Keep playing Melksham, Colyer etc and bring in Long and others ASAP. Give them game time NOW. 

9. Play Myers until the end of the season. For a high choice draft pick he's been a disappointment to date. Lets see what happens if he's a regular in the side.

10. Change tackling coaches. Some of the half-assed efforts today were straight out embarrassing. Our desire to put the body on the line was sadly missing. 

11. Don't get too attached to Hurley. With performances like that he's a certain starter for the Gold Coast.

More concerning is our attitude. We are playing like a team that doesn't believe in themselves or each other. Morale seems very low. They are not putting in the 1%er's. At least against Geelong and Freo in R1 & 2 they showed some spirit. 

Once again I can't help but think that we are no closer to finals success than we were 5 years ago. Where are our Sidebottom's , Pendlebury's, Beams' and Wellingham's?

Duckman


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## nomore4s (26 April 2010)

Don't worry Duckman, even your  lot should be able to beat the decimated Hawks next Sat night

No ruckman at all last night and with no height in our backline even Neagle & Gumby should be able to kick a bag on us. And we might even play your 2 ruckman into form for you.

I'm really starting to question Knights coaching ability, the lack of improvement in quite a few players this year is a worry, also the strength & conditioning staff need to look at putting some weight on a few of your players.

Was amusing when even the crowd are cheering everytime Essendon decided to kick out of defence instead of handballing to a team mate under more pressure then the ball carrier, certainly tells you there is something wrong with the game plan.


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## Lachlan6 (26 April 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> I watch James Hird "On the Couch" and relish the thought of him one day pulling the reins at Bomberland. The man is all class at whatever I've seen him attempt. There's a fair chance coaching would be no different.





Could not agree more. I just hope he wants to coach this team. Yesterday was like a time warp watching the game from the G. It felt like the 'long gone' days of Peverill and the like running around. What is going on with the handball a few metres to a bloke with someone right on his hammer! It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that will be be a turnover? Is Mathew Knights just not that intelligent. I really am starting to wonder. His previous record at Bendigo was woeful and although he was only assistant coach the record at Port Adelaide (SANFL) does'nt stack up either.

The problem is we cannot start messing with our new playing groups collective psyche by continually losing. Who has a direct line to Hirdy?


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## Putty7 (26 April 2010)

Lachlan6 said:


> Could not agree more. I just hope he wants to coach this team. Yesterday was like a time warp watching the game from the G. It felt like the 'long gone' days of Peverill and the like running around. What is going on with the handball a few metres to a bloke with someone right on his hammer! It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that will be be a turnover? Is Mathew Knights just not that intelligent. I really am starting to wonder. His previous record at Bendigo was woeful and although he was only assistant coach the record at Port Adelaide (SANFL) does'nt stack up either.
> 
> The problem is we cannot start messing with our new playing groups collective psyche by continually losing. Who has a direct line to Hirdy?




It was interesting to note during the commentary yesterday that the Dockers haven't resigned Mark Harvey yet, the trouble is they probably had their chance to get him when they took Knights and now Harv's has a team up and running seemingly from out of nowhere, doubt he would want to leave to start a rebuild again but you never know. 

Bomber Thompson could be another candidate with Geelongs previous success and a proven track record, it won't be long before Geelong start to get aging legs and look to start rebuilding, a few stars destined for Gold Coast may hurt them more though, would he consider a move.

James Hird, an unknown but served his carreer under Sheeds and was a strong leader at a club that had success during his time, excels at nearly everything things he does, loves the club, much loved Essendon son and would have supporters onside, would he have the ability and would he have a go.

Unless things turn around Knights head is destined for the chopping block at the end of the year, contract or not, his decisions are slow and indecisive when it comes to countering moves made by the opposition, the overall team strategy and game plan are woeful and clearly not working ( it did give me a laugh yesterday (one of the few) when the Essendon faithfull cheered when they finally kicked the ball after 5 or 6 roundabout handballs to nowhere, nothing like tying the ball up yourselves in defense to let the opposition get back in numbers ). 

Agree Duckman, start playing players who have a future at the club and persist with them for the year, either to their detriment or not, at least give them the chance to show their stuff, I know it's very early and I am being pessimistic but I haven't seen a team fielded this year which has clicked together well, there is no point recruiting players to leave them with Bendigo because they haven't quite come on, the way the season is looking we will have some priority draft picks for next season and I would rather see a new coach get those picks and have some fresh influence than wallow around for another year watching the same ol same ol, I was optimistic after the first round game against Geelong but it seems that the heart shown in that game has gone. 

The first thing I would look at is the spine, from Full back to Full forward, Pears is doing well and looks to have Full back sown up for the future, from there it gets tainted and players are being thrown around a bit as the game goes on trying desperately to find a winning combination, not a good way to win games, if we get priority draft picks look to add strength to the spine, if Mr Shuffles can't cut it as Full forward then the axe should fly and recruit one, Gumby looks better as a Centre half forward with a strong leading mark as opposed to playing man on man, Hurley maybe to Centre half back, after that who knows with what we have.

Fletcher is still playing well for 35 but can't be factored in past another year or two I wouldn't think so religate him to take the third forward as has been happening. 

Dempsey looked good when allowed to run through the centre yesterday and looked more potent than anyone else we had in the midfield or up forward. 

Reimers seems to be the only one who knows when to kick the ball, maybe they all should get pretty boots, maybe not, he should play every week for the rest of the year.

I could go on and on but I have other things to do today, Duckman lucky you built the drive in for Mrs Duckman and the Ducklings, might give you some entertainment this year because I hate to say it but don't think it's going to come from the footy


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## Putty7 (26 April 2010)

We are missing Pears for the Hawks game nomore4s so Buddy might get his chance to kick a bag, the fate of the wooden spoon might hinge on the outcome of this game lol I hope not.


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## Duckman#72 (26 April 2010)

Putty7 said:


> The first thing I would look at is the spine, from Full back to Full forward, Pears is doing well and looks to have Full back sown up for the future, from there it gets tainted and players are being thrown around a bit as the game goes on trying desperately to find a winning combination, not a good way to win games, if we get priority draft picks look to add strength to the spine, if Mr Shuffles can't cut it as Full forward then the axe should fly and recruit one, Gumby looks better as a Centre half forward with a strong leading mark as opposed to playing man on man, Hurley maybe to Centre half back, after that who knows with what we have.
> 
> Fletcher is still playing well for 35 but can't be factored in past another year or two I wouldn't think so religate him to take the third forward as has been happening.
> 
> ...




They need to start thinking outside the square and just roll the dice now. Tell the players they are playing for contracts at this point - not finals anymore.

Knights needs to look at the game plan and re-evaluate. The list does look fairly different to the one he took over a couple of years ago. He needs to take stock and seriously ask the question:

a) "Is the game plan I'm trying to implement within the team, just too difficult for the skill level, speed, decision making and experience of the current list". 

If the answer is "Yes" - how much longer am I prepare to persist with it? 

On a personal note. I think he is determined to prove his method will work - and it might with some better cattle out on the park. But we have a clash of two problems, the first being quality, in-form key position players. I don't care what your game plan is, it is going to be a bloody hard sell if you haven't got a strong Full Forward right through to Fullback. He is trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear at the moment. You might be the best mechanic in the world, but you are never going to win a Grand Prix with a Datsun 120Y.

Yes I have a soft spot for Reimers. He is a trier and has some spunk. Yes Dempsey looked good around the midfield and forward flank. I could see him as a Jared Brenan style ruck rover in time to come.

I totally agree with your comments about the fitness and conditioning coaches. This has been an ongoing issue for about 5 seasons now. Essendon's opponents regularly make the Bombers players look slow, one paced, lethargic and reluctant to chase. Maybe I'm being hard on the fitness coaches and Essendon's list is actually slow, one paced, lethargic and reluctant to chase!! 

Nomores - I wouldn't be so quick to paint the Hawks as underdogs!! After last year your guys would love to jump on the back of the Collingwood loss just to make sure there was officially no pulse left in the Bombers. Considering Dennis Cometti said that Bombers should be looking forward to Round 12 against the Tigers, I not confident for next weekend.

Putty - yes you are right. The Ducklings and I will be making use of "Movie Nights" this winter. As if things aren't bad enough with the Bombers, the eldest duckling considers himself a Collingwood supporter.


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## Sean K (26 April 2010)

Oh dear, I was in the Long Room by the 10 minute mark.

The best bits of the game were the Army band chick singing the national anthem, the bugler did a pretty good job, nice idea running through the one banner, and Gumby making a statement. 

Really, the rest was just all average. 

Fletcher just played his normal game.
Stanton gots lots of it but it was turned over or put someone else under pressure.
Reimers looks good when he gets it, but he's gotta get more of it.
Watson played his usual game.

The only other real positive out of it I think was Melksham still being in the mix after just a couple of games. Looks like a future above average runner. 

Pears has a broken arm?


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## Putty7 (26 April 2010)

> the eldest duckling considers himself a Collingwood supporter.




Bit of controversy in the Duckman camp lol, yes Kennas, Pears did his arm yesterday so poor old Fletcher will have to carry the backline for the better part of another season.


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## Putty7 (27 April 2010)

Now no Reimers, Richmond in 4 weeks isn't a certainty to pencil in at the moment, I hope they have a few ideas down there this week on how to play against the Hawks.


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## JAKSPARA (27 April 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> Bombers supporters thought 2006 was bad!!! Look out 2010!!!
> 
> With the slim chance of finals now fully evaporated, the Bombers can start making some serious changes...................... Once again I can't help but think that we are no closer to finals success than we were 5 years ago. Where are our Sidebottom's , Pendlebury's, Beams' and Wellingham's?
> 
> Duckman






Hi Duckman,
Absolutely agree, we need a serious restructure and fast. No need plodding along down the same path. It's obvious the current list isn't able to match it with the best, more focus needs to be given to the young players that are showing promise ie. Reimers, Melksham, Colyer, Howlett, Lonergan, Prismall, Dempsey etc. If we dont cut the dead wood so to speak then these promising young players will not be let to develop quickly. We need to sacrifice a few years of winning games to give them a go, so no need to play the has beens that won't play a roll once our side has developed. Give the young ones the experience i say and relegate the below players to Bendigo and get something for them at seasons end while we still can and develop a side that will mature at the same time. How much more can we take of Knights sipping from his 600ml Coke bottle when he should be on the phone moving players around or giving some direction, DO SOMETHING!!! He just looks like a dumbfounded dear in the headlights, no passion

OK, at season end........

OUT: Knights, Winderlich, Welsh, McVeigh, Slattery, Dyson (could be more added at end of season)

IN: HIRD(coach), Lloyd(ass. coach) Draft picks for the above players.


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## Sean K (28 April 2010)

JAKSPARA said:


> OK, at season end........
> 
> OUT: Knights, Winderlich, Welsh, McVeigh, Slattery, Dyson (could be more added at end of season)
> 
> IN: HIRD(coach), Lloyd(ass. coach) Draft picks for the above players.



Yes, on the right path here.

I'm not sure if Lloyd is coach material though. He's never inspired me, maybe he's better behind the scenes. Keep O'Donnell as second man I think. 

Knights must go soley based on pushing Lloyd a year too early. He had another one in him as a forward pocket long target taking a key defender. Stupid really. 

I'm on the fence with McVeigh until he gets a few games underhis belt.


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## Putty7 (28 April 2010)

Lloyd as a goal kicking coach could be an option Kennas, whoever is doing the scouting and recruiting might want to get the chop as well, so many promising players slipped through the fingers the last few years, one of them trained with us for a while.


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## nomore4s (28 April 2010)

Can someone explain how Prismall can't get a game in that team?

It's not like Essendon have too many players that can regularly put in 20+ possession games, especially when you have a host of other players under-performing.


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## Putty7 (29 April 2010)

nomore4s said:


> Can someone explain how Prismall can't get a game in that team?
> 
> It's not like Essendon have too many players that can regularly put in 20+ possession games, especially when you have a host of other players under-performing.




A bit like Howlett not getting a regular game, both have shown talent when played and then they get sent back to Bendigo, the mind boggles.


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## nomore4s (29 April 2010)

Putty7 said:


> A bit like Howlett not getting a regular game, both have shown talent when played and then they get sent back to Bendigo, the mind boggles.




Pretty sure Howlett is injured.


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## Putty7 (29 April 2010)

You could be right Nomore4's, he did front up for Bendigo last week along with Mr Shuffles, Prismall etc.


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## DAZT49 (29 April 2010)

Its seems Knights doesnt have it in him to give the team a bake.
I would have thought 1/4 time v pies on Anzac day he should have gone bananas at the pathetic effort, that was THE time to go off.
I knew the game was lost when he didnt (well I knew 10 minutes into the first quarter really.
Terry Daniher as coach??????????


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## Duckman#72 (29 April 2010)

JAKSPARA said:


> Hi Duckman,
> How much more can we take of Knights sipping from his 600ml Coke bottle when he should be on the phone moving players around or giving some direction, DO SOMETHING!!! He just looks like a dumbfounded dear in the headlights, no passion
> 
> OK, at season end........
> ...




I'd also add:

BETTER WATCH OUT, YOU'RE  ON THE HIT LIST: Monfries, Davey and Jetta 

When our forward line is as young and inexperienced as it is, and is getting the type of ball delivery from the midfield, it is very difficult to expect a small forward to be a big danger. Having said that.......Monfries needs to continue developing skills and abilities to enable him to become a forward threat week in week out. A great example of a player that has flatlined (if not downward trending) over the past couple of seasons. In 2007 and 2008 he was being spoken about as potential captain material.   

I've said enough about Davey so I won't continue. As for Jetta - again it's been a few years since he came onto the scene and between injuries and not being given game time, who knows what we've got? We need to actually see why he is on the list. At the moment it looks as if our list exists to feed the Bendigo Bombers - not the opposite!! If he's fit play the little bugger. 

Knights is losing me fast. While I am critical of his decision not to back Lloyd for another season, we need to remember that having Lloydy on the list would have done bugger all "on the park" as he was rubbed out for the love tap on the Hawk glass jaw. From memory, he'd only be available for R7 onwards (although it would be nice to have him in for the Tigers game)

I'm not sure about Terry Daniher as coach - seems like a good support man rather than head coach. Here's a discussion point. What if Mick Malthouse was offered the position when he hands over the reins to Bucks. I think Knights and Micky come off contract at the same time. Would Micky be able to turn down another Head Coach role, when he's made it clear he wants to continue coaching? 

Nomores, I have no idea why Prismall is not playing. I heard a rumour that the club was not impressed with his pressure, chase and intensity, But Prismall is not the only one in that boat. If Mr Shuffles, Prismall and to a lesser extent Howlett are fit, they need to be out there.  I can't believe I'm saying this but Mr Shuffles at least provides some structure and a target! His brain explosion decisions, lack of pace, lack of conditioning and poor form, seem mild in comparison with the problems of our forward line over the past couple of weeks.    

Duckman


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## Lachlan6 (29 April 2010)

nomore4s said:


> Can someone explain how Prismall can't get a game in that team?



 It is absurd. The guy is a gun. The other one is Sam Lonergan. Is he injured? If not it is crazy he is not in our starting lineup. I do'nt want to think too hard about our current state, it is too damn frustrating. _Especially_ when you pencil down our best 22. I believe we our brimming with more than capable players.


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## Lachlan6 (29 April 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> BETTER WATCH OUT, YOU'RE  ON THE HIT LIST: Monfries, Davey and Jetta



 Spot on. Monfries is overated and frustratingly inconsistent. Jetta is certainly not his namesake from the Swans, but Davey I would keep him just for his forward pressure and speed. Are we going to win a flag with Stanton, Hocking, Winderlich, Slattery, Dyson (there are a few others I ca'nt think of atm), I suggest not.


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## nulla nulla (29 April 2010)

Maybe it is time you poor agrieved Essendon supportors should change to supporting a real AFL team...like Melbourne!!  Go the Mighty Dees.


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## newbie trader (29 April 2010)

nulla nulla said:


> Maybe it is time you poor agrieved Essendon supportors should change to supporting a real AFL team...like Melbourne!!  Go the Mighty Dees.




odds for the premiership down from 250 to about 17.5 or something?


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## gav (30 April 2010)

An interesting article today from James Hird...

*A question of desire *
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/a-question-of-desire/story-e6frf9jf-1225860321989


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## Putty7 (30 April 2010)

James Hird has more class than to have a cheap shot at Knights, it would hurt the club and be of no value and that isn't what the man is about, what he has done is shown why he was a great leader at Essendon and hopefully a few of the concerned (players and coaches) will read it and wake up. Good to see he is hurting along with the rest of the supporters, might inspire him if the chance to take the reigns comes along.


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## Putty7 (1 May 2010)

Think you were right nomore4's, Hawks don't have a ruckman and the game was lost there, good signs again by Gumby, Hille played a great game and will be a starting point for his year I reckon. 

All round it was played hard by the boys as you would expect after the serves they copped during the week, still not convinced for the rest of the season as the Hawks looked woeful, Roughead had a shocker and didn't even look interested, Fletcher still having a great year, good to see him take fullback again, even better to see him have a great game and take toll for Rougheads laziness.


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## nomore4s (2 May 2010)

Putty7 said:


> Think you were right nomore4's, Hawks don't have a ruckman and the game was lost there, good signs again by Gumby, Hille played a great game and will be a starting point for his year I reckon.
> 
> All round it was played hard by the boys as you would expect after the serves they copped during the week, still not convinced for the rest of the season as the Hawks looked woeful, Roughead had a shocker and didn't even look interested, Fletcher still having a great year, good to see him take fullback again, even better to see him have a great game and take toll for Rougheads laziness.




lol, Hawthorn have more problems then a lack of a decent ruckman, everything that won us the 2008 flag is gone - pressure on the ball carrier, fitness and ability to run & break the lines, our attitude & aggression - we are extremely soft in all areas atm, our tackling is pathetic. 

Essendon clearly outplayed the hawks all night a deserved the victory but the fact we were in touching distance at 3 quarter time probably highlights where Essendon are currently at as well. Hawthorn should have been 60 points down at that stage, there is no doubt the scoreboard flattered us.


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## Putty7 (2 May 2010)

nomore4s said:


> lol, Hawthorn have more problems then a lack of a decent ruckman, everything that won us the 2008 flag is gone - pressure on the ball carrier, fitness and ability to run & break the lines, our attitude & aggression - we are extremely soft in all areas atm, our tackling is pathetic.
> 
> Essendon clearly outplayed the hawks all night a deserved the victory but the fact we were in touching distance at 3 quarter time probably highlights where Essendon are currently at as well. Hawthorn should have been 60 points down at that stage, there is no doubt the scoreboard flattered us.




At three quarter time I still wasn't sure we would win 4's, it was still close with Hawks having the momentum at the end of the 3rd, good to see Chance Bateman starting to find some form, know his family they were from the town over from where I grew up, tackling this year is way down for the Hawks which is probably what won you the flag not so long ago, not having a ruckman doesn't help, the Eagles trounced us because of it and they haven't achieved a lot more, if you are getting first hands to the ball and winning the clearances it certainly makes you look good weather you are playing champagne footy or not.

There were times coming out of defense when you just ask why, why short kick to a dead pocket and give the opposition time to react and then come unstuck by trying to be overly fancy with the ball, at the other end of the ground after a point was kicked the zone wasn't much more effective on a down side with the Hawks getting it out at times with ease, better teams will eat us alive with this sort of play. I guess time will tell.


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## JAKSPARA (2 May 2010)

Just wondering if anyone else has trouble watching the video replays on the  AFL site (Bigpond)? Havn't been able to watch an entire video, or even couple of minutes for that matter, without it freezing only to have to reload and try again from the start. Seems to be very jerky download, constantly buffering or just seizing, very frustrating particularly living in NSW when they seem to think that the Sydney Swans are the only team that deserves any coverage on tv here. Saw in the guide that ESS v HAW was a channel 10 mgame and SYD v BRIS was a FOX game yet SYD v BRIS was broadcast up here. I'm absolutly bleeding, Bombers win and i can't even get a look! ARGGGHHHHH!


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## Duckman#72 (3 May 2010)

JAKSPARA said:


> I'm absolutly bleeding, Bombers win and i can't even get a look! ARGGGHHHHH!




LOL - just like me Jak! I went camping this weekend. If I'm watching the Bombers broadcast it seems like the kiss of death at the present.

Haven't even seen a wrap up yet, although by the sounds of Nomores we weren't that convincing. Who do we have next week?

Duckman


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## Putty7 (4 May 2010)

Port Adelaide at Etihad Duckman, be interesting to watch, a few more injuries after the weekend, Dyson and Hurley although Hurley is going to be close to playing by the sounds of it, Pears and Reimers looking to be back sooner than they thought, Hille was cleared of his rough conduct charge so he will play, hopefully the Hawks game has given him the confidence he needed, he was really in great form before the knee on Anzac day last year.


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## Duckman#72 (4 May 2010)

Putty7 said:


> Port Adelaide at Etihad Duckman, be interesting to watch, a few more injuries after the weekend, Dyson and Hurley although Hurley is going to be close to playing by the sounds of it, Pears and Reimers looking to be back sooner than they thought, Hille was cleared of his rough conduct charge so he will play, hopefully the Hawks game has given him the confidence he needed, he was really in great form before the knee on Anzac day last year.




Very good.

I see Hurley has resigned for another 2 years. Excellent. I was worried we might lose him. 

I listened to ABC's Sunday Inquisition with Stan Alves, Sam Lane and Gerard Whateley - they said that the Bombers have to stop "getting themselves up" like they did against Carlton and Hawks and bring the same  intensity and energy to all their games. They've proven they are capable of doing it.

Here here!!

Duckman


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## nomore4s (4 May 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> I listened to ABC's Sunday Inquisition with Stan Alves, Sam Lane and Gerard Whateley - they said that the Bombers have to stop "getting themselves up" like they did against Carlton and Hawks and bring the same  intensity and energy to all their games. They've proven they are capable of doing it.
> 
> Here here!!
> 
> Duckman




That's funny cause I notice Knights is trying to talk it up for this weeks game against Port.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/knights-predicts-port-fireworks/story-e6frf9jf-1225862019407


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## Duckman#72 (5 May 2010)

nomore4s said:


> That's funny cause I notice Knights is trying to talk it up for this weeks game against Port.
> 
> http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/knights-predicts-port-fireworks/story-e6frf9jf-1225862019407




I don't think I explained their conversation very well. 

The conversation started by Gerard, Sam and Stan all agreeing that it must be exasperating to be a Bombers supporter, such is the huge difference in energy, effort and attitude from game to game, week to week. Their point is that they have "set the bar" for their supporters and it is no longer good enough just to "get themselves up" for certain games only to turn off the following week.  

I don't care that Knights is "talking it up" for this game. All I want to see and others want to see, is a consistent energy level each and every week. If Knights can get the boys going by bringing up old scores, all well and good. 

Duckman


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## Putty7 (5 May 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> I don't think I explained their conversation very well.
> 
> The conversation started by Gerard, Sam and Stan all agreeing that it must be exasperating to be a Bombers supporter, such is the huge difference in energy, effort and attitude from game to game, week to week. Their point is that they have "set the bar" for their supporters and it is no longer good enough just to "get themselves up" for certain games only to turn off the following week.
> 
> ...




I don't think we are alone, Hawks and Eagles supporters must be bamboozled by what is happening to them this year and Tigers supporters have been long suffering for longer than I care to remember, while I don't like the Dockers I do like Harvs and good to see him doing well, Melbourne winning a few is good to see to for their supporters, Jim Stynes is a true leader and great character at that club.

Maybe they need Hirdy to give them a spray before each game, maybe a cameo role lol.


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## Duckman#72 (8 May 2010)

Important game for the Bombers credibility today. 

A win over POrt is long, long overdue.

Duckman


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## jancha (8 May 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> Important game for the Bombers credibility today.
> 
> A win over POrt is long, long overdue.
> 
> Duckman




Another shocking umpiring display!
Dont follow either side but was hoping the Bombers would win.
Duckman what was your thoughts on the umpiring?
Also wondering in the game of AFL...Wouldn't be better if tackled & off your feet that you are to release the ball & take no part in play until you've regained your footing?
I dont think there would be as many ball ups or stopages either.
I know it's a great game so why would you want to change it but somethings just piss me off.
A great tackle only for the player tackled being able to lie on or push the ball out to a team mate doesn't sit right.
Maybe if the umpires did their job consistently it wouldn't matter.
I've played both amatuer rugby & football.
Your thoughts?


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## Duckman#72 (8 May 2010)

jancha said:


> Another shocking umpiring display!
> Dont follow either side but was hoping the Bombers would win.
> Duckman what was your thoughts on the umpiring?
> Also wondering in the game of AFL...Wouldn't be better if tackled & off your feet that you are to release the ball & take no part in play until you've regained your footing?
> ...




Hey Jancha

I didn't see the game only heard the MMM call. 

I don't know about the umpiring, I can't comment. Essendon again seemed to be let down by poor decision making and didn't run the game out as fit as the opposition. 

It was anopther performance where the commentators would say things like...."The Bombers don't seem on their game", "There is a lack of intensity from the Bombers", and "Essendon are just waiting for something to happen".

Well done to Port for saying within striking distance. 

As for your rule changes, I think if the umpires made the right calls it would be better. We still need to make the underlying fundamental  - "Not to be caught with the ball". If you get caught but had no prior opportunity - ball up. If you did and haven't disposed of it correctly - holding the ball or dropping the ball.

Duckman


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## Sean K (8 May 2010)

There were no umpiring decisions that changed the game imo. Essendon lost it, compared to Port winning. Very disappointing. A loss that could cost us a finals birth. Soft.


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## jancha (8 May 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> Hey Jancha
> 
> I didn't see the game only heard the MMM call.
> 
> ...




Enjoyable attacking game of football.
Don't always listen to what commentators always have to say...Especially Sandy Roberts!!
Port however seem to hold up better in last quarter but it could have gone either way.
One free to Port in last few minutes of the game when Essendon shovelled out the ball from the bottom of the pack & got pinged for a throw didn't help their cause.
Thats why if your tackled & dropped to the ground without prior op it's play on but only from those on their feet.
No attempts then to fake scoops under the body to another player or hold it up.
The umpires job would be more consistent then as any player attempting to play the ball while on the ground would be pinged & players standing would have a better opportunity of clearing the ball.
Free flowing game?


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## Sean K (8 May 2010)

jancha said:


> One free to Port in last few minutes of the game when Essendon shovelled out the ball from the bottom of the pack & got pinged for a throw didn't help their cause.



I think it was NLM who tunnelled the ball under himself. It was a technical throw imo. But in the overall situation of the game it was a poor decision. There were other things previous to this that cost us the game.


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## Putty7 (9 May 2010)

The game was there for the taking and Port took it, end of story, no good sooking about umpires etc, the Bombers had their chances and just couldn't put them away unfortunately, another win goes begging.


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## Duckman#72 (9 May 2010)

Putty7 said:


> The game was there for the taking and Port took it, end of story, no good sooking about umpires etc, the Bombers had their chances and just couldn't put them away unfortunately, another win goes begging.




Exactly. Another game thrown away.

You can look at any number of incidents. Monfries kicks straight from an easy shot and it is a likely win. Hits the post and Port only need 2 goals not 3 to win.

Very disappointing - again!! 

(The joke of the week was accusing Essendon of salary cap rorting!! I am still wondering how Bombers management can actually spend all the cap, considering the players they have on the list. I would be filthy if I found our they had rorted the system to pay the list we've had over the past 4 years!!)   

Duckman


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## Putty7 (16 May 2010)

Like a phoenix rising from the ashes the Bombers have handed the Saints another loss from seemingly nowhere lol, pity they didn't finish that way against Port we would be in a different position to where we are at now. 

Good to see Hille up and about again and getting back to his best, is one of my favourite players along with Fletcher from the older brigade we have left.

Let us hope that the run continues against the Tigers.


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## bloomy88 (16 May 2010)

Great win for the bombers, hopefully hilly doesn't get rubbed out because it was his best game of the season


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## Duckman#72 (17 May 2010)

Putty7 said:


> pity they didn't finish that way against Port we would be in a different position to where we are at now.
> 
> Good to see Hille up and about again and getting back to his best, is one of my favourite players along with Fletcher from the older brigade we have left.
> 
> Let us hope that the run continues against the Tigers.




Yes it might prove a costly los against Port. Going into the Saints game at 3-4 would have been much nicer than 2-5.

The Tigers always seem to have something in reserve for the Bombers (and they are getting closer to a win!)

As for Hille - from all reports on the radio it seems like he's gone for at least 2.  I haven't seen the footage.

Duckman


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## Duckman#72 (18 May 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> As for Hille - from all reports on the radio it seems like he's gone for at least 2.  I haven't seen the footage.
> 
> Duckman




Sounds like Hille should keep throwing salt over his shoulder, thanking his lucky stars, rub his rabbits foot, not change his lucky jocks or whatever else he does. It's working. It's the third time this season he's got off from a ground umpire report. 

(Can I also add, all very good decisions as well)

Duckman


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## Sean K (18 May 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> Sounds like Hille should keep throwing salt over his shoulder, thanking his lucky stars, rub his rabbits foot, not change his lucky jocks or whatever else he does. It's working. It's the third time this season he's got off from a ground umpire report.
> 
> (Can I also add, all very good decisions as well)
> 
> Duckman



Yep, gone.

Very lazy and not required.

Good win by the Dons though. Lots of positives. 

Except another bloody injury!!


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## Duckman#72 (18 May 2010)

kennas said:


> Yep, gone.
> 
> Very lazy and not required.




 What?


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## GumbyLearner (18 May 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> What?




Hille will get rubbed out eventually. He has had enough warnings this season.
Lucky he didn't get rubbed out for charging against Geelong earlier in the season. Hot-headed at present.


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## Putty7 (25 May 2010)

Good win over the Tiges, they have been our bugbear the last few years even when they were down and our tails were up they seemed to get us. Western Bullies this week, Hille and Ryder playing well, thanks 4's for running them in for us lol, what a difference a ruckman makes. Be a test this week and will show us where we are at this year I would think.


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## Putty7 (29 May 2010)

Another good win, amazing that a slight change in tactics and a few players running into some form can make all the difference to a poor start to the season, now at 5-5 with an impressive win over an inform Western Bulldogs things look to be coming along again. Instead of handballing sideways and backwards and trying to take the centre corridor approach which has been to their detriment, a kick it long, kick it to a quality lead and go through the flanks style game proved to be a great move by the coaches (thank god it finally happened). The dreaded fade out came again with 15 minutes to go in the last quarter but they had enough lead by then to hold on.

Gumby had another good game, young Jetta is really looking the goods, I liken him to a Darren Bewick type role in the forward line in the future, Davey seems to have found a new lease on life and is running and tackling as hard as ever, Jobe Watson well what can you say he has lead from the front for most of the year, Winders had a great game also, both rucks had another good game. Pears and Fletcher played well, the old warhorse taking full back on Big Bad Barry and played him pretty well as you would expect but Hall managed 5 making the most of his opportunities when they came which were few so full credit to him also. Just makes you wonder how many years Fletch has left, he still looks in great form and taking full back again has certainly bolstered the back half and freed up Pears to take the game on and go for a run.

Anyway good to see some forward momentum finally building and our season looking to be headed in the right direction again. Credit to Mathew Knights for taking a look at the way things were going and implementing the changes to make things right again, I for one was very harsh on his game plan but it would appear he is willing to change and evolve it, different teams play different styles of games and rolling up each week with a one dimensional game that suits all was soon worked out by opposition teams. The last quarter fade outs are still a concern and something that has to be looked at.


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## Sean K (29 May 2010)

Bulldogs aren't much of a barometer but looked a good win. Hopefully those not so young guys anymore can be consistent.


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## AussiePaul72 (29 May 2010)

Hey Duckman ........ great win by the Bombers over the Dogs .... that should give them a bit more confidence. A little more consistency and they will be a force in the not to distant future.
My beloved Brisbane Lions need to show a bit of pride and play as a team and they too could show their true potential. Loads of potential but not meshing as a team at present and not going to be an easy game for them against the Pies tonight.


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## Agentm (29 May 2010)

knights did what anyone should to a defensive team like the bulldogs.. handpass the ball and short pass through the corridor..

enjoyed backing the dons for the first time this season and loved watching the game...

nice return for my investment


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## Duckman#72 (30 May 2010)

Hi Guys

Its been a crazy month for me and I've hardly had a chnace to post - but I'm really enjoying the Bombers wins.

Just a couple of quick comments about the change from 5-6 weeks ago:

1. Our ruckman have run into form around the ground. Our actual ruck work can improve (funnily enough we were smashed in the clearances Friday night)

2. Jetta and Winderlich - Jetta has been a revelation! After years on the outer he seems to be hell bent on keeping his spot. Fast, ferocious and a much more mature footballer in terms of his decision making. Winder is unrecognisable from weeks 1-4 this year.

3. The forward line is working (sort of) and in part due to the improved success of the midfield with both ball delivery and also the ability to kick goals themselves (Ryder, Hille, McVeigh)

There are plenty of others but to me they are the big improvers.

Players worth recognising for their week in week out workrate right from week one:

1. I love Fletcher. Plenty of people were calling for his head a couple of years ago and he always draws criticism for not "taking the best forward", but he'd still be my first player picked.

2. Watson - always has a good crack and is leading the team well.

3. He's slow, unfashionable, unspectacular and unlikely to ever win many awards but I admire the way Heath Hocking has really developed into a crucial cog in this side. Starting to mould himself into a "Mr Dependable". 

4. Gumby keeps plugging away - good work rate without getting big stats. Won't be long before he starts beening seen as a serious forward presence by other backlines.

Duckman


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## Putty7 (30 May 2010)

> Duckman ...
> 
> 1. I love Fletcher. Plenty of people were calling for his head a couple of years ago and he always draws criticism for not "taking the best forward", but he'd still be my first player picked.




Agree with all of that Duckman, at 34 I wouldn't expect Fletcher to take the number one forward every week either but with Pears, Hooker and Hurley developing our backline looks to be in pretty good shape going forward, Hurley will play up forward as well but he is a good defensive player so there will always be a spot for him somewhere.

I have always liked Jetta and it has surprised me it has taken him so long to find his feet, it looks like a confidence thing especially in front of goals as he still looks to hand off but I think if they keep him there he will come along nicely and start taking his chances with the big sticks, I would rather see a goal sneak have that selfish gleam in his eye in front of goals like Bewick used to.

We did get smashed in the clearances but the ruck work was ok, think the ruck set ups need work with the midfielders being able to know where it is going to be tapped or fall, the opposition sharked a lot of our ruckwork.

Stanton is another who gets little credit but does a lot of work each week, it's good to see some of the younger drafts getting a chance to show their worth, not much point leaving them in Bendigo, if you have that little faith in them you shouldn't have drafted them in the first place is my opinion.

The last quarter fade outs are still there and are a worry, it's like playing 3 and a half quarters and going home, they have to learn to play a game out and bury a team while the chance is there, Port came back from the dead and beat us, the Bulldogs were not that far off in the end when they should have been 40 points away, the Dockers and Geelong games were lost after half time, it doesn't appear to be fitness so it has to be mental, hopefully it will be over come before the finals come along assuming we will play in them this year.


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## Putty7 (15 June 2010)

Well the Cats showed they were 40 points better than their first game of the year, I think Hille and Monfries are big outs at the moment, good to see Hurley get a few kicks, the first goal between Jetta and Davey was a cracker, should have switched it off after that lol, Hooker back in soon so the back line will be stronger. Hawks this week so they will be looking to set things right after the last match.


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## Sith1s (15 June 2010)

Im actually looking forward to the game this week (being a Hawthorn supporter and all).

With Hille out for you guys we may actually stand a chance in the clearances & are starting to field a pretty consistent team.  

Not many people understand that by us adding Burgoyne into our side we have released Hodge to play where ever we need him & the side has noticably improved since his addition.

Now if we can shut down Stanton & Prismall we should be fine 

My 

Sith1s


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## nomore4s (15 June 2010)

Sith1s said:


> Now if we can shut down Stanton & Prismall we should be fine




Hahaha, Prismall probably won't get a game:


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## Duckman#72 (16 June 2010)

Sith1s said:


> Now if we can shut down Stanton & Prismall we should be fine



At the moment the Bombers can't afford to play both Stanton and Prismall in the same side. They just can't consistently hit targets. 

For all the talk about his good skills Prismall has been the big disappointment for me.

Without Hille and on form, the Hawks should have this one covered.

Duckman


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## Knobby22 (16 June 2010)

Saw the Essendon - Geelong game.

Thought Essendon played OK, much better out of the centre, cleaner hands than how they were when I last saw them against Fremantle...but Geelong just looks awesome.


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## Duckman#72 (18 June 2010)

Knobby22 said:


> Saw the Essendon - Geelong game.
> 
> Thought Essendon played OK, much better out of the centre, cleaner hands than how they were when I last saw them against Fremantle...but Geelong just looks awesome.




There are times when you give your team a bake because you know they can do better and achieve a better result. (Such as Game 1 against Geelong).

And there are times when you just have to applaud how well the other side played. Geelong were absolutely awesome last week. Our boys seemed like exactly that "boys". The physicality, mental strength, decision making, execution of footskills, teamwork and fitness of the Geelong side just emphasised how far Essendon still need to go. 

If Geelong continue to play in this vein and are able to make some slight improvements they will soon be able to compare themselves with the Essendon team of 2000. 

As for tonight's game - I hope the Bombers can get themselves up for it, because all indicators suggest that Hawthorn will come out firing. The key to this game will be our forward line, midfield, backline, footskills, decision making, intensity and game plan. If we get these working in tandem then I think we might win. 

Duckman


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## Lachlan6 (18 June 2010)

At the game watching a mixed performance. Two things stand out in absolute contrasts are the performances from welsh and mcveigh. Welshy has completely tagged hodge out of the game. Doing a great job and I would think our most underrated player. Mcveigh on the other hand has to go straight back to bendigo he has had another shocker. Not chasing and almost mcpheeish in the amount of clangers he is generating. He needs to decide between media and footy.

Still in there but need to generate more run and handle the pill better.


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## nomore4s (18 June 2010)

Good win by the mighty Hawks although we made hard work of it in the end.



Duckman#72 said:


> If Geelong continue to play in this vein and are able to make some slight improvements they will soon be able to compare themselves with the Essendon team of 2000.




You can't be serious Duckman. While Essendon had 1 great season in 2000 the fact they never really followed it up(even though they did make the GF in 2001) imo makes Geelong the far superior team. Geelong are the best team I've ever seen, even better then Brisbane 2001-04 and the Hawks in the 80's.


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## Duckman#72 (18 June 2010)

nomore4s said:


> You can't be serious Duckman. While Essendon had 1 great season in 2000 the fact they never really followed it up(even though they did make the GF in 2001) imo makes Geelong the far superior team. Geelong are the best team I've ever seen, even better then Brisbane 2001-04 and the Hawks in the 80's.




 I'm surprised that it took someone so long to bite Nomores.  I agree - across the paddock Geelong are the strongest side I've seen - no doubt.

Hard to believe that after watching tonight's game, that these are the same two teams that played in Round 22 last year. Fantastic last quarter, and unfortunately for us we don't have the seasoned "go-to" guys like Buddy, Hodge and Osborne. I'll be honest - I didn't think we'd have much chance tonight. Your guys have rediscovered the passion Nomores.

Some of the form Essendon has shown in their past three games has been impressive and progressive, so I'm pretty pleased. Still not a consistent effort from all players. Hooker needed the run tonight. Jetta and Davey are almost unrecognisable from the players we saw 12 months ago. 

Looking back at the season, the losses to West Coast and Port Adelaide will end up being so costly.

Duckman


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## nomore4s (5 July 2010)

Maybe the Bombers made a mistake in not taking Hardwick when they had the chance?

The more I see of Knights the less I rate him and while it's still early in Hardwick's career the job he has done with Richmond in such a short period of time is amazing really, they have gone from being totally uncompetitive to winning 4 out of the last five and getting off the bottom. And they are only 1 win behind Essendon, Brisbane, Adelaide, Melb & Port, which after the first 6 rounds you would thought that would have been nearly impossible.

As for the bombers I'm really unsure of where they are at now, shown some good signs at times but also shown some very poor signs, will be interesting to see who they turn over at seasons end.


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## Putty7 (5 July 2010)

nomore4s said:


> Maybe the Bombers made a mistake in not taking Hardwick when they had the chance?
> 
> The more I see of Knights the less I rate him and while it's still early in Hardwick's career the job he has done with Richmond in such a short period of time is amazing really, they have gone from being totally uncompetitive to winning 4 out of the last five and getting off the bottom. And they are only 1 win behind Essendon, Brisbane, Adelaide, Melb & Port, which after the first 6 rounds you would thought that would have been nearly impossible.
> 
> As for the bombers I'm really unsure of where they are at now, shown some good signs at times but also shown some very poor signs, will be interesting to see who they turn over at seasons end.




Didn't see the game 4's but it was a pretty bleak outcome, I still reckon it was James Hird giving them a stir up after ANZAC day when Collingwood belted them that got them going earlier, would love to see him have a go at coaching the Dons, I doubt he could be any worse, one of the things I saw on the highlights was the messing around in the backline again, frustrating to say the least, are the players that bad at decision making or are the structures just wrong again and not being modified effectively as the game progresses to counter opposition tactics, anyway think you are right they need a shake up, playing 3 or 4 good games a year doesn't cut it at top level.


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## Duckman#72 (5 July 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> Nomores - I saw an interview on the weekend of Damien Hardwick. Being an ex Bomber I stopped and listened to him and I must say he speaks very well. Being up in Qld I haven't seen too much of him in that role but based on how he spoke and what he spoke about - he looks a senior coach at some stage for sure......(can we please have him back).
> 
> Duckman




Nomores, these are the comments I made back in 2007 about Damien Hardwick. I thought he showed the makings of a good senior coach back then.



			
				Nomores said:
			
		

> As for the bombers I'm really unsure of where they are at now, shown some good signs at times but also shown some very poor signs, will be interesting to see who they turn over at seasons end.




Welcome to our world Nomores!!!  Where the only consistency is the inconsistent. At times we look like we are "getting there" only to find the oasis was a mirage. We have been wandering around in the desert for years now - never actually drawing a line in the sand and making some progress. Even last years return to finals was by success by default considering Hawthorn's horrible form and we only won 10 games. 

I continue to believe that our biggest problem is not Knights or coaching staff but rather years of poor recruiting. We have more unskilled, unathletic, marginal players than most other sides. We have players that at times can do the magnificent, but mostly just struggle to do the ordinary. 

Our last premiership was a decade ago. It is a sad reflection that arguably our best player (or first picked) is still playing from that side. I think Essendon supporters would justifiably be more than slightly peeved when reflecting on how the list has been managed (or mismanaged) over the past 10 years. 

How much does a coach have a say in that? Who knows - only Sheeds, Knights and those around the club I guess? 

Duckman


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## Duckman#72 (5 July 2010)

Putty7 said:


> one of the things I saw on the highlights was the messing around in the backline again, frustrating to say the least, are the players that bad at decision making or are the structures just wrong again and not being modified effectively as the game progresses to counter opposition tactics, anyway think you are right they need a shake up, playing 3 or 4 good games a year doesn't cut it at top level.




I agree Putty but we need to treat the problem and not the symptoms. I'll give you some examples:

Problem: "We are messing around with it in the backline/midfield" 
Reason: There is no confidence in moving the ball forward. The targets up the ground on Saturday night were non-existent (even if they could hit them). So you get ring-a-ring-a-rosie, ahtishu, ahtishu, we all fall down. Leaving........another Adelaide goal.

Problem: "Backline looked hopeless and out of position".
Reason: The domination of the midfield for Adelaide. They brought the ball in laces out at will. The pressure wasn't nearly good enough to help the backline.

Duckman


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## Putty7 (6 July 2010)

Frustrating to say the least Duckman and agree. I think the coaches have a fair say in the recruitment process, would Sheeds have let Barlow slip through his fingers to end up with Harvs (don't tell me those old essendon boys dont keep in touch, I think it was Matty Lloyds old man who gave him the big wrap to Harvs when he was over looked lol), who knows but we have progressed nowhere under Knights, from week to week we have no idea if they are turning up to play or not, reminds me of Richmond during Knights days lol anyway lets hope things improve and if not lets hope the axe falls on the right heads at the end of the season.


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## GumbyLearner (6 July 2010)

Putty7 said:


> Frustrating to say the least Duckman and agree. I think the coaches have a fair say in the recruitment process, would Sheeds have let Barlow slip through his fingers to end up with Harvs (don't tell me those old essendon boys dont keep in touch, I think it was Matty Lloyds old man who gave him the big wrap to Harvs when he was over looked lol), who knows but we have progressed nowhere under Knights, from week to week we have no idea if they are turning up to play or not, reminds me of Richmond during Knights days lol anyway lets hope things improve and if not lets hope the axe falls on the right heads at the end of the season.




Essendon have had some brilliant selections of players in the past. There are 16 flags to attest to that. But Sheeds did overlook Podsiadly. He has played one bad game this year. A total gun in Supercoach league. Only topped by Barlow. Freo have some damn good recruiters and mold breaking ones at that. Who needs to select high schoolers anymore? Just check out the list of mature-age rookies. It's a sight to see.

And who's going to tank this season when the Gold Coast get 9 out of the first 16 picks next season anyway?


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## Putty7 (6 July 2010)

GumbyLearner said:


> Essendon have had some brilliant selections of players in the past. There are 16 flags to attest to that. But Sheeds did overlook Podsiadly. He has played one bad game this year. A total gun in Supercoach league. Only topped by Barlow. Freo have some damn good recruiters and mold breaking ones at that. Who needs to select high schoolers anymore? Just check out the list of mature-age rookies. It's a sight to see.
> 
> And who's going to tank this season when the Gold Coast get 9 out of the first 16 picks next season anyway?




Gday Gumby, yes Freo have done well and Harvs learnt from one of the best, as did Bomber thompson and Damien Hardwick, both spent years playing under Sheeds, would love to see Hird throw his hat in the ring if the job comes up. Hopefully Sheeds wont be poaching his old club as there is little there to poach at the moment. As for the draft I can see your point, what is there going to be left after the cream is taken from the top.


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## GumbyLearner (6 July 2010)

Putty7 said:


> Gday Gumby, yes Freo have done well and Harvs learnt from one of the best, as did Bomber thompson and Damien Hardwick, both spent years playing under Sheeds, would love to see Hird throw his hat in the ring if the job comes up. Hopefully Sheeds wont be poaching his old club as there is little there to poach at the moment. As for the draft I can see your point, what is there going to be left after the cream is taken from the top.




Love that post. Especially the part where Podsiadly was on your list. But Sheeds didn't like him.


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## Duckman#72 (6 July 2010)

GumbyLearner said:


> Freo have some damn good recruiters and mold breaking ones at that. Who needs to select high schoolers anymore? Just check out the list of mature-age rookies. It's a sight to see.




Let's not get carried away Gumby. For years Freo's recruiting has been the joke of the competition. They gave away players that they shouldn't have and recycled players that should've left alone.

Croad, Solomon, Johnson, Waterhouse and even McPhee are just some names that were questionable acquisitions.

As for players they could have had - Matthew Lloyd might have been a good full forward. 

I'm not going to let you get away with the comment "Freo have got some damn good recruiters" on the basis of one player (Barlow). But I am willing to admit that they are getting their act together - with pickups like Silvagni, Roberton etc. 

I am also willing to admit that Barlow would have been excellent in a Bombers jumper - but there is no doubt Freo was a better fit for him. He wouldn't have been the player we know him to be if he joined the Bombers.

Duckman


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## nomore4s (6 July 2010)

Every club has recruiting mistakes and also "lucky" recruiting as well.

A lot of clubs overlooked Pods & Barlow. Barlow actually trained with St Kilda before the Saints took Eljay Connors instead, so I wouldn't be giving Sheeds **** about not taking Pods.

It comes down to luck in the end, Hawthorn could have taken Jack Riewoldt but instead took Mitch Thorp who was one of the biggest duds to play AFL even though he had huge raps on him, imagine a forward line with Buddy, Roughead & Jack - hell Roughie would probably be playing in the back line.

Plenty of top players come from outside the top 20, it is normally only the top 2 or 3 picks that are real standouts and then it is luck of the draw really.


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## Duckman#72 (6 July 2010)

nomore4s said:


> Every club has recruiting mistakes and also "lucky" recruiting as well.
> 
> Plenty of top players come from outside the top 20, it is normally only the top 2 or 3 picks that are real standouts and then it is luck of the draw really.




Exactly.

Every club has their hard luck stories. Obviously the ones you hear about more are the ones historically involving poor performing clubs (Richmond and Freo primarily).

Every other team could have grabbed a bloke called James Hird who went Pick 79 in the 1990 draft. 

On the other hand Essendon picked up Mark Bolton with pick number 4 in 1997. Players picked after Bolton included Simon Black, Luke Power, Chad Cornes, Shane O'Bree, Adam Goodes, Matthew Scarlett and Chris Tarrant. Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing!!! 

Duckman


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## Putty7 (7 July 2010)

Would it be a fair call to say we are trying to play a fast and skilled midfield style game with a slow and under skilled midfield Duckman.


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## Duckman#72 (7 July 2010)

Putty7 said:


> Would it be a fair call to say we are trying to play a fast and skilled midfield style game with a slow and under skilled midfield Duckman.




I think that's a very fair call Putty.

I have often spoken about the need for workhorses and thoroughbreds within a team environment. 

At present Stanton, Prismall, Watson, McVeigh, Lonergan, Myers and Hocking can all be put into the "workhorse" category. Having said that, only Hocking and Watson consistently work hard particularly in contested possession. The common element with all these players is lack of speed. 

Unfortunately we have the worst of both world - slow and unskilled. We have "workhorses" that I don't believe are working hard enough, nor are they skilled enough to damage opponents when they get the ball.

Now let's look at our "thoroughbreds". We have players Jetta, Dyson, Winderlich and Davey. These players disappear out of games for large stretches at a time, they rarely impose themselves on the game and wouldn't scare many opposition coaches.    

Of all the players I've mentioned on this page - none of them is a class act. Watson is a valiant trier but he's not in the upper elite of the competition just yet.

The jury is still out on Melksham. We need to give him time to develop. It's not fair to criticise him in his first season. 

To be fair to Knights - what game plan is a good game plan for a team that is slow and underskilled?  May as well pretend that you have a good team and hope no one notices any different. 

Duckman


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## Lachlan6 (7 July 2010)

I thought it could not get worse but obviously I was mistaken. Neagle gets a recall after kicking an absolute bag of three goals in the vfl! Surely this 
must must mean the demotion of gumby to bendigo. I gave up on neagle last year. After laycock (and Williams) I consider him the laziest player at the club. This will just not cut it at this grade!! 

On melksham, I have been most impressed this year and he has shown all the right attributes to signal a savvy draft choice by essendon.


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## nomore4s (7 July 2010)

Ouch, nice review for Essendon:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/who-will-finish-last/story-e6frf9if-1225888774239


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## Putty7 (7 July 2010)

nomore4s said:


> Ouch, nice review for Essendon:
> 
> http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/who-will-finish-last/story-e6frf9if-1225888774239




Harsh but fair I would reckon 4's lol


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## nulla nulla (12 July 2010)

Lachlan6 said:


> I thought it could not get worse but obviously I was mistaken.




I think it just got worse. The mighty Demons turned on a brilliant 4 quarters of football to dominate and vanquish a lack lustre Essendon. 
How sweet it is.

Go Melbourne!!!!


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## Tink (12 July 2010)

nulla nulla said:


> I think it just got worse. The mighty Demons turned on a brilliant 4 quarters of football to dominate and vanquish a lack lustre Essendon.
> How sweet it is.
> 
> Go Melbourne!!!!


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## Duckman#72 (12 July 2010)

nulla nulla said:


> The mighty Demons turned on a brilliant 4 quarters of football to dominate and vanquish a lack lustre Essendon.
> How sweet it is.
> 
> Go Melbourne!!!!




Between Collingwood, Carlton, Melbourne and Richmond - Essendon is arguable the last of the "VFL heavyweights" not to have won a spoon for a very long time. It might be our year!!! 

Typical of our luck at present - the year there is no reward with a No 1 draft pick we'll win the spoon. 

There is nothing much to add. It's all been said before - looked slow, unskilled, poor game plan and execution, undisciplined and questionable fitness and commitment levels. 

Duckman


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## gav (12 July 2010)

I feel for you Duckman.  But I think my team will have the spoon this year.  This weekends game will be interesting...


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## Putty7 (12 July 2010)

gav said:


> I feel for you Duckman.  But I think my team will have the spoon this year.  This weekends game will be interesting...




I don't think it will be interesting to watch Gav lol, agree Duckman, I don't know what to say anymore, I found it hard to pull a positive out of the game, they just weren't there to play. 

At the end of 2010 season the axe needs to be wielded, cut the deadwood and hangers on out and start again.


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## easylikesunday (12 July 2010)

I grew up as a Bomber supporter when I was a kid. Hard not too when the whole family is Bombers.

Nowadays I can't watch em. They have a terrible list IMHO. I reckon they have 11-12 full time senior players, the rest wouldnt be standouts at VFL level.

Look at some of the names in the 1993 side and it was hard not to love em!

Calthorpe, Mercuri, Wanganeen, Misiti, Olarenshaw, Denham, Hird, Long, Fletcher, Somerville, Wallis, Daniher, Watson, Harvey, Salmon, Thompson, O'Donnell, Bewick..

Now that was a football club!

They are probably the least intimidating football side this year, and it shows unfortunately


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## gav (12 July 2010)

Putty7 said:


> I don't think it will be interesting to watch Gav lol,




LOL your right, I should probably go watch the Under 12's instead


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## nomore4s (14 July 2010)

The bombers are certainly copping it in the press atm. If they don't start winning a few games I think Knights could be looking for a new job.

One thing I don't understand is how/why Knights chops & changes the team so much every week. Guys like Reimers, Prismall, Howlett, Melksham, Dempsey are in & out every week and then a player like Houli can't even get a game. Yet guys like McVeigh & Welsh are under-performing every week but still get picked.

Pretty hard to get any sort of roll on when there are 4-5 changes every week and most of them appear to be by choice. Surely it's time for Knights to settle on a line up and give them a chance to get settled?


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## Duckman#72 (14 July 2010)

nomore4s said:


> One thing I don't understand is how/why Knights chops & changes the team so much every week. Guys like Reimers, Prismall, Howlett, Melksham, Dempsey are in & out every week and then a player like Houli can't even get a game. Yet guys like McVeigh & Welsh are under-performing every week but still get picked.
> 
> Pretty hard to get any sort of roll on when there are 4-5 changes every week and most of them appear to be by choice. Surely it's time for Knights to settle on a line up and give them a chance to get settled?




It is a clear result of their lack of depth Nomores. Simple as that. 

But the revolving door is not all Knights fault. To be fair the injuries and suspensions over the course of the year to Hille, Fletcher, Dyson, Hooker, Hurley, Williams, Reimers and Pears has meant a certain number of changes have been necessary.

However you make a good point. Some players like Houli seem to be forgotten. I totally agree with dumping Dempsey - he had a couple of shockers defensively. 

It seems over the past 4 seasons the Bombers have been trying to find the "magic combination" only to be disappointed.   

Duckman


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## Lachlan6 (14 July 2010)

nomore4s said:


> guys like McVeigh & Welsh are under-performing every week but still get picked.QUOTE]
> 
> This is incredibly frustrating to hear. I agree entirely with your assesement of McVeigh. I think he has had an awful season and should retire and do media. But Andrew Welsh has to be one of the most uderrated players at Essendon, if not the most underrated. The reason so many people rubbish him, is because they hardly notice him. Why? Because he is constantly tagging the best midfielders out of the game. Judd, Ablett, Hodge (an excellent example as he was in peak form) have all bore the brunt of a Welsh tag. Even last week was no exception. Mathew Bate hardly touched it with Welshy on him. As soon as Lovett Murray went to Bate, Bate carved it up.
> 
> Please (and this goes to the Essendon supporters) stop rubbishing Andrew Welsh. There are soo many others at the club much more deserved of a baking.


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## Putty7 (15 July 2010)

Dempsey actually looked better as a forward or a roving type than he ever did as a backman.

Agree about Welsh, if you look back to some of the Eagles glory days, Dwayne Lamb hardly missed a game as a tagging type but wasn't well recognised for the role he played.

Agree about Spike, his form this year hasn't been great, it's like he has lost the fighting spirit that made him great to watch when he was fired up and on the angry pills.

Losing Hille, Fletcher, Pears, Monfries and Hooker haven't helped things lately, lack of depth.

I hate to bang on about this but is Mr Shuffles really the greatest full forward we have in the arsenal. It was pretty clear when it happened that Lloyd was pursuaded to retire given that he wouldn't be playing full forward this year, for the life of me when a guy is less than a hundred goals off the 1000 goal mark why would you not say to him, this is it, your last year, make it happen. That decision was Knights, no one else can shoulder the blame for that one, Lloyd (and Lukus) weren't in the grand plan. 

Why Houlli doesn't get a game is beyond me, he can't be that much worse than what we have running around.

Can see why 4's had a chuckle when we picked up Williams.

Paddy Ryder is a good ruckman but he isn't of the ilk of Hille when he is in form, having the two of them in together because of their different styles is a great asset to the bombers strategically, but if one of them is out there isn't much to come in and fill the shoes of either of them, lack of depth. You can't play a first rate midfield style game with second rate ruckmen having to be brought into a side where the midfielders need first hands on the ball to look any good.

There are to many fringe players on the list and not enough starting 18 players, regardless of injuries 4 or 5 changes to the side each week isn't going to help anything or anyone.

While I'm having a sook, I'm sick of someone (usually one of the few who actually played well) coming out after each loss and going on about how we have to do better or the spin of the vision we have. We can see you have to play better (we have eyes) and as for the vision for the future it usually starts with a list worth putting on the field week in, week out.

Sorry to the diehard Dons supporters, just a little frustrated.


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## GumbyLearner (15 July 2010)

Dustin Fletcher is the best Full Back to have ever played imo. I know people will argue Scarlett, Southby, Dench etc... But that is a hole that Essendon will be forced to replace in the next season or two.  Almost unreplaceable.


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## GumbyLearner (15 July 2010)

GumbyLearner said:


> Almost unreplaceable.




I should have said irreplaceable. Excuse my poor grammar.


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## Putty7 (15 July 2010)

GumbyLearner said:


> Dustin Fletcher is the best Full Back to have ever played imo. I know people will argue Scarlett, Southby, Dench etc... But that is a hole that Essendon will be forced to replace in the next season or two.  Almost unreplaceable.




He's been around for a long time now, one of my favourites, quiet and unassuming, does his job week in, week out with little fanfare, not sure how many more years he has left but yes Gumby will be a sorry day when he goes.


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## Lachlan6 (15 July 2010)

GumbyLearner said:


> Dustin Fletcher is the best Full Back to have ever played imo. I know people will argue Scarlett, Southby, Dench etc... But that is a hole that Essendon will be forced to replace in the next season or two.  Almost unreplaceable.



 Absolutely agree about Fletcher. He is in our top three most important players and at his age that is very impressive. I have always wanted to clone him. However one young player most similar to him is Cale Hooker. He has really impressed me, especially this year with some more bulk. His decision making is excellent and he very rarely turns the pill over coming out of defence. This was one of the finest attributes of Fletcher so if we replecate that to some degree it will help us greatly. He does play a little loose in defence but that does enable him to springboard out of the half back line. This did expose him drastically against Franklin however.

The other very impressive defender is Pears. He has had a horror run with injuries this year but once he is right to go again this will boost our backline dramatically.

I certainly don't see the problem as the backline. Remember any backline will look second rate when you are getting smashed in the mid field.


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## BELFORT (15 July 2010)

The supporters are calling for blood! A couple more games like this, were structural issues+ off field division remain I would not be surprised to see us saying adios to Knights! 

We have the best developing spine in the game, but there are specific areas were we are very poor + lack any kind of depth and they are becoming increasingly more apparent!


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## Putty7 (15 July 2010)

Lachlan6 said:


> Absolutely agree about Fletcher. He is in our top three most important players and at his age that is very impressive. I have always wanted to clone him. However one young player most similar to him is Cale Hooker. He has really impressed me, especially this year with some more bulk. His decision making is excellent and he very rarely turns the pill over coming out of defence. This was one of the finest attributes of Fletcher so if we replecate that to some degree it will help us greatly. He does play a little loose in defence but that does enable him to springboard out of the half back line. This did expose him drastically against Franklin however.
> 
> The other very impressive defender is Pears. He has had a horror run with injuries this year but once he is right to go again this will boost our backline dramatically.
> 
> I certainly don't see the problem as the backline. Remember any backline will look second rate when you are getting smashed in the mid field.




The flipside to that is any forward line not getting hit with lace out passes or not knowing where or how the ball is going to come into the forward line is also going to look second rate when you are getting smashed in the midfield.

On a brighter note was good to watch Jack Reiwold kick his 10 goal bag the other week, Tiger fans have had even less to cheer about than us for a loooong time now, good to see Hardwick doing well.

Was also good to see Nick Reiwold back playing footy again.

Agree Lachlan, the backline looks fine, not sure where Hurley will end up, maybe forward and back, some players have the ability to be thrown around as the game progresses to good effect and unsettle the opposition. Pears and Hooker both look solid down back and they are both still young and learning, lets hope Fletcher has a few more years in him to transfer his knowledge to a new generation of backline bombers.


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## Putty7 (18 July 2010)

hmmm, you can hear the crickets chirping in here today, well done to West Coast, they haven't beaten us in Melbourne for a long time regardless of the form of either side, Lecras kicking 12 was good to watch, the rest was pretty ugly to say the least, was going to comment last night but decided against it, wasn't surprised but still wasn't happy, would like to hear your thoughts when you finally simmer down Duckman.


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## Sean K (18 July 2010)

Putty7 said:


> Lecras kicking 12 was good to watch



Amazing game, and yes, great to watch no matter who you support.

Essendon aren't supposed to be going backwards at this stage of the rebuild. Someone is responsible. 

Knights didn't recruit these guys.

If they're quality, he can't coach them.


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## nomore4s (18 July 2010)

kennas said:


> If they're quality, he can't coach them.




I think they aren't quality, the list is very thin imo but I also think that Knights is a dud coach so it ends up compounding the problems. I also think he is very quickly losing the respect of the players, which will only make his job harder.

Essendon should have taken Hardwick while they had the chance


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## Sean K (18 July 2010)

nomore4s said:


> Essendon should have taken Hardwick while they had the chance



Yep. Seems so at the moment.


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## Putty7 (18 July 2010)

So if the list is thin what do we need when cut and fill time is at hand....

A second ruckman worth his salt would be nice, Paddy Ryder does his job ok, but he was also a good position player, both forward and back, so really he could be a third ruckman on the ground without upsetting the balance of the side and when the first or second ruck is out (injured or otherwise) he could step up.

Hille is not getting any younger, while not old enough to be close to retirement for a few years, it takes time to develop a good ruck unless like Collingwood did you go shopping for a current player. So we look down the list at Bellchambers and Laycock, they have had enough time to prove themselves. Bellchambers looked lack lustre yesterday and Laycock just looks lazy whenever he actually gets to play. 

Hille is the first ruck, when he is out like at the present the bombers really struggle, did he make the difference to the 5 we won, no other ruckman we have has imposed himself on the game like Hille. When our mids get first hands they actually look ok even if they do lack pace.

One or preferably two fast midfielders would be nice.

Without going over board this would be a good starting point imho.

I really can't understand why Heath Hocking was left on Lecras for so long, or why for that matter he was in the backline at all, we know he isn't fast but his value is doing the bullock work in the centre like the role smokin Joe used to fill when the Dons were in their prime. 

I think Knights will end up going, unfortunately I also have a feeling we will get a wooden spoon this year which will make the event transpire.


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## Duckman#72 (18 July 2010)

Putty7 said:


> So if the list is thin what do we need when cut and fill time is at hand....
> 
> A second ruckman worth his salt would be nice, Paddy Ryder does his job ok, but he was also a good position player, both forward and back, so really he could be a third ruckman on the ground without upsetting the balance of the side and when the first or second ruck is out (injured or otherwise) he could step up.
> 
> ...




Essendon's predicament has been a long time in the making. About 10 years in fact. Our strength has also been our biggest weakness. We've always had a relative strong core, skilled talented group of players to build a team around. But alas, our recruiters have not been up to the task.  

The Bombers have a heap of players that you might call "top up" players. They might add a missing element to a good side or turn an average side into a good one, but you cannot recruit "top up" players for a decade and expect quality results. 

The last decade is littered with players that never made it. Unfortunately, not only does the turnover mean a failed recruit - it means the club never builds up a list of depth. Players such as Cupido, Reynolds, Johns, Davies, Bolton, Bannister, Richards etc were taking up valuable game time for 40-100games but always failing to ever actually "make it".

Their failures were in part patched over by the performances of players the calibre of Hird, Lucas, Johnson and Lloyd.    

Now 10 years later, we have a group of players that were supposed to "add" to the group, now expected to win Premierships.

Duckman


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## nulla nulla (19 July 2010)

Place   Team        P  W D L 
1 Collingwood      16 12 1 3 1699 1258 135.06 50 
2 Geelong           16 12 0 4 1787 1252 142.73 48 
3 St Kilda           16 12 0 4 1355 1117 121.31 48 
4 Fremantle        16 11 0 5 1644 1383 118.87 44 
5 Bulldogs           16 10 0 6 1575 1180 133.47 40 
6 Sydney            16 9 0 7 1431 1286 111.28 36 
7 Hawthorn         16 9 0 7 1436 1327 108.21 36 
8 Carlton             16 8 0 8 1506 1441 104.51 32 
9 North Melbourne 16 8 0 8 1330 1562 85.15 32 
10 Adelaide          16 7 0 9 1341 1433 93.58 28 
11 Melbourne       16 5 1 10 1274 1434 88.84 22 
12 Essendon        16 5 0 11 1417 1695 83.60 20 
13 Brisbane          16 5 0 11 1317 1614 81.60 20 
14 Port Adelaide   16 5 0 11 1217 1564 77.81 20 
15 Richmond        16 5 0 11 1216 1639 74.19 20 
16 West Coast     16 4 0 12 1318 1678 78.55 16 

Only 4 more rungs to go and the wooden spoon awaits. :


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## gav (19 July 2010)

nulla nulla said:


> Only 4 more rungs to go and the wooden spoon awaits. :




And when you look at the difference in games won and percentage, any of the 5 or 6 bottom teams could be there for the taking!

I'm so pi$$ed off I had to work this weekend, it's not often I get to see my boys play, let alone have a win.  LeCras' performance would have been worth the price of admission alone!

I wonder what the TAB odds are for Knights getting the flick before the end of the season?


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## Putty7 (31 July 2010)

A great win over the Saints, Hille, Monfries and Gumby all looked good and glad to have them back and getting run in again, Gumby might be injured but more to come on that front.

It is a pleasant change to see the young guys who haven't had much time this year getting a run and what a difference it makes, why have Colyer, Houli, Hardingham and Howlett not been getting a run more often, Stanton running out of defense is a winning move by Knights, Hurley played a solid game at centre half back and is looking like he will stay in that role for the time being. Tayte Pears is still to come back in. Fletcher as always played well.

Even Mr Shuffles looked good in the first quarter playing up the ground, Hardingham may well be the key to the forward line next year, another leading target that can take a strong mark under pressure is something that has been lacking since Lloyd left, Hurley did a cameo in this role at the end of last season but his value in the backline may take precedence over any ambitions to play forward.

We have batted on about it for a while but depth is still the big problem, only one game this year won without David Hille says a lot about the ruck stock and their importance to Knights game strategy, you can't play a midfield style game without decent rucks, Paddy Ryder played another beauty last night with Hille back in, the two compliment each other very well. It's a pity we couldn't poach another ruckman from somewhere to bolster the ruck stock, the Collywobblers did it with Jolly and it has payed off in spades for them.

Anyway well done to Knights, he may well pull a rabbit out the hat again before the year is over if he can keep them fit and on the park.


----------



## Duckman#72 (31 July 2010)

Putty7 said:


> A great win over the Saints, Hille, Monfries and Gumby all looked good and glad to have them back and getting run in again, Gumby might be injured but more to come on that front.
> 
> It is a pleasant change to see the young guys who haven't had much time this year getting a run and what a difference it makes, why have Colyer, Houli, Hardingham and Howlett not been getting a run more often, Stanton running out of defense is a winning move by Knights, Hurley played a solid game at centre half back and is looking like he will stay in that role for the time being. Tayte Pears is still to come back in. Fletcher as always played well.
> 
> ...




A good wrap up Putty. Just great to get a good win under the belt. The boys seemed so much more committed this week. The game against West Coast was a low point.

Stanton out of defense was fantastic. Fletcher and Hooker both played very well, Watson was leading by example....but the injection of Howlett, Hardingham, Houli and Colyer really transformed the side. Players like Dyson, Slattery, Welsh and Winderlich should take a note.

Hille and Ryder play well together. God knows what Mr Shuffles was doing playing on the wing at one stage but hats off to him - he did some good team stuff.

Well done Knights - some nice moves last night. 

The frustrating thing for Bomber supporters is how we can beat St Kilda twice, beat the Bulldogs, Hawks and beat Carlton during the season and then lose 2 games to teams like West Coast and Melbourne.

Duckman


----------



## nulla nulla (1 August 2010)

And the pendulum swings, one week beaten by Melbourne then a couple of weeks later, knock off St Kilda.


----------



## Duckman#72 (1 August 2010)

nulla nulla said:


> And the pendulum swings, one week beaten by Melbourne then a couple of weeks later, knock off St Kilda.




Yes - they are hopelessly inconsistent Nulla. 

Duckman


----------



## Sean K (14 August 2010)

Oh dear.

Another few years at the bottom end by the look.


----------



## Duckman#72 (14 August 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> Yes - they are hopelessly inconsistent Nulla.




On a positive note - they are now at least finding some consistency. 

Duckman


----------



## nomore4s (16 August 2010)

No doubt Knights will make another 4 or 5 changes this week, probably bringing the 4 or 5 he dropped last week back in:


----------



## Duckman#72 (16 August 2010)

nomore4s said:


> No doubt Knights will make another 4 or 5 changes this week, probably bringing the 4 or 5 he dropped last week back in:




I think he should have been playing people more consistently as well Nomores BUT.....be fair - Fletcher has a back injury as does Lovatt-Murray, Gumbleton has fractured ribs,  Davey has a broken arm, Houli has a knee injury, Winderlich has a broken hand, Pears has been out after surgery to his pancreas and Zaharakis did his knee against the Pies and will be missing for the rest of the season.

Add to the mix the injuries during the season to Hille, Dyson, Hooker, McVeigh, Welsh, Reimers and Hurley together with reports to Fletcher and the personnel changes have had to be made. 

Nomores - I am in no way suggesting that the side couldn't have been more settled and some of the younger "kids" given a longer go, but to be fair to Knights he has had a lot of these changes forced on him to plug gaps (due to the lack of depth). 

Who are our best 22 anyway? F'd if I know anymore? 

The sad thing is Howlett, Colyer, Melksham, Hardingham have put their hand up to be senior footballers next year in the midfield rotation. I say sad because in a handful of games in one year, they have shown in many cases more guts, ticker and skills than players of up to 5 years like Dyson, Winderlich, Prismall, Myers  and Davey.  Sure players like Houli and Jetta are in and out of the side, but they are not making the selectors pick them.  

Duckman


----------



## nomore4s (30 August 2010)

Surprisingly quiet on this thread considering the events of the last 24 hours or so.

The whole affair has been pretty poorly managed by the Bombers and I think the board has some serious questions to answer.

Got to feel for Knights in a way, has been unlucky with injuries this year but I also don't think he did himself any favours.

In the end Essendon had no choice but to sack Knights not just because of pressure from supporters & sponsors but imagine what would have happened next year if the bombers had lost their first 3 games next year? It would have been an absolute circus again like it has been for the last couple of months and another year would have been wasted.


----------



## trainspotter (30 August 2010)

Ya not wrong nomore4s ... apparently the sacking was not only due to the non performance on the field but I have it on good authority that several of the players were going to put their hands up for the draft or be traded if Knights stayed on. Paddy Ryder was making noises about wanting to come back to the West. More pus to be squeezed out of this boil me thinks.


----------



## Duckman#72 (30 August 2010)

nomore4s said:


> Surprisingly quiet on this thread considering the events of the last 24 hours or so.
> 
> The whole affair has been pretty poorly managed by the Bombers and I think the board has some serious questions to answer.




Just came back from holidays Nomores. 

I think the decision to let Knights go was a good one. And I think the way it was done was done well. I think the things that have been "poorly managed" were 1-3 years ago.

The problem stems from the fall out from sacking Sheedy midseason in 2007. To compound the problem, the 2 year contract extension was unnecessary. Ironically it was done to try and give Knights some "breathing space" to help him be embrace by the club's faithful.

Knights has never enjoyed the "full support" of the Essendon army. He is like the "rebound girlfriend". Yes, there has to be one but it usually never ends well and it doesn't make them a bad person. 

Knights game plan may well have been a beauty, but with a list like the Bombers have it would be years before they had the experience, players and skills to make it work in my opinion. And it was all or nothing. In the end I wanted to see how the Bombers went just flooding back and chipping around the boundary line!!!

I do feel sorry for Knights because of the following:

* He carried the baggage of the Sheedy sacking 
* He took over an aging side where hard decisions had to be made - eg Lloyd and Lucas 
* He paid the price for years of crap recruiting/contract negotiations right back to the late 1990's to 2007.
* He was coaching a side that had possibly the weakest and inexperienced "spine" over the past 30 years (particularly 2010).
* The good players he did have, or players he wanted to develop, were often long term injured eg Gumby and Hille.

None of the above was his direct fault. 

But the following can be seen as under his direction:

* His game style was too one dimensional. No plan B.
* The players skill level and fitness level did not seem to develop over his 3 year reign.
* Although hit by injuries, his selection policies rotations constantly raised eyebrows. 
* After 3 years, Essendon supporters couldn't honestly say we were a better side than the one that Sheedy was given the sack for. No one can actually say that collectively the team has "come on" or "developed". Take players like Dempsey, Dyson and Winderlich. These are guys that have been treading water for some time now. In the side, out of the side, good game , poor game, bad game...repeat cycle.

The bottom line is that if Knights didn't go - there could well have been a large exiting of supporters and corporate sponsors. Sad but $$$$ talk.

Duckman

PS I will also add for what it is worth - rumour has it that Knights got the job over Hardwick primarily because in his plan and vision for the club he believed that the Bombers were a lot closer to playing finals than Hardwick's plan.


----------



## nomore4s (30 August 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> PS I will also add for what it is worth - rumour has it that Knights got the job over Hardwick primarily because in his plan and vision for the club he believed that the Bombers were a lot closer to playing finals than Hardwick's plan.




This is an often overlooked aspect of the whole thing.

If Knights did indeed say the list was good enough to go somewhere with, then the poor recruiting of the last few years of the Sheedy era cannot be used as an excuse imo. Knights chose to work with it instead of clean it out and has probably paid the price. Also things like skill & fitness levels surely have to be the responsibility of the coach? 

I would like to know why (eg were they injured?) players like Stewart Crameri, Jake Carlisle, Marcus Marigliani & even Kyle Hardingham didn't get games earlier in the season? While it is probably a bit early to call, all these guys showed something when given a chance.

Some hard decisions to be made on a few players imo and Knights didn't look willing to make them so it will be interesting to see if a new coach does.


----------



## Duckman#72 (31 August 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> Once again pathetic. My expectations have officially been altered today - we are bottom four without question.
> 
> 2006 isn't as far behind us as we would like to think.
> 
> ...




This is a post I wrote back in 2007 when the side was still under Sheeds control.  If you want to know how far we've gone in 3.5 years take a read. 

Some of the comments below could have been made at any number of games this year:

*My expectations have officially been altered today - we are bottom four without question.

Once again too many passengers, too slow, poor skills, poor decision making, lack of depth.

I watched Collingwood play tonight - with something like 12 players who are 22 and under. At this stage you would have to say they are light years ahead of us.

Our ruck division is almost non-existent with Hille out. Laycock seems to be worse than he was 3 years ago!!!

Ryder is very promising.

Our midfield was absolutely spanked again today.

Bradley appears to be a waste of time.  

It's going to be a another long season.*

Some things just haven't changed - Fletcher still gives his all, Ryder is still "promising", Laycock isn't going to make it and our midfield gets consistently spanked. 

Yes Collingwood is light years ahead of us and yes we are officially bottom four!!!

So sad. 

Duckman


----------



## Duckman#72 (31 August 2010)

nomore4s said:


> This is an often overlooked aspect of the whole thing.
> 
> If Knights did indeed say the list was good enough to go somewhere with, then the poor recruiting of the last few years of the Sheedy era cannot be used as an excuse imo. Knights chose to work with it instead of clean it out and has probably paid the price. Also things like skill & fitness levels surely have to be the responsibility of the coach?
> 
> ...




I agree Nomores. You live by the sword then you die by it. If Knights did indeed get the job based on his accelerated path to finals football then he needs to accept that it hasn't worked. He must be wondering "what if 2009 happened in 2010?"

I think he did try to move some players on. He cleaned out Heffernan, Johnson, Solomon, Lucas, Lloyd etc but he also brought in players like Quinn, Hayden Skipworth and Williams. The wrong people.

Duckman


----------



## nomore4s (14 September 2010)

Any thoughts on who should be appointed the new coach from you loyal supporters?

I personally think James Hird would be a mistake, I'm not sure anyone in this day and age can walk straight into a head coaching roll in the AFL without some sort of experience in an assistants role first - have a look at Vossy and the problems the Lions are having this year, it could take them 5+ years to recover now imo.

I think Chris Scott would be a good option or even Richardson but I'm not sure he'll get a go due to being too closely tied with Knights game plan.

I'm also not sure Williams would be a good option either even though his record is pretty good, Laidley might be worth a go though as the Roos were always competitive under him even though their list wasn't very strong.

Will be interesting to see how it all pans out.


----------



## Sith1s (17 September 2010)

I wonder how much the Bombers would have to throw at Paul Roos to get him to consider coaching??  

I heard him on the local radio saying that everyone has their price and wouldn't rule out coaching again.

Just my


----------



## nomore4s (17 September 2010)

Sith1s said:


> I wonder how much the Bombers would have to throw at Paul Roos to get him to consider coaching??
> 
> I heard him on the local radio saying that everyone has their price and wouldn't rule out coaching again.
> 
> Just my




Do you think there is enough money in the world to get Roos to coach Essendon?:


----------



## prawn_86 (28 September 2010)

No comment from the die hards yet.

Hird announced as Essendon head coach, speculation Bomber Thompson will join as Director of Coaching...


----------



## Duckman#72 (28 September 2010)

prawn_86 said:


> No comment from the die hards yet.
> 
> Hird announced as Essendon head coach, speculation Bomber Thompson will join as Director of Coaching...




Haven't spent much time on ASF due to the craziness of "life" at present. 

But if the rumours are true - I'm happy. Some solid and experienced heads will join Hirdy. Potentially Thompson and Wellman.

Very happy with that coaching mix. (They still need a player cleanout - Dyson, Davey etc)

Duckman


----------



## Sean K (30 September 2010)

I'm happy. I suspect Bomber will join. If not he would have come out with a stronger statement saying he was staying. Unless he's fishing for a intra contract pay rise. Great move for the Dons I reckon.


----------



## Duckman#72 (2 October 2010)

Bombers had their Best and Fairest last night.

I have no problems with Watson picking up his second medal in a row and I can also see how Hocking polled well. He played very well in the first half of the season when the rest of the team struggled and is a much improved player IMO.

But for the life of me I cannot understand how Winderlich is voted our 3rd best player. Can someone that doesn't support Essendon offer an opinion on this? Maybe I'm just too hard on him, but I thought he was lucky to hold his spot for large chunks of last year. 

Maybe it is just a fact of life that when your team comes 3rd last on the ladder, it indictates a lack of players playing consistently well. 

Duckman


----------



## nomore4s (3 October 2010)

prawn_86 said:


> No comment from the die hards yet.
> 
> Hird announced as Essendon head coach, speculation Bomber Thompson will join as Director of Coaching...




Does anyone know if he can actually coach?:

Not sure if picking a guy who has been out of footy for a while and has no coaching experience is a good choice, being a legend of the club and a great player doesn't mean he will actually be a good coach. I also wonder how much his heart will be in it if they have another year like last season, he hasn't been interested in coaching before (ie assistants roles etc) so have to wonder about his passion for it - at least with Voss, Buckley they signaled their intentions to coach early on.

Will be interesting to see if he tries to build a  team or just goes all out for glory like Voss did.


----------



## Duckman#72 (4 October 2010)

nomore4s said:


> Does anyone know if he can actually coach?:



I can't think of anything that James Hird has done that hasn't been a class act. We'll see, but if his other experiences in life are anything to go by he'll be the goods.



nomore4s said:


> Not sure if picking a guy who has been out of footy for a while and has no coaching experience is a good choice, being a legend of the club and a great player doesn't mean he will actually be a good coach. I also wonder how much his heart will be in it if they have another year like last season, he hasn't been interested in coaching before (ie assistants roles etc) so have to wonder about his passion for it - at least with Voss, Buckley they signaled their intentions to coach early on.




Anybody that has seen the press conference since James has taken the reins would rest assured that he has the passion and desire to coach Essendon. He gave a wonderful speech at the B&F about whether Essendon was truely a great football club and what it needs to do to get there. Very passionate and uniting.  



nomore4s said:


> Will be interesting to see if he tries to build a  team or just goes all out for glory like Voss did.




His media releases give a few clues. I don't think he'll be a huge one for trading as he is realistic about where the Bombers are at. It is completely different to Vossy. Voss still had quality, proven players like Black, Power, Brown, Merritt, and Rich to base his team around. Hirdy has already come out and said that he is taking over the Bombers with them being close to "rock bottom".  

He has indicated that ball skills, hardness at the football and overall fitness will be his priority. Now I know that those three things would be high on the agenda of all 16 coaches in the AFL - however, as an Essendon supporter I would suggest those are three key areas that we are WELL BELOW the standard required of a quality AFL team. I'm happy for him to target that.

Duckman


----------



## Sean K (4 October 2010)

There is a greater need to have served an apprenticeship these days compared to just a few years ago. Not long ago we had Captain Coaches. I thought Watson could have done it, so I reserve my believe that Hird can. Needs Bomber there too I think. And a few good players!


----------



## Sean K (7 October 2010)

Hird must have had an issue with O'Donnell. I thought he was a pretty well respected Assistant, and has Essendon in the veins....Unusual.


----------



## Logique (8 October 2010)

Huge wrap for Hird as player and leader, but let's face it, he's on trainer wheels as a coach.

It's an artificial coaching structure, with potential to cause a lot of bitterness and division down the track, along with Hird's potential estrangement from the club as with Bartlett at Richmond.

James Hird might be more value to the club as an Eddie McGuire style 'el supremo' managerial and public relations man.


----------



## Duckman#72 (11 October 2010)

Logique said:


> It's an artificial coaching structure, with potential to cause a lot of bitterness and division down the track, along with Hird's potential estrangement from the club as with Bartlett at Richmond.




A little over the top Logique? While anything is possible I think comparisons with Bartlett's fiasco is a long way off.  James is surrounding himself with a  very capable team. Richmond's coaching history is a million miles away from the Bombers.



Logique said:


> James Hird might be more value to the club as an Eddie McGuire style 'el supremo' managerial and public relations man.




I know James is untried, but again, it's a huge stretch Logique to compare one of the games greats to a journalist, football administrator and media spin mogul. Everything James has achieved has been setup by what he's done on the field - everything Eddie has achieved has been off the field. 

I admire Eddie. I think he's been a wonderful advocate for the Collingwood football club and the AFL (when it also benefitted Collingwood) but I don't think Jimmy is another Eddie.

Good to see a couple of changes in the trade. Firstly we've delisted Laycock - good. Also good to see that we haven't traded Houli. If Richmond want to make sure of him they'll have to use a draft pick to get him. Potentially to the benefit of the Bombers.

On final thing - it gives me the @@@@'s when players throw a dummy spit going into the draft. It has happened 2 years in a row now - both players wanting to get to Collingwood. Last year Ball refused to talk to opposition clubs and this year Tarrant said "Collingwood or I retire". I'm not sure a way around it but they are treating the draft as a joke.

Duckman


----------



## Duckman#72 (30 October 2010)

Hi All

Well the 2011 season draw is out. If we thought the 2010 draw was difficult - the 2011 is possibly worse! 

Mark Robinson has unofficially given the Bombers the worst draw again. 

Good luck James.

Duckman


----------



## Knobby22 (30 October 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> Hi All
> 
> Well the 2011 season draw is out. If we thought the 2010 draw was difficult - the 2011 is possibly worse!
> 
> ...




Yes, last game in the season is a bye. Collingwood seem to have done well though, typical.


----------



## Duckman#72 (9 November 2010)

Duckman#72 said:


> Bombers supporters thought 2006 was bad!!! Look out 2010!!!
> 
> With the slim chance of finals now fully evaporated, the Bombers can start making some serious changes.
> 
> ...




Breaking News

Mr Shuffles has "almost" left the building!!! Hird's done a cleanout and Neagle and Atkinson are joining Houli off our list (although they have offered a rookie spot to Neagle if he improves his conditioning). The imposing duo of Neagle and Gumbleton will never be able to dominate future AFL backlines 

Listed above was my 2010 mid year assessment - and I'm pleased to say they've addressed a few issues and some issues have been taken out of their hands.

With Hird as coach one assumes there will be a "change of direction" with regard to the Game Plan.  One that suits the players we've got.

My big complaint last year was that we were "going nowhere" from a team/player development viewpoint. The same old players (of the past 3 years) were being rotated in and out of the side. At the end of last year we saw a real injection of some new exciting players. 

I'd be looking at delisting Dyson. I don't think he'd make the squad of another AFL side. 

Duckman


----------



## Duckman#72 (20 February 2011)

Nice start to 2011. Well done Hirdy. 

Easy to see that some of the boys have spent the off season at weight training.

Duckman


----------



## Sean K (21 February 2011)

Duckman#72 said:


> Nice start to 2011. Well done Hirdy.
> 
> Easy to see that some of the boys have spent the off season at weight training.
> 
> Duckman



Yeah, was solid.

Good to see them come back against St Kilda. They could have just rolled over but showed some heart.

You're right a couple of the kids look stronger. 

Can't be any worse than last year though.


----------



## Sean K (24 February 2011)

Looking OK so far tonight.  

Crameri looks a very good rookie.

Heppel a starter at this stage.

A few putting up their hand to put pressure on the average players to perform, or be gone. Haven't had that for a while.


----------



## Duckman#72 (5 March 2011)

kennas said:


> Looking OK so far tonight.
> 
> Crameri looks a very good rookie.
> 
> ...




Their defensive efforts have been fantastic.

How good has Jetta looked this pre-season???  I'll be the first to admit that in the past I have questioned his ability to handle the AFL stage, but by the looks of things he now "GETS IT".

Bellchambers played well last night. 

Hibberd looks a good pickup for the backline.

Not getting carried away - but considering the past 3 years results it is very, very encouraging.


----------



## Sean K (5 March 2011)

Duckman#72 said:


> Their defensive efforts have been fantastic.
> 
> How good has Jetta looked this pre-season???  I'll be the first to admit that in the past I have questioned his ability to handle the AFL stage, but by the looks of things he now "GETS IT".
> 
> ...



Yes, still best to be conservative at this early stage.

Myers looks to have stepped up.

Jetta and Davey running around together will be entertaining. 

Bellchambers as second ruck to Hille with Ryder somewhere else..??

Crameri should be brought off the rookie list somehow. 

Hurley really needs to start doing ... something..

Put Lloyd in a forward pocket and Hird on a back flank and the team's looking OK.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (5 March 2011)

Excuse me, but is Essendon on the way in to the city in Melbourne, or Sydney?

gg


----------



## Sean K (5 March 2011)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Excuse me, but is Essendon on the way in to the city in Melbourne, or Sydney?
> 
> gg



Both. 

Sydney's just a little further up the road.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (5 March 2011)

kennas said:


> Both.
> 
> Sydney's just a little further up the road.




Retort of the year mate, I bow down before thee and Essendon.

gg


----------



## Sean K (11 March 2011)

Why is Monfries playing on guys 1 foot taller!!! aaaarggghhh!!


----------



## Duckman#72 (12 March 2011)

Not a bad effort.  Same problems have carried over from last year (albeit on a smaller scale). Forward line still looks dysfunctional at times (Monfries sometimes appears as the primary target. Williams disappears from the game in big chunks.  Hurley and Crameri at least provide stong targets). The midfield was outclassed last night, but that is no disgrace against Collingwood at present. The backline was out-muscled and looks like it will struggle against twin tower structures like Dawes and Cloke.  

Was Lovett-Murray injured? Think he will be an inclusion for Round 1.

Hille showed some good signs around the ground.

How fortunate that Anthony Long has a bad hamstring  That means we can place him on the long-term injury list and upgrade Crameri from the rookie list before Rd1.

Once again the endeavour, tackling and pressure was the most pleasing aspect from last night. Much better improvement on 2009 and 2010.

Duckman


----------



## Duckman#72 (24 March 2011)

You little beauty - the footy is back. :bananasmi

It is that wonderful time of the season when our hope and dreams of finals football are still alive and well.

Good luck James.

Duckman


----------



## Sean K (25 March 2011)

Duckman#72 said:


> You little beauty - the footy is back. :bananasmi
> 
> It is that wonderful time of the season when our hope and dreams of finals football are still alive and well.
> 
> ...



I just hope we're competitive and some of the young guys grow a few inches.

The only way is up.

A couple of the newbies will be great but I don't see much improvement in the middle to upper ranks.

Hurley needs to do a Jack R.
Pears needs to be fit.
Watson has earnt his spot.
All those middle runners need to earn their pay or get booted!


----------



## Sean K (25 March 2011)

Just goes to prove he was no Essendon man.

Sook.

*I was poorly treated: Knights*
March 25, 2011

SACKED Essendon coach Matthew Knights intends to dish up the dirt on his former club, saying he has kept documents from his final months at the Bombers that will show he was poorly treated.

Knights, who suggested he had not given up on his coaching dream, said it was not yet the time to air the ''gory details'' of the circumstances surrounding his departure from Windy Hill and replacement with club champion James Hird.

''There will be a time down the track when I will be more than happy to go into all the details,'' he said. ''I kept a lot of documentation over those last three months and I plan to be very transparent and honest.''


----------



## nomore4s (26 March 2011)

kennas said:


> Just goes to prove he was no Essendon man.
> 
> Sook.
> 
> ...




lol I saw that article yesterday and was going to comment on it here but got side tracked. If he wanted to coach again he can kiss that goodbye now as no club will want a bar of him.

What about that game last night, how hard was it to watch, St Kilda sure know how to wreck a game of football - glad they lost. I don't understand how they think scoring 40-50 points a game is going to win you many games of footy, all it does is keep the other side in the contest and a few lucky goals wins it for either side.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (26 March 2011)

From my files on the football club.

A memorable game.







For more pictures and information on the World Game in Essendon.

http://www.essendonunitedfc.com.au/gallery.html

gg


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## Duckman#72 (26 March 2011)

nomore4s said:


> What about that game last night, how hard was it to watch, St Kilda sure know how to wreck a game of football - glad they lost. I don't understand how they think scoring 40-50 points a game is going to win you many games of footy, all it does is keep the other side in the contest and a few lucky goals wins it for either side.




I agree - they are painful to watch. They play lockdown even better than the Swans ever did! They have only themselves to blame. They get three goals ahead and they try and batten down the hatches for almost 2 quarters!! They got everything they deserved!!

As for the Bombers - they are not without a chance tomorrow. I like that Dyson is not in. Good on Bellchambers for getting a start - had a good pre-season. I thought Hibberd might have also got a run. If the backline doesn't perform he should slot right in. For the first time in a long time there is actually pressure for spots.

Duckman


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## Sean K (27 March 2011)

Difficult not to be impressed. Even for an objective Bomber.

So much of sporting success is a mindset I think this should not be taken as a long term sign. Rocket's comment of being a top 4 team is crazy after one game.

Win the next contest boys.


----------



## nomore4s (28 March 2011)

They looked good, dammit, lol

I'd be surprised if they don't beat or at the very least push St Kilda all the way next week considering Essendon's current record.


----------



## Duckman#72 (29 March 2011)

nomore4s said:


> They looked good, dammit, lol
> 
> I'd be surprised if they don't beat or at the very least push St Kilda all the way next week considering Essendon's current record.




The question is - how good are they when they go in favourites?

Duckman


----------



## Sean K (30 March 2011)

Duckman#72 said:


> The question is - how good are they when they go in favourites?
> 
> Duckman



They'll be very competitive until the 'Hird Factor' wears off.

I think that the best team is only as good as their bottom 6 players.

Maybe that's not true, but Essendon's bottom and middle six need to stand up. 

Too reliant on just a few. 

The most experienced middle group need to step up, or we'll just be average.


----------



## Sean K (18 April 2011)

Just watched the replay and I have to say, we deserved to wine _and_ the umpires cost us. 3-4 absolutely crucial decisions against us at stages of the game. Nothing the other way. I have never said that before. 

Looks like the start of a era though.

Once we have Pears back, and those injuries sorted, we have great depth. 

Hurley could be a Duck. Probably the next captain. 

Heppel is unbelievable for an 18 year old in his first few games. 

It really looks very positive over the next 3-5 years.


----------



## Sean K (20 April 2011)

Can anyone tell me what Monfries is supposed to be?

Is he a large crumbing forward, or is he a small lead and mark? Or a hybrid? He seems to be in that really awkward range of not having the tank or speed to be an on baller, but not the hight for a set forward. 

I think he only gets a kick because he gets the worst back man...


----------



## GumbyLearner (20 April 2011)

Can anyone tell me when Hibberd will get a run in the firsts?


----------



## nomore4s (20 April 2011)

GumbyLearner said:


> Can anyone tell me when Hibberd will get a run in the firsts?




Soon I hope


----------



## Sean K (2 May 2011)

Have the last few weeks been a dream?

How can a team go from zero to champions?

For anyone wanting to be a coach this is a classic example.

Is motivation more important that skill?


----------



## Duckman#72 (5 May 2011)

kennas said:


> Have the last few weeks been a dream?
> 
> How can a team go from zero to champions?
> 
> ...




I was down in Melbourne for the Anzac game and also the game against the Suns.

Yes the boys are travelling nicely.

Hibberd played well last week and Heppell is going to be an absolute star. His composure and decision making on Anzac Day was exceptional. I was with a mate of mine and called for the sub on Monfries in the first quarter. When he is really needed he too often offers nothing.

Duckman


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## Sean K (5 May 2011)

Duckman#72 said:


> I was down in Melbourne for the Anzac game and also the game against the Suns.
> 
> Yes the boys are travelling nicely.
> 
> ...



I was at the G too. Good performance. Collingwood didn't play poorly I thought, they were made to play ordinary and Essendon had a few passengers. 

Monfries either has to be let go or moved to the back line. He plays like a lead-mark forward but he's too small. He's not a natural crummer and too slow. Maybe back pocket? He must be spewing Crameri has popped up...


----------



## Duckman#72 (9 May 2011)

kennas said:


> I was at the G too. Good performance. Collingwood didn't play poorly I thought, they were made to play ordinary and Essendon had a few passengers.




I thought so as well. The result showed that Essendon aren't as bad as some might have thought, and Collingwood aren't as good as some might think.

It bugs me the way all the commentators refer to the "Collingwood Press" as some radical new trend in football.  Haven't they just tweaked the game plan of the Brisbane Lions in 2002-4 and Geelong in 2007-09? Like those teams they have an absolutely brilliant midfield, more than competent rucks, an attacking, dangerous and flexible forward line and a stingy, serviceable backline. Add to this Collingwood is also blessed with depth as was Brisbane and Geelong.The final piece of the puzzle is "teamwork and having a solid game plan and sticking to it". 

Sometimes I think the football community looks too deeply into things. Collingwood are a good side playing well - but they are no more pioneers who have forever changed the way AFL is played, than Geelong and Brisbane before them.  

As for the Bombers game against West Coast - Essendon isn't the only team that have improved. They did what they needed to do. Good quality game. 

The midfield have been our big improvers. We now have quality disposals coming into the forward line. Stanton, Prismall, Dyson being the main offenders from prior years. Hocking, Watson and Winderlich have all improved.

Duckman


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## Sean K (12 May 2011)

3 weeks for a tackle?



This is the Dons Thread but I am happy to share the absolute distaste I have for the punishment of 3 weeks for a hard tackle.

It's unbelievable.

It's turning into basketball, but you can kick it.


----------



## prawn_86 (12 May 2011)

Im disgusted to Kennas and it was one of my fav players who was on the receiving end.

There is absolutely nothing Trengove could have done to reduce the impact. They are trained to pin the arm in a tackle and as soon as he started to fall backwards then inertia took them both to the ground. I dont mind penalising a blatant slinging takcle, but in this case you can see that Trengove didnt actually extend his arms to sling Dangerfield.

It seems now even if you accidentally injure somones head your out for a few games. Whatever happened to incidental contact/spirit of the game?


----------



## Sean K (12 May 2011)

prawn_86 said:


> Im disgusted to Kennas and it was one of my fav players who was on the receiving end.
> 
> There is absolutely nothing Trengove could have done to reduce the impact. They are trained to pin the arm in a tackle and as soon as he started to fall backwards then inertia took them both to the ground. I dont mind penalising a blatant slinging takcle, but in this case you can see that Trengove didnt actually extend his arms to sling Dangerfield.
> 
> It seems now even if you accidentally injure somones head your out for a few games. Whatever happened to incidental contact/spirit of the game?



When I was playing I smashed a guy behind play because he was tagging me too tight and I got 1 week. 1 week for practically a king hit. 

We're heading too far down to the edge of a very slippery slope I feel. 

Or, we may be over the edge already.


----------



## prawn_86 (13 May 2011)

kennas said:


> When I was playing I smashed a guy behind play because he was tagging me too tight and I got 1 week. 1 week for practically a king hit.
> 
> We're heading too far down to the edge of a very slippery slope I feel.
> 
> Or, we may be over the edge already.




I never played at the elite level but i have been on the giving and recieving end of plenty of those tackles. Get up seeing stars, shake it off and get back on with it. Its unfortunate Dangerfield got concussed but thats the risks of the game. (Although it appears the AFL doesnt want ANY concussions EVER)


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## nomore4s (16 May 2011)

kennas said:


> When I was playing I smashed a guy behind play because he was tagging me too tight and I got 1 week. 1 week for practically a king hit.
> 
> We're heading too far down to the edge of a very slippery slope I feel.
> 
> Or, we may be over the edge already.




The joke is that you can smash someone behind play with an elbow and get the less then laying a tackle where someone accidentally gets hurt.


----------



## Duckman#72 (16 May 2011)

prawn_86 said:


> There is absolutely nothing Trengove could have done to reduce the impact. They are trained to pin the arm in a tackle and as soon as he started to fall backwards then inertia took them both to the ground. I dont mind penalising a blatant slinging takcle, but in this case you can see that Trengove didnt actually extend his arms to sling Dangerfield.
> 
> It seems now even if you accidentally injure somones head your out for a few games. Whatever happened to incidental contact/spirit of the game?




I know I'm on my own here, but I think the AFL got it basically right.  I say basically because it should have been one week increased to two on appeal, rather than two weeks increased to three on appeal. I think it was more than a "good, strong, solid tackle" - in my opinion it was dangerous and/or reckless. If you swing someone to the ground, with their arms pinned you have a responsibility to the player you are tackling to ensure his head is not going to make contact with the ground with undue force. 

As for the Bombers - I went and saw them play at the GABBA on Saturday. Considering the Bombers road record and the record in QLD, I'd say Hirdy would take that result. Would obviously have liked to have been more dominant on the scoreboard. The forward line was at times quite dysfunctional. I'm not sure if it was the way the Lions held up the fast breaks but all too often it was a "up and under" to the talls that didn't come off (Ryder was badly out of form) or a quick kick to Monfries on a boundary line pocket.

Duckman


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## Sean K (22 May 2011)

Always disappointing to lose when we probably should have won, but in retrospect it was on the cards.

I'm not blaming fatigue, but some key players out. We've been stretched too far with injuries I think.

Watson
Hurley
Welsh
Dempsey
Winderlick
Pears (long term)
Hocking (susp)

That's a third of our best team out.

Some players well down also.

Stanton needs to get his confidence back. He's doing a Mercuri at the moment.
Ryder hasn't developed any further than round one 2009.
Reimers I just don't know.
Fletch, Myers and Hooker were all down which was critical. Three best back men beaten.
Crameri didn't get the chances he needed. 

Positives?
Heppell is incredible for a first year 18 yr old.
Hibberd kept his spot.
McVeigh, Lonergan and Hardingham were excellent.


Where to next?

Watson and Hurley back will be crucial.
Then Hocking from suspension.
Stanton a run at Bendigo, or put him on the back flank.
Ryder back to CHB where he plays his best footy imo.
Hurley back to CHF, although he does play well back. 
Myers on a Wing.
Reimers and Davey probably have to give way for Watson and Hurley.

Once we have a rest, regroup and get those key players back in should be back to playing at our potential.


----------



## Tink (3 June 2011)

Wooo, Go Dees


----------



## nulla nulla (4 June 2011)

How sweet it is, Go the mighty Demons.


----------



## Sean K (4 June 2011)

D's weren't that good really.

Essendon were crap.

A third of our best team out, and a a third of our best team played without spirit. 

Abysmal effort. 

The Hird Factor has come and gone. 

Can't believe Melbourne celebrated that so proudly.

Or maybe I'm just an ugly (Collingwood like) supporter.


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## Duckman#72 (7 June 2011)

kennas said:


> D's weren't that good really.
> 
> Essendon were crap.
> 
> ...




Yes Kennas - I agree with all of the above. I think the excitement shown by the Dees after the win was just a reflection on the comments surrounding the Carlton game rather than an indication of the quality of the opponent they had just beaten. It is ironic that the team known for its "bruise free" style of football were celebrating a win over another team that is playing even more "bruise free" than them at the moment!! The tackle count and contested possession stats were damning for the Bombers. 

The frustrating thing is the inconsistency. Last year we lost games to Melbourne and West Coast and then beat teams like Hawthorn and St Kilda. Nothing has changed this year. Losses to Richmond and Melbourne were disappointing in that yes, the Tigers and Dees played well - but Essendon were still in both of those games despite playing very, very average, listless, uninspired football. Hirdy needs to insert a couple of well placed rockets in the locker room . 

Essendon have been playing poorly for a few weeks now. Had Brisbane been a better opponent the same result would have happened at the GABBA. The games were almost identical. Very close at half time with big discrepancies in the inside 50's. It is just that Dees did what the Lions couldn't.

In my post on 16th May, I made the comment that our forward line was dysfunctional for the majority of the night. Nothing has changed. The only thing that playing 3 ruckman has done is upset the form of Crameri. Who knows where we are going to get our goals from?

Unfortunately injuries and suspension don't help - Hurley, Watson and Hocking will be big inclusions shortly.

For those of you that have been following this thread for some time, I posted a lengthy comment some time ago last year, asking the question "If Essendon was a glass of water would it be half full or half empty?" After 11 rounds so far it would seem that the answer to the question is still in doubt?

What will the next 11 weeks bring? Anybody prepared to predict a Top 8 finish of the Bombers at this stage of the season? Their fast start to the season is quickly being eroded away.

Duckman


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## nomore4s (10 June 2011)

Hi Duckman,

I think you guys have made progress this year, very quickly too. After the start to the season the Bombers had there was always going to be a period where they struggled for a bit imo, what happens over the next month will be interesting.

I think they are a chance for the top 8 still, especially considering spots 6-12 are still wide open, and I think Essendon are probably a better side then most of those teams.


----------



## Tink (11 June 2011)

Ahh Kennas, we love to celebrate at every win, be an even bigger celebration if we win on Monday : )

Lets hope it turns out a lovely day


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## Duckman#72 (13 June 2011)

nomore4s said:


> Hi Duckman,
> 
> I think you guys have made progress this year, very quickly too. After the start to the season the Bombers had there was always going to be a period where they struggled for a bit imo, what happens over the next month will be interesting.
> 
> I think they are a chance for the top 8 still, especially considering spots 6-12 are still wide open, and I think Essendon are probably a better side then most of those teams.




I hope you are right Nomores.

Very disappointing result again yesterday. The reason Essendon supporters were disappointed with the loss to the Dees last week, hit home today. As Collingwood demonstrated this arvo,  the Dees are still pretty crud. It could be the loss that keeps us out of the finals. Tink and Nulla Nulla will be pleased 

Yes it was annoying to lose to Freo, but going into the season most supporters would not have pencilled that game in for a win anyway. 

Duckman


----------



## Tink (14 June 2011)

Ah well, cant win them all, stupid mistakes. At least I was in with the Melbourne Members


----------



## nomore4s (25 June 2011)




----------



## nomore4s (25 June 2011)

On a serious note though.....

It looks like it is time for a serious clean out at Essendon as the list is obviously not good enough to become a serious contender despite the promising signs early in the season.

McVeigh, Welsh and Davey have to be moved on at the end of the year imo.

Monfries, Prismall, Reimers and Ryder need to have a good hard look at themselves and the coaching staff need to find out if guys like the above are long term prospects of a successful team.

There are enough players there with ability to build around - Watson, Hocking, Zaharakis, Pears, Hooker, Hurley and even Bellchambers with Heppell, Hibbard, Hardingham, Howlett, Jetta, Cameri, Dempsey and Gumbleton all showing promise.

Last night Ryder and Hille were very ordinary, how many times did Hille get out muscled by Lisle? A guy 5cm and 10kgs+ smaller! Hille just did not look interested last night and gave up on the contest way too easy that is just not good enough from a senior player. Ryder needs a spell in the VFL, just even to send him a message that his efforts are just not good enough.

Might be time to bring in Neagle, Gumbleton, Williams, Reimers, Carlisle, Dyson etc etc and give them a extended run at it to see who is worth keeping on the list and who isn't.


----------



## Duckman#72 (25 June 2011)

nomore4s said:


> Might be time to bring in Neagle, Gumbleton, Williams, Reimers, Carlisle, Dyson etc etc and give them a extended run at it to see who is worth keeping on the list and who isn't.




Great Nomores!!!   You know how rub the salt right into the wound!!! Our future hope lies with Neagle, Gumbleton, Dyson and Williams - all players that have frustrated, been disappointing or totally injury prone in the past.

It is always a danger posting after a disappointing loss - but the manner in which some of our players played last night was an absolute disgrace. I fully agree with your position on Hille. At times he was a passenger. Bellchambers is progressing well enough for them to consider offloading Hille and Ryder for some great midfielders. 

I realy don't know what is happening down at Windy Hill - even Dustin Fletcher has been poor based on his high expectations. It was only 2 monhs ago there were artuiles talking about him playing on for another 2 seasons. At times last night I'm not sure that he'll make another 2 months. I'm the last person to criticise Fletch - I love the guy - but even he looks completely "out of sorts".

On the positive Zaha and Jetta are showing signs of continual improvement as valuable midfielders (or maybe our other midfielders have gone backwards that fast that Jetta and Zaha now stand out!)

This should be the last year for Welsh, McVeigh and Davey. I have never seen anybody do as much work for so little reward as Davey last night. It was like watching a Year 7 kid try to steal the ball off the Year 12 School side. Plenty of endeavour but it all resulted in nothing. He looked like a headless chook most of the time running from player to player. 

I was never a big fan of Welsh and was surprised he was made co-captain last year. He seems to play 1 great game every 6. 

Although the Bombers had a great start to the year, we should put the wins in perspective because, with time we can now see the wins over St Kilda and the Bulldogs were perhaps saying as much about the slide of those clubs as the improvement in ours.

Maybe we need a new coach.......

PS - Supercoach teams is going to do it tough this week with two hamstrings in the first game (Rioli and Watson).

Duckman


----------



## nulla nulla (26 June 2011)

Go the mighty Demons. Smacked richmond in the kisser and now sitting in the top 8 above....wait for it....Essendon. How sweet it is.


----------



## IFocus (26 June 2011)

Eagles what a year..........


----------



## Duckman#72 (26 June 2011)

nulla nulla said:


> Go the mighty Demons. Smacked richmond in the kisser and now sitting in the top 8 above....wait for it....Essendon. How sweet it is.




The problem with continued success is that you don't learn to have patience. I really envy you Dees supporters that have learnt to do without. 

I'll just have to watch a re-run of the 2000 Grand Final spanking again and be happy with what we've got. 

On a serious note, Nulla you must be very happy with the way Jack Watts is progressing. Good on him - he's copped a lot of unfair criticism. All the players develop at different stages - look at Daniel Rich, a world beater in his first year and now is really off the boil.

Duckman


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## Tink (26 June 2011)

Woohooo Nulla, Go Dees 
Our teams young but we are getting there.


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## nomore4s (1 July 2011)

Bellchambers is extremely unlucky. Both Ryder & Hille were pathetic last week and while Bellchambers wasn't great he at least provided more of a contest then the other two.


----------



## Duckman#72 (1 July 2011)

nomore4s said:


> Bellchambers is extremely unlucky. Both Ryder & Hille were pathetic last week and while Bellchambers wasn't great he at least provided more of a contest then the other two.




I'm in full agreeance there Nomores. The reason Ryder wasn't dropped was to spare him the embarrasment of not being able to force his way into the Bendigo side.

There are defining moments during a season. Over the past couple of weeks the Bombers have been described as slow, unenthusiastic, uncommitted and weak in the contest. Despite this we haven't really been smashed yet. (The Hawthorn score line actually flattered us - it could have been 100+). I'm prepared to say that this game will define our season. If Hirdy gets the "wall" to hold up this weekend, maybe something of the season can be salvaged. However if it is a bloodbath, look out for a real clean out at Windy Hill at the end of the season.

Geelong aren't saying much but it is well known that the mantra of the Cats this year is to "Prove Gazza and Bomber wrong". They will be out to absolutely thump the Dons. The only positive thing I can think of is.................................nope, sorry..... absolutely no positives. 

Duckman


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## Duckman#72 (2 July 2011)

Duckman#72 said:


> Geelong aren't saying much but it is well known that the mantra of the Cats this year is to "Prove Gazza and Bomber wrong". They will be out to absolutely thump the Dons. The only positive thing I can think of is.................................nope, sorry..... absolutely no positives.
> 
> Duckman




I've thought of something..........we have absolutely nothing to lose. No one expects us to even be able to be competitive, let alone win.

Duckman


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## Duckman#72 (2 July 2011)

Duckman#72 said:


> There are defining moments during a season.  I'm prepared to say that this game will define our season.
> Duckman




What a game!!!!!!!   

One of the games of the season for sure. Great game boys. 

I'm so excited.....I'm not even going to ask the question.."why can't you play with that endeavour every week?"


----------



## Sean K (2 July 2011)

I can't remember a better win, considering....


----------



## nulla nulla (3 July 2011)

Duckman#72 said:


> What a game!!!!!!!
> 
> One of the games of the season for sure. Great game boys.
> 
> I'm so excited.....I'm not even going to ask the question.."why can't you play with that endeavour every week?"






kennas said:


> I can't remember a better win, considering....




Credit where credit is due. Great game and a well deserved win.


----------



## IFocus (20 August 2011)

Nice win by WCE today to move into the top 4 but marred by the injuries to the Bomber players always a big ask to win in WA.


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## Duckman#72 (24 August 2011)

IFocus said:


> Nice win by WCE today to move into the top 4 but marred by the injuries to the Bomber players always a big ask to win in WA.




Yes WC won like a good side. 

Victorian teams always wilt under hot conditions, and considering the sub was introduced in the first quarter it was always going to be tough....but no serious excuses, we were blown away in the second quarter.

Bombers with one eye on Week One of the Finals against the old enemy. (Providing we don't do the unthinkable against Port).  Essendon would fancy themselves against Carlton as they man up fairly ok. Unlike Geelong, West Coast, Collingwood etc Carlton don't have "power forwards". Power forwards alway throw out the structure of the Bombers. 

As for our best and fairest - I can't see how anyone is likely to hold out Heppell. He has had such a consistent year - he rarely plays a bad quarter let alone a bad game!!     

Duckman


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## Sean K (28 August 2011)

Not sure what to think of this afternoon. Don't like players not playing for their integrity.

Only taking up the numbers of the 8 really.... 

I'll be at the G for the first final against Blues. Should have 90K attendance which will be exciting.


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## Sean K (7 September 2011)

Heppell well deserved and probably added a 0 to the end of his salary package. Going to be a 250 game plus player.

I think Darling and Smith might become better though.


----------



## Sean K (8 September 2011)

I played with Dean Wallis. 

He didn't seem that stupid in 1988.


----------



## Sean K (11 September 2011)

Would be some disappointed players tonight. Half the team under-performed, but beaten by a more deserved team, obviously. 

The future improvement has to come from the relatively newbies:
Hurley (step up!!)
Myers (could play anywhere, but hasn't)
Pears (get yourself fit!!!)
Ryder (stop spectating!)
Hooker (could be anything but why was he left out above a few others?)

Do we need these guys:
McVeigh - resign, done your job
Hille - trade
Lovett-Murray - take up boxing
Davey - need to get the ball more than 5 x per game in the AFL
Jetta - trade
Reimers - change of boots helped a bit, but no future here buddy
Howlett - had chances but still just average. 

Well done:
Heppell (couldn't do anything more)
Stanton - great year, keep pushing
Zaharakis (just take one more step)
Hocking - probably our most important player
Fletcher - 36? Take Madden's record
Watson - lose weight again, too heavy
Monfries - better on a wing or half back

Surprises:
Carlisle - could hold down any key position
Hardingham - amazing transformation


----------



## nomore4s (12 September 2011)

kennas said:


> I played with Dean Wallis.
> 
> He didn't seem that stupid in 1988.




Too many hits to the head during his playing days?


----------



## Duckman#72 (12 September 2011)

kennas said:


> Would be some disappointed players tonight. Half the team under-performed, but beaten by a more deserved team, obviously.
> 
> The future improvement has to come from the relatively newbies:
> Hurley (step up!!)
> ...




I agree with most of your assessment Kennas.

Although I wouldn't have put Monfries in the "Well Done" category. Like too many Bombers he is too "hit and miss". I would also add Crameri in the "future improvement". He has been the most likely forward presence we've had sine Lloydy - but still work to do.

Might be time to say thankyou for your services to McVeigh, Dyson and Welsh. McVeigh in particular has competed at a very high level for a very long time. Deserved more success than he has achieved. 

And also the $500K question (isn't that how much we've paid him to be on our list for the past 5 years?) - what about Gumbleton?

Overall a tick for James for his first season, however we were very fortunate to win a number of very close games this year. If a couple of them went the other way we aren't far of last years result. 

Ultimately the same questions remain for Bomber fans at the end of this season as the previous seasons. They are:

1. Why is the team so inconsistent? Which Essendon side is going to play from week to week? 
2. Of all the teams in the competition, I'd argue that the Bombers have one of the biggest gaps between their best and worst. Players like Ryder, Hille and Monfries can be brillant and dominate games, only to become spectators the following week. 
3. Who will rise up to be genuine superstars of the game? For years now our list has best been described as "serviceable", "tryers", and "workmanlike". 
4. Why have we got so many players who have failed to reach the next stage of their development? Players like Monfries, Reimers, Jetta, Davey that haven't stepped up. 
5. What is happening with our forward line? Yes we have Crameri as a focal point, but we also try Hurley on occasion, Ryder sometimes, Hille as well. It looks no closer to being "dangerous" than this time three years ago.  

There have been some good achievements this year - Heppell's year has been outstanding, Hocking has developed to be our most important player(imo), Fletcher continues to lead the backline with distinction and Stanton has progressed this year, however the big problems that James inherited have not been resolved.   

Duckman


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## Sean K (13 September 2011)

Yep, agree on the Monfries call. In the forward line he tries to play like a lead up forward where he should be doing a LeCras or Milne type thing. He's better up the field imo as he's played the last few weeks, but he doesn't seem quick enough. Still, he has kicked plenty of goals.

Crameri was a good find but he's not key position is he? Too short.

That list of players we recruited during our peak recruiting opportunity time have not been as good as hoped I think. We should have got a Murphy, Gibbs, Cotchin, Rockcliff type out of that period, but nada. 

Paddy promises so much but he doesn't look to be turning into a tier 1 player. 

We're really relying on the likes of Hurley and Pears to turn into superstars in key positions front and back I think. Maybe just need some more time.


----------



## Sean K (20 May 2012)

Best start to the year in some time. And not just a good start, they look genuinely good. Having said that probably lucky to escape last night. 

Loving the action from the middle tier of players who have stood up.

Stanton jumps into elite territory. Brownlow material at the moment.


----------



## nomore4s (22 May 2012)

kennas said:


> Best start to the year in some time. And not just a good start, they look genuinely good. Having said that probably lucky to escape last night.
> 
> Loving the action from the middle tier of players who have stood up.
> 
> Stanton jumps into elite territory. Brownlow material at the moment.




Bombers look good atm.

Brownlow will be interesting this year with Kennedy, Stanton, Thompson all a chance after great starts to the year, Deledio also might be a smokey. Good to see new faces in the Brownlow mix.


----------



## Ves (22 May 2012)

I reckon Watson and Stanton will take a heap of votes off each other.

I am happy with how we have started this year and glad that we have gotten ourselves into some tough positions against weaker opposition  (Port, Tigers and Suns games all come to mind).  We haven't rolled over at all this year.  It's a good sign as to the maturity level rising in our playing group.

I don't think we will be tested by another top 4 candidate until about round 16.  It's a long time!  At least we can try to practically sew up a top 8 spot between now and then.  Could go into the bye with a 10-1 record. Soft draw or no soft draw, a good effort IMO if we can achieve that.


----------



## Sean K (25 May 2012)

Ves said:


> I reckon Watson and Stanton will take a heap of votes off each other.



Yes, but Swan won the medal with Pendles in the same team. Although, that was payback for the previous year's debacle, I am sure.

I'm going to the game tomorrow night. Hopefully no late withdrawals due to the General.

Stanton might score 200 SC points if he's not tagged.


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## Sean K (27 May 2012)

Got home from Skoda Stadium about half an hour ago. Took almost 3 hours to get home to Bondi. Train delays, track works, late busses, no taxis. A disaster! Last time I leave the post code to see the footy in this town. 

On top of that my Captain phoned in his performance tonight. Stanton, you weren't even tagged!! Very disappointing.

And, while it's very easy to get good seats at Skoda, too few bars serving mid strength beer pot by pot. For a custom made stadium, crap.

Won't be going back to Skoda any time soon.  

The highlight tonight for me was that the entire team rested while pretending to play. Another rest next week will be good also.


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## prawn_86 (27 May 2012)

kennas said:


> Got home from Skoda Stadium about half an hour ago. Took almost 3 hours to get home to Bondi. Train delays, track works, late busses, no taxis. A disaster! Last time I leave the post code to see the footy in this town.




Yeh Sydney really doesn't have the infrastructure for events anymore. Maybe it did for the Olympics, but it certainly hasn't been maintained or upgraded in the last 12 years despite the population growth.

Dons are looking good this year...


----------



## Ves (27 May 2012)

kennas said:


> On top of that my Captain phoned in his performance tonight. Stanton, you weren't even tagged!! Very disappointing.



I saw Scully following him around on the TV!  Pretty sure Stanton did not want to waste energy in breaking the tag.  Still had 25 possies though.  Can't get 40 every week!


----------



## Sean K (27 May 2012)

Ves said:


> I saw Scully following him around on the TV!  Pretty sure Stanton did not want to waste energy in breaking the tag.  Still had 25 possies though.  Can't get 40 every week!



Yep, still got a few touches. Scully sat on him at each stoppage but then just let him run. Did GWS pay $7m for Scully to tag? Maybe they're trying to teach him how to get the ball. I put $50 on Stanton to win the Dons B&F on Friday so he was sure to have a poor game.


----------



## Ves (27 May 2012)

kennas said:


> Yep, still got a few touches. Scully sat on him at each stoppage but then just let him run. Did GWS pay $7m for Scully to tag? Maybe they're trying to teach him how to get the ball. I put $50 on Stanton to win the Dons B&F on Friday so he was sure to have a poor game.



 I think they're teaching him how to play, putting him on better players so he can learn their running patterns etc.   I think he played pretty well last night from what I saw. Didn't he have 26 possies? He should be pretty good when he and his team mates are more experienced and have bigger bodies.

Hopefully we can have another "rest" next weekend against the Dees like you said.  :


----------



## nulla nulla (3 June 2012)

Go the mighty demons.  to quote Paul Keating: "How sweet it is".


----------



## Ves (3 June 2012)

Disappointed with the loss.  But I think the reality check will help.  Still keeping the faith!


----------



## Sean K (3 June 2012)

nulla nulla said:


> Go the mighty demons.  to quote Paul Keating: "How sweet it is".



Good win, although the opposition left their hearts at home. Crap game all round really.


----------



## nulla nulla (3 June 2012)

To be honest I was stunned when the Demons won. Their first three quarters were woeful, bumbling arround, not talking to each other, not sheparding, not providing leads, contesting marks against each other etc etc. It was just an unco-ordinated mess.  Essendon played woefully as well which enabled the demons to stay in touch then go one better.

A win is a win and the morale lifting for the team and coach should do them wonders going forward for the rest of the season.


----------



## Knobby22 (3 June 2012)

I went to the game.
First quarter was a disaster, the number of easy goals missed.

They basically gave Melboune a sniff and their boys went for it. 
At least it couldn't happen to a nicer side but I worry the opposition coaches will study the game and work out better plans against the Dons.


----------



## nomore4s (4 June 2012)

Shame Essendon shame, no matter what happens for the rest of the season the bombers will always be the first team to lose to Melb this year hahahaha.

Melb wanted it more in the last quarter they were first to the ball with numbers around the contest and certainly more desperate then the bombers, what I want to know is where has that desperation and effort been for the whole year?


----------



## Sean K (16 June 2012)

Another bad loss last week. Didn't deserve to win on the night, but we played so far below potential it's very frustrating. Especially when they turn something on like the last quarter. Talk about getting the yips in front of goal. Cost us two gettable games and perhaps will cost a top 4 slot.


----------



## Ves (18 June 2012)

Hopefully we can learn to travel to Perth this weekend... we have been woeful over there for many years now. Would be a good time to break that hoodoo and get a much needed win on the board. We certainly have the personnel to do it; but do we have the determination and hunger to keep our season on track?


----------



## IFocus (18 June 2012)

Ves said:


> Hopefully we can learn to travel to Perth this weekend... we have been woeful over there for many years now. Would be a good time to break that hoodoo and get a much needed win on the board. We certainly have the personnel to do it; but do we have the determination and hunger to keep our season on track?




Playing Freo in front of the feral crowd at PS is a difficult task plus Melbourne teams just don't travel well to WA Dorkers will get up I think but I'll cheering for the Dons just like every other WCE supporter.


----------



## Sean K (21 June 2012)

Dyson and the Bellcha out are surprises. I thought they had been OK and a few others could have been given the warning.

Hibberd a big IN! IMO. He is in the ilk of a Soloman or Hardwick, in their day. 

I feel bad vibes about this week. Not just because we usually lose badly in WA, I just feel bad vibes. 

This is one we would have pencilled in as a L.


----------



## nomore4s (22 June 2012)

kennas said:


> Dyson and the Bellcha out are surprises. I thought they had been OK and a few others could have been given the warning.
> 
> Hibberd a big IN! IMO. He is in the ilk of a Soloman or Hardwick, in their day.
> 
> ...




It doesn't help you guys haven't won a game in June for about 3 years. WTF is the go with that?


----------



## Ves (22 June 2012)

kennas said:


> Hibberd a big IN! IMO. He is in the ilk of a Soloman or Hardwick, in their day.




I agree - I really rate him.  He gives us some agility across half-back and he seems to have a pretty level head about him.


----------



## IFocus (22 June 2012)

Talking to a couple of Docker fans over here and they are not that confident they rate the Dons you guys might well have a chance.


----------



## Sean K (28 June 2012)

nomore4s said:


> It doesn't help you guys haven't won a game in June for about 3 years. WTF is the go with that?



That was a hoodoo breaker!



Ves said:


> I agree - I really rate him.  He gives us some agility across half-back and he seems to have a pretty level head about him.



Great 1st game back, I expect him to build now he's confident on the leg.



IFocus said:


> Talking to a couple of Docker fans over here and they are not that confident they rate the Dons you guys might well have a chance.



Docker friends of mine were disappointed in the end, but not overly. They did expect the worst.


I've put $50 on Stants for B&F, and $50 on Jobe for Brownlow. 

Both will now do a knee this weekend.

Interesting game really, but our recent good form under the roof should do us very nicely. Would be very nice if Hurley strung multiple goal returns together. Still overrated imo. 

About time Jake C won a Rising Star gong.

Go Jobe and Stants!


----------



## nomore4s (29 June 2012)

kennas said:


> I've put $50 on Stants for B&F, and $50 on Jobe for Brownlow.




Jobe to win both imo


----------



## Ves (29 June 2012)

nomore4s said:


> Jobe to win both imo



Hopefully he plays every game this year - it would be interesting to see how close he can go to winning a Brownlow. We haven't had one for a while down at Windy Hill!!


----------



## IFocus (29 June 2012)

kennas said:


> That was a hoodoo breaker!
> 
> Great 1st game back, I expect him to build now he's confident on the leg.
> 
> ...




Good game great win even better my Docker friends were absolutely rabid about the 2nd quarter umpiring calls in front of goals............warms the heart lol.

Maybe we will meet up in the finals Dons scant on finals experience still its wide open at the moment.


----------



## Sean K (29 June 2012)

IFocus said:


> Maybe we will meet up in the finals Dons scant on finals experience still its wide open at the moment.



I'm an MCC member, tickets for ASF Bomber peeps this way.


----------



## Sean K (29 June 2012)

Ves said:


> Hopefully he plays every game this year - it would be interesting to see how close he can go to winning a Brownlow. We haven't had one for a while down at Windy Hill!!



Only missed BnF last year because of injury.

It's a pretty open year for Brownlow with injuries to Swan and Pendles. SideB and Beams, Thompson and Danger, Jack and Kennedy taking points off each other. Judd average. If Stants stays off the boil, Watson is looking good.


----------



## stewiejp (1 July 2012)

Great win last night lads - Ch7 commentators saying Jobe's "already won" the Brownlow. 
Must stop nat the TAB on the way to work...


----------



## Ves (7 July 2012)

Woeful tonight.  I think our forward line will really be tested over the next few weeks if Hurley and Crameri miss a few.  

We really need to get better at finding ways to score when the opposition "flood" our forward line and get in our face.  Doesn't look too resilient to those tactics at the moment.  Collingwood over the past few years seem to have the best model for playing along the edges and slowly chipping away at the score board with relentless pressure when teams do that.


----------



## nulla nulla (8 July 2012)

Last time I saw a game where one teem totaly dominated and ran riot with the final quarter was when Hawthorn humbled Melbourne in their last grand final.

St Kilda players were relentless, determined and played as a well co-ordinated team. They thoroughly deserved the win.


----------



## Sean K (8 July 2012)

Ves said:


> Woeful tonight.  I think our forward line will really be tested over the next few weeks if Hurley and Crameri miss a few.
> 
> We really need to get better at finding ways to score when the opposition "flood" our forward line and get in our face.  Doesn't look too resilient to those tactics at the moment.  Collingwood over the past few years seem to have the best model for playing along the edges and slowly chipping away at the score board with relentless pressure when teams do that.



Yep, you'd think Tom will be back in and they might try Gumby.



nulla nulla said:


> Last time I saw a game where one teem totaly dominated and ran riot with the final quarter was when Hawthorn humbled Melbourne in their last grand final.
> 
> St Kilda players were relentless, determined and played as a well co-ordinated team. They thoroughly deserved the win.



Good win, but Bombers were poor.


----------



## nomore4s (9 July 2012)

kennas said:


> Good win, but Bombers were poor.




Still not sure I rate the Bombers, especially under pressure. Watson probably needs some help in the middle.

They've lost 3 out of the last 5 now with some big games coming up, in fact besides this weeks game against Port nearly every game is against decent opposition.


----------



## Sean K (12 July 2012)

nomore4s said:


> Watson probably needs some help in the middle.



He did for the first 5 weeks, that was the difference. Those players assisting have dropped off considerably. Hugely.

A significant event for me was the Zaha injury.  Has been a key loss even though he's an outside runner. I think Stants has run wide since then and lost his mojo. 

Weakest team we've had in for a while this weekend.


----------



## Sean K (15 July 2012)

Can't underestimate the win this weekend. I had it penciled in as a L, as the coaches probably had pre-season. I thought we were gone for most of the match. Hibberd gone again is troubling. Running out of cattle. Great that Gumby survived.


----------



## Logique (16 July 2012)

Not getting any easier for you Bomber fans. The Cats away, Hawthorn, the Crows away, North, Carlton, Richmond, and Collingwood. Ouch. 

I'm a Swans supporter, but I think the Bombers have the Brownlow medallist onboard.


----------



## Duckman#72 (16 July 2012)

Logique said:


> Not getting any easier for you Bomber fans. The Cats away, Hawthorn, the Crows away, North, Carlton, Richmond, and Collingwood. Ouch.
> 
> I'm a Swans supporter, but I think the Bombers have the Brownlow medallist onboard.




We have a very tough run home. Unfortunately as Kennas has mentioned, our losses to the Dees and Swans might cost a spot in the Top 4 (would still think we'd make the 8!!). Having said that, we have over-achieved up to this point. 

The exciting aspect of the season has been in particular:
a) The general improvement in decision making, skills and body work of the ENTIRE list, and
b) Watson not being in and out of the side injured

The midfield is developin at a greater pace than I expected and injuries are the only thing that has stopped the forward line starting to work together. Gumbleton, Hurley, Crameri.  I hate to say it but I have more confidence in our forward structure when Monfries is not out there.

Injuries to the Dons have been extensive and shouldn't be understimated when considering how good the years results have been. 
I noticed on the Footy Show yesterday morning we have had 18 players injured this year to "soft tissue injuries" for a total of over 60 games!

Big game this Friday! 

Cheers
Duckman


----------



## nulla nulla (16 July 2012)

Logique said:


> Not getting any easier for you Bomber fans. The Cats away, Hawthorn, the Crows away, North, Carlton, Richmond, and Collingwood. Ouch.
> 
> I'm a Swans supporter, but I think the Bombers have the Brownlow medallist onboard.




Goldcoast beat Richmond, you should be able to get that one.


----------



## Logique (16 July 2012)

nulla nulla said:


> Goldcoast beat Richmond, you should be able to get that one.



Ha ha very true Nulla. I wouldn't have minded seeing the Tige's win, but what about Karmichael H. kicking the winner, a season highlight.


----------



## Sean K (19 July 2012)

Our unavailable list:

M.Hibberd, M.Hurley, H.Hocking, P.Ryder, D.Zaharakis, B.Prismall

1/3 of our best team. 

Well, Prismall has been a disaster, so 1/3 less 1 x disaster.


----------



## Duckman#72 (20 July 2012)

kennas said:


> Well, Prismall has been a disaster, so 1/3 less 1 x disaster.




Agreed - he had big wraps on him when coming across from Geelong but so far hasn't lived up to expectations.

We still have Winderlich on the sidelines. With him in top form, I'd rate him in our Top 10. Unfortunately we were just seeing how good he was before the injury.

Will be interesting tonight. Both sides without key players. Will Essendon's "new depth" be able to beat Geelong's aging warriors and youngsters?   

(Win - lose or draw, it will be nice to see the Bombers playing in the Red and Black again anyway!!!)
I can't understand the AFL's view that they wouldn't accept the big wide red sash and little bit of black. I honestly thought the other night against St Kilda that it was more of a clash than their normal black strip.   


Duckman


----------



## prawn_86 (20 July 2012)

Duckman#72 said:


> (Win - lose or draw, it will be nice to see the Bombers playing in the Red and Black again anyway!!!)
> I can't understand the AFL's view that they wouldn't accept the big wide red sash and little bit of black. I honestly thought the other night against St Kilda that it was more of a clash than their normal black strip.




With the exception of Collinwood fans, i have never seen a teams supporters have such a sook over changing their colours _slightly_, for *one* game. Who cares???

NFL teams in America use different guernseys all the time and it has no impact on their brand or culture. 

Personally i quite like seeing my team in a different strip just to see what they come up with


----------



## Sean K (20 July 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> With the exception of Collinwood fans, i have never seen a teams supporters have such a sook over changing their colours _slightly_, for *one* game. Who cares???
> 
> NFL teams in America use different guernseys all the time and it has no impact on their brand or culture.
> 
> Personally i quite like seeing my team in a different strip just to see what they come up with



Adelaide are a very strange bunch.



:

That away jumper is an abommernation.


----------



## prawn_86 (20 July 2012)

So tell me then bomber supporters, what detrimental effect did that guernsey have on the team, the brand or their performance?


----------



## Sean K (20 July 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> So tell me then bomber supporters, what detrimental effect did that guernsey have on the team, the brand or their performance?



Well, I wouldn't have worn it. Full stop. I would have said, 'Sheeds, shove that jumper up your @rse, it's a disgrace!'. It's embarrassingly bad. And, when we played St Kilda, I actually think it clashed more with their jumper than our straight one. Ridiculous.


----------



## prawn_86 (20 July 2012)

kennas said:


> Well, I wouldn't have worn it. Full stop. I would have said, 'Sheeds, shove that jumper up your @rse, it's a disgrace!'. It's embarrassingly bad. And, when we played St Kilda, I actually think it clashed more with their jumper than our straight one. Ridiculous.




Not really answering my question though are you :


----------



## nulla nulla (21 July 2012)

Interesting comments about jumpers. IMO changing the exterior packaging doesn't make the contents any better. 

When they trot out the video records of champions of  the past, they are always wearing a traditional club jumper, not some new fangled fancy smancy dreamed up by some marketing d!ck that just wants to pick up a ridiculous amount of $ for dreaming up something that has little or nothing to do with the club.

Loyalty is a two way street. Clubs have responsibility to the legions of fans also, if they want them to stay fans.


----------



## Sean K (26 July 2012)

I'm going to the execution tomorrow night. 

Hopefully Robin Hood appears to save the evening.


----------



## prawn_86 (26 July 2012)

kennas said:


> I'm going to the execution tomorrow night.
> 
> Hopefully Robin Hood appears to save the evening.




And i'll be there to cheer on the Hawks (only cause we will be sitting in the Essendon members)


----------



## Sean K (26 July 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> And i'll be there to cheer on the Hawks (only cause we will be sitting in the Essendon members)



And the cleaners will discover your corpse under the seats the next morning. :


----------



## JTLP (26 July 2012)

kennas said:


> I'm going to the execution tomorrow night.
> 
> Hopefully Robin Hood appears to save the evening.




They had the odds in the paper - Hawks $1.12 to Essendon $5.00 

I'm a massive Hawks fan but really think the odds would be a fair bit closer - the game is at Etihad which the Dons seem to perform really well at; I feel the Hawks need a big area to either break through the middle or go wide to do what they do best...expecting it a lot closer.

Who do Essendon have out of note?


----------



## nomore4s (27 July 2012)

JTLP said:


> They had the odds in the paper - Hawks $1.12 to Essendon $5.00
> 
> I'm a massive Hawks fan but really think the odds would be a fair bit closer - the game is at Etihad which the Dons seem to perform really well at; I feel the Hawks need a big area to either break through the middle or go wide to do what they do best...expecting it a lot closer.




The odds are probably fair based on last weeks efforts by both teams. The mighty hawks were exceptional and the Bombers were very ordinary. But I'm expecting the bombers to take it to us as they tend to lift for games against us and with their backs to the wall who knows what will happen.

Not sure how they are going to stop our attack though, it is pretty potent atm even without Buddy.



> Who do Essendon have out of note?




Who don't they have out, is probably easier to answer:


----------



## Logique (27 July 2012)

From a Swans supporter, but Essendon at 5.00, there's some value there. 

I'll be going for them, I think we'll see more from them this week.


----------



## Miss Hale (27 July 2012)

I'm a Hawks supporter and I too thought the odds were silly   (Still think the Hawks will win though)

Go hawks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Ves (27 July 2012)

kennas said:


> I'm going to the execution tomorrow night.



I have a strange feeling about this game.  Hawthorn are cruising and haven't really been challenged for quite some time.  If we come out with any sort of will to win (ala Geelong) this game will be much closer than you think.  Hawthorn's play-style (high possession, short kicking) will bring them unstuck against a team who tackles well and pressures the ball carrier in numbers.  We're capable of that; but will we be able to come any where near to pulling it off?   Recent form says no, but I still hold some hope.


----------



## nomore4s (27 July 2012)

Ves said:


> Hawthorn's play-style (high possession, short kicking) will bring them unstuck against a team who tackles well and pressures the ball carrier in numbers.




Actually that is a bit of a myth. While I agree we do control possession and do kick short to control possession at times our current game plan is built around winning the stoppages and contested possessions, quick ball movement and our run and spread. In the last 8 or so weeks our run and spread has been amazing and is what is destroying teams.

IMO while any team that tackles well and puts pressure on the ball carrier is a huge chance to win the game the key to beating the Hawks atm is playing man on man and shutting down their run and spread which will slow down the ball movement and create turnover opportunities.

Are Essendon capable of doing this? We will find out tonight but the Pies weren't and they got burnt because of it. The other side of the equation is Essendon need to apply scoreboard pressure early.


----------



## sammy84 (27 July 2012)

If buddy was playing tonight it could get ugly. 

I'm still doubtful that Crameri will play tonight, leaving us with Gumbleton as the only target. We really need Hurley back.


----------



## prawn_86 (27 July 2012)

I dont bet much, but as others have said, Dons at Etihad over $5 is probably worth a sneaky wager


----------



## Duckman#72 (27 July 2012)

nomore4s said:


> Are Essendon capable of doing this? We will find out tonight but the Pies weren't and they got burnt because of it. The other side of the equation is Essendon need to apply scoreboard pressure early.




After watching both games last week, Geelong looked more impressive in last weeks win over Bombers than Hawthorn did over the Pies. What that means who knows?

But Essendon and the Pies have a lot in common at the present - misfiring forward lines and some injuries. 

Essendon have been "unlucky" in that according to commentators, Geelong and St Kilda both had their best games of the year. Bombers need to bounce back. Eithad is a help but they need pressure, both tackling and scoreboard.

Duckman


----------



## nomore4s (27 July 2012)

Duckman#72 said:


> After watching both games last week, Geelong looked more impressive in last weeks win over Bombers than Hawthorn did over the Pies.




I was at both games live and I actually thought it was the other way around, but I am bias towards the hawks. Geelong for mine weren't that impressive, I thought they just beat up on a team struggling with injuries and form but I do agree it was clearly the best game Geelong have played so far this year.

Hopefully it's a good game tonight but I've got a feeling it could be one-sided, even though the Hawks are due for a down week.


----------



## Miss Hale (28 July 2012)

Great stuff Hawks


----------



## Sean K (28 July 2012)

I stayed till the end and listened to the Hawks song a couple of times. Never realised how vanilla it was. Blah!

Gee Hawks look good.


----------



## Ves (28 July 2012)

kennas said:


> I stayed till the end and listened to the Hawks song a couple of times. Never realised how vanilla it was. Blah!
> 
> Gee Hawks look good.



I'd say we looked really bad, rather than them being really good.  A good side capitalised on the lack of defensive effort of the other side.

Hawks have had an easy run since round 6  (only difficult game was the Collingwood game, but I believe they had a shocker themselves).  It's going to be interesting to see how they go against the better sides.

As for us - do I really want to watch and feel more pain next weekend?


----------



## Sean K (28 July 2012)

Ves said:


> I'd say we looked really bad, rather than them being really good.  A good side capitalised on the lack of defensive effort of the other side.
> 
> Hawks have had an easy run since round 6  (only difficult game was the Collingwood game, but I believe they had a shocker themselves).  It's going to be interesting to see how they go against the better sides.
> 
> As for us - do I really want to watch and feel more pain next weekend?



It was more their intent V. In the end, they just wanted the ball more.

It's one of the most fundamental things about footy. Who wants the ball more, wins. 

Bombers need to get that hunger back.

Or, they are toast.


----------



## Ves (28 July 2012)

kennas said:


> It was more their intent V. In the end, they just wanted the ball more.
> 
> It's one of the most fundamental things about footy. Who wants the ball more, wins.
> 
> ...



Exactly what I mean... just like Melbourne did when our downward march started. It's not so much about skill when one side lays down and isn't hungry. It's something we have to find again, I don't see it happening again this year.  Not saying we cannot make the 8, but I feel as if our form now has become irrelevant in shaping the finals series.  I didn't expect us to make an influence this year actually, but I hope we can continue improving next year and start building a consistent side.  Well over due!


----------



## Sean K (28 July 2012)

Ves said:


> It's not so much about skill when one side lays down and isn't hungry. It's something we have to find again.



Stanton needs to get hungry again. I watched him all night and he seemed to be spectating. I'm sure the coaching staff have his GPS read out and are asking questions.


----------



## nomore4s (29 July 2012)

Ves said:


> I'd say we looked really bad, rather than them being really good.  A good side capitalised on the lack of defensive effort of the other side.
> 
> Hawks have had an easy run since round 6  (only difficult game was the Collingwood game, but I believe they had a shocker themselves).  It's going to be interesting to see how they go against the better sides.




You've got to be kidding.

Since Rd 10 we've played 3 teams in the top 8 - NMFC, Pies, Bombers and our average winning margin is 85 points. Make no mistake Hawthorn are the best team in the competition right now.
Whether that translates to a premiership or whether we can hold this form for the rest of the year is yet to be seen but they deserve to be red hot favourites imo. Sydney is the only other team that can lay claim to being a premiership threat based on current form and injuries imo.

Our ability to open teams up from turnovers and our back half with our run and spread is amazing to watch atm, our defensive pressure is unbelievable and is making it very hard to score against us. The only time teams are scoring against us lately is when we are already 60+ points in front.


----------



## Tink (29 July 2012)

Yep, I think it will be your (Hawthorns) year, nomore4s.
I think they will win the Grand Final.

My opinion


----------



## IFocus (29 July 2012)

nomore4s said:


> Make no mistake Hawthorn are the best team in the competition right now.




With out a doubt and when Cyril Rioli fires (joy to watch) everyone else is toast.


----------



## Miss Hale (29 July 2012)

kennas said:


> I stayed till the end and listened to the Hawks song a couple of times. Never realised how vanilla it was. Blah!
> 
> Gee Hawks look good.




Vanilla??  Nothing vanilla about 'riding the bumps with a grin'    Scraping the bottom of the barrel picking on our song .  Maybe you should have left at half time like most of the other Essendon supporters : 

Bombers were very undermanned and ran in to the Hawks in full flight unfortunately.  Hopefully you get a few back and pick up some form over the next few weeks although you don't have an easy run home.


----------



## Sean K (29 July 2012)

Miss Hale said:


> Vanilla??  Nothing vanilla about 'riding the bumps with a grin'    Scraping the bottom of the barrel picking on our song .  Maybe you should have left at half time like most of the other Essendon supporters :
> 
> Bombers were very undermanned and ran in to the Hawks in full flight unfortunately.  Hopefully you get a few back and pick up some form over the next few weeks although you don't have an easy run home.



It's a crap song Miss. Not many Hawks still in the ground singing it with gusto either. Perhaps they got bored with Cyril's vanilla ball handling.


----------



## nomore4s (30 July 2012)

kennas said:


> It's a crap song Miss. Not many Hawks still in the ground singing it with gusto either. Perhaps they got bored with *Cyril's vanilla ball handling*.




hahaha jealous much, especially because you guys passed on Cyril and took David Myers instead, but why do you need Cyril when you have Jetta and Davey

Edit: our song may be crap, but at least we get to sing it:


----------



## Sean K (30 July 2012)

OK Hawks win. :bricks1:


----------



## Duckman#72 (30 July 2012)

This is the kind of rubbish that Bombers were throwing up when I started this thread.

Weak, uninspiring, insipid and tired. Most of the players either looked outclassed, disinterested or past it. Lucky to find 6 players that even provided a contest in their position.

The manner in which we have capitulated over the past few weeks - we will be lucky to make the eight.

Go Hawks for the flag.....or Geelong (Anyone but the Pies!!) 

Duckman


----------



## Ves (30 July 2012)

nomore4s said:


> You've got to be kidding.
> 
> Since Rd 10 we've played 3 teams in the top 8 - NMFC, Pies, Bombers and our average winning margin is 85 points. Make no mistake Hawthorn are the best team in the competition right now.
> Whether that translates to a premiership or whether we can hold this form for the rest of the year is yet to be seen but they deserve to be red hot favourites imo. Sydney is the only other team that can lay claim to being a premiership threat based on current form and injuries imo.
> ...



Essendon have capitulated badly and haven't played like a top 8 side for quite a few weeks now.  NMFC - perrennial fodder against top 4 sides.   I still think your draw since round 6 has been fantastic - perhaps not the best in the league but certainly not too tough.  Probably deserve to be favourites - but I won't give them that sort of credit until they prove themselves against Sydney in Round 22.  Hawks have been favourite every year since 2008 and haven't performed on the big stage. Hence my skepticism.


----------



## Sean K (5 August 2012)

Howlett and Winderlich injured. The Weapon is in the breach. 

Good win Crows. Played quarter speed and still fell in.


----------



## Ves (5 August 2012)

Pretty shattered about that actually. At least if we get thumped I forget about it pretty quickly. Looks like we won't make the finals.  Freo coming home with a wet sail.


----------



## tech/a (5 August 2012)

Crows will knock off Freo.
Essendon deserved that win
Crows far too soft.
Too soft to win finals!


----------



## prawn_86 (6 August 2012)

tech/a said:


> Crows far too soft.
> Too soft to win finals!




I didnt watch the game so cant really comment on the hardness, but Sanderson is right in saying at least we found a way to win. A year ago they wouldn't have.

If they can win while not playing full tilt and come from behind and hold on under pressure that is a good sign imo

Obviously you would prefer them to play 100% but sometimes you just have games where you are 'off'


----------



## tech/a (6 August 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> I didnt watch the game so cant really comment on the hardness, but Sanderson is right in saying at least we found a way to win. A year ago they wouldn't have.
> 
> If they can win while not playing full tilt and come from behind and hold on under pressure that is a good sign imo
> 
> Obviously you would prefer them to play 100% but sometimes you just have games where you are 'off'




All true.
But at the pointy end of the year you have to be right on your game
Always/not for a few quarters --- always.
watched the Hawks/Geelong game.--Thats what Im talking about. That was the two finalists right there
if the others dont lift to that standard.--Awsome--both of them!

Really feel for Port although I cant stand them and their Supporters.
Its a tough long long road---and who would want to go there!
Most here drive around Port Adelaide.


----------



## Sean K (6 August 2012)

Can we blame The Weapon?

While getting stronger is important it shouldn't be at the expense of so much game time. There's a balance, and he and his crew have got it wrong. While the senior coaches would have been briefed on the risk, there wouldn't have been this much risk presented. The numbers are staggering. Cost us games.


----------



## springhill (6 August 2012)

Bad luck fellas, I feel for the Bombers. 
Out of North Melb, Essendon, Freo, St Kilda and Carlton, the teams with a realistic mathematical chance of making the 8, I hope the Bombers and the Roos make it.
Just glad we didn't give your percentage a hammering


----------



## Sean K (6 August 2012)

And my theory on Hurley stands. Overrated. Too short. He's only 3cm taller than Jobe, and lighter. 

Had to stand up last night when it mattered.

Now he'll kick a bag.


----------



## Ves (6 August 2012)

kennas said:


> Can we blame The Weapon?
> 
> While getting stronger is important it shouldn't be at the expense of so much game time. There's a balance, and he and his crew have got it wrong. While the senior coaches would have been briefed on the risk, there wouldn't have been this much risk presented. The numbers are staggering. Cost us games.



The training program (weights and muscle etc) will not have it's impact felt to the fullest until the 2013 season (if you can believe the spiel that the coaching staff came out with before this year even started).  I hope it is correct,  the list will be better after another pre-season.  Hopefully we can run out the year.

Tech/a -  I don't think "soft" is the right word for Adelaide at the moment,  I think they have looked tired more than anything in the past few weeks.  Pretty similar to Essendon, yet not as many injuries so they have won more games.   Perhaps the Crows will find another gear come finals time and it is just a lull.


----------



## prawn_86 (6 August 2012)

Ves said:


> Perhaps the Crows will find another gear come finals time and it is just a lull.




Not meaning to derail the thread but i figure i can talk about Adelaide in here until the next Essondon game at least... My biggest worry is that while they probably are a bit tired, it is that time in the season, but the Crows do not play anyone in the top 8 for the rest of the home and away season, so will they actually be able to step it up and match the intensity in the finals? 

An easy run may not be the best thing


----------



## Duckman#72 (13 August 2012)

Essendon's finals future is now officially on life support. Need to keep (start) winning and rely on others losing.  

How did it get to this??!!

Duckman


----------



## nomore4s (13 August 2012)

Duckman#72 said:


> Essendon's finals future is now officially on life support. Need to keep (start) winning and rely on others losing.
> 
> How did it get to this??!!
> 
> Duckman




lol

That fitness guru who calls himself the weapon has a bit to answer for imo. He is a weapon alright, to everyone he trains. It is all well and good to go in with a mandate to build bigger bodies like they did at Geelong but you can't do it over one pre-season and you need to take into account past training loads and injuries etc. Too big too soon without out the proper base causes (shock horror) injuries.


----------



## gav (13 August 2012)

If the bottom 4 of the top 8 doesn't change between now and the end of season, then in Round 1 of the finals say HELLO to West Coast in Perth


----------



## Duckman#72 (13 August 2012)

gav said:


> If the bottom 4 of the top 8 doesn't change between now and the end of season, then in Round 1 of the finals say HELLO to West Coast in Perth




Just great! 

Of all the combinations and permutations you could have with the Top 8, for an Essendon supporter, there is not one worse than playing West Coast in Perth. 

Even Collingwood at the G, would give me more room for optimism.

Yes Nomores, "The Weapon of Self Destruction" has a lot of answering to do. Although if the Bombers come out and blitz 2013 who are we to say it was the wrong approach. 

It was interesting to note that in the Herald Sun at the start of the year, of the 20 expert tipsters, only one had Essendon in the 8 come finals. Maybe we are just playing to our ability? 

We need to get another one or two key position players. How hard is it to get a forward? 

Nomores - your guys seem to be winning easy at the moment. How about trading that bloke Franklin for Gumbleton? Same size, same draft pick, only Gumbleton is a few years younger. You guys would be getting a steal!! 

Duckman


----------



## gav (14 August 2012)

Not sure if it has been mentioned earlier, but your season has been scarily similar to last year.  Off to a rip-roaring start, a top 4 finish looking quite probable... then fading badly and barely scraping into the 8.

Not that I can talk, my team (West Coast) have performed poorly over the last month or so.  The loss against Freo (and Pies beating Swans) almost locks us out of the top 4 (now only a mathematical possibility).  Still, there have been no standout teams this year, which will make for an interesting finals series.


----------



## Ves (14 August 2012)

gav said:


> Not sure if it has been mentioned earlier, but your season has been scarily similar to last year.  Off to a rip-roaring start, a top 4 finish looking quite probable... then fading badly and barely scraping into the 8.



Think we did the same in either 2008 or 2009 too. It's been a hallmark of ours unfortunately.


----------



## nulla nulla (15 August 2012)

Should be a good game against carlton (?) this weekend. Both are pretty desperate atm.


----------



## nomore4s (15 August 2012)

Duckman#72 said:


> Just great!
> 
> Of all the combinations and permutations you could have with the Top 8, for an Essendon supporter, there is not one worse than playing West Coast in Perth.
> 
> ...




Not sure they will even make the 8 so I wouldn't be too worried about who you play 1st week.

As for Franklin, atm we need him as a depth player:, so he is off the trade table, sorry. But I hear a bloke called Cloke is available, even though he is possibly the most over-rated player in the comp atm, and will soon be the most over paid. He has had 1 and a half good seasons ffs, and they were like 3 years apart.


----------



## Logique (15 August 2012)

nomore4s said:


> .. a bloke called Cloke is available, even though he is possibly the most over-rated player in the comp atm, and will soon be the most over paid. He has had 1 and a half good seasons ffs, and they were like 3 years apart.



Sorry Bombers supporters, don't want to hijack your thread - but that's a reasonable point Nomore4s. Imho Collingwood should give serious thought to letting Cloke leave. Spend the money on keeping the likes of Reid and Pendlebury.


----------



## Duckman#72 (15 August 2012)

Logique said:


> Imho Collingwood should give serious thought to letting Cloke leave. Spend the money on keeping the likes of Reid and Pendlebury.




Totally agree. Not only Reid and Pendlebury. They need to keep the core group of Sidebottom, Beams, Wellingham and young guns like Elliott etc together and happy. 

Not only is Cloke over-rated, the antics of he and his father this year just smacks of a mercenary for hire. Certainly hasn't endeared himself to the Collingwood fans I know. Great example of how not to undertake contract negotiations.

For much of the season there hasn't been much difference between Gumbleton's stats and Cloke's which sadly says more about Clokes form than Gumbies.

Duckman


----------



## Ves (18 August 2012)

A new low every week at the moment.  Not sure what to say really.


----------



## stewiejp (19 August 2012)

Ves said:


> A new low every week at the moment.  Not sure what to say really.





Roll on the EPL... 

Wasn't that long ago "we" were talking of top 4... then "we'll be comfortably in the 8, maybe not top 4 but still in it." then.... "**** hope we make the 8"

Now.. "There's always next year..."


sigh.


----------



## stewiejp (19 August 2012)

... or the LFL!


----------



## gav (26 August 2012)

Ves said:


> A new low every week at the moment.  Not sure what to say really.




And the trend continues for another week...

Can you at least do the Eagles a favour and beat the Pies this week? :


----------



## nomore4s (27 August 2012)

I really can't believe how far the Bombers have dropped off the pace.

From 8-1 to 11-10 and missing the finals. But they aren't even competitive atm, thought the Bomobers might be a chance to upset the Pies but not after seeing them play on the weekend.


----------



## Ves (27 August 2012)

nomore4s said:


> I really can't believe how far the Bombers have dropped off the pace.
> 
> From 8-1 to 11-10 and missing the finals. But they aren't even competitive atm, thought the Bomobers might be a chance to upset the Pies but not after seeing them play on the weekend.



This is the worst drop-off by far that I have seen in recent years  (and boy, have we been good at second half of the season fades).  It's a major talking point and a bit of a tragedy for our supporters.  Let us hope the coaching staff get it right over the pre-season, or we may yet have a new coach and staff, much sooner than expected.

It's frustrating, because as an outsider, there is no real way of telling if this was expected or is an aberration  (as it looks like).

Great win against Sydney by your boys by the way.   I have no trouble thinking they are deserving flag favourites now,  I think that game answered quite a few outstanding queries that I may have had  (the main one being the effect of having a "soft run" to their intensity).  The Cats game may well have been a blip.


----------



## Knobby22 (27 August 2012)

You should always distrust anyone who has the overconfidence to call themselves names such as"The Weapon"   
(or the Scud,Missile etc.). Overconfidence means they are not questioning themselves and leads to mistakes.

The team is limping over the line and look a mess. 

The fact we got crushed by Carlton who got beaten by Goldcoast, says it all.


----------



## nomore4s (27 August 2012)

Ves said:


> Great win against Sydney by your boys by the way.   I have no trouble thinking they are deserving flag favourites now,  I think that game answered quite a few outstanding queries that I may have had  (the main one being the effect of having a "soft run" to their intensity).  The Cats game may well have been a blip.




Yeah good win but if we keep giving teams big head starts it will bite us on the bum in the finals.

The Geelong game was no different to the Swans game imo, Rioli gets paid for his tackle on Duncan we win and the Swans game could have been decided by a lucky bounce or free kick either way, it just went our way on the night. By letting teams get the jump on us early they are in the game in the last couple of minutes which then makes it a 50/50 prospect, don't want to give teams that chance in a prelim or GF.


----------



## Sean K (27 August 2012)

Shocking effort by the Bombers. Several middle of the road players who stood up in the first half, and were the difference between last year and this, have disappeared. Those long term contracts handed out early in the year will add to our woeful recent recruiting record. The player list has been very poorly managed. Surely there's scope in the cap to be picking up a Goddard, or a Boak, or a Beams!


----------



## Sean K (31 August 2012)

Moloney might help next year.


----------



## Miss Hale (1 September 2012)

First time in a while I'm barracking for the Bombers but I hope they beat Collingwood tonight.  Any chance?


----------



## Ves (1 September 2012)

Miss Hale said:


> First time in a while I'm barracking for the Bombers but I hope they beat Collingwood tonight.  Any chance?



Sure.  If we turn up and want to win.  But that's a big IF if the last two months are anything to go by!


----------



## Duckman#72 (3 September 2012)

Duckman#72 said:


> No good at all. Kennas - Collingwood are not that good.
> 
> I was very disappointed in the lack of effort and committment.
> 
> ...




This is a quote I made from 2008 after Essendon's match with Collingwood. 

You may as well just fill in the players names as you see fit from last night. We have exactly the same problems as we were having 5 years ago. 

Just note that we can now say "Hirdy has some work to do. He has the same problems with the same players that Knights had, and that Sheeds had before that".

I completely agree with Kennas comments on list management. 

Duckman


----------



## Sean K (25 September 2012)

kennas said:


> I've put $50 on Stants for B&F, and $50 on Jobe for Brownlow.



Well, at least Jobe stood up!! woohoo!!!


----------



## JTLP (25 September 2012)

kennas said:


> Well, at least Jobe stood up!! woohoo!!!




Nice work on that one! What did you net? He would have been at a min $6 when you put that bet...


----------



## prawn_86 (25 September 2012)

JTLP said:


> Nice work on that one! What did you net? He would have been at a min $6 when you put that bet...




Well he was at $4.75 last night so K must have made a decent bit of coin if he took the bet earlier


----------



## Sean K (25 September 2012)

Just $240. The cost of a decent meal in Sydney. 

It's the principle that counts though. Money won is twice as sweet as money earned. Or is that 10 times? 

Jobe for a second medal next year competing with Danger, Beams, Cotchin, and left field Natanui.


----------



## Sean K (30 September 2012)

Do we want Goddard? Isn't the best behind him?


----------



## Miss Hale (1 October 2012)

And is he worth $700,000 if you do get him?


----------



## sammy84 (1 October 2012)

I love all this talk wondering if the best is behind him. He has 1 bad year by his standards, it seems a little early to be saying his best is behind him. He can play both key position and midfield. He doesn't have a history of injuries. This is a great deal to me.

I'm fairly certain the dons would front load his contract so this move wouldn't affect the salary cap. This is no-brainer.


----------



## Sean K (1 October 2012)

sammy84 said:


> I love all this talk wondering if the best is behind him. He has 1 bad year by his standards, it seems a little early to be saying his best is behind him. He can play both key position and midfield. He doesn't have a history of injuries. This is a great deal to me.
> 
> I'm fairly certain the dons would front load his contract so this move wouldn't affect the salary cap. This is no-brainer.



Not even a bad year really, but he's 27. Peak years are about 23 -28. Four year contract takes him to 31. He will just decline from here won't he? Maybe not and he plays to 38. Fingers crossed. He's an amazing player, and I'll be very interested to see what his role will be. Hopefully we get Moloney as well.


----------



## sammy84 (2 October 2012)

kennas said:


> Not even a bad year really, but he's 27. Peak years are about 23 -28. Four year contract takes him to 31. He will just decline from here won't he? Maybe not and he plays to 38. Fingers crossed. He's an amazing player, and I'll be very interested to see what his role will be. Hopefully we get Moloney as well.




I don't think it is costing us too much in terms of salary cap pressure, which is all I care about. Whilst it may cost a little $$ wise, that is not a problem for us. I would imagine we would have quite a bit of space in our salary cap given our lack of established stars. Assuming we have front loaded his contract this is a great pick up as it allows us to use the excess salary cap space.


----------



## Duckman#72 (2 October 2012)

sammy84 said:


> I don't think it is costing us too much in terms of salary cap pressure, which is all I care about. Whilst it may cost a little $$ wise, that is not a problem for us. I would imagine we would have quite a bit of space in our salary cap given our lack of established stars. Assuming we have front loaded his contract this is a great pick up as it allows us to use the excess salary cap space.




On first thoughts I say - you beauty (until you think about how he is a 27 year old that has already played 200 games) 

I'll take your word on the salary cap pressure. I don't know enough about their situation. We have a lot of good quality juniors coming through and I hope it doesn't jeopardise our ability to keep them. In a recent article in the Herald Sun, Essendon were ranked No 1 in terms of quality of players under 23 years of age with less than 50 games experience. 

I'm like Kennas - not many players play their best footy between 210 and 300 games. They are solid contributors who more than hold their spot in the side, but their ability to control or dominate a match starts to diminish. 

One thing in Goddard's favour is that he has been a slow developer. People forget that for years he was a much maligned player at St Kilda (mainly due to the pressure of being a No 1 draft pick). His early development was not as quick or exciting as people expected. Then almost overnight, everything clicked and he became a "superstar". Maybe he will burn brighter for longer.

As a side note - will he be the first No 1 Draft pick to ever play for Essendon? I know Essendon has never had a No 1 pick themselves, but I don't recall us even drafting a No 1. 

I'm not unhappy about losing Monfries. He will be a good player at Port or another club, but he has been treading water for some time now. Either he doesn't fit with the game style that Essendon plays, or Essendon are not using him correctly. Either way something has to change.  

Duckman


----------



## nomore4s (5 February 2013)

Uh oh...................... Not a good start to the year.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/essendon-facing-afl-investigation/story-fnelctok-1226570861343


----------



## Miss Hale (5 February 2013)

nomore4s said:


> Uh oh...................... Not a good start to the year.
> 
> http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/essendon-facing-afl-investigation/story-fnelctok-1226570861343




At least it's taken the Buddy story off the back page


----------



## Sean K (5 February 2013)

Pretty bizarre. 

It's either listed as a banned substance, or not. 

Why do you have to dig deeper than that?

Read the label, idiots. 

Or,

Maybe this is the organisational loop in the three strikes policy. Admit you've taken it, and it's all hunky dory.


----------



## Macquack (5 February 2013)

kennas said:


> Or,
> 
> Maybe this is the organisational loop in the three strikes policy. *Admit you've taken it, and it's all hunky dory*.




I think you nailed it.


----------



## Miss Hale (5 February 2013)

kennas said:


> Pretty bizarre.
> 
> It's either listed as a banned substance, or not.
> 
> ...




Except that that applies to recreational drugs not performance enhancing ones. 

I do agree though, the whole thing is bizarre


----------



## Duckman#72 (5 February 2013)

Miss Hale said:


> Except that that applies to recreational drugs not performance enhancing ones.
> 
> I do agree though, the whole thing is bizarre




:frown: come on guys -where's the faith!!??

If Craig Thomsen can claim innocence over 150 fraud charges, surely we can assume that this is also a big misunderstanding.

Duckman


----------



## basilio (6 February 2013)

This is going to be oh so tricky for the AFL...

Lets say they do find serious problems with  the widespread administration of performance enhancing drugs. On the face of it the club should be penalized  almost with suspension. Coaches and administrators could be banned, charged.  Players could be suspended.

But what would be the effect on revenue of a suspended or severely handicapped  Essendon Football Club ? How would the bombers fans respond ? *What would the TV networks say about  this ?*

Will be fascinating to see how  it comes out ..


----------



## nomore4s (6 February 2013)

Miss Hale said:


> Except that that applies to recreational drugs not performance enhancing ones.
> 
> I do agree though, the whole thing is bizarre




Pretty sure there is a clause that if you come forward and admit usage with no other evidence ie positive drug test, the penalty is halved. Not 100% sure though.

It is certainly interesting to see how this plays out.


----------



## pixel (6 February 2013)

basilio said:


> This is going to be oh so tricky for the AFL...
> 
> Lets say they do find serious problems with  the widespread administration of performance enhancing drugs. On the face of it the club should be penalized  almost with suspension. Coaches and administrators could be banned, charged.  Players could be suspended.
> 
> ...




They need an expert:
They should hire Lance Armstrong as the League's Nutritionist Advisor.


----------



## Miss Hale (6 February 2013)

Duckman#72 said:


> :frown: come on guys -where's the faith!!??
> 
> If Craig Thomsen can claim innocence over 150 fraud charges, surely we can assume that this is also a big misunderstanding.
> 
> Duckman




Well I am in fact a Hawthorn supporter so am enjoying a fairly healthy dose of schadenfreude at the moment


----------



## basilio (6 February 2013)

Had  a look at some comments made on another forum  (Big Football).

While I was only half joking with my comments I think one particular comment may have summed this up rather more clearly.
_
I don't know about the rest of you, but after practically reading about this for the past 10 hours, I still have no idea what to think of it all. One minute I'm confident we'll come out of it fine, then the next I'm **** scared of the possibilities.

To begin with, let's start with the obvious.

What the **** were they thinking administering supplements that were 'borderline' anyway! The drugs policy is relatively clear cut in regards to what is and isn't an acceptable substance and an acceptable method of administering it. If it was such a grey area, why was clarification not sought? Why even go there if it's borderline? Just utterly ******* ridiculous and incompetent whichever way you look at it.

Now as for the club not knowing, that is pretty damn flimsy. How exactly do you not notice players gone once a month mysteriously? As if players don't mention the injections, the coaches definitely had to have had some idea. That's also ignoring the fact that half of BigFooty knew about this scandal months before it broke. Hell, even the Herald Sun was probing around November asking the club question about it. It's extremelly naive to think the club didn't know, especially as it has been revealed the AFL had launched it's own investigation prior to the club coming forward.

All that is ignoring other questionable things such as waivers, the mysterious $10,000 expenses claimed by Dank, the off-site administering plus the possible criminal involvement.

That's all been done though, unfortunately, we need to prepare for what could still come.

I've come to the conclusion that we are either completely innocent and will walk away free of charges, or we will be found guilty and have all hell brought upon us.

Now, one news oulet is claiming that up to 80% of our list was involved in this program.

*WADA/ASADA has a strict 2-year ban for those found guilty of using PED for the first time. Potentially, that could mean up to 30+ of our players would be rubbed out for two years. Then you have to factor in officials who were in on it as well, so chuck in bans for them.

If this is found to be systematic, WADA/ASADA also has the ability to ban clubs as well.

For those still unaware, ignorance is no excuse. Even if the players had no idea what they were being administered, they will still receive a two year ban.*

Put simply, if our players have taken a substance deemed to an illicit substance, we are royally screwed.

No ifs, no buts.

Make no mistake, this club will destroyed.

We better ******* pray that no illegal substances were administered.

Hold on folks, these are dark days ahead._


----------



## Knobby22 (6 February 2013)

Scary stuff. The weapon just keeps firing at his own side. I'm really annoyed.


----------



## Miss Hale (6 February 2013)

One thing that strikes me as strange is the bit about players signing waivers.  I find it hard to believe that not one of these players would not have gone to Hird or someone else high up at the club and brought this to their attention.  I can't believe thay all signed the waivers without question and didn't talk to anyone about it  

Schadenfreude aside, I sincerely hope this isn't anything serious because it's no good for the AFL if one of our teams are effectively wiped out for a season or two.  There are also rumours that other clubs are affected too, if that is true how would that impact on the competition?


----------



## basilio (6 February 2013)

Another article in The Age outlines how serious the situation  could get for Essendon and The AFL.

Short story is that the AFL did all they could to stay out of  WADA/ASADA.  It was the Federal Government in 2005  that demanded the AFL  be subject to the tough oversight of WADA.

Essentially ASADA is not going to whitewash any issues it discovers. The mandatory penalties of 2 years suspension of players who take PED's applies regardless of professed ignorance. If this affects  a large number of players the Bombers are effectively crippled for a couple of years and the AFL is similarly affected.

It will be fascinating to see how 'real politick' works over the next  few weeks.



> *Bombers' secret weapon backfires on AFL*
> 
> Date
> February 6, 2013 - 1:06PM
> ...


----------



## sval62 (6 February 2013)

2013  SUPPORTER  PACK


----------



## Sean K (6 February 2013)

McVeigh confirms Reimers is just a disgruntled sacked never was and responsible for this side show.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/mor...ays-day-of-drama/story-e6frf9jf-1226570861343



> "Kyle Reimers has come out and said things that are untrue," a spirited McVeigh said.
> 
> "He's a disgruntled player that was delisted by the football club that very rarely turned up to pre-season training in any sort of form that resembled a professional footballer.


----------



## Trembling Hand (6 February 2013)

Hahaha. Whatever it takes!!


----------



## nomore4s (6 February 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> Hahaha. Whatever it takes!!
> 
> View attachment 50877




Hahaha yeah I think a few are regretting picking that slogan for the season.

I think the powers to be at bomberland were told what was happening was all above board and then found out later it might not be so innocent.
Obviously once they found out what was really going on they went into damage control. I've got no doubt they knew something was fishy a while ago considering they sacked Danks in the middle of last year.

This has the potential to destroy Essendon and seriously damage the AFL.

I really hope it turns out to be a storm in a teacup for the sake of Essendon and the AFL, but I'm not so sure it will be. Just way too many questions needing to be answered atm.


----------



## Tink (7 February 2013)

Yes, I hope it is all a storm in a teacup as it wont be good for the AFL. 

Sadly, seems to be one after the other coming out, showing how competitive it has all become, big business, greed and the need for more.

Whatever happened to players playing and having a full time job away from the field.
Ahh those were the good ole days lol


----------



## Sean K (7 February 2013)

nomore4s said:


> I really hope it turns out to be a storm in a teacup for the sake of Essendon and the AFL, but I'm not so sure it will be. Just way too many questions needing to be answered atm.



I think it's a storm because of false information being provided by a disgruntled ex player. Reimers seems to have twisted the facts regarding the 'waiver' which sounds sinister. And everyone is having a cow because they were getting _injections_. Injections don't mean _illegal_.  

Essendon will be completely cleared of this and Reimers has lost any friend he may have had at Essendon. If he had any at all.


----------



## spooly74 (7 February 2013)

kennas said:


> I think it's a storm because of false information being provided by a disgruntled ex player. Reimers seems to have twisted the facts regarding the 'waiver' which sounds sinister. And everyone is having a cow because they were getting _injections_. Injections don't mean _illegal_.




I'm inclined to call the players victims at this stage. 
I simply don't believe they'd knowingly be that stupid.



> Essendon will be completely cleared of this and Reimers has lost any friend he may have had at Essendon. If he had any at all.




If doping happened, ignorance won't be an excuse.
You'll cop a hiding from the AFL.


----------



## Trembling Hand (7 February 2013)

kennas said:


> I think it's a storm because of false information being provided by a disgruntled ex player. Reimers seems to have twisted the facts regarding the 'waiver' which sounds sinister. And everyone is having a cow because they were getting _injections_. Injections don't mean _illegal_.
> 
> Essendon will be completely cleared of this and Reimers has lost any friend he may have had at Essendon. If he had any at all.




If that waiver is true that alone is as dodgy and unethical as you could force on a player. Very poor form.


----------



## nomore4s (7 February 2013)

kennas said:


> I think it's a storm because of false information being provided by a disgruntled ex player. Reimers seems to have twisted the facts regarding the 'waiver' which sounds sinister. And everyone is having a cow because they were getting _injections_. Injections don't mean _illegal_.
> 
> Essendon will be completely cleared of this and Reimers has lost any friend he may have had at Essendon. If he had any at all.




I hope you are right Kennas, but as more info comes out it is looking like dodgy practices were under taken by the EFC. The main problem is there appears to have been rumours around for a while in regards to this matter and I think it would have all hit the fan sooner or later even if Reimers didn't blow the whistle.

I think there will be no evidence that anything illegal was given to the players and there will be no charges laid but it doesn't excuse some of the poor practices put in place by the EFC. They really opened themselves up to very real threats to the whole organization. If it is found the substances injected were illegal it could get very ugly for everyone involved, especially the players.

I really feel for the players as they truly have done nothing wrong and if the reports are correct raised concerns at the time and were pretty much pressured into complying while being assured everything was above board. It will the the players who pay the biggest price if they were injected with illegal substances, so I really hope nothing comes of this. But either way heads should roll in the upper echelons of the EFC. Some very naive and ill thought out practices put into place in the search of quick success.


----------



## MrBurns (7 February 2013)

> An Australian Crime Commission investigation has found widespread drug use in Australian professional sport, with some athletes being given substances not yet approved for human use
> 
> The year-long investigation has identified organised criminal networks which have been involved in distributing the drugs to athletes and support staff, including doctors and coaches. In at least one case an entire team is believed to have been doped.




http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-07/4505884


----------



## Sean K (7 February 2013)

The overall response to this is farcical.

Every single person in the universe is jumping to conclusions.

Calm down people!

Even the AFL Players Association President (who you would expect to be measured and professional about this) is crying foul like some red headed trade unionist.



> "The evidence in the report is that players have undergone clinical trials so underdeveloped that the substances have not even been placed on the international drug lists,"






> "These players have been used as guinea pigs. These are damning findings.






> "They must co-operate and they will receive the independent advice and good counsel they clearly did not receive last year."




I don't really know what this means:



> "You just can't have the wool pulled over your eyes by guys with a specific skill," said Finnis. "It is a specific skill but not a skill I believe we need to avail ourselves of. Whilst clearly athletes must take responsibility and some high degree of culpability, it is simply disgraceful that these athletes have been caught up in illegal and experimental substance abuse."




THIS HASN'T BEEN INVESTIGATED YET!!!

Does he have red hair?


----------



## MrBurns (7 February 2013)

kennas said:


> The overall response to this is farcical.
> 
> ?




The media are salivating, the only thing that concerns me is if organised crime is involed but the only way you'll ever know is to watch the ABC where they try to keep the hysterics to a minimum.


----------



## Julia (7 February 2013)

MrBurns said:


> The media are salivating, the only thing that concerns me is if organised crime is involed but the only way you'll ever know is to watch the ABC where they try to keep the hysterics to a minimum.



So you don't feel concerned about doping in sport if it doesn't derive from organised crime?
(I might be misunderstanding what you said above.)


----------



## MrBurns (7 February 2013)

Julia said:


> So you don't feel concerned about doping in sport if it doesn't derive from organised crime?
> (I might be misunderstanding what you said above.)




I was just cutting to the chase, doping is bad alright but doping with organised crime involved in another level of seriousness entirely.


----------



## MrBurns (8 February 2013)

I'm so sick of this already, Ch 7 had 4 poor reporters at 4 separate sports grounds reporting on the "latest" there is no damn latest, they just go over the whole thing ad nauseum.

This is the best thing to happen to the Labor party in weeks, we dont even know who's been charged with corruption this week.


----------



## spooly74 (8 February 2013)

MrBurns said:


> I'm so sick of this already, Ch 7 had 4 poor reporters at 4 separate sports grounds reporting on the "latest" there is no damn latest, they just go over the whole thing ad nauseum.
> 
> This is the best thing to happen to the Labor party in weeks, we dont even know who's been charged with corruption this week.




A lot of hand waiving at the moment. 
Where are the arrests now the cat's out of the bag?

Back to the Bombers.
What's the best case scenario at the moment?
Assuming they're all clean, what will the sloppy administration (medical) cost them?


----------



## Miss Hale (8 February 2013)

MrBurns said:


> I'm so sick of this already, Ch 7 had 4 poor reporters at 4 separate sports grounds reporting on the "latest" there is no damn latest, they just go over the whole thing ad nauseum.
> 
> This is the best thing to happen to the Labor party in weeks, we dont even know who's been charged with corruption this week.




I'm sick of it too.  If I see Andrew Demetriou huffing and puffing with his "We will get you" threats one more time I think I'll scream!  If organised crime is involved I bet they're shaking in their boots  I agree they are just rehashing and chest beating. 

I don't think anything too bad will happen to Essendon, if it was going to it would have happened by now. Roll on season 2013 and we can enjoy some actual footy!


----------



## Gringotts Bank (8 February 2013)

Am I right that the lab results won't be complete for a few weeks?  It's quite possible that the substances used were legal.

The club doctor would have known about this and condoned it.  Why has no one interviewed Bruce Reid yet?


----------



## MrBurns (8 February 2013)

Miss Hale said:


> I'm sick of it too.  If I see Andrew Demetriou huffing and puffing with his "We will get you" threats one more time I think I'll scream!  If organised crime is involved I bet they're shaking in their boots  I agree they are just rehashing and chest beating.
> 
> I don't think anything too bad will happen to Essendon, if it was going to it would have happened by now. Roll on season 2013 and we can enjoy some actual footy!






Demetriou gets paid over $2.2m PA, I'd like to know what for, maybe they should investigage that.


----------



## Trembling Hand (8 February 2013)

kennas said:


> Does he have red hair?




I've been laughing at this for 12 hours,


----------



## pixel (8 February 2013)

Quite frankly, I've been wondering for a few years now WHEN this would blow up.
Surely, with betting websites becoming ubiquitous and "sponsoring" major events to the point that even commentators slip in the odds of who will kick the first goal, make the fastest 50, lose the fewest sets... Blind Freddy must have known that "organised crime" would be involved.

And Nick X is still debating whether pokies should be limited. 

"D'Oh!"


----------



## Gringotts Bank (8 February 2013)

Hird sure looks like an idiot.  I don't think he has much of an idea about people.

"The Weapon" (Robinson) caused chaos with injuries.  

Now "The Pharmacist" (Dank) pushing players into taking supplements they don't want to take.  Whether they're legal or not, he caused a stir when none was needed.  

Imagine employing these twits??  Hird was so desperate to win that he forced players to train far too hard and take **** they didn't need or want.  Hird has to go (lol...imagine that!! ).  But seriously, he's at fault here.


----------



## Duckman#72 (9 February 2013)

nomore4s said:


> I hope you are right Kennas, but as more info comes out it is looking like dodgy practices were under taken by the EFC. The main problem is there appears to have been rumours around for a while in regards to this matter and I think it would have all hit the fan sooner or later even if Reimers didn't blow the whistle.
> 
> I think there will be no evidence that anything illegal was given to the players and there will be no charges laid but it doesn't excuse some of the poor practices put in place by the EFC. They really opened themselves up to very real threats to the whole organization. If it is found the substances injected were illegal it could get very ugly for everyone involved, especially the players.
> 
> I really feel for the players as they truly have done nothing wrong and if the reports are correct raised concerns at the time and were pretty much pressured into complying while being assured everything was above board. It will the the players who pay the biggest price if they were injected with illegal substances, so I really hope nothing comes of this. But either way heads should roll in the upper echelons of the EFC. Some very naive and ill thought out practices put into place in the search of quick success.




Come on nomores. Have you been reading the latest developments? This has gone way past being a problem just for the Essendon Football Club. 

I fully agree with Kennas. People have gone way over the top considering much of the "evidence" is just rumour. Even the "waiver" that keeps getting mentioned could be nothing more than a "consent" form. 

Essendon possibly were naive in not fully understanding the power they had entrusted in their fitness department BUT, the developments of the last couple of days suggest the same naivety exists over the much of the Australian sporting landscape. The EFC were only following on from a methodology that Geelong used for success.

The new AFL rules and regulations surrounding "sports science" hasn't been introduced for the EFC - it has been coming for a long time. Patrick Smith mentioned in his article a few day ago that the trend of having the best "sports science" department started 10 years ago with Leigh Matthews and the Lions. He made a famous comment, "if it makes us .01% better, we will do it". Remember when the Lions chartered planes to fly at low altitudes back to Brisbane. Remember Brisbane was the first  club to instal a hyperoxic chamber in the club house. And remember when the Lions ran out on the field with bandages on their arms covering the plastic stints in their arms. That was so they could get saline drips put in at half time. This was all happening more than 10 years ago.

Thankfully the era of the wild west in sports science looks like coming to an end, and while I will not be unhappy to see "the weapon" and " the pharmacist" leave Essendon, I feel that the Bombers are the team paying the price for what the majority of teams are doing.

Duckman


----------



## IFocus (9 February 2013)

I am no doubt being biased here but if it was an interstate team aka WCE or Freo there would be lynch mobs riding out from Melbourne and high noon hangings.

Essendon look guilty as hell, everyone and I do mean everyone at the club in the training staff would have known. For what ever reason it looks like a real blunder and are now in damage control.

Deal has already been done with the AFL Mafia.

At worse there will be some poor joker offered up for blame and a few slapped wrists at most.


----------



## Sean K (9 February 2013)

Front page of everything this morning. Even The Fin. 

This is just media schadenfreude overflow. 

At this stage I just refuse to believe that James Hird would allow anything close to illegal occur under his watch. The man is beyond reproach. If he was born 2047 years ago we'd be calling 25 Dec Hirdmas.


----------



## Trembling Hand (9 February 2013)

This thread is starting to look like the PEN thread. Two camps at either end of the spectrum and NO ground given either way.

I've seen it many a time, eg PEN, RED, Lance Fraudstrong, TA vs Fundie, short selling, House prices..... 

Now EFC doping!!!!


----------



## prawn_86 (9 February 2013)

kennas said:


> If he was born 2047 years ago we'd be calling 25 Dec Hirdmas.




Gold!


----------



## Logique (9 February 2013)

It's a bit like musical chairs. The music stopped and EFC has been left standing up. 

Let's hope for the club's sake it isn't scapegoated too harshly. Will EFC get the Melbourne Storm treatment. Disheartening to be playing for no comp points, but I suppose a heavy fine is more likely.

That said, Essendon are entitled to the presumption of innocence here, and their day in court.


----------



## MrBurns (9 February 2013)

kennas said:


> Front page of everything this morning. Even The Fin.
> At this stage I just refuse to believe that James Hird would allow anything close to illegal occur under his watch. The man is beyond reproach. If he was born 2047 years ago we'd be calling 25 Dec Hirdmas.




I agree, he is one of the few, _very greats_ , and as straight as they come.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (9 February 2013)

MrBurns said:


> I agree, he is one of the few, _very greats_ , and as straight as they come.




He's a bright guy and seems honest, but so far, not a great coach.  As former greats, coaches often demand everyone plays at the level they were capable of, and that's a recipe for disaster.  While you want players to play to their best, it's just not possible for them to play beyond their natural limits.  Buckley continues to make this error with his group.  Too demanding.  Can't do what Malthouse did with virtually identical list.

Could have made a packet as a broker, I've heard.


----------



## Sean K (9 February 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> He's a bright guy and seems honest, but so far, not a great coach.



You're only as good as the cattle you've got grazing around in your field. You can prod them and poke them to encourage them to eat and sleep more, but they're still just the cattle you've been handed. Let's hope the chemist wasn't sprinkling the grass with banned hormones.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (11 February 2013)

Oh boy!  Just watching the Dank interview now.  He has some massive tells.  I'd like to play him at poker.  

He's a goner.  How will the AFL handle this?


----------



## Macquack (11 February 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Oh boy!  Just watching the Dank interview now.  He has some massive tells.  I'd like to play him at poker.
> 
> *He's a goner.  How will the AFL handle this*?




In the interview I say, Dank's admitted to nothing.

He stated that (under his watch) no players were administered any banned substances.


----------



## Sean K (11 February 2013)

He seems to have some tells, but he could have been nervous.

He said a couple of things that resonate with me.



> "They said they didn't think I had done anything wrong."
> 
> Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/essend...ements-dank-20130211-2e8yp.html#ixzz2Ka52gyqP




Could he be that stupid to lie at this stage?


----------



## Sean K (11 February 2013)

AND, I am absolutely disgusted by Wilsons and Robinsons reporting of this. New lows in objective journalism. 

They have both gone to the bottom of the pile in terms of quality AFL commentators.

Both are extremely annoying and over rated as it is, but this takes the cake.

They will cop it from the 'real' AFL fraternity once this gets resolved. Why would anyone speak to them after this?

I'm looking forward to an unreserved apology once James in absolved of responsibility, and completely exonerated of any wrong doing.


----------



## banco (11 February 2013)

It's a joke using the Australian Crime Commission to investigate whether some players may or may not be using performance enhancing drugs.  They have highly coercive powers and were set up to investigate organised crime etc.  Bet you they will be highlighting this investigation when they ask for more money for their budget.


----------



## Sean K (11 February 2013)

banco said:


> It's a joke using the Australian Crime Commission to investigate whether some players may or may not be using performance enhancing drugs.  They have highly coercive powers and were set up to investigate organised crime etc.  Bet you they will be highlighting this investigation when they ask for more money for their budget.



There's a lot of money in sport and sport is in the DNA of our culture so I understand why money is spent on keeping it clean. However, I agree, what if the money spent on this little escapade was spent on analysing the effort of really harmful substances like alcohol and tobacco and controlling that a little better? They are the real killers of our society, not some drug that makes you recover quicker from exercise!


----------



## banco (11 February 2013)

kennas said:


> There's a lot of money in sport and sport is in the DNA of our culture so I understand why money is spent on keeping it clean. However, I agree, what if the money spent on this little escapade was spent on analysing the effort of really harmful substances like alcohol and tobacco and controlling that a little better? They are the real killers of our society, not some drug that makes you recover quicker from exercise!




It's not just the money.  If you get interviewed by the ACC you have no right to silence and you can't tell anyone you were interviewed etc. They got those powers years ago on the understanding they'd be going after underbelly types not steroid users.


----------



## stewiejp (12 February 2013)

_what if the money spent on this little escapade was spent on analysing the effort of really harmful substances like alcohol and tobacco_

Pretty sure these two substances have been studied to death already, we all know they are bad for us, more study wouldn't make anyone smarter on health implications relating to tobacco and grog.

A fair chunk of money does need to be spent investigating drugs in sport IMO, otherwise this "Great Sporting Nation" could soon be looked at as a joke (in regards to competitive sports), and we as a country *could* lose support from both locals and international supporters/sponsors, and the fans start treating *our* sporting codes as a joke. 
The investigative bodies involved in this (ACC, police, pollies, AFL, ACB, NRL etc) need to be seen to be doing all they can to clean all this **** up - the possible loss of money through less local and international support for Australian Sports long term (if we are seen as "dirty" by fans and sponsors) would far outweigh any monetary outlay in 2013 for this investigation. 

Just how I see it all. IMO whoever is found "guilty" - be it a person, club or code - if the penalties aren't harsh enough, Joe Public will see it all as a joke. This coming from an Essendon Fan - If guilty I'm all for them either getting a ban for a period of time, or relegated to the VFL for a season or three, would keep them playing AND help local level footy as well.


----------



## nomore4s (12 February 2013)

Duckman#72 said:


> Come on nomores. Have you been reading the latest developments? This has gone way past being a problem just for the Essendon Football Club.
> 
> I fully agree with Kennas. People have gone way over the top considering much of the "evidence" is just rumour. Even the "waiver" that keeps getting mentioned could be nothing more than a "consent" form.
> 
> ...




Duckman, we may have got wires crossed here.

My post was actually stating that I don't think any charges will end up being leveled against Essendon. I also think it has just been a big media beat up in regards to the whole ACC thing, especially for the AFL.

So far only 1 AFL player has raised suspicions. And we already knew about the investigation into Essendon. NRL might be in more trouble but I'm not sure much will come of that either.

My comments regarding poor management on the part of the Bombers stand though. They put the club into a bad position where they had to go to the powers that be because they don't know for certain what was injected or supplied to their players. I think Essendon lost the handle a little bit on what was going on within their strength and conditioning program, which may have/could have serious consequences for the club and its players. IMO someone needs to be answerable for that, even if nothing comes of the investigation.


----------



## Miss Hale (12 February 2013)

kennas said:


> AND, I am absolutely disgusted by Wilsons and Robinsons reporting of this. New lows in objective journalism.
> 
> They have both gone to the bottom of the pile in terms of quality AFL commentators.
> 
> ...




I have never rated either Wilson or Robinson as decent journalists, both love rumours and ambulance chasing IMO.

I am really starting to think this is a huge storm in a teacup and I'm really sick of it.  Hope it all blows over and Essendon don't suffer unfairly.  I did think the 'parents meeting' at Essendon was a OTT though, what are they, kindergarten kids?  Was Dustin Fletcher's mum and dad there?


----------



## nomore4s (13 February 2013)

Miss Hale said:


> Was Dustin Fletcher's mum and dad there?




No but his grand kids were.


----------



## Sean K (13 February 2013)

I'm getting sick of these sorts of cop-outs.



> The Herald Sun is not suggesting Bombers players did use performance-enhancing drugs




After laying out a whole bunch of speculation, innuendo and no evidence, OBVIOUSLY suggesting the players and officials had done the wrong thing they use this as a means of protecting themselves legally.

It's a disgrace!! 

And, guess who?

Angry Mark Robinson, trying to make a story. 

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/mor...-anzac-day-clash/story-e6frf9jf-1226576536478


----------



## Duckman#72 (13 February 2013)

kennas said:


> I'm getting sick of these sorts of cop-outs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yes and Patrick Smith is acting like a lover scorned. If I have to read one more time how Essendon mismanaged the Sheedy/knights handover I'll scream!

This whole thing is starting to look ridiculous.  The "blackest day in sport" is starting to look more like a mild shade of beige.

Duckman


----------



## Julia (13 February 2013)

Duckman#72 said:


> Yes and Patrick Smith is acting like a lover scorned. If I have to read one more time how Essendon mismanaged the Sheedy/knights handover I'll scream!
> 
> This whole thing is starting to look ridiculous.  The "blackest day in sport" is starting to look more like a mild shade of beige.
> 
> Duckman



And a matter which has been under consideration, apparently, for about a year, and suddenly brought to the attention of the public via a news conference urgently called by two government ministers.
It must, of course, be just coincidence that such a diversion of the media occurred at a time when there was maximum heat on the government via the ICAC hearings and other stuff ups.

Now it seems to all be just a bit of nothing much at all.  Doesn't matter, I guess.  The purpose of diverting attention from the government has been served by the gullible press gallery, as always.


----------



## Sean K (14 February 2013)

Not one police investigation. 

Not ONE!

And yet,  the government ministers call a press conference to say it's diabolical. Just what are these two ministers trying to do? What are their motives? 

Is this another Pink Bat?


----------



## Logique (15 February 2013)

Starting to look a bit overblown isn't it. Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing, as it were. The alleged improprieties didn't seem to help the club much.  

The season will be well underway before the authorities conclude their investigations, so the news focus will shift back to actual footy.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (15 February 2013)

I think the ministers involved saw the enormous media fuss surrounding Armstrong and thought they would like to see if they could do the same.  Like when a kid comes to school and mixes Mentos with Diet Coke.  "Oh man!!! I want to do that too!!"


----------



## Julia (15 February 2013)

kennas said:


> Not one police investigation.
> 
> Not ONE!
> 
> And yet,  the government ministers call a press conference to say it's diabolical. Just what are these two ministers trying to do? What are their motives?



It was a 100% successful diversion from all the media attention on the multiple government stuff-ups.  Up until then, the ICAC enquiry was lead item in news and considerable focus directed to Conroy and Burke having accepted accommodation at the Obeid ski resort, thus extending the malodorous affair to Canberra rather than confining it to NSW.  Then the MRRT clearly being another abject failure.  Etc etc.

So why not call an urgent and important sounding news conference to deliver shocking information that will, they suggest, turn the sporting world upside down, such will be the massive ramifications/prosecutions etc.
Never mind that the investigation has been going on for a year or so.  

The press gallery, like the puppets they are, dutifully swarmed all over it, displacing what was formerly directing such unwanted attention on the government.

Looks like another pretty successful red herring by the government.


----------



## Sean K (15 February 2013)

Although I don't particularly like this 'weapon' character (I blame him for the soft tissue injuries) he must be absolutely devastated by this, if he's innocent. Suspended pending outcome of an investigation, that may take months, he must be sitting at home wondering WTF! Or, of course, he knows he's cocked up and he's hanging on a noose. All because the ministers needed to divert attention from their train wreck of a political party. Criminal.


----------



## Julia (15 February 2013)

kennas said:


> All because the ministers needed to divert attention from their train wreck of a political party. Criminal.



You think anyone in the government could care less?


----------



## Sean K (16 February 2013)

Mark Robinson interviewing James last night a good example of how low this idiot is. And, did he look in the mirror before stepping on to national television last night? Does he have a wife? Surely a loved one would not let you look like that in public let alone TV.


----------



## moXJO (16 February 2013)

Whats going on?
I know there are drugs in sports but when you make accusations like this you want to turn up to the party with more than an empty plate. They have basically vilified every sports person out there.  
Well at least Labor knows how to make friends.


----------



## Ves (16 February 2013)

kennas said:


> Mark Robinson interviewing James last night a good example of how low this idiot is. And, did he look in the mirror before stepping on to national television last night? Does he have a wife? Surely a loved one would not let you look like that in public let alone TV.




http://www.sportal.com.au/afl-opinion-display/karmas-a-bitch-bombers-222117

I basically  read articles like the one I linked above as _I initially made an accusation, and god damn, even if there is no evidence I am going to keep defiantly flinging mud until some of it sticks.  No matter what anyone says or what actual evidence comes out I'm right and you're wrong._  The media are like 12 year old kids, "yes, karma is a bitch" and hopefully one day some of these drama queens find out that karma doesn't discriminate between the hunter and the hunted.


----------



## Miss Hale (17 February 2013)

On Offsiders this morning Gerard Whateley, Caroline Wilson and the rugby bloke (sorry, don't know his name, have no interest in rugby) all agreed that this was a very serious issue and those that thought it was a beat up were very, very wrong :frown: (paraphrasing).  I suppose they all fell for the story hook, line and sinker and would look silly if they admitted they were wrong now


----------



## Sean K (17 February 2013)

Miss Hale said:


> On Offsiders this morning Gerard Whateley, Caroline Wilson and the rugby bloke (sorry, don't know his name, have no interest in rugby) all agreed that this was a very serious issue and those that thought it was a beat up were very, very wrong :frown: (paraphrasing).  I suppose they all fell for the story hook, line and sinker and would look silly if they admitted they were wrong now



I either think that they are very wrong, or they are very wrong, with the evidence presented thus far. Wilson is a token effort and the rugby guy was probably a rugby guy.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (18 February 2013)

How does a government minister and the ACC come out with "blackest day" and yet we are given no proof?  Test results are months off, aren't they?  I don't understand this.  Either banned substances were found to be in use or not.  Please explain!!


----------



## Duckman#72 (18 February 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> How does a government minister and the ACC come out with "blackest day" and yet we are given no proof?  Test results are months off, aren't they?  I don't understand this.  Either banned substances were found to be in use or not.  Please explain!!




Exactly. Plenty of people have worked on the principle of shooting first ask questions later. Essendon would be dirty that they "outed" themselves based on the (to date) non-existent evidence. 

Duckman


----------



## Macquack (18 February 2013)

Duckman#72 said:


> Exactly. Plenty of people have worked on the principle of shooting first ask questions later. *Essendon would be dirty that they "outed" themselves based on the (to date) non-existent evidence.*
> 
> Duckman




I disagree with you Duckman, to the extent that Essendon have "more information" than the public is allow to know.

It can be convenient for some parties to have knowledge of information, yet others (like the public) are not privy to the same information because of "ongoing investigations".


----------



## Duckman#72 (18 February 2013)

Macquack said:


> I disagree with you Duckman, to the extent that Essendon have "more information" than the public is allow to know.
> 
> It can be convenient for some parties to have knowledge of information, yet others (like the public) are not privy to the same information because of "ongoing investigations".




At the moment, regardless whether Essendon have or have not taken illegal supplements, they are the public face of "the blackest day in sport".  A number of clubs have publicly stated that their fitness departments run similar programs. Dank has been involved at over 6 different footy clubs around the country and strongly denies any wrongdoing. 

While Essendon may have more information than has been made public, if ACC and ASADA had any solid evidence you would have expected it to have come to light by now. In poker terms, Essendon threw their hand in way too soon. As a result it has been a PR disaster.

Duckman


----------



## Macquack (18 February 2013)

Fair enough Duckman, but what "information" did Essendon receive prior to the "big blow up" that I assume other clubs did not receive.

What was the "guts" of the "tip off" that Essendon recieved.


----------



## Duckman#72 (18 February 2013)

Macquack said:


> Fair enough Duckman, but what "information" did Essendon receive prior to the "big blow up" that I assume other clubs did not receive.
> 
> What was the "guts" of the "tip off" that Essendon recieved.




Who knows Macquack? That's why it is called a bluff.

For what it is worth, I think the Essendon officials were tipped off about "possible" breaches and  while they had every confidence, Essendon couldn't be sure there hadn't been any. They went public and have since found that while ASADA have concerns about Dank, they don't have any concrete evidence. 

Now we have a crazy 6 months of "investigations".

Duckman


----------



## Macquack (18 February 2013)

Why don't they just come out and say something like "the ACC and ASADA have concerns that we (Essendon) may have been using banned substances. This is obviously what happened, so why treat the public like imbeciles.


----------



## sptrawler (19 February 2013)

I really haven't been following this thread and didn't realise the emotions involved.
I would have thought it was obvious, drugs were involved, the way everyone beat the Freo Dockers.
Weve been robbed.


----------



## Sean K (21 February 2013)

http://m.theage.com.au/national/police-quizzed-star-on-his-payments-20130220-2erv4.html

$5000 for 'advice'?

If correct, hmm

Or, we're getting in to witch hunt material here.


----------



## chops_a_must (17 March 2013)

There's one club up here that's known to get on the roids.

Didn't stop us taking out the flag yesterday.

What a weekend!!!

UP THE RATTTTSSSSSS!!!!!!


----------



## Duckman#72 (22 March 2013)

Fantastic win after a tough couple of months.

Well done boys.

Duckman


----------



## Ves (22 March 2013)

Duckman#72 said:


> Fantastic win after a tough couple of months.
> 
> Well done boys.
> 
> Duckman


----------



## Sean K (23 March 2013)

Ves said:


>



 

Pretty chuffed with that effort, although Adelaide looked a little lost. 

We have been horrible against the Crows in Adelaide the past 10 years so extra impressive. Jobe, what a legend.


----------



## tech/a (23 March 2013)

Adelaide won't make the 8 this year.
I'm a crows supporter and I certainly don't see
The fire or a structure that they left last season with.

Tippett gone is a huge loss. The forward line has Walker not Franklin 
As the spear head. They need a multi pronged attack. The worst is
Yet to come for the crows.less than 50% wins is my prediction.

Thought I watched 2 mediocre sides crank up last might.


----------



## Duckman#72 (23 March 2013)

tech/a said:


> Adelaide won't make the 8 this year.
> I'm a crows supporter and I certainly don't see
> The fire or a structure that they left last season with.
> 
> ...




Adelaide over achieved last year on the back of one of the easier draws going around. Last year 2 games against port, gc, gws and melb would have helped most sides advance deep into finals. Don't forget, the Crows only just beat the Dons by 4 points in Adelaide, late last year when Essendon were in the middle if their death spiral. As much as I don't rate Tippett very highly, he was a good foil for Walker. Adelaide probably are mediocre.

Last year Essendon were everything from very good to abysmal. We'll have to wait and see how they go before we rate them. I think they looked a more balanced side this year. The addition of Kommer, Goddard and the continued improvement of Merrett, Howlett, Carlisle, Bellchambers and getting Dempsey back from injury suggests better results than last year. And how good is Watson? He is such an improved player!

Our midfield now looks much stronger, and our back line is also taking shape. The last piece of the puzzle is a functioning forward line. If we ever get one ...........look out! As for being mediocre, we beat one last night, so we must be rated higher than that!

Duckman


----------



## Sean K (23 March 2013)

Duckman#72 said:


> The last piece of the puzzle is a functioning forward line. If we ever get one ...........look out!
> 
> Duckman



Agree. I don't think Ryder is a CHF (better CHB) and I don't think anything about Hurley. Hurley looks like going down as the ultimate underachiever. 

Impressed with Howlett and Dempsey last night.


----------



## chops_a_must (23 March 2013)

kennas said:


> Agree. I don't think Ryder is a CHF (better CHB) and I don't think anything about Hurley. Hurley looks like going down as the ultimate underachiever.
> 
> Impressed with Howlett and Dempsey last night.




Kepler could help.


----------



## Logique (24 March 2013)

Bomber fans are probably fed up with the subject, 

and I don't see that many Essendon games, but on Friday I was left wondering, what is Michael Hurley's best position? On what I've seen (which admittedly isn't much) he isn't convincing as a CHF. 

He's so athletic, but where best to play him? He'd be a decent winger I reckon, but more inclined to go forward. He can mark and kick, so I guess it's the forward line somewhere.


----------



## Sean K (24 March 2013)

Logique said:


> and I don't see that many Essendon games, but on Friday I was left wondering, what is Michael Hurley's best position? On what I've seen (which admittedly isn't much) he isn't convincing as a CHF.
> 
> He's so athletic, but where best to play him? He'd be a decent winger I reckon, but more inclined to go forward. He can mark and kick, so I guess it's the forward line somewhere.



I think plays too short for key position. I think he's only 4cm taller than Jobe, but about the same as J Riewaldt. He's a lead up forward but hardly takes a mark. Being a good competitor just isn't enough. He either needs goals, or he needs to be up the ground getting possessions. He's probably played his best footy in the back line, but there's no spots left there now with Goddard joining the back 6. On a wing would be interesting, but I'm not sure he's got the tank.


----------



## Duckman#72 (24 March 2013)

kennas said:


> I think plays too short for key position. I think he's only 4cm taller than Jobe, but about the same as J Riewaldt. He's a lead up forward but hardly takes a mark. Being a good competitor just isn't enough. He either needs goals, or he needs to be up the ground getting possessions. He's probably played his best footy in the back line, but there's no spots left there now with Goddard joining the back 6. On a wing would be interesting, but I'm not sure he's got the tank.





I'm not sure what to think. He reminds me of Shane Watson. Everyone comments on his "massive potential" and his " wonderful athletic ability", but it doesn't always translate on the field. I think he would best in the back line and I've seen some of his best games played there (see st Kilda when he played on nick r). Unfortunately his position in the forward line is more due to the lack of other alternatives. Last year, if Hurley wasn't playing there, who is up there? Crameri and gumby were injured and Ryder isn't a proven goal kicker. Hopefully a daniher/crameri/Ryder forward lie works better. 

Duckman


----------



## Sean K (24 March 2013)

Duckman#72 said:


> I'm not sure what to think. He reminds me of Shane Watson. Everyone comments on his "massive potential" and his " wonderful athletic ability", but it doesn't always translate on the field. I think he would best in the back line and I've seen some of his best games played there (see st Kilda when he played on nick r). Unfortunately his position in the forward line is more due to the lack of other alternatives. Last year, if Hurley wasn't playing there, who is up there? Crameri and gumby were injured and Ryder isn't a proven goal kicker. Hopefully a daniher/crameri/Ryder forward lie works better.
> 
> Duckman



+1 on 'wonderful athletic ability' tag. Become sick of the commentators always saying how amazing he is and yet the results don't prove it. He's a dud so far. It's unbelievable that the club forked out gazillions for a long term contract on 'potential'. So far, he's still not worth a first year player. 

Last night, in a winning team, he scored 55 Super Coach points. Kommer had 70. Myers 91.


----------



## Sean K (4 April 2013)

Looking forward to beating the hoodoo on Sat night!!


----------



## Miss Hale (5 April 2013)

kennas said:


> Looking forward to beating the hoodoo on Sat night!!




Danger game for the Dons  Looking forward to Melborne playing a blinder like they did last year 

(Disclosure, Hawthorn supporter...I will go away now : )


----------



## Sean K (5 April 2013)

Miss Hale said:


> Danger game for the Dons  Looking forward to Melborne playing a blinder like they did last year
> 
> (Disclosure, Hawthorn supporter...I will go away now : )



I understand.

You and Dermie will never forgive us beating the crap out of you in the 80's.


----------



## Sean K (7 April 2013)

Well, that was embarrassing Melbourne. Shocking effort. I don't think Essendon should take any credit for those four points. A good training run anyway. Neeld on thin ice.


----------



## Miss Hale (7 April 2013)

kennas said:


> Well, that was embarrassing Melbourne. Shocking effort. I don't think Essendon should take any credit for those four points. A good training run anyway. Neeld on thin ice.




Melbourne were abysmal weren't they?   I didn't see last week's game so thought much of the post match commentary may have been exaggerated, but after last night...blimey!  How low can you go? 

Good percentage booster for Essendon which may come in handy later in the year.


----------



## Duckman#72 (10 April 2013)

Miss Hale said:


> Melbourne were abysmal weren't they?   I didn't see last week's game so thought much of the post match commentary may have been exaggerated, but after last night...blimey!  How low can you go?
> 
> Good percentage booster for Essendon which may come in handy later in the year.




Interesting game on Friday. Really see where the boys are at. Carn the bombers.

Duckman


----------



## Miss Hale (11 April 2013)

More drama for the Bombers, you have my sympathy (no sarcasm intended).  I hope Hird doesn't stand down just because that Dank bloke has made allegations about him.  I don't want to see this whole drugs thing derail the 2013 season.  I just want this to go away and for Melbourne to start being competative and we can all enjoy the footy without all this crap :frown:


----------



## Duckman#72 (11 April 2013)

Miss Hale said:


> More drama for the Bombers, you have my sympathy (no sarcasm intended).  I hope Hird doesn't stand down just because that Dank bloke has made allegations about him.  I don't want to see this whole drugs thing derail the 2013 season.  I just want this to go away and for Melbourne to start being competative and we can all enjoy the footy without all this crap :frown:




Yes I think most people don't want to believe that Hirdy has taken illegal substances. 

Dank's statements over the past 2 months have been contradictory. One moment he is saying that nothing he gave was illegal, the next minute he admits to injecting illegal supplements. Up until now there had been very little noise from whistleblowers over the Bombers supplement regime. From the outside world it was looking relatively clean for the Bombers, but who would have thought the whistleblower would be Dank himself! 

Makes you wonder why Dank would come out now? Let's assume it is true. Have ASADA questioned him, and he has admitted it and is just making public his admission. 

Dank would have to know how big this story would be. Even people who hate Hirdy, like him .  Mud sticks and I hope this isn't true for Hirdy's sake. If Dank's career wasn't trashed before, it certainly will be now - it is footballs version of a suicide bomber. Even if Hirdy is guilty, I doubt many football people will take delight over his demise.    

Duckman


----------



## Knobby22 (11 April 2013)

Looks like Hirdy's vainer than we thought. Taking drugs to make him looked tanned and hopefully age slower. I thought he was smarter than that to accept such flim flam. And Bomber Thompson is getting off likely at present imo.


----------



## Trembling Hand (11 April 2013)

Clearly the organisation of Essendon has brought the game into disrepute and need to be kicked out for 2 years. Then have the all the coaching staff and management positions cut and ran by the AFL for a further 5 years. I feel for the players ONLY. Hird has, at best, been way out of his league. Clearly there is something rotten in that place.


----------



## Knobby22 (11 April 2013)

I think Danny Corcoran smells as he is deeply involved and hasn't a good history. 

(just an opinion).


----------



## MrBurns (11 April 2013)

They've now released text messages that put Hird right in it, don't know how he can get out of this now.

Great shame, he is one of the VFL's greatest players..........ever.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-04-...7s-involvement-in-supplements-program/4624050


----------



## Miss Hale (11 April 2013)

MrBurns said:


> They've now released text messages that put Hird right in it, don't know how he can get out of this now.
> 
> Great shame, he is one of the VFL's greatest players..........ever.
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-04-...7s-involvement-in-supplements-program/4624050




I didn't see anything in those text messages that was incriminating  He referred to the supplement programme which he has never denied knowing about, there is no mention of anything illegal.

Kudos for Essendon for not bowing to the baying of the media who were all saying Hird must stand down.  Love it when all those sanctimonious fools are wrong 

(Can't believe I'm sticking up for the Bombers  )


----------



## MrBurns (11 April 2013)

Miss Hale said:


> I didn't see anything in those text messages that was incriminating  He referred to the supplement programme which he has never denied knowing about, there is no mention of anything illegal.
> 
> Kudos for Essendon for not bowing to the baying of the media who were all saying Hird must stand down.  Love it when all those sanctimonious fools are wrong
> 
> (Can't believe I'm sticking up for the Bombers  )




I thought it was fairly incriminating, he shouldn't step down regardless until something's proven.


----------



## Duckman#72 (11 April 2013)

Miss Hale said:


> I didn't see anything in those text messages that was incriminating  He referred to the supplement programme which he has never denied knowing about, there is no mention of anything illegal.
> 
> Kudos for Essendon for not bowing to the baying of the media who were all saying Hird must stand down.  Love it when all those sanctimonious fools are wrong
> 
> (Can't believe I'm sticking up for the Bombers  )




Completely agree Miss Hale. I've obviously been following this closely since it blew up in Feb and nothing contradictory has come out today.

At no stage has Essendon or Hird denied having any involvement with a supplements program at the club.  They expressed complete surprise, concern and shock at the thought their program may have been in breach of the WADA regulations. To me this suggest they were very concious of working within the guidelines of ASADA.

The fact that Hird and Dank were texting each other regarding the apparent results of the supplement program on the players seems highly normal. Dank was open with what he told Hird he was giving them (in the texts) - and those supplements have been cleared.

The main problem for Hird is trying to defend the accusation that he has been injected with a drug that would be illegal for his players. 

Duckman


----------



## Miss Hale (11 April 2013)

Duckman#72 said:


> The main problem for Hird is trying to defend the accusation that he has been injected with a drug that would be illegal for his players.
> 
> Duckman




From his response today I think he can challenge that accusation but is not in a position to do so (because of the ongoing investigation).  The fact that Essendon have not made him stand down suggests that he is in the clear.  I may be wrong but that is my feeling based on what I heard today. 

I'm no big fan of Hird but I'm just so sick of this whole drug thing which I think is trashing our game and people's reputations for the sake of a few journalists getting a good story and the government trying to look like they are 'doing something'.  

(Rant, rant, rant....)


----------



## Whiskers (12 April 2013)

I'm not a big AFL fan, well, not since Brisbane fell off the top, but what happened to the days of the coach and captain being able to psyche the players up a level or two with their charisma, passion and intelligent management of their skills and a fresh cut orange at half time?  Reign on King Wally! 

Do all these drugs really give that much better performance in the long run, or just burn out players sooner?

Maybe, that's part of the reason why some sports are loosing their appeal, the players are more robotic and physical with less intelligent use of skillful moves.


----------



## Logique (12 April 2013)

Nothing but a witch hunt, started by the Feds. I hope Essendon stand by James Hird, to the bitter end if need be. This affects all of us.

From a Swans fan.


----------



## chops_a_must (12 April 2013)

Whiskers said:


> I'm not a big AFL fan, well, not since Brisbane fell off the top, but what happened to the days of the coach and captain being able to psyche the players up a level or two with their charisma, passion and intelligent management of their skills and a fresh cut orange at half time?  Reign on King Wally!
> 
> Do all these drugs really give that much better performance in the long run, or just burn out players sooner?
> 
> Maybe, that's part of the reason why some sports are loosing their appeal, the players are more robotic and physical with less intelligent use of skillful moves.




Hate to break it to you, but Brisbane were perhaps one of the worst clubs for this kind of stuff during the period.

They were heavily involved with a bloke by the name of Doc Whiteside. Most of the athletes that have been pinged in WA have had links with him, and I'm led to believe he also got involved with West Coast in 03 as well.


----------



## Trembling Hand (12 April 2013)

So hold on......

Everyone says that Dank was no good and deserved to be sacked. Injecting young players with substances that they didn't know what they were.............. Correct?

But Hird was fully aware of his work and congratulating him with thanks but thats fine...


----------



## Gringotts Bank (12 April 2013)

Whiskers said:


> I'm not a big AFL fan, well, not since Brisbane fell off the top, but what happened to the days of the coach and captain being able to psyche the players up a level or two with their charisma, passion and intelligent management of their skills and a fresh cut orange at half time?  Reign on King Wally!
> 
> Do all these drugs really give that much better performance in the long run, or just burn out players sooner?
> 
> Maybe, that's part of the reason why some sports are loosing their appeal, the players are more robotic and physical with less intelligent use of skillful moves.




Good points.  I don't think the supplements they took would be beneficial or harmful, just a waste of time and resources that could have gone into doing the basics.


----------



## Trembling Hand (12 April 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Good points.  I don't think the supplements they took would be beneficial or harmful, just a waste of time and resources that could have gone into doing the basics.




You sure about that. My bet is they will be on the WADA banned list as soon as the testing is finished.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (12 April 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> You sure about that. My bet is they will be on the WADA banned list as soon as the testing is finished.




I'm thinking there might be a 'grey zone' for the supplements they were taking.  Maybe not banned stuff, but just questionable (like the pig's brain extract or whatever it was!).  But we will find out in August.


----------



## Sean K (12 April 2013)

Once again Caroline Wilson's sensationalistic reporting is just disgusting.

Why aren't the ALP trying to put a stop to that?


----------



## Sean K (12 April 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> So hold on......
> 
> Everyone says that Dank was no good and deserved to be sacked. Injecting young players with substances that they didn't know what they were.............. Correct?
> 
> But Hird was fully aware of his work and congratulating him with thanks but thats fine...



Yeah, there's something else going on I think TH. Robinson was pretty quickly stood down too, so I'm suss on something. 

Can't believe it's Hird though.

Can't believe he had the injections even if they were kosher too though...


----------



## Ves (12 April 2013)

kennas said:


> Once again Caroline Wilson's sensationalistic reporting is just disgusting.
> 
> Why aren't the ALP trying to put a stop to that?



Caroline "Greyhound" Wilson - she continues to live on hope that she will eventually catch that mythical "rabbit" of a story that will send her into journalism folklore.

Mark "I drink too much and write stuff" Robinson.  Same boat, but he usually sees the bottom of the bottle before he does anything remotely successful in journalism.

The ALP won't stop them because it's a bloody good distraction from the election coverage.


----------



## Sean K (12 April 2013)

Ves said:


> Mark "I drink too much and write stuff" Robinson.  Same boat, but he usually sees the bottom of the bottle before he does anything remotely successful in journalism.



Yep, I've nearly turned off AFL 360 because of him, but Gerard Whateley keeps me watching. How Robinson holds down his position is beyond me. Imagine if he wasn't an Essendon supporter.


----------



## MrBurns (12 April 2013)

Danks sounded like he was defending Hird tonight, Andrew Dimetriou is a waste of space, $2M PA ? why ?


----------



## lenny (12 April 2013)

This there any MCC members here on ASF?


----------



## MrBurns (12 April 2013)

lenny said:


> This there any MCC members here on ASF?




My son let his lapse, trying to get it back now.........


----------



## Ves (12 April 2013)

kennas said:


> Yep, I've nearly turned off AFL 360 because of him, but Gerard Whateley keeps me watching. How Robinson holds down his position is beyond me. Imagine if he wasn't an Essendon supporter.



I think Whateley is worse.   He's way too (melo)-dramatic, has a touch of pompousness as if he is trying to sound intellectual.   I swear he's gay.   I don't even care if that's politically incorrect. I don't watch that show any more. It's two guys who you can tell haven't played much, if any, football in their lives.


----------



## Ves (12 April 2013)

MrBurns said:


> My son let his lapse, trying to get it back now.........



Damn, that's a long bloody wait if you can't get it back.


----------



## Sean K (12 April 2013)

lenny said:


> This there any MCC members here on ASF?



Of course


----------



## Sean K (12 April 2013)

Ves said:


> I think Whateley is worse.   He's way too (melo)-dramatic, has a touch of pompousness as if he is trying to sound intellectual.   I swear he's gay.   I don't even care if that's politically incorrect. I don't watch that show any more. It's two guys who you can tell haven't played much, if any, football in their lives.



Well, I'm a Whateley fan. Anyone who can get on TV with a nose like that has my support.


----------



## chops_a_must (12 April 2013)

Ves said:


> I think Whateley is worse.   He's way too (melo)-dramatic, has a touch of pompousness as if he is trying to sound intellectual.   I swear he's gay.   I don't even care if that's politically incorrect. I don't watch that show any more. It's two guys who you can tell haven't played much, if any, football in their lives.




Nah.

He and Pyne are just in the running for Australia's biggest Weiner.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (12 April 2013)

Got to hand it to Hird.  In his pre-game interview, cool as a cucumber.  He will be kicking himself for taking those weird supplements and getting caught up in the crap.  Big mistake and he will never go down that path again.  If he can keep his cool, what a brilliant example that will be to his players.

How many other coaches would have their lower lip trembling if they were in the same position?  Plenty of tough AFL men can't handle social pressure, but it seems Hird can.  Neeld is at the opposite end of the spectrum, and that's why none of his players respect him enough to perform.  It's about respect, coaching.


----------



## Miss Hale (12 April 2013)

Ves said:


> Caroline "Greyhound" Wilson - she continues to live on hope that she will eventually catch that mythical "rabbit" of a story that will send her into journalism folklore.
> 
> Mark "I drink too much and write stuff" Robinson.  Same boat, but he usually sees the bottom of the bottle before he does anything remotely successful in journalism.
> 
> The ALP won't stop them because it's a bloody good distraction from the election coverage.




Patrick Smith is another one that gets on my goat.  He and Wilson said Hird should stand down right at the beginning of all this and they were practically salivating when the latest 'revelations' came out and of course frantically renewed their calls of 'Hird MUST stand down', but he didn't  

I'm really dissapointed with a lot of the ex-footballers who are now commentaters etc. who seem to have become all PC all of a sudden, pathetic.  Cam Mooney on SEN and Leigh Matthews on Channel 7 tonight stood up for Hirdy but they are in the minority.

Anyway, good hard fought win by the Bombers tonight (unfortunately I tipped the Dockers  )


----------



## Knobby22 (13 April 2013)

Great win by the Bombers. They look so much better this year. Maybe the lack of pig's brain is doing them good. I tipped against them in the first week but tipped with them this week.

Go Bombers!


----------



## Logique (13 April 2013)

Great match, an inspiring win by Essendon. That's the way to send a message to the critics.


----------



## lenny (13 April 2013)

Miss Hale said:


> I'm really dissapointed with a lot of the ex-footballers who are now commentaters etc. who seem to have become all PC all of a sudden, pathetic.  Cam Mooney on SEN and Leigh Matthews on Channel 7 tonight stood up for Hirdy but they are in the minority.




Just goes to show some people will say anthing for a buck, I hope hirdy sticks it up them all.

Great win last night, not sure how Cale Hookers still getting a game gee he makes me nervous when he gets the ball.

Go Bombers


----------



## IFocus (13 April 2013)

That was a really big win last night against the odds, Vic teams don't travel well to WA and for Essendon to get a win with a week like that was exceptional.


I think Hird is gone rightly or wrongly just to much momentum building against him.


----------



## banco (14 April 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Good points.  I don't think the supplements they took would be beneficial or harmful, just a waste of time and resources that could have gone into doing the basics.




I think you're being a little naive.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (14 April 2013)

banco said:


> I think you're being a little naive.




I don't think any team nowadays would risk using banned substances.  The penalties would not be worth it for them.

Risk:Reward.  

*Reward* - possibly a 1% enhancement in performance. 
*Risk* - Club banned from the competition for a year.  Losing member base, massive stress through media pressure, careers lost, legal costs, financial cost and other untold damages.+++

Do you think a whole team would be happy to take that risk?

On another topic....Hird has made a number of huge mistakes.  Employing Dank was only one of them.  Hird is not nearly as smart as people give him credit for.  But he does have good character.  And that will get him through.  He'd better learn from his mistakes, though.


----------



## Trembling Hand (14 April 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Do you think a whole team would be happy to take that risk?




Hey............. ?


----------



## Gringotts Bank (14 April 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> Hey............. ?
> 
> View attachment 51770




Cyclists are a very different breed.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling

The list is staggering in its length.

The AFL is spotless in comparison.  Different beast.

I'll concede that R:R is not the best way to look at this scenario.  It's a cultural thing.


----------



## Trembling Hand (14 April 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> The AFL is spotless in comparison.




Like someone else said you are being naive.


----------



## Ves (14 April 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> Like someone else said you are being naive.



Can you offer any proof that the AFL has a drug problem on the same level as cycling?


----------



## Miss Hale (14 April 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> Hey............. ?
> 
> View attachment 51770




Isn't this exactly why other sports are now more careful?

If Essendon are doing stuff that is illegal (in terms of WADA, the AFL etc.) then most likely other clubs are too.  What are the AFL going to do, ban every clubs players and coaches?


----------



## Trembling Hand (14 April 2013)

Ves said:


> Can you offer any proof that the AFL has a drug problem on the same level as cycling?




When Nathan Brown broke he's leg he has stated that he was offered many "short cuts" to recovery. Of course I have no proof that I know any person has taken anything. But I have been around some of these dodgy dudes through my involvement as a pro in another sport 15 years ago. I can say with certainty that I have been offered doping products back then by some of the people who are now "conditioning consultants". And there was a hell of a lot less at stake back then. $$$$$$


----------



## Trembling Hand (14 April 2013)

Miss Hale said:


> Isn't this exactly why other sports are now more careful?
> 
> If Essendon are doing stuff that is illegal (in terms of WADA, the AFL etc.) then most likely other clubs are too.  What are the AFL going to do, ban every clubs players and coaches?




I don't know the answer to that. But the contradiction in who is being demonised here, to me, is gob smacking. Dank and the other dude (Robinson?) were sacked because they were putting young impressionable kids in a situation that was very very questionable. Now it was first sold as "they had gone rouge" but the txts out this week show that Hird was fully aware about what was going on. 

Yet its all about how he has a good bloke Blah Blah. Something is up here and I don't give a toss about how respectable anyone _was_. Thats is exactly the kind of environment that got Lance Armstong in the position to cheat bully and get away with something that at the time seemed inconceivable. And I've seen it to a lesser degree with coaches in other sports. Its a very dangerous situation that requires much scepticism. IMO


----------



## lenny (14 April 2013)

Even *IF* Hirdy has taken banned substances I believe the WADA rules are only relevant to players (which leaves hird in the clear).

 And in regard to the Essendon players doping scandal even Danks stance is that the substances used by the Essendon players haven't breached the WADA code.

Is there more info we don't know or is this just a media beat up.?


----------



## Trembling Hand (14 April 2013)

lenny said:


> Even *IF* Hirdy has taken banned substances I believe the WADA rules are only relevant to players (which leaves hird in the clear).



Yeah I don't think anyone except the media cares about that.


lenny said:


> And in regard to the Essendon players doping scandal even Danks stance is that the substances used by the Essendon players haven't breached the WADA code.
> 
> Is there more info we don't know or is this just a media beat up.?



There is info this week, though who knows how reliable, that they have been using substances that have not been approved for therapeutic use. *IF* that is the case then that does breach WADA code. You cannot take anything on the banned list OR anything that is still in testing phase ie not approved for human use.


----------



## Duckman#72 (14 April 2013)

IFocus said:


> I think Hird is gone rightly or wrongly just to much momentum building against him.




Fair go IFocus!  You of all people should be able to see that Hirdy isn't "gone". For the past three years you have been doggedly defending Gillard, Slipper and Thompson, and despite all the momentum and allogations against them, they firmly remain in charge of Australia's future. Surely in comparison, Hirdy can still coach a footy team.

Let's assume Hirdy approved a supplements program, administered by a "sports scientist" employed by the club with the approval and sign off by the long standing club doctor, on the basis the program a) didn't harm the players, and b) was within the guidelines of the AFL and WADA. 

What has Hirdy done wrong? Dank is still adamant that he has done nothing wrong within WADA guidelines. Hirdy might have placed excessive trust in Danks, but if his brief was "within WADA guidelines" does Hirdy have to ge second opinions?

Caroline Wilson and Patrick Smith need to get over themselves. Too full of their own importance to be able to see clearly. 

Duckman


----------



## prawn_86 (14 April 2013)

Duckman#72 said:


> Caroline Wilson and Patrick Smith need to get over themselves. Too full of their own importance to be able to see clearly.




Totally agree. Journalists looking for a story and creating a huge beat up and finding someone who cannot speak out 'guilty'. If he is cleared I bet Caroline Wilson will be the first one to say what a champion he is etc etc without issuing the slightest apology. Amazing how journalists can call for someones head, with no evidence, and then if they are wrong so be it. Almost like being a stock analyst


----------



## Logique (15 April 2013)

Duckman#72 said:


> .....Caroline Wilson and Patrick Smith need to get over themselves. Too full of their own importance to be able to see clearly.
> Duckman



Should be an interesting Footy Classified tonight. Caroline is riding Hirdy hard, it's not a good look from her.  Another one is Andrew Demetriou. The AFL pays him $2M a year, and the best he can do is "..Hird should think about stepping down..".

Biting the hand that feeds, both of them.


----------



## prawn_86 (15 April 2013)

Logique said:


> Should be an interesting Footy Classified tonight. Caroline is riding Hirdy hard, it's not a good look from her.  Another one is Andrew Demetriou. The AFL pays him $2M a year, and the best he can do is "..Hird should think about stepping down..".
> 
> Biting the hand that feeds, both of them.




Yep, more and more talk is about 'bringing the game into disrepute' and how action may be taken on that front. What about journalists brining the game into disrepute? They are the only ones doing it at the moment, if no one commented on the ongoing investigation then we wouldnt have this issue completely blown out of proportion.


----------



## chops_a_must (15 April 2013)

I don't really see the difference to the Ben Cousins case to be honest.


----------



## Duckman#72 (15 April 2013)

chops_a_must said:


> I don't really see the difference to the Ben Cousins case to be honest.





It is slightly different to Ben Cousins as we are talking about the use or non-use of recreation/illegal substances with Ben. There is no grey area.  Whereas the substances the EFC players took may or may not have been illegal. We are still waiting. 

One thing I do agree with Caroline Wilson is that Demetriou is angry that the AFL did not act earlier with regards to supplements and "sports scientists". He stated very publicly last year that he was concerned about the sports departments overiding the club doctors and the impact that these very expensive departments were having on each team and the AFL in general.  However it just ended there - there were no guidelines, inquiries, reviews etc.

When it comes down to it, what Hird and the EFC tried to do is gain a competitive advantage over the other teams by having a superior sports science department. According to Hird - Dank and Robinson were to implement the program within the guidelines provided by WADA. Much has been made by the commentators about "Hird being fully involved in the program", "Hird was being kept up to date with everything Dank did" etc. However that in itself is not evidence that Hird knowingly approved a noncomplying program.

In regards to bringing the game into disrepute, how guilty is Hird? I admit Simon Goodwin's texts do not make fantastic reading.   

Hirdy seems very sure of his position.

Cheers
Duckman


----------



## nomore4s (15 April 2013)

Essendon have essentially had the wool pulled over their eyes by a modern day snake oil salesman. IMO Danks is nothing more then a conman offering the world with new you beaut methods and drugs but delivering very little and Essendon gave him the keys to the safe.

That Essendon aren't 100% certain of what was actually injected into their players is an issue, especially considering Danks apparently blew the budget by close to $100k.

Essendon wanted to push the boundaries and sail as close to the wind as possible in an effort to fast track development and gain an advantage. But they did so by cutting corners and letting people like Dank have too much control, essentially they took risks and are now paying the price for that. Any sort of research would have uncovered Danks methods as borderline considering Gold Coast and Cronulla had both sacked him and had issues with him before Essendon hired him.

With clubs willing to pay so much money to sports scientist and trainers like Danks and Robinson they really need to be cautious with the amount of freedom they give them. People will be willing to push the boundaries to get quick results and get the monetary and career rewards for it without actually really caring about the long-term welfare of the players. The long term effects of some of these drugs is really unknown, and I would argue the short term effects are relatively unknown.

I feel for the players as they are the innocent party but the Essendon hierarchy has brought a lot of this on themselves.


----------



## Duckman#72 (21 April 2013)

Another good win tonight. Well done boys. Even big gumby managed a few goals.

Felt sorry for Goddard.

Duckman


----------



## Sean K (21 April 2013)

Duckman#72 said:


> Another good win tonight. Well done boys. Even big gumby managed a few goals.
> 
> Felt sorry for Goddard.
> 
> Duckman



Looking forward to watching the game, again. 

St Kilda window well and truly closed. 

Goddard will sleep well tonight.


----------



## Logique (21 April 2013)

Tim Lane's piece is in the Age on 21 April is a disgrace, and I'd question his motivations. Is Tim saying it's immoral to support James Hird, or am I reading it wrong? There's a thing called the presumption of innocence Tim, that's the law.



> Standing by Hird is natural, but what if he were not one of us? - April 21, 2013
> 
> ..This is a country which prides itself on its own high standards of sporting morality and expects no less from other nations. We are the first to ridicule nations and sports administrations seen to offer a hint of succour to those facing doping allegations.
> 
> ...


----------



## Miss Hale (22 April 2013)

kennas said:


> Looking forward to watching the game, again.
> 
> St Kilda window well and truly closed.
> 
> Goddard will sleep well tonight.




What do people make of Goddard's display of emotion in the post match interview with Cam Mooney, crocodile tears or genuinely upset?  Can't work the guy out, he chose to leave the Saints so why all the upset?


----------



## Gringotts Bank (22 April 2013)

Miss Hale said:


> What do people make of Goddard's display of emotion in the post match interview with Cam Mooney, crocodile tears or genuinely upset?  Can't work the guy out, he chose to leave the Saints so why all the upset?




Probably some regret.  His mates at Essendon are probably not as tight with him as the Saints were.  The scuffle probably reminded him of that.  He went for the $$ and forgot about how much he enjoyed their company.


----------



## Logique (22 April 2013)

Miss Hale said:


> What do people make of Goddard's display of emotion in the post match interview with Cam Mooney, crocodile tears or genuinely upset?  Can't work the guy out, he chose to leave the Saints so why all the upset?



He likes to run around pointing the finger like he's the on-field coach. Perhaps this isn't as accepted at Essendon. Have a look at the club captain, that's an on-field leader.
From a Swans fan.


----------



## Ves (22 April 2013)

Goddard is in the leadership group at Essendon


----------



## Duckman#72 (22 April 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Probably some regret.  His mates at Essendon are probably not as tight with him as the Saints were.  The scuffle probably reminded him of that.  He went for the $$ and forgot about how much he enjoyed their company.




The bloke played 10 years with St Kilda, he was a No 1 draft pick for them and was a favourite son at the club. He almost singlehandedly dragged them to an upset grand final win. Yes he left St Kilda for more money....but also more career certainty (extra no of years) and also the likelihood of playing finals.  

He never had a falling out with the club.  When you invest that much time, I think it is normal to carry some genuine feelings for a previous club and teammates. It would have been a very emotional game for him. I just see, read and hear some of the bile and venom directed at Goddard from Saints fans and football followers who didn't like his decision!  Talk about emotional!!  

What are people thinking about ANZAC Day? I'd love to see the Bombers jag one, but we have a few injuries and reports. Do they play Joe Daniher?

Duckman


----------



## Sean K (22 April 2013)

Duckman#72 said:


> What are people thinking about ANZAC Day? I'd love to see the Bombers jag one, but we have a few injuries and reports. Do they play Joe Daniher?
> 
> Duckman



I think we're a chance. Not sure if it's a good first game for Joe.


----------



## Duckman#72 (22 April 2013)

kennas said:


> I think we're a chance. Not sure if it's a good first game for Joe.




Yes it will be interesting to see if Fletcher, Crameri and Hurley are available. Hurley would miss I expect.

It will be a good test for our midfield and defenders. Up until this point both groups have performed very well.

Our forward line has been helped by goal scoring midfielders (Howlett and Watson in particular). Going into the game with Crameri and Gumbleton as the two key forwards is REAL hit or miss.

The magpies haven't been setting the world on fire although they would have enjoyed the win over the Tigs last week. Hope it is a good game (ie Essendon open up a 5 goal lead by quarter time, dominate the second, completely ruin the game as a contest in the third, and then grind them into the dirt in the fourth).      

Duckman


----------



## chops_a_must (23 April 2013)

Essendon will be in a whole heap of trouble as explained by TH above and WADA overnight...


----------



## Miss Hale (23 April 2013)

Bombers riding the crest of a wave at the moment, I think they can beat Collingwood on Thursday.  I would bring in Daniher if you need him and he is ready, otherwise leave out.  Big match or less important match is irrelevant IMO.


----------



## Sean K (25 April 2013)

Was closer than it looked in the end. Very good win, but Pies a little off their game.


----------



## Ves (25 April 2013)

kennas said:


> Was closer than it looked in the end. Very good win, but Pies a little off their game.



Collingwood have too many blokes who are one-way runners (Swan, Sidebottom and a lot of their small forwards) to win a flag.  They're great with the ball and when their team is attacking, but when they need to defend they go missing.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (25 April 2013)

from the interweb.... Yahoo news.

The Essendon Bombers have confessed to the World Anti-Doping Agency that some members of the squad took the banned substance AOD-9604 just last year, reports News Ltd.

The club say they went ahead using the anti-obesity drug after receiving a document from WADA approving its use. The document in question was supplied to club doctors by now infamous sports scientist Stephen Dank, however the Bombers do not have a copy of it.
Dank is believed to have the document, but has been dodging media on the topic.

The names of those who took the substance have not been released, but it is understood that around six players were involved in the supplements program which sparked the drugs investigation in the AFL.

ASADA has conducted interviews with members of the Essendon support staff, including coach James Hird, with player interviews to get underway soon.

Because he is no longer employed by Essendon, Dank is not required to speak with ASADA investigators, and so he is yet to do so.

"The club has launched an AFL-ASADA investigation and an internal review and we will not be commenting until the investigations are completed," an Essendon official told News Ltd.

AOD-9604 is a synthetic substance part of human growth hormone used to target fat deposits. It is banned under the S0 category, as a drug that is not approved for human use.

Players found to have taken AOD-9604 could find themselves facing a two-year ban, unless they claim ‘exceptional circumstances’ as a defence.


----------



## lenny (26 April 2013)

What a great win against the PIES!


Hopefully we can see Joey Daniher take the field in the ones against GWS next week.

Go Bombers


----------



## nomore4s (26 April 2013)

lenny said:


> What a great win against the PIES!
> 
> 
> Hopefully we can see Joey Daniher take the field in the ones against GWS next week.
> ...




Is he even close? Anyone know how he is going in the VFL?


----------



## Sean K (26 April 2013)

nomore4s said:


> Is he even close? Anyone know how he is going in the VFL?



Pretty well. Taking marks, kicking goals.

http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/2013-04-20/daniher-stands-out-in-dons-loss


----------



## IFocus (26 April 2013)

Good game thought Dons had it most of the way, Dons unbelievable considering what's happening in the back ground but as pointed out to me today Dons were top of the ladder round 10 last year.

As long as they can contain injuries they look good.


----------



## Miss Hale (28 April 2013)

Essendon super impressive atm.  I'm changing my mind about all this drug business - lock 'em all up and throw away the key :frown:


----------



## Sean K (4 May 2013)

Well done GWS, nice showing.

Now we just need to fit in: Hurley, Carlisle, Fletcher, Winderlich, Heppell and Ryder.  

Good inclusions for Geelong next week.


----------



## Duckman#72 (4 May 2013)

kennas said:


> Well done GWS, nice showing.
> 
> Now we just need to fit in: Hurley, Carlisle, Fletcher, Winderlich, Heppell and Ryder.
> 
> Good inclusions for Geelong next week.




GWS played very well. 

Pears first to make way. He has really dropped off the pace.

Duckman


----------



## lenny (6 May 2013)

Duckman#72 said:


> GWS played very well.
> 
> Duckman




They certainly did!

I went to the game and came away very impressed with GWS, alot of big kids who can also run like the wind.

They (GWS) can only seem to play 2 or 3 quarters atm but watch out in next few years, much better kids then GCS imo.

For us (the dons) we wont know the significance of this game till later in the season to see if it can reduce a flat spot/fade out in the middle of the season similar to last couple of seasons.

With Jobe spending alot of time resting up forward against gws and Heath Hocking sub and the other 5 or so who were rested we should be pretty fresh for Geelong this week.

Go Bombers


----------



## Duckman#72 (9 May 2013)

Hope tomorrow nights game is a cracker - ending with a Bomber victory. 

On paper the ins make the side strong.  

Carn the Dons!

Duckman


----------



## Duckman#72 (11 May 2013)

What did we learn from last night's game?

Firstly, the positive. Such is the development of Essendon that they aren't out of their depth in the company of a team like Geelong.  Based on that game, Essendon would realistically fancy themselves against any team in the competition. The effort that the Bombers displayed was very commendable. It was one of those games where clearances, tackles and shots on goal were all KPI's won by the losing side. 

Now for the negatives. We seemed very "top heavy" last night. I've said it before and I'll repeat today. Crameri, Gumbleton and Hurley are very hit and miss as forwards. It was a shame Davey went off injured, but we were exposed for a lack of dangerous small forwards. With Winderlich not having an impact, we also badly missed the attacking creativity of Stanton and Dempsey's run and carry. Geelong played much smarter football and seemed to have so many more people at the feet of marking contests. Players like Stokes, Christensen and Selwood roved beautifully.

The game was played in two halves and Geelong applied the pressure like no other team can. Essendon just shut up shop. Halfway through the second quarter Essendon started the little chip passes, constantly going backwards and big kicks to congested packs. 

Just a couple of question marks. I wonder how big Joe Daniher is going to fit into the structure when looking at that game. We still had Ryder on the sidelines. As much as teams full of "tall timber" are extremely hard to play against, it is my experience that teams full of "tall timber" are much more inconsistent and if they are having an "off night" smaller, more nimble and skillful players expose their weaknesses.

I just wonder why Essendon didn't do more to try and stop Johnson when he started to have an impact on the game in the 3rd quarter. Would have been worth a try. Next time Essendon need to continue playing football on their own terms. After half time the Bombers played the football that geelong wanted them to. They need to learn from that.  

All in all a very good effort. It was a strange game in that it could have been much closer, but you also sensed that Geelong could have been front by a lot more.  

Duckman


----------



## Sean K (11 May 2013)

I think last night came down to simple momentum. If a couple of those points had been goals I think the score line would have been much different. Missed opportunities killed us.

Yes, Johnson should have been managed better but Hocking went to Selwood. Maybe they should have put Winderlich on him to get him into the game.

Leaving out Ryder? Should have played him instead of Hooker perhaps, Gumby probably did deserve his spot. 

What's happened to Howlett? The first few games he was on absolute fire and looked to be breaking out. Back to being mediocre. 

Hurley his usual self. Why we paid so much to tie him up for 5 years is just beyond me. Sure he tries hard, but he's too small for a key forward. He's a lemon.

Melksham not developing that much, maybe he needs to be the extra small defender while Heppell goes on the ball and give Hibberd a go through the middle, he's a gem.

Myers threatens to do anything. 

Zaha has been managed back in extremely well. Back to B&F form. Will give Jobe a run for his money this year.

Carlisle in All Australian contention. 

I'm very happy to have kept Kommer in my Supercoach team. One out of the blue.

All up, gee Geelong look good for another Grand Final.

But, overall Supercoach tally was 1666 to 1636 so they're not that far in front.


----------



## Duckman#72 (11 May 2013)

kennas said:


> I think last night came down to simple momentum. If a couple of those points had been goals I think the score line would have been much different. Missed opportunities killed us.
> 
> Yes, Johnson should have been managed better but Hocking went to Selwood. Maybe they should have put Winderlich on him to get him into the game.
> 
> ...




I didn't want to appear too negative Kennas, as a loss to Geelong is nothing to be embarrassed about, however I hear you. There were a few players that went back to their form of prior years - Howlett, Myers, Melksham and Winderlich all had very average games. Without Stanton too much was left for Zaha and Jobe. 

We've spoken about Hurley before and as much as I love the way he attacks the ball, does it really make him worthy of a 5 year contract? I hope he blows me out of the water and becomes the player everyone seems to think he will be but I would rather have Carlisle and Heppell locked in for that length of time.

One other thing about last night......I suspect Fletch was still carrying an injury/illness as he was not his usual self. He wasn't moving all that quickly and didn't seem to be as "in control" as he usually is. At least I hope he was injured and it is not Father Time suddenly remembering about him!  

Duckman


----------



## Knobby22 (11 May 2013)

You have to admit though, Geelong looked like a well oiled machine. 

I am sure Essendon will be studying this game in the future to see what they need to do to reach that level. They did play well though, definitely much better than last year. They should make top four.


----------



## Duckman#72 (11 May 2013)

Knobby22 said:


> You have to admit though, Geelong looked like a well oiled machine.
> 
> I am sure Essendon will be studying this game in the future to see what they need to do to reach that level. They did play well though, definitely much better than last year. They should make top four.




No arguments here Knobby. Geelong looked very good. You have to admire their ability to remain so strong year after year.  

There's a lot to be said for pressure, pressure and more pressure. The Bombers will learn a lot from that game. 

Cheers
Duckman


----------



## lenny (11 May 2013)

kennas said:


> Leaving out Ryder? Should have played him instead of Hooker perhaps, Gumby probably did deserve his spot.




Yep Hooker is a liability down back, slow and can't read the play.

Anyone would think we were short on talls.


----------



## Sean K (18 May 2013)

Not impressed with the weekend's efforts. Lost the intensity and desire for the ball. And the mediocre players who were playing to the next level are back being mediocre. The bottom 6 are the key to any side.


----------



## Ves (18 May 2013)

kennas said:


> Not impressed with the weekend's efforts. Lost the intensity and desire for the ball. And the mediocre players who were playing to the next level are back being mediocre. The bottom 6 are the key to any side.



Yeah, we still look garbage under pressure. If we lose the tackle count we seem to lose the game.


----------



## Knobby22 (18 May 2013)

Wheels fell off a bit today.

"Before the Game" were joking that club officials were seen looking for Danks.

I think its just the let down from last week. They will come back.


----------



## Sean K (18 May 2013)

I expect them to come back a bit, but still not there yet. Top 8.

Carlisle, Hibberd, Bellcher and Heppell development has been amazing.

Recruiting Goddard a master stroke, but yet to really pay his way.

The bottom 6 on the supercoach scores need to look at themselves. 

And the Hurley belief is wrong.


----------



## Duckman#72 (18 May 2013)

Knobby22 said:


> Wheels fell off a bit today.
> 
> I think its just the let down from last week. They will come back.




I would like to think it was just a letdown. But this is now the third week in a row we've played with crap intensity levels. The rot started with GWS.

This is playing out exactly like last year.

Winderlich needs to go back to the reserves. Merrett and Kommer have lost some polish from early on in the season. Missed Dempsey today.

Getting very frustrated at the Bombers just bombing it into the 50 without anyone looking like a dangerous target.

Forward line looks brittle and midfield too reliant on Watson and Zaha. Sound familiar? 

Duckman


----------



## Sean K (18 May 2013)

Duckman#72 said:


> I would like to think it was just a letdown. But this is now the third week in a row we've played with crap intensity levels. The rot started with GWS.
> 
> This is playing out exactly like last year.
> 
> ...



+ 1

Although, I think Winder will slowly improve if he stays injury free. Still not sure if he's first 18 though. 

Dempsey major loss, silly rules, to some degree. Did we just lose a game because of that decision? Good inclusion next week.


----------



## nomore4s (20 May 2013)

Is it June already?


----------



## Duckman#72 (21 May 2013)

nomore4s said:


> Is it June already?




. Let's see against the Tiges.


----------



## Sean K (21 May 2013)

We could have beaten Geelong, but should have beaten Brisbane. It will be one that got away in retrospect. 

Although, beating Adelaide, Dockers and Collingwood was very unexpected to me... So, we're well ahead of expectations I think.

Top eight will do me. Top six will be a very good. 

My top eight:

Hawks
Swans
Cats
Pies
Eagles
Freeo
Port 
Tiges
Dons 

Brownlow:

Ablett 
Mitchell
Watson
Danger
Pendles
JPK

In any order at this stage.


----------



## Sean K (26 May 2013)

Bombers easily. 
Watson leading Brownlow. Amazing. 
Hibberd breaking out further. Reminds me of a combo of Soloman and Hardwick. 
Heppell in his third year?  
Zaha will be very very good, but can't see him in elite category. 
Goddard the best buy in some time. 
Ryder still needs to step up to the perceived potential.
Carlisle!!
Hurley contract the worst decision for some time. Lemon.

Glad we lost the last couple of games to take the pressure off. Maybe the June effect has been dampened.


----------



## Logique (27 May 2013)

We welcome Hirdey and the Bombers to our place on Saturday afternoon. 

How we'll contain Jobe I don't know, but we kept Pendlebury quiet last Friday. 

Not sure why we didn't get Joe Daniher on father-son, Anthony played a lot of games with us.

Should be a good one.


----------



## Trembling Hand (27 May 2013)

kennas said:


> My top eight:
> 
> Hawks
> Swans
> ...




You sure Port will be in that list?


----------



## jancha (27 May 2013)

I thought the drugs were wearing off the other week when Brisbane beat them at home.
Must have got another needle


----------



## Logique (1 June 2013)

Logique said:


> We welcome Hirdey and the Bombers to our place on Saturday afternoon.
> How we'll contain Jobe I don't know, but we kept Pendlebury quiet last Friday.
> Not sure why we didn't get Joe Daniher on father-son, Anthony played a lot of games with us.
> Should be a good one.



Bring your raincoats Bombers, it's going to be wet.


----------



## Sean K (1 June 2013)

Logique said:


> Bring your raincoats Bombers, it's going to be wet.



Looks fine out my window at the moment, but forecast was ordinary. 

Going to the game this arvo in the cheap seats so hopefully it doesn't get tooo wet. 

Go Dons!


----------



## Sean K (1 June 2013)

Logique said:


> Not sure why we didn't get Joe Daniher on father-son, Anthony played a lot of games with us.



I think the kid gets to choose when the father has played sufficient games with both clubs. So, of course he would choose Essendon.

Probably more because the other three brothers played there too...


----------



## Sean K (2 June 2013)

Well, that was wet, especially in the cheap seats out in the open. Lucky they sell heavy beer you can drink in the stands.

Sydney better than us, still. We either need to fundamentally improve, or they need to play poorly for us to get over them later in the year. 

We did have a few players down (Watson, Ryder, Hocking, Gumby, Dempsey injured, no Howlett or Davey who have been very important early, and Goddard didn't earn his pay) but had others playing above themselves (Hibberd, Stanton, Heppell, Baguley)

Carlisle to the forward line was interesting. Should try that again with Hurley or Ryder back in defence. Ryder plays his best footy there I reckon. 

Get Mitchell into your Supercoach team, will be a gun.


----------



## Logique (3 June 2013)

I thought playing away, small ground in the wet, there was plenty for the Bombers to take out of the match. 

Hibberd looked good. Carlisle shifted up forward, did well. Courage from Dempsey, but Nick Smith had his eyes on the ball. Howlett didn't play.  The final score flattered us.


----------



## Sean K (12 June 2013)

I'm not sure if was good luck or good management last weekend. Carlton just seemed to stop. For too long. We did get some momentum though, which seemed to roll on. Too few umpiring decisions made also. Not sure I'd ever say that!

Carlisle amazing. Can we sign him to a 10 year deal? Puts Hurley to shame. What a joke in contrast. 
Heppell's hands should be cloned. Showing some impressive courage too.
Goddard needs to start earning his $$. 
Myers looks to be stepping up. He's taller than Hurley I think, but plays like a Jobe, GAJ, or Pendles. Watch out. 
Hibberd almost being tagged off the half back line. LOL.
Howlett where are you. Time he started tagging to get back in the play. 
Jobe showing signs of wear and tear. 
Ryder to the back line. Please.
Hams? Why is a jockey on the field?? 

Can't wait to watch GAJ this weekend. I hope Hocking doesn't go to him...


----------



## nomore4s (13 June 2013)

Need to play Carlise forward and Hurley back full time. Hurley is the most overrated player in the comp and is a heaps better backman than forward.

Improved this year but still a bit short of the top 3 or 4 teams I think.

Be interesting to see how they go as the year progresses especially after the ASADA investigation is finished and the findings released. Fair chance they could run out of steam as everything could catch up with the players, been a long year for them already.


----------



## Duckman#72 (16 June 2013)

nomore4s said:


> Be interesting to see how they go as the year progresses especially after the ASADA investigation is finished and the findings released. Fair chance they could run out of steam as everything could catch up with the players, been a long year for them already.




In each of their last 6 games, there have been moments where I would think..."here we go again - 2012 revisited". We've looked slow, lethargic, undisciplined, undermanned etc.  The get-out-of-jail free card against Carlton has meant the blow torch hasn't full been turned on the the team.

I agree with you Nomores - all the signs suggest that we will fall away considerably at the back end of the season. 

Just a couple of points for the year to date:

1. My pet hate for the season is the continual kicking by the Essendon midfield to Alwyn Davey in the forward line. For a start, he usually has someone on him and secondly, he would be one of the worst overhead marks in the game. It is just not his strength. Stop kicking it to him!!!!!!!!

2. Hurley has to play back. My thoughts on Hurley are on here for all to see, but as much as he is a competitor, I'm just not seeing him as an elite forward. Jobe Watson looks far more natural and dangerous deep in the forward line. 

3. We have a wealth of riches in our backline. If you forget about our forward line for a moment - how good would a backline of Carlisle, Hurley, Hibberd, Fletcher, Baguley and Myers (throw in Hooker, Ryder and Pears for reserves)  

4. My concern is that our midfield and backline are developing and will peak at a different rate to our forward line structure. My forward line would be Daniher, Crameri, Goddard, Dempsey, Jetta with Heppell and Watson (revolving in and out of midfield). Not sure about Gumby. Neither am I sure about Davey. I keep expecting someone like Jetta to put his hand up and be counted but it is not happening.

Cheers
Duckman


----------



## Sean K (16 June 2013)

Duckman#72 said:


> In each of their last 6 games, there have been moments where I would think..."here we go again - 2012 revisited". We've looked slow, lethargic, undisciplined, undermanned etc.  The get-out-of-jail free card against Carlton has meant the blow torch hasn't full been turned on the the team.
> 
> I agree with you Nomores - all the signs suggest that we will fall away considerably at the back end of the season.
> 
> ...



Interesting points Duck.

1. Yes, no point in kicking to Davey, he's an opportunist off a pack. Never kick to him in a contest. Crazy.

2. Concur. I've always thought Hurley better back. The thing that separates him as a true backman is his natural desperation. He could be the best full back in the comp IMO.

3. I'd put Carlisle forward from that group from what I've seen.

4. Add Carlisle and forget Gumby in the forward line. We'll get a great trade for him next year. Maybe a priority pick from GWS if they don't take Buddy.


----------



## Logique (16 June 2013)

Give us Joe Daniher back (from a Swans supporter). Over 2m, how do you spoil him. 

Oh well, the Danihers have a strong association with Essendon. But Ungarie is deep into southern NSW.

Kurt Tippett will just have to fill in as best as he can.


----------



## Sean K (16 June 2013)

Logique said:


> Give us Joe Daniher back (from a Swans supporter). Over 2m, how do you spoil him.
> 
> Oh well, the Danihers have a strong association with Essendon. But Ungarie is deep into southern NSW.
> 
> Kurt Tippett will just have to fill in as best as he can.



It was a massive error in South Melbourne's judgement, Lou. They traded the Daniher name from Lakeside. 

Take the pain.


----------



## lenny (16 June 2013)

Bellchambers BOG in the 2's.
http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/2013-06-16/bellchambers-standout-in-loss

Makes for interesting selection in the big man department against WCE with Cox & Nic nat.

*IN's:*T.Belchambers

*OUT:*C.Hooker

-Bellchambers into the ruck.
-Patty Ryder to play backline for Hooker and relieve in the ruck.
-Hurley to the backline and Carlise forward .
-A smaller player as sub to compensate for talls.

 Joey Daniher really looks the goods, I just hope he doesn't get squeezed out.
Very short sighted if they go down that path.


----------



## Sean K (16 June 2013)

lenny said:


> Bellchambers BOG in the 2's.
> http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/2013-06-16/bellchambers-standout-in-loss
> 
> Makes for interesting selection in the big man department against WCE with Cox & Nic nat.
> ...




+1 Lenny. Team looking good with talent in reserve. First time for some time.


----------



## Duckman#72 (16 June 2013)

lenny said:


> Bellchambers BOG in the 2's.
> http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/2013-06-16/bellchambers-standout-in-loss
> 
> Makes for interesting selection in the big man department against WCE with Cox & Nic nat.
> ...




Yes Hooker out and Bellchambers in.

If the big guys don't fire we can look slow and lumbering. I don't think you can have Bellchambers, Ryder, Hooker, Daniher, Carlisle, Gumbleton and Fletcher in the same team. Need to lose Hooker and Gumby.

Duckman


----------



## JTLP (16 June 2013)

Joe Daniher will develop into a good player when he gets some meat on him and goes in harder at the ball. He looks very slow and 'Bambi' like. He's kicking is also a bit so-so but that may just be the big games. He is young so I should cut him so slack...great mark though!

Essendon do have a tidy outfit but they seem to fade in and out some games.


----------



## Duckman#72 (18 June 2013)

Mark Neeld has gone and names like Roos, Eade, Clarkson and Williams are being thrown around but not Mark Thompson. 

Would Mark Thompson be interested? 

Considering Melbourne have made it clear they will be looking for the tried and proven, he must be at least worth talking to? I know he didn't want to continue being a head coach at Geelong but everyone's circumstances change.

I understand that he is quite an astute businessman in his own right, who has built up some wealth, so the big $$$ probably wouldn't interest as much as it would others. 

Just throwing it out there - premiership coachs don't grow on trees.  

Duckman


----------



## Sean K (18 June 2013)

Duckman#72 said:


> Mark Neeld has gone and names like Roos, Eade, Clarkson and Williams are being thrown around but not Mark Thompson.
> 
> Would Mark Thompson be interested?
> 
> ...



I don't think so. He seems pretty happy kicking back on what is probably the average Coach's salary with all care and no responsibility. Too soon at least.


----------



## Logique (18 June 2013)

I still think it's the job for Sheedy, provided he had board support.

Not the position for the young career coach.


----------



## Sean K (18 June 2013)

Logique said:


> I still think it's the job for Sheedy, provided he had board support.
> 
> Not the position for the young career coach.



Sheeds offered himself up a few years ago but wasn't willing to go through the entire selection process. As you would expect. They turned him down and chose The Bear. Melbourne must look back to that decision and have pains. He would be very unlikely to even offer himself up there after being disrespected.


----------



## Sean K (27 June 2013)

West Coast supporters a disgrace. 

I now question all West Australians.


----------



## Duckman#72 (27 June 2013)

kennas said:


> West Coast supporters a disgrace.




Yes but, Karma can come and bite you on the ****!

What a fantastic win!!! Absolutely magnificent!!!!!!

Please, please, please keep Hurley in the backline.

Duckman


----------



## Sean K (27 June 2013)

kennas said:


> West Coast supporters a disgrace.
> 
> I now question all West Australians.



Except those of the ANZAC Div around 1915.

- - - Updated - - -



Duckman#72 said:


> Please, please, please keep Hurley in the backline.
> 
> Duckman



Why can the rest of the world see this and not the coach?


----------



## sptrawler (27 June 2013)

I'm not a west coast or essendon supporter, however if essendon wasn't AFL royalty, they would be in deep poo.

Obviously essendon is a club that isn't allowed to fail.

Unlike Fitzroy.


----------



## Sean K (27 June 2013)

sptrawler said:


> I'm not a west coast or essendon supporter, however if essendon wasn't AFL royalty, they would be in deep poo.



I agree.

But, there are degrees of poo. 

I think we are all trying to work out the balance....

of poo


----------



## MrBurns (28 June 2013)

kennas said:


> West Coast supporters a disgrace.
> 
> I now question all West Australians.




If they had to pass an intelligence test before entry to the ground it would be empty.

Bogan ingrates...


----------



## chiff (28 June 2013)

Well it has certainly put the AFL heavies in a quandary.
What do you think would happen to Usain Bolt if he admitted to having used a banned performance enhancing substance?


----------



## IFocus (28 June 2013)

kennas said:


> West Coast supporters a disgrace.
> 
> I now question all West Australians.





Disgrace is using banned substances then saying you have done nothing wrong, sheezzes you Victorian guys are a total disgrace if it was a interstate team the hanging posses would be riding out of Melbourne with self righteous zeal here you are beating your chests because a crowd made your boy cry.

Watson great player but WTF did he think was happening as they pumped him full of juice is that the definition of "stupid"............ he just got a dose of reality.

Essendon are a complete joke drugs won last night not Essendon as has been the whole season.

Now to put on my flame proof suit


----------



## nomore4s (28 June 2013)

kennas said:


> West Coast supporters a disgrace.




Agree it wasn't a good look but what did Watson think would happen when he comes out on national TV and admits to taking a substance that WADA have said is a banned substance?

They certainly weren't going to cheer for him.

The EFC club embarked on a systematic campaign to seek an advantage over the rest of the competition through a program of injecting supplements to allow the players training loads to be increased therefore fast tracking their physical development.
It now appears some of the substances were banned by the WADA code at the time of use. This is the reason fans from other clubs are baying for blood, it is also the part most glossed over by Essendon fans.

Just because the initial intent was to stay within WADA regulations but the program spiraled out of control is also no excuse. They purposely set out to push the boundaries and by their own admission sailed close to the edge. If they weren't smart enough to put in place decent safe guards to protect the club and players from Dank and his mates going too far, they have to cop the consequences. Unfortunately it could be the players that cop the biggest whack.

The EFC have no else to blame but themselves. Now they are trying to seek legal loop holes to escape penalty for what they were doing but the fact is they set out on a course to seek a chemical advantage over the rest of the competition and it now looks increasingly likely they used banned substances to do that.


----------



## Trembling Hand (28 June 2013)

I actually felt sorry for Jobe last night. He is in a position forced on him by a cheating club administration and I think his interview during the week was an ill conceived response to the predicament he is now in. Clearly he has some character and is struggling to deal with the likelihood he is now also a drug cheat.

It was a good game to watch until James Hird was on the boundary smiling and celebrating his team success after the siren while his captain was out in the middle clearly distressed and on the point of balling his eyes out. That made me angry. 

Hird :bad:


----------



## Miss Hale (28 June 2013)

kennas said:


> West Coast supporters a disgrace.
> 
> I now question all West Australians.




Watson would have been booed whoever they played. Much as I'm no great fan of Western Australian football supporters in this case they were expressing the disapproval of most fans who aren't Essendon supporters. You would have to have your head in the sand (along with Watson and Hird) not to realise that there is huge amount of anger and disquiet in the football community about what has been going on at Essendon and their apparent contempt for the rules regarding banned substances.


----------



## nomore4s (28 June 2013)

Miss Hale said:


> Watson would have been booed whoever they played. Much as I'm no great fan of Western Australian football supporters in this case they were expressing the disapproval of most fans who aren't Essendon supporters. You would have to have your head in the sand (along with Watson and Hird) not to realise that there is huge amount of anger and disquiet in the football community about what has been going on at Essendon and their apparent contempt for the rules regarding banned substances.




Also not sure Essendon supporters can get on their high horse about Watson getting boo'd considering they used to mercilessly boo Stanton.


----------



## Duckman#72 (28 June 2013)

I can understand other clubs baying for blood based on what has been mentioned in media reports, Ziggy's findings, lounge chair interviews and in some cases pure hearsay. 

My only comment is I'll wait and judge after the findings of ASADA. I've said it many times before and I'll say it again............. I think there are missing pieces of the puzzle that we are not privy to yet.

As for Jobe getting emotional about the booing and jeering, I can completely understand that. On the face of it, Essendon (the Club) have completely let down their players. It is completely unfathomable to Jobe to consider himself a drug cheat. The definition of cheat being...."a deliberately dishonest practise or transaction with the idea to gain or fraud."  In the end, we may find out that it has transpired his way, but I think most people would believe it was not the intention of Jobe. 

Plenty of players have been booed in the past and plenty of players will be booed in the future but it usually for something that they have done or been in control of, such as:

a) Leaving a club to go to another (Goddard)
b) Whacking a player (Dipper/Rhys-Jones, Dermie etc) 
c) Occasionally if a player is just considered a champion of a rival team (Judd, Swan etc)

Unfortunately, Jobe is copping the full brunt of the attack that should more correctly be directed towards the EFC.

Cheers
Duckman


----------



## Duckman#72 (28 June 2013)

nomore4s said:


> Also not sure Essendon supporters can get on their high horse about Watson getting boo'd considering they used to mercilessly boo Stanton.




To be fair - it wasn't so much booing, as cheering when he was subbed off! 

But your point is well made! 

Every club has it's list of what the commentators like to call "much-maligned" players. Another for Essendon was Kevin Walsh in the 80's. Remember the famous quote yelled out from the outer at Windy Hill.... "For Christ sake Sheedy, when are you gonna do the right thing and marry Kevin's mother."

Duckman


----------



## Gringotts Bank (28 June 2013)

I'm stunned that Bruce Reid, the club doctor, still escapes scrutiny.  Surely he is the man responsible for what goes on with medicines and supplements.  Watson and the players would just do what they're told, trusting that those in charge are working within the rules.


----------



## nomore4s (28 June 2013)

Duckman#72 said:


> Unfortunately, Jobe is copping the full brunt of the attack that should more correctly be directed towards the EFC.




Unfortunately Jobe has made himself the face of the whole saga by saying what he did on National TV. 

I do feel sorry for Jobe and the other Essendon players because they have been badly let down by people within the club they trusted. There is no way the club will escape some sort of sanction now even if AOD and whatever else they took is all ticked off on. The best result for EFC now is that players are not banned.

Could you imagine the fallout and consequences for EFC if players are banned, there will be some pretty serious lawsuits for starters.


----------



## lenny (28 June 2013)

I really can't wait have this debacle sorted out.

So much BS and innuendo the media are having a field day creating headlines and dragging peoples reputations through the mud to sell papers.

Lets hear the facts.


----------



## Duckman#72 (28 June 2013)

nomore4s said:


> There is no way the club will escape some sort of sanction now even if AOD and whatever else they took is all ticked off on.




You can't say that with any certainty Nomores. I expect that you are right, but if "whatever they took had been all ticked off on" as in ..... given specific approval by ASADA, Essendon will come out swinging against any sanctions.

It is pointless talking about what should or shouldn't be the penalty, because we still don't have the full picture about what was or wasn't taken and under who's guidance or approval.

Ironically, talking to other AFL followers who support other teams, the general consensus seems to be that Jobe's integrity, character and standing and respect in the football world has increased significantly in the face of the adversity he has faced leading his team this year. (Although I am an unabashed fan, it is hard to pick fault with him!!) 

Duckman


----------



## nomore4s (28 June 2013)

Duckman#72 said:


> You can't say that with any certainty Nomores. I expect that you are right, but if "whatever they took had been all ticked off on" as in ..... given specific approval by ASADA, Essendon will come out swinging against any sanctions.
> 
> It is pointless talking about what should or shouldn't be the penalty, because we still don't have the full picture about what was or wasn't taken and under who's guidance or approval.
> 
> ...




EFC will be charged with bringing the game into disrepute no matter what happens from here. Which will mean fines and or draft picks taken off them. I really can not see a way they get of scott free, especially considering Ziggy's report.


----------



## Sean K (30 June 2013)

The media is taking a prominent role in this.

The Age is front and centre.

More hyperbole here:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/bomber-woes-mount-as-drug-probe-widens-20130629-2p48d.html

Fairfax is crumbling and resorting to anything to gain a story.

Let's not be complete idiots, as they think we are.


----------



## Sean K (12 July 2013)

Jobe is a bit of a loss. Just a little bit of a loss. We can do without him. 

Is that convincing? 

Amazing resilience of the group. Good to see Goddard step up last week. Probably his best game. About time. 

I'm prepared for us to lose all points for this season at this stage. And no draft picks. And a big fine. Just hope there's no player sanctions. That's worst case I think. Best case is there's a loop hole in what was given to the players. Like the ACC report contradicting WADA. And hopefully that letter exists from ASADA saying it's ok. But I doubt that. 

Surprised Joe Daniher hasn't come back in ....


----------



## Miss Hale (13 July 2013)

kennas said:


> Surprised Joe Daniher hasn't come back in ....




Yes, me too, I put him in my Supercoach team on the strength of his first game and now he is not playing


----------



## nomore4s (16 July 2013)

Miss Hale said:


> Yes, me too, I put him in my Supercoach team on the strength of his first game and now he is not playing




Bit to do with team balance I think. Got a lot of talls to try and fit in.

With Bellchambers playing so well not sure how they can fit Daniher in. Also if Bellchambers gets dropped again I think a few clubs will be chasing him pretty hard.


----------



## lenny (17 July 2013)

Dons could be in the clear.

All the journos will start to do back flips now!

http://www.foxsports.com.au/AFL/don...680392041?subcat=1225914646252&site=FoxSports


----------



## lenny (17 July 2013)

Sorry try this
http://www.foxsports.com.au/AFL/don...680392041?subcat=1225914646252&site=FoxSports


----------



## Duckman#72 (17 July 2013)

lenny said:


> Sorry try this
> http://www.foxsports.com.au/AFL/don...680392041?subcat=1225914646252&site=FoxSports




Still a lot further to go yet.....but as I've been saying, there is more to this than we have been made aware of.

It was irrational for Essendon to have taken the stance they have, without some proof backing them. 

Interesting that it is Gerard Whateley making the claims. I really rate him as a journo and he is usually very measured in the position he takes. He is not an "ambulance chaser" who goes off half cocked just to break a story. Caroline Wilson is still sticking to her position that Hird should be hung, drawn and quartered. 

Interesting times.

Duckman


----------



## Sean K (17 July 2013)

Duckman#72 said:


> Caroline Wilson is still sticking to her position that Hird should be hung, drawn and quartered.



It's turning into Fairfax v News. 

I'm really hoping she has to eat her hat on this, of course.


----------



## Knobby22 (18 July 2013)

I hope all that happens is Essendon lose a few premiership points and Corcoran loses his job.

I respect Whately and Wilson so wonder what they know. She seems pretty confident.


----------



## Knobby22 (28 July 2013)

This thread is getting increasingly well named. What's going on? Now the Presidents resigned I just want this resolved asap.


----------



## Duckman#72 (29 July 2013)

Knobby22 said:


> This thread is getting increasingly well named. What's going on? Now the Presidents resigned I just want this resolved asap.




Yes she's about to blow!!

Makes you wonder whether the NRL were on the right track all along. No help, assistance or cooperation given to ASADA. I had the Cronulla game on in the background yesterday and there was not one mention of any drug controversy.

Like you Knobby, I want it over. Just wipe our points, take our draft picks or whatever they are going to do and hurry up about it. Talk about a death by a thousand injections.

Duckman


----------



## Trembling Hand (29 July 2013)

Duckman#72 said:


> Like you Knobby, I want it over. Just wipe our points, take our draft picks or whatever they are going to do and hurry up about it. Talk about a death by a thousand injections.




Yep its getting very messy now. AFL top Brass are getting dragged in. They will not like that at all!


----------



## pixel (29 July 2013)

Duckman#72 said:


> Still a lot further to go yet.
> [...]
> Caroline Wilson is still sticking to her position that Hird should be hung, drawn and quartered.
> Duckman




I agree with her - especially considering his "holier than thou" attitude when the Cuz was in trouble.
How quickly and conveniently they forget...


----------



## nomore4s (29 July 2013)

The Weapon's interview on Wen night should be interesting.


----------



## Miss Hale (29 July 2013)

I had some sympathy towards Essendon on this whole thing in the beginning but it is gradually being whittled away with more information coming out, the resignations, Hird's attitude etc. I do think they have a point about getting on with it though - whole thing should have been resolved months ago.  Sanctions if any will need to apply to next year now, it's no good taking premiership points off them _after _the season is over.


----------



## pixel (29 July 2013)

Miss Hale said:


> I had some sympathy towards Essendon on this whole thing in the beginning but it is gradually being whittled away with more information coming out, the resignations, Hird's attitude etc. I do think they have a point about getting on with it though - whole thing should have been resolved months ago.  Sanctions if any will need to apply to next year now, it's no good taking premiership points off them _after _the season is over.




Never fear: Demetriou is in America to find facts.
He could've saved himself the trouble by conducting a thorough search here - months ago! "D'Oh!"


----------



## Gringotts Bank (29 July 2013)

pixel said:


> Never fear: Demetriou is in America to find facts.
> He could've saved himself the trouble by conducting a thorough search here - months ago! "D'Oh!"




Yeh, slimey bloke Demetriou.


----------



## Sean K (29 July 2013)

The leaking of information from all parties regarding this has been diabolical.

Caro criticising Hird of leaking confidential information surely puts her into contention for the greatest hypocrite of 2013 award. No, 21st century. Her entire argument is based on leaked information. Does she realise the irony? I doubt it, so blinded she is in trying to sell papers in her quest to destroy Hird and Co. People are losing their jobs and resigning because of the media speculation and the pressure it's putting on their lives and families. Not because of any proved wrong-doing. It's the media throng, creating the pressure, whose hands are now bloodied with the untimely and probably unwarranted demise of some very good people. All this because of the 'blackest day in Australian sport' which is yet to file a charge, and aired prematurely by the Gillard experiment. 

All this because an individual at ASADA seems to have provided poor, or at least ambiguous, advice.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (1 August 2013)

I didn't get much out of last night's interview.  I think Hird hired the wrong guy and should take responsibility for that.  Robinson, in his desire to live up to the hype surrounding him, must have felt a lot of pressure to deliver.  Maybe a few boundaries were crossed in the process.  

Hird needs to understand what sort of power he wields, particularly around vulnerable and weak-willed individuals such as Robinson.  I hold Hird responsible entirely for this mess.


----------



## Knobby22 (1 August 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> I didn't get much out of last night's interview.  I think Hird hired the wrong guy and should take responsibility for that.  Robinson, in his desire to live up to the hype surrounding him, must have felt a lot of pressure to deliver.  Maybe a few boundaries were crossed in the process.
> 
> Hird needs to understand what sort of power he wields, particularly around vulnerable and weak-willed individuals such as Robinson.  I hold Hird responsible entirely for this mess.




Golden boy Hird is starting to look like a pill popper with a paranoid streak. I think what you say is correct GB.


----------



## MrBurns (1 August 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Yeh, slimey bloke Demetriou.




I cant get my head around the fact they pay him $2m a year............for what ?


----------



## pixel (1 August 2013)

MrBurns said:


> I cant get my head around the fact they pay him $2m a year............for what ?




For *"Whatever it Takes"*


----------



## Sean K (1 August 2013)

pixel said:


> For *"Whatever it Takes"*



I think that was in regard to Demetripoo.

It's still speculation in regard to anything Hird took in order to get a tanned face. He's allowed to have a tanned face under WADA rules I think. 

None of the peptides other than AOD have been realistically implicated in a systematic doping program. 

ASADA seemed to have told Essendon AOD was OK. 

The media have built this into something it is probably not, just to get a story. 

The interview last night by the ex-AFL player / media stooge Luke Darcy was just lame. Lame. His handling of the 'black ops' comment was laughable. 'Will you say that again?' and then proceeds to put the words back into the Weapon's mouth, wrongly attributing them to Hird. What a joke. 'Objection, Your Honour, the interviewer is a ex Footscray player.' 

The Weapon is a disgruntled ex-employee who has zero credibility. Especially when one of your key points is factually incorrect as supported by the cops. What a goose.


----------



## Sean K (1 August 2013)

Here is Caro and Fairfax being objective and professional:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/pies-the-source-20130801-2r2aw.html

The entire story is reliant on leaks.

Yet, JH is the one causing all the problems for the AFL 'leaking' information, according to Caro. 

Fairfax is bringing the game into disrepute.

The hypocrisy is mind blowing. 

She doesn't have a story without a lead, or a deal, or a pay off. You are a HACK!


----------



## IFocus (1 August 2013)

Is it James Hird............or Lance Hird its well and truly gone beyond the point of fascicle a AFL club that doesn't know their players are getting pumped full of juice and hiding behind misinformation.


----------



## sptrawler (1 August 2013)

I'm not that interested, but it does need to be brought to an end.
Everyone is getting a bit fed up with it, somewhat like the election. 
It can be dragged out and it can be mitigated to some extent. But eventually you have to face the music.


----------



## Miss Hale (6 August 2013)

I agree the interview with The Weapon/Dean Robinson was pretty lame.  The whole thing about the Black Ops was pathetic.  All we had was Dank saying that _he thought _what Hird et al were asking him to do was a Black Op.  Firstly a Black Op isn't necessarily something illegal and, secondly, we didn't hear how Hird responded.  He may have said, "No, not a Black Op".  The obvious next question Luke Darcy should have asked was, "What did Hird say?" But instead he says, "Say it again" and, "Who was in the room at that time?" Hint Luke, we are not as dumb as you think we are (or as dumb as you are), we can see that this was a big beat up.  I also thought all the weepy stuff with his wife and the shots at the beach were pathetic.  Anyone who cries on TV loses credibility with me. The panel afterwards was a joke!

Having said this, I do think Robinson has reason to feel aggrieved as I believe he has been made a scapegoat. 

Like everyone else, totally sick of the whole thing and want to see it sorted out.  Unfortunately I think it will drag on for years.  If the players are sanctioned I'm sure they will sue the club.  And with the retinue of lawyers Hird has assembled I can't see him taking any punishment that might be meted out to him lying down.


----------



## Duckman#72 (8 August 2013)

Miss Hale said:


> I agree the interview with The Weapon/Dean Robinson was pretty lame.  The whole thing about the Black Ops was pathetic.  All we had was Dank saying that _he thought _what Hird et al were asking him to do was a Black Op.  Firstly a Black Op isn't necessarily something illegal and, secondly, we didn't hear how Hird responded.  He may have said, "No, not a Black Op".  The obvious next question Luke Darcy should have asked was, "What did Hird say?" But instead he says, "Say it again" and, "Who was in the room at that time?" Hint Luke, we are not as dumb as you think we are (or as dumb as you are), we can see that this was a big beat up.  I also thought all the weepy stuff with his wife and the shots at the beach were pathetic.  Anyone who cries on TV loses credibility with me. The panel afterwards was a joke!
> 
> Having said this, I do think Robinson has reason to feel aggrieved as I believe he has been made a scapegoat.
> 
> Like everyone else, totally sick of the whole thing and want to see it sorted out.  Unfortunately I think it will drag on for years.  If the players are sanctioned I'm sure they will sue the club.  And with the retinue of lawyers Hird has assembled I can't see him taking any punishment that might be meted out to him lying down.




I am just waiting for the whole thing to be over. It has reached farcical proportions.
It is possible for the AFL to charge Caro and Patrick Smith with "Bringing the Game into Disrepute"..or what abo0ut Kate Lundy with her "Blackest Day in Australian Sport" comment?

Now we get the ridiculous situation where the AFL sits in judgement on Hird and the Bombers and will potentially impose penalties, before any actual findings are released by ASADA! That process has "legal action" written all over it. Of course Essendon will challenge penaltiesin that case. 

If ASADA cannot comprehensively find that clear breaches of substance abuse took place (not breaches of procedures or protocol) after 6months of investigations/interviews and forensic searches then surely it is time to move on.  

The only thing more shambolic than Essendon's supplement program, appears to be the ASADA, the media and the AFL's investigation and response to it.  If ASADA don't impose penalties on any players, there will be a lot of unhappy journalists, ciommentators and football supporters. You know the ones?....those people who automatically became experts in performance enhancing drugs and called for everything but the death penalty at Windy Hill. 

Hurry up Andrew and make your move......but a word of warning. It is very dangerous to lecture other people people on how they smell, when you are standing in the same stuff. 

Duckman


----------



## banco (8 August 2013)

Agree with Dean Robinson's lawyer that it's a joke for Hird and Essendon to try and claim the high moral ground when they threw him under the bus.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (13 August 2013)

Interesting interviews with Hird lately.  Here is a guy with a _very_ strong mind and you can see it reflected in everything that surrounds him... the good, the bad and the tragic.  Those close to him get drawn into his world as if they had no mind of their own.  There's a little bit of a Cassandra thing happening here, and a testing of wills.  Part of him is enjoying the power struggle with the Demetriou and the AFL, because he knows he is more powerful than them.  Demetriou has never had a powerful opponent in his life.  I'm becoming quite intrigued by the man.  

This is aside from the fact that he has stuffed up the club.  He employed the wrong people and he didn't properly manage or oversee the process, so it's all his fault.  But Hird the man is intriguing.


----------



## chiff (13 August 2013)

I will hazard a guess-that Hird is acting on legal advice and hence his stance.I heard someone say that his wife is a lawyer as well so he knew where to go for preliminary advice at least.


----------



## banco (13 August 2013)

chiff said:


> I will hazard a guess-that Hird is acting on legal advice and hence his stance.I heard someone say that his wife is a lawyer as well so he knew where to go for preliminary advice at least.




I don't think Hird is stupid enough to rely on legal advice from his wife.  Their not very convincing argument seems to be that AOD was neither performance enhancing nor harmful to the players.


----------



## chiff (13 August 2013)

I did say preliminary advice.She could point him in the right direction to get more experienced advice.No doubt from someone more experienced in like matters.


----------



## MrBurns (13 August 2013)

Hird charged - disgraceful, Hird is one of the games greatest players and an honourable man to boot.


----------



## banco (13 August 2013)

MrBurns said:


> Hird charged - disgraceful, Hird is one of the games greatest players and an honourable man to boot.




What's that got to do with the charges?


----------



## MrBurns (13 August 2013)

banco said:


> What's that got to do with the charges?




Hird wouldn't do anything to bring the game or himself into disrepute, these charges will be defended by the best QC's in Australia.


----------



## banco (13 August 2013)

MrBurns said:


> Hird wouldn't do anything to bring the game or himself into disrepute, these charges will be defended by the best QC's in Australia.




You notice how careful they are not to deny that AOD was taken by players?


----------



## MrBurns (13 August 2013)

banco said:


> You notice how careful they are not to deny that AOD was taken by players?




I would bet anything that Hird would not do anything illegal, perhaps dabble in supplements but never deliberately cheat or act illegally.


----------



## Duckman#72 (13 August 2013)

MrBurns said:


> Hird charged - disgraceful, Hird is one of the games greatest players and an honourable man to boot.




The AFL hasn't missed anyone down at Windy Hill. Apart from the actual players they charged the lot. 

Hope Hirdy and his legal team rip it up Demetriou. I don't care if the AFL schedules ANZAC Day between the pies and Carlton.

More waiting now!

Duckman


----------



## MrBurns (13 August 2013)

Duckman#72 said:


> Hope Hirdy and his legal team rip it up Demetriou.
> Duckman




+1 absolutely...........


----------



## Tink (14 August 2013)

Well hopefully it gets sorted out and soon, this has been going on for 6 months, pretty much the whole season. 

Sadly, with sport seems to be one thing after another lately.


----------



## explod (14 August 2013)

MrBurns said:


> Hird wouldn't do anything to bring the game or himself into disrepute, these charges will be defended by the best QC's in Australia.




Know the Family background, worked for his Grandfather when I was a kid, they are good people.

For a change, +1 MrBurns

I actually feel the AFL would like to ease the Bombers away from Windy Hill as they do not fit with the bow and scrape regime.  A Demon follower myself so not the ususal focus, but I remember very well a few years back (around 97) when the umpiring was obviously against the bombers in crucial games.  Sheede's continued success was the target.

In my usual humble opinion of course.


----------



## IFocus (14 August 2013)

If it was a team outside of Melbourne the AFL would have dead bodies hanging from lamp poles, the Dons have been completely shamed by a group who refuse to take responsibility for their utter incompetence in placing players health / welfare and the club in jeopardy a long way behind their own career money making ambitions. 

James "Armstrong" Hird has absolutely no support / respect outside of Melbourne.


----------



## Miss Hale (14 August 2013)

explod said:


> Know the Family background, worked for his Grandfather when I was a kid, they are good people.




Know some of the family too.  Some of them are great people, some are not so great. Don't think you can extrapolate that because his grandfather was a decent bloke James is as well.


----------



## Duckman#72 (14 August 2013)

IFocus said:


> James "Armstrong" Hird has absolutely no support / respect outside of Melbourne.




It appears that your ability to make grand, overreaching generalisations is not merely limited to the political threads IFocus . 

Hirdy and the Bombers have reasonable levels of support here in Qld. 

You guys in WA need to get that chip off your shoulders. Just accept that Santa will always visit us first Christmas morning and move on.

Duckman


----------



## lenny (15 August 2013)

Duckman#72 said:


> Hope Hirdy and his legal team rip it up Demetriou.




Why aren't the news paper's/ Journos's  questioning Demetriou's integrity? 

Didn't he make the secret phone call to tip the EFC off that they were in the gun.


----------



## Trembling Hand (15 August 2013)

This will just get sillier and sillier. Hird will take down anyone and everyone if needed. The similarities with the Armstrong case is scary. 

Armstrong used his cancer comeback to great effect in colouring peoples doubts and suspicions. And the courts and money for anyone who didn't.

Hird is using his legend status and all round golden boy image exactly the same. Meanwhile the season gets rooted and the players have to deal with this worry,

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...mystery-mexican-substance-20130814-2rx6m.html


> Essendon club officials have been unable to tell ASADA or their players what drugs some of them were given when they were injected with a substance bought in Mexico by a Melbourne man suffering from muscular dystrophy.





If this was Scott Watters or Mark Neeld we would indeed have someone hung up from a flag pole on the MCG stand.


----------



## Baldric (16 August 2013)

It is time for the players and the parents of the players to say to the club that enough is enough.
They need to force the club to fess up to what has gone on and cop a ban. 
At the end of the day it is only a game and the sun will come up tomorrow if they get points deducted or whatever.

If my kid was in the playing group I would consider legal action against the club.


----------



## IFocus (17 August 2013)

Duckman#72 said:


> It appears that your ability to make grand, overreaching generalisations is not merely limited to the political threads IFocus .
> 
> Hirdy and the Bombers have reasonable levels of support here in Qld.
> 
> ...




When you are born in WA the chip comes with the DNA......cannot be removed ever  

Along with a healthy distrust of all things from that mob on the eastern sea board. 

The old saying where there is smoke there is fire the Dons have raging flames.

A couple of points we all know for certain

Players were given injections across the road in some dodgy set-up instead of at the club in clean areas meant for such purposes and they had to sign disclaimers.
All the coaching staff knew this of which Hird is in charge of.
This is the really really big one no records were kept of what and how much was injected into who. Having worked with standards, compliance and audits this what you do when you are up to no good no ifs no buts.

Hird is the one holding the mars bar.


----------



## Sean K (17 August 2013)

This is just BS trial by media. A disgrace. I would have thought those clowns Caro and Robbo would have the games best interests at heart, not try to bring it down with their sensationalistic hearsay commentary. We haven't seen a fact placed on the table yet.   

ASADA and the Labor Party have brought the game into disrepute jumping at shadows in the aftermath of the Armstrong debacle. The blackest day in Australia sport has brought down a handful of administrators in the AFL who were doing what the AFL demands of them. Make the players as good as they can be to create a spectacle on the field to gain more money through gate receipts and television rights to pay their ridiculous salaries. Dimheadrio gets what? $500K? WTF!


----------



## Macquack (17 August 2013)

kennas said:


> Dimheadrio gets what? $500K? WTF!




Dimaggio was paid $1.88 million last year.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-posts/story-e6frf9jf-1226599646463


----------



## chiff (18 August 2013)

It seems like a world away since the Victorian media were wanting blood from the Crows over the Tippet draft tampering incident.
That seems to pale in comparison.


----------



## pixel (18 August 2013)

chiff said:


> It seems like a world away since the Victorian media were wanting blood from the Crows over the Tippet draft tampering incident.
> That seems to pale in comparison.




... and even further back, when Hird was one of the most scathing critics in the campaign against Cousins and Gardner. Yes, they associated with shady characters and "used" - but that was in their private lives, outside the sport, and what they took certainly did not enhance their performance. Not condoning their conduct, not even agreeing with Richmond's "life line" to the Cuz; but I can't get thoughts like "Holier than Thou" and "hypocrite" out of my mind when I hear how all those earlier arguments are forgotten now that the roles are reversed.

Which Essendon player is, or ever has been, at risk of obesity that they'd need injections? 
I'm sure the Legal Team will be able to explain that too.

Disgusted


----------



## Sean K (18 August 2013)

pixel said:


> ... and even further back, when Hird was one of the most scathing critics in the campaign against Cousins and Gardner. Yes, they associated with shady characters and "used" - but that was in their private lives, outside the sport, and what they took certainly did not enhance their performance. Not condoning their conduct, not even agreeing with Richmond's "life line" to the Cuz; but I can't get thoughts like "Holier than Thou" and "hypocrite" out of my mind when I hear how all those earlier arguments are forgotten now that the roles are reversed.
> 
> Which Essendon player is, or ever has been, at risk of obesity that they'd need injections?
> I'm sure the Legal Team will be able to explain that too.
> ...





I think the players should have more leniency with taking anything recreational when it's not in the public, but should not be compared with taking 'performance enhancing' drugs.

We delve into philosophical territory here, but how does AOD improve _performance_. No one can answer that on what we have been presented and can google. 

How is that disgusting? 

Everyone is jumping at shadows.


----------



## banco (18 August 2013)

kennas said:


> I think the players should have more leniency with taking anything recreational when it's not in the public, but should not be compared with taking 'performance enhancing' drugs.
> 
> We delve into philosophical territory here, but how does AOD improve _performance_. No one can answer that on what we have been presented and can google.
> 
> ...




There doesn't seem to be any evidence that AOD has an anabolic effect but why were the  players being given it if the intent wasn't to improve performance?  It seems like they were fed a line about it's positive effects (despite the lack of evidence) and decided to give it a go (which makes them look even dumber if the drug that has caused them all this trouble had no positive effects).

They are like kids that get sold oregano thinking it's pot.


----------



## Sean K (18 August 2013)

banco said:


> There doesn't seem to be any evidence that AOD has an anabolic effect but why were the  players being given it if the intent wasn't to improve performance?  It seems like they were fed a line about it's positive effects (despite the lack of evidence) and decided to give it a go (which makes them look even dumber if the drug that has caused them all this trouble had no positive effects).
> 
> They are like kids that get sold oregano thinking it's pot.



Yes, I agree. Why take it if it doesn't have an effect? 



Poor argument.

I suppose their argument is that it was just a BS attempt to gain a recovery advantage. Does that enhance performance? On last years results, the answer is more than obviously no.


----------



## banco (18 August 2013)

kennas said:


> Yes, I agree. Why take it if it doesn't have an effect?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




If a drug increases recovery then it's a performance enhancer (a lot of the stuff Tour De France guys take is designed to increase recovery).


----------



## Sean K (19 August 2013)

banco said:


> If a drug increases recovery then it's a performance enhancer (a lot of the stuff Tour De France guys take is designed to increase recovery).



I agree.

Like walking in freezing cold water the day after playing aids recovery. Like making sure you consume sufficient proteins after a game to aid in regeneration of the muscles. Llike carbo loading from Thursday night to aid in maximum energy. Like getting a pain killing injection at half time after a dislocated finger. Like being stitched up at three quarter time. Where is the line in the sand? The line is the legally placed left and right of arc by the governing bodies. If Essendon have crossed that line, then fine. Proof?


----------



## Trembling Hand (19 August 2013)

kennas said:


> I agree.
> 
> Like walking in freezing cold water the day after playing aids recovery. Like making sure you consume sufficient proteins after a game to aid in regeneration of the muscles. Llike carbo loading from Thursday night to aid in maximum energy. Like getting a pain killing injection at half time after a dislocated finger. Like being stitched up at three quarter time. Where is the line in the sand? The line is the legally placed left and right of arc by the governing bodies. If Essendon have crossed that line, then fine. Proof?




Kennas you most definitely have crossed the line when you give something to your players that isn't approved for human use. 

You most certainly crossed the line when you cannot tell with certainty what you have injected into your players. That alone has nothing to do with performance enhancing but the worst failure of duty of care.


----------



## banco (19 August 2013)

kennas said:


> I agree.
> 
> Like walking in freezing cold water the day after playing aids recovery. Like making sure you consume sufficient proteins after a game to aid in regeneration of the muscles. Llike carbo loading from Thursday night to aid in maximum energy. Like getting a pain killing injection at half time after a dislocated finger. Like being stitched up at three quarter time. Where is the line in the sand? The line is the legally placed left and right of arc by the governing bodies. If Essendon have crossed that line, then fine. Proof?




If they administered AOD (which haven't denied) then they administered a banned substance.  There's an old legal saying:

“These are my final words on advocacy. If you have the facts on your side, hammer the facts. If you have the law on your side, hammer the law. If you have neither the facts nor the law, hammer the table.”

Essendon isn't arguing the facts, they are down to arguing procedural issues (only an interim report, can AFL and ASADA cooperate under ASADA's Act etc.).  Pretty soon they'll down to hammering the table.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (21 August 2013)

banco said:


> Pretty soon they'll down to hammering the table.




Not "they" so much as Hird alone.  :viking:

How ridiculous does he look?


----------



## MrBurns (22 August 2013)

I don't see any criminal charges pending

It all revolves around using peptides that weren't banned at time

Diimtrious is an over paid fool who should be replaced


----------



## IFocus (22 August 2013)

If it was the national swimming team do you recon they would let a coach try and dictate terms?


----------



## Trembling Hand (22 August 2013)

MrBurns said:


> I don't see any criminal charges pending
> 
> It all revolves around using peptides that weren't banned at time
> 
> Diimtrious is an over paid fool who should be replaced




Burns you cannot be serious. Hird is cooked.


----------



## chiff (22 August 2013)

My twenty cents worth..Essendon are on a hiding to nothing,if nothing else,the catch all bringing the game into disrepute will do them in.
And that they have certainly done in spades.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (22 August 2013)

IFocus said:


> If it was the national swimming team do you recon they would let a coach try and dictate terms?




Hird's different, and that's the point you're making, I think.  It's interesting because he has such a strong belief in himself.  Guys with strong beliefs in _anything_ take a long time to crack, and when they do it's not pretty.  The strength of belief is what made him successful, and now it will be his undoing.  Shakespeare could have written this.  Act 4, scenes 5-10 - Hird in denial.


----------



## Knobby22 (22 August 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Hird's different, and that's the point you're making, I think.  It's interesting because he has such a strong belief in himself.  Guys with strong beliefs in _anything_ take a long time to crack, and when they do it's not pretty.  The strength of belief is what made him successful, and now it will be his undoing.  Shakespeare could have written this.  Act 4, scenes 5-10 - Hird in denial.




Well put.

_All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts,_

His reliance on Little is now a crutch, if Little abandons him then his fall will be complete.


----------



## stewiejp (22 August 2013)

chiff said:


> My twenty cents worth..Essendon are on a hiding to nothing,if nothing else,the catch all bringing the game into disrepute will do them in.
> And that they have certainly done in spades.




The game certainly has been bought into disrepute, but by who? Essendon, the AFL, the media? I would argue the media are the ones who have bought the game into disrepute IF the "supplements" *weren't* on the banned list at the time (which is what I understand/read somewhere), but the AFL has no jurisdiction over the media, unless the sue in the courts in which case the media will likely win.

Having said that, if the supplements* were *on the banned list, even as an Essendon supporter, I would be all for the Bombers spending some time in the VFL as punishment.


----------



## pixel (22 August 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> Burns you cannot be serious. Hird is cooked.




There seems to be a letter missing. Maybe an "r"?

Sad story, actually, which is repeated all too often:
You have a chap that can run and jump and catch - doing well in his sport, so everybody admires him *for THAT skill.* And he is given big money *for THAT skill.* But then he thinks he is really an all-round Divine Being, who can do no wrong in all aspects of life. From that feeling of self-importance is but a small step to the illusion (DElusion?) "I am above the Law and everything I do and say must be accepted by those around me. *I am right. Everybody that disagrees with me is wrong!*"


----------



## chiff (22 August 2013)

Bringing the game into disrepute....We only know what we get from the media,but didn't the players have to sign a waiver before they took part in the experimental substance experiments.Only one player refused to do so we are told.
Why are the parents being assured at meetings that their sons have not been given any dangerous substances?
I see Essendon are trying to divert  blame from themselves-probably postponing the inevitable.
All will be revealed in due course .But not if Essendon can stop it.


----------



## nomore4s (22 August 2013)

stewiejp said:


> The game certainly has been bought into disrepute, but by who? Essendon, the AFL, the media? I would argue the media are the ones who have bought the game into disrepute IF the "supplements" *weren't* on the banned list at the time (which is what I understand/read somewhere), but the AFL has no jurisdiction over the media, unless the sue in the courts in which case the media will likely win.
> 
> Having said that, if the supplements* were *on the banned list, even as an Essendon supporter, I would be all for the Bombers spending some time in the VFL as punishment.




I don't get why Essendon supporters are constantly blaming the media and the AFL for the situation they are in. EFC are the ones that let this happen at their own club and are now paying the price for it.

Whether they did administer banned drugs or not, what went on at the club in 2012 is a disgrace and the club and people involved deserve to pay a price for it. Ziggy's report and Dr Reid's letter are proof enough for me that Essendon lost control of some of it's employee's and put players health and playing careers at risk because of it. And more and more evidence is coming out that makes it look like Hird was at the centre of it all.

How Essendon supporters continue to blame everyone else but aren't angry at the club is amazing. If this happened at Hawthorn I would be furious with the club and everyone involved.


----------



## Trembling Hand (22 August 2013)

nomore4s said:


> How Essendon supporters continue to blame everyone else but aren't angry at the club is amazing. If this happened at Hawthorn I would be furious with the club and everyone involved.




Yep and you would want the club to drop whoever was involved like a stinking bag of dog poop on fire before they take down the whole club.


----------



## Sean K (22 August 2013)

Love you long time nomore-premierships-for-hawks, but; there is a line. Somewhere. All other clubs must be in an absolute panic right now because of their own 'programs'. All clubs have a program. Essendon just did what was expected. Have a program within the legal limits to make the players as physically ready as possible. Not to necessarily make them run faster, or jump higher, or be stronger; just to recover in time for the next game. Let's all take a breath here. 

The media throng continue to sensationalise this, and it's shocking. Caro has a thing about Essendon, and she is the main protagonist with this trial by media debacle. Her attack on Tim Watson today was particularly disturbing. What have you done for the game Caro? At this stage, any of your tabloid commentary means nothing compared to the years and years of blood sweat and tears provided by amazing athletes and servants of the game. When was the last time you pulled the boots on? I'm disgusted that someone with so little skin in the game can manipulate people's minds like this. 

Go James! Take Dimheadrio to the cleaners.

I'm embarrassed he's an Essendon supporter.


----------



## nomore4s (22 August 2013)

Hopefully there is a premiership for the Hawks this year, given our injury list we have no excuses, hahaha.

I have no issue with having a program to do what you can to aid recovery and I also don't think Essendon set out to dope players but there is no doubt they lost total control of their program and took it further in regards to some of the exotic drugs used and the amount of injections given.

The fact they let guys like Dank and Robinson work pretty much unchecked, especially given Dank's fairly well known history. Reid's letter highlights Dank's past was known and even Reid could see what would happen in the press if the program was not controlled.

Blaming the media is a cop out imo, this is one of the biggest scandals to ever take place in Australia sport, what do you think the media would do? 

Essendon's own internal report is pretty damning and the more that comes out the more amazed I am that the people in charge at Essendon could let it get so out of control. How Essendon supporters can continue to stand by Hird amazes me.


----------



## Sean K (22 August 2013)

This is only a scandal because the Labor Party needed to divert attention away from their ineptitude and papers were losing money. Fairfax has made a deal with the devil here. It's not about sport; it's about power, and selling newspapers.

The bottom line is; did Essendon knowingly take 'illegal, performance enhancing drugs banned by ASADA?

No.


----------



## boofhead (22 August 2013)

The St Kilda player probably wasn't aware he was consuming a banned substance.

As for Essendon - ASADA made a little bit of a mess. If they followed WADA more closely the hole would have been more closed- people involved would have known they were using something they shouldn't.

I don't think the issue has anything to do with Labor although it was them that had a press conference about the ACC report. Something at Essendon would have leaked and media would have been all over it.

Golden Boy Hird needs to take responsibility for what he has said - that is he takes full responsibility. Man up.


----------



## nulla nulla (22 August 2013)

kennas said:


> This is only a scandal because the Labor Party needed to divert attention away from their ineptitude and papers were losing money. Fairfax has made a deal with the devil here. It's not about sport; it's about power, and selling newspapers.
> 
> The bottom line is; did Essendon knowingly take 'illegal, performance enhancing drugs banned by ASADA?
> 
> No.




Yes!


----------



## pixel (22 August 2013)

kennas said:


> This is only a scandal because the Labor Party needed to divert attention away from their ineptitude and papers were losing money. Fairfax has made a deal with the devil here. It's not about sport; it's about power, and selling newspapers.
> 
> The bottom line is; did Essendon knowingly take 'illegal, performance enhancing drugs banned by ASADA?
> 
> No.




Oh puhhleeeeze!
Football may be kind of a religion to some Victorians, but isn't it a bit far-fetched to compare the shenanigans of one team and the ineptitude or otherwise of the Federal Government???

With one item I agree: It's not about Sport. "It" being Essendon as well as the AFL in general. It's about money - far too much for some guys in shorts prancing around an oval and believing they're Gods.


----------



## gav (22 August 2013)

kennas said:


> The bottom line is; did Essendon *knowingly *take 'illegal, performance enhancing drugs banned by ASADA?




"Knowingly" makes no difference. A bit like Warnie's "my mum gave it to me".


----------



## IFocus (22 August 2013)

kennas said:


> The bottom line is; did Essendon knowingly take 'illegal, performance enhancing drugs banned by ASADA?
> 
> No.




Sheezes Kennas the dons failed to do the basics regarding documenting what they were doing and to whom this alone in any western football code (certainly in any Olympic sport) world wide would mean serious sanctions.

And you blame the press WTF

To be honest I am amazed Hird has had such a free run the press should be ripping him apart.


----------



## nomore4s (23 August 2013)

kennas said:


> This is only a scandal because the Labor Party needed to divert attention away from their ineptitude and papers were losing money. Fairfax has made a deal with the devil here. It's not about sport; it's about power, and selling newspapers.
> 
> The bottom line is; did Essendon knowingly take 'illegal, performance enhancing drugs banned by ASADA?
> 
> No.




Surely you don't believe that Kennas, bit tin hat.

There is a scandal because Essendon lost control of its supplement program in a big way. If you think Essendon did nothing wrong because it didn't knowingly take performance enhancing drugs banned by ASADA you have been drinking too much of the cool aid James Hird has been giving out.

Ziggy's report and Reid's letter is enough to show how out of hand things got at Essendon last year. I really can not believe that Essendon supporters aren't filthy about what went on there last year. If even one player suffers health issues from the stuff they were given it will get even uglier for Essendon.


----------



## Knobby22 (23 August 2013)

I'm an Essendon supporter and live in the Essendon area. I was at a function last night with many Essendon supporters and everyone I talked to wanted Hird to disappear. 

I think the change in opinion has only really happened over the last two weeks. Essendon need to bite the bullet and sack him.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (23 August 2013)

The highly paid SC will enable Hird to continue on for a while.  That's what enablers do, they enable... for a price.

With the tide very much against him, what next for Hird?  When Kennett was unceremoniously kicked from office, no one knows what happened, but he re-appeared as the Beyond Blue spokesman... so you can guess what happened.  Something similar is on the cards I think.


----------



## Sean K (23 August 2013)

I'm not taking my Essendon goggles off until the fat lady sings...


----------



## MrBurns (23 August 2013)

kennas said:


> I'm not taking my Essendon goggles off until the fat lady sings...



Well said


----------



## Ves (23 August 2013)

kennas said:


> I'm not taking my Essendon goggles off until the fat lady sings...



I think we're all but given in now Kennas.   Little will hopefully find agreement with the AFL that means it will be short term pain,  for longer term gain.  Our governance is the biggest issue and we have admitted that all along.  The circus that was the trial by media was a disgrace.

My feeling is that 2013 finals will be forfeit,   Hirdy may sit out a year (or quit altogether) and we will get a fine from the AFL.    

Probably don't deserve much more IMO - unless they can prove we broke rules,  and judging by the "bringing the game into disrepute" charge,  that has not evenuated and is dependent on the final ASADA report.


----------



## Duckman#72 (25 August 2013)

nomore4s said:


> Ziggy's report and Reid's letter is enough to show how out of hand things got at Essendon last year. I really can not believe that Essendon supporters aren't filthy about what went on there last year.




Of course we are Nomores! But that doesn't negate our belief that Essendon has been pummeled all along by the media. Caro and Patrick Smith can curl up in bed and have a satisfactory smoke together because it is likely to reach the climax they were both hoping for.

Not satisfied that Hird is likely to be suspended, Smith is now arguing for Hird never to coach again. 

What Essendon supporters are particularly aggrieved at Nomores is that via a tip off and pressure from the AFL they opened the doors to ASADA, the AFL and ultimately the world via the media. They did this on the basis that they were suspected of using banned drugs and it would be "better for everyone if they cooperated." Essendon has been nothing but open and upfront with the investigation and have not stonewalled, shirked their responsibility or behaved in a manner that could be described as anything but professional. They commissioned their own report.

Now after 6 months, despite ASADA coming back with an interim report of no confirmed breaches, the AFL is using Essendon's own report as well as the ASADA report  to hang us. Makes you wonder how Essendon would have faired if they had of stared down Demetriou back in Feb and said, "We don't believe we have given our players banned substances. We are not coming out and saying anything. You show us the proof".

Hird is guilty of trusting and relying on specialists that let him and the team down. Checks and balances weren't put in place. What is the price to pay? A large portion of the media( including Patrick Smith) seem to accept that it was not Essendon's intention to cheat. ASADA has come out and said they have no evidence of cheating for specific players. Why then should we lose draft points. Fine us, suspend us but leave losing points to salary cap rorts and confirmed widespread systematic performance enhancing doping. 

Hird's press conference was very strong tonight. Gotta love him. Great win by the boys!!!!! Great to beat the blues.

Duckman


----------



## Sean K (25 August 2013)

Duckman#72 said:


> Of course we are Nomores! But that doesn't negate our belief that Essendon has been pummeled all along by the media. Caro and Patrick Smith can curl up in bed and have a satisfactory smoke together because it is likely to reach the climax they were both hoping for.
> 
> Not satisfied that Hird is likely to be suspended, Smith is now arguing for Hird never to coach again.
> 
> ...



Well said.

Nuff said.


----------



## MrBurns (25 August 2013)

kennas said:


> Well said.
> 
> Nuff said.



.

+1


----------



## sammy84 (25 August 2013)

So Hird gets suspended for 1 year, after which he will return to Essendon as coach again. So what's the point?! All this does is breaks the hearts of supporters. I understand when a player is suspended, as their output has a direct influence on the field. Suspending a coach just seems like the AFL is trying to prove a point. 

And to make the team miss finals for corporate governance issues.....Penalties don't seem to fit the crime.

If any of this was happening to a poorer team i.e Melbourne, I think the AFL and the public in general would've reacted avery differently.


----------



## MrBurns (25 August 2013)

sammy84 said:


> So Hird gets suspended for 1 year, after which he will return to Essendon as coach again. So what's the point?! All this does is breaks the hearts of supporters. I understand when a player is suspended, as their output has a direct influence on the field. Suspending a coach just seems like the AFL is trying to prove a point.
> 
> And to make the team miss finals for corporate governance issues.....Penalties don't seem to fit the crime.
> 
> If any of this was happening to a poorer team i.e Melbourne, I think the AFL and the public in general would've reacted avery differently.




I think the reaction from all supporters and teams will be more than they expect, this is preposterous.


----------



## banco (25 August 2013)

sammy84 said:


> So Hird gets suspended for 1 year, after which he will return to Essendon as coach again. So what's the point?! All this does is breaks the hearts of supporters. I understand when a player is suspended, as their output has a direct influence on the field. Suspending a coach just seems like the AFL is trying to prove a point.
> 
> And to make the team miss finals for corporate governance issues.....Penalties don't seem to fit the crime.
> 
> If any of this was happening to a poorer team i.e Melbourne, I think the AFL and the public in general would've reacted avery differently.




Corporate governance issues?  The administration of who knows what (Hird certainly doesn't seem to know) to players (who may or may not have long term health issues as a result).  You have Reed write to the team management that the program shouldn't be continued and they keep it going.

The cult of St James continues.


----------



## Tink (25 August 2013)

I have sat on the fence for this, but if drugs were involved, I am not impressed.

What are you talking about with Melbourne, we were pulled over the coals and so were Carlton, which just now have started to come back.


----------



## sammy84 (25 August 2013)

Tink said:


> I have sat on the fence for this, but if drugs were involved, I am not impressed.
> 
> What are you talking about with Melbourne, we were pulled over the coals and so were Carlton, which just now have started to come back.




Melbourne got a fine. Not much else.

Carlton knowingly engaged in cheating.

The punishment doesn't fit the crime. Either Essendon gave players illegal drugs or not. Currently, ASADA do not believe that Essendon did - so how can you possibly suspend a team from playing finals? And draft pick penalties? Such penalties should only be levied at a team who cheated - which as it currently stands Essendon didn't.

The AFL should either charge Essendon for doping or move on. This is all a saving face exercise.


----------



## MrBurns (25 August 2013)

banco said:


> Corporate governance issues?  The administration of who knows what (Hird certainly doesn't seem to know) to players (who may or may not have long term health issues as a result).  You have Reed write to the team management that the program shouldn't be continued and they keep it going.
> 
> The cult of St James continues.




I still missed the part where he broke any laws or administered drugs that were banned at the time, oh but that's ok lets rub the whole team out anyway


----------



## Gringotts Bank (25 August 2013)

Sammy/Burns, whether Essendon were administering banned drugs or not, the game was brought into disrepute.  There was a chiropractor in South Yarra injecting players with medicines designed for Muscular Dystrophy patients, obtained in Mexico by a third party!  Come on guys.  Doctor Read should have said "Stop this crap or I'm leaving", but he didn't put his foot down.  Hird should have taken his letter seriously.  Neither of those things happened.   

Had Hird gone to the AFL earlier and told them he'd stuffed up, he'd be coaching a team in the finals.  The AFL would have been more lenient.  Essendon got in with the wrong crowd.  Chiropractors are very dodgy types; Dank and Robinson were just too tricky.  Hird's ambition blinded him.


----------



## MrBurns (25 August 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Sammy/Burns, whether Essendon were administering banned drugs or not, the game was brought into disrepute.  There was a chiropractor in South Yarra injecting players with medicines designed for Muscular Dystrophy patients, obtained in Mexico by a third party!  Come on guys.  Doctor Read should have said "Stop this crap or I'm leaving", but he didn't put his foot down.  Hird should have taken his letter seriously.  Neither of those things happened.
> 
> Had Hird gone to the AFL earlier and told them he'd stuffed up, he'd be coaching a team in the finals.  The AFL would have been more lenient.  Essendon got in with the wrong crowd.  Chiropractors are very dodgy types; Dank and Robinson were just too tricky.  Hird's ambition blinded him.




The game was not brought into disrepute...............until Andrew Demetriou decided to make it so.

Drugs used on MS patients ? that means nothing without evidence that it was illegal or harmful.

As Essendons QC says the AFL have acted disgracefully, and if the finals continue without Essendon damage will be inflicted on the game that cant be repaired.


----------



## chiff (26 August 2013)

A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest"
A lot  of selective listening going on around here-and creating ones own reality.Does anyone understand the difference between illegal behaviour and bringing the game into disrepute?
Being interested in publicly listed companies we all should be able to extrapolate the behaviour of the Essendon FC to the share market.Nothing ethical with Essendon.


----------



## MrBurns (26 August 2013)

chiff said:


> A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest"
> A lot  of selective listening going on around here-and creating ones own reality.Does anyone understand the difference between illegal behaviour and bringing the game into disrepute?
> .




Yeah sure do, only one is illegal, if people were thrown out for someone's "interpretation" of bringing a game or company into disrepute then half the companies around would be finished.

The entire NSW Labor Govt acted illegally and was only dispatched when finally cornered, if anyone had have mentioned "disrepute" they would have been laughed out of town.


----------



## chiff (26 August 2013)

The sanctions will be brought out soon I believe.Maybe the  remarks accompanying will help your understanding-but I doubt it!


----------



## MrBurns (26 August 2013)

chiff said:


> The sanctions will be brought out soon I believe.Maybe the  remarks accompanying will help your understanding-but I doubt it!




I think a lot of people wont agree with the remarks including Julian Burnside QC, who has a some understanding of these matters I think.
I don't need any help understanding injustice, I understand it full well.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (26 August 2013)

MrBurns said:


> The game was not brought into disrepute...............until Andrew Demetriou decided to make it so.
> 
> Drugs used on MS patients ? that means nothing without evidence that it was illegal or harmful.
> 
> As Essendons QC says the AFL have acted disgracefully, and if the finals continue without Essendon damage will be inflicted on the game that cant be repaired.




I'm not a fan of Demetriou either, but the game needs to be kept squeaky clean.  Essendon were getting too far into the grey zone and needed pulling back.  Read's letter proves this.


----------



## MrBurns (26 August 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> I'm not a fan of Demetriou either, but the game needs to be kept squeaky clean.  Essendon were getting too far into the grey zone and needed pulling back.  Read's letter proves this.




A warning from the AFL would have done that instead of entrapment and victimisation...


----------



## Gringotts Bank (26 August 2013)

MrBurns said:


> A warning from the AFL would have done that instead of entrapment and victimisation...




There's definitely a power struggle going on between Hird and Demetriou.  Had Hird been a bit more flexible early in the piece, I think a warning may have been all that ensued.  Now he's dragged the whole team down, unfortunately.  Too much righteousness.


----------



## Trembling Hand (26 August 2013)

MrBurns said:


> A warning from the AFL would have done that instead of entrapment and victimisation...




MrBurns, what would you think if your young son was injected 100s of times over the course of a year or two with products that their employer couldn't tell you what was in them and others that were not approved for human use?


----------



## MrBurns (26 August 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> MrBurns, what would you think if your young son was injected 100s of times over the course of a year or two with products that their employer couldn't tell you what was in them and others that were not approved for human use?




I don't believe Hird would be that irresponsible, that's dangerous, any fool can see that and Hird's no fool.

It cant possibly be as simple as that.


----------



## jancha (26 August 2013)

:xyxthumb







Gringotts Bank said:


> There's definitely a power struggle going on between Hird and Demetriou.  Had Hird been a bit more flexible early in the piece, I think a warning may have been all that ensued.  Now he's dragged the whole team down, unfortunately.  Too much righteousness.


----------



## Duckman#72 (26 August 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> There's definitely a power struggle going on between Hird and Demetriou.  Had Hird been a bit more flexible early in the piece, I think a warning may have been all that ensued.  Now he's dragged the whole team down, unfortunately.  Too much righteousness.




Then that is just plain bias. 

Surely Hird and Essendon should be being penalised on the FACTS. Not some sort of "perceived justice". How has Hird's dogged determination to defend himself and the club ALTERED what happened with the supplements program? 

You have just highlighted the case why Hird wants an independent panel to review the penalty. How much of Hird's ultimate penalty will be as a result of what happened in 2011/12 and how much as a result of the past 3 months shadowboxing with the AFL via the media? 

Duckman


----------



## sammy84 (26 August 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> MrBurns, what would you think if your young son was injected 100s of times over the course of a year or two with products that their employer couldn't tell you what was in them and others that were not approved for human use?




How would you feel if they let your son play with a rubber band in his knee, so he didn't have to under go a knee reco. We don't know the long term affect of LARS yet. 

Or got a jab so he could keep playing, without knowing the full extent of his injury?

It's all a bit much.


----------



## Trembling Hand (26 August 2013)

sammy84 said:


> How would you feel if they let your son play with a rubber band in his knee, so he didn't have to under go a knee reco. We don't know the long term affect of LARS yet.
> 
> Or got a jab so he could keep playing, without knowing the full extent of his injury?
> 
> It's all a bit much.




That is nonsense. Pain killers and lars are TESTED and approved with our current medical knowledge. They are also WITHIN the agreed rules. They are also documented within the club and administered by medical professional under what we call medicine.


----------



## sammy84 (26 August 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> That is nonsense. Pain killers and lars are TESTED and approved with our current medical knowledge. They are also WITHIN the agreed rules. They are also documented within the club and administered by medical professional under what we call medicine.




Pain killers might be, but using them to mask pain to keep playing is surely putting players at risk.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (26 August 2013)

sammy84 said:


> Pain killers might be, but using them to mask pain to keep playing is surely putting players at risk.




This happens a lot, particularly around finals time, but the player will be fully informed about what could happen in a worst case scenario.  If a tissue is structurally sound but inflamed, it's normally ok to does up on painkillers and steroid anti-inflammatories.  Then you strap it up so it can't move and hope for the best.  If a joint is not structurally sound, then no matter what you inject, it's not going to work ...plus there's risk of further damage.  Coaches and players would understand that.


----------



## pixel (26 August 2013)

MrBurns said:


> I don't believe Hird would be that irresponsible, that's dangerous, any fool can see that and Hird's no fool.
> 
> It cant possibly be as simple as that.




There is a vast difference between being intelligent where others are concerned, and knowing right from wrong where one's own personal integrity is on the line.
Someone with as huge an Ego as JH will continue to live in denial, telling himself and everybody within earshot "I'm beyond reproach. Everything I did was in the best interest of all concerned. Accusations are just a witch hunt by those who don't realise my being a genius."
Anybody with the moral backbone of a sea urchin would admit "Sorry, I stuffed up. I was blinded by the desire for success and lost the plot. My decisions were wrong, and I'll accept responsibility for my failing."

... but if one has money enough to keep a mob of QCs in business, ...


----------



## sammy84 (26 August 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> This happens a lot, particularly around finals time, but the player will be fully informed about what could happen in a worst case scenario.




I'm fairly certain when Adam Goodes was playing on one leg last year in the GF, no one informed him at half time what the long term risks were.

Footy is a dangerous game. I don't buy into this whole putting players 'at risk'. Essendon either did something illegal or not. As it stands - no player has been charged. It should be fairly black or white.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (26 August 2013)

sammy84 said:


> I'm fairly certain when Adam Goodes was playing on one leg last year in the GF, no one informed him at half time what the long term risks were.
> 
> Footy is a dangerous game. I don't buy into this whole putting players 'at risk'. Essendon either did something illegal or not. As it stands - no player has been charged. It should be fairly black or white.




They're not being charged for illegal activity!!!!  

They're being charged for *bringing the game into disrepute*!!  They were doing all sorts of weird stuff.  Have a read of the charges sheet on Google.  It's all there.  And no one can say the penalty is too harsh because that hasn't been decided yet.


----------



## sammy84 (26 August 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> They're not being charged for illegal activity!!!!
> 
> They're being charged for *bringing the game into disrepute*!!  They were doing all sorts of weird stuff.  Have a read of the charges sheet on Google.  It's all there.




The essence of the charge is that Essendon put the player's safety at risk. My argument is that many actions taken everyday by many football clubs do the same.


----------



## MrBurns (26 August 2013)

sammy84 said:


> The essence of the charge is that Essendon put the player's safety at risk. My argument is that many actions taken everyday by many football clubs do the same.




I haven't read much of the details but I don't see where they've put players safety at risk, Hird isn't a doctor, he's not going to pull some voo doo out of a bag and force it down peoples throats, surely.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (26 August 2013)

sammy84 said:


> The essence of the charge is that Essendon put the player's safety at risk. My argument is that *many actions *taken everyday by many football clubs do the same.




Like what?

Players are worth a lot of money as you know.  A club won't risk putting them out of action by worsening an injury.  It's like thoroughbred horses - they get pushed to their limit, but never beyond.  The heath care staff are in constant communication with the coaches about when it's ok to resume play.


----------



## sammy84 (26 August 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Like what?




My example with Goodes earlier. He might have done irreparable damage to his body which will affect him later in life.

West Coast when they hid their culture of illegal drug use. 

When teams target a player's injury.

Could go on.

My point is - the game is dangerous. Either Essendon did something illegal or not. Currently they didn't, so everyone should move on. I know this won't happen though.


----------



## MrBurns (26 August 2013)

sammy84 said:


> My example with Goodes earlier. He might have done irreparable damage to his body which will affect him later in life.
> 
> West Coast when they hid their culture of illegal drug use.
> 
> ...




Not to mention countless players going out getting seriously drunk and into trouble with the police.


----------



## jancha (26 August 2013)

pixel said:


> There is a vast difference between being intelligent where others are concerned, and knowing right from wrong where one's own personal integrity is on the line.
> Someone with as huge an Ego as JH will continue to live in denial, telling himself and everybody within earshot "I'm beyond reproach. Everything I did was in the best interest of all concerned. Accusations are just a witch hunt by those who don't realise my being a genius."
> Anybody with the moral backbone of a sea urchin would admit "Sorry, I stuffed up. I was blinded by the desire for success and lost the plot. My decisions were wrong, and I'll accept responsibility for my failing."
> 
> ... but if one has money enough to keep a mob of QCs in business, ...






Arrogance comes to mind.


----------



## Sean K (26 August 2013)

This is killing me.

I've factored in lots of pain here, hoping for anything less than draft picks taken. The points loss and suspension of James are probably in the can.


----------



## Duckman#72 (26 August 2013)

kennas said:


> This is killing me.
> 
> I've factored in lots of pain here, hoping for anything less than draft picks taken. The points loss and suspension of James are probably in the can.




Me too:1zhelp:

Hopefully keep the draft picks, lose the points, drop out of finals, give us a fine and we lose Hirdy for a bit. 

They are certainly playing hardball. In my opinion the AFL have more to lose than Essendon if they don't get this deal done tonight. I think footy people in general think the above is pretty reasonable under the circumstances.

Essendon won't accept draft pick losses as well as points and Hird for a season. They better not.

Duckman


----------



## MrBurns (26 August 2013)

Duckman#72 said:


> Me too:1zhelp:
> 
> In my opinion the AFL have more to lose than Essendon if they don't get this deal done tonight. I think footy people in general think the above is pretty reasonable under the circumstances.
> 
> ...




If they take Essendon out of the finals they can stick their final series up their a*** and it wont be just Essendon supporters who feel that way.


----------



## Duckman#72 (26 August 2013)

kennas said:


> This is killing me.
> 
> I've factored in lots of pain here, hoping for anything less than draft picks taken. The points loss and suspension of James are probably in the can.




Just heard on ABC that talks will resume tomorrow. Essendon to lose points and miss finals but sticking point is Hird not accepting suspension.

Duckman


----------



## Sean K (26 August 2013)

One of the major factors in all this is that Essendon have bargaining power. The AFL needs them and their 50,000 members and years of service as a foundation team and most premierships. Not much mitigation but a factor important to the AFL. Money v integrity.


----------



## banco (26 August 2013)

MrBurns said:


> I haven't read much of the details but I don't see where they've put players safety at risk, Hird isn't a doctor, he's not going to pull some voo doo out of a bag and force it down peoples throats, surely.




Nah he left that to the quacks they were employing (and continued to employ after the team doctor wrote a letter saying it should be stopped).


----------



## sammy84 (26 August 2013)

banco said:


> Nah he left that to the quacks they were employing (and continued to employ after the team doctor wrote a letter saying it should be stopped).




Geelong and Gold Coast employed these same quacks.....


----------



## Gringotts Bank (27 August 2013)

sammy84 said:


> Geelong and Gold Coast employed these same quacks.....




They did.  And this is one of the many charges that should and will be dropped from the ridiculously long charge sheet.  By the way, the physio at GC asked for Dank to be sacked.  Eventually he was, but it wasn't easy because he'd already got in with the powers that be.


----------



## Duckman#72 (27 August 2013)

Looks like we are going to lose draft picks as well.

Completely over the top.:frown:

Duckman


----------



## MrBurns (27 August 2013)

Hird out for a year............unbelievable.


----------



## Sean K (27 August 2013)

Most significant sanctions in AFL history and no one guilty of doping.

James can attend games and will coach in next years finals. 

I'll be there on Saturday, Richmond will be toast.

Get around them Bombers!!


----------



## prawn_86 (28 August 2013)

The AFL dictatorship continues. Must be one of the few publicly visible businesses in Australia that has absolute power over its members etc


----------



## Tink (28 August 2013)

Mark Thompson said alot last night about the situation and about Essendon.

Alot was leaked to the media that shouldnt have, and Hird administered those drugs even though he was told not to go down that path.

Bottom line is --  those players were administered drugs and they dont have any data of what it was or how it will affect them.


----------



## MrBurns (28 August 2013)

Tink said:


> Mark Thompson said alot last night about the situation and about Essendon.
> 
> Alot was leaked to the media that shouldnt have, and Hird administered those drugs even though he was told not to go down that path.
> 
> Bottom line is --  those players were administered drugs and they dont have any data of what it was or how it will affect them.




I don't believe that
What's the use of using supplements if you don't know what they are. ?

There's no way anyone would administer those and not keep records.


----------



## Tink (28 August 2013)

Mr Burns, he was defending both, there is alot we dont know, but he didnt agree with the supplements, and as mentioned, he was asked why he didnt push for it to be stopped.

He also said the way the AFL dealt with it was wrong, but he also mentioned things about the Club.

I am sure there is alot more to it.  
I can see it from both sides.


----------



## MrBurns (28 August 2013)

Tink said:


> Mr Burns, he was defending both, there is alot we dont know, but he didnt agree with the supplements, and as mentioned, he was asked why he didnt push for it to be stopped.
> 
> He also said the way the AFL dealt with it was wrong, but he also mentioned things about the Club.
> 
> ...




I'd like to see the other side and I'm sure there is one but things like "hundreds of injections" without knowing what the drugs were is just stupid, Hird and Essendon accepted the punishment so that's it I guess.

I think there's too much we weren't told.


----------



## nulla nulla (28 August 2013)

This thread has been fascinating lately, particularly the comparisons of viewpoint of the devotees and the non devotees. 

The devotees favour the Lance Armstrong line of argument "We didn't do anything wrong, it's a conspiracy against us by those who are jealous of our success". The nondevotees are howled down for their objective arguments as to there being a program; the secrecy surrounding what drugs were injected; the frequency of the injections; and the possible health issues for the players in years to come as a result of this program.

It has been a bit like watching someone who has been diagnosed with cancer going through the emotional stages:

Denial;
Anger;
Bargaining;
Depression; and finally
Acceptance.

Some of the devotees posting here appear not to have reached the acceptance stage yet. Essendon brought this on themselves. I would bet that a silent majority of fans are disgusted, particularly at the aspect that the players have been treated with scant disregard in respect of possible effects on their long term health. The truth will come out and there aren't enough brooms in Australia to sweep it under the carpet.


----------



## MrBurns (28 August 2013)

nulla nulla said:


> This thread has been fascinating lately, particularly the comparisons of viewpoint of the devotees and the non devotees.
> 
> The devotees favour the Lance Armstrong line of argument "We didn't do anything wrong, it's a conspiracy against us by those who are jealous of our success". The nondevotees are howled down for their objective arguments as to there being a program; the secrecy surrounding what drugs were injected; the frequency of the injections; and the possible health issues for the players in years to come as a result of this program.
> 
> ...




There was compelling evidence against Armstrong for doping and illegal activates, not so with Essendon, it seems the AFL think guilty by rumour is ok.

No one would take or administer a drug without knowing what it is and to suggest otherwise is just plain rubbish.


----------



## chiff (28 August 2013)

prawn_86 said:


> The AFL dictatorship continues. Must be one of the few publicly visible businesses in Australia that has absolute power over its members etc




Of course-If you want to play in the AFL or any visible club or organisation,one must abide by the rules of that organisation.Often these rules or laws are not the same as the laws of the land.If not the option is to cease being a member.All players and clubs sign up to this with these organisations.Did Essendon sign up to abide by the code?
Why do you think that cricket players are fined and sanctioned by their organisation?
Clubs like bikie gangs have their own code,but it is not visible from the outside.We read about extreme punishments being handed out to violators of their code.


----------



## nulla nulla (28 August 2013)

MrBurns said:


> There was compelling evidence against Armstrong for doping and illegal activates, not so with Essendon, it seems the AFL think guilty by rumour is ok.
> 
> No one would take or administer a drug without knowing what it is and to suggest otherwise is just plain rubbish.




Yeah right!


----------



## prawn_86 (28 August 2013)

chiff said:


> Of course-If you want to play in the AFL or any visible club or organisation,one must abide by the rules of that organisation.Often these rules or laws are not the same as the laws of the land.If not the option is to cease being a member.All players and clubs sign up to this with these organisations.Did Essendon sign up to abide by the code?
> Why do you think that cricket players are fined and sanctioned by their organisation?
> Clubs like bikie gangs have their own code,but it is not visible from the outside.We read about extreme punishments being handed out to violators of their code.




'Bringing the game into disrepute" is a law akin to saying, if you do something we don't like, we will punish you


----------



## chiff (28 August 2013)

By George Prawn.....I think that you have got it!On the road to understanding there are many pitfalls Grasshopper>
Not being an Essendon supporter I cannot take any of this seriously.


----------



## MrBurns (28 August 2013)

chiff said:


> By George Prawn.....I think that you have got it!On the road to understanding there are many pitfalls Grasshopper>
> Not being an Essendon supporter I cannot take any of this seriously.




Might be your turn next time.


----------



## chiff (28 August 2013)

MrBurns said:


> Might be your turn next time.




It has been already -I am a Crows supporter.And for me this is a little slice of karma.
I heard one Victorian journalist refer to the Crows salary cap breach last night,The Crows have never exceeded their salary cap.They did a deal with Tippet to keep him for another year in return for a clearance to any club that he wished-draft tampering.
My thoughts were what kind of dildoes have we got administering the club.I think that Essendon supporters should have the same view.A little mea culpa please.Life goes on.


----------



## Logique (28 August 2013)

MrBurns said:


> Might be your turn next time.



So Essendon are out of the finals.

Good one AFL, punish the innocents, the players and the fans. Melbourne Storm all over again.

Radio saying Dr Reid will contest the charge, good on him.


----------



## MrBurns (28 August 2013)

Oh hello, here's a syringe, what's in it ? 

I dunno.

Well let all line up and have some.

Doesn't really ring true to me.

The AFL have buggered the competition for this year and next, many supporters wont be happy until something changes, and perhaps removing Demetirou on $2M per annum......................would be a good start.


----------



## Trembling Hand (28 August 2013)

MrBurns said:


> Oh hello, here's a syringe, what's in it ?
> 
> I dunno.
> 
> ...




Mr Burns there is no doubt that they did exactly that. The club has said that is what they did. Inject some players 100s of time and they cannot be sure what it was or who got what. They have admitted to that. I cannot see how you think they didn't.


----------



## Tink (28 August 2013)

If anyone is interested in Thompsons interview

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdqpv1QVc38


----------



## nulla nulla (28 August 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> Mr Burns there is no doubt that they did exactly that. The club has said that is what they did. Inject some players 100s of time and they cannot be sure what it was or who got what. They have admitted to that. I cannot see how you think they didn't.




May be still in the denial and anger stages. Give him time and he may (reluctantly) come to accept that what Essendon did was actually wrong.


----------



## MrBurns (28 August 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> Mr Burns there is no doubt that they did exactly that. The club has said that is what they did. Inject some players 100s of time and they cannot be sure what it was or who got what. They have admitted to that. I cannot see how you think they didn't.




You've got to be kidding or am I dreaming, are you really suggesting that supplements were given without knowing what they were ?

What would be the point ?
They couldn't judge results for starters.

- - - Updated - - -



nulla nulla said:


> May be still in the denial and anger stages. Give him time and he may (reluctantly) come to accept that what Essendon did was actually wrong.




Just using logic, give it a go sometime


----------



## boofis (28 August 2013)

MrBurns said:


> You've got to be kidding or am I dreaming, are you really suggesting that supplements were given without knowing what they were ?
> 
> What would be the point ?
> They couldn't judge results for starters.
> ...




And you believe they know what they injected into their players but aren't willing to disclose it? It must be a perfectly legal substance then.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (28 August 2013)

boofis said:


> And you believe they know what they injected into their players but aren't willing to disclose it? It must be a perfectly legal substance then.




Yes, either illegal or questionable.  Probably questionable.  

I can't imagine them not keeping some sort of records.  If they *did* keep records, then they were shredded in a hurry soon after the scandal hit - that's disreputable.  If they *didn't* keep records, they were taking huge risks with the players' health  - that's disreputable.  No way around it.  Too bloody bad is all I can say.  If it was my team I wouldn't be complaining about fines or sanctions.


----------



## MrBurns (28 August 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Yes, either illegal or questionable.  Probably questionable.
> 
> I can't imagine them not keeping some sort of records.  If they *did* keep records, then they were shredded in a hurry soon after the scandal hit - that's disreputable.  If they *didn't* keep records, they were taking huge risks with the players' health  - that's disreputable.  No way around it.  Too bloody bad is all I can say.  If it was my team I wouldn't be complaining about fines or sanctions.




I think that's all the stuff we DON'T know and weren't told and the reason Hird laid down.

All this bull about accepting guilt for the good of the club is equally unbelievable.


----------



## boofhead (28 August 2013)

Essendon admitted some players were injected with a substance they don't know what - the one sourced from Mexico. Thompson on Footy Classified looked upset with the club more than anything. Matthew Lloyd some weeks ago made the comment (I think it was him) that after the ASADA interviews McVeigh (I think) came away with a different attitude. More went on than he realised. Dank doesn't want to say anything for some reason.

I don't like how the people involved in the charges didn't seem to have any interview/right of reply. The AFL charged them and it was all about negotiating.

As for comparing to Armstrong - he sued anyone that strong pressed the issue he was a drug cheat as he had never been found to have done anything wrong. He won the cases or people involved settled. After the Four Corners story things fell apart. Now people will be chasing up the money paid out to Armstrong in the settlements - they were lated proved to be correct.

Back to Thompson - I hope some changes he wants happen. I get the impression that because the onfield performances were improving and any issues were kepy inhouse there was no impetus to make needed changes.

Was Hird and co. a bit too single minded?


----------



## Miss Hale (28 August 2013)

You know what I think the root of the problem at Essendon was?  Putting in as senior coach someone who had no coaching experience just because he was the golden haired boy/club hero.  He may have been a good player, he may be a smart guy but _he had never coached before in any capacity_ and he was made senior coach of one of our the teams at the elite level of Australian Rules football.  I think he was out of his depth and through inexperience went down the wrong path. Due to his arrogance he will never admit it and due to the Cult of James Hird at Essendon they will never admit it at the club either.  Evidence of this is the fact that despite all this they have offered him another two year contract in 2015. 

As to the sanctions I am glad some have been imposed but if you look at them closely, apart from the draft pick sanctions, they are a bit weak.


----------



## Duckman#72 (28 August 2013)

nulla nulla said:


> May be still in the denial and anger stages. Give him time and he may (reluctantly) come to accept that what Essendon did was actually wrong.




Like Hird, I've had a hard time trying coming to terms with the charges against him and the Bombers. I'll admit I have underestimated the corporate governance/player welfare aspect. I was more shocked at the "drug cheating" allegations and the ability of Essendon to fight those charges.

What is clearly evident is that even if the charges against Hird fell from 34 to just 1, the AFL was always going to give Hird 12 months and take away the draft picks, take away the points and fine the club. 

Hird has always said he will fight the charges in relate to taking the banned substances and I supported him on that. In the end he actually won that fight. All references to substance abuse, cheating and banned substances were dropped, it's just that the penalties didn't change one bit and were never likely to.

Despite the psycho analysis by Nulla, I don't think it is about anger, denial, acceptance etc - I just have a differing opinion on who was responsible and the culpability issues. Certainly things were done wrongly and very poorly but when you are fighting an opponent like the AFL sometimes you question their independence.

The AFL even had the gall to complain about how long Essendon have taken to bring this to a conclusion, but the AFL never wanted this to end before now. Could you imagine Essendon playing dead games for the past 6 weeks? 

Duckman


----------



## Sean K (28 August 2013)

boofhead said:


> Essendon admitted some players were injected with a substance they don't know what - the one sourced from Mexico. Thompson on Footy Classified looked upset with the club more than anything. Matthew Lloyd some weeks ago made the comment (I think it was him) that after the ASADA interviews McVeigh (I think) came away with a different attitude. More went on than he realised. Dank doesn't want to say anything for some reason.



Like everyone, you're judging this on a void of facts. 'I think it was him', and 'I think', don't seem admissible in a court of law. 

And, you don't know what someone else doesn't know what could have been sourced from Mexico. Mexico makes some fine pharmaceuticals!

- - - Updated - - -



Miss Hale said:


> You know what I think the root of the problem at Essendon was?  Putting in as senior coach someone who had no coaching experience just because he was the golden haired boy/club hero.  He may have been a good player, he may be a smart guy but _he had never coached before in any capacity_ and he was made senior coach of one of our the teams at the elite level of Australian Rules football.



Miss, you're assuming it's like he was the only one making any decisions here. It might have been 30 years ago when we had captain coaches but now we have departments full of people in hierarchies making board level decisions about who puts on what coloured undies for an away match. You would remember that, surely? Do you remember when you played under a captain coach?


----------



## Miss Hale (28 August 2013)

kennas said:


> Like everyone, you're judging this on a void of facts. 'I think it was him', and 'I think', don't seem admissible in a court of law.
> 
> And, you don't know what someone else doesn't know what could have been sourced from Mexico. Mexico makes some fine pharmaceuticals!
> 
> ...




I only ever played Z grade netball, we barely had a captain let alone a coach! I think in the case of Hird he _was_ the one making most of the decisions and the board, rather than deciding what colour undies should be worn, left all such decisions for Hird. It's pretty clear that the board didn't know what was going on re the supplements programme and even Doc Reid was out of the loop.  From what I have gathered from the Bomber Thompson interview he was also in the dark. They all thought so highly of Hird that I think he was given free rein. The only advice Hird seems to have taken was from the likes of Stephen Dank and he (Hird) had no experience in the coaching department of any other AFL club (or even at Essendon under another coach) as a point of reference.


----------



## chiff (29 August 2013)

The law of the land is irrelevant in what happened to Essendon.Essendon signed up to the AFL code,in which I am sure there is a clause,regarding bringing the game into disrepute.
If people cannot see that this is what happened they are still swimming in the longest river in Africa.
Maybe if we compared the AFL to religious organisations.They have their own code and rules.If people do not want to abide by their code they will be ex-communicated  or punished in some way.
Nothing to do with legalities.
(I hear on the radio this morning that the AFL threatened Essendon with ex-communication or de-registering before they caved in and accepted the sanctions)


----------



## nulla nulla (29 August 2013)

Having been scrubbed from AFL for this years finals with no penalties applying to their VFL involvement it is kind of ironic that 21 senior Essendon players are currently entitled to play in the VFL competition finals this year in lieu of the AFL finals. Nah not ironic, more like a bad joke. 

No doubt they will stack their VFL side for the rest of that competition in an effort to take out the "Claytons" grand final.


----------



## boofhead (29 August 2013)

kennas: It is worthwhile watching Footy Classified with the Mark Thompson interview. You'll get some of the admissions from there instead of relying on my memory about who actually said it.


----------



## Sean K (29 August 2013)

boofhead said:


> kennas: It is worthwhile watching Footy Classified with the Mark Thompson interview. You'll get some of the admissions from there instead of relying on my memory about who actually said it.



I watched it. There's still too many holes. I was hoping the hole filling would be positive for Essendon, of course. It hasn't been. 

I find it incomprehensible that punishments have been handed out without Dank's testimony. There has been so much at stake and yet, the man who actually committed the assumed crimes, has not been investigated. Surely, with this level of financial and personal loss, the key witness ought to have been examined.


----------



## MrBurns (29 August 2013)

kennas said:


> I watched it. There's still too many holes. I was hoping the hole filling would be positive for Essendon, of course. It hasn't been.
> 
> I find it incomprehensible that punishments have been handed out without Dank's testimony. There has been so much at stake and yet, the man who actually committed the assumed crimes, has not been investigated. Surely, with this level of financial and personal loss, the key witness ought to have been examined.




I think there's a lot we've never been told, that can be the only explanation.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (29 August 2013)

kennas said:


> I watched it. There's still too many holes. I was hoping the hole filling would be positive for Essendon, of course. It hasn't been.
> 
> I find it incomprehensible that punishments have been handed out without Dank's testimony. There has been so much at stake and yet, the man who actually committed the assumed crimes, has not been investigated. Surely, with this level of financial and personal loss, the key witness ought to have been examined.




You know he refused to be interviewed, right?

Why would someone in that position refuse?  The answer is obvious.

ASADA has the power (apparently) to force Dank to answer questions. This will happen soon.  

And what about the players?  What player would admit to taking horse drugs when his career is on the line?!!  No chance of that happening.  

Time to remove the blinkers?


----------



## Tink (31 August 2013)

I agree boofhead, I thought Thompsons interview was very good.

Interesting poll

Do you think the punishments against James Hird and the Essendon Football Club are fair? 

No, they aren't harsh enough
61%
No, they are too severe
21%
Yes, they are just right
17%


----------



## IFocus (31 August 2013)

kennas said:


> I watched it. There's still too many holes. I was hoping the hole filling would be positive for Essendon, of course. It hasn't been.
> 
> I find it incomprehensible that punishments have been handed out without Dank's testimony. There has been so much at stake and yet, the man who actually committed the assumed crimes, has not been investigated. Surely, with this level of financial and personal loss, the key witness ought to have been examined.




The players mother that rang up expressing her fears sums up a few things.

1. The players where unaware just what was being injected and what the consequences were for health. 

2. Not meeting compliance the club could not verify what was being injected to whom or how much.

3. The clubs (AFL) are directly responsible for the health and care of its players and all parents must have     complete confidence that is the case, the mothers concern clearly shows this isn't the case at Essendon.

Hirds failure to accept responsibility after placing the club in such a position is reprehensible 


Wayne Goldsmith sums it up beautifully

Passing the buck at Essendon



> n a misguided attempt to protect his brand, James Hird insists on denying his responsibility as senior coach for the doping scandal besetting his club, so bringing the whole game into disrepute, writes Wayne Goldsmith.
> 
> Every club has a code of conduct (flexible).
> 
> ...




http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-27/goldsmith-passing-the-buck-at-essendon/4914592


----------



## Duckman#72 (31 August 2013)

IFocus said:


> Wayne Goldsmith sums it up beautifully
> 
> Passing the buck at Essendon
> 
> ...




Where it becomes grey IFocus is the use of specialists to run training and supplement programs. It is naive and almost childlike to believe that the senior coach understands and implements at a grassroots level, all dietary, medicinal and training programs at a football club. It is nice prose by Goldsmith and lapped up by the gullible but it lacks a deep fundamental understanding of a modern day sporting organisation.    

Have a read of today's "Weekend Australian". Sheds some light into what the AFL and ASADA made known to the public and what they didn't make known to the public, specifically in relation to James Hird. Speaks volumes as to why Hird was so pissed off and wanted to keep fighting to clear his name.

Not only will we never get to the truth, but there are many of us that aren't even sure if we have even reached halfway. Two sides to every story.

Duckman


----------



## Duckman#72 (11 September 2013)

Who would you like to see as Essendon coach until Hirdy gets back?

Daniher, Harvey, Sheedy, O'Donnell?

Duckman


----------



## Sean K (21 September 2013)

Duckman#72 said:


> Who would you like to see as Essendon coach until Hirdy gets back?
> 
> Daniher, Harvey, Sheedy, O'Donnell?
> 
> Duckman



Harvey, then he stays as another senior assistant.

I was thinking Bailey, but adding tanking to doping probably doesn't look so cool.

- - - Updated - - -

Good article this:

Essendon, and the push to bring down the gods of our secular religion

THIS year has seen further demonstration of the strange phenomenon of sport as religion. In question is the location of encounters with the sacred in the modern secular world.

When is it that most Australians are drawn out of their profane lives to become engaged in something more inspiring than the humdrum everyday; when the tepid blood suddenly begins to surge; when the passion barometer rises, moved by scintillating greatness, or dark iniquity; and even when there is some absurd sense that higher forces are at work, guiding events?

The Essendon Football Club drugs scandal has been the lead case, and it provides illuminating clues to the nature of secular religion in Australia today. Its status as the archetypal story of the year is evidenced in its monopolising front and back pages of newspapers over seven months, even in Sydney during its climax in August; and in its dominance of the seven weekly television football chat shows in Melbourne, and likewise for talkback radio.

More....


----------



## Duckman#72 (21 September 2013)

kennas said:


> Harvey, then he stays as another senior assistant.
> 
> I was thinking Bailey, but adding tanking to doping probably doesn't look so cool.
> 
> ...




Yes I read that. It was very good.

Hirdy and Bomber would be livid that Doc Reid got off ( although pleased for him). Hirdy wanted to keep fighting. I hope the scantimonious Caro and Patrick are embarrassed by the dropping of the charges by the AFL. Considering they were the primary mouthpieces of Andrew, I hope they realize they were just a pawn to be used by the AFL to get an outcome they wanted. 

Duckman


----------



## Sean K (25 October 2013)

After holding his hands for about 6 years we get him fit and playing OK and trade him to Freeo. One of Essendon's worst mistakes. Shocking. 

Chappy, on the other hand, if he can stay on the park, is a steel. 

Why the Bulldogs wanted a medium size forward so much is puzzling. He's only scored goals because we have no one else. Hurley certainly wasn't taking any off him.

Looks like Joe is going to be thrust into one of the key positions now. Or a pocket switching with Bellchambers and Ryder. Probably a good three way ruck/fwd line. 

Add Chappy, Licker and Davey and it looks OK. 

Just keep Hurley in the backline FFS. He and Carlisle, Hooker, Goddard, Dempsey, Bags, Hibberd back there will be just fine. No room for Pears. 

Would have liked Dal Santo...


----------



## Duckman#72 (14 February 2014)

kennas said:


> After holding his hands for about 6 years we get him fit and playing OK and trade him to Freeo. One of Essendon's worst mistakes. Shocking.




Another year, hopefully not another controversy!

Not sure what to make of this year. We probably over-performed last year - on the back of the seige mentality.  

Our forward line looks shaky. 

What do people think? Top 4, Top 8 or No Finals

Duckman


----------



## Knobby22 (21 March 2014)

Time to sack Hird.
He stuffed up and should just accept the medicine and live off the $1,000,000 he got this year combined with the business course. So sick of him and his whinging wife. He ruined a lot of careers at Essendon but you don't hear them crying (except maybe "The Weapon"). He did stuff behind the backs of the football club, secret meetings with Danks etc. 

Sack him. I want my Essendon back.


----------



## Duckman#72 (24 March 2014)

Knobby22 said:


> Time to sack Hird.
> He stuffed up and should just accept the medicine and live off the $1,000,000 he got this year combined with the business course. So sick of him and his whinging wife. He ruined a lot of careers at Essendon but you don't hear them crying (except maybe "The Weapon"). He did stuff behind the backs of the football club, secret meetings with Danks etc.
> 
> Sack him. I want my Essendon back.




It is very hard to argue with that Knobby.

I've been a supporter of Hirdy but he is very fast losing goodwill at the club. 

On a positive note - great win by the boys on Friday night. They looked sharp, intense and focused - all the things I was concerned they wouldn't be.

Daniher played his best game and is starting to look comfortable playing at the top level. Chapman and Goddard were great and what can you say about Watson that hasn't been said?!  

Duckman


----------



## Knobby22 (24 March 2014)

Duckman#72 said:


> It is very hard to argue with that Knobby.
> 
> I've been a supporter of Hirdy but he is very fast losing goodwill at the club.
> 
> ...




Yes Duckman, they really looked good.
That mark by Daniher was beautiful.
I've always loved Chappy despite the fact he played for Geelong and it was great to see him get welcomed into the Essendon fold so smoothly. He will teach our younger guys so much and this year..who knows? There doesn't seem to be a clear top side. I think Essendon could be one of 6 teams that could pull off a premiership with a bit of luck.


----------



## Logique (24 March 2014)

Knobby22 said:


> Time to sack Hird... Sack him. I want my Essendon back.



So fickle! Hird is innocent until proven guilty! 

What I will say, Paul Chapman is looking a better recruit than Franklin for us. 9 years...yeah right. Lucky if he manages four years.


----------



## Miss Hale (24 March 2014)

Looking forward to the Hawthorn v Essendon clash on Friday night 

I wish they would sack Hird too, I don't want to see another year of footy hijacked by this drug saga thing, fed up to the back teeth with it, just want to focus on footy now.


----------



## Duckman#72 (24 March 2014)

Logique said:


> So fickle! Hird is innocent until proven guilty!




Unfortunately this isn't about who is right and wrong anymore Logique. 

I had to laugh at Caroline Wilson on Offsiders yesterday morning saying "Why did Hird agree to the deal last year if he felt this way?" I'll tell you why Caro - the AFL wanted the finals to be "clean" and bullied and demanded Hird's head on their terms.  I can imagine the AFL's "give us Hird otherwise we are in the position to make things very difficult for the Club" mentality. 

I strongly believe that Hird was thrown under the bus last year. The Club knows it - which is why they will honour his coaching deal. 

HOWEVER, having said all that - Hird signed the deal. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Just shut up and stop throwing fuel on the fire. It doesn't matter that Dank hasn't been questioned, it doesn't matter that he is taking action in Federal Court, it doesn't matter that no infraction notices have been given out yet and it doesn't even matter that Dank says both he and the Bombers have comprehensive notes on what each and every player was given. The only thing that matters is that Hird signed off on the AFL deal. He has to live with it. 

Duckman


----------



## piggybank (24 March 2014)

Many years ago I worked at the MCG as an usher. This one Saturday I was working on one of the back gates in the Great Southern Stand when this guy who came towards me (from out of the shadows) and approached the gate I was working at. Suddenly I noticed it was James Hird, so I opened my gate to let him through and said "hello - as well as good morning" he just walked past me (as if I wasn't there) and said nothing. He had a chip on his shoulder that day and still has it (although it is bigger now) to this day. I hope Essendon don't get rid of him (as he deserves to be) because they (Essendon) will always be a loser whilst he is in charge. At least you have a chance this year whilst our ex-championship coach is running the show...

After all great players don't necessarily make a great coach - just ask the Collingwood supporters...

GO CATS


----------



## Duckman#72 (29 March 2014)

Miss Hale said:


> Looking forward to the Hawthorn v Essendon clash on Friday night






Great game last night but terrible result. Bombers played with real feeling. Everyone says Hawthorn were without players but Bombers were without recognised ruck men. 

Boys played so well but just gutted with that last goal. Gleeson is a real find as a young player but his poor kick to Heppell while not under pressure with 1min 40 to go caused the turnover. We should have run the clock down from there. He will live and learn.

Duckman


----------



## Miss Hale (30 March 2014)

Good to get a win out of that match   Hawks went to sleep in the third quarter I think, only the buffer we set up in the first half saved us! Losing Mitchell and then Hodge during the game was a big loss.


----------



## Duckman#72 (26 April 2014)

How do you lose a game after getting 6 goals in front??!!! 

Forward line looks very raw. If midfielders aren't kicking goals, no one is. We really missed Goddard and Hocking yesterday.

Hopefully our next 6 weeks will be 4-2.

Duckman


----------



## Knobby22 (26 April 2014)

Duckman#72 said:


> How do you lose a game after getting 6 goals in front??!!!




I know. I was patting myself on the back with regard to the footy tips watching the first quarter. Came back half way through  the third and couldn't believe my eyes. Still not sure what happened. 

Though we did OK in the 4th and could have still won the game but some of our forwards just can't seem to take advantage when given the chance and the kicking was woeful.


----------



## Duckman#72 (8 June 2014)

Essendon's terribly inconsistent year continues with a narrow victory against Gws.

A couple of things have gone in the Bombers favour over the past couple of weeks and I predict no action from ASADA. Looking less and less likely IMO.

You know when anti hird advocate Patrick Smith starts to say....move along, nothing to see here, the case is pretty thin.

Duckman


----------



## Duckman#72 (12 June 2014)

Duckman#72 said:


> A couple of things have gone in the Bombers favour over the past couple of weeks and I predict no action from ASADA. Looking less and less likely IMO.
> Duckman




Yep..........nothing like big, bold statements to make you look stupid.  

Going to be very interesting over the next couple of months. Hard to see Hird coming back now.

Duckman


----------



## Knobby22 (13 June 2014)

Essendon going to court. Paul Little being interviewed right now.


----------



## Duckman#72 (16 June 2014)

Knobby22 said:


> Essendon going to court. Paul Little being interviewed right now.




Our terribly inconsistent year goes from bad to irretrievable with a 1 point loss to Dees.

Hopeless. We are the only team to have lost twice this year after being more than 5 goals in front.

 ASADA not going away.

Duckman


----------



## banco (16 June 2014)

Knobby22 said:


> Essendon going to court. Paul Little being interviewed right now.




Pretty technical argument they are running.  Not so much a profession of innocence but the regulator messed up the investigation.


----------



## Ves (16 June 2014)

Duckman#72 said:


> Our terribly inconsistent year goes from bad to irretrievable with a 1 point loss to Dees.



The problem with Essendon has nothing to do with ASADA,  it is a cultural issue that has been around for almost a decade now.

Your statement epitomises it....   "this year is over,  oh well, let's move onto the next"  rinse and repeat.


----------



## Duckman#72 (16 June 2014)

Ves said:


> The problem with Essendon has nothing to do with ASADA,  it is a cultural issue that has been around for almost a decade now.
> 
> Your statement epitomises it....   "this year is over,  oh well, let's move onto the next"  rinse and repeat.




Yes and no.

Yes - it has been a decade of us treading water, but the last two years have been very competitive. 

Mentally they have issues - as well as a completely dysfunctional forward line. Bring on next year, no ASADA and with another dozen games and a preseason in Daniher.

Duckman


----------



## banco (17 June 2014)

Duckman#72 said:


> Yes and no.
> 
> Yes - it has been a decade of us treading water, but the last two years have been very competitive.
> 
> ...




Given the court action the ASADA saga is likely to continue well into 2015.


----------



## Ves (17 June 2014)

Duckman#72 said:


> Yes and no.
> 
> Yes - it has been a decade of us treading water, but the last two years have been very competitive.
> 
> ...



Port were 6 and 6 at this time last year.   They won their first final,  and almost knocked Geelong off to make a prelim final.

Competitive isn't good enough.   Especially not when you have the cattle and talent to be better than a mid-table team.  The gap between our best and our worst is massive.   That's definitely a mental / cultural issue.

I would argue that the delivery into our forward line is just as big a problem as the forwards themselves.   How many of the 69 forward entries against Melbourne were long bombs with no other strategy than kick and hope?  We do it week in, week out.  We look fantastic when Goddard is kicking it inside 50, and occasionally Zaharakis,   but a lot of the other guys continually waste the football in the forward half.  Don't get me started about defensive structures.  They often fall apart when it counts the most.   Hawthorn game last minutes.  Melbourne game.  Recurring theme.   

The same players have been doing all of these things long before the ASADA issue reared it's ugly head.  They lost to Melbourne in similar circumstances in 2012.

We used to have an aura against lower ranked teams, a feeling of intimidation.   Now they rise up when they play us,  because we cave in much easier when under pressure.

I completely agree with Bomber Thompson.  It's just another excuse.  Players clearly aren't listening to the coaching staff... you can see the frustration in the post-game interviews.


----------



## Knobby22 (17 June 2014)

banco said:


> Pretty technical argument they are running.  Not so much a profession of innocence but the regulator messed up the investigation.




Maybe we should just take the medicine. If I didn't respect Little so much, I would consider this action a bad move. Not sure.


----------



## Duckman#72 (19 June 2014)

Knobby22 said:


> Maybe we should just take the medicine. If I didn't respect Little so much, I would consider this action a bad move. Not sure.




Interesting email between afl and ASADA early last year.

Feeling better with this legal action. Very easy for other clubs, other supporters and other commentators ( Caro) to say "do the time". I wouldn't without strong evidence I broke the law. Go Paul Little.

Duckman


----------



## nulla nulla (20 June 2014)

Didn't Melbourne knock this lot off last weekend?  Heh Heh Heh  Go the mighty Demons.


----------



## Tink (20 June 2014)

nulla nulla said:


> Didn't Melbourne knock this lot off last weekend?  Heh Heh Heh  Go the mighty Demons.




 What a game, loved it


----------



## Duckman#72 (14 July 2014)

Loved the game yesterday. Bombers working themselves into some form. They have stood up in their last three games against Geelong, Port and Collingwood. They had every chance to win against Geelong and arguably it was one of their best players in Heppell's poor decision to kick down the line rather than spot up a player that caused the turnover.

Was Essendon THAT good or was Collingwood THAT bad??

Anyway - who do you leave out for Hibberd and Goddard? The backline was brilliant.  We have Colyer and D'olio, but I like Colyers speed. We were missing one more good forward - for mine that person is Goddard. But the backline looked very settled and comfortable.

Great to see Myers, Merrett, Winderlich, Ambrose and Dempsey playing such consistent, strong footy. The highlight for me was the way they didn't take the foot off the throat. Essendon sides for many years have not had that ruthless "finish them off" mentality. They might not have won by 100 points but the way in which they dominated the game and mentally fried them was even better.

Hope they keep it up. 

(What a difference the 3 games they lost this year after being in front with 3 minutes to go, would make in the final ladder!)  



Duckman


----------



## Sean K (21 July 2014)

Cant believe how our players are holding up. Again. I'm torn about James poking His head in later this year. Could the Bombers supporters go wild and the players truly believe He is the messiah, and grow a few inches? Or, internally, are they pissed off He created this and want Him gone?


----------



## Duckman#72 (21 July 2014)

kennas said:


> Cant believe how our players are holding up. Again. I'm torn about James poking His head in later this year. Could the Bombers supporters go wild and the players truly believe He is the messiah, and grow a few inches? Or, internally, are they pissed off He created this and want Him gone?




If the Bombers were missing out on finals action and Mark Thompson didn't look like he wanted to be there - ok welcome back James. But the way Bomber has them developing and playing for each other - stay away James. Either way,James will never again be seen by the faithful as Sir James.

Duckman


----------



## Duckman#72 (5 September 2014)

Hi Everyone

For those that like a punt on the football, I'm just letting you know the result of tomorrow night so you can get a bet on. 

1) Bombers win by 74 points
2) Daniher 3 goals, Windy 3, Chapman 2, Bellchambers 2 Ryder 2
3) Heppell 34 disposals, 4 tackles and BOG
4) Watson 29 disposals and 1 goal
5) Essendon lead by 7 after Q1, 24 at half time, 46 at three quarter time before going on with the job in the fourth.
6) Howlett to cover Swallow and Hocking to blanket Ziebell
7) Ryder with 38 hitouts the dominant tall on the ground

First score - behind to Essendon

Carn the Dons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Duckman


----------



## nomore4s (19 September 2014)

Duckman#72 said:


> Hi Everyone
> 
> For those that like a punt on the football, I'm just letting you know the result of tomorrow night so you can get a bet on.
> 
> ...



Hope you didn't bet the house


----------



## pixel (19 September 2014)

nomore4s said:


> Hope you didn't bet the house




Hope you didn't bet on Hird being head coach next season either ...


----------



## Sean K (1 December 2014)

Hird still in and the ASADA case falling over. 

http://m.theaustralian.com.au/sport...-bombers-players/story-fnca0u4y-1227141105162


----------



## Sean K (12 December 2014)

What a debacle. Natural justice can't be served if the key witnesses can't be cross examined. It almost turns into a he said she said trial. While TB4 may have been the Thymosin administrated, there needs to be more than a circumstantial string of evidence. ASADA is a joke.


----------



## Sean K (19 February 2015)

So now that we have to find random players from outside the club (who James has never coached, and don't know our game or other players names) we are smashed for seeking such players. What a debacle. What a sham. Why does the AFL demand we field a team when they suspend it? Money in their pockets. The worst managed 'Blackest day in Sport' ever.


----------



## trainspotter (31 March 2015)

All 34 players cleared ... NOT GUILTY !!

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/es...-supplement-saga/story-fndv8gad-1227285913343



> NOT GUILTY!!!
> Michael Warner and Mark Robinson
> THE Essendon 34 have been found not guilty by the AFL anti-doping tribunal.
> Tribunal chairman David Jones informed the players and their legal teams of the verdict this afternoon, 785 days after the drugs saga began.
> ...


----------



## Knobby22 (31 March 2015)

Good. I hope there is no appeal. I just want it finished.


----------



## Logique (31 March 2015)

Somebody better tell Caro.


----------



## Macquack (31 March 2015)

Am I missing the point, or does crime pay?

Golden Rule Number 1 - pass the buck.


----------



## Duckman#72 (1 April 2015)

Logique said:


> Somebody better tell Caro.




I'm waiting up for Footy Classified tonight just to see her backtrack. And I'll be one of the first to get The Australian in the morning just to read Patrick Smith's article. For the past 2 years his articles have been dripping with conceited judgemental arrogance.

Great interview on 7:30 tonight with ex ASADA boss Richard Ings who basically said ASADA need to have a complete review of their processes and procedures. This failure is unprecedented in the world. Ben McDevitt has a lot to answer for. Don't forget before he took over, the investigators for ASADA advised that the case be dropped due to lack of evidence. It was McDevitt that ensured the players received infraction notices. 

Even in his comments this afternoon proves he doesn't get it.........." It wasn't a supplements program but an injection regime". Just because injections were involved doesn't mean it was automatically illegal. Sorry Ben, but to quote Richard Ings.....ASADA had two years to gather evidence, they had 4 weeks to present their case, and they could not get the very experienced and well credentialed tribunal members to find even one player out of 34 guilty of taking an illegal substance. 

Duckman


----------



## Logique (4 April 2015)

Just our luck to get you lot this afternoon. Good luck, but not too much of it.

90% chance of rain, must be a Swans game.


----------



## Knobby22 (18 August 2015)

Hirds gone at last. Good riddance.

Hopefully we can renew and become a strong club again.

My son stopped barracking for them.

And the name of this thread now has a second meaning.


----------



## Logique (18 August 2015)

From the outside looking in, it looks like Hird has been scapegoated. He might have been a long term coach, but now is gone after two years.

Can't see how his departure makes any difference to the big issue facing the club, which is the WADA witch hunt and victimization of the players, many of whom will want to leave at the end of the year.


----------



## Macquack (18 August 2015)

Logique said:


> From the outside looking in, it looks like *Hird has been scapegoated*. He might have been a long term coach, but now is gone after two years.
> 
> Can't see how *his departure makes any difference *to the big issue facing the club, which is the WADA witch hunt and victimization of the players, many of whom will want to leave at the end of the year.




I think you are forgetting that Hird was the man in charge when all this sh*t went down.


----------



## explod (18 August 2015)

Macquack said:


> I think you are forgetting that Hird was the man in charge when all this sh*t went down.




A coach's job is to evaluate onfield performance and the tactics to best meet the opposing sides.   Many others are directly responsible for the health and fitness of the individuals.   It appears that Hird had no idea of the medical/enhancement applications and support.  As a result he trusted the truth of his own role and it would therefore correct in due course. 

Dimitrue did not like him or the success at Essondon in my view and the final full story when it comes will be interesting.  And most of the AFL in house legal processes were very shady indeed (again my view)  and stacked against Hird all the way.


----------



## sptrawler (18 August 2015)

IMO a sad end, to a sad saga. 

I wouldn't be happy to find out, my son was caught up in all this crap, when he was joining a reputable football club.


----------



## Duckman#72 (12 January 2016)

A complete and utter disaster for Essendon and the AFL. 

Once WADA became involved they were always going to throw their weight around. They would have been looking for test case concerning "team sport" where suspensions were invoked without any whistleblower or positive testing. The AFL makes the perfect bunny. 

Now WADA can shout from the rooftop to soccer, basketball etc about getting their house in order.

If I was WADA I would be doing it to. 

Very sad outcome for Australian sport. 

Duckman


----------



## SirRumpole (12 January 2016)

Very sad for the players who were basically under the control of the club and relied on the club's assurances that the supplements were legal.

I don't believe the players should be scapegoated, but Hird, the club's doctors and management should get very stiff treatment.


----------



## Ves (12 January 2016)

Duckman#72 said:


> A complete and utter disaster for Essendon and the AFL.
> 
> Very sad outcome for Australian sport.
> 
> Duckman



Yep,  I'm absolutely shattered.

There's a hollow,  empty feeling at the moment. A bit of anger too.  It'll stay there for a long while, but  I am still a loyal supporter of the club.


----------



## banco (12 January 2016)

Put out your peptides in solidarity with the Essendon 34.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (12 January 2016)

banco said:


> Put out your peptides in solidarity with the Essendon 34.




lol.

McLaughlan and Fitzy didn't look too happy having to leave Portsea for the day to attend a press conference.


----------



## sval62 (12 January 2016)

Duckman#72 said:


> A complete and utter disaster for Essendon and the AFL.
> 
> Once WADA became involved they were always going to throw their weight around. They would have been looking for test case concerning "team sport" where suspensions were invoked without any whistleblower or positive testing. The AFL makes the perfect bunny.
> 
> ...



This is not a sad outcome for Aussie sport but a sad outcome for the players who relied on a good footballer but failed coach.  Hird wanted instant success and went about it by any means possible. He knew what was being 
injected,he authorised it,he denied it,the players admitted it.
Hird should be banned for life and fined the millions he made out this great game he brought into disrepute.


----------



## pixel (12 January 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> Very sad for the players who were basically under the control of the club and relied on the club's assurances that the supplements were legal.
> 
> I don't believe the players should be scapegoated, but Hird, the club's doctors and management should get very stiff treatment.




I too feel for the players.
What were they supposed to have done, when the Club Officials make a roll call "Line up for jabs!" 
Refuse? Or ask for a second opinion? How advantageous would that have been for their future with the Club?

Maybe there's a chance for a clever Shyster to sue the Club on behalf of those players. "Coercion to self-harm" maybe? Or at least "Failing to provide a safe work environment"?


----------



## Gringotts Bank (12 January 2016)

pixel said:


> I too feel for the players.
> What were they supposed to have done, when the Club Officials make a roll call "Line up for jabs!"
> Refuse? Or ask for a second opinion? How advantageous would that have been for their future with the Club?
> 
> Maybe there's a chance for a clever Shyster to sue the Club on behalf of those players. "Coercion to self-harm" maybe? Or at least "Failing to provide a safe work environment"?




Yeh the players were put in an impossible position, the younger ones especially.  Doing what you're told by the coach and medical staff is part of being a pro player.  You follow personal orders and team orders so that the team can function as a unit.  Then you find out you've been dudded.  Very unfair.

The medical staff seem to have come out unscathed, but I see it as their responsibility.  The difficulty *imo *was that revered Hird was so determined for success, that questioning new initiatives would have felt like heresy.  He's the boss, after all.


----------



## Trembling Hand (12 January 2016)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Yeh the players were put in an impossible position, the younger ones especially.  Doing what you're told by the coach and medical staff is part of being a pro player.  You follow personal orders and team orders so that the team can function as a unit.  Then you find out you've been dudded.  Very unfair.




Thats just not true. This team sport tow the line is just BS. All the responsibility is on the athlete, always has been. Always needs to be. Under 15 years olds who make state teams in obscure sports can tell you the rules. I know, I know the procedure. To be a profession sports person in Australia's biggest sport and use the excuse that you didn't know what was being injected is just laughable. Thats exactly what they tell you on your first day in, to 12-14 year olds. You don't know whats going in you have probably already broken the doping rules.


----------



## SirRumpole (12 January 2016)

Trembling Hand said:


> Thats just not true. This team sport tow the line is just BS. All the responsibility is on the athlete, always has been. Always needs to be. Under 15 years olds who make state teams in obscure sports can tell you the rules. I know, I know the procedure. To be a profession sports person in Australia's biggest sport and use the excuse that you didn't know what was being injected is just laughable. Thats exactly what they tell you on your first day in, to 12-14 year olds. You don't know whats going in you have probably already broken the doping rules.




So the club has no responsibility ?

Sorry I don't believe it.

Were the players supposed to get independent chemical analysis of the supplements or believe what their employers told them that it was all legit ?

The club has a duty of care over it's players. The club is at fault.


----------



## Logique (12 January 2016)

Disgraceful to take it out on the players like this. An AFL career is brief enough as it is, without having to sit out for a season.

What about the members and supporters, and the sponsors. 

I hope the players appeal.  Punishment fit the crime? Not in this case.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (12 January 2016)

Trembling Hand said:


> Thats just not true. This team sport tow the line is just BS. All the responsibility is on the athlete, always has been. Always needs to be. Under 15 years olds who make state teams in obscure sports can tell you the rules. I know, I know the procedure. To be a profession sports person in Australia's biggest sport and use the excuse that you didn't know what was being injected is just laughable. Thats exactly what they tell you on your first day in, to 12-14 year olds. You don't know whats going in you have probably already broken the doping rules.




Most pro footballers would struggle to even Google the word "AOD-9604", let alone know what it does and whether it's legal or not.  Medical staff should have known exactly what was going on, so imo they have the responsibility.

The word was out that this is what Geelong had been doing with Dank.  It looked to work very well for them, and they hadn't been stopped or questioned by anyone.  That acts as an unofficial "go ahead".


----------



## Trembling Hand (12 January 2016)

SirRumpole said:


> So the club has no responsibility ?
> 
> Sorry I don't believe it.
> 
> ...




Yeah sure the club is at fault. Thats without question. But the athletes are not victims just because they belong to a professional club. The very basis of your anti-doping education when you start in junior development state based teams/squads is you have to know what is going in you.

There is just no way around that. Certainly if you are old enough to earn $100,000 to $800,000 dollars out of a sport I can guarantee you have been told the above by plenty of parties plenty of times.



Gringotts Bank said:


> Most pro footballers would struggle to even Google the word "AOD-9604", let alone know what it does and whether it's legal or not.




Nonsense. Everyone is given this link and told to use it for everything they eat, wipe on their skin, stick in nose/eyes, stick in their veins and stick up their ar$e.

http://checksubstances.asada.gov.au/index.aspx


----------



## Gringotts Bank (12 January 2016)

Trembling Hand said:


> Nonsense. Everyone is given this link and told to use it for everything they eat, wipe on their skin, stick in nose/eyes, stick in their veins and stick up their ar$e.
> 
> http://checksubstances.asada.gov.au/index.aspx




What about this?


----------



## Trembling Hand (12 January 2016)

Gringotts Bank said:


> What about this?




lol! maybe you should be a footballer......


----------



## Gringotts Bank (12 January 2016)

Trembling Hand said:


> lol! maybe you should be a footballer......
> 
> View attachment 65510




You reckon that would have been listed there in 2012?


----------



## Trembling Hand (12 January 2016)

Gringotts Bank said:


> You reckon that would have been listed there in 2012?




It doesn't need to be!!! 

The start of anti-doping education is if you do not know with 100% accuracy what it is you have probably already broken your anti doping commitments! Thats a very good basis to start at - don't know -don't use it. 

You do not have to be a Phd chemist to follow the rules you sign up for. Like I said a 14 year olds can do it.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (12 January 2016)

Trembling Hand said:


> It doesn't need to be!!!
> 
> The start of anti-doping education is if you do not know with 100% accuracy what it is you have probably already broken your anti doping commitments! Thats a very good basis to start at - don't know -don't use it.
> 
> You do not have to be a Phd chemist to follow the rules you sign up for. Like I said a 14 year olds can do it.




Off topic: What did you play?


----------



## Trembling Hand (12 January 2016)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Off topic: What did you play?




Cycling. Still do and still have to follow anti-doping rules as a 40 year old when I compete in State and National comps in case I get busted as a drug cheat for using a nasal hey fever med! 

Personally I think its a good day for sport.


----------



## Trembling Hand (13 January 2016)

This is what I was saying yesterday. 
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...rs-for-lack-of-curiosity-20160112-gm4o7u.html



> In outlining its reasoning for the sanctions against the players, the CAS panel noted that all players had received anti-doping education, none of the players had used the World Anti-Doping Agency hotline (or any other hotline) or searched the internet for information on "thymosin", and no player had asked or spoken to club doctor Bruce Reid about the injections.






> Not a single Essendon player tested during the 2012 season revealed that they were being given thymosin injections, which the panel took a particularly dim view of.
> "Complete failure of the vast majority of players who had to fill in a doping control form during the season to reveal the receipt of injections does not encourage confidence in their statements as to the limited or sporadic nature of what they were injected with.




These are profession sports people!!! Halfway down the first page its made very clear you have to list every injection. Not one of them put anything. Not even vitamin supplement.

They left it blank........ yeah right!!!


----------



## Sean K (20 January 2016)

A couple of good recruits coming into the fold. 

Crowley and Kelly definitely have a solid year left in them. Will be good support for the rookies who will get so much more development games.

Essendon set for top four in 2017.


----------



## piggybank (16 April 2016)

Where are all those Bombers fans? No post since January - obviously the fans have or are giving up on them

There's nothing better than watching Essendon lose, especially when they are up against my team the mighty CATS

However, to their credit (Essendon) pushed us all the way until the last 10 minutes when the Cats pressure couldn't be stopped anymore.








​
As we can see from the data provided, that although Essendon won the disposals, hit outs and marks counts it was the team spirit (and consistency) that got Geelong over the line. Even though the Bombers had 5 players over the one hundred mark (AFL fantasy score) they also had 5 players who scored less than the lowest Geelong player!!


----------



## Knobby22 (17 April 2016)

I am quite happy with the Bombers this year.
Next year we will be top 4 with the fantastic list we will have.


----------



## piggybank (17 April 2016)

What is it that the Essendon supporters keep on saying they will finish in the top 4 next season? Reading an article in the paper said they are unlikely to have most of their "decent" players returning next season after the recent debacle.

Maybe the supporters/fans are presently taking recreational drugs, thus coming out with these delusional thoughts


----------



## Sean K (12 May 2016)

I'm now thinking top 8 is an OK plan for next year. 

A couple of other teams have gone crazy; like Dogs and North and Giants, who may be top three next year.


----------



## piggybank (13 May 2016)

kennas said:


> I'm now thinking top 8 is an OK plan for next year.
> 
> A couple of other teams have gone crazy; like Dogs and North and Giants, who may be top three next year.




Hi Kennas,

I like your confidence but I can see Essendon in the bottom eight along with Collingwood. I wouldn't be surprised to see that either one or both teams not being in next years ANZAC game at the G. A lot of other Melbourne clubs (and rightly so) are saying that with both teams on the wane, it is only right that other teams should have an opportunity on the big stage.


----------



## Logique (14 May 2016)

The game is the loser when players of the ilk of Watson, Hurley, Heppell, Crameri, Hooker, Bellchambers and Stanton have to sit out a season, for no good reason in my view. 

Essendon will be much better next year. I think Collingwood will be as well.


----------



## Duckman#72 (15 August 2016)

Well the season is nearly over and the Bombers have battled on gamely all year.

As expected they have been inconsistent, erratic, exposed and outgunned most games BUT they have been very impressive in the endeavour and spirit they have shown this year.

Great effort by the whole list as well as John Worsfold and coaching staff. They've been so tremendously positive every step of the way - looking for every little positive out of every situation.

Fantastic win over Gold Coast yesterday. This season will provide a wonderful springboard for the years ahead. I'm not expecting big things in 2017 as it will be another transitional year but 2018 and beyond should provide serious push deep into the finals.


----------



## Logique (15 August 2016)

Do you think Hurley will really leave, or is is just paper talk?  Last I heard it was the Bulldogs.


----------



## Duckman#72 (15 August 2016)

Logique said:


> Do you think Hurley will really leave, or is is just paper talk?  Last I heard it was the Bulldogs.




I believe Hibberd is more likely to leave.  I think Hurley may stay.  

I actually think the Bombers management wouldn't actually mind if one of these bigger name players left to provide some flexibility with salary cap. Hibberd would be the obvious choice, particularly as he is making noises as though he wants to leave.  With Hartley and McDonald-Tipungwitu coming on (perhaps with Dea as a late draft pick) I think Bombers would see that Hibberds role could be covered if they got a good deal for him. 

Until last year I was not a huge fan of Hurley and was devastated when they originally offered him the first 5 year deal.  They've paid him well over the odds up to this point. Hopefully the loyalty factor might keep him solid.  

Duckman


----------



## Logique (15 August 2016)

Yes Hurley took a while to develop, but was very good last season


----------



## Duckman#72 (15 August 2016)

Logique said:


> Yes Hurley took a while to develop, but was very good last season




Yes - performing well at the end of your contract period is an old Essendon tradition.

From memory Sheeds (bless his heart) had an uncanny habit of getting the Bombers in the finals in the last year of his coaching contracts!! 

Cheers
Geoff


----------



## Duckman#72 (19 August 2016)

Duckman#72 said:


> I believe Hibberd is more likely to leave.  I think Hurley may stay.




Couple of good signings in the last few days. Good to see. 

Duckman


----------



## Duckman#72 (20 August 2016)

Duckman#72 said:


> I believe Hibberd is more likely to leave. I think Hurley may stay.
> 
> Duckman




I wish my intuition was this accurate with my stock tips.


----------



## Sean K (26 November 2016)

Looks like a good starting line up next year:

B: Kelly, Hartley, Bags
HB: Francis, Hurley, Goddard (vc)
C: Myers, Watson (c), Parish
HF: Zaha, Hooker, Colyer
F: Fanta, Daniher, Walla
R: Burger, Heppell (vc), Merrett (vc)
IC, from, in priority order: Bellch, Stanton, Langford, McGrath, Ambrose, Laverde, Brown, Hocking, Howlett, Dae, Merrett, Bird, Gleeson

Depends on how a few go over the pre-season:

Francis could be anything, might take Hartley's spot and make Ambrose HB. 
McGrath is unknown but will be played, probably HB. 
Langford thinks he could be a Fyfe, competing with Myers for wing.
Walla may return too pudgy after Xmas, but could be switched into Bags spot.
Watson might go back to serving coffee. His new GF looks like trouble. 
Kelly turns 50, or something, he and Dae are interchangeable. 
Fanta might have had a one off, fighting with Laverde and Howlett for spot.
Hocking, pending fitness, may end up as RR and tag the best of the opposition.


----------



## Logique (27 November 2016)

kennas said:


> Looks like a good starting line up next year:
> 
> B: Kelly, Hartley, Bags
> HB: Francis, Hurley, Goddard (vc)
> ...



They overlooked some good ones to take McGrath at No.1, so they must rate him. 

From the outside, I'm thinking top 8 a pass mark for the Bombers in 2017, but they're well capable of top 4, with a lot of good players returning.


----------



## SirRumpole (5 January 2017)

Some media is reporting this as an 'overdose' but whatever it's not good news.

*Former Essendon coach James Hird reportedly hospitalised in major health scare*

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-05/james-hird-reportedly-taken-to-hospital-in-melbourne/8164394


----------



## sptrawler (5 January 2017)

Doesn't sound good, the media will have a field day, sadly


----------



## MrBurns (5 January 2017)

Damn tragic he was the golden boy of the AFL I thought he was too smart to get mixed up in doping. I think he was sucked in by Dank.


----------



## Tisme (6 January 2017)

MrBurns said:


> Damn tragic he was the golden boy of the AFL I thought he was too smart to get mixed up in doping. I think he was sucked in by Dank.





The whole episode is a disgrace and a metaphor for our daily lives, where state backed organisations have hijacked our freedoms and superimposed themselves as arbitrators of our actions, which were once our own decisions with consequences for our those decisions. The working man's game has progressively turned into a sanitised bureaucracy and lost a lot of its mongrel, the joy, saddness and delight of the unpredictable .........

James Hird was a magnificent example of that dirty word ....manhood; the way he came back after that terrible injury was inspiring and national treasure stuff IMO:


----------



## SirRumpole (6 January 2017)

Tisme said:


> The whole episode is a disgrace and a metaphor for our daily lives, where state backed organisations have hijacked our freedoms and superimposed themselves as arbitrators of our actions, which were once our own decisions with consequences for our those decisions. The working man's game has progressively turned into a sanitised bureaucracy and lost a lot of its mongrel, the joy, saddness and delight of the unpredictable .........




AFL is a syndicated business these days, and individual brilliance is deprecated in favour of a "managed" approach where individuals tow the corporate line.

I don't know what role Hird had in the doping scandal, the people I admire most are the players who refused to knuckle under and demanded to know what they were being given.


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## Sean K (10 January 2017)

Hird must have been really stewing underneath for some time. I don't know how he held up with the constant personal attacks through the media from the likes of Caroline Wilson. Perhaps he's been treated and we didn't know about it. Maybe Jobe handing back his gong, him not getting a media gig at the start of the year and who knows what his Colombian chocolate business was about has pushed him over the edge. Hope he gets well soon.


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## SirRumpole (21 February 2017)

This Daily Mail article got a serve from Media Watch last night after it posted numerous photos of James Hird and a "female friend" walking through Melbourne.

The story made a few references to Hird's wife (not pictured), and the sleazy implications were obvious.

So who was the un- named femme fatale in Hird's life ?

His sister.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-James-Hird-seen-Melbourne-drug-overdose.html


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## Logique (28 March 2017)

Not an Essendon supporter, but a great win over the Hawks in Rd 1.  Aces back in the pack, and at least top 8 finish for mine. A Brownlow for the skipper if he can maintain that form.


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## Duckman#72 (31 July 2020)

I started this thread 14 years ago and I am struggling to see one aspect of team improvement!!

We are almost always second to the ball, our footy disposal skills are deplorable, we are not fit enough and our decision making ability is second rate.

I disagree with those that say Essendon haven’t developed their own “brand” of football.....it’s called “gutless, pathetic capitulation”.


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## Duckman#72 (7 August 2020)

Absolutely heartbreaking.........

Sick of us just being so crap. Losing after being up 29points at half time and in the rain!!

Just a gutless, thoughtless, pathetic rollover. Supporting this club has probably taken 5 years off my life. They should ask the question on life insurance forms.

Once again a “promising season” turns to dust.


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## Knobby22 (12 August 2020)

Draw! And they came from behind!


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## Duckman#72 (12 August 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Draw! And they came from behind!



The team is constantly finding new ways to disappoint and frustrate me!

Unfortunately the injuries will be blamed on the poor performance this year when in fact the team is just not good enough. A lot of average and aging footballers. 

Draper looks promising, Ridley has been great and McGrath has been good in his move to the midfield but outside that, there’s not a lot to be happy with.


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## Duckman#72 (27 August 2020)

Great win!!

But not before a first half display that was one of their worst performances of the season. 

The difference between their best and worst is huge. Inconsistency!

Great first game back for Daniher - very promising!


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## Sean K (9 July 2021)

Not sure who might still be around supporting the Bombers...

Really enjoying 2021, but disappointed we've won so many games. LOL. Would have preferred bottom 4 (still might get there) to get another high draft pick or two. 

Obviously Fantasia leaving was a winner. Made of butter. 
Saad got directly replaced by Hind, who is on a quarter of his pay. What a bargain. 
Daniher is a miss, but it got Harry Jones games, who plays like a junior Hird, but taller. Can't believe a Daniher left Essendon.

We wouldn't be any higher up the ladder even if we'd kept those losers.

Hooker, Zaharakis and Hurley have't got much left in the tank I think. Should free up some salary cap to fill gaps.  

Premiership window 2023-25. 

So good being back in Melbs and getting to go to some games.


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## Knobby22 (9 July 2021)

kennas said:


> Not sure who might still be around supporting the Bombers...
> 
> Really enjoying 2021, but disappointed we've won so many games. LOL. Would have preferred bottom 4 (still might get there) to get another high draft pick or two.
> 
> ...



I actually feel better about the bombers this year than I have for ages. 
I can see a future now. And they have a good game also. Good to watch.


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## Sean K (10 July 2021)

Knobby22 said:


> I actually feel better about the bombers this year than I have for ages.
> I can see a future now. And they have a good game also. Good to watch.




Yes, feels like a good news story.

Was a good win last night, but Adelaide didn't turn up. 

Cox was back to getting the ball and Perkins might get a Rising Star nod. Should have kicked 5. 

I hope we don't overpay to keep Stringer, but he's important. He does some individual acts of brilliance, but not consistently enough. His one percenters are really showing though and might be going unnoticed by most.


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## Knobby22 (10 July 2021)

kennas said:


> Yes, feels like a good news story.
> 
> Was a good win last night, but Adelaide didn't turn up.
> 
> ...



Yea, when Essendon got Stringer I thought they made a mistake but he has worked out. He adds unpredictability.
Adelaide hasn't got a forward line without Tex. 
Shows why we need to hold onto Stringer.


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## Sean K (10 September 2021)

Well, the year ended as expected, in a loss, but it was an unexpected year because we were in the finals. I genuinely thought we'd be bottom 4 and I was looking forward to another couple of top 10 draft picks. Now our top pick is 11, at this stage. Then, not much.

I think our handful of newbies will be at least 10% better next year. Cox, Perkins, Jones and Durham will all be important players next year I think. 

We need a key position forward to come in during the off season. Chol? I reckon that's the only gap unless Jones grows another couple of cms and adds 5+kgs. Although, Lloyd was only 192cm I guess. Draper, Wright and Chol rotating around forward and ruck would be pretty handy.

Adding Caldwell, McGrath and Shiel back in (they were way underdone coming back late) will create a lot of competition through the middle. Maybe one of them gets rebadged as a half back.

Need Reid to have a good pre season and take the second big tall down back too I think. Not sure if Stewart does enough. 

Hope Tippa comes back in shape. Big risk he doesn't I think.


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## Sean K (6 January 2022)

How are you feeling at this stage @Knobby22 ?

I‘m quietly confident we‘ll win more games, but that doesn’t necessarily mean a higher position at the end of the year. Need to get top 6, I feel.

The Crow back man is a value add, but we missed on a key forward. Relying on Harrison to get slightly taller and stronger I think. That’s not out of the question.

I haven’t been to a training run yet to check them out. Will do so at the next opportunity.


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## Knobby22 (6 January 2022)

Sean K said:


> How are you feeling at this stage @Knobby22 ?
> 
> I‘m quietly confident we‘ll win more games, but that doesn’t necessarily mean a higher position at the end of the year. Need to get top 6, I feel.
> 
> ...



The Melbourne kids haven't had  much of a chance the last two years. Essendon should keep a very tight eye on the older boys as some wil come good.  I know they have a few unlisted players training with them. Nice to feel we have turned the corner.


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## Sean K (24 February 2022)

I need some support from Essendon supporters for the ASF Supercoach League. Looks dim. Get on it!


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## Knobby22 (18 March 2022)

Natalie Wood to be coach of new AFLW team. Name sounds familiar








						'Extremely proud': Bombers hire Natalie Wood as head coach for inaugural AFLW team
					

Essendon hires Natalie Wood as their inaugural AFLW coach, joining Bec Goddard at Hawthorn as the only female head coaches in next year's expanded competition.




					www.abc.net.au


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## Sean K (18 August 2022)

Seems I'm the only Bomber left here at the moment. Hopefully a few more join the conversation as we eventually come out of this long term depression. 

I'm feeling for Truck at the moment. Don't know exactly what's going on internally, but the group have underperformed. Maybe it's the coaches responsibility to some extent, but the players are supposed to be professionals too. I can't imagine many incentive payments being paid out this year. Ultimately, it's the board of directors and management team who are supposed to be 'responsible'. Heads must go. 

Having said that, getting Clarkson would add a new dynamic. And, if he does a customary sweep he can clean away some of the chaff laying about in the footy department. Keep the 'essendon' people, and maybe add a couple more like Solomon and, dare I say it, Hird.


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## Knobby22 (30 September 2022)

Brad Scott, looks like a premiership coach to me.


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## Knobby22 (4 October 2022)

CEO resigns one day into job.
This thread is well named. Getting sick of it. Duckman has gone. I am the only one left.


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## sptrawler (4 October 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> CEO resigns one day into job.
> This thread is well named. Getting sick of it. Duckman has gone. I am the only one left.



Yes I just read the article, the world is becoming a weird place, sounds like it is o.k to discriminate against a religious person.  








						New Essendon boss Andrew Thorburn quits one day after appointment
					

Essendon’s tumultuous off-season has continued, with new CEO Andrew Thorburn resigning only a day after his role was confirmed.




					www.smh.com.au
				



From the article:
“As soon as the comments relating to a 2013 sermon from a pastor, at the City of the Hill church came to light this morning, we acted immediately to clarify the publicly espoused views on the organisation’s official website, which are in direct contradiction to our values as a club.
“Essendon is committed to providing an inclusive, diverse and a safe club, where everyone is welcome and respected.
“The board made clear that, despite these not being views that Andrew Thorburn has expressed personally and that were also made prior to him taking up his role as chairman, he couldn’t continue to serve in his dual roles at the Essendon Football Club and as chairman of City on the Hill.”

Thorburn released a statement which said he was being asked to compromise “beyond a level his conscience allowed”.
“Today it became clear to me that my personal Christian faith is not tolerated or permitted in the public square, at least by some and perhaps by many,” he said in the statement.
“People should be able to hold different views on complex personal and moral matters, and be able to live and work together, even with those differences, and always with respect.”
But the church’s stance on abortion and homosexuality was criticised by Victorian premier Daniel Andrews and the Bombers’ LGBTQI supporter group.

Andrews, a Bombers supporter, had a strong response when asked on Tuesday about the views expressed by Thorburn’s church, but acknowledged the CEO’s appointment was a matter for Essendon’s board.
“Those views are absolutely appalling. I don’t support those views; that kind of intolerance, that kind of hatred, bigotry is just wrong,” Andrews said.
Thorburn, who had been due to start his new role on November 1, insisted his record showed he was “inclusive and welcoming and caring and diverse”.

“Let me be clear - I love all people, and have always promoted and lived an inclusive, diverse, respectful and supportive workplace - where people are welcomed regardless of their culture, religious beliefs, and sexual orientation,” Thorburn said.

“I believe my record over a long period of time testifies to this. Despite my own leadership record, within hours of my appointment being announced, the media and leaders of our community had spoken. They made it clear that my Christian faith and my association with a church are unacceptable in our culture if you wish to hold a leadership position in society.”


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## IFocus (5 October 2022)

I was stunned when Thorburn was picked along with calls to bring back Hird.


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## sptrawler (5 October 2022)

IFocus said:


> I was stunned when Thorburn was picked along with calls to bring back Hird.



Why?


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## Sean K (5 October 2022)

Essendon are a basket case at the moment. Whoever did due diligence on the new CEO must have known he was a Christian and part of that church. If not, they should be sacked. If so, they summed it up and made a judgement that religion should be kept out of business appointments. But, not in sport apparently. I wouldn’t be surprised if a very loud minority group made waves which knocked him out. It’s a cluster anyway you look at it. Embarrassing.


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## Sean K (5 October 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Why?




sp, focus was probably referring to his last gig as head of NAB. He was quite rightly spanked by the commission into banking misconduct. Essendon bragging that they had secured an ex-star ASX listed company CEO was a bit of a joke.


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## sptrawler (5 October 2022)

Sean K said:


> Essendon are a basket case at the moment. Whoever did due diligence on the new CEO must have known he was a Christian and part of that church. If not, they should be sacked. If so, they summed it up and made a judgement that religion should be kept out of business appointments. But, not in sport apparently. I wouldn’t be surprised if a very loud minority group made waves which knocked him out. It’s a cluster anyway you look at it. Embarrassing.



Yes it is obviously going to be difficult for a religious person, to be appointed to a sporting management position, imagine how hard it will be for someone with islamic beliefs they are very anti homosexuality.
The CEO will get his Israel Falou moment and a big payout, being penalised for what someone else said in 2013, doesn't sound very clever to me.
Another management cluster fluck in the name of inclusiveness, by forced exclusion, on vague religious grounds.


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## sptrawler (5 October 2022)

Sean K said:


> sp, focus was probably referring to his last gig as head of NAB. He was quite rightly spanked by the commission into banking misconduct. Essendon bragging that they had secured an ex-star ASX listed company CEO was a bit of a joke.



Or he was referring to the fact Thornburn is associated to the Church in question and Hird for his past misdemeanors?

This comment by a reader of the Age newspaper IMO nails it and shows how ridiculous it is getting, irony at its best. 🥳 








						A no-brainer or hypocritical? Readers react to Thorburn’s resignation
					

The Essendon Football Club is now embroiled in a public debate about freedom of speech and religion, and Age readers have some strong views about what has happened.




					www.theage.com.au
				




Thorburn doesn’t go to a church, he has a significant role at that church. If people chose to participate in organisations that promote marginal and offensive positions they should expect in turn to be marginalised – *Damian*


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## Knobby22 (5 October 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Why?



Thorburn was leading the committee to appoint the new CEO and he picked himself! How did that happen?

The new Chairman is hopeless.
He brags about getting him and then sacks him next day!

What the Chairman did to the previous coach also! Worst handling in my memory.


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## sptrawler (5 October 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> Thorburn was leading the committee to appoint the new CEO and he picked himself! How did that happen?
> 
> The new Chairman is hopeless.
> He brags about getting him and then sacks him next day!
> ...



That's fair comment and as you and Sean K say, Essendon appear to be in a mess.
What grates with me is the persecution at the moment of anything christian, not that I'm religious, but I think if a group of people are going to be judged it should be applied equally to all sectors who display the same perceived failing.
As Damian said in my post, if you are going to be involved in marginal and offensive behaviour, expect to be marginalised. So obviously it just depends who you are picking on, it is o.k to marginalise as long as you are on the right side. 
A bit like it is o.k to bully and brow beat, as long as you have the backing of the media, anyone else does it and it is unacceptable.🤣
I guess it's my upbringing but I hate bullies and IMO there are way too many out there at the moment who are using the LGBTQIA platform as a stage for their own underlying nasty gratification.
It isn't helping the LGBTQIA cause at all IMO, it is only highlighting they can be as bigoted as any sector, which IMO isn't helpfull.
By the way why couldn't Hird be considered, hasn't he served his penance? He seemed to have a good footy brain, but poor judgement when it came to what was acceptable.
That shouldn't exclude him from ever working as a coach again, I wouldn't have thought, but I didn't follow it closely.


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## IFocus (5 October 2022)

Sean K said:


> sp, focus was probably referring to his last gig as head of NAB. He was quite rightly spanked by the commission into banking misconduct. Essendon bragging that they had secured an ex-star ASX listed company CEO was a bit of a joke.





SP what Sean said, didn't know about the church stuff but his denials concerning the church's behavior in this climate added to his down fall IMHO.

Clubs need successful cheerleaders for CEO's not lead weights note WCE and Freo's CEO's night and day difference.

Always had a soft spot for Essendon (never liked Hird that much no matter how good he was) hope they sort it all out.


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## Knobby22 (5 October 2022)

IFocus said:


> SP what Sean said, didn't know about the church stuff but his denials concerning the church's behavior in this climate added to his down fall IMHO.
> 
> Clubs need successful cheerleaders for CEO's not lead weights note WCE and Freo's CEO's night and day difference.



Also he is the leader of the churches. It's not really about being Christian but about him also doing that job and being effectively their major person/voice. It really is untenable  The whole thing is a dreadful mess.


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