# Refunds on faulty goods?



## Smurf1976 (31 December 2007)

Can someone confirm for me what the law is (I know, just your opinion and not a lawyer etc) regarding returning faulty goods?

I have a faulty electrical appliance that failed the first time I went to use it yesterday. Bought it a couple of weeks ago.

Now, I know that the store / manufacturer has to refund / replace / repair it. But what I want to know is can they insist on a repair (which will take forever...) or am I entitled to a refund / replacement given that it was clearly faulty when I bought it?

The wording on the store's website (Big W) implies that they will repair only but I am thinking that maybe they have to refund / replace since it's brand new? Or that there would at least be a time limit on how long the repairs can take? I just want to arm myself with the facts as I'd rather avoid the repair option if at all possible.


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## visual (31 December 2007)

Smurf1976 said:


> Can someone confirm for me what the law is (I know, just your opinion and not a lawyer etc) regarding returning faulty goods?
> 
> I have a faulty electrical appliance that failed the first time I went to use it yesterday. Bought it a couple of weeks ago.
> 
> ...




Legally I think you'll find repair is the first option, but being Big W, more than likely they'll replace it. Depending on what it is, just insist on your not being able to cope without it.


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## Francis Begbie (31 December 2007)

Agree with visual, it's not so much the law they are bound by, but rather consumer satisfaction. So if you make it out that it's a hassle they will almost definitely replace it. I work with Woolworths, so i know what customers can get away with (not that you're doing anything wrong).


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## rederob (31 December 2007)

Smurf
If you have the docket for the purchase, then BIG W will replace the faulty item, exchange it if you prefer another product (price refund or you make up the extra). Or, they will give you a full refund.
If they don't, then pm me (I am in a position of influence!).
However, if you do not have the original purchase docket, whistle Dixie.


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## visual (31 December 2007)

Actually smurf you actually don't need the docket if the item is faulty, under the law you are entitled to actually get what it is you paid for and it has to satisfy your that it does what it says. So no docket necessary, no refund though just replacement. If you need to clarify this look up consumer affair, they'll have more information


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## Doris (31 December 2007)

rederob said:


> Smurf
> If you have the docket for the purchase, then BIG W will replace the faulty item, exchange it if you prefer another product (price refund or you make up the extra). Or, they will give you a full refund.
> If they don't, then pm me (I am in a position of influence!).
> However, if you do not have the original purchase docket, whistle Dixie.




I bought a vacuum cleaner from Big W in BNE for a daughter and it had very little suction.  I'd thrown out the docket.  BigW took back the vac and took my details and refunded the money by cheque in the mail two weeks later.  Had I wished to exchange it they said they would.  But I went to a specialist store for a higher powered one.  It did not do what I had puchased it to do.

Stores must by law (in QLD for certain) give a refund for faulty items but not if you change your mind about the colour!


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## Uncle Festivus (31 December 2007)

Applies to NSW, but I assume should apply to other states as well. Basically it is your choice of refund, replace or repair (in that order), if you satisfy the criteria - 



> Consumers may ask for a refund if the goods purchased:
> 
> have a basic, serious fault that was not known by the consumer at the time of purchase
> do not do the job that the consumer was led to believe they would do
> ...




You need your docket otherwise it is up to the discretion of the merchant.

http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/shopping/refundsandrepairs.html


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## krisbarry (31 December 2007)

visual said:


> Actually smurf you actually don't need the docket if the item is faulty, under the law you are entitled to actually get what it is you paid for and it has to satisfy your that it does what it says. So no docket necessary, no refund though just replacement. If you need to clarify this look up consumer affair, they'll have more information




Actually X 3   Hmmmmmmm


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## Judd (31 December 2007)

This is a link to an area of the ACCC's web-site on Warranties and Refunds.

http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/322947


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## The Mint Man (31 December 2007)

being Big W I don't think you have much to worry about. just line up at the front desk and ask for a refund or whatever your after.

Cheers


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## Smurf1976 (31 December 2007)

Thanks everyone. I just wanted to know where I stood before taking it back. Will take it back this afternoon and yes I have the docket.


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## RichKid (31 December 2007)

Smurf1976 said:


> Thanks everyone. I just wanted to know where I stood before taking it back. Will take it back this afternoon and yes I have the docket.




Hi Smurf, Great answers above, I'm not a lawyer either but you could throw around phrases like not 'fit for purpose' and 'latent defect' if you wish! You paid a sum of money in exchange for what reasonably appeared to be a product in full working condition and fit for the purpose it was manufactured for- what you got was something less than what you bargained for. You should be restored to your former position (ie a refund at the very least if you choose one). 

Once at BigW, I'd ask for the manager immediately if a floor supervisor isn't helpful, explain you situation clearly and concisely and be very polite, very firm and confident- they need to know that you wont go away. My experience of BigW is that they are generally quite helpful with refunds and returns- you've got the docket and you're being prompt so there should be no hassle.

fwiw to consumers generally- you may choose to look at the Sale of Goods Act 1923 (NSW), Fair Trading Act 1987 (NSW) and the Trade Practices Act 1975 (Cth) (see www.austlii.edu.au for these statutes) in relation to this and similar claims. Those Acts aren't easy to understand but if you every need a substitute for a sleeping pill...

The first point of contact if the dispute escalates is the local consumer affairs dept or a community legal centre (I think that the NRMA has a free legal service of some sort as well for members)....or you could try ASF as per the usual for tips! www.Choice.com.au has good tips as well.

Also, don't feel that you are hemmed in by the terms of warranties or refund/exchange conditions- you can always negotiate and the law doesn't allow for a lot of the conditions which retailers conjure up for themselves (eg what is a reasonable period before you lose the right to return an item? is it the period on the docket....is it 3 weeks? 3 months?....).


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## rederob (31 December 2007)

visual said:


> Actually smurf you actually don't need the docket if the item is faulty, under the law you are entitled to actually get what it is you paid for and it has to satisfy your that it does what it says. So no docket necessary, no refund though just replacement. If you need to clarify this look up consumer affair, they'll have more information



That's definitely not the case.
Without proof of purchase, a store has no obligation to refund, repair or replace.
Stores that "accept" the word of purchasers act in good faith.
Fortunately many people purchase items on credit card transactions, which act as proof of purchase where no docket is available.  There are several other means to verify proof of purchase, but a docket is the best.
Loss prevention officers (store security) know one of the best scams in the business is to steal an item and return it to the store for a cash refund.
Larger chains of stores have mugshots of these scammers for loss preventions officers to review and be wary of: They don't habituate the same shopping centres fro long, for obvious reasons.

visual
I hope you get your birthdate right.  It may be about the only thing possible for you given your ignorance of and looseness with facts in this forum.


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## visual (31 December 2007)

rederob said:


> That's definitely not the case.
> Without proof of purchase, a store has no obligation to refund, repair or replace.
> Stores that "accept" the word of purchasers act in good faith.
> Fortunately many people purchase items on credit card transactions, which act as proof of purchase where no docket is available.  There are several other means to verify proof of purchase, but a docket is the best.
> ...





redbob after this you'll be back on ignore, so don't get excited that I'm replying.
First weren't you supposed to be some kind of welfare or charity worker helping aborigines? Second, I note you now claim to be on a position of power at Big W, so tell me rob, are you the door guy.

By the way consumer affair will confirm this if anyone cares to check you do not need a receipt in order to prove that you bought the item at a particular place, ever heard of SKU , yep they identify the actual store but being the guy at the door stop you probably wounldn't know that. A receipt simply proves that someone paid for the item not necessarily you! By the way rob scammers such as you mentioned don't even need to leave the store to accomplish the scam they simply pick the item up and then take it to the counter for a refund, plus going by your logic all they have to do is wait outside the store and pick discarded receipts as people dump them. Honesty works both ways but a genuinely faulty item will be replaced or refunded with or without receipt as the law states.

Now how's that charity work going, bought any fridges for your aboriginals friends lately! after all it must be so annoying to buy food and then realise that they have nowhere to store it, LOL


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## dalek (31 December 2007)

rederob said:


> That's definitely not the case.
> Without proof of purchase, a store has no obligation to refund, repair or replace.
> Stores that "accept" the word of purchasers act in good faith.
> 
> ...


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## Uncle Festivus (31 December 2007)

visual said:


> By the way consumer affair will confirm this if anyone cares to check you do not need a receipt in order to prove that you bought the item at a particular place.......
> 
> Honesty works both ways but a genuinely faulty item will be replaced or refunded with or without receipt as the law states.




From the NSW Office Of Fair Trading link above - 

*What obligations do consumers have?*

                                                          If a consumer wants a refund they should:
 report the details of the fault or take the goods back to the trader    as soon as possible
  state what remedy they would    like
 *provide proof of purchase when returning the    goods*
 be sure that they did not cause the fault
 stop using the faulty item
 make sure they care for the goods while in    possession.


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## visual (31 December 2007)

http://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/d...b43f0840e206f632ca257300007a41ee!OpenDocument

DON’T BARGAIN YOUR REFUND RIGHTS DURING STOCKTAKE SALES


Mr Andrews said stores were obliged to offer consumers a choice between a refund, repair, exchange or credit in cases where: 
· the products purchased are faulty;
· they are significantly different to those shown or described to consumers; or
· the products are not doing what they’re supposed to.

“It is also a very good idea to hold onto receipts as stores will generally not give refunds if proof of purchase is not provided.

Note: it doesn't actually state what proof of purchase is, so sku, selling the item, can all be put forward as proof. Plus it also only refers to a refund, generally under the genuinely faulty item defence you will be given a replacement or a credit note.


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## visual (31 December 2007)

Further to my post of 2 20 pm

http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/shopping/refundsandrepairs.html

When are consumers not entitled to a refund?


 However, traders should not refuse a refund solely because there is no receipt, if they are satisfied that the goods were purchased from their store

And this from Big W themselves
http://www.bigw.com.au/services.html



Without a receipt
If you do not have a receipt, identification showing your name, address and signature will be required 
Refunds may be by cheque mailed to your home address within 10 working days 
    * See the important exclusions and procedures below.

BIG W is not obliged to give you a repair, exchange or refund if you change your mind after purchase. Choose carefully, particularly when purchasing the following lines. If sealed do not open!


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## rederob (31 December 2007)

visual said:


> http://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/d...b43f0840e206f632ca257300007a41ee!OpenDocument
> 
> DON’T BARGAIN YOUR REFUND RIGHTS DURING STOCKTAKE SALES
> 
> ...



visual
You clearly have no idea about this issue, and you should stop posting is if you did.
People with goods that are returnable under the consumer affairs laws of their State have a right to a *refund*.
Sellers may offer exchanges or credit notes, but if the goods were not fit for purpose, then a refund can be demanded.
Proof of purchase has many acceptable precedents.
The bottom line is that if you cannot show the seller that you made the purchase, then you are on your own, or you can take the matter to court.


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## visual (31 December 2007)

rob Smurf made it clear that the item he purchased was faulty, yet in a haste to impress with your own personal power or influence you got so carried away you forgot what the actual thread was about, let's see!

However, if you do not have the original purchase docket, whistle Dixie.

That's definitely not the case.
Without proof of purchase, a store has no obligation to refund, repair or replace.

People with goods that are returnable under the consumer affairs laws of their State have a right to a refund

hmmm doesn't look like you understood Smurf's post at all! anyway you must be so busy at that door you're probably tired,


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## RichKid (31 December 2007)

Folks, I think we've helped Smurf as much as possible for the moment, let's see what happens once he returns from BigW this arvo, having been armed beforehand with ASF know-how.

Meanwhile, if you want to continue what would ordinarily be expected to be a fruitful and productive discussion for shoppers, I suggest you drop the personal invective. Try pm or try not posting til you've calmed down- or you could type out your whole angst ridden post and then delete it to let out the heat....then retype a decent one according to the ASF code of conduct and posting guidelines. Deal with the issue rather than aspersions about the poster's character traits or occupation. Remember that even if someone makes an error they may have done so inadvertently in the spirit of cooperation and kindness so let's be a bit forgiving- even top QC's get it wrong.

Let's try to end this year on a positive note, we're all just trying to help out Smurf here so let's continue in that benevolent spirit.
---

Happy New Year to everyone! May it be a prosperous and joyful one for you all!!


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## Smurf1976 (31 December 2007)

I'll keep out of the debate in the previous few posts but here's what happened.

In short, they offered a replacement up front until they realised they were out of stock. Then they offered a refund without question. 

I asked instead if they could check with two other Big W stores that aren't too far away and see if they had the item in stock. No luck there, all stores are out of stock. 

They said I could have a refund or wait for more stock to arrive and then swap the faulty one for a new one. Since the price I paid was discounted and it's not urgent, I chose to wait and see what happens in a week. Only downside was having to put if back in the car again etc.

Overall, excellent service and better than I expected after I read their refunds policy on their website. Only minor fault I could find was not knowing when more stock would be delivered - I would have thought that info would be all computerised and easily accessible.


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## rederob (31 December 2007)

Smurf1976 said:


> Only minor fault I could find was not knowing when more stock would be delivered - I would have thought that info would be all computerised and easily accessible.




Smurf
Because its Xmas they would have had no chance getting through to anyone that could give you other than a guess.
I tried to buy a wheelbarrow from Bunnings on Saturday. The store had about 10 left on the shopfloor - none suitable.  They said they would have more in the new year - their best guess (not bad given it's tomorrow).
Believe it or not the local harware shop (which is about as big as a double garage) had 8 wheelbarrows and I bought one a good deal cheaper than anything I saw comparable at Bunnings - and it wasn't even on special.
Now just have to pour the concrete driveway to justify the purchase!


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## Smurf1976 (1 January 2008)

rederob said:


> Smurf
> Now just have to pour the concrete driveway to justify the purchase!



New Year's resolution for a new driveway?


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## Julia (26 October 2010)

Six months ago I bought a kettle from "The Warehouse".  Great design, backlighting etc.  A couple of days ago the mechanism of button which raises lid failed.  Took it back with receipt as proof of purchase.

I was told that they no longer refund or replace any faulty goods if fault occurs more than *fourteen days* after purchase, and I'd have to send it back to the manufacturer.

Now, it wasn't an expensive kettle and the postage involved in sending back to manufacturer obviously wouldn't be worthwhile, and in the meantime I'd be without kettle, so this seems to be some sort of move to make customers give up and just buy new item.

However, they cannot do this.  Under statutory warranty they have to provide an article which reasonably does the job expected for a reasonable amount of time.   I pointed this out and suggested Fair Trading would be interested in their 14 day policy.  Young assistant checked what she should do with the manager, and they backed right off, and yes would replace the dreaded kettle.

Thought I'd mention it, as not everyone is aware of the obligation of retailers re statutory warranty.


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## Boggo (29 October 2010)

This is an interesting site Julia, you may find some reference to it on here.
http://www.recalls.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/952879

Worthwhile having a look at cars if you as you were looking a while ago.
Clicking on each one on the left is interesting.


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## UBIQUITOUS (29 October 2010)

Thanks for that link Boggo.

I'm rushing to check the model number of my Breville:



> What are the defects?
> 
> A potential risk has been identified where the blade may break when subjected to heavy loads, creating a risk of the metal blade remaining in the beverage if left undetected.


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## Julia (29 October 2010)

Thanks for the link, Boggo.

An update on my earlier post re the statutory warranty.

The day after that episode, the convection/microwave in the same brand took on a life of its own, just turning itself on without anything in it, running for a minute in every ten.

Nine months old.  Took it back, expecting another battle. 
Not at all.  I'd have been happy with part refund given I'd had 9 months of use, but was simply asked if I wanted refund or replacement, opted for refund, and full amount was paid over with a smile.  So maybe management had done a bit of a rethink about their statutory warranty obligations.

I've learned a good lesson, though, i.e. not to ever buy cheap stuff.


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## Tysonboss1 (30 October 2010)

In my store i offer customers exchange of the item if it is within 7days of purchase.

after 7 days I offer to repair the item, if on examination it can not be repaired I exchange it.

I have never had to give a cash refund.

I don't really believe in cash refunds, becuase I don't believe i should have to refund a customer just because they have changed their mind, and if they haven't changed there mind then they still need the product so an exchange or repair would suit them better anyway.


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## Julia (30 October 2010)

Tysonboss1 said:


> In my store i offer customers exchange of the item if it is within 7days of purchase.
> 
> after 7 days I offer to repair the item, if on examination it can not be repaired I exchange it.
> 
> ...



No one is expecting a refund 'because they have changed their mind'.
But under the terms of the statutory warranty (nothing to do with manufacturer's warranty) if the product is faulty, i.e. does not work as it is supposed to, the retailer is obliged to replace or refund.

If a brand has repeatedly failed, then why would the customer want it again?

Re a repair, fair enough, except that the customer has the inconvenience of being without a necessary appliance while it's sent away for repair.

Here is the info from Department of Fair Trading, Queensland.
http://www.fairtrading.qld.gov.au/refunds.htm

If I were a retailer I'd be very conscious of goodwill and potentially losing a customer.


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