# Cashless society



## sptrawler (19 May 2019)

I read somewhere, that Norway was heading toward a cashless system, after visiting there it looks as though they may be. IMO
It is one of the only places I have been, where it was cheaper to purchase something on the card, than with cash. There was two prices on an article the wife was looking at, 49euro for card 69euro for cash, so I looked at other items in various shops, the same thing.
It might have been specific to the areas I visited, but it was the first time I had seen it.


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## Zaxon (19 May 2019)

sptrawler said:


> It might have been specific to the areas I visited, but it was the first time I had seen it.



I watched a documentary on it.  It's right across the country. The reason given is that cash has a cost of handling: vans have to cart it, people/machines have to physically count it.  So essentially they charge you for the bother.  I can see that happening in other countries in the future.


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## tech/a (19 May 2019)

I can’t buy anything at the footy unless it’s paid by card!


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## sptrawler (19 May 2019)

Zaxon said:


> I watched a documentary on it.  It's right across the country. The reason given is that cash has a cost of handling: vans have to cart it, people/machines have to physically count it.  So essentially they charge you for the bother.  I can see that happening in other countries in the future.



That's interesting, it is the first time I have seen a cash transaction dearer, than an eftpos transaction.


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## sptrawler (19 May 2019)

tech/a said:


> I can’t buy anything at the footy unless it’s paid by card!



I don't go to the footy, but that is interesting.


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## PZ99 (20 May 2019)

The believers will love this. 

To them it's a one way trip to a chip in the hand on the highway to hell.

I on the other hand see the merits of simplicity


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## Lantern (20 May 2019)

Where I live it is only recently you could use a card for transactions and we still have a few establishments where, if you show them a card they look at you as if you are stupid. 15 years ago nothing could be bought with a card except maybe fuel.


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## Bill M (20 May 2019)

I opened a Industry Super Fund online and everything including ID and TFN was done electronically. The transfer of my previous fund was all done electronically too. Now I am drawing a pension from it and I have never ever submitted a piece of paper or cash money, nor did i need any documents signed by a JP. It was too easy and I like it this way, no problems at all, fast and easy to track everything.


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## moXJO (20 May 2019)

Dangerous thing not having cash. One good attack on the system and it all goes down.


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## jbocker (20 May 2019)

My wife must be very progressive in these things and we don't live in Norway, we are cardless and cashless.


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## Zaxon (20 May 2019)

jbocker said:


> My wife must be very progressive in these things and we don't live in Norway, we are cardless and cashless.



We're the same. It annoys me that I have to carry cash for, say, the local fish n chips shop, etc.  But I can go months without ever using cash.


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## wayneL (20 May 2019)

Here is the danger in a cashless Society. It becomes very easy for either of the state and / or activist companies to the person you. There are already instances where card companies declined services to certain individuals because they disagree with their politics.


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## trading_rookie (20 May 2019)

That's why cypher-punks advocate cryptocurrencies - no government or corporate control..

Unfortunately, I can see a future where governments will finally adopt crypto - not the one's on offer atm, but their own central bank controlled similar to what Ripple offer (printing) not bitcoin/ethereum/litecoin,etc  (mining) and then marvel at the fact that blockchain can help them eliminate cash jobs.


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## sptrawler (20 May 2019)

Bill M said:


> I opened a Industry Super Fund online and everything including ID and TFN was done electronically. The transfer of my previous fund was all done electronically too. Now I am drawing a pension from it and I have never ever submitted a piece of paper or cash money, nor did i need any documents signed by a JP. It was too easy and I like it this way, no problems at all, fast and easy to track everything.



Did Bill scare you into transferring?


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## sptrawler (20 May 2019)

Lantern said:


> Where I live it is only recently you could use a card for transactions and we still have a few establishments where, if you show them a card they look at you as if you are stupid. 15 years ago nothing could be bought with a card except maybe fuel.



When the NBN is finished, all premises in Australia will have access to the internet, there will be no excuse for a business not to have electronic payment available. Well that is my guess.


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## Bill M (20 May 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Did Bill scare you into transferring?



Nah, did it a year ago. By the way on 60 Minutes last night they reckon Sweden is about to go cashless too. It is logical and inevitable. I still got $190 cash left from $200 in my wallet from 6 Months ago, don't use cash anymore much. 

Remember back 30 years ago? Armoured Trucks carrying money everywhere, you'd see 2 or 3 day. Now you'd be lucky to see 2 or 3 a Month. 3 armed guards to a truck. Guards were getting murdered on the job, now it hardly ever happens, there are benefits.


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## sptrawler (20 May 2019)

I should have thought of it earlier, just google it, guess I'm showing my age.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/norway-first-cashless-society-2018-4?r=US&IR=T

https://cashessentials.org/news/norway-strives-to-get-rid-of-cash/

Jeez Bill you were right about Sweden.

https://interestingengineering.com/sweden-how-to-live-in-the-worlds-first-cashless-society


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## 12Percent (21 May 2019)

Can't come quick enough as far as I'm concerned.

Cash is not king, it is a burden, labour intensive and a liability.

I rarely use cash, I do keep a 20 in my wallet just for Bunnings sausage sandwiches.


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## BlindSquirrel (21 May 2019)

Oh Norway


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## jbocker (21 May 2019)

OK I am going to do the right thing and help get a cashless society HERE in AUSTRALIA.

Just send me all your cash and I WILL get rid of it. 100% guaranteed. I will accept any amount from anyone. No questions asked.
BUT WAIT there's MORE.
For those who send over  a $100 000 Australian dollars and for this week ONLY. You will win a free car to the value of $45000.  That's right Folks a FREE CAR, any car of your choice up to the value of $45 000.

I know you think this is UNBELIVEABLE but its true. I gave over a $50 000 and its GONE.

BE QUICK and join the Cashless society NOW.
Honest JB is here to help you.


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## sptrawler (21 May 2019)

jbocker said:


> OK I am going to do the right thing and help get a cashless society HERE in AUSTRALIA.
> 
> Just send me all your cash and I WILL get rid of it. 100% guaranteed. I will accept any amount from anyone. No questions asked.
> BUT WAIT there's MORE.
> ...



You must have been Labor's campaign manager.


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## moXJO (21 May 2019)

Theres a reason why nan and pop kept it under the mattress.
Run on banks. Say goodbye to your money altogether in some instances.

In the event of war. 

Cyber attacks.

Govt intervention.

And banks charge you for transactions.

No society should go completely cashless. I'm seeing a lot of small businesses going back to cash. 

I like the convenience of a card but you can lose track of those taps.


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## jbocker (21 May 2019)

sptrawler said:


> You must have been Labor's campaign manager.



...only for Tax and franking credits reforms but my speciality was Opinion Polls.


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## Zaxon (21 May 2019)

moXJO said:


> Theres a reason why nan and pop kept it under the mattress.
> Run on banks. Say goodbye to your money altogether in some instances.
> 
> In the event of war.
> ...



I know there are "prepper" types who don't trust cash. They accumulate gold, silver etc, commodities with "real value".

If you want a functioning society, you've got to trust someone sometime.  The cash of a fiat currency is based on a promise, not on true value.  In the same way, digital transactions are based on a promise.


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## moXJO (21 May 2019)

Zaxon said:


> I know there are "prepper" types who don't trust cash. They accumulate gold, silver etc, commodities with "real value".
> 
> If you want a functioning society, you've got to trust someone sometime.  The cash of a fiat currency is based on a promise, not on true value.  In the same way, digital transactions are based on a promise.



Digital is easier to go down though. 
Not against it, just that cash should be kept in the economy. Quantum computing could cause all kinds of havoc as well.


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## sptrawler (8 September 2019)

Well the beginning of the transition starts. IMO

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...less-debit-card-roll-out-20190907-p52oxb.html

What was the old saying, "it might not happen this week, but it will happen".
The Government is playing the long game and it wont matter which party is in. IMO


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## HelloU (8 September 2019)

My local cake/pie shop does not accept cash at all. Buying something there is not compulsory, it is a voluntary process. 

The food/wine festival I went to last weekend was totally cashless as well. It was also not compulsory. Those that did not wish to participate that way did not enter the festival. 

Pretty sure that the application process for welfare is not compulsory. Pretty sure that the welfare application is a voluntary process. 

SIMPLES.


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## SirRumpole (8 September 2019)

So all our data is there, ready to be criminalised or sold to corporations or used against us somehow. You bought roses and dinner for your wife while she was out of town, maybe she would like to know, you were at this shop on a particular day and spent $x on grog etc...

I got a email the other day saying I had been "spotted" watching pr0n because my email address was hacked on a forum website where I had an account (not this one).

The more information there is about us the more likely it will be used against us somehow. Our privacy and our freedom is at and end, and there isn't much we can do about it.


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## sptrawler (8 September 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> So all our data is there, ready to be criminalised or sold to corporations or used against us somehow. You bought roses and dinner for your wife while she was out of town, maybe she would like to know, you were at this shop on a particular day and spent $x on grog etc...
> 
> I got a email the other day saying I had been "spotted" watching pr0n because my email address was hacked on a forum website where I had an account (not this one).
> 
> The more information there is about us the more likely it will be used against us somehow. Our privacy and our freedom is at and end, and there isn't much we can do about it.




Very true Rumpy, the World is changing, quicker than I thought it would, in a way it is good to be on the home straight.


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## HelloU (8 September 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> So all our data is there, ready to be criminalised or sold to corporations or used against us somehow. You bought roses and dinner for your wife while she was out of town, maybe she would like to know, you were at this shop on a particular day and spent $x on grog etc...
> 
> I got a email the other day saying I had been "spotted" watching pr0n because my email address was hacked on a forum website where I had an account (not this one).
> 
> The more information there is about us the more likely it will be used against us somehow. Our privacy and our freedom is at and end, and there isn't much we can do about it.



Not egg sucking here hopefully.
Aside:  Before you open an email, If you hover your mouse over the email "sender" the actual real name of the account sender should be displayed in a "pop-up". If on the off chance your setup does not support that then there are other ways to do that without having to open the actual email.
Also, most email software allows the use of multiple aliases ...... these can be very handy to avoid/source the problem you are saying.


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## SirRumpole (8 September 2019)

HelloU said:


> Not egg sucking here hopefully.
> Aside:  Before you open an email, If you hover your mouse over the email "sender" the actual real name of the account sender should be displayed in a "pop-up". If on the off chance your setup does not support that then there are other ways to do that without having to open the actual email.
> Also, most email software allows the use of multiple aliases ...... these can be very handy to avoid/source the problem you are saying.




Thanks, good advice. The problem is that the email came from (seemingly) my account which had been "pwned" via a data breach on another forum.


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## SirRumpole (8 September 2019)

sptrawler said:


> Very true Rumpy, the World is changing, quicker than I thought it would, in a way it is good to be on the home straight.




Race you to it !


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## Zaxon (11 September 2019)

I went to a Tattersalls agency in my local shopping center to buy a birthday card.  Went to "tap" to pay for it, as I do with any other business, and was told "they only accept cash here".  In a TattsLotto shop they don't accept cards? 

A very curious business decision they've made here.  I'm not sure if people who buy Tatts tickets are more likely to normally use cash, or whether the franchise/franchisee simply doesn't want to deal with cards.  If the latter is the case, I'm sure it annoys a lot of their customers.


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## PZ99 (11 September 2019)

Buy a lotto ticket and demand cash when you win


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## Zaxon (11 September 2019)

PZ99 said:


> Buy a lotto ticket and demand cash when you win



lol.  Sure.  Fair's fair.


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## sptrawler (23 September 2019)

Sydney public transport goes cashless, it will make it a lot easier for tourists.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...red-for-sydney-transport-20190923-p52twp.html


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## moXJO (18 October 2019)

CBA went down and my wife cannot access any off her money or pay any bills. It was funny till she took mine.
CBA truly made it a cashless society.


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## PZ99 (18 October 2019)

Banks going down seems to be happening a lot these days - which implies they have little or no redundancy in their systems -  which further implies instability and dubious security. Scary really.


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## jbocker (18 October 2019)

jbocker said:


> OK I am going to do the right thing and help get a cashless society HERE in AUSTRALIA.
> 
> Just send me all your cash and I WILL get rid of it. 100% guaranteed. I will accept any amount from anyone. No questions asked.
> BUT WAIT there's MORE.
> ...




OK I can quite safely safe that a cashless society will NOT happen.
After 6 months I have not had one response to help make Australia a cashless society from my previous offer, but I will persist for those of you want to change your mind. DONT RISK going cashless by just doing share trades (as I have done). I will guarantee my results and far quicker.

Hurry while the offer lasts before I take this offer overseas in an effort to outdo scammers.


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## sptrawler (18 October 2019)

I wonder if CBA's issues were related to a software 'upgrade', it always seems like an oxymoron, upgrades seem to cause problems when they are meant to fix them.


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## moXJO (18 October 2019)

sptrawler said:


> I wonder if CBA's issues were related to a software 'upgrade', it always seems like an oxymoron, upgrades seem to cause problems when they are meant to fix them.



Money was locked in. You couldn't atm, bank teller, eftpos, internet bank,  or anything to get your money out. They actually shutdown branches. 
I know a few people who got stuck at the petrol station not being able to pay after filling up. Just imagine a week long debacle.


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## SirRumpole (18 October 2019)

moXJO said:


> Money was locked in. You couldn't atm, bank teller, eftpos, internet bank,  or anything to get your money out. They actually shutdown branches.
> I know a few people who got stuck at the petrol station not being able to pay after filling up. Just imagine a week long debacle.




Would be nice if they paid $50 to all their depositors for the inconvenience.


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## sptrawler (18 October 2019)

moXJO said:


> Money was locked in. You couldn't atm, bank teller, eftpos, internet bank,  or anything to get your money out. They actually shutdown branches.
> I know a few people who got stuck at the petrol station not being able to pay after filling up. Just imagine a week long debacle.



Well one thing for sure, it will flag a lot of issues that need resolving, before they even contemplate electronic only transaction.
There is nothing better than real life experience, it beats 1000 brainstorming 'what if' sessions, hands down.


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## sptrawler (18 October 2019)

SirRumpole said:


> Would be nice if they paid $50 to all their depositors for the inconvenience.



I think I heard 20,000 CBA share holders hit the floor, as they passed out, when reading that one.


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## moXJO (6 January 2020)

Downside of cashless in the recent fires.



> "All the ATMs are down, and the young people these days travel with no money, so they were even more panicked."




https://9now.nine.com.au/a-current-...km7DUXpyOkVG9IZZBqJ2rq_lw4AbfMEcOu3BpkIzA9ShE


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## againsthegrain (6 January 2020)

moXJO said:


> Downside of cashless in the recent fires.
> 
> because only
> 
> https://9now.nine.com.au/a-current-...km7DUXpyOkVG9IZZBqJ2rq_lw4AbfMEcOu3BpkIzA9ShE





moXJO said:


> Downside of cashless in the recent fires.
> 
> 
> 
> https://9now.nine.com.au/a-current-...km7DUXpyOkVG9IZZBqJ2rq_lw4AbfMEcOu3BpkIzA9ShE



because there is no legitimate reason to carry cash apparently unless your a "criminal"


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## sptrawler (6 January 2020)

moXJO said:


> Downside of cashless in the recent fires.
> 
> 
> 
> https://9now.nine.com.au/a-current-...km7DUXpyOkVG9IZZBqJ2rq_lw4AbfMEcOu3BpkIzA9ShE



Also mobile phones were useless.


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## frugal.rock (6 January 2020)

As a family, we occasionally come across businesses that only accept cash... I prefer to use a cashless payment method so often will let my feet do the talking by spending elsewhere.
In thinking why they choose to be cash only, thoughts of tax avoidance springs to mind, along with illegal worker's paid cash... below awards and minimums etc.
Heck, if I can't track my Missus's cash spending, how is the government supposed to keep track in the economy? 
F.Rock


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## tinhat (7 January 2020)

I must admit I have not read this discussion. If by cashless you mean fiat paper money, no argument. I posit that fiat paper money "cash" will become less useful because fiat currency will become less useful. Public cryptoledger will steal utility from fiat money. It will make stores of value such as gold readily transferable while ensuring the non-fungible integrity of the underlying asset.

Monetary policy enacted through fiat currency will become next to useless. The great inflation of fiat money debt is happening before our eyes. As to the social outcomes of this tumult: friction causes heat.


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## sptrawler (13 January 2020)

Interesting article on the $10,000 cash limit law being proposed, it also probably explains why the big push by AUSTRAC for the Banks to get their systems in order.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01...bout-controlling-your-money-says-rba/11858104


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## sptrawler (13 January 2020)

More on thread is this little pearler, this is classic 'cashless' at its best.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/com...e-stores-within-10-years-20200110-p53qbd.html

If this became cheap mainstream technology in the retail sector, the job losses would be astronomical, the only jobs would be security chasing those who have no identification and do a runner with the goods.


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## jbocker (13 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> More on thread is this little pearler, this is classic 'cashless' at its best.
> 
> https://www.smh.com.au/business/com...e-stores-within-10-years-20200110-p53qbd.html
> 
> If this became cheap mainstream technology in the retail sector, the job losses would be astronomical, the only jobs would be security chasing those who have no identification and do a runner with the goods.



BIG GROCER IS WATCHING YOU!


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## qldfrog (13 January 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Interesting article on the $10,000 cash limit law being proposed, it also probably explains why the big push by AUSTRAC for the Banks to get their systems in order.
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01...bout-controlling-your-money-says-rba/11858104



I was ROL...no no we do not want to control you..not at all..ROL
Sleep well


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## qldfrog (13 January 2020)

https://www.newstatesman.com/cultur...s-our-society-already-pixar-s-dystopia-wall-e
E-vote, e-car driverless, no cash required and universal income, a bit more brainwash and we are there.


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## Dona Ferentes (13 January 2020)

*Proposed cash ban is not about controlling your money, says Reserve Bank*
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01...your-money-says-rba/11858104?section=business


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## Dona Ferentes (13 January 2020)

sorry about duplicate post. (sptrawler)

I always carry some cash ... but am suspicious of those (usually small family businesses) that insist on it.

And I'm sure any organised criminality could, if not avoid, at least create confusion by swapping debit/ credit cards/ phones. _I wozznt there guv _


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## sptrawler (10 February 2020)

https://au.news.yahoo.com/japan-ruling-party-panel-aims-060305694.html
Japan is unlikely to issue a digital currency any time soon due to technical and legal issues, but the ongoing moves highlight pressure Tokyo feels in the face of progress China and Facebook have made on digital currencies.

Central banks across the world have quickened the pace at which they are looking at issuing central bank digital currencies (CBDCs).
"If each country manages to control flows of money with their own (digital) currencies, that could prevent a big swing at a time of crisis and stabilize their own economy," he said.


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## fergee (11 February 2020)

sptrawler said:


> https://au.news.yahoo.com/japan-ruling-party-panel-aims-060305694.html
> Japan is unlikely to issue a digital currency any time soon due to technical and legal issues, but the ongoing moves highlight pressure Tokyo feels in the face of progress China and Facebook have made on digital currencies.
> 
> Central banks across the world have quickened the pace at which they are looking at issuing central bank digital currencies (CBDCs).
> "If each country manages to control flows of money with their own (digital) currencies, that could prevent a big swing at a time of crisis and stabilize their own economy," he said.




I was talking to an ex banker here in Japan a couple of weeks ago and we were talking about the rapid adoption of mobile phone payments here like line pay and paypay.  Its amazing how fast its getting adopted now I saw a lady pay for a 37yen radish with paypay today! He was saying to me that the government here is very keen to get rid of cash payments due to the amount of tax fraud here as most small business's run two sets of books. Also the banks will be better capitalised as theres a huge amount of people here who have safes full of cash in their homes. The regional banks could do with shoring up as well, from what I hear they are not very solvent.

The Japanese government is desperate for tax revenue, its the main reason for the relaxation of immigration. They need the tax revenue to pay for all the debt they have accumulated from all the older generation that they spent on white elephants. They are really stuck between a rock and hard place now its either get more tax payers through immigration or default on the debt ripping off the elderly people who basically built the modern nation. Interest rates will not rise here for another 20 years imo its just not possible without having the tax payer base to service the debt and Japanese people are not really found of immigration to be frank.


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## Humid (11 February 2020)

Can't get a beer on Qantaslink without cash


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## Boggo (11 February 2020)

Had brekky with some friends on Jetty Rd Brighton a few weeks ago.
The bill was $84 exactly and we said split it, I will pay cash and my mate was going to use his card.
The waitress went back inside and came back with a calculator to work out how much my half was !

I guess tapping the credit card is adding to another area of concern ?


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## sptrawler (12 March 2020)

fergee said:


> I was talking to an ex banker here in Japan a couple of weeks ago and we were talking about the rapid adoption of mobile phone payments here like line pay and paypay.  Its amazing how fast its getting adopted now I saw a lady pay for a 37yen radish with paypay today! He was saying to me that the government here is very keen to get rid of cash payments due to the amount of tax fraud here as most small business's run two sets of books. Also the banks will be better capitalised as theres a huge amount of people here who have safes full of cash in their homes. The regional banks could do with shoring up as well, from what I hear they are not very solvent.
> 
> The Japanese government is desperate for tax revenue, its the main reason for the relaxation of immigration. They need the tax revenue to pay for all the debt they have accumulated from all the older generation that they spent on white elephants. They are really stuck between a rock and hard place now its either get more tax payers through immigration or default on the debt ripping off the elderly people who basically built the modern nation. Interest rates will not rise here for another 20 years imo its just not possible without having the tax payer base to service the debt and Japanese people are not really found of immigration to be frank.



Here is another reason the Government is pushing for cashless.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...e-life-of-andrew-mcmanus-20200311-p5495q.html
From the article:
_Prominent Australian music promoter Andrew McManus was taking cocaine and sometimes a bottle "or two" of vodka a day when he agreed to lie to police by claiming a $700,000 bag of cash belonged to him, a Sydney court has heard.
McManus was later heard on phone taps telling his friend, crime figure Craig Haeusler, that he had "aced" his police interview. "Mate, I was a f---in’ Academy Award winner," he said.

The jury has heard that in August 2011 an anonymous caller claimed the occupant of room 3206 at the Hilton Hotel had a gun. Instead of a weapon, police seized an overnight bag containing $702,000 in cash in the possession of personal trainer Sean Carolan_.

Amazing the amount of cash that is found alongside drug operations, even in suburban busts, there is usually a couple of hundred thousand found with the drugs.


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## sptrawler (8 April 2020)

Another article on the push to a cashless system.
https://www.watoday.com.au/business...wards-a-cashless-society-20200408-p54i6u.html


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## sptrawler (9 June 2020)

Well the virus has certainly accelerated the move to 'cashless society', what did Bob Dylan sing, "times they are a changing".

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06...m-swedens-move-to-a-cashless-society/12282764


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## sptrawler (8 July 2020)

Woolworths going cashless in a few metro stores.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/woolworths-rolls-out-new-shopping-trial-at-select-stores-075257457.html


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## Lantern (8 July 2020)

.A cashless society means no cash.  Zero. . It doesn’t mean mostly cashless and you can still use a ‘wee bit of cash here & there’. Cashless means fully digital, fully traceable, fully controlled. I think those who support a cashless society aren’t fully aware of what they are asking for. A cashless society means:

* Your child can’t go & help the local farmer to earn a bit of cash.
* No more cash slipped into the hands of a child from their grandparent when going on holidays.
* No more money in birthday cards.
* No more piggy banks for your child to collect pocket money & to learn about the value of earning.
* No more cash for a rainy day fund or for that something special you have been putting $10 a week away for.
* No more selling bits & pieces from your home that you no longer want/need for a bit of cash in return.
* No more cash gifts from relatives or loved ones.

What a cashless society does guarantee:

* Banks have full control of every single cent you own.
* Every transaction you make is recorded.
* All your movements & actions are traceable.
* Access to your money can be blocked at the click of a button when/if banks need ‘clarification’ from you which could take weeks, a hundred questions answered & five hundred passwords.
* If your transactions are deemed in any way questionable, by those who create the questions, your money will be frozen, ‘for your own good’.

And before anybody slams this post ... don’t go shooting the messenger .. I’m sharing it because maybe we all need to take off our blinkers. Forget about cash being dirty. Cash has been around for a very, very long time & it gives you control over how you trade with the world. It gives you independence.

If you are a customer, pay with cash. If you are a shop owner, remove those ridiculous signs that ask people to pay by card. Cash is a legal tender, it is our right to pay with cash. Banks are making it increasingly difficult to lodge cash & that has nothing to do with a virus.

Please stop believing everything you hear on the TV. Politics & greed is what is wrong with the world; not those who are trying to alert you to the reality.
Please pay with cash & please say no to a cashless society while you still have a choice.


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## sptrawler (8 July 2020)

Lantern said:


> .A cashless society means no cash.  Zero. . It doesn’t mean mostly cashless and you can still use a ‘wee bit of cash here & there’. Cashless means fully digital, fully traceable, fully controlled. I think those who support a cashless society aren’t fully aware of what they are asking for.




I agree 100%, but i do think eventually it will be inevitable, it will be brought in through stages and it will change a lot of things.


----------



## makteb (8 July 2020)

We do not want a cashless society.

If we do, there needs to be a medium to allow detachment from society to give true freedom to a failed state/economy.  Otherwise we are nothing but plugins to the world known as the matrix.


----------



## sptrawler (8 July 2020)

makteb said:


> We do not want a cashless society.
> 
> If we do, there needs to be a medium to allow detachment from society to give true freedom to a failed state/economy.  Otherwise we are nothing but plugins to the world known as the matrix.



Then today, you read this:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07...ons-in-cash-in-car-south-of-brisbane/12434556
From the article:
_Police said Simon Andrew Cross, 37, was driving along the Pacific Motorway at Eight Mile Plains on Tuesday morning when he was pulled over.

The Brisbane Magistrates Court heard a search of his car revealed $1.75 million in cash stacked inside a suitcase and $2.61 million in a cardboard box.

Police said an investigation to determine the "origin" of the money was ongoing but they had charged Mr Cross with one count of receiving tainted property_.

That is more money than most people save in their whole lives, it might be legit, but would you be carrying it around in you car if it was your life savings?
I don't think the cashless society will be brought about, by the tradie doing the cashie or mum and dad paying someone on the side, I think they are just collateral damage.


----------



## rogerlg (8 July 2020)

he may have been going to the local political branch to make a donation


----------



## moXJO (8 July 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Then today, you read this:
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07...ons-in-cash-in-car-south-of-brisbane/12434556
> From the article:
> _Police said Simon Andrew Cross, 37, was driving along the Pacific Motorway at Eight Mile Plains on Tuesday morning when he was pulled over.
> ...



One way or another it would still get taxed and more than likely spent into the economy.

China could shut us down in a day if we went cashless.


----------



## qldfrog (8 July 2020)

rogerlg said:


> he may have been going to the local political branch to make a donation



or could he be a local mayor?


----------



## sptrawler (8 July 2020)

moXJO said:


> One way or another it would still get taxed and more than likely spent into the economy.
> 
> China could shut us down in a day if we went cashless.



China could shut us down in a day anyway, they just buy up our companies, or pay extra and buy their resources from Africa and South America.
Having a biggest dick argument with China wont work, you might have  bigger dick, but they will have a sharper knife.


----------



## wayneL (8 July 2020)

moXJO said:


> China could shut us down in a day if we went cashless.




This is a very underestimated risk, and yes, an easily exploited vulnerability.


----------



## sptrawler (6 October 2020)

Unlikely supporters of a cashless system, another grey area.








						One Nation, Greens form unlikely alliance to support gambling card
					

The government wants to move to cashless poker machines and require players to register for a government-issued gambling card in the most sweeping gaming reforms in the state's history.




					www.smh.com.au


----------



## sptrawler (7 December 2020)

It looks as though the $10k cash limit law has been put to bed, for now.









						The cash ban law is dead, but all over the world we're moving further towards a cashless society
					

A controversial law that would have banned payments of $10,000 and imposed two-year jail sentences on people using cash for purchases above that limit has been killed in the Senate. But it could be revived.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## wayneL (7 December 2020)

sptrawler said:


> It looks as though the $10k cash limit law has been put to bed, for now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



"For now" being the correct qualification.

Our dystopian comrades of the Labor Party have this policy in an iron long refusing to let die and be buried for forever.

A Labor government at the next election, should the Australian people be stupid enough to elect one, could, and probably would, resurrect this policy like a phoenix from the ashes.


----------



## jbocker (7 December 2020)

moXJO said:


> China could shut us down in a day if we went cashless.



Nah. No Way. You are exaggerating for the millionth time. There is no way they could shut us dow.. 是的， 我们可以交配


----------



## sptrawler (28 June 2021)

The cashless society raises its head again, the central banks have been very quiet of late, regarding cashless.








						The future of money might be closer than we think
					

The Bank for International Settlements’ latest thoughts on central bank-issued digital currencies are revealing.




					www.smh.com.au
				



From the article:
While there’s been a lot of focus on the language the Bank for International Settlements used to describe cryptocurrencies and stablecoins in a pre-released chapter of its annual report last week the more substantial take away from its paper lies not in that language but in the overall tone of its discussion of central bank-issued digital currencies.

The major central banks have generally adopted an ultra-cautious and quite leisurely approach to their investigations of the potential of central bank digital currencies (CBDCs) and have been dismissive of the implications of cryptocurrencies and other private-sector digital currency initiatives.
The BIS paper underscores how rapidly that stance is evolving as the Basel institution, sometimes dubbed the central bank for central bankers, takes stock of the acceleration in the real-world development of digital currencies
China is already running a domestic pilot project for the issuance of a digital yuan while also exploring the infrastructure requirements needed to support cross-border usage of a digital currency.

Loading
Facebook, frustrated at the lack of progress in its attempt to obtain Swiss regulatory approval for it planned stablecoin – initially called Libra but rebadged as Diem – has abandoned that effort, shifted its operational headquarters to the US and changed the original proposal of a digital token backed by a basket of currencies to one backed by US dollars.

The Facebook-led consortium backing Diem plans to launch its digital currency, first unveiled in 2019, later this year.

A year ago bitcoin was trading at less than $US10,000. It peaked last month at $US63,000 before crashing below $US35,000. That still gives it a market capitalisation of about $US650 billion. The overall cryptocurrency market is worth about $US1.4 trillion, down from a peak of $US2.5 trillion last month.

While that volatility tends to underwrite the BIS dismissal of cryptocurrencies, and bitcoin in particular, as mere vehicles for speculation – assets so volatile can never be widely-accepted and legitimate media of exchange – they, and privately-issued stablecoins, do represent a large and growing unregulated sliver of the monetary system.

They can be used for money-laundering, tax evasion, criminal and terrorist transactions and, if not regulated and countered, could eventually have implications for the liquidity and stability of the global financial system.
The newfound seriousness with which previously-complacent central bankers are taking those threats was reinforced earlier this year when the UK announced it had created a taskforce to explore the potential of a Bank of England-issued digital currency – a “Britcoin” – to protect the pound against cryptocurrencies and improve the UK payment system.

The BIS appears particularly concerned about the potential for Big Tech to leverage their customer data and network effects to drive acceptance of their cryptocurrencies and entrench their market power.
It cites China’s experience (which led to a major crackdown on its tech sector and helped fast-track the development of the digital yuan), where two big tech companies – Tencent and Alipay – account for 94 per cent of the mobile payment market.

Having recognised that if they don’t respond to the emergence of digital currencies with their own versions and that a critical public interest issue is who will own and have access to customer data – big tech, central banks or regulated intermediaries – the BIS seems to have moved past the question of whether there will be CBDCs to one of the detail of design.

The detail is vital. There are two broad options central banks can follow in creating a digital version of their currency. They can make it available at a wholesale level – issuing it to banks and other authorised institutions – with the existing institutions retaining ownership of the customers and their data.
Another, more radical, option would be to create retail CBDCs, effectively creating a digital version of physical currencies, and issuing them directly to the public.
Retail CBDCs would remove credit risk from the financial system, given they are a direct claim on the central bank and would probably increase competition and innovation but could create existential issues for existing institutions, like banks, that are reliant on customer deposits and generate massive challenges for the central bank in trying to administer individual accounts.
There are also question of data governance and privacy that need to be resolved before a CBDC is workable, whether it’s a wholesale, retail or hybrid version.
While giving a government agency insight into individuals’ daily financial transactions might be attractive to an authoritarian regime, it wouldn’t be tolerated in most developed economies.

The privacy and financial stability issues will shape the design outcomes and probably result in wholesale CBDCs that use existing financial system infrastructure to manage customers and their data, manage the credit assessments and risk-management and comply with anti-money-laundering and other regulatory requirements.
Loading
The BIS favours account-based, identity-linked CBDCs with protections for privacy and security, although that would require a lot of flow-on decisions about the role of banks and other intermediaries and the vexatious core issue of access to the data.
By moving on from the leisurely “should we?” discussions of the past to an acceptance of the inevitability of central bank-issued digital currencies the BIS is helping to bring the future of money and the future financial system closer and dragging its generally reluctant members along with it.
A radical redesign of an ever-evolving but centuries-old monetary system – the first central bank was created in the 17th century – is looming larger and closer as the external pressures for change from privately sponsored and issued digital currencies intensify.


----------



## qldfrog (28 June 2021)

_While giving a government agency insight into individuals’ daily financial transactions might be attractive to an authoritarian regime, it wouldn’t be tolerated in most developed economies.
 _LOL...as if....


----------



## sptrawler (1 August 2021)

The trend to cashless continues.








						Cashless, cashierless, and creepy: a visit to the future of grocery shopping
					

There are no check-outs and no cashiers. If you didn’t know better, you’d think the customers were shoplifting.




					www.smh.com.au


----------



## frugal.rock (1 August 2021)

jbocker said:


> 是的， 我们可以交配



Dunno where you got that "kanji"  from but it basically translates to; 
two animals banging each other...


----------



## frugal.rock (1 August 2021)

Dear Sir/Madam,

We want to update you on the changes we are making to how we report your credit information to credit reporting bodies and the impact this may have on your credit report. Your credit report is what helps lenders determine your suitability for credit products such as a Home Loan, Comprehensive Credit Reporting (CCR), also known as positive credit reporting, is happening across financial institutions in Australia and we will also be doing positive credit reporting.

We will be providing your Comprehensive Credit Reporting data on all loan accounts held with us from 1st September 2021.

What this change means for you
Today your credit history may include information such as when you applied for credit products, as well as any significantly overdue accounts or defaults you have had in the past.

The change means your credit report could include additional information, such as the date you opened your credit account, the type of account opened, the credit limits you have and up to 24 months of repayment history.

As always, protection of your data and privacy is very important to us. Please refer to our Privacy Policy for more information on how we collect, share, use and secure your data.

How this change may help you
Over time, your credit report will provide a more accurate assessment of how you manage your credit obligations. In turn, this helps us to continue to meet your needs whilst lending responsibly and ultimately helping you to achieve your financial goals.

How to get ready for comprehensive credit reporting
We recommend you make your repayments on time – this is more important than ever as it will appear favourably on your credit report.
Consider setting up a direct debit to avoid missing a payment.
Please visit our Comprehensive Credit Reporting page for more information on CCR, what it means for you, how to obtain your credit report and what to do if you are having difficulty making payments or are currently receiving financial assistance from us.

You can also read about credit reporting more broadly at Credit Smart, Australia’s Retail Credit Association website.


The noose is getting tighter and tighter....


----------



## Value Collector (1 August 2021)

jbocker said:


> OK I am going to do the right thing and help get a cashless society HERE in AUSTRALIA.
> 
> Just send me all your cash and I WILL get rid of it. 100% guaranteed. I will accept any amount from anyone. No questions asked.
> BUT WAIT there's MORE.
> ...



You sound like a Bitcoin broker


----------



## mullokintyre (25 October 2021)

frugal.rock said:


> Dear Sir/Madam,
> 
> We want to update you on the changes we are making to how we report your credit information to credit reporting bodies and the impact this may have on your credit report. Your credit report is what helps lenders determine your suitability for credit products such as a Home Loan, Comprehensive Credit Reporting (CCR), also known as positive credit reporting, is happening across financial institutions in Australia and we will also be doing positive credit reporting.
> 
> ...



One of my sons wanted to change banks for his housing loan, and signed a deal with a European bank at a very favourable interest. The bank has since come back to him and his partner saying that the loan swap is on hold because according to the credit Agency that the bank uses to vet potential and existing clients, my son actually is supposed to have died in 2019!.
He is having a lot of difficulty trying to get this rectified and have himself resurrected. I said he should wait till next easter.
To compound matters, the credit agency is USA based, so  any communications with them is a long and tedious process, assuming they bother to respond.
He  has since found out that there are a number of legal firms in the USA who specialise in fixing your credit ranking.
It seems that credit agency screw ups for various reasons is not an uncommon occurrence.
Mick


----------



## Craton (25 October 2021)

mullokintyre said:


> One of my sons wanted to change banks for his housing loan, and signed a deal with a European bank at a very favourable interest. The bank has since come back to him and his partner saying that the loan swap is on hold because according to the credit Agency that the bank uses to vet potential and existing clients, *my son actually is supposed to have dies in 2019!*.



The mind just boggles that this has happened.



mullokintyre said:


> He is having a lot of difficulty trying to get this rectified and have himself resurrected. I said he should wait till next easter.
> To compound matters, the credit agency is USA based, so  any communications with them is a long and tedious process, assuming they bother to respond.
> He  has since found out that there are a number of legal firms in the USA who specialise in fixing your credit ranking.
> It seems that credit agency screw ups for various reasons is not an uncommon occurrence.
> Mick



Ah huh, now I see. It's just another money drain for the lowly consumer to fix a problem that the consumer didn't create. Talk about come in (money) spinner.
Aside: I did smile at the Easter reference, clever.


----------



## mullokintyre (25 October 2021)

Back onto the topic about the Cashless society,
Now that the great unwashed have been unleashed from lockdowns, it seems there is a pent up demand to buy stuff.
Although there may be a push towards a cashless society, the RBA does not seem to see it happening soon.
From their latest weekly statement see HERE
we can see that there is a smidgin over  100 billion on issue, an increase of 328 Million over the previous Wednesday.
Those printing presses must have been running hot!.
Mick


----------



## againsthegrain (25 October 2021)

mullokintyre said:


> Back onto the topic about the Cashless society,
> Now that the great unwashed have been unleashed from lockdowns, it seems there is a pent up demand to buy stuff.
> Although there may be a push towards a cashless society, the RBA does not seem to see it happening soon.
> From their latest weekly statement see HERE
> ...




I saw some article a while ago, a conservative estimate was 10 years, so 15-20 for Aus standards id say is fair


----------



## frugal.rock (25 October 2021)

mullokintyre said:


> Agency that the bank uses to vet potential and existing clients, my son actually is supposed to have died in 2019!.
> He is having a lot of difficulty trying to get this rectified and have himself resurrected. I said he should wait till next easter.



I suggest he change his name to 
Lazarus Deadringer Mullokintyre... 😅


----------



## Humid (26 October 2021)

Just received a statement from Westpac that my 100k has just earnt $14:32 for the month in interest.......cashless society all right


----------



## Bourseboy (26 October 2021)

Hi Humid, 
I understand the frustration. MEBank is a little better, with some bother. Need to use the Everyday debit card at least 4 X each month to get Bonus Interest (and need to make last purchase a few days before month end for transaction to clear). I have minimal funds in this a/c and use it to make small purchases 4x/m (buy milk etc). Then get Bonus interest on the $103k in Saving a/c. Got $4.21 interest, plus $84 Bonus Interest. Have wondered whether I can make the 4 purchases in one day and still qualify for Bonus Interest. There is no restriction against this that I could find.
Have an ING a/c, but their conditions for Bonus Interest are a pain.
Cheers


----------



## againsthegrain (26 October 2021)

need those interest rates finally up


----------



## sptrawler (26 December 2021)

@Dona Ferentes posted this article in another thread, it pertains also to this one so I thought it worth posting here.









						COVID-19 is speeding up our shift towards a cashless future
					

The COVID-19 pandemic is accelerating Australia's shift towards buy now, pay later and other digital payment methods – at the expense of physical cash. But not everyone is happy about moving too quickly to a cashless society.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## sptrawler (9 August 2022)

A post by @Telamelo shows we are still on track. 









						Future of money: The RBA to trial a digital currency
					

The Reserve Bank of Australia will trial a digital currency as part of a collaborative research project into how it could be used by consumers and businesses.




					www.theage.com.au
				



The Reserve Bank of Australia will trial a digital currency in a “ring-fenced” pilot program as part of a collaborative research project into how it could be used by consumers and businesses that is set to last about a year.

Australia’s central bank has previously declared its interest in digital currency, which could be a digital equivalent of the dollar and rival privately minted cryptocurrencies, but the research project announced by the bank on Tuesday with the Digital Finance Cooperative Research Centre would focus on how such an asset could actually be used.


----------



## JohnDe (9 August 2022)

sptrawler said:


> I read somewhere, that Norway was heading toward a cashless system, after visiting there it looks as though they may be. IMO
> It is one of the only places I have been, where it was cheaper to purchase something on the card, than with cash. There was two prices on an article the wife was looking at, 49euro for card 69euro for cash, so I looked at other items in various shops, the same thing.
> It might have been specific to the areas I visited, but it was the first time I had seen it.




Purchased two coffees from a small coastal town, $12 for both. Paid with a $10 note and $2 coin. The owner said "cash, what an old fashioned idea."

Anyone out there that has cash but does not like holding it, send it to me and I will dispose of it for you.


----------



## redsmartie (9 August 2022)

JohnDe said:


> Purchased two coffees from a small coastal town, $12 for both. Paid with a $10 note and $2 coin. The owner said "cash, what an old fashioned idea."
> 
> Anyone out there that has cash but does not like holding it, send it to me and I will dispose of it for you.



That must be the tourist price! A few years ago, I would pull up in the work truck at a 7-11 servo and buy the $1 small self serve takeaway coffee, I laugh at the notion of a $6 takeaway. 😂


----------



## macca (9 August 2022)

JohnDe said:


> Purchased two coffees from a small coastal town, $12 for both. Paid with a $10 note and $2 coin. The owner said "cash, what an old fashioned idea."
> 
> Anyone out there that has cash but does not like holding it, send it to me and I will dispose of it for you.




Any cafe declaring 100% of its takings in the till will soon find out why "the old ways are the best"


----------



## divs4ever (9 August 2022)

sptrawler said:


> A post by @Telamelo shows we are still on track.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 says the Central Bank   who repeatedly gets inflation projections wrong 

 given the reliability of the electronic banking system and the internet  that light you see coming  is an out-of-control train-wreck  sliding your way


----------



## sptrawler (9 August 2022)

macca said:


> Any cafe declaring 100% of its takings in the till will soon find out why "the old ways are the best"



Any cafe, tradie, gardener, lawn mowing contractor, deli, drug dealer, backyard trader, or anyone else who deals in cash, even on gumtree.
The ATO and police will have a field day.
Just imagine how much money the employers will save, the ATO will be sending out your group certificate.🤣


----------



## divs4ever (9 August 2022)

ACTUALLY the police won't be so happy , no more $50 coffees for them  they will have to take their kick-backs in product or female comfort 

but then it is only a matter of time before the police are replaced by robots


----------



## moXJO (9 August 2022)

Unfriendly nations would just shut down our monetary system without cash.


----------



## sptrawler (9 August 2022)

moXJO said:


> Unfriendly nations would just shut down our monetary system without cash.



I don't think it will be only us that go digital and cashless may not mean all cash,  it may mean initially only getting rid of large denomination notes e.g $20, $50 and $100. 
Who knows, but I think all Governments will be working together on it.
Sweden was aiming to go cashless by March 2023, but has backed away from the commitment somewhat.









						Why Cash Still Matters in Sweden
					

Recognising the essentiality of cash to a safe and equal Swedish society, a law requiring banks to offer cash services, and ensure individuals do not have to travel far to access them, came into effect this January, and new measures are now coming online across the country.




					www.cashmatters.org
				










						The Nordic countries ready to say goodbye to cash
					

In our Contactless series across Europe, we have looked at a variety of countries, each at different stages of their digital payments journey. Whilst all have experienced big changes in consumer behaviour, much of it in response to the pandemic, the Nordic countries were already getting ready to...




					blog.ingenico.com


----------



## divs4ever (9 August 2022)

i would prefer to be paid in gold ( and silver )  anyway .

 we have already  seen what nations do to each other ( and they have bombers , tanks and nukes ) 

 what would they do to their own citizens which they consider to be docile serfs


----------



## againsthegrain (9 August 2022)

divs4ever said:


> i would prefer to be paid in gold ( and silver )  anyway .
> 
> we have already  seen what nations do to each other ( and they have bombers , tanks and nukes )
> 
> what would they do to their own citizens which they consider to be docile serfs



Thats what happens in China, piss off the wrong guy online and suddenly your social credit is bad. Can't fly on a plane,  piss off another guy maybe your digital money is suddenly evaporate


----------



## divs4ever (9 August 2022)

againsthegrain said:


> Thats what happens in China, piss off the wrong guy online and suddenly your social credit is bad. Can't fly on a plane,  piss off another guy maybe your digital money is suddenly evaporate



not just China  , am seeing some reports about the UK as well


----------



## JohnDe (9 August 2022)

redsmartie said:


> That must be the tourist price! A few years ago, I would pull up in the work truck at a 7-11 servo and buy the $1 small self serve takeaway coffee, I laugh at the notion of a $6 takeaway. 😂




I don’t buy coffee very often, but when I do I don’t mind paying for someone’s labour and material. $6 for a medium flat white on a Monday morning was reasonable for me, the shock of being paid cash was a laugh.


----------



## qldfrog (9 August 2022)

divs4ever said:


> not just China  , am seeing some reports about the UK as well



Or Canada . displease the government and your account is locked.
They aka the 1984 horror supposedly called our democracies can already lock your account but cash remains relatively free


----------



## sptrawler (9 August 2022)

qldfrog said:


> but cash remains relatively free



And is exactly why the Govt's want to remove it.


----------



## qldfrog (9 August 2022)

sptrawler said:


> And is exactly why the Govt's want to remove it.



You do not understand, it is only to prevent pédophiles, drug trafficking and tax evasion, 🤣😂


----------



## divs4ever (10 August 2022)

qldfrog said:


> You do not understand, it is only to prevent pédophiles, drug trafficking and tax evasion, 🤣😂



but , but but , that is mainly government activities  why would they do that to themselves  ( just the drug-tracking alone will hamstrung the CIA ) 

 so nah , that doesn't wash with me


----------



## bux2000 (10 August 2022)

qldfrog said:


> You do not understand, it is only to prevent pédophiles, drug trafficking and tax evasion, 🤣😂




 But Hey you forget ........if you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear   

bux


----------



## divs4ever (10 August 2022)

bux2000 said:


> But Hey you forget ........if you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear
> 
> bux



 LOL 
 so how is Bill Heffernan's bill going ???

 has  Franca Arena been beatified ( given a sainthood ) yet ??


----------



## wayneL (10 August 2022)

moXJO said:


> Unfriendly nations would just shut down our monetary system without cash.



We don't need an unfriendly nation for that.

Our own government seems pretty intent of destroying the power grid.


----------



## divs4ever (10 August 2022)

wayneL said:


> We don't need an unfriendly nation for that.
> 
> Our own government seems pretty intent of destroying the power grid.



but but ... doesn't the internet of things run on power/energy


----------



## mullokintyre (3 November 2022)

Nigeria's rulers have found that its Citizens did not embrace the CBDC as they had hoped.
From Investor man


> Last year, Nigeria launched its much-ballyhooed eNaira, Africa’s first central bank digital currency (CBDC).
> 
> Central bankers, academics, politicians, and an assortment of elites from over 100 countries hoping to launch their own CBDCs have closely followed the eNaira.
> 
> ...



It must be so frustrating when the citizens don't follow the required guidelines.
Mick


----------



## JohnDe (3 November 2022)

We are slowly witnessing physical cash going the way of early Credit Cards.

Remember the early days? When paying with a credit card it was frowned on, extra charges added, discount for paying with cash.

Today it is the opposite. Pull out cash and some people frown, do it in a checkout line and people behind groan. Can't use cash to pay for an airline ticket, many concerts and sport tickets are card or direct debit only, purchasing food and drinks at many large sporting events is card only, cafes and some boutique bars and bottle shops are card only.

When my kids were young, I taught them to always have cash as a backup, I'm glad that they still follow that advice. Cash may be on its last legs, but it is still handy.

Paying by electronic devices and card is very handy, it is also very easy to spend more than realised. At least with cash it is easy to see when your wallet is emptying.

I've always fancied myself as a bit of a rebel, I will continue to annoy the anti-cash brigade.


----------



## againsthegrain (3 November 2022)

JohnDe said:


> We are slowly witnessing physical cash going the way of early Credit Cards.
> 
> Remember the early days? When paying with a credit card it was frowned on, extra charges added, discount for paying with cash.
> 
> ...



I haven't come across anybody frowning yet,  but it happened to me twice where I would buy a higher value item say 500-600 give them cash and the teenager at the cash register would look panicked. Confirming with me its all there why would quickly put it in the till without counting it 😂.. quiet amazing


----------



## Belli (3 November 2022)

JohnDe said:


> We are slowly witnessing physical cash going the way of early Credit Cards.
> 
> Remember the early days? When paying with a credit card it was frowned on, extra charges added, discount for paying with cash.
> 
> ...




Also very easy to overspend with online purchases.

I've used cash for a long time when purchasing groceries, smaller value items and petrol.  Never encountered any issues.  For the larger expenses, I'm OK with using a debit card (haven't had a CC for many years as I hate debt.)

I have noticed recently there seems to be a greater number using cash for purchases and not necessarily those of my vintage.  It could be just serendipity with the timing or it may also be those who have decided there is a need to watch the expenses.  I really couldn't say which.

I have encountered situations where the cost is say $10.90 and you hand over $11.90 to get a $1 in change but the sprout behind the counter hands you back the 90c and then another 10c from the till.


----------



## Dona Ferentes (3 November 2022)

Got a coffee really easily yesterday in busy busy Barangaroo.
"_Folks, sorry, Westpac and its POS fandangle is proving recalcitrant_! " (or words to that effect)
So I stepped up and was served without delay. Exact amount in coin.


----------



## sptrawler (3 November 2022)

As I posted several years ago, in Norway there is a large surcharge for using cash, I'm not convinced Australians would accept that happening here.


----------



## JohnDe (3 November 2022)

sptrawler said:


> As I posted several years ago, in Norway there is a large surcharge for using cash, I'm not convinced Australians would accept that happening here.




I can see that happening here, soon.

Yesterday I was listening to an ABC program about this very subject, they were saying that it costs money and time to take cash to the bank, plus the added risk of being rob requires extra security measures. My business insurance charges an extra premium for holding cash.


----------



## sptrawler (3 November 2022)

JohnDe said:


> I can see that happening here, soon.
> 
> Yesterday I was listening to an ABC program about this very subject, they were saying that it costs money and time to take cash to the bank, plus the added risk of being rob requires extra security measures. My business insurance charges an extra premium for holding cash.



I agree with you, I said Im not sure people in Aus would accept it, but if you get the media and incentives right, the general public swallow anything. Lol


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## Belli (3 November 2022)

JohnDe said:


> I can see that happening here, soon.
> 
> Yesterday I was listening to an ABC program about this very subject, they were saying that it costs money and time to take cash to the bank, plus the added risk of being rob requires extra security measures. My business insurance charges an extra premium for holding cash.




I know of some who have a separate debit card from a financial institution which isn't their main bank.  They budget by transferring funds from their pay to that card and use it only for the groceries, etc in order to not go berserk with their spending.  It seems to work for them.

One matter I was discussing with one of my children.  They are with a bank which has a push notification to get into their account or use the funds.  The question was if I lose the phone, how the heck do I get into my account to put a stopper on as I cannot even get into it as it requires the push notification and the phone has gone?  Yeah, circular question.  I didn't have an answer to be honest.  I was going to suggest ring the bank but stopped short of saying that for the obvious reason of no phone.

Personally, I don't have any finance, social or Government apps on my phone.  I rarely use it and most of the time I don't have the WiFi activated anyway.  I dislike being expected to be continually connected to the world.  Screw that.


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## wayneL (3 November 2022)

Mini rant:

Any country/society considering relying on the power grid entirely (aka CBDC) for their day to day commerce, and not having some form of physical medium of exchange, would have to be absolutely bonkers loco insane. Especially this country.

There are two factors for this. The First factor, as we have discussed on this forum, the powergrid is becoming unstable and is likely to become increasingly so over the coming years.

The second-hand alarming factor is the spectre of World war 3, any belligerent that wanted to completely disable this country would only need to do the whole electromagnetic pulse strategy to completely disable the whole electronic infrastructure.

Such a belligerent would probably wouldn't really have to do much else but sit back and watch the pandemonium.

I will keep purchasing things with cash thank you very much and I absolutely will not deal with any company that does not accept it.

Use.
It.
Or.
Lose 
It.


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## againsthegrain (3 November 2022)

wayneL said:


> Mini rant:
> 
> Any country/society considering relying on the power grid entirely (aka CBDC) for their day to day commerce, and not having some form of physical medium of exchange, would have to be absolutely bonkers loco insane. Especially this country.
> 
> ...



There is also the factor of keeping money hidden from your spouse... a insurance policy


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## Craton (3 November 2022)

As an ex-tradie, GST was also intended to tax cash transactions hence I can see the push for "cashless" aka traceable transactions.

Yes, I use the convenience of cards, internet banking, PayPal et al *however*, I never travel without cash and never will.
Cashless for the metrocentric is all well and good but so many times on my travels in OZ, especially remote regional areas, buying fuel etc at a servo where the EFTPOS/internet is down means cash is king.

Hell, even with our major businesses this can happen and no training on  how  or capacity to handle cash transactions. Makes me wonder how many of our younger generation even know what a receipt book looks like, let alone how to fill out a receipt.

One of my favourite idioms, "How much if I pay in cash right now?" as the C-notes unfold...


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## Craton (3 November 2022)

againsthegrain said:


> There is also the factor of keeping money hidden from your spouse... a insurance policy



Not as silly as it sounds. I've always operated with you have yours I have mine and we share the bills/expenses etc evenly. Shared saving towards trips, rainy day and the like.
Doesn't stop either of us from using our own personal stash to splurge on or treat the other.


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## Belli (3 November 2022)

Craton said:


> Not as silly as it sounds. I've always operated with you have yours I have mine and we share the bills/expenses etc evenly. Shared saving towards trips, rainy day and the like.
> Doesn't stop either of us from using our own personal stash to splurge on or treat the other.




Cool.  We did similar.  Individual accounts but a joint one for our expenses e.g. mortgage, rates, etc.

And as morbid as it may seem, it was a valid approach when my wife died.  Joint account tied up for a bit while I got things sorted but in the meantime I still had my own income and access to a bank account in my name so it wasn't a big an issue if there was only a joint account.


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## Craton (3 November 2022)

Similar experience when my dearly departed left her earth bound coil. Fortunately though, we had a great relationship and she made sure most of her affairs were in order, down to her request that her largish super be split evenly between me and the kids.
Hell, my kids could have it all if it meant that she'd still be with me... 

She was a fellow director in our company so that was a nice lesson in stamp duty and tax law. When her shareholding was "sold" to me, wasn't sold of course but the transfer was considered as such, the lawyers managed to reduce the five figure amount of stamp duty/tax substantially but was still out-of-pocket for a non-existent sale. Talk about a death tax!

On topic.
I've quite a few retail customers both young and old that refuse to go "online" for their banking/bill paying. They either fear it, have been hacked and lost money and/or distrust the system to keep their money safe, thus, they'd rather come in and pay cash.

One thing that is becoming a relic is the much maligned cheque. As soon as the banks started charging for replacement cheque books, I stopped using cheques as a cash transaction. Yup, gone are the days of "cashing a cheque".

Personally I do like the tactile feel of cold, hard cash plus, it is a great tool for teaching kids the "worth" of an object or one's labour.


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## Belli (4 November 2022)

Craton said:


> I stopped using cheques




March 2012 was the last time I used a cheque.  Goodness knows why I still have the cheque book.  MY OCD kicking in I guess.

The nostalgia.



Craton said:


> She was a fellow director in our company so that was a nice lesson in stamp duty and tax law. When her shareholding was "sold" to me, wasn't sold of course but the transfer was considered as such, the lawyers managed to reduce the five figure amount of stamp duty/tax substantially but was still out-of-pocket for a non-existent sale. Talk about a death tax!




Sorry to learn of your issues with the ATO, especially given the circumstances.  The law and the bureaucracy simply don't give a stuff about personal issues really.  Approximately 95% of the law is about who owes what to who and who owns what.

Pretty seamless for me with only a need to change the details of the Directors of the Corporate Trustee of the SMSF and obtain a variation of the Trust Deed.


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## Craton (4 November 2022)

Cheers Belli. Our old cheque books, especially the unused ones may be of  worth to collectors one day.

Yeah that "sale" was just another kick in the guts at a most stressful time. Cop it on the chin, deal with it, move on but never forget the lessons learned.

GTK it was a tad easier for you and thanks for sharing too.


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## mullokintyre (5 November 2022)

India has joined the ranks of those moving to a digital currency.
probably in a better way than Nigeria where it is  having a limited trial first.
From BQ Prime



> The Reserve Bank of India (RBI) recently said in a statement that India’s first pilot project of the ‘Digital Rupee’ in the ‘Wholesale segment’ would be starting on November 1, 2022. The pilot project for the ‘Digital Rupee’ for the ‘Retail segment’ is set to start in a few months in select locations in a closed group of customers and sellers. As of now, 9 banks have are decided for participating.
> The pilot project for the ‘Digital Rupee’ for the ‘Retail segment’ is set to start in a few months in select locations in a closed group of customers and sellers. As of now, 9 banks have are decided for participating in RBI’s Digital Rupee Wholesale pilot; HDFC Bank, Kotak Mahindra Bank, Yes Bank, IDFC First Bank, HSBC, Union Bank of India, ICICI Bank, HSBC and SBI. What is this ‘Digital Rupee’ th
> As per the official definition, RBI’s Digital Rupee is a type of ‘Central Bank Digital Currency’ or CBDC. In simpler terms, the Digital Rupee is a digital form of the fiat currency of the Rupee issued by the RBI (as Central Bank of the country). Digital Rupee or digital money in general is an electronic form of money that can be used for digital contactless transactions, which are especially usefu




Mick


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## Belli (5 January 2023)

I don't horde to this extent but I feel all warm and fuzzy for being one with my people.  Honestly, I know it is considered convenient but to use an electronic method to pay for a simple cup of coffee seems odd to me.  Just more transactions to verify on a statement or maybe people don't do that.

However, I am single so the amount of cash I hold for paying for day-to-day goods such as groceries isn't large.









						Tahera says her clients hoard cash and hide it from their spouses in the event of a divorce
					

There are more than 2 billion banknotes, worth more than $100 billion, being hoarded by Australians – that's about $4,000 per person. But as we use less cash to transact, does it still have a future?




					www.abc.net.au


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## mullokintyre (5 January 2023)

In the past  two months, I have been involved in two instances where  I was required to pay cash for something. The first instance was when  during the recent floods,  the town had no power for about 30 hours, so there were no FT transactions available. The second was when we had power, but the EFTPOS system went offline for a few hours. 
It is the reason I always carry some pineapples, just in case.
Mick


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