# Liberals Sending WA Broke



## IFocus (25 April 2011)

Liberals are the better money managers......right

How come WA is running up a $20 billion dept when Labor left the treasury in good shape.

Look away now if you are a Liberal supporter 



> Forward estimates contained in December's mid-year economic review show WA's public sector debt rising to* $19.89 billion in 2013-14*, from $14 billion this year and $9.89 billion in 2009-10.




Liberals manage big projects better......... right

"Big projects could leave $2b black hole"





> Premier Colin Barnett is facing a Budget black hole of at least $2 billion as his Government deals with rising costs on major projects




http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/wa/9252675/big-projects-could-leave-2b-black-hole/


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## sptrawler (25 April 2011)

IFocus said:


> Liberals are the better money managers......right
> 
> How come WA is running up a $20 billion dept when Labor left the treasury in good shape.
> 
> ...




Actually after reading the article it isn't as bad as I first thought. Most of the expected costs sound as though they are for infrastructure that is required. Even moving footy to an easily accessable area that at the moment is waste land has merit. If they don't, imagine what the congestion in Subi will be like in 10 - 20 years trying to move 100,000 people in and out. 
Gas pipline to Albany,. further desal plant and power stations are all infrastructure that will be required. 
Also moving State Parliament and selling off the land makes sense it is badly located between the city and commercial hub of West Perth and has poor access.
If you don't put this sort of infrastructure in when you are in a boom ,you will never get it in when we are in a downturn.
The key is to spend the money wisely, on infrastructure that has lasting value with minimum requirement to revisit it again.


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## sptrawler (25 April 2011)

Not wanting to harp on, but the analogy would be when the last labor government was in power. The liberal plan was to put the Mandurah train line down through Canning Vale and join the freeway near Atwell. Labor decided it would be nicer to put it down the freeway through leeming, Bullcreek, South Perth, this definately looks nicer but cost a huge amount more. 
But this has taken up the space for the freeway to expand, now that is what I call wasting taxpayers money.
When they decided to do this they should have either dug a trench and sunk it or put it overhead or better still gone the way liberals wanted to. Then at a later date run the line through South Perth etc in a suitable manner, instead of rushing headlong into a stupid decision to bignote themselves and try to buy votes. Just like our other discussion the  N.B.N 
As I said, any idiot can spend money, it is spending it wisely that is the trick. It was stupid decisions like this one that has sent W.A Labor into the wilderness and they will soon have friends out there when the Federal Labor join them LOL.


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## drsmith (25 April 2011)

The first thing Colin Barnett should is ditch the Perth waterfront project and keep Riverside Drive open.

The previous Labor government's plan was worse with a skyscraper next to the Bell Tower shaped like a big dick. As a side note, Dicky Court's Bell Tower was in the shadow of that proposed skyscraper on the render.


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## todster (25 April 2011)

sptrawler said:


> Not wanting to harp on, but the analogy would be when the last labor government was in power. The liberal plan was to put the Mandurah train line down through Canning Vale and join the freeway near Atwell. Labor decided it would be nicer to put it down the freeway through leeming, Bullcreek, South Perth, this definately looks nicer but cost a huge amount more.
> But this has taken up the space for the freeway to expand, now that is what I call wasting taxpayers money.
> When they decided to do this they should have either dug a trench and sunk it or put it overhead or better still gone the way liberals wanted to. Then at a later date run the line through South Perth etc in a suitable manner, instead of rushing headlong into a stupid decision to bignote themselves and try to buy votes. Just like our other discussion the  N.B.N
> As I said, any idiot can spend money, it is spending it wisely that is the trick. It was stupid decisions like this one that has sent W.A Labor into the wilderness and they will soon have friends out there when the Federal Labor join them LOL.




Would have thought having train access to a university and two hospitals a pretty good idea myself.


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## sptrawler (25 April 2011)

Come on drsmith
Dickies belltower only cost $5m, which when you consider the iconic heritage tourism drawcards W.A has is an absolute bargain. 
What else do we have? Barracks Arch, London Court, The Round House, come on chip in I'm running out.
The Bells of St Mary's are the only thing older than Dickies Dad.
A bargain at twice the price, which reminds me I must go and climb them LOL


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## sptrawler (25 April 2011)

todster said:


> Would have thought having train access to a university and two hospitals a pretty good idea myself.




Wasn't saying it shouldn't be done, just timing and excecution was lacking.


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## drsmith (25 April 2011)

My dig was actually at Labor's plan, not Dicky Court's Bell Tower.

Dicky though was another politician that was not in my favour. He was also going to bugger up Riverside Drive.



sptrawler said:


> A bargain at twice the price, which reminds me I must go and climb them LOL



You should get a nice view of the aformentioned road from up there.

I would suggest going at a peak period and taking a politician or two with you. They might then realise what cutting it between Barrack Street and William Street would do to Perth's traffic.


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## drsmith (25 April 2011)

IFocus said:


> Liberals are the better money managers......right



At least they have not tried to introduce a form of death duties.


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## todster (25 April 2011)

sptrawler said:


> Wasn't saying it shouldn't be done, just timing and excecution was lacking.




Yes you did


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## todster (25 April 2011)

sptrawler said:


> Not wanting to harp on, but the analogy would be when the last labor government was in power. The liberal plan was to put the Mandurah train line down through Canning Vale and join the freeway near Atwell. Labor decided it would be nicer to put it down the freeway through leeming, Bullcreek, South Perth, this definately looks nicer but cost a huge amount more.
> But this has taken up the space for the freeway to expand, now that is what I call wasting taxpayers money.
> When they decided to do this they should have either dug a trench and sunk it or put it overhead or better still gone the way liberals wanted to. Then at a later date run the line through South Perth etc in a suitable manner, instead of rushing headlong into a stupid decision to bignote themselves and try to buy votes. Just like our other discussion the  N.B.N
> As I said, any idiot can spend money, it is spending it wisely that is the trick. It was stupid decisions like this one that has sent W.A Labor into the wilderness and they will soon have friends out there when the Federal Labor join them LOL.




Wrong again they used the bus lanes


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## sptrawler (25 April 2011)

Still took up space that can't be used by cars or buses, duh.


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## sptrawler (25 April 2011)

todster said:


> Yes you did




Read the second paragraph(thats the second group of sentences). "then at a later date run the line through  South Perth in a suitable manner".
Your obviously a young bloke.


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## drsmith (25 April 2011)

The Kwinana Freeway and CBD tunnel option for the Mandurah railway struck me as most practical as it was a direct route into the middle of the CBD.

I worst comes to the worst, the Kwinana Freeway could be widened to 8 lanes (4 each way) by using the emergency stopping lanes where widening is not possible and reducing the speed limit to 80 km/hr. This is how the Northbridge Tunnel will be widened to 6 lanes (3 each way).

As a general comment, Perth seems to be starting to choke under the weight of its growing public and private transport demands.


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## sptrawler (25 April 2011)

drsmith said:


> The Kwinana Freeway and CBD tunnel option for the Mandurah railway struck me as most practical as it was a direct route into the middle of the CBD.
> 
> I worst comes to the worst, the Kwinana Freeway could be widened to 8 lanes (4 each way) by using the emergency stopping lanes where widening is not possible and reducing the speed limit to 80 km/hr. This is how the Northbridge Tunnel will be widened to 6 lanes (3 each way).
> 
> As a general comment, Perth seems to be starting to choke under the weight of its growing public and private transport demands.




Most unusual, I disagree drsmith, If they had used the original route the infrastructure was there, this would have delivered a train line to Mandurah 1 year quicker and at a fraction of the cost. Also connecting a high jobless area(Mandurah,Kwinana) with a work intensive area(Canning Vale,Cannington,Welshpool, Kewdale,Burswood).
Then the line from the City to Gateway could have been put in in stages by tunnelling to Canning Bridge then to Mt Henry, Bull Creek, South Street etc at their leisure. Also providing 6 extra lanes above the rail line.
The minor inconvenience of 15min extra travel time for a short period of time. Would have been far outweighed by the long term advantages.


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## todster (25 April 2011)

sptrawler said:


> Still took up space that can't be used by cars or buses, duh.




Um it replaced the buses.


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## todster (25 April 2011)

sptrawler said:


> Read the second paragraph(thats the second group of sentences). "then at a later date run the line through  South Perth in a suitable manner".
> Your obviously a young bloke.




Yeah overhead or underground would be a cheap option
Your obviously an old bloke.


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## drsmith (25 April 2011)

sptrawler said:


> Also connecting a high jobless area(Mandurah,Kwinana) with a work intensive area(Canning Vale,Cannington,Welshpool, Kewdale,Burswood).



That can still be done.

Other than that, I'm not up with the detail between the two options to comment further on the remainder of your post.


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## sptrawler (25 April 2011)

Jeez todster go back and read the second entry, we were saying about spending money wisely, Son you have one mouth and two ears use them acordingly.


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## sptrawler (25 April 2011)

drsmith said:


> That can still be done.
> 
> Other than that, I'm not up with the detail between the two options to comment further on the remainder of your post.




Like I said to todster,drsmith. This was about spending money wisely on infrastructure so you didn't have to revisit at a later date.
The line through Canning Vale can still be put in, but the line down the centre of the freeway will have to be revisited at a later date. It will cause a huge disruption and cost megabucks more to fix it later. But I suppose thats our kids problem not ours, its still a nice ride at the moment.


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## drsmith (25 April 2011)

sptrawler said:


> This was about spending money wisely on infrastructure so you didn't have to revisit at a later date.



With regard to spending money wisely, I wonder how much Roe Highway stage 8 is going to cost even before the first shovel hits the dirt.

The image below is the project development team and between them, the project website is one of the worst I have ever visited.

http://www.southmetroconnect.com.au/Design/The+Design+Development+Process/default.aspx

There's a lot of money going down the funnel to pay that lot.


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## sptrawler (25 April 2011)

In response to that drsmith, I use the Roe hwy to go too and from work, check it out on a friday night. Normaly from my house to work in Kwinana 20-25min. On fri it takes 30min to get from the Roe onto the freeway all up takes 1hr.
The Roe has to go through to freo area to get the trucks out to midland. The north quay is at capacity and the container terminal has to be moved to kwinana. The Roe has to move on just think about it. Life doesn't stay at a standstill, more population, more containers have to get off the wharfs. More people have to use the freeway. It all goes back to our original debate.
All governments have to spend money to put in infrastructure. It just appears the liberals seem to have a long term view and the labor have a short term view. I must admit labor is warm and fuzzy but that wears thin really quickly.


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## todster (26 April 2011)

sptrawler said:


> Jeez todster go back and read the second entry, we were saying about spending money wisely, Son you have one mouth and two ears use them acordingly.




Well  i reckon they did spend the money wisely on quality infrastructure.
Pretty sure i know what you have two of


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## sptrawler (26 April 2011)

Time will tell todster and I don't think we will have to wait long before we know who has 2.  hahaha. Lets wait and see.


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## drsmith (26 April 2011)

sptrawler said:


> In response to that drsmith, I use the Roe hwy to go too and from work, check it out on a friday night. Normaly from my house to work in Kwinana 20-25min. On fri it takes 30min to get from the Roe onto the freeway all up takes 1hr.
> The Roe has to go through to freo area to get the trucks out to midland. The north quay is at capacity and the container terminal has to be moved to kwinana. The Roe has to move on just think about it. Life doesn't stay at a standstill, more population, more containers have to get off the wharfs. More people have to use the freeway. It all goes back to our original debate.
> All governments have to spend money to put in infrastructure. It just appears the liberals seem to have a long term view and the labor have a short term view. I must admit labor is warm and fuzzy but that wears thin really quickly.



I'm not against Roe 8 as such, but the process of getting there strikes me as one where there is a lot of bureaucratic expense.

In my view, the previous government were absolutely mad to sell lend set aside for the Fremantle Eastern Bypass. The only thing that stopped them selling the land set aside for Roe 8 was a threat by the Federal Government to withdraw funding for Roe 7 (South Street to Kwinana Freeway). The South Australian government did this sort of thing on a much grander scale in Adelaide with the result being a north/south corridor (Main South Road) that is little more than an urban goat track in comparison to the Kwinana/Mitchell Freeways and a very expensive problem to fix.

I suspect Roe 8 will be delayed. It's currently unfunded and politically sensitive in relation to the wetlands it would pass through. An expense blowout with other capital works will give the government an excuse to put it on the back burner.


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## todster (26 April 2011)

sptrawler said:


> In response to that drsmith, I use the Roe hwy to go too and from work, check it out on a friday night. Normaly from my house to work in Kwinana 20-25min. On fri it takes 30min to get from the Roe onto the freeway all up takes 1hr.
> The Roe has to go through to freo area to get the trucks out to midland. The north quay is at capacity and the container terminal has to be moved to kwinana. The Roe has to move on just think about it. Life doesn't stay at a standstill, more population, more containers have to get off the wharfs. More people have to use the freeway. It all goes back to our original debate.
> All governments have to spend money to put in infrastructure. It just appears the liberals seem to have a long term view and the labor have a short term view. I must admit labor is warm and fuzzy but that wears thin really quickly.




Sheds a bit of light on why your so bitter about the train going through South Perth


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## sptrawler (26 April 2011)

drsmith said:


> I'm not against Roe 8 as such, but the process of getting there strikes me as one where there is a lot of bureaucratic expense.
> 
> In my view, the previous government were absolutely mad to sell lend set aside for the Fremantle Eastern Bypass. The only thing that stopped them selling the land set aside for Roe 8 was a threat by the Federal Government to withdraw funding for Roe 7 (South Street to Kwinana Freeway). The South Australian government did this sort of thing on a much grander scale in Adelaide with the result being a north/south corridor (Main South Road) that is little more than an urban goat track in comparison to the Kwinana/Mitchell Freeways and a very expensive problem to fix.
> 
> I suspect Roe 8 will be delayed. It's currently unfunded and politically sensitive in relation to the wetlands it would pass through. An expense blowout with other capital works will give the government an excuse to put it on the back burner.




All major cities in the world have a ring road. It is essential in diverting traffic from the centre of the city. The Read, Tonkin,Roe are the ring road for Perth. The problem is getting the connection, labor tried to get votes and money by selling off properties previously bought. What a bloody stupid thing to do when you are trying to improve infrastructure and the properties had already been bought. 
They used the excuse of the wetlands between bibra lake and north lake.
Well the highway could have been bridged over and lets get real bibra lake and north lake are dry.
Like I keep saying we have to deal with real problems not keep saying they aren't occuring.


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## sptrawler (26 April 2011)

todster said:


> Sheds a bit of light on why your so bitter about the train going through South Perth




Jeez son, you do need to grow up, the train has nothing to do with my trip to work I work shift work, trains don't run 24/7 and don't run to where the real work happens. 
JUST GO BACK THROUGH THE POSTS, SLOWLY, AND ABSORB THE INFORMATION. If after that you can sit with someone and run through your responses and then they become relevant, post them. Otherwise put up something that has relevance.
If you can't do that put up for preselection for the W.A Labor party. I think you have a good chance. Obviously you are in complete denial of relevant facts and would prefer to work in a world of fantasy and fiction. Best of luck mate its a hard road and then you come out like me.
By the way I'm a sparky, nothing special.


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## sptrawler (26 April 2011)

Well todster, the dockers game is over, so back to you. I will watch your posts with interest mate, I see a lot of myself 20years ago in your posts. 
It will be interesting, best of luck and hold the faith as long as you can. :


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## todster (26 April 2011)

sptrawler said:


> Jeez son, you do need to grow up, the train has nothing to do with my trip to work I work shift work, trains don't run 24/7 and don't run to where the real work happens.
> JUST GO BACK THROUGH THE POSTS, SLOWLY, AND ABSORB THE INFORMATION. If after that you can sit with someone and run through your responses and then they become relevant, post them. Otherwise put up something that has relevance.
> If you can't do that put up for preselection for the W.A Labor party. I think you have a good chance. Obviously you are in complete denial of relevant facts and would prefer to work in a world of fantasy and fiction. Best of luck mate its a hard road and then you come out like me.
> By the way I'm a sparky, nothing special.




Many don't use the train solely for work,some catch it to see the Dockers play.
Sparky,not in the ETU but like the benefits?
3 wires 4years lol


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## sptrawler (26 April 2011)

todster said:


> Many don't use the train solely for work,some catch it to see the Dockers play.
> Sparky,not in the ETU but like the benefits?
> 3 wires 4years lol




I was in the ETU when Wally Woods was a boy and the elec licence cost 50c/annum. LOL


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## todster (26 April 2011)

sptrawler said:


> I was in the ETU when Wally Woods was a boy and the elec licence cost 50c/annum. LOL




And your doing shift work?


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## sptrawler (26 April 2011)

Ah grasshopper, not neccasarilly work as sparky.


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## saiter (26 April 2011)

IFocus said:


> Liberals are the better money managers......right
> 
> How come WA is running up a $20 billion dept when Labor left the treasury in good shape.
> 
> ...




Am I in a dream world?

All this time the LNP promised me that they were a fiscally responsible party, continuously referring to the Howard-Costello era of superior economic management, whilst they WA LNP drove the state's balance sheet deep into the red!  If we can't trust politicians, who can we trust? :


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## Smurf1976 (26 April 2011)

Victoria almost went broke under Labor in the late 1980's - very early 90's. Tasmania did the same thing at the same time under the only majority Liberal government it had ever had. Meanwhile the State Bank brought financial chaos to SA.

Along came the 1990's and Victorians elected a Liberal government to fix the finances. Meanwhile Tasmanians elected a Labor-Green government to fix that state's finances.

Then the Liberals got back in in Tas and the state's economy went belly up again. Then Labor got back in and turned things around. Now, over 12 years later, the state seems to be going broke again, this time under a Labor-Green government with the Liberals not even remotely involved. Meanwhile in Victoria, the books may look OK but there's more than enough evidence of run down infrastructure and the like.

Based on the experiences of Vic, Tas and SA I'd argue that who is in power is far less relevant than when they are in power. Governments either go broke or batten down the hatches pretty much all at once, regardless of whether they are Liberal, Labor, Green, Democrat, Republican, Conservative or whatever else you like to call them.

Look on the positive side though. If the WA government is actually investing in worthwhile infrastructure then that's more than most of the other states are doing. Argue all you like about whether it should be 6 lanes or 8, at least you're building something.

As for the ETU that someone mentioned... I've been there and been a member of that (not anymore). Yes, it's pretty much a closed shop. But to be perfectly honest, it's by no means the worst such example in any trade or profession. The ETU is just one in a very long list (and for anyone who thinks it's really so lucrative, go become an electrician and join the union - then you'll find out what the downsides are...).


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## Julia (26 April 2011)

saiter said:


> ( If we can't trust politicians, who can we trust? :



I can't believe you would say this, saiter.

Politicians over eons have proved themselves to be amongst the least able to be trusted of any occupation.  They are primarily motivated by self interest, and the interests of the nation come a very poor second.
Add to this that they are largely incompetent and I can see absolutely no reason to imagine they will ever be capable of acting in any sort of trustworthy way.


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## IFocus (26 April 2011)

sptrawler said:


> I was in the ETU when Wally Woods was a boy and the elec licence cost 50c/annum. LOL




I didn't see you  any meetings comrade..........I was a member joining at age 15 Smith was still secretary


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## sptrawler (26 April 2011)

Smurf1976 said:


> Victoria almost went broke under Labor in the late 1980's - very early 90's. Tasmania did the same thing at the same time under the only majority Liberal government it had ever had. Meanwhile the State Bank brought financial chaos to SA.
> 
> Along came the 1990's and Victorians elected a Liberal government to fix the finances. Meanwhile Tasmanians elected a Labor-Green government to fix that state's finances.
> 
> ...




We are obviously soul mates, been there done that.


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## IFocus (26 April 2011)

drsmith said:


> The first thing Colin Barnett should is ditch the Perth waterfront project and keep Riverside Drive open.




Disagree this is worth going into $20 bil dept better than say....a NBN 

Interesting no one has really bought into the argument seriously.

Whats $20 bil with cost blow outs

How much has the cost of rates, electricity and water risen under Barnett.......... 40% plus and still going, where is all the shrill screams of injustice that we hear from the other threads..........

BTW the train line that Alana delivered against stiff opposition from the coalition has the highest passenger usage of any of the Perth lines.


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## todster (26 April 2011)

Smurf1976 said:


> Victoria almost went broke under Labor in the late 1980's - very early 90's. Tasmania did the same thing at the same time under the only majority Liberal government it had ever had. Meanwhile the State Bank brought financial chaos to SA.
> 
> Along came the 1990's and Victorians elected a Liberal government to fix the finances. Meanwhile Tasmanians elected a Labor-Green government to fix that state's finances.
> 
> ...




Downsides?Cant remember many big jobs in WA where the ETU has not got a better deal for sparkies.
Gorgon on Barrow is a union job 26days on 9days off labourers wil earn more than 200k per year.
Not a bad earner!


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## noco (26 April 2011)

Julia said:


> I can't believe you would say this, saiter.
> 
> Politicians over eons have proved themselves to be amongst the least able to be trusted of any occupation.  They are primarily motivated by self interest, and the interests of the nation come a very poor second.
> Add to this that they are largely incompetent and I can see absolutely no reason to imagine they will ever be capable of acting in any sort of trustworthy way.




Julia, I don't know why you would tar them all with the same brush. Just because you get one or two rotten apples in the basket, doesn't mean to say they are all the same.

I've known some good ones in the past and our current federal member in Townsville is of very fine character, is popular and doing a damn fine job.


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## sptrawler (26 April 2011)

IFocus said:


> Disagree this is worth going into $20 bil dept better than say....a NBN
> 
> Interesting no one has really bought into the argument seriously.
> 
> ...




Well Ifocus, not wanting to get into a mine is bigger than yours, over union membership.
We can focus on the Barnett price increases. When the S.E.C, or Western Power was desegregated by labor, guess who carried all the debt, you guessed it Verve.
Like when Alinta was floated guess who carried the debt for the pipeline. You guessed it, Western power..
So from all this we can ascertain that the price increase for electricity had to eventually happen as the company carrying it got smaller and smaller. Therefore it got harder to hide.
As for the the Alana train, read through the earlier posts, it could have been delivered in a more expeditious way. Then they may have still been in Government.


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## IFocus (26 April 2011)

sptrawler said:


> Well Ifocus, not wanting to get into a mine is bigger than yours, over union membership.
> We can focus on the Barnett price increases. When the S.E.C, or Western Power was desegregated by labor, guess who carried all the debt, you guessed it Verve.
> Like when Alinta was floated guess who carried the debt for the pipeline. You guessed it, Western power..
> So from all this we can ascertain that the price increase for electricity had to eventually happen as the company carrying it got smaller and smaller. Therefore it got harder to hide.
> As for the the Alana train, read through the earlier posts, it could have been delivered in a more expeditious way. Then they may have still been in Government.




To be fair both sides screwed the states utilities often taking the profits into revenue at the cost of aging infrastructure neither side is is with out sin but Barnett is the current state head honcho and has to shoulder the responsibility especially since he bought off the nationals with the royalties for regions cash splash again quietly forgotten. 

We will have to agree to disagree re the rail line, for me the narrows was always the best option taking the long term view but the the main issue was the risk of going underground in the CBD which is where Labor actually grew some balls and pulled it off.

Had this gone pear shape then it would have been a disaster.

$20 bil is still way off the dial and new territory for the state treasury also fascinating Barnett's response to the projection.


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## sptrawler (26 April 2011)

IFocus said:


> To be fair both sides screwed the states utilities often taking the profits into revenue at the cost of aging infrastructure neither side is is with out sin but Barnett is the current state head honcho and has to shoulder the responsibility especially since he bought off the nationals with the royalties for regions cash splash again quietly forgotten.
> 
> We will have to agree to disagree re the rail line, for me the narrows was always the best option taking the long term view but the the main issue was the risk of going underground in the CBD which is where Labor actually grew some balls and pulled it off.
> 
> Had this gone pear shape then it would have been a disaster.




Well mate we seem to be on the same song sheet. Fortunatelly I was lucky enough to know a great union guy(who unfortunatley passed away recently) and he always said Barnett was the only politician he had met that had a brain. I respected his advice then and nobody has proven him wrong yet.


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## Smurf1976 (26 April 2011)

todster said:


> Downsides?Cant remember many big jobs in WA where the ETU has not got a better deal for sparkies.
> Gorgon on Barrow is a union job 26days on 9days off labourers wil earn more than 200k per year.
> Not a bad earner!



I meant downsides to the electrical trade in general, not specifically referring to the ETU. Yes there's some money in it compared to some other jobs, but there's reasons for that.

Plenty will say it's easy and over paid compared to this, that or some other job. Mostly it's the anti-union types who make such comments. That's true maybe if comparing to someone who changes light switches all day, but absolutely not true if comparing to someone who fault finds industrial control systems etc. 

Anyway, getting a bit off topic here...


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## sptrawler (26 April 2011)

todster said:


> Downsides?Cant remember many big jobs in WA where the ETU has not got a better deal for sparkies.
> Gorgon on Barrow is a union job 26days on 9days off labourers wil earn more than 200k per year.
> Not a bad earner!




Well son do the figures, 26+9 =35 day cycle, approx 10 cycles /yr. 26x12hr= 260hr/cycle then times 10 cycles= 2600hr/yr. Then divide $200,000/2600hr thats $76/hr.
Thats not that great for approx 4weeks on one week off, not much of a life after you take out tax.
Might be good for a single guy, but doesn't cut it for a family.
Also don't forget it is a 50hr week not a 37hr week i.e you would be doing 13hrs overtime so it probably only equates to $50/hr. If you consider you are working weekends as well it really does make you wonder if you are being blinded by the $$$$$$$$$$$$$.


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## todster (26 April 2011)

sptrawler said:


> Well mate we seem to be on the same song sheet. Fortunatelly I was lucky enough to know a great union guy(who unfortunatley passed away recently) and he always said Barnett was the only politician he had met that had a brain. I respected his advice then and nobody has proven him wrong yet.




Ok as you see me as semi retarded can you run me through the Barnett the brains plan to run water through a canal from the Kimberley region to Perth.
PS small words only.


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## todster (27 April 2011)

sptrawler said:


> Well son do the figures, 26+9 =35 day cycle, approx 10 cycles /yr. 26x12hr= 260hr/cycle then times 10 cycles= 2600hr/yr. Then divide $200,000/2600hr thats $76/hr.
> Thats not that great for approx 4weeks on one week off, not much of a life after you take out tax.
> Might be good for a single guy, but doesn't cut it for a family.
> Also don't forget it is a 50hr week not a 37hr week i.e you would be doing 13hrs overtime so it probably only equates to $50/hr. If you consider you are working weekends as well it really does make you wonder if you are being blinded by the $$$$$$$$$$$$$.



 Annual leave all RDO payed at completion(1afortnight)and all sickies payed.PIP.Redundancy 24 hour insurance read it again thats for a labourer


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## sptrawler (27 April 2011)

todster said:


> Ok as you see me as semi retarded can you run me through the Barnett the brains plan to run water through a canal from the Kimberley region to Perth.
> PS small words only.




O.K The biggest problem for W.A's development is water. We let out one years usage from Argyle every three days.
The problem is the cost of pumping it to Perth at the moment we would have to use diesel and that would cost stupid amounts of money.
If we can get gas to the Kimberley and use gas pumps the cost would be reduced heaps. Also the gas and water can go down the same pipe and be seperated.
The benefit of getting reliable water to the pilbara is imeasurable.
Maybe that is why Barnett is pushing for the gas hub at Broome DUH. I'm no brain surgen but it makes a whole lot of sense to me.


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## sptrawler (27 April 2011)

todster said:


> Annual leave all RDO payed at completion(1afortnight)and all sickies payed.PIP.Redundancy 24 hour insurance read it again thats for a labourer




Sounds good to me son jump at it, I'll just struggle along on.


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## todster (27 April 2011)

sptrawler said:


> O.K The biggest problem for W.A's development is water. We let out one years usage from Argyle every three days.
> The problem is the cost of pumping it to Perth at the moment we would have to use diesel and that would cost stupid amounts of money.
> If we can get gas to the Kimberley and use gas pumps the cost would be reduced heaps. Also the gas and water can go down the same pipe and be seperated.
> The benefit of getting reliable water to the pilbara is imeasurable.
> Maybe that is why Barnett is pushing for the gas hub at Broome DUH. I'm no brain surgen but it makes a whole lot of sense to me.




What about the canal bit


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## Smurf1976 (27 April 2011)

todster said:


> Annual leave all RDO payed at completion(1afortnight)and all sickies payed.PIP.Redundancy 24 hour insurance read it again thats for a labourer



Different things suit different people. Some want the $, others just want enough to live on. Each to their own...

Personally, I've been there and done that with the working 7 days a week + being on call thing. I'd do it again if I needed to, but the novelty does wear off after a while. 

As for development in WA and specifically water, I'll just note that the problem isn't lack of it per se, it's just that it isn't in the places where people want to use it. It's a solvable problem at a (rather large) cost.


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## todster (27 April 2011)

sptrawler said:


> O.K The biggest problem for W.A's development is water. We let out one years usage from Argyle every three days.
> The problem is the cost of pumping it to Perth at the moment we would have to use diesel and that would cost stupid amounts of money.
> If we can get gas to the Kimberley and use gas pumps the cost would be reduced heaps. Also the gas and water can go down the same pipe and be seperated.
> The benefit of getting reliable water to the pilbara is imeasurable.
> Maybe that is why Barnett is pushing for the gas hub at Broome DUH. I'm no brain surgen but it makes a whole lot of sense to me.






sptrawler said:


> Sounds good to me son jump at it, I'll just struggle along on.




I imagine still doing shift work at your age would be a struggle but chin up mate we can't all be winners.


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## nunthewiser (27 April 2011)

LOL @ "son"

i have deleted the rest of this post as it is not my place to call anyone a condecending ole fart as the comments are not directed at me.

barnett is a joke.

sorry for the interuption, as you were


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## IFocus (27 April 2011)

Smurf1976 said:


> Different things suit different people. Some want the $, others just want enough to live on. Each to their own...
> 
> Personally, I've been there and done that with the working 7 days a week + being on call thing. I'd do it again if I needed to, but the novelty does wear off after a while.




I think todster talking about construction which always gets a longer rotation BTW the union movement have been a godsend for safety in the construction industry here in WA.



> As for development in WA and specifically water, I'll just note that the problem isn't lack of it per se, *it's just that it isn't in the places where people want to use it.* It's a solvable problem at a (rather large) cost.




Yes sums it up, Barnett went to a previous election with a completely hair brain scheme of building a canal from the Kimberly to Perth (about 3700 KM) at $15 bil cost would have been $6 per kl compared with Reverse Osmosis Plant (desalination plant) cost of $1.17 / kl.

Costs are from memory

Study here if anyone interested

http://www.watercorporation.com.au/...ster/12/Kimberley_Pipeline_Project_Review.pdf


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## drsmith (27 April 2011)

IFocus said:


> Disagree this is worth going into $20 bil dept better than say....a NBN
> 
> Interesting no one has really bought into the argument seriously.
> 
> ...



It's sad to see such a dedicated supporter of the Labor faith reduced to state politics.

It must be like trading Pokemon cards instead of shares.


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## sptrawler (27 April 2011)

nunthewiser said:


> LOL @ "son"
> 
> i have deleted the rest of this post as it is not my place to call anyone a condecending ole fart as the comments are not directed at me.
> 
> ...




No malice intended just a bit of friendly banter, Todster seems like a good bloke and taking it as intended, just a bit of fun. Lightens up another otherwise dry subject.


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## IFocus (27 April 2011)

drsmith said:


> It must be like trading Pokemon cards instead of shares.




LOL more like futures / stocks both will sent you broke. 

But seriously $20 bil projection is of a concern.


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## tryin hard (27 April 2011)

I would have thought the biggest problem with Perth is the sprawling suburbs. The further it goes north and south the more infasructor is needed. Perth has had alack of power in summer and a lack of good transport and still has a lack of water. 

Why worry about a new football oval if some of these things are not addressed properly.


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## drsmith (27 April 2011)

tryin hard said:


> Why worry about a new football oval if some of these things are not addressed properly.



I wonder whether we are being softened up for the delaying of a few projects.

I hope so with the first being that waterfront project. I'm trying to imagine the outcry if a state government suggested anything like that in Adelaide's park lands. They at least value their open spaces around the CBD there.


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## drsmith (27 April 2011)

IFocus said:


> But seriously $20 bil projection is of a concern.



You get back to your Pokemon cards.

Life's too short for a full time detailed analysis of state politics.

Let's see what they do in the budget.


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## nunthewiser (27 April 2011)

sptrawler said:


> No malice intended just a bit of friendly banter, Todster seems like a good bloke and taking it as intended, just a bit of fun. Lightens up another otherwise dry subject.




Yeah.. sorry for being picky ..... it was not my conversation and i butted in......

yeah Todster got a sense of humour.....

 have a great day


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## IFocus (27 April 2011)

drsmith said:


> You get back to your Pokemon cards.
> 
> Life's too short for a full time detailed analysis of state politics.
> 
> Let's see what they do in the budget.





I take that as a look the other way then


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## IFocus (19 May 2011)

drsmith said:


> Let's see what they do in the budget.




I admit I was wrong dept isn't $20 bil its going to be $22 bil..........like I said Liberals sending WA broke.

Hope we all can phony up $10K for each man, woman, kid, cat and dog in the state.

Good news $600 mil on the poor people and long over due increase to health and education cannot argue about that.

Bad news taking dept from Labors time $4 bil to Liberal bankruptcy of $20 bil.

At least some of Barnys mates will be able to drink coffee down next to the river.



> Where the money comes from:
> 
> * Total revenue 2011-12: $25.2 billion
> * Taxation: $6.96 billion (28 per cent)
> ...




Read more: http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/p...n-wa-budget-20110519-1euiz.html#ixzz1Mnc6Z1wl


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## sptrawler (20 May 2011)

As stated in your post, Ifocus, most of the spending blowout is on much needed infrastructure, health, education, public safety and housing.
People can't have it all ways, they are usually saying not enough is being spent on the above, now when it is they are screaming.
As I have always said there is nothing wrong with government debt as long as it is productive or providing essential services. It's the wastage as with federal labor that gives me the absolute $####ts.
Looks like Barnett agrees, he is going to try and stop the federal labor ripping off W.A should be an interesting fight.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ns-budget-target/story-fn8gf1nz-1226059274055


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## trainspotter (20 May 2011)

Interesting to note that the Libs are spending like drunken sailors on shore leave and the Labor Party is accusing them of feckless money irrationale. Shoe on the other foot?

No wait ....... the money being spent is actually going on infratructure, health, police, education, maintenance of existing infrastructure and social services. Not a bad thing surely?

The Barnett government's move to increase royalties on the miners presents Wayne Swan with a major headache after he promised the miners, including BHP Billiton and Rio Tinto, he would reimburse them for all state royalties when the planned $7.4bn mineral resources rent tax starts next year.

Apparently a 2 billion dollar hole in the Federal Budget no less. Ooooopsies.


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## IFocus (20 May 2011)

trainspotter said:


> No wait ....... the money being spent is actually going on infratructure, health, police, education, maintenance of existing infrastructure and social services. Not a bad thing surely?




Agree but the interest payments on $22 bil would build a Fiona Stanley Hospital every year.

There is no irony state Labor or Ripper actually ran balanced budgets and got heavily criticized for being tight and mean.

I thought Barnett was doing a reasonable job and had gotten past stupid things like building canals etc maybe that's in next years budget 

$22 bil dept for a population of 2.3 million people is I think extreme.


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## springhill (20 May 2011)

IFocus, stop stressing out man, grab a beer and chill.
Col will increase the royalties for IO and all will be sweet. After all they are *OUR* (WA's) minerals, NOT the fed's and as such should not be subject to a SUPER PROFI...... oops, i mean MRRT.


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## sptrawler (20 May 2011)

IFocus said:


> Agree but the interest payments on $22 bil would build a Fiona Stanley Hospital every year.
> 
> There is no irony state Labor or Ripper actually ran balanced budgets and got heavily criticized for being tight and mean.
> 
> ...




The $22b isn't much debt if the federal government would give us our fair share of the g.s.t pie. 
Do you think its fair we have to put in all the infrastructure to support the mining sector that in turn brings in most of Australias money. Just to have Gillard and Swan take the money and waste it on hair brained schemes. Then turn round to W.A and say get stuffed your getting less of the pie so suck it up.
I for one would like Barnett to crank up the royalties to the point we don't need the g.s.t begging funds and tell Gillard to get stuffed.
Labor are just wasting Australias future throwing money around on stupid sensless spending.

By the way, I think this is going to put Gillard and Swan right on the top shelf of the shooting gallery.LOL
Barnett's not as stupid as some people think.


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## sptrawler (20 May 2011)

Barnett has the "right take" on it, have a read of his comments today. We in W.A recieved our first winter rain today.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ns-budget-target/story-fn8gf1nz-1226059586044



Wish he was in federal politics, imagine him and Barnaby they would have a great time taking the p!!!ss out of the Julia and Wayne comedy company.
Actualy it is just like labors grievance with Telstra, jump in and start threatening and bullying. The problem is it worked when they were shop stewards and union organisers. But they will learn the hard way that just because you shout and threaten doesn't mean you win.


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## IFocus (20 July 2011)

A look at the future under a Liberal federal government LOL




> The latest utility price hike comes on top of a 57 per cent increase in electricity prices and 42 per cent hike in water prices since the Barnett Government came to power in 2008.




http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/wa/9881028/gas-charges-up-10pc/

Feel free to post up any excuses I will help out i.e. its all labors fault.

Just read this part again apparent the Liberals are not being completely honest.........bit like Abbott I think. 



> He said under the Government’s watch, wholesale gas costs and network charges had soared but Alinta had been denied the opportunity to fully recover those cost increases.


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## drsmith (20 July 2011)

IFocus said:


> its all labors fault.



It's all Labor's fault.


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