# Laser Pen Danger to Aircraft



## noirua (13 October 2009)

This laser pen danger, shone from the ground at aircraft, is now a worldwide problem.  At times reports from Canada and UK have shown several laser pens pointed at an aircraft.  
Time now for this offence to be classified as attempted mass murder of aircraft occupants and to carry a maximum sentence of life imprisonment.


Jailed for 2yrs and 3 months: http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,23505647-5006301,00.html

"Laser fool" jailed for six months: http://laserpointersafety.com/news/files/8aa609ed24a9849e5f4944eaa6e33aa7-24.php

"Laser Pointer":  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/laser_pointer

"Green Laser Pointers...":  http://ezinearticles.com/?Green-Laser-Pointers-And-Aircraft&id=1059545


----------



## satanoperca (13 October 2009)

What is with our gutless legal system.

Sentenced to 2.5 years with a non parole period of 10 months.

How about, you are a f???king idiot and you get 2.5years for being one. Be good in goal or bad you are losing 2.5years of your life.

Actually, how about if you are bad in goal you get an extra 2 years instead of the opposite.

What gives with society?


----------



## jono1887 (13 October 2009)

noirua said:


> Time now for this offence to be classified as attempted mass murder of aircraft occupants and to carry a maximum sentence of life imprisonment.




Perhaps attempted manslaughter??


----------



## Mr J (14 October 2009)

satanoperca said:


> What is with our gutless legal system.




It was just a laser. He does sound like a wanna-be hitman though. Could he even get a gig in Adelaide?


----------



## nomore4s (14 October 2009)

jono1887 said:


> Perhaps attempted manslaughter??




Is there even such a thing as attempted manslaughter?

I thought manslaughter was an accidental killing due to recklessness or whatever - in other words not planned. So I'm not sure how you could have attempted manslaughter, because by definition doesn't it automatically become attempted murder?


----------



## ojm (14 October 2009)

"Attempted manslaughter" could be wrecklessly endangering life?


----------



## Chris45 (14 October 2009)

I suspect these morons are motivated by the same evil desires as the ones who throw rocks on to cars on motorways.

"I'm bored. Let's bring down a plane/cause a pileup for a bit of excitement."

Could the shoot-em-up/smash-em-up video games and movies be a factor here?
Forget jail. Just lobotomize them and let them live and search for food scraps at the council tip!


----------



## Gar (14 October 2009)

Chris45 said:


> Could the shoot-em-up/smash-em-up video games and movies be a factor here?




No, please don't blame it on video games.

The problem here IMO is that he has been enabled, by his parents & the people around him, to develop into a selfish douche bag


----------



## Chris45 (14 October 2009)

Gar said:


> No, please don't blame it on video games.
> 
> The problem here IMO is that he has been enabled, by his parents & the people around him, to develop into a selfish douche bag



To be a "selfish douche bag" is one thing, but to want to cause real death and destruction is something very different. Where does that desire come from if not from the "entertainment" his excuse for a brain feeds on?


----------



## Mr J (14 October 2009)

Chris45 said:


> I suspect these morons are motivated by the same evil desires as the ones who throw rocks on to cars on motorways.




Evil is an artificial concept. It's just careless disregard for the safety of others.



> Where does that desire come from if not from the "entertainment" his excuse for a brain feeds on?




To blame it on movies and video games is extremely ignorant. They may influence him to an extent, but there's almost certainly going to be a problem there anyway. He could get the encouragement from anywhere.


----------



## Chris45 (14 October 2009)

Mr J said:


> Evil is an artificial concept. It's just careless disregard for the safety of others.



My understanding of "evil" is more than just a "careless disregard for the safety of others". It's that which causes harm or destruction or misfortune.



> To blame it on movies and video games is extremely ignorant. They may influence him to an extent, but there's almost certainly going to be a problem there anyway. He could get the encouragement from anywhere.




If video games and violent movies don’t influence our attitudes and behavior, why do we have a billion dollar advertising industry churning out media designed to do just that?


----------



## chode84 (14 October 2009)

There were idiots and "evil" people around long before the dawn of video games, so I can't see how the games could possibly be blamed.


----------



## seasprite (14 October 2009)

this is a bit blurry , hope you can read it.


----------



## Mr J (14 October 2009)

Chris45 said:
			
		

> My understanding of "evil" is more than just a "careless disregard for the safety of others". It's that which causes harm or destruction or misfortune.




Can you claim with reasonable confidence that he intended to bring the chopper down?



> If video games and violent movies don’t influence our attitudes and behavior, why do we have a billion dollar advertising industry churning out media designed to do just that?




Because they are fun. Most people watch movies, and many, many people play video games, yet I don't see them running around harming each other. As chode says, society has always had these types, and I'm sure society has always found ridiculous excuses.


----------



## chode84 (14 October 2009)

This is very true Seasprite,

We had a pilot get "lasered" at the company I work for last year while coming in to land. He said one of the things that happened was the green light bounced around the cockpit as it got reflected off various surfaces. 

On another more humorous note about night vision and flying,  another colleague was once coming into land at Sydney at night on a charter flight in a smaller aircraft with Japanese tourists on board. On short final he felt a tap on the shoulder so he turned around only to cop a camera flash in the eyes. Destroyed his night vision and he told me that he could only just see the runway and land safely.


----------



## Chris45 (14 October 2009)

Mr J said:


> Can you claim with reasonable confidence that he intended to bring the chopper down?



Why else would you aim a high powered laser at an aircraft? The dangers have been well publicized.



> Because they are fun. Most people watch movies, and many, many people play video games, yet I don't see them running around harming each other. As chode says, society has always had these types, and I'm sure society has always found ridiculous excuses.



Are you saying that the youth of today are no more violent than the youth of, say, 50 yrs ago?


----------



## Mr J (14 October 2009)

Chris45 said:
			
		

> Why else would you aim a high powered laser at an aircraft? The dangers have been well publicized.




They could just be ignorant or careless. Sure, some people who do these things do it with malicious intent, but I think to most it just seemed a fun idea at the time, despite how stupid it seems.



> Are you saying that the youth of today are no more violent than the youth of, say, 50 yrs ago?




I won't because I have no evidence, but I am skeptical. If you're claiming youth are more violent, where's your evidence?


----------



## Vizion (14 October 2009)

The article did not really state why lasers where a danger to the pilots, it is not however the fact they kill their night vision.  Lasers pointers are supposed to be class 1 devices but in actual fact alot of cheap Chinese imports are closer to class 3.

Thats a  bigger problem that you might think as Class 3 devices can & do cause almost immediate blindness if it hits the retina at the point the optic nerve joins the retina.
 They do the damage faster than the blink reflex of the human eye can protect you which is 0.25 of a second.
Even if they don't hit the most vulnerable part of the eye they can cause cataracts as they "boil" the cornea. 

Laser pointers are now classed in the same way as guns in NSW. If you are caught importing them without a license you can be charged under a firearms offense.

If your interested I have a bucket load of information on this as one of the things I am at work is an LSO (Laser Safety Officer) 

Cheers


----------



## Chris45 (14 October 2009)

Mr J said:


> If you're claiming youth are more violent, where's your evidence?



Surely you're joking!!! A quick google of youth violence statistics led to this for starters:
http://www.matthewstanleyfoundation.com.au/page.asp?navstr=56,100&Pagecat=100

"Police statistics over the past decade (1997-2006) reveal *substantial increases in youth violence across Australia*."
- Professor Paul Mazerolle is director of the violence research and prevention program at Griffith University.

But if you want to believe that youth violence is not a problem and that violent media is not a contributing factor then I think you're being incredibly naive.

The simple fact is that there is a problem and I wish that our society would address the causes, even if it means youths sacrificing some of their simple pleasures, but of course that's not going to happen because most youths these days are basically selfish and are not prepared to make any sacrifices even for the benefit of the community.

We should ban all gratuitously violent media, like we've banned child pornography, and see if we can cure this cancer that's threatening to destroy our society.

Peaceful citizens should not be afraid to go out at night and enjoy themselves but many are these days because of the groups of violent youths that go around looking for a bit of "excitement".

If you think that violent media is not a major contributor then tell me what is.


----------



## Mr J (14 October 2009)

That site seems unlikely to be objective about the issue, and I didn't see any statement of statistics.



> But if you want to believe that youth violence is not a problem and that violent media is not a contributing factor then I think you're being incredibly naive.




No, I'm just not forming a conclusion on something that has not been proven. It's not sensible to assume modern media is any more than minimally influential until it has been shown that there is a high probability that it is influencial. Countless studies have been conducted, and I'm not aware of any that have shown with great confidence that media is signficantly influential. Even if it appears to be influential, it does not mean that it actually is. 

Take a nutter who loves video games and goes out and massacres a group of people. Do we blame the video games, or did he already have issues to start with? Perhaps the video games were a coincidence, or he was drawn to them because he was already sick? 



> We should ban all gratuitously violent media, like we've banned child pornography, and see if we can cure this cancer that's threatening to destroy our society.




What cancer has been removed by child pornography being illegal? There's no shortage of pedophiles out there, and I'm sure there never has been. I highly doubt anyone has engaged with a child sexually simply because they saw it on media.

If you're going to debate this, please provide evidence rather than these unreasonable arguments.


----------



## Smurf1976 (14 October 2009)

Chris45 said:


> "Police statistics over the past decade (1997-2006) reveal *substantial increases in youth violence across Australia*."
> - Professor Paul Mazerolle is director of the violence research and prevention program at Griffith University.
> 
> But if you want to believe that youth violence is not a problem and that violent media is not a contributing factor then I think you're being incredibly naive.



The basic principle of deterring crime is that there will be some form of punishment for those who offend.

Trouble is, a fist in the face or a glass smashed over someone's head doesn't result in any real punishment. A slap on the wrist and straight back on the streets ready to re-offend at the first opportunity.

Blame "smart" lawyers, slack judges and pathetic laws for this situation. The legal system (as distinct from a justice system which we don't have) has become an outright joke and that's well known, hence there's no disincentive to crime these days.


----------



## Chris45 (15 October 2009)

Mr J said:


> That site seems unlikely to be objective about the issue, and I didn't see any statement of statistics.



Well, here’s a statistic for you:
“From 1997 to 2007, the number of young people charged with assault rose by 48%.”
_- Australian Institute of Criminology (2008) Australian Crime: Facts and Figures, p. 59_

I’m not going to get bogged down in a futile debate with you where everything has to be proven. If you believe that modern media has no significant influence on people’s behavior and there’s nothing to worry about and everything is fine with the world, then I’m sure there will be nothing I can say that would cause you to think differently. Anyway, there doesn’t seem to be any real will in the community to try and reverse the trend towards increasing violence so there seems little point in discussing it further.

However, I wonder how you would feel if one night *you* were driving along a highway at 110kph and someone shone a laser in your eyes (or threw a brick at you) causing you to crash and quite possibly sustain very serious injuries. But that’s OK, “it was just a laser” and he wasn’t intending to cause you to crash “it just seemed a un idea at the time”.


----------



## Mr J (15 October 2009)

Chris45 said:
			
		

> Well, here’s a statistic for you:
> “From 1997 to 2007, the number of young people charged with assault rose by 48%.”
> - Australian Institute of Criminology (2008) Australian Crime: Facts and Figures, p. 59




I'm not saying whether you are right or wrong, but the statistic is on arrests, not offences.



> I’m not going to get bogged down in a futile debate with you where everything has to be proven.




If you are going to make a claim, you should support it with evidence rather than emotional statements such as "how would you feel?". My feelings having nothing to do with it.



> f you believe that modern media has no significant influence on people’s behavior and there’s nothing to worry about and everything is fine with the world, then I’m sure there will be nothing I can say that would cause you to think differently.




I believe it is possible that some people may be influenced by repulsive acts shown in media, but I also believe these people are the type to commit these acts independently of media. I don't think it is likely that a good kid starts watching violent movies, and then decides to start beating up other kids. I'm sure I read that peer pressure is the greatest influence for most, and the rest seemingly come down to environmental, psychological or chemical factors.

You won't change my mind because you haven't made a good argument, not because my mind is unchangeable. I think it's interesting that you jump to the conclusion of media, rather than acknowledging other factors that have proven to be significantly influential, such as social and psychological issues.


----------



## noirua (15 October 2009)

This website with its links are a concern.  Should these green lasers be banned worldwide?:  http://www.skypointer.net


----------



## seasprite (15 October 2009)

chode84 said:


> We had a pilot get "lasered" at the company I work for last year while coming in to land. He said one of the things that happened was the green light bounced around the cockpit as it got reflected off various surfaces.




I have been lasered once , fortunately it was a moonlit night and the runway lights were activated. Apart from that there is nothing worse than doing frost protection and the orchardist waves you in with his torch instead of using the handheld radio you gave him.



chode84 said:


> On another more humorous note about night vision and flying,  another colleague was once coming into land at Sydney at night on a charter flight in a smaller aircraft with Japanese tourists on board. On short final he felt a tap on the shoulder so he turned around only to cop a camera flash in the eyes. Destroyed his night vision and he told me that he could only just see the runway and land safely.




hardcase , I guarantee there were a few 4 letter words when that story was told.


----------



## Chris45 (15 October 2009)

Chris45 said:


> Well, here’s a statistic for you: “From 1997 to 2007, the number of young people charged with *assault* rose by 48%.”






Mr J said:


> I'm not saying whether you are right or wrong, but the statistic is on arrests, not offences.



Probably as good an example as any for why continuing this discussion with you is pointless.


----------



## Mr J (15 October 2009)

Maybe you're happy to fill in the blanks with assumptions, but I am not. More may have been charged because violence is up, or perhaps people are more likely to report it these days. I can't discount the latter because when we had fights at school, it never went further. These days it does seem parents are far more likely to have the other kid charged. There's also no reference to whether the youths are more violent, or just acting more on their violent nature. I'm sure there are many other possible explanations. You're not willing to consider anything other than youths are more violent, so yes, discussing this with me is pointless. You have already made up your mind.


----------



## nomore4s (15 October 2009)

LMAO



Mr J said:


> Maybe you're happy to fill in the blanks with assumptions, but I am not.




The statement above is followed by:



> More may have been charged because violence is up, or perhaps people are more likely to report it these days. I can't discount the latter because when we had fights at school, it never went further. *These days it does seem parents are far more likely to have the other kid charged.*




Isn't that an assumption? Where are your figures to back that up? :


----------



## Chris45 (15 October 2009)

Mr J said:


> ... so yes, discussing this with me is pointless.



Excellent! You finally agree with me on something. Haveaniceday.


----------



## Mr J (15 October 2009)

No, my use of qualifiers shows that it is just an observation and that I'm not stating it as fact :. Unfortunately, my heavy use of qualifiers is often overlooked on this site!


----------

