# CDU - Cudeco Limited



## stockmaster (20 July 2006)

Replacing AUM today, a strong day for US market and also rise in base metal & gold price, likely to see a rise today after declined 3 days in a row. 


*Admin note:* Cudeco Limited (CDU) is the new name of Australian Mining Investments (AUM). Previous discussion on AUM can be found here: https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3679


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## parmigianich (20 July 2006)

stockmaster said:
			
		

> Replacing AUM today, a strong day for US market and also rise in base metal & gold price, likely to see a rise today after declined 3 days in a row.




Again I don't think so. 

I wouldn't expect AUM will trade above yesterdays high of $2.65 at any time this month or next.


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## parmigianich (20 July 2006)

It has just traded at $2.65 after opening at $2.55.  Well I'm not wrong yet.  I am now- $2.67, $2.69.  Oh well.  Let's see how the day goes.


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## sangshim (20 July 2006)

up 27c to 2.55 but there are more sellers than buyers at the moment.


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## powerkoala (20 July 2006)

I think is very hard to go back in $5 area...
miracle perhaps???


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## sangshim (20 July 2006)

maybe in 3~4 years time... that's if everything goes well.


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## ALFguy (20 July 2006)

My Etrade portfolio says I'm holding 650 shares...which I most certainly don't.
Very odd...tried to sell them but says I don't hold.
Clever little system they have  :


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## stockmaster (20 July 2006)

It's $2.70 now, surpass the $2.65 mark. Likely to see further rise due to the positive sign of the market!


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## sangshim (20 July 2006)

It's really volatile...

2.55 -> 2.50 -> 2.69 -> 2.52 -> 2.71 -> 2.65

Anyone has any idea where it'll be landing?


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## stockmaster (20 July 2006)

I doubt anyone noes the exact pricing, but i fink there is a couple of barrier to look for.

First $2.65, that's was the high couple days a ago - passed

Second $2.80 - the price ended at that price be4 it rised to 5.2 the other day

$3.00 - mental barrier

$4.05 - opening price when the sus was over.

After $4.05 anything can happen!


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## sangshim (20 July 2006)

stockmaster said:
			
		

> I doubt anyone noes the exact pricing, but i fink there is a couple of barrier to look for.
> 
> First $2.65, that's was the high couple days a ago - passed
> 
> ...




You think it's possible to go back up to $4 range in a short term?

hmmm.. I doubt it.. a huge ann such as big corp jumping in as a substantial shareholder and additional copper discovery will be needed to break $3 in my opinion.


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## stockmaster (20 July 2006)

sangshim said:
			
		

> You think it's possible to go back up to $4 range in a short term?
> 
> hmmm.. I doubt it.. a huge ann such as big corp jumping in as a substantial shareholder and additional copper discovery will be needed to break $3 in my opinion.





I can't say it will or not, i am not a price maker , but the price movement will tell, if it pass my barrier than i will buy. Wat is ur stratgey? i dun look at chart(not a charter)


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## muddywaters (20 July 2006)

ALFguy said:
			
		

> My Etrade portfolio says I'm holding 650 shares...which I most certainly don't.
> Very odd...tried to sell them but says I don't hold.
> Clever little system they have  :





e-trade is too sophisticated to handle the name change.  Mine shows I still hold AUM at yesterdays close.


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## powerkoala (20 July 2006)

wow
goes to $2.99
nice move yeahhhhh


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## muddywaters (20 July 2006)

powerkoala said:
			
		

> wow
> goes to $2.99
> nice move yeahhhhh





I have seen some weird ****.  $3.50?  This is amazing.


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## powerkoala (20 July 2006)

miracle is happening today
thanks god
let's pray guys


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## cuttlefish (20 July 2006)

new drill results so far continuing to confirm what they've been saying.


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## powerkoala (20 July 2006)

4 bucks... ouch,.....
yesterday timber..... 
today towwwwwwwwwwwwerrrr


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## Joe Blow (20 July 2006)

powerkoala said:
			
		

> miracle is happening today
> thanks god
> let's pray guys




Instead of praying, why not check the announcements:



> New Drill Results
> • New drilling results extend the strike length of the Las Minerale zone 50m
> northwest.
> • Cobalt intersections of up to 0.64 % Co reported.
> ...




Gents I'm becoming a little concerned about the lack of content in many of the posts in some stock threads. There seems to be a lot more ramping going on and I am going to address this issue at some point over the next few days in a separate thread.

Can we all please try to focus on quality of posts, rather than quantity?

Thank you.


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## daa (20 July 2006)

does that mean the drill results supports what they've been saying?


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## sangshim (20 July 2006)

Wow... 66% up on the further drilling result release...
That's just after I've sold 10k @ 2.72

Damn!!!! Missed $10,000


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## ALFguy (20 July 2006)

*• DORC-103 intersected (down-hole) 60m @ 1.67 % Cu from 146-206m, including 19m @ 3.92% Cu and 2,250 ppm Co from 151-170m.
• DORC-102 intersected (down-hole) 46m @ 0.57% Cu from 29-75m.*

Does anyone have an idea where these holes are located on the mineralised trend map accompanying the announcement?
The resolution is pretty bad and my eyes aren't what they used to be


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## sangshim (20 July 2006)

ALFguy said:
			
		

> *• DORC-103 intersected (down-hole) 60m @ 1.67 % Cu from 146-206m, including 19m @ 3.92% Cu and 2,250 ppm Co from 151-170m.
> • DORC-102 intersected (down-hole) 46m @ 0.57% Cu from 29-75m.*
> 
> Does anyone have an idea where these holes are located on the mineralised trend map accompanying the announcement?
> The resolution is pretty bad and my eyes aren't what they used to be




"New drilling results extend the strike length of the Las Minerale zone 50m to the northwest."

Oh! You wanted the exact location?


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## ALFguy (20 July 2006)

sangshim said:
			
		

> Oh! You wanted the exact location?




Just a little confused because they note the coordinates but I can't see those holes on the map. Maybe they were left off - like a treasure hunt!!

Am trying to get an idea of how big the zone is and guestimate a bit.


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## cuttlefish (20 July 2006)

ALFGuy - change the zoom settings when you view the PDF and its easier to see (set zoom to 200% in acrobat). They're the last two assayed (dark red) holes on the top left of the diagram, they're right next to all the other holes that have been assayed so far but 50m further along.  (so all they do is confirm the strike has been extended by 50m - which was the figure used on either end of the strike for the 25m inferred figure).   There's also other holes shown that they've drilled but not assayed yet.


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## sangshim (20 July 2006)

Drilling results boost CuDeco shares
July 20, 2006 - 7:44PM

Shares in copper explorer CuDeco Ltd went for another rollercoaster ride on Thursday after the junior company extended the size of the Las Minerale deposit.

The former Australian Mining Investments Ltd has been drilling at the deposit, part of the Rocklands group copper project in Queensland, with the latest results sending its shares skyrocketing to $3.79, up $1.51 or 66.2 per cent.

CuDeco said the latest drilling results extended the strike length of the Las Minerale zone by 50 metres.

Better intersections from the drilling included 60 metres grading 1.67 per cent copper from a depth of 146 metres.

The drill hole also returned the highest cobalt assay to date of nine metres grading 0.39 per cent cobalt.

More than 10.3 million shares were traded in the stock, worth more than $30 million.

CuDeco shares ran up to $10.00 earlier this month after it said the Las Minerale project hosted a resource of more than 59 million tonnes grading 2.04 per cent copper equivalent.

The company was later forced to clarify the resource, resulting in a halved figure of 25 million tonnes grading two per cent copper equivalent, sending shares as low as $2.55.

-----------------------------
Now SMH started to report news in a neutral way....


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## cuttlefish (20 July 2006)

ALFGuy - in the 17th July report, in the second part towards the end after the first lot of diagrams and assays, where it provides the post-june drilling update there's a map thats a bit less fuzzy (though it doesn't have the new holes drilled since of course - but at least lets you figure out a lot of them).


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## Kill Zone (20 July 2006)

I understand that there is due to be a further report on drilling progress toward the end of the month. This is on top of the one today. The CU% of some of these intersections are pretty impressive and the drill teams are working around the clock at the moment. Exciting times aren't they!!!


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## ALFguy (21 July 2006)

cuttlefish said:
			
		

> ALFGuy - in the 17th July report, in the second part towards the end after the first lot of diagrams and assays, where it provides the post-june drilling update there's a map thats a bit less fuzzy (though it doesn't have the new holes drilled since of course - but at least lets you figure out a lot of them).




Thanks cuttlefish, think I'll take a look at that.
The one in the current ann was pretty bad quality, even when zoomed.
Am trying to learn more about how to value these resources, what all the figures mean etc. More informed punts


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## DOC (21 July 2006)

does anyone believe that this company has any future with the info at hand thus far??
I'm a little confused with the rollercoaster rides we're seeing. I'm still holding a small tranch I bought at 7.80 and are a little lost for direction.


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## pussycat2005 (21 July 2006)

Trust Wayne Macrae 

CDU is a take over target! and he's doing everything he can to increase shareholder value by digging 7 days a week to prove up the resource before a hostile take over gets underway!

so just enjoy the ride

$5  $6 tomorrow! 

Back to $7.00 it goes!


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## sangshim (21 July 2006)

BUY 
Number Quantity Price 
1 666 4.900 
1 666 4.850 
1 666 4.800 
4 9,300 4.500 
1 18,000 4.200 
2 31,500 4.100 
1 50,000 4.050 
8 45,505 4.000 
1 7,000  3.960 
1 7,500  3.950 

SELL 
Price Quantity  Number 
3.200 6,000  1 
3.340 1,500  1 
3.680 7,000  1 
3.690 10,000  1 
3.700 13,500  3 
3.750 225  1 
3.780 1,887  1 
3.790 10,210  4 
3.800 30,000  2 
3.830 4,000  1 

Buy orders are increasing.
May start at $4.3


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## ALFguy (21 July 2006)

Hi Sangshim,

appreciate the info.
Any idea what the IPA is looking like now?


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## sangshim (21 July 2006)

opened @3.58...


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## pharaoh (21 July 2006)

What a day guys!
Wow

I finally entered at 3.50 and am stoked.
Watch this baby run next week on next ann!!

Onya Wayne


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## redandgreen (21 July 2006)

pharaoh said:
			
		

> What a day guys!
> Wow
> 
> I finally entered at 3.50 and stoked.
> ...



likewise, I bought into today encouraged mainly by comments late  last night by an analyst from Macquarie Bank on SKY NEWS that seemed to think that the drill results could easily see the price again @ $10
I was fully expecting that the shares would rally today.... they didn't so I decided to buy.
This post must not be construed as "ramping"  if anything  it is an admission of my own gullibility!
We will see......


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## sangshim (22 July 2006)

Two articles from the Australian

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,19867652-643,00.html

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,19867872-643,00.html


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## pharaoh (22 July 2006)

Hey guys

Next round of ann's will prive the resource. 
My gut feeling is these are the times to stock up, esp if it gets below $3 

Many are waiting until the resources are "proven" 

By that stage getting in, profts will be good, I am hoping that by getting in now, profits down the track will be spectacular.

Here's hoping


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## NettAssets (24 July 2006)

Etrade depth has CDU in preopen still 

there is a drill ann. (reasonably good) but cant see a Halt notice what gives?


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## ALFguy (24 July 2006)

The latest ann is pretty good but the usual buying frenzy hasn't kicked in.

Be interesting to watch what happens to this later today.


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## NettAssets (24 July 2006)

Back to normal trading now but it looks as if the market wanted a better drill result


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## edogg75 (24 July 2006)

Better drill result??? Seems pretty spectacular to me. What did you have in mind?


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## redandgreen (24 July 2006)

SP weakness could suggest that day trader money is chasing the CQTs and ENRs of this world.
I think CDU will prove to be a sound investment...we will see


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## noirua (24 July 2006)

The declining price of copper will not be helping Cudeco and similar stocks.

" Copper down as China tightens the Brakes " : http://www.aireview.com.au/index.php?act=view&catid=8&id=4200&setSub=1


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## crayfish (24 July 2006)

From http://www.miningnews.net/StoryView.asp?StoryID=62444

_*Curious CuDeco saga raises questions of ASX * – Dryblower 


Monday, 24 July 2006

DRYBLOWER has not come to praise Wayne McCrae, nor has he come to bury him like so many others. Rather, he thinks it time to ask a few questions of the chaps who charge large fees to run a stock exchange, but appear to think they can do so with limited liability.

McCrae is chairman of CuDeco, the Queensland copper explorer that traded as Australian Mining Investments until a few days ago.

He hit the headlines for the best (and the worst) of reasons after reporting a whopping copper resource from the Rocklands project near Cloncurry in northwest Queensland – followed progressively by a request for a trading halt, suspension, 10 days of mystery, re-instatement, and a share price that oscillated between $1.78 and $10 in a matter of days. 

The average reader should be up to speed with the Rocklands saga, but what they are almost certainly not up to speed with is the action, of the slow-moving variety, at Australian Stock Exchange Ltd, the company that runs a public institution called the Australian Stock Exchange.

Before thinking Blower's gone barmy, the difference between ASX Ltd and ASX is critical to what happened to CuDeco, and a few other companies over the past week.

On the one hand we have a business (ASX Ltd) that makes a profit from people who use the exchange (companies and investors), and a company that fulfils (sometimes) a regulatory role with "friends" at government organisations such as the Australian Securities & Investments Commission and the Joint Ore Reserves Committee (JORC).

It is the clash between business and regulator that most interests Blower, because on the one hand we watched an organisation accept without question the original June 29 statement from Australian Mining Investments and release it to the market at 10.49am. Naturally, when someone says he's made a terrific discovery, the shares will have shot sharply higher – AMI rose from $1.78 on the day before to a close of $2.24 on the day, and then rapidly up over the next four trading days.

It was on the sixth trading day after the Rockdale announcement that the ASX morphed from being a business making a profit on every trade, to ASX the regulator that wanted the statement checked over by experts. Another eight days later and AMI resumed trading and changed its name to CuDeco.

It's the six days of pre-suspension trading that really interests Blower, who understands that staff at ASX Ltd cannot investigate every report lodged every second of the day. To do that would slow business to a crawl.

But, surely it is possible for ASX (the business) to employ sufficient staff with technical competency to check the more enthusiastic and exciting reports, especially from mineral exploration companies in the middle of the biggest boom in Australian history.

There was no winner from the Rocklands reporting fiasco. McCrae was forced to amend his June 29 report – 19 days after the event. The ASX, which has a seat on JORC, was made to look like it has all the efficiency of a government licensing department on a bad day, and JORC itself was made to look like a toothless tiger.

Blame for the mess, if there is any, lies heavily with the ASX for not fulfilling its role as regulator and worrying too much about being a business.

McCrae, if he is to be blamed with anything, is guilty of being enthusiastic for what looks to be a fabulous discovery – and in Blower's world, enthusiasm is not a crime, it's what a company chairman gets paid for._


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## BSD (24 July 2006)

edogg75 said:
			
		

> Better drill result??? Seems pretty spectacular to me. What did you have in mind?





Grade would appear to be falling from the original bold claim of 2.0%Cu

One hole at 0.95% and another at 0.50% - not very good at all considering the hype and the results needed to maintain the currently stretched valuation

Shows why one shouldn't 'extrapolate' hundreds of metres of strike length after drilling a few holes


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## havingfun (27 July 2006)

anyone notice some interesting buying of CDU in the last half hour of trade?? Has been coming off at the end of the day last couple of days,except today.This happened just before ann on the 20th with good results,but not before ann on the 24th with ave. results.Some paid up to 2.85 before the close.Up 5% for the day.....Why.....Will be interesting to see if anything comes out tomorrow......Any thoughts????


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## kariba (28 July 2006)

havingfun said:
			
		

> anyone notice some interesting buying of CDU in the last half hour of trade?? Has been coming off at the end of the day last couple of days,except today.This happened just before ann on the 20th with good results,but not before ann on the 24th with ave. results.Some paid up to 2.85 before the close.Up 5% for the day.....Why.....Will be interesting to see if anything comes out tomorrow......Any thoughts????




My thoughts exactly ... buying has always been strong just prior to announcements. Also we have been getting 1 every 4 days:

17/7
20/7
24/7
28/7 ????? ..... Lets see!

cheers


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## pharaoh (28 July 2006)

Fingers crossed.

Reckon one is due. 

But, has been much more stable of late, maybe good to have a few weeks of no news, let it stabilise and then impress the market as they start to reclaim the resource size they initially stated


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## Prospector (28 July 2006)

And, on queue, another announcement reaffirming the Directors excitement!  Nice call lads  :


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## havingfun (28 July 2006)

up to 3.10 in the first hour,interesting watching.... make that 3.19.... so much for stability


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## havingfun (28 July 2006)

if it does its usual trick, watch for it to settle around the middle of the day, then it should pull back to low $3 maybe even break into the sub $3, then look for buying in the last hour.


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## havingfun (29 July 2006)

From mining new fri 28th     CuDeco chairman cashes in some chips 

Friday, 28 July 2006
Michael Vaughan

HIGH-profile Cloncurry copper chaser CuDeco has increased the exploration target for its Rocklands project by 50% to more than 75 million tonnes as chairman Wayne McCrae pockets more than $2 million through the sale of options on market. 

Native copper from CuDeco's Rocklands copper project 

In its June quarterly report, CuDeco describes the famed Rocklands project near Cloncurry in Queensland as having an inferred resource of 25Mt at 1.6% copper within a target of 100Mt+.

When the Australian Stock Exchange forced the company to revise its initial 59Mt resource for Rocklands, the figure was downgraded to 25Mt plus an exploration target of 40-50Mt.

No qualification for the increased exploration target was offered by CuDeco, who incidentally, is now calling itself "the new force in copper" in a description reminiscent of Fortescue Metals Group.

Meanwhile in a stock exchange notice yesterday, McCrae advised he had sold 890,200 options on market between Thursday, July 20 and Monday, July 24 at an average price of $2.25 to pocket just over $2 million.

Shares of CuDeco opened at $2.55 on July 20 and closed at $2.85 on July 24, reaching a high of $3.90 in the interim period.

McCrae also advised he has exercised 3.04 million options at 20c each by paying $607,741.

He and his fellow directors were recently forced to withdraw an options package at the company's annual general meeting earlier in the month after the intervention of the Australian Securities and Investment Commission.

Shares in CuDeco were up 29c (10.47%) at $3.06 in midday trade.


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## scsl (1 August 2006)

havingfun said:
			
		

> No qualification for the increased exploration target was offered by CuDeco, who incidentally, is now calling itself "the new force in copper" in a description reminiscent of Fortescue Metals Group.



apart from the description used, i think the CDU sp has reminded me of FMG's sp behaviour when its iron ore reserves first became known. 

i just entered the august tipping comp with CDU. this is a 100% guess, none of that 'gut feeling' or predictions of what CDU might release next. 

CDU may possibly announce further copper reserves or other good news which may send the sp upwards again. i have no clue what will happen... in fact, does anyone? but going back to FMG, it's had a lot of steep ups and downs and i think CDU _could_ replicate this as it comes across things such as regulatory setbacks, financing issues, downgrade in quality of copper etc.

i've previously held FMG shares but have never held CDU/AUM.


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## havingfun (2 August 2006)

another pretty strong day today[considering the rest of the market took a flogging],looked like it was going backwards early with no interest then hit strongly at lunch time. May be worth watching closely the next few days.Looks like a similar pattern preceding announcements.Also for those who like to day trade,great range of about 20c each day,quite easy to read.


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## havingfun (7 August 2006)

Trading halt 10.08 this morning


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## feeding_the_fire (7 August 2006)

Can anyone read the announcement? My link from ASX.com.au doesn't seem to work.


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## havingfun (7 August 2006)

cdu requested trading halt pending a release regarding drill results ..... can only be good news....


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## NettAssets (9 August 2006)

CDU drilling report released


size of strike looks confirmed but assays are well below 2%

THIS IS ONLY A QUICK LOOK from me and Im no expert in reading drilling reports

John


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## havingfun (9 August 2006)

''The Company has employed the services of Coffey Mining a subsidiary of Coffey International Ltd as Geological Consultants.
The scope of works to be carried out by Coffey’s is to prepare to resource statement on the Rockland Group Copper Project. The statement will entail providing CuDeco with a JORC code mineral resource in the category of measured and indicated and inferred. The Mineral Resource is to be compiled on the completion of the drilling of Las Minerale and the completion of 5 deep diamond holes + 300m under the Double Oxide Prospect. The company is providing Coffey’s with continuous results of drilling on a regular basis. It is anticipated a new resource for Las Minerale, Rocklands Central and Double Oxide will be completed during September 2006.''


I dont think you'll see any significant move untill the new resource statement is released sometime in sept[as above quote from todays release] Till then should make for some great trading days....been able to pick up an extra 3000 shares per week on average since the big drop.... mind you thats only going to be of use if they come up with the goods...


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## pharaoh (9 August 2006)

YEP, SEPT NEWS, oops caps lock, will be the big one. 
I am stoked to be honest, as my tax comes back next week, and most is going on cdu

and maybe buying in low $3's, not the $4 + I had expected.

3000 a week extra, how many do you have havingfun??
geez, I wish I had that many


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## havingfun (10 August 2006)

yeah ,started with 20,000 , now have around 30,000, would like to try and get to 50,000 by the time the sept ann. comes.....but we'll have to see.
Seven more drill holes contained visual minerisation.... dont know how long the assay results will take for these,but they may signal the last chance to get any below $4.

3rd Aug trades , 2days before latest ann. saw a couple of significant buys of over 100,000 shares [over $300k] didnt see any sells to match them.

Dont be afraid to sell yours on the little runs,buy back on the slide and pick up extra shares, not that difficult to pick the range.Cant see it dropping below $3 or trading much above $3.30 in the next couple of weeks unless there are some who want 2 force it down[which is possible] or tyhe next assay results come early


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## havingfun (11 August 2006)

So much for my $3 range............


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## feeding_the_fire (11 August 2006)

Keep the faith! If Wayne can come up with some concrete proof, you won't be feeling so blue!


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## havingfun (12 August 2006)

Still have the faith.......speaking to few people in the industry and Sept. resource statment will be the test.


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## havingfun (12 August 2006)

not one to listen to any of the speculation .... having said that has anyone else heard about the takeover talk?????


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## NettAssets (17 August 2006)

New Announcement

High grade drilling results

950M strike confirmed

John


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## Sean K (17 August 2006)

Should be good for about a 5% gain. Maybe more.


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## havingfun (17 August 2006)

Attach from mining news 17th


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## havingfun (18 August 2006)

anyone care to guess at Waynes target price?????                                    MINING NEWS 18th AUG   



                                                                                                              We're vindicated: CuDeco's McCrae


Paul Garvey
Friday, 18 August 2006
CUDECO executive chairman Wayne McCrae says he feels "completely vindicated" by recent results from the company's expanding Rocklands copper project in Queensland, saying the Australian Stock Exchange erred in compelling the company into a downward revision of the project's resource earlier this year.



Drilling at CuDeco's North Queensland copper projects
CuDeco yesterday announced its latest drilling at the project had extended the strike length of the mineralised zone to 950m, the same length extrapolated in the 59 million tonne resource the company was made to halve in July. 

Speaking to MiningNews.net yesterday from the project in Queensland's Cloncurry region, McCrae said the latest results proved the ASX was wrong in suspending the company for 10 days in early July while the company reconsidered the resource calculation released on June 29.

"They [the ASX] have got to regulate the companies that trade on the stock exchange, I can understand that, I just think there could have been a better way for them to handle that," McCrae said.

"Number one is get on a plane come up here and have a look, instead of trying to do it out of an office in Sydney."

McCrae said he maintained that the original 59Mt resource that sparked the controversy was compliant under the JORC code.

"We complied with the JORC code, and the actual resource on June 29 was done by a competent person qualified under JORC. That's what we couldn't understand. The company didn't do it, an independent consultant did it," he said.

"We re-categorised it because the ASX wouldn't let us back on the market unless we did. 

"The ASX wanted it re-categorised and that's what we did but that was done for them and not for us."

McCrae said yesterday's results justified the 950m strike length over which the company's consultants had originally extrapolated the resource, and added he thought the company would be "more than vindicated" by September.

"I want to reiterate that while the stock exchange got this one wrong, they get most of the other ones right. There's no animosity at all, and that's why we haven't worried about it. We knew we were going to get there [950m strike length]. Things just aren't 100m wide and peter out. They don't just stop. 

"If the thing was 3m wide or 5m wide, you might have something to worry about, but we're consistently getting intersections of between 50m and 150m width, so we knew we were on to something majestic."

McCrae – who almost had both legs amputated several years ago after being involved in a helicopter accident – said he was unperturbed by the criticism directed towards himself and the company from certain sections of the media in the wake of the July resource revision.

"I discovered the Century zinc deposit, and copped exactly the same flak … so it was dÃ©jÃ  vu to me, water off a duck's back, to tell you the truth.

"When you've got grey hair, when you've been in a helicopter crash that almost cut both your legs off, there's not really much anyone could do to hurt you."

McCrae also played down suggestions the metallurgy of Rocklands could make processing of the project's ore difficult, saying assaying of drill core suggested the ore had favourable metallurgy.

"We haven't done metallurgical test work, and nor do we need to at this stage, but it's a similar deposit and style of mineralisation to Ernest Henry, and when the laboratory do the assays they're actually telling us the metallurgy is really good," he said.

"The metallurgy is fairly simple, there's no arsenic or any of those things you don't want in an ore body like this. Basically you can base it on exactly what Ernest Henry's is."

CuDeco has had the benefit of using its own onsite laboratory that is maintained as part of the company's existing copper sulphate openpit operation, which has been operating at the project for three years.

McCrae confirmed CuDeco was in discussions with a number of parties interested in involvement in Rocklands, but ruled out the possibility of a joint venture over the asset.

"We're talking to a number of [interested parties] at this stage, we're going to retain 100% of it for as long as we can, and as far as joint ventures go, no there won't be a joint venture, but there might be an agreement with one group to do the mining and another group to do the processing, that more than likely will be one option. We'll own 100% of it or none of it, it'll be one of the two," he said.

"If we get taken out, then we get taken out, but as long as we get value for the shareholders, I don't really care."

McCrae, who owns just under 20% of CuDeco's issued capital, was reluctant to disclose a price tag for the project.

"I've got a price in mind, but if I tell you it'll be across all the papers tomorrow," he said.
Click here to read the rest of today's news stories.


----------



## muddywaters (21 August 2006)

abc news today:



> Monday, August 21, 2006. 9:38am (AEST)
> Law firm may sue CuDeco over stock prices
> Law firm Slater & Gordon is investigating the possibility of suing copper explorer CuDeco.
> 
> ...




http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200608/s1719577.htm


----------



## havingfun (21 August 2006)

They havent got hope in hell


----------



## NettAssets (21 August 2006)

havingfun said:
			
		

> They havent got hope in hell



I really hope you are right HF but some judges seem to be quite removed from financial reality
John


----------



## havingfun (21 August 2006)

NettAssets said:
			
		

> I really hope you are right HF but some judges seem to be quite removed from financial reality
> John





There will be about 100 other companies ****ting themselves if they do and are successful.......


----------



## havingfun (22 August 2006)

up to 3.24 today on nothing?????


----------



## feeding_the_fire (22 August 2006)

Perhaps people are beginning to sense what McCrae said might've been true... in which case $3.24 may seem cheap in a few months!


----------



## Dr Stock (22 August 2006)

Might have something to do with Escondida. That's what crazyjim on another forum reckons.

Other copper explorers are also up


----------



## havingfun (22 August 2006)

Dr Stock said:
			
		

> Might have something to do with Escondida. That's what crazyjim on another forum reckons.
> 
> Other copper explorers are also up




If they were actually mining the stuff and not just exploring for it ,id agree


----------



## Dr Stock (22 August 2006)

> If they were actually mining the stuff and not just exploring for it ,id agree




Well if HGO CDU CQT all have copper in the ground and the strike causes copper to go up then maybe the market may think they are worth a little more.

I think crazyjim is right.


----------



## havingfun (22 August 2006)

yeah you could be right,but by the time cdu gets any copper out of the ground to actually sell, the strike in chile will have been over for 2 years


----------



## Dr Stock (22 August 2006)

really? 

somebody just asked why the price rose for the day. I gave a possible reason.

I couldn't care less what happens in two years.


----------



## havingfun (22 August 2006)

I agree with you with regards the strike would effect the share price of other suppliers of copper,what i dont get is how it effects those who are simply walking over copper 500m below ground,with no chance to sell any on inflated copper prices relating to the strike.


----------



## Dr Stock (22 August 2006)

havingfun said:
			
		

> I agree with you with regards the strike would effect the share price of other suppliers of copper,what i dont get is how it effects those who are simply walking over copper 500m below ground,with no chance to sell any on inflated copper prices relating to the strike.




True enough.


----------



## havingfun (22 August 2006)

Dr Stock said:
			
		

> True enough.





But then again ,theres a lot I dont get about the market.


----------



## tahpot (25 August 2006)

havingfun said:
			
		

> I agree with you with regards the strike would effect the share price of other suppliers of copper,what i dont get is how it effects those who are simply walking over copper 500m below ground,with no chance to sell any on inflated copper prices relating to the strike.




I agree - the volatility in CDU is mainly due to the expectations regarding the upcoming JORC announcement. I can't see the price of copper having much impact for another few years on CDU.


----------



## havingfun (28 August 2006)

Been 11 days , so more news may be soon.Normally preceeded with a bit of buying though..


----------



## havingfun (29 August 2006)

buying which has happened today,light vol,but a sign that another ann due i feel


----------



## havingfun (29 August 2006)

well ,started light buying,but then was really strong.Finished above 3.30


----------



## feeding_the_fire (29 August 2006)

Yes, I think we can expect an announcment within the week!


----------



## pharaoh (29 August 2006)

Absolutely, maybe tmrw, by the look of buying.
Who cares anyway, mid term view now, even though sept will be a huge announcement


----------



## havingfun (30 August 2006)

hit $3.51  , no news..


----------



## havingfun (1 September 2006)

flying today hit 3.85


----------



## pharaoh (1 September 2006)

good day for cdu, ann out soon methinks.
everyone pilling in, so they dont miss out.


----------



## pharaoh (3 September 2006)

I copy and pasted this from another site
*I think this is a very important read:*

Note sections about "*only scratching the surface, and "only done about 15,000 metres of drilling, the driller is contracted to 60,000 metres"
Strike length is currently 950mtrs -0 indicates will likely now be 1.5kms!!! etc*

It's good stuff, read and share your thoughts but I think this is gold (I mean copper

Exploration continues at CuDeco's Rocklands project
By Vicki Wilson

Friday, 25/08/2006

Copper explorer CuDeco has confirmed its original claims on the strike length of its Rocklands deposit near Cloncurry.

The company released new exploration results on Thursday August 17, and chairman Wayne McCrae says they've extended the strike of the mineralised zone to 950 metres. That's 50 metres more than what they inferred in the first place.

CuDeco shot into the limelight last month when it discovered rich veins of copper at the Rocklands site near Cloncurry in north-west Queensland.

Shares increased thirtyfold following news of the find and trading was halted at the company's request.

The Australian Stock Exchange expressed doubt over the size of the deposit, so CuDeco had to re-categorise the resource downwards before opening up again to the trade.

Now, a month later, *Mr McCrae says they've proven their original extrapolations*.

They're still drilling along their Las Minerale zone of mineralisation and *he says it keeps on getting bigger*.

"We've really only scratched the surface at the moment. *We've only done about 15,000 metres of drilling, the driller is contracted to 60,000 metres, so I guess at this stage we've only drilled a quarter of it, and it may prove that we've only drilled a tenth of it. It just seems to be getting bigger and we're finding new things."*

"We have about 100 targets that we haven't even started on yet, and at this stage we're just probably going to get a strike length to about one and half kilometres on Las Minerale, and then we're going to put some deep holes in under Rocklands which adjoins, and some deep holes under the Double Oxide as well.

"We'll probably finish the drilling for this next resource statement that we're *going to bring out around mid September*, so probably about the end of September we'll have a new resource - copper, cobalt and gold - and that will be in the category of measured, indicated and inferred."

So just how significant is this deposit at Rocklands?

Gavin Wendt, a senior resources analyst with Fat Prophets in Sydney, says it could prove to be much bigger yet and explains that it's not all about size.

"Mineralisation is one thing, having an economic ore body is another and there are a couple of important things. One, particularly the grade and how that's going to stack up. Secondly, I guess, the metallurgy and so far we haven't seen any mentions by Wayne or the company in regards to the metallurgy of the deposit."

"The company has been using cobalt as a by-product or as a secondary metal that they claim that they could extract in order to boost the overall recovered grade of the deposit. At this stage we don't know whether that is the case, whether they can successfully extract the cobalt so, if they can't, you know it would reduce the recoverable grade of the deposit and detract from the overall potential economics of the project."

Mr Wendt says the company might not have done any metallurgical test work yet.

"I think we'll get an idea over the next couple of months as to how this thing is all going to hang together".

In ABC news on Monday August 21 it was reported that law firm, Slater and Gordon, is investigating the possibility of suing copper explorer CuDeco.

When CuDeco first released news on its discovery in early July, its share price jumped from $3 up to $10 a week after the announcement.

A spokesman for Slater and Gordon says lawyers may launch a class action to recover investor funds lost when the share price later dropped.

Wayne McCrae says CuDeco had nothing to do with the stock's price.

"It was basically caused by market sellers selling short into the market - in other words selling stock they don't have and having to buy it back. What happens if the market keep moving forward then those short sellers have to get into the market and buy it back at a higher price so that was purely forced by short selling - it was completely of their own doing."

"When the stock market starts to move, it's basically outside the control of the company."

-----------------


----------



## havingfun (4 September 2006)

Has hit $4 a couple of times today


----------



## pharaoh (4 September 2006)

Don't say I didnt warn anyone   

Anyone else in, or just get on today?
Gotta be a good week of upward trading on the sp one would think

Go you good thing


----------



## havingfun (5 September 2006)

pharaoh said:
			
		

> Don't say I didnt warn anyone
> 
> Anyone else in, or just get on today?
> Gotta be a good week of upward trading on the sp one would think
> ...




Got more yesterday morning,seems its only me and you,maybe too many got burnt last time.They still seem interested in the EXTs @ 8c .Each to their own


----------



## feeding_the_fire (5 September 2006)

I got in at $3.40 and $3.08, so enjoying this ride too. Be interesting to see what happens! 

I wonder if the SP will push up towards $7.11 that it was at when it went into Trading Halt since it seems likely that the ann will confirm everything previously claimed plus more...

Unlikely to hit those giddy heights again I guess... but you never know! 

Enjoy!


----------



## havingfun (5 September 2006)

feeding_the_fire said:
			
		

> I got in at $3.40 and $3.08, so enjoying this ride too. Be interesting to see what happens!
> 
> I wonder if the SP will push up towards $7.11 that it was at when it went into Trading Halt since it seems likely that the ann will confirm everything previously claimed plus more...
> 
> ...




If the previous is confirmed and possibly more to come , those 'giddy heights' of 7.11 made CDU grossly undervalued[we only have 70mil shares , 100mil if u count options] makes a huge difference to eventual price.....we shall see


----------



## dubiousinfo (5 September 2006)

Keep in mind the old saying:  Buy the rumour ...sell the fact.

It may be that the best prices are found in the runup to the announcement & the SP actually falls after the annoucement.


----------



## havingfun (5 September 2006)

dubiousinfo said:
			
		

> Keep in mind the old saying:  Buy the rumour ...sell the fact.
> 
> It may be that the best prices are found in the runup to the announcement & the SP actually falls after the annoucement.




Thats a good point and worth keeping in mind...regardless of valuations a stock is only worth what people are prepared to pay for it


----------



## redandgreen (5 September 2006)

Trading Halt     where to from here


----------



## feeding_the_fire (5 September 2006)

Delays in the upcoming resource statement (originally due Sept) have seen the price drop...

Short term drop I reckon. Will bounce back up closer to announcment time I'd imagine.


----------



## YOUNG_TRADER (5 September 2006)

This thing almost ran to $5 today ? ? ? ? ?   

It was like $3 a few days back, there sure is a hell of alot of traders on this


----------



## feeding_the_fire (5 September 2006)

Don't worry! Looks like it's heading back to $3... sure is a bumpy ol' ride around here! 

Buying op perhaps...


----------



## muddywaters (5 September 2006)

feeding_the_fire said:
			
		

> Don't worry! Looks like it's heading back to $3... sure is a bumpy ol' ride around here!
> 
> Buying op perhaps...




More fun than Luna Park.  Should be called Climbdipco?


----------



## NettAssets (5 September 2006)

No news is NOT good news when it is in a Wayne McCrea ASX release


----------



## havingfun (5 September 2006)

Now that the day traders have done their nuts on this twice perhaps theyll look elsewhere


----------



## pharaoh (5 September 2006)

nothing changed, traders out til now, good buying op for sure
happy to be still in and holding

luck to holders...


----------



## barney (5 September 2006)

Hi there folks. I'm fairly new to all this, but I was wondering if anyone can explain to me whether the sp of CDU is a reasonable "assessment " of its value, and if so, how do you arrive at that conclusion. From a newbies point of view it seems that there are other Co.'s that have good apparent resouces but have a share price no where near CDU. Is there something I am missing?? Any enlightenment would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## pharaoh (5 September 2006)

barney, they could have one of the biggest copper finds in the country, or the world

Some think the sp could be as much as $15 or $20 once the mine is up and running etc

do some reading on the thread, and read the ann's
oh, and there's lots of sentiment too, so when the ann's come out, lots of liquidity and volatility etc


----------



## barney (6 September 2006)

Yeah thanks Pharoah. I have read most of the reports etc , including the one where the analyst predicted a $25 sp. (Unfortunately thats what enticed me to buy at around $7.60 before the trading suspension kicked in and i sold 3 days later at $2.37 losing thousands/and lots of thousands more!!!.........it looked like it was going to retrace back to where it started so I got spooked....I am a newbie so I have an excuse)  I make no gripe about it because I should have known better than to buy into something I knew nothing about, but I was really interested if anyone could give something more "concrete" on the sp value as opposed to the"speculative" value. Fair enough they have an inferred resource now of over the original 59MT but there are still other Co.s that seem to have "quality " resource amounts, yet their sp is nothing like CDU's. Once bitten twice shy for me, but for anyone who bought "at the right price" I hope you you all make a million........unfortuately for me CDU is an abbreviation for depression    Maybe: C razy D umb U neducated


----------



## feeding_the_fire (6 September 2006)

Looks like back to business as usual...

$3.84 as I speak. Take out the last couple of days when it all went a bit silly due to a few newspaper articles, and basically the stock is climbing gradually and slowly.

Normal programming is resumed... for now!


----------



## Prospector (6 September 2006)

feeding_the_fire said:
			
		

> Looks like back to business as usual...
> 
> 
> Normal programming is resumed... for now!




And normal for CDU is, well, anything goes! : 

I think the market is too reactive for this company - just go with the flow, do your research, ignore the lows (and highs) and maybe it will pan out.

I have a combo of low entry shares and high entry shares - was watching that mad Monday was it? in early July.  Have now sold some shares, havent quite worked out if I am better off selling the higher priced shares or the lower priced shares - depends on other CG's during the year I guess!


----------



## crayfish (6 September 2006)

pharaoh said:
			
		

> barney, they could have one of the biggest copper finds in the country, or the world




Sorry, I have to laugh...


----------



## scsl (6 September 2006)

I would have thought that CDU's sp would not be doing anything significant seeing that the resource statement is to be delayed by at least a month!

Maybe the market is excited by rumours that Wayne McCrae is in China seeking out investors...


----------



## Dr Stock (6 September 2006)

scsl said:
			
		

> I would have thought that CDU's sp would not be doing anything significant seeing that the resource statement is to be delayed by at least a month!
> 
> Maybe the market is excited by rumours that Wayne McCrae is in China seeking out investors...




The announcement yesterday was very good if anybody bothered to read it and read between the lines. The company is being very cautious about what it says in its releases. 

The magnetic survey points to even more resources being identified.


----------



## havingfun (6 September 2006)

crayfish said:
			
		

> Sorry, I have to laugh...





Ha,You wont be by Xmas time..


----------



## pharaoh (6 September 2006)

yeah crayfis, what was so funny
I said read ann's, dyor, etc
And it "could be" 

And it could, may not also, but looks great, everyone would have to agree...
You just never know, but at this stage, looks like a monster - hence all the money being thrown into it


----------



## barney (7 September 2006)

I'll ask again nicely.............  Any tech/analysis guys/gals out there. (not my strong suit)  Anyone prepared to actually put a figure on what "the facts" tell us that CDU sp is worth, or is everyone just hoping that all the hype is real??? ..........is anyone game to put their reputation on the line??  I admit to knowing very little about valuing a spec stock, but if copperco for example (CUO) (not CDU) is running at around 44 cents, that makes CDU worth 8 to 9 times more.....Does that seem reasonable???????? Please, somebody educate me!!! What am I missing??


----------



## havingfun (7 September 2006)

barney said:
			
		

> I'll ask again nicely.............  Any tech/analysis guys/gals out there. (not my strong suit)  Anyone prepared to actually put a figure on what "the facts" tell us that CDU sp is worth, or is everyone just hoping that all the hype is real??? ..........is anyone game to put their reputation on the line??  I admit to knowing very little about valuing a spec stock, but if copperco for example (CUO) (not CDU) is running at around 44 cents, that makes CDU worth 8 to 9 times more.....Does that seem reasonable???????? Please, somebody educate me!!! What am I missing??




Not sure what you really want,sounds like you want someone to blame in case you go on again and it drops.You can never be sure of the info you get on here or any forum,or who they are or profess to be.The warranty your looking for comes with a car not stocks.Suggest you search internet for past reviews,news articles, announcements.Mining news is good one to subscribe to. Or if you want to be sure employ your own mining analyist to do you a report on what is available.Otherwise put your money on again and hold your balls


----------



## barney (7 September 2006)

Hey Havingfun, No need to get defensive. Maybe my message conveyed the wrong vibe. Definitely not looking to blame anyone for anything!!. Fair enough I lost a lot on CDU, but that is what you get when you tread into territory you know nothing about...... I stuffed up, but I'm big enough and ugly enough (my wife says I'm not that ugly) to take it right on the beak.  So if my message sounded like I was looking for a scapegoat I apologise to all.  I hope you and everyone else holding CDU makes a motza. My question was meant to be sincere.........
I really would like to know how to better value the spec stocks be it CDU or any other.  And the reason I asked in this forum because I have seen people attempt to value other Co's relative to their resources before.   I appreciate the comments of all on this forum I am learning a lot. As  I said in an earlier post...If I had found this site a few months ago  I would be financially a lot better off........so Cheers to all and I'll make sure future posts dont seem like I have a chip on my shoulder which I certainly dont!!! Onward McDuff.


----------



## feeding_the_fire (7 September 2006)

Barney,

To put it simply, the SP should reflect the discounted future cash flows of the company - ie: what the company will earn in the future in terms of the value of money today.

The market will try to factor this into the share price, but at the moment it's difficult since people don't exactly know what the future cash flows will be. The way the SP of CDU is going up means that the market is inclined to believe that future cash flows will be very large… ie: that the upcoming announcement will reveal a huge find, and thus underpin future cash flows for the company. 

However, no one knows for certain what the announcement will be, so up until the announcement it's all purely speculation driving up the price. There's no way to truly value the SP until we have an announcement: the SP you see now is merely the market trying to guess the magnitude of the copper strike and what it will be worth to CDU.

Once the announcement comes out, it will be possible to value the SP realistically, and the market will adjust accordingly.

Also, it isn't valid to say "CDU's share price is $3.00 and CUO's is $0.50, therefore CDU is worth (overalll) 6 times more. Look at BHP and Rio… Rio's share price is 3 times larger than BHP - it doesn't mean BHP is smaller than Rio! Same with Telstra and CDU.. Do you serioulsy think Telstra and CDU are similarly valued companies? You need to take into account the total number of shares on offer and work out a Market Cap from that in order to compare sizes of companies.


----------



## havingfun (7 September 2006)

barney said:
			
		

> Hey Havingfun, No need to get defensive. Maybe my message conveyed the wrong vibe. Definitely not looking to blame anyone for anything!!. Fair enough I lost a lot on CDU, but that is what you get when you tread into territory you know nothing about...... I stuffed up, but I'm big enough and ugly enough (my wife says I'm not that ugly) to take it right on the beak.  So if my message sounded like I was looking for a scapegoat I apologise to all.  I hope you and everyone else holding CDU makes a motza. My question was meant to be sincere.........
> I really would like to know how to better value the spec stocks be it CDU or any other.  And the reason I asked in this forum because I have seen people attempt to value other Co's relative to their resources before.   I appreciate the comments of all on this forum I am learning a lot. As  I said in an earlier post...If I had found this site a few months ago  I would be financially a lot better off........so Cheers to all and I'll make sure future posts dont seem like I have a chip on my shoulder which I certainly dont!!! Onward McDuff.




Wasnt trying to be defensive, it was actually a little tongue in cheek...except the bit about hold your balls... anything that goes from 4.95 to 3.60 in a day requires faith,hope and a tight grip...Peoples valuation on all co. can vary widely..although the more you read here i think you'll be able to see those that simply ramp...


----------



## barney (7 September 2006)

Once the announcement comes out, it will be possible to value the SP realistically, and the market will adjust accordingly.

Thanks F the Fire,  I appreciate your comments.  I understand  it is all v speculative.  Is there any way of estimating what kind of revenue 60 million tonnes of copper could/will generate (assuming a reasonable % of Cu) Of course they may find another  100 million tonnes yet.  Hopefully for all you holders they do.  Also any concept of how long before any mining will take place? The bigger the resource I guess the likely hood of a takeover proposition as well? Cheers.


----------



## barney (7 September 2006)

havingfun said:
			
		

> Wasnt trying to be defensive, it was actually a little tongue in cheek...except the bit about hold your balls... anything that goes from 4.95 to 3.60 in a day requires faith,hope and a tight grip...Peoples valuation on all co. can vary widely..although the more you read here i think you'll be able to see those that simply ramp...





Yeah Cheers H/Fun.  Actually when CDU got caught in the trading halt/suspension thing a few weeks ago my balls were so far stretched that my arms would have had to been 12 foot long just to get a grip.   Wish I'd been able to hang on but I got spooked with the massive sp drop. Such is life.........at least my wife didnt divorce me..........almost grounds for it !!


----------



## feeding_the_fire (7 September 2006)

Not really my area of expertise, valuing copper finds, but I'm sure someone on here knows how! 

I would imagine once (if) the find is confirmed, you'd be looking at a year or least before anything happens regarding mining the stuff… I don't think that's really what's important though: getting it out isn't really the problem, it's finding the stuff in the first place! 

Yes.. Things like takeovers do complicate matters somewhat, but in general will only be good for the SP.

Sorry Barney.. Did you say you still held this? (Or thinking of?)


----------



## havingfun (7 September 2006)

barney said:
			
		

> Yeah Cheers H/Fun.  Actually when CDU got caught in the trading halt/suspension thing a few weeks ago my balls were so far stretched that my arms would have had to been 12 foot long just to get a grip.   Wish I'd been able to hang on but I got spooked with the massive sp drop. Such is life.........at least my wife didnt divorce me..........almost grounds for it !!




There is a guy on here 'ARCHINOS' works as a geologist, knows his ****,if you read anything of his its coming from a sound knowledge of the industry....


----------



## barney (7 September 2006)

feeding_the_fire said:
			
		

> Not really my area of expertise, valuing copper finds, but I'm sure someone on here knows how!
> 
> I would imagine once (if) the find is confirmed, you'd be looking at a year or least before anything happens regarding mining the stuff… I don't think that's really what's important though: getting it out isn't really the problem, it's finding the stuff in the first place!
> 
> ...




Held quite a lot just before the dreaded trading halt. Unfortunately I believed the news report about the share getting to $25 so I thought it was a "safe" bet (I was very green and bought towards the top of the market)  I held on for a couple of days after the plunge hoping for a rebound. I could see myself losing everything so I bailed out at around $2.40.   I wont tell you how much I lost but I' reckon I'd be in the running for the "biggest loser"  I know everybody out there who are experienced at trading will call me a fool (if the shoe fits I have to wear it)  but my intentions were good. Trying to make some extra cash to put my daughter thru Uni.....Bummer! Anyway not trying to give my life story...........I have found this site/forum helpful and will continue to "educate" myself before making any more undisciplined decisions. 
Anyway Cheers to all.


----------



## barney (7 September 2006)

havingfun said:
			
		

> There is a guy on here 'ARCHINOS' works as a geologist, knows his ****,if you read anything of his its coming from a sound knowledge of the industry....




Thanks, Will look him up.


----------



## feeding_the_fire (7 September 2006)

Sorry to hear that Barney.. you picked a volatile one to start off with! 

We all have stories like yours (GPE anyone? lol), and I guess all we can do is learn and figure out where we went wrong when we lost money.

Good luck!


----------



## havingfun (7 September 2006)

barney said:
			
		

> Held quite a lot just before the dreaded trading halt. Unfortunately I believed the news report about the share getting to $25 so I thought it was a "safe" bet (I was very green and bought towards the top of the market)  I held on for a couple of days after the plunge hoping for a rebound. I could see myself losing everything so I bailed out at around $2.40.   I wont tell you how much I lost but I' reckon I'd be in the running for the "biggest loser"  I know everybody out there who are experienced at trading will call me a fool (if the shoe fits I have to wear it)  but my intentions were good. Trying to make some extra cash to put my daughter thru Uni.....Bummer! Anyway not trying to give my life story...........I have found this site/forum helpful and will continue to "educate" myself before making any more undisciplined decisions.
> Anyway Cheers to all.




Barney , dont u worry mate most on hear have their own horror stories,look listen ,follow ur own rules.


----------



## NettAssets (7 September 2006)

Hi Barney

I really think you are trying to value an unknown.

There is no way to value these stocks fundamentally and no way to tackle it technically that will give more than a rough indication of which way it could go.

Trading in stocks like this is simply gambling - you know now that there would have been the same chance if you had taken the tution fees to the casino and wacked them all on black or red for one spin.
You ended up on 0 and at least got some back.

If the Market knew what CDU was worth it wouldn't be 6% different today than yesterday.

IGO and Freeballing seem to trade this sort of market OK so lets see if they can come back with some comments on this - I think the only way to trade this is to have your stake spread over a few that are volatile and get in and out in little bites. 

Regards
John


----------



## Freeballinginawetsuit (7 September 2006)

NettAssets said:
			
		

> Hi Barney
> 
> I really think you are trying to value an unknown.
> 
> ...






Sold out of them today.
The point with CDU is that you can make 100% on them SHORT, in months.
If you stay LONG you could quite easily make nothing.
Take the profits while they are their, CDU is still a Specky.


----------



## barney (7 September 2006)

Thanks for all for replies.  Its a steep learning curve, and I've got a lot of catching up to do. I have learnt 4 X more in the last month than I had in the previous 12 months.( Lots of that from reading this forum) At least now I dont go in blind. Who knows, in 10 years from now I might be able to say that losing a lot of money was the best lesson I could have had.............Man but what an expensive lesson  .........school was never this hard!!   At least my wife has forgiven me.............what a woman..........now I must go away and conjur up a cunning plan to get my money back.  Thanks Guys.


----------



## havingfun (7 September 2006)

barney said:
			
		

> Thanks for all for replies.  Its a steep learning curve, and I've got a lot of catching up to do. I have learnt 4 X more in the last month than I had in the previous 12 months.( Lots of that from reading this forum) At least now I dont go in blind. Who knows, in 10 years from now I might be able to say that losing a lot of money was the best lesson I could have had.............Man but what an expensive lesson  .........school was never this hard!!   At least my wife has forgiven me.............what a woman..........now I must go away and conjur up a cunning plan to get my money back.  Thanks Guys.





Check your private messages


----------



## NettAssets (7 September 2006)

Just catch a look at the headline of PTR's current ann.

It shows how hard it is for company directors to phrase an ann. and not create mayhem.
If WMc wrote a headline like that CDU would break the sound barrier- PTRs move  1c to .30


----------



## pharaoh (7 September 2006)

what a strange and intriging idea for energy, just read the ann
interesting


----------



## Archinos (8 September 2006)

Sorry if it's the wrong place for this but while the interest is here...
Would a quick go over PTR & the likes (GRK) be welcome (under PTR)?
I've been following these developments for a while (geology aspect) & might be able to flesh out some of that a bit more- what eludes me is the economics & SP potential. Got to go for a meeting so later....


----------



## pharaoh (11 September 2006)

Quiet few days for CDU, but steady share price which is great


----------



## BSD (12 September 2006)

How do the CDU punters feel about the granting of 7,000,000 more options to Wayne at $0.50?

These are valued at $3.80 each in the meeting notice

Is Wayne really worth another $26 million when he already owns 11 million shares?


This reflects poorly on management.

Surely if they believed so much in the project the oppies would at least be at the money

The shareholders can confirm 'mug status' by letting this through

With no insto money - Wayne may be about to get even richer


----------



## pharaoh (12 September 2006)

who cares as long as he brings in the goods
And he must be in my mind, if he is going ahead with these

only time will tell of course


----------



## ttnt (12 September 2006)

i think he is worth of those 28m, 
please note the recent annc, they mentioned 'Sub Audio Magnetics 
(SAM) ground geophysical survey ' to be interesting. 
Maybe there are some issues regards to those. 

Let time to prove...........................................


----------



## pharaoh (12 September 2006)

ttnt, can you explain further please
thanks


----------



## cuttlefish (12 September 2006)

Barney - as BSD pointed out somewhere much earlier in this thread, Net Present Value is a common approach to valuing mining companies. This basically discounts future cashflow back to todays value - theres an NPV function in excel.  

If you have a stab at a conservative resource estimate, work out some per tonne mining costs,  remember to do things like factor in recovery rates etc. as well,  spread it out over 10 or 15 years depending on how much you think they can pull out a year etc. and you'll get an annual net cashflow to plug into the NPV calcualtion.  

Then in that calculation decide on a discount rate (BSD suggest .15 in a previous post on here) and remember to factor in a lead time till mining (??? 3 years??? more?) and up front capital costs.  Also when converting your overall company value to a share value, remember to include/dilute for the options that company has on issue.  e.g. CDU has about 50 million shares but also about 50 million options that are well in the money so effectivley form part of the companies issued capital.    (and maybe another 10 million if the shareholders meeting approves the issue to the directors).

You'll find in tools like the comsec company research page show the market caps based on only issued listed shares, and not the options so do your own calcs on market cap for companies based on the issued capital information described in the companies recent appendix 3b announcements.

There's a feasability study somewhere amongst copper co's (CUO) recent ASX reports - look through that and you'll see the long term copper price they've used for the base case for the CUO feasability study, and also things like cost per lb estimates , capital costs for startup etc.   Remember to factor in exchange rates etc. as well.

What you'll find is that you end up with about 10 numbers you can tweak (including ore tonnage and grade) that will give you wildly varying values anywhere from $1 to $50.

Other ways to get some idea of potential value is to compare the ore size and grade to similar companies - copperco isn't a bad one to compare to I reckon - its a pure copper company, still a year away from production but also at least a year further along the path to production than CDU,  has relatively similar sorts of grades to what CDU are talking about etc. etc.   but they have a feasability study complete, various other agreements in place including financing,  a proper resource estimate etc.    Remember when comparing two companies you should be comparing they're fully diluted market capitalisation (i.e. not share price - because different companies have different amounts of issued capital so share price isn't a reflection of relative value unless you factor in the amount of shares each co has - i.e. market cap).

Look at how the market values them and to a pro-rata comparison to CDU based on what you think CDU's ore and grade will be - however remember CDU is still early days - they don't have anything more than an inferred JORC at the moment - no metallurgy, no finance, no indicated/measured reserves, no feasability study, no finance etc.

The big question mark is how much copper has CDU actually found - both in terms of tonnes of ore as well as the overall grade across the entire find.

As others have said, investing in companies at this stage is risky.

With any stocks you invest in, beware of ramping and price spikes - make your own decisions on a value - then be conservative - because even if its theoretically worth more the market might still not end up valuing them that way.

Remember as well that copper prices rise and fall, interest rates rise and fall, mine startup capital costs blow out as well as timeframes, etc. etc. so nothing is certain.

One piece of advice - if a stock has risen very strongly for a few days and volumes are high, its probably a risky time for a novice to enter it.   Another thing to get a handle on is stoplosses.  If you do decide to enter on a punt you need to set a stop loss to prevent the situation you had where you hold and hold until eventually panicking and selling at the bottom.

You'll find that emotions are the biggest factor to control in investing/trading - so having your own ideas on value, price, and - prior to entering a trade - knowing the conditions under which you'll buy and sell (both positive and negative) and then sticking to them are important.


----------



## barney (12 September 2006)

cuttlefish said:
			
		

> Barney - as BSD pointed out somewhere much earlier in this thread, Net Present Value is a common approach to valuing mining companies. This basically discounts future cashflow back to todays value - theres an NPV function in excel.
> 
> If you have a stab at a conservative resource estimate, work out some per tonne mining costs,  remember to do things like factor in recovery rates etc. as well,  spread it out over 10 or 15 years depending on how much you think they can pull out a year etc. and you'll get an annual net cashflow to plug into the NPV calcualtion.
> 
> ...





Hey Cuttlefish, Thank you for that great reply. At this stage I will need to a bit of research/study before I am up to speed with all of the detail but I certainly followed the basic concepts. There is a lot to learn about all these mining stocks, but time well spent I think.
Just as a matter of interest Re Your advice above on stop losses(I dont know whether I should post it here but it was certainly related to CDU in my case so Ill ask anyway)  For those who dont know, I did a very large sum of money on CDU cause I was a novice and bought in high just before the trading halt etc.etc.  As it went down just prior to halt I was also trying to "average down" (yeah I was doing everything wrong) ,thinking from what I had seen in the past few days it would automatically go back up almost immediately...right??...WRONG....Anyway my stupidity is history, and lots of people have pointed me in the right direction in that regard,(thanks again) but I am interested in anyones opinion on the fact that you can get "trapped" in a trade by a trading halt/suspension with little warning and no way of escape when the sp gaps as CDU did.(In my case over 50%)  A stop loss wouldnt have saved me in this instance as far as I  understand Is that true?   I would think that the ASX should have more "concrete" regulations with regard to trading halts. eg If a company intends to have a halt, I believe it should be announced during morning trade and not come into effect until close of trade that afternoon; that way all traders can go about their business and setup whatever positions they are comfortable with by the end of the days trading.  Now obviously I am still on "L" plates, but perhaps some of the more experienced traders here can give their opinions on whether that concept of trading halts would work, and be fairer all round??  PS If what I have suggested is basically dumb because of something obvious I am missing dont crucify me.........somebody has to ask dumb questions  (PS I'm not really that dumb at all.....just mentally challenged  :dunno: )


----------



## NettAssets (13 September 2006)

Hi Barney,

I don't think the idea of notified trading halts will work in the midst of a share spike or dump. The idea is to just stop trading and let the emotion get out of the way and a little sanity return.
I think you have to honestly ask yourself if you would have bailed out if you had known a trading halt was coming and the market was still pushing up or if you would have been caught up in the moment and raided the visa for a few more before it was too late cause that 20 gap up is going to happen as soon as the halt is lifted.   
I believe you said before that you got advice to buy when you did - if this is so and it was someone with as AFS licence then they are they ones that should be dumped on for not advising extreem caution in such a market.
John


----------



## cuttlefish (13 September 2006)

Barney, 

I pretty much agree with what netassets is saying - prior notification of an impending trading halt would probably not necessarily have had a positive effect on the situation and could in fact have caused an even bigger spike prior to the halt.   Unless you have a clear plan, prior to entering a trade, of how you are going to go about exiting it, then emotions are going to be the dominant factor in how you exit.  

A plan could have been as simple as - if it goes below $6 I'll sell. If it goes above $10 I'll sell. Otherwise I'll hold.

Or it could have been as complex as - I'll follow the course of sales and if I see the whachamy indicator cross the thingamy and do a fangionizzio retracement of more than 3.9% with volume increase greater than 40% while VWAP is below current price then I'll exit 30% of my position.

Either way, the challenge is sticking to it once you've entered though.

good luck with it.


----------



## Archinos (13 September 2006)

cuttlefish said:
			
		

> Barney,
> 
> ..Or it could have been as complex as - I'll follow the course of sales and if I see the whachamy indicator cross the thingamy and do a fangionizzio retracement of more than 3.9% with volume increase greater than 40% while VWAP is below current price then I'll exit 30% of my position...



Oh my god! Ha ha ha...


----------



## havingfun (13 September 2006)

Does anyone know if the diamond drill rig has arrived yet???


----------



## BSD (13 September 2006)

ttnt  said:
			
		

> i think he is worth of those 28m,







			
				pharaoh said:
			
		

> who cares as long as he brings in the goods
> And he must be in my mind, if he is going ahead with these
> 
> only time will tell of course





Only $28 million for a bloke who created the wonderful term "extrapolated resources" (?) - he probably should get more for that effort alone. 

Chip Goodyear, the CEO of a little metals play called BHP, had a USD$5m package in 2005. 


http://www.bhpbilliton.com/bbContentRepository/Reports/bhpb_ltd_concise_ar05.pdf

I think Wayne may turn out better at mining shareholders than copper

If he had any belief or respect for his shareholders - he would put a $4.00 strike on the options


----------



## havingfun (13 September 2006)

BSD said:
			
		

> How do the CDU punters feel about the granting of 7,000,000 more options to Wayne at $0.50?
> 
> These are valued at $3.80 each in the meeting notice
> 
> ...




You asked it ,they answered it , you dont like what they said.
As for 'chip' whoever calls himself that should be lucky anyone pays him at all.Is 'chip' a hands on guy,does he get his overalls dirty,did he find their tennaments ,explore and drill them?for 65k a year? Has he done this before and been screwed over by the big boys[oh no thats right he is one of the boys]or does he oversee an already established mining giant from his office chair.If BHP drops to $15 will 'chip' reduce his wage to 2.5mil or continue to claim his wage??You do have a valid point,but so does wayne.

PS god only knows how they could actually do this without insto money...nothing can happen without them...FMG


----------



## BSD (13 September 2006)

Without insto money Wayne sure as hell wont raise the hundreds of millions required to mine a decent copper reserve. 

Let alone anything that could actually be described as 'the copper find of the decade'. Have a look at how much Prominent Hill, Lumwana and Tampakan are going to cost. All multiples the size of Wayne's "extrapolated reserves"

FMG didnt get $3bn from mums and dads and Wayne is no Twiggy. 


My original point about instos is that anyone who was actually an investor and not a trader waiting for a bigger idiot, would not vote for Wayne to dilute them further at $0.50 or get $26million gifted to him. 

As I have said previously, anyone who is an investor would invest in the list of superior copper plays across the globe with market caps far below CDU and planned production many years before CDU could possibly sell anything from Rockfields. 

They would at least expect a hurdle wfor Wayne to enrich himself further.

Regardless of Waynes sob story, which was thrown out of court, nobody deserves $26m for sitting on a drill rig. 

I will happily drill for a year (by proxy of course) for $26m and anyone who paid me for it would be a goose. 

The bloke has $$$$millions$$$$ worth of stock already -the $60Kpa is a joke. 

If wearing a pair of overalls deserves $26 million, I am keen. But surely the owners/shareholders of CDU could get better value for money than having their 26 million dollar man on the back of a drill rig. 

Shouldnt he be finding financiers to fund an engineer/geo to do a feasibility study???

But it would take the fun out of it to see an NPV from someone not enriched with options


----------



## barney (14 September 2006)

NettAssets said:
			
		

> Hi Barney,
> 
> I don't think the idea of notified trading halts will work in the midst of a share spike or dump. The idea is to just stop trading and let the emotion get out of the way and a little sanity return.
> I think you have to honestly ask yourself if you would have bailed out if you had known a trading halt was coming and the market was still pushing up or if you would have been caught up in the moment and raided the visa for a few more before it was too late cause that 20 gap up is going to happen as soon as the halt is lifted.
> ...




Hi N/A, C/Fish, appreciate your comments..... Thinking about it, you are both right..........Especially the part about letting the market settle before entering.....That is probably the most valuable lesson Iv'e learned...........the old story........"If you play with fire, you're gona get burned"  (3rd degree in my case :evilburn: .....the banadages should be off by about the year 2010...lol)


----------



## barney (14 September 2006)

cuttlefish said:
			
		

> Barney,
> Or it could have been as complex as - I'll follow the course of sales and if I see the whachamy indicator cross the thingamy and do a fangionizzio retracement of more than 3.9% with volume increase greater than 40% while VWAP is below current price then I'll exit 30% of my position.






			
				cuttlefish said:
			
		

> Hey C/Fish, Wouldn't it be better if the whachamy indicator did not cross the thingamy until after the doovalacky showed signs of retracting to the whateveryoucallit?  Thats how it looked on my chart!  Cheers.


----------



## havingfun (14 September 2006)

BSD said:
			
		

> Without insto money Wayne sure as hell wont raise the hundreds of millions required to mine a decent copper reserve.
> 
> Let alone anything that could actually be described as 'the copper find of the decade'. Have a look at how much Prominent Hill, Lumwana and Tampakan are going to cost. All multiples the size of Wayne's "extrapolated reserves"
> 
> ...




You insto boys dont like or think anyone outside of BHP or RIO can own anything of significance,do you.He'll get his insto money ,but it wont be from AUST.If your keen to earn 26mil, get off your **** and go look,invest your time and money,live in a transportable....f.... mate you sound like the tax office ,dont risk or invest a cent,dont do any of the hard work,yet are pissed off when someone else does and profits from it..no-one is stopping you from potential riches just be prepared to risk all of your time and lose all your money.Not keen...didnt think so


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## Phantom_Trader (14 September 2006)

!  Geophyscial Survey increses target strike trend 
Announcement out a moment ago with results better than expected and the comment about unexpected similar results in surrounding area must also be investigated will make for a great day tomorrow!


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## pharaoh (14 September 2006)

Huge...

Total inferred Las Minerale minerlization strike length increased from 1200m to 3600 - goodness me!

The results are better than expected and note the mention of unexpected similar results in surrounding area

Double oxide (TIM) target strike increased to 2000m

Gold grades up 4 fold

GAP Geophysics presenting a full report in 2 weeks on the newly identified anomolies 

***** Nice - anyone else think this will run tomorrow


----------



## havingfun (14 September 2006)

Phantom_Trader said:
			
		

> !  Geophyscial Survey increses target strike trend
> Announcement out a moment ago with results better than expected and the comment about unexpected similar results in surrounding area must also be investigated will make for a great day tomorrow!



 mmmm, i can feel that insto money, we will even have yours BSD...


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## powerkoala (14 September 2006)

10 dolar baby.... yihaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa..............
now this time.. i wont let you go easily......


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## BSD (14 September 2006)

havingfun said:
			
		

> mmmm, i can feel that insto money, we will even have yours BSD...




Not on the basis of extrapolated resources/strike you wont.

Maybe in a couple of years when Wayne pays for a Bankable Feasibility Study. 

Even a Pre Feasibility would suffice - but that may cut the current market cap by a quarter.


Note the comment at the bottom of page 3. 

*
"However, no inference can be drawn at this stage that the mineralisation extends from the known mineralisation zones along strike."*

Last time he drilled along the 'extrapolated strike' DORC110 he got low grades. But they reckon they missed (too far west and too shallow). 


I hope you make a motza tomorrow chief. 

Good on you. You are truly a sage investor.  

Holding for production I hope. 

What is your valuation?


I love seeing small miners come to production and make everyone involved money. 

My problem here relates to the hype, lies and ineptitude. The issuance of millions of options at massive discount have capped my dislike for the management of this company. It would be a shame if this type of activity leads to people being turned away from backing explorers. 


Here is an example of what is required for a decent pit

http://www.oxiana.com.au/_data/docs/announcements/2006/prominent hill update_approval.pdf

Only AUD$775m 


If you let Wayne get all those oppies - he could finance it himself


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## havingfun (14 September 2006)

How come would be,could be,maybe ,seems ok for Chevron in the gulf[50% of reserves] even though it is beyond current production capabilities and maybe for another 50 yrs


----------



## Dr Stock (14 September 2006)

Havingfun I think BSD is awfully jealous about not being on the back of this.


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## booga82 (14 September 2006)

Everyone knows its all hype with no substance. Fortunately, in the short run, "hype" is the fastest way to make money. 

PS- does anyone know what inferred resources look like. I think I found some in my backyard.


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## BSD (14 September 2006)

If you believe in it enough guys - it might come true. 

But rather than providing very humour laden and thought-out views on your perceptions of me; why not enlighten me with your valuations of CDU and how much Wayne is worth?


----------



## havingfun (14 September 2006)

BSD said:
			
		

> If you believe in it enough guys - it might come true.
> 
> But rather than providing very humour laden and thought-out views on your perceptions of me; why not enlighten me with your valuations of CDU and how much Wayne is worth?



Why not try hotcopper.com ,or consulting relevant professionals with regards CDUs value.Try it based on the 25mil ton revised estimate.Ive had several done, its not that difficult.


----------



## BSD (14 September 2006)

*Why not try hotcopper.com ,or consulting relevant professionals with regards CDUs value.Try it based on the 25mil ton revised estimate.

Ive had several done, its not that difficult.*


Sure you have. 

Did the estimate of value on 25m/t come anywhere near $5.00??? 

Mine didn't 

Why not lay one example out for us and stop being so secretive?

If it is confidential - at least name the firm/analyst. 

Relevant professional on HotCopper I presume?

Which independent analyst said Wayne is worth granting 7m oppies at $3.50 in the money?


----------



## havingfun (14 September 2006)

BSD said:
			
		

> *Why not try hotcopper.com ,or consulting relevant professionals with regards CDUs value.Try it based on the 25mil ton revised estimate.
> 
> Ive had several done, its not that difficult.*
> 
> ...



You know you would have to be contender for 'tool 'of the month.If youve got your own valuations why dont you post them. I'm not saying what they're worth, way too much of that on this site, some call it ramping. The relevent professionals dont come from hotcopper.com its just a good resourse. As for ur real bug bear, waynes 7m options, the same independent analyst also said that you're an oxygen stealer...he may be right


----------



## canny (14 September 2006)

Don't want to join in any of your scraps on here tonight - but ladies - this is a beautiful ann.  
It doesn't get much better - and make no mistakes, this will be a world class copper mine in the next 5-10 years. In the meantime, the resources are blowing them away. You now have gold to add to the decent and some very good copper grades, and they have uranium which they aren't even THINKING about working out at the moment.
Book your flights to the Isa - but pre-book your hire car - there will be a shortage at meeting time!!!!


----------



## Dr Stock (15 September 2006)

> Don't want to join in any of your scraps on here tonight - but ladies - this is a beautiful ann.




Well said Canny!

BSD please save the jealous whinning for the Sydney Morning Herald, or maybe the good comrades over at Resistance, or maybe even the GreenLeft Alliance.

It's a little insulting and annoying as people come here to gain helpful information so that me may make money from investing and speculating.

I speak for myself but I am pretty sure most people would agree.


----------



## Porper (15 September 2006)

havingfun said:
			
		

> Why not try hotcopper.com ,or consulting relevant professionals with regards CDUs value..




Hotcopper and the word "professional" should not be used in the same sentence.Most on there are just gamblers with little or no knowledge whatsoever about technical or fundamental analysis.

Unfortunately as ASF grows we are bound to get some of those gamblers coming over here trying to get hot tips and inside info which they think is the holly grail.

Anyway had my moan.


----------



## krisbarry (15 September 2006)

Now, now, nasty girls...someone just stole my lipstick and my boyfriend...


----------



## muddywaters (15 September 2006)

Stop_the_clock said:
			
		

> Now, now, nasty girls...someone just stole my lipstick and my boyfriend...




I think Having Fun must of "had some rum" last night to come out fighting like this.  Buyers already stacked up this morning...let's just enjoy this guys.


----------



## havingfun (15 September 2006)

muddywaters said:
			
		

> I think Having Fun must of "had some rum" last night to come out fighting like this.  Buyers already stacked up thismorning...let's just enjoy this guys.



Yes,perhaps a little too aggresive,but no rum involved.


----------



## powerkoala (15 September 2006)

looks like the ride only for 20% max today.
can't be blame while all the board red


----------



## Joe Blow (15 September 2006)

That's enough of the profanity and insults please. Two posts have been removed from this thread, don't give me a reason to remove any more.

Now back on topic please gentlemen.


----------



## havingfun (15 September 2006)

Joe Blow said:
			
		

> That's enough of the profanity and insults please. Two posts have been removed from this thread, don't give me a reason to remove any more.
> 
> Now back on topic please gentlemen.



Apologies,I think that was me.


----------



## canny (15 September 2006)

Well, the day itself was rather disappointing. I thought it would have held a slightly higher position.
Nevertheless, it's still another green day, and if they keep coming, we'll creep up regularly and hopefully those slow creeps will be more sustainable than the wham bam thank you ma'm days!
It's still all unfolding, but I am going to remain VERY bullish on it - especially as the drawings and joining the dots is taking the acreage furhter and further afield. The area of resource is amazing.
Let's keep the steady creeping going.
Cheers
Have a good weekend all!


----------



## Dr Stock (15 September 2006)

> especially as the drawings and joining the dots is taking the acreage furhter and further afield. The area of resource is amazing.




If you ask me it doesn't make sense. The market should have recognised the three fold increase by atleast a 100% increase in the share price.

Very odd.

And like Canny has said, it just keeps getting bigger and bigger.

People on other forums are as confused as I am.


----------



## havingfun (15 September 2006)

Dr Stock said:
			
		

> If you ask me it doesn't make sense. The market should have recognised the three fold increase by atleast a 100% increase in the share price.
> 
> Very odd.
> 
> ...



No need to be confused doc.the resourse update with the diamond holes is needed to prove it up,with proper grades and metalurgy. Then you'll have a better idea of what theyre dealing with .Any ann. till then is window dressing.


----------



## pharaoh (18 September 2006)

A valuation attempt from Trade4profit, for those who don't know him, he has been very accurate in predicting or calculating movements and values of CDU over the last few months, and even got his name in the papers. 

From the shark pool, HC
(Sorry, image was too big to attach)

__________________________

From my hc post, for those who may not have seen it...

---

Las Minerale strike is about 3.6km long...

Give or take a billion dollars or so!

But even the slightest bit of luck with future targets (as generated from the recent SAM survey)...CDU may well be looking at up to 12km of mineralised strike from various targets throughout the tenement (maybe even more?)

Indulge me for a minute...

12,000m (srike) x
50m (width) x
500m (depth) x
3.7 (sg)...
= 1,110,000,000 tonne rsource

Assume 1% Cu average = 11,100,000 tonnes contained Cu

Thas an in-situ value of $111 billion dollars

lol...now I finally have a high side figure to be proud of!

Clearly this is pie in the sky stuff...but just 6 months ago, had you told me CDU would be sitting on a near 100m tonnes resource today (1,400x350x55x3.7=99.7m), I would have said you were dreaming.

Anyway...it is clear form the SAM survey they have enough targets here to be drilling for years...lol...and still not find all there is to find. Perhaps they should simply carpet drill the entire tenement?

Anyway, here is an image of the recent SAM survey, overlayed on the tenement...updated to current information, with a bit of "guestimated interpretation" thrown in by me..

Seems our original plans were out due to various coordinate variations (not adjusted for true versus magnteic north)...the current lot a pretty close, but still may need adjustment once on-site, survey referenced photography comes to hand.

Cheers!


----------



## Archinos (18 September 2006)

pharaoh said:
			
		

> A valuation attempt from Trade4profit, ...Las Minerale strike is about 3.6km long...
> 
> ..CDU may well be looking at up to 12km of mineralised strike from various targets throughout the tenement (maybe even more?)
> 
> ...



Yeah Pharaoh
just a few comments:
I checked out last weeks announcement with the drill hole & SAM plots - picked on holes 140, 122, 142 as representative holes with a little rock descptn & did some rough trig calculations (with a few assumptions...) to just get my head ard possible geomtry of mineralised horizons, whether the main imaged 'targets' (purple zones) really do correlated roughly with the fat mineralised horizons intersected in the drilling etc. Seeing dolerite in hole 140 made me think 'is the SAM was picking up stringers or bands of these mafic dolerites as opposed to ore zones in the stratigraphy?' (the SAM cannot distinguish rock types, it's only delineating conductive vs non conductive zones) but decided on the limited info that in this case (Las Minerale) it didn't matter since the dolerite is in the mineralised zone anyway...to cut a long story short surface position of max SAM intensity correlates well enough with (multiple) horizons intersected at depth= reasonable level of confidence that for at least Las Min & Double Oxide, the SAM is probably picking up mineralised zone. The area sure looks juicy and I have no additional info, but here's a bottom end calc using the above method for a bit of perspective:
assume there's at least 3000m of mineralisation in both Las Min & DO (that can be reasonably guessed from current drilling & SAM); widths are all over the place, but conservatively assume at least 30 m of economic grade material; drilling intersects mineral horizon max depth at ard 273m in an inclined hole, say ard 240m vertical depth (I don't know the angle), so blow the total economic zone down to ard 300m depth (unless there's an almight big structure cutting the zone off at depth, it'll probably go much deeper...); specific gravity (sg) of av crustal rock is ard 2.7-3 (3.7 is v.high, is this the figure typically used- where did he get that?) so assume 2.8 sg. Assume 1% Cu and Cu A$MetricT $9900 there abts. CDU shares ard 75 mill (is that right?).
3000X30X300X2.8= 75 600 000 MetricT, @ 1% CU=75600MetricT 
@ A$9900= A$748 440 000 @ 75mill shares = minimum $9.97 of Cu ingrd value per share or there abts (not taking account of costs) following method quoted by pharaoh... does that sound reasonable?


----------



## havingfun (18 September 2006)

Archinos said:
			
		

> Yeah Pharaoh
> just a few comments:
> I checked out last weeks announcement with the drill hole & SAM plots - picked on holes 140, 122, 142 as representative holes with a little rock descptn & did some rough trig calculations (with a few assumptions...) to just get my head ard possible geomtry of mineralised horizons, whether the main imaged 'targets' (purple zones) really do correlated roughly with the fat mineralised horizons intersected in the drilling etc. Seeing dolerite in hole 140 made me think 'is the SAM was picking up stringers or bands of these mafic dolerites as opposed to ore zones in the stratigraphy?' (the SAM cannot distinguish rock types, it's only delineating conductive vs non conductive zones) but decided on the limited info that in this case (Las Minerale) it didn't matter since the dolerite is in the mineralised zone anyway...to cut a long story short surface position of max SAM intensity correlates well enough with (multiple) horizons intersected at depth= reasonable level of confidence that for at least Las Min & Double Oxide, the SAM is probably picking up mineralised zone. The area sure looks juicy and I have no additional info, but here's a bottom end calc using the above method for a bit of perspective:
> assume there's at least 3000m of mineralisation in both Las Min & DO (that can be reasonably guessed from current drilling & SAM); widths are all over the place, but conservatively assume at least 30 m of economic grade material; drilling intersects mineral horizon max depth at ard 273m in an inclined hole, say ard 240m vertical depth (I don't know the angle), so blow the total economic zone down to ard 300m depth (unless there's an almight big structure cutting the zone off at depth, it'll probably go much deeper...); specific gravity (sg) of av crustal rock is ard 2.7-3 (3.7 is v.high, is this the figure typically used- where did he get that?) so assume 2.8 sg. Assume 1% Cu and Cu A$MetricT $9900 there abts. CDU shares ard 75 mill (is that right?).
> ...




Its good to get some balance..except that you can safely assume they have 100mil shares ,with the options left to exercise and that 10 mil directors options will be hard to stop as I feel the majority of other shareholders may well be his mates!!!!! So your figures need a little more dilution....and some diamond holes would be nice.Cant see the update being out before the vote.I dont know how long it takes to drill the holes they need and be assayed ,but as the rig is not on site I think you assume it wont be done by vote time.I feel we will get more drill results but its not what we want


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## BSD (18 September 2006)

A mine this size costs at least USD500m now and in five-ten years time when first production could take place it will cost at least USD0.70 per pound to produce. 

This would take a big chunk out of the bullish $4lb spot copper price in that model. 

No one in their right mind would subscribe $500m of equity at current prices - but even assuming $300m of debt - you could still assume total shares on issue will eventually be a MULTIPLE of the 100m floating around at the moment. 

If Wayne keeps issuing stock like confetti to himself, who knows how many could be on issue at production? 

Most companies with a pumped up price like this would do a placement. 

Which broker will put their name to an issue of CDU above $4?


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## cuttlefish (18 September 2006)

Archinos - thanks for the post - interesting to hear a reasoned perspective.

The 3.7 sg figure is the figure that was used in the updated 17 July JORC announcement.  Widths used in that announcement were 45m.

I know nothing about this stuff but can you speculate on any reason that might justify them using this higher (3.7) sg figure vs the 2.7 - 3 figure you suggest? (just wondering if there might be some geological feature that could have caused them to use a high figure or are they just being optimistic).

Another thing is the width's they've used (45m) do seem a little high vs recent drilling, though if the recent deeper holes -140,141,142 show mineralisation across the widths they've indicated then maybe its reasonable.

Grades are going to be the interesting factor, because part of the attraction of the initial announcements were the high grades being intersected over wide zones - obviously higher grades translate to a much more economical mining prospect. The grades in recent holes haven't been as high as the earlier grades found in the original Las Minerale holes - though there have still been large intersections of high grade (e.g. 30m down hole of 3%). My limited understanding is that a lot of the recent holes are 'locator holes' and so a bit more hit and miss and then they've followed up with more targeted holes (i.e. like 140,141,142 mentioned above) that it states have intersected large down hole widths of mineralisation.  When the assay results from these come back I'm assuming it will give an idea of how grades are going as they move along the strike zone.

One other comment - I think you're out by a zero in the in-ground contained copper estimate - you've got 75M tonnes of ore @ 1% would give 750,000 not 75,000 tonnes of contained Cu (10 times as much).   So translates to approx $100/share in-ground value on your calculations - though as stated by having fun, would be lower based on dilutions (about $70/share).  

(and of course in ground vs discounted NPV value of recovered ore after production costs, averaged at long term copper prices and after taking up-front capital costs into account is a massive difference - I've done sums under various scenarios - but the inground face value figures still probably explain some of the excitement over this stock).

To me though its still all about the grades. If we look at URL - large contained resource but at marginal grades and their BFS didn't come back brilliantly.  Grades over 1.2% overall would be fantastic, the 1.6% used in the original JORC would be even better but on current drilling I think unlikely - but who knows what grades they will hit on future drilling.


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## pharaoh (18 September 2006)

Archinos, nice quality info post. 
That's one of the things I like about this site over say HC, it's more involved discussion and not "yeah go abc, go" with no fundamental intelligence behind it

I am no miner, consider me learning, and a collector of info on cdu

I am extremely bullish on CDU, and my amateur opinion of the stock is that the grades will be good, not 3% the whole way through, but hey they will be higher than normal, and the size of the find will be massive, and continue to grow, as they keep running pilot holes and keep extending the strike zone more and more

This will mean a massive economical mine will be possible
I am finding it hard to value though, is there a basic process of valuation that can be followed now, based on what we know

A few opinions already - so cuttlefish are you saying roughly $70 per share before costs, based on the numbers we've all thrown around

As they say, I know we shouldn't try to value explorers before getting concrete values, but I think it is important to try and do so here, and debate the possibilities of what could be a monster

cheers


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## cuttlefish (18 September 2006)

pharaoh said:
			
		

> A few opinions already - so cuttlefish are you saying roughly $70 per share before costs, based on the numbers we've all thrown around




No - I'm definitely not saying that.  All I'm saying is that is the contained copper value per share of Archinos's speculation on a possible hypothetical resource.

The value of this stock depends on a whole variety of factors from capital startup costs, dilution for capital raisings, NPV discount rate used, mine life and annual production, per lb production costs, long term copper price, grade, recovery rates, the lead time to mine startup, and of course the big one - the actual resource size which depends on length, depth, width and grade. These are all variables which need to be considered to come up with a valuation.  I don't think anyone at this point in time could provide an accurate valuation with what we know at this stage so any valuation is speculation - but all of the factors mentioned would make the stock value much less than the face value of the contained in-ground resource.


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## Archinos (19 September 2006)

Thanks guys
I had to run out the door last night so my post was a little rushed - sorry if the decimal was put in the wrong place but I thought it was a worth while exercise...
Some thoughts on the sg value: typical text book values
earths crust 2.82
pure magnetite 5.2
basalt 2.74 - gabbro 2.95 (mafic rocks- Mg&Fe bearing=heavy)
granite 2.66
It would seem that the value 3.7 is v.high - I assumed typical crustal rock makeup with some room for mafic intrusions (the dolerite), but even accounting for some sulphides 3.7 still seems too high. It may be that they conducted some geophysical modelling on some gravity data across the prospect & 3.7 was the value they used (model values are 'relative' to eachother- while the values plugged in might start out with standard rock values, the modelling & drive to have a geometry 'pop out' at the end of the process starts to dictate what values are finally used). Otherwise we could be cynical and suggest that the larger value was used to 'beef up' the tonnage...
I admit what I posted was off the cuff - back of the envelope stuff, but I was shooting for a minimum ballpark estimate (taking a lot of what they've got at face value and then cutting back - as cfish & co. point out there are heaps of other factors which will determine whether or not the project will be economic). Based on what has been released however, to use 12km of strike length, no matter how juicy it may look, is way way out there (as was admitted...).


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## YOUNG_TRADER (26 September 2006)

Any CDU followers heard of a new float called Beacon Minerals?


One of its tennements in North Qld near CDU is meant to be geologically similar ie large 50-100m intercepts of 1% Copper + Moly credits

Deciding if to put in for IPO,

Comments appreciated


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## petal (26 September 2006)

Re other company floats and Cuduco, there were two references to Cuduco in last Saturday's Australian one in a possible takeover column mentioning it continues to rise and the other headed Nearology alluding to companies infering Olympic Dam possibilities  and that a new IPO WAS PLANNED FOR A COMPANY WITH TENEMENTS IN THE MT ISA - CLONCURRY REGION CLAIMING PROXIMITY TO CEDUCO 'S SIGNIFICANT FIND.
The same article said that the geologist who has been advising on Ceduco ASX releases has now adopted a more positive tone in respect to latest release.
Over the past week there have been some buying orders of 100,000 and an undeclared buying order ie.  where the quantity is not stated- interesting eh?
Sorry I can't quote verbatim from the Australian but had to return it to my daughter.


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## cuttlefish (26 September 2006)

Echelon is going to float their subsiduary that has a lot of tenements in the area, including the ground adjacent to EXS's which is SE of Rocklands. The subsiduary is called Sovereign resources - will be on a 4 for 5 priority placement to existing ech shareholders.


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## petal (27 September 2006)

When buying or selling how does one place an order so you do not disclose the quantity you wish to buy or sell so as not to flood the market? Would be grateful for advice as I have a substantial holding in cdu which I may wish to unload in the future. Thanks


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## feeding_the_fire (6 October 2006)

Anyone know why this one is retreating southwards at a rapid rate of knots?

Related to falling copper prices, or something else?

THought?


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## petee (6 October 2006)

feeding_the_fire said:
			
		

> Anyone know why this one is retreating southwards at a rapid rate of knots?
> 
> Related to falling copper prices, or something else?
> 
> THought?



One thing u forget..this stock headed north at "rapid" rate on speculation only..not production so anyone would expect a major correction..watch this drop more I think and in fact I wouldnt be buying this stock anywhere at these ridiculous levels..my opinion only guys


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## petee (6 October 2006)

petal said:
			
		

> When buying or selling how does one place an order so you do not disclose the quantity you wish to buy or sell so as not to flood the market? Would be grateful for advice as I have a substantial holding in cdu which I may wish to unload in the future. Thanks



"flood the market" hehe what is your holding..in excess of 10million shares..hmmm if u have a large holding that u bought long ago at cheap levels then the old saying is..dont be too greedy hehe


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## canny (9 October 2006)

You might be interested in todays latest broker report.
Might explain some of the buying.  

Speaking to MiningNews.net on the sidelines of the Excellence in Mining and Exploration conference in Sydney, Dawes said his updated net present values on CuDeco were similar to those in his earlier report, which while never released, was widely touted in newspaper articles during CuDeco's incredible July share price run.

"I was hoping to have it here today but I haven't finished it," he said.

Dawes said the $25 per share valuation attributed to CuDeco in the earlier report – when CuDeco was trading around $2/share – was conservative, and the lowest of three valuations based on different scenarios. 

"I actually had three targets, the initial was $25 [per share], the second was $45, the third was $64. I said [to the journalist] ignore all those, work on the basis we've got 100 million tonnes … at 2% copper, that's 2 million tonnes contained copper. 

"At the time the price was $US7000 per tonne, which would have made that a $US14 billion in-ground value, or $18 million Australian. Then you've got to ask how much capital is required, how much in operating costs, interest costs, tax etcetera and what does the NPV come up to? You've got $18 billion, and I've come down to $2.5 [billion]. That's pretty conservative to me." 

Dawes was critical of the Australian Stock Exchange, which forced CuDeco into a trading halt and a halving of the project's resource statement after the shares had run to $10 in early July.

Dawes said a site visit by the exchange's representatives would have helped them understand the calculations used by CuDeco.

"If he'd been there, he would have had a different view," Dawes said.

"I've been to site and I believe the scope of the project is enormous. I think we will wind up with well over 100Mt at Las Minerale, and I'm sure we'll wind up with another resource, possibly the same size, at Double Oxide.

"This is potentially just huge."

Dawes – whose Martin Place Securities is a major shareholder of CuDeco – also defended the options packages of the company's directors, under which numerous in-the-money options have been issued.

Dawes said the packages were decided when the company was trading at 22c/share, and as a result were fair.


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## canny (9 October 2006)

But wait - there's more!!  

Cudeco is nominated for the mining discovery award at the excellence in mining and exploration awards..
must be quite a few people who think there is copper out there.


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## BSD (9 October 2006)

canny said:
			
		

> "I was hoping to have it here today but I haven't finished it," he said.
> 
> Dawes said the $25 per share valuation attributed to CuDeco in the earlier report – when CuDeco was trading around $2/share – was conservative,
> 
> ...




Laughable

My personal favourite is the fact he has identified the definitive $25 per share NPV but hasn't (three months later) finished his research piece. 

"I havent finished my research note - but I have three target prices and think Wayne should issue himself $30million worth of stock. "

What is this bloke valuing BHP and Oxiana at?

Or does he only specialise in companies his 'research' house is set in?


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## JoshyJ (13 October 2006)

Ummm im in shock that noone has even said anything about today's article in the AFR, about Cudeco.


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## beach (13 October 2006)

gday josh what did it say mate, i live way out bush no one ear mate herd of AFR let alone CDU. regards beach


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## sleeper88 (13 October 2006)

anyone want to post the article up?..


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## BSD (13 October 2006)

JoshyJ said:
			
		

> Ummm im in shock that noone has even said anything about today's article in the AFR, about Cudeco.




Shock?

Nobody who is long wants to acknowledge that Wayne and his spiv mates accidentally ramped the stock way beyond the $1 they needed to get the oppies in the money and now it looks like a massive (instead of a minor) scam. 

Heck, a lot of punters still reckon Wayne deserves the $30m worth of in the money oppies.


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## crazyjimsmith (13 October 2006)

The Cudeco thread went dead here which made me even more suspicious.

I would love to hear what the owners of this website know. 

I have put up a few warnings on my forum.


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## JoshyJ (13 October 2006)

Anyone able to summarise it for others? 

Too much info for me to summarise, except to say it was a huge manipulation scam.


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## JoshyJ (13 October 2006)

This seems to be the one.
how day traders fuelled a $1bn frenzy
Author: Neil Chenoweth
Date: 13/10/2006
Words: 3345
Publication: The Financial Review
Section: News
Page: 1

Some investors clocked up heavy losses the day copper hopeful Cudeco briefly became a billion-dollar enterprise. But Neil Chenoweth reveals how others made millions.

In the frenzied moments at the top of the Cudeco share spike, a hapless computer operator at Aequs Securities keyed in a buy order for 5000 shares "at market".

At 10.24am on July 5 this year, the Australian Stock Exchange SEATS computer system matched the Aequs buy order with four separate sellers, including two at $10 a share.

Bingo. In half an hour the market value of Cudeco - then known as Australian Mining Investments - had jumped $500 million. For several thousandths of a second on that day, Wayne McCrae's little copper hopeful was a billion-dollar enterprise. Then the fall began.

By the time the ASX suspended Cudeco at 10.58am, $51 million of stock had changed hands. It was the worst day for Australia's day traders since the tech crash. With Cudeco suspended, the traders at CommSec and E*Trade were forced to pay out between $8 million and $32 million for newly bought shares that they had planned to on-sell well before the three-day settlement deadline, only to see their new shares dive to $2.55 when trading resumed on July 17 before closing at $3.56.

Since then the stock has struggled to break $4.

Cudeco chairman McCrae was one of the winners. Seven minutes after Cudeco hit $10 on July 5, McCrae sold his first parcel of options for $56,000. He raised another $2 million selling more options after the suspension was lifted.

His remaining shares are worth $44 million, and next Monday shareholders will vote to ratify a further $35 million in options that he and the two executive directors awarded themselves for their good work.

Meanwhile, the day traders' chat sites and online forums in July were a world of pain. Who was responsible for this mess?

The wild price surge didn't happen by accident, McCrae announced. It was the product of short selling by "opportunistic traders and market makers to cover their positions", which he had reported to the ASX.

But investigations by The Australian Financial Review suggest the picture wasn't that simple. Fateful decisions by a much wider cast of players left Cudeco facing the perfect storm.

The most aggressive trading in the last days before the July 5 suspension was by Cudeco sponsoring broker Aequs Securities, previously known as Hudson Securities. Several Perth brokers were also supportive. However, it is also possible that the share squeeze may have been inadvertently produced by Cudeco's own actions.

A former chairman of Hudson Securities, David Sutton, is now executive chairman of corporate advisory group Martin Place Securities, which claims to hold 20 per cent of Cudeco stock and which produced a bullish draft report on the company, reported in a national newspaper, that valued the shares at $25.

Earlier this week, Barry Dawes, author of the Martin Place draft, told a trade journalist that he was about to release a revised version of his report that repeated the previous forecasts.

There are also questions over the role of several influential contributors to online investor forums, most notably HotCopper, who spruiked Cudeco stock and provided detailed information about the company and claimed to have been briefed by brokers.

An Australian Securities and Investments Commission inquiry into the Cudeco trading is continuing. A more immediate issue is how well the safeguards put in place to protect small investors are working.

The online forums had a critical importance because the Cudeco share price, like many in the small-stocks sector, was driven by day traders.

"There are 20,000 day traders out there, each with access to at least $50,000 credit," says a senior market figure. "The daily turnover makes a lot of money for the ASX."

It represents $1 billion of highly mobile capital. When it moves, the market takes notice. But how to get the day traders' notice?

An AFR study of 14,000 share and option trades between June 1 and July 5 - and 5000 postings on investment forums - shows that day traders at CommSec and E*Trade accounted for 40 per cent of the buying for the period. Day traders were buyers or sellers in two out of every three trades by number and by value.

What followed left everyone who invested up to July 3 very rich - and beggared almost everyone who bought in after that. E*Trade investors bought early and made a mint. CommSec clients lost their shirts.

But how did it start?

The saga began with a board meeting of Australian Mining Investments on May 29. McCrae and the two executive directors, Timothy Koitka and Peter Hutchison decided to change the company's name to Cudeco. As McCrae explained later, it was short for Copper discovery of the Decade Company.

Then the three directors awarded themselves 10 million options to be exercised at 50?. The current share price was 31?. It's these options that shareholders will vote on next Monday after the Australian Securities and Investments Commission forced Cudeco to defer an earlier vote, arguing that shareholders were not fully informed.

Cudeco was in a delicate position. In the previous year, the company's advisers, Martin Place Securities, Hudson Securities and State One Stockbroking Ltd, had raised $3.8 million for the company, in the course of issuing 60 million shares and options.

Martin Place is a boutique corporate advisory business. It is not listed by the ASX as a stockbroker and deals for clients via E*Trade.

It is run by former analyst Barry Dawes and executive chairman David Sutton. Six years ago, Sutton was chairman of the Hudson Investment group, which at the time controlled Hudson Securities.

In 2000, Sutton and other Hudson Investment directors and group companies signed an enforceable undertaking with ASIC to improve corporate governance after the Australian Stock Exchange referred allegations of suspect share trading by a related party.

Hudson Securities changed its name to Aequs Securities last year. Its website says that it is no longer connected with Hudson Investment.

By last May, almost half of Cudeco's equity was held by clients of Martin Place and Aequs, although the outdated Top 20 shareholders list didn't show this. In fact, no one outside the company or its advisers actually knew who owned AMI.

That's how Wayne McCrae seemed to like it. When the AFR applied to look at the AMI registry in July, access was denied, reportedly on the chairman's wishes.

The company said yesterday McCrae was on Cudeco's exploration prospect at Cloncurry and could not be contacted for comment.

McCrae last filed a substantial shareholder notice in 2003, when he held 50 per cent of the stock. The latest annual report says that he holds 15 per cent, down from 25 per cent last year.

Counting the options, McCrae has 11.3 per cent of the stock today. According to the annual report, the second-largest shareholding, worth more than $30 million, is the Campbell family in Perth, which owns 8.6 per cent of the shares and options through separate holdings by Greg, Dianne, Robert and Maria Campbell, and by Camsport Pty Ltd, the company they jointly own.

"We still own 20 per cent of Cudeco," Martin Place managing director Barry Dawes told the AFR in early September. He did not reply to queries from the AFR as to whether he was referring to separate clients of Martin Place or whether a substantial shareholder notice needed to be filed.

Back in May, despite the flood of placements, AMI was facing a funding crisis. At its current cash burn rate, McCrae's outfit would run out of money by early August - just when it believed it had a promising copper prospect.

Cudeco had a tranche of 7.3 million options that would expire on July 31, with another 35 million 20? options due in 2008.

The 2006 options had a $1 exercise price, which meant two things: firstly, with AMI's share price languishing at 31?, no one was going to exercise them; secondly, if by July 31 the share price was above $1, AMI's funding problems were over.

On Wednesday May 31, two days after the board meeting, AMI announced a new copper discovery based on two drill holes, with "surprising results" from another four drill holes still being processed.

Thus began one of the great Australian trading runs.


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## JoshyJ (13 October 2006)

At 3.40pm the next day, Thursday, McCrae started buying the July options through Shaw Stockbroking. He bought more on Friday, ending up with 729,500 options, accounting for 10 per cent of the July options.

The options were so far out of the money McCrae bought them for less than half a cent, most of them from day traders at CommSec. "For a punt, I'm prepared to risk another $3000," he later told the AFR. He said AMI's drilling contractor put in an order for 2 million options before changing his mind.

But McCrae wasn't the only one buying on June 1.

At 11.29 on the Thursday morning, even before McCrae had put his first order in, someone began buying large slabs of the July options through E*Trade. In six days, E*trade bought 1.6 million options.

It's not known how many shares the McCrae family controls. While Wayne has 11 million shares and options, other family members own at least another 1 million shares. This mystery punter, whoever it was, stood to make up to $15 million profit.

McCrae family members were also trading. The annual report shows that by September, McCrae's son Cameron had sold at least 141,000 of the shares he held a year before.

Cameron McCrae was distracted by his own burgeoning commercial activities. On the day of the May 29 board meeting, when the directors awarded themselves the options, Cameron registered a $200,000 loan he had taken out two weeks earlier from the National Australia Bank for his newly established C3 Trading Trust. Yesterday, Cudeco said Cameron was overseas and could not be contacted.

On June 7, AMI reported more upbeat news and again eight days later. Trading was minuscule, but the AMI share price ratcheted steadily up. On June 19, it rocketed from 97? to touch $1.41 before easing back. The July $1 options were now in the money.

In the closing trades, a day trader known in investor chat rooms as Trade4profit picked up 26,000 of the July options for 16?. Within days, these options would be worth more than $200,000.

Trade4profit had announced his arrival on the Cudeco share register two hours earlier on the HotCopper forum. He said he had been in and out of the stock for about a week. But Trade4profit was no ordinary investor.

The best window on the anonymous world of the day traders comes from the two big online forums: Share Scene, run out of Adelaide, and the somewhat wilder HotCopper, which is controlled by EBet chairman Michael Hale, who owns 43 per cent of the holding company ahead of parties associated with Brent Potts of Southern Cross Equities with 29 per cent and former Pancontinental chief Tony Grey with 14.9 per cent.

Potts would certainly understand the appeal of anonymity: he has maintained a Swiss share-trading account for close to two decades.

Joining HotCopper only requires an email address and a nickname. Members can operate multiple accounts simultaneously (known as "multi-nics"), which means that in theory not only can members talk up stocks endlessly without revealing their identity or their sources, it is also possible to fabricate entire exchanges or "threads" between different personas that they control.

HotCopper has tightened up on multi-nics and regularly suspends members, but warns that while some comments posted may be aimed at manipulating investors, "it is not possible for management to moderate posts, so many misleading and inaccurate posts may still appear on these forums".

A HotCopper exchange can be a brutal affair. With virtually everyone on the thread holding shares in a particular company, there are no words strong enough to refer to a poster who suggests that the share price might go down.

In four years of regular posting, Trade4profit has attracted a devoted following on HotCopper and elsewhere. He describes himself as Melbourne based. He has a distinctive writing style - one that several other regular posters seem to share.

One of these posters who shares similar IP addresses with Trade4profit is linked to a holiday home in eastern Victoria and uses "exbanker" as part of an email address.

While Trade4profit stresses that he has no geological background, he often posts analyses of mining reserves from which he draws extremely bullish predictions. Results have been mixed. He was a big supporter of Cazaly Resources last year before it lost its bid for a mining lease and recently led a disastrous plunge into Jupiter Energy options.

Trade4profit is a quick study. Four days after he began posting on AMI, he posted a detailed forecast that AMI's Cloncurry prospect had indicated reserves of 61 million tonnes of copper and concluded the shares were worth at least $10.

He would later boast that this was remarkably close to the 59 million tonnes of indicated reserves that AMI announced six days later. It also echoed the bullish optimism that would mark the Market Place Securities report.

Trade4profit followed this up with a stream of detailed charts and overlays with likely drilling plans and projections of the deposit. He had obtained them he said "through detailed investigative research".

He told the AFR yesterday that all his information came from public sources: "Absolutely none was obtained from the company or anyone related to the company."

In later postings, he referred to "a few chats" with McCrae as part of his due diligence.

At a time when press coverage had turned bad "behind closed doors in private briefings, a different story was being told!", he said. "I know . . . because I was privy to at least one of them!"

He advised simple tactics to defeat automated trading systems, which would help push up the price.

Most of all he warned investors that a big mining company, the "Accumulator", was secretly building a stake in the company.

This was shown both on the days when the share price rose from the secret buying and on the days when it fell - clear proof, he wrote, that the Accumulator was "down-ramping" in order to buy the stock cheaply. This was even more reason for day traders to buy, a point Trade4profit pushed relentlessly in post after post as the dominant figure on the thread.

As the price rose, HotCopper members who had bought on his advice were gushingly grateful. "You are indeed a stock god t4p," wrote one supporter. "I for one want to grovel at your feet."

Trade4profit told the AFR in an email he saw Cudeco as a classic case of a company being outside the control of the "suits", nameless figures who "have done everything in their power to bring it all undone".

This ranged from "the media misinformation campaign, to the bringing of pressure on the ASX and finally to some of the most manipulative trading practices I have ever seen in the days leading up to and immediately preceding the suspension and reinstatement of the stock to the boards".

While the share records show no sign of a secret accumulator, some trading was unusual. On June 16, Melbourne broker Opes Prime bought 49,950 AMI shares and sold the same number.

Over nine days, its buying matched its selling almost exactly on six days.

State One Securities in Perth matched its buying to its selling on nine days out of 11, culminating in June 29 when it bought and sold 346,111 shares while Opes bought and sold 111,214 shares.

The effect was that on a day when AMI had announced a huge extension of its indicated reserves to 59 million tonnes, up to 40 per cent of the trading was State One and Opes churning over stock.

There are many legitimate reasons for such trading, but it gave the inaccurate impression that the booming turnover in Cudeco shares reflected growing interest from investors.

This was accentuated because, for the past year, the ASX has blocked identification of brokers buying or selling shares on the SEATS trading schemes - everyone except ASX regulators are in the dark when stock starts to move.

As a result there was no reason to doubt that the booming turnover in AMI reflected growing interest from investors.

Day traders didn't know who they were talking to on investor forums, where the information they received came from, or who was doing the buying or selling. They saw only the price going up and wanted a piece of it.

In total, Opes bought and sold 2.24 million shares for $9 million and ended up losing $98,000. State One Securities cleared $272,000 after selling a net 272,000 shares in $7 million turnover.

IMC Pacific had begun trading options for its clients, selling AMI ordinary shares for $3.9 million while buying an equivalent amount of options that could be converted into ordinary shares to fulfil the selling order.

Allowing for conversion costs of the options, AIM ended up with a profit of $83,000 even after the shares collapsed.

It appears that Aequs hoped to do the same thing, taking advantage of the gyrating share price to buy options to cover shares it was selling. In the three days to Monday July 3, when AMI closed at $2.93, Aequs bought a net 82,000 shares at an average price of $2.40.

Aequs managing director Drew Metcalfe declined to comment on trading by clients or whether Aequs had received the Martin Place report, but said Aequs had not bought or sold any shares on its own account.

A copy of the Martin Place draft report had reached The Australian. The newspaper's story the next day quoted an unnamed broker referring to AMI's find as "one of the most important mineral discoveries of the past 20 years", valued at up to $US17.5 billion, with a $25 price target for the shares.

The story electrified the market. Aequs set the tone by taking 19 per cent of the opening trade on the Tuesday morning.

Buying at the opening bell took out many of the sellers, signalling intense interest in the stock while leaving reduced liquidity. As the share price passed $5, Aequs began selling heavily.


----------



## JoshyJ (13 October 2006)

By the close, Aequs had net sales of $3.2 million in the shares, but its options buying had fallen behind, leaving it 341,565 securities short of balancing, if this was its intention. If so, it needed to buy more stock to avoid being caught short.

Buying options to settle share sales requires slick timing to convert the options within the three-day settlement period. Any delay by the company in issuing the new stock can leave the trader short of stock. This would be a company-induced short squeeze.

It's not known whether either of these factors affected Aequs's clients.

For whatever reason, on Wednesday morning Aequs went out even more aggressively for stock, taking a massive 26 per cent of the strong opening trade, then dominated the buying in the opening minutes.

As sellers disappeared, the CommSec day traders swarmed for the stock. Aequs picked up 7000 shares at the top of the market 24 minutes after the opening, but by then it had virtually stopped buying.

When trading was suspended at 10.58, Aequs had recovered to be up 42,000 shares and options over the five days at a cost of $688,000. With the cost of converting options, its clients were down $1 million.

But the big shareholders were laughing. Even after the share price collapsed, the 60 million shares and options that Martin Place, Aequs and State One Stockbroking had placed with their clients for $3.8 million were worth $213 million.

AMI (now Cudeco) was forced to cut back the size of its indicated resource to 25 million tonnes. But the share price ensured that all of the 2006 options were exercised and CuDeco raised $11 million from converting options. Its future was now secure.

If not for the manipulative trading and bad press that forced the share price down when Cudeco resumed trading, it would have been a happy ending for everyone, Trade4profit told the AFR, showing that McCrae had shrewdly managed to lock out the "suits" and big miners "for the benefit of the little guy". Not just the little guy. When a HotCopper admirer asked if Trade4profit had made $1 million or was it $2 million, he replied that it was a rude question, "especially when many in fact have done so".

Life moves on. Two weeks later, Trade4profit was talking up tech stock Quickflix, which had just taken a big placement from a high-profile investor. Trade4profit was spruiking Lachlan Murdoch.

What they said

If you want to know what the definition of a d.ckhead is, these guys [the doubters] symbolise it. I don't know why we've been forced to defend ourselves.

Wayne McCrae, on those who doubted Cudeco was sitting on a copper resource worth many billions of dollars. July 7, 2006

Wayne has never bulls . . . ted me and he said it would be the biggest copper find in the Southern Hemisphere. Wayne is not a big noter - he is just a polite, ordinary bloke.

Cloncurry publican Jim Telford. July 2006

This is a very volatile stock that is particularly favoured among the day traders. It is very much beholden to rumour and innuendo.

Fatprophets analyst Gavin Wendt after Cudeco shares gained more than 50 per cent in a week and then sagged on news of an exploration delay. September 2006

This is a once in a lifetime opportunity. It will play out like no other story in recent times.

Trade4profit (t4p) on HotCopper

You are indeed a stock god t4p . . . I for one grovel at your feet.

Geogeaux, on HotCopper

The drilling reports go right over my head, that's why I follow the thread on HC to give me an insight as what the reports actually mean.

Simonne1, on HotCopper

I went for a ciggy, up 20G, came back logged in now up 5G and in a trading halt. What the . . .

Timzed on HotCopper

I paid $10, what happened, I went for a coffee and it was $7.

Scanbox on HotCopper

I paid $10 too. Noooo.

Aarogon, on HotCopper

I can't believe that anyone on here is stupid enough to question t4p given his track record.

Dannyf on HotCopper

They have testicles the size of ants.

Wayne McCrae, blaming brokers for talking the share price down.

People's arsxs are getting kicked and the stock exchange is under pressure.

McCrae on the pressure to buy Cudeco stock in July.

He was quite excited to speak with me when I revealed who I was, suggesting ". . . some of your earlier numbers on Las Min . . . they were like you were inside my head. It was amazing".

Trade4profit on his first conversation with McCrae. He stresses that no information came from the company or brokers.

There is definitely a lot of angst and feeling amongst shareholders, and whether or not there will be a case, we still have to find out.

Slater & Gordon partner Michael Magazanik on plans for a class action against Cudeco, citing an investor who lost $200,000 from his superannuation.

RISING FORTUNES

Cudeco Share price

May 29

Directors get 10 million options

May 31

Cudeco reports new discovery

Jun 1-2

Wayne McCrae buys 729,500 options

Jun 29

Cudeco reports 59 million tonnes resource

Jul 3

Martin Place report circulates

Jul 5

Aequs buys $4m shares

Aug 17

Cudeco extends copper strike

Sep 5

Cudeco misses drilling update

Sep 12

Cudeco reintroduces director options


----------



## Sodapop (13 October 2006)

Cheers for that... Interesting - just visited CDUs www site and it is pretty bare bones all things considered... Not that too much can be inferred from that but considering the "scale" of the deposit something more could be warranted... You play with fire you get burned... Sometimes greed needs to be checked...


----------



## beach (13 October 2006)

thanks joshy
                good read might buy some on monday, thanks, regards beach


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## petal (16 October 2006)

Currently cdu shares are stuck below the $4 mark with very little traded today . The market is showing caution as there has not been a drilling announcement for some time. The last announcement stated new drilling would be to 500 metres depth rather than the earlier 375 metres on which the 59 million tonnes was estimated and the new rig having the capacity to drill to 1500 metres.
It was stated that there were two causes for drilling delays - servicing and late arrival of new rig and a backlog of samples at the laboratory to be examined.
There has been a rehashing of what happened months ago and I agree this is not beneficial to the share price and that the company should have had better PR but things have moved on since with reports showing a target area 3 times larger and with drilling to  now go deeper one would anticipate tonnages    to increase.I eagerly await the next drilling results which should not be far off. 
Two further comments: 1- the appointment of Coffey&co , a very competent and reputable firm to do the ore estimates was a definite plus.
2-Wayne McCrae would be going full bore to prove his critics wrong by way of an accelerated drilling programme


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## Knobby22 (17 October 2006)

I see the management has been rewarded for its behaviour by the shareholders (sarcasm) and has issued itself options diluting shareholders by 10%!

Confirms my view that this company is a good one to avoid.


----------



## Broadside (17 October 2006)

Knobby22 said:
			
		

> I see the management has been rewarded for its behaviour by the shareholders (sarcasm) and has issued itself options diluting shareholders by 10%!
> 
> Confirms my view that this company is a good one to avoid.




never overestimate the intelligence of the shareholders

farcical

doesn't mean they don't have the copper however


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## herbaltech (17 October 2006)

The directors only hold 10 to 15% of the company's shares, so how did they get the votes for the options?


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## havingfun (17 October 2006)

herbaltech said:
			
		

> The directors only hold 10 to 15% of the company's shares, so how did they get the votes for the options?





The shareholders!
have you boys worked out who killed JFK yet?


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## sleeper88 (31 October 2006)

hey an announcement came out around 8pm on the ASX website.."New Copper/Gold Mineralisation discovered southern end.."

"LHRC 154 intersected Cu/Au over 25m @ 0.42% Cu from 10 to 35m and a high of 0.33g/t Au from 10 to 35m"

doesn't seem too impressive but then again im not geologist or mining expert..

what do you guys think of this discovery?


----------



## BSD (31 October 2006)

sleeper88 said:
			
		

> "LHRC 154 intersected Cu/Au over 25m @ 0.42% Cu from 10 to 35m and a high of 0.33g/t Au from 10 to 35m"
> 
> doesn't seem too impressive but then again im not geologist or mining expert..




Not impressive, but one hole is not a comprehensive dampener on the entire anomoly. 

It does however show why people extrapolating the good grade holes across kms of strike and 100mtrs of depth are misinformed/rampers/crims

Wayne has plenty of drilling to do and CDU will not dig a mine this decade

Now he has bagged $30m from his rube shareholders - I reckon Tedder Avenue may become more interesting than drilling holes in Cloncurry


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## Ken (15 November 2006)

CDU share predictions in 5 years?


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## sleeper88 (15 November 2006)

well, i grabbed these at 4c 1.5yrs ago, after consolidation, 40c, i dont mind how far up it goes  , fingers crossed they'll find a world class deposit, $20 in 5 yrs time  , i'll leave these at the bottom of my draw and keep faith it'll live up to all the hype


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## Ken (15 November 2006)

sleeper 8. 

how did you pick such a stock.

there are so many small stocks out there....  to pick one that multiplies by so many is everyones dream...

if it were me i'd be doing handstands...

was it just a wild guess...


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## sleeper88 (15 November 2006)

Ken said:
			
		

> sleeper 8.
> 
> how did you pick such a stock.
> 
> ...




well actually, this has been the best investment comeback for me, i bought them at 4c seeing them plummet to 2c in no time, then down to a low of 1.6c, if i remember correctly,at that time it was my worst performing investment ever. Somehow i kept my nerves decided to ride it out   
I came across this stock while doing some research on copper producers. Back then, it mined the high grade copper oxide deposit Mt Norma, to produce high purity copper sulphate pentahydrate. At one stage i was hoping for a chinese pharmaceutical company to buy it out. Well i guess the recent acquistion of the rocklands project was a major turnaround for the company (and my investment) All i reget now is that i didn't buy 20c options when the company offered them last yr   ..but then i shouldn't complain too much either.


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## Ken (15 November 2006)

Are you on the substantial holders list then..?


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## sleeper88 (15 November 2006)

Ken said:
			
		

> are you on the substancial holders list then...




haha..no, far from it    unfortunately i wasn't brave enough to top up when they were 1.6c, to average out my investment.


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## petal (16 November 2006)

The technology which cdu is endeavouring to  bring to commercialisation is what led me to make my substantial investment in this company and whilst Rocklands has taken the limelight I believe that in time their technology  will be highly profitable. It has been unfortunate that the Howard government has not come good with the funds from Telstra2 for the plant to operate at Mt Lyell. The pilot plant was successful and heads of agreement were signed between the company and the Tasmanian government. All that was required was $8 MILLION.
 This technology if piggybacked on to current treatment plants can result in saving  metals now going to tailings dumps and also can be used in the cleaning up of areas like Queenstown in Tasmania.Treatment of scrap is another prospect.It has applications worldwide.
I had hoped that the drilling would have begun by now to see what uranium  there was on Rocklands but I will have to be patient as Las Minerale is taking first priority.


----------



## sleeper88 (28 November 2006)

What do the mining gurus out there make of todays announcement?


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## BSD (28 November 2006)

The diamond hole drill photos look cool and so do the 3D presos

Wayne is sure spending some dough

The assays (pending) from those diamond holes could have some big numbers

The most important part is:

"Both of these holes are being drilled by diamond core with only a shallow 20m pre-collar. In addition to assaying the holes for copper, gold and cobalt, *the core will be used for lithological, structural, metallurgical and specific gravity test-work required for our pre-feasibility studies.*"

We can see how easy any of that copper is to seperate and process.

The RC numbers are OK

None of this is sufficient to warrant the enormous valuation of CDU


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## moses (2 December 2006)

Back at $4:15 now, a week ago $3:20. Who cares what it is worth? The more uncertainty the better


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## moses (2 December 2006)

Actually...maybe I'm dreaming, but isn't that a breakout waving to us on the chart?


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## bigdog (7 December 2006)

CDU trading halt ANN to ASX

http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/showAnnouncementPDF.do?idsID=00675882


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## desie101 (7 December 2006)

Does anyone have any insight as to why?


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## sleeper88 (7 December 2006)

should be more drilling results from the rocklands project


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## bigdog (7 December 2006)

CDU ASX ANN following trading halt this morning

CDU 2:46 PM  Update on Diamond Drilling at Las Minerale (15 page report)

http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/showAnnouncementPDF.do?idsID=00676054


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## sleeper88 (7 December 2006)

looks good but need to wait for assay results   , lets hope it doesn't follow MOX's path


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## bigdog (7 December 2006)

The market liked the ANN and up 52 cents (12%) to $5.00

Moving upwards fast since tradind start just after 15:10


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## bigdog (7 December 2006)

The SP is flying up and hit $5.25 high
- now dropped to $5.08 since revised ANN below

Revised ASX ANN just posted

CDU 3:39 PM   Amended Update on Diamond Drilling at Las Minerale 

http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/showAnnouncementPDF.do?idsID=00676075


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## tahpot (7 December 2006)

The SP is definately flying... what was the difference between the two announcements?

I bought in for a short trade anticipating another gap up tomorrow morning.... not sure if I will sell on tomorrows open or hold over the weekend for more press to pickup the story. Either way CDU is looking the goods!


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## bigdog (7 December 2006)

Outstanding breakout!

tahpot  --- what was the difference between the two announcements?

Three pages of pics added for 18 page report
-- words page 1 and 2 the same

SP finished at $5.31 up 83 cents (18.5% in less than one hour trading

Traded today 3,454,169 shares $17,382,233 in less than one hour trading

Highest volume since Sept 8 when 8+ mil


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## hypnotic (7 December 2006)

I am still holding this one since the AUM disaster...

Does anyone believe it will get back to the $7 level with the slow unfold of its potential?? But one thing for sure there probably wont be anymore of the %100 surges in one day.

Looking good though and heading the right way....

Hypnotic


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## powerkoala (8 December 2006)

nice pre-open..
will it break the $6 barrier today ?
hmm.. let's see


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## tahpot (8 December 2006)

bigdog said:
			
		

> tahpot  --- what was the difference between the two announcements?
> 
> Three pages of pics added for 18 page report
> -- words page 1 and 2 the same




Ah!!! Cheers... I went straight to the cudeco website to get the announcement and that was the updated version. Thanks, makes sense now.


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## hypnotic (6 January 2007)

Looking around sites i found this little read. Wondering if anyone else is still holding this and what their thoughts are.

The following is copied from www.minebox.com 

Las Minerale continues to deliver

Cudeco drilling operations


Drilling by Cudeco at the Las Minerale Copper Project located within the Rocklands Group EPM continues to deliver strong copper results.

Drill Hole DORC 175 intersected 26m at 5.03% copper from 65to 91m including 15m at 8.34% copper and 1.13g/t gold from 66 to 81m. Drill Hole DORC 176 intersected 40m at 3.00% copper from 97 to 137m including 20m at 5.4% copper from 114 to 134m and 19m at 0.82g/t gold from 114 to 133m. Drill Hole DORC 174 intersected 33m at 1.48% copper from 141 to 174m including 9m at 4.48% copper from 162 to 171m.

The company proposes to drill upwards of 50,000m of RC and Diamond Drill holes during the 2007 calendar year, within the Rocklands Group EPM, with priority drilling at Las Minerale. 

Up to four very deep holes are also planned for the northern end of the Las Minerale under a large 300m wide low magnetic structure. This large low magnetic structure was identified by the geophysical survey (Sub Audio Magnetic Survey). 

The area contains a large breccia formation and outcropping 50m in height and over 00m wide. The area is well inside the Rocklands EPM area and coincidentally is a short distance southwest of the company’s Wilgar Uranium anomaly discovered by CRA in 1975.

Drilling is designed to test the extension of Las Minerale and the relationship to Wilgar Uranium anomaly.

The area of interest is approx 1km north along the strike length of Las Minerale where drilling is currently being carried out. The holes planned for the large breccia are planned to be deep and between 500 to1000m to test the low magnetic structure at depth.

Wayne McCrae, the company’s chairman, said that the drill rig was only operating on 50% power on DORC 177 which was the final RC hole before the christmas shutdown. “Although grades of up to 4.74% copper were intersected the hole will be re-drilled during the next start up with full power and grades expected to be higher and the hole drilled deeper,” he said.

The company is waiting on the Diamond holes assays.

- 05 Jan 2007


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## petal (8 January 2007)

The 1975 report by CRA on the Wilgar Uranium Anomaly is of interest that they thought it sufficiently important to record it . Mention was made of ore grading 39% but no tonnages.
The latest results did not excite the market however but were very good in my opinion.
I am eagerly awaiting the results from dd07  ( too rich to assay by convential laboratory methods) also from 122,123,124 and 126.
I am unclear what Wayne McCrae means when he talks of the extension of Las Minerale _ a kilometre away.
I would suggest that you plot out the reported drilling results and you will find an interesting picture emerging. It is difficult to get a decent overview  from perusal of individual reports.


----------



## Who Dares Wins (25 January 2007)

Has anybody read the announcement from late this afternoon? Some very high grade results as expected from the native copper but no movement from the market. Possibly too late in the day to get much attention. What do others think?


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## sleeper88 (25 January 2007)

Who Dares Wins said:
			
		

> Has anybody read the announcement from late this afternoon? Some very high grade results as expected from the native copper but no movement from the market. Possibly too late in the day to get much attention. What do others think?




well, the announcement came well after the close of trade. However, im pretty impressed by the drilling results so far. More high grade results were recorded. we'll have to wait till monday to see the effect of this announcemnt on the sp


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## Who Dares Wins (25 January 2007)

Ok sleeper88. I got the times a bit wrong, I'm not in Australia. But why do we wait till monday. Is there no trading tomorrow - friday?


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## Biggle (25 January 2007)

Australia day on Friday, so no trades till Monday, nice strategic release just after Trading finished, so we have the whole long weekend to pick it apart, debate over it, and maybe conclude this looks to be a good announcement. Interesting to see what pans out in Mondays trading.


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## Riesling (31 January 2007)

Chairman Wayne McCrae is speaking at the Sydney Mining Club tomorrow, no doubt he will be talking all good news so expect CDU to have a rise on Friday.

Riesling


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## brickwalls (31 January 2007)

petal said:
			
		

> I would suggest that you plot out the reported drilling results and you will find an interesting picture emerging. It is difficult to get a decent overview  from perusal of individual reports.




Petal, It may be a couple of moths old now, but the graphics in this report leave little to the imagination.  http://www.cudeco.com.au/Presentation AGM 30 Nov06.pdf


----------



## Riesling (1 February 2007)

*Today's Presentation*

You can watch it via the CDU website - the four times the size of Ernst Henry comment was interesting!


----------



## GRTRADER (1 February 2007)

Just started moving - people must have read the results.


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## sleeper88 (1 February 2007)

GRTRADER said:
			
		

> Just started moving - people must have read the results




hmm..well it took people a while to watch the presentation   After watching the presentation, the Rocklands projects looks very impressive. This is a long term hold for me. Can't wait until they drill the wilgar uranium anomaly.


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## GRTRADER (1 February 2007)

Yeah I thought it would have been a lot quicker - I just got in and got out and made a short term gain because i dont have the capital to hold unfortunately. However I agree this is a good long termer too


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## Riesling (1 February 2007)

SYDNEY (Dow Jones)--Australian copper explorer Cudeco Ltd. (CDU.AU) is in takeover talks with diversified miner Xstrata Ltd. (XTA.LN) for its Rocklands project in Queensland, Australia, Cudeco's chief executive said Thursday.

"We have had discussions with Xstrata but I can't provide any detail now," chief executive Wayne McCrae told the Sydney Mining Club.

At 0345 GMT, Cudeco shares were up 2 cents at A$3.92.

McCrae said the 100%-owned Rocklands project in Queensland close to an Xstrata copper mine, had the potential of a world class copper project, likely to contain 1.4-3.4 million metric tons of metal.

While drilling was at a preliminary stage, McCrae said the project showed strong similarities to Xstrata's Ernest Hill 120,000 ton-a-year copper mine.

"I won't be at the helm of this company in 12 months time," he said, pointing to a takeover.

__________________

Happy I got in earlier this morning.  Will be interesting to see the sp tomorrow once the newspapers report it.


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## sleeper88 (1 February 2007)

interesting, i wonder how much they're willing to pay for CDU?


----------



## Riesling (1 February 2007)

sp rose from 3.94 to 4.45 pretty quickly, so someone must think it's a goer.


----------



## Prospector (1 February 2007)

I just hope that Xstrata give CDU shareholders a better deal than they did to former MIM shareholders - talk about a rip off!


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## sleeper88 (1 February 2007)

Prospector said:
			
		

> I just hope that Xstrata give CDU shareholders a better deal than they did to former MIM shareholders - talk about a rip off!




Well, chairman Wayne McCrae, who in the 1990s lost the Century zinc deposit to RIO certainly wont give away Rocklands without a large sum of money. Hopefully he wont let down CDU shareholders. I wonder if RIO or BHP will fight for CDU as well, just BHP did for WMC resources.


----------



## Kauri (1 February 2007)

Riesling said:
			
		

> SYDNEY (Dow Jones)--Australian copper explorer Cudeco Ltd. (CDU.AU) is in takeover talks with diversified miner Xstrata Ltd. (XTA.LN) for its Rocklands project in Queensland, Australia, Cudeco's chief executive said Thursday. "We have had discussions with Xstrata but I can't provide any detail now," chief executive Wayne McCrae told the Sydney Mining Club.









> sp rose from 3.94 to 4.45 pretty quickly, so someone must think it's a goer.






   Lifted the share price 15%odd. I wonder if this could be considered a market sensitive announcement??? 









> "I won't be at the helm of this company in 12 months time,"




   Certainly won't be if it's another fiasco like the one in July last year!!!


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## BSD (1 February 2007)

McCrae is a goose. 

Surely this is market sensitive information that should be released through the ASX - not via a boozy lunch with a journo. 

If Xstrata were offering big bucks, why did he knock-out millions of $$$$ worth of shares at $4.10?

He wouldnt be helping the placement participants who were underwater by 20c by flying a kite would he?

Someone needs to protect investors from this spiv


----------



## sleeper88 (1 February 2007)

speeding ticket issued


----------



## BSD (1 February 2007)

sleeper88 said:
			
		

> speeding ticket issued




And what a response!

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20070201/pdf/310s9lswdwd9k0.pdf

The company secretary obviously doesn't have a DJ Newswire feed- otherwise she may have seen Wayne's latest ramp

At least the participants in the placement (of his stock) got a chance to get out. 

Has anybody seen the $25 price target 'research report' from his broker yet?

This needs to be nipped in the bud


----------



## Agentm (2 February 2007)

there  are those who dont play by the rules, and those who choose to believe those who dont play by rules, hence we have dreamers boosting the sp of CDU to astronomic levels..

in every industry you have rogues, and this one is a class act.

one thing you can be certain of, he doesnt know anything and all he can say when pissed is that he bets his house on it.. and refuses to downgrade reserves or retract statements as instructed by the ASX..

how much money would you invest on a clown like that?


----------



## wanty (2 February 2007)

Bet quite a lot around fifty cents for the heads and 40c oa's actually.

He did quite well by me.

The man is a legend.

Keep it up wayne,you will have the last laugh.

The suits and media will have to eat their words and humble pie.


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## rico01 (2 February 2007)

Just saw the presentation available on the cdu website ,the size of the deposit looks huge, so I,ve jumped in at $4. So hope he keeps up the spruiking and he comes good .Taking a chance!!!!!!


----------



## rub92me (2 February 2007)

rico01 said:
			
		

> Just saw the presentation available on the cdu website ,the size of the deposit looks huge, so I,ve jumped in at $4. So hope he keeps up the spruiking and he comes good .Taking a chance!!!!!!



That's a novel way of valuing the resource potential of a company. You haven't seen the hole in my garden yet...


----------



## rico01 (2 February 2007)

It's called speculating


----------



## j4mesa (2 February 2007)

it seems that yesterday is pump and dump by looking at today's sp


----------



## Agentm (6 February 2007)

i see the directors were furiously pumping and dumping when the now infamous presentation was being done, and in spite of that the asx does nothing to prevent these guys from making a killing on your hard earned dollars. all that was being hyped up in the presentation was inaccuate and had to be retracted...  but inspite of that, there is no law to protect you for believing it and buying shares from the directors.

I guess as long as the asx stands by and does nothing, then the likes of these are able to operate in the guise of a publically listed company. The directors did in no way answer the asx questions the other day, and remain defiant in their instructions from previous warnings.

if you see how much of a toothless tiger the asx really is, then it makes you wonder how many other operators out there know jack squat about anything!! you can do as you like and never be called up before a court for pump and dumps, or for continuing to defy the regulators,,

There are many ex criminals busting their chops to get back into the asx, alan bond is one case in point, and when you see the old school operators returning like big kev, you have to reason that there is little incentive for them to stay away.. i saw that one of the motor giants richest men in asia got caught the other day... 

When you have no credibility then you should be wary of any desperate operator, and of desperate old timers will do and say anything to sell you a share for whatever price they can get, they will just write up as many options for whatever price to give them a licence to print money literally, and there are always people out there willing to listen to the hype of a quick buck.. and the bigger the better.. be wary of the manner of the management. 

BTW the directors of CDU have made it very plain they have no intention of hanging around for any long term plan.. think about it!!!!


----------



## Reefer (6 February 2007)

Pleasing to see the market re-rating this cretin's company down today.  I am not too concerned any more whether he has the copper or not.  I agree that ASIC should have the teeth to put these sort of operators out of business.  He can make a fortune on other people's money - I sold out yesterday at basically break even after 5 months and am happy with the decision.  Pretty disappointing to see the directors selling down during the false rampings.


----------



## windwalker (7 February 2007)

Will be interesting watching today


----------



## howarth fisher (7 February 2007)

An interesting time for the company.

My guess is they are infact sitting on a REALLY big pile of copper.

I also think they may have got really excited about it along the way without having 100% of the data ready (not unexpected given the possible size of the field).

The question - opt out from the big talk or just keep buying quietly and wait for the test results?


----------



## windwalker (7 February 2007)

Must admit I am holding for a while longer - hve enjoyed the ride so far
Cheers


----------



## petal (7 February 2007)

This is certainly an interesting geological area hosting copper, cobalt, gold, silver and uranium, the latter two having been reported on as having been found in significant quantities in areas away from Las Minerale.Details have been scant with respect to these so we will have to be patient as well as wait for drilling of a 50 metre high 300metre  wide breccia near the Wilgar uranium anomaly to establish it as an extension of Las Minerale- a kilometre away.
Whilst the drilling programme is focussed on Las Minerale, there are other areas remaining untouched . I am thinking of one to the east of Las Minerale which adjoins the Xstrata lease area.
The prospects of locating additional good finds are there in my opinion from the testing done to date and I still believe this is a major find on the basis of Las Minerale alone.
As a family ,we remain large shareholders in this company  riding through the highs and lows.


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## drmb (9 February 2007)

petal said:
			
		

> This is certainly an interesting geological area hosting copper, cobalt, gold, silver and uranium, the latter two having been reported on as having been found in significant quantities in areas away from Las Minerale.Details have been scant with respect to these so we will have to be patient as well as wait for drilling of a 50 metre high 300metre  wide breccia near the Wilgar uranium anomaly to establish it as an extension of Las Minerale- a kilometre away.
> Whilst the drilling programme is focussed on Las Minerale, there are other areas remaining untouched . I am thinking of one to the east of Las Minerale which adjoins the Xstrata lease area.
> The prospects of locating additional good finds are there in my opinion from the testing done to date and I still believe this is a major find on the basis of Las Minerale alone.
> As a family ,we remain large shareholders in this company  riding through the highs and lows.



I hold CDU some trepidation because I think the antics of the BoD get in the way of the geology. I'm wondering how the Las M, extension et al compare with the First Narrows' Chester Project reported http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/070208/0213136.html "Assay Results Continue to Confirm High Grade Copper Over Thick Intervals at First Narrows' Chester Project Thursday February 8, 9:59 am ET 

Hole C-06-034 Intersected 14 Meters (45.9 ft.) of 4.07% Copper, Including 5.2 Meters of 8.05% Copper

Hole C-06-035 Intersected 27.2 Meters (89.2 ft.) of 3.34% Copper, Including 7.0 Meters of 5.31% Copper 

VANCOUVER, BC--(MARKET WIRE)--Feb 8, 2007 -- First Narrows Resources Corp. (CDNX:UNO.V - News) ("First Narrows" or the "Company") is pleased to report the latest assay results from the 2006 phase of the resource definition drill program completed on the 100% owned portion of the Chester Copper-Polymetallic Feeder Deposit.
The feeder deposit is interpreted as a mineralized cigar-shaped structure greater than 1,000 meters ( > 3,250 ft.) in length with one to three (or more) stacked, gently westerly inclined and northerly striking, sheet-like internal zones of higher-grade mineralization of variable thicknesses


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## Riesling (26 February 2007)

Looks like it's on the way up having hit bottom last week.


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## petal (27 February 2007)

Cudeco has been trading in a very tight range of late $3.63 to $3.71 on fairly low volumes. At the time of  the agm shares were $3.91 and I thought at that time, after attending the agm, they were great buying. Current price is even lower. Negative publicity has raised doubts in peoples' minds. An old share advisor once said to me "buy straw hats in winter".
Next announcement should be out any day now.


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## Freeballinginawetsuit (27 February 2007)

You would have to think that if the GEO's are willing to be remunerated in CDU shares for services rendered....past and present, then the current SP of CDU represents some real value.

Or then again it could be as simple as CDU has no funds to pay them in the the crinkly variety!.


----------



## GRTRADER (11 March 2007)

http://www.smh.com.au/news/business/the-imperiousness-of-being-wayne/2007/03/09/1173166980678.html


----------



## Riesling (13 March 2007)

CDU had good gains yesterday with 3 states on public holiday.  Limited sellers may see this pitch back over $4 today.     A good trade if you can get in early, or a good 2 month hold given expected upcoming announcements.


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## rico01 (15 March 2007)

Las minerale delivers high grade copper intersections@1.35%-3.05%!!!
    Don,t know if that is real spectacular but it should give it a kick along I hope


----------



## rico01 (15 March 2007)

rico01 said:
			
		

> Las minerale delivers high grade copper intersections@1.35%-3.05%!!!
> Don,t know if that is real spectacular but it should give it a kick along I hope






Well the market likes it currently $4.02   + 37


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## Glenhaven (5 April 2007)

*CDU _ now it's Uranium*

I wonder if the announcement will have any impact on the price.

ACN. 000 317 251
Unit 34, Brickworks Annex,19 Brolga Avenue, SOUTHPORT 4215
Phone: +617 5503 1955 Facsimile: +617 5503 0288
Email: admin@cudeco.com.au Website: www.cudeco.com.au
4th April, 2007.
The Manager
Company Announcements Office
ASX Ltd
4th Floor, 20 Bridge Street
Sydney NSW 2000
Dear Sir
EPM 13049 INCORPORATING ROCKLAND COPPER AND WILGAR
URANIUM BASED METAL PROSPECT (CDU 100%)
WILGAR URANIUM PROSPECT SURPRISES WITH 53,000PPM
(5.3%U), UP TO 50 OZS TONNE SILVER, .7% COPPER, 1.68% LEAD
The company has recently carried out reconnaissance ground radiometric surveying and rock chip
sampling at the Wilgar North Prospect. Exploration results have confirmed the prospect’s excellent
potential to host uranium mineralization.
To date reconnaissance ground radiometric surveying has identified an area of 50m x 30m as the centre
of a radiometric high. The survey utilized a SPP2 scintillometer which records total radiometric counts.
Ground radiometric readings are all above a background of 500counts per second with several outcrops
and soil areas returning greater than 1000 counts per second up to maximum of 15000 counts per
second. The latter is the highest scale on the instrument.
Calcareous rocks outcrop in the area of high radiometric counts. Rock chip sampling returned highly
anomalous uranium values. 14 of 16 samples returned greater than 200 ppm uranium with two samples
up to 6300 ppm and 5.3% uranium. The highest grades of uranium were returned from quartz carbonate
rocks which consist of coarse sparry pink manganiferous calcite, intergrown with quartz and minor red
feldspar. Patches (up to 1cm) and thin veins of the primary uranium mineral uraninite (pitchblende) occur
in the quartz carbonate rock. Oxidation has produced fracture coatings of minor secondary yellow and
Cudeco Limited – ASX Announcement
Page 2 of 3
green uranium minerals. Copper is evident as minor malachite. High lead and silver are also
present in the rock chip samples. (See Analytical Results below)
The base metal and silver association, quartz-carbonate-red feldspar host rock, together with the
presence of uraninite, suggest a primary hydrothermal, rather than a surficial, origin for the
mineralization.
The significance of these results is being evaluated with bedrock drill sampling.
SAMPLE RECOVERY AND ANALYTICAL
Sixteen rock chip samples were taken from a number of costeans (1m deep trenches) and from
surface within the general Wilgar Uranium Anomalous area discovered by CRA in 1972. Each
sample consisted of approx 15-25 rock chips and soil with a total weight each of approx. 1kg. The
SGS Laboratory in Welshpool WA was instructed to carry out a multiple element scan ICP
(Inductively Coupled Plasma) for 24 elements.
The assays for the 24 elements were carried out using the methods below:
ICP40Q : ICP – OCC after DIG 40Q
AAS43B : AAS after DIG 43B
IMS90Q : ICPMS after DIG 90Q
4 Elements Uranium, Copper, Lead, Silver are tabled.
One Uranium sample assayed up to 5.3% (53,000ppm) U , (180 pounds U per tonne), 2 samples
assayed over 8 ounces Ag with one sample assaying 50 ounces per tonne Ag, with other samples
assaying up to 0.7% Cu and 1.6% Pb. See Table below.
ANALYTICAL RESULTS
61772 230307 Ag Ag Ag Cu Cu Pb Pb U U U
METHOD AAS43B ICP40Q ICP40Q AAS43B ICP40Q ICP40Q IMS90Q
LDETECTION 50 2 5 0.01 10 10 0.25
UDETECTION 40000 200 10000 40 5000 10000 100000
SAMPLE NO PPM PPM Ounces PPM % % PPM PPM PPM %
UW01 - 28 0.90 153 0.02% - 300 120 - 0.01%
UW02 - 74 2.38 1120 0.11% - 250 140 - 0.01%
UW03 - 25 0.80 86 0.01% - 140 190 - 0.02%
UW04 - 64 2.06 378 0.04% - 280 90 - 0.01%
UW05 260 >200 8.36 2630 0.26% - 820 280 - 0.03%
UW06 - 93 2.99 1280 0.13% - 130 180 - 0.02%
UW07 - 48 1.54 725 0.07% - 140 70 - 0.01%
UW08 - 30 0.96 0.00% - 290 260 - 0.03%
UW09 260 >200 8.36 73 0.01% - 3380 230 - 0.02%
UW10 - 77 2.48 434 0.04% - 1450 350 - 0.04%
UW11 1580 >200 50.80 7030 0.70% - 2910 570 - 0.06%
UW12 - 127 4.08 613 0.06% - 540 150 - 0.02%
UW13 - 142 4.57 797 0.08% - 740 230 - 0.02%
UW14 - 22 0.71 64 0.01% - 3830 6500 - 0.65%
UW15 - 62 1.99 159 0.02% 1.61 >5000 >10000 53000 5.30%
UW16 - 106 3.41 1410 0.14% - 950 1030 - 0.10%
Cudeco Limited – ASX Announcement
Page 3 of 3
Cu = Copper, Pb = Lead, Ag = Silver, U = Uranium
ppm = grams/tonne, 10,000 ppm = 1%, 31grams = 1 ounce
The Wilgar Uranium, “base metals uranium” prospect is independent and “stand alone” from the
Rocklands Group Copper Project. Located within the 2200ha EPM (now mining lease application)
its location is approximately 1.3km’s to the north east of Las Minerale and located on an east west
structure as opposed to the NW/SE Las Minerale strike trend.
Although the preliminary results are highly encouraging the main focus of the company remains the
Rockland Group Copper Project. The company will however due to the encouraging results appoint
a project geologist is the prospect. The follow up work will entail further surface radiometric and rock
chip sampling and geological mapping and the continuation of the bedrock drill program.
Yours faithfully,
Wayne McCrae,
Chairman.
The information in this report that relates to exploration results is based on information compiled by Mr Malcolm Carson , who is a Member of the
Australian Institute of Mining and Metallurgy, Mr Carson is employed by Mineral Resource Consultants Pty Ltd. Mr Carson has sufficient experience,
which is relevant to the style of mineralisation and type of deposit under consideration and to the activity which he is undertaking to qualify as a
Competent Person as defined in the 2004 Edition of the ‘Australasian Code for Reporting of Exploration Results, Mineral Resources and Ore
Reserves’. Mr Carson consents to the inclusion in this report of the matters based on his information in the form and context in which it appears.


----------



## petal (5 April 2007)

*Re: CDU _ now it's Uranium*

Report should be read in conjunction with quarterly report of 31st December 2006 under "exploration" heading as it stated soil sampling programme several hundred metres on both sides of Las Minerale was done and assays performed on the samples with significant results for uranium and silver outside the main Las Minerale strike length.
It would appear from this report that uranium is not restricted to the Wilgar area now reported on or silver for that matter.


----------



## rico01 (5 April 2007)

*Re: CDU _ now it's Uranium*



Glenhaven said:


> I wonder if the announcement will have any impact on the price.
> 
> ACN. 000 317 251
> Unit 34, Brickworks Annex,19 Brolga Avenue, SOUTHPORT 4215
> ...




I notice Wayne Mc Crea has issued this notice at 4.04pm just after the market has closed 
I hope he  is not going to try and "Pump and Dump" the day before easter to fill his coffers. Pay for his next holiday.


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## Agentm (5 April 2007)

sometimes if a company is climbing the asx boards and is qualified for large institutions to become investors, they need to consider their image, i notice the trend of posting all announcements post closing, i would say the feedback they are getting from the extremely negative reactions of the pump and dump senarios has been alerted to the management, its possibly more a case of a change of tactics to stop the daytraders from hyping the announcements and trying to ramp the stock so that the larger investors can make some inroads into securing positions...

thats just my opinion.. you may find the big U announcement wont do anything much to the sp today..


----------



## rico01 (5 June 2007)

CDU have just announced they are having disscussions with a large chinese co. with the view of opening the mine themselves and producing copper products with chinese technology [value adding] he says


----------



## fooman (19 June 2007)

*CDU looking real good*

CDU looks like they really do have a fantastic discovery I will be inspecting the mine site next week so hang on.


----------



## ekman (20 June 2007)

ann just released. i cannot make a judgement on the ann as i am not an expert on this. can one of you experts care to opine on the grades etc. tks in advance


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## doogie_goes_off (20 June 2007)

Big grades in the first reported hole, other discoveries are not that interesting. I give it 5% boost in SP at most.


----------



## sleeper88 (20 June 2007)

doogie_goes_off said:


> Big grades in the first reported hole, other discoveries are not that interesting. I give it 5% boost in SP at most.




Spot on doogie, was that a pure guess? ..their EPL is highly prospective..the just keep hitting avg to good grades, with 5 rigs on site with a further 2-3 rigs to come online in July..i wonder if their drilling on double shift..they're on a tight schedule to meet the deadline of a JORC by July. New discoveries could add alot more tonage to project! With approx 8 drill rigs by July couldn't they spare a thought on drilling the Wilgar U prospect 
Now heres the question: they're aiming to develop the central las minerale resource first, generate early cashflow to fund further exploration and then expand mining operations. 
OR 
All out drilling to define a massive resource and hope to be taken over by one of the big miners, and leave it up to them to develop it. If so, then Wayne would be fully cashed up to pursue his next "dog with 2 dicks" through QMC


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## petal (21 June 2007)

With respect to Le Meridian, it should be remembered that unlike lmdhoo7 -Las Minerale ,where  results were 8.21 % Cu  a total analysis was done for native copper as it was a diamond drillhole. DORC holes 211to 230  are not and would not have been tested for native copper as was diamond hole lmdh007.
Similiarly lmrc020 to 035 would not have been tested  for native  copper.Refer second page 25th January announcement re testing method for native copper samples from all diamond holes.
When one looks at the drilling results they do seem ordinary but we have to remember a full copper analysis has not been done on these.


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## rico01 (3 July 2007)

CDU have raised over 30 million dollars in there last capital raising with 24.5 million coming from institutional and sophisticated investors. I think people will have to pay attention to this stock now
  They can do a lot of drilling with 30 mill and I  understand a new JORC is just weeks away.


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## Mazrox (27 September 2007)

CDU are in a Trading Halt pending an announcement.

My sister and brother-in-law were up that way a couple of months ago and decided to drop in at the Rocklands site, and they were very impressed with what they saw. I only have a small holding - I got caught in July 2006 and lost a few dollars, but will am still following with interest.

After all the hype of a year ago, things have been much quieter this year...

Maz


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## hoppielimp (5 November 2007)

Does anyone have an inkling what is going on today ?  Jumped 19.1% within 22 minutes of trading this morning...came down abit...but now creeping back up again....

Feels like some info is pending....


Hop


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## sleeper88 (5 November 2007)

hoppielimp said:


> Does anyone have an inkling what is going on today ?  Jumped 19.1% within 22 minutes of trading this morning...came down abit...but now creeping back up again....
> 
> Feels like some info is pending....
> 
> ...




hmm..im as puzzled as you! jorc ann? takeover by ZFX, OXR, PEM?, Hong Kong listing? QMC entitlements? major find?


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## JustaReader (21 November 2007)

Intresting indeed the movement in share price. Out of the blues. Does anyone have an educated guess as to what is going on?


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## doctorj (21 November 2007)

Nick Radge sent around a (free) email about CDU today.  I'm not sure if I'm able to distribute it, but I'm sure he'll see this thread before long.


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## rico01 (17 December 2007)

Announcement out

   Grades of average 99.65% native  copper from hole lmdhoo7 [not a missprint] This should spark a little interest in otherwise a dull day

Wayne must have something in cloncurry


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## turboprop (26 December 2007)

So what did radge email have to say? jorc not far off and heaps of copper cobalt with more copper in ground. Gold, uranium and cobalt.


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## stix1771 (13 March 2008)

Best bit is from the 6min 40 sec mark....... (at least) 4 Ernest Henry sized possible!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z8GHI9_VIo

Enjoy !!


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## Miner (7 May 2008)

http://www.mpsecurities.com.au/Publ...an_filename=BJD Presentation CDU 7 May 08.pdf 

Please visit MPS Securities website for publication adn read the report on CDU published today. It is too large document  and not sure if could be uploaded correctly.

Regards


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## vegemite (25 May 2008)

Anyone subscribe to HighGrade or willing to sign up for a trial subscription (free)? The article below is available on their website but my trial subscription has expired so would appreciate it if anyone could post the full article,

Cheers V

EXPLORATION
You don't suppose ...
May 5 - 11, 2008
STORING too much faith in a report by Martin Place Securities (MPS) on CuDeco Ltd and its Rocklands copper project might be a tad risky judging by some of the queries being flagged by outsiders familiar with affairs in north Queensland.
Read the full article


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## vegemite (25 May 2008)

Now have the HighGrade report as below, Cheers V

You don't suppose ...
By Staff reporter, 5 May 2008 
STORING too much faith in a report by Martin Place Securities (MPS) on CuDeco Ltd and its Rocklands copper project might be a tad risky judging by some of the queries being flagged by outsiders familiar with affairs in north Queensland.

The bullish MPS report, which among other things claims Rocklands as “one of the most important base metal mineral discoveries of the past 20 years”, estimates a two-million-tonnes-per-annum mining and processing operation would have a “relatively low” capital cost of about $A100 million.

“Access to main grid power, having established major highways within 5km and close mining site infrastructure will minimise capital costs,” the MPS report said, as will “low overburden and stripping ratios.”

According to an independent source – who not surprisingly didn’t want to be named – the estimate of $A100 million seems inordinately low for such an operation, with double that price tag considered more realistic. Operating costs of below A50c per pound were also queried as being someway south of what is likely to be the mark, though if CuDeco’s copper grades are indeed as MPS is estimating, then Rocklands would certainly be a low-cost operation.

MPS has modelled the copper ore to be processed as grading 3% copper for the first six years of the operation, with some 54,000t of contained copper to be produced in 2010 and 2011, and some 81,000t in the following four years when throughput is increased to 3Mtpa. About one-third of the copper produced in each of those six years will come from native copper, with Rocklands estimated by MPS to contain some 7Mt grading 5% copper – as part of a total MPS estimate of 111Mt at 1.83% copper, 0.05% cobalt and 0.23gpt gold.

Should MPS’s grade estimate prove accurate – an official JORC resource continues to be long awaited and is said to be due early in the second half of 2008 – Rocklands would have the key ingredient for it to be an outstanding project. A simple comparison highlighting just how outstanding can be seen by the project’s capital intensity per annual tonne of production.

While the rest of the copper world was told at a major industry event in Chile last month that this measure was heading on average to about $US10,500/t – with projects that averaged $US7000-8000/t were said to be doing very well – Rocklands’ $US100 million capital cost and 54,000t of copper production means a capital intensity of just $US1800/t. In other words, a little over one-tenth of the global average.

With the MPS-forecasted grade of 3% being about five-times the global average, part of that notional difference is explained. So again, the official Rocklands resource will be telling.

Another question mark placed on the MPS report relates to the production start-up date.

“MPS expects CuDeco to finalise its definitive feasibility study by June this year which includes completion of a native title agreement, approval of a mining lease after the environmental impact assessment and completion of the project engineering design,” the broker said. “Earthworks and pre-stripping of the mine pit will be required and this can commence early third quarter this year until completion close to February 2009 when open pit mining will commence.”

That MPS timeline is fanciful according to a third party familiar with the regulatory and operating environment in Queensland. 

Time, as they say, will reveal all.


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## Gundini (10 December 2008)

This is my first stock purchase since Oct 2007.

If this company has half the copper that the pictures in the latest presentation suggest, it will surely live up to its slogan, "The new force in copper".

Still has plenty of cash left, and appears to have found a base.

Lots of pretty pictures, well worth a look!

http://www.cudeco.com.au/pdf/Cudeco_Presentation_2008AGM.pdf


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## Gundini (15 December 2008)

This stock did ok today after a nice confirmation of Copper.

Could it be a breakout?

I don't have then correct tools to draw a TA, but starting to look ok over a beer!


----------



## Gundini (15 December 2008)

Could this stock be a leader in this country? 

Are there any copper bugs that can see the upside in this guy?


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## Sean K (17 April 2009)

Surprised there's no long termers still about sprewking this stock. When (if) Cu recovers this could be anything. Wonder if they'll get anywhere near the ramp they put out as their initial inferred estimate. 

Some amazing grades still being produced. Worth keeping an eye on perhaps for when (if) things turn around.

Up 100% from the low, which is standard for the sector at the moment. 

Any holders out there?


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## stix1771 (4 May 2009)

Director sinks in $170K more, SP spikes on Friday, Qtrly out, more good intersects out.........waiting!


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## turboprop (20 May 2009)

hello all . i rarely post as i seem to get banned from stockmarket sites for outing obvious downrampers with skullduggery in there hearts .as for cdu the resource  has only gotten bigger with ceo buying ,  i only ever accumulate this stock as imo it has the potential to be the biggest find in many a year and once mining begins dividens should follow   i notice a certain last alphabet man still downramping on another site .me thinks he is a paid personality for the dark side , i sadly i cant post there


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## Sean K (2 June 2009)

Broken through $3.00 by the seems which looks extremely important long term. Check out that previous support, now massive resistance. A little pennant on the short term chart that looks like it might be about to brak up too. Copper recovery obviously the catalyst.


----------



## stix1771 (2 June 2009)

kennas said:


> Broken through $3.00 by the seems which looks extremely important long term. Check out that previous support, now massive resistance. A little pennant on the short term chart that looks like it might be about to brak up too. Copper recovery obviously the catalyst.



I think the pending announcement might be the catalyst......won't know until it comes out of suspension....


----------



## Sean K (2 June 2009)

stix1771 said:


> I think the pending announcement might be the catalyst......won't know until it comes out of suspension....



It's a capital raising, so might depend on the numbers. Capital raisings have be welcomed by the market lately.


----------



## stix1771 (2 June 2009)

kennas said:


> It's a capital raising, so might depend on the numbers. Capital raisings have be welcomed by the market lately.



Agree, the Cap raising have been well accepted of late, and it's encouraging to see CDU (and JML) use the improving SP to good effect.  Some canned the Buy Back as a cash burn exercise, but looks as though it will pay dividends in this exercise, as well as make cash fro CDU.  think the av buy back price was below $2.00, so even at the mooted $2.50 by the AFR it's a money spinner....but it's not the main game!


----------



## Sean K (3 June 2009)

Cripes! They've had to settle for $2.50.

That doesn't look so hot to me.

At least they've got some cash.




*Equity Raising of $52.5 Million*

Highlights
• CuDeco has arranged a comprehensive equity funding package of $52.5m at $2.50 a share, comprising:
 a placement to institutional investors in Australia and overseas for up to
A$42.5m; and
 an underwritten share purchase plan (“SPP”) offer for $10m.
• The Lead Manager of the placement is Azure Capital Pty Ltd. Subject to finalisation of documentation, Azure will underwrite the SPP offer.
• The funds raised will place the Company in a strong position to achieve significant milestones for the development of the Rocklands Project, including giving it better leverage for negotiation of project finance.


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## doogie_goes_off (3 June 2009)

More than happy to be offered a few more at $2.50. Expecting there is enough to start feasability for Rocklands now.


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## giasing (5 June 2009)

There is 3 resistance lines at $2,$2.5,$3. what i though is if CDU maintain at $3 level a few days more, it could be a hot stock for me.


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## Sean K (5 June 2009)

giasing said:


> There is 3 resistance lines at $2,$2.5,$3. what i though is if CDU maintain at $3 level a few days more, it could be a hot stock for me.



Wow, a 'hot stock'! Best on get on board then! 

Yes, holding above $3.00 is very important if the long term breakout is to be confirmed. Going under again, and she's just tracking sideways, and it'll be a lukewarm stock only.


----------



## S73417H (8 July 2009)

I was recently steered in the direction of CuDeco by a stockbroker. They look to be in quite a strong position regarding assets held and current position within the market. 

Their company slogan may very well prove to be an accurate assessment if the price of copper continues growing. 

The fact they have Cobalt and a potential store of Uranium is a pretty nice sweetener also. 

One to watch...


----------



## JnrTrader (8 July 2009)

very interesting stock, been following this of late. rocklands is apparently, from what i gather an 85mt cu resource however the asx would only allow them to inform the market of 25mt...Wayne McCrae has told shareholders about this and still they are not allowed to publish what they believe they have...another thing to note is that xstata hold a heavy presence in the area in queensland where rocklands is situated, and one of their major copper mines 40km east is due to run dry soon.  While the deposit at las minerale is not the biggest, McCrae has said it is possibly the highest cu content deposit in the world so def one to watch


----------



## DVEOUS (9 July 2009)

I see that earlier this week, the CDU Chairman/CEO, Wayne McCrae, obtained another 6,000 shares @$2.50.
(I'm not sure if this is from the capital raising allotted on July 3)

If a company director is accumulating more shares, they obviously know something, and that the company is moving forward?
Should the rest of us treat this a no-brainer, and get on board too?

Is the 285.39 P/E ratio given by Commsec right?
This is well above the sector, and possibly erroneous.


----------



## Sean K (9 July 2009)

DVEOUS said:


> I see that earlier this week, one of the CDU Directors, Wayne Michael McCrae, picked up another 6,000 shares @$2.50.
> 
> If a company director is accumulating more shares, they obviously know something, and that the company is moving forward?
> Should the rest of us treat this a no-brainer, and get on board too?
> ...



Directors buying shares can be positive, but not $15k, or whatever. Pittance. 

Overall management ownership is very important to explorers/developers imo. If they own quite a substantial part of the company then great! Not so great if they have gazillions of options at a really low strike for no incentive to grow the comany. Watch out for that one! 

Directors selling shares is ALWAYS bad imo. Even if it is to pay off a loan or buy a new yacht. No excuses!!!!!!

They don't necesarrily know anything more than they did a few days ago, and there are rules regarding when Directors can buy and sell around announcements to reduce the risk of insider trading.

Not that that means a whole lot....

A PE is only relevant if the company has an E. How much did they earn last year apart from interest in the bank?


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## doogie_goes_off (9 July 2009)

Take a look at what's happening with old employee options with FMG - amazing $ being made by long term employees.:topic Dilution probably not such a big issue with their kind of resources.


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## Sean K (13 July 2009)

Amazing intersections.

100m @ 7% Cu, from surface. 


*ROCKLANDS GROUP COPPER PROJECT (CDU 100%)*

• Pilot Scale Testwork from bulk sample to commence using HPRC technology at Amdel Mineral Laboratories in W.A.
• SAM (Sub Audio Magnetic) geophysics to be completed over the balance of the EPM not already completed in previous survey
• 300,000 metre RAB Bedrock Drill program over the EPM commenced this week balance of the EPM not already tested

SIGNIFICANT DIAMOND CORE AND RC DRILL HOLE RESULTS*
Holes are not necessarily drilled in numerical sequence
All intersections are down hole meterage assays.

Drill Hole DODH013 intersected 100m @ Cu equivalent of 6.87% fm 3m – 103m
Drill Hole LMRC278 intersected 41m @ Cu equivalent of 3.47% fm 55m – 96m
Drill Hole LMRC268 intersected 80m @ Cu equivalent of 2.15% fm 1m – 81m
Drill Hole DORC643 intersected 30m @ Cu equivalent of 3.20% fm 44m – 74m
Drill Hole DORC637 intersected 79m @ Cu equivalent of 3.14% fm 57m – 136m
Drill Hole DORC571 intersected 17m @ Cu equivalent of 1.09% fm 84m – 101m
Drill Hole DORC638 intersected 23m @ Cu equivalent of 2.36% fm 22m – 45m
Drill Hole DORC641 intersected 25m @ Cu equivalent of 3.10% fm 84m – 109m
Drill Hole DORC573 intersected 12m @ Cu equivalent of 3.23% fm 67m – 79m
Drill Hole DORC648 intersected 46m @ Cu equivalent of 2.89% fm 125m – 171m
Drill Hole DORC622 intersected 25m @ Cu equivalent of 3.03% fm 58m – 83m
Drill Hole DORC658 intersected 15m @ Cu equivalent of 4.66% fm 107m – 122m
**Drill Hole LMRC203 intersected 39m @ Cu equivalent of 3.17% fm 117m – 156m


Why haven't they progressed this further?


----------



## S73417H (13 July 2009)

CuDeco looks so solid. Waiting for some funds to come through on some other stocks and then I intend on upping my holdings. I just hope I don't miss the boat in the mean time


----------



## DVEOUS (13 July 2009)

Yes, I added this to my watch list only last week, and is a company to watch, IMO. 
I thought they were a buy at $2.40 mark.

Miners are on the nose a bit, and CDU has eased back from over $3 on June 10.
It is a common opinion that the miners were getting a bit over priced at that June peak.

Ore stocks going sideways too.
Look at FMG... a great quarterly report released today, and only picked up 9c to close at $3.49.


----------



## S73417H (15 July 2009)

So whats up with CuDeco this morning? Seems to be busting out of the gates quite strong. 

Looks like the instos might have been getting behind it in the past few days.


----------



## Sean K (15 July 2009)

Sometimes it's for no reason whatsoever.

Like the market jumping 4% in 2 days and the release of a 100m@7% Cu intersection.

No reason.


----------



## skyQuake (15 July 2009)

Its lagged the other miners a bit, so maybe just playing catch-up. Having said that, there's excellent resistance at $2.81, could be a decent short here with good Risk/Reward.


----------



## oldblue (15 July 2009)

CDU seem to be getting their ducks in a line with "spectacular" results from the latest test drilling at Rocklands and funds raised from the placement and issue to enable a Definitive Feasibility Study to proceed.

Anyone like to hazard a guess on the timing and nature of the next few steps?

Disc: Only an interested spectator at this stage.


----------



## Sean K (19 August 2009)

I'm sure there's no reason for the past months action either.


MARKET RELEASE 13th August, 2009
________________________________________________________________

ROCKLANDS COPPER PROJECT (CDU 100%)

- TWO SIGNIFICANT DEVELOPMENTS -

Confirmation Las Minerale mineralisation persists below 470m depth with intersection of abundant visible sulphides (chalcopyrite).

Deep drilling encounters second continuous zone of sulphide mineralisation (chalcopyrite), striking sub-parallel to Las Minerale, including massive sulphides.



Looks to be a significant deposit...


----------



## johannlo (19 August 2009)

This is going to be an exciting one. Been following it closely and have too many facts / figures swirling round my head to give a coherent summation but: unless there are a lot of porkys involved (always possible lol) then we are due a heck of a JORC.

Topped up today, banging my head that I didn't top up yesterday as I thought the retrace would be more than a pitiful 5% but oh well in it for the long run now. 

I'll just revisit the MPS report from last year (which is of course 1 year old, adjust figures as you see fit). Bear in mind on 13/8 announcement came out indicating that we're likely to see very nice figures when (if? for the cynics lol) the JORC comes.... incidentally thats when the SP started rocketing past previous resistance, the big boys are definitely waking up to this now. 

As for TA - everything pointing up (MACD, DMI/ADX, volumes), yesterday's piercing line candle confirmed w/ today's gap up, what's there not to like. 

As always DYOR

LOW CASE:
Assumed Mining Reserve: 58 mill tons
Copper Price: $US2.04
Exchange Rate: 0.9
Aussie Dollar Copper Price $2.27
Valuation $8.34.

BASE CASE:
Assumed Mining Reserve: 86 mill tons
Copper Price: $US2.50
Exchange Rate: 0.95
Aussie Dollar Copper Price $2.63
Valuation $13.16.

HIGH CASE:
Assumed Mining Reserve: 86 mill tons
Copper Price: $US2.95
Exchange Rate: 0.95
Aussie Dollar Copper Price $3.11
Valuation $16.73


----------



## Sean K (21 August 2009)

Hooly dooly!

The grades and depths continue.


ROCKLANDS COPPER PROJECT (CDU 100%)

ROCKLANDS CONTINUES TO DELIVER SIGNIFICANT DRILLING RESULTS

NEW SUB AUDIO MAGNETS (SAM) SURVEY ENCOMPASSES THE WHOLE 2200Ha OF THE ROCKLANDS EPM

Significant Diamond Core and RC Drill intersections reported in Copper Equivalent (Cu eq). Details of individual Cu, Co and Au results from page 4.

Drill Hole ID

LMRC267 intersected 100m @ 2.48% Cu eq fm 41m – 141m
LMRC274 intersected 89m @ 2.07% Cu eq fm 0m – 89m
LMRC269 intersected 78m @ 1.94% Cu eq fm 1m – 79m
LMRC272 intersected 88m @ 1.93% Cu eq fm 6m – 94m
LMRC273 intersected 78m @ 1.62% Cu eq fm 4m – 82m
LMRC276 intersected 48m @ 3.13% Cu eq fm 25m – 73m
DORC644 intersected 9m @ 2.75% Cu eq fm 151m – 160m
DORC655 intersected 43m @ 1.95% Cu eq fm 5m – 48m
DORC653 intersected 86m @ 1.20% Cu eq fm 16m – 102m
DORC650 intersected 20m @ 1.42% Cu eq fm 78m – 98m
DORC660 intersected 24m @ 1.02% Cu eq fm 201m – 225m
LMRC263 intersected 34m @ 1.96% Cu eq fm 0m – 34m
LMRC275 intersected 27m @ 1.33% Cu eq fm 12m – 39m
and 10m @ 2.46% Cu eq fm 84m – 94m
**LMRC204 intersected 38m @ 1.37% Cu eq fm 101m – 139m
and 45m @ 1.01% Cu eq fm 144m - 189m
LMRC277 intersected 72m @ 1.06% Cu eq fm 14m – 86m
Page 2 of 15
**DORC571 intersected 17m @ 1.13% Cu eq fm 84m – 101m


----------



## doogie_goes_off (21 August 2009)

This is Australias best Copper prospect not in production. It's getting bigger. The shares are getting harder to buy. Copper has been bullish for a couple of months. Mine payback should be quick. $13.16 did not seem like an unreasonable valuation (see post below 19 Aug) albeit longer term copper may be $2-2.50. Probably will have high infrastructure cost (rail??). Anyhow I can't see a reason to get out. RXM's hillside project has better location, but grades like this can make anything pay.


----------



## freebird54 (21 August 2009)

doogie_goes_off said:


> This is Australias best Copper prospect not in production. It's getting bigger. The shares are getting harder to buy. Copper has been bullish for a couple of months. Mine payback should be quick. $13.16 did not seem like an unreasonable valuation (see post below 19 Aug) albeit longer term copper may be $2-2.50. Probably will have high infrastructure cost (rail??). Anyhow I can't see a reason to get out. RXM's hillside project has better location, but grades like this can make anything pay.




"harder to buy" - without a JORC?

Great website for information - We have seen more holes than on the biggest swiss cheese;-)

I trade them - not holding today


----------



## doogie_goes_off (21 August 2009)

They have a JORC compliant resource, it is significantly out of date. They are going to feasability and doing a JORC resource at the same time. DYOR.


----------



## doogie_goes_off (21 August 2009)

Let me rephrase, harder to buy at a low price (minor bull run with copper price and results). Does that clarify enough?


----------



## plankton (1 September 2009)

Trading Halt called this morning

Wonder whats the news?

flibber flob bob arrrchoo for the minimum


----------



## Sean K (1 September 2009)

plankton said:


> Trading Halt called this morning
> 
> Wonder whats the news?
> 
> flibber flob bob arrrchoo for the minimum



plankton, when a company comes out with a trading halt, you can actually go to their own announcement to the ASX and see what it might be.

Significant exploration results for CDU these days actually really mean significant exploration results....

(please don't pad posts again to make the limit)


----------



## Prospector (1 September 2009)

So lets hope that significant exploration results means significant GOOD exploration results and not significant BAD exploration results.  You think they could just slip the + or -ve direction in there, wouldnt you!


----------



## plankton (1 September 2009)

cheers Kennas 

I was sitting here in my 20min delayed news feed timewarp and thought i'd bump the thread to get a bit of a discussion going

Apologies for the padding and agree hope its good!


----------



## doogie_goes_off (29 September 2009)

CDU have taken a caning over the last 2 days (classic bubble I assume) or just following the margins on the copper price (weaker). Anyone prepared to speculate on this as a buying opportunity or can the chartists see further to fall??


----------



## sleeper88 (29 September 2009)

CuDeco explores buybacks

JAMIE FREED
September 29, 2009 

Insider, Jamie Freed's new column, looks at what's happening in boardrooms, back rooms and the world of markets. Click back here for the latest updates.

Queensland copper hopeful CuDeco is never short of head-turning moves.

The latest puzzling decision taken by its executive chairman, Wayne McCrae, is to conduct its second share buyback in the past 12 months.

Most exploration companies tend to spend their cash on, well, exploration. Or perhaps acquisitions. In any case, buying back shares tends to be very low on the list of priorities.

Some shareholders are particularly surprised by the timing of the CuDeco buyback because it conducted a $52.5 million capital raising in June at $2.50 a share.

Following some good exploration results from its Rocklands project, CuDeco shares are now trading closer to the $5 mark. So it appears to be willing to dilute at a lower price and spend a higher price buying back the shares with help from broker BBY.

CuDeco is seeking to buy back up to 10 per cent of its capital, which would cost about $58.5 million. It had $54.8 million in the bank as of June 30 and recently completed an earlier buyback on which it spent $3.85 million.

A buyback will serve to boost the percentage of the company held by McCrae, which now stands at 10.3 per cent.

CuDeco announced the latest buyback yesterday. Normally, buybacks tend to prop up a share price. But curiously, its shares have fallen today and are trading 25c lower at $4.95, which could indicate some investors are questioning the merits of the strategy.

CuDeco has yet to provide any explanation for the latest buyback.

====================================================
From this, you'd think that WM is very confident that the company is undervalued and he would be able to raise further capital at a good price further down the track.

Been a shareholder for 6 years and this guy still amazes me (good and bad).


----------



## doogie_goes_off (30 September 2009)

Institutional selling explains the dip. Goodman & Company, Investment Council Ltd. selling nearly 3 Million shares. Should creep back up IMO.


----------



## WRONG'UN (29 January 2010)

On days like today the market doesn't seem to like any stocks. The attached shot reminds me of what CDU has to offer. (disc - I have some)


----------



## Miner (11 March 2010)

Not every one loves red or copper it seems

CDU thread was not hacked by any one since late Jan of this year.
So I am hacking it with the KNOW NOTHING note from CDU.
Yesterday they published a China news article suggesting CDU is having talks with prospective customers.
This morning TELL ME WHY note from ASX and the response from CDU as attached.

It is interesting when companies create a turbulence in the market and then pretend know nothing. It happened with FMG (there could be many but I know about FMG saga) about China talk and the price fluctuation.

CDU prices have gone up a bit this week and let us see what happens today. 
I wish Speculator touches this stock to create a high rise wave in the price.

Disclaimer : I hold a small parcel and bought by fluke last week without having studied it much


----------



## pilots (21 March 2010)

Come Monday we will see the spin doctors working over time,  how can any one can buy in to a company that has some one working for them who is only a ramper from the Hot Whoppers, he all so worked for CVI.


----------



## brickwalls (4 July 2010)

pilots said:


> Come Monday we will see the spin doctors working over time,  how can any one can buy in to a company that has some one working for them who is only a ramper from the Hot Whoppers, he all so worked for CVI.




Come Tuesday Lets just see what's what.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          In Cloncurry


----------



## pilots (5 July 2010)

My bet is that this week we will see a report that will go some thing like this.
::ue to the massive amount of drilling that has been done to date, and due the massive amount of copper that has been found, we will need six months more be for we can release the JORC.:::


----------



## pilots (5 July 2010)

You know this Cobalt will have to delay the JORC, we will have to know how much of that we have don't we. We will let you know around Xmas.


----------



## BELFORT (15 July 2010)

Very frustrating for holders, but it was a decent rebound i suppose! 

Will be interesting to see how Wilgar pans out, lack of volume really shows its all a waiting game at the moment. 

I like this stock, but I really am not a fan of managements treatment of shareholders, what a wait!


----------



## calais (18 July 2010)

Can anyone guess how much copper this company has? 

I m trying to compare Sandfire Resources with Cudeco as they have similiar market cap.

You would think Cudeco would have much more and be 1-2 years ahead in exploration.


----------



## Sean K (18 July 2010)

calais said:


> Can anyone guess how much copper this company has?



I don't think they have anything. You'd have to start thinking that the bs they have given the market about on going JORC definition is a complete and utter sham. How long has it been since they first produced a target? 4 years? Unbelievable.


----------



## pilots (18 July 2010)

It looks like we have drilled many holes in a 10MTX20MT block, then we let every one believe that their results from all that drilling is from all over our block of land, now you tell me are we being hoodwinked????


----------



## Sean K (18 July 2010)

pilots said:


> It looks like we have drilled many holes in a 10MTX20MT block, then we let every one believe that their results from all that drilling is from all over our block of land, now you tell me are we being hoodwinked????



The overall area being drilled seems to be about 2000m length x 800m width x 300m depth. I can only guess by their presentations. Amazing grades, but it's no good if it's over a small zone.


----------



## Sean K (16 August 2010)

Interesting development:



> CuDeco Ltd and the Chairman of CuDeco Ltd have instructed their legal representatives to file claims in the Supreme Court of Queensland, against internet forum, “HotCopper” and “2 Posters”, the latter being knowing participants.
> 
> Cudeco’s Claim:
> 1. Misleading and deceptive conduct under the Trade Practices Act 1974.
> ...




This may not go anywhere, but goes to show we need to be careful with our statements.


----------



## Miner (16 August 2010)

kennas said:


> Interesting development:
> 
> 
> 
> This may not go anywhere, but goes to show we need to be careful with our statements.





Interesting situation Kennas.

By default CUDECO may be advertising HotCopper. Some times scandal for Hollywood artists go in their favour.

But definitely it shows the forum is not just a casual forum.

I am wondering on the same token, if some one ramps a share, will that company rewarding the forum 

I hope Joe will issue a stern warning to all of us citing the CDU example so that we learn lessons on HC

Personally I fail to understand however, why should take any notice on HC postings.  I visited few times and lost interest

Do not hold CDU any more

Cheers


----------



## scanspeak (17 August 2010)

Anyone here from Hotcopper?

Looks like the CDU threads have been locked down over there due to the court case. 
I suggest we make ASF our new home.


----------



## Ibbz (17 August 2010)

scanspeak said:


> Anyone here from Hotcopper?
> 
> Looks like the CDU threads have been locked down over there due to the court case.
> I suggest we make ASF our new home.




As soon as I saw they'd locked the CDU thread, this is where I came. Looking forward to tomorrow's JORC, it's been a long wait.


----------



## scanspeak (17 August 2010)

Ironic isnt it, that on the eve of the biggest announcement in 4 years, the number 1 discussion forum is shut down.

On the plus side, we have emoticons here.

:aus: :alcohol:


----------



## prawn_86 (17 August 2010)

scanspeak said:


> Anyone here from Hotcopper?
> 
> Looks like the CDU threads have been locked down over there due to the court case.
> I suggest we make ASF our new home.




Please note that ASF has stricter rules when it comes to posting price targets etc. If you are to post a target please make sure it is backed up by information and research.

For newer members i suggest reading the site rules and guidelines


----------



## scanspeak (17 August 2010)

From today's Age:



> Miner moves to end chatroom debate
> Barry FitzGerald
> August 17, 2010 - 12:38PM
> 
> ...




More: http://www.theage.com.au/business/miner-moves-to-end-chatroom-debate-20100817-127sc.html
bfitzgerald@theage.com.au


----------



## pilots (17 August 2010)

The rampers will be hoping mad that they all so have been shut down as well.
What a joke, what happens if the two people, that are in trouble, are living in say the USA.


----------



## scanspeak (18 August 2010)

JORC due out today - bloodied shorters faces guaranteed.
No doubt the ASX is going over it with a  fine-toothed comb.


----------



## Ibbz (18 August 2010)

It's out - 

MEASURED AND INDICATED RESOURCE
30.94 Mt @ 1.24% Cu Eq
(0.80% Cu Eq cut-off) (850 million lbs Cu Eq)

RESOURCE ESTIMATES FOR ROCKLANDS PROJECT USING VARIOUS CU EQ CUT-OFF GRADES
Using 0.25% Cu Eq cut-off
Total Resource 157.0 Mt @ 0.56% Cu Eq (1.93 billion lbs Cu Eq)

Measured and Indicated 101.2 Mt @ 0.62% Cu Eq
Using 0.15% Cu Eq cut-off
Total Resource 245.0 Mt @ 0.42% Cu Eq (2.27 billion lbs Cu Eq)
Measured and Indicated 151.0 Mt @ 0.47% Cu Eq


Also Magnetite resource - 

Magnetite Resource
Above a 0.25% CuEq cut-off, an Inferred Resource of 157Mt of magnetite (~Fe3O4) mineralisation with a grade of 2.9% Davis Tube Recovery (“DTR”) has been estimated. DTR represents recovered magnetite from samples in a magnetic recovery assay process. Above a 0.15% CuEq cut-off, the Inferred estimate is 245Mt of magnetite mineralisation at 3.17% DTR. It is planned that magnetite will be recovered in the ore processing plant as a concentrate.


----------



## pilots (18 August 2010)

scanspeak said:


> JORC due out today - bloodied shorters faces guaranteed.
> No doubt the ASX is going over it with a  fine-toothed comb.



\

Well the shorters have won, what a JOKE, they have shut the ramp site down so they cant talk about how bad this has turned out to be.


----------



## Ibbz (18 August 2010)

From the look of the market depth, whoever day trades this could make quite alot of $$$.


----------



## UBIQUITOUS (18 August 2010)

Ibbz said:


> It's out -
> 
> MEASURED AND INDICATED RESOURCE
> 30.94 Mt @ 1.24% Cu Eq
> ...




Not looking good. Not looking good at all!! Oh well...that's the life of a Hotcopper stock!


----------



## adds4 (18 August 2010)

its a big resource, but not as big as i was hoping. The market didnt like it, down 35%


----------



## scanspeak (18 August 2010)

Yeah, big disappointment. 
Still, I wonder how the native copper was analysed. Was it limited to 10%?
I have no doubt that JORC is very conservative.


----------



## TheAbyss (18 August 2010)

kennas said:


> I don't think they have anything. You'd have to start thinking that the bs they have given the market about on going JORC definition is a complete and utter sham. How long has it been since they first produced a target? 4 years? Unbelievable.




Well said mate.



adds4 said:


> its a big resource, but not as big as i was hoping. The market didnt like it, down 35%




This is no advance on what they quoted 3-4 years ago as a resource. Down 38% and heading south. Their resource is spread far and wide so hardly worth starting as a project.


----------



## blackjack (18 August 2010)

kennas said:


> Interesting development:
> 
> 
> 
> This may not go anywhere, but goes to show we need to be careful with our statements.




well i did follow the HC threads and bought as vectorvest had a buy on CDU

so what i dont understand now is that the 2 litigants are being taken to court for telling the truth? as the JORC proves or what?

the potential charges seem vague but if the 2 litigants said that CDU was not being truthful ie not releasing the JORC for many years and relying on ramping then how will this stand up in court. You only need to see today that the SP has TANKED and the shorters are in the pub celebrating.

please someone throw some light on this event


----------



## WiseMum (18 August 2010)

... and had it occured to anyone else that the timing of their shutdown of the HC thread was a deliberate attempt to quieten the masses after releasing this new info?  I don't own CDU ... comiserations to those who do.  All very strange!


----------



## blackjack (18 August 2010)

WiseMum said:


> ... and had it occured to anyone else that the timing of their shutdown of the HC thread was a deliberate attempt to quieten the masses after releasing this new info?  I don't own CDU ... comiserations to those who do.  All very strange!




just checked the home page

 The CuDeco helpdesk has closed for the time being, please check back shortly.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (18 August 2010)

This is a major event for the Australian markets, IMO, and could be an ominous signal for the end of the mining boom.  

The thing to learn here is that those who try to manipulate and control everything for their own ends will usually do extremely well in the short to medium term, but will always come unstuck in the end.

Stock chat forums who try to manipulate and control what people post will come unstuck (I like it here because it's free from nazi moderators hell bent on preventing people saying naughty words).

Companies that try to manipulate and control what happens to their share price will also come unstuck.

I can't see CDU recovering from this very hefty change in sentiment.  The ann might be ok but as we know, sentiment tends to overrule fundamentals.  I expect further downward jolts to the share price.


----------



## skc (18 August 2010)

scanspeak said:


> From today's Age:
> 
> More: http://www.theage.com.au/business/miner-moves-to-end-chatroom-debate-20100817-127sc.html
> bfitzgerald@theage.com.au




This article said



> The market is expecting an upgrade all right, but whether it will be enough to justify the group's $650 million market capitalisation remains to be seen. A high-grade core of 25 million tonnes grading 2-3 per cent copper and another 100 million tonnes of 1 per cent or less copper is the common expectation.




Compare that to the CDU announcement which says



> 30.94Mt @ 1.24% Cu Eq




So that's 40% less than what the reported expectations are. Interesting how the stock price has fallen 40%.

Anyone like to put a valuation based on these resource numbers? The market is saying the ~38,500 tonnes of copper is worth $360m, or over $9,000 per tonne (in the grounds no less). Doesn't seem to make sense as copper is only worth ~$7500-8000 per tonne.

Have I got the numbers wrong? Or more share price falls to come?


----------



## blackjack (18 August 2010)

skc said:


> This article said
> 
> 
> 
> ...




more to come

see the history of CDU and they have ramped the co before when the stated resources that were maybe 50% over

CDU were closed for a while so that the pros could determine the truth

now it looks like its happened again

overstating the resources

thats why I dont undertand why they are wasting stock owners money in taking this case to court

should be a law against it


----------



## pilots (18 August 2010)

Blackjack, they will never take anyone to court, that little stunt was to shut down hot whoppers so as we can't complain about all the untruths that have been posted about this company. If they do goto court, we should then take the main ramper to court for all the untruths he has been telling us. They can NOT have it both ways.


----------



## TheAbyss (18 August 2010)

Gringotts Bank said:


> This is a major event for the Australian markets, IMO, and could be an ominous signal for the end of the mining boom.
> 
> The thing to learn here is that those who try to manipulate and control everything for their own ends will usually do extremely well in the short to medium term, but will always come unstuck in the end.
> 
> ...




How is one companies chest thumping going to bring an end to a legitimate industry? The mining industry is here to stay and not coming to an end because of one entities BS. It is riding a wave at the moment and CDU will not stop it imo. 

Yes the shareholder will be the one bearing the pain as usual and McRae will be off with some cash. That doesnt mean that growth cycles will slow down or other mining companies will experience any slow downs due to CDU statements or anything anyone has to say on a forum about it. 

Did childcare die after ABC? No, it is more than viable.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (18 August 2010)

In itself, CDU's price action won't bring an end to an entire industry, but it will affect the broader market sentiment in quite a drastic way, and that can have flow on effects.  In a strong bull market, traders forgive these sorts of things and move on.  In the current climate it can be the hair that breaks the camel's back, if you catch my drift.


----------



## pjemmett (18 August 2010)

It's highly likely that CDU's threatened law suit was entirely designed to stunt criticism in the knowledge that a hugely disappointing JORC was about to be announced.
The MD Wayne MacCrae can hide behind lawyers for so long but eventually he will have to face shareholders at an AGM. Of course he may try to hold the next AGM in Alpurrurulam, Northern Territory to avoid the shareholders queuing up to tell what a good chap he is. Lots of people myself included have been financially hurt by this. Perhaps a class action against CDU might be in order.


----------



## prawn_86 (18 August 2010)

pjemmett said:


> Lots of people myself included have been financially hurt by this. Perhaps a class action against CDU might be in order.






UBIQUITOUS said:


> Not looking good. Not looking good at all!! Oh well...that's the life of a Hotcopper stock!




These 2 quotes should be restated to show the unscrupulous nature of some forums. Usually members there would just argue amongst themselves and tell each other it will all be ok once they sue (which never happens), but they cant do this now so perhaps this has woken many up to certain dodgier pump and dump strategies.


----------



## alphaman (18 August 2010)

skc said:


> Anyone like to put a valuation based on these resource numbers? The market is saying the ~38,500 tonnes of copper is worth $360m, or over $9,000 per tonne (in the grounds no less). Doesn't seem to make sense as copper is only worth ~$7500-8000 per tonne.
> 
> Have I got the numbers wrong? Or more share price falls to come?



FitzGerald says "Rocklands barely makes it as a development opportunity", so you are probably right.


----------



## adds4 (18 August 2010)

alphaman said:


> FitzGerald says "Rocklands barely makes it as a development opportunity", so you are probably right.




380,562 tonnes of copper or around $3b worth. If the mine has a 20 yr life, thats about 20,000 tonnes of copper a yr, or about 160m revenue. The net profit would be ?


----------



## pilots (18 August 2010)

alphaman said:


> FitzGerald says "Rocklands barely makes it as a development opportunity", so you are probably right.




How do we know the numbers they gave out to day are correct, hell after 4 years and thats all they can come up with??? This is NOT a mine.


----------



## hippo (18 August 2010)

*So *that's* why it's called Hot Copper!*

Oh the irony of CDU investors ramping each other to oblivion on HOT COPPER.


----------



## prawn_86 (18 August 2010)

adds4 said:


> 380,562 tonnes of copper or around $3b worth. If the mine has a 20 yr life, thats about 20,000 tonnes of copper a yr, or about 160m revenue. The net profit would be ?




The net profit would be a hell of a lot less than the current market cap, and thats before they have even began to plan for mining.


----------



## UBIQUITOUS (18 August 2010)

http://m.smh.com.au/business/southern-dickheads-proved-right-on-cudeco-20100818-12bch.html

Haha! This journo obviously has a bone to pick!


----------



## Sean K (18 August 2010)

Was the sell off today overdone?

Just on the surface of it to me it seems sentiment has gone too far the opposite direction.

Some of the figures produced, comparing it to Cadia, for example, look ok on quick glance. 

Or, maybe they're stuffed?

Still just smoke and mirrors perhaps.


----------



## pjemmett (18 August 2010)

The 31MT are designed as input for 10 years to a 3MT per year processing plant. At 1.24% that makes 37000 tons of Cu equivalent per year, at around $A8,000 a ton (current, but very likely to rise) that makes $A296M per year revenue, say 30% costs then we arrive at around $A200 a year or approximately $1.50 per share per year. A P/E of 7 (just for arguments sake) and we have a reasonable share price of $A10 per share. Looking at the broader resources at Rocklands (245MT @ 0.42% ) and it's still very much a going concern for at least 40years, however the figures of $A100 a share that were being banded around is obviously unrealistic.
 Has the selling been overdone ?, absolutely !!


----------



## scanspeak (18 August 2010)

Thanks Pjemmett - good to see someone is doing the sums rather than sticking the boot in like the mob.

Now that the JORC is FINALLY out, it will provide a baseline and de-risks the project. Big institutions will feel more comfortable buying in.

Lets also not forget that the JORC was a very conservative figure, almost certainly with a 10% native copper cutoff figure. The actual native copper is far higher in the bonanza zones. There's also numerous other strong zones of of exploration which will provide further upside.

Way oversold, but an expected reaction after so much build up of expectations for so long. I wonder how long before the bargain-hunters dive in.


----------



## jancha (18 August 2010)

scanspeak said:


> Thanks Pjemmett - good to see someone is doing the sums rather than sticking the boot in like the mob.
> 
> Now that the JORC is FINALLY out, it will provide a baseline and de-risks the project. Big institutions will feel more comfortable buying in.
> 
> ...




Why would you want to put your money in the management of this company?
imo your money would be better spent elsewhere.


----------



## UBIQUITOUS (18 August 2010)

jancha said:


> Why would you want to put your money in the management of this company?
> imo your money would be better spent elsewhere.




Absolutely.

There are 2 issues here:

1. The resource
2. The management


----------



## crisstoff (18 August 2010)

pjemment, 

dont forget to allow dilution of shares for future capital raising including to set up the Plant.


----------



## Sean K (18 August 2010)

crisstoff said:


> pjemment,
> 
> dont forget to allow dilution of shares for future capital raising including to set up the Plant.



What is the likely capex for this?

Will they even get to a point where capex is an issue, or just keep drilling?

Wayne says:



> I envisage the Rocklands tenement will require another 5 years of exploration before we can say we have completed a thorough geological investigation of all areas identified as high probability target zones for mineralisation.




eeeek


----------



## scanspeak (18 August 2010)

jancha said:


> Why would you want to put your money in the management of this company?
> imo your money would be better spent elsewhere.




245 Mt @ 0.42% CuEq isn't too shabby and thats very conservative.

$40M in the bank and the MOU with Sinosteel will take care of the rest.

Amazing bargain at these prices and once the dust settles, the smart money will realise it.


----------



## soho (18 August 2010)

wow, just wow... 

what a day, what a week, what a month, what a ride... 

dont completely understand it, 30mt was about the expected resource from what i remember? 1.24% is a little slim, but no big deal... 

simple case of buy the rumor, sell the news!

makes a mockery of the companies buy back strategy... 

the stock will get thrashed tomorrow morning... probably over sold, but who knows... markets are not rational... it could go much lower... 

the company will probably get taken over soon, or management thrown out...


----------



## scanspeak (18 August 2010)

A decent rebound is far more likely IMO, but who knows ...
Expect some positive annoucements and more buybacks.


----------



## scanspeak (18 August 2010)

Will history repeat?

Note the strong support around $2.50 (which is also the 50% Fib level from $5).
Around $3.30 is the 66% retracement.

After July 2006's meltdown, the stock bounced back to the $3.30 level a week later and steadily recovered from there to be back around $4.00 a month later.


----------



## financial chat (18 August 2010)

soho,

re your comment "dont completely understand it, 30mt was about the expected resource from what i remember? 1.24% is a little slim, but no big deal... "

They were expected to have 100mt, they were talking 59mt 4 years ago, so it is an absolute disaster for holders.


31Mt at 0.8%Cu and 0.1 g/t Au is actually less valuable than EXS in pit inventories for the Cloncurry Project!


Surprised CDU haven't been slammed harder. 


No way they should be worth what they still are.


----------



## scanspeak (19 August 2010)

Just for clarification :

JORC July 2006 - 59Mt @ 2% CuEq inferred 

JORC Aug  2010

- 31Mt @ 1.24% CuEq measured (0.8% cutoff)
- 151Mt @ 0.47% CuEq measured/indicated (0.15% cutoff)
- 245Mt @ 0.42% CuEq measured/indicated/inferred (0.15% cutoff)

The resource has quadrupled in size (59Mt to 245Mt), albeit at lower %.

IMO the lower 1.24% measured figure is mainly due to JORC capping of the native-copper figures to 10% when they are in reality often 10-20%. See here
http://www.cudeco.com.au/pdf/CDUAnnounce21.10.08.pdf

Yeah its obviously disappointing that the numbers aren't higher, but a LOT of progress has been made.
Hopefully management learnt a lesson and from here on we get regular JORC updates to prevent future speculation and surprises.


----------



## DVEOUS (19 August 2010)

Gringotts Bank said:


> (I like it here because it's free from nazi moderators hell bent on preventing people saying naughty words).



LOL!
Gee, I wonder which forum you are referring to? !!

I've been moderated on more than once occasion for using the word "bugger".
Despite it being in common everyday use, it took a while to work out that was actually a problem word there.  The moderator(s) reasons were always vague, and they might refer you to a code of conduct that doesn't actually make mention of any banned words. 

What a joke, since when is "bugger" considered vulgar?
Maybe somebody should have told Toyota not to use that word in their TV commercials.

Sorry, off topic guys, but that comment did make me have a (much needed) laugh!

And good luck to CDU holders for a recovery.


----------



## scanspeak (19 August 2010)

financial chat said:


> soho,
> 
> re your comment "dont completely understand it, 30mt was about the expected resource from what i remember? 1.24% is a little slim, but no big deal... "
> They were expected to have 100mt, they were talking 59mt 4 years ago, so it is an absolute disaster for holders.31Mt at 0.8%Cu and 0.1 g/t Au is actually less valuable than EXS in pit inventories for the Cloncurry Project!Surprised CDU haven't been slammed harder.
> No way they should be worth what they still are.





As Pjemmett elegantly calculated, now that we finally know how much copper we're sitting on, we can conservatively expect a share-price of around $10 when production begins (2012) using a P.E. of 7. 

Thats a 400% improvement on todays price in 18-24 months, conservatively, and that doesnt factor in JORC updates, predators, rising copper prices, Wilgar drilling, and other discoveries.

I'm staying the course.


----------



## UBIQUITOUS (19 August 2010)

scanspeak said:


> As Pjemmett elegantly calculated, now that we finally know how much copper we're sitting on, we can conservatively expect a share-price of around $10 *when production begins (2012)* using a P.E. of 7.
> 
> Thats a 400% improvement on todays price in 18-24 months, conservatively, and that doesnt factor in JORC updates, predators, rising copper prices, Wilgar drilling, and other discoveries.
> 
> I'm staying the course.




Production begins in 2012? Didn't they say that there is to be another 5 years of drilling?


----------



## skc (19 August 2010)

pjemmett said:


> The 31MT are designed as input for 10 years to a 3MT per year processing plant. At 1.24% that makes 37000 tons of Cu equivalent per year, at around $A8,000 a ton (current, but very likely to rise) that makes $A296M per year revenue, say 30% costs then we arrive at around $A200 a year or approximately $1.50 per share per year. A P/E of 7 (just for arguments sake) and we have a reasonable share price of $A10 per share. Looking at the broader resources at Rocklands (245MT @ 0.42% ) and it's still very much a going concern for at least 40years, however the figures of $A100 a share that were being banded around is obviously unrealistic.
> Has the selling been overdone ?, absolutely !!






scanspeak said:


> As Pjemmett elegantly calculated, now that we finally know how much copper we're sitting on, we can conservatively expect a share-price of around $10 when production begins (2012) using a P.E. of 7.
> 
> Thats a 400% improvement on todays price in 18-24 months, conservatively, and that doesnt factor in JORC updates, predators, rising copper prices, Wilgar drilling, and other discoveries.
> 
> I'm staying the course.




I am no mining expert but do copper companies run on a gross margin of 70% revenue? Take EQN they earned $425m in copper revenue and got $205m cashflow from that. So ~50% cashflow from revenue might be a guide?

Plus a 10yr mine life doesn't warrant a PE of 7. If you discount the 10 year cash flow (starting in 2 years) by 12% the equivalent PE is ~4.5.

Lastly there is no mine yet! What is the capex? 

On $300m revenue per year generating 50% cash flow with PE ~4.5, the NPV today is $650-700m. Subtract whatever capex is appropriate ($300m? $500m?) and you get the value of the mine itself. 

The rest of the price you pay will be for more resource upgrades from Rocklands. But it will be difficult to say that the mine alone is worth $10 a share based on current resource estimates.


----------



## Agentm (19 August 2010)

what i find interesting is that despite the sentiment, there was plenty of buyers out there more than willing to take it all up..

there is value seen in the share by some investors imho, and of course the ones selling are happy to leave in the belief the game is over for cdu..

i think the sheep on hc had no clue what to do and ran blindly over a cliff in unison myself..


----------



## soho (19 August 2010)

its going to be ugly at open... you'll be able to buy this stock in the $1's today...

hard to know whether to sell the stock and take the loss or stick the course...  dont want to have to believe (or hope) in best case scenarios to justify this stocks spot in my portfolio...

lucky my original position was only $5k... thats nothing compared to some...


----------



## UBIQUITOUS (19 August 2010)

soho said:


> its going to be ugly at open... you'll be able to buy this stock in the $1's today...
> 
> hard to know whether to sell the stock and take the loss or stick the course...  dont want to have to believe (or hope) in best case scenarios to justify this stocks spot in my portfolio...
> 
> lucky my original position was only $5k... thats nothing compared to some...




The company is still worth about $300m!!!! In my opinion, that is far too high considering that the dream has been shattered.


----------



## prawn_86 (19 August 2010)

soho said:


> its going to be ugly at open... you'll be able to buy this stock in the $1's today...




Soho (and other new members),

Please note it is an ASF rule that if you are going to post a price target that it needs to be supported by the reasons why you think this. Simply saying you think it will open at a price, without analysis, is considered as a ramp/fdownramp and will be removed.

I suggest all new members read the site rules and guidelines.

Thanks


----------



## scanspeak (19 August 2010)

There's 240MT - the mine life will be 40+ years.

10 years refers to mining the 30MT bonanza zone (commencing 2012) and obviously they'll be drilling other promising targets - Wilgur, Salisbury, and others during this time.


----------



## scanspeak (19 August 2010)

UBIQUITOUS said:


> The company is still worth about $300m!!!! In my opinion, that is far too high considering that the dream has been shattered.




Dream shattered? No. More like a splash of cold water.
The bonanza zone alone contains $2.5Billion of copper - the JORC proves it.

Looks like bargain hunters are moving in.


----------



## soho (19 August 2010)

prawn_86 said:


> Soho (and other new members),
> 
> Please note it is an ASF rule that if you are going to post a price target that it needs to be supported by the reasons why you think this. Simply saying you think it will open at a price, without analysis, is considered as a ramp/fdownramp and will be removed.




sorry... was just an opinion... like: "The company is still worth about $300m!!!! In my opinion, that is far too high considering that the dream has been shattered."

should i have said "in my opinion you will be able to buy this stock in the $1's today"...?

what kind of reasons do we need to give to support this opinion? "my dog just barked at a bird, so i think cdu is going to get smashed at open"... is that a reason?

anyway, looks like cdu has bounced... almost got to the 1's...


----------



## Joe Blow (19 August 2010)

soho said:


> should i have said "in my opinion you will be able to buy this stock in the $1's today"...?




How about something like, "If CDU continues to get hammered by sellers again today it *may* trade below the $2 mark". It's always a good idea to qualify your remarks if it's just speculation. 

Those who make definite assertions (e.g. "This stock is undervalued", "This stock is overvalued", "This stock will bounce back to the $3 mark today") must back up those assertions with some analysis or reasoning to support their point of view.



soho said:


> what kind of reasons do we need to give to support this opinion? "my dog just barked at a bird, so i think cdu is going to get smashed at open"... is that a reason?




If you are unable to explain the relationship between your dog barking at a bird and CDU getting smashed at the open it will probably result in your post being removed.


----------



## scanspeak (19 August 2010)

Something for the cool heads.
Market cap currenty around $350 Million and sitting on a $8Billion dollar resource.


http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2010/0...t-business.html

I







> NVESTORS dumped copper explorer CuDeco's shares yesterday, almost halving the company's value after the release of a long-awaited resource update.
> 
> The dash to the exits wiped $320 million from the company's value, despite CuDeco doubling its total resource estimate for the Rocklands project near Cloncurry.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sean K (19 August 2010)

skc said:


> On $300m revenue per year generating 50% cash flow with PE ~4.5, the NPV today is $650-700m. Subtract whatever capex is appropriate ($300m? $500m?) and you get the value of the mine itself.



EQN Capex was about $900m.

Their Opex is about $1.50-60 a lb.

Not sure if they're comparable though due to country and plant size.

Never seen a net income being done by % cashflow before.


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## JnrTrader (19 August 2010)

The resource estimate was well below expectations, and therefore, a sell off was the result.  But, nobody knows the true value, people just guesstimate, and it’s here where you can make the real money.  Find the point of oversold, and buy in, because while the market is irrational now, it will correct and we will find CDU’s true market value when the dust settles.

My guesstimate is that cdu have a way to fall yet, basically, IMO, the result was a disgrace.  After the promise by WM and his team, the 100t resource was expected, measured and indicated may i add.

In 2006, cdu reported 25mt @ 3% cu inferred AFTER originally reporting 75mt @2%

Pie in the face or what?

4 years of drilling, 260,000 metres, over 100m of investors cash, and all they can come up with is 5mt extra, yet a poorer grade results in less contained copper.  What a flop IMO


Its very very poor, and i think this will fall below $2

While i note that total resource is 245mt @0.46% copper, this mostly inferred until more drilling is made

I think the 3mpta mine will go ahead....but im not 100% convinced yet.

This will result in approx 300m revenue p.a on average over the 10 years, ending with about 35-85m in net income p.a on average

With a P.E of about 12, and 300m shares on issue, we get a fair market price of $2.00-3.00

You may say why i have added an extra 150m shares, well they need further funding to build the mine.  150m at $2 p.s if they are lucky to get this price, results in 300m cash to build the mine, they may not need this amount, perhaps 150m is enough, and the rest from sinosteel or whatever happens.

Finally, IMO, the days of dreaming of a SP over $10 is well and truly all over
Best case scenario, xstrata come along and buy out cdu for about 500m bucks once the mine has been built and the revenue stream is consistent, but even then, there are probably better opportunities elsewhere.

So much for all of WM’s hard earned going into cdu stock, and the company’s continuous buybacks.

Unless there has been a big mistake in the resource measurement, WM needs to consider his SH next time he talks up an elephant when in fact it’s a mouse, you can’t possibly confuse the two...


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## Gringotts Bank (19 August 2010)

People leaving HC in droves.  Good thing.  The way the mob fawn over trade4profit (CVI GDN CDU - great record there) and robbb who uses the site to advertise his paid seminars to learn how to draw "speed angles" then sell private one-on-one time, is crazy.   And they are the two most voted for posters - says a lot about the sheep on there.  

The best ever poster  on that site was Ipod and they ousted him for having a go at the self-righteous wankers in position of moderator.  He absolutely ruled the daytrade thread because he _actually made money_.  No one else there does... maybe kevi but he ramps like crazy the second he buys anything, then sells into the volume.  

HC deletes whatever they want whenever it suits them best.  While I detest macraes attitude, he and hotcopper are a good match.  Let them sue each other into oblivion.


----------



## skc (19 August 2010)

kennas said:


> EQN Capex was about $900m.
> 
> Their Opex is about $1.50-60 a lb.
> 
> ...




I only had access to EQN's latest half year financials and was trying to use a short cut method based on the relationship between revenue and free cash flow (so I can work out an NPV). Not the most scientific or accurate, but quick and dirty was what I was after. 

The capex as per latest CDU announcement was $150-200m.

Based on this, the mine (if built) is probably worth ~$400m, which is probably a bit higher than the current market cap of ~$315m. So may be oversold afterall?


----------



## vimuttirasa (19 August 2010)

GB - "People leaving HC in droves"

Do you have any evidence to support this? 

Having been moderated and suspended from HC a few times I can see where your criticisms come from. They are heavy-handed & reactive. I do like the HC "platform" though - it's more intuitive & easy to navigate. The content, though, is another matter. You get good & bad posters on all forums, so it's hard to judge. 

I have been badly cut trying to catch falling knives before, most recently with ELD - so I'm going to sit out this one with CDU for another day at least & see where the floor is, before trading on a bounce.


----------



## Sean K (19 August 2010)

skc said:


> I only had access to EQN's latest half year financials and was trying to use a short cut method based on the relationship between revenue and free cash flow (so I can work out an NPV). Not the most scientific or accurate, but quick and dirty was what I was after.
> 
> The capex as per latest CDU announcement was $150-200m.
> 
> Based on this, the mine (if built) is probably worth ~$400m, which is probably a bit higher than the current market cap of ~$315m. So may be oversold afterall?



I find that Capex hard to believe, on the surface of it. Must look in to it more I suppose.

EQN took 10 years and $841m to develop.


----------



## Sean K (19 August 2010)

vimuttirasa said:


> GB - "People leaving HC in droves"
> 
> Do you have any evidence to support this?



Looks like about 5 people who have droved over to ASF. 

trade4profit was a CDU fan eh? lol

Can't get them all right of course.

Everyone has a bad pick, or two.


----------



## pjemmett (19 August 2010)

The latest announcement from CDU at 16.15 this evening indicates that the company will mine the high grade ore for the first 4 years, this is 12MT at 2.05% Cu equivalent. At current copper prices that SA480M pa. With a CAPEX of $A150-200M and high grade ore resulting low OPEX I would guess that a total profit of around $A1B for the 4 years is possible. That make $A2.32 ps sound very cheap to me... Just my opinion, what the heck would I know.


----------



## Sean K (19 August 2010)

pjemmett said:


> With a CAPEX of $A150-200M and high grade ore resulting low OPEX



Sorry pj, but can you give a reference to the Capex numbers. Appologies, I haven't been following this one that close. Cheers,


----------



## pjemmett (19 August 2010)

Certainly, From todays ASX announcement titled "Appointment of Corporate Adviser"

Having released the Company’s resource upgrade announcement, Cudeco now intends to engage with a number of parties who have approached the Company with a desire to invest in the Rocklands Project. The total capital expenditure requirements at Rocklands are estimated to be between A$150m - $200m. Azure will manage a structured process to seek expressions of interest from potential investors and select a preferred party based on the CuDeco directors’ criteria for a strategic partner. It is anticipated that the Company will grant data room access to selected parties in September 2010 and that non binding offers of funding subject to due diligence will be sought during the fourth quarter, with a decision on the final binding funding package by late 2010 or early 2011.

Hope this helps..PJ


----------



## adds4 (20 August 2010)

isnt it the 30mt the banks, companies and institutions look at when lending money for the mine. The 245mt is only an estimate on what COULD be there, once all drilling is complete.


----------



## freebird54 (20 August 2010)

Be wary on this forum - the HC rampers will be here soon if not already

Some friends have lost lots here - I warned them.

Disc.

I have bought and am still buying a real miner this week.

I traded CDU many times for a small profit.


----------



## Agentm (20 August 2010)

freebird54 said:


> Be wary on this forum - the HC rampers will be here soon if not already
> 
> Some friends have lost lots here - I warned them.
> 
> ...




buying a real miner is obviously a choice you have made, and well done for spotting one i say..

re your firends having "lost lots here - I warned them"

Common sense is in spite of, not as the result of education.


----------



## crayfish (20 August 2010)

scanspeak said:


> Just for clarification :
> 
> JORC July 2006 - 59Mt @ 2% CuEq inferred
> 
> ...




My sums say that ~60Mt @ 2% Cu (inferred, 2006) is the same amount of metal as ~240Mt @ 0.5% Cu (inferred, 2010). Sure the latest/overdue inferred resource estimate has 4x the tonnage, but it also has 1/4 of the grade. 

i.e. 4 years of work for NO extra metal

So does anyone think this track record means we should expect the resource (in tonnes of Cu metal in the ground) to increase considerably in the future?


----------



## buysellmestuffed (21 August 2010)

Don't know why there raising capital or seeking partners when Xstra are just up the road , they could truck it up to Mt Isa and get it processed and shipped out via rail , it's all there , and i'm pretty sure that there not releasing anymore smelters out that way . 

Seems they've waited years for what,   research ? They found it why not process it .


----------



## blackjack (23 August 2010)

can punters that had stop losses let me know what price they got out at
as i would like to see how many were convinved that this was a sure thing or how many were cautious


----------



## Agentm (24 August 2010)

blackjack said:


> can punters that had stop losses let me know what price they got out at
> as i would like to see how many were convinved that this was a sure thing or how many were cautious




mine are the opening price of today $1.63. does that help you with your calculations?

followed cdu since day 1, and happy to have a few today..


----------



## Transient (26 August 2010)

adds4 said:


> isnt it the 30mt the banks, companies and institutions look at when lending money for the mine. The 245mt is only an estimate on what COULD be there, once all drilling is complete.




No. Both figures are "Resource", but using different cut-offs. Banks lend money on "Reserves".

They have been working on this Resource for 4 years and do not have any Reserve figures. That is very suspicious. Especially since most of their Resource is classified as either Indicated or Measured.

Since there is no Reserve, how can we tell if the grade cut-offs used are based in reality or numbers pulled from the air. How can we trust the "3 mtpa" figure?


----------



## UBIQUITOUS (26 August 2010)

Transient said:


> No. Both figures are "Resource", but using different cut-offs. Banks lend money on "Reserves".
> 
> They have been working on this Resource for 4 years and do not have any Reserve figures. That is very suspicious. Especially since most of their Resource is classified as either Indicated or Measured.
> 
> Since there is no Reserve, how can we tell if the grade cut-offs used are based in reality or numbers pulled from the air.* How can we trust the "3 mtpa" figure?*




This is the key issue. How can you trust management? I had a 'near death' experience with another company where I trusted the board, but shouldn't have. I will not invest in a company where I even have the slightest doubt about the quality and integrity of management, no matter what the prospects of the company.


----------



## blackjack (26 August 2010)

freebird54 said:


> Be wary on this forum - the HC rampers will be here soon if not already
> 
> Some friends have lost lots here - I warned them.
> 
> ...




what mine is that? as its like fishing what u have said
you put on the bait and let her loose and so now im biting


----------



## financial chat (1 September 2010)

strachan says holders of cdu should sell 

It looks like another analyst has called a sell call on CDU.

Recommendation: CuDeco took anextraordinary length time to update its mineral Resource at Rocklands. Copper and gold grades reported were much lower than the marketand StockAnalysis had expected,based on drill results reported.

CuDeco had not presented long or cross sections of its ore bodies to show the geometry of its mineralisation, without which accurate estimation of tonnes and grade was difficult. The stock remains a sell at current prices.


----------



## financial chat (7 September 2010)

The ASX need to take action with the company about its apparent disregard for keeping the whole market informed.

The announcement released at 5.18pm is flagged as price sensitive but it appeared as a matter of discussion all day and last night on a number of share forum websites as well. 

Additionally, the matter was reported in full in the Financial Review, but the company did not see fit to release the announcement until after the close of the market today.

In my opinion, this is a flagrant disregard for the rules of disclosure.

Does Wayne not understand rules have to be complied with if he intends to keeps his company listed?

Years ago, companies were suspended from trading for this type of breach, and remained suspended until they could provide a guarantee that they would comply with ASX regulations.


----------



## Miner (7 September 2010)

financial chat said:


> strachan says holders of cdu should sell
> 
> It looks like another analyst has called a sell call on CDU.
> 
> ...






financial chat said:


> The ASX need to take action with the company about its apparent disregard for keeping the whole market informed.
> 
> The announcement released at 5.18pm is flagged as price sensitive but it appeared as a matter of discussion all day and last night on a number of share forum websites as well.
> 
> ...




Hi Financial Chat

I do nto have Peter's article but what he substantiated behind his SELL call for CDU ?  He got recent fame in ABC and some of the conferences recently. In not too distant ago, he used to claim as an expert in oil and gas if my memory chip is working okay. Of late he has become expert in all resources and that includes uranium, copper, gold etc . It is easy now a days with lots of disclaimers but I always test with a grain of salt.

Did you try to ask Wayne about the reason for his lack of disclosure ?

I personally think CDU has great strength because until the fall flat resource estimation it was darling for many of the investors and traders. With copper rise IMO it should do well. 

It will be only matter of time to see in next 6 months scneario.

Disclaimer - DNH and do not participate in  HotCopper discussion .


----------



## Sean K (7 September 2010)

financial chat said:


> The ASX need to take action with the company about its apparent disregard for keeping the whole market informed.
> 
> The announcement released at 5.18pm is flagged as price sensitive but it appeared as a matter of discussion all day and last night on a number of share forum websites as well.



Well, I don't know how the law suite against Hot Crapper could be price sensitive. Whoever decided that at ASX HQ must be a member of HC because really, how could that be material to the company. Bamboozling actually. If a company is price sensitive to some anonymous avatars saying they are crap, then they should take a very hard look at themselves.....


----------



## skc (14 December 2010)

3 months on from the big fall... CDU has risen from low of $1.63 to today's 4.64, thereby completing the mother of all gap close.

Where to next?


----------



## blackjack (14 December 2010)

skc said:


> 3 months on from the big fall... CDU has risen from low of $1.63 to today's 4.64, thereby completing the mother of all gap close.
> 
> Where to next?




well someone certainly made money on this
didnt they
looking back things seem pretty obvious


----------



## Agentm (14 December 2010)

blackjack said:


> well someone certainly made money on this
> didnt they
> looking back things seem pretty obvious




guilty as charged

been following since the first day.. got a nice lot at $2 a few months back

cant say i believed the garbage $1.70 tripe..  so i cleaned up..

no intention of selling..

most hate the fact i bought in, and i get criticised for saying i bought up big, but big deal, build a bridge and get over it, i saw value where others didnt..

good luck to anyone seeing the upside like i did..


----------



## Sean K (15 December 2010)

kennas said:


> Was the sell off today overdone?
> 
> Just on the surface of it to me it seems sentiment has gone too far the opposite direction.
> 
> ...



Hm, maybe overdone?

Would have been game to buy.

Who Dares Wins.


----------



## ParleVouFrancois (15 December 2010)

I for one admire the balls of steel that was required to buy after such a big fall in price. I must say I had a look at the companies fundamentals a few times at sub 2 dollars but I couldn't really decisively decide one way or another as to where CDU is going. You're always told to *never* catch a falling knife, and buying at around $1.70 is doing just that, so I admire going against conventional wisdom to buy at a time such as that.

Good stuff to the people who held on, shows you that sometimes the company can come back, and hopefully we'll have less people investing their entire life savings into a single company (read a few threads on HC, horrible stuff and I have no idea how bad it would've felt to watch half/two thirds of your life savings go up in smoke). Luckily CDU is back and firing again, good luck to the holders, CDU will always be one of those companies I've had a close look at but can't decide to buy for some reason or another.

PVF.


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## Nero64 (6 September 2011)

This stock has been in a trading halt for several weeks. 

_The company requests a voluntary suspension of the trading of its shares. 

The company is in the final stages of completing a placement to a number of investors and believes it is prudent to suspend the trading of its shares until the terms of the deal can be disclosed to the market_

Surely it doesn't take this long. I say get on with it.


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## turboprop (3 December 2011)

*CUDECO / DIVIDENDS*

i rarely post and may be posting in the wrong area ,, i have also started the same thread in another area long term holds ? however i think it remiss of me not to bring this little champ to the forums attention ,, 
CUDECO ASX:CDU 

well cdu finally has its mining licence . also is doing a rail spur in cloncurry that will facilitate larger movement of ores in qld and from the nth territory . it also has a port facility in townsville .. they also have there own mining fleet , all infrastructure /mine fleet bought at a great discount . the jorc code only enabled cdu to come out with a 1.7 cueq,, however it is envisaged this will more than double with the addition of native copper .at lasmin etc ... wilgar /and the south west corner are looking like the next stand out on this 20sq tenement ,which seems to be completely minerolised with 1 metal or another and at high grades ..  the ceo will be doing road shows in asia and australia . the rise in share price in the last week IMHO is due to many finally realiseing cdu hasthe good . with less than 200m shares and a very tight register .there are pressently 2 m shares shorted , which IMHO with so much news due is a big mistake and a catalyst for old highs to be reached once again but this time sustained , wilgar for instance looks to be widening with massive gold silver tellurides ..  there are also extensions at depth to lasmin.. ..... rainden / solburyhill and fairfield also continue to extend . there are many anomalies on or near surface and at depth , to the bottom of the south west corner for instance there is a new anomaly that seems to be 1.5klm long and 200mtr wide registering 1.4cu and also tellurides this area IMHO may be like wilgar , the tenement has 2 distinctive and different areas of geology ;;; eg,, anomalies  ...lasmin /rainden .solburyhill. fairfield to mention a few ...and the other being wilgar / and the sth west corner  . this is a very exciting time for cdu imho and it is being reflected in the share price atm  . with there minimal share issue and tight register .and a very low strip ratio due to much of the deposit starting on or near surface ..


----------



## tech/a (3 December 2011)

*Re: CUDECO / DIVIDENDS*

Nice and strong technically.
Like it

*Click to expand*

.


----------



## pilots (3 December 2011)

They DON'T have a port or a rail line, they ONLY have a MOU on it.
Yes they will have a mine, but just look how small it is. Now if this was going to be any good at all you would see Australian investors climbing all over it, they don't want a bar of it, you tell me WHY.


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## turboprop (5 December 2011)

*pilots put up or sht up need i say more ? mr perth*

port th own it , they gazumped bhp .bh wantsit back and failed .. re rail cloncurry council love cdu pure and smple ......re mine ... now consideriing the jorc does not take into consideration much of the nativecopper i would assume over 3% easily attainable ,this is a large area and at depth . also take into consideratin 30 other target most very reasonable assays .. also wilgar ?? yes itafoot ball feildbut its extending  and with grades they are getting is big anyway .. swcorner also has tellurides / copper etc etc etc ,, atm cdu look likebringing n board a massive investe fom china .16dec ... wayno doing a road show in australia jan feb next yr , sadly imho to late for aussie instos ... now somone seriously buyin this last week with cdu closing on the high of the day twice , i can see the $10 high attainable in the not to distant future  . sealed road 1/2 payed for by cloncurrycounil go figure lol....   ,,pilots do some research on cdu  a company that willl have a strip ratio about 4 : 1 ,,,  sound some what proffitable ? sfr strip ration ?? about 70:1  not so profitable lol


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## turboprop (5 December 2011)

*Re: CUDECO / DIVIDENDS*

i surely have to agree there are not many  chartts so inticing .the weekly looks great .and i can see all time highs easily attainable in the not to distant future . the road show will reveal all jan / feb ... large players possitioning atm with new ones to join the party soon ,more results will also be forthcoming at regular intervilles , the port and rail should be  operational roughly august ..  i know i would not like to be short atm and there is a substantial short possition at present , just like when  it ran to $10 .. however this time cdu has the mine lease  and much much more .. watch for the nw invester comig on board : re dividends with astrip ratio around 4:1 and a resource starting from surface these will be a certainty


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## pilots (5 December 2011)

David you talk about charts, look at CDUs, EVERY time it gos up, it comes DOWN, this time will be no different, what have they found this time, Diamonds,LOL.LOL.
This is CAZ,CVI,GDN, all over again, it is the same ramp team.


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## turboprop (5 December 2011)

pilots i do not know whom you refer to ,however it seems you are using the same tactic as  on that other forum which inmo adds nothing to the discussion imho talk T/a . or known asx anouncement news ,, not drinbble which lowers aussiestock name , the cdu chart atm looks excellent imho


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## prawn_86 (5 December 2011)

turboprop said:


> the cdu chart atm looks excellent imho




If this is the case then i suggest you post the chart and tell us what exactly looks so good about it. We have many skilled technical analysts here that would love to see the chart and comment on it.

If you need help on how to post a chart you can get it here:
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=21

Any further posts mentioning the chart, without a recent one shown (or quoting posts conatining one) will be removed as per ASF policy


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## turboprop (6 December 2011)

*Re: CUDECO / DIVIDENDS*

CDU NOW HAVE (1) MINING LICENCE . (2) ALL FUNDING DONE (3) FUNDS BUYING ON MARKET (4) A ROAD SHOW IN ASIA AND AUSTRALIA SOON ( 5) EXCELLENT RESEOURCE AND GETTING BIGGER (6)CLOSE TO INFRASTRUCTURE (7) BACKING BY TWONSVILLE ANCLONCURRY COUNCILS AND ALSO THE QLD GOVT (8) MINIG FLEET ACQUIRED (9) PLANT PAID FOR AND BEING BUILT .IMHO ONE OR TWO VALID REASONS FOR A RISE (10) LARGE SHORT POSSITION BEING SQUEEZED ATM (11) on or near suface deposit with multiple anomalies (12) low strip ratio roughly 4;1 , hence dividends easily acheiveable anbeing on surface expected  year 1


----------



## pilots (6 December 2011)

*Re: CUDECO / DIVIDENDS*



turboprop said:


> CDU NOW HAVE (1) MINING LICENCE . (2) ALL FUNDING DONE (3) FUNDS BUYING ON MARKET (4) A ROAD SHOW IN ASIA AND AUSTRALIA SOON ( 5) EXCELLENT RESEOURCE AND GETTING BIGGER (6)CLOSE TO INFRASTRUCTURE (7) BACKING BY TWONSVILLE ANCLONCURRY COUNCILS AND ALSO THE QLD GOVT (8) MINIG FLEET ACQUIRED (9) PLANT PAID FOR AND BEING BUILT .IMHO ONE OR TWO VALID REASONS FOR A RISE (10) LARGE SHORT POSSITION BEING SQUEEZED ATM (11) on or near suface deposit with multiple anomalies (12) low strip ratio roughly 4;1 , hence dividends easily acheiveable anbeing on surface expected  year 1




Mr Bond, 1 CDU do NOT have all the funding need to mine. FACT MORE IS NEEDED.
             2  Excellent  resource, joke, as big as a football field, what about a BFS/DFS.
             3 Infrastructure WHAT  INFRASTRUCTURE???????????
             4 Mining fleet, LOL.LOL.LOL.LOL.LOL.LOL.LOL.
             5 Plant WHAT PLANT?????????????????
             6 Why is it that no Australian company wants a Bar of CDU???????


----------



## turboprop (6 December 2011)

*Re: CUDECO / DIVIDENDS*

pilots your post has no facts o substance i would suggest you look at asx a nouncements .instead of misleading the foum .
(1)1 lasmin etc ,the initial mine --- is quite large and due to jorc code understated but still able to pay for itsself .this is the reason cdu has been able to raise many $millions . the footballfield is wilgar . and dont forget  many other anomalies of which anyone would be a company maker..
(2) close to rail .close to main rd . plant paid for and being built. rail spur / and port facility to be online roughly august  (bhp not happy   ) 
  (3) mine fleet prepped and ready to go ,, just have a sqizz on the cdu website ,,and bought at gfc prices 

(4) sino steel building the  plamt atm read the asx 

(5) australian road show will commence after the asian road show ,,,  



re the plant cdu did not just do lab tests for plant design but did mass tonnage tests ,,, any opinion pilots ???   go on say it ...dont be shy


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## pilots (6 December 2011)

Tell us about the mass tonnage tests, what was the result of them, they was hand picked so they should have been good. You are going to have a port and rail on line AUGUST,are you for real.


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## turboprop (7 December 2011)

bulk tests were to determine the best process plant aplication ,,, mostcompanies do lab tests build a plant then spend $100m to fix problems after the fact ,, cdu by beng is pro active  and doing a large test has the best out know already ..   re port / rail . pilots dont sress its all beingtaken care of ,, i would suggest a weee bit more factual research on your part


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## turboprop (8 December 2011)

*WILGAR RECOVERIES*

It may be noted that wilgar is being tested for recoveries ,if they are  anything like the lasmin area tests these will be extensive and done to a high degree of proffessionalism .much like the bulk tests and EIS  . interestingly cdu is ow in another trading halt re financing ,interestingly  the short possition has increased to over 2mil ,,


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## pilots (8 December 2011)

Tell me why NO Australia investor wants any of this stock?????? what is it they don't like about this company. This will NEVER fly until we see the BFS and the DFS, WHY won't they give us them???.


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## turboprop (8 December 2011)

pilots i think the queston should be !!!!why is it that cdu  *CAN RAISE MONIES across the board even in bad times and at good rates without a dfs or bfs  the chinese did the due dilligence . m&g were at the mine yet again and now buy more ..  another question might be what will wm use the money for ? you see he is 1 of the most canny  ceos  i have ever come across ,,  cdu gazzumped bhp out of the port   gotta love cdu .. .*


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## turboprop (8 December 2011)

pilots also take into the equation of a 4:1 strip ratio , and all the other discoveries unwinding . why spend $10m or $15m when there is no need


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## pilots (8 December 2011)

You are so right, still no Australian investors, I bet the mums and Dads that bought $6+ just love to see all the new shares coming on line at $4.


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## turboprop (8 December 2011)

pilots you bring great  great content to the thread .the low strip ratio means $$$ and you know it . cdu raised $32m at $4 in this market and with no dfs / bfs ,, m&g geo did visit the mine recently though and he was happy . and so am i . cdu will have less than 200m shares on issue and roughly $200m+ in da bank ,,, rd show early next yr will be for australian brokers/instos ,,, in the mean time the rest of  the world will be possitioning  .. the media still havent twigged , i am an ausssie and find this all very sad actually .but then thats the aussie tall poppy syndrome  .just how short are you


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## pilots (9 December 2011)

Still no Australian investors, STRANGE, still will have to raise more money b4 mining starts.


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## turboprop (9 December 2011)

pilot what monies might that be ,do tell


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## turboprop (9 December 2011)

pilots said:


> Still no Australian investors, STRANGE, still will have to raise more money b4 mining starts.



 pilots sadly asian rd show then australia jan feb in the mean time cdu raises and always has monies in th most dificult of times even without a dfs or bfs go figure


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## Boggo (9 December 2011)

pilots said:


> Still no Australian investors, STRANGE, still will have to raise more money b4 mining starts.




I reckon I am an Australian investor, well short term anyway 
Bought at 3.45 on 24th Nov and sold yesterday at an average of 4.24759 and I am not interested in arguing about what they are doing or not doing because I don't care.
No dfs, bfs or bs, make a profit and move on !


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## pilots (10 December 2011)

turboprop said:


> pilot what monies might that be ,do tell



They are going to need a hell of a lot more  b4 mining can start.


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## turboprop (10 December 2011)

pilots said:


> They are going to need a hell of a lot more  b4 mining can start.




pilots as i have now asked numerous times ! cdu need  monies for doing what specificly .. the process plant is paid for in usa $$$$ and at a could margin , the mine fleet is wholly owned  ,please explain and define your comment


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## pilots (10 December 2011)

The mine fleet, are you joking, do you realise how much more they need, next you do know that this  MASSIVE find has already been worked over b4.


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## turboprop (10 December 2011)

pilots said:


> The mine fleet, are you joking, do you realise how much more they need, next you do know that this  MASSIVE find has already been worked over b4.






pilots said:


> They are going to need a hell of a lot more  b4 mining can start.




pilots as i have now asked numerous times ! cdu need  monies for doing what specificly .. the process plant is paid for in usa $$$$ and at a could margin , the mine fleet is wholly owned  ,please explain and define your comment  as cdu now have $200m or there abouts in the bank and with a lot of things already paid for . as for mined before i know the deposit well 390t cu from 890t mined . and a few other holes . with the native copper so close to surface and so muchof it makes you wonder how they missed it in the past .. now be specific and answer what monies and what for .dont be evasive


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## turboprop (10 December 2011)

pilots please do not be disingenuous with the forum anymore ,please do not try to change the subject or manipulate answers
cdu raises large sums in bad times with ease ,,, how can this be so !!!!!!!!!!!!  easy they have the goods


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## pilots (10 December 2011)

IF they have all the money they need, WHATS the road show for, LOL.LOL.


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## turboprop (10 December 2011)

pilots said:


> IF they have all the money they need, WHATS the road show for, LOL.LOL.



pilots yet again you answer with a flippant jibe.. please state why cdu needs more money .and what for . 

cdu have not done a broker presentation or road show for a long long time ,the time in now however australian road how  will be after the asian road show , however they have raised  massive amounts of money both befor and after the isue of miing lease e , and look like going to mining with minimal shares on issue , not many miners get this far, an it also  looks like it is takeover proof atm  with 3 large players and many more long term holders on the registry 

when you do your calculations please take into acount that the plant is paid for , the mining fleet is paid for , but to name a few things , i await your reply with baited breath in the hope that there might actualy be content provided


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## pilots (10 December 2011)

Sure they have SOME money, but won't go mining with  that little bit of money YET. So tell my why ANYONE has a road show, just why do companys have road shows for???? Tell me this how long b4 they will they will start mining.


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## turboprop (10 December 2011)

pilots said:


> Sure they have SOME money, but won't go mining with  that little bit of money YET. So tell my why ANYONE has a road show, just why do companys have road shows for???? Tell me this how long b4 they will they will start mining.




why do cdu need more money pilots ??????? they have over $200m  you highlight SOME , hahahaha ,,, please be specific and not evasive ,,,, all monies were also raised without a dfs or bfs how can that be ?????????


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## pilots (11 December 2011)

So tell me then WHY THE ROAD SHOW.


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## turboprop (11 December 2011)

pilots said:


> So tell me then WHY THE ROAD SHOW.




as i have already repled to this question i will not worry aout doing so again however why would cdu specificaly need more monies 
nice pull back friday


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## pilots (11 December 2011)

So they have a mine, they have a ML, they Port, they have rail, they have money in the bank, they have EVERY mineral under the sun, they have a mining fleet, they have a plant for every thing, so why the road show, it is to raise more money. They are going to need a lot more money b4 this gets off the ground.


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## pilots (12 December 2011)

Once again we have one more MASSIVE BONANZA find and the SP is going down STRANGE?????? or is it people have woken up. My bet he will pull a TH/SUSPENSION soon.


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## calais (9 February 2012)

After reading their last quarterly report I can still not work out when this project is going to start.

I think 1st qtr 2013 or maybe sooner. How much is this project going to cost for 3mtpa?

What is their cash cost? 
Cannot get this information from their website.

With a current balance sheet of 166mln and and a marketcap of 670mln this company looks preety good.


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## burglar (28 August 2012)

calais said:


> After reading their last quarterly report I can still not work out when this project is going to start. ...



Report dated 13/08/2012:
Rocklands Development Update 

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20120813/pdf/427zpq0glqv21f.pdf

Looks like it's taking off now!


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## pilots (6 September 2012)

Its going to come back to earth with a bang, they will need about $200mil from the next CR.


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## pilots (13 November 2012)

Whats happened to the rampers who said CDU did not need money to start mining????????????.


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## Sean K (13 November 2012)

Have they come out with a PFS yet?


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## Miner (15 November 2012)

followers and holders of CDU
What is the deal here ?
CDU raised the money at $4.30 after some negotiation. Trading halt was for a week. You would presume that the people who has that much money must have been 'convinced' with a good story considering CDU was hovering at a much higher price. Then the stock slumped to $3.76 Woh ?? 
Now it has gone to another halt related to Capital Raising again.
My speculation is : There could have been a caveat in earlier CDU and the market slump might have deactivated the earlier CR. There could have been some insiders or better informed about the wording of the caveat who sold out.
We have to wait until Friday however to know the official version.
Until now all news of discovery was too good to be true. It reminds me the gold miner (forgot the name) whose geologist aparently committed suicide from plane after being absconding for few days . The discover was all 'salt'.
I hate to suggest that CDU is repeating that. But I get to ask - why such a slump if every thing was on board crystal clear as mud ??

Disclaimer : Yes, Do Hold CDU bought at a lower price  and added some at $3.8 slumped price as well


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## pilots (15 November 2012)

Bad news when theyy can't get any one to buy the CR, what the rampers don't under stand is that CDU need loads more money B4 they can start mining, if this was any good at all you would see some Aussie holders in this stock.


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## Miner (15 November 2012)

Miner said:


> followers and holders of CDU
> What is the deal here ?
> CDU raised the money at $4.30 after some negotiation. Trading halt was for a week. You would presume that the people who has that much money must have been 'convinced' with a good story considering CDU was hovering at a much higher price. Then the stock slumped to $3.76 Woh ??
> Now it has gone to another halt related to Capital Raising again.
> ...




Don't want to brag here to see my speculation was right and the CR has been withdrawn. It was a Lose Lose story for me personally as the market got CDU's bluff and reacted with another reduction after the scrip has opened.


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## pilots (18 March 2013)

It had to happen, CR again, what happened to all the rampers who said we have all the money CDU need to start mining??????.


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## skc (28 June 2013)

This has to be one of the funniest announcements I've ever read from the ASX.



> The relentless selling and short selling of shares by a group of hedge funds and our largest shareholders is allowable without interference from the regulators.




You want regulators to interfere selling by shareholders?!



> The company has made a formal application to ASIC to have CuDeco exempted from the short selling.




What makes you so special?



> The company makes no apologies for the savings to the project and if it takes a little longer, then it takes a little longer for the benefit of all shareholders. It is probably a silver lining for us at present as the copper price is currently low and we would not want to be producing metal at these prices.




So delaying the project is a good thing? And is CDU's operation not profitable at current prices?



> The positive side of the selling and deliberate pushing of our stock down is the
> opportunity for shareholders to take advantage of the opportunity.




A great way to finish a ramp. 

I don't know how CDU holders can read this and not feel embarassed.


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## skyQuake (28 June 2013)

skc said:


> This has to be one of the funniest announcements I've ever read from the ASX.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hahahahha, what a way to end the year.

Telling your long suffering holders to average in some more. Hope he's licensed to give financial advice!


----------



## McLovin (28 June 2013)

That letter was written while he was red hot angry. There's spelling mistakes and grammar errors everywhere. Having said that it's a truly bizarre rant.



> it is probably a silver lining for us at present as the copper price is currently low and we would not want to be producing metal at these prices




This is my favourite. How to spin a delay 101.


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## pilots (28 June 2013)

What a joke, T4P will be working over time now looking for photos to get the SP up again, sure looks like a CR coming very soon, what's happened to the buy back?, what's happened to the rampers?this is going down.


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## tinhat (9 September 2013)

CDU and SFR have both come up on my radar. Having a look at both because I don't know anything about either of them.

Having just started reading up on them last night there seems to be potential here but the histrionics and brash style of the propaganda coming from management are a bit disconcerting. Check out the video on the home page of their website and the announcement today as examples.

Interested to hear more from those who have been watching for longer. What faith do you have in management to get this thing off the ground? How much more $$$ need to be sunk into the venture? When are they expected to start shipping product?

Any heads up to help me research into this one some more?


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## skc (9 September 2013)

tinhat said:


> CDU and SFR have both come up on my radar. Having a look at both because I don't know anything about either of them.
> 
> Having just started reading up on them last night there seems to be potential here but the histrionics and brash style of the propaganda coming from management are a bit disconcerting. Check out the video on the home page of their website and the announcement today as examples.
> 
> ...




SFR is already producing.

CDU I don't know about it operationally but the recent share price movement has a lot more to do with flow rather than fundamentals.


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## tinhat (11 September 2013)

I jumped onto CDU yesterday. I had a bid in during the closing auction the day before but missed out - my limit was 0.5 cents too low and I had to pay 5c more yesterday.

I stayed up until 2am reading everything I could about this company. There is a lot of misinformation floating around and I can understand that there are a lot of people whose judgement may be clouded by the fact that the share price went from $4 to $1.40 recently as the stock got shorted and a insto with a large share holding sold out.

The CEO/Chair McCrae is an interesting chap with an interesting history of delivering on mine development. I'm impressed with how he has managed to fund the development of the plant (share placement to Sinosteel for them to deliver a turn-key processing plant with power generator) and how he has taken on certain civil works himself because the quotes were too high (concrete pad for crusher, etc).

The only thing that worries me is the extent of ownership by foreign customers. Once large shareholder is looking to up their stake by 5%. The company is potentially priced for take-over which would be a bit of a tragedy if foreign interests were able to snatch up a fledgling miner with good potential for a bargain - but we have seen that before! Otherwise, we have seen companies like MGX which is controlled by its foreign buyers hoard cash and ignore the interests of the retail investor.

Another risk seems to be crushing and processing the natural copper. From the little reading I did last night that can be harder than it would seem - separating out the nuggets from the waste. It will be interesting to see how successful their plant is at processing the natural copper.

At this price and looking the chart and with my outlook on copper prices (upside potential) I think the risk is right to jump on for a ride. If it wasn't so expensive to get out to Cloncurry I wouldn't mind going out and looking at the mine.


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## skc (11 September 2013)

tinhat said:


> I jumped onto CDU yesterday. I had a bid in during the closing auction the day before but missed out - my limit was 0.5 cents too low and I had to pay 5c more yesterday.




It looks like a good trading buy to me. It's massively underperformed in the last 3 months in the copper sector so a bit of disconnect between it and the copper price on a relative basis. They also just announced that the major shareholder applied to FIRB to increase holding to 19.9% (doesn't mean they will). So there's perhaps a little bit of short term bid in the name. 

The chart is right on resistance at current level.. so a break of $1.90 will trigger plenty of stops for the shorts and really not much resistance until $3. 

Note I have no opinion regarding a longer term hold.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (12 September 2013)

I find big gaps like this hard to trade.  You holding skc?


----------



## skc (12 September 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> I find big gaps like this hard to trade.  You holding skc?




Yes... either you need a profit target or you got to be prepared to give back lots of open profits.

I had a 20 tick trailling stop so got taken out at 213...

Not a terrible trade but not awesome either.


----------



## skyQuake (12 September 2013)

skc said:


> Yes... either you need a profit target or you got to be prepared to give back lots of open profits.
> 
> I had a 20 tick trailling stop so got taken out at 213...
> 
> Not a terrible trade but not awesome either.




Oh u poor thing!

But spare a thought for the rest of us who tried to wait for a gap fill to buy...


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## Gringotts Bank (12 September 2013)

skc said:


> Yes... either you need a profit target or you got to be prepared to give back lots of open profits.
> 
> I had a 20 tick trailling stop so got taken out at 213...
> 
> Not a terrible trade but not awesome either.




I have a take profit level, but if it pushes hard through that early on, like today, I like to hold and see how far it can go.  But I got stopped as it fell back through it.  I need to study breakaway gaps.


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## skc (12 September 2013)

skyQuake said:


> Oh u poor thing!
> 
> But spare a thought for the rest of us who tried to wait for a gap fill to buy...




It came down to 207 so you were close... Don't be a dick for a tick :

I've been staring at it waiting for a re-entry but it's very hard to get back in once you are out.



Gringotts Bank said:


> I have a take profit level, but if it pushes hard through that early on, like today, I like to hold and see how far it can go.  But I got stopped as it fell back through it.  I need to study breakaway gaps.




I think it's more to do with reading the chart/dom and understanding how CDU trades (which is basically wild and uncontrolled). It was easy to trade in the sense of being able to make profit, but hard to trade if you want to maximise the outcome and make it a massive R/R trade.


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## skyQuake (12 September 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> I have a take profit level, but if it pushes hard through that early on, like today, I like to hold and see how far it can go.  But I got stopped as it fell back through it.  I need to study breakaway gaps.




Personally, I thought it was gonna be an exhaustion gap the way it initially faded.



skc said:


> It came down to 207 so you were close... Don't be a dick for a tick :




I wasn't! Had my bid at 206!


Had been eying it since the selldown. Several false starts but this could be it


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## skc (12 September 2013)

skyQuake said:


> Personally, I thought it was gonna be an exhaustion gap the way it initially faded.
> 
> I wasn't! Had my bid at 206!
> 
> Had been eying it since the selldown. Several false starts but this could be it




Traded this on 12 Aug when it moved 30% in a day. I sold at 157 and made like 6c out of it... and it ran all the way to $1.9 in the afternoon. So this time I had no profit target and gave it a wide stop. Did a bit better so the learning helped.

It's a wild beast alright. Wouldn't surprise me to see another run this arvo...

Edit: SkyQ, can you please remove your order to sell 350000 at 220? You are scaring amateur punters like me.


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## skyQuake (12 September 2013)

skc said:


> Traded this on 12 Aug when it moved 30% in a day. I sold at 157 and made like 6c out of it... and it ran all the way to $1.9 in the afternoon. So this time I had no profit target and gave it a wide stop. Did a bit better so the learning helped.
> 
> It's a wild beast alright. Wouldn't surprise me to see another run this arvo...
> 
> Edit: SkyQ, can you please remove your order to sell 350000 at 220? You are scaring amateur punters like me.




Whoops! Forgot to iceberg it. No wonder nobody was biting


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## pilots (13 September 2013)

What a joke this lot has turned in to, look at the costing, no one has a clue as to how they are going to pay for the plant, or just what it will cost.


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## Holls (16 November 2013)

Fellow traders.......what are your opinions on the CDU offer to purchase more shares at $2.50 and take up the options on offer?  The fundamentals look sound yet I am questioning that $2.50 is too high when the current trading around $2.  Plus the outcome of the finalisation of the credit facility has not been announced.  Any feedback appreciated.


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## pilots (18 November 2013)

Holls said:


> Fellow traders.......what are your opinions on the CDU offer to purchase more shares at $2.50 and take up the options on offer?  The fundamentals look sound yet I am questioning that $2.50 is too high when the current trading around $2.  Plus the outcome of the finalisation of the credit facility has not been announced.  Any feedback appreciated.




The ramp team has been telling us that this has been a good buy all the way down from $10, they will also tell you they have all the money they need to mine, what a joke this has turned in to, I do feel sorry for the long term holders who got sucked I by the ramp team.


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## tinhat (18 November 2013)

Well, I'm almost back to break-even which is where my stop loss is set. It's a pity I didn't move my stop loss because I was up over 25% four weeks ago and the chart does show a definite turn around. I think it comes down to confidence in the management which seems a bit eccentric - the way they have put together the $100m debt deal (still not finalised) and then immediately announce a capital raising and issuing of redeemable rights with option attached. Plus copper price has broken out to the downside the last few days. Will the share price retest the 1.76 low of October?


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## skc (18 November 2013)

Holls said:


> Fellow traders.......what are your opinions on the CDU offer to purchase more shares at $2.50 and take up the options on offer?  The fundamentals look sound yet I am questioning that $2.50 is too high when the current trading around $2.  Plus the outcome of the finalisation of the credit facility has not been announced.  Any feedback appreciated.




1 for 6 issue at $2.50 with each right exercised receiving a 2-year option with exercise price of $2.50. Current share price $1.90.

So the rights is well underwater, but the option will have some value given it's 2 year life. The prospectus reckon the new option is each worth 61c (assuming their calculation is correct) when the head stock was $1.985. So at $1.90 current price (before ex-rights) the option is probably worth something like 55c... Someone with better knowledge of options pricing can probably work out a more accurate value. 

So in short, there is probably little difference whether you buy on market @ $1.90 vs participate in the rights offer.


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## tinhat (20 November 2013)

I'm not familiar with trading rights, but the CDU rights have started trading under ASX code CDUR. The first sales that went through this morning were for $0.10 I would have happily sold at this price except that the share registry has not allocated me my rights. I contacted them and they said they will get back to me after speaking with the account manager.

Is this normal for trading in redeemable rights to commence before they have been allocated to the shareholders by the registry?


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## skc (20 November 2013)

tinhat said:


> I'm not familiar with trading rights, but the CDU rights have started trading under ASX code CDUR. The first sales that went through this morning were for $0.10 I would have happily sold at this price except that the share registry has not allocated me my rights. I contacted them and they said they will get back to me after speaking with the account manager.
> 
> Is this normal for trading in redeemable rights to commence before they have been allocated to the shareholders by the registry?




Some brokers are better than others in terms of processing allocations. Often time is of the essence... and a slow broker can cost you a few pennies.


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## tinhat (20 November 2013)

skc said:


> Some brokers are better than others in terms of processing allocations. Often time is of the essence... and a slow broker can cost you a few pennies.




Righto - thanks. I've heard that someone else has their allocation showing in comsec but I don't. Will contact them again if they don't show up tomorrow. I expect the rights are worthless but would have been happy to sell for 10c take a few hundred bucks.

If the rights issue is only available to Australian investors, does that mean that the rights are worthless to a foreign investor - there would be no point in them buying?

This is the first time I've held a stock with a redeemable rights issue so I'm curious more than anything else.


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## skc (20 November 2013)

tinhat said:


> Righto - thanks. I've heard that someone else has their allocation showing in comsec but I don't. Will contact them again if they don't show up tomorrow. I expect the rights are worthless but would have been happy to sell for 10c take a few hundred bucks.
> 
> If the rights issue is only available to Australian investors, does that mean that the rights are worthless to a foreign investor - there would be no point in them buying?
> 
> This is the first time I've held a stock with a *redeemable *rights issue so I'm curious more than anything else.




Renounceable.

You are quite correct in saying that CDUR should probably be worthless. The volume is only 5000 so could easily have been someone mucking around.

As to foreign investors - you'd have to read up on the prospectus on what it means to them.


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## Holls (20 November 2013)

I rang the CDU office 2 days ago to clarify some points. I asked when would the financing arrangement with the Chinese lender be finalised.  She said soon.   I asked if the Company had a plan B or C if the finance agreement with the Chinese lenders did not come to fruition.  Her response was 'of course' yet indicated that the deal was basically in the bag.  
Interesting.......


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## pilots (3 December 2013)

Holls said:


> I rang the CDU office 2 days ago to clarify some points. I asked when would the financing arrangement with the Chinese lender be finalised.  She said soon.   I asked if the Company had a plan B or C if the finance agreement with the Chinese lenders did not come to fruition.  Her response was 'of course' yet indicated that the deal was basically in the bag.
> Interesting.......




Holls, can you name just one time table they have kept.


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## boob (26 July 2014)

Dso will be sold eventually


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## pilots (3 October 2014)

This is now a real DOG STOCK.


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## WRONG'UN (3 October 2014)

That chart pattern is called a "waterfall". Very apt.


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## skc (3 October 2014)

WRONG'UN said:


> That chart pattern is called a "waterfall". Very apt.




I hope Wayne McCrae release a letter along the lines of the one he sent back in Jun 2013. It remains one of the more bizzar things I have seen on the ASX.

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20130628/pdf/42gr1csm9hn3qm.pdf


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## VSntchr (3 October 2014)

skc said:


> I hope Wayne McCrae release a letter along the lines of the one he sent back in Jun 2013. It remains one of the more bizzar things I have seen on the ASX.
> 
> http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20130628/pdf/42gr1csm9hn3qm.pdf




Gosh, he'd fit right in on the other msg board!


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## McLovin (3 October 2014)

skc said:


> I hope Wayne McCrae release a letter along the lines of the one he sent back in Jun 2013. It remains one of the more bizzar things I have seen on the ASX.
> 
> http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20130628/pdf/42gr1csm9hn3qm.pdf




I remember that! Hopefully he's installed his spell check this time around.


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## DJG (4 October 2014)

McLovin said:


> I remember that! Hopefully he's installed his spell check this time around.




Sounds like bloody Allied Capital's press release(s), only copper not loans.


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## pilots (23 October 2014)

Whats the SP going to be after the next CR , you think that's bad news, wait until they give us the grades from the mine.


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## pilots (26 January 2016)

pilots said:


> Whats the SP going to be after the next CR , you think that's bad news, wait until they give us the grades from the mine.




Well Well, just had NEWS from the mine site its all over, what's happened to the ramp team.???????????????


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## tinhat (27 January 2016)

pilots said:


> Well Well, just had NEWS from the mine site its all over, what's happened to the ramp team.???????????????




Do you have any source for info? What an education that stock was. I managed to sell for a modest loss. I had two opportunities to sell at a small profit and ignored them both. It just goes to show that cowboys can play with lots of other people's money through the ASX. I wonder whether the plant has any economic value at all? Supposedly there is a huge pile of copper ore on the ROM pad. I wonder what value it has. It will be interesting to watch what happens with the assets.


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## pilots (28 January 2016)

Tinhat, you was dam lucky that you could unload some of this dog, the word in town is that nothing is moving at the mine,###It will be interesting to watch what happens with the assets.#### LOL,LOL, WHAT assets, all the rolling stock is second hand JUNK, the plant is not able to work the way its set up, and WHO knows what copper they have, you are so lucky to have got rid of some.


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## pilots (13 February 2016)

Tinhat, what do you make of the ASX news yesterday???, looks like its well and truly over now for CDU.


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## tinhat (14 February 2016)

pilots said:


> Tinhat, what do you make of the ASX news yesterday???, looks like its well and truly over now for CDU.




I haven't read the prospectus released the other day. The ASX have problems with it which is why they issued to stop order on the capital raising. I'm amazed at how drawn out this has become. Since the beginning of 2015, this stock has spent most of the time suspended from trading. Whatever happens to this company as a legal entity (whether it is wound up or bought-out by the majority shareholders, etc) it is foreign controlled now. It will be interesting to see whether the small investors get anything back.

In my opinion there appear to have been governance and disclosure issues with this company for years now. Announcement upon announcement appear to have made projections and statements of fact that history has shown to be very inaccurate. I'm amazed that a law firm hasn't taken up a class action on behalf of shareholders.

A true train wreck. In fact, given the enormous boom the copper sector went through globally, for sharemarket investors the Aussie copper sector was a disaster which foreign interests seemed able to pick-off with ease, with the exception of Sandfire Resources.

I'm having a dabble in Tiger Resources and Finders - underwater with both. Let's hope the bottom is in.


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## pilots (16 February 2016)

Tinhat,  Announcement upon announcement appear to have made projections and statements of fact that history has shown to be very inaccurate, Yes!!!! who knew that this was NOT GOING TO BE PROFITABLE way back when copper was much higher?????, some one is going to be in the poo poo big time.


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## pilots (30 September 2016)

Its all over at long last for this DOG, hard to believe that the ramp team could make it last this long.


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