# Australian Flag Australia Day



## Garpal Gumnut (22 January 2010)

There are some in the chattering media and whinging special-interest classes campaigning to discourage Australians from flying the flag or wear clothing containing the flag on Australia Day.

I would encourage all ASFers to be proud of our flag and celebrate the date of the arrival of the First Fleet at Port Jackson.

Some bad but much much good has come from that first settlement in this great land. We should celebrate the origins of our nation on that date.

gg


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## Bigukraine (22 January 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> There are some in the chattering media and whinging special-interest classes campaigning to discourage Australians from flying the flag or wear clothing containing the flag on Australia Day.
> 
> I would encourage all ASFers to be proud of our flag and celebrate the date of the arrival of the First Fleet at Port Jackson.
> 
> ...




good post gg  " remember where you come from and be gratefull that your here" some people don't realise they are really in the lucky country happy aus day to all and hope the socceroos go hard in africa in the world cup !:bier::aus:


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## Macquack (22 January 2010)

When are we going to get OUR OWN FLAG.

I am sick of the patchwork flag that the rest of the world confuses with New Zealand.


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## Garpal Gumnut (22 January 2010)

A reasonable point.

The Southern Cross needs to stay imho and perhaps The Eureka Flag, may be suitable. 

This will take us off topic though.

The Australian Flag of the time needs to be displayed prominently by all on Australia Day.

gg


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## Sidamo (22 January 2010)

Why does being proud of where you come from equate to a necessity to wave the flag a lot?

I'm all for being proud to be an Aussie, even though I'm not, but it seems like we're starting down the US road where if you're not flying the flag you're assumed to be unpatriotic. I think we need to head that off at the pass. I prefer small 'p' patriotism, but maybe that's just me?

As for the Southern Cross, in recent years it seems to have been hijacked by bogans and racists, unfortunately.


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## Garpal Gumnut (22 January 2010)

You have a point there Sidamo, 

Many bogans and criminals wrap themselves in the Australian flag, but the media are now , as usual blaming the innocent majority, for the sins of a few. 

Whether people decide not to is no business of mine, and I do not think it should be compulsory, but to advise folk not to fly the flag seems unpatriotic to me. 

gg


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## roland (22 January 2010)

I actually don't own an Aussie flag, they tend to wear out or get stolen from the antenna of the car.

I wonder why it is important anyway, seems kinda odd to have to wave an Aussie flag in Australia to say that you are Australian... aren't most of us Aussies already?

Is it to say that I am more Aussie than you?

Most of the Aussie flags you buy are made in China anyway - probably better off waving around an Akubra hat instead ... more Aussie than the Aussie flag


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## UBIQUITOUS (23 January 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Some bad but much much good has come from that first settlement in this great land. We should celebrate the origins of our nation on that date.
> 
> gg




First settlement - No. Australia already had a population of 300k before that 'first settlement', no matter what people think of them.

Great Land - Hell yeah!!

Celebrate the origins - Sure but it would involve celebrating something a lot older than when the first Brit arrived here, or younger by celebrating when Australia actually became a nation in its own right ie 09 Oct, when Australia adopted the Statute of Westminster.

The Yanks celebrate Independence day. Here we celebrate their equivalent of Columbus 'discovering' America. Its just not right.  Its simply unaustralian.


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## Garpal Gumnut (23 January 2010)

Ubi , this is where the self interest groups start diverging from the majority of Australians.

According to your logic you could go all the way back to Adam and Eve and say that nothing should be celebrated prior to the first root.

Take hold of yourself and hide in a cupboard on Australia Day, you exhibit the same shame that our progenitors did according to the Judaeo-Christian tradition.

I'm quite happy to let someone of a different tradition, A Green, A Muslim or a Christian or a Jew celebrate their important days and wave their pictures of Muhammed, Jesus, Moses or Al Gore or whatever about.

They and you should allow us to wave the Australian Flag, on an imortant national holiday.

gg


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## Aussiejeff (23 January 2010)

roland said:


> I actually don't own an Aussie flag, they tend to wear out or get stolen from the antenna of the car.
> 
> I wonder why it is important anyway, seems kinda odd to have to wave an Aussie flag in Australia to say that you are Australian... aren't most of us Aussies already?
> 
> ...




Oh.

I thought they were now made from Tibetan hares?

Oi!! 

Carn the green 'n gold!!


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## Tink (23 January 2010)

'Have a barbie' (BBQ) is all I have been hearing on the radio/TV about Australia Day, which we do anyway. 

I dont have a problem with people waving flags, its their special day so let them, whatever the occasion

Off topic- I agree with the flag change.

NB - I should have said our special day but I was talking in general


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## UBIQUITOUS (23 January 2010)

GG,  this is a most interesting discussion and I really am intrigued by your views.
As a Pom who moved here not so long ago (and took up Australian citizenship), I am flattered (and slightly embarrassed for you) that you celebrate the date that one of our sailors arrived here as the most important date in Australia's history. The sad thing is that it is not a joke that this day is seen as so significant.

So why is it insisted that this day is celebrated with fervour? 

1. To celebrate independence from the Brits? 

It can't be as the Union Jack is still part of the flag. On this point I do not believe the UJ should be a part of the flag. It would be akin to the Star Spangled Banner being red and yellow in representation of Spain's colours, or the Canadian flag being red white and blue in honour of the French and British. No, those countries claimed true independence. Meanwhile downunder....

2. To celebrate mateship and other Australian values?

No. This is BS. It certainly doesn't have me fooled. It is simply a way to delude/force the ever increasing non anglo saxon immigrants into conforming to the Monarchist view: "If you don't fly this flag, you are unaustralian and should go home" What bull. The unfortunate thing is that many are fooled by this and believe Jan26 to be a significant day. 

3. For those insecure citizens of Anglo Saxon heritage to keep the high ground and protect their self interests.

Yes. 


Personally I celebrate being Australian everyday by being a good citizen. I will not be conditioned by some claiming to be on the moral high ground. Australia is a nation that has always been formed on immigration and as long as we let good people in, I don't care where they come from. 

Quite simply, the Australian flag and its currency is dated, and so is the date on which we celebrate Australia day. I propose that Jan1 to be Australia Day where the Southern Cross is flown, and is bought with currency showing the heads of the first prime ministers post Oct9 1942.

Time to move on Australia and get your own identity. Only then will the whole country will sing from the same hymn sheet and all citizens be made to feel welcome and as equals.


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## IFocus (23 January 2010)

Waving, wearing, draping yourself in the flag etc is certainly being embraced by the younger generation.

Of course every bogan here in the west  has more flags hanging of the Ute than UN head quarters but even normal people (left wing greenies) are flying them too (organic made in China flags of course). 

Being older and normal I prefer the understated stance.

I like the flag after all people died fighting under it. 

But having said that both my grand fathers served in the Western Australian 11th Battalion in France WW1.

Uncles WW2, Brother in-law Vietnam,  All of them served in the front line I dont think any of them took the flag to seriously.

Cannot put my finger on it but for some reason I feel a little awkward with all the flag waving thing.


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## Garpal Gumnut (23 January 2010)

Ubi, thanks for your kind words and well thought out arguments.

The problem that most Australians have is that change is not inherent in their nature, or at least rapid change. They like things to evolve. 

That is why the Republican Movement fell on their collective arses, Australians are generally happier with the status quo rather than something that is imposed by pointy headed academics, toffee nosed silvertails or ground knuckle touching elements in the NSW Labor Party.

So the argument is, if it ain't broke , don't fix it. This in fact is my signature in latin at the bottom of this post. 

Each new wave of poor unfortunate boat or 747 immigrant people like you, who seek a better life in this great land, try to change us. This is good for us. 

But don't expect to change us quickly.

I now eat spaghetti, tabouli and thai curry, ( not together by the way ) , but I still prefer pies and peas, and until recently vegemite.

So let us all keep some of our important days.

Fly the flag on Australia Day, and when the flag is changed to the best flag of all, the Eureka Flag, let us fly that then.

gg


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## UBIQUITOUS (23 January 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Ubi, thanks for your kind words and well thought out arguments.
> 
> The problem that most Australians have is that change is not inherent in their nature, or at least rapid change. They like things to evolve.
> 
> ...




Thanks GG. I believe we are mostly in agreement. In regards to the Republic movement, in '99 it was a close call. I truly believe that if a referendum were to be held today, it would be carried. 

So here's to a referendum in the near future so that the final foundations can be set for Australia to move from being merely a great place to live, to being a supreme country on a global stage. Yes it will take decades, but it can be done. Along the way we can learn from the mistakes of the US in relation to many issues, especially racial harmony. First though, we have to release the anchors.


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## Garpal Gumnut (23 January 2010)

UBIQUITOUS said:


> Thanks GG. I believe we are mostly in agreement. In regards to the Republic movement, in '99 it was a close call. I truly believe that if a referendum were to be held today, it would be carried.
> 
> So here's to a referendum in the near future so that the final foundations can be set for Australia to move from being merely a great place to live, to being a supreme country on a global stage. Yes it will take decades, but it can be done. Along the way we can learn from the mistakes of the US in relation to many issues, especially racial harmony. First though, we have to release the anchors.




I agree totally, Ubi.

Letting go can be difficult, and so often the new is not necessarily better.

I lived in England for a couple years a long time ago and I wouldn't even go there for a visit now. Socially its stuffed. And in large part due to forced social ideas from the universities and guvment on the people.

gg


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## Krusty the Klown (23 January 2010)

Macquack said:


> When are we going to get OUR OWN FLAG.
> 
> I am sick of the patchwork flag that the rest of the world confuses with New Zealand.




I agree 1,000% Macquack.

Seriously, I ENDEAVOURed to read further posts past this but fortunately/unfortunately I have started celebrating Australia/Invasion Day early and will come back and read the further posts and try to contribute if I can, when I am better composed.

Pride in my homeland is something I hold dear.


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## Garpal Gumnut (23 January 2010)

Krusty the Klown said:


> I agree 1,000% Macquack.
> 
> Seriously, I ENDEAVOURed to read further posts past this but fortunately/unfortunately I have started celebrating Australia/Invasion Day early and will come back and read the further posts and try to contribute if I can, when I am better composed.
> 
> Pride in my homeland is something I hold dear.




I generally agree with you K, and respect your pride in Australia,

But I don't agree with calling it invasion day.

I'm sure I am in the majority.

It is offensive to the memories of the settlers and convicts who toiled to make a new life for themselves in a threatening largely unoccupied continent, often in barbarous conditions. 

That's not to say it wasn't a dreadful event for the indigenous people of that time, but that was over 200 years ago. 

We need to move on from all this politically correct rubbish and celebrate Australia Day.

We all need to move on for the sake of future generations, be they of indigenous, settler, convict, $10, Balt, 747 or boat people stock.

We are all Australians.

gg


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## Logique (24 January 2010)

I'm neither ignoring nor being disrespectful to Aboriginal Australians when I say that I think the nearest thing we have to a National Day is Anzac Day. I've never thought 26 January had any real relevance to modern Australia, and it certainly doesn't to Aboriginal Australia. 

The southern cross flag is an icon, uniquely Australian, and should become our national flag. However a respectful delay is in order - many fought and died under various versions of the union jack composite flag.

If you include numerous recognitions on a flag, it will turn into the South African flag. Southern Cross for me, simple and resonant. Anzac Day for our National Day.


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## Tink (24 January 2010)

I agree with the change of the flag and the change of the day.

Just as the US has Independance Day and Canada has Canada Day. Thats what we should do.

The day the flag gets changed is the day that should be picked


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## Garpal Gumnut (24 January 2010)

Anzac Day is certainly a more important day for me, and more embedded in the Australian psyche than Australia Day. 

gg


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## Wysiwyg (24 January 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Anzac Day is certainly a more important day for me, and more embedded in the Australian psyche than Australia Day.
> 
> gg




Hear hear. Nothing significant or special about a fleet of boats arriving at a land mass all those years ago. Although to me these days, public holidays have no sentimental, patriotic or celebratory value.

I feel patriotic remembering the sacrifices of our forefathers during the World Wars and patriotic when Lleyton or the Kangaroos or the athletes or the swimmers or any sportsman or sportswoman that steps up on the world stage or an inventor or an (honest) entrepreneur.

Maybe because these things are more honest and real.


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## Garpal Gumnut (24 January 2010)

Wysiwyg said:


> Hear hear. Nothing significant or special about a fleet of boats arriving at a land mass all those years ago. Although to me these days, public holidays have no sentimental, patriotic or celebratory value.
> 
> I feel patriotic remembering the sacrifices of our forefathers during the World Wars and patriotic when Lleyton or the Kangaroos or the athletes or the swimmers or any sportsman or sportswoman that steps up on the world stage or an inventor or an (honest) entrepreneur.
> 
> Maybe because these things are more honest and real.




Well said wizz, except for the tennis comment.

I believe professional tennis players are playing with small balls, and that's just the women, don't get me started on the men.

Lets keep showbizsportsciencesavinglivesangelsofmercyfrontpagedrama and other worthwhile achievements out of Anzac Day.

That's what Australia Day is for.

gg


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## nulla nulla (24 January 2010)

Australia, as the multicultural society it is today, started when Cook strolled up the beach and claimed the land. Technically Cook was the first "boat person" to land on these shores and make demands on the resident population. Since then there have been plenty of other days that merit rememberance, Anzac day, Rememberance Day, and Federation day (when we stopped being independant states and formed a national federation). In my opinion, when Gough shook off the title "Commonwealth of Australia" for "Australia" on our currency is a day that also should be remembered. As should be the date we form a Republic. 

In respect of the flag, it is our flag and we should fly it proudly whenever we want, not just on Australia Day.


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## prozac (24 January 2010)

We should all be proud to be part of this wonderful nation or not be here. I value the new Aussie who in accented English tries to embrace our life-style and culture and says he is an "aussie".

And it doesn't matter we are not a republic and perhaps better we are not! I can't imagine what President Rudd could do to us if given the power. 

You can all stop your bleating about the flag. The Union Jack gives us perspective as to our past whilst the wonderful Southern Cross shows we are a forward looking nation. I cannot imagine a flag that embraces the spirit of any country so well as ours.

Before any of you jump down my throat, I have a pretty good wog name and am first generation. Get rid of the flag, get rid of the Commonwealth, let minority groups get rid of our unique culture, we may as well be blanc mange.


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## Mr J (24 January 2010)

Wysiwyg said:


> I feel patriotic...... when *Lleyton* ....




Cheering Lleyton is taking patriotism too far :.


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## Sean K (24 January 2010)

I am very worried we will lose our Australian bent.



Overseas, people love 'us'. 

Not Greeks, or Italians, or Labanese, or Indians.

Australians!! 

Immigrants join us or be 'them'. 

Even you Kiwis!!! 

Yes, I'm a racisit. 

If you want to be 'Australian', be Australian. 

Now, define that...


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## jbocker (24 January 2010)

Like your comments GG!
I am happy to celebrate by just being happy to live here, bbq, beer with friends and family. I dont begrudge anyone flying the flag, so long as they are respectful in doing so. Just simply let it fly for a few days around Australia day (dont care when that day is just so long as we have one).

I do get annoyed at people flying it for extended periods, letting it shred to ribbons. Seen one down the street from inlaws been flying all year and the only reason its still there is the fatlard is too lazy to remove it (its about 1/2 a flag and faded).

Hope you all have Happy Australia day.:aus:


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## IFocus (24 January 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Anzac Day is certainly a more important day for me, and more embedded in the Australian psyche than Australia Day.
> 
> gg





Yes feel the same, but then have a very large respect for our military and its history.


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## Sidamo (24 January 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> The problem that most Australians have is that change is not inherent in their nature, or at least rapid change. They like things to evolve.
> 
> That is why the Republican Movement fell on their collective arses...




I thought they failed because of the way the question was phrased? From memory (and I could very well be wrong) it was something like:

"would you like to be a republic with a president chosen by this particular method with these particular powers?"

rather than

"would you like to be a republic?"

with the question of how a president was elected, and what powers they would have being decided separately?

Also, I see the Opposition want us to participate in "affirmation ceremonies". WTF? Before they got booted out they tied school funding to the requirement for an Australian flag out the front of the school, introduced the anti-Muslim test (immi. test) and now they want this. Are they really that insecure about being Australian?


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## Garpal Gumnut (25 January 2010)

Sidamo said:


> I thought they failed because of the way the question was phrased? From memory (and I could very well be wrong) it was something like:
> 
> "would you like to be a republic with a president chosen by this particular method with these particular powers?"
> 
> ...




No Sid they failed because the Australian public didn't trust the model that was put forward. A model that would have consolidated power in and control by the present political class comrade.

gg


gg


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## Sidamo (25 January 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> No Sid they failed because the Australian public didn't trust the model that was put forward. A model that would have consolidated power in and control by the present political class comrade.




Sorry, isn't that what I said? If the questions was simply "Do you want a republic?" it probably would have passed.


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## Tink (25 January 2010)

Howard is a staunch monarchist, he wasnt going to let that pass


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## Garpal Gumnut (25 January 2010)

Sidamo said:


> Sorry, isn't that what I said? If the questions was simply "Do you want a republic?" it probably would have passed.




That question is a bit like saying " Do you want a r**t " to someone you have just met.

gg


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## UBIQUITOUS (25 January 2010)

It would appear that us Australians certainly are a confused bunch:

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/ray-martin-leads-push-for-new-flag-20100125-msu3.html



> Galaxy poll commissioned by News Limited has found 44 per cent of Australians are in favour of becoming a republic, with 27 per cent against.
> 
> But the same poll shows 27 per cent of people want to remove the Union Jack from the flag, while 45 per cent want to retain the present flag


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## Tink (25 January 2010)

UBIQUITOUS said:


> It would appear that us Australians certainly are a confused bunch:
> 
> http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/ray-martin-leads-push-for-new-flag-20100125-msu3.html




Oh yes, with Australia Day and William coming out, we are suppose to be all confused, so they tell us


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## Pivotonian (25 January 2010)

Sidamo said:


> I thought they failed because of the way the question was phrased? From memory (and I could very well be wrong) it was something like:
> 
> "would you like to be a republic with a president chosen by this particular method with these particular powers?"
> 
> ...




This is exactly and precisely correct.  Howard played it very, very cleverly - he knew that the republicans couldn't agree on the model (yet) so by taking this path he could be seen to give them their "chance" without any realistic prospect of success, and then shelve it for years.  Like him or hate him, we can't deny that John Howard was a very clever politician.


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## Garpal Gumnut (25 January 2010)

Pivotonian said:


> This is exactly and precisely correct.  Howard played it very, very cleverly - he knew that the republicans couldn't agree on the model (yet) so by taking this path he could be seen to give them their "chance" without any realistic prospect of success, and then shelve it for years.  Like him or hate him, we can't deny that John Howard was a very clever politician.




You can't blame Johnny for everything.

Its like blaming Whitlam for all the welfare, broken homes and people called River with a double barreled second name and a drug habit.

Whitlam and Johnny are gone.

gg


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## Pivotonian (25 January 2010)

prozac said:


> You can all stop your bleating about the flag. The Union Jack gives us perspective as to our past whilst the wonderful Southern Cross shows we are a forward looking nation. I cannot imagine a flag that embraces the spirit of any country so well as ours.




This is complete and utter nonsense.

The union jack on our flag connotes nothing less than ownership, of our country by the UK.  Which, constitutionally at least, is still the embarrassing reality.  It is a relic of history that outlived its used by date generations ago.  Perspective my ass.  We can all learn about and understand the role of the UK in our history without having to see it every time we look at the flag.

By the way, I have nothing against the UK itself.  Some of my ancestors came from there, it has been a great country through the ages and it obviously has an integral role in our history.  But I very strongly believe it has no relevance to _modern day_ Australia, and no longer deserves such a prominent place in our constitution or on our flag.

My personal opinion is that the current aboriginal flag would have been a brilliant national flag.  It would be impossible to use it in reality given the cultural and political significance now attached to it, but as a symbol of our country that we can be proud of I think its great.  If only someone would come up with a similarly awesome new design.


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## Pivotonian (25 January 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> You can't blame Johnny for everything.
> 
> Its like blaming Whitlam for all the welfare, broken homes and people called River with a double barreled second name and a drug habit.
> 
> ...




Not blaming him for anything, except almost single-handedly derailing the republican movement in Australia, which he and his monarchist allies in his government clearly did, and did superbly.

And despite being a passionate republican, I don't hate him for it.  I admire him for the way he did it.  It was brilliant stuff.


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## Garpal Gumnut (25 January 2010)

I can hear the sound of one hand clapping.

Depends how you see the Union Jack.

I think it shouldn't be on the flag, but I've served under the Australian flag and was proud to.

gg


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## Happy (25 January 2010)

Political correctness seems to creep in everywhere.

Making Australia Day holiday to be celebrated on the day, looks like first step to push it back and maybe to oblivion.

One of the possibilities would probably be to include in Australian flag, little flag of every country that ever any migrant settled here, that would be real acknowledgment of Multiculturalism.

How silly is that? But politically correct, aj?


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## UBIQUITOUS (25 January 2010)

Happy said:


> Political correctness seems to creep in everywhere.
> 
> Making Australia Day holiday to be celebrated on the day, looks like first step to push it back and maybe to oblivion.
> 
> ...




Not as silly as having the a small flag of the former rulers in the Australian flag. The umbilical cord should have been cut a long time ago. Australia is a big baby now.


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## Tink (25 January 2010)

UBIQUITOUS said:


> ........
> 
> The umbilical cord should have been cut a long time ago.
> 
> ....




Hear Hear


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## wayneL (25 January 2010)

Another suggestion to come out of Canberra


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## Sean K (25 January 2011)

I'll be waving a flag tomorrow.

:aus:

But looking forward to an update.


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## Surly (25 January 2011)

Here is our most Australian reason for the conflict on this day.

We should really celebrate Australia day on 1 January of each year but this is already a public holiday. In order for it to be a separate holiday it needed to be on another day.

Therefore it is 26 January!

cheers
Surly


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## Bill M (25 January 2011)

I don't agree with that one surly, thant means a punter on the tools only gets 2 public holidays instead of 3,,,, not fair. Lets ask the CEO of the Commonwealth Bank to give back 15 million $$$ of his yearly salary then we are talking business..:

As for the flag, I don't care. Whatever we call ours is ours and we fly it. No matter if it's the current one or anything new.


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## Tink (26 January 2011)

Our flag is too much like NZ's and its time we had our own, Canada had the right approach.

When we changed the national anthem from God save the Queen, there was an uproar to change it back 

but in time, I do think it will happen : )


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## IrishDigger (26 January 2011)

Happy said:


> Political correctness seems to creep in everywhere.
> 
> Making Australia Day holiday to be celebrated on the day, looks like first step to push it back and maybe to oblivion.
> 
> ...




Or, we could end up with a Gay Aboriginal Muslim Flag.

Leave our flag alone.

Our flag bears the stars that blaze at night
In our southern sky of blue
And that little old flag in the corner
That's part of our heritage too,
It's for the English, the Scots and the Irish
Who were sent to the end of the earth
The rogues and the schemers and dreamers
Who gave our Australia its birth.
And you who are shouting to change it
You don't seem to understand
It's the flag of our laws and language
Not the flag of a far away land
There are plenty of people who'll tell you
How when Europe was plunged into night
The little old flag in the corner
Was their symbol of freedom and light.
It don't mean we owe our allegiance
To a forgotten imperial dream
We've the stars to show where we're going
And the old flag to show where we've been
It's only an old piece of bunting
It's only an old coloured rag
But there are thousands who died for its honor
And fell in defence of our flag.


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## Calliope (26 January 2011)

Tink said:


> Our flag is too much like NZ's and its time we had our own, Canada had the right approach.
> 
> When we changed the national anthem from God save the Queen, there was an uproar to change it back
> 
> but in time, I do think it will happen : )




And what's wrong with it being similar to New Zealand's flag? One if the problems with putting maple leaves, fern leaves or kangaroos on a flag is that it makes them too complicated. The design of a flag should be simple enough for any school kid to draw.


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## Julia (26 January 2011)

Why is it that every person receiving an award (about which they'd have had advance warning, despite professing total surprise) feels obliged to say how 'humbled' they feel?

Why humbled?


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## Calliope (26 January 2011)

Julia said:


> Why is it that every person receiving an award (about which they'd have had advance warning, despite professing total surprise) feels obliged to say how 'humbled' they feel?
> 
> Why humbled?




They are not humbled. They relish the publicity and the opportunity to nag us for a year about their pet projects.


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## Gringotts Bank (26 January 2011)

I've just designed a gay aboriginal muslim flag.

:millhouse: :afro:


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## Gringotts Bank (26 January 2011)

Why humbled?  Ever received an award?  It makes you feel humble.

Normally the ego is kept busy trying to maintain a separate 'self' with thoughts of appearance, achievement and relationship.  When you get one of these needs recognized or fulfilled, your ego lets go its grip for a few seconds, making you feel humble.  In this way, the more humble the recipient feels, the more attached they are to their fragile ego.  We all do it though, to some degree.


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## Solly (26 January 2011)

I'm in two minds about the flag. It's the only one I've known but I'm sure we need to cement our true identity. I'm just not sure what we need to replace it with to encompass all the heritage and backgrounds of all who can call this diverse land home.

I'm probably at bit worn out from beach cricket , had to many VBs and a bit sunburnt. ..... 
This was my day


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## wayneL (26 January 2011)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Why humbled?  Ever received an award?  It makes you feel humble.
> 
> Normally the ego is kept busy trying to maintain a separate 'self' with thoughts of appearance, achievement and relationship.  When you get one of these needs recognized or fulfilled, your ego lets go its grip for a few seconds, making you feel humble.  In this way, the more humble the recipient feels, the more attached they are to their fragile ego.  We all do it though, to some degree.




I don't know about that.

I think it's  merely a platitude mouthed by most people.

I would only believe that a minority are truly humbled by recognition; and these would only be people who genuinely do not seek it.

tr.v. hum·bled, hum·bling, hum·bles
1. To curtail or destroy the pride of; humiliate.
2. To cause to be meek or modest in spirit.
3. To give a lower condition or station to; abase. See Synonyms at degrade.

IOW those truly embarrassed by the attention


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## noco (26 January 2011)

If the flag ever gets changed, let's make it RED with a BIG GREEN BORDER, a hairy rednosed wombats in one corner, a tree hugger in another corner, a lung fish in the bottom corner. lots of wind power farms and solar power cells in the middle and a filled in coal mine last.
That will keep all the GREENS AND LEFT WING SOCIALIST happy. Bugger the rest.

For Christ sake leave the bloody flag as it is. We fought two major world wars under that flag. Aussies lost their lives fighting for it. 

Wiil a new flag will it make us any happier? Will it make us  richer or poorer? Will it give us all a better way of life? Will it stop the prospects of terrorist attacks? Will it stop droughts, floods and fire. I don't think so!!!!!!!!


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## Julia (26 January 2011)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Why humbled?  Ever received an award?  It makes you feel humble.



I've only received a few awards, nothing like "Australian of the Year", but these small recognitions have made me feel anything but humble.  Rather a sense of pride that my efforts have been recognised, and if anything my ego is enhanced.



> Normally the ego is kept busy trying to maintain a separate 'self' with thoughts of appearance, achievement and relationship.



A psychologically healthy person will have their ego integrated, not separate.
And surely someone with a reasonable level of "OK-ness" isn't constantly preoccupied by appearance, achievement and relationship.
Perhaps it's an age thing, e.g. younger people are more concerned with image.



> When you get one of these needs recognized or fulfilled, your ego lets go its grip for a few seconds, making you feel humble.  In this way, the more humble the recipient feels, the more attached they are to their fragile ego.  We all do it though, to some degree.



Sorry, GB.  That doesn't make any sense to me.



wayneL said:


> I don't know about that.
> 
> I think it's  merely a platitude mouthed by most people.



Yes, I agree and it's why I raised it.  It has become the accepted thing to say, however meaningless.



> I would only believe that a minority are truly humbled by recognition; and these would only be people who genuinely do not seek it.



Yes, agree.  Hence the inappropriateness of the bleating about being humbled.


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## bellenuit (26 January 2011)

IrishDigger said:


> Or, we could end up with a Gay Aboriginal Muslim Flag.
> 
> Leave our flag alone.
> 
> ...




Having come from Ireland 28 years ago and assuming citizenship a few years later, I never feel comfortable about telling "original" Aussies what should be their flag. But just to make a point about the Union Jack in the corner, the cross in the centre that represents Ireland, represents Ireland before they became independent from the UK. When they were an English dominion. So, if you want to represent Ireland in the Australian flag, not saying that one should do so, the Union Jack is definitely not the symbol for it.


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## Tink (27 January 2011)

Just because we change a flag doesnt take away anything from the history, its still Australia. Wasnt the flag red at one stage, its already had a few changes.

I am not a flag waver anyways, dont even possess a flag, but it would be nice to have an individual Australian flag when it gets raised at events where they dont mix it up with others.


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## Logique (27 January 2011)

Tink said:


> Our flag is too much like NZ's and its time we had our own, Canada had the right approach.....



What Tink said. 

Eureka flag - my preference for it may surprise some, but I think the BLF and AWU just borrowed the Eureka flag. They don't and never did own it. 

It's time we re-appropriated it for the nation. The national flag is there staring us in the face, the penny just needs to drop.

As for the anachronism of the little flag in the corner, to denote who we are: with our future prosperity and diplomatic links so tied to China, it begs the rhetorical absurdism, in this case why wouldn't you have the Chinese flag in the corner.


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## wayneL (27 January 2011)

Logique said:


> I'm neither ignoring nor being disrespectful to Aboriginal Australians when I say that I think the nearest thing we have to a National Day is Anzac Day. I've never thought 26 January had any real relevance to modern Australia, and it certainly doesn't to Aboriginal Australia.
> 
> The southern cross flag is an icon, uniquely Australian, and should become our national flag. However a respectful delay is in order - many fought and died under various versions of the union jack composite flag.
> 
> If you include numerous recognitions on a flag, it will turn into the South African flag. Southern Cross for me, simple and resonant. Anzac Day for our National Day.




Here's an idea:


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## noco (27 January 2011)

Give 64 reasos why it should be changed. It's a flag that's been with us for 200 years. Don't fix it if it ain't broke.


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## wayneL (27 January 2011)

Maybe this?


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## Calliope (27 January 2011)

Julia said:


> Yes, I agree and it's why I raised it.  It has become the accepted thing to say, however meaningless.
> 
> 
> Yes, agree.  Hence the inappropriateness of the bleating about being humbled.




It all started with Uriah Heep.






No humbleness about this girl. No nonsense about role models or "showing the spirit of Queensland" either. She did what she wanted to do. And now she's rich and can do anything she likes. She thoroughly deserves any acolades and she knows it.


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## tothemax6 (27 January 2011)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> There are some in the chattering media and whinging special-interest classes campaigning to discourage Australians from flying the flag or wear clothing containing the flag on Australia Day.
> 
> I would encourage all ASFers to be proud of our flag and celebrate the date of the arrival of the First Fleet at Port Jackson.
> 
> ...




+1 wear the flag with pride. The only thing the flag represents is ones nation, and what could be more un-australian, by definition, than refusing to subscribe to the flag? The anti-flag brigade (common in the west) are against national self determination, they dislike their own nation attempting to declare national identity, they are masochistic anti-western saboteurs who should be met with hearty laughter and vilification. 

Before the first settlement this place was a dust bowl, now it is a 1st world paradise. We should all be proud to be a part of it.


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## Whiskers (27 January 2011)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> There are some in the chattering media and whinging special-interest classes campaigning to discourage Australians from flying the flag or wear clothing containing the flag on Australia Day.
> 
> I would encourage all ASFers to be proud of our flag and celebrate the date of the arrival of the First Fleet at Port Jackson.
> 
> ...




Hmmm... I was brought up with that drummed into me at school... but now I think it should be more about representing an ideal or phylosophy than harking back to and continuing to be proud of or justify some pretty ordinary behaviour and attitudes that prevailed at the time. History should be recorded and remembered in the narrative, not the emotional if we are to move on (gaud I hate that phrase) as a nation.



Macquack said:


> When are we going to get OUR OWN FLAG.
> 
> I am sick of the patchwork flag that the rest of the world confuses with New Zealand.




I wouldn't go as far as 'sick' of it, but...



kennas said:


> I'll be waving a flag tomorrow.
> 
> :aus:
> 
> But* looking forward to an update*.




Ditto.



tothemax6 said:


> *Before the first settlement this place was a dust bowl*, now it is a 1st world paradise.




Was it!?


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## Wysiwyg (28 January 2011)

I was born in Australia yet I still don't know what an Australian is.


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## pixel (28 January 2011)

As a first-generation Australian, I have mixed feelings about both ANZAC Day amd Jan 26th.
Yes, and the Union Jack in the corner of our flag as well.

ANZAC and Union Jack "kind-of" go together, so let's treat them together.
Australians' participation in the battles of European monarchs against each other was the result of clever propaganda that persuaded Australians that their freedom was at stake. ANZACs were lured into a battle that had nothing to do with their personal or national freedom and all to do with British economic interests. Their undeniable bravery stands in stark contrast to the sheer incompetence, arrogance, and class hubris of the British Military leadership, who couldn't even read a map, thereby sending the troups into open enemy fire. We can't even say "couldn't read a map to save their lives" because it wasn't the generals' lives at stake, but the duped cannon fodders' lives.

Therefore, it's fallacious to say the disaster at Gallipoli was specifically Australian. Just like the Union Jack dominating one quarter of our flag, Gallipoli shows that Australians were conned and commandeered by exclusively British interests.

January 26th may qualify a little more as an historic milestone, being the first significant step on the road to becoming today's Australia. But I strongly empathize with the peoples that already inhabited the continent; the declaration of "Terra Nullius" and simply taking what clearly was not there to be taken, is an unsolved crime against humanity.
Conceded, it was in keeping with the morals and dominant thinking at the time, but I don't believe that the time that has passed since then makes it any less deplorable.

What then do we have that is uniquely Australian and able to make us proud to be Australian? 
Firstly, it's our sense of fairness and equality, which makes us treat any new acquaintance as a trustworthy potential friend. Only when someone turns out to be unworthy of our trust, will the friendly hand be retracted. To wit, "tall poppies", who give the impression of "being something better". Or new arrivals, who refuse to integrate, make no effort to learn the language, and consider the "culture" from which they come somehow superior to our tolerant attitudes.

Then there is our outdoors way of life, our plethora of sports, which comes natural in the kind of climate we're generally blessed with. 

Lastly, our pride in any and all achievements where a fellow Australian has been successful on the global stage. Not an ex-Irishman, Serb, Italian, or Chinese, who excelled in tennis, medicine, music, or chemistry, but an *Australian National *- regardless whether first year Aussie, second Generation, or Third Fleet.

How can we better celebrate that? If it has to remain the 26th of January, by all means keep it on a nice summer's day. But *focus on the achievements and pride of all Australians*, not simply a bunch of invading Brits, who took something that didn't belong to them - mainly because some of them had, back home, taken something that didn't belong to them.

*And if we could, one day, hopefully in my lifetime, become a truly independent Republic with our own flag and fully representative government of ALL our people, let that day become the New Australia Day.*


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## Julia (28 January 2011)

pixel said:


> What then do we have that is uniquely Australian and able to make us proud to be Australian?
> Firstly, it's our sense of fairness and equality, which makes us treat any new acquaintance as a trustworthy potential friend.



Why do you claim this is   'uniquely Australian"?


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## RandR (28 January 2011)

Im proud to be Australian, Im proud of the culture we are establishing (that of multi-culturalism) and I am proud of the values that 'most' Australians adhere to. I think its fantastic that we are part of a culture and society still in its infancy, and so its one that we can still influence the direction of

... but to an extent ...  i also believe patriotism to be an evil, it seems to do nothing but breed ignorance and ultimately seems to lead to suffering for humanity.


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## noco (28 January 2011)

RandR said:


> Im proud to be Australian, Im proud of the culture we are establishing (that of multi-culturalism) and I am proud of the values that 'most' Australians adhere to. I think its fantastic that we are part of a culture and society still in its infancy, and so its one that we can still influence the direction of
> 
> ... but to an extent ...  i also believe patriotism to be an evil, it seems to do nothing but breed ignorance and ultimately seems to lead to suffering for humanity.




Fifty years ago it used to be the lucky country and now that it's being run so many dumbwits, it is becoming the unlucky country......more and more taxes and higher cost of living. Spend, spend, spend and when it runs out just ask for more. It's about time they learned how to handle the tax payers money instead of squandering it.


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## pixel (29 January 2011)

Julia said:


> Why do you claim this is   'uniquely Australian"?



 Good question, Julia;
the answer may be only my own personal experience: 
"In no other country - and I've been to quite a few - have I found the same openness, coupled with irreverence, that I've found in Australians."
Sadly though, we're catching up with the rest of the world. Where not so long ago we left a door unlocked so friends could come in even when we were out, we now need not only locks deadbolted on doors and windows, but security systems that are monitored 24x7.


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## Julia (29 January 2011)

Hello Pixel, I know what you mean.  I was, um, just being a Kiwi which I will always be at heart:  New Zealanders are some of the most hospitable and friendly in the world which is why I had a little hissy fit about your suggesting such a characteristic was "uniquely Australian".


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## nulla nulla (29 January 2011)

Tink said:


> Just because we change a flag doesnt take away anything from the history, its still Australia. Wasnt the flag red at one stage, its already had a few changes.
> 
> I am not a flag waver anyways, dont even possess a flag, but it would be nice to have an individual Australian flag when it gets raised at events where they dont mix it up with others.




I'm happy to be corrected but I think the red version of our flag may be (or have been) the Naval (merchant) version of our flag.

Australian Red Ensign

http://www.itsanhonour.gov.au/symbols/otherflag.cfm#Defence


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## Logique (29 January 2011)

Calliope said:


> ...No humbleness about this girl [Jessica Watson]. No nonsense about role models or "showing the spirit of Queensland" either. She did what she wanted to do. And now she's rich and can do anything she likes. She thoroughly deserves any acolades and she knows it.



She's rich? Must have been a lot of upfront costs to recoup? But she's a straight-up kid no doubt. If she's rich she deserves to be. 

She'd go alright as a pollie I reckon. Premier Watson, sounds alright.


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## Bill M (29 January 2011)

pixel said:


> Where not so long ago we left a door unlocked so friends could come in even when we were out, we now need not only locks deadbolted on doors and windows, but security systems that are monitored 24x7.




I lock my door all the time, don't want friends, neighbors or anyone to come around unannounced, hate being disturbed. Some people don't take the hint, LEAVE US ALONE...:sleeping:

Oh yeah and I'm an Aussie too.:aus:


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## noco (29 January 2011)

RandR said:


> Im proud to be Australian, Im proud of the culture we are establishing (that of multi-culturalism) and I am proud of the values that 'most' Australians adhere to. I think its fantastic that we are part of a culture and society still in its infancy, and so its one that we can still influence the direction of
> 
> ... but to an extent ...  i also believe patriotism to be an evil, it seems to do nothing but breed ignorance and ultimately seems to lead to suffering for humanity.




You won't be so proud to be an Australian when, not if, Australia becomes an Islamic state. Then you will get your wish for a new flag.
Thank God I won't be around when it happens.


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## tothemax6 (30 January 2011)

Wysiwyg said:


> I was born in Australia yet I still don't know what an Australian is.



That is because the term Australian has a weak basis. National genesis requires geo-demographic discontinuities to persist over a sustained period. For instance, it is quite clear what a Japanese person is. This is because the nation has existed in some form for a long time, they have their own unique language, a *highly *unique culture, and most importantly _high nativity of ancestors_. A Japanese person is born of the same, and so on, for many generations back. Indeed this has led to the firmest distinction between peoples that can occur - you can spot a Japanese person by physical appearance. 
An Australian, on the other hand, does not have a distinct language, has only minor cultural distinctions (non-distinct diets, religions, customs etc), and very low nativity of ancestors. The reality is that looking for 'what is Australian' is always going to be clutching at straws.


Whiskers said:


> Was it!?



It was, nice big dust bowl. Some people enjoy living in that, but I fail to see the virtue.


RandR said:


> Im proud to be Australian, Im proud of the culture we are establishing (that of multi-culturalism)



Nonsense. What colour is 'multi-coloured'? What colour is a rainbow? Multi-culturalism is not a culture, it is the demographic situation in which a host culture commits self-dissolution.
The man who _likes_ multiple cultures was quite happy with the world before this new abomination called 'multi-culturalism'. He could travel to all the countries and their cultures, un-mixed, and enjoy their uniqueness. Good luck to him doing that now. Cultures mix. They can only exist by their separation and territoriality. There is a long list of cultures that no longer exist - and there is only one way in which a culture can cease to exist. Immigration, supplantation, submergence, dissolution. 


noco said:


> You won't be so proud to be an Australian when, not if, Australia becomes an Islamic state. Then you will get your wish for a new flag.
> Thank God I won't be around when it happens.



Highly unlikely. Europe states will start to go first, and this will change the attitude in others nations (like China, India, Southern Africa, Australia, Americas) to be more anti-Islamic as they tune in to reality. Only Europe actually has the percentage of muslims for the problems to start.


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## pixel (30 January 2011)

Julia said:


> Hello Pixel, I know what you mean.  I was, um, just being a Kiwi which I will always be at heart:  New Zealanders are some of the most hospitable and friendly in the world which is why I had a little hissy fit about your suggesting such a characteristic was "uniquely Australian".



 Well, Julia:
All the nice Kiwis - and I agree, there are many of those - are considered Aussies anyway. (unless they beat us in Rugby or Cricket, but that's a rare event, so hardly counts.)

Still have to find a time slot to visit NZ - Mrs P would love to spend a few months holidaying there.


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## RandR (30 January 2011)

Julia said:


> Hello Pixel, I know what you mean.  I was, um, just being a Kiwi which I will always be at heart:  New Zealanders are some of the most hospitable and friendly in the world which is why I had a little hissy fit about your suggesting such a characteristic was "uniquely Australian".




Hey Julia, want to know why New Zealand has never made it to the moon ?



....


they dont have enough scaffolding to get there ;p



			
				Noco said:
			
		

> You won't be so proud to be an Australian when, not if, Australia becomes an Islamic state. Then you will get your wish for a new flag.
> Thank God I won't be around when it happens.




1. Australia will not become an Islamic state .... to suggest so is just a touch slightly crazy imo ... time to take off your tin foil hat perhaps.

2. I have never expressed a wish for a new flag. Why are you saying I am ?

3. Thank God ! Pray tell me what the difference is between god and allah ? Is one religion acceptable to you and another not ?

4. Dont dare tell me when or not if I can be proud to be Australian.


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## noco (30 January 2011)

RandR said:


> Hey Julia, want to know why New Zealand has never made it to the moon ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I hope you are young enough to be able to eat your words.

It all depends whether you believe in God or Allah. Nobody has yet proved they exist.

Being a leftist sheep follower, I reckon you would have to agree to a new flag whether you liked it or not.

Yeah R & R, I'm a proud Australian third generation and have three generations after me, but I fear what sort of a life they will have down the track. We already have an Australian born Muslim saying Gillard is an illegal government and should move aside to allow sharia law to be introduced.


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## RandR (30 January 2011)

noco said:


> I hope you are young enough to be able to eat your words.




Noco, im 23. If your posts are truthful you would be 80yrs plus, as i remember you talking about growing up in the 30's. If that is true i understand that you have grown up in a world entirely different to the one i have grown up in, and have been taught things that would seem strange to me, as i have been taught things that would surely seem strange to you.

I can quite confidently assure you, Australia will not become an Islamic State mate, honestly .



> Being a leftist sheep follower, I reckon you would have to agree to a new flag whether you liked it or not.




Here we go again, you dare think you have the right to tell me what I believe ? Based on some stereotypical crap ? Btw ... im not a leftist. I am my own person, i think independently on issues and come to conclusions based upon my feelings and attitudes, not pre-subscribed leftist/rightist nonsense.



> Yeah R & R, I'm a proud Australian third generation and have three generations after me, but I fear what sort of a life they will have down the track. We already have an Australian born Muslim saying Gillard is an illegal government and should move aside to allow sharia law to be introduced.




I too, fear the life me and any future generations of people will have down the track, because our lives are entirely unsustainable.

Providing one example of a crazy idiot who happens to be a muslim proves absolutely nothing....

Because I can provide you with countless examples of Australian Born fundamental christian sects who similarly believe they are above the law and governance of this country. (the brotherhood !)

 I think its important that we distinguish these people for what they are, ie: there crazy assholes who quite obviously do not represant the population at large.


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## Wysiwyg (30 January 2011)

tothemax6 said:


> That is because the term Australian has a weak basis.
> An Australian, on the other hand, does not have a distinct language, has only minor cultural distinctions (non-distinct diets, religions, customs etc), and very low nativity of ancestors. The reality is that looking for 'what is Australian' is always going to be clutching at straws.



Summed up well.


> The man who _likes_ multiple cultures was quite happy with the world before this new abomination called 'multi-culturalism'. He could travel to all the countries and their cultures, un-mixed, and enjoy their uniqueness. Good luck to him doing that now.



Yes I agree. I don't see how the whole tribe can integrate while having completely different ideologies. Matter of fact they don't or can't psychologically integrate due to language, customs, dress, fear, paranoia. A lion and a tiger are both cats but they don't live together. 

What is possible I think is an integration of like minded races.


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## noco (30 January 2011)

RandR said:


> Noco, im 23. If your posts are truthful you would be 80yrs plus, as i remember you talking about growing up in the 30's. If that is true i understand that you have grown up in a world entirely different to the one i have grown up in, and have been taught things that would seem strange to me, as i have been taught things that would surely seem strange to you.
> 
> I can quite confidently assure you, Australia will not become an Islamic State mate, honestly .
> 
> ...




Well, firstly you have a lot of living and learning ahead of you my boy to realise what is happening around you.
I have a very good article written by Nonie Darwish a Muslim woman born in Egypt, unfortuneatly I cannot at this stage provide a link.
She recently authored the book, A CRUEL and USUAL PUNISHMENT: The TERRIFYING GLOBAL IMPLICATIONS OF ISLAMIC LAW.

Herewith are a couple of passages she writes:-

In the Muslim faith a man can marry a child as young as 1 year old and have sexual intimacy with child, cosummating the marriage by 9. The dowry is given to the family in exchange for the woman (who becomes his slave)  and for the purchase of the private parts of the woman, to use her as a toy.

In twenty years there will be enough Muslims voters in the US. to elect the President by themselves! Rest assured they will do so...You can look at how they have taken over sveral towns in the USA..Dearborn Mich. is one...and there are others. 

For the West, she says radical Islamists are working to impose sharia on the world.Western civilization will be destroyed. Westerners generally assume all religions encourage a respect for the dignity of each individual. Islamic law (Sharia) teaches that non-Muslims should be subjugated or killed in this world.


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## Logique (25 January 2012)

Logique said:


> ...Eureka flag - my preference for it may surprise some, but I think the BLF and AWU just borrowed the Eureka flag. They don't and never did own it.
> It's time we re-appropriated it for the nation. The national flag is there staring us in the face, the penny just needs to drop... it begs the rhetorical absurdism, in this case [the current flag] why wouldn't you have the Chinese flag in the corner.



Ah the  annual barney about the flag. I haven't changed my mind, we must transition to the Eureka Flag, you know it makes sense.  If we must retain the current flag, the Chinese flag is more relevant to have in the corner. Anyway I've got the lamb in for tomorrow.


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## Julia (25 January 2012)

I've been amused and a bit exasperated to read accounts by journalists that those people who attach the Australian flag to their cars around the time of Australia Day are likely to be racist!

For heaven's sake     Why can't they just be ordinary Australians celebrating the fact that they live in one of the best countries in the world.
I'm bewildered by the apparent intention of parts of the media to see discrimination where none necessarily exists.


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## sptrawler (25 January 2012)

Julia said:


> I've been amused and a bit exasperated to read accounts by journalists that those people who attach the Australian flag to their cars around the time of Australia Day are likely to be racist!
> 
> For heaven's sake     Why can't they just be ordinary Australians celebrating the fact that they live in one of the best countries in the world.
> I'm bewildered by the apparent intention of parts of the media to see discrimination where none necessarily exists.




What cracked me up Julia, was that the survey was conducted by a few U.W.A people on a sample of 540 interviews.
Wow that's conclusive and how easy, with such a small sample, to select by 'appearance' for the desired outcome.
What I don't understand is why newspaper editors don't do their job a stamp out crap reporting.


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## pixel (25 January 2012)

sptrawler said:


> What cracked me up Julia, was that the survey was conducted by a few U.W.A people on a sample of 540 interviews.
> Wow that's conclusive and how easy, with such a small sample, to select by 'appearance' for the desired outcome.
> What I don't understand is why newspaper editors don't do their job a stamp out crap reporting.



 What cracked me up even more was another "coincidence"; see if you can spot it:







> sociologist and anthropologist Professor Farida Fozdar and a team of  assistants surveyed 513 people at the Australia Day fireworks on Perth's  Swan River foreshore last year to find out whether there was a link  between car flag flying and racist attitudes



Anyway, if it's been "researched" a year ago, why rake the muck back up now? What could possibly be the objective of this article? http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...aussie-car-flags/story-e6freooo-1226251987498

Let's leave it there; I've got to go and put those Aussie flags on my car. Maybe take Logique's advice and cut out the top-left corner. Anybody got a matching red sheet with one big and 4 little golden stars?


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## bellenuit (26 January 2012)

What I found infuriating was the assumption of racism on the answers to some questions where there may have been none at all. Take this question as reported in the above link:

_*Professor Fozdar said the team found that of the 102 people surveyed on the day who had attached flags to their cars for the national holiday, 43 per cent agreed with the statement that the now-abandoned “White Australia Policy” had “saved Australia from many problems experienced by other countries”.  

She said that only 25 per cent of people who did not fly Australia car flags agreed with the statement. 

Under the “White Australia Policy”, which was non-official government policy until after World War II, non-Europeans were barred from migrating to Australia.*_

I could certainly agree with the statement _the “White Australia Policy” had “saved Australia from many problems experienced by other countries”_ and still at the same time not support the White Australia policy. 

There are clearly problems in many non-white immigrant ethnic communities, just as there are in white immigrant communities. By definition the problems in non-white immigrant ethnic communities would not exist if there were no non-white immigrant ethnic communities, which would be the case if the White Australia Policy was not dropped. That is just a statement of fact. But that doesn't mean that there were no benefits to dropping the White Australia Policy. We have a far more interesting country and many appreciate the diversity. 

The researchers are assuming that agreeing to the statement implies that the responder supports the White Australia Policy. They have no right to make that assumption.


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## todster (26 January 2012)

This place is turning into Facebook for over 50s


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## Glen48 (26 January 2012)

Read some where think nine news that waving the Oz flag means you are racist.
 Most wouldn't know the difference between NZ, the Poms and ours time for a new one.
 Maybe the feds can spend a few mil and get one of their own to do a study tripping around the world looking and call the survey "Flagon"


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## wayneL (26 January 2012)

pixel said:


> Good question, Julia;
> the answer may be only my own personal experience:
> "In no other country - and I've been to quite a few - have I found the same openness, coupled with irreverence, that I've found in Australians."
> Sadly though, we're catching up with the rest of the world. Where not so long ago we left a door unlocked so friends could come in even when we were out, we now need not only locks deadbolted on doors and windows, but security systems that are monitored 24x7.




I've not found that at all.

I've lived in Canada, USA, Aus, England and now NZ and don't find Aussies much different to the rest... just a different style.

In fact the best place in the world I've been where you can walk into a place alone and most likely end up the night with a group of new friends is Bavaria in southern Germany... followed by the good old English pub.

Canadians are also particularly friendly ('cept the Quebecois ).


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## breaker (26 January 2012)

and peter garrett with invasion day


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## Tink (26 January 2012)

I think its gone over the top all the Australian flags on cars etc that we see today. 

I suppose each to their own, I am not a flag waver.

I would say its built up the last 5 or so years


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## Logique (26 January 2012)

todster said:


> This place is turning into Facebook for over 50s



 Seriously, I think you actually want to be reported Todster. You may get your wish, since an ASF mods tribunal appearance can't be far away for you.


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## todster (26 January 2012)

Logique said:


> Seriously, I think you actually want to be reported Todster. You may get your wish, since an ASF mods tribunal appearance can't be far away for you.




Seriously an international furore over a survey of 540 people get a grip mate.


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## Calliope (26 January 2012)

Tink said:


> I think its gone over the top all the Australian flags on cars etc that we see today.
> 
> I suppose each to their own, I am not a flag waver.
> 
> I would say its built up the last 5 or so years




They are not racist...just morons. Have a look at some of those with flags painted on their moronic faces.


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## IFocus (26 January 2012)

Logique said:


> Ah the  annual barney about the flag. I haven't changed my mind, we must transition to the *Eureka Flag*, you know it makes sense.  If we must retain the current flag, the Chinese flag is more relevant to have in the corner. Anyway I've got the lamb in for tomorrow.




Ah so you support the workers / union movement after all............


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## Julia (26 January 2012)

The ABC just can't help itself.  The presenter of the "Arts and Books" show this morning was referring to "Survival Day".


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## Calliope (26 January 2012)

Julia said:


> The ABC just can't help itself.  The presenter of the "Arts and Books" show this morning was referring to "Survival Day".




The _Guardian _ newspaper is not backward in supporting this nonsense.



> Australia celebrates Australia Day today, marking 224 years since the declaration of British sovereignty and the arrival of the first fleet of convict ships. Australia remains the only Commonwealth country not to have a treaty with its original owners, and although a treaty may have made little difference to the lives of aboriginal Australians, the celebration of Australia Day on unceded land makes many non-aboriginal Australians, myself included, feel highly uncomfortable.
> 
> Along with the celebrations, there will also be *"Invasion Day" and "Survival Day" *protests led by aboriginal activists across the country.




http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentis...ginal-australians-australia-day?newsfeed=true


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## orr (26 January 2012)

Julia said:


> The ABC just can't help itself.  The presenter of the "Arts and Books" show this morning was referring to "Survival Day".



Hey Julia
It's all about perspective.
You don't hear the Armenians crowing the praises of Ataturk.
"Little big Horn"... "Wounded Knee". 
"The High Land Clearances"...
It's all back there, It's where we all come from.

Your not against people knowing?
There'll be enough out there this afternoon pi$$ed, surely that little 'tinkle' is hardly ruining the parade. What the listening Audience 2.7% more or less? I'd be happy if jingoism was at the same rating


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## Calliope (26 January 2012)

*It's all Abbott's fault.* Abbott's remark this morning that the"aboriginal tent embassy" should be closed started a riot by a mob meeting at the tent embassy, in which Gillard and Abbott were lucky to escape unharmed. They are just gutless thugs.



> One of the protesters, the chairman of the Northern Basin Aboriginal nations, Fred Hooper, spoke to Sky News shortly after the politicians’ dramatic exit, explaining why they caused the incident.
> ‘‘We were peacefully celebrating the 40th anniversary of the aboriginal tent embassy. The opposition leader on national television made a comment to tear down something that have built over 40 years, which is sacred to us,’’ he said.
> ‘‘So what do you expect us to do when we're 200 yards away from the person that makes that comment? Do you expect us to say, ‘yeah Tony we're gonna do that now? We're gonna rip it down?’’’




Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/pm--...-protesters-20120126-1qj1c.html#ixzz1kYF4t4AY















-


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## bellenuit (26 January 2012)

Calliope said:


> *It's all Abbott's fault.* Abbott's remark this morning that the"aboriginal tent embassy" should be closed started a riot by a mob meeting at the tent embassy, in which Gillard and Abbott were lucky to escape unharmed. They are just gutless thugs.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/pm--...-protesters-20120126-1qj1c.html#ixzz1kYF4t4AY




It's amazing how people hear what they want to hear. The audio comment at the smh link said Abbott called for the tent embassy to be removed. Aboriginal protester Fred Hooper in the above article said Abbott "made a comment to tear down something that have built over 40 years" "To be removed" and "tear down" are very emotive words, none of which were used by Abbott. The comments implied Abbott wanted the police to forcefully remove the tent embassy. But, this is what he actually said:

_"Look, I can understand why the Tent Embassy was established all those years ago. I think a lot has changed for the better since then. We had the historic apology just a few years ago, one of the genuine achievements of Kevin Rudd as prime minister. We had the proposal which is currently for national consideration to recognise indigenous people in the constitution. I think the indigenous people of Australia can be very proud of the respect in which they are held by every Australian and yes, I think a lot has changed since then and I think it probably is time to move on from that."_

*It is time to move on*. That is not calling on anyone to tear down the tent embassy or for anyone to remove it. He is suggesting that a lot has changed since the tent city was erected and maybe it is time for aborigines to move on from that means of protest. Implying, IMO, that the aborigines themselves should *consider* removing the tent embassy. 

I think it was the same Fred Hooper in a Sky interview that accused Abbott of cowardice because he was behind Gillard as both exited from the building. It was quite clear from the video footage, that the police and security guards were dictating how both should exit the building. He and Gillard were doing what they were told to do. Everything I heard from Hooper today suggest he is an utter racist.


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## Logique (6 February 2012)

IFocus said:


> Ah so you support the workers / union movement after all............



You got me there IF. Actually I was a member of the satanic unions in a past life. It was one of those workplaces where membership, although not  officially compulsory, was desirable if you ever wanted to be promoted. Not sure if this constitituted informed consent at the time. Certainly I was never made aware as a member that  union funds were flowing to the ALP.

But it was all back in the days of Hawkey, who I voted for btw.

The BLF only borrowed the Eureka Flag, it belongs to the nation.

I loath what the Australia Day holiday has become in the noughties, just a bogan p-s- up.


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## DocK (6 February 2012)

We were discussing the issues surrounding Australia Day with our kids recently, and I wondered aloud if perhaps the celebration of Aussie-ness should be moved to another date, and if perhaps changing it to the date of Federation would lead to less trouble re Invasion Day/Survival Day etc.  I'm a proud Aussie and like to celebrate what that means to me on a special day, in a quiet way, generally involving barbequed lamb of some description.  My suggestion was met with horror from my sons whose main concern was that they'd lose a public holiday as Federation Day and NYE is of course the same day.  

It does seem that Australia Day is losing its meaning and relevance with younger generations, and is being used more as a cause for trouble and strife than for celebrating all that is great and good in this wide, brown, wonderful land of ours.  

I wonder if my hope that we'll one day get to change it to the date Australia becomes a republic will come to fruitiion?  Would that have any greater relevance to the population as a whole do you think?


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## Logique (6 February 2012)

With you all the way there DocK.  







> *DocK*:
> I wonder if my hope that we'll one day get to change it to the date Australia becomes a republic will come to fruition? Would that have any greater relevance to the population as a whole do you think?



Absolutely it would, and I say bring it on. But still, I  hope they don't declare the new republic on the last weekend before school goes back after summer holidays.


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