# Another boatload of asylum seekers intercepted by Navy



## Solly (25 April 2009)

*The Navy has intercepted a boat carrying 56 asylum seekers off Australia's northern coast.*

It's off to see Santa again....

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/25/2552610.htm


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## So_Cynical (25 April 2009)

Solly said:


> *The Navy has intercepted a boat carrying 56 asylum seekers off Australia's northern coast.*
> 
> It's off to see Santa again....
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/25/2552610.htm




:sleeping:


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## It's Snake Pliskin (26 April 2009)

Considering the government's policy it is not surprising. Does China take in immigrants?


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## Bobby (26 April 2009)

Asylum seekers  ?  how about calling them for what they realy are -  economical parasites   ..


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## Julia (28 March 2010)

The government has claimed that the increased arrivals of asylum seekers has been solely due to so called push factors, i.e. wars in other countries.

This article fairly clearly sets the record right on this in that Australia's arrivals are not in line with the rest of the world.

Today's "Sunday Mail" reports that the Brisbane Transit Centre is now full.
So we are now accommodating the overflow from Christmas Island in four star motels.

Might be good to show the same hospitality to some of our own homeless people.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/pol...nl&emcmp=Punch&emchn=Newsletter&emlist=Member


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## Agentm (29 March 2010)

Julia said:


> The government has claimed that the increased arrivals of asylum seekers has been solely due to so called push factors, i.e. wars in other countries.
> 
> This article fairly clearly sets the record right on this in that Australia's arrivals are not in line with the rest of the world.
> 
> ...




time to get real i think, imho your lacking great deal of compassion toward humanity..

An Appeal Letter over the Plights of Rohingya Refugees Boat People

in Thailand and Indonesia.



We, Myanmar Ethnic Rohingya Human Rights Organization Malaysia (MERHROM) are very much concerned over on going situation of Burmese refugees, especially for people who flee for fear of persecutions and facing again various violations in country of refuge. In particular, recently arrived Burmese Rohingya boat people refugees who were released by Thai authority into the sea to death.



We are very much concerned over Thai authority mistreatment over separately arrival of 1,000 Rohingya Burmese refugee boat people. They were detained in horrific condition for two to four weeks before the Thai authority release them into international water at mid-night without engines and foods. Boat people therefore, flowed separately into Andaman-India, Aceh province of Indonesia and some back to Burma. Hundred of dead bodies were recovered by Indian coast guard, about 500 were feared dead. Whereas, some claimed as Bangladeshi due to fear of forced deportation to Burma.



The Rohingya boat people who reached into Thailand and Indonesia were deem as economic migrants and therefore treated as undocumented migrants. We condemn the act of both countries who denied access for the UNHCR to the boat people. We feel very sad as the ASEAN countries are silent about the mistreatment of the boat people by Thai authority. This clearly shows that the ASEAN countries are reluctant to tarnish the image of its member states. While there is lack of transparent approach on vulnerable boat people, genuine reasons of leaving the country will be left behind. Finally, their claim as refugee was delayed on both countries’ reluctant to deal with UNHCR and they will be repatriated and prosecuted by the military junta. By doing this both countries are considered as committing genocide indirectly towards Rohingya boat people. The Thai government had violated International Laws, its democratic rules, and generosity and kindness of Thai people. Instead of protecting the vulnerable boat people, the Thai government sentenced them under the Immigration Act which resulted in force deportation to Burma.



The military junta had expressed that Rohingya had no historical connection with Myanmar. The junta official said “there is no so-called Rohingya ethnic minority group in our history before or after our independence”. He further added “it is totally unacceptable to say Rohingyas are from Myanmar’. (New Straits Times, January 30, 2009). This is a total lie by the military junta as the Rohingya exist in Arakan State as early as 7th Century A.D. Rohingyas has long history in Arakan State of Burma but the military junta refused to accept the fact. This made Rohingya as stateless and facing continuous abuses and prosecutions from the regime.

There are about 230 000 Rohingya seeking protection in Bangladesh though Rohingya are not welcome by the Bangladesh government. This is a result of the persecutions towards ethnic Rohingya by the military junta. They are also not safe as many of them had forcefully repatriated by the Bangladesh government and face prosecutions by the junta. Thousands of Rohingya refugees in detentions for more than a decade are under way for repatriation. The harsh treatment by the Bangladesh government forced them to find a safe place and started leaving the country across the sea by boat.



But, SPDC government has good gains with Bangladesh. Thus, Bangladesh dared to commit against humanity, international laws, instead of its Islamic obligations. Bangladesh had succeeded in repatriating thousands of Rohingya refugees without mechanism to protect them widely in 1992, and it continues secretly.



Another 15 000 Rohingya are seeking protection from the Malaysian government for the past 3 decades. Malaysia is not a signatory country to the Refugee Convention 1951 and has no legislation for refugees protection, therefore, refugees are considered as undocumented migrants and facing deportation. MERHROM continuously appealing to the Malaysian government to protect Burmese refugees until relocate to a signatory country. While the UNHCR has started Resettlement for Rohingya refugees in Bangladesh, we hope the UNHCR will accelerate the same to the Rohingya refugees in Malaysia. The equal treatment has to be accorded to all refugees without distinction as refugees face similar situation and for some ethnic group like stateless Rohingya are even worst.



Well known to the world that we Rohingyas are the worst victim of human rights violations and defecto stateless group in Burma which forced us to flee into neighboring countries.



The Rohingya situation became worst in late 1960 by promotion of Buddhism as the state religion by U Nu government. It had continuously taken place in regard of capitalism and to create tension between Rakhines and Rohingyas, and constituted Rakhine state from Arakan division through restoration of Rakine territory.



Rohingyas were widely affected by;

   1.

      Na Ga Min Operation in 1978 under U Nu government (Revolutionary Govt.)
   2.

      Pyi Ta Yar Operation in 1991 under Saw Maung government (State Law and Order Restoration Council).
   3.

      Na Sa Ka Operation since 1992 under State Peace and Development Council (SPDC).

Both Na Ga Min and Pyi Ta Yar operations made about 500,000 Rohingyas to flee into neighboring countries particularly in Bangladesh.



The military junta has perpetrated severe human rights violations against ethnic Rohingya including;

   1.

      Destruction of homes, settlements, villages, mosques and religious schools
   2.

      Denial of Citizenship by 1982 Citizen Law and rejected from ethnic groups
   3.

      Severe restriction of movement
   4.

      Restriction on the right to marry and form a family
   5.

      Confiscation of land and property
   6.

      Denied education
   7.

      Force labor
   8.

      Raped and Sexual violence
   9.

      Arbitrary killings and arrests
  10.

      Tortures, extortions and taxations
  11.

      Muslim settlements were being substituted by new settlers.



The report published by the Altsean Burma entitle “Rohingya and Muslims in Arakan State: Slow-Burning Genocide” has clearly reveals gross human rights violations towards ethnic Rohingya. The recent report published by the Refugee International and Christian Solidarity Worldwide reveals the same. Unfortunately, the world leaders and the United Nations are not doing enough to address the plight of Rohingya refugees in Arakan and in exile. The ignorance of the world leaders and the United Nations over the worsening situation in Burma only increase the death of Burmese people under the rules of military regime.



While the military continues its ethnic cleansing and persecution towards Rohingyas, many are fleeing continuously into unexpected region like Bangladesh, Thailand and Malaysia. Thus, they required to meet international protection in country of refuge. They cannot be considered as illegal. Their genuine reasons for leaving the country must be recognized.



We observed that Refugees Agency-UNHCR is weak in protecting refugees from where persecution and crimes took place. Therefore, MERHROM would like to draw kind attention over unfortunate boat people refugees. The UNHCR with its mandate have to play more active role to identify and protect refugees and increase dialogue with source and host country of refugees to stop criminalizing and deportation of refugees in accordance to the International Standards.



We appeal to the ASEAN countries to protect Burmese refugees particularly Rohingyas due to its stateless status and their vulnerability. ASEAN countries must refer all refugees who reached at their land to the UNHCR for their protection.



We appeal to the world leaders especially to the leaders of the Resettlement countries to accept stateless Rohingya refugees in the Resettlement program as many of them are facing human rights violations in the host countries and denied Resettlement to the third country.


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## Tink (29 March 2010)

I cant believe we complain for 2,000 people



> The US received 49,000 asylum claims, more than any other industrialised country. The US was followed by France (42,000), Canada (33,300) Britain (29,800) and Germany (27,600).


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## Happy (29 March 2010)

To make sure that poor souls (who miraculously have enough money to pay bribes and ticket to get smuggled and jump the queue) do not endanger themselves, why our Navy doesn’t pick them up from places they depart from?

We take them anyway, and this way it would be much, much safer and most probably UN will commend us for that.

Once our wealth and good life will be diluted to what they run away from, there will be stop of any further immigration and maybe some will try to find greener pastures elsewhere.


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## bunyip (29 March 2010)

Agentm said:


> time to get real i think, imho your lacking great deal of compassion toward humanity..




I think it's time for *you* to get real and understand a few things.....

* Julia has worked tirelessly for many years as a voluntary worker for disadvantaged people in her community. She has the brains to see that rather than trying to solve the problems of disadvantaged people from other countries, there's plenty of scope for her right here at home to try and help people less fortunate than herself.
She'd probably leave you and me for dead when it comes to compassion for other people. 
So don't lecture her about  lacking compassion towards humanity.


* Governments must (or should) make decisions based first and foremost on economics and national security. By taking in all these illegal refugees, most of whom don't speak English, have little in the way of job skills, and are an economic burden on us from the outset, we place an enormous burden on our financial and physical resources. From a security angle, some of them may well become the next terrorists planning attacks on Australia. This has already been proven in other countries. Indeed, right here in Australia we currently have in custody a number of Muslims who are being held on charges of plotting a terrorist attack on our country. We allow them in, they plan to attack and kill us.  
The more of them we take in, the less people we can accept from English speaking countries - people with job skills and whose values, culture and religions are similar to those of mainstream Australia. These people would immediately slot into our communities and start making a contribution to our country and our economy, rather then being a burden on us as most of these illegal refugees are.

* While there are many people in the world who have copped a rough deal due to wars, political and religious persecution etc, it's not our role to try and solve their problems. We have no obligation to play nurse maid to the rest of the world.

* If compassion and humanity are high on your list of priorities, there's plenty of scope for them right here in our own country. We have many thousands of homeless people who need our help. We have many people below the poverty line who need our help. We have many physically and intellectually disabled people who need our help, but at present receive only minimal government funding. 
We have many aged pensioners who have worked most of their lives, paid their taxes, but receive pensions that barely allow them to live above the breadline.
I'd much rather see our funds and resources directed to these people, rather than to illegal immigrants.

In this country we can't even adequately provide our own citizens with decent facilities such as an acceptable health care system, decent roads, reliable water supplies, fire and emergency services, yet we're spending billions on overseas aid and on illegal refugees.

It's easy to become complacent and think 'There only a few thousand of these refugees - it's no trouble for a wealthy country like Australia to take them, so what's the big deal'.
This sort of thinking is blind and short-sighted, and fails to see the potential for the illegal refugee problem to escalate. The illegal boat people started off as a trickle but has now become a flood. And it's getting worse. Why? Because since Rudd dismantled the effective measures that Howard put in place to curb illegal immigration, the word has got out that Australia is a soft touch.
Result - our processing facilities are overflowing, our personnel can't cope, and our finances are under strain. And the number of boat people keeps increasing.

It's a serious problem, but unfortunately the Rudd government are not taking it seriously by implementing appropriate measures to deal with it.

I get more than a little tired of hearing you bleeding hearts talking about compassion and humanity in an effort to invoke feelings of guilt in those of us who are not in favour of seeing our country swamped by illegal immigrants.


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## Julia (29 March 2010)

Agent M and Tink:  you have no justification for suggesting I lack compassion for refugees on the basis that I posted a link to an item contradicting the government's assertions re refugees:  or further, that I would like to see the same accommodation provided to Australians who are disadvantaged.

Consider perhaps that those refugees who have been waiting in camps for years are now being pushed further back down the list because the public servants doing the processing are being swamped with the 'urgent' processing of those who have preferred not to apply for admission to Australia under the formal channels.

We now have admitted to Australia many of the people who deliberately set fire to their boat last year, endangering the lives of our Defence personnel as well as their own.  You're of course entitled to your preference as to the character of new Australians.  Personally, I'd rather have those who show the courage to follow the proper application process.

Tink, it's not about anything as simplistic as just numbers:  it's about principles, and what is fair to all refugees.


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## newbie trader (29 March 2010)

Julia said:


> Might be good to show the same hospitality to some of our own homeless people.




Couldn't agree more Julia, the government doesnt seem to want to help its own citizens. I think Oz care in Bris is possibly closing down or already closed due to political disagreements and lack of funding.

"economical parasites" - I wonder if anyone knows which countries citizens 'leech' off us the most...I know the answer, however, I dont have a link to validate it (the answer will suprise you).

NT


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## Happy (29 March 2010)

Two more boats with queue jumpers today:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/03/29/2859202.htm?section=justin



> ASYLUM BOATS INTERCEPTED
> 
> Two more boats carrying asylum seekers have been detected in Australian waters, taking the total to 100 since Labor won the 2007 election.
> …


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## Calliope (30 March 2010)

Our Border Reception Society (aka Border Protection Command) has let our beloved boat people down badly.

Instead of receiving Rudd's 100th boat with a befitting reception and escort, the HMAS Broome remained at anchor while this boat with it's 41 refugees sailed quietly into Flying Fish Cove and had to ring the authorities to announce their arrival.

The crew of the HMAS Broome are badly in need of a hospitality course.


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## trainspotter (1 April 2010)

Can anyone advise me as to how many deaths in transit there has been since Rudd's Government has laid out the red carpet to the "illegal" boat immigrants?

OOOOOPSSS .. here comes another boatload http://www.news.com.au/breaking-new...christmas-island/story-e6frfku0-1225848559856 TODAY !


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## Happy (1 April 2010)

They don’t even think that people who pay smugglers to enter our waters are not for fun called ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. 
What they do is not legal and we give them visa even if our Government knows that they conduct themselves in corrupt manner to do that.

Why aren’t they failed on: Character grounds?

If they conduct themselves in illegal manner, what message they get? 
Is it the first and the last time they did/are going to do illegally?
Aren’t we risking injection of corrupt people into our society?
How is it going to affect our community’s moral/ethical standards?

How when are we going to re-educate them that what they did is ILLEGAL?
So many questions and nobody in Labor Government see it as problem.


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## Calliope (10 April 2010)

Julia said:


> The government has claimed that the increased arrivals of asylum seekers has been solely due to so called push factors, i.e. wars in other countries.




Mr Rudd has now discounted "push" factors in Afghanistan and Sri Lanka where most of the smuggled boaties come from. This is tantamount to admitting that it is his "meet, greet and welcome" policy that is pulling them in.


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## Julia (10 April 2010)

Calliope said:


> Mr Rudd has now discounted "push" factors in Afghanistan and Sri Lanka where most of the smuggled boaties come from. This is tantamount to admitting that it is his "meet, greet and welcome" policy that is pulling them in.



And of course it is.  But he will no doubt say that 'conditions have now changed in those countries' so there is no longer the push factor.

It's just a little odd that DFAT is still warning Australians not to travel in Afghanistan due to the extreme security risks.


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## pilots (10 April 2010)

Calliope said:


> Our Border Reception Society (aka Border Protection Command) has let our beloved boat people down badly.
> 
> Instead of receiving Rudd's 100th boat with a befitting reception and escort, the HMAS Broome remained at anchor while this boat with it's 41 refugees sailed quietly into Flying Fish Cove and had to ring the authorities to announce their arrival.
> 
> The crew of the HMAS Broome are badly in need of a hospitality course.




Now if our Navy can't find a tub that has a top speed of say 10knots, how are they ever going to find a say drug smuggler who has the best boats with a good top speed??? its all a joke.


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## Calliope (11 April 2010)

pilots said:


> Now if our Navy can't find a tub that has a top speed of say 10knots, how are they ever going to find a say drug smuggler who has the best boats with a good top speed??? its all a joke.




Yes, and the joke is on us. I was reading this morning that each Federal MP costs the taxpayer 1 million dollars. It would be interesting to know what the cost of each boat person is. The Naval escort service must be costing us a packet for starters. The are not working for the taxpayer. They are only there to assist the boaties. If they have no intention of turning these boats around they shouldn't be there.

The Christmas Island scam should be shut down. If we want migrants we can get legal ones more cheaply.

The biggest joke of all is that small minority pressure groups and foreigners are trying to dictate to us what "refugees" we should accept, and are even threatening court action on racial grounds. Just the mention of the word "racial" and our media and our politicians usually go to water.


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## todster (11 April 2010)

pilots said:


> Now if our Navy can't find a tub that has a top speed of say 10knots, how are they ever going to find a say drug smuggler who has the best boats with a good top speed??? its all a joke.




Did you know that Christmas island is 2600km from Perth and 500km from Jakarta?


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## Calliope (11 April 2010)

todster said:


> Did you know that Christmas island is 2600km from Perth and 500km from Jakarta?




That's a good reason to give the island to Indonesia. However they are smarter than us and would probably knock it back.


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## nioka (11 April 2010)

Calliope said:


> The Naval escort service must be costing us a packet for starters. .




In reality the "Naval escort service" costs nothing as regards the illegals. We need a navy, they need training. What better way for them to get training. It beats "war games".

 Maybe they need more training in the art of deterring the boats and the illegals, forcibly.


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## Happy (11 April 2010)

Calliope said:


> ...The Christmas Island scam should be shut down. If we want migrants we can get legal ones more cheaply.
> 
> The biggest joke of all is that small minority pressure groups and foreigners are trying to dictate to us what "refugees" we should accept, and are even threatening court action on racial grounds. Just the mention of the word "racial" and our media and our politicians usually go to water.





Yes, we are gagged by threat of legal action.

We should get migrants that are honest and do not use illegal methods to jump the queue - those who do, should be banned for life from entering Australia.


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## Julia (11 April 2010)

nioka said:


> Maybe they need more training in the art of deterring the boats and the illegals, forcibly.



They have no choice but to carry out government policy in this regard.


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## Wysiwyg (11 April 2010)

nioka said:


> Maybe they need more training in the art of deterring the boats and the illegals, forcibly.




Yes it is fairly obvious the smugglers, the ones initiating the boat trips, are conning these people out of whatever currency they have. Maybe the home port authorities could be cracking down on this but they probably don't have the resources or desire to do so. It isn't a serious issue for them.


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## bunyip (12 April 2010)

It's interesting to see Rudd applying six month and three month suspensions to the processing of Afghan and Sri Lankan refugees from here on.
I can't see that being much of a deterrent - clearly it's just a PR stunt designed to paint the government in a good light in this election year, and perhaps also it's an attempt to give them a bit of breathing space while they try and think up some solution to the ridiculous mess they've created.

If I was an Afghan or Sri Lankan who was determined to come to Australia, I doubt if the prospect of a three or six month delay in my processing would change my plans about coming.

Rudd has an excellent academic mind - he was dux of his high school on Queensland's Sunshine Coast - but he's living proof that academic brains don't necessarily equate to common sense.
It's a mystery to me why he and his mates dismantled Howard's 'Pacific Solution' policy that was proving very effective in limiting the numbers of illegal boat people. Not only dismantled it, but replaced it with a new policy that virtually laid out the welcome mat to illegal immigrants.

Now Rudd and his cronies are scratching their heads as they try to work out a solution to the mess they've created. 
One solution would be to resurrect Howard's 'Pacific Solution' policy. But doing so would leave Rudd and his mates with even more egg on their faces than they have already.

Meanwhile, the people who have applied through legal channels to come to Australia, get pushed further back in the queue as immigration officials are swamped under the workload created by the flood of illegal immigrants.

Rudd is stumbling along, creating one fiasco after another. He puts on a brave face in his TV interviews, but I'll bet he's asking himself _'What the hell was I thinking when I implemented the changes that have created this immigration mess'!_


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## pilots (12 April 2010)

Did you see last night the Sunday show about the  schools Krudd has built, what a **** up that has turned out to be, a canteen that is a unusable  garage that cost $8000k.


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## trainspotter (12 April 2010)

"Number 42 your time is up ...... please come in number 42" Mr Rudd bleats through the loudspeaker to Indonseian people smugglers as another boatload of immigrants reach our shores. Oh yeah ..... Australian Intelligence (HA HA) suggests that the people smugglers are advising the immigrants to jump on a boat NOW to avoid the deadline in place for Sri Lankans and Afghani's. Await for many more refo's plundering our shores.


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## steptoe88 (12 April 2010)

I dont suppose Kevin has considered any of the previous governments approaches to stopping the queue jumping economic wannabees, as long as he lets them come here who do you imagine these people and their families will vote for? Yes the guys who let them in, so its an open gate in reality, I dont care what they say about getting tough its all just words, and no real actions.

_______________________________________

When all is said and done a lot more will be said than is ever done.


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## noco (12 April 2010)

steptoe88 said:


> I dont suppose Kevin has considered any of the previous governments approaches to stopping the queue jumping economic wannabees, as long as he lets them come here who do you imagine these people and their families will vote for? Yes the guys who let them in, so its an open gate in reality, I dont care what they say about getting tough its all just words, and no real actions.
> 
> _______________________________________
> 
> When all is said and done a lot more will be said than is ever done.




Yes, and the majority of the stupid media keep banging away at the opposition asking them what they would  do? Rudd has created these problems with his own policies. Had he continued with Howard's solution, we would not have the  problem.

Rudd critized the previous Government for having kids behind razor wire and now he is about to do the same.

Watched Peter Van Onselen on Sky news Saturday agenda who keep criticizing and discrediting Tony Abbott and at one stage virtually blamed Abbott for the mess Rudd is in with asylum seekers.

I wrote to Sky news with a strong protest and I hope others did the same.


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## Calliope (12 April 2010)

nioka said:


> In reality the "Naval escort service" costs nothing as regards the illegals. We need a navy, they need training. What better way for them to get training. It beats "war games".
> 
> Maybe they need more training in the art of deterring the boats and the illegals, forcibly.




I suppose the 50 or so additional Federal Police that have been sent to the island also need the training in riot control. The inmates are upset because Rudd has reneged on his fast tracking policy without consulting them.


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## Bolle (12 April 2010)

This makes me so angry.  Is there any way to send them all back, and Krudd along with them?  I've had enough of him to last forever.  And for the love of dog, can we just say enough is enough, no more 'Centrelink Seekers' please.!!!


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## bunyip (12 April 2010)

Bolle said:


> This makes me so angry.  Is there any way to send them all back, and Krudd along with them?  I've had enough of him to last forever.  And for the love of dog, can we just say enough is enough, no more 'Centrelink Seekers' please.!!!




A step in the right direction will be to vote this mug and his ALP mates out of office at the next election.
I wonder if it will happen though - I suspect that a majority of our population are gullible people who can't see through Rudd and the incompetence of his Labor government despite all the stuff ups they've made and continue to make.


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## noco (12 April 2010)

Bolle said:


> This makes me so angry.  Is there any way to send them all back, and Krudd along with them?  I've had enough of him to last forever.  And for the love of dog, can we just say enough is enough, no more 'Centrelink Seekers' please.!!!




I'd personally pay for a one way ticket for KRUDD  to Siberia. But then that might not be far enough away.


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## todster (12 April 2010)

bunyip said:


> A step in the right direction will be to vote this mug and his ALP mates out of office at the next election.
> I wonder if it will happen though - I suspect that a majority of our population are gullible people who can't see through Rudd and the incompetence of his Labor government despite all the stuff ups they've made and continue to make.




Maybe some find the alternative repulsive


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## trainspotter (12 April 2010)

I heard that the Rudd Guvment decision to disallow Afghani's and Sri Lankans is tantamountable to "RACISM" and "DISCRIMINATION". Wait for the lawyers to get hold of this one. Geoffery Robertson would be a likely candidate to take up their cause.


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## Happy (12 April 2010)

trainspotter said:


> I heard that the Rudd Guvment decision to disallow Afghani's and Sri Lankans is tantamountable to "RACISM" and "DISCRIMINATION". *Wait for the lawyers to get hold of this one.* Geoffery Robertson would be a likely candidate to take up their cause.





To make it STRONGER CASE for lawyers some are on hunger strike.

Surely we will have to buckle in because if they don't eat we will be responsible for what might happen.

Happily I am sick of it. 

For me far right wing will be good oucome anyway.
Way things go it might go this way, unfortunately!


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## steptoe88 (15 April 2010)

trainspotter said:


> I heard that the Rudd Guvment decision to disallow Afghani's and Sri Lankans is tantamountable to "RACISM" and "DISCRIMINATION". Wait for the lawyers to get hold of this one. Geoffery Robertson would be a likely candidate to take up their cause.




If we do these things some do gooders pick up on it and were the worst in the developed world, but how many Countries willingly accept what we have to put up with? if they are indeed refugees, then why dont they seek help in indonesia or the many other countries along their journey to our shores? because we are the easy money, the soft touch, the free welfare country, and if we vote right then the Government will keep doling out cash and benefits to us and our large families, if thewy arrive in Indonesia, why isnt the government there asking questions like why are you coming to indonesia? how long will you be staying why dont you have a return ticket?
 any other place asks, stop them in their tracks in indonesia and they cant pay to be smuggled into australia, we pay countries to help us stop the invasion but they must be laughing at us, the poor white trash of Asia who will put up with anyone who wants to sail to our shores, with dumb & dumber politicians who only work to get reelected one election at a time and this is what some fools vote for and put up with.

 I have no problem with people coming to our country if they follow the correct procedure and join the queue.


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## Happy (15 April 2010)

steptoe88 said:


> …
> with dumb & dumber politicians who only work to get reelected one election at a time and this is what some fools vote for and put up with.
> 
> I have no problem with people coming to our country if they follow the correct procedure and join the queue.





With 3 and 6 months moratorium on visas, decision time will be pushed after the election and there will be another 2  ½ years time, to accept ones that are here already and everybody else who’s got the cash to pay smugglers!


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## DVEOUS (15 April 2010)

When the Christmas Island facility reaches 100% occupancy, turn the free loading bastards back home, and hang out the "Sorry, we're full" sign.

I suspect I'm not the only taxpayer who has had a complete gut full of being taken advantage of.

Why not settle in Indonesia, and save the US$3,000 boat fare across?
Malaysia is nice, as is Brunei.
There are many options.

Why Australia?

Because we are a soft touch, and have a history of being taken advantage of.


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## Garpal Gumnut (15 April 2010)

I must admit to feeling some sorrow for the plight of the individual travellers on these boats.

Whether they are "genuine" refugees or not is a moot point, however they are human beings.

The same arguments were used against Jewish people fleeing Hitler's annihilation of a significant percentage of European Jewry prior to the outbreak of the Second World War.

It is Rudd's use of these poor people as pawns in his massaging of initially his soft left base, and latterly of his more hard headed "working families" , that is contemptible, not the flight of the people to a better life.

gg


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## DVEOUS (15 April 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I must admit to feeling some sorrow for the plight of the individual travellers on these boats.



Can some of these refugees stay at your place then?
If you are genuinely sorry, then you will take a family in.
You can accommodate and feed them.


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## Garpal Gumnut (15 April 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I must admit to feeling some sorrow for the plight of the individual travellers on these boats.
> 
> Whether they are "genuine" refugees or not is a moot point, however they are human beings.
> 
> ...






DVEOUS said:


> Can some of these refugees stay at your place then?
> If you are genuinely sorry, then you will take a family in.
> You can accommodate and feed them.




I have had a number of refugees, from Victoria and NSW, stay at my place, even one or two economic migrants from Brisbane, mate.

My point was though, that just as people in North Queensland and Western Australia, who provide most of the earnings for the nation, welcome people from poorer areas, like Brisbane, that does not necessarily make people from Brisbane, less human, even though they may speak bull**** at times, or act or behave differently from workers in those prosperous areas, mate. 

gg


----------



## Happy (15 April 2010)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/04/15/2874183.htm?section=justin

“135 more asylum seekers arrive on Christmas Island
Posted 1 hour 17 minutes ago “


So fresh off the press.

The way it goes, 200 bed extension will last a day or so.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (16 April 2010)

Happy said:


> http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/04/15/2874183.htm?section=justin
> 
> “135 more asylum seekers arrive on Christmas Island
> Posted 1 hour 17 minutes ago “
> ...




The ALP Border Policy has been a complete and utter stuff up, exposing our Northern border to entry by any and all.

gg


----------



## Happy (16 April 2010)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/04/16/2874614.htm?section=justin



> Asylum seekers intercepted near Christmas Island
> 
> By Hayden Cooper, Alex Johnson
> Updated 6 hours 59 minutes ago
> ...





On TV this boat was mentioned too and they allegedly ALL claim to be from Iraq as only visa moratorium is on visa seekers from Sri Lanka and Afghanistan.

Yea, yea


----------



## bunyip (16 April 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> The ALP Border Policy has been a complete and utter stuff up, exposing our Northern border to entry by any and all.
> 
> gg




And our esteemed Prime Minister is too proud and arrogant and stupid to admit it, and too incompetent to make the hard decisions, as Howard did, to put an end to the illegal immigration fiasco that he and his idiotic ALP government caused by dismantling the very effective 'Pacific Solution' introduced by the previous government.

And yet there are still people who will be mug enough to vote for this clown at the next election.


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## DVEOUS (17 April 2010)

Half the problem lies with Indonesia.
Why is it so hard for them to introduce legislation that outlaws people smuggling, with severe penalties for the boat captains and crew?

I'll tell you why.
They don't care.
Indonesia is only a transit stop, and not the final destination... so they do not cop the long-term expense associated with dealing with these refos.

If Aussie taxpayer dollars cannot help but be consumed in all of this, then I would like to see these boats crews be prosecuted and imprisoned in Australian jails for, say, 10-20 years. 

At 60-200 people per boat load, this equates to a minimum of 2 months jail time per human life they are taking advantage of.

I would also like to know what the annual cost of running the Christmas Island detention center is to Aussie tax payers.
Does anyone know this?


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## Julia (17 April 2010)

Interesting question.  I went looking for the answer but failed to find it.
Best I could come up with (and using Christmas Island may be quite different) is this article about costs involved (just under $2000 per person per day) under the Howard Government's offshore programme using Nauru et al.

http://oppenheimer.mcgill.ca/A-Price-Too-High-the-cost-o


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## Calliope (17 April 2010)

Happy said:


> On TV this boat was mentioned too and they allegedly ALL claim to be from Iraq as only visa moratorium is on visa seekers from Sri Lanka and Afghanistan.




Well, they could check their passports;

Sorry... just joking.


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## Garpal Gumnut (18 April 2010)

It must be dreadful to be a refugee and to be demonised by the lack of a place to call your own, I mean a genuine refugee, not just out of no other choice. 

I feel sorry for those in that position.

gg


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## Happy (18 April 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> It must be dreadful to be a refugee and to be demonised by the lack of a place to call your own, I mean a genuine refugee, not just out of no other choice.
> 
> I feel sorry for those in that position.
> 
> gg





Why dreadful?

They know exactly that there is housing, dole, medical assistance for starters and later family reunion. 

This is what they pay for to smugglers!


----------



## So_Cynical (18 April 2010)

Happy said:


> Why dreadful?
> 
> They know exactly that there is housing, dole, medical assistance for starters and later family reunion.
> 
> This is what they pay for to smugglers!




Happy you of course do realise that something like 97% of refuges that come to Australia arrive legitimately...and you also realise that many of them are traumatised and have lost family and are uneducated and don't speak English.

You do realise that...right?


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## newbie trader (18 April 2010)

So_Cynical said:


> Happy you of course do realise that something like 97% of refuges that come to Australia arrive legitimately...and you also realise that many of them are traumatised and have lost family and are uneducated and don't speak English.
> 
> You do realise that...right?




Great point cynical and i'm glad that some people (GG etc) here see the refugees for what they are...OTHER HUMAN BEINGS. It's disturbing to think that people simply think of them as pests and a burden on our economy/way of life. Such backward thinking.


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## Tink (19 April 2010)

newbie trader said:


> Great point cynical and i'm glad that some people (GG etc) here see the refugees for what they are...OTHER HUMAN BEINGS. It's disturbing to think that people simply think of them as pests and a burden on our economy/way of life. Such backward thinking.




Yep good post


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## DVEOUS (19 April 2010)

newbie trader said:


> Great point cynical and i'm glad that some people (GG etc) here see the refugees for what they are...OTHER HUMAN BEINGS. It's disturbing to think that people simply think of them as pests and a burden on our economy/way of life. Such backward thinking.



If it's "backward thinking", then please explain to me why the refos don't just settle in Indonesia?

The answer is: they are fully aware that Australia is a soft touch, and we can easily be taken advantage of.

Australians ARE being taken advantage of.
Obviously you are comfortable with that, whilst others are not.

Consider this;
A refo family could save USD$3,000 on the cost of the boat trip from Indonesia to Australia alone.  (a figure I heard on a TV report recently).
That $3k would go along way to setting themselves up, and the boat captains would not be profiting from hauling human cargo. 
So why don't they just call Indonesia their new home?

As a poster eludes above, very few of them speak any English. Even if they were to learn some whilst in detention, their prospects for getting a job are almost nil.
In other words, they will be on taxpayer funded welfare for their entire life.
No job = increased boredom
Increased boredom = more crime

Look at the ethnic melting pot suburbs of Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane, and you will see increased crime rates and all sorts of flow-on effects.

It's also pretty naive to think all of this isn't costing Aussie taxpayer big dollars.
Why are there insufficient funds to fix our own health system once and for all?
Why do we have to pay for toll roads just to drive around our own cities?
Why isn't there more money to build more roads?
Why isn't there more money available to construct more dams?


Next time you are waiting in an hospital ER room for 7-8 hours to be treated, think back to how the extra $45 million dollars spent (on the Christmas Island facility in 2009-2010 alone) could have been spent on upgrading your local hospital.

If you think this is backward thinking, you might want to take your rose coloured glasses off, and consider the bigger, longer term picture.

There is nothing wrong with skilled migration, after all that brings us new cultures to sample in the way of restaurants, etc, but it is time to stop others taking advantage of Australians.


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## pilots (19 April 2010)

Dveous, your post has hit the nail on the head, I think when Krudd finds out what 99% of the voters think of the boat people he will do a complete back flip. Yes we can take refugees, but they ONLY come past all the proper channels.


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## DVEOUS (19 April 2010)

This article is worth a read;

http://www.smh.com.au/national/crammed-christmas-island-centre-to-cost-extra-45m-20091202-k6f8.html


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## steptoe88 (19 April 2010)

DVEOUS said:


> If it's "backward thinking", then please explain to me why the refos don't just settle in Indonesia?
> 
> The answer is: they are fully aware that Australia is a soft touch, and we can easily be taken advantage of.
> 
> ...




I'm sure that the majoerity of Australians care about human beings, howver they are not impressed by greedy queue jumping economic refugees, who just want to leech on our social security system, bring in countless relatives on the family reunion programme who also leech our system, it's time to stop this and if it means going back to the pacific solution, then lets get started, once these people get wind of it happening, they will stop trying, and hey it just hit me, while the previous pacific solution was in place, how deafening were the press reports of the people of these places, being slaughtered? persecuted and treated inhumanely? hmmm? I cant remeber one instance, if we would be so bad to refuse entry, then wouldnt we just be joining all those other countries who do the same? how many are taken in in Japan? north Korea? alaska? iceland? russia?china? oh hang on we never hear about boat people trying to get in there, whynot? climate not good? politics no good? welfare no good? lifestylr no good? time to look at what works, has worked in the past and will solve this crisis and yes, it is a crisis,


----------



## Mofra (19 April 2010)

DVEOUS said:


> Half the problem lies with Indonesia.
> Why is it so hard for them to introduce legislation that outlaws people smuggling, with severe penalties for the boat captains and crew?



Simple - the organisers are never caught. Most of the people Australia catches & prosecutes are the boat crews who have turned from fishing to people smuggling due to dwindling catches and poorer returns.

It's the equivalent to fighting the drug smuggling trade by incarcerating users & the small time operators who sell to them, and not pursuing those higher up the chain.


----------



## Mofra (19 April 2010)

pilots said:


> Dveous, your post has hit the nail on the head, I think when Krudd finds out what 99% of the voters think of the boat people he will do a complete back flip. Yes we can take refugees, but they ONLY come past all the proper channels.



Actually, it makes little difference if they come here legally or not. If like 90% of illegal arrivals they arrive by plane nobody bats an eyelid. It is the politicised nature of arrivals by boat that the opposition has successfully used time & time again as a political weapon.

The lack of cooperation & coordination in stamping out the organisation in Indonesia is deplorable - Rudd had taken a preacy like attitude towards Indon relations earlier in his tenure and this had a far greater impact on the number of people arriving in Australian waters by boat than any domestic policy has.

Every interview with a prospective asylum seeker in Indonesia, Sri Lanka, Afghanistan, etc that has been released since the crackdown has noted one consistency - the new position provides no deterrant. Only stopping the larger operators on Indon soil will reduce the numbers.


----------



## Calliope (19 April 2010)

The illegals on Xmas island are complaining about overcrowding. They must be a bit thick not to realise that it's overcrowded because they turned up uninvited.

It's like a gatecrasher at a party complaining because there is not enough grog.

Mofra, I don't know how many times you need to be told, but the people who arrive by plane are not illegals entrants. They have visas. Those who overstay their visas are here illegally. 

The blame for not rounding these people up and sending them back rests squarely with the lax enforcement of our immigration laws by the Rudd bureaucracy. It costs $80,000 to process each illegal on Xmas island. I am sure they could nab each overstayer for a fraction of that... especially if they paid a bounty on each dobbed in.


----------



## bunyip (19 April 2010)

Mofra said:


> Every interview with a prospective asylum seeker in Indonesia, Sri Lanka, Afghanistan, etc that has been released since the crackdown has noted one consistency - the new position provides no deterrant. Only stopping the larger operators on Indon soil will reduce the numbers.




How about going back to Howard's 'Pacific Solution' - would that reduce the numbers?

It was a very effective solution before Rudd dismantled it, there's no reason why it couldn't be an effective solution again if he reinstated it. Not that Rudd is likely to do so - it would leave him with too much egg on his face if he went back to the strategy he threw out.
Mind you, the fool has plenty of egg on his face already as a result of his appalling incompetence in dealing with the problem of these illegal boat people.

This ALP government has made incompetence into an art form. Rudd himself virtually admitted it by saying recently '_We're taking a whacking in the polls and frankly, we deserve a whacking'_.


----------



## Happy (19 April 2010)

So_Cynical said:


> Happy you of course do realise that something like 97% of refuges that come to Australia arrive legitimately...and you also realise that many of them are traumatised and have lost family and are uneducated and don't speak English.
> 
> You do realise that...right?





Many speak English, but if they are uneducated and don’t speak English, they could spend money paid to smugglers on English language course while waiting in orderly fashion for Australia to assess and process their application.

Engaging in transaction with smuggler is nothing else but engaging in corrupt activity and this alone should be greeted with lifetime ban for immigration to Australia.


----------



## Lukas (19 April 2010)

steptoe88 said:


> I'm sure that the majoerity of Australians care about human beings, howver they are not impressed by greedy queue jumping economic refugees, who just want to leech on our social security system, bring in countless relatives on the family reunion programme who also leech our system, it's time to stop this and if it means going back to the pacific solution, then lets get started, once these people get wind of it happening, they will stop trying, and hey it just hit me, while the previous pacific solution was in place, how deafening were the press reports of the people of these places, being slaughtered? persecuted and treated inhumanely? hmmm? I cant remeber one instance, if we would be so bad to refuse entry, then wouldnt we just be joining all those other countries who do the same? how many are taken in in Japan? north Korea? alaska? iceland? russia?china? oh hang on we never hear about boat people trying to get in there, whynot? climate not good? politics no good? welfare no good? lifestylr no good? time to look at what works, has worked in the past and will solve this crisis and yes, it is a crisis,




Crisis??LOL
"leech on our social security system"Evidence please and no, don't try to source from TT or ACA. Credible evidence thanks..


----------



## Chris45 (19 April 2010)

Ch 7 news on Friday, Chris Reason reported on an interview he had with an Iraqi goodlife seeker on Christmas Island who had *flown* to Indonesia then *paid* for his boat trip to Ashmore reef. Amongst other things, the Iraqi complained of not enough TVs, not enough computers and his daily *free* 10 minute phone call to anywhere in the world was not long enough. Incredible!!!

I can just imagine him fronting Centrelink, _"You mean to tell me that I've paid all of this money to get here and you're only going to give me $460 a fortnight???"_


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## Julia (19 April 2010)

Chris, such an attitude is fostered by some of our refugee supporters.
One of them on ABC Radio today, commenting on the planned re-opening of an old detention centre (I think Curtin, in the Pilbara?) said, 'well, the houses there are quite nice, most are four bedrooms, but they will need to add basketball courts, and they should have a gym, at the very least."

While we have homeless Australians, many because they can't get proper treatment for their mental illness, I'm damned if I want to see my tax dollars building a gym for detainees.

At the same time, I just can't begin to imagine how distorted my thinking and moral sense would become if my homeland had been torn up by bombs and suicide bombers, my family killed or tortured, and any sense of security I'd briefly had completely destroyed.
Pretty easy for us to sit in our comfortable homes and pass judgement, I guess.


----------



## newbie trader (19 April 2010)

Julia said:


> ...While we have homeless Australians, many because they can't get proper treatment for their mental illness...
> 
> Pretty easy for us to sit in our comfortable homes and pass judgement, I guess....




As always Julia couldn't agree more about the treatment of the homeless.

My family have worked with some refugees over the years, one woman had her young son with her and was sent here by her husband who could not afford to get over here. Around 6 months after she got here she recieved news that her husband had been executed/murdered. What's funny is some of the above comments have mentioned that these people have no english and cause crime etc, however, this woman along with some others that I have personally met have better english than a contract law lecturer I had today at uni, funny the stereotypes that are thrown around. I nor YOU nor ANYONE else posting here can comprehend what some of these people have been through and it is very easy as you said for us to sit here and criticise and pass judgement.


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## steptoe88 (20 April 2010)

Lukas said:


> Crisis??LOL
> "leech on our social security system"Evidence please and no, don't try to source from TT or ACA. Credible evidence thanks..




so tt and aca are just liars? they have absolutely no creditability?
 i have to only use the sources you determine credible? theres been plenty of eveidence that people are using our good natured help and abusing our hospitality, and i dont think its just me who thinks this way, look at todays polls the goverment is poling in the 20's and the opositon is polling in the 40's, people are fed up with these back door opportunists, there are plenty of genuine poor refugees waiting their turn in the queues, why should these people just because they have the fare to indonesia and enough to pay a people smuggler, be given priority?
 i have no problem with people been given help but in turn, not just someone who wont wait his/her turn,


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## Calliope (20 April 2010)

Julia said:


> At the same time, I just can't begin to imagine how distorted my thinking and moral sense would become if my homeland had been torn up by bombs and suicide bombers, my family killed or tortured, and any sense of security I'd briefly had completely destroyed.
> Pretty easy for us to sit in our comfortable homes and pass judgement, I guess.




But these are not the people turning up at Christmasmas island.  They do not have the means. They have no alternative but to try to reach the nearest safe haven and wait in line.


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## Sdajii (20 April 2010)

steptoe88 said:


> so tt and aca are just liars? they have absolutely no creditability?




Are there people too stupid to realise this? Surely not. Everyone realises they're comedy shows, not any form of news or informative progam, don't they?


----------



## Mofra (20 April 2010)

Calliope said:


> Mofra, I don't know how many times you need to be told, but the people who arrive by plane are not illegals entrants. They have visas. Those who overstay their visas are here illegally.



They're still all applying for the same temporary exemption Visas!

It's amazing how people get so emotive about the method of arrival. Asylum seekers are asylum seekers.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/822830/plane-people-eclipse-illegal-boat-arrivals



> "Because [boat] people arrive without a valid visa it's easier for them to be portrayed as somehow doing something wrong," former Democrats leader Andrew Bartlett, now a research fellow at ANU, said.
> 
> "You could just as easily say that people who come here on a tourist or student visa with the intention of claiming asylum once they get here, while still legitimate, are claiming a visa partly under false pretences."






Calliope said:


> The blame for not rounding these people up and sending them back rests squarely with the lax enforcement of our immigration laws by the Rudd bureaucracy. It costs $80,000 to process each illegal on Xmas island. I am sure they could nab each overstayer for a fraction of that... especially if they paid a bounty on each dobbed in.



The proportion of asylum seekers who are granted asylum (the cream of the crop in many cases) tend to pay more than $80,000 over their tax-lifetime once granted asylum.

If this is to be a purely an economic argument, there are far greater areas of wasted government spending.


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## Mofra (20 April 2010)

Julia said:


> While we have homeless Australians, many because they can't get proper treatment for their mental illness, I'm damned if I want to see my tax dollars building a gym for detainees.
> 
> At the same time, I just can't begin to imagine how distorted my thinking and moral sense would become if my homeland had been torn up by bombs and suicide bombers, my family killed or tortured, and any sense of security I'd briefly had completely destroyed.
> Pretty easy for us to sit in our comfortable homes and pass judgement, I guess.



Julia, well summed up. I don't like the idea of my tax dollars being used for detention as there are certainly a mix of unsavoury characters amongst those seeking asylum, however hearing the voices in interviews there _are_ many people amongst the seekers who have a greater work ethic than the average Australian and are likely to repay the investment in processing with ongoign tax dollars in spades.
Interesting that the "dark skinned" bludger/gov. benefits seeker myth still gets exposed by people who have no experience with the issue.


----------



## Mofra (20 April 2010)

Sdajii said:


> Are there people too stupid to realise this? Surely not. Everyone realises they're comedy shows, not any form of news or informative progam, don't they?



Nobody ever went broke by underestimating the public


----------



## Calliope (20 April 2010)

Mofra said:


> It's amazing how people get so emotive about the method of arrival. Asylum seekers are asylum seekers.




I think the people you refer to just don't like illegal entry. Those who overstay their visas are usually not asylum seekers.  They are not fleeing tyranny. They are usually looking for a better job than they had at home, or have found a girlfriend or are just having a good time.


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## newbie trader (20 April 2010)

Mofra said:


> Interesting that the "dark skinned" bludger/gov. benefits seeker myth still gets exposed by people who have no experience with the issue.




It's what the vast majority of Australians believe I think sadly. Media outlets such as ACA and TT and the courier mail etc only present one side of the story and are very selective of what they show. I go to uni with one of the guys whose family run TT or something along the lines and its purely an entertainment show or they wouldn't get the ratings. What they do present is more often than not manipulated and hence people who use TT and ACA as their source are just their 'worker bees' spreading the word of ACA/TT. Less than 10% of assylum seekers come by boat and I think the brits are the country which have the most people living off our tax payers money.


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## trainspotter (20 April 2010)

THE overflow of asylum seekers on Christmas Island to the mainland is scheduled to continue today, with the transfer of up to 120 men to Darwin. 

The Department of Immigration and Citizenship sent 184 asylum-seekers to Darwin and Port Augusta yesterday on two charter jets.

*Last night Christmas Island remained over its capacity of 2040, with 2208 people in detention*.

Among them was a boatload of 30 people and four crew delivered to Flying Fish Cove yesterday morning. There were 28 Iranians, one Burmese and one Afghan on board.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/pol...and-port-augusta/story-e6frgczf-1225855713333   ......... for the full details.


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## Calliope (20 April 2010)

newbie trader said:


> Less than 10% of assylum seekers come by boat and I think the brits are the country which have the most people living off our tax payers money.




Neither the boat people nor the visa overstayers are asylum seekers. Asylum from what? 

Genuine asylum seekers have neither the means nor the opportunity to buy a passage to the country of their choice. The only avenue open to asylum seekers  is to try to escape from from persecution to the nearest country where persecution if hopefully less. Then they join the queue for resettlement in another country.

The Labor government started calling illegals asylum seekers to placate the support groups. 

Perhaps you could provide some details of your allegation against the "brits".


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## Chris45 (20 April 2010)

Julia, I certainly agree with you about looking after our own first. It saddens me when I hear reports about our poor having to resort to extreme measures like pulling their own teeth out with pliers because they can’t afford to see a dentist, etc.

These ‘asylum seekers’ should be sent home to work towards building better societies in their homelands, rather than just fleeing them to seek the good life elsewhere. They need to rethink their attitudes and beliefs so they can integrate back into their communities and learn to live peacefully and cooperatively with each other.

And, yes, we need to reduce the ‘pull factors’ that are drawing them to our shores! Four bedroom houses with basketball courts and gyms??? I suppose they’re all air conditioned. Do they also have Jacuzzis and Olympic swimming pools as well?


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## todster (20 April 2010)

Curtain is a old airforce base south of Derby in some of the harshest country in Oz.
Its in the Kimberleys from memory and for the next few months will be ok building up to winter but come summer even with aircon it can send you bananas


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## newbie trader (20 April 2010)

Chris45 said:


> Julia, I certainly agree with you about looking after our own first. It saddens me when I hear reports about our poor having to resort to extreme measures like pulling their own teeth out with pliers because they can’t afford to see a dentist, etc.




Chris if you feel so strongly about it there are programs out there that help the homeless. They would be very grateful if you donated your own time or money or preferably both. No country doesn't have social problems but our government doesn't seem to want to help the homeless whom after all are Australian citizens. You'll hear many people going on about how terrible it all is but few who actually do anything to help.


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## Julia (20 April 2010)

Calliope said:


> But these are not the people turning up at Christmasmas island.  They do not have the means. They have no alternative but to try to reach the nearest safe haven and wait in line.



How can you be so sure about that, Calliope?
Say we were invaded here in Oz, bombs dropped on us, much of our family killed, our own lives threatened.  We do, however, in our devastation have some funds saved.  Why wouldn't we use these to pay for passage out of danger?

I've plenty of times joined in the chorus of insisting people should take their place in line to come to Australia, and objectively I still feel that way.

But at the same time, I'm also aware of how my apparent values could change if I were in fear of my life, and thought a few thousand bucks could buy me safety and a future.


----------



## doctorj (20 April 2010)

Julia said:


> But at the same time, I'm also aware of how my apparent values could change if I were in fear of my life, and thought a few thousand bucks could buy me safety and a future.



Exactly.  And I'm sure you're not alone in thinking this way.  Unless circumstances change it's "not our problem" - why should we care anyway?  
THEY won't integrate, THEY won't get jobs, THEY will consume our had earned tax dollar and THEY will force their values on us.  THEY can go somewhere else.  Australia is for the Australians.


----------



## Calliope (20 April 2010)

Julia said:


> Say we were invaded here in Oz, bombs dropped on us, much of our family killed, our own lives threatened.  We do, however, in our devastation have some funds saved.  Why wouldn't we use these to pay for passage out of danger?




If I were to put this question to an illegal immigrant I think his answer would go something like this;



> Of course. Self preservation is the name of the game and if we have money to buy preferential treatment over the less fortunate let us grasp it with both hands. And if our money encourages people smugglers to start an industry just to cater for our needs their initiative should be applauded.
> 
> We and they have a symbiotic relationship and I am sick and tired of the warm and fuzzy leftists, who welcome us with open arms, denigrating these wonderful people as criminals. After all if they are criminals we are worse because without our patronage they wouldn't exist, in the same way as there would be no cocaine traffic without the patronage of the well to do in your society.
> 
> Because you love us and pamper us and spare no expense to make us happy, and overlook our criminal entry, I am loathe to call you hypocrites but I have a feeling that you are only doing it to make you feel good and virtuous.


----------



## Mofra (21 April 2010)

Chris45 said:


> These ‘asylum seekers’ should be sent home to work towards building better societies in their homelands, rather than just fleeing them to seek the good life elsewhere. They need to rethink their attitudes and beliefs so they can integrate back into their communities and learn to live peacefully and cooperatively with each other.



Now, if someone in 1941 had said:



> These *Jews* should be sent home to work towards building better societies in their homelands, rather than just fleeing them to seek the good life elsewhere. They need to rethink their attitudes and beliefs so they can integrate back into their communities and learn to live peacefully and cooperatively with each other.



How would history judge that person?

There are some people amongst the asylum seekers who have genuine cause to fear retribution in their homeland. Not all, which necessitates proper processing for all applications for protection Visas (regardless of method of entry), but some.


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## Mofra (21 April 2010)

Calliope said:


> If I were to put this question to an illegal immigrant I think his answer would go something like this;



You clearly haven't met many, if any.

Those I've met simply want to work, provide for their family, and live a normal life - in safety.


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## Calliope (21 April 2010)

Mofra said:


> Those I've met simply want to work, provide for their family, and live a normal life - in safety.




Of course. They are the privileged few.

It is strange that people of your ilk  bleeding hearts) support vast sums of money being poured into aiding and abetting this privileged few, whilst ignoring the vast majority in their homelands who cannot afford to pay for this silver service.

Or is it your attitude,"Stiff cheddar...that's the way the cookie crumbles"?


----------



## Chris45 (21 April 2010)

Mofra said:


> There are some people amongst the asylum seekers who have genuine cause to fear retribution in their homeland.



Yes, there probably are, and I support the policy of granting them *temporary* protection until they can safely return home, or seek temporary protection elsewhere, and then apply for migration in the proper manner.

The ones I object to are the opportunistic goodlife seekers with squatter mentalities who seem to think that they are entitled to come here and take up residence without question. I get the impression that these are now the majority. I can just imagine the pressure the DIMA officers must now be under to clear the growing backlog of asylum claims. “You say someone scowled at you? OK, residency granted.”

If all of our asylum seeker advocates were required to put up sizeable bonds and be held personally responsible for the support and maintenance of the people they promote, similar to when we invite a foreign friend to come and visit, I wonder how long they’d last.


----------



## Julia (21 April 2010)

Mofra said:


> There are some people amongst the asylum seekers who have genuine cause to fear retribution in their homeland. Not all, which necessitates proper processing for all applications for protection Visas (regardless of method of entry), but some.






Calliope said:


> Of course. They are the privileged few.
> 
> It is strange that people of your ilk  bleeding hearts) support vast sums of money being poured into aiding and abetting this privileged few, whilst ignoring the vast majority in their homelands who cannot afford to pay for this silver service.



Calliope, re-read Mofra's statement above where he underlines the need for proper processing of visas.  That's hardly the approach of the bleeding heart.


----------



## Calliope (21 April 2010)

Julia said:


> Calliope, re-read Mofra's statement above where he underlines the need for proper processing of visas.  That's hardly the approach of the bleeding heart.




Maybe. But I would hope that even a bleeding heart would want to weed out the criminals and terrorists. Those who fear retribution at home often fall into this category. Australia did not categorise the Tamil Tigers as terrorists. Most other western countries did.


----------



## Chris45 (21 April 2010)

Mofra said:


> Now, if someone in 1941 had said: ...



I think in 1941 the Jews were probably happy to be given asylum by anyone who offered it and they didn’t pick and choose. And to their full credit they subsequently returned to their homeland, Israel, and built an excellent society.

Why don’t the Tamil ‘asylum seekers’ seek refuge in Tamil Nadu? It's a lot closer, and would be cheaper to get to, than Australia, and they are culturally similar.

Don't forget the atrocities committed by the Tamil Tigers, suicide bombings, conscripting children etc, in their quest for independence.


----------



## trainspotter (21 April 2010)

Just a thought .... Sri Lanka to Ashmore Reef is 4823.6 kms as the crow flies BUT Andaman & Nicobar Islands are only 1396.2 kms to Sri Lanka. Populated by Anglo Indian and Burmese cross cultures and is owned by India.

The Andaman & Nicobar Islands are a veritable Garden of Eden and a naturalist's heaven. The clean environment, roads, greenery as well as unpolluted fresh air attract all nature lovers. The tropical rain forests and waters of Bay of Bengal are the home of a vast collection of plant, animal and marine life. Topographically the islands are hilly in places fringed with coconut palm, covered with tropical jungle and interspersed with flat stretches of crescent shaped beaches. Adventure tourism like trekking, Island camping, snorkeling, SCUBA diving etc. and other water sports are the real attractions. A marvelous mix of nature's most precious delights, the Andaman & Nicobar Islands are a once in a lifetime holiday experience. 

http://tourism.andaman.nic.in/touristspot.htm

Bugger this Australia place ........ I wanna go there !


----------



## steptoe88 (21 April 2010)

trainspotter said:


> Just a thought .... Sri Lanka to Ashmore Reef is 4823.6 kms as the crow flies BUT Andaman & Nicobar Islands are only 1396.2 kms to Sri Lanka. Populated by Anglo Indian and Burmese cross cultures and is owned by India.
> 
> The Andaman & Nicobar Islands are a veritable Garden of Eden and a naturalist's heaven. The clean environment, roads, greenery as well as unpolluted fresh air attract all nature lovers. The tropical rain forests and waters of Bay of Bengal are the home of a vast collection of plant, animal and marine life. Topographically the islands are hilly in places fringed with coconut palm, covered with tropical jungle and interspersed with flat stretches of crescent shaped beaches. Adventure tourism like trekking, Island camping, snorkeling, SCUBA diving etc. and other water sports are the real attractions. A marvelous mix of nature's most precious delights, the Andaman & Nicobar Islands are a once in a lifetime holiday experience.
> 
> ...






This is the point, why are they so eager to get to us when there are several paradises along the journey, could it be that its the welfare and other handouts that are on offer that is the big magnet? otherwise who wouldnt stop and take refuge in the first safe haven found?


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## Mofra (21 April 2010)

Chris45 said:


> Why don’t the Tamil ‘asylum seekers’ seek refuge in Tamil Nadu? It's a lot closer, and would be cheaper to get to, than Australia, and they are culturally similar.



Do you have any evidence that suggests the majority don't? It's not like 100% of all the world's displaced people come to Australia.

In any case, the crux of the matter has again been lost; you can't stop a running tap by putting a bigger bucket under it, or mistreating the water that collects in it. 

Only by negotiating properly with Indonesia will _real progress_ be made to stamp out people smuggling - anything that happens within Australian waters makes little difference to those already in the pipeline, or planning a journey. Surely people can recognise that Howard's greater successes in slowing the arrival rate came from agreements with our Northern neighbours as opposed to the PR exercise referred to as the "Pacific Solution"?


----------



## Chris45 (21 April 2010)

Mofra said:


> In any case, the crux of the matter has again been lost; you can't stop a running tap by putting a bigger bucket under it, or mistreating the water that collects in it.



With reference to your running tap analogy, a temporary fix would be to bung up the outlet (ie, turn the boats back, eliminate the pull-factors, etc) and then properly fix the cause of the leak (over-population, desires for separatism, etc).

Asylum seekers are now a world wide problem caused primarily by uncontrolled population growth and too many mouths demanding to be fed. Just letting them overflow to other countries is not the solution. If your water tank is overflowing, reduce the input.

I agree that increasing pressure (negotiation, whatever) needs to be put on conduit countries like Indonesia to accept responsibility for their part of the problem and, if they object to being continually hectored and harangued, then they need to pull their fingers out and do something.

China has managed to bring its population growth under control – no reason why everyone else can’t do the same. Not a pretty solution, but necessary.

Just discovered this article which answers a lot of questions:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...ing-tales-of-woe/story-e6frg6zo-1225850659899


----------



## Calliope (21 April 2010)

Chris45 said:


> Just discovered this article which answers a lot of questions:
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...ing-tales-of-woe/story-e6frg6zo-1225850659899




There's nothing that tugs at the heartstrings of a bleeding heart more than an illegal turning up on our doorstep and claiming asylum because he is fleeing persecution, although most of them find it safe enough to leave their families behind.

They are coming here for one reason only...we are a welfare state. They will go through or around safe haven (but poor) countries to get here.


----------



## Mofra (22 April 2010)

Calliope said:


> They are coming here for one reason only...we are a welfare state. They will go through or around safe haven (but poor) countries to get here.



Again, your xenophobic speculation with no factual basis is incorrect.

Until a temporary protection visa is granted, Dole/Austudy/family benefits are NOT available.

The prospect of *work* and a safe environment are the primary lure to every single immigrant/asylum seeker I've met, not the desire to bludge off the government (that would be _Australians_ who are collecting the dole).


----------



## Mofra (22 April 2010)

Chris45 said:


> With reference to your running tap analogy, a temporary fix would be to bung up the outlet (ie, turn the boats back, eliminate the pull-factors, etc) and then properly fix the cause of the leak (over-population, desires for separatism, etc).
> 
> Asylum seekers are now a world wide problem caused primarily by uncontrolled population growth and too many mouths demanding to be fed. Just letting them overflow to other countries is not the solution. If your water tank is overflowing, reduce the input.



Good response, however the "bunging the tap" ideology tends not to agree with the responses of people preparing to come to Australia (they will still take their chance). 

The second paragraph there I totally agree with; FWIW the most effective form of population control (unless you are going to decree a single child policy like China) is to boost the education opportunities for women. There is a noted drop in birth rates when comparing differing societies who have different education levels for the female population. This of course is a longer term solution - although the increase in the use of biofuels, increasing the cost of the world's food supply, may have the unfortunate consequence of causing mass starvation in many of the world's poorest nations anyway.



Chris45 said:


> I agree that increasing pressure (negotiation, whatever) needs to be put on conduit countries like Indonesia to accept responsibility for their part of the problem and, if they object to being continually hectored and harangued, then they need to pull their fingers out and do something.



For all the supposed pandering to outer suburban xenophobes, Howard's government was actually quite effective when it came to negotiating with our closest regional neighbours and there was some progress made in prosecuting some of the people smugglers higher up the chain.
Rudd's prosecutions are by and large the end of the chain - poor fishermen who barely understand the reasons they are incarcerated. 

As far as I'm concerned the problem of people smuggling cannot be solved without a coordinated effort of a group of nations (Australia by itself will solve nothing).


----------



## Calliope (22 April 2010)

Mofra said:


> Again, your xenophobic speculation with no factual basis is incorrect.
> 
> Until a temporary protection visa is granted, Dole/Austudy/family benefits are NOT available.
> 
> The prospect of *work* and a safe environment are the primary lure to every single immigrant/asylum seeker I've met, not the desire to bludge off the government (that would be _Australians_ who are collecting the dole).




Of course you would say that. You are just following the support group, advocacy, bleeding heart script. Do you think all people who can take a dispassionate view ( as opposed to your emotional view) of this problem are Xenophobes? 

Your accusation with no factual basis is incorrect. It is also nasty.


----------



## Chris45 (22 April 2010)

Sergei DeSilva-Ranasinghe was born in Sri Lanka and migrated to Australia as a young lad and is currently writing his masters thesis, at Curtin University, on the evolution of Australia's defence policy in the Indian Ocean. What he says about the current influx of Tamil asylum seekers makes sense. Here’s an extract:



> So, why does Australia see a growing number of Sri Lankan Tamil asylum-seekers? It appears that Australia's relative proximity as the closest Western country, high living standards and *perceptions of sympathetic treatment* have been a significant pull factor in attracting them. Australia is also the nearest country that is a signatory to the UN Refugee Convention.
> 
> Sri Lankan Tamil asylum-seekers who come to Australia have deliberately avoided the option of seeking asylum in the Indian state of Tamil Nadu, only a two-hour boat ride away from Sri Lanka. Although India is not a signatory to the convention, it has long been hospitable to Tamil asylum-seekers from Sri Lanka.
> 
> ...



What the hell is wrong with our useless Canberra politicians that the LTTE, outlawed in 31 other countries, is not a proscribed terrorist organization here???

According to the FBI: "(The LTTE) perfected the use of suicide bombers, invented the suicide belt, pioneered the use of women in suicide attacks, murdered some 4000 people in the past two years alone and assassinated two world leaders (former Indian prime minister Rajiv Gandhi and Sri Lankan president Ranasinghe Premadasa), the only terrorist organisation to do so."

I suppose that pathetic Alexander Downer was too busy sipping his Chardonnay and prancing around in his mesh stockings to address the LTTE issue but Stephen Smith needs to step up and act immediately to eliminate this unbelievably stupid pull factor.


----------



## Mofra (23 April 2010)

Calliope said:


> Of course you would say that. You are just following the support group, advocacy, bleeding heart script. Do you think all people who can take a dispassionate view ( as opposed to your emotional view) of this problem are Xenophobes?



No, the only script followed here is your very-far right wing "all nonwhites are bad, m'kay" bleating with racial stereotypes mattered throughout your posts. 

I doubt your generalised version of "bleeding hearts" would advocate slowing/stopping the tide, praising Howard's past efforts and solving the problem without resorting to an open door policy, but then again you have displayed a tendancy tend to skim, rather than read, anything that disagree with your "Andrew Bolt is soft" view of a situation.

Dispassionate view? You wouldn't recognise one - yours certainly isn't. To be honest, I am only reading your repsonses for comedic value, as otherwise they are simply a waste of bandwidth.


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## Calliope (23 April 2010)

Mofra said:


> No, the only script followed here is your very-far right wing "all nonwhites are bad, m'kay" bleating with racial stereotypes mattered throughout your posts.




Whartever happened to the "nice" Mofra?

You shouldn't make ridiculous allegations that you can't support. Your abuse has racial overtones.



> I doubt your generalised version of "bleeding hearts" would advocate slowing/stopping the tide, praising Howard's past efforts and solving the problem without resorting to an open door policy, but then again you have displayed a tendancy tend to skim, rather than read, anything that disagree with your "Andrew Bolt is soft" view of a situation.




What a lot of nonsense. Show me where I have ever praised Howard's efforts or even mentioned Howard in this context.



> Dispassionate view? You wouldn't recognise one - yours certainly isn't. To be honest, I am only reading your repsonses for comedic value, as otherwise they are simply a waste of bandwidth.




All I have done is criticise your gullibility and tunnel vision. Your parting thrust also indicates childish immaturity...there is little honesty in you postings; just biased advocacy.


----------



## Happy (23 April 2010)

Back on subject, looks we’ve got another one.

Must be business or first class as only 9 passengers and 3 crew. 



http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/04/23/2881070.htm?section=justin



> ASYLUM SEEKERS STOPPED NEAR ASHMORE ISLANDS
> 
> A boat carrying asylum seekers has been stopped in waters north-west of Australia.
> …


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## Mofra (23 April 2010)

Calliope said:


> Whartever happened to the "nice" Mofra?



I'm nice to everyone who deserves it and most of those who don't. Treating people the way they treat you after a while tends to work best for me.



Calliope said:


> You shouldn't make ridiculous allegations that you can't support. Your abuse has racial overtones.



The only racial overtones on this thread thus far... are yours.

If you can find one convicted terrorist that has arrived in Australia by boat I'll be very surprised (you do remember your accusations don't you?)



Calliope said:


> What a lot of nonsense. Show me where I have ever praised Howard's efforts or even mentioned Howard in this context



You accuse me of being a bleeding heart left winger, yet I've praised some of Howard's efforts on this thread. Not your average dread-locked Green Left Weekly knid of behavior is it?
Try to connect the dots.



Calliope said:


> All I have done is criticise your gullibility and tunnel vision. Your parting thrust also indicates childish immaturity...there is little honesty in you postings; just biased advocacy.



Tunnel vision is your blind devotion to thinking the issue is simply black and white, and painting all those who disagree as "bleeding heart lefties".

Advocacy for a balanced approach in stamping out the problem and stating the problem is a complex one obviously doesn't fit in with your black and white view of the world. I can accept that, as long as you can accept that some people have a little more depth in their understanding of the complexity of certain issues.


----------



## Mofra (23 April 2010)

Happy said:


> Must be business or first class as only 9 passengers and 3 crew.



The "lost fisherman" excuse? 

I know quite a few on patrollies who used to hear that one a bit on the smaller boats.


----------



## Calliope (23 April 2010)

Mofra said:


> The only racial overtones on this thread thus far... are yours.
> 
> If you can find one convicted terrorist that has arrived in Australia by boat I'll be very surprised (you do remember your accusations don't you?)




Reverse racism is your stock in trade.

What I said was;



> I would hope that even a bleeding heart would want to weed out the criminals and terrorists.




Obviously I was wrong. You are in denial. You should stop inventing things that you wish I had said in order to denigrate me.


----------



## bunyip (23 April 2010)

Mofra said:


> Surely people can recognise that Howard's greater successes in slowing the arrival rate came from agreements with our Northern neighbours as opposed to the PR exercise referred to as the "Pacific Solution"?




Well whatever Howard did to stop the invasion of boat people, I wish Rudd would show enough intelligence and common sense to do the same. 

These illegals are costing us an absolute fortune. There are dozens of ways in which that money could be better spent.
Anyone whose worked with disadvantaged people, as I have, will be aware that the organisations who help them are woefully under-funded.
If we want to help people less fortunate than ourselves, there's unlimited scope for doing so right here in Australia. All it needs is a redirection of the money that's currently being frittered away on illegal immigrants.

Call it racist or inhumane or callous or whatever, but our first responsibility is to our own country and our own citizens, not to foreigners who come here illegally.


----------



## noco (23 April 2010)

Another boat load!!!!!!!!!  Shhhhhhhhhhh don't say it too loud.

But then again, the people of Derby are rubbing their hands together for its raining money from the good Lord Kevvie in heaven.


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## Chris45 (23 April 2010)

bunyip said:


> These illegals are costing us an absolute fortune.



I agree with your comments but I bet they're considering this as just another way of helicoptering money into the economy.


----------



## Calliope (23 April 2010)

bunyip said:


> Call it racist or inhumane or callous or whatever, but our first responsibility is to our own country and our own citizens, not to foreigners who come here illegally.




Mofra obviously has double standards. On one hand he claims he has praised Howard's efforts to keep the illegals out.

On the other hand he does everything in his power to attract them. He will even stoop to branding white Australians who object to this encouragement of illegal aliens as racists.

I don't think native Australians would be too happy about their preferential treatment either, at a cost  of around $85,000 per head before they even set foot in Australia. Their total funding is never divulged, but I'm sure it would be enough for an honest builder to erect a nice dwelling for a homeless Australian.


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## drsmith (23 April 2010)

This is not an issue of race but rather one of being able to effectively represent ourselves on the international stage and specifically how we defend our sovereignty.


----------



## Julia (23 April 2010)

Calliope said:


> Mofra obviously has double standards. On one hand he claims he has praised Howard's efforts to keep the illegals out.
> 
> On the other hand he does everything in his power to attract them.



Or perhaps Mofra simply doesn't have a hard, black and white view, but rather considers that it's a very complex issue where it's sometimes difficult  - with objectivity applied - not to seem to be ambivalent.

I just think it's oh so easy to be absolutely critical when sitting in a secure and comfortable position in a secure and comfortable country.

And, re asylum seekers from Afghanistan and Iraq, perhaps we have some obligation to them in view of Australia having been (and still being) part of the Coalition of the Willing which bombed the **** of these countries.


----------



## Calliope (23 April 2010)

Julia said:


> Or perhaps Mofra simply doesn't have a hard, black and white view, but rather considers that it's a very complex issue where it's sometimes difficult  - with objectivity applied - not to seem to be ambivalent.
> 
> I just think it's oh so easy to be absolutely critical when sitting in a secure and comfortable position in a secure and comfortable country.
> 
> And, re asylum seekers from Afghanistan and Iraq, perhaps we have some obligation to them in view of Australia having been (and still being) part of the Coalition of the Willing which bombed the **** of these countries.




Im afraid we will have to disagree on this one. I think Mofra is a self-righteous bigot.

I support bunyip's view i.e.



> Call it racist or inhumane or callous or whatever, but our first responsibility is to our own country and our own citizens, not to foreigners who come here illegally.




I am not attracted to the  tired old cliche that they come here to escape persecution. I have pointed out the flaws in this argument previously. As for Iraqis; the Shia, the  Kurds  and the Sunnis have been persecuting each other for hundreds of years. That is what they do. I don't think we have bombed them for some years. They get their kicks from bombing each other.

If Afghans feel they are persecuted by the Taliban they can join the Afghan army. If they feel they are being persecuted by us or the Americans they can always  join the Taliban.


----------



## GumbyLearner (23 April 2010)

trainspotter said:


> Just a thought .... Sri Lanka to Ashmore Reef is 4823.6 kms as the crow flies BUT Andaman & Nicobar Islands are only 1396.2 kms to Sri Lanka. Populated by Anglo Indian and Burmese cross cultures and is owned by India.
> 
> The Andaman & Nicobar Islands are a veritable Garden of Eden and a naturalist's heaven. The clean environment, roads, greenery as well as unpolluted fresh air attract all nature lovers. The tropical rain forests and waters of Bay of Bengal are the home of a vast collection of plant, animal and marine life. Topographically the islands are hilly in places fringed with coconut palm, covered with tropical jungle and interspersed with flat stretches of crescent shaped beaches. Adventure tourism like trekking, Island camping, snorkeling, SCUBA diving etc. and other water sports are the real attractions. A marvelous mix of nature's most precious delights, the Andaman & Nicobar Islands are a once in a lifetime holiday experience.
> 
> ...




Just checked out the link. That place looks bloody nice TS. Do you know what airlines fly there? I'm currently looking at a holiday destination for myself and the mrs. It would be great to know costs and any possible flight packages. 

Cheers
Gumby

P.S Those beaches are bloody gorgeous

http://tourism.andaman.nic.in/beaches.htm


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## So_Cynical (23 April 2010)

Calliope said:


> If Afghans feel they are persecuted by the Taliban they can join the Afghan army. If they feel they are being persecuted by us or the Americans they can always join the Taliban.




Page 6 of this thread and your openly encouraging Afghans to join the Taliban and thus kill Australians...Absolutely brilliant Calliope, give your self a big pat on your ANZAC back...your a star.


----------



## bunyip (24 April 2010)

So_Cynical said:


> Page 6 of this thread and your openly encouraging Afghans to join the Taliban and thus kill Australians...Absolutely brilliant Calliope, give your self a big pat on your ANZAC back...your a star.




Calliope hasn't encouraged anyone to join anything - he's simply outlined the options available to them.


----------



## Calliope (24 April 2010)

bunyip said:


> Calliope hasn't encouraged anyone to join anything - he's simply outlined the options available to them.




The illegals supporters and  opportunists like S-C never let the truth get in the way of an opportunity to spread their hate of those critical of their agenda.

This guy So-Cynical never misses an opportunity to have a shot at me mainly because he sees me as a class enemy. If he were an Afghan he would most likely  lean towards the Taliban

Now by some stretch of the imagination he thinks the Afghans can be influenced by a comment of mine.

To get back to more rational argument. It is my opinion that if Afghans and Iraqis thought we were responsible for their predicament, Australia is the last place they would flee to.


----------



## Lukas (24 April 2010)

Calliope said:


> There's nothing that tugs at the heartstrings of a bleeding heart more than an illegal turning up on our doorstep and claiming asylum because he is fleeing persecution, although most of them find it safe enough to leave their families behind.
> 
> They are coming here for one reason only...we are a welfare state. They will go through or around safe haven (but poor) countries to get here.




"They are coming here for one reason only...we are a welfare state"
Can you provide evidence of this extreme theory?


----------



## Calliope (24 April 2010)

Lukas said:


> "They are coming here for one reason only...we are a welfare state"
> Can you provide evidence of this extreme theory?




It is obvious to anyone with half a brain. Other safe havens for Moslems, like Pakistan, Malaysia and Indonesia are not welfare states so these characters either go through them or around them.

Similarly, if Tamils think they are persecuted they can easily go the few miles to India just by catching a ferry. But India is not a welfare state.

They are indeed the privileged few who choose to come here but their outlay pays big dividends not available to less fortunate Australians.


----------



## Mofra (24 April 2010)

Calliope said:


> Obviously I was wrong. You are in denial. You should stop inventing things that you wish I had said in order to denigrate me.



I don't need to denigrate you - you seem to be doing a great deal of that yourself.

We're going around in circles, so I'll leave it at that, and only respond to those who have something intelligent to say on the subjecy for now, cheers.


----------



## Mofra (24 April 2010)

Lukas said:


> "They are coming here for one reason only...we are a welfare state"
> Can you provide evidence of this extreme theory?



That's actually incorrect, and a common misconception of those who know little on the subject beyond a typical mistrust of foreigners.

Until a temporary protection Visa is issued (regardless of method of entry) they cannot claim any Government benefits. Once a Visa is granted, every single person I have spoken to or heard of has expressed a desire to work. 

In my experience the dole bludger element in society has one common factor - born and raised in Australia.


----------



## Mofra (24 April 2010)

bunyip said:


> Well whatever Howard did to stop the invasion of boat people, I wish Rudd would show enough intelligence and common sense to do the same.



Unfortunately, we need a government that is focussed more on action and effect, rather than spin and opinion polls.


----------



## Calliope (24 April 2010)

Mofra said:


> Until a temporary protection Visa is issued (regardless of method of entry) they cannot claim any Government benefits.




They don't have to claim benefits. From the moment they arrive in Australian waters they are looked after and all the needs met by our welfare state until they get their visas and then it's open slather.



> Once a Visa is granted, every single person I have spoken to or heard of has expressed a desire to work.




Well they would, wouldn't they? They know a gullible fool when they see one.



> In my experience the dole bludger element in society has one common factor - born and raised in Australia.




Your experience in the real world is obviously very limited, if you have to rubbish law abiding white Australians to show your preference for illegals.. What made you so bigoted?


----------



## Mofra (24 April 2010)

Haha read the above for a laugh ^^^

Might have to refer a few people to this via hotlink (born & raised in Australia = white only. Classic!)

People actually think this 

(Just slipped in prior to activating the ignore list - what a great function)


----------



## Chris45 (24 April 2010)

About 95% of Australians are white.


----------



## Mofra (24 April 2010)

Chris45 said:


> About 95% of Australians are white.



89.3% according to wiki.


----------



## bunyip (24 April 2010)

Mofra said:


> Unfortunately, we need a government that is focussed more on action and effect, rather than spin and opinion polls.




That's why I'll be voting against Rudd - spin and opinion polls are his stock in trade.
In the history of Australia there's never been another Prime Minister, not even Whitlam, who has matched Rudd's talent for stuffing up pretty much whatever he touches. 
His handling of the illegal immigration issue is his most glaringly obvious stuff up, but there are plenty of others.
He'd be battling to run a bath successfully, let alone run a country.


----------



## Chris45 (24 April 2010)

Mofra said:


> 89.3% according to wiki.



Just rechecked: 
According to http://www.immi.gov.au, in 1988 Anglo-Celt & other European = 93.8%
According to wiki and my calculations, in 2006 Anglo-Celt & other European = 91.8%
You reckon we're down to 89.3%
Aaarrgghh! The coloureds are taking over!!!


----------



## Calliope (24 April 2010)

Mofra said:


> Haha read the above for a laugh ^^^
> 
> Might have to refer a few people to this via hotlink (born & raised in Australia = white only. Classic!)
> 
> ...




It seems like you have got a slight case of hysteria. You know quite well that you can't ignore me. I have your measure. Your mission on this thread is to get support for aiding and abetting illegal immigration. Apparently you also get a kick out of denigrating white Australians, if they don't love the illegals as much as you. What is your motive?

My mission is to prick the ego of pompous do-gooders. That is not easy with you...your hide is too thick. Unlike you I  have no ulterior motive. It is just a fun thing.

Over to you.


----------



## Calliope (25 April 2010)

Mofra, 

I think today would be a suitable time for you to reflect on your ignorant racial  slurs about white Australians.

I know you can't answer because you have backed yourself into a corner that you can't weasel your way out of.


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## Mofra (27 April 2010)

Chris45 said:


> Just rechecked:
> According to http://www.immi.gov.au, in 1988 Anglo-Celt & other European = 93.8%
> According to wiki and my calculations, in 2006 Anglo-Celt & other European = 91.8%
> You reckon we're down to 89.3%
> Aaarrgghh! The coloureds are taking over!!!



If ACA or TT have subscribed to this thread, their week's programming is already sorted out


----------



## Mofra (27 April 2010)

bunyip said:


> That's why I'll be voting against Rudd - spin and opinion polls are his stock in trade.
> In the history of Australia there's never been another Prime Minister, not even Whitlam, who has matched Rudd's talent for stuffing up pretty much whatever he touches.
> His handling of the illegal immigration issue is his most glaringly obvious stuff up, but there are plenty of others.
> He'd be battling to run a bath successfully, let alone run a country.



Probably an unfair comparison - Whitlam took responsibility for his failings (to a degree). 
Rudd leaves his junior ministers to do the explaining, and then tries to hide the backflips on page 2 or 3 of a policy document.

The only way to stem the tide is to negotiate with Indonesia. Rudd wont work that out until someone else does first so he can steal their idea.


----------



## bunyip (28 April 2010)

Mofra said:


> Probably an unfair comparison - Whitlam took responsibility for his failings (to a degree).
> Rudd leaves his junior ministers to do the explaining, and then tries to hide the backflips on page 2 or 3 of a policy document.
> 
> _*The only way to stem the tide is to negotiate with Indonesia. Rudd wont work that out until someone else does first so he can steal their idea.*_




What is there to work out though - the Howard government already had it worked out for him. All Rudd had to do was continue their very effective policy.

I've often wondered why Rudd abandoned Howard's Pacific Solution, given how effective it was in curbing illegal immigration by boat people. The only answer I can come up with is that he was trying to appeal to voters by appearing humane and caring, as opposed to Howard's hard line policy towards illegals.


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## Mofra (28 April 2010)

bunyip said:


> What is there to work out though - the Howard government already had it worked out for him. All Rudd had to do was continue their very effective policy.
> 
> I've often wondered why Rudd abandoned Howard's Pacific Solution, given how effective it was in curbing illegal immigration by boat people. The only answer I can come up with is that he was trying to *appeal to voters by appearing *humane and caring, as opposed to Howard's hard line policy towards illegals.



I don't believe the Rudd government is adept when it comnes to matters of international relations - the issue regarding a seat at the recent nuclear disarmament summit is a case in point.

The bolded part is something which I think most here would acknowledge - appearances tend to matter more than substance when it comes to Rudd. People Smugglers in Indonesia know that it's the poor fisherman at the end of the chain who will be prosecuted for crewing the boats captured by Australia as without sufficient diplomatic pressure the Indon government wont act against their own whilst a dollar is to be made.


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## Happy (11 May 2010)

> http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/05/11/2895907.htm?section=justin
> 
> *Housing asylum seekers in motels 'common practice'*
> 
> ...





Wander why isn't it mandatory to house all homeless people first?


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## newbie trader (11 May 2010)

Happy said:


> Wander why isn't it mandatory to house all homeless people first?




Great question.


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## Bobby (11 May 2010)

Yep' its a pathetic back/hander to our own needy Aussie poor.  :frown:

Like to  say more  without  getting more infractions .

Bob.


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## Julia (11 May 2010)

Happy said:


> Wander why isn't it mandatory to house all homeless people first?



Exactly.  We have so many people, especially the mentally ill, living on the streets.  Not only are these asylum seekers being accommodated at a four star level, given money for shopping etc., but they also receive immediate medical and dental care, something denied many Australians.


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## todster (11 May 2010)

Well if kevin can hang in there for 2 more terms he would have had as much time as Howard to do something about it


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## Duckman#72 (11 May 2010)

With a  little bit of spin Rudd's previous policy disasters might rise like a Masterchef's souffle. Stay tuned for the following announcements:

_Greg Combat to announce 100,000 unused pink batts will be converted into sleeping bags and distributed to the homeless around the country.

Julia Gillard to announce that the tens of thousands of  BER funded "multi purpose undercover areas" that the schools never wanted in the first place will be converted to overnight shelter accommodation for the homeless.

Peter Garrett to announce that the homeless will be paid a Solar Energy Grant for linking their reflective pink batt sleeping bags into the electricity grid during daylight hours, thereby reducing Australia's overall carbon footprint as well as smashing Australia's unemployment rate to an all time low_.

In one fell swoop, Rudd can clean up all his mess. 

Duckman


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## Happy (12 May 2010)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/05/12/2897462.htm?section=justin


> *Asylum seekers rescued from sinking boat*
> 
> The Federal Government says a group of asylum seekers has been rescued from a sinking boat in waters north-west of Australia.
> The 48 people were transferred to Customs ship the Oceanic Viking yesterday afternoon.
> ...





Just happened that boat was taking water when spotted.

Well, if somebody asks me I hate to be taken for a ride, but suppose we need far right Government to be able to spot the difference between being part of UN convention and organised smuggling crime.

I noticed that some countries in Europe use harder line on illegal immigration.


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## Mofra (12 May 2010)

Happy said:


> I noticed that some countries in Europe use harder line on illegal immigration.



The same countries that negotiate with each other in an attempt to create a coordinated approach to people smuggling.

We can't deal with the problem on a piecemeal basis - regional cooperation is the only way forward.


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## Julia (16 May 2010)

A report in today's "Sunday Mail" says asylum seekers being accommodated at a Brisbane motel are now receiving personal training sessions.



> The training sessions began on Thursday at Virginia Palms Motel's gym where a group of asylum seekers is being held.
> And yesterday Federal Treasurer Wayne Swan - whose electorate includes the motel - paid a visit.
> 
> Personal trainer Brad Williams of Carpe Diem Personal Training began the three hour sessions for a group of about six men on Thursday.
> "It gies them a bit of an outlet, rather than sitting around waiting to be processed through the system," Mr Williams said yesterday.






> However, Brisbane psychologist and fitness coach Kellee Waters of Fit Minds and Bodies said it was appalling that asylum seekers were being given personal fitness training.
> 
> Ms Waters - who runs weight and lifestyle management programs - said Australians with serious weight problems could not claim Medicare, unless they also had anxiety, depression or a disease.




Jeez, what next?   Fashion and hairstyling advice?
Good to know how our tax dollars are being spent.


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## Happy (4 June 2010)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/06/04/2918743.htm?section=justin

*Asylum seekers rescued from stricken bo*at

_The Federal Government says a boat carrying 28 asylum seekers and two crew has been rescued by Australian border protection authorities.
It says the boat was taking on water and did not have any food or drinking water.
..._


It will not change until they are turned around and directed back to proper authorities for orderly processing including propper queue.

Carbon copy of all other stricken vessels, and our authorities miraculously are there to save them.

Unfortunately election will be the only time that anyboy will be allowed to have an opinion!


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## wynsum (26 June 2010)

Pick them up and take them back to where they come from!.....

For goodness sake look after our own.


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## Lopalong (26 June 2010)

Happy said:


> _The Federal Government says a boat carrying 28 asylum seekers and two crew has been rescued by Australian border protection authorities.
> It says the boat was taking on water and did not have any food or drinking water.
> ..._
> 
> ...




No doubt they _"Pull the plug"_ when the Aussie ships arrive on the scene to force their rescue. And you my friend would do exactly the same.



wynsum said:


> Pick them up and take them back to where they come from!.....




One just cannot do that in the name of humanity, and you my friend should consider the boot to be on the other foot for whatever reason and the treatment you would expect as a refugee to another country.


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## Calliope (2 July 2010)

Now the Vietnamese are coming again. Are they still fleeing oppression?




> *The one boat that’s too, too many*
> Andrew Bolt – Friday, July 02, 10 (07:04 am)
> 
> WITH even Vietnamese now turning up in boats, Julia Gillard has her excuse.
> ...




http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/


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## Happy (13 July 2010)

TURNING BACK BOATS 'WOULD BE SAFE'


....Opposition immigration spokesman Scott Morrison continues to talk up the coalition's border protection credentials, saying the party has the "resolve" to turn back boats....

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=7928759


Probably some will not agree.


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## drsmith (13 July 2010)

Nauru seem to be keen to put their hand up for the blank cheque.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/pol...n-asylum-seekers/story-e6frgczf-1225891320865


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## Julia (14 July 2010)

Yep, and they've also suggested they'd be prepared to become a signatory to the UN Convention on Refugees.  This would appear to remove any logical objection to Nauru on the government's part.

Stephen Smith was quite persistently questioned about this on Radio National this morning, but refused to say anything other than that the government still was "in discussions with East Timor".

They will do anything to avoid offering the opposition the opportunity of crowing that they've gone 100% back to the Howard Pacific Solution, including unnecessarily spending millions more of taxpayer funds.


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## Calliope (14 July 2010)

Gillard, Rudd and the rest of the gang have always claimed that they did not actively encourage illegal immigrants to come to Australia. This is a lie. Up to 50% of Tamils fleeing to Australia have connections to the LTTE - Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eclam. *This is a proscribed terrorist organisation in the US, Canada, Britain and the EU countries, but not in Australia.
*
This is the only reason we can claim not to have found terrorists among the illegals.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...e-ties-to-tigers/story-e6frg6nf-1225891388934


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## noco (14 July 2010)

Julia said:


> Yep, and they've also suggested they'd be prepared to become a signatory to the UN Convention on Refugees.  This would appear to remove any logical objection to Nauru on the government's part.
> 
> Stephen Smith was quite persistently questioned about this on Radio National this morning, but refused to say anything other than that the government still was "in discussions with East Timor".
> 
> They will do anything to avoid offering the opposition the opportunity of crowing that they've gone 100% back to the Howard Pacific Solution, including unnecessarily spending millions more of taxpayer funds.




If Julia Gillard has no other alternative but to use Nauru, she will have to lower her dignity and do a double back flip which she wants to avoid at all costs. She would rather waste millions more tax payers money on another site if it were possible. No doubt she wiill do her best to drag it out untill after the election.


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## Julia (17 February 2012)

The following article appears in today's Courier Mail.
Asylum seekers in the community can access up to $10,000 worth of a 'welcome package' of homewares.
This is in addition to free medical and dental services.

Why can we not give these benefits to our own unemployed and homeless people????
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...000-welcome-pack/story-e6freooo-1226273251317


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## sptrawler (18 February 2012)

What if the detainees start demanding citizenship, before they leave the detention centre?
That then puts the pressure on the government to either build more detention centres or relax immigration rules, which would then bypass the normal protocolls.
All this because they can't admit they stuffed up.
Funnily enough they think the pink batts was a success, the school building gravy train was magic.
I think this is going to be a real new age for Australia.LOL


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## Glen48 (18 February 2012)

12,000 Greek's turned up at a seminar on migrating to Australia I read so start learning a foreign language and get s full time job with the Fed's


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## sptrawler (18 February 2012)

Julia said:


> The following article appears in today's Courier Mail.
> Asylum seekers in the community can access up to $10,000 worth of a 'welcome package' of homewares.
> This is in addition to free medical and dental services.
> 
> ...




Yes Julia I wonder how many pensioners that payed taxes all their lives, but grew old before supperannuation, are left alone living on cat food?
$14,000 is not much money if you are a widow renting. It is realy sad when there is more sympathy for people who pay to be smuggled in, than for our widowed mothers that struggle to make ends meet. 
Jeez have we lost the plot, most of our widows lived through the war, yet are treated like second class citizens.
Yet the illegal asylum seekers make front page news, because they came through hard times. Then they complain about their airconditioned accomodation.
Most migrants came here and had to rent crappy state houses, 4 kids in a two bedroom +sleep out. They just got on with it, how stupid was that, they should have bitched and complained and sown their lips together.
Maybe if they had done that they wouldn't now be eating cat food.
Just shows if you sit on youre ar$e and bitch and complain, eventually somebody will jump up and soldier your cause.
Does that make for a country of people who try to better themselves, or a country of bludgers, that want other bludgers to make enough noise so the bludgers can sit and bitch together.
While pulling the dole, or ringing you at tea time.
My rant for the day.


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## Glen48 (22 February 2012)

Another Migrant:
http://www.youtube.com/embed/W86jlvrG54o?rel=0


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## joea (10 June 2012)

Well Tony Abbott had a few words to say to the media on the "refugee policy" and the government is all over him.
Obviously the Four Corners story hit a "raw nerve".

Latest link, and sure enough Tony Jones gets a mention.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-06-09/four-corners-rejects-the-australian-article/4062208

Interesting how quick Labor can respond to some articles, but mention Craig Thompson and they 'go to ground".

The Election campaign is gathering momentum!

joea


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## numbercruncher (10 June 2012)

These people arnt aloud to work so I hope you dont propose we realease hem into the bush to fend for themselves while they are processed ?

And I noticed there was selective quoting from that article!

You missed this



> "People do not get to keep the goods. They remain in a house when a family moves out and are used by the next people who move in," he said.




I do however think many of the goods could be supplied second hand. 

Yes a waste of a few million dollars perhaps. But nothing compared to the billions Governments past and present have wasted on other pea brain schemes like First Home Buyers grants , baby bonuses , negative gearing , wars for oil etc etc


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## numbercruncher (10 June 2012)

Julia said:


> The following article appears in today's Courier Mail.
> Asylum seekers in the community can access up to $10,000 worth of a 'welcome package' of homewares.
> This is in addition to free medical and dental services.
> 
> ...




Haha give it a rest Julia - you clearly dont like the " unemployed " or those you perceive are able to help themselves in the welfare state.

The unemployed or homeless can rock up to a hospital and get medical and dental help like anyone.

And im sure if you went to your local salvos or what ever they could deck you out with plenty of secondhand homewares for around about zip.


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## Julia (10 June 2012)

numbercruncher said:


> Haha give it a rest Julia - you clearly dont like the " unemployed " or those you perceive are able to help themselves in the welfare state.



What on earth are you on about ?  I've long made the point that the dole is totally inadequate and we need to give more support to those who are unemployed.
You obviously lack the comprehension to understand what I'm saying.  I would much prefer to see our taxpayer funds providing greater assistance to the Australians who are homeless and/or just simply doing it tough, many of whom have paid tax in this country.



> The unemployed or homeless can rock up to a hospital and get medical and dental help like anyone.



Ah, that will be why public dental waiting lists are up to 7 years in many years.
If such services were so freely available, we wouldn't see people with rotten teeth because they cannot access dental care.  I worked in the welfare sector for more than 12 years and have a pretty reasonable idea of the misery endured by many decent Australians who have lost their jobs through illness or other disadvantage.



> And im sure if you went to your local salvos or what ever they could deck you out with plenty of secondhand homewares for around about zip.



I don't know why I bother even responding to rubbish like this.  I can more than support myself with no assistance from anyone thanks.  That does not, however, preclude my being concerned for others who are so much less fortunate.
Unlike yourself, apparently.


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## numbercruncher (10 June 2012)

Hello julia -


I wasnt saying you personally can go to salvos etc - clearly you are well off and wouldnt need the services of charity.

But an unemployed person or homeless person has access to any number of charities to deck them out is what I said.

Your right I must of misunderstood what your saying about unemployed etc in the past , you often comment about elderly retirees needing more money etc - not sure how we can finance that though.

All good - nothing personal, just saying.


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## joea (28 June 2012)

The Coalition had a policy that worked in the past, but may  need a revamp.
The government has no policy that will work, and will not accept the Coalition's.
The Greens have a policy they say will work, so give it a go. It just happens to open the 
borders to all and sundry.

Now I do not want be perceived as callous, but there appears a lot of people concerned about
the loss of life at sea.
However, we and other countries supply arms and munitions to countries (purchased from our aid
packages I suspect) and the loss of life that results from this is barely mentioned.

My point is, the problem is not the boats and the smugglers, it is the governments in these 
countries that do not value a persons life.
e.g. a father decapitated his daughter, and paraded through the streets with the head
to show the town folk. Why? It was thought (or she did), sleep around.

It it is obvious that some are fleeing from a future with no hope.
And others are coming to live off the Australian tax payer.

It is about time Canberra got it's act together and begin to represent  Australia,
and the Australian people and not a party. 
joea


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## sails (28 June 2012)

joea said:


> The Coalition had a policy that worked in the past, but may  need a revamp.
> The government has no policy that will work, and will not accept the Coalition's.
> The Greens have a policy they say will work, so give it a go. It just happens to open the
> borders to all and sundry.
> ...





Joea, the problem that I have with people "fleeing from persecution" is that they seem to want to bring the very draconian culture here with them from which they are supposedly "fleeing".  Most people genuinely fleeing persecution do not want to bring the persecution with them and are happy to start a new life.

I would be happy if we increased our intake of GENUINE refugees who want a better life and who don't want to bring the very stuff from which they are supposed to be fleeing.


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## Calliope (28 June 2012)

Surely it would be tidier to confine Asylum Seeker posts to the main thread - *Asylum immigrants - Green Light*


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## Knobby22 (28 June 2012)

Calliope said:


> Surely it would be tidier to confine Asylum Seeker posts to the main thread - *Asylum immigrants - Green Light*




yes


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## Julia (28 June 2012)

Calliope said:


> Surely it would be tidier to confine Asylum Seeker posts to the main thread - *Asylum immigrants - Green Light*



Yes +1.


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## joea (28 June 2012)

Calliope said:


> Surely it would be tidier to confine Asylum Seeker posts to the main thread - *Asylum immigrants - Green Light*




I stand corrected.
God bless ye all!!
joea:bananasmi


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