# North Korea



## MrBurns (9 June 2009)

Does anyone else think there is something nasty on the horizon with this regime ?

They're crazy and they have nukes, it doesnt get much worse than that.


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## moXJO (9 June 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Does anyone else think there is something nasty on the horizon with this regime ?
> 
> .




Yes they may bring back Mash on TV, or even worse make an updated Mash


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## prawn_86 (9 June 2009)

The US is crazy and has nukes.

Where's the difference?

*starts singing Team America song*


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## Sean K (9 June 2009)

I don't think they're that silly. They'll push the US (maybe even the West this time) to the brink in order to get some sort of concessions like free food, or cash, and then conceed. Until they need some more free food, and cash, later on and the music starts again ... Hm, actually Saddam tried that too didn't he.


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## MrBurns (9 June 2009)

prawn_86 said:


> The US is crazy and has nukes.
> 
> Where's the difference?
> 
> *starts singing Team America song*




There crazy and then there's crazy. this lot are in the worst category and will either attack or make the nukes available to those that are even crazier, someone like the Taliban, at least here in Australia we'll have a few hours notice after California has disappeared before one arrives here.


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## MrBurns (9 June 2009)

kennas said:


> I don't think they're that silly. They'll push the US (maybe even the West this time) to the brink in order to get some sort of concessions like free food, or cash, and then conceed. Until they need some more free food, and cash, later on and the music starts again ... Hm, actually Saddam tried that too didn't he.




The more they push the more others have to give in the closer we get to the moment when some idiot pushes the button, the Yanks have proven they wont use nukes (ok except WW11)but these people dont instill me with that feeling, I think one day one of these fools will just do it.


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## happytown (9 June 2009)

kennas said:


> ...
> 
> They'll push the US (maybe even the West this time) to the brink ...




tend to think the pushing will be (read is) coming from the other side

people seem to forget that the right of self defence in international affairs applies to all

indeed the icj in their decision regarding the use of nuclear weapons in strict self defence did not rule them out (the use thereof)

as to the ridiculous and patently false claim that the us will not use nuclear weapons, the us has declared publicly it will (in strategic defence policies available for anyone to read)

only yesterday sec of state clintonium 235 stated that the us nuclear umbrella extends over israel as well as a number of nations and that uncle scam would react massively to any iranian nuclear attack on israel (this depite the fact that both the iaea and us intelligence state that iran does not currently have a nuclear weapons program)

further, and indeed germane here, it has been reported that recently the south korean govt recieved a written guarantee that the nuclear umbrella extands over them as well   

cheers


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## Timmy (9 June 2009)

happytown said:


> people seem to forget that the right of self defence in international affairs applies to all




Even to loopy military dictatorships that murder their own citizens.



happytown said:


> as to the ridiculous and patently false claim that the us will not use nuclear weapons, the us has declared publicly it will (in strategic defence policies available for anyone to read)




I know the US used nuclear weapons to end WW2, obviously I have missed all the other times they have used them.  Must have been watching The Simpsons instead of the news that night.




happytown said:


> further, and indeed germane here, it has been reported that recently the south korean govt recieved a written guarantee that the nuclear umbrella extands over them as well




Good.  Being a democracy that allows its citizens to live, and to eat, and to have families, and to travel, I am glad.


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## happytown (9 June 2009)

Timmy said:


> ...
> 
> I know the US used nuclear weapons to end WW2, *obviously I have missed all the other times they have used them*.  Must have been watching The Simpsons instead of the news that night.
> 
> ...




i don't believe anyone on this thread has stated that they have used them (in anything but a testing scenario) since they used them in ww2, correct me if i am wrong

cheers


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## Timmy (9 June 2009)

happytown said:


> i don't believe anyone on this thread has stated that they have used them (in anything but a testing scenario) since they used them in ww2, correct me if i am wrong
> 
> cheers




So _thats _the best you can do by way of response?

You may have missed a more important point, I'll spell it out real simple for you: North Korea is an example of a


Timmy said:


> military dictatorship that murder their own citizens.



Correct me if I am wrong  (and I don't mean the grammar).


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## Julia (9 June 2009)

The concern at present is for the two American  journalists who were captured I think at the border, have been charged with I don't know what, and sentenced to 12 years hard labour.   It's not hard to imagine the North Koreans took this opportunity to have a bargaining point with the U.S.


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## MrBurns (9 June 2009)

Julia said:


> The concern at present is for the two American  journalists who were captured I think at the border, have been charged with I don't know what, and sentenced to 12 years hard labour.   It's not hard to imagine the North Koreans took this opportunity to have a bargaining point with the U.S.




Evil people with nukes worry me.


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## prawn_86 (9 June 2009)

But why should that be any other countries responsibility Timmy?

Ultimately it has to be the general populous that rises up if they want change, and only when they are ready. Thats how every other revoloution has gone down, and other countires meddling just tends to make things worse


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## Timmy (9 June 2009)

Prawn - not saying it anyone's responsibility (even though I do believe anything we can do to depose this state is a good thing - but I also take your point about the potential to make things worse), what  I am saying here is that a state (Nth Korea) run by a military dictatorship that murders and starves its own population should be deprived of getting access to nuclear weapons.


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## Timmy (9 June 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Evil people with nukes worry me.




Yep, thank-you Mr. B.


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## happytown (9 June 2009)

Timmy said:


> So _thats _the best you can do by way of response?
> 
> ...




being factual ... yes

are you inferring that i said that the us has used nuclear weapons post-ww2 other than in a testing scenario

as to your statement that you think north korea is a loopy military dictatorship that kills its own citizens and the inference that they therefore do not have the right to self defence against external aggressors (including but not limited to those who have stated publicly that they are prepared to use nuclear weapons in potential future conflicts), you are absolutely entitled to that opinion

i will state again, all countries are, under international law, entitled to act in self defence and this currently does not explicitly exclude the use of nuclear weapons

this includes north korea

cheers


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## Timmy (9 June 2009)

Thanks for the lesson on international law.  

What does international law say about mass murder of its own people by a state?

Given the position of international law is clear, do you have any view on the desirability of Nth. Korea having nuclear weapons?


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## happytown (9 June 2009)

Timmy said:


> Thanks for the lesson on international law.
> 
> ...




happy to help those in the dark timmy

cheers


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## Timmy (9 June 2009)

Thanks happytown - any time I need some conveyancing I'll know where to send it! 



kennas said:


> I don't think they're that silly. They'll push the US (maybe even the West this time) to the brink in order to get some sort of concessions like free food, or cash, and then conceed. Until they need some more free food, and cash, later on and the music starts again ... Hm, actually Saddam tried that too didn't he.




Yes he did.  Just once too often ...


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## happytown (9 June 2009)

Timmy said:


> Thanks happytown - any time I need some conveyancing I'll know where to send it!
> 
> ...




a few too many assumptions there timmy 

cheers


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## jono1887 (9 June 2009)

I personally think we should be more concerned with the nukes that are in India and Sri-Lanka considering they sri lanka has an unstable political regime and is in some form a civil war... also considering the high probability of terrorists within both those countries. Once the terrorists get their hands on those, im pretty sure they wont be too scared letting a few off. N. Korea is quite stable politically and there is no threat of terrorists getting their hands on those nukes... and the probability of them launching this is very slim.


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## MrBurns (9 June 2009)

Timmy said:


> Thanks happytown - any time I need some conveyancing I'll know where to send it!
> Yes he did.  Just once too often ...




He didnt have nukes, the North Koreans do, if the US decided to take them on it could be armagedon.


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## Agentm (9 June 2009)

if north korea go to war they have to do it before 9pm when the lights go out.

its more likely that the north koreans will trade their alleged nuclear capabilities for something to keep them warm at night like electricity








should they go to war it would be only during daytime hours, and imho their ability nuke their neighbors may be at a severe disadvantage to them, frying a few million people would in itself not be a win situation for them, they surely have to consider what the military objective would be.. imho the repercussions would be severe.. 

as far as resources go, they have a lot of coal and use hydro also for electricity, but oil comes from the soviets and china by pipeline.. imho if they start nuking their oil will stop and imho the strategic bombing of the entire nation would continue relentlessly not only by the US forces but imho many other regional interests would be chipping in.

every time north korea declares war on the world, it desperately needed either fuel or food for its populace.    the nuke thing should get them a bit more as its a bigger bargaining chip

all imho


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## gordon2007 (9 June 2009)

HUH?


Perhaps you mean pakistan? Sri Lanka does not have nukes. 




jono1887 said:


> I personally think we should be more concerned with the nukes that are in India and Sri-Lanka considering they sri lanka has an unstable political regime and is in some form a civil war...


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## jono1887 (9 June 2009)

gordon2007 said:


> HUH?
> 
> 
> Perhaps you mean pakistan? Sri Lanka does not have nukes.




oh yeh... my bad


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## Ferret (11 June 2009)

Statement by the official Korean Central News Agency (North Korea) on Tuesday:
"Our nuclear deterrent will be a strong defensive means ... as well as a merciless *offensive* means to deal a just retaliatory strike to those who touch the country's dignity and sovereignty even a bit"

So they say they are happy to be the first to fire with nukes - great.


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## MrBurns (16 June 2009)

Just heard the US has 1000 nukes in Sth Korea aimed at the north.

No wonder they're not particularly concerned

errrrr that may be old news - 


> The North Korean newspaper Rodong Sinmun reportedly has issued a statement saying the U.S. has 1,000 nuclear weapons in South Korea. In this regional war of rhetoric it is important to at least get one fact right: The United States does not have nuclear weapons in South Korea. It used to - at some point close to 1,000 - but the last were withdrawn in 1991.


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## rub92me (16 June 2009)

Maybe helpful to have some context why North Korea are going down this path. In 1994, there was a framework agreement with North Korea to stop nuclear weapons development in North Korea. In return, the West, primarily the United States, pledged to provide them with the capacity for nuclear energy development. The West didn't live up to that bargain. And then the Bush Administration came in, with the whole axis of evil thing and the Weapons of Mass Desruction . And that was effectively the end of the framework agreement. Korea then began to carry out the uranium enrichment for nuclear weapons (again). Not saying they're not loony and shouldn't be stopped. But maybe a smarter president in the US wouldn't have hurt either.


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## MrBurns (16 June 2009)

rub92me said:


> Maybe helpful to have some context why North Korea are going down this path. In 1994, there was a framework agreement with North Korea to stop nuclear weapons development in North Korea. In return, the West, primarily the United States, pledged to provide them with the capacity for nuclear energy development. The West didn't live up to that bargain. And then the Bush Administration came in, with the whole axis of evil thing and the Weapons of Mass Desruction . And that was effectively the end of the framework agreement. Korea then began to carry out the uranium enrichment for nuclear weapons (again). Not saying they're not loony and shouldn't be stopped. But maybe a smarter president in the US wouldn't have hurt either.




Interesting, thanks for that but still doesnt explian why  North Korea think they can bluff the USA it's the actions of stupid people.


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## MrBurns (15 March 2013)

MrBurns said:


> Does anyone else think there is something nasty on the horizon with this regime ?
> 
> They're crazy and they have nukes, it doesnt get much worse than that.




Nothing much has changed since this was posted in 2009...............or has it ?


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## CanOz (15 March 2013)

MrBurns said:


> Nothing much has changed since this was posted in 2009...............or has it ?




One thing i don't believe is that they're evil....a _little_ mis-guided and certainly brain washed. Its an unfortunate result of "face". Kim could literally be the savior of his people if he only embraced a more open model. Surely, looking and watching as the South has become one of Asia's biggest economies must have had some impact through that thick skull?

CanOz


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## skc (15 March 2013)

CanOz said:


> One thing i don't believe is that they're evil....a _little_ mis-guided and certainly brain washed. Its an unfortunate result of "face". Kim could literally be the savior of his people if he only embraced a more open model. Surely, looking and watching as the South has become one of Asia's biggest economies must have had some impact through that thick skull?
> 
> CanOz




They make great comedy sketches... apparanetly this is the news footage of them sending man into space.


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## prawn_86 (15 March 2013)

CanOz said:


> One thing i don't believe is that they're evil....a _little_ mis-guided and certainly brain washed. Its an unfortunate result of "face". Kim could literally be the savior of his people if he only embraced a more open model. Surely, looking and watching as the South has become one of Asia's biggest economies must have had some impact through that thick skull?
> 
> CanOz




Why would he care? HIm and his family use the country as their own personal Sims game. They are above it all and probably dont even consider their actions as harming other people, its all just like a video game to them they are so detached (my theory only)


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## CanOz (15 March 2013)

prawn_86 said:


> Why would he care? HIm and his family use the country as their own personal Sims game. They are above it all and probably dont even consider their actions as harming other people, its all just like a video game to them they are so detached (my theory only)




Yeah that's quite possible too i reckon, no idea really whats going on or doesn't care...

CanOz


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## McLovin (15 March 2013)

CanOz said:
			
		

> One thing i don't believe is that they're evil....a little mis-guided and certainly brain washed.




I dunno Can. Have you read about those labour camps they have set up? They give the Nazis a run for their money. The guy on the street may not be evil, but the apparatus that maintains the status quo has a lot to answer for, IMO.

I don't think they're crazy though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yodok_concentration_camp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_22

DPRK law also states that if you commit a political/cultural crime you and three generations of your family are sent to one of the labour camps.


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## CanOz (15 March 2013)

McLovin said:


> I dunno Can. Have you read about those labour camps they have set up? They give the Nazis a run for their money. The guy on the street may not be evil, but the apparatus that maintains the status quo has a lot to answer for, IMO.
> 
> I don't think they're crazy though.
> 
> ...




OK, i agree that's some pretty evil stuff. But we're talking about a kid basically. Has he inherited evil or has he been taught or does he just not realize everything that his family has done?

I guess its allot harder for me to accept that the young Kim is that evil yet...

CanOz


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## McLovin (15 March 2013)

CanOz said:


> OK, i agree that's some pretty evil stuff. But we're talking about a kid basically. Has he inherited evil or has he been taught or does he just not realize everything that his family has done?
> 
> I guess its allot harder for me to accept that the young Kim is that evil yet...
> 
> CanOz




I can't be so forgiving of someone who sits at the head of such a regime. He may not have to deal with the day to day torture, starvation and murder but, if we're aware of it, then surely he is too. Afterall, he did go to school in Switzerland.

I guess it's possible he's just a figurehead and high ranking military are the ones calling the shot.


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## CanOz (15 March 2013)

McLovin said:


> I can't be so forgiving of someone who sits at the head of such a regime. ... Afterall, he did go to school in Switzerland.
> 
> I guess it's possible he's just a figurehead and high ranking military are the ones calling the shot.




Well i don't mean to sound forgiving i guess i just have a hard time understanding it...

Yes, especially given that he was educated in Europe...

CanOz


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## McLovin (15 March 2013)

CanOz said:


> Well i don't mean to sound forgiving i guess i just have a hard time understanding it...
> 
> Yes, especially given that he was educated in Europe...
> 
> CanOz




Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Al-assad went to Oxford but look at what a tyrant he is.


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## CanOz (15 March 2013)

McLovin said:


> Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.
> 
> Al-assad went to Oxford but look at what a tyrant he is.




Yup, understand and totally agree, but he's so damb young...

Anyway i just hope they don't do anything too stupid. The other thing i can't figure out is why the Chinese don't shut him up.

CanOz


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## McLovin (15 March 2013)

CanOz said:


> Anyway i just hope they don't do anything too stupid. The other thing i can't figure out is why the Chinese don't shut him up.




I'm running out of quotes but...

Better the devil you know?

From the Chinese perspective, NK is stable. There's no flood of refugees streaming across their borders, and it creates a nice buffer between China and the US military bases in South Korea.


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## CanOz (15 March 2013)

McLovin said:


> I'm running out of quotes but...
> 
> Better the devil you know?
> 
> From the Chinese perspective, NK is stable. There's no flood of refugees streaming across their borders, and it creates a nice buffer between China and the US military bases in South Korea.




Fair enough i guess. 

Thanks for the perspective McLovin.

CanOz


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## MrBurns (15 March 2013)

CanOz said:


> Yup, understand and totally agree, but he's so damb young...
> 
> Anyway i just hope they don't do anything too stupid. The other thing i can't figure out is why the Chinese don't shut him up.
> 
> CanOz




Stupid boy crosses the line the USA retaliates, stupid boy deploys nukes, USA does likewise only bigger........China and Russia jump in against the USA.

Stock market crashes........


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## CanOz (15 March 2013)

MrBurns said:


> Stupid boy crosses the line the USA retaliates, stupid boy deploys nukes, USA does likewise only bigger........China and Russia jump in against the USA.
> 
> Stock market crashes........




Not in my lifetime Burnsy!


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## MrBurns (15 March 2013)

CanOz said:


> Not in my lifetime Burnsy!




You must be getting on

The more nukes there are around the more chance of some nut case getting access......radical Muslims wouldn't hesitate to use them.


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## CanOz (15 March 2013)

MrBurns said:


> You must be getting on
> 
> The more nukes there are around the more chance of some nut case getting access......_radical Muslims wouldn't hesitate to use them_.




Yeah, thats something to worry about...not that we haven't got enough fear in our world already lol..


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## McLovin (15 March 2013)

China and America will not go to war. They are too economically entwined. China and Russia have had a deep mistrust for decades. When Chairman Mao was running Communist China he asked the US for protection from the Soviet Union, so distrustful were the Chinese of Russia. Russia, with its Soviet era military technology, is no position to launch a war on anybody, let alone the only super-power. The US spends the same on its military as the next 20 countries combined. Only the deranged or foolish would consider launching an attack on them, which neither China, Russia or NK are.

It's possible that some non-state actor gets its hands on a nuclear device but highly unlikely. The cost of developing the bomb and sourcing the ingredients is extremely high and the technical know how is restricted to a handful of scientists; ie it's not in textbooks. So those countries that would be most likely to let it fall into the wrong hands, either can't afford to build them or can't afford to lose them. Even then, with a nuclear bomb, you need to know how to detonate it. You can literally fire a missle at a nuclear weapon and it won't detonate. They're incredibly stable.


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## MrBurns (16 March 2013)

What a fractured world we live in for the US to have to go to these lengths, if the US ever falters we're in real trouble.
I wouldn't object to Australia financially supporting the US but whatever we could contribute would be miniscule compared to their costs.

In any case Gillard has flushed any money we had down the toilet. 



> US to bolster defences to counter N Korean threat
> 
> The United States says it will bolster its defences against a possible North Korean missile strike by building a number of new interceptor batteries in Alaska.
> 
> ...




http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-03-16/us-to-bolster-defences-to-counter-n-korea-missiles/4577158


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## Whiskers (4 April 2013)

April 15 appears to be hot tip for this dude to test his luck again. 



> Yonhap news agency was reporting North Korea had moved an intermediate-range missile to its east coast in a display of military power.
> 
> It had not been confirmed whether the missile was carrying a warhead, but multiple sources told Yonhap Pyongyang was likely to fire it off around April 15, when North Koreans celebrate the birthday of its founder Kim Il-sung. http://www.news-mail.com.au/news/china-and-us-have-chance-rebuild-trust-kevin-rudd/1818087/




Will this be WW111 or will South Korea, and the US respond in kind plus some... probably before the thing even hits the ground?

Given the number of previous attacks against the south, I can't see these guys backing down until someone gives them a decent kick up the a@se.


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## Calliope (5 April 2013)

Whiskers said:


> April 15 appears to be hot tip for this dude to test his luck again.
> 
> 
> 
> Will this be WW111 or will South Korea, and the US respond in kind plus some... probably before the thing even hits the ground?




What ever happened to World Wars 3 to 110.?


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## McLovin (5 April 2013)

Whiskers said:


> April 15 appears to be hot tip for this dude to test his luck again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




China won't let NK start WW3. It seems like Fat Boy is in some sort of power struggle. They've done this dance before, but they're getting very close to the line between brinkmanship and war. Sweaty hands on triggers is never a sensible situation.


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## Calliope (5 April 2013)

Dear Leader or just a fat porker?





http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...ed-amid-tensions/story-e6frg6so-1226613037611


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## Gringotts Bank (5 April 2013)

McLovin said:


> China won't let NK start WW3. It seems like Fat Boy is in some sort of power struggle. They've done this dance before, but they're getting very close to the line between brinkmanship and war. Sweaty hands on triggers is never a sensible situation.




You're quite good on the history/politics stuff, McL.


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## McLovin (5 April 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> You're quite good on the history/politics stuff, McL.




Thanks

If you look at a map, you get some idea of the strategic "buffer" zone that NK provides China. Basically, all of China's Pacific approaches have a US military presence or are strongly allied to the US (ROK, Japanese mainland, Okinawa, Taiwan, Philippines). All those territory disputes China keeps having over unoccupied islands in the Pacific are aimed at reducing the US's power in China's immediate region. Were NK to fail China would face an American allied, unified Korea with US military bases on its border. That idea is probably as untenable to the Chinese as Mexico agreeing to having Chinese combat troops stationed there is to the US.

The Chinese also know that the countries that are not allied with the US expect China to do their bit in maintaining stability in the region. If NK gets out of hand, those countries in the middle ground are likely to move closer to the US as a response.


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## Boggo (5 April 2013)

Beat him to it !


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## tech/a (5 April 2013)

Hes not the brightest dictator out there.

(The bright ones keep very quiet).

You don't take on the the guys that A bomb'd Japan
and have enough Nukes to destroy every capital city that matters,
that have a war office that just live for go hard's like Him and a CIA who 
don't stop when it comes to whipping out threats---permanently
its a new agenda.

Ill guarantee that in 12 mths time it will be Kim Jong --who?
It will be internal and permanent.The yanks have worked that out!
Just ask Gedaffi!

Is he related to Ma Jong.


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## drsmith (5 April 2013)

I think that if he does anything really silly, then it's a sign that China wants to go to war.


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## bellenuit (6 April 2013)

Read on a website today: "If the current threats from North Korea happened when George Bush was president, he would have already invaded Cambodia".


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## Whiskers (7 April 2013)

drsmith said:


> I think that if he does anything really silly, then it's a sign that China wants to go to war.




Do you really think China would want to go to war with the US while owed abt 1 trillion USD? I'd imagine it would be in the US favor if war broke out to cancel the debt.



bellenuit said:


> Read on a website today: "If the current threats from North Korea happened when George Bush was president, he would have already invaded Cambodia".




Poor old GWB! 


Seriously though, Kim Jong-un is dissilussional... family history. Some allowance must be made for that in his rationale.

He is just itching to take back the south and like Japan in WW2, I expect he thinks he can take out places like Guam to slow the US enough to over run the south and expect China and maybe even Russia to come to his aid in event of war with the US to hold it.

I think the US knows neither China or Russia will go to war to support him and hence their intention to strike back hard and fast, all the way... like GB senior wished he'd done with Iraq. Could be another of those one weekish types of wars like the Falklands and Israel Egypt war where the tension and preperation was there ready to go.


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## sptrawler (7 April 2013)

MrBurns said:


> You must be getting on
> 
> The more nukes there are around the more chance of some nut case getting access......radical Muslims wouldn't hesitate to use them.




That's right, apparently they pick up a lot of chicks.

Imagine trying to sell that here.


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## sptrawler (7 April 2013)

drsmith said:


> I think that if he does anything really silly, then it's a sign that China wants to go to war.




Well if that happens, we will become the next state of the U.S real quick.


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## tinhat (7 April 2013)

I read a very good article - can't find the link - suggesting that it's an internal power struggle between about four senior figures including Kim. He's trying to stamp his authority on the military and the country by creating a crisis against the common enemy and make himself look like a tough guy. They will probably pop a missle off into the ocean to show everyone how badass they are.

Nice to see the gold price rebound a little. I'm hoping the dip on the ASX continues especially in the financials.


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## Country Lad (7 April 2013)

tinhat said:


> They will probably pop a missile off into the ocean to show everyone how badass they are.




And the US shoot it down just in case they are serious about blowing up Guam, or just because they can.  Now that would be a tad embarrassing for the North Koreans.  

Cheers
Country Lad


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## gordon2007 (7 April 2013)

In a slightly humourous way I'm kind of hoping that is actually what happens. But I reckon if that did happen he'd lose so much face that it would trigger some serious outbursts that and actually lead to a war. 


*edited for spelling mistakes.


Country Lad said:


> And the US shoot it down just in case they are serious about blowing up Guam, or just because they can.  Now that would be a tad embarrassing for the North Koreans.
> 
> Cheers
> Country Lad


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## tinhat (7 April 2013)

Country Lad said:


> And the US shoot it down just in case they are serious about blowing up Guam, or just because they can.  Now that would be a tad embarrassing for the North Koreans.
> 
> Cheers
> Country Lad




It depends on which direction they fire it. The North Koreans in recent times have sunk a South Korean ship and bombed a South Korean island and the South Koreans have not responded. They really don't want to engage in a conflict that will break the armistice because any conflict will result in missiles raining down on Seoul. As comical as the North Koreans seems they've got a **** load of missiles pointed at Seoul which is not much more than 50km from the border.


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## DB008 (7 April 2013)

tinhat said:


> I read a very good article - can't find the link - suggesting that it's an internal power struggle between about four senior figures including Kim. He's trying to stamp his authority on the military and the country by creating a crisis against the common enemy and make himself look like a tough guy. They will probably pop a missle off into the ocean to show everyone how badass they are.




I read the same article yesterday. Well written.
I think it was in the SMH or the Australian.


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## Garpal Gumnut (7 April 2013)

Calliope said:


> Dear Leader or just a fat porker?
> 
> View attachment 51641
> 
> ...




Anonymous are on to the little bastard's case.







It is they who hacked the N. Korean government's site and posted the above Miss Piggy version of The Supreme Leader.

Having the USA and Anonymous on his case, will spell the end for him.

Not a good combination to have against you.

gg


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## Knobby22 (8 April 2013)

tinhat said:


> It depends on which direction they fire it. The North Koreans in recent times have sunk a South Korean ship and bombed a South Korean island and the South Koreans have not responded. They really don't want to engage in a conflict that will break the armistice because any conflict will result in missiles raining down on Seoul. As comical as the North Koreans seems they've got a **** load of missiles pointed at Seoul which is not much more than 50km from the border.




...plus heaps of artillery.
I think there might be a minor retaliatory blow if SK do it this time. 
the danger is South Korea might go the next step. 

I wonder where I will be able to get the spare parts for my works Hyundai should that occur

The sad think is Kim Jong-Un would have made a great real estate agent (ref. your previous comment tinhat) but his Aunt is a ruthless Lady Macbeth.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/wo...s-in-north-korea/story-fnd134gw-1226614836996


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## skc (8 April 2013)

Crisis averted.


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## Sean K (8 April 2013)

I dont think this is going anywhere, but it's interesting how far the World allows a 'mature' State to go in regard to the threats and posturing. They've been treated for what they are. An embarrassing joke.


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## Whiskers (8 April 2013)

Knobby22 said:


> ...plus heaps of artillery.
> I think there might be a minor retaliatory blow if SK do it this time.
> the danger is South Korea might go the next step.
> 
> ...




All valid points from the perspective of a fickle recovery from the GFC.

North Korea has been a family affair ever since its inception by Russia in 1948 under Kim Il-sung, who died in 1994.  Russia has transformed a lot since the days of Starlin and will likely concede a-la the Berlin wall and the fall of the USSR.

Not even China would want to go to war with the US while owed abt 1 trillion USD. 

The only real issue is will some of the more moderate generals win out to maintain a Communist government or are the 'Family' and hardline supporters intent on provoking a conflict to take full dictatorial control.



kennas said:


> I dont think this is going anywhere, but it's interesting how far the World allows a 'mature' State to go in regard to the threats and posturing. They've been treated for what they are. An embarrassing joke.




As a general rule humiliating these kind of people only infuriates them more, to retaliate.

While they have an isolated and a significant part of the population endoctrinated to hate and fear the west, a million troops, heaps of tanks and artillery and and annoying amount of planes, subs and ships they remain a serious threat to disrupting the world economy again via South Korea and Japan. 

Apparently the failed rocket/missile launch a while back caused considerable humiliation and further embarrassment also. 

A lot of pent up humuliation, embarrasement and power struggling is more likely to result in some sort of strike to regain national pride, esspecially while the Aunt is a 4 star general and holds considerable influence.

What's the alternative... a coup d'Ã©tat to remove the founding family from any control or renogate them to figureheads, in favor of a communist regeime more like China?


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## Sean K (8 April 2013)

Whiskers said:


> What's the alternative... a coup d'Ã©tat to remove the founding family from any control or renogate them to figureheads, in favor of a communist regeime more like China?



The only true change comes from within I think. The people need to rise up under their own steam.


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## Knobby22 (8 April 2013)

Good writing Whiskers. You make some good points.


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## Whiskers (8 April 2013)

kennas said:


> The only true change comes from within I think. The people need to rise up under their own steam.




True... and there-in lies additional motivation for the rest of the world to strike back hard at the next provication to demonstrate to the north korean people their leaders are incompetent and cause them to question what they are led to believe.

As I understand, international aid has dried up subtantially in the last few years with increased sanctions and the people must be doing it pretty tough... and from all accounts are getting pretty well endoctrinated to blame the west for their situation.

From a psychological perspective, the 'family' see themselves in a catch 22 at the moment, after all the ranting, threats and declaration of war, I think it's more likely now they will have to order a strike, otherwise they will have to back down in further humiliation and relinquish probably total control to the more moderate elements of the communist party.


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## gordon2007 (8 April 2013)

Sorry Kennas but that's an armchair statement to me. How do you propose a starving population who have no means to any outside information in the world rise up? Much easier said than done. 





kennas said:


> The only true change comes from within I think. The people need to rise up under their own steam.


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## Whiskers (12 April 2013)

Getting close to put up or shut up time now with the latest North Korean warning that war could break out at any moment. Also reports of secretive and descrete movement of misile launchers to try to confuse spies.

One of two things will likely happen soon, neither will be good for kim jong un and 'the family'.

It still remains to be seen whether they will actually test whether, despite public pleas, Russia and China will come to their support in the event of war. I'm still leaning in favor of Kim testing his luck again to some degree. 

Also, given the Kim family is considered extreme, even within the North Korean ruling party, can we rule out some sort of collaberation with other state or terrorist sources?


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## Knobby22 (12 April 2013)

I think Whiskers is that we are now in a face saving exercise. The family will just shoot another missile into the sea. I can't see them risking their power by being too provocative.


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## Whiskers (12 April 2013)

Knobby22 said:


> I think Whiskers is that we are now in a face saving exercise. The family will just shoot another missile into the sea. I can't see them risking their power by being too provocative.




It may well end up in the sea, but I'm thinking that will probably be by lack of expertise than design. 

Given they family was appointed by a criminal, psychopathic Stalin when he was becoming increasingly paranoid, and the aunt is a 4 star general controlling a significant element in the military, they have demonstrated the same criminal, psychopathic, cult behaviours as Stalin to date, I'm thinking they won't just back down. 

I'm thinking they may need to provoke a war to regain the south and hope everyone falls in behind... or just enough to seize total dictatorial control of the communist party and country.


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## Country Lad (12 April 2013)

Whiskers said:


> It may well end up in the sea, but I'm thinking that will probably be by lack of expertise than design.




The second most embarrassing would be that it blows up on the launch pad.
The most embarrassing is that it goes off course and drops on China.

Cheers
Country Lad


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## CanOz (12 April 2013)

Country Lad said:


> The second most embarrassing would be that it blows up on the launch pad.
> The most embarrassing is that it goes off course and drops on China.
> 
> Cheers
> Country Lad




You know it not at all unreasonable to think that something like that could happen. This gear is not exactly state of the art, its likely poorly maintained and operated by those with less than up-to-date skills....

I just hope no one gets killed over their childish brinkmanship.

CanOz


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## Sean K (12 April 2013)

Whiskers said:


> It may well end up in the sea, but I'm thinking that will probably be by lack of expertise than design.
> 
> Given they family was appointed by a criminal, psychopathic Stalin when he was becoming increasingly paranoid, and the aunt is a 4 star general controlling a significant element in the military, they have demonstrated the same criminal, psychopathic, cult behaviours as Stalin to date, I'm thinking they won't just back down.
> 
> I'm thinking they may need to provoke a war to regain the south and hope everyone falls in behind... or just enough to seize total dictatorial control of the communist party and country.



I'm hopeful they back down, but worried they won't. If it's war, this wont be as neat as the last couple, but possibly shorter due to the scale of destruction.


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## Calliope (16 April 2013)

These are not real. They are only toy soldiers.


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## db94 (18 May 2013)

http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/national/2013/05/18/25/0301000000AEN20130518002500315F.HTML


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## Garpal Gumnut (18 May 2013)

kennas said:


> I'm hopeful they back down, but worried they won't. If it's war, this wont be as neat as the last couple, but possibly shorter due to the scale of destruction.






Calliope said:


> These are not real. They are only toy soldiers.
> 
> View attachment 51793






db94 said:


> http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/national/2013/05/18/25/0301000000AEN20130518002500315F.HTML




People thought the Nazis were just a mad pack of goons 12 years before they invaded Poland.

I would dearly love to see Kim Jong Un and all his goose stepping mates either annihilated or jailed for crimes against the Korean people.

gg


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## Tisme (4 September 2017)




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## Garpal Gumnut (4 September 2017)

This is the end they stuck up my ass and then they bent me over. It rotated and now this haircut.


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## SirRumpole (4 September 2017)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> This is the end they stuck up my ass and then they bent me over. It rotated and now this haircut.




Wouldn't it be a shame if it turned out like the terrorists who blew themselves up.


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## Wysiwyg (4 September 2017)

One of the old blokes should have the balls to save their countrymen and humanity from this fool. One second to end this fools control. Their name go down in history as someone who saved millions of lives and set the country on a path to freedom and prosperity.


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## Tisme (1 November 2017)

Korea Town visit is enjoyable


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## mullokintyre (6 June 2022)

In another one of those delicious pices of irony that the United Nations continues to dish up, it seems that the North Korean regime has now taken up the chair of the UN Nuclear Disarmament treaty.
From  American Military News


> Last week, North Korea assumed control as the chair of the United Nations Conference on Disarmament, the U.N. forum for negotiating multilateral disarmament efforts across the globe. It’s the latest in a string of questionable moves the U.N. has taken in putting nation officials in contradictory positions.
> 
> North Korea officially took over the U.N. disarmament conference on Monday, according to NK News. The U.N. move quickly drew criticism from nongovernmental organizations that noted North Korea’s major nuclear weapons development efforts in recent months.



No wonder the non western nations laugh at Western Democracy and their stupidity, 
Mick


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