# Poker Stars



## MRC & Co (16 February 2009)

Any regulars here play at Poker Stars and how do you go/what do you play?  

I have just signed up, so far, no luck!  ha ha, but still learning the way these guys play at the various tables.

So far just doing 1 table (or the 180 player tournament) sit and go tables in the low rooms, playing turbo texas holdem with no limits.

Any opinions, thoughts, or anyone want a match?


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## Gundini (16 February 2009)

I play at Full Tilt or 888 but only for fun. Threw $500 in early days, got a $500bonus, then lost it all in about 5 minutes!

Great entertainment for free though, just finished a "Matrix" no limit Holdem, pretty fun stuff if you have some free time...


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## saiter (16 February 2009)

If you play alot of the free games, they give you $5 for free to play with.
If you do happen to get the $5, make sure you stay on the low blind tables (1c/2c) and then work your way up.


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## jersey10 (16 February 2009)

haven't played on poker stars, but do play a bit on pokerroom.com

have started playing 25 / 50c cash games recently after usually playing $5 or $10 tournaments

i think cuttlefish said he signed up on pokerroom on the other poker thread


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## MRC & Co (16 February 2009)

Yeh, I'm playing on the 6 USD tables, so about 10 bucks a pop which is ok.

Have come 2nd the last 3 matches.  Getting the hang of their all or nothing styles.  A lot of the guys are easy beats, but some are extremelly good.

Here we go, for a 180 person tournament!  ha ha. 

Surprised nobody here is on Poker Stars.  Trying to work out which tournament I have to enter to get a crack at the world series.  Would cop a beating there!


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## Gundini (16 February 2009)

Yes, some friends of mine play on Poker Stars, pretty good feedback, but they are all good!

Best is playing a tourney at the local, can't beat that...


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## jersey10 (16 February 2009)

MRC, why did you choose Poker Stars? I have never tried any other than pokerroom because thats what one of my mates used to play on.  Are you keen to get through to one of the big tournaments via a satellite event?


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## MRC & Co (16 February 2009)

jersey10 said:


> MRC, why did you choose Poker Stars? I have never tried any other than pokerroom because thats what one of my mates used to play on.  Are you keen to get through to one of the big tournaments via a satellite event?




I just heard it's the biggest and the best.  

It's where Joe won to qualify for the World Series.  

Plus a few of my mates play there.

I would be keen to get through to one of the big tournaments, but I imagine that would be a long way off, plus, always need a bit of luck.  This is more just a bit of fun, to go with the trading.  If I can make a buck or two off it, then all the better.    Played a guy who went in the European Championships, and there is definately a big difference between the pros and the wanna bes (such as myself).

Still in the 180 man tournament, winner gets like $300, so worth a crack!


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## Ageo (17 February 2009)

Yeh im on pokerstars, depends on what tourneys you want to enter they have em all from freerolls (the tourneys your talking about) to payed satellites etc..... but i prefer playing live matches (at the tables) then online.


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## Phillip (17 February 2009)

I am at poker stars every Saturday morning in the $11 tournament ($30,000 guaranteed) tournament that starts about 10.30 am.


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## MRC & Co (17 February 2009)

Ageo said:


> Yeh im on pokerstars, depends on what tourneys you want to enter they have em all from freerolls (the tourneys your talking about) to payed satellites etc..... but i prefer playing live matches (at the tables) then online.




Freeroles, as in, free to enter and top place or places get free entry into payed satellites?  Sorry, not familiar with the whole poker jargon.

Edit:  Talked to a couple players.  They say it's better to enter the small paid tourneys on Poker Stars for entry into satellites so you don't compete with all the thousands of amateurs trying to get in through freeroles......


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## jersey10 (17 February 2009)

So MRC are you a 'feel' guy or a 'maths' guy?


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## Dowdy (17 February 2009)

I just play the free play games and freeroll tournaments. I'm doing pretty good in the free play - up 230k


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## julius (17 February 2009)

MRC, I play on Full Tilt. Have played on Poker Stars before, but prefer the interface of FTP.

Pretty much only play NL Heads Up.


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## jersey10 (17 February 2009)

julius said:


> MRC, I play on Full Tilt. Have played on Poker Stars before, but prefer the interface of FTP.
> 
> Pretty much only play NL Heads Up.




I'm not that much of a fan of heads up, i reckon it becomes more about luck and less about skill compared to a full table.


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## Largesse (17 February 2009)

i play semi-regularly on pokerstars.

usually $1-2 NL 

i have one rule which is cash out if current account balane is 3x buy in.

usually buy in for 200, and i reckon my cash out ratio is bout 60:40. 

so i guess i'm winning


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## jersey10 (17 February 2009)

i knew there would be a lot of traders who are poker players, lots of similarities.  Might be time to set up a regular game for ASF members.


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## MRC & Co (17 February 2009)

Excuse my ignorance, but what is heads up Julius?  

And how do you play cash games Largesse on Poker Stars?  Which tabs do I go to in the lobby?  That's one thing that annoys me with the sit and go, sometimes you get huge chips up and end up loosing them!  

Jersey, yeah, I'll be up for a ASF table or even just all go into the same tournament so I can watch you guys when I get knocked out!  ha ha.


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## jersey10 (17 February 2009)

MRC & Co said:


> Excuse my ignorance, but what is heads up Julius?




one on one


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## MRC & Co (17 February 2009)

jersey10 said:


> one on one




Ah, fark that.  I usually end up 2nd on sit and go cause I suck at the heads up part!

Won my last match though, thankfully, was starting to worry!  The guy was an easy bluff luckily!  ha ha.


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## jersey10 (17 February 2009)

MRC & Co said:


> Ah, fark that.  I usually end up 2nd on sit and go cause I suck at the heads up part!
> 
> Won my last match though, thankfully, was starting to worry!  The guy was an easy bluff luckily!  ha ha.




Yes the less players on the table the stronger you need to play your cards.  For example a Ace rag (ace with a low card) is a fairly weak hand on a ten person table but a monster heads up.


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## Largesse (17 February 2009)

i dont have the application open in front of me (currently at work)
but i'm pretty sure you select No Limit, then cash or ring game (furthest left tab) then you just select your limits in the filters and away you go.

need to be careful with cash games though. it pays to play tight as a nun's.....


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## Dowdy (17 February 2009)

jersey10 said:


> i knew there would be a lot of traders who are poker players, lots of similarities.  Might be time to set up a regular game for ASF members.




*I'll be definitely up for that!*

 I used to have a game with regular poker players but one of them dropped out and then we didn't have enough players to keep it running but if a few members here want to have a game then i can get it running again.

 Based in Melbourne Western suburbs. $20 per game, gets you about 20-25K chips. No re-buys. Money is usually split between 1st and 2nd (3rd gets their money back if there are plenty players). Games usually last about 2 hours so even if your not that good, $20 for 2 hours is good value!

Just let me know if your serious about having a game.


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## jersey10 (17 February 2009)

Dowdy said:


> *I'll be definitely up for that!*
> 
> I used to have a game with regular poker players but one of them dropped out and then we didn't have enough players to keep it running but if a few members here want to have a game then i can get it running again.
> 
> ...




I was thinking an online game.  Probably won't have enough people in the same area to organise a live game.  I know on pokerroom you can set up your own games and give a password to the players so they are the only ones who can join the table.  I'd assume you could do this on most other sites as well.


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## Gundini (17 February 2009)

jersey10 said:


> I was thinking an online game.  Probably won't have enough people in the same area to organise a live game.  I know on pokerroom you can set up your own games and give a password to the players so they are the only ones who can join the table.  I'd assume you could do this on most other sites as well.




I'm all in dat for sure. 

Private login, cool.... 3 month tourney.... Love it!


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## noirua (17 February 2009)

The poker stars in general do well, even being given appearance fees. Gambling is however an illness in all its forms as it becomes more and more compulsive, especially online. Online gambling should be banned!
Even President George Bush took steps against online gambling and he is a risk driven oilman.


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## jersey10 (17 February 2009)

noirua said:


> The poker stars in general do well, even being given appearance fees. Gambling is however an illness in all its forms as it becomes more and more compulsive, especially online. Online gambling should be banned!




point taken re: gambling, however i do believe poker is considered to be classed more as a game of skill as compared to gambling in games such as roulette etc. as found in this Colorado court room

http://www.pokernews.com/news/2009/01/poker-deemed-not-gambling-colorado-case-1032.htm


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## xyzedarteerf (18 February 2009)

jersey10 said:


> i knew there would be a lot of traders who are poker players, lots of similarities.  Might be time to set up a regular game for ASF members.




just post it here what site,when,times etc... count me in.


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## xyzedarteerf (18 February 2009)

Dowdy said:


> *I'll be definitely up for that!*
> 
> I used to have a game with regular poker players but one of them dropped out and then we didn't have enough players to keep it running but if a few members here want to have a game then i can get it running again.
> 
> ...




is this no Limit games? btw for those interested Foxtel has Professional Poker Tour tomorrow at 10.30pm Fox8 , with Daniel Negreanu (kid poker) as chip leader.


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## BentRod (18 February 2009)

> playing turbo texas holdem with no limits.




I haven't played on Pokerstars but sounds like you are talking about sit and Go's with ultra fast blinds??

If that is the case best off avoiding them (from my experience).
When the blinds are going that fast it turns into an all in luck fest 

Cash games are the best.

Use the profits for the tournaments.


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## BentRod (18 February 2009)

noirua said:


> The poker stars in general do well, even being given appearance fees. Gambling is however an illness in all its forms as it becomes more and more compulsive, especially online. Online gambling should be banned!
> Even President George Bush took steps against online gambling and he is a risk driven oilman.




Poker is a skill game.

Anyone that says it is gambling does not know how to play the game.


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## BentRod (18 February 2009)

xyzedarteerf said:


> is this no Limit games? btw for those interested Foxtel has Professional Poker Tour tomorrow at 10.30pm Fox8 , with Daniel Negreanu (kid poker) as chip leader.




Regarding great poker shows to watch, Hgh Stakes Poker is without doubt the best poker show ever made.

There were four seasons made and I've watched every episode at least 4 times

One of the best hands I have ever seen:


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## So_Cynical (18 February 2009)

BentRod said:


> Poker is a skill game.
> 
> Anyone that says it is gambling does not know how to play the game.




Interested to know what "skills" are required to get a pair of sevens to beat a flush?


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## xyzedarteerf (18 February 2009)

BentRod said:


> Regarding great poker shows to watch, Hgh Stakes Poker is without doubt the best poker show ever made.
> 
> There were four seasons made and I've watched every episode at least 4 times
> 
> One of the best hands I have ever seen:




I like watching Daniel play poker his such an entertainer i'm currently playing his PC game called Stacked  one the best poker games made i think. too bad the online multiplayer is now offline.


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## BentRod (18 February 2009)

So_Cynical said:


> Interested to know what "skills" are required to get a pair of sevens to beat a flush?




You raise the Sevens four times the blind from the gun pre flop so the chap holding Ace rag one back from the button lays em down.

Now thats skill


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## BentRod (18 February 2009)

xyzedarteerf said:


> I like watching Daniel play poker his such an entertainer i'm currently playing his PC game called Stacked  one the best poker games made i think. too bad the online multiplayer is now offline.




I agree mate, he is a brilliant player, one of the best ever.

I have seen him call the exact hole cards of people at his table...spooky.


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## xyzedarteerf (18 February 2009)

BentRod said:


> You raise the Sevens four times the blind from the gun pre flop so the chap holding Ace rag one back from the button lays em down.
> 
> Now thats skill




that's the beauty of No Limit you can bluff , only those who have played poker long enough will understand the skill involved.


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## xyzedarteerf (18 February 2009)

BentRod said:


> I have seen him call the exact hole cards of people at his table...spooky.




yup i have seen him do this a couple of times. i think his ability of observation gives him an edge against other players.


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## Ozpoker (18 February 2009)

Hi Guys

Just noticed this thread and thought I may be able to help you.

I have access to Pokerstars backend, so I can set up private tourneys for you.

Just give me the dates and times and passwords and I'll set them up.

All I ask is that anyone who is opens a new account there uses the pokerstars marketing code *XXXXX* when they set it up.  It'll give you access to special bonuses and make you eligible for the  5 $2000 freerolls we run there every month plus others at different times.

Don't know about what your movements are like, but I have found private tourneys on Tues / Wed nights starting about 8:30pm/9:30pm usually suit the majority.

The minimum private tourney buy in is $5 and you can play any game like Omaha, razz or Horse; but if most of you are juts starting out it would be better to make it NL Holdem.

Give me some dates and times.


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## Gundini (18 February 2009)

Ozpoker said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> 
> Don't know about what your movements are like, but I have found private tourneys on Tues / Wed nights starting about 8:30pm/9:30pm usually suit the majority.
> ...




 Sounds good ozpoker...

8-8.30pm AEST sounds good to me. I am in Brisbane, so 7-7.30pm (no daylight saving) works well for most canetoads I would think. Tue/Wed perfect!


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## noirua (18 February 2009)

BentRod said:


> Poker is a skill game.
> 
> Anyone that says it is gambling does not know how to play the game.



If you play the game with no money or for any reward, it could be classed as not gambling, except for a compulsive gambler. If money is involved or the likely hood of loss of any kind it is gambling, NO IFS OR BUTS, that's it.


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## prawn_86 (18 February 2009)

noirua said:


> If you play the game with no money or for any reward, it could be classed as not gambling, except for a compulsive gambler. If money is involved or the likely hood of loss of any kind it is gambling, NO IFS OR BUTS, that's it.




Same as trading shares then?


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## noirua (18 February 2009)

prawn_86 said:


> Same as trading shares then?



Not officially classed as gambling, at least that was so up to 30 years ago, debatable these days.


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## MRC & Co (18 February 2009)

Gundini said:


> Sounds good ozpoker...
> 
> 8-8.30pm AEST sounds good to me. I am in Brisbane, so 7-7.30pm (no daylight saving) works well for most canetoads I would think. Tue/Wed perfect!




Sounds good to me.  Nearly won a big tourney last night.  Bent, yeh, the blinds raise ultra fast with turbo tournaments, I wouldn't say it's a lot more luck, it just forces a different style of play.  But still need to wait until you hit decent cards generally, though can't sit on your hands all night and try and check/fold your way onto the final table.  A few guys will get lucky though I find at first and end up with a lot of chips, and call most things, so best to spot them and when your on their table, wait for some very good cards and try and get them all-in.  Very good win %.  Others are easy beats on the bluff when you have chips to throw away, they wait so damn long to get good cards to call, they are eaten alive by the blinds and ante, which you take most of.  Some make it far by waiting and being so cautious, but are easy rips when the tables get low on players.  

Noirua, you obviously have no skills at either Poker or Trading.  Sorry, just the truth.


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## jersey10 (18 February 2009)

So_Cynical said:


> Interested to know what "skills" are required to get a pair of sevens to beat a flush?




don't get me wrong, there is a big element of luck in poker.  Much less luck involved in being a profitable poker player over the long term.  On any given day you can play well calculate your pot odds and implied odds bla bla bla bla and still get beat - no doubt.  However over the next thousand games if you are any good at the maths of poker and you can read how people bet you will come out in front (even if you are rubbish at reading others and are a pure 'maths guy' you will still come out in front).  Very similar to trading - you can do great analysis, totally be in tune with the instrument your trading and get murdered in any given trading session. However if you continue to do good analysis, money management etc. Over the long term you will be a winner.


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## Trembling Hand (18 February 2009)

So_Cynical said:


> Interested to know what "skills" are required to get a pair of sevens to beat a flush?




I guess its the same as landing the 10 bagger in trading. The skill is surviving long enough to catch them often.


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## cuttlefish (18 February 2009)

I've been playing at pokerroom 'cos Jersey or someone mentioned it in another thread.   Definitely seeing how much skill comes into it the more I play and really starting to enjoy it.   So much psychological discipline required, plus of course knowing the odds etc., but there's much more to it than the maths.  

The luck definitely comes into play and can make the ride forward in a tournament easier, but a good player should be able to place well in a tournament regardless of luck imo.

Have won a few smaller 10 handed tourneys and also won heaps of 10 handed TILT games and a few 50 handed TILT games as well.

Had my best placing last night in a larger one got 36 position out of 411 starters in a $5.50 standard hold'em tourney - got me a small payout.

I learn a lesson from every beat - and have no doubt there is a lot of skill in placing in these tournaments.

I enjoy the heads up or short handed aspect of the game as well, though usually only end up there as a result of winning a 10 handed starter.   

Being good at short handed and heads-up helps a lot in getting some money if you get down to the final three or four in a TILT game - particularly if its winner takes all.


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## jersey10 (18 February 2009)

Ozpoker said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> Just noticed this thread and thought I may be able to help you.
> 
> ...




OzPoker,

Can you set up the following tournament for us:

Every Wednesday night 8pm EDT (7pm Brisbane time).
$5 No limit texas hold em tournament.
Tourament Name: ASF Weekly
Tournament Password: trader

Can you have unlimited entries? So if we have 30 people here who want to play eventually we can start with 3 tables? or is it limited to one table?

Is there a function on PokerStars that we can keep records of the tournament each week and view stats like number of games played, win loss records of each player for this tournament, etc.

Hopefully you can set it up for tonight, otherwise we can hold the first game next week.

Anyone from this forum who joins Poker Stars if possible use the same username as you have here so we know who we are putting the bad beats on   Also leave a message on this thread so we know approximately how many people will be playing and we can start the trash talk early


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## MRC & Co (18 February 2009)

ha ha, yeh, sounds good to me Jersey.

I'm gonna whoop your azzes!    Beginners luck!


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## prawn_86 (18 February 2009)

jersey10 said:


> $5 No limit texas hold em tournament.




That means a $5 buy in yeh? Or is that $5 per bet?


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## Largesse (18 February 2009)

he means buy in 

but the minimum is $10+1 USD for a private game.

10 buy in, 1 commission to pokerstars


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## Ageo (18 February 2009)

Well if im free on those nights ill definately jump in.


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## MRC & Co (18 February 2009)

Yeh, $11USD is fine with me.


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## jersey10 (18 February 2009)

prawn_86 said:


> That means a $5 buy in yeh? Or is that $5 per bet?




$5 per bet, now your talking my language - cash games.

but for now maybe a $5 buy in for the whole tournament, or whatever the minimum buy in is.


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## Gundini (18 February 2009)

I think it will be great playing against fellow ASFers.

Even though I don't know you guys and gals, I still feel a kind of mateship, as we go through this global turmoil trying to help each other out along the way!

I will download the software, and deposit some cash as soon as we get the team together, and I will try not to take all of your money in one hit


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## jersey10 (18 February 2009)

well i've managed to turn $50 into $56 over the last hour or so... what a superstar 

i must say i'm not overly impressed with the PokerStars platform at all.  Pokerroom.com leaves it for dead based on functionality and graphics in my opinion


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## MRC & Co (18 February 2009)

ha ha, better than me.  I've managed to turn 50USD into 40USD.

Been playing the 180 person tournaments and JUST missing out on the cash cut.  

Had tripple kings with a queen kicker, and the other guy happened to have the other king and hit a 4 so a full house.  WTF!!!  

Been playing a couple tables at the same time to make it more interesting.  I'll win one of these big tourneys one of these days!!!  

Went on a 10 player sit and go just then and won it, luckily.


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## jersey10 (18 February 2009)

MRC & Co said:


> ha ha, better than me.  I've managed to turn 50USD into 40USD.
> 
> Been playing the 180 person tournaments and JUST missing out on the cash cut.
> 
> ...




thats a tough beat.

i'm playing in a 10c/25c cash game.  whats your username MRC? i'll try and hunt you down and take all your money


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## cuttlefish (18 February 2009)

We'll have to start a bad beats thread.

In the tournament I got 36 out of 400+ last night I had 18th highest chip stack before I went out - went all-in with KK and my opponent came up with A-10os - an ace came through for them. Not a bad beat - pretty fair race imo - but would have put me in a bloody good position in the tournament if I'd won it.


In a hand tonight I folded a K-6 pre-flop ... and watched the hand unfold into a three way all-in.   One of them had pocket kings which improved to full house  K's full of 7's by the river.   Guess what it was beaten by .... 7777 (four of a kind)!  lol.    Glad I folded that King preflop.


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## Ageo (18 February 2009)

Nothing like a bad beat when you move all in with A-A and the guy calling has 2-2. Flop comes A-K-K (full house for me). Turn - 2 River 2 (quads for the calling station).

It was for a live pot $450


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## cuttlefish (19 February 2009)

Ageo said:
			
		

> Nothing like a bad beat when you move all in with A-A and the guy calling has 2-2. Flop comes A-K-K (full house for me). Turn - 2 River 2 (quads for the calling station).
> 
> It was for a live pot $450




lol ... though sometimes you find yourself all-in with 2's - I did tonight for various reasons.  I called it post flop ... my opponent had AKs (clubs) and hadn't paired yet so the two's were the weak favourite.   I was in front going into the river as well and the river threw out a 2 ... yay trips! ... except it was a club and gave my opponent a flush


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## Ozpoker (19 February 2009)

Not sure what to do here -

Posted the details for next week but admin deleted it as spam.

Perhaps if someone has some pull they can get the post restored?

I don't want to post it again, as they'll just delete it ....and probably me.


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## Joe Blow (19 February 2009)

If Ozpoker wants to set up poker tournaments for ASF members, *without the use of affiliate codes*, he is more than welcome.



> 9. You are forbidden to use Aussie Stock Forums for commercial activity of any kind without receiving prior permission from the administrator. *This includes the use of affiliate referral codes*. Those who spam their products and/or services on Aussie Stock Forums will have their accounts permanently suspended.




https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/content.php?r=119-ASF-Code-of-Conduct


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## Ozpoker (19 February 2009)

Oh well - all I can say is next week is set up for you as per request

As someone else suggested Ongame sites such as pokerroom, or Bwin will let you set up your own tourneys without needing special access.

Unfortunately most people prefer to play at stars


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## jersey10 (19 February 2009)

cuttlefish said:


> We'll have to start a bad beats thread.
> 
> In the tournament I got 36 out of 400+ last night I had 18th highest chip stack before I went out - went all-in with KK and my opponent came up with A-10os - an ace came through for them. Not a bad beat - pretty fair race imo - but would have put me in a bloody good position in the tournament if I'd won it.




KK against A 10 you are a big favourite preflop probably 70% so you were definitely unlucky there assuming you were all in pre flop.  I did $50 in a cash game tonight i had the full house beaten by 4 of a kind but to be fair he was ahead the whole way.  99 V my 45 suited. called his 3Xbb raise heads up pot i had position. flop 4j9 he check i bet half pot he raises double my bet i call. turn is a four i think i'm ahead but i'm not. he checks i bet half pot he calls. river is a 9 so i've hit the boat and old mate has hit his four nines in goes all the money bet, raise, reraise, all in, call.  bad read by me i suppose a raise of 3 x bb preflop from mid position is quite appropriate for a pair of nines. i put him on A J after he called my bet on the flop.


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## jersey10 (19 February 2009)

Ozpoker said:


> Oh well - all I can say is next week is set up for you as per request
> 
> As someone else suggested Ongame sites such as pokerroom, or Bwin will let you set up your own tourneys without needing special access.
> 
> Unfortunately most people prefer to play at stars




thanks Ozpoker. will that be there every week or just next week?


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## cuttlefish (19 February 2009)

jersey10 said:


> KK against A 10 you are a big favourite preflop probably 70% so you were definitely unlucky there assuming you were all in pre flop.  I did $50 in a cash game tonight i had the full house beaten by 4 of a kind but to be fair he was ahead the whole way.  99 V my 45 suited. called his 3Xbb raise heads up pot i had position. flop 4j9 he check i bet half pot he raises double my bet i call. turn is a four i think i'm ahead but i'm not. he checks i bet half pot he calls. river is a 9 so i've hit the boat and old mate has hit his four nines in goes all the money bet, raise, reraise, all in, call.  bad read by me i suppose a raise of 3 x bb preflop from mid position is quite appropriate for a pair of nines. i put him on A J after he called my bet on the flop.





yeah I was all-in pre-flop - always amazes me how aces come out ... except when I need them!    

lol thats a bad beat on the full house - I'd could imagine possibly a 9's full or jacks full coming back but not a four of a kind!  Interesting that he checked the turn, wonder what he put you on - given he had pocket 9's he might have been worried about you holding pocket jacks.


Holy cow and as I was typing this I was just playing a pair of jacks with Q kicker against an A-10 with no hand - got put all-in post flop and was looking good. Then I scored a backdoor flush Q high on the river ... they beat me with a Jack high _straight-flush!!! _ 

Their 10 of hearts kicker on the ace gave them the straight flush with the 789Jh on the board.


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## MRC & Co (19 February 2009)

ha ha ha ha, some of these bad beats are terrible!!!

I know of a guy who is a professional and won't play online due to the bad beats of the 'random computer dealer'.

Still though, if your good, there is money to be made.  

I'm in for the tournament nxt Wednesday.  I'll see you boys (and ladies if any are up for it) there.  Maybe also be on ASF at the same tine just encase anyone gets lost trying to find the room (which may be me  ).


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## cuttlefish (19 February 2009)

How's the pokerstars software on your PC's - no ill effects?

I lose connections every now and then with the pokerroom site  (usually just after I've put a third of my stack on an opening bet with high pocket pairs  - not sure if my internet connections flaky or there is something that the software or my firewall config is doing that causes it to hang but a bit wary about putting more on.   (I'm a bit suspicious that web iress is the culprit as well but no evidence thus far - just get a hang on my broadband connection and have to do a forced shutdown reboot of the whole PC).

If I'm game to add more poker software I'll join in.


----------



## MRC & Co (19 February 2009)

Cuttle,

I have no idea about half of what you said, ha ha, sorry, when it comes to IT or software I am as clueless as a newb is to trading  .  But yeh, my connection to Poker Stars drops out sometimes.  Only happened once badly so far which cost me a good hand.  

On that note, I'm off to hit the tables, made a little trading today, so double or nothing?


----------



## xyzedarteerf (20 February 2009)

I just thought it would be a good reminder for people playing with real money on this poker sites. 
Some of this sites can be abused by cheaters using multiple computers using different ISP's therefore having unique IP addresses so they can get away with playing with multiple accounts on one table. You can be on a table with only 5 players when in reality your only playing against 2. Any tech savvy individual can set this up.

I really rather play freeroll when online i don't trust the programing of the card shuffle plus as I have explained above...


----------



## xyzedarteerf (20 February 2009)

Ageo said:


> Nothing like a bad beat when you move all in with A-A and the guy calling has 2-2. Flop comes A-K-K (full house for me). Turn - 2 River 2 (quads for the calling station).
> 
> It was for a live pot $450




the card shuffle algorithm program is very questionable.
this is exactly my point, what are the odds of this happening in a real game. no one calls an all in bet on a pair deuce think about it.


----------



## MRC & Co (20 February 2009)

Yeh, agree with the above.

I was on a table last night, final 3, and I swear on my life I was playing the same guy.  Needless to say, I was chip leader by a mile and got royally fukced over.


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## cuttlefish (20 February 2009)

woohoo - scored 4th place out of 369 starters in a $5.50 tournament.  Was chip leader for quite a while and should have been able to place better but still my best result so far.


In terms of shuffling algorithms - you see it all in happen live play as well in terms of what comes out of the deck so I wouldn't necessarily blame the shuffling algorithm.  Online you play a lot more games so you see a lot more stuff but live games deliver plenty of unexpected outcomes as well.

In relation to all-in with pocket 2's there's plenty of situations where this would make sense to do - and plenty of situations where it would be completely stupid.


If there's people colluding in a game I guess that just adds to the challenge.  They still don't know what your cards are but yeah if there's 4 people colluding against 1 then they've got a big advantage in knowing more about the cards that aren't left in the deck.  I can't really see this happening so easily in a tournament though - they'd all have to end up on the same starting table - it'd be easier for them to do it with cash games imo.


----------



## xyzedarteerf (20 February 2009)

cuttlefish said:


> woohoo - scored 4th place out of 369 starters in a $5.50 tournament.  Was chip leader for quite a while and should have been able to place better but still my best result so far.




as long as your having fun then that's all good.



> In terms of shuffling algorithms - you see it all in happen live play as well in terms of what comes out of the deck so I wouldn't necessarily blame the shuffling algorithm.  Online you play a lot more games so you see a lot more stuff but live games deliver plenty of unexpected outcomes as well.




check out this link how an aussie uncovered online poker cheating.



> If there's people colluding in a game I guess that just adds to the challenge.  They still don't know what your cards are but yeah if there's 4 people colluding against 1 then they've got a big advantage in knowing more about the cards that aren't left in the deck.  I can't really see this happening so easily in a tournament though - they'd all have to end up on the same starting table - it'd be easier for them to do it with cash games imo.




well it does happen when there's money on the play there's the temptation to cheat. Pokerstars however  is i believe the only online poker website that has an independent third party software auditor , i think there called Cigital there the guys that cracked PlanetPoker's dealing algorithm.

anywho i'll leave you with a qoute from Mike Sexton.

“May all your cards be live and your pots be monsters!”


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## cuttlefish (20 February 2009)

xyzedarteerf said:


> as long as your having fun then that's all good.




Yeah just having fun - only $5.50 to enter - was four hours of playing to get to fourth place - so pretty cheap entertainment.   With these ones if you finish in roughly the top 10% of starters you get a payout of some sort - so even if you don't go too well you often get a payout and usually play for an hour or two.

The full tilt games are where you can blow money pretty quickly - they're often over within 10 minutes - though you can get a small edge even in the tilt games with some strategy - but their mostly a gamble.


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## Dowdy (21 February 2009)

Dowdy said:


> *I'll be definitely up for that!*
> 
> I used to have a game with regular poker players but one of them dropped out and then we didn't have enough players to keep it running but if a few members here want to have a game then i can get it running again.
> 
> ...





Just so everyone knows they are no-limit holdem. $20 buyin gets you 20k chips. Blinds are 100-200 and they go up every 15min

I'll only need 3-4 people to get the games running again. Real poker is alot better and more fun then online poker. 

Private message me if your interested. Western suburbs in VIC


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## MRC & Co (22 February 2009)

Some of these online beats are really starting to get to me now!

Grinding away, waiting for the great hand to play, and then you get burnt cause they hit some BS straight or flush on the beat!


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## nizar (22 February 2009)

MRC & Co said:


> Some of these online beats are really starting to get to me now!
> 
> Grinding away, waiting for the great hand to play, and then you get burnt cause they hit some BS straight or flush on the beat!




Do you wanna hear a bad beat?

I had 99 so raised it preflop to 4x bb.
Everyone folded, except for the chip leader, he went over the top and put me all in. His chip advantage was 3:1 probably.

Anyway, he flips over A4 off suit.
The idiot shouldnt be going all in with that hand.

Anyway so preflop I have him dominated.
The flop comes 9JK, so I have him dominated even more as I flop the set.

Then he hits nothing on the turn. BUT on the river a 4th heart comes onto the table.
I had no hearts.
His 4 was a heart.

 

Also, it seems I can never win a decent pot with KK, ever.
The last time I had it I raised and got called by one person.
The flop comes AAQ. I knew I was dominated and I was right they had AJ.


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## Stan 101 (22 February 2009)

Hey all. Thanks for the link to PokerStars. I played my third tournament today and made it through to a satellite game "Target Tournament #200904221 Buy-In: $100.00/$9.00"

I'm still reading up on what this actually means!

First two tournaments I was knocked out when I had 3 of a kind on both occasions and in both cases I was beaten by 3 aces... Uncanny..


I'd be interested in the occasional game if one is organised.

cheers,


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## cuttlefish (24 February 2009)

MRC & Co said:


> Some of these online beats are really starting to get to me now!
> 
> Grinding away, waiting for the great hand to play, and then you get burnt cause they hit some BS straight or flush on the beat!





I know its a matter of how you play them but sometimes the beats are pretty painful.

I had pocket kings on the button - everyone folded before me so I decided to slow play them and just call because I wanted action and didn't want to scare the big blind out of the pot. (blinds were high and small blind folded, big blind checked of course).   

Flop came 4 10 8  rainbow - a small bet came in - put it as possible straight draw - or maybe they've paired one of the cards and are testing to see if I come back at them - I checked to represent a weak hand.   Turn came out a Jack - got a bigger bet back - size of the pot - either backing their pair from the flop more confidently due to my check or possibly paired the jack - either way no challenge for the kings.  Still no paint - possible straight but unlikely I thought, so I checked again thinking they were happily digging their own grave on top pair while putting me on A high.  River came in another 4.    So now there's two 4's and a jack.  And their hand of course was ... J-4 giving them a boat.   I guess the lesson is you've got to be careful with the big blind because their hand is always a bit of a wildcard.

I know I should have heavily raised on the flop and cut it off but I wanted to extract as much as I could out of them.  Should not be so greedy in future.   But whats the odds on someone starting with J-4 against pocket kings flopping a boat by the river - has to be slim.



You do see these sorts of bad beats in live play as well though.

Anyway - lesson learned - defend the pair and take the small win if you can and at least you'll get paid the right odds if they call your large bet.

If I'd bet pre-flop all I would have won were the blinds - it would have pushed them out (though they might have thought I was trying to buy the blinds and put in a one re-raise I suppose).  Raising heavily post flop would likely have cut it off because all they had was a pair of 4's on the flop.  But a weaker pair is exactly what I put them on - never expecting their weak pair would improve to trips and they would also pair their other hole card to get the boat.

Its always interesting how the cards fall anyway ... frustrating as it can be sometimes.  I guess the other lessson is to always expect the unexpected but if you were always second guessing the most freakish possible outcome you'd fold every hand.


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## xyzedarteerf (24 February 2009)

cuttlefish said:


> I had pocket kings on the button - everyone folded before me so I decided to slow play them and just call because I wanted action and didn't want to scare the big blind out of the pot. (blinds were high and small blind folded, big blind checked of course).




sometimes it pays to be aggressive  that's how most poker pro's play the game for a living. but knowing when to be aggressive is an ART.

i'm currently registered with PokerStars playing in freemoney, if anyone is interested playing playmoney maybe we can organize a table with the help of OzPoker.


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## nizar (24 February 2009)

I just called an all-in with pocket 10s post-flop which was 4,6,9 with 2 diamonds.

The guy who pushed had pocket 5s.
One was a diamonds.

Guess what the next two cards were?

YEP. Running diamonds


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## Shrewd Crude (24 February 2009)

> ok-poker...
> Hi Guys
> 
> Just noticed this thread and thought I may be able to help you.
> ...




hey oz poker and others... im keen as for a game next week... if someone jacks it up, and either PM's me... or posts the details here then im a starter...
If we cant get a personalised game going on PS, then we could all agree to meet at a sit and go tornament at a particular time...
I pretty much play Pot Limit Omaha only...
done pretty well at it live, but only ho hum online, as I will win off Omaha and give it to texas... not by being a donkey... play tight and all, but not so good if I lose a big hand mid torny, or bad beat...

Last week played in the $8.80 Omaha, 250 people...
got down to 20th top 10 stack... and came up against chip leader in one pot...
I had pocket kings, rag rag... he had ace ace 6 10... flop came k q 8.. rainbow... so I checked and he bet pot... he also raised pot preflop, but ise wise to just limp in...
f flopped the nuts...
so any way, he pot the flop, I pushed all in and he insta called...
turn 7 river 9...
6 7 8 9 10... worst beat ever, and I would have been chip leader... arrrghhhh....
jack something up and I will play...
Omaha real keen...
peace...

.^sc


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## MRC & Co (24 February 2009)

nizar said:


> I just called an all-in with pocket 10s post-flop which was 4,6,9 with 2 diamonds.
> 
> The guy who pushed had pocket 5s.
> One was a diamonds.
> ...




LOL, yeh, I just played on a HUGE pot table, only 9 guys but a big entry fee.

First hand, hit pocket Qs, so raised heavily to get most out, one guy came over the top so went all in on the first hand.  He turned, pocket 5s.  But before getting excited, I knew he woud hit some BS on the computer generated beat, on the flop (didn't even have to wait for the turn or river), he hit another 5.


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## Shrewd Crude (24 February 2009)

someone said they were amazed how often an ace comes on the flop...
I tend to agree eah...
aces always come, to the point were idiots will play them with silly little 4-5 kickers... chumps...
Im sick of playing kings and queens preflop...
my strong preflop odds get savaged by a 2 or 3 outer...
this is why I play omaha.. a much better game, and chumps are generally willing to give you their chips for fairly average hands, and non nuts...

.^sc


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## cuttlefish (24 February 2009)

Anyone played the full-tilt games which are pretty much an all-in gambling fest?  (though a bit of strategy and a good heads up game can still deliver results if combined with a a healthy dose of luck).

when you play those you realise that any multi-way all-in is almost certain to draw out an oddball beat - though high pockets do usually stand up pretty well and pocket aces are pretty resilient.  (but my pocket jacks have drawn out a trip on the flop against aces enough times for me to know the risks of betting these hands all the way pre-flop).


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## Wysiwyg (25 February 2009)

I downloaded the Poker Stars game this morning and am having gammon bets at this familiarisation stage.Finding it hard not to be reckless with o.p.m.  Something different and good fun.Yeah.


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## xyzedarteerf (25 February 2009)

Wysiwyg said:


> I downloaded the Poker Stars game this morning and am having gammon bets at this familiarisation stage.Finding it hard not to be reckless with o.p.m.  Something different and good fun.Yeah.




absolutely its good fun...don't get hook now


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## xyzedarteerf (12 May 2009)

had some fun playing play money today, and also made use of the instant replay feature which is still in beta.

any way I raised with a 4 8 on the Flop as I got Set, but got re-raised for 2k which I called of course,


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## xyzedarteerf (12 May 2009)

scored an 8 in the Turn, which I raised to 5k bet. 2 players called. brought a 23k pot.


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## xyzedarteerf (12 May 2009)

a 10 comes on the River I moved all in at around 30k+ I got called by one player. monster pot at around 85k, I WON of course, the other player left in disgust makes me wonder what he got though, a big pair maybe?


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## wtang89 (12 May 2009)

LOL,

     This is why i don't play on the low limit/play money tables . Too many random plays. But yeah i play at the 5/10 or 10/25c NL tables, usually on 6-10 tables. Up a little, poker is a little thing on the side while im waiting for my shares to spike


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## So_Cynical (12 May 2009)

i got 4 - 8s the other nite...won 16K (play money)

ive got the dot-net software...im assuming in need the dot-com software to get the replay feature?


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## Mr J (12 May 2009)

> this is why I play omaha.. a much better game, and chumps are generally willing to give you their chips for fairly average hands, and non nuts..




Omaha 8? It's even better, since hands are two ways. Pot-limit Omaha must have been the easiest game to beat when I was playing.



> This is why i don't play on the low limit/play money tables . Too many random plays.




They are more profitable though, at least in terms of bb/hand.


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## xyzedarteerf (13 May 2009)

So_Cynical said:


> i got 4 - 8s the other nite...won 16K (play money)
> 
> ive got the dot-net software...im assuming in need the dot-com software to get the replay feature?




yes i wondered the same thing when i first played at pokerstars, uninstall the existing .net software and go to the pokerstars dot com and download that version makes you choose your own Avatar as well, takes a couple of days for the photo to become active.


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## Pappon (13 May 2009)

I had my 4 of a kind beaten by a straight flush shame i wasn't on party poker i would have got the bad beat jackpot there usually like $100K + i needed a new monitor after that too


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## Wysiwyg (10 September 2009)

I`ve never been much of a poker fan but when the lads on ASF started a competition I played with play money at Poker Stars for a while and about a week ago played with real money. Needless to say I lost at the tables until I found Sit n Go where I won a seat into a $250 000 prize pool game scheduled for next week. Trouble is there are thousands of other players too.  Also read about games going for 14 or more hours to win. I`m up for it though and will give it my best shot.


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## xyzedarteerf (11 September 2009)

Wysiwyg said:


> I`ve never been much of a poker fan but when the lads on ASF started a competition I played with play money at Poker Stars for a while and about a week ago played with real money. Needless to say I lost at the tables until I found Sit n Go where I won a seat into a $250 000 prize pool game scheduled for next week. Trouble is there are thousands of other players too.  Also read about games going for 14 or more hours to win. I`m up for it though and will give it my best shot.




Goodluck lets us know what happens...have not played for months now, just lost interest in it.


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## Wysiwyg (14 September 2009)

Failed miserably. One player at the table was getting b.s. hands and controlled the play from open. My best hand was a Jack high flush and got beaten by the Ace high flush. Will try again and hopefully get dealt some cards next time.


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## Dowdy (14 September 2009)

Wysiwyg said:


> I`ve never been much of a poker fan but when the lads on ASF started a competition I played with play money at Poker Stars for a while and about a week ago played with real money. Needless to say I lost at the tables until I found Sit n Go where I won a seat into a $250 000 prize pool game scheduled for next week. Trouble is there are thousands of other players too.  Also read about games going for 14 or more hours to win. I`m up for it though and will give it my best shot.




I played in a tournament once on pokerstars where there were 25000 players. The top 50 would make it to the next round. I played for 8 HOURS!!! and guess what i came - 51, missed out on going to the next round!


On another note, anyone play poker on facebook? There's less bad beats and they have a tournament where it's 3 rounds. If you win all 3 rounds you get 500,000 chips and a draw to win a ipod touch. I won all three a few days ago so hopefully i win the touch.

Players are alot better too on facebook.


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## white_goodman (14 September 2009)

how much money do you need for the tournaments?


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## havaiana (14 September 2009)

I used to play alot of poker, if any of you guys really want to learn the game there is alot of info on the twoplustwo forum, but like the forex forums you need to identify the good posters because most of the posters are losing players.

There are alot of simularities between trading and poker, bankroll management is very important. Although it's a skill game the edges are very small and the swings are alot bigger than people realise. It's a pretty regular accurance for regular/profitable players to lose 30 buy ins at their limit, so you should not risk more than 5% of your bankroll per game, 2% is a better risk to avoid the variance.


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## havaiana (14 September 2009)

Also if you're signing up to any of the sites make sure you look into getting rakeback before you download the application. Basically depending on the site you can usually get about 25% of the rake sent back to you. If you sign up before doing this you can't get it. Most sites offer rakeback through their affiliates, pokerstars don't but they are still one of the best sites. They have incentives through their player points instead of rakeback. Fulltilt poker is good too, you can watch the high stake internet pro's playing no limit poker with $1,000-$2,000 blinds. Pots get over US$500,000. Internet poker is a huge industry these days.

Edit: you can usually get 100% bonus on your first deposit through affiliate sites when signing up too. Just google poker deposit bonus or rakeback to find the affiliates


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## overhang (14 September 2009)

Wysiwyg said:


> Failed miserably. One player at the table was getting b.s. hands and controlled the play from open. My best hand was a Jack high flush and got beaten by the Ace high flush. Will try again and hopefully get dealt some cards next time.



Your playing way to loose by the look of it.


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## Wysiwyg (15 September 2009)

havaiana said:


> There are alot of simularities between trading and poker, bankroll management is very important. Although it's a skill game the edges are very small and the swings are alot bigger than people realise. It's a pretty regular accurance for regular/profitable players to lose 30 buy ins at their limit, so you should not risk more than 5% of your bankroll per game, 2% is a better risk to avoid the variance.




I was thinking of the drawdown during each game because I have periods of up to 20 hands where I get low probability cards dealt to me. This run of low probability deals is manageable until the blinds get big and then I`m forced to play or face the whittling. It`s managing these periods of drawdown (swing) that keeps one alive when they inevitably arrive  during every tournament.



Whiteman .... the buy-ins vary greatly.


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## overhang (15 September 2009)

Everyone has periods of being card dead but its all about looking for positions to get your weaker hands in to either steal blinds or force a weak limper to fold.


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## white_goodman (15 September 2009)

Wysiwyg said:


> Whiteman .... the buy-ins vary greatly.




never realised how fun it was till i played all night last night...

do they ever run play money comps?

also is there a site or somewhere where they have the probabilities of certain hands winning? still a bit 'green' and havent bothered calculating the percentages yet...


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## overhang (15 September 2009)

Pokerstars doesn't have that feature but there is a free program called pokerstove which is quite useful for hand odds and ranges.


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## Wysiwyg (15 September 2009)

white_goodman said:


> never realised how fun it was till i played all night last night...
> 
> do they ever run play money comps?
> 
> also is there a site or somewhere where they have the probabilities of certain hands winning? still a bit 'green' and havent bothered calculating the percentages yet...




I`m going in a tournament with a US$2.20 buy-in at 11.15 AEST. The prizepool is US$2500 of which there will be several hundred for the winner. Players can hang around for hours or go gung-ho when the blinds are small to build a decent stack before the blinds get big.


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## white_goodman (15 September 2009)

Wysiwyg said:


> I`m going in a tournament with a US$2.20 buy-in at 11.15 AEST. The prizepool is US$2500 of which there will be several hundred for the winner. Players can hang around for hours or go gung-ho when the blinds are small to build a decent stack before the blinds get big.




thats pretty cool, good luck

http://www.pokerprobability.net/calculator/texas-holdem.html just found this if anyones still noobish


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## Wysiwyg (15 September 2009)

white_goodman said:


> thats pretty cool, good luck
> 
> http://www.pokerprobability.net/calculator/texas-holdem.html just found this if anyones still noobish




I notice the number of player on the table have a large bearing on these %`s. That`s what makes it harder. If there is one card in the deck to beat you then someone seems to have it.


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## havaiana (15 September 2009)

white_goodman said:


> thats pretty cool, good luck
> 
> http://www.pokerprobability.net/calculator/texas-holdem.html just found this if anyones still noobish




Starting hand statistics's are not really that important, they depend more on your position and how many big blinds you have left more than anything else.  Also tournaments and sit n go's are different to cash games. Sit n go's and tournaments when you're low on big blinds are pretty much solved games. You will be able to find starting hand tables on the internet that will give you the basics on this. twoplustwo is the best site in my opinion, read the stickies.

A good quick way to estimate the probabilties of a draw during the hand is to multiply your number of outs by 2 and multiply that by how many cards are left.

So you have 2 clubs and you flop two clubs. you have 9 outs to a flush. 9 x 2 = 18, x 2 (two cards to come) = 36% chance of hitting flush. This is not exactly right but always close enough.
If the turn is not a club 9 outs x 2 = 18. 18 X 1 card to come = 18% etc.



			
				Wysiwyg said:
			
		

> I was thinking of the drawdown during each game because I have periods of up to 20 hands




There are also alot of coinflip type hands, you play enough you will go through stages where you will lose alot of these in a row and alot of buy ins. you might think you can just fold these hands, but when there is already money in the pot it's negative expected value to fold coinlip type hands. Sometimes it's correct to get your money in when you have a very low percentage cahnce of winning depending on the pot odds.


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## Wysiwyg (15 September 2009)

white_goodman said:


> thats pretty cool, good luck
> 
> http://www.pokerprobability.net/calculator/texas-holdem.html just found this if anyones still noobish




Knocked out at 388 from 2721 entrants. Buy-in $2.20, return on investment (gamble lol) $3.15 Payouts up to 390 so I scaped in by two.


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## white_goodman (15 September 2009)

Wysiwyg said:


> Knocked out at 388 from 2721 entrants. Buy-in $2.20, return on investment (gamble lol) $3.15 Payouts up to 390 so I scaped in by two.




good effort, what would the top prizes be, or is it dependant on number of entrants?


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## Wysiwyg (15 September 2009)

white_goodman said:


> good effort, what would the top prizes be, or is it dependant on number of entrants?




Here is the prize payout for that game. Pays to 390. Yes dependant on.



> You finished the tournament in 388th place. A USD 3.15 award has been credited to your Real Money account.


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## white_goodman (15 September 2009)

might put $100 into an account and try some tourneys out for fun....


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## Wysiwyg (15 September 2009)

white_goodman said:


> might put $100 into an account and try some tourneys out for fun....




I shouldn`t warn you off but I get alot of suss cards in that game. And I have lost hundreds in the past 2 weeks. If you play the few dollar to 10c games you could stretch it out. I played too high buy ins and with so many players *the odds are stacked against you*. 

Friendly warning.


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## white_goodman (15 September 2009)

Wysiwyg said:


> I shouldn`t warn you off but I get alot of suss cards in that game. And I have lost hundreds in the past 2 weeks. If you play the few dollar to 10c games you could stretch it out. I played too high buy ins and with so many players *the odds are stacked against you*.
> 
> Friendly warning.




i was thinking just so i could play some tournaments... isnt it just an entry fee for tournament then just play money?


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## Wysiwyg (15 September 2009)

white_goodman said:


> i was thinking just so i could play some tournaments... isnt it just an entry fee for tournament then just play money?




Yeah the tournaments are the go with real money for a few dollars buy-in. Many many players but you see I am an absolute beginner and got to a pay out level this morning.

Let me know if you get an unusual amount of bad beats.


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## shoe crew (15 September 2009)

On thursday Im playing in my biggest online tornament ever...
$320 WCOOP pot limit Omaha hi low....
I played in the $215 PLO hi and got 67th out of 2700 and went out on a hand that should have got me a final table chip stack... so gutted...
anyone else playing Wcoop?


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## white_goodman (15 September 2009)

shoe crew said:


> On thursday Im playing in my biggest online tornament ever...
> $320 WCOOP pot limit Omaha hi low....
> I played in the $215 PLO hi and got 67th out of 2700 and went out on a hand that should have got me a final table chip stack... so gutted...
> anyone else playing Wcoop?




how many have they got? number 31 tonight aint it?


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## shoe crew (15 September 2009)

hey you goodman,
theres around 40 events...
The one im in is I think event 35...
I playing in the 2000 FPP PLO hi low, tomorrow morning with 5 added seats and one through for 20000 FPPs in the pool...
I dont play texas holdem, I dont like the gambling aspect...


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## Wysiwyg (15 September 2009)

shoe crew said:


> On thursday Im playing in my biggest online tornament ever...
> $320 WCOOP pot limit Omaha hi low....
> I played in the $215 PLO hi and got 67th out of 2700 and went out on a hand that should have got me a final table chip stack... so gutted...
> anyone else playing Wcoop?



What`s your tag so I can see how you go? please.


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## shoe crew (15 September 2009)

shrewd crude
I had not been playing so good, but recently started playing plo hi low, and been doing real real well...


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## Wysiwyg (15 September 2009)

Thanks ..there is a Kee poster here by that name.


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## shoe crew (16 September 2009)

he is I and I am him...


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## Sean K (16 September 2009)

shoe crew said:


> he is I and I am him...



You are one shrewd character.


----------



## Wysiwyg (16 September 2009)

shoe crew said:


> shrewd crude
> I had not been playing so good, but recently started playing plo hi low, and been doing real real well...





I`m having a go at the 11.15 AEST tournament today in 45 minutes with $2.20 buy-in and minimum prize pool of $2500.


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## Timmy (16 September 2009)

kennas said:


> You are one shrewd character.




I see it, but I don't believe it ....


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## Shrewd Crude (21 September 2009)

shoe crew is gone... shrewd crude is back...
thank you ASF...

I placed 67th in the wcoop PLO hi 215us and got 980us,,, 50 something in the $220 nl PLO hi low, and got 650us... dribbled into the cash in the PLO hi low 320 and got 500us, and played in the 109 texas and went out in 10 mins on pocket aces... overall a pretty good wcoops for me with 3 out of 4 cashes...
on two occasions I ruined my chance of making a real big cash, through instead playing for the cash instead of playing my natural game...
twice I had the chance of making real big money and I feel let down, but still on a fairytale dream in playing plo hi low...
took some money off and bought some HTM...

.^sc


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## Shrewd Crude (21 September 2009)

hey wysiwyg,
we should play in a Poker Stars tornament tonight...
How about the $2.20 quintriple texas holdem shoot out which starts at I believe 1015pm Australian time...or it could be 915pm... 
I will also play in the Pot Limit Omaha, $8.80 which starts 15mins after...

.^sc


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## Aussiest (21 September 2009)

MRC & Co said:


> I usually end up 2nd on sit and go cause I suck at the heads up part!




Usually with heads-up, it's a matter of going all-in on a semi decent hand. On a multi-player table, you would normally play face cards or good pairs, whereas in heads up, you can afford to risk a weaker hand.


----------



## Wysiwyg (21 September 2009)

Shrewd Crude said:


> hey wysiwyg,
> we should play in a Poker Stars tornament tonight...
> .^sc





Missed it Shrewd. Nice return for 67th by the way.


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## white_goodman (22 September 2009)

might start entering some $2.20 tournaments, took my intial 1k play money to 100k without wipeout in a few nights. I havent really done much reading into the game but I notice i tend to fold quite a lot...


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## johnnyg (22 September 2009)

white_goodman said:


> might start entering some $2.20 tournaments, took my intial 1k play money to 100k without wipeout in a few nights. I havent really done much reading into the game but I notice i tend to fold quite a lot...




Sounds like you only enter the pot when you have a good/very good hand?


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## white_goodman (22 September 2009)

johnnyg said:


> Sounds like you only enter the pot when you have a good/very good hand?




90% id say yes, but other times I try and bluff, usually depends what the first 3 cards are and how everyones betting, number of players etc...

cos its play money however, some people are almost all in every hand..


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## Wysiwyg (22 September 2009)

white_goodman said:


> might start entering some $2.20 tournaments, took my intial 1k play money to 100k without wipeout in a few nights. I havent really done much reading into the game but *I notice i tend to **fold quite a lot...*




I tend to do the same however when the blinds climb there comes a time where I have to go on something like K4 and hope.
The better players also read your style. If you only go on good cards then they will keep the pot small. Sometimes it is better to play the `flop and see` game so you keep them guessing.


----------



## joslad (22 September 2009)

white_goodman said:


> might start entering some $2.20 tournaments, took my intial 1k play money to 100k without wipeout in a few nights. I havent really done much reading into the game but I notice i tend to fold quite a lot...




You'll find real money a bit different to play money.  I've accumulated nearly 10 million dollars in play money.  I've yet to withdraw cash from playing real money games and have had to make a few deposits to top up the real money account.

Too many fools on the play money tables.  Actually, theres plenty of them on the real tables too!!


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## adobee (9 December 2009)

I am thinking about joining poker stars.. any advise any one can give a novice.. anything to be aware off ?   

anyone making any money on this ?

any restrictions for australians ?


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## adobee (9 December 2009)

With the no limit tables.. Is there a limit to the amount of chips you can take to the table ? 

ie if i rock up with a million chips can i keep taking someone all in or can you only take 200 chips to the table at once ?


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## Largesse (9 December 2009)

yes there is a max buy in for each table


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## Wysiwyg (9 December 2009)

adobee said:


> I am thinking about joining poker stars.. any advise any one can give a novice.. anything to be aware off ?
> 
> anyone making any money on this ?
> 
> any restrictions for australians ?



Don't go there! The program I downloaded worked for about 2 months and then my computer screen started to freeze. I.e. could not operate my computer. I had to reboot to get normal function and then any internet site opened would freeze the computer again. I had to re-install the operating system and chose to write over (erase) everything on the hard disk. I was not 100% sure it was the poker stars program until I downloaded it again and the same thing happened. Frozen screen. This time I removed the poker stars program and problem solved. I wish I had done that the first time.
 Matter of fact I could have saved hundreds by not going there at all.


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## Mr J (9 December 2009)

Adobee, check out the 2+2 poker forum.


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## adobee (9 December 2009)

Wysiwyg said:


> Don't go there! The program I downloaded worked for about 2 months and then my computer screen started to freeze. I.e. could not operate my computer. I had to reboot to get normal function and then any internet site opened would freeze the computer again. I had to re-install the operating system and chose to write over (erase) everything on the hard disk. I was not 100% sure it was the poker stars program until I downloaded it again and the same thing happened. Frozen screen. This time I removed the poker stars program and problem solved. I wish I had done that the first time.
> Matter of fact I could have saved hundreds by not going there at all.




aside from the hardware problems anything else ?
this cant be happening to 110,000 users .. will set up seperate computer at home for use.. will only have poker and itunes..


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## adobee (9 December 2009)

Mr J said:


> Adobee, check out the 2+2 poker forum.




cant find it ?? where am i looking on ASF ?


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## Wysiwyg (9 December 2009)

adobee said:


> aside from the hardware problems anything else ?
> this cant be happening to 110,000 users .. will set up seperate computer at home for use.. will only have poker and itunes..



Yes. Start with small buy-in games. After awhile when you get a feel for how often you lose you can work out how to win more often. The *im*probability factor is all powerful and the improbable might just work in your favour.


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## Pivotonian (9 December 2009)

adobee said:


> cant find it ?? where am i looking on ASF ?




Its not on ASF:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/

Probably the best known poker forum in the world, and starting point for many, many world class players.  Well worth a look if you're keen to learn more about online poker (especially the digests).

If you're a complete novice, my advice would be to play the play money tables for a while to get a hang of the game, and how its played online, while you educate yourself by reading forums such as 2+2.  Then when you're comfortable with play money, deposit a small amount and play the lowest limit tables, and work your way up.  FYI, I started with $50 playing 2NL (thats no limit hold'em cash games with .01/.02 blinds and $5 buy-in), and am now playing 100NL (.50/1 blinds and $100 buy-in).

By the way, I've installed the PokerStars software on 4 different computers over the past year and a half, including a Mac, and have never had any problems with it.  Works a treat.

And on restrictions for Aussies, there is no problem on virtually any sites, despite the fact that it is actually illegal to offer online poker to Australian residents.  Its only illegal for the site though, not the user, so overseas-based companies such as PokerStars simply ignore it and there's no issue.  However, we can't play on Betfair or Centrebet because they have Australian licences that would be endangered if they allowed us to play, and one network (Merge) actually has its HQ in Brisbane so they don't allow Australians to play on most of their sites.  Other than that though, there are literally dozens of sites to choose from.


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## Wysiwyg (9 December 2009)

Pivotonian said:


> Probably the best known poker forum in the world, and starting point for many, many world class players.  Well worth a look if you're keen to learn more about online poker (especially the digests).



How many make it do you think? 1 in 10,000 or 1 in 100,000 roughly? I bet there are 100's upon 1000's that do their dough and a few that make it from them.


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## Mr J (9 December 2009)

Wysiwyg said:


> How many make it do you think? 1 in 10,000 or 1 in 100,000 roughly? I bet there are 100's upon 1000's that do their dough and a few that make it from them.




It's no harder than trading, at least until you get to higher limits. In fact, I'd say it is easier than trading because good players move up. At lower limits, even a player with basic skills will be profitable. You can make a 6 figure income on medium limits. Well at least we could back in '05, but it may have become tougher with increased competition. I haven't experienced a gambling market better than trading though. Poker beats it only when it comes to start up capital.


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## Pivotonian (9 December 2009)

Wysiwyg said:


> How many make it do you think? 1 in 10,000 or 1 in 100,000 roughly? I bet there are 100's upon 1000's that do their dough and a few that make it from them.




Depends what you mean by "make it".  If you mean make a living from poker, then yes, the vast majority never make it.  But thats OK, nearly all of them either just play for fun and/or don't risk a problematic amount.  The losses they incur are "entertainment expenses" or just normal hobby costs.  Pretty much all hobbies - gardening, golf, stamp collecting, whatever - cost money, but you pay it because you enjoy doing it.

By the way, many "pros" haven't really "made it" imo - they play an enormous number of hands at a breakeven or even slightly negative winrate, and live off the rakeback.  I would have thought there's only a very few who actually make a really good living out of it.  I have no idea of the proportion, but its not high.


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## Mr J (10 December 2009)

Pivotonian said:


> By the way, many "pros" haven't really "made it" imo - they play an enormous number of hands at a breakeven or even slightly negative winrate, and live off the rakeback.  I would have thought there's only a very few who actually make a really good living out of it.  I have no idea of the proportion, but its not high.




Perhaps for limit, but when I was playing there were at least as many people playing NL and sngs. The people who played these certainly did not live off rakeback, it was just a bonus. As for proportion, it's misleading. Most people do not seriously try to profit, which is why when I was playing online poker was so profitable. A lot of the losers are also very casual, so it's not a fair comparison to something like trading, where the aim of everyone is to profit. 

The question is what proportion of traders who attempt to become skillful, end up making a living? I would think it's reasonable. More than trading, if only because of poker's table limit system (protects the less skillful players from good players, unlike in the markets).


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## Pivotonian (10 December 2009)

Mr J said:


> Perhaps for limit, but when I was playing there were at least as many people playing NL and sngs. The people who played these certainly did not live off rakeback, it was just a bonus.




Its also true for NL and sngs.



Mr J said:


> As for proportion, it's misleading. Most people do not seriously try to profit, which is why when I was playing online poker was so profitable. A lot of the losers are also very casual, so it's not a fair comparison to something like trading, where the aim of everyone is to profit.




Fully agree.  As I said above, its entertainment for a lot of people.



Mr J said:


> The question is what proportion of traders who attempt to become skillful, end up making a living? I would think it's reasonable. More than trading, if only because of poker's table limit system (protects the less skillful players from good players, unlike in the markets).




A fundamental difference between poker and trading is that poker is a negative sum game - for every dollar you win other people have to lose more than a dollar.  And because people tend to give up more quickly when they're losing than when they're winning, you need A LOT more losers than winners to keep the poker economy alive, which keeps the "proportion" inherently low.

Also worth bearing in mind is that the standard of play has increased a lot at the lower levels in the past couple of years.  There's way more information available on the internets than there used to be, and so many people are taking it more seriously because they've heard the stories about Tom Dwan, Phil Galfond, Aaron Jones, Brian Townsend, Cole South, Dusty Schmidt and all these other "internet phenoms" and think they could do it too.  So the proportion of serious players to fun players has dropped and you have to be able to beat the serious players to beat 50NL these days, whereas people who have been around a long time tell me that in the past you could get to 400NL+ before that happened.  That also means that although there's more serious players, more of them are losing players, and winrates for winning players tend to be lower than in the past because their edge is smaller.


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## Mr J (10 December 2009)

> Its also true for NL and sngs.




Perhaps it is now, but it wasn't at the time.



> A fundamental difference between poker and trading is that poker is a negative sum game - for every dollar you win other people have to lose more than a dollar.




More, due to rake. This isn't a difference with trading though; rather than other players, we have other traders; rather than rake, we have commissions and spread.



> And because people tend to give up more quickly when they're losing than when they're winning, you need A LOT more losers than winners to keep the poker economy alive, which keeps the "proportion" inherently low.




The turnover may be high, but again, I think the correct comparison should be between those who seriously try to profit, and those who succeed. It's not a good comparison to simply compare % of pros in poker to % of pros in trading, because the primary motivation of one is entertainment, and the other is profit. The market structure of poker allows for at least as many predators as trading, if not more.



> Also worth bearing in mind is that the standard of play has increased a lot at the lower levels in the past couple of years. There's way more information available on the internets than there used to be




I'm aware of this. I was playing poker from late '04 to early '06, which were golden years by comaprison (they certainly were for Sit and Gos). There was a hell of a lot of dead money in poker, and I can't imagine that has changed. The table limits also act as natural protection. There can't be much argument about information, as it was extremely widespread when I was playing. The only difference is that more people are paying attention to it (the fish started to catch on to folding equity in SNGs, for example).

I change my mind about poker. My view on comparing difficulty isn't going to be helpful, because I think it's all easy. Comparing poker and trading would be comparing two different points at the same extremity of a scale. I can see that poker requires far more effort though, requiring constant analysis and decision, while trading can do so at a much more relaxed and flexible pace if desired. I also think it would be easier to make a good living trading, because the equivalent to low-limit robotic play scales nicely in trading.


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## adobee (10 December 2009)

When you are at a table can you leave at anytime.. ie if you have a great had all in can you take your winnings or do you stay at table to there is one winner ?


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## Pivotonian (10 December 2009)

adobee said:


> When you are at a table can you leave at anytime.. ie if you have a great had all in can you take your winnings or do you stay at table to there is one winner ?




Thats the key difference between cash games and tournaments - with cash games you can sit in at any time and leave at any time, and effectively "cash in" your chips when you leave.  With tournaments however the chips at the table are worthless outside the tournament, and you only get paid based on your finishing position.

Thats why I pay cash games - I virtually never have the several hours it takes to play a multi-table tournament in one sitting, and there's nothing more frustrating than working your way into a great chip position and then having to leave.


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## Pivotonian (10 December 2009)

Mr J - I agree with most of what you say, but not all.

I would love to get into a long debate about the nature of poker and the state of the "poker economy", but don't have the time; suffice it to say that since early 2006 some things have changed and some haven't.  Poker today is certainly beatable (at least to a certain level) if you apply yourself, and there are still very large numbers of poor players and/or entertainment players especially at the lower limits.

One thing that has changed in the last few years is that limit hold'em is almost non-existent now.  The VAST majority play NLHE, either tournaments or cash games.  And the new game on the block is Pot Limit Omaha - thats what all the cool kids are playing.


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## Mr J (10 December 2009)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's not more competitive than when I played. Conditions even changed noticeably during my 12-15 months of online poker, so I can only expect that the overall level of skill is higher. I might appear to understate difficult in poker and trading, but that's just my personal view. If I can do it, I tend to view it as easy.


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## cuttlefish (10 December 2009)

adobee said:


> I am thinking about joining poker stars.. any advise any one can give a novice.. anything to be aware off ?




Coming home at night plastered and firing up multiple tournaments at once doesn't do wonders for your game statistics or account balance ... particularly if you have a tendency to fall asleep on the sofa half way through.


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## Pivotonian (17 December 2009)

With the whole stunningly stupid internet filtering debate coming back into the news, I remembered that the original list of banned sites included Poker Stars and several other online poker sites.  Because of course online poker is pretty much the same as child pr0n 

Looked to me like a backdoor way of trying to enforce the almost as ridiculous online gambling legislation against the large international providers.

Does anyone know if it is still proposed to ban Poker Stars?


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## Clubber (17 December 2009)

Try playing the "Double or Nothing" games. You start with 10, play down to 5 and whoever is left doubles their investment. I find it the least stressful way to make a buck. I worked my way up to the point that I now play 13 x $10 tables at once, takes about 45 minutes (NB - You have to work your way up to this, do not try this at home, yet), and make about $1000-$1500 a month in my spare time, not enough to live off but good beer money or useful for paying unplanned bills. A lot of people do this and the usual win rate is about 56-58%, and trust me even when you go through streaks when you win 80% of your games, you run into pocket aces again and again and again and your win rate drops back to 57%.

Also remember, do not play for serious money until you have played 250,000 hands.


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## Pivotonian (18 December 2009)

Clubber said:


> Try playing the "Double or Nothing" games. You start with 10, play down to 5 and whoever is left doubles their investment. I find it the least stressful way to make a buck. I worked my way up to the point that I now play 13 x $10 tables at once, takes about 45 minutes (NB - You have to work your way up to this, do not try this at home, yet), and make about $1000-$1500 a month in my spare time, not enough to live off but good beer money or useful for paying unplanned bills. A lot of people do this and the usual win rate is about 56-58%, and trust me even when you go through streaks when you win 80% of your games, you run into pocket aces again and again and again and your win rate drops back to 57%.
> 
> Also remember, do not play for serious money until you have played 250,000 hands.




I have heard that DoNs are very soft, although I've never played them.  If you only need to make the top half, then I'd imagine there would be few all-ins and people would be playing very conservatively, which is very exploitable.

And what do you mean by "serious money"?


----------



## Clubber (19 December 2009)

To an extent they are soft. I cant win on cash games and I'm only an average tournament player, but I'm up a healthy amount on DorN's. What people need to understand is that playing them is a different art to tournys or cash games

EG - 6 people left, blinds 300-600 60 ante

You - 1500 Ace, Ace
Seat 2 - 470
Seat 3 - 340
Seat 4 - 250
Seat 5 - 160  Blinded in
Seat 6 - 10000  BB 600

Pot - 1060

Sounds crazy, but I'm folding my Aces, under the gun, preflop. I'm going to get called by seat 6, meaning I'm a 14% chance of losing. If I fold the chances of someone being eliminated before I get blinded out are about 97%. I'll take the 97%. A lot of the time late in the game what other peoples chip stacks are, compared to your own is more important than the two cards you are holding.

I move all in with 4-6, but fold A-K instead of calling, sounds nuts, but I'm winning. My basic strategy is to wait until the blinds hit 75-150 and then become very aggressive, moving allin often to steal blinds, until I feel safe enough to sit back a while. In the first 20 minutes I'm a very passive player, I'll only play monster pots when I'm holding a monster hand. There really isnt much rocket science to it, I win because I dont think much.

The key to playing them is how many tables you can play at once. No matter how good you are you are going to win about 58% of your games, meaning for a $10 game your yield is about $1-$1.20 a game. That is a skill that is acquired, I can play 13 games at once, although I'm now trialling 15. The other thing, as you are seeing so many hands you are going to see everything, and I mean, everything and this can be frustrating. I was once eliminated in three games in one minute on a sextuple runner, keeping your cool is also a strength (One I need to improve).

As for playing for "real money", I guess what they are saying is only play amounts that are meaningful for you once you've played 250,000 hands. You are not going to get hurt playing $5 tournaments, but if you are losing a few hundred a week, and you cant afford that, then you really should stop. I only became profitable around the 250,000 hand mark.


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## Shrewd Crude (21 January 2010)

Clubber,
you are onto it...
My mate was doing real real well in the double or nothings, and he played the same way you do...
I rarely play texas anymore online... I will put aside $200 for texas in the SCOOP (spring championship of online poker)...
I think its 10 million guaranteed series...
its coming up in April and would have to be the second biggest series online after the WCOOP...
Im playing in the PLO Hi low... and will roll myself into the $1050US Tornament if they run it again...

What a treat this game has been...

anyone else playing Pot limit Hi low, or No limit hi low?

.^sc


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## Wysiwyg (21 January 2010)

Clubber said:


> I move all in with 4-6, but fold A-K instead of calling, sounds nuts, *but I'm* *winning.*



The difference being someone calls your bluff and you get knocked out.


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## Wysiwyg (21 January 2010)

Clubber said:


> As for playing for "real money", I guess what they are saying is only play amounts that are meaningful for you once you've played 250,000 hands. You are not going to get hurt playing $5 tournaments, but if you are losing a few hundred a week, and you cant afford that, then you really should stop. I only became profitable around the 250,000 hand mark.




And this an important knowing.


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## Mr J (21 January 2010)

> Also remember, do not play for serious money until you have played 250,000 hands.




Generalisations don't apply the everyone. It may or may not be an accurate average, but it's certain that individual experiences will vary greatly. 



> I move all in with 4-6, but fold A-K instead of calling, sounds nuts, but I'm winning.




It's just fold equity. Typical bubble stuff.



			
				Wysiwyg said:
			
		

> The difference being someone calls your bluff and you get knocked out.




That's a risk, and your analysis of calling ranges will determine what you push. Ah, the jouy of pushing any 2 on the bubble in a sit'n go . Of course, by mid '05 the fish started to catch on (or at least get fed up) and call or push more regularly. No idea what it is like now.


----------



## lukelee (21 January 2010)

I am a web designer, I have just finished a poker info site design for a client in usa:
http://luke.dreamupdating.com.au/dreampoker/
the site hasnt been lunched yet, it is just a design. the real site will be at 
http://www.dreampokersites.com/
it will list all the best poker sites in the world.


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## akkopower (21 January 2010)

lukelee said:


> I am a web designer, I have just finished a poker info site design for a client in usa:
> http://luke.dreamupdating.com.au/dreampoker/
> 
> it will list all the best poker sites in the world.




Cards on the top are the wrong colours


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## Pivotonian (21 January 2010)

Clubber said:


> As for playing for "real money", I guess what they are saying is only play amounts that are meaningful for you once you've played 250,000 hands. You are not going to get hurt playing $5 tournaments, but if you are losing a few hundred a week, and you cant afford that, then you really should stop. I only became profitable around the 250,000 hand mark.




250K hands??

This is a silly statement.  You should play within your bankroll - how much money you should risk depends on how much you have.

When I started in 2008, I had a $50 poker bankroll, so I played 2NL (no limit hold'em with 1c/2c blinds), buying in for $2 at a time.  Now I have about $4K and play 50NL, buying in for $50 at a time, and I'm hoping to move up 100NL shortly.  If you do the math, I'm playing with a smaller percentage of my bankroll now than when I first started.

There are some generally accepted guidelines for bankroll management.  For no limit hold'em cash games the generally accepted amount is around 20-25 buyins.  So if you have $250, you shouldn't be playing games where you buy in for more than $10.  That means 10NL.  For SNGs its something like 50 buy-ins, and for multi-table tournaments its more like 100 buy-ins.

However, at the end of the day, how big your bankroll needs to be for your stakes is a personal decision.  In cash games, some highly skilled players who cashed out and are moving back up through stakes they know they can beat might get away with 10-15 buy-ins, while professional players who need to withdraw every month for living expenses probably need closer to 100 buy-ins at their regular stakes to withstand the inevitable downswings they'll have to endure.

Me, I don't need to withdraw, but I'm conservative with my roll because I don't intend to go broke.  I'm still at 50NL even though most players with my bankroll would be at least at 100NL, because I'm not convinced I can really crush 50NL yet.  Hopefully not long now though!


----------



## Pivotonian (25 January 2010)

Anyone here play on Full Tilt and tried their new "Rush Poker"?

Looks like a lot of fun, but I wouldn't really call it poker.


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## Shrewd Crude (28 January 2010)

Hey Pivotonain,
Im not on fulltilt but I might consider playing in ftops...
everything you say is correct for following standard guidelines...
...
it seems that you have a very sound system... we all have our own...
last year I built up 2k in 3wks from $100 playing omaha hi low, and got greedy chasing bigger money and it cost me my whole bank roll...... I lost it on the cash tables playing my style, which comes up as super tilt on sharkscope...
it works, but I found that it didnt work on cash tables...
its good... im going to the WSOP main event series next year...
this years goals 50k us online... def possible in omaha hi low......

The only thing I have to add is....
Play in tornaments with many players... that way you leverage your returns...

alright... back to the $5.50 torny... we are down to 4 players from 400 plus field...

.^sc


----------



## Shrewd Crude (28 January 2010)

damn... I just went out 4th ... got $160ish
I love my job.... between this and the shares, life is great...
I might even come to Australia for a holiday soon...

.^sc


----------



## Dowdy (28 January 2010)

Clubber said:


> Sounds crazy, but I'm folding my Aces, under the gun, preflop. I'm going to get called by seat 6, meaning I'm a 14% chance of losing. If I fold the chances of someone being eliminated before I get blinded out are about 97%. I'll take the 97%. A lot of the time late in the game what other peoples chip stacks are, compared to your own is more important than the two cards you are holding.
> 
> I move all in with 4-6, but fold A-K instead of calling, sounds nuts, but I'm winning. My basic strategy is to wait until the blinds hit 75-150 and then become very aggressive, moving allin often to steal blinds, until I feel safe enough to sit back a while. In the first 20 minutes I'm a very passive player, I'll only play monster pots when I'm holding a monster hand. There really isnt much rocket science to it, I win because I dont think much.




folding pocket aces pre flop! Are you alright?

I understand folding pocket aces on the flop if it comes out K,K,Q or something like that but not preflop.

If you play with the players i play with you'll be officially a _donkey_ and you'll be out first hand if you go all in with 4,6


Anyone here play facebook poker. You get good players considering they're free games


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## Wysiwyg (28 January 2010)

I had a go at this last year to no avail. I didn't catch on till later that I was folding against good bluffers. One particular player accumulates the largest bank roll and I noticed he often wins without even having to show his cards. When he did have to lay them down he more often than not had the b.s. hand.

 I thought he couldn't have so many good hands so I believe he was reading the players calls and squeezing any weakness he perceived. If he had a good hand that was a bonus in his strategy. 

He was skilled at playing poker. Not in a game where the best hand wins, but in a game where fear is a profitable exploit.


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## Mr J (28 January 2010)

Wysiwyg, that's standard big stack bullying. This is all pretty standard :.


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## white_goodman (28 January 2010)

Mr J said:


> Wysiwyg, that's standard big stack bullying. This is all pretty standard :.




yeh I was about to say...

WYSIWYG are you sure your playing poker and not Go Fish?


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## Wysiwyg (29 January 2010)

white_goodman said:


> yeh I was about to say...
> 
> WYSIWYG are you sure your playing poker and not Go Fish?




C'mon white, at least I know how to spell owned (hint: o is to the left of p on the keyboard. )
and you're.


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## white_goodman (29 January 2010)

Wysiwyg said:


> C'mon white, at least I know how to spell owned (hint: o is to the left of p on the keyboard. )
> and you're.




cereal?


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## RazzaDazzla (29 January 2010)

Sorry for the sidetrack guys.

Is it possible to build a positive expectancy poker system?

e.g. based on how much you are risking VS the likelihood of winning the pot?
I know you don't know what cards the other's have, but you should be able to come up with some estimates based on your hand and the community cards.

Then, as long as your bet gave an overall % expectancy you would play.

Obviously in No Limit games a big better would blow your formula up and you would fold. 

anyway, just a thought.


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## Mr J (29 January 2010)

> e.g. based on how much you are risking VS the likelihood of winning the pot?
> I know you don't know what cards the other's have, but you should be able to come up with some estimates based on your hand and the community cards.




Of course. Again, this is standard stuff. If you're not putting your opponents on hand ranges, considering pot odds, future pot odds, chances of improving hands etc, you're playing very poorly.



> Obviously in No Limit games a big better would blow your formula up and you would fold.




Not at all.


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## Pivotonian (31 January 2010)

RazzaDazzla said:


> Sorry for the sidetrack guys.
> 
> Is it possible to build a positive expectancy poker system?
> 
> ...




Yes, but without the ability to accurately estimate opponent hand ranges and adjust to different player types, it would only be +EV at the very lowest stakes against the very worst players.

In NL it would be more complex - you would have to take into account stack sizes and bet sizing - but still possible I think.


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## Shrewd Crude (24 February 2010)

SCOOP is starting in 6 weeks...
and this year it will be bigger than ever...
check out the details, They only recently got released...
Im looking at playing in about 18 events...
I will only play in the low buy ins for texas holdem, but will play in medium and maybe hi in the pl omaha hi low, and nl omaha hi low... .

check out some of the low buy ins for texas holdem...
Would be good to follow a few of yous through the torny...

The Full Tilt Online Poker Series (FTOPS) XV is over and done with, but online grinders looking for their next big chance at a big score don’t have to wait too long, as PokerStars’ Spring Championship of Online Poker (SCOOP) is set to run from May 3rd-16th. The 33-event series promises at least $36 million in prize money, including a $5 million guarantee on the highest-buy-in 2-day Main Event.

Unlike the World Championship of Online Poker (WCOOP), the SCOOP offers a tiered buy-in system with low, medium and high buy-in tournaments for each event. Buy-ins range from $5.50 to $10,300, so there will be an event to cater to just about any bankroll. The series action kicks off May 3rd with a 6-handed No Limit Hold’em w/ rebuys event and will continue through the month with everything from heads-up to Razz to HORSE to Badugi events.

The Main Event of the series will run on Sunday May 16th with $109, $1,050 and $10,300 tournaments with $1 million, $3 million and $5 million prize pools respectively. It is one of three SCOOP events taking place that day, which means we could see another epic Sunday like the one we saw this week.

Without further adieu, here is the 2010 SCOOP schedule:

Event 1: No-Limit Hold’em with Re-buys Six-Max
May 3, 2010
Low: $5.50 buy-in, $250,000 guaranteed
Med: $55 buy-in, $500,000 guaranteed
High: $530 buy-in, $1,000,000 guaranteed

Event 2: Fixed-Limit Badugi
May 3, 2010
Low: $16.50 buy-in, $25,000 guaranteed
Med: $162 buy-in, $50,000 guaranteed
High: $1,575 buy-in, $75,000 guaranteed

Event 3: Pot-Limit Five-Card Draw
May 4, 2010
Low: $11 buy-in, $25,000 guaranteed
Med: $109 buy-in, $50,000 guaranteed
High: $1,050 buy-in, $75,000 guaranteed

Event 4: No-Limit Hold’em Heads-Up Match Play
May 4, 2010
Low: $16.50 buy-in, $100,000 guaranteed
Med: $162 buy-in, $250,000 guaranteed
High: $1,575 buy-in, $500,000 guaranteed

Event 5: No-Limit Hold’em
May 4, 2010
Low: $11 buy-in, $100,000 guaranteed
Med: $109 buy-in, $200,000 guaranteed
High: $1,050 buy-in, $500,000 guaranteed

Event 6: Mixed Hold’em Six-Max
May 5, 2010
Low: $22 buy-in, $100,000 guaranteed
Med: $215 buy-in, $200,000 guaranteed
High: $2,100 buy-in, $400,000 guaranteed

Event 7: Seven Card Stud
May 5, 2010
Low: $33 buy-in, $25,000 guaranteed
Med: $320 buy-in, $50,000 guaranteed
High: $3,150 buy-in, $100,000 guaranteed

Event 8: Pot-Limit Omaha Heads-Up Match Play
May 6, 2010
Low: $22 buy-in, $25,000 guaranteed
Med: $215 buy-in, $100,000 guaranteed
High: $2,100 buy-in, $200,000 guaranteed

Event 9: No-Limit Hold’em
May 6, 2010
Low: TBD buy-in, $100,000 guaranteed
Med: TBD buy-in, $200,000 guaranteed
High: TBD buy-in, $300,000 guaranteed

Event 10: No-Limit Hold’em Ante-Up
May 7, 2010
Low: $16.50 buy-in, $50,000 guaranteed
Med: $162 buy-in, $100,000 guaranteed
High: $1,575 buy-in, $200,000 guaranteed

Event 11: Fixed-Limit Omaha High-Low
May 7, 2010
Low: $55 buy-in, $50,000 guaranteed
Med: $530 buy-in, $150,000 guaranteed
High: $5,200 buy-in, $250,000 guaranteed

Event 12: No-Limit Hold’em 2x Chance Turbo
May 7, 2010
Low: $16.50 buy-in, $250,000 guaranteed
Med: $162 buy-in, $500,000 guaranteed
High: $1,575 buy-in, $750,000 guaranteed

Event 13: No-Limit Hold’em Shootout
May 8, 2010
Low: $22 buy-in, $15,000 guaranteed (Quadruple Shootout)
Med: $215 buy-in, $150,000 guaranteed (Triple Shootout)
High: $2,100 buy-in, $200,000 guaranteed (Double Shootout)

Event 14: Pot-Limit Omaha with Re-buys Six-Max
May 8, 2010
Low: $16.50 buy-in, $100,000 guaranteed
Med: $162 buy-in, $250,000 guaranteed
High: $1,575 buy-in, $500,000 guaranteed

Event 15: No-Limit Hold’em Big Antes
May 9, 2010
Low: $22 buy-in, $250,000 guaranteed
Med: $215 buy-in, $750,000 guaranteed
High: $2,100 buy-in, $750,000 guaranteed

Event 16: No-Limit Hold’em Two Day Event
May 9, 2010
Low: $22 buy-in, $500,000 guaranteed
Med: $215 buy-in, $1,500,000 guaranteed
High: $2,100 buy-in, $2,000,000 guaranteed

Event: 17: Pot-Limit Hold’em, Pot-Limit Omaha
May 10, 2010
Low: $16.50 buy-in, $100,000 guaranteed
Med: $162 buy-in, $200,000 guaranteed
High: $1,575 buy-in, $300,000 guaranteed

Event 18: No-Limit Hold’em Four-Max
May 10, 2010
Low: $33 buy-in, $150,000 guaranteed
Med: $320 buy-in, $300,000 guaranteed
High: $3,150 buy-in, $500,000 guaranteed

Event 19: Deuce-Seven Triple Draw
May 11, 2010
Low: $11 buy-in, $25,000 guaranteed
Med: $109 buy-in, $50,000 guaranteed
High: $1,050 buy-in, $75,000 guaranteed

Event 20: Seven Card Stud High-Low
May 11, 2010
Low: $22 buy-in, $50,000 guaranteed
Med: $215 buy-in, $100,000 guaranteed
High: $2,100 buy-in, $150,000 guaranteed

Event 21: No-Limit Hold’em
May 11, 2010
Low: $11 buy-in, $100,000 guaranteed
Med: $109 buy-in, $200,000 guaranteed
High: $1,050 buy-in, $500,000 guaranteed

Event 22: Razz
May 12, 2010
Low: $22 buy-in, $50,000 guaranteed
Med: $215 buy-in, $100,000 guaranteed
High: $2,100 buy-in, $150,000 guaranteed

Event 23: No-Limit Hold’em with Two Re-buys & One Add-on
May 12, 2010
Low: $22 buy-in, $100,000 guaranteed
Med: $215 buy-in, $300,000 guaranteed
High: $2,100 buy-in, $500,000 guaranteed

Event 24: Eight-Game
May 13, 2010
Low: $33 buy-in, $75,000 guaranteed
Med: $320 buy-in, $150,000 guaranteed
High: $3,150 buy-in, $250,000 guaranteed

Event 25: Pot-Limit Omaha High-Low
May 13, 2010
Low: $11 buy-in, $75,000 guaranteed
Med: $109 buy-in, $150,000 guaranteed
High: $1,050 buy-in, $300,000 guaranteed

Event 26: No-Limit Hold’em with One Re-buy & One Add-on
May 14, 2010
Low: $22 buy-in, $250,000 guaranteed
Med: $215 buy-in, $500,000 guaranteed
High: $2,100 buy-in, $1,000,000 guaranteed

Event 27: Fixed-Limit Hold’em Six-Max
May 14, 2010
Low: $55 buy-in, $100,000 guaranteed
Med: $530 buy-in, $200,000 guaranteed
High: $5,200 buy-in, $300,000 guaranteed

Event 28: No-Limit Omaha High-Low Turbo
May 14, 2010
Low: $22 buy-in, $50,000 guaranteed
Med: $215 buy-in, $100,000 guaranteed
High: $2,100 buy-in, $200,000 guaranteed

Event 29: Pot-Limit Omaha
May 15, 2010
Low: $55 buy-in, $100,000 guaranteed
Med: $530 buy-in, $250,000 guaranteed
High: $5,200 buy-in, $500,000 guaranteed

Event 30: HORSE
May 15, 2010
Low: $22 buy-in, $50,000 guaranteed
Med: $215 buy-in, $100,000 guaranteed
High: $2,100 buy-in, $200,000 guaranteed

Event 31: No-Limit Hold’em Six-Max
May 16, 2010
Low: $22 buy-in, $20,000 guaranteed
Med: $215 buy-in, $750,000 guaranteed
High: $2,100 buy-in, $750,000 guaranteed

Event 32: No-Limit Hold’em Heads-Up Match Play Two Day Event
May 16, 2010
Low: $270 buy-in, $250,000 guaranteed
Med: $2,600 buy-in, $500,000 guaranteed
High: $25,500 buy-in, $750,000 guaranteed

Event 33: No-Limit Hold’em Main Event Two Day Event (5/16)
May 16, 2010
Low: $109 buy-in, $1.000,000 guaranteed
Med: $1,050 buy-in, $3,000,000 guaranteed
High: $10,300 buy-in, $5,000,000 guaranteed

.^sc


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## Shrewd Crude (2 March 2010)

yesterday I won the $109 omaha hi low and got $3500US...
won another big one a few days before that...
im totally set up for SCOOP now...
im a full time gambler and share investor 7 yrs...
next year im going to put it all on the line and go to the WSOP...

Im really exciting to be doing this my way...
it aint conventional... I dont care what others think...
my family is still skeptical of it all...
I will just continue to deal up the goods and invest in oil shares, and line up for  the WSOP Omaha hi low main event next year all on profits...
its total skill...


.^sc


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## Pivotonian (2 March 2010)

Anyone seen the new promotion on Poker Stars?

They're offering a $100K "dream job" package where you get paid to be a poker player for a year ...


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## Shrewd Crude (22 April 2010)

The above list of SCOOP events is wrong... humm...
They are roughly the same but different dates...
go to PS to check them out...
ive got me 33 tickets... invested over 1k... should be a blast...
made another k yesterday...

.^sc


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## Shrewd Crude (1 July 2010)

I bombed SCOOP in my 3 specialist events...
wasnt to well at the time...
ended up pulling out of the texas events, ran crap in those...

WCOOPS 63 days away...


Ive Being running sick at Omaha hi low...
up near 7.5K us over the last 90days...
buying more and adding to stocks...
holding CUE and NGE...

.^sc


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## Wysiwyg (27 November 2016)

Been playing at online Poker Stars for the last few weeks for up to $5 games and the most bizarre thing happens to me (and others I assume). That is a greater than 90% loss rate with All In bets. At some stage all in comes along either by having a very good pre flop or post flop hand. I started capturing the results when the disbelief became consistent. All hands I had the best pre flop or post flop but the other player hit every time and at times when the chance of hitting were stacked heavily against. Like I said this is a greater than 90% loss rate for all ins. Bad luck or algorithms??


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