# Trading the SPI



## Bronte

Nearly 100 point drop
4896 Low


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## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> 6.30AM Cold, dark Wednesday morning.
> Here we go again
> Dow +52.7 pts
> ASX 4992
> SPI 4988



Wish I had stayed in bed today


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## Ageo

Bronte said:
			
		

> Wish I had stayed in bed today





haha your telling me, although it panning out atm and it looks like a Breakout upwards might occur.

This time i will trade it and not hesitate! as not only did it cost me $1000 but potentially i could have made $4500   

I dont know how sometimes you guys do it but faarrkk it can be frustrating hehe.

anywayz i will report later on


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## Ageo

Well jumped on that small breakout of the MA crossover and i retreived $350 but into my pocket.

Better than nothing i spose.


Looks like im out for today, will report next with any new trades.


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## Sensei

Bronte said:
			
		

> Wasn't good news



Bronte ... that was the expectation.  Did you actually go long under the looming announcement?  No Gann or Elliot or anyone else will help if one stands in the way of that herd.  I waited for the announcement then followed the lead of the big end of town ... no good swimming against them.


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## Bronte

We were "Bearish"
Traded off "Gann Resistance" 4995
We had Support at 4977
It all went wrong after the announcement.
I  :22_yikes:  :axt: tried to catch a falling knife....Ouch!


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## wayneL

Ahhhh Economic news.

Something us SP500 traders face 2 or 3 days out of every week during trading hours.

Always anxiety inducing, always volatile, the crowd always picks the wrong direction first, alway fun.

If I'm feeling crazy enough (or if I have enough profit in hand from a swinger) and hold through news, I've seen my open equity jump around, up and down to the tune of thousands.

Digitalis anyone.

LOL


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## neo

Was there any indication in the market or elsewhere prior to 11:30 that SPI would drop so heavily at 11:30?
CPI was expected at 1.1% so an anouncement of 1.6% was sure to surprise.
I would assume that if CPI was 1.1% the market would have done zip and if it was much less than 1.1% it probably have gone up!!!


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## volatile_guy

OK its 11:50 AEST 26/07/06. SPI is last @ 4912 (4907/4914) down 2.

Thoughts?


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## Bobby

Well whats going to happen on todays opening ?  

 Gap down.

Bob.


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## neo

Hi people,

DJIA/S&P basically flat.
Sycom closed at 4910. (down 3 pts from yesterdays close).
I would think the SPI should initially be flat to positive today...
Can't see a reason why it would gap down ..
IMHO I think its hard to make any call on the SPI prior to seeing what eventuates OS...ie. US markets,commodities, sycom etc,etc


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## Bronte

Bobby said:
			
		

> Well whats going to happen on todays opening ?
> Gap down.
> Bob.



Why do you think the SPI is going to "Gap down" Bob?


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## Ageo

Seems it will be a dead day today.


Well lets hope that changes


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## neo

I'm long at 4906.
See what happens.....


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## neo

Dumb trade......
Stopped out already!!!! (5pts...Doh,oh well until tomorrow)


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## Sensei

Nice price action so far ... if breaks 17 with volume next stop 33 followed by mid 50's.  Lets see it pan out.


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## Sensei

Bronte said:
			
		

> We were "Bearish"
> Traded off "Gann Resistance" 4995
> We had Support at 4977



Bronte what's yr Support & Resistance levels today?


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## Ageo

Didnt jump on the MA crossover breakout.


again failing to pull the trigger cost me (potentially) $1500.


waiting for that tumble down.


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## Sensei

Ageo said:
			
		

> Didnt jump on the MA crossover breakout.
> again failing to pull the trigger cost me (potentially) $1500.
> waiting for that tumble down.



Ageo .... Having confidence in your system and having good tight stops is the key.  All systems will give you false entries on more occassions than you may like, but at least have the safetynet below you.
The other thing is don't focus on the money, focus on the system ... entry, stop loss, target/trailing stop.  If the system works then the money is, by definition, in the bank.


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## Ageo

Sensei said:
			
		

> Ageo .... Having confidence in your system and having good tight stops is the key.  All systems give you a false entries, but at least have the safetynet below you.
> The other thing is don't focus on the money, focus on the system ... entry, stop loss, target/trailing stop.  If the system works then the money is, by definition, in the bank.





So true and thanks for your support. But iam learning my lesson,

thanks again


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## Sensei

Ageo said:
			
		

> So true and thanks for your support. But iam learning my lesson,
> thanks again



PS ... you answered too quick ... I edited the grammar ... lol!!


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## Ageo

lol sorry mate, 


Looks like gravitation levels are holding

4943 on the A200 and its trading @ 4945-50 atm.

lets see if it breaks it or comes back down to target open.


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## Sensei

A well behaved orderly move from 10.20am this morning ... watching for a further move to mid50's ... however the move was "too smooth" .. hardly any retracements .... leaves a suspicious feeling with me ... make sure you have good trailing stops to protect your work so far!!


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## professor_frink

Ageo said:
			
		

> lol sorry mate,
> 
> 
> Looks like gravitation levels are holding
> 
> 4943 on the A200 and its trading @ 4945-50 atm.
> 
> lets see if it breaks it or comes back down to target open.




What's a gravitation level ageo?


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## Ageo

I have 4 (2 minor and 2 major) Resistance levels and also 4 support levels. Gravitation is the 1 smack bang in the middle.


ASR use it and i have been using it with great success over the period.

And as we speak it looks like its holding


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## professor_frink

Ageo said:
			
		

> I have 4 (2 minor and 2 major) Resistance levels and also 4 support levels. Gravitation is the 1 smack bang in the middle.
> 
> 
> ASR use it and i have been using it with great success over the period.
> 
> And as we speak it looks like its holding




Interesting. Are they similar to pivots? Or is it just S/R as calculated by ASR? If I'm asking for too many secrets  then feel free not to answer!


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## Ageo

To be hones im not sure exactly but they do use fibonacci so it is a combination im assuming of fibonacci and something else.

They show the grapth and list the crucial technical points to look out for.

Like i said works well for me.

And again as i speak looks like its setting up for a push down as 4943 has held strongly.


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## professor_frink

Ageo said:
			
		

> To be hones im not sure exactly but they do use fibonacci so it is a combination im assuming of fibonacci and something else.
> 
> They show the grapth and list the crucial technical points to look out for.
> 
> Like i said works well for me.
> 
> And again as i speak looks like its setting up for a push down as 4943 has held strongly.




Thanks for that ageo. What chart are you using? The XJO or SPI?


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## Ageo

Frink im using the Aussie200 chart on CMC.


Update: pushed through gravitation level and looks to now test the 1st minor resistance level @ 4963.


Will report as it goes


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## Sensei

Sensei said:
			
		

> A well behaved orderly move from 10.20am this morning ... watching for a further move to mid50's ... however the move was "too smooth" .. hardly any retracements .... leaves a suspicious feeling with me ...



 Today's lesson ......... 

*don't let your expectations get in the way of the price action.*

The chart was telling us one thing and our mindset was swaying us the other way.


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## professor_frink

Ageo said:
			
		

> Frink im using the Aussie200 chart on CMC.
> 
> 
> Update: pushed through gravitation level and looks to now test the 1st minor resistance level @ 4963.
> 
> 
> Will report as it goes




Well that explains why that S/R number didn't make sense to me!! Good luck with it ageo  

p.s- look out spi traders, my a/c with IB should be open and funded by the time I get back from my holiday that I'm going on next month, so ya'll will have someone else to talk to about trading this beast!!

p.p.s- Bronte,I'll try to not spend all of my time making smart a** comments to you when I join in on a more regular basis


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## Ageo

lol dont ask me where this rally came from but it looks like pure manipulation.

Let see if it does what yesterday did and at the end of the day move the opposite.


P.S 1st major resistance level is being tested @ 4983.


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## mit

Ageo said:
			
		

> lol dont ask me where this rally came from but it looks like pure manipulation.
> 
> Let see if it does what yesterday did and at the end of the day move the opposite.
> 
> 
> P.S 1st major resistance level is being tested @ 4983.




Yeah, its the deadtime at the moment. When the big guys start coming back from lunch at 2.30pm then the afternoon trend will start up. If I was still in I would be tempted to close out now at a nice profit and then reenter when the afternoon trend establishes itself. 

MIT


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## Bobby

Bronte said:
			
		

> Why do you think the SPI is going to "Gap down" Bob?




Bronte , just saw your post.
Well it did gap down on opening !   

Bob.


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## Bronte

Wow!
Only just logged on again..
You boys are really going for it  
So is the market...Great to see.

Hi Bob, do you see a gap? Interesting.


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## Ageo

mit said:
			
		

> Yeah, its the deadtime at the moment. When the big guys start coming back from lunch at 2.30pm then the afternoon trend will start up. If I was still in I would be tempted to close out now at a nice profit and then reenter when the afternoon trend establishes itself.
> 
> MIT






If the MA crossover happens thats my trigger to go short. I hope it ploughs down too


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## mit

Ageo said:
			
		

> If the MA crossover happens thats my trigger to go short. I hope it ploughs down too




I'm in long with a tight stop as the trend hasn't changed. If not stopped out I'll get out at 2:40 as this is when the next trend change tends to happen.

MIT


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## Ageo

lol this is a funny day.


Hurtfull as i didnt get in @ 4922 (trigger) but ahwell no point worrying about that now. If it does reverse thow it might hammer down, but it looks like it aint goin down!


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## Sensei

What a rally ... as if the inflation figures did not exist. ... lol ... yesterday's news today's fish wrapper!!
What is the view? ... will we test (my) next levels at 5004 and 5028? ... well o4 maybe possible, but 28? ... nah!! impossible (today at least).


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## mit

Out at 4990. See if it changes now

MIT


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## Ageo

nice scalp mit, this rally just doesnt want to end lol

seems manipulation hardcore.


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## Bronte

mit said:
			
		

> Out at 4990. See if it changes now
> MIT



Hi mit,
What are you trading?  
The SPI hasn't seen 4990 ????


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## Bronte

Low  4884
High 4984
100 point rally


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## mit

I've been saving the A200 as snapshots and looking at the daily shape and from 2 until 2:40 it seems to be a fairly consistant trend. It would have been nice to catch 4996 though.

From 2:40 it looks as though another wave of traders come on board and you can see this now. When they make up their mind another trend should start.

MIT


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## Ageo

Bronte said:
			
		

> Hi mit,
> What are you trading?
> The SPI hasn't seen 4990 ????




he's trading CFD's the aussie200


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## Ageo

mit said:
			
		

> I've been saving the A200 as snapshots and looking at the daily shape and from 2 until 2:40 it seems to be a fairly consistant trend. It would have been nice to catch 4996 though.
> 
> From 2:40 it looks as though another wave of traders come on board and you can see this now. When they make up their mind another trend should start.
> 
> MIT




hope so, as it doesnt look convincing that a reversal will kick in and if 1 does only a small 1 at that.


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## mit

Starting to look like a trend down. Might be good for a few pips. Short at 4989


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## Ageo

mit said:
			
		

> Starting to look like a trend down. Might be good for a few pips. Short at 4989




not enough confirmation for me.

but i hope it free falls for both of our sake


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## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Low  4884
> High 4984
> 100 point rally



You gave us scare mit


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## Bronte

We sold our SPI Resistance 4984 
Stoploss was 4990


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## Ageo

is it me or does it look like it might be pushing up a tad further


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## Bronte

mit said:
			
		

> Out at 4990. See if it changes now
> MIT



 &


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## Sensei

....... watch the negative divergence!


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## Ageo

ill give it to 3:30pm (Sydney time) to reverse, if not i think it will mellow out for the day. Although i have seen last minute changes


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## Ageo

Ageo said:
			
		

> is it me or does it look like it might be pushing up a tad further





materials sector is racing up. Which usually pushes up the A200.

I cant get over this, amazing if you were long from the open


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## Ageo

took the plunge and went short @ 4986.


lets see what happens


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## Sensei

doesn't look convincing just yet .... need confirmation that it's not a false breakout.


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## Sensei

doesn't look convincing just yet .... need confirmation that it's not a false breakout.

PS ... is this server very slow or is it at my end?


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## Ageo

server is very slow


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## Sensei

Thanks Ageo .. sorry for the doubleup message


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## mit

Ageo said:
			
		

> not enough confirmation for me.
> 
> but i hope it free falls for both of our sake




This is only drinking money unfortunately. My real money is long shares so I'll have mixed feelings. Doesn't seem to be going anywhere at the moment

oops out at 4993. 

MIT


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## Ageo

should have waited for confirmation and trigger so i closed for a 2 point loss (nothing).

Will wait for confirmation on next trade


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## Ageo

mit said:
			
		

> This is only drinking money unfortunately. My real money is long shares so I'll have mixed feelings.
> 
> 
> MIT




how many contracts you trading?


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## Sensei

They're are playing with it now .... sucking players in ... don't you hate it!


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## mit

Only 10 in the morning and 5 in the afternoon. I don't tend to like CMC very much and I have only around $5k in the account. I get it up to around $10k and take $5k out. Although, for the last month I have been playing the Aussie and it has been pretty profitable. I'm thinking of doing the risk properly and growing the account. I have been trying for around 1% a day. Total for today is $57 so I reached my target. 

MIT


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## Ageo

Sensei said:
			
		

> They're are playing with it now .... sucking players in ... don't you hate it!




sux dont it,


ahwell we can only play by there rules.


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## Ageo

mit said:
			
		

> Only 10 in the morning and 5 in the afternoon. I don't tend to like CMC very much and I have only around $5k in the account. I get it up to around $10k and take $5k out. Although, for the last month I have been playing the Aussie and it has been pretty profitable. I'm thinking of doing the risk properly and growing the account. I have been trying for around 1% a day. Total for today is $57 so I reached my target.
> 
> MIT





nice work, if CMC had DMA it would be the best company i reckon, its the only thing that lets them down.


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## mit

Ageo said:
			
		

> sux dont it,
> 
> 
> ahwell we can only play by there rules.




Very unusual for there to be no late trend.

MIT


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## Ageo

mit said:
			
		

> Very unusual for there to be no late trend.
> 
> MIT




i agree especially after how far the rally went.

Who knows!


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## Sensei

Ageo said:
			
		

> nice work, if CMC had DMA it would be the best company i reckon, its the only thing that lets them down.



... and the fact you are trading on their terms


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## Ageo

Sensei said:
			
		

> ... and the fact you are trading on their terms





Sensei, because i dont hold positions overnight (hardly ever) it doesnt bother me to be spiked out.

So far its been profitable for me and i havent had a issue with price discrepency but its always good to know for liquidity purposes that DMA is at hand.

but so far im cool with everything


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## Sensei

Ageo said:
			
		

> Sensei, because i dont hold positions overnight (hardly ever) it doesnt bother me to be spiked out.
> So far its been profitable for me and i havent had a issue with price discrepency but its always good to know for liquidity purposes that DMA is at hand.
> but so far im cool with everything



Ageo, always a case of best fit for one's trading style, cheers.


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## mit

I've been trading with them for 3 years and I know that all companies want to make money. Most companies make money by having happy customers but I think CMCs business model is to get lots of newby customers and blow them up. I have heard lots of profitable customers that have been targetted by CMC (20 minutes to get filled, getting requoted constantly).  

Also when a group of people make money on certain kinds of trading they change the rules. The latest is the variable spreads for the sector indexes. If CMC hedged like they reckon they do then they wouldn't keep changing the rules.

I do like playing the A200 but as Sensei says it's on their terms. Sometimes this can be an advantage because I think they target stops etc but still must vaguely match the SPI CMC can get out of step and that's when you can make money.

MIT


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## mit

Sensei said:
			
		

> ... and the fact you are trading on their terms




To contradict what I just said I just compared the A200 against the SPI chart that Bronte posted earlier. Except for the price offset it seems to follow it pretty closely only varying by a few pips here and there. I suppose that it would have to really. If CMC tried to move from the SPI too much you could make money on a spread trade.

Although that one pip can make a difference if it just happens to hit where most people logically put their stops.

Which begs the question that if you are going to trade more than 25 A200 contracts why not trade the SPI and the brokerage is cheaper than the spread you have to pay with CMC (2 pips=$50 for 25 contracts).

MIT


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## Sensei

... missed the last 20min ... but one from left field .... 
tomorrow *watch 5028-30*


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## Ageo

mit said:
			
		

> To contradict what I just said I just compared the A200 against the SPI chart that Bronte posted earlier. Except for the price offset it seems to follow it pretty closely only varying by a few pips here and there. I suppose that it would have to really. If CMC tried to move from the SPI too much you could make money on a spread trade.
> 
> Although that one pip can make a difference if it just happens to hit where most people logically put their stops.
> 
> Which begs the question that if you are going to trade more than 25 A200 contracts why not trade the SPI and the brokerage is cheaper than the spread you have to pay with CMC (2 pips=$50 for 25 contracts).
> 
> MIT





i spose thow that the A200 is only 1 component i trade of CFD's. I trade many shares, sectors and commodoties so it gives me flexibility.

I could trade both futures and CFD's but then i would be confusing myself hehe


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## mit

So do I but trading just 25 contracts once a day on CMC is over $12500 a year. Saving over half of that would be like winning an extra 250 pips a year.

MIT


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## Ageo

atm im happy with that since if i have both futures and CFD's (2 different platforms) ill start to confuse myself and before you know it that 250 pips im saving will end up over 1000 pips loss by not focusing.


Im happy to pay it for the time being


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## onemore

mit said:
			
		

> I just compared the A200 against the SPI chart that Bronte posted earlier. Except for the price offset it seems to follow it pretty closely only varying by a few pips here and there.
> 
> MIT




Mit i also have noticed that webb iress charts of the SPI ,are slightly diff than those free delayed charts that Bronte uses for her post. 

I printed my webb iress charts one day and compared them with those Mann-FutureSource charts and some bars were different  

ps  And yes i was on the same timeframe


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## mit

Onemore,

That's interesting. I was comparing mainly to see what the Aussie200 was aligning with as it uses a MarketMaker, but I thought the spi is the spi and all sources should be the same. Is it possible for you to get a screen price of today's SPI (9:50 until 4:30). I would be interesting to line them up against each other. If the other one is free, I'll try to download it myself (How does Bronte trade from delayed charts?)

regards


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## Bronte

Hi mit,
The daygraph becomes our chart that we update by hand....tick by tick.
We have Live "Trading Platforms" so we can do our own Buying / Selling.
Market Analyser Pro. provides "Real Time Live Streaming Data"
MotorRola Orange PocketWatch provides slightly delayed data (8 / 10 seconds, I think)....so I can go shopping  
The Man Financial Charts are approx. 15 to 20 minutes delayed.  
I hope this answers your question


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## Bronte

Drifted down overnight.
Sycom -13
Dow -2.1


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## mit

Fine, I just assumed that you would get a live graph with you trading platform.  

MIT


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## Ageo

Perhaps another day where the dow stagnated but the All Ords moves another 50-100 points?


Might be a sell off as people might take some profits.

'who knows'


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## mit

Trade what happens but maybe - 

A small rally in the morning and profit taking in the afternoon.

MIT


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## mit

long at 4985


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## Ageo

ill wait for the MA crossover before i go long, but it seems to be pushing down.


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## Bronte

Early weekend for me.
I was a Seller this morning....
Anything around mid 4990's  
Gann Resistance here.


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## Sensei

mit said:
			
		

> long at 4985



Gutsy call mit .... good luck ...

Tend towards Ageo view and wait for all the dust to settle, unless there is clear direction.


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## Sensei

Bronte said:
			
		

> Early weekend for me.
> I was a Seller this morning....
> Anything around mid 4990's
> Gann Resistance here.



Bronte ... you sold mid90's??
Can you post closer to the time or straight after your entry so we don't get the impression it's after the event?   
Apologies if I missed something.


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## spitrader1

Bronte said:
			
		

> Early weekend for me.
> I was a Seller this morning....
> Anything around mid 4990's
> Gann Resistance here.



of course you were.....


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## mit

out at 4975


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## Ageo

My gravitation support level is 4969 aswell but materials is taking a beating so im not sure if it will hold.

Hopefully it gets smacked and then the fund managers buy back into it.

Remember there bonuses are coming up


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## Bronte

Hehe!
Sorry lads
*I was * ....meaning *IF* the market had traded around 4995
(mid 90's) I *would * have sold off my Gann Resistance.
Early weekend for me due to the market *NOT* trading here


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## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Early weekend for me.
> I was a Seller this morning....
> Anything around mid 4990's
> Gann Resistance here.



The chart I posted clearly shows that the SPI had *not* traded in the mid 90's
Opened at 4981
High 4982
Now 4956 Low
Early weekend for me.....off shopping


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## Sensei

Anyone of the view that the selling is nearly exhausted and long from here?
... as long as it can push through mid60's


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## Ageo

Im feeling more bullish now, although im going to wait for confirmation. Hopefully if the fundies get in there they move that price up fast


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## mit

looks like a double bottom. We should move this to the chat room so as not to clutter up the forum

MIT


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## nat

Morning all ,,,hey ageo i was wondering if dont mind ,what ma crossover you using for direction on what time frame,for early warning and stops im using 6 ema and 22 ema on 2 min chart and 10 min chart Nathan


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## Ageo

Hi Nat,

Im using a weekly 5min chart, 5 & 20 day EMA's.

I find it works well with short term but thats just me.


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## Ageo

Materials is moving back up and if it cross the MA's so will the A200 and thats when my trigger will be hit.

Just waiting


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## Ageo

every1 is joining on the chat so meet there for any1 thats following.


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## Bronte

How do we do this Ageo ???


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## nat

thanx for that ageo ,is good to try different ideas or c where ones coming from at times Nathan


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## Ageo

yep thats true Nat, im always learning so that i can enhance my trading.


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## Bronte

Just for the record............SPI was at 4969
We called a short during a live chat session.
Did not take the trade.......now 4925 
We gave a few good reasons  
Eight members were present.


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## mit

Spitrader1,

Came back for a quick look at the market, it has gone down in a big way. Did you catch any of it?

MIT


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## Bronte

No mit,
You saw our live call..
Too busy chatting


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## Ageo

Ageo said:
			
		

> Perhaps another day where the dow stagnated but the All Ords moves another 50-100 points?
> 
> 
> Might be a sell off as people might take some profits.
> 
> 'who knows'





what i said before open.

crazy eh


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## mit

Bronte said:
			
		

> No mit,
> You saw our live call..
> Too busy chatting




Sorry, I can't help you. I logged back in at around 12:45 but got called to lunch and a walk before it came back when I came back around 1:30 I could see that I came back at the end of the conversation. I tried to "scrollback" the conversation but it had timed me out. When I logged back in all of the messages had disappeared. I tried to scrollback but it seems to only let you scroll back 5 minutes.


Anyway my message was to spitrader who had scalped a few shorts already, I wondered if he got the big one.

MIT


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## mit

Ageo said:
			
		

> what i said before open.
> 
> crazy eh




I'll just  crank up my time machine and listen to you this time.


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## Ageo

mit said:
			
		

> I'll just  crank up my time machine and listen to you this time.





haha do you wanna go broke?   

anywayz trailing stop got hit n my ASX trade.

Short yesterday @ 33.94 and closed @ 33.00

$520 net profit (not bad).

the A200 looks like its trying to breakout and rally but im not sure if its gonna happen.


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## Ageo

looks like its setting up for a move even lower!  


My 1st major support is @ 4920


let see if it holds (after todays trading i doubt it).


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## mit

Yes the funds are coming back from their 2 hours lunches now. See what they do.

MIT


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## Ageo

getting closer to a breakout.


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## pchivers

Ageo wrote:
> Short yesterday @ 33.94 and closed @ 33.00

What is this please?  I'm curious what you're trading for 0.94 profit.


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## Ageo

pchivers said:
			
		

> Ageo wrote:
> > Short yesterday @ 33.94 and closed @ 33.00
> 
> What is this please?  I'm curious what you're trading for 0.94 profit.





The ASX stock


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## Bronte

It has been an interesting week "Trading the SPI"
Thanks for all your input guys  
A really great month in fact.
& we still have Monday.


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## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Just for the record............SPI was at 4969
> We called a short during a live chat session.
> Did not take the trade.......now 4925
> We gave a few good reasons
> Eight members were present.



It seems as though Joe can recall our little chat session.
Chat works very well Joe...Thank you for installing it


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## onemore

Bronte said:
			
		

> "Trading the SPI"
> 
> .


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## Bronte

Todays SPI Chart:


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## Joe Blow

Bronte said:
			
		

> It seems as though Joe can recall our little chat session.
> Chat works very well Joe...Thank you for installing it




Hi Bronte, I wasn't there but I checked the chat log and for the record you said 'sell 4967' at approximately 11:45am. The attachment below says 21:44:41 27/7/06 but the time stamp on the log is 14 hours behind the time on the east coast of Australia.

Glad to see people are using the chat room.


----------



## Bobby

Joe Blow said:
			
		

> Bronte, I wasn't there but I checked the chat log and for the record you said 'sell 4967' at approximately 11:45am. The attachment below says 21:44:41 27/7/06 but the time stamp on the log is 14 hours behind the time on the east coast of Australia.
> 
> Glad to see people are using the chat room.




Go Joe !!!
   

Bob.


----------



## spitrader1

mit said:
			
		

> Sorry, I can't help you. I logged back in at around 12:45 but got called to lunch and a walk before it came back when I came back around 1:30 I could see that I came back at the end of the conversation. I tried to "scrollback" the conversation but it had timed me out. When I logged back in all of the messages had disappeared. I tried to scrollback but it seems to only let you scroll back 5 minutes.
> 
> 
> Anyway my message was to spitrader who had scalped a few shorts already, I wondered if he got the big one.
> 
> MIT




heh mit thanks for the effort of enquiring, unfortunately i had other priorities so i squared up for the day...


----------



## Bronte

Joe Blow said:
			
		

> Hi Bronte, I wasn't there but I checked the chat log and for the record you said 'sell 4967' at approximately 11:45am. The attachment below says 21:44:41 27/7/06 but the time stamp on the log is 14 hours behind the time on the east coast of Australia.
> Glad to see people are using the chat room.



*Thank you Joe  
Very much appreciated.*
I was asked to give a live call.
Eight members saw the above live.
I said "sell 4967" the SPI was at 4969


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> *Thank you Joe
> Very much appreciated.*
> I was asked to give a live call.
> Eight members saw the above live.
> I said "sell 4967" the SPI was at 4969



It was about 11.44/45 AM (EST) as the log says  
Some members were thinking of buying off the double bottom.
*I said "no please listen to me" "sell 4967" * 
Great to see we can recall."Thanks again Joe"
Only trying to help


----------



## Bronte

Dow +119.3  
Should set up an interesting Open


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Dow +119.3
> Should set up an interesting Open



*Monday 31st July 2006*
 I wonder if our market will go up or down. :bowdown:SPI


----------



## Bronte

SPI Daily showing "Sideway Movements" and "Gaps":


----------



## neo

Hi Bronte,

Sycom closed at 4985. (up from Fridays close at 4936).
I should think that Mondays opening should be around this area.

If so the SPI has already priced in a rise in response to the increase in the dow and s&P. 
Any market moves therefore on Monday will be due to local factors.
Mondays tend to be positive days.
OS commodities had no big moves on Friday.
There doesn't seem to be any great (short term) negative influence.....hence I would think we may have a trade opportunity to the long side!

What are your thoughts Bronte?
Anyone else?


----------



## neo

Mind you, there is nothing stopping a good dowm move either.
I think I will stay in the spectators box and see what happens!!


----------



## Bronte

Good morning neo / Freddo,
Great to see you back


----------



## Freddo

neo said:
			
		

> What are your thoughts Bronte?
> Anyone else?




From my charts I am "thinking" it should go to the upside
like you said though I'll wait until it declares itself
either way.

No trades from me last week, have been on a conference
and didn't get any signals anyway.

Regards

Freddo


----------



## Bronte

We have always found Mondays to have the most unpredictable of Opens.
E.O.M. Selling could still be around.
Monday Buy Rules & Dow +119 Points. 
We will trade what we see this morning 
Resistance at 4990/5 
Support at 4962/4


----------



## Freddo

Bronte said:
			
		

> Good morning neo / Freddo,
> Great to see you back




Good Morning Bronte !

Looking forward to seeing how today goes

Regards

Freddo


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> We have always found Mondays to have the most unpredictable of Opens.
> E.O.M. Selling could still be around.
> Monday Buy Rules & Dow +119 Points.
> We will trade what we see this morning
> *Resistance at 4990/5 *
> Support at 4962/4



*Resistance becomes Support *  
Opened at 4997 above our Resistance
4995 Low
5006 High
5006 Now


----------



## Ageo

Hi All.

My 1st major resistance level is 5024 and then if it holds a push back down to 4070 (gravitation).

let see how it pans out.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Dow +119.3
> Should set up an interesting Open



That it was


----------



## Sensei

Ageo said:
			
		

> Hi All.
> My 1st major resistance level is 5024 and then if it holds a push back down to 4070 (gravitation).
> let see how it pans out.



 ... 4070 ... yes but not today ....
Maybe a high of 5010 then a pullback to low 60's.


----------



## Bronte

Sensei said:
			
		

> *... 4070 ... yes but not today ....
> Maybe a high of 5010 then a pullback to low 60's*.



*4070* Not today indeed


----------



## Sensei

Ageo, we know you meant 4970 and we almost agree on targets.  But seriously 4500 possible on the way the chart may unfold ... even lower!


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> We have always found Mondays to have the most unpredictable of Opens.
> E.O.M. Selling could still be around.
> Monday Buy Rules & Dow +119 Points.
> *We will trade what we see this morning *
> Resistance at 4990/5
> Support at 4962/4



"We will trade what we see"
All Resistance / Support areas posted are:
*Gann Support / Resistance Areas*
If we *see* the SPI Open above one of these areas we *Buy*
If we *see* the SPI Open below one of these areas we *Sell *
Protecting our Stoploss with the Support / Resistance available


----------



## spitrader1

no one in the spi room today


----------



## spitrader1

no one in chat today??


----------



## professor_frink

Bronte said:
			
		

> "We will trade what we see"
> All Resistance / Support areas posted are:
> *Gann Support / Resistance Areas*
> If we *see* the SPI Open above one of these areas we *Buy*
> If we *see* the SPI Open below one of these areas we *Sell *
> Protecting our Stoploss with the Support / Resistance available




a tough morning bronte???- been lots of chop around one of the levels you posted. Hope you didn't get caught in too much of it  

p.s- I have a weekly pivot level resistance at 5005. There were a couple of potential entries off that level this morning(not trying to claim any trades here folks-my a/c still isn't open  )

Happy trading all- it's a sunny day- I'm going to hit some golf balls


----------



## nat

hi all ,is a tough morn ,4 trades for -1 point ,prob best to not trade on last day of the month ,one can only learn by trying things Nathan


----------



## Ageo

Sensei said:
			
		

> Ageo, we know you meant 4970 and we almost agree on targets.  But seriously 4500 possible on the way the chart may unfold ... even lower!





lol sorry, was a typo. 4970 is my target

and yes lower levels around 4500 are definately on the cards.


----------



## Bronte

Hehe!  
We knew what you meant Ageo


----------



## Ageo

im in chat btw for any1 that wants to join me


----------



## Bronte

professor_frink said:
			
		

> a tough morning bronte???- been lots of chop around one of the levels you posted. Hope you didn't get caught in too much of it



Thank you professor-frink.
We just traded once off the Open Support this morning.
With lots and lots of care


----------



## Bronte

31st July is also Water Rates Annual Service Payment Day.
Not complaining here....We have *lots* to pay


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Support at 4962/4



Now 4962


----------



## Bronte

5006 High
4960 Low
4962 Now
7617 Volume


----------



## Bronte

E.O.M. Selling
Now 4953 Low


----------



## Ageo

Ageo said:
			
		

> lol sorry, was a typo. 4970 is my target




well the A200 did hit it and is now hovering around it.


I went short @ 5000 and my stop was hit @ 4975 so 25 points x 20 contracts = $500.

Looks thow it might keep going down


----------



## Freddo

Nothing for me today...

No time to go scalping.

I am suffering from a very very itchy trigger finger
and have to keep telling myself to be patient.

If we get around 4900 I'll be ready to short it.


----------



## Sensei

Freddo said:
			
		

> Nothing for me today...
> If we get around 4900 I'll be ready to short it.



 ... got a feeling we'll see 5000 again before it heads in that direction.


----------



## Bronte

Todays SPI:


----------



## Bearman52

Hi Folks
just reading the messages for today, D'ont know whether you realize it but there was around 390 points in swings today (on a 3min chart) at least half of them were gettable using the right system. So yes it did go up & down today. It was a beautiful day to trade.Unfortunately we are in the middle of a move and I'm packing and she who commands put my trading room off limits (apart from an occasional sneaky eyeballing of the screens,because as we know this is addictive)The market will give to you if you tickle it the right way


----------



## professor_frink

Bearman52 said:
			
		

> Hi Folks
> just reading the messages for today, D'ont know whether you realize it but there was around 390 points in swings today (on a 3min chart) at least half of them were gettable using the right system. So yes it did go up & down today. It was a beautiful day to trade.Unfortunately we are in the middle of a move and I'm packing and she who commands put my trading room off limits (apart from an occasional sneaky eyeballing of the screens,because as we know this is addictive)The market will give to you if you tickle it the right way




G'day Bearman,

So how would you go about picking up nearly 200 points based on yesterdays action? 
200 points is a pretty good day's trading


----------



## Bronte

Dow -34.0
Down as expected.
Today F.O.M.


----------



## Bronte

professor_frink said:
			
		

> G'day Bearman,
> So how would you go about picking up nearly 200 points based on yesterdays action?
> 200 points is a pretty good day's trading



*Hi professor, Bearman52
That is a very good question.*


----------



## nat

hi there ,id be happy to consistently get 20 points a day Nathan


----------



## spitrader1

if anyone thinks they can help me with a certain type of order, please go to the chat room. i cant getg my head around it.


----------



## Sensei

look short .... in @ 50


----------



## Sensei

Sensei said:
			
		

> look short .... in @ 50



 .... begga ... did a U-turn 10min after the cash opened ... out for a 10 hit


----------



## Bronte

Very tough luck Sensei
What were your reasons for going short when you did?


----------



## Bronte

SPI 2min chart showing the trade:


----------



## Sensei

Bronte said:
			
		

> Very tough luck Sensei
> What were your reasons for going short when you did?



on open trade the 5 min chart and got a sell signal ... after cash opened lower looked like the short would follow through ... it got to 41 but stalled and market turned ... early seemed 41 could be broken ... had a look of weakness about it when testing 50's .. but 50's became support ... out on my stop


----------



## Bronte

Thank you Sensei.


----------



## Bronte

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> if anyone thinks they can help me with a certain type of order, please go to the chat room. i cant getg my head around it.



Hi spitrader1,
Did you get an answer to your question?


----------



## nat

hi there ,was wondering does anyone have a way to tell in sideways movement ,how to tell when breakout is going to be the right one or best to just not trade in lunchtimes,Nathan


----------



## Ageo

nat said:
			
		

> hi there ,was wondering does anyone have a way to tell in sideways movement ,how to tell when breakout is going to be the right one or best to just not trade in lunchtimes,Nathan




nat a few crucial points i look at for breakouts.


5 & 20 day EMA crossovers, high volume, and the important resistance/support levels.

thats the only time i usually trade the A200


----------



## Sensei

nat said:
			
		

> ...  or best to just not trade in lunchtimes,Nathan



 .. and lunchtime, in general, exhibits low volume.


----------



## nat

thanx for that ageo and sensie,i havent got any vol as using cmc for trading and just have a intraday yahoo for cash price but no vol on that ,is there any free ways of telling vol or got to have paid live charts ,or be registed with a broker that gives one that stuff, Nathan


----------



## Sensei

nat said:
			
		

> thanx for that ageo and sensie,i havent got any vol as using cmc for trading and just have a intraday yahoo for cash price but no vol on that ,is there any free ways of telling vol or got to have paid live charts ,or be registed with a broker that gives one that stuff, Nathan



need live data ... most brokers I am aware of charge you a fee for using the live data/chart platforms ... there are also independent live data suppliers.  Can cost typically between $100-$150 pm.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Hi mit,
> The daygraph becomes our chart that we update by hand....tick by tick.
> We have Live "Trading Platforms" so we can do our own Buying / Selling.
> Market Analyser Pro. provides "Real Time Live Streaming Data"
> MotorRola Orange PocketWatch provides slightly delayed data (8 / 10 seconds, I think)....so I can go shopping
> The Man Financial Charts are approx. 15 to 20 minutes delayed.
> I hope this answers your question



It is not wise to try and trade the SPI on the cheap.

As for the trading sessions.
We have broken the day up as follows:

07.50AM to 08.15AM Open Session
08.15AM to 10.00AM Morning Session
09.45AM to 12.00AM Lunchtime
12.00AM to 02.00PM Afternoon Session
02.00PM to 02.30PM Happy Half Hour  

Hope this helps.
We hardly ever trade the Lunchtime.


----------



## Freddo

Bearman52 said:
			
		

> Hi Folks
> just reading the messages for today, D'ont know whether you realize it but there was around 390 points in swings today (on a 3min chart) at least half of them were gettable using the right system. So yes it did go up & down today. It was a beautiful day to trade.Unfortunately we are in the middle of a move and I'm packing and she who commands put my trading room off limits (apart from an occasional sneaky eyeballing of the screens,because as we know this is addictive)The market will give to you if you tickle it the right way




Loving the sound of this....
I'm using a mobile device at the moment for live data so I don't have
intraday data stored.

If someone wants to email me tick data for yesterday I'll have ago at charting
it and share what I find with you.

email freddofrog[AT]email[Dot]com

And for your viewing pleasure a chart of my 4MGS system revisited
and currently being tested.
It's needs some tidying up not all the green and red arrows are valid entry signals, look for the white line crossing above the
thicker grey line for long and vice versa for shorts you should see it picks up on the big moves nicely.

I use EMAs and home grown indicators to confirm/filter signals.


----------



## nat

thanx for that bronte ,yes im def trying to do it on the cheap at moment,thing is most of the time its not my cheapness thats letting me down its my lack of discapline ,i dont normally trade the lunchtimes but thought today might be diff ,but it wasnt ,im finding best to just stay away,during those times so dont get tempted.
im still really in experimental mode at moment ,once i get my discalpline reigned in then if still not profiting consistenly ,i will have to go the paid live data ,and start agin.
Those times you posted for diff parts of trading day are they the right times as im way out if there right on what i thought they were ,according to cameron site ,they are as followws
pre open-9.40 am to 9.49.am
opening sesion- 9.50am to 10.00am
morn session-10.01am to 12.00pm
lunchtime-12.01pm to14.00pm
afternoon session-14.01pm to16.00pm
happy hour-16.01pm to 16.30pm
Nathan


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> As for the trading sessions.
> We have broken the day up as follows:
> 07.50AM to 08.15AM Open Session
> 08.15AM to 10.00AM Morning Session
> 09.45AM to 12.00AM Lunchtime
> 12.00AM to 02.00PM Afternoon Session
> 02.00PM to 02.30PM Happy Half Hour
> Hope this helps.
> We hardly ever trade the Lunchtime.



These are Perth times Nathan


----------



## nat

Ahh yes all makes sense now,Nathan


----------



## Freddo

nat said:
			
		

> thanx for that bronte ,yes im def trying to do it on the cheap at moment,thing is most of the time its not my cheapness thats letting me down its my lack of discapline ,i dont normally trade the lunchtimes but thought today might be diff ,but it wasnt ,im finding best to just stay away,during those times so dont get tempted.
> im still really in experimental mode at moment ,once i get my discalpline reigned in then if still not profiting consistenly ,i will have to go the paid live data ,and start agin.
> Those times you posted for diff parts of trading day are they the right times as im way out if there right on what i thought they were ,according to cameron site ,they are as followws
> pre open-9.40 am to 9.49.am
> opening sesion- 9.50am to 10.00am
> morn session-10.01am to 12.00pm
> lunchtime-12.01pm to14.00pm
> afternoon session-14.01pm to16.00pm
> happy hour-16.01pm to 16.30pm
> Nathan




Nathan

You have the right times...
I am using an "Orange Pocket Watch" again
it's approx $150.00 a month which seems expensive
but it quickly pays of it's self as $150 is just 6 points
which the SPI can move in a blink.

As Bronte said there is about a 8 second delay though
(although some other pager based systems are much worse).

I'm looking at a 3G based phone which I believe is supposed
to be real time.

The worst thing about things like pocket watch is you get can addicted to it
I used to have mine in bed! Drove my wife crazy with it flashing and beeping
as stops went off on Sycom


----------



## Bronte

Freddo said:
			
		

> Nathan
> You have the right times...
> I am using an "Orange Pocket Watch" again
> it's approx $150.00 a month which seems expensive
> but it quickly pays of it's self as $150 is just 6 points
> which the SPI can move in a blink.
> As Bronte said there is about a 8 second delay though
> The worst thing about things like pocket watch is you get can addicted to it
> I used to have mine in bed! Drove my wife crazy with it flashing and beeping
> as stops went off on Sycom



Hehe!
Ours are definitely banned from the games room  
I suppose expensive just to have for shopping.
My first NewsPager cost me $1000 just to buy it
That was over ten years ago now


----------



## Bronte

*The SPI was $100 a tick back then.*


----------



## Sensei

what an insipid market ... back where it started!! ... a rate rise is expected  ... has the market already priced this in?


----------



## nat

i was wondering ,since sp500 and the dow had small range days and an inside bar on dailies ,is our market following and waiting for tonight for direction one way or the other ,Nathan


----------



## Bronte

Todays 5 mins SPI Chart.....


----------



## Bronte

*Amazingly we are still getting over 600 hits a day on this thread:
"Trading the SPI"*


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> *Amazingly we are still getting over 600 hits a day on this thread:
> "Trading the SPI"*




It's a bit like a bad car wreck. 

Horrifying to see, but you just can't stop yourself looking.  

(Joke folks)


----------



## Ageo

Was like a jumping jack today.

I think the market has already factored in a rate rise though.


----------



## wayneL

nat said:
			
		

> i was wondering ,since sp500 and the dow had small range days and an inside bar on dailies ,is our market following and waiting for tonight for direction one way or the other ,Nathan




I think the US Market is waiting for the personal income and outlays £'s tonight, that's why it wad dead.

These numbers are impotant for the perception of whether the fed will pause or not.... and the market (ignoring all other more important data) is hanging its hat on a pause FFS.


----------



## wayneL

wayneL said:
			
		

> I think the US Market is waiting for the personal income and outlays £'s tonight, that's why it wad dead.
> 
> These numbers are impotant for the perception of whether the fed will pause or not.... and the market (ignoring all other more important data) is hanging its hat on a pause FFS.




Core inflation rising at 11 year high.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Story.aspx?guid={EB1271B8-89CC-4002-9369-DCA5D2945087}&siteid=

Looks like the Spi will get it's lead... down 

Dow 43 since announcement in the premarket. More #'s coming later.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> *Amazingly we are still getting over 600 hits a day on this thread:
> "Trading the SPI"*



768 hits since this time yesterday.....WOW!


----------



## Bronte

Dow down 60 points overnight
SPI back to 4950
Going nowhere.


----------



## neo

Morning all,

Today should be interesting.
Sycom down to 4949. 
Rate rise expected to be announced at 0930...will be interesting if it doesnt eventuate !!
Commodities showed gains overnight.
I'll be looking for a long trade opportunity near the open....
Any thoughts.


----------



## Bronte

Well we have our rise in interest rates...as expected (Now 6% +0.25%)
Gold Up $12 overnight.

Perth M.H.P.  Now $455,000 +38%


----------



## neo

Trade entry long at 4935.
Stop loss triggered at 4929.
Long re-entry at 4926.
Anyone trading today ?
Any thoughts?


----------



## Ageo

neo i suspect the A200 should rally at some point today (perhaps later in the day) but i wont enter until more confirmation is shown


----------



## Sensei

neo said:
			
		

> Trade entry long at 4935.
> Stop loss triggered at 4929.
> Long re-entry at 4926.
> Anyone trading today ?
> Any thoughts?



Not positions at the moment ... it's taken a good whack ... wasn't keen on taking a long and the short looked tempting but couldn't pull the trigger ... let's see if it finds support after the first 30min


----------



## Ageo

ill jump into the chat if any1 cares to join


----------



## Sean K

I have a question for you ageo if you go to chat now.


----------



## neo

Exited long position again at 4926.
Overall down 6 pts.....could be worse !


----------



## Bronte

You have the right idea neo.
You are just a little bit trigger happy


----------



## Bronte

What can you see in the above SPI chart neo? ......anybody?


----------



## Ageo

its found support @ 4905 and a double bottom as formed?


----------



## Bronte

Excellent Ageo  
Double Bottom
Previous proven Support
Oversold.

A great place to go Long.(don't you think?)
Stoploss just on the downside of our Support
Risk 6 points
Reward ???? *a lot more *  

Anything else anybody?????
What do you see??


----------



## Ageo

well it would look like a nice to time to jump in although i trade the A200 not the SPI so its a tad different.


P.S do i get a cookie for answering correctly?

hehe


----------



## sails

Bronte said:
			
		

> Excellent Ageo
> Double Bottom
> Previous proven Support
> Oversold.
> 
> A great place to go Long.(don't you think?)
> Stoploss just on the downside of our Support
> Risk 6 points
> Reward ???? *a lot more *
> 
> Anything else anybody?????
> What do you see??




Two equal ranges of about 70 pts each


----------



## professor_frink

I think you deserve a cookie ageo  



			
				bronte said:
			
		

> Anything else anybody?????
> What do you see??




resistance @ 4940.

Please send my cookie to-

professor frink,
Aussie Stock Forums,
The Internet.


----------



## Bronte

Fantastic Margaret  
Anything else  ???


----------



## Bronte

Ageo said:
			
		

> well it would look like a nice to time to jump in although i trade the A200 not the SPI so its a tad different.



Ageo / prof
It doesn't matter what you are trading guys
All of our markets have charts


----------



## Ageo

lol Bronte looks like you will need alot of cookies


----------



## Ageo

Bronte said:
			
		

> Ageo / prof
> It doesn't matter what you are trading guys
> All of our markets have charts




true but i only watch the A200 chart so my entry/exits are based on that.

But i dont mind a bit of trivia every now and then


----------



## Bronte

What else can you see ???


----------



## Hopeful

If it goes beloew that support then a cross of the 200 EMA is a relatively high possibility. If that happens chances are that we will have some nice volitility for the rest of the week and next week too - great for SPI day traders. I'm watching, might even trade the SPI today.


----------



## professor_frink

bronte said:
			
		

> What else can you see ???




I'm gunna have to give up on that one


----------



## Bronte

professor_frink said:
			
		

> resistance @ 4940



Missed this professor...sorry. 
Of course you are correct and deserve a cookie.
Yesterday Support becomes todays Resistance.
Battman showed a lot of Gann Resistance here on todays daygraph.
We are still showing a small GAP here  
Gaps are always a sign of strength.


----------



## professor_frink

bronte said:
			
		

> Battman showed a lot of Gann Resistance here on todays daygraph.




Interesting. I had that level as a weekly pivot point-I'm only just beginning to play around with these, so they may not may not make the finky grade permanently(although they've been bang on the money so far this week(5005 &4940)  



			
				bronte said:
			
		

> We are still showing a small GAP here
> Gaps are always a sign of strength.




I wouldn't have thought that counted as a gap that needed to be covered. monday's low was below today's high  
Just my thoughts though  What do you think?


----------



## Bronte

True.  
Still considered a sign of strength though.
Didn't reach yesterdays Low of 4940
Todays High 4939


----------



## Hopeful

For what it's worth, based on the 6 hour chart the SPI has issued a strong sell signal, me thinks a cross of the 200 EMA is very likely now. I shorted it just before but jumped out due to my human weaknesses  



BTW Bronte, why don't you use candlestick charts - they are so much clearer. That chart just looks like a stack of scattered twigs.

How many stacks of twigs could a twig stacker stack if a twig stacker could stack twigs? :homer:


----------



## Bronte

I suppose it is what you get used to.
W D Gann used bar charts.


----------



## professor_frink

Bronte said:
			
		

> True.
> Still considered a sign of strength though.
> Didn't reach yesterdays Low of 4940
> Todays High 4939




fair enough then.  



			
				Hopeful said:
			
		

> For what it's worth, based on the 6 hour chart the SPI has issued a strong sell signal, me thinks a cross of the 200 EMA is very likely now. I shorted it just before but jumped out due to my human weaknesses
> 
> 
> 
> BTW Bronte, why don't you use candlestick charts - they are so much clearer. That chart just looks like a stack of scattered twigs.
> 
> How many stacks of twigs could a twig stacker stack if a twig stacker could stack twigs? :homer:




6 hour? how much different is that to a daily chart hopeful?
Can you post one as an example?


----------



## Ageo

Dropping bad atm.


----------



## Bronte

Ageo said:
			
		

> Dropping bad atm.



Yes, Very badly:


----------



## Ageo

thats why i didnt take a long position.

wanted to see some stability 1st


----------



## Hopeful

Professor, my charting software doesn't let me save charts in the usual formats. I am using intra-day charts and I like to include all the data - not just the day session. I like to use 360 min charts to give my the big picture as a very short term trader.

This is nothing more than a guess based on experience, but I think the SPI will probably react from around 4872 but then drop below it for a nice run down. After that I don't know yet.

You can see what I'm seeing here 

http://www.futuresource.com/charts/charts.jsp?s=ASIU06&o=&a=V:360&z=800x550&d=LOW&b=CANDLE&st=

Draw an imaginary line under the candle bodies.


----------



## nat

hi there hopeful ,i was just wondering do future source show vol on there charts ,i treid to put vol and open intereest into the chart but came up with nothing,thanx Nathan


----------



## professor_frink

Hopeful said:
			
		

> Professor, my charting software doesn't let me save charts in the usual formats. I am using intra-day charts and I like to include all the data - not just the day session. I like to use 360 min charts to give my the big picture as a very short term trader.
> 
> This is nothing more than a guess based on experience, but I think the SPI will probably react from around 4872 but then drop below it for a nice run down. After that I don't know yet.
> 
> You can see what I'm seeing here
> 
> http://www.futuresource.com/charts/charts.jsp?s=ASIU06&o=&a=V:360&z=800x550&d=LOW&b=CANDLE&st=
> 
> Draw an imaginary line under the candle bodies.




Thanks for that hopeful. I see where your coming from now.


----------



## professor_frink

nat said:
			
		

> hi there hopeful ,i was just wondering do future source show vol on there charts ,i treid to put vol and open intereest into the chart but came up with nothing,thanx Nathan




nat,
you can only use the vol/OI on daily charts. It won't show it intraday.


----------



## nat

ok ,well worth a try ,thanx, Nat


----------



## Ageo

Went long @ 4924 but got stopped out @ 4914.


minus $200

not to worry, market just didnt agree with me


----------



## Sensei

Ageo said:
			
		

> Went long @ 4924 but got stopped out @ 4914.
> minus $200
> not to worry, market just didnt agree with me



yep ... noticed they're moving it enough (5-10 points) to shake out any stops they can ... playing games with it as they have for a couple of sessions


----------



## Ageo

Sensei said:
			
		

> yep ... noticed they're moving it enough (5-10 points) to shake out any stops they can ... playing games with it as they have for a couple of sessions





doest matter, i will get them back (but with a bigger move).

tomorrow morning should be interesting.

We still have the rest of today aswell but i doubt anything will happen


----------



## Sensei

Ageo said:
			
		

> doest matter, i will get them back (but with a bigger move).
> tomorrow morning should be interesting.
> 
> We still have the rest of today aswell but i doubt anything will happen



lol ... good attitude Ageo ... sink the baskets


----------



## Ageo

might be a late breakout but i will need double confirmation


----------



## Sensei

Ageo said:
			
		

> might be a late breakout but i will need double confirmation



gives the impression of wanting to the downside ... but could be a false break then fade and reverse


----------



## Ageo

this market is wacked today.

Up down up down it seems if you go in your gonna get chopped up.

Tomorrow will be a brighter day, payback


----------



## astojic86

Hi 

How do you trade the Spi?

I have a commsec account can I trade using that? 
Does anyone know what is the cheapest brokerage?
How does it work someone said 25$ a point? 
Also I might get a Mac Bank CFD account can I trade using cfd?


I am new to this thread I was reading it but I couldn;t go through the last 120 pages to find the answers, i had a look on the net but didn;t fgind much 

thanks in advance


----------



## Bronte

Nice BIG range days and HIGH Volume in the SPI
4882 is / was our Gann Support for today
Maybe a "Happy Hour" trade


----------



## Sensei

astojic86 said:
			
		

> Hi
> How do you trade the Spi?
> I have a commsec account can I trade using that?
> Does anyone know what is the cheapest brokerage?
> How does it work someone said 25$ a point?
> Also I might get a Mac Bank CFD account can I trade using cfd?
> I am new to this thread I was reading it but I couldn;t go through the last 120 pages to find the answers, i had a look on the net but didn;t fgind much
> thanks in advance



Asto ... get a copy of Brent Penfolds book Trading the SPI (about $40 at bookstore or free to read from yr local library) ... read it carefully once ... re-read ...  by then you may be scared out of yr wits and lose all interest ... or it'll give you a buzz and provide you with a good basis for starting yr longer term education.


----------



## Sensei

love to know how many stops got taken out today between the range 4895 and 4905  ... and how many traders kept coming back to re-try.


----------



## Bronte

Or grab a cup of tea / coffee...maybe a TimTam or two
Sit at your computer and read the whole of this thread:
"Trading the SPI"
Good luck


----------



## mit

astro,

You can't trade the spi using Commsec or Mac CFDs (Although Macquarie has promised an index cfd).

$25 a point means exactly that. Today ranged about 50 points so you could have lost $1250 per contract if you got it wrong. Some of us use CFD indexes which can be as low as $1 per point (CMC Aussie200 CFD) which is a much cheaper and fun way to learn.

And by all means read Ben Penfold's book.

MIT


----------



## Sensei

Bronte ... you enter a trade today? .. wasn't clear in yr earlier post


----------



## Bronte

Yes several Sensei 
(we trade every day)
I am happily sitting on profit  

Thanks mit, there is a link somewhere 
in this thread to Brents book.


----------



## Sean K

You guys have got me very interested in this 'trading the SPI' business. 

Starting a trial with CMC tomorrow.


----------



## Bronte

*"Good on you kennas"
The very best of luck  *


----------



## Bronte

Todays SPI Chart:


----------



## Freddo

This thread is becoming really active!

Really enjoying reading your posts everyone...

I'm still on the sidelines, really hanging out for my signals
to line up! Must be patient though.

You can read more about Brent's book at
www.indextrader.com.au

PS I have no association with Brent, just got great value out of his book

Regards

Freddo


----------



## Bronte

Thanks Freddo,
Well over 600 hits per day.
Japan / UK / NZ / Oz   
Let us hope for more input from watchers.


----------



## Ageo

kennas said:
			
		

> You guys have got me very interested in this 'trading the SPI' business.
> 
> Starting a trial with CMC tomorrow.





Kennas great to hear, just so your aware CMC is CFD's which trades the aussie200 not the SPI (very similar thow).

Just letting you know mate thats all


P.S welcome onboard


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Thanks Freddo,
> Well over 600 hits per day.
> Japan / UK / NZ / Oz
> Let us hope for more input from watchers.



One of our traders says that at 07.00AM this morning the count was 84,368
We are now 85,353+ hits......that is nearly 1000 hits in 12 1/2 hours


----------



## Freddo

Got a grren light early this evening
I'm currently holding a short position


----------



## Bronte

Freddo!!!! Very brave call.

7.00AM 85,698 hits *+1330 * on this time yesterday Phew!

Dow + 74.2 overnight.

SPI now back to our 4940 Support / Resistance Area


----------



## mit

Freddo said:
			
		

> Got a grren light early this evening
> I'm currently holding a short position




Freddo,

At what price?

Mit


----------



## professor_frink

Bronte said:
			
		

> Freddo!!!! Very brave call.
> 
> 7.00AM 85,698 hits *+1330 * on this time yesterday Phew!
> 
> Dow + 74.2 overnight.
> 
> SPI now back to our 4940 Support / Resistance Area




4940 seems to be the level for the week. Every major move this week has either begun or ended in this area!

Now that I've said that, watch for it to do the exact opposite today


----------



## Ageo

there might be some early profit taking off the open.

If there is ill be on it like a lion on a wilderbeast!


----------



## Bronte

professor_frink said:
			
		

> resistance @ 4940.



Yes professor and you called this Support / Resistance yesterday
Well done!  Now todays question...Do you know why????


----------



## Ageo

Bronte said:
			
		

> Yes professor and you called this Support / Resistance yesterday
> Well done!  Now todays question...Do you know why????




he doesnt need to know why.

He's Professor Frink!


----------



## neo

Hi all,
Open 4965....that seems high.
I'm short at 4966.........


----------



## mit

professor_frink said:
			
		

> 4940 seems to be the level for the week. Every major move this week has either begun or ended in this area!
> 
> Now that I've said that, watch for it to do the exact opposite today





Rather than a support or resistance it seems to be acting as an attractor. I've thought so since last Friday. I've taken profits there twice this week (Short at 5016 on Monday and Long at 4913 Yesterday afternoon).

Most of us have had the trend-following/trailing stop dogma* drilled into us but I think in this market until we break out of the range, trading to 4950 (CMC is 10 pips different from the SPI) from around 40-50 pips out from 4950 with wider stops than normal seems to be what the market is telling us. The trick is to see when the market has stopped ranging because when it breaks this 4900-5000 range there is a wider 4800 to 5100 range to break out of.

MIT

*Shouldn't say dogma because anyone who backtests knows that trend following over time gives great rewards just that the market sometimes shows that something else will work.


----------



## mit

neo said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> Open 4965....that seems high.
> I'm short at 4966.........




Damn MarketMaker froze at the open.


----------



## Bronte

neo said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> Open 4965....that seems high.
> I'm short at 4966.........



Great call neo....I am with you  
I have taken +4 and +8 profit
Might sell again later


----------



## professor_frink

Bronte said:
			
		

> Yes professor and you called this Support / Resistance yesterday
> Well done!  Now todays question...Do you know why????




Called it yesterday- had the number on friday. It's a weekly pivot point. Do I know why it's held so well? Not at all  



			
				ageo said:
			
		

> he doesnt need to know why.
> 
> He's Professor Frink!




Damn right I am Ageo  

Maybe that level has something to do with the pickle matrix :


----------



## nat

ha ha ,the pickle matrix ,thats funny


----------



## professor_frink

mit said:
			
		

> Rather than a support or resistance it seems to be acting as an attractor. I've thought so since last Friday. I've taken profits there twice this week (Short at 5016 on Monday and Long at 4913 Yesterday afternoon).
> 
> Most of us have had the trend-following/trailing stop dogma* drilled into us but I think in this market until we break out of the range, trading to 4950 (CMC is 10 pips different from the SPI) from around 40-50 pips out from 4950 with wider stops than normal seems to be what the market is telling us. The trick is to see when the market has stopped ranging because when it breaks this 4900-5000 range there is a wider 4800 to 5100 range to break out of.
> 
> MIT
> 
> *Shouldn't say dogma because anyone who backtests knows that trend following over time gives great rewards just that the market sometimes shows that something else will work.





Yes trend following over time works the best for position trading, but has it been tested much on intraday trading? From what I've seen, finding levels to trade off seems to be a better way to go intraday. There doesn't seem to be much in the way of intraday trends that can be caught using trend following methods. The amount of range bound days seem to outnumber the trend days by quite a margin.What do you think mit?


----------



## Ageo

i went short @ 4981 as RSI was 98 over bought and also based on profit taking from the start.

I have moved my stop to breakeven but not sure if its going move down further.

Materials seems to be keeping it up


----------



## nat

why s it stopped ,the shorts covering?


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Great call neo....I am with you
> I have taken +4 and +8 profit
> Might sell again later



SPI is trying to get back to 4940 level
We have seen 4946 Low:


----------



## Ageo

materials sector is surging!


----------



## mit

professor_frink said:
			
		

> Yes trend following over time works the best for position trading, but has it been tested much on intraday trading? From what I've seen, finding levels to trade off seems to be a better way to go intraday. There doesn't seem to be much in the way of intraday trends that can be caught using trend following methods. The amount of range bound days seem to outnumber the trend days by quite a margin.What do you think mit?




Prof,

Yes, I agree for intraday, but I was looking at longer term of 1-2 days and basically buying or selling based on the distance from this particular pivot.

MIT


----------



## professor_frink

mit said:
			
		

> Prof,
> 
> Yes, I agree for intraday, but I was looking at longer term of 1-2 days and basically buying or selling based on the distance from this particular pivot.
> 
> MIT




Using some kind of trend following method to catch those kind of moves could be a valid way to trade. Using something like a 20 period sma can work as a trailing stop. When the market gets moving, I've found it can sometimes act as S/R during the move. Haven't looked at it enough to use it all the time though


----------



## Ageo

Stopped out @ 4981.

Breakeven

Amazing its holding up, materials is hammering today.

Anywayz will wait and see if it makes a breakout over the EMA's.


----------



## mit

professor_frink said:
			
		

> Using some kind of trend following method to catch those kind of moves could be a valid way to trade. Using something like a 20 period sma can work as a trailing stop. When the market gets moving, I've found it can sometimes act as S/R during the move. Haven't looked at it enough to use it all the time though




It something I have been thinking about for awhile trading the reversion to the mean (or trading the noise).  Instead of getting a few big winners, a number of ordinary winners and a lot of losers, you get a lot of winners but a few large losses. The losses come when the market starts trending because you are basically trading against any trend that develops.

The hard part is to determine when you are trending again because if we break the 4900-5000 range we have a 4800-5100 range as well.

MIT


----------



## nat

hey ageo was just wondering why you rode it down then right back up agin ,as was aginst the flow to start with and you used a big trailing stop and all ind still in the positive .Not telling you how to trade ,just curious
Nathan


----------



## Ageo

nat said:
			
		

> hey ageo was just wondering why you rode it down then right back up agin ,as was aginst the flow to start with and you used a big trailing stop and all ind still in the positive .Not telling you how to trade ,just curious
> Nathan




the reason why i did that nat because usually on big opens it tends to reverse off the bat (i.e profit take) and so i was looking for a move down to 4945 (gravitation) and then it presents a buying opportunity for people to move back in.

 Today thow it didnt want to go down. Not to worry i didnt lose anything, but there have been some days like a few days ago when the dow was up 118 points the XJO opened very high but then dropped 90 points from the word go.

Id rather wait for those moves then try to guess when its going to turn (thats what a trailing stop is for).

my stops are 10 points away (usually now) so if i lose 5 trades but then get 1 big 1 im even or infront.

make sense?


----------



## professor_frink

mit said:
			
		

> It something I have been thinking about for awhile trading the reversion to the mean (or trading the noise).  Instead of getting a few big winners, a number of ordinary winners and a lot of losers, you get a lot of winners but a few large losses. The losses come when the market starts trending because you are basically trading against any trend that develops.
> 
> The hard part is to determine when you are trending again because if we break the 4900-5000 range we have a 4800-5100 range as well.
> 
> MIT




So how would you go about doing that? I gather it would mainly revolve around fading gap openings with a target in mind(for example 4940 today).

And to the hard part- knowing when it's trending and when it's range bound. Well that would be getting close to the holy grail! For me, if I'm fishing for a top or bottom, then I won't be waiting around too long to find out just how wrong I am-even if it means missing the occasional move!


----------



## nat

yeh no worries,makes sense,Iwent long at 10.08 after pin bar ,or hammer formed on 2 min chart and failed to stay below 22 ema ,i took some profit on next 2 min bar then used 6ema for rest but got stopped out at break even for rest,in hindsight using the 22 ema for trailing stop woulve worked better as price didnt race ahead just meandered upNathan


----------



## Bronte

Nice to see that this thread is now *very* active.
Traders making and losing money. 
That is all that we ever wanted.
To help others...Thank yous all


----------



## Bronte

"Trading the SPI" is NOT easy
Although it is a lot of fun   
Battman & I say: "Thank you"


----------



## nat

What ever did happen to battman? nathan


----------



## Ageo

boring day today,

hope tomorrow has more action


----------



## nat

yes is a bit ,was starting to get used to large range days ,so you think it mightnt pick up much today ?
Nathan


----------



## mit

professor_frink said:
			
		

> So how would you go about doing that? I gather it would mainly revolve around fading gap openings with a target in mind(for example 4940 today).
> 
> And to the hard part- knowing when it's trending and when it's range bound. Well that would be getting close to the holy grail! For me, if I'm fishing for a top or bottom, then I won't be waiting around too long to find out just how wrong I am-even if it means missing the occasional move!




Prof,

Not even fading opens. It would be having limit orders shorting 5000 and going long 4900 at the moment, with additional orders at say 4850 and 5050 etc. You would leave the orders in until they hit profit or the bail-out point which could be 4750/5150 atm. As this is hell of a loose stop the orders would neccessarily be small individually but you would not have any losses until it hit the stops. Now for the following setup on the short side could be:


Short 1 at 5000 Cover at 4950 Profit 50
Short 1 at 5050 Cover at 4950 Profit 100
Short 1 at 5100 Cover at 4950 Profit 150
Stop at 5150

and at the long side

Long 1 at 4900 Sell at 4950
Long 1 at 4850 Sell at 4950
Long 1 at 4800 Sell at 4950


Now worse case it is it goes up to 5150 first time with no retracement back to 4950 with a loss of 150 + 100 + 50 loss or 300 pips, a bit rich for most of us on the SPI but CMC goes down to $1 per pip. The profit is that you get a number of bites of the cherry and make many relatively small wins and a very few large losses. You could also buy OTM XJO calls and puts to reduce the losses. Also if you have a long share portfolio the profits from your portfolio would cover the big loss.



I'm not saying that this is a particularly good example. The current 100pip range is unusual and will probably break one way or the other in a big way soon but it is a thought having an uncorrelated system


MIT


----------



## professor_frink

Interesting thoughts mit. Personally, I think swing trading off an hourly chart would give similar opportunities profit-wise, whilst allowing for much closer stops.

On the chart below, the green lines are weekly pivots, and there are potentially 4 good entries there, 2 long and 2 short. At least by setting up to trade off these levels, you can keep losses pretty small, and still catch the bulk of the swing.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> *SPI is trying to get back to 4940 level
> We have seen 4946 Low:*



Did not quite make 4940
We only saw a 4942 Low  
Doh! :homer:


----------



## Bronte

professor_frink said:
			
		

> 4940 seems to be the level for the week. Every major move this week has either begun or ended in this area!



Nice call professor


----------



## Bobby

mit said:
			
		

> Prof,
> 
> Not even fading opens. It would be having limit orders shorting 5000 and going long 4900 at the moment, with additional orders at say 4850 and 5050 etc. You would leave the orders in until they hit profit or the bail-out point which could be 4750/5150 atm. As this is hell of a loose stop the orders would neccessarily be small individually but you would not have any losses until it hit the stops. Now for the following setup on the short side could be:
> 
> 
> Short 1 at 5000 Cover at 4950 Profit 50
> Short 1 at 5050 Cover at 4950 Profit 100
> Short 1 at 5100 Cover at 4950 Profit 150
> Stop at 5150
> 
> and at the long side
> 
> Long 1 at 4900 Sell at 4950
> Long 1 at 4850 Sell at 4950
> Long 1 at 4800 Sell at 4950
> 
> 
> Now worse case it is it goes up to 5150 first time with no retracement back to 4950 with a loss of 150 + 100 + 50 loss or 300 pips, a bit rich for most of us on the SPI but CMC goes down to $1 per pip. The profit is that you get a number of bites of the cherry and make many relatively small wins and a very few large losses. You could also buy OTM XJO calls and puts to reduce the losses. Also if you have a long share portfolio the profits from your portfolio would cover the big loss.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not saying that this is a particularly good example. The current 100pip range is unusual and will probably break one way or the other in a big way soon but it is a thought having an uncorrelated system
> 
> 
> MIT



Hello Mit,

Like your thoughts on straddle trading, Iv'e looked into a methology of going long & short SPI~ XJO or short & long on same time frame, so far quick time volatillity could chop such plan .

Bob.


----------



## neo

Morning All,
The Trading the SPI thread had been pushed off the lastest forum topic page........ Couldn't have that!

Sycom closed at 4972.
Commodities down.
DJIA up 42.66
S&P up 1.72

Any thoughts for the day?
If open is around 4972 ish I think there is the possibility of an upward move!
Any thoughts?


----------



## Bronte

neo said:
			
		

> Morning All,
> The Trading the SPI thread had been pushed off the lastest forum topic page........ Couldn't have that!



Like your style neo  
Only 933 hits.


----------



## neo

Anyone trading today.
I went long at 4974....bugger....Stopped out at 4969.
Short at 4960...hopefully better! So far so good!
RBA statement on monetary policy due at 11:30  ????????


----------



## nat

HI neo ,yeh i went long at 4977 on cmc,out for 9 point loss ,another lesson learned ,trying to bottom pick ,it really is best in lonng run of going with the flow


----------



## Ageo

nat said:
			
		

> HI neo ,yeh i went long at 4977 on cmc,out for 9 point loss ,another lesson learned ,trying to bottom pick ,it really is best in lonng run of going with the flow





nat even thow i didnt short today the open but as you can see if i placed the exact same trade today i would have locked in a $600 profit so far.

but i wasnt comfortable placing the trade due to uncertainty.

anywayz never the less we might see a spike back up to open.


----------



## Bronte

neo said:
			
		

> Anyone trading today.?



Bought Gann Support at 4959 +4
Then it let go -4
Bought 4936 +2
That's my week done


----------



## nat

hi ageo ,yes i c what you mean ,oh well there will always be another day ,NAthan


----------



## Bronte

Yes...The train leaves the station every day


----------



## Sensei

Bronte said:
			
		

> Bought Gann Support at 4959 +4
> Then it let go -4
> Bought 4936 +2
> That's my week done



Bronte ... do I understand correctly that you went 
1. long @59 sold @63?
2. then short 4
3. then long @36 for 2 points gain?
For education can you show on a chart please?


----------



## Sensei

Sensei said:
			
		

> For education can you show on a chart please?



OK thanks ... posts crossed


----------



## Sensei

Sensei said:
			
		

> OK thanks ... posts crossed



hmmmmm .... odd the original post didn't have a chart ... maybe my screen didn't update properly?


----------



## nat

hey ageo couldve been 1200$ by now ,i cant believe ive just watched it continue falling,  wheres the bend at the end?Nathan


----------



## neo

Hi People,
Still short from 4960.
May go lower this afternoon possibly below 4900?????????
Its Friday afternoon.....has dropped all morning ..
Why would it go up again?


----------



## nat

hi neo glad to c some one benefitting out of this drop ,i missed my opportuinity at start then thought had gone to far and not game to try agin,,,of coarse it kept dropping .Nathan


----------



## Ageo

nat said:
			
		

> hey ageo couldve been 1200$ by now ,i cant believe ive just watched it continue falling,  wheres the bend at the end?Nathan




yes i know it can hurt but hey there are always trades like this.

The main thing is to learn from it and implement next time.

anywayz i made $500 net from a short MBL trade yesterday.

so im still a tad happy



P.S you see what i mean now about having those trailing stops in place. Even if i was wrong 3 times i would have lost $600 but 1 right trade could have put me in $600 profit.

small win/loss ratio but high reward/risk ratio


----------



## neo

looks like a run back up is getting established.
seems to be a lot of large hits on the ask?


----------



## Ageo

neo said:
			
		

> looks like a run back up is getting established.
> seems to be a lot of large hits on the ask?





could be a run back up but if its like the last week or so then you will get murdered as it will most likely bounce up and down now.

Funny that.....


----------



## Hopeful

Anyone else noticed the tight channel since July 15th? SPI has been in a trading range 4875-5020 for three weeks now. When she breaks out of it I guess we can expect some powerful moves from all that pent-up emotion. My money is on the downside. If I'm wrong I can expect :whip from my wife.


----------



## Ageo

Hopeful said:
			
		

> If I'm wrong I can expect :whip from my wife.




thats a good thing!   


and yes i have noticed the rangebounds it has been trading in.

Weird indeed


----------



## professor_frink

Hopeful said:
			
		

> Anyone else noticed the tight channel since July 15th? SPI has been in a trading range 4875-5020 for three weeks now. When she breaks out of it I guess we can expect some powerful moves from all that pent-up emotion. My money is on the downside. If I'm wrong I can expect :whip from my wife.




That's what stops are for hopeful! We should rename them anti-whipping orders


----------



## neo

run up still looks good!


----------



## neo

Maybe not!    
......you were right Ageo. 
In and out a few times for zip!
Did get most of todays down move though......46 pts!!!


----------



## Freddo

I'll feel like I have been through a blender
but I'm still short and now in the positive again


----------



## Bronte

Nice one neo, very well done 
Nice one Freddo, welcome back  
Interesting that profs number 4940
Todays mid point.
5 mins SPI chart:


----------



## Bronte

BIG Sycom movement overnight.
4971 High
4891 Low
Dow -2.2


----------



## pchivers

> BIG Sycom movement overnight.
> 4971 High

That was the December contract.  September hardly moved.


----------



## Bronte

pchivers said:
			
		

> > BIG Sycom movement overnight.
> > 4971 High
> That was the December contract.  September hardly moved.



Hi pchivers
My pager definately says Sep06
Just checked with Market Analyser Pro
Where are you getting your info.?


----------



## Bronte

S&P SPI 200 NIGHT Sep06
Vol 1726
Last 4917
H/L 4971  4891


----------



## wayneL

pchivers said:
			
		

> > BIG Sycom movement overnight.
> > 4971 High
> 
> That was the December contract.  September hardly moved.




APU6 Sycom last night


----------



## neo

Dec and Sept contracts both had a high of 4971... mind you the Dec volume was a big 3.

Sycom closed at 4917

Friday XJO close was 4956.1.
I would expect some catchup of the spi on Monday am (assuming it opens low). 
Any thoughts?
I will be looking for a long trade near the open!
Bronte, as per your previous posts, is this a day when you would trade the 'spi discount' assuming it opens near 4917 on Monday?


----------



## Bronte

neo said:
			
		

> Dec and Sept contracts both had a high of 4971... mind you the Dec volume was a big 3.
> Sycom closed at 4917
> Friday XJO close was 4956.1.
> I would expect some catchup of the spi on Monday am (assuming it opens low). Any thoughts?
> I will be looking for a long trade near the open!
> Bronte, as per your previous posts, is this a day when you would trade the 'spi discount' assuming it opens near 4917 on Monday?



Yes neo, We would be looking to Buy a low open.
Hopefully Battman64 can give us some Gann Support around here


----------



## Bronte

wayneL said:
			
		

> APU6 Sycom last night



Thank you Wayne / neo.
For your confirmation.


----------



## Bronte

Hopefully we see a "Breakout" soon  
SPI Daily chart:


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Hopefully we see a "Breakout" soon
> SPI Daily chart:



Up or Down ???   Doesn't really matter or does it ???


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Up or Down ???   Doesn't really matter or does it ???




Not to a daytrader. However, there are those to who it will matter a great deal


----------



## Ageo

wayneL said:
			
		

> Not to a daytrader. However, there are those to who it will matter a great deal




to a long term investor?


----------



## Ageo

Boring day today

hopefully later on some action presents itself


----------



## neo

Has been an unpredictable morning.
I think though that the days high has been and gone.........any thoughts?
I went long near the open and got stopped out.
Short now from 4929.


----------



## Ageo

neo said:
			
		

> Has been an unpredictable morning.
> I think though that the days high has been and gone.........any thoughts?
> I went long near the open and got stopped out.
> Short now from 4929.





hoping it moves down so when it rally's back up ill catch that.


----------



## Freddo

I exited my position for -5 based on time stop


----------



## wayneL

Ageo said:
			
		

> to a long term investor?




Not really!


----------



## Bronte

Todays 5 min SPI Chart:
(we missed the Sydneysiders)


----------



## Bronte

Back Down to 4903/5 on Sycom -30 pts


----------



## Freddo

Geeting set for a reentry on the short side


----------



## Bronte

Dow - 21 points
Sycom Low 4890
Closed at 4929


----------



## professor_frink

And now, a random thought from the professor............

slight bias to the shortside this morning- have today's pivot @4927, 1st res level @4945,1st sup level @4917.  With the dow off slightly o/n, and the weekly pivot(which gave a couple of good sell signals yest.) @ 4936, there may be the opportunity to go short on a move below the daily or weekly pivot if it's available  

Have a good day folks


----------



## Sensei

she done a runner ....... bias may be flipping ... if we get *XJO close > 4980's * then we will see a continuation of the bullish leg.  The only cloud on the horizon is the political input which is highly volatile and explosive (not a pun!).  If a ceasefire and some peace prevails ... it'll run even more.


----------



## Ageo

Sensei said:
			
		

> she done a runner ....... bias may be flipping ... if we get *XJO close > 4980's * then we will see a continuation of the bullish leg.  The only cloud on the horizon is the political input which is highly volatile and explosive (not a pun!).  If a ceasefire and some peace prevails ... it'll run even more.




yep it went nutz!

lets see what the afternoon session does


----------



## professor_frink

SOME FOOL said:
			
		

> slight bias to the shortside this morning




hahahahaha!!!!

With market calls like that I could get a job working for CNBC  

My bias lasted for the entire short trade this morning- about 8 mins  



> there may be the opportunity to go short on a move below the daily or weekly pivot if it's available




at least I got that part right


----------



## Ageo

your story might be true Frink, im short bias in the arvo session.


----------



## professor_frink

Ageo said:
			
		

> your story might be true Frink, im short bias in the arvo session.




Fngers crossed! Not that it matters much. Well, except for a small matter of pride! No more pre market calls for frinky


----------



## Bronte

It was a very brave call prof.
Not many are game to have a go


----------



## Bronte

Well battmans day graph showed *Strong Buys* around a *Gann Support * of 4910/12
Missed getting set twice.
Lots of frustration Sold 39 
Sold again at 4950  
Will I ever learn?


----------



## professor_frink

Bronte said:
			
		

> Well battmans day graph showed *Buys* around a *Gann Support * of 4910/12
> Missed getting set twice.
> Lots of frustration Sold 39
> Sold again at 4950
> Will I ever learn?




was the double bottom just above that level good enough for an entry bronte? Or do you want the level to be hit before entering?


----------



## Bronte

Bad day at the office today.


----------



## Bronte

professor_frink said:
			
		

> was the double bottom just above that level good enough for an entry bronte? Or do you want the level to be hit before entering?



Good enough prof.
You should get in any way you can.....If happy with the "Risk:Reward"


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Bad day at the office today.



Yesterday was a 180 degree Gann timeframe.
So we were expecting a good move today


----------



## Ageo

im tempted to go short atm but im waiting for another crossover. I have been noticing thow that the 1st moves are usually big ones (as i said in a previous post).

arvo session should be good


----------



## professor_frink

oh well, there's always tomorrow


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Yesterday was a 180 degree Gann timeframe.
> So we were expecting a good move today



It may not be over


----------



## Ageo

professor_frink said:
			
		

> oh well, there's always tomorrow




lol thats true, but when you say that for 3 days in a row your finger starts to get a little itchy!


----------



## Bronte

Very true Ageo.


----------



## professor_frink

Ageo said:
			
		

> lol thats true, but when you say that for 3 days in a row your finger starts to get a little itchy!




How does that saying go? Patience is a vir.... Ah bugger that!! Buy buy buy!!


----------



## Ageo

professor_frink said:
			
		

> How does that saying go? Patience is a vir.... Ah bugger that!! Buy buy buy!!




LOLOL that was me today "Ahhhh fk it!!!"

and i lost 10 points hehe

hopefully if it runs back down i catch it


----------



## professor_frink

Ageo said:
			
		

> LOLOL that was me today "Ahhhh fk it!!!"
> 
> and i lost 10 points hehe
> 
> hopefully if it runs back down i catch it




did you get your money back ageo? We got a bit of a run down this arfternoon


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> It may not be over



"Happy Half Hour"
New High
4994


----------



## Bronte

4997 Looks like the High for today


----------



## Bronte

That would have been +84 points from Battman's *Gann Support*

Doh! :homer:  as it was I took a  :bath:


----------



## Bronte

Todays BIG day


----------



## Ageo

professor_frink said:
			
		

> did you get your money back ageo? We got a bit of a run down this arfternoon




wasnt watching the market at the time.

ah well there is always tomorrow!


----------



## Bronte

Hopefully we will "Breakout and close the Gap" soon!


----------



## nizar

Bronte said:
			
		

> Hopefully we will "Breakout and close the Gap" soon!




it all depends on the DOW 2nite

monday was either the last chance to buy before the bull comes back or 2day was a mad day 2 lock in profits....


----------



## neo

What will happen today?
Fed pauses on interest rates..
DJIA and S&P down by 45.79 and 4.29 respectively.
Sycom down to 4977 .......


----------



## Ageo

neo said:
			
		

> What will happen today?
> Fed pauses on interest rates..
> DJIA and S&P down by 45.79 and 4.29 respectively.
> Sycom down to 4977 .......





no idea, but in a few hours you i will tell you


----------



## Bronte

Physical 5025
SPI 4975
No Gap


----------



## neo

Could be a good day!
SPI open 4965.
I'm long at 4961....bugger , down a bit at the moment.
Should come back up........I hope!


----------



## Ageo

neo said:
			
		

> Should come back up........I hope!




dont count your chickens too soon, looks like it might retrace 1st then rally


----------



## Bronte

Not getting Buy signals as yet.
I have Gann Support at 4915


----------



## Ageo

My 1st major support on the A200 is 4940 and so far it seems to be holding.


----------



## Bronte

4919 Low


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Not getting Buy signals as yet.
> I have Gann Support at 4915



Bought 4915
Now 4918


----------



## Ageo

Ageo said:
			
		

> I have been noticing thow that the 1st moves are usually big ones (as i said in a previous post).




again!!!

why dont i just trust myself? hehe 

hmmm tomorrow i shall implement what i have been noticing.


----------



## Ageo

Bronte said:
			
		

> Bought 4915
> Now 4918





ill wait until it clears up a little bit because this baby looks like its going to clean up all the buyers thats in the way.


----------



## nat

Dont worry ageo your not alone ,surely we must be learning more and our brains will figure it out one dayNathan


----------



## Bronte

Seen 4912  
Now 4919 +4
Taken some profit


----------



## Ageo

nat said:
			
		

> Dont worry ageo your not alone ,surely we must be learning more and our brains will figure it out one dayNathan





A200 is 4930 if it moves around 4920 or so ill be tempted to jump on with a 10 point stop loss buffer

*moving down as we speak*


----------



## Bronte

4910 Double Bottom
Now 4916  +1 
That's me out
+4 +1


----------



## Bronte

Out too soon
Now 4921 +6
Never mind  
Thank you Mr Gann.


----------



## Bronte

*Bought Gann Support 4915*
Took +4 +1   
SPI Now 4924 +9  Doh!


----------



## Ageo

Had enough of watching, i wanna lose some money!  

Long 20 contracts @ 4928 A200

Stop is 4918


----------



## Sensei

... excuse my ignorance or audacity to even ask ... but can someone explain to me the logic behind entering a trade counter to the morning trend with a move of 50 odd points and trying to pick up 1 point and 4 points?  What is the risk/reward etc for such a trade?  I don't expect a reply, but it just seems like a lot of crock is being spewed.  Hope no-one is following or relying on such trades.  This market will chew you up and spit you out.  Prefer to hang onto the coat tails of the big boys, follow their lead and secure a few points in their wake.  Otherwise it's like trying to surf against the direction of the waves.


----------



## Bronte

Nice observation Sensei.
If the Gann Support had held stronger.
I would have been in for a much larger Reward


----------



## Ageo

Sensei said:
			
		

> ... excuse my ignorance or audacity to even ask ... but can someone explain to me the logic behind entering a trade counter to the morning trend with a move of 50 odd points and trying to pick up 1 point and 4 points?  What is the risk/reward etc for such a trade?  I don't expect a reply, but it just seems like a lot of crock is being spewed.  Hope no-one is following or relying on such trades.  This market will chew you up and spit you out.  Prefer to hang onto the coat tails of the big boys, follow their lead and secure a few points in their wake.  Otherwise it's like trying to surf against the direction of the waves.





Sensei i totally agree, but i had to enter a trade or else i was gonna break the laptop so im happy to lose $200 if the trade goes sour (at least im happy again lol).

Better $200 then a new laptop eh?

hehe


----------



## Bronte

Sensei,
Please can you call one of your trades *LIVE*
Or if you wish call the trade before it happens 
As this trade was called today...Buy Support etc


----------



## professor_frink

Bronte,

In regards to your trade today, the S/R level you posted was pretty well the same as yest. Do your S/R levels carry over at all? 

Surely one of those levels  you were trying to short yest would have provided a short entry this morning, and you had a pretty good target level in the 4910/12 area- lots of chances to take a hefty profit.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Not getting Buy signals as yet.
> *I have Gann Support at 4915 *



*10.12AM*


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> *Bought 4915*
> Now 4918



*10.29AM*


----------



## Bronte

As previously posted, If 4915 had held stronger.....
+4 +8 +12 +16 +20 etc

You are correct professor we always allow for TIME.


----------



## professor_frink

Ageo said:
			
		

> Sensei i totally agree, but i had to enter a trade or else i was gonna break the laptop so im happy to lose $200 if the trade goes sour (at least im happy again lol).
> 
> Better $200 then a new laptop eh?
> 
> hehe




If you really need to do something Ageo, why don't you burn and blow up people with a giant magnifying glass- always works a treat for me  

here's the link-

antcity 



			
				bronte said:
			
		

> As previously posted, If 4915 had held stronger.....
> +4 +8 +12 +16 +20 etc
> 
> You are correct professor we always allow for TIME.




I'm not quite sure how that answers my question bronte! Oh well.


----------



## Ageo

professor_frink said:
			
		

> If you really need to do something Ageo, why don't you burn and blow up people with a giant magnifying glass- always works a treat for me




haha thanks (its in German thow?)

anywayz my trade is making money???

its supposed to lose money!!!


----------



## Bronte

professor_frink said:
			
		

> Bronte,
> In regards to your trade today, the S/R level you posted was pretty well the same as yest. Do your S/R levels carry over at all? *yes*
> Surely one of those levels you were trying to short yest would have provided a short entry this morning, and you had a pretty good target level in the 4910/12 area- lots of chances to take a hefty profit.*Agreed*



Many of our Gann Support / Resistance areas get adjusted due to TIME


----------



## Bronte

Trade what you see.
The chart shows that we were well _oversold_
ASX was @ 4955
SPI was @ 4915 *Down 40 points*
We had Natural Support (Previous Bottoms 4913 / 10)
We had *Gann Support * (you know these work  )
Small Risk with possible Large Reward.


----------



## professor_frink

Bronte said:
			
		

> Many of our Gann Support / Resistance areas get adjusted due to TIME




Ok thanks bronte.



			
				ageo said:
			
		

> haha thanks (its in German thow?)
> 
> anywayz my trade is making money???
> 
> its supposed to lose money!!!




That's weird- I copied the address from my bookmarks folder and it's in English 

edit: money or not- overtrading will get you Ageo. Play cheesy online games. Send abusive emails to your most hated celebrity. Beat a small child at monopoly and make fun of them for it. Whatever it is, it will help to stop taking trades that are less than perfect


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Sensei, *or anyone else*
> Please can you call one of your trades *LIVE*
> Or if you wish call the trade before it happens
> As this trade was called today...Buy Support etc



Just for analysis / education purposes. Thanks


----------



## Bronte

Of course I will keep posting my Support / Resistance areas


----------



## Ageo

Well i closed out the trade as i feel there is more downside to come.

+1 point but i feel better for trading regardless of the outcome.

Now back to business


----------



## Ageo

professor_frink said:
			
		

> Ok thanks bronte.
> 
> 
> 
> That's weird- I copied the address from my bookmarks folder and it's in English
> 
> edit: money or not- overtrading will get you Ageo. Play cheesy online games. Send abusive emails to your most hated celebrity. Beat a small child at monopoly and make fun of them for it. Whatever it is, it will help to stop taking trades that are less than perfect





hehe Frink thanks for the advice mate but i havent been over trading. Just i hadnt traded the A200 since 5 days ago and i got a little itchy. But i have made over $1500 during that time on other trades (shares/oil/gold/FX).

But i do agree with you beating young kids at monopoly is by far the best satisfaction hehe.


----------



## Sensei

Ageo said:
			
		

> Sensei i totally agree, but i had to enter a trade or else i was gonna break the laptop so im happy to lose $200 if the trade goes sour (at least im happy again lol).
> Better $200 then a new laptop eh?
> hehe



... lol ... Ageo please understand ... my comments weren't directed at your trade.  I can sympathise with your comments though.


----------



## Bronte

So Sensei,
Are you going to give us a LIVE trade?
Before this week ends, if possible?


----------



## Magdoran

Sensei said:
			
		

> ... excuse my ignorance or audacity to even ask ... but can someone explain to me the logic behind entering a trade counter to the morning trend with a move of 50 odd points and trying to pick up 1 point and 4 points?  What is the risk/reward etc for such a trade?  I don't expect a reply, but it just seems like a lot of crock is being spewed.  Hope no-one is following or relying on such trades.  This market will chew you up and spit you out.  Prefer to hang onto the coat tails of the big boys, follow their lead and secure a few points in their wake.  Otherwise it's like trying to surf against the direction of the waves.




Hello Sensei,


I agree with your perspective here.  This is counter trend trading – very risky unless you know what you are doing… and the rewards are very limited, and trading them requires high precision timing… and the downside is often substantial.  Oh, and the heart palpitations are an added bonus…

Now, what if yesterday a trade was entered short at close to aim for the “Gann support” mentioned?  Reduce position size, and trade for a longer period… Again all I see currently is scrabbling for the crumbs with a heavy exposure, and missing the main movement – time and time again on this thread.  While I respect there are different styles, if the support projections are this good, why not trade the bulk of the short movement, and stay in a little longer?

I’m a position trader, so I’m just not in the market at all during these consolidations.  I’m waiting for a breakout followed by a higher low, or a breakdown followed by a lower high (with the right patterns and volume confirmation of course), aligned with Gann squares in time and price, and in line with commodity and currency movements.  Then I’ll look to set up a range of strategies to take advantage of the market conditions in different time frames…

The closest pattern I could find that was like this is the May 1999 low to the July 1999 high.  Here the consolidation resolved to the upside from this kind of up angling consolidation which effectively gave a set of small higher lows and provided a base to retest the April 1999 High.  Then the bullish drive failed, and the Index retested the low and exceeded it resulting in the October 1999 low.  Perhaps this is potentially the pattern the index may follow broadly speaking now?

My technical view though is that this pattern could well be the precursor for a major test down since this current consolidation seems to be angling up slightly (gives a bearish probability under a lower double top), and yesterday was 90 calendar days from high, and failed… and 22 calendar days from the 17/07/06 low.  We currently have a lower high in place in this little consolidation.  The invalidation of this view would be if the 31/07/06 high can be exceeded and held, I’d then be looking to the long side, but would look to take profits near the May 06 major high.

Until this is resolved, I’m staying right out since this kind of “arm wrestle” may explode up or down fast.  I’m not sure what copper is doing – certainly not blowing off upwards like before… but there could be supply problems (BHP scenario) - Oil is still looking very bullish, rates are up, and inflation levels have been moving upwards too… US has paused its rate rise – weaker economy???  These factors may have a profound effect over the next 3 months…

There is also a view that the Australian market will chop sideways for a while now too, so we could just see the XAO/XJO range trade for a while. This is also a possibility.

So, when it comes to “live trades” – position traders are probably likely to be on the sidelines like me if they’re directional traders, or be trading sideways options strategies with perhaps butterflies of condors, or maybe bull puts or bear calls currently… or maybe a ratio back spread if convinced of a major move… hard to say, and the time frame is likely to be much longer than a couple of days – depends if you’re swing trading, or longer term…



Regards


Magdoran


----------



## professor_frink

Ageo said:
			
		

> hehe Frink thanks for the advice mate but i havent been over trading. Just i hadnt traded the A200 since 5 days ago and i got a little itchy. But i have made over $1500 during that time on other trades (shares/oil/gold/FX).




That's good mate. It's always something to keep in the back of your mind  



			
				Ageo said:
			
		

> But i do agree with you beating young kids at monopoly is by far the best satisfaction hehe.




ha!!


----------



## Sensei

Bronte said:
			
		

> Sensei,
> Please can you call one of your trades *LIVE*
> Or if you wish call the trade before it happens
> As this trade was called today...Buy Support etc



Bronte don't take it personally .... it is questioning the method and system not the individual.  And also to educate myself and others who may not be inclined to question (espec newbies who do read this thread) on the bonefide of the posts.

From the comments I got the impression it was thought to be a good trade ... I thought it was a *"got out by the skin of my teeth"* trade!  Maybe I mis-read it, but the questions still needs to be asked and more importantly answered.

Maybe what has to be realised by (especially new) SPI traders is not to follow blindly the comments spouted as gospel by proponents of such systems(with all due respects to Messrs Gann, Elliott and other soothsayers).

PS  ... this will stir the hornets nest but a civil discussion is a good discussion.


----------



## Bronte

Agreed Magdoran,
Absolutely no argument from me.
I do love the crumbs though


----------



## Bronte

Yes OK Sensei,Thanks  
Are you going to give us a trade?


----------



## Ageo

Sensei said:
			
		

> ... lol ... Ageo please understand ... my comments weren't directed at your trade.  I can sympathise with your comments though.





had a feeling but needed to confirm thats all hehe.

P.S the A200 is moving up!  

lol ahwell my decision to pull the plug on the trade anyway as it wasnt a trade for profit but more for "boredom than anything".

But each point it rises each time i think i should break the laptop! hehehe only jks


----------



## Bronte

If the *Gann Support * had held strongly.... I would have held on.
As it was we saw lower prices and I had the chance to take profit.
The whole trade was done *LIVE* for all to see & question.
We still have a Double Bottom 4910 / 08 formation (unconfirmed)
SPI now 4925


----------



## Freddo

I'm stopped out of my short @ -5 points

Check this chart out... *IF * I had taken a contrarian approach
to my position I would have picked up nearly the whole" mountain "


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> If the *Gann Support * had held strongly.... I would have held on.
> As it was we saw lower prices and I had the chance to take profit.
> The whole trade was done *LIVE* for all to see & question.
> We still have a Double Bottom 4910 / 08 formation (unconfirmed)
> SPI now 4925



Thank you Freddo


----------



## Bronte

The trade was a good one.
SPI now 4929 +14


----------



## Realist

Oh dear, this thread confirms all my bad opinion of traders.     

People happy with a 4 point gain, oh dear oh dear.  After fees, brokerage, time and tax you'd be better off looking under the couch cushions for coins.

Right, let's cut to the chase.

The ASX is now 4924.9  I'll buy. Gimme gimmme gimmmmme.

I'll let you know when I sell. We'll see who can beat me...


----------



## professor_frink

Realist said:
			
		

> Oh dear, this thread confirms all my bad opinion of traders.
> 
> People happy with a 4 point gain, oh dear oh dear.  After fees, brokerage, time and tax you'd be better off looking under the couch cushions for coins.
> 
> Right, let's cut to the chase.
> 
> The ASX is now 4924.9  I'll buy. Gimme gimmme gimmmmme.
> 
> I'll let you know when I sell. We'll see who can beat me...




look out folks Realist is here  

4 pts per contract =$100.
margin required for 1 contract= approx $2750.
brokerage=$10
$90(3%) profit in 5 minutes.

What's wrong with that?

edit: sorry-$3125 intiial.

2.8% in 5 minutes


----------



## Realist

professor_frink said:
			
		

> look out folks Realist is here




 :bath: 


Okay explain this below with real money please.... (remember I am an investor so very slow..   )


4 pts per contract =$100.

margin required for 1 contract= approx $2750.

brokerage=$10

$90(3%) profit in 5 minutes.


----------



## Ageo

i will stay out of this 1 hehe but just to let frinks and Sensei know that the A200 is up 20+ points from my entry that i closed lol!!!!!

when will i learn my lesson!!

anywayz im happy to get that off my chest.

P.S so far for August im up $1500 net for risking no more than 1% of my capital ($90,000) on any single trade.

Usually the trades are less than 1% although im prepared to risk upto 2% per trade.

So i cant complain

In a few months i will post my excel spreadsheet to show my expectancy rates


----------



## professor_frink

Explain futures in a post. Ok here goes.

the margin is basically a deposit you put down to buy the contract- Once you have bought it, every tick up or down = $25. Pretty simple really. I was slightly off, I checked the intraday margin(deposit needed if you are buying and selling on the same day) and it's $3125. $6250 to hold  o/n.

Bronte buys at 4915 this morning, and sells a few minutes later @ 4919. $100 for 4 points. $10 to get in and out for brokerage, and there is your $90 profit. This works out to be a 3% return on money invested(although it's not wise to trade 1 contract with only $3000 in an a/c). More like 1 contract per $10 000. Reduces the return significantly, but this wasn't exactly a great example of a trade.


----------



## Realist

Realist said:
			
		

> The ASX is now 4924.9 I'll buy.




It is now 4932.2 I'm up 7.3, should I sell, should I take part profits, should I use a trailing stop loss?

No, no, no.

I'll hold....    :


----------



## Bronte

About time we had some funny business  
Four points x Ten contract   
It's worth having for only a few minutes work.
SPI is now 4935/6 (+$500)
That is twenty points above the Support  
Eight points would have been risked to make Twenty.


----------



## Realist

professor_frink said:
			
		

> Explain futures in a post. Ok here goes.
> 
> the margin is basically a deposit you put down to buy the contract- Once you have bought it, every tick up or down = $25. Pretty simple really. I was slightly off, I checked the intraday margin(deposit needed if you are buying and selling on the same day) and it's $3125. $6250 to hold  o/n.
> 
> Bronte buys at 4915 this morning, and sells a few minutes later @ 4919. $100 for 4 points. $10 to get in and out for brokerage, and there is your $90 profit. This works out to be a 3% return on money invested(although it's not wise to trade 1 contract with only $3000 in an a/c). More like 1 contract per $10 000. Reduces the return significantly, but this wasn't exactly a great example of a trade.




Cewl, sounds easy.. Who are you buying them from?   $5 brokerage per trade??? 

How long can you hold them for? any other charges?


----------



## Bronte

Sorry prof, I will leave this to you.......


----------



## professor_frink

Realist said:
			
		

> Cewl, sounds easy.. Who are you buying them from?   $5 brokerage per trade???
> 
> How long can you hold them for? any other charges?




Easy? no comment  

 $5 is from interactive brokers.

Today's range so far has been 62 points. That's $1550 per contract. A bit unreasonable to expect the whole days range, but a big chunk of it was available this morning. Take half the days range, take out a further 50% for tax and it's still a pretty good mornings work.

try the sfe  website for some more information. I don't have time to explain it all in detail, but general information isn't hard to find.


Happy investing mate


----------



## Realist

Thanks, it looks like fun.  

I'll sell the ASX for whatever it is at 3:59pm....


----------



## Ageo

Ageo said:
			
		

> i will stay out of this 1 hehe but just to let frinks and Sensei know that the A200 is up 20+ points from my entry that i closed lol!!!!!





30 points up   

lol im gonna stop looking at the screen.

enjoy!


----------



## Realist

Realist said:
			
		

> The ASX is now 4924.9 I'll buy.




The ASX is now 4941.9 I'll sell.

Realist makes 17 points!!

Anyone beat that today?


----------



## professor_frink

bad luck ageo. there's always tomorrow  

Realist, here's a link to some information from the futures exchange website-
http://www.sfe.com.au/education_sfe/index.html 

If you want to know who did well today just have a quick look at the freefall on the futures chart this morning. Anyone that caught a part of that did quite well


----------



## Realist

Cewl, I'll try it out thanks Prof.

I'm betting tomorrow the ASX will rise by maybe 60 points, dipping back a little from about 1:30pm when the big traders get back from lunch... What's your thoughts?


----------



## Bronte

Realist said:
			
		

> The ASX is now 4941.9 I'll sell.
> Realist makes 17 points!!
> Anyone beat that today?



You are a natural Realist...Well done.
Of course people will not believe you.
It was a "Hindsight trade"... they will shout


----------



## professor_frink

Realist said:
			
		

> Cewl, I'll try it out thanks Prof.
> 
> I'm betting tomorrow the ASX will rise by maybe 60 points, dipping back a little from about 1:30pm when the big traders get back from lunch... What's your thoughts?




My thoughts for tomorrow? I'll watch the price action develop from the open-if there is a move near one of my levels that gives me a reasonable risk/reward proposition, then I'll have a stab. Long, short, it doesn't really matter much.


----------



## Bronte

The SPI will Open at 07.50AM Perth Time
Make a High and then a Low
(maybe not in that order) &
Close at 02.30PM


----------



## Realist

Bronte said:
			
		

> You are a natural Realist...Well done.
> Of course people will not believe you.
> It was a "Hindsight trade"... they will shout





The posts have time stamps on them. I did not cheat!!  

I traded on the understanding the ASX took a beating this morning, and was always gonna recover a little this afternoon.

Tomorrow, assuming the DOW is up a little overnight I'd be punting on the ASX doing the opposite, take a nice leap upwards in the morning on the back of BHP and RIO, and dip a little in the afternoon..

We'll see...


----------



## Bronte

They still will NOT believe you.....Sorry


----------



## Realist

professor_frink said:
			
		

> Long, short, it doesn't really matter much.





To me going long is always safer.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> They still will NOT believe you.....Sorry



One year plus.....fifty / sixty trades plus.....no Sorry


----------



## professor_frink

Realist said:
			
		

> To me going long is always safer.




When you are talking about a trade that lasts for a maximum of a couple of hours, then it really doesn't matter. 

Have another look at the chart from the link I gave you- prices fell alot quicker than they rose. Makes for quicker profits when you are right


----------



## Realist

Bronte said:
			
		

> They still will NOT believe you.....Sorry





The f'ing post was time stamped at 3pm, and I called my sell about half an hour before I actually sold it, and again it was time stamped. 

How could anyone doubt it?


----------



## Bronte

Exactly my thoughts Realist


----------



## Bronte

"Smoke and Mirrors" They will say


----------



## professor_frink

Bronte said:
			
		

> One year plus.....numerous trades.....no Sorry




Alright, I'll bite bronte  

When you have a timestamped post, or you state before the fact you are looking for action of a certain level, then I don't have a problem with you at all.

If you are posting a trade in hindsight to help educate people(which means a thoroughly explained reason for why you did what you did), then that's fine too.

Coming on and saying you bought gann support(and not making an attempt to explain how this level was calculated)after the market has rallied 50 points from your level isn't going to make you any friends.


----------



## Bronte

SPI Now 4950   
That is 35 points above our Gann Support


----------



## Bronte

Battman64 said:
			
		

> "Buy Low and Sell High"
> This simply means that you identify an area of *Support*
> ie Gann, Fibonacci, previous proven areas - double bottoms 50% etc
> Buy low when the market is moving away from this area.
> Place a stoploss a few points away (under the area of Support)
> If you are wrong happily take a small loss or reverse.
> When right use a trailing stoploss to take a large profit
> when the market turns.



Post #2 from Page one


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> SPI Now 4950
> That is 35 points above our Gann Support



*Gann Support * identified and posted well before the SPI traded there


----------



## professor_frink

Bronte said:
			
		

> SPI Now 4950
> That is 35 points above our Gann Support




you notice how nobody called foul on today's action? Funnily enough the level was called beforehand.

If you had of shown up now for the first time and said you were up 35, you would have got a completely different reaction.

Pretty simple really.


----------



## Bronte

How about a little game.  
"Trading the SPI" thread....
You find hindsight trades and I will find foresight ones.


----------



## professor_frink

> bronte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4992 is our Gann Support
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bronte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have seen 4996 Low
> SPI now 5008 Doh!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bronte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Probably right Sensei
> We took profit @ 5030
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> professor_frink said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> huh? profit? did I miss something? where was the entry?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



it's this kind of crap that's the problem


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> You are a natural Realist...Well done.
> Of course people will not believe you.
> It was a "Hindsight trade"... they will shout




Apples and Oranges Bronte

Realist said I am buying at x price and selling at x time. Completely unambiguous!!

Your posts are usually ambiguous. This could be prevented by say I have bought @ x immediately after doing so, or by saying "limit buy at x" etc.

In this way no-one can doubt the veracity of your claims... and you won't have to feign indignation. 

When there is ambiguity, there will be doubt. Why be ambiguous when you can be explicit? People will reach conclusions based on this.

Cheers


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> If I have to I will go through ALL 14 trades:
> 17-10-05
> 07.26AM
> Very Strong Area of Support @ 4422
> (This says BUY 4422/3 Stoploss below Support)
> *Please ask yourself...WAS THIS TRADE CALLED BEFOREHAND?*
> Same Day
> 02.03PM
> In @ 4422
> 02.11PM
> Now 4442
> Chart attached
> Please note the times.



Here's one October 2005


----------



## Bronte

Todays Hindsight Trade  
SPI 5 mins chart:


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> *Todays Live Trade Summary:*
> 
> 09.21AM EST Received Daygraph showing Strong Support Area @4316
> 
> 09.40AM EST Enter Buy 4316 on Limit orders
> 
> 09.50AM EST SPI Day market Opens @ 4323
> 
> 09.59AM EST Bought 4316 (Not all contracts filled)
> 
> 10.03AM EST First Post ASF Bought 4316
> 
> 10.04AM EST Second Post ASF Now 4328 Stoploss 4308
> 
> 10.07AM EST Third Post ASF Targets T1 T2 T3
> 
> 10.13AM EST Trade Over Post ASF
> 
> 10.18AM EST I Will Be Buying 4316 Again Post ASF
> 
> 10.25AM EST Bought 4316
> 
> 10.33AM EST Trade over Post
> 
> Please see times on chart.....



Here is another one 19th October 2005


----------



## professor_frink

Fine bronte. All of your trades were great! 
I tried being civil. 
Will excuse myself from now on.


----------



## wayneL

Bronte,

Just do it all the time and no one will doubt you. Easy.

This has been an issue ever since you have been posting here. 

If you don't wan't to be doubted, post stuff like:

Support at 5000 - limit buy at that level
Target 7000
Stop at 1750

or something along those lines... clear, explicit, in advance or called immediatly afterwards.

Then you simply will not "have" to defend yourself ...Easy

Cheers


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Ok REAL TIME
> I HAVE BOUGHT 4316 THIS MORNING



Private Messages by a few members after this LIVE trade 
Including you Wayne.....Why only a PM ?


----------



## wayneL

You had to go back to OCTOBER 2005 for a live trade? ROFL


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Private Messages by a few members after this LIVE trade
> Including you Wayne.....Why only a PM ?



It was a good place to START


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Private Messages by a few members after this LIVE trade
> Including you Wayne.....Why only a PM ?




Forward me these PM's so I can verify them.

The reason being you claim to get a lot of PM's and the capacity constarinsts of the ASF PM system would have forced you to delete October PMs long ago.


----------



## Bronte

I am not looking for a battle Wayne.....no need for insults.
Was todays trade hindsight or foresight ???


----------



## Bronte

wayneL said:
			
		

> Forward me these PM's so I can verify them.
> 
> The reason being you claim to get a lot of PM's and the capacity constarinsts of the ASF PM system would have forced you to delete October PMs long ago.



_"*I've been offline for a few days so have missed all the action, but...
Well done. With those live posts there can be no ambiguity.
Time for us all to settle down now and for us all to stick to trading posts.
Cheers*"_

Wasn't sure how to forward....so here is one of them...remember this one Wayne?


----------



## Bronte

I have managed to forward you the above message Wayne 
Dated 22nd October 2005 08.31PM


----------



## wayneL

Bronte

It is good when you or anybody calls live trades

Everybody appreciates them including me and I have and will continue encourage people to do so. But most of your calls are with sufficient time lapse to be hindsite.

Support does not mean buy. Support means a support level.

Buy or limit order @ means you have taken the trade.

Big difference

Cheers


----------



## Bronte

Why only a PM when you are trying to encourage me 
and offensive posts like that one above when discourage me......

*Please can you remove it.*

Was todays trade hindsight or foresight?.


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Why only a PM when you are trying to encourage me
> and offensive posts like that one above when discourage me......
> *please can you remove it.*
> Was todays trade hindsight or foresight?.




The one I can see was posted once 3 pts in profit. 

With your style of trading you should be able to say "limit buy at x"

Look, even when it becomes apparent that you get stopped out sometimes, you will get far more respect.


----------



## Bronte

Can you show us one of your foresight SPI trades please Wayne.
(thank you for deleting the offensive post)


----------



## wayneL

Lol

I don't trade the SPI.

I trade ES and ER2 which doesn't interest many here.

However, when I do post stuff, I freely give away WHY such and such a level is support, I give away formulas, websites, anything I can to help. You may have noticed how much option info I give away. All stuff people never learn in $5,000 seminars.

It is all my pleasure too. I enjoy helping where I can.

I have yet to see any such give away of info from you. Just levels which the logic and construction of which is a secret. 

This raises questions as well.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Trade what you see.
> The chart shows that we were well _oversold_
> ASX was @ 4955
> SPI was @ 4915 *Down 40 points*
> We had Natural Support (Previous Bottoms 4913 / 10)
> We had *Gann Support * (you know these work  )
> Small Risk with possible Large Reward.



Did you not trade the SPI with us for a few months?


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Did you not trade the SPI with us for a few months?




Yes, and I did make some calls.. some live, some hindsite. I also had a blog where I called trades live on ES & ER2, but that only had 2 readers, me and my wife when I forced her to look.   

FWIW, I am not all that bothered about people calling live trades. If they do call them though, they should indeed be live.

I am more interested in the process than the execution, and I think that is better in an education sense. Different people have different execution priorities and may enter the same signal with different goals in mind, therefore a different entry point.

Cheers


----------



## Bronte

wayneL said:
			
		

> I don't trade the SPI.



The thread is called "Trading the SPI"
You have posted here 180 times Wayne and now
we find out that you do NOT trade the SPI


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> The thread is called "Trading the SPI"
> You have posted here 180 times Wayne and now
> we find out that you do NOT trade the SPI




Like I said before, it's like a bad traffic accident, horrible to see, but you just can't help looking  

Joke  

I do trade futures though, so the thread is of interest. I do have a resposibility to view as many threads as possible too.


----------



## Bronte

wayneL said:
			
		

> Yes, and I did make some calls.. *some live*, some hindsite. Cheers



Sorry Wayne our posts crossed.

Can you show us one of these *live* SPI trades please.


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Sorry Wayne our posts crossed.
> 
> Can you show us one of these *live* SPI trades please.




Bronte

I don't really care if I did or didn't. Just to make it easy and so I don't have to trawl through a kajillion posts, I never posted a live trade, OK. I'm more about the process as stated.

But my posts are not at issue, yours are. 

This is easily repaired by simple being unambiguous if you want to post live trades. It's that easy.

I would actually prefer that you told us more about your process; why xyz is Gann support etc. That would be interesting.

It would probably get you more students as well  

Over at rc the gannists are actually starting to discuss their methods more openly and are to be commended for doing so.

Cheers


----------



## Ageo

now now boys, lets keep it clean with trades regarding the SPI (and of course the CFD boys for A200).

i sometimes dont like calling live trades as i think it will jinx me, but then again its always good to be brave and bold. So thats why i dont mind them


----------



## Poor_Grenville

*My Journal Is Up*

Hi!

I've just started a journal on my trading the SPI 200. Feel free to check it out from time to time!


----------



## wayneL

Ageo said:
			
		

> now now boys, lets keep it clean with trades regarding the SPI (and of course the CFD boys for A200).
> 
> i sometimes dont like calling live trades as i think it will jinx me, but then again its always good to be brave and bold. So thats why i dont mind them




Ageo

Calling live trades is good for some people. It can make you trade better, because it makes you have a logic for taking the trade. Not wanting to discourage live calls, I was just stating my personal preference.

Post on  

Cheers


----------



## Realist

Ageo said:
			
		

> now now boys, lets keep it clean with trades regarding the SPI (and of course the CFD boys for A200).
> 
> i sometimes dont like calling live trades as i think it will jinx me, but then again its always good to be brave and bold. So thats why i dont mind them




Well I think you are better to post it live, and if it goes wrong make a fool of yourself and for others to helpfully crticise you and explain your mistakes and learn from it then to keep doing it in private losing money.

A bit of embarassment is worth saving some money in future.


----------



## Bronte

It has never been our intention to call live trades.
Although these days we have shown many  
Just to show that we trade the SPI using *Gann Support / Resistances*
Nobody has ever said to us that they do not work  
Just that what _they_ saw was in hindsight.
Futures trading is as simple as that.
Sell off Resistance
Buy off Support.


----------



## Bronte

rc is so quiet it upsets us.
gazelle is doing a fine job


----------



## Bronte

Battman64 said:
			
		

> "Buy Low and Sell High"
> 
> This simply means that you identify an area of Support
> ie Gann, Fibonacci, previous proven areas - double bottoms 50% etc
> Buy low when the market is moving away from this area.
> Place a stoploss a few points away (under the area of Support)
> If you are wrong happily take a small loss or reverse.
> When right use a trailing stoploss to take a large profit
> when the market turns.
> Or trade to:
> 
> "Sell High and Buy Low"
> 
> This simply means that you identify an area of Resistance
> ie Gann, Fibonacci, previous proven areas - double tops 100% etc
> Sell high when the market is moving away from this area.
> Place a stoploss a few points away (above the Resistance)
> If you are wrong happily take a small loss or reverse.
> When right use a trailing stoploss to take a large profit
> when the market turns.
> 
> This is trading what You see with great Risk Management.
> __________________
> 
> For Educational Purposes only.



Post #2 Page1


----------



## Bronte

Todays *Gann Support * was posted well before the market traded there:
Ask yourself...."Could I make money trading off these Gann areas?"
It doesn't have to be Gann....whatever works for you


----------



## wayneL

Fine,

But IF you post trades, they should be live, otherwise not at all.

Posting support and resistance is also good, but fairly useless if there is no reason for it. "Gann" is not a reason. Gann was a person.

Support at x because of square of 23.765, fib level, static horizontal, floor pivots or whatever, is a reason.

Wouldn't it be ridiculous to say wayneL support at 4900? Of course it would, because it doesn't tell anybody anything.

Try posting WHY dead person support at 4900 is so. 

Cheers


----------



## nizar

If any of u had some balls and shorted  SPI last night after that big day and made a motza... nice one, u did well !!!!  .....


----------



## Bronte

If you have XXXXX Support let's here it.
Or anything else that works.  
We might want to study your method.
Gann was a person...it is also a method


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> gazelle is doing a fine job




So why was 4915 dead person support?


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> If you have XXXXX Support let's here it.
> Or anything else that works.
> We might want to study your method.




Most of us have spilt or guts already, we might want to study yours.

You don't have to give away everything, just some reasons for 4915 support.


----------



## Bronte

Battman gave us the Support at 07.30am this morning
That is all I need to know.....It will work


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Gann was a person...it is also a method




Gann had various methods I believe. Which one said support at 4915?


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Battman gave us the Support at 07.30am this morning
> That is all I need to know.....It will work




You are allegedly married to Mr Battman yet don't know why 4915 is suppoprt???

Hmmmmmmmm


----------



## Bobby

wayneL said:
			
		

> You are allegedly married to Mr Battman yet don't know why 4915 is suppoprt???
> 
> Hmmmmmmmm


----------



## Bronte

I have a little bit of knowledge  
This can be a good or bad thing.
I just trade these areas....
Badly as you saw today  
+4 +1 out of a possible +25


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> I have a little bit of knowledge
> This can be a good or bad thing.
> I just trade these areas....
> Badly as you saw today
> +4 +1 out of a possible +25




Don't worry about that, we all *&^% up trading these some days.

But why was 4915 support?


----------



## Bronte

*&^% knows


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> *&^% knows




ROTFLMFAO


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Battman gave us the Support at 07.30am this morning
> That is all I need to know.....It will work



That is all I need to know.


----------



## Bronte

wayneL said:
			
		

> ROTFLMFAO



Sorry Wayne, I am not very good with these.
I bet it is not complimentary though  
Understandably so.


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Sorry Wayne, I am not very good with these.
> I bet it is not complimentary though
> Understandably so.




*R*olling *O*n *T*he *F*loor *L*aughing *M*y *F*###### *A*### *O*ff!


----------



## Bronte

Buy a few Gann books.
Send off to America for the course.
Spend many hours studying, back testing.
Make a start today....It doesn't happen overnight


----------



## Ageo

Bronte said:
			
		

> Sorry Wayne, I am not very good with these.
> I bet it is not complimentary though
> Understandably so.




ROTFLMFAO = 
Rolling On The Floor Laughing My Fkn Ass off


----------



## Ageo

wayneL said:
			
		

> *R*olling *O*n *T*he *F*loor *L*aughing *M*y *F*###### *A*### *O*ff!




bastard beat me to it!


----------



## wayneL

FWIW

Here are some Gann style articles, though very different to the Bronte/Battman method.

http://www.fibonaccitrader.com/journals/FTJ1.pdf
http://www.fibonaccitrader.com/journals/FTJ2.pdf

Cheers


----------



## Bronte

Thanks lads...predictable


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Buy a few Gann books.
> Send off to America for the course.
> Spend many hours studying, back testing.
> Make a start today....It doesn't happen overnight




But you can't have done that if you don't know why 4915 is support. (?!)


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> It has never been our intention to call live trades.
> Although these days we have shown many
> Just to show that we trade the SPI using *Gann Support / Resistances*
> *Nobody has ever said to us that they do not work *
> Just that what _they_ saw was in hindsight.
> Futures trading is as simple as that.
> Sell off Resistance
> Buy off Support.



You have to admit they work well.


----------



## wayneL

Oh here is another:

http://www.fibonaccitrader.com/journals/FTJ3.pdf

these deal primarily with Ganns swing trading style


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> You have to admit they work well.




Everything works well in hindsite


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Battman gave us the Support at 07.30am this morning
> That is all I need to know.....It will work



That is all I need to know Wayne


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> You are a natural Realist...Well done.
> Of course people will not believe you.
> It was a "Hindsight trade"... they will shout



History repeats....I am loving this Wayne


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> That is all I need to know Wayne




How do you know it is Gann support then?

It could be a number plucked out of thin air.


----------



## Bronte

Could be.....
I would trade it.


----------



## Bronte

So do many others.
If 90 work out of 100
Would you trade them?


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> History repeats....I am loving this Wayne




Indeed it does.

I'm glad you are enjoying this because I am having a ball.

Ask Battman why 4915 was support. I'm sure he is round about


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> So do many others.
> If 90 work out of 100
> Would you trade them?




Ahahahahaha

There is that unsubstantaited claim again.

Listen, 150% of my trades are profitable...thats if I claim the ones I never took.


Ahahahahaha


----------



## Bronte

The problem isn't the Gann Support / Resistance
It is trading them... as you saw today.
I only took +4 +1
Others took +20
Others none


----------



## Bronte

wayneL said:
			
		

> Ahahahahaha
> There is that unsubstantaited claim again.
> Listen, 150% of my trades are profitable...thats if I claim the ones I never took.
> Ahahahahaha



I believe you Wayne....no problem


----------



## Bronte

If you do not believe...just move on
We will not be offended.


----------



## Freddo

3rd time lucky????
Heck I don't need no luck...

Order is in Sell @ 4892

Email me $0.99 if you want my trading methodolgy 
I only post here because I'm lonely


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Buy a few Gann books.
> Send off to America for the course.
> Spend many hours studying, back testing.
> Make a start today....It doesn't happen overnight



If you want to learn.......


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> If you do not believe...just move on
> We will not be offended.




It's not a case of what I believe, it's a case of what you say, and whether it is believable, sans substantiation.

I make a 1,000,000,000 a week day trading ER2. Do you believe me?


----------



## Bronte

Think about what you are doing here Wayne....
As Joe says analyse / attack the method not the person.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> It has never been our intention to call live trades.
> Although these days we have shown many
> Just to show that we trade the SPI using *Gann Support / Resistances*
> *Nobody has ever said to us that they do not work *
> Just that what _they_ saw was in hindsight.
> Futures trading is as simple as that.
> Sell off Resistance
> Buy off Support.



Analyse the method


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Think about what you are doing here Wayne....
> As Joe says analyse / attack the method not the person.




Bronte

I am not attacking you, I am discussing and asking questions. I am asking you to substantiate your claims.

If that is uncomfortable for you, it does not mean it is an attack. It means you don't want to answer the questions.

Has Battman told you why 4915 is support?


----------



## Bronte

No, you have over one year of data.
2627 post in this thread alone.
Do the analysis yourself
If you do not want do....
No problem.....


----------



## Bronte

Nobody is saying that the Gann Support / Resistance areas do not work.
They are saying........
"You didn't take that trade"
"It was a hindsight trade"
"You do not make money"
"You do not own ooodles of property"
"You are not successful"


----------



## Poor_Grenville

For what this is worth, I think that it's better to have a few numbers to to work with when day trading than to have none at all. Most people trade without any faintest idea or clue like where the potential resitances and supports are... so any number is better than none at all. 

However, to know whether the numbers worked or not, you can only tell after it has happened and by then it's too late if you didn't take the trade...   

And, it's okay to post hindsight trades... I have no problems with it. You either really traded it or you didn't. What the person did or did'nt do should not bother people because you are not that person. What they did should not affect your trading... heh heh


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> No, you have over one year of data.
> 2627 post in this thread alone.
> Do the analysis yourself
> If you do not want do....
> No problem.....




But never a REASON, an underlying LOGIC for the supp/res.

You ask others to do do what you have not done yourself (allegedly). You cannot even say why 4915 was support (allegedly)

This is a monumental hypocrisy!


----------



## Bronte

Attacking the person not the system.....as Joe points out


----------



## Bronte

You are attacking ME again NOT the method Wayne


----------



## Bronte

The method works........
You are attacking me again.......
I will not spoon feed you Wayne.
Sorry


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Nobody is saying that the Gann Support / Resistance areas do not work.
> They are saying........
> "You didn't take that trade"
> "It was a hindsight trade"
> "You do not make money"
> "You do not own ooodles of property"
> "You are not successful"




Who is "they"

You are sidestepping the questions.

Why was 4915 support?


----------



## Realist

Gann Schmann, it is complete bollocks, if a dead man can out trade me (a devout non-trader who doesn't like charts) I'll be surprised.


----------



## Bronte

Once again read through this thread
"They" will become obvious Wayne


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> The method works........
> You are attacking me again.......
> I will not spoon feed you Wayne.
> Sorry




I am not attacking you.

I am asking questions.

"I will not spoon feed you Wayne." ROTFLMFAO I am a successful trader with my own method, which I have shared freely. You are simply avoiding the issue again.

Why was 4915 support?


----------



## Freddo

Poor_Grenville said:
			
		

> For what this is worth, I think that it's better to have a few numbers to to work with when day trading than to have none at all. Most people trade without any faintest idea or clue like where the potential resitances and supports are... so any number is better than none at all.
> 
> However, to know whether the numbers worked or not, you can only tell after it has happened and by then it's too late if you didn't take the trade...
> 
> *And, it's okay to post hindsight trades... I have no problems with it. You either really traded it or you didn't. What the person did or did'nt do should not bother people because you are not that person. What they did should not affect your trading... heh heh  *




Absolutely !!!!!!

I totally agree, I don't care what people claim here !
People's fictious trades don't effect my trading account !!

Call it live , post it afterwards... doesn't bother me either

I can also appreciate that people are very protective about their trading methods.


----------



## Bronte

Thank you Freddo / Poor_G


----------



## wayneL

Freddo said:
			
		

> Absolutely !!!!!!
> 
> I totally agree, I don't care what people claim here !
> People's fictious trades don't effect my trading account !!
> 
> Call it live , post it afterwards... doesn't bother me either
> 
> I can also appreciate that people are very protective about their trading methods.




Then Bronte should just say I don't want to say why 4915 is support instead of BSing around.

I'll start calling some hindsight trades.


----------



## Bronte

wayneL said:
			
		

> Why was 4915 support?



Listen carefully.........
Mars's equinox lines up with Jupiter's
And it's the angle of the dangle


----------



## nat

evening all ,hey ive got a question for poor granville ,with that ib paper account am i reading it right that to have a paper account one has to open and fund a real account first.Nathan


----------



## Realist

wayneL said:
			
		

> I'll start calling some hindsight trades.




Yes hindsight trades are usefull.     

So will I do one,  I'll buy the Dow index in 1933 for about 40 and sell today for about 11,000.

Now in hindsight I can retire and drive a Ferrari.   

Unfortunately, in the real world - I've got work tomorrow.   


Hindsight is possibly the most useless thing you can ever have.


----------



## Bronte

The Gann Support / Resistances work.
I apologise for B/S'ing around


----------



## Realist

Bronte said:
			
		

> Listen carefully.........
> Mars's equinox lines up with Jupiter's
> And it's the angle of the dangle





Pretty much what I suspected.


----------



## Freddo

Bronte said:
			
		

> Thank you Freddo / Poor_G




I am *very very curious * about how you calculate your levels
however like you said the thread was started by Batmann
and I can't see anything when the thread was started that says trades will be posted live or trading plans revealed.

I keep telling myself one day I'll dust off my Gann stuff and reverse engineer
your posts


----------



## wayneL

wayneL said:
			
		

> Then Bronte should just say I don't want to say why 4915 is support instead of BSing around.
> 
> I'll start calling some hindsight trades.




I short sold gold at wayneL resistance @ 655 reversed at wayneL support @ 640.

Give me a couple of days and I'll tell you where I sold


----------



## onemore

Bronte said:
			
		

> It was a "Hindsight trade





Ya gotta love that


----------



## wayneL

Realist said:
			
		

> Yes hindsight trades are usefull.
> 
> So will I do one,  I'll buy the Dow index in 1933 for about 40 and sell today for about 11,000.
> 
> Now in hindsight I can retire and drive a Ferrari.
> 
> Unfortunately, in the real world - I've got work tomorrow.
> 
> 
> Hindsight is possibly the most useless thing you can ever have.




Ding!

Exactly


----------



## Bronte

We do not have work tomorrow...or the next day
Thanks to the Gann Support / Resistances.
Please do not start attacking me again.
Attack the method...or learn it


----------



## wayneL

Well it's been fun

But I have to go and find a trade from yestreday that I can close now... oh and dinners ready.

Ciao for now

ROFL


----------



## Freddo

wayneL said:
			
		

> Then Bronte should just say I don't want to say why 4915 is support instead of BSing around.
> 
> I'll start calling some hindsight trades.




Fair enough .....

I've enjoyed many of your previous posts, I think they weren't
hindsite trades more of a postmortem, eg the post when you reignited my interest in pivot points.

I reckon we (at least me) would great value out of hindsight trades from you Wayne


----------



## Bronte

Thanks Wayne.
As you say its been fun...enjoy 
Please more hindsight trades.


----------



## Poor_Grenville

nat said:
			
		

> evening all ,hey ive got a question for poor granville ,with that ib paper account am i reading it right that to have a paper account one has to open and fund a real account first.Nathan




That is correct. You need to have an existing IB account... not sure you have to have it funded or not... and it takes around 3 days to set up the Paper Trading account. 

But it sure is nice to test out your strategies without actually risking real money as realistically as possible.


----------



## Realist

Freddo said:
			
		

> I reckon we (at least me) would great value out of hindsight trades from you Wayne





There is never any value in studying hindsight trades..

History does not repeat itself exactly, nor is it any indication of what the future may hold.  You can not repeat trades and expect the same results.


----------



## Bronte

*Nobody is saying that the Gann Support / Resistance areas do not work.*
My methods in trading them has and is in question.....rightly so.
I am working on that every day...that is what I do & shopping


----------



## Poor_Grenville

wayneL said:
			
		

> Then Bronte should just say I don't want to say why 4915 is support instead of BSing around.
> 
> I'll start calling some hindsight trades.




WTHPWNBBQ!  (Don't ask me what that stand for)  

Look, haven't you figured out that chics never says things
straight... and that they like to be as vague as possible...
and BS around a lot... so... heh eh


----------



## nat

ok then thanx for that poor granvile,i will look into it tomorrow ,as said would be handy to try out some things ,like if i actually stuck 100% to my plan would it work ok ,and be interesting only having a 1 point spread to contend with as i do aussie 200 on cfds and is 2 point spread.I looked at your journel ,looked interesting but didnt quite understand what was going on .Nathan


----------



## Bronte

GJUEDYOPVG  
You have it Poor_G


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> *Nobody is saying that the Gann Support / Resistance areas do not work.*
> My methods in trading them has and is in question.....rightly so.
> I am working on that every day...that is what I do & shopping



Thanks lads, I have learnt a lot from this evenings discussion


----------



## Magdoran

Hello Wayne,


The impression I have is that Battman is the Gann technician behind this group, and he is primarily using the square of 9, but they also hint that there is a time element involved – I’m still trying to figure this out… I have my suspicions.

Bronte it seems isn’t a Gann technician, but trades based on the formula – it’s essentially a “cake mix” approach, buy off the support, and exit when it looks like it’s going to turn back down… even if it’s against the days trend.

So in effect Bronte can’t tell you what you want to know…


Regards


Magdoran


----------



## Poor_Grenville

nat said:
			
		

> ok then thanx for that poor granvile,i will look into it tomorrow ,as said would be handy to try out some things ,like if i actually stuck 100% to my plan would it work ok ,and be interesting only having a 1 point spread to contend with as i do aussie 200 on cfds and is 2 point spread.I looked at your journel ,looked interesting but didnt quite understand what was going on .Nathan




You are welcome nat. My journal is meant for myself mainly.. and yes, I like to keep my journal as vague as possible because I belive you have to put in the work if you want to figure anything out lol. Sorry if it's not verbose enough  :


----------



## Freddo

Realist said:
			
		

> There is never any value in studying hindsight trades..
> 
> History does not repeat itself exactly, nor is it any indication of what the future may hold.  You can not repeat trades and expect the same results.




History may not repeat itself exactly, but are you saying you do not believe
there are cycles in the market?

Are you saying that there is absolutely no value in trading in hindsight to search out for setups and patterns that may repeat?

Am I missing something? isn't something as simple a double top or bottom
a formation that repeats over and over again?

Maybe I am misunderstanding your definition of hindsight trades or
how you use them but they work for me. they have helped me build a trading plan, fine tune my real time trades both entries and exits and saved me from implementing very very bad trade entries


----------



## wayneL

Back from dinner...

Hindsite IS useful for commentary, analysis, learning etc.

Saying I took xyz trade from xyz level, after the fact, doesn't serve a purpose  and is open to BSing and could be nothing more than fraudulent reputation boosting.

Late posting of trades on IRC will get you booted off the channel.

Hindsite analysis is OK, hindsite trading is not. I think this is how it should be too.

cheers


----------



## Freddo

wayneL said:
			
		

> Back from dinner...
> 
> *Hindsite IS useful for commentary, analysis, learning etc*.
> 
> Saying I took xyz trade from xyz level, after the fact, doesn't serve a purpose  and is open to BSing and could be nothing more than fraudulent reputation boosting.
> 
> Late posting of trades on IRC will get you booted off the channel.
> 
> Hindsite analysis is OK, hindsite trading is not. I think this is how it should be too.
> 
> cheers




Whew I was getting a bit worried.
I understand what you are saying...

Just 2 questions  
1st whats IRC
2nd hows that gold trade going


----------



## wayneL

Freddo said:
			
		

> Whew I was getting a bit worried.
> I understand what you are saying...
> 
> Just 2 questions
> 1st whats IRC
> 2nd hows that gold trade going




*I*nternet *R*elay *C*hat

Similar to Joes Chat Channel but US based and mostly full time futures traders.

The gold trade is OK, only put 10,000 contracts on though, so won't be running past Buffet tonight  

Cheers


----------



## Realist

Freddo said:
			
		

> History may not repeat itself exactly, but are you saying you do not believe there are cycles in the market?
> 
> Are you saying that there is absolutely no value in trading in hindsight to search out for setups and patterns that may repeat?
> 
> Am I missing something? isn't something as simple a double top or bottom
> a formation that repeats over and over again?
> 
> Maybe I am misunderstanding your definition of hindsight trades or
> how you use them but they work for me. they have helped me build a trading plan, fine tune my real time trades both entries and exits and saved me from implementing very very bad trade entries




Charting and the study of past stock prices can not be ignored because a large proportion of the market does it. Hence stock prices are affected by chartists. A self fulfilling prophecy.

The fact is though if there was a foolproof accurate scientific method for charting and making money then everyone would use it and everyone would make money. Of course that is impossible. So charting is not a science.

It is possible that some charting methodologies work, the problem is the more people that use that methodology the less it works because you are competing with more people to buy and sell at exactly the same time.

If you want to chart successfully you are best to invent your own method. Because the less people that use your method the better.

You see chartists affect stock prices, Companies usually do not change day to day, perceptions do. So when backtesting or trading in hindsight you are really just seeing what other chartists did, patterns occur because chartists make them occur!!

I'd suggest most trading methodologies work better in backtesting than when used on future trades because of this phenomenon.


----------



## wayneL

Realist said:
			
		

> patterns occur because chartists make them occur!!




Not quite

The patterns existed before t/a did.


----------



## Bronte

wayneL said:
			
		

> The patterns existed before t/a did.



How do you know this to be true Wayne?


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> How do you know this to be true Wayne?




Because a pattern has to be observable before it is tradeable, viz, the pattern must exist first.


----------



## Bronte

Much too tired now. :goodnight goodnight Wayne


----------



## Realist

wayneL said:
			
		

> Not quite
> 
> The patterns existed before t/a did.




Correct!!

Chickens create eggs, and eggs create chickens...Whatever came first is irrelevant.


----------



## wayneL

resistance at 1285
support at 1269.5

Which of course means I SSold @ 1285 and covered at 1269.5

And because this is a hindsite trade I had the foresight to put 100's of cars on  

Just taking the P!ss  

Anyway a reasonably good day to show floor traders pivots. <==== One examp[le of where Realist may be right. Floor traders will trade to and from these levels, thereby creating at least some of the pattern. (however Dow theory, the original t/a was developed by observing existing patterns)

So is Dow theory the Chicken or the egg?   Pass!

Say! I've got square of nine in my software, but got no idea what values to put in. Anyone care to enlighten me... genuinely interested. It's asking for "anchor value" and "degree".

Cheers


----------



## Freddo

Realist said:
			
		

> Charting and the study of past stock prices can not be ignored because a large proportion of the market does it. Hence stock prices are affected by chartists. A self fulfilling prophecy.
> 
> The fact is though if there was a foolproof accurate scientific method for charting and making money then everyone would use it and everyone would make money. Of course that is impossible. So charting is not a science.
> 
> It is possible that some charting methodologies work, the problem is the more people that use that methodology the less it works because you are competing with more people to buy and sell at exactly the same time.
> 
> *If you want to chart successfully you are best to invent your own method. Because the less people that use your method the better.*
> 
> You see chartists affect stock prices, Companies usually do not change day to day, perceptions do. So when backtesting or trading in hindsight you are really just seeing what other chartists did, patterns occur because chartists make them occur!!
> 
> I'd suggest most trading methodologies work better in backtesting than when used on future trades because of this phenomenon.




I agree !
I don't use charts for much of my trading, I use maths and pattern matching
generated by my test suite to detect repeating patterns alot of the time the pattern detected is contrary to generally accepted trade setups


----------



## Freddo

Sycom's down and we are back around 4905 again.
I'm still looking at short entry at 4892, I'd need to see
4975 to start zooming in for a possible long entry.

Might get a chance to go scalping this afternoon


----------



## Freddo

wayneL said:
			
		

> Say! I've got square of nine in my software, but got no idea what values to put in. Anyone care to enlighten me... genuinely interested. It's asking for "anchor value" and "degree".
> 
> Cheers




At last young WayneL_walker you have come to the "dark" side 
 :vader: 

Forget the death star, the square of 9 will make you unstoppable   

Check out these articles for a start

http://www.marketinsight.com.au/articles/?name=Ganns_Square_of_Nine

http://www.lambertganneducators.com/newsletters/article_squareofnine-part1.php

http://www.lambertganneducators.com/newsletters/article_squareofnine-part2.php

I'm certain I have some brilliant info on the square of nine, it must be good
it cost me $7,500


----------



## Realist

Well the Dow is down overnight, I'll stay out for this morning I think.  But I would not be surprised to see a rally - if I miss it so be it.

Wayne the DOW theory is a rotten egg and does not work.


----------



## Bronte

Interesting night :screwy: 
Dow -97.4
FTSE +42.4
SPI SYCOM -46


----------



## Freddo

wayneL said:
			
		

> So is Dow theory the Chicken or the egg?   Pass!
> 
> Cheers




Sorry I know this isn't trading the SPI but
I found the following amusing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_chicken_or_the_egg


----------



## Bronte

wayneL said:
			
		

> resistance at 1285
> support at 1269.5
> 
> Which of course means I SSold @ 1285 and covered at 1269.5
> 
> And because this is a hindsite trade I had the foresight to put 100's of cars on
> 
> Just taking the P!ss
> 
> Also:
> 
> "I don't trade the SPI"
> 
> "Yes, I did make some calls....some live"
> 
> "I never sent you a PM"




Still attacking me and not the system Wayne?
Yes, I have admitted that I do have some faults


----------



## neo

I think we could get an upward move after the open today.
However labour force data is due today (11:30 I think)........expected unemployment at 4.9%....if unexpected, could this cause some market moves???


----------



## Freddo

neo said:
			
		

> I think we could get an upward move after the open today.
> However labour force data is due today (11:30 I think)........expected unemployment at 4.9%....if unexpected, could this cause some market moves???




Good point Neo,

We have seen the market rotating up from 4905/4910 level
and down from just over 5000 during this period of sidewards movement.
So I think it should rally on open today.

My swing chart is pointing down though so I am concentrating looking for an entry on the short side. I won't ignore the long side but it has to do a fair amount of work for my indicators to start lining up for a long entry.

Apart from scalping of course


----------



## Ageo

If the market opens lower (which it should) and then starts to move up, thats when ill jump on.

Hopefully another big swing off the bat today.


----------



## Realist

Yep if there is a rally this morning, which I think there will be on the back of BHP, Westfield (who went ex dividend yesterday), RIO, etc. I'd probably take the gain then short at about 11:25am.  The afternoon will be down I'm sure of it..

So just for fun I will buy at the opening price, sell at 11:25am, then short until about 3:40pm...

With No stop losses...  yeeeouch. Seat of the pants stuff.

We'll see what I end up with...    

Bronte, I look forward to seeing if you can beat this with that dead dudes theory - what did he tell you to do this mornng?


----------



## Realist

Ageo said:
			
		

> If the market opens lower (which it should) and then starts to move up, thats when ill jump on.
> 
> Hopefully another big swing off the bat today.




I think, despite the Dow going down overnight the ASX will open higher.

BHP will get the ball rolling, it's a good price now, gonna have a special divvie soon, and went down a fair bit yesterday.

We'll see..  I'lll grab a coffee and watch the action..


----------



## Freddo

Knives are sharpened, I'm free until lunchtime
so it's scalp city.

Here's an overview ...
give the open 6 points then trade in whatever direction it has gone
stop loss 1 point below the open.

Scalping, I'll be using a 2 and 5 minute swing if it doesn't rocket away
in one direction.

Lastly - watch the close for a position trade a trade thay would make most trades pee their pants


----------



## Realist

Freddo said:
			
		

> Knives are sharpened, I'm free until lunchtime
> so it's scalp city.
> 
> Here's an overview ...
> give the open 6 points then trade in whatever direction it has gone
> stop loss 1 point below the open.
> 
> Scalping, I'll be using a 2 and 5 minute swing if it doesn't rocket away
> in one direction.




Fair enough, it should work.   



> Lastly - watch the close for a position trade a trade thay would make most trades pee their pants




What does this mean, please explain?


----------



## Bronte

You boys are great...
"dead dudes theory"  
"pee their pants"  
We are with Ageo & neo this morning.
Orders are in to Buy a LOW Open


----------



## Freddo

Realist said:
			
		

> Fair enough, it should work.
> 
> 
> 
> What does this mean, please explain?




What I meant by that was in the same thnking as you mentioned before
don't what everbody else does.

I look for trades that make me sick to the stomach , it's setups that
would make some traders almost wet themselves because it's so contrarian.
I guess it's a bit like a Larry Williams Oops setup.


----------



## Ageo

Freddo said:
			
		

> What I meant by that was in the same thnking as you mentioned before
> don't what everbody else does.
> 
> I look for trades that make me sick to the stomach , it's setups that
> would make some traders almost wet themselves because it's so contrarian.
> I guess it's a bit like a Larry Williams Oops setup.




lol nice, i should try that sometime.


----------



## Ageo

missed the open but im long @ 4913 on the A200

20 contracts

stop is 20 points for extra buffer


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> You boys are great...
> "dead dudes theory"
> "pee their pants"
> We are with Ageo & neo this morning.
> *Orders are in to Buy a LOW Open *



Like shelling peas  
Bought Open 4884
+8 +10 Already taken
Stoploss covered 
Shooks.....another "Hindsight Trade"


----------



## neo

I'm long and I'm expecting a good rally up...could be wrong though...of course!


----------



## Ageo

hopefully a rally upto gravitation of 4937 should be the key.


----------



## Realist

I'd pull the plug 1 minute in, I thought it was going up, I was wrong.


----------



## neo

Your'e not wrong yet realist!!!!


----------



## Realist

neo said:
			
		

> Your'e not wrong yet realist!!!!





Yes I am...


----------



## Ageo

Realist said:
			
		

> I'd pull the plug 1 minute in, I thought it was going up, I was wrong.




patience, stick to your rules, if your wrong then accept it but i have pulled the plug too soon many times just to notice it starts to go in your favour.


----------



## neo

Ageo,
I have calculated that same number  (??????)


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Like shelling peas
> Bought Open 4884
> +8 +10 Already taken
> Stoploss covered
> Shooks.....another "Hindsight Trade"



4899 + 15 Pts
Obvious Resistance


----------



## Ageo

neo said:
			
		

> Ageo,
> I have calculated that same number  (??????)




not sure what you mean?


----------



## Ageo

im jumping in chat for time being, too much action!


----------



## Realist

Bronte said:
			
		

> 4899 + 15 Pts
> Obvious Resistance




And down it comes, but did you sell?


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> *Orders are in to Buy a LOW Open *



Attacks that we are expecting
"You didn't take that trade"
"It was in Hindsight"
"More B/S"


----------



## Bronte

Realist said:
			
		

> And down it comes, but did you sell?



No we didn't
Now 4904 
+20


----------



## Freddo

let see what happens at 4905


----------



## neo

Resistance passed!
XJO also turned up!


----------



## Realist

Bronte said:
			
		

> Attacks that we are expecting
> "You didn't take that trade"
> "It was in Hindsight"
> "More B/S"




Well if you want no backlash..

Please just say "bought at 1234"

"sold at 1234"

No-one cares too much about resistance or support cause that is just your opinion.  So telling us is fine but it has nothing to do with the fact of buying and selling.

Only ever say buy or sell - and thjere will never be any confusion.


----------



## Realist

Bronte said:
			
		

> No we didn't
> Now 4904
> +20




How convenient..      

When you do sell please say the 4 letters SELL.


----------



## Ageo

9 points up so far


----------



## Bronte

Realist said:
			
		

> Well if you want no backlash..
> Please just say "bought at 1234"
> "sold at 1234"
> No-one cares too much about resistance or support cause that is just your opinion.  So telling us is fine but it has nothing to do with the fact of buying and selling.
> Only ever say buy or sell - and thjere will never be any confusion.



I am a little like you Realist......*I like backlash*
Now 4906


----------



## Freddo

righto lets see what happens at 4910


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Attacks that we are expecting
> "You didn't take that trade"
> "It was in Hindsight"
> "More B/S"



After nearly four years of doing this.
We would be disappointed without backlash


----------



## Ageo

20 points up

moved stop to lock in 10 points.

10 point trailing stop. although if it hits 40 im gonna tighten it to 5 point trailing.


----------



## Bronte

Now 4918


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Now 4918



There HAS been some Resistance here


----------



## Freddo

I'm out, entered at the open plus 6 as per earlier post.
watched 4905, 4910 figured next spot was 4915 all these are based
on previous days price action.
exited 4914. Only traded 2 contracts but it's still a great mornings work


----------



## Realist

Freddo said:
			
		

> I'm out, entered at the open plus 6 as per earlier post.
> watched 4905, 4910 figured next spot was 4915 all these are based
> on previous days price action.
> exited 4914. Only traded 2 contracts but it's still a great mornings work





Well done Freddo, why are you out though?  What was the reason?


----------



## Bronte

Well done Freddo.
"a great mornings work"  
Joking aside....Let's hope we have *all * made money
by helping each other here on "Trading the SPI"


----------



## Freddo

Realist said:
			
		

> Well done Freddo, why are you out though?  What was the reason?




Sorry, forgot to say I exited because I have to go to my "day" job !
Can't watch it while I'm away...

If my wife was home today I would sit her down and make here hold the trade for me and move my stops

Have a great day I'll see you all at the close


----------



## Ageo

well done Freddo,

hopefully the A200 hits 4943 so i can lock in a 20 point gain.

but it needs to move soon as i dont see this rally lasting all day. (but then again what do i know lol)


----------



## Realist

Freddo said:
			
		

> Sorry, forgot to say I exited because I have to go to my "day" job !
> Can't watch it while I'm away...
> 
> If my wife was home today I would sit her down and make here hold the trade for me and move my stops
> 
> Have a great day I'll see you all at the close





Haha, I see so you sold cause you gotta go to work and your wife is not home today..

Fair enough, everyone has their reasons...   Classic


----------



## Bronte

Realist said:
			
		

> I'd pull the plug 1 minute in, I thought it was going up, I was wrong.



Have you been beaten by a dead dude?  
At 4924 I will SELL +40


----------



## Bronte

Now 4924  ($1000 per contract)


----------



## Realist

Bronte said:
			
		

> Have you been beaten by a dead dude?
> At 4924 I will SELL +40




Nup, cause I never bought.  And the day is not over...

You've just bloody done what I said to do early this morning anyway, buy and sell at about 11:20m, then maybe short...


----------



## Bronte

Reason....I like Round numbers  
Got to go shopping......
Oh! dead man Resistance at 4924/28/30


----------



## Bronte

Hehe!  
Good on ya Realist
It has been fun.


----------



## Ageo

30 points up,

stop moves to lock in 20 points profit.

so far so good, lets see how far this baby can run.

Im expecting it to hold here but who knows


----------



## Realist

Well Done Bronte, I have no argiments with your posting today.

If you say Buy and Sell and it is time stamped, then no problemo, It looks like you made some money, so you may as well go shopping.

I'll sit here at work in the meantime.    

The question is I am at work, am I working hard, or hardly working?


----------



## nat

morning all ,question for ageo ,did your aussie 200 charts work first up ,mine were frozen from yesterdays trade ,got them working eventually 5 to 10 mins after open ,rang cmc they sent a email with a bug fix for the charting was, just wondering if your charts worked ok?nathan


----------



## nat

Realist said:
			
		

> Nup, cause I never bought.  And the day is not over...
> 
> You've just bloody done what I said to do early this morning anyway, buy and sell at about 11:20m, then maybe short...



wow realist you were close to the money ,just got to back your thoughts with some moneyNathan


----------



## Bronte

Thanks Realist.
4926 High
Now 4908


----------



## Realist

nat said:
			
		

> wow realist you were close to the money ,just got to back your thoughts with some moneyNathan





I don't trade though....

No doubt I always be right until I put real money down and it blows up in my face..


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Oh! dead man Resistance at 4924/28/30



Not bad is he?


----------



## Ageo

Ageo said:
			
		

> 30 points up,
> 
> stop moves to lock in 20 points profit.
> 
> so far so good, lets see how far this baby can run.
> 
> Im expecting it to hold here but who knows




well it ended up holding and then retraced. My trailing stop was hit and i made 20points.

$400 net

not bad for a mornings work

Nat i had no problems with my charts this morning


----------



## nat

First res was at 33points from low of day which is always a res level and it also was on the 150 ema on 2 min chart which is always hard to get through .
The next one was a standard daily pivot point which it touched and then free fell from,just my thougths,Nathan


----------



## Realist

Bronte said:
			
		

> Not bad is he?




No better than me who wildly guessed hours ago without even looking at a chart though..

 

My next tip is.

You'll keep making tiny profits until a big loss comes...


----------



## nat

Ok thanx ageo ill run their bug fix and c how it goes tomorrow.Nat


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> *Oh! dead man Resistance at 4924/28/*30



Stoploss's are *always* used Realist......Do a search  
Now 4898


----------



## Bronte

Chart above shows todays "Hindsight dead mans Support / Resistance trade"


----------



## Realist

Bronte said:
			
		

> Stoploss's are *always* used Realist......Do a search
> Now 4898





Yes but stop losses don't work if no-one is buying.  There may be a time you can't sell.


Your bloody graph just shows lines before the fall, anyone can do that.....


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Oh! dead man Resistance at 4924/28/30



Quote date stamped 11.22AM


----------



## Realist

Realist said:
			
		

> So just for fun I will buy at the opening price, sell at 11:25am, then short until about 3:40pm...




Date stamped 9:31am...


----------



## Bronte

Posted BEFORE the drop....see chart again:


----------



## neo

Why did the market drop at 11:30?

ABS unemployment figures released at 11:30.
Unemployment at 4.8% (expected 4.9%)


----------



## Ageo

neo said:
			
		

> Why did the market drop at 11:30?
> 
> ABS unemployment figures released at 11:30.
> Unemployment at 4.8% (expected 4.9%)




Neo could be the bears seeing a opportunity to snatch some shorts.

But i do see the A200 moving up to around 4954.

Im tempted to go long again but i think i have made my money for today.


----------



## Realist

neo said:
			
		

> Why did the market drop at 11:30?
> 
> ABS unemployment figures released at 11:30.
> Unemployment at 4.8% (expected 4.9%)




Low unemployment means a tight labour market, means higher wages, means inflationary pressures, means rate rises.

Higher rates = lower shares.  Safer to move money into the bank.

So the SPI is down.

Hence why this morning I said sell at 11:25am.

Deadman Gann said the same thing apparently...


----------



## Bronte

Yes and the great man died over 51 years ago...amazing


----------



## Realist

What is he saying now Bronte??    

What is the SPI now - I have no live data!!    


Incidently I bought. "Trading the SPI" by Brent Penfold today.  Seems like a good book, I will read it tonite.   Anyone read it?

I've read about 5 pages and like what I've seen so far.


----------



## Bronte

We will make a trader out of you Realist 
SPI now 4916


----------



## Realist

Bronte, 

Quick question..

Can you buy the SPI at exactly the opening price though??

Is there not slippage?

I know if I wanna buy BHP in the morning after it closed at say $25, it could be $26 before my bloody order is processed.

Surely you can't just buy the SPI at the opening price?


----------



## Bronte

Realist said:
			
		

> Well Done Bronte, I have no argiments with your posting today.
> If you say Buy and Sell and it is time stamped, then no problemo



Hehe! ALL CALLS LIVE
Just recapping we said "Buy Low Open"
We had a very Low start to the day 4884
"Sell 4924" For a 40 point gain.....just before a drop


----------



## Realist

Bronte said:
			
		

> We will make a trader out of you Realist
> SPI now 4916




And probably going down...

The rate rises and petrol prices are certainly bad news at the moment.


----------



## Bronte

Realist said:
			
		

> Bronte,
> Quick question..
> Can you buy the SPI at exactly the opening price though??



My order was a limit order
"Buy XX SPI contracts at 4900 on Limit"
Any open below 4900 would have been a fill


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> My order was a limit order
> "Buy XX SPI contracts at 4900 on Limit"
> Any open below 4900 would have been a fill



Types of orders  
Page 40 / 52 of your new book.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Hehe! *ALL CALLS LIVE*
> Just recapping we said "Buy Low Open"
> We had a very Low start to the day 4884
> "Sell 4924" For a 40 point gain.....just before a drop



SPI now 4904
Nice call Realist


----------



## Realist

Bronte said:
			
		

> Types of orders
> Page 40 / 52 of your new book.





Ohh cool thanks.  Pretty much what I expected.


Any more trades for you today?


----------



## Ageo

Realist said:
			
		

> The rate rises and petrol prices are certainly bad news at the moment.





Thats why im long in US crude oil


----------



## wayneL

Freddo said:
			
		

> At last young WayneL_walker you have come to the "dark" side
> :vader:
> 
> Forget the death star, the square of 9 will make you unstoppable
> 
> Check out these articles for a start
> 
> http://www.marketinsight.com.au/articles/?name=Ganns_Square_of_Nine
> 
> http://www.lambertganneducators.com/newsletters/article_squareofnine-part1.php
> 
> http://www.lambertganneducators.com/newsletters/article_squareofnine-part2.php
> 
> I'm certain I have some brilliant info on the square of nine, it must be good
> it cost me $7,500




Muchas Gracias Freddo,

Much appreciated.

This should keep me off Bronte's back for a little while.  

Cheers


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Still attacking me and not the system Wayne?
> Yes, I have admitted that I do have some faults






> Originally Posted by wayneL
> resistance at 1285
> support at 1269.5
> 
> Which of course means I SSold @ 1285 and covered at 1269.5
> 
> And because this is a hindsite trade I had the foresight to put 100's of cars on
> 
> Just taking the P!ss




My My! You ARE paranoid aren'y you?

Where in my post did I mention your name? Where did I attack any person? If I am attacking anything is the *system* of late calls. So I am doing exactly as you suggest I should do.

Bronte, just call the trades honestly, on time/live and NOBODY has a problem. I don't know why you are arguing with this.

I will continue to keep you honest over this.

Cheers


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Oh! dead man Resistance at 4924/28/30



Gann Resistance at 4924/28
Gann Support at 4884

Which of course means I BBought @ 4884 and covered @ 4924


----------



## Bronte

Resistance has held twice


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Gann Resistance at 4924/28
> Gann Support at 4884
> 
> Which of course means I BBought @ 4884 and covered @ 4924




....and with the benefit of hindsite, you had the foresight to clean out the SFE of all long contracts on offer right?

I actually deposited more funds in my A/C trebled the size of my hindsite trade. You'll have to wait till tommorrow to find out whether I am still holding   

Contary to popular belief, Dr Who ain't the only remaining Time Lord you know.  :


----------



## Bronte

We saw 4901 Low just before the Close 4903


----------



## Bronte

We are really having trouble with the website Joe
Slow loading etc......Just thought I would report it.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> We are really having trouble with the website Joe
> Slow loading etc......Just thought I would report it.



All is back to normal now.....thanks


----------



## Bronte

Sycom has been down to 4874 Low
Now 4887  Volume 820


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Just a word of warning about "Gann Square of Nine"
> There is a lot of rubbish posted about this Gann tool.
> In the right hands, used correctly it works very well
> Battman does use it when "Trading the SPI"




Perhaps Battman or yourself could post some usefull info about GS9 in the thread I started.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4129

Any help in understanding this tool is greatly appreciated.


----------



## Bronte

Freddo said:
			
		

> At last young WayneL_walker you have come to the "dark" side  :vader:
> Forget the death star, the square of 9 will make you unstoppable
> Check out these articles for a start
> http://www.marketinsight.com.au/articles/?name=Ganns_Square_of_Nine
> http://www.lambertganneducators.com/newsletters/article_squareofnine-part1.php
> http://www.lambertganneducators.com/newsletters/article_squareofnine-part2.php
> I'm certain I have some brilliant info on the square of nine, it must be good
> it cost me $7,500



These are great links Freddo,
They should help Wayne with his studies.


----------



## Bronte

Only $7500 !!!!   I was ripped off


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> These are great link Freddo,
> They should help Wayne with his studies.




So you don't want to help out?

There are lot's of people who are curious about this and would like some helpful hints.


----------



## dutchie

WayneL your flogging a dead horse.

Cheers

Dutchie


----------



## Bronte

Yes and the horse has been dead for 51 years.    :horse:


----------



## Freddo

RE: Square of nine


			
				wayneL said:
			
		

> Muchas Gracias Freddo,
> 
> Much appreciated.




no problem 

RE your starting point question, this is often defaulted to 1.
You would need a very big square if the start was 1 to get out to near current SPI value.

So you can use a significant price for the start value, say all time low 458
or 1987 low 1054 or you may want to use something more recent
because some argue the SPI200 @$25 a point is an in the age of electronic
trading is not the same as the SPI @ $100 a point 

On the square there are 8points which make up the points of  a cardinal square and ordinal square..

the cardinal square is 0/360 deg, 90 deg, 180 deg, and 270
the ordinal 45,135,225 and 315 degrees

These degrees match up to seaonal dates and often prove to be times of signifcant action in the market place. 
eg on cardinal square 180 degrees is 21 march (although it varys slightly year to year) check out our market around 21st march each year.

According to Gann you should watch for tops and bottoms which are exact squares of numbers.

If a number and a date align on the square  then thats a strong sign
as is a price on one sdie of the square and the date 180 degrees opposite

There is ALOT more to the square of 9.

*I don't use it, I don't claim it works * I did build my own version of the square
of 9 using perspex circles. It actually worked brilliantly in 1998 for about a year then the wheels fell off the wagon.

It still looks impressive! 

Regards
Freddo

PS no trades from me this afternoon


----------



## wayneL

dutchie said:
			
		

> WayneL your flogging a dead horse.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dutchie




Dutchie, It is surprisingly adept at bobbing, weaving, ducking and sidestepping for something allegedly deceased.


----------



## Bronte

Nice post Freddo.... thanks for helping out


----------



## Freddo

Bronte said:
			
		

> Only $7500 !!!!   I was ripped off




  When I bought it I was in the early stages of learning to sell.

They "sold" me but I "sold" them the idea that I should get a heavily
discounted price


----------



## dutchie

WayneL - many similarities to the MUL thread.

- a lot of posts with not much substance.

anyway to each their own.

Cheers

Dutchie


----------



## wayneL

Freddo

Again, Thanks.

That gives me something to work with.

Cheers


----------



## Bronte

Just a thought.....
What other forum.....thread.......could make a trader: *$1000 per contract* in only a few minutes.....
just by following the Buy / Sell signals of one individual....who has been doing similar for nearly four years........WAKE UP ! Thanks Joe


----------



## Freddo

wayneL said:
			
		

> Freddo
> 
> Again, Thanks.
> That gives me something to work with.
> 
> Cheers




No problem, I have dragged out all my Gann "stuff" I have boxes of it!!

ALL of it comes from my early days of trading and alot of it I had one look at and when I saw it wasn't just add water and become an instant trader I put it aside.

I'll let you know if I find something interesting.
Cheers Freddo


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Just a thought.....
> What other forum.....thread.......could make a trader: *$1000 per contract* in only a few minutes.....
> just by following the Buy / Sell signals of one individual....who has been doing similar for nearly four years........WAKE UP ! Thanks Joe




I do that many days a month too Bronte. No magic in that.

But it is very dangerous to follow anyones signals without understanding them. Especially when incomplete, late, no Plan B etc. That's all I'm asking for, is some understanding of how, why etc.

Not unreasonable considering the lengths many of us have gone to help other people to understand... FREE!!!


----------



## Bronte

*Hi Wayne, 
Can you do it for us tomorrow or at least soon please?*


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Hi Wayne,
> Can you do it for us tomorrow or at least soon please?




Easy, just trade off pivots. Even easier in hindsight


----------



## Bronte

So you will show us a trade then?
A LIVE one as shown today please


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Just a thought.....
> What other forum.....thread.......could make a trader: *$1000 per contract* in only a few minutes.....
> just by following the Buy / Sell signals of one individual....who has been doing similar for nearly four years........WAKE UP ! Thanks Joe



Thank you Wayne....we  will look forward to that


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> So you will show us a trade then?
> A LIVE one as shown today please




I prefer not to, because I won't always be able to post in a timely fashion as I am also trading 16 other futures contracts and several stocks, often with options spreads.

I may take a trade and immediately have deal with some other situation. 

Integrity is paramount, so if I can't post actual trades immediatley, then I won't post them at all. But I do take time out to discuss the process. I'm quite happy to do that.  

Cheers


----------



## onemore

Heres an Article on the" Dead Dude"
The third last paragraph relates to some one on this forum  


http://www.indextrader.com.au/WD_Gann.asp


----------



## Bronte

We and I am sure others here are very disappointed in you Wayne.


----------



## Bronte

We ALL have to prove ourselves at some stage.


----------



## Bronte

wayneL said:
			
		

> I do that many days a month too Bronte. No magic in that.



 Wayne, I think that trading & making money is very special. 
Plenty of magic is still left in it for me to enjoy


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> We and I am sure others here are very disappointed in you Wayne.




What? For doing nothing but help people to the best of my ability and for being transparent and truthful? Ludicrous!

Let me ask you a question. Who is the one being evasive here?


----------



## Bronte

We *both* are being elusive  & evasive Wayne.


----------



## Ageo

Hmm too complex for me.

ill see you's in the morning for the opening


----------



## Bronte

wayneL said:
			
		

> Easy, just trade off pivots.



Easy.... ok, so just let us know the pivots and we will assume the rest


----------



## Bronte

In the morning.....good night.


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> We *both* are being elusive  & evasive Wayne.




I don't think so. Have a look through these forums and see how much information I've given away for free. I literally cannot post live a lot of the time so the only honest thing is to not post any trades. I cannot be more upfront than that. I am quite happy to discuss the process when I have the time.

That is my position.

Cheers


----------



## Bobby

This came to my attention :

Regulatory controls on insider trading in the U.S. , do not apply in Australia.
Most large trading houses in Australia are branches of major U.S. trading houses .

Regultory controls in Australia do not apply regarding futures trading !!  
Can you beleave this ?

The Australian market tracks the S&P500 index point for point overnight ( Ausse time ), and responds to any moves in the DOW during the opening session the following day ( Ausse time ).

If a major U.S. institution was aware of something that could have an effect on the DOW, which cannot be taken advantage of in the U.S. , its possable to take positions in the Australian futures market, one day, & exit the following day, on the opening.

What do you think of this ?

Bob.


----------



## wayneL

Bobby said:
			
		

> This came to my attention :
> 
> Regulatory controls on insider trading in the U.S. , do not apply in Australia.
> Most large trading houses in Australia are branches of major U.S. trading houses .
> 
> Regultory controls in Australia do not apply regarding futures trading !!
> Can you beleave this ?
> 
> The Australian market tracks the S&P500 index point for point overnight ( Ausse time ), and responds to any moves in the DOW during the opening session the following day ( Ausse time ).
> 
> If a major U.S. institution was aware of something that could have an effect on the DOW, which cannot be taken advantage of in the U.S. , its possable to take positions in the Australian futures market, one day, & exit the following day, on the opening.
> 
> What do you think of this ?
> 
> Bob.




I have had my suspicions Bobby. But can't confirm for sure.


----------



## wayneL

wayneL said:
			
		

> Easy, just trade off pivots. Even easier in hindsight




No need to say much.

But a buy at s1 would have yielded minimum 1000 *USD* per contract. (As this is hindsight, not saying whether I took the trade)

There was also minimum 1000 USD on silver, gold,  and greter than 500 USD on euro futures and crude oil EmiNYs *per contract,* trading off pivots.

They don't work 100% of the time, but often enough   

Cheers


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> *Easy*.... ok, so just let us know the *SPI* pivots and we will assume the rest



_"They don't work 100% of the time, but often enough"_ Interesting comment Wayne.

Sycom finished high 4916 after a night of turmoil. 
Dow +48.2


----------



## Bronte

R3 4972.3
R2 4949.6
R1 4926.3
PIVOT 4903.6
S1 4880.3
S2 4857.6
S3 4834.3


----------



## Bronte

They didn't work very well last time we tried them, on this thread earlier in the year. We will see what happens today.


----------



## Bronte

Looks like we may see an Open around R1 (Yesterdays High)


----------



## Poor_Grenville

Bronte said:
			
		

> They didn't work very well last time we tried them, on this thread earlier in the year. We will see what happens today.




It's very difficult to judge whether anything works until you've backed tested it for at least a few years... so to say this works or not really does not do it any justice!


----------



## neo

HI all, 
Looking to buy in at a low open again...
Any thoughts?


----------



## Bronte

Yes, we agree with that Poor_G


----------



## Bronte

We have orders to buy around the pivot point....that's a Low Open


----------



## neo

Open too high for my liking...have to wait for entry


----------



## Bronte

4920 Open Too High


----------



## Ageo

Short @ 4940 on the A200.

20 contracts


----------



## Bronte

Where will you enter neo?


----------



## Bronte

SPI is down on low volume 4912.....watch out


----------



## Ageo

That was a hero trade hehe,

stopped out for 10 point loss.

ill get em back thow


----------



## Bronte

4926 R1 is doing well
Yesterdays High was 4927
Yesterdays *Gann Resistance * was also here  
Now 4912 Low


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> We have orders to buy around the pivot point....that's a Low Open



We did have orders to buy 4905 now cancelled.


----------



## Bronte

Now 4907 seems to be holding for the second time


----------



## neo

Could we have seen the bottom?
Could it be all up from here?
I'm long at 4910..????


----------



## Bronte

Story so far:


----------



## Ageo

strange 1st open that has stagnated in many days.

hopefully a breakout should occur soon.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Now 4907 seems to be holding for the second time



Do you have a stoploss / target neo?


----------



## Bronte

Good luck with your trade  
SPI now 4916 +6


----------



## neo

Initial Stop loss 4900
Target 4930-4935
Trailing stops (not set in concrete)


----------



## Bronte

You have done very well neo....  

Please remember dead dude rules:

W D Gann Rule No.4. *Never let a profit run into a loss.*

SPI now 4912


----------



## Bronte

We could see 4909
Now 4911


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> We could see 4909
> Now 4911



The Friday lunchtime drift


----------



## neo

Wise rules from a dead man!
Sorry, had to do stuff ....I try to trade while I'm at my real job with my partner at home for back up.
OK profit made today (+10) .
That's me for today.... I think!


----------



## Realist

My guess for what it is worth is buy long about 12:50pm and hold till 3:20pm.

We'll see how I do...


----------



## neo

Sounds like a plan Realist..
Maybe now is a good time to take that long trade...
SPI keeps bouncing off 4911 ????????????


----------



## Realist

Yeah I think it'll go long for a little while until people jump out before 4pm before heading off to the pub for the weekend.


----------



## neo

Me too.......entry 4912!!!


----------



## Ageo

boring..........


----------



## neo

sure is!!!.........should pick up soon!


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> They didn't work very well last time we tried them, on this thread earlier in the year. We will see what happens today.




I wouldn't have said that.

There are days when nothing works, not even hindsite  

BTW, Pivots have been around longer than Gann


----------



## Bronte

Action....4904 Low
A move to the downside lads


----------



## Bronte

Where are your stops neo / Realist ?


----------



## neo

Yeah, bugger!!..... just gave back half my mornings' profit!!!!!!!
Done for the day, definately now!!!!!
Should remember not to overtrade!!!!!!


----------



## Realist

> Where are your stops neo / Realist ?




No stops!!!

What was my buy price at 12:50pm?

If I go long and it goes down a bit I hold. And hold.

(I can see the traders either fainting or laughing as I speak)

When's the last day you can sell? - 3rd week of September I think....


Hey has anyone thought of buying the SPI and holding for 3 months?  Good investment?


----------



## Bronte

12.50pm
I will post a chart for us all to see


----------



## Ageo

Realist said:
			
		

> Hey has anyone thought of buying the SPI and holding for 3 months?  Good investment?




Usually when you are day trading its with some form of leverage.

Holding for 3 months would mean your stops at least 100 points or so away to allow for movement.

100 points to some people is a big risk factor

The reason why i daytrade is because i can place my stops at a risk level of no more than 1% of my capital which is usually 10 points away.

100 points away means a 10% risk on my capital

Plus there is other issues like financing costs etc..

I only hold shares/commodoties and currencies over night (if i have to). Indicies are always traded intraday and never held overnight.

Thats how i do it anyway


----------



## Bronte

Realist said:
			
		

> My guess for what it is worth is buy long about 12:50pm and hold till 3:20pm.
> We'll see how I do...



Ok


----------



## Realist

Ageo, most traders do what you do. Of course, it is what all the books and "experts" say.  That does not mean it is right though.

I would never short without stop losses, but going long on an index which over time increases about 10% per year and is not tremendously "overvalued" at the moment it would not be too unwise to leave stop losses off and just wait for losses to recover.

Stop losses often lose more money than they save. I know most will disagree but it is how I feel.

Anyway - I'll see what my 12:50pm buy was and I tell you when I'll sell.  It could be a month from now.


----------



## Realist

Thanks Bronte so I bought about 4912, and it went down to 4905.

Down $175 - no stop loss. I'll wait (and hope).


----------



## Bronte

4914 +2


----------



## Bronte

How is the book going Realist?
It has made you $50 !!!!!!


----------



## Ageo

Realist said:
			
		

> I would never short without stop losses, but going long on an index which over time increases about 10% per year and is not tremendously "overvalued" at the moment it would not be too unwise to leave stop losses off and just wait for losses to recover.
> 
> Stop losses often lose more money than they save. I know most will disagree but it is how I feel.




lol realist are you on speed atm?

lets take your example of not having a stop loss.

I go long @ 4941 20 contracts ($20 per point move +/-)

lets say it then drops to 4841 but you decide to stay on hoping it goes up.

Let say it then moves over time to 4500.

That means you have a 491 point loss which = -$9821.

What happens if it moves down more? that is why i think you dont use leveraged products realist because in that post above it clearly shows you have no idea on "how to use them"

Sorry mate but im just being "realistic"


----------



## Realist

Ageo said:
			
		

> lol realist are you on speed atm?
> 
> lets take your example of not having a stop loss.
> 
> I go long @ 4941 20 contracts ($20 per point move +/-)
> 
> lets say it then drops to 4841 but you decide to stay on hoping it goes up.
> 
> Let say it then moves over time to 4500.
> 
> That means you have a 491 point loss which = -$9821.
> 
> What happens if it moves down more? that is why i think you dont use leveraged products realist because in that post above it clearly shows you have no idea on "how to use them"
> 
> Sorry mate but im just being "realistic"





Exactly, that is how all traders think.  "What if the sky falls?"

They all use stop losses, and yet every trading book I read they tell me 90% of traders lose money. Hahaha..

Show me where your example has happened in the past few years though?

And for every one example you show me I can show you 10 where you'd make money to cover that large loss doing it my way.

In a market which goes up 10% year on year it is clear that holding longer and not just jumping when the indexs turns down a little will work.  Unless some Fundamental reason like September 11 or a Hurricane destroying oil rigs or something happens.

The opposite when you are shorting though, if you are wrong jump cause the market will probably keep going up.  I wouldn't short though - it is too dangerous, the odds are against you!


----------



## Realist

Bronte said:
			
		

> How is the book going Realist?
> It has made you $50 !!!!!!




YUP!!!

Others would have jumped.    

What is it now?


----------



## wayneL

Realist said:
			
		

> Exactly, that is how all traders think.  "What if the sky falls?"
> 
> They all use stop losses, and yet every trading book I read they tell me 90% of traders lose money. Hahaha..




Realist

90% of traders lose because of psychological reasons... lack of disipline, lack of capital, lack of knowledge, lack of a plan.

They take wins too quickly ands let losses blow out.

The simple expectancy equation shows how profit is obtained.

Actually, it is your thinking which is the classic losing traders psychology... no stops, it won't go down and if it does it will come back.

A disiplined, well capitalized trader almost cannot help being successful.  

Cheers


----------



## Ageo

realist say your right for 5 yrs.

You make millions because the market over time grew.

But remember all it takes is for 1 crash (major crash) and your history.

anywayz realist, i reckon you should do the opposite and go for it! Put everything on the line.

I mean hey, like you said the market can only go up over the long term ay?


----------



## Realist

Trading with stop losses is done by Roulette punters.

They plan to leave with small losses and try and make large gains when their luck is in.

It works their losses are small and gains large.

BUT.. The problem is the number of small losses outweigh the large gains.

Most traders do not make money because of the many small losses and tax and fees and brokerage killing them.

It is only the one-off gains that keep them interested, much like gambling or lotto - people like to ignore the small losses and enjoy the large gains.


Wayne, your portrayl of trading being so easy to profit defies reality. Most traders lose, most experienced traders realise this and admit this, Guppy, Leon Whatshisname, Richard Fairleigh, Ben Graham, Warren Buffet and Brett Penfold acknowledge this.

So me where any credible person says "most traders make money"

There are only 2 types of people who consistently make money from Wall St.  Brokers (who get money from brokerage), and Long Term well diversified value investors.

Traders, Punters, and specualtors overall lose money.


----------



## Realist

Ageo said:
			
		

> realist say your right for 5 yrs.
> 
> You make millions because the market over time grew.
> 
> But remember all it takes is for 1 crash (major crash) and your history.
> 
> anywayz realist, i reckon you should do the opposite and go for it! Put everything on the line.
> 
> I mean hey, like you said the market can only go up over the long term ay?





When in the past 50 years has the market ever lost 50% or more??

When has it even lost 20% or more??

You are telling me "the sky might fall"

When has it fallen????????????????????

The ASX doubled the past 3 years - and you are worried about some magical crash of 50% hahaha.

I'm telling you yes you are right it might fall, but the odds are it will rise and continue to rise.

I am right, so are you,  just my probablity is way way higher than yours.  The past 50 years is my reference.

What is your reference?


----------



## swingstar

Oh no, not in this thread too!


----------



## Realist

Ageo,

Lets say I buy the SPI at the open each quarter and sell at the close each quarter and do so for the past 10 years.

Now compare my results with your current results.

I win!

I know you'll agree.

Simple as that.  and I do not even know your results or the SPI results.


Your one and only answer is "yeah but it may crash"

My answer is when has it ever crashed?   When has the sky ever fallen?  when have Sydney house prices ever crashed?

And any example you give can be blown out of the water by all the increases over the time.


You wont accept it, but time in the market is more important than timing the market.


----------



## Realist

swingstar said:
			
		

> Oh no, not in this thread too!





YES IN THIS THREAD TO!!!

What is the SPI now?


----------



## Bronte

4915  That's another 25 bucks  :hide:


----------



## wayneL

Realist said:
			
		

> Trading with stop losses is done by Roulette punters.
> 
> They plan to leave with small losses and try and make large gains when their luck is in.
> 
> It works their losses are small and gains large.
> 
> BUT.. The problem is the number of small losses outweigh the large gains.




you are obviously not aware of the expectancy equation.

In roulette, no matter what staking plan, stop losses, whatever you use, you cannot remove the negative expectancy.

Traders in markets can create positive expectancies. It is not easy because of psychological reasons. But it is relatively simple.

This is not rocket science


----------



## wayneL

Realist said:
			
		

> Ageo,
> 
> Lets say I buy the SPI at the open each quarter and sell at the close each quarter and do so for the past 10 years.
> 
> Now compare my results with your current results.
> 
> I win!
> 
> I know you'll agree.
> 
> Simple as that.  and I do not even know your results or the SPI results.
> 
> 
> Your one and only answer is "yeah but it may crash"
> 
> My answer is when has it ever crashed?   When has the sky ever fallen?  when have Sydney house prices ever crashed?
> 
> And any example you give can be blown out of the water by all the increases over the time.
> 
> 
> You wont accept it, but time in the market is more important than timing the market.





The reason Ageo will beat you is because he will trade in a face value many many times that you will be able to invest in.

Ageo wins


----------



## Realist

wayneL said:
			
		

> The reason Ageo will beat you is because he will trade in a face value many many times that you will be able to invest in.
> 
> Ageo wins





I wonder Wayne.

I don't doubt some traders would beat me, I suspect 95% would not though.

Your thoughts?

What about your thoughts on Brent Penfold saying 90% of traders lose on the SPI? 

Psychology?? What is an example - do you not trade mechanically?


----------



## Ageo

thankyou Wayne. I didnt want to turn this into a political thread.

No point in trying to prove me wrong Realist.

Like i said if your right then why not go practice what you preach?

Results speak louder than words


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> 4915  That's another 25 bucks  :hide:



Let me know when the coast is clear   SPI 4912


----------



## Realist

Bronte said:
			
		

> Let me know when the coast is clear   SPI 4912





I sold at 3:20 as my per post a few hours ago of course...


----------



## Realist

Ageo said:
			
		

> thankyou Wayne. I didnt want to turn this into a political thread.
> 
> No point in trying to prove me wrong Realist.
> 
> Like i said if your right then why not go practice what you preach?
> 
> Results speak louder than words




I do practice what I preach, or more commonly what Graham preaches.

what on earth are you on about?


----------



## wayneL

Realist said:
			
		

> I wonder Wayne.
> 
> I don't doubt some traders would beat me, I suspect 95% would not though.
> 
> Your thoughts?
> 
> What about your thoughts on Brent Penfold saying 90% of traders lose on the SPI?
> 
> Psychology?? What is an example - do you not trade mechanically?




Psychology...

An example. 

Trader is not able to take a loss, so holds a loser then turns into a big loser.

Same trader takes a win as soon as possible so it doesn't turn into a loss.

Repeat.

= one of the 90% of losers.

On the matter of crashes.

It only takes one crash to take you out completely. With futures you can go well past zero. They will come for your assets, your house, your car, your wife... your firstborn if necessary.

e.g. Nick Leeson even took out Barings Bank. The National Bank could have gone the same way with a bit of luck.

******

Just on the roulette scenario. Is not the casino playing the same game? Sure they are, they are betting against you.

One big difference though. They have a *positive expectancy* and win consistently and win big.

Expectancy dude! That's the difference


----------



## Ageo

Realist said:
			
		

> I do practice what I preach, or more commonly what Graham preaches.
> 
> what on earth are you on about?




So you are trading the SPI live?

and if you are are you taking on large contracts?


----------



## Realist

wayneL said:
			
		

> It only takes one crash to take you out completely. With futures you can go well past zero. They will come for your assets, your house, your car, your wife... your firstborn if necessary.





When has the SPI ever crashed Wayne?

Your broker will stop you out beofer any major trouble usually anyway.

Expectancy is guesswork. The past is no exact representation of what may happen in the future.  

Someone with some system with an expectancy may just have bought in at 9:00am on September 11, or 1929 or October 1987. And been shat on.

Expectancy is not a scientific fact!!!  It is guesswork!

If charting, trading or expectancies were scientific facts everyone would use them and everyone would make money - they are not though, obviously!!

Your expectancy in reality is worse this year than last year is my guess - and your results will be worse.  Your plan is possibly better though.  Just a guess, am I right?


----------



## Realist

Ageo said:
			
		

> So you are trading the SPI live?
> 
> and if you are are you taking on large contracts?




Certainly not!!

I invest in large undervalued successfull world leaders who make consistent profits and pay large dividends.  I then punt with 10% of my money for education, fun and in the vein hope of making a quick buck.

The SPI is gambling, I'm willing to give it a go, I like blackjack, sports betting and horses, but I have no delusions of ever making money from them. I know the odds are against me.


----------



## professor_frink

And now a random thought from the professor.............

Anyone else noticed how often we are having rallies in the final hour of trade followed by a gap down on the next trading session? Fairly regularly at the moment.

Who's game to short now and hold over the weekend


----------



## Realist

professor_frink said:
			
		

> Who's game to short now and hold over the weekend




What time does trading open on Monday?

I'd be thinking long early on Monday myself....


----------



## Ageo

Realist said:
			
		

> Certainly not!!
> 
> I invest in large undervalued successfull world leaders who make consistent profits and pay large dividends.  I then punt with 10% of my money for education, fun and in the vein hope of making a quick buck.
> 
> The SPI is gambling, I'm willing to give it a go, I like blackjack, sports betting and horses, but I have no delusions of ever making money from them. I know the odds are against me.





this whole talk was about you taking 3 month positions on the SPI instead of daytrading.

You then tried to convince me that it would be more profitable.

Now your saying you would never do it?

 your definately on speed


----------



## professor_frink

Realist said:
			
		

> What time does trading open on Monday?
> 
> I'd be thinking long early on Monday myself....




9.50.

Don't worry Realist, I'm only joking, no o/n holds for me!(although there was point-it's been happening alot lately)


----------



## wayneL

Realist said:
			
		

> When has the SPI ever crashed Wayne?




Here's a *minor* one from not even 10 years ago.

The equivalent move in todays values is 1000 points.

That's $25,000.00 *PER CONTRACT*

The trader would be profiting from this downside move, not recieving margin calls and ending up at bankruptcy hearings because "the SPI never crashes"

Honestly Realist, it's time to leave the ideological nonsense behind. Invest in the SPI if you want. Many people succesfully do.

Many trade it succesfully, fact! Don't go spoiling another thread with silly arguments you know nothing about.


----------



## professor_frink

crap talkin professor said:
			
		

> Who's game to short now and hold over the weekend




Comments withdrawn, she's fallen too much


----------



## professor_frink

She's plummeted straight down to the lower trandline. Monday's open should be interesting. Have a good weekend folks


----------



## Realist

> Honestly Realist, it's time to leave the ideological nonsense behind. Invest in the SPI if you want. Many people succesfully do.
> 
> Many trade it succesfully, fact! Don't go spoiling another thread with silly arguments you know nothing about.




Fair enough I'll stop the argument now.

I do not actually recommend investing in the SPI.  (or trading it actually).

Anyway dudes, enough fun for today, I'm off to do about 20 minutes of exercise then about 4 hours of drinking.

Have a great weekend.


----------



## wayneL

Nice pivots Professor


----------



## professor_frink

wayneL said:
			
		

> Nice pivots Professor




Thanks! Got my local programming genius to code them for me  



			
				Realist said:
			
		

> Anyway dudes, enough fun for today, I'm off to do about 20 minutes of exercise then about 4 hours of drinking.
> 
> Have a great weekend.




Nice work son, nice work. Don't exercise too hard


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> :hide:



Has he gone?

4901 Close - 11 points (or was that pints) :drink:


----------



## Realist

Bronte said:
			
		

> Has he gone?
> 
> 4901 Close - 11 points (or was that pints) :drink:




No.

Off in a minute....

Get back under that chair.


----------



## Ageo

Will be interesting to see when it breaks from the rangebound how far it will go (either way)


----------



## Bronte

Have a nice drinkies, a great weekend and thanks for your input....everyone


----------



## Bronte

Nearly forgot in all the afternoon excitement  
Gann & Pivots worked very well (again) today.
Todays 5 min SPI chart:


----------



## Bronte

Just been asked about Sycom.
We opened at 4906  4913 High


----------



## onemore

http://www.futuresource.com/charts/charts.jsp?s=ASI1!&o=&a=V:2&z=800x550&d=LOW&b=bar&st=


----------



## Bronte

Sycom chart.
Thanks


----------



## Bronte

Dow -36.3 overnight
Sycom 4895 Close
(Low of 4878)


----------



## Bronte

*SPI Pivot points for Monday:*
R3 4945
R2 4935/6
R1 4918
*PP 4908/9*
S1 4891
S2 4881/2
S3 4864


----------



## neo

Bronte,
Where do you get your pivot points from?


----------



## professor_frink

neo said:
			
		

> Bronte,
> Where do you get your pivot points from?




hi neo, you can do it yourself if you want. Just punch in the high low and close for whatever timeframe you want. Easy.

P.s- let me know if the file upload worked


----------



## Bronte

Hi neo, Not difficult to get.
Just do a "Google Search" on 'Pivot points'
Check to see if you get the same numbers as posted.
Good luck


----------



## Bronte

You beat me to it professor


----------



## Bronte

Trend lines are also worth watching.
If these line up with our "Gann Support / Resistances Areas"
We just *have* to take the trade


----------



## professor_frink

So what did you think about your foray back into pivots yest bronte?


----------



## Bronte

They worked extremely well yesterday.
I have been plotting them for the last three years.
If they line up with Battmans/Ganns  Support / Resistance Areas....
I take the trades anyway....just that my tail may wag a little more


----------



## Bronte

It is nice to know what other traders could be using as Support / Resistance
That should mean a stronger trade.
Also 'Trend lines' are interesting.


----------



## Pager

If you use an online platform to trade the Spi, you really really have to constantly check what you do   

Did the silliest thing on the Spi Thursday, trade through IB, placed my order before the open which was buying @ 4900 limit, at 9-49.30 opening match out is 4884 but I was never filled   ?, anyway market opens and im filled @ 4900, im what the hell is going on the market has not even traded 4900 ??, then the penny drops, I placed my order for the December contract    , rather than see what would happen and it being an illiquid contract I jumped out at market which luckily was 4906, so I made a few points, albeit less than if I was in the Sept Contract.

Cheers

Pager


----------



## Bronte

Hi Pager and a big welcome  
I have never got the contracts mixed up.....yet!
Bought when I wanted to Sell.....many times
Sold when I wanted to Buy.........many times
It is soooo easy to do on a trading platform.


----------



## neo

Thanks Bronte, Prof Frink,
Found the formula:
R2=P+(H-L)
R1=(Px2)-L
P=(H+L+C)/3
S1=(Px2)-H
S2=P-(H-L)

Any thoughts for Mondays' trading?  
Once again I will be looking to go long at/near a low open, barring any unforseen event between now and then.


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Hi Pager and a big welcome
> I have never got the contracts mixed up.....yet!
> Bought when I wanted to Sell.....many times
> Sold when I wanted to Buy.........many times
> It is soooo easy to do on a trading platform.




Hehe  So true. My favourite &^%$ up was entering a stop order.... but forgeting to tell the platform it was a stop. Result. immediate exit  

I triple check now, haven't done it for absolute ages.

**touching wood**


----------



## Ageo

I got so cautious about a trade moving against me i wanted to close it before it hit the stop.

Well i did close it but my stop was also hit   

So basically i had another position on without even realising for about 20min.

i then checked my positions and closed it out.

Bad day but great learning experience.


----------



## Bronte

I think it is fair to say that when you start using a trading platform 
you are going to make silly mistakes.......
It would be wise to go back to trading one contract for a while
until you feel comfortable with executing your orders.  
To think the brokers were reluctant to let us have them!!!!
We still make mistakes and it is now far easier to "overtrade"


----------



## Pager

Thanks for the welcome Bronte    and hello to anyone else; have been lurking for a while. 

My silliest mistake    with a trading platform was in the Topix Contract in Japan, it trades in 0.5 ticks, placed my stop 1 day at 13655, should have been 1356.5, then shut my PC and went out for a few hours, market moved against me and I thought I was stopped out, luckily the market bounced that day and although I lost 2 points more than my stop it could have been very ugly.

Have also placed stops and then not transmitted them, placed overnight stops as day stops instead of GTC   .

Thursday’s mistake was the first for along time, and again I tell myself check then double check


----------



## Freddo

lol ....

Trading platforms 
I remember test driving IB's I can;t believe how many mistakes I made.

These days I largely use the broker platform for at market buying and selling.
for any order needing ON STOP orders etc I use phone orders.
Costs me approx $22 for a round trip on the SPI using a phone order
I think thats good value. Eats too much profit for scalping though


----------



## Bronte

neo said:
			
		

> Thanks Bronte, Prof Frink,
> Found the formula:
> R2=P+(H-L)
> R1=(Px2)-L
> P=(H+L+C)/3
> S1=(Px2)-H
> S2=P-(H-L)
> 
> Any thoughts for Mondays' trading?
> Once again I will be looking to go long at/near a *low open*, barring any unforseen event between now and then.



Sounds like a very good plan


----------



## swingstar

Expecting a low open, Bronte? Will be interesting... A decent low open will break the channel it's been trading in.


----------



## Pager

I will be looking for a buy tomorrow and think we may open a bit higher, so maybe a good opportunity to grab a few points with a quick trade if we open more than a few points below the night markets close.

My levels to watch are 4908/9 and 4877/8 which we touched briefly overnight friday.

If we break 4877 the bear hat goes back on


----------



## Bronte

swingstar said:
			
		

> Expecting a low open, Bronte? Will be interesting... A decent low open will break the channel it's been trading in.



Hi swingstar, & a big welcome to you  
We can not see an open *that* low:


----------



## Bronte

Pager said:
			
		

> I will be looking for a buy tomorrow and think we may open a bit higher, so maybe a good opportunity to grab a few points with a quick trade if we open more than a few points below the night markets close.
> 
> My levels to watch are 4908/9 and 4877/8 which we touched briefly overnight friday.
> 
> If we break 4877 the bear hat goes back on



Interesting post Pager, thanks for your input / levels.
More from us tomorrow.......


----------



## Bronte

95,000 hits
At approx.1000 hits per day
Will we make 100,0000
By the weekend?


----------



## Bronte

We find Mondays are the most unpredictable.
The more time you have / work you do ...
over the weekend, the more confused you can become.
We are still buyers off the Low Open.  
We have some strong levels this morning.


----------



## Bronte

Opened at 4905
+10 points on Sycom Close
A High Open


----------



## Ageo

If the A200 holds above 4924 (gravitation level) then we should see the 4950 to be had.


----------



## Bronte

Pick a Support Level boys


----------



## professor_frink

Anyone here using Interactive Brokers- I'm having all sorts of dramas with their piece of s*** trading platform. The trading platform says that the SPI is unavailable :swear:


----------



## NettAssets

Don't think they are the only one having trouble with data feed = ETrade has been flakey too.


----------



## Ageo

support? well for the A200 its 4896.

A break of that would see the sky fall. Today should be a big day thow, either a big rally up to keep the bulls in with some hope or else the next leg down.

Either way if it does move, ill be on it like a tiger on a antelope.


----------



## professor_frink

NettAssets said:
			
		

> Don't think they are the only one having trouble with data feed = ETrade has been flakey too.




Thanks mate. I'm starting to think it's been a blessing- I would have stopped out this morning on a long so it's not all bad


----------



## Pager

As expected a higher open, but not high enough for a quick short, although we did go to 4903, went long at 4907 as we failed to push any lower and we broke and looked to hold above 4908/9 but alas it was not to be and jumped out as we fell back pretty quickly at 4909, so only + 2 points, having another crack at getting past 4909 so long again with a tight stop.


----------



## Pager

professor_frink said:
			
		

> Anyone here using Interactive Brokers- I'm having all sorts of dramas with their piece of s*** trading platform. The trading platform says that the SPI is unavailable :swear:





No problems here Professor


----------



## professor_frink

Pager said:
			
		

> No problems here Professor




Cheers Pager, must be something wrong at my end


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> We find Mondays are the most unpredictable.
> The more time you have / work you do ...
> over the weekend, the more confused you can become.
> We are still buyers off the Low Open.
> We have some strong levels this morning.



I am still looking to Buy...
Missed the 4900/1 Support Level
Hope to see 4894/5


----------



## Bronte

4915 Intraday Double Top


----------



## Bronte

Realist said:
			
		

> What time does trading open on Monday?
> I'd be thinking long early on Monday myself....



SPI now 4832  +20 Pts
Nice one Realist


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Pick a Support Level boys



Nice to read back and realise that we were all Bullish today.
SPI now 4953


----------



## professor_frink

Ok what just happened-over 800 contracts just went through in the last couple of minutes


----------



## Bronte

That was an elephant


----------



## Bronte

Our Pivot points are not looking good today.
We have found them to be unreliable......
as a stand alone indicator.


----------



## professor_frink

Bronte said:
			
		

> That was an elephant




Sorry bronte. An elephant?


----------



## Ageo

Ageo said:
			
		

> If the A200 holds above 4924 (gravitation level) then we should see the 4950 to be had.





well its now 4957 (surged uptp 4966). So went as planned


----------



## Pager

Well we got through the 4908/9 level eventualy    

Long for the 3rd time, so far only +3 points from trades 1&2, this time long again from 4908, stop is know just just below double intra day tops of 4914/15, will then move up another 10 points shortly but hopefully will know hold to days end.

Also expect to see the discount we are running to the cash market to come in considerably today, maybe even a small premium    .


----------



## nat

yes was a good run at the end ,i didnt handle start to well but ,got whippsawed a lot still held on for my longest run yet for points so happy ,gradually applying things im learning ,thanx for all your imput fellas .Nathan


----------



## Bronte

professor_frink said:
			
		

> Sorry bronte. An elephant?



Commercials - the major players


----------



## Bronte

Very well done lads.
Left me sitting on the platform today.
I had better cancel my Buy 4900 orders


----------



## professor_frink

Bronte said:
			
		

> Commercials - the major players




OK gotcha


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Very well done lads.
> Left me sitting on the platform today.
> I had better cancel my Buy 4900 orders



A very nice mornings work.....for some


----------



## Bronte

SPI now 4977 High


----------



## Pager

Bit of negativity coming out of Hong Kong, futures there are down about 80 points from the open and there cash market is flat, had a huge run of late so maybe just a bit of consolidation, be interesting to see how the Nikkei goes after lunch, still think the discount on the Spi will come in but a premium looks highly unlikely ATM.

Taken some profit on the Spi and have left 1 contract running stop is up to the low 50,s


----------



## Ageo

didnt jump on the way up, lets see if it comes back down to open.


----------



## Ageo

short 20 contracts @ 4974 on the A200.

MA crossover


----------



## Phoenix

Can Somone send me an intraday data file of the SPI for say one year please to FatalError@kaxy.com

Thanks. Or just attach it to your post.


----------



## Bronte

Hi Phoenix, a big welcome to you.
I hope someone helps out with your electronic data.
We have it of course written out by hand & on charts


----------



## Ageo

Stop moved to breakeven.

Im expecting it to move down to about 4950.

Current price is 4963.


----------



## Ageo

Ageo said:
			
		

> Stop moved to breakeven.
> 
> Im expecting it to move down to about 4950.
> 
> Current price is 4963.





Hit 4950 but moved up a tad.

Stop moved to 4964 (locked in a 10 point profit so far).


----------



## Bronte

Nice going Ageo  
We have some real quality traders here.
10 / 12 active members.
1000 hits per day


----------



## swingstar

A200: Sold 10 through breach of support at 4980, sold 10 more through support at 4962, covered all near support (during morning) at 4958.


----------



## Bronte

Todays 5 min SPI chart:


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> 95,000 hits
> At approx.1000 hits per day
> Will we make 100,0000
> By the weekend?



What happens at 100,000 hits Joe ?
I wonder if we go back to zero ?
Suppose we will find out soon


----------



## Ageo

HI guys, i had to leave home and when i got back i found the market decided to rally back up and i got stopped out for a 10 point profit. $200 net

Nothing major but if it hits 5020-30 and then retraces im shorting it.

Hopefully a move down back to the low 4900 levels.


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> What happens at 100,000 hits Joe ?
> I wonder if we go back to zero ?
> Suppose we will find out soon




Why the obsession with the number of hits Bronte?


----------



## Bronte

I just have an obsession with numbers in general Wayne. Fortunately it helps with my trading


----------



## Joe Blow

Bronte said:
			
		

> What happens at 100,000 hits Joe ?




Nothing at all. It will simply continue counting the thread views.


----------



## Bronte

Thank you Joe


----------



## Bronte

Gann taught us to love numbers.
The "Power of Numbers" is simply incredible
For example todays "Round number 4900"


----------



## Pager

Well I missed the close    as I had to take my little one to her Tennis class, but as expected the discount came in to close at only 10 points to the cash.

Good day overall, my last contract stopped out at 4951, but took profit at 4972, entered at 4908 so got to be happy   , have found if you get 60 or more points in a session take some profit or close the position if the market starts to stall or go sideways, also the market usually wont hold it, anyone else have an opinion or comment on this ?.

Cheers

Pager


----------



## neo

What a day.... I was expecting an up move but ended up with only +5 points from near the open. 
It's always dissapointing when you miss a big move  .....its funny, I kick myself   but then remind myself that I did not lose money. I guess thats what trading the SPI is all about.....being consistent,taking a few points every day, the occasional big hit and the occasional small loss.....but at the end of the week making a profit!


----------



## Bronte

Just remind yourself that: *"-over 90 per cent of futures traders lose!"*
Reference 'Trading the SPI' by Brent Penfold page 55

If you look at todays posts 12.02 I called the High 4977
We had 76 point move upwards in the morning session alone.
As Pager so rightly points out this is a big move in one session,
let alone just the morning session.


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Gann taught us to love numbers.
> The "Power of Numbers" is simply incredible
> For example todays "Round number 4900"




Gann is only one of many to realise the power of numbers. BS is also powerful hence the proverb - "Bull541t baffles brains"

e.g. 2 + 2 always = 4.... except when my accountant gets hold of the numbers. He is able to make 2 + 2 = 1.85


----------



## Ageo

Nice work pager, anything above 30 points of profit is a great day of trading.


----------



## Bobby

wayneL said:
			
		

> Gann is only one of many to realise the power of numbers. BS is also powerful hence the proverb - "Bull541t baffles brains"
> 
> e.g. 2 + 2 always = 4.... except when my accountant gets hold of the numbers. He is able to make 2 + 2 = 1.85



 I'm getting SICK of this crap to !!  

Come on real posters , give waynel some back up ! on this .
Crap posts every day wreck a good thread.

Bob.


----------



## Bronte

96,664 views 
Absolutely amazing  
That is over 1600 hits since this morning.


----------



## Bronte

Sycom is certainly creeping up.  
4977 High +16 points since Close.
Let us hope that soon, we can break 
out of this trading channel.


----------



## Bobby

Bronte said:
			
		

> Absolutely amazing !!!




Yep isn't it   

Bob.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Sycom is certainly creeping up.
> 4977 High +16 points since Close.
> Let us hope that soon, we can break
> out of this trading channel.



An amazing twenty one day channel  :


----------



## Bronte

Are we due for an explosive move?


----------



## Freddo

Bronte said:
			
		

> Are we due for an explosive move?




one would *think * so.
 I'm more excited then a kid at Christmas,


----------



## Bronte

We think that the SPI is due for an explosive move Freddo?
You can not help... being excited by the prospect


----------



## wayneL

Not too good are they?


----------



## neo

Looking for further up movement today!
Any thoughts?
I'm looking for a long trade again at/near the open....


----------



## Bronte

Dow +10 overnight
Sycom -7 Points


----------



## Pager

Maybe a day on the sidelines for me, will see how we open at this stage.

After yesterdays drive higher could be a bit choppy today.

"if in doubt stay out"


----------



## Bronte

Wise words Pager  
Plenty of Support around 4944/6
Last nights Sycom Low.


----------



## neo

long trade for me.
entry 4946


----------



## Realist

I'd be thinking of shorting today...

Buy now at 10:00am, sell at 11:30am.

See how I do...


----------



## Ageo

Im just waiting. If it moves back up to around 4970's ill then look for shorts on the A200.


----------



## Pager

Had a quick scalp, bought 4943, sold 4945, looks like the discount is pushing out again, looking a bit bearish and im thinking bullish so will leave things alone.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> *Plenty of Support around 4944/6*
> Last nights Sycom Low.



How are we going?


----------



## Bronte

Pretty good I think


----------



## Ageo

Still waiting, im in no rush - i have 2 other trades on anyway.

Short Gold and Short USDJPY

but lets see what this A200 can provide.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> An amazing twenty one day channel  :



Make that twenty two


----------



## neo

Got out earlier for +5.  
Nice move down since !


----------



## Bronte

Todays morning SPI:


----------



## Pager

See we jumped back up from the 4908/9 area, took 3 attempts to finely break through that area yesterday, should be good support know.

Have only 1 trade today for + 2 points. but long in the Hang Seng as well, working full time cannot always be around when a good move comes along, maybe would have had the break of 39, maybe not as i was more of a bull than bear this moring and a tad uncertain. 

Your support levels were good for a while this morning Bronte    but when they gave way it was downhill all the way, know a probable resistance area.


----------



## Bronte

Pager said:
			
		

> Your support levels were good for a while this morning Bronte    but when they gave way it was downhill all the way, know a probable resistance area.



Thank you Pager.
Never really felt comfortable with todays Support.


----------



## professor_frink

We have what looks like it could be a double bottom at 4905, which is right on the bottom of this big ol' trrend channel. Long at 4906- stop at 4895


----------



## professor_frink

no worries bronte.


----------



## professor_frink

Hang on a minute! Where did your post go


----------



## Bronte

Hehe!   
Sorry professor.
I looked again and could see the D/Bottom 
Didn't mean to burden you.
Thanks anyways


----------



## Bronte

professor_frink said:
			
		

> We have what looks like it could be a double bottom at 4905, which is right on the bottom of this big ol' trrend channel. Long at 4906- stop at 4895



Now 4911 +5 pts


----------



## professor_frink

Out at 4915. God that was a dull move. Like an elephant on Valium!


----------



## Ageo

professor_frink said:
			
		

> Out at 4915. God that was a dull move. Like an elephant on Valium!




nice work Frink, just curious are you scalping or you trading swings? (i.e using trailing stops?)


----------



## Bronte

Well done professor.
$200 per hour


----------



## professor_frink

Ageo said:
			
		

> nice work Frink, just curious are you scalping or you trading swings? (i.e using trailing stops?)




Normally I'm looking for larger swings than the one I just got- took profits too early, but it was moving very slowly, and for some reason my data feed dropped out  so I thought it prudent to bail quickly.


----------



## Bronte

Was that your first SPI trade professor?


----------



## professor_frink

bronte said:
			
		

> Was that your first SPI trade professor?




Not the first- been up and running since last week. Presently only using one monitor, so I don't want to be posting stuff in here whilst I have a trade on(especially in the mornings when it's a bit more volatile).


----------



## Ageo

professor_frink said:
			
		

> Not the first- been up and running since last week. Presently only using one monitor, so I don't want to be posting stuff in here whilst I have a trade on(especially in the mornings when it's a bit more volatile).




thats why you have 2 screens


----------



## professor_frink

Ageo said:
			
		

> thats why you have 2 screens




It's definately on the to do list! Will be going to see the local computer dude when I get back from holidays next month


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> I looked again and could see the D/Bottom
> Didn't mean to burden you.



As soon as I posted requesting a chart, I thought....
Ooops! probably not a good idea, and deleted the post


----------



## Bronte

professor_frink said:
			
		

> We have what looks like it could be a double bottom at 4905, which is right on the bottom of this big ol' trrend channel. Long at 4906- stop at 4895



professors trade:SPI now back to 4915


----------



## nat

once ones had 2 screens one could never go back to just one ,once i saw how easy to set up to i thought why not 4 so another video card with tv out and some second hand monitors ,beutiful, mind you i do wonder some times having more charts up whether it helps or hinders my trading ,Nathan


----------



## Bronte

Not for me  
One Big screen;one computer on my desk
Lots of hand drawn charts though.  
It does make trading and posting difficult.
Although we do have other computers / screens


----------



## Bronte

*Well look at that 3000 posts *


----------



## Bronte

professor_frink said:
			
		

> Out at 4915.



You did well to get out prof.
SPI now 4907
Coming off a Double Top
With the daily trend....down


----------



## professor_frink

Bronte said:
			
		

> You did well to get out prof.
> SPI now 4907
> Coming off a Double Top
> With the daily trend....down




Seemed to be a logical enough point(well for me anyway  ) for profit taking. 4915/16 was one of my pivot levels. I'd post a chart of the trade, but I lost my data feed for awhile, and it won't backfill it for me yet, so it's not accurate  

I'll post it when/if I get the complete data


----------



## Bronte

Thanks.  
4904 going into "Happy half Hour"


----------



## mikeg

Hi Bronte and others,

I am new to this SPI game, and am just starting to learn the charts etc.

I was looking at a 5 minute chart of the XJO and at 11am it started falling and levelled out at 11.30am for about a 20 point fall. The chart you posted also showed a fall, but that did not happen until 11.30am and broke support at 11.55am.

My question is does the XJO often proceed the charts that you use, and could it be a way of getting in early?


----------



## Bronte

Hi mikeg,
Welcome to 'Trading the SPI'
We are surprised to read in your post that there was
such a lag between the two.
All we ever use the XJO for is to see if there is a
Premium or Discount. (+ / - 40 or more)
Please let us know if you discover something.


----------



## Bronte

Todays 5 mins SPI:
(you may have to fill the gaps in)


----------



## Pager

Mikeg,  you are looking at the cash market, the charts posted by Bronte are the futures.

Futures run at a discount or premium to the physical/Cash market (XJO), depending on dividends, time to expiry, sentiment etc.

People use all sorts of methods to trade.

Check out the SFE website it should help with any info, give you information about the Spi and answer your questions  http://www.sfe.com.au/


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Are we due for an explosive move?



I really think that we are


----------



## Bronte

*That's a good start  
DOW + 132.4
SPI + 60*


----------



## professor_frink

morning folks,

I have a weekly pivot @ 4973, and a daily @ 4980, market ended at 4974 o/n. If it opens around this level, I'll be looking for a trade on a break of this area. 

That's providing that the ripping headache I have goes before then(no, I don't have a hangover  ), otherwise, I might just go back to bed


----------



## Ageo

If it opens high, any1 have thoughts of shorts?

4980 on the A200 atm, if it opens upto 4990 or higher it might be worth a look.

I have to head out @ 10:15 anyway so i most likely wont place any trades.


----------



## nat

morning all ,i am thinking it will open high then go down til in synch with cash then rally ?Nat


----------



## Pager

Quick scalp for me so far, sold 86, bought 82 so + 4, but looking for a long, see how support at 77/80 holds,


----------



## Ageo

Short 20 contracts  4999 on the A200.

i have to leave soon, but lets see how it pans out.


----------



## neo

support broken past 4977
Could be a good down move. I'm short at 4976


----------



## Pager

looking for the long if we get past 4980, so buying the low 80,s on stop with a tight stop, will exit EOD or at + 60 .

Expecting the discount to the cash to come in again today, if a good discount is still there late in the day, im long   .

back to work for me


----------



## Ageo

stop moved to breakeven.


----------



## neo

Exit 4967.  ....+9pts
XJO is way up.


----------



## Poor_Grenville

*Question for Bronte*

Hi Bronte, do you have the live charting of
FutureSource for your charts? I'm assuming
that you do since you take screenshots of it
so much


----------



## professor_frink

Well folks I took the morning off and had a kindy nap- really wish I didn't! Although given the way my head was pounding, I probably would have bought the open instead of selling it!

We had a gap opening just above R2, and a sell signal on the second bar. And no profit for me


----------



## Poor_Grenville

professor_frink said:
			
		

> Well folks I took the morning off and had a kindy nap- really wish I didn't! Although given the way my head was pounding, I probably would have bought the open instead of selling it!
> 
> We had a gap opening just above R2, and a sell signal on the second bar. And no profit for me




Hey Frinky, it's always better to be on the sidelines when you
are not yourself 100%! 

Oh, what charting software are you using?


----------



## professor_frink

Poor_Grenville said:
			
		

> Hey Frinky, it's always better to be on the sidelines when you
> are not yourself 100%!
> 
> Oh, what charting software are you using?




Most definately Poor Grenville. I've only just started trading as well, so I want to be feeling good before I place a trade.

That lovely chart is done by Amibroker.


----------



## Ageo

Just got back,

Stop moved to 4979 (locked in 20 points so far).

If it moves 3 points down ill move the stop to 4969 and lock in 30 points.

Targets are to gravitation levels 4959 (which is now) but it could move further.


----------



## Ageo

Just moved stop again to lock in 30 points @ 4969.

Lets see if it moves further


----------



## Poor_Grenville

professor_frink said:
			
		

> Most definately Poor Grenville. I've only just started trading as well, so I want to be feeling good before I place a trade.
> 
> That lovely chart is done by Amibroker.




Thanks Frinky!

 I've never tried AmiBroker... always used Wealth-Lab.   

But I think I'll give AmiBroker a go tho


----------



## professor_frink

Poor_Grenville said:
			
		

> Thanks Frinky!
> 
> I've never tried AmiBroker... always used Wealth-Lab.
> 
> But I think I'll give AmiBroker a go tho




It's worth looking at. Cheap too  


Might go have some  and come back after 2pm to see if we get any action


----------



## Ageo

professor_frink said:
			
		

> It's worth looking at. Cheap too
> 
> 
> Might go have some  and come back after 2pm to see if we get any action




If it doesnt keep falling we might see a afternoon rally.


----------



## professor_frink

Ageo said:
			
		

> If it doesnt keep falling we might see a afternoon rally.




Definately a possiblility. Will be back later for a look.

Well done on the short this morning mate


----------



## Ageo

professor_frink said:
			
		

> Definately a possiblility. Will be back later for a look.
> 
> Well done on the short this morning mate




thanks


----------



## Bobby

Like to hear some comments on the advantages & disadvantages of trading the SPI as against the XJO200 using CFDs.

Iv'e being asked this question & don't have a the depth of knowledge to answer such.   
Whats your advice regarding the better choise,  for someone who has just traded stocks .

Thanks Bob.


----------



## professor_frink

Bobby said:
			
		

> Like to hear some comments on the advantages & disadvantages of trading the SPI as against the XJO200 using CFDs.
> 
> Iv'e being asked this question & don't have a the depth of knowledge to answer such.
> Whats your advice regarding the better choise,  for someone who has just traded stocks .
> 
> Thanks Bob.





I looked at both before choosing futures over cfd's.

Futures are a "real" market, as opposed to trading against the cfd provider(I didn't trust the cfd providers to play fair all the time).

For daytrading the spread was a concern as well. Futures are usually 1 point, meaning if I buy the offer, it will cost me $35 after brokerage, the equivalent spread in cfd's is(I think) 3 points or $75.

Hope that helps a bit.


----------



## Bobby

professor_frink said:
			
		

> I looked at both before choosing futures over cfd's.
> 
> Futures are a "real" market, as opposed to trading against the cfd provider(I didn't trust the cfd providers to play fair all the time).
> 
> For daytrading the spread was a concern as well. Futures are usually 1 point, meaning if I buy the offer, it will cost me $35 after brokerage, the equivalent spread in cfd's is(I think) 3 points or $75.
> 
> Hope that helps a bit.



 Thanks Professor'

Yep I understand your concerns with some CFD providers, the MM type !
Do like the fact you can get a GSL & DMA with some providers , not sure about the spread with them  ?

Cheers Bob.


----------



## professor_frink

Bobby said:
			
		

> Thanks Professor'
> 
> Yep I understand your concerns with some CFD providers, the MM type !
> Do like the fact you can get a GSL & DMA with some providers , not sure about the spread with them  ?
> 
> Cheers Bob.




Bob, when your talking about index cfd's, I think every provider is MM. For share CFD's there is no way I'd sign up with any provider that didn't have DMA, GSL's and segregated accounts.


----------



## Ageo

Well so far i have had no probs.

A200 (index simliar to the SPI) on CFD's are a 2 point spread (In hours and 4 points after hours). No commissions so for me its fantastic.

Also you can trade 1 contract (which = $1 per point) as a minimum which is great for learning.

Anywayz just to update the trade i got stopped out for 4969 so i made 30 points ($600).

Not bad for the day, lets see how tomorrow goes.


----------



## professor_frink

Ageo said:
			
		

> Well so far i have had no probs.
> 
> A200 (index simliar to the SPI) on CFD's are a 2 point spread (In hours and 4 points after hours). No commissions so for me its fantastic.
> 
> Also you can trade 1 contract (which = $1 per point) as a minimum which is great for learning.
> 
> Anywayz just to update the trade i got stopped out for 4969 so i made 30 points ($600).
> 
> Not bad for the day, lets see how tomorrow goes.




Ageo, that extra point on the spread is the same as paying $25 brokerage each way on a futures contract. I pay $5 a side. Over time that will add up to alot of money!

You seem to have a pretty good grasp on trading the index. Have you thought of opening a futures a/c?


----------



## Ageo

professor_frink said:
			
		

> Ageo, that extra point on the spread is the same as paying $25 brokerage each way on a futures contract. I pay $5 a side. Over time that will add up to alot of money!
> 
> You seem to have a pretty good grasp on trading the index. Have you thought of opening a futures a/c?




Frinks with CFD's it allows me to trade shares aswell as commodoties, indicies and FX etc..

So its suits my style. DMA will soon come out and im sure the spread will decrease over time (perhaps to 1 point). So im happy with it, and i dont like trading 2 platforms (i.e 1 for shares and the other for index's etc..) it just throws me out of balance.

Might sound crazy but for the time being the extra point does no harm. I dont scalp anymore for that reason but for swings (10 point+ moves) it doesnt effect me.


----------



## professor_frink

Ageo said:
			
		

> Frinks with CFD's it allows me to trade shares aswell as commodoties, indicies and FX etc..
> 
> So its suits my style. DMA will soon come out and im sure the spread will decrease over time (perhaps to 1 point). So im happy with it, and i dont like trading 2 platforms (i.e 1 for shares and the other for index's etc..) it just throws me out of balance.
> 
> Might sound crazy but for the time being the extra point does no harm. I dont scalp anymore for that reason but for swings (10 point+ moves) it doesnt effect me.




Fair enough mate.


----------



## Pager

Well the discount looked like it would come in, so I went long at 4928 after it dipped and bounced of 4923 then it went backwards after stalling at 4934 !!!!, so jumped out at 4930 for + 2 points, then it decided to turn around again and headed higher, made a high of 4942 before closing at 4939, but I missed it at the second opportunity   .

Oh well, made 6 points today from 2 trades


----------



## Bronte

Todays 5 min SPI chart:


----------



## Bronte

*Re: Question for Bronte*



			
				Poor_Grenville said:
			
		

> Hi Bronte, do you have the live charting of
> FutureSource for your charts? I'm assuming
> that you do since you take screenshots of it
> so much



No P_G,
I just find them easier to post


----------



## Bronte

Somewhere on this long thread....
I have mentioned that we use Market Analyser Pro.
We do an awful lot of hand charting.
We have PocketWatch pagers   
& a couple of trading platforms.


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Somewhere on this long thread....
> I have mentioned that we use Market Analyser Pro.
> We do an awful lot of hand charting.
> We have PocketWatch pagers
> & a couple of trading platforms.




We?


----------



## Bobby

Ageo said:
			
		

> Frinks with CFD's it allows me to trade shares aswell as commodoties, indicies and FX etc..
> 
> So its suits my style. DMA will soon come out and im sure the spread will decrease over time (perhaps to 1 point). So im happy with it, and i dont like trading 2 platforms (i.e 1 for shares and the other for index's etc..) it just throws me out of balance.
> 
> Might sound crazy but for the time being the extra point does no harm. I dont scalp anymore for that reason but for swings (10 point+ moves) it doesnt effect me.



Hello Ageo, 

You seem to be doing OK trading the XJO200,    would you care to recommend your CFD provider & their cost structure please?

Bob.


----------



## Bobby

wayneL said:
			
		

> We?



 

On another note Congratulations on your next post being your 2500 ! fantastic effort   

regards Bob.


----------



## Bronte

Congratulations Wayne


----------



## brisvegas

Bronte said:
			
		

> Somewhere on this long thread....
> I have mentioned that we use Market Analyser Pro.
> We do an awful lot of hand charting.
> We have PocketWatch pagers
> & a couple of trading platforms.




Market Analyser just as easy to post and much more informative than free to air futuresource delayed so why not give us an insight to your software



.................. bris


----------



## Bronte

brisvegas said:
			
		

> Market Analyser just as easy to post and much more informative than free to air futuresource delayed so why not give us an insight to your software
> .................. bris



Hi bris, I thought you said we wouldn't hear from you again!!!!
We like to use a black background...and the file becomes to big to post...
This one I have changed to white.......... DoH! :homer:     Still too large!


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Hi bris, I thought you said we wouldn't hear from you again!!!!
> We like to use a black background...and the file becomes to big to post...
> This one I have changed to white.......... DoH! :homer:     Still too large!



Try again..


----------



## Bronte

brisvegas said:
			
		

> certainly have to agree there , from what ive seen i am the only one to post a trade real time and as ive read back it has been analized to death with what seems to be ego driven comments since with one poster repeatedly talking to themselves . its not that im not brave enough to post anymore realtime trades . its more like i fail to see any point trying to justify myself to a hindsite trader who apparently never has a loser . this trader seems more interested in feeding ego than posting real time trades with entires , targets and stops *before the fact* . i cant compete with fantasy and have no intention of trying to . i was going to start posting trades so as to demonstrate my simple and unambiguous methodology , but alas i cant be bothered wasting my breathe feeding this hindsite gann wonder . god forbid the trash i would have to put up with if i had 2 losers in a row which does happen for what its worth . *my last post on this waste of time thread*
> 
> .................. cheers pete
> 
> ps please dont bother replying to this post as no correspondence will be forthcoming



Mmmm! Shame on you bris


----------



## wayneL

Bobby said:
			
		

> On another note Congratulations on your next post being your 2500 ! fantastic effort
> 
> regards Bob.




Hah! Now I have to post something totally gratuitious to get me over the line... hmmmmmm to0 have racked up 2,500 they were probably mostly gratuitious :  

On black backgrounds... I don't have a problem posting them. Maybe you are saving in the wrong format. Try gif or png. 

Cheers


----------



## Pager

How many here are full time traders?, or part timers so to speak like me, just curious   .

I’m a 1 or 2 lot trader as I work full time and im comfortable with that level, tried 5 but it affected my real job to much and also I didn’t do as well (not sure why, maybe made me too nervous and jumpy).

I trade through IB so my brokerage is only $5 per contract, my goal is to net 40 points ($1000) a week, most weeks iam there abouts, every so often we get a day like Monday were I picked up a combined 110 points with 2 contracts and 3 trades, but most days I ground out 4 to 12 points with 2 or 3 trades, usually in the first 20 mins of trade or the last 20, if we get a runner which is what im always looking and hoping for as we did Monday morning I try and ride it until it looks exhausted or stalls then cover 1 contract and place a closer stop on the other, the longer im in a trade the more room and time I give it to kick on.

I also trade mechanical systems through a full service broker


----------



## Bronte

Thanks Pager...very interesting.  

I do not claim to be a computer expert.


----------



## wayneL

Archivist saves and squirrels away each and every discussion forum message. Do you remember having a bad day back in 1996 when in one of your messages you may have said a few things that were...well, perhaps a little...hasty? Don't worry, Archivist still has it and will post it to the forum if you begin to get the upper hand in battle.


----------



## Bronte

Thank you Wayne.......  
I expected a lot worse.


----------



## Pager

Should add for anyone new to the Spi, the first 2 years I traded i lost money each year, but 1 contract and a tight stop, didn’t do too much damage to the bank account and came close to giving it up on more than 1 occasion   .


----------



## wayneL

Pager said:
			
		

> Should add for anyone new to the Spi, the first 2 years I traded i lost money each year, but 1 contract and a tight stop, didn’t do too much damage to the bank account and came close to giving it up on more than 1 occasion   .




Congratulations Pager, you've survived the Bermuda triangle.  

(actually it's a great contract to trade these days)


----------



## brisvegas

Bronte said:
			
		

> Hi bris, I thought you said we wouldn't hear from you again!!!!
> We like to use a black background...and the file becomes to big to post...
> This one I have changed to white.......... DoH! :homer:     Still too large!





Ive posted many MA charts on many forums and it has been SO EASY . have a look back at my posts and there are quite a few


............ bris


----------



## Bobby

wayneL said:
			
		

> Hah! Now I have to post something totally gratuitious to get me over the line... hmmmmmm to0 have racked up 2,500 they were probably mostly gratuitious :
> 
> On black backgrounds... I don't have a problem posting them. Maybe you are saving in the wrong format. Try gif or png.
> 
> Cheers



 Wayne thats dark stuff ! but got it ,  do the  rabbits s**t  in their own nests :sheep:   : 

Bob..


----------



## brisvegas

brisvegas said:
			
		

> Ive posted many MA charts on many forums and it has been SO EASY . have a look back at my posts and there are quite a few
> 
> 
> ............ bris




such as 

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1716


https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1717


https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1506

So Whats Wrong With YOU


----------



## wayneL

Bobby said:
			
		

> Wayne thats dark stuff ! but got it ,  do the  rabbits s**t  in their own nests :sheep:   :
> 
> Bob..




I don't know Bob, just a bit of self deprecating humour, but I should learn to spell *gratuitous* hey


----------



## Bobby

wayneL said:
			
		

> I don't know Bob, just a bit of self deprecating humour, but I should learn to spell *gratuitous* hey



 Wayne I missed the spelling   , but should have left out the ( do ) !! 
Nothing wrong with your humour   

Have fun 
Bob.


----------



## Bobby

Bobby said:
			
		

> Wayne I missed the spelling   , but should have left out the ( do ) !!
> Nothing wrong with your humour
> 
> Have fun
> Bob.



 Whoops the  (do ) was in my reply .


----------



## bingk6

Pager said:
			
		

> I trade through IB so my brokerage is only $5 per contract, my goal is to net 40 points ($1000) a week, most weeks iam there abouts, every so often we get a day like Monday were I picked up a combined 110 points with 2 contracts and 3 trades, but most days I ground out 4 to 12 points with 2 or 3 trades, usually in the first 20 mins of trade or the last 20, if we get a runner which is what im always looking and hoping for as we did Monday morning I try and ride it until it looks exhausted or stalls then cover 1 contract and place a closer stop on the other, the longer im in a trade the more room and time I give it to kick on.




Hey Pager,

Not a bad return for an hours work each day. I am assuming that the brokerage from IB is $5 per contract per trade. Is that brokerage fee the most competitive that you have found ? Do they provide intra-day charts and how do they compare with other futures brokers ?

Secondly, good to hear that you are still trading despite first 2 years of losses. What is it that you are doing differently today to those first 2 years ? I am considering trading the SPI and would appreciate any advice (outside of following the outstanding advice in this particular thread - off course)


----------



## Freddo

Pager said:
			
		

> How many here are full time traders?, or part timers so to speak like me, just curious   .
> 
> I’m a 1 or 2 lot trader as I work full time and im comfortable with that level, tried 5 but it affected my real job to much and also I didn’t do as well (not sure why, maybe made me too nervous and jumpy).
> 
> I trade through IB so my brokerage is only $5 per contract, my goal is to net 40 points ($1000) a week, most weeks iam there abouts, every so often we get a day like Monday were I picked up a combined 110 points with 2 contracts and 3 trades, but most days I ground out 4 to 12 points with 2 or 3 trades, usually in the first 20 mins of trade or the last 20, if we get a runner which is what im always looking and hoping for as we did Monday morning I try and ride it until it looks exhausted or stalls then cover 1 contract and place a closer stop on the other, the longer im in a trade the more room and time I give it to kick on.
> 
> I also trade mechanical systems through a full service broker




Pager, 
My trading life is almost exactly as you describe.

I haven't posted much here lately, I find it too hard to trade, work a day job
and post intradday trades live here.

I am really enjoying this channel we are in, no good for EOD trading (well for me anyway) but intraday as been brilliant.

Will post trades when I get an EOD signal

Regards
Freddo

PS.... 
Quick comment on recent discussion, 
Pivot points rock!
but like anything it's how you use them... and I'm not telling


----------



## Ageo

Bobby said:
			
		

> Hello Ageo,
> 
> You seem to be doing OK trading the XJO200,    would you care to recommend your CFD provider & their cost structure please?
> 
> Bob.





Hi Bobby,

im with CMC and there spreads for the A200 are 2 pips (no commissions thow).

Eventually they will introduce DMA.

So far so good for me.


----------



## Bobby

Ageo said:
			
		

> Hi Bobby,
> 
> im with CMC and there spreads for the A200 are 2 pips (no commissions thow).
> 
> Eventually they will introduce DMA.
> 
> So far so good for me.



 Thank you Ageo for your reply, when a provider offers DMA I'll start playing   

Keep the posts up & thanks .
Bob.


----------



## wayneL

Ageo said:
			
		

> Hi Bobby,
> 
> im with CMC and there spreads for the A200 are 2 pips (no commissions thow).
> 
> Eventually they will introduce DMA.
> 
> So far so good for me.




How will they do DMA with the Oz200 ageo ?

They will have to match the futures precisely I would have thought... including the contract sizes?


----------



## Ageo

wayneL said:
			
		

> How will they do DMA with the Oz200 ageo ?
> 
> They will have to match the futures precisely I would have thought... including the contract sizes?





Wayne to be honest im not sure but thats what they guy said to me. (IG im pretty sure do DMA on the A200).

Anywayz not sure when it will be out thow


----------



## Pager

bingk6 said:
			
		

> Hey Pager,
> 
> Not a bad return for an hours work each day. I am assuming that the brokerage from IB is $5 per contract per trade. Is that brokerage fee the most competitive that you have found ? Do they provide intra-day charts and how do they compare with other futures brokers ?
> 
> Secondly, good to hear that you are still trading despite first 2 years of losses. What is it that you are doing differently today to those first 2 years ? I am considering trading the SPI and would appreciate any advice (outside of following the outstanding advice in this particular thread - off course)




Most Aussie brokers are far more competative these days, IB trading platform and data is free for the Spi and a few other markets, nominal fee for most others, just open an account, fees for the Spi are $5 per side.

Think the major difference to what i do compared to when i started is not to try to buy a faling market or sell a rising one, also dont live on hope if a trade goes the wrong way, i get out, also you need a plan, were to buy/sell, were to exit, were is the stop etc, think in hindsight i would make a trade then think know what should i do.

I also identify areas of support or resistance (to me anyway), also use Pivot levels from various time frames.

Sorry no time to spell check   , got to run thin morning, good luck to all who are trading today. 

Anyway no trading today as im on a course


----------



## Bronte

Another good night  
Dow +97 points
SPI +43 points


----------



## Ageo

perhaps another high open and then short from there?


----------



## Ageo

Short 20 contracts @ 5004 on the A200

Stop is 5014


----------



## Ageo

Stopped out 10 point loss ($200)

Re-entered 5016 short 20 contracts, stop 20 points above


----------



## Ageo

Ageo said:
			
		

> Stopped out 10 point loss ($200)
> 
> Re-entered 5016 short 20 contracts, stop 20 points above





the reason why i placed the stop 20 points above this time is because my stop is sitting on 5036 and the 1st major Support level is 5020 (to avoid stop hunts). And also my target to finish up today is around 5020 but we should see a short sell off  before it moves back up (but who knows).


----------



## Ageo

Ok stop moved to 5006 (so breakeven after the 10 point loss on the previous trade).

Now i will leave it upto the market, if it moves further down then i take a profit if it rally's backup i breakeven for the day.

Crap i know but better than losing money.

If i close the trade now and take a 5 point profit i risk losing a "potential move down" that could happen. 

anywayz enough chatter for now


----------



## Bronte

Todays SPI Open:


----------



## Bronte

Market Analyser Pro Daily:


----------



## Ageo

Stopped out again for breakeven.

Market a tad to wild for my liking, ill be finished for the day most likely.


----------



## nat

morning all ,just a question to who ever ,i c that the futures is struggling to get past 5000 mark but the cash has past it ,is there some thing there to take from that ,does it mean peoplle arent convinced getting and passin 5000 today isnt feasible .
On my chart its up against weekly pivot point res so wont want to go past that to much a guess Nathan


----------



## professor_frink

Bronte said:
			
		

> Our Pivot points are not looking good today.
> We have found them to be unreliable......
> as a stand alone indicator.




Chalk another one up for the mighty pivots


----------



## professor_frink

nat said:
			
		

> morning all ,just a question to who ever ,i c that the futures is struggling to get past 5000 mark but the cash has past it ,is there some thing there to take from that ,does it mean peoplle arent convinced getting and passin 5000 today isnt feasible .
> On my chart its up against weekly pivot point res so wont want to go past that to much a guess Nathan





Nat, 
If you have a look at the chart I just posted, the white line on the chart is the top end of the trend channel we've been trading in recently(I've posted hourly charts previously that will show you it). That might explain why the futures market was struggling to get through it this morning.


----------



## nat

ok thanx ,i suppose futures in some ways is its own idendity ,where is the cash is made up of weighting of top 200,althou top 20 prob influence xjo the most .Nathan


----------



## Bronte

professor_frink said:
			
		

> Chalk another one up for the mighty pivots



Yes professor R1 4976 worked very well today  
It would have been a very brave / profitable Buy.


----------



## professor_frink

Bronte said:
			
		

> Yes professor R1 4976 worked very well today
> It would have been a very brave / profitable Buy.




why is that bronte?


----------



## Bronte

We closed yesterday at 4938
A 4978 Open was already a 40 point move.
The Dow was only up 96.9 points.

We have been bullish since Monday close,
expecting an explosive move.  

I assume you didn't buy the Pivot point either prof?


----------



## professor_frink

Bronte said:
			
		

> We closed yesterday at 4938
> A 4978 Open was already a 40 point move.
> The Dow was only up 96.9 points.
> 
> We have been bullish since Monday close,
> expecting an explosive move.
> 
> I assume you didn't buy the Pivot point either prof?





I'm not making any representations about what I did/didn't trade today! Didn't call it live so I won't try and claim anything  

If you've been bullish since monday, why would you consider buying this morning a brave buy?


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> We closed yesterday at 4938
> A 4978 Open was already a 40 point move.
> The Dow was only up 96.9 points.
> 
> We have been bullish since Monday close,
> expecting an explosive move.
> 
> I assume you didn't buy the Pivot point either prof?



A 40 point move is well above the average 'True Range' for the SPI

They want to Close the 'Gap'....


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> We think that the SPI is due for an explosive move Freddo?
> You can not help... being excited by the prospect



5038 will close the Gap


----------



## nat

im  a little confused ,how does 5038 close the gap we havent been at that for weeks Nathan


----------



## GreatPig

If you look on Bronte's chart a few messages up you'll see a bar in early July dipping a fraction below 5040, presumably to 5038. A week odd later it gapped down into the recent trading range. That's the gap under consideration.

Cheers,
GP


----------



## spitrader1

professor_frink said:
			
		

> I'm not making any representations about what I did/didn't trade today! Didn't call it live so I won't try and claim anything
> 
> If you've been bullish since monday, why would you consider buying this morning a brave buy?




because professor you see, bronte is the best hind sight trader there is. if you read the persons posts, and i have been, they are always bullish on up days and bearish on down days. but never do he/she give a real time opinion trade. they post there ideas after the market has moved, and yeah sure, some of there posts are correct in buying of support levels etc, but the graphs are only ever posted after the fact, and no trading positions are given when taken. questions like urs will be answered somewhere along the lines of " i only ever buy when my system gann cash resistance level futures open dow curve fit elliot wave supercalofrajiclistic system tells me to". Some people buy into this caper as intelligence, but alas, I am not one of them. I have been in the market for 15 years 10 as a professional and i still do not understand some of the persons posts. And ive only just realised why, because they DO NOT make sense...


----------



## Bronte

Absolutely...Thanks GP


----------



## nat

oh ok thanx for that ,a lot clearer now ,i thought his later post was talking about the gap from open today ,then i was wondering how the last post fitted into that.


----------



## Poor_Grenville

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> because professor you see, bronte is the best hind sight trader there is. if you read the persons posts, and i have been, they are always bullish on up days and bearish on down days. but never do he/she give a real time opinion trade. they post there ideas after the market has moved, and yeah sure, some of there posts are correct in buying of support levels etc, but the graphs are only ever posted after the fact, and no trading positions are given when taken. questions like urs will be answered somewhere along the lines of " i only ever buy when my system gann cash resistance level futures open dow curve fit elliot wave supercalofrajiclistic system tells me to". Some people buy into this caper as intelligence, but alas, I am not one of them. I have been in the market for 15 years 10 as a professional and i still do not understand some of the persons posts. And ive only just realised why, because they DO NOT make sense...




Interesting observations... hmmm... lots to think about


----------



## Bronte

Always keep an eye on the 'Big Pictures' nat


----------



## spitrader1

Poor_Grenville said:
			
		

> Interesting observations... hmmm... lots to think about



just so i can be opne and frank as well, i dont want to be a hipocrite you see, i will post my trades every day what i do and when i do them...i have done this in the past in the chat rooms but no one seems to go there any more.


----------



## Bronte

The 'Gap" didn't close.
5033 High....followed by a big 'Sell off'
I will post a chart soon


----------



## Poor_Grenville

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> just so i can be opne and frank as well, i dont want to be a hipocrite you see, i will post my trades every day what i do and when i do them...i have done this in the past in the chat rooms but no one seems to go there any more.




Oh? I would love to chat with SPI traders! Hope to see you in there tomorrow


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> A 40 point move is well above the average 'True Range' for the SPI
> They want to Close the 'Gap'....



04.00PM post
We only had a 5023 High at this stage....
Before 'Happy hour'  
See chart...next page:


----------



## nat

count me in im keen to observe and learn, Nat


----------



## spitrader1

nat said:
			
		

> count me in im keen to observe and learn, Nat



not saying you will learn off me but i will give reasons and give live trades as i see fit for my account. just so everyone knows (as ive said before) i trade index arb...ie, the cash market against the futures market.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> 04.00PM post
> We only had a 5023 High at this stage....
> Before 'Happy hour'
> See chart...



Today 5 min SPI chart:


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> They want to Close the 'Gap'....



As you can see it was a good call


----------



## neo

Heres a question from left field.
Does anyone here NOT use charts to trade?
I generally trade only the open. 
I average about 30 points a week profit.
I DO NOT use charts for trade entries but use an intraday tick chart to manage my exits.
I have noticed that as I started to listen more about pivot points,support and resistance etc my trading suffered. I started to doubt my plan due to TA reasons and then I subsequently missed opportunities that I would have otherwise taken.


----------



## Bronte

CONGRATULATIONS Neo   
You are in the 10% club.
My suggestion is to log on here only *after * you have traded.
As your account grows aim to trade more and more  contracts.
Buy lots of 'Assets'   

My aim here was never to 'Trade live' just to show that 
Gann is a system that works very well for us.
Also a place to discuss: 'Trading the SPI'


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> My aim here was never to 'Trade live' just to show that
> Gann is a system that works very well for us.
> Also a place to discuss: 'Trading the SPI'



*I think we succeeded   
Over 100,000 Views
Over 70 contributers
Over 3100 Replies*


----------



## wayneL

professor_frink said:
			
		

> Chalk another one up for the mighty pivots




Simple, easy to calculate, unambiguous, and effective.

Cheers


----------



## wayneL

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> i trade index arb...ie, the cash market against the futures market.




That's piqued my interest.

spi, how do you trade the cash?


----------



## wayneL

Here is the deal.

Rednose is unbanned, but I am not convinced.

I am going to clean some of the rubbish out of this thread.

It will get back to trading the SPI

discussion will centre around technique and/or live trades.

Hindsite trades are a serious bone of contention and will be deleted. But pointing that the market bounced off such and such a level is fine.

Any questions?


----------



## Bronte

Thank you


----------



## Bronte

We should meet Wayne


----------



## Bronte

My loving father died last October
I went to England to see him..just before


----------



## onemore

professor_frink said:
			
		

> succeeded? So you showed the world that you trade gann very well
> 
> I for one am converted! Where is my gann square wheel thingy? I've got to get to work
> 
> Man I'd really hate to see what kind of state this thread would be in if you failed.
> 
> 100,000 people viewing a train wreck.
> 70 people taking time out of their trading to have a go at you.
> 3100 replies- about 200 of them about trading, 1000 arguing, and 1900 self congratulatory posts.





I asked Bront/man  some advice once on the settings ect of the Gann square wheel  .    *No Help*  I was just labelled the one button pilot.  

Prof  I loved your above post   

cheers


----------



## Bronte

You are VERY wrong this time


----------



## professor_frink

onemore said:
			
		

> I asked Bront/man  some advice once on the settings ect of the Gann square wheel  .    *No Help*  I was just labelled the one button pilot.
> 
> Prof  I loved your above post
> 
> cheers




One button pilot. Love it


----------



## wayneL

Someone post a chart ferchrissake


----------



## professor_frink

wayneL said:
			
		

> Someone post a chart ferchrissake




Here's one of my fav's- Dow in 29'


----------



## Bronte

You have done well Wayne. 
The ARCHIVIST has it all on file.


----------



## Ageo

Wayne do you mind if the CFD traders post about the A200 on this thread? i know it might confuse others but at least the action is in 1 thread?


----------



## wayneL

Ageo said:
			
		

> Wayne do you mind if the CFD traders post about the A200 on this thread? i know it might confuse others but at least the action is in 1 thread?




Ageo

Of course you can, the oz200 is still the same underlying. Even other indicies if it  helps show a process or method.

It's really just hindsite trades (of which I have been guilty of too  ) which gets people uptight.

e.g. bought @ 4900 when the index has already  run 5 points. A bit of delay is natural because of the time it take to post.

With so many following this thread, I just want to make sure people post with integrity.

Cheers


----------



## Ageo

wayneL said:
			
		

> Ageo
> 
> .
> 
> e.g. bought @ 4900 when the index has already  run 5 points. A bit of delay is natural because of the time it take to post.
> 
> With so many following this thread, I just want to make sure people post with integrity.
> 
> Cheers




Sorry about that mate, I try to post as fast as possible but sometimes its just not possible as it takes a couple of minutes (then of course sometimes more if the server is slow).

Im posting more for recreation then anything else (just to add an opinion) but in no way is it meant for boasting (not that there is anything to boast hehe).

anywayz ill try my best to keep it clean and simple.


----------



## professor_frink

Well it should be an interesting day today folks. 

o/n the spi closed at 5009-down slightly.
Dow flat.
Todays pivot is at 5009,S1 at 4985, and R1 at 5044. The upper end of the trend channel that we broke out of yesterday is around 5000.

Probably won't be looking for shorts below the pivot-Will wait to see if the trend channel holds the price up.

May look for a buy if it opens down and moves up through the pivot. Having said that, I don't really have a strong opinion about today. May end up on the sidelines


----------



## Ageo

today ill be looking for shorts on a higher open or early move up.

will keep you's posted


----------



## Sensei

A very lively forum of late ... good to see the discussion of varied views.  Great posts by Magdoran, WayneL, the Prof ...and excuse all those I haven't mentined.

Today my bias is to take a short position .... will watch for possibility into early the 20's .... but then again watch for a continuation pattern if volume is strong.


----------



## Ageo

short 20 contracts @ 5045 on the A200 that is

stops placed 20 points above.


----------



## Ageo

stop moved to 5045 (breakeven).


----------



## Ageo

moved stop back to 5065 to give it some room to breath.

R1 level is 5053.

ill move the stop back to breakeven if it decides to move down and settle


----------



## Pager

Missed the boat today, using IB,s Webtrader and either that or my PC had a fit just before 9-40   , by the time I had got it sorted and rebooted the market was well open and im out of tune with movements   .

Anyone else have problems with IB this morning, although thinking it was my PC  

Until the close ?


----------



## professor_frink

Pager said:
			
		

> Missed the boat today, using IB,s Webtrader and either that or my PC had a fit just before 9-40   , by the time I had got it sorted and rebooted the market was well open and im out of tune with movements   .
> 
> Anyone else have problems with IB this morning, although thinking it was my PC
> 
> Until the close ?




All fine over here Pager. I'm not using the webtrader though.


----------



## professor_frink

Not going to trade today- I'm finding too many reasons not to put a trade on near the pivot level, meaning very wide stops if I enter, so I'm gunna sit this one out. Good luck today everyone


----------



## Ageo

professor_frink said:
			
		

> Not going to trade today- I'm finding too many reasons not to put a trade on near the pivot level, meaning very wide stops if I enter, so I'm gunna sit this one out. Good luck today everyone




when i place support/resistance trades i always have a wider stop (20 points) simply because a day like today there can be extra volatility (on the 5min candle bars im seeing over 10 point moves!).

but for breakouts and EMA crossover a standard 10 point stop is enough for me.

Anywayz i have targets for it to hit the 4990 level or so. Currently its @ 5035


----------



## professor_frink

Ageo said:
			
		

> when i place support/resistance trades i always have a wider stop (20 points) simply because a day like today there can be extra volatility (on the 5min candle bars im seeing over 10 point moves!).
> 
> but for breakouts and EMA crossover a standard 10 point stop is enough for me.
> 
> Anywayz i have targets for it to hit the 4990 level or so. Currently its @ 5035




Yeah she's a bit choppy at the moment. It's sunny outside, it's friday, I'm going to go outside for a change!

Gotta go work on my tan a bit- I'm off to Fiji at the end of next week and I'm currently so white that I glow in the dark  

Have a good weekend all


----------



## Ageo

professor_frink said:
			
		

> Yeah she's a bit choppy at the moment. It's sunny outside, it's friday, I'm going to go outside for a change!
> 
> Gotta go work on my tan a bit- I'm off to Fiji at the end of next week and I'm currently so white that I glow in the dark
> 
> Have a good weekend all





lol if thats the case then enjoy mate! 

and yes outside is beautiful,


----------



## Ageo

Update on trade, stop moved to breakeven. (5045)

Market has held up more than expected, not sure if its gonna let go but we can only go with the flow


----------



## Ageo

Sorta hovering around the 5020-30 atm, should be interesting to see how the afternoon pans out.

Hopefully further down 

Anywayz just moved my stop to lock in a 10 point profit @ 5035.


----------



## Ageo

Anyone else trading today?

well anywayz i might get stopped out soon but this market has been ranging from 5020-30 from about 11am today. Boring!

$200 is locked in so im happy with that if thats all that eventuates.

As my experience grows i will increase my contract sizes.


----------



## porkpie324

yes, i took 5 pos at 1417 5026. 5 @1418 5029. 5@1420 5029, thats all 2day, porkpie


----------



## neo

Hi people,
Today was a good day to trade the open.
Good long trade possible from just after the bell.
DJIA and S&P were up (slightly) yet sycom was oversold. 
The SPI was already at a reasonable discount to the cash.
Any opinions on this?  
( I traded this today for +13 pts.... out by 10:10  )


----------



## Ageo

any thoughts on this mornings open?

A200 currently @ 5065, my target is 5100.

R1 level is 5061


----------



## Realist

Ageo said:
			
		

> any thoughts on this mornings open?
> 
> A200 currently @ 5065, my target is 5100.





Quick question.

Why have a target?  

And how did you determine this target exactly?


----------



## Ageo

Well not a target as such but on the price break of 5050 there should be little resistance all the way upto 5100 as its forming the next leg up. 

Considering its the 1st time after a while the price has broken the rangebound of 4900-5000 odd. Fundies will definately be throwing money at this market to keep it flowing.

But then again who knows!


----------



## porkpie324

forget the SPI today, the nickel miners is where the action is, porkpie


----------



## Realist

Wednesday all depends on BHP's announcement.

Can it be higher than expected....please.


----------



## Realist

What is the SPI now, I'm thinking it's gonna be a week of mainly ups.


----------



## Bobby

Like to know what are your brokers monthly fee's  to trade the SPI, also how much they require $$ to trade one contract intraday & overnight ?

Thanks Bob.


----------



## porkpie324

if you trade the SPI as i do using CFD's then i pay no brokerage, i only pay fee's if i hold a long pos overnight, porkpie


----------



## camronsystems

Here's a new one. Came across this blog of a professional SPI200 trader who trades in 1000+ lots. It's a daily diary of his view of the "state of the track" each day. While he is a position trader, it might be useful for short term traders also. You can see it at manipulators[dot]spaces[dot]live.com


----------



## Bobby

camronsystems said:
			
		

> Here's a new one. Came across this blog of a professional SPI200 trader who trades in 1000+ lots. It's a daily diary of his view of the "state of the track" each day. While he is a position trader, it might be useful for short term traders also. You can see it at manipulators[dot]spaces[dot]live.com




Why not just a simple address ? ---  
Can't get there with your hint.

Bob.


----------



## bingk6

porkpie324 said:
			
		

> if you trade the SPI as i do using CFD's then i pay no brokerage, i only pay fee's if i hold a long pos overnight, porkpie




Can you please reveal who your broker is ??


----------



## WaySolid

bingk6 said:
			
		

> Can you please reveal who your broker is ??



Not surprising they aren't charging brokerage!

Last time I checked there were 3 point spreads on IG for their SPI equivalent instrument.  

When you are robbing someone blind you don't need to ask for a tip.


** edit ** in reply to porkpie's post.


----------



## Bobby

porkpie324 said:
			
		

> if you trade the SPI as i do using CFD's then i pay no brokerage, i only pay fee's if i hold a long pos overnight, porkpie




Hello Porkpie,

Can you tell us,who you use & how you trade the SPI using CFd's  with not going overnight -RE costs.
Don't want your secrets just your trading procedure with who, how , & fees ?

Regards Bob.


----------



## WaySolid

I will explain my last post further as perhaps it might be of value to someone.

A CFD provider does not need to take brokerage fees from your account for SPI or related trading instruments as they make money from the spread, and that is a generous one, 3 points for IG and 5 points in the O/N market when last I looked. 

This means if you get filled at the level you wish then you will pay $75 AUD (3 points) per contract in RT fees, this is why they can be so generous to you and not charge comms. Factor in slippage and you are giving yourself massive frictional costs to overcome. 

I'm not aware who would trade this way other than the small speculator that simply doesn't know any better.


----------



## neo

Hi Cameronsystems,
Couldn't get that link/web address to show up anything. Could you confirm the website please........ sounds interesting!
Thanks in advance.


----------



## camronsystems

Sorry .. the link is http://manipulators.spaces.live.com/


----------



## Bobby

WaySolid said:
			
		

> I will explain my last post further as perhaps it might be of value to someone.
> 
> A CFD provider does not need to take brokerage fees from your account for SPI or related trading instruments as they make money from the spread, and that is a generous one, 3 points for IG and 5 points in the O/N market when last I looked.
> 
> This means if you get filled at the level you wish then you will pay $75 AUD (3 points) per contract in RT fees, this is why they can be so generous to you and not charge comms. Factor in slippage and you are giving yourself massive frictional costs to overcome.
> 
> I'm not aware who would trade this way other than the small speculator that simply doesn't know any better.



Hello Waysolid,

Who would you recommend to trade through    and why ?

Cheers Bob.


----------



## WaySolid

Bobby said:
			
		

> Hello Waysolid,
> 
> Who would you recommend to trade through    and why ?
> 
> Cheers Bob.



Do a search as this has been answered by Wayne and others on this forum. I don't want to recommend anyone personally.

I have a full service futures broker ($12.10 RT's per SPI contract) and electronic broker ($10 RT per SPI contract). Which shows the folly of trading such things through a CFD provider.


----------



## Bobby

WaySolid said:
			
		

> . I don't want to recommend anyone personally.
> 
> I have a full service futures broker ($12.10 RT's per SPI contract) and electronic broker ($10 RT per SPI contract). Which shows the folly of trading such things through a CFD provider.



 Thanks for the information so far, but no one knows who you or I am ! so why not say Who you deal through please ?   

Regards Bob.


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin

WaySolid said:
			
		

> Do a search as this has been answered by Wayne and others on this forum. I don't want to recommend  anyone personally.
> 
> I have a full service futures broker ($12.10 RT's per SPI contract) and electronic broker ($10 RT per SPI contract). Which shows the folly of trading such things through a CFD provider.




That it would not be - a reccomendation. It`s all in the way it is worded.


----------



## Ageo

WaySolid said:
			
		

> This means if you get filled at the level you wish then you will pay $75 AUD (3 points) per contract in RT fees, this is why they can be so generous to you and not charge comms. Factor in slippage and you are giving yourself massive frictional costs to overcome.
> 
> I'm not aware who would trade this way other than the small speculator that simply doesn't know any better.





2 pip spread on CMC for aussie200.


----------



## Ageo

dud day today?

looks like it.


----------



## Freddo

camronsystems said:
			
		

> Sorry .. the link is http://manipulators.spaces.live.com/




Camronsystems thanks for the link I found it interesting.

From the site mentioned
================================================
The Australian market has no respect for technical analysis. Its a load of CRAP  it doesnt work.
It might work for stock trading but not SPI trading.
I actively trade the SPI. I've left school and to this day still havent met anyone who has made money using technical analysis on the SPI.
==================================================


Whats that expression of Waynes? ... ROTFL
(rolling on the floor laughing)
..... I think he/she needs to get out more
I have met plenty of people using TA on the SPI and making money.


----------



## porkpie324

ok all u cfd nockers, first sorry for the delay in answering i'm a nz trader and was fast asleep resting on my large nickel CFD trade profits last night, we're 2 hrs ahead here.
i use cmc markets there is a 2 point spread and yes commission FREE, now i'm no expert on cfd providors but i have been trading shares for about 20years quite successfully, only using cfd's for 55 days and my a/c is up 120% and i have no open positions this morning, i no its early days but its a good start, i'm happy to answer any more queeries, porkpie


----------



## professor_frink

not much going on for me this morning. Just sitting on the sidelines ATM.



> From the site mentioned
> ================================================
> The Australian market has no respect for technical analysis. Its a load of CRAP it doesnt work.
> It might work for stock trading but not SPI trading.
> I actively trade the SPI. I've left school and to this day still havent met anyone who has made money using technical analysis on the SPI.
> ==================================================




I wonder what timeframe this person is referring to(day or position trading)? Seems like a slightly odd statement to make


----------



## Poor_Grenville

> From the site mentioned
> ================================================
> The Australian market has no respect for technical analysis. Its a load of CRAP it doesnt work.
> It might work for stock trading but not SPI trading.
> I actively trade the SPI. I've left school and to this day still havent met anyone who has made money using technical analysis on the SPI.
> ==================================================




Here are my thoughts on this person's blog:

He is obviosuly using Camron's system & software to trade, and looking
at Camron's web site, it's definately intrad-day trading.

Now, obviously this person has no grasp on any psychological aspect
of him self and his trading... this is easily demonstrated by accepting the
victim mentality i.e. they are manipulators in the SPI and they are
out to get us; TA does not work... well, the truth is, the market don't
give a hoot about what your views are - all it does is reflect aspects
of yourself that you need to work on.

Also, if a thing does not work FOR you, be it TA or voodoo or Gann, it 
doesn't mean it will not work for everyone else. Maybe it's just you
who  have not put in enough work to make it work FOR you!

Hope this post makes some sense ;-)


----------



## Freddo

Poor_Grenville said:
			
		

> Here are my thoughts on this person's blog:
> 
> He is obviosuly using Camron's system & software to trade, and looking
> at Camron's web site, it's definately intrad-day trading.
> 
> Now, obviously this person has no grasp on any psychological aspect
> of him self and his trading... this is easily demonstrated by accepting the
> victim mentality i.e. they are manipulators in the SPI and they are
> out to get us; TA does not work... well, the truth is, the market don't
> give a hoot about what your views are - all it does is reflect aspects
> of yourself that you need to work on.
> 
> Also, if a thing does not work FOR you, be it TA or voodoo or Gann, it
> doesn't mean it will not work for everyone else. Maybe it's just you
> who  have not put in enough work to make it work FOR you!
> 
> Hope this post makes some sense ;-)




You post makes perfect sense to me !
Totally agree...

The Blog says a bit about ADR movements and thats about it.

I seem to recall the author is reported to be a 1000+ lot trader
maybe I'm very selfish but if I was a successful 1000+ lot SPI200
trader I sure as heck won't be giving my time away maintaining a blog
to help out other traders.

I'd be too busy in my penthouse counting the cash


----------



## Ageo

Freddo said:
			
		

> I'd be too busy in my penthouse counting the cash





with 2 topless waitresses serving you Premium label liqour ?

 

sounds like fun.


----------



## Sensei

Ageo said:
			
		

> with 2 topless waitresses serving you Premium label liqour ?
> 
> sounds like fun.



  ... always good to give a little back ... whether to society in general, yr chosen charity or individuals ... he has chosen to "assist" traders following his path ... if he indeed has made his "fortune" and his motives are genuine ... then his actions are commendable .......
ok I'll stop preaching for now!!


----------



## Freddo

Sensei said:
			
		

> ... always good to give a little back ... whether to society in general, yr chosen charity or individuals ... he has chosen to "assist" traders following his path ... if he indeed has made his "fortune" and his motives are genuine ... then his actions are commendable .......
> ok I'll stop preaching for now!!




Sensei you are right, any trades that profit over $1,000 I donate 10% to charity.

Sorry I was just being a skeptic with a dose of cheekiness thrown in ...

Now about these waitresses


----------



## Sensei

Freddo said:
			
		

> Sorry I was just being a skeptic with a dose of cheekiness thrown in ...
> Now about these waitresses



lol ... i know ... the writing *was* between the lines ... now, where are those waitresses and make sure you tip well!! ...........


----------



## Ageo

i had a bucks night last sat that had 3 topless waitresses.

I was so annoyed because i had to stare at them all night


----------



## Bronte

O Dear! O Dear!  
What has Wayne done?


----------



## professor_frink

Bronte said:
			
		

> O Dear! O Dear!
> What has Wayne done?




I know Bronte isn't it shameful! Leave the boys to their own devices and the talk changes from trading index futures to talking about girls.

*GENTLEMEN-SHAME ON YOU ALL*


----------



## Ageo

I wouldnt mind that girl serving me drinks whilst im trading in the day.

Perhaps it wouldnt be a wise investment thow as i would be doing everything else but trading


----------



## Sensei

... must've been a dull day on the sfe .... but the after-hours market seem to be hotting up


----------



## Joe Blow

Back on topic please gentlemen. Less topless waitresses and more trading the SPI please.

I am finding that more and more stock related threads are veering off topic with general chat and I don't want ASF to go down that road. If you have something off topic to share, start a thread in General Chat or use the private message feature.

If things get any worse I will get cranky and nobody wants that. Least of all me.


----------



## professor_frink

Joe Blow said:
			
		

> Back on topic please gentlemen. Less topless waitresses and more trading the SPI please.
> 
> I am finding that more and more stock related threads are veering off topic with general chat and I don't want ASF to go down that road. If you have something off topic to share, start a thread in General Chat or use the private message feature.
> 
> If things get any worse I will get cranky and nobody wants that. Least of all me.





Sorry Joe. It was a very dull day for me  

I'll be good from now on!


----------



## Ageo

Joe Blow said:
			
		

> Back on topic please gentlemen. Less topless waitresses and more trading the SPI please.
> 
> I am finding that more and more stock related threads are veering off topic with general chat and I don't want ASF to go down that road. If you have something off topic to share, start a thread in General Chat or use the private message feature.
> 
> If things get any worse I will get cranky and nobody wants that. Least of all me.





hehe sorry Joe, just thought i would spice up the day a little as the A200 was disgusting today.

anywayz enough jibba jabba, on the with the trading.


----------



## wayneL

Freddo said:
			
		

> You post makes perfect sense to me !
> Totally agree...
> 
> The Blog says a bit about ADR movements and thats about it.
> 
> I seem to recall the author is reported to be a 1000+ lot trader
> maybe I'm very selfish but if I was a successful 1000+ lot SPI200
> trader I sure as heck won't be giving my time away maintaining a blog
> to help out other traders.
> 
> I'd be too busy in my penthouse counting the cash




1000 lot trader eh?

$25,000 per point?

$250,000 for a 10pt stop?

The total daily turnover on the spi is around 20,000 contracts! So this guy is *5% of total exchange volume on each trade?*

I am with the sceptics!!


----------



## happytrader

Hi all

I don't know anything about spi trading mechanisms, but I do recall someone regularly trading 200 option contracts of a very volatile resource stock which were not cheap. All eyes were on the tick history waiting for them to make their move. Out of interest, does the spi have a tick history?

Cheers
Happytrader


----------



## Hopeful

*Trading the Nikkei*

There is a new market available that some of you might be interested in it's the Nikkei 225 Mini contract.

100 yen per point, minimum 5 points per tick ie 500 yen per tick.

I like it because $5 per point doesn't scare me and I can focus on trading according to my plan not my emotions. It's quite liquid and has plenty of volume, trades from 9am-1130am then 1pm-3pm , it's in the Aussie time zone too.

So, in summary it's similar in many ways to the SPI but more liquid and less scary.


----------



## professor_frink

*Re: Trading the Nikkei*



			
				Hopeful said:
			
		

> There is a new market available that some of you might be interested in it's the Nikkei 225 Mini contract.
> 
> 100 yen per point, minimum 5 points per tick ie 500 yen per tick.
> 
> I like it because $5 per point doesn't scare me and I can focus on trading according to my plan not my emotions. It's quite liquid and has plenty of volume, trades from 9am-1130am then 1pm-3pm , it's in the Aussie time zone too.
> 
> So, in summary it's similar in many ways to the SPI but more liquid and less scary.




Which exchange is that on hopeful? I no you can trade the Nikkei on the SGX as well as in Japan.


----------



## Pager

Were in a very tight range 5057 to 5067, buy the break of 68 or sell the break of 56. 

Looking like a long is more likely at present


----------



## Ageo

Short 20 contracts on the A200 @ 5078.

Stop placed @ 5098 (20 points above).

R1 level is @ 5080.

should provide sufficient buffer for any stop hunts


----------



## neo

HI People,
I'm presently long.
Anyone know what time BHP releases their 05-06 FY results today?


----------



## Sensei

another "dull" day ....... volume looks low too so far ...  unless we break out of 70's on the up or low 50's in the down ... not interested in being churned back and forth


----------



## Pager

Have just had a read through of the thread, I post trades as I find it has helped me focus, some of my  trades have not been as they happened so to speak.

Not sure why some people have an issue with this ?

Oh and short at 5056, think that’s pretty much as it happened


----------



## Sensei

Pager said:
			
		

> Have just had a read through of the thread, I post trades as I find it has helped me focus, some of my  trades have not been as they happened so to speak.
> Not sure why some people have an issue with this ?
> Oh and short at 5056, think that’s pretty much as it happened



Pager, your calls seem ok.  It's the blatant and transparent calls after the event, using historical data to back up their case and passing it off as a call before the event that get under some peoples skin .... btw watch yr shorts ... the big boys are playing at the moment.


----------



## nat

morning all ,question to sensei ,how do you know the big boys are playing ?,are you watching market depth or vol of contracts going through ?
Nathan


----------



## Pager

Alot of support around 5050, i may look to cover on any sign of stength, stop is currently in the low 60,s

Also agree with your comments Sensei about posting after the event in the manner described. 

Cheers

Pager


----------



## Ageo

Stop moved to breakeven.

Hopefully it breaks the gravitation level of 5058.


----------



## Sensei

Pager said:
			
		

> Oh and short at 5056, think that’s pretty much as it happened



... watching and biased to down side but held off as the momentum fissled out .... volume low ... need more to get me in now.  I won't go in without some push behind it.  Remember I prefer to hang onto their coat-tails than take the lead and end up the well known creek without a paddle and holding the stop.
Nat ... talk in chat room


----------



## Poor_Grenville

nat said:
			
		

> morning all ,question to sensei ,how do you know the big boys are playing ?,are you watching market depth or vol of contracts going through ?
> Nathan




I belive that it's very difficult to tell when the big boys are playing
as they are not dumb, I mean, they know that there are traders who
tries to tailcoat their actions, and they don't want too much 
competition.... so they will do almost anything to disguise their
actions using lots of red heerings and decoys. IMO it's not worth the
effort to suss 'em out lol  

Just focus on your system/strategy's signals


----------



## Bronte

Pager said:
			
		

> Also agree with your comments Sensei about posting after the event in the manner described.



Absolutely and totally agree.
*Can you give us a live call soon please Sensei *


----------



## Sensei

... for all the yaughties ...... she's in *irons!*
has BHP posted it's result? ... if not ... when due?


----------



## Sensei

Bronte aren't you reading or does it have to be spelt out!


----------



## Bronte

Please spell it out for us all


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Absolutely and totally agree.
> *Can you give us a live call soon please Sensei *



Doesn't have to be today Sensei.  
Look forward to following one of your trades.


----------



## professor_frink

Sensei said:
			
		

> another "dull" day ....... volume looks low too so far ...  unless we break out of 70's on the up or low 50's in the down ... not interested in being churned back and forth




Kinda sucks at the moment doesn't it!

Got stopped out this morning. Don't think I'll be back for a 2nd go


----------



## Ageo

professor_frink said:
			
		

> Kinda sucks at the moment doesn't it!
> 
> Got stopped out this morning. Don't think I'll be back for a 2nd go




were you long frinks?


----------



## professor_frink

Ageo said:
			
		

> were you long frinks?




Sure was! Stupid trade really. First target was 8 points, with a stop of 5. Not a great risk/reward proposition.

Sigh


----------



## Pager

Out at 5053 for + 3 points

Market cant decide which way to go, new order placed, Selling 5047, still have buy order @ 5068.

Anyone know when BHP report, think it might be just after the close here and open in London ?


----------



## Ageo

Well materials and A200 have crossed over the EMA again which isnt a good sign for me.

I might get stopped out (breakeven anyway).

The report will definately swing this market a little.


----------



## Ageo

Well i did get stopped out (breakeven).

Energy got hammered today but it wasnt enough as Materials held the market up today.

Not to worry.

P.S Energy dropped over 220 points today.

Would have been a nice trade to get on


----------



## Pager

Just checked and im know long @ 5068, have placed stop around the mid 50,s, short order @ 5047 is still in place


----------



## Pager

Not sure if any other IB users have this problem but sometimes and usually around  2-15pm- 2-45pm I cannot log into Webtrader for about 20 mins.

Anyone else have this problem?

Have looked at using mobile trader (using my Phone), anyone used this method who can give feedback?


----------



## Pager

Been able to log back in   

Market is up to the mid 80,s   

Stop is know up to low 70,s

Back to work for me


----------



## wayneL

Pager said:
			
		

> Not sure if any other IB users have this problem but sometimes and usually around  2-15pm- 2-45pm I cannot log into Webtrader for about 20 mins.
> 
> Anyone else have this problem?
> 
> Bit of a pain as although I place my orders as bracket orders with a stop and target, I can’t start moving my stop in.
> 
> Have looked at using mobile trader (using my Phone), anyone used this method who can give feedback?




Pager

IB has servers in US, Hong Kong, and Europe

If you are on the wrong one for your time zone this will happen.

Email IB and tell them your problem and that you want to be on the Hong Kong server.

Cheers


----------



## professor_frink

I know hopeful mentioned the mini nikkei this morning, so he's looking at other indexes, but has anyone else looked at some of the other index futures in our timezone?

I've been looking at the Nikkei that trades on the SGX. She looks like a good one- nice size moves, big volume(makes the spi look very thin!), 1 tick spread(5 points) normally(ocassionally 2 ticks).

Min fluctuation works out to be about $28 AUD, so it's not that much different to the SPI.

Anyone played with this beast before?


----------



## Pager

Should be back working   

Thanks Wayne, im usimg Webtrader not TWS so the server is not the issue.

Think it may be when Webtrader re-sets as its always around the same time but will Email IB anyway.


----------



## Hopeful

*Re: Trading the Nikkei*



			
				professor_frink said:
			
		

> Which exchange is that on hopeful? I no you can trade the Nikkei on the SGX as well as in Japan.




Yes, there are a few options for trading thr Nikkei, but they are too big for me. The one I'm talking about trades on the Osaka Stock Exchange (funny, I live in Osaka). 

IB symbol is N225M , Sierra chart symbol is (sept) N225M-200609-OSE.JPN .

Maybe I should start a "Trading the Nikkei 225 Mini".


----------



## professor_frink

*Re: Trading the Nikkei*



			
				Hopeful said:
			
		

> Yes, there are a few options for trading thr Nikkei, but they are too big for me. The one I'm talking about trades on the Osaka Stock Exchange (funny, I live in Osaka).
> 
> IB symbol is N225M , Sierra chart symbol is (sept) N225M-200609-OSE.JPN .
> 
> Maybe I should start a "Trading the Nikkei 225 Mini".




What's the volume on the mini like? The singapore contract has been trading 40,000+ per day.


----------



## Pager

There is also a Mini Hang Seng, it trades in HK$10 ticks (about A$1-80) rather than the main contracts HK$50, only drawback is if its anything like the big contract, slippage may be a big factor to consider but the flip side is it can move.


----------



## Mr_Liquidity

S&P500

I am an options trader just found out you could trade on the S&P!

I have alwys traded on RIO MBL and WPL and somtimees CBA + NCM but it's great to see some index action on asx

Who else thinks this mini break out will come to nothing?

Personally with reporting apon us there could be something on the down side in next 3 weeks 

Have to wait


----------



## professor_frink

Pager said:
			
		

> There is also a Mini Hang Seng, it trades in HK$10 ticks (about A$1-80) rather than the main contracts HK$50, only drawback is if its anything like the big contract, slippage may be a big factor to consider but the flip side is it can move.




From the small amount I've looked at the hang seng, it looks to be very thinly traded. Could be good fun throwing 1 contract around.

You'd be a very brave man to try and trade any size on it IMO


----------



## Pager

Ive never traded the mini but yes could be very interesting   

Not sure how much volume it does, the big contract does a fair bit, but if you look at market depth for the big contract there is often bugger all there, maybe 2 on the bid and 3 on the offer   , maybe alot of traders only use market or stop orders ?.


----------



## professor_frink

Pager said:
			
		

> Ive never traded the mini but yes could be very interesting
> 
> Not sure how much volume it does, the big contract does a fair bit, but if you look at market depth for the big contract there is often bugger all there, maybe 2 on the bid and 3 on the offer   , maybe alot of traders only use market or stop orders ?.




The HSI only seems to be doing about 1500 contracts a day. Haven't looked at the mini yet.

Depth is pretty well non existent- I might touch it, but not for awhile- the nikkei looks to be a bit more friendly.


----------



## porkpie324

all cfd followers the trades on spi today, 5@2.48 5070,5@2.50 5068, 5@2.49 5068, 5@2.54 5068, 5@2.57 5069, 5@3.25 5073, 5@3.26  5074, 5@3.27 5074, 5@3.27 5072, 5@3.28 5070, 5@3.29 5071. 
closed all the above on MACD divergance at 5.00- 5.12 at 5098-5100
 all no commision and yes on 2 pip spread, porkpie


----------



## wayneL

Lets not go the hindsite trade route again folks.

By all means discuss the process in hindsite, but any specific trades should be posted in real time.

Thanks


----------



## Bronte

Sold 5067 LIVE on chat  
Does that count Wayne?


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Sold 5067 LIVE on chat
> Does that count Wayne?




If witnessed by others, sure! No problems, it's verifiable.

I would just mention that though, that is was called on chat, when applicable.

Cheers


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> *Sold 5067 LIVE on chat *



Now 5047 + 20 pts


----------



## Joe Blow

wayneL said:
			
		

> If witnessed by others, sure! No problems, it's verifiable.




If required, I can refer to the chat room logs for confirmation.


----------



## Pager

professor_frink said:
			
		

> The HSI only seems to be doing about 1500 contracts a day. Haven't looked at the mini yet.
> 
> Depth is pretty well non existent- I might touch it, but not for awhile- the nikkei looks to be a bit more friendly.




What contract are you following Profesor ?, the Hang Seng did nearly 32,000 yesterday ?, All the volume is in the current month (August), you do know it does not trade like most other markets, that is the Spi, Nikkei, S&P etc trade June/Sept/Dec/March, the Hang Seng trades all 12 months, so at present August has all the volume.

The Taiwan Index also trades all 12 months.

Anyway Spi today, was stopped out with a point slippage at 5070   , so 2 trades for + 5 points.

Cancelled the sell order @ 5047 as i thought it wouldnt have a hope in hell when we were trading in the mid 80,s ,but looking at the sell off towards the close, should have maybe left it be, be interesting to see were the night session opens, the bears were certainly in control for the last half hour.


----------



## Pager

Looks like the night session opened at 5054, thought it may have been higher after the BHP result, know 49, mmmmmmmmm.

Feel its a good buy looking at the discount we are running to the cash and how well support at this level held today, but the old gut doesnt feel right so will leave it alone.


----------



## professor_frink

Pager said:
			
		

> What contract are you following Profesor ?, the Hang Seng did nearly 32,000 yesterday ?, All the volume is in the current month (August), you do know it does not trade like most other markets, that is the Spi, Nikkei, S&P etc trade June/Sept/Dec/March, the Hang Seng trades all 12 months, so at present August has all the volume.
> 
> The Taiwan Index also trades all 12 months.
> 
> Anyway Spi today, was stopped out with a point slippage at 5070, so 2 trades for + 5 points.




  

When I booted up TWS this morning, it said the contract was going to expire soon and needed to be rolled over(or something to that effect), so I just clicked on yes. So I was looking at the wrong month.

*WHOOPS*


----------



## onemore

Prof Frink

What about the DAX ? It trades avg 120,000 a day.
Opens at 4pm our time,and is very liquid with large intraday swings .


----------



## Bronte

What is it about 'Trading the SPI'
That you dislike?
Just curious...


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Sold 5067 LIVE on chat



5037 on Sycom  
Stoploss now 66


----------



## Bronte

5028 Low  
Wanted 5027 Doh!
Maybe later on....


----------



## Pager

Well done Bronte

I cancelled my Sell order at 5047   , mind you we were trading 5085 at the time.

Was a little spooked by the BHP result coming after the close, could have pushed the market higher, or so i thought


----------



## professor_frink

onemore said:
			
		

> Prof Frink
> 
> What about the DAX ? It trades avg 120,000 a day.
> Opens at 4pm our time,and is very liquid with large intraday swings .




It's a possibility onemore. 
My thinking is that if there are markets in our timezone that are good to trade, I'll look at them first before looking elsewhere.

At least then I can get away from the screen at night, spend some time with my girlfriend and recharge the batteries for the next day's fun.

15 hours of trading and no play makes for a dull and stressed out professor  



			
				bronte said:
			
		

> What is it about 'Trading the SPI'
> That you dislike?
> Just curious...




Was that directed at me bronte? I'll answer anyway  

I don't dislike the SPI at all- Like most others, I don't like the price action every single day(yesterday for example), and not all days are going to fit in with my trading methods.

If I have more than one maket available to me, then I'll be able to be a bit more selective with trades that I take, and wait for the good quality setups, instead of not trading, or even worse, taking trades that I really shouldn't(like this morning's long that was stopped out!)


----------



## Bronte

Thank you


----------



## Bronte

Pager said:
			
		

> Well done Bronte
> I cancelled my Sell order at 5047   , mind you we were trading 5085 at the time.
> Was a little spooked by the BHP result coming after the close, could have pushed the market higher, or so i thought



"Thank you Pager"   
I sold way too early.
On the way up, not down.


----------



## Bronte

Sold 5068 (1 pt slippage)
Todays 3 min SPI Chart:


----------



## Pager

Professor_frink

Markets in our time zone worth a look IMO are Nikkei (SGX), Taiwan (SGX), Hang Seng, Topix (TSE), this Tracks the Nikkei (Osaka), or the Nikkei tracks it ?, Kopsi (Korea), this market trades huge volume but looks pretty choppy, not that I have traded it so don’t really know first hand but watching it, it does jump around a bit


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Sold 5068 (1 pt slippage)
> Todays 3 min SPI Chart:




So you were 24 pts underwater at one stage?


----------



## Bronte

Yes...very painful.
Only one contract but.......


----------



## wayneL

Imagine that on the alleged 1000 cars!!!

600k!!!


----------



## Pager

Bronte, you have a target of 40 points 5027, you have been underwater 24 points at 1 stage, how big are your stops ?.

Chasing 40 points i would only be risking about 10 points or 4 to 1 and that 10 points would be into breakeven ASAP.

Just curious


----------



## Bronte

LARRY WILLIAMS ON FEAR AND GREED

Currently on any given day I will be long or short somewhere over 2,000 Bonds.
That means that every tick in the Bond market will make....or lose me....$62,500
Believe me, if you want to get in touch with fear and greed there's no better way 
of doing it than to have each tick in the Bond market represent $62,500!


----------



## professor_frink

Pager said:
			
		

> Professor_frink
> 
> Markets in our time zone worth a look IMO are Nikkei (SGX), Taiwan (SGX), Hang Seng, Topix (TSE), this Tracks the Nikkei (Osaka), or the Nikkei tracks it ?, Kopsi (Korea), this market trades huge volume but looks pretty choppy, not that I have traded it so don’t really know first hand but watching it, it does jump around a bit




Thanks for that Pager. 

Now that I have the right month, the HSI is looking alot better volume-wise. 

Might go and take at look at the krazy Korean Kospi next


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> LARRY WILLIAMS ON FEAR AND GREED
> 
> Currently on any given day I will be long or short somewhere over 2,000 Bonds.
> That means that every tick in the Bond market will make....or lose me....$62,500
> Believe me, if you want to get in touch with fear and greed there's no better way
> of doing it than to have each tick in the Bond market represent $62,500!




That's nearly $2.5 million *USD* on initial margin alone, not including cash reserves.

Yet he couldn't stump up a paltry million *AUD* for bail?


----------



## wayneL

Bonds trade just a tad more than 20,000 contracts a day too


----------



## Bronte

Pager said:
			
		

> Bronte, you have a target of 40 points 5027, you have been underwater 24 points at 1 stage, how big are your stops ?.
> Chasing 40 points i would only be risking about 10 points or 4 to 1 and that 10 points would be into breakeven ASAP.
> Just curious



This trade started off as a fun trade  
I knew at some stage there would be a 'Sell Off"
& I had said that I would Sell 5067 on chat 1.27PM
So I did....regretted getting in too early.
As I posted it was only one contract.
My stops are usually very tight on....
"Gann Support / Resistance trades"
This wasn't one of them......
We also called 5048 as Gann Support earlier on.


----------



## Pager

Bronte said:
			
		

> LARRY WILLIAMS ON FEAR AND GREED
> 
> Currently on any given day I will be long or short somewhere over 2,000 Bonds.
> That means that every tick in the Bond market will make....or lose me....$62,500
> Believe me, if you want to get in touch with fear and greed there's no better way
> of doing it than to have each tick in the Bond market represent $62,500!




Larry Williams stuff is very good and I have learnt a lot from him, the 1 area he does not stack up IMO, is with these huge stops, yes you may get a high % winning trades but surely if you have say $40,000 in your account its better to risk say 10 points on 4 contracts than 80 points on 1?.

As long as your method is sound, you will be miles ahead in the long run even though you may only win say 40% compared to the huge stops 80% win rate with only 1 contract?


----------



## Bronte

We certainly agree with you post Pager.
When trading multi contracts
Stoplosses are essential


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> We certainly agree with you post Pager.
> When trading multi contracts
> Stoplosses are essential




We?


----------



## Bronte

Not again Wayne.  
Pls attack the system....not me


----------



## wayneL

Just having fun with you Bronte!


----------



## Bronte

Please Wayne...Why did you delete that post?


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Why did you delete that post Wayne?




Because a contained an innaccurate accusation and hence was a personal attack.

You see questions are always answered by me.

Who is we?


----------



## wayneL

Bronte throughout this thread, you have refered to yourself as "we". We bought here, we use stoplosses etc.

It's a simple question; who is we?


----------



## Bobby

wayneL said:
			
		

> Bronte throughout this thread, you have refered to yourself as "we". We bought here, we use stoplosses etc.
> 
> It's a simple question; who is we?



 Gees ! I can guess ,,, umm ?,,,, got it !  ~ B/S & me   

Bob.


----------



## Bronte

Thanks for the humour Bob.  

Please attack Gann, the trading system...whatever.
Attacking me is becoming very tedious.


----------



## Bronte

The *Gann Support/Resistance Areas * / trades are being called early. 
No one is disputing this.


----------



## Poor_Grenville

wayneL said:
			
		

> Bronte throughout this thread, you have refered to yourself as "we". We bought here, we use stoplosses etc.
> 
> It's a simple question; who is we?




From what I've gathered by talking to Bronte via chat is that
Battman and his wife uses the same ID (Bronte) to post... so
it's hard to tell who is doing the talking. So "we" here prolly
refers to both Battman and his wife. Bronte is the name of
thier pet apprently


----------



## Bronte

Nice call on the SPI this arvo PG (chat)
*Very well done *


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Thanks for the humour Bob.
> 
> Please attack Gann, the trading system...whatever.
> Attacking me is becoming very tedious.




Bronte,

It is a question, not an attack. We're just curious.....


----------



## wayneL

Poor_Grenville said:
			
		

> From what I've gathered by talking to Bronte via chat is that
> Battman and his wife uses the same ID (Bronte) to post... so
> it's hard to tell who is doing the talking. So "we" here prolly
> refers to both Battman and his wife.




Is this true?


----------



## Bronte

Please let us chat about "Trading the SPI"
That is what we are here for...is it not?


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Please let us chat about "Trading the SPI"
> That is what we are here for...is it not?




Bronte,

This goes to the heart of the very integrity of your "trading the SPI" posts. How can we believe anything you say if you are lying about your identity.

You have stated categorically that Battman64 and Bronte are two separate people. You have stated (as Bronte) that you do not know how the Gann Support/resistance is calculated and that "Battman64" works it all out.

Now we learn that "Bronte" may in fact be "Battman64" sometimes. Could it be that Bronte *IS* Battman64 as I have questioned you about previously?

There is an issue of honesty here, particularly in light of your history at other forums.

So what is the story?


----------



## Bobby

Poor_Grenville said:
			
		

> From what I've gathered by talking to Bronte via chat is that
> Battman and his wife uses the same ID (Bronte) to post... so
> it's hard to tell who is doing the talking. So "we" here prolly
> refers to both Battman and his wife. Bronte is the name of
> thier pet apprently




Wow P.G. that seems to make sense, the esoteric wolff-wolf may well be the source of some posts ?

Bob


----------



## Bronte

My husband is Battman 
I am Bronte  

It seemed that when Battman posted in the early days, 
he was attacked here by ReefCap members.
To keep the peace here Battman decided not to post.
I sometimes post Battmans thoughts/words for him.


----------



## Joe Blow

I am not quite sure what the answer to this issue of identity is and I'm not sure how much value there is in pursuing it unless Bronte/Battmann gives someone the okay to telephone or visit them in person.

Although I do not allow members to operate more than one account I have had a few people come to me and ask if another member of their household can register their own username. Although I am not 100% comfortable with this I do allow it because I am sure this sort of situation is a reality. However I do impose some conditions, one of which is that they do not respond to each others posts in stock related threads. I feel this has the potential to compromise the integrity of ASF. It goes without question that I expect Bronte/Battmann to abide by these same rules. Other than that I'm not sure what else can be done to verify identities besides someone actually speaking to or visiting them in person.

Perhaps we should let Bronte have the final say about who is who and then move on from this issue and get back to talking about Trading the SPI.


----------



## Bronte

Thank you Joe
Agreed.


----------



## Joe Blow

Joe Blow said:
			
		

> Perhaps we should let Bronte have the final say about who is who and then move on from this issue and get back to talking about Trading the SPI.




Okay, I see that has now been done. 

Moving right along....


----------



## Bobby

Bronte said:
			
		

> My husband is Battman
> I am Bronte
> 
> It seemed that when Battman posted in the early days,
> he was attacked here by ReefCap members.
> To keep the peace here Battman decided not to post.
> I sometimes post Battmans thoughts/words for him.




So pleased you post the Batts thoughts, how savoirfaire !   

Do keep posting now B?!?! or B?


----------



## Bronte

Thanks Bobby


----------



## Joe Blow

Okay now that we have that issue sorted out can we all get this thread back on track with live trades and analysis. No hindsight trades please.

Thank you.


----------



## Bobby

Bronte said:
			
		

> Thanks Bobby



Yes it's sure going to be entertaining to see what changeability now happens with your "calling the trades"  :blaah: 

But do have a go ~~ .

Bob.


----------



## yogi-in-oz

Hi folks,

XJO/SPI ..... looking for flat-to-down trading, until
late Friday 25082006, when a late rally would not
be surprising, at all.

Despite what the DOW does in early-September 2006,
our market may be out of synchronicity ..... :

       05092006 ..... negative = short

       08092006 ..... negative = short, late on Friday???

   19-20092006 ..... negative = short XJO???
                            DOW should be very strong, at this time.

    22-25092006 ..... positive cycle = long, late on Friday???

    03-04202006 ..... XJO positive = long

        10102006 ..... positive = long

    13-16102006 ..... 2 cycles here = long???


More later.

happy days

  yogi



=====


----------



## Pager

Looks like BHP was down nearly 4% in London, could be a bit of a drag on our market, night market closed @ 5027, after a low of 5010, after hours on the S&P is down a bit also.

There was a big discount to the cash on the close yesterday, maybe looking for the buy this morning with a very low open, or a break back above 5050.

On the sell side the obvious level (for me anyway)is 5008/10 or a break below 5000 once the cash is up and trading may be a better option.

Work is busy for me today, so maybe wont be able to trade


----------



## neo

I agree Pager,
I will be buying any open near/below the sycom close.
I think sycom was oversold!


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> 5028 Low
> Wanted *5027* Doh!
> Maybe later on....



Dow -42 Points
Sycom -36 Points
*Now 5027  * 5010 Low
6.30AM Thursday morning
Woke up to +40 Points  
*LIVE TRADE +$1000 *


----------



## Ageo

Yep im feeling the same way, low open to buy into.


----------



## onemore

Hi BRONT/MAN

When you have a stoploss in place overnight on the SYCOM,and it gets hit. Do you get much slippage?
Or do you get filled close to your stoploss price?
Whats an average i would be looking at.

onemore


----------



## Bronte

Good morning onemore  
We do not do a lot of sycom trading.
5027 was our target being one point above a previous Low
and of course a round* $1000 * plus a bit for brokerage  
Traders usually see the Bid / Offer and take it.


----------



## onemore

If i have a stoploss inplace overnight (GAM), incase it gaps against me on open the next day,and my stop gets hit during the nightsession, what would on average be the slippage?


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> This trade started off as a fun trade
> I knew at some stage there would be a 'Sell Off"
> & I had said that I would *Sell 5067 on chat 1.27PM*
> So I did....regretted getting in too early.
> As I posted it was only one contract.
> My stops are usually very tight on....
> "Gann Support / Resistance trades"
> This wasn't one of them......
> We also called 5048 as Gann Support earlier on.



I only took this trade after unfairly pushing Sensei to call a live trade 
Sorry onemore, I do not know the answer to your question.


----------



## onemore

Bront/man

When you swing trade dont you have a stoploss in place overnight? 

onemore


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Good morning onemore
> *We do not do a lot of sycom trading.*
> 5027 was our target being one point above a previous Low
> and of course a round* $1000 * plus a bit for brokerage
> Traders usually see the Bid / Offer and take it.



As I say we do not do a lot of Sycom / Swing trading onemore.
Please read what is left of this thread.....& you will see


----------



## Pager

Opened at 34, so higher rather than lower, selling 32 for a quickie


----------



## Pager

out at 27, for + 5, will see how the cash opens


----------



## Freddo

onemore said:
			
		

> If i have a stoploss inplace overnight (GAM), incase it gaps against me on open the next day,and my stop gets hit during the nightsession, what would on average be the slippage?




onemore,
I have never had slippage on my Sycom stops, however
when holding an overnight position I have never held more then
2 contracts. Also I don't get stopped out on a stop loss
on Sycom very often because I put my stops a looooooong
way away.

I use sycom for exits of trades as well and again yet (touch wood) to get slippage.

Regards

Freddo


----------



## Pager

Sold 23, stop at 35


----------



## Freddo

Anyone here care to share when they had slippage?
Have you found it to be related to number of contracts and or
action on the day?

Also lets say I have 2 systems ,1 averages 300 points a year
and the other 250 points a year.

Whats your opinion, would someone be better off trading 2 contracts
on system 1? or trading a single contract on each system?


----------



## Ageo

Short 20 contracts on the A200 @ 5040.

Stop is 20 points above.


----------



## Pager

Sycom slippage can be nasty, had 4/5/6/ points on more than a few occasions, im only a 1 or 2 lot trader also.

Day session every so often i pick up a point, sometimes 2 if the markets moving quickly.


----------



## onemore

Freddo,Pager

Thanks


----------



## nat

shorted a200 @5033 then in excitment hit the sell of another 4 @5035 instead of buy ,so short 8 on aussie 200,hope your right ageo Nathan


----------



## Bronte

Pager said:
			
		

> Sold 23, stop at 35



Do you have a target?


----------



## Pager

stop into 22, at worst + 1 point this trade


----------



## nat

that was at 10.00 out now at 8@5031 ,lucky to get away with that ,another lesson learnt Nathan


----------



## Pager

out at 5019 for + 4 points time to reasses


----------



## Bronte

Phew!
Well done Pager


----------



## Pager

Bronte said:
			
		

> Do you have a target?




No Bronte, these are scalps, but iam always looking for the runner   , wont look for a position until we break below 5010, or above 5040 (work permiting).

Have to log off and go back to the real world otherwise i wont get any work done, all current orders cancelled.


----------



## Bronte

Thanks Pager.
That was fun watching
Now 22/25


----------



## Ageo

nat said:
			
		

> shorted a200 @5033 then in excitment hit the sell of another 4 @5035 instead of buy ,so short 8 on aussie 200,hope your right ageo Nathan





haha dont hope for anything mate, in actual fact i hope for the worst all the time hehe.

5054 is the gravitation and targets today should be to 5003 1st major support level.

but who knows with this market.


----------



## Realist

Bronte said:
			
		

> Dow -42 Points
> Sycom -36 Points
> *Now 5027  * 5010 Low
> 6.30AM Thursday morning
> Woke up to +40 Points
> *LIVE TRADE +$1000 *




*Yeah and I bought AUM at 20 cents.
And sold at $10 
LIVE TRADE +$1,000,000,000,000*
 


Bronte, a live trade here is when you post a date stamped post and say "Buy so many at $xxx"

It is not logging in the next day and telling pork pies about what you supposedly did - that is too easy and irrelevant to everyone, even if it was true.

It is frustrating.   

My punt, I'd buy the SPI long today at about 1:40pm....


----------



## Bronte

You are not following the thread Realist....
*The trade was called LIVE in chat *


----------



## nat

any one have any thougts on the fact that materials and finance sector are outside daily pivot support points ,im thinking they wont go too far out of the fence so to speak which means market mightnt drop to much further. maybe if it does it might go to ageos target then rally,Nathan


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> *Sold 5067 LIVE on chat *
> Does that count Wayne?



*Verified by witnesses and Joe looked at the log 01.27PM*
Now please go back to sleep.....err! work


----------



## Ageo

nat said:
			
		

> any one have any thougts on the fact that materials and finance sector are outside daily pivot support points ,im thinking they wont go too far out of the fence so to speak which means market mightnt drop to much further. maybe if it does it might go to ageos target then rally,Nathan





yep 1 thing that has worried me.

Materials and energy look to be rallying back up.

I might close this trade and wait for extra confirmation

EDIT: stop moved to 10 points away.

Ill give it a chance to see if it moves down.


----------



## Realist

Bronte said:
			
		

> You are not following the thread Realist....
> *The trade was called LIVE in chat *





Same with my AUM trade of course...


----------



## Ageo

closed trade for a +3 point profit @ 5037.

Perhaps we might see a rally before another move down like yesterday?


----------



## nat

that would be nice ,im long 4@ 5037,getting impatient but ,,early lunch for them today,Nathan


----------



## nat

hoping for 5042 which is weekly res pp,c how it goes
Nathan


----------



## nat

out at 5032 bummer,Nathan


----------



## Ageo

energy and materials on the way back down again?


----------



## Ageo

i have a sore head hehe this market is just in its own world


----------



## Ageo

hehe you see what happens when you dont stick to your rules.

Oh well i never learn  

A200 is 5019 now


----------



## nat

hope i didnt influence you ageo ,sometimes i wonder if i just had a 2 and 10 min chart of a200 i would do better,might try it next week c if improves my trading Nathan


----------



## Ageo

nat said:
			
		

> hope i didnt influence you ageo ,sometimes i wonder if i just had a 2 and 10 min chart of a200 i would do better,might try it next week c if improves my trading Nathan




nah mate, just me being stupid and not wanting to lose thats all.

its ok, back to normal next trade.


----------



## Realist

My stocks are redder than a baboon's bum today.


----------



## Pager

Only just had a look, broke down I see, should have left my Sell order in place  .

Anyone who trades the Spi will no doubt know how frustrating it can be   , often when I go back to work I have left orders in my workstation, always a buy on stop and sell on stop, (like a bracket order) you get by default a stop should 1 order be hit, stop is a bit big on some occasions although Larry Williams and Bronte may not agree    (only joking Bronte, or is that Batman   ?). 

Been caught on a few occasions for a big stop out, however once I log back in usually with a couple of hours at the most the Stop is bought in to breakeven as by then the market is moving in the right direction, have to say this is not always the case and im well underwater, which is 1 reason I don’t do it so much anymore  .

Anway 2 trades and + 9 points and i missed the runner, thats maybe it for the day, will be unable to trade the close, think that discount may well come in by days end though.


----------



## Bronte

SPI 4982 Low


----------



## onemore

Bront/man

Just found a forum about Gann what do you think?
http://www.beginnertrader.com/forum2/


----------



## Ageo

Ageo said:
			
		

> 5054 is the gravitation and targets today should be to 5003 1st major support level.




grrrrrr 30 points missed out because emotions got in the way


----------



## Bearman52

Hi Folks
just about completed move to Mexico (MLB)New trading room nearly together screens ,wires, computers and furniture nearly as it should be .Got ADSL back on a couple of days ago and reviewed the Forum this morning,good to see there is no backing off in the debating (bickering) dept. Looks like I've missed some fantastic trading over the last few weeks and am looking forward to getting back into it.In the meantime I have been dumping and clearing up saved info and reading Waynes posts re contract #s and drawdowns etc I thought this might make interesting reading for some of you

Is eight figures a realistic goal? It has been done by private own account traders for years. Paul Rotter from Germany, 32 years old, is one trader that has made â‚¬50-60+ million ($65-78 million) per year for 10 years trading the most liquid contracts at the biggest futures exchange in the world, Frankfurts Eurex debt futures, primarily the Bund contract. 

In 2003 I received an email from a former Man Financial broker in London who said, "One of our private customers has been the highest volume trader on Eurex for the last 8 years. He trades approx 3 million lots a month and makes himself â‚¬50 million a year, which he has apparently been doing for the last 10 years." In 2004 I learned that it is Paul Rotter. He is notoriously called "the flipper". 

The bottom line is there are other traders, we never hear about, making 8 figure profits. If Rotter's trading style did not attract attention then we would have never heard of him. If Rotter and others can do it, then maybe you can to. Remember, trading is very risky and you will lose all your money if you do not know what you are doing and when to do it. So please do not trade unless you are ready and willing to accept and take personal responsibility for the outcome

Interesting reading and we all need to remember the last few lines

Good Trading to you all
Bearman


----------



## Pager

Bearman52 said:
			
		

> Is eight figures a realistic goal? It has been done by private own account traders for years. Paul Rotter from Germany, 32 years old, is one trader that has made â‚¬50-60+ million ($65-78 million) per year for 10 years trading the most liquid contracts at the biggest futures exchange in the world, Frankfurts Eurex debt futures, primarily the Bund contract.
> 
> In 2003 I received an email from a former Man Financial broker in London who said, "One of our private customers has been the highest volume trader on Eurex for the last 8 years. He trades approx 3 million lots a month and makes himself â‚¬50 million a year, which he has apparently been doing for the last 10 years." In 2004 I learned that it is Paul Rotter. He is notoriously called "the flipper".
> 
> 
> Bearman




hi Bearman and good luck

Certainly makes you think doesnt it, this Guy Paul Rotter, wow, here iam scratching around with 1 or 2 contracts thinking im doing ok, you can join the 10% or whatever % it is who make money trading futures but of that its about 2% or 3% again of that 10%, maybe less that make the serious $$$$$$$.

IMO the biggest problem for a trader is getting out of the Fear and Greed mentality, for me i know its my biggest obsticle, trading 1 contract i back out of trades sometimes when i know i shouldnt, i tried trading 5 contract but couldnt do it, with 1 on the whole im comfortable.

My demon needs to be conquered   

Cheers

Pager


----------



## Ageo

Pager said:
			
		

> hi Bearman and good luck
> 
> Certainly makes you think doesnt it, this Guy Paul Rotter, wow, here iam scratching around with 1 or 2 contracts thinking im doing ok, you can join the 10% or whatever % it is who make money trading futures but of that its about 2% or 3% again of that 10%, maybe less that make the serious $$$$$$$.
> 
> IMO the biggest problem for a trader is getting out of the Fear and Greed mentality, for me i know its my biggest obsticle, trading 1 contract i back out of trades sometimes when i know i shouldnt, i tried trading 5 contract but couldnt do it, with 1 on the whole im comfortable.
> 
> My demon needs to be conquered
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Pager





Your not alone mate.

By rights with my money management i should be trading 100 contracts ($100 per point move for CFD's).

As my stops are 10 points away which allows for a 1% risk per trade on my capital.

But im stuck with 20 contracts as my mentality needs to learn losing is part of the game.

It wont happen overnight but it will happen.


----------



## Ageo

Just to update, the A200 went wild today.

Back to 4900? hehe


----------



## porkpie324

Remember it's a long weekend in UK &US. porkpie


----------



## Freddo

For your viewing pleasure, my new EOD trading system
Still working on the exits but the entries are looking very sharp.!


----------



## nat

hi there freddo ,your right the entries do look alright ,but as many traders quote ,its the exits that determine if make the money or not ,althou a good entry gets one on there way to profits quicker,,
Hey was just wondering you or anyone else ,im reading about the spi being at fair value  'they say ' fair value on the spi is 4940 but it closed at 4975..
   My question is who determines what the fair value price is ,and can it be used to make a judgement on direction ?
   My next question then is how does one arrive at this fair value of the spi ,can i get it from a website or can one do it themselves?
                                                                                     Nathan


----------



## Freddo

nat said:
			
		

> hi there freddo ,your right the entries do look alright ,but as many traders quote ,its the exits that determine if make the money or not ,althou a good entry gets one on there way to profits quicker,,
> Hey was just wondering you or anyone else ,im reading about the spi being at fair value  'they say ' fair value on the spi is 4940 but it closed at 4975..
> My question is who determines what the fair value price is ,and can it be used to make a judgement on direction ?
> My next question then is how does one arrive at this fair value of the spi ,can i get it from a website or can one do it themselves?
> Nathan




Hi Nathan,
You are absolutely right, getting in a trade is one thing managing it is another.

RE: Fair Value, this is how I understand it

 I used to get the price of the index itself and spot SPI200
contract, then work out the the days to expiry of the current/spot contract
use the price of the index by bill rate for the days to expiry and add that to
the current index price.

Bugger that doesn't seem to make sense lets use an example
ASX200 Cash is say 5000
Future contract (current/spot) is at 5200
Days to expiry 60
Bill rate 5.25
Mulitply 5000 by 5.25%,  divide by 365 to get daily then multiply by 60
to get carry amount to contract expiry, I think that comes to 43
Add this amount to ASX200 price  5000 + 43 5043
So current contract (5200) is at a premium to cash 5043.

Fair value would be where the current contract and Cash price pplus carry
amount are similar.

Regards

Freddo


----------



## nat

ok then thanx for that might look into it a bit,c what i can derive from the fair value over next few weeks, Nathan


----------



## Freddo

nat said:
			
		

> ok then thanx for that might look into it a bit,c what i can derive from the fair value over next few weeks, Nathan




No worries

Here's a spreadsheet I used to use.
You might be able to use it to build something for yourself


----------



## Ageo

Short 20 contracts on the A200 @ 4984.

Stop is 5004 (20 points above).


----------



## Realist

I'm thinking its going up.

We'll see...


----------



## Ageo

Realist said:
			
		

> I'm thinking its going up.
> 
> We'll see...




Geez if it goes up your a magician lol


----------



## Ageo

Oh and yes i agree with you, but i missed the long opportunity and believe it should retrace back before smashing through the 5000 barrier.

But thats just my worthless opinion


----------



## Ageo

Stopped out for a 20 point loss.

Hopefully it comes back down before it moves higher.


----------



## Realist

Ageo said:
			
		

> Geez if it goes up your a magician lol





Abracadabra.....


----------



## Bearman52

Freddo said:
			
		

> For your viewing pleasure, my new EOD trading system
> Still working on the exits but the entries are looking very sharp.!



FREDDO
THERE IS A PRETTY REASONABLE ARGUMENT FOR BEING IN CONSTANTLY IN THE MARKET WHY NOT JUST REVERSE YOUR POSITIONS "X" MARKS THE SPOT LOOKS VERY PROFITABLE TO ME
BM


----------



## swingstar

Freddo said:
			
		

> For your viewing pleasure, my new EOD trading system
> Still working on the exits but the entries are looking very sharp.!




Those entries look very similar to my swing trading system (I only enter at close). 

I think you mentioned before that you use maths - have you done so with that system?


----------



## Ageo

Short 20 contracts on the A200 @ 4999.

Stop is 10 points away.

EMA crossover was the trigger


----------



## Freddo

Bearman52 said:
			
		

> FREDDO
> THERE IS A PRETTY REASONABLE ARGUMENT FOR BEING IN CONSTANTLY IN THE MARKET WHY NOT JUST REVERSE YOUR POSITIONS "X" MARKS THE SPOT LOOKS VERY PROFITABLE TO ME
> BM




BM,

 ..... sometimes you just can't see the things right in front of
your face.

I take a look at longer time frame and see what it looks like.

Thanks for your feedback

Regards

Freddo


----------



## Ageo

hehe got eaten up today.

Another 10 point loss.

Not to worry


----------



## Realist

Ageo said:
			
		

> hehe got eaten up today.
> 
> Another 10 point loss.
> 
> Not to worry





why are you shorting?

Yesterday was a bloody bad day for the ASX, I got thumped, despite BHP announcing simply fantastic earnings, the DOw and Nasdaq were up a tiny bit last night, surely today would be a day to go long, and the ASX will recover about half of yesterday's losses.


----------



## Freddo

swingstar said:
			
		

> Those entries look very similar to my swing trading system (I only enter at close).
> 
> I think you mentioned before that you use maths - have you done so with that system?




Hi Swingstar,

Thanks for checking my Chart out.

You are correct... I use it in combination with patterns though.
Let me give a quick example of my patterns searching which was
the hardest bit.

Lets just use the Open and Close and we'll only use 2 days
Todays Open TO
Todays Close TC
Yesterdays Open YO
Yesterdays Close YC
I wanted to test if I could determine is there a repeating cycle
The permutations are HUGE

IF TO > YO and TC > YC and TO > YC and TO > YO
IF TO < YO and TC < YC and TO < YC and TO < YO
IF TO > YO and TC < YC and YO > YC and TO > YO
IF TO > YO and TC < YC and YO > YC and TO < YO
IF TO < YO and .....

My last pattern detection test I used 3 PCs and it took
4 days to complete 

Generating all the was very difficult especially
when you use the high and low values and you go beyond
2 days !!

It nearly drove me insane..

I stumbled across a freeware utility written in Perl (programming language)
called PowerSet.
I used it to generate the permutations then I created 8 database tables
in ACCESS and loaded the permutations in to various tables and I did
an ACCESS query to join the tables which created a massive number
of ACCESS queries which I then ran against the SPI daily history.

I ended up with hundreds of profitable systems and I have narrowed it
down to the top ten and currently concentrating on the top 2.
The top performing pattern i used to enhance my existing EOD system.

Regards

Freddo


----------



## Bearman52

VERY SCARY FREDDO 
BM


----------



## Freddo

Bearman52 said:
			
		

> VERY SCARY FREDDO
> BM




 
NEVER again BM !
My wife will most upset and will do unspeakable things to me 

Whilst that was running I was back testing a further 153 systems
which I ran over and over again.

One of the 153 systems returned $87,500 *per contract * per year over the last 6 years   . I nearly wet myself, then I realised I had 2 minus signs for the parameters.
It wasn't looking back it was actually looking forward  
Rotten ZigZag function caught me out in a similar fashion.

Freddo


----------



## Poor_Grenville

Freddo said:
			
		

> Hi Swingstar,
> 
> Thanks for checking my Chart out.
> 
> You are correct... I use it in combination with patterns though.
> Let me give a quick example of my patterns searching which was
> the hardest bit.
> 
> Lets just use the Open and Close and we'll only use 2 days
> Todays Open TO
> Todays Close TC
> Yesterdays Open YO
> Yesterdays Close YC
> I wanted to test if I could determine is there a repeating cycle
> The permutations are HUGE
> 
> IF TO > YO and TC > YC and TO > YC and TO > YO
> IF TO < YO and TC < YC and TO < YC and TO < YO
> IF TO > YO and TC < YC and YO > YC and TO > YO
> IF TO > YO and TC < YC and YO > YC and TO < YO
> IF TO < YO and .....
> 
> My last pattern detection test I used 3 PCs and it took
> 4 days to complete
> 
> Generating all the was very difficult especially
> when you use the high and low values and you go beyond
> 2 days !!
> 
> It nearly drove me insane..
> 
> I stumbled across a freeware utility written in Perl (programming language)
> called PowerSet.
> I used it to generate the permutations then I created 8 database tables
> in ACCESS and loaded the permutations in to various tables and I did
> an ACCESS query to join the tables which created a massive number
> of ACCESS queries which I then ran against the SPI daily history.
> 
> I ended up with hundreds of profitable systems and I have narrowed it
> down to the top ten and currently concentrating on the top 2.
> The top performing pattern i used to enhance my existing EOD system.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Freddo




Freddo my friend... that is pure hardcoresness (is that even  a word? ) dping all those computation... my hat goes off to you


----------



## Ageo

Realist said:
			
		

> why are you shorting?
> 
> Yesterday was a bloody bad day for the ASX, I got thumped, despite BHP announcing simply fantastic earnings, the DOw and Nasdaq were up a tiny bit last night, surely today would be a day to go long, and the ASX will recover about half of yesterday's losses.




Because in my views were that it should hit around 5025 or so before it raced back up.

Don't worry Realist, im just giving back some money i took from them before


----------



## Realist

Ageo said:
			
		

> Because in my views were that it should hit around 5025 or so before it raced back up.
> 
> Don't worry Realist, im just giving back some money i took from them before




How did you work that out though?   

Try trading paper money for a week without charting, and try and asses if the SPI is gonna head up or down and till what time roughly (not what price excactly) - see how you do.

It may be a good learning experience.     



I'm happy to take any spare money off you if you are giving it away?


----------



## Ageo

Realist said:
			
		

> How did you work that out though?
> 
> Try trading paper money for a week without charting, and try and asses if the SPI is gonna head up or down and till what time roughly (not what price excactly) - see how you do.
> 
> It may be a good learning experience.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm happy to take any spare money off you if you are giving it away?




Realist, im up 40 points so far for the month just on the A200 (including todays loss). I can't see how changing my system will be beneficial?


----------



## Realist

Fair enough.

What is your system in a sentence or two?


----------



## Ageo

Realist said:
			
		

> Fair enough.
> 
> What is your system in a sentence or two?




Trading off support/resistance levels

and EMA crossovers.

I never risk more than 1% of my capital per trade (atm its actually 0.25%)

Thats my A200 trading, then i trade based on ASR's trades which is over $1200 for the month so far.

But thats with smaller contracts.


----------



## swingstar

Freddo said:
			
		

> Hi Swingstar,
> 
> Thanks for checking my Chart out.
> 
> You are correct... I use it in combination with patterns though.
> Let me give a quick example of my patterns searching which was
> the hardest bit.
> 
> Lets just use the Open and Close and we'll only use 2 days
> Todays Open TO
> Todays Close TC
> Yesterdays Open YO
> Yesterdays Close YC
> I wanted to test if I could determine is there a repeating cycle
> The permutations are HUGE
> 
> IF TO > YO and TC > YC and TO > YC and TO > YO
> IF TO < YO and TC < YC and TO < YC and TO < YO
> IF TO > YO and TC < YC and YO > YC and TO > YO
> IF TO > YO and TC < YC and YO > YC and TO < YO
> IF TO < YO and .....
> 
> My last pattern detection test I used 3 PCs and it took
> 4 days to complete
> 
> Generating all the was very difficult especially
> when you use the high and low values and you go beyond
> 2 days !!
> 
> It nearly drove me insane..
> 
> I stumbled across a freeware utility written in Perl (programming language)
> called PowerSet.
> I used it to generate the permutations then I created 8 database tables
> in ACCESS and loaded the permutations in to various tables and I did
> an ACCESS query to join the tables which created a massive number
> of ACCESS queries which I then ran against the SPI daily history.
> 
> I ended up with hundreds of profitable systems and I have narrowed it
> down to the top ten and currently concentrating on the top 2.
> The top performing pattern i used to enhance my existing EOD system.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Freddo




Thanks Freddo. Interesting to see how others test methods. My system isn't nearly as complex, although I do have specific rules that happened to jump out at me when looking at your chart. Maybe when I have more samples I'll be able to really nut out some constant patterns that produce the big wins (and size positions accordingly).


----------



## Freddo

swingstar said:
			
		

> Thanks Freddo. Interesting to see how others test methods. My system isn't nearly as complex, although I do have specific rules that happened to jump out at me when looking at your chart. Maybe when I have more samples I'll be able to really nut out some constant patterns that produce the big wins (and size positions accordingly).




My trading systems themselves are very simple, but building the pattern detector was tricky.

I'm currently short 1 contract using System 2.


----------



## Bobby

Anyone trade the SPIDO ( Spi200 intra-day options ) ?

Just like to know if I'm missing any risk factors.

Bob.


----------



## wayneL

Bobby said:
			
		

> Just like to know if I'm missing any risk factors.
> 
> Bob.




5 pts of theta?


----------



## Bobby

wayneL said:
			
		

> 5 pts of theta?



 Thanks Wayne,
If theta is the measure of time decay on rick, how is the 5 points calculated please ?

Bob.


----------



## wayneL

Bobby said:
			
		

> Thanks Wayne,
> If theta is the measure of time decay on rick, how is the 5 points calculated please ?
> 
> Bob.




I'm a fuzzy on the details, it's been yonks since I looked at those. But I remember the premium for an ATM SPIDO was about 5 pts. It must be substantially more now. According to Cox & Rubinstein, 1 day option premium is about 13 pts or more.

But models are laughably innacurate when close to expiry.

You have to look in the real market to see what they are trading at.

I suspect this could be a thin market too which could add to risk.

Cheers


----------



## Bobby

wayneL said:
			
		

> I'm a fuzzy on the details, it's been yonks since I looked at those. But I remember the premium for an ATM SPIDO was about 5 pts. It must be substantially more now. According to Cox & Rubinstein, 1 day option premium is about 13 pts or more.
> 
> But models are laughably innacurate when close to expiry.
> 
> You have to look in the real market to see what they are trading at.
> 
> I suspect this could be a thin market too which could add to risk.
> 
> Cheers



Thanks again so-far , I'll check them out tomorrow,
Yep a thin market is a worry.

Have Fun
Bob.


----------



## onemore

G/day
Have you had a look at deisels blog lately (very clued up guy) But is it just some way to market Tricom?.

Seems a bit fishy to me.
But then again what would i know i can't even make *ANY* money on the SPI.


----------



## camronsystems

All day Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday were very quiet days, with a small range. The SPI200 struggled to get above 5065. On Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, Macquarie Bank in their nightly market wrap were telling anyone and everyone, they (macquarie) were selling the SPI200 above 5065. MBL are one of the largest writers of options in Australia. On Monday am, Tuesday am and Wednesday am, Deisel's blog warned they were gonna kill the BHP options. Which is what happened on Thursday, options expiry day. Thats how the SPI200 works.


----------



## nat

thanx for that snippet of info cameron systems ,,,,rdo for everyone today?Nathan


----------



## Bronte

Congratulations wayneL, enzo, spitrader, spitraderI, spitraderII..
You have pretty much done what you set out to do.....
Killed this thread.....Well done mate!


----------



## happytrader

To the Powers that Be

I don't know why a thread with a 3 star rating and over a 100,000 viewings as well as consistent chart action posts over 2 years (historical data) should be deleted. 

What is left looks like meanderings better suited to a chatroom.

Cheers
Happytrader


----------



## Freddo

happytrader said:
			
		

> To the Powers that Be
> 
> I don't know why a thread with a 3 star rating and over a 100,000 viewings as well as consistent chart action posts over 2 years (historical data) should be deleted.
> 
> What is left looks like meanderings better suited to a chatroom.
> 
> Cheers
> Happytrader




Must say I would have liked the history to have stayed as well.

There are is [sorry] was GOLD in this thread from a broad range of people


----------



## Joe Blow

Guys, there were 2000 posts accidentally deleted from this thread that are unable to be restored. It wasn't intentional but there is nothing that can be done about it now unfortunately. 

It is possible to get this thread back on track but that is up to those who participate and post in it.


----------



## nat

Hi there ,this question is to ageo or more aussie 200 people on cmc,,,When i pass the curser over the buy or sell button on 2 click order ,a number comes up Eg ,sell 20140,,,,,buy 20152,Im guessing it has something to do with contracts maybe ,ive never seen it yet where sell side is greater then buy side but have seen it close then move away ,also have seen it double on bottoms or tops on odd occasion to 40000,Maybe should ring cmc and find out for sure ,but was wondering if anyone else has used this for any signals or direction .Nathan


----------



## nat

Stop wondering everyone ,ive worked it out ,it is total value of contracts on ticket by price ,rather simple reallly ,Nathan


----------



## Ageo

nat havent used it mate.

Im changing over back to IG thow. CMC A200 prices are different to all other CFD providers.

IG also has DMA for share cfd's which can come in handy.


----------



## nat

ok then ,is all the other spi cfds follow the futres contract exactly with price ?,,it is a bit annoying at times cross refrencing charts with diff values ,but as said before thats not really hindering me its more my disapline.Good luck trading with ig be interested to c how you go, Nathan


----------



## Ageo

nat said:
			
		

> ok then ,is all the other spi cfds follow the futres contract exactly with price ?,,it is a bit annoying at times cross refrencing charts with diff values ,but as said before thats not really hindering me its more my disapline.Good luck trading with ig be interested to c how you go, Nathan




Not sure nat but the prices are guaranteed.


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Congratulations wayneL, enzo, spitrader, spitraderI, spitraderII..
> You have pretty much done what you set out to do.....
> Killed this thread.....Well done mate!




Bronte

Let me tell what I tried to do

1/ Stop the retrospective posting of trades

2/ Get people to discuss the process. You appear to be the only one who refuses to do so... even to the point of claiming you don't know the process.

Now as to your accusation. Are you accusing me of having multiple nicks? Because if you are, that would be the most breathtaking piece if irony I have ever seen in my entire life.

Please clarify.


----------



## neo

Hi WayneL,
A question...... who really cares if someone posts retrospective trades? If they are lying they are only cheating themselves .....that's their own problem. 
When day trading the SPI there is hardly the time to write up a post prior to placing an order when you are making a split second decision. What is wrong with saying that 'this'  is what I did (and possibly why) after the fact..... 
Why does the content need to be policed so that it conforms to the moderators ideal of what the thread should be about.... should that not be determined by the people who wish to be involved in the discussion?


----------



## Bobby

neo said:
			
		

> Hi WayneL,
> A question...... who really cares if someone posts retrospective trades? If they are lying they are only cheating themselves .....that's their own problem.
> When day trading the SPI there is hardly the time to write up a post prior to placing an order when you are making a split second decision. What is wrong with saying that 'this'  is what I did (and possibly why) after the fact.....
> Why does the content need to be policed so that it conforms to the moderators ideal of what the thread should be about.... should that not be determined by the people who wish to be involved in the discussion?



*Hey Neo, I CARE !!* 

This site has integrity, many other sites suffer from lies & hypocrisy   
Not this one !
Wayne has my full backing on this.

Bob.


----------



## wayneL

Neo,

When someone is also offering trading instruction as Battman/Bronte does. It becomes very important. People are making decisions about spending a great deal of money on instruction on the basis of postings on forums. 

I have also seen a great amount of acrimony  caused by this on overseas forums. Anytime retropective trades start getting posted, the thread invariably degenerates into complete rubbish. I have also seen where retrospective trades are posted for a while... all winners of course... then the poster advertises a course for sale. It happens ALL the time. It's fraud!

You may think I've spoilt the fun on this thread, but believe me, you ain't seen nothing. Long term this forum will be all the better for it.

Look, most people realise it takes a couple of minutes to get a post up from a trade. Nobody worries about that. But there are lots of reasons to maintain posters integrity about this as it is easy to manipulate and has the potential to cause a lot of damage to individuals.

Bronte et al is most welcome to post trades here and are encouraged to do so. He/she has done so in the past and things were sweet. There is no reason why Bronte or anyone shouldn't do so in the future, as long as it is reasonably live.

Cheers


----------



## Bearman52

Yep !! looks dead to me
BM


----------



## Freddo

Ladies & Gents

NO posts in the last 2 days   
This thread is dead....  

I learned a good deal from a bunch of people
and I hope I added some value too.

Sensei, Professor Frink, Bronte, Neo, Mit,Nat, WayneL, BearMan, Pager, OneMore it's been great, Thanks to you all

Bronte you have copped a good deal of flack on this thread, 
I always enjoyed your posts and I learned from them
regardless of if they were realtime or after the fact. Thankyou

Farewell My Friends I wish you well in your trading.

Regards

Freddo

"Freddo Has Left The Building"


----------



## Ageo

Sorry guys about not posting but im switching over to IG so i wont be trading until next week sometime.

cheers


----------



## pchivers

I see noone has traded the two new serial SPI200 contracts (Oct and Nov) yet (Open Interest is still zero).  These things do tend to start off slowly but does anyone think we really need them?

Also with serial options now expiring every month I guess we need to watch out for options expiry manipulation every month too.

Just a heads up for those not aware.


----------



## nat

Trading with IG markets yet ageo?nathan


----------



## Ageo

nat said:
			
		

> Trading with IG markets yet ageo?nathan




hey nat, not yet still transferring the cash over (takes a few days).


----------



## professor_frink

any particular reason for the switch ageo?


----------



## Ageo

Dont like the way CMC go about things.

Plus IG has DMA which helps


----------



## Realist

Anyone short the SPI early on Monday?  

You'd have made 70 odd points!!     

There'll be a chance to go up maybe 100 or more points in a day or two soon as well, you just gotta pick your moment. It may infact be tonite!!


----------



## swingstar

Realist said:
			
		

> There'll be a chance to go up maybe 100 or more points in a day or two soon as well, you just gotta pick your moment. It may infact be tonite!!




Reason?


----------



## Realist

swingstar said:
			
		

> Reason?





Thank you for your long and indepth question.   

Quite simply I believe the fundamentals and current valuations of ASX stocks in general, particularily the larger companies are reasonable to good. And that the correction in May, and the minor correction so far in September is based on market sentiment, nothing more.

A correction in Rescource prices is already built into most large Resource companies as it is.  And China's demand for Resources wont wain overnight.

The next uptrend on the SPI we get could go up 100 points over 1 or 2 days IMHO.  And that may start tonite when the US opens.

I'm just guessing though - we'll see.

If the SPI is down overnight then I'm guessing it'll get going up at 10:02am tomorrow....


----------



## iSPI

Realist said:
			
		

> Anyone short the SPI early on Monday?
> 
> You'd have made 70 odd points!!
> 
> There'll be a chance to go up maybe 100 or more points in a day or two soon as well, you just gotta pick your moment. It may infact be tonite!!




I shorted it last Wednesday 6/9/2006 and exited yesterday (unfortunately) when I put my stop too close.

I posted my entry on another forum. I will not post address of the forum
here in case it violates rules of this one.


----------



## Bobby

iSPI said:
			
		

> I shorted it last Wednesday 6/9/2006 and exited yesterday (unfortunately) when I put my stop too close.




Well done iSPI!

What are your thoughts on the SPI at the moment?

Regards 
Bob.


----------



## iSPI

Bobby said:
			
		

> Well done iSPI!
> 
> What are your thoughts on the SPI at the moment?
> 
> Regards
> Bob.





Bob


I think it has further to go.

Momentum appeared to slow today.

6 sept 2006 lined up on time and price for me, I don't have a time for the end of this run down showing yet. Keep in mind I don't make forecasts months in advance my time and price system often shows the day before or on the day itself.

We have had a decent run down though so it seems probable that there will be some profit taking and a a rally soon.

I am seeing *nothing* that indicates anything positive for the upside

If I hadn't of put my stop too close I would still be holding my shorts.

I also need to point out I didn't hold all 5 contracts for the full period
I closed out on the 7th and reentered short 2 contracts on the same date
which I exited yesterday.
I made the same mistake twice, put my trailing stop too close...

Heres what I said yesterday
====================================================
Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:45 am    Post subject:      

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We should see some resistance at 5025 and 5000 if it gets that far. 

We are at 5040 now and we still have the this afternoons happy hour 
to come yet. 

Friday high 5109 todays high so far 5108 looks like a double top. 

Weekly chart high 7/7/2006 5153, 8th sept 5170 what is know as a lazy M 
like a double top. 

Market could end up near 4592 if it follows double top/lazy M behaviour 

It will be interesting to see what happens if it dips into the channel from 
14th July to 16th august. 

The top of the channel was around 5012, the bottom 4871 
these will be intersting to watch if we get there 
=============================================


----------



## Bobby

iSPI said:
			
		

> I think it has further to go.




Hello iSPI,

Thanks for your analysis,  I look at a few things late ~ that give me the probable direction or gap of the next days opening.
I do agree with you about tomorrow.

Cheers Bob.


----------



## iSPI

Bobby said:
			
		

> Hello iSPI,
> 
> Thanks for your analysis,  I look at a few things late ~ that give me the probable direction or gap of the next days opening.
> I do agree with you about tomorrow.
> 
> Cheers Bob.




No problem Bob....

I notice Sycom took a heavy hit around 5:24pm
a big night down so we get a gap down at the open would have me 
looking to take a quick long trade against the trend.

Cheers
iSPI
PS of course I don't mind if it gaps the other way either because I might get a reentry for my shorts


----------



## Bobby

iSPI said:
			
		

> No problem Bob....
> 
> I notice Sycom took a heavy hit around 5:24pm
> a big night down so we get a gap down at the open would have me
> looking to take a quick long trade against the trend.
> 
> Cheers
> iSPI
> PS of course I don't mind if it gaps the other way either because I might get a reentry for my shorts




Liked that last last bit   

Have Fun
Bob.


----------



## spitrader1

is this forum dead??? i go away for three weeks and there is relatively no posting?? whats going on?


----------



## Pager

My   

The thread Got a bit silly spitrader   , then posts started disapearing   .

Think most who posted got fed up with it and moved on.


----------



## spitrader1

Pager said:
			
		

> My
> 
> The thread Got a bit silly spitrader   , then posts started disapearing   .
> 
> Think most who posted got fed up with it and moved on.



well that is a bit dissapointing.....i always found this at the least entertaining.


----------



## Realist

Realist said:
			
		

> If the SPI is down overnight then I'm guessing it'll get going up at 10:02am tomorrow....




What is it doing??    

Bronte, can you please post a graph?


----------



## Bronte

Having trouble loading the chart Realist


----------



## Bronte

Will keep trying to load a chart.
SPI opened at 4988 
High 5017
Now 5014

It's a png file......tried saving as a pdf
Message I get: "File system directory is not writable."
Can you help us Joe please?


----------



## Realist

Bronte said:
			
		

> Having trouble loading the chart Realist




No problem.

I was right though wasn't I?   : 

any trades today Bronte?


----------



## nat

question for spi traders ,thinking of opening futures account ,any thoughts any one, good and bad on diff brokers ,interactive looks to be cheapest ,but are they reliable and what costs if computer or internet goes down if have to phone order in or cann one do that ,
  Rung broker one they seem alright and no extra costs for phone orders but bit steep on comission,they said will negotiate if do a lot of contracts ,thats certainly not me at moment and 115$ for web iress a month , Nathan


----------



## Bronte

Hi nat, depends on what *you* require.  
Cheapness, it would have to be IB; 
If you always use Stoplosses, then no problem.


----------



## Bronte

Realist said:
			
		

> I was right though wasn't I?   :
> *any trades today Bronte*?



Yes Realist, "Well done"
We bought 4987 @ 07:51:04


----------



## Realist

Bronte said:
			
		

> Yes Realist, "Well done"
> We bought 4987 @ 07:51:04




You should be in for a good day then today, I suspect it will go up and up for a little while.

Do you ever hold overnight?


----------



## Bronte

Sometimes.  
We might get chance to buy our Gann support again.
Now 4988


----------



## Realist

Yeah the ASX has taken a dip in the past hour.

Sept/October is going to be a rough 2 months I think...


----------



## Bronte

Bought 4987
Now 4991 +4 

We have seen 4985 Low
That is me done for today
Lunchtime now  
4992


----------



## Realist

Bronte said:
			
		

> Lunchtime now




I thought you lived in WA?

It is lunch time for me, but you gotta keep working for the next 2 hours...


----------



## Bobby

nat said:
			
		

> question for spi traders ,thinking of opening futures account ,any thoughts any one, good and bad on diff brokers ,interactive looks to be cheapest ,but are they reliable and what costs if computer or internet goes down if have to phone order in or cann one do that ,
> Rung broker one they seem alright and no extra costs for phone orders but bit steep on comission,they said will negotiate if do a lot of contracts ,thats certainly not me at moment and 115$ for web iress a month , Nathan



 Hello Nat,

I notice that IG Markets offer a mini contract on the SPI  for $5 a point , their costs is a 3 point spread in there favour with no other costs for live data .
There is a 15 point minimum dis for GSLs & low margin of say $90 to play one mini overnight with a GSL, $5 x15 =$75 + 3 =$90.

Hope this may help your choise.

Bob.


----------



## Joe Blow

Bronte said:
			
		

> It's a png file......tried saving as a pdf
> Message I get: "File system directory is not writable."
> Can you help us Joe please?




Bronte,

Try attaching a chart now. It should work.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> We might get chance to buy our Gann support again.
> Now 4988



Thank you Joe


----------



## nat

thanx for replies ,im with cmc at the moment they have 2 point spread and can just do 1 contract worth i $ up to what ever ,the problem with them is even thou the chart goes up and down the same as proper spi price the prices ar enever the same ,plus ive been doing a sfe practise simulator and only having 1 point spread im doing wat better ,so only one way to prove it and thats to do the proper futres .
  Bob is ig markets reflecting the real price do you know ,if it is that would be great i think ,also i think they have dropped down to 2 point spread ,might have to look in to it ,maybe why ageo went to ig .Nathan


----------



## Bobby

nat said:
			
		

> Bob is ig markets reflecting the real price do you know ,if it is that would be great i think ,also i think they have dropped down to 2 point spread ,might have to look in to it ,maybe why ageo went to ig .Nathan



 Nat they say they do follow real price, but offer the mid, after adding the 3 points.
They do have a 2 spread on share CFDS, & 3 points on futures.
Also offer DMA or MM.
No platform costs per month.

Bob.


----------



## Bronte

Just an update to see how our *Gann Support * is going  
Todays "Happy half hour" should be interesting.


----------



## Bronte

New High 5018 
Gap almost closed.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Bought 4987
> Now 4991 +4
> 
> We have seen 4985 Low
> That is me done for today
> Lunchtime now
> 4992




On todays daychart we gave 4987 as *Gann Support  * 
SPI opened at 4988 went down one point ....now 5017 +30
Quote from another thread


----------



## iSPI

It's a very tempting buy... but if I am tracking the heavyweights foot prints
right there is more on the downside to go.

Seems like the market is rotating around 5025


----------



## Bobby

iSPI said:
			
		

> It's a very tempting buy... but if I am tracking the heavyweights foot prints
> right there is more on the downside to go.
> 
> Seems like the market is rotating around 5025



Greetings iSPI,

Not to put you on the spot, but care to have a guess about tomorrows opening ?
Stuffed if I can   

Bob.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> New High 5018
> Gap almost closed.



Daily SPI chart showing GAP, that just had to close


----------



## ice

Why did that gap have to close when the 2 in July didn't?

I'm not stirring, just curious. 

The SPI isn't really my 'thing' but I enjoy this thread.


ice


----------



## iSPI

Bobby said:
			
		

> Greetings iSPI,
> 
> Not to put you on the spot, but care to have a guess about tomorrows opening ?
> Stuffed if I can
> 
> Bob.




Hi Bob

Well Sycom's up.... I expect a Gap up on open some pressure on to close the
gap.

I know I posted last night that I expect a down day but after a bit more of a look and more info last night I think we will have a upwards day today.
Lets see where we open, if I get a chance I'll be looking to buy 2
at 5035.


----------



## iSPI

We have a really interesting chart right now

12th Sept has formed a slight higher bottom to 25th Aug
pretty much a double bottom

8 Sept and 9 Sept a double top

The string of tops in July at 5153

On a 24 hour chart Top 10/7 5174 double top with 6/sept 5170

5141 looks like  a safer buy .... better stop posting and get back to working out  a battle plan for today


----------



## Bronte

ice said:
			
		

> Why did that gap have to close when the 2 in July didn't?
> The SPI isn't really my 'thing' but I enjoy this thread.
> ice



Hi ice, Thank you for the kind words  
We always expect GAPS to close.
Yesterday we were coming off a double bottom.

Today we have Gann Resistance at 5035/7


----------



## Bronte

Sold 5035


----------



## Bronte

Bought 5031 +4


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Today we have Gann Resistance at 5035/7



Opened at 5022
Went up to 5035
The SPI later broke Gann Resistance
If I get chance I will buy 5037 Support


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> The SPI later broke Gann Resistance
> *If I get chance I will buy 5037 Support *



Bought 5037


----------



## Bronte

Now 5041 +4


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Bought 5037



Story so far:


----------



## Bronte

Now 5045 +8 points


----------



## Bobby

iSPI said:
			
		

> Hi Bob
> 
> Well Sycom's up.... I expect a Gap up on open some pressure on to close the
> gap.
> 
> I know I posted last night that I expect a down day but after a bit more of a look and more info last night I think we will have a upwards day today.
> Lets see where we open, if I get a chance I'll be looking to buy 2
> at 5035.




Hello iSPI,
Well you were right about the direction this morning, hope you got in at 5035   

Bob.


----------



## nat

hi all ,question to bronte ,i c your charts are sponsered by man financial ,does that mean thats who you trade through and if you do are you happy with them ?
   Nathan


----------



## Bronte

Hi nat,
Yes we do have an account with Man Fanancial
We used to trade with MF and found them very good.
SPI now 5059 +22


----------



## Bronte

Lunchtime again  
Anything over 20 pts was my morning target.
We are very happy with todays trades.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> *Bought 5037*



*Gann Resistance, became Gann Support  *


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Opened at 5022
> Went up to 5035
> The SPI later broke Gann Resistance
> *If I get chance I will buy 5037 Support *



Well the SPI was kind to us


----------



## nat

well done ,i got a big 5 points first up ,better then nothing i suppose.Hey bronte you said you used to deal with man financial ,does that mean your with another dealer now ?And if you are for what reason if dont mind me asking Nathan


----------



## Bronte

Thank you Nathan  
I will PM some info.


----------



## iSPI

Bobby said:
			
		

> Hello iSPI,
> Well you were right about the direction this morning, hope you got in at 5035
> 
> Bob.




Hi Bob,

I ended buying 1 at 5035 and 1 and 5041, I actually meant 5041 was a safer buy, not 5141 in my earlier post


----------



## Bronte

Well done iSPI...nice trade  
What were your reasons for buying 5035/41 ?


----------



## nat

replied back bronte ,not sure if it worked but ,Nathan


----------



## Bronte

Yes we got it Nathan,  
Thank you for your reply.


----------



## Bronte

Todays SPI chart
Showing *Gann Support *


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Sold 5035



Just looking at todays trading log:
Sold    5035 @ 07:52:01
Bought 5031@ 07:52:47
46 Secs


----------



## Bobby

iSPI said:
			
		

> Hi Bob,
> 
> I ended buying 1 at 5035 and 1 and 5041, I actually meant 5041 was a safer buy, not 5141 in my earlier post



 Well done !, so your still holding ? are you going overnight?

That 5141 did have me a bit confused   

Bob.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Just looking at todays trading log:
> Sold    5035 @ 07:52:01
> Bought 5031@ 07:52:47
> 46 Secs



Thanks Bob  
$100 per contract per minute.


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Just looking at todays trading log:
> Sold    5035 @ 07:52:01
> Bought 5031@ 07:52:47
> 46 Secs




LOL

My fastest winning trade was less than 1 second. I had submitted a bracket order on Euro futures, heard the alarm go off immediately that the trade had been initiated. I then went to check to see if all contracts had traded... no position! What the...

Confused, it wasn't till I looked at the chart that I saw the spike. It was perfect (though unintentional) timing The whole traded completed so fast that the second alarm for the target having been hit was indicernable from the first.

It took me quite a few seconds to realise what had happened LOL

Keep trying to repeat it, but nah... once in a lifetime I reckon.


----------



## iSPI

Bronte said:
			
		

> Well done iSPI...nice trade
> What were your reasons for buying 5035/41 ?




Thanks Bronte,
Well done to you too, especially sneaking in the short from 5035

What were my reasons????
I actually had a buy signal yesterday but some delays on some of my data
meant I didn't get a clearer picture until this morning.

With my system I calculate points that support my signals.
I typically have a get on board early point and safer entry.
5035 was the get in early and 5041 was the safer entry.
Buying 1 at each was just a lower my risk strategy rather then 2 at 5035.

This entry points are my own work, although at times they coincide with
Pivot Points, Gann and Fib  etc 

Regards

iSPI


----------



## iSPI

Bobby said:
			
		

> Well done !, so your still holding ? are you going overnight?
> That 5141 did have me a bit confused
> Bob.




Thanks Bob,

Yes I am holding overnight.
Sorry about the 5141, my typing skills are crap.....


----------



## Bronte

iSPI said:
			
		

> Thanks Bronte,
> Well done to you too, especially sneaking in the short from 5035



You are a breath of fresh air iSPI
Welcome on board


----------



## Bronte

wayneL said:
			
		

> LOL
> My fastest winning trade was less than 1 second.



Well done Wayne  
My record is 10 seconds for 4 points.


----------



## Bobby

Well who got caught long on todays gap down ?


----------



## iSPI

Bobby said:
			
		

> Well who got caught long on todays gap down ?



lol That would be me ....
Well on 1 contract.. I exited 1 last night.
I expected a better day today, however it is Friday and traders get very
very nervous about weekends.


----------



## Bobby

iSPI said:
			
		

> lol That would be me ....
> Well on 1 contract.. I exited 1 last night.
> I expected a better day today, however it is Friday and traders get very
> very nervous about weekends.




Hi iSPI,

I did'nt look at it last night & after sleeping in to 10am it came as a bit of a shock.
Congratulations on having the guts to say you still hold


----------



## Bronte

On Open:
ASX 5070.4
SPI 5030  
-40 Points


----------



## Bronte

Todays SPI chart:


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> On Open:
> ASX 5070.4
> SPI 5030
> -40 Points



Somewhere in this loooong thread we say:
Look for oversold situations, as per this morning +/-40 pts
We always buy these situations... especially if we have Gann support.
We bought off Gann support 5024  -40+ points.Made a couple of points


----------



## iSPI

Bobby said:
			
		

> Hi iSPI,
> 
> I did'nt look at it last night & after sleeping in to 10am it came as a bit of a shock.
> Congratulations on having the guts to say you still hold




Didn't come as a suprise to me Bob,
this was a stay conservative trade only 2 contracts, with stepped entry
and stepped exit. Lets see how the weekend goes.

Regards
iSPI


----------



## iSPI

Bronte said:
			
		

> You are a breath of fresh air iSPI
> Welcome on board




Thanks Bronte.
Good to chat to other traders.


----------



## iSPI

I'm out of my second contract as well.

Exited last night as I have a sneaking suspicion that we have some more
on the downside.


----------



## iSPI

iSPI said:
			
		

> I'm out of my second contract as well.
> 
> Exited last night as I have a sneaking suspicion that we have some more
> on the downside.




Some of my info says we have some more to go on the downside ...yet
my analysis says we may possibly have a bit of a sidewards move
but should have more to the upside. 

I'll let you know if I come up with anything interesting


----------



## Bronte

Which direction will we go?
Daily SPI Chart:


----------



## Pager

Well we are slap bang in the middle of no mans land   , which way will we go ?.

As long as im with the move i dont care


----------



## iSPI

Bronte said:
			
		

> Which direction will we go?
> Daily SPI Chart:




Looks to me so far that we need more on the upside before
another pullback.

Now just how long I don't know it might be only half a day 
but my system is saying we need to go up further before it can come down
and it seems to me there has been alot of selling despite the recent
upwards moves.


----------



## neo

Wow , hi people, this thread has got a new lease on life!
I will be looking to go short first up tomorrow assuming we have a resaonably high open!! (greater than 5045) 
The SPI is now following the cash closely.(expiry this Thursday)
XJO closed at 5036.4.
Sycom closed at 5043... mind you this was a single contract at the close Sat am. All other trading was around 5050.
BHP and RIO took a bit of a hit in NY Friday night as did metals... overall ADRs are slightly negative from Friday.
SPI will either open low or open high and drop.


----------



## Bronte

neo said:
			
		

> Wow , hi people, this thread has got a new lease on life!



Hi neo / iSPI,
Just goes to show that you can not hold a great thread back  
People have certainly tried. Thank you  Joe for staying with us.


----------



## Bobby

iSPI said:
			
		

> Didn't come as a suprise to me Bob,
> this was a stay conservative trade only 2 contracts, with stepped entry
> and stepped exit. Lets see how the weekend goes.
> 
> Regards
> iSPI



Ok iSPI,


What was your exit on the second contract ? 
No pressure   

Bob.


----------



## Pager

Oh the silly things we do !!   , entered a Sell limit order in the Spi this morning @ 5053, got filled and could not figure out why as the market had opened at 50 and had a high of 51   .

I had accidentally sold the November contract   , what a silly boy   , by the time I had it figured, managed to buy it back at 5052, but could have been costly, should see the spreads in that contract !!!!.

Favour the Short side today unless we get above 5051.


----------



## Pager

looks like it may break down today.

Sold 5035, stop @ 41


----------



## Bearman52

Nothing of any consequence to add other than to say its good to see the thread active again,
GOOD TRADING TO EVERYBODY
BM


----------



## Pager

just traded 28 after stalling around 30, stop into 34, looking for the runner, or out for + 1.


----------



## Realist

Yeah it's gonna go down this morning, but may recover this avo. IMHO


----------



## Pager

Stop into 31, alot of activity around this level, if we get above it may push higher otherwise a runner down to 5000 is still on the cards


----------



## Pager

Low is 5022 and a significant level IMO and Pivot.

Will look to cover soon if we dont break 22


----------



## Pager

im out and thats me until the close.

Good luck to anyone else out there trading


----------



## Realist

Pager said:
			
		

> im out and thats me until the close.




Why??    

I reckon a run upwards is in order this afternoon. Maybe starting 1:30pm when people get back from lunch and think, hmm time to buy something...

Seriously.


----------



## Pager

Realist said:
			
		

> Why??
> 
> I reckon a run upwards is in order this afternoon. Maybe starting 1:30pm when people get back from lunch and think, hmm time to buy something...
> 
> Seriously.




I work full time realist, cant be watching the market all day, as much as would love too, my employer may not be that happy, usually the open and somtimes the close or i sneak a look as im doing now   .

Just logged back in and its at my buy level 5051, although ive missed it for now.

Had a bit of a gut feel at 5022 that it was a great buy, but alas didnt take it, so so far today + 4 from the short.


----------



## Pager

trading 56 now, bugger 5 mins earlier i would have been in at 51, had a limit buy placed but only came back to 52.

dont really want to be buying on the pullback if it occurs as it may have been a failed break and had i been in would be going out for a point.

another missed opp, looking for a break of 60 now unless work beckons me back   .


----------



## Pager

just traded 60, but never took it, got to get back to work and the trade dont feel right, plus lunch time and maybe fairly quiet for and hour or 2.


----------



## Bronte

SPI Morning Session
Story so far:
5062 High


----------



## Realist

Yes I had a feeling it'd be going back up, earlier than I thought though.  I'm thinking it'll just go sideways till the US open now.


----------



## Pager

Was looking the wrong way today !, made 4 points on the way down, then missed my buy level around 5050, should have left the buy on stop working, also pulled out of the buy at 5060, then I see we went up to 73.

Another frustrating day on the Spi, always expect the unexpected


----------



## Pager

Going into the close quite strongly, currently 77/78, so on our highs maybe a bit more if we get over 80 on the short side a break below 73/72 may be the go, see how the cash settles


----------



## Pager

long at 80, looking for a quickie


----------



## Pager

out at 86, had a quickie, looking for the break back below 80 now, looking for a close about the same as the cash around 73/74


----------



## Pager

still consolodating around 83/85, looking for a false break higher up to 88 maybe then a push lower, no position at present, still looking for the short, now selling 82 on stop


----------



## Pager

strong market, should have held long for an extra 4 or 5 points.

Hindsight is a wonderfull thing though   .


----------



## wayneL

There are signs of a bottom in the metals/oil futures (short term at least) which will be a positive for the ASX (short term at least) 

A good case for being long for the next few days imo


----------



## Bronte

Todays SPI:


----------



## iSPI

From 16th Sept


			
				iSPI said:
			
		

> Looks to me so far that we need more on the upside before
> another pullback.
> 
> Now just how long I don't know it might be only half a day
> but my system is saying we need to go up further before it can come down
> and it seems to me there has been alot of selling despite the recent
> upwards moves.




I'm weeded out some of my peripherial info it causes to much conflict with my systemic/mechanical signals .

If you look back my first signal for going long was around 13th sept.

Anyway got another buy signal today at 5046 ....
stop loss is at 5021.


----------



## iSPI

I'm out on Sycom @ 5082 
simple case of tomorrow lining up to be the completion of half a time cycle.


----------



## Bronte

Yes iSPI we have a timeframe day today as well.
If this High holds 5105 we will have some fun.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Yes iSPI we have a timeframe day today as well.
> If this High holds 5105 we will have some *fun. *



SPI chart:


----------



## nat

afternoon ,ive been trailing some live futures data and charts and have vol up on the 1 min chart ,just wondering if people use volume on a chart much in trading the spi ,im struggling to make sense of it half the time till after the fact .Nathan


----------



## Magdoran

Is this a false break today?  If this becomes a lower high, this starts to look pretty bearish for the short term.

If so, it may find support, and how it trends from there will tell us a lot about where this index is going.


Mag


----------



## wayneL

Magdoran said:
			
		

> Is this a false break today?  If this becomes a lower high, this starts to look pretty bearish for the short term.
> 
> If so, it may find support, and how it trends from there will tell us a lot about where this index is going.
> 
> 
> Mag




Mon Dieu!!!!

When the banks roll over and die this index in in deep doo-doo.


----------



## Bronte

wayneL said:
			
		

> There are signs of a bottom in the metals/oil futures (short term at least) which will be a positive for the ASX (short term at least)
> A good case for being long for the next few days imo



Interesting comment Wayne


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Yes iSPI we have a timeframe day today as well.
> If this High holds 5105 we will have some *fun*.



_Comment from 10.53 this morning_
Todays SPI chart:


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Interesting comment Wayne




Especially if it tanks


----------



## iSPI

Bronte said:
			
		

> Yes iSPI we have a timeframe day today as well.
> If this High holds 5105 we will have some fun.




I'm no time Guru but this one was as plain as the nose on my face.

Hope you fun !


----------



## iSPI

Despite todays plummet looks like we still a little bit more on the upside.

I'm not buying it though !

I'm waiting for the short.


----------



## Bobby

iSPI said:
			
		

> I'm no time Guru but this one was as plain as the nose on my face.
> 
> Hope you fun !




 

Now for tomorrows opening ~ gap up  ! Just a guess.


----------



## iSPI

Bobby said:
			
		

> Now for tomorrows opening ~ gap up  ! Just a guess.




We got as low as 4997, looks like a get a day off for me today.
No matter what "suppose if" scenarios I put in no entry showing.

The open should interesting for those who get a chance to watch it
and look for at least a quick scalp.


----------



## Bronte

Dow down -14.1    
Sycom down -27 points


----------



## Bronte

wayneL said:
			
		

> Especially if it tanks



SPI is tanking Wayne
5020 Open
Now 4992  
Gapped DOWN


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> 5020 Open
> Now 4992
> *Gapped DOWN*



This is what we call *fun*


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Yes iSPI we have a timeframe day today as well.
> If this High holds 5105 we will have some *fun.*



*GANN Timeframe *  
(issued Dec'05)


----------



## Magdoran

This is just my musings, but…

The current pattern is consistent with my hunch yesterday at close that it was a false break, confirming a very bearish lower high in the context of the pattern.  If the close looks anything like today’s low, this would be very bearish.

The pattern could yield a very fast and strong move down, panic style…. Researching now…

Agree with Wayne’s appraisal.  If the banks go (XFJ seems to be the main sector index that has held the XAO/XJO up) we may see a lot of red…


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> *GANN Timeframe *
> (issued Dec'05)



19th September was our *GANN* Timeframe
21/22/23 September is The Vernal Equinox.


----------



## Magdoran

Bronte said:
			
		

> 19th September was our *GANN* Timeframe
> 21/22/23 September is The Vernal Equinox.



Bronte,


You (or Battman) must have some pretty amazing Gann abilities to find a valid time cycle recently for the XAO/XJO.  None of the time cycles I know in either the weekly or the daily charts are lining up very well.  

There is a bit of correlation, but I would argue that the recent moves in the metals and oil, not to mention US bond markets stuffing up the currency markets, have thrown the previous dominant cycles into disarray for me.

So, what is your prognosis?  I’d say if we can get a decent close below XAO 4927.8 (12/09 low), we may get a brief rally off this new low if it eventuates, then I’d expect a bearish drive down.  If the metals roll over, resources are going to really take a bath…

But, we’ll have to see. 


Magdoran


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> The Vernal Equinox.



Sounds like something you need to take penicillen for


----------



## wayneL

Magdoran said:
			
		

> Bronte,
> 
> 
> You (or Battman) must have some pretty amazing Gann abilities to find a valid time cycle recently for the XAO/XJO.  None of the time cycles I know in either the weekly or the daily charts are lining up very well.
> 
> There is a bit of correlation, but I would argue that the recent moves in the metals and oil, not to mention US bond markets stuffing up the currency markets, have thrown the previous dominant cycles into disarray for me.
> 
> So, what is your prognosis?  I’d say if we can get a decent close below XAO 4927.8 (12/09 low), we may get a brief rally off this new low if it eventuates, then I’d expect a bearish drive down.  If the metals roll over, resources are going to really take a bath…
> 
> But, we’ll have to see.
> 
> 
> Magdoran



Copper is the key IMO.

The banks rising is nothing more than the old "flight to quality".

Once copper, and to a lesser extent the other base metals, break support, it's all over red rover. The banks will get sucked down with the undertow.

I can't help thinking that the ultimate driver is the state of the R/E market. Though an extremey blunt measure, reading between the lines of VI spin could throw off some handy signals.  

******************

There! That should signal the commodity market bottom!! lol Back up the truck boys!


----------



## Bronte

Magdoran said:
			
		

> Bronte,
> You (or Battman) must have some pretty amazing Gann abilities to find a valid time cycle recently for the XAO/XJO.  None of the time cycles I know in either the weekly or the daily charts are lining up very well.
> There is a bit of correlation, but I would argue that the recent moves in the metals and oil, not to mention US bond markets stuffing up the currency markets, have thrown the previous dominant cycles into disarray for me.
> So, what is your prognosis?  I’d say if we can get a decent close below XAO 4927.8 (12/09 low), we may get a brief rally off this new low if it eventuates, then I’d expect a bearish drive down.  If the metals roll over, resources are going to really take a bath…
> Magdoran



Thank you Magdoran, many years of study are paying dividends.
We trade into and out of our *Gann Timeframes * 19th September was a High.


----------



## Bronte

Todays SPI chart:
Opened on its High
Closed on its Low 
There is a bit missing.
5020 Open


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> 19th September was our *GANN* Timeframe
> 21/22/23 September is The Vernal Equinox.




Questions:

Why would the sun passing over the equator effect stock markets.

Does the autumnal equinox also have an effect 

Does it effect other markets eg grains, metals, coffee, cotton, cocoa etc


----------



## Realist

It got beaten like a cheap pinyata today.

I will be interested to see how the US goes tonite...


----------



## wayneL

Realist said:
			
		

> It got beaten like a cheap pinyata today.
> 
> I will be interested to see how the US goes tonite...




FOMC announcement tonight so it will be a bit of a lottery.

Apparently, slowing growth resulting in the fed pausing or lowering is bullish


----------



## Bobby

wayneL said:
			
		

> Sounds like something you need to take penicillen for



 U'mm ~ Yep  for clap & crap  ~ oops


----------



## mit

wayneL said:
			
		

> FOMC announcement tonight so it will be a bit of a lottery.
> 
> Apparently, slowing growth resulting in the fed pausing or lowering is bullish




I know what you mean. A Good economy is bad because it could cause interest rates to rise. Interpretation is all dependant on the markets mood.

I read one Guru saying the rising interest rates are healthy because it is a sign of an economy firing on all cylinders. The Fed only drops rates when it is scared that the economy is heading for a recession.

MIT


----------



## iSPI

iSPI said:
			
		

> We got as low as 4997, looks like a get a day off for me today.
> No matter what "suppose if" scenarios I put in no entry showing.




Homer alert !
I started to run out of space on my chart and shrunk and inner chart with an indicator too small to see. It doesn't give signals very often (so I don't use it very often) but it's got a very high accuracy rate. It gave a short signal yesterday and I missed it !!
:homer:


----------



## Bobby

iSPI said:
			
		

> Homer alert !
> I started to run out of space on my chart and shrunk and inner chart with an indicator too small to see. It doesn't give signals very often (so I don't use it very often) but it's got a very high accuracy rate. It gave a short signal yesterday and I missed it !!
> :homer:



 Haah- iSPI that was amusing  : 

Now how about a punt for tomorrow ?

Have Fun
Bob.


----------



## wayneL

wayneL said:
			
		

> Questions:
> 
> Why would the sun passing over the equator effect stock markets.
> 
> Does the autumnal equinox also have an effect
> 
> Does it effect other markets eg grains, metals, coffee, cotton, cocoa etc




Anyone?


----------



## wayneL

wayneL said:
			
		

> wayneL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Questions:
> 
> Why would the sun passing over the equator effect stock markets.
> 
> Does the autumnal equinox also have an effect
> 
> Does it effect other markets eg grains, metals, coffee, cotton, cocoa etc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone?
Click to expand...


More Questions:

Is the vernal equinox, the autumnal equinox in the southern hemishere? and visa versa? Is the effect of the vernal equinox different from the autumnal equinox, and if so is the difference observable between the two hemispheres.

How is this tradeable?

Last question:

Why doesn't anyone ever answer gann questions?


----------



## Bobby

wayneL said:
			
		

> More Questions:
> 
> Is the vernal equinox, the autumnal equinox in the southern hemishere? and visa versa? Is the effect of the vernal equinox different from the autumnal equinox, and if so is the difference observable between the two hemispheres.
> 
> How is this tradeable?
> 
> Last question:
> 
> Why doesn't anyone ever answer gann questions?


----------



## iSPI

Bobby said:
			
		

> Haah- iSPI that was amusing  :
> Now how about a punt for tomorrow ?
> Have Fun
> Bob.




Here I was saying I was waiting for the short and it was sitting right in front of me.   

I had a chuckle myself but I dare not tell my wife !!

Punt for tomorrow ?

Well, volume was big today open at the high close at the low.

Trend is down, my oscillators are pointing down
so looks like it's down.

We are dipping into the recent channel which may slow it up.

And just so everyone can sleep well tonight and not worry, I have *carefully* checked all indicators on my chart and I see no Homers lurking  : 

Regards
iSPI


----------



## iSPI

wayneL said:
			
		

> More Questions:
> 
> Is the vernal equinox, the autumnal equinox in the southern hemishere? and visa versa? Is the effect of the vernal equinox different from the autumnal equinox, and if so is the difference observable between the two hemispheres.
> 
> How is this tradeable?
> 
> Last question:
> 
> Why doesn't anyone ever answer gann questions?




I'll offer an opinion but I am  no Gann guru

When I followed the astronomy path I made no distinctions between hemispheres.

How are they tradeable? Heck much of it's beyond me with the way the commodities futures traders used them.

I used to use the Solstice and Equinox to watch for time cycles.
I have absolutely no idea why the Equinox in March would cause a top or bottom in our market but it usually offers a great trading day.

I simply watch dates and then price action running into those dates.


----------



## iSPI

wayneL said:
			
		

> Questions:
> 
> Why would the sun passing over the equator effect stock markets.
> 
> Does the autumnal equinox also have an effect
> 
> Does it effect other markets eg grains, metals, coffee, cotton, cocoa etc




Q1 - Absolutely no idea 
       I'm not sure anyone fully understands.
       Why does a full moon sometimes cause unsual behaviour hence the
        saying it must be a full moon?
       I now that planet movements affect weather and tides etc since
       we live in a gigantic magnetic field perhaps we have mood swings and
       dont know. 
Q2 - Yes , not always but frequently

Q3 - this is where equinoxs soltices eclipses etc probably have more of an impact eg lots of eclipses might cause extreme rain falls which impacts
crops on which commodity futures contracts are based


----------



## Magdoran

wayneL said:
			
		

> Why doesn't anyone ever answer gann questions?



Because they’re too busy making money (or looking at the stars) – or trying to get away from their charts and have some fun, stirring up trouble on other threads while the chief Vampire is in his Crypt!


Mag


----------



## iSPI

Magdoran said:
			
		

> Because they’re too busy making money (or looking at the stars) – or trying to get away from their charts and have some fun, stirring up trouble on other threads while the chief Vampire is in his Crypt!
> 
> 
> Mag



 
I'm not a Gann trader or a astrological/astronomy trader
but I usually try and sleep at work and stay up all night
 :batman:


----------



## wayneL

iSPI said:
			
		

> Why does a full moon sometimes cause unsual behaviour hence the
> saying it must be a full moon?



Well yes this is most certainly true. Full moons do affect peoples behaviour.

I have to compete with those freakin' werewolves on a full moon


----------



## wayneL

Magdoran said:
			
		

> Because they’re too busy making money (or looking at the stars) – or trying to get away from their charts and have some fun, stirring up trouble on other threads while the chief Vampire is in his Crypt!
> 
> 
> Mag



Well.... don't vampires deserve a little fun every now and again? I mean Its hard work trading, plus the normal vampire chores... seducing hot women, sorting blood types, avoiding nasty people with wooden stakes  (Don't have to worry about silver bullets since Johnny took everyones gun away) Keeping track of the whereabouts of Sarah-Michelle etc... all between sundown and sunup


----------



## Magdoran

wayneL said:
			
		

> Well.... don't vampires deserve a little fun every now and again? I mean Its hard work trading, plus the normal vampire chores... seducing hot women, sorting blood types, avoiding nasty people with wooden stakes  (Don't have to worry about silver bullets since Johnny took everyones gun away) Keeping track of the whereabouts of Sarah-Michelle etc... all between sundown and sunup



I kind of liked the "Spike" character played by Masters - always cracked me up!


Mag


----------



## neo

> Well, volume was big today open at the high close at the low



.

Last few days high volume is all related to rolls. I wouldn't be taking this a an indication of high supply or demand. Tomorrow is APU06 expiry........ I will be sitting on the sidelines. I find expiry days and the days leading up to them to be extremely unpredictable and volatile.


----------



## iSPI

neo said:
			
		

> .
> 
> Last few days high volume is all related to rolls. _I* wouldn't be taking this a an indication of high supply or demand. Tomorrow is APU06 expiry*_........ I will be sitting on the sidelines. I find *expiry days * and the days leading up to them to be *extremely unpredictable and volatile*.




*Totally agree*, I heard open interest was also a very good thing to track.
I knew someone who got very excited when they first heard this until I told them to check out open interest and volume around the 15th of each quarter.

I was just having a punt for fun...


----------



## wayneL

wayneL said:
			
		

> FOMC announcement tonight so it will be a bit of a lottery.
> 
> Apparently, slowing growth resulting in the fed pausing or lowering is bullish




Groundhog day:

Well the gutless, testoterone deficient, panty-waisted, cabalist fed has held rates again.... as expected by all and sundry.

There wasn't even any post announcement excitement on the futures contrary to what is usual  Dullsville!

Methinks the bulls are running out of ammunition. It simply couldn't be due to rational analysis..... no couldn't be that, we'd be 400 S&P points lower.


----------



## spitrader1

neo said:
			
		

> .
> 
> Last few days high volume is all related to rolls. I wouldn't be taking this a an indication of high supply or demand. Tomorrow is APU06 expiry........ I will be sitting on the sidelines. I find expiry days and the days leading up to them to be extremely unpredictable and volatile.



has anyone else read the SFE announcement in regards to today?? if not here it is for todays action, should be fun, paticularly in the cash market.

As market users will be aware, the September 2006 expiry of the SFE SPI 200™ Index Futures contract takes place on Thursday, 21 September 2006 at 12:00 noon.  The settlement price for this contract is drawn from the Special Opening Quotation of the underlying S&P/ASX 200 Index, which in turn is derived from the first traded price in each component stock in this Index on the contract’s Last Trading Day.

In light of current futures holdings and potential strategies surrounding expiry, SFE wishes to ensure market awareness of the following factors.

As part of its market operator licence which imposes front-line market supervisory authority and obligations to ensure that its markets are fair, orderly and transparent, Exchange Surveillance personnel monitor trading activity and holdings approaching expiry, and initiate contact with relevant parties to gain adequate assurance as to traders’ intentions and understanding of their obligation to trade in a manner consistent with the fair, orderly and transparent operation of SFE’s markets.  As a result of a number of such discussions in recent days, the Exchange has gained the necessary assurances regarding traders’ intentions and strategies in meeting these obligations.

SFE recognises, however, that circumstances particular to the September contract have led to some traders accumulating larger-than-usual book holdings which they may seek to reduce by permitting futures positions to expire and physical contracts to be traded to offset risk.  As a result, SFE wishes to advise traders that the aforementioned market activity has the potential to lead to a larger level of liquidity being provided in physical equity transactions during tomorrow’s ASX opening price auction than has been seen at recent expiries.

SFE wishes to remind SPI 200™ Index Futures traders who are also active in other markets that they should comply with all rules and relevant guidance regarding trading on those markets, especially through the expiry process.


----------



## Bronte

Dow +72.3 overnight
Dec Sycom SPI 5019 Close
We switch with the volume


----------



## nat

Bronte said:
			
		

> Dow +72.3 overnight
> Dec Sycom SPI 5019 Close
> We switch with the volume




Hi there bronte ,does switch with the vol mean whatever way it goes up or down with the most vol thats the way you will trade ?

How are you determining this off of course of sales ,vol on chart ,depth?
Nathan


----------



## Bronte

Hi Nathan,
We have a lot to do this morning.....
Sept06 expires today at noon.
Overnight volume was higher on the Dec contract;
so we are happy to change over now.
Hope this explains...have to go now,good trading


----------



## spitrader1

Bronte said:
			
		

> Hi Nathan,
> We have a lot to do this morning.....
> Sept06 expires today at noon.
> Overnight volume was higher on the Dec contract;
> so we are happy to change over now.
> Hope this explains...have to go now,good trading



just watch that dec spi gooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


----------



## nat

I dont know what cmc aussie 200 is trying to follow ,its not lining up to much with anything at the moment.Is an interesting day 
Nathan


----------



## Bronte

It sure did  
5028 Open
Found support at 5015
Soon went to 5055  +40 points 

Sept contract....range bound 5015/19


----------



## Bronte

Overbought at 5055
ASX 5007.3 High

Hope you can now see why we change with volume Nathan


----------



## spitrader1

Bronte said:
			
		

> Overbought at 5055
> ASX 5007.3 High
> 
> Hope you can now see why we change with volume Nathan



bronte the spi reached an intraday high so far of 5055 at 10:05:13, and you post some 3  minutes later its overbought, do you understand why I sometimes question you?? Im not insighting a riot BTW


----------



## Bronte

No problem spitrader  
We have often said, in this thread
look for a *discount/premium of 40 or more points*.
My post was purely an observation.


----------



## Bronte

This thread: 'Trading the SPI' was started by Battman64 
on 13th July 2005 at 07.31AM
A place for traders to discuss the SPI
Observations / Predictions / TA etc

Not sure how all this 'Live" trading started   
Questioning / not believing / Who really cares?

The Vernal Equinox was discussed in detail last September.
Many questions were answered back then


----------



## spitrader1

Bronte said:
			
		

> This thread: 'Trading the SPI' was started by Battman64
> on 13th July 2005 at 07.31AM
> A place for traders to discuss the SPI
> Observations / Predictions / TA etc
> 
> Not sure how all this 'Live" trading started
> Questioning / not believing / Who really cares?
> 
> The Vernal Equinox was discussed in detail last September.
> Many questions were answered back then



all im saying is bronte that posting "55's were over bought" when it happened in trading terms, last century, is not really helping people. I would of thought something along the lines of a forum on what they think may happen in the future, not what has already occured in the past, would be of more benefit....for the record, i agree with you, and the market is 49-50 now and i still think its overbought. There you go, im short at 50, see how i go...


----------



## spitrader1

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> all im saying is bronte that posting "55's were over bought" when it happened in trading terms, last century, is not really helping people. I would of thought something along the lines of a forum on what they think may happen in the future, not what has already occured in the past, would be of more benefit....for the record, i agree with you, and the market is 49-50 now and i still think its overbought. There you go, im short at 50, see how i go...



bought back at 41


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Overbought at 5055
> ASX 5007.3 High



Please read the post again spitrader  
I was *NOT* claiming that I had sold 5055
Just an observation........maybe useful for any
SPI trader that *WAS* holding a position.
That is all......


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> This thread: 'Trading the SPI' was started by Battman64
> on 13th July 2005 at 07.31AM
> A place for traders to discuss the SPI
> Observations / Predictions / TA etc
> 
> Not sure how all this 'Live" trading started
> Questioning / not believing / *Who really cares*?
> 
> The Vernal Equinox was discussed in detail last September.
> Many questions were answered back then



Not sure how all this 'Live' trading started. :headshake 

SPI now 5030


----------



## nat

dont want to take sides but i didnt read anything into your over bought post , just seemed an observation to me .
Nice little trade you did there spi trader .Nathan


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Please read the post again spitrader
> I was *NOT* claiming that I had sold 5055
> Just an observation........maybe useful for any
> SPI trader that *WAS* holding a position.
> That is all......



We have done *many* 'Live trades" here.
*Unquestionably 'Live"*  
We do not hear from you...whoever you are. 
Now out of nowhere you question an observation?????
We are very very confused  
SPI now 5021


----------



## spitrader1

Bronte said:
			
		

> We have done *many* 'Live trades" here.
> *Unquestionably 'Live"*
> We do not hear from you...whoever you are.
> Now out of nowhere you question an observation?????
> We are very very confused
> SPI now 5021



"we" are you sudddenly speaking for the whole forum?? I wasnt asking you to do a live trade. all i was saying is that making an onservation which is three minutes old is useless. its hindsight that no one can use.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> We have done *many* 'Live trades" here.
> *Unquestionably 'Live"*
> We do not hear from you...whoever you are.
> Now out of nowhere you question an observation?????
> We are very very confused
> SPI now 5021



Dec06 SPI Chart:


----------



## spitrader1

nat said:
			
		

> dont want to take sides but i didnt read anything into your over bought post , just seemed an observation to me .
> Nice little trade you did there spi trader .Nathan



thanks nathan.....im not trying to have an argument im simply stating that i dont think hindsight statements are worth anything. saying the spi is over bought three minutes ago is like saying "i really should have bought those BHP 15 years ago when they were at 5 bucks". its the same thing. any delay time delay observations unless they are pointing towards something in the future ie, if bronte had of said "55's are over bought, i think if they get there again it may be a good resistance level and an opportuntiy to go short"...


----------



## Bronte

Charts are useless to *you* then?


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Charts are useless to *you* then?



Discussing what happened is useless to *you* then?
Reading books is useless to *you* then?   
Learning from the past is useless to *you* then?


----------



## spitrader1

Bronte said:
			
		

> Charts are useless to *you* then?



no because some charts may give future direction...saying "55's are over bought" does not, if its three minutes after the fact...you are making something seem complex, wich is not....somehting you seem to be able to do quite well.


----------



## spitrader1

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> no because some charts may give future direction...saying "55's are over bought" does not, if its three minutes after the fact...you are making something seem complex, wich is not....somehting you seem to be able to do quite well.



anyways boys and girls, im off to do some real work, may the spi be with you.


----------



## Bronte

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> bronte the spi reached an intraday high so far of 5055 at 10:05:13, and you post some 3  minutes later its overbought, do you understand why I sometimes question you?? *Im not insighting a riot BTW*



Yes you are spitrader


----------



## spitrader1

Bronte said:
			
		

> Yes you are spitrader



apparently so!


----------



## Bronte

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> anyways boys and girls, im off to do some real work, may the spi be with you.



cya :bekloppt: 
spitrader
spitrader1
spitrader2.....


----------



## tech/a

Thought Id have a squizz over here after watching the ASX drop 30 points on my screen in an hr.

Low and behold Bronte called over bought near enough to the turn---didnt say he traded it but was there in black and white.


----------



## Realist

tech/a said:
			
		

> Thought Id have a squizz over here after watching the ASX drop 30 points on my screen in an hr.
> 
> Low and behold Bronte called over bought near enough to the turn---didnt say he traded it but was there in black and white.





I disagree. 

And I believe it was obvious the SPI would dip after an initial rise with the ASX rise as today is when contracts are fulfilled, people need to get out.  

The ASX dipping is another matter, and I'm not sure why it did.


----------



## tech/a

> I disagree.




As you would.

Still "Dipping"

Realist do you think the SPI and the ASX are correlated??
What is their relationship,I'm a bit vague on this I'm interested in YOUR comments.


----------



## Realist

tech/a said:
			
		

> As you would.
> 
> Still "Dipping"
> 
> Realist do you think the SPI and the ASX are correlated??
> What is their relationship,I'm a bit vague on this I'm interested in YOUR comments.




Obviously they are correlated..    

However today the SPI was in for a dip today of all days - the last day of trading quarter. People jumping out of positions.


----------



## tech/a

Ohhhhh


----------



## nioka

Realist said:
			
		

> Obviously they are correlated..
> 
> However today the SPI was in for a dip today of all days - the last day of trading quarter. People jumping out of positions.



As I have just asked on another thread, is there any relation to the day of the week to prices.


----------



## spitrader1

tech/a said:
			
		

> Thought Id have a squizz over here after watching the ASX drop 30 points on my screen in an hr.
> 
> Low and behold Bronte called over bought near enough to the turn---didnt say he traded it but was there in black and white.



of course he did....hehehee


----------



## Realist

nioka said:
			
		

> As I have just asked on another thread, is there any relation to the day of the week to prices.




Yeah I do not know, but I am guessing Tuesday is when crashes happen, because a big fall will happen on a Monday in the US.

Friday afternoons are weak as traders sometimes don't want to hold over weekends.

Afternoon's are often stronger than mornings (after the initial open that is).

Just guessing mind...


----------



## nat

tech/a said:
			
		

> As you would.
> 
> Still "Dipping"
> 
> Realist do you think the SPI and the ASX are correlated??
> What is their relationship,I'm a bit vague on this I'm interested in YOUR comments.



Just my 2 cents worth ,i think they are correlated ,the thing is if a big buyer buys some futures to go long he then wants market to go up as well they so i think they buy in the top20 as well ,quite often i c on cmc the same time at a support level i have the top 20 stocks and indicies up and the flurry of activity that goes with holding on support and then a rise happens together all so quick like in matter of seconds ,how they do it is beyond me but 15 out of 20 stocks all turn at same time must be some big money floating around.Nathan


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> *Overbought at 5055*
> ASX 5007.3 High



Todays Dec06 SPI Chart:


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> This thread: 'Trading the SPI' was started by Battman64
> on 13th July 2005 at 07.31AM
> A place for traders to *discuss* the SPI
> Observations / Predictions / TA etc
> *Not sure how all this 'Live" trading started
> Questioning / not believing / Who really cares?  *



We are happy just calling the SPI as we see it (Time & Price)
If it takes me three whole minutes to post then "So be it" 
As you can see from the above chart, some people could find
our commentary on the SPI useful.
'Sell 5050 Stoploss 5056' etc


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> This thread: 'Trading the SPI' was started by Battman64
> on 13th July 2005 at 07.31AM
> A place for traders to discuss the SPI
> Observations / Predictions / TA etc



The secret is out... Battman = Bronte. Further obfuscation is pointless  



			
				Bronte said:
			
		

> Not sure how all this 'Live" trading started
> Questioning / not believing / Who really cares?



Many do care. I have pointed out the ground rules many times. But for the record, your 55 overbought call was fine, a trade was not claimed. 3 minutes is also an acceptable lapse because of typing up/ posting etc.

Also for the record. I think that type of observational post is great. Claiming trades really sets up arguements. Calling trades live is best done on chat IMO where it is *truely live.



			
				Bronte said:
			
		

> The Vernal Equinox was discussed in detail last September.
> Many questions were answered back then



Link?


----------



## Bronte

Thank you Wayne


----------



## Joe Blow

wayneL said:
			
		

> Calling trades live is best done on chat IMO where it is *truely live.




I have even set up a 'Trading the SPI' room in ASF Chat for this very purpose. As yet it really hasn't seen much use but that could be because most members are unaware of its existance. Perhaps it will see some more action now that I have brought it to people's attention.


----------



## Bronte

Thank you Joe


----------



## happytrader

wayneL said:
			
		

> The secret is out... Battman = Bronte. Further obfuscation is pointless
> 
> 
> Many do care. I have pointed out the ground rules many times. But for the record, your 55 overbought call was fine, a trade was not claimed. 3 minutes is also an acceptable lapse because of typing up/ posting etc.
> 
> Also for the record. I think that type of observational post is great. Claiming trades really sets up arguements. Calling trades live is best done on chat IMO where it is *truely live.
> 
> 
> Link?




Just an observation. From where I sit you seem to be giving the impression Bronte is responsible to and for people and their 'feelings' 

It looks like bullying to me. Would you be so intent on questioining Brontes every trade if her name was Bronson?

Cheers
Happytrader


----------



## wayneL

happytrader said:
			
		

> Just an observation. From where I sit you seem to be giving the impression Bronte is responsible to and for people and their 'feelings' All adults and traders are responsible for what they put in their own heads. It looks like bullying to me. Would you be so intent on questioining Brontes every trade if her name was Bronson?
> 
> Cheers
> Happytrader




HT

????

90% of that post was in full support of Battman/Bronte's posting today. I haven't commented on any trades for 2-3 weeks. I have always shown support when live trades are called.

I am struggling to see where you are coming from.

And who's Bronson?

Cheers


----------



## Bronte

Thank you for your support happytrader
Right now it is *very * much appreciated


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Thank you for your support happytrader
> Right now it is *very * much appreciated




You feel my post was bullying you? I was 90% defending you.

You have a very twisted sense of reality Battman.


----------



## Bronte

No Wayne,
We are *very* happy with your support also....
As I posted earlier "Thank you"


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> No Wayne,
> We are *very* happy with your support also....
> As I posted earlier "Thank you"




OK - Retracted


----------



## happytrader

Hi Wayne

I was talking about Brontes intention when starting the thread where she specified it was 

_"a place for traders to discuss the Spi Observations/Predictions/Ta etc. "Not really sure how all this 'live' trading started? Questioning/Not believing/Who really cares?"_

By the tone of this thread at times I feel that Bronte is almost being forced to provide proof.

Trading is often a solitary business with lots of downtime and thats why having a place like ASF where everyone at all levels of trading is welcome is great - tyre kickers included.

Many of us are already doing battle in the market and in business without having to prove ourselves and battle with each other here in our safehaven ASF.

Cheers
Happytrader


----------



## wayneL

HT

At 2.29AM US EST I bought 100 6EZ6 @ 1.2758 and sold @1.2810 at 6:40AM

$6,500 USD profit in a little over 4 hours.

You might think thats great, but there is one complication... it is entirely fictitous. Now I'm not accusing anyone of anything here, just using a bit of hyperbole to demonstrate a point. Anything can be written after the fact.

And it doesn't serve any purpose.

A far more educational approach would be somethimg like "There was great support at the pivot (or whatever) and a good 50 point trade there if you caught it" or something along those lines.

This is indeed what Bronte did with the overbought at 55 call. Though is was called for all intents and purposes "live", this could even be called in hindsite for educational purposes, so people can recognise the pattern when it turns up again.

This sort of thing is very useful for all.

Attaching trades to the calls, if late, opens up a can of worms because of the ease for which this can be done fraudulently (again not accusing anyone here) and the potential for doubt, questioning, ill-will etc.

This is the great thing with chat... live is live. and for those who wish to call trades, chat is by far the best place to do it... or even call it on chat live and post it in hindsite on the forum, so long as the call was seen by others, that is fine too, because integrity cannot be questioned and argument not possible.

Hope that clears that up.

Cheers


----------



## iSPI

I have an order in long 2 @ 5026


----------



## Bronte

DOW down a nice round -80 points overnight.
Sycom saw 4962 Low


----------



## Paulie

Hi Bronte,

I've been following your posts for a while - keep up the great work.

Any Gann support/resistance levels for today?

With Wall St weakening, I think we will be falling today.

Regards,

Paul.


----------



## Bronte

Thank you Paulie  
Welcome to ASF.
Certainly agree with your observation
A 60 mins chart to start the day


----------



## Bronte

Paulie said:
			
		

> Hi Bronte,
> I've been following your posts for a while - keep up the great work.
> Any Gann support/resistance levels for today?
> With Wall St weakening,* I think we will be falling today*.
> Regards,
> Paul.



Nice call Paulie,
Opened at 4981  4984 High
Nice fall to 4950


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Certainly agree with your observation



Nice start to the day


----------



## tech/a

Post 1473

Just appear to be possible resistance.
Where is and or why are these areas labelled "Gann" resistance.


----------



## BudFox

*SPI levels and succesfull short term trading*

Hi Guys,

I have just finished reading many of your posts. Have been looking for a website like this for months. I follow a report called Index Select. In a nutshell, this report has more detailed analysis on the SPI than any other report or method I have seen. I bought the SPI at 4953 today and got out at 4987, these guys call it well. It is written by a pro trader. Worth having a look at them if you need accurate levels and short term trend calls.
www.spitraders.com is their website.


----------



## wayneL

*Re: SPI levels and succesfull short term trading*



			
				BudFox said:
			
		

> Hi Guys,
> 
> I have just finished reading many of your posts. Have been looking for a website like this for months. I follow a report called Index Select. In a nutshell, this report has more detailed analysis on the SPI than any other report or method I have seen. I bought the SPI at 4953 today and got out at 4987, these guys call it well. It is written by a pro trader. Worth having a look at them if you need accurate levels and short term trend calls.
> www.spitraders.com is their website.




It looks like a derivative of Frank Dilernias method.


----------



## Frank D

"In a nutshell, this report has more detailed analysis on the SPI than any other report or method I have seen."


The person behind Index select was coached by myself since the start of this year. He turned his personal trading account from 20k to over 100k in 6 months and he started Index select with the backing of others

All the work and analysis in any of their reports is all based on the AMT model developed by myself. He subscribes to my reports.

Have a look at the website and the wordings.

The reason they put out a BUY at the lows today was the 5-day dynamic lows in the market @4953.

*Frank Dilernia*

Note: I don't have any association with Index Select


----------



## Frank D

compare what and compare who with?

Frank


----------



## wayneL

Frank D said:
			
		

> All the work and analysis in any of their reports is all based on the AMT model developed by myself. He subscribes to my reports.
> 
> *Have a look at the website and the wordings.*




hehe - a dead giveaway


----------



## Bronte

Since this mornings action we have traded in a very tight range.
What trading opportunities will "Happy half Hour" provide?
A break to the upside maybe?  
*Gann Resistance * starting at 4997


----------



## tech/a

Frank Cant you protect your knowledge? From being offered?

Some of my competitors are people I have trained (different field).


----------



## tech/a

> Gann Resistance starting at 4997




*Ignoramous*,its a civil question presented in a civil way.

Whats the difference Gann resistance--normal resistance.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Since this mornings action we have traded in a very tight range.
> What trading opportunities will "Happy half Hour" provide?
> A break to the upside maybe?
> *Gann Resistance * starting at 4997



Well we have broken out to the upside 4984  
Just a reminder tech/a, if the above postings are for me.
You are on my "Ignore List" (the only one...presently)


----------



## Realist

I'll do a live (imaginary) trade. Buy now!!

Sell Monday 11:30am.

Yes hold over the weekend and no stops... 

Ah well the most I can lose is $0 in real money.

Anyway, keep up the posts Bronte, I enjoy your graphs!!


Have a good weekend dudes, I'm off to buy beer and meat - it is Footy night in Sydney 2 games on 2 channels, and the cricket on the other channel.


----------



## tech/a

> You are on my "Ignore List" (the only one...presently)




*Fair enough keep it that way.*

Anyone else capable of throwing light on the question.


----------



## Bronte

tech/a said:
			
		

> *Ignoramous*,its a civil question presented in a civil way.
> Whats the difference Gann resistance--normal resistance.



This is great tech/a  
Ignoramus...ignorant person. (spelling)
Ignorant.....lacking knowledge; behaving rudely through not knowing good manners. (asking silly questions)
Calling me an ignoramous......knowing full well you are on my "ignore list"
ROTFLMAO    
A friend called and said that I should take a look....glad I did  
You crack us up tech/a


----------



## wayneL

tech/a said:
			
		

> Whats the difference Gann resistance--normal resistance.




This is a fair question asked many times from many people....never an answer.

Why?


----------



## Bronte

We do not really understand the question??  
What is normal resistance Wayne?


----------



## tech/a

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistance_(technical_analysis)

The difference between this and GANN resistance/support is????


----------



## Bronte

In that case....
There is no difference between Gann resistance and normal resistance.
Now please tech/a I really do not want to read your posts.
Why???
As a moderator of rc you had us banned for no reason.
You have accused us of sending abusive emails/posts...not true.
You have called us liars on a few occasions.....unjustified
As far as we know...you haven't honoured your bet ($1000 to ASF)
I could go on.........


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Since this mornings action we have traded in a very tight range.
> What trading opportunities will "Happy half Hour" provide?
> A break to the upside maybe?
> *Gann Resistance * starting at 4997



Now 4993 High


----------



## tech/a

> There is no difference between Gann resistance and normal resistance.




As I thought.

Carry on.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> *In that case....
> There is no difference between Gann resistance and normal resistance.*
> Now please tech/a I really do not want to read your posts.
> Why???
> As a moderator of rc you had us banned for no reason.
> You have accused us of sending abusive emails/posts...not true.
> You have called us liars on a few occasions.....unjustified
> As far as we know...you haven't honoured your bet ($1000 to ASF)
> I could go on.........



In that case.....


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Since this mornings action we have traded in a very tight range.
> What trading opportunities will "Happy half Hour" provide?
> A break to the upside maybe?
> *Gann Resistance * starting at 4997



Well we picked the break to the upside. 
Ran out of legs in the end  
Today SPI chart:


----------



## Sean K

tech/a said:
			
		

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistance_(technical_analysis)
> 
> The difference between this and GANN resistance/support is????




Good link Tech/a

If there was such a thing, wouldn't Gann resistance have something to do with time? I don't think Gann and 'normal' resistance/support can be compared unless Gann has an absolute direct correlation to price action. If it did, then anyone who studied Gann, and applied it, would be well and truelly retired, floating around on a yacht through the Caribbean......


----------



## Bronte

> *Gann Resistance * starting at 4997



For any SPI trader that may be interested....
We have seen 4998 High on Sycom
Now 4988 Phew!


----------



## Bronte

Dropping very quickly
Now 4982


----------



## tech/a

kennas said:
			
		

> Good link Tech/a
> 
> If there was such a thing, wouldn't Gann resistance have something to do with time? I don't think Gann and 'normal' resistance/support can be compared unless Gann has an absolute direct correlation to price action. If it did, then anyone who studied Gann, and applied it, would be well and truelly retired, floating around on a yacht through the Caribbean......




The point I'm making here is that the Trading of the SPI demonstration here is simply swing trading of support and resistance.
Gann analysis has no bearing on trading decisions.

Gann resistance---give me a break!


----------



## Bronte

kennas said:
			
		

> If there was such a thing, wouldn't Gann resistance have something to do with time? I don't think Gann and 'normal' resistance/support can be compared unless Gann has an absolute direct correlation to price action. If it did, then anyone who studied Gann, and applied it, would be well and truelly retired, floating around on a yacht through the Caribbean......



This is a good post kennas....now you are thinking.
Battman retired at 40 years old & the Caribbean is very nice


----------



## Bronte

Sell: 'Gann Resistance'
Buy: 'Gann Support'
Hide your stoploss.
Make money $$$$
Simple really


----------



## Joe Blow

BudFox said:
			
		

> I am here to meet with new traders and discuss trading. I am not here to argue about things.




Glad to hear it Bud. Welcome to ASF.

Since you are not here to argue about things I have taken the liberty of removing some posts in this thread that could appear to some to be argumentative.   

Looking forward to your contributions.


----------



## sails

tech/a said:
			
		

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistance_(technical_analysis)
> 
> The difference between this and GANN resistance/support is????



I am no expert in Gann having only learned the basics with SITM a few years ago, but did learn enough to understand that Gann levels usually mean a confluence of various calculations and not just previous tops and bottoms as in Wikipedia.  To name just a few, the calculations may include: percentages of highs and lows, percentages of previous ranges, squaring of time and price, and some incorporate the use of various Gann squares, etc, etc...

To me the word "Gann" is simply an adjective describing the type of analysis that has been used to derive that particular support or resistance area.  Just like "Elliot" is used to describe  his wave system and "Darvas" is another - and we accept that specific analysis and rules have been applied.

Hope that helps!


----------



## Bobby

Bronte said:
			
		

> This is a good post kennas....now you are thinking.
> Battman retired at 40 years old & the Caribbean is very nice



 Just can't work it out ? Then why bother posting ?

I'm here to pick up more knowledge   

Cheers Bob.


----------



## wayneL

Battman said:
			
		

> Retired



LOLOLOLOL That word is now hopelessly cliche'd and is not used with its true meaning.

Blame it on the "network marketers". 

"Retired", means quit your job to chase@rsing around, furiously presenting "business plans" to sucke..... I mean prospects, organising "business meeting", "seminars" etc etc etc

This definition has permeated the non-brainwashed section of society as well.

Sorry, but trading for a living and teaching Gann is NOT retired. It's running a business. Running a business is not retired.

When you have at least 50k in dividends turning up in your letter box after tax, and you can sit on your @rse all day if you want.... that is retired.


----------



## Bronte

Of course you are right Wayne  
If Battman 'works' two hours a day
doing what he loves then he is not fully retired.


----------



## Bronte

When you get out of bed in the morning...
you have to do something Wayne 
We do not trade for a living.
Don't need to


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Of course you are right Wayne
> If Battman 'works' two hours a day
> doing what he loves then he is not fully retired.




Thats all most futures traders do.

The rest of the time is spent BSing on the internet LOL

My trades are in for the evening, I'll check the grains when they open. Have a look near the close... thats it.

Nothing unusual there:band


----------



## wayneL

Whenever asked for my profession, I just write "unemployed" LOL


----------



## Bobby

wayneL said:
			
		

> Thats all most futures traders do.
> 
> The rest of the time is spent BSing on the internet LOL
> 
> My trades are in for the evening, I'll check the grains when they open. Have a look near the close... thats it.
> 
> Nothing unusual there:band



  

Loved the Bsing part !


----------



## Bronte

You have to feel sorry for 50+
That still work..................
B/S on forums like this one.
At least Bobby admits he knows nothing.


----------



## Bronte

sails said:
			
		

> I am no expert in Gann having only learned the basics with SITM a few years ago, but did learn enough to understand that Gann levels usually mean a confluence of various calculations and not just previous tops and bottoms as in Wikipedia.  To name just a few, the calculations may include: percentages of highs and lows, percentages of previous ranges, squaring of time and price, and some incorporate the use of various Gann squares, etc, etc...
> To me the word "Gann" is simply an adjective describing the type of analysis that has been used to derive that particular support or resistance area.  Just like "Elliot" is used to describe  his wave system and "Darvas" is another - and we accept that specific analysis and rules have been applied.
> Hope that helps!



Nice post Margaret


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> You have to feel sorry for 50+
> That still work..................
> B/S on forums like this one.
> At least Bobby admits he knows nothing.




Everything is BS. 

Many philosophers even question the nature of reality. Some theosophists even consider time an illusion.

Sergeant SchÃ¼ltz was wiser than we all thought... "I know nothing... NOTHING!!!!"


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> You have to feel sorry for 50+
> That still work..................
> B/S on forums like this one.
> At least Bobby admits he knows nothing.




What is old?

What is work?

What is BS?

What is something?

It is all smoke and mirrors : 

That's my cosmic musing for the night


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Sell: 'Gann Resistance'
> Buy: 'Gann Support'
> Hide your stoploss.
> Make money $$$$
> Simple really



Gann Resistance 4997
Sycom High 4998
Now 4965


----------



## Bronte

You have to admit Wayne that they work *extremely * well.
This thread if full of successful Gann Support / Resistances.


----------



## Bobby

Bronte said:
			
		

> You have to feel sorry for 50+
> That still work..................
> B/S on forums like this one.
> At least Bobby admits he knows nothing.




Yep I know nothing   

But that must be  why I'm doing Ok   

Thanks battman !


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> You have to admit Wayne that they work *extremely * well.
> This thread if full  of successful Gann Support / Resistances.




So does Radges mechanical system. Lots of things "work". Classic swing trading works as well.

I seen Frank trade live.. his system works very well.

I have MIRC with financialchat, there are some real gurus on there... all do somthing a little different and their trades are all live.

All use a form of dynamic supp/res (e.g pivots, Gann, "binomials", fib etc)

Gann is not unique


----------



## wayneL

All I want to know right now is when to cut this ER2 trade loose... nearly at s2 atm... also we've done pretty close to ATR as well


tsk tsk "I know NOTHING"


----------



## Bronte

wayneL said:
			
		

> All use a form of dynamic supp/res (e.g pivots, Gann, "binomials", fib etc)
> Gann is not unique



Agreed Wayne,
It is the trader not the tool.
Gann works very well for us


----------



## wayneL

Bobby said:
			
		

> Yep I know nothing
> 
> But that must be  why I'm doing Ok
> 
> Thanks battman !




Bobby,

[dichotomic esotoric BS]sometimes the more you know the less you know  [/dichotomic esotoric BS]

K.I.S.S.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> You have to admit Wayne that they work *extremely * well.
> This thread if full of successful Gann Support / Resistances.



No one is disputing this


----------



## Bobby

wayneL said:
			
		

> Bobby,
> 
> [dichotomic esotoric BS]sometimes the more you know the less you know  [/dichotomic esotoric BS]
> 
> K.I.S.S.



 Yes thanks Wayne, its the obstruse & secret obscure initiates that are restricted To gann followers ? bronte/battman = dichotomic  : 

He he Bob


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Agreed Wayne,
> It is the trader not the tool.
> Gann works very well for us




Do you see the incongruity in this statement?

It is the trader not the tool. It's *NOT* the tool.

Gann works very well for us. It *IS* the tool.

:homer:


----------



## wayneL

Standard Floor Trader Pivots work too  \/


----------



## yogi-in-oz

Hi folks,

Actually September 22 is the HALFWAY mark through 
Gann's trading year, as the four seasons marked 
the major divisions in his trading year.

Today, Gannsters are watching US markets closely
for a number of reasons:

Firstly, some major  Gann time cycles comes into play,
from other significant market lows.

Next, due to the 19-year Metonic cycle, we have a 
solar eclipse today (in South America?), just as we
had on this day in 1987 ..... !~!

In 1987, the market crash came in October ... this year,
we will be looking for news of a significant event, around
23-24 October 2006 (water-related, on USA west coast???) ...

As previously posted, in the event of a crash, we will be 
looking for lows around 07 November 2006, with another test
of the lows, about 17 November 2006 ???.

..... after that, our XJO should rebound quickly, with
some good gains to finish off 2006 and continuuing into  
mid-February 2007 (???) ..... 

have a great weekend all 

  yogi


----------



## pacer

In the event of a crash....which some think will happen next month........CFD's....one long ,one short...even money mmmm ..Long MBL  and short CBA since tuesday looks ok so far....your opinins are well appreciated.


----------



## nelly

I have a bourban in hand and ........it HURTS like HELL!!!!!!! :error:


----------



## nelly

Wot r u doin' up Pacer?.....get 2 BED!


----------



## Pager

pacer said:
			
		

> In the event of a crash....which some think will happen next month........CFD's....one long ,one short...even money mmmm ..Long MBL  and short CBA since tuesday looks ok so far....your opinins are well appreciated.




My   

This time every year there is talk of a crash, the October thing   , unless something is coming out of the blue i really cant see why the aussie market would crash, most big Aussie companys are on a roll profit wise, historicaly the P/E for the ASX 200 as a whole is very low, dividend yeild high.

I would go with the flow up or down trading the Spi but as im off to sunny England for 3 weeks will miss all the fun should a bit of high voitility hit the markets.

Cheers

Pager


----------



## tech/a

sails said:
			
		

> I am no expert in Gann having only learned the basics with SITM a few years ago, but did learn enough to understand that Gann levels usually mean a confluence of various calculations and not just previous tops and bottoms as in Wikipedia.  To name just a few, the calculations may include: percentages of highs and lows, percentages of previous ranges, squaring of time and price, and some incorporate the use of various Gann squares, etc, etc...
> 
> To me the word "Gann" is simply an adjective describing the type of analysis that has been used to derive that particular support or resistance area.  Just like "Elliot" is used to describe  his wave system and "Darvas" is another - and we accept that specific analysis and rules have been applied.
> 
> Hope that helps!




sails.

Thanks.
I see it has been helpful for others as well.

Confluence of time and price I believe can be calculated from various highs and lows over wide or shorter periods.
This gives pressure points I believe is the terminology,and are calculated using principles of Gann and as such are exclusive to Gann analysis.

Is it possible to have a chart (ASX 200) with these various points of interest upon them?
That would be a practical demonstration in my view of accuracy which can be evaluated after these confluences pass by.

Gann analysts are very sure of the accuracy of their analysis,and as I have said before *I have seen this demonstrated in hindsite but never with even mediocre accuracy going forward.*

To stir interest in this form of analysis and give it a sence of credibility,as being something worthwhile studying,why is this too much to ask of those who practice Gann?


----------



## Bronte

Wow!  
Lots of interest here this morning  

Dow down -25.1 points
Sycom had a high of 4998
Low 4965  
Now 4966


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Since this mornings action we have traded in a very tight range.
> What trading opportunities will "Happy half Hour" provide?
> A break to the upside maybe?
> *Gann Resistance * starting at 4997




*Sell: 'Gann Resistance'
Buy: 'Gann Support'
Hide your stoploss.
Make money $$$$
Simple really* 

Every time we issue/post a Gann Resistance / Support Level....
(certainly not always here at ASF)
Some SPI traders somewhere trades them. (Buy / Sell)
Nearly ten years of trading these Gann areas.
We have to be very careful of what we say 
SPI Sycom chart:


----------



## Frank D

Budfox,

That’s from the movie Wall Street?

I used to talk nearly everyday for about 6 months on the phone and skype to a guy who loved that movie. I’m just wondering if you’re the same guy because you seem to be a little bit sensitive about my comments regarding Index select.

The interesting part is I had a falling out with the same person about 4 weeks ago and stopped talking to him completely. The other interesting part is looking at Index Selects results for September on SPI.  Just a coincidence.

*Just to let others know I’m the biggest fraud there is, and make nothing from my trading over the years, my methodology sux, and my systems are useless. * 

However, it seems that  there are now hundreds around the globe directly and many more indirectly now using higher timeframe, multi-timeframe dynamic pivots, ranges bars and  developed systems based on what I have told them. 

I  don’t think I have to apology for anything, because if you are that same person, you should be thanking me. If you are not that person and subscribing to Index Select then indirectly you a profiting from my work. 

Just to let you know that there are other SMS services that have now popped up around the globe, the difference is, they at least acknowledge the model and they all know where they came from. I'm happy for them.


This is the reason why I stopped visiting forums and posting in forums. I’ll take my thoughts and wander off into the sunset. Adios!


Frank


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> *Sell: 'Gann Resistance'
> Buy: 'Gann Support'
> Hide your stoploss.
> Make money $$$$
> Simple really*
> 
> Every time we issue/post a Gann Resistance / Support Level....
> (certainly not always here at ASF)
> Some SPI traders somewhere trades them. (Buy / Sell)
> Nearly ten years of trading these Gann areas.
> We have to be very careful of what we say



"Trading the SPI"
Great thread this one


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Yes iSPI we have a timeframe day today as well.
> If this High holds 5105 we will have some fun.



Well our timeframe held


----------



## ducati916

*tech/a* 



> Gann analysts are very sure of the accuracy of their analysis,and as I have said before I have seen this demonstrated in hindsite but never with even mediocre accuracy going forward.
> 
> To stir interest in this form of analysis and give it a sence of credibility,as being something worthwhile studying,why is this too much to ask of those who practice Gann?




Gannism, has many of the elements associated with a cult.
The predominant finding in studies performed on cults, has been the total lack of documentary evidence in support of the premise or thesis.

This of course in of itself is no evidence that the methodology is flawed, just that it is extremely difficult to find live examples outside of paying for it.
I would suggest that if you have just paid $XXX for an instructional course, that your inherent bias is such that you are predisposed to positive attribution.

To trade it live, in the manner of say TT, would remove the veneer of self-delusion, and expose the reality to the cold light of day, or, provide the evidence that in point of fact, Gann is the man, and we are all really peanuts in disguise.

I won't hold my breath.
The excuses will be myriad.
Some will sound plausible.
The net result will however = no live demonstration.

jog on
d998


----------



## Bronte

Hi duc,
Not sure of what you are saying here....  
Once again please in my language


----------



## ducati916

*Bronte* 

I am simply informing *tech/a* that he might as well pack up his tent, and move to more fertile ground.

All the Gann practitioners, on a number of stock trading sites, around the world, have signally declined to provide a trading log in the manner of TT.
Nothing that I have read on this thread, convinces me that anything is about to change.

Therefore, this thread can be left to it's own devices, and the chips will fall where they will.

jog on
d998


----------



## Bronte

Oh I see...Thank you duc,
Great advice, we hope that he listens.

Battman works our his:
*Gann Timeframes * 
(usually issued in December for the following year)
*Gann Support / Resistance Areas*
(usually issued 30 mins before the market opens for the day)
No sacrificing virgins here I am afraid


----------



## ducati916

With regards to Gannism;
Gannism is esoteric, not easily understood, possibly highly discretionary, and thus always viewed with suspicion.

As to the origins of the time theory element to Gannism the following caught my attention.

In 1913, a PhD was published by Bachelier in France, and demonstrated via rather complex mathematical equations that, price fluctuations grow in range and will be proportional to the square root of time 

Stock prices in the United States over the last 100 years have 66% of the time fluctuated within a range of 5.9% on either side of their average.
The range in a course of a year has not been 72% or a multiple of 12 [year] rather, it has averaged around 20%

This is 3.5 times the monthly range.
The square root of 12 = 3.46



> But exactly just what did Mr Gann write about angles? For anyone with an original Gann course, if they will turn to the first page of the section titled The Basis of My Forecasting Method, looking at line 10 from the bottom; they will read the following quote. "There are three kinds of angles-the vertical, the horizontal, and the diagonal, which we use for measuring time and price movements." Today every usage called "Gann angles" uses "diagonal angles" only. Yet the Master says we must use all three angles-the vertical angle, the horizontal angle, the diagonal Angle. Definitely not the last and least important, the diagonal angle alone.




The above caught my eye from page 3
Intrestingly, this is another application of higher mathematics, referring to chaos 

This is chaos in the mathematical definition, not your standard day-to-day useage.

In it's simplest form chaos can be written;
4x{1 - x} 
Computing the value of *x* of that expression for some initial value of *x* then substituting this answer back into the original expression starts a feedback loop.

Repeating this simple iterative process repetitively produces surprisingly complex, unpredictable mathematical behaviour.

The mathematical behaviour expresses the same kind of disorder produced by non-linear equations 

The simplest non-linear equation;
Xn+1 = KXn - KXn(1 - Xn) 

This equation determines the future value of the variable x at the time step n + 1 from the past value of x at time step n 

This is known as the logistic equation 
All well and good, but, what the hell is this to do with the Gannies?

Logistic equations are used in Medicine to predict population expansion, via Birth rates, Death rates, due in part to availability of food, water, arable land, disease etc.

It can also be used in ecology, for populations of insects, crops, etc.
Gann was interested in commodities.
Wait, there's more.

The logistic equation is a quadratic equation with a linear first term, and, a non-linear second term 

It is the non-linear, or feedback component that is important.

For a given value of K once a starting point Xo is specified, the evolution of the system is fully determined. One step, inexorably leads to the next.
The whole process can be pictured on a graph.

It forms a parabola, that opens downwards.
There is a short-cut provided via the graphical representation, that avoids endless computations.

Re-read the quote at the start of this post;

The addition of a 45 degree line up from the horizontal axis [representing the line Xn+1 = Xn]
The best course is to steer is from Xo vertically to the parabola to reach X1 then horizontally to the 45 degree line, and vertically back to the parabola.

These paths or Orbits give the first indication of which routes lead to the erratic behaviour of chaos 

Whereas some orbits converge, on one particular value, others jump back and forth among a few possible values, and many roam, never settling anywhere.

When K is between 1 & 3, just about every route no matter where it starts, is eventually attracted to a specific value called a fixed point which occurs where the parabola intersects the 45 degree line at x = [k - 1]/k This corresponds to to a steady state or equilibrium 

Therefore, taking the previous mathematical work performed by Bachelier, combined with a logistic equation, and you can reproduce seemingly Gann.

The question is, historically, who, and at what date, was the initial work completed in logistic equations?

How did Astrology get involved?
Mathematicians have always historically been associated with planetary movements orbits etc.

jog on
d998
__________________


----------



## iSPI

This thread cracks me up !

Occasionally there is some great info  however alot of the time there
is ... whats the Judge from Boston Legal say?  too much Jibber Jabber !

It's like listening to kids at Kindy

Hey Ducati!  (which are fabulous bikes by the way)......
how the heck did you come to the conclusion that we are all peanuts in disguise?


----------



## tech/a

Bronte said:
			
		

> Hi duc,
> Not sure of what you are saying here....
> Once again please in my language




The excuses will be myriad.

Excuse # 1 me no understand.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Oh I see...Thank you duc,
> Great advice, we hope that he listens.
> 
> Battman works our his:
> *Gann Timeframes *
> (usually issued in December for the following year)
> *Gann Support / Resistance Areas*
> (usually issued 30 mins before the market opens for the day)
> No sacrificing virgins here I am afraid



Not listening tech/a


----------



## BudFox

*QUOTE: I seen Frank trade live.. his system works very well.*

yer.. i have seen frank too... and the systems do not work!!!!!!


----------



## Bronte

Joe Blow said:
			
		

> Glad to hear it Bud. Welcome to ASF.
> Since you are not here to argue about things I have taken the liberty of removing some posts in this thread that could appear to some to be argumentative.
> Looking forward to your contributions.



Be very careful Bud


----------



## tech/a

Bronte said:
			
		

> Not listening tech/a




The excuses will be myriad.

*Excuse # 2* Go away, Translated---"I cant expose myself as in capable of demonstrating practical application of Gann. I wish the shroud of mystery to remain. Exposure will destroy any credibility. I have a business of mystery to protect!!"

Actually I dont care *WHO* gives a demonstration any Gann practitioner.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Oh I see...Thank you duc,
> Great advice, *we hope that he listens.*
> 
> Battman works our his:
> *Gann Timeframes *
> (usually issued in December for the following year)
> *Gann Support / Resistance Areas*
> (usually issued 30 mins before the market opens for the day)
> No sacrificing virgins here I am afraid



Not listening tech


----------



## tech/a

> Gann Timeframes
> (usually issued in December for the following year)




Then the rest of the year you have.
Lets see them.


----------



## Bronte

Not listening tech


----------



## Bronte

I have had to report you again tech.
We agreed to keep out of each others way.
(To keep the peace here at ASF.)
Why break your word now?
You know you are on our 'Ignore lists'
Please do the same to Battman & Bronte


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> I have had to report you again tech.
> We agreed to keep out of each others way.
> (To keep the peace here at ASF.)
> Why break your word now?
> You know you are on our 'Ignore lists'
> Please do the same to Battman & Bronte



As a *final * word to you tech/a
You are attacking Battman not his system.
I know he has done you no harm.


----------



## tech/a

> You are attacking Battman not his system.




Fair enough,I dont believe there is any Gann used in this SPI thread.
Battman and yourself (Who I believe to be the same person) set yourselves up here as authorities on the subject---even teach it supposedly.

All I wish to see from *ANYONE* who is supposedly proficient in Gann (And Im sure Im not alone) is a practical demonstration of the techniques use of price and time going forward.

Ive been asking this for years havent seen it YET.

Dont think I will either,simply because the method has very little practical use which exponents find out much to their dismay after forking out $1000s to do so.

*Anyone care to demonstrate?????*


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Battman works our his:
> *Gann Timeframes *
> (usually issued in December for the following year)
> *Gann Support / Resistance Areas*
> (usually issued 30 mins before the market opens for the day)



Does anyone know of any other "Great Trading Masters" that use Timeframes?
I suppose there must be some others.


----------



## sails

tech/a said:
			
		

> sails.
> 
> Thanks.
> I see it has been helpful for others as well.
> 
> Confluence of time and price I believe can be calculated from various highs and lows over wide or shorter periods.
> This gives pressure points I believe is the terminology,and are calculated using principles of Gann and as such are exclusive to Gann analysis.
> 
> Is it possible to have a chart (ASX 200) with these various points of interest upon them?
> That would be a practical demonstration in my view of accuracy which can be evaluated after these confluences pass by.
> 
> Gann analysts are very sure of the accuracy of their analysis,and as I have said before *I have seen this demonstrated in hindsite but never with even mediocre accuracy going forward.*
> 
> To stir interest in this form of analysis and give it a sence of credibility,as being something worthwhile studying,why is this too much to ask of those who practice Gann?



Tech/a,

I can’t help you with a chart of Gann time frames for the future of XJO simply because I don’t have one.  I no longer attempt to use analysis that is too much predictive as I found it produced a mindset that needed to be “right”.  Instead, if I see time and price coming together and then look for volume and price action to confirm the likelihood of a potential move.  But then I am only in kindergarten when it comes to Gann techniques.

The other thing is there are many different and complex methods incorporated into Gann and even if one analyst posts a chart for you, another one would probably have a different chart – so it is very subjective and depends largely on the skill of the individual analyst.   Probably even more subjective than Elliott Wave analysis.  Both are very different to your TT system which is so concise and has served you well.

I have found that not all Gann style set-ups work, so agree with Bronte that one also has to have trader skills.  Gann encourages the use of stops in his writings so he obviously didn’t expect every prediction to work either.  One of the advantages is that one can keep stops quite close to the entry point.  OTOH, I have also found that when these do work, there is often a very strong move in one’s favour – just look at the move down this week on the SPI following Bronte’s “time frame” call on the 19th September.  She posted this around lunch time on that day without knowing what the next day/s would bring.  Even though that was publicly posted on the day, it certainly couldn’t be called a hindsight call.  This is only one of many I have seen work for them.

My guess is that Battman has become very skilled and intuitive in matching up the necessary areas of confluences to produce tradeable forecasts especially after 10 years of working on it.  I can understand they won’t want to give all this information away as it would be giving away Intellectual Property considering the time consuming detailed work and effort that goes into these types of forecasts.

I think Gann methods are misunderstood as people want simple answers to complex methods.  Option trading is much the same – people go to a seminar and then jump on to a forum wanting simple concise instructions to very complex areas which are often impossible to give without re-writing textbooks into a few posts.  

So, why does anyone bother with this complex stuff that’s not easily explained when there are such simple and effective systems as your TT?  I don’t know for sure, but I think those with strong analytical skills are probably drawn to this type of analysis.  Probably because there is some satisfaction in finding reasons why the market moves – and that’s what makes the world an interesting place because we are all made so differently.

I tend to agree with Duc that the Gann style of analysis is probably not for you as you have found what works best for you plus you have many other activities on the go and I doubt very much that you would want to spend the necessary time on this style of analysis.  However, if you are still interested, I would suggest getting hold of “How to Make Profits in Commodities” by WD Gann – quite possible your local library might have it. 

Cheers


----------



## Pager

Bronte said:
			
		

> Does anyone know of any other "Great Trading Masters" that use Timeframes?
> I suppose there must be some others.




Well there is Larry Williams, not timeframes like WD as such but he does favour certain days of the week/month to buy or sell, also certain years some markets show a tendency to go up or down, years ending in 7 often have big down moves for stock markets, look at them on long term charts in recent years 1987, 1997.

What will 2007 deliver ?????


----------



## doctorj

Thanks to Ducati from bringing some sense in to this discussion.

This thread is about trading the SPI, not the merits of trading using Gann.  People wanting to have that discussion are welcome to have it in another thread.  In the mean time, this thread shall be used for posting forward looking SPI trades (as opposed to historical since no one learns anything from hindsight) and discussion of specific methods used to trade the SPI.  If myself or any of the other moderaters decide that this has gone off topic again, expect the thread to be closed.


----------



## Bronte

Excellent work doctorj,
'Trading the SPI'
Thank you for that post


----------



## doctorj

I want to be clear that much of what happened to this thread is your fault Bronte.  You post historical trades, you dodge direct questions on the basis that you 'don't understand' and 99.99% of your posts have no value what so ever.

You would do well to take a leaf out of Yogi's book.  He's a highly respected contributor of many online communities and is willing to take the time to explain his ideas to those that show an interest and for years he has openly posted his analysis of many stocks and indicies.


----------



## Bronte

Where do you live in Perth doctorj?


----------



## sails

doctorj said:
			
		

> I want to be clear that much of what happened to this thread is your fault Bronte.  You post historical trades, you dodge direct questions on the basis that you 'don't understand' and 99.99% of your posts have no value what so ever....



doctorj, I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds value in Bronte's posts.  Surely those that don't are at perfect liberty to put her on "ignore" rather than denying others something that they actually find interesting.  The constant interjections and accusations directed at Bronte do become quite tiresome and it would be good to see this thread back on topic


----------



## Bronte

sails said:
			
		

> I can’t help you with a chart of Gann time frames for the future of XJO simply because I don’t have one.  I no longer attempt to use analysis that is too much predictive as I found it produced a mindset that needed to be “right”.  Instead, if I see time and price coming together and then look for volume and price action to confirm the likelihood of a potential move.  But then I am only in kindergarten when it comes to Gann techniques.
> 
> The other thing is there are many different and complex methods incorporated into Gann and even if one analyst posts a chart for you, another one would probably have a different chart – so it is very subjective and depends largely on the skill of the individual analyst.   Probably even more subjective than Elliott Wave analysis.  Both are very different to your TT system which is so concise and has served you well.
> 
> I have found that not all Gann style set-ups work, so agree with Bronte that one also has to have trader skills.  Gann encourages the use of stops in his writings so he obviously didn’t expect every prediction to work either.  One of the advantages is that one can keep stops quite close to the entry point.  OTOH, I have also found that when these do work, there is often a very strong move in one’s favour – just look at the move down this week on the SPI following Bronte’s “time frame” call on the 19th September.  She posted this around lunch time on that day without knowing what the next day/s would bring.  Even though that was publicly posted on the day, it certainly couldn’t be called a hindsight call.  This is only one of many I have seen work for them.
> 
> My guess is that Battman has become very skilled and intuitive in matching up the necessary areas of confluences to produce tradeable forecasts especially after 10 years of working on it.  I can understand they won’t want to give all this information away as it would be giving away Intellectual Property considering the time consuming detailed work and effort that goes into these types of forecasts.
> 
> I think Gann methods are misunderstood as people want simple answers to complex methods.  Option trading is much the same – people go to a seminar and then jump on to a forum wanting simple concise instructions to very complex areas which are often impossible to give without re-writing textbooks into a few posts.
> 
> So, why does anyone bother with this complex stuff that’s not easily explained when there are such simple and effective systems as your TT?  I don’t know for sure, but I think those with strong analytical skills are probably drawn to this type of analysis.  Probably because there is some satisfaction in finding reasons why the market moves – and that’s what makes the world an interesting place because we are all made so differently.
> 
> I tend to agree with Duc that the Gann style of analysis is probably not for you as you have found what works best for you plus you have many other activities on the go and I doubt very much that you would want to spend the necessary time on this style of analysis.  However, if you are still interested, I would suggest getting hold of “How to Make Profits in Commodities” by WD Gann – quite possible your local library might have it.
> 
> Cheers



Thank you sails,
I thought this was a great well thought out post.


----------



## sails

doctorj said:
			
		

> ... In the mean time, this thread shall be used for posting forward looking SPI trades (as opposed to historical since no one learns anything from hindsight)....



Does this also now apply to all the other stock threads on ASF?  If not, why not?


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Where do you live in Perth doctorj?



I think we require your ruling Joe


----------



## doctorj

It's a very reasonable expectation that threads stay on topic.

Now, to trading the SPI please.


----------



## Bronte

'Trading the SPI'  
Sycom closed at 4966
If we open around here on Monday
Then we will be looking to Buy the SPI


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> 'Trading the SPI'
> Sycom closed at 4966
> If we open around here on Monday
> Then we will be looking to Buy the SPI



Any other SPI traders keen to buy?


----------



## doctorj

Why do you think its a good trade at those levels?


----------



## Bronte

*Gann Support * at 4966
Do you trade the SPI?
99.9% of no value?
1 in 1000


----------



## Sean K

Bronte said:
			
		

> *Gann Support * at 4966
> Do you trade the SPI?
> 99.9% of no value?
> 1 in 1000




Bronte, can you show the analysis to have Gann support at this level?

My naked eye has support at 4900/4920 ish.


----------



## Bronte

You think we will open lower?


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> *Gann Support * at 4966
> Do you trade the SPI?
> 99.9% of no value?
> 1 in 1000



SPI traders pay us good money for education.
We owe them a lot of respect.


----------



## Sean K

Bronte said:
			
		

> SPI traders pay us good money for education.
> We owe them a lot of respect.




What the?

In regard to the opening lower question, I say yes, because of DJ weakness, but the 4900/20 figure is my support line for SPI which may occur in the comming days pending international geopolitical/environmental issues which can not be forecast by anyone even Gann or Elliot or Bronte. 

My thoery on T/A is now edging towards the 'self fulfilling prophecy' theory which says that if enough people think there is supposed to be support at some point, there will.


----------



## Sean K

I think it's quite clear from this chart that 4900 is support and then 4600. Would like to see a Fib annalysis on the retractment from 5400 on this, but this computer won't let me do it.


----------



## iSPI

kennas said:
			
		

> I think it's quite clear from this chart that 4900 is support and then 4600. Would like to see a Fib annalysis on the retractment from 5400 on this, but this computer won't let me do it.




Kennas
Is this what you were looking for ?


----------



## iSPI

kennas said:
			
		

> What the?
> 
> In regard to the opening lower question, I say yes, because of DJ weakness, but the 4900/20 figure is my support line for SPI which may occur in the comming days pending international geopolitical/environmental issues which can not be forecast by anyone even Gann or Elliot or Bronte.
> 
> My thoery on T/A is now edging towards the 'self fulfilling prophecy' theory which says that if enough people think there is supposed to be support at some point, there will.




RE: point on T/A, I agree, same principal applies to time. People remember
"Oh this day last year we had a horrific pull back I better sell in case
it crashes again"


----------



## Sean K

iSPI said:
			
		

> Kennas
> Is this what you were looking for ?




Depends where you put the start point ispi. Should be at the start of the 'Bull Run' I suppose.


----------



## iSPI

kennas said:
			
		

> I think it's quite clear from this chart that 4900 is support and then 4600. Would like to see a Fib annalysis on the retractment from 5400 on this, but this computer won't let me do it.






			
				kennas said:
			
		

> Depends where you put the start point ispi. Should be at the start of the 'Bull Run' I suppose.




Kennas
I put the start point at 5407  on the 10th May 2006 and did a fib retracement
to 14/6/ low 4758

Isn't that what you were looking for?
If you need something else let me know and I'll see if I can
put it for you

Regards
iSPI


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> 'Trading the SPI'
> Sycom closed at 4966
> If we open around here on Monday
> Then we will be looking to Buy the SPI



Let's say eight point stoploss.
99.9% no value


----------



## Bronte

Any other SPI traders have a prediction for Mondays Open?
Monday Opens are the hardest to trade...as previously posted.


----------



## Bronte

Traders have all weekend to "do the numbers"
compared with a few hour on the morning before Open.
Summer time in Perth the market opens at 06.50AM  
Earlier in this thread we called a few Monday mornings &
on many other forums we used to do this regularly  
99.99% (That is 1 in 10 000)


----------



## iSPI

Bronte said:
			
		

> 'Trading the SPI'
> Sycom closed at 4966
> If we open around here on Monday
> Then we will be looking to Buy the SPI




Well we have low 4960  12/9/2006 and 4958 22/9/2006
* looks * like a buy however
it's not a buy for me until it gets above the high on 21st
and that seems to be a little late for me so no trade
on Monday for me.


----------



## Bronte

Thanks iSPI for your input.
22/09/06 Low was 4950
As per the SPI chart attached
(Used up my 1 in 10,000)  
Timeframe day also shown.


----------



## iSPI

Bronte said:
			
		

> 22/09/06 Low was 4950
> .




Oops you are quite correct, 
I simply whipped up a chart using the spot data as provided by my supplier
and it probably used Sept contract for 22nd and not the December contract.

Apologies to all for the confusion


----------



## GreatPig

Looking suspiciously like a head and shoulders pattern on the end there.

Same with the XJO/XAO.

GP


----------



## Sean K

GreatPig said:
			
		

> Looking suspiciously like a head and shoulders pattern on the end there.
> 
> Same with the XJO/XAO.
> 
> GP




I agree, and if it drops the distance from the neckline to the top of the head, then 4900 is the target.


----------



## Bronte

Yes, we would like to see a Low  
of around 4900 on September 25th


----------



## Bronte

iSPI said:
			
		

> Oops you are quite correct,
> I simply whipped up a chart using the spot data as provided by my supplier
> and it probably used Sept contract for 22nd and not the December contract.
> Apologies to all for the confusion



Not necessary iSPI   
The change over of contracts can be confusing.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> We switch with the volume



One of the reasons we switch with the volume is to eliminate confusion


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> One of the reasons we switch with the volume is to eliminate confusion



The charts we work off are our large hand drawn ones.


----------



## DT_Futures

Frank D said:
			
		

> Budfox,
> 
> That’s from the movie Wall Street?
> 
> I used to talk nearly everyday for about 6 months on the phone and skype to a guy who loved that movie. I’m just wondering if you’re the same guy because you seem to be a little bit sensitive about my comments regarding Index select.
> 
> The interesting part is I had a falling out with the same person about 4 weeks ago and stopped talking to him completely. The other interesting part is looking at Index Selects results for September on SPI.  Just a coincidence.
> 
> *Just to let others know I’m the biggest fraud there is, and make nothing from my trading over the years, my methodology sux, and my systems are useless. *
> 
> However, it seems that  there are now hundreds around the globe directly and many more indirectly now using higher timeframe, multi-timeframe dynamic pivots, ranges bars and  developed systems based on what I have told them.
> 
> I  don’t think I have to apology for anything, because if you are that same person, you should be thanking me. If you are not that person and subscribing to Index Select then indirectly you a profiting from my work.
> 
> Just to let you know that there are other SMS services that have now popped up around the globe, the difference is, they at least acknowledge the model and they all know where they came from. I'm happy for them.
> 
> 
> This is the reason why I stopped visiting forums and posting in forums. I’ll take my thoughts and wander off into the sunset. Adios!
> 
> 
> Frank





just visiting your website again, and see you have changed from advertising indexselect on your website to trend alert.
which looks to be running by your partner out of the netherlands, of course they acknlowdge it, it is you and your partner running it...

good luck to it all...


----------



## GreatPig

kennas said:
			
		

> if it drops the distance from the neckline to the top of the head, then 4900 is the target.



Not sure how you get that figure. I'd put it at around 4800.

Cheers,
GP


----------



## Sean K

GreatPig said:
			
		

> Not sure how you get that figure. I'd put it at around 4800.
> 
> Cheers,
> GP




You're right GP. I only dropped a measley 100 points off my calculations...ha.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> 'Trading the SPI'
> Sycom closed at 4966
> If we open around here on Monday
> Then we will be looking to Buy the SPI



We will see what happens
Not keen on weekends


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> *Gann Support * at 4966



We have a very nice Gann Support/Resistance area here


----------



## wayneL

*Please Note:*

All posts *not directly ralated to trading the SPI* in this thread will be deleted. I have created a new thread "The Spi Pit", for all other SPI related comment.

That way, those strictly interested in the trading will not have to wade through all the rest of the cr@p.

Those interested in all the other cr@p, The SPI Pit is the place for you. (Clever pun if I do say so myself   )


----------



## BudFox

Hi Guys, here is today's report from Index Select. Thought it may be of some help.  

SPI 200 Australia  - 25/09/06  

SYNOPSIS
As stated early last week, a breach of 5014 on a weekly close is very bearish for the SPI . We have closed at 4966 last week and this week we are expecting some kind of attempt higher before a major correction down to 4933 and then 4882. The Short rally on Monday and Tuesday may not occur and it could be straight down from here, but we really want to get short at higher prices  and ride this market lower. Having a look at the chart, a classic major topping formation is in place. It's saying GET SHORT! My optimum area for a short would be 5039, however we will probably not get this high, the next major resistance at  5022. Either way we see the market as a low risk short.  Judging by Fridays day session strength on the close, Monday may rally slightly - we have initial  support at 4950-53 and a sell area at 5035 to 39..  The 3 week lows are at 4933 and traders will be going long around here hard. It all depends on the price action and patterns this week. For today , buy intial support at 5050 -53 (2 day low and pivot low). Don't be surprised if the market collapses sometime this week,  the USA is still very overbought and needs a major rest. The SPI will  follow lower.

MARKET ANALYSIS.

Trend Dynamics
Key Price Levels
Daily Sell Cycle: Below 3 day Highs (5055)

Major levels higher:   5014 – 5022,  
5035 to 38 is a major shorting area.
5050 ultimate sell area. (3 day highs area)
Weekly Buy Cycle –   3 week lows, Supported at 4933

Major Levels Lower:  4950 , 4929 , 4912  4880

TREND COMMENTS
Weekly - A weekly close below  5014 will signal continued weakness
Yearly - Pivot Extremes at 4900 now support until December 31st 2006 , 3 month low 4870 support.

TRADING IDEAS:  

INTRADAY LEVELS

SUPPORT LOWER   -  4951   *  RESISTANCE HIGHER -   5014 - 22

Monday is a great day to buy lower prices and sell higher prices. I expect rotation.

SWING TRADING

Sell SPI Short  at limit 5035 to 39  if done,  buy SPI  at 5065  on stop – Target 4951


----------



## wayneL

BudFox said:
			
		

> It's saying GET SHORT!




Gimmmeeeee Megadeath!!!!! :batman:

Bud,

For SPI tankage next week, you are saying that metals/energy will slip quietly over the precipice into the abyss... either that or major bloodshed in the banks.

........or *both*! 

Can you see that happening? I can't see that just yet, I can see a down week in the US indicies though with the SPI following slavishly in it's slipstream. 

Be interesting to see how this plays out. Short would be a good bet IMO too.


----------



## swingstar

wayneL said:
			
		

> For SPI tankage next week, you are saying that metals/energy will slip quietly over the precipice into the abyss... either that or major bloodshed in the banks.




I've been bearish on the banks since before last week; am long puts in two. MBL is the next to go IMO. I think the selloff on some of the banks has been overdone, so might see a bit of a rally, but I think it'll be a down week overall for them. 

Same with the XJO, and especially if the Dow gets done, which I'm anticipating.


----------



## wayneL

swingstar said:
			
		

> I've been bearish on the banks since before last week; am long puts in two. MBL is the next to go IMO. I think the selloff on some of the banks has been overdone, so might see a bit of a rally, but I think it'll be a down week overall for them.
> 
> Same with the XJO, and especially if the Dow gets done, which I'm anticipating.



Lets say everybody comes to their senses and get all bearish on industrials/banks etc, but metals and oil rally.

What then for XJO? e.g. pull up a chart of gold and XJO and see the correlation.

??


----------



## Porper

wayneL said:
			
		

> Lets say everybody comes to their senses and get all bearish on industrials/banks etc, but metals and oil rally.
> 
> What then for XJO? e.g. pull up a chart of gold and XJO and see the correlation.
> 
> ??




If the DOW retraces, which it needs to do before the next leg up to all time highs i.m.o., can the XJO isolate itself from this ? No chance is my bet.

I think I have been brainwashed by you lot  I am short two stocks and am not long anything at the moment. 

Just on oil and Gold, if we have a fairly swift downturn on the XJO, even if oil and gold rise, it doesn't mean oil and gold stocks will rise.They will be the ones to jump on when the markets fire up to all time highs again.


----------



## BudFox

The link to the report is 

http://www.spitraders.com/spi 25th SEP.pdf

they seem to be very accurate, I think you guys are correct, if the DOW tanks, SPI will goto 4900.

I am buying SPI at 4951 today and selling up near 5022 to 35


----------



## iSPI

For those who think the DOW is going to tank ( and I tend to agree)
and buying the SPI.

Can I ask why are you buying it?

Are you 
1: Trying to get a quick trade in because the SPI looks oversold
2:  Working on some sort of time based system and believe that
     the DOW won't tank until   xxth of XXX
3: Like to take the contrarian approach
4 Some other reason?

The Dow


----------



## BudFox

Trading is not complex. Mondays has a 75% upward Bias , After a down week, Mondays usually pushes lower before moving up. There is support at 4950. 15 point stops is what I will use.. After that its 4930 and 4912 as per Index Selects report. This is a short term trade. I wil short higher at 5022 - 35

Average true range for Day SPI is around 46 pointson my charts, I want to trade the rotation, hard to see 6 down days in a row and Friday was not as weak as some expected, I am hoping for a bounce.


----------



## Nick Radge

The SPI has a 45% chance of closing above its open on a Monday.

If it opens below Fridays close it has a 46% chance of closing higher.

If it opens above Fridays close then comes back to test the close price it only has a 40% chance of closing higher.

If it opens above Fridays close it has a 48% chance of going on with it and closing higher.



Where do you get a 75% bias from?


----------



## Bronte

Good morning.
This is fantastic guys
Opposing views & discussion on 'Trading the SPI'
We have a Gann Fibonacci 50% level at 4964  
Welcome Nick.


----------



## BudFox

Hi Nick, 

I said upward bias .. not a solid statistic. You have probably done many studies on this, so pardon my loose figures.  Monday naturally has a intraday upward bias after 10.30am in my opinion... any chart will present this pattern, however the odds are probably in reality, 50 50 on a clsoing basis, i am talking intraday bias though. If Mondays price action is negative on the open, I have seen many setups for long entries if the previous day was down. Most studies I have done with open close relationships have been around 40 to 60 % , any strategy I have looked at using daily bars is quite sporadic, any strategies you may have with day session SPI would be interesting to see.

Cheers

Bud


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> 'Trading the SPI'
> Sycom closed at 4966
> If we open around here on Monday
> Then we will be looking to *Buy the SPI*



Opened at 4964
Now 4980 High


----------



## BudFox

Bronte, pleas explain how you got that buy level?


----------



## BudFox

Nick, thats the exact set up i was trying to explain, upward bias *GAP FILL*


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Opened at 4964
> Now 4980 High



SPI story so far:


----------



## sails

BudFox said:
			
		

> Bronte, pleas explain how you got that buy level?



Bud, before this causes another row    I think Bronte has already stated it in post #1608 where she states:



> We have a Gann Fibonacci 50% level at 4964



From the basic Gann I learned, 50% is the most important - so this statement of Bronte's tells me that not only is the 50% in play, but with the adjective of "Gann" before the word "Fibonacci" also tells me there most likely a confluence other Gann numbers such as squaring of time and price, etc, etc making this 50% a stronger level. 

To press for the exact formula is probably akin to asking Colonel Sanders for his recipe   .  I am grateful for what Bronte is willing to share for free - same with Yogi and others who do the same.

BTW I couldn't find a price on Index Select - are they free?


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Good morning.
> This is fantastic guys
> Opposing views & discussion on 'Trading the SPI'
> *We have a Gann Fibonacci 50% level at 4964 *
> Welcome Nick.



This should be enough to answer your question Bud.
There is also *a lot * of great information
in this 'Trading the SPI' thread. 

Just seen your post thanks Margaret


----------



## swingstar

Some (probably useless) trivia for the day... this is the first day since May 03 that the XJO has opened below the 200 day MA. 



			
				wayneL said:
			
		

> Lets say everybody comes to their senses and get all bearish on industrials/banks etc, but metals and oil rally.
> 
> What then for XJO? e.g. pull up a chart of gold and XJO and see the correlation.
> 
> ??




Same reasoning as Porper here. I can't see XJO holding up against falls in the Dow AND banks (what I'm both bearish on short-term).


----------



## Euler

Bronte said:
			
		

> Opened at 4964
> Now 4980 High




great call .... if you don't mind can you explain how you worked 4964 as the resistance?


----------



## sails

Euler said:
			
		

> great call .... if you don't mind can you explain how you worked 4964 as the resistance?




Euler - I see this is your first post - welcome to ASF!  I expect Bronte is busy with her trading ATM, so I will give you my thoughts.

I understand these levels are calcuclated using Gann methods and whole text books and courses have been written on the subject of Gann.  Certainly not something that Bronte can give a simple answer to in a post.

This is so much like options where someone brand new to options asks "which option should I buy"  - just wants a simple answer.  Options, like Gann and other analytical methods take time and study to learn and comprehend.

Would suggest you have a look at "How to Make Profits in Commodities" by WD Gann - that might help you get some of the basics so that you can interpret Bronte's posts.

Hope this helps!


----------



## Euler

Thanks sails for your comments ... very intriguing and a lot of learning to do.
Will follow the posts with interest after having read and absorbed as much as I could in one session.  Cheers


----------



## Bronte

Thank you Margaret


----------



## Bronte

Todays SPI chart:


----------



## iSPI

Lets see how tonight goes, depending on how it opens I'll be looking to buy 5 at 5019.

I have 4 indicators and 3 of them are giving a buy signal
however if the market Gaps above this I'll have to wait to see if it closes
the gap at least a bit and then buy it if it then rebounds.

Hopefully the open tomorrow will be similar to todays close.

5019 simply comes from a home grown calc, if there is any similarity to levels from other analysis  it's coincidental.


----------



## Bearman52

iSPI said:
			
		

> Lets see how tonight goes, depending on how it opens I'll be looking to buy 5 at 5019.
> 
> I have 4 indicators and 3 of them are giving a buy signal
> however if the market Gaps above this I'll have to wait to see if it closes
> the gap at least a bit and then buy it if it then rebounds.
> 
> Hopefully the open tomorrow will be similar to todays close.
> 
> 5019 simply comes from a home grown calc, if there is any similarity to levels from other analysis  it's coincidental.




Your home grown calc looks like it works to me. I hope you stayed up late and got set.
BM


----------



## Bobby

Anyone going short at the moment ?
 

Bob.


----------



## Paulie

Bobby said:
			
		

> Anyone going short at the moment ?
> 
> 
> Bob.




Yep, me.

My indicators are over bought and have turned down.


----------



## Bobby

Paulie said:
			
		

> Yep, me.
> 
> My indicators are over bought and have turned down.



Yep, looks over bought for sure, but if it still go's a bit higher hope you didn't set your stop to close on the short   

Bob.


----------



## Paulie

Bobby said:
			
		

> Yep, looks over bought for sure, but if it still go's a bit higher hope you didn't set your stop to close on the short
> 
> Bob.




I leave a bit of room for it to move, so I'm still short.

It's up a bit overnight - let's see what the open brings.


----------



## Euler

This mornings action gives the clearest signs of an adjustment of most elliott wave counts and change in trend.  But given the date (end of quarter) one may be forgiven to keep the powder dry.

May be an adjustment of the books? there are many bonuses on the line ..... and who wants to pass them by?

I know ... I'm skeptical ... but we'll have to wait till next week to know the answer for certain.


----------



## Paulie

Paulie said:
			
		

> I leave a bit of room for it to move, so I'm still short.
> 
> It's up a bit overnight - let's see what the open brings.




Bobby,

Stopped out earlier today... waiting for next signal.


----------



## iSPI

iSPI said:
			
		

> Lets see how tonight goes, depending on how it opens I'll be looking to buy 5 at 5019.
> 
> I have 4 indicators and 3 of them are giving a buy signal
> however if the market Gaps above this I'll have to wait to see if it closes
> the gap at least a bit and then buy it if it then rebounds.
> 
> Hopefully the open tomorrow will be similar to todays close.
> 
> 5019 simply comes from a home grown calc, if there is any similarity to levels from other analysis  it's coincidental.







			
				Bearman52 said:
			
		

> Your home grown calc looks like it works to me. I hope you stayed up late and got set.
> BM





Sure did BM....


----------



## Bobby

Paulie said:
			
		

> Bobby,
> 
> Stopped out earlier today... waiting for next signal.



 Sorry to hear you got stopped out Paulie, on Tuesdays opening  I think your short will prove itself.

If one had the guts to not have Stops, looking at recent ranges it would be so easy not to lose, just waiting for the exit.   

Think about it.

Bob.


----------



## Euler

Re: trading charting/platforms for the SPI I posted in the general forum but got no replies ......... see below

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=76028&postcount=10

 .... so have produced link here in case the readers here want to share their experiences.


----------



## Hudlass

Bobby said:
			
		

> Sorry to hear you got stopped out Paulie, on Tuesdays opening  I think your short will prove itself.
> 
> If one had the guts to not have Stops, looking at recent ranges it would be so easy not to lose, just waiting for the exit.
> 
> Think about it.
> 
> Bob.




Being stopped out is all part of the game.

If one had the 'guts' to not have stops - one would probably be broke!

It's better to be stopped out and prepare for the next trade.


----------



## Sean K

XAO hitting resistance at 5110ish. Trending up since mid June respecting the 200d ma. Just a little good news from the US tonight and I reckon it could break through and onwards up to next minor resistance at 5150.


----------



## iSPI

iSPI said:
			
		

> Lets see how tonight goes, depending on how it opens I'll be looking to *buy 5 at 5019*.
> 
> I have 4 indicators and 3 of them are giving a buy signal
> however if the market Gaps above this I'll have to wait to see if it closes
> the gap at least a bit and then buy it if it then rebounds.
> 
> Hopefully the open tomorrow will be similar to todays close.
> 
> 5019 simply comes from a home grown calc, if there is any similarity to levels from other analysis  it's coincidental.




How happy do you reckon I am right now


----------



## Bobby

iSPI said:
			
		

> How happy do you reckon I am right now




Congratulations iSPI, 5 contracts !
Got to ask, how will you exit ?

Cheers
Bob.


----------



## neo

iSpy did you enter your trade during sycom trading on 26/9 as I noticed that 5019 was reached at 12:00pm on 26/9?
Open on 27/9 was at 5060 and did not trade back down again. You said you planned to buy at 5019 if the market traded above your level then rebounded. From your post it could be assumed that you trade the day market only...
At what level did you enter your trade?
I see that you are coy about entry signal.... thats cool!
Are you still in this trade?
By the way awesome trade!


----------



## iSPI

Bobby said:
			
		

> Congratulations iSPI, 5 contracts !
> Got to ask, how will you exit ?
> 
> Cheers
> Bob.




Thanks Bob.

I have a few trailing stop methods,
1: General purpose - for long positions use put my stop 1 point under the lowest low of the last 2 days, reverse for shorts.

2: Short term trades - I use a formula a bit like a moving average

3: Long term trades - Similar formula but also allows the market to cross but not close above/below the trailing stop. It's designed to keep my in for longer term trades.

4: Of course if I get a signal to reverse position I will exit.

Sometimes the General purpose one is 2 far away so I might use the 50% point of a large range bar.

When I get a good profit showing often I tighten right up an go intra day/night and use swing bottoms/tops

I have my stop at 5159 at the moment and leave it there until morning.

Regards
iSPI


----------



## iSPI

neo said:
			
		

> iSpy did you enter your trade during sycom trading on 26/9 as I noticed that 5019 was reached at 12:00pm on 26/9?
> Open on 27/9 was at 5060 and did not trade back down again. You said you planned to buy at 5019 if the market traded above your level then rebounded. From your post it could be assumed that you trade the day market only...
> At what level did you enter your trade?
> I see that you are coy about entry signal.... thats cool!
> Are you still in this trade?
> By the way awesome trade!




Neo,
You are correct, very sorry about the confusion
I had planned to wait until the morning, I don't like
entering long positions overnight and I had never done so with more then 2 contracts before but I have grown my capital and added extra funds.

I was extremely nervous, Shorts are easier because overnight good news causing the market to gap up doesn't travel any where near as far as say a plane into a building.

Entering overnight long with 5 contracts was a MASSIVE step.
Don't get me wrong I still had good money management in place!

I only trade 5 contracts when I get 3 of the 4 signals, I can never
get all four on the same day because 1 lags at least a day.

When I get the 3 signals it's safest trade I can take so I put my phobia of long entries on Sycom aside and placed the order.

My entry signals are very simple, the "complex" part is there is 3 versions of 1 indicator.
1 indicator is a measurement of Overbought or oversold.
The other with 3 versions is like a moving average I guess and I work it off
2 time frames and weighted with the current trend.

I am constantly measuring cycles in the market because I believe they expand and contract. I use a full cycle and also a half cycle.

It's a very very simple indicator.
It also works extremely well, heres a post of last time all 3 versions of my indicator showing
as you can see 5 contracts but it was short, and a much easier step to take.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1664&page=64&pp=20

Regards
iSPI


----------



## Bobby

iSPI said:
			
		

> Thanks Bob.
> 
> I have a few trailing stop methods,
> 1: General purpose - for long positions use put my stop 1 point under the lowest low of the last 2 days, reverse for shorts.
> 
> 2: Short term trades - I use a formula a bit like a moving average
> 
> 3: Long term trades - Similar formula but also allows the market to cross but not close above/below the trailing stop. It's designed to keep my in for longer term trades.
> 
> 4: Of course if I get a signal to reverse position I will exit.
> 
> Sometimes the General purpose one is 2 far away so I might use the 50% point of a large range bar.
> 
> When I get a good profit showing often I tighten right up an go intra day/night and use swing bottoms/tops
> 
> I have my stop at 5159 at the moment and leave it there until morning.
> 
> Regards
> iSPI



Hello iSPI,

Thank you for the above information, I guess your worry is a gap down opening tomorrow.
Hope this trade works well for you   

Regards 
Bob.


----------



## iSPI

Whilst I can't ... well won't detail my trading system 
what was helpful to me was I read a book by an Australian
trader who said he uses 24 hour charts.

My system works very well on a combined day and night session chart
it works ok but no where near as good on just a day chart.

I hope this helps with your trading.


----------



## iSPI

Bobby said:
			
		

> Hello iSPI,
> 
> Thank you for the above information, I guess your worry is a gap down opening tomorrow.
> Hope this trade works well for you
> 
> Regards
> Bob.




Hi Bob,
I am becoming accustomed to Gaps, as long as I walk away with some profit
I'll be happy.
Regards
iSPI


----------



## Bobby

iSPI said:
			
		

> Hi Bob,
> I am becoming accustomed to Gaps, as long as I walk away with some profit
> I'll be happy.
> Regards
> iSPI



Nice to know you can handle those gaps iSPI.

If your form of T/A can handle some of the interesting moves the SPI does, like the big mechanical systems firing  ice'berg orders with auto replacement,
then your doing well. 

Cheers Bob.


----------



## iSPI

Bobby said:
			
		

> Nice to know you can handle those gaps iSPI.
> 
> If your form of T/A can handle some of the interesting moves the SPI does, like the big mechanical systems firing  ice'berg orders with auto replacement,
> then your doing well.
> 
> Cheers Bob.




Bob,

By using a combined day and night session charts there really is no Gaps ! 
Normally I believe in addressing fears/concerns so I feel a little bit like I have avoided the whole thing, however seeing so far my strategy has made me and saved me money I'll say my approach is sensible rather then "chicken" 

Thats very interesting comment about ice berg orders can you shed any light on what you mean by auto replacement?

Regards

iSPI


----------



## Paulie

Bob,

My indicators just gave me another sell signal ~ 5170-75.

See how this one goes


----------



## Bobby

iSPI said:
			
		

> Bob,
> 
> 
> Thats very interesting comment about ice berg orders can you shed any light on what you mean by auto replacement?
> 
> Regards
> 
> iSPI




Hi iSPI,

As you know an iceberg order is just a large order with just the tip visable.
Now what happens is ~ something like this, an order of say 300 is split over 3 brokers then scaled into 10 lots at a time, as each block is done its replaced by automatic electronic replenishment Instantly !    until the order is all  done.

Have fun
Bob.


----------



## Bobby

Paulie said:
			
		

> Bob,
> 
> My indicators just gave me another sell signal ~ 5170-75.
> 
> See how this one goes



Hello Paulie,

Yep it sure looks like that to me also .

But becareful of what I say as I no nothing   
Good luck.

Bob.


----------



## iSPI

Bobby said:
			
		

> Hi iSPI,
> 
> As you know an iceberg order is just a large order with just the tip visable.
> Now what happens is ~ something like this, an order of say 300 is split over 3 brokers then scaled into 10 lots at a time, as each block is done its replaced by automatic electronic replenishment Instantly !    until the order is all  done.
> 
> Have fun
> Bob.




Thanks for the info Bob,

I'm out of my trade at 5159
simply a case of my trailing stop got hit
of course it went just enough to hit my stop but no reason to be unhappy

NO signal to go short yet..

Regards

iSPI


----------



## Bobby

iSPI said:
			
		

> Thanks for the info Bob,
> 
> I'm out of my trade at 5159
> simply a case of my trailing stop got hit
> of course it went just enough to hit my stop but no reason to be unhappy
> 
> NO signal to go short yet..
> 
> Regards
> 
> iSPI



Well iSPI I think you did great !   
5 contracts bought at 5019 - out at 5159 = 700 points x $25 =$17500 ~ less brokerage.

I noticed it just took out your stop , then back up again   
But real nice trade !

Cheers
Bob.


----------



## iSPI

Bobby said:
			
		

> Well iSPI I think you did great !
> 5 contracts bought at 5019 - out at 5159 = 700 points x $25 =$17500 ~ less brokerage.
> 
> I noticed it just took out your stop , then back up again
> But real nice trade !
> 
> Cheers
> Bob.




Thanks Bob,

Yes it did only just take out my stop, that seems to be pretty typical
if you look at a 24 hour chart you'll see my entry of 5019 was the high of
the bar 

Anyone who is wondering if TA works? I can assure you it works for me


----------



## Bobby

iSPI said:
			
		

> Thanks Bob,
> 
> Yes it did only just take out my stop, that seems to be pretty typical
> if you look at a 24 hour chart you'll see my entry of 5019 was the high of
> the bar
> 
> Anyone who is wondering if TA works? I can assure you it works for me



 Hello iSPI,

What I liked about your trade was the stated entry then exit, plus contract numbers  5.
Now as for your use of T/A, I'm thinking you have something   or you were lucky, only you know.
Care to comment?

Regards 
Bob.


----------



## iSPI

Bobby said:
			
		

> Hello iSPI,
> 
> What I liked about your trade was the stated entry then exit, plus contract numbers  5.
> Now as for your use of T/A, I'm thinking you have something   or you were lucky, only you know.
> Care to comment?
> 
> Regards
> Bob.




Bob,

I have traded this signal 6 times, 5 winners 1 loss since June 2006
I'm happy to provide entry and exit if it doesn't bother people
that I am posting historical trades.
Trades were both long and short.
The 2 latest trades I posted as they happened so to speak

So it is possible I have been very lucky and "guessed" which is unlikely
it is also possible the system just happens to fit in with the current market
in which case I am lucky but as the market changes my system could crash and burn.

I do have other systems I trade but they have not been anywhere as successful has this one.

*Anyone reading this should take careful note, DO NOT trade using my posts * here you are entirely responsible for your own actions!

I'm happy to post future trades here if you like.

Cheers
iSPI


----------



## iSPI

Selling 5 at the open, stop loss  5209.


----------



## spitrader1

iSPI said:
			
		

> Selling 5 at the open, stop loss  5209.



did u buy them back ispi??


----------



## Euler

iSPI said:
			
		

> I'm happy to post future trades here if you like.




Please do iSPI ... will be educational to see a system at work "live".



			
				iSPI said:
			
		

> Selling 5 at the open, stop loss  5209.




Looks like it hit resistance at low 5180's and may come good.  I shorted at 5167 but bailed out as it turned to the up side as my tolerance level isn't as high as yours. Good luck with yr trade ... it has a good probability of success.


----------



## iSPI

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> did u buy them back ispi??



Hi spitrader, nope I'm still short and my stop loss has not been moved.


----------



## iSPI

Euler said:
			
		

> Please do iSPI ... will be educational to see a system at work "live".
> 
> Looks like it hit resistance at low 5180's and may come good.  I shorted at 5167 but bailed out as it turned to the up side as my tolerance level isn't as high as yours. Good luck with yr trade ... it has a good probability of success.




Thanks Euler

I took this trade early, I usually have 2 entry points.
1 entry is riskier but has obviously the potential for greater profit
my fill was at 5175.

Selling the open was the early (riskier) entry.
The safer entry is 5149.

Regards

iSPI


----------



## Euler

iSPI said:
			
		

> By using a combined day and night session charts there really is no Gaps !



Can you reliably use the SYCOM session when relative volume is low and prices can be at the mercy of large players who can then move price whichever way they like?  Also what time frame do you look at when assessing a potential steup?

( ... having said that ... I use continuous swing charts to track both sessions and what would look like a massive gap on day data looks like a normal swing on the combined)


----------



## iSPI

Euler said:
			
		

> 1:Can you reliably use the SYCOM session when relative volume is low and prices can be at the mercy of large players who can then move price whichever way they like?
> 
> 2: Also what time frame do you look at when assessing a potential steup?
> 
> ( ... having said that ... I use continuous swing charts to track both sessions and what would look like a massive gap on day data looks like a normal swing on the combined)




1: Sycom does some wierd things thats for sure.
    Is it reliable? it has been for me.
    I was taught to ignore sycom and don't even put a stop loss on overnight
    thats just plain crazy.
    I haven't tried this system intraday (but I do plan to) previous systems
    did not make sufficient profit intraday so I had to hold overnight.
    I found often my profit target was hit overnight but I missed it.
    Since Sycom is going to impact my trade I think I was silly for ignoring it.
    I'm not sure if the big players actually trade the night session...

2: I use a EOD data for setups and also use weekly data as well.
    Depending on work I sometimes use a 5 or 15 minute swing to exit
    if I am approaching a time target

Regards
iSPI


----------



## spitrader1

iSPI said:
			
		

> 1: Sycom does some wierd things thats for sure.
> Is it reliable? it has been for me.
> I was taught to ignore sycom and don't even put a stop loss on overnight
> thats just plain crazy.
> I haven't tried this system intraday (but I do plan to) previous systems
> did not make sufficient profit intraday so I had to hold overnight.
> I found often my profit target was hit overnight but I missed it.
> Since Sycom is going to impact my trade I think I was silly for ignoring it.
> I'm not sure if the big players actually trade the night session...
> 
> 2: I use a EOD data for setups and also use weekly data as well.
> Depending on work I sometimes use a 5 or 15 minute swing to exit
> if I am approaching a time target
> 
> Regards
> iSPI



just so you know ispi the bigger players definately play at night, especially when the london and newyork markets are open...there are plenty of people who take a swing in the adr/dlc market and then use the futures to hedge, so you still find people who are trying to trade size. Problem is, as you say, it is illiquid as hell, so if the trader needs to get set, they are not worried about paying thru the offer for 3 or 4 ticks or selling thru the bid etc


----------



## spitrader1

iSPI said:
			
		

> 1: Sycom does some wierd things thats for sure.
> Is it reliable? it has been for me.
> I was taught to ignore sycom and don't even put a stop loss on overnight
> thats just plain crazy.
> I haven't tried this system intraday (but I do plan to) previous systems
> did not make sufficient profit intraday so I had to hold overnight.
> I found often my profit target was hit overnight but I missed it.
> Since Sycom is going to impact my trade I think I was silly for ignoring it.
> I'm not sure if the big players actually trade the night session...
> 
> 2: I use a EOD data for setups and also use weekly data as well.
> Depending on work I sometimes use a 5 or 15 minute swing to exit
> if I am approaching a time target
> 
> Regards
> iSPI




ps..well done on ure short call and not buying back, the market certainly did tip over into the close!!


----------



## iSPI

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> just so you know ispi the bigger players definately play at night, especially when the london and newyork markets are open...there are plenty of people who take a swing in the adr/dlc market and then use the futures to hedge, so you still find people who are trying to trade size. Problem is, as you say, it is illiquid as hell, so if the trader needs to get set, they are not worried about paying thru the offer for 3 or 4 ticks or selling thru the bid etc




Thanks spitrader1


----------



## iSPI

For those tuning in my entry was in fact 5171 being the OPEN
as per my order, I posted 5175 earlier because thats what I thought
the message on mobile said which I thought was strange.
I have had a point slippage before but never 4.

Lets see what Sycom serves me up tonight will I wake up
 :jump:  or  :fan


----------



## spitrader1

iSPI said:
			
		

> For those tuning in my entry was in fact 5171 being the OPEN
> as per my order, I posted 5175 earlier because thats what I thought
> the message on mobile said which I thought was strange.
> I have had a point slippage before but never 4.
> 
> Lets see what Sycom serves me up tonight will I wake up
> :jump:  or  :fan



you went within a whisker of being stopped out!!! 5207 high!!


----------



## iSPI

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> you went within a whisker of being stopped out!!! 5207 high!!




Good old Sycom, it sure bounced off 5133.
and my 19 point profit  per contract went to -28, now comes the tricky part.

Today can of course do 3 things
up,down or sidewards.

I will NOT be placing my stop loss before the open, I want to see what 
the open does.


----------



## spitrader1

iSPI said:
			
		

> Good old Sycom, it sure bounced off 5133.
> and my 19 point profit  per contract went to -28, now comes the tricky part.
> 
> Today can of course do 3 things
> up,down or sidewards.
> 
> I will NOT be placing my stop loss before the open, I want to see what
> the open does.



i just had a quick scalp ispi trading my dow theory..bought 2 @ 5202, as the cash opened everyone rushed to cover there shorts, sold @ 5213


----------



## Euler

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> i just had a quick scalp ispi trading my dow theory..bought 2 @ 5202, as the cash opened everyone rushed to cover there shorts, sold @ 5213



Good trade and very nimble too .... how do you see the rest of the day panning out? .... do you see it holding the gains above 5200's or is it a a strong resistance level?


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> 'Trading the SPI'
> Sycom closed at 4966
> If we open around here on Monday
> Then we will be looking to Buy the SPI



_Sat 23rd Sept 12.54PM_

Our Target is 5222


----------



## spitrader1

Euler said:
			
		

> Good trade and very nimble too .... how do you see the rest of the day panning out? .... do you see it holding the gains above 5200's or is it a a strong resistance level?



probably get up towards the 5230 range at some stage before settling around the 5210 mark...


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Our Target is 5222



Our timeframe is this weekend


----------



## Euler

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> probably get up towards the 5230 range at some stage before settling around the 5210 mark...



... and there it is ... the first part on its way.  good call. ... where do I learn these skills????


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Our Target is 5222



Now 5218  
Todays 1 min SPI:


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> 'Trading the SPI'
> Sycom closed at 4966
> If we open around here on Monday
> Then we will be looking to Buy the SPI



SPI Daily chart:


----------



## spitrader1

Euler said:
			
		

> ... and there it is ... the first part on its way.  good call. ... where do I learn these skills????



euler it has taken me years and years unfortunately...


----------



## Bronte

SPI now 5212


----------



## Bronte

5222 is holding very well.  
We are of course a day early.


----------



## Euler

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> euler it has taken me years and years unfortunately...



Thanks spitrader1 .... I understand.  Do you see it retracing back to your original entry point or in the region 5170-80?


----------



## spitrader1

Euler said:
			
		

> Thanks spitrader1 .... I understand.  Do you see it retracing back to your original entry point or in the region 5170-80?



euler i would say from here it may fall smalls below 5200 and then bounce back above into the close to finish around abouts where we are now...dont try and catch a falling knife though...as i orginially said a close above 5200 (smalls) is where i think the day will finish up.


----------



## Euler

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> ...dont try and catch a falling knife though...as i orginially said a close above 5200 (smalls) is where i think the day will finish up.



I see what you mean by the falling knife .... my hands were well clear!!
Again .... intraday top call.


----------



## iSPI

I'm still in there.
Nice spitrader1

Didn't panic this morning as the other shorts covered but I see we are up there again so i better keep my mind on the job


----------



## spitrader1

iSPI said:
			
		

> I'm still in there.
> Nice spitrader1
> 
> Didn't panic this morning as the other shorts covered but I see we are up there again so i better keep my mind on the job



good talk today fellow spiers, im outta here unfortuantely for some real work...may the spi be with you


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Our timeframe is this weekend



Todays 5 min SPI chart:


----------



## Bronte

SPI Daily:


----------



## Bobby

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> i just had a quick scalp ispi trading my dow theory..bought 2 @ 5202, as the cash opened everyone rushed to cover there shorts, sold @ 5213




Now this gets interesting , does the Dow and  S&P500 follow the SPI or the other way round ?

Found it amusing that bronte poped up & up, even answered its own posts about We & Us , posted charts with lines plus arrows    , uh'mm to deep for me ? 

Bob.


----------



## Bronte

Bobby said:
			
		

> Now this gets interesting , does the Dow and S&P500 follow the SPI or the other way round ?
> Bob.



Believe it or not Bob...the Dow follows us


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Believe it or not Bob...the Dow follows us




So, the US institutional investors are sitting there, prior to the open, frozen with self doubt, wondering what to do next....

"Dagnabbit Elmer! Let's see what those danged Aussies are up to!"

LOLOLOLOLOLOL


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> *Believe it or not Bob...the Dow follows us *



We had an in depth discussion on this subject here at ASF last year.
Just have a looksie at the world map Wayne.


----------



## Bobby

wayneL said:
			
		

> So, the US institutional investors are sitting there, prior to the open, frozen with self doubt, wondering what to do next....
> 
> "Dagnabbit Elmer! Let's see what those danged Aussies are up to!"
> 
> LOLOLOLOLOLOL



  

Good one !!!

( but there maybe something   )


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> We had an in depth discussion on this subject here at ASF last year.
> Just have a looksie at the world map Wayne.




*What will the world map tell us?*

It tells me that in the same (or similar) time zone we have Hong Kong, Tokyo, and Shanghai and the ASX is only about 1.5% of world capitisation... so... which market is the US following again?? (if any)

ROFL


----------



## wayneL

Oh yeah! There is the small matter of Europe to consider as well... London, Frankfurt, Paris, etc

pfffft


----------



## wayneL

Rankings of Exchanges by Market Capitalization (in trillions of US dollars)

   1. New York Stock Exchange - $22.7
   2. Tokyo Stock Exchange - $4.65
   3. NASDAQ - $3.76
   4. London Stock Exchange - $3.25
   5. Euronext - $2.96
   6. Toronto Stock Exchange - $1.62
   7. Frankfurt Stock Exchange (Deutsche BÃ¶rse) - $1.38
   8. Hong Kong Stock Exchange - $1.30
   9. Milan Stock Exchange (Borsa Italiana) - $0.89
  10. Madrid Stock Exchange (BME Spanish Exchanges)
  11. SWX Swiss Exchange


----------



## Bobby

wayneL said:
			
		

> Rankings of Exchanges by Market Capitalization (in trillions of US dollars)
> 
> 1. New York Stock Exchange - $22.7
> 2. Tokyo Stock Exchange - $4.65
> 3. NASDAQ - $3.76
> 4. London Stock Exchange - $3.25
> 5. Euronext - $2.96
> 6. Toronto Stock Exchange - $1.62
> 7. Frankfurt Stock Exchange (Deutsche BÃ¶rse) - $1.38
> 8. Hong Kong Stock Exchange - $1.30
> 9. Milan Stock Exchange (Borsa Italiana) - $0.89
> 10. Madrid Stock Exchange (BME Spanish Exchanges)
> 11. SWX Swiss Exchange




Hello W.L

Greetings.
Now who have you missed   


Cheers Bob


----------



## wayneL

Bobby said:
			
		

> Now who have you missed




I am trying to find out where our barrow boys fit in on the world scale... doesn't seem to even rate a mention


----------



## Bobby

wayneL said:
			
		

> I am trying to find out where our barrow boys fit in on the world scale... doesn't seem to even rate a mention



 Your OK mate !
Sure you missed a couple of players, see who picks them,
us Ausses not included.

Have Fun..
Bob.


----------



## doctorj

At the end of August, the ASX's domestic market capitilisation was 	1,220,385 million.


----------



## spitrader1

Bobby said:
			
		

> Now this gets interesting , does the Dow and  S&P500 follow the SPI or the other way round ?
> 
> Found it amusing that bronte poped up & up, even answered its own posts about We & Us , posted charts with lines plus arrows    , uh'mm to deep for me ?
> 
> Bob.



just to qualify bob, my dow theory is based upon how prop traders and assett managers will position themselves at the end of each day and there reactions following the dow movement the next day...i trade upon these movements and nothing else..and i agree, bronte still not making sense...


----------



## Bobby

Gee just thought about those other players, although huge most of there plays are through external exchanges .

Sorry Wayne for putting you on the spot -   

Bob.


----------



## spitrader1

Bobby said:
			
		

> Gee just thought about those other players, although huge most of there plays are through external exchanges .
> 
> Sorry Wayne for putting you on the spot -
> 
> Bob.[/QUO
> not sure i get what u are saying bob


----------



## Bobby

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> there reactions following the dow movement the next day...i trade upon these movements and nothing else..and i agree, bronte still not making sense...



 Hello Spitrader,

First ` what day are you talking about , our day there day next day ? please qualify .  

As for my intra posts with W/L best to read from the start.

Take care
Bob


----------



## Bobby

doctorj said:
			
		

> At the end of August, the ASX's domestic market capitilisation was 	1,220,385 million.



 Hello Doc,

Whats the time -frame on that figure ?

Regards
Bob.


----------



## doctorj

I'm not quite sure what your asking.

Its from August just passed.


----------



## Bobby

doctorj said:
			
		

> I'm not quite sure what your asking.
> 
> Its from August just passed.



 Well it needs a time-frame , is it over the last year or number of months etc''

Now saying that ,I must ask the same of Wayne's figures .

Thanks
Bob.


----------



## Bobby

Bobby said:
			
		

> Well it needs a time-frame , is it over the last year or number of months etc''
> 
> Now saying that ,I must ask the same of Wayne's figures .
> 
> Thanks
> Bob.



 OOh ooh, just got it !!
Please forget last post, its total cap got it, was on a different tangent of thought.

OOPs me  
Bob.


----------



## wayneL

Bobby said:
			
		

> Well it needs a time-frame , is it over the last year or number of months etc''
> 
> Now saying that ,I must ask the same of Wayne's figures .
> 
> Thanks
> Bob.



Bob,

It's not volume, it's the valuation of the market at a particular point in time

ie the sum of all companies - no.of shares x current share price.

Cheers


----------



## Bobby

wayneL said:
			
		

> Bob,
> 
> It's not volume, it's the valuation of the market at a particular point in time
> 
> ie the sum of all companies - no.of shares x current share price.
> 
> Cheers



Yes you're correct, I just woke up to my own crap, see post before this.
Gee's I stuffed up some to tonight, sorry to the Doc also.

Thanks for your kindness
Bob.


----------



## spitrader1

Bobby said:
			
		

> Hello Spitrader,
> 
> First ` what day are you talking about , our day there day next day ? please qualify .
> 
> As for my intra posts with W/L best to read from the start.
> 
> Take care
> Bob



For example, I thought on wednesday night night not many people would have gone home confidently massively long, and if they did, they would have been short futures to hedge......dow rallies whatever, so this morning they need to cover. I wait until just before the cash opens and watch the futures market, it usually (85% win rate) follows a predictable pattern.


----------



## Bobby

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> For example, I thought on wednesday night night not many people would have gone home confidently massively long, and if they did, they would have been short futures to hedge......dow rallies whatever, so this morning they need to cover. I wait untill just before the cash opens and watch the futures market, it usually (85% win rate) follows a predictable pattern.



Thanks for the info Spitrader, now I will remember your response.  
You will be repaid for your candidness !

Best Wishes
Bob.


----------



## spitrader1

Bobby said:
			
		

> Thanks for the info Spitrader, now I will remember your response.
> You will be repaid for your candidness !
> 
> Best Wishes
> Bob.



No problems, im off, hope all the dow punters remember on the opening bell to think about what the aussie market is going to do....hehehheeh, best ever!!


----------



## nat

I agree with bronte to a certain extent ,it seems the dow follows us but its just the big players positioning them selves in our market so can take advantage when the US market moves how they think or how they want it to move, australia being a small market it is easier for them to profit as easy to move one way or other to there advantage ,Bettter probabilities for them?.
Nathan


----------



## spitrader1

nat said:
			
		

> I agree with bronte to a certain extent ,it seems the dow follows us but its just the big players positioning them selves in our market so can take advantage when the US market moves how they think or how they want it to move, australia being a small market it is easier for them to profit as easy to move one way or other to there advantage ,Bettter probabilities for them?.
> Nathan



I have to disagree nathan. The traders that move the US market in any sort of size dont bother trading the aussie market, and the bigger players that move the aussie market are small fish in the US. If we are talking just about ADR's then i agree, there are traders from the aussie market who can push around BHP and RIO in the US/LDN and then take a profit in the SPI here, but those traders would not have the same impact on the DOW as a whole.


----------



## spitrader1

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> For example, I thought on wednesday night night not many people would have gone home confidently massively long, and if they did, they would have been short futures to hedge......dow rallies whatever, so this morning they need to cover. I wait until just before the cash opens and watch the futures market, it usually (85% win rate) follows a predictable pattern.



watched BHP on the open this morning and there were a few big bids that didnt get filled on the open, so assuming they would have to be filled they payed up, stock went up 6 cents, the future went with it, i bought 2@ 5235, sold 2 @ 5243 for a quick scalp.


----------



## Euler

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> i bought 2@ 5235, sold 2 @ 5243 for a quick scalp.



again par for course ....well done and fleet-of-foot .... but where is it going.  Are they playing with us now?  I was expecting a good solid move above the close of SYCOM (5249), but it decided to head south.  Is this reverse psychology at work?  Is it a setup for a big close?  Have thrown a left-fielder but maybe that's their ploy for today.


----------



## spitrader1

Euler said:
			
		

> again par for course ....well done and fleet-of-foot .... but where is it going.  Are they playing with us now?  I was expecting a good solid move above the close of SYCOM (5249), but it decided to head south.  Is this reverse psychology at work?  Is it a setup for a big close?  Have thrown a left-fielder but maybe that's their ploy for today.



not sure euler, its a tough one today, im almost happy to log out and be happy for the weekend...i wouldnt be surprised to see the market rally back up to the 5240 level, then over lunch fall by the wayside back down to 5220's before finishing around the 5230 level, but then again, and this why i only trade the open and the close, i could be very wrong.


----------



## professor_frink

Euler said:
			
		

> again par for course ....well done and fleet-of-foot .... but where is it going.  Are they playing with us now?  I was expecting a good solid move above the close of SYCOM (5249), but it decided to head south.  Is this reverse psychology at work?  Is it a setup for a big close?  Have thrown a left-fielder but maybe that's their ploy for today.




I have 2 pivot levels @49 and 54, so won't really be looking for longs till that's out of the way  .

Well done this morning spitrader


----------



## Bronte

Keep up the good work lads. 
Nice to see a new High


----------



## mikeg

Hi all,

I originally posted this in The SPI Pit but as of yet have not received an answer, so I thought I would try here.

Could someone please tell me what the difference is between the Futures Contract and the Cash Contract. They always seem to be the same distance apart and the charts of each seem to react the same.

Is there an advantage of trading one over the other, as in liquidity, less erratic, lower margins or whatever.

As you can guess I am new to "The Spi", so any information would be helpfull.


----------



## professor_frink

mikeg said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> 
> I originally posted this in The SPI Pit but as of yet have not received an answer, so I thought I would try here.
> 
> Could someone please tell me what the difference is between the Futures Contract and the Cash Contract. They always seem to be the same distance apart and the charts of each seem to react the same.
> 
> Is there an advantage of trading one over the other, as in liquidity, less erratic, lower margins or whatever.
> 
> As you can guess I am new to "The Spi", so any information would be helpfull.



G'day Mikeg,
 the SPI is based on the cash market. The futures market will be slightly different, due to the cost of carry, which is basically whatever the interest rate is - the dividend yield of the index, multiplied by the days to contract expiry, or something like that. Sorry for the vague answer, I'm not at home today, and don't have much info in front of me 

They move pretty well the same. In regards to which you should trade, I don't know how you'd trade the cash market. You can trade index options, and there is an ETF, but it's not hugely liquid like some of the ETF's in the U.S, so if you want to trade the index, then trading the SPI is the way to go.


----------



## Euler

professor_frink said:
			
		

> I have 2 pivot levels @49 and 54, so won't really be looking for longs till that's out of the way  .
> Well done this morning spitrader



Interesting levels prof ... it looks like it may be giving a long signal as I write ... but may be short lived or scalp.  But as spitrader said ... "this why i only trade the open and the close" ... and he seems to be correct many more times than the opposite.  So I don't trust it, and will be back for the post lunch merriment.


----------



## mikeg

Thanks Prof, as I mentioned, I still have a lot to learn.
Have already learn't a lot from all the information that can be gleened from many of the Posts.


----------



## professor_frink

Euler said:
			
		

> Interesting levels prof ... it looks like it may be giving a long signal as I write ... but may be short lived or scalp.  But as spitrader said ... "this why i only trade the open and the close" ... and he seems to be correct many more times than the opposite.  So I don't trust it, and will be back for the post lunch merriment.




Here's the visual for what I was talking about earlier. Daily Pivot @22,R1@49 and weekly R1@54.

Not much action for young professor types today


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Nice to see a new High



Todays SPI chart:


----------



## spitrader1

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> not sure euler, its a tough one today, im almost happy to log out and be happy for the weekend...i wouldnt be surprised to see the market rally back up to the 5240 level, then over lunch fall by the wayside back down to 5220's before finishing around the 5230 level, but then again, and this why i only trade the open and the close, i could be very wrong.



COULD I HAVE BEEN ANY MORE CORRECT??


----------



## Bobby

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> COULD I HAVE BEEN ANY MORE CORRECT??



 Impressive call Spitrader!

Regards 
Bob.


----------



## spitrader1

Bobby said:
			
		

> Impressive call Spitrader!
> 
> Regards
> Bob.



thanks bobby, had some work to do and couldnt believe it when i logged back on this afternoon...hehehe


----------



## Bobby

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> thanks bobby, had some work to do and couldnt believe it when i logged back on this afternoon...hehehe



My congratulations again ! keep posting .
When you pick it wrong So what, just keep going   

Regards Bob.


----------



## Bobby

Some time ago I mentioned the fact that there is no regulatory control on insider trading that apply to futures in Australia like in the US.
Now why do you think that is ?  

Hint : Think of the advantage a US institution could have taking positions on the SPI. 

Bob.


----------



## spitrader1

could be a ho-hum day today guys, might just sit out, i think the market will be pushed around by order flow, which is never good to trade...


----------



## spitrader1

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> could be a ho-hum day today guys, might just sit out, i think the market will be pushed around by order flow, which is never good to trade...



+2 @32, ill see what happens, 25 stop loss...


----------



## spitrader1

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> +2 @32, ill see what happens, 25 stop loss...



out at 37 for a quick scalp, i think there may be an opportunity here as well just before the cash opens.


----------



## Euler

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> COULD I HAVE BEEN ANY MORE CORRECT??



.. also very impressed spitrader ....well called.  When others were calling big move day (not necessarily on here btw), you nailed it.  And thanks for the comments re today .... will look on with interest and devour it as part of the education process.


----------



## spitrader1

Euler said:
			
		

> .. also very impressed spitrader ....well called.  When others were calling big move day (not necessarily on here btw), you nailed it.  And thanks for the comments re today .... will look on with interest and devour it as part of the education process.



cheers euler....thats it for me today folkes......i cant see a big move either way today, possibly on the downside if anything due to lack of interest!! im off to the beach


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Keep up the good work lads.
> Nice to see a new High



*'Trading the SPI'*
We will soon get back to 2000 posts at this rate


----------



## Bronte

Fridays timeframe *High* is looking very good


----------



## spitrader1

Bronte said:
			
		

> Fridays timeframe *High* is looking very good



does anyone else know any other spi trading forums out there.....this just aint cutting it at the moment....hardly anyone seems to be posting!!


----------



## Bobby

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> does anyone else know any other spi trading forums out there.....this just aint cutting it at the moment....hardly anyone seems to be posting!!


----------



## Bobby

Unknown direction  with no big move today ? yep maybe.   
Not the time to try a straddle buying SPIDO puts & calls at the same strike.

Bob.


----------



## Euler

Looking for a test of 40 ... if it fails then will go short


----------



## Bobby

Euler said:
			
		

> Looking for a test of 40 ... if it fails then will go short



Whats your timing on this ? Euler.
Looking hard at the short now.

Bob.


----------



## Euler

Bobby said:
			
		

> Whats your timing on this ? Euler.
> Looking hard at the short now.
> Bob.



off 5 & 15 min chart ... didn't get there


----------



## Euler

Euler said:
			
		

> off 5 & 15 min chart ... didn't get there



was looking hit 40 or 1 point under (not over!) and rejection.  got to 38 and I suppose i should have been happy with that (20/20 vision is a wonderful tool!) but decided not to chase it after it just missed my target.


----------



## Euler

Euler said:
			
		

> off 5 & 15 min chart ... didn't get there



lol ... anyone take it? ... if you did ... well done!!


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Our timeframe *High* is this weekend



Hi Euler,
We sold this morning.
Stoploss one point above Fridays High
As per our chart posted on Thursday 
Post #1682 5th October 06
Large down day expected. 
Now 5196


----------



## Bronte

Euler said:
			
		

> lol ... anyone take it? ... if you did ... well done!!



Thanks


----------



## Bobby

Euler said:
			
		

> lol ... anyone take it? ... if you did ... well done!!




Just watched it crumble also


----------



## spitrader1

Bronte said:
			
		

> Hi Euler,
> We sold this morning.
> Stoploss one point above Fridays High
> As per our chart posted on Thursday
> Large down day expected.
> Now 5196



the down day has got nothing to do with charts or elliot wave or gann or anythings else...if you dont know why the SPI and equities are under pressure from about 1234 onwards, you should not be trading.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Hi Euler,
> We sold this morning.
> Stoploss one point above Fridays High
> *As per our chart posted on Thursday
> Post #1682 5th October 06*
> Large down day expected.
> Now 5196



As per our call Thursday


----------



## Bronte

Now 5192   
Down 48 points


----------



## spitrader1

Bronte said:
			
		

> As per our call Thursday



im happy for you bronte, but the SPI is under pressure for other reasons..


----------



## mikeg

> Origianally posted by *Spitrader*
> im happy for you bronte, but the SPI is under pressure for other reasons..




Do you mind sharing those reasons with us?


----------



## Bobby

Bronte said:
			
		

> We sold this morning.
> Stoploss one point above Fridays High
> As per our chart posted on Thursday
> Post #1682 5th October 06
> Large down day expected.
> Now 5196



 Am I missing something   That post you quote ( 1682 ) did'nt say anything ?
Are you saying you went short last week & then bought back today for a profit of  ?? points.

Cheers
Bob.


----------



## neo

I agree Spitrader 1.
After midday Asian markets opened........ N. Koreas nuke test put a bit a bit of a negative spin on the Asian markets including ours!!!!


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> *'Trading the SPI'*
> We will soon get back to 2000 posts at this rate



Why is this important?


----------



## spitrader1

wayneL said:
			
		

> Why is this important?



its not wayne, and you took the words right out of my mouth


----------



## spitrader1

neo said:
			
		

> I agree Spitrader 1.
> After midday Asian markets opened........ N. Koreas nuke test put a bit a bit of a negative spin on the Asian markets including ours!!!!



correct neo.


----------



## spitrader1

Bobby said:
			
		

> Am I missing something   That post you quote ( 1682 ) did'nt say anything ?
> Are you saying you went short last week & then bought back today for a profit of  ?? points.
> 
> Cheers
> Bob.



well done bob. i got sick of wasting my time posting about catching bronte out and i couldnt be bothered with the fights, so im glad somone else has woken up. just wait, if the dow rallies 300 points tonight, bronte not only covered her short today at the low, but also went long due to gann/elliot wave/filling gap levels.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Keep up the good work lads.
> Nice to see a new High



Todays SPI chart:


----------



## Bronte

Bobby said:
			
		

> Am I missing something   That post you quote ( 1682 ) did'nt say anything ?
> Are you saying you went short last week & then bought back today for a profit of  ?? points.



No Bob,
We bought Monday 4964 25th September 
Sold 5222 last Thursday expecting a new HIGH
on Friday 6th October (confirmation was today)  
Sold this morning, stoploss just above Friday High.
The arrows show Battmans Gann timeframe days.
(timeframe days are usually turning points)


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> No Bob,
> We bought Monday 4964 25th September
> Sold 5222 last Thursday expecting a new HIGH
> on Friday 6th October (confirmation was today)
> Sold this morning, stoploss just above Friday High.
> The arrows show Battmans Gann timeframe days.
> (timeframe days are usually turning points)




Where did you post the trades?


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> 'Trading the SPI'
> Sycom closed at 4966
> If we open around here on Monday
> Then we will be looking to Buy the SPI



Here Wayne


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> _Sat 23rd Sept 12.54PM_
> 
> Our Target is 5222



and here Wayne


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Hi Euler,
> We sold this morning.
> Stoploss one point above Fridays High
> As per our chart posted on Thursday
> Post #1682 5th October 06
> Large down day expected.
> Now 5196



Answer to Eulers question only  
Not posted beforehand this one


----------



## Bronte

wayneL said:
			
		

> Where did you post the trades?



Here at ASF...beforehand Wayne 
Please check dates and times.


----------



## spitrader1

Bronte said:
			
		

> Here at ASF...beforehand Wayne
> Please check dates and times.



bronte, and please, just answer the question in plain english..do you beleive the fall in the spi today was because of some gann theory type arrangement?? just a yes or no would be suffice, if you wish to qualify please do in simple terms.


----------



## swingstar

Has NK really had an effect? Interestingly the FTSE is up, yet other Europe markets are down. US market futures are currently down.


----------



## spitrader1

swingstar said:
			
		

> Has NK really had an effect? Interestingly the FTSE is up, yet other Europe markets are down. US market futures are currently down.



it certainly did when the news came out here initially swingstar.....if you have a look at todays graph of when the news came out on bloomy as a headline (around 1234) you can see the market lose 40 odd points almost...obviosuly it recoverd from there to finish at 5222...


----------



## professor_frink

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> it certainly did when the news came out here initially swingstar.....if you have a look at todays graph of when the news came out on bloomy as a headline (around 1234) you can see the market lose 40 odd points almost...obviosuly it recoverd from there to finish at 5222...




The Kospi was in freefall well before 12. What time did the news first air?


----------



## spitrader1

professor_frink said:
			
		

> The Kospi was in freefall well before 12. What time did the news first air?



there was a headline on reuters around 1240 mark from memory,


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Bronte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Trading the SPI'
> Sycom closed at 4966
> If we open around here on Monday
> Then we will be *looking* to Buy the SPI
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here Wayne
Click to expand...



But no post on Monday to say "I have bought at the open" or whatever?

Line ball as far as I am concerned... a hedged call.


----------



## spitrader1

wayneL said:
			
		

> But no post on Monday to say "I have bought at the open" or whatever?
> 
> Line ball as far as I am concerned... a hedged call.



Wayne i agree whole heartedly


----------



## Bobby

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> well done bob. i got sick of wasting my time posting about catching bronte out and i couldnt be bothered with the fights, so im glad somone else has woken up. just wait, if the dow rallies 300 points tonight, bronte not only covered her short today at the low, but also went long due to gann/elliot wave/filling gap levels.




Spitrader thanks for the laugh,   just can't wait for the next winning trade !


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Good morning.
> This is fantastic guys
> Opposing views & discussion on 'Trading the SPI'
> We have a Gann Fibonacci 50% level at 4964
> Welcome Nick.



No problem guys  
Just one little question........
Why take two weeks to question this one?


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> No problem guys
> Just one little question........
> Why take two weeks to question this one?



We are really not here to call 'live' trades.
Just to discuss *'Trading the SPI' *


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> No problem guys
> Just one little question........
> Why take two weeks to question this one?




People like to review I guess.

Now I have another little question. What is the relevence of quoting yourself thus: (in Post #1770)



> Originally Posted by Bronte
> Good morning.
> This is fantastic guys
> Opposing views & discussion on 'Trading the SPI'
> We have a Gann Fibonacci 50% level at 4964
> Welcome Nick.


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> We are really not here to call 'live' trades.
> Just to discuss *'Trading the SPI' *




Fine.

Don't call hindsite trades either then.


----------



## Bronte

*"We have a Gann Fibonacci 50% level at 4964"*

We have often posted that we *always* trade strong
Gann Support / Resistance levels...this was one that
was posted minutes before the SPI opened.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> *"We have a Gann Fibonacci 50% level at 4964"*
> 
> We have often posted that we *always* trade strong
> Gann Support / Resistance levels...this was one that
> was posted minutes before the SPI opened.



Nick Radge was on line and actively posting


----------



## Bronte

*Now for something positive......
What are the markets going to do tomorrow Wayne?*


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> *"We have a Gann Fibonacci 50% level at 4964"*
> 
> We have often posted that we *always* trade strong
> Gann Support / Resistance levels...this was one that
> was posted minutes before the SPI opened.




If you discussed what that actually means, it might actually have some relevence to someone, instead of being glib self congratulation.


----------



## Bobby

Bronte said:
			
		

> No problem guys
> Just one little question........
> Why take two weeks to question this one?




*Ambiguity*


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Now for something positive......
> What are the markets going to do tomorrow Wayne?




I'll tell you Wednesday


----------



## Bronte

wayneL said:
			
		

> I'll tell you Wednesday


----------



## Bronte

I thought I would get in before Bob 

*No really Wayne, 
What are the markets going to do tomorrow?*
Dow up/Down
Will we open Low and go up
Open High and go down???

(This is a 'Trading the SPI' thread not....
'Attack Bronte' thread)


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> I thought I would get in before Bob




LOL



			
				Bronte said:
			
		

> *No really Wayne,
> What are the markets going to do tomorrow?*
> Dow up/Down
> Will we open Low and go up
> Open High and go down???




US:

It depends if the market is in Goldilocks mode

If people are still self delusion, just buy any dip.

If people are actually analyzing the situation, short sell with everything you have.

Aus:

Just watch metals. ASX = proxy fro metals/oil



			
				Bronte said:
			
		

> (This is a 'Trading the SPI' thread not....
> 'Attack Bronte' thread)




Attack?

You have persecution complex. A real attack would be viscious, relentless, nasty... and ASF is just not that sort of place  No... this is how real traders play, this is just recreation. 

To quote Chopper Reid... Toughen the #### up.

You are not being attacked.


----------



## Bronte

Thanks Wayne.....very interesting


----------



## Bronte

Maybe we should get back to your
policy about three weeks ago.....
Any posts off topic to be deleted or
moved to the 'Spi Pit'


----------



## Bronte

wayneL said:
			
		

> Don't call hindsite trades either then.



Hindsight trades to be deleted immediately
(not two weeks later)


----------



## Bronte

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> does anyone else know any other spi trading forums out there.....this just aint cutting it at the moment....hardly anyone seems to be posting!!



Tighter moderation should bring SPI posters back.


----------



## Bobby

Bronte said:
			
		

> Hindsight trades to be deleted immediately
> (not two weeks later)




No one has called you a - dilettante of delusion ' so sit back & enjoy the  thread  : 

Regards Bob.


----------



## Bronte

Let us just post on topic.


----------



## Bronte

We do enjoy this thread...very much


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Tighter moderation should bring SPI posters back.




You should be careful what you wish for


----------



## dutchie

wayneL said:
			
		

> I'll tell you Wednesday




lol    

Wayne you've got your crystal ball turned on to reverse instead of forward!


----------



## spitrader1

Bronte said:
			
		

> I thought I would get in before Bob
> 
> *No really Wayne,
> What are the markets going to do tomorrow?*
> Dow up/Down
> Will we open Low and go up
> Open High and go down???
> 
> (This is a 'Trading the SPI' thread not....
> 'Attack Bronte' thread)



bronte, i did this three or four days ago, and called the whole session from about 11 onwards to a tee, using no ta analysis, big words, ambiguity, or hindsight...just asl euler or bobby. trading the spi is not hard, but you make it seem a terribly complex animal...


----------



## professor_frink

here's my call-
I will buy a low open.
OR
I will sell a high open.

Today is a "professor" time day.

These are special days that usually have the word "week" in front of them.

If there is a "low open" or a "high open" on these days, I will usually take a trade.


----------



## professor_frink

professor_frink said:
			
		

> here's my call-
> I will buy a low open.
> OR
> I will sell a high open.
> 
> Today is a "professor" time day.
> 
> These are special days that usually have the word "week" in front of them.
> 
> If there is a "low open" or a "high open" on these days, I will usually take a trade.




Professor "time" days have an unusually high level of accuracy. I have a 99% success rate trading like this


----------



## professor_frink

professor_frink said:
			
		

> here's my call-
> I will buy a low open.
> OR
> I will sell a high open.
> 
> Today is a "professor" time day.
> 
> These are special days that usually have the word "week" in front of them.
> 
> If there is a "low open" or a "high open" on these days, I will usually take a trade.




nearly 1800 posts. What a great thread  

There sure is alot of interest in Trading the SPI using professor "time" days.

And the above quote is important to what I've just said.


----------



## spitrader1

professor_frink said:
			
		

> here's my call-
> I will buy a low open.
> OR
> I will sell a high open.
> 
> Today is a "professor" time day.
> 
> These are special days that usually have the word "week" in front of them.
> 
> If there is a "low open" or a "high open" on these days, I will usually take a trade.



what is a professor time day


----------



## professor_frink

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> what is a professor time day




These are special days that my expert professor trading guru give me at the start of the year. They have the word week in front of them. 

These "weekdays" occur between Monday and Friday, and there is usually alot of trading activity


----------



## Bronte

Dow +7.6 points overnight
Sycom +26 points   Wow!


----------



## spitrader1

im going to the chat room if anyone wants to join me


----------



## Bronte

No thank you  
This is our busiest time of day.


----------



## spitrader1

Bronte said:
			
		

> No thank you
> This is our busiest time of day.



it must be reassuring for you that you have to reassure yourself that you have things to do.


----------



## spitrader1

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> im going to the chat room if anyone wants to join me



off that, chat room not working


----------



## Euler

scalped 4 points on open with taken out my stop ... set it too tight.  now at the top of my trading range but looks like wanting to go higher.  looking on sidelines now.

PS ... keep up the calls spitrader, yr on the money in calling them


----------



## spitrader1

Euler said:
			
		

> scalped 4 points on open with taken out my stop ... set it too tight.  now at the top of my trading range but looks like wanting to go higher.  looking on sidelines now.
> 
> PS ... keep up the calls spitrader, yr on the money in calling them



really hard today euler, i havent traded even one lot yet...


----------



## Euler

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> really hard today euler, i havent traded even one lot yet...



looks range bound already?? .... 40-50?? .... or is this the calm before an explosive move? ... sitting clean


----------



## professor_frink

Check out this move on the nikkei this morning gentlemen! Whilst our market has been a bit tough to read this morning(well for me anyway), there have been some ripper opportunities elsewhere


----------



## Euler

professor_frink said:
			
		

> Check out this move on the nikkei this morning gentlemen! Whilst our market has been a bit tough to read this morning(well for me anyway), there have been some ripper opportunities elsewhere



prof do you trade it?  ... what other markets do you monitor/trade?


----------



## professor_frink

Euler said:
			
		

> prof do you trade it? ... what other markets do you monitor/trade?



yeah I trade it. Currently only trade the nikkei and the SPI. Keep an eye on the hang seng, Kospi and STW, but don't trade those at this stage.

The hang seng I'm a little scared of, so it will prob be a while before I get stuck into that one


----------



## Bobby

professor_frink said:
			
		

> Professor "time" days have an unusually high level of accuracy. I have a 99% success rate trading like this




Hello Professor,

Your "time' days are 99% successful   
Thats an extraordinary claim that needs explanation ? care to.

Cheers
Bob.


----------



## professor_frink

I'm in chat if anyone wants to join in


----------



## Bobby

Just tried to talk on chat with no luck ?


----------



## Magdoran

professor_frink said:
			
		

> These are special days that my expert professor trading guru give me at the start of the year. They have the word week in front of them.
> 
> These "weekdays" occur between Monday and Friday, and there is usually alot of trading activity



Love the satire Professor!


You almost made me spill my tea this morning.  Lucky I had a saucer!

Very funny parody, most amusing.


Mag


----------



## spitrader1

Magdoran said:
			
		

> Love the satire Professor!
> 
> 
> You almost made me spill my tea this morning.  Lucky I had a saucer!
> 
> Very funny parody, most amusing.
> 
> 
> Mag



it was very good mag...just so everyone knows a couple of us had a really good chat today using the chat room, there was even a live trade included. Best education ive had so far using ASF


----------



## professor_frink

Magdoran said:
			
		

> Love the satire Professor!
> 
> 
> You almost made me spill my tea this morning.  Lucky I had a saucer!
> 
> Very funny parody, most amusing.
> 
> 
> Mag




Glad you liked it Mag! Maybe this internet thing should come with a warning-

"May contain traces of nuts, who make silly comments that can cause you to spill your tea"



			
				Bobby said:
			
		

> Just tried to talk on chat with no luck ?



you kept coming into the chatroom, then disappearing. Dunno what was going on


----------



## Bobby

professor_frink said:
			
		

> you kept coming into the chatroom, then disappearing. Dunno what was going on



Yep' I got in but something froze on my PC ?
How can you scroll back on chat to see what was said Professor ?  

Thanks bob,.


----------



## doctorj

So who do you folk use to trade the indexes?  Man Financial, CMC, IG?  Any recommendations or warnings you'd like to share?


----------



## professor_frink

Bobby said:
			
		

> Yep' I got in but something froze on my PC ?
> How can you scroll back on chat to see what was said Professor ?
> 
> Thanks bob,.




I had that problem the first time I tried using it. I was using firefox at the time, I switched it over to IE and it worked fine. Today, I had it fired up with firefox and it was good. It might just be a bit buggy  

I'm not sure that you can go back and see. Maybe Joe might be able to tell you.



			
				doctorj said:
			
		

> So who do you folk use to trade the indexes? Man Financial, CMC, IG? Any recommendations or warnings you'd like to share?




I use IB. Apart from a couple of minor problems with getting used to their platform when I first started, I have no complaints about them at all.


----------



## spitrader1

professor_frink said:
			
		

> I had that problem the first time I tried using it. I was using firefox at the time, I switched it over to IE and it worked fine. Today, I had it fired up with firefox and it was good. It might just be a bit buggy
> 
> I'm not sure that you can go back and see. Maybe Joe might be able to tell you.
> 
> 
> 
> I use IB. Apart from a couple of minor problems with getting used to their platform when I first started, I have no complaints about them at all.



i use broker1


----------



## Bobby

doctorj said:
			
		

> So who do you folk use to trade the indexes?  Man Financial, CMC, IG?  Any recommendations or warnings you'd like to share?



Hello Doc,

I just opened a account with IG, they don't charge any commission to trade indexes just a spread.
You can trade mini contracts as well at $5 a point.
Also a free dealing platform with *Live* prices !

Bob.


----------



## spitrader1

Bobby said:
			
		

> Hello Doc,
> 
> I just opened a account with IG, they don't charge any commission to trade indexes just a spread.
> You can trade mini contracts as well at $5 a point.
> Also a free dealing platform with *Live* prices !
> 
> Bob.



bob-so does this mean when you are trading the SFE SPI you are trading a different spread than the actual SPI spread??


----------



## Bobby

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> bob-so does this mean when you are trading the SFE SPI you are trading a different spread than the actual SPI spread??



 The spread is 3 points there way based on the SFE SPI real price, long or short to get set.
Got to go out for now , so talk to you later.


----------



## spitrader1

Bobby said:
			
		

> The spread is 3 points there way based on the SFE SPI real price, long or short to get set.
> Got to go out for now , so talk to you later.



that is a licence to print money for them...


----------



## Euler

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> it was very good mag...just so everyone knows a couple of us had a really good chat today using the chat room, there was even a live trade included. Best education ive had so far using ASF



and it was a real trade ... off course a difference of opinion and different trading strategies and time frames ... but an excellent example without fanfare, "blowing my trumpet" or any smokes and mirrors ...

well done spi .... wish I had yr skills, nerve and street smart!!


----------



## Bronte

During chat this morning, 
I was asked my opinion on todays trading range.
Expected Highs of 5252/53
Expected Lows of 5214/16
I said that I had been Selling & 
gave a very good reason why.


----------



## Magdoran

professor_frink said:
			
		

> Glad you liked it Mag! Maybe this internet thing should come with a warning-
> 
> "May contain traces of nuts, who make silly comments that can cause you to spill your tea"



Yes, or start a thread called “the nutty professor”!!!  Mwahhahahaha!!!


----------



## professor_frink

Bronte said:
			
		

> During chat this morning,
> I was asked my opinion on todays trading range.
> Expected Highs of 5252/53
> Expected Lows of 5214/16
> I said that I had been Selling &
> gave a very good reason why.




Didn't you say you were too busy to chat this morning  

there were a few of us chatting for about an hour and a half and you were nowhere to be seen  



			
				Magdoran said:
			
		

> Yes, or start a thread called “the nutty professor”!!! Mwahhahahaha!!!




Who told you what I look like?


----------



## Bronte

This is getting very tedious professor.
Please ask Joe to confirm my chat 
session if you do not believe me.
Made a couple of points today.
Nice close to the SPI 
Chart to follow:


----------



## professor_frink

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> im going to the chat room if anyone wants to join me





			
				bronte said:
			
		

> No thank you
> This is our busiest time of day.




tedious? Why wouldn't I ask when you were in the chatroom  I spent most of the morning in there and didn't see you. Seems like a fairly simple question?


----------



## Bronte

I was there professor. 
It was after the open.


----------



## Bronte

Our busiest time is half an hour before the SPI Opens
when Battman draws up his day graph. I scan & email it out.


----------



## professor_frink

Bronte said:
			
		

> I was there professor.
> Soon after the open. I think




Fair enough. 

So just after the open, you were telling xxxx you were selling because you expected a move down to 5214/16?


----------



## Bronte

Today SPI chart:


----------



## Bobby

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> that is a licence to print money for them...



 And if out of market hours its 5 points


----------



## spitrader1

Bronte said:
			
		

> Our busiest time is half an hour before the SPI Opens
> when Battman draws up his day graph. I scan & email it out.



i dont know about anyone else but scanning a document on my dell pc and sending an email is at longst 5-7 minutes....and if it takes longer you guys are such big traders you should get ure secrataries to do it.


----------



## spitrader1

Bronte said:
			
		

> Today SPI chart:



i know u spend time on posting these charts bronte, so im not going to bag you straight out....Personally i find them completely useless, but thats just me...its like ure posts in the morning saying the DOW went up or down...i can find that a thousand different places for free. If anyone else finds them usefull, well thats one person so its a valid post, but if no one else does, please cease.


----------



## nat

Bobby said:
			
		

> The spread is 3 points there way based on the SFE SPI real price, long or short to get set.
> Got to go out for now , so talk to you later.



hi there ,ive just joined up with ig markets ,ic the spread is 3 points on the futures ,but is only 2 points on the asx 200 index .
Looking at both prices they move exactly the same so maybe get signal for trade off of futures but trade the index ?What im going to attempt anyway.
Nathan


----------



## doctorj

Apologies for cross posting this, but it might be useful for someone such as yourself considering getting into futures.

SFE Simulator (http://sfetradinggame.if5.com)
As it sounds.  Gives you access to free live data, but only trades during the day session.

RapidSP (http://www.tradingsimulatorsoftware.com/)
Free 15 day trial capable of supporting stocks, currencies and futures.  Download free data from their website.


----------



## Bobby

nat said:
			
		

> hi there ,ive just joined up with ig markets ,ic the spread is 3 points on the futures ,but is only 2 points on the asx 200 index .
> Looking at both prices they move exactly the same so maybe get signal for trade off of futures but trade the index ?What im going to attempt anyway.
> Nathan



 Hello Nat,
I'm now short at 5273 (index future ) no stop set !  : 

See your idea but you need more signals I think, keep an eye on the real XJO,
BHP as well.

Bob.


----------



## nat

hi bob ,yeh i got a demo of cklocke at moment ,with live charts with vol and another chart of the index beside it live,mini futures of ig very similar to real except for spread, the index not quite right  ,at least prices for ig some where near the real ones ,cmc all over the place ,from day to day,the pivot points on cmc work but for some reason .No cfd place seems to run vol on there cfd futures,does that mean it gives an edge against them if we had vol ?
Nathan


----------



## nat

Where you thinking its heading to bob ,about the 5265 to 5260 area? 
Nathan


----------



## Bronte

SPI now 5286

Our target for today is 5295  
Resistance starts here for us.
Ref.  PM's & Chat


----------



## Bobby

nat said:
			
		

> hi bob ,yeh i got a demo of cklocke at moment ,with live charts with vol and another chart of the index beside it live,mini futures of ig very similar to real except for spread, the index not quite right  ,at least prices for ig some where near the real ones ,cmc all over the place ,from day to day,the pivot points on cmc work but for some reason .No cfd place seems to run vol on there cfd futures,does that mean it gives an edge against them if we had vol ?
> Nathan



Nat I don't think you will see any vol regarding CFD futures as the spread is just a price on offer nothing more.
As you said IG price seems to almost mirror the SPI.

Yep I think its on its way down soon, not sure how far yet.
 BUT don't follow me as I may well be very wrong !

Bob.


----------



## nat

No def not following just curiuos.NAthan


----------



## Bronte

Hope you have a good 'ticker' Bob
The SPI is still going up 
5288 High


----------



## Euler

Bobby said:
			
		

> Hello Nat,
> I'm now short at 5273 (index future ) no stop set !  :
> See your idea but you need more signals I think, keep an eye on the real XJO,
> BHP as well.  Bob.



 .. you got a stop set yet bob?  Not sure how far this wll take it .. but broke all up resistance so far ... i got 87 as next resistance ... others have 91 ... if it takes those out may test prev all highs.
If yr watching it then ok ... good luck.


----------



## Euler

Euler... i got 87 as next resistance ... others have 91 ... if it takes those out may test prev all highs.
If yr watching it then ok ... good luck.[/QUOTE said:
			
		

> ... meant to add .. and it looks strong!!
> but i could be soooooooooo wrong!!


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Hope you have a good 'ticker' Bob
> The SPI is still going up
> 5288 High



New High 5289


----------



## Euler

hmmm?? .... Bronte, just went to reply to a post of yrs but when i refreshed it wasn't there.  you asked me to confirm a comment this a.m.  ... anyway for what it's worth ....

I said that I was looking to short.  You offered words to the effect "watch 5295 ... either this afternoon or tomorrow".  I stated I had my resistance level at 87.

hope that helps.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Our target for today is 5295
> Resistance starts here for us.
> Ref.  PM's & Chat



Thank you.


----------



## Euler

Had an idle moment and found this .... not sure if it helps anyone ..... 

http://toptraderthinking.podomatic.com/entry/2006-10-09T15_23_06-07_00

.............. feed and exercise the brain everyday!!


----------



## Euler

Euler said:
			
		

> Had an idle moment and found this .... not sure if it helps anyone .....
> 
> http://toptraderthinking.podomatic.com/entry/2006-10-09T15_23_06-07_00
> 
> .............. feed and exercise the brain everyday!!




or maybe a better one ....

http://toptraderthinking.podomatic.com/entry/2006-08-10T16_34_36-07_00


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Our target for today is 5295
> Resistance starts here for us.
> Ref.  PM's & Chat



5295 High  Got it 
Now 5289 +6


----------



## Bronte

5285 +10   
I will post the SPI chart later


----------



## Euler

Bronte said:
			
		

> 5295 High  Got it
> Now 5289 +6



somethings wrong .....
you posted yr closed trade at 4:04 ... but 89 wasn't hit till 4:06:02 according to my broker ... either broker is wrong, timestamp wrong or ????


----------



## Bronte

I can give you the exact time.....hold on


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> I can give you the exact time.....hold on



11/10/2006 14:03:42
5295 High
Now 5276


----------



## Euler

Bronte said:
			
		

> 5295 High



.. but good call on 95


----------



## Bronte

Euler said:
			
		

> somethings wrong .....
> you posted yr closed trade at 4:04 ... but 89 wasn't hit till 4:06:02 according to my broker ... either broker is wrong, timestamp wrong or ????



I Sold 95 not 89 Euler....as posted


----------



## Bronte

We will see the times on the SPI chart.


----------



## professor_frink

are you going to cover or hold it o/n bronte?

Nice call by the way


----------



## Bronte

Thank you professor  
Of course you were in chat as well.

As I explained in chat:

Risk:5/6
Reward:
+4 taken
+8 taken
+16 taken
Let one run.......maybe.
See how Sycom opens


----------



## professor_frink

thanks


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> 11/10/2006 14:03:42
> 5295 High
> Now 5276



1 min Chart showing time.


----------



## Bronte

Euler said:
			
		

> Bronte, you asked me to confirm a comment this a.m.  ... anyway for what it's worth ....
> I said that I was looking to short.  You offered words to the effect *"watch 5295 ... either this afternoon or tomorrow".*  I stated I had my resistance level at 87.



Today SPI Chart:


----------



## Bobby

Bronte said:
			
		

> Hope you have a good 'ticker' Bob
> The SPI is still going up
> 5288 High




Well its not recommended for the  squeamish  :


----------



## professor_frink

Bobby said:
			
		

> Well its not recommended for the  squeamish  :




did you come out unscathed Bobby?


----------



## Bobby

Euler said:
			
		

> .. you got a stop set yet bob?  Not sure how far this wll take it .. but broke all up resistance so far ... i got 87 as next resistance ... others have 91 ... if it takes those out may test prev all highs.
> If yr watching it then ok ... good luck.




Gee I got a bit annoyed when it kept going up, so I went for a swim.
Looking at it now I feel better for not setting a stop !  
I'm going to let it run overnight with no stop, I know its not the recommended play but thats how I trade sometimes.    

Thanks for the good luck.
Bob.


----------



## Bobby

professor_frink said:
			
		

> did you come out unscathed Bobby?



 I've been punched about but its only the first round


----------



## professor_frink

Bobby said:
			
		

> I've been punched about but its only the first round



Ok then. Seen as though I'm not long, I hope it gets hammered o/n


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Thank you professor
> Of course you were in chat as well.
> 
> As I explained in chat:
> 
> Risk:5/6
> Reward:
> +4 taken
> +8 taken
> +16 taken
> Let one run.......maybe.
> See how Sycom opens



Early this morning in chat "Sell 5295"
Now 5261 Sycom


----------



## Bronte

Euler said:
			
		

> You offered words to the effect *"watch 5295 ... either this afternoon or tomorrow"*



The timing was after hours.  
5295 High was 4 mins after ASX closed.


----------



## Bobby

professor_frink said:
			
		

> Ok then. Seen as though I'm not long, I hope it gets hammered o/n



 Thanks Professor, just looked at the platform -  buy offer is 5268, so I,m 5 points plus, after todays nightmare should I take the 5 points   

Nup I'll go to bed & not look at it till I wake, and that will be late, I can't control what the offer will be, but I can control what I do    

Cheers Bob.


----------



## Euler

Power failure zapped my main computer ... so am toiling on recovering my main machine while using my little backup unit to download any drivers etc I need ... fingers crossed .... be back soon I hope 
 ..... not happy!!


----------



## professor_frink

Euler said:
			
		

> Power failure zapped my main computer ... so am toiling on recovering my main machine while using my little backup unit to download any drivers etc I need ... fingers crossed .... be back soon I hope
> ..... not happy!!




Sorry to hear that mate

c: 



			
				Bobby said:
			
		

> Thanks Professor, just looked at the platform - buy offer is 5268, so I,m 5 points plus, after todays nightmare should I take the 5 points
> 
> Nup I'll go to bed & not look at it till I wake, and that will be late, I can't control what the offer will be, but I can control what I do
> 
> Cheers Bob.




It's a tough one Bobby, Looks like it's caught in chop city at the moment.

Personally if it was me, I would probably run away and cop it on the chin.

But I'm also a coward!


----------



## spitrader1

professor_frink said:
			
		

> Sorry to hear that mate
> 
> c:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a tough one Bobby, Looks like it's caught in chop city at the moment.
> 
> Personally if it was me, I would probably run away and cop it on the chin.
> 
> But I'm also a coward!



told you it would bounce of 80.....


----------



## professor_frink

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> told you it would bounce of 80.....




Did you get back on?


I'm kinda glad I had no net for the open- I probably would have been chopped to death


----------



## Bobby

professor_frink said:
			
		

> Sorry to hear that mate
> 
> c:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a tough one Bobby, Looks like it's caught in chop city at the moment.
> 
> Personally if it was me, I would probably run away and cop it on the chin.
> 
> But I'm also a coward!



Maybe I'm a dope but still in there  :sheep: 

Bob.


----------



## Hudlass

Bronte said:
			
		

> SPI now 5286
> 
> Our target for today is 5295
> Resistance starts here for us.
> Ref.  PM's & Chat




Hi Bronte,

Taking your last Gann level of 5295 as a starting point and going back to your previous posts (around page 70 in this thread), it looks like your using the Square of 9 to calculate resistance levels.

All the levels fell into either the Cardinal or Ordinal Cross.

Rather than me working back below 5295, can you tell me what level/number you use as a starting point?

Thanks.


----------



## wayneL

Hudlass said:
			
		

> Hi Bronte,
> 
> Taking your last Gann level of 5295 as a starting point and going back to your previous posts (around page 70 in this thread), it looks like your using the Square of 9 to calculate resistance levels.
> 
> All the levels fell into either the Cardinal or Ordinal Cross.
> 
> Rather than me working back below 5295, can you tell me what level/number you use as a starting point?
> 
> Thanks.




Rots of Ruck getting that info.


----------



## Bronte

Euler said:
			
		

> *You offered words to the effect "watch 5295 ... either this afternoon or tomorrow". *



Todays SPI Chart:


----------



## Euler

Euler said:
			
		

> Power failure zapped my main computer ... so am toiling on recovering my main machine while using my little backup unit to download any drivers etc I need ... fingers crossed .... be back soon I hope
> ..... not happy!!



... sorry I know it's off the topic ... but 9 hrs later after several calls to optus and my pc guru I still have no connction to my main machine .... just won't give me a connection.  Taking it to my pc guru in the morn to get to the root cause.  The funny thing is this pc I'm using now (then Mrs's) works fine on the lan (router connection to myine and wireless to this one) ..... so have come to the conclusion the power failure may have zapped my op system somehow and effecting the lan set-up on my machine.

Anyway back on the SPI ....
1.  well done bobby .... the swim worked and hope it falls from here for you.
2.  repeat ...  a good call of the high bront ... we should along with WayneL, Hudlass, the Prof and any others have a discussion about square of nine with you.  I know someone who made amazing calls with it.
3.  hope to be back asap ... but it looks like not before tomorrow afternoon at the earliest

 ... may the SPI-gods be with you ... am suffering SPI withdrawls already .....


----------



## wayneL

Good luck with the puter Eulass...wonderful machines...when they work 
LOL



			
				Euler said:
			
		

> .
> 2.  repeat ...  a good call of the high bront ... we should along with WayneL, Hudlass, the Prof and any others have a discussion about square of nine with you.  I know someone who made amazing calls with it.



I'm up for it. But I doubt Battman (Bronte) will, while he maintains this infantile secrecy.

I started a thread on the subject HERE


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> *Sell: 'Gann Resistance'
> Buy: 'Gann Support'
> Hide your stoploss.
> Make money $$$$
> Simple really*
> 
> Every time we issue/post a Gann Resistance / Support Level....
> (certainly not always here at ASF)
> Some SPI traders somewhere trades them. (Buy / Sell)



Hopefully some SPI traders here at ASF took todays 5295 Sell


----------



## neo

5295 was signifacant for other reasons today....... anyone trade short from here for reasons other than technical reasons?


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Hopefully some SPI traders here at ASF took todays 5295 Sell




Any trader who takes a call without understanding the reasoning or method behind the call is a complete ####wit.


----------



## doctorj

wayneL said:
			
		

> Any trader who takes a call without understanding the reasoning or method behind the call is a complete ####wit.




Or a gambler!

I want to know how and why.  If I want some chap to tell the future using the stars and planets or whatever without explaining me the reasoning, I'll look at my stars (libra all the way!).

If I'm risking my capital, I'd like to use something a little more than hocus pocus. Unless you care to prove it isn't....


----------



## Bronte

wayneL said:
			
		

> Any trader who takes a call without understanding the reasoning or method behind the call is a complete ####wit.



Certainly agree with that post Wayne.
Now let us say you have your own Sell signal that coincides with the 'Gann Resistance' posted .......
Now would you take the trade?
As per neo's post


----------



## doctorj

Bronte said:
			
		

> Certainly agree with that post Wayne.
> Now let us say you have your own Sell signal that coincides with the 'Gann Resistance' posted .......
> Now would you take the trade?
> As per neo's post



Ofcourse, but the trade would have been taken irrespective of your Gann Guess and in the absence of any reason or explaination it wouldn't give me any more confidence in my signal.

Conversely, if I had a buy signal at your Gann Guess, I'd have taken that too.


----------



## Bronte

What if you knew from previous experience / research 
that the 'Gann Guess' had a *very high * Success Rate?


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Certainly agree with that post Wayne.
> Now let us say you have your own Sell signal that coincides with the 'Gann Resistance' posted .......
> Now would you take the trade?
> As per neo's post




Of course. Duh!

But the decision would not be contingent upon it being coincident with some cloak-and-dagger Gann BS. It would not even be considered.


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> What if you knew from previous experience / research
> that the 'Gann Guess' had a *very high * Success Rate?



That information is not available. 

Hedged and/or hindsight calls on a forum do not count.


----------



## doctorj

Bronte said:
			
		

> What if you knew from previous experience / research
> that the 'Gann Guess' had a *very high * Success Rate?



Then I would be interested in learning more, but I imagine I would quickly grow frustrated when the person who claims to be such an expert continues to dodge questions and fail to add any substance to his/her posts.

The point is a guess (and that's exactly what it is in the absence of justification) that no one can even learn from - pointless.

Even if you were to post something along the lines of "Jupiter is passing thru capricorn and the moon is full and the great cosmic coin landed on heads this morning, therefore the day is bearish with expected resistance at XXXX" it would be more useful than posting "Gann says resistance at XXXX"


----------



## swingstar

doctorj said:
			
		

> Or a gambler!
> 
> I want to know how and why.  If I want some chap to tell the future using the stars and planets or whatever without explaining me the reasoning, I'll look at my stars (libra all the way!).
> 
> If I'm risking my capital, I'd like to use something a little more than hocus pocus. Unless you care to prove it isn't....




How is price action or fundamentals any different to what the alignment of planets might mean for a stock?  

So long as you have a reason and a plan, shouldn't matter what analysis you use.


----------



## swingstar

Having said that, I would like to see more info from Bronte. Of course I don't know a lot about Gann, so what she's saying might actually mean something to another Gann trader. 

Like when someone does an EW count, might mean f'all to an economist or someone who has no interest in TA. When I post a chart or something, I'll say what I think is a probability though. 

Actually what I'd like to see, is Bronte saying this, this and this has happened, and in history, this, this and that generally happens, and this is the trade I'm taking. I'll get out when this happens, because my original analysis is now invalid. 

Otherwise, will mean absolutely nothing to me, until I do some study on Gann.


----------



## Bronte

That is very true swingstar.

Out of 5300 members here, how many teach?
We never said anything about teaching the world,
(this is a window to the world....is it not?)
or of being Gann experts


----------



## Bronte

*'Trading the SPI'*
_- over 90 per cent of futures trades lose!_   Brent Penfold

This thread is about 'Trading the SPI'
Hopefully someone can show us another method.
That is *not* Gann.


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> *'Trading the SPI'*
> _- over 90 per cent of futures trades lose!_   Brent Penfold
> 
> This thread is about 'Trading the SPI'
> Hopefully someone can show us another method.
> That is *not* Gann.



*Battman,*

After nearly 4000 posts in this thread, we still have not ascertained what *IS* Gann.

But as a matter of fact, other methods have been discussed e.g.

Floor traders pivots, including calcs.

Frank D has posted some material

Ageo's MA crossover method 

etc etc etc

Please!!! Enough with the red herrings!!!


----------



## happytrader

Hi Bronte

I notice 'Barman' aka 'Battman is still in the top ten and currently holding forth position in the Sonray trading game. 
Nice consistent effort.

Cheers
Happytrader


----------



## Magdoran

swingstar said:
			
		

> Having said that, I would like to see more info from Bronte. Of course I don't know a lot about Gann, so what she's saying might actually mean something to another Gann trader.
> 
> Like when someone does an EW count, might mean f'all to an economist or someone who has no interest in TA. When I post a chart or something, I'll say what I think is a probability though.
> 
> Actually what I'd like to see, is Bronte saying this, this and this has happened, and in history, this, this and that generally happens, and this is the trade I'm taking. I'll get out when this happens, because my original analysis is now invalid.
> 
> Otherwise, will mean absolutely nothing to me, until I do some study on Gann.



I agree with swingstar.  Having studied many market approaches, I would find it interesting to find out which segment of Gann’s works Bronte/Battman subscribes to.

I suspect that it is the square of 9 that they are using (they have said this before), but there are many different varieties of use depending on which school of Gann you adopt.  I suspect that they are in the astrology camp which uses planetary cycles to project support and resistance in time, in conjunction (pun intended) with the square of 9 to determine support/resistance in price.

Don’t forget that just as there are a multitude of different technical analysis schools in existence, there are many different schools of how to use of Gann.  You’re talking about a host of different approaches he developed over a lifetime, and the myriad of revisionists who each uniquely interpret the remaining library of works which have survived.  Some of the works it is widely held were deliberately obscure, so it is not a cohesive body of knowledge you are drawing from.  

Also, it is well known that many of his earlier methods were refined, or even discarded.  The problem confronting a person who has never studied any Gann at all is knowing which approach to use, and how to put a market approach into practice.  Since it is a kind of custom approach you have to develop, there is not I would contend an “authentic” Gann approach, just a tool box of methods which you can integrate.

Having said this, it would be great to have these guys say which school they are using, but think about it this way.  If you did spend the time to research and develop an effective approach, would you react well to someone badgering you about it?  You’d probably become like a turtle and clam up.  Why would you give away any knowledge to someone that is not an ally?

Maybe try asking nicely.  If they don’t respond, well that’s that.  I asked them nicely which approaches they were using, and I got a similar response, although the square of 9 and some timing mechanism are involved.  Other than that, I’m left guessing too.  Hence I see little value in continuing to converse directly on this subject if they are unwilling to even identify which style of Gann they are using…  or even give us a hint what they are doing.

So I’m with the majority here.  Professor Frink’s “Professor days” are about as useful to me as a trader as Bronte’s “Gann” support and resistance calls.  At least I ante’d up and identified where I’m coming from, but then the school I draw from is from the opposite end of the spectrum.


Regards


Magdoran


----------



## sails

Magdoran said:
			
		

> I agree with swingstar.  Having studied many market approaches, I would find it interesting to find out which segment of Gann’s works Bronte/Battman subscribes to.
> 
> I suspect that it is the square of 9 that they are using (they have said this before), but there are many different varieties of use depending on which school of Gann you adopt.  I suspect that they are in the astrology camp which uses planetary cycles to project support and resistance in time, in conjunction (pun intended) with the square of 9 to determine support/resistance in price.
> 
> Don’t forget that just as there are a multitude of different technical analysis schools in existence, there are many different schools of how to use of Gann.  You’re talking about a host of different approaches he developed over a lifetime, and the myriad of revisionists who each uniquely interpret the remaining library of works which have survived.  Some of the works it is widely held were deliberately obscure, so it is not a cohesive body of knowledge you are drawing from.
> 
> Also, it is well known that many of his earlier methods were refined, or even discarded.  The problem confronting a person who has never studied any Gann at all is knowing which approach to use, and how to put a market approach into practice.  Since it is a kind of custom approach you have to develop, there is not I would contend an “authentic” Gann approach, just a tool box of methods which you can integrate.
> 
> Having said this, it would be great to have these guys say which school they are using, but think about it this way.  If you did spend the time to research and develop an effective approach, would you react well to someone badgering you about it?  You’d probably become like a turtle and clam up.  Why would you give away any knowledge to someone that is not an ally?
> 
> Maybe try asking nicely.  If they don’t respond, well that’s that.  I asked them nicely which approaches they were using, and I got a similar response, although the square of 9 and some timing mechanism are involved.  Other than that, I’m left guessing too.  Hence I see little value in continuing to converse directly on this subject if they are unwilling to even identify which style of Gann they are using…  or even give us a hint what they are doing.
> 
> So I’m with the majority here.  Professor Frink’s “Professor days” are about as useful to me as a trader as Bronte’s “Gann” support and resistance calls.  At least I ante’d up and identified where I’m coming from, but then the school I draw from is from the opposite end of the spectrum.
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> 
> Magdoran



Hi Mag,

I would also love to know exactly how Bronte and Battman get their daily support and resistance on the SPI!  However, agree with you that their reluctance to spell it out could be that they feel it is their Intellectual Property.  

Likewise, I was disappointed a few months back when you declined to give more info on your option diagonals, but respectfully accepted your decision and your right to do so.  So even asking nicely won't help if it's IP!!

B&B say they have been doing this for quite a number of years now so it's quite possible, as you say, that they may have developed their own tweaks of numerous Gann methods available.

I must say though, that the different view points over this thead are really quite amusing in their extremes - there are those that ridicule Gann methods as hocus pocus or absolute nonsense.  OTOH, we have those who want to know exactly how they do it - perhaps (like me) they have seen "proof of the pudding" over time - otherwise they wouldn't be interested in the methods used.

Anyway, agree with your view point which would be in the spirit of ASF, that as much as many of us would like to find out, we can still be respectful to the rights of other posters and their IP  

Regards,

Margaret.


----------



## spitrader1

wayneL said:
			
		

> *Battman,*
> 
> After nearly 4000 posts in this thread, we still have not ascertained what *IS* Gann.
> 
> But as a matter of fact, other methods have been discussed e.g.
> 
> Floor traders pivots, including calcs.
> 
> Frank D has posted some material
> 
> Ageo's MA crossover method
> 
> etc etc etc
> 
> Please!!! Enough with the red herrings!!!




i agree whole heartedly wayne.

i have spoken privately to a number of ASF members who are aware of the size in both the futures market and cash market i trade, and who I was before i started trading PA..bronte, i looked at the number of sales that trade at 5295 the other day and 7 lots traded there, so even if you were all seven lots, you hardly have a massive book. I wish everyone on here could make money, inlcuding you bronte, but as we all know, 90% of PA futures traders loose 100% of there capital in the first 30 days.

If anyone wishes to discuss my methodologies, which I have always been open about (again ill state that i trade the CASH market V the SPI), I am more than willing to do so. I believe (and i could be very wrong) I am the only trader on ASF who used to do this professionally as well, and those connections still exist....my point...bronte, i think you or whatever it is need some english lessons. when a question is asked of you, it would help your reputation (if you care) no end to just answer them directly, straight out. I for one would start listening to your calls if you answered questions.


----------



## spitrader1

Bronte said:
			
		

> *'Trading the SPI'*
> _- over 90 per cent of futures trades lose!_   Brent Penfold
> 
> This thread is about 'Trading the SPI'
> Hopefully someone can show us another method.
> That is *not* Gann.



ill show a method that is not gann..no problems.

I trade the spread between the CASH and the SPI. When it widens, I sell futures and buy stock, when the spread contracts, I buy the futures and sell the stock (not sometimes vice versa).


----------



## Bronte

Did you not say?
*"You have tried hundreds of ways to trade the SPI...
you now have to find one that makes money"*


----------



## Bronte

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> ill show a method that is not gann..no problems.



Looking forward to seeing this....good luck. 
(Please try and keep him honest Wayne)


----------



## spitrader1

Bronte said:
			
		

> Did you not say?
> *"You have tried hundreds of ways to trade the SPI...
> you now have to find one that makes money"*



that was a qoute i liked from another forum, not something that specificlly happened to me.


----------



## spitrader1

Bronte said:
			
		

> Looking forward to seeing this....good luck.
> (Please try and keep him honest Wayne)



did u not read the rest of the post??


----------



## sails

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> i agree whole heartedly wayne.
> 
> i have spoken privately to a number of ASF members who are aware of the size in both the futures market and cash market i trade, and who I was before i started trading PA..bronte, i looked at the number of sales that trade at 5295 the other day and 7 lots traded there, so even if you were all seven lots, you hardly have a massive book. I wish everyone on here could make money, inlcuding you bronte, but as we all know, 90% of PA futures traders loose 100% of there capital in the first 30 days.
> 
> If anyone wishes to discuss my methodologies, which I have always been open about (again ill state that i trade the CASH market V the SPI), I am more than willing to do so. I believe (and i could be very wrong) I am the only trader on ASF who used to do this professionally as well, and those connections still exist....my point...bronte, i think you or whatever it is need some english lessons. when a question is asked of you, it would help your reputation (if you care) no end to just answer them directly, straight out. I for one would start listening to your calls if you answered questions.



Hi spitrader1,

My interest in this thread is that I started trading some years ago learning Gann methods on the SPI - was brand new to trading and hadn't heard of any other methods at that time.  I did not complete their course due to the huge price tag  so I only got the basics anyway.  Even though I eventually learned other methods, still only got mediocre results on the SPI so it simply wasn't worth the risk.  

To me, Gann is simply "another method" available to us retail traders, however some seem to be able to make it work better than others.

If I could find a good method to trade the SPI, I would open an account again in a heartbeat.  Don't like to be beaten, but had to admit defeat on the SPI some time ago now.

Would really like to learn more about your methods too, but as a professional trader, do you have access to information that is not available to the average retail trader?  

My understanding is that the retail trader only has technical or fundamental analysis to use (and so *has* to become good at it to succeed plus money management, etc) whereas professional traders have access to order flow and perhaps other info not available to us. 

Cheers,

Margaret.

PS I also have more questions on options for you  - but will use the appropriate thread!


----------



## spitrader1

sails said:
			
		

> Hi spitrader1,
> 
> My interest in this thread is that I started trading some years ago learning Gann methods on the SPI - was brand new to trading and hadn't heard of any other methods at that time.  I did not complete their course due to the huge price tag  so I only got the basics anyway.  Even though I eventually learned other methods, still only got mediocre results on the SPI so it simply wasn't worth the risk.
> 
> To me, Gann is simply "another method" available to us retail traders, however some seem to be able to make it work better than others.
> 
> If I could find a good method to trade the SPI, I would open an account again in a heartbeat.  Don't like to be beaten, but had to admit defeat on the SPI some time ago now.
> 
> Would really like to learn more about your methods too, but as a professional trader, do you have access to information that is not available to the average retail trader?
> 
> My understanding is that the retail trader only has technical or fundamental analysis to use (and so *has* to become good at it to succeed plus money management, etc) whereas professional traders have access to order flow and perhaps other info not available to us.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Margaret.
> 
> PS I also have more questions on options for you  - but will use the appropriate thread!



i used to be a proffessional trader sails, I am now a PA trader just like 99% of the ASF members..I would be more than happy to answer options questions as well.


----------



## Bobby

Bronte said:
			
		

> Looking forward to seeing this....good luck.
> (Please try and keep him honest Wayne)



 Just curious as to what is the easier way to make money.

1. Selling information
2. real trading 

Gann was still selling information as an old man   

Have Fun
Bob.


----------



## spitrader1

Bobby said:
			
		

> Just curious as to what is the easier way to make money.
> 
> 1. Selling information
> 2. real trading
> 
> Gann was still selling information as an old man
> 
> Have Fun
> Bob.



good point bobby...even on brent penfolds site he is very honest that even if you subscibe to him, dont expect riches, expect a decnt return, but dont think u are going to turn 10k into 100k in three months. At the end of the day the theory is correct that if you invent a system that really, really works and doesnt require size capital to trade, then you arent going to sell it!!


----------



## sails

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> i used to be a proffessional trader sails, I am now a PA trader just like 99% of the ASF members..I would be more than happy to answer options questions as well.



Thanks for that info, spitrader1.  While I'm not advocating T/A or F/A, however, without the professional training and mentoring that you guys probably get, unfortunately technicals/fundamentals and the like is all that's available for the retail trader.  

I would find it most interesting to see how a trader with professional experience goes about it.   Always happy to learn something new...


----------



## spitrader1

sails said:
			
		

> Thanks for that info, spitrader1.  While I'm not advocating T/A or F/A, however, without the professional training and mentoring that you guys probably get, unfortunately technicals/fundamentals and the like is all that's available for the retail trader.
> 
> I would find it most interesting to see how a trader with professional experience goes about it.   Always happy to learn something new...



as am I sails. My main objective with trading the SPI is to learn something new every day, its not to make money. That way when I profit, its a nice little surprise to an educational trip that has been ongoing for the best part of 15 years.


----------



## Magdoran

sails said:
			
		

> Hi Mag,
> 
> I would also love to know exactly how Bronte and Battman get their daily support and resistance on the SPI!  However, agree with you that their reluctance to spell it out could be that they feel it is their Intellectual Property.
> 
> Likewise, I was disappointed a few months back when you declined to give more info on your option diagonals, but respectfully accepted your decision and your right to do so.  So even asking nicely won't help if it's IP!!
> 
> B&B say they have been doing this for quite a number of years now so it's quite possible, as you say, that they may have developed their own tweaks of numerous Gann methods available.
> 
> I must say though, that the different view points over this thead are really quite amusing in their extremes - there are those that ridicule Gann methods as hocus pocus or absolute nonsense.  OTOH, we have those who want to know exactly how they do it - perhaps (like me) they have seen "proof of the pudding" over time - otherwise they wouldn't be interested in the methods used.
> 
> Anyway, agree with your view point which would be in the spirit of ASF, that as much as many of us would like to find out, we can still be respectful to the rights of other posters and their IP
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Margaret.



Hello Margaret,


How are you?  Hope you’re enjoying the sunshine up there!  (very hot yesterday here – they even made it a total fire ban!).

I tend to agree with your viewpoint here about being respectful of other posters.  I do have concerns about ramping, misguiding, or spruiking.  In B&B’s situation I don’t see them doing any of these things, so I’m happy to just watch this thread from time to time to see what the daily perception is here. Although I do note the joint moderator’s concerns about the potential for hindsight trading.

Regards



Magdoran

P.S.  Oh, I didn’t think that I declined to talk about option diagonals (indeed I thought my PM response gave you some ideas of what I was doing), it was more the complexity involved in getting such an advanced idea over in this kind of forum (although there is some IP I would prefer some players – particularly market makers - not know about). There are so many different aspects to it, and all of them are an art in themselves, and I’ve fused them all together…

Part of the complexity stems from using pattern based time and price points in T/A terms, in tandem with the morphing of OTM positions using diagonal approaches.  Add to this playing the market makers strategy.  

The difficulty in dealing with these strategies in the forums is that they are not static approaches.  I have difficulty getting the message over even when dealing with people face to face despite access to software and a whiteboard.  Either the T/A stumps them, or the options logic, or both… (I’m not saying you wouldn’t be savvy enough Margaret, I’m sure you’d find holes in my thinking!).


----------



## Bobby

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> good point bobby...even on brent penfolds site he is very honest that even if you subscibe to him, dont expect riches, expect a decnt return, but dont think u are going to turn 10k into 100k in three months. At the end of the day the theory is correct that if you invent a system that really, really works and doesnt require size capital to trade, then you arent going to sell it!!



 Thanks Spitrader, 

Yep , no one going to sell a system that works well !

Second-rate mediocrity with nebulous significance abounds , just pay up & say abracadabra  :


----------



## professor_frink

Bobby said:
			
		

> Thanks Spitrader,
> 
> Yep , no one going to sell a system that works well !
> 
> Second-rate mediocrity with nebulous significance abounds , just pay up & say abracadabra  :




I have a great system for sale if anyone wants it, but you need a time machine to go back in time 10 minutes to take the signals.

Only $49.95(time machine not included)

Send cash to

P.Frink
c/o Aussie Stock Forums,
The Internet.


----------



## professor_frink

Bronte said:
			
		

> Looking forward to seeing this....good luck.
> (Please try and keep him honest Wayne)



Can you explain that for me please bronte?

Why does spitrader1 need to be kept honest?  

I've haven't seen him be anything but honest on the forum.


----------



## spitrader1

professor_frink said:
			
		

> I have a great system for sale if anyone wants it, but you need a time machine to go back in time 10 minutes to take the signals.
> 
> Only $49.95(time machine not included)
> 
> Send cash to
> 
> P.Frink
> c/o Aussie Stock Forums,
> The Internet.



as do i professor..

only 9.95 a month, please send all cheques to
Harry Hindsight
151 Two minutes ago street
Yesterday
Post code Previously.


----------



## Bobby

professor_frink said:
			
		

> I have a great system for sale if anyone wants it, but you need a time machine to go back in time 10 minutes to take the signals.
> 
> Only $49.95(time machine not included)
> 
> Send cash to
> 
> P.Frink
> c/o Aussie Stock Forums,
> The Internet.



 Very tempting Professor, maybe we could combine it with my unreal system based on the teaching of that late great trader Dr B.S. Pukcuf.

Infact I'll let the Pukcuf system go for a free this month which is a real steal


----------



## Euler

Euler said:
			
		

> ... I still have no connction to my main machine .... (



I promise to not post any more about my internet connection problem ... but in case it helps anyone ... my last effort this morning was to connect 2nd pc directly to the router (via ethernet cable) ... and guess what ... no connection! ... this led me to think the ethernet cable was shorted out when the power failure.  Not having a spare, took the pc to my guru to have it checked.  Diagnosis was A1! ... connected and worked perfectly on his network ... so guess what? ... he said ... "it has to be the cable.  Here's a spare @ $12.50!"  Took it all home, hooked it up with the new cable and ... *bingo!! * .. *connected again!!*    

Now the hard work start to catch up on the last 48hrs ... thanks guys for your thoughts ... even if it was "I wish he'd take this elsewhere!" ..


----------



## swingstar

Euler said:
			
		

> I promise to not post any more about my internet connection problem ... but in case it helps anyone ... my last effort this morning was to connect 2nd pc directly to the router (via ethernet cable) ... and guess what ... no connection! ... this led me to think the ethernet cable was shorted out when the power failure.  Not having a spare, took the pc to my guru to have it checked.  Diagnosis was A1! ... connected and worked perfectly on his network ... so guess what? ... he said ... "it has to be the cable.  Here's a spare @ $12.50!"  Took it all home, hooked it up with the new cable and ... *bingo!! * .. *connected again!!*




Thanks for reminding me that my time spent in I.T. and at uni wasn't a _complete_ waste of time.


----------



## Bobby

Euler said:
			
		

> I promise to not post any more about my internet connection problem ... but in case it helps anyone ... my last effort this morning was to connect 2nd pc directly to the router (via ethernet cable) ... and guess what ... no connection! ... this led me to think the ethernet cable was shorted out when the power failure.  Not having a spare, took the pc to my guru to have it checked.  Diagnosis was A1! ... connected and worked perfectly on his network ... so guess what? ... he said ... "it has to be the cable.  Here's a spare @ $12.50!"  Took it all home, hooked it up with the new cable and ... *bingo!! * .. *connected again!!*
> 
> Now the hard work start to catch up on the last 48hrs ... thanks guys for your thoughts ... even if it was "I wish he'd take this elsewhere!" ..



 Good to here the problem was just the cable ! welcome back .


----------



## Magdoran

professor_frink said:
			
		

> I have a great system for sale if anyone wants it, but you need a time machine to go back in time 10 minutes to take the signals.
> 
> Only $49.95(time machine not included)
> 
> Send cash to
> 
> P.Frink
> c/o Aussie Stock Forums,
> The Internet.



Hahhahahahahaah!


You guys crack me up…  Here I am, trying to be serious, charting away, and analysing options strategies, and what do I find?

A pit of mirth and naughtiness!

I think I can hear the sound of a TARDIS going off in Bronte’s backyard!

Hang on, I’ll just go forward in time to find out what happens at close.  Anyone interested?

Mags!


----------



## professor_frink

Euler said:
			
		

> I promise to not post any more about my internet connection problem ... but in case it helps anyone ... my last effort this morning was to connect 2nd pc directly to the router (via ethernet cable) ... and guess what ... no connection! ... this led me to think the ethernet cable was shorted out when the power failure.  Not having a spare, took the pc to my guru to have it checked.  Diagnosis was A1! ... connected and worked perfectly on his network ... so guess what? ... he said ... "it has to be the cable.  Here's a spare @ $12.50!"  Took it all home, hooked it up with the new cable and ... *bingo!! * .. *connected again!!*
> 
> Now the hard work start to catch up on the last 48hrs ... thanks guys for your thoughts ... even if it was "I wish he'd take this elsewhere!" ..




Good to see your back up and running


----------



## sails

Magdoran said:
			
		

> Hello Margaret,
> 
> 
> How are you?  Hope you’re enjoying the sunshine up there!  (very hot yesterday here – they even made it a total fire ban!).
> 
> I tend to agree with your viewpoint here about being respectful of other posters.  I do have concerns about ramping, misguiding, or spruiking.  In B&B’s situation I don’t see them doing any of these things, so I’m happy to just watch this thread from time to time to see what the daily perception is here. Although I do note the joint moderator’s concerns about the potential for hindsight trading.
> 
> Regards
> 
> 
> 
> Magdoran
> 
> P.S.  Oh, I didn’t think that I declined to talk about option diagonals (indeed I thought my PM response gave you some ideas of what I was doing), it was more the complexity involved in getting such an advanced idea over in this kind of forum (although there is some IP I would prefer some players – particularly market makers - not know about). There are so many different aspects to it, and all of them are an art in themselves, and I’ve fused them all together…
> 
> Part of the complexity stems from using pattern based time and price points in T/A terms, in tandem with the morphing of OTM positions using diagonal approaches.  Add to this playing the market makers strategy.
> 
> The difficulty in dealing with these strategies in the forums is that they are not static approaches.  I have difficulty getting the message over even when dealing with people face to face despite access to software and a whiteboard.  Either the T/A stumps them, or the options logic, or both… (I’m not saying you wouldn’t be savvy enough Margaret, I’m sure you’d find holes in my thinking!).



Hi Mag,

Yes, nice weather here although a bit windy on the waterfront today.

No problem with the diagonals and understand where you are coming from    - just a useful illustration that not all questions will be answered on a public forum in detail due to complexity and/or IP reasons.

Due to my interest in the SPI and the time I invested into it in the first few years of trading, I have probably read every post on this SPI thread since joining ASF with particular interest to Bronte's due to my initial trading with basic Gann and the SPI.

So, in all that time of watching her posts, I honestly haven't seen the "hindsight" trades - maybe very occasionally, but no more than from other posters generally on ASF.  Sometimes Bronte will call her S/R level for the day as the SPI is trading close to that level, but to be fair, no-one really knows at that stage whether the SPI will stop there or continue on it's merry way straight through it - so I would not interpret that as "hindsight"!

I sometimes wonder how many others have actually tracked Bronte's calls as consistently and with the detail that I have over time, regularly checking them against the intraday SPI charts which are accessable through futuresource.com.  Bronte talks of using stops, so they obviously don't expect every one to work - so not promoting a holy grail.  I remain mystified   

I'm certainly interested in how others trade the SPI, as I have found even the basics I learned in Gann analysis to be very time consuming.  Certainly not promoting Gann, rather just hoping fellow poster can be given a fair go.  Anyway, my   .

Cheers,

Margaret.


----------



## wayneL

Margaret,

Battman (and I still am 99.99999999999% sure Bronte = Battman) has a history on fora outside of this one, many of us know about. This accounts for much of what you see here.

'nuff said?


----------



## Bronte

Wayne,
Just *what* are we seeing here?
Thank you for the kind words Margaret


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Looking forward to seeing this....good luck.
> (Please try and keep him honest Wayne)



As Wayne keeps us honest Professor


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> Wayne,
> Just *what* are we seeing here?




distrust


----------



## Bronte

Please explain.


----------



## sails

wayneL said:
			
		

> Margaret,
> 
> Battman (and I still am 99.99999999999% sure Bronte = Battman) has a history on fora outside of this one, many of us know about. This accounts for much of what you see here.
> 
> 'nuff said?



Hmmm, does "hindsight" trades then have anything to do with it or is it really more to do with previous personality clashes or grudges?  

I have heard and also noted the occasional posts where past problems on another forum have been referenced and perhaps is causing the upsetting remarks that comes through on this thread.  However, I don't know any details of the past and  can't for the life of me see what Bronte is doing wrong at ASF   

I'm not so sure about Bronte being Battman - if they are married, they would most likely share the same IP address - but their posting styles are different IMO   Perhaps Bronte can verify this...

Hope you can understand where I'm coming from - trying to understand the other side, but honestly, just very hard to make sense of it.


----------



## Bronte

'Trading the SPI'  Newsflash
We have just seen 5298 Low
*Almost * closing the 'Gap' left by this morning.
Yesterday Resistance becomes Support for now.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> 'Trading the SPI'  Newsflash
> We have just seen 5298 Low
> *Almost * closing the 'Gap' left by this morning.
> Yesterday Resistance becomes Support *for now*.



As we thought.
5298 held until now....
5293 Low Gap closed.
Will post SPI chart later


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> As we thought.
> 5298 held until now....
> 5293 Low Gap closed.
> Will post SPI chart later



Todays SPI chart showing the 'Gap'


----------



## wayneL

sails said:
			
		

> Hmmm, does "hindsight" trades then have anything to do with it or is it really more to do with previous personality clashes or grudges?  I have heard and also noted the occasional posts where past problems on another forum have been referenced and perhaps is causing the upsetting remarks that comes through on this thread.  However, I don't know any details of the past and  can't for the life of me see what Bronte is doing wrong at ASF
> 
> I'm not so sure about Bronte being Battman - if they are married, they would most likely share the same IP address - but their posting styles are different IMO   Perhaps Bronte can verify this...
> 
> Hope you can understand where I'm coming from - trying to understand the other side, but honestly, just very hard to make sense of it.




Margaret,

We've been through all this before, and quite frankly, I resent your implication. I do not carry grudges. That is obvious. Ask Tech/A or Duc.

I have never conversed with Battman outside of this forum. Therefore a "grudge" is not possible.

But seriously, I would be sure to collect all the facts before jumping into the same corner as Battman.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Please explain.



Why the distrust Wayne ?
PM me if you prefer.


----------



## Bronte

What are "all the facts" you are *not* holding a grudge aginst?


----------



## wayneL

You are asking me to dish out the dirt in public? I won't betray confidences unless permitted to by those that have told me stuff. I would have to check with them first.... but then I have to be careful not to make either me or Joe liable.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm maybe I'll just keep it to myself and those who already know.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Why the distrust Wayne ?
> PM me if you prefer.



That is purely upto you Wayne
We will be 'saving to file' all posts


----------



## Bronte

Could it be something that is supposed to have 
happened three to four years ago?


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> That is purely upto you Wayne
> We will be 'saving to file' all posts




Is that a legal threat?


----------



## Bronte

No, It is not Wayne

As posted before.....
"I swear on my recently passed fathers memory that...
I have *never * sent an abusive email / letter in my life"


----------



## Bobby

Bronte said:
			
		

> As we thought.
> 5298 held until now....
> 5293 Low Gap closed.




Deep stuff bronte, how about a prediction for Monday like : ( _we think the SPI will move in certain ways come Monday    _  )

Have Fun
Bob.


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> No
> It is not Wayne



What is it then  Why "Save all posts to file"?

Looks like a veiled threat to me.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> No, It is not Wayne
> 
> As posted before.....
> "I swear on my recently passed fathers memory that...
> I have *never * sent an abusive email / letter in my life"



We have a lot of this thread on file.
Was this it?  Abusive emails?


----------



## wayneL

No comment


----------



## onemore

I am starting to enjoy this thread again.


----------



## Bronte

We are really confused now.   
Accused of 'something' we are supposed
to have done three to four years ago.
By a person who doesn't know first hand what we did. 
& all this is relevant to: 'Trading the SPI'


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> We are really confused now.
> Accused of 'something' we are supposed to have done
> three to four years ago.
> By a person who doesn't know first hand what we did.




You said 3 or 4 years ago, not me.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> We are really confused now.
> Accused of 'something' we are supposed
> to have done three to four years ago.
> By a person who doesn't know first hand what we did.
> & all this is relevant to: *'Trading the SPI' *



 Can you give us some more clues please Wayne?
We have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.


----------



## Milk Man

Might it be the controversy over not calling live trades properly?


----------



## Bronte

Could be I suppose......
Saturday morning call for a Monday Open
That sure didn't make Wayne happy tho


----------



## Bronte

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> ill show a method that is not gann..no problems.



We are really looking forward to this.  
Many members have tried 'Trading the SPI'
Here at: *'Aussie Stock Forums'*
Hopefully we will see some 'live' calls,
and some big money made.
We know it is possible...good luck


----------



## spitrader1

spitrader1 said:
			
		

> ill show a method that is not gann..no problems.
> 
> I trade the spread between the CASH and the SPI. When it widens, I sell futures and buy stock, when the spread contracts, I buy the futures and sell the stock (not sometimes vice versa).



just to prove that i did post how i trade...its nothing more sisnister complicated than this...i trade the above method EVERY DAY, MOO and MOC....its not rocket science/brain surgery, in fact, its as simple as pressing execute on my excel.


----------



## spitrader1

Bronte said:
			
		

> We are really looking forward to this.
> Many members have tried 'Trading the SPI'
> Here at: *'Aussie Stock Forums'*
> Hopefully we will see some 'live' calls,
> and some big money made.
> We know it is possible...good luck



it appears my abusive post has been deleted, fair enough, i have probably had enough shiraz to kill a small child anyway.

bronte there are four things that main FACT.
1.I post live trades in the chat room. Euler, Bobby and Professor have all been there when this has happened.
2. I am bigger than you, but then again, considering 7 lots traded at your high of 5295, so are 50% of ASF members.
3.I will meet you in the screen at some stage.
4.90% of members question your posts at some stage.


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin

I see this thread degenerating into something it shouldn't.

Wayne I have found you. What is it with you changing your avatar so much? I am curious about it.   

I don`t like the current one by the way.


----------



## Bobby

It's Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> I see this thread degenerating into something it shouldn't.
> 
> Wayne I have found you. What is it with you changing your avatar so much? I am curious about it.
> 
> I don`t like the current one by the way.



 Hello Snake,

Alls well Sir, just members testing who calls crap & who don't   
Clear calls live by Spitrader1 as an example !

Bob.


----------



## Bobby

Bronte said:
			
		

> I trade for fun.
> We trade and buy property.
> The property has made us wealthy.



Some questions ?
 You trade for fun ?  do you ?
You sell information don't you ?
You buy property from money you make, do you get this money from trading or selling information ?
You use this site as your web to clients ?
You post charts  for who ?
You may wish to answer ? or you may not.

Just Questions


----------



## wayneL

Bobby said:
			
		

> Just Questions




Good questions too


----------



## Bronte

Bobby said:
			
		

> Some questions ?
> You trade for fun ?  do you ?
> You sell information don't you ? *Yes daycharts*
> You buy property from money you make, do you get this money from trading or selling information ? *Both*
> You use this site as your web to clients ? *Not really*
> You post charts for who ? *ASF members*
> You may wish to answer ? or you may not.
> Just Questions



You are our best sales man Bobby  
No seriously we have *refused* all approaches from ASF members so far.


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> You are our best sales man Bobby
> No seriously we have *refused* all approaches from ASF members so far.



*After* SPI traders have done Battmans course.
Which is one on one only, at present
We sell graphs daily that show:
Gann Support / Resistances
Gann timeframes etc


----------



## Bronte

Strong night on overseas markets.
Sycom +20 points
SPI 5322 High


----------



## Bronte

Bronte said:
			
		

> Strong night on overseas markets.
> Sycom +20 points
> *SPI 5322 High  *



SPI Daily chart:


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin

Bobby said:
			
		

> Hello Snake,
> 
> Alls well Sir, just members testing who calls crap & who don't
> Clear calls live by Spitrader1 as an example !
> 
> Bob.




Sir Bobby,

Thank you for the assessment. 

Wayne,

Care to answer my question?


----------



## wayneL

It's Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> Wayne,
> 
> Care to answer my question?



The answer is, is that there is no *logical answer.

Primarily to amuse I suppose....(and probably only amusing myself  )


----------



## wayneL

Bronte said:
			
		

> No seriously we have *refused* all approaches from ASF members so far.




From information I have, and have no reason to doubt, this is a clever manipulation of the truth. I believe every post, every statement you make on here, is for the purpose of marketing your course.

If you had any integrity whatsoever, you would pay Joe for an advertisement, just like any other honourable information vendor.

BTW, Why on earth, AFTER doing your course, would anyone require to buy your charts as well? Shouldn't they have the skills themselves?


----------



## onemore

Is there anyone on ASF that has done Brontmans course?
Surely one of his/hers ex students frequent these boards.

If so how was the course?


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin

wayneL said:
			
		

> The answer is, is that there is no *logical answer.
> 
> Primarily to amuse I suppose....(and probably only amusing myself  )




Harry,

If that is the case could you do it at least one more time because the current one gives me the ****s. I can't stand the way that person is looking at me everytime I read your posts.

Thanks 
Snake


----------



## wayneL

It's Snake Pliskin said:
			
		

> Harry,
> 
> If that is the case could you do it at least one more time because the current one gives me the ****s. I can't stand the way that person is looking at me everytime I read your posts.
> 
> Thanks
> Snake




 

BTW Did I ever give you my rhoughts about Kurt Russel?


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin

wayneL said:
			
		

> BTW Did I ever give you my rhoughts about Kurt Russel?




That looks much better Wayne. Thank you.
------------

*Admin Note- This thread is now closed. 

Please see the following 'Trading the SPI' threads
1) Trading the SPI- Non-Gann techniques 
2) Trading the SPI- Gann techniques *


----------



## Fxortrader

It's Snake Pliskin said:


> That looks much better Wayne. Thank you.
> ------------
> 
> *Admin Note- This thread is now closed.
> 
> Please see the following 'Trading the SPI' threads
> 1) Trading the SPI- Non-Gann techniques
> 2) Trading the SPI- Gann techniques *




sorry, I am still new to this forum, if there is something wrong in the post, I beg you to be guided. thank you for the technical info.


----------

