# Sarah Palin: The Barracuda



## Garpal Gumnut (31 August 2008)

What a great lady the Republican candidate John McCain has picked for his running mate.

A far cry from the insipid lickspittle Biden, who Obama chose.

This is a full blooded American woman in the tradition of glass ceiling shattering women of that great nation, the USA.

And she gave credit where it was due to Hilary Clinton.

The Barracuda will eat Biden and take a reasonable bite out of Obama.

See this link for a bio.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/29/rollins.palin/

John McCain will easily win this election with this lady as a running mate. she may be President one day.

gg


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## Nashezz (1 September 2008)

Yeh good choice McCain.

A person with no foreign policy experience or clue. Another GW Bush who (like the great man himself) won't even be able to point out the countries the US invades on a map.

I mean lets not worry about brains, experience or character (McCain only met her once so can hardly have been his choice but one masterminded for him by the party machine). Lets just choose some gun toting idiot who likes "Mooseburger". Ho hum

I mean if your right Garpal then it will just hasten America going down the toilet in the eyes of the world (and probably economically as well)


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## Calliope (1 September 2008)

Garpal.The loony left hate her, which is a good sign. I have a feeling though that you are trying to inflame 2020. It will be interesting to see if he takes the bait.


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## rederob (1 September 2008)

Republicans say Obama has not got the experience to lead the nation.
Voters say their biggest fear about McCain is that he will die in office - not that Obama will be assassinated!
Were that to occur they get Palin as President; someone significantly less experienced than Obama, and more right wing than the deeply discredited Bush.
Hilary Clinton will indeed be smiling as the Republicans yet again show their transparency in opting for appearances and inexperience when it really doesn't count.


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## Nashezz (1 September 2008)

lol Calliope - 'loony left'

Cmon mate try and come up with something more original than the facile replication  of meaningless generalisations that idiots like Piers 'tubby guts' Akerman and his ilk use.

At least try and show us you have anything worthwhile to add?


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## 2020hindsight (1 September 2008)

Nashezz said:


> lol Calliope - 'loony left'
> 
> Cmon mate try and come up with something more original than the facile replication  of meaningless generalisations that idiots like Piers 'tubby guts' Akerman and his ilk use.
> 
> At least try and show us you have anything worthwhile to add?



lol 
as much as I agree with you Nashezz 
maybe he's just a kid ?

PS Calliope, here's my summary 
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=329994


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## Calliope (1 September 2008)

2020. Bingo. You couldn't resist the bait and your mate Nashezz nearly blew a gasket. He has a nasty temper. I'd say he's a juvenile, but you are older enough to know better. But you are both agreeing with me, you do hate her.


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## 2020hindsight (1 September 2008)

calliope
bingo ?  lol  
all I can think of when I read your posts is  "this must be a kid"
so far you have said nothing. - oops except for that quote of Truman's which I already said I enjoyed reading. cheers.

PS what do you think of the lady's lill elephant?


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## algis (1 September 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> What a great lady the Republican candidate John McCain has picked for his running mate.
> 
> A far cry from the insipid lickspittle Biden, who Obama chose.
> 
> ...




Yep, Palin's a good pick for leading the superpower through diplomacy, sophisticated policy making, considered judgement etc..., but I don't believe she comes close to:


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## Calliope (1 September 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> calliope
> bingo ?  lol
> all I can think of when I read your posts is  "this must be a kid"
> so far you have said nothing. - oops except for that quote of Truman's which I already said I enjoyed reading. cheers.
> ...




I have no great interest in American politics so I have no intention in joining you in putting down those on either side. I don't enjoy seeing dirt dredged up by onlookers for political reasons. The politicians do that well enough on their own without any help from us. But I suppose you would say that you are just passing it on. Why?

Your recognition of the juvenile stupidity of your soulmate Nashezz's post on Gustav shows you can be rational on occasion.


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## 2020hindsight (1 September 2008)

Calliope
Let me know when you're old enough to vote
And which party you vote for  
I'll make a point of voting for someone else 

Meanwhile I'll let you have the last word - diatribe that it is ....  maybe you understand what you're trying to say 




Calliope said:


> I have no great interest in American politics so I have no intention in joining you in putting down those on either side. I don't enjoy seeing dirt dredged up by onlookers for political reasons. The politicians do that well enough on their own without any help from us. But I suppose you would say that you are just passing it on. Why?
> 
> Your recognition of the juvenile stupidity of your soulmate Nashezz's post on Gustav shows you can be rational on occasion.


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## Calliope (1 September 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> Calliope
> Let me know when you're old enough to vote
> And which party you vote for
> I'll make a point of voting for someone else
> ...




Doris once said she didn't think you would get dementia:screwy: mmm.


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## 2020hindsight (1 September 2008)

pfffft!

hey calliope
You've whipped me bigtime
I'm off to read the bible thread to get the strength to carry on 
pray for me please ...


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## Calliope (1 September 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> pfffft!




Amen


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## Nashezz (2 September 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> pfffft!
> 
> hey calliope
> You've whipped me bigtime
> ...




hehe


> Your recognition of the juvenile stupidity of your soulmate Nashezz's post on Gustav shows you can be rational on occasion.




Please explain (I say this with an Ipswich accent so hopefully you can understand me). Call me a cucumber but I believe he was suggesting you may be a juvenile. I tend to think that it is probably just that you are an idiot.


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## Sean K (2 September 2008)

And she's proving she's human too by allowing her 17 year old to get knocked up and supporting a shotgun pink fluffy dress and penguin suit parade. 

Dave's constituency in the bible belt will love that.

Going to hell!! 

Unless she turns up each Sunday for a cracker.


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## 2020hindsight (2 September 2008)

hey kennas,
not sure the Clinton's can lecture on such matters lol
maybe Bill Clinton was in Alaska recently?


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## Garpal Gumnut (2 September 2008)

This is from the Timesonline.

It is an answer to the nowrunningscared Obamaites who accuse Sarah Palin of inexperience in running for VP alongside JMc.

What a difference a week makes in politics.

Will Obama make a movie on Warming?



_Is Mary just the ticket?

Thanks to the miracle of Sky Plus it's possible to watch the programme you want at the time you want, unconstrained by the tyranny of scheduling. Which is why, surfing coverage of the US party conventions this weekend, I was able to catch this vintage footage from al-Jazeera's Holy Land coverage of 2000 years ago...

“So, Luke, how are people reacting to the Almighty's pick of Mary for the cherished place on his ticket as Blessed Virgin?”

“Well, I have to say people are already asking some tough questions about this unconventional choice for the BV role. Who is this unknown with no experience of life outside the tiny community of Nazareth? How will she cope on the world stage? She's been plucked from obscurity to be one heartbeat away from the Messiah but there's nothing in her record so far to suggest she can hold her own against the formidable Herod machine.”

“What are the Establishment voices saying about this high-risk strategy, Luke, is there some criticism there?”

“You bet, Salome, there's real concern among the Jerusalem insiders, the Pharisees and Sadducees who have real foreign policy heft, that Mary will be way out of her depth and won't be able to impress in key centres of power. There's no way they'll ever lay on the bells and ceremonial for someone like Mary in Rome, they say.”

“And she's got very traditional redneck views, I understand, Luke.”

“Yes, she's pro-Life, which will appeal to the Almighty's base but as an unwed mother she may also have some crossover appeal with the all-important constituency of tax-gatherers, women taken in adultery and thieves whom the Almighty wishes to make his own.”

“And finally, Luke, any news from the Herod camp on this new rival?”

“They're very relaxed, and news that they've drafted in Pontius Pilate from the Caesar Augustus campaign team to work on their attack strategy is just bearing false witness, but I can confirm they will have Barabbas on their slate for the big vote later.â

_

gg


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## Nashezz (3 September 2008)

hilarious

go the bible belt.

I know of no quicker way to hurtle your country (further) into being the subject of ridicule then say, voting in someone whose resume apparently is loaded with important things like being a hockey mom, NRA member, liking Mooseburger and hunting. Except for, say, voting in someone like Arnold Schwarzenegger(sp?), or GWB a second time. Oh, you already did that....

I was living in California at the time the Governator got elected. One of his first money saving policies was to shut down or severely restrict public library opening hours. I lived near a poor area in Richmond, San Francisco and my local public library suddenly only opened a few times a week during working hours. Try helping yourself to a better life (you know the bastion of modern 'conservative' philosophy) when one of the great educational resources available to you is only open during work/school hours.... Good job Arnie. Expect no less from the next clueless idiot like 'el Barracuda'.


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## CAB SAV (3 September 2008)

My kida gal, fishin,shootin, rootin. yeh ha. god bless america


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## alleyronin (4 September 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> What a great lady the Republican candidate John McCain has picked for his running mate.
> 
> A far cry from the insipid lickspittle Biden, who Obama chose.
> 
> ...



 Paraphrased "finally a US presidential contender with some balls"


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## Bushman (4 September 2008)

Oh f*ck!


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## Garpal Gumnut (4 September 2008)

What a pleasant break from the sanitised left wing media darlings we are so used to seeing is Sarah Barracuda. 

Bill Clinton , the dirty old roger is conspicuously silent. His long suffering wife's only claim in posterity will to have been mentioned by Sarah in her first speech.

Even the poor old hen, Kerry O'Brien tonight on the 730 report was unable to muster any words with which to denigrate her.

She is young, female, fertile, sexy, articulate and intelligent. Traits she shares with Obama Barack.

However she has experience in life and government way beyond his meagre accomplishments.

Roll on the election.

McCain and Palin will roll in.

gg


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## juw177 (4 September 2008)

There has been so much US political coverage consist of tabloid crap about the presidential candidate's associations (Jeremiah Wight / Sarah Palin). The US public laps it all up which says a lot about the American population.


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## Garpal Gumnut (4 September 2008)

juw177 said:


> There has been so much US political coverage consist of tabloid crap about the presidential candidate's associations (Jeremiah Wight / Sarah Palin). The US public laps it all up which says a lot about the American population.




Yes mate, the quality of voters ruins elections I believe so as well   lol 

gg


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## 2020hindsight (4 September 2008)

I'm still trying to work out if she's exploiting the system, or ( more likely) the system is exploiting her (total newbie that she is).

I suspect she is being exploited more than she is exploiting.... 

Then again , I am so totally against almost everything she stands for ... no way can I sympathise with her plight.


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## wayneL (4 September 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> I'm still trying to work out if she's exploiting the system, or ( more likely) the system is exploiting her (total newbie that she is).
> 
> I suspect she is being exploited more than she is exploiting....
> 
> Then again , I am so totally against almost everything she stands for ... no way can I sympathise with her plight.




Don't vote for her then...

...oh that's right. You can't vote anyway.

**************

Why is it that almost all US poiltical speeches make me want to vomit? (doesn't matter which side btw)


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## Garpal Gumnut (4 September 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> I'm still trying to work out if she's exploiting the system, or ( more likely) the system is exploiting her (total newbie that she is).
> 
> I suspect she is being exploited more than she is exploiting....
> 
> Then again , I am so totally against almost everything she stands for ... no way can I sympathise with her plight.




Yes mate I agree with your last statement. I'd be totally pissed off if the left had brough a candidate like this out of the woodwork so close to the election. 

Obama might have achieved much, but McCain is not a conservative in the recognised mode, he is innovative, can move quickly, is willing to take risks and has experience. 

Sarah Barracuda illustrates this.

The left is like the Catholic church in the fifties, ossified, look at Rudd, he's afraid of his own shadow.

gg


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## Julia (4 September 2008)

I keep trying to visualise Ms Palin on the world stage (say if McCain does get elected then has a heart attack or another bout of cancer).   Keep trying to see her in the sort of role to which Condaleeza Rice has brought such dignity and diligence.   But I just can't see it.

OK, if you're into hunting beautiful native animals, and into denial about normal teenage sexual behaviour, and if you harbour some lasciviousness about the photos of her with the gold G-string, then I guess she's your woman.

But heaven help all of us if essential global negotiations were to be up to her with her complete lack of experience.

Can you just imagine her involved in a strategic discussion with Putin, e.g.?
She'd probably invite him to a game of hockey, and let the winner make the global decision.

Sorry if I'm offending all you dedicated Republicans out there.  I don't even have an axe to grind for or against either party.  Don't care for either of the candidates particularly.  But Ms Palin arouses in me more antipathy than I would have thought possible for an election so far away.


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## juw177 (4 September 2008)

Julia said:


> Keep trying to see her in the sort of role to which Condaleeza Rice has brought such dignity and diligence.   But I just can't see it.




Then the character assassination by the media has worked?


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## 2020hindsight (4 September 2008)

Julia said:


> ... Can you just imagine her involved in a strategic discussion with Putin, e.g.?
> She'd probably invite him to a game of hockey, and let the winner make the global decision.



lol,  thank you Julia
great imagery - and I needed a laugh 

I mean - the weakness of the US system has to be this VP situation - no scrutiny WHATSOEVER over the last 12 months - crazy ! - "Sarah Who?"  as they say . 

It would be like the "Governor" of Flinders Island (and I have no idea if there is such a position)   ...  
suddenly (within 2 months of the election) promoted to "next-in-line-to-the-top-dog-position-in-Canberra-and-one-heartbeat-away."  

This lady could be telling us to go to war with Iran in a couple of years for cryssake!   Along with her son who will probably be Stop-lossed (unless he uses his mums influence) to remain in the army 6 months longer than he contracted with the Army to serve his time.  -  

Forget Civvy Street dude - get back in that trench!!

PS the US have gone stark raving mad - attack Iraq and then totally overwork their Army trying to make some cheap political point (beyond the Chickenhawks incidentally)...  just that they won't accept the truthful verdict when you tell them . 

The thing about Sarah is , she diverts attention from the Cheney's who will continue to reap the rewards of supplying war machinery to the US military


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## Garpal Gumnut (4 September 2008)

Julia said:


> I keep trying to visualise Ms Palin on the world stage (say if McCain does get elected then has a heart attack or another bout of cancer).   Keep trying to see her in the sort of role to which Condaleeza Rice has brought such dignity and diligence.   But I just can't see it.
> 
> OK, if you're into hunting beautiful native animals, and into denial about normal teenage sexual behaviour, and if you harbour some lasciviousness about the photos of her with the gold G-string, then I guess she's your woman.
> 
> ...




It didn't seem to make much difference when the USA was led by a sex addict, Kennedy or Clinton.

Or when a person with obvious Alzheimers , Reagan, was negotiating on the world stage.

She appears far more grounded and appropriate than either Bush or Ford.

And Nixon was a crook, and Carter an incompetent godbotherer.

gg


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## wayneL (4 September 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> It would be like the "Governor" of Flinders Island (and I have no idea if there is such a position)   ...
> suddenly (within 2 months of the election) promoted to "next-in-line-to-the-top-dog-position-in-Canberra-and-one-heartbeat-away."




Not quite. 



> Alaska (IPA: /əˈlÃ¦skə/, Russian: Аляска Alyaska) is a state in the United States of America, in the northwest of the North American continent. It is the largest U.S. state by area, and the 6th wealthiest (per capita income).[
> 
> In 2006 Alaska had an estimated population of 670,053, an increase of 6,392 (0.96%) from 2005 and 43,121 (6.9%) from 2000. In 2000 Alaska ranked 48th out of 50 states by population.[19] Alaska is the least densely populated state, at 1.1 people per square mile (0.42/km ²), with the next state, Wyoming, at 5.1 per square mile (1.97/km ²).




More like a cross between the premier of Tasmania and WA.

It pays to check your facts before running off at the mouth.


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## Julia (4 September 2008)

juw177 said:


> Then the character assassination by the media has worked?



No, juw, just the view I've formed from listening to and watching her and considering her professed values.  Doesn't need any further assassination by the media.


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## 2020hindsight (4 September 2008)

wayneL said:


> Not quite.
> More like a cross between the premier of Tasmania and WA.
> It pays to check your facts before running off at the mouth.



Jeez Wayne, can I play pedant now – 
 perhaps if you compare “President of USA" with “Prime Minister of Australia” you’ll judge me less  mmmm   toughly.

PS I once listened in on a lecture on bridge building by a famous American engineer at an international conference. 
He proposed a bridge between Alaska and Russia - across the Bering Strait.  Needless to say there was an allegory going on in the background.  "Bridge building between east and west."

It is possible technically 
even philosophically.

But not with the likes of McCain and Palin in charge !


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## juw177 (4 September 2008)

Julia said:


> No, juw, just the view I've formed from listening to and watching her and considering her professed values.  Doesn't need any further assassination by the media.




Your views are still largely a product of the media. It is no accident that the media chooses to sensationalise the personal life of some one who is not even an election candidate.


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## wayneL (4 September 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> Jeez Wayne, can I play pedant now –
> perhaps if you compare “President of USA" with “Prime Minister of Australia” you’ll judge me less  mmmm   toughly.



Nothing to do with that. It is do do with the administrative demands of running a state like Alaska versus a small and sparsely inhabited island.

You're playing the character assassination game when Sarah is making her values plain for all to see. She will be judged on that.

She's not my cup of ideological tea either, but she represents many for whom it is.


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## wayneL (4 September 2008)

juw177 said:


> Your views are still largely a product of the media. It is no accident that the media chooses to sensationalise the personal life of some one who is not even an election candidate.




Juw,

I believe Julia is forming an opinion based on the words from her own mouth, not the interpretation of the press.

If it disagrees with yours, it doesn't mean it ois the product of "the media".


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## Julia (4 September 2008)

wayneL said:


> Juw,
> 
> I believe Julia is forming an opinion based on the words from her own mouth, not the interpretation of the press.
> 
> If it disagrees with yours, it doesn't mean it ois the product of "the media".




Thank you, Wayne, for saving me the trouble of saying this.
Did think it would have been apparent, though.


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## aacantona (4 September 2008)

Julia said:


> I keep trying to visualise Ms Palin on the world stage (say if McCain does get elected then has a heart attack or another bout of cancer).   Keep trying to see her in the sort of role to which *Condaleeza Rice has brought such dignity and diligence*.   But I just can't see it.




As Secretary of State i can't think of a single thing that Condi has done to improve foreign affairs. Now lets see, there is Russia, basically the whole middle east, Pakistan, China, Zimbabwe etc.. etc..


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## Nashezz (5 September 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> It didn't seem to make much difference when the USA was led by a sex addict, Kennedy or Clinton.




Forgive my ignorance but what does being a 'sex addict' have to do with competence in foreign affairs?

While I believe that John McCain is an impressive Republican candidate I think his choice of running mate is pretty sad. Chosen purely for her appeal to ignorant red-neck types while trying to corner the womens vote at the same time... Not for any skilled handling of Alaska. Seriously sad stuff.\

I mean Arnie is the governor of an economic powerhouse vastly more important than Alaska and has even been re-elected - that doesn't mean he is competent. It might mean his advisors/public servants are, but my personal opinion is that is not even correct.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (5 September 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> What a pleasant break from the sanitised left wing media darlings we are so used to seeing is Sarah Barracuda.
> 
> Bill Clinton , the dirty old roger is conspicuously silent. His long suffering wife's only claim in posterity will to have been mentioned by Sarah in her first speech.
> 
> ...




The minute I saw her speech I was intrigued and got that intuitive feeling that she is going to be tough to beat with McCain.


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## Kauri (5 September 2008)

a pity that after an election no-one knows who the veep is???

Cheers
...........Kauri


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## 2020hindsight (5 September 2008)

aacantona said:


> ..i can't think of a single thing that Condi has done ....



well Condie's crystal clear on a few things ...  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condoleezza_Rice



> During the administration of George H.W. Bush, Rice served as the Soviet and East European Affairs Advisor during the dissolution of the Soviet Union and German reunification


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## Garpal Gumnut (6 September 2008)

Sarah Palin seems to have gotten up the nose of the commentariat.

The Australian ABC lady and gentlemen reporters and commentators although not sharing her politics , have shown some restraint in their coverage, to their credit. 

She does inflame left wing women though, particularly. 

Is it her fertility? 

She has certainly got more genetic potential than the sad left darlings having their first baby through IVF in early middle age. 

gg


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## 2020hindsight (6 September 2008)

ABC summary of the week (11.oo am Saturday radio) ..

"but when she criticised Obama, that he had written two books but no legislation,  it smacked of redneck to me,  beware them books etc "..

plenty of jokes yesterday ... Sarah talking to her son-in-law to be ... see that moose over thar son ? ,  see this shotgun ? ,  BOOM !


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## Garpal Gumnut (6 September 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> ABC summary of the week (11.oo am Saturday radio) ..
> 
> "but when she criticised Obama, that he had written two books but no legislation,  it smacked of redneck to me,  beware them books etc "..
> 
> plenty of jokes yesterday ... Sarah talking to her son-in-law to be ... see that moose over thar son ? ,  see this shotgun ? ,  BOOM !





lol 

gg


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## Julia (6 September 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Sarah Palin seems to have gotten up the nose of the commentariat.
> 
> The Australian ABC lady and gentlemen reporters and commentators although not sharing her politics , have shown some restraint in their coverage, to their credit.
> 
> ...



So only women with left political leanings ever have IVF?


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## Nashezz (6 September 2008)

Dont worry Julia, GG is just showing how typically stupid and ignorant hard-core right wingers are.

I mean to make it to the hardcore set you have to pretty much have ignorance, bigotry, greed, narcissism and stupidity as your primary character traits. Oh and there is a high likelihood of being xenophobic as well.

Represent bro.


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## Garpal Gumnut (6 September 2008)

Julia said:


> So only women with left political leanings ever have IVF?




No Julia, Many people of the right have IVF.

There is a generation though of "progressive women" who are leaving their pregnancies until later in life and often have to seek IVF to conceive. Many of these are in the left commentariat and sneer at the younger bogans who readily pop out a child in their teens.

By the way I am told that seventeen is probably the ideal age physically to have a baby.


gg


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## Garpal Gumnut (6 September 2008)

Nashezz said:


> Dont worry Julia, GG is just showing how typically stupid and ignorant hard-core right wingers are.
> 
> I mean to make it to the hardcore set you have to pretty much have ignorance, bigotry, greed, narcissism and stupidity as your primary character traits. Oh and there is a high likelihood of being xenophobic as well.
> 
> Represent bro.




Nash mate, it sounds more like the NSW Labor Party on a night out beating up on honest hospitality workers rather than any right wing people I know..

All those traits are present on both sides of politics.

However to question the status quo is forbidden, particularly when it is a challenge to  entrenched interest groups. 

Young bogan women stick it to the commentariat every time they get pregnant. and an attractive intelligent working class woman like Sarah Palin does it doubly so.

Next you'll tell me your a godbotherer.

gg


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## 2020hindsight (6 September 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> No Julia, Many people of the right have IVF.
> 
> There is a generation ..... and sneer at the younger bogans who readily pop out a child in their teens.
> 
> By the way I am told that seventeen is probably the ideal age physically to have a baby.



heck . when I was growing up on the commune, any girl who didn't have at least 2 kids before the age of 15 was considered a slow learner.


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## Nashezz (6 September 2008)

Biologically you might be ready but I don't know any people age 17 now that are psychologically or economically ready to raise a child WELL.  You can't just whip ten kids out these days without some pretty drastic financial repercussions not to mention any other issues. 

Women now work GG because society expects and prepares them to at all levels. 

I would agree that those traits are present on both sides of politics but I would say that there is a resounding difference. Most right wing voting people are looking at their own bottom pocket and how they themselves are affected by policy. Whether it be tax, unemployment (and those pesky wallet draining dole bludgers), illegal immigrants (aren't they called refugees unless and until they get sent back since the majority of them are found to be?), aboriginal issues, law and sentencing issues (let's sentence them for longer and more often even though we know through studies and experience it does nothing but create more recidivism and better(?) criminals), etc. Every policy, if even looked at, is looked at "How will that effect me?". Unfortunately Johhny dragged Labor well to the right on some of these policies but the major difference between left and right voters in my opinion is that left voters actually care (as in have sentimental concern for) about what happens to others as much as themselves, whether they be students, unemployed or some other socio-economic or racial class. 

It's a big generalisation I know GG but I will have you take my "Am I a righty or lefty?" test when I can be bothered to write it and you will prove me right as I have seen and heard it repeated many times.

Many of the people I went to uni with voted JWH in for his second term on the flimsiest of premises, but the one that was repeated most often was, "Well I earn good money and I know the Liberal party will look after me". Now I would refute that sentiment especially in the last 20 odd years but that is a one word sentence that to me summarises the most common reason people have for voting Liberal. I will summarise it further and call it greed and self-interest. I mean didn't the right wing journalists coin the term 'bleeding hearts' as though caring for someone elses situation is a bad thing. Isn't it funny that as evidenced by places like the 'Bible Belt' in the US that most of these people are still voting for a party that derides a trait expected from their own religion.....

edit: I just wanted to note that despite the alleged intelligence of my friends from uni that voted Johhnie in for round 2, none of them knew any actual Liberal policy. Funny stuff that.


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## Garpal Gumnut (6 September 2008)

Nashezz said:


> I would agree that those traits are present on both sides of politics but I would say that there is a resounding difference. Most right wing voting people are looking at their own bottom pocket and how they themselves are affected by policy. Whether it be tax, unemployment (and those pesky wallet draining dole bludgers), illegal immigrants (aren't they called refugees unless and until they get sent back since the majority of them are found to be?), aboriginal issues, law and sentencing issues (let's sentence them for longer and more often even though we know through studies and experience it does nothing but create more recidivism and better(?) criminals), etc. Every policy is looked at "How will that effect me?". Unfortunately Johhny dragged Labor well to the right on some of these policies but the major difference between left and right voters in my opinion is that left voters actually care (as in have sentimental concern for) about what happens to others as much as themselves, whether they be students, unemployed or some other socio-economic or racial class.
> 
> It's a big generalisation I know GG but I will have you take my "Am I a righty or lefty?" test when I can be bothered to write it and you will prove me right as I have seen and heard it repeated many times.
> 
> Many of the people I went to uni with voted JHW in for his second term on the flimsiest of premises but the one that was repeated most often was, "Well I earn good money and I know the Liberal party will look after me". Now I would refute that sentiment especially in the last 20 odd years but that is a one word sentence that to me summarises the reasons for voting Liberal. I will summarise ot further and call it greed and self-interest.





The big difference between left and right is that the right actually work to make a difference.

All the feeling and worry in the world, all the social engineering, won't make a difference to the poor sods in Macquarie Fields or other disadvantaged areas. 

The left have set up structures to disable people from working together to make better lives for themselves. bigger health and social security departments do not make for a healthier society. 

Safety in your place of abode, good nutrition, protection from substances and crime, and a fair go are things that folk like Sarah Palin stand for.

All the inquiries and studies in the world a la Kev 07 will not put bread on a child's table. 

I know many lefties earning in excess of $200000 a year sitting in government jobs whose only intention is to take that dough home to their families, now that is self interest and greed.

gg


----------



## Nashezz (6 September 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> The big difference between left and right is that the right actually work to make a difference.




I'm not sure if this comment proves the stupidity or the ignorance or both. We have about 4% unemployment, so I assume you are saying all left voters are just bludgers at work, or that they spout great ideas over a chardy but don't actually do anything? What a ridiculous comment GG. I am about as far left as you can go without being communist and I have been complemented throughout my life on my work ethic. I also know many many hard working successful (non-public service) people that vote left. I have worked for a number of volunteer organisations that are not politically aligned in any way and yet the resounding number of people working for them are left leaning. I know NONE of my right voting uni mates are doing anything to consciously help anyone else out.



> bigger health and social security departments do not make for a healthier society.




Ever lived in the US, GG? I have. Do you really want people on every second corner begging or homeless people and slums everywhere? Do you really want to wait 48 hrs at an emergency dept as a mate of mine did despite being really ill as the resources weren't there? Do you want to pay $150 for a 5 min consultation at a GP surgery with no answer to my problem because that is the going rate? I mean, you obviously don't want to pay for it but I can guarantee Australia looks like twice the place the US is after having lived there for 4 years.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (6 September 2008)

Nashezz said:


> I'm not sure if this comment proves the stupidity or the ignorance or both. We have about 4% unemployment, so I assume you are saying all left voters are just bludgers at work, or that they spout great ideas over a chardy but don't actually do anything? What a ridiculous comment GG. I am about as far left as you can go without being communist and I have been complemented throughout my life on my work ethic. I also know many many hard working successful (non-public service) people that vote left. I have worked for a number of volunteer organisations that are not politically aligned in any way and yet the resounding number of people working for them are left leaning. I know NONE of my right voting uni mates are doing anything to consciously help anyone else out.




I'm sorry I didn't mean to denigrate public service, and I'm sorry if I upset you.

My case is that the left are misguided, not necessarily all of them being venal. They go on about caring but care no more or less than the right.  

The right get things done and in the process improve everyone's lot. 

I also find that people who care like you and who get het up about it have a lot more in common with your right wing opponents than you do with many of the dipstick left wing appartchiks who time serve presently in government in Australia.

gg


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (6 September 2008)

Nashezz said:


> Ever lived in the US, GG? I have. Do you really want people on every second corner begging or homeless people and slums everywhere? Do you really want to wait 48 hrs at an emergency dept as a mate of mine did despite being really ill as the resources weren't there? Do you want to pay $150 for a 5 min consultation at a GP surgery with no answer to my problem because that is the going rate? I mean, you obviously don't want to pay for it but I can guarantee Australia looks like twice the place the US is after having lived there for 4 years.




Jeez mate you add stuff in after you've posted and I've answered.

That situation is occurring in Townsville as we speak. 

The health system is knackered in Queensland and we have so many inquiries and so many bloody Labor party people running around earning more money out of the mess that some are again talking about setting up a State of North Queensland so we can get away from the incompetent southerners in Brisbane. The hospital is too small five years after being built and the ED docs are on television every day crying out for help. 

All on a Labor watch 

gg


----------



## Nashezz (6 September 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> My case is that the left are misguided, not necessarily all of them being venal. They go on about caring but care no more or less than the right.
> 
> The right get things done and in the process improve everyone's lot.




Then why have right wing journalists coined the term 'bleeding heart' as a derisive term if the right cares so much? Your comments just aren't true. It is very true that some right voters care - I mean who wouldn't attend a charity dinner at $150 a head if they were rich. 

Its also blatantly untrue that they improve everyones lot. They might improve overall wealth but as has been seen recently, most of this wealth is going to the already wealthy..

I have to go unfortunately so I cant reply at length


----------



## Macquack (6 September 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> The big difference between left and right is that the right actually work to make a difference.
> gg



What is it with you right wingers. That is a classic superior piece of nonsense.



Garpal Gumnut said:


> I know many lefties earning in excess of $200000 a year sitting in government jobs whose only intention is to take that dough home to their families, now that is self interest and greed.
> gg




Why is it that right wingers consider left wingers to be "hypocritical" if they are "less a person" than Jesus Christ. 

Do all right wingers expect left wingers to give all their money to charity? Come on Garpul, get realist.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (6 September 2008)

Macquack said:


> What is it with you right wingers. That is a classic superior piece of nonsense.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Because they go on like JC, thats why, so they should go the whole hog.

Yes they should give all their money that they earn on these inquiries and commissions to charity rather than giving it to Tricom and Opes Prime principals.

Sheesh, some people        


gg


----------



## 2020hindsight (6 September 2008)

gg said:
			
		

> Because they go on like JC..



So was JC a democrat or a republican?


----------



## Macquack (6 September 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Yes they should give all their money that they earn on these inquiries and commissions to charity rather than giving it to Tricom and Opes Prime principals.
> gg




Shoot the messenger.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (6 September 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> So was JC a democrat or a republican?




Neither mate. 

The Pharisees or the Romans, that is the question.

Take your pick. It might be a good topic one weekend for a Saturday rant.

gg


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (6 September 2008)

Macquack said:


> Shoot the messenger.




When the messenger is primarily a dissolute pseudo-intelligentsia then in the words of Sarah Barracuda Palin.


*
“I’m not a member of the permanent political establishment,” 

And I’ve learned quickly these past few days that if you’re not a member in good standing of the Washington elite, then some in the media consider a candidate unqualified for that reason alone.

But here’s a little news flash for all those reporters and commentators: I’m not going to Washington to seek their good opinion,” 

I’m going to Washington to serve the people of this country.” 
*

gg


----------



## 2020hindsight (6 September 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> .... in the words of Sarah Barracuda Palin.
> 
> “I’m not a member of the permanent political establishment,”
> 
> ...



yep 
shame she didn't think of those words herself 

being locked away from the press Sunday through Thursday whatever was a good tactic no question.

(Why is it I keep thinking of that movie "The Making of a President" Robert Redford whatever?) 



> "And I’ve learned quickly these past few days " -


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (6 September 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> yep
> shame she didn't think of those words herself
> 
> being locked away from the press Sunday through Thursday whatever was a good tactic no question.




She co-wrote the speech mate, all of the politicians speeches are ghosted to an extent.

What it conveys would be drowned in a repost like this.

gg


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (6 September 2008)

Just announced.

Oprah Winfrey has refused to interview Sarah Palin.

What a shame. Democracy is threatened when the media is controlled.

The left media are running for President.

http://drudgereport.com/flash3os.htm

gg


----------



## 2020hindsight (6 September 2008)

"The Heat is On" introduction (Robert Redford)


Two weeks ago, all candidates (McCain and Obama) were for action against global warming. 

But then Sarah Palin turned up... 

Then there's the "hard sell" going on in the background .. 

  Robert Redford　『The Candidate』


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (6 September 2008)

Oprah Winfrey's own words about Obama Barack who she has interviewed 2 or 3 times already.

*"What I saw with Barack Obama was something that was transcendent and I felt transformational for me as a human being and for this country. And I only pray in the deepest part of my being that America will rise to this moment. And I feel that what he was able to offer us as individual citizens and as a united country was something that we have never seen before. I really, I think it's the most powerful thing I've ever experienced."  Oprah Winfrey
*


So being the fair minded left wing super rich commentator that she is, she bans Sarah Palin.

Sarah's reply would be 


*
“I’m not a member of the permanent political establishment,”

And I’ve learned quickly these past few days that if you’re not a member in good standing of the Washington elite, then some in the media consider a candidate unqualified for that reason alone.

But here’s a little news flash for all those reporters and commentators: I’m not going to Washington to seek their good opinion,”

I’m going to Washington to serve the people of this country.”
*

gg


----------



## Nashezz (6 September 2008)

Oh GG stop crying 'foul' about Oprah and open your eyes. It is well accepted that the majority of the media is conservative based, and your example can be given back to you many times with poor treatment of a lefty person by right wing media. Look at Fox/News Corp with its massive global reach and stupendous right wing bent as a prime example. 

In Australia it can be argued that the ABC is a left leaning channel despite Johnnies effort to stamp it out and kill the only alternative (some would say independent) view in Australian TV. Despite the fact the ABC only outrates SBS and that the other TV outlets are predominantly right leaning, although I would say channel 10 (and SBS obviously) is fairly centrist. The important thing to note is that the mass viewing channels are the conservative ones - so you can feel safe at night.

Then we have newspapers. We 'lefties' might have the Age and the SMH to read but it doesn't stop them from printing deluded nobs like Miranda Devine as one of their headline opinion writers. You righties are left (no pun intended) with basically every other newspaper to read, unfettered by alternative views- it doesn't matter that most of them, such as the Daily Telegraph and the Courier Mail are the ass end of journalism (kind of like ACA or Today/Tonight in print), cause at the end of the day you people must not care (high readership and all).

Why do you lap up everything you read positive about Sarah Palin, even right from the start, when at the end of the day, like the rest of us, you knew f**k all about her. Other then that she is attractive. Something you keep mentioning as though it is important.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (7 September 2008)

Nashezz said:


> Oh GG stop crying 'foul' about Oprah and open your eyes. It is well accepted that the majority of the media is conservative based, and your example can be given back to you many times with poor treatment of a lefty person by right wing media. Look at Fox/News Corp with its massive global reach and stupendous right wing bent as a prime example.
> 
> In Australia it can be argued that the ABC is a left leaning channel despite Johnnies effort to stamp it out and kill the only alternative (some would say independent) view in Australian TV. Despite the fact the ABC only outrates SBS and that the other TV outlets are predominantly right leaning, although I would say channel 10 (and SBS obviously) is fairly centrist. The important thing to note is that the mass viewing channels are the conservative ones - so you can feel safe at night.
> 
> ...




For many people not living in cities the ABC is the main source of news and current affairs.

The fact it is so blatantly biased is an outrage.

Obama is frequently described as being more attractive than McCain, whats wrong with that. Women tell me he is. I'm not going to argue with that. 

I find neither of them attractive but I don't go on about it because I don't like to be negative.

I even once went out with a girl who worked for the ABC, but we didn't discuss politics.

gg


----------



## Nashezz (7 September 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> The fact it is so blatantly biased is an outrage.




Of course you don't have the same outrage that Fox, 9 or 7 are also patently conservative biased and access far far more people then the ABC does. While some country areas may only receive the ABC I dont see them complaining - nor do I see it leading to vast droves of lefties in the bush. As I stated, the right wing media is dominant and has the highest viewing and readership so your outrage is a little misplaced. I mean, how dare they foist all that right wing crap on us when more then half of us vote for a different side.

Here are the latest ratings for you
http://www.oztam.com.au/documents/2008/A1_20080817.pdf


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (7 September 2008)

Nashezz said:


> Of course you don't have the same outrage that Fox, 9 or 7 are also patently conservative biased and access far far more people then the ABC does. While some country areas may only receive the ABC I dont see them complaining - nor do I see it leading to vast droves of lefties in the bush. As I stated, the right wing media is dominant and has the highest viewing and readership so your outrage is a little misplaced. I mean, how dare they foist all that right wing crap on us when more then half of us vote for a different side.
> 
> Here are the latest ratings for you
> http://www.oztam.com.au/documents/2008/A1_20080817.pdf




Nash, 

Well as I don't live in the big metropolitan cities, and you do I think, why don't you do something about it. Start off a TV outlet, radio station  or newspaper. 

I will continue to complain about my ABC being run by women and men of the left persuasion, as is my right.

It is a national broadcaster. I pay my taxes. 

The kind of local government with which Palin was involved in Alaska can lead to greater things. 

Why don't you go for public office as she did?

gg


----------



## ZzzzDad (7 September 2008)

Nashezz said:


> Ever lived in the US, GG? I have. Do you really want people on every second corner begging or homeless people and slums everywhere? Do you really want to wait 48 hrs at an emergency dept as a mate of mine did despite being really ill as the resources weren't there? Do you want to pay $150 for a 5 min consultation at a GP surgery with no answer to my problem because that is the going rate? I mean, you obviously don't want to pay for it but I can guarantee Australia looks like twice the place the US is after having lived there for 4 years.




Don't know where you lived in the U.S., but in my 51 years of living here, I'll say HOGWASH.  Where were you living?  Wait 48 hours in an emergency room?  You are talking about a different U.S.A. or, like the typical lefty is prone to do, grossly exaggerating.  If the U.S. were so bad, hundreds of thousands of people wouldn't be desperate to move here whether legally or illegally every year.

If you are able bodied, willing to work and responsible, you will succeed in America.  If you are not responsible and willing to work, then you pay the consequences - as it should be.


----------



## ZzzzDad (7 September 2008)

One thing about McCain - him and GWB don't get along at all, in fact, they really hate each other.  The fact is, McCain, if he wins, will clean house in Washington.  There will be mass firings of Bush aides and holdovers.  There will be a totally different foreign and domestic policy.  That is what McCain brings to the table, a fresh start, but with experience.

My advice to John McCain though is for him to watch his back.  Sarah Palin is a real corruption fighter.  She will, like in Alaska, go against her party if she sees wrongdoing.  I could even see her resigning the Vice Presidency, like she did the Alaska Oil and gas commission (or whatever it is called), and run against McCain in 2012 if she sees corruption.  She did that to the former governor of Alaska - Frank Murkowski - the very person that appointed her to the commission, because he wanted to keep the corruption quiet.  She then ran against Murkowski in the next election cycle, and defeated him soundly.  She is truly a tough lady - and America will benefit because of it.

Obama will just bring in a socialist government.  He is no different than the rest of the Democrat far left.  Their aim, whether slowly of quickly, is to make America into a European style socialist state.  Some try to hide it, some are quite open about it.


----------



## Nashezz (7 September 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> Don't know where you lived in the U.S., but in my 51 years of living here, I'll say HOGWASH.  Where were you living?  Wait 48 hours in an emergency room?  You are talking about a different U.S.A. or, like the typical lefty is prone to do, grossly exaggerating.  If the U.S. were so bad, hundreds of thousands of people wouldn't be desperate to move here whether legally or illegally every year.
> 
> If you are able bodied, willing to work and responsible, you will succeed in America.  If you are not responsible and willing to work, then you pay the consequences - as it should be.




I lived in Orange County (Garden Grove), California and Richmond in San Francisco, California.



> or, like the typical lefty is prone to do, grossly exaggerating.




lol, unlike the right which doesn't exaggerate children being thrown overboard or weapons of mass destruction or whatever else takes it political fancy. Why would you even try and take some high moral ground there - it is laughable.

Anyway, I wasn't exaggerating for the most part. To say there is a homeless person on every second corner was an exaggeration but having come from Australia the amount of homelessness is vastly more than here - at least it definitely was in California (I visited other places but can only really talk about California as that is where I lived for four years). The rest of what I said was 100% true (including my mate waiting 48hrs in the hospital emergency room) and I do not care if you believe me. Maybe you live in a wealthy area - not near one of those slums you guys have built to keep the undesirables in.

Now let me fix you on a few things you obviously don't understand.

US has a huge economy so there is a lot of potential there, and many multinational companies have offices there. The USD is typically very strong and when people send the USD back to their own country suddenly the $4/hr they have been getting to keep your economy pumping is good money. I worked with many hispanic people while in the US and the vast majority hated America and Americans. They worked for the pittance you pay them because it is good money when it is sent back to their families in their home countries. Not because America has great healthcare or that it is a great country. People want to move there for job opportunities and money and that as far as my experience, is it. I also worked with a lot of Irish people after my work visa ran out in the US (doing carpentry). They detested the US and Americans but again they stayed and even raised families there because a) there were plenty of Irish men to talk to that they didn't need to associate/socialise with americans really (and they didn't) and b) the US economy and in particular construction provided these guys with far more stable and lucrative income then they could have achieved at home. They did not stay cause it has great public healthcare, nor good education (in fact many did leave at some point to take their kids back so they could be schooled/raised in Ireland), nor a society that they appreciated outside of using it to make their fortunes.




> If you are able bodied, willing to work and responsible, you will succeed in America. If you are not responsible and willing to work, then you pay the consequences - as it should be.




I actually agree with this sentiment to some degree. Unfortunately though it misses the point of choice. In a world of pure economic rationalism a poor kid from a poor area will not have access to the resources (good schools/libraries/home life etc) to give him much of a chance to make it as a doctor (for example). Sure the poor kid can still make it, but not necessarily in their profession of choice as it just too difficult for most to achieve well without the benefit of some of these resources. In a world where there is some socialist mentality, this poor kid will actually have a lot more of these required resources on hand so as to allow for a real choice.


----------



## 2020hindsight (7 September 2008)

Nashezz said:


> ... To say there is a homeless person on every second corner was an exaggeration but having come from Australia the amount of homelessness is vastly more than here - at least it definitely was in California ...



:topic Treat this as an anecdote.    I can't really accurately comment, nash, but I travelled across the States on a series of Greyhounds, (Chicago - Boston, and back to San Francisco) and there were certainly a lot of "nomads"  on board.  People leaving this or that situation, looking for a new start etc....  Mother and kid who I got to know and felt sorry for etc..

In fact, lol, there was a hooker with the maddest idea of applying makeup  - goo all over her face - (speaking of a pitbull with lipstick lol) - weighed in at about 20 stone (280lb)- who, when we arrived in New York, wanted me to accompany her to negotiate a rental agreement as if we were a couple - any reward I wanted would be granted  - "and you could catch the next greyhound yes?"   "sorry" I said, "the woods are lovely etc , but I have promises to keep, and miles to go before I sleep etc".


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (7 September 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> :topic Treat this as an anecdote.    I can't really accurately comment, nash, but I travelled across the States on a series of Greyhounds, (Chicago - Boston, and back to San Francisco) and there were certainly a lot of "nomads"  on board.  People leaving this or that situation, looking for a new start etc....  Mother and kid who I got to know and felt sorry for etc..
> 
> In fact, lol, there was a hooker with the maddest idea of applying makeup  - goo all over her face - (speaking of a pitbull with lipstick lol) - weighed in at about 20 stone (280lb)- who, when we arrived in New York, wanted me to accompany her to negotiate a rental agreement as if we were a couple - any reward I wanted would be granted  - "and you could catch the next greyhound yes?"   "sorry" I said, "the woods are lovely etc , but I have promises to keep, and miles to go before I sleep etc".




Her name wasn't Oprah by any chance?

gg


----------



## 2020hindsight (7 September 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Her name wasn't Oprah by any chance?



lol- nope - forget what it was tho.

btw, does anyone know who first used the quote "pitbull with lipstick"?  - wasn't Sarah apparently.


----------



## Pat (7 September 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> "sorry" I said, "the woods are lovely etc , but I have promises to keep, and miles to go before I sleep etc".



I like your Robert Frost there.


----------



## 2020hindsight (8 September 2008)

Pat said:


> I like your Robert Frost there.



:topic poetry can be handy mate lol
I said to some bloke the other day, waiting for a taxi in a 99% shadey street in North Sydney, and a couple of us trying to get warm in these narrow beams of sun...
"don't you just love these stingy rays of sunlight struggling feebly down between the houses tall"  -  and he looked at me as if I had 4 heads - at least I had the taxi queue to myself after that


----------



## ZzzzDad (8 September 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> :topic poetry can be handy mate lol
> I said to some bloke the other day, waiting for a taxi in a 99% shadey street in North Sydney, and a couple of us trying to get warm in these narrow beams of sun...
> "don't you just love these stingy rays of sunlight struggling feebly down between the houses tall"  -  and he looked at me as if I had 4 heads - at least I had the taxi queue to myself after that




LOL, if a guy came up to me on the street speaking poetics to me, I'd run to the other side of the street for sure!!  It actually happened to me about 25 years ago at Hyde Park in London at the speaker's corner.  I had just finished a one hour run, and stopped to listen to some of the people spouting off.  I was young and in my shorts and some old guy quoted something eloquent too me, and I soon realized what he wanted!!  I took off running right after that!!


----------



## 2020hindsight (8 September 2008)

ZZD, hell , even you would have remembered some poetry if you'd been on that greyhound bus.


----------



## jwrt (8 September 2008)

Video of Sarah Palin talking to her church about America's divine mission to invade Iraq and the need for Jesus.

http://cgi.fark.com/cgi/fark/vidplayer.pl?IDLink=3845739


----------



## Timmy (8 September 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Her name wasn't Oprah by any chance?
> 
> gg




Well, thanks A LOT, GG.

I had a mouthful of tea.... had.  Up nose, over keyboard .... etc.


----------



## wayneL (9 September 2008)

A view from this side of the big ditch:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/minette_marrin/article4692133.ece



> This cynical choice has left McCain’s honour in shreds
> Minette Marrin
> 
> I’m an American, California born. It’s true my mother was English and that I was brought up here from early childhood and think myself exceptionally lucky to belong here; I feel as English as I think anyone possibly can. Yet all the same, America is the land of my forebears on my late father’s side. I would even qualify to be a Daughter of the American Revolution, since one of my ancestors in North Carolina fought in the American war of independence. My grandmother travelled as a little girl in a covered wagon in the Wild West with my great-grandfather, who was an army officer. I have close family living in America still, and I have the right to vote there.
> ...


----------



## 2020hindsight (9 September 2008)

wayneL said:


> A view from this side of the big ditch:
> 
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/minette_marrin/article4692133.ece




wayne, continuing with that article  (you missed out some of the other good parts lol) ....
well said lady...   ( Minette Marrin )



> But last week everything changed. John McCain’s choice of Governor *Sarah Palin was the last straw. It makes American politics look like a sick comedy*. My faith in my native country had already been shaken by other elections and by other wrongs, such as the Iraq war (which I at first supported, to my shame). But the moose-hunting pitbull with lipstick is too much. I have never used my vote in the past, but if I had, I would usually have voted Republican. Today no rational conservative can vote for the Palin and McCain ticket. *It makes America an international laughing stock. The fact that there has been a Palin bounce, after her charismatic speech, fills me with dismay.*
> 
> ............. What horrified me was not so much the woman herself, though she is clearly entirely unfit to be vice-president or president. It was McCain’s cynical and sudden choice of her. *Would you give power of attorney over your entire life to someone you had only met once, or possibly twice*? Of course not. You would give the matter and the person very serious consideration.
> 
> *Yet McCain in effect is offering power of attorney over all the affairs of the United States and over all Americans, including me, to a woman he had barely met. I myself wouldn’t hire a house-sitter on such scant acquaintance.*




In the terminology of Rumsfeld, she's a "known unknown"



> Obviously McCain’s public relations people have been scouring the country for libertarian babes. But politics is not painting by numbers. McCain doesn’t know Palin at all, nor it seems did his vetting people; revelations keep emerging about her all the time. *But he showed himself willing to hand the free world over to a stranger because his people think she is a psephological  paragon*. (??)
> 
> I had thought that McCain was, for a politician, an honourable man. Certainly honour is one of his top selling points. But who can think so now? In choosing a woman he doesn’t know or understand, purely for electoral advantage, he reveals a dishonourable lust for office, a disrespect for women generally and a dishonourable indifference to the future of his country. *After all, if this known unknown woman does become president, it will almost certainly be because he himself is dead - quite possible given his age and health - and past caring.*




lol - my personal word for the day ...
pse·phol·o·gy   n.   The study of political elections



> *In short Palin is an ill-educated, inexperienced hypocrite*. The Republicans are trying to sell her to the voters as something she isn’t, and McCain hardly cares what she is. It’s a bad day for my native land.




To say nothing of the fact that she's a walking disaster.


----------



## wayneL (11 September 2008)

First Obama, now Sarah.

This election reminds me about some of the things I so dislike about America.

The cult of celebrity mixed up with politics. 

MILF for VP.

God help us.  

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...-for-Sarah-Palinmania---US-Election-2008.html



> Obamania makes way for Palinmania - US Election 2008
> We've been through Obamamania. Now a new phenomenon is sweeping America – Palinmania.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Green08 (11 September 2008)

What I find truely amazing is her ability of the American me, me, me thought celebrity, success over-riding the causese.

The choices she has made in the Alaskan environment are appaulling. Yet depsite evidence she is willing to go for VP for the sake of her family's future.

I am shocked to find out she doesn't understand that poplar bears are reducing in numbers.  I watched a doc on Nat Geo and the problem is not just polar bears drowning.  It is the females, without enough food to eat they don't have the body fat to reproduce and those that do give birth. The little ones are starving.  Some Polar Bears are going without eating for 5 - 6 months.  So the ice melts, the peguins disappear, and polar bears are now stalking humans - seeing a mother with a stroller walking with gun slung over her shoudler is highly disconcerting.

She must be utterly blind and narcissistic- break the glass ceiling at what cost?


----------



## Pronto (11 September 2008)

Ah, the Evil Party (Republican) appears to be gaining the upper hand over the Stupid Party (Democrats). 

How interesting that the two worst Presidents in US history were respectively drawn from their ranks. Abe Lincoln, a Republican, who oversaw the deaths of 600,000 of his countrymen in a pointless war, and Franklin Roosevelt who moved the country towards a socialist structure from which it has never fully recovered.

So reassuring to see the current contenders keeping up with their great traditions...


----------



## Calliope (11 September 2008)

Green08 said:


> So the ice melts, the peguins disappear, and polar bears are now stalking humans - seeing a mother with a stroller walking with gun slung over her shoudler is highly disconcerting.




There were never any penguins in the Arctic. They are living happily in the Antarctic, undisturbed by polar bears.


----------



## nomore4s (11 September 2008)

See they are even spinning of Chuck facts for Palin now. It's all getting a bit silly.

Chuck won't be happy.:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Norris_Facts

Sarah Palin Facts Spin-off

Michael Turk, Ben Domenech and Joshua TreviÃ±o have initiated a spinoff on Chuck Norris Facts entitled:[31]

    * Sarah Palin Facts: Little Known Facts About the Alaska Governor, including:
    * Sarah Palin used to wrestle kodiak bears in Alaskan bare knuckles fight clubs.
    * Sarah Palin once bagged a caribou by staring it down until it died.
    * Sarah Palin turned down a job as skipper of a Deadliest Catch boat because it wasn’t challenging enough
    * Sarah Palin fishes salmon by convincing them it’s in their interest to jump into the boat.
    * Sarah Palin once guided Santa’s sleigh through an Alaskan blizzard with the light from her smile


----------



## ZzzzDad (11 September 2008)

nomore4s said:


> See they are even spinning of Chucks facts for Palin now. It's all getting a bit silly.
> 
> Chuck won't be happy.:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Norris_Facts




Actually, Chuck *IS* happy.  He is a big McCain-Palin supporter.  He was very happy about the Palin pick.


----------



## Green08 (11 September 2008)

Calliope said:


> There were never any penguins in the Arctic. They are living happily in the Antarctic, undisturbed by polar bears.




Sorry, checked not penguins but seals are far less numerous due to a lack of ice.


----------



## Calliope (11 September 2008)

A good indication of the low morale of the Democrats is the lengths the party and their admirers will go to to dig up dirt on Sarah Palin. And where they cannot find dirt they will use snide innuendo.

She may not be everybody's cup of tea, but she has more guts than her detractors.


----------



## Bushman (11 September 2008)

She will win it for them - that is why the American Empire is imploding before our very eyes. Celebrity has truely replaced morality in that civilisation and like all before them it will be the tipping point that signals the end.


----------



## ZzzzDad (11 September 2008)

Bushman said:


> She will win it for them - that is why the American Empire is imploding before our very eyes. Celebrity has truely replaced morality in that civilisation and like all before them it will be the tipping point that signals the end.




Obama is imploding for sure.  As for America, I suspect we will be here and leading the world for many many more years.  You have to be an American I guess to know just how strong and resilient this country is.  Go ahead, take your potshots at us.  We are strong enough to take it.  We are the most optimistic people on earth.


----------



## Aussiejeff (11 September 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> Obama is imploding for sure.  As for America, I suspect we will be here and leading the world for many many more years.  You have to be an American I guess to know just how strong and resilient this country is.  *Go ahead, take your potshots at us.  We are strong enough to take it.  We are the most optimistic people on earth.*




Then, here's a coupla BB shot.... won't hurt a bit! 

(1) Have you ever considered that blind, total optimism might have a downside? On second thoughts,

(2) What scientific proof do you have that Americans above all other humans are "the most optimistic people on earth"? (I've heard just as many say they are the most paranoid!)

You have to be an Aussie I guess to have an alternative point of view....


aj


----------



## 2020hindsight (11 September 2008)

nomore4s said:


> * Sarah Palin once guided Santa’s sleigh through an Alaskan blizzard with the light from her smile



hi nomore4s, 
bit like this one maybe 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4rpNX5YWYA


----------



## Nashezz (11 September 2008)

Calliope said:


> A good indication of the low morale of the Democrats is the lengths the party and their admirers will go to to dig up dirt on Sarah Palin. And where they cannot find dirt they will use snide innuendo.
> 
> She may not be everybody's cup of tea, but she has more guts than her detractors.




Of course Calliope, the 'right', including stand-outs like yourself, don't engage in snide innuendo. Or 'dig up dirt'. Get down off that idiotic horse of yours mate.



			
				zzzDad said:
			
		

> Obama is imploding for sure. As for America, I suspect we will be here and leading the world for many many more years. You have to be an American I guess to know just how strong and resilient this country is. Go ahead, take your potshots at us. We are strong enough to take it. We are the most optimistic people on earth.




Actually I found you the most fearful people on earth. Whether it be of 'red China' as it was referred to me, back in 1997 no less, or the dude out to enter your house that you need to sleep with a magnum for, I found your populace to be overwhelmingly scared. Guess you need to just get out and spend a bit of time in the world to compare.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (11 September 2008)

Nashezz said:


> Of course Calliope, the 'right', including stand-outs like yourself, don't engage in snide innuendo. Or 'dig up dirt'. Get down off that idiotic horse of yours mate.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually I found you the most fearful people on earth. Whether it be of 'red China' as it was referred to me, back in 1997 no less, or the dude out to enter your house that you need to sleep with a magnum for, I found your populace to be overwhelmingly scared. Guess you need to just get out and spend a bit of time in the world to compare.




Nash, mate, 

Less personal attacks would serve your argument better. 

Lighten up and argue the topic not the person. 

I have known many of the left, e.g. 2000hindsight to argue well and often to change entrenched opinions. 

We are willing on ASF to hear all opinions. 

Denigration is not acceptable.

gg


----------



## nomore4s (11 September 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> hi nomore4s,
> bit like this one maybe
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4rpNX5YWYA




lol, 20/20 I'm sure you spend too much time on YouTube.


----------



## brianlc (11 September 2008)

Sarah Pailin may be appealing to to independents who know very little about her.  And she will certainly bring out the evangelicals to vote.

But after that ugly performance at the convention, I'm not sure how any minorities can bring themselves to vote republican.

So, its all up to Obama, can he get out the vote?  We'll see.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (11 September 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> Obama is imploding for sure.  As for America, I suspect we will be here and leading the world for many many more years.  You have to be an American I guess to know just how strong and resilient this country is.  Go ahead, take your potshots at us.  We are strong enough to take it.  We are the most optimistic people on earth.




The USA is a great democracy

Sarah Barracuda Palin sure has set the cat amongst the pigeons. The Democrats had to make the worst choice in the world for them, an african american or a woman.

Had they chosen Clinton, they would have been portrayed as racist. Now they are being portrayed as anti-woman.

And Palin is such a cleanskin, and will attract 10-20% of Democrat women plus 100% of Republican women.

Poor Obama. 

Beaten by a Vice Presidential candidate and his own party.

The polls say it all.

gg


----------



## Nashezz (11 September 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Nash, mate,
> 
> Less personal attacks would serve your argument better.
> 
> ...




Sorry GG, 

When you make your many ludicrous and extreme comments about the 'left' and left voters, you are talking about me (and many others). So while you may limit yourself to only directly calling me a 'sad puppy' and other such things (which apparently is not denigration), you are calling me all the other things you seem to associate with someone from the left of politics. I take those comments as personal attacks, as they are.

You also regularly fail to argue my points so I don't see how you can expect different of me. Please refer to Bradk's comments about yourself for better understanding.

I agree about your 2020hindsight comments. I cant' be him though.

I also only asked Calliope to get off his high horse. It WAS idiotic to try and pretend that only the left side of politics engages in dodgy tactics.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (11 September 2008)

Calliope said:


> A good indication of the low morale of the Democrats is the lengths the party and their admirers will go to to dig up dirt on Sarah Palin. And where they cannot find dirt they will use snide innuendo.
> 
> She may not be everybody's cup of tea, but she has more guts than her detractors.




Let us spare a few thoughts for a mother returning to her home state after a great effort at the RNC to farewell one of her sons as he heads off to war.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080911130151.s1h89p33&show_article=1

gg


----------



## ZzzzDad (12 September 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> Actually, Chuck *IS* happy.  He is a big McCain-Palin supporter.  He was very happy about the Palin pick.






nomore4s said:


> See they are even spinning of Chuck facts for Palin now. It's all getting a bit silly.
> 
> Chuck won't be happy.:
> 
> ...





As I said above, Chuck is VERY happy with Sarah Palin:

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=28450

The 'Maverette' 

by Chuck Norris
09/09/2008 

I'll be honest with you. I'd been giving consideration to third-party candidates. As a conservative with a renewed pledge to bear the legacy of America's Founders, I wasn't going to simply concede to the McCain ticket unless he made a credible (and what might be viewed as a radical) choice for vice president.

McCain is a good man, solid in character, and fully capable to lead our country into the future. But America also needs a fresh, reputable outsider who isn't afraid to confront Washington corruption, government gridlock or partisan paralysis. When I heard Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin was McCain's choice, I knew she was a woman whom Americans could support and trust. Sarah is tough, smart, competent, credible and confident enough to fight those even in her own party. I believe she even will help to keep McCain accountable and in check.

Gov. Palin comes from a small town with small-town values. Sarah was sworn in as Alaska's youngest and first female governor, in 2006. This mother of five was tired of seeing government running amuck and awry and stepped into public service to reform it. And she has a clear and long record of doing just that: bucking the status quo, cutting taxes and government waste, reducing big government, establishing ethics committees, pursuing alternative energy, and being pro-family and pro-life (as witnessed by her choice to cherish her baby with Down syndrome and to support her 17-year-old daughter keeping her baby and marrying the father).

The fact is far-left liberals don't know how to respond to strong, conservative female political leaders. They hail Hillary but try to impale Palin. But Sarah has sparred them many times before and has come out of the ring without a scratch. Sarah is so tough that she inspired a new tongue-in-cheek Web site (www.PalinFacts.com), which parallels the "Chuck Norris Facts" folklore Web site (www.ChuckNorrisFacts.com). It gives some mythical, yet complimentary "facts" about Sarah Palin's life, potential, character and career. 

Here are three of my favorites:

 -- Sarah Palin once carved a perfect likeness of the Mona Lisa in a block of ice using only her teeth.

 -- Sarah Palin doesn't need a gun to hunt, because she can throw a bullet through an adult bull elk.

 -- And my favorite: Sarah Palin is courageous and tough enough to shave Chuck Norris's beard -- and face off against his third fist disguised as a chin.

All joking aside, one real fact about Gov. Palin is that both Sens. Barack Obama and Joe Biden are shaking in their boots over her candidacy and prospective appointment to the vice presidency. Obama talks about change, but McCain further lived out his commitment to reform with his choice of Palin to be his running mate. Obama chose government-as-usual Sen. Biden. McCain chose Washington outsider and corruption confronter Gov. Palin.

Obama and Biden not only know that Palin supersedes Biden's finesse and potential but also that (if called to the task) she's even more qualified and tenured in life and government to assume the presidency than Obama himself. As Pat Buchanan explained: "The lady has more executive experience than McCain, Joe Biden and Obama put together. None of them has ever started or run a business as Palin did. None of them has run a giant state like Alaska, which is larger than California and Texas put together." And I might add that none is better suited to serve as president of the Senate than "Vice President Palin," who would keep it more accountable to "us the people."

Forget the cheap talk about change; Gov. Palin is a proven reformer who can help us restore our country and rectify constitutional revisionism and apostasy. Sarah is small-town civil and Texas tough, with a Southern elegance and an urban savvy. If McCain is a maverick, then there's no doubt that Sarah is (if you will) the maverette! Even Oprah seems to be acknowledging the power in Sarah's prowess by refusing to have this hockey mom turned VP nominee on her talk show until "after the campaign is over" -- though she's had Barack (and Michelle) Obama on twice.

Gov. Palin comes to civil service in the spirit of our Founding Mothers. She represents an early-American patriotic spirit that I believe lies sleeping among millions of Americans today and needs to be reawakened. She is the type of revolutionary who will help to wake up and revitalize America and about whom I write in my new book (available now at Amazon.com and Barnes & Noble), "Black Belt Patriotism": "Today, we see women incredibly active in every arena of society. They are often wearing multiple hats, as mother, homemaker, professional, spiritual leader, and community leader. Many serve God, family and country with the same fervor as those valiant female patriots of yesteryear. Women like Abigail Adams, Margaret Corbin, 'Molly Pitcher,' Catherine Ferguson, Dolly Madison, Mercy Warren, Martha Washington, and Betsy Ross."

Well done, Sen. McCain. You have rallied the conservative base and others who were still on the fence. You have thrown a political Hail Mary into the end zone of the District of Columbia and scored a touchdown.

So move over, Mr. Smith, because Mrs. Sarah is going to Washington. Give 'em hell, Sarah! Give 'em hell!

*Ha!  With Chuck on our side, how can we possibly lose!! *


----------



## websman (12 September 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> Obama is imploding for sure.  As for America, I suspect we will be here and leading the world for many many more years.  You have to be an American I guess to know just how strong and resilient this country is.  Go ahead, take your potshots at us.  We are strong enough to take it.  We are the most optimistic people on earth.




I've been all over the world and I have found no place better to live than America.


----------



## Bushman (12 September 2008)

Uncle Sam's acolytes are alive and well it seems. Good for you. Just don't confuse patriotism with nationalism. 

America was a once great democracy until it developed a nasty dependency on bombing third world countries to grease the engines of its economy and appease the blood lust of its right. Stop the war mongering and you rein in your deficit and win the true respect of the world. Simple, no? Oh sorry I forgot about the paranoid pursuit of the abstract 'evil doers'. 

At least McCain has been to war and will think about sacrificing 18-year olds from the rust belt to satisfy the neo-con establishment. He wont think twice about inflicting further 'collateral damage' though especially with his gun loving 'patriot' by his side. Halliburton's Board must be wringing their hands together with glee. 

Tired of war, tired of Britney and most of all, tired of those blood loving elephants (or whatever the creature is that the Republicans identify with).


----------



## gfresh (12 September 2008)

Psychopaths.. I'm quite worried at what will happen if McCain gets in actually.. 

http://www.theage.com.au/world/palin-ready-to-be-president-20080912-4ezs.html



> Palin 'ready to be president'
> 
> * September 12, 2008 - 10:01AM
> 
> ...


----------



## ZzzzDad (12 September 2008)

Bushman said:


> Uncle Sam's acolytes are alive and well it seems. Good for you. Just don't confuse patriotism with nationalism.
> 
> America was a once great democracy until it developed a nasty dependency on bombing third world countries to grease the engines of its economy and appease the blood lust of its right. Stop the war mongering and you rein in your deficit and win the true respect of the world. Simple, no? Oh sorry I forgot about the paranoid pursuit of the abstract 'evil doers'.




Apparently, according to you, there are no evildoers in the world (with the exception to the bloodthirsty U.S.A.)  You need to live in the real world.  There really are terrorists that want to blow us (and you) up.  Living in a fantasyland of "can't we all just get along" is not going to convince the terrorists to stop trying.


----------



## ZzzzDad (12 September 2008)

gfresh said:


> Psychopaths.. I'm quite worried at what will happen if McCain gets in actually..
> 
> http://www.theage.com.au/world/palin-ready-to-be-president-20080912-4ezs.html




This is an opinion piece.  The article linked above is a complete distortion of the actual interview.  Watch the interview, not someones distorted take on the interview.  The author of this piece put in snippets out of context.

Typical.


----------



## Nashezz (12 September 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> Apparently, according to you, there are no evildoers in the world (with the exception to the bloodthirsty U.S.A.)  You need to live in the real world.  There really are terrorists that want to blow us (and you) up.  Living in a fantasyland of "can't we all just get along" is not going to convince the terrorists to stop trying.




Yes Zzzzz, but why do they want to blow you and me up??? There would be no reason for people to gravitate towards that kind of extremism unless they had a serious gripe. 

Didn't Rummy and the rest expect Iraq to welcome them with open arms after getting rid of Saddam? It's this kind of (lack of) thinking that is a bit disturbing. Wouldn't it be nice if the US actually worked out why people are going to these extremes and worked on that, instead of commandeering its economy to fire up the war machine and go bomb the piss out of a load of mostly innocent people.


----------



## Julia (12 September 2008)

> Republican vice-presidential candidate and Sarah Palin has turned warmonger and revealed her hardline stance on foreign affairs, saying she is willing to go to war with Russia over the Georgia conflict if necessary.



Oh, God!   Can't she just stick to killing the native Alaskan wildlife?


----------



## nomore4s (12 September 2008)

Julia said:


> Oh, God!   Can't she just stick to killing the native Alaskan wildlife?




lmao.

A bit of a worry if she ever gets into power.

She seems like a bit of a redneck to me. Maybe she is like a pitbull after all, wanting to fight everyone and everything and if not kept on a short leash becomes a danger to all around it.


----------



## gfresh (12 September 2008)

zzzDad said:
			
		

> . There really are terrorists that want to blow us (and you) up. Living in a fantasyland of "can't we all just get along" is not going to convince the terrorists to stop trying.




Yes they are everywhere, behind every rock, behind every tree, we are doomed!  Terrorism is probably not as much a root of the world's evil as your government likes to make out. 

To put things in perspective. Many more people die in car accidents,suicide,drug addiction each year than terrorist acts against the West ever have... Never mind just as many soldiers have been killed on the "war on terror" as civilians in the September 11 attack, which really is saddening. Blood begetting further blood really moves nothing forward at all, and history has shown this time and time again. 

There's only one country living in fantasy land here, and that is the mighty USA, of whom the world has lost a hell of respect for over the last decade.


----------



## ZzzzDad (12 September 2008)

Julia said:


> Oh, God!   Can't she just stick to killing the native Alaskan wildlife?




Julia, that statement about going to war with Russia is totally out of context.  Don't believe these biased opinion pieces.  Watch the interview yourself.  They are leaving stuff out.  The question was if Georgia was in NATO, would the U.S. be obligated to go to war with Russia if they attacked Georgia.  Hypothetical question.  NATO is an alliance that if one country in it is attacked, then the rest of the NATO members come to their aid.  McCain, Obama, and Biden have all said the same thing.

The Alaska lifestyle includes eating moose, caribou, etc.  They are plentiful up there and there is a balance that needs to be kept.  She actually eats what she shoots.  Unless you are a total vegetarian or vegan, then what difference is it if it is a moose, caribou, cow, chicken or fish?  They can't raise cows in Alaska, nor chickens.  Meat has to be imported, and is double or triple the cost of lower 48 meat.  

If she were just killing wildlife for the sake of killing it, and just leaving it there to rot, that would be one thing.  The fact that they eat it is the important point.


----------



## Timmy (12 September 2008)

While I wish Mr. McCain well, the parallels between Palin and Thatcher (yes, yes, differences too) have me intrigued ....

Thatcher's nomination was greeted with fear and loathing .....The country was in the grip of a dreadful economic times.... She talked very tough on Russia .... Thatcher was an outsider ...... 

Don't think Thatcher did much moose huntin' ....

Palin could be just what the US needs now.


----------



## ZzzzDad (12 September 2008)

gfresh said:


> Yes they are everywhere, behind every rock, behind every tree, we are doomed!  Terrorism is probably not as much a root of the world's evil as your government likes to make out.
> 
> To put things in perspective. Many more people die in car accidents,suicide,drug addiction each year than terrorist acts against the West ever have... Never mind just as many soldiers have been killed on the "war on terror" as civilians in the September 11 attack, which really is saddening. Blood begetting further blood really moves nothing forward at all, and history has shown this time and time again.
> 
> There's only one country living in fantasy land here, and that is the mighty USA, of whom the world has lost a hell of respect for over the last decade.




No, they are not everywhere behind every rock, etc. blah, blah, blah.  They are not because we have taken action against these nutcases, and thus haven't been attacked again in seven years.  We have decided to fight the war proactively, on their ground, so it won't come here.  We have been successful - despite the protestations and doom and gloom of the left.


----------



## nomore4s (12 September 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> No, they are not everywhere behind every rock, etc. blah, blah, blah.  They are not because we have taken action against these nutcases, and thus haven't been attacked again in seven years.  We have decided to fight the war proactively, on their ground, so it won't come here.  We have been successful - despite the protestations and doom and gloom of the left.




lol, you don't work for the US government do you? Or maybe the media? :



Timmy said:


> While I wish Mr. McCain well, the parallels between Palin and Thatcher (yes, yes, differences too) have me intrigued ....
> 
> Thatcher's nomination was greeted with fear and loathing .....The country was in the grip of a dreadful economic times.... She talked very tough on Russia .... Thatcher was an outsider ......
> 
> ...




Could also be the thing that tips them over the edge.

Disclaimer: I don't really have a view either way, don't know enough about US politics or Palin herself.


----------



## Bushman (12 September 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> We have been successful




... in losing 5,000 of your finest combat soldiers, blown to smithereens on dirt tracks fighting a hopeless guerilla war. That is nearly double the number of US citizens killed in 9/11 at a ratio of two soldiers to one investment banker. They don't have to spend money infiltrating America when they can just pick your troops off in palm groves much closer to home. 

...in killing 100,000 Iraqis, most of whom had never heard of Al Q'aeda. Well done. Those that have lost loved ones to the 'American Imperialists' will grow up hating your society. Violence begets violence. Add that to the 2m Vietnamese and Laotians your society killed when infected by fear over the 'Domino Effect'. 

... in selling your Treasury bills on mass to the Saudis, the Singaporeans, the Chinese and the Russians and spending the money on a glorious 'victory' over Iraqis. What on earth? There I thought they were the impediments to your society assuming centre stage in the world?


----------



## ZzzzDad (12 September 2008)

Bushman said:


> ... in losing 5,000 of your finest combat soldiers, blown to smithereens on dirt tracks fighting a hopeless guerilla war. That is nearly double the number of US citizens killed in 9/11 at a ratio of two soldiers to one investment banker. They don't have to spend money infiltrating America when they can just pick your troops off in palm groves much closer to home.
> 
> ...in killing 100,000 Iraqis, most of whom had never heard of Al Q'aeda. Well done. Those that have lost loved ones to the 'American Imperialists' will grow up hating your society. Violence begets violence. Add that to the 2m Vietnamese and Laotians your society killed when infected by fear over the 'Domino Effect'.
> 
> ... in selling your Treasury bills on mass to the Saudis, the Singaporeans, the Chinese and the Russians and spending the money on a glorious 'victory' over Iraqis. What on earth? There I thought they were the impediments to your society assuming centre stage in the world?




These fine 4,000 soldiers were all volunteers.  Most of them signed up wanting to take the fight to the enemy in their country, so that they couldn't build up the capacity to hit us here again, next time causing possibly tens of thousands of lives.  The war is not hopeless, we are winning, or haven't you heard?  The media has suddenly lost interest since the war turned so favorable after the surge.

Most of those innocent Iraqis and Afghanis were killed by fanatical suicide bombers trying to foment civil war in Iraq, to cause chaos, and get us to leave.  Their tactic didn't work.  These suicide bombers purposely blew up tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis and Afghanis.  Markets, schools, neighborhoods, nothing was off limits to them.

These people are brutal, and you are making excuses for them.  They have found out America is no longer a paper tiger.  We did not turn tail and retreat.  That is how you defeat an enemy, and show them that there will be consequences.  I am very proud of what America, Australia, the U.K., the Polish, and many other allies have done in Iraq and Afghanistan.  No apologies.  We did the right thing.


----------



## Bushman (12 September 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> we are winning, or haven't you heard?




You will never win this one with bullets and bombs.


----------



## roland (12 September 2008)

I just saw the summary of the Palin interview on SBS - wahh, she is scarey dumb. The interviewer gave her a hartd time and the Palin responses were definately not very well though out. "War with Russia?" - "sure, if that's what it takes"

"Enter Pakistan, uninvited?" "anything that is required to get the terrorists"


----------



## fordxbt (12 September 2008)

roland said:


> I just saw the summary of the Palin interview on SBS - wahh, she is scarey dumb. The interviewer gave her a hartd time and the Palin responses were definately not very well though out. "War with Russia?" - "sure, if that's what it takes"
> 
> "Enter Pakistan, uninvited?" "anything that is required to get the terrorists"




too right i just watched it too roland
what a power crazy biatch
shes bush in disguise but with bigger attitude!
glass houses!


----------



## wayneL (12 September 2008)

I wonder if any of these people understand the consequences of war with Russia?

I wonder if any of these people understand that they are condemning Russia for the sort of actions they do themselves regularly.

Eat, drink and be merry folks, for tomorrow we die. The cold war is back and we have really dumb people in charge.


----------



## IFocus (12 September 2008)

Zzzz feel a little guilty dissecting your comments as defending the Iraq war makes you a soft target, BTW I supported before the invasion but feel horrified at the deception and how easily I was sucked in. 

Hindsight is wonderful 




ZzzzDad said:


> These fine 4,000 soldiers were all volunteers.  Most of them signed up wanting to take the fight to the enemy in their country, so that they couldn't build up the capacity to hit us here again, next time causing possibly tens of thousands of lives.  The war is not hopeless, we are winning, or haven't you heard?  The media has suddenly lost interest since the war turned so favorable after the surge.




Yes your troops are the finest young men and women and deserve total support. General Petraeus has made the impossible happen.




> Most of those innocent Iraqis and Afghanis were killed by fanatical suicide bombers trying to foment civil war in Iraq, to cause chaos, and get us to leave.  Their tactic didn't work.  These suicide bombers purposely blew up tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis and Afghanis.  Markets, schools, neighborhoods, nothing was off limits to them.




this is where it gets sticky, US military invading killed innumerable amounts of civilians, collateral damage, its a part of war but unnecessary all the same I believe you are still ahead in pure numbers. 



> These people are brutal, and you are making excuses for them.  They have found out America is no longer a paper tiger.  We did not turn tail and retreat.  That is how you defeat an enemy, and show them that there will be consequences.  I am very proud of what America, Australia, the U.K., the Polish, and many other allies have done in Iraq and Afghanistan.  No apologies.  We did the right thing.




AAhhh no they only turned up because of the invasion no other reason they were not there before and no we didn't do the right thing in the end our war kill x tens of thousands more than Saddam ever did history will not look kindly on our actions just like Vietnam its those fine young men and women who will take the brunt losing life, arms legs and in many cases their minds.

I have family from the Vietnam war they will never recover and for what?

They went for the same BS your hero politician's sprout now, Palin is very naive if she truly understood the horrors of war not to mention the current pointless reasons her son would not be going.


----------



## Timmy (12 September 2008)

If terrorism is the result of us (Australia and the USA etc.) invading another country then why are there no Vietnamese terrorists?


----------



## Calliope (12 September 2008)

Timmy said:


> If terrorism is the result of us (Australia and the USA etc.) invading another country then why are there no Vietnamese terrorists?




As usual you have inserted some sanity into the debate. The American haters have been attracted to this thread like flies to a honeypot. I suppose GG knew this would happen when he opened the thread. It makes sense if they confine their venom to one site and leave other threads to rational debaters, but of course they wont.


----------



## IFocus (12 September 2008)

Timmy said:


> If terrorism is the result of us (Australia and the USA etc.) invading another country then why are there no Vietnamese terrorists?




Fighting terrorism is one thing, the perpetrator of 9/11 Asama was in Afghanistan how was invading Iraq fighting terrorism?


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (12 September 2008)

Sarah Palin is giving the Russians a fair warning that their expansionist games will not be tolerated.

At last the US will have leaders who will stand up to the enemies of democracy.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4933f08e-8054-11dd-99a9-000077b07658.html


----------



## 2020hindsight (12 September 2008)

wayneL said:


> I wonder if any of these people understand the consequences of war with Russia?
> 
> ...The cold war is back and we have really dumb people in charge.



I'm thinking it simply confirms Putin's claims that the GOP were behind the entire Georgian incident  - 

..... really dumb people , who also happen to be really cunning


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (12 September 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> I'm thinking it simply confirms Putin's claims that the GOP were behind the entire Georgian incident  -
> 
> ..... really dumb people , who also happen to be really cunning




The Russians won't be happy 2020.

They have long memories.

Never ever call them really dumb, or cunning.

You might end up with  a cube of polonium 210 rather than a non sugar sweetener in your Saturday morning latte. 

gg


----------



## 2020hindsight (12 September 2008)

lol - who do you think I was calling dumb and cunning ?


----------



## Julia (12 September 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> T
> Most of those innocent Iraqis and Afghanis were killed by fanatical suicide bombers trying to foment civil war in Iraq, to cause chaos, and get us to leave.  Their tactic didn't work.  These suicide bombers purposely blew up tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis and Afghanis.  Markets, schools, neighborhoods, nothing was off limits to them.



And nothing was off limits to the Americans and their allies, when they invaded/bombed Afghanistan and Iraq.   I still  feel sick when I remember GWB's voice saying they would experience "Shock and Awe"!  And we saw the night sky lit up over both countries with the bombs.

And now there is all the rumbling about Iran having nuclear capacity, or almost.   Why do I have a sense of deja vu?   
The invasion of Iraq has solved nothing.   It was done on a manufactured premise.    But it has killed and maimed thousands of innocent people.   
Why wouldn't the people from that part of the world regard America (and her allies) with fear, loathing and suspicion?

How would we in Australia feel if some country from the other side of the world bombed us almost out of existence?  Those of you who are supporting what America has done are seeming to neglect any consideration of how much the lives of ordinary Afghanis and Iraquis have been devastated.

Up until now, I've had no feelings for wanting either side in America to win the coming election, but when I hear some of the remarks from Ms Palin (who wouldn't be saying what she does were the comments not sanctioned by her party), I very much hope Obama will become the President.


----------



## Doris (13 September 2008)

*ABC coup interview with Palin*.

Palin on Energy and Climate Change:

"John McCain and I are working on it..."

http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=5785679


Does Palin agree with the Bush Doctrine?  ... ( or how to answer when you do not understand   a question!)

http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=5786856


Palin Fact Check from her interview:

http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=5786925


Pundits break down Palin interview:

Three times Charlie asked her a simple question about invading an ally... and she gave her rote reply.

http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=5787036

BTW:
Anne Kornblut writes in The Washington Post:

"Gov. Sarah Palin linked the war in Iraq with the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, telling an Iraq-bound brigade of soldiers that included her son that they would '*defend the innocent from the enemies who planned and carried out and rejoiced in the death of thousands of Americans*,' " 

"The idea that the Iraqi government under Saddam Hussein helped al-Qaeda plan the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, *a view once promoted by Bush administration officials, has since been rejected even by the president himself."*


----------



## jeflin (13 September 2008)

Bushman said:


> ... in losing 5,000 of your finest combat soldiers, blown to smithereens on dirt tracks fighting a hopeless guerilla war. That is nearly double the number of US citizens killed in 9/11 at a ratio of two soldiers to one investment banker. They don't have to spend money infiltrating America when they can just pick your troops off in palm groves much closer to home.
> 
> ...in killing 100,000 Iraqis, most of whom had never heard of Al Q'aeda. Well done. Those that have lost loved ones to the 'American Imperialists' will grow up hating your society. Violence begets violence. Add that to the 2m Vietnamese and Laotians your society killed when infected by fear over the 'Domino Effect'.
> 
> ... in selling your Treasury bills on mass to the Saudis, the Singaporeans, the Chinese and the Russians and spending the money on a glorious 'victory' over Iraqis. What on earth? There I thought they were the impediments to your society assuming centre stage in the world?





About the deaths attributed to Iraq war (both Americans and Iraqis), I doubt if Bush gives a damn. He doesn't even have the decency to justify the war anymore. 

Weapons of mass destruction and terrorism were unsubstantiated. His main motive is to secure the oil fields. 

And the whereabouts of Treasury bills matter little to Bush. If you want to redemn it tomorrow, just print out more money to cover the obligation and if you want to dump it, even better, you suffer a heavy loss and it becomes almost worthless. 

Everything comes full circle as the money goes back to America through Treasury bills, they spend it, and these countries use it to purchase more bills. Sweet little scam.


----------



## Doris (13 September 2008)

First part of Palin ABC interview:


I sympathize with Charlie... so patient and tolerant but frustrated!

She sounds like a politician... has her rote answer ready regardless of the question... pretending to be wise.

She tries hard but is such a try-hard!  Only in Hollywood! .... ooops... I mean... America!


----------



## wayneL (13 September 2008)

Doris said:


> First part of Palin ABC interview:
> 
> 
> I sympathize with Charlie... so patient and tolerant but frustrated!
> ...



I despair for the western world. 

We're ****ed.


----------



## wayneL (13 September 2008)

Please vote for Obama, America.

The alternative is unthinkable. 

(i.e. the lesser of two evils)


----------



## Sean K (13 September 2008)

Is Kramar supporting Elaine and the GWB older version. 

I think Jerry might be a better option actually?

Maybe Homer might have more cred?


----------



## websman (13 September 2008)

Bushman said:


> You will never win this one with bullets and bombs.




Looks to me as if we are already winning this one. 
You'd be surprised at how effective bombs and bullets can be when dealing with a terrorist.


----------



## websman (13 September 2008)

wayneL said:


> Please vote for Obama, America.
> 
> The alternative is unthinkable.
> 
> (i.e. the lesser of two evils)




Sorry, but I'm voting for McCain!


----------



## websman (13 September 2008)

nomore4s said:


> lmao.
> 
> A bit of a worry if she ever gets into power.
> 
> She seems like a bit of a redneck to me. Maybe she is like a pitbull after all, wanting to fight everyone and everything and if not kept on a short leash becomes a danger to all around it.




I'm a redneck...and proud of it!


----------



## websman (13 September 2008)

gfresh said:


> Psychopaths.. I'm quite worried at what will happen if McCain gets in actually..
> 
> http://www.theage.com.au/world/palin-ready-to-be-president-20080912-4ezs.html




You should only worry if you happen to be a terrorist.  As of this time, we have no plans on invading Australia.


----------



## wayneL (13 September 2008)

websman said:


> You should only worry if you happen to be a terrorist.  As of this time, we have no plans on invading Australia.



So America rules the world... with terror. Hmmmm.

Shock and Awe anyone?

Anyway, no need to invade, Australia IS America.</hyperbole>


----------



## websman (13 September 2008)

wayneL said:


> So America rules the world... with terror. Hmmmm.
> 
> Shock and Awe anyone?
> 
> Anyway, no need to invade, Australia IS America.





Huh???   LOL


----------



## caribean (13 September 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> The USA is a great democracy
> 
> Sarah Barracuda Palin sure has set the cat amongst the pigeons. The Democrats had to make the worst choice in the world for them, an african american or a woman.
> 
> ...



Your "depth" of political analysis is about as good as Palin's, i hope there is a god, we'll need him.
What is it with branding anyone who's against the extreme right, a "leftist"
that trick has been played out in so many countries since the 50's, with the more recent quote " you're with us, or, you're against us", can't you see the world can not keep going with that stupidity of "us and them"?
Do you really understand what democracy means?
500000 Indonesians were killed because they were "leftists" no one said anything!!
Is this how the world will keep going? 
Fueling the "us and them" mentality will get us nowhere, extremes of the left and right will keep manipulating people without a good grasp of international politics.
Educate yourselves, to create a balanced mind, for all our sake.....


----------



## wayneL (13 September 2008)

websman said:


> Huh???   LOL




Learn your own history webs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_military_history_events


----------



## websman (13 September 2008)

wayneL said:


> Learn your own history webs.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_military_history_events





Looks like a history to be proud of!  Thanks for sharing it!!!


----------



## wayneL (13 September 2008)

websman said:


> Looks like a history to be proud of!  Thanks for sharing it!!!



Some should be a matter of great pride.

Some (many of the recent ones) a matter of great shame.


----------



## websman (13 September 2008)

wayneL said:


> Some should be a matter of great pride.
> 
> Some (many of the recent ones) a matter of great shame.




Shame is the farthest thing from my mind.  I am proud to be called an American!


----------



## Nashezz (13 September 2008)

websman said:


> Shame is the farthest thing from my mind.  I am proud to be called an American!




Don't let your patriotism get in the way of understanding that the US has ****ed up a lot of people and places with poor vision and inept use of its war machine. And now the populaces of even your 'allies' are over the continual stupidity.


----------



## websman (13 September 2008)

Nashezz said:


> Don't let your patriotism get in the way of understanding that the US has ****ed up a lot of people and places with poor vision and inept use of its war machine. And now the populaces of even your 'allies' are over the continual stupidity (not helped by a largely blind and ignorant populace).





So...Are you an islamic extremist or just a communist?


----------



## cuttlefish (13 September 2008)

Doris said:


> I sympathize with Charlie... so patient and tolerant but frustrated!




The sad irony is that, as bad as the interview is, compared to George Dubya she looks like a Mensa member.   I mean - she actually knows the names of the leaders of countries and she even seems to be aware of the location of some of them and even has some idea of whats been going on in them - this cannot do for a potential republican president.   But at least she has the key attribute required to be a republican president - which is knowing that the solution to all of the problems is to bomb the cr*p out of them - and that its not only their right, but their duty to do so at every opportunity (in the name of freedom, peace, democracy, god and oil). :


----------



## wayneL (13 September 2008)

websman said:


> So...Are you an islamic extremist or just a communist?




AWOOGA! Straw man alert!


----------



## 2020hindsight (13 September 2008)

websman]I'm a redneck...and proud of it! [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=websman said:


> Shame is the farthest thing from my mind.  I am proud to be called an American!



And most of my amenerican friends would be cringing about now 

PS  I've played hundreds of games of chess with a bloke who has several Republican senators in his family, one who came close to being President no less.  - I'm 100% confident that even he would call your comments totally cringe-worthy.


----------



## wayneL (13 September 2008)

Webs

Why do you think it is that the US is so despised, even among your allies. The UK is probably your closest ally, yet a good 80% hate your government (not your people you understand).

Hint: It ain't jealousy and it ain't your "freedom".


----------



## 2020hindsight (13 September 2008)

Why is it that John Bolton comes to mind ... ?
US Representative to the UN 2006

"America doesn't do carrots !"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_R._Bolton

http://kerryforpresident2008.blogspot.com/2005/04/john-bolton-unacceptable-i-dont-do.html



> John Bolton, talked about carrots when discussing the European Union's attempt to offer Iran incentives in regards to their nuclear program. He stated:
> "I don't do carrots."
> 
> (Hey Mr Bolton), Carrots are good for you. Vitamin A. Help you with your eyes.
> ...






> .....
> Oh and those carrots. Will you send some to President Bush. He is having a hard time seeing also. He doesn't see what he is doing to America. He *doesn't see what making a mockery of the United Nations does to world peace*. He doesn't see the danger in tearing down institutions that haven't been very helpful to him.
> 
> *It is the vision thing.*
> ...


----------



## 2020hindsight (13 September 2008)

and websman
no doubt you'll respond (assuming you read that last post) , "ahh that's just an article by one of John Kerry's groupies saying that"

Well, just to remind you, here's a couple of photos.  .. Kerry vs Bush.


----------



## 2020hindsight (13 September 2008)

I remember a quote by Johnny Cash - 
"The hardest thing for me in Vietnam wasn't seeing the wounded and dead. It was watching the big transport jets come in, bringing loads of fresh new boys for the war." – Johnny Cash.

 Johnny Cash- What is Truth

backups, in case that youtube is wiped :-
http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...&search_type=&aq=0&oq=johnny+cash+what+is+tru



> A little boy of three sittin' on the floor
> Looks up and says, "Daddy, what is war?"
> "son, that's when people fight and die"
> The little boy of three says "Daddy, why?"
> ...


----------



## jeflin (13 September 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> I remember a quote by Johnny Cash -
> "The hardest thing for me in Vietnam wasn't seeing the wounded and dead. It was watching the big transport jets come in, bringing loads of fresh new boys for the war." – Johnny Cash.
> 
> Johnny Cash- What is Truth
> ...





Does Bush bother about such statements? Given a chance to get involved in another war and oil fields as prizes, he will have no qualms sending truckloads of fresh new boys to the front line.


----------



## wayneL (13 September 2008)

Peter Brookes of The Times strikes again:


----------



## Julia (13 September 2008)

Does she want to teach creationism, Wayne?


----------



## ZzzzDad (13 September 2008)

Julia,

A good source of fact and fiction on both sides of the political divide is www.factcheck.org

Some of the untruths about Sarah Palin are on this page of their website:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html

Personally, I think factcheck.org leans left, but I could be biased.


----------



## Bushman (13 September 2008)

Timmy said:


> If terrorism is the result of us (Australia and the USA etc.) invading another country then why are there no Vietnamese terrorists?




Err they won mate. Remember they demoralised the French and the Yanks until they withdrew. 

'Terrorism' is a geopolitical tool. Bin Laden wanted to draw the US into attacking the Islamic heartlands, thereby making it so much easier to sprout that the US were embarking on a new Christian crusade hand-in-hand with their great ally Israel. Off course the Yanks would react like they always have reacted in the past.  There were a few (albeit it well organised and financed). Now there are many.

This 'for us or against us' Dubya bullsh*t will tear the world apart. Palin talking about invading Georgia send a chill through my body. Remember 'duck and cover'? And all the time Bin Laden is sitting in his cave, smilling a little smile because the good old boys have done his job for him. 

PS: I detest warfare, not Americans. There have been very many great Americans that I admire.


----------



## 2020hindsight (14 September 2008)

Bushman said:


> Bin Laden wanted to draw the US into attacking ..... There were a few .... Now there are many.
> 
> This 'for us or against us' Dubya bullsh*t will tear the world apart. Palin talking about invading Georgia send a chill through my body...



agree 110% bushman - well said.

I even agree with the CIA on this occasion 



> In October 2002, well before the invasion of Iraq, the Central Intelligence Agency warned that military action in the Middle East would foment serious resistance and actually recruit more terrorists




https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=219498&highlight=manchurian#post219498

http://hnn.us/articles/32618.html by Mr. Buzzanco, Professor of History, 







> University of Houston, is the author of several books and articles on Vietnam War
> 
> *If enemies of the United States had gotten together a few years ago to devise a plan to damage America *and undermine its global position–diminish its power and credibility, drag it into a stubborn war, harm its relations with allies, create international financial disarray, run up huge deficits, create political openings for the Europeans and China to exploit and become equals in global economic matters, *motivate terrorists, bring the U.S. image in the Middle East to its nadir, restrict civil liberties at home, and so forth–they would have been hard-pressed to create a program that would be more effective than the Bush administration’s policies *on these issues of war, terrorism, and global economics have.
> 
> ...





http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2005/10/manchurian_cand.html


> the longer President Bush occupies the White House the more it becomes clear that his big-government domestic policies, his preference for Republican and business cronies over talented administrators, his lack of a clear intellectual compass and his superficial and often wrong-headed grasp of international affairs – all have done more to destroy the legacy of Ronald Reagan, a President who halted then reversed America’s post-Vietnam decline, than any left-liberal Democrat or European America-hater could ever have dreamed of. As one astute American conservative commentator has already observed, President Bush has morphed into the Manchurian Candidate, behaving as if placed among Americans by their enemies to do them damage.


----------



## 2020hindsight (14 September 2008)

...
Mr. Buzzanco, Professor of History, University of Houston :-


> Like a “sleeper” agent, or Laurence Harvey’s famed character, Sgt. Raymond Shaw, in The Manchurian Candidate, *George W. Bush, the ultimate insider, is doing more to damage America than Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, Hassan Nasrallah, the Syrians, the Iranians, or any other enemy du jour, ever could*.


----------



## Doris (15 September 2008)

*Did Tina Fey out-Palin Palin on 'Saturday Night Live'?*


----------



## Nashezz (15 September 2008)

websman said:


> So...Are you an islamic extremist or just a communist?




lol. Is that what you call everyone who points out a fact you disagree with?

Nice post Bushman.


----------



## Onethong (15 September 2008)

Todd Palin, husband of Republican vice-presidential nominee Sarah Palin, has been ordered to testify to an inquiry into her alleged abuse of power.

The Alaska legislative probe began after Mrs Palin was accused of pressuring staff to fire her sister's ex-husband as a state trooper. 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7613582.stm


----------



## websman (15 September 2008)

Nashezz said:


> lol. Is that what you call everyone who points out a fact you disagree with?
> 
> Nice post Bushman.





Yes, because I am a bad person.  LOL


----------



## 2020hindsight (16 September 2008)

Listening to this bloke last night (suspect he leans left btw) .. 
"Sarah Palin probably thinks Lehman Bros are those two fellas she met touring Alaska the other day " 

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2008/s2365255.htm



> Ambassador Derek Shearer, who is a professor at Occidental University in Los Angeles and Fairfax columnist Michael West join Tony Jones to discuss the implications of Lehman Brothers declaring bankruptcy


----------



## wayneL (16 September 2008)

Doris said:


> First part of Palin ABC interview:
> 
> 
> I sympathize with Charlie... so patient and tolerant but frustrated!
> ...




Folks,

I'm definitely not a Palin fan, but I like truth. The above interview was disingenuously edited to cast a different light on the woman.

Some of the unedited transcript here (with further links to the full transcript):

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gl...ws-edited-out-key-parts-sarah-palin-interview


----------



## 2020hindsight (16 September 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> Listening to this bloke last night (suspect he leans left btw) ..
> "Sarah Palin probably thinks Lehman Bros are those two fellas she met touring Alaska the other day "
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2008/s2365255.htm



........




> TONY JONES: Well indeed, and no one can believe it seems that Lehman Brothers is gone, effectively gone. Merrill Lynch is being sold out at bargain basement prices but there's more to come.
> 
> I mean one of the biggest insurance groups in America, AIG, also looks like it's teetering on the brink. How much worse could it get?
> 
> ...






> DEREK SHEARER: ..*we know Senator McCain has supported President Bush 90 per cent of the time. We know his economics; at least as he stated them are the same as Bush.*
> 
> On the other hand, he is now marketing himself as a maverick, a reformer who's sort of above party. So he's going to have to prove that and he doesn't really like economics, it doesn't interest him, he gets confused when he talks about it.
> 
> He's going to have to be much clearer about what he would do.




Obama by comparison ...



> And I think you'll have to expect Obama to be much clearer. He's going to have to say what does he mean by these statements, what kind of reforms would he take?
> 
> TONY JONES: He's very good at the populist rhetoric, but how good is he going to be when it comes to the nitty gritty of describing in detail how to solve this shocking financial crisis?
> 
> ...


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (16 September 2008)

wayneL said:


> Folks,
> 
> I'm definitely not a Palin fan, but I like truth. The above interview was disingenuously edited to cast a different light on the woman.
> 
> ...




Thanks for that wayneL.

Truth will always suffer in any political campaign.

I'm sure there are similar misinterpretations of Obama, the one I disliked most that some media ran with  was his gaffe over saying he was a Muslim when he meant to say Christian.

The upshot is that ordinary folk mistrust the liberal/left media. They are shunning it in droves. Look at Fairfax, falling readership at SMH and the Age.

In the USA the votes which will decide this are held in the hands of people who do not read the NY Times or other left media, feel disenfranchised by "their betters", and seek validation for their own folksy lives in politicians like Palin and McCain.

gg


----------



## Agentm (16 September 2008)

you guys have no doubt seen this one


----------



## Nashezz (16 September 2008)

:topic 

I once spoke to a senior editor of the Courier Mail. He said once they discarded the broadsheet format, a couple of years ago, their readership went up massively (no surprise to me really, Courier Mail has the same quality journalism seen in the Daily Telegraph imo). He predicted (and in my mind it would be a very sad day) that the other broadsheets would have to follow on sheer economic sense. 

I don't really understand your logic either GG. We just voted in a leftist government but because two quality newspapers are APPARENTLY (gee whiz that raving lunatic Miranda Devine is considered a top opinion writer for the SMH....) leftist they are leaving it in droves????

Argument doesn't make sense to me.


----------



## 2020hindsight (16 September 2008)

Nashezz said:


> :topic
> ...(gee whiz that raving lunatic Miranda Devine is considered a top opinion writer for the SMH....)



pfffft ......, (sprays a mouthful of the last of my wine collection - next week it will be metho ...)

nash, 
Think I've read her column about 3 times - that was enough for me


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (16 September 2008)

Agentm said:


> you guys have no doubt seen this one




I would be more than happy to see this pair in the oval office.

gg


----------



## 2020hindsight (16 September 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I would be more than happy to see this pair in the oval office.



or silicone valley  

(photoshop again!)

PS "as clever as a silicone cleavage" - you heard it first on ASF


----------



## Timmy (18 September 2008)

Oh, AgentM, GG ... and 2020...

This is an article from the News website by Emma Tom.  I must admit I had a good few laughs at it.  Tom makes some points about the outdated attitudes towards women it expresses ... but in a political contest it seems nothing is off limits.  And, wow, US political commentary is certainly robust.

Sleaziest campaign abuse


----------



## 2020hindsight (18 September 2008)

Timmy said:


> And, wow, US political commentary is certainly robust.
> 
> Sleaziest campaign abuse



thanks for that timmy, lol - that is classic 
good article though... (not just being flippant here) ...



> "Palin may have been a boost of political Viagra for the limp, bloodless GOP," Wilson wrote, "(but) ideologically, she is their hardcore pornographic centrefold spread."
> 
> It's understandable that many women want to distance themselves from Palin given her rabid anti-abortion stance. It's also understandable that the feminist establishment is bristling at suggestions that Clinton supporters will flock to Palin simply because she also has a vagina. As Gloria Steinem wrote last week: "Palin shares nothing but a chromosome with Clinton."






> But it's not good enough for disappointed members of the Left to justify their offensive remarks about Palin on the grounds that their opponents said similar things about Clinton. To twist the words of Voltaire: Some of us may  disapprove of what Palin says, but all of us should defend to the death her right to say it without being called a skanky ho.




Hell I'd say that it sure is a twist on Voltaire ... i.e.   she can say it - in fact if it helps understand her attitudes / policy - and she could well be a known-unknown president in the near future -  through possibly the trickiest period in recent history , 2 wars and an economic crisis to manage etc - she is duty bound to say it ...  but  that doesn't mean we have to like it.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (18 September 2008)

The upshot of it all is that when McCain and Palin get in, it will be a validation for all the hardworking, ordinary people, who have had to suffer an elite Hollywood herpetic media castigating their values and lives.

Thank god the final "poll" is one's vote.

The USA equivalent of the Australian carping champagne socialists will get their just deserves.

Another 4 years of conservative government.

gg


----------



## Nashezz (18 September 2008)

Hooray, the last 8 have been so great for Americans and the world at large. (particularly all those hard working, ordinary people living the American dream of mortgage defaults that the conservative party is famous for looking after)

bring on more of the same


----------



## mit (18 September 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> The upshot of it all is that when McCain and Palin get in, it will be a validation for all the hardworking, ordinary people, who have had to suffer an elite Hollywood herpetic media castigating their values and lives.
> 
> Thank god the final "poll" is one's vote.
> 
> ...




Is this guy for real? The republicans idea of the working man is anybody earning over $250k (Truthfully, McCain keeps saying that Obama's new taxes are going to hurt the working man).

After the republican bounce, the polls are going the other way very quickly. Obviously, they picked Palin because they thought that any female would grab the disgruntled Clinton supporters, so they overlooked her baggage. 

One of the problems that they have had this time is the Obama has a spine. Anytime in the past when the democrats have criticized an opponent, they have backed off because they might offend somebody. This time Barak is giving it to them, even Fox is being cautious about Palin.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (18 September 2008)

mit said:


> Is this guy for real? The republicans idea of the working man is anybody earning over $250k (Truthfully, McCain keeps saying that Obama's new taxes are going to hurt the working man).
> 
> After the republican bounce, the polls are going the other way very quickly. Obviously, they picked Palin because they thought that any female would grab the disgruntled Clinton supporters, so they overlooked her baggage.
> 
> One of the problems that they have had this time is the Obama has a spine. Anytime in the past when the democrats have criticized an opponent, they have backed off because they might offend somebody. This time Barak is giving it to them, even Fox is being cautious about Palin.




I can only speak from my own experience but the only people I know earning year in year out $250,000 a year in Queensland are upper range Labor hacks in government jobs.

I know many self made women and men whose income fluctuates above and below that from year to year, but they don't have the safety net that the technocrats enjoy.

Most folk I know, nurses, miners, teachers, police, public servants, students, academics, military, lawyers, medicos and farmers would not reach that figure.

And they are the people who abhor the two faced left wing prattle about equality.

They are the backbone of our society and represented by people like Sarah Palin.

I'm sure its the same in the USA.

gg


----------



## websman (19 September 2008)

Nashezz said:


> Hooray, the last 8 have been so great for Americans and the world at large. (particularly all those hard working, ordinary people living the American dream of mortgage defaults that the conservative party is famous for looking after)
> 
> bring on more of the same




I'm an ordinary American and I don't have a defaulted mortgage...  It's all about using common sense.  Lenders and buyers alike have been very careless.  I was always taught that if you jump in water over your head, you better know how to swim....and if you can't swim, you sink.


----------



## ZzzzDad (19 September 2008)

websman said:


> I'm an ordinary American and I don't have a defaulted mortgage...  It's all about using common sense.  Lenders and buyers alike have been very careless.  I was always taught that if you jump in water over your head, you better know how to swim....and if you can't swim, you sink.





Exactly.  Most of us Republicans make nowhere near $250,000 a year.  We don't believe the Democrats when they say they are only going to raise the taxes of those people making more than that.  We know they are going to come after the middle class too, because that is where the money really is to enact the trillion plus in new programs that Obama has promised.

Most Republicans are middle class, not wealthy elites. 

Sarah is one of us, and we are proud of her.  She is exciting a lot of voters that were disenchanted with McCain.  The election won't even be close.


----------



## Knobby22 (19 September 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> Exactly.  Most of us Republicans make nowhere near $250,000 a year.  We don't believe the Democrats when they say they are only going to raise the taxes of those people making more than that.  We know they are going to come after the middle class too, because that is where the money really is to enact the trillion plus in new programs that Obama has promised.
> 
> Most Republicans are middle class, not wealthy elites.
> 
> Sarah is one of us, and we are proud of her.  She is exciting a lot of voters that were disenchanted with McCain.  The election won't even be close.




Why don't you want the USA to have the new programs Obama has promised?
Do you know how bad it is in the US is to the rest of the world in terms of public (ie shared resources) such as healthcare, parks etc.?

I have worked around the world and feel sorry for the US way of life that has really dropped. For instance which country has the highest deaths of young mothers and newborn babies in the western world, the answer is the USA!!!

From the New York Times - HOLLANDALE, Miss. ”” For decades, Mississippi and neighboring states with large black populations and expanses of enduring poverty made steady progress in reducing infant death. But, in what health experts call an ominous portent, progress has stalled and in recent years the death rate has risen in Mississippi and several other states. 


Nicole Bengiveno/The New York Times
Irma Johnson, a home visitor, with Erica Moore and Ms. Moore’s twins. 
The setbacks have raised questions about the impact of cuts in welfare and Medicaid and of poor access to doctors, and, many doctors say, the growing epidemics of obesity, diabetes and hypertension among potential mothers, some of whom tip the scales here at 300 to 400 pounds.

“I don’t think the rise is a fluke, and it’s a disturbing trend, not only in Mississippi but throughout the Southeast,” said Dr. Christina Glick, a neonatologist in Jackson, Miss., and past president of the National Perinatal Association. 

To the shock of Mississippi officials, who in 2004 had seen the infant mortality rate ”” defined as deaths by the age of 1 year per thousand live births ”” fall to 9.7, the rate jumped sharply in 2005, to 11.4. The national average in 2003, the last year for which data have been compiled, was 6.9. Smaller rises also occurred in 2005 in Alabama, North Carolina and Tennessee. Louisiana and South Carolina saw rises in 2004 and have not yet reported on 2005. 

Whether the rises continue or not, federal officials say, rates have stagnated in the Deep South at levels well above the national average. 

Most striking, here and throughout the country, is the large racial disparity. In Mississippi, infant deaths among blacks rose to 17 per thousand births in 2005 from 14.2 per thousand in 2004, while those among whites rose to 6.6 per thousand from 6.1. (The national average in 2003 was 5.7 for whites and 14.0 for blacks.) 

The overall jump in Mississippi meant that 65 more babies died in 2005 than in the previous year, for a total of 481.


----------



## Doris (19 September 2008)

Is Palin a quick-on-her-feet debater who thrives in the crucible of political confrontation?

Ever since she sat down with ABC News anchor Charlie Gibson last week, Republicans have complained that the venerable newsman was unforgivably condescending and aloof.

Palin granted her first U.S. cable interview this week to Fox News’ Sean Hannity, who was hardly aiming to repeat Gibson’s effrontery.
(Typical question: “Explain when you were governor, and as governor of Alaska, how you took on your own party.”)

Does Palin support the U.S. government’s bailout of failing corporations to prevent financial crisis?

“Well, you know, first, Fannie and Freddie, different because quasi-government agencies there where government had to step in because the adverse impacts all across our nation, especially with home owners, is just too impacting.”

Here’s another exchange representative of her empty rhetoric:

Hannity: “Who’s responsible for these failing institutions on Wall Street?”

Palin: “Corruption on Wall Street that’s what’s to blame …There’s a toxic waste on Wall Street affecting Main Street, and we gotta cure this.”




Can't wait for her debate on 2 October!


----------



## Nashezz (19 September 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I can only speak from my own experience but the only people I know earning year in year out $250,000 a year in Queensland are upper range Labor hacks in government jobs.
> 
> I know many self made women and men whose income fluctuates above and below that from year to year, but they don't have the safety net that the technocrats enjoy.
> 
> ...






ZzzzDad said:


> Exactly.  Most of us Republicans make nowhere near $250,000 a year.  We don't believe the Democrats when they say they are only going to raise the taxes of those people making more than that.  We know they are going to come after the middle class too, because that is where the money really is to enact the trillion plus in new programs that Obama has promised.
> 
> Most Republicans are middle class, not wealthy elites.
> 
> Sarah is one of us, and we are proud of her.  She is exciting a lot of voters that were disenchanted with McCain.  The election won't even be close.




Firstly, ZzzDad I don't think you were meant to take GGs anecdote literally - his anecdotes are... well.... you know. I mean obviously it is all 'Labor hacks' that have cushy $250,000 a year jobs working for gov't cause GG knows. The media on the other hand don't seem to care about this as they, the left wing conspirators (ie media owners), have made sure the story doesn't get out. C'mon GG can you tell us the names of all the Labor hacks you know entrenched in these high paid jobs so we can expose it to the public (other than through this venerable forum).

What is two-faced about earning good money and talking about equality? Perhaps you misunderstand what equality in this sense is. It is a society where everyone has the same access, or ability to access, 'success' based on merit rather than wealth (ie being born to a wealthy family). What is your problem with that concept?

ZzzzDad if you Republicans are all poor hard working individuals and all the traditional left voters are all poor hard working individuals - who is earning all the money?



websman said:


> I'm an ordinary American and I don't have a defaulted mortgage...  It's all about using common sense.  Lenders and buyers alike have been very careless.  I was always taught that if you jump in water over your head, you better know how to swim....and if you can't swim, you sink.




lol Websman - really? Wow - I thought everyone had defaulted mortgages over there, that was obviously the point of my post. I happen to own a house in the states as my wife is american. It has gone down by approximately $140,000 in value in the last two years and when we tried to sell it earlier this year we couldn't find a buyer - that situation has happened because lenders engaged in crap practice  - no argument there. But, surely that bad, and ultimately, doomed to failure type of practice should have been regulated by the gov't of the day? We wouldn't be in this mess if it had been.


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## 2020hindsight (19 September 2008)

Olbermann interviews Assoc Prof of Politics at Princeton Uni, Melissa Harris-Lacewell 
(his interviewing style differs somewhat from O'Reilly's ) 

 Countdown: Hagel and Harris-Lacewell on Palin



> "I don't think we've talked enough about how Palin may have energised one part of the republican party, but also may have irritated other parts of the republican party"
> 
> ........
> "IMO It's her *actual* experience that has independent voters concerned - experience as an executive - ... and the decisions she made as an executive demonstrate secrecy divisiveness a willingness to put her friends and colleagues in positions of power that they are not ready for - and that looks an awful lot like the Bush Cheney Whitehouse .."
> ...


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## websman (20 September 2008)

Nashezz said:


> lol Websman - really? Wow - I thought everyone had defaulted mortgages over there, that was obviously the point of my post. I happen to own a house in the states as my wife is american. It has gone down by approximately $140,000 in value in the last two years and when we tried to sell it earlier this year we couldn't find a buyer - that situation has happened because lenders engaged in crap practice  - no argument there. But, surely that bad, and ultimately, doomed to failure type of practice should have been regulated by the gov't of the day? We wouldn't be in this mess if it had been.




Sounds like you paid too much for your house.  The reason you paid to much for your house is that you fell into the same trap as a lot of other folks did.  You bought into the housing bubble.  Home prices increased because of greed and speculation.  I'm personally glad to see home prices falling...Hopefully they will fall further.  Maybe homes will become affordable again.  We don't need any more government regulation.  It may take a while, but the housing crises will take care of itself.  

Too much government involvment leads to socialism, and that's exactly what Obama wants.  America was not founded on Socialism.  Freedom is the was the goal of our forefathers, who wrote the constitution.  Sarah Palin is a great representation of our system and way of life.   We own guns, We pay for our own medical care, we plan for our own retirement...We are self sufficient.  that's the way I like it!


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## ZzzzDad (20 September 2008)

websman said:


> Sounds like you paid too much for your house.  The reason you paid to much for your house is that you fell into the same trap as a lot of other folks did.  You bought into the housing bubble.  Home prices increased because of greed and speculation.  I'm personally glad to see home prices falling...Hopefully they will fall further.  Maybe homes will become affordable again.  We don't need any more government regulation.  It may take a while, but the housing crises will take care of itself.
> 
> Too much government involvment leads to socialism, and that's exactly what Obama wants.  America was not founded on Socialism.  Freedom is the was the goal of our forefathers, who wrote the constitution.  Sarah Palin is a great representation of our system and way of life.   We own guns, We pay for our own medical care, we plan for our own retirement...We are self sufficient.  that's the way I like it!




Websman - I like your way of thinking.  You are right.

America is not perfect, but there is a reason immigrants (legal and illegal) are flooding into America from all over the world.  We have the best system.  They know that if they work hard, they will succeed.  It is just too bad many of our fellow citizens have gotten lazy, and want government to bail them out if they get into trouble.


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## Nashezz (20 September 2008)

Ho hum.

I am sorry to bust your fantasy but the 'system' of work hard, get rewarded, pays off in most countries, including ours. 

Your 'system' is actually ****e because you have decided that instead of supporting your society you don't invest in it. Things like public transport (at least in California), public health, welfare or education are underfunded while supporting an inexplicable gun culture, executions, little knowledge of the outside world and the false idea that you are living in the greatest country on earth. As such you have many roads in a state of disrepair, numerous homeless people, expensive and sometimes inaccessible healthcare, a high proportion of your people in jail (highest in western countries), poor public education and expensive tertiary education. Americans have the biggest per capita use of the worlds energy and resources by far as well as the largest amount of pollution per capita. So basically you ignorant turnips are killing our world and proud about being the best at doing it (while living in a sub-par country that you think is the absolute greatest).

I have tried to explain to you before - immigrants are not going to the US because it is such a great place or a great system. They are going there because

1. Strong US dollar - sending back the dollar to their 'home' country and families converts to a lot of foreign cash
2. Large economy - this means that there are many jobs available and Americans don't want to do a lot of them which means even more jobs.

It is that simple. You can believe it is something about the great qualities there but I worked with many immigrants over there when I was there and it just isn't true. Sure your education system may look more appealing to the Mexican one (I have no idea about that), but that hardly means it is world class.

As far as paying too much for my house - well no - we actually paid $150,000 for it and rode the bubble up - my point was that there would not have been a bubble if proper regulation was implemented. I think everyone understand this in hindsight, why are you arguing the point?


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## 2020hindsight (20 September 2008)

websman said:


> 1. I'm personally glad to see home prices falling...Hopefully they will fall further.
> 
> 2. We don't need any more government regulation.
> 
> 3. Too much government involvment leads to socialism, .....  America was not founded on Socialism.



1. mmm - as suddenly as it's happening?  - mmm.  Unemployment numbers going up like a homesick angel?   etc 

2. you're kidding surely.  Why do you think you're in this mess? (and us as well) 

3. so what do you call govt bailouts if it isn't underhanded socialism - albeit skewed to the rich end of town.


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## wayneL (20 September 2008)

Nashezz said:


> Ho hum.
> 
> I am sorry to bust your fantasy but the 'system' of work hard, get rewarded, pays off in most countries, including ours.
> 
> ...



Exactly,

The very same thing can be said about western European countries being the greatest. We have immigrants flooding in the UK as well. But what I like about here is that there is no delusion about the UK being the greatest. Brits are realistic about this place. If you like it, fine, stay. If you don't, fine, we don't blame you. Now **** off!!  It's a great attitude.


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## Glen48 (20 September 2008)

I see the bloke who designed Palin's Glasses is now rushed of his feet with orders
She also tried to sack her sister policeman husband during their divorce his Chief refused to sack him so she sacked the Police chef.
Also wanted the Library to ban some books Like _how to Woo_ which I know to be a Chinese telephone book the Librarian refused so she got teh bullet as well.
She is also under investigation over a number of things and was quick to ask the Feds for money.
Not the poor thing is seen as  Miss Sire. to be worshiped. 
Just what USA need to help the Muslims hate them all the more


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## BSD (20 September 2008)

websman said:


> Too much government involvment leads to socialism, and that's exactly what Obama wants.  America was not founded on Socialism.  Freedom is the was the goal of our forefathers, who wrote the constitution.  Sarah Palin is a great representation of our system and way of life.   We own guns, We pay for our own medical care, we plan for our own retirement...We are self sufficient.  that's the way I like it!




Self sufficient!

Your now failed system is being bailed-out with a TRILLION dollar government intervention. 

The idiocy from all involved is going to cost your country for decades. 

Sarah Palin, George W Bush, creationism, NINJA loans, War on Terror...

How sad a great country has been reduced to this.


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## Doris (21 September 2008)

*Todd Palin thumbs his nose at the law*



> Todd Palin says he will refuse to obey a subpoena from an independent investigator for the state legislature in Alaska. The reason: Palin claims he's too busy out on the campaign trail. What a limp excuse.
> 
> Investigators want to know how much involvement Todd Palin had in pressuring for the firing of either the commissioner or, before that, the trooper.
> 
> ...



http://voices.kansascity.com/node/2097

There are some well researched comments on the blog that follows this item.


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## jeflin (21 September 2008)

BSD said:


> Self sufficient!
> 
> Your now failed system is being bailed-out with a TRILLION dollar government intervention.
> 
> ...




I guess that is where Sarah Palin comes in. At least the media can focus on her pregnancy, hoop earrings, spectacles, vindictive sacking, hacked emails, etc.

It makes people forget that all of a sudden they are slapped with a 1 trillion dollar debt which makes a mockery of their hard work and lifelong savings.


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## Garpal Gumnut (21 September 2008)

I reckon it is quite reasonable for The First Dude to say he is unavailable for questioning because he is too busy on the campaign trail.

What is wrong with that.

Get real,  women and men of the left.

gg


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## Doris (21 September 2008)

*Palin linked electoral success to prayer of Kenyan witchhunter*





> *The pastor whose prayer Sarah Palin says helped her to become governor of Alaska founded his ministry with a witchhunt against a Kenyan woman who he accused of causing car accidents through demonic spells*.
> 
> Her alleged involvement in fortune-telling and the fact that she lived near the site of a number of fatal car accidents led Pastor Muthee to publicly declare her a witch responsible for the town’s ills, and order her to offer her up her soul for salvation or leave Kiambu.
> 
> ...



http://timesonline.typepad.com/uselections/2008/09/palin-linked-el.html


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## Calliope (21 September 2008)

Beware of *witchhunts* Doris. I am beginning to think you may be under the *demonic spell* of Bazza Obama.


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## ZzzzDad (21 September 2008)

The Barracuda:





Sarahmania!!!

(My daughter loves this video!!)


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## rederob (21 September 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I reckon it is quite reasonable for The First Dude to say he is unavailable for questioning because he is too busy on the campaign trail.
> What is wrong with that.
> Get real,  women and men of the left.
> gg



I would have thought you might support people obeying the law, as a subpoena has the force of law behind it.
Instead, you think it's "reasonable" to disobey a lawful order, as politics comes first!
I trust others in their "right" mind think a little more sensibly.


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## IFocus (21 September 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I reckon it is quite reasonable for The First Dude to say he is unavailable for questioning because he is too busy on the campaign trail.
> 
> What is wrong with that.
> 
> ...




Its getting hard to get left of any thing when your heroes GG are nationalizing the banks


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## 2020hindsight (21 September 2008)

Palin: Okay, I Didn't Quite Say "Thanks, But No Thanks"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvqH6GnE3k0&NR=1


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## Doris (21 September 2008)

*Alaskans angered that Palin is off-limits*

The McCain machine is taking all queries/calls requesting information about Palin's record as governor.  
The Republicans initiated the Troopergate enquiry but now stifle it.  Why? 
Does this sound like a McPalin government might be transparent? 

It seems if Obama wins on Nov 4, then Palin won't have a job to return to!



> In Wasilla, *a dozen or more campaign researchers and lawyers have begun overseeing the release of any information about Palin's years as mayor*. McCain staffers have even been assigned to answer calls for Palin's family members, who have been instructed not to talk.
> 
> "Why did the McCain campaign take over the governor's office?" the Anchorage Daily News demanded in an editorial Saturday. "Is it too much to ask that Alaska's governor speak for herself, directly to Alaskans, about her actions as Alaska's governor?"
> 
> ...




http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-troopergate21-2008sep21,0,2158301.story


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## ZzzzDad (22 September 2008)

> Palin's spokespeople have accused the Democratic chair of the state Senate Judiciary Committee, Hollis French, and others of turning the probe into a partisan attack. In a media interview earlier this month, French warned that the committee's final report might turn into "an October surprise" for the McCain campaign.




The above paragraph says it all.  The democrats, seeking their 15 minutes of fame that came about because of the VP pick, have turned this into a political witch hunt.  French is on Obama's Alaska campaign commitee, and should step aside.

Besides that, Moneghan himself - the guy that was fired - said that he was never told to fire the trooper.  The emails that Gov. Palin released proved that Moneghan was fired for other reasons.  No one disputes that Palin has the right to fire a political appointee.

There is nothing there.  Political appointees are subject to firing at the will of the Governor - for reason or NO REASON.

Palin has made enemies of the good old boys network in Alaska - Republican AND Democrat - and they are trying to exact their revenge.

But it will come to nothing.  Palin will become Vice President.  And all these officials in Alaska that are causing problems will be voted out in the next elections.  The people of Alaska - by 80% are behind Palin.  They won't forget this.


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## ZzzzDad (22 September 2008)

*FBI serves search warrant against UT student in Palin case*

The FBI is stepping up its investigation into the hacking of personal e-mail of Vice Presidential candidate Sarah Palin by a University of Tennessee student.

A person who identified himself as a witness tells WBIR-Knoxville that agents with the FBI served a federal search warrant at the Fort Sanders residence of David Kernell early Sunday morning.

David Kernell is the son of Mike Kernell, a Democratic state representative from Memphis.

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080921/NEWS0206/80921009

*If this had happened to Obama, the news media would be in a feeding frenzy - it would be front page news in every newspaper in America.  But, since a Democrat hacked Palin's email account, the media could care less.  See if you can find this story on any front page in America, or on ANY newscast.*


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## ZzzzDad (22 September 2008)

SarahMania continues!!!


*Palin draws crowd of 60,000 in The Villages*

http://news-press.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080921/NEWS0107/80921022

THE VILLAGES -- Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin told wildly cheering, flag-waving, chanting supporters that John McCain is "the only great man in this race" and promised Sunday he will fix the nation's economy if voters give the GOP four more years in the White House.

"He won't say this, so I'll say it for him," the Alaska governor said in an almost confidential tone at the close of her first Florida stump speech. "There is only one man in this election who has ever really fought for you. John McCain wore the uniform of his country for 22 years -- talk about tough."

The Villages, a vast, upscale planned community north of Orlando, has about 70,000 mostly adult residents -- many of them military retirees -- who vote reliably Republican in statewide races. Tens of thousands inched along roads into the picturesque town square of the complex, where they stood in sweltering heat for about four hours as local GOP officials and a country band revved up the crowd.

"Sa-Rah! Sa-Rah!" they chanted at every mention of her name, applauding loudly and waiving tiny American flags that were distributed -- along with free water bottles -- by local volunteers. The fire chief estimated the crowd at 60,000.

Admiring throngs mobbed the Palin family's arrival and departure, snapping souvenir pictures. Autograph seekers thrust campaign signs, caps with the McCain-Palin logo and copies of magazines with her face on their covers, and the Palins responded warmly.


----------



## Doris (22 September 2008)

*Exclusive: New Doubts Over Palin's Troopergate Claims*
Internal Government Document Contradicts Sarah Palin, Campaign



> Fighting back against allegations she may have fired her then-Public Safety Commissioner, Walt Monegan, *for refusing to go along with a personal vendetta*, Palin on Monday argued in a legal filing that she fired Monegan because he had a "*rogue mentality*" and was *bucking her administration's directives*.
> 
> "The last straw," her lawyer argued, came when he planned a trip to Washington, D.C., to seek federal funds for an *aggressive anti-sexual-violence program*. The project, expected to cost from $10 million to $20 million a year for five years, would have been the first of its kind in Alaska, which *leads the nation in reported forcible rape*.
> 
> ...



http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5844710&page=1


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## Knobby22 (22 September 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> The Barracuda:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





I have a guy in my office who grew up in communist China whom he hates.
When he saw this video he was aghast and said "but that's propaganda like in China, they are using brain washing techniques".

I said that's America for you.


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## ZzzzDad (22 September 2008)

Knobby22 said:


> I have a guy in my office who grew up in communist China whom he hates.
> When he saw this video he said "but that's propaganda like in China, they are using brain washing techniques".
> 
> I said that's America for you.




A couple of teenaged girls made that video up.

Geesh!!

You've got to be kidding, right?  It is called free speech, something not allowed in China, but available in America everyday.  The government didn't put this out, a couple of teeenagers did.

If that is like communist propaganda, what accounts for the Obama craze?


----------



## Doris (22 September 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> A couple of teenaged girls made that video up.
> 
> Geesh!!




Sounds like propaganda...


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## Knobby22 (22 September 2008)

Propaganda is a concerted set of messages aimed at influencing the opinions or behaviors of large numbers of people. As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda in its most basic sense presents information in order to influence its audience. Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or gives loaded messages in order to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the cognitive narrative of the subject in the target audience to further a political agenda.

Propaganda is the deliberate, systematic attempt to shape perceptions, manipulate cognitions, and direct behavior to achieve a response that furthers the desired intent of the propagandist.

””Garth S. Jowett and Victoria O'Donnell, Propaganda and Persuasion


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## ZzzzDad (22 September 2008)

Knobby22 said:


> Propaganda is a concerted set of messages aimed at influencing the opinions or behaviors of large numbers of people. As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda in its most basic sense presents information in order to influence its audience. Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or gives loaded messages in order to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the cognitive narrative of the subject in the target audience to further a political agenda.
> 
> Propaganda is the deliberate, systematic attempt to shape perceptions, manipulate cognitions, and direct behavior to achieve a response that furthers the desired intent of the propagandist.
> 
> —Garth S. Jowett and Victoria O'Donnell, Propaganda and Persuasion






Sounds like the description of every speech Obama has given, and the MSM slavish devotion to the Messiah (Obama) to me.  Now THAT'S propaganda.

The little video is a couple of teenaged girls making a video, putting it on youtube, and having fun with it.  Why do you hate free speech my a couple of teenaged girls?  They have no power - but are simply trying to promote "girl power".

The Greek temple speech of Obama - PROPAGANDA
The little youtube video put out by a couple of girls - NOT


----------



## Knobby22 (22 September 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> Sounds like the description of every speech Obama has given, and the MSM slavish devotion to the Messiah (Obama) to me.  Now THAT'S propaganda.
> 
> The little video is a couple of teenaged girls making a video, putting it on youtube, and having fun with it.  Why do you hate free speech my a couple of teenaged girls?  They have no power - but are simply trying to promote "girl power".




The video is very cleverly done and I think it would have taken a team of people to do it. Not innocent teenage girls.

Watch it again carefully, look how the pictures are ordered, look at how they try to get emotional response, look how it starts innocently then slowly changes.


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## ZzzzDad (22 September 2008)

Knobby22 said:


> The video is very cleverly done and I think it would have taken a team of people to do it. Not innocent teenage girls.
> 
> Watch it again carefully, look how the pictures are ordered, look at how they try to get emotional response, look how it starts innocently then slowly changes.




You'd be surprised how smart some of these teens are nowadays, especially with this kind of stuff.  Anyway, pretty harmless, aimed at people that can't even vote anyway - teen and preteen girls.


----------



## Knobby22 (22 September 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> You'd be surprised how smart some of these teens are nowadays, especially with this kind of stuff.  Anyway, pretty harmless, aimed at people that can't even vote anyway - teen and preteen girls.




Fair enough. Kids are getting very clever.


----------



## 2020hindsight (22 September 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> You'd be surprised how smart some of these teens are nowadays, especially with this kind of stuff.  Anyway, pretty harmless, aimed at people that can't even vote anyway - teen and preteen girls.



oh man - that is blatantly an adult-orchestrated manipulation of kids, lol.

kid yourself if you wish zzd,  lol


----------



## Aboundz (22 September 2008)

Irrelevant and hopefully objective observation:

I just read this whole thread. Prior to that I didn't give a rat's who wins, and really still don't. _Some_ rational debate, both sides. BUT, fairly intrigued at the level of arrogance and all righteousness by the Republican supporters (in this thread, I don't watch much TV). The mongrel in me would get a buzz out of the Dems winning just to see some arrogance go legs-up. Sorry, but just can't get into getting uptight about elections in another country.


----------



## Doris (23 September 2008)

Aboundz said:


> Irrelevant and hopefully objective observation:
> 
> I just read this whole thread. Prior to that I didn't give a rat's who wins, and really still don't. _Some_ rational debate, both sides. BUT, fairly intrigued at the level of arrogance and all righteousness by the Republican supporters (in this thread, I don't watch much TV). The mongrel in me would get a buzz out of the Dems winning just to see some arrogance go legs-up. Sorry, but just can't get into getting uptight about elections in another country.




Aboundz - - This is an example of why *the government* of *this* 'other country' affects us:



> Concern over the Wall Street bailout and frenzied last-minute trading in the oil market sent crude prices soaring by more than $16 a barrel, the biggest one-day jump ever.
> 
> The late-day spike, which shoved oil up 16% to $120.92 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange, offered an illustration of Wall Street's hard-to-predict moves amid broad market turmoil. The nation's futures-market regulator announced it would probe the move for evidence of illegal manipulation. The move confounded experts and *bore the markings of a run for the exits by a major player.*


----------



## ZzzzDad (23 September 2008)

> Concern over the Wall Street bailout and frenzied last-minute trading in the oil market sent crude prices soaring by more than $16 a barrel, the biggest one-day jump ever.
> 
> The late-day spike, which shoved oil up 16% to $120.92 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange, offered an illustration of Wall Street's hard-to-predict moves amid broad market turmoil. The nation's futures-market regulator announced it would probe the move for evidence of illegal manipulation. The move confounded experts and bore the markings of a run for the exits by a major player.




I smell George Soros - the evil manipulator of currency and commodity markets.  Could be wrong, but even today, the guy is raking in billions every year.


----------



## Doris (23 September 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> I smell George Soros - the evil manipulator of currency and commodity markets.  Could be wrong, but even today, the guy is raking in billions every year.




Wow!

This Aussie hick had never heard of *George Soros* so of course... had to google!

*What an amazingly incredible man!*

Has he also helped the US or used it as a tool to help Europe, Russia and Africa from his youthful experiences?

No doubt Bill Gates and Warren Buffet have been inspired by this man!

He'd obviously be casting his vote for Obama!


*Bio*
George Soros

*Founder and Chairman*

A global financier and philanthropist, George Soros is the founder and chairman of a network of foundations that promote, among other things, the creation of *open, democratic societies based upon the rule of law, market economies, transparent and accountable governance, freedom of the press, and respect for human rights*.

Soros was born in Budapest, Hungary, in 1930. His father was taken prisoner during World War I and eventually fled from captivity in Russia to reunite with his family in Budapest. *Soros was thirteen years old when Hitler's Wehrmacht seized Hungary and began deporting the country's Jews to extermination camps*. In 1946, as the Soviet Union was taking control of the country, Soros attended a conference in the West and defected. He emigrated in 1947 to England, supported himself by working as a railroad porter and a restaurant waiter, graduated in 1952 from the London School of Economics, and obtained an entry-level position with an investment bank.

*Philosophy*

At the London School of Economics, Soros became acquainted with the work of the philosopher Karl Popper, whose ideas on open society had a profound influence on his intellectual development. Specifically, Soros's experience of Nazi and Communist rule attracted him to Popper’s critique of totalitarianism, The Open Society and Its Enemies, in which he maintained that *societies can only flourish when they allow democratic governance, freedom of expression, a diverse range of opinion, and respect for individual rights.*

*Finance*

In 1956, Soros immigrated to the United States. He worked as a trader and analyst until 1963. During this period, *Soros adapted Popper's ideas to develop his own "theory of reflexivity," a set of ideas that seeks to explain the relationship between thought and reality, which he used to predict, among other things, the emergence of financial bubbles*. Soros began to apply his theory to investing and concluded that he had more talent for trading than for philosophy. In 1967 he helped establish an offshore investment fund; and in 1973 he set up a private investment firm that eventually evolved into the Quantum Fund, one of the first hedge funds, through which he accumulated a vast fortune.

*Philanthropy*

As his financial success mounted, Soros applied his wealth to help foster the development of open societies. *In 1979, Soros provided funds to help black students attend the University of Cape Town in apartheid South Africa*. Soon he created a foundation in Hungary to support culture and education and the country’s transition to democracy. (One of his projects imported photocopy machines that allowed citizens and activists in Hungary to spread information and publish censored materials.) Soros also *distributed funds to the underground Solidarity movement in Poland*, Charter 77 in Czechoslovakia, and the Soviet physicist-dissident Andrei Sakharov. In 1982, Soros named his philanthropic organization the Open Society Fund, in honor of Karl Popper, and began granting scholarships to students from Eastern Europe. Bolstered by the success of these projects, Soros created more programs to assist the free flow of information. He supported educational radio programs in Mongolia and later contributed *$100 million to provide Internet access to every regional university in Russia*.

The magnitude and geographical scope of his philanthropic commitments, coupled with the core principle of fostering open societies, has allowed Soros to *transcend the limitations of many national governments and international institutions*. During the 1980s, Soros financed a trip by young economists at a reform-minded think tank in China to a business university in Budapest; *he also established a grantmaking foundation in China to foster civil society and transparency*. In 1991, he helped found the Central European University, a graduate institution in Budapest that focuses on social and political development. *Soros spent $50 million to help the citizens of Sarajevo endure the city’s siege during the Bosnian war*, funding among other projects a water-filtration plant that allowed residents to avoid having to draw water from distribution points targeted by Serb snipers. Most recently, *he has provided $50 million to support the Millennium Villages initiative, which seeks to lift some of the least developed villages in Africa out of poverty*.

In 1993, Soros created the Open Society Institute, which supports the Soros foundations working to develop democratic institutions throughout Central and Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union. His network of philanthropic organizations dedicated to building open societies has expanded to include more than 60 countries in the Middle East, Central Asia, Africa, and Latin America. Despite the breadth of his endeavors, Soros is personally involved in planning and implementing many of the foundation network’s projects. His visionary efforts have produced a remarkable record of successful philanthropy, *including efforts to free developmentally challenged people from life-long confinement in state institutions*, to provide palliative care to the dying, *to win release for prisoners held without legal grounds in penitentiaries in Nigeria*, to halt the spread of tuberculosis and HIV/AIDS, *to create debate societies*, to promote freedom of the press, and *to help resource-rich countries establish mechanisms to manage their revenues in a way that will promote economic growth and good governance rather than poverty and instability*.


*In 2003, Soros said that removing President George W. Bush from office was one of his main priorities. 

During the 2004 campaign, he donated significant funds to various groups dedicated to defeating the president.
*


*Publications*

In 2006, Mr. Soros published The Age of Fallibility: Consequences of The War on Terror (Public Affairs, 2006).  His previous books include The Bubble of American Supremacy (2005); George Soros on Globalization (2002); Open Society: Reforming Global Capitalism (2000); The Crisis of Global Capitalism: Open Society Endangered (1998); Soros on Soros: Staying Ahead of the Curve (1995); Underwriting Democracy (1991); Opening the Soviet System (1990); and The Alchemy of Finance (1987). His essays on politics, society, and economics appear frequently in major periodicals around the world.

Soros has received honorary degrees from the New School for Social Research, Oxford University, the Budapest University of Economics, and Yale University. In 1995, the University of Bologna awarded Soros its highest honor, the Laurea Honoris Causa, in recognition of his efforts to promote open societies throughout the world.

*George Soros's political activities are wholly separate from the Open Society Institute. *



> *OSI Statement on George Soros’s Political Activities*
> 
> George Soros’s private political activities are wholly separate from the Open Society Institute. OSI is a nonpartisan, nonpolitical entity—in accordance with U.S. laws for tax-exempt organizations.
> 
> ...



http://www.soros.org/about/bios/a_soros/political

For more information about George Soros's activities that are separate from the Open Society Institute, visit www.georgesoros.com.


----------



## Green08 (23 September 2008)

*"McCain's camp worries Palin may struggle without tight debate rule*s
Staff, Vancouver Sun
Published: Sunday, September 21, 2008

It's the U.S. election debate that most interested observers have been eagerly waiting for - Democratic vice-presidential nominee Joe Biden against Republican VP choice Sarah Palin - but don't expect them to get into many verbal exchanges.

According to a report in the New York Times Saturday, the campaign of Senator John McCain has fought for tight rules on how the VP debate will run, limiting the chances of anything other than short answers, and ensuring the debaters will not speak directly to one another for anything more than short periods.

This in contrast to the Presidential debates, in which Senators Barack Obama and McCain will be allowed to address each other, argue, and present rebuttals for five minutes per question, after a two-minute answer period.

The reasoning behind the tighter VP rules? According to The Times, McCain advisers were concerned that letting Palin, a relative rookie when it comes to debating national and international policy, go toe-to-toe with Biden, would leave her at a disadvantage."

Do they have to hold her hand for every thing! What happens if they get in and McCain drops dead the next day?  Her inexperience is a joke in the utter face of the worlds biggest Financial Crisis and you want this woman to be prepped for every thing.

She is in NY at the UN headquarters to meet 9 major representatives on a short 30 hour crash course on forgein policy before the debate with Biden on Friday.  There should be no concessions for her.  Show who she really is on an open platform everyone ones to see the real thing not orchestrated script.


----------



## 2020hindsight (23 September 2008)

Green08 said:


> ..... There should be no concessions for her.  Show who she really is on an open platform everyone ones/wants to see the real thing not orchestrated script.



http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=7045e68a-6627-45cc-bad1-72a017869fc4

green thanks
:iagree:  

Gee but these debates couldn't have happened at a more crucial point in history if they'd tried lol.

PS Some comments on that Canadian website ....


> Another sure sign Palin is not and cannot serve as v.p. She is way out of her league.There shouldn't be a debate under those rules - whats the point? it will be only weak and short statements as with Gibson's interview.






> What does this mean? Palin can't look Putin in the eyes and not blink? She needs rules to protect her?


----------



## 2020hindsight (23 September 2008)

green, interesting isn't it .  
McCain camp claim that "Palin is no more inexperienced than Obama is" (paraphrased). In fact we keep hearing how she is MORE experienced.... 

Yet, lol, they want Palin to be treated with kid gloves against Biden, whereas the Presidential debates are "bare knuckles" .. 



> This in contrast to the Presidential debates, in which Senators Barack Obama and McCain will be allowed to address each other, argue, and present rebuttals for five minutes per question, after a two-minute answer period.
> 
> The reasoning behind the tighter VP rules? According to The Times, McCain advisers were concerned that letting Palin, a relative rookie when it comes to debating national and international policy, go toe-to-toe with Biden, would leave her at a disadvantage


----------



## Julia (23 September 2008)

Completely agree with above from Green and 2020.
When is the VP debate?


----------



## wayneL (23 September 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> green, interesting isn't it .
> McCain camp claim that "Palin is no more inexperienced than Obama is" (paraphrased). In fact we keep hearing how she is MORE experienced....




Experience:

Some people have 20 years experience, some have 1 years experience and repeat it 20 times.


----------



## Doris (23 September 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> A couple of teenaged girls made that video up.
> 
> Geesh!!
> 
> ...




I suggested this was propaganda but I was overseas and didn't have time to watch more than a few moments of it.  
Now I have... 

*No way it's a teenager production!*

No way teenagers could link the beats with the photo changes so professionally!

But I'd say tweenies might like it... the 5-10yo Barbie and Bratz fans!

Was it designed after Maccas (McD) ads? ... to get the kids to nag their parents for it? 

I decided to check who uploaded it:  *Meghan McCain!*



> D0VVNT0VVN
> Joined: April 05, 2007
> Last Sign In: 1 hour ago
> Videos Watched: 4,492
> ...





*If you click on 'more info' on its youtube page you get:*

1. Her web blog page: http://minx.cc/?post=272151

*The page banner suggests a potential Unsub for Criminal Minds!*
(Read it for yourself...  )

2. Her father's web page: http://www.johnmccain.com/

3. Her photo page:  http://www.mccainblogette.com/

And check out:  http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/17/mccain-daughters-book-becomes-a-best-seller/

*How gullible some people are!*
...made by teenagers!


----------



## Doris (24 September 2008)

Julia said:


> Completely agree with above from Green and 2020.
> When is the VP debate?




Thursday next week... US time.  

30 hours chatting with world leaders at the UN this week still gives her time for more GOP coaching.

This is #980 on the Barack thread:



Doris said:


> The debates start in a week and will be interesting to say the least.
> McCain wanted weekly town hall squables but they will consist of:
> 
> 1. First Presidential Debate: – Date: *September 26*– Site: University of Mississippi –
> ...


----------



## ZzzzDad (24 September 2008)

Nice try on that George Soros biography Doris - but you left out QUITE a few things about this sinister man:


*George Soros and the Alchemy of 'Regime Change'*

by Kyle-Anne Shiver

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/02/george_soros_and_the_alchemy_o.html
What does a very aged multi-billionaire do after he spends $25 million dollars to force a presidential election his way, and still falls flat on his face?  Well, of course, he tries and tries again.


When George Soros failed to obtain the election of his candidate, John Kerry, in 2004, he brooded for a while, even said he might get out of politics altogether, but he just couldn't stop himself.  He has stated publicly that he wishes to burst the "bubble of American supremacy," because he says our preeminence in the world is a detriment to global "equilibrium."  So far, he has failed, but he keeps on trying.

And Mr. Soros has made no secret either of the fact that he sees the shortest way to effect political shake-ups, what he terms "regime changes," is through very difficult economic conditions.

*Soros made his first billion in 1992 by shorting the British pound with leveraged billions in financial bets, and became known as the man who broke the Bank of England.  He broke it on the backs of hard-working British citizens who immediately saw their homes severely devalued and their life savings cut drastically in comparative worth almost overnight.  


When the Asian Financial Crisis of 1997 threatened to spread globally, George Soros was right in the thick of it.  Soros was accused by the Malaysian Prime Minister of causing the collapse with his monetary machinations, and he was branded in Thailand as an "economic war criminal" who "sucks the blood from the people."  Right in the middle of this crisis, Soros dashed off his book, The Crisis of Global Capitalism, which demanded a "third way" toward economic stability. *

Coincidentally, or not, during the height of the fears of worldwide recession, then President Clinton told the New York Times that he was proposing a "third way" between capitalism and socialism.  Unfortunately for Soros, U.S. markets rebounded quickly, his predicted catastrophe was forestalled, and his brave new global economic plans receded for a bit.


This may have been to Soros' own good, though, because he was by 1998 up to his neck in the collapse of the Russian ruble, and buying up valuable East European resources at fire-sale prices.  


And why not?


He had already been widely proclaiming that it was his own machinations that brought down the Soviet Empire.  When asked about his sphere of influence in the Soviets' demise for a New Republic interview in 1994, Mr. Soros humbly replied that the author ought to report that "the former Soviet 
Empire is now called the *Soros Empire."*

When our House Banking Committee investigated the Russia-gate scandal in 1999, trying to determine just how $100 billion had been diverted out of Russia, forcing the collapse of its currency and the default of its enormous loans from the International Monetary Fund, Soros was even called to testify.  He denied involvement of course, but finally admitted that he had used insider access in a deal that was barred to foreign investors to acquire a huge chunk of Sidanko Oil.  


The Russia scandal was labeled by Rep. Jim Leach, then head of the House Banking Committee to be one of the greatest social roberies in human history.


*Then, George Soros did some more shady economic fooling around in France.  And he actually got caught and charged with illegal insider trading in his attempt to takeover the Societe Generale bank.  He was convicted and the conviction was upheld in 2 separate appeals, the last in June of 2006.  They let him off, however, with a piddling $2.9 million fine.*

The article continues below
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/02/george_soros_and_the_alchemy_o.html

This guy is one of the most evil manipulators of all time.  Quite a despicable character.


----------



## noirua (24 September 2008)

Barracuda:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barracuda
Sarah Palin:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (24 September 2008)

Bill Clinton has recently endorsed Sarah Palin as being a worthy candidate and someone he could understand ordinary folk voting for.

This must have been a sock in the eye to the left wing media , it hasn't been reported all that much.

She will Thermopylae poor Biden in the debate. 

I almost feel sorry for him.

gg


----------



## 2020hindsight (24 September 2008)

Doris said:


> I decided to check who uploaded it:  Meghan McCain!
> How gullible some people are!
> ...made by teenagers!



doris, I was wondering what a teacher would make of that claim lol 

here's your teenager zzd  :-


----------



## ZzzzDad (24 September 2008)

Doris said:


> I suggested this was propaganda but I was overseas and didn't have time to watch more than a few moments of it.
> Now I have...
> 
> *No way it's a teenager production!*
> ...




Doris - You say Meghan downloaded it, but do you realize people send videos to both campaigns?  Where do you get the info that Meghan made the video?  I'll be happy to admit if proved wrong, but unless I'm missing something, I haven't seen the proof yet.  I'm willing to "see" it if proven wrong.


----------



## Buddy (24 September 2008)

Doris,
Soros might be "an interesting man" but sleepyDad is correct. To paraphrase him..... Soros is a turd!
If Soros is on Palin's side, we (everyone else) should be on the other side, whoever it is.


----------



## Doris (24 September 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> "I decided to check who uploaded it: Meghan McCain!
> How gullible some people are!
> ...made by teenagers!"
> 
> ...




I'm not a music teacher but maybe someone here is and can assess the criteria of achievement?  
A teenage prodigy? :headshake

... a coincidence how Meghan's best seller is aimed at the Tweenies' market too! 

She reminds me of Paris... making her own money from her heritage fame.


----------



## 2020hindsight (24 September 2008)

"the potential october surprise" - probably thwarted (by witnesses refusing to be subpoenaed) , if not altogether buried

 Rachel Maddow on Sarah Palin & Troopergate Part 3

http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...h+Palin+&+Troopergate+Part+&search_type=&aq=f

changing topic... "protectionism of Palin has to end" ...
"and you (McCain camp) claim she is ready to be one heart beat away from the presidency". 
 Campbell Brown Rips McCain Camp's Sexist Treatment Of Palin


----------



## ZzzzDad (25 September 2008)

Buddy said:


> Doris,
> Soros might be "an interesting man" but sleepyDad is correct. To paraphrase him..... Soros is a turd!
> If Soros is on Palin's side, we (everyone else) should be on the other side, whoever it is.




Buddy, Soros is a BIG Democrat - He is heavily, heavily, backing Obama.  I think you misread his political affiliations.  He has contributed tens of millions of dollars for the Democrats.  He is the man behind moveon.org.  Support Palin?  No way - totally the opposite - He wants to destroy Palin, McCain, and anybody that gets in his maniacal way.


----------



## Doris (25 September 2008)

WSJ/NBC Poll: *Voters Doubt Palin’s Qualifications to Be President*



> The latest Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll shows nearly half of voters harbor doubts that Republican vice presidential hopeful Sarah Palin is qualified to be president.
> 
> Asked, “Do you feel that Sarah Palin is qualified to be president if the need arises, or is she not qualified to be president?” *49%* of all respondents *said she is not qualified* while 40% said she is.
> 
> *Almost two-thirds of respondents, 64%, said Biden, is qualified*; just 21% said he is not.





Some blogs on this article:



> # If Caribou Barbie can’t even face a press conference (how many weeks has it been?) how can she be ready to be the Commander in Chief? Her track record is full of the abuse of power, and her speaking style looks like she’s running for student council. Can you say “Not. Ready.”
> 
> # Sarah Palin has extreme right wing views that are the right of even Bush/Cheney (abortion, climate change). She lacks experience and has no knowledge whatsoever about foreign affairs but is nevertheless decisive (witness her views on Iran and Russia and compare to those of someone intelligent like Jim Baker/Colin Powell). She has run a secretive administration. She is the scariest thing about this election. The question posed is whether she is qualified to be president. *I guess if you think bush was qualified then the answer is yes. But god help us if it ever happens*.
> 
> ...




http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/...-doubt-palins-qualifications-to-be-president/


----------



## Doris (25 September 2008)

*Trooper probe now 'confidential,' Palin aides say*

Hmmm... Seems to be covered up until after the election.  Will voters care?  



> Republican campaign officials indicated Tuesday they are done answering questions about an investigation into Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's firing of her public safety commissioner, *citing a request by a state investigator*.
> 
> *The Legislature's inquiry is scheduled to be completed by October 10*. The state senator managing the probe, Anchorage Democrat Hollis French, has been under fire since a September 2 interview with ABC News in which he said the inquiry could lead to an "October surprise" for the GOP ticket.
> 
> ...




http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/24/palin.investigation/index.html?eref=rss_topstories


----------



## Buddy (25 September 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> Buddy, Soros is a BIG Democrat - He is heavily, heavily, backing Obama.  I think you misread his political affiliations.  He has contributed tens of millions of dollars for the Democrats.  He is the man behind moveon.org.  Support Palin?  No way - totally the opposite - He wants to destroy Palin, McCain, and anybody that gets in his maniacal way.




Is that right? I didn't know that. Dont really follow the detail of USA politics. 
Nevertheless, Soros is still a turd! Can we agree on that?


----------



## ZzzzDad (25 September 2008)

Buddy said:


> Is that right? I didn't know that. Dont really follow the detail of USA politics.
> Nevertheless, Soros is still a turd! Can we agree on that?




Yes, he is one of earth's truly despicable characters.  Evil times infinity.


----------



## awg (25 September 2008)

i feel so cheap

can't help myself

damm that woman just oozes sex appeal, in a restrained way

i strongly suspect that the people who selected the candidate were so very much aware of this

the lowest common denominator, the male beast

she has other admirable characteristics, that would appeal to the female voter.

I personally hope the Democrats get elected, although I doubt it will make that much difference who it is.

i haven't been paying much attention to this, so i just checked a few websites to see if it was just me, but sure enough there was a proliferation of them, using a particular acronym, sometimes applied to attractive mothers.

no offence intended


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (25 September 2008)

awg said:


> i feel so cheap
> 
> can't help myself
> 
> ...




Unsure of the acronym but I'd prefer to have a mother of 5 with no Washington experience being VP in the US than a has been hack like Biden.

The entrenched positions of the new rich with their passe left wing nods has brought us to this nadir in the financial markets.

Good hard working capitalists and patriots like McCain and Obama will rescue the west.

gg


----------



## Nashezz (26 September 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> Doris - You say Meghan downloaded it, but do you realize people send videos to both campaigns?  Where do you get the info that Meghan made the video?  I'll be happy to admit if proved wrong, but unless I'm missing something, I haven't seen the proof yet.  I'm willing to "see" it if proven wrong.




Sleepy - since you kept spouting it was teenagers that made the video how about you show the proof, instead of getting others to disprove your claims? Claims which you obviously don't have evidence at hand to make.



Garpal Gumnut said:


> Unsure of the acronym but I'd prefer to have a mother of 5 with no Washington experience being VP in the US than a has been hack like Biden.
> 
> The entrenched positions of the new rich with their passe left wing nods has brought us to this nadir in the financial markets.
> 
> ...




GG, if Palin was a Democrat and Biden a Republican then you would like Biden and dislike Palin for opposite reasons - makes it pretty hard to take notice of any of your 'reasoning'. 

I also bet that you loved GWB before he was elected and wrote on forums everywhere how great he would be for America....


----------



## Doris (26 September 2008)

Before McCain's disparagement in fronting Katie Couric on CBS News last night, Palin was 'done'.

What a bag of shrill wind she is. Painful Palin!

She's your typical pollie gg.  
She's a lot like Joh was in having a rote agenda regardless of the questions asked so she can avoid answering one!

Half her answers for her opinion were: "John McCain says..." or "John McCain and I are discussing..."

"America is waiting to hear what John McCain has to say, not Obama."
Katie asked why she thought Obama had no answers to the financial crisis when the latest polls show most people had more confidence in Obama's ability to handle it. 

She said she's not speaking about the polls, she's speaking about what the majority of people think! 

"*I'll try to find ya some an I'll bring em to ya*," Palin said after an exasperated Katie reiterated her request for specific examples over McCain's 26 years, of his being involved with regulating Wall Street, as he's almost always sided with the less-regulation, not more. 

What a blond she is! 
No wonder the GOP is keeping her away from the media.
Oh how I hope we get to see a VPC debate! :

The looks on Katie's face to Palin's answers were priceless.  As incredulous as Letterman was last night!

Watch here... but grab your 'plane plugs' first:

"We talked about the financial crisis *at length*."  Oh Katie...


----------



## Green08 (26 September 2008)

Doris  what about Palin stumbling over her foregin policy creditials basing it on Russia just across the ocean.  At one point Palin was so confused she said "....you know what i mean, oh I don't know..."


----------



## Doris (26 September 2008)

Green08 said:


> Doris  what about Palin stumbling over her foregin policy creditials basing it on Russia just across the ocean.  At one point Palin was so confused she said "....you know what i mean, oh I don't know..."




Did you watch the Saturday Night Live excerpt I put on   # 169

Tina Fey (brilliant in Baby Mama movie...) did so well telling "Hillary"!  

What the heck.  It's so good:

Ooops... McCain mob have had it removed from youtube?!  "No longer available"!

But here's an edited version that is available:  



The longer versions are baits.  I could not find any footage other than the content of this!  WHY? 
.


----------



## Doris (27 September 2008)

Doris said:


> Before McCain's disparagement in fronting Katie Couric on CBS News last night, Palin was 'done'.
> 
> What a bag of shrill wind she is. Painful Palin!
> 
> ...




*Sarah Palin - still not ready for prime time*

Sarah Palin’s outing with CBS anchor Katie Couric has not been well-received.  And with less than 40 days before Americans head to the voting booth, there’s not much time to get Palin used to dealing with the national press.

It appears that she needs more time, but unfortunately for the McCain campaign, they don’t have the luxury of putting her into an incubator to slowly ramp up to deal with the national press.

The interview with Couric had GOP strategist Rob Stutzman telling The Vote yesterday that *McCain needs to participate in tonight’s debate simply “to bury the Palin CBS interview*!”


Poised and confident is not how she looked with Couric. On Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, Couric asked Palin for an example of where McCain has led the charge for more oversight. Says Couric, “[McCain’s] been in Congress for 26 years. He’s been chairman of the powerful Commerce Committee. And *he has almost always sided with less regulation – not more*.”

Palin: “He’s also known as a maverick though. Taking shots from his own party, and certainly taking shots from the other party.”

Couric: “*I’m just going to ask one more time, not to belabor the point* – specific example in his 26 years of pushing for more regulation.”

Palin: “I’ll try to find you some, and I’ll bring ‘em to ya.”

As those last words fumbled from her mouth, you know she was saying, “Get me out of here.”

What? 

On whether the $700 billion bailout of the U.S. financial sector is a good idea.

    That’s why I say I, like every American I’m speaking with, we’re ill about this position that we have been put in where it is the taxpayers looking to bail out. But ultimately what the bailout does is help those who are concerned about the healthcare reform that is needed to help shore up our economy. Helping the—it’s got to be all about job creation too, shoring up our economy and putting it back on the right track. So health care reform and reducing taxes and reining in spending has got to accompany tax reductions and tax relief for Americans and trade—we’ve got to see trade as opportunity, not as competitive, scary thing, but one in five jobs being created in the trade sector today—we’ve got to look at that as more opportunity.

*If you didn’t quite catch the meaning of the above, don’t bother re-reading it.  It doesn’t get any clearer*.  

U.S. News and World Report columnist Robert Schlesinger called the statement a “talking points machine gone out of control.”

http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2008/09/26/sarah-palin-still-not-ready-for-prime-time/


----------



## wayneL (27 September 2008)

More comment on the Palin disaster:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/tim_shipman/blog/2008/09/26/conservatives_turn_on_sarah_palin

The MILF factor is about all that's left.


----------



## noirua (27 September 2008)

Fair enough on the Palin situation.  At least we know who she is.  Who is Barack Obama's running mate again?


----------



## wayneL (27 September 2008)

noirua said:


> Fair enough on the Palin situation.  At least we know who she is.  Who is Barack Obama's running mate again?




Who cares. It's all just fun and games for us non-Yanks... spectator sport.

The US is screwed anyway.


----------



## Green08 (27 September 2008)

I bet the McCain campaign are putting more rules in place for her debate with Biden.   

Perhaps when they ask her questions someone in front will jump up with a Q card for her, so she is sure of the subject and and yes or no answer.  

Biden's 30 years of hands on experience well known and acknowledged.

Palin's 30 hours of fame - I don't think you can seriously count Bono's interview with her at the UN so lets knock it down to 24 hours. Will amount to nothing on foreign policy.  How many times do you have to mention Russia?

One good thing might be that those in the USA who don't think there is life outside of it may find an atlas (do they have those over there?) and Find Russia and then realise how insignificant they are to the enitre globe.


----------



## refined silver (27 September 2008)

wayneL said:


> Who cares. It's all just fun and games for us non-Yanks... spectator sport.
> 
> The US is screwed anyway.




Exactly. Makes no difference whatsoever.

Even the circus over the $700b. Last week the Fed injected over $1t!! In one week alone! Makes the huha over $700b a bit of a joke. Biggest bank ever went bust yesterday - 9 times bigger than the previous one, media balckout on it all. Who are the counterparties on the Credit Default Swaps for WaMu?? All swept under the carpet by the media.


----------



## websman (27 September 2008)

wayneL said:


> Who cares. It's all just fun and games for us non-Yanks... spectator sport.
> 
> The US is screwed anyway.




Or...Is that what you would like to see....


----------



## Julia (27 September 2008)

Websman, despite some harsh comments from outside of your country (many of which are a bit tongue in cheek), none of us would want to see the US fail, or even fall into a prolonged recession.   

I think a lot of us are dismayed at not just what is happening right now, but at the gradual and exponential erosion of respect for the US over the term of President Bush's watch.   

As a kid, I can remember my parents saying that America was the greatest country on earth, a place of unlimited opportunity for anyone who had the energy to want to get ahead.   (Given the race relations at that time, this may have been rather optimistic on their part.)

But now we seem to be witnessing the results of the worst aspects of capitalism in greed and irresponsibility.

Let's hope whoever becomes the next President can restore some genuine and justified sense of pride to your country.


----------



## wayneL (27 September 2008)

websman said:


> Or...Is that what you would like to see....




Webs, don't leap to delusions mate. It is merely a subjective  observation of fact.

I addition to Julia's comments, the USA has quite obviously maneuvered itself into a rut, economically, militarily and morally.

But as I've mentioned elsewhere on this board, I have great faith that America will innovate itself out of the situation it's in, but it has to realize it's in it first. Many Americans do, and that's encouraging, but many who matter still don't.

This is evident in the current crisis.


----------



## ZzzzDad (28 September 2008)

wayneL said:


> Webs, don't leap to delusions mate. It is merely a subjective  observation of fact.
> 
> I addition to Julia's comments, the USA has quite obviously maneuvered itself into a rut, economically, militarily and morally.
> 
> ...




Unfortunately Wayne, it is Barack Obama that has not learned the lessons of the economic crisis.  He is the one that has proposed over 800 billion dollars in new spending if he gets into office.  Every Democrat special interest group has its hand out, and Barack has promised to grease it.

McCain is not in the Bush mold.  He is a deficit hawk.  He really will veto any bill that overspends.   That was one of Bush's many mistakes, especially in his first term.  He just wanted to get along, so any bill Congress passed, he signed, whether it would bust the budget or not.

Please be careful not to tar McCain with the Bush brush.  He has been Bush's fiercist critic many times.  I actually think that Bush secretly hopes McCain will lose.

McCain is a tough critter - I think the world will be in for a pleasant surprise under a McCain administration.


----------



## wayneL (28 September 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> Unfortunately Wayne, it is Barack Obama that has not learned the lessons of the economic crisis.  He is the one that has proposed over 800 billion dollars in new spending if he gets into office.  Every Democrat special interest group has its hand out, and Barack has promised to grease it.
> 
> McCain is not in the Bush mold.  He is a deficit hawk.  He really will veto any bill that overspends.   That was one of Bush's many mistakes, especially in his first term.  He just wanted to get along, so any bill Congress passed, he signed, whether it would bust the budget or not.
> 
> ...



Well so long as you guys stop bombing countries you don't actually need to bomb.

Unfortunately McCain didn't come across as the diplomatic type in the debate and deficit hawkishness is not the the only thing he is hawkish on. Consequently, perpetual war would seem a certainty.

Living in Europe, that's all I really care about as far as the US is concerned... and to stop ****ing with free markets.


----------



## Doris (28 September 2008)

Now for Thursday 9pm US time to see the VEEP debate!
Is Palin Obama's greatest asset?

*Palin sends the cringe meter off the dial*



> No one will be more relieved than John McCain if a major crisis erupts on Thursday to overshadow the debate between the vice-presidential candidates, Sarah Palin and Joe Biden.
> 
> Alaska's one-term governor is hugely popular with voters, but she is also a liability for the Republican ticket, *as her painful-to-watch interview last week with Katie Couric of CBS News showed*. Her woeful inexperience and the yawning gaps in her knowledge of basic issues reminded voters of McCain's advanced age at 72, and sparked questions about what sort of president she would make. Her performance prompted one right-wing commentator, Kathleen Parker of the 'National Review', to call on her to quit. "*Only Palin can save McCain, her party, and the country she loves*," she wrote. "*She can bow out for personal reasons, perhaps because she wants to spend more time with her newborn*."
> 
> That explains why the McCain campaign did not want his running-mate anywhere near Friday's presidential clash in Oxford, Mississippi. Instead, *Palin watched it on TV in Philadelphia*, while Senator Biden gave countless interviews in the media "spin room" outside the Obama-McCain debate.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...nds-the-cringe-meter-off-the-dial-944774.html


----------



## Doris (28 September 2008)

Biden and Palin will face off Thursday Oct 2 at Washington University in St. Louis, Missouri - 8 pm CDT.

Biden has done nearly 100 interviews since being picked as Obama's VP on August 23.

Palin did her third interview with a national television network last week.



> *The vice presidential debate has a slightly different setup from the presidential debates*.
> 
> The second presidential debate is set up like a town hall meeting:
> - will include *any issues raised by members of that audience and online*.
> ...



http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/27/campaign.wrap/?iref=hpmostpop


The agreed-upon format for the v.p. contenders: 

- *90 seconds* to respond to questions 
- *120 seconds* discussion period of each topic.

So... that is 7 minutes for P debates per question and
... *3.5 minutes* each question for the VP debate!

 Biden has to be succinct - this will show him in a new light!

Maybe because Palin appears to have lost confidence and has had competence only when reading those two McCain campaign-written speeches,* she may just surprise us all in being on the ball... and not introduce every statement with what "McCain and I are ready" or "McCain and I are working on that".  

*







> Her highly-lauded speech to the Republican convention that launched the wave of "Palinmania" that has gripped the party was written by Matthew Scully, who previously crafted the words of President Bush.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...-relies-on-Bush-veterans-for-her-big-day.html

After all, now, with *2 minutes instead of 5 minutes for discussion*, (theoretically one minute each) she should be able to recall the spiel she is learning rote.  She was introduced as a fast, efficient learner after all.


Gwen Ifill will be the moderator.


> "The biggest pressure you have as a journalist ever is to *make sure you get an answer to your question*," said Ifill, whose crowded resume includes The New York Times, The Washington Post and NBC News. "That's what I'm focusing on — how to *ask questions that elicit answers instead of spin*, or in this case to *elicit engagement between the two*."
> 
> People sometimes forget it's a debate, not an inquisition, Ifill said.
> 
> ...



http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iBZRtBDTOeK8QmB-4AwY_BbtecmAD93BEF1G1

Help needed:  I can't find whether the debate will be 90 minutes long.  Anyone know?


----------



## Green08 (28 September 2008)

Palin maybe coming to the realisation that she has bitten off more than she can chew as VP.

As a mother of 5 one a new born wit Down syndrome she would be stretched to the limit finding quality time with her family and the enormous intake of knowledge.  No-one can be gifted in intellect on every subject, she certainly won't be.

Despite having a supporting husband, family and carers she will in the end suffer from the lack of quality mothering directly gven to her children.  

Can you see her in the white house bouncing a baby on her knee?  What may seem cute now can be an absolute disaster in the end.  

You can't compare her to Hillary who does have experience and Chelsea has finished University.


----------



## blablabla (28 September 2008)

Julia said:


> I think a lot of us are dismayed at not just what is happening right now, but at the gradual and exponential erosion of respect for the US over the term of President Bush's watch.



True, but worse may be in store. So far, the erosion of respect for the USA is insignificant compared to what it will be if  Palin becomes VP. If she eventually becomes President then the predictable outcomes for US policies will probably alienate even the USA's staunchest allies, except for the USA's middle eastern surrogates and the Marshall Islands.


----------



## Julia (28 September 2008)

blablabla said:


> True, but worse may be in store. So far, the erosion of respect for the USA is insignificant compared to what it will be if  Palin becomes VP. If she eventually becomes President then the predictable outcomes for US policies will probably alienate even the USA's staunchest allies, except for the USA's middle eastern surrogates and the Marshall Islands.



The prospect of Palin as President is just to unthinkable to contemplate.


----------



## Doris (28 September 2008)

I do enjoy blogs:

Re: new shortened format of VP debate: 

(yep... she'll be learning McCain off by heart and none of her opinions will be revealed.)
Howzat for training a puppet VP! 



> The wrangling was chiefly between the McCain-Palin camp and the nonpartisan Commission on Presidential Debates, which is sponsoring the forums.
> 
> Commission members wanted a relaxed format that included time for unpredictable questioning and challenges between the two vice-presidential candidates. The commission *unanimously rejected a proposal sought by advisers to Palin and McCain* to have the moderator ask questions and the candidates answer, *with no time for unfettered exchanges*. Advisers to Mr. Biden say they were comfortable with either format.
> 
> ...





* Well, at least she didn't get the teleprompters the campaign asked for.

* I hope the belligerent third world dictators will be as accommodating.

* Ya don't debate third world dictators, ya bomb 'em. Duh.

* Holy crap! I can't believe the McCain camp actually said that. I know the campaigns try to set the bar low before these things,but this is pathetic.

* This is some bullsh!t. You can't change the format of the debate because Palin is inexperienced at debating. You don't get a handicap. This is a presidential election, not golf, the best player is supposed to win.

* How would shorter answers help someone who doesn't know what to say ?
Doesn't that increase the pressure on her ?

* I thought she was a pit bull who wasn't scared of the elitist media?

* If you believe that, then I have a bridge to nowhere to sell you.

* I.e. let her regurgitate talking points instead of answering the tough questions that a truly qualified candidate would be able to tackle.

* If she's inexperienced, doesn't that tell us something about her qualifications?

* Give her more rope, please. Just tell her its moose entrails, she'll use it as a lasso. Roy Rogers-style.

* But it was Will Rogers who said the famous line about "give a man enough rope, and he'll hang himself." Plus he did lasso tricks during his routines.

Although I'm starting to think that there were multiple references going on here...

* My girlfriend's favorite tactic: If you can't win by playing by the rules, change the rules.

* are you sure it isn't because joe never shuts up once he starts talking? looks like a win for both sides.

http://www.reddit.com


----------



## Green08 (28 September 2008)

Should we have a poll on what colour lipstick she might wear??

They are probably going over time to work on the cosmetic side of things her dress, shoes, hair, glasses anything to make her look credible.  

It's a sorry state of the world when men have to vote with their p......


----------



## Doris (28 September 2008)

*McCain camp prays for Palin wedding*

In an election campaign notable for its surprises, Sarah Palin may be about to spring a new one — the wedding of her pregnant teenage daughter to her ice-hockey-playing fiancÃ© before the November 4 election. 

Inside John McCain’s campaign the expectation is growing that there will be a popularity boosting pre-election wedding in Alaska between Bristol Palin, 17, and Levi Johnston, 18, her schoolmate and father of her baby. “It would be fantastic,” said a McCain insider. “You would have every TV camera there. The entire country would be watching. 
*It would shut down the race for a week*.” 

She could benefit from a fresh injection of homespun authenticity, the hallmark of her style, provided by her daughter’s wedding *after appearing out of depth away from her home state*. 


The conservative commentator Kathleen Parker, an early admirer, shocked McCain supporters late last week by calling on Palin to withdraw. “*My cringe reflex is exhausted*,” she wrote in National Review Online, a conservative journal. “Palin’s recent interviews . . . all revealed an attractive, earnest, confident candidate. 
*Who Is Clearly Out of Her League*.”

Parker advised Palin to “save McCain, her party and the country she loves” by announcing that she wanted to spend more time with Trig, her five-month-old Down’s syndrome baby: 
“*No one would criticise a mother who puts her family first*.” 


McCain is expected to have a front-row seat at Bristol’s wedding and to benefit from the outpouring of goodwill that it could bring. “What’s the downside?” a source inside the McCain campaign said. “It would be wonderful. I don’t know that there has ever been a pre-election wedding before.” 

The ice-hockey player wrote on his MySpace page he was a “f****** redneck” and stated, “I don’t want kids.” 
But a McCain insider predicted he would marry Bristol whenever his future mother-in-law wanted. 

“*It’s a shotgun wedding. She kills things*,” the source joked. 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4837644.ece


----------



## ZzzzDad (28 September 2008)

Doris said:


> *McCain camp prays for Palin wedding*
> 
> In an election campaign notable for its surprises, Sarah Palin may be about to spring a new one ”” the wedding of her pregnant teenage daughter to her ice-hockey-playing fiancÃ© before the November 4 election.
> 
> ...




This story is just so *False* it is not worth commenting on except to say that all these "anonymous" sources are just making things up.  Ridiculous.

The human gaffe machine (Biden) is going to put his foot in his mouth in the debate, and Sarah Palin will come out looking much better than him.

I'm glad all of y'all are underestimating Palin.  Ever heard of sandbagging?  Have you seen any videos of her debates in Alaska for the governors office?  against an entrenched incumbent?  (shhhh, she's a lot better at debates than gotcha edited interviews - but don't tell anyone)


----------



## Doris (28 September 2008)

Maybe it is a hoax -- but Sarah Baxter seems to have credibility as a journalist. (pictured below)

It's not the wedding that smells bad - it's the idea of using it politically! 

Who might 'the McCain source' be?  

Lots of conservative journalists have changed sides.  Is it too late to admit a mistake for Palin to pass?

How I'm grateful for my simple life!



> Voters typically focus almost exclusively on the presidential candidates, and even weak vice presidential nominees seldom drag down a national ticket.
> 
> While John McCain and his aides have railed against the "liberal mainstream media" in recent weeks, some of the most searing attacks against him have come from *conservative* intellectuals.
> 
> ...




http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-palin28-2008sep28,0,3440078.story


----------



## Doris (28 September 2008)

Tina Fey has just done Saturday Night Live again... as Sarah Palin.

- *The skit mocks Palin's recent interview with CBS News' Katie Couric *

Quite clever...

It's not on _youtube_ yet but no doubt when it is, THEY'll be turned into a pop video clip as the last one was!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/27/tina-fey-as-sarah-palin-k_n_129956.html

Scroll down a page for the video clip. There's a transcript of part of the skit below it... e.g.



> POEHLER AS COURIC: "On foreign policy, I want to give you one more chance to explain your claim that you have foreign policy experience based on Alaska's proximity to Russia. What did you mean by that?"
> 
> FEY AS PALIN: "Well, Alaska and Russia are only separated by a narrow maritime border. (using her hands to illustrate) You got Alaska here, this right here is water, and this is Russia. So, we keep an eye on them."
> 
> ...





*Note that Fey often quotes directly from Palin's original interview* -- apparently no parody was required: 

Here's the SNL transcript (below) with the original Couric-Palin video: (1min 15 secs)



FEY AS PALIN: "Like every American I'm speaking with, we're ill about this. We're saying, 'Hey, why bail out Fanny and Freddie and not me?' But ultimately what the bailout does is, help those that are concerned about the healthcare reform that is needed to help shore up our economy to help...uh...it's gotta be all about job creation, too. Also, too, shoring up our economy and putting Fannie and Freddy back on the right track and so healthcare reform and reducing taxes and reigning in spending...'cause Barack Obama, y'know...has got to accompany tax reductions and tax relief for Americans, also, having a dollar value meal at restaurants. That's gonna help. But one in five jobs being created today under the umbrella of job creation. That, you know...Also..."


----------



## ZzzzDad (29 September 2008)

*Something to think about if you really want to know who is at fault in this financial crisis.  It is too easy to blame Republicans - look below for the real culprits*

*McCain/Palin Could Win this Election by Exposing the Trillion Dollar Scam*

James Lewis
Sarah Barracuda could win this election on Friday night for the Republicans. All she needs is the courage to tell the truth in her debate with human gaffe machine Joe Biden -- with John McCain's permission and support -- to tell it like it is. 


If the great American middle class ever figures out the trillion dollar phony mortgage scam from Freddie and Fannie, they will finally rise up in wrath and throw the liberal bums out. Let it start hitting their pocket books, their ATM cards and credit cards, let their home prices fall like a rock -- and Barack Obama will be out of politics, along with the Democrat majority in Congress. 


For conservatives this is the opportunity of the century. 


That is why the Democrats are screaming with fear about the abyss that has suddenly opened at their feet. Since the Carter Administration first threatened the banks with punishment if they didn't allow themselves to be robbed by sub-prime borrowers, since the Clinton Administration made it all even worse in 1995, even the Democrats have known full well that the bills had to come due at some time.   


There is a sane reason why bankers and trustees have to exercise "due diligence" over other people's money. All the politicians are lawyers, and they know about money and theft. But "due diligence" was criminalized for bankers through Federal law. They were compelled, on penalty of law, to lend money at high-risk through Fannie and Freddie. It is the Great Stock Market Crash of 1929 all over again, where everybody bought stocks on margin until they could see the abyss opening up at their feet. Well, this time it was the Feds who created an insane lending scheme themselves.  The US Government threatened to punish bankers for "redlining" -- which in real life means giving money only to people who can pay it back. 


You can only bend the market through coercion for so long -- then things fall apart. That's what's happened here. 


The taxpayers are now on the hook for a trillion dollars, if you add the failed 300 billion dollar rescue package from two weeks ago to the 700 billion dollar Paulson package.   This is a trillion dollar scam, and all the politicians in Congress, the ACORN mafia,    the people who played the market on unsecured mortgages, and the scam artists who were hired by Freddie and Fannie -- they all knew it. In case you haven't been watching, that includes all of Barack Obama's "home mortgage advisors" -- Franklin Raines, Jim Johnson and Jamie Gorelick. It includes Senate Banking Committee members like Chris Dodd.  It includes House members like Barney Frank. Watch this video and you can see them strutting their stuff when the US watchdog agency criticized Fannie and Freddie in 2003. 




They knew exactly what was going on. 


This crisis is not financial -- it is political.  It's not a market failure. It's a decades-long theft by the Left, finally exposed for what it is. 


http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/09/mccainpalin_could_win_this_ele.html


The Democrats deserve the wrath of the voters this time.  


Sarah Palin could defeat Obama and Biden Friday night. All she has to do is tell the truth about the Democrats and the Trillion Dollar Scam. Not to do so would be collude in a massive Ponzi scheme, designed to fall on the shoulders of the taxpayers. 


This is precisely why we have elections. 


John McCain and Sarah Palin will need a lot of guts to do this. But the scam has to be exposed, or the fetid wounds in the financial sector will fester and metastasize.


----------



## dutchie (29 September 2008)

Sarah Palin reminds me of Mal Meningas' attempt at being a politician.


----------



## wayneL (29 September 2008)

ZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzDad,

As I recall there were some Republicans in between there, since Jimmy

1/ Ronnie
2/ Bush the Elder 
3/ Bush the Dumber

Why didn't they do something?

And the inconvenient truth is that the poo is hitting the propeller at the end of two terms of conservative watch, AND the period of greatest acceleration of this trend was in the last 7 years under Bush The Dumber. 

I have a feeling the Republicans won't be mentioning this. They wouldn't just be shooting themselves in the foot, it would be blowing it off with a bazooka.

That was actually laughable. (Understand that I'm not a fiscal liberal either)


----------



## IFocus (29 September 2008)

Ahh ump we wont then discuss who changed the leverage rules from 12/1 to 40/1 the investment banks could use in 2005.........


----------



## Doris (29 September 2008)

Oooops... Who let Palin out?

They'll now have to keep an eye (ear?) out to stop Palin talking to people in restaurants!

Palin didn't listen very well to the P debate...
Even though Bush has said this...  

McCain chided Obama for saying publicly he supports striking terrorist targets inside Pakistan if the Pakistani government is unable or unwilling to do so.

"You don't say that out loud, *If you have to do things, you do things*."


"*If that's what we have to do to stop the terrorists from coming any further in, absolutely, we should*," Palin said in a restaurant on Saturday, which was captured on video and reported by CBS News.

"She was in a conversation with some young man," McCain said during his own interview Sunday on ABC's "This Week." 
"She understands and has stated repeatedly that we're not going to do anything except in America's national security interest and *we are not going to, quote, announce it ahead of time*."

McCain said Palin's exchange was *not an official policy statement*.

"*I don't think most Americans think that that's a definitive policy statement made by Governor Palin*," McCain said.


----------



## sam76 (29 September 2008)

Matt Damon slays Palin in this interview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anxk...com.au/news/entertainment/the_nerve/index.php


----------



## ZzzzDad (29 September 2008)

wayneL said:


> ZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzDad,
> 
> As I recall there were some Republicans in between there, since Jimmy
> 
> ...




Wayne - did you even watch the video?  The Congressional Black Caucus was the group that kept Fannie and Freddie from being fixed.  These people have yelled and hollered for the past decade about "redlining" and racism in granting of loans, and have argued for "no peek loans", and loan quotas, etc., whether these people can even pay the loan after they got it didn't matter to them.  Maybe you have to live here to understand.  The Republicans tried to do something, but the Congressional Black caucus ranted and raved, and the Republicans caved.  Did you hear the Congressman that mentioned they are trying to "lynch" Frank Raines?  Yes, he used the word lynch.  Raines cooked the books at Fannie, and got 90 million over a 5 year period.

Fannie and Freddie were always Democrat pet agencies.  The revolving door from Democrat officials into and out of Fannie was revolting.

Put the Democrats in charge of the House, Senate, and Oval Office, and you will not see change.

The Dems even tried to insert a bonus to ACORN (google that one) into the bailout package.  Unbelievable.


----------



## ZzzzDad (29 September 2008)

*Items remove from the bailout package by REPUBLICANS*



> The funding of the Housing Trust Fund, the slush fund that feeds ACORN and La Raza, is out.  You can thank House Republicans for enough obstructionism to get that result.  Other changes made to the final version of the bailout, according to a source on the Hill, were the removal of several provisions:
> Provision to provide unions and other activist groups with proxy access for corporate boards
> Provision to mandate shareholder votes on compensation issues (union priority)
> Diversion of funds into a housing fund to support left-wing activist groups like ACORN
> ...




*Anyone that doesn't think most of the problem is due to Democrats and their special interests, hasn't been paying attention, or, they have only been looking at the MSM*


----------



## Nashezz (29 September 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> *Items remove from the bailout package by REPUBLICANS*
> 
> 
> 
> *Anyone that doesn't think most of the problem is due to Democrats and their special interests, hasn't been paying attention, or, they have only been looking at the MSM*



 Anyone that believes your totally one-eyed view of things would be misleading themselves.


----------



## ZzzzDad (29 September 2008)

Nashezz said:


> Anyone that believes your totally one-eyed view of things would be misleading themselves.




That's okay, bury your head in the sand.  Be honest, have you heard any of what I have said in my last couple of posts in the MSM?  Do you have any curiosity about what is really going on here in America?  Perhaps you have just made up your mind, and now have your hands over your ears.  For myself, I blame both sides, I've said that before in previous posts.  But to think that Obama and the Democrats are not knee deep in this stuff is just wrong.  For example, Obama got the second most political donations from Fannie and Freddie since 1989.  What makes that even more incredible is that he has only been a Senator for 3 years and 9 months.  The number one person that received political donations from Fannie was the Chairman of the Banking Committee, Senator Dodd (Democrat of Connecticut), and that is over an almost 20 year period.

Nevermind, Blame Bush/McCain for all the world's problems if it makes you feel better.


----------



## IFocus (29 September 2008)

> Nevermind, Blame Bush/McCain for all the world's problems if it makes you feel better.




Blame or failure to take responsibility for the current chaos I didn't think the Dem's were in the white house?


----------



## spooly74 (29 September 2008)

A bit of fun


----------



## Doris (29 September 2008)

Great find spooly74!
This collates the best of her worst... to date.

It's a good lesson for all of us... Don't speak unless you improve on the silence.

I wonder if 10am Friday our time (am I right this time... with daylight saving in the US 2020?) Palin will have learned her facts well and can project them by rote to the actual questions asked.  She has to redeem herself.  Can she?

... BTW Boston Legal is on...


----------



## 2020hindsight (29 September 2008)

lol - hey spooly that's classic.  - but terrifyingly so.  



> hopefully America learns that having a grade-A-moron and screwup-artist in charge is a bad thing




they couldn't vote her in,  could they??


----------



## ZzzzDad (30 September 2008)

Joe Biden - singing while Drunk



Barack Obama and Joe Biden Gaffe Machines





*And my favorite one:*

Joe Biden Screws Up During Interview




*There are dozens more of these gaffes, but you get the picture.  I'll take Sarah Palin over these morons anytime.*


----------



## Doris (30 September 2008)

*Palin Can't Afford a Debate Mistake*

A major mistake, particularly on foreign policy, would be absolutely fatal to her candidacy.

Palin must also avoid what we've seen from her in recent media interviews:
those deer in the headlight moments where it seems like she doesn't know what to say.

*Watch for Palin to come out aggressively against Obama*, McCain campaign officials told ABC News.

Part of Palin's strategy will be to call Obama out as a liberal, putting him on the defensive *so that Biden will have to answer for Obama*.

The McCain campaign is bringing in some heavy hitters to prepare Palin this week for the debate. 

The reaction among some conservatives has turned bad. 
There are lots of second thoughts now about her selection within the conservative community, and *the buzz on Palin has gone all bad*. 

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09/stephanopoul-10.html

Biden can't use McCain's denigrating-Obama strategy can he... he'd be accused of disrespecting a woman!
... not that he would.  He's a gentleman who has dignity.


----------



## It's Snake Pliskin (30 September 2008)

After watching the videos above I feel sorry for Americans.


----------



## Nashezz (30 September 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> Joe Biden - singing while Drunk
> 
> *There are dozens more of these gaffes, but you get the picture.  I'll take Sarah Palin over these morons anytime.*




Is singing while drunk a bad thing in America? Does this mean we can expect some kind of new aggression towards Japan and Korea if McCain/Palin get in, in order to wipe out Karaoke bars? The War on Karaoke. 

Posting that singing video as a bad thing, and thinking that gaffes are actually worse then a complete lack of knowledge or (seeming) intelligence is pretty funny. 

Surely if you take off the rose-coloured glasses you can see that Palin is a completely inappropriate and 'lacking' candidate whatever you may think about the politicians from the other side.


----------



## Doris (30 September 2008)

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=9952594&ch=4226716&src=news

Video clip of Palin talking about her debate with Biden.

She is so painful to listen to! Wish McCain's people would give her elocution lessons too! 

Watch McCain beam as she *reads* about him 'on the stage' last Friday night.
Then she arrogantly *reads* abuse of Biden and the debate with him. Ugh!
She copies Mahommed Ali's style.
"I haven't met him yet but I remember hearing about him since I was in the second grade!"  Nasty piece!


----------



## Green08 (30 September 2008)

With all this negativity from Palin and Mc Cain trying to score point with the public. 

It defeats the purpose of the campaign.  Do tey actually have some policies or are they aiming to get in on their whinging and bitching abilities.

I'm sick of Palin/McCain spending so much time resorting to finding fault when they haven't looked at themselves clearer.

This is meant to be a campaign about leadership?!  

Leaders also should be humble enough to admit a mistake they have made like McCain's 26 years of No Regulation of Wall Street.

Palin does she know where Wall St is?  Has she been there?  Small time Mayor is out of her league when it comes to the complexity of Wall Street.


----------



## 2020hindsight (30 September 2008)

:topic
http://www.cityofwasilla.com/index.aspx?page=82


> The City of Wasilla derives its name from Chief Wasilla, a respected local Dena'ina Athabascan Indian Chief. There is some debate about the meaning of the Chief's name. One source claims it means "breath of air" in the Dena'ina Athabascan Indian dialect. *Other sources assert the name descended as a variation of the Russian name "Vasili" meaning "William".*




Heck I know all about Russia...  My home town is descended from Russians ...


----------



## 2020hindsight (30 September 2008)

:topic
PS  just a ramble over a few peripheral points.. 

No doubt most have heard this, but the fact that Alaska can see Russia on a good day - and that means you're an expert on Russia and ready to set the world and it's "funny little tantrums and tensions" right,    etc  

Does that mean that, with the tallest mountain in USA, Mount McKinley (6,194m), that she's closest to space, and therefore an expert on outer space as well?

As for sorting out the Middle East .. I can imagine her saying "Heck I've brought up 5 kids - well one's only coming up 1 year old - but the Middle East will be a snack " .. 

5 kids... Bristol. Piper. Track. Willow. Trig.


> Together, the five names stunned one maven.
> 
> "In my 20 years in the field and after writing nine baby-name books, I gotta say [she] stumped the master," said Pamela Satran, co-author of the book "The Baby Name Bible."
> "I've never heard of those."




PS As for "shoot first, check if was a moose or a deer later" ....
What was that quote based on Golda Mier? (paraphrased) 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golda_Meir

".. Until we learn to love our children more than we hate our enemies.."
http://dailydoublestandard.blogspot.com/2006/08/when-will-we-learn-to-love-our.html
Somehow I can't see Sarah in a peace-making role.


----------



## Bushman (30 September 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> Barack Obama and Joe Biden Gaffe Machines




Hey sleepy - in these times of mass media, you will find gaffes. 

104 of your Republican senators just rejected a motion sponsored by your own beloved leader and beloved incumbent. If they are viewing Bush & McCain with suspicion, what of the man on the street? 

Here is what Pelosi said today. I quote it because I agree with the sentiment (I cannot vote in the US election after all). *'The party is over' *sleepy and the worst excesses happened on your watch. Conspiracy theories and media propaganda will get you nowhere now: 

''They claim to be free market advocates when it's really an anything-goes mentality: No regulation, no supervision, no discipline. And if you fail, you will have a golden parachute and the taxpayer will bail you out. Those days are over. The party is over,'' Pelosi said.

''Democrats believe in a free market,'' she said. ''But in this case, in its unbridled form, as encouraged, supported, by the Republicans - some in the Republican Party, not all - it has created not jobs, not capital. It has created chaos.''


----------



## Aussiejeff (30 September 2008)

It's Snake Pliskin said:


> After watching the videos above I feel sorry for Americans.




After finding out the Morally Great White Knight Sir KRudd had once appeared to be in a drunken state at a strip club, I felt sorry for all Orstraylians...


----------



## IFocus (30 September 2008)

Aussiejeff said:


> After finding out the Morally Great White Knight Sir KRudd had once appeared to be in a drunken state at a strip club, I felt sorry for all Orstraylians...




LOL I remember telling some Americans about Bob Hawk in the 80's holding the record for the yard glass drinking at Oxford and then listing his other foibles we all agreed at the time that no US president could get elected with such a back ground.


----------



## 2020hindsight (30 September 2008)

IFocus said:


> LOL I remember telling some Americans about Bob Hawk in the 80's holding the record for the yard glass drinking at Oxford ....



yeah, 
...
but did he swallow ?


----------



## sam76 (30 September 2008)

Jack Cafferty Tells Us How He Really Feels About Sarah Palin

*THIS CHICK IS DANGEROUS!!!!!!!*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8__aXxXPVc

From today
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCRKl6ZvorE&feature=user

love this comment

*"oh.. can't wait til John kicks the bucket during his term and one of the worlds most powerful leaders becomes a beauty pageant airhead who thinks foreign policies is keeping a lookout to see if Russia sent anyone swimming over the Bering Strait." *


Republicans should read this as well 
http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/


----------



## 2020hindsight (30 September 2008)

sam76 said:


> THIS CHICK IS DANGEROUS!!!!!!!



no argument from me sam..
in fact I reckon even Corey would make a better VP, lol


----------



## Julia (30 September 2008)

ABC Local Radio Qld this evening broadcast a very funny spoof audio of the Palin/Couric interview.   There doesn't seem to be a link posted on the ABC website yet, but it should be available in the next couple of days.
The horrible truth, though, was that some of it was taken verbatim from Palin's remarks in the real interview.


----------



## Doris (30 September 2008)

Julia said:


> ABC Local Radio Qld this evening broadcast a very funny spoof audio of the Palin/Couric interview.   There doesn't seem to be a link posted on the ABC website yet, but it should be available in the next couple of days.
> The horrible truth, though, was that *some of it was taken verbatim from Palin's remarks in the real interview*.




Julia - *Did you see my post #275 on this thread?*

I put part of the Palin - Couric interview - then the transcript of Tina Fey's spoof.

You can read it whilst you listen to Palin's actual words spoken to Couric as the video plays.

It is great comedy - frightening too as it is reality!

Like the reality comedy of a $trillion lost on Wall Street today to save $0.7 trillion of the bailout.


----------



## websman (1 October 2008)

sam76 said:


> Jack Cafferty Tells Us How He Really Feels About Sarah Palin
> 
> *THIS CHICK IS DANGEROUS!!!!!!!*
> 
> ...



Sarah Palin does not scare me one bit...But you guys do.


----------



## Green08 (1 October 2008)

websman said:


> Sarah Palin does not scare me one bit...But you guys do.




That is just so typical coming from a Republican orientated American.

You can't see the trees for the forest


----------



## sam76 (1 October 2008)

websman said:


> Sarah Palin does not scare me one bit...But you guys do.





LOL, mate did you vote for Bush as well


----------



## IFocus (1 October 2008)

websman said:


> Sarah Palin does not scare me one bit...But you guys do.




LOL love your style Websman


----------



## Doris (1 October 2008)

Another CBS interview example of how up to date this woman is:

Couric: And when it comes to establishing your worldview, I was curious, what newspapers and magazines did you regularly read before you were tapped for this to stay informed and to understand the world?

Palin: I've read most of them, again with a great appreciation for the press, for the media.

Couric: What, specifically?

Palin: Um, all of them, any of them that have been in front of me all these years.

Couric: Can you name a few?

Palin: I have a vast variety of sources where we get our news, too. Alaska isn't a foreign country, where it's kind of suggested, "Wow, how could you keep in touch with what the rest of Washington, D.C., may be thinking when you live up there in Alaska?" Believe me, Alaska is like a microcosm of America.


----------



## Doris (1 October 2008)

Couric interviewed Palin and McCain on her CBS News show yesterday:

 *A boon for lawyers getting women their monetary rights... so don't allow LFP Act*?  Hypocrite?! 
Bamboozle with laws in place but don't practice what you preach by supporting women's rights! 


Couric: What is your definition of a feminist?

Palin: Someone who believes in equal rights. Someone who would not stand for oppression against women.

Couric: Where do you stand on the Ledbetter Fair Pay Act?

Palin: I’m absolutely for equal pay for equal work. The Ledbetter pay act - it was gonna turn into a boon for trial lawyers who, I believe, *could have taken advantage of women who were many, many years ago who would allege some kind of discrimination*. Thankfully, there are laws on the books, there have been since 1963, that no woman could be discriminated against in the workplace in terms of anything, but especially in terms of pay. So, thankfully we have the laws on the books and they better be enforced.

Couric: The Ledbetter act sort of *lengthens the time a woman can sue* her company if she's not getting equal pay for equal work. *Why should a fear of lawsuits trump a woman's ability to do something* about the fact that women make 77 cents for every dollar a man makes. And that's today.

Palin: There should be no fear of a lawsuit prohibiting a woman from making sure that the laws that are on the books today are enforced. I know in a McCain-Palin administration we will not stand for any measure that would result in a woman being paid less than a man for equal work.

Couric: Why shouldn’t the Ledbetter act be in place? *You think it would result in lawsuits brought by women years and years ago*. Is that your main problem with it?

Palin: It would have turned into a boon for trial lawyers. Again, thankfully *with the existing laws we have on the books, they better be enforced*. We won't stand for anything but that. We won't stand for any discrimination in the workplace - that there isn't any discrimination in America.


*Transcript: Palin And McCain Interview* from yesterday:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/30/eveningnews/main4490788.shtml?source=mostpop_story


----------



## Doris (1 October 2008)

Katie is brilliant at entrapment: 

* She gets Palin's 'agree with everything McCain says doctrine' locked in:



> Couric: John McCain proposed legislation calling for *mandatory caps* on global warming gases or CO2 emissions. Do you agree with that?
> 
> Palin: *I support his position on that. Absolutely*.




* And turns the tide to see how Palin will swim:



> Couric: *But he somewhat backtracked* on the campaign trail saying it wouldn't, they wouldn't, *the caps wouldn't be mandatory, they'd be voluntary*. So what do you think? Do you think voluntary caps go far enough? Or they should be mandatory?




But Palin circumvents the question and treads water... trying not to drown (or answer the question):



> Palin: He's got a good cap and trade policy that he supports. And details are being hashed out even right now. *But, in principle, absolutely,* I support all that we can do to reduce emissions and to clean up this planet. And John McCain is right on board with that.
> 
> Couric: *Voluntary or mandatory in your view*?
> 
> Palin: We're gonna keep working on how it can be implemented to actually make sense and make a difference.




*On the issue of abortion*:

Hmmm... have a law in place but don't enforce it??



> Palin: And, um, if you're asking, though, kind of foundationally here, should anyone end up in jail for having an … abortion, absolutely not. That's nothing I would ever support.
> 
> Couric: So you want more support so women have more options, or girls have more options. But you also think *it should be illegal*, that there should be no punishment if a woman does break the law…



http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/30/eveningnews/main4490788_page2.shtml


----------



## Doris (1 October 2008)

I'm pretty sure Americans have only another 3-4 days to enrol... 2 days after the VEEP debate.
I almost feel sorry for Palin until I remember why she is in the news!



> John McCain’s campaign is putting *pressure on the organisers* of the vice-presidential debate tomorrow night *to go easy on Sarah Palin* amid growing alarm that faltering performances in recent days have made her an object of public ridicule.
> 
> Yesterday Palin was at Mr McCain’s ranch in Arizona with some of his most senior advisers, undergoing an intensive programme of preparation for the televised clash with Joe Biden, her Democratic rival.
> 
> Nancy Pfotenhauer, a senior campaign strategist for Mr McCain, *has asked for fewer questions than might be expected on foreign policy in the debate*. *Pointing out that Mr Biden* – chairman of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations – *would have an advantage on such issues*, she said that the clash should at least be evenly balanced with domestic concerns. “*The moderators will have some questions to answer themselves if they do go so heavy [on] foreign policy*.”




Bloggers:

* Does anyone else have a problem with the fact that the Republicans are asking the moderators to dumb down the debate so as not to embarrass Mrs. Palin? She's running for VP of the United States of America, for goodness sake! There shouldn't be a curve on this test.

* Go easy on her? Since when have we lowered our expectations for one of the highest positions in the country, not to mention the world? Scary. Very, very scary.

* 'Fixing' debate questions is an absolute nonsense and makes a mockery of the US electoral system. Which over the last few years has become easy to do.

* Leave her there; everytime she opens her mouth it's another vote for Senator Obama. How could the Republicans be so stupid as to nominate her in the first place? Oh silly me, they nominated G W Bush and there's only a thin line separating him and Ms Palin.

* So many people give Palin chances, like "shes new, dont be hard on her". I wonder if Palin would give you a chance? Anyway, I am tired of this drama about Palin being inexperienced. Many people make it sound like its an excuse. I mean, was she forced into the race for VP?
Stop the drama, vote Obama

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4856631.ece


----------



## 2020hindsight (1 October 2008)

Doris
, speaking of memorising stuff...
She should get her excuses ready in case she screws up..

One of the best had to be Downer - leader of Opposition at the time - screwed up an answer to the press causing a backflip - his excuse :-  

"But I was emotionally affected by the corroboree"  

Here are some other ones for her to memorise maybe 



> http://reasonsyouwillhateme.com/thi...omething-other-than-a--slightly-toffy-bumlord
> 
> (Wisely using confectionary as point of reference) "You know government isn't about always easy decisions or being a marshmallow."
> 
> ...




I imagine in her case ... "the kids were restless last night , and I didn't get a wink of sleep!  - Now... please explain the question again. ..".


----------



## sam76 (1 October 2008)

Top 10 Dumbest Sarah Palin Quotes

 1. "As for that VP talk all the time, I'll tell you, I still can't answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the VP does every day?" --Sarah Palin, interview with CNBC's "Kudlow & Co", July 2008 (Watch video clip)

2. "As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where– where do they go? It’s Alaska. It's just right over the border." --Sarah Palin, explaining why Alaska's proximity to Russia gives her foreign policy experience, interview with CBS's Katie Couric, Sept. 24, 2008 (Watch video clip)

3. "I'll try to find you some and I'll bring them to you." --Sarah Palin, asked by Katie Couric to cite specific examples of how John McCain has pushed for more regulation in his 26 years in the Senate, CBS interview, Sept. 24, 2008 (Watch video clip)

4. "I told the Congress, 'Thanks, but no thanks,' on that Bridge to Nowhere." –Sarah Palin, who was for the Bridge to Nowhere before she was against it, multiple

5. "That's exactly what we're going to do in a Palin and McCain administration." --Sarah Palin, elevating herself to the top of the ticket, Cedar Rapids, Iowa, Sept. 18, 2008 (Watch video clip)

6. "I've been so focused on state government, I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq." –Sarah Palin, interview with Alaska Business Monthly, March 2007

7. "Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending soldiers out on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan." –Sarah Pailn, on the Iraq war, speaking to students at the Wasilla Assembly of God, June 2008 (Watch video clip)

8. "I think God's will has to be done in unifying people and companies to get that gas line built, so pray for that." –Sarah Palin, on the $30 billion national gas pipeline project that she wanted built in the state, speaking to students the Wasilla Assembly of God, June 2008 (Watch video clip)

9. "Perhaps so." --Sarah Palin, when asked if we may need to go to war with Russia because of the Georgia crisis, ABC News interview, Sept. 11, 2008

10. "I'm the mayor, I can do whatever I want until the courts tell me I can't.'" --Sarah Palin, as quoted by former City Council Member Nick Carney, after he raised objections about the $50,000 she spent renovating the mayor's office without approval of the city council


----------



## BradK (2 October 2008)

*Fundamentalist Palin*

<embed src="http://services.brightcove.com/services/viewer/federated_f8/1417423198" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" flashVars="videoId=1827891038&playerId=1417423198&viewerSecureGatewayURL=https://console.brightcove.com/services/amfgateway&servicesURL=http://services.brightcove.com/services&cdnURL=http://admin.brightcove.com&domain=embed&autoStart=true&" base="http://admin.brightcove.com" name="flashObj" width="486" height="412" seamlesstabbing="false" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" swLiveConnect="true" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash"></embed>


----------



## websman (2 October 2008)

Green08 said:


> That is just so typical coming from a Republican orientated American.
> 
> You can't see the trees for the forest




I'm not worried about the trees...I own a chainsaw, and know how to use it.


----------



## 2020hindsight (2 October 2008)

websman said:


> I'm not worried about the trees...I own a chainsaw, and know how to use it.



yep those redwoods make great firewood.  

You reckon Palin (were she to become President) would permit exploratory drilling for oil in National Parks (as well as ANWR)?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_National_Wildlife_Refuge


----------



## ZzzzDad (2 October 2008)

sam76 said:


> Top 10 Dumbest Sarah Palin Quotes




Hey Sam - You do realize that Chuck Norris has endorsed McCain, right?  He only did it after McCain chose Palin.  He was going to sit it out before the Palin selection.

http://townhall.com/Columnists/ChuckNorris/2008/09/09/the_maverette



> The "Maverette"
> by Chuck Norris
> 
> I'll be honest with you. I'd been giving consideration to third-party candidates. As a conservative with a renewed pledge to bear the legacy of America's Founders, I wasn't going to simply concede to the McCain ticket unless he made a credible (and what might be viewed as a radical) choice for vice president.
> ...




Continue here:
http://townhall.com/Columnists/ChuckNorris/2008/09/09/the_maverette

*Sam, your hero is for McCain/Palin - you better get with the program, or they will both kick your a..*


----------



## websman (2 October 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> yep those redwoods make great firewood.
> 
> You reckon Palin (were she to become President) would permit exploratory drilling for oil in National Parks (as well as ANWR)?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_National_Wildlife_Refuge




That would be pine trees in my part of the country.

I certainly hope that she would permit drilling in Anwr.   I predict that the U.S. will become energy dependent within the next 25 years.


----------



## wayneL (2 October 2008)

Just a point in our celebrity obsessed cultures(s). That such and such an actor, singer or chop socky celebrity, is supporting xyz candidate, whether its McCain, Obama, or Obe Wan Kinobe, is about the very last reason folks should be supporting said candidate.

That's ridiculous.

Make your own decisions folks. (Fortunately it's just spectator sport for us, we don't have to vote for any of these mugs )


----------



## websman (2 October 2008)

wayneL said:


> Just a point in our celebrity obsessed cultures(s). That such and such an actor, singer or chop socky celebrity, is supporting xyz candidate, whether its McCain, Obama, or Obe Wan Kinobe, is about the very last reason folks should be supporting said candidate.
> 
> That's ridiculous.
> 
> Make your own decisions folks. (Fortunately it's just spectator sport for us, we don't have to vote for any of these mugs )





So, you mean we shouldn't support Obama, because of the fact that the Hollywood elite loves him.  I agree!  

It's obvious to me that the McCain/Palin ticket is the way to go.


----------



## wayneL (2 October 2008)

websman said:


> So, you mean we shouldn't support Obama, because of the fact that the Hollywood elite loves him.  I agree!
> 
> It's obvious to me that the McCain/Palin ticket is the way to go.




Childish spin.


----------



## websman (2 October 2008)

wayneL said:


> Childish spin.




I'm good.....


----------



## sam76 (2 October 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> Hey Sam - You do realize that Chuck Norris has endorsed McCain, right?  He only did it after McCain chose Palin.  He was going to sit it out before the Palin selection.
> 
> http://townhall.com/Columnists/ChuckNorris/2008/09/09/the_maverette
> 
> ...




LOL Yeah, I did know that. (I just hoped no one else would) lol

Poor old Chuck Norris does a few things that i'm not proud of, but I aint gonna argue with the guy.

One punch from him will hurt many generations past and future of Sam76's!


----------



## Julia (2 October 2008)

websman said:


> I predict that the U.S. will become energy dependent within the next 25 years.



Energy dependent?


----------



## Julia (2 October 2008)

Doris (or anyone else):  is the VP debate on ABC TV1 tomorrow 11am our time?


----------



## websman (2 October 2008)

Julia said:


> Energy dependent?





Uh...I meant independent.


----------



## Green08 (2 October 2008)

Julia said:


> Doris (or anyone else):  is the VP debate on ABC TV1 tomorrow 11am our time?





Title: Vice-Presidential debate

Date: Friday October 3, 2008
Time: 10:30AM AEDT


----------



## Green08 (2 October 2008)

World News Australia will broadcast all presidential debates and the vice presidential debate, commercial-free. 

The debates (screened live in the eastern states) will be concluded with local analysis by expert Australian commentators. 

In addition, all four debates will be streamed live on www.sbs.com.au 

Here's the schedule: 

Saturday September 27

America Decides: The First Presidential Debate 
10:55am – 12:30pm (LIVE EST only) 
Barack Obama v. John McCain on domestic policy. 

Friday October 3

America Decides: The Vice-Presidential Debate 
10:55am – 12:30pm (LIVE EST only) 
Joseph Biden v. Sarah Palin on domestic and foreign policy. 

Wednesday October 8

 America Decides: The Second Presidential Debate 
11:55am – 1.30pm (LIVE EST only) 
Barack Obama v. John McCain in a “town meeting” format. 

Thursday October 16

America Decides: The Third Presidential Debate 
11:55am – 1.30pm (LIVE EST only) 
Barack Obama v. John McCain on foreign policy.


----------



## Green08 (2 October 2008)

websman said:


> So, you mean we shouldn't support Obama, because of the fact that the Hollywood elite loves him.  I agree!
> 
> It's obvious to me that the McCain/Palin ticket is the way to go.




MMMMm I wonder if you checked everyone on board your ship

Obama donations; Star Trek" actor Leonard Nimoy and his wife Susan Nimoy each gave $2,300.


----------



## Green08 (2 October 2008)

*Republican officeholders*
Shirley Temple Black, actress, ran for Congress as a Republican, former U.S. Ambassador, served under four Republican Presidents. [1] 
Jim Bunning, Baseball Hall of Fame pitcher, U.S. Senator from Kentucky. [2] 
Clint Eastwood, actor, composer, director, producer, registered Republican, former Mayor of Carmel, California. [3] [4] 
Fred Grandy, actor, former U.S. Congressman from Iowa. [5] 
Jack Kemp, professional football player, former U.S. Congressman from New York, candidate for U.S. Vice President in 1996 with presidential nominee Bob Dole. [6] 
Lawrence Kudlow, CNBC host, journalist, former Associate Director for Economics and Planning in the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) under President Reagan. [7] 
Steve Largent, Pro Football Hall of Fame wide receiver, former U.S. Congressman from Oklahoma. [8] 
Judy Martz, Olympic speed skater, former Governor of Montana. [9] 
Tom Osborne, College Football Hall of Fame head coach, U.S. Congressman from Nebraska. [10] 
Jim Ryun, Olympic distance runner, U.S. Congressman from Kansas. [11] 
Joe Scarborough, MSNBC host, former U.S. Congressman from Florida, served on the President's Council under George W. Bush. [12] 
Arnold Schwarzenegger, actor, bodybuilder, Governor of California. [13] 
Fred Thompson, actor, former U.S. Senator from Tennessee, 2008 Presidential candidate.[14] 
J.C. Watts, football player, former U.S. Congressman from Oklahoma. [15] 
Ben Stein member of Nixon White House Staff. 
Dave Robisch, professional basketball player, currently an elected Trustee of Springfield, IL#Township, Illinois. 
Ducky Schofield, professional baseball player, currently an elected SMEAA board member. 

*Self described Republicans*
Danny Aiello, actor. "I turned in my card to become a Republican because I did not want to be known as a Democrat under that person's regime." [16] 
India Allen, actress and model former Playboy Playmate. "I'm a die-hard Republican." 
Kim Alexis, model. [17] 
Bob Backlund, professional wrestler. [18] 
Scott Baio, actor 
Adam Baldwin, actor. 
George A. Borgman, jazz journalist. Listed as Republican in Who's Who in America. 
William F. Buckley, Jr., Libertarian journalist and founder of the National Review magazine.[19] 
Dean Cain, actor [20] [21] 
_Mary Carey, pr0n star [22]_ 
Dixie Carter, actress, once jokingly described herself as "the only Republican in show business" [23] 
Kellye Cash, Christian singer and former Miss America; was twice elected to Tennessee Republican State Executive Committee [24] 
Jim Caviezel, actor.[25][26] 
Robert Conrad, actor. [27] 
Alice Cooper, singer. [28] 
Anthony Cumia, radio personality 
Linda Dano, actor 
Robert Davi, actor. Member of the Republican group The Sunday Night Club. 
Ted DiBiase, former professional wrestler. [29] 
Shannen Doherty, actress. [30] 
Jerry Doyle, actor, Babylon 5, (ran unsuccessfully for the 24th House seat from California as a Republican in 2000; now calls himself an independent) 
Robert Duvall, "One guy asked me, 'How can you be an actor and be a Republican?' I can vote either way. But how can you boil it down to political affiliation? All the atrocities against blacks in the South were committed by Democratic sheriffs." [31] 
Dale Earnhardt, Jr., NASCAR driver. "Politically, Junior does side with a voting block known as NASCAR dads. He’s a Republican and he supports George W. Bush." [32] 
Larry Elder, a radio show host. Elder is, "a member of the Republican Party who holds libertarian ideals." 
Sully Erna, lead singer for rock band Godsmack. "I'm a Republican...I don't love Bush, I'll tell you that, but I want a Republican in office." [33] 
Jamie Farr, actor. [34], [35], [36] 
Shandi Finnessey, Miss USA 2004. [37] [38] 
Bob Gale, co-screenwriter of Back to the Future, "I'm a registered Republican...and very anti-Communist from way back." (original source doesn't contain quote)[39] 
Vincent Gallo, director, actor [40][41] 
Kelsey Grammer, actor. [42] [43] 
Erika Harold, former Miss America. [44][45][46] 
Elisabeth Hasselbeck, Survivor contestant and host of The View The Washington Times, Centrists at center stage, by James G. Lakely 
Patricia Heaton, actress. [47] [48] 
Honky Tonk Man, professional wrestler. Member of the Pro Wrestling Republican Coalition. [49] 
Lisa Kennedy, former MTV veejay, game show host. [50] 
Rob Konrad, NFL fullback. [51] 
Derek Jeter-professional baseball player 
Dean Jones, actor, Republican activist, 2003 guest of the California Republican Assembly. 
Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, actor, former World Wrestling Entertainment athlete. [52][53] 
Patrick Johnson, NFL wide receiver. [54] 
Shirley Jones, singer and actress, registered Republican who has sung at the 1988 Republican National Convention and the 2003 Christmas Tree Lighting in Washington, DC, at George W. Bush's request [55] 
Don King, boxing promoter.[56] 
Ernie Ladd, former American football player and professional wrestler. Campaigned for George W. Bush in 2000 and attended the 2000 Republican National Convention. [57] [58] 
Tommy Lasorda, former major league baseball manager. [59] [60] 
Al Leiter, professional baseball player. [61] 
_Heather Locklear, actress won "Republican Babe of the Week" 
Audra Lynn, Playboy Playmate "Uhhh…(laughs) Republican…definitely!!"_ 
Don Mattingly, former professional baseball player. [62] 
Mimi Miyagi, pr0n star. Republican candidate for governor of Nevada. [63] 
Heidi Montag, reality television personality. [64] 
Chuck Norris, actor. Campaigned for George Bush in 1988 and supported George W. Bush in the 2000 and 2004 elections, appeared in campaign ads with Mike Huckabee and campaigned for him in the 2008 Presidential primaries. 
Alex Rodriguez, professional baseball player. Gave $2,000 to President Bush in '03. [65] 
Dina Merrill, actress, co-chair of the Republican Majority for Choice. 
Richard Petty, race car driver. [[66]] 
John Popper, lead singer of Blues Traveler. Describes self as "a Libertarian who is a Republican when pushed." [67] 
Freddie Prinze, Jr., actor [68] 
Tom Prichard, former professional wrestler. Member of the Pro Wrestling Republican Coalition. [69] [70] 
Emily Procter of CSI: Miami stated herself to be a Republican in Esquire. 
Ivan Reitman, director and producer. [71] 
John Rhys-Davies, actor. [72] [73] 
Kid Rock, singer. [74], [75] 
Mickey Rooney, actor, states he is a Republican in his autobiography Life is Too Short. 
Mickey Rourke, actor. [76] 
Jane Russell, actress, stated "I have always been a Republican." 
Aaron Russo, Hollywood producer planned to run for Governor of Nevada as a Republican. [77], [78] 
Curt Schilling, baseball pitcher, spoke for Bush in '04 election. 
Rick Schroder, actor, [79], [80] 
_Jessica Simpson, entertainer. [81][82], The Washington Times, Centrists at center stage, by James G. Lakely_ 
Gary Sinise, actor, [83] [84] 
Tony Sirico, actor. "I am a far-to-the-right Republican." [85] 
Rickey Skaggs, singer. [86] 
Grace Slick, singer. "I am a life-long Republican." interview, "Turn Ben Stein On", Comedy Central, 1999? 
Fred Smerlas, former NFL nose tackle. [87] [88] [89] 
Frank Thomas, professional baseball player. [90] 
Donald Trump, business executive, "I'm actually a Republican." 
Leeann Tweeden, model and television personality, former Playboy Playmate. [91] 
Peter Ueberroth, former MLB commissioner. [92] 
Jon Voight, actor 
Ultimate Warrior, professional wrestler. [93] [94] 
Jamie Smith, Reporter. Supports President George W. Bush. 
Terri Welles, actress and model, former Playboy Playmate. [95] 
Bruce Willis, Actor 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:M...ities_with_links_to_the_U.S._Republican_Party


----------



## 2020hindsight (2 October 2008)

Green08 said:


> www.sbs.com.au
> 
> Here's the schedule:
> 
> ...




Thanks Green, 
Gee I could've sworn a big percentage of the first debate was about foreign policy - Or does the USA now consider Iraq to be domestic policy?, lol 

As for your GOP Hollywood stars etc - I think I noticed Bill Cosby there at the Convention as well.  Probably won em a stack of votes. 

But surely if a black man were to become President, (and on talent), it would do wonders for inter-racial relationships in USA. 

They say "change the govt, change the nation".  That would certainly happen if Obama got in you'd think - much more so than if MCain got in.


----------



## Green08 (2 October 2008)

With pr0n stars, playbunnies and talent wannabes - Jessica Simpson what a support team:

Well they'll  keep the sex industry alive and with babies coming out non stop.


----------



## ZzzzDad (2 October 2008)

Here is a Wall Street Journal article that all of you Palin bashers should read...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122281636354892281.html



> *Palin Proved to Be Formidable Foe in Alaska Debates*
> By JOEL MILLMAN
> 
> ANCHORAGE, Alaska -- There are two things people here remember about Sarah Palin's debating style during her race for governor two years ago.
> ...




Continue here:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122281636354892281.html

*This is an expectations game.  The media and the Obamaniacs have set the bar so low for Sarah Palin.  All she has to do is hold her own, and let Biden be Biden, and she will come out the winner.*

Watch the video that is attached to the article.  Snippets of her Alaska governor's debates.


----------



## Green08 (2 October 2008)

Wait and see.  Every one is saying Biden should be careful as she is a women! After all it was the Republicans who put the rules in for the debate to make sure she wouldn't go off track.  Most of the front row seats were booked out by McCain, Wonder why? I hope the auditorium is completely dark.

If she entered politics it didn't come with a tissue box!!  She takes the questions as they come but let’s see if she can answer them.  If she is ever VP or the big P no world leader will be forgiving or give second chances on answering questions.   And the mother piece won't work either.  She is now in with the big boys she can take the punches without support.  

Being in Alaska debating is completely different than on the world stage.  You may be in the USA voting, not us.  But if she is a potential VP other countries leaders will be looking for weakness and flaws.  Don't assume you will go into another war with a presumed enemy.   

Biden should treat her as any other VP.  Don't look down on his experience and contacts. 

If she does get any "Gotcha Media" which is a total myth. She deserves it.


----------



## 2020hindsight (2 October 2008)

websman said:


> I certainly hope that she would permit drilling in Anwr.   ...




She's for drilling in the ANWR,  but he's against it 
http://www.newscientist.com/blog/environment/2008/09/agree-to-disagree-about-palin.html



> Palin and McCain: At odds over the environment
> *Someone, please, clarify something for me: what happens when a president and his vice-president "agree to disagree"?*
> 
> At least the George W Bush administration was consistent within itself. But *with the new Republican ticket, we are faced with the prospect of a US president who is against drilling in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge paired to a VP who staunchly supports it, and says the two will just have to "agree to disagree".
> ...




Maybe websman you can advise - What does it mean when P & VP agree to disagree? 

Do we just accept that this ticket is schizophrenic.  



> And will she be equally conciliatory about their opposite views regarding the causes of climate change? It's difficult to follow McCain's mercurial views, but he backs the scientific consensus that industrial activities are causing climate change and has supported cap and trade. Palin, on the other hand acknowledges that global warming is happening, but is "not one who would attribute it to being man-made".
> 
> *When couples agree to disagree, it's generally a way of closing a discussion, shelving it, putting it away, forgetting about it entirely. But this is crunch-time for the climate. In Copenhagen in 2009, world leaders will have to make arguably the most important environmental decision of their respective terms in office.*
> 
> ...


----------



## 2020hindsight (2 October 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> She's for drilling in the ANWR,  but he's against it



"Little is done when many command"  ... 

or do we just accept that she's gonna be a lame duck VP ?  

PS that article was from NewScientist.  - but I'm guessing you don't agree with such leftie opinions 

BTW, a blogger adds (on the subject of AGW)  :-


> Here's a compromise statement they can use and still be consistent: "God is causing Global Warming but if we stop dumping carbon into the atmosphere, God will stop making it warmer." Hope that helps, hate to see these two kids have a disagreement.


----------



## 2020hindsight (2 October 2008)

Teenage pregnancy rate (USA more than 3 times the AUS rate)  . 

Now you don't need divine inspiration to work out why 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_pregnancy


----------



## 2020hindsight (2 October 2008)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_pregnancy



> Most continental Western European countries have very low teenage birth rates. This is varyingly attributed to good sex education and high levels of contraceptive use (in the case of the Netherlands and Scandinavia), traditional values and social stigmatization (in the case of Italy and Spain) or both (in the case of Switzerland).[3]
> 
> *The teenage birth rate in the United States is the highest in the developed world,* and the teenage abortion rate is also high.[3]


----------



## Doris (3 October 2008)

Letterman said tonight:

Arizona is helping her a lot on developing her foreign policy skills as she's training for her debate:

"She can see Mexico from Arizona!"

He said he feels like a kid on Christmas eve, waiting to watch the debate. (at 10am here)

I wish her luck.  But not too much!  (Who said that?) 

A political commentator on Jim Lehrer's News Hour (SBS) said tonight that if McCain loses the election, Palin would probably be the leader of the Republican party.


----------



## noirua (3 October 2008)

Here's David Letterman on his Late Show:  http://lateshow.cbs.com/latenight/lateshow/dave_tv/monologue/index/php/monologue.phtml


----------



## ZzzzDad (3 October 2008)

The debate is over, Sarah beat Biden's butt.  Wow.  I was right, she's been sandbagging all along.

*WOW!!*


----------



## 2020hindsight (3 October 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> The debate is over, Sarah beat Biden's butt.




perhaps, zzd, as Palin so often has to say about McCain and his policies ..
"we can agree to disagree"


----------



## Doris (3 October 2008)

Was anyone else horrified to see Palin, post-debate, give her baby to her young daughter, 
just before they walked down to speak to the moderator?

Shades of Michael Jackson!  
That poor kid looked precarious as she took each step down!  

I held my breath hoping she would not trip! 
Palin stepped down ahead of her and didn't even look to see the situation!


----------



## Calliope (3 October 2008)

I felt sorry for Biden. He is a decent man. Being an old fogy myself, I am sure I would go to water if stacked up against an attractive, articulate young mother. He never laid a glove on Palin. He is too decent to join in the hate and ridicule Palin movement. I have a feeling they may get to like each other. It was their first meeting


----------



## wildkactus (3 October 2008)

Doris,
If that is the only thing you can say about the debate, she must have done ok.

I thought she did Quite well, It was all for her to stuff up.
She definantly held here own against her more seasoned rival.

The race is still alive.


----------



## Julia (3 October 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> The debate is over, Sarah beat Biden's butt.  Wow.  I was right, she's been sandbagging all along.
> 
> *WOW!!*



ZzzzDad, I guess we see what we want to.   You're less than objective about the candidates.   I only saw the last half hour but thought they both acquitted themselves quite well in completely different ways.
Mr Biden epitomised experience and a serious approach, plus good command of facts, whereas Ms Palin will have appealed to her already captive audience with her folksy "doggone" persona.  

I had to smile at her sometimes but doubt her approach - whilst probably admirably suited to downtown Wassila - is quite as appropriate for the V.P. of the US.

I doubt that too many minds would have been changed by the debate but would be interested in what others think.


----------



## Doris (3 October 2008)

What a master (mistress?) Palin was in skirting most of the questions to regurgitate her rote rhetoric. This was her major strategy for not slipping into a Gotcha moment. Filled up the two minutes well with little substance many times!  She went 10-20 seconds over her allocation a few times (should have watched the flashing light on Gwen's desk as Biden did) and I was amused when finally Gwen called time out... in which case Palin had not even begun to answer the question! Gwen's exasperation, IMO, was gentle yet clear in her voice. 

I thought Biden won this debate hands down.  He answered each question asked and gave relevant details with assured statesmanship.  He refuted Palin's inaccuracies with respect and good-will yet credibility. I was impressed.

No doubt McCain will have a new ad with Biden saying 'McCain's a good man' as he did with Obama's 'John was right'... their effort to project respect.

I loved Palin's dismissal of a question by saying 'you're finger pointing backwards, we're looking to the future'. 
Biden was quick to say 'The past is prologue'. You betcha. 

I also liked Biden's assurance and its source, that he does not question opponents' motivation, but their judgment.

I'm interested to hear (see) what you thought!


----------



## Green08 (3 October 2008)

Biden came across informed, articulate and well spoken.  He does have many contacts and years of experience.  What I found interesting as that when asking; along the lines of "What would have to change in your campaign in light of the financial crisis?" Biden was precise and direct that certain things would have to be amended.

Palin said we won't change anything. 

I didn't like her 'folksy' 'darn, 'heck', 'doggone' words - not the words of a dignified VP whom I could respect, I'm sure other world leaders thought the same.

She skirted a few questions and as others have said already.  Kept going on about energy and the State of Alaska with oil.  

I noticed every time she referred to the 'hockey mom' or similar statement about herself the line for the focus group men and women, dropped suddenly.

She did Ok but as she said "I've only been at this for 5 weeks". Not tnough to instill confidence and trust. That takes more than being a 'hockey mom'.

I found Biden to be humble and as commentators have said. "Restrained". He let her go on a few things which she didn't correct. 

Don't let the skirt, heels, and smile (sex appeal to the males) persuade the your vote.  Look at the facts. She is high on adrelinine and pumped.  Let the euphoria die down and see


----------



## Doris (3 October 2008)

From the WSJ:
I humbly agree!  
She didn't answer the question on deregulation but inserted her own agenda of advertising her 'experience'.
Shame on her trainers!  They didn't rote prime her on deregulation.

Biden delivered a withering critique of Sen. McCain's economic agenda.
He attacked McCain for favoring deregulation. 

Given an opportunity to respond to that, Palin went after Obama on taxes instead -- one area of the economy where polls show voters trust Republicans more.

That prompted Biden to say: 
"The governor *did not answer the question about deregulation*, 
*did not answer the question* of defending John McCain about not going along with the deregulation, letting Wall Street run wild."

Palin smiled in response and used the occasion to underscore her frequent attacks on the media: I may not answer the questions the way that either the moderator or you wanna hear, but I'm gonna talk straight to the American people and let 'em know my track record also.

Though Palin held her own in most cases, it was clear that Biden had a *deeper understanding of many of the issues*. He offered a detailed critique of the Bush administration policy on the Middle East. He noted, for instance, *the fallout from supporting Palestinian elections that wound up legitimizing Hamas, a terrorist group*.

Palin's response hit on none of the substance but suggested that Sen. Biden and his running mate spend too much time pointing to problems in the Bush administration.

Relevant doyathink?


----------



## ZzzzDad (3 October 2008)

All I can say is Sarah far exceeded expectations, and made no gaffes.

Can you imagine if Sarah had called the the Bosnians *Bosniacs?*

Not a big deal, but the media would have crucified Palin if she had said Bosniacs like Biden did.


----------



## 2020hindsight (3 October 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> All I can say is Sarah far exceeded expectations, and made no gaffes.
> 
> Can you imagine if Sarah had called the the Bosnians *Bosniacs?*
> 
> Not a big deal, but the media would have crucified Palin if she had said Bosniacs like Biden did.




Bosniac = Bosnian Muslim 
Biden is miles ahead of you zzd 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosniaks


> The Bosniaks or Bosniacs[25] are a South Slavic people, living mainly in Bosnia and Herzegovina ("Bosnia") and the Sandžak region of Serbia and Montenegro, with a smaller autochthonous population also present in Croatia, Kosovo and the Republic of Macedonia. Bosniaks are typically characterized by their tie to the Bosnian historical region, traditional adherence to Islam, and common culture and language.
> 
> In the English-speaking world, *Bosniaks are most commonly known as Bosnian Muslims*.




PS she might have exceeded expectations, but imo she was still trounced - in the nicest way


----------



## 2020hindsight (3 October 2008)

Just heard on the radio ... 


> Biden knew they just have to hold their position, and they're over the line,
> 
> Palin? - well when expectations are so low, she was able to succeed by just getting a passmark.




But the thought of her taking over the Whitehouse? - needed more than a passmark  - surely


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (3 October 2008)

When even the Australian ABC allows that Sarah Palin has been done over by the media, then the left horde who seem to have taken this thread over, should sit up and pay attention.

The Currency Lad, a lucid light in the Blogosphere wrote the following last night.

" Thursday, October 2, 2008
The Governor's Strenuous Life

WHEN Republican-loathing women politicians like Cheryl Kernot and Nicola Roxon criticise the kind of treatment received by Sarah Palin, it's a fair bet the Governor of Alaska definitely has been done over by journalists and commentators frantic to annihilate her for impacting on their ongoing canonisation of Barack Obama. The two women were speaking on tonight's Q&A and both pointed out that Governor Palin had received a level of 'scrutiny' no male candidate has ever received. Naturally, the two left-of-centre men on the panel - host Tony Jones and David Marr - indulged in butch condescension of the woman with far more experience than the junior senator from Illinois. Jones even segued to the supposedly campaign-destroying segment of Governor Palin's CBS interview with Katie Couric and compared it - split-screen style - to an SNL skit. Curiously, the ABC apparently has no access to 'misstatements' by Messrs Obama and Biden - although Marr himself cited YouTube as a reliable source."

Open his diary note and add to your favourites for an excellent commentary on politics here and overseas.

http://thenewcurrencylad.blogspot.com/

gg


----------



## unit (3 October 2008)

Youtube is a great reference to see how kooky Palin is. The Church speeches are especially interesting. McCain and Palin are stooges being setup for the fall imo.


----------



## Doris (3 October 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> All I can say is Sarah far exceeded expectations, and made no gaffes.
> 
> Can you imagine if Sarah had called the the Bosnians *Bosniacs?*
> 
> Not a big deal, but the media would have crucified Palin if she had said Bosniacs like Biden did.




She did admit schools need to be ramped up.  
 - She's a prime example of the need for elocution to be taught! (My Fair Lady!)
 - Did she have to go to so many schools for failing to answer the questions asked in her exams?


... don't you mean '*as* Biden did'?  

Do pedantics matter when the message is understood?
Does Palin know what Bosnia is?


----------



## Doris (3 October 2008)

*Two instant polls agree: Biden won debate*

More bad news for John McCain: 
Two quick, post-debate polls agree that Joe Biden was the better performer in his debate Thursday night with Sarah Palin.

-- CBS used uncommitted voters, who gave Biden the edge in early numbers, 46-21 percent, over Palin.

-- CNN's instant poll of regular voters showed Biden victorious, 51-36.

More polls will be released early Friday. 
http://voices.kansascity.com/node/2298


----------



## Doris (3 October 2008)

If Obama doesn't get his 270 electoral votes by the time California votes... no matter!  

Some bloggers on http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/10/sarah-palin-b-2.html

 *There is no way that Palin compares in depth in experience for the VP of the USA. She is way under qualified for that position. There is a huge difference between talking points that were well rehearsed by Palin and many years of experience of influencing policies like Biden to take on the depth of responsibility of running a country like America.

 * biden is the man! *honest, informed. human. he was not scripted*. he is genuine. .The man for our times

 * It is very difficult for me to understand how any intelligent individual could possibly think or believe that Governor Sarah Palin is qualified to be Vice President. Her performance in the debate was horrific. She doesn't have a clue of what the office of Vice President entails. Her responses or should I say lack of responses were terrible. They were the kind of responses that most high school kids make. In fact, most high school kids could have responded more intelligently than Governor Palin did. *I find it difficult how Senator McCain could possibly keep her on the ticket as his running mate.*

 * Joe Biden provided substantive answers. Sarah Palin dodged important questions, offered platitudes and false information, and clearly prepared and rehearsed answers. Sarah Palin is an embarrassment to all women and a clear example of the Republican Party's sexism, in that they obviously think this is the most you could expect from a woman candidate: little experience in the world of work or government, poorly informed about critical issues, and questionable higher education with poor academic achievement. *It is frightening that she does not know enough to know that she does not know enough!*

 20 seconds says it!


----------



## Doris (3 October 2008)

The highlights of the debate today:

90 seconds each - Their health care plans are first up - - Biden doesn't know where to start after Palin's answer!


----------



## 2020hindsight (3 October 2008)

thanks Doris 
Hell Biden is impressive isn't he


----------



## Julia (3 October 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> When even the Australian ABC allows that Sarah Palin has been done over by the media, then the left horde who seem to have taken this thread over, should sit up and pay attention.
> 
> The Currency Lad, a lucid light in the Blogosphere wrote the following last night.
> 
> ...



GG, have you considered that Ms Palin has only received so much media criticism *because she herself has provided the material for the criticism?*

You value coherence and the capacity to express ideas in an articulate way.
Why do you think she has done so few interviews?   Because in those she has done, i.e. with Katie Couric, she has mostly offered rambling incoherence with a failure to answer questions, even when those questions have been repeated several times.

Her performance today, as with her initial speech to the Convention, was pre-prepared and rehearsed.  Like an actress delivering the lines she has learned.
Surely you must have observed how often she referred to her notes.  Only when she was reverting to her now classic "down home cornpone hockey mom pitbull with lipstick" stuff did she speak to the camera without reference to her notes.

Cheryl Kernot, by the way, has every reason to dislike the media.   It exposed her hypocrisy and shallow motives.  Ultimately revealed her for the fool that she was.


----------



## Doris (3 October 2008)

*Fact Checker on the debate* by Washington Post journalists:

*1. Military*
Sarah Palin asserted that Biden backed McCain's military policies until this presidential race. 

*That is flatly false.* Biden was an outspoken opponent of President Bush's troop increases in Iraq *as soon as Bush announced them after the 2006 elections*. 

As Foreign Relations Committee Chairman, *he led the most heated hearings before the troops were actually deployed*.
--Jonathan Weisman

*2. Test Ban Treaty*
Biden asserted that McCain opposed the comprehensive nuclear test ban and that virtually every other Republican supported it. 

*That is false*. President Clinton never submitted the test ban for formal ratification *because it faced overwhelming Republican opposition in a GOP-controlled Senate*.
--Jonathan Weisman

Maybe McCain was one of those opposing it ???

*3. Iraq*
Sarah Palin *oversimplified* Obama's vote to stop funding U.S. troops in Iraq. She was referring to a Senate vote on May 24, 2007, on appropriations bill funding operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Obama was one of 14 senators who voted against the bill on the grounds that it did not set a timeline for the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq. *Obama made clear that he was in favor of funding the troops*, but could not agree to an indefinite extension of the war.

The previous month, most Senate Republicans voted against a Democratic bill (supported by Obama) that linked funding of the troops to the establishment of a timeline for withdrawal. McCain missed that vote.
--Michael Dobbs

*4. Iraq*
Palin repeated a standard line offered by the McCain campaign--that Obama has not admitted the "surge" of additional troops in Iraq worked.

But in a September interview with Bill O'Reilly of Fox News, Obama said "the surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated. . . I've already said it's succeeded beyond our wildest dreams."

*Obama has not*, however, *retracted his opposition to the surge*, and he has said political reconciliation still needs to take place in Iraq.
--Michael Abramowitz

*5. Oil*
Palin suggested that the nearly $700 billion the U.S. spends a year on imported oil could be replaced by domestic sources. 

CNNMoney.com took estimates from various government agencies to conclude that crude oil production *could be increased at most between 1 and 3 million barrels per year, on top of the 5 million barrels a day already produced domestically*. 

The United States currently consumes about 20 million barrels a day, so *an expansion of domestic drilling would make barely a dent in that amount *unless consumption also is reduced.
--Glenn Kessler

*6. Iraq*
Palin was *erroneous* when she claimed U.S. troop levels in Iraq are now at "pre-surge" levels. When President Bush announced last month that he would withdraw an additional 8,000 U.S. troops over the coming months, he committed to leaving at least 138,000 troops in the country at the end of his presidency, *3,000 more than there were before the troop increases known now as "the surge*."
--Jonathan Weisman

*7. Taxes*
Palin said a tax hike that hits earners over $250,000 would hit "millions of small businesses." 

*That is untrue*. The vast majority of small businesses barely break even and do not pay the top tax brackets. 

To get that figure, Republicans count *affluent taxpayers who claim some income from some small business income as "small businessmen."*
--Jonathan Weisman

*8. Taxes*
Palin repeated McCain's claim that Obama voted to increase taxes for every American earning more than $42,000 a year. 

*This is a considerable stretch*. Obama voted for a non-binding budget resolution that laid down general budgetary guidelines based on the assumption that the Bush tax cuts will expire, as scheduled, in 2011. 

*The budget resolution did not represent a vote to raise taxes*. Obama has said that he is in favor of continuing the Bush tax cuts for all but the wealthiest Americans.
--Michael Dobbs

One false claim for Biden - 7 False claims for Palin
But... Biden said McCain *opposed it* -- not that he *voted* against it (#2)
 - so maybe it was NOT false? 

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (3 October 2008)

Julia said:


> GG, have you considered that Ms Palin has only received so much media criticism *because she herself has provided the material for the criticism?*
> 
> You value coherence and the capacity to express ideas in an articulate way.
> Why do you think she has done so few interviews?   Because in those she has done, i.e. with Katie Couric, she has mostly offered rambling incoherence with a failure to answer questions, even when those questions have been repeated several times.
> ...




Good points Julia, and I accept your valid criticisms. 

However as a student of history you would see the comparisons between the US at present and ancient Rome.

I see Palin in a Claudius role, bringing sense and coherence to a nation which has deviated from its core values.

I have always found that the hardest thing about a job, is getting it. 

Claudius was mocked, and considered a fool, but he hung in and triumphed and led Rome well.

I see Obama and Biden as creatures of a decadent US, Hollywood obsessed and driven by a perception that spin will win. 

The US needs a clean sweep, from a man who has suffered , McCain,  and an able though yet to be proven possible successor as President in Palin.

Were Claudius put on Youtube the jennets who pass as commentators would fall over their silly cerebrums and mock him for being inarticulate rather than looking at his life experience, history and essence.

They (McCain and Palin) will change the US for the better, more than the present Democrats ever will, should they be elected.

gg


----------



## wayneL (3 October 2008)

Doris said:


> The highlights of the debate today:
> 
> 90 seconds each - Their health care plans are first up - - Biden doesn't know where to start after Palin's answer!


----------



## rederob (3 October 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I see Obama and Biden as creatures of a decadent US, Hollywood obsessed and driven by a perception that spin will win.
> 
> The US needs a clean sweep, from a man who has suffered , McCain,  and an able though yet to be proven possible successor as President in Palin.
> 
> gg



That's apparent from your posts.

Obama will win the election by a huge margin unless some catastrophic event stops him dead in his tracks - literally!

As it's the US that counts, US polls gave the debate to Biden by a very large margin - some as much as 20 points.

As a student of more recent history, JFK was a man in and for his time.  At that time the US was not really in need of a "saviour", although the Cold War and a rush to nuclear arms gave rise to a very different fear than exists today.

Today the US needs a number of things.  
First, a leader that can inspire by aspiring to put the nation on a new footing internationally.
Secondly, a regime in Washington that cleanses, albeit symbolically, the nation of its financial woes.
Finally, and most importantly, they need in their President the many qualities that Obama neatly packages and is primed to deliver.  In other words, they really need a candidate that oozes presidentiality.

McCain doesn't cut it and Palin's gloss will only ever be good to reflect on.


----------



## websman (3 October 2008)

Green08 said:


> I didn't like her 'folksy' 'darn, 'heck', 'doggone' words - not the words of a dignified VP whom I could respect, I'm sure other world leaders thought the same.




Maybe she doesn't like your twangy Australian accent either....


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (3 October 2008)

rederob said:


> That's apparent from your posts.
> 
> Obama will win the election by a huge margin unless some catastrophic event stops him dead in his tracks - literally!
> 
> ...




Who decides what oozes presidentiality??  the media?? or the people.

Your description of what the US needs describes Rome before Claudius got in.

Obama is a creature of spin, neatly packaged, and primed. It will be a social picnic.

America needs direction.

gg


----------



## Duckman#72 (4 October 2008)

Green08 said:


> I didn't like her 'folksy' 'darn, 'heck', 'doggone' words - not the words of a dignified VP whom I could respect, I'm sure other world leaders thought the same.




Excellent!!!! artyman:We have a celebrity ASF member lurking in our midst. Which world leader are you Green08? Give us a clue? 

Hang on a sec - "Green08" ........you're not Helen Clark are you? If you turn the lights off, walk to the other side of the room, then turn around and face the wall, your avatar appears similar to a youthful Helen.  

Duckman  

PS Bush has been saying similar hokey stuff for years and he's the actual President!!!


----------



## Doris (4 October 2008)

websman said:


> Maybe she doesn't like your twangy Australian accent either....




Could you justify this?  Lack of research and experience methinks!

Green08 is a cultured woman.  Not a yobbo!

btw... a yobbo is like your redneck hick - a decibel and a cousin away from Palin.

Palin's eyes are a great asset to her but her vocabulary and acoustics are that of a six year old on a new bike.

Californians speak without a twang... wonderful accent!  Wonderful people!


----------



## rederob (4 October 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> America needs direction.
> gg



Yes.
Eight years on and they have learned nothing.
The Republicans have no "direction".
They have no vision.
There is nothing in the Republican camp that can dig them from their mire.

As for who determines "presidentiality", the writing is very much on the wall of public opinion that is reinforced by the media.  

Some things are self-evident.  Evidently not universally.


----------



## cuttlefish (4 October 2008)

Garpal your blind acceptance of anything the republicans have to offer is nauseating and does nothing for your credibility as an independant thnker (not that you had any).

I've had more exciting conversations on street corners with evangelists - you appear incapable of objective thought.  But don't worry - you haven't been brainwashed - you're just smarter than everybody else


----------



## cuttlefish (4 October 2008)

By the way Garpal - Obama is no "creature" - in fact he may be a far better human than you'll ever be.  (to take analogies and spin a little further .


----------



## Julia (4 October 2008)

websman said:


> Maybe she doesn't like your twangy Australian accent either....



I'm not sure how you would know what sort of accent Green has.
The point is that Green is not standing for one of the most important public positions in the world.

Personally I find Ms Palin's voice and accent perfectly pleasant.  It's the content of what she says that bothers me.


----------



## ZzzzDad (4 October 2008)

Doris said:


> Could you justify this?  Lack of research and experience methinks!
> 
> Green08 is a cultured woman.  Not a yobbo!
> 
> ...




Doris, you do realize that this is why middle America (fly over country) love Palin so much.  The snobbery of the left.  They leftists really do believe they are the smartest people.  People like Sarah Palin are the backbone of this country.  The left will never "get" this.  

The snap polls after the debates always skew to the left, but the real polls will shift the other way.  Always happens.  In about 3 days, check Rasmussen and Gallup to see who was helped by this debate.  The chatter in middle America (the real America) is all Palin.  She connects with the working and middle class.

By the way, if Joe Biden is such great stuff, where is the Joe Biden thread?  And here we are with 19 pages of Sarah Palin.  A better per day rate than the Barack Obama page BY FAR.


----------



## websman (4 October 2008)

Julia said:


> I'm not sure how you would know what sort of accent Green has.
> The point is that Green is not standing for one of the most important public positions in the world.
> 
> Personally I find Ms Palin's voice and accent perfectly pleasant.  It's the content of what she says that bothers me.




Just making a point...Aussies accents are very cool.  Yes, Sarah Palin has an accent, but it has nothing to do with her ability to lead our country.  If the rest of the world doesn't like the way she talks, tough for them.


----------



## Calliope (4 October 2008)

Doris said:


> Green08 is a cultured woman.  Not a yobbo!




How do you know? Did she tell you this?  I found no evidence of this in her posts.

Or did you assume that because she thinks like you she must be cultured?


----------



## 2020hindsight (4 October 2008)

Doris said:


> Californians speak without a twang... wonderful accent!  Wonderful people!



you mean like Arnie 'Governator' Shorts-and-eggburger 

PS he's 100% behind action on climate change  - you're right , it is a wonderful accent 

PS As for Green - she makes sense to me  - so I'm guessing she has a great accent as well


----------



## 2020hindsight (4 October 2008)

Palin got away with murder in that debate - it was pretty obvious that the rules were modified to take account of her newcomer status. 

paraphrasing...

"I probably won't answer the way the moderator wants me to, but heck, gee whiz, that's me " etc 

"I know you've asked me about mortgage repayments, but I'm gonna talk about my specialty, and that's energy, ok... "

The moderator was so flaming tolerant.  

Speaking of which, I reckon Palin claiming to be "tolerant" would be an interesting one to check with a few people in Alaska - like the Chief of Police type dude she sacked etc.

- oh that's right,  she's managed to get the results of that little enquiry / matter deferred until after Nov 4


----------



## Green08 (4 October 2008)

Calliope said:


> I felt sorry for Biden. He is a decent man. *Being an old fogy myself, I am sure I would go to water if stacked up against an attractive, articulate young mother*.




Interesting to see where your weak points are and your self description.

Biden is not an "old fogy", yes he is ageing gracefully as we all will.

I did not admonish her accent. Though her words of choice do not come across as professional in the appointment she is seeking
.


----------



## 2020hindsight (4 October 2008)

Green08 said:


> Biden is not an "old fogy", yes he is ageing gracefully as we all will.



what was that song ?
just to keep her from the fogy fogy Jew .. 
not that Biden is Jewish lol (well not to my knowledge).

Biden is a classic! - gentleman, brilliant resume etc. Great commmunicator -- 
(PS crikey, he even knows what A VP does ! lol) 

heck jimminy cricket, he even answers the questions put to him, - and debates them "on the fly"  

and wow holy toleda batman, when he looks down at his desk, he actually emerges with real telling counterpoints (correcting her miriad claims about voting records etc) - not just memorising the next 2 minute bite for the next discussion point.   

 :horse:


----------



## noirua (4 October 2008)

It is generally accepted that the Vice Presidential running mates fought a draw.


----------



## Calliope (4 October 2008)

Green08 said:


> Interesting to see where your weak points are and your self description.
> 
> Biden is not an "old fogy", yes he is ageing gracefully as we all will.
> 
> ...




Apparently the words  "attractive, articulate young mother" are an anaethema to you. 

This surprises me because until Doris's revelation I had assumed you were a man. Your avatar being Jane Russell, a busty pinup of the forties misled me. 

I also assume that you and Doris are networking and your put-downs of Palin are coordinated.


----------



## Aussiejeff (4 October 2008)

noirua said:


> It is generally accepted that the Vice Presidential running mates fought a draw.




Seems like an overly "general" generalisation you have made, mate....  

According to the latest poll updates, the winner seems pretty damn clear to me..


_*Who Won VP Debate: A Review of Polls with October 3 pm update*

by George Harris
Kansas City Star
Readers Advisory Panel 2008

*update October 3 5:15 pm*

Two additional polls to report:

*Survey USA Biden 51% Palin 32%
Undecided 17%

MediaCurves.com tracked independent voters, showing them breaking to Biden 67% to Palin 33%.*

Original report:
Random and non-random polls for the vice presidential debate declare Biden the winner over Palin in the vice-presidential debate.

Non-random (unscientific) *polls on AOL and MSNBC web sites show Biden winning 48 to 45 and 78.6 to 18.9 respectively*.

Randomly selected subjects on * three other polls also show Biden winning:

CNN/Opinion Research Biden 51 Palin 36
CBS Biden 46 Palin 21
Fox Biden 61 Palin 39*

In the CBS poll, of the uncommitted voters, 18% now say they will vote Obama/Biden, 10% now say McCain/Palin.

Post-debate reaction seemed to agree that Governor Palin gave a good account of herself in being able to deliver prepared answers, though often not responsive to the question at hand.

Biden was able to draw on extensive experience from his long experience as a Senator.

I was surprised that Palin's charm did not work better than the poll results showed. But she likely was weighed down by Saturday Night Live parodies and interviews earlier in the week with CBS's Couric. By the time of the debate, people knew that she is not ready for the presidency and saw through her efforts to appear that she was with canned responses.

*The issue from the Thursday night debate ultimately is not about Palin but about McCain's judgment in selecting someone with so little qualification for national office.*

The McCain/Palin ticket will likely drop into attack gear for the remainder of the campaign in a last ditch effort to stop Obama and Biden. I think it's likely to become really ugly but hope that McCain chooses instead to recover some of his dignity as Palin did in a good effort Thursday night.

Submitted by GeorgeHarris on October 3, 2008 - 4:13am._

How do those figures equate to "a draw"??


----------



## 2020hindsight (4 October 2008)

Herewith excerpt from the transcript...
and two examples of "falling back to the energy question when you run out of energy on the topic "... 

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/02/debate.transcript/



> IFILL: Thank you, Senator.
> 
> Now... I want to get -- try to get you both to answer a question that neither of your principals quite answered when my colleague, Jim Lehrer, asked it last week, starting with you, Sen. Biden.
> 
> ...





Here's the correction btw ... :-


> BIDEN: Again, let me -- let's talk about those tax breaks. Barack Obama -- Obama voted for an energy bill because, for the first time, it had real support for alternative energy.
> 
> When there were separate votes on eliminating the tax breaks for the oil companies, Barack Obama voted to eliminate them. John did not.




Next example ..



> IFILL: Sen. Biden, you voted for this bankruptcy bill. Sen. Obama voted against it. Some people have said that mortgage- holders really paid the price.
> 
> BIDEN: Well, mortgage-holders didn't pay the price. Only 10 percent of the people who are -- have been affected by this whole switch from Chapter 7 to Chapter 13 -- it gets complicated.
> 
> ...


----------



## rederob (4 October 2008)

noirua said:


> It is generally accepted that the Vice Presidential running mates fought a draw.



Really!
There are polls that were taken that asked observers what they thought.
Palin was a clear loser, and by some very wide margins.
Palin did better than many expected, but this does not mean she won or drew with Biden.
Palin is a "polariser".
Hansen was a polariser in our political context.
If Palin doesn't screw her party boss she might not screw her political career as Hansen did.


----------



## 2020hindsight (4 October 2008)

Calliope said:


> Apparently the words  "attractive, articulate young mother" are an anaethema to you.
> 
> This surprises me because until Doris's revelation I had assumed you were a man. Your avatar being Jane Russell, a busty pinup of the forties misled me.
> 
> I also assume that you and Doris are networking and your put-downs of Palin are coordinated.




calliope 
you are one nasty dude aren't you.

What's worse you can't see straight - that's not Russell, it's Bridgit Bardot!

PS Since we've already torn into Green speculating on her accent, we might as well speculate on her bust measurement as well - Here's Hepburn vs Russell


----------



## Calliope (4 October 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> calliope
> you are one nasty dude aren't you.
> :




Pot calling the kettle black. If you are trying to make some point, what is it?

Evil to him who evil thinks.


----------



## Green08 (4 October 2008)

Calliope said:


> Apparently the words  "attractive, articulate young mother" are an anaethema to you.
> 
> This surprises me because until Doris's revelation I had assumed you were a man. Your avatar being Jane Russell, a busty pinup of the forties misled me.
> 
> I also assume that you and Doris are networking and your put-downs of Palin are coordinated.




"attractive, articulate young mother" do you leer after the yummy mummies on the Gold Coast?

You got the avatar wrong, I would have thought with your age as an "old fogy"  you may have seen the Golden Age of Cinema.

There is nothing coordinated with anyone.  Just people who have social manners voicing their opinions in your attacks on me.  Keep going it is showing who you really are as a human.


----------



## Julia (4 October 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> Herewith excerpt from the transcript...
> and two examples of "falling back to the energy question when you run out of energy on the topic "...
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/02/debate.transcript/
> ...



Thanks for posting that excerpt from the transcript, 2020.  I didn't see all the debate.
How could the moderator have allowed her to do that??????


----------



## Calliope (4 October 2008)

Green08 said:


> "attractive, articulate young mother" do you leer after the yummy mummies on the Gold Coast?
> 
> You got the avatar wrong, I would have thought with your age as an "old fogy"  you may have seen the Golden Age of Cinema.
> 
> There is nothing coordinated with anyone.  Just people who have social manners voicing their opinions in your attacks on me.  Keep going it is showing who you really are as a human.




Cultured... social manners:headshake Now who is getting nasty. I was only responding to your gratuitis attempt to point out my weaknesses. And now I have become a leering old man.

I live 200k from the Gold Coast. Well outside my leering range.


----------



## Bushman (4 October 2008)

Biden did not attack Palin even though he could have wiped the floor with her. Obama and Biden do not fear pops and the 'hockey mom'. 

Palin for will be more of a threat in four to eight years after the Democrats pull the US out of the fires and the American swagger is returned. Then war and greed will once again be as acceptable as apple pie.   

The one I am really waiting for is Chelsea Clinton vs Jemma Bush! Pass me the popcorn.


----------



## 2020hindsight (4 October 2008)

Bushman said:


> ..The one I am really waiting for is Chelsea Clinton vs Jemma Bush! Pass me the popcorn.



lol - totally agree on all those points bushman..

or maybe Chelsea Clinton  vs Meghan McCain

After all, this is what John McCain had to say about Chelsea a few years back . (1998 I think) . 
(as they say, it says something about McCain's sense of humour.   )



> http://www.salon.com/news/1998/06/25newsb.html
> Salon feels its readers deserve the unadulterated truth. Though no tape of McCain's quip has yet emerged, this is what he reportedly said:
> 
> *"Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?
> ...






> But by censoring themselves, (i.e. not publishing this "joke")  the Post, the Times and others helped McCain deflect flak and preserved his status as a Republican presidential contender




As I say that was old news...  Meanwhile Here are some internet comments about Meghan McCain's involvement in the current campaign .. .. 



> http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/12/18/meghan_mccain/
> 
> ...   So the question must be raised: What exactly is Meghan McCain, the 23-year old daughter of Republican candidate John McCain, thinking as she makes her way through the backstage passageways at her father's MTV/MySpace forum? Dressed to impress, in black knee-high boots, she moves on a mission, sometimes a Diet Coke in hand, a mini-entourage of friends swirling around: a photographer, a videographer, and a close pal, La-Toria Haven, who happens to be wearing a vintage campaign button from the 1972 McGovern campaign, with the anti-war message "Come Home America." Collectively, they are the team that produces McCainBlogette.com, one daughter's experiment in citizen journalism, a behind-the-scenes glimpse of a young person's life on the campaign trail.


----------



## Nashezz (4 October 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> The debate is over, Sarah beat Biden's butt.  Wow.  I was right, she's been sandbagging all along.
> 
> *WOW!!*




Really?

*WOW!!*

Who would have thought she could transform so dramatically and beat Biden.



Doris said:


> *Two instant polls agree: Biden won debate*
> 
> More bad news for John McCain:
> Two quick, post-debate polls agree that Joe Biden was the better performer in his debate Thursday night with Sarah Palin.
> ...




Oh. She didn't. Oops. How did you manage to get it so wrong Zzz?



ZzzzDad said:


> ....
> By the way, if Joe Biden is such great stuff, where is the Joe Biden thread?  And here we are with 19 pages of Sarah Palin.  A better per day rate than the Barack Obama page BY FAR.




Um, how many of the posts are positive about Palin? There was plenty discussed about Pauline Hanson here (in Australia) as well - didn't make her smart, capable or worthy of her position though.



Bushman said:


> Biden did not attack Palin even though he could have wiped the floor with her. Obama and Biden do not fear pops and the 'hockey mom'.
> 
> Palin for will be more of a threat in four to eight years after the Democrats pull the US out of the fires and the American swagger is returned. Then war and greed will once again be as acceptable as apple pie.
> 
> The one I am really waiting for is Chelsea Clinton vs Jemma Bush! Pass me the popcorn.




hehe - that debate would just about sum up the current situation in my books.


----------



## 2020hindsight (4 October 2008)

Julia
herewith another example of 
a) ridiculously twisted statements by Palin ("Obama voted for it, that's not the way to go" - when McCain voted the same way 
b) how she cannot argue any depth to her claims, and cannot and/or does not even try to defend them when they are challenged. 



> IFILL: Senator?
> 
> BIDEN: Well Gwen, two years ago Barack Obama warned about the sub prime mortgage crisis. John McCain said shortly after that in December he was surprised there was a sub prime mortgage problem. John McCain while Barack Obama was warning about what we had to do was literally giving an interview to The Wall Street Journal saying that I'm always for cutting regulations. We let Wall Street run wild. John McCain and he's a good man, but John McCain thought the answer is that tried and true Republican response, deregulate, deregulate.
> 
> ...




ok - she has been called on this claim? - how will she respond ? with credibility? honesty maybe? lol - you're kidding 



> PALIN: *I'm still on the tax thing because I want to correct you on that again. And I want to let you know what I did as a mayor and as a governor. And I may not answer the questions that either the moderator or you want to hear, but I'm going to talk straight to the American people *and let them know my track record also. As mayor, every year I was in office I did reduce taxes. I eliminated personal property taxes and eliminated small business inventory taxes and as governor we suspended our state fuel tax. We did all of those things knowing that that is how our economy would be heated up. Now, as for John McCain's adherence to rules and regulations and pushing for even harder and tougher regulations, that is another thing that he is known for though. Look at the tobacco industry. Look at campaign finance reform.


----------



## Doris (4 October 2008)

Calliope said:


> Apparently the words  "attractive, articulate young mother" are an anaethema to you.
> 
> This surprises me because until Doris's revelation I had assumed you were a man. Your avatar being Jane Russell, a busty pinup of the forties misled me.
> 
> I also assume that you and Doris are networking and your put-downs of Palin are coordinated.




First of all, I'm humbled by your altercation which alludes to my alliteration or was this allusive?

But did you mean to say 'anathema'?

Your allegation of Jane Russell alludes to ignorance OR surreptitious malodorous malice.

2020's subtle identification of iconic Katharine depicts Green08 as idolatrous of a woman I have idolized all my life.

Surely you can appreciate that intelligent people can succumb to grumpy old men with exasperation without your executing excremental responses with rudimentary rudeness?

You seem so sad in your denigrating discourses.  Be tentative.  Better still...
Choose to have opinions and discuss issues and related concepts - not personalities who posit.

Or is the sheer joy of shaden freude too addictive? 

Can you reform and refine by refraining from frustrating refluent refractories?


----------



## Calliope (4 October 2008)

Doris said:


> First of all, I'm humbled by your altercation which alludes to my alliteration or was this allusive?
> 
> But did you mean to say 'anathema'?
> 
> ...




I appear to have touched on a sensitive nerve by accident. I have never heard of your icon. I thought she was Jane Russell. You really rave on and your alliteration gimmick is just plain silly. Your outburst has plumbed new depths in nastiness and all because Green thought I was being supportive of Palin. 

Palin may inspire fear and loathing in you. I have no idea why she does this to grumpy old women. She represents  no danger to Obama. You are just wasting your spleen on her. And don't blame me for 2020's inanities.

Get a life.


----------



## Doris (5 October 2008)

Calliope said:


> I appear to have touched on a sensitive nerve by accident. I have never heard of your icon. I thought she was Jane Russell. You really rave on and your alliteration gimmick is just plain silly. Your outburst has plumbed new depths in nastiness and all because Green thought I was being supportive of Palin.
> 
> Palin may inspire fear and loathing in you. I have no idea why she does this to grumpy old women. She represents  no danger to Obama. You are just wasting your spleen on her. And don't blame me for 2020's inanities.




You have never heard of Katharine Hepburn?  

You are insensitive enough to not know why Green08 was offended by your remarks?

Each word I used is profound and contributes to a lesson for you... particularly to be tentative! 

I'm stunned that you interpret, incongruously, that I fear Palin.  
'Loathe' is incongruous too! I find her quite cute and entertaining! 

eg: McCain abandons Michigan as a lost cause to save advertising money for winnable states.
Palin jumps up and emails him that she and Todd will go save the state for him!  Cute! 

Grab a dictionary and you will ascertain that my remarks were coherent and not nasty but objective.

Be tentative.  ... especially before branding 2020's humor as inane.


----------



## Calliope (5 October 2008)

Doris said:


> You are insensitive enough to not know why Green08 was offended by your remarks?
> Each word I used is profound and contributes to a lesson for you... particularly to be tentative!




I think that if Green08 considers that I have offended her in some way she will tell me.  You say "you will find what you seek." You will if you look under rocks.

Don't lecture me. Save it for the classroom.

"Each word I use is profound".  You pompous ass.

For a woman who sets herself up as a political activist, you are remarkably sensitive to criticism.


----------



## wayneL (5 October 2008)

<mod hat on>I know politics can be emotive and a bit of verbal jousting is almost de rigueur, but please don't go over the line into personal abuse. We are getting a bit close to that in these politics threads.

Thanks


----------



## ZzzzDad (5 October 2008)

Calliope said:


> I think that if Green08 considers that I have offended her in some way she will tell me.  You say "you will find what you seek." You will if you look under rocks.
> 
> Don't lecture me. Save it for the classroom.
> 
> ...




For those in mid America, and I presume the equivalent persons in Australia, can you see the irony?  The very people that the left purports to represent - the poor - the middle class - are really looked at with pity and disdain.  "I'm smarter than you, therefore I can look after you better than you can yourself".  That is the attitude of the left.

In reality, it is the working poor and the middle class that keep America and Australia going.  The leftists in Academia really have no clue, just theories that will never work.

Some of us just want to work hard, keep our own money, and tell government elitists to get out of our way.  They are the problem, not the solution to all the messes that we are in today.

Obama and his ilk have never done an honest day's work in their lives.


----------



## Nashezz (5 October 2008)

CALLIOPE,  why don't you go somewhere else to enlighten others with your razor wit and superior knowledge. I am sure you can go post all YOUR inanities and vitriol on a site somewhere where everyone will think your posted crud is actually pearls of wisdom - than you won't have to feel like nobody likes you.

Try http://thenewcurrencylad.blogspot.com/ - here you won't be mentally challenged and you can bask in the knowledge someone else has the same cohesive reasoning as yourself.

Zzz - really? I think you will find that demographically far more 'poor' people vote left than right, which kind of makes your comment silly.


----------



## IFocus (5 October 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> For those in mid America, and I presume the equivalent persons in Australia, can you see the irony?  The very people that the left purports to represent - the poor - the middle class - are really looked at with pity and disdain.  "I'm smarter than you, therefore I can look after you better than you can yourself".  That is the attitude of the left.




In Oz its more about having a fair go and that the system allows that to happen, as for being poor or middle class its not considered a stigma, you don't get respect here just for having money in fact you are likely to be treated with disdain until you prove you are worthy of respect. 



> In reality, it is the working poor and the middle class that keep America and Australia going.  The leftists in Academia really have no clue, just theories that will never work.




You for got to include right wing think tanks



> Some of us just want to work hard, keep our own money, and tell government elitists to get out of our way.  They are the problem, not the solution to all the messes that we are in today.




Maybe you feel this way along with your right to own hand guns etc but the mess has happened on GW's watch



> Obama and his ilk have never done an honest day's work in their lives.




Seems to me he works extremely hard god knows what drives him to do so......


----------



## Green08 (5 October 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> In reality, it is the working poor and the middle class that keep America and Australia going.  The leftists in Academia really have no clue, just theories that will never work.
> 
> Some of us just want to work hard, keep our own money, and tell government elitists to get out of our way.  They are the problem, not the solution to all the messes that we are in today.
> 
> Obama and his ilk have never done an honest day's work in their lives.




There are alot of assumptions in your statement. 
Have you been to Australia?
What makes you think I am wealthy?  
What is an honest day’s work?  
Do all poor and middle class work hard every day to improve their fellow man's environment?  Are they all dedicated parents as well?

If you’re so upset with the system why don't you run for President!  There is nothing holding you back to represent your people except waiting another 4 years, then go for it!  In that time you could begin campaigning and gathering like minded people for a ZzzzDad movement in the USA. ZzzzDad for President - doesn't sound hard, could be alot of work but I believe you can do it!
What will your foreign policy be? Are you ready to speak and resolve issues as President globally? 
Make sure you cover all bases with knowledge you don't need the elite just books and reading, turn off the TV and learn. Easy as Pie!!!!


----------



## Calliope (5 October 2008)

Nashezz said:


> CALLIOPE,  why don't you go somewhere else to enlighten others with your razor wit and superior knowledge. I am sure you can go post all YOUR inanities and vitriol on a site somewhere where everyone will think your posted crud is actually pearls of wisdom - than you won't have to feel like nobody likes you.
> 
> Try http://thenewcurrencylad.blogspot.com/ - here you won't be mentally challenged and you can bask in the knowledge someone else has the same cohesive reasoning as yourself.
> 
> Zzz - really? I think you will find that demographically far more 'poor' people vote left than right, which kind of makes your comment silly.




You have certainly worked youself into a state. Your are almost incoherent. It could be lack of sleep again.


----------



## Julia (5 October 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> For those in mid America, and I presume the equivalent persons in Australia, can you see the irony?  The very people that the left purports to represent - the poor - the middle class - are really looked at with pity and disdain.  "I'm smarter than you, therefore I can look after you better than you can yourself".  That is the attitude of the left.
> 
> In reality, it is the working poor and the middle class that keep America and Australia going.  The leftists in Academia really have no clue, just theories that will never work.
> 
> Some of us just want to work hard, keep our own money, and tell government elitists to get out of our way.  They are the problem, not the solution to all the messes that we are in today.



ZzzzDad, I was reading the above and thinking that, although you were exaggerating, I could see why you say that.  I'd say perhaps a better point might be that much of the Left dogma promoted by the so called intelligentsia comes from an ideological base rather than one of practical experience and as a result lacks some validity.




> Obama and his ilk have never done an honest day's work in their lives.




But then you made this utterly silly statement, and you lost me completely.

Why is it that when some people discuss politics all sense of objectivity is lost?   The fans on both sides seem to have elevated their political heroes to the status of Gods fergawdsake!


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (5 October 2008)

Nashezz said:


> CALLIOPE,  why don't you go somewhere else to enlighten others with your razor wit and superior knowledge. I am sure you can go post all YOUR inanities and vitriol on a site somewhere where everyone will think your posted crud is actually pearls of wisdom - than you won't have to feel like nobody likes you.
> 
> Try http://thenewcurrencylad.blogspot.com/ - here you won't be mentally challenged and you can bask in the knowledge someone else has the same cohesive reasoning as yourself.
> 
> Zzz - really? I think you will find that demographically far more 'poor' people vote left than right, which kind of makes your comment silly.




Nash mate, as I've said to you before , folk like you and Calliope probably have more in common with each other than you would believe. You both care enough about the world to think and argue about it. 

I have been fortunate enough to know many very poor and indigent people and also many people in relatively high office from both sides of politics. Most are decent people.

So lighten up mate.

One point I would make. The poor do generally vote for the left, but will change if given a good short term economic gain. 

The problem with the vote of the poor is that through circumstances on the day, low morale or education, substance abuse or adversity, they will not vote in an electoral system like the US where they are not compelled to vote.

gg


----------



## ZzzzDad (5 October 2008)

Julia said:


> .
> 
> But then you made this utterly silly statement, and you lost me completely.
> 
> Why is it that when some people discuss politics all sense of objectivity is lost?   The fans on both sides seem to have elevated their political heroes to the status of Gods fergawdsake!




Julia - thanks for the response.  I said that because Obama never has done "hard work" in his life.  He has worked as a "community organizer" for a few years, and then went back to school (Harvard), then went to Academia as a law professor, then to the state senate in Illinois.  

A job as a rabble rousing "community organizer", and as a law professor, is not a hard days work.  Not the kind that I am talking about.  He does not know about small business, or what it is like to work in a service job or a manufacturing job, etc.


----------



## ZzzzDad (5 October 2008)

Green08 said:


> There are alot of assumptions in your statement.
> Have you been to Australia?




No, but I've been to over 40 countries.  Most of the European countries, including Russia back in the 1980s.  I've been to Egypt, Israel, China, the Philippines, Japan, Taiwan, Canada, Mexico, Jamaica, Costa Rica. So, I'm not an insulated American by any means.  So, what is your point in asking?  My second son has an infatuation with all things Australian, so, I promised him that we would make a trip there in the next few years or so, before he grows up - he is 11.   



> What makes you think I am wealthy?



Never said you were.



> What is an honest day’s work?



Work that involves making things, growing things, building things, etc., I think you know what I meant by that.



> Do all poor and middle class work hard every day to improve their fellow man's environment?  Are they all dedicated parents as well?



Never said ALL - some are lazy bums that want handouts, etc.  But most, in America at least, work pretty hard.



> If you’re so upset with the system why don't you run for President!  There is nothing holding you back to represent your people except waiting another 4 years, then go for it!  In that time you could begin campaigning and gathering like minded people for a ZzzzDad movement in the USA. ZzzzDad for President - doesn't sound hard, could be alot of work but I believe you can do it!
> What will your foreign policy be? Are you ready to speak and resolve issues as President globally?
> Make sure you cover all bases with knowledge you don't need the elite just books and reading, turn off the TV and learn. Easy as Pie!!!!




I don't have any desire to be President.  I'm living a good middle class life, with 4 great children, and a great wife.  We work hard, have NO debt, except for our mortgage, which is less than 3 years from being paid off.  We are living the good life, because of our work ethic.  This election is so important, because the left is going to socialize America, and I don't want my children to grow up under a socialist government.  I'm not concerned about myself at all - it is concern for my children that makes me so intense about this election.  I want them to grow up in the America I grew up in.


----------



## Doris (5 October 2008)

Tina Fey as Palin on the VP debate - Saturday night Live 

Queen Latifah is Gwen Ifill. 

You have to laugh at Biden's character too!

 youtube clips have been removed due to NBC copyright claims.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/04/tina-fey-as-sarah-palin-i_n_131964.html 

Scroll down a page to the video clip...


----------



## rederob (5 October 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> This election is so important, because the left is going to socialize America, and I don't want my children to grow up under a socialist government.  I'm not concerned about myself at all - it is concern for my children that makes me so intense about this election.  I want them to grow up in the America I grew up in.



It's too late.
The "right" has kicked-off the socialist ball and is scoring more own-goals than you poke at a pitbull.


----------



## Green08 (5 October 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> I'm not concerned about myself at all - it is concern for my children that makes me so intense about this election.  I want them to grow up in the America I grew up in.




Visiting over 40 countries is valuable experience.  What is the ethnic community of your suburb?  Could you live with a Muslim next to you?  I come from a family of many cultures tolerance and understanding is wonderful. 

Correct you never asked if I was wealthy.  However you alluded to Obama supporters being elite, educated and wealthy. That depends on how you value education and wealth.  Educated and concerned for the future can easily translate to the poor or less educated in their environment that may fully support the left.  The left from  -..................................+ hugh infill.

Thank you for clarifying what an honest day’s work is from your perspective. I do believe to be at the top of your field will involve some serious time in education plumber, electrician, lawyer or Doctor. Do you realize that everything you bought and use was designed and more than likely engineered -to function for you.  Are you saying that people that design bridges, buildings, environmental saving elements etc are a waste of money.  Doctors are a waste of money?  Stock brokers are a waste of money?  You wouldn't have a house (you would like if you made it yourself from local materials) or car if the stock market and associated industries didn't work.

Yes there are lazy bums about and no-one can stop that apathetic attitude.

Seriously, that is great you love your wife and kids, you have no debt and live within your means, however the world is not the same.  Climate change is a huge issue, I would put it before money.

Work ethic is essential.  Do you enjoy movies? - actors are mostly full time artist. Artist of design make your visuals for computers from google to games.  Many fields may not produce 'goods' but need government funding to research life saving elements from cardiac to microscopic elements like hydrogen.

This election is very important to you, your children and globally.  I believe that it is essential to have an educated, articulate, open minded person representing you, not some one you may feel comfortable about but can begin to lead the USA on a path to healing.  We are at global crisis financially, food production and delivery, nuclear, religious, war, energy (drill baby drill) is not the answer.   You have enormous talent in the USA for alternative energy look at that and who really supports them. 

I have tremendous concerns for my 2 children however I am fully aware they can't grow up in my lifestyle.  They face new challenges in every dimension.  I would honestly say that given the future now and the predicaments they face and will have to bear and solve as a result our past greed in the last few decades, I would not have had children at all.

Why should they have the burden of past generations mistakes?  They should be able to be happy and enjoy their lives not constantly battling to over come climate change, war etc.

I know that who ever is elected will not be able to solve the problem in 4 - 8 years.  Of course you can see the blame game playing out now without a crystal ball.  

I respect your answers and beliefs.  Not agreeing with them does not make you or me a better human.


----------



## Julia (5 October 2008)

Great post, Green.

Goodonya for offering your views, with explanations, in a reasonable and respectful way.   So much better without the personal insults and name calling.  Everyone wins.


----------



## Nashezz (5 October 2008)

Calliope said:


> You have certainly worked youself into a state. Your are almost incoherent. It could be lack of sleep again.




I'm not surprised you found it incoherent. Some 3 syllable words and all.

GG you are right to an extent, but I could never claim to 'share' too much with someone that has no capacity left to learn or listen, and who has an overriding dogma of fear and loathing.


----------



## Calliope (6 October 2008)

Nachezz, it is just a waste of time stalking your class enemies. And it demeans you more than them.

This is diverting you from your more noble aspirations of helping the poor and saving the world from global warming.


----------



## ZzzzDad (6 October 2008)

Green08 said:


> Visiting over 40 countries is valuable experience.  What is the ethnic community of your suburb?  Could you live with a Muslim next to you?  I come from a family of many cultures tolerance and understanding is wonderful.




My neighborhood in Nashville is an inside ring suburb.  It is not one of the wealthier outside ring suburbs.  My neighborhood of Nashville has many Iraqi Kurds.  In fact, out of about a thousand or so homes in my neigborhood association, there are about 150 Kurdish owned houses.  My neighbor across the street (with his McCain/Palin yard sign) is an Iraqi Kurd that has his own computer repair business.  Three neighbors down the street are Kurds.  These are some of the best neighbors I could ever want.  They love America, and believe it or not, love GWB and McCain/Palin.  Also, there are many blacks and Asians and Hispanics in my neighborhood.  In fact, I would say that at least half the houses are minority owned.  As soon as a house goes up for sale, a new Kurdish family snaps it up.  

Oh, forgot to mention (gasp) there are also minorities inhabiting my own house (oh my goodness).  My wife is from the Philippines, and my own children are mixed race.  And, my wife's parents live with us too...  I'm a minority in my own house.  LOL

We visit the Philippines every two years and stay for a month.  We know what the rest of the world is like, and we live our lives with the concern for other people, and their plight.  





> Thank you for clarifying what an honest day’s work is from your perspective. I do believe to be at the top of your field will involve some serious time in education plumber, electrician, lawyer or Doctor. Do you realize that everything you bought and use was designed and more than likely engineered -to function for you.  Are you saying that people that design bridges, buildings, environmental saving elements etc are a waste of money.  Doctors are a waste of money?  Stock brokers are a waste of money?  You wouldn't have a house (you would like if you made it yourself from local materials) or car if the stock market and associated industries didn't work.



  ?????  Don't think my words above would disagree with this at all, except the lawyers.







> Work ethic is essential.  Do you enjoy movies? - actors are mostly full time artist. Artist of design make your visuals for computers from google to games.  Many fields may not produce 'goods' but need government funding to research life saving elements from cardiac to microscopic elements like hydrogen.



Again I don't see where anything I said would indicate that these fields do no involve work.  They are making, designing, building things that are useful and needed.



> This election is very important to you, your children and globally.  I believe that it is essential to have an educated, articulate, open minded person representing you, not some one you may feel comfortable about but can begin to lead the USA on a path to healing.  We are at global crisis financially, food production and delivery, nuclear, religious, war, energy (drill baby drill) is not the answer.   You have enormous talent in the USA for alternative energy look at that and who really supports them.




I believe that John McCain and Sarah Palin are very open minded people.  Perhaps you don't agree with many of their stands on the issues, but they are less likely to take your rights away from you than those people on the left.  The left is very scary, they start with good intentions, but in the end, they wind up taking away more and more of your rights and freedoms.  

Alternative energy would be nice, but it is FAR AWAY from being feasible for the biggest part of our energy needs.  That is just a fact.  We must bridge the gap in technology with "drill baby drill".  We have no other choice.  I wish we did, but it is not even close to reality.   



> I have tremendous concerns for my 2 children however I am fully aware they can't grow up in my lifestyle.  They face new challenges in every dimension.  I would honestly say that given the future now and the predicaments they face and will have to bear and solve as a result our past greed in the last few decades, I would not have had children at all.




Every generation thinks that the problems ahead are too difficult.  But, the human race is ingenious, and always finds a way to get through it and thrive.  Our future generations will be no different.  

My own family has its own challenges, for instance, my second son  has Asperger's.  (He is the one that has an Australia obsession - it used to be Greek mythology.)  He is pretty high functioning, but has difficulties in school with making friends.  He is quite eccentric, and has some problems fitting in.  Luckily he has found one good friend in his class that is very much like him.  I really have concerns about if he will be able to survive on his own when he becomes an adult, but, I have faith, and three other good children that love and look out for him, so I think his future is brighter than I imagine it sometimes.  It will all work out.




> Why should they have the burden of past generations mistakes?  They should be able to be happy and enjoy their lives not constantly battling to over come climate change, war etc.




I honestly believe, as many very competent scientists believe, that climate change is cyclical.  Perhaps a little man made, but, before we can blink an eye, and the sunspot cycles come and go, we will be in for a change in the other direction.  We only have historical evidence to prove that the earth heats, and the earth cools.  There is very little man can do to change it either way.  I know you disagree with this, but I can name some very prominent scientists that believe the way I do.



> I know that who ever is elected will not be able to solve the problem in 4 - 8 years.  Of course you can see the blame game playing out now without a crystal ball.
> 
> I respect your answers and beliefs.  Not agreeing with them does not make you or me a better human.




Agree - none of us knows everything.  You could be right, I could be right, but I suspect the answer is somewhere in between.


----------



## noirua (6 October 2008)

Sarah Palin has to carry on trying to bite the legs of the Democrats. Is there another way for her?


----------



## ZzzzDad (6 October 2008)

noirua said:


> Sarah Palin has to carry on trying to bite the legs of the Democrats. Is there another way for her?




She has to do that.  The press has been so negative against Palin, and has let Obama get away scot free on EVERYTHING.

Just a few points about the media.  Can you imagine how much of a commotion there would have been if Obama's email account had been hacked into by the son of a Republican state Senator from Tennessee?  Well, a few weeks ago, Sarah Palin's email account was hacked into by the son of a DEMOCRAT state Senator from Tennessee.  Where is the story?  It has totally disappeared.

Can you imagine if Sarah Palin had travelled to Pakistan when she was in her 20's on an Indonesian passport?  Can you imagine how the media would blow this up into a major issue.  In fact, the BIG issue about her is that she never had a passport until last year.  But Barack Obama had an Indonesian passport when he was an adult, and the media could care less.

Tony Rezko, etc., etc., the media could care less.  If Sarah Palin had associations with a known criminal, would the media hide it?  NO Way.

Evan Thomas, the liberal (in the American definition) editor of Newsweek bragged a few years ago - on the record - that the media is worth 10 percentage points for the Democrats in every election.  He was right.  If the media would do its homework on BOTH candidates - McCain and Obama - Obama would not even have won the Democrat nomination.  This election would be Hillary vs. McCain.


----------



## 2020hindsight (6 October 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> .. Barack Obama had an Indonesian passport when he was an adult, and the media could care less...




I'm guessing Governator Schwarzenneger had an Austrian passport once ...  Hey isn't that where Hitler came from ?  

And he even spent time in jail ... !  Admits to forgetting things even !!

(PS at least he thinks green - more than can be said for Palin.)  



> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_Schwarzenegger
> Early adulthood
> Schwarzenegger served in the Austrian army in 1965, to fulfill the one year of service required at the time of all 18-year-old Austrian males.[5][13] He won the Junior Mr. Europe contest in 1965.[12] *Schwarzenegger went AWOL during basic training so that he could take part in the competition, and spent a week in an army jail*:
> 
> ...


----------



## ZzzzDad (6 October 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> I'm guessing Governator Schwarzenneger had an Austrian passport once ...  Hey isn't that where Hitler came from ?
> 
> And he even spent time in jail ... !  Admits to forgetting things even !!
> 
> (PS at least he thinks green - more than can be said for Palin.)




Arnold's not running for President, and is constitutionally prohibited from it, because he is not native born.

The relevance in the case of Obama is that Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship, so, the only way for Obama to have gotten an Indonesian passport would have been that he would have had to renounce his American citizenship.  If he did that, he would not be eligible to run for President.  But the media is only curious about Palin, Obama they don't even try to investigate.

I'm not talking about when he was a child, different matter.  This ocurred when he was an adult.  Get it?


----------



## justjohn (6 October 2008)

Old Arnie has something in common with Kevin07 ,they both forget things when it's convenient(bar-lap dancers)


----------



## Miner (6 October 2008)

If I am an American and believe my eyes then I will vote for Sarah Palin.

It is because  - she is gorgeous, sexy, would be grandmother (who cares with her daughter being pregnant at 16 without with being married - we are used to see it any way and in England - see Naomi Campbell - a gorgeous model and grandmother), winks with inviting eyes , a bit idiot (that is okay for any American any way) compared with 

an old McCain (with almost use by date), 

a confused Obama (namesake of Osama worries me) and 

the VP candidate with Obama (sorry even to remember his name.


----------



## Aussiejeff (6 October 2008)

Miner said:


> If I am an American and believe my eyes then I will vote for Sarah Palin.
> 
> It is because  - she is [size=+2]gorgeous, sexy,[/size] would be grandmother (who cares with her daughter being pregnant at 16 without with being married - we are used to see it any way and in England - see Naomi Campbell - a gorgeous model and grandmother), [size=+2]winks with inviting eyes[/size], [size=+2]a bit idiot [/size](that is okay for any American any way) compared with an old McCain (with almost use by date), a confused Obama (namesake of Osama worries me) and the VP candidate with Obama (sorry even to remember his name.




*Cringe*

Thanks for that.

Now I can just imagine all these redneck good 'ol boys chanting...

[size=+1] OH YEAAAH BABY!!! RAH, RAH,[/size] [size=+2] SA-RAH!![/size], [size=+1] YUMMY-YUMMY [/size][size=+2]HOCKEY-MUMMY!![/size]

Looks like you hit the nail on the head....


----------



## Bushman (6 October 2008)

Aussiejeff said:


> *Cringe*
> 
> Thanks for that.
> 
> ...




LOL, they will have to change the way they poll in the US election: 

'So who wood you vote for in the forth-coming election?' 

Bit stiff on gramps, gramps and the terrorist hey.


----------



## Doris (6 October 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> Can you imagine if Sarah Palin had travelled to Pakistan when she was in her 20's on an Indonesian passport? Can you imagine how the media would blow this up into a major issue. In fact, the BIG issue about her is that she never had a passport until last year. But *Barack Obama had an Indonesian passport when he was an adult*, and the media could care less.






ZzzzDad said:


> Arnold's not running for President, and is constitutionally prohibited from it, because he is not native born.
> 
> The relevance in the case of Obama is that *Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship, so, the only way for Obama to have gotten an Indonesian passport would have been that he would have had to renounce his American citizenship.*  If he did that, he would not be eligible to run for President.  But the media is only curious about Palin, Obama they don't even try to investigate.
> 
> I'm not talking about when he was a child, different matter.  This ocurred when he was an adult.  Get it?




You are correct about Arnie.

But where did you obtain your 'misinformation' about Barack?



> Senator Obama admits that he had a duel citizenship of both United States and Kenya. He said his father registered him at birth. He said that he stopped being a citizen at the age of 21 because *he never claimed it*.





Obama never had an Indonesian passport!  What makes you say he did?

This is typical Republican propaganda that hopes mud will stick - make some smoke and hope fire is seen!



> Dual Nationality
> November 22nd, *2006*, in News & Issues, by Patung
> 
> *Children born of mixed Indonesian and foreign parentage can now obtain dual nationality*.
> ...



http://www.indonesiamatters.com/830/dual-nationality/

For sanity's sake use some common sense and start looking at policies and attributes required of a president and refrain from the faux personality attacks.


----------



## ZzzzDad (6 October 2008)

> Dual Nationality
> November 22nd, 2006, in News & Issues, by Patung
> 
> Children born of mixed Indonesian and foreign parentage can now obtain dual nationality.
> ...



What you have just quoted was effective November 22nd, 2006.  His travel on an Indonesian passport was when he was in his 20s, back in the 1980s.  So, your post has no bearing on the matter I pointed out.

You and 2020 have posted so many falsehoods about John McCain, over and over and over again.  This story is just now starting to be investigated.  Let's see where it falls.  Why didn't he travel on his American passport?  Why hasn't he released his passport records?  What is he hiding?  No one has ever asked him directly if he travelled to Pakistan on an Indonesian passport.


----------



## Julia (6 October 2008)

Umm, would someone be kind enough to explain to me why this stuff matters, i.e. whether a couple of decades or more ago Obama went to Pakistan on an Indonesian passport, if indeed he did?


----------



## Largesse (6 October 2008)




----------



## Doris (6 October 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> What you have just quoted was effective November 22nd, 2006.  His travel on an Indonesian passport was when he was in his 20s, back in the 1980s.  So, your post has no bearing on the matter I pointed out.
> 
> You and 2020 have posted so many falsehoods about John McCain, over and over and over again.  This story is just now starting to be investigated.  Let's see where it falls.  Why didn't he travel on his American passport?  Why hasn't he released his passport records?  What is he hiding?  No one has ever asked him directly if he travelled to Pakistan on an Indonesian passport.




I'll type this slowly...

Dual passports for Indonesia did not exist until two years ago.

Obama went to Pakistan with a Pakistani college friend and stayed at his home.

Julia is right.

Enough!


----------



## Green08 (6 October 2008)

Doris said:


> I'll type this slowly...
> 
> Dual passports for Indonesia did not exist until two years ago.
> 
> ...




Thank you Doris!  Now lets get back to the point of the thread

What are their Aims, How they will achieve them.  I am getting tired of the repetitious slander, insinuations and lies which seems to be consuming precious little time they have left.  Not impressed with a rally Palin did and said I read the NY Review and those around her booed. I wished they would read things, compare and think outside the circle. No paper is perfect and what maybe 'headline new' today can change tomorrow on circumstance.

As for that photo supplied by Largesse she needs to work on core muscle strength.  It actually is a rather pathetic pose.  I didn't realize this campaign was about breasts and butts.  Can you imagine if they had done that with McCain – actually don’t go there.

Hillary is versed on history, proven progress to benefit her country, decorous, and gracious.  When she campaigned non of this shallow pr0n orientated smut circled.  Sure there were words but she has shown her higher ground and risen above it to support the ideals she believes in though the voice of Obama.

The irony is the USA is the biggest pr0n user but going topless on a USA beach will end up with you being fined. Where I live topless is the norm and even the kids don’t bat an eyelid.  It is very helpful prior to breastfeeding to strengthen the nipple so it has less chance of cracking whilst feeding.


----------



## 2020hindsight (6 October 2008)

Green08 said:


> Where I live topless is the norm and even the kids don’t bat an eyelid.  It is very helpful prior to breastfeeding to strengthen the nipple so it has less chance of cracking whilst feeding.



:topic holy bra-straps batman, learn summit new every day, lol


----------



## Doris (6 October 2008)

Miner said:


> It is because  - she is gorgeous, sexy, would be grandmother (who cares with her daughter being pregnant at 16 without with being married - we are used to see it any way and in England -




Her daughter Bristol is 17. She's 18 in mid October I believe.
It's interesting that Palin's son was born almost seven months after she eloped.
Twentieth wedding anniversary was on 29 August; Track born on 20 April 1989...
No wonder she preaches abstinence!


----------



## Aussiejeff (6 October 2008)

Doris said:


> Her daughter Bristol is 17. She's 18 in mid October I believe.
> It's interesting that Palin's son was born almost seven months after she eloped.
> Twentieth wedding anniversary was on 29 August; Track born on 20 April 1989...
> No wonder she preaches *abstinence!*




Oh.

Doesn't *ABSTINENCE* make the heart grow fonder??


----------



## Nashezz (6 October 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> I believe that John McCain and Sarah Palin are very open minded people.  Perhaps you don't agree with many of their stands on the issues, but they are less likely to take your rights away from you than those people on the left.  The left is very scary, they start with good intentions, but in the end, they wind up taking away more and more of your rights and freedoms.



Provide evidence Zzzz. The only governments I remember taking 'freedoms' away in recent memory were conservative. Why don't you ask civil libertarians what they think of the Bush record on freedom policies, eg the Patriot Act. You can't really, possibly, actually believe what you are saying, can you? 

What about the rights and freedoms of those in Guantanamo - only US and UK citizens such as John Walker Lindh were (eventually) afforded proper jurisprudence - meanwhile others (including Australians) had to endure a joke of a trial without proper recourse to the legal system - and for Australian David Hicks that joke of a trial was only held after five years sitting in Guantanamo. Why is that a US citizen deserves access to a proper legal system but those of other nations do not?? We are even supposed to be your allies.




ZzzzDad said:


> I honestly believe, as many *very competent scientists believe*, that climate change is cyclical.  Perhaps a little man made, but, before we can blink an eye, and the sunspot cycles come and go, we will be in for a change in the other direction.  We only have historical evidence to prove that the earth heats, and the earth cools.  There is very little man can do to change it either way.  I know you disagree with this, but *I can name some very prominent scientists that believe the way I do*.




Name these pre-eminent scientists. One of our pre-eminent scientists/climatologists was named Australian-of-the-Year here last year. He knew of no scientific article disproving man-made climate change that had been peer reviewed. Do you?

We all know climate change is cyclical - just because it is, doesn't mean that we aren't causing a massive effect by dumping a ****eload of extra CO2 and other pollution in to the environment in, what is for the Earth, a very very short period of time. Have a look at a graph of population growth over the last 2000 years. Consider that same graph represents to some correlative extent, deforestation, and pollutant increases. I don't think you need to be a rocket scientist to arrive at an obvious conclusion from looking at it.

Here is the population graph
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Population_curve.svg


----------



## 2020hindsight (6 October 2008)

Aussiejeff said:


> Oh.
> 
> Doesn't *ABSTINENCE* make the heart grow fonder??



yep like that quote ...
"don't look now, but I think I'm falling in love with you" 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPClWkEdES8  "Abstain With Me" by Roy Zimmerman


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (6 October 2008)

Doris said:


> Her daughter Bristol is 17. She's 18 in mid October I believe.
> It's interesting that Palin's son was born almost seven months after she eloped.
> Twentieth wedding anniversary was on 29 August; Track born on 20 April 1989...
> No wonder she preaches abstinence!




Doris I do hope you are not a godbotherer.

You sound a bit like those dried up old believers who used label kids born before their parents were married as bastards and who counted the months from a wedding to a birth of young men and women caught in the family way.

The Palins if they were Democrats and aborted a few children along the way from each generation would have been hailed by the left as battlers who should be afforded the right to choose, and lauded for their humble backgrounds. 

There is one judgement for Republican kids in love and another for Democrats' methinks, in this thread.



gg


----------



## 2020hindsight (6 October 2008)

yeah but gg, Palin is the one pretending to hold the moral high ground 

... and resisting sex education


----------



## Doris (6 October 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> yeah but gg, Palin is the one pretending to hold the moral high ground
> 
> ... and resisting sex education




I don't think GG knows much about Sarah Palin.

He should read this (his) thread dontcha think. 

GG - Palin claims she believes in abstinence and that this is the only sex ed that should be done in schools!
... as do the millions of evangelical voters she was chosen for!
... as does McCain.

Yet her 17 year old daughter obviously did not abstain - - nor did she!!
This is hypocritical!  She is a hypocrite! 

And did you know some of the money she saved Wasilla when she was mayor (that she boasted about in the debate) was to make rape victims pay for their own rape kit - $250 to $1200 each - needed to prove rape so they could obtain an abortion - which she doesn't believe in either... even for victims of incest!  When the State legislature heard about it they made it law that Wasilla (and ONE other town that was also making victims pay) had to pay for the rape kits.  
Imagine having to pay for the fingerprinting kit if your house were robbed! 

The 'theory' seems to be if women couldn't afford the kit they would not become a rape statistic.
... fewer rapes under her watch - as well as the town saving money.

She sacked the police commissioner at the request of the hotels and the NRA because he was fighting to have the bar-closing time reduced from 5am to 2am and would not budge.  Why?  Because Alaska has the highest rate of violence against women in the US and most of this occurred due to drunkenness in the early hours.

With $billions in surplus, as governor, she would not fund safe-houses for women... she got a committee to 'look into it'.

btw... I fully agree that no aspersions should ever be placed on children born out of wedlock!


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (6 October 2008)

Doris said:


> Her daughter Bristol is 17. She's 18 in mid October I believe.
> It's interesting that Palin's son was born almost seven months after she eloped.
> Twentieth wedding anniversary was on 29 August; Track born on 20 April 1989...
> No wonder she preaches abstinence!






Garpal Gumnut said:


> Doris I do hope you are not a godbotherer.
> 
> You sound a bit like those dried up old believers who used label kids born before their parents were married as bastards and who counted the months from a wedding to a birth of young men and women caught in the family way.
> 
> ...






2020hindsight said:


> yeah but gg, Palin is the one pretending to hold the moral high ground
> 
> ... and resisting sex education





2020 mate, the politically correct Left are more than capable of taking over from the old fashioned godbotherers in lecturing, and hectoring the common people on what they should and should not do. 

The language is the same, the content is the same and the methods are the same. Engender fear and you will keep the people down. 

Folk like Sarah Palin can cut through all the nonsense, with common sense and acceeptance of human frailty, and thats what upsets the political class. 

gg


----------



## Julia (6 October 2008)

I'm starting to feel a bit nauseated reading this thread.  This isn't even our election, folks.   Do we really have to get into this level of commentary, none of which is relevant to the current global situation?


----------



## Nashezz (6 October 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> 2020 mate, the politically correct Left are more than capable of taking over from the old fashioned godbotherers in lecturing, and hectoring the common people on what they should and should not do.
> 
> The language is the same, the content is the same and the methods are the same. Engender fear and you will keep the people down.
> 
> ...




Thats funny GG. I seem to remember that it is the right that's been encouraging fear. Be alert but not alarmed and all that. I mean we were encouraged to fear refugees, to fear terrorists, to fear Saddam Hussein, to fear dole bludgers stealing all your hard earned tax, to fear China, etc. Must just be the view from your backyard.

Also if you actually listen to Sarah Palin you will see that common sense is just one of many things she doesn't have.


----------



## nunthewiser (6 October 2008)

Julia said:


> I'm starting to feel a bit nauseated reading this thread.  This isn't even our election, folks.   Do we really have to get into this level of commentary, none of which is relevant to the current global situation?




.....um ...... dont read thread?....


----------



## nunthewiser (6 October 2008)

and i only read it to see if anyone got any norty pics yet


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (6 October 2008)

Nashezz said:


> Thats funny GG. I seem to remember that it is the right that's been encouraging fear. Be alert but not alarmed and all that. I mean we were encouraged to fear refugees, to fear terrorists, to fear Saddam Hussein, to fear dole bludgers stealing all your hard earned tax, to fear China, etc. Must just be the view from your backyard.
> 
> Also if you actually listen to Sarah Palin you will see that common sense is just one of many things she doesn't have.




Yes I guess you are right , it depends on your backyard, your life experiences and your perspective. a good point Nash mate.

gg


----------



## Julia (6 October 2008)

nunthewiser said:


> .....um ...... dont read thread?....



Yes, you're right.  Except I'm actually interested in the relevant stuff about Ms Palin.


----------



## Doris (6 October 2008)

Debbie Ford - on The Seductress: 

This week, I sat glued to my TV watching the Vice Presidential debate. Within three minutes and after the first wink, I became fascinated once again with Sarah Palin. I asked myself, "What is the deal with this woman? Why is she winking at me? Is she flirting with me?" I had to take a deep breath because I noticed this queasy feeling growing in the pit of my stomach.

Then it flashed before me. All of the sudden, it dawned on me that Sarah Palin is the living expression of *The Seductress*, one of the 20 masks, the faces of the wounded ego, that I outline in my latest book. 

In _Why Good People Do Bad Things_, I suggest that those who don the mask of The Seductress are after making themselves feel better about who they are by getting whatever they might be after. Birthed out of the fear that they are not good enough, loved enough, or smart enough, they search until they find suitable targets to trap in their energetic webs -- in the case of Sarah Palin, first the citizens of the great state of Alaska and now the entire country.

I consider The Seductress a predator because her main goal is to feed on the self-esteem of others in order to soothe her own emotional wounds. The Seductress literally throws out an energetic hook by being kind, loving, interested, sexual and, in this case, folksy -- luring her victims closer, all the while planning her next move. 

In my book, "dangerous, poisonous, and venomous" are the qualities I use to describe The Seductress because her main attack is disguised in love and, in this instance, service. "I am going to tell you everything you ever wanted to hear if you just make me the next Vice President of the United States of America."

This is a time to dissect who Sarah Palin is -- her views, her experience and how she lives her life. We must take off her very hip glasses (*not her clothes, gentlemen!*) to see what's hidden there. 

Rather than choosing to reflect the brilliance, the smarts, the power, or the merit she must obviously possess, she winks and flirts, reinforcing all the things for which women are mocked and not taken seriously in the political arena. Can you even imagine powerful female leaders like Indira Gandhi, Golda Meir, or Margaret Thatcher winking at an audience?


----------



## blablabla (7 October 2008)

Doris, you ask _"What is the deal with this woman? Why is she winking at me? Is she flirting with me?" _. 

My guess is that Palin flirting with McCain could be the reason why McCain selected her to be his running mate. There's no fool like an old fool.


----------



## ZzzzDad (8 October 2008)

Interesting comments from noted American feminist (and Obama supporter) Camille Paglia:

Question to Paglia



> As I see it, the Palin Effect is a double-headed hydra. On one side you have Todd Palin, who is clearly a vibrant, macho force in his family’s life. Just as clearly, he has effectively embraced the role as a primary caregiver. What does it say that he and Sarah have a mutually aggrandizing partnership/marriage? A successful professional woman who embraces a masculine male rather than castrate him? Heaven forfend! Personally I see it as the benign (and noble) conclusion of the feminist movement. I guess fish don’t need bicycles, but some of them want one. And they’d rather it come with some cojones.
> 
> Discussing the Sarah Palin effect is quickly becoming a national psychosis, to which I doubt I could add much. The only thing I haven’t seen discussed is a comparison between her popularity and what Rush Limbaugh hilariously and intuitively called Bill Clinton’s “Arousal Gap." I think we’re seeing that Todd Palin isn’t the only man’s man out there who has a healthy appreciation for a strong member of the opposite sex. Here is another benign and admirable consequence of the feminist movement.
> 
> ...




Response from Paglia:




> Yes, both Todd and Sarah Palin, whom most people in the U.S. and abroad had never even heard of until six weeks ago, have emerged as powerful new symbols of a revived contemporary feminism. That the macho Todd, with his champion athleticism and working-class cred, can so amiably cradle babies and care for children is a huge step forward in American sexual symbolism.
> 
> Although nothing will sway my vote for Obama, I continue to enjoy Sarah Palin's performance on the national stage. During her vice-presidential debate last week with Joe Biden (whose conspiratorial smiles with moderator Gwen Ifill were outrageous and condescending toward his opponent), I laughed heartily at Palin's digs and slams and marveled at the way she slowly took over the entire event. I was sorry when it ended! But Biden wasn't -- judging by his Gore-like sighs and his slow sinking like a punctured blimp. Of course Biden won on points, but TV (a visual medium) never cares about that.
> 
> ...




Give Governor Palin her due, she is a profoundly impressive woman.


----------



## mayk (9 October 2008)

Lol!!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5875905479354298359&vt=lf&hl=en


----------



## Doris (9 October 2008)

mayk said:


> Lol!!
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5875905479354298359&vt=lf&hl=en




Thanks Mayk! lol...

At last someone has the temerity to challenge Palin as a politician seeking a high position! 
Onya Olbermann!

GG... click on pause and let the video stream... then your poor Telstra connection will let you watch it.
 - open another browser page to use while you wait. (ctrl t)
 - worth the wait.


----------



## ZzzzDad (9 October 2008)

Betcha don't hear about *this* on Olbermann's rantfest:

*Lawmaker's son indicted in Palin e-mail hacking*

By DOUGLASS K. DANIEL, Associated Press Writer 
Oct. 8, 2008



> WASHINGTON - A federal grand jury has indicted the son of a Democratic Tennessee state lawmaker in connection with the hacking of the e-mail account of Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin.
> 
> David Kernell, 20, of Knoxville, Tenn., the son of state Rep. Mike Kernell, was scheduled to be arraigned Wednesday before U.S. Magistrate Judge C. Clifford Shirley, according to a statement from the Justice Department.
> 
> ...



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081008/ap_on_el_pr/palin_hacked


----------



## Nashezz (9 October 2008)

Umm what has that got to do with anything Zzzz?

Yes her email was hacked and yes it happened to be a democrat lawmakers son. And?

It's no reflection on anyone but the person that did it.


----------



## ZzzzDad (9 October 2008)

Nashezz said:


> Umm what has that got to do with anything Zzzz?
> 
> Yes her email was hacked and yes it happened to be a democrat lawmakers son. And?
> 
> It's no reflection on anyone but the person that did it.




It is the mindset of the deranged Democrats that allowed this to happen.

Now, imagine if Obama's email was hacked by the son of Republican lawmaker?  You don't live here, I'll let you in on something:  The MSM would have plastered this on the front pages of the news for weeks.  They would have speculated that McCain/Palin authorized it, they would have been talking about how nasty and criminal Republicans are.  "What did McCain know, and when did he know it? etc., etc., etc.  

You don't live here though, you don't know the one sided media like we do.


----------



## Green08 (9 October 2008)

OCTOBER 8, 2008 

Palin Meets Resistance Among Clinton Backers 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122341711146712845.html?mod=rss_Journal_Women

" While some supporters see Gov. Palin's nomination as an advance for the women's movement, some older women who voted for Sen. Clinton say Gov. Palin's speaking style and her past as a beauty queen run counter to their idea of a feminist.

"They made a big mistake with women," Nancy Wilson, a retired, 70-year-old nurse from South Carolina, said of the McCain campaign. The way Gov. Palin "flirts and winks and licks her lips -- women don't like that......"


----------



## Doris (9 October 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> It is the mindset of the deranged Democrats that allowed this to happen.
> 
> Now, imagine if Obama's email was hacked by the son of Republican lawmaker?  You don't live here, I'll let you in on something:  The MSM would have plastered this on the front pages of the news for weeks.  They would have speculated that McCain/Palin authorized it, they would have been talking about how nasty and criminal Republicans are.  "What did McCain know, and when did he know it? etc., etc., etc.
> 
> You don't live here though, you don't know the one sided media like we do.




Hmmm... sounds like trust is a factor.

Do you need to feel you can trust your president?  
- rely on his word without doubting it and without feeling you need him to justify it?

Which candidate camp has a recent track record of continual blatant lies? ... not 'honest' misinformation.
 - 'Obama IS pallin' around with terrorists'!
... as Olbermann reported, Palin's husband is doing this and she did it... with 'her' hands-on preacher. 
A 'subtle' one - don't tell your enemy you'll make a preemptive strike - Just Do It!

I read, when it happened, that kid hacked to try to see if he could.  He then notified them.  
He was discovered because he warned them himself.

And boys are kids until they are 24 (girls 23) when their amygdalas don't control their thinking and responses... this is why car insurance companies have high excesses until 'kids' are 25.


----------



## Green08 (9 October 2008)

Doris said:


> And boys are kids until they are 24 (girls 23) when their amygdalas don't control their thinking and responses... this is why car insurance companies have high excesses until 'kids' are 25.




Keeping them on push bikes until then is a great thing.  Keeps them healthy and lower the obesity rate 

I must have the only teenager who refuses to drive!!  She got her licence 1st time 100% score and that's it!  Her reasoning was the challenge and ID so people stop asking how old she is.

I told her 'I'll give you $100 if you drive the car for half and hour". Her argument is "it's not good for the world I'll drive when they make a better car".   So she walks or bikes it.


----------



## ZzzzDad (9 October 2008)

Doris said:


> I read, when it happened, that kid hacked to try to see if he could.  He then notified them.
> He was discovered because he warned them himself.
> 
> And boys are kids until they are 24 (girls 23) when their amygdalas don't control their thinking and responses... this is why car insurance companies have high excesses until 'kids' are 25.




He just did it to see if he could?  That is ridiculous.  He was trying to dig up dirt on her, and in the process, committed a federal crime.  This was political, and you and I and everyone else knows it.  Why didn't he hack Obama's or Biden's email?  

This kid was trying to be a hero for the Democrats.  Instead, he will be spending time in a federal prison (if found guilty).  He didn't warn anybody - he just posted everything on an anonymous website.  He didn't expect to be caught, he thought he had covered all his bases.  He wasn't as clever as he thought though - the feds found him easily.

You Obama supporters would be screaming bloody murder if this man was a Republican, and did the same to Biden or Obama.


----------



## Green08 (9 October 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> You Obama supporters would be screaming bloody murder if this man was a Republican, and did the same to Biden or Obama.




I can understand that you are incensed by the action of this young man.  Zzzdad accidents do happen most unfortunately in the most obvious of circumstances to others.  Who is to say people haven't tried to hack into Obama's or Biden's accounts?  Should they do so then they should face the law like this young man.

You told me once I only see one side.  I think I have given credit where I think it is due.  Have you shown any positive comment to the Democrats? 

Sarah may not have had all the firewalls and other technology to protect her email - that is the individuals responsiblity.  I remember the Pentagon being hacked into.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9dba9ba2-5a3b-11dc-9bcd-0000779fd2ac.html

http://www.dbtechno.com/internet/2008/08/29/british-man-who-hacked-into-nasa-pentagon-loses-appeal/


----------



## Doris (9 October 2008)

Green08 said:


> I can understand that you are incensed by the action of this young man.   Who is to say people haven't tried to hack into Obama's or Biden's accounts?  Should they do so then they should face the law like this young man.
> 
> You told me once I only see one side.  I think I have given credit where I think it is due.  Have you shown any positive comment to the Democrats?




He got into her hotmail account.  He probably figured, being such a hockeymum she would have one.
He got info on her and tried lots to work out her password... high school name I think.

So anyone could do this to anyone.  It's a wake-up call for our choice of passwords!

And didn't some govt employee get into Hillary's and Obama's passport/travel records?

Enough!  ... as Julia would say.

Let's focus on who is better to lead the world.  God knows we need to!


----------



## Doris (9 October 2008)

*Yahoo, Hotmail, Gmail all vulnerable to password reset hack*

I was wrong... Yahoo - not Hotmail. He didn't finally determine her password.  He reset it!
The security question must have been her high school name.
OMG...  He (rubico) did people a favour disclosing this: 



> Computerworld reporters and editors were able to "break" into their own and colleagues' accounts on all three services, then *reset passwords armed only with the account's username and the correct response to one of a limited number of common security questions, such as mother's maiden name, the name of a favorite pet or the make of a first car*.
> 
> Some of the personal information that would provide answers to the security questions may be easily found by searching social networking sites or the Internet, the approach a hacker labeled as "rubico" claimed to have used to dig up the responses necessary to access Palin's account.
> 
> ...




http://www.itworld.com/security/55191/yahoo-hotmail-gmail-all-vulnerable-password-reset-hack


----------



## Green08 (9 October 2008)

Hotmail has always worried me.  Many use it as it doesn't cost anything.  I refuse too.  A poor man's wine.

As Doris and Julia say ENOUGH!!!   Back to the thread


----------



## Doris (9 October 2008)

This poor kid's case is a warning to other amygdala-driven kids!

This seems ludicrous to me: 
 - illegally accessing an email account (a misdemeanor -> one year in jail)
 - to access email  (a felony -> five years in jail). 

Will his case become a precedent?

October 8, 2008, 05:20 PM —  IDG News Service — 



> David Kernell is facing five years in prison for allegedly hacking into Alaska Governor Sarah Palin's Yahoo e-mail account, but lawyers watching the case say that the felony charge against him is a bit of a stretch.
> 
> That's because under the 1986 Computer Fraud and Abuse Act the crime that Kernell is accused of -- illegally accessing a protected computer -- is considered *a misdemeanor offense, unless it was committed in order to pull off another crime. Then it becomes a felony*.
> 
> ...




http://www.itworld.com/legal/55863/palin-hacking-charge-flawed-lawyers-say


----------



## ZzzzDad (9 October 2008)

Doris said:


> And didn't some govt employee get into Hillary's and Obama's passport/travel records?




Actually, Doris, you got this one 2/3 right.  Hillary's and Obama's *AND* John McCain's passport records.


----------



## ZzzzDad (9 October 2008)

Green08 said:


> You told me once I only see one side.  I think I have given credit where I think it is due.  Have you shown any positive comment to the Democrats?




I said that in regards to people on this thread spamming loads and loads of negative and untrue statements about McCain.  And then, I put one thing out against Obama, and yikes!!  Those nasty Repuglians, and that sort of thing.  Sometimes I come on the three threads (Obama, McCain, and Palin), ((Biden's not popular enough to merit his own thread)), and there are literally post after post after post by our two most devoted Obama fans, that have total untruths, exaggerations, and insults about Palin and McCain. 

I don't think Obama or Biden are evil, but I do think they are profoundly wrong on almost every issue.  McCain is about half wrong, and Sarah is about 98% right.


----------



## Green08 (9 October 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> ((Biden's not popular enough to merit his own thread)), and there are literally post after post after post by our two most devoted Obama fans, that have total untruths, exaggerations, and insults about Palin and McCain.
> 
> I don't think Obama or Biden are evil, but I do think they are profoundly wrong on almost every issue.  McCain is about half wrong, and Sarah is about 98% right.




Why do you think Biden's not popular?  Sure there has not been alot of coverage but his record is reasonable strong.  

Can we not acknowledge peoples past achievements in a reasonable manner.  To say Obama has done nothing is incorrect.  I don't believe he sits around waiting for the dole and glued to the cable.  I know you don't agree but not all lawyers are nasty.  I've dealt with some and had a mixed bag.  I honor him in the path of surmountable obstacles to continually follow his belief to improve America, there is nothing stopping any American to do that.  It’s a tough job requiring energy and focus.  Studying for law is extremely hard if you want to excel and achieve Honors. Practicing is not easy - especially if you actually give a damn about the client, situation and outcome.

As far as media, the USA is huge and with many media outlets you do have some left orientated and right orientated. People take in what they want to hear and if they have the inclination - research. Dodgy in itself to filter sites and work out what is true and not.

He is not a Muslim and playing that card is annoying. Get on with the campaign.

Obama and Biden are far from evil, another word with many connotations and misleading.


----------



## chops_a_must (9 October 2008)

I can't stand any of the candidates for various reasons.

Obama is a used car salesman whose record as an actual worker is incredibly shady at best.

I also find it quite amusing that he is much more popular amongst women, who seem to have a lot of trouble seeing through the BS.


----------



## ZzzzDad (9 October 2008)

Green08 said:


> Why do you think Biden's not popular?  Sure there has not been alot of coverage but his record is reasonable strong.




That was a joke - we have 3 threads on the Presidential/Vice Presidential candidates.  Perhaps someone should give the poor guy a thread 





> Can we not acknowledge peoples past achievements in a reasonable manner.



Does that go for McCain too?  He was the thorn in the side of the Republicans for 8 years.  George Bush's arch enemy within the Republican party.  Google McCain/Feingold (campaign finance reform), McCain/Lieberman (when Lieberman was still a member in good standing with the Democrats) and McCain/Kennedy.  These were all basically initiatives that McCain went to the other side of the aisle and got legislation through that most Republicans did not agree with.  McCain was the Republican that the Democrats loved.  They even tried to woo him to run as Kerrey's VP in 2004.  He was the media darling - because he was always running to the center to try to get something done - and poke GWB in the eye at every opportunity.



> As far as media, the USA is huge and with many media outlets you do have some left orientated and right orientated. People take in what they want to hear and if they have the inclination - research. Dodgy in itself to filter sites and work out what is true and not.




A poll a couple of years ago had 87% of news media people as Democrat, 7% Republican, and the rest independant.  This was of individual reporters and anchors.  In America, only Fox News is considered conservative, along with talk radio.



> He is not a Muslim and playing that card is annoying. Get on with the campaign.



I have *NEVER* accused him of being a Muslim.  What you are referring to is that I said he had travelled to Pakistan on an Indonesian passport as an adult.  Indonesia did not, until 2006, allow dual citizenship.  The only way for Obama to legally have an Indonesian passport as an adult would have been to renounce his American citizenship.  This is a technical issue that could, if proven, disqualify him from being President.  This issue could be resolved if Obama would open up his passport record to public scrutiny.  If I had nothing to hide, I would do it in a heartbeat.



> Obama and Biden are far from evil, another word with many connotations and misleading.




If you read my post, I said he is NOT evil.


And to Sarah Palin, I apologize for my above post.  I should have said Sarah is right 100% of the time, and it is me that is only right 98% of the time.


----------



## Green08 (9 October 2008)

I did start a thread on Biden

Correct you never said Obama was a Muslim but many Republics go on about that he was, is or is linked to them.  He's not, and so what if has some friends that are, though I have no idea who his friends are.  Not all Muslims are fundamentalist. 

I have watched a story on Iraqi women who have lost their husbands, fathers and sometimes family and home.  They prostitute themselves through secret signs at the markets.  That is the only way they can get money.  The worse one was a woman who had to take men home, 1 room in which she lived with her 3 kids.  She made them stand with their faces in the corner of the room and ears covered.  Now that my sound disgusting but it was true and I feel so sorry they have no or little support to live.  They were extremely tearful and full of remorse but had to feed the kids. The result of the War in Iraq.  

She is definately not right 100% all the time. I can't pinpoint the exact figure on a % basis she is correct I don't have the time.  As for yourself that is self assessment of 98% and if believe it, then you believe it, that's fine.


----------



## Nashezz (9 October 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> It is the mindset of the deranged Democrats that allowed this to happen.
> 
> Now, imagine if Obama's email was hacked by the son of Republican lawmaker?  You don't live here, I'll let you in on something:  The MSM would have plastered this on the front pages of the news for weeks.  They would have speculated that McCain/Palin authorized it, they would have been talking about how nasty and criminal Republicans are.  "What did McCain know, and when did he know it? etc., etc., etc.
> 
> You don't live here though, you don't know the one sided media like we do.




I lived there for four years mate - the only absolute and total bias is your own, and your inability to see anything beyond Republicans good/Democrats bad - a complete load of bollocks.


----------



## Doris (11 October 2008)

*Committee Meets Over Palin Ethics Report *

Today, the committee will decide whether: 
 * the case be closed
 * another committee continue to investigate ... or 
 * the matter be referred to criminal investigators.

Reading this made me wonder exactly what Palin's 'maverick' cases were about.
It seems maybe these Republicans she fought were trying to keep her honest. Do we know the issues?



> ANCHORAGE, Alaska -- Lawmakers have begun reviewing a lengthy and politically sensitive investigative report focusing on whether Palin abused her authority as governor.
> 
> She has been accused of firing a state commissioner to settle a family dispute.
> - also whether Palin's husband meddled in state affairs and whether
> ...



http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122364495587222887.html


----------



## 2020hindsight (11 October 2008)

Doris
she abused power according to report

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/10/11/2388385.htm



> Palin abused power: 'Troopergate' probe
> Posted 28 minutes ago
> Updated 20 minutes ago
> 
> ...




PS all over Red Rover 
PS (imo)

Obama / Biden = 2/9 = $1.22
McCain / Palin  = 9/2 = $5.50

http://www.easyodds.com/compareodds/specials/Politics/m/147587-234-5.html

PS Suppose you are right, that that ABC article is only one interpretation of the report - 
it still says mountains about McCain's decision-making skills (for his first big decision of choosing a running mate).


----------



## Doris (11 October 2008)

Doris said:


> *Committee Meets Over Palin Ethics Report *
> 
> Today, the committee will decide whether:
> * the case be closed
> ...






2020hindsight said:


> Doris
> she abused power according to report
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/10/11/2388385.htm
> ...




All over?  Your item did not say 'where to now?'  

Which of the three outcomes will ensue?  

Blame the husband...

Would she allow him to take the blame *if* he ordered the sacking of the secretary of state
*if* she were to become POTUS *if* McCain carks it?

Shudders...


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## Aussiejeff (11 October 2008)

Maybe these will help decide the favorites:


----------



## Aussiejeff (11 October 2008)

or this..


----------



## Aussiejeff (11 October 2008)

or even better, this!


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## Green08 (11 October 2008)

Aussiejeff said:


> or even better, this!




Can't we make Harrison Ford the P as I had a big crush on him as a teenager in Raiders of the Lost Ark.  

Why did you go for Marshmellow Man he was wiped out in Ghostbusters?You are "pumped full of sugar"


----------



## Aussiejeff (11 October 2008)

Green08 said:


> Can't we make Harrison Ford the P as I had a big crush on him as a teenager in Raiders of the Lost Ark.
> 
> Why did you go for Marshmellow Man he was wiped out in Ghostbusters?You are "pumped full of sugar"




Fear me, for *I AM THE GHOST OF STAY PUFT*!!!

[size=+2]*MU-HA-HA-HAAAA-AAH!!!*[/size] *coff...cof*


----------



## sam76 (11 October 2008)

Sarah Palin’s Husband a Member of Armed Alaskan Secessionist Group with Ties to Al-Qaeda.

Todd Palin, husband to Republican Vice-Presidential nominee Sarah Palin, was a dues-paying member of an armed secessionist group, the Alaska Independence Party (AIP), whose founder, Joe Volger, sought to bring about an independent Alaskan nation by violent rebellion. In a 1991 interview, AIP founder, Joe Volger, said: “The fires of h*** are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government. And I won't be buried under their d*** flag.”

Both Sarah and Todd Palin attended the AIP convention in 1994, where the fringe group advocated a revote on succession from the Union and the drafting of constitution for an independent republic of Alaska. According to Gail Fenumiai, Director of Division of Elections in Alaska, state voting records show Todd Palin was registered as a member of the Alaska Independence Party from 1995 to 2002. 

The McCain campaign asserts that despite Todd Palin’s seven year membership in the Alaskan secessionist organization, Sarah Palin has never been a member of the fringe group and has never supported its radical anti-American agenda. But in an embarrassing contradiction, recent video has emerged of Palin expressing her agreement with AIP, prior to her being tapped for the McCain ticket VP-slot. 
In the taped address to the AIP party’s 2008 convention, then Alaska Governor Sarah Palin said: “I share your party’s vision of … of our great state. My administration remains focused on reining in government growth so individual liberty and opportunity can expand. I know you agree with that.”

The McCain campaign claims that Gov. Palin was simply encouraging the electoral process in a private address to her neighbors, but declined to comment on the inflammatory platform of the group calling for the obliteration of Alaskan statehood.
AIP Support for Chechens Linked to 9/11 Terrorists

More troubling for the McCain campaign, the AIP website supports a host of radical anti-American groups including the Chechen Islamic Jihad against Russia in the former Soviet state of Chechnya. 

Al-Qaeda’s former Second in Command, Ayman al-Zawahiri (who was himself captured and released in 1997 while trying to enter Chechnya) said an Al-Qaeda controlled Chechnya, “poses a direct threat to the United States [because] the only thing that will separate [Chechen Jihadists] from Afghanistan will be the neutral state of Turkmenistan.”

Al-Qaeda connections to Chechen rebels through the Afghan Taliban Embassy helped redirect four young Saudi Arabian students bound for Chechnya onto a path that ended with the September 11th attacks on America. (They were: Ahmed and Hamza al-Ghamdi who hijacked the plane that crashed into the south tower of the World Trade Center; their companion Saeed al-Ghamdi whose plane crashed in a Pennsylvania field; and Nawaf al-Hamzi who died in the Pentagon crash).

Prior to the US invasion, the Taliban government of Afghanistan had recognized an independent Chechnya and opened an embassy in Kabul on January 16th, 2000. One year later on September 11th, Al-Qaeda trained terrorists claiming alliance with the Chechen rebels flew two planes into the World Trade Center buildings in New York, a third into the Pentagon building in Washington DC, and crashed a fourth in rural Pennsylvania. Sergei Yastrzhembsky, the Kremlin’s top spokesman on Chechnya, warned that the U.S.-backed opposition in Afghanistan should expect the same result. Chechens and the Taliban alike consider their lands unconquerable -- a psychology that works against imposed military solutions.

Palin, AIP’s Manchurian Candidate?

Former AIP President Mark Chryson and another radical right-winger, Steve Stoll, played a quiet but pivotal role in electing, then political unknown, Sarah Palin as mayor of Wasilla. Stoll and Chryson did the ground work to drum up local financial support for Palin’s campaign and played king-makers to the Palin camp crafting her political message as a polished version of their own radical agenda.

Palin helped Chryson to mainstream AIP’s radical secessionist initiatives, including one that altered the state Constitution’s language to better promote the formation of anti-government militias in advance of an armed revolt. She used her power as mayor to try and defeat local officials AIP identified as pro-United States, and consulted them about new hires. She even attempted to unilaterally appoint Stoll, a John Birch Society activist known as “Black Helicopter Steve,” to an vacated Wasilla City Council seat rather than hold a special election. “Every time I showed up, her door was open [to me],” said Chryson. “And that policy continued when she became governor.”

Continued Questions of Abuse of Power

A state legislative investigator has found that Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin abused her executive power when she and her husband engaged in a campaign to oust her former brother-in-law from the state police force, a report released today states.
Palin, the Republican vice presidential nominee, had been accused of dismissing Public Safety Commissioner Walter Monegan, a career law enforcement official, after he rebuffed attempts by Palin, her husband Todd, and cabinet officials to reopen an investigation into Palin's brother-in-law, state Trooper Mike Wooten. After his firing, Monegan said he believed that comments in conversations and e-mails from Palin, her husband Todd and other state officials were an attempt to get him to fire Wooten.

The McCain-Palin campaign has attacked the investigation as a partisan effort, but the report was commissioned and released by a bipartisan state legislative panel made up of 10 Republicans and 4 Democrats, who concluded: “The evidence supports the conclusion that Governor Palin, at the least, engaged in ‘official action’ by her inaction if not her active participation or assistance to her husband in attempting to get Trooper Wooten fired [and there is evidence of her active participation].” 

(Click link for video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3iYUbbzBBU).
(Click link for video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwvPNXYrIyI).


----------



## Doris (11 October 2008)

Aussiejeff said:


> or even better, this!




Brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!

Onya AJ!   hahahaha!


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## Green08 (11 October 2008)

‘Alaska Women Reject Palin’ Rally is HUGE!
2008

I attended the Welcome Home rally for Sarah Palin this morning.  Hooo.  It was an experience. About a thousand (maybe) hard-core Palin supporters showed up to hear her speak at the new Dena’ina Convention Center in downtown Anchorage.  

After shaking it off with a good double shot of espresso, and a brisk walk back to my car, it was time to head to the Alaska Women Reject Palin rally.    It was to be held outside on the lawn in front of the Loussac Library in midtown Anchorage.  Home made signs were encouraged, and the idea was to make a statement that Sarah Palin does not speak for all Alaska women, or men.  I had no idea what to expect.

The rally was organized by a small group of women, talking over coffee.  It made me wonder what other things have started with small groups of women talking over coffee.  It’s probably an impressive list.  These women hatched the plan, printed up flyers, posted them around town, and sent notices to local media outlets.  One of those media outlets was KBYR radio, home of Eddie Burke, a long-time uber-conservative Anchorage talk show host.  Turns out that Eddie Burke not only announced the rally, but called the people who planned to attend the rally “a bunch of socialist baby-killing maggots”, and read the home phone numbers of the organizers aloud over the air, urging listeners to call and tell them what they thought.  The women, of course, received many nasty,  harassing and threatening messages.

So, as I jettisoned myself from the jaws of the ‘Drill Baby Drill’ crowd and toward the mystery rally at the library, I felt a bit apprehensive.  I’d been disappointed before by the turnout at other rallies.  Basically, in Anchorage, if you can get 25 people to show up at an event, it’s a success.  So, I thought to myself, if we can actually get 100 people there that aren’t sent by Eddie Burke, we’ll be doing good.  A real statement will have been made.  I confess, I still had a mental image of 15 demonstrators surrounded by hundreds of menacing “socialist baby-killing maggot” haters.

It’s a good thing I wasn’t tailgating when I saw the crowd in front of the library or I would have ended up in somebody’s trunk.  When I got there, about 20 minutes early, the line of sign wavers stretched the full length of the library grounds, along the edge of the road, 6 or 7 people deep!  I could hardly find a place to park.  I nabbed one of the last spots in the library lot, and as I got out of the car and started walking, people seemed to join in from every direction, carrying signs.

Never, have I seen anything like it in my 17 and a half years living in Anchorage.  The organizers had someone walk the rally with a counter, and they clicked off well over 1400 people (not including the 90 counter-demonstrators).  This was the biggest political rally ever, in the history of the state.  I was absolutely stunned.  The second most amazing thing is how many people honked and gave the thumbs up as they drove by.  And even those that didn’t honk looked wide-eyed and awe-struck at the huge crowd that was growing by the minute.  This just doesn’t happen here.

Then, the infamous Eddie Burke showed up.  He tried to talk to the media, and was instantly surrounded by a group of 20 people who started shouting O-BA-MA so loud he couldn’t be heard.  Then passing cars started honking in a rhythmic pattern of 3, like the Obama chant, while the crowd cheered, hooted and waved their signs high. 

So, if you’ve been doing the math…  Yes.  The Alaska Women Reject Palin rally was significantly bigger than Palin’s rally that got all the national media coverage!  So take heart, sit back, and enjoy the photo gallery.  Feel free to spread the pictures around (links are appreciated) to anyone who needs to know that Sarah Palin most definitely does not speak for all Alaskans.  The citizens of Alaska, who know her best, have things to say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNlc...9/14/alaska-women-reject-palin-rally-is-huge/

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Date : 14 September 2008 
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----------



## Green08 (11 October 2008)

This is a very interesting site with photo's and commentary on how the coal and oil development is impacting the wildlife of Alaska

http://www.subhankarbanerjee.org/selectphotographs.html

Take some time to view them.  Climate Change is having a detrimental effect slowly speeding up. 

Wipe out natural habitats to you have gas for your car? Only a person with no conscience would do this to there most glorious land and stunning animals


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## Garpal Gumnut (11 October 2008)

Green08 said:


> This is a very interesting site with photo's and commentary on how the coal and oil development is impacting the wildlife of Alaska
> 
> http://www.subhankarbanerjee.org/selectphotographs.html
> 
> ...




Jeez Green, you don't still believe all that global warming rubbish.

Sarah Palin is just as interested in keeping Alaska beautiful as any warmener.

gg


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## Green08 (11 October 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Jeez Green, you don't still believe all that global warming rubbish.
> 
> Sarah Palin is just as interested in keeping Alaska beautiful as any warmener.
> 
> gg




Jeez GG - Global Warming is not rubbish - but hey you believe what you want.

Palin is a F###ing disaster. So you want the next Barbie in go for it.  

She doesn't give a thought to the real impact her "drill baby drill" has.  You love her great so do alot of idiot males in the US nothing like a t't and a55 to make you guys forget there is a real election going on.


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## Garpal Gumnut (11 October 2008)

Green08 said:


> Jeez GG - Global Warming is not rubbish - but hey you believe what you want.
> 
> Palin is a F###ing disaster. So you want the next Barbie in go for it.
> 
> She doesn't give a thought to the real impact her "drill baby drill" has.  You love her great so do alot of idiot males in the US nothing like a t't and a55 to make you guys forget there is a real election going on.




I do hope you are an Alaskan mate, that 3rd word from the end could be misinterpreted if you are Japanese.

gg


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## Green08 (11 October 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Joe is too old to be a VP.
> 
> He thinks slow and talks all about the place.
> 
> ...




Young, vital and completely inexperienced.   What was the mantra McCain was on "Lack of experience"  well he picked a dozy with her.  

You, like so many Rightists belittle Biden who has so much experience.  

You support rape, incest, forced birth, no contraception, environmental damage she's your ticket. She might even open up the jails with serious criminals to wander the land and plunder and rape. The woman has little moral.  Do they have the baby bonus in Alaska?

Let me guess your a full blooded Australian with Convict Heritage, Townsville the new Alaska!


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## Green08 (11 October 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I don't know what you girls and guys are going to do if Obama loses.




What would you do if Palin's not around. Play with the doll figure and dream of what could be.  Might want to get as many smutty photos and posters of her while they are popular and cheap.


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## Garpal Gumnut (11 October 2008)

Green08 said:


> Young, vital and completely inexperienced.   What was the mantra McCain was on "Lack of experience"  well he picked a dozy with her.
> 
> You, like so many Rightists belittle Biden who has so much experience.
> 
> ...




Mate , lighten up, go out in the snow, have a leak and cool down. Its just a bloody election , not the headcount for getting on the Ark.

I'll respond to you when you come back in.

One question I did want to ask you, does pee freeze quicker than water in Alaska?

gg

gg


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## Green08 (11 October 2008)

*Genetic sexual attraction*

You're 40, happily married - and then you meet your long-lost brother and fall passionately in love. This isn't fiction; in the age of the sperm donor, it's a growing reality: 50% of reunions between siblings, or parents and offspring, separated at birth result in obsessive emotions. Last month, a former police officer was convicted of incest with his half-sister - but should we criminalise a bond hardwired into our psychology? Alix Kirsta talks to those who have suffered the torment of 'genetic sexual attraction'

Abuse; Childhood trauma; Neglect; Suicide attempt; Self-mutilation; 

What is Palin's policy on support for rape and incest victims?


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## Sir Burr (11 October 2008)

Green08 said:


> So you want the next Barbie in go for it.




OK! 

_"Considering how obsessed the nation is with Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, it was only a matter of time before someone created a love doll in her likeness. After the jump, all the details on what may be America’s first political sex doll"._

http://www.thefrisky.com/site/post/246-sarah-palin-sex-doll-now-on-sale/


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## Green08 (11 October 2008)

Sir Burr said:


> OK!
> 
> _"Considering how obsessed the nation is with Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, it was only a matter of time before someone created a love doll in her likeness. After the jump, all the details on what may be America’s first political sex doll"._
> 
> http://www.thefrisky.com/site/post/246-sarah-palin-sex-doll-now-on-sale/




You are a sad lot of boys.  Can not bring myself to call you men you are light years from that step.


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## Green08 (11 October 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> One question I did want to ask you, does pee freeze quicker than water in Alaska?




I would not know. Why don't you try and put the results on Google.  Your closer to Alaska than I am.  You poor boy I don't have the apparatus to try nor the climate.

Any answer to her policy to give therapy to rape and incest victims??


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## Garpal Gumnut (11 October 2008)

Green08 said:


> *Genetic sexual attraction*
> 
> You're 40, happily married - and then you meet your long-lost brother and fall passionately in love. This isn't fiction; in the age of the sperm donor, it's a growing reality: 50% of reunions between siblings, or parents and offspring, separated at birth result in obsessive emotions. Last month, a former police officer was convicted of incest with his half-sister - but should we criminalise a bond hardwired into our psychology? Alix Kirsta talks to those who have suffered the torment of 'genetic sexual attraction'
> 
> ...




Only in America mate. here we go the pub and there is enough genetic diversity to last all night. 

All you postmodernists produced all this hocus pocus, and you will disappear up your collective a***s trying to sort it out. 

I am off to the pub for a beer and if I'm lucky a root. 

I just hope McCain and Palin get in to sort you sick mob of buggers out.

gg


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## Green08 (11 October 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I am off to the pub for a beer and if I'm lucky a root.




So eloquent! A true Neanderthal trying to be a gentleman.


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## Aussiejeff (11 October 2008)

Green08 said:


> So eloquent! A true Neanderthal trying to be a gentleman.




I think since Sa-RAH got Moosed by the law, his Garpal Syndrome has become inflamed....


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## Garpal Gumnut (11 October 2008)

Green08 said:


> So eloquent! A true Neanderthal trying to be a gentleman.





I forgot my smokes and unfortunately you are still sitting there with a full bladder when I glanced at my screen.

The neanderthals did die out mate, just as you will. I'm a human, male xy, and long after your silly ideas are lumpenturd , I and my descendants will still be here.

gg


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## Green08 (11 October 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I forgot my smokes and unfortunately you are still sitting there with a full bladder when I glanced at my screen.
> 
> The neanderthals did die out mate, just as you will. I'm a human, male xy, and long after your silly ideas are lumpenturd , I and my descendants will still be here.
> 
> gg




Goodness your wasting time!!  Hurrry to the pub or you might miss the choice bits!


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## Boggo (11 October 2008)

It just keeps getting better (bitter) everyday...


Associated Press
Saturday, 11 October 2008

An Alaska ethics report has concluded that John McCain's running mate, Sarah Palin, abused her power as governor when firing a state official, a development that could hinder the Republicans as the race for the White House narrows.

In the closely watched case, the Alaska governor was accused of pressuring the official to fire her former brother-in-law and then firing the official when he refused. Palin maintains the firing was over a budget dispute.

The 300-page report by the chief investigator to a bipartisan Alaska legislative panel that looked into the matter was likely to be fodder for Democratic attacks, especially in light of the fact that Palin has painted herself as a political maverick who will help McCain clean up Washington.


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## rederob (11 October 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I am off to the pub for a beer and if I'm lucky a root.
> I just hope McCain and Palin get in to sort you sick mob of buggers out.



I reckon the boys at the pub must be rubbing themselves with glee when you turn up.


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## Green08 (11 October 2008)

*Does Sarah Palin Want to be an American Citizen?*
By Norman Markowitz
10-06-08, 1:50 pm  

Alaska Independence Party leaders have also claimed that Sarah Palin was a member before she was elected mayor of Wasilla, which the McCain campaign has denied. Officially, records show that Palin was a registered Republican since 1982, six years before she married her husband Todd, British Petroleum supervisory employee, self-employed fisherman, and snowmobile mobile racer. 

The Director of the Alaska Division of Elections has stated that Todd Palin, however, was a registered member of the Alaska Independence Party from 1995 to 2002. Todd Palin, all sources agree, has played a significant role as a policy adviser to his wife's administration. There is significant disagreement about Sarah Palin's attendance at Alaska Independence Party conventions before she became mayor of Wasilla. She did visit their convention after she became mayor, however, which the McCain workers try to downplay as a mere courtesy call. As governor, she sent a video tape to the most recent 2008 convention telling the delegates to "keep up the good work" and calling their convention "inspiring." 

*Keep up the good work of campaigning for a secession referendum from the US? While mainstream media has portrayed this party as "fringe" and extremist, it is the third leading party in Alaska (albeit a small one in a small state) and has the kind of history which has led to separatist wars in other places like Chechnya, where groups considered lunatic fringe, have taken advantage of economic and other crises to sow hatred and division and violence. 

It is also an extreme right-wing party whose leaders in recent years have broken from the Republicans because they see the Bush-Cheney Republicans as "too liberal." Its present leaders have both praised Sarah Palin and denounced John McCain. *
Here is a little history on the Alaska Independence Party. The Party was founded by an ultra-rightist gold miner, Joe Vogler in the 1970s with an "anti-American" platform. Palin has denounced those abroad in oil rich countries who "hate America." Joe Vogler hated America. He said in the 1970s, "I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I have no use for America or her damned institutions." 

Later Vogler said that "the fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred of the US government. And I won't be buried under their damn flag....when Alaska is an independent nation they can bring my bones home." He said this in an oral history interview at the University of Alaska in 1991, at which time Bill Ayers had rejected his own past and had become respectable. Two years later Vogler disappeared. A criminal subsequently confessed to murdering him in a conflict over the sale of plastic explosives (which may suggest terrorism). 

The Alaska Independence Party, which today favors a referendum on whether Alaska should become an independent country, a commonwealth like Puerto Rico, a state (they have never recognized the legitimacy of Alaskan statehood), or go back to its old territorial status, still pushes an agenda to the right of the present Republican Party. 

In 1992, the party ran Howard Phillips for president. Phillips, a long-time ultra-right Republican from Massachusetts, had involved himself primarily in Cold War issues, particularly supporting terrorist guerrilla movements in Latin America and Africa. He was also a major organizational figure in bringing together secular and religious rightists in the 1970s, a founder of the ultra-right US Taxpayers Party (later the Constitution Party), and other extreme right-wing groups. He broke with the Republican Party in the 1970s from the far right. 

In 2004, the Alaska Independence Party endorsed a Phillips protegee Michael Peroutka for president on a "Christian heritage platform," supporting an end to federal aid to education and opposition to most federal policies as a matter of principle. 

The Alaska Independence Party is currently supporting Reverend Charles Baldwin, a right-wing minister and protege of the late Jerry Fallwell. Baldwin broke with Fallwell and the Republicans in 2000, however, because he considered the Bush-Cheney ticket too far to the left. Baldwin has regularly attacked Bush from the far right, was Peroutka's Vice Presidential running mate in 2004 and, according to press sources, believes in a wide variety of conspiracies (as do many Alaska Independence Party members) popular among militia groups concerning the "New World Order." 

Right-wing militia groups at war with the US government spouting philosophies not unlike those of the Alaska Independence Party (which has so far not advocated an armed uprising against the US government) still exist. The Oklahoma City bombing is just one example of terrorism committed by far-right extremists similar in philosophy to the Alaska Independence Party. 

Todd Palin continued an official membership in the Alaska Independence Party until 2002, more than 30 years after the Weather Underground went out of existence and Barack Obama was a child. When Todd Palin was a member the Alaska Independence Party, Sarah Palin was the mother of his children. Sarah Palin, as Alaska's governor, told the Alaska Independence Party to "keep up the good work" as they were about to nominate conspiracy buff Charles Baldwin for president. 

The Alaska Independence Party has a history which it has not repudiated and a commitment to policies that would be considered "anti-American" across the political spectrum, policies that have produced separatist wars in many parts of the world. *Americans deserve to know if Sarah Palin still agrees with that party's views, and even if she wants to be an American rather than an Alaskan citzen. *


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## Green08 (11 October 2008)

*Christian Fundamentalism Permeates the Republican Party: Sarah Palin’s links to the Christian Right *

............................

A Dominionist soldier in McCain’s Army

*Sarah Palin is a product of an extreme fringe of the American Evangelical movement known variously as the Third Wave Movement, also known as the New Apostolic Reformation, or as Joel's Army, a part of what is called Dominionism*. Until 2002 according to their own website, Palin was a member of Wasilla Assembly of God with Senior Pastor Ed Kalnins. Online video clips of Palin speaking from the pulpit of this church are revealing. Curiously, between the time this article was begun on September 9th and the 11th, the video was removed without explanation:

(http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20712.htm.).

As one researcher familiar with the history of the Third Wave Movement or Dominionism describes, ‘The Third Wave is a revival of the theology of the Latter Rain tent revivals of the 1950s and 1960s led by William Branham and others. It is based on the idea that in the end times there will be an outpouring of supernatural powers on a group of Christians that will take authority over the existing church and the world. The believing Christians of the world will be reorganized under the Fivefold Ministry and the church restructured under the authority of Prophets and Apostles and others anointed by God. The young generation will form ‘Joel’s Army’ to rise up and battle evil and retake the earth for God.’4

The excesses of this movement were declared a heresy in 1949 by the General Council of the Assemblies of God, and again condemned through Resolution 16 in 2000..............

http://www.australia.to/index.php?o...ticle&id=314:f-william-engdahl&catid=1:latest


----------



## 2020hindsight (11 October 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> does pee freeze quicker than water in Alaska?



salt content would mean it freezes slower. .

All the more reason not to piss against the wind as (you and) Palin are arguably doing.  

:topic 
Speaking of going "on the piss" 

Here's what the Bible says ...


> Drink water from your own cistern, flowing water from your own well. (The Book of Proverbs 5:15)*




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urophagia

Not sure about Alaska, but just over the ditch in Siberia, they have been known to "hit the piss"  -  to get a second high from the magic mushrooms they had yesterday... 



> ....Ceremonial
> 
> The Koryak people of Siberia drink urine in conjunction with their ceremonial use of the psychoactive .. mushroom. The active alkaloids are unchanged as they pass through the human body, allowing the urine to retain the intoxicating effects of the mushroom


----------



## Doris (12 October 2008)

Ok... I know Palin is merely a puppet of the McCain campaign and is seducing her party by doing what they want.

And she probably does not know what 'they' write and she reads.
I give her the benefit of the doubt as she does not have a reputation for reading current affairs.

McCain is not young so he probably forgets what his party did to him in his 2000 campaign.



> The McCain campaign had recruited as a Palin handler none other than Tucker Eskew, the South Carolina consultant who had worked for George W. Bush in the notorious 2000 G.O.P. primary battle where the McCains and their adopted Bangladeshi daughter were slimed by vicious racist rumors.
> 
> No less disconcerting was a still-unexplained passage of Palin’s convention speech:
> 
> ...




http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/opinion/12rich.html


----------



## Doris (12 October 2008)

Informed opinion is common sense.  But common sense is not too common it seems.

Palin backers are rejoicing that the Troopergate Report did not lay charges on her and claim it was a political stunt!
Hmmm... Doesn't - 10 Republicans + 4 Democrats = bipartisan report!?




> The report establishes that Palin deliberately set up Todd Palin to handle communications over the Wooten matter *after Monegan warned her it was inappropriate for her to be making such contacts herself*.
> 
> "The evidence supports the conclusion that Gov. Palin, at the least, engaged in *'official action' by her inaction*, if not her active participation or assistance to her husband in attempting to get Trooper Wooten fired," adding that "there is evidence of her active participation."
> 
> ...




The state Ethics Act holds that public officials have a duty of public trust that prevents them from attempting to benefit a personal or financial interest through official action.


 * The report made no specific recommendations on penalties or how to proceed.

 * Further action would be up to the state personnel board, which is *carrying out a separate inquiry*.

Civil penalties range, theoretically, from impeachment by the Legislature to a reprimand or a fine of up to $5,000 by the state personnel board, but most legislative sources thought it unlikely any action would be taken.



> "We understood at the beginning that we were on a fact-finding mission, but *we don't have the power to prosecute*."
> 
> "We have the power to investigate. We have the power to change law based on the investigation.
> *We don't have the power to convene a grand jury, for example, and seek an indictment*."





BTW... Palin demanded Wooten be charged as he had shot a female moose without a permit.

Monegan investigated and found: Palin's sister had a permit for the moose and was present when it was shot. 
Palin's father had butchered the moose. 

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-troopergate11-2008oct11,0,192217.story


----------



## Doris (12 October 2008)

Doris said:


> Informed opinion is common sense.  But common sense is not too common it seems.
> 
> Palin backers are rejoicing that the Troopergate Report did not lay charges on her and claim it was a political stunt!
> Hmmm... Doesn't - 10 Republicans + 4 Democrats = bipartisan report!?




It seems McCain's camp doesn't read newspapers either! ... birds of a feather

Surely they'd have a copy of the official outcome - which newspapers have quoted.

This statement looks quite silly embedded with pertinent 'facts' in the WSJ:



> The McCain campaign issued a statement that said the report "illustrates what we've known all along:
> *this was a partisan led inquiry run by Obama supporters*."
> 
> The statement added: "*Lacking evidence to support the original Monegan allegation*, the Legislative Council seriously overreached, making a tortured argument to find fault without basis in law or fact."




http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122364495587222887.html


----------



## amory (12 October 2008)

am I missing something?  is it some personal thing against Palin or the republicans or whatever?  fact remains, there is a lot of personal vilification going on in this thread ... not just against Palin but against one another.

you are all supposed to be good mates, not call each other names.  otherwise you will find yourselves banned for quite a fair length of time & who wants that to happen?

oh & by the way:  many years ago I wrote a book with that lady from Q'ld ... please explain ... in mind - a sexdoll in her image takes centre stage for a while.  its called Karleen MP.  a few copies to give away for light relief, anyone.  first three, for free ....

it was actually the first thing that struck me about Palin ... the resemblance.

what was it John Laws used to say:  be kind to each other!


----------



## 2020hindsight (12 October 2008)

amory said:


> am I missing something?  is it some personal thing against Palin .....
> 
> it was actually the first thing that struck me about Palin ... the resemblance.




one bludy confusing post amory


----------



## ZzzzDad (13 October 2008)

amory said:


> am I missing something?  is it some personal thing against Palin or the republicans or whatever?  fact remains, there is a lot of personal vilification going on in this thread ... not just against Palin but against one another.
> 
> you are all supposed to be good mates, not call each other names.  otherwise you will find yourselves banned for quite a fair length of time & who wants that to happen?
> 
> ...




It is called Palin Derangement Syndrome.  It is so over the top.  The same people that are shocked when something is uttered against Obama, are way way way more over the top against McCain and especially Palin.  It is unhealthy.  There will be many heart attacks on the left when McCain/Palin pull this one out.

Yesterday on TV, some Obama pundit was foaming at the mouth and calling Palin racist because she calls herself a hockey mom.  Why was he so upset?  Well, his reasoning was that this was a code word term against blacks.  You see, as he said "Blacks don't play hockey, so the term is not inclusive".  Crazy stuff.  The hate and anger is coming much more from the left than from the right.  

Go to the comments sections on any articles on the Huffington Post, Democraticunderground and ANY other left wing site in America (and undoubtedly Australia too - all leftists are alike, wherever they are) and see the spit and anger.  Thousands and thousands of unhinged comments.


----------



## ZzzzDad (13 October 2008)

Which side is REALLY "Gripped by insane rage?"  It is not Republicans, as the media would lead you to believe.

Open this link, and be shocked:

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/12/crush-the-obamedia-narrative-look-whos-gripped-by-insane-rage/

This is so wrong.


----------



## Green08 (13 October 2008)

amory said:


> be kind to each other!




We are kind to each other just different levels of it!  How was the weekend ZzzDad?


----------



## Aussiejeff (13 October 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> Which side is REALLY "Gripped by insane rage?"  It is not Republicans, as the media would lead you to believe.
> 
> Open this link, and be shocked:
> 
> ...




Actually, what shocked me the most was the violent intent of many of the hard right respondents in the comments following the article. The many calls to "bear arms" and "stand up & fight for what's right" (literally - not figuratively) sounds like a call to revolution.

You say it is not Republicans who are gripped by insane rage? Did you even bother to read the various Republican respondent's comments? Or did you just blindly follow the tenet of the article's author?

I'll say one thing as an "outside observer". This campaign does appear to be turning into one of the most devisive elections in Americas history. 

Whoever wins, that won't be good news for the incoming President.  

Take a chill pill, man.


aj


----------



## Doris (13 October 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> Which side is REALLY "Gripped by insane rage?"  It is not Republicans, as the media would lead you to believe.
> Open this link, and be shocked:
> This is so wrong.






Aussiejeff said:


> Actually, what shocked me the most was the violent intent of many of the hard right respondents in the comments following the article. The many calls to "bear arms" and "stand up & fight for what's right" (literally - not figuratively) sounds like a call to revolution.
> 
> You say it is not Republicans who are gripped by insane rage? Did you even bother to read the various Republican respondent's comments? Or did you just blindly follow the tenet of the article's author?
> aj




The propaganda on this waste-of-time site was 99.9% from/on 2004-5.
What does that have to do with Obama?  
His self-constructed brief is based on annihilating that sort of destructive divisive rot from politics.

As one blogger pointed out, some aspects need to be centralized by federal gov't eg food labelling, defence. 
I would add healthcare. Argue the policies and stop stooping to petty lies and distortions!

You fooled me twice!  Never again shall I waste my time and read your sick sites! I've tried to see your side.   

This blogger from that site is the essence of common sense and reality:


> Oh come on. There are deranged loons on both sides.
> 
> The difference is the recent looniness on the right has been incited by McCain himself! And the outrageous comments from supporters are being said in front of Palin/McCain.
> 
> ...


----------



## Green08 (13 October 2008)

Doris said:


> "Oh come on. There are deranged loons on both sides"
> :




Halloween is coming up they could be just practicing for the big day to scare the wits out of each other!!!   Candy Corn and Toffee Apples all round!

They won't see each other for the trees!!


----------



## Doris (13 October 2008)

*Palin: 'Very much appreciating being cleared of any legal wrongdoing or unethical activity at all*' 

It seems incredible to me that Palin can so blatantly lie about the Troopergate Report!  
Why doesn't she just promote the parts of the report that favour her and omit the guilty parts? - Lie by omission?
... but then she does do this, when asked if she did 'anything' wrong - she skirts the question.

Does she think folk do not read newspapers? ... only listen to her comments on radio and TV interviews?
Does she really think people won't notice that her lies reflect her dishonesty?


On the left, on the bottom of the first page, you can click to hear her interview with Alaskan radio stations:

http://community.adn.com/adn/node/132625

*The full script of her interview is below the audio button*.


----------



## Doris (13 October 2008)

*When the Secret Service stepped in* to 'keep an eye on supporters who threaten to harm Obama at McCain-Palin rallies', McCain, it seems, 'reformed' by saying Obama was a good, family man... no need to be scared of him as president - in his effort to also present himself as decent and honorable.

But the campaign's speech notes were more subtle for Palin's attacks! 
They're letting her pit bull traits shine through and carry on the innuendo... (last night, our time):



> Palin focused on the economy saying Obama would raise taxes, increase spending, add to the national debt.
> 
> “Folks, in times like these the last thing we need is a tax increase,” she said at a rally in front of a barn.
> “America just can’t afford another big spender in the White House.”




Did folk hear Obama say in two debates - *95% will get tax relief* - no tax increase under $250k income.
Did they not notice that McCain did not deny he wants $billions more in tax relief for the weathy?
Bottom-up versus top-down economic regeneration!



> Her tough talk on Obama’s relationship with William Ayers and views on abortion were excluded, other than a passing message to Obama’s opposition to a ban on late-term abortions, which elicited chants of, “Killer” from the crowd.




Did they not hear Obama stress that abortion is a state issue?
Wouldn't Palin KNOW that? ... or at least her speech-writers should have!  

She tried to offload Bush's record from McCain:
_McCain would take on wasteful spending and abuses of power as president._

So subtly she encouraged a continuation of anger in her flock:


> “All across America, I know that there’s a lot of anger right now,” she said. “There’s *anger about* the insider dealing of lobbyists and *anger at* the greed of Wall Street, and *anger about* the arrogance of the Washington elite. And with serious reforms to change Washington, *John McCain is going to turn your anger into action*.”
> 
> While she avoided explicitly linking Obama to Ayers Palin spoke of how those who “*support and sympathize with the terrorists*” are the bad guys.
> 
> ...



I wonder if she winked! 

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/12/1537565.aspx


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (13 October 2008)

Three and a half hours without any left wing hate against Sarah Palin from either  Doris or Green08, 

It must be a record.

gg


----------



## 2020hindsight (13 October 2008)

> those who support those terrorists who would seek to destroy all that it is that we value, those are the bad guys, OK?”




good one doris

"so let's hear it folks ... 

Ray for the good guys RAYYYYY !
Boo for the bad guys  BOOOOOO !"

Here endith the Epistle. (e-pisstake?)  

God she's hopeless lol - still I'm sure those without any education whatsoever will enjoy her bs.


----------



## IFocus (13 October 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Three and a half hours without any left wing hate against Sarah Palin from either  Doris or Green08,
> 
> It must be a record.
> 
> gg




GG you said you were going roo shooting? hope you decimate the local pig/cat/fox populations along the way


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (13 October 2008)

IFocus said:


> GG you said you were going roo shooting? hope you decimate the local pig/cat/fox populations along the way




Agree, pig, cat and fox population very harmful to the bush and native animals.

gg


----------



## Green08 (13 October 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Three and a half hours without any left wing hate against Sarah Palin from either  Doris or Green08,
> It must be a record.gg




Good God you've risen from the dead (sorry bed).  You are determined to take shots at Doris and I - no one else, selective misogynist. 

Swilling cheap beer and the hostie with the mostie must have gone down well with your wife?


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (13 October 2008)

Green08 said:


> Good God you've risen from the dead (sorry bed).  You are determined to take shots at Doris and I - no one else, selective misogynist.
> 
> Swilling cheap beer and the hostie with the mostie must have gone done well with your wife?




Mate my third wife and I split up. She went down to live in a permaculture show near Nimbin. She's a nice girl, and we remain friends and still email each other. 

The one thing that pisses her off is the large number of hairy legged humourless feminists down there who hate men. 

I can give you the address if you want it. You'd fit in like Flynn.

gg


----------



## Bushman (13 October 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> The one thing that pisses her off is the large number of hairy legged humourless feminists down there who hate men.
> 
> 
> gg




What is it with feminism being equated with hairy legs? Does it mean that I am a feminist? Please don't tell any of the lads down at the soccer club!


----------



## Green08 (13 October 2008)

GG

Have you bought your Sarah Dolls yet?

GET THE 12" SARAH PALIN ACTION FIGURE BELOW ORDER NOW BEFORE THEY ARE SOLD OUT 

YES WE SHIP GLOBALLY

Order your Christmas Gifts early get 10% off all orders placed before November 1st 2008​.








I'm pretty sure that any Joe 6 Pack would have these in his car for company

​


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (13 October 2008)

Green08 said:


> GG
> 
> Have you bought your Sarah Dolls yet?
> 
> ...




I leave that for sickos like you mate. I prefer real women. 

And you hate working class men more than working class women. Verrrry interesting as Sigmund would say. 

You do like posting your sex toys and pr0n on ASF.

gg


----------



## Green08 (13 October 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> The one thing that pisses her off is the large number of hairy legged humourless feminists down there who hate men.




Oh assumptions, assumptions what's your thinking like without alcohol?

Had my legs lasered years ago smooth a silk! 

Hate men, goodness no - my Partner and I are in a very loving, caring relationship for the past 10 years very loyal to each other.

I think most men are great. Even some who support the right side  At the end of the day I assess a person on their integrity, morals and ethics.  My standards are obviously   universes apart from yours.  It’s great we are 1000s of kms part. Wouldn’t want it any other way!

My partner has read your comments and thinks your a disgusting pathetic example of the male race


----------



## Green08 (13 October 2008)

You seem to be the one in love with Sarah.  Just didn't want you to miss out on merchandise they sell globally.  Will remind you of why you argued so hard.

Sex toy and pr0n.  There is no pr0n or sex toy just a selection of dolls - pretty harmless.  Why would they make dolls that could mislead children? You really can't interpret very well with dolls.

Don't hate working class men, assumption again when will you learn?  I have many friends in the Fire Brigade, Police Force, Construction, the Army and Farming industries.  Then I do have friends who work in corporations who wear blue shirts with blue collars.  Respect them all.

"Real women" like the one you alluded too in your rather public bantering would be delighted to R... you I'm Sure.. But then again my idea of a real woman and yours are quite different.


----------



## 2020hindsight (13 October 2008)

Keith Olbermann connects the dots about Sarah Palin. Who's been really associating with terrorists and extremists?

hilarious


----------



## Doris (15 October 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> Keith Olbermann connects the dots about Sarah Palin. Who's been really associating with terrorists and extremists?
> hilarious



Olbermann makes a great comprehensive review!

Troopergate was the subject of the Anchorage Daily News today:


> Sarah Palin's reaction to the Legislature's Troopergate report is an embarrassment to Alaskans and the nation.
> *She claims the report "vindicates" her*. She said that the investigation found "no unlawful or unethical activity on my part."
> 
> Her response is either astoundingly ignorant or downright Orwellian:
> ...



http://www.adn.com/opinion/view/story/555236.html

Other papers have commented on this:


> If a public official refuses to acknowledge reality and invents an alternative reality to live in, she cannot be vice-president, let alone president, of the United States. This is not a judgment call. We have a *denialist loony* on one of the major tickets.



http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/the-anchorage-d.html


----------



## Doris (15 October 2008)

I'm so pleased to see that Monegan has instigated a cleanup in this scandal.
He had a brilliant reputation until Palin came along with her vendetta against her sister's fifth husband.

Ex-Official: *Palin Lied, Threw Me Under Bus*
Fired by Palin, Walt Monegan Says He Wants to Clear His Good Name



> Palin called Monegan "insubordinate" and accused him of having had a "rogue mentality" while he was part of her administration. She leveled those charges in a filing to the state Personnel Board, *justifying her dismissal of Monegan*.
> 
> Now *Monegan has formally complained about those accusations* to the same panel, and is asking its members to hold a fact-finding hearing "to clear his good name, remove the stigma he has suffered, and redress his reputational interests."
> 
> ...



http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/TrooperGate/Story?id=6029101&page=2


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (15 October 2008)

Doris I'm going to need a ladder to read all your ramblings about Sarah Palin. They go from one end of the page to the other.

I take it you don't like her.

But you are raving on a bit.

Are there any stocks you think might be affected if she became VP? 

Or equally if the little social worker Obama became P, any stocks that might go gangbusters given his links with the mob in Chicago, possibly casinos, security firms.

I'd be interested in your thoughts.

gg


----------



## Green08 (15 October 2008)

Little Social Worker?  Social work is one of the hardest jobs with little praise and acknowledgment.  You wouldn't know what the term really means as you are the most obnoxious self centered person around.

If you had an inkling you might stop belittling people who work in the field.
Obama is great with people as social work is about dealing with people mostly individually through various crisis and guidance.  Skills needed are high-level analytic and observational skills, effective listening and communication skills since they are always interacting with people. Empathy, sympathetic and understanding to the needs and emotions of their clients and also be resourceful and creative when solving deficiencies.

I can't think of one of these unique skills you would possess. GG

No wonder you love Gotcha Sarah - probably wish you could get her


----------



## Doris (16 October 2008)

Green08 said:


> Little Social Worker?  Social work is one of the hardest jobs with little praise and acknowledgment.  You wouldn't know what the term really means as you are the most obnoxious self centered person around.
> 
> If you had an inkling you might stop belittling people who work in the field.
> Obama is great with people as social work is about dealing with people mostly individually through various crisis and guidance.  Skills needed are high-level analytic and observational skills, effective listening and communication skills since they are always interacting with people. Empathy, sympathetic and understanding to the needs and emotions of their clients and also be resourceful and creative when solving deficiencies.
> ...




LOL...

One man's garbage is another's provocation for a 'treasure'! 

... only because 'that one' still has his pre-frontal lobes usurped by his amygdala.


----------



## Aussiejeff (16 October 2008)

I'm curious.

Are Barracuda a threatened species?


----------



## Ageo (16 October 2008)

Green08 said:


> Oh assumptions,
> I think most men are great. Even some who support the right side




Define the right side?


----------



## Green08 (16 October 2008)

Ageo said:


> Define the right side?




When I said I have friends who are right sided they are not extremists or heavy duty Christians.  They have their faith but don't try to convert people. They are tolerant of society's changes which are more publicly displayed now.  They can accept failure and compromise.

Defining the right side to me is the ideology derived on the persuasiveness of leaders with psychological personalities for self interest to establish a society based on traditions past and the over use of Christian based religion to justify the exterminate of other countries who are preserved as threatening their security.  They like the statue quo, don't take well to new concepts. 

Being right orientated has a vast meaning from benign to fundamentalism.  I believe the USA as some dangerous fundamentalist who will do any thing to keep the bible belt happy and locked in their unchallenging thought process.  The USA has its own form of propaganda; I watched a very interesting programme on USA students and the weakest subject in schooling by results; that subject - American History.  If you don't understand your history, or question if it was true by self research but chose to believe what benefits you from current media coverage.  You open your self up to failure by repeating the past. 

They are usually insecure (would never admit it), into retaliation most own guns,  ignorant of current world issues, believe the God will save the day and believe they are right all the time.  Not unlike any other religious fundamentalist.  You've got enough fundamentalist in the USA!

The world is changing very fast and peoples thought processes are not keeping up.  Critical analytical skills need to sharpen to see what is happening.  

Do you believe what you see in front of you?   Do you ever think it was planned for you to come to a certain conclusion?  Was what you saw 'real'?   Was the 'reality of what you saw true?'  What truth makes you feel comfortable and safe? 

Manipulation is very easy subliminally or by constant repetition to keep the masses who don't 'Think' under control.  "It is God's will....." has been used to death as an excuse for anything that challenges.

‘The Iraq's have nuclear weapons, lets knock them off.’  Really?  Where?  It has been clearly proven there were none.   

So in the heat of anger, retaliation and shock all sense of reasoning goes out the window.  Where is Bin Laden?  I thought the USA was so up to the moment with weaponry they would have found him by now, he's just in some rocks, right?

Anyway, that is my view I will probably be shot down, that's OK, you asked what I believed.


----------



## Doris (16 October 2008)

Ageo said:


> Define the right side?




lol...

Reminds me of my friends in Orange County...

When I said they drive on the wrong side of the road, they insisted they drive on the right side of the road!


----------



## Ageo (16 October 2008)

No arguments from me, im just curious as to what people think in terms of "left" and "right".

I believe thow that there is no left or right as so many people have different opinions on different things which it makes them both left and right


----------



## Bushman (16 October 2008)

Ageo said:


> No arguments from me, im just curious as to what people think in terms of "left" and "right".
> 
> I believe thow that there is no left or right as so many people have different opinions on different things which it makes them both left and right




Good post. It is so frustrating that people are typecast as being 'left' or 'right'. I mean we have a 'financially conservative' Labour party government now for fooks sake (even though it is interesting that they have just blown half the surplus on fiscal hand outs to the working 'poor' and pensioners). 

'Left' and 'right' is so a World War II/Cold War - errr I am ducking for cover here but dare I say it - 'Baby Boomer' view of the world.


----------



## Green08 (16 October 2008)

Bushman said:


> 'Left' and 'right' is so a World War II/Cold War - errr I am ducking for cover here but dare I say it - 'Baby Boomer' view of the world.




Lets get this right sorry for the pun.

Aego asked me to define right side.

I did define was I think it is.

Do I believe in right and left?

Yes - In the sense that we live in a democracy Labor, Liberal hammering at each other all the time though they can see eye to eye on certain legislation. This can be a good thing, bring new ideas challenge the original idea, come up with a better idea.

Yes - that we have to mandatorally vote for one or the other. Well that's what we are meant to do. Or get Fined. Aego and Bushman do you tick for a party?

No -Sometimes I just write on the form what I think they both should be doing without ticking boxes. Can't fine me I turned up and had my name ticked off. Anyone else challenge the system? 

No -I understand that people can have several views on many topics which may conflict with their basis belief system, this can change from being the viewer to being the participant, peer pressure etc. That is the main part of my argument to use critical analysis. You have a brain use it! 

Bushman get out from under that chair now! I'm not from the baby boomer age and my parents hadn't even met in WW2.


----------



## ZzzzDad (17 October 2008)

A nice uplifting Sarah Palin story and video (for a change)

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/10/sarah-palin-6.html

I'm surprised that the video is actually from MSNBC.


----------



## Nashezz (17 October 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> I'm surprised that the video is actually from MSNBC.




really? Let me guess... MSNBC is a left wing media mouthpiece. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha


----------



## ZzzzDad (22 October 2008)

Nashezz said:


> really? Let me guess... MSNBC is a left wing media mouthpiece. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha




Actually, I don't know anyone that disputes it.  In fact, it is part of their strategy to differentiate themselves from the other cable channels.  Why do you think their prime time lineup is Chris Mathews, David Gregory, K. Olbermann, and Rachel Maddow?  They admit it, so yeah, they are a left wing mouthpiece.  Apparently, you are the only one that doesn't know this.


----------



## Green08 (25 October 2008)

Could you honestly answer my questions?

Would any one on this forum who has a wife, daughter, grandmother (yes grannies can have periods and have been known to conceive in their 60's) or other relative who was raped or was a case of incest force them to have the baby? 
Would you force them to be shunned by society, which happens by certain people, be mentally tormented?   
Would you pay for their rape kit?
Would you seriously be invoved with raising the child if the mother decides she can't cope?
Do you have the finance and ability to seek professional phycological help for someone traumatised and force to have a baby in the way?
If the woman raped / incest is disabled and the likelihood of the child being born with the disability can be quite high - would you be prepared to take on the responsibility of parenting 2 disabled children?

I am a mother of a Autistic son. I would be appalled had he been a girl who could have been put in this position.  If it had been the case I would have terminate the pregnancy.  He is in no way able to care for a baby and I do not have it in me to do it again.  None of you are in a position to judge me (though that would happen) to be a better or worse person.

The argument with adoption will not work with me.   

The fact that she has a child of down syndrome and preaches she understands and will help the disabled is a joke.  She is at the beginning of her life with a disabled child.  There are many more serious disabilities than down syndrome.  

There is NO WAY I would support this woman. 

If men answer this post - I hope you have been in the position of rape, pregnancy and bringing up a child who you didn't want fathered. 




> Sarah Palin's Shameful Treatment of Rape Victims
> 
> As a small town mayor and governor of Alaska, GOP Vice Presidential candidate Sarah Palin doesn’t have much of a track record. But in the search to understand her true character, one of her decisions stands out and should uniquely disqualify her among women voters no matter what their political persuasion.
> 
> ...


----------



## 2020hindsight (25 October 2008)

John Cleese On Sarah Palin  
- comparing her with Michael Pailin 
almost suggesting she should be made an honourary member of Monty Python 

PS green - I'm a man - decline to comment of your post (other than that I agree with the ghist)


----------



## Green08 (25 October 2008)

And you were worried about the wardrobe cost.  Yes I noticed the blonde obvious streak in her pulled back hair recently.  

You would think that at this stage she would know how to put her make up on.   

Now those Obama bashers - Palin is your walking celebrity. 
Obama has chrisma - Palin doesn't know what that is!

At least Obama can do his own hair!



> October 24, 2008, 8:16 am
> *Top Salary in McCain Camp? Palin’s Makeup Stylist*
> By Michael Luo
> Gov. Sarah Palin in Virginia Beach, Va. on Oct. 13. (Photo: Michael Appleton for The New York Times)
> ...


----------



## noirua (25 October 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> John Cleese On Sarah Palin
> - comparing her with Michael Pailin
> almost suggesting she should be made an honourary member of Monty Python
> 
> PS green - I'm a man - decline to comment of your post (other than that I agree with the ghist)




Mind you, the actor, John Cleese, who plays the major part is 2 meters tall.  Perhaps all news is good news for Sarah. Her standing that is, providing she can turn it round to advantage in the last few days of the election campaign.


----------



## Green08 (25 October 2008)

*What’s the Difference Between Palin and a Hockey Mom? 
An $11k-a-Week Lipstick Budget *​You really can’t make this up…


----------



## 2020hindsight (25 October 2008)

noirua said:


> Mind you, the actor, John Cleese, who plays the major part is 2 meters tall.  Perhaps all news is good news for Sarah. Her standing that is, providing she can turn it round to advantage in the last few days of the election campaign.



noi
I don't understand your post ...
but can I ask you to confirm ...  do you think she could handle the US presidency?
PS had you watched that youtube, you'd have heard Cleese's opinion that no more that 10% or even 5% of Europeans think she's up to the task ... 

(personally I'd be terrified of her taking those reins in these troubled times)


----------



## Green08 (25 October 2008)

Yes I'm a  cut and paster learnt the trade from 2020 with no apologies!  Here are some interesting facts. If it drives you nuts then don't read it.  However it has great relevance for a future VP Palin taking on Obama pass the popcorn!



> *Sarah Palin's IQ: no higher than 110*​The starting point for my estimation of Sarah Palin’s IQ is her college career. The fact that she graduated from a four year college at all indicates her IQ is above average (above 100). But her college history seems indicative of someone who was barely able to graduate. It seems as if she couldn’t hack majoring at business at a college in Hawii, and then transferred to community colleges, and finally was able to transfer back to an easy four year college, the University of Idaho, where she graduated with an easy major, journalism. She definitely does not have the college career of someone whose IQ is one standard deviation or more above the man (115 or higher). Thus her IQ is likely somewhere between 100 and 115. Perhaps I was being generous in the previous post where I estimated 110. It could be as little as 100. A person with an IQ of 100 can still graduate from a four year college if she chooses an easy major and attends a non-challenging school such as the University of Idaho.
> 
> Now we must look at evidence of smartness and evidence of dumbness. Evidence of smartness first:
> 
> ...


----------



## Green08 (25 October 2008)

*Top 10 Dumbest Sarah Palin Quotes​*Idiotic Quotes by Republican Vice Presidential Candidate Sarah Palin
By Daniel Kurtzman, About.com


 1. "As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where– where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border." --Sarah Palin, explaining why Alaska's proximity to Russia gives her foreign policy experience, interview with CBS's Katie Couric, Sept. 24, 2008 (Watch video clip)

2. "We believe that the best of America is not all in Washington, D.C. ... We believe that the best of America is in these small towns that we get to visit, and in these wonderful little pockets of what I call the real America, being here with all of you hard working very patriotic, um, very, um, pro-America areas of this great nation." --Sarah Palin, speaking at a fundraiser in Greensoboro, N.C., Oct. 16, 2008

3. "Well, let's see. There's -- of course -- in the great history of America rulings there have been rulings." --Sarah Palin, unable to name a Supreme Court decision she disagreed with other than Roe vs. Wade, interview with Katie Couric, CBS News, Oct. 1, 2008 (Watch video clip)

4. "All of 'em, any of 'em that have been in front of me over all these years." --Sarah Palin, unable to name a single newspaper or magazine she reads, interview with Katie Couric, CBS News, Oct. 1, 2008 (Watch video clip)

5. "They are also building schools for the Afghan children so that there is hope and opportunity in our neighboring country of Afghanistan." --Sarah Palin, speaking at a fundraiser in San Francisco, Oct. 5, 2008

6. "Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending soldiers out on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan." –Sarah Pailn, on the Iraq war, speaking to students at the Wasilla Assembly of God, June 2008 (Watch video clip)

7. "As for that VP talk all the time, I'll tell you, I still can't answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the VP does every day?" --Sarah Palin, interview with CNBC's "Kudlow & Co," July 31, 2008 (Watch video clip)

8. "[T]hey're in charge of the U.S. Senate so if they want to they can really get in there with the senators and make a lot of good policy changes that will make life better for Brandon and his family and his classroom." --Sarah Palin, getting the vice president's constitutional role wrong after being asked by a third grader what the vice president does, interview with NBC affiliate KUSA in Colorado, Oct. 21, 2008 (Watch video clip)

9. "I told the Congress, 'Thanks, but no thanks,' on that Bridge to Nowhere." –Sarah Palin, who was for the Bridge to Nowhere before she was against it

10. "I'm the mayor, I can do whatever I want until the courts tell me I can't.'" --Sarah Palin, as quoted by former City Council Member Nick Carney, after he raised objections about the $50,000 she spent renovating the mayor's office without approval of the city council

~Compiled by Daniel Kurtzman


----------



## Green08 (25 October 2008)

This takes merchandising to new highs



> *Palin To Offer Sarah Barracuda Line Of Lipstick *​
> Cleveland, OH. – Alaska Governor and GOP VP candidate Sarah Palin today announced her plan to sell a “Sarah Barracuda” line of lipstick. Gathered at a Cleveland hotel, with John McCain at her side with a glowing smile of school boy with a crush, Mrs. Palin told reporters of her plans to start selling a full line of lip gloss.
> 
> _Hoping to capitalize on a wave of popularity, fresh after her speech at the republican convention two weeks ago in which she told GOP faithful that the “Difference between a hockey mom and a pit pull is lipstick.” Mrs. Palin hopes to have her lipstick line in retail stores by November 4_, kicking off both a post presidential election celebration for John McCain and herself and also in time for the holiday shopping season at the same time.
> ...




Try her brand and various colours on a pig , sorry  rabbits. Animal activist engage force.


----------



## noirua (26 October 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> noi
> I don't understand your post ...
> but can I ask you to confirm ...  do you think she could handle the US presidency?
> PS had you watched that youtube, you'd have heard Cleese's opinion that no more that 10% or even 5% of Europeans think she's up to the task ...
> ...



2020, Could I ask you a question first.  Would Sarah Palin do better than George Bush?  If yes, give her the role. 
As to John Cleese, he spends his time on American soaps that pay him a bundle for only being a bit funny. I doubt he knows anything about European surveys and I also doubt that many Europeans have ever heard of Sarah Palin.


----------



## 2020hindsight (26 October 2008)

noirua said:


> 2020, Could I ask you a question first.  Would Sarah Palin do better than George Bush?  If yes, give her the role.




gee noi, that is the strangest endorsement for a US president.

It's one thing to crawl across the line in a totally rehearsed (parrot fashion) debate - but it's another to run the USA.  


PS she's on par with - if not just as bad as - GW Bush.


----------



## 2020hindsight (26 October 2008)

> Would Sarah Palin do better than George Bush? If yes, give her the role.




PS You're right they have a few things in common - but I think Palin would be even worse than Bush (believe it or not).


----------



## CoffeeKing (26 October 2008)

Aussiejeff said:


> I'm curious.
> 
> Are Barracuda a threatened species?




Don't think so...

Thier faaasssst, big mouthed and sharp teeth ( thats razor - as in cutthroat )


----------



## Aussiejeff (27 October 2008)

CoffeeKing said:


> Don't think so...
> 
> Thier faaasssst, big mouthed and sharp teeth ( thats razor - as in cutthroat )




Wow!

Man, THAT'S the Super Duo I would vote for!! They are so HOT!!

USA, [size=+1]USA[/size], [size=+2]USA[/size]


----------



## 2020hindsight (28 October 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_V1mIXH6AA
embedded:-
 Palin goes rogue?
"hard to understand the self-inflicted damage going on" 
"an army in retreat typically gets into some disarray" ...


----------



## CoffeeKing (28 October 2008)

Ooops dang poobah  spell mistake

I must write "their" 100 times, so here goes...

their 100 times - now that wasn't hard was it, phew


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (28 October 2008)

Won't you leftie MNBC watchers be so upset when McCain and Palin sneak over the line.

Washington aristocrats and posting wannabees watch out.

The polls are turning.

gg


----------



## 2020hindsight (29 October 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> "hard to understand the self-inflicted damage going on"



ABC article agrees that there were tensions, quotes McCain that there are disagreements between them, but all's cosy again because ... they say it is 
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/10/29/2404153.htm



> Senator McCain, 72, acknowledged he had not always seen eye-to-eye with Ms Palin, 44, the socially conservative Alaska Governor whose selection as vice-presidential pick has been questioned by critics from left and right.
> 
> "When two mavericks join up they don't agree on everything but that's a lot of fun," Senator McCain said ...




Vote 1, the schizophrenic team


----------



## Calliope (1 November 2008)

From the editorial in The Australian today; 



> Speaking of Sarah Palin, the extraordinary reaction to her nomination speaks volumes about America and the Zeitgeist, which prevails in the urban enclaves where the left-liberal establishment is usually to be found.
> 
> To understand the Palin phenomenon, we must first discount almost everything written about her in _The New York Times, The Age or The Sydney Morning Herald._ She is not, let's face it, their type of feminist.
> 
> But Palin is a remarkable politician who has displayed a remarkable ability to connect with Middle America - the folksy attributes which so infuriate her detractors, are the very qualities that make her a powerful force for the Republicans. Don't be fooled; whether they win or lose the Republican vote will be enhanced by Palin


----------



## gav (1 November 2008)

How funny is this?! I just wish Arnie called him a "girly man!" 

From news.com.au

"Schwarzenegger mocks 'skinny' Barack Obama"

November 01, 2008 12:06pm

MUSCLEMAN-turned-actor-turned-politician Arnold Schwarzenegger has called on Barack Obama to beef up his his policies - and his body - at a rally for Republican John McCain. 
Mr Schwarzenegger, the Hollywood action hero who is now the Republican governor of California, delighted a crowd of several thousand at a McCain campaign event in Columbus, Ohio, 
today by ridiculing both Obama's policies and his slender physique. 

The Austrian-born former Mr Universe has hosted a bodybuilding tournament in Columbus for several years, and opened his address by inviting Senator Obama to participate in the next event. 

"Every year in March I come here to organise the Arnold Classic, which is all about building the body and pumping," Mr Schwarzenegger said. 

"That's why I want to invite Senator Obama because he needs to do something about those skinny legs. I'm going to make him do some squats. 

"And then we're going to make him do some biceps curls to beef up those scrawny little arms. But if he could only do something about putting some meat on his ideas. 

"Senator McCain on the other hand is built like a rock. His character and his views are solid." 

Senator McCain and Mr Schwarzenegger rolled into the Nationwide Arena Hockey Stadium together on the Republican candidate's campaign bus the "Straight Talk Express". 

While Senator McCain received loud cheers, it was Schwarzenegger who provided some much-needed glamour and the biggest cheers with a searing attack on Senator Obama's economic policies.

He painted former Vietnam War prisoner and navy pilot Senator McCain as a "real-life American hero".


----------



## Miner (1 November 2008)

US Election is coming and every one is predicting Obama to win

All my interest is to see US economy to lift again to support the connected economies including Australian Economy

But I got a nasty feeling that to make full circle of Yankee idiotic financial turmoil there could be a swing to get McCain and Darling Sarah Palin to be elected. I hate it to see but who listens. The market fell down against my wishes so 
1 Nov 08


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (1 November 2008)

Miner said:


> US Election is coming and every one is predicting Obama to win
> 
> All my interest is to see US economy to lift again to support the connected economies including Australian Economy
> 
> ...




Its not over Miner, until its over.

Wednesday you'll know.

gg


----------



## Knobby22 (2 November 2008)

Sarah hopes to be President in 8 years. Maybe Dan Quayle can be her running mate! In the meantime she can kill some baby seals. A girl after your heart Gumnut

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/02/2407909.htm?section=justin

US vice presidential hopeful Sarah Palin fell prey to a Canadian prankster when he called her impersonating French President Nicolas Sarkozy and got her to accept an invitation to hunt baby seals.

In an over-the-top French accent, a member of the Quebec comedy duo The Masked Avengers, famous for tricking celebrities and politicians including Mr Sarkozy himself, asked if Ms Palin would take him on a hunting trip by helicopter, and then in French said they could also go kill baby seals.

An apparently oblivious Ms Palin said she thought that would be fun. 

"We could have a lot of fun together as we're getting work done. We could kill two birds with one stone that way," she said.

The prankster also got Ms Palin, Republican John McCain's running mate in Tuesday's US presidential election, to reveal a potential ambition for the top job in Washington.

Asked if she would like to eventually become president, the Alaska governor responded, "Well, maybe in eight years."


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (2 November 2008)

Knobby22 said:


> Sarah hopes to be President in 8 years. Maybe Dan Quayle can be her running mate! In the meantime she can kill some baby seals. A girl after your heart Gumnut
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/02/2407909.htm?section=justin
> 
> ...




Americans are much more naive than others I must agree. I don't know why that is.

Perhaps ask the ole Bill Clinton who thought that the only b**w job he got in 8 years in the Presidency would remain a secret.

gg


----------



## Julia (2 November 2008)

Knobby22 said:


> Sarah hopes to be President in 8 years. Maybe Dan Quayle can be her running mate! In the meantime she can kill some baby seals. A girl after your heart Gumnut
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/02/2407909.htm?section=justin
> 
> ...




This is a pretty funny story, Knobby.  I started to laugh, then remembered that this is the woman that a significant proportion of the American population would be happy to have as President, should Mr McCain experience some life threatening event.


----------



## Nashezz (3 November 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Americans are much more naive than others I must agree. I don't know why that is.
> 
> Perhaps ask the ole Bill Clinton who thought that the only b**w job he got in 8 years in the Presidency would remain a secret.
> 
> gg




I think it is mostly because they are bought up to believe there IS no better place then the US, and their media reports on little else. Papers like the LA Times have a ludicrously small section devoted to World news and unless America is directly involved (ie Iraq) they tend to not report on it. NPR (National Public Radio) was the only news source that seemed to eschew this. Plenty of people I spoke to over there were not planning to travel outside of the US because they said "Why would I go anywhere else?".


----------



## Schmuckie (3 November 2008)

Here's the transcript, courtesy of Toronto's _Globe and Mail_

Sarah Palin: This is Sarah.

Masked Avengers: Ah, yeah, Gov. Palin.

Palin: Hello.

Avengers: Just hold on for President Sarkozy, one moment.

P: Oh, it's not him yet, they're saying. I always do that.

A: Yes, hello, Gov. Palin.

P: Hello, this is Sarah, how are you?

A: Fine, and you? This is Nicolas Sarkozy speaking, how are you?

P: Oh, it's so good to hear you. Thank you for calling us.

A: Oh, it's a pleasure.

P: Thank you sir, we have such great respect for you, John McCain and I. We love you and thank you for taking a few minutes to talk to me.

A: I follow your campaigns closely with my special American adviser Johnny Hallyday, you know?

P: Yes, good.

A: Excellent. Are you confident?

P: Very confident and we're thankful that polls are showing that the race is tightening and...

A: Well I know very well that the campaign can be exhausting. How do you feel right now, my dear?

P: I feel so good. I feel like we're in a marathon and at the very end of the marathon you get your second wind and you plow to the finish.

A: You see, I got elected in France because I'm real and you seem to be someone who's real, as well.

P: Yes, yeah. Nico, we so appreciate this opportunity.

A: You know I see you as a president one day, too.

P: Maybe in eight years.

A: Well, I hope for you. You know, we have a lot in common because personally one of my favourite activities is to hunt, too.

P: Oh, very good. We should go hunting together.

A: Exactly, we could try go hunting by helicopter like you did. I never did that. Like we say in French, on pourrait tuer des bebe phoque s, aussi. 

P: Well, I think we could have a lot of fun together while we're getting work done. We can kill two birds with one stone that way.

A: I just love killing those animals. Mmm, mmm, take away life, that is so fun. I'd really love to go, so long as we don't bring along Vice-President Cheney.

P: No, I'll be a careful shot, yes.

A: Yes, you know we have a lot in common also, because except from my house I can see Belgium. That's kind of less interesting than you.

P: Well, see, we're right next door to different countries that we all need to be working with, yes.

A: Some people said in the last days and I thought that was mean that you weren't experienced enough in foreign relations and you know that's completely false. That's the thing that I said to my great friend, the prime minister of Canada Stef Carse.

P: Well, he's doing fine, too, and yeah, when you come into a position underestimated it gives you an opportunity to prove the pundits and the critics wrong. You work that much harder.

A: I was wondering because you are so next to him, one of my good friends, the prime minister of Quebec, Mr. Richard Z. Sirois, have you met him recently? Did he come to one of your rallies?

P: I haven't seen him at one of the rallies but it's been great working with the Canadian officials. I know as governor we have a great co-operative effort there as we work on all of our resource-development projects. You know, I look forward to working with you and getting to meet you personally and your beautiful wife. Oh my goodness, you've added a lot of energy to your country with that beautiful family of yours.

A: Thank you very much. You know my wife Carla would love to meet you, even though you know she was a bit jealous that I was supposed to speak to you today.

P: Well, give her a big hug for me.

A: You know my wife is a popular singer and a former top model and she's so hot in bed. She even wrote a song for you.

P: Oh my goodness, I didn't know that.

A: Yes, in French it's called de rouge a levre sur un cochon, or if you prefer in English, Joe the Plumber...it's his life, Joe the Plumber.

P: Maybe she understands some of the unfair criticism but I bet you she is such a hard worker, too, and she realizes you just plow through that criticism.

A: I just want to be sure. That phenomenon Joe the Plumber. That's not your husband, right?

P: That's not my husband but he's a normal American who just works hard and doesn't want government to take his money.

A: Yes, yes, I understand we have the equivalent of Joe the Plumber in France. It's called Marcel, the guy with bread under his armpit.

P: Right, that's what it's all about, the middle class and government needing to work for them. You're a very good example for us here.

A: I see a bit about NBC, even Fox News wasn't an ally as much as usual.

P: Yeah, that's what we're up against.

A: Gov. Palin, I love the documentary they made on your life. You know Hustler's Nailin' Paylin?

P: Ohh, good, thank you, yes.

A: That was really edgy.

P: Well, good.

A: I really loved you and I must say something also, governor, you've been pranked by the Masked Avengers. We are two comedians from Montreal.

P: Ohhh, have we been pranked? And what radio station is this?

A: CKOI in Montreal.

P: In Montreal? Tell me the radio station call letters.

A: CK...hello?


----------



## Nyden (3 November 2008)

Nashezz said:


> I think it is mostly because they are bought up to believe there IS no better place then the US, and their media reports on little else. Papers like the LA Times have a ludicrously small section devoted to World news and unless America is directly involved (ie Iraq) they tend to not report on it. NPR (National Public Radio) was the only news source that seemed to eschew this. Plenty of people I spoke to over there were not planning to travel outside of the US because they said "Why would I go anywhere else?".




Somewhat off topic, but Australia seems to be headed in that direction as well ... "The lucky country"  Our pollies seem to indulge in it often enough too. Then again, perhaps every country feels that it's the best. Perhaps patriotism is just what the elite instill in the hearts and minds of fools in order to maintain the status quot :


----------



## Aussiejeff (3 November 2008)

Nyden said:


> Somewhat off topic, but Australia seems to be headed in that direction as well ... "The lucky country"  Our pollies seem to indulge in it often enough too. Then again, perhaps every country feels that it's the best. *Perhaps patriotism is just what the elite instill in the hearts and minds of fools in order to maintain the status quot* :




Let's face it - how would the human race EVER have managed to fight all those endless "wars to end all wars" over the millenia without a little "patriotism/tribalism" thrown into the mix?

It all started when caveman Ugg said to caveman Ogg "Grmmph ... **shakes big axe at head of Ogg** ... Ugg-men beat Ogg-men all time ... Grrowl"  :axt:




aj


----------



## Nyden (3 November 2008)

Aussiejeff said:


> Let's face it - how would the human race EVER have managed to fight all those endless "wars to end all wars" over the millenia without a little "patriotism/tribalism" thrown into the mix?
> 
> It all started when caveman Ugg said to caveman Ogg "Grmmph ... **shakes big axe at head of Ogg** ... Ugg-men beat Ogg-men all time ... Grrowl"  :axt:
> 
> ...




Oh, I completely agree. Without religion and patriotism ... the sheep would be too difficult to control. Who would die for a country without the promise of a blissful afterlife? Who would die for a piece of land were it not for the undying love of it?

I know I certainly wouldn't die for any cause, nor would I endure any form of pain! I guess we do need the drones, I'm personally more inclined to join the ranks of said elite though


----------



## Calliope (3 November 2008)

Prominent visitors to America over the years including Charles Darwin and Oscar Wilde, have found it remarkable that such shrewd , hardheaded business people can be so gullible when it comes to matters outside their immediate interests.

This is the land of evangelists where smooth talkers like Billy Graham and Martin Luther King drew massive audiences with the promise of a better life and salvation.

Tomorrow we are going to see Americans joyfully embrace with evangelical zeal the biggest scam perpetrated on a nation since Princess Diana was elevated to sainthood.


----------



## Julia (3 November 2008)

Schmuckie, thanks for posting the transcript.   It doesn't make her look as bad without the previously suggested reference to killing the baby seals.


----------



## Knobby22 (3 November 2008)

Julia said:


> Schmuckie, thanks for posting the transcript.   It doesn't make her look as bad without the previously suggested reference to killing the baby seals.




True

You can't trust the media, even in Australia.


----------



## ZzzzDad (3 November 2008)

Calliope said:


> Tomorrow we are going to see Americans joyfully embrace with evangelical zeal the biggest scam perpetrated on a nation since Princess Diana was elevated to sainthood.




Don't be so sure - the latest IBD/TIPP daily tracking poll has it a two point race:

IBD/TIPP 10/29 - 11/01  Obama 47  McCain 45  and 8% not sure or undecided.  This was the most accurate poll in 2004.  This race is closing fast.  Undecideds are breaking for McCain - the safe choice, and Sarah is bringing out the Republican base BIG TIME.


----------



## Bushman (3 November 2008)

Nyden said:


> Somewhat off topic, but Australia seems to be headed in that direction as well ... "The lucky country"  Our pollies seem to indulge in it often enough too. Then again, perhaps every country feels that it's the best. Perhaps patriotism is just what the elite instill in the hearts and minds of fools in order to maintain the status quot :




I just hope that we never have this drawn out 'presidential race'. It has been going on for 18 months. What a waste of time and effort. 

Just get on with it because the world needs a stable US whether it is led by Obama or Gramps.


----------



## Schmuckie (3 November 2008)

Julia said:


> Schmuckie, thanks for posting the transcript.   It doesn't make her look as bad without the previously suggested reference to killing the baby seals.




Reports in the Canadian media have also talked about killing baby seals - that was the part that was "Like we say in French, on pourrait tuer des bebe phoque s, aussi."  No one is taking her to task for that, but it was part of the comedic routine of slipping one past her.

BTW, the Prime Minister of Canada is Stephen Harper, not Stef Carse, and the Premier (a.k.a. Prime Minister) of Quebec is Jean Charest.  Unless she didn't hear the speaker properly, it's inexcusable that she didn't know the name of the Prime Minister of Canada.

I did get a chance to hear the voice version.  She basically sounded like an idiot.  Scary to think she could be one heartbeat away from the presidency of the United States.


----------



## chops_a_must (4 November 2008)

Calliope said:


> Tomorrow we are going to see Americans joyfully embrace with evangelical zeal the biggest scam perpetrated on a nation since Princess Diana was elevated to sainthood.



As opposed to what?

The non scam of continuing the crusades from the last 8 years?


----------



## Nyden (4 November 2008)

Schmuckie said:


> I did get a chance to hear the voice version.  She basically sounded like an idiot.  Scary to think she could be one heartbeat away from the presidency of the United States.




Entirely agree. She sounded like a ditzy receptionist, not a VP 

 ... on the bright side, Tina Fey could always fill in for her.


----------



## Green08 (4 November 2008)

If Palin do get in you have it recorded from the weekend.

She is an stupid, self centered and willful person who shows no judgment.
Lacks Critical Analysis or the basic ability to question?


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (4 November 2008)

Green08 said:


> If Palin do get in you have it recorded from the weekend.
> 
> She is an stupid, self centered and willful person who shows no judgment.
> Lacks Critical Analysis or the basic ability to question?




Jimmy Carter ????

She's better than him imo, and your precis describes him, Jimmy Carter, more than her.

At least we won't see Sarah in Playboy.

It amazes me how feminists are so threatened by her.

What is it about her that freaks you out so much?

gg


----------



## treefrog (4 November 2008)

Green08 said:


> If Palin do get in you have it recorded from the weekend.
> 
> She is an stupid, self centered and willful person who shows no judgment.
> Lacks Critical Analysis or the basic ability to question?




agree green but that is 90% of americans: little doubt the rest of the world is hoping for someone with an ouce of reason from the other 10% (like obama) but somehow I just feel the status quo will remain.


----------



## Green08 (4 November 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Jimmy Carter ????
> 
> At least we won't see Sarah in Playboy.
> 
> ...




No discussing Carter - this is about Palin

Not sure why you brought up Playboy.

I'm not so sure she would turn down Playboy. I'll have a look at her history as a beauty pageant queen from the pictures I didn't see her as bunny material, though you might or she might - of course that depends on what you find appealing, she if she did anything which you elude to I'll post it for you.  She loves the limelight. No problem there.  But she loves it in a very self centered way.  

You on the other hand lump people into categories without much thought that certain views can be held mid way.  I don't burn bras - Christies is far to expensive to do that to.  I don't hate men as explained to you in numerous posts I enjoy their company, my partner is South African. Laser my legs, were Chanel No5.  Perhaps you don't know these wonderful female items

Do you think I'm a feminist as I'm not subservient? Which religion do you belong to?  3rd wife quite a record - who decided to leave whom? Why?

Again attack me. I'm not freaked out by her, just utterly amazed that a potential VP could be this gullible.  Not a good sign to govern.  - I think that is a reasonable conclusion.

Why do you dislike me so much?


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (4 November 2008)

Green08 said:


> No discussing Carter - this is about Palin
> 
> Not sure why you brought up Playboy.
> 
> ...




I ask again what freaks you out about Sarah.

If she were a left wing candidate you'd be lauding her self sufficiency, ability to take on entrenched male powerbases, and the fact that she is a woman willling to broach an all male preserve, i.e. Washington politics.

What would Biden do for your causes?

gg


----------



## Green08 (4 November 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I ask again what freaks you out about Sarah.
> 
> If she were a left wing candidate you'd be lauding her self sufficiency, ability to take on entrenched male powerbases, and the fact that she is a woman willling to broach an all male preserve, i.e. Washington politics.
> 
> What would Biden do for your causes?




I don't find Hillary Clinton "freaky" I would trust her with many decisions she has proven with commitment to her personal goals to help her people.

Palin has none of this.   She was picked up and placed on a pedestal.

Hillary is a proven intellect and worked her way to her position.

I am entitled to my opinion.  Perhaps it has not occurred to you I don't like her personality.  I'm not “Freaked” by her as a person.  She couldn't pick out the worst accent of a French impersonator - Foreign credentials. Shocking VP  choice. 

I find it interesting that you keep calling me a "left winger", why? I guess you’re not into liberal thinking.  

I respect Obama for overcoming so many personal obstacles, to never lose sight of his dream and finally be a position that he dreamt of.  That should be in inspiration to many Americans even global citizens that you can achieve what you want even with adversity.  His high intellect should also be given credit as inspiration to young Americans to study hard, think laterally and achieve.  

You seem so smittened with her you don’t even question any faults. Objectivity is important.  I have a feeling you may be one of those less educated God loving Americans on our soil.  But who knows you could be a professor of Law at NSW Uni with strong views.  Your entitled to your opinion.

You bombard me with questions..  Why don't you answer my questions?  You keep attacking me on menial things. Answer my questions should you want a discussion or is educated dialogue beyond you? 

What would Biden do for my causes?  I'm not a USA citizen so they would not be my causes.  As my view as to how he would benefit the USA over Palin.  He has many years of experience, many high positioned contacts and is held with high regard by those he has built up political strengths internationally over the years.  He is not infallible, no one is.  I am looking at the persons credentials which include experience, ability to analysis and be malleable to situations which age and wisdom bring.

I would think that many world leaders are aware of Palin's conversation on the weekend and are probably laughing thinking, ok this one's a push over, and should she get in the world will be privy to many more public errors from Palin.

I do recall asking you; What would you suggest to victims of incest and rape as treatment and forced pregnancy, leaving a woman with a great deal of mental turmoil.  You support her view on this, why and how would you fix the problem?


----------



## Julia (4 November 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> It amazes me how feminists are so threatened by her.
> 
> What is it about her that freaks you out so much?
> 
> gg



A logical question in response to this silly observation is to ask you, g.g. if every male whom 
(a) you dislike
(b) you feel is entirely unqualified for the job he is seeking
(c) professes life choices which you find repugnant

ipso facto represents a threat to you personally?

Of course not.

I doubt most sensible, intelligent women who have declared their distaste for all that Ms Palin represents feel 'freaked out' by her.   Rather, they are more likely to be experiencing pure astonishment that such a woman can even be running for such an office.


----------



## doctorj (4 November 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> If she were a left wing candidate you'd be lauding her self sufficiency, ability to take on entrenched male powerbases, and the fact that she is a woman willling to broach an all male preserve, i.e. Washington politics.



I think the picture says it all.  GG if you're going to argue so patiently, at least make sense!


----------



## chops_a_must (4 November 2008)

Julia said:


> I doubt most sensible, intelligent women who have declared their distaste for all that Ms Palin represents feel 'freaked out' by her.   Rather, they are more likely to be experiencing pure astonishment that such a woman can even be running for such an office.




It's called the evolutionary trade off I do believe Julia.


----------



## Schmuckie (5 November 2008)

Nyden said:


> Entirely agree. She sounded like a ditzy receptionist, not a VP
> 
> ... on the bright side, Tina Fey could always fill in for her.




A small part of my office duties include reception.  I resent that! LOL


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (5 November 2008)

Green08 said:


> I don't find Hillary Clinton "freaky" I would trust her with many decisions she has proven with commitment to her personal goals to help her people.
> 
> Palin has none of this.   She was picked up and placed on a pedestal.
> 
> ...





Green08 you have answered my question, thanks.

btw Jimmy Carter did make an appearance in Playboy, I don't subscribe so check your back copies.

The left live in lala Simpson land, led by the next Letterman show.

I also thought it funny and good by the way that Palin was taken in bythe Canadian Sarkozy impersenator. good on them.

And yes, I am a worker and more in contact with working people than many on this forum. I'm not a yank,

I admire them though. I admire McCain especially. Obama I admire. Palin I admire. Biden is a dickead and one round away from the presidency, and that is scary. He would be another Bush.

Palin has been done over by a mob of hairy legged feminists and clowns on late night US TV. 

And she's not the brightest star in the sky. But that doesn't disqualify one from being VP.

I don't go over old posts so can't comment on SA.

I find racism, abortion and genocide so distressing and personal  for so many people that I avoid discussing it if at all possible, having known people who have suffered all three. 

Geniuses like you have the answers , workers like me just gaze on.

gg


----------



## chops_a_must (5 November 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Biden is a dickead and one round away from the presidency, and that is scary. He would be another Bush.
> 
> Palin has been done over by a mob of hairy legged feminists and clowns on late night US TV.
> 
> And she's not the brightest star in the sky. But that doesn't disqualify one from being VP.



Hmmm... no, being a dunce doesn't disqualify you from being president even... And that leads to great results right?

And funny you are scared of Biden for that reason stipulated, because most I talk to think of Palin as a female incarnation of Bush.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (5 November 2008)

chops_a_must said:


> Hmmm... no, being a dunce doesn't disqualify you from being president even... And that leads to great results right?
> 
> And funny you are scared of Biden for that reason stipulated, because most I talk to think of Palin as a female incarnation of Bush.




Yes mate, agree, but she is a woman and women are usually smarter than men as leaders.

Biden would be an absolute disaster, and all it needs is one redneck nutter to put him in.

gg


----------



## Nashezz (6 November 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Yes mate, agree, but she is a woman and women are usually smarter than men as leaders.
> 
> Biden would be an absolute disaster, and all it needs is one redneck nutter to put him in.
> 
> gg




You sure say some odd things GG. "Women are smarter than men as leaders"

You admit she is thick as a post and yet say she would be ok to lead the current world superpower cause she is a chick???????

Mate, I think you'll need a ladder to get out of the hole your in.


----------



## derty (6 November 2008)

Even Fox News is saying Palin is as dumb as dogdoodoo - The Republicans are now setting her up as a scapegoat.


----------



## sam76 (6 November 2008)

Good find.

I think we'll never hear from Palin again.

Man she was a bad choice.


----------



## 2020hindsight (7 November 2008)

Someone said she had applied to be American Ambassador to Africa


----------



## Julia (7 November 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> Someone said she had applied to be American Ambassador to Africa




That will probably work for her, now that she has been informed that Africa is a continent, not a country.

The astonishing thing is that her confidence is apparently undented, as she refuses to rule out a run for the Presidency in four years!


----------



## Doris (8 November 2008)

Julia said:


> The astonishing thing is that her confidence is apparently undented, as she refuses to rule out a run for the Presidency in four years!




I think it's pathetic that the GOP is sending lawyers with an inventory to pick up all items bought for Palin and family.

I think she's earned them!


----------



## Julia (8 November 2008)

Well, if that's true (and I'd be surprised), what are they then going to do with the dreaded clothes?  Auction them off?  They'd probably bring quite a tidy sum from her fans.


----------



## gav (8 November 2008)

Julia said:


> That will probably work for her, now that she has been informed that Africa is a continent, not a country.




Sure, why not?  If Obama can be the President of a country which he thinks has 57 states!


----------



## 2020hindsight (8 November 2008)

gav said:


> Sure, why not?  If Obama can be the President of a country which he thinks has 57 states!



Could it be ( I'm guessing)  he meant 47 ? - since he still had one more of the contiguous states, and then Alaska and Hawaii ?


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (8 November 2008)

Palin sounds like a real threat to you guys.

She's lost an election, been humiliated and castigated by a left wing media.

And still you can't let her go.

She sounds like a huge threat to your entrenched ideas.

gg


----------



## gav (8 November 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> Could it be ( I'm guessing)  he meant 47 ? - since he still had one more of the contiguous states, and then Alaska and Hawaii ?




No more of a mistake than Palin getting Africa confused, yet only Palin gets slammed about it all over the media.

Im not a fan of Palin though, just trying to put things into perspective...


----------



## 2020hindsight (8 November 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Palin sounds like a real threat to you guys.




gg 
Palin is only a threat to the Alaskan wildlife
and of course the planet 

except for that, why would a dunce be a threat to anyone here?


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (8 November 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> gg
> Palin is only a threat to the Alaskan wildlife
> and of course the planet
> 
> except for that, why would a dunce be a threat to anyone here?




karma 2020

we are all a threat to the planet

gg


----------



## 2020hindsight (8 November 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> karma 2020
> 
> we are all a threat to the planet
> 
> gg



gg, 
true 
but the ones who are in power and who deny any global warming and any responsibility or desire to improve our ways - they are the bigger threat (imo).

I'd still like to see politicians made legally responsible for the effects of global warming and/or inaction to mitigate said effects.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (8 November 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> gg,
> true
> but the ones who are in power and who deny any global warming and any responsibility or desire to improve our ways - they are the bigger threat (imo).
> 
> I'd still like to see politicians made legally responsible for the effects of global warming and/or inaction to mitigate said effects.




agree mate
overpopulation
flatus
probably contribute more to warmening than coal mining

ton gg ue in cheek


----------



## derty (8 November 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Palin sounds like a real threat to you guys.
> 
> She's lost an election, been humiliated and castigated by a left wing media



Well the right wing media are fully slipping the boot into her too now, and doing a much better job of humiliating her too. They are the masters after all. She's damaged goods and the GOP needs a scapegoat. I'll be surprised if she is back in 2012.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (8 November 2008)

derty said:


> Well the right wing media are fully slipping the boot into her too now, and doing a much better job of humiliating her too. They are the masters after all. She's damaged goods and the GOP needs a scapegoat. I'll be surprised if she is back in 2012.




Agree mate , but the Romans ignored the Bogans and it led to the Dark Ages.

These folk have opinions. procreate and try not to do bad by their neighbours.

Because they are not articulate or able to deal with the Lettermans of the world, they get crucified.

The politically correct have Obama, what about the 47% ?

gg


----------



## Nashezz (9 November 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Agree mate , but the Romans ignored the Bogans and it led to the Dark Ages.
> 
> These folk have opinions. procreate and try not to do bad by their neighbours.
> 
> ...




A pit?


----------



## sam76 (11 November 2008)

It's time to go..............Sarah





Palin wants God to show her way to White House

November 11, 2008 - 2:31PM 

Defeated Republican vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin said today she hopes God will "show her the way" before she decides on any future bid for the White House.

The Alaska governor declined to say whether she was planning to run for the US presidency in four years, stating in an exclusive interview with the Fox News Channel that 2012 remained too far off.

"I can't predict what's going to happen a day from now, much less four years from now," Palin said, according to excerpts of the interview released by Fox News before its broadcast in Washington at 10pm (1400 AEDT).

However the devoutly religious 44-year-old mother-of-five said that if God wanted her to run for the highest office, she hoped to be shown the way.

"You know, I have - faith is a very big part of my life. And putting my life in my creator's hands - this is what I always do," Palin said.

"I'm like, OK God, if there is an open door for me somewhere, this is what I always pray, I'm like, don't let me miss the open door. Show me where the open door is," she added.

"Even if it's cracked up a little bit, maybe I'll plough right on through that and maybe prematurely plough through it, but don't let me miss an open door.

"And if there is an open door in '12 or four years later, and if it is something that is going to be good for my family, for my state, for my nation, an opportunity for me, then I'll plough through that door."

Palin's faith was scrutinised during the election campaign after an internet video surfaced showing her being blessed by a Kenyan witch-hunter in a 2005 service at a Pentecostal church in Alaska.

A second video surfaced showing Palin telling students at a church in Alaska that United States forces in Iraq had been sent on a "task that is from God".


----------



## Doris (22 November 2008)

*Incredible Sarah Palin Turkey Video* 

A friend in Canada just sent this:

"I heard about this on the news while I was driving in the car, but hadn't seen the clip yet! 
OMG, what was she thinking, he's killing those turkeys, blood everywhere and she acts like nothing is going on!
Apparently she was asked if this was ok, and she was fine with it!"



> "Certainly we'll probably invite criticism for even doing this but at least this was fun."




This is surreal.  How sick is this!


----------



## mayk (22 November 2008)

Doris said:


> *Incredible Sarah Palin Turkey Video*
> 
> A friend in Canada just sent this:
> 
> ...





Do you think by hiding the killing from public will make any difference. 

90% of the people criticizing this video will eat a turkey on their thanksgiving. Hate to say but it is just getting ridiculous...The hypocrisy is deafening...


----------



## 2020hindsight (22 November 2008)

Doris said:


> *Incredible Sarah Palin Turkey Video*
> 
> A friend in Canada just sent this:
> 
> ...




Lol - getting ready for thanksgiving 
You wonder if turkeys' genes have a code that makes 'em nervous every November? lol.

Must admit one of my few memories of my Grandad was helping him cut off the head of a chook one Easter lol.   Back in the days when a chook was a real treat (and chooks/chickens lead a happier life) !


----------



## Doris (22 November 2008)

mayk said:


> Do you think by hiding the killing from public will make any difference.
> 
> 90% of the people criticizing this video will eat a turkey on their thanksgiving. Hate to say but it is just getting ridiculous...The hypocrisy is deafening...






2020hindsight said:


> Must admit one of my few memories of my Grandad was helping him cut off the head of a chook one Easter lol.   Back in the days when a chook was a real treat (and chooks/chickens lead a happier life) !




There has got to be a public outrage for a more humane death!  

At least when a headless chook runs around the yard its brain does not feel pain! Death was quick!

How could Palin be so cheerful and chirpy with the terror being inflicted?!


----------



## 2020hindsight (22 November 2008)

Doris said:


> At least when a headless chook runs around the yard its brain does not feel pain!



It does if it trips and hits its head, half-hinged or whatever,  on the axehandle or something!


----------



## mayk (22 November 2008)

Doris said:


> How could Palin be so cheerful and chirpy with the terror being inflicted?!




So, I suppose you are a Vegetarian? If no, then getting the chicken /turkey from the coles will not make it humane or terrorless. What was she supposed to do run around crying for help?


----------



## 2020hindsight (22 November 2008)

Hell I just thought Sarah would have more sense than to pose in the same photo as a turkey that has reached its use-by date


----------



## Doris (22 November 2008)

2020hindsight said:


> It does if it trips and hits its head, half-hinged or whatever,  on the axehandle or something!




Headless... 2020!  
You recall a struggling half-hinged-headed chook when helping your Grandad? 

I was five when I first saw my Dad chop a chook in the backyard in Brisbane.
It was a quick and clean chop but watching it run around headless was bad enough!

I have to wonder if Palin ever feels any compassion - wolf bounties, polar bears...


----------



## Doris (22 November 2008)

mayk said:


> So, I suppose you are a Vegetarian? If no, then getting the chicken /turkey from the coles will not make it humane or terrorless. What was she supposed to do run around crying for help?




One major point is:
Why would Palin do this interview with this in the background?  
... To show how emotionally (devoid) tough she is?

The other major point is:
Look how long that bird struggled before dying!  Surely a quick chop would be better!  
It seemed as though an artery was severed and blood vacuumed out of its body... some blood spilt.
Torture is not necessary!


----------



## mayk (22 November 2008)

Doris said:


> The other major point is:
> Look how long that bird struggled before dying!  Surely a quick chop would be better!
> It seemed as though an artery was severed and blood vacuumed out of its body... some blood spilt.
> Torture is not necessary!




Have you ever been to a slaughter house? It is normal, even if you remove the neck of a bird it still moves for a while.


----------



## Doris (22 November 2008)

*Turkeygate*:

Some blogs about the Palin interview with the turkey slaughter after she pardoned one turkey:

 Q. What's the difference between Sarah Palin and a turkey?
 A. The G.O.P. doesn't have to pay $150,000 to dress a turkey.

*  It is always the president who pardons turkeys, and Palin is a president-wannabe. 
She's practicing in case she ever gets to be president.

*  Anyone wonder what they did with the turkey blood? I hope you have eaten. 
I suspect it goes into sausages and soup and things like that. Yuk. 

*  There are TWO turkeys in this picture ...

*  This woman loves to be pictured with dying animals for some reason.
 Maybe she should now be known as Mrs."PAIN"lin. Definitely ODD!

*  Palin puts the "laughter" in slaughter!

*  Well, being indifferent to slaughter is what it takes to be a VP during war times.

*  The birds are put into that thing live, head-first, struggling? Thanks for telling us that - seriously. I just became a vegetarian this minute and will remain so until I can be sure that an animal I eat was killed humanely - i.e. without distress and suffering. It does happen sometimes in the industry - obviously not at this particular place. 

*  SO, did she spare a turkey to take it home and kill it herself. That would fit, right?

*  Palin will get her turkey cooked by the animal rights activists on this one. 

*  Some nice parallels here: Imagine the saved turkey as a CEO and the slaughtered gobblers as the American worker, soldier, pensioner. And then there's the notion of getting stuffed. And of course the bird brain comparison.

*  She did that "turkey kill" shot on purpose - a reminder to anyone thinking of crossing her ---

*  It isn't the turkey that bothers me so much, it is the gobbeling of the governor. What, in heaven's name did she say? She speaks in broken cliches, two words forward and one back.

*  Pathetic...This woman did this interview with that backdrop, which is barabaric and disturbing, because she knew all the cable news channels etc would take notice and she's get more airtime. Except she has NOTHING valid to say.

*  Difference between a hockey mom and a turkey? 7 million dollar book deal.

*  Actually Obama did do a similar interview, except in his, Republicans were being slaughtered in the background.


----------



## Prospector (22 November 2008)

Doris said:


> It seemed as though an artery was severed and blood vacuumed out of its body... some blood spilt.
> Torture is not necessary!




I am with you, it seemed very barbaric based on the bird's struggles.  Not sure what her point was in doing this interview either.


----------



## Nyden (22 November 2008)

Prospector said:


> I am with you, it seemed very barbaric based on the bird's struggles.  Not sure what her point was in doing this interview either.




Was the bird struggling, or was it just dead and its animations were just reflexes?

Seeing any animal die is unpleasant though, despite the circumstances ... at least, in my opinion. So, quite odd indeed.


----------



## 2020hindsight (22 November 2008)

Doris said:


> *Turkeygate*:
> 
> Q. What's the difference between Sarah Palin and a turkey?
> A. The G.O.P. doesn't have to pay $150,000 to dress a turkey.
> ...




Turkeygate , lol



> * The birds are put into that thing live, head-first, struggling? Thanks for telling us that - seriously. I just became a vegetarian this minute ...   [lol] .




kids, kids - before we eat Thanksgiving Dinner - come have a look at how they kill those turkeys!

ohh godfathers - she's a laugh a minute isn't she.   lol


----------



## Doris (22 November 2008)

Prospector said:


> I am with you, it seemed very barbaric based on the bird's struggles.  Not sure what her point was in doing this interview either.




Too true.  
There was a transition pause - from frantic to weak struggling, when it had died and the nerve twitching began. Awful.

_The Australian_ report on this says Palin was not aware of what was happening in the background as she spoke.
Their video clip is from KTUU-TV in which the journo says Palin didn't know.

In fact, before the taping, Palin was asked about the scenario and she said: 
"No worries.  I'm fine with that."

Did you note the drums under the guillotine that collected the blood?
I just think they should knock them out before they suck the blood out of them.
Hopefully it will be a wake-up call for all abattoirs - all over the world.  Be humane!

Maybe Palin's media addiction ploy for attention will have some value besides self-interest.


----------



## 2020hindsight (22 November 2008)

Doris said:


> *  Palin puts the "laughter" in slaughter!




:topic - a poem by Gordon - a hypothetical where, in the interests a fairness, a man should take on a fair adversary under fair conditions - take a rifle with one bullet (deerhunter style) and wait outside a grizzly's lair .. 

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=87800



> LEX TALIONIS
> Adam Lindsay Gordon.
> 
> To beasts of the field, and fowls of the air, and fish of the sea alike,
> ...


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (22 November 2008)

Doris said:


> Too true.
> There was a transition pause - from frantic to weak struggling, when it had died and the nerve twitching began. Awful.
> 
> _The Australian_ report on this says Palin was not aware of what was happening in the background as she spoke.
> ...




Although I have not seen the video of Palin and the turkeys, from accounts I would reckon she spent at most 2-3 minutes at the scene.

You jokers have masticated over this for over 24 hours.

Who is worse?

Voyeuristic commentators who eat meat and have never seen a turkey killed, living in clingwrapped fetid cities or a good ole country girl doing her duty as Governor of Alaska, and saving one at Thanksgiving.

gg


----------



## 2020hindsight (22 November 2008)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Who is worse?
> 
> Voyeuristic commentators who eat meat and have never seen a turkey killed, living in clingwrapped fetid cities or a good ole country girl doing her duty as Governor of Alaska, and saving one at Thanksgiving.




Hey gg - she can stay a good ole country girl till the end of time for all I care lol 

As long as she never sets foot inside the White House


----------



## Ageo (23 November 2008)

LOL obviously you people that are crying about it have never lived in a real world (but instead everything handed to you). 

Lets say she was shown hunting a turkey (of course thats cruel and inhumane blah blah).

If you dont eat meat then cry all you want (your entitled to your opinion) but if you eat meat and still criticize then you are the one who lives in lala land.

Im glad in a way that she is showing people that "this is what happens to a turkey before you buy it in a shop" of course people dont like graphic material but unfortunately some things in life arnt nice but need to be done.


----------



## ZzzzDad (23 November 2008)

Sarah Palin lives in the real world.  Many of the Palin haters on this thread live in a make believe fantasy land where meat comes from sources other than actual animals.  Get out of the city and see where all the food comes from.  Some of it is not pretty, but it is neccessary for our survival.

Incredible.

And for one of the above uninformed posters, Governors do in fact have the power to pardon in their individual states.   Each state has its own laws on the extent of this pardon power.  The Governor of Illinois a few years ago pardoned dozens of death row inmates, giving them life inprisonment instead.


----------



## Glen48 (23 November 2008)

Palin eating  Turkey a new way for looking at cannibalism


----------



## Prospector (23 November 2008)

ZzzzDad said:


> Sarah Palin lives in the real world.




She lives in a world, not the 'real world'.  I dont have rifles in my home ready for me to go and shoot the wildlife.


----------



## 2020hindsight (23 November 2008)

Well I'm predicting Sarah Palin is thrown out of office as State Governor at the next opportunity.  Watch this youtube if you haven't already. 

Gotta feeling she's "a bit round the bend" even for Alaskans.  ...  

Certainly her pastor is! - Pastor Muthree - he who chased down a witch responsible for car accidents in a town in Kenya? 

Alaskan Reporter (Shannyn Moore)  :- "We're into hunting, but not necessarily witch-hunting    I think we Alaskans have learnt a lot about Sarah Palin since she was nominated by John McCain."  

"Her church is into speaking in tongues ... Alaska is going to be the last days' refuge ?? "   ("last days refuse" more likely - if she gets her way) 

"This pastor, Muthree, who ran on the fact that he ran a witch out of town in Kenya - this spiritual warfare, something they talk a lot about at this church, etc "  

"She has a real fuzzy line between the separation of Church and State when it comes to her policies here.  Palin gives this pastor and the laying on of hands etc a lot of the credit for getting her into the Governor position.  ... It's even weird for Alaskans I assure you." 

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=JsDfkAnCvKY&NR=1
embedded:-
  Palin's Witch Hunting Pastor



Glen48 said:


> Palin eating Turkey a new way for looking at cannibalism



lol - good one.


----------



## Ageo (25 November 2008)

Prospector said:


> She lives in a world, not the 'real world'.  I dont have rifles in my home ready for me to go and shoot the wildlife.




Define "real world"???


----------



## Boggo (28 November 2008)

And she obviously has her precious little offspring in training to give the give the turkey.... errr the bird at every opportunity.

Birds seem to be a feature in her public outings.


----------



## ZzzzDad (30 November 2008)

They grow 'em tough in Alaska.  Don't mess with Piper - that includes Chuck Norris too!!


----------



## 2020hindsight (30 November 2008)

sorry zz, gg etc  - but you gotta smile at this talent lol
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=vYyt4nyaq64
embedded:-
 "Sarah Pale In Comparison"


----------



## Doris (4 July 2009)

Incredible news today!  Incredible.
Palin is stepping down as governor because she won't be contesting a second term next year.

According to her, this decision makes her a lame duck and all lame ducks spend millions on interstate and overseas trips milking the system, squandering $millions.  She will not be this stereotype, thus will do more for her state and her country by working 'outside politics'.  Huh?

Take a stand and effect positive change outside government? 

http://video.nytimes.com/video/2009/07/03/multimedia/1194841338826/palin-announces-resignation.html

Is she really serious about being capable of taking Obama's job in 2012?


----------



## mayk (4 July 2009)

.....


----------



## Ato (4 July 2009)

Think about this for a scary scenario:

Palin + HJ Resolution 5: Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to repeal the twenty-second article of amendment, thereby removing the limitation on the number of terms an individual may serve as President.

Google that resolution as I cant add links yet.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (4 July 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Palin sounds like a real threat to you guys.
> 
> She's lost an election, been humiliated and castigated by a left wing media.
> 
> ...




Lets hope she runs for President and gets rid of that silly man who sneaks out to smoke cigarettes down on Lexington when he should be running the country

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25731334-401,00.html

Goodonya Sarah.

gg


----------



## Julia (4 July 2009)

I can't believe even the Republicans would be so foolish as to have Ms Palin run again in any capacity.


----------



## trainspotter (4 July 2009)

I know this is going against the grain but here goes.

Does Costello assume a similar fate? Afterall they have similar traits. Repugnant to the media, out of step with the general populace. Admittedly Palin's IQ has not matched her shoe size. Costello in the upper echelons of intelligentsia. Not much comparison really.

Palin is as popular to the Yanks as Pauline Hanson was to the bleeders living in Banana Republic Land. Gun toting lunatics living in the hills would vote. Taken seriously by the mainstream. Unlikely. They are all still in awe of Obama Camel Smoker killing a fly with his bare hands. My contacts advise me he was thinking of Osama Bin Hiding somewhere.


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## Garpal Gumnut (4 July 2009)

trainspotter said:


> I know this is going against the grain but here goes.
> 
> Does Costello assume a similar fate? Afterall they have similar traits. Repugnant to the media, out of step with the general populace. Admittedly Palin's IQ has not matched her shoe size. Costello in the upper echelons of intelligentsia. Not much comparison really.
> 
> Palin is as popular to the Yanks as Pauline Hanson was to the bleeders living in Banana Republic Land. Gun toting lunatics living in the hills would vote. Taken seriously by the mainstream. Unlikely. They are all still in awe of Obama Camel Smoker killing a fly with his bare hands. My contacts advise me he was thinking of Osama Bin Hiding somewhere.




The common peoples love affair with anaemic pissants like Obama is quite new. In the long history of our civilisaton these pissants will appear as an abberation.

Boadacia.
Atilla
Ghengis
Washington
Thatcher

gg


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## trainspotter (4 July 2009)

What you talking about Willis?

Boadecia is a great song by Enya.

Atilla the Hun died of internal bleeding from heavy drinking or a condition called esophageal varices. LEGEND.

Hope you are referring to Denzel Washington and not George baby?

Genghis Khan an "anemic pissant" is a bit left of centre? Remember he subdued China. The largest contiguous empire in ALL history !!

I will give you Thatcher. She was Labor wasn't she? Anemic pissant is appropriate for this one.


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## Garpal Gumnut (4 July 2009)

trainspotter said:


> What you talking about Willis?
> 
> Boadecia is a great song by Enya.
> 
> ...




I'm listening to Brawlers by the GOD Tom Waits and it makes your allovertheplace post more bearable.

Expand please.

gg


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## noirua (8 July 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Lets hope she runs for President and gets rid of that silly man who sneaks out to smoke cigarettes down on Lexington when he should be running the country
> 
> http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25731334-401,00.html
> 
> ...



YEP! Sarah is back, after she has made mincemeat of the legal trivialists - trivialist is only a word in the external dictionary list. :  http://news.aol.com/article/sarah-palin-fighter-quitter/558691


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## 2020hindsight (11 July 2009)

howdy doris
forgot my password for a while there - wait till you get to my age lol.








Doris said:


> Incredible news today!  Incredible.
> Palin is stepping down as governor because she won't be contesting a second term next year.
> 
> According to her, this decision , blah blah rhubarb, lipstick, pitbulls, bull without the pit,   etc etc




rats, I was wrong , she resigned  !  lol. 

Still, did she jump,  or was she laughed out of office?



			
				2020 said:
			
		

> Well I'm predicting Sarah Palin is thrown out of office as State Governor at the next opportunity. ..
> 
> Gotta feeling she's "a bit round the bend" even for Alaskans.  ...


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## Timmy (10 February 2010)

She doesn't seem too bright ... notes on her hand? 
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...d-draws-ridicule/story-e6frg6so-1225828342155



> Palin was shown to have the words "Energy,'' "Tax'' and "Lift American Spirits'' scrawled on her hand during the question-and-answer session of a speech late Saturday to the conservative Tea Party movement.
> 
> Her palm also appeared to have the words "Budget cuts'' scribbled across it, with the "Budget'' crossed out.




&
http://www.theage.com.au/technology...itter-backlash-20100210-nr4n.html?autostart=1

I had higher hopes for her.






Still, suppose writing notes on your hand is cleaner than what Barnaby Joyce seems to do with his  (picture unsuitable for family website).


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## bellenuit (10 February 2010)

John Stewart video on Palin's hand gaffe

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/09/stewart-takes-on-palins-h_n_454824.html


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## nomore4s (10 February 2010)

bellenuit said:


> John Stewart video on Palin's hand gaffe
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/09/stewart-takes-on-palins-h_n_454824.html




hahaha, that is funny.


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## Garpal Gumnut (10 February 2010)

Sarah is a smart girl to have prompts on her hands.

Obama uses a teleprompter. 

Hands don't break down and make you look like a goose, as happened to Obama.

gg


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## Timmy (11 February 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Hands don't break down and make you look like a goose, as happened to Obama.




He doesn't need the assistance of a broken teleprompter to look like a goose... just needs to keep doing nothing.


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## Garpal Gumnut (2 April 2010)

My contacts in Alaska tell me that Sarah Palin will announce her candidature as Republican nominee for the next US Presidential Election.

As yet, I am unable to give a date, but will keep ASF updated on developments.

At last some hope of an end to this ridiculous profligate presidency and a return to good governance and a sane foreign policy.

gg


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## GumbyLearner (21 July 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> My contacts in Alaska tell me that Sarah Palin will announce her candidature as Republican nominee for the next US Presidential Election.
> 
> As yet, I am unable to give a date, but will keep ASF updated on developments.
> 
> ...




HAHAHAHAHAHA 

*New Study Shows that Americans Lose Fractional IQ Points Each Time Sarah Palin Tweets
*
A new study published this week in the Journal of American Health and Wellness (JAHM) finds that Americans’ average IQ is adversely affected by each Sarah Palin tweet.  While this is the first study to test the relationship between Sarah Palin tweets and IQ, its findings support the anecdotal evidence of a declining national IQ since Ms. Palin was thrust onto the national stage in August 2008.

According to Dr. Joseph Farney, the author of the peer-reviewed article Palin Tweets Manifest in Brain Scarring, “The use of Twitter, both for ‘tweeting’ and reading, has been assumed to be an intellectually inert exercise with a statistically insignificant IQ impact, not dissimilar to the myriad of monotonous daily activities like mowing the lawn or cleaning the house.  However, we wanted to test that popularly held belief by exploring the Twitter phenomena from a strictly scientific perspective to determine whether even short-term exposure to any Twitter stimuli, not just Ms. Palin’s tweets, could have an impact on IQ.

“We know that not every activity is IQ neutral.  It has been widely documented that reading classical literature, for example, has a positive impact on brain activity and, when read frequently and in high quantities, will measurably increase IQ.  This is most true on the younger brains ”” whereas activities in adulthood that impact IQ are much more rare.

“We went into this study with the hypothesis that a subject’s interaction with Twitter will have no effect on IQ .  Said another way, at the beginning of the study, it was our belief that only the three well-documented and universally accepted non-genetic or temporal IQ-retarding activities were (1) brain injury generally resulting from trauma; (2) the abuse of certain categories of drugs and (3) watching or listening to Glenn Beck.”

The Daily Goat met Dr. Farney at his testing facility, located at a Yale extension campus just outside New Haven, Connecticut, where he demonstrated the test protocol.

http://www.dailygoat.com/2010/07/ne...-lose-iq-points-each-time-sarah-palin-tweets/


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## Garpal Gumnut (19 August 2010)

Sarah Palin certainly leaves nobody in any doubt as to the lack of wisdom expressed by Obama in allowing a mosque to be built less than 400m. from the site of 9/11 in New York.

She makes a lot of sense and may be preparing for a tilt at the White House again.

http://online.wsj.com/video/sarah-palin-on-new-york-mosque/A2F65FD8-D7E8-411D-BC69-4ECB506434FB.html

gg


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## GumbyLearner (25 November 2010)

Moron or Couldn't care less?  

You decide. 

*Sarah Palin says US should stand by 'North Korean allies' *

http://www.news.com.au/world/sarah-...th-korean-allies/story-e6frfkyi-1225961065827

SARAH Palin has told radio listeners in the US that Americans should stand by their "North Korean allies".

The former Alaska governor and potential presidential candidate was asked about the conflict between North and South Korea.

"Obviously, we've got to stand with our North Korean allies," she said.


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## Garpal Gumnut (25 November 2010)

GumbyLearner said:


> Moron or Couldn't care less?
> 
> You decide.
> 
> ...




A slip of the tongue.

When ole Hillary Clinton does it , its a "misspeak" and the left media covers it up.

You need to understand that everyone ain't as word perfect as the lefties are.

gg 

gg


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## GumbyLearner (25 November 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> A slip of the tongue.
> 
> When ole Hillary Clinton does it , its a "misspeak" and the left media covers it up.
> 
> ...




You could be right Garp. 

It would be ridiculous to doubt the intellect of the great one!
Maybe she's dyslexic like Tom Cruise and needs to be cut some slack. 

http://www.readingkey.com/demo/Files/realaudio/tests/index-rm.htm

This is funny. "You know Hilary and I don't agree on anything."


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## GumbyLearner (25 November 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> A slip of the tongue.
> 
> When ole Hillary Clinton does it , its a "misspeak" and the left media covers it up.
> 
> ...




I prefer the old sayings myself. 

Like, "If you don't know what's going on, don't say anything." 

Otherwise, you'll look like a fool. 
Simple hey.  

By the way, when did you last fly into Pyongyang to play golf with Kim Jong-Il Garp? What was the lay-out of the course like, did it suit lefties????


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## Garpal Gumnut (25 November 2010)

GumbyLearner said:


> I prefer the old sayings myself.
> 
> Like, "If you don't know what's going on, don't say anything."
> 
> ...




A very misunderstood heap of colonic irrigation is our ole Kim, Jong that is not the Ambassador.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh_9QhRzJEs

gg


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## GumbyLearner (25 November 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> A very misunderstood heap of colonic irrigation is our ole Kim, Jong that is not the Ambassador.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh_9QhRzJEs
> 
> gg




LOL Yes I agree. But I doubt Sarah Palin would provide any foreign relations solution to the current issue. Maybe her puppet masters could help her to not sound like such a muppet.


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## GumbyLearner (11 January 2011)

GumbyLearner said:


> Moron or Couldn't care less?
> 
> You decide.




After the latest event, it is still so hard to choose. 

Here's something to consider from her website.

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/images/palin-crosshairs.jpg


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## orr (11 January 2011)

She was smart enough to take down the target reference map from the web site pretty quickly, so she seems to care about something.
And on the old adage above, I adhere to the more crass version ' nobody knows how stupid you are until you tell them"
And from First Dog @ Crikey.
(If only Satire was a virus)


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## RandR (15 May 2011)




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## Gringotts Bank (15 May 2011)

If you lined up Palin against Obama and asked them to each run a business, Palin would succeed with little help, while Obama would be intellectualizing about how to destroy the competition, while he slowly ran out of money.  Palin has a nice smile and a pleasant down-to-earth manner about her.  Obama is just a head-swell.  Never seen anyone so pleased with himself.  I guess if he was successful, he's at least have a reason for that enormous head, but he's not been.


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## Gringotts Bank (15 May 2011)

Not saying I'd vote for her, but she seems ok to me.  Probably an intellectual equivalent of GWBush.


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## Knobby22 (15 May 2011)

Gringotts Bank said:


> If you lined up Palin against Obama and asked them to each run a business, Palin would succeed with little help, while Obama would be intellectualizing about how to destroy the competition, while he slowly ran out of money.  Palin has a nice smile and a pleasant down-to-earth manner about her.  Obama is just a head-swell.  Never seen anyone so pleased with himself.  I guess if he was successful, he's at least have a reason for that enormous head, but he's not been.




(Cough) - read her history about how she ran her state. Not good stuff.
Obama came from nothing - she has always been linked to "sponsers" to use an euphanism and will do whatever they tell her to do. She would be a disaster for the USA and they are starting to see this.

Obama prove himself the hard way, I am sure he could run a business better than that sycophant.. If he wasn't given a hospital handpass by Bush he may have greatly improved the country.  The USA has been going backward for years especially if you are middle class.


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