# Trading Strategy/System for Beginner



## Paul36 (27 July 2009)

Hi Everyone.

This is I think my first post and it is gonna be a bit long but I thought it important to give enough information so that others can give advice. Sorry about that in advance. 

Basically I need some advice on where to go from here with my trading strategy.

A bit of history…
I started what I thought was investing (but now realize was gambling) in stocks in about 2006 with a first trade of about $2000. As I gained more confidence and a fair bit of success, I increased my activity. I had no such thing as stop losses in place, I didn’t even know what they were. I had no strategy. I had disproportionate amounts of funds invested in certain stocks. Because I was making money, it was all too easy so I just kept buying things I thought sounded good. I had 95% of all my funds in mining stocks on the ASX. No money management rules in place. I just pumped money into the market as I got paid each month. No charting, or real technical analysis. I would just read or hear about a stock and then look at the chart. If it looked like price had retreated then I would buy on the hope that it was a short term dip. I bought penny stocks and didn’t even really care/understand about the importance of volume. Writing this now makes me cringe, but at the same time it is a learning experience.

Well the funny thing is I made quite a bit of money from 2006 until mid 2008, and I had at least doubled if not tripled my money. So a bull market and blind luck probably did their best to confirm all the bad habits I had. I remember getting a scare in August 2007 when my stocks dropped a fair bit, but then they shot straight back up in a matter of a couple of weeks, so on with the show I thought.

Well things of course turned to the schidt in September/ October 2008. At the time I was on holiday in the US and was getting internet connection every 3-4 days as I was travelling around a lot. I remember logging on and realising my portfolio value was down $50k. Holy F$%# I thought, then “Oh well, it’ll come back”….another 3 or 4 days later I log on and it’s down $100k. At that point I thought that I was down so much already I may as well just hold and wait… So I managed to turn abount $400k into I think $85k at the low point…nice work, I’m sure you’ll agree.

Well since then, I have done a fair bit of reading on all my bad habits, working out where I went wrong and how things could have been different. I drew a line in the sand and have basically started afresh. But really that has only meant a few (but significant) changes:

1.	I have stop losses now on any new trades and on existing positions 
2.	I have sold out of stocks I was too heavy in and tried to diversify into different sectors.
3.	I changed brokerage firms to IB so I can do automatic stop losses. I am now also trading US stocks.
4.	I have half my portfolio in cash right now.

My stocks have come back a bit and I have had some more success to the point that I am now down about 50% from my portfolio all time high, and I am down 35% on the total money I have invested.

So my problem is where do I go from here???

I have been trawling the internet looking for information on how to trade, but any newcomer will understand how mind boggling all this information is. There are so many punters out there who are willing to take my money and offer all these great systems etc, that it is too hard to sort out the BS from anything that may be of value. 

So I end up just thinking everyone is full of BS. It’s like watching the financial channels and the so called economic experts. One minute the market is falling and all the economists are going on about how we will be in for new lows. The next minute the markets are moving on up, and now they are telling us we are in a bull market again..blah blah blah. If those guys who are so called experts have such differing opinions, then how the hell is an ignoramus like me meant to make any sense of it?

I see a few posts on forums and the like about how all the subscription services are a waste of time and that you can get all the information for free. Well that may be true, but the problem for a novice like me is that just as with the paid services, all the free information is so varied. There are so many different ideas around that it’s hard to make sense of it.

I ended up subscribing to a particular newsletter for stock market tips and I have had very good success. But while I am making money out of their tips, I don’t like the fact that I am reliant on someone else to tell me what/how to trade. 

So reading through more forum posts etc, a lot of people say you need to know what type of investor you are and what timeframe you are trading etc. 

What I DO know is this:

•	I want to trade for 1 reason only – to accumulate wealth. I am not trading for income, just capital growth.
•	I don’t pay CGT as I am not a tax resident of Australia.
•	I am not interested in looking at a computer screen all day and being a day trader. Far too much stress and work, plus I have a day job.
•	I do have a pretty high tolerance of risk (as I’m sure you will get from my previous experience).
•	I am interested in some type of momentum or trend trading methodology, going with the flow and with stop losses always in place.
•	I want to be able to make money in down markets as well (eg shorting stocks), but I have never done this before.
•	I don’t really want to trade on margin, but if I could have a sound trading system in place and I understood the mechanics of it better, I would consider it
•	I want consistent achievable returns. What do I consider achievable? Is 20 – 30% per year realistic? I think so.
•	I am interested in trading forex, but again know nothing about it. I am getting the feeling that it is all very complicated and too hard, but another part of me thinks it is really just like a stock, with support and resistance levels etc, so is it really THAT complicated? 
•	Every person you speak to or read about has such differing opinions about what matters and how to time markets (eg what indicators to use), that it just gets totally confusing.

  What I DON’T know:

•	How to do any technical analysis other than very rudimentary stuff.
•	What software should I be using for scanning stocks, what indicators to assist in identifying trends, and what rules to use for entry/exit

Is there a one stop shop so to speak where I can get all this information and try and design a trading strategy that suits my needs? What would others recommend? 

While I hate the idea of being ripped off by some internet company that teaches you how to do this or that and then delivering nothing, the one appeal that such companies do have is that they are one source of information for a newbie, so it takes a lot of the problems of conflicting/alternative advice away. As well as saving time by trying to work out what information to read etc. The problem is there are so many charlatans around that how do you choose? 

I have even flirted with the idea of paying someone for stock mentoring advice, but again how do you find someone reputable? Someone who is actually making money and not just regurgitating theoretical BS?

I understand that there are many ways to skin a cat and that there are different strategies that suit different people, different markets etc. But all I want to know is ONE way of skinning the cat!!! A reliable, consistent way…. I’m not looking for a magic box system that tells me what to do as I don’t believe they exist, but to try and understand how I can get the returns I am after by using some sort of rules based trading strategy.

Some posts suggest that to get a good understanding takes years and years or research and practice. Is that really true, or is it only true for people who want to day trade? Remember I am not after unrealistic returns or being a day trader. 

So how much time would it take to put me in a position where I could independently search for opportunities and place trades and have an expectancy of making the 20 – 30% returns I am after? Weeks, months or years? I know it depends on everyone’s intelligent levels and the effort you put in, so let’s assume I am of average intelligence (although my trading history would suggest otherwise ha ha), and am prepared to put in 10 – 15 hours per week in research/study.  

So to recap, what I would really like advice on is:

1. How to go about finding a trading system to achieve my targeted returns (20-30%). Either a fee paying or free service that will educate me and give me the understanding to design and trade a system with positive expectancy of making profits. A system with defined entry and exit rules that is simple and works. Does such a thing exist? Preferably one source of information rather than someone just telling me "search the internet, it's all there". That advice is not exactly helpful

2. Expected time frame to learn and implemet #1 

And before anyone gets too critical, please remember we all have to start somewhere. I tried to find similar posts like this on this forum but didn't really see anything, so apologies if all my queries have been answered elsewhere (and if they have, can you please show me where the answers are?).

Anyway, sorry for the length of the post, just thought I would try and provide as much information as possible. Thanks a lot for reading.

I would really appreciate constructive advice/suggestions as to where I should go from here….


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## Trembling Hand (27 July 2009)

You are about to get a heap of replies but as you now know they will just be variations on the same old trading/investing cliches.

Do yourself a favour and go here,

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6588

And here,

http://www.thechartist.com.au/

Ignore all other "advice".

:


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## Paul36 (27 July 2009)

Thanks for your reply, TH

Re your second link, that looks of interest to me. I can't find any details of his historical performance though. Do you know offhand? Better results on the US or ASX markets? 

Re the first link - all I can say is that it must be good, because everyone is congratulating him on his efforts. But in all honesty, it seems a bit above my level. He mentions something about a book - has that guy written a book and if so, would a novice get much out of it or is it designed for more advanced traders?


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## Trembling Hand (27 July 2009)

Paul36 said:


> Thanks for your reply, TH
> 
> Re your second link, that looks of interest to me. I can't find any details of his historical performance though. Do you know offhand? Better results on the US or ASX markets?
> 
> Re the first link - all I can say is that it must be good, because everyone is congratulating him on his efforts. But in all honesty, it seems a bit above my level. He mentions something about a book - has that guy written a book and if so, would a novice get much out of it or is it designed for more advanced traders?




Paul drop Nick an email and ask the above questions directly. You will get a quick reply.

As for Franks work the reason I recommend that is although at first it looks complicated it is actually the only "system" that I have seen that teaches understanding of price action in a simple and repeatable process.


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## Paul36 (27 July 2009)

Copy that. Thanks TH


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## macca (28 July 2009)

Hi Paul,

I support what TH said


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## Frank D (28 July 2009)

TH,

Thanks for the support. 

After 525 posts you would begin to see the merits in using a multi-timeframe model that helps define trends, support, and resistance.

Peter,

It seems complicated but it makes logical sense. 

As a trader  you simply trade the timeframe that suits you, or 
diversify your trading in within the same multi-timeframe model via 
day-trading derivatives,  swing-trading Stocks  and/or using Thrust patterns,
 and lastly investing & accumulation for wealth creation, which are 
all covered.


However, as an author I might over complicate the methodology, and
 my latest book might be slightly advance for some especially if just 
starting out or don’t have the same tools.


 I’ve gone back and started rewriting my first book once again, and it 
could take another 6 months before I’m finished.

There is a lot of information from my first book that’s not covered in
 the latest book, but the first book could have been written far better.

People don’t really want to know about standard deviation techniques or can’t
 use spiral point trading because they don’t have the tools.

The first book might suit you, as I’m going to focus on high 
probability patterns, swing trading, and momentum ‘Thrust’ trading in 
higher timeframes, and use the 5-day patterns to find high probability 
set-ups.

But that's 6 months away.

 cheers
Frank


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## nomore4s (28 July 2009)

Paul36 said:


> Thanks for your reply, TH
> 
> Re your second link, that looks of interest to me. I can't find any details of his historical performance though. Do you know offhand? Better results on the US or ASX markets?
> 
> Re the first link - all I can say is that it must be good, because everyone is congratulating him on his efforts. But in all honesty, it seems a bit above my level. He mentions something about a book - has that guy written a book and if so, would a novice get much out of it or is it designed for more advanced traders?




Paul,

I can highly recommend the chartist in regards to seeing how a very good trader goes about trading in a consistant manner and both Nick & Trish will answer any questions and they provide a very good service.

I also recommend buying Franks book. Franks system isn't anywhere near as complicated as it first appears once you understand the basic principles.

Frank I look forward to the rewritten version of the first book.


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## Trembling Hand (28 July 2009)

Frank it use to surprise me that more don't jump on your wagon but I've come to accept that. People just want to know enough so they can fool themselves into justifying their bets. They don't want to actually know the probabilities of the patterns they are trading or develop an understanding of price movements. Just know that other fools have used the approach before. (whats that about doing the same and expecting a different approach?? )

Have a look at the Head & Shoulder patterns thread - Its running at 80% FALURE rate on the calls!!!!.

For F sake


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## nomore4s (28 July 2009)

Trembling Hand said:


> Frank it use to surprise me that more don't jump on your wagon but I've come to accept that. People just want to know enough so they can fool themselves into justifying their bets. They don't want to actually know the probabilities of the patterns they are trading or develop an understanding of price movements. Just know that other fools have used the approach before. (whats that about doing the same and expecting a different approach?? )
> 
> Have a look at the Head & Shoulder patterns thread - Its running at 80% FALURE rate on the calls!!!!.
> 
> For F sake




lol, I agree. The more research I do with Franks system the more I'm understanding just how good it is.

I've also found it is a very powerful tool for defining trends especially the strength of a trend, just got to work on applying it and capturing more of these trends now , lol.


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## Frank D (28 July 2009)

Trembling Hand said:


> Frank it use to surprise me that more don't jump on your wagon but I've come to accept that. They don't want to actually know the probabilities of the patterns they are trading or develop an understanding of price movements.




TH,

It’s probably because my methodology is still a 
discretionary model/methodology and that traders have to think 
for themselves.

Most traders that don’t want to think for themselves develop 
hardcoded systems with positive expectancy, which is a correct thing to 
do. The system then has an edge, defines Risk/Reward based on 
historical evidence, and hopefully makes the trader money and not
 lose money.

However, hardcoded systems often fail and move into draw-downs 
periods. Most hardcoded systems don’t know when those draw-down 
periods will occur or how long they will last for.


 Using my model can often help traders who use hardcoded 
 systems, because it helps optimize the systems as it clearly 
establishes trends, the  direction of trends,  and likely areas of reversal 
of trends within multi-timeframes.

*My model doesn't use ‘hardcode expectancy’ , but employs statistical expectancy using hardcoded levels with a random outcome.*

We have just seen the previous 3 months have precise tops in the 
market, from a precise low in March.

*For example*:-  having an expectancy that around the March lows and 
‘support’ might provide a potential 30% UP swing in the 2nd Quarter: - random outcome until complete.

 Or a *3rd Quarter Thrust pattern* once lesser timeframes confirmed the 
UP move.

*Example*:- why short a rising stock in Australia if the S&P has closed 
above the 5-day highs. There is a high probability pattern that the next 
day will gap up. 

Not every trade will be a winner, and not every higher timeframe support 
or resistance will hold, they often break, but it’s the filtering of those 
higher timeframes using lesser timeframes that the trader uses:-
 5-day patterns  or Weekly ‘open’ patterns:- support/resistance

I’m not the one who coined the term the ‘*adaptive trader’, *but that’s 
what the trader has to be, ‘adaptive’ and be aware on what’s going on in 
the higher timeframes.

I’m completely bias, but that’s what my model and 
methodology provides.*What makes a good methodology is one that gives
 an individual trader a good grasp and understanding of what the risk
 and rewards are along with providing high probability set-ups with 
the lowest ‘risk’. Another trader looking at the same model and 
methodology should have the exact same understanding*. 

It’s there for all to see. It’s objective. There are rules and principles 
to formulate your own trading strategy based on your own limitations or 
the timeframe you choose to trade.

It doesn’t mean all traders will end up with the same results, because it 
is still a discretionary ‘method’. 

*SPI Weekly and 5-day pattern* (chart Below)

I pointed out the July highs, and if anyone who is shorting around these 
highs there are certain patterns to focus on….

Short resistance:- 5-day highs 4130 along with a higher Weekly open

The reversal pattern won’t be confirmed  until price is below the 5-day 
50% level.

A higher probability pattern would reverse down from these highs and 
gap lower below the 5-day 50% level and continue down. However 
Monday hit 4130 (sycom) but didn’t gap open below Tuesday’s 50% level.

 Tuesday’ hasn’t opened below the 5-day 50% level, but price
 is still coming down from the 5-day highs. Therefore the trader is still in 
a winning position but he or she needs to be adaptive, because 
July’s resistance levels won’t last long, and with a couple of days to go 
until July’s resistance level shift, short trading around 4130 in August ends 
up being higher risk than in July.

Even though *one trader* might still think the market is heading down into the weekly 50% level, that same person needs to optimize the market 
based on Market dynamics.

*Another trader* might want to trade shorts at 4130, but add more once below 5-day 50% level.

*Another trader* might short around 4130 but use a partial exit strategy 
21 points down from the high and focus on the R42-44 range and exit:- day trading

Both the *Day trader and Swing ‘short’ trader *are trading the same
 patterns, but managing the trade differently. That's what makes a good methodology, they understand the pattern and trade accordingly.

Short trading around 4130 was valid for Monday, but now there is a shift
 in market dynamics that could see the SPI move towards 4150 on Tuesday.

So why would the trader short on Tuesday then?

Because there is another high probability intra-day pattern:- spiral point and a 5-day filter that has a pattern of moving away 21-42 points.

Both traders trade accordingly.

Therefore *short trading 4130 *had more probability of reversing down on Monday than what Tuesday has, because of the change in market dynamics but doesn't mean traders can't short trade a spiral 'top' pattern.

A trader ‘*short’ trading *around these highs today understands that there is a larger Primary cycle that’s  trying to move towards 4400, 
therefore the best they can hope for is a move down into the Weekly 
50% level and then adapt to the price action around that level.

Exit and then re-enter using the 5-day patterns once again if the Weekly 
50% level holds or fails.

A *stock trader trading the 3rd Quarter 'Thrust' pattern *can sit back and ride a 2-month wave pattern upwards with a primary target of 4400, 
which may or may not get there:- random pattern.


*It’s all about support, resistance, trends using hardcoded or 
statistical expectancy and optimization based on market dynamics and
 price patterns*.


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## Paul36 (28 July 2009)

Well just to let you know I am a new subscriber to The Chartist.

And Frank, I would really like to understand your system so I guess I will just wait for the new book to come out.


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## beamstas (28 July 2009)

So much good info right here.
I'd reccomend radge's book, or even better, dvd. 

Brad


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## brianwh (26 August 2009)

Is there anyone out there operating a SMSF who uses the Chartist? I note that he advertises that as a specific part of his service but I'm wondering if people here have experience with this aspect.


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## tech/a (27 August 2009)

> My model doesn't use ‘hardcode expectancy’ , but employs statistical expectancy using hardcoded levels with a random outcome




Frank you continue to claim statistical expectancy yet when asked to supply this it just isn't available?
How can you claim this without any evidence?

Particularly when you use this in the same sentence?


> using hardcoded levels *with a random outcome*



I'm amused that you can claim a statistical expectancy from Random Outcomes.
From What I can gather this is a first in Statistics.


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## Frank D (27 August 2009)

tech/a said:


> Frank you continue to claim statistical expectancy yet when asked to supply this it just isn't available?
> How can you claim this without any evidence?
> 
> I'm amused that you can claim a statistical expectancy from Random Outcomes.




Not you again.

Go to the chapter titled 5-day pattern and standard deviation trading.

That’s all the statistical evidence I need.

And what ever you trade will always have a random outcome regardless
 on how much statistical evidence is available, whether it’s hardcoded or
 an 'observe phenomena' 

I’m amused that people take you seriously.


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## tech/a (27 August 2009)

Frank D said:


> Not you again.
> 
> Go to the chapter titled 5-day pattern and standard deviation trading.
> 
> That’s all the statistical evidence I need.




Maybe all YOU need but for anyone evaluating a method it has NO statistical significance.
method doesnt equal significance.



> And what ever you trade will always have a random outcome regardless
> on how much statistical evidence is available, whether it’s hardcoded or
> an 'observe phenomena'




Hmm you are arguing contary to your claims.



> I’m amused that people take you seriously.




Yes an error in judgement some have made.


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## Frank D (27 August 2009)

tech/a said:


> Maybe all YOU need but for anyone evaluating a method it has NO statistical significance.
> method doesnt equal significance.




So there is no statistical evidence that Index markets ‘invert’ 63-72% of 
the time?

So that there is no statistical or observed phenomena, that markets 
will invert from 5-day highs or 5-day lows?

I know one thing for sure.

There is ‘observed phenomena’  that you get up peoples noses more 
than anyone else in ASF.

Statistically, you are the most annoying person in this forum.

I won't even bother replying to your next comment


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## tech/a (27 August 2009)

Just point me/us to the study so I/we can evaluate the Statistical evidence.

What no study??

Oh and thanks for the compliment.
Unlike many I'm not in aw.



> I won't even bother replying to your next comment



Totally predictable response.

Thanks for your clarification once again.


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## nunthewiser (27 August 2009)

unreal


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## ThingyMajiggy (27 August 2009)

nunthewiser said:


> unreal




Whats unreal?


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## tech/a (27 August 2009)

Who's unreal?
Can only be---


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## trader62 (1 September 2009)

I’m a newbie, probably similar to Paul36 and I’m curious to know how many people actually trade using Frank D’s methodology and how many use the Chartist?
It don’t want to know specific numbers I want to hear from people who actual trade using these suggested methods. 

As with many of the methods mentioned in ASF how many are proven and actually used by real traders, not would be traders or simulated traders, but actual traders?

I note many positive comments and see how Frank D’s method can be used and I thank Frank D for his efforts and his thread, however apart from Frank D how many actually trade using the AMT model? 
How many actually trade using the Chartist?

When I say trade I mean trade and make a full time living from trading.
1. I’d be interested in hearing from those who do? 
2. I'd like to know how long it has taken you to master and understand the AMT methodology and likewise with the Chartist?
3. What other roads to success is suggested by those who actually trade full-time?

Without being offensive I also understand that full-time traders may or may not be spending time in these threads and forums hence the questions may not be appropriate to those who are reading this?

I'm curious.


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## Trembling Hand (1 September 2009)

trader62 the benefit of services like Franks and Nicks (the chartist) is not a cut and paste path to trading fulltime (ie riches) it is in understanding markets and proper trading method.


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## trader62 (1 September 2009)

TH, Thank you for your comments, 
I know the services mentioned are an educational tool at the same time I acknowledge that trading is not something that is learnt or mastered at a week-end seminar or even two? 
I know it takes lots of time, practice and more. Probably many years. Similar to any other occupation, I also acknowledge that it is not something that can be taught or learnt from a book. 

Hence the questions, I'm interested in hearing from people who have walked the walk.
How long it has taken them.
How long has it taken you, and what stage are you at? are you making a full-time primary income from trading?
Are you using the AMT model or the Chartist?
Is anyone out there making a full-time income from trading? 
If so are they using the above methodologies or something different? or maybe a combination of many?
I'm not looking for a quick way to riches (though it would be nice) as I understand that trading is hard work and that one must first learn to understand markets, what moves them and how the masses react to certain events. 
I'm curious to know how many are actually using these methods successfully.
I want to learn to read and trade the markets by someone who actually trades the markets full-time and not by someone who makes his/her money selling news letters, books, seminars, subscriptions etc.
I hope the real traders apart from Nick, Frank D and maybe yourself (TH) really step forward and answer my questions.


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## Trembling Hand (1 September 2009)

This is a big problem. Info from those that talk the talk but have never walked the walk.

The way to go about such things is simple in my mind.

Its not the info offered or what is available, it's the process. Your comment has hit the nail on the head,


> I know it takes lots of time, practice and more. Probably many years. Similar to any other occupation, I also acknowledge that it is not something that can be taught or learnt from a book




Don't go on a search for "the" info. Go on a search for "the" process. Just like any occupational education its long and vast. But the correct process for learning is well established. Have a look at this which perfectly sums up the process IMO,

http://traderfeed.blogspot.com/2008/02/from-trader-education-to-trader.html

Its all very hard to find the right info from the right people. You only have to look at the XAO thread today to get suspicious about forum guru's.


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## adt100 (1 September 2009)

Good input guys. TH I assume you rate Brett Steenbarger ? Off on hols in a few weeks. Might make a purchase of his latest book for light reading.

Tech and Frank enjoyed your 'conversation' shame it ended. I actually enjoy both your posts fairly often but today you brought a smile to my face and a tear to my eye.........................


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## Trembling Hand (1 September 2009)

adt100 said:


> Good input guys. TH I assume you rate Brett Steenbarger ? Off on hols in a few weeks. Might make a purchase of his latest book for light reading.




His latest book is very heavy going. Good but just too much to read straight through. Probably better to pick and choose chapters.

His second one is a ripper thou, Enhancing Trader Performance. http://www.moneybags.com.au/default.asp?d=0&t=1&id=5203&c=0&a=74


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## OzTrade (7 September 2009)

TH, Thanks, good article. 
Problem is as Steenbarger explains, no such place exits in the world of trading as it does in medicine? 
Well maybe it does but not for private traders, maybe the big banks, institutions and broker-houses know how it should be done, but they are not telling anyone.
Then again maybe they don't, maybe that explains why we had the recent financial crisis. Mmmmmmmmmmm  

Until then traders must keep learning the hard way, finding a successful private trader is next to impossible as trader62 mentions, do they really exit? are there any out there?
If they are, will the real traders please step forward! 
No guru's please, don't need to buy any more crappy books on indicators and chart patterns that don't work.


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## steve2222 (8 September 2009)

OZ Trade and Trader 62, have a look at this guy. (http://protradered.blogspot.com)

Sure he is USA based and trading mostly the ES (S&P), but does diversify occasionally into other instruments.

I have been following him for a year and his win/loss would be around 70 -75% with a r/r around 1.2. Have a good read of all his blogs.

From my observations of his blogs he is consistently successful. He used to be one of the moderators in a trading room that a lot of Aussies were on so I have observed him trade live so believe he is the real deal. To add to this he does not push any product or service, although he will do one on one training.

Anyway, just thought this might interest you to see someone who does trade full time. I too am at your level and had the same questions and hence ProTrader Ed did give me comfort it can be done - but not everyone will succed, most will fail.


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## OzTrade (8 September 2009)

Steve2222,
Thanks for the info, I'll have a look at it.
That's great, but I guess like trader62 I'm looking for the form or - how to, scenario. 
Do you use ProTrader Ed's material to make your trade decisions?
Do you trade full time?
How long has it taken you.... to get to where you are today as a trader?
I think I'll move to medicine, sounds a lot easier? 
Noooooooo.......... way and miss all the fun?


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## Trembling Hand (8 September 2009)

OzTrade said:


> Steve2222,
> Thanks for the info, I'll have a look at it.
> That's great, but I guess like trader62 I'm looking for the form or - how to, scenario.
> Do you use ProTrader Ed's material to make your trade decisions?
> ...




Steve, The process is well set out. In trading as well as other occupations. Get a thorough and broad knowledge of ALL markets, functions and participants. Then from that find something that looks interesting to you and become a specialised.

Takes lots of time. But like any occupation you can start off by being the annoying apprentice and asking lots of questions while being very observant.

Simple


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## tech/a (8 September 2009)

Trembling Hand said:


> Steve, The process is well set out. In trading as well as other occupations. Get a thorough and broad knowledge of ALL markets, functions and participants. Then from that find something that looks interesting to you and become a specialised.
> 
> Takes lots of time. But like any occupation you can start off by being the annoying apprentice and asking lots of questions while being very observant.
> 
> Simple




Further to T/H's musings.
Following anyone or any methodology is not going to help you understand how to trade profitably,unless how they do it is similar to mentoring,you can follow it ,disect it,question it.

"The Chartist" does this comprehensively.Nick runs up to 4 methods with very comprehensive explainations of all entries entries and trailing stops.His locked forum will give you direct access to discussion on methodology,from Nick and others like yourself who are learning how to trade and how to apply knowledge to profitable methodology.
You'll learn what to look for and how a pro goes about it.

The big draw is thet he is licienced and not a rented licience either its HIS.
Nick has very in expensive trial periods that you can investigate.
All methodologies are proven profitable with all being run live-- you get a daily email alert.

Enjoy the journey.


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## steve2222 (8 September 2009)

Hi OzTrade.

I support TH and Tech/a comments above.

I follow Pro Trader Ed's blog as it gives me the confirmation that trading full time can be achieved, but I have not followed Ed's method.

Couple of reasons for this:

1/ I have a fulltime high level corporate job and cannot trade the overnight market. But I have spent a year educating myself on trading incl paper trading (I was working in Australia for a while and had heaps of free time away from the family).

2/ Ed's methods are based on range charts (part of NT) but using proprietory indicators that he has purchased from another company called Blue Wave Trading. If you read all his blog you will see Ed spent years finding what worked best for him (reinforcing TH and Tech/a) and he swears by the BWT indicators. Ed says he spent US$50k on books, courses, indicators etc but has traded BWT indicators for 3 years now.

This is not to say I would NOT trade Ed's method, I actually like his style and conservatism, but the BWT indicators are very expensive (especially for us down here in the Southern Hem.)

Again to reinforce TH and Tech/a, Ed specifically discourgaes traders from shadow trading him (this is what some traders do in a moderated trading room where they just replicate what the moderator does without really learning or understanding why the trade was taken).

Somewhere on one of Ed's blogs he has a test called the Acid Test, which is what he encourages new traders to put themselves through to see if they are really ready to take the first live trade. Again Ed is doing this to ensure YOU have a method that works for you and you are comfortable with it.

I guess if I found myself with no corporate job and I was struggling to develop my own trading style, method and strategy; I would look for a mentor. In my case it could be Ed, for others it might be the Chartist or other suitable parties that YOU have got the confidence in.

This is a long journey (I know having spent a year educating myself) and, as others have said, like learning a new profession; but I am convinced for me that it is worth the sweat and tears.


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