# I'm back - where to get good data for DOM?



## RobinHood (29 April 2013)

I'm setting up Ninjatrader with Jigsaw DOM. Would like to play with SFE bond futures, Emini's, US treasuries, Eurex stuff like DAX and the bund/bobl/schatz, kospi and maybe energies. I plan on just staring at the DOM so I want to make sure I have good data. I can't afford TT.

I've looked and have basically found two options.

Kinetic data which is going to cost me quite alot
Deposit some dosh at IB and use their data

How good is the IB data for DOM watching? 
I remember staring at the HSI DOM a while back which was totally useless and I also remember huge discrepancies in T&S and DOM for a few other contracts (maybe it was the SPI).


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## waza1960 (29 April 2013)

Welcome Back!
  The best low cost option IMO is to open an AMP Futures account .Its  $400 to open a live account and it gives you free data including SFE with no exchange fees.It uses CQG data as well which is top notch.


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## Trembling Hand (29 April 2013)

RobinHood said:


> I plan on just staring at the DOM




Why


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## CanOz (29 April 2013)

waza1960 said:


> Welcome Back!
> The best low cost option IMO is to open an AMP Futures account .Its  $400 to open a live account and it gives you free data including SFE with no exchange fees.It uses CQG data as well which is top notch.




No Kospi with AMP Waza...


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## RADO (29 April 2013)

RobinHood said:


> I'm setting up Ninjatrader with Jigsaw DOM. Would like to play with SFE bond futures, Emini's, US treasuries, Eurex stuff like DAX and the bund/bobl/schatz, kospi and maybe energies. I plan on just staring at the DOM so I want to make sure I have good data. I can't afford TT.
> 
> I've looked and have basically found two options.
> 
> ...




IB filters their data, it's called snapshot data, it means they are only sending some of the information. If you are going to trade based on DOM you need real tick data, and Kinetick is an excellent source of tick data.


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## RobinHood (30 April 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> Why




Because I've been following nobsdaytrading course advice and it advised to work with/master DOM first before moving onto other skills. I don't know anything else (apart from T.A which I think is ineffective), haven't followed markets in years, and his general advice seems solid/reasonable to me.

Thanks guys I'll check out AMP!

So frustrating with IB - years back I was trying to learn to read the DOM by using IB data so I guess it was all for nothing.


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## RobinHood (30 April 2013)

So I seem to be limited to AMP (CQG) and Kinetic if I want data good enough to be able to learn patterns off the DOM. Otherwise, I have to pay for TT/CQG. If I pick up a few instruments to concentrate on I could always pay some data then use IB for all other charts.

CanOz how are you getting your Kospi data?

TH I remember you were using IB a while back.. were you still using them to read DOMs in your markets?


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## Trembling Hand (30 April 2013)

All this stuff about IB being no good is a bit strange to me.


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## Gringotts Bank (30 April 2013)

Can I ask everyone's thoughts on DTN IQFeed data?


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## CanOz (30 April 2013)

RobinHood said:


> CanOz how are you getting your Kospi data?




I'm not getting any Kospi or HSI data, there are no retail suppliers with level II, other than IB...

Interactive Brokers is fast, but not accurate. For me,that results in white prints on the tape that are not even assigned on the DOM, it seems worse at some times more than others. I also use bid/ask tools to gauge the pressure being put on the market and these tools need accurate data.

From the Rancho Dinero site...




> .   Interactive Brokers: While the IB feed is super-fast, its volume data is sampled and compressed ..




At the same time, I have to give weight to TH's opinion that the data doesn't make as much of a difference when just using the DOM, but perhaps that is due to his experience in the pattern and flow of orders hitting the market.

I would like to sort out this debate once and for all one day though.

CanOz


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## CanOz (30 April 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Can I ask everyone's thoughts on DTN IQFeed data?




I can't use it because the level II data separates from the level I data and I get a price or print, away from the inside bid and ask. This happens because of latency. If you are close to the exchange or have a super fast static connection you might be fine. CQGs data stays synced for me, even through the GFW. IQFeed is generally viewed as the best data on the market, Kinetick is the NT branded version of it.

CanOz


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## Trembling Hand (30 April 2013)

CanOz I guess if you are using it to get some sort of calculation then of course you need perfect data. It would be like back testing using yahoo EOD crap but if you are just looking at it all day and taking discretionary trades then I can tell you there is no advantage over have a direct FIX connect as I now do. 

What annoys me about IBs futs data is they don't filter out enough. You get all the rollovers which are of zero use ticking through and then when you do a re-load they are not included.


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## Gringotts Bank (30 April 2013)

CanOz said:


> I can't use it because the level II data separates from the level I data and I get a price or print, away from the inside bid and ask. This happens because of latency. If you are close to the exchange or have a super fast static connection you might be fine. CQGs data stays synced for me, even through the GFW. IQFeed is generally viewed as the best data on the market, Kinetick is the NT branded version of it.
> 
> CanOz




Thanks.  Would you say IQFeed is best (price/quality) if you were not wanting to read the DOM?


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## Trembling Hand (30 April 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Thanks.  Would you say IQFeed is best (price/quality) if you were not wanting to read the DOM?




Do they have ASX?


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## CanOz (30 April 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Thanks.  Would you say IQFeed is best (price/quality) if you were not wanting to read the DOM?




Actually If you don't need level II then take a look at using IB or even eSignal. 

Really depends on what you want GB. I need a little more detail.....is it futures or equities? Are you only using a chart, or the time and sales? With IB, the price is accurate and fast in times when the market is fast, but I am 100% sure the volume is not completely reported.

TH, I will see if I can set up some kind of comparison using my screens to show you what I mean.

Cheers,


CanOz


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## Gringotts Bank (30 April 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> Do they have ASX?




Not sure.  The reason I ask is I'm hoping to have someone trade for me (someone who knows about futures unlike me), and he tells me he uses IQFeed, which I'd have to pay for indirectly.

Canoz^^


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## waza1960 (30 April 2013)

> All this stuff about IB being no good is a bit strange to me.




  IB would be the best broker for futures trading no doubt



> Thanks. Would you say IQFeed is best (price/quality) if you were not wanting to read the DOM?




  You guys are getting away from the issue IMO............

 IB disadvantages= $10k to open an account / Not suitable for the inexperienced/Is data free?/Is data good enough?

  The only reason I recommended AMP was you got free (except for opening a live account)high quality data (Propex use CQG)no exchange fees and included SFE .
  I have no idea of how AMP are as a broker etc but for $400 to open a live account it seems the best way to go to 
 learn trading and of course with NT you get a sim account, A good combination IMO.

  As far as the Kospi goes well you are simply not going  to get one solution which covers everything aren't the other 100's of futures enough to sim on?


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## CanOz (30 April 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Thanks.  Would you say IQFeed is best (price/quality) if you were not wanting to read the DOM?




For what markets? The reason i ask is that eSignal might be cheaper for some of the Asian only markets. 

IQFeed is amoung the best data providers out there.

CanOz


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## Gringotts Bank (30 April 2013)

CanOz said:


> For what markets? The reason i ask is that eSignal might be cheaper for some of the Asian only markets.
> 
> IQFeed is amoung the best data providers out there.
> 
> CanOz




That's fine.  I just wanted to check he wasn't using a second rate data supplier.  Commodities and index futures.


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## Trembling Hand (30 April 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Not sure.  The reason I ask is I'm hoping to have someone trade for me (someone who knows about futures unlike me), and he tells me he uses IQFeed, which I'd have to pay for indirectly.






Gringotts Bank said:


> That's fine.  I just wanted to check he wasn't using a second rate data supplier.  Commodities and index futures.




I'm intrigued GB. tells us more. Short term/longterm? System or disc? Guaranteed capital or you carry the risk? Years trading OPM?


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## Gringotts Bank (30 April 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> I'm intrigued GB. tells us more. Short term/longterm? System or disc? Guaranteed capital or you carry the risk? Years trading OPM?




I've been trying to find a good discretionary futures trader for a while now.  Someone who would consider trading OPM.  I wanted to find him, rather than him find me.  I can't find anyone who would guarantee capital, unless it was one of those bigger managed futures firms, but their returns are usually much smaller.  The guy I like trades his own money successfully, short term, and has never traded anyone else's money.  If I do go ahead I first have to work out security issues, fees etc.  Not easy.  I think IB has a friends and family account structure that might work.  I never wanted to have an IB account but it looks like the only way of doing it.


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## waza1960 (30 April 2013)

Does he have good "Gut Feel" lol sorry GB couldn't resist


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## CanOz (30 April 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> CanOz I guess if you are using it to get some sort of calculation then of course you need perfect data. It would be like back testing using yahoo EOD crap but if you are just looking at it all day and taking discretionary trades then I can tell you there is no advantage over have a direct FIX connect as I now do.
> 
> What annoys me about IBs futs data is they don't filter out enough. You get all the rollovers which are of zero use ticking through and then when you do a re-load they are not included.




Looking at a normal DOM, such as TT or IB you would not likely notice any difference. Using the Jigsaw DOM with the Reconstructed Tape, you can see white prints (as opposed to green for htting the offer and red for hitting the bids), that are unassigned. During slow markets this is not a problem, they are fewer. But during fast markets you get a stream of prints and you have no idea whether or not they were hitting the bid or the offer, unless you are quick enough to notice the change in the depth as they sweep...or you have a Jigsaw DOM.

Just working on a screenshot or video at the moment. A bit slow because i need to use the ES....

Maybe i can try the HSI...

CanOz


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## Gringotts Bank (30 April 2013)

waza1960 said:


> Does he have good "Gut Feel" lol sorry GB couldn't resist




That's what I'm after, a discretionary ninja jet-fighter who has finely honed instincts (and a really nice equity curve to match).  If you know of any I should check out and add to my list, please PM me.


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## boofis (30 April 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> That's what I'm after, a discretionary ninja jet-fighter who has finely honed instincts (and a really nice equity curve to match).  If you know of any I should check out and add to my list, please PM me.




Ooo Pick me! I'm always up for people to throw money into the stash!


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## waza1960 (30 April 2013)

> That's what I'm after, a discretionary ninja jet-fighter who has finely honed instincts (and a really nice equity curve to match). If you know of any I should check out and add to my list, please PM me.




 You'll be lucky to find anyone . 
 Why would a gun trader work for a private individual considering that the individual may not understand risk/trading (What happens when a trade is underwater by a significant amount?)
  When he/she could trade with a Prop shop from home if necessary with unlimited size and very good support.
  Just don't see it happening


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## white_goodman (30 April 2013)

Gringotts Bank said:


> That's what I'm after, a discretionary ninja jet-fighter who has finely honed instincts (and a really nice equity curve to match).  If you know of any I should check out and add to my list, please PM me.




haha good luck


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