# Ask, Last, Bid Parameters In Order Types  (Market, Limit, Stop)



## monkey0 (8 December 2013)

Hi,

My question is related to any trading platform and any country's stock market.

3 types of orders exist and two situations so we have 6 combinations:

1. Limit order, buying
2. Limit order, selling
3. Stop order, buying
4. Stop order, selling
5. Market order, buying
6. Market order, selling

So I would like to know which price in which situation/combination do I look at? According to my research the answers should be (note: extreme care when comparing combination id and order type):

1.: Buying is done when price reaches my defined one or below. NOT so called Jumping Near Y Axis (see at the bottom of message for definition of this term) price BUT ASK price. I spent money what I define and this earning is ASK price or price below ASK price. So my defined price is all the time being compared to ASK price. This is completelly against what I have previously learned from here:

http://daytrading.about.com/od/daytradingbasics/a/BidAskLast.htm

Here says ''the lowest price that a trader is willing to pay''. NOT true!!! Order is processed if price reaches the one which is BELOW defined one. But generally I am asking in all those 6 combinations to which price is my defined one compared.

2. Selling is done when price reaches my defined one or above. NOT so called Jumping Near Y Axis price but BID price. I earn what I define and this earning is BID price or price above BID price. So my defined price is all the time being compared to BID price.

3. Two explanations possible, which one is correct?

3.1. This combination (stop order buying) has nothing to do with ASK price. Also nothing to do with BID price. When my defined price (or lower since its buying) reaches the realtime platform market's price in exact microsecond (=Jumping Near Y Axis price), order will be executed BUT (!!!!!!!!) only on FIRST NEXT Jumping Near Y Axis price regardless being higher or lower from defined price. 

3.2 My defined price is compared with ASK price. When it is reached (or lower since its buying), the order is executed OR processed (big difference!) according to the Jumping near Y Axis price.

Case 3.2 further has two possibilities:

3.2.1 Is order executes and processed on first next Jumping near Y Axis price? OR,

3.2.2 Is order already processed in the same nanosecond as reaching the ASK price according to 3.2?

4. Two explanations possible, which one is correct?

4.1. This combination (stop order selling) has nothing to do with BID price. Also nothing to do with ASK price. When my defined price (or higher since its selling) reaches the realtime platform market's price in exact microsecond (=Jumping Near Y Axis price), order will be executed BUT (!!!!!!!!) only on FIRST NEXT Jumping Near Y Axis price regardless being higher or lower from defined price.

4.2 My defined price is compared with BID price. When it is reached (or higher since its selling), the order is executed OR processed (big difference!) according to the Jumping near Y Axis price.

Case 4.2 further has two possibilities:

4.2.1 Is order executes and processed on first next Jumping near Y Axis price? OR,

4.2.2 Is order already processed in the same nanosecond as reaching the BID price according to 3.2?

5. AND 6: I have no idea. Here I think neither ASK nor BID price are relevant. They aren't important. Only Jumping near Y Axis price is.

NOTE1: The term ''Jumping Near Y Axis'' price is defined by me as current price on the market if realtime platform. For further explanation what do I mean with this term and examples, see the url link above.

NOTE2: On trustworthy source I have heard a lot of talks about ''LAST'' price. According to my message, your explanation, LAST price means nothing in neither of those 6 combinations. What do I use LAST price for then? In which combination?

So to prevent getting reply I am not asking for, I will ask again. *My questions are:*

- at which price (market, limit, stop - any platform, any country stocks) do I look at in above 6 combinations? Which at 1.? Which 2.? Which 3.? Which 4.? Which 5.? Which 6.?

- according to which price (ask, last or bid?) do I earn if combination 2., 4. or 6.?

- according to which price (ask, last or bid?) do I spend money if combination 1., 3. or 5.?


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## monkey0 (10 December 2013)

so could anyone please answer this?


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## CanOz (10 December 2013)

you have complicated a very simple auction process...i don't even understand the question


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## tech/a (10 December 2013)

CanOz said:


> you have complicated a very simple auction process...i don't even understand the question




I've re read it and I think I know what he means.
Just haven't had the time to knock up an answer.
But the process is as you say simple.
But as usual humans complicate it!

Ill have a crack a when I have time---probably Wednesday night.


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## CanOz (10 December 2013)

tech/a said:


> I've re read it and I think I know what he means.
> Just haven't had the time to knock up an answer.
> But the process is as you say simple.
> But as usual humans complicate it!
> ...




Thanks Tech, i want to have a go it answering but i've just got too much on...trying to get ready for 3 days in Thailand...sun and fresh air!


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## burglar (10 December 2013)

CanOz said:


> ...  3 days in Thailand...sun and fresh air!




Don't wear a red shirt!!


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## CanOz (10 December 2013)

burglar said:


> Don't wear a red shirt!!




I've packed neutral colors...thanks burgs..


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## tech/a (10 December 2013)

CanOz said:


> Thanks Tech, i want to have a go it answering but i've just got too much on...trying to get ready for 3 days in Thailand...sun and fresh air!




Wish I had that sort of too much on.


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## burglar (10 December 2013)

monkey0 said:


> ... 3 types of orders exist and two situations so we have 6 combinations: ...




I will try to make a start. 

If I want to buy an icecream I need to go to a retail outlet that sells icecream.
So far I am only buying! I don't overcomplicate this transaction!

Your broker knows about the three stops. 
Figure out what *you* want in a stop. 
Then ask your broker which stops, if any, meet your needs.

My broker has a trading room with telephone, email or post.
The team is very helpful.


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## monkey0 (10 December 2013)

tech/a as you can see in my username, im monkey and not human and we like to complicate things to learn deeper, better and to understand more.

I am asking same questions in third different way and this time I will do my best to be understandable in most possible brief and understandable way:

1. Limit order: here I define the price I want to either sell or buy stocks. When the actual price on market is exactly the same as this defined price, the stocks are sold/bought. If buying and if actual price on market goes below defined one, buying order is executed anyway. If selling and if actual price on market goes above defined one, selling order is executed anyway. What of the following four options is here counted as Actual Price On Market:

- Bid price
- Ask price
- Last price
- price near Y axis which is usually jumping up and down all the time

2. Market order: in both buying/selling is order executed immediately when confirmed/verified. Adding the order does NOT execute buying/selling unless platform doesn't have confirmation/verification window. For which of the following prices are stocks sold/bought:

- Bid price
- Ask price
- Last price
- price near Y axis which is usually jumping up and down all the time

I would say fourth one since there is market price but Im unsure if either bid, ask, or last price is the same as fourth one.

3. Stop order: in both buying/selling case the order is executed once actual price on market is the same as defined price BUT (!!!!!) for the actual price on market which will be FIRST NEXT (no matter if above or below comparing to defined price) from the moment when it reaches my defined one. So selling/buying is done according to FIRST NEXT price. Question: Is what i said about ''FIRST NEXT'' price correct or not? If not, is buying/selling therefore done when actual price on market reaches my defined price? I think not because this way Stop order would be the same as Market order with no difference.

4. What is ''actual price on market'' in third question (in stop order)? Which of the following:

- Bid price
- Ask price
- Last price
- price near Y axis which is usually jumping up and down all the time

Note that knowing the fact I earn what Bid price says and I spent what Ask price says does NOT answer any of those four questions.


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## burglar (10 December 2013)

monkey0 said:


> ... Note that knowing the fact I earn what Bid price says and I spent what Ask price says does NOT answer any of those four questions.




My broker does not offer these things of which you speak.
As far as I know, every broker is different.
Therein lays some of your difficulty.

Use the KISS principle.
KISS is an acronym for "Keep it simple, stupid"


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## skyQuake (10 December 2013)

I'll have a crack at this...



monkey0 said:


> tech/a as you can see in my username, im monkey and not human and we like to complicate things to learn deeper, better and to understand more.
> 
> I am asking same questions in third different way and this time I will do my best to be understandable in most possible brief and understandable way:
> 
> ...



What do you mean by price near Y axis?

Market price is the Last traded price. If an active stock is $1.05 bid and $1.06 ask, you can place a limit at $1.06 or higher for an instant fill. Or at $1.05 and wait for someone to sell stock to get your fill.




> 2. Market order: in both buying/selling is order executed immediately when confirmed/verified. Adding the order does NOT execute buying/selling unless platform doesn't have confirmation/verification window. For which of the following prices are stocks sold/bought:
> 
> - Bid price
> - Ask price
> ...




If you're buying, you're get done at the Ask price. If selling, you'll get done at the Bid price. Your order will create a new "last" price after its executed.



> 3. Stop order: in both buying/selling case the order is executed once actual price on market is the same as defined price BUT (!!!!!) for the actual price on market which will be FIRST NEXT (no matter if above or below comparing to defined price) from the moment when it reaches my defined one. So selling/buying is done according to FIRST NEXT price. Question: Is what i said about ''FIRST NEXT'' price correct or not? If not, is buying/selling therefore done when actual price on market reaches my defined price? I think not because this way Stop order would be the same as Market order with no difference.



Stop limit: Once the last price = stop price, execute buy/sell order at limit price (may or may not instant fill depending on where your limit is)
stop market: Once the last price = stop price, execute buy/sell order at Market price. (instant fill)

All this is readily available on google, in more detail too


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## monkey0 (11 December 2013)

skyQuake said:


> What do you mean by price near Y axis?




http://fousalerts.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/speedtrader.png 

If you may please carefully look at this chart. You will see the arrow at the top right side (not yet a corner) being directed in the left side. It is impossible to see the number due to bad photo quality. 

In following platform this price is shown three times (different stocks): 

https://www.interactivebrokers.com/images/common/tradingtech_tws_006.png 

All three times obviously in yellow place near Y axis: 1308.25, 131.30, 131.30

So as actual price near Y axis I was referring to the market price at exact time of looking (assuming platform is realtime) or differently said: ''jumping'' price near Y axis.

----------------------------------------
skyQuake thank you for your reply but you didn't understand the first question. I already know what does Last price term mean. If/when you will be available and willing to, if you could read again the same question. 

Regarding 2: So the ''jumping'' price has nothing to do with Market order, neither for selling nor buying case? You are saying I should look at Ask price (buying) and Bid price (selling)? I thought I should look at market price and exact market price is for my opinion the jumping price - price near Y axis (example on above links).

Regarding 3: I don't think on platforms (resources from where I am learning) order with name ''stop limit'', ''stop market'' exist. As far as i know there are three order types with EXACT names: ''stop'', ''limit'' and ''market''. I have never heard for term ''stop price'' but i think your term ''last price'' is actually ''my defined price''. Anyway, how about that ''first next'' price I am asking for in STOP order?

and what about:



> 4. What is ''actual price on market'' in third question (in stop order)? Which of the following:
> 
> - Bid price
> - Ask price
> ...




Exluding third question which needs more exact info, I am only asking where exactly to look at (four possibilities: bid price, jumping price as known as price near Y axis, ask price, last price) in described cases.


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## tech/a (11 December 2013)

Frankly after reading this I won't be answering.
Too damned hard.( from the reply to Skyquake )

As Skyquake points out there is more than enough for you
To find on google.
Your platform will have a help desk ---- send them your 
Questions.


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## monkey0 (11 December 2013)

tech/a said:


> Frankly after reading this I won't be answering.
> Too damned hard.( from the reply to Skyquake )
> 
> As Skyquake points out there is more than enough for you
> ...




Why hard? Who else would I need to ask? Different forum?


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## tech/a (11 December 2013)

http://www.nasdaq.com/investing/glossary/

Do some homework.
If you still have questions after reading up then limit them to easy
bullet points.
EG
Why is my order filled below my Specified limit price?

Jumping price needs to be added to this glossary I have provided---


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## burglar (11 December 2013)

monkey0 said:


> Why hard? ...




It is hard because I don't know what you don't know!?




monkey0 said:


> ... Who else would I need to ask? ...




As tech/a and I have said, talk to your broker / platform provider




monkey0 said:


> ... Different forum?




This is a great forum ... tech/a is one of the best traders here, as is skyquake!

Different forum will give different answer. But no guarantee.


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## monkey0 (11 December 2013)

burglar said:


> It is hard because I don't know what you don't know!?




Please see post number 13 where I asked in most understandable possible way. If size of the post (13th one above) is large for YOUR opinion, let this don't confuse you.


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## tech/a (11 December 2013)

monkey0 said:


> Please see post number 13 where I asked in most understandable possible way. If size of the post (13th one above) is large for YOUR opinion, let this don't confuse you.




define jumping Price?

Is it orders moving through the bid/ask and your seeing this price jump around where as the chart price isn't exactly the same?

By the way the IB charts aren't all different.
you have 2 time frames for SPY.

Your concern seems to be that you cant define a price due to this jumping so cant determine what order to place and what fill you'll get?

Am I close?
If not please re phrase your question.
So we know what it is your really asking?


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## monkey0 (11 December 2013)

tech/a said:


> define jumping Price?




With term Jumping Price I was referring to the currect exact price on the market assuming that platform (e.g. speedtrader) is realtime and it is being refreshed in microseconds. This price is the one near Y axis on all trading platform charts. There is only one (so you cannot overlook it) price near Y axis and i called it as Jumping Price. It is usually changing all the time. It is NOT (!!!) in Making Order window but I repeat (although sne of 3 prices i am asking for might be the same), it is on the charts - near Y axis.

In the post number 13 in this topic, where I did my best to be as much as possible understandable, I was asking only (excluding third query) at which price out of four possibilities (price near Y axis as known as ''Jumping Price'', last price, bid price, ask price) do I LOOK AT when doing specific order out of three possible ones: stop order, limit order, market order. I know definitions of those four prices but this doesn't yet mean I know the answer on just repeated question: at which price out of four do I look at for each (out of 3) type or order? I for sure look at the same price (out of 4) in both buying and selling case but in order types I look at different prices: At which one for stop order? At which one for limit order? At which one for market order? I repeat, once again, I am only asking AT WHICH PRICE TO LOOK AT for said three cases. I look at the same one when buying or selling, it is only different based on order type. I never asked about price definitions.

For third query: Here I only wanted to make sure if my understanding of Stop order is correct. I define the price for selling/buying but I don't earn (if sell) or spent (if buy) based on this defined, my own chosen, price if reached. I know the price MUST be reached exactly. According to what I have learned is: If the current price on market (Jumping Price) goes below that defined price or above it, the order is NOT executed as it would be in Limit order. But this has nothing to do with my question. What I am asking is completely different: In Stop order what exactly happens when current price on market reaches (gets the same) my defined price? What happens in this moment in Stop order? Is order executed based on first next price (no matter if above or below defined one) on the market (option1) OR based on the current price on the market in exact nanosecond comparing to the time when my define prices reaches this price on the market (option2)? It could be possible, although I doubt that, option3 exist too. However on all resources I am learning from, I get only option1 and option2 definitions for Stop order but for beginner like me, they are so similar that I need to ask to get an answer. I don't manage to figure out based on given explanations of Stop orders. Please answer what I am asking, don't just explain what Stop order is. There are already countless of explanations.

I apologize for posting on your forum with such stupid questions but Im sure everyone was at the beginning of trading career on the step where I am now.


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## tech/a (11 December 2013)

I will give you an answer but I doubt any answer s going to be satisfactory for you.

(1) I personally dont use depth so I look at the price on the chart initially.
Even when using 1 minute charts. If something is moving fast and you want to get on
Buy a market.
If you are in line for he open or close auction an you want to be filled at open or close then nominate your limit price far enough away from the likely close out and you'll be filled.
if you want to get out at a price then place a stop limit order.

I'll jump to 3 
If you place a stop order and there is no ask or bid at the price nominated
OR
There is not enough stock available at the price you nominate then you may be partially filled or not filled at all.

I'm not really sure what question 2 is it seems to morph into 1
Which price ---- personally I don't think it matters.
If you really wan it buy at market ---- else----- set a stop or limit order.

It's not that hard!


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## monkey0 (12 December 2013)

tech/a I appreciate your reply but what are you talking about? My four (4) questions were completely different.. You were speaking about theory i think but in 1. 2. and 4. i was only asking at what price to LOOK at. In 3. I guess I was understandable enough.. explained many times.


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## tech/a (12 December 2013)

monkey0 said:


> tech/a I appreciate your reply but what are you talking about? My four (4) questions were completely different.. You were speaking about theory i think but in 1. 2. and 4. i was only asking at what price to LOOK at. In 3. I guess I was understandable enough.. explained many times.




Well there you go.
At least I got one thing right.

Sorry I cannot be of help.
Enjoy your journey.


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## monkey0 (12 December 2013)

tech/a said:


> Well there you go.
> At least I got one thing right.
> 
> Sorry I cannot be of help.
> Enjoy your journey.




I am asking most basic questions that could ever be asked. How is possible that someone with 13938 posts on stocks trading forum cannot answer them?


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## Porper (12 December 2013)

monkey0 said:


> I am asking most basic questions that could ever be asked. How is possible that someone with 13938 posts on stocks trading forum cannot answer them?




You are not really lending yourself to people helping you with your attitude.


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## tech/a (12 December 2013)

monkey0 said:


> *I am asking most basic questions that could ever be asked.* How is possible that someone with 13938 posts on stocks trading forum cannot answer them?




Just dumb I guess.
I have absolutely no idea what the answer is.
In fact I have absolutely no idea what the questions are!

You'd have to ask yourself how basic your questions are with the response you have had so far here and to your service providers.
Perhaps you just have a unique way of asking questions.
Your obviously an intelligent Monkey and even *YOU* cant find the answers to your Most basic of questions

Nor does anyone else here by the look of it.
Perhaps another forum would be more appropriate for you.
Have a great Xmas.

Perhaps trading isn't for you?


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## kid hustlr (12 December 2013)

LOL this thread is absurd.

In regards to (3) it is not technically first next.

If you set a buy stop at xyz and someone lifts that price in its entirety YOU WILL PAY THE NEXT PRICE ABOVE. You will NEVER get a fill below you buy stop order. It's either at that price or a price above it. This is what slippage is.

Truth be told I don't even know what you are asking and guys a lot smarter than me can't seem to help you so not sure why I'm trying. As far as what price to 'look at' I have no idea what you mean. 

The chart reflects last price traded


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## kid hustlr (12 December 2013)

Further, with querie 3, and I think Tech/TH someone will be able to answer this one.

Tech, say as an example the FTSE. its currently: 6483.5/6484

If I have a buy stop @ 6485, it is possible that the inside market can move to say 6486.5/6487 WITHOUT the market trading.

In that case, my understanding is your buy stop will be triggered once the first trade is made above 6485, so in this example if someone buys 6487 our buy stop then gets triggered and we buy that price to. 

I'm not 100% sure on this however.


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## monkey0 (12 December 2013)

Don't know how is possible everyone can get assist in other topics but only me not. Rude or better said weird, don't know what I have done wrong. 

"kid hustlr" In 1 2 4 I am only asking at what should I look at (4 possibilities named several times). In 3 im only asking what happens when defined price reaches current price near y axis. This was (is) all I wanted to know but noone wants to answer.

For 1 2 4 answers the following photo might be useful:

http://www.quotetracker.com/images/qtpics/tradingdemo2.gif

Even the jumping price (also known as Price Near Y Axis and also known as Current price on market) is shown here (20.57). In all three questions (1 2 4) i was only asking which price (the one near y axis, last, bid, ask) is important for stop order, which for market order, which for limit order. Same price is for both buying/selling case but I should look at different one (4 possible prices!) - depends on order type. So what do I spent (buying) or earn (selling) in stop order - which price? what in market, what in limit? thats all. 

in 3. question i was just saying what exactly happens (stop order only) when defined price reaches Price Near Y Axis (=current price on market). What is sold (what i earn) or what is bought (what i spent).


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## Trembling Hand (12 December 2013)

What broker are you using?

And stop using "jumping price" that is something you have made up. If you want help from a community you should have the respect to at least learn the correct terms other wise no one will be able to understand you.


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## tech/a (12 December 2013)

kid hustlr said:


> Further, with querie 3, and I think Tech/TH someone will be able to answer this one.
> 
> Tech, say as an example the FTSE. its currently: 6483.5/6484
> 
> ...




Yeh its happened to me.
Infact its happened twice on trailing stop fills and cost me.
Fortunately not on any trades I've left open and gone to bed!
Stop limit the go! (Note to self)


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## Caveroute (12 December 2013)

monkey0 said:


> Don't know how is possible everyone can get assist in other topics but only me not. Rude or better said weird, don't know what I have done wrong.
> 
> "kid hustlr" In 1 2 4 I am only asking at what should I look at (4 possibilities named several times). In 3 im only asking what happens when defined price reaches current price near y axis. This was (is) all I wanted to know but noone wants to answer.
> 
> ...




I've asked once before on a different thread .. "what lives in Norway and has a name that begins will T" ?

Why can't anybody answer my question ... god dammit ... it's simple enough ......


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## Caveroute (12 December 2013)

tech/a said:


> Yeh its happened to me.
> Infact its happened twice on trailing stop fills and cost me.
> Fortunately not on any trades I've left open and gone to bed!
> Stop limit the go! (Note to self)




But not on trailing stops, right, otherwise you could kiss your account good bye.


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## monkey0 (12 December 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> What broker are you using?




None, im just starting out with learning. Don't want to play lottery and test the luck to profit/lose money. I only start once I can rely on my knowledge I have the ''right'' to expect profit. PLUS you might have overlooked the following - first sentence in first post:



> My question is related to any trading platform and any country's stock market.




All questions are very general and I believe the same regardless of platform or country where company is located.

Still waiting for this...


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## ngombi (12 December 2013)

OK, so are are completely new to the market.
You imply that your query is the simplest of questions. They are badly worded questions with the terminology you have used.

Assuming that they really are "the simplest of questions" (they should not really require explanation) I will provide a simple answer.

If you want to buy and are willing to pay the Ask price:-    Use a market order.
If you want to sell and are willing to receive the Bid price:-   Use a market order.
There is no need for you to specify a price using an at market order.

You should get filled at those prices unless the market is moving very quickly in which case you could get filled at a higher or lower price. 
*BUT note* that the parcel size you require comes into play in comparison to what is on offer or wanted at certain prices to complete your order; in which case your order could again be completed at a higher or lower price.

For a Limit or Stop order; be it buying or selling; the Last, Ask or Bid are irrelevant because you decide and specify the price that you wish to trade at.


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## burglar (12 December 2013)

ngombi said:


> ... For a Limit or Stop order; be it buying or selling; the Last, Ask or Bid are irrelevant because you decide and specify the price that you wish to trade at.



Hi ngombi,
Welcome to ASF.

A very succinct reply, I look forward to your future posts!


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## skc (12 December 2013)

monkey0 said:


> Don't know how is possible everyone can get assist in other topics but only me not. Rude or better said weird, don't know what I have done wrong.




Your questions are very poorly worded, I've read them several times and coudn't make any sense of them. I think quite a few people are willing to help here but you might as well have posted the questions in Portugese.



monkey0 said:


> in 3. question i was just saying what exactly happens (stop order only) when defined price reaches Price Near Y Axis (=current price on market). What is sold (what i earn) or what is bought (what i spent).




For example, no one has ever used the term "earn" and "spent" as trading terminologies. "Price Near Y Axis" or "Jumping Price" also simply make no sense to every trader on this forum. 

What you call "Jumping price" is simply a number on a chart. Depending on the charting package used, you can choose for yourself to show on a chart the ASK, the BID, the mid point, or the last traded price. But what is showed on the chart is completely irrelavent to where your price will be filled. 



monkey0 said:


> http://www.quotetracker.com/images/q...adingdemo2.gif
> Even the jumping price (also known as Price Near Y Axis and also known as Current price on market) is shown here (20.57). In all three questions (1 2 4) i was only asking which price (the one near y axis, last, bid, ask) is important for stop order, which for market order, which for limit order. Same price is for both buying/selling case but I should look at different one (4 possible prices!) - depends on order type. So what do I spent (buying) or earn (selling) in stop order - which price? what in market, what in limit? thats all.




In the image you have attached...

- If you buy at market, you will buy at $20.58.
- If you sell at market, you will sell at $20.57.

- If you buy at limit price (say you specify to be $20.57), your buy order will join the market depth at $20.57 behind the current volume of 224 shares. You won't have a fill until all 224 shares in front of you have been traded or deleted, and someone moves down and sells into your price. 
- If you sell at limit price (say you specify to be $20.58), your sell order will join the market depth queue at $20.58 behind the current volume of 815 shares. You won't have a fill until all 815 shares in front of you have been traded or deleted, and someone steps up and buys into your price. 

- If you buy at stop price (say you specify to be $20.58), your order will not appear in the market depth. It will be held and monitored by your broker. If someone else trades at $20.58, your stop is triggered and a buy order (at market or at limit, depending on the broker) will be sent. If there are any remaining asks at $20.58 you will be buying at that price, but if there are no more asks at $20.58, you may end up buying at a higher price.

- If you sell at stop price (say you specify to be $20.58), your stop order will be triggered straight away (as the last price was $20.57 which is less than your stop price) and a sell order (at market or at limit, depending on the broker) will be sent. You will sell into the current bids at $20.57 and trade at that price.

All of the above assumes that the bids and asks remain as they are and that your volume doesn't exceed the current available bid and ask volumes.

Hope this helps. If you have further questions it would be helpful to use the right terminology so people can better understand you. Good luck.


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## monkey0 (13 December 2013)

ngombi: appreciated your reply, specially last paragraph. Thank you.

*skc*: For purpose of learning only (not trading with ''real'' money) I am using demos on platforms: Interactive Brokers, eSignal, Speedtrader. Unless I find some better analyzing/trading platform, I will most likely use Speedtrader because Interactive Brokers isn't realtime but with 1 delay. I want to be realtime so to the same microsecond as prices are really varying. For me the term ''better'' (have to explain it since for someone might be this term different than for anyone else) actually means platform with higher amount of features. Anyway, the reason for saying this is that I didn't notice anywhere ''stop market'' or stop limit'' type of orders. Per my understanding on the start of stocks trading ''career'' there are only and exactly the following three types of orders with exact quoted names and Nothing else:

"Market" Order Type
"Limit" Order Type
"Stop" Order Type

For me types/terms "Stop Market" and "Stop Limit" don't exist (yet). NOT because I wouldn't want to learn this but because I haven't heard this on either of resources I am learning from so I am going to have big problems understanding what you meant with:



> (at market or at limit, depending on the broker)




Here:



> If someone else trades at $20.58




With term ''trades'' you were referring to both/either selling and/or buying case BUT only if this person (''someone else'') trades at STOP order. Only this one. Market and/or limit don't count here. Correct (*****)? So according to what you said and what I quoted then my Stop order for buying case will be executed/triggered already if only ONE person, whoever, does explained trade. Is this correct what you meant with term ''someone else trades''?



> If there are any remaining asks at $20.58 you will be buying at that price




I might be going into too small details but buying/asks in what time interval? As long as order is still active and/or NOT cancelled by me. Is this correct?



> if there are no more asks at $20.58, you may end up buying at a higher price




So if not even one person buys at $20.58 - this is what you were probably referring with ''no more asks''. 
However, as far as I understood and what *ngombi* said, since its Stop order, I define the price for which i want to buy or sell but now you are saying ''end up buying at a higher price.'' This isn't what ngombi said - this isn't anymore my defined price unless you SKC meant that I define ''higher price'' once again. Did you mean this? Do I define that higher price if not even one person (after my order is added/verified but NOT executed) buys at this exact price? If I remember correctly, when I was checking this on IB demo, I didn't get any requirement to add another price for Stop (buying) order in such case. As ''requirement'' is meant I would at least expect (any platform) window that automatically pops up where I am notified that noone bought for this exact price and therefore I need to enter new price (does that new price MUST be higher? or can be equal previous one once again? or can be lower?). I highly doubt platform (once again, any platform, so asking/saying generally) would ''force'' me to buy at some random price if I don't agree with it. Once again, in this paragraph I am only referring to:

- who is considered as ''no more asks''? Is one person only enough?
- whatever exactly happens if noone buys at $20.58: i don't think first next price that probably comes in next few microseconds would force me to buy (automatically).

Therefore if at least one person trades (buys/stop order Only - see ''*****'' symbol above - just wanted to be understandable) at this price, my order will be executed *IMMEDIATELY* (or at later time? or when broker reacts? probably immediately) when this happens.



> If you sell at stop price (say you specify to be $20.58), your stop order will be triggered straight away (as the last price was $20.57 which is less than your stop price) and a sell order (at market or at limit, depending on the broker) will be sent. You will sell into the current bids at $20.57 and trade at that price.




So here Last price is important. Ngombi said its not (neither ask,bid) but he was probably referring to the fact according to which price type do I sell/buy. 
What if the price of type Last was equal to my defined one?
What if above?

I thought I will be having problems understanding in selling case of Stop this:



> (at market or at limit, depending on the broker)




as I have problems understanding in buying case of Stop (see reason above - same quotation) but you are basically saying I always sell at price shown by price type Last. This is understandable yes but different comparing to Ngombi's words. So all information/question still needed for selling case of Stop order is what if price was equal? and what if price was higher? you only said for lower case.


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## tech/a (13 December 2013)

OMG

Let me guess
You had " problems "
During your schooling.

You dismantle the car
Before purchasing it.

Your on your 4 TH wife.

You've not grasped chess.

You google google.


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## Trembling Hand (14 December 2013)

tech/a said:


> You google google.




LOL, doesn't that break the interweb? 



monkey0 said:


> as I have problems understanding in buying case of Stop (see reason above - same quotation) but you are basically saying I always sell at price shown by price type Last. This is understandable yes but different comparing to Ngombi's words. So all information/question still needed for selling case of Stop order is what if price was equal? and what if price was higher? you only said for lower case.



Monkey0 I will save you from crashing the internet and causing a black hole to appear at the centre of the earth in which we all get sucked into by offering a 30 min phone call to help clear all this up.

I think that will be the quickest way to answer your questions rather than 1000s of words back and forth. If you think that would be helpful I can private messaged you my number?


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## tech/a (14 December 2013)

Trembling Hand said:


> LOL, doesn't that break the interweb?
> 
> 
> Monkey0 I will save you from crashing the internet and causing a black hole to appear at the centre of the earth in which we all get sucked into by offering a 30 min phone call to help clear all this up.
> ...




Nice Jesture

You'll need a translator.


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## monkey0 (22 December 2013)

So many questions and nothing solved so far  Not easy when you need very EXACT answer on microscopically detailed question but cannot find it anywhere


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## skc (23 December 2013)

monkey0 said:


> So many questions and nothing solved so far  Not easy when you need very EXACT answer on microscopically detailed question but cannot find it anywhere




Did you take up the offer to speak with Trembling Hand over the phone?


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## monkey0 (25 December 2013)

skc said:


> Did you take up the offer to speak with Trembling Hand over the phone?




Yes we spoke. Thanked him for his time for me, appreciate and respected his time. I even offered him payment so he wouldn't consume it for me for nothing. However honestly not a single question was answered. He spoke only what I already learned. Only user ''ngombi'' really offered a piece of needed info that I was really asking for. I am still searching for consultant who could answer my remaining questions. Did my best to research for them on my own but the questions seem to be too detailed to just find an answer from X resource. It could be possible I am asking too many questions at the same time.


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## beachlife (25 December 2013)

monkey0 said:


> Hi,
> 
> My question is related to any trading platform and any country's stock market.
> 
> ...




Ok the night market is quiet so I will have a crack at this.  Lets just get buying to enter under control.

5. Buy at market.  You will pay whatever the ask is until your order is filled.  If you say buy 1000 at market, and there is 500 @ 4.48 they will buy 500 @ 4.48, then if the market is running you might have to pay $4.60 for the next 500.  They will fill at what ever ask price is there until your order is completed.

1.  Limit order - This is really buy at market with a top limit.  eg.  Buy at market with a limit of $4.50 means you will be filled at any price up to $4.50.  You may get a part fill at $4.48 and the rest at $4.50 depending on how many sellers there are.  Or if as above the market runs off, you may get 500 at $4.48 and no more.  You could be stuck with a partial fill.  Think of it as buy at any price but no more than $4.50.

3.  Buy on stop.  eg buy 1000 on stop at $4.50.  Say if you want to get in but only when some resistance is broken, say $4.50.  What will happen is once the stock trades at $4.50, your order becomes a market order and you will be filled at what ever ask price is available.  Might be $4.50, might be $4.60.  So think of it as buy at market but only once the stock trades at $4.50 or more.

Then with some brokers you can combine them.  You can say buy on stop at $4.50, limit $4.60.  You will then be filled somewhere between $4.50 and $4.60, if the market depth is there.  This protects you from gaps.


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## monkey0 (26 December 2013)

beachlife thank you for reply. Major part of your message, user ''ngombi'' already explained. However in platform like Speedtrader, there is no ''stop limit'' as what are you indicating in latest paragraph of your message. It is just ''stop'' and only one price to be defined. But regarding ''*stop*'' there are several facts that confuse me:

1 (stop only): I understand the price on market has to match my defined price but its confusing when you said ''stock trades at $4.50''. Stock cannot just trade at something but there must be some comparison between TWO prices if they match: the one I define and another one. You forgot to say which one is ''another one''? Obvious answer is ''the trading one!''? But which one? Probably Ask price if I buy (my defined price must match with Ask price) or Bid price (my defined price must match with Bid price) if I sell. Thats what ''ngombi'' said - yes i choose for which price to sell/buy but it has to be compared with something so it reaches/matches it - I don't have any particular question here. So if reaching is done, I spent/earn exactly what I define in the ''stop'' trigger/order because as far as I understand in same microsecond is then conversion to market order done *AND* that order processd. So again, if reaching is done (if exact price as defined IS on market after i add stop trigger/order), I always buy/sell for exact price as defined in stop trigger/order. If not true, please tell me whats wrong then.

2 (stop only): When price gets the same, the ''stop'' trigger/order is executed and market order processed: IF i buy then im buying according to Ask price. IF i sell then im selling according to Bid price. For beginner like me, this is very important. Its not just ''trading price'' - it is either Ask price or Bid price. Thats understandable BUT:

2.1 What if I am *buying* (Ask price vs. my defined price) and my defined price is NOT reached/matched but instead gets *above* my defined one? E.g. I define $4.50 but Ask price on market moves from $4.48 to $4.51?
2.2 What if I am *buying* (Ask price vs. my defined price) and my defined price is NOT reached/matched but instead gets *below* my defined one? E.g. I define $4.50 but Ask price on market moves from $4.51 to $4.49?
2.3 What if I am *selling* (Bid price vs. my defined price) and my defined price is NOT reached/matched but instead gets *above* my defined one? E.g. I define $4.50 but Ask price on market moves from $4.48 to $4.51?
2.4 What if I am *selling* (Bid price vs. my defined price) and my defined price is NOT reached/matched but instead gets *below* my defined one? E.g. I define $4.50 but Ask price on market moves from $4.51 to $4.49?

I am only referring to the prices (defined one, bid one, ask one) in stop trigger/order so BEFORE it gets converted into market order or at exact conversion time. So in 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4 im referring to the case *whether or not* conversion into market (and then market order processed) gets done in those four situations. Does it happen? Or not? In which situation yes, in which not? To clarify even more: In those four situations im only asking if conversion from stop to market will be done or not. I know what will be spent (Ask price - buying) or earned (Bid price - selling) in market order then.

3 (stop). I did my best to be as much as possible understandable and so I will be again: In your part of the comment you indicated an answer for 2.1 and 2.2, you forgot for 2.3 and 2.4: However according to what you said, I should be in ''stop'' trigger/order forced to potential infinity lose. Limit order (yes i know im talking about ''stop'' but had to mention ''limit'' anyway) is known that if im buying, the order is processed when defined price is the same as Ask price (so i spent exactly what i define) *OR* if Ask price gets below my defined one. For selling in Limit order is opposite: Bid price the same as defined one OR above. But in stop trigger/order I can see potential infinitive lose: As far as i know I only define ONE price (at least in speedtrader platform). So since conversion from stop to market order is done only at the time (if in any other times, answers on 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4 will telll) when my defined price reaches Ask (if buying) or Bid (if selling), we CANNOT know what will be the market price (ask/bid) in that exact ''reaching'' time - we cannot annonce this in advance. So if buying, that market price can go to the sky high and i would be ''forced'' to buy for that ''sky high'' price. Or if differently saying: if selling, the market price can go in that exact conversion/reaching time to the bottom and I would be ''forced'' to sell for tiny price. There must be some protection for this. Isn't it? So we can protect ourself from extreme lose.

4 (all 3 cases - stop buying, market buying, limit buying): If enough stocks, for exact price I want to buy are NOT available, then I buy for exact wanted/defined price whichever quantity is available. Order for remaining quantity *still remains active* even after I buy lower quantity than I want to so for that remaining stocks, the order is still there. Price never changes (unless I do manually) regardless on any case (out of 3). Then we have two possibilities:

A) All remaining stocks become available (same price as defined).
OR
B) Only partial quantity of stocks become available (same price as defined).

If A: Those remaining stocks get automatically bought and then order gets finished/cleared.
OR
If B: Only partial quantity get automatically bought. Step B is repeated (for again remaining stocks) and order remains until entire quantity is bought (if GTC status of order).

Question: Is what I said correct or not? Yes or No? If No, what is wrong - most likely that Im wrong with thinking that the price won't *automatically* change?


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## beachlife (26 December 2013)

before I tackle that, are you talking about cfd's or shares?


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## AlterEgo (27 December 2013)

Ok, I’ll try to have a go at explaining the “stop order” that you seem confused by.

Say you want to buy when price moves above $4.50 (it is currently trading below this price), you’d place a buy stop order at $4.51, then if the *last traded price* (*not* the bid or ask, but the* last price*) is at $4.51 *or above* (it does not need to exactly match, only be at or above that price), then your order will automatically become an “at market” order and will trade at the best (lowest) price available at that time. So what price you'd get filled at (ie. the price you'd actually pay) you could only guess at - you would not know before the event. You could make a reasonably educated guess as what price you'd likely get filled at (ie. the price you would pay) based on what is in the market depth, but you wouldn't know for sure until your order has actually traded.


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## RADO (27 December 2013)

The primary benefit of a stop-limit order is that the trader has precise control over when the order should be filled. The downside, as with all limit orders, is that the trade is not guaranteed to be executed if the stock/commodity does not reach the stop price.

 A stop order is an order that becomes executable once a set price has been reached and is then filled at the current market price. A limit order is one that is at a certain price or better. By combining the two orders, the investor has much greater precision in executing the trade. Because a stop order is filled at the market price after the stop price has been hit, it's possible that you could get a really bad fill in fast-moving markets (slippage).

 For example, let's assume that BHP. is trading at $40 and an trader wants to buy the stock once it begins to show some serious upward momentum. The trader has put in a stop-limit order to buy with the stop price at $45 and the limit price at $46. If the price of BHP moves above $45 stop price, the order is activated and turns into a limit order. As long as the order can be filled under $46 (the limit price), then the trade will be filled. If BHP gaps above $46, the order will not be filled.

Buy Stop = is an order to buy above the current price. If you place a buy order below the current price its a limit order, simple as that.


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## beachlife (27 December 2013)

AlterEgo said:


> Ok, I’ll try to have a go at explaining the “stop order” that you seem confused by.
> 
> Say you want to buy when price moves above $4.50 (it is currently trading below this price), you’d place a buy stop order at $4.51, then if the *last traded price* (*not* the bid or ask, but the* last price*) is at $4.51 *or above* (it does not need to exactly match, only be at or above that price), then your order will automatically become an “at market” order and will trade at the best (lowest) price available at that time. So what price you'd get filled at (ie. the price you'd actually pay) you could only guess at - you would not know before the event. You could make a reasonably educated guess as what price you'd likely get filled at (ie. the price you would pay) based on what is in the market depth, but you wouldn't know for sure until your order has actually traded.




That's how it works for shares, or futures, cfd's are different, which is why we need to know what he is trading.


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## monkey0 (27 December 2013)

worldwide stocks regardless on name of platform. I assume the answers are the same no matter which platform would be used.


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## monkey0 (30 December 2013)

hello?


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## beachlife (30 December 2013)

Ok I think I understand your confusion. 

Buying : buy at $4.50 on stop, the order will become active as a market order if the stock trades at $4.50 or more, based on last price, could have been bid or ask met, doesnt matter.

Selling : sell at $4.50 on stop, is $4.50 or less based on last.



monkey0 said:


> 2.1 What if I am *buying* (Ask price vs. my defined price) and my defined price is NOT reached/matched but instead gets *above* my defined one? E.g. I define $4.50 but Ask price on market moves from $4.48 to $4.51?
> 2.2 What if I am *buying* (Ask price vs. my defined price) and my defined price is NOT reached/matched but instead gets *below* my defined one? E.g. I define $4.50 but Ask price on market moves from $4.51 to $4.49?
> 2.3 What if I am *selling* (Bid price vs. my defined price) and my defined price is NOT reached/matched but instead gets *above* my defined one? E.g. I define $4.50 but Ask price on market moves from $4.48 to $4.51?
> 2.4 What if I am *selling* (Bid price vs. my defined price) and my defined price is NOT reached/matched but instead gets *below* my defined one? E.g. I define $4.50 but Ask price on market moves from $4.51 to $4.49?




Forget about bid or ask.  All that matters for stocks is last, which is the traded price.  Once the last price triggers your order it will become a market order and will fill at the best available price, ask if buying, bid if selling.

For example. Last is $4.49.  Spread moves to $4.49/$4.50.  Nothing will happen until someone buys at $4.50.  The spread could sit there for 2 seconds and move back to $4.48/$4.49.  If no one bought at your price then nothing would have happened.  (different for cfd's)

Or there could be some news and the price jumps to $5.  That will trigger your order and you may be filled at $5.10. Extreme example but possible.



monkey0 said:


> A) All remaining stocks become available (same price as defined).
> OR
> B) Only partial quantity of stocks become available (same price as defined).
> 
> ...




Yes correct.  Order remains active until filled or cancelled, but without a limit, it will always be completed at some price.


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## monkey0 (30 December 2013)

Alright, what you said is completely against what user ''ngombi'' said but thank you for clarifying 2.1, 2.2., 2.3 and 2.4. 

In Limit order, selling is done if defined price is the same as, according to the latest explanation received in this topic, LAST price or *above* (limit order!!!) and buying is done if defined price is the same as LAST price or *below*. In Limit order are earnings (selling) then based on BID price while spendings (buying) are based on ASK price. The _difference to the Stop order_ is that said bolded words in this paragraph are replaced so:

In Stop order, selling is done if defined price is the same as LAST price or *below* and buying is done if defined price is the same as LAST price or *above*. Also in Stop order are earnings (selling) then based on BID price while spendings (buying) are based on ASK price. *Is everything what i typed here, in second and third paragraph, correct?*

In ''3.'' could be possible that I still wasn't understandable. Assuming the answer on question in second-previous sentence is positive then: At the time of buying when stop order gets processed, which means when it goes into market order, the difference between Last price and Ask price (=price of spending per one stock) might be so extreme that I lose infinitive amount of funds. Differently said: Ask price could be in rare situations so much higher than Last price that I would be automatically buying for very much unwanted price with which I would never agree on. Very extreme, perhaps even unrealistic, example (still assuming the answer on asked question is positive):

defined price in stop order (max amount i want to pay for one stock): $4.50
last price: $4.54 (so stop order is processed)
ask price (after last price is above defined one): $7.20
quantity of stocks to be bought: 1000

So i would be willing to invest $4500 maximum but here I would be actually forced to spend $7200 so $2700 (7200 minus 4500) would be literally wasted for nothing. As far as I know only ONE price can be defined in the order. Is there any protection and if so, which, that such disaster wouldn't occur? I won't complain for selling case (earning a way too less as I would want to) because Im sure same protection of same answer could be used for selling also.


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## beachlife (30 December 2013)

Yes all correct.

Here is a real example from BHP.  Say your order was buy on stop was $36.35, so at the end of this day nothing has happened.




The next  morning it opens at $39.75, so you are filled at that price or maybe a bit higher, then it falls and keeps falling.  You have spent more than you want and maybe lost more than you want.






This is where stop-limit orders can protect.  If your order was buy on stop at 36.35, limit 36.80, your order would not have been filled because it opened above your limit.  Not many online platforms offer this, but you can use a full service broker where it will be managed by a person, not a computer.


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## monkey0 (30 December 2013)

So since in all orders (market order, limit order, stop trigger/order) can be defined only one price, if I understand well, there is no such protection I would manually within platform make in Stop trigger/order to prevent situation of infinity lose (buying/selling for unwanted price) described on example in my previous post? Or is there something that could be done? What were you showing in graphs isn't protection at all. Its only assumption based on historical records. You were ending your latest reply saying I would have to discuss such protection with broker. So that means I cannot implement solution on my own? I apologize for consuming your time and complaining so much but if you aren't sure what exact situation am I talking about then please review my text of previous message starting with: In ''3.'' ...


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## beachlife (31 December 2013)

No for protection use a limit order not a stop order.  Buy at $4.50 limit means you will pay no more than $4.50.


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## monkey0 (31 December 2013)

Ok understood all. Although I have other questions, not related to this topic anymore, it is explained/solved. If you know any private econsultant who could teach/answer for payment, please let me know his/her contact details and I will message to ask where to send my payment for his/her service. For this topic you helped a lot - I understand now what I was asking. Thank you very much for your time.


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## burglar (31 December 2013)

burglar said:


> My broker does not offer these things of which you speak.
> As far as I know, every broker is different.
> Therein lays some of your difficulty.
> 
> ...




Alternatively: "Use the Force!!"


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