# Who will be the first gaoled over this mess??



## Trembling Hand (10 October 2008)

In every popping of speculative bubbles there is always someone ending up in jail. As the suffering public call for blood and the populist pollies look to be doing something. We have had shorts and speculators blamed for the meltdown. I think whatever your opinion on shorting is you would still hopefully recognise that they are a long way away from the cause of this problem.

Bernard Ebbers got 25 years for fraud, conspiracy and filing false documents at World.con. Others from the same company got into various trouble with the law. Here in Oz we had the Poseidon bubble which, from Wikipedia “The Rae Committee handed down its report on the Poseidon bubble, in which it documented numerous cases of improper trade practices. It recommended a number of changes”. As well as the Bond corp. and Allan Bond gaoling and Scase fiasco.

*So who is going to get it here? Who and what do they deserve for bringing down the world’s financial system??*

I vote for this goober,




For this,




I reckon he and his cronies were criminally negligent in creating the biggest debt orgy and asset bubble the world has seen in a long long time. It has now crippled the system and will hurt a lot of people not to mention the destruction of capital that has been acquired through honest hard work that is now being pi$$ed up against the wall.

Any others??


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## IFocus (10 October 2008)

Toooo many to name.....


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## Buddy (10 October 2008)

Trembling Hand said:


> In every popping of speculative bubbles there is always someone ending up in jail. As the suffering public call for blood and the populist pollies look to be doing something. We have had shorts and speculators blamed for the meltdown. I think whatever your opinion on shorting is you would still hopefully recognise that they are a long way away from the cause of this problem.
> 
> 
> 
> Any others??





Er............goober 2 & goober 3?


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## Whiskers (10 October 2008)

Trembling Hand said:


> *So who is going to get it here? Who and what do they deserve for bringing down the world’s financial system??*
> 
> I vote for this goober,
> 
> ...




Not sure he'll be strictly 'criminally' neglegant, but certainly the US administration was neglegant in not ensuring that proper lending and valuation proceedures were adhered too. 

Just because funds were aplenty and interest rates were cheap... the temptation... does not absolve corporate exec's of their fiduciary duties.

Certainly many corporate execs are and will continue to face fraud and various criminal and civil charges... although that's no consellation for the moment.

PS:



> We have had shorts and speculators blamed for the meltdown. I think whatever your opinion on shorting is you would still hopefully recognise that they are a long way away from the cause of this problem.




It's true they are not the cause of the problem, but unfortunalely they are nonetheless the type of tools that these people exploit to compliment their dishonest and illegal ones. 

In that context I suppose the ironic justice in all this is a few have caused the market to become a lot more transparent, accountable and even nationalised  in the future.



Buddy said:


> Er............goober 2 & goober 3?




Yes, I think they probably ruined it for 'capitalism' at least for awhile.


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## tcoates (10 October 2008)

Again on the CNBC videos...

Dylan wants someone to pay for this... see...

http://www.cnbc.com/id/27101332/

(about 8min into video)

Tim


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## Glen48 (10 October 2008)

I shows we need regulation to stop these ex motel owners etc from getting all this power. How many retired OZ will now live in poverty until the end of their days?
I went through a divorce 10 yrs ago and got cleaned out now the World is going through the same thing only this time I am cashed up and debt free... so far.
A lot of drivel must be taught at Harvard and other UNI's on how to run a business next course will be on  what not to do in business and why Plasma TV , SUV's 4WD's changed the World.
Next week we will see big companies dropping like flies such as Ford GM Apple, Air craft manufactures, Melbourne has stopped work on the new Airport.


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## Trembling Hand (10 October 2008)

Whiskers said:


> It's true they are not the cause of the problem, but unfortunalely they are nonetheless the type of tools that these people exploit to compliment their dishonest and illegal ones.
> 
> In that context I suppose the ironic justice in all this is a few have caused the market to become a lot more transparent, accountable and even nationalised  in the future.





You have to be kidding?????????????????????

So the shorts and share market speculators are the same ones responsible for the credit crunch & financial system meltdown?? Are they?


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## chops_a_must (10 October 2008)

It's all Bernanke's fault according to Greenspan.

What a knob jockey.


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## Whiskers (10 October 2008)

Trembling Hand said:


> You have to be kidding?????????????????????
> 
> So the shorts and share market speculators are the same ones responsible for the credit crunch & financial system meltdown?? Are they?




Nooo... that's not what I said or implies at all.

That's like saying all gun owners are criminals. 

Just because you own a gun doesn't make you a criminal... hell, I've got a brother with a cupboard full of them, but he's an officer in the reserves and has represented in shooting comps.

Similarly with investing tools... but that doesn't change the fact that in the wrong hands just as firearms, they can be used illegally and cause a lot of damage.

TH, I've said it before... some of you guys are so parinoid about any crititism involving your favourite trading tools. Cool off man and get a bit of context.


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## Trembling Hand (10 October 2008)

Whiskers said:


> Similarly with investing tools... but that doesn't change the fact that in the wrong hands just as firearms, they can be used illegally and cause a lot of damage.
> 
> TH, I've said it before... some of you guys are so parinoid about any crititism involving your favourite trading tools. Cool off man and get a bit of context.




Whiskers tell me, Please.

the Hedge funds that trade exchange traded futs and the ones that short, are they the same as the ones that were rapping up toxic dept and selling it as an asset to the suckers that believe there should be a perpetual bull market in assets? condoned by regulators who enable such a destructive bubble cycle??


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## rub92me (10 October 2008)

Some of the candidates mentioned may deserve to be jailed, but certainly won't be. Many large companies (and former market darlings) have been under a lot of pressure in the past 6-12 months trying to avoid going under. That's an ideal breeding ground for corporate fraud. So yes, we'll see a lot investigations and a lot of CEO's and CFO's facing charges and getting jail terms. 
Plus I can see some draconian corporate regulation changes coming down as well after some order has been restored.


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## Trembling Hand (10 October 2008)

rub92me said:


> Plus I can see some draconian corporate regulation changes coming down as well after some order has been restored.




Yeah especially in the States when/if the democrats get in. Some tosser from the Dem side, senator/congressman, was saying they should bring in a speculators tax last night.


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## nunthewiser (10 October 2008)

can we still jail bill clinton ?.after all aint he the person that started this whole saga with his chat to fanny and freddie and told them to give loans to underpriveledged, immigrants and all the other members of society that would not have been able to secure a normal mortgage through normal channels.

lol stuff it i want bert newton jailed too


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## Whiskers (10 October 2008)

Trembling Hand said:


> Whiskers tell me, Please.
> 
> the Hedge funds that trade exchange traded futs and the ones that short, are they the same as the ones that were rapping up toxic dept and selling it as an asset to the suckers that believe there should be a perpetual bull market in assets? condoned by regulators who enable such a destructive bubble cycle??




TH, in the context of talking about who should be goaled, the legal concept of _Caveat Emptor_ provides considerable protection and remedy for those so called 'suckers'. The notion of let the buyer beware isn't an open liscence to mislead, deceive or otherwise make any misrepresentation, even by remaining silent about material information regarding the transaction.

Having said that, and one finds your purchase was a fraud and you then decide to conceal that and pass it on again, you then become tainted also. 

As I mentioned earlier you can point the finger at the regulators to a certain extent, but since you're talking about goal, that involves 'criminal' liability as opposed to civil law.

The bottom line for corporate exec's is they have a fiduicary duty which in criminal  and civil law they are responsible for their own actions... especially resisting the temptation to act irrisponsibly.

No amount of beuaracratic incompetance takes away from this fiduicary duty.



rub92me said:


> Plus I can see some draconian corporate regulation changes coming down as well after some order has been restored.




I agree. Unfortunately, that's the obvious consequence.



Trembling Hand said:


> Yeah especially in the States when/if the democrats get in. Some tosser from the Dem side, senator/congressman, was saying they should bring in a speculators tax last night.




TH, what good will abusing the regulators do? You abuse them for not acting in the first place and even allowing... almost like excusing the actions of the wall street cowboys because someone wasn't keeping a close eye on them as though caveat emptor was an open book to do what they want... and on the other hand you wonder why and complain if the the gov impliments more supervision and regulations.

Isn't it becoming abuntly obvious that the industry was unwilling and or unable to enforce voluntary codes of conduct? 

So what is left other than for the gov to jump in and clamp down? How will the problem just wash out or the industry remedy the 'criminal' and civil' wrong doings by itself? While individuals and corporations adversly affected can take remedial action in the courts, the gov and the people have no grounds whatsoever to believe that the industry will clean up on its own... hence tut tar (open) free market capitalism and hello socialism.


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## nioka (10 October 2008)

Trembling Hand said:


> Yeah especially in the States when/if the democrats get in. Some tosser from the Dem side, senator/congressman, was saying they should bring in a speculators tax last night.




You always think the "tossers" are either democrats or laborites. Isn't it Republicans who are in charge and who are the "tossers" that got us into this situation.

We have a speculators tax. It is called capital gains tax. Sell within 12 months and it is double that for a longer term investment.


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## nunthewiser (10 October 2008)

nioka said:


> You always think the "tossers" are either democrats or laborites. Isn't it Republicans who are in charge and who are the "tossers" that got us into this situation.




refer to post 13


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## chops_a_must (10 October 2008)

nioka said:


> You always think the "tossers" are either democrats or laborites. Isn't it Republicans who are in charge and who are the "tossers" that got us into this situation.



The **** ups transcend left and right, and nations for that matter.


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## Trembling Hand (10 October 2008)

Whiskers said:


> TH, what good will abusing the regulators do?



 Because its a bit of fun.

As for the rest of your post. Just LOL

I have never been against transperancy. I have no idea what the hell you are talking about. But I will note that you tried to tie shorters and speculators to the cause of this problem and have tried to doge my question asking you to confirm this quote,


> It's true they are not the cause of the problem, but unfortunately they are nonetheless the type of tools that these people exploit to compliment their dishonest and illegal ones.


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## Trembling Hand (10 October 2008)

nioka said:


> You always think the "tossers" are either democrats or laborites. Isn't it Republicans who are in charge and who are the "tossers" that got us into this situation.




You are completely and utterly wrong.

Please find another time that I have referred to democrats or laborites let alone signalled them out as the only "tossers".

When you can't make sure you come back and post that you incorrectly accused me and admit that you are very wrong in making such a claim.


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## Green08 (10 October 2008)

Is public flogging back in fashion??

Whipping with no compassion
Greenspan
Bush Snr
Bush Jnr
Bernanke
Paulson
Fuld...................and list goes on

Feminine style as you know there is nothing more dangerous than a women scorned!!!  Now you'll see real blood flow


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## fimmwolf (10 October 2008)

pick a goober any goober


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## Green08 (10 October 2008)

Kitty will save the Day!!


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## Macquack (10 October 2008)

On the local scene, I vote for Allan Moss.

After rorting the company of hundreds of millions of dollars over a decade, the bumbling professor saw what was coming and bailed out in May 2008.

Moss has since cashed out all but a token amount of shares in Mac Group, showing his true loyalty to the "Holey Dollar".


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