# GEM - G8 Education



## Plumber1 (30 March 2011)

I am thinking about investing in this company (G8 Education). But I read some news yesterday that a company that they are buying is going into receivership(see below).

Does anyone know much about this company? It has Jennifer Hutson (from Wellington Capital)as Chairperson and Chris Scott (formerly of MFS Octaviar)  as Managing Director. 

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10937&p=621976&viewfull=1#post621976


http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1118654/1/.html 

All advise would be appreciated.


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## ROE (30 March 2011)

Plumber1 said:


> I am thinking about investing in this company (G8 Education). But I read some news yesterday that a company that they are buying is going into receivership(see below).
> 
> Does anyone know much about this company? It has Jennifer Hutson (from Wellington Capital)as Chairperson and Chris Scott (formerly of MFS Octaviar)  as Managing Director.
> 
> ...




This one on my radar to short something bad 
Very bad fundamentals

I cant work out how I can do it with comsec though


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## Plumber1 (30 March 2011)

*Why* do you think it will go down ?


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## VSntchr (30 March 2011)

Totally agree ROE. 
My dad insists on buying GEM due to Chris Scott being in the management (regarding his involvement with S8).
I do not understand why he says sometimes you just have to buy based on the management.
My argument is that the management is only as good as the figures they achieve..he doesn't seem to listen!!!


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## Plumber1 (31 March 2011)

Today, I have been doing a heap of research on this company and its directors.  

*Chris Scott*
It seems that Chris Scott did well in S8 (even if he was a little naughty  http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2010/12/15/276795_gold-coast-business.html   ).    Mr Scott received  a life ban from obtaining a licence under Queensland's Property Agents & Motor Dealers Act or from becoming an executive of a company with such a licence. Mr Scott was also ordered to pay $130,000 plus the OFT's costs of $66,000. 

I also read that he sold his interests in S8 for shares in MFS which then failed, so he did not end up with too much for all his efforts in S8
*
Jennifer Hutson*
The current chairperson of Wellington Capital.  It seems that there is a long and twisted  saga that is incredibly complex involving Wellington Capital and some other companies.   https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10937&page=332 
(After a couple of hours of reading that thread my head was done in).

*Andrew Kemp*
Andrew Kemp formerly of S8 has joined the G8 Education board
*
I am still interested in investing in this company. But is anyone here have anything they want to add to the thread before I jump in?*


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## seamisty (6 April 2011)

Plumber1 said:


> Today, I have been doing a heap of research on this company and its directors.
> 
> *Chris Scott*
> It seems that Chris Scott did well in S8 (even if he was a little naughty  http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2010/12/15/276795_gold-coast-business.html   ).    Mr Scott received  a life ban from obtaining a licence under Queensland's Property Agents & Motor Dealers Act or from becoming an executive of a company with such a licence. Mr Scott was also ordered to pay $130,000 plus the OFT's costs of $66,000.
> ...



Do some more homework!! http://wincrt.blogspot.com/2011/03/valuebuddiescom-forum-for-value_28.html#2


CHILDCARE operator G8 is facing a legal challenge in Singapore after the souring of its first international deal. 

Full article
http://www.couriermail.com.au/ipad/...s-deal-goes-sour/story-fn6ck2gb-1226031635727

http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore/EDC110331-0000067/Six-childcare-chain-staff-dismissed-by-SMS


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## Plumber1 (16 April 2011)

Seamisty,

Do you have any any updates to this matter?


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## seamisty (16 April 2011)

Plumber1, I posted this earlier on the Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF thread:: I assume you are aware that GEM is in a trading Halt and no announcement has been made to the ASX as yet in relation to the following possible serious financial implications to the company and shareholders? 


Cherie Hearts Group International Pte Ltd

15th April 2011
MEDIA RELEASE FROM CHERIE HEARTS GROUP INTERNATIONAL PTE LTD TO SINGAPORE
MEDIA
We are pleased to inform that the Singapore High Court on 14th April 2011, granted various interim
reliefs in our favour at today’s hearing on our application for various injunctive reliefs against G8
Education Ltd (“G8”). At the hearing, we were represented by our lawyers, Allen & Gledhill LLP.
Pending the determination of the substantive dispute between Cherie Hearts Group International Pte Ltd
(“Cherie Hearts”) and G8, the Court ordered the following injunctive reliefs:
• The appointment of KordaMentha Pte Ltd as receivers of Cherie Hearts is set aside.
• G8 is not to exercise its right to appoint further receiver(s) until trial or further order.
• The shares and directorship in the following subsidiaries of Cherie Hearts, which were previously
transferred to G8’s subsidiary, were reinstated to Cherie Hearts’ Founders, Dr Sam Yap and Dr
Gurchran Singh:
o Cherie Hearts Kids Cottage (TK);
o Cherie Hearts Edukidz Pte Ltd (JT);
o Cherie Hearts Discovery School Pte Ltd (TS 42);
o Cherie Hearts Preschool Pte Ltd (TP);
o Cherie Hearts Sunshine Kidz Pte Ltd (TS 34);
o Our Juniors’ Schoolhouse Pte Ltd;
o Cherie Hearts Childcare (Limbang) Pte Ltd (LD);
o Teeny Tiny Child Care & Development Centre Pte Ltd (TT);
o Loving Child Care Centre Pte Ltd (LLC);
o Loving Development Pte Ltd (LDC);
o Gloryland Learning Centre @ Toh Tuck Pte Ltd; and
o Gloryland Learning Centre Pte Ltd.
We take this opportunity to express our gratitude once again to our parents, financial institutions, banks
and government authorities for your support all these years, and also for the understanding shown over
the past few weeks. We look forward to having your continued support.
Yours Faithfully
Sam Yap Soon Guan (Dr.)
Group Executive Chairman
Cherie Hearts Group International 

And this article as well, Cheers.
 Re: Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF 
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...123079/1/.html
Cherie Hearts suing Australian firm for breach of contract

SINGAPORE : Childcare operator Cherie Hearts is suing Australian firm G8 Education for breach of contract.

It has also successfully applied for a court order overturning a receivership appointment by G8, which the operator said was unlawful.

The move by G8 had put Cherie Hearts under threat of liquidation.

But while the operator appears to be out of the woods for now, its sale agreement with G8 is up in the air, with possible implications on future expansion plans by Cherie Hearts.

Lawyers for Cherie Hearts declined comment on the deal pending the outcome of the trial.

Last October, G8 agreed to buy over Cherie Hearts' Singapore operations for S$24.6 million, as part of a move by the Australian-listed firm to expand its childcare business into Singapore.

An affidavit submitted by Cherie Hearts detailed how, as part of the business acquisition contract, G8 would extend a S$12 million loan to Cherie Hearts and assume part of its outstanding debts.

The loan was to have been offset against the purchase price, and Cherie Hearts would receive some S$9 million once the sale was completed.

But on March 22, with a few weeks to go, receivers were called into the operator's Cecil Street headquarters, with G8 alleging a loan default of S$5.5 million. 

This was disputed by Cherie Hearts, which said its loans had been effectively paid off as of March 1.

It later found out that G8 had also exercised its security over the alleged loan default, and, without its knowledge, assumed control of 12 of its subsidiary companies in Singapore.

Cherie Hearts has since assumed control of the 12 centres.

The case is now pending trial.


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## Plumber1 (19 April 2011)

So it looks like G8 has lost about$12 million dollars that they loaned Cherie Hearts ?? 
And have been forced by the Courts to hand back the child care centres and now lost control of the company?
Not a good sign.


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## Plumber1 (25 April 2011)

There seems to be too much drama with this company and especially  its Management team. 
I think I will look for better investments.


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## NOR (25 April 2011)

Plumber1 said:


> There seems to be too much drama with this company and especially  its Management team.
> I think I will look for better investments.




AS A VERY SAD INVESTOR IN MFS...PIF NOW WELLINGTON CAPITAL  I AGREE  GO LOOK VERY  QUICK HOPE U HAVE BETTER LUCK THEN US  WC    J H WE WILL REMEMBER


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## Plumber1 (27 April 2011)

The price has just hit 91c which is a new low for 2011.  
Whew, I think I dodged a bullet by not buying into this share. I would have lost around 10% -15%  in only a couple of weeks.
There seems to be too much drama associated with this company and especially its Management team.


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## seamisty (8 May 2011)

My information is that Cherie Hearts has terminated their agreement with G8 and have taken back legal rights to all the centres due to G8 having breached a number of clauses in the contract.
Also there are CPIB, ACRA and several other police investigations going on in regards to this case and Chris Scott is presently undergoing questioning.
The Accounting and Corporate Regulatory Authority (ACRA) is the national regulator of business entities and public accountants in Singapore. ACRA also plays the role of a facilitator for the development of business entities and the public accountancy profession. http://www.acra.gov.sg/

The Corrupt Practices Investigation Bureau (CPIB) is an independent body which investigates and aims to prevent corruption in the public and private sectors in Singapore. Established in 1952, it derives its powers of investigation from the Prevention of Corruption Act (Chapter 241). The bureau is headed by a director who is directly responsible to the Prime Minister. http://app.cpib.gov.sg/cpib_new/user...t.aspx?pgID=21 
Wow, if this information is indeed correct, the ASX has not been notified and G8 continue to include potential revenue raised from these centres in their profit statements, while previously maintaining that this claim was 'beyond remote' in substance?

I am also of the understanding that several unhappy franchisees who have been novated over to G8 are acting/have acted to terminate their Franchise Agreements!!

Seamisty


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## seamisty (15 May 2011)

Hi all, Attatched are two files relating to G8 Education, the first correspondence is from Cherie Hearts relating to 'misleading information to G8 stakeholders' to the ASX, the second is from the HIGH COURT OF THE REPUBLIC OF
SINGAPORE. Interesting reading. Seamisty


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## rmstrader (23 May 2011)

seamisty said:


> Hi all, Attatched are two files relating to G8 Education, the first correspondence is from Cherie Hearts relating to 'misleading information to G8 stakeholders' to the ASX, the second is from the HIGH COURT OF THE REPUBLIC OF
> SINGAPORE. Interesting reading. Seamisty




Seamistry - I am unable to find the letter written to the ASX from Cherie Hearts on the ASX site?? are you aware of its source?? It seems a bit bogus to me. Its not on Cherie Hearts letter head?? its not signed?? its either suss or a worry that such a letter is not on the companies official letterhead nor sign by the CEO??


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## rmstrader (25 May 2011)

rmstrader said:


> Seamistry - I am unable to find the letter written to the ASX from Cherie Hearts on the ASX site?? are you aware of its source?? It seems a bit bogus to me. Its not on Cherie Hearts letter head?? its not signed?? its either suss or a worry that such a letter is not on the companies official letterhead nor sign by the CEO??




Seamisty - I pride my self on the research that I undertake when I buy any shares and while I am certainly not a big time trader if your in the game then play it right. I recently purchased a small parcel of G8 shares as I was alway impressed with the management team at S8 in terms of the financial results that they achieved. I've got to say that in the last 12 months they have done the same thing at G8.

I joined this site hoping that it would give me an extra edge in terms of market knowledge, but it seems to me that a lot of info that is disseminated is promoted for self benefit not Knowledge.

If you are going to put information on a site you need to be prepared to back it up - some far I have had NO acknowledgement or answers to my questions. Are you able to assist?


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## Plumber1 (13 July 2011)

Plumber1 said:


> The price has just hit 91c which is a new low for 2011.
> Whew, I think I dodged a bullet by not buying into this share. I would have lost around 10% -15%  in only a couple of weeks.
> There seems to be too much drama associated with this company and especially its Management team.




Wow, the price has now dropped to 72c.  
I sure dodged a bullet by not buying this company. I would have lost *another* 20% since the above post just 10 weeks ago. 

It looks like the Wellington Capital saga is affecting this company.


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## ROE (13 July 2011)

I done the figures on childcare business
you cannot make much money out of them.

they are in the same basket case as airlines..

to beat the market all you need is avoid ****ty business 

most of the time I make great return by just avoiding 
all the ****ty business...

Take heed in these Warren Buffett timeless advices..

'When a management with a reputation for brilliance tackles a business with a reputation for poor fundamental economics, it is the reputation of the business that remains intact.’

You can have the best managers in the world running an unsound business model
you still end up losing money...


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## J12 (20 July 2011)

Quick update from Singapore for all those concerned; 

In reference to the update by G8 Education Limited on their Singapore Acquisition and Litigation made on their website dated 14 July 2011, the 24 franchised centres are in fact, indirectly involved in the suit between Cherie Hearts Group International Pte Ltd (Cherie Hearts) and G8 Education Limited (G8). Cherie Hearts with effect of 25th April 2011, has terminated all agreements with G8. In the event that Cherie Hearts wins the suit, this would imply that Cherie Hearts will regain ownership of the franchised centres as well. With the termination of the agreements and without any financial closure, any and all IP rights remain the property of Cherie Hearts.

It is not entirely true that all profits derived from the 13 centres flow to G8. In fact, if Cherie Hearts wins the suit, G8 is to return all profits collected from all the centres beginning from March 2011 onwards to Cherie Hearts. Rightfully, G8 should allocate a portion of "contingent liabilities" in its accounts to cater for such suits, not forgetting the writ of summons served to G8 for claims of damages.

Lastly, on the matter of the 5 centres which G8 claims they acquired directly, Cherie Hearts will address that at the appropriate time and forum.




seamisty said:


> Do some more homework!! http://wincrt.blogspot.com/2011/03/valuebuddiescom-forum-for-value_28.html#2
> 
> 
> CHILDCARE operator G8 is facing a legal challenge in Singapore after the souring of its first international deal.
> ...


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## seamisty (20 July 2011)

Nazreen said:


> Quick update from Singapore for all those concerned;
> 
> In reference to the update by G8 Education Limited on their Singapore Acquisition and Litigation made on their website dated 14 July 2011, the 24 franchised centres are in fact, indirectly involved in the suit between Cherie Hearts Group International Pte Ltd (Cherie Hearts) and G8 Education Limited (G8). Cherie Hearts with effect of 25th April 2011, has terminated all agreements with G8. In the event that Cherie Hearts wins the suit, this would imply that Cherie Hearts will regain ownership of the franchised centres as well. With the termination of the agreements and without any financial closure, any and all IP rights remain the property of Cherie Hearts.
> 
> ...



Thats really interesting  as there was  a GEM announcement on the ASX today http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20110720/pdf/41zvvyr7xrnv3b.pdf which showed a profit downgrade but made no mention of the possibility of  having to return profits back to Cherie Hearts. It also made no mention of any' contingent liabilities' only a statement saying::
 "The variance in the revised calendar year 2011 forecast in the consolidated group is primarily due to delayed settlement of the acquisitions in Singapore. 

In addition there are one off legal due fees arising from the current litigation between G8 Education Limited and Cherie Hearts Group International (
the vendor). 

In really small print it says:"# Excludes legal fees of $420,000 forecast to be incurred in relation to the litigation between CHGI and G8 Education Limited as these are considered non recurring expenses". 

Anyway it was obvious the market did not like the announcement as there was a large sell off and the next bid is only for 67cents.

Might be the end of G8 divvies for awhile or are investors wary of management with all the adverse Wellington Capital/Ms Hutson media of late???
Seamisty


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## seamisty (21 July 2011)

Legal dispute cuts into G8 net profit
Nick Nichols, business editor   |  July 21st, 2011


Chris Scott and Jenny Hutson.
A LEGAL stoush over a Singapore acquisition has shaved more than $2 million of G8 Education's profit expectations for the 2011 financial year.

http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2011/07/21/334095_gold-coast-business.html


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## J12 (21 July 2011)

Hi All,

Am strongly inclined to agree with Seamisty, here's the link to a letter circulated to Cherie Hearts franchisees dated 13th July... 

http://www.cheriehearts.com.sg/CHLetter01113Jul.pdf




seamisty said:


> Thats really interesting  as there was  a GEM announcement on the ASX today http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20110720/pdf/41zvvyr7xrnv3b.pdf which showed a profit downgrade but made no mention of the possibility of  having to return profits back to Cherie Hearts. It also made no mention of any' contingent liabilities' only a statement saying::
> "The variance in the revised calendar year 2011 forecast in the consolidated group is primarily due to delayed settlement of the acquisitions in Singapore.
> 
> In addition there are one off legal due fees arising from the current litigation between G8 Education Limited and Cherie Hearts Group International (
> ...


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## seamisty (21 July 2011)

Welcome J12, NO SURPRISES re current GEM management only revealing half the story!! Just ask any Premium Income fund investor about honesty, transparency and performance by Ms Hutson and her team at Wellington Capital!! I am sure most GEM  investors are starting to realise just how vulnerable they are after the current media reports exposing the unacceptable tactics being exercised by WC which are directly associated with AND IMPACTING on the long suffering PIF investors. Not to mention the often 1-500 share GEM share transactions at close of trade (usually on a Friday to pump up share price). Anyway, the only thing I can see G8 has in  common with S8 is legal action relating to management  and the same recurring names.
Semisty


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## seamisty (27 July 2011)

I imagine the sophisticated and professional investors who participated in the G8 education share placement of 21 million shares at 90 cents each in Feb 2011 aren't real happy with the current GEM shareprice of 67 cents? OUCH!


http://www.aussiebulls.com/StockPage.asp?CompanyTicker=GEM.AX&MarketTicker=Australian&Typ=S

GEM.AX 
G8 EDUCATION ORD 
ASX 
Daily Commentary
Our system posted a HOLD today. The previous BUY recommendation was issued on 07.15.2011 (11) days ago, when the price was 0.7250. Since then GEM.AX has fallen -7.59% . 
A Warning is in order! The previous BUY signal failed. Downward momentum now reached to intolerable levels. 

You can either wait for a new bullish alert or sell the immediately. It is up to you. We owe you an apology. 

You can play the short side assuming all risk if you want to. Our stance, however, is currently neutral in this matter.


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## Plumber1 (30 July 2011)

Plumber1 said:


> The price has just hit 91c which is a new low for 2011.
> Whew, I think I dodged a bullet by not buying into this share. I would have lost around 10% -15%  in only a couple of weeks.
> There seems to be too much drama associated with this company and especially its Management team.







Plumber1 said:


> Wow, the price has now dropped to 72c.
> I sure dodged a bullet by not buying this company. I would have lost *another* 20% since the above post just 10 weeks ago.
> 
> It looks like the Wellington Capital saga is affecting this company.




The last sale price on Friday was 63c.   This share has lost 40% in only the last 4 months.  
 I am so glad I never bought this turkey.  (I was given a "hot tip" in early March that it as going to $5  )


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## seamisty (5 August 2011)

Plumber1 said:


> The last sale price on Friday was 63c.   This share has lost 40% in only the last 4 months.
> I am so glad I never bought this turkey.  (I was given a "hot tip" in early March that it as going to $5  )



Would love to know where your 'hot tip' came from Plumber1, I think the tipper must have got confused and accidentlly added an extra 0. 50cents is looking more the go. I am interested in the outcome from this months legal outcome re Cherie Hearts and G8.(not to mention Forest resort re Wellington Capital) Chris Scott and Jenny Hutson are on investors do not invest radar, I don't think they can afford any more adverse legal findings or adverse publicity. Seamisty


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## Plumber1 (12 August 2011)

seamisty said:


> Not to mention the often 1-500 share GEM share transactions at close of trade (usually on a Friday to pump up share price).
> Semisty




I had noticed that too. 
There was a transaction today (Friday) at 3.45pm that boosted the price up.


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## seamisty (16 August 2011)

Here is a link I found on the G8 education website  to a report promoting GEM, G8 education. The report was undertaken by a company called Petra Capital PTY LTD who was paid by G8 to capital raise by promoting G8 shares::

http://www.g8education.com/broker_coverage_reports/index.cfm?fuseaction=get&id=115
Disclosure
Petra Capital Pty Ltd and its associates, officers, directors, employees and agents, from time to time, may hold securities in companies researched by Petra
Capital Pty Ltd and may trade in these securities either as principal or agent. On 29 September 2010, Petra Capital raised $13M for GEM via the issue of
18.9M shares at $0.69/share, for which Petra Capital received a fee. On 9 February 2011, Petra Capital raised $18.9M for GEM via the issue of 21M shares
at $0.90/share, for which Petra Capital received a fee.

Also contained in the report is this:
GEM’s shares have fallen for three reasons:
i. Concerns over the outcome of the settlement issues
in Singaporean Cherie Hearts acquisition;
ii. The press reports about Jenny Hutson (Chairman).
The allegations of impropriety in defending her other
company’s (Wellington Capital) interest in managing
the Premium Income Fund (PIF), which has led
some to question the corporate governance regime
at GEM;
iii. The slower than expected acquisition activity in the
Australian market.
Looking forward
· In our view, these issues are now close to being
resolved and the market is likely to move on as the
newsflow returns to acquisitions, rather than problems.
i. The court hearing in Singapore is next month and it
is our view that the judgement in Oct/Nov is likely to
see GEM take ownership of the disputed centres.
ii. The battle for PIF is likely to continue, but the
allegations against Jenny Hutson were dismissed in
court.::

GEM shares have been trading between 55 and 65 cents over the past 10 days. Pays to do your own research and not rely on 'Broker Reports' that stand to make some sort of a financial gain relating to the company they promote IMO. Seamisty


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## pro (16 August 2011)

*Updates on Cherie Hearts’ legal suit against G8 in Singapore..*

Pre-trial hearing, Monday, 8th August 2011

The Singapore High Court has once again ruled in favour of Cherie Hearts Group International (“CHGI”) in their ongoing suit against G8 Limited (“G8”).

G8 tried desperately to submit its affidavit at the 11th hour on Saturday, 6th August 2011, but all attempts were in vain. The High Court Judge dismissed and disregarded their last minute affidavit at the pre-trial hearing on Monday, 8th August 2011.

At the same time, the High Court Judge also dismissed..

G8’s application for the revenue from child care centre operations to be paid to them by CHGI.
the need for CHGI to transfer the ownership of the bank accounts of their subsidiaries over to G8.
Another pat on the back for CHGI! Well done 

Fresh rumours just out of the oven.. G8 has asked the Singapore High Court for an adjournment of the Main Trial scheduled for 5 to 16 September 2011. Looks like they’re beginning to feel the heat! They’re obviously not prepared are they? Not a good sign for them..

Wonder what trick they will come up with next?? Nonetheless justice will prevail!

Recent centre inspections

Recent centre inspections carried out by CHGI involving Cherie Hearts centres managed by G8 has revealed shocking findings. G8 has seriously flouted safety and hygiene standards and regulations as stipulated by MCYS (Singapore’s governing ministry for child care centres). Sharp objects such as scissors and pins were found well within children’s reach. First aid kits contained expired products. Food preparation and centre hygiene standards were seriously compromised. Fire escape routes were strewn with obstacles, not to mention fire escape doors with no keys to open them! Parents’ complaints have never been higher. Due to the severity of the above findings, these matters have been escalated to MCYS.

**Up until today, G8 refuses to factor in ‘Contingent Liabilities’ into all of its agreements.


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## pro (23 August 2011)

Pre-trial hearing, Thursday, 18th August 2011

*ANOTHER VICTORY FOR CHGI*

--G8’s Attempt to Adjourn the Main Trial--

As you would recall, there were recent rumours that G8 had asked for an adjournment of the Main Trial. It appears as if these rumours were true after all! The first reason being that Jenny Hutson was unavailable. Yes.. ‘The Jenny Hutson’ to appear on trial in Singapore! The second reason being that their ‘expert witness’ could not generate a meaningful report?! Well they should have jolly well thought of that before deciding to put a receivership on CHGI! This is a true indication that they had no basis for their unjust actions!

Unfortunately for G8, CHGI has emerged victorious yet again! The Singapore High Court has refused to grant G8 adjournment of the Main Trial as per their requests. 

But in kind, the High Court Judge has given them a 2 day extension. That’s not going to be of much help now is it G8?? 

Advice/Reality check for G8: 

You’re not playing on your own turf.. So you’re deprived of your home ground advantage, which you might have been able to master down under.. 
The Singapore Judicial System is very different, very stringent, very efficient and very fair.. You will realise this very shortly.. Doubt it will be in your favour though!
You can’t get lucky all the time.. In fact it appears as if your luck is already running out!
You can’t use the same old tricks over and over again.. You’ve obviously run out them.. Trust me, justice isn’t blind in Singapore!
In summary.. Suggest you just back off?!
Excellent stuff CHGI! I have no doubt you will be sending G8 packing to where they belong.. Down Under! 





pro said:


> *Updates on Cherie Hearts’ legal suit against G8 in Singapore..*
> 
> Pre-trial hearing, Monday, 8th August 2011
> 
> ...


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## seamisty (23 August 2011)

pro said:


> Pre-trial hearing, Thursday, 18th August 2011
> 
> *ANOTHER VICTORY FOR CHGI*
> 
> ...



Thanks for the update Pro. PIF unit holders were all shaking their heads asking why Jenny Hutson announces on the 18th august 2011 out of the blue that Wellington Capital will be conducting another travelling road show under the guise of 'Fund Briefing Meetings' to be held 6, 7 and 8 September 2011 in each of Sydney, Melbourne and the Gold Coast. Obviously it was to clash with the G8 trial in Singapore so MS HUtson would have an excuse not to attend!! Seamisty


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## pro (24 August 2011)

Not at all Seamisty.. My pleasure.. Strange *'coincidence'* wudn't you agree?? LOL! Like I said.. They've pretty much run out of tricks.. They're getting kinda predictable now don't you think??

*VICTORY AFTER VICTORY FOR CHGI*

More to.. Pre-trial hearing, Thursday, 18th August 2011

G8 also keeps using the discovery of documents etc as one of their many reasons for wanting to delay the trial and but hello?.....it has been months and they are still not ready or is it only now that they saw a need to discover documents??? They are obviously running out of tricks here........

Cherie Hearts' team of skillful lawyers resisted such deliberate delay tactics and once again won!!!! G8's application was successfully resisted!
The Singapore Courts have even ordered G8 to pay Cherie Hearts a sum of $1500.....
Bravo Cherie Hearts.......keep pressing on.
Great work......Proud of you guys


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## pro (30 August 2011)

*G8’S ALARM BELLS ARE ALREADY RINGING FOLKS!*

G8 shares plummet from *0.64 to 0.56 in a single day* yesterday?!!
And if you thought that was bad enough.. Surpriseee! It fell *further to 0.52 today*, recording a new 52 week low!!

Honestly folks.. These are extremely worrying signs *(for G8 of course)*.. 

Are investors panicking at the *sudden ‘resignation’ of CEO/Executive Director, Craig Chapman* (Their trustworthy Knight In Shining Armour) who has for more than a decade been amongst the ‘inner-circle’?? Strangely enough, all this is *going on just a week before the Main Trial in Singapore*, leading up to which Cherie Hearts has been the forerunner of course.. Its just a matter of days now folks.. Let the games begin! 

I have an inclination that 0.52 won’t stand as the record 52 week low for very long 

It is evident that there is alot more going on behind the scenes.. Skeletons in their closets yet to emerge?? That I'm sure! Do share your thoughts and/or insights.. 

Things are beginning to heat up! And from the looks of it G8 is gonna get fried real bad!


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## Plumber1 (8 September 2011)

pro said:


> *G8’S ALARM BELLS ARE ALREADY RINGING FOLKS!*
> Are investors panicking at the *sudden ‘resignation’ of CEO/Executive Director, Craig Chapman* (Their trustworthy Knight In Shining Armour) who has for more than a decade been amongst the ‘inner-circle’?? Strangely enough, all this is *going on just a week before the Main Trial in Singapore*,
> 
> It is evident that there is alot more going on behind the scenes.. Skeletons in their closets yet to emerge??




My guess is that Craig Chapman did not want to be seen as the CEO of a company involved in dirty games...especially in Singapore where the penalties are more in line with any crimes and misdemeanors than here in Australia.

Expect Craig Chapman to attempt to put all this sordid mess behind him by claiming that he had "left the company" by the time all the **** hits the fan.  
He will end up back in another of the Wellington Capital/PIF/G8 family of companies


----------



## seamisty (9 September 2011)

Plumber1 said:


> My guess is that Craig Chapman did not want to be seen as the CEO of a company involved in dirty games...especially in Singapore where the penalties are more in line with any crimes and misdemeanors than here in Australia.
> 
> Expect Craig Chapman to attempt to put all this sordid mess behind him by claiming that he had "left the company" by the time all the **** hits the fan.
> He will end up back in another of the Wellington Capital/PIF/G8 family of companies



It will be interesting to see if Chris Scott is the next 'retired' G8 director pending the outcome of the current Singapore Cherie Heart/G8 legal proceedings??? I await the outcome with interest. Seamisty


----------



## Plumber1 (11 September 2011)

seamisty said:


> It will be interesting to see if Chris Scott is the next 'retired' G8 director pending the outcome of the current Singapore Cherie Heart/G8 legal proceedings??? I await the outcome with interest. Seamisty




If you have done something fraudulent or something even slightly illegal, then Singapore is NOT the place to be.
Singapore takes those matters far more seriously than our completely incompetent ASIC and other Australian legal authorities.


----------



## Plumber1 (11 September 2011)

seamisty said:


> ... Wellington Capital will be conducting another travelling road show under the guise of 'Fund Briefing Meetings' to be held 6, 7 and 8 September 2011 in each of Sydney, Melbourne and the Gold Coast. Obviously it was to clash with the G8 trial in Singapore so MS HUtson would have an excuse not to attend!!




I would really like to see here go to Singapore and attend the case. 
Maybe, we would not see her back here for a couple of years


----------



## NOR (2 October 2011)

Plumber1 said:


> If you have done something fraudulent or something even slightly illegal, then Singapore is NOT the place to be.
> Singapore takes those matters far more seriously than our completely incompetent ASIC and other Australian legal authorities.




hy plumber //nor ..here i hope u were not a ...drip ...like us pif ...&took notice of likes of seamisty stay away from ..//jen..h../  any one thinking ///please   please have a big look @ wellington capital ...///..fourum   ....please for your sack...///better still ..................put it in the ...bank....god help us all    seamisty    ..chin up mate....


----------



## seamisty (3 October 2011)

Looks like senior management at G8 have been negligent in complying with the ASX Listing rules. G8 Education directors failed 'to notify ASX of
the notifiable interests of a Director where that individual ceases to be a Director by
lodgement of an Appendix 3Z, and that such lodgement must take place within 5
business days of that person ceasing to be a Director.
5. Notice of the resignation of Mr Craig Chapman as a Director of the Company was
given by way of lodgement of an Appendix 3Z on 29 September 2011. The Company
acknowledges that as Mr Chapman resigned on 2 September, the notice should have
been lodged with ASX on 5 September 2011.https://onlineinvesting.westpac.com...mpanyProfile/Announcements.aspx?stockCode=GEM'

Looks like a few major cracks appearing with G8, share price tanked to 46 cents today and that was before the please explain response.
I read in this report http://www.buysellsignals.com/10212432 that GEM Recommended stop loss is 46.25c.


----------



## seamisty (10 October 2011)

It looks like the Cherie Hearts/g8 education legal proceedings resume tomorrow in the Supreme Court of Singapore::

TUESDAY 11 OCT 10:00 AM
2:30 PM
S 211/2011 (SUM 4490/2011)
CHERIE HEARTS GROUP INTERNATIONAL PTE.
LTD. & ORS
(ALLEN & GLEDHILL LLP)
(ANG CHENG HOCK SC/ VINCENT LEOW/ JOEL
LIM)
V.
G8 EDUCATION LIMITED
(HARRY ELIAS PARTNERSHIP LLP)
(PHILIP FONG/ JOANA TEO/ VIKNESWARI)
NATURE: FOR SUSPENSION OF AN ORDER


----------



## marcom (17 October 2011)

IN THE SUPREME COURT OF SINGAPORE
WEDNESDAY TO FRIDAY 19 OCT TO 21 OCT
10:00 AM
PART HEARD
S 211/2011
CHERIE HEARTS GROUP INTERNATIONAL PTE.
LTD. & ORS
(ALLEN & GLEDHILL LLP)
(ANG CHENG HOCK SC/ VINCENT LEOW/
JACQUELINE LEE/ JOEL LIM)
V.
G8 EDUCATION LIMITED
(HARRY ELIAS PARTNERSHIP LLP)
(HARRY ELIAS SC/ PHILIP FONG/ JOANA TEO/
VIKNESWARI MUTHIAH/ LIONEL CHAN)
LAST HEARD FOR 13 DAYS FROM 07 - 28/09/2011
WOS FILED ON 28/03/2011
SET DOWN ON 01/09/2011
FIXED FOR 3 DAYS [19 - 21/10/2011]
NATURE: BREACH OF CONTRACT
[DTS TO BE USED] court 6B


----------



## seamisty (23 October 2011)

IN THE SUPREME COURT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SINGAPORE PRE-TRIAL CONFERENCE IN THE HIGH COURT BEFORE THE SENIOR ASSISTANT REGISTRAR TEH HWEE HWEE MONDAY, 24 OCT 2011, AT 9:00 AM, CHAMBER 4A

S/N CASE NO. PLAINTIFF/S DEFENDANT/S SUBJECT MATTER

5. S211/2011 CHERIE HEARTS GROUP INTERNATIONAL PTE. LTD. & ORS (ALLEN & GLEDHILL LLP) G8 EDUCATION LIMITED (HARRY ELIAS PARTNERSHIP LLP) CONTRACT - OTHERS
http://app.supremecourt.gov.sg/data/registrarHearing/08_24102011.pdf


----------



## seamisty (2 November 2011)

Cherie Hearts Group International Pte Ltd
Regional Head Office:
19 Cecil Street
#05-01 Cherie Hearts HQ, Singapore 049704
Tel: (65) 6 271 0080 Fax: (65) 6 271 0090
Website: www.cheriehearts.com.sg Email: care@cheriehearts.com.sg
Co. Reg No.: 200717229H
By Email & Post
2 November 2011
Dear Franchisees, Partners, Associates, Friends & Parents
Updates from the Trial between Cherie Hearts Group International and G8 Education
The trial between Cherie Hearts Group International Pte Ltd (“CHGI”) and G8 Education Limited (“G8”)
commenced at the Singapore Supreme Court on 7th September 2011 and ended on 21st October 2011. The
honourable Justice Judith Prakash is expected to give her verdict sometime in January 2012. In the
meantime, we would like for all of you to kindly to take note of the following:
1. Cherie Hearts Intellectual Property
Please note that CHGI and/or Cherie Hearts Child Development Pte Ltd (“CHCD”) are the sole owners of
all intellectual property belonging to Cherie Hearts and it’s branding. This includes all aspects of the
entire business, from the use of logos, awards, our Curriculum, the name ‘Cherie Hearts’, the
Operations Manual and its systems and processes, internal and external forms, documents, templates,
mascots etc. CHCD is also actually the  ® registered owner of all of the above with IPOS Singapore.
2. 16 Wholly Owned Centres
Dr Yap and/or Dr Singh remain the directors of the following 16 wholly owned centres:
• Cherie Hearts @ Limau Pte Ltd (LM)
• Cherie Hearts School House Pte Ltd (KM)
• Cherie Hearts Sunshine Kidz Pte Ltd (TS34)
• Cherie Hearts Discovery School Pte Ltd (TS42)
• Cherie Hearts Edukidz Pte Ltd (JT)
• Cherie Hearts Kids Cottage Pte Ltd (TK)
• Cherie Hearts Childcare (Limbang) Pte Ltd (LB)
• Cherie Hearts Preschool (TP) Pte Ltd (TP)
• Rhymesland Educare Pte Ltd (RL)
• Teeny Tiny Childcare & Development Centre Pte Ltd (TT)
DISCLAIMER: This document, including attachments, is the property of Cherie Hearts Group International Pte Ltd and/or its affiliates. It is meant for the addressee(s) only and contains
information which is confidential and/or legally privileged. Unauthorised communication and/or disclosure of any information contained in this document is an offence. Any unauthorised
distribution, copying, forwarding, disclosure or dissemination of this transmission and its contents or taking any action in reliance on its contents is strictly prohibited. If you have received
this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender and destroy the document.
Cherie Hearts Group International Pte Ltd
Regional Head Office:
19 Cecil Street
#05-01 Cherie Hearts HQ, Singapore 049704
Tel: (65) 6 271 0080 Fax: (65) 6 271 0090
Website: www.cheriehearts.com.sg Email: care@cheriehearts.com.sg
Co. Reg No.: 200717229H
• Loving Child Care Centre Pte Ltd (LCC)
• Loving Development Centre Pte Ltd (LDC)
• Gloryland Learning Centre Pte Ltd (GL@Cashew)
• Gloryland Learning Centre @ Toh Tuck Pte Ltd (GL@Toh Tuck)
• Our Juniors’ Schoolhouse (OJS-WL)
• Our Juniors’ Schoolhouse (OJS-PB)
3. The Children’s Repertoire (TCR) Enrichment Programmes
Thank you all for your continuous support to date. We remain ever grateful despite the fact that a third
party has been trying to influence you otherwise. We are constantly doing R&D and promise you more
quality and exciting enrichment programmes come 2012.
We remain ever confident, more so after being through the court proceedings, and look forward to a very
positive outcome. In view of this, we feel that it is essential that we proactively engage and update you of
the true state of affairs.
We would like to take this opportunity to once again, thank each and every one of your for your kind and
continued support. It is truly appreciated.
Yours faithfully
Cherie Hearts Group International Pte Ltd


----------



## seamisty (3 November 2011)

I see an announcement on the ASX states G8 education has appointed 2 new non executive directors. Ms Susan Forrester and Mathew Reynolds, a partner of HWL Ebsworth.
 Interesitingly Rachel Weeks of McClean Legal working from the same office as Wellington Capital was previously employed by Home Wilkinson Lowry where Mathew Reynolds was a partner which later merged with Ebsworths to become HWL Ebsworths Lawyers.
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...bSUkB_&sig=AHIEtbQTVlrK8WgOkqcJvGnzmRgTdSNV3w


----------



## marcom (9 January 2012)

IN THE SUPREME COURT OF SINGAPORE
LAW NOTICE FOR THE WEEK MONDAY 9 JANUARY TO FRIDAY 13 JANUARY 2012
BEFORE THE HONOURABLE JUSTICE JUDITH PRAKASH
DAY DATE TIME CASE VENUE
WEDNESDAY 11 JAN 10:00 AM
2:30 PM

S 211/2011(SUM4490/2011)  ½ DAY SPECIAL
CHERIE HEARTS GROUP INTERNATIONAL
PTE. LTD. & ORS
(ALLEN & GLEDHILL LLP)
(ANG CHENG HOCK SC/ VINCENT LEOW/
JACQUELINE LEE)
V.
G8 EDUCATION LIMITED
(HARRY ELIAS PARTNERSHIP LLP)
(PHILIP FONG/ JOANA TEO/ VIKNESWARI
MUTHIAH)
NATURE: FOR SUSPENSION OF OBLIGATION


----------



## dynami (23 January 2012)

Any updates people?


----------



## Duped (31 January 2012)

MFS/Octaviar, basically, borrowed a bucket load of money, overpaid for a truck load of assets and then promptly went bust.

So when deciding if the S8 team can replicate their success with G8 you'll need to consider the chances of another MFS coming along.  (Didn't Kerry Packer say something like: you only get one Bondy in your life.) Or write down the purported success of S8 somewhat.

Then again, companies that are really good at shooting themselves in the foot are great for shorting aren't they? A short trader could do worse than following Hutson around. Her track record for looking after share holders 'aint good. MFS/Octaviar, PIF (NSX code PIN) and now G8 have all comprehensively smashed shareholder value haven't they?


----------



## dynami (31 January 2012)

Duped said:


> MFS/Octaviar, basically, borrowed a bucket load of money, overpaid for a truck load of assets and then promptly went bust.
> 
> So when deciding if the S8 team can replicate their success with G8 you'll need to consider the chances of another MFS coming along.  (Didn't Kerry Packer say something like: you only get one Bondy in your life.) Or write down the purported success of S8 somewhat.
> 
> Then again, companies that are really good at shooting themselves in the foot are great for shorting aren't they? A short trader could do worse than following Hutson around. Her track record for looking after share holders 'aint good.




I hear you, but certainly after going through financials and with the recent announcement for profit guidance, IMHO these guys seem on track. Good business model.

Will be interesting times ahead


----------



## marcom (4 February 2012)

dynami said:


> I hear you, but certainly after going through financials and with the recent announcement for profit guidance, IMHO these guys seem on track. Good business model.
> 
> Will be interesting times ahead




Beware the IDES of MARCH!


----------



## Duped (6 February 2012)

dynami said:


> I hear you, but certainly after going through financials and with the recent announcement for profit guidance, IMHO these guys seem on track. Good business model.
> 
> Will be interesting times ahead




Hasn't the business model now been smashed by FWA's decision last week? 

Hutson's WC's reasons for PIF's poor performance is always along the lines of: tough trading conditions.  Whatever that's supposed to mean.   

Watch out for the same sort of excuses from GEM stemming from the FWA decision.


----------



## dynami (6 February 2012)

Duped said:


> Hasn't the business model now been smashed by FWA's decision last week?
> 
> Hutson's WC's reasons for PIF's poor performance is always along the lines of: tough trading conditions.  Whatever that's supposed to mean.
> 
> Watch out for the same sort of excuses from GEM stemming from the FWA decision.




Thanks Duped
It's certainly going to have an impact on profit. Are the increases spread over 9 years? Still not a victory, the company will have to run a tight ship. I'll definitely be watching my position closely.

Marcom, you keep posting the same useless posts in every forum regarding this stock?? I've been doing as much research as possible regarding my investment, but keep coming across your posts, which do not indicate anything other than you running down the company...I appreciate responses similar to Duped's, but yours are continually weird and have little value...Sorry mate but it's annoying.


----------



## heart2heart (11 April 2012)

It seems that G8 won the court case in Singapore.  Will Seamisty and her followers now apologise for the defamatory nonsense they posted on this site some time ago??  If not, why not?


----------



## Out Too Soon (8 October 2012)

Chart looks like a winner at the moment, no brainer really although as always it would have been nice to see it earlier.   

 ( To reword heart2hearts post- I think she/he was trying to say "winners are grinners" : )


----------



## Out Too Soon (21 November 2012)

sp just dropped  (with asx generally) & two directors have purchased some more shares so I suppose that's a good sign (even though we never like to see sp down it's what us optimists call a "buying opportunity"  )


----------



## Out Too Soon (22 July 2013)

http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=01426527
Nice rise today after ann, wish I was a long term investor though, if I'd been holding since last November grin would be ear to ear


----------



## rbgmauq (23 July 2013)

Technically, GEM has been showing support 2.356 and resistance in the 2.800 price range. It is rated a buy at au.stoxline website with the 3.270 target price in six months.


----------



## Out Too Soon (27 September 2013)

Trading halt with purchase of 29 more centres.   
http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=01447737
http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=01447774
http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=01447775


----------



## skc (1 October 2013)

GEM has had a pretty phenomenal run in the last 18 months.

They have just done a placement to buy 29 centres for $42.6m, with the purchase price representing 4x EBIT (~$10.65m).

On the other hand, GEM's own EBIT was only ~$17m at the half year. So assuming a full year EBIT ~$40m, GEM itself trades at ~24x EV/EBIT.

It boggles my mind that the market is somehow willing to pay 24x for something that GEM itself just bought for 4x.

I have the same question re: GXL - the vet clinic consolidater.

But I don't have any answers.


----------



## Knobby22 (1 October 2013)

Yes, you see this a lot with these sort of companies and also building engineers providers e.g. Cardno.

The advantage GEM has got is that it can boost its bottom line by making takeovers but if profits start dropping then the market will rerate savagely. it also doesn't have to win contracts.

I'm along for the ride.


----------



## piggybank (22 January 2014)

Hi,

As at 19 November 2013, GEM has 202 centres owned in Australia, 18 centres owned in Singapore and 48 franchised centres in Singapore. Currently, there are additional 23 centres contracted but not yet settled in Australia.

*Brands:* Currently, GEM has 10 brands in Australia. Its brands include Early Learning Services, World of Learning, Community Kids, Casa Bambini, Holiday Club, Kindy Patch, Headstar, KinderHaven, Little Einsteins, and Pacific Childcare.

For more details - click on the link provided:- http://markets.theaustralian.com.au/Equities/Company/Summary.aspx?SecId=GEM

Yesterdays action saw it breakout of a triangle - to the upside on increased volume.




​


----------



## piggybank (10 February 2014)

*Acquisition Of 63 Premium Childcare & Education Centres*

http://stocknessmonster.com/news-item?S=GEM&E=ASX&N=781424

Closed today @ $3.50 up 6.38% on the day...


----------



## Muschu (10 February 2014)

piggybank said:


> *Acquisition Of 63 Premium Childcare & Education Centres*
> 
> http://stocknessmonster.com/news-item?S=GEM&E=ASX&N=781424
> 
> Closed today @ $3.50 up 6.38% on the day...




Yes, seems to be a very well managed company.  Pleased to declare I have a small hold.  (Wish I could say the same for some others)...


----------



## pavilion103 (17 February 2014)

This is another one that I like.
Nice consolidation after the gap up.
Didn't get a chance to post a chart last night.

3.72 entry
3.49 stop

Not sure how much upside potential but a nice little setup.


----------



## pavilion103 (17 February 2014)

Forgot to add - activated today with a break above the consolidation this afternoon.


----------



## pavilion103 (18 February 2014)

Gapped up on open.
$3.94 at the moment.
I love these micro setups


----------



## McCoy Pauley (18 February 2014)

Go cats!


----------



## pavilion103 (18 February 2014)

McCoy Pauley said:


> Go cats!




Haha that was random!
Reference to my previous avatar?


----------



## McCoy Pauley (19 February 2014)

pavilion103 said:


> Haha that was random!
> Reference to my previous avatar?




Yep.

Obligatory on-topic comment - I haven't done any research into G8 Education.  I find it difficult to research for a company that's constantly buying out smaller competitors and integrating them into their business model.  I suspect I might have missed the boat on this one.


----------



## pavilion103 (19 February 2014)

McCoy Pauley said:


> Yep.  Obligatory on-topic comment - I haven't done any research into G8 Education.  I find it difficult to research for a company that's constantly buying out smaller competitors and integrating them into their business model.  I suspect I might have missed the boat on this one.




I'm all technical mate. I'm completely clueless on the research side of things! A strong couple of days.

Back to the important stuff.....
I hope the Cats youngsters take off like GEM has the last couple of days!


----------



## McCoy Pauley (19 February 2014)

pavilion103 said:


> I'm all technical mate. I'm completely clueless on the research side of things! A strong couple of days.
> 
> Back to the important stuff.....
> I hope the Cats youngsters take off like GEM has the last couple of days!




A Cats supporter in the middle of RAdalaide.  Would have been fun in 2007. 

I suppose I should get around to updating my avatar.


----------



## Buckfont (19 February 2014)

McCoy Pauley said:


> A Cats supporter in the middle of RAdalaide.  Would have been fun in 2007.
> 
> I suppose I should get around to updating my avatar.




Bout time. Go Swannies.


----------



## pavilion103 (20 February 2014)

Anyone else following this. It's looking strong. 
4.15
A solid week.


----------



## ROE (20 February 2014)

I don't understand this business, it constantly raise equity and debt to buy child care to grow earning Return on capital and equity is fairly ordinary and below par compared to other business.
And plenty of operators more than happy to sell it them

Sound like ABC learning model not long ago....this one seem to do a reverse of ABC learning it raises equity instead of debt but I notice it start to take on debt 

When I don't understand something I don't touch happy to miss out any gain like hundred of other business I don't invest in.

Just out of interest can this stock be short? any broker lend this stock out?


----------



## pavilion103 (20 February 2014)

ROE said:


> I don't understand this business, it constantly raise equity and debt to buy child care to grow earning Return on capital and equity is fairly ordinary and below par compared to other business.
> And plenty of operators more than happy to sell it them
> 
> Sound like ABC learning model not long ago....this one seem to do a reverse of ABC learning it raises equity instead of debt but I notice it start to take on debt
> ...





Maybe IB?
I'm not sure!

I can't get my head around that stuff!
All I know is that the chart looked good for this one. 
When it looks bad I'll exit.


----------



## McCoy Pauley (24 February 2014)

I admit that I haven't done much research into GEM, but based on what I've read and heard about their business model, there will come a point when their current strategy doesn't work as well.  Already I believe that one listed competitor (Affinity) offers single centre owners 4.1x EBITDA, compared to GEM's 4x EBITDA.  That has the capacity to change GEM's business plan if centre owners believe that they can leverage GEM against Affinity when selling out.

I try to hold for the long-term, so I'm reluctant to buy into GEM at this stage because I'm not clear what GEM's long-term strategy is to maintain growth.


----------



## pavilion103 (24 February 2014)

Sounds wise.
We are coming from different approaches.
I try to identify momentum and get on.
As soon as it stops get off.
If it goes up 15-20% in a few weeks then it's a good profit.


----------



## craft (24 February 2014)

McCoy Pauley said:


> I admit that I haven't done much research into GEM, but based on what I've read and heard about their business model, there will come a point when their current strategy doesn't work as well.  Already I believe that one listed competitor (Affinity) offers single centre owners 4.1x EBITDA, compared to GEM's 4x EBITDA.  That has the capacity to change GEM's business plan if centre owners believe that they can leverage GEM against Affinity when selling out.
> 
> I try to hold for the long-term, so I'm reluctant to buy into GEM at this stage because I'm not clear what GEM's long-term strategy is to maintain growth.




So they look to buy businesses at 4 times EBITDA sounds reasonable.

Those same underlying businesses then sell on the market at 24 times EBITDA when people buy GEM shares.

The  disparity allows earnings accretion every time they buy another business.

But what happens when people paying 24 times EBITDA based on technical or illusionary growth stop buying?

If the price drops (for any reason) there goes your chart traders and the disparity between the market and the underlying business value starts to reduce which causes the earnings growth accretion to reduce and snowball in the reverse of what it is happening now, until no more purchased growth is feasible.  There go all the earnings momentum players.

Who’s left?

Those that will pay a business like multiple for the underlying business 4-6 EBITDA (if the balance sheet isn’t too stuffed by then) 

How long can it last? Don’t know – but play it the same as you would bet on a fly crawling up the wall – not as an investment.

History never repeats (bull****) Markets are efficient (yer right!)


----------



## skc (24 February 2014)

craft said:


> So they look to buy businesses at 4 times EBITDA sounds reasonable.
> 
> Those same underlying businesses then sell on the market at 24 times EBITDA when people buy GEM shares.
> 
> ...




It's one of a number of "greater fool" shares on the market... 

However, I think from now on I will pay more attention to these companies and invest/trade them. Once on the way up and again on the way down. I've always liked the Keynesian beauty contest analogy to the share market.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_beauty_contest. And if one is able to apply this analogy to comapnies like GEM... it'd be pretty lucrative. 

I wonder how many of those currently holding are knowingly playing the game, or are playing without knowing. This will probably determine the speed of the fall.


----------



## McLovin (24 February 2014)

skc said:


> It's one of a number of "greater fool" shares on the market...




GXL is the other one. I can't wait to see that pinata pop!



			
				skc said:
			
		

> I wonder how many of those currently holding are knowingly playing the game, or are playing without knowing. This will probably determine the speed of the fall.




That's what I'd like to know too. There is no ryhme or reason why a company can magically increase in value by a factor of 6-7 for no other reason than it is now owned by a public company.


----------



## skc (24 February 2014)

McLovin said:


> That's what I'd like to know too. There is no ryhme or reason why a company can magically increase in value by a factor of 6-7 for no other reason than it is now owned by a public company.




All private businesses to some extent sells much cheaper than listed bsuinesses, and for good reasons. Reporting requirements, access to capital, liquidity etc are the benefits of being on an exchange. 

But I think the biggest uplift in value is through the creation of continuing value. A listed company will have better professional management and succession planning than a small private outfit. How many small businesses have you seen that have no chance of existence beyond the current owner operator?

If the life of the private business is finite... i.e. until the end of involvement of the owner operator (through retirement or running out of steam/passion), then there is significant value in making that business "perpetual". Exactly what that magical factor should be is anyone's guess. But based on how the market is pricing GXL and GEM... it's a pretty large number!

I guess if you are an owner operator who may be unsure about continuing a a business beyond 5 years, you'd pretty happily sell it for 4x EBITDA.


----------



## McLovin (24 February 2014)

skc said:


> All private businesses to some extent sells much cheaper than listed bsuinesses, and for good reasons. Reporting requirements, access to capital, liquidity etc are the benefits of being on an exchange.
> 
> But I think the biggest uplift in value is through the creation of continuing value. A listed company will have better professional management and succession planning than a small private outfit. How many small businesses have you seen that have no chance of existence beyond the current owner operator?
> 
> ...




Of course I understand that private businesses are cheaper, but there can't be such a huge variation in valuation. It just doesn't make sense to me. I could understand it going from say 4x EBITDA to 8-10x but not to 28x. I haven't spent much time looking at GEM, but in the case of GXL, they are buying very low growth assets and the "synergies" of corporatising the individual practises seems marginal at best.

I was actually having an interesting discussion about how to value non-listed companies with my accountant a couple of weeks ago.


----------



## craft (24 February 2014)

skc said:


> I wonder how many of those currently holding are knowingly playing the game, or are playing without knowing. This will probably determine the speed of the fall.




I suspect speed in these matters as with any type of overpricing/bubble/Ponzi etc deflating has to do with weather there is a change of understanding en-mass. If there is you can get caught - if the perceptions however change more slowly there should be plenty of time to slip out before the cops arrive.


----------



## skc (24 February 2014)

McLovin said:


> Of course I understand that private businesses are cheaper, but there can't be such a huge variation in valuation. It just doesn't make sense to me. I could understand it going from say 4x EBITDA to 8-10x but not to 28x. I haven't spent much time looking at GEM, but in the case of GXL, they are buying very low growth assets and the "synergies" of corporatising the individual practises seems marginal at best.
> 
> I was actually having an interesting discussion about how to value non-listed companies with my accountant a couple of weeks ago.




Of course you do!  It wasn't a direct post to teach you anything... it was more the fact that I only just realise the addition of perpetuality to the valuation and had to write down my own thoughts.



craft said:


> I suspect speed in these matters as with any type of overpricing/bubble/Ponzi etc deflating has to do with weather there is a change of understanding en-mass. If there is you can get caught - if the perceptions however change more slowly there should be plenty of time to slip out before the cops arrive.




I think these things deflat slowly. I don't doubt that any initial pop will be loud and large, but it'd probably still be quite small relative to the rise as a whole... I guess the driver is the abundance of fools and in particular those who thought they'd buy the dip and win every time. Just a general impression and I will post it up if I can remember an example or two.


----------



## herzy (25 February 2014)

So... anyone worked out how to short?


----------



## pavilion103 (25 February 2014)

Not sure dude. Did you try IB?


----------



## pavilion103 (27 February 2014)

Looking a bit weak today


----------



## skc (27 February 2014)

McLovin said:


> Of course I understand that private businesses are cheaper, but there can't be such a huge variation in valuation. It just doesn't make sense to me. I could understand it going from say 4x EBITDA to 8-10x but not to 28x. I haven't spent much time looking at GEM, but in the case of GXL, they are buying very low growth assets and the "synergies" of corporatising the individual practises seems marginal at best.




ONT is the another one that plays the same game...


----------



## seamisty (14 March 2014)

The shaky business of childcare and past lessons

DateMarch 13, 2014 

Lisa Bryant


The Australian government cleaned up and paid the damage bill for one childcare mess after that spectacular failure of publicly listed provider, ABC Learning.

. The G8 share price appears to have already fully anticipated the immediate growth prospects for the company. By failing to hose down investor expectations as the share price shot up, the company is faced with having to support what some would consider a manifestly overpriced stock. It can only do this by either cutting costs or growing.

Cutting costs in childcare generally means reducing staff costs and G8 is currently close to the bone, spending just 60 per cent of its revenue on employee expenses.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/the-s...ast-lessons-20140312-34mfs.html#ixzz2vqsf6GXm


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## ROE (14 March 2014)

Post info here if you work out a way to short it ...
The number doesn't stack up for me, the long this goes the higher your chance of making money shorting....

History will rhyme


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## VSntchr (14 March 2014)

ROE said:


> Post info here if you work out a way to short it ...
> The number doesn't stack up for me, the long this goes the higher your chance of making money shorting....
> 
> History will rhyme




Pretty sure its shortable with IGmarkets DMA CFD's.

Personally I'd be worried to short it, the market could remain irrational with this pricing for a while yet, plus with GEM only having such a small share of the child care centre market - there is plenty more acquisitive opportunity.

With that said, I am in agreement with the reasoning behind the short


----------



## ROE (14 March 2014)

Sterling IPO got pulled not enough demand ...here we go...
http://www.afr.com/p/business/companies/sterling_early_education_ipo_put_Zoc9lfwq1iUHdcIOVerDHN


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## pavilion103 (18 March 2014)

Continues up


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## goccipgp (18 March 2014)

If we can pass 4.43 then 5.17 is easy. Positive technical buying signal at au stoxline website.


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## skyQuake (19 March 2014)

Rated new BUY at Deutsche bank after mkt close today


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## Porper (19 March 2014)

goccipgp said:


> If we can pass 4.43 then 5.17 is easy .




Why $5.17? My short term target is $4.70 based on the Wave structures. Just watching bearish divergence presently although it hasn't triggered. Longer term still plenty of blue sky ahead.

I hold.


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## peaceofmind (21 March 2014)

Porper said:


> Why $5.17? My short term target is $4.70 based on the Wave structures. Just watching bearish divergence presently although it hasn't triggered. Longer term still plenty of blue sky ahead.
> 
> I hold.




up 57% year to date 14 and over double since 2013.

agree with all comments. this is a massive bubble at the moment. no company can grow earnings at that rate the share price is going at. Whatever growth in GEM is due to acquisitions of low 4x EBIT multiple which when transferred to a p/e of over 20x of GEM, appears to be 'growth' from a low base. But is it really? such growth is a facade. The centres are sold at a low EBIT for a reason. Also its hard to integrate so many acquisitions in the long term.

Doesn't appear to be much resistance. so will keep ballooning up till the eventual crash. Poseidon everyone.


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## pavilion103 (21 March 2014)

This is an example of why I'm a technical trader.

See momentum and get on it.
When momentum stops get off it before a crash.


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## ROE (21 March 2014)

They now put broker forecast as an ASX announcement ..Giddy up 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxqcmfYb0OI

Just watch closely when the directors start off loading shares....

MFS/Octaviar S8 all over again in the new bull market?
History was written less than a decade ago and people already forgotten.

Still a small fish so it may keep going a bit longer yet, market can be irrational longer than you stay solvent 

I will watch from the side line with intrigue


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## galumay (21 March 2014)

pavilion103 said:


> This is an example of why I'm a technical trader.




Its an example of why I am a fundamental investor, and why I dont hold GEM!

Sometimes different forms of analysis lead to the same conclusion.


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## Muschu (21 March 2014)

Interesting comments and contrasting views.

Whatever our base for investing there is no doubt GEM has been spectacular.  

No idea whether this will last but wish I'd bought more.


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## ROE (21 March 2014)

galumay said:


> Its an example of why I am a fundamental investor, and why I dont hold GEM!
> 
> Sometimes different forms of analysis lead to the same conclusion.




Don't go there else it will turn into another TA vs FA thread ..The eternal war... 
Whatever make people money is best course of action


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## pavilion103 (22 March 2014)

Not intending to start an argument.
I just like it simple. I would suck with fundamentals. Others in here are probably great.


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## galumay (22 March 2014)

pavilion103 said:


> Not intending to start an argument.




Nor I, Pav. I was genuinly noting that very different approaches sometimes come to the same conclusions. 

The subtext I guess is, be very careful if 2 entirely different approaches come to the same conclusion about a potential negative impact on share price!


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## pavilion103 (24 March 2014)

Trading halt.

Maybe got out of this one too soon.

I sold out of fear.


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## Porper (24 March 2014)

pavilion103 said:


> Trading halt.
> 
> Maybe got out of this one too soon.
> 
> I sold out of fear.




Maybe not as well Pav. Even if it's good news it could head lower. There must be a lot of good news built in. Either way my target hit so am out and happy to be.


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## VSntchr (24 March 2014)

Traditionally they have bought centres at 4xEBIT. Now this acquisition is 5.7xEBIT...

I hope the perhaps irrational pricing of their stock by the market is not beginning to influence the price they pay for centres to ensure that the rapid growth and SP appreciation, that the market now expects, continues.



ABC learning's downfall was paying too much for centres and using too much debt.
*I could be wrong* but this acquisition could be the start of the former occuring for GEM.


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## skc (24 March 2014)

VSntchr said:


> Traditionally they have bought centres at 4xEBIT. Now this acquisition is 5.7xEBIT...
> 
> I hope the perhaps irrational pricing of their stock by the market is not beginning to influence the price they pay for centres to ensure that the rapid growth and SP appreciation, that the market now expects, continues.
> 
> ...




Interesting The GEM announcement is that they are paying $228m on EBIT $39.4m for 91 premium centres (whatever premium means...). While the Sterling IPO was pitched at a market cap of ~$237 to $260m for 77 centres. 

So they managed to buy more than the IPO's offer at a lower price... It's a big slap in the face for Sterling's management/seller. Basically the market is saying "We won't buy you, but we are happy to buy into GEM's placement who buys you". So draw your own conclusion about the relative perception of GEM and Sterling's management.

You can argue that GEM paid more for Sterling than they have in the past, but this is a huge acquisition. All the information was out there in the public domain (due to the IPO) and it's a large number of centres. There's perhaps more economies of scale to be extracted and overheads to be removed. So I would say a higher price paid is not unjustified.

The market prices GEM's EBIT at ~28x. So the acquisition of ~$40m in EBIT can increase market cap by $800-1B . Takeout the effect of increased shares on issue from the placement ($100m @ $4.60 according to AFR), this share can trade well north of $5 if current pricing multiple prevails.


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## ROE (24 March 2014)

When it has the market cap north of 4bn and ASX CFDs let them in I will short it


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## pavilion103 (24 March 2014)

I guess the good thing about an over inflated company is that prior to price collapsing, evidence of the collapse appears on the chart. It doesn't just halve in one day. So for those observing, signs will appear if this is the case with GEM.


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## peaceofmind (24 March 2014)

now paying 5.8x EBIT. starting to get desperate i feel.

currently in a bubble. no way is a pe of 20x justified for child care stock without any organic growth.

traditionally, a p/e of 10x was correct pre-GFC for a mid cap or small cap company without any organic growth(i.e. steady state)

What happened to the pre-GFC valuation measures? Too much liquidity, money printing and low interest rates have encouraged massive risk taking boosting the acceptable multiple over 100%. We now have a host of small and mid cap companies with p/es well above 20x, some even 30x like SEK, some don't even have a p/e like XRO $5bn mkt cap on sales of only $50-100m!

if rates go up next year high multiple stocks will go down.

also its got massive long term risks from government subsidy cuts.


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## Huskar (25 March 2014)

VSntchr said:


> this acquisition could be the start of the former occuring for GEM.




When you see a bubble beginning to form, rush to it not away: reflexivity.


----------



## Judd (26 March 2014)

I don't hold but it is really, really nice of management to make a $100m placement in two lots to the sophisticated and institutional lot.

Any chance for the smaller fry or are they just to be diluted? :arsch:


----------



## Judd (26 March 2014)

Judd said:


> .......Any chance for the smaller fry or are they just to be diluted? :arsch:




Oh great.  A Share Purchase Plan.  So the instos get as many as they applied for and the little fella is limited to 3,260 shares.


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## VSntchr (26 March 2014)

skc said:


> The market prices GEM's EBIT at ~28x. So the acquisition of ~$40m in EBIT can increase market cap by $800-1B . Takeout the effect of increased shares on issue from the placement ($100m @ $4.60 according to AFR), this share can trade well north of $5 if current pricing multiple prevails.




SKC, just wondering how you calculated the 28x multiple?

The additional centres are looking at contributing ~$35m (FY15 is expected to be $39m based on purchase price), which would put GEM EBIT on at least ~$120m for FY14.
Shares are trading at $4.95 and I am guestimating that there will be about another 35m shares on issue after this latest CR? Which would take the total to 335m shares on issue..providing a market cap of $1658m.

With these figures the forward estimate I calculated (I used forward as earnings seem pretty visible) is ~14x.


----------



## skc (26 March 2014)

VSntchr said:


> SKC, just wondering how you calculated the 28x multiple?
> 
> The additional centres are looking at contributing ~$35m (FY15 is expected to be $39m based on purchase price), which would put GEM EBIT on at least ~$120m for FY14.
> Shares are trading at $4.95 and I am guestimating that there will be about another 35m shares on issue after this latest CR? Which would take the total to 335m shares on issue..providing a market cap of $1658m.
> ...




I just took the last reported FY EBIT at $48.5m, and the market cap before the capital raising at ~$1.4B. With high growth expected in EBIT the use of historical and forward EBIT will make a huge difference. The forward EBIT before the latest deal was probably around $75-80m, so a multiple of 17.5x or there about.


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## McLovin (30 March 2014)

This is a little strange...



> It can be revealed that Scott, who was appointed to his position in 2010, was once the owner and director of a private company, Geosine, according to documents lodged with the Australian Securities and Investments Commission. Geosine was under Scott’s control until January 2013, at which point the shares in the company were transferred to a woman called Kimberley Yin.
> 
> Less than two months later in March 2013, Geosine was announced as a new substantial holder in G8 with just over 20 million shares that gave it control of 7.4 per cent of the company.
> 
> ...




Reading the entire article, it seems like these guys just try their hand at whatever.

http://www.afr.com/p/business/companies/chris_scott_and_his_secret_network_8GKvKCCsm58NyOMz6EuPLK

I don't trust any of these roll up business models. Although the growth is cheap, it's not organic, it's purchased and like everything else once the low hanging fruit is bought multiples paid will have to start rising. Then the fat lady will start wailing.


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## pavilion103 (31 March 2014)

If I was still holding my $3.72 entry I'd contemplate pyramiding at $5.10.


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## Lone Wolf (31 March 2014)

pavilion103 said:


> If I was still holding my $3.72 entry I'd contemplate pyramiding at $5.10.




This is a common idea that I don’t really understand. Why are people happy to risk open profit but not realized profit?

If you were still in the trade you’d consider risking the open profit by pyramiding here. But since you’ve already closed the trade you no longer consider it worth the risk?

In my view the risk/reward and probability of the trade have nothing to do with what you’ve made previously. So why does it affect your decision about it being a decent setup? Shouldn’t each pyramid trade be able to stand alone as a setup worth taking?

Not having a go, your idea is shared by other successful traders. Just interested in your view.

To make this slightly on topic. GEM came up in my scans ages ago and I passed.


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## pavilion103 (31 March 2014)

Lone Wolf said:


> This is a common idea that I dont really understand. Why are people happy to risk open profit but not realized profit?  If you were still in the trade youd consider risking the open profit by pyramiding here. But since youve already closed the trade you no longer consider it worth the risk?  In my view the risk/reward and probability of the trade have nothing to do with what youve made previously. So why does it affect your decision about it being a decent setup? Shouldnt each pyramid trade be able to stand alone as a setup worth taking?  Not having a go, your idea is shared by other successful traders. Just interested in your view.  To make this slightly on topic. GEM came up in my scans ages ago and I passed.




This is a very good post.
I don't disagree.

If I was going to add it would be a smaller position. 

But why wouldn't I take the trade anyway with a smaller position? I don't know. Probably something for me to consider more deeply.


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## pavilion103 (31 March 2014)

In fact I probably will give this a look at end of day.

On a separate note even if I like the setup the opportunity cost of capital will need consideration. I'd assume for this one I'd have a reasonably right stop which would require me to take a larger position than usual (fixed fractional).


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## seamisty (10 April 2014)

GEM totally tanked today by 3% Management issues??

http://prelive.goldcoast.com.au/article/2010/12/15/276795_gold-coast-business.html

http://www.smh.com.au/business/rentacrowd-wellington-capital-boss-under-fire-20110630-1gt4k.html

http://www.essentialbaby.com.au/bus...nce-for-childcare-newbies-20140307-34ctw.html


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## seamisty (30 April 2014)

Dissention in the G8 camp???

10:40am: Owning shares in the best-performing stock among the top 200 companies in the local bourse was not reward enough for almost one in five G8 Education investors, who voted against the salaries paid to the childcare operator’s top executives in 2013.

The executive director of proxy advisory ISS Ulysses Chioatto said the group advised its clients to vote against the remuneration report because of loans provided to executives.

“Our concern is that they have an unusual loan structure being used to pay executives on top of their fixed salary,” he said. “The loans have no performance measures.”
http://www.smh.com.au/business/mark...-ma-targets-20140430-37gk9.html#ixzz30LyFrh57


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## seamisty (15 May 2014)

McLovin said:


> This is a little strange...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



McLovin would you by any chance have a copy of this full article as I am not a subscriber to the FR. I am interested as I have just read the latest GEM ASX announcement relating to Geosine. Please post it in my notifications folder. Thanks


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## Muschu (9 January 2015)

I've held this stock for some time with an average purchase price of under $3..  During that time GEM has gone as high as $5.63 and today as low as $3.54, with a rebound as I type.

Is there concern about debt levels or expansion that is too rapid?  Or am I missing something else entirely?

Comments would be appreciated... Wondering whether it's time to cut and run...

Many thanks for any observations.


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## Triathlete (9 January 2015)

Muschu said:


> I've held this stock for some time with an average purchase price of under $3..  During that time GEM has gone as high as $5.63 and today as low as $3.54, with a rebound as I type.
> 
> Is there concern about debt levels or expansion that is too rapid?  Or am I missing something else entirely?
> 
> ...





I have attached a fundamental view from Lincoln indicators Stock doctor as their summary as well as my own technical view and weekly chart...might help your decision. They have a current valuation of $5.64 but the chart seem to show it will move lower in the short term at least.

GEM is both a Star Income Stock and Borderline Star Growth Stock in a Satisfactory position of Financial Health. The company could suit both growth and value focused investors that seek capital appreciation, and income focused investors willing to take on a little more risk in order to maximise dividend yield. GEM has grown its market capitalisation in recent years, and has established a relatively high level of liquidity that would suit most investors. At current prices, GEM's dividend is attractive, and offers investors a quarterly income stream. The company has displayed enviable growth rates in recent years, but the balance sheet has also been expanding at a formidable rate, and we would like to see both profits and cash flow generation catch up in coming periods. We believe the investment theme behind GEM’s model is very strong, and expect it to meet Star Growth Stock criteria in the coming 12 months.


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## systematic (9 January 2015)

I disagree with Lincoln indicators.

I have it ranked poorly overall.  A poor value stock with nothing interesting happening, momentum wise.


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## Triathlete (9 January 2015)

systematic said:


> I disagree with Lincoln indicators.
> 
> I have it ranked poorly overall.  A poor value stock with nothing interesting happening, momentum wise.




We all have our own views .

That's why I put the chart up as well. I myself trade on what the technical's are telling me and at present it is in a downtrend.


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## Muschu (9 January 2015)

Thanks for the comments - which I do appreciate.  

I thought it interesting on an UP day that GEM dropped so low, but then rebounded to be up over yesterday to be up over 2.5% as well as finishing near the days highs.

My holding is not that large and I'll keep observing.

Again, thank you.


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## Muschu (17 March 2015)

Muschu said:


> Thanks for the comments - which I do appreciate.
> 
> I thought it interesting on an UP day that GEM dropped so low, but then rebounded to be up over yesterday to be up over 2.5% as well as finishing near the days highs.
> 
> ...




Another poor day for GEM on a good day for the majority of the market... Beyond my understanding - as many things are.


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## SuperGlue (17 March 2015)

Muschu said:


> Another poor day for GEM on a good day for the majority of the market... Beyond my understanding - as many things are.






Recent article in the newspaper again and today's announcement of director decided to step down.

Wonder whether this two are related?

http://www.smh.com.au/business/inte...he-market8217s-best-sell-20150312-1427lj.html


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## Muschu (18 March 2015)

SuperGlue said:


> Recent article in the newspaper again and today's announcement of director decided to step down.
> 
> Wonder whether this two are related?
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/business/inte...he-market8217s-best-sell-20150312-1427lj.html




Thanks but OUCH... That  article would hardly inspire confidence...


----------



## tinhat (18 March 2015)

SuperGlue said:


> Recent article in the newspaper again and today's announcement of director decided to step down.
> 
> Wonder whether this two are related?
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/business/inte...he-market8217s-best-sell-20150312-1427lj.html






Muschu said:


> Another poor day for GEM on a good day for the majority of the market... Beyond my understanding - as many things are.






systematic said:


> I disagree with Lincoln indicators.
> 
> I have it ranked poorly overall.  A poor value stock with nothing interesting happening, momentum wise.




Lincoln dropped GEM as a star stock on 17 Feb 2015. They are now carrying too much debt. I've never owned GEM. If I did own it I would be selling. Even at today's prices Lincoln clients who bought when Lincoln first recommended the stock would be laughing.

I tipped GEM in the 2015 stock tipping comp because its a way for me to back a stock that I would not actually buy. One of the reasons i would not buy it is because I don't like the chairperson of the company. The reason why I tipped it is because in a frothy property market I thought it might have the legs to keep on going in the current market. Also, because of the expected boost to childcare to come from the anticipated new federal family package.

A strategy of growth by acquisition is going to eventually exhaust itself. Interest rate risk and debt servicing are risks that have grown due to the amount of debt this company is now carrying. If we are near the bottom of the interest rate cycle then the risks increase. They will need to demonstrate strong earnings growth going forward to pay down the debt.

The price is currently sitting around the 38% fibonacci retrace level of the rise since the GFC bottom.


----------



## CalpeInvestor (27 March 2015)

*GEM: G8 EDUCATION LIMITED*

About time something positive being said about GEM: _GEM:ASX : G8 EDUCATION LIMITED is being supported by Bank of America Merrill Lynch analysts who have come out in support for G8 Education, saying an underwritten dividend reinvestment plan and strong free cash flow would be enough to see off fears about an equity raising. 
G8 shares have been heavily sold over the past six weeks on fears about the roll-up's balance sheet and its ability to fund future acquisitions. 
"However after recent discussions with management, we do not believe an equity raising is imminent," BAML analysts told clients this morning.
"GEM's acquisition pipeline is for a lesser 80-100 centres pa (vs more than 200 last year), which allows for a large part of the company's acquisition growth to be internally funded." 
BAML said internal funding sources included the $50 million to $60 million fully underwritten DRP, which could fund the acquisition of about 50 centres, $120 million forecast free cash flow and expected $150 million cash balance come the end of 2015. 
The analysts also backed G8 to continue its strong growth and double its market share over the next three to five years. 
"Despite GEM still being a 'roll up' play, it is no longer being priced that way having de-rated to 12.9x FY15e earnings (a 20% discount to market)," the analysts said.
"In our view, the market is effectively ignoring the consolidation opportunities in the sector and/or discounting management's ability to make successful acquisitions and earn a return above its cost of capital (despite its track record). Either way, we believe such a view to be unjustified and overly bearish." _


----------



## Joe Blow (28 March 2015)

*Re: GEM: G8 EDUCATION LIMITED*



CalpeInvestor said:


> About time something positive being said about GEM: _GEM:ASX : G8 EDUCATION LIMITED is being supported by Bank of America Merrill Lynch analysts who have come out in support for G8 Education, saying an underwritten dividend reinvestment plan and strong free cash flow would be enough to see off fears about an equity raising.
> G8 shares have been heavily sold over the past six weeks on fears about the roll-up's balance sheet and its ability to fund future acquisitions.
> "However after recent discussions with management, we do not believe an equity raising is imminent," BAML analysts told clients this morning.
> "GEM's acquisition pipeline is for a lesser 80-100 centres pa (vs more than 200 last year), which allows for a large part of the company's acquisition growth to be internally funded."
> ...




Hi CalpeInvestor, welcome to ASF!

When quoting from other sources, please be sure to link to the original article so others know where the quote  from. For those interested, the original article that CalpeInvestor quoted from can be found here: http://www.afr.com/street-talk/g8-e...of-america-merrill-lynch-says-20150326-1m8x7u


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## seamisty (25 June 2015)

Now is the time to sell G8 Education Ltd
The $688 million funding gap
 Basic fundamental analysis of G8 Education’s financials reveals that since 2007 it has been left with a growing funding gap of $668 million.
 This $668 million consists of negative cash flows after investing of $572 million, dividend payouts of $68 million, $27 million in other financing cash flows, and $0.17 million in foreign exchange effects. This leaves G8 Education with a funding gap of $668 million. To offset this gap, G8 Education has had to increase its borrowings by $385 million and raise equity of $400 million to cover the shortfall.
 Further, G8 Education’s return on equity (ROE) has consistently averaged a very poor 4.59% since 2007. In 2014, the company generated a ROE of around 13%. The only problem is that its growth-through-acquisition strategy has increased debt by 66% per year from $10 million to $352 million. Its debt-to-equity ratio is now at 42.83% in 2014.
Poor share price performance
 In the past 12 months, G8 Education’s share price has dropped by around 21%, a massive underperformance when you compare it to the S&P/ASX 200 (Index: ^AXJO)(ASX: XJO), which is up around 4% during the same time. The share price, which is currently around $3.50 is a long way from its high of around $5.60 back in September 2014.
 At its current price of around $3.50 and a P/E of around 20, I think G8 Education’s shares are still overvalued, even at these levels.

http://www.fool.com.au/2015/06/24/now-is-the-time-to-sell-g8-education-ltd/


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## Muschu (1 July 2015)

GEM is really struggling to hold at $3.20 at around a 12 month low.  Yet an announcement today, as I read it, was of a new major investor.

I've been a holder since $2.97.  I don't want to panic sell but perhaps the $$ might now be better invested elsewhere?


----------



## Triathlete (2 July 2015)

Muschu said:


> GEM is really struggling to hold at $3.20 at around a 12 month low.  Yet an announcement today, as I read it, was of a new major investor.
> 
> I've been a holder since $2.97.  I don't want to panic sell but perhaps the $$ might now be better invested elsewhere?




I do not follow GEM8 but the last chart I did above post 127 on the 9/1/2015 shows we are now in an Elliot wave C which could find support at $2.81   which is 50% of the all time high and $2.78 is the 50% level of the all time range which are significant levels and I would *definitely *get out if it closes below here worst case is it could go all the way to $1.50 if those levels are broken which is also the  261.8% range for a wave C...keep an eye on it Muschu.


----------



## Huskar (24 September 2015)

People are really starting to desert this one now.. Even the directors! The chairman Jenny Hutson now leaving. 
If only I had worked out a way to short it


----------



## ukulele (10 May 2016)

Some recent strength for GEM. Perhaps a nod to its yield?


----------



## ukulele (6 June 2016)

a 12 month closing high on friday on decent volume. Any more opinions on the chart by our esteemed members; it does look like it could break out. 

Or perhaps it's just a bit of a run due to it's dividend which should be announced soon?


----------



## VSntchr (6 June 2016)

ukulele said:


> a 12 month closing high on friday on decent volume. Any more opinions on the chart by our esteemed members; it does look like it could break out.
> 
> Or perhaps it's just a bit of a run due to it's dividend which should be announced soon?



IMO the BO has already occurred. I have been holding for a while as a momentum trade - but reduced my position as the big spikes down have been giving me worries...and I felt there was plenty of safer opportunities to redistribute into.


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## ukulele (6 June 2016)

Cheers for the insight. I suspect you and I differ a bit on time frames. I am still deciding on an "overall strategy". At the minute I have a "trading account" and a longer term "investing account" which the GEM purchase falls into. The wild swings do scare me but I will be holding longer term.

For my own education, and possibly others, care to share your entry and exit into GEM? Would a technical trader buy when the gap was filled on 29 apr or 02 May. Still a noob and working on strategies.


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## Dzaak (28 July 2016)

G8 is one of Canaccord's top Australian stock picks for their September quarter report. Their 12 month target is $4.94.
http://www.codan.com.au/DesktopModules/Orizonti_NukeNews/getLink.aspx?pid=0&tid=-1&newsid=833

 "G8 Education (GEM-ASX) – GEM is the largest operator of childcare and learning centres in Australia operating over 450 centres. The company trades on attractive metrics despite its strong track record of growth - 5 year (2010-2015) EPS CAGR of 36.7%. We are forecasting EPS growth of 24.2% in FY16 and 10.3% in FY17 driven by a combination of organic and acquisitions growth. With a fragmented market offering further acquisition growth and regulatory tailwinds we see further growth ahead."


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## ukulele (16 August 2016)

Getting creamed with that profit result... Wow.


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## Dzaak (16 August 2016)

Half Year results are out and they are less than stellar.  

It was a blood bath at opening today at only $2.76.  As of posting this post, the stock is down 75 cents (-20.33% vs yesterday's close).

My biggest questions is, how does this affect dividends?


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## ukulele (16 August 2016)

got out of it. Will keep an eye on it for a re-entry though!

Headline says quarterly div will remain the same.


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## Dzaak (16 August 2016)

ukulele said:


> got out of it. Will keep an eye on it for a re-entry though!
> 
> Headline says quarterly div will remain the same.




You got out today? Or before?  It really looks like the market is severely overreacting right now.  It looks like a great time to buy under $3.


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## notting (16 August 2016)

Dzaak said:


> G8 is one of Canaccord's top Australian stock picks for their September quarter report. Their 12 month target is $4.94.



Wow what a recommendation!

Growth by acquisition via debt is all they seem to be able to do.  When interest rates rise, they could put Eddie behind the wheel.


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## Dzaak (25 October 2016)

GEM looks primed for a leg up now that it has broken $3.20.  This stock sure was a dog's breakfast for those who bought in pre-earnings report and there continues to be risk with such as highly leveraged business.

That being said, TA is looking good right now. For those who have accumulated anywhere between $3.00 to $3.10, they would be jumping up and down with their great div yield and the pricing turning around now.

This half is also seasonally the good half for this industry.  So GEM is looking good for the next few months so GEM is looking good in both FA and TA right now.

We'll see if it stays this way in 6-8 month's time, but this looks like a good buy if you at least are looking to sell out in 6 months.

DYOR


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## Triathlete (25 October 2016)

Dzaak said:


> GEM looks primed for a leg up now that *it has broken $3.20*.
> 
> That being said, *TA is looking good right now*.
> 
> ...





What is special about breaking $3.20.....please explain..????

Technically the stock is still in a downtrend.

The FA I am looking at shows this company in a distressed state financially.


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## dpgrubesic (25 October 2016)

Triathlete said:


> What is special about breaking $3.20.....please explain..????
> 
> Technically the stock is still in a downtrend.
> 
> The FA I am looking at shows this company in a distressed state financially.




I have to agree, i know the fools seem to like this stock but that usually rises more alarm bells to me.

It has a load of debt due to its acquisition strategy a few poor acquisitions could see this stock price tumble.


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## Dzaak (3 November 2016)

And now it's $3.31!

Call me a fool if you like, I never said it was a smart long-term investment.  I quite clearly outlined it being risky due to the high debt.  I have to agree that it is not a smart long-term investment, but that wasn't the point of my post.
All I said is that the indicators are there to buy now and sell out in 6 months.   Seasonally, we are coming up to the larger earnings half for the childcare industry and GEM was confirmed as an up-trend when it broke $3.20 before my last post.


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## Triathlete (4 November 2016)

Dzaak said:


> And now it's $3.31!
> 
> I never said it was a smart long-term investment.
> 
> ...




So can you give us a further indication as to what price you are expecting this stock to run to..??

 or at what price you would get out at.


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## Dzaak (8 November 2016)

Triathlete said:


> So can you give us a further indication as to what price you are expecting this stock to run to..??
> 
> or at what price you would get out at.




First of all, It's too late to buy now. At the current price, the risk/reward just isn't worth it now, but it was great when it was in the trading range of $3.00 to $3.10 to accumulate for the stronger 2nd half that seasonally happens in this industry.

Being very conservative, there should be major resistance t $3.60. So I would be looking between $3.60 and $3.65 as the exit point.  This stock took it's huge hit after closing at $3.69, so I really don't see this hitting $3.70 unless some dramatic improvements show up on the next report.


Edit: Sorry I thought I'd just putting a large warning on this. I just realized that Shortman listed that last Friday (4th Nov) had 99.45% of stock sold as shorts.  That sounds like some sort of error, but if it's not, then it looks very scary for GEM.
As I previously said, this is just a short/mid term play for a trader working on TA.  The fundamentals of GEM look pretty average for a long-term investor with such a highly leveraged business.  They might be able to really turn things around if they start working on organically increasing occupancy, however any FA based investor should be looking at facts, not the "if's" or "might's" for the future.


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## WRiley (23 January 2017)

Reliving this thread, I have bought into GEM even after 3.55. Currently hovering at around 3.54 to 3.58. I intend to buy more if it trends downwards,... Childcare and Education has always been a top priority in the Australian and Singapore governments.


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## Dzaak (14 February 2017)

Hi WRiley,

I was quite bullish on GEM as a short-term trade a few months ago, and my predictions have come true so far regarding where it would hit resistance and exit strategy around $3.65 (if you are being conservative). It's outstanding div return makes it a strong performer between it's quarterly div announcement and the ex div date that follows it.  That's why I haven't exited yet, as I believe it can take the next leg up in the lead up to the next div.

That-being-said, GEM is quite risky, long-term, due to the following reasons:

- Childcare reforms will be announced soon.  It sounds like it will make parents better off which should, in theory, mean more business for operators like G8.  That being said, we don't really know what the final outcome will be.  Also we don't know if parents will be better off due to further government spending (good for G8) or measures put in place to force childcare centres to make their services more affordable (bad for G8). So in some ways, this makes GEM volatile and more of a gamble, than a safe long-term stock.

- G8 has acquired a lot of debt due to their fast expansion. So plenty of risk there.

- G8's div is VERY VERY good.  Considering the debt they have, there might be risk for the div to be reduced.  G8's performance is really propped up by the great div, so there is risk in the SP falling should that div be reduced.

- And finally, there the huge shadow of ABC learning cast over them.  Plenty believe that they are identical business models.

Now some positive points:

- Take what a company publicly says with a grain of salt if you like, but g8 have said that their primary focus now is improving their quality of service.  If they can delivery that, then they should have organic growth (instead of growth by acquisition).  This would great long-term.

- Change in senior management.   Their recent changes are focused towards operational and financial experience.  This is good news considering they need to manage their debt while improving quality of service.

- Of course, the previously mentioned childcare reforms can simply just workout perfectly for the industry (still, this is a gamble to bank on).

Good luck.


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## WRiley (14 February 2017)

Dzaak said:


> G8's div is VERY VERY good. Considering the debt they have, there might be risk for the div to be reduced. G8's performance is really propped up by the great div, so there is risk in the SP falling should that div be reduced.



Tq Dzaak,.. good explanations there and tq again for the time to write that up,...

I would just comment on yr point in the above - having read many materials and having invested in a few dividend counters, I see in every ctr, there are always possibilities for dividends to be reduced, and there are always reasons that will cause this to happen. There is no way to run away from dividend cut or dividend reduction possibilities.

At least if we have managed to buy a ctr with a good price giving an acceptable higher yield, then even if the dpu is cut, the yield may still be acceptable since it was high earlier.


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## Dzaak (27 February 2017)

What are posters thoughts on the recent announcement of cap raising and the new Chinese investor coming in?

Against by better judgement, I still hold.

In theory, the share dilution worries me, however the market doesn't agree. This stock has only soared further... probably because the new shares were purchases at such a premium to the current SP.

The thing is, a lot of negative sentiment with GEM has to do with the large debt.  The cap raising as alleviated much of this.  So is this why the stock continues to soar, even with the share dilution? Its really puzzling.


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## WRiley (27 February 2017)

Dzaak said:


> What are posters thoughts on the recent announcement of cap raising and the new Chinese investor coming in?
> 
> Against by better judgement, I still hold.
> 
> ...



Dilution is when you added a lot more shares or units and the amt of funds in the company is constant or has grown a little only - this is dilution. Hence, more shares 'sharing' same or less funds.

BUT - if the amt of funds has grown very much bigger, as in the shares being sold to this investor at such a premium, then this additional number of shares raised wouldn't constitute dilution too much !


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## WRiley (28 March 2017)

The result finally,.........
https://theconversation.com/policycheck-the-governments-new-child-care-plan-75046

What do you make of it ?? Good or bad for GEM ?


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## helpme (4 December 2017)

I am sick to the stomach this morning. Took losses of >20% on G8. It is one of my larger holdings in the portfolio.

I think it is due to the A$9m hit of Long Day Care Professional Development Program funding
Anyone can hazard a guess why G8 plunged so much this morning?

Time for deep reflection over the loss.


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## VSntchr (4 December 2017)

helpme said:


> Anyone can hazard a guess why G8 plunged so much this morning?
> 
> Time for deep reflection over the loss.



Have you not seen the updated earnings guidance released today?
Sorry about your loss, it happens in the stockmarket unfortunately and all you can do is learn and bounce back over time.


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## helpme (4 December 2017)

VSntchr said:


> Have you not seen the updated earnings guidance released today?
> Sorry about your loss, it happens in the stockmarket unfortunately and all you can do is learn and bounce back over time.




Thanks. I am still a bit dazed at the moment. >20% in a single morning for a large holding is pretty stunning to the mind.


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## helpme (4 December 2017)

Here is latest announcement that caused the >20% plunge this morning.
http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20171204/pdf/43pvszsqw16v6n.pdf

It was a reduction in forecast. There is nothing to justify a 20% plunge or hundreds of millions of losses in a single morning. Are there prior warning signs that could be heeded? Any smarter forummers here who avoided this bomb?


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## dutchie (4 December 2017)

Sorry for you loss helpme.
Unfortunately you may be in for some more pain, especially if it brakes support at about $3.


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## WRiley (4 December 2017)

I'm sorr


helpme said:


> Here is latest announcement that caused the >20% plunge this morning.
> http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20171204/pdf/43pvszsqw16v6n.pdf
> 
> It was a reduction in forecast. There is nothing to justify a 20% plunge or hundreds of millions of losses in a single morning. Are there prior warning signs that could be heeded? Any smarter forummers here who avoided this bomb?



I'm sorry for your loss, I have not read the guidance nor done any study, but if you are sure this is just a temporary down-blip,.. then just hold on to the counter. It's only an unrealised loss before you sell.

I sold out at 3.98 after they changed the dividend policy a few months ago,... I find this counter hard to understand, there are just so many moving parts.


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## Dzaak (5 March 2018)

If you look back a page, I was in strong support of this stock in mid 2016 (that feels like a long time ago now).

At the time, it was around $3.20, and I said the conservative investors ought to exit around $3.60.  Iw asn't conservative, held on and got out at a tad over $4.  I wish I held on slightly longer as the peak above $4.50 came around, but I was happy to not be taking that risk as GEM has always collapsed above $4.

Anyway, I haven't been paying attention to GEM until I saw this opportunity.

For those who have lost, I feel for you. I hope it all works out.. I've been there (was experiencing this exact same thing the first time I owned GEM, but I held on and  averaged down before selling at $4).

All I can say is there is a good opportunity here to average down, but it is worth waiting for the price to stabilize first. Even if the price pops up now, at least you're not taking the risk of buying while the price is still in a downward trend.

I've been burnt by TPG where I bought after a weak result, thinking I was buying at great value, only to see the price not stabilize and a very slow downward trend over the next 6-12 months.

For those wanting to take advantage of GEM, keep watching and be patient. When the price is stabilized, or starting to go up, then look to average down from the high price you bought at.

GEM has been through this before and I think it can get back to $3.60


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## Dzaak (5 March 2018)

Regarding my above comments, I also just want to add that the strength of GEM when it becomes cheap is because of its generous dividends.  As it gets cheap like it is now below $2.80, the dividend yield looks great.

So all I can say is that even though it is a great idea to buy in or average down when the G8 price stabilizes, this is with the assumption that GEM keeps it's 10c bi-annual dividend.  If results continue to wane, dividends may lower for all we know, that could be disastrous to the share price which has historically always bounced back when the div yield is looking so juicy.


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## greggles (6 April 2018)

Former chair of G8 Education Limited charged

http://asic.gov.au/about-asic/media-centre/find-a-media-release/2018-releases/18-088mr-former-chair-of-g8-education-limited-charged/ 


> The charges were brought by ASIC following an investigation into a takeover bid made in 2015 by G8 Education Limited (*G8 Education*) for Affinity Education Group Limited (*Affinity*).


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## greggles (27 August 2018)

G8 Education punished by the market today following the release of their HY18 financial results, which was mostly bad news.







Occupancy levels are down and wage costs are up. The company is not forecasting a material improvement in market conditions until mid to late 2019.

GEM is down 14.05% to $2.08 today. Given the grim trading outlook it is fair to say that we should see GEM languishing below $2 for some time. It's been a rough 12 months for G8 Education, but it looks like the pain isn't over yet.


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## rnr (29 November 2018)

GEM is slowly clawing back lost ground....but is it about to break above higher resistance?


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## peter2 (28 January 2019)

GEM has finally broken above recent resistance at the 3.00 level. 

The chart below is part of a research project and should not be considered a recommendation to buy this stock. If you want to read more about the project log in to read the P2 Weekly Portfolio thread. 

Setup: A clear BO-HR that I didn't see last week.    Buying it a little late. 
Grade A 
Buy limit: 3.05, iSL 2.60, initial target 4.40


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## Skate (28 January 2019)

peter2 said:


> GEM has finally broken above recent resistance at the 3.00 level.
> 
> The chart below is part of a research project and should not be considered a recommendation to buy this stock. If you want to read more about the project log in to read the P2 Weekly Portfolio thread.
> 
> ...




*Disclaimer*
I'm on this move already.

The chart below explains my entry (my Hybrid system need to be breakouts early)

Skate.


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## Smurf1976 (25 February 2019)

And down we go.....

Closed at $3.63 on Friday, currently trading at $3.18 so a significant fall following various announcements today.


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## Ann (25 February 2019)

Smurf1976 said:


> And down we go.....
> 
> Closed at $3.63 on Friday, currently trading at $3.18 so a significant fall following various announcements today.



Trying to focus on volumes which I tend to ignore far too much.  The EquiVolume GEM chart shows a lot of selling pressure at this level and above. I think from now on it may struggle as there is big selling pressure as well as a big gap down to overcome. It is a big ask to fight above all of this.


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## rnr (26 February 2019)

Interesting to see how quickly today prices moved to recover a portion of the extended move down!

I'm beginning to wonder if the market will accept that profits were down and that price will, over the next few bars, make a high in excess of $3.63.


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## debtfree (7 December 2020)

Nearly 2 years since last post. The chart of GEM looks like it's finished it's downward journey and moving higher even with legal proceeding filed against them.


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## Trav. (21 January 2021)

GEM has graduated to my watchlist 🎉🥳

Weekly chart below showing steady recovery since March lows and momentum change in oversold territory. $1.31 / 1.32 Resistance


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## Joules MM1 (8 October 2021)

after a 'significant' pummeling GEM is making very nice tracks uphill, likely to make









						TradingView Chart
					

See more on tradingview.com




					www.tradingview.com
				



pricing is very clean, standard construction of a trend todate, there are no targets, rather application of a simple channel suffices
for mine

all analysis is subject, there is no such thing as one analysis being more or less than another analysis, there is only application of risk.

after price came back inside a prior pullback we are now on a run for a technical break-out
in term of price length within the recently completed pullback, Nov 6th thru July 23rd, was less than 100% of the first pullback,
a sharp April 14th thru April 22 2020 rip
posting here has been relatively quiet, an anecdotal fit for a quiet ascension


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## Joules MM1 (23 November 2021)

TradingView Chart
					

See more on tradingview.com




					www.tradingview.com
				




liking this has found a low in slow non-attention-seeking slope


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## finicky (23 November 2021)

Ah, I see, the old abc within an *a b c *eh, you e.w guys ..


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## finicky (23 November 2021)

Nice rounding higher low here, small bodied candles ("slow, non attention seeking"), big positive volume entering. Looks cheap on fundamentals but for me too much debt and missed its 2020 dividend. Haven't read anything

All Data Mthly


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## Joules MM1 (10 December 2021)

TradingView Chart
					






					www.tradingview.com
				




nicely, quietly, tracking upwards


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## Joules MM1 (22 December 2021)

picked for the 2022 comp
GEM there's a  Labour gov coming, pro edu, growing population, nanny-state very popular art form
printing 1.065's today
and according to:


> MorningstarTM Quantitative
> 21 Dec 2021
> Undervalued
> Fair value *$1.53*


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## Ann (22 December 2021)

Joules MM1 said:


> picked for the 2022 comp
> GEM there's a  Labour gov coming, pro edu, growing population, nanny-state very popular art form
> printing 1.065's today
> and according to:




Bloody hope so Joules I have had to use a snorkel and mask for ages with this one! The high Twiggs money flow has kept me in instead of cutting my losses.


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## Ann (22 December 2021)

Although @Joules MM1, I reckon Morningstar's $1.53 may be a bit optimistic. I am hoping to get out about $1.30 without loss, that would do me!
That long term overhead is very ominous.


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## Ann (22 December 2021)

Having said that  @Joules MM1, I see the now-famous stock shorter, Vanguard has sold their holding, there may be a potential for a breakthrough above that well crafted falling trendline. Interesting to watch. However, I am out at $1.30. I have bigger fish to fry than a raped and damaged stock, attempting a recovery.


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## qldfrog (22 December 2021)

Joules MM1 said:


> picked for the 2022 comp
> GEM there's a  Labour gov coming, pro edu, growing population, nanny-state very popular art form
> printing 1.065's today
> and according to:



let's rephrase that pro selling residency visa via GEM barista master degrees ;-)
if only i was joking...
But you have a point, they will open the flood gates again and sell visa  via education;
I think I should open a competitor with an "online only delivery model"(can not beat that on cost) for covid safety of course
  no more pretend: send your money wait a couple of years while working in hospitality and repaying your fees and your smuggler, 
get your degree and citizenship, 
give a call and send cash to your family..and rince again.
GEM will go up..now should we wait a big crash before?


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## Dona Ferentes (22 December 2021)

qldfrog said:


> let's rephrase that pro selling residency visa via GEM barista master degrees ;-)
> if only i was joking...
> But you have a point, they will open the flood gates again and sell visa  via education;
> I think I should open a competitor with an "online only delivery model"(can not beat that on cost) for covid safety of course
> ...



You're a naughty boy.


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