# Greed and Financial Literacy



## GordonGekko (9 November 2008)

There has been a lot of specualtion and negativity towards GREED and it's role in our society more and more over the past few months.  The Prime Minister has blamed GREED for our financial situation, shareholders and the struggling community have blamed GREED also, but including the GREED of banks and brokers that seem to manipulate the financial world.

Where does the financial literacy come into it?  

Where does the responsibility of people's education and actions come into it?

I, as an advocate for GREED, teach that GREED IS GOOD to the young and old from all walks of life.  I lecture at Universities/TAFE's in Australia, hold courses and workshops throughout Oz and have more recently been on radio and TV interviews because of my controversial education and focus on GREED. 

Of course I receive certain amounts of ridicule from certain socioeconomic types from both ends of the spectrum. (rich and poor)

I am wanting to create this topic as a means to judge the pro and con arguments from both sides and gauge for myself where exactly YOU fit in to the equation and what exactly YOU are going to do about our current situation.  Does financial literacy need to be focused upon from an education point of view in our children's class rooms?

Are you struggling with your mortgages, rent, basic everyday things? Have you lost money in super-funds, and would you like to own more properties or seek an easier way to alleviate the financial stress?  

Let me know!!!

GEKKO


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## Wysiwyg (9 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*

Hi, I have one question and that regards what YOUR interpretation of greed is?It is certainly a - hard to define - word.


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## chops_a_must (9 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*

What does greed have to do with financial literacy?


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## Ageo (9 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*

I think there are 3 phases in finance today.....

Financially illiterate -----------> Financially literate--------------> Financially moral.

Basically the 1st phase is anyone financially poor and really doesnt have an understanding of finance (perhaps more gambling).

The 2nd i spose are people that pretty much accept (to themselves) in life that the current system is just that and they cant do anything about it so instead of whinging about it they learn from it and profit immensly.

The 3rd stage is when people realise that the way the monetary system is developed creates unnecessary boom and busts due to its crazy credit creation (money printed out of thin air etc..) and usually transfers wealth from poor and middle class to the rich class (as we are seeing now in some cases). I guess the people in this category believe that are current system isnt sustainable forever and will need massive reform eventually.

Personally i like to be in the 2nd and 3rd as although i dont believe this system is good for our society overall (not just to me) i cant hope that it will change overnight so i need to think about my family at this present stage.

Gekko i think greed that your thinking can be taken as many things, for 1 financial literacy isnt a bad thing but i spose you could call it greed as your wanting to acquire more wealth.

My understanding of greed is when you acquire wealth at the cost of someone else (usually there life). There are both wealthy people (good and bad) and i would call the bad greedy simply for there pure motives, Bill gates for an example giving alot of his money to charity would be classified as not greedy.


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## GordonGekko (9 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



Wysiwyg said:


> Hi, I have one question and that regards what YOUR interpretation of greed is?It is certainly a - hard to define - word.




Hi Wysiwyg,

"GREED" def. – noun "excessive or rapacious desire, esp. for wealth or possessions".

No where in the definaition of GREED does it say that it back stabs, cuts throats, lies or cheats.

My definition of GREED is the want and desire for life, love, money and knowledge.  I am concerned because I am seeing less and less people applying GREED to their lives, instead they opt for the 9-5 job that pays a pittance, winge about fuel prices and apply nothing to their own lives except complaints and negativity. 

GEKKO


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## numbercruncher (9 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



> and would you like to own more properties





lol ....


May the Greedy become the Needy


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## GordonGekko (9 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



chops_a_must said:


> What does greed have to do with financial literacy?




Exactly my point.

But yet GREED is being BLAMED for the financial problems we are facing today. Yet no focus on Financial Literacy. 

GEKKO.


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## Glen48 (9 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*

Look at all the Dictators Marcos, Armin, and all the rest, what good did their Billions do for them.
Can you sleep any better in a $2,000 a night room than coming home drunk and crashing on a Lounge Suite?
How much money do you want when some one like Gates drops $500 and make that much before he picks it up?
Nope 1 Mill would do me.
E-mail for a PO box to help me out as I have one thing money can't buy




Poverty


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## Wysiwyg (9 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



GordonGekko said:


> Exactly my point.
> 
> But yet GREED is being BLAMED for the financial problems we are facing today. Yet no focus on *Financial Literacy*.
> 
> GEKKO.




Like Philosophy, it should be a mandatory subject taught at school.Many adults place their TRUST in someone elses so called experience and understanding of financial matters.


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## Wysiwyg (9 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



Glen48 said:


> E-mail for a PO box to help me out as I have one thing money can't buy
> 
> 
> 
> ...





It`s the cigarettes Glen48, ya gotta give up the durries bro.


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## chops_a_must (9 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



GordonGekko said:


> Hi Wysiwyg,
> 
> "GREED" def. – noun "excessive or rapacious desire, esp. for wealth or possessions".
> 
> No where in the definaition of GREED does it say that it back stabs, cuts throats, lies or cheats.



It's explainable in reverse.

The actions of the greedy are often played out like that. You can't have "excessive or rapacious desire" without actions or indications of such.


GordonGekko said:


> Exactly my point.
> 
> But yet GREED is being BLAMED for the financial problems we are facing today. Yet no focus on Financial Literacy.
> 
> GEKKO.



No, it's not your point.

Financial literacy and greed are two distinct issues. Greed, applied to anything in life, invariably does not end well regardless of the arena it is applied to. The current crisis being the result of unmitigated greed, not financial illiteracy.

You have failed to make a valid argument as to why they should be considered in the same sentence. Just because one presents often in a similar arena, does not make it mutually exclusive to all but that arena.


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## GordonGekko (9 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



chops_a_must said:


> It's explainable in reverse.
> 
> The actions of the greedy are often played out like that. You can't have "excessive or rapacious desire" without actions or indications of such.
> 
> ...




Ahhhh yes it is my point.  Please read my posts if you wish to reply to them.
I am agreeing that financial literacy and GREED are two separate topics. However additionally to my point I add that we are blaming the wrong thing. GREED is NOT RESPONSIBLE for our current situation, IGNORANCE IS.  

You comment here on 'GREED being applied to any arena doesn't end well??' Well how do you explain all of my clients, their success and their constant implementation of GREED.  Please don't tell me that you can't see between the lines......IGNORANCE V's GREED.  

My goal is not to make a valid argument to certain people who will disagree with everything that I retort. They are in the same sentence because one is being surpassed for blame over the other, and those who do not recognise their mistakes are doomed to repeat them. Please don't let the media control all your views.

GEKKO.


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## prawn_86 (9 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*

I would argue that greed is responsible for this current crisis, by over-riding simple financial literacy.

Remember is was the whole sub-prime thing that kicked this all off. So, due to short-termism and greed for bonus/their own pockets etc, supposedly smart bankers and the like lent money to people whom they knew would not be able to pay it back.

They got greedy and hoped that they would make enough before the house of cards fell over. Some did, some didnt. 

Greed over-rode financial literacy.


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## chops_a_must (9 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



GordonGekko said:


> Ahhhh yes it is my point.  Please read my posts if you wish to reply to them.
> I am agreeing that financial literacy and GREED are two separate topics. However additionally to my point I add that we are blaming the wrong thing. GREED is NOT RESPONSIBLE for our current situation, IGNORANCE IS.
> 
> You comment here on 'GREED being applied to any arena doesn't end well??' Well how do you explain all of my clients, their success and their constant implementation of GREED.  Please don't tell me that you can't see between the lines......IGNORANCE V's GREED.
> ...




Complete and utter bollocks.

How do you explain that the most educated, most financially literate people in the world were largely the cause of the derivatives market melt down? Which is the cause of the property down turn and market down turn generally.

You credit "greed" with your clients success? "My clients have benefited from greed, therefore everyone can", is such a preposterous argument. Because any success you have is reliant upon people not doing what you are doing.

And in any case, have you ever thought that perhaps any success you may have had along the way may have simply been be cause of market conditions, or even generally, pot luck? There is simply no way you can say that what you are doing, will continue to work in the future because it has not lasted through varying conditions.

And in any case, from what I can gather from the brief look I've had, you advocate leveraging to the hilt. It would only take one bad deal for those people to lose a lot, everything probably.

Let us know how your "greed" goes if you are still using the same tactics in 10 years time.


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## Macquack (9 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*

Gordon Gekko/Luke Gilford, when are you going to *cut with the waffle *and give us all *some actual details  *about the deals whereby you make your clients/prey millions of dollars?


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## GordonGekko (9 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



chops_a_must said:


> Complete and utter bollocks.
> 
> How do you explain that the most educated, most financially literate people in the world were largely the cause of the derivatives market melt down? Which is the cause of the property down turn and market down turn generally.
> 
> ...




Ha ha ha ha ha ha... Oh my...

The most educated???  Financially Literate people???  What the???
I have been in this game for more than 10 years, and I will be in this game for 10 more and then 10 more after that and 10 more after that and so on...
It's funny that you class the people in America into the "Financially literate and most educated category...

Let me give you some insight into that comment and how blatenatly unfounded it is.  If I had a dollar for every time I go to a seminar or open forum and hear corporate banking super giants and senior investment banking directors that have been involved in this area of business for 30+ years, babble on and get it wrong EVERY TIME because they are living in the past and fail to move on and keep up their financial literacy (there are those two beautiful words again) i'd be richer than I already am.

Imagine a corporate banking super giant NOT knowing what an OFFSET account is.  This account is PARAMOUNT to the success of any investor because of its workability and diversification. But imagine GETTING THAT WRONG because you cant recommend to your clients something that you don't even know exists.  

So sorry to disappoint you Chops, but thinking that the boys and girls over in USA are financially literate (not all of them, some are actually quite good) is one of the biggest mistakes anyone can make.

To add on your clearly founded opinions regarding where I have made my success...I do not close my eyes and throw darts at a board, I am educated in the art of development and real estate speculation and don't require the market's falls and gains to make my move in the marketplace. And I never have. I make my money in BULL and BARE markets.

My clients DO NOT put all of their eggs in one basket, they use substantial diversification through many different aspects of tangibilities and it is here that they make their money really work for them.  And can I ask, what is that you do? Are you preaching from mere read knowledge, or from experience, and experience through practice NOT preach???

What did you mean by saying that my success is reliant upon people not doing what I am doing? Are you saying that there is not enough for everyone? That comment is preposterous. Anyone and everyone can do what I do, tall, thin, white, black, educated, uneducated (as long as they are willing to learn) poor, rich, successful, unsuccessful, young and old.  ANYONE.

GEKKO.


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## GordonGekko (9 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



Macquack said:


> Gordon Gekko/Luke Gilford, when are you going to *cut with the waffle *and give us all *some actual details  *about the deals whereby you make your clients/prey millions of dollars?




Ha ha ha PREY, love it!!!

Details???  What would like to know???

Would you like me to explain on a forum how to do all of "this".  "This" that takes months of education and applied learning?  You expect me to just quickly let you know all about it in a few sentences?

You wish.

But direct a more focused question to me and I would be happy to help you.  Maybe we can start with something simple....

Did you know that you can buy property with NO MONEY DOWN and manage that property and even pay that property off using NONE OF YOUR OWN MONEY???

GEKKO.


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## adobee (9 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



GordonGekko said:


> Ha ha ha PREY, love it!!!
> 
> Details???  What would like to know???
> 
> ...




*Did you know that you can buy property with NO MONEY DOWN and manage that property and even pay that property off using NONE OF YOUR OWN MONEY???*


Are you for real or taking this piss ???????


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## Julia (9 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



GordonGekko said:


> Ha ha ha ha ha ha... Oh my...
> 
> I make my money in BULL and BARE markets.



"BARE" Markets???



GordonGekko said:


> Ha ha ha PREY, love it!!!




Maybe something about glass houses and stones?





prawn_86 said:


> I would argue that greed is responsible for this current crisis, by over-riding simple financial literacy.
> 
> Remember is was the whole sub-prime thing that kicked this all off. So, due to short-termism and greed for bonus/their own pockets etc, supposedly smart bankers and the like lent money to people whom they knew would not be able to pay it back.
> 
> ...




I agree, Prawn.

I'd have thought "Greed" and "Financial Literacy" were two whole different topics.   Financial literacy is essential.


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## nunthewiser (9 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



adobee said:


> *Did you know that you can buy property with NO MONEY DOWN and manage that property and even pay that property off using NONE OF YOUR OWN MONEY???*
> 
> 
> Are you for real or taking this piss ???????




i dont think he is and i personally have an understanding how its done using equity in another property and tenancys , coupled with the right loan, can be done

and im illiterate


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## Ageo (9 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



GordonGekko said:


> But direct a more focused question to me and I would be happy to help you.  Maybe we can start with something simple....
> 
> Did you know that you can buy property with NO MONEY DOWN and manage that property and even pay that property off using NONE OF YOUR OWN MONEY???
> 
> GEKKO.




That would be a good question to start off with  hows is this done?


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## nunthewiser (9 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



nunthewiser said:


> i dont think he is and i personally have an understanding how its done using equity in another property and tenancys , coupled with the right loan, can be done
> 
> and im illiterate




BUT my experience in said matter was in a different envireoment , houses were cheap , a positively geared investment . i dare say using the right wizardry it is still achievable and also would be intrested to hear the answer to the question put previously on how , especially in current envireoment where the rent to mortgage factor is unbalanced to the wrong side of the line


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## Glen48 (9 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*

_I make my money in BULL and BARE markets.._.naked short selling???
Every thing is governed by supply and demand... Greed starts when demand exceeds supply which is all well and good until the demand drops off because the item/s has priced themselves out of the market.
Some one buys a house for 400 and puts it on the market for 500 no buyers so they drop the price and a chain reaction starts and the house of cards comes tumbling down. The ones with the Financial training or those who have been self taught are the ones how should get out unscathed however they are trapped because they have to abide by the same set of rules use by those who are consumed by greed.
Some ones perception of Wealth/Greed might be completely alien to another.
When ever I see some one with a 30Ft Boat being towed by a $120,000 Range Rover I see some one who wants to be recognised as a wealthy person and this is one way he can display his status.
Greed and the amount it governs you is genetic.


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## nunthewiser (10 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*

 off topic as usual .......BUT i also have watched "wall street " and remember that at the end of the day young gordon gekko ended up sharin a cell with a good lookin luvva boy named "bubba "  well that aint exactly true but hey never let the facts get in the way of a good story they say


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## GordonGekko (10 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



adobee said:


> *Did you know that you can buy property with NO MONEY DOWN and manage that property and even pay that property off using NONE OF YOUR OWN MONEY???*
> 
> 
> Are you for real or taking this piss ???????




No, I am for real.

GEKKO.


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## adobee (10 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



nunthewiser said:


> i dont think he is and i personally have an understanding how its done using equity in another property and tenancys , coupled with the right loan, can be done
> 
> and im illiterate




If you are using equity in another property it is the same as putting money down you are simply redrawing on it..  You would be hard pushed (I would say it is impossible) to find any property that is going to have capital growth that you can borrow 110% of (110% being no money down to cover your stamp duty solicitors fees etc) and collect rental that exceeds your interest repayments plus outgoings.. (Even if you say its all tax deductable etc etc you wont get to a point where your costs are covered)..  Dont start believing your own bullsh*t !


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## white_goodman (10 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*

the worst characteristics of humans are brought about in circumstances where there is a lack of money, financial abundance is good..


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## nunthewiser (10 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



adobee said:


> If you are using equity in another property it is the same as putting money down you are simply redrawing on it..  You would be hard pushed (I would say it is impossible) to find any property that is going to have capital growth that you can borrow 110% of (110% being no money down to cover your stamp duty solicitors fees etc) and collect rental that exceeds your interest repayments plus outgoings.. (Even if you say its all tax deductable etc etc you wont get to a point where your costs are covered)..  Dont start believing your own bullsh*t !





LOL oh dear , ok here is an example . queenstown tasmania , purchase price $48k , purchased on a investment loan using equity on another house , borrowed purchase price and extra 15 k to cover costs of purchase PLUS to cover new carpet 

rented out at $ 140/week 

sold 70k

no bull about it 

avaniceday


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## white_goodman (10 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



adobee said:


> If you are using equity in another property it is the same as putting money down you are simply redrawing on it..  You would be hard pushed (I would say it is impossible) to find any property that is going to have capital growth that you can borrow 110% of (110% being no money down to cover your stamp duty solicitors fees etc) and collect rental that exceeds your interest repayments plus outgoings.. (Even if you say its all tax deductable etc etc you wont get to a point where your costs are covered)..  Dont start believing your own bullsh*t !




you are correct sir, youd be hard pressed to find a cash flow positive property that isnt in a mining town


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## nunthewiser (10 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



nunthewiser said:


> i dont think he is and i personally have an understanding how its done using equity in another property and tenancys , coupled with the right loan, can be done
> 
> and im illiterate






nunthewiser said:


> BUT my experience in said matter was in a different envireoment , houses were cheap , a positively geared investment . i dare say using the right wizardry it is still achievable and also would be intrested to hear the answer to the question put previously on how , especially in current envireoment where the rent to mortgage factor is unbalanced to the wrong side of the line




yawns ...getting bored with my posts being taken out of context


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## nunthewiser (10 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



nunthewiser said:


> i dont think he is and i personally have an understanding how its done using equity in another property and tenancys , coupled with the right loan, can be done
> 
> and im illiterate






nunthewiser said:


> BUT my experience in said matter was in a different envireoment , houses were cheap , a positively geared investment . i dare say using the right wizardry it is still achievable and also would be intrested to hear the answer to the question put previously on how , especially in current envireoment where the rent to mortgage factor is unbalanced to the wrong side of the line






nunthewiser said:


> LOL oh dear , ok here is an example . queenstown tasmania , purchase price $48k , purchased on a investment loan using equity on another house , borrowed purchase price and extra 15 k to cover costs of purchase PLUS to cover new carpet
> 
> rented out at $ 140/week
> 
> ...




hopefully that clears things a little for those that want to pick and choose pieces of my posts 

thankyou


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## GordonGekko (10 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



white_goodman said:


> you are correct sir, youd be hard pressed to find a cash flow positive property that isnt in a mining town




I am not talking positively geared investments, I am talking about negatively geard investments.

GEKKO.


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## GordonGekko (10 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



Ageo said:


> That would be a good question to start off with  hows is this done?




A very good question,

And that is why I hold my workshops.  For people to learn how to do it, cause yes, it can be done, my last 4 deals I have done that way.

GEKKO.


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## nunthewiser (10 November 2008)

So u are in this forum to gain clients for your workshops ?

or should i say the purpose of your use of this forum is to advertise indirectly your workshops ?


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## Macquack (10 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



GordonGekko said:


> I am not talking positively geared investments, I am talking about *negatively geard investments*.
> 
> GEKKO.




Negative gearing means you are going backwards, except if the property appreciates. In this real estate market, I would have thought negative gearing is a risky proposition.


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## prawn_86 (10 November 2008)

GordonGekko said:


> A very good question,
> 
> And that is why I hold my workshops.  For people to learn how to do it, cause yes, it can be done, my last 4 deals I have done that way.
> 
> GEKKO.






nunthewiser said:


> So u are in this forum to gain clients for your workshops ?
> 
> or should i say the purpose of your use of this forum is to advertise indirectly your workshops ?




Gordon,

As has been said before, you are more than welcome to contribute, but you MUST follow ASFs code of conduct. You are currently pushing the boundaries.

If you wish to advertise your services then feel free to contact Joe to discuss a payment plan.

Prawn


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## nunthewiser (10 November 2008)

Ooopsies. sorry about that gordon ...... my post previously was only asking as you seemed not to be able to answer the question here as requested but more than happy if we came to the actual workshop, some of us have commitments and unable to jet over to the goldcoast on a whim  and hey u did ask previously for questions ...............


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## numbercruncher (10 November 2008)

lol !!


How did I know that Gekko was here to peddle his snake oil ....

Credit crunch starting to bite huh ?

How much do you charge people to find out the secret of obtaining houses for free or no money down paying themselves off as you put it ?


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## GordonGekko (10 November 2008)

nunthewiser said:


> So u are in this forum to gain clients for your workshops ?
> 
> or should i say the purpose of your use of this forum is to advertise indirectly your workshops ?




No, I go on this forum to talk to people.  

I also hold workshops.  If I wanted business, i'd say, hey wanna come to my workshops?

I create this discussion for the reasons listed in my thread.

GEKKO.


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## GordonGekko (10 November 2008)

numbercruncher said:


> lol !!
> 
> 
> How did I know that Gekko was here to peddle his snake oil ....
> ...




Well, NOT that I am wanting any business from here as this is against ASF policy (thank you Prawn) but I don't charge, that is the whole point.

What credit crunch???  I never find it hard to get credit.

GEKKO.


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## nunthewiser (10 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



GordonGekko said:


> Ha ha ha PREY, love it!!!
> 
> Details???  What would like to know???
> 
> ...




sorry if i misunderstood this post 

a question was asked regarding this statement and the reply was"A very good question,

And that is why I hold my workshops. For people to learn how to do it, cause yes, it can be done, my last 4 deals I have done that way.

GEKKO. "

am i missing something ?


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## robots (10 November 2008)

hello,

just doing your bit for society like most of us

thankyou
robots


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## GordonGekko (10 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



Macquack said:


> Negative gearing means you are going backwards, except if the property appreciates. In this real estate market, I would have thought negative gearing is a risky proposition.




Yes Macquack,

I know what negatively geared means.

ok....one of my deals in Brisbane;

PP Land 250
Build     300
Softs      80

TOTAL = 630

Valuation  = 880K. Difference 250K.... Simple.

GEKKO.


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## nunthewiser (10 November 2008)

And yes i can verify i have been offered a free seat at an evening workshop being held in the gold coast .NO charge for this ........ 

there is charges for the weekend workshops

but thats another story


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## GordonGekko (10 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



nunthewiser said:


> sorry if i misunderstood this post
> 
> a question was asked regarding this statement and the reply was"A very good question,
> 
> ...




No nunthewiser I dont think you are....Although I could be mistaken.

GEKKO.


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## Macquack (10 November 2008)

GordonGekko said:


> Well, NOT that I am wanting any business from here as this is against ASF policy (thank you Prawn) *but I don't charge, that is the whole point*.
> 
> GEKKO.




Then you must have a *trailing commission *built in to your deals/scams.


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## GordonGekko (10 November 2008)

nunthewiser said:


> And yes i can verify i have been offered a free seat at an evening workshop being held in the gold coast .NO charge for this ........
> 
> there is charges for the weekend workshops
> 
> but thats another story




Yes that is true, but for different topics completely.  We are talking about buying property with no money down.

GEKKO.


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## nunthewiser (10 November 2008)

ok then ....... here is my query ........ IF the workshops are free , the workshops apparently answer what we need to know etc etc . all free . ..... how do you cover the costs of the venue ? are you doing this out the goodness of your heart ? IF this is all free etc etc and all knowledge being donated out of the goodness of your cockles ....... WHY cant you answer the same questions here ?


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## prawn_86 (10 November 2008)

GordonGekko said:


> Yes that is true, but for different topics completely.  We are talking about buying property with no money down.
> 
> GEKKO.




Actually we are talking about greed and financial literacy.

Start a thread about buying property with no money down if you are willing to explain how it is done without spamming.


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## nunthewiser (10 November 2008)

excuse me for being a cynic but the last thing i got for free from a stranger i needed a cream to clear up the rash

where is your payoff ? do we have to buy a book at the workshop to gain the full knowledge ? are we invited to invest in a "deal " ?

excuse my tone if it is bordering cheeky etc , that is not the case , just tryin to work out whether it worth my time to fly to the goldcoast if it just gunna be yet another sales pitch


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## nunthewiser (10 November 2008)

I take it from the silence that you are typing me a long and detailed answer to my questions mr gekko 

or are you organising a gift of plane tickets to the venue for me and my business partner to prove that you certainly are a genorous individual and donating your knowledge to mankind with no profiteering involved

thanks in advance


----------



## nunthewiser (10 November 2008)

sorry just checking to see if mr gekko got back to me


----------



## GordonGekko (10 November 2008)

Macquack said:


> Then you must have a *trailing commission *built in to your deals/scams.




No Macquack,

Try an not be so cynical.

Geeezzz.


----------



## GordonGekko (10 November 2008)

nunthewiser said:


> ok then ....... here is my query ........ IF the workshops are free , the workshops apparently answer what we need to know etc etc . all free . ..... how do you cover the costs of the venue ? are you doing this out the goodness of your heart ? IF this is all free etc etc and all knowledge being donated out of the goodness of your cockles ....... WHY cant you answer the same questions here ?




Let's say that I do answer these questions, it is sooo hard to explain the types of structures that you need in text, the loans scenarios, products, how to go about the negotiation of the deal etc.....  

It isn't something that I can just email, otherwise I wouldn't have to fork out for the venue.....

GEKKO.


----------



## GordonGekko (10 November 2008)

nunthewiser said:


> sorry just checking to see if mr gekko got back to me




Nunthewiser,

If you wish to fly to the gold coast and participate in my FREE workshop, then that is ok with me.

But what if it's not enough?  People are different.  I have some people come to my evenings and listen to the 3 hour workshop, go away with the knowledge (Some sit through more than one free workshop to make sure they get it) and make themselves a pretty penny.  Others have to do more advanced stuff to get it cause they are not savvy enough in THEIR opinion.  Others get scared when faced with an ACTION to take and they just cant do it, and then again some more people just enjoy the networking, pitch me a deal and then we end up having coffee and doing JV's.

It is so different, many spectrums are in the room.

I dont have books, although I can recommend you to read a few, I never invite people to invest with me, they can submit a business plan to me if they want to use my team (town planners, legals, real estate, accountants etc..) but I never ask ANYONE for that, it's too personal. 

I do have other courses that you can do, but WE ARE NOT TALKING about them here....as if we were, Prawn would rap my knuckles yet again.

GEKKO.


----------



## GordonGekko (10 November 2008)

nunthewiser said:


> I take it from the silence that you are typing me a long and detailed answer to my questions mr gekko
> 
> or are you organising a gift of plane tickets to the venue for me and my business partner to prove that you certainly are a genorous individual and donating your knowledge to mankind with no profiteering involved
> 
> thanks in advance




Ok, so say if I did pay for your tickets, what do I get in return?

It must be win/win.

And don't answer that by saying that I win by you coming to my workshop.

GEKKO.


----------



## nunthewiser (10 November 2008)

GordonGekko said:


> Nunthewiser,
> 
> If you wish to fly to the gold coast and participate in my FREE workshop, then that is ok with me.
> 
> ...




ok thanks for the reply and fair enough BUT my query is how do you make a buck from this?? i know it isnt cheap to hire venues and provide the marketing to accompany it....... you cant seriously expect me to believe that you are donating YOUR cash for the good of your fellow man to teach them your knowledge with no remunaration involved , that would kinda be going against the whole idea of being in business to be profitable.

i realise you obviously do have a knowledge base thats prolly worth a listen as i can see by your posts u seem to be a fairly switched on young man BUT i also do not believe you are doing all this for free at the end of the day


----------



## nunthewiser (10 November 2008)

GordonGekko said:


> Ok, so say if I did pay for your tickets, what do I get in return?
> 
> It must be win/win.
> 
> ...




LOL well my friend . IF i find that your scheme and workshops etc are on the level and merely not an avenue to unload some more cash off already hurting investors , i would be more than happy to use my name in the many places i post/communicate to pass on your good name if that was to be the case


----------



## GordonGekko (10 November 2008)

nunthewiser said:


> ok thanks for the reply and fair enough BUT my query is how do you make a buck from this?? i know it isnt cheap to hire venues and provide the marketing to accompany it....... you cant seriously expect me to believe that you are donating YOUR cash for the good of your fellow man to teach them your knowledge with no remunaration involved , that would kinda be going against the whole idea of being in business to be profitable.
> 
> i realise you obviously do have a knowledge base thats prolly worth a listen as i can see by your posts u seem to be a fairly switched on young man BUT i also do not believe you are doing all this for free at the end of the day




Ok I got your point....and this is what I battle with every day of my life.  People ALWAYS collapse GREEDY with GREED.  I am an ADVOCATE for GREED not GREEDY.  So in saying that, there is NO obligation to do business with me, go forward after the free night and have a wonderful life, do additional courses to learn more, or keep coming just to get inspired, it doesn't matter to me, although it will matter to you, I already do this and make good money from it.  

If people want to come along to learn the psychology of finance and correct structures, that if implemented correctly will lead them to getting what they want (depending on each others games and desires) then they can, and they have NO PRESSURE to do it.  It's called giving without the expectation for receiving.  I have always earn't good money, and I earn it through being generous and giving to people what I have learnt along the way.

Of course, if this is all I did I wouldn't last very long, but its not all I do, its just part of what I love to do.  I love to see people NOT get ripped by banks, by NOT getting ripped by dodgy real estate agents... If I can stop ONE person from getting ripped, then I have done my job, but as it turns out, I stop thousands.  Which to me is very rewarding. Usually, and being honest, most of my clients continue to do business with me, as I offer them information that enables them to get what it is that they are looking for.

GEKKO.


----------



## GordonGekko (10 November 2008)

nunthewiser said:


> LOL well my friend . IF i find that your scheme and workshops etc are on the level and merely not an avenue to unload some more cash off already hurting investors , i would be more than happy to use my name in the many places i post/communicate to pass on your good name if that was to be the case




Well then, you're just gonna have to make that investment to see, aren't you.

GEKKO.


----------



## nunthewiser (10 November 2008)

GordonGekko said:


> Ok I got your point....and this is what I battle with every day of my life.  People ALWAYS collapse GREEDY with GREED.  I am an ADVOCATE for GREED not GREEDY.  So in saying that, there is NO obligation to do business with me, go forward after the free night and have a wonderful life, do additional courses to learn more, or keep coming just to get inspired, it doesn't matter to me, although it will matter to you, I already do this and make good money from it.
> 
> If people want to come along to learn the psychology of finance and correct structures, that if implemented correctly will lead them to getting what they want (depending on each others games and desires) then they can, and they have NO PRESSURE to do it.  It's called giving without the expectation for receiving.  I have always earn't good money, and I earn it through being generous and giving to people what I have learnt along the way.
> 
> ...




and people doing business with you means investing there money with you ? or do you take a fee for advice/information?


----------



## nunthewiser (10 November 2008)

GordonGekko said:


> Well then, you're just gonna have to make that investment to see, aren't you.
> 
> GEKKO.




So i take it my offer to spread your good name IF i found your scheme on the level was not incentive enough for you to be confident enough to outlay an investment in a couple of air fares , hey thats fair enough , i prolly wouldnt pay out either ........ hey IF it was on the level i coulda been one of those dudes ya see on all those get rich quick pamphlets saying how great an idea it was !


----------



## GordonGekko (10 November 2008)

nunthewiser said:


> and people doing business with you means investing there money with you ? or do you take a fee for advice/information?




Yes, they usually invest in deals that they control and need mentoring on, on they want to learn more about trading in options etc... so these other courses are ones that people can make an investment in, but I said, these are the one's that I DO NOT talk about here, as I will get in trouble.

The other ones that I am talking about are FREE and with no hidden intentions.

Topics like;

-REDUCING YOUR NON DEDUCTIBLE DEBT 10 YEARS FASTER
-TYPES OF LOANS THAT THE BANKS DONT WANT YOU TO KNOW ABOUT
-WHAT WORKS FOR YOU
-DOING A DEAL SO AS TO GET YOUR DEPOSIT BACK AND HAVE THAT DEAL FUND ITSELF.

And many more......

GEKKO.


----------



## GordonGekko (10 November 2008)

nunthewiser said:


> So i take it my offer to spread your good name IF i found your scheme on the level was not incentive enough for you to be confident enough to outlay an investment in a couple of air fares , hey thats fair enough , i prolly wouldnt pay out either ........ hey IF it was on the level i coulda been one of those dudes ya see on all those get rich quick pamphlets saying how great an idea it was !




hahahahaha I love it.

But to be honest and not to be RUDE or arrogant.  Word of mouth is sweeter when you dont have to pay for it.

GEKKO.


----------



## Macquack (10 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



GordonGekko said:


> ok....one of my deals in Brisbane;
> 
> PP Land 250
> Build     300
> ...




Dodgy valuation?
Can you sell for 880K?, I doubt it.
Land looks too cheap compared to the valuation/ overcapitalised?

This may have been possible at the height of the real estate boom, but not now.


----------



## nunthewiser (10 November 2008)

I wish you well mr gekko but personally think that there is more to this story than pure genorosity of knowledge , also i think id better stop my queries now as you may upset the owners of this forum by using my questions as a springboard to advertise the content of your workshop .

my cynisism will not allow me to believe that you are here to benefit your fellow man without some form of monetary or business gain , this is said with no disrespect intended just reality .

i have actually had a bit of a dig around in the geneva site and can see the various other products u guys have for sale , not to my liking but thats me .

as far as the FREE this and FREE that is concerned i may be looking a gifthorse in the mouth but i have been to a few other FREE info  seminars ranging from options trading to industrial property investment to timber plantation investments to beat the banks at there own games type of spiels..

do ya want to know what they all have in common?

ALL of them breeze around the edges without actually dealing in the actual mechanics, huffing and puffing how easy it is to get rich , how succesful they are and how easy it is for YOU to be like that too 

right before they slug ya with a varying fee for either a book , software , investment youd be silly to knock back and all sorts of other odds and sods that apparently are free but seem to cost a bleedin fortune by the end of it 

I probably am wrong in my assesment of what you are offering and hey thats my loss but i think that if one is using the forums to talk turkey regarding there great ideas , why dont they share them on these forums instead 

thankyou for your time mr gilford


----------



## SM Junkie (10 November 2008)

Good on you nunthewiser, you called this for exactly what it is - a sales pitch. 

I really object to people using this forum for such purposes and I can see by other threads started by GordonGekko that there is an underlying theme to direct people to your blog or courses.  Unfortunately this undermines any meaningful contribution you make in future discussions on other threads.

No point joining in the discussion on Greed and Fiancial Literacy as no doubt If I don't do a course then I'm just won't get it will I.


----------



## GordonGekko (10 November 2008)

nunthewiser said:


> I wish you well mr gekko but personally think that there is more to this story than pure genorosity of knowledge , also i think id better stop my queries now as you may upset the owners of this forum by using my questions as a springboard to advertise the content of your workshop .
> 
> my cynisism will not allow me to believe that you are here to benefit your fellow man without some form of monetary or business gain , this is said with no disrespect intended just reality .
> 
> ...




Thanks for your honesty, it is a refreshing change.

GEKKO.


----------



## GordonGekko (10 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



Macquack said:


> Dodgy valuation?
> Can you sell for 880K?, I doubt it.
> Land looks too cheap compared to the valuation/ overcapitalised?
> 
> This may have been possible at the height of the real estate boom, but not now.




If I sell it Macquack, do I pay tax??

How much tax do I pay on the refinance money if I hold it?

GEKKO.


----------



## GordonGekko (10 November 2008)

SM Junkie said:


> Good on you nunthewiser, you called this for exactly what it is - a sales pitch.
> 
> I really object to people using this forum for such purposes and I can see by other threads started by GordonGekko that there is an underlying theme to direct people to your blog or courses.  Unfortunately this undermines any meaningful contribution you make in future discussions on other threads.
> 
> No point joining in the discussion on Greed and Fiancial Literacy as no doubt If I don't do a course then I'm just won't get it will I.




Actually, and if you bothered to read the posts, the prompting came from other members just merely asking questions.

I am not here to get business, I do ok.....I am just here to add my  and see if I cant add to someone's life.  But I'm sure that you already knew that.

You dont have to do courses to get it......but it surely helps, after all this thread is called FINANCIAL LITERACY not  financial ignorance.

GEKKO.


----------



## mayk (10 November 2008)

Can you compare Australian financial structure to the rest of the world (a comparison to US and UK might be helpful).


----------



## Macquack (11 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



GordonGekko said:


> If I sell it Macquack, do I pay tax??
> .



Yes.




GordonGekko said:


> How much tax do I pay on the refinance money if I hold it?
> GEKKO.



None.

If you hold it forever, you may never pay any tax.

Whats your point?


----------



## BradK (11 November 2008)

robots said:


> hello,
> 
> just doing your bit for society like most of us
> 
> ...




hello, 

In the context of the discussion to this point, this post generated a smile on my face at the end of a hard day. 

One of the most wry and understated posts on ASF all year. 

Three cheers for Robots. 

thankyou
brad


----------



## BradK (11 November 2008)

GordonGekko said:


> Ok, so say if I did pay for your tickets, what do I get in return?
> 
> It must be win/win.
> 
> ...




hello,

Gosh! You propositioned a NUN mate! A NUN. She didn't even get it. Man, you are a disgrace to snake oil salesman everywhere. 

thankyou
brad


----------



## nunthewiser (11 November 2008)

BradK said:


> hello,
> 
> Gosh! You propositioned a NUN mate! A NUN. She didn't even get it. Man, you are a disgrace to snake oil salesman everywhere.
> 
> ...




LOL im not that kinda nun

and woulda flown to see his spiel to see if on level if they were willing to compensate me via air tickets

all cool tho , we have had our discussion and i am satisfied with my assesment and the outcome


----------



## BradK (11 November 2008)

nunthewiser said:


> LOL im not that kinda nun




hello, 

Naawwww... that takes all the excitement and sexual tension out of the thread. 

thankyou
brad


----------



## GordonGekko (12 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



Macquack said:


> Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




My simple point is....I have the valuation of $880K.  What do banks do when allowing you to refinance, they look at the valuation don't they? 

YOU SAID: Dodgy valuation?
Can you sell for 880K?, I doubt it.
Land looks too cheap compared to the valuation/ overcapitalised?

This may have been possible at the height of the real estate boom, but not now.

I dont want to sell it, but I can refi it and realise my tax free pop, cant I??

That's my point Macquack.

And no, it was not a dodgy valuation, I hope that bank valuers are not dodgy. Land was very cheap, I bought well, now its rented for $850 per week, paid in advance one year.

GEKKO.


----------



## GordonGekko (12 November 2008)

BradK said:


> hello,
> 
> Naawwww... that takes all the excitement and sexual tension out of the thread.
> 
> ...




Awww, what a shame Brad.

Thanks for your well thought out response and intelligent contribution, you have restored my faith in humanity.

GEKKO.


----------



## Naked shorts (13 November 2008)

GordonGekko said:


> -REDUCING YOUR NON DEDUCTIBLE DEBT 10 YEARS FASTER
> -TYPES OF LOANS THAT THE BANKS DONT WANT YOU TO KNOW ABOUT
> -WHAT WORKS FOR YOU
> -DOING A DEAL SO AS TO GET YOUR DEPOSIT BACK AND HAVE THAT DEAL FUND ITSELF.





HEY GORDON, IS YOUR KEYBOARD STUCK ON CAPS?  MINE TO!!LOL


----------



## nunthewiser (19 November 2008)

Dear mr Gekko , long time no parlez 

i have a query on YOUR webpage, i see you promote a link to the " The secret " thankfully to a members sleuthing in the past it seems this company has been involved in dodgy dealings , painful loss by investors and general shonkiness. does this Company advertised by YOU have any relevance to your "deals"? does this company have any involvement with you or vica versa? ( be rest assured i dare say with a bit more research i can find out for myself), are you a student of this man ? 

so many questions

i bring to your attention ( if the mods dont mind ) the link from your website

http://greedisgood.com.au/welcome/page8.php

this is a copy of your text off said page
"Below is a link to "The Secret".  The secret is a fabulous website.  This site has truly inspired me in my own pursuit for excellence and achievement.  Please visit this site and feel free to share with me what it is that you got and what it is that you now see possible."

here is a link to a media video exposing a few unwanted "secrets" on this company / "  guru"

http://video.msn.com/video.aspx/?mk...9AF-0C0B-4E84-AA12-294366F64C4D&wa=wsignin1.0

now i might not be the sharpest tool in the shed and i dare say you got a smooth and informative answer for me , but im intrigued about this whole connection/promotion by you on this "dodgy" lil number

thanks in advance for an answer to my querys

a.nun


----------



## nunthewiser (19 November 2008)

Mr gekko ?


----------



## numbercruncher (19 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



GordonGekko said:


> Did you know that you can buy property with NO MONEY DOWN and manage that property and even pay that property off using NONE OF YOUR OWN MONEY???




I read all banks now require a deposit, most are 10pc ...... + mortgage insurance ....

Have you devised a way around this or are you going to be forced to alter your sales pitch ?


----------



## rub92me (19 November 2008)

nunthewiser said:


> Mr gekko ?



I think you forgot to put capitals in your question, so lucky Luke won't see it


----------



## nunthewiser (19 November 2008)

rub92me said:


> I think you forgot to put capitals in your question, so lucky Luke won't see it




lol , nah im just illiterate , personally hanging on the edge of my seat waiting for an explanation


----------



## Julia (19 November 2008)

nunthewiser said:


> Dear mr Gekko , long time no parlez
> 
> i have a query on YOUR webpage, i see you promote a link to the " The secret " thankfully to a members sleuthing in the past it seems this company has been involved in dodgy dealings , painful loss by investors and general shonkiness. does this Company advertised by YOU have any relevance to your "deals"? does this company have any involvement with you or vica versa? ( be rest assured i dare say with a bit more research i can find out for myself), are you a student of this man ?
> 
> ...



Nun, a further quote from Mr Gilford's website is:


> Firstly, don't ever let anyone tell you what to do, or tell you that you can't.  Anything that you want for yourself and your life is available through correct access and the knowledge of workability.  Come up with a dream and then the Universe will put together the pieces for you.  I'm not saying that it will happen without hardwork, what I am saying is, don't let the illusion of the "norm" blind you on your quest to get what you want out of life.




When I read this I remembered that great segment from The Chasers' - a spoof on "The Secret" which was all the rage at the time.   The theme was that all you had to do was think something was yours and it would happen.
They acted out some hilarious consequences of this airy fairy philosophy with predictably funny results.


----------



## nunthewiser (19 November 2008)

Julia said:


> Nun, a further quote from Mr Gilford's website is:
> 
> 
> When I read this I remembered that great segment from The Chasers' - a spoof on "The Secret" which was all the rage at the time.   The theme was that all you had to do was think something was yours and it would happen.
> They acted out some hilarious consequences of this airy fairy philosophy with predictably funny results.




 well i think i want drew barrymore 

the airy fairy stuff dont phase me its the stuff on that video expose that does , this airy fairy fantasy game has led to a bit of diddling and scamming of normal everyday people according to that video


----------



## nunthewiser (20 November 2008)

just checking if i had got a reply yet to my question

oh well


----------



## tasmart (20 November 2008)

I came across this which explains well how we got here :

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&refer=columnist_gilbert&sid=a1fW2P6H4W5U

And the attitude of the greedy and supposedly financial literate!

Anyone got a recipe for 'humble pie'?


----------



## nunthewiser (20 November 2008)

nunthewiser said:


> Dear mr Gekko , long time no parlez
> 
> i have a query on YOUR webpage, i see you promote a link to the " The secret " thankfully to a members sleuthing in the past it seems this company has been involved in dodgy dealings , painful loss by investors and general shonkiness. does this Company advertised by YOU have any relevance to your "deals"? does this company have any involvement with you or vica versa? ( be rest assured i dare say with a bit more research i can find out for myself), are you a student of this man ?
> 
> ...




Dear mr G , i had to rehash my original question as been a few posts since and im afraid you may have missed it,

i do hope you respond tonight as i am off on an awfully big adventure for the next 3/4 weeks and might not be in too view the answer

if you cant make it tonight,  i will try and remember to ask again when i get back just in case the question is lost again 

have a great evening and catchya later


----------



## Naked shorts (21 November 2008)

nunthewiser said:


> Dear mr G , i had to rehash my original question as been a few posts since and im afraid you may have missed it,
> 
> i do hope you respond tonight as i am off on an awfully big adventure for the next 3/4 weeks and might not be in too view the answer
> 
> ...




MAYBE HE HAS BEEN TAKEN IN BY THE AUTHORITIES BECAUSE OF HIS DODGY DEALINGSLOL
DAM CAPS ROFL


----------



## GordonGekko (22 November 2008)

nunthewiser said:


> Dear mr G , i had to rehash my original question as been a few posts since and im afraid you may have missed it,
> 
> i do hope you respond tonight as i am off on an awfully big adventure for the next 3/4 weeks and might not be in too view the answer
> 
> ...




Sorry nun....been away on conference.

I promote the secret as a way to stay positive.  Looking into it any further and you are just wasting your time on over-analysis.

If people on that video have been dodgy, then they will be caught.  I am annoyed that something so simple can be tainted by people who have no integrity.

GEKKO.

GEKKO.


----------



## GordonGekko (22 November 2008)

Naked shorts said:


> MAYBE HE HAS BEEN TAKEN IN BY THE AUTHORITIES BECAUSE OF HIS DODGY DEALINGSLOL
> DAM CAPS ROFL




Sorry Naked Shorts, what dodgy dealings would you be referring to??

GEKKO.


----------



## theasxgorilla (22 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



numbercruncher said:


> I read all banks now require a deposit, most are 10pc ...... + mortgage insurance ....
> 
> Have you devised a way around this or are you going to be forced to alter your sales pitch ?




You could always come to the Netherlands.  Even in this market I can borrow 100% of my purchase price, plus my purchase costs (eg. stamp duty plus more), and open a effective line of credit for any renovations I'd like to make to the house.  So long as the total of this loan doesn't exceed the maximum amount my salary qualifies me for.


----------



## GordonGekko (22 November 2008)

*Re: GREED Financial Literacy and Property*



numbercruncher said:


> I read all banks now require a deposit, most are 10pc ...... + mortgage insurance ....
> 
> Have you devised a way around this or are you going to be forced to alter your sales pitch ?




Well actually if you READ my post you will see that I have said that you can buy property with NO MONEY down.  Where in that did I mention getting a mortgage???

You people have got to start seeing OUTSIDE the square if you are going to move forward in life.  Instead of picking every little microscopic word from every post that I make, how about ASKING how to do it or better yet, practice it yourself.

Never will I have to recant anything I say, because the things that I teach have always been around and will always be around, you just have to become literate and use the system to your advantage, after all, these laws have been created to ASSIST you not HINDER you.

Additionally, only CBA and ANZ have opened their mouths about not offering 'no deposit home loans'.  But what about the other 60+ lenders out there, or do only know about the big 4??? 

GEKKO.


----------



## Wysiwyg (22 November 2008)

An alternative to a mortgage is saving for 40 years and paying cash for the house.I know I know, inflation will kill you this way.Gotta love the financial system and the niche these predators are in hey.


----------



## theasxgorilla (22 November 2008)

Wysiwyg said:


> An alternative to a mortgage is saving for 40 years and paying cash for the house.I know I know, inflation will kill you this way.Gotta love the financial system and the niche these predators are in hey.




Once again, in the Netherlands, you can get your loan, go and buy your house, pay the interest on your loan (think of it as renting your own abode), and each month put away a separate principal component into an interest-bearing, tax-advantaged savings scheme so that at the end of your mortgage period you have enough to go bang, pay off the original loan and own the house.  Or would you rather rent from a landlord and wait 40 years??

For those who are not so faint-hearted you can opt to invest the accrued principal savings into riskier assets with the aim of generating higher returns.  Unfortunately I think the people who did this 12 months ago could be feeling a little sorry for themselves right now.

I really enjoy seeing how other countries solve their "financial literacy" problems.


----------



## basilio (23 November 2008)

Why are we getting into you Gordon? Hmnnn something to do with short and long memories and burnt fingers. Unfortunately much of what you say sounds exactly like  the hucksterism that  has ripped off thousands and thousands of people. 

On the property side we now have had plenty of "get rich quick" property schemes which have been based on what is effectively pyramid selling of overpriced properties, highly expensive "courses" and white shoe salesman from Queensland. 
On the share side we have memories of Bernie Cornfield "Do you sincerely want to be rich",  insurance companies with  savings plans/super plans that just ripped you off in fees and lying marketing and then the financial advisers that have  encouraged people into debt to purchase shares so that their commissions would be that much bigger. And don't even think about the  BNBs, Alcos and other finance groups.
On the human development side most people with a critical mind have seen through the BS of The Secret and similar programs. Promoting it in this forum is possibly seen as a bit of an insult to a generally thoughtful group of people.

And finally do you think that adopting the Gordon Gecko persona  is a good look? The events on Wall Street in the 80s were criminal, shameful and destroyed billions of dollars  and many people lives - with the very small exception of course of the Gecko look alikes. It has only been exceeded by the  last 6-7 years of financial illiteracy on WS.

Gordon you may have something valuable to say. But from what I have seen so far it all looks and sounds like the hucksterism that inevitably collapses destroying the lives of thousands of little people.


----------



## Naked shorts (23 November 2008)

basilio said:


> Why are we getting into you Gordon? Hmnnn something to do with short and long memories and burnt fingers. Unfortunately much of what you say sounds exactly like  the hucksterism that  has ripped off thousands and thousands of people.
> 
> On the property side we now have had plenty of "get rich quick" property schemes which have been based on what is effectively pyramid selling of overpriced properties, highly expensive "courses" and white shoe salesman from Queensland.
> On the share side we have memories of Bernie Cornfield "Do you sincerely want to be rich",  insurance companies with  savings plans/super plans that just ripped you off in fees and lying marketing and then the financial advisers that have  encouraged people into debt to purchase shares so that their commissions would be that much bigger. And don't even think about the  BNBs, Alcos and other finance groups.
> ...




Excellent post. I once saw an interview with Michael Douglas where he said that when ever he was out at dinner (or whatever), he would get fund managers and bankers come up to him and tell him, he is the reason why they are in the business.


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## chops_a_must (23 November 2008)

Naked shorts said:


> Excellent post. I once saw an interview with Michael Douglas where he said that when ever he was out at dinner (or whatever), he would get fund managers and bankers come up to him and tell him, he is the reason why they are in the business.




Yep, it's unreal how many people somehow take the completely wrong message from that movie...


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## Morpheus (5 December 2009)

GREED, or SELFISHNESS, is infantile. A newborn is inherently selfish as this it what its genes tell it has to be in order to survive. Once we reach the age when we can understand language we are then taught by our mothers “to share”. Now we have progressed beyond the gene to the meme, a self-replicating idea or concept, and the essence of being human.

I guess what you are alluding to with the term "financial literacy" is the ability to do mathematics. Then let’s do some maths.

There are ten meals at a table and there are ten hungry people that NEED one meal apiece in order to survive. If GREED is good and you therefore decide that you WANT four meals, then three other people at the table are going to miss out. It is entirely irrelevant that the other nine people at the table can do the math and work out that nine into six simply does not go, being “financially literate” does not create three more meals out of thin air. The resources are FINITE.

Now you would argue that those who are missing out do so because of their ignorance of mathematics or “financial literacy”, but if they are “financially literate” then they can not only own their house, but have several others that they can be renting out. Does this mean that if everyone is “financially literate” they can all own several houses? Of course not, who is then going to be renting out those houses? The simple fact of your so-called euphemism for selfish greed, “financial literacy”, is that it will ALWAYS impoverish many for the benefit of but a few. Your argument though is that those in poverty somehow DESERVE to be impoverished because they do not demonstrate unmitigated GREED, that they DESERVE poverty because they choose to THINK rather than be “educated”, or brain washed if you prefer, into believing that if we are all greedy it will work out best for everyone.

Maybe you should consider how well GREED worked out for Nicholas Romonov and the Russian aristocracy in 1917 or for Louis XVI and the French aristocracy in the late 18th century. Truly, the only WISDOM you have demonstrated is the concealment of your identity with that of an alias derived from a fictional movie character. This may actually allow you to keep your head for a little longer. If you truly believe that “GREED IS GOOD” then in keeping with the fictional movie character theme, let me quote Morpheus from “The Matrix” and tell you “you’ve een living in a dream world Neo”.


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