# Crocodile Hunter Killed by Stingray



## Stinger (4 September 2006)

THE Crocodile Man, Steve Irwin, is dead.

He was killed in a freak accident in Cairns, police sources said. It is understood he was killed by a sting-ray barb that went through his chest.

He was swimming off the Low Isles at Port Douglas filming an underwater documentary and that's when it occured. 

Ambulance officers confirmed they attended a reef fatality this morning at Batt Reef off Port Douglas. 

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20349888-2,00.html


----------



## tech/a (4 September 2006)

Krickey!!!!

That Bastard was a real character!!!
True life is stranger than fiction!


----------



## stink (4 September 2006)

Yep very sad,

A true tragedy, i suppose he lost his life doing what he loved.


----------



## Rafa (4 September 2006)

Stinger.... its ironic that you broke the news...!  

But on a serious note, it is sad to hear. 
He did die doing what he does best tho!


----------



## Prospector (4 September 2006)

Yes, a real tragedy for his very young family.  I hope they take the time out to mourn their loss and not feel the need to front the media.

 I also heard it may have been one of those Irikiri (sp?) jellyfish that may have touched him.


----------



## Ants (4 September 2006)

The world truly is poorer now. Whata LEGEND.


----------



## sandik17 (4 September 2006)

Prospector said:
			
		

> may have been one of those Irikiri (sp?) jellyfish that may have touched him.




no, it was a stingray barb.  His family are flying to Cairns this afternoon. 
Very sad.    He was a character, but he put his money where his mouth was...poured a lot of money into good things...eg the environment


----------



## TheFlash (4 September 2006)

Very sad news... and what a way to go out! I'll miss him


----------



## Happy (4 September 2006)

Sad day, and bit close to dads day.

Kids will have hell of a childhood, regardless if Steve did what he loved.
Hope they grow up fast and strong.

Not too appropriate here, but spare a thought for your closest family before you engage in dangerous activities you love.


----------



## wayneL (4 September 2006)

Terrible news.  

A true character and a great Australian ambassador. Apart from echoing the above posts, I'm speechless.


----------



## wayneL (4 September 2006)

Steve was much loved judging by the responses on news.com

http://www.news.com.au/comments/0,23600,20349888-2,00.html

926 messages so far. <edit> now over 1,000

I've heard a few people critisize him in the past. I've never copped it. I think he was a great man, not just as a character, but for his work.


----------



## scsl (4 September 2006)

Oh I still can't believe that he's gone...

Steve Irwin, RIP mate.


----------



## bunyip (4 September 2006)

I have to admit that Irwin just about drove me nuts with his silly over the top mannerisms and antics and voice he bunged on.
In fact he irritated me so much that I wouldn't watch him on TV, even though I love wildlife shows.

But he was probably a good bloke, he definitely had a positive effect on the lives of many people, did great service to the tourist industry, made a significant contribution to conservation and the Queensland and Australian economies etc etc.

Very sad for his family. Little three year old boy who will barely remember his Dad. Little daughter who will grow up fatherless.

Considering some of the crazy risks he took, I'm surprised he wasn't taken out years ago by a croc or a snake or whatever. 

Bunyip


----------



## Novski (4 September 2006)

Don't mean to overshadow the trajedy that has occurred at all,... but just mention the danger of stingrays at this moment, as most people seem to be totally unaware of how lethal they are as i was. 

I was stung by one in Vanuatu last year in my ankle while just walking in waist high water. I didn't see it because of darker coloured sand, weeds and shells and acidentally stepped on its wing it seems, so it struck me around the ankle with its barb under the tail. It felt like a slap, and suddenly, the pain was excruciating. Their venom targets the nervous system and has a necrotic effect. It's so painful because the nervous system is how we feel pain, so what does the venom do.. it goes straight to the nerves. 

You can understand, it's how it protects itself from its dangerous prey in the sea. The morphine helped. Couldn't walk for about 2 weeks and went through a range of symptoms for a 2 months.

It shouldn't really be called a sting because the barb goes in like a knife. I think it's misleading when it's called a sting. I can't believe they show them on travel shows with people walking around them. If you acidentally trod on it or if it senses it's in danger it could strike. 

I have since heard of stingray stories and one other actually who died from a sting in the chest. It sends the nervous system haywirer basically and i don't think it has to hit the heart to kill you. If it ruins the nerve funtion around the heart and the heart can't beat rythmically, it's over.

I didn't research it that much but i did some on the internet after my episode. I'm paranoid now if the water isn't clear and i can't see through it.

Condolences to the Family.

Novski


----------



## warney (4 September 2006)

he lived the life of ten men,hyperactive and passionate.from the first time i saw his antics i knew we were in for anything but a typical ride.loved your work steve.


----------



## warney (4 September 2006)

Novski said:
			
		

> I'm paranoid now if the water isn't clear and i can't see through it.




they bury themselves in the sand,no matter how clear it is the chances of spotting them stationary is slim.


----------



## Prospector (4 September 2006)

I do feel very sorry for his family.  

Bunyip I hear what you are saying too.

While he died doing what he loved, I think it is a shame that what he loved was so very risky and dangerous.  Maybe doing what you love (which is also very risky) and having a young family are incompatible?

I also heard today that a marine expert said that stingrays were not aggressive, and will not attack unless they are provoked.

It is only now that as my kids reach adulthood that I am looking to do things like travel to Egypt, because I know that if something happens to me now, the kids will be OK?  Just a thought.


----------



## Smurf1976 (4 September 2006)

Not sure if it's true but I heard on the radio that his wife doesn't even know about his death yet. They said she is bushwalking near Cradle Mountain (Tasmania) and as such wouldn't be aware that anything had happened to him.

Not sure of the accuracy or otherwise of this report.

I wan't a fan, never even seen the TV program (not once...) but from what I know he was a decent bloke and did quite a bit of good. A tragic loss...


----------



## Stinger (4 September 2006)

Tasmanian police have now informed her of Steve's death. Probably the last thing she was expecting


----------



## 2020hindsight (4 September 2006)

I believe I know some healing words that can be told to kids that age at a time like this - maybe his oldest anyway - they go something like this ....
"There will I know be moments of sadness and great loss... 
but if you can put beside these the good times you have had together -
I am sure, 
that you will find 
that you have gained
more
than you can ever lose."
Never truer than in his case I'm sure.


----------



## 2020hindsight (4 September 2006)

the man was so invincible – like some foolhardy god
and few of us would dare to make the footprints that he trod
like Crocodile Dundee my friend devoid of script or spin,
cos charging bogs was what he did, and said to life “bog in”.
and courage even senseless has the power to hypnotise
and if he ever felt fear , then I sure would empathise
so crazy so ironic that he had to go this way
with his luck so cruelly cronic, -  this chance meeting  with this ray.


----------



## dj_420 (4 September 2006)

Great Australian,
had a fantastic show, steve did a huge amount for raising awareness of nature and conservation efforts etc.

i think all australians will feel a loss as we have lost a great aussie "icon" someone who was recognised internationally for his comedy, good nature and overall infectious enthusiasm for wildlife and his efforts to preserve it.


----------



## 2020hindsight (4 September 2006)

Channel 2 quick - "Enough Rope"


----------



## bunyip (4 September 2006)

Novski said:
			
		

> Don't mean to overshadow the trajedy that has occurred at all,... but just mention the danger of stingrays at this moment, as most people seem to be totally unaware of how lethal they are as i was.
> 
> I was stung by one in Vanuatu last year in my ankle while just walking in waist high water. I didn't see it because of darker coloured sand, weeds and shells and acidentally stepped on its wing it seems, so it struck me around the ankle with its barb under the tail. It felt like a slap, and suddenly, the pain was excruciating. Their venom targets the nervous system and has a necrotic effect. It's so painful because the nervous system is how we feel pain, so what does the venom do.. it goes straight to the nerves.
> 
> ...




You were damned lucky the stingray didn't put you down for the full count, like happened to crazy Steve. I knew they could inflict a nasty wound but didn't realise they were venomous.

I've been expecting Steve to come to an unpleasant end for some time, but I never expected the famed croc hunter to get hunted down by a stingray of all things.
I thought he might go out in a blaze of glory, dragged into the water by a 20 foot croc and yelling "CRIKEY" as the croc rolled him over and over and finally drowned him.
He wasn't my favourite bloke but I really do feel sorry for him and in particular those close to him.

Over the years I've had a few close calls myself when I inadvertently got up close and personal with dangerous animals like wild pigs and deadly snakes.
It sure does get the old adrenalin flowing. Maybe that's why Steve loved doing it.

Bunyip


----------



## Fugazi (4 September 2006)

2020hindsight said:
			
		

> Channel 2 quick - "Enough Rope"




What a classic. "Dinner with Clinton? I was busy that day!" He really was an entertainer on top of everything else.

Steve Irwin's programs were one in a long list of things that made me choose Queensland over Florida when I decided I wasn't going to bring my family up in London.

Whether you loved him or he drove you crazy (I personally thought he was hysterical), he got the wonder & beauty of Australia (& especially QLD) out to the rest of the world in the biggest way.


----------



## Bobby (4 September 2006)

Goodbye Steve,

Wish I could turn back time for you, just don't know how. 

Gee you will be missed, but never forgotten.

Bob.


----------



## websman (4 September 2006)

Steve Irwin was a legend here in America.  God bless you Steve...


----------



## 2020hindsight (4 September 2006)

websman said:
			
		

> Steve Irwin was a legend here in America.  God bless you Steve...



Websman - keep an eye on "http://www.abc.net.au/vod/entertainment/" - this is of course the Australian Broadcasting Corporation as against your abc - go to the show "enough rope" - they will I am sure be sufficiently organised in a day or so to let you download Steve being interviewed - a repeat interview that has just gone to air. They make the point that he was bigger in USA than in AUS - he must have been a giant over there then  and if he wasn't a legend b4, he sure is now.


----------



## The Barbarian Investor (4 September 2006)

Novski said:
			
		

> Don't mean to overshadow the trajedy that has occurred at all,... but just mention the danger of stingrays at this moment, as most people seem to be totally unaware of how lethal they are as i was.
> 
> I was stung by one in Vanuatu last year in my ankle while just walking in waist high water. I didn't see it because of darker coloured sand, weeds and shells and acidentally stepped on its wing it seems, so it struck me around the ankle with its barb under the tail. It felt like a slap, and suddenly, the pain was excruciating. Their venom targets the nervous system and has a necrotic effect. It's so painful because the nervous system is how we feel pain, so what does the venom do.. it goes straight to the nerves.
> 
> ...




I had a friend speared by a barb of a stingray in his calf when we were younger and out spearfishing; I always thought that the barb (which is like a jaggered spear) can cause infection and the barbs contain a poison that like many salt water animals (bull routers etc) that is protein based (hot water helps break it down), we used hot coffee etc..

When I heard this story, from a guy at work who is a joker, I didn't believe it, later I hear the radio..  Wow, STILL couldn't believe it, I thought a Crock or a Snake would eventually get him..You can but feel for his wife and young family.


----------



## tarnor (5 September 2006)

I didn't really like the guy much either...

Some of the shows were the most stupid and obvious setups.. thought he was a bit of an embarrassment to us..  But he did an awful lot for our tourism and was a great entertainer for kids and stuff.. so who knows.. Terrible loss for the young family a real tragedy..

I think he wouldn't have minded going out that way, although obviously preferably at a later date when he wasn't leaving a young family behind.

Can imagine his response would have been something like  "crikey only a sting ray" .


----------



## doctorj (5 September 2006)

I too originally thought it to be a joke after receiving news of it via email from the office prankster.  I wasn't his biggest fan (you can only be asked to say "crickey" by American backpackers so often) but he certainly had a big heart, loved his family, country and animals.  He lived his dream and that's something for us all to admire and aspire to.

The legacy of an unexpected death is the reminder to us all to live each day to its fullest and to have no regrets.


----------



## Lyehopper (5 September 2006)

Tragic!.... I found him very intertaining.  He was a good guy and a devoted family man.  I feel very badly for his wife and kids. 

I doubt he even thought he was in any real danger.  I've seen divers swim with stingrays on TV before.... they aren't usually agressive.  That thing drove it's tail spike under his rib cage and punctured his heart, he died quickly.... I'll bet he's the only human to ever be killed this particular way by a stingray.


----------



## dubiousinfo (5 September 2006)

Lyehopper said:
			
		

> That thing drove it's tail spike under his rib cage and punctured his heart, he died quickly.... I'll bet he's the only human to ever be killed this particular way by a stingray.





I remember reading some years ago of a fisherman who hooked one on his line & when he pulled one into the boat, the ray got him in the chest also & killed him.


----------



## Mouse (5 September 2006)

Hi,

This is really sad.  My heart goes out to his family.  As a wildlife carer in Queensland I didn't actually know Steve personally but a lot of my friends did.  One of the things that came up in conversation with them last night was that one of Steves goals was to re-vegetate Australia, so instead of sending flowers we are each going to plant a native tree to show how much we appreciate what he did.

Watching Andrew Dentons show last night I can't help thinking... if there really is a God, Steve is probably already in his ear about what has to be done to help the environment.  Can you imagine Steve Irwin appearing at the Pearly Gates?  Look out God, here he comes!

cheers
Mouse


----------



## noirua (5 September 2006)

tarnor said:
			
		

> I didn't really like the guy much either...
> 
> Some of the shows were the most stupid and obvious setups.. thought he was a bit of an embarrassment to us..  .




How wrong you are tarnor, how wrong you are!


----------



## 2020hindsight (5 September 2006)

Mouse said:
			
		

> ...... if there really is a God, Steve is probably already in his ear about what has to be done to help the environment....



How right you are mouse  how right you are


----------



## tarnor (5 September 2006)

well i was definately wrong about him being an embarrassment the news is being reported all over the world.. pretty amazing response..

but the shows were just rediculous... ie walking around in the desert trying to find some obscure form of wildlife when he happens to fall over and tumble all the way down a sand dune and just happens to roll next to the rare species he was looking for...  Or another where his wife accidentally falls out of a dingy in a croc infested river after he just talks up how dangerous it would be if someone fell in..  Annoyed me because he try to come off all genuine but thats entertainment i guess..Anyway obviously the kids liked it,  but i always thougth he was kinda lame..  but thats not really the issue .. very sad indeed


----------



## 2020hindsight (5 September 2006)

Fugazi said:
			
		

> What a classic. ..I personally thought he was hysterical



I agree - Did you like the story of his pride in his infant daughter (younger then) when she insisted on finishing her lullaby to the python - despite the fact that it had bitten her in the lip and then no the nose LOL.  
What about the acres of land he has bought and given back to the native inhabitants.   
What a legacy he has left to the world - what a pedigree he has given his kids.  What a loss.  
To say nothing of the mountains of literature and theories that will be rewritten... for instance :-
"To a snake" By Steve Irwin.  
Wee sleekit cowrin timrous beastie - oooh w'as the trubel in thy breastie - I would be lathe to run and chase thee with bickrin pattel"  etc


----------



## Prospector (5 September 2006)

Hm, if a snake bit my child on the lip I think maybe I would have had some medical attention.  If his intention was to show his children not to be afraid of wildlife, then that is the ultimate irony, isn't it.  Because it is normal for us to be afraid of it - nature's way of protecting us methinks.

I just find it ironic that his vision was to teach about about the beauty of wildlife and to respect it, yet he did some very non-conservationist things in order to get the crowds attention, and in the end it was maybe his possible lack of respect shown to wildlife that cost him his life, and his children their father.

To many he is a hero; but children dont look at their dad's as heroes for what they do, they are hero's to their kids just because they are 'Dad'.  

I appreciate that he has also spent a lot of money in reclaiming land etc etc, but well, I guess I just see his death as a tragic loss to those kids and didnt need to happen.


----------



## noirua (5 September 2006)

Prospector said:
			
		

> Hm, if a snake bit my child on the lip I think maybe I would have had some medical attention.  If his intention was to show his children not to be afraid of wildlife, then that is the ultimate irony, isn't it.  Because it is normal for us to be afraid of it - nature's way of protecting us methinks.
> 
> I just find it ironic that his vision was to teach about about the beauty of wildlife and to respect it, yet he did some very non-conservationist things in order to get the crowds attention, and in the end it was maybe his possible lack of respect shown to wildlife that cost him his life, and his children their father.
> 
> ...




I understand that the stingray ( bull ray, about 1 metre across and weighing about 100kg ) attack was filmed, so, at some stage we may know what really happened. So far, it is known that the stingray probably felt threatened, with the cameraman in front and Steve Irwin alongside. It stopped and suddenly went into a defensive position and he was caught with no way of manouvering, as the stingray waved its spike.


----------



## 2020hindsight (5 September 2006)

this renegade this khaki king this character this kid
this principled post pioneer to do the things he did
the forests full of armbands black and sad koala bears
salt water crocs are weeping and they're proper salty tears
enormously magnanimous sincere and fun and warm
but not a hint of normalcy and not a hint of "Norm"
his 9 lives stretched to 99, his kids his loving wife
he gave his heart his reckless soul and (such a shame) his life.


----------



## dubiousinfo (5 September 2006)

Prospector said:
			
		

> Hm, if a snake bit my child on the lip I think maybe I would have had some medical attention.  If his intention was to show his children not to be afraid of wildlife, then that is the ultimate irony, isn't it.  Because it is normal for us to be afraid of it - nature's way of protecting us methinks.
> 
> I just find it ironic that his vision was to teach about about the beauty of wildlife and to respect it, yet he did some very non-conservationist things in order to get the crowds attention, and in the end it was maybe his possible lack of respect shown to wildlife that cost him his life, and his children their father.
> 
> ...





What sort of world would we have if nobody took any risks & everybody wrapped themseves in cotton wool trying to avoid accidents?

We take a risk every time we get into a car. 2000 Australians die on the roads every year & each one of those have family.

Great things are only achieved when people take risks.


----------



## Novski (5 September 2006)

dubiousinfo said:
			
		

> I remember reading some years ago of a fisherman who hooked one on his line & when he pulled one into the boat, the ray got him in the chest also & killed him.




Hi dubious, 

That sounds like the same story a lady told me about in Vanuatu a couple of days after the bugger got me. I couldn't do anything much or even go in the water anymore, because as The Barbarian Investor mentioned the venom increases the chances of infection. I was also taking drugs to prevent infection and managed to avoid it.

The Stingray may well be non aggressive just like certain snakes etc, but if they feel threatened by acidentally stepping on one or even bumping it on the side of your leg, its protective response is to strike with its barb and the results are fairly extreme. It doesn't have to be aggressive, it just has to feel threatened and often by accident.

Novski


----------



## noirua (5 September 2006)

The life of Steve Irwin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Irwin


----------



## StockyBailx (5 September 2006)

Couldn't of happened to a nicer, more fiar dinkcum bloke? God bless you Steve. fairwell & Gods speed. I'll see ya on the other side!


----------



## Market Cap (5 September 2006)

An absolute tragedy. I was in US for almost two years and everyone in US, and I mean everyone, knew and loved Steve Irwin - even though hardly anyone knew who our prime minister was. He was a great man who cared for the environment and who was and still will be one of the greatest ambassador for Australia.


----------



## 2020hindsight (5 September 2006)

Market Cap said:
			
		

> .. and everyone in US, ..knew and loved Steve Irwin - even though hardly anyone knew who our prime minister was...



  Remind me MC,   who is our PM again?    And I can't recall the last PM /leader who could claim to have been loved.  Maybe Parkes? Gov Phillip maybe? 
Thinking about it, Steve would've made a great Aus President.   "Crikey, lets have a week off and call it ...errr..."bushwalking week"!! - And after that we'll have a week off and call it "Crocodile cuddling week",  and after that ...  ".  I would bet on one thing - if you'd had a premonition, and told him to take it easy - he'd have given you a grin, and told you to go back to your knitting, while he got on with his adventuring.


----------



## bunyip (6 September 2006)

Rudd tells Germaine Greer to shut up
Wednesday Sep 6 10:22 AEST
Feminist Germaine Greer should keep her thoughts about the death of Steve Irwin to herself, Labor foreign affairs spokesman Kevin Rudd says.

In an article in British newspaper The Guardian, Ms Greer said that the animal world had finally taken revenge on Irwin for causing stress to the animals he handled.

"I think Germaine Greer should just stick a sock in it," Mr Rudd told reporters in Canberra.

"You have got a grieving mother, you have got a couple of grieving young kids and a grieving nation and what to you get from Germaine Greer? You get a bucket load of politically correct pap - it's just nonsense.

"Steve Irwin was a nature conservationist, an animal conservationist and made a huge contribution to the preservation of wildlife world wide.

"And what do we get from Germaine Greer? some gratuitous, politically correct claptrap. She should put a sock in it," he said.

Greer said she had "not much sympathy" for Irwin if he was grappling with the stingray that killed him on the Great Barrier Reef.

Those on the boat with Irwin say he was not in any way harassing the stringray when it lashed out at him as he swan over it.

But The Guardian quoted Greer as saying: "As a Melbourne boy, Irwin should have had a healthy respect for stingrays, which are actually commoner and bigger in southern waters than they are near Port Douglas."

She described Irwin's behaviour as "bizarre", noting the famed incident when he held his baby son while feeding a crocodile during a show at his Australia Zoo on the Sunshine Coast.

"The whole spectacle was revolting," Greer said.

"The crocodile would rather have been anywhere else and the chicken had a grim life too, but that's entertainment at Australia Zoo.

"The animal world has finally taken its revenge on Irwin, but probably not before a whole generation of kids in shorts seven sizes too small has learned to shout in the ears of animals with hearing ten times more acute than theirs, determined to become millionaire animal-loving zoo-owners in their turn."

Police said footage of the incident showed Irwin in no way harassed or provoked the stingray.


----------



## wayneL (6 September 2006)

Ms Bitter & Twisted should direct her poisonous invective to genuine areas of animal abuse, of which there are many.

Bad Show GG.

I agree with Rudd.


----------



## twojacks28 (6 September 2006)

im not sure if anyone has mentioned this but the day he died i got 6 sms at the same time about a stevin irwin the message was a joke but i got it by 6 people at the same time and when i relied they all said they did not send me a message. the joke was: Steve Irwin should of wore sunscreen to kepp out the rays. did anyone else get this?


----------



## tasmanian (6 September 2006)

yeah a few people i was working with got it that day and the next.sick really


----------



## twojacks28 (6 September 2006)

i know it really is disturbing. i cant believe people cant wait weeks or months until they start these stupid jokes and the criticism.


----------



## Bronte (6 September 2006)

Very Sad.


----------



## 2020hindsight (6 September 2006)

I guess we could all speculate on the impact of Germaine's passing - maybe she feels that she might as well get some publicity piggy-backing on the news that a real hero has has some bad luck. - like incredibly sad and terminally bad luck .

Germaine - go back to your acid books - give me the hilarity of a "steve irwin" in full flight ANY TIME , - sadly now fitted out with angels wings. :engel:


----------



## 2020hindsight (6 September 2006)

2020hindsight said:
			
		

> I guess we could all speculate on the impact of Germaine's passing :



Germaine - I dare you to get into one of those enclosures that contain Steve's beloved crocodiles and say that !!


----------



## Julia (6 September 2006)

It's interesting how someone's death makes such a difference to the way comments about them are viewed.

Had Germaine Greer made her remarks while Steve Irwin was still alive and well, I doubt that anyone would have made any sort of fuss about it.

She's entitled to her opinion.  Her timing was tasteless.  I just find it rather odd that when someone dies (and especially someone whose life involved doing very dangerous things) he ipso facto becomes a complete saint who may not be criticised in any way at all.

Have a go at Germaine Greer for her timing and insensitivity by all means.
But I don't see the need to  vilify her as a person for expressing her opinion about someone.

Julia


----------



## warney (6 September 2006)

Julia said:
			
		

> It's interesting how someone's death makes such a difference to the way comments about them are viewed.
> 
> Had Germaine Greer made her remarks while Steve Irwin was still alive and well, I doubt that anyone would have made any sort of fuss about it.
> 
> ...



had she made the comments while he was still alive she wouldnt have gotten any press coverage,she is attention grabbing. in the long term this has got to bad for her(reminds me of mundines 9/11 comment) she also said on TV tonight that he tormented animals.....well i think the animals lost a great voice in irwin. good luck to her future prospects in australia and the word is RESPECT


----------



## 2020hindsight (7 September 2006)

Julia said:
			
		

> ....Have a go at Germaine Greer for her timing and insensitivity by all means. But I don't see the need to  vilify her as a person for expressing her opinion about someone.



Like - as if you can reason with Germaine - like as if you can get a word in edgewise lol.  Nothing against you J, but I disagree with you on the rights of Germaine to express her lopsided opinion on his contribution to nature - probably 1,000,000 times that of the average mortal.  As for the timing,  I'd prefer that she expressed them in about 20 years - better still postumously.

This man was such a teddy bear - yet such devoted ties
to women that he loved sincere  - and now such sad goodbyes
and "others" who for reasons known to only them and bhuddha
would choose to find some fault, some flaw- 
where he couldda, wouldda, shouldda.

Enough that he scored nature's barbs, enough that he has died
Enough that half the world observes, and half of them have cried
But no, some "lady" (queen of bores), she wants the final say
Go Go Germaine - the floor is yours,  ... we may just turn away.

"Surely God would not have created such a being as (this) man... to exist only for a day ! No, no, (this ) man was made for immortality.
Abe Lincoln 1809 - 1865 
(this) added by 2020


----------



## 2020hindsight (7 September 2006)

Another in the same vein ..."A man has only one way of being immortal on this earth - he has to forget he is mortal" - Jean Giraudoux    kinda fits Steve Irwin and his lifestyle I suspect.

Here's another one (by way of contrast) "when I die I shall be content to vanish into nothingness... I do not believe in immortality, and have no desire for it"  H L Menchen.   .... HL Menchen ??? whoever heard of him lol.  Probably some wuss!!  Obviously he's never wrestled with crocs and stuff!!!   Probably wet his pants lol.  Probably never worn khaki - or seen a snake - in his life !!!  Probably sits at home with his mum knitting !!!  Or reading Germaine Greer  

Gee Steve, but you'd have been one hellova drinking companion - as if any of us could have kept up with you.


----------



## websman (7 September 2006)

It takes a cold hearted person to speak about Steve Irwin the way this Germaine character has... I believe Mr Irwins family and friends have enough to deal with without some loser badmouthing him.  

This is just plain wrong and sick.  


My condolences go out to Mrs. Irwin and the rest of the family.  We'll be praying for you back here in the U.S.


----------



## TimmyC (7 September 2006)

He did great things for conservation, its just a pity he had to go this way


----------



## Blitzed (7 September 2006)

Julia said:
			
		

> It's interesting how someone's death makes such a difference to the way comments about them are viewed.
> 
> Had Germaine Greer made her remarks while Steve Irwin was still alive and well, I doubt that anyone would have made any sort of fuss about it.
> 
> ...




I totally agree Julia.......sometimes I think it's more about the media getting ratings and $$$'s than the person, on Monday (when he died) they showed him with his baby son and the croc.....then they showed an upset woman saying that "he should get all he deserves"...I mean come on....how cruel was this to that woman? It happened years ago but they had to bring it up. Now they are all sucking up, maybe they and all of the people that admired him in Australia should have given him more credit when he was alive.
I did notice he and his family seemed so much in love and for that alone he was a good guy.


----------



## greggy (7 September 2006)

I agree that people are entitled to their own opinions, but I also believe thatpeople can also disagree with the opinions of others, especially when they are as tasteless as Greer's comments.  Irwin's family is already suffering enough, the last thing they need is comments that are totally unsympathetic and incorrect.  But maybe Greer made these comments to regain some of the spotlight.  I think she is well past her use by date.


----------



## Julia (7 September 2006)

An extract from today's Crikey.com.

Quadrant editor PP McGuinness writes:



Poor old Germaine. She is getting the usual quota of abuse for dissenting about the posthumous praise being heaped on Steve Irwin. But as is usual with Germaine, despite her looniness and contrarianism, there is a nugget of good sense and high intelligence buried in her verbiage. 

Of course Irwin took silly risks with the wild animals with which he entertained silly people. Of course wild life is always dangerous, and accidents are inevitable if you get too close to it. Animals in the wild are not cuddly or well-intentioned to human beings - if they are big enough they want to eat us, if not, they don't want to know us. And it is true that Irwin provoked and annoyed animals to provide entertainment for onlookers.

However, the greatest danger in dealing with such beasts is to get too confident and assured that you know what you are doing. The real story of Irwin and the stingray is that he got careless. It is a great pity that he came to grief - he was a harmless entertainer - but, except for his family, hardly a tragedy. He knew (or should have known) the risks, and he took them knowingly. In the process he made a great deal of money - and good luck to him.

The most sensible comment so far has come from John Wamsley, who pointed out once again that the real answer to preserving Australian wildlife and environment is to put a market value on it - like charging the greenies and people like Irwin for their self-indulgence, or charging those who want to collect Australian fauna. If you want to save the wilderness, buy it rather than appointing yourself a high priest with privileged access.

But Germs has a point, and should not be shouted down simply because she is not toeing the conformist line. Personally, I much prefer to Irwin's David Attenborough's docos about the environment and the fauna. But I'd be willing to bet that there is a degree of exploitation there also.

___________

I'm not personally making any comment about Steven Irwin.
I just can't help wondering if the comments made by GG had come from, e.g. someone from the RSPCA who for very good reasons dislikes the idea of wild animals being kept in zoos etc, there would have been quite such an outraged reaction?

Julia


----------



## visual (7 September 2006)

Julia,
I think that G G comments are being interpreted as offensive  becasue they seem to have been motivated by how popular he was.If she was truly interested about the welfare of the animals that she claims he was exploiting you`d think that she would`ve commented whilst he was alive,at least he could`ve defended himself or not.

I think had her piece being published while he was still alive no one would`ve cared,this way is just too mean,


----------



## 2020hindsight (7 September 2006)

Blitzed said:
			
		

> I totally agree Julia.......sometimes I think it's more about the media getting ratings and $$$'s than the person..



Blitzed (and Julia) 
Yep, the media can and often do twist anything every which way.  They treat us like sheep.  They ewes us !!!   Baaaahht that's just because we're wrung out after a hard day's work and we're like blotting paper.  Watch the news every night - especially the commercial channels imho, (Outrage !! Outrage!!) you might as well take early membership to the bigot's club.  I just wish that Media watch was given a full hour. 

Youre right, that was pathetic footage to drag out of the archives (the lady saying he deserves everything etcetc).    Maybe they SHOULD have introduced that item ...."Here's what a lady said at the peak of one of the biggest media beatups in modern history - and this TV channel was partly responsible for it then - and also now for resurrecting it!."...    

But sometimes the news is out before they've had time to publish one half-finished headline -  those items that spread so fast that the majority of people hear about it by word of mouth. When was the last time that happened -  Ian Thorpe out of condition ?  Brad and Angelina had an argument?  I think that the media had no control over the speed that the news of Monday spread.    A true working man's hero.  I mean when Holt died it was news, but this was something else, this had passion.    

As to measuring tastelessness - Heaps of moral questions seem to be cropping up,  weak jokes, whether the gruesome footage of the attack should be available for public viewing - Apparently he himself always said "make sure you keep filming no matter what" or words to that effect.  A pioneer to the end - the first time an attack has ever been recorded on film, but is it kosher to show it?  I don't want to see it, but I would like to know how it happened. - one day - but not today and not this week. A sketch maybe, not the real thing - arms length from emotions. 

One day they might invent a bulletproof vest for divers.  Throw in a bit of kevlar maybe.  tasteless to discuss it? probably - My vote is that we celebrate the man and his wonderful magnanimous life first.
PS As for GG I dont want to go there - makes me feel unwell


----------



## 2020hindsight (7 September 2006)

Julia said:
			
		

> PP McGuinness writes:...Germs has a point, and should not be shouted down simply because she is not toeing the conformist line. ...___________
> 
> ..can't help wondering if the comments made by GG had come from, e.g. someone from the RSPCA .., there would have been quite such an outraged reaction?Julia



Julia Probably you are right - ok ok - instead of her comments being 100% tasteless, I'll modify that to 50% tastless, and 50% tactless - just plain unnecessily inflammatory while a lot of people are sad - real sad.


----------



## 2020hindsight (8 September 2006)

2020hindsight said:
			
		

> Blitzed (and Julia)
> ...  I mean when Holt died it was news, but this was something else, this had passion.



I mean he had passion .  The loss is proportional to his zest for life.  I watch his interview with Denton (again) - Im in stitches. As for Holt's disappearance, I just don't recall the word zest being mentioned.  More like his droppy eyes.  Is it be ok to joke about that event.  plenty do, - no moral questions about footage of him slinking away in a Russian submarine.  So long ago Im probably the only aussie that remembers  As for humour in general at a time like this - I take my lead from Steve.  and maybe Martin Luther :- If youre not allowed to laugh in Heavan, I don't want to go there.  or GB Shaw Life doesnt cease to be funny because people die, any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.  But you're right.  I would not like his wife or kids to read this and see it as flippancy.  My first post on this thread (way back) was what I would prefer them to read. I know, Ive been there - and those words were crafted by an aunty to my siblings and I


----------



## Stan 101 (8 September 2006)

noirua said:
			
		

> I understand that the stingray ( bull ray, about 1 metre across and weighing about 100kg ) attack was filmed, so, at some stage we may know what really happened. So far, it is known that the stingray probably felt threatened, with the cameraman in front and Steve Irwin alongside. It stopped and suddenly went into a defensive position and he was caught with no way of manouvering, as the stingray waved its spike.




From the footage I saw, the animal was actually an eagle ray... Not a bull or sting ray..Quite different characters... All very placid unless provoked or threatened...

cheers,


----------



## Mouse (8 September 2006)

Hi,

My problem with all these people coming out publicly with negative opinions about Steve Irwin, is that most of the time they have no idea of the facts.

An example, to take a quote from Julias post where she posted the quote from Crikey.com 

"The most sensible comment so far has come from John Wamsley, who pointed out once again that the real answer to preserving Australian wildlife and environment is to put a market value on it - like charging the greenies and people like Irwin for their self-indulgence, or charging those who want to collect Australian fauna. If you want to save the wilderness, buy it rather than appointing yourself a high priest with privileged access."

Steve Irwin was actually buying up land for wildlife in several countries.  Even though he was a celebrity he was a quiet achiever and did a lot that "the public" don't know about.

There's a really nice article about him buying up land here ... http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2006/09/05/irwin3_hum.html?category=animals&guid=20060905170030

But even the article doesn't mention things like how he sent crates of veterinary supplies and food as well as wildlife experts over to help out after the Tsunami.

It's a shame that the self proclaimed "experts" don't bother to find out facts before they voice their opinion.  

If 1% of the people who criticize Steve Irwin did 1% of the amount of good he did the world would be a better place.

cheers
Mouse
P.s. I'm not having a go at you Julia, just using a part of your post.


----------



## noirua (8 September 2006)

Who is Germaine Greer? - the World asks.  Turning away with a big yawn - no one wants to know.


----------



## noirua (8 September 2006)

Different types of stingray: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_ray

The following article - paragraph 23 - refers to a bull ray killing Steve Irwin: http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/TV/09/04/australia.irwin/index.html?section=cnn_topstories

Another American article: http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/2006-09-04-obit-irwin_x.htm


----------



## noirua (8 September 2006)

Jay Leno's tribute to Steve Irwin: http://update.videoegg.com/flash/fu...173454jKoLgLACZuo7Aw7YPTP&cid=/gid368/cid1173

or http://flixya.com/jay-leno-tribute-to-crocodile-hunter


----------



## 2020hindsight (8 September 2006)

noirua said:
			
		

> Different types of stingray:  the following article - paragraph ...G might say - traumatise the hell out of it!!


----------



## 2020hindsight (8 September 2006)

Lessons from the Inmates of the Ark...

teach me first steps how to count - teach me A B C
teach me M that stands for monkey, how to climb a tree
teach me bout the three small pigs , learn of wolves and Mr Bigs
play my part in playground gigs, bullies friends and me

take a tired tardy tortoise take a boasting hare 
teach me that a puffed up chest is just a bag of air 
teach me how to persevere, dawn till dusk till goal is clear
bravely face flamboyant sneer, bravely face a dare

take a slab of sleeping grizzly, take some bullhorns large
teach me when to hibernate , teach me when to charge
teach me horses flowing manes, over fields where freedom reigns
teach me Clydesdale’s willing chains pulling on a barge

as my education blossoms teach me ways of dove
teach me truth and honesty as seen from up above
teach me to out-fox the beagle, teach me to out-dove the eagle
teach me gentle teach me regal,  teach me how to love.

teach me porpoise sense of humour leaping sunlight beams
teach me antlike industry to play my part in teams
teach me canine gratitude, cute Koala attitude
longitude and latitude of gum tipped flavoured dreams

Teach me how to sing with whales, echo friendly bark
Teach me TWENTY THOUSAND tales of inmates of the ark!
let me learn to know them better, whether whale or Irish setter
MAKE EXTINCT A SILENT LETTER
... THEN,  ... I'll disembark.!!!
Sorry GG you aint the only conservationist around the traps !


----------



## Stan 101 (9 September 2006)

2020hindsight said:
			
		

> Thanks noirua as usual you prefer to enlighten than to add your slant   (but you can stop telling us - well me anyway - about snakes if you like lol)  - couldnt get the third link to work.  I noticed the first said "has barb will defend" or words to that effect.  Hek Ive done scuba diving course NAAUI etc and in the  tropics - I recall being told of the dangers of picking up cone shells (the oringinal Chandler theory) - and blue ringed octupus - fire coral - and to wear panty hose over your head to keep away the box jellyfish - and stonefish and scorpion fish etc etc - even that rays had a barb - but seriously I imagined it as a 100mm ( say) x 6mm diam (say) spike.  Did the instructor know any better - no.   He was a wseriously experienced scuba diver ( USA origin) - I dont recall being told that the bloody "barb" was a 250mm dagger.  Tell me where your average scuba diver would not have been "ambushed" by this mixture of "unexpected enemy forces"   and a simple desire to play and move on.
> or as GG might say - traumatise the hell out of it!!




What you have mentioned is utter crap. Leave the man in peace. If you want my credentials (not US) I can give you my PADI, SSI and TDI (tech) qualificacations. PM me...


----------



## 2020hindsight (9 September 2006)

Stan 101 said:
			
		

> What you have mentioned is utter crap. Leave the man in peace. If you want my credentials (not US) I can give you my PADI, SSI and TDI (tech) qualificacations. PM me...



Hek mate no offense to PADI intended.  I'm sure youve done more diving that I.  Maybe you could tell me what you were taught about rays?  I just remember it was "brief" , and I don't recall the words "possibly fatal".  Hek why hasnt the option of wetsuits with a bit of kevlar been available?. other than the obvious of cost I suppose.  
PS OR is the crap bit referring to GG and the traumatisation? maybe you didnt pick up that I disagreed with her, at least I wouldnt criticize Steve as she did on those grounds under these circumstances given his credentials with conservation


----------



## 2020hindsight (9 September 2006)

If you analyse the colours into their component bits, 
and you juggle the percentage green until the blending "fits", 
you will find the biggest share is with the redskin or the black, 
or a precious few like Stevey, - Crikey mate you had a stack.

There was a quote from somewhere that anyone who believes in racial superiority is suffereing from a pigment of the imagination.  Gotta feeling it is meant to work both ways.  But in the case of managing a green environment - the white man doesnt score too well imo.  With a few notable exceptions like Steve.


----------



## Julia (9 September 2006)

2020hindsight said:
			
		

> If you analyse the colours into their component bits,
> and you juggle the percentage green until the blending "fits",
> you will find the biggest share is with the redskin or the black,
> or a precious few like Stevey, - Crikey mate you had a stack.
> ...



Umm, how did we go from stingrays to racial superiority???

Julia


----------



## 2020hindsight (9 September 2006)

Julia said:
			
		

> Umm, how did we go from stingrays to racial superiority???Julia



Julia - It was more about the irony that the aboriginal and the red indian were much greener that the whites that followed   nothing to do with superiority in the normal sense - just in their green management skills.  And every second word Steve said involved the environment, or crocodiles, or some other green object   "It's not easy being green" as Kermit said.   Gotta feeling he was the greenest white man that I know. - and loved by all colours.
But youre right it's arguably a bit off the track.   
Last thing I want to do is dominate this lead/topic, but I'm seriously fascinated by the world reaction, as well as learning more about Steve and liking him more everywhere I look. There's a set of pollster questions on one of Noiruas websites -

_ " We are a research firm that is talking to people about Steve Irwin’s tragic death. If you have a few moments, etcetc .....Regent University 1000 Regent University Drive Virginia Beach, VA 23464 ......
1.    Did you hear about the recent death of Steve Irwin, also know as the Crocodile Hunter?        Yes    No  
......  4.  How many people have you discussed Steve Irwin’s death with?  
.........6.   How many total hours of television news coverage ...?  
7.   How many total hours have you spent reading print news about Steve Irwin ...  
8.   on the Internet getting more information about Steve Irwin since you learned of his death? 
9.   How many total hours have you spent talking to others about Steve Irwin since learning about his death?  
.........11.  Do you plan to watch or did you watch the memorial service for Steve Irwin on television?  
12.  Did you watch the Larry King television special or the Fox News television special with Greta Van Susteren on Steve Irwin on Tuesday night?  
13.  ..... a.  The media is providing too much coverage of Steve Irwin’s death.   b.  I think the media’s coverage of Steve Irwin’s plane is appropriate.      c.  Steve Irwin’s death has captivated my attention.  d.  Steve Irwin’s death was like losing my own brother.   e.  Steve Irwin is a good role model to follow.    
f.  I like Steve Irwin.   strongly agree  agree  neutral  disagree  strongly disagree  
  g.  I used to look forward to seeing Steve Irwin in the media.            
  h.  I am more interested in conservation because of Steve Irwin.            
  i.  I feel like I know Steve Irwin as a friend.            
  j.  I try to adopt Steve Irwin’s attitudes and apply them to my life            
  k.  I am well aware of the details of Steve Irwin’s life.            
  l.  I have learned more about Sting Rays as a result of Steve Irwin’s death.            
      strongly agree  agree  neutral  disagree  strongly disagree  
  m.  I consider Steve Irwin to be a hero.            
  n.  I strongly identify with Steve Irwin.            
  o.  I have regularly sought more information about Steve Irwin’s life.            
  p.  Steve Irwin has shown me values that I want to live by.            
  q.  Steve Irwin is an inspiration to me.            
  r.  My support for conservation will increase as a result of Steve Irwin’s work.   strongly agree  agree  neutral  disagree  strongly disagree  
  s.  I am a big Crocodile Hunter fan.            
  t.  I will donate to Steve Irwin's conservation organization.            
14.  Have you visited Steve Irwin’s website, the Wildlife Warriers, at wildlifewarriors.com?  
15.   Have you given a donation to Steve Irwin’s organization, the Wildlife Warriors?  
16.  Are you a member of a conservation organization?  
.....  19.   What is your cultural background?       African AmericanHispanic AmericanAsian AmericanCaucasianOther minority  
...... 22. What values do you think Steve Irwin lived by and what impact has his death had on you personally?  _  
Wowo - you reckon he had an international fan base or what.  His dad is going to try to keep the show on the road - but who else could fill those shoes.  I would fill in "yes I liked Steve Irwin", "yes I have learnt more about rays", cultural background "cosmopolite".  "I will try to adopt Steves' attitudes" - except that I'm damned if Im going anywhere near a crocodile


----------



## 2020hindsight (9 September 2006)

2020hindsight said:
			
		

> Hek mate no offense to PADI intended.   etc.



Stan 101 - You were talking about PADI  . I went to PADI website and clicked on "what's to fear" - the reply as follows:-

Q: What are the most common injuries or sicknesses associated with diving?
A: Sun burn and seasickness, both of which are preventable with over the counter preventatives. The most common injuries caused by marine life are scrapes and stings, most of which can be avoided by wearing an exposure suit, staying off the bottom and watching where you put your hands and feet.

Q: What about sharks?
A: When you’re lucky, you get to see a shark. Although incidents with sharks occur, they are very, very rare and with respect to diving, primarily involve spearfishing or feeding sharks, both of which trigger feeding behavior. Most of the time, if you see a shark it’s passing through and a relatively rare sight to enjoy.

I would still maintain that most scuba divers were a) aware that a ray has a barb, but b) not that it is potentially lethal.


----------



## noirua (11 September 2006)

Steve Irwin Tribute: http://youtube.com/watch?v=kYMzF1BljMo&mode=related&search


----------



## noirua (11 September 2006)

Steve Irwin, " my reason..." : http://youtube.com/watch?v=DwxQyhIbhAk&search=Steve Irwin


----------



## Julia (11 September 2006)

Some more letters to Crikey.com.



Leila Ismail writes: Oh dear. The people who were so deeply offended by the Steve Irwin jokes (8 September, comments) had better protect their delicate sensibilities by crawling under a rock like many of the critters Steve harassed no doubt wished they could. Satire about sad events has always been an important medium through which people try to lighten a situation and stimulate conversation on the subject. Many were similarly outraged about the September 11 jokes that began circulating – but with such a talked-about, high profile event, responses were always going to come from every quarter, including the humorous one. Crikey gave air to the full gamut of these responses, serious and not-so-serious. Sir Joh jokes started circulating before he was even lowered into the ground, and I didn't hear many complaints then. Admittedly Steve was much more likeable (and subtle), but the principle is still the same – humour is a valid part of human expression and it shouldn't be suppressed or censored. After all, plenty of jokes were made about Steve while he was still alive! It might even be claimed that Steve deliberately invited parody and humorous responses with his over-the-top Crocodile-Dundee-on-speed persona. And Germaine is right – we do tend to revere dead people without holding them up to any kind of scrutiny. Her comments were bang on – Steve did barge into animals' precious natural habitats, grab them around the throat and shove their terrified critter-faces into the nearest camera while telling the world how "deadly" and "lethal" they were. Of course I feel sad for Bindi, Bob and Terri. They lost a loved one. But let's not go overboard – Steve Irwin was a larger-than-life TV star, who often treated animals in dubious ways for entertainment value. No-one's perfect of course, and he certainly was a character (and quite possibly a good bloke)... but he wasn't a national hero. Let's not go all Beaconsfield on this situation, please. Who knows, Steve himself might have found some of those jokes funny – he certainly wasn't as precious and fragile as some Crikey (ex-) readers seem to be.

Kevin Tyerman writes: I am not quite sure why the quintessential Aussie larrikin sense of humour is deemed inappropriate when it applies to death, even that of quintessential Aussie larrikins. I did not know Steve Irwin, but can't help thinking that he would have fully appreciated the sunscreen joke. Personally, if my death is observed, I would prefer that my wake is full of jokes and laughing at my foibles and the things that I did in my life, rather than people I care about being tearful and sad. At funerals I tend to mourn for those that are left and are adversely affected by the death, rather than the person who died. This may be considered tasteless by some, but I take the view that death is inevitable, and that mourning for a person instead of appreciating who and what they were, will not bring them back and will not change the person that they were. My honest opinion of a person also does not change with their demise, and I have never really understood the attitude that considers that criticism of a person should cease on their death – to me that is hypocrisy rather than respect.

Helen Barnes writes: Please don't be swayed by sentimental idiots cancelling their subscriptions because of the jokes about Steve Irwin. What's really offensive is the absurd overreaction of the media and the saturation of news for days with a sad, but not very important, story.

Michael Jones writes: What a lot of two-year-olds you have reading Crikey, or used to have. All those subscriptions being cancelled over the Irwin thing, you'd think Crikey had put on a burlesque show or something. Sure it was tasteless and disrespectful to the family. The guy is dead, after all. The Daily Telegraph's use of the phrase "grieving nation" was also disrespectful, to the intelligence of just about anyone reading it. Cutting yourself off from every source of comment you might potentially disagree with is not very smart, though. 

Rob Lake writes: 42 years have passed, so my memory of the exact quote is almost certainly incorrect, but in 1964 when Lord Beaverbrook died, Private Eye put a very unflattering headline on their front page along the lines of: "Lord Beaverbrook is a dishonest, immoral drunkard". It was over-printed with: "We have learnt of Lord Beaverbrook's recent death. See inside for apology". Inside they apologised for their appalling lapse, saying it should have read "Lord Beaverbrook WAS a dishonest immoral..." We just cannot speak ill of the dead. It seems to me that those wailing about Crikey and what Dr Greer has written are the same lot who would wail about political correctness. How much time must elapse before we are permitted to examine the life and work of Steve Irwin? Good piece in The Spectator on Saturday but not written by an expat female Aussie, so it won't draw any fire.


Julia


----------



## noirua (13 September 2006)

Should Steve Irwin's death be shown?  http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news_detail.html?sku=384


----------



## 2020hindsight (17 September 2006)

Julia said:
			
		

> Rob Lake writes: 42 years have passed, so my memory of the exact quote is almost certainly incorrect, but in 1964 when Lord Beaverbrook died, Private Eye put a very unflattering headline on their front page along the lines of: "Lord Beaverbrook is a dishonest, immoral drunkard". It was over-printed with: "We have learnt of Lord Beaverbrook's recent death. See inside for apology". Inside they apologised for their appalling lapse, saying it should have read "Lord Beaverbrook WAS a dishonest immoral..."



Lol, Without even considering the conclusions Rob Lake goes on to draw from this, (not sure Id agree) but it's one hilarious story.    Heck if they only apologised for the fact that they had the tense wrong, you get the feeling that they didnt like him maybe?  lol :bier:
PS speaking of hilarious - so was Steves movie last night  -what a comedian. he was. (and ever will be)


----------



## cogidubnus (17 September 2006)

In all honesty who cares? You live you die. It's possible that he is still living and this is all a beat up, or perhaps he died of natural causes. Too bad people die every day.


----------



## Julia (17 September 2006)

cogidubnus said:
			
		

> In all honesty who cares? You live you die. It's possible that he is still living and this is all a beat up, or perhaps he died of natural causes. Too bad people die every day.




This post seems out of character with the sadness you expressed when telling us your wife had recently died.

Julia


----------



## noirua (19 September 2006)

A further tribute to Steve Irwin:  http://www.newbreedvets.com/


----------



## 2020hindsight (22 September 2006)

cogidubnus said:
			
		

> In all honesty who cares? You live you die. ....



Cog, you seem to be pretty depressed, and Im sorry that you've got your own set of problems. I find other quotes by you on other leads ...


			
				cogidubnus said:
			
		

> I am old fart and I do not like towns, because kids mug me when I go to the shop. They steal my money. Everyone moves quickly and noone cares about my well being. ... Big cities are for young people who can defend themselves or have lots of friends ...



HOWEVER, Can I just ask you to agree please that that little girl (Bindie Irwin) found a soft spot in that heart of yours with her speech about "her dad" who was "the best dad in the world".   
Or maybe Steve's dad who said " please don't grieve for Steve - but grieve instead for the animals - they've lost their best friend".   
Mate that hour long show was seriously unique footage with some seriously challenging concepts.    In all honesty mate - I think you will find that a big proportion of Australia cares  - and a big proprtion of the world shed tears during that show.
Sorry man, I just have to leave this thread on a slightly more positive note than your last post.


----------



## barney (22 September 2006)

2020hindsight said:
			
		

> Cog, you seem to be pretty depressed, and Im sorry that you've got your own set of problems. I find other quotes by you on other leads ...
> 
> HOWEVER, Can I just ask you to agree please that that little girl (Bindie Irwin) found a soft spot in that heart of yours with her speech about "her dad" who was "the best dad in the world".
> Or maybe Steve's dad who said " please don't grieve for Steve - but grieve instead for the animals - they've lost their best friend".
> ...





Hi 20/20 Just amplifying your comments.................Cog, sorry if life is not treating you good, but  I could give you some pretty unhappy stuff on my own behalf, but that would serve no purpose.........you HAVE to look for the "positive" to overcome whatever is troubling you.........it is hard, but if you don't, you will suffer even more; It is a actually a conscious choice on your behalf....(if you wish to discuss please PM me).................20/20  I read between the lines you are a V caring human being ............you have my respect, for what that's worth.  Cheers, Barney


----------



## pacer (22 September 2006)

Dude..get a gun or big knife..... still legal to carry a knife on your belt....for fishing...Keep a rod in the car........tossers like that are Bullies...they always back down if you pull out a bit of "balls".........I'd rather die a Man than a coward...which is what they are.....been  King Hit twice by cowards...for nothing....and will always fight to the death now......I feel alot better taking it on than waking up in the morning feeling angry....I wake up with a few bruises and go..."at least I put up a fight".... don't let ANYONE TAKE YOUR PRIDE AWAY FROM YOU!


----------



## Julia (22 September 2006)

pacer said:
			
		

> Dude..get a gun or big knife..... still legal to carry a knife on your belt....for fishing...Keep a rod in the car........tossers like that are Bullies...they always back down if you pull out a bit of "balls".........I'd rather die a Man than a coward...which is what they are.....been  King Hit twice by cowards...for nothing....and will always fight to the death now......I feel alot better taking it on than waking up in the morning feeling angry....I wake up with a few bruises and go..."at least I put up a fight".... don't let ANYONE TAKE YOUR PRIDE AWAY FROM YOU!




Pacer,
Have to say that if Cog feels physically vulnerable, then brandishing any sort of "weapon" will probably just exacerbate his problems.   Much as we may dislike the fact, it's usually just asking for trouble to do anything other than ignore and walk away from bullies.

Cog, how is that you put yourself in a position where anyone can steal from you?  Where does this happen?

Julia


----------



## barney (22 September 2006)

pacer said:
			
		

> Dude..get a gun or big knife..... still legal to carry a knife on your belt....for fishing...Keep a rod in the car........tossers like that are Bullies...they always back down if you pull out a bit of "balls".........I'd rather die a Man than a coward...which is what they are.....been  King Hit twice by cowards...for nothing....and will always fight to the death now......I feel alot better taking it on than waking up in the morning feeling angry....I wake up with a few bruises and go..."at least I put up a fight".... don't let ANYONE TAKE YOUR PRIDE AWAY FROM YOU!




Hey Pacer, Can I make the observation............You are either a) an older person (I don't think so!) ..........b) Not of "great" stature  (Don't worry.....nor am I)  ......c) Live in  an  area/suburb of "gang" attitude/mentallity.....??..............Mate, good Onya standing up to the ar***oles............ I am lucky I live in a "nice" part of the world now , but when I was younger, and  lived where "you had to watch your back" ........it wasn't easy..................PS ...I also like Bourbon.........and Beer........and Scotch........and Wine............(and a lot of stuff not related to alcohol!!), Barney.


----------



## Smurf1976 (22 September 2006)

Julia said:
			
		

> Pacer,
> Have to say that if Cog feels physically vulnerable, then brandishing any sort of "weapon" will probably just exacerbate his problems.   Much as we may dislike the fact, it's usually just asking for trouble to do anything other than ignore and walk away from bullies.



The ability to walk away is a sign of maturity as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## barney (22 September 2006)

Smurf1976 said:
			
		

> The ability to walk away is a sign of maturity as far as I'm concerned.




I agree with you in theory,  (cause I've always walked (run sometimes!!) away, but when the assailant can run twice as fast as you , you have to come up with a different "plan"...........We are often not dealing with "sensible" human beings who see "reason" with our objections/opinions ........(I once had a guy who wanted to "fight" me cause I was "looking" at him)............He was obviously drugged out......Life in the "suburbs" can be tough, and being a sensible/reasonable person does not stop you being "abused" .............Sometimes you just have to be "tougher" than the "scumbags" (I still prefer to run, but my legs don't work as well as they used to!  )


----------



## nelly (23 September 2006)

Hi Y'all
been away 4 awhile scusee....
all this mourning...'wearing black' 4 a guy u did not know is touching...
get a perspective...really...how about the kids waking up without ANY kind of family left alive...name a place...I bet u all can answer 1 of 3 places at war right now, off the top of your heads.
I do greive 4 Bindi and Terri and Bob and 4 every other family [not so well known] but I greive 4 every child left motherless, fatherless....family-less every day. And I didn't know them personally at all.
So commerate a great Aussie icon 4 what he stood 4 [really]....a good family man[which I don't know 4 sure is true] Like all the good family men who lost there lives UNDER the spotlight!
I agree with COG...mayb not 'who cares'.... but unless u had a regular beer with him at your local ever Thursday?.......pretensiousness SUCKS!...give me honest and REAL anyday.
Always Cheerful


----------



## Bobby (23 September 2006)

nelly said:
			
		

> Hi Y'all
> been away 4 awhile scusee....
> all this mourning...'wearing black' 4 a guy u did not know is touching...
> get a perspective...really...how about the kids waking up without ANY kind of family left alive...name a place...I bet u all can answer 1 of 3 places at war right now, off the top of your heads.
> ...



Nice to see you back Nelly, how goes your trading ?

Cheers Bob.


----------



## nelly (23 September 2006)

Hey Bob how goes it....my tradin is in slump right now but I c some upward swing in the future...or mayb not...hoo bloody knows?????
How has it been with u?
I hope YOUR not in greivous mourning 4 Irwin.
P.S.
People r going 2 think I'm 'artless.....after these posts...


----------



## nelly (23 September 2006)

Hellooooo anybody oot there......??????? Bob....Bob.....?????


----------



## nelly (23 September 2006)

Great!... I turn up and everyone has an early night. :cussing: .......my life story...sob...sob...









yeah right.....get real...


----------



## Bobby (23 September 2006)

nelly said:
			
		

> Hey Bob how goes it....my tradin is in slump right now but I c some upward swing in the future...or mayb not...hoo bloody knows?????
> How has it been with u?
> I hope YOUR not in greivous mourning 4 Irwin.
> P.S.
> People r going 2 think I'm 'artless.....after these posts...




Nelly, 

Alls well with me thanks, please be carful with trading at the moment .

Steve death was a loss to all, such a uncany way to get killed, why take him I ask those religious people ?  

Be Good
Bob.


----------



## pacer (23 September 2006)

Was a lad in the suburbs of South AUCKLAND..IN A BLACK AREA......if you think your area was as tough, I dare you to walk them streets......I had been bullied by all sorts since I was 5 and eventualy discovred that the bullies were insecure little people with....  an attitude!........bully them back and you'll have a mate for life!...and one that will look out for you forever!.....the toughest of bullies are only looking for ATTENTION, someone to like them, for who they are............sounds SOPPY but it's the truth..got a few mates in Suiites and some in Tattoos, that will always,  and are always, prepared to give me a hand if I need if I need  it......bullies just need attention...please dont write them all off as idiots.....blame the Parents!...then again Dont blame them....Blame no-one and get on with your life......
PS I have been in the suburbs of many mining towns and have a real understandimg of what goes on...freaky!


----------



## nelly (23 September 2006)

pacer said:
			
		

> Was a lad in the suburbs of South AUCKLAND..IN A BLACK AREA......if you think your area was as tough, I dare you to walk them streets......I had been bullied by all sorts since I was 5 and eventualy discovred that the bullies were insecure little people with....  an attitude!........bully them back and you'll have a mate for life!...and one that will look out for you forever!.....the toughest of bullies are only looking for ATTENTION, someone to like them, for who they are............sounds SOPPY but it's the truth..got a few mates in Suiites and some in Tattoos, that will always,  and are always, prepared to give me a hand if I need if I need  it......bullies just need attention...please dont write them all off as idiots.....blame the Parents!...then again Dont blame them....Blame no-one and get on with your life......
> PS I have been in the suburbs of many mining towns and have a real understandimg of what goes on...freaky!



I went 2 school in Sth Auckland....High School...c how well I learn't.....Capitilise Everything...lol
Where did u grow up Pacer?????

It wasn't that tough out there... you's were all wannabees....or should I say THEY were all W#@$er wannabees.


----------



## pacer (23 September 2006)

Yo Nelly....Pukekohe was my town, and I'd apreciate you not taking the piss out of it.....saw some rough **** and was a white member ....of a black group...all that is over and done with though...I don't associate  with them much ...anymore...I hit the shores of pardise once every 2-4 years and leave it it at that....mates are either dead or found a life... AWESOME!


----------



## nelly (23 September 2006)

pacer said:
			
		

> Yo Nelly....Pukekohe was my town, and I'd apreciate you not taking the piss out of it.....saw some rough **** and was a white member ....of a black group...all that is over and done with though...I don't associate  with them much ...anymore...I hit the shores of pardise once every 2-4 years and leave it it at that....mates are either dead or found a life... AWESOME!



'Yo' yourself....I don't ever speak like that, what is that? Americanee or wot??
I know Pukekohe...well...so careful what u say!
I am in 'net' contact with all my cuzz's there....telll me a place[might b tore down by now] and I can hook u up with someone from there......


----------



## pacer (23 September 2006)

CLICK ON THE CHAT BUTTON NEAR THE TOP RIGHT .......don't waste your time here.....it's for posts...or go to hotcopper........be there in chat soon.....cu


----------



## barney (23 September 2006)

pacer said:
			
		

> Was a lad in the suburbs of South AUCKLAND..IN A BLACK AREA......if you think your area was as tough, I dare you to walk them streets......I had been bullied by all sorts since I was 5 and eventualy discovred that the bullies were insecure little people with....  an attitude!........bully them back and you'll have a mate for life!...and one that will look out for you forever!.....the toughest of bullies are only looking for ATTENTION, someone to like them, for who they are............sounds SOPPY but it's the truth..got a few mates in Suiites and some in Tattoos, that will always,  and are always, prepared to give me a hand if I need if I need  it......bullies just need attention...please dont write them all off as idiots.....blame the Parents!...then again Dont blame them....Blame no-one and get on with your life......
> PS I have been in the suburbs of many mining towns and have a real understandimg of what goes on...freaky!




You are probably right about the "tough" neighbourhoods.........mine were more like a "walk through the Bottanical gardens" compared to yours........I agree about the 'bullies" and attention...........standard human phsycology....everybody has the deep seated disire to "BELONG"......that might be a gang.......or the local bowling club (thats more my style now days!  )
Also agree......I don't "blame" any body for anything...........until they do something, or hurt somebody that they did not have a good reason for.....even then I probably don't blame them, but I would be "unimpressed" with them as a human being.  "Bullies", like all of us, are often "victims of circumstance"......as you say......get to know them on a more personal level, and then you have the opportunity to "change" their circumstances, and maybe help them to become a more "productive" members of society..................Cheers.


----------



## nelly (23 September 2006)

barney said:
			
		

> You are probably right about the "tough" neighbourhoods.........mine were more like a "walk through the Bottanical gardens" compared to yours........I agree about the 'bullies" and attention...........standard human phsycology....everybody has the deep seated disire to "BELONG"......that might be a gang.......or the local bowling club (thats more my style now days!  )
> Also agree......I don't "blame" any body for anything...........until they do something, or hurt somebody that they did not have a good reason for.....even then I probably don't blame them, but I would be "unimpressed" with them as a human being.  "Bullies", like all of us, are often "victims of circumstance"......as you say......get to know them on a more personal level, and then you have the opportunity to "change" their circumstances, and maybe help them to become a more "productive" members of society..................Cheers.



Pa-leeze.... "I don't blame anybody"...."until they hurt somebody they had no reason too".
What r u on?
U don't wait 4 somebody 2 do u wrong...u know if they would be likely 2, and if the answer is *probably * u get the hell out of there...never 2 associate again.
R u a social worker or somebody with 2 many hearts sewn on the sleeve???
cheerful...always


----------



## barney (23 September 2006)

nelly said:
			
		

> Pa-leeze.... "I don't blame anybody"...."until they hurt somebody they had no reason too".
> What r u on?
> U don't wait 4 somebody 2 do u wrong...u know if they would be likely 2, and if the answer is *probably * u get the hell out of there...never 2 associate again.
> R u a social worker or somebody with 2 many hearts sewn on the sleeve???
> cheerful...always




Now settle down Nelly!!.........I know from your previous posts that "compassion" is not one of your strong points............but hey..........I don't "blame" you for that either  ............you're just a victim of your "own" circumstances   ......... My point is.........everyone is different........thats what makes the world interesting..........and the fact that you think I might be a social worker, I take as a compliment (even though it wasn't meant that way)..........cause Mate, when you get knocked over by a bus jay walking across "Pitt" street.......I'll probably be one of those "do gooders" who actually tries to help you!!............(and for all I know you could be an axe murderer on vacation  )..............anyway, enough of this jibberish; Bottom line; I like to give "all" people the benefit of the doubt, until they "burn" me; and then I get nasty!!.........and I'll even keep being "nice" to you (cause I reckon you're probably a lot bigger than I am ! :hide: ) Cheers, Barney. PS What "I am on" is a secret!!


----------



## 2020hindsight (23 September 2006)

apart from the fact that we're all miles off the thread here lol - maybe we should all take a leaf from Steve and learn some martial arts.  Might even come in handy if you're walking around late at night - and you run into a croc !  lol


----------



## nelly (23 September 2006)

barney said:
			
		

> Now settle down Nelly!!.........I know from your previous posts that "compassion" is not one of your strong points............but hey..........I don't "blame" you for that either ............you're just a victim of your "own" circumstances   ......... My point is.........everyone is different........thats what makes the world interesting..........and the fact that you think I might be a social worker, I take as a compliment (even though it wasn't meant that way)..........cause Mate, when you get knocked over by a bus jay walking across "Pitt" street.......I'll probably be one of those "do gooders" who actually tries to help you!!............(and for all I know you could be an axe murderer on vacation  )..............anyway, enough of this jibberish; Bottom line; I like to give "all" people the benefit of the doubt, until they "burn" me; and then I get nasty!!.........and I'll even keep being "nice" to you (cause I reckon you're probably a lot bigger than I am !  Cheers, Barney. PS What "I am on" is a secret!!




hahahehe... lomao!....thats the spirit Barney you tell me good and proper  
I agree with u on well...everything....mayb i've been burned 2 many times, I am less trusting these days...does that make me wiser? Or just reserved? I just can't handle bleeding hearts...my sister tells me i can come off mean and cold....i prefer 2 think i'm honest 2 a fault sometimes...i'm the frypan over the head sort of person just haven't got the patience for pussyfootin round 2 busy sortin my own sh#t out.
As far as compassion goes....i'm one of the most campassionate people i know.... i'm the first 2 put the hand up 4 almost anything....i'd probably bowl u over going 2 help the guy who got hit in Pitt street...  Gosh is this self promotion or what 
Cheerful [with hang over]


----------



## barney (23 September 2006)

nelly said:
			
		

> hahahehe... lomao!....thats the spirit Barney you tell me good and proper
> I agree with u on well...everything....mayb i've been burned 2 many times, I am less trusting these days...does that make me wiser? Or just reserved? I just can't handle bleeding hearts...my sister tells me i can come off mean and cold....i prefer 2 think i'm honest 2 a fault sometimes...i'm the frypan over the head sort of person just haven't got the patience for pussyfootin round 2 busy sortin my own sh#t out.
> As far as compassion goes....i'm one of the most campassionate people i know.... i'm the first 2 put the hand up 4 almost anything....i'd probably bowl u over going 2 help the guy who got hit in Pitt street...  Gosh is this self promotion or what
> Cheerful [with hang over]




Goodonya Nelly,  I knew you had to be a good bloke  (I bet you REALLY do feel sorry that Steve Irwin died as well, but don't admit it cause we don't want people to think you are going soft  

Talk about being burned..........man, have I had some doozies in my time.............but, thats the way I am ......just gotta forget it and get on with it eh!!  Gotta say, that I respect people who don't "pussy foot " around.....you know where you stand.............I like that............PS Glad you took the post in the way it was intended (a little slice of the tongue in the cheek!!    Cheers mate.   PPS I'm not a social worker..........I'm a muso .........so I also respect your "hangover" :bier: ..........


----------



## nelly (23 September 2006)

Cheers mate.....i kinda feel like this :flush: ...mayb a hair off that dog..


----------



## Sean K (23 September 2006)

Nelly, weren't you working for BHP in NW WA a little while ago? What you doin in QLD? Sorry this is all off the Crocodile lunatic.


----------



## nelly (24 September 2006)

kennas said:
			
		

> Nelly, weren't you working for BHP in NW WA a little while ago? What you doin in QLD? Sorry this is all off the Crocodile lunatic.




Hi ya Kennas...how goes it?
Nah.... that was my X. :topic  sorry folks. I've been here about 10 yrs...off n on.
So you weren't cut to pieces over his death either?


----------



## 2020hindsight (27 September 2006)

If anyone saw the interview with Terri Irwin tonight - even people who have allegedly experienced "depression" - perhaps they would like to retread their steps - pick their words more carefully - I make yet another attempt to leave this thread with a bit of dignity.


----------



## Julia (27 September 2006)

2020hindsight said:
			
		

> If anyone saw the interview with Terri Irwin tonight - even people who have allegedly experienced "depression" - perhaps they would like to retread their steps - pick their words more carefully - I make yet another attempt to leave this thread with a bit of dignity.




2020

Not having seen the interview, I have no idea what you are referring to.
Can you expand on your comments?

Julia


----------



## 2020hindsight (27 September 2006)

Julia said:
			
		

> 2020, Not having seen the interview, I have no idea what you are referring to. Can you expand on your comments?  Julia



http://ninemsn.com.au/ but be quick.
better still:-
http://ninemsn.video.msn.com/v/en-a...aunews_aunationalninenews&t=s29&mediaid=26096


----------



## nelly (27 September 2006)

2020hindsight said:
			
		

> If anyone saw the interview with Terri Irwin tonight - even people who have allegedly experienced "depression" - perhaps they would like to retread their steps - pick their words more carefully - I make yet another attempt to leave this thread with a bit of dignity.




Hi 2020...dignity?
I understand everyone identifying with Steve and Terry and Bindy and Bob, they were in your face all the time, and he was a woderful ambassador for Oz...
I think what I'm trying to say is put it in perspective, take into account his type of work, you can't say you are too shocked and surprised he died the way he did...ditto for Brock.
I respected him enormously and feel sad for the kids and Terry...but....

What about the 1000,000's of kids with no family, no home, no nothing, who wake up every day to struggle to keep themselves fed and warm, all by themselves with no one to bury their dead mothers, fathers and siblings. What about the ones who crawl off to die alone, or the ones left maimed and greivously wounded. Think of just one country right now being bombed and shot to bits, and then think of the kids and woman who are innocents in it all. And yes the fathers too.
The amount of people paying for trips to Australia Zoo, paying for flowers, all red eyed and depressed.....most of them wouldn't think of sponsoring a kid in a third world country or supporting Amnesty International or funding a cot programme over in Botswana.
You don't even have to look that far, try our own back-yard. I'm sure you read the news papers, people die tragically all the time. 
All I'm saying is get a perspective.

So if you mean by 'dignity' that we shouldn't post how we feel about this and only write sob sob posts on this subject maybe you should have posted a thread titled "Everyone who wants to talk about their allegedly sad feelings on Steve Irwin....." Then you wouldn't have to read this.

Cheerful


----------



## visual (27 September 2006)

nelly said:
			
		

> Hi 2020...dignity?
> I understand everyone identifying with Steve and Terry and Bindy and Bob, they were in your face all the time, and he was a woderful ambassador for Oz...
> I think what I'm trying to say is put it in perspective, take into account his type of work, you can't say you are too shocked and surprised he died the way he did...ditto for Brock.
> I respected him enormously and feel sad for the kids and Terry...but....
> ...




Nelly,
those kids you are taliking about and all,lack exactly the leadership that Steve Irwin displayed towards what he believed in and towards his family,
people are sad for him and his family because he was such a good leader and person,not because he brought havoc on his community or enviroment.
Surely if people have nothing good to say about good people they should really say nothing at all,after all isn`t that a sign of civilization and what distingushes us from those who would inflict harm on others.


----------



## nelly (28 September 2006)

visual said:
			
		

> Nelly,
> those kids you are taliking about and all,lack exactly the leadership that Steve Irwin displayed towards what he believed in and towards his family,
> people are sad for him and his family because he was such a good leader and person,not because he brought havoc on his community or enviroment.
> Surely if people have nothing good to say about good people they should really say nothing at all,after all isn`t that a sign of civilization and what distingushes us from those who would inflict harm on others.




Hi visual...huh...???
You'd tell people who have lost a loved one that 'they don't show leadership qualities,' and that 'they don't beleive in their families,' and that they brought havoc on their communities or environment.???? 
I really don't think you understood my post at all. Did I say Steve Irwin wasn't a good person???? I don't really know because I didn't know him!!!!!!
Just like I've never met any war torn refugees or orphans or met all the unfortunate souls out there but I still 'feel' for them, and because of that I do the best with what I have and put my money where my bleeding heart should be.
"Inflict harm on others."????? [ I suppose you are referring to all the two year olds loading those guns over in Lebanon/Israel and soon to be Iran]
What I call a 'civilisation' is one where the more fortunate help up the less fortunate.

So as far as Irwin being a 'good' man...he probably was heck I don't know.
Am I sad he died...I suppose so. [ He lived his life the way he wanted to.]
I feel more for the family he left behind...and maybe if he thought more about them he might have taken it easier...I don't know.
It's not really for me to say, after all I didn't know the man.

P.S. I felt more deeply for Sophie and her family [the terrifying experience she must have gone through before she died.] And I didn't know her either.

Nelly


----------



## visual (28 September 2006)

Nelly,
re read your post,you make some fanciful claims almost as if you personally can speak from experience and yet you claim you dont.
Althought you also dont know Steve Irwin you seem to think that you can speak about him as if you knew him yet you say you dont,hmmm

People feel sad for him because he represented something good,also he achieved things that other people talk about and thats all.


----------



## 2020hindsight (28 September 2006)

nelly said:
			
		

> Hi 2020...dignity?
> I understand everyone identifying with Steve and Terry and Bindy and Bob, they were in your face all the time, and he was a woderful ambassador for Oz......I respected him enormously and feel sad for the kids and Terry...but....
> 
> What about the 1000,000's of kids with no family, no home, no nothing, ....
> The amount of people paying for trips to Australia Zoo, paying for flowers, all red eyed and depressed.....most of them wouldn't think of sponsoring a kid in a third world country ....So if you mean by 'dignity' that we shouldn't post how we feel about this and only write sob sob posts on this subject maybe you should have posted a thread titled "Everyone who wants to talk about their allegedly sad feelings on Steve Irwin....." Then you wouldn't have to read this. Cheerful



Nelly, sure there are plenty of cases of fatherless kids - I was one way back - be all that as it may be - and by the way our family does sponsor a kid in Africa - if you would just ask the moderator to delete your post about "so you weren't cut to pieces over his death" or kennas reference to the "crocodile lunatic" - then we could all move on without further risk of your being misunderstood, or (worst of all) those statements being read by an 8 year old angel - or her mother struggling to come to terms with a freakish acident that has robbed them of a great man - not just a good one , a great one who did more away from the cameras than he did in front of them - they don't need to read such insensitive and arguably nasty stuff as some of these recent posts - what do you think?.
PS maybe treat Kerri as a person entitled to be depressed, and all that that implies in the way of the empathy expressed on another lead around here somewhere.


----------



## nelly (28 September 2006)

Hi y'all 

I've obviously ruffled a few feathers....
I'm sure if you knew me you would take my comments in a different light...
Lotsa my friends have made the comment I can come off sounding like a mean be-atch......until they got to know me.
As thats not going to happen so be it.
But I'm not gonna stop being honest to appease sensibilties.

Cheerful [have a great day]  
p.s. the net is an expresionless environment at best.


----------



## Julia (28 September 2006)

visual said:
			
		

> Nelly,
> those kids you are taliking about and all,lack exactly the leadership that Steve Irwin displayed towards what he believed in and towards his family,
> people are sad for him and his family because he was such a good leader and person,not because he brought havoc on his community or enviroment.
> Surely if people have nothing good to say about good people they should really say nothing at all,after all isn`t that a sign of civilization and what distingushes us from those who would inflict harm on others.




So Visual, "if people have nothing good to say about good people they should really say nothing at all....."?

What, then, is the point of a discussion?  Everyone will just agree with everyone else and there simply is no discussion.

I think Nelly has made some good points.  All this semi-hysterical outpouring of grief for Terri and her children has become rather excessive.  It seemed to me that Nelly was attempting to strike some sort of balance with a reminder of all the kids who have never had a father to love them, or worse had one who abused them.  And the millions of women who bring up children on their own with not a fraction of the support, personal and financial, which will be available to Terri Irwin.

Sure, Steve Irwin struck a real chord with those who like to think of Australian blokes as Ocker-accented larrikins.  That's one type of Australian. But I can't help wondering if the same sort of fuss would be made if, e.g. Ian Frazer unexpectedly died?  Frankly I doubt it.

A 'freak accident" has been referred to.  I suppose it was.  I don't know anything about stingrays.  But remember, Irwin spent his entire life handling dangerous creatures and taking risks with them.  Is it really so surprising that one of them killed him?

I realise I will cop some flak for this post since I appear not to be joining in the mass mourning for Steve Irwin.  I'm not making any comment about him as a person.  I can't.  I didn't know him.  

I'm just suggesting a sense of proportion might be appropriate and Nelly's post provided that imo.

Julia

PS  Visual, your comment about not saying anything if you can't say something good takes us back to the era where children were expected to "be seen and not heard"!


----------



## nelly (28 September 2006)

thank you Julia that is exactly what i was trying to say....
cheerful [at work on someone elses 'puter]


----------



## visual (28 September 2006)

Julia,
if you read Nelly`s post,he was making it personal,how can one family`s grief be minimised to maximise someone elses grief?
And as for your last comment surely you jest!


----------



## Prospector (28 September 2006)

Julia, your post is exactly the way I feel too!

I feel deeply deeply sorry for The Irwin family who are left behind. I heard  Terri say that Bob said he wanted to get sick, so he could join his Daddy in heaven!

And I think that we will miss Steve Irwin just because he was a real Australian Identity.  But I never wanted to aspire to be like him, nor do I think that he captures the spirit of what makes Australia great.  

However, he probably did capture what other people (eg the Americans) think makes Australia great!  But should others be our yardstick for self-esteem - nope!

I have often wondered would Steve Irwin have been so popular in Australia if he had not appealed to the US.  Certainly in South Australia his death has been acknowledged but not really much more than that!

As a family we have discussed why his death has created so much impact and we all think that it is very much media driven, there is so much media available about him, his death was even filmed, so the media has to use these resources to the maximum extent.

In the same week that Steve Irwin died, a very worthwhile South Australian also died - Colin Thiele who was a children's author (Storm Boy) and who worked extensively with youth.  Did that even make a headline elsewhere?


----------



## nelly (28 September 2006)

visual said:
			
		

> Julia,
> if you read Nelly`s post,he was making it personal,how can one family`s grief be minimised to maximise someone elses grief?
> And as for your last comment surely you jest!



if i'm not mistaken thats what you implied visual and if you'd bothered finding out who you were havin a go at you'd know it is miss not mr 
cheerfully female :


----------



## Julia (28 September 2006)

visual said:
			
		

> Julia,
> if you read Nelly`s post,he was making it personal,how can one family`s grief be minimised to maximise someone elses grief?
> And as for your last comment surely you jest!



No, Visual.  I do not jest as you so quaintly put it.  The suggestion that if we can't say something "nice" we should refrain from commenting does in fact come from the same social sensibility as the dictum that children should not express their opinions about anything.

Hopefully, you now realise Nelly is a woman, not that that makes any difference to the content of her post.

Sorry, but I can't really make sense of your comment about one family's grief being minimised to maximise someone else's grief.  You seem to have missed the point I was trying to make.  I wasn't attempting to quantify anyone's grief.  What I was trying to do was restore some sense of proportion to the whole Irwin media frenzy.

Julia


----------



## justjohn (28 September 2006)

Thanks girls for hijacking this thread to ram down our throats your social issues. I thought the fellas can ramp but you girls are non stop. WHY are you wasting your time on the ASF when theres is so much work to be done in our cruel harsh world of fatherless children, broken families, poverty blah.......blah............blah..........blah........or as they say ladies GET A TV :


----------



## visual (28 September 2006)

Post 128 was in reference to what Nelly was saying,so she is a woman,so what? : 
Julia you`ve completely missed what I wanted to say.
Seems to me that if one loved child loses his dad whether rich or poor or in a war situation or not the important thing is the relatioship thats broken.Not the geographical location.
At the end of the day Nelly and Kennas were being rude,and thats offensive whether the person is dead or alive.He achieved a lot,he loved his family he did what he said, what the hell more do people want,in this case I think the tall poppy syndrome is alive and well.Sure we all have a right to say what we want but why be nasty about someone who can no longer defend himself.Don`t get it .


----------



## 2020hindsight (28 September 2006)

Prospector said:
			
		

> ....In the same week that Steve Irwin died, a very worthwhile South Australian also died - Colin Thiele who was a children's author (Storm Boy) and who worked extensively with youth.  Did that even make a headline elsewhere?



Prospector, you're right - to a degree.  Id never heard of him (though I recall Storm Boy) - found this on the internet ... "Colin Thiele was born in Eudunda, South Australia, in 1920. ... Colin Thiele has published almost 80 books in various fields including poetry, prose, ..."  Heck if he's half the poet that Adam Lindsay Gordon was (also SA originally), he can't be all bad. ("Life is mostly froth and bubble, two things stand like stone - kindness in another's trouble courage in your own")

But there's at least one difference - one was 44 the other almost twice that.  Its the difference between burying a father - that's the way Buddha surely intended - and burying a son - assisted by his infant grandchildren.  Steve's son in turn won't come close to understanding this for another twenty years, maybe more.  You hit it on the head when you mentioned him talking about wanting to visit his dad in Heaven.  I think a little bit of self censorship under these circumstances would be justified.


----------



## nelly (29 September 2006)

justjohn said:
			
		

> Thanks girls for hijacking this thread to ram down our throats your social issues. I thought the fellas can ramp but you girls are non stop. WHY are you wasting your time on the ASF when theres is so much work to be done in our cruel harsh world of fatherless children, broken families, poverty blah.......blah............blah..........blah........or as they say ladies GET A TV :




Oh....ok, I'll leave it to you fella's.....

Post 128 was in reference to what Nelly was saying,so she is a woman,so what? 

 It doesn't make a difference in the slightest if I'm a woman...just wanted to clarify.

Julia you`ve completely missed what I wanted to say.

Ditto for you visual..

Cheerful :


----------



## Julia (29 September 2006)

nelly said:
			
		

> Oh....ok, I'll leave it to you fella's.....
> 
> Post 128 was in reference to what Nelly was saying,so she is a woman,so what?
> 
> ...



Nelly, I'm a bit confused here.  In your Post 172 you said

thank you Julia that is exactly what i was trying to say....
cheerful 

And now you say I've completely missed what you wanted to say, as has Visual.  Perhaps you can clarify what you did want to say?

Julia


----------



## Bearman52 (29 September 2006)

"Irwin media frenzy"
Julia you nailed it !! no kids being eaten by cannibals ,no blokes stuck down mineshafts,no politicians being assasinated (damn) I don't think I've seen so much maudlin c#@p in years.
And by the way I thought that this was a trading site??? :
BM


----------



## Prospector (29 September 2006)

General chat = whatever you want!


----------



## nelly (29 September 2006)

Julia said:
			
		

> Nelly, I'm a bit confused here.  In your Post 172 you said
> 
> thank you Julia that is exactly what i was trying to say....
> cheerful
> ...




My mistake Julia...re-read my post and realised it sounded wonky...I didn't do the quote thingee That bit about "julia you completely misread what I wanted to say" was supposed to be a quote from visual....sorry.
Just to clarify for last time [4 whoever cares]
I am sad Irwin died............I realise we have lost an exceptional person in that he helped the tourist trade etc I feel sad for his family......
But I think we should put it all into the big picture, so to speak. Prospector and Julia said it very well.....there are a lot of other well deserving people out there passing away with little or no recognition, compared to the hype surrounding Irwin's death.
This is general chat isn't it....?


----------



## barney (29 September 2006)

nelly said:
			
		

> My mistake Julia...re-read my post and realised it sounded wonky...I didn't do the quote thingee That bit about "julia you completely misread what I wanted to say" was supposed to be a quote from visual....sorry.
> Just to clarify for last time [4 whoever cares]
> I am sad Irwin died............I realise we have lost an exceptional person in that he helped the tourist trade etc I feel sad for his family......
> But I think we should put it all into the big picture, so to speak. Prospector and Julia said it very well.....there are a lot of other well deserving people out there passing away with little or no recognition, compared to the hype surrounding Irwin's death.
> This is general chat isn't it....?





Amen!    Now that's the real Nelly!  Goodonya....Barney


----------



## Bloveld (30 September 2006)

OK we got it.
You dont care about the guy.
Why repeat it 20 bloody times.


----------



## saltyjones (30 September 2006)

who is steve irwin ?


----------



## StockyBailx (1 October 2006)

Ride-o lets just pay our respects and condulances to the man and his be loved family, rather than bag the man, or judge him. Personaly the way you people have carried on is disapionting. No one has been a more fairdinkum bloke and as down to earth then Steve Irwin, lets just have alot of respect for the man. If you can't do that than take this thread of air. (Joe)

Be good to the man!


----------



## saltyjones (1 October 2006)

StockyBailx said:
			
		

> Ride-o lets just pay our respects and condulances to the man and his be loved family, rather than bag the man, or judge him. Personaly the way you people have carried on is disapionting. No one has been a more fairdinkum bloke and as down to earth then Steve Irwin, lets just have alot of respect for the man. If you can't do that than take this thread of air. (Joe)
> 
> Be good to the man!



i hope you get over your disappointment in us mob, stocky. personally, i've been disappointed in the way aussies communicate between each other for decades. in the end my judging was immaterial. in the next 2 decades i'm working on seeing the spirit of the d8%khead before me. maybe it is time to just accept the inadequacies of culture & the spoken language. and, stocky, i reckon your life is wonderful in its own right......


----------



## 2020hindsight (1 October 2006)

http://ninemsn.video.msn.com/v/en-a...aunews_aunationalninenews&t=s29&mediaid=26137
- For those who can spare 10 minutes from their daily schedule.
- For those who can't or who don't want to, please ignore this (rather than be negative).


----------



## 2020hindsight (1 October 2006)

http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2496624&page=1&gma=true
half a dozen videos
the lady speaks pure poetry


----------



## StockyBailx (2 October 2006)

_Thankx for the links 2020hindsight, she really is a lady and must be doing it tough considering the stong bond that those two had AND those magnificent childen they have raised. My CONDULANCES to them all. may the lord have mercy on his soul. For I'm sure he will always be at home with his beutiful family. May they always live on and there ambitions remain successfull. God bless them all for there controbution to earth and socity as we know it. Or as Steve would say;_

* CRIKEY, GE WIZ MATE *​ 


 ​


----------



## StockyBailx (2 October 2006)

_Even put sum money aside to visit there wildlife park and if possible pay my respects to his grave. What a bloke what a family (True Australians) A big heart like him he will always be here in spirit._


----------



## 2020hindsight (19 November 2006)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXSzIBKJQkU
RIP m8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UgPGR3qdLo&mode=related&search=


----------



## 2020hindsight (2 December 2006)

http://www.unoriginal.co.uk/footage110_4.html
 - did he have a sense of humour or what 
sorry , but this thread is the first place i saw the news - like the old saying "where were you when you heard that JFK died"


----------



## nelly (7 December 2006)

okay okay......I will ALWAYS remember what I was doing when Steve passed away........O.K.?


----------



## nelly (7 December 2006)

I can't believe this thread is still alive............
[When JFK died the thread only lasted a week....]
I know .....take it all the wrong way.....I asked for it......[I really did luv Stevie]


----------



## 2020hindsight (1 September 2007)

> The Crocodile Hunter - My Daddy
> Time: Saturday, September 1, 7:30 PM
> Channel: Nine
> Duration: 60 minutes
> ...




I bow to you, man. 
you are missed! 

(and ok - i'm a fraction pissed)


----------



## 2020hindsight (14 September 2008)

SthAussies and Sandgropers - don't miss 60 minutes tonight - if you're interested in conservation, the Irwins , how they are coping, and the fight with the bauxite miners.    What a family, What a hero that lady is 




> 60 Minutes
> Time: Sunday, September 14, 7.30pm
> Channel: Nine
> Duration: 58 minutes (in fact until 8.10pm)
> ...




Heck they are now moving onto interviewig Costello   - Maybe that will add extra interest for others.


----------



## 2020hindsight (14 September 2008)

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24292642-3102,00.html



> Australia Zoo to fight 'environmental vandalism'Article from: AAP
> Jessica Marszalek
> September 04, 2008 01:35pm
> 
> ...


----------



## tigerboi (14 September 2008)

*Re: Crocodile Hunter was a knob!*

my mrs loved him,i reckon he was a knob...does anyone remember when he buried a dead kangaroo?that was enough for me...crikey wow...blah blah...too fake for my liking...

theres guys up in the north REAL crocodile hunters been doing it for long before irwin(he did it with a camera,look at moi look at moi)...dont forget he didnt do it for nothing...gotta pay to see our own native animals he takes to his zoo...top shelf knob...all imo of course...tb


----------



## bearmarket (15 September 2008)

He was a great Australian, probably the greatest ever, such selflessness in pursuit of ecology.

bearmarket


----------



## Harleyquin (6 September 2009)

bearmarket said:


> He was a great Australian, probably the greatest ever, such selflessness in pursuit of ecology.
> 
> bearmarket



I visited Australia Zoo for the first time last year, it was brilliant.  Loved the whole atmosphere.  Bindi put her head over a wall of green sunshade and there was a door nearby marked [private'  She said 'do you want a photo; so we took a couple of photos of her and then she jumped down and wouldnt' come up again.  When we looked around there was her Mum with her little brother giving us all a strange look, she didn't realise that Bindi had been just 'posing' for photos.


----------



## Julia (6 September 2009)

I just can't stand Bindi Irwin.  Well, the whole family really.

And hate the whole concept of zoos.


----------



## scanspeak (6 September 2009)

Julia said:


> I just can't stand Bindi Irwin.  Well, the whole family really.
> 
> And hate the whole concept of zoos.




You hate them why? Because they are successful, famous and popular?
I hate negativity and the tall poppy syndrome.


----------



## Harleyquin (7 September 2009)

Julia said:


> I just can't stand Bindi Irwin.  Well, the whole family really.
> 
> And hate the whole concept of zoos.



Julia there are many of us who hate the concept of animals kept in cages.  I know at Australia Zoo that this does occur and we can only hope that the education and scientific research being done will help.  I have a rellie who works there and they are very very caring and really look after the animals.  This hasn't always been the case in many zoos in the past and still isn't in many many places around the world.  

My brief experience with Bindi would suggest to me that she is very much like her Dad and likes the limelight but she seemed very happy and lively.  We all know that her life is far from that of normal children but her education, because of her priveliged life will hopefully balance out some of the negatives in her life.  At the end of the day she's lost her Dad and it's my guess that this has and will continue to impact on her life forever.  I would rather see her dad still alive and part of her life than to lose him at such a young age.


----------



## Julia (7 September 2009)

scanspeak said:


> You hate them why? Because they are successful, famous and popular?
> I hate negativity and the tall poppy syndrome.



I hate seeing wild animals caged for human amusement.
The family?  Not because of any of your suggested reasons, but rather because they interfere with and cage animals for the sake of a successful business.
Bindi, and presumably the young brother when he's old enough, are being plastered all over the world stage to further the business venture, and I simply don't like seeing children being used like that.

Nothing to do with 'tall poppy' syndrome.  Don't consider them tall poppies.


----------



## noirua (7 September 2009)

Julia said:


> I hate seeing wild animals caged for human amusement.
> The family?  Not because of any of your suggested reasons, but rather because they interfere with and cage animals for the sake of a successful business.
> Bindi, and presumably the young brother when he's old enough, are being plastered all over the world stage to further the business venture, and I simply don't like seeing children being used like that.
> 
> Nothing to do with 'tall poppy' syndrome.  Don't consider them tall poppies.




You seem to have sussed out what's happening over there at the Zoo Julia, and that's something many must see happening and you've managed to put it into words where other of us have let it pass us by.

After the great man died the commercialism must have set in quickly as they realized the million-dollar-man who held it all together was gone. When they sidelined Grandad that was probably the moment that signalled a major turning point.


----------



## Prospector (7 September 2009)

Living in SA we were quite sheltered from the advertising about Australia Zoo and Steve Irwin's exploits.  Until of course his death.  While his memorial service was shown on TV, everyone here was pretty much 'meh' about it all although it was sad from a family perspective, to see a young family losing their father.  But other than that it hardly rocked our boat.
In the next 12 months, we were then continually shown Bindi and her mother on the media and that was when people here started to gag a little.  

But thankfully here the media have now moved on, and I realise I am liking Bindi more, the less I see of her.  It has nothing to do with Tall Poppy; why so some people trot out the 'Tall Poppy' stuff when people express their distaste for *some* of the people who expose themselves to the media.  

Arent we allowed to form an opinion on someone in the media anymore?


----------



## noirua (7 September 2009)

Prospector said:


> But thankfully here the media have now moved on, and I realise I am liking Bindi more, the less I see of her.  It has nothing to do with Tall Poppy; why so some people trot out the 'Tall Poppy' stuff when people express their distaste for *some* of the people who expose themselves to the media.
> 
> Arent we allowed to form an opinion on someone in the media anymore?




Perhaps we should have tall sunflowers instead of poppys.  As they follow the sun with a constant smile on their faces and can have 16 or more flowers, and the seeds, black or striped, have a further purpose in being eaten by us, the birds and other animals. Height normally given in feet rather than metres and I remember one reaching 16 feet (5 metres).


----------



## jono1887 (7 September 2009)

noirua said:


> Perhaps we should have tall sunflowers instead of poppys.  As they follow the sun with a constant smile on their faces and can have 16 or more flowers, and the seeds, black or striped, have a further purpose in being eaten by us, the birds and other animals. Height normally given in feet rather than metres and I remember one reaching 16 feet (5 metres).




i think tall poppy sounds better then tall soundflowers. Besides, there is a negative connotation associated with poppies where sun flowers are generally regarded as a positive happy flower.


----------



## trainspotter (7 September 2009)

Julia said:


> I hate seeing wild animals caged for human amusement.
> The family?  Not because of any of your suggested reasons, but rather because they interfere with and cage animals for the sake of a successful business.
> Bindi, and presumably the young brother when he's old enough, are being plastered all over the world stage to further the business venture, and I simply don't like seeing children being used like that.
> 
> Nothing to do with 'tall poppy' syndrome.  Don't consider them tall poppies.




Guessing this kind of wildlife people/conservationists will use whatever means are necessary to ensure the survival of the species they are so passionate about? All glory to the IRWIN's. IMO. Lord knows the humans are killing off the flora and fauna at an alraming rate. We need people like this to bring us back to an even keel. I particularly did not like Steve Irwin ... Too dangerous in his character and risk taking for my liking ... Loved him for his nature stance though.


----------



## GumbyLearner (8 September 2009)

Watched the 2 hour Steve Irwin tribute on Animal Planet last night. The fact that this guy was able to design and build a "croc-seum" if that's what it's called was amazing indeed. I think this man had a real passion for the creatures of the world regardless of whether they were great, big, small, scary, wild, poisonous, smelly, annoying, boring, dosile etc.. 

I just think he wanted the human race to understand them more.

What an enthusiast now lost! 

Cheers Steve & Terry


----------



## noirua (5 September 2018)

*Steve Irwin’s daughter shares touching tribute on 12th anniversary of his death *
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertain...rsary-of-his-death/ar-BBMQgVJ?ocid=spartandhp










A tribute in photographs by Bindi Irwin
https://www.instagram.com/bindisueirwin/?utm_source=ig_embed


----------

