# Bosch electric cooktops



## awg (21 September 2009)

a very non-stock matter I know, but any ideas or opinions welcome

bought a top-of- the range electric cooktop made by Bosch when I re-did my kitchen 4 years ago. ($1600)

now, 4 out of the 5 elements have burnt out, meaning I need to replace it.

I spoke to Bosch Australia about this, as to why this would happen.

They told me they had never heard of such an occurence.

I spoke to the technical manager at length, and the best he could come up with is "voltage spikes" and suggested I check with my energy supplier.

even though I knew this was probably BS, I did, they said my power supply is fine.

I have asked Bosch to supply me with a new unit at a discount, as the warranty is only 2 years, but they are reluctant.

I will be writing to them again shortly...any ideas?

I am most reluctant to replace with another Bosch unless they discount


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## Stan 101 (21 September 2009)

How did the electricity supplier audit the power? Usually there is a UPS style inline recorder used for a week or so to check for voltage irregularities.

I'd get Bosch's thoughts on paper and make a phone call to my insurer and get it covered under burn out.



cheers,


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## Anastasia (21 September 2009)

We live in a set of 5 units and recently the unit owners upstairs complained that all four of their cooktop element thermostats had gone. We checked ours and indeen one had gone...result is that the coils only go flat out. When we phoned the local Blanco dealer, their response also was power spikes as the cause of the problem. 

Not so expensive for 1, but you can imagine what the owner up stairs is saying having to replace all four thermostats at almost $150 each.


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## Julia (21 September 2009)

Don't mean to cast oil on the fire here, but I only recently had to replace two of my four burners on my ordinary old (16 years old in fact) Westinghouse cooktop.  Oven fan has died (rarely used it anyway), but oven and grill are still fine.


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## awg (21 September 2009)

Julia said:


> Don't mean to cast oil on the fire here, but I only recently had to replace two of my four burners on my ordinary old (16 years old in fact) Westinghouse cooktop.  Oven fan has died (rarely used it anyway), but oven and grill are still fine.




dont get me started..my Mrs, bless her heart, insisted on a fancy hands no-knobs jobby. She is re-insisting (this time her hand will be in her purse tho)

my 3 yr old mower, the wheels fell off, had a look, it is made of thin ****ty steel, which is rusted away, not magnesium alloy, which doesnt rust.

consequently a 10yr+ old side-of-the-road mower body is about to get a 3yr old engine transplant


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## jono1887 (21 September 2009)

Considering the price of the item, you would expect it to last more than 4 years. Theres really not much you can do if its due to your power supplier but you could always threaten to write a letter to the consumer affairs or any other watchdog as I believe there is an implicit guarantee for all products that they are expected to last for a 'reasonable amount of time'. I would suspect that 4 years for something like that is very unreasonable...


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## trainspotter (21 September 2009)

If the warranty is for 2 years and you got 4 years out of it, what is the problem? I understand you are peeved that you should have received a better run out of the Bosch cooktop as they normally have a pretty good name. Unfortunately I cannot see the manufacturer assisting in this one. I have had instances where the warranty has run out literally to the day of the product and the manufacturer refused to assist. After threatening blue murder (turnover was 18 million at the time) and advising them that we would be changing suppliers they begrudgingly gave in. I could suggest that whoever you decide to purchase the new replacement from that you explain the situation to them and see if they will give you a discount either on the same product or to entice you to try a different brand perhaps?


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## Solly (21 September 2009)

awg said:


> a very non-stock matter I know, but any ideas or opinions welcome
> 
> bought a top-of- the range electric cooktop made by Bosch when I re-did my kitchen 4 years ago. ($1600)
> 
> ...




awg

Have a look at

http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/815360

I wonder if these goods were "fit for their purpose".

Mains supply have known voltage fluctuations/drops and frequency fluctuations. 

Have any other appliances failed ? Have any of your on site appliances like tvs, radios, routers, switches, computers, hot water systems (elements), air- con, heaters, fridges (series motors) failed or had issues ?

Have any of your neighbours had power issues that have impacted on appliances with high current elements ?

Seems to me that they are drawing a long bow blaming an energy company for power issues.

Set up a 3 way call with them and a power company engineer. Let the experts speak to each other directly. I'd be polite and firm, question their methodology on how they can come to the conclusion that it is a power service provider issue. You'll be amazed at what outcomes you get with strategies like this. 

Is it reasonable for an appliance to only last 4 years and normal use ? I assume you don't have a meth lab.

What if the unit was faulty from the beginning or was of poor design ?
Who makes this determination ?

Good luck, don't be talked down to and demand a fair and reasonable outcome. The cost of phone calls are cheap.


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## Ardyne (21 September 2009)

Solly is on the money. A product has to do what its advertised and sold to do. Warranty has nothing to do with it if the unit did/does not perform the job it was designed to do.

Threaten to take them to consumer affairs or whatever it is (ACCC?). Its not very expensive to do I believe. Like $200.00 or something.


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## jono1887 (21 September 2009)

Ardyne said:


> Solly is on the money. A product has to do what its advertised and sold to do. Warranty has nothing to do with it if the unit did/does not perform the job it was designed to do.
> 
> Threaten to take them to consumer affairs or whatever it is (ACCC?). Its not very expensive to do I believe. Like $200.00 or something.




It doesnt cost you anything to make a complaint to consumer affairs.


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## nunthewiser (21 September 2009)

buy a gas one


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## jono1887 (22 September 2009)

or try induction cook tops... more expensive but also more energy efficient.


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## Ardyne (22 September 2009)

You're right jonno but I meant when you take them to court (but its not actually court) like mediation or something.


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## Smurf1976 (22 September 2009)

awg said:


> I spoke to the technical manager at length, and the best he could come up with is "voltage spikes" and suggested I check with my energy supplier.
> 
> even though I knew this was probably BS, I did, they said my power supply is fine.
> 
> I am most reluctant to replace with another Bosch unless they discount



Voltage: Possibly an issue but unlikely. Your light bulbs especially would all have blown long before excessive voltage damaged an element. Elements are pretty tolerant to excessive voltage (within reason) unless we're talking about halogen elements which are more sensitive (like a light bulb...).

Assuming we're not talking about halogen elements, if voltage was the issue then you'd have had a lot more problems than just the cooktop unless we're talking about a short, sharp spike that happened when nothing else was turned on. I assume the elements didn't all fail at the same time?

Low, as distinct from high, voltage certainly won't damage an ordinary element in a cooktop (it will destroy your fridge pretty quickly however).

Frequency: Outright nonsense if anyone's claiming that to be a problem assuming you're on the NSW/QLD/Vic/SA main grid. Large frequency variations sufficient to damage ordinary household equipment just don't happen on that system. 

Unless you're running appliances via a frequency change device (eg a variable speed drive), NOTHING you do in the house will affect frequency. Running a welder or a big air-conditioner starting up will make the voltage dip and you'll see flickering lights. But frequency is always the same from the power station to your power points at home and there's nothing you can do to change that. And for frequency to change in Newcastle, it would have changed everywhere from north Queensland to SA - it's all the same grid.

Frequency would only be an issue if you're running it from a generator, inverter (other than a grid-connected solar inverter which is inherently tied to grid frequency) or are on a very small, unstable grid (eg one run by a mining company primarily to supply their own operations with supply to households being a by-product - frequency may wobble when the mine starts or stops large motors etc).

So I'd say it's almost certainly either faulty design or faulty manufacturing. The simmerstat may be allowing the elements to run too hot and burn out (*note that the simmerstat should fully offset any voltage fluctuations within a fairly wide margin* - that's an inherent feature of its design). Another possibiltiy is it's just faulty design leading to exceessive heat build up. And it could just be faulty manufacturing.

One point to note for longevity of cooktops - don't leave them running flat out with no pan on the hot plate. It shouldn't cause immediate damage, but it will be running hotter than it should which isn't good. (Why would you want it running without a pan anyway?)

As for Bosch in general, personally I prefer to stick to very mainstream whitegoods. Easy to get parts (and they're cheap) and the quality is generally reasonable. Once you start putting fancy electronics into everything and using specialised parts you can forget any prospect of economic servicing when it inevitably breaks - parts will cost a fortune and won't be easy to obtain outside the major cities (noting that "major cities" in this context means Sydney and Melbourne only).

In terms of cooking performance, I'd go for a gas cooktop unless there's a good reason not to. Simple, not much to go wrong and they are much better to cook with in my opinion.

For the record, I'm a licensed Electrical Technican (A-grade electrician).


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## Julia (22 September 2009)

jono1887 said:


> Considering the price of the item, you would expect it to last more than 4 years. Theres really not much you can do if its due to your power supplier but you could always threaten to write a letter to the consumer affairs or any other watchdog as I believe there is an implicit guarantee for all products that they are expected to last for a 'reasonable amount of time'. I would suspect that 4 years for something like that is very unreasonable...



Yes, you're right, jono.  There is over all products a Statutory Warranty.
Dept of Fair Trading will be able to provide details, the time period varies between products.  

I'd say four years for a cooktop is way too little.

Don't be intimidated by either the retailer or the manufacturer.  That is exactly what they are counting on.  Check first with Fair Trading for the details, then just calmly tell whomever you are dealing with, whether it's the retailer (it should be because that is who you have the contract with), that you will be taking the matter up with Fair Trading.

I'd be very surprised if you don't experience a somewhat altered response.

Let us know how you get on.


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## awg (16 October 2009)

An update.

Bosch have offered me a replacement at less than 50% new retail price.

Good they are prepared to support the product.

thanks to ASF members who replied to my initial posting.

I believe it made a difference when I advised them i was discussing the matter on a public forum


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## jono1887 (17 October 2009)

awg said:


> An update.
> 
> Bosch have offered me a replacement at less than 50% new retail price.
> 
> ...




Good to hear there was a good outcome


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## inenigma (17 October 2009)

Switch to Gas....


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## awg (17 October 2009)

inenigma said:


> Switch to Gas....




would have to use gas cylinders


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## jono1887 (17 October 2009)

awg said:


> would have to use gas cylinders




You don't have gas mains where you live?


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## Smurf1976 (17 October 2009)

jono1887 said:


> You don't have gas mains where you live?



I use a gas cooktoop with gas from cylinders and it's no hassle at all. Properly installed setup with two cylinders, valve to choose which one to use and all plumbed in copper pipe (no rubber hoses). Can't remember the cost but was done by a licensed gas fitter and cost somewhere around $500 including pipe under the house to the kitchen and all materials and installation work.

Each cylinder lasts about 12 months. They're under the ramp to the back door nicely out of the way and I don't even think about them unless someone mentions it. I wouldn't bother connecting mains gas even if it became available as it just wouldn't be worth all the hassle, digging things up etc for the trivial amount that I use cooking.


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## cpg (18 January 2010)

I wouldnt buy bosch to start with. A german brand thats mostly made in China or Thailand.

Good luck


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