# Can Malcolm Turnbull rise from the ashes?



## noco (29 July 2009)

Malcom Turnbull has hit his lowest at 16% approval rating. It is the same level that saw the demise of Brendan Nelson.
Is there really anybody else in the Liberal Party that can fill his shoes.
How about Wilson Tuckey?????????


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## Julia (29 July 2009)

*Re: Can Malcolm Turbull rise from the ashes?*

You are, of course, joking about Mr Tuckey!
There is just no one who would do any better than Turnbull.
Tony Abbott is lining himself up but hopefully they won't ever stoop to having him as leader.

To change leaders again would make them look even more foolish.


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## Agentm (29 July 2009)

from the liberal party website

i dont think they hold office anywhere at the moment.. so maybe the current leader or next leader of the libs will just be cannon fodder

Our Leaders - 1944 onwards

Robert Menzies


1944 - 1966


Prime Minister

Harold Holt


1966 - 1967


Prime Minister

John Gorton


1968 - 1971


Prime Minister

William McMahon


1971 - 1972


Prime Minister

Bill Snedden


1972 - 1975


Leader of the Opposition

Malcolm Fraser


1975 - 1983


Prime Minister

Andrew Peacock


1983 - 1985


Leader of the Opposition

John Howard


1985 -1989


Leader of the Opposition

Andrew Peacock


1989 - 1990


Leader of the Opposition

John Hewson


1990 - 1994


Leader of the Opposition

Alexander Downer


1994 - 1995


Leader of the Opposition

John Howard


1995 - 2007


Prime Minister

Brendan Nelson


2007 - 2008


Leader of the Opposition

Malcolm Turnbull


2007 - present


Leader of the Opposition

Our Electoral Success

Our Electoral Successes Federal:

Governed in coalition:
1949 - 1972
1975 - 1983
1996 - 2007

New South Wales:

Governed in coalition:
1965 - 1976
1988 - 1995

Victoria:

Governed in own right:
1948 - 1950
1955 - 1982
Governed in coalition:
1943 - 1945
1947 - 1948
1992 - 1999

Queensland:

Governed in coalition:
1957 - 1983
1996 - 1998

South Australia:

Governed as Liberal Country League:
1933 - 1965
1968 - 1970
Governed as Liberal Party:
1979 - 1982
1993 - 2002

Western Australia:

Governed in coalition:
1947 - 1953
1959 - 1971
1974 - 1983
1993 - 2001
2008 - present

Tasmania:

Governed in coalition:
1969 - 1972
Governed in own right:
1982 - 1989
1992 - 1998

Northern Territory:

NT Country Liberal Party elected as majority party in 1974. Governed from self-government in 1978 until 2001.

ACT:

Self-government since 1989.

Governed in coalition:
December 1989 - June 1991
1995 - 2001.


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## Datsun Disguise (29 July 2009)

*Re: Can Malcolm Turbull rise from the ashes?*



Julia said:


> You are, of course, joking about Mr Tuckey!
> There is just no one who would do any better than Turnbull.
> Tony Abbott is lining himself up but hopefully they won't ever stoop to having him as leader.
> 
> To change leaders again would make them look even more foolish.




I agree Julia - building back credibility is the only way out of this. Mal needs to get a bit smarter about the political game, I think he has not realised how easily manipulated the public is, all it takes is a few headlines and that becomes public opinion. I was amazed at how quickly the ute affair (which -lets face it - had something in it for which KR needed to answer, even more so WS) turned into an examination of how malcolm handled it, not about the dodgy dealings that KR and co have been involved in. 

I'm not sure that Malcolm can get himself as grubby as our career politicians do in order to be really successful....


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## wayneL (29 July 2009)

Gawd!

The prospect of Labor in power for a few terms because the Liberals can't get their act together is truly bed wettingly frightening.

Come back Pete!!


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## Buckeroo (29 July 2009)

Sadly, if Mal resigns, then it will seem that KRudd is choosing the leader of the opposition. We will have the electorate thinking that if KRudd doesn't like who the Liberals pick, he'll just give him pizzling and get rid of him.

What should happen is Mal needs to show some guts & determination - don't worry about what the media is saying, just do the right thing, stick with your policies & when the going gets tough, toughen up!

Thats the only way he's going to beat KRudds lying machine.

Cheers


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## Timmy (29 July 2009)

wayneL said:


> Come back Pete!!




There is a thread on ASF where Mr. C is being implored to come back.  Apparently nominations for Higgins close on July 30 (according to said thread).  One day left.


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## trainspotter (29 July 2009)

If my memory serves me correctly a very similar thing happened with Labor around 2001 with Kim Beazly who lost the election only to be replaced by Simon Crean who steered the good ship "Credit Card" straight onto the rocks. Roll on late 2003 when a media hatchet job landed the ever popular Mark Latham to the prize seat of Union Leader. After a particulary nasty and spectacular meltdown in the heat of battle he was replaced by Kim Beazley Mk 2 on 28 January 2005. The media savvy Kevin Michael Rudd performed the best Brutus act in Caucus and managed to backstab his way to victory on the 4th December 2006. To Mr. Rudd's credit he has managed to deflect any mudslinging thus far and retains the mantle of "Supreme Ruler" to this day. (trolled form Kevin Rudd misled parliament thread)

It seems the term "opposition" also means party in turmoil on both sides of politics. Could be in for a long hiatus waiting for the Liberal factions to sort themselves out and finally elect a leader with hair on his balls. Back bone would be good as well.

Am thinking of starting my own political party and calling it "LABERAL" This way I can have the best of both worlds. Fiscal responsibility combined with spendaholic syndrome. In other words ... you rack up the debt on the "Credit Card" and you have the ability to pay it off. Just like in the real world.


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## Mr J (29 July 2009)

trainspotter said:


> the good ship "Credit Card"




These references always make me laugh, keep it up .


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## noco (29 July 2009)

*Re: Can Malcolm Turbull rise from the ashes?*



Julia said:


> You are, of course, joking about Mr Tuckey!
> There is just no one who would do any better than Turnbull.
> Tony Abbott is lining himself up but hopefully they won't ever stoop to having him as leader.
> 
> To change leaders again would make them look even more foolish.




Ha Julia, ?????????????? did you not observe?  I was just lighting the fire to see how much much smoke I could create!!
IMHO if Peter Costello does not surprise us tomorrow (closing day for his nomination for the saet of Higgins) I believe Malcolm can rise from the ashes having taken some hard knocks and learnt some hard lessons. He has to develope Rudd's cunningness and beat Rudd at his own game: ie better organised SPIN.


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## Sean K (29 July 2009)

wayneL said:


> Gawd!
> 
> The prospect of Labor in power for a few terms because the Liberals can't get their act together is truly bed wettingly frightening.
> 
> Come back Pete!!



Too much smurk. He should cane his parents for that. Otherwise a nice smile would have taken him all the way. Something so simple. A smile!  Just a nice smile Pete!!


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## trainspotter (29 July 2009)

Costello's reward for being loyal to little Johnny


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## Sean K (29 July 2009)

Oh dear...


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## trainspotter (29 July 2009)

Don't look Johnny ... I really don't want to be leader. After Alexander Downer was forced to step down from the Liberal leadership in 1995, Mr Costello did not take on the role but supported Mr Howard.  He later publicly revealed that he had made a deal that in return for support Mr Howard would step down sometime during his second term. However Mr Howard has always disputed a deal was ever made.

During his time as treasurer Mr Costello brought down nine budgets in surplus, *eliminated Commonwealth debt*, and implemented the GST, one of the biggest tax reforms in Australia's history. 

Contrary to many in his party, Mr Costello also spoke out in support of lifting the ban on the abortion drug RU 486 after revealing he had to choose between saving the life of his wife or his unborn child when she became extremely ill during her pregnancy. 

*However Mr Costello's much-anticipated tilt for the leadership never materialised.*

In the lead-up to the 2007 election, Mr Howard, himself under pressure over his leadership, said he would step down "well into his fourth term" to make way for Mr Costello.

When the Coalition lost the election, Mr Costello unexpectedly headed for the backbench and announced he would be leaving politics to pursue a career in business.

But he lingered on the backbench for another 18 months before announcing his retirement.


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## Calliope (29 July 2009)

No. This is the picture of Malcolm in future years;

*



			I coulda been a contender. I coulda been somebody, instead of a bum, which is what I am
		
Click to expand...


*,


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## trainspotter (29 July 2009)

Memo to Malcolm Turnbull ..... "Dear Malcolm, Don't come Monday. Yours Truly, Tony Abbott"

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25845951-2,00.html


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## Macquack (29 July 2009)

One thing still alive and well in Australia is the "tall poppy syndrome".

The 2009 annual BRW list of the richest Australians put Turnbull at 182 of 200, with an estimated *net worth of $178 million*. Based on this alone, he has a snow flakes chance in hell of being elected to the position of Prime Minister. How can someone with that much money relate to the average man in the street.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (29 July 2009)

Macquack said:


> One thing still alive and well in Australia is the "tall poppy syndrome".
> 
> The 2009 annual BRW list of the richest Australians put Turnbull at 182 of 200, with an estimated *net worth of $178 million*. Based on this alone, he has a snow flakes chance in hell of being elected to the position of Prime Minister. *[B]How can someone with that much money relate to the average man in the street*[/B].




More so than a career public servant turned politician type on the gravy train.


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## trainspotter (29 July 2009)

Old news is still news in my book. Multimillionare Kevin Rudd thinks that disclosure rules do not apply to him.

He has intentionally kept financial interests hidden from parliament despite the fact that his family company Invisage received over $160,000.00 in government funding over the last four years:

http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=145&ContentID=67402

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23520989-601,00.html

I think its about time that we all had a close look at Kevin Rudd financial affairs. He has used his influence within the labor party to build a multimillion dollar government contract empire for his business interests.

Alot of people take shots at Malcolm Turbull for being "an out of touch rich guy". But Kevin Rudd and his wife combined actually give Turnbull a genuine contest for the title: "Australia's richest parliamentarian". 

Of course the difference between Turnbull and Rudd is that Turbull made his fourtune in the private sector with no help from the government. In contrast, the Rudd family has made their money by securing lucrative government contracts.


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## Macquack (29 July 2009)

Fair point, Trainspotter. The difference is that Rudd is the PM and Turnbull the former merchant wanker will never be.


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## noco (29 July 2009)

Macquack said:


> One thing still alive and well in Australia is the "tall poppy syndrome".
> 
> The 2009 annual BRW list of the richest Australians put Turnbull at 182 of 200, with an estimated *net worth of $178 million*. Based on this alone, he has a snow flakes chance in hell of being elected to the position of Prime Minister. How can someone with that much money relate to the average man in the street.




Kevin Rudd has doen it with ease. He and his wife would make Malcolm Turbull look like a pauper!


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## Macquack (29 July 2009)

noco said:


> Kevin Rudd has doen it with ease. He and his wife would make *Malcolm Turbull look like a pauper*!





Got any references for that claim?


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## wayneL (29 July 2009)

Jeez, you can't half tell who the noble, virtuous and intelligent Liberal supporters are; and who the silly, deluded and sinful Labor supporters are.


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## trainspotter (29 July 2009)

Macquack said:


> Fair point, Trainspotter. The difference is that Rudd is the PM and Turnbull the former merchant wanker will never be.




The more he tries to become a politician the further away he gets. He is a businessman, through and through. Rudd was a career public servant, who now holds the top job as P.M. Groomed from the get go. You join the Labor Party you are joining the Union. Groomed and polished until shiny enough to be let loose on the unsuspecting public. How can Kevin Rudd relate to the "average man in the street" when he never has been one. Never been out of work, never had to run a company that was HIS, never had to get his hands dirty blah blah blah. You know my opinion on the man. 

Last time I looked it was the small business's that employ people who pay the tax to keep the good ship "Credit Card" afloat. Now we will be paying for this ballot box folly for a very loooooooooooong time to come as he repeatedly swipes the magnetic strip off the bit of plastic affectionately known as The Republic of Banana Land. Apparently in China they call him "Ching Ching" ... the sound of a cash register.


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## Julia (29 July 2009)

It's Snake Pliskin said:


> More so than a career public servant turned politician type on the gravy train.



Agree.  However, the punters don't care as long as they get their handouts.



trainspotter said:


> Old news is still news in my book. Multimillionare Kevin Rudd thinks that disclosure rules do not apply to him.
> 
> He has intentionally kept financial interests hidden from parliament despite the fact that his family company Invisage received over $160,000.00 in government funding over the last four years:
> 
> ...



That's quite true.  Mr Turnbull may have some lessons to learn in the political smarts department, but he has made his money from nothing.




wayneL said:


> Jeez, you can't half tell who the noble, virtuous and intelligent Liberal supporters are; and who the silly, deluded and sinful Labor supporters are.


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## trainspotter (29 July 2009)

*Rich entrepreneurs rise to the top of both sides of Australian politics*
The rise of Malcolm Turnbull to the position of Liberal leader means the top echelon of Australian politics is now dominated by two men who understand entrepreneurship – and whose families have become wealthy because of it. 

Turnbull has an extensive business background. He started out as a lawyer, quickly rising to prominence in Australia when he became Kerry Packer’s legal adviser in 1983 at the age of 28. In 1986 he hit the international headlines when he travelled to London and successfully defended former spy Peter Wright, whose memoirs the British intelligence service was trying to ban. A year later, Turnbull entered the world of investment banking in partnership with former NSW premier Neville Wran and Nick Whitlam (son of the former prime minister).

In 1994, Turnbull was the joint founder of OzEmail, along with Sean Howard, Trevor Kennedy, his wife, former Sydney mayor Lucy Turnbull. The business, which was Australia’s 33rd internet service provider and one of the pioneers in the fledgling Australian internet sector, eventually became the country’s second biggest ISP. In 1999 – at the height of the tech boom – the founders sold OzEmail to MCI WorldCom for $520 million, netting the Turnbulls $60 million.

Turnbull then went on to become managing director of Goldman Sachs and a leading figure in the republican movement. 

The Turnbull family’s wealth is now tied up in a series of investment vehicles, with extensive holdings in private companies and stakes in listed companies Melbourne IT, Cheviot Bridge, Commonwealth Bank, National Australia Bank, ANZ and Rubicor Group. The family also owns a large property portfolio centered around blue-chip Sydney suburbs.

In 2005, BRW magazine estimated Turnbull’s fortune at $133 million and while the recent fall in equity markets and asset values is likely to have affected his family wealth, *Turnbull would still be worth well over $100 million.*

*Kevin Rudd’s family fortune and his understanding of entrepreneurship stem from his wife Therese Rein,* who sold the Australian division of her successful recruitment business Igneus Limited last year in order to avoid potential conflicts of interest with Rudd. Rein retains a stake in Igneus (which continues to operate overseas) but her investments are now managed by a blind trust. *Earlier this year, BRW put her fortune at around $60 million*. 

So what is the impact of having a wealthy entrepreneur in the Lodge? 

Logically, small and medium businesses would expect to get a sympathetic ear from government, although the Rudd Government’s decision to slash $1 billion worth of SME programs in the federal budget in May shows this isn’t necessarily the case.

Turnbull is extremely well connected in business circles (indeed, Labor has used this against him at times) and in his first public comments as Opposition leader he has consistently stressed how thankful he is that Australia allowed his family (including his father and his wife) to grow businesses and make money.

“We know our job is to empower and enable the enterprise, the dreams, the ambitions of Australians,” he told reporters.

A whopping 83.7% of respondents to SmartCompany’s survey on Malcolm Turnbull said he would be better for small and medium business than Kevin Rudd. 

OMFG ... actual information that is useful for a change.


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## Mr J (30 July 2009)

Julia said:


> That's quite true.  Mr Turnbull may have some lessons to learn in the political smarts department, *but he has made his money from nothing*.




As far as I'm aware, that is not really the case. He recieved top-notch education, married some money, and become a lawyer for Packer. Along the way he got into business and then became an exec at Goldman Sachs. While he's certainly done well for himself, it's not really proper to say he made it from nothing. He started further up the ladder than most hope to finish.


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## dutchie (30 July 2009)

From my humble observations you either have it or you don't.

Malcolm will never be PM.


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## Datsun Disguise (30 July 2009)

dutchie said:


> From my humble observations you either have it or you don't.
> 
> Malcolm will never be PM.




That would have been said about Howard prior to his stint....


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## Julia (30 July 2009)

Mr J said:


> As far as I'm aware, that is not really the case. He recieved top-notch education, married some money, and become a lawyer for Packer. Along the way he got into business and then became an exec at Goldman Sachs. While he's certainly done well for himself, it's not really proper to say he made it from nothing. He started further up the ladder than most hope to finish.



Well, if all he had to start with was his education I reckon that's starting from nothing.  He was already pretty successful when he married Lucy.


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## noco (30 July 2009)

No word on Peter Costello nominationg at the last minute for the seat of Higgins!
Malcolm will rise from the ashes, dust himself off and be a  better  leader for the experience. Doubtful anyone will make the challenge. Kick the ETS out the door Malcolm and show some strength. That'll stir up the little weasel and his little mate Penny Wrong.


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## Mr J (30 July 2009)

Julia said:


> Well, if all he had to start with was his education I reckon that's starting from nothing.  He was already pretty successful when he married Lucy.




That education opens up many doors. He also met and worked for the right people, doors opening doors etc. He may have worked hard, but to suggest he started with nothing is just silly. He had a very healthy advantage over most.


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## stocksontheblock (30 July 2009)

noco said:


> How about Wilson Tuckey?????????




Sure why not? Lets see if we can clone Adolf, Mussolini, Genghis, and how about Bush (W). Hey why not have: PM (Adolf), Treasurer (Bush), Foreign Affairs (Mussolini), and Defence (Genghis).

What could possibly go wrong?


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## Buddy (30 July 2009)

stocksontheblock said:


> Sure why not? Lets see if we can clone Adolf, Mussolini, Genghis, and how about Bush (W). Hey why not have: PM (Adolf), Treasurer (Bush), Foreign Affairs (Mussolini), and Defence (Genghis).
> 
> What could possibly go wrong?




I dont' quite see your point stocks. Surely you are not suggesting the Wilson Tuckey is in the same league as those people. You may not agree with his views but that's a preposterous suggestion.

I don't know if Turnbull will survive but I wonder is Peter Costello smells blood. Here is a report that Costello backs Tuckey on ETS debate. http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25855506-11949,00.html
And the latest polls indicate that maybe, just maybe, the great unwashed are starting to see through rudds ploy in all this (which is simply a political game to split the liberals, and strengthen his power base).

Peter Costello still has time to do a Colin Barnett. If he's got the ticker, that is. The timing is in his favour and could be perfect.


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## trainspotter (30 July 2009)

Usual protocol would be for Tony Abbott to step up with Julie Bishop as Deputy. Mirror image of Kruddy and Gizzard but with a Liberal bent. Neither has the political nouse of current power players but would claw back some credibility until the "next" Liberal Leader with gonads, spit and polish comes along. This is the normal infighting that ALL oppositions go through whilst they jockey themselves into a position of factional support. Labor did it with Bomber Beazley/Crean/Latham/Bomber again then finally out of NOWHERE comes this snivelling little PIE FACE we call a P.M. Only a matter of time and keeping the gunpowder dry until the unrepresented swill will rise up from self flagellating and overpower this excretement of a human being that single handedly has plunged Australia to the bottom of the debt pile. IMO


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## noco (30 July 2009)

Buddy said:


> I dont' quite see your point stocks. Surely you are not suggesting the Wilson Tuckey is in the same league as those people. You may not agree with his views but that's a preposterous suggestion.
> 
> I don't know if Turnbull will survive but I wonder is Peter Costello smells blood. Here is a report that Costello backs Tuckey on ETS debate. http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25855506-11949,00.html
> And the latest polls indicate that maybe, just maybe, the great unwashed are starting to see through rudds ploy in all this (which is simply a political game to split the liberals, and strengthen his power base).
> ...




I believe today was the last chance for Peter Costello to nominate for the seat of Higgins or is tomorrow? I doubt he will change his mind unfortunately.


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## noco (30 July 2009)

trainspotter said:


> Usual protocol would be for Tony Abbott to step up with Julie Bishop as Deputy. Mirror image of Kruddy and Gizzard but with a Liberal bent. Neither has the political nouse of current power players but would claw back some credibility until the "next" Liberal Leader with gonads, spit and polish comes along. This is the normal infighting that ALL oppositions go through whilst they jockey themselves into a position of factional support. Labor did it with Bomber Beazley/Crean/Latham/Bomber again then finally out of NOWHERE comes this snivelling little PIE FACE we call a P.M. Only a matter of time and keeping the gunpowder dry until the unrepresented swill will rise up from self flagellating and overpower this excretement of a human being that single handedly has plunged Australia to the bottom of the debt pile. IMO




trainspotter, I still think Turnbull is the best bet that is if Costello does not make a late bid to renominate for the seat of Higgins.
Turnbull has had a father of a hidding in the past couple of weeks and that  could just be the makings of him. I learnt my lessons many years ago, if you can't fight best you be a good runner. I think Turnbull can come out in the next  round  a better fighter after taking some pretty heavy blows to the body.
Squash the ETS outright with the Nationals and people will respect him a lot more.


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## trainspotter (30 July 2009)

Noco, Malcolm Turnbull is appealing to the blue blood Liberals like me and you. To the general population he comes across as a spoon in the mouth dullard. The camera does not do him any favours and he has little political skill. GREAT businessman and DEEP THINKER but sh!thouse with the swinging voters and the average man in the street. What he says no one wants to hear at the moment and the press is mocking of him at best. Mr Rudd's PIE FACE is everywhere and even the cartoonists draw him as Tin Tin. They purvey Turnbull to be a square jawed undertaker. He cannot survive and the polls evidence his terrible misunderstanding of what the people of Banana Republic Land want.


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## 2020hindsight (30 July 2009)

hell - as if they'd change leaders now - ... I'm betting Malcolm wished he'd challenged Brendan Nelson much closer to the election   (the way Hawke challenged Hayden) 

no choice but to go through with it now - 

As for Tuckey, lol - what a joke he would make.  - already caught out on corruption ...
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=171157

Loved his statement a year back ... that "as far as this baby bonus goes ... ya know ... it shouldn't be means tested - and my reasoning is this ... in the racing industry, only the thoroughbreds are allowed to breed."  

Like , it's very expressive and all that,  -  (and I also worry about some elements of the baby bonus) ...  but likewise, I don't see him running a race more than 200 metres lol - especially if there was a pub along the way    Maybe he wouldn't be allowed to breed either in this "Brave New World" lol. 

Tuckey's comments have a lot in common with Keating ... 
e.g. Keating to McClelland (a fellow laborite) .. "just because you swallowed a dictionary when you were 15 doesn't give you the right to pour **** over the rest of us" etc etc etc . 

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=299861&highlight=wilson#post299861

Summary - interesting to have a beer at his pub ... but a bludy hopeless Lib leader


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## 2020hindsight (30 July 2009)

Meanwhile, the man Tuckey is so fond of crticising has many honourable points ...

For instance, Malcolm won a a Rhodes Scholarship in his own right  (studied at Oxford) etc - he also personally finances a scholarship at his old school Sydney Grammar.

And I can't see Wilson either
a) winning a Rhodes scholarship or 
b) sponsoring someone to go to any bloody school , let alone Sydney Grammar

But the thing that amuses me in that respect (given that Malcolm has to symbolically pour scorn on means testing etc)  is that his scholarship is means tested


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## noco (30 July 2009)

2020hindsight said:


> Meanwhile, the man Tuckey is so fond of crticising has many honourable points ...
> 
> For instance, Malcolm won a a Rhodes Scholarship in his own right  (studied at Oxford) etc - he also personally finances a scholarship at his old school Sydney Grammar.
> 
> ...



20/20 you don't need to be a Rhodes Scholar to be PM. All you need is to be well groomed in SPIN and BS and Rudd is a professional in that department.


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## 2020hindsight (30 July 2009)

noco said:


> 20/20 you don't need to be Rhodes Scholar to be PM.



still,   ... can't be a bad thing noco ..
Hawke was one too..
won 4 elections on the trot 

Personally I admired the work that Malcolm did trying to get the republic up and going - of course fighting off the SPIN and BS of Johnny Howard throughout.

PS what are we - on this republican issue?   men or bludy mice?  Let's hold nannie's apron strings for another 10 years.


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## Buckeroo (30 July 2009)

trainspotter said:


> Noco, Malcolm Turnbull is appealing to the blue blood Liberals like me and you. To the general population he comes across as a spoon in the mouth dullard. The camera does not do him any favours and he has little political skill. GREAT businessman and DEEP THINKER but sh!thouse with the swinging voters and the average man in the street. What he says no one wants to hear at the moment and the press is mocking of him at best. Mr Rudd's PIE FACE is everywhere and even the cartoonists draw him as Tin Tin. They purvey Turnbull to be a square jawed undertaker. He cannot survive and the polls evidence his terrible misunderstanding of what the people of Banana Republic Land want.




I understand what your saying trainspotter, but I think noco's got something when he say's there still time for Turnbull if he learns a few lessons. Howard had a tough time during the 80's & he always came back stronger.

And the labor party is really KRudd (the rest don't really count) - when he makes a mistake and I think he eventually will, it will mean a hammering not only for him, but the whole party.

Cheers


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## wayneL (30 July 2009)

Buckeroo said:


> And the labor party is really KRudd (the rest don't really count) - when he makes a mistake and I think he eventually will, it will mean a hammering not only for him, but the whole party.
> 
> Cheers




Missus wanted to go back to Oz. I played some recordings of KRudd, Dullard & Swine.

She's changed her mind. :


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## trainspotter (30 July 2009)

Buckeroo, John Winston Howard = Elected to parliament in 1974. Howard was the Treasurer from 1977 - 1983 under Malcolm Fraser. He was then leader of opposition 1985 til 1989. He got beaten up by Hawke/Keating and retreated to the back bench until 1995 when he became leader of the opposition again and won the election in 1996 In total 22 years BEFORE being made P.M. 

Comparing this to Malcolm Turnbull who entered politics in 2004 and became LOTO in 2008 really does not give him enough firepower in the political stakes IMO. 

I'm surprised she did not run out of the house screaming her lungs out with blood extruding from her ears WayneL


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## disarray (30 July 2009)

trainspotter said:


> Buckeroo, John Winston Howard = Elected to parliament in 1974. Howard was the Treasurer from 1977 - 1983 under Malcolm Fraser. He was then leader of opposition 1985 til 1989. He got beaten up by Hawke/Keating and retreated to the back bench until 1995 when he became leader of the opposition again and won the election in 1996 In total 22 years BEFORE being made P.M.




this also points to a lack of talent / charisma among federal political ranks. hang around long enough as other people implode and you'll get your shot eventually. 

i liked alexander downers take on leadership -



			
				Alexander Downer said:
			
		

> "The moment when I wanted to [leave] was just about the first day I started in the job. There was many a time from the first day onwards when I thought to myself, 'How the hell can I get out of this?"


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## Mr J (30 July 2009)

Turnbull has always seemed like he'd be a smug ****hole in real life, and a secondhand story of an encounter with him just confirms it. I don't want to see Turnbull as PM any more than I want to see Rudd retain the position. I could imagine having a drink with Bush, but not with Rudd, Turnbull or Obama. Maybe that's half of America voted for him each time - he comes across as less unlikeable.


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## Buckeroo (30 July 2009)

trainspotter said:


> Buckeroo, John Winston Howard = Elected to parliament in 1974. Howard was the Treasurer from 1977 - 1983 under Malcolm Fraser. He was then leader of opposition 1985 til 1989. He got beaten up by Hawke/Keating and retreated to the back bench until 1995 when he became leader of the opposition again and won the election in 1996 In total 22 years BEFORE being made P.M.
> 
> Comparing this to Malcolm Turnbull who entered politics in 2004 and became LOTO in 2008 really does not give him enough firepower in the political stakes IMO.
> 
> I'm surprised she did not run out of the house screaming her lungs out with blood extruding from her ears WayneL




I'm impressed, I'd have to do a bit of research to come up with a quick & accurate chronicle history of Howard - have you been reading his memoirs lately?

Cheers


----------



## trainspotter (30 July 2009)

Nahhhh ... just got me finger on the pulse when it comes to this kind of stuff. I started in the Liberal Party when I was 10 delivering pamphlets in the NT. Fascinates me it does. It is very cyclic and the Libs are only going through what Beazly/Crean/Latham/Beazly then RUNT Rudd went through not that long back when John W Howard had them by the goolies. The voting public are a bloody fickle bunch I tell ya !


----------



## trainspotter (30 July 2009)

Mr J said:


> Turnbull has always seemed like he'd be a smug ****hole in real life, and a secondhand story of an encounter with him just confirms it. I don't want to see Turnbull as PM any more than I want to see Rudd retain the position. I could imagine having a drink with Bush, but not with Rudd, Turnbull or Obama. Maybe that's half of America voted for him each time - he comes across as less unlikeable.




He can be as smug as he likes brudda. THIS MAN CAN ACTUALLY RUN A BUSINESS and the sooner we wake up that Australia is a very large business the better. Meglomaniac Rudd steering the good ship "Credit Card" has really given me the irrits. Same friggin mentality of every bloody Labor Party previous. SPEND SPEND SPEND like there is no tomorrow. ZERO fiscal responsibiltiy. Promise the earth and deliver SFA. Yet again.


----------



## Mr J (30 July 2009)

trainspotter said:


> He can be as smug as he likes brudda. THIS MAN CAN ACTUALLY RUN A BUSINESS and the sooner we wake up that Australia is a very large business the better. Meglomaniac Rudd *steering the good ship "Credit Card"* has really given me the irrits. Same friggin mentality of every bloody Labor Party previous. SPEND SPEND SPEND like there is no tomorrow. ZERO fiscal responsibiltiy. Promise the earth and deliver SFA. Yet again.






I believe Turnbull would run the country far more effectively, but I'd really prefer there be a good option that is also likeable. Might be too much to ask. It gets old watching the news, seeing the PM and thinking "what a wanker".


----------



## trainspotter (30 July 2009)

Which is why we should start the alternative party called *LABERAL.* Some of Labors ideas on keeping the Unions under control with a dash of Liberal free enterprise might be good? Work in harmony ... OMFG !!!!!!


----------



## Buckeroo (30 July 2009)

Mr J said:


> I believe Turnbull would run the country far more effectively, but I'd really prefer there be a good option that is also likeable. Might be too much to ask. It gets old watching the news, seeing the PM and thinking "what a wanker".




We'll I don't reckon Howard was all that likeable, but he had some exceptional talent behind him which he managed well

I'd prefer this than a likeable PM.

cheers


----------



## Buckeroo (30 July 2009)

trainspotter said:


> Which is why we should start the alternative party called *LABERAL.* Some of Labors ideas on keeping the Unions under control with a dash of Liberal free enterprise might be good? Work in harmony ... OMFG !!!!!!




MMmmm, sounds a bit like a dog - plus when you shorten it is still sound like labor (LAB)

Cheers


----------



## Hedders (30 July 2009)

I heard an interview of Malcolm's on ABC 92.5fm (NSW Central Coast) yesterday. He came across very poorly- when given opportunity to answer questions freely he waffled on and spent too much time trying to ridicule the nature of the questions he was asked. Poor old Malcolm needs to concentrate on delivering good alternative policies to Labour's in a clear, concise manner. You can beat Rudd with substance. He might do well to showcase the Liberal Party as a worthy brains trust in stark contrast to the singularly controlling figure of Rudd too. 

I'd advise Malcolm to take himself out of conversations as much as possible, because Joe Punter's not interested. On the other hand, given Labour's current procrastination over the public health system, the Libs should be in there trying to forge tangible, worthwhile reforms. It's a big card coming into the next election.


----------



## Macquack (30 July 2009)

Buckeroo said:


> I'm impressed, I'd have to do a bit of research to come up with a quick & accurate chronicle history of Howard - have you been reading his memoirs lately?
> 
> Cheers




Its called Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_howard


----------



## trainspotter (30 July 2009)

Rubbish Macquack .. it is called answers.com/johnhoward/primeminister ... so there !

(But now you mention it Macquack I will get some info from that source)

Turnbull needs to engage some PA's who can groom him a bit better. AND FAST !


----------



## trainspotter (30 July 2009)

Buckeroo said:


> MMmmm, sounds a bit like a dog - plus when you shorten it is still sound like labor (LAB)
> 
> Cheers




Well that's me stuffed then. I am fresh out of ideas now. (mutter mutter mutter)


----------



## Julia (30 July 2009)

Mr J said:


> That education opens up many doors. He also met and worked for the right people, doors opening doors etc. He may have worked hard, but to suggest he started with nothing is just silly. He had a very healthy advantage over most.



Well, if we were to follow your logic, every person who received a decent education should be able to run the country and should have acquired just as much wealth as Malcolm Turnbull.
I'm pretty sure I heard an ABC discussion about his early life, that his father wasn't around, and his single mother worked pretty long hours to pay for his education.  That's much less of a start than a lot of people.

Maybe you could give an example of what 'starting from nothing' actually comprises.



trainspotter said:


> Noco, Malcolm Turnbull is appealing to the blue blood Liberals like me and you. To the general population he comes across as a spoon in the mouth dullard. The camera does not do him any favours and he has little political skill. GREAT businessman and DEEP THINKER but sh!thouse with the swinging voters and the average man in the street. What he says no one wants to hear at the moment and the press is mocking of him at best. Mr Rudd's PIE FACE is everywhere and even the cartoonists draw him as Tin Tin. They purvey Turnbull to be a square jawed undertaker. He cannot survive and the polls evidence his terrible misunderstanding of what the people of Banana Republic Land want.



Yep I think you're absolutely right here, trainspotter.
Mr Turnbull really needs to learn some political savvy.   He's failing to understand that what works in the business world just doesn't translate to the average punter.


----------



## Buckeroo (30 July 2009)

trainspotter said:


> Well that's me stuffed then. I am fresh out of ideas now. (mutter mutter mutter)




Sorry transpotter, I'm being nit picky - I would suggest *LIBEROR *but it doesn't have the same omph.

Cheers


----------



## trainspotter (30 July 2009)

LOLOL ... we could get Tony Liberatore (small AFL player for Western Bulldogs many years ago)to be our spokesman !


----------



## Savoy Special (31 July 2009)

Hey Spot , Spotter , Spotticus , the Spotter of trains or just Trainspotter.(as I have seen you've been call previously).Liberal and the Nationals become one!


LIBER ATION (ALS)

The theme song by "The Village People" - Liberation


----------



## Mr J (31 July 2009)

Julia said:


> Well, if we were to follow your logic, every person who received a decent education should be able to run the country and should have acquired just as much wealth as Malcolm Turnbull.
> I'm pretty sure I heard an ABC discussion about his early life, that his father wasn't around, and his single mother worked pretty long hours to pay for his education.  That's much less of a start than a lot of people..




Julia, be reasonable. I made no such suggestion that his achievements were 'standard' or to be expected, just that he had a head start on most. He started with something, not nothing, and turned it into a lot of something by taking his opportunities. I never suggested he came from money or a connected family, but you can't seriously suggest that he hasn't started with an advantage in his top-notch education.



Buckeroo said:


> We'll I don't reckon Howard was all that likeable, but he had some exceptional talent behind him which he managed well
> 
> I'd prefer this than a likeable PM.
> 
> cheers




You mistunderstood, I was asking for a likeable and capable PM, which is why I commented that it may be too much to ask.


----------



## trainspotter (31 July 2009)

Savoy Special said:


> Hey Spot , Spotter , Spotticus , the Spotter of trains or just Trainspotter.(as I have seen you've been call previously).Liberal and the Nationals become one!
> 
> LIBER ATION (ALS)
> 
> The theme song by "The Village People" - Liberation




LMFAO ... Kinda gay but somehow catchy. I like it. Could see if we could get the copyright on the whole Che Guevara thing. No forget him he was a Marxist and a dirty Commie. But in death his brand has metamorphosised into a capitalist organisation. Hmmmmm .... maybe then. Will you join my party ?


----------



## queenslander55 (31 July 2009)

trainspotter said:


> ...THIS MAN CAN ACTUALLY RUN A BUSINESS... and the sooner we wake up that Australia is a very large business the better...




Couldn't agree more!!!  The sooner Australia can cut ties with the worldwide love affair with trying in vain to make politics work, get rid of politics altogether and replace the whole shebang with the best managerial talent available and give them the simple brief of running the country like a sucessful business, the better.


----------



## Mr J (31 July 2009)

queenslander55 said:


> Couldn't agree more!!!  The sooner Australia can cut ties with the worldwide love affair with trying in vain to make politics work, get rid of politics altogether and replace the whole shebang with the best managerial talent available and give them the simple brief of running the country like a sucessful business, the better.




Politics would still be an issue. Also, how do you ensure that they try to act in the best interests of a country?


----------



## queenslander55 (31 July 2009)

Mr J said:


> Politics would still be an issue. Also, how do you ensure that they try to act in the best interests of a country?




Ensure their level of remuneration was sufficient to alleviate any thoughts of corruption.  Pay peanuts and you get monkeys.


----------



## Gamblor (31 July 2009)

trainspotter said:


> He can be as smug as he likes brudda. THIS MAN CAN ACTUALLY RUN A BUSINESS and the sooner we wake up that Australia is a very large business the better. Meglomaniac Rudd steering the good ship "Credit Card" has really given me the irrits. Same friggin mentality of every bloody Labor Party previous. SPEND SPEND SPEND like there is no tomorrow. ZERO fiscal responsibiltiy. Promise the earth and deliver SFA. Yet again.




Yeah the liberals ran the Australia business so well that they spent nothing on growing the business (infrastructure). Good old costello, thinking he is the best treasurer ever, got lucky with a mining boom and squandered it on vote buying - not to mention the ultimate mistake of bringing in tax cuts that were only affordable if the mining boom continued - Yep lets talk about fiscal responsibility. Name one fantastic business on the ASX that doesn't use leverage? No one likes being in debt but we've had a global melt down for freaks sake.

All your jibber jabber about the good ship credit card and banana republic lands etc just makes you look silly. The Liberals would be in debt at the moment as well - to say otherwise means you failed to learn basic maths in school.


----------



## stocksontheblock (31 July 2009)

Buddy said:


> I dont' quite see your point stocks. Surely you are not suggesting the Wilson Tuckey is in the same league as those people. You may not agree with his views but that's a preposterous suggestion.




Preposterous? I dont think so! Maybe WT doesnt want to invade poland, or France, or China, or Iraq, yet his views are just as disgusting in many respects. Why not go the whole hog and have WT as PM, and have the new front bench of the Lib's filled with the redneck backward Queensland Nationals. If we are going to hell then lets do it right!

The one thing that politics and politicans lack is creedability. It wont come back - if it ever was there - yet for anyone to take the smallest interest it has to have creedibility, and suggesting people like WT just makes it more of a joke than it needs to be.


----------



## Buckeroo (31 July 2009)

Gamblor said:


> Yeah the liberals ran the Australia business so well that they spent nothing on growing the business (infrastructure). Good old costello, thinking he is the best treasurer ever, got lucky with a mining boom and squandered it on vote buying - not to mention the ultimate mistake of bringing in tax cuts that were only affordable if the mining boom continued - Yep lets talk about fiscal responsibility. Name one fantastic business on the ASX that doesn't use leverage? No one likes being in debt but we've had a global melt down for freaks sake.
> 
> All your jibber jabber about the good ship credit card and banana republic lands etc just makes you look silly. The Liberals would be in debt at the moment as well - to say otherwise means you failed to learn basic maths in school.




True the Libs would have raked up debt, but they would have spent the money on port upgrades, rail & road upgrades, basically all the infrastructure that would improve productivity for when the economy picks up.

Instead we get handouts where most of this money goes to overseas manufacturers. Or gymnasiums at schools which somehow are meant to improve teaching standards. Go figure

Cheers


----------



## Mr J (31 July 2009)

queenslander55 said:


> Ensure their level of remuneration was sufficient to alleviate any thoughts of corruption.  Pay peanuts and you get monkeys.




It doesn't necessarily work for executives in private business, so what makes it foolproof in public office? Pay them too little and you risk not attracting the talent, but pay them too much and people might go for the job for the wrong reasons (money), or they may just become sloths.

How do you propose to make the hiring process transparent? I don't think that is possible. Candidates will still be backed by people with agendas, and we'll have the same problem as we currently do. The difference will be that with no opposition, for better or worse, it will be easier to get something done.



			
				Gamblor said:
			
		

> All your jibber jabber about the good ship credit card and banana republic lands etc just makes you look silly.




I find it enjoyable.


----------



## ghotib (31 July 2009)

If Australia was a business, who would its customers be?

Ghoti


----------



## Macquack (31 July 2009)

Buckeroo said:


> True the Libs would have raked up debt, but they *would have spent the money on port upgrades, rail & road upgrades, basically all the infrastructure* that would improve productivity for when the economy picks up.
> 
> 
> Cheers



Pull the other leg, Buck.

It is not the Liberals philosophy to spend money on infrastructure. "The private sector are much better at doing everything."

The Liberals sold off 83% of Telstra, 100% of Sydney Airport and were pushing for the privatisation of the Snowy Mountains hydro-electricity scheme and at the same time spent sweet f... all on infrastructure.


----------



## trainspotter (1 August 2009)

ghotib said:


> If Australia was a business, who would its customers be?
> 
> Ghoti




China for one. We have 23% of the worlds urnaiom so I reckon North Korea would be interested with who we are. Ummmmm .... Don't we make Toyota Camry's here and export them to America? Aparently Western Australia has a ........... gold mine in Kalgoorlie, LNG on Barrow Island, iron ore deposits throughout the Midwest, Wheat exported to Iraq (our biggest customer) 800 million dollars crayfishing industry goees to Asia. Soooooo not much really ....... just to name a few. I could go on but it would take days.


----------



## trainspotter (1 August 2009)

Gamblor said:


> Yeah the liberals ran the Australia business so well that they spent nothing on growing the business (infrastructure). Good old costello, thinking he is the best treasurer ever, got lucky with a mining boom and squandered it on vote buying - not to mention the ultimate mistake of bringing in tax cuts that were only affordable if the mining boom continued - Yep lets talk about fiscal responsibility. Name one fantastic business on the ASX that doesn't use leverage? No one likes being in debt but we've had a global melt down for freaks sake.
> 
> All your jibber jabber about the good ship credit card and banana republic lands etc just makes you look silly. The Liberals would be in debt at the moment as well - to say otherwise means you failed to learn basic maths in school.




Whooopeeeeeeee .. look at me the naysayer looking silly. Repeat after me 315 BILLION DOLLARS ... I repeat 315 BILLION DOLLARS. It helps if you put you little finger on your bottom lip like Dr Evil. 315 BILLION DOLLARS. Bwaahhahahahahahhahahah hahah ahah ah aaaaaaaa !

*NEVER * in all of my posts have I once stated that Liberals would NOT be in the same quagmire as the LABOR party has dropped us in. I have consistently STATED that there was no need to give 42 BILLION dollars to the MUG PUNTERS in the street ($300 x9) Not once have I mentioned IF the Liberals could have done a better job.

ZERO DEBT ZERO DEBT ZERO DEBT .... PAID OFF 96 BILLION FROM KEATING ... SETUP FUTURE FUND (for preservation of Govt superannuation) You have been asleep at the wheel Gamblor if you think that LABOR is going to lead us out of this mess.Your heroic dogooder television addict of a leader has SOLD US DOWN THE RIVER.


----------



## trainspotter (1 August 2009)

Macquack said:


> Pull the other leg, Buck.
> 
> It is not the Liberals philosophy to spend money on infrastructure. "The private sector are much better at doing everything."
> 
> The Liberals sold off 83% of Telstra, 100% of Sydney Airport and were pushing for the privatisation of the Snowy Mountains hydro-electricity scheme and at the same time spent sweet f... all on infrastructure.




For once I agree with you Macquack. Liberal politics is TO PAY OFF DEBT. after that they are reall good for FLlCK ALL. They usually spend it on a WAR CHEST to help themselves at the next election. Great toe cutters but sh!thouse on rewarding the mug punters for putting them there. 

If you read my previous posts you will see I have repeatedly said this is CYCLIC. Labor gets in and SPEND SPEND SPEND like a drunken sailor. We the voting public get sick of this real quick. Liberals get in and reduce DEBT.

GAMBLOR .... notice above no "silly" rhetoric about "CREDIT CARD" or "BANANA REPUBLIC LAND" .... just the facts M'aam ... just the facts.


----------



## trainspotter (1 August 2009)

Mr J said:


> It doesn't necessarily work for executives in private business, so what makes it foolproof in public office? Pay them too little and you risk not attracting the talent, but pay them too much and people might go for the job for the wrong reasons (money), or they may just become sloths.
> 
> How do you propose to make the hiring process transparent? I don't think that is possible. Candidates will still be backed by people with agendas, and we'll have the same problem as we currently do. The difference will be that with no opposition, for better or worse, it will be easier to get something done.
> 
> I find it enjoyable.




Most people go into politics for 2 reasons:

1) They want to make a difference and are prepared to defend their ideals. (factional support sorts these wankers out real quick)

2) Voter backlash .... "Lets put up a DUMBKOPF against incumbent person in this electorate." they say "Ohhhhhhhh sheeeeeet .. he/she/it won on preferences?" they wonder ... and finally "Whose idea was it to put the guy who stacks shelves at Woolworths against the incumbent ?" they finally realise. OH DEARY DEARY ME  ???????????? 

**Thanks goes to Mr J for finding my eloquence enjoyable**


----------



## trainspotter (1 August 2009)

stocksontheblock said:


> Preposterous? I dont think so! Maybe WT doesnt want to invade poland, or France, or China, or Iraq, yet his views are just as disgusting in many respects. Why not go the whole hog and have WT as PM, and have the new front bench of the Lib's filled with the redneck backward Queensland Nationals. If we are going to hell then lets do it right!
> 
> The one thing that politics and politicans lack is creedability. It wont come back - if it ever was there - yet for anyone to take the smallest interest it has to have creedibility, and suggesting people like WT just makes it more of a joke than it needs to be.




This would explain many things like Matt Birney and Bob Brown for instance. More d!ckheads in parliamnet the better I reckon. We voted for them so we deserve them !!!!!!!! WAKE UP AUSTRALIA !!!!!! WAKE UP !!!!!!


----------



## trainspotter (1 August 2009)

Post #74 should have been *URANIUM*

Sorry for the confusion. Just ramping the thread to the magic 100 barrier.


----------



## noco (1 August 2009)

Ha people can we get back to the original thread. You are all going off on your own tangent that does not really have any relevance.

"Can Malcolm Turnbull rise from the ashes?".

I believe he can because the odds are now turning against Rudd. Sooner or later he (Rudd) is going to come really unstuck. To be a good liar you have to have a good memory.

The polls may make him look like he can walk on water, but look what happened to JC when they put holes through his feet.


----------



## trainspotter (1 August 2009)

*WHEN it came to Malcolm Turnbull's self-inflicted wounds last week, it was one of John Howard's former advisers who offered the analogy of the hunter and the fox, Kevin Rudd being the fox. *

The way hunters normally proceed, said the former adviser, was to approach the thicket where the fox is hiding and send in the faithful hound. What follows is an almighty racket as fur and flesh fly.

The experienced hunter does not move, he waits patiently for the fox to stick its head out and then "boom!", he pulls the trigger. "Malcolm," the former adviser drily observed "dispensed with the hound and went into the bushes himself."

What we now know is it's not the fox that's emerged ripped and wounded, but Turnbull, the putative hunter.* It's been a bloody mess for the Liberals.*

So Turnbull, the political neophyte, was done over by a superior Labor machine which proved itself ruthless in its pursuit of an Opposition leader it now judges to have fatal character flaws.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/turnbull-outfoxed-by-rudd/story-e6frezz0-1225741644345

Put a fork in him .... he is DONE !


----------



## Buckeroo (1 August 2009)

Macquack said:


> Pull the other leg, Buck.
> 
> It is not the Liberals philosophy to spend money on infrastructure. "The private sector are much better at doing everything."
> 
> The Liberals sold off 83% of Telstra, 100% of Sydney Airport and were pushing for the privatisation of the Snowy Mountains hydro-electricity scheme and at the same time spent sweet f... all on infrastructure.




I don't dispute what your saying and its great that the Libs do get private enterprise involved - why put the taxpayer in debt at a time of plenty. Many countries did this to their detriment.

Now, the Libs would have used stimulus in the event of the financial crises, I don't think there's any doubt here. And they would have spent it on infrastructure to improve productivity just as they always did.

So how can I be pulling any leg?

Cheers


----------



## noco (1 August 2009)

trainspotter said:


> *WHEN it came to Malcolm Turnbull's self-inflicted wounds last week, it was one of John Howard's former advisers who offered the analogy of the hunter and the fox, Kevin Rudd being the fox. *
> 
> The way hunters normally proceed, said the former adviser, was to approach the thicket where the fox is hiding and send in the faithful hound. What follows is an almighty racket as fur and flesh fly.
> 
> ...




Excellant analogy trianspotter, that's another lesson for Turnbull to write in his diary, but don't forget he is still alive and while he is still breathing he will live to fight another day.


----------



## trainspotter (1 August 2009)

*thanks very much noco* Malcolm Turnbull is on the same level as John Hewson. Self made, merchant banker, economist blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda. Look what happened to him ----------> LOST the unlosable election.


----------



## 2020hindsight (1 August 2009)

trainspotter said:


> What we now know is it's not the fox that's emerged ripped and wounded, but Turnbull, the putative hunter.* It's been a bloody mess for the Liberals.*



Yep, you'd have to say it's been downhill for the libs - and pretty steep downhill - certainly since the  Lindsay pamphlet episode, if not before


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (1 August 2009)

Its time for Tony Abbott to step up to the leadership of the Libs.

Watching Rudd and the unions at the Labor Conference made me physically sick.

gg


----------



## trainspotter (1 August 2009)

Hear hear Garpal Gumnut.

http://www.crikey.com.au/topic/tony-abbott/ a lot of other people think so as well.


----------



## Buckeroo (1 August 2009)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Its time for Tony Abbott to step up to the leadership of the Libs.
> 
> Watching Rudd and the unions at the Labor Conference made me physically sick.
> 
> gg




Not sure on that double g - he'd have us singing out of hymn books before you could say Garpal Gumnut. 

Nice guy with high moral standards, but maybe a little too high for most of us.

Cheers


----------



## queenslander55 (4 August 2009)

Now that the truth about utegate is out...no!


----------



## Tink (4 August 2009)

queenslander55 said:


> Now that the truth about utegate is out...no!




Oh well, he has himself to blame..

He should have realised that no one else in his party agreed with him, but he became so obsessed with the stupid thing, boring us to tears in the meantime..

Next......


----------



## queenslander55 (4 August 2009)

Buckeroo said:


> ...Now, the Libs would have used stimulus in the event of the financial crises, I don't think there's any doubt here. And they would have spent it on infrastructure to improve productivity just as they always did.




I think that it behooves you Bucky my boy to at the very least give us lesser mortals some historical example of this Liberal instigated infrastructure spending.  To my knowledge, I can't think of a single example that backs up your extraordinary claims.


----------



## trainspotter (4 August 2009)

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Noooooooooooooooooo  not this old chestnut again. The Libs did not spend a single cent on infrastructure which is why the establishment is falling down around our ears. Deary, deary me QLD55 ... google rummage some facts before making outlandish critiques in future.


----------



## queenslander55 (4 August 2009)

trainspotter said:


> Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Noooooooooooooooooo  not this old chestnut again. The Libs did not spend a single cent on infrastructure which is why the establishment is falling down around our ears. Deary, deary me QLD55 ... google rummage some facts before making outlandish critiques in future.




Well Trainspotter...an example please?


----------



## trainspotter (4 August 2009)

http://www.google.com.au/ look it up yourself.


----------



## trainspotter (4 August 2009)

The Liberal / Howard Government were probably too busy paying off *96 BILLION DOLARS *of debt left by ... you guessed correctly .. *LABOR / KEATING YEARS.* 

Did the Liberals set up the Regional Development Infrastructure Fund? 

Do some research then we can "chat".


----------



## Fishbulb (4 August 2009)

noco said:


> Malcom Turnbull has hit his lowest at 16% approval rating. It is the same level that saw the demise of Brendan Nelson.
> Is there really anybody else in the Liberal Party that can fill his shoes.
> How about Wilson Tuckey?????????




At first, I didn't think so. But Howard did well didn't he? And that was after what? Three attempts at it? I realise it's a different situation, but I don't think one can discount a lazarus impersonation by Turnbull. 

He screwed up royal with his impatient and unresearched email debacle, but it wasn't as if he messed up important economic factors was it?


----------



## queenslander55 (4 August 2009)

trainspotter said:


> The Liberal / Howard Government were probably too busy paying off *96 BILLION DOLARS *of debt left by ... you guessed correctly .. *LABOR / KEATING YEARS.*
> 
> Did the Liberals set up the Regional Development Infrastructure Fund?
> 
> Do some research then we can "chat".




No need for self righteous false indignation my friend, simple question...simple answer, thank you.


----------



## trainspotter (4 August 2009)

MORE than half the "nation-building infrastructure" spending that made up the budget's self-proclaimed "centrepiece" initiative was, in fact, money set aside by the Howard government.

Despite Wayne Swan's budget sales pitch about having to take hard decisions because the Coalition squandered the proceeds of the decade-long commodity boom, $9 billion of the infrastructure funding he announced last night came from the Howard government's $6.5 billion higher education fund and the $2.5billion communications fund the Coalition set up to win the Nationals' support for the sale of the final tranche of Telstra. 

Under the Howard Government, infrastructure increased from - spending across the nation - increased from 3% of GDP to 5.3% of GDP, and GDP doubled over the 11 years of Liberal Government. 

*$10 billion Murray Darling rescue plan was designed to tackle long-term issues.*


----------



## Beej (4 August 2009)

trainspotter said:


> The Liberal / Howard Government were probably too busy paying off *96 BILLION DOLARS *of debt left by ... you guessed correctly .. *LABOR / KEATING YEARS.*




If you are going to be pedantic - a lot of that debt was actually left over from the FRASER/HOWARD years...... in the 80s the Hawke Keating government ran the first commonwealth budget surpluses seen since the 50s, and paid off about half the debt that THEY inherited from the previous mob, but the 90s recession hit before the job could be completed.

But don't let facts get in the way of your one-eyed views! 

Cheers,

Beej


----------



## trainspotter (4 August 2009)

*True Beej there was some of the debt leftover from Little Johnny and cohorts*.

Howard as treasurer left a deficit/black hole/gross debt of over *6 billion*, does that prove he's a bad economic manager.. not necessarily, it proves that he's an economic realist.

*And this is how it happened.*

Fraser's negotiations with the ACTU saw him lose control of a wages explosion in 1982 just as the mining boom had ended. The economic crisis of the early 1980s brought Howard into conflict with the economically conservative Fraser. As the economy headed towards the worst recession since the 1930s, Keynesian Fraser pushed an expansionary fiscal position much to Howard's and Treasury's horror. The 1982 wages explosion—wages rose 16 per cent across the country—resulted in stagflation; unemployment touched double-digits and inflation peaked at 12.5% (official interest rates peaked at 21%)

Just the facts Maam, just the facts.


----------



## trainspotter (4 August 2009)

What Wayne Swan didn’t tell you was that by 2012 your share of Government Debt will be $8308. Your wife, your husband, each of your kids, your Mum, your Dad, your siblings – each and every one of them $8308 in the red.

When Paul Keating handed back the keys to the Treasury in 1996, that figure was $5258. It took John Howard and Peter Costello nine years to bring us back into the black. All that talk of “temporary borrowings” scattered through the Budget papers sounds more than a little ambitious.

One eyed ALRIGHT ... LOLOLOL


----------



## Beej (4 August 2009)

trainspotter said:


> *True Beej there was some of the debt leftover from Little Johnny and cohorts*.
> 
> Howard as treasurer left a deficit of over *6 billion*, does that prove he's a bad economic manager.. not necessarily, it proves that he's an economic realist.
> 
> ...




Nice sleight of hand - you are talking about a DEFICIT there (ie the budget shortfall for one year), whereas in your previous post you were referring to the GROSS DEBT figure (ie the total accumulated gross commonwealth debt). Completely different. 

What was the GROSS DEBT let by Fraser/Howard? What was that as a % of GDP in 1982 compared to Labors $96B in 1996 as a % of GDP?

The rest of your post sounds more like opinion trying to explain how/why little Johnny screwed things up completely in his previous life....

Cheers,

Beej


----------



## trainspotter (4 August 2009)

More statistics than you can poke a stick at here. Not an opinion either. Just the facts.

http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/RN/2004-05/05rn10.htm


----------



## trainspotter (4 August 2009)

My mistake on the figures on a few posts back. Fraser/Howard left Australian in the red for this amount = 9 billion. Sorry for the confusion. 

It was on the weekend 17 -18th July when Howard went to see Fraser and advised him he could not publicise and sell a budget with a deficit of between 5 to 6 billion dollars. Political suicide basically. Read the book by Paul Kelly called "The Hawke Ascendancy" it covers the topic with incredible detail as to WHY this came about. Not my opinion. Just the facts as to what really happened.


----------



## queenslander55 (4 August 2009)

trainspotter said:


> MORE than half the "nation-building infrastructure" spending that made up the budget's self-proclaimed "centrepiece" initiative was, in fact, money set aside by the Howard government.
> 
> Despite Wayne Swan's budget sales pitch about having to take hard decisions because the Coalition squandered the proceeds of the decade-long commodity boom, $9 billion of the infrastructure funding he announced last night came from the Howard government's $6.5 billion higher education fund and the $2.5billion communications fund the Coalition set up to win the Nationals' support for the sale of the final tranche of Telstra.
> 
> ...




Hey Spotty, I love the way you 'liberally' (pardon the pun) use the terms like *"set aside" *and *"set up" *in relation to the wonderful contribution to world order that was the Howard Government.

What you neglect to point out is that these or most of these initiatives were precisely as you say "set up" or "set aside" and never to this time actualised in the way of 'on the ground' evidence.

Now let me see...if i've got $xxx,xxx,xxx,xxx,xxx,xxx,xxx.00 per year pouring in from everywhere there is a hole in the ground being dug or a bore being sunk halfway from here to the Indos.  What's the best way of keeping the population anaesthetised, oops I meant content and thinking 'What a good job the Government is doing' and meanwhile squirrel away as much as possible and syphon off as much as posible to maximise partisan political media propaganda that (theoretically) ensures a comfortable re-election.

*"I Know"!!!*

*Set up these infrastructure funds!*

...who ever said you actually had to implement them...pfft you are not worthy of calling yourself a quote "Big Boy"!


----------



## trainspotter (4 August 2009)

Hey QLD55 ..... Under the Howard Government, infrastructure increased from - *spending across the nation* - increased from 3% of GDP to 5.3% of GDP, and GDP doubled over the 11 years of Liberal Government. 

It seems no matter how much you try and educate someone they still don't get it do they? Never to fear, they will be teaching how to read in school soon.

If you have bothered to read some of my previous posts I have enraged the same message as you about the Liberal Party and the massive war chests they build for election promises/pork barreling/future funds etc ad nauseum. This is why we vote them in. To pay off debt and to put money aside. We grow tired of this and get Labor in who spend like drunken sailors. Yipppeeeee.

REFER TO POST #101 for evidence. Oh and post #103 ... just click on the link it will take you to the comparisons of the Liberal vs Labor in the minutest detail of their spending habits. Ooopsies.

Yours Truly,

Big Boy


----------



## queenslander55 (4 August 2009)

trainspotter said:


> Hey QLD55 ..... Under the Howard Government,... We grow tired of this and get Labor in who spend like drunken sailors. Yipppeeeee.




or the more correct version



> We grow tired of this and get Labor in who *Actually *spend like drunken sailors.



 Thank God...


----------



## trainspotter (4 August 2009)

Great stuff QLD55. The next 20 years is gonna hurt with 315 BILLION DOLLARS worth of debt hanging around your neck. *Yay ... very feebly* 

Thank God alright (is that what Kevin calls himslef now?) 

Refer to "Does Kevin Rudd inspire confidence" thread for more startling facts.

Back to the topic. No ... Malcolm is done like a dogs dinner.


----------



## 2020hindsight (4 August 2009)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/08/04/2645851.htm?section=justin

wow the only dealer Grech helped was apparently a Liberal supporter 
PS you'd have to say that Rederob was right all aong .  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






> He [grech] has also hit back at the auditor-general's findings that he favoured one car dealer who was a Liberal supporter.
> 
> Mr Grech says he was only trying to find a way to help the dealer who rang him several times a day and told him he *was thinking of killing himself *because his business was under threat.






> "Essentially, they expected me, largely on my own in both a physically and *mentally impaired *  state, to land a major public policy initiative as well as to deal with some sensitive and challenging dealer representations," he said.




so the Liberal-supporter dealer (seriously considering suicide) was ringing Grech  (in a mentally impaired state).  and between them they decided to slip a few bucks his way.    
PS Grech should maybe be put in charge of mental health payouts?


----------



## trainspotter (4 August 2009)

Today's admission by Mr Grech that he faked the email has coincided with the release of the auditor-general's report into the affair, which has cleared Prime Minister Kevin Rudd and Treasurer Wayne Swan of any wrongdoing. 

Bring back rederob. He would feel vindicated in this matter. 

Malcolm Turnbull is dead in the water. Mercilessly the senate will turn on him a' la Julius Caesar style.


----------



## 2020hindsight (4 August 2009)

Agreed, (re Turnbull's future) ...
but another observation trainspotter ... 

were this at the early stages of this matter - of the alleged misdemeanour,  (eg the early days of the "has Rudd mislead" thread),  there would be a lot more than 1 post in 80 minutes from the Lib supporters around here.   

It would seem that the Lab supporters are "less inclined to squeel" by nature.


----------



## trainspotter (4 August 2009)

Ummmm .... still reckon Rudd and Swan misled paliament. They knew exactly what was going on. If they did not then they should not be the captain of the ship. Circumstantial evidence was there with enough smoke to set off the detectors. Guilty by association.

Malcolm Turnbull in a China shop is as dead as a dodo. Grovelling apology scenes will follow with a contrite look on his face. Soon to be followed by the traditional dagger in the back from the rear guard.


----------



## 2020hindsight (4 August 2009)

trainspotter said:


> Ummmm .... still reckon Rudd and Swan misled paliament. ..



well - knowing how you like to post strange posts / images ... I'll restrain myself to this one (or two or three) ..  :eek3:


----------



## Buckeroo (4 August 2009)

trainspotter said:


> Ummmm .... still reckon Rudd and Swan misled paliament. They knew exactly what was going on. If they did not then they should not be the captain of the ship. Circumstantial evidence was there with enough smoke to set off the detectors. Guilty by association.
> 
> Malcolm Turnbull in a China shop is as dead as a dodo. Grovelling apology scenes will follow with a contrite look on his face. Soon to be followed by the traditional dagger in the back from the rear guard.




You never know, but KRudd may get caught up in this Queensland commotion - his spin will have to be damn good if anything comes out with his name on it.

Anyway, I still think Turnbull's the best of the bunch. And really, he has still done nothing wrong. Yes, he can be accused of being politically naive - so what, he's a successful business man, with much to learn in a new field.

Give him time, as I'm sure KRudd will eventually hang himself and Government will be sitting on a platter for the opposition to take the reins.

Cheers


----------



## trainspotter (4 August 2009)

2020hindsight said:


> well - knowing how you like to post strange posts / images ... I'll restrain myself to this one (or two or three) ..  :eek3:




I am calling my spiritual advisor / guru and advising him of your position. Also having this post  / quote sent to the picture framers and having it placed under glass to hang in my secret mens business room.  Have also placed head out the window to see if the sky has fallen. OMFG !!!!!!


----------



## 2020hindsight (4 August 2009)

trainspotter said:


> I am calling my spiritual advisor / guru and advising him of your position. Also having this post  / quote sent to the picture framers and having it placed under glass to hang in my secret mens business room.  Have also placed head out the window to see if the sky has fallen. OMFG !!!!!!




ts - 
1. you claim that Rudd mislead parliament
2. you agree that Turnbull is stuffed because he claimed just that
3. your inconsistencies can't be bailed out with bs / bravado / bluster etc


----------



## trainspotter (4 August 2009)

Your'e spreading yourself a bit thin their old chap. Not up to the usual standards I am afraid. You are just like the newspaper hacks we have in this country. Can't find a story so invent one.

1) Agree ... I reckoned by the way, not claimed.
2) Agree ... I reckon Turnbull is as popular as fart in an elevator atm. NOT because of the claims he made in parliament at all 2020. If you read the posts I have constantly said THE WAY HE HAS HANDLED THE WHOLE AFFAIR. Fox hunting analogy etc, should have checked his facts before going off half cocked etc, You would think if he was such a hot shot lawyer he would have more debating skills etc. Are you picking up what I am putting down ???
3) It is what it is 2020. No more no less. Call it what you will my little servile factotum.


----------



## queenslander55 (4 August 2009)

trainspotter said:


> I am calling my spiritual advisor / guru and advising him of your position. Also having this post / quote sent to the picture framers and having it placed under glass to hang in my secret mens business room.  Have also placed head out the window to see if the sky has fallen. OMFG !!!!!!





:Jesus..."Please don't kiss me on the cheek"

:Judas..."Go f*ck yourself, trainspotter said it was ok!"


----------



## trainspotter (4 August 2009)

LOL with QLD55 ... If the Trainman says it's OK then it's fine with me.

I believe that Malcolm Turnbull has taken too many body blows to keep on boxing at the same level with Kruddy747. Not enough media savvy and spin to keep the public entertained.


----------



## 2020hindsight (4 August 2009)

trainspotter said:


> Your'e spreading yourself a bit thin their old chap. Not up to the usual standards I am afraid. You are just like the newspaper hacks we have in this country. Can't find a story so invent one.
> 
> 1) Agree ... I reckoned by the way, not claimed.
> 2) Agree ... I reckon Turnbull is as popular as fart in an elevator atm. NOT because of the claims he made in parliament at all 2020. If you read the posts I have constantly said THE WAY HE HAS HANDLED THE WHOLE AFFAIR. Fox hunting analogy etc, should have checked his facts before going off half cocked etc, You would think if he was such a hot shot lawyer he would have more debating skills etc. Are you picking up what I am putting down ???
> 3) It is what it is 2020. No more no less. Call it what you will my little servile factotum.




ok 
correction ... await your confirmation ... 
you claim that when Turnbull said that Rudd mislead parliament it was "true"

but the basis for that (namely the Greck email - and the mutually - tutored - Godwin Grech - Malcolm Turnbull - Eric Abetz -senate enquiry - conspiracy) was a catastophe?

Is that more accurate?

PS btw, Do you accept that Rudd was far more brave than Howard in that he kept the same public servants when he won power - whereas Howard changed many to his lakies?

btw, it may surprise you to know that I completely agreed with rederob when - what - half a dozen of you were stating the opposite   (hiding to nothing )

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=458818&highlight=grech#post458818


----------



## 2020hindsight (4 August 2009)

2020hindsight said:


> when half a dozen of you were stating the opposite   (hiding to nothing )



speaking of hiding ..
where the heck are they ???


----------



## queenslander55 (4 August 2009)

trainspotter said:


> Hear hear Garpal Gumnut.
> 
> http://www.crikey.com.au/topic/tony-abbott/ a lot of other people think so as well.




Well boys and girls, dust off your crumpled St. James's, adopt the subserviant position and get ready to meet your maker...

God's about to take over Canberra!!!


----------



## 2020hindsight (4 August 2009)

trainspotter said:


> 1. I believe that Malcolm Turnbull has taken too many body blows to keep on boxing at the same level with Kruddy747.
> 2. Not enough media savvy and spin to keep the public entertained.



1. I agree
2. I disagree . I think it's more likely he's been stupidly lead astray by reading posts by a few lib fanatics on ASF.


----------



## trainspotter (4 August 2009)

Just reread post #117 for the answer 2020.  Derrrrrrr

I still cannot for the life of me understand what the hell you are on about? Has your genius suddenly become so powerful that you can read minds now or are you trying to put words in my posts that are simply not there?

PS ... not even going to validate this baited and bloated slime line.

btw ...  Well goody for you. Do you want a gold star? Once again your comprehension astounds me with your inabilty to grasp the most basic of concepts. I repeatedly used big words like "circumstantial evidence" and "wheelbarrow" and "guilt by association" to demonstrate my case point argument my little unctuous advocate. Good luck.

Malcolm Turnbulls inability to "pin the tail on the donkey" has made him look lacking in the publics eye. Ergo he should go.


----------



## trainspotter (4 August 2009)

queenslander55 said:


> Well boys and girls, dust off your crumpled St. James's, adopt the subserviant position and get ready to meet your maker...
> 
> God's about to take over Canberra!!!




And the sooner the better IMO. At least the lions wont eat him!! Kruddy might though?


----------



## 2020hindsight (4 August 2009)

ts -  let me summarise (diplomatically as I'm capable of)

1. you still claim Rudd mislead parliament 
2. and I can't see on what evidence you base this 
happy now?
cheers 
2020


----------



## trainspotter (4 August 2009)

LMFAO @ you now 2020. You obviously were not in the same thread as the one that rederob was in were you? Save it for another time my little approbative emissary, we have had this discussion already.

Malcolm Turnbull was a rooster now he is a feather duster.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25877628-5013871,00.html


----------



## 2020hindsight (4 August 2009)

trainspotter said:


> LMFAO @ you now 2020. You obviously were not in the same thread as the one that rederob was in were you? Save it for another time my little approbative emissary, we have had this discussion already.
> 
> Malcolm Turnbull was a rooster now he is a feather duster.
> 
> http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25877628-5013871,00.html



rooster - feather duster 

roflmao also
we agree at the end of the day 

next question - was the rooster related to the dinosaur ?  - ever watched roosters fighting 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fightingdinosamnh2.jpg

PS By "dinosaur" - read Johnny H  I guess


----------



## queenslander55 (4 August 2009)

Hey Spotty!
Just read your rap with the venerable Mr. Burns concerning your penchant for timepieces...may I suggest you exercise a modicum of caution?  You and Burnsy are in real danger of disappearing up the backside of your own overstated opulence. ......psssst....don't tell anyone, but i'm secretly green with envy and that was the true impetus of your waffle after all.  Wasn't it?


----------



## Macquack (4 August 2009)

2020hindsight said:


> I think it's more likely he's (Turnbull) been stupidly lead astray by reading posts by a few lib fanatics on ASF.




Good stuff 2020.


----------



## trainspotter (4 August 2009)

queenslander55 said:


> Hey Spotty!
> Just read your rap with the venerable Mr. Burns concerning your penchant for timepieces...may I suggest you exercise a modicum of caution?  You and Burnsy are in real danger of disappearing up the backside of your own overstated opulence. ......psssst....don't tell anyone, but i'm secretly green with envy and that was the true impetus of your waffle after all.  Wasn't it?




Maaaaaaaaaaate ... that's only the half of it you are getting. LOL  I think there is an old thread in here called "the rich guys" or something similar? I am so far up there I can see my back teeth. Pfffffffffftttttt !!


----------



## trainspotter (4 August 2009)

Macquack said:


> Good stuff 2020.




Hey Macquack. Just keep it brief. OK.


----------



## 2020hindsight (4 August 2009)

trainspotter said:


> Hey Macquack. Just keep it brief. OK.



yep


----------



## 2020hindsight (4 August 2009)

2020hindsight said:


> yep



afterall
brevity is the soul of wit
and the loud laugh betrays the vacant mind


----------



## 2020hindsight (4 August 2009)

ts 
ok - here's (another) chance to explain your position...
if you don't mind me saying so, you have an admirable defence - namely happy hour...

like between posts #110 and #112 you arguably do a 180degree u-turn ...
only explainable by ???  a few beers ??



			
				trainspotter said:
			
		

> auditor-general's report.. has cleared Prime Minister Kevin Rudd and Treasurer Wayne Swan of any wrongdoing...





			
				trainspotter post #112 said:
			
		

> Ummmm .... still reckon Rudd and Swan misled paliament.


----------



## trainspotter (4 August 2009)

I will indulge you this one last go 2020. This topic has been discussed and it is finished. Go and dig up the old thread that got shutdown for my point of view on this matter. You will see clear and concise reasoning behind my logical reckoning. As for the beer swilling crack ... HEY ... I resemble that remark ... but not tonight my little adulatory proctor.

Malcolm Turnbull has burnt the clutch out on this one trying to gain traction from the tar baby he landed himself in.


----------



## 2020hindsight (4 August 2009)

trainspotter said:


> Malcolm Turnbull has burnt the clutch out on this one trying to gain traction from the tar baby he landed himself in.



agree...
PS  born and bred in the briar patch brer rabbit 

PS I think my references to happy hour might have been equally plausible btw.  Don't be ashamed to say you have a beer now and then grasshopper ...


----------



## 2020hindsight (5 August 2009)

PS - just thinking on that Tar Baby story
http://www.americanfolklore.net/folktales/ga2.html

I'm guessing that that's a bit relevant on a couple of levels
1. Malcolm found hisself stuck to the tar baby by his fists, (as you say ts) viz...



> "I'll learn ya!" Brer Rabbit yelled. He took a swing at the cute little Tar Baby and his paw got stuck in the tar.
> 
> "Lemme go or I'll hit you again," shouted Brer Rabbit. The Tar Baby, she said nothing.
> 
> "Fine! Be that way," said Brer Rabbit, swinging at the Tar Baby with his free paw. Now both his paws were stuck in the tar, and Brer Fox danced with glee behind the bushes.




2. but, sadly for him, he was not born and bred in the political briar patch he ended up in.


----------



## GumbyLearner (5 August 2009)

2020hindsight said:


> PS - just thinking on that Tar Baby story
> http://www.americanfolklore.net/folktales/ga2.html
> 
> I'm guessing that that's a bit relevant on a couple of levels
> ...




Hats off to Mal for having a go. I know he was great as a barrister in the spycatcher case but he seems to have been a gullible moron with regard to Gordon Grech! 

Maybe he needed a GOOD Brief! As all lawyers do!

Get out Mal while you can, you are not made for the *obvious* 'n' tumble. :


----------



## 2020hindsight (5 August 2009)

Yep agree gumby - 
and don't bark if you've got dogs to bark for you.  
We should have a poll on how long we reckon he'll stay in politics.

PS but I have to hand it to ts - best description of Mal's predicament I've heard yet 



trainspotter said:


> ... burnt the clutch out on this one trying to gain traction from the tar baby he landed himself in.


----------



## knocker (5 August 2009)

Let Krudd run the country for another 1 or 2 terms. About time the country got run into the ground Hopefully a lot of the undesirables will return back where they came from


----------



## 2020hindsight (5 August 2009)

knocker said:


> Let Krudd run the country for another 1 or 2 terms. About time the country got run into the ground Hopefully a lot of the undesirables will return back where they came from




no need to be so hard on Sol Trujillo there knocker..


----------



## queenslander55 (5 August 2009)

2020hindsight said:


> We should have a poll on how long we reckon he'll stay in politics.




Hey 2020, tried that, no one wanted to play...

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16524


----------



## Gamblor (6 August 2009)

I hope he makes it through. The liberal party would have nothing going for it if he got the boot - just a bunch of twits living 20-30 years in the past.


----------



## Fishbulb (6 August 2009)

I think eventually he will. It all depends on his genes and how long it takes him to grow new balls.


----------



## Buckeroo (6 August 2009)

Fishbulb said:


> I think eventually he will. It all depends on his genes and how long it takes him to grow new balls.




I see some Liberals are looking at Robb the Blob as a replacement.

Gee whiz - what are they thinking!! If this happens, come next election, I'm going to vote Greens just to smite them!!

Come on Mal, kick these dickheads in the gollies & straighten them out.

Cheers


----------



## Julia (6 August 2009)

Buckeroo said:


> I see some Liberals are looking at Robb the Blob as a replacement.
> 
> 
> Cheers



I thought Abbott was the bottom of their barrel.  Robb would be an absolutely incomprehensible choice.  He's one of the most inarticulate politicians ever.
I doubt they'd seriously consider him.


----------



## wayneL (6 August 2009)

Julia said:


> I thought Abbott was the bottom of their barrel.  Robb would be an absolutely incomprehensible choice.  He's one of the most inarticulate politicians ever.
> I doubt they'd seriously consider him.



Labor has already tried the blobby, cuddly, likeable, but essentially useless leader route. It doesn't work.


----------



## GumbyLearner (7 August 2009)

Malcolm Turntable is a former merchant banker of the Aussie arm of Goldman Sucks.

He also started his own fund raising arm mob who have enough links via the Wentworth Fund. The same fund that moved in on people within the USA that had their homes repossessed due to hurricane KATRINA damage.

His greatest work as a barrister was to defend a Mr. Wright and his "Spycatcher" diaries. Not that there is anything wrong with someone re-collecting their experience with the British home office as most of the tory voters that are members of this website should agree. More power to the guy for doing his job as an advocate. Mr. Wright was living in Tasmania at the time and Mr.Turntable got his claim to fame.

What I don't understand is why Turntable accused the PM of Oz and the Treasurer of our country of impropriety with regard to the "Utegate" affair?

Turntable has advertised it, tried to confirm it and as a result has egg on his face. For such an experienced Merchant Banker, Litigator, Barrister and politician one has to only question the aptitude of the man Mr.Turntable.

This really is unfortunate and shows the inept opportunism of a person who has abandoned the principles of his own training and experience.

Resign!


----------



## knocker (7 August 2009)

So what you are saying is that it is a ship without a rudder lol


----------



## MrBurns (7 August 2009)

Turnbull was excellent on Q and A last night, Gillard was boring repetative and robotic.

Labor have the attitude, never answer the question just take the opportunuty to rant over the same old BS hoping it will stick.

Interestingly the audience all young people didnt seem to like Gillard one bit.

There's hope for our young yet.

The education revolution got a serve, one guy saying he wrote a thesis on something or other and even though he cant spell he got high praise for it. 

Education BS election spin more to the point.


----------



## Fishbulb (7 August 2009)

Agreed. Turnbull came across as human and had a sense of humour.

Gillard should go back to pushing the tea trolley at Labor conferences. And please, Julia, stop trying to look hip with that makeover, it's getting embarrasing.


----------



## queenslander55 (7 August 2009)

Fishbulb said:


> Agreed. Turnbull came across as human and had a sense of humour.
> 
> Gillard should go back to pushing the tea trolley at Labor conferences. And please, Julia, stop trying to look hip with that makeover, it's getting embarrasing.






MrBurns said:


> Turnbull was excellent on Q and A last night, Gillard was boring repetative and robotic.
> 
> Labor have the attitude, never answer the question just take the opportunuty to rant over the same old BS hoping it will stick.
> 
> ...




Boys...boys...(Whoops and girls...sorry Julia) can anyone join your mutual admiration society or is it exclusively the domain of disgrundled, carping, whinging, vindictive right wing malcontents who in days gone by waited dilligently at Kirribili's Gates every morning for a glimpse of the illustrious JWH, thereby obtaining confirmation of the impending rising of the Sun?


----------



## MrBurns (7 August 2009)

queenslander55 said:


> Boys...boys...can anyone join your mutual admiration society or is it exclusively the domain of disgrundled, carping, whinging, vindictive right wing malcontents who in days gone by waited dilligently at Kirribili's Gates every morning for a glimpse of the illustrious JWH, thereby obtaining confirmation of the impending rising of the Sun?




No don't be silly of course Labor people can join and they will after they wake up one morning and find their jobs are gone and interest rate on their mortgages have doubled and Ruddy is in Europe writing essays full of BS.

The "I've got my rights and someone else can pay brigade" will swarm to vote Lib when their freeby benefits have dried up and someone insists they should work for their money.

All welcome


----------



## Fishbulb (7 August 2009)

queenslander55 said:


> Boys...boys...(Whoops and girls...sorry Julia) can anyone join your mutual admiration society or is it exclusively the domain of disgrundled, carping, whinging, vindictive right wing malcontents who in days gone by waited dilligently at Kirribili's Gates every morning for a glimpse of the illustrious JWH, thereby obtaining confirmation of the impending rising of the Sun?





disgruntled, carping, whinging, vindictive, right-wing malcontent? - time for a visit to the thesaurus don't you think?

.....and judging by the way you've made such acute observations based on a single post? also time to re-think whatever method you use to discern facts and observations. I-Ching was it? Crystal ball? Astrology?


----------



## nunthewiser (7 August 2009)

would just like to take this opportunity to point out that before liberals LOST the election they also gave away swags of cash in the forms of baby bonuses etc etc ......

labour did not offer any free money to win the election 

they WON the election .voted in by the MAJORITY 


suck it up ya buncha whining nancy boys


----------



## MrBurns (7 August 2009)

nunthewiser said:


> would just like to take this opportunity to point out that before liberals LOST the election they also gave away swags of cash in the forms of baby bonuses etc etc ......
> labour did not offer any free money to win the election
> they WON the election .voted in by the MAJORITY
> suck it up ya buncha whining nancy boys




You only voted him in because you wanted the freebies , well the jokes on you because you've had a hand out or two but you'll be eating low grade crap from rented caravans for the rest of your life when the debt kicks in while the astute Lib voter , superior in every way , kicks back relaxing with the wealth they accumulated when Howard and a real treasurer was in power.

Suck on that, while chocking on your home brand mung beans in your unheated bed sit


----------



## nunthewiser (7 August 2009)

MrBurns said:


> You only voted him in because you wanted the freebies , well the jokes on you because you've had a hand out or two but you'll be eating low grade crap from rented caravans for the rest of your life when the debt kicks in while the astute Lib voter , superior in every way , kicks back relaxing with the wealth they accumulated when Howard and a real treasurer was in power.
> 
> Suck on that, while chocking on your home brand mung beans in your unheated bed sit




hahahahaha 

um i DID vote labour YES

i have not recieved ONE payment from them 

scroll thru my stimulas payments posts , you will see in fact ive done plenny of whinging about how im paying for your nursing home and pokie cash mr burns 

mung beans are for hippys and greenpeace types , i am neither , blow them all to bits i say......

now get back outside and finish weeding my garden or i,ll cut your benefits


----------



## Timmy (7 August 2009)

I hate it when the market falls.  Everyone is much less grumpy when its going up.


----------



## queenslander55 (7 August 2009)

MrBurns said:


> No don't be silly of course Labor people can join and they will after they wake up one morning and find their jobs are gone and interest rate on their mortgages have doubled and Ruddy is in Europe writing essays full of BS.
> 
> The "I've got my rights and someone else can pay brigade" will swarm to vote Lib when their freeby benefits have dried up and someone insists they should work for their money.
> 
> All welcome




LMAO...Burnsy et al, why do you automatically assume that anyone that doesn't conform to your world view is a Labor supporter?

My dear china plate, your legs aren't strong enough to leap to that conclusion!!!


----------



## nunthewiser (7 August 2009)

Timmy said:


> I hate it when the market falls.  Everyone is much less grumpy when its going up.





happy as a pig in poo here m8 . crashnburn BHP i say ..... 

just here cos was getting a bit nauseous listening to burnsie and co acting as fluffers for malcom turnbull

just needed to poinnt out that liberals LOST the election just in case they forgot


----------



## MrBurns (7 August 2009)

nunthewiser said:


> happy as a pig in poo here m8 . crashnburn BHP i say .....
> 
> just here cos was getting a bit nauseous listening to burnsie and co acting as fluffers for malcom turnbull
> 
> just needed to poinnt out that liberals LOST the election just in case they forgot




No nun.......... *the Australian public lost the election.*

I've learned from experience that anyone who doesnt conform to my view IS a Labor voter, I see them quite often picking through the trash in the rear lane behind my "Club"

Nun you didnt receive one benefit ??? You are even stupider than the average Labor voter, who always lines up for the freebies before a trip to the dole office then down to the pokies, then buy a slab of beer go home bash the wife then go to the lane behind my Club for dinner.

Do you eat there ?


----------



## queenslander55 (7 August 2009)

Fishbulb said:


> disgruntled, carping, whinging, vindictive, right-wing malcontent? - time for a visit to the thesaurus don't you think?
> 
> .....and judging by the way you've made such acute observations based on a single post? also time to re-think whatever method you use to discern facts and observations. I-Ching was it? Crystal ball? Astrology?




You've certainly chosen the right handle Fishy!  Good to see you didn't call yourself 'Lightbulb'...that would have been false advertising.


----------



## Mr J (7 August 2009)

Fishbulb said:


> Agreed. Turnbull came across as human and had a sense of humour.
> 
> Gillard should go back to pushing the tea trolley at Labor conferences. And please, Julia, stop trying to look hip with that makeover, it's getting embarrasing.




I was going to say something similar. I think quite a few people, particularly the younger crowd, are influenced by personality. Mal is a wanker, but there's life there. Rudd, Gillard - dull as door knobs. I wouldn't be surprised if they were really aliens taking human form.


----------



## MrBurns (7 August 2009)

Mr J said:


> . Mal is a wanker, .




Rudd has a Masters Degree in that.


----------



## nunthewiser (7 August 2009)

MrBurns said:


> No nun.......... *the Australian public lost the election.*
> 
> I've learned from experience that anyone who doesnt conform to my view IS a Labor voter, I see them quite often picking through the trash in the rear lane behind my "Club"
> 
> ...




hahahahahahah 

my ribs my ribs

now get back to work before i inform the " work for the dole scheme" you abusing the sytem


----------



## MrBurns (7 August 2009)

nunthewiser said:


> hahahahahahah
> my ribs my ribs
> now get back to work before i inform the " work for the dole sheme" you abusing the sytem




I might go to my Club for a spot of lunch and a brandy but I'll have to wait till security clears away all the Labor voting beggars out the front, it's pathetic really they've put their entire dole through the pokies by lunchtime, as long as they were my machines I don't suppose I should complain


----------



## queenslander55 (7 August 2009)

MrBurns said:


> I might go to my Club for a spot of lunch and a brandy but I'll have to wait till security clears away all the Labor voting beggars out the front, it's pathetic really they've put their entire dole through the pokies by lunchtime, as long as they were my machines I don't suppose I should complain




Smithers...take the Bentley, go down to the gates and make sure my estate which is encumbered by a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th mortgage at the McQuarrie Bank oops forgot the caveat and the bill of sale for the missuses Lambo, is safe from those purile money wasters that are Labor voters.


----------



## queenslander55 (7 August 2009)

.....and Oh Craps!!!  My options are due next week too....Bugger!!!!


----------



## MrBurns (7 August 2009)

queenslander55 said:


> Smithers...take the Bentley, go down to the gates and make sure my estate which is encumbered by a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th mortgage at the McQuarrie Bank oops forgot the caveat and the bill of sale for the missuses Lambo, is safe from those purile money wasters that are Labor voters.




No problem I own the bank too.
Now get off my property before I release the hounds whoops sorry they're out


----------



## Mr J (7 August 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Rudd has a Masters Degree in that.




Goes without saying. Different type of wankers though, as Rudd is far less tolerable.


----------



## drsmith (7 August 2009)

The Fremantle Dockers prospects of winning the 2009 AFL grand final have not improved.


----------



## nunthewiser (7 August 2009)

drsmith said:


> The Fremantle Dockers prospects of winning the 2009 AFL grand final have not improved.





blame it on Rudd , everyone else does


----------



## noco (7 August 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Turnbull was excellent on Q and A last night, Gillard was boring repetative and robotic.
> 
> Labor have the attitude, never answer the question just take the opportunuty to rant over the same old BS hoping it will stick.
> 
> ...




Yes Mr. Burns, I too thought Malcolm handled the situation very well; he appeared cool,calm and collected and at times quite jovial.

When ever Gillard was asked an uncomfortable question, she would bring out that stupid "girlish giggle".

I was impressed with Mitchel Grady who suggested to Gillard that get over the UTEGATE AFFAIR and the false E-Mail and get on with fixing HEATH and Eduducation.  
He asked Gillard what has happened to  the Education Revolution which she talks about so much.
Gillard replied with, "we are spending $14.7 billion on education; we have built a new Gymnasium for this school and a new Library for that school"
Turnbull interjected with and don't forget the JULIA GILLARD MEMORIAL HALL.

Mitchell Gray said "that's all very well, but what about teaching kids Literaracy amd Numeracy and the provision of better teaches".

Giggle, giggle........... oh we are doing that too. 

IMHO Malcolm will survive, because Andrew Robb has no chance; he would be a poor replacement.


----------



## Buckeroo (7 August 2009)

noco said:


> Yes Mr. Burns, I too thought Malcolm handled the situation very well; he appeared cool,calm and collected and at times quite jovial.
> 
> When ever Gillard was asked an uncomfortable question, she would bring out that stupid "girlish giggle".
> 
> ...




Hear, Hear noco / Mr Burns- good comments

I also noted that Julia now has KRudds spin down to a tee. He must have been coaching her lately to speak fluent waffle!

Cheers


----------



## Macquack (7 August 2009)

MrBurns said:


> Rudd has a Masters Degree in that.




Burns has a PhD in that. 

Dr Burns.


----------



## MrBurns (7 August 2009)

noco said:


> I was impressed with Mitchel Grady .




He was excellent, he would excell in politics if he felt he should sacrifice himself.
He certainly made Gillard look inadequate.


----------



## Julia (7 August 2009)

MrBurns said:


> He was excellent, he would excell in politics if he felt he should sacrifice himself.
> He certainly made Gillard look inadequate.



Agree, Mr Burns and Noco.  A terrific kid.  The girl representing young Labor was pretty and articulate enough, but already she has been indoctrinated into mouthing the party platitudes.


----------



## Calliope (7 August 2009)

noco said:


> IMHO Malcolm will survive, because Andrew Robb has no chance; he would be a poor replacement.




I was of the opinion that after his failed attempt to get Rudd he should fall on his sword. But now think that with a bit of work he could be the right stuff. With the right coaching and good spin doctoring, he could he could be converted into a political animal, just as nasty as Rudd.

But he needs an urgent makeover and a thick hide before the jackals destroy him


https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31318&stc=1&d=1246261082


----------



## noco (9 August 2009)

Talk about point scoring! Krudd and the goose are persisting in their attempt to discredit Turnbull over a faked E-Mail by stating Turnbull has no character or good judgement to be the alternative Prime Minister and should resign. How ironical is that when they themselves have shown bad judgement on several occassions and lacked the character expected of politicians. It certainly appears the Labor Party would dearly love to politically  assassinate Turnbull at all costs. 

The man (Turnbull) made a mistake. How often have you heard Gillard defend several Labor politicians including Rudd himself that they made errors of judgement and  she (Gillard) states, "Giggle, Giggle"  we all make mistakes or, he or she had a bad day, lets get over it,  and move on to the more important issues like Health, the Education Revolution????? and jobs, jobs,jobs. Mark Abib is a tipical example, and one would have no doubt he got the rough end of the pineapple over his explanation of the 50,000 Rudd Green jobs. Have not seen him on TV interviews since. Looks like he has gone into smoke. I wonder if they have sent to Siberia!

Labor now wants an Senate Privalige's Committee enquiry into the fake          E-Mail, however according to the Insiders program this morning, Labor may change it's  mind for fear of what dirt may come out against them.

Turnbull has no real challenger and I believe he will survive this week contrary to what the media are trying to hype up, once again,  in trying to  gain headlines. 

The one thing I would like to see Turnbull do is "CAN" this stupid ETS scheme as Barnaby Joyce said this morning " it is nothing more than a Tax Grab, it will cost thousands of jobs, it will send work overseas, it will add $75 TO THE COST PER HEAD OF CATTLE and do absolutely nothing to reduce Green House Emmissions".


----------



## MrBurns (9 August 2009)

Macquack said:


> Burns has a PhD in that.
> 
> Dr Burns.




Gee haven't heard from you in a while, it seems you're out now, are they cleaning your cage ?


----------



## Julia (9 August 2009)

noco said:


> Labor now wants an Senate Privalige's Committee enquiry into the fake          E-Mail, however according to the Insiders program this morning, Labor may change it's  mind for fear of what dirt may come out against them.



Labor should quit while it's ahead on this.  They have made good political capital out of Mr Turnbull's error.  The public have now had enough of it.
If they keep this up, they risk eroding their margin.





> The one thing I would like to see Turnbull do is "CAN" this stupid ETS scheme as Barnaby Joyce said this morning " it is nothing more than a Tax Grab, it will cost thousands of jobs, it will send work overseas, it will add $75 TO THE COST PER HEAD OF CATTLE and do absolutely nothing to reduce Green House Emmissions".



It sounds as though the Libs have overcome their fear or producing a double dissolution trigger and have decided to vote against this.   I think time is not on the government's side on this legislation as more contradictors of the effectiveness of the scheme are replacing the warm fuzzies of saving the environment.
The following is an extract from Irwin Steizer, a US economist, yesterday:
he was discussing the tasks ahead of President Obama.




> He also has to persuade voters to press their senators to back the House approved cap-and-trade plan to reduce Co2 emissions.  That chore was made more difficult when Jairam Ramesh, India's Environment Minister, told Secretary of Stage Hillary Clinton that his country would not even consider limiting its greenhouse gas emissions until 2020, if then.
> 
> Like China, India points out that Europe is not meeting its Kyoto commitments, and America is a major polluter.  India's position means that *nothing the Senate can do will affect global warming - and the high cost of limiting US emissions would merely be an act of economic masochism*.



We can surely say the same about any efforts Australia might make.


----------



## noco (9 August 2009)

Julia said:


> Labor should quit while it's ahead on this.  They have made good political capital out of Mr Turnbull's error.  The public have now had enough of it.
> If they keep this up, they risk eroding their margin.
> 
> 
> ...




Well Julia, lets hope the "CHEMO" that our sceptic friends are applying to the "CANCER" ridden alarmist takes effect before it destroys us all. The CO2 emmissions these bar*?#rds keep harping on about and  who are being proven wrong over and over again by some 30,000 scientist is a lot of hot air.

I am optimistic, like your good self,  that more and more people will see the light of day and put an end to this crazy "whoop whoop belong bulla ma cow," as they say in PNG, to an end!  I wish Malcolm Turnbull would do a 180 degree turn and side with the Nationals and reject the whole bill  in it's entirety in the lower house and the senate. I believe if  he did,  a lot of people would say "yes, this man has the judgement and character we would all like to see in a future Prime Minister of Australia".


----------



## Calliope (9 August 2009)

noco said:


> I wish Malcolm Turnbull would do a 180 degree turn and side with the Nationals and reject the whole bill  in it's entirety in the lower house and the senate. I believe if  he did,  a lot of people would say "yes, this man has the judgement and character we would all like to see in a future Prime Minister of Australia".




The problem here noco is that the majority of the Australian  electorate actually believe that a Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme in this country could, by some miracle, mitigate climate change. They have also bought the alternative energy myth. Turnbull is a believer, not a sceptic. The strange thing is that people are screaming about rising electricity costs now.

It is hard to believe that a smart guy like Rudd actually believes the lies he is peddling about GW. His motives must be more sinister.


----------



## Buckeroo (9 August 2009)

Calliope said:


> It is hard to believe that a smart guy like Rudd actually believes the lies he is peddling about GW. His motives must be more sinister.




Mmmmm.....how about this:

The world is on the precipice of economic destruction. With this will come complete & total disruption in world stability.

So how would countries quell an uprising of its citizens when all the stimulus money runs out? Easy, blame the inevitable lower living standards & hardship on GW. It will be like a war, except a war on carbon - we will all have to pull together for the good of mankind & our environment.

They have already done this to good effect & it worked. What's that you say? Well, at the height of the financial crises, they put the world on a pandemic footing for a flu that's milder than the usual seasonal flu's. 

Cheers


----------



## nulla nulla (9 August 2009)

If he sticks arround long enough, Peter Costelo retires, Tony Abbot becomes a preist and Joe Hockey is outed as a terrorist. In 15 years when the Australian population decides its time for a change, simply for the sake of a change, he might be able to win.


----------



## queenslander55 (9 August 2009)

Can't see him going down without a fight though...I think he has a regular re-occuring dream about sipping port and puffing panatellas from the vantage point of the terrace at Kirribilli...


----------



## Julia (9 August 2009)

Buckeroo said:


> Mmmmm.....how about this:
> 
> The world is on the precipice of economic destruction. With this will come complete & total disruption in world stability.
> 
> ...



Well, Buckeroo, my mind wouldn't have gone to such machiavellian levels, but when you put it like that, it does sound entirely supportable.  Quite the sort of scheme a manipulator like Rudd would consider.


----------



## Julia (10 August 2009)

Did anyone see Malcolm Turnbull's interview on the 7.30 Report this evening?
I don't think I've ever seen such aggression from Kerry O'Brien.

He usually makes at least a gesture towards treating both sides with some equanimity, but tonight he was just viciously out for Turnbull's throat.

I wouldn't have been surprised to see them
 start taking a swing at each other, such was the palpable level of anger on both sides.


----------



## noco (11 August 2009)

Julia said:


> Did anyone see Malcolm Turnbull's interview on the 7.30 Report this evening?
> I don't think I've ever seen such aggression from Kerry O'Brien.
> 
> He usually makes at least a gesture towards treating both sides with some equanimity, but tonight he was just viciously out for Turnbull's throat.
> ...




Julia, what else would expect from a Labor Party stooge. Rudd probably orchestrates  the questions for O'Brien to ask. Would not be surprised if he had contact with Rudd every day. 

Kerry O'Brien is and always has been very biased towards the Labor Party. I think Malcolm Turnbull has to reconsider his interviews with the ABC, just like Kevin Rudd picks and chooses who interviews him. Rudd will avoid interviewers whom he thinks may put him on the spot.


----------



## Calliope (11 August 2009)

I just watched this show. Kerry O'Brien certainly makes no secret of his hatred of Turnbull and his bias against the Coalition. I just wish Turnbull would stop commencing answers to deliberately nasty and provocative questions with "Well Kerry...."


----------



## Timmy (11 August 2009)

Julia said:


> Did anyone see Malcolm Turnbull's interview on the 7.30 Report this evening?
> I don't think I've ever seen such aggression from Kerry O'Brien.




I wonder if it is a case of kicking a man when he is down?  Kerry getting his kicks (sorry) from doing so?


----------



## trainspotter (11 August 2009)

Maybe Kerry O'Brien wants to follow previous presenter of the ABC's 7.30 report, Alan Carpenter into politics? Kerry O'Brien and Malcolm Turnbull have a history of head clashes in the boxing ring commonly called "journalism" for the masses. Maybe MT is punch drunk from the severe beating he has copped lately from the rumble tumble of politics which he is clearly not suited for. See below link for more loaded questions from Kerry OB1 Kenobe.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...n/comments/abc_to_turnbull_be_fairer_to_rudd/

To watch the 13 minutes of agony of a man who is having his fingernails pulled out with bolt cutters.

http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/7.30-smackdown-a-warmup-bout-for-lib-party-room?from=news.com.au

The indignant stance of refusing to answer questions is clearly a sign of a man who is out of his depth and rapidly running out of time. Just like Julius Caesar he is about to find out what happens when you do not listen to the caucus. Et tu Brute ? Or in this case "Don't stand behind me with that dagger, Wilson Tuckey"


----------



## MrBurns (11 August 2009)

A question for you Kerry,

When will yopu be leaving the ABC to take up a safe seat as a Member of the ALP ? and for how long have you been a mole for the ALP using your position at the ABC in an attempt to turn public opinion against the Liberals ?


----------



## Julia (11 August 2009)

Timmy said:


> I wonder if it is a case of kicking a man when he is down?  Kerry getting his kicks (sorry) from doing so?



That's certainly how it appeared.   I've always had respect for Kerry O'Brien and felt he has overall done a reasonable job of being fair to both sides, but he certainly appeared to have his own agenda last night.


----------



## Macquack (11 August 2009)

MrBurns said:


> A question for you Kerry,
> 
> When will yopu be leaving the ABC to take up a safe seat as a Member of the ALP ? and for how long have you been a mole for the ALP using your position at the ABC in an *attempt to turn public opinion against the Liberals *?




Turnbull is doing a fine job turning public opinion against the Liberals, all by himself.


----------



## Buckeroo (11 August 2009)

Julia said:


> That's certainly how it appeared.   I've always had respect for Kerry O'Brien and felt he has overall done a reasonable job of being fair to both sides, but he certainly appeared to have his own agenda last night.




Sorry Julia, but this is a statement that I don't even remotely agree with.

O'Brien is a labor sympathizer and I'm being very kind. I used to watch him in the 90's & recognized then, he was extremely biased toward the Liberals.

It was only recently he was caught saying this in so many words. Anyway, most journalists are labor supporters because most of them still belong to a union. And the nature of their jobs are, well, socialistic.

Its no wonder that in the public eyes, their profession is only one step up from the bottom after real estate agents because of their opinionated bias.

Cheers


----------



## MrBurns (11 August 2009)

I guess O'Brien had a right to have a go, but I'd like to see him do the same with Rudd instead of allowing him to answer every question with "The global financial crisis is the worst etc etc and no matter what goes wrong it wont be our fault, you do agree don't you Kerry?"


----------



## Gamblor (11 August 2009)

Buckeroo said:


> Sorry Julia, but this is a statement that I don't even remotely agree with.
> 
> O'Brien is a labor sympathizer and I'm being very kind. I used to watch him in the 90's & recognized then, he was extremely biased toward the Liberals.
> 
> ...




hahahaha oh boy. O'Brien will savage anyone he can -  the man is a pitbull and when he can see a wound he attacks it. Turnbull got ruffled because he was vulnerable (having members of your own party background journos on internal polls doesn't help either). I've seen him make fools out of many people regardless of party.


----------



## Julia (11 August 2009)

Macquack said:


> Turnbull is doing a fine job turning public opinion against the Liberals, all by himself.



Ably assisted by Wilson Tuckey.  What is the matter with this bloke?
He seems to be regarding the complete destruction of the Liberal Party as his mission in life. (Tuckey, I mean.)




Buckeroo said:


> Sorry Julia, but this is a statement that I don't even remotely agree with.
> 
> O'Brien is a labor sympathizer and I'm being very kind. I used to watch him in the 90's & recognized then, he was extremely biased toward the Liberals.
> 
> ...



I know a lot of people feel as you do.  But I've seen him at times ask some pretty hard questions of Labor people.  Never seen it happen with K. Rudd though.  Rudd always drives the interview (as Penny Wong did tonight) and O'Brien just goes along for the ride, at the end meekly thanking the PM for his time.




MrBurns said:


> I guess O'Brien had a right to have a go, but I'd like to see him do the same with Rudd instead of allowing him to answer every question with "The global financial crisis is the worst etc etc and no matter what goes wrong it wont be our fault, you do agree don't you Kerry?"



Have you watched the interview, Mr Burns.  It was rather more than "having a go.".


----------



## MrBurns (11 August 2009)

Julia said:


> Have you watched the interview, Mr Burns.  It was rather more than "having a go.".




He was in top gear I must admit, the bias was obvious.

It seems no one will be happy until Turnbull is replaced.


----------



## Buckeroo (11 August 2009)

MrBurns said:


> It seems no one will be happy until Turnbull is replaced.




My fear is not that Turnbull will be lost in the ashes, its more to do with the new piece of firewood that's going to replace him - the candidates are:

Robb the blob
The very Reverend Abbot
Laugh a minuite Hockey
Cone Head Pyne

How about as a rank outsider the Arch Bishop herself?

I wonder if I could emigrate to Antarctica - its about the only place that doesn't have politicians!

Cheers


----------



## queenslander55 (12 August 2009)

Julia said:


> That's certainly how it appeared. I've always had respect for Kerry O'Brien and felt he has overall done a reasonable job of being fair to both sides, but he certainly appeared to have his own agenda last night.






MrBurns said:


> A question for you Kerry,
> 
> When will yopu be leaving the ABC to take up a safe seat as a Member of the ALP ? and for how long have you been a mole for the ALP using your position at the ABC in an attempt to turn public opinion against the Liberals ?






Timmy said:


> I wonder if it is a case of kicking a man when he is down? Kerry getting his kicks (sorry) from doing so?






Calliope said:


> I just watched this show. Kerry O'Brien certainly makes no secret of his hatred of Turnbull and his bias against the Coalition. I just wish Turnbull would stop commencing answers to deliberately nasty and provocative questions with "Well Kerry...."






noco said:


> Julia, what else would expect from a Labor Party stooge. Rudd probably orchestrates the questions for O'Brien to ask. Would not be surprised if he had contact with Rudd every day.
> 
> Kerry O'Brien is and always has been very biased towards the Labor Party. I think Malcolm Turnbull has to reconsider his interviews with the ABC, just like Kevin Rudd picks and chooses who interviews him. Rudd will avoid interviewers whom he thinks may put him on the spot.


----------



## trainspotter (23 August 2009)

Ohhhhhhh the horror. Malcolm Turnbull is now being accused of trying to join the Labor Party.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,25967839-2,00.html

Martin Ferguson cracked me up with the line "We do not need to be doing anything to Malcolm, he is doing a great job of ruining himself." LOLOL


----------



## Macquack (23 August 2009)

Is Turnbull coming out of the closet?


----------



## trainspotter (23 August 2009)

Ok ... it's official .. the media has now branded Malcolm Turnbull as ... wait for it .... Malcolm Turncoat. The miserable journalistic hack jobs have been reading our stuff in ASF in here! I believe this phrase was used in here several weeks ago??? (can't be bothered looking for it either)


----------



## Donga (23 August 2009)

At 2 for 103 with over 400 to go, Ricky Ponting has a better chance...


----------



## noco (23 August 2009)

trainspotter said:


> Ok ... it's official .. the media has now branded Malcolm Turnbull as ... wait for it .... Malcolm Turncoat. The miserable journalistic hack jobs have been reading our stuff in ASF in here! I believe this phrase was used in here several weeks ago??? (can't be bothered looking for it either)




The Labor Party are up to their old tricks again to discredit Malcolm Turnbull by falsely claiming he approached them to join the Labor Party. Six Labor Party hacks all have the same story to convince the public and the media that what they say is gospel. Turnbull has refuted their allegations but what chance does he have with six against one. Do they have any proof or records in writing or verbal? Why has it taken the Labor Party 10 years to come up with these allegations.

IMHO I believe the Labor Party set up Turnbull with the "fake E-Mail". It may have been the case whereby an E-Mail was sent to Godwin Gresch and ultimately deleted at both ends by Rudd's IT wizards. Gresch then tried to reconstruct the  E-Mail from memory and this  is the reason he stumbled in the senate inquiry with his statement it could sort of be false because he had nothing to back up his story. Whether that E-Mail was true or false we may never know. Nevertheless it had the desired affect the Labor Party wanted and that was to discredit Malcolm Turnbull and the Liberal Party to make way for an easy  election win whenever that may be.

Malcolm Turnbull should visit China for some lessons on how to cut Rudd off at the ankles, for it did not take the Chinese long to wake up to Rudd's false  and empty rhetoric.

I also believe Turnbull should follow the lead of the Nationl Party and many of his own Liberal MP'S and reject the ETS Bill outright. The Rockhampton cement works closure is the tip of the ICEBERG and should be exploited to the fullest and he has three months to do it.


----------



## trainspotter (23 August 2009)

Remembering his successfull merchant bank was setup with ex Labor Party honchos. Good chance that there is a modicum of truth to the rumour. Interesting to note that it is a bit late to close the gate after the horse has bolted.

Apologies to Banjo on this one:-

There was movement at the station, for the word had passed around
That the colt from old Regret had got away,
And had joined the wild bush horses - he was worth a thousand pound,
So all the cracks had gathered to the fray.
All the tried and noted riders from the stations near and far
Had mustered at the homestead overnight,
For the bushmen love hard riding where the wild bush horses are,
And the stockhorse snuffs the battle with delight.


----------



## trainspotter (23 August 2009)

Donga said:


> At 2 for 103 with over 400 to go, Ricky Ponting has a better chance...




2 for 207 and getting nervous now. Maybe Malcolm has a snowball chance in Hades after all?


----------



## knocker (23 August 2009)

Donga said:


> At 2 for 103 with over 400 to go, Ricky Ponting has a better chance...




Fantatsic atmosphere and day here. I love London!! Go Hussey Go Ponting.


----------



## knocker (23 August 2009)

Poms appealing for everything


----------



## trainspotter (23 August 2009)

Get them to appeal to Malcolm !!!!


----------



## Julia (23 August 2009)

noco said:


> I also believe Turnbull should follow the lead of the Nationl Party and many of his own Liberal MP'S and reject the ETS Bill outright. The Rockhampton cement works closure is the tip of the ICEBERG and should be exploited to the fullest and he has three months to do it.



Ideally he should delay passing the legislation, but as we all know this puts him at risk of facing a double dissolution election which the Libs would not win.

If it were possible to delay the ETS decision until at least after Copenhagen I suspect (unless there is an unexpected unanimous decision to take definite action globally) Australian voter opinion will have turned even more negative towards an ETS.  I understand there is considerably less support for it now than a few months ago, as people become more conscious of the added cost of living it will imply.

If public opinion continues to go against this ETS, the government will be more likely to take the time to consider some of the objections to it.


----------



## Donga (23 August 2009)

Oh dear, Ponting run out and I'm calling it a night. Maybe Malcom has a better chance after all


----------



## trainspotter (23 August 2009)

Clark runout as well. Oh dear. Goodnight Malcolm. 

Yes Julia the general population is starting to wake up to the reality of the proposed scheme and it's hidden costs to the scale of living. Like three blind mice we will only wake up after the trap has been snared by our illustrious leaders.


----------



## queenslander55 (24 August 2009)

They seek him here...they seek him there... he's right...no he's left...no he's definitely right...well, maybe he's left...oh no he's absolutely right!  Well...perhaps not.


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## noco (25 August 2009)

Malcolm Turnbull's stocks are up today, a slight improvement from last week.
Maybe the smear campaign by the Laobr Party may have back fired.
IMHO he could lift his ratings 10 points if only he would go along with the Nationals and many of his own party and reject that stupid Labor Party ETS.
The ETS is purely a TAX GRAB and will do nothing to reduce CO2 emmisions.
The SCEPTICS are gaining momentum. Lets keep it on the move!


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## noco (8 October 2009)

Have to give Malcolm Turnbull credit for his tenacity after listening to him together with Joe Hockey on Sky News at 9am this morning. 

With all the pressure being applied to this fellow from both within his own party and  outside as well, most leaders would have thrown their hands in the air and quit.

He is not quite out of the fire yet, however, with a few more media performances like this morning, who knows he might yet rise from the ashes.The big test will be getting his ETS ammendments past the back bench disparity.

You have to give to the man, he 's got GUTZ.


----------



## matty2.0 (8 October 2009)

The thread title should read "Does Turnball inspire confidence?" ...

an alternating thread to the Rudd one.


----------



## Agentm (8 October 2009)

i think malcolm turncoat needs to stay in the seat of power,

he is hilarious, makes a buffoon of himself and no one takes him serious at all. 

imagine life without him.......

the longer he stays the better for all


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## Julia (8 October 2009)

I don't know why they have to persist with all this rubbish in the public domain.
Wilson Tuckey is the most vociferous white ant.

Obviously Turnbull's stand on the ETS is completely at odds with that of the Nationals and some Liberals but wouldn't you think they'd all have the sense to sort it out in private!

No point in replacing Turnbull with Joe Hockey imo and will just make them look more unstable than ever.

It's difficult to imagine that this public dirty washing will not see them further diminished in the next opinion polls.

What a gift to the government who, in contrast, appear to together and disciplined.


----------



## Happy (8 October 2009)

Turnbull is bit arrogant in my books.

I fear that Pyne bloke and will have to stop following Australian politics if he gets any higher up the ranks.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Pyne

If true, little excerpt from link to show Pyne's colours:

 response to my question of why he joined the Liberal Party, the MP blithely responded *"I live in a Liberal seat so I had to be a member of the Liberal Party to get into Parliament. If I lived in a Labor seat I would have joined the Labor Party". *Frankly I was aghast at this response. Where was the conviction, the beliefs, the values that I believe should motivate our political leaders? Several follow up questions disclosed that the only motivation for his own political involvement was for him to become Prime Minister


----------



## noco (8 October 2009)

Julia said:


> I don't know why they have to persist with all this rubbish in the public domain.
> Wilson Tuckey is the most vociferous white ant.
> 
> Obviously Turnbull's stand on the ETS is completely at odds with that of the Nationals and some Liberals but wouldn't you think they'd all have the sense to sort it out in private!
> ...




Yes Julia you are right when you quote "APPEAR together and disciplined", however, it is a known fact that there are dissidents in the Labor Party who are not in agreement with Rudd on the ETS. They are mere puppets on a string and if they don't dance the right way, they will be dropped over the side when the party machine cuts the string. They toe the line or get kicked out.
Whilst the Coalition appear in disarray, at least the members are allowed to speak their minds. Whether that is good or bad, is a matter of opinion Iguess.


----------



## Putty7 (8 October 2009)

After watching Rudd and Hockey on sunrise years ago I quite like Joe Hockey not as a politician but his character in general, that said he is not the Leadership answer for the Liberals imho, Turnbull should have gone by now but really who do they have to replace him with, its quite typical of the Libs to be infighting publically when they should keep things in house, its about time they cut the deadwood and start looking to the next generation of Politicians who are a bit younger and a bit more dynamic, not for the next election because I think they are doing a good job of screwing any chance they have in that regardless, but for the following election. Its a bit like rebuilding a football side when players are past their best and its time to persevere with younger ones coming through to set up future years, different scenarios but when politicians have fallen from grace in the eyes of the public what use are they when public perception affects weather they win or loss an election, the ones with real value who know their stuff yes, they are needed and kept on that basis, but the ones in it for their own fame and gain, put them in the draft....


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## So_Cynical (8 October 2009)

I'm having a great time watching the Liberals self destruct...at this rate labor will be in power for over a decade.

Wilson Tuckey for PM


----------



## wayneL (8 October 2009)

So_Cynical said:


> I'm having a great time watching the Liberals self destruct...at this rate labor will be in power for over a decade.




So you support Fabian socialism?


----------



## Gamblor (9 October 2009)

wayneL said:


> So you support Fabian socialism?




How many members of the current government are members of the Fabian society?


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## So_Cynical (9 October 2009)

wayneL said:


> So you support Fabian socialism?




I'm a socialist...but lets keep this thread on track.

The liberals don't do opposition well, Turnbull is prob to close to the centre 
to be a liberal prime minister...has there ever been a centrist liberal PM?


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## wayneL (9 October 2009)

Gamblor said:


> How many members of the current government are members of the Fabian society?



That information in not publicly available, but Julia Dullard is a confirmed member.


----------



## wayneL (9 October 2009)

So_Cynical said:


> I'm a socialist...but lets keep this thread on track.
> 
> The liberals don't do opposition well, Turnbull is prob to close to the centre
> to be a liberal prime minister...has there ever been a centrist liberal PM?




Frazier


----------



## Macquack (9 October 2009)

wayneL said:


> Frazier




As in "Smokin Joe".


----------



## So_Cynical (10 October 2009)

wayneL said:


> Frazier



 yep that's what i thought...but hes the only one i can think of...and he came to power in strange circumstances.

The point im getting at is that Turnbull is an unlikely PM but then so is Hockey, come to think of it...i now have a better idea of why Costello never had the numbers, he was to centrist as well.


----------



## noco (10 October 2009)

Turnbull's poularity is down to 18%. So was John Howard's back in the mid 
90's.

Given time and some possible  adverse happenings to Rudd down the line, and let's face it, it is impossible for Rudd to maintain his popularity for ever and a day. He will come unstuck sooner or later and then Australians will eventually wake up to his spin and rhetoric.

The ETS could well be his undoing.


----------



## Julia (10 October 2009)

Well, let's hope that by the time Mr Rudd's political skills desert him, Mr Turnbull will have developed some of his own.
He is at present sadly lacking in political savvy imo.  The first thing he needs to understand is the need to take your back bench with you, rather than make unilateral decisions.


----------



## Glen48 (11 October 2009)

All the Libs have to do is wait until the bubble goes pop and win hands down in the biggest land slide in history, sit back no one will vote labor for years and years.


----------



## Soft Dough (11 October 2009)

Julia said:


> Well, let's hope that by the time Mr Rudd's political skills desert him, Mr Turnbull will have developed some of his own.
> He is at present sadly lacking in political savvy imo.  The first thing he needs to understand is the need to take your back bench with you, rather than make unilateral decisions.




Yeah he should take his lead from Krudd, as Krudd is not an egotistical, self-centred dictator who demands his party toes the line.

Australians have been conned, they love the handouts, and only when housing goes up the duff ( gearing has nowhere to go, interest rates rising, taxes rising, incomes stabilising ) then people will start to question him, as he has no more money to buy votes with.


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## Mr J (11 October 2009)

So_Cynical said:


> I'm a socialist...




Do we have a thread for discussion of political and economic systems? Also, just using 'socialist' is pretty vague.



			
				Glen48 said:
			
		

> All the Libs have to do is wait until the bubble goes pop and win hands down in the biggest land slide in history, sit back no one will vote labor for years and years.




I hope you're right, but I'd be lying if I said I was optimistic. We vote by emotion and with opinions that are feeded to us. Unfortunately, many of us do not seem to stop and think hard about the issues. Instead, we just adopt those we read and see on tv. I think it will take too long for people to come around.


----------



## trainspotter (12 October 2009)

Kevin and cohorts have the Liberal rabble on the ropes. They are disfunctional and are about as useful as a bicycle is to a fish. The great unwashed masses are lapping up the media savvy grunt coming from Canberra like a fat kid in an icecream shop. Reminds me of cows being fattened prior to slaughter. When the excreta hits the spinning blades we will be hit with "Don't blame me, I warned you with the 6000 word essay as to the pain that was coming". Where has Kevin gone of late? The man who used to know an awful lot about just about everything – and was pleased to pass it on – is now comparatively mute and unseen. One reason for this is Rudd does not want to be pressed uncomfortably on a range of issues on which he doesn't have answers, such as sections of industrial relations policy. Further, he wants to be seen as a positive, productive contender for the prime ministership and not the usual carping, negative Opposition Leader. He is a political genius OR he has very good handlers and advisers coaching his every move. (parts of this post have been stolen from the Daily Telegraph)


----------



## noco (12 October 2009)

trainspotter said:


> Kevin and cohorts have the Liberal rabble on the ropes. They are disfunctional and are about as useful as a bicycle is to a fish. The great unwashed masses are lapping up the media savvy grunt coming from Canberra like a fat kid in an icecream shop. Reminds me of cows being fattened prior to slaughter. When the excreta hits the spinning blades we will be hit with "Don't blame me, I warned you with the 6000 word essay as to the pain that was coming". Where has Kevin gone of late? The man who used to know an awful lot about just about everything – and was pleased to pass it on – is now comparatively mute and unseen. One reason for this is Rudd does not want to be pressed uncomfortably on a range of issues on which he doesn't have answers, such as sections of industrial relations policy. Further, he wants to be seen as a positive, productive contender for the prime ministership and not the usual carping, negative Opposition Leader. He is a political genius OR he has very good handlers and advisers coaching his every move. (parts of this post have been stolen from the Daily Telegraph)




From the Courier Mail September 26-27.

Rudd has a simple message : "I have the answers to all your problems and you'd be stupid not to take notice."

This bloke has an ego as high as Mt. Everest.


----------



## noco (19 October 2009)

I think we are starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Malcolm is lifting from the ashes after yesterday's meeting. The next poll should show a vast improvement. He has learnt some hard lessons and been dealt a few blows, but he has survived and perhaps come out a better leader form the experience. One can all learn from our mistakes, so long as you don't let it happen again.

Parliament opens again today and where is our illustrious Prime Minister? In Indonesia taking care of the boat people. At least he won't be in parliament to cop a tongue lashing over his failed asylum seeker policy. How very convenient. What a coward!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## noco (19 October 2009)

noco said:


> I think we are starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Malcolm is lifting from the ashes after yesterday's meeting. The next poll should show a vast improvement. He has learnt some hard lessons and been dealt a few blows, but he has survived and perhaps come out a better leader form the experience. One can all learn from our mistakes, so long as you don't let it happen again.
> 
> Parliament opens again today and where is our illustrious Prime Minister? In Indonesia taking care of the boat people. At least he won't be in parliament to cop a tongue lashing over his failed asylum seeker policy. How very convenient. What a coward!!!!!!!!!!




My apology to the PM, thought he was in Indonesia today; he does not leave untill today

I did watch him on question time but turned off the tele half through; just could  not stand to listen to his babbling rhectoric.


----------



## noco (30 October 2009)

I'm afraid if Malcolm Turnbull doesn't get a lift in the polls after Rudd's shambles in Indonesia this week, I will begin to have doubts of his rise from the ashes!
What more of an opportunity does he have right now than to expose Rudd's failings. Turnbull must act more aggressively if wants to gain some ground.


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## Julia (26 November 2009)

As if the Libs haven't already done a sufficiently spectacular job of implosion this week, the Utegate report is apparently out.

Here is transcript of "AM" this morning which includes some of the emails sent by Godwin Grech to Malcolm Turnbull.

Mr Grech appears to have been acting as Mr Turnbull's personal adviser inside Treasury.  Some of the emails are astonishing.

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2009/s2753898.htm


----------



## Putty7 (26 November 2009)

I think Turnbull had his day in the sun a very long time ago Julia, not surprising the Libs were looking to make the move to oust him just before this report came out, only gives strength to their other arguments.


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## nulla nulla (26 November 2009)

If today is anything to go by, tomorrow is likely to see a new leader of the liberal party. If a nonety can gather together 35 votes at short notice, Tony Abbot must figure he can raise the necessary numbers, particulalry if he has Nick Minchin number crunching with him.


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## moXJO (26 November 2009)

nulla nulla said:


> If today is anything to go by, tomorrow is likely to see a new leader of the liberal party. If a nonety can gather together 35 votes at short notice, Tony Abbot must figure he can raise the necessary numbers, particulalry if he has Nick Minchin number crunching with him.




And not a moment too soon imo. Turnbull seems to have done more for labor causes, rather then been any help to liberals.


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## noco (26 November 2009)

IMHO this thread will be dead and buried by Monday Nov 30. I doubt Turnbull can survive this latest debacle and hoping, the end of the ETS.


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## drsmith (26 November 2009)

Malcolm Turnbull and Fremantle Dockers....

Lots in commom.


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## Dukey (26 November 2009)

moXJO said:


> And not a moment too soon imo. Turnbull seems to have done more for labor causes, rather then been any help to liberals.




Not so sure about that...

the speech he gave just now [ http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/11/26/2754779.htm ] appeared quite relaxed and showed strength and leadership.  He could've said - well go f#@K the lot of youse, spat the dummy and walked  - but instead he stood tall, stated his case and effectively dared abbott and co to a showdown.

... and I agree with him - good riddance to the drop-outs - the libs and the nation will be much better off without those clowns and will take a giant step into the 21st century where the rest of us live!!  

If they ditch Turnbull and stick with the loony super conservatives - then labour will be laughing all the way to the next term... and probably the one after that too...!


all just IMO of course! cheers - -d


----------



## moXJO (26 November 2009)

noco said:


> IMHO this thread will be dead and buried by Monday Nov 30. I doubt Turnbull can survive this latest debacle and hoping, the end of the ETS.




Rudd is trying to rush the ets through tomorrow while Turnbull is still in a position of power. Why the need for the rush? It will make zero difference to the environment if we wait till February. Except that the general public might realize what’s going on
Rudd has made out the world would end if we didn’t tax force this tax on Australians asap. 
Notice Rudd once again dodges the flack from the media for putting this ****e on the table. Be nice to know exactly how much of a difference this ets will make on global warming.


----------



## moXJO (26 November 2009)

Dukey said:


> Not so sure about that...
> 
> the speech he gave just now [ http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/11/26/2754779.htm ] appeared quite relaxed and showed strength and leadership.  He could've said - well go f#@K the lot of youse, spat the dummy and walked  - but instead he stood tall, stated his case and effectively dared abbott and co to a showdown.
> 
> ...




Oh you mean Turnbulls 'save the children' speech, C'mon. We are 1% of the pollution, and this ets will do bugger all for global warming. But you can be sure it will do a lot for ripping tax off us. We don't need to rush something through when the details about it are so vague. If a giant step into the 21st century means believing this is for the environment, then I might stick it out here for a bit.
I am for less pollution, but this ets is just too vague. The manner in which they are trying to rush it through is also worrying


----------



## So_Cynical (26 November 2009)

Not pointing the finger at anyone in particular but i have to say that i find the depth of political naivety from many posters in this thread, and other similar ones to be breathtaking.

Turnbull is being statesman like and showing all the quality's of a great leader...its the party that's letting him down, its the right wing of the party that has taken its collective bat and ball and gone home to reminisce about the good old (Howard) days.

Pathetic.

This kind of remind's me of the Democrat's implosion and subsequent destruction.


----------



## drsmith (26 November 2009)

So_Cynical said:


> Turnbull is being statesman like and showing all the quality's of a great leader...its the party that's letting him down, its the right wing of the party that has taken its collective bat and ball and gone home to reminisce about the good old (Howard) days.



Regardless of the merits of his position a great leader he is not.

One need look no further than the trail of wreckage in his wake to see that.


----------



## Dukey (26 November 2009)

moXJO said:


> Oh you mean Turnbulls 'save the children' speech, C'mon. We are 1% of the pollution, and this ets will do bugger all for global warming. But you can be sure it will do a lot for ripping tax off us. We don't need to rush something through when the details about it are so vague. If a giant step into the 21st century means believing this is for the environment, then I might stick it out here for a bit.
> I am for less pollution, but this ets is just too vague. The manner in which they are trying to rush it through is also worrying




to me it's more about the libs pulling their heads out of the sand and looking forward instead of back to the 'golden years' of johnny.. who looked back to the golden years of menzies.

the ets will come - whether it's now or later probably won't make much diff.  Whether it has any real effect depends on joe public and businesses changing a little, or alot.  either way - it's going to happen so we might a swell bite the bullet and get on with it - there maybe some benefits in taking the lead.


----------



## moXJO (26 November 2009)

So_Cynical said:


> Not pointing the finger at anyone in particular but i have to say that i find the depth of political naivety from many posters in this thread, and other similar ones to be breathtaking.
> 
> Turnbull is being statesman like and showing all the quality's of a great leader...its the party that's letting him down, its the right wing of the party that has taken its collective bat and ball and gone home to reminisce about the good old (Howard) days.
> 
> ...




Oh please: you’re just happy he is supporting something labor spat out Maybe you sucked up that 'we have made a commitment' part of the speech he gave. Yeah that will make me feel better while I am shelling out more cash for yet another policy that does not work.
Sorry this ets is a crock, that’s the issue. And there is plenty of time to go over the details (or at least there should be) Not interested in your love of all things Malcolm.


----------



## moXJO (26 November 2009)

Dukey said:


> to me it's more about the libs pulling their heads out of the sand and looking forward instead of back to the 'golden years' of johnny.. who looked back to the golden years of menzies.
> 
> the ets will come - whether it's now or later probably won't make much diff.  Whether it has any real effect depends on joe public and businesses changing a little, or alot.  either way - it's going to happen so we might a swell bite the bullet and get on with it - there maybe some benefits in taking the lead.




I'd rather a straight out carbon tax, at least there would be less surprises.

Bit on ets effects


http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Doing-business-in-the-dark-pd20091125-Y4U5W?OpenDocument&src=sph


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## noco (26 November 2009)

IMHO if Turnbull goes it will throw the Labor Party into turmoil, the ETS will be out the proverbial window and I maintain there are several Labor politicians hoping the same. The problem with the Labor politicians who are against the ETS is the fact they fear retribution by Rudd.


----------



## So_Cynical (26 November 2009)

moXJO said:


> Oh please: you’re just happy he is supporting something labor spat out.




No not at all...i just thought that Malcolm's speech tonight was a great political speech with broad, simplistic appeal...just what the libs need to appeal to the middle ground...however its now clear to me that this sort of talk is a turn off to the core liberals/Nationals.

Core Liberals are so far to the right that they cant seem to understand the need for broad appeal, its the core that seems to need pandering to and demands attention even in the face of electoral destruction....Bizarre

For the record, i to would prefer a straight out carbon tax...with no restrictions on offset creation, however politics is about what's achievable not what's best or what u or i want.


----------



## rhen (27 November 2009)

So_Cynical said:


> No not at all...i just thought that Malcolm's speech tonight was a great political speech with broad, simplistic appeal...just what the libs need to appeal to the middle ground...however its now clear to me that this sort of talk is a turn off to the core liberals/Nationals.
> 
> Core Liberals are so far to the right that they cant seem to understand the need for broad appeal, its the core that seems to need pandering to and demands attention even in the face of electoral destruction....Bizarre
> 
> For the record, i to would prefer a straight out carbon tax...with no restrictions on offset creation, however politics is about what's achievable not what's best or what u or i want.




Yes? Well, "simplistic" I can agree with. 
Me? I'm not convinced there is global warming due to carbon dioxide...at least not to the extent Mr Gore purports.
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index....ecord_id=2158072e-802a-23ad-45f0-274616db87e6
I certainly don't trust politicians to interpret accurately for me (unless Barry Jones returns) the scientific consequences.
Rather, I fear those political consequences...you know, the inflation and tax consequences that have the potential to send us all to penury under the guise of Rudd's "glorius" tilt at global warming...shades of Canute or Quixote, take your pick.


----------



## Tink (27 November 2009)

Dukey said:


> to me it's more about the libs pulling their heads out of the sand and looking forward instead of back to the 'golden years' of johnny.. who looked back to the golden years of menzies.
> 
> *the ets will come - whether it's now or later *




I think you have hit the nail on the head. 

The last year in politics has been a circus.


----------



## nulla nulla (27 November 2009)

noco said:


> IMHO this thread will be dead and buried by Monday Nov 30. I doubt Turnbull can survive this latest debacle and hoping, the end of the ETS.




Actualy the interview he gave on Channel 7 Sunrise this morning is probably the best I have heard him give in respect of the relevence of the Liberal Party moving forward. 
Having gained changes to the proposed legislation on the basis that they would support the legislation with those changes, they would lose all credibility if they now reneged on their commitment to pass the amended legislation. Rudd would have a field day, at their expense, in any election campaign.


----------



## Tink (27 November 2009)

I read an article a while ago that said, for the Libs to move forward, they had to get rid of the dead wood (Howard Loyals). 

Looks like they might have jumped the ship.

Be interesting to see what happens in the next few days.


----------



## Knobby22 (27 November 2009)

Tink said:


> I read an article a while ago that said, for the Libs to move forward, they had to get rid of the dead wood (Howard Loyals).
> 
> Looks like they might have jumped the ship.
> 
> Be interesting to see what happens in the next few days.




If Turnbull loses and one of the deadwood get in, they definitely won't get my vote. I reckon the party should have a purge of those who resigned as people willing to damage the party to try to further their careers.

You can't get back in power by appealing to the right, you have to take the middle ground.


----------



## Knobby22 (27 November 2009)

So_Cynical said:


> For the record, i to would prefer a straight out carbon tax...with no restrictions on offset creation, however politics is about what's achievable not what's best or what u or i want.




I am like you, in fact I reckon most of the educated Joe Public would agree.


----------



## dbcok (27 November 2009)

Article in the Age newspaper suggesting that the Howard loyals were getting strategy advice straight from John Howard.Now that is not surprising,
Turnbull has gained respect from me over this,but will he survive?All will be revealed in due course.


----------



## refined silver (27 November 2009)

Turnbull is an ex-Goldman Sachs president who sucked $100m in personal wealth for himself from the system. His venture into politics is only to pay back Goldman and banking buddies from inside politics.

His unwavering support for the ETS is because the biggest beneficiaries of a complex ETS system would be the derivative trading desks of the major banks.

The weekend Australian had a great article about how Goldman works and how after they've made their personal tens and hundreds of millions they go off to get jobs in the regulatory and political system to keep the money flowing to the top banks.


----------



## Julia (27 November 2009)

moXJO said:


> And not a moment too soon imo. Turnbull seems to have done more for labor causes, rather then been any help to liberals.






moXJO said:


> Rudd is trying to rush the ets through tomorrow while Turnbull is still in a position of power. Why the need for the rush? It will make zero difference to the environment if we wait till February. Except that the general public might realize what’s going on
> Rudd has made out the world would end if we didn’t tax force this tax on Australians asap.
> Notice Rudd once again dodges the flack from the media for putting this ****e on the table. Be nice to know exactly how much of a difference this ets will make on global warming.



Um, none, actually.



So_Cynical said:


> Not pointing the finger at anyone in particular but i have to say that i find the depth of political naivety from many posters in this thread, and other similar ones to be breathtaking.



I'd suggest that it's you who are being naive if you really think the amended ETS is actually about doing anything to change the climate, rather than advancing Mr Rudd's political aspirations on the world stage.




> Turnbull is being statesman like and showing all the quality's of a great leader...its the party that's letting him down, its the right wing of the party that has taken its collective bat and ball and gone home to reminisce about the good old (Howard) days.



That would be fine if this piece of legislation actually would do anything to 'save our children and grandchildren' etc.  It won't.
Therefore, I'd say Turnbull is making a martyr of himself (a) for no good reason, and (b) because he has painted himself into this corner and can't get out without looking silly.

His style has been to make unilateral decisions without adequately considering the wishes or views of all his party.  They simply don't like that.
It's not just on this issue that he has adopted this presidential style.
He has shown himself to be politically inept from the beginning.  Just consider Utegate as an example.




noco said:


> IMHO if Turnbull goes it will throw the Labor Party into turmoil, the ETS will be out the proverbial window and I maintain there are several Labor politicians hoping the same. The problem with the Labor politicians who are against the ETS is the fact they fear retribution by Rudd.



Noco, I disagree.  The Labor Party wins whatever happens.  If Turnbull does manage to convince his members to vote for the ETS, the government wins.
If he doesn't, they have plenty of material with which to justifiably taunt the Opposition all the way to the next election.

If there are as you suggest Labor politicians against the ETS (and I've no seen no evidence of this), then their party discipline won't be letting it show.




refined silver said:


> Turnbull is an ex-Goldman Sachs president who sucked $100m in personal wealth for himself from the system. His venture into politics is only to pay back Goldman and banking buddies from inside politics.
> 
> His unwavering support for the ETS is because the biggest beneficiaries of a complex ETS system would be the derivative trading desks of the major banks.
> 
> The weekend Australian had a great article about how Goldman works and how after they've made their personal tens and hundreds of millions they go off to get jobs in the regulatory and political system to keep the money flowing to the top banks.



Ah, and so to the truth to a large extent.  
I also think Mr Turnbull probably genuinely believes in the need for an ETS.
One would have hoped, however, that he would have listened to the now prevailing view (not just within his party) that this legislation is so flawed as to be useless, even counter-productive.

Many of the people who are presently so outraged would be quite accepting of a consideration of an ETS - or preferably a straight carbon tax - following global agreements at Copenhagen.

It's the indecent haste which has accompanied this whole event that has been wrong.


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## Calliope (27 November 2009)

Julia said:


> I also think Mr Turnbull probably genuinely believes in the need for an ETS.




I think you are right. I am not sure that Rudd does. You can never be sure of the motives of a slippery customer like him. 

Turnbulls electorate is the leafy and rich suburbs of Wentworth and this is the  demographic most likely to support feel good causes like the ETS, unlike the residents of the coal mining areas, whose jobs may depend on it.

Most likely, if Wentworth did not have Malcolm they would vote Green.

When he is defrocked he will probably resign, and bang goes another "safe" Liberal seat.


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## Krusty the Klown (27 November 2009)

refined silver said:


> Turnbull is an ex-Goldman Sachs president who sucked $100m in personal wealth for himself from the system. His venture into politics is only to pay back Goldman and banking buddies from inside politics.
> 
> His unwavering support for the ETS is because the biggest beneficiaries of a complex ETS system would be the derivative trading desks of the major banks.
> 
> The weekend Australian had a great article about how Goldman works and how after they've made their personal tens and hundreds of millions they go off to get jobs in the regulatory and political system to keep the money flowing to the top banks.




Just like on Wall Street....


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## noco (27 November 2009)

From what I understand about the rebellion in Turnbull's ranks is the disceit and disregard he has shown to his shadow cabinet. From what I understand, the true fact is, Turnbull did not have a clear majority with his shadow cabinet ministers, but still went ahead with his crazy presentation of ETS ammendments to the Labor Party.  He was sucked in by Rudd who realized how commited and deicated Turnbull was to Climate Change.
Turnbull may have been more genuine than Rudd, who we all know now,that Rudd has a hidden agenda to be World leader.
With the conspiracy and fraud by the IPCC scientist now out in the open, I can't understand why Turnbull did not use this as a tool to reject the ETS completely. More and more SCEPTICS are joining the ranks as they realize the ETS will do nothing to reduce CO2 emissions. All it will do is cost the average Joe Blow $1000 per year; one may as well say it is  an extra 2.5% on the GST. 
He has been outsmarted by Rudd once again and deserves to be kicked out.I doubt he will rise from the ashes and as I stated before, this thread will be dead and buried on Monday. I will apologise if I am wrong.


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## OzWaveGuy (27 November 2009)

refined silver said:


> Turnbull is an ex-Goldman Sachs president who sucked $100m in personal wealth for himself from the system. His venture into politics is only to pay back Goldman and banking buddies from inside politics.
> 
> His unwavering support for the ETS is because the biggest beneficiaries of a complex ETS system would be the derivative trading desks of the major banks.
> 
> The weekend Australian had a great article about how Goldman works and how after they've made their personal tens and hundreds of millions they go off to get jobs in the regulatory and political system to keep the money flowing to the top banks.




And this is crux of the issue. It's not about Turnbull not listening or being stupid etc, it's about the development of a new financial world structure using the ETS's of the world to fuel it.


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## Uncle Barry (27 November 2009)

Good afternoon OWGuy,
Thanks, at long, long last, someone is thinking !

As this is the real trick, behind ETS.

Climate Change, without it the place known as Earth would die.
CC HAS BEEN HAPPENING SINCE THE START OF TIME ON EARTH.

ps, its about time some people used their God given brains and started reading instead of repeating like dick.....ds what the media has been pouring down your throats,

the very same media that tricked you with............

Remember this bug that in the year 2000 was going to destroy all computers, crash banking and every airoplane

Remember the bull s..t that was the WMD claim...that cost thousands of lives,
BUT
made a lot of people money.

then sit back and start reading, AND using your brians.

then ask yourself, 
what has the government done for me?
what has the government done for themselves ?

Kind regards,
UB


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## Krusty the Klown (27 November 2009)

noco said:


> we all know now,that Rudd has a hidden agenda to be World leader.




Really? I must have missed that in the news.

Can you point me toward the evidence?

DISCLOSURE: I do not support the Liberal, Labor or National parties.



Uncle Barry said:


> Good afternoon OWGuy,
> Thanks, at long, long last, someone is thinking !
> 
> As this is the real trick, behind ETS.
> ...




It's good to see another thinker out there Uncle Baz. 

Before climate change became trendy, we were 10,000 years out from the next ice age, which would destroy the current global economy anyway. According to geological evidence that is the natural climate cycle.

Perhaps with CO2 emissions we have discovered a tool to prevent and control the next ice age, or indeed control the global climate that is IF man made activity is to blame.

Extrapolating this idea in to the future, you could envisage that it could be used as a weapon of war!!!! To manipulate something like the El Niño cycle so that a certain country or continent is in permanent drought and destabilising their economy and ability to conduct a war!!

P.S Yes it is Friday night and I have had a couple of beers, but the logic is still there!!!!


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## trainspotter (27 November 2009)

Turnbull is running the Liberal Party like a CEO and not as a smart politician. His uphandedness has tweaked the noses of too many in the fold and they have responded accordingly by splitting the party into fragments that are unable to be glued back together. IMO


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## So_Cynical (27 November 2009)

Julia said:


> I'd suggest that it's you who are being naive if you really think the amended ETS is actually about doing anything to change the climate, rather than advancing Mr Rudd's political aspirations on the world stage.




Please Julia...the names Cynical not Gullible, however i know the ETS will have a small impact on our GHG emissions but nothing like what the green left thinks is needed...using a "Kyoto" 1990 base line would have an impact, anything less is compromise and this current ETS is a grand compromise.

U guys would really be upset if we had a fair dinkum ETS before the senate, an ETS within the Kyoto frame work would have 2 or 3 times the impact of this one.


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## noco (29 November 2009)

*Is Turnbull a Labor Party stooge?*

It was mooted some time ago Malcolm Turnbull tried to enter politics via the Labor Party but for some unknown reason he was refused entry.

Was he a plant in the Coalition to be used by the Labor Party some time down the track, like now.

He has become so possessed with this ETS that it almost appears he is a Labor Party sympathiser. If Malcolm Turnbull had been on ABC Insiders this morning with Julia Gillard, I'm sure  she would have embraced him like a long lost brother.


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## nulla nulla (30 November 2009)

*Re: Is the Liberal party locked in a time warp?*

While the media focus shifts to the infighting within the Liberal Party, still clinging to the Menzies era's that Howard lost his seat trying to maintain, the root of the current problem still needs to be addressed. 

The human contribution to global warming needs to be reduced now. 

In this respect Malcolm Turnball appears to be the only liberal focused on the most relevent issue of today.


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## Tink (30 November 2009)

He is 'Malcolm in the Middle'.

He clashed with all them in the Republican debate, and here he is clashing with them again.

We will see what happens Tuesday.


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## moXJO (30 November 2009)

*Re: Is the Liberal party locked in a time warp?*



nulla nulla said:


> The human contribution to global warming needs to be reduced now.
> 
> In this respect Malcolm Turnball appears to be the only liberal focused on the most relevent issue of today.




This is the type of hysterical nonsense being spun in this country. Australia has time to read the details, before committing to this ets. Australia would be better off at this stage to provide water security, and possible climate change preparation strategies. We can't save the world by reducing Aust carbon 
On the other hand California is in a green tech boom through incentives, innovation and nurturing startups. From what I have read they are once again pushing the technology (and this from a broke state). Australia has more than enough ability to follow suit if the government were truly committed.

This ets is more about Rudd grandstanding to the world, and a massive tax boost which will more than likely be squandered through bureaucratic bs. If you want actual emission reductions then vote the greens in, at least you know what their actual motive is.


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## Uncle Barry (30 November 2009)

Good morning Nulla
"The human contribution to global warming needs to be reduced now. "

OK Nulla, 
please give me some facts why.
not just 'stuff' from Krudd and Co, 
some facts that would date back to say, the 12th century, so that GW can be a real proven fact.

And while your researching the facts,
please tell me why the Earth goes through warming and cooling cycles, like its done from the start of time.

Why there was rain forests on what is known as the south pole
Why Greenland back in Viking times was about 5 to 10 degrees warmer than it is today.

Many thanks in advance for your research and information.

Kind regards,
UB


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## noco (1 December 2009)

Turnbull has been buried in the ashes. Tony Abbott has risen to the occassion. Lets hope he can maintain the status quo.

This thread is now dead and buried.


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## bloomy88 (1 December 2009)

Have the feeling though that Abbott wont do much better


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## Aussiejeff (1 December 2009)

bloomy88 said:


> Have the feeling though that Abbott wont do much better




Libs need 'Lou' Costello to make a comeback as 'Bud' Abbott's sidekick.

Abbott & Costello always were good for a larf....


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## justjohn (1 December 2009)

Turnbull and that useless smiling piece of crap ''HAPPY JOE'' can both join the Labor party and play with the ETS as much as they like


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## bloomy88 (1 December 2009)

Aussiejeff said:


> Libs need 'Lou' Costello to make a comeback as 'Bud' Abbott's sidekick.
> 
> Abbott & Costello always were good for a larf....




Now Costello would give Labor a run for the money


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## justjohn (1 December 2009)

Aussiejeff said:


> Libs need 'Lou' Costello to make a comeback as 'Bud' Abbott's sidekick.
> 
> Abbott & Costello always were good for a larf....




Costello would have made mince meat out of these amatuers at question time but alas we will never witness it


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## Timmy (1 December 2009)

justjohn said:


> Costello would have made mince meat out of these amatuers at question time but alas we will never witness it




And this is probably one of the greatest failings of the Libs during Howard's later reign - the failure to achieve some sort of succession planning.  (Of course, easy for me to say, and I will admit to not being a big fan of Mr Costello, but I can't help but wonder if today's Lib turmoil could have been avoided, or at least reduced a great deal?)  All water under the bridge now though.


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## justjohn (1 December 2009)

Timmy said:


> And this is probably one of the greatest failings of the Libs during Howard's later reign - the failure to achieve some sort of succession planning.  (Of course, easy for me to say, and I will admit to not being a big fan of Mr Costello, but I can't help but wonder if today's Lib turmoil could have been avoided, or at least reduced a great deal?)  All water under the bridge now though.




Every STRONG team goes through a re-building stage ,its just a process of finding and blooding new talent:


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## Timmy (1 December 2009)

justjohn said:


> Every STRONG team goes through a re-building stage ,its just a process of finding and blooding new talent:




Fair enough (be nice if they could do it a bit quicker though ).


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## noco (1 December 2009)

justjohn said:


> Turnbull and that useless smiling piece of crap ''HAPPY JOE'' can both join the Labor party and play with the ETS as much as they like




Don't laugh justjohn, Turnbull may well run with the Labor Party at the next election.

He  once applied to join the Labor Party and was refused entry. Was he a plant by the Labor Party to disunite the Coalition? Rudd is as cunning as a     s?@T house rat, and nothing would surprise me. There is espionage in corporations and it well happen  in politics too. Something to think about!!


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## So_Cynical (1 December 2009)

Well the looney Liberal right has got what it asked for...i can only hope Labor drive home the advantage with a DD election.


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## Krusty the Klown (1 December 2009)

noco said:


> Don't laugh justjohn, Turnbull may well run with the Labor Party at the next election.




You know that would not surprise me at all, he seems very mercenary, and very determined to get what he wants.


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## noco (1 December 2009)

So_Cynical said:


> Well the looney Liberal right has got what it asked for...i can only hope Labor drive home the advantage with a DD election.




I say bring it on! Rudd might be in for a bit of a  shock.


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## Julia (1 December 2009)

Timmy said:


> And this is probably one of the greatest failings of the Libs during Howard's later reign - the failure to achieve some sort of succession planning.  (Of course, easy for me to say, and I will admit to not being a big fan of Mr Costello, but I can't help but wonder if today's Lib turmoil could have been avoided, or at least reduced a great deal?)  All water under the bridge now though.



Timmy, there was an interview on "The World Today", ABC Radio, today with a Reader in Politics at one of the universities who has made a study of the Liberal Party.  She was asked by the journalist "Who do you blame for the mess the Liberal Party is presently in?"

Her reply:  "Peter Costello".

She suggested he had absolutely let the party down by refusing to accept the leadership and it has been all downhill from there.

Like him or not, he was politically astute, and could return in any debate whatever was handed out from the other side.

I don't believe he will ever be back, though, and no doubt is congratulating himself on exiting when he did.


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## Timmy (1 December 2009)

Julia said:


> Timmy, there was an interview on "The World Today", ABC Radio, today with a Reader in Politics at one of the universities who has made a study of the Liberal Party.  She was asked by the journalist "Who do you blame for the mess the Liberal Party is presently in?"
> 
> Her reply:  "Peter Costello".




Thanks Julia.  Like I said, I am no big fan of him, but I wont judge him harshly for the decision not to take on the role after the election.  He did his bit for many, many years.


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## So_Cynical (2 December 2009)

Timmy said:


> And this is probably one of the greatest failings of the Libs during Howard's later reign - the failure to achieve some sort of succession planning.  (Of course, easy for me to say, and I will admit to not being a big fan of Mr Costello, but I can't help but wonder if today's Lib turmoil could have been avoided, or at least reduced a great deal?)  All water under the bridge now though.




Yes and it was the Liberal right that was responsible for that (Costello never having the numbers) and its the same people that are responsible for the current mess...every one seems to forget that Howard stayed in power for so long because of the so called "Howard battlers" lower middle class Labor/swing voters.

The Howard, Costello and Fischer/Anderson show Kept the loonys at the fringes and thus had broad appeal to disheartened labor/swing voters....The Abbot, Bishop and Joyce/Tuckey show has all the appeal of a non lubricated pineapple enema.


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## noco (2 December 2009)

So_Cynical said:


> Yes and it was the Liberal right that was responsible for that (Costello never having the numbers) and its the same people that are responsible for the current mess...every one seems to forget that Howard stayed in power for so long because of the so called "Howard battlers" lower middle class Labor/swing voters.
> 
> The Howard, Costello and Fischer/Anderson show Kept the loonys at the fringes and thus had broad appeal to disheartened labor/swing voters....The Abbot, Bishop and Joyce/Tuckey show has all the appeal of a non lubricated pineapple enema.




This thread is dead and buried and I don't know why ASF members continue to post. Turnbull is kaput. full stop.


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## moXJO (2 December 2009)

noco said:


> This thread is dead and buried and I don't know why ASF members continue to post. Turnbull is kaput. full stop.




Labor supporters are pi$$ed they lost one of their members:


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## nulla nulla (2 December 2009)

Julia said:


> Timmy, there was an interview on "The World Today", ABC Radio, today with a Reader in Politics at one of the universities who has made a study of the Liberal Party.  She was asked by the journalist "Who do you blame for the mess the Liberal Party is presently in?"
> 
> Her reply:  "Peter Costello".
> 
> ...




You could also say that he was smart enough to know that the factions within the Liberal party would tear each other apart and that leadership of a disfunctional party would be more trouble than it was worth.


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## nulla nulla (2 December 2009)

Mr Turnbull has shown himself to be a resiliant and successful fellow in the past. No doubt, like most businessmen, he likes to see results in the short term rather than the long term. However given the self destructive attitudes and policies of those that voted against him, I'm sure he will be back to reunite the liberals and lead them out of the wilderness.


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## Julia (2 December 2009)

nulla nulla said:


> You could also say that he was smart enough to know that the factions within the Liberal party would tear each other apart and that leadership of a disfunctional party would be more trouble than it was worth.



Sure, and you could also say that he simply didn't relish the proposition of being in opposition.  He was always accused of not having much 'ticker'.


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## Calliope (6 April 2010)

It will be interesting to see what job Rudd offers Turnbull now that he is not re-contesting the next election. He knows that Turnbull is a swinging voter, and could have a future in the Labor Party.


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## nulla nulla (6 April 2010)

Julia said:


> Sure, and you could also say that he simply didn't relish the proposition of being in opposition.  He was always accused of not having much 'ticker'.




This seems to be an early call on the prospects of the liberals at the next election. Not "relishing the proposition of being in opposition" Mr Turnball has called it a day in federal politics...at least as a liberal.


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## noco (6 April 2010)

Calliope said:


> It will be interesting to see what job Rudd offers Turnbull now that he is not re-contesting the next election. He knows that Turnbull is a swinging voter, and could have a future in the Labor Party.




Could never work out why Labor rejected Turnbull's application to join the Labor Party!


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## Julia (6 April 2010)

nulla nulla said:


> This seems to be an early call on the prospects of the liberals at the next election. Not "relishing the proposition of being in opposition" Mr Turnball has called it a day in federal politics...at least as a liberal.



That could be the reason, but I think it's more likely that Mr Turnbull realised he would have no second invitation to lead the Libs.  His stakes fell irretrievably imo over the Godwin Grech affair, then he rode roughshod over the wishes of his party on Climate Change.
All up he demonstrated a woeful lack of political nous.

He will be much better off back in the business  world, something he understands and for which he has more of an aptitude than he does for politics.


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## nulla nulla (7 April 2010)

Julia said:


> That could be the reason, but I think it's more likely that Mr Turnbull realised he would have no second invitation to lead the Libs.  His stakes fell irretrievably imo over the Godwin Grech affair, then he rode roughshod over the wishes of his party on Climate Change.
> All up he demonstrated a woeful lack of political nous.
> 
> He will be much better off back in the business  world, something he understands and for which he has more of an aptitude than he does for politics.




Yes, the Godwin Grech affair would have been one of the first rounds of ammunition the labor party would roll out in an election campaign if Malcolm Turnball was leading the opposition into the election. 
It will be interesting to see what directorships are offered to Malcom. Peter Costello doesn't seem to have had many.


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## noco (1 May 2010)

noco said:


> Turnbull has been buried in the ashes. Tony Abbott has risen to the occassion. Lets hope he can maintain the status quo.
> 
> This thread is now dead and buried.




Well, it looks like I was wrong that this thread was dead and buried. Turnbull has risen from the ashes and has decided to renominate for the 2010 Federal Election now the ETS has been shelved. At least he won't have to cross the floor to side with Labor.

Does he now have the numbers to regain control of the coalition leadership?

Maybe he will if Abbott fails to win the oncoming the election or at least dramatically cut Rudd's majority..

Interesting days ahead!!!


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## wayneL (17 August 2015)

I'm running a book on when Mal is going to challenge.... Not a case of if,but when IMO


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## CanOz (17 August 2015)

wayneL said:


> I'm running a book on when Mal is going to challenge.... Not a case of if,but when IMO




Was wondering the same thing myself....perhaps he wants to avoid looking like labor?


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## wayneL (17 August 2015)

....... The choice IMO for the next election is social democracy under Turnbull or Short'un.


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## CanOz (17 August 2015)

wayneL said:


> ....... The choice IMO for the next election is social democracy under Turnbull or Short'un.




I really really hope labor doesn't get in again....


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## sptrawler (17 August 2015)

wayneL said:


> ....... The choice IMO for the next election is social democracy under Turnbull or Short'un.




If those are the options, Palmer and the Greens, will get a lot more of the vote.IMO

It is like saying you can vote Labor, or Labor, or someone else.


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## SirRumpole (17 August 2015)

sptrawler said:


> If those are the options, Palmer and the Greens, will get a lot more of the vote.IMO
> 
> It is like saying you can vote Labor, or Labor, or someone else.




Palmer is a shot duck imo. When his own party deserts him, why not everyone else ?


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## Knobby22 (17 August 2015)

sptrawler said:


> If those are the options, Palmer and the Greens, will get a lot more of the vote.IMO
> 
> It is like saying you can vote Labor, or Labor, or someone else.




Not really true though. Voting Turnbull will not be voting a Labor equivalent, brought up through the Unions to serve union interests. It will be voting for a Liberal more in the Menzies vein as against the present incumbent who thinks confusedly he is a US Tea Party member with Bob Santamaria affections..


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## So_Cynical (17 August 2015)

wayneL said:


> ....... The choice IMO for the next election is social democracy under Turnbull or Short'un.




Not enough moderates in the Noalition, Morrison will be the next leader and Shorten the next PM...the Noalition dont have the balls to dump 1 vote Tony.


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## noco (17 August 2015)

So_Cynical said:


> Not enough moderates in the Noalition, Morrison will be the next leader and Shorten the next PM...the Noalition dont have the balls to dump 1 vote Tony.




Turnbull should be the leader of the Labor Party...That is were his heart is and you can have him.


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## sptrawler (17 August 2015)

noco said:


> Turnbull should be the leader of the Labor Party...That is were his heart is and you can have him.




Actually, I would probably vote for the Labor Party, if Turnbull was leader. 

There is no way I would vote for Turnbull as leader of the Liberal Party.

It is all about balance IMO.

IMO Labor is full of losers, with the gift of the gab, who can't make it in mainstream life. So politics gives them an easy career.

Liberal are full of bored rich people that want to have a more public profile.

Intermixed are some politicians that really care.

Turnbull as Labor leader, would stop Labor, being a senseless rabble.

Turnbull as leader of the Liberals, would allow Labor, to make them a senseless rabble.


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## So_Cynical (18 August 2015)

noco said:


> Turnbull should be the leader of the Labor Party...That is where his heart is and you can have him.




Agree..and ill vote for him.


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## qldfrog (18 August 2015)

noco said:


> Turnbull should be the leader of the Labor Party...That is were his heart is and you can have him.




And Noco, not to be specific as you are not alone, with an attitude like yours, we got an extra term of crap labour in the past, got Tony now (would be VERY hard to find any positive except "he is not Labour"), and will get labour again at the next round...
Might help sometimes to let ideology aside and think for the better of Australia;

Unless you are paid by the right wing faction of the liberals to do your postings;
in that case, just a job so no blame .

A bit harsh but every day the deficits pile up, industry collapses, competition vanishes, corporate taxes and middle class are disappearing.
And this is a liberal government?You can not rule like the 1950's in a 2015 world.
Same can actually be said for most of labour too but that does not bring recomfort


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## MrBurns (18 August 2015)

noco said:


> Turnbull should be the leader of the Labor Party...That is were his heart is and you can have him.




He's too smart for them, he should start his own party now that would be interesting.


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## Tisme (18 August 2015)

MrBurns said:


> He's too smart for them, he should start his own party now that would be interesting.




Unfortunately Malcolm was always the bloke selected to be the Sergeant Howie of the Liberal Party. He just doesn't know he is the Wicker Man yet, but when the sacrifice begins and his mates start singing the Cuckoo Song ......


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## Knobby22 (18 August 2015)

MrBurns said:


> He's too smart for them, he should start his own party now that would be interesting.




It would be very interesting. Do a Don Chipp.


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## noco (29 September 2015)

So_Cynical said:


> Not enough moderates in the Noalition, Morrison will be the next leader and Shorten the next PM...the Noalition dont have the balls to dump 1 vote Tony.




Maybe you will now have to eat your words.


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## So_Cynical (29 September 2015)

So_Cynical said:


> (17th-August-2015) Not enough moderates in the Noalition, Morrison will be the next leader and Shorten the next PM...the Noalition dont have the balls to dump 1 vote Tony.




Turns out the Noalition wants to win the next election...couple of weeks can be a long time in politics.


----------

