# Man charged with rape, murder of Jill Meagher



## MrBurns (28 September 2012)

Just tragic and shocking and a grim reminder that you aren't safe on the streets.......ever.

They should have CCTV cameras everywhere, that's the only reason this case was solved so quickly.




> Man charged with rape, murder of Jill Meagher
> 
> A 41-year-old man will appear in the Melbourne Magistrates Court today charged with the rape and murder of ABC employee Jill Meagher.




http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-27/man-charged-with-rape-murder-of-jill-meagher/4284826


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## Tink (28 September 2012)

Good on you for starting this, Mr Burns.
Do we need more CCTV -- I say Yes.

I think this case has consumed Melbournians for a week. Yes it is tragic, had they not had that CCTV, this case would not be solved.
As said, excellent job by the police, public and CCTV.


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## MrBurns (28 September 2012)

Tink said:


> Good on you for starting this, Mr Burns.
> Do we need more CCTV -- I say Yes.
> 
> I think this case has consumed Melbournians for a week. Yes it is tragic, had they not had that CCTV, this case would not be solved.
> As said, excellent job by the police, public and CCTV.




That was a private CCTV too , they had other footage but that was the main one that did the job, I'd like to see them everywhere, Govt owned to make sure we're well covered.


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## springhill (28 September 2012)

The death penalty should be brought back for cases like this.

We put dogs and cats to sleep. Save the dog, kill the human. At least the dog has a chance to bring joy to someone's life in the future.

I am sick of females in our society being abused, assaulted, raped and murdered and the perpetrator never being held to account properly.

Bleeding heart society, please line up to the left and take a number.


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## prawn_86 (28 September 2012)

MrBurns said:


> Just tragic and shocking and a grim reminder that you aren't safe on the streets.......ever.
> 
> They should have CCTV cameras everywhere, that's the only reason this case was solved so quickly.




This is indeed a tragic and shocking case and my heart goes out to Jills family and friends.

However i couldn't disagree more with your statement about CCTV. It's a topic for another thread however


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## Tink (28 September 2012)

Well start a new thread then Prawn, as I think its important. 

CCTV is the reason this case has been solved and that guy has admitted to what he did, though I feel there is more to the story as in the other CCTV supposedly, the guy comes running towards her and a car does a U-turn -- things we would not know without CCTV.


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## MrBurns (28 September 2012)

News Ltd removed the Pay Wall from this story because of the intense interest.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...-against-suspect/story-e6frf7kx-1226482868669


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## Miss Hale (28 September 2012)

Very sad to hear what happened to Jill Meagher but I'm very glad they have arrested her killer.



Tink said:


> Good on you for starting this, Mr Burns.
> Do we need more CCTV -- I say Yes.
> 
> I think this case has consumed Melbournians for a week. Yes it is tragic, had they not had that CCTV, this case would not be solved.
> As said, excellent job by the police, public and CCTV.




I'm not sure you can say it would not have been solved without CCTV.  It may be that it has been solved a bit quicker but it's still quite possible that it would have been solved without the CCTV.  Sadly the CCTV didn't prevent the crime from happening, which is what we need to focus on more IMO.


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## MrBurns (28 September 2012)

Miss Hale said:


> Very sad to hear what happened to Jill Meagher but I'm very glad they have arrested her killer.
> 
> I'm not sure you can say it would not have been solved without CCTV.  It may be that it has been solved a bit quicker but it's still quite possible that it would have been solved without the CCTV.  Sadly the CCTV didn't prevent the crime from happening, which is what we need to focus on more IMO.




This isn't the time for nit picking CCTV was responsible for this bastard being in custody now, no if's or but's or maybe's . Bring it on I say.

CCTV wil prevent some of the crimes, when people see how it works they will be less inclined to act.


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## Tink (28 September 2012)

Sounds morbid, but he had less time to dispose of the body because they found him. 
I am sure he would have been shocked when he saw his photo in the paper the next day.


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## MrBurns (28 September 2012)

Tink said:


> Sounds morbid, but he had less time to dispose of the body because they found him.
> I am sure he would have been shocked when he saw his photo in the paper the next day.




He'll get a hard time in jail, the rest of his life will be hell.

It doesn't bring Jill Meagher back though........


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## DB008 (28 September 2012)

springhill said:


> The death penalty should be brought back for cases like this.
> 
> We put dogs and cats to sleep. Save the dog, kill the human. At least the dog has a chance to bring joy to someone's life in the future.




R.I.P. Jill

I agree 100% with your post springhill. The person who committed this barbaric act is a sorry excuse for a human being.

You are responsible for your actions, end of story. No excuses.

In a case like this, where there is CCTV footage, witnesses, plus, maybe, an admission to this crime - why waste tax payers money locking this slim-bag up for the next ~20 years.....


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## MrBurns (28 September 2012)

The media have full frontal pictures of this bloke to use after his trial.

They can't use them now as identity is an integral part of the whole process and photos identifying him would be seen as a contempt of court.

(in case you ever wondered why faces aren't shown)


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## DB008 (28 September 2012)

Don't know if this is allowed (will l get a warning for this??), but details of the killer are already out on the net.



> Adrian Bailey Raped and Murdered Jill Meagher
> http://aussiecriminals.com.au/2012/09/28/adrian-bailey-raped-and-murdered-jill-meagher/comment-page-1/






> Shortly afterwards, 41-year-old Adrian Bayley was charged with the rape and murder of the popular ABC Radio manager, who disappeared six days ago after spending an evening out with friends and work colleagues.
> 
> Mr Bayley did not enter a plea in the brief out of sessions court hearing, speaking only to say he understood the charges. He was wearing a navy blue shirt and jeans.
> 
> ...




and his facebook page 



> http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3ANYMmvMOITiUJ%3Awww.facebook.com%2Fadrian.bayley.5%20http%3A%2F%2Ffacebook.com%2Fadrian.bayley.5&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk


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## MrBurns (28 September 2012)

DB008 said:


> Don't know if this is allowed (will l get a warning for this??), but details of the killer are already out on the net.
> and his facebook page




This will jeapodise the case somewhat, it cant be helped though it's already out there, geez he looks just like a normal bloke, I was exoecting a wierdo of some kind.
Up to Joe to decide the legalities but I would take it down.


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## MrBurns (28 September 2012)

Oh he does have form ....assualt and sex crimes.
He has to kill somene before the law can take him off the streets.........it's wrong.


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## Tink (28 September 2012)

The only thing we didnt know was his history -- videos dont lie, we already knew what he looked like, thanks to CCTV.


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## DB008 (28 September 2012)

*Jill Meagher case: Bolt, Twitter users warned on comment*



> The family and former colleagues of Jill Meagher have urged social media users not to publish prejudicial statements about the man charged with the rape and murder of the ABC employee because of fears they could impact on a future trial.
> 
> Media law experts have also warned that social media users ”” even though they have no training in media law ”” could also be sued for defamation or contempt of court over comments about the case posted on blogs, Facebook or Twitter.
> 
> ...




http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/09/28/jill-meagher-case-bolt-twitter-users-warned-on-comment/


Here is that post that has been circulating.



> I wish all the "do gooders" would **** right off with "innocent until proven guilty" - he lead them to the body ****heads, is that just coincidence. Get in the real world you idiots. He raped, killed and dumped an innocent and beautiful woman who was a law abiding and contributing member of society, and he deserves fairness? **** off! He deserves to be wiped off the face of the earth in a painful manner. But instead we the tax payers will fund his life for the next couple of decades, provide him with resources such as tv, food and education. Is that justice for an innocent woman who did nothing wrong? Not in my book!


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## Joules MM1 (28 September 2012)

an idiot ?


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## sammy84 (28 September 2012)

Best thing anyone can do is not comment on the culpability of the alleged killer in this thread or anywhere else.

We need an impartial jury to decide the matter.

Similar to the argument run in the Tony Mockbel case, if the presumption of innocence is gone in the wider public then he can't be tried.


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## MrBurns (28 September 2012)

sammy84 said:


> Best thing anyone can do is not comment on the culpability of the alleged killer in this thread or anywhere else.
> 
> We need an impartial jury to decide the matter.
> 
> Similar to the argument run in the Tony Mockbel case, if the presumption of innocence is gone in the wider public then he can't be tried.




Thats a derivation of free speech, you'll never get people not to comment, it's the publishing of his photo thats the contempt of Court issue.

added - I mean as far as the general public go, media outlets have to toe the line.


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## white_goodman (28 September 2012)

MrBurns said:


> Thats a derivation of free speech, you'll never get people not to comment, it's the publishing of his photo thats the contempt of Court issue.
> 
> added - I mean as far as the general public go, media outlets have to toe the line.




champions free speech but wants a police state, what a dichotomy


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## MrBurns (28 September 2012)

white_goodman said:


> champions free speech but wants a police state, what a dichotomy




You don't understand, I'm talking about how things are not what I want.


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## sammy84 (28 September 2012)

MrBurns said:


> Thats a derivation of free speech, you'll never get people not to comment, it's the publishing of his photo thats the contempt of Court issue.




That might be the case but it seriously jeopardises the chances of a successful trial.  An impartial jury is essential in our legal system.

Any defence lawyer will be running an argument similar to Mockbel's -

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2007/s1988696.htm


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## namrog (29 September 2012)

sammy84 said:


> That might be the case but it seriously jeopardises the chances of a successful trial.  An impartial jury is essential in our legal system.
> 
> Any defence lawyer will be running an argument similar to Mockbel's -
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2007/s1988696.htm




This maggot led the police to the girls grave, how much more evidence is needed ..?

But maybe your right, if social media whatever that is, has the possibility of rendering court cases impossible to prosecute, then maybe it's something to look at, but I suspect that as long as it's making serious money or providing stats and info for the connected, then it's highly unlikely to be banned, restricted or similar..!!


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## Gringotts Bank (29 September 2012)

As horrible, sad and gruesome as this is, remember there's hundreds of innocents murdered each year in Australia, and thousands each year in other countries.  Had the victim not been fresh-faced, young and wholesome, you would hardly be aware of it.  Dos the fact that she lived in Melbourne mean more than if she had lived in Budapest?  What if she was not fresh-faced, wholesome and young?  On the news there were total strangers weeping at the dress shop where she disappeared.  Many of them didn't know her at all.

At first I wondered whether this was people being manipulated by the media.  Then I realized it wasn't so much about that, even though there's an element of this at play.  The root cause is that people believe that "bad things shouldn't happen to good people"... and the image of Jill was of a "good person".  We want to feel that if we are good, that somehow we are safe.  When this belief is ripped from under our feet, the reaction is strong.

Beliefs are extremely powerful.  What we feel is about us, not her.

I hope the family finds some peace.  But really... deep down... it's about me... just as your reaction is about you.


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## MrBurns (29 September 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> As horrible, sad and gruesome as this is, remember there's hundreds of innocents murdered each year in Australia, and thousands each year in other countries.  Had the victim not been fresh-faced, young and wholesome, you would hardly be aware of it.  Dos the fact that she lived in Melbourne mean more than if she had lived in Budapest?  What if she was not fresh-faced, wholesome and young?  On the news there were total strangers weeping at the dress shop where she disappeared.  Many of them didn't know her at all.
> At first I wondered whether this was people being manipulated by the media.  Then I realized it wasn't so much about that, even though there's an element of this at play.  The root cause is that people believe that "bad things shouldn't happen to good people"... and the image of Jill was of a "good person".  We want to feel that if we are good, that somehow we are safe.  When this belief is ripped from under our feet, the reaction is strong.
> Beliefs are extremely powerful.
> I hope the family finds some peace.




I think her fresh face typified the young woman of today, typical, out for a drink with friends then a short walk home.

Thousands do this all the time, not so much any more, this nasty piece of work took away the innocence and feeling of security for thousands of young women and those who love them, the fact we saw her moments before she was taken gives a chillling edge to it all.

It brings tears to many peoples eyes to see that footage and know that was the last time anyone saw her alive..

As for other murders here and overseas, yes they go on all the time but not as visible and to someone who was very much one of us.


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## Julia (29 September 2012)

Gringotts Bank:  your PM inbox is full.  Could you clear it out?


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## Happy (29 September 2012)

MrBurns said:


> ... , it's the publishing of his photo thats the contempt of Court issue.
> 
> added - I mean as far as the general public go, media outlets have to toe the line.




The trick is photo was published before he was charged officially.

I also think this 'fair trial' thing is a joke, not publishing photo.
Humans are emotional and prejudice is one of the traits that saves us from otherwise nasty surprises, so I think this 'fair trial' is political correctness for the sake of professional legal people who are more and more detached from real life.

Let's not forget that this monster was supposedly rehabilitated after violent sexual crime and on bail after king hit.
Whoever from parole board who signed off the release has some blame in his/her folder.

If everything was by the letter of the law, this precious snowflake would be still in locker.

Of course correct me if I am wrong.


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## MrBurns (29 September 2012)

Happy said:


> .
> 
> Of course correct me if I am wrong.




No you're right.

Photos have been removed from web sites, the justice system needs an overhaul, perhaps then we wouldn't hope this guy gets out so some real justice can be dispensed.


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## breaker (29 September 2012)

Look at the distain people have with the alleged perp to realize courts are out off touch


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## DB008 (29 September 2012)

I think that this case was different because it went Missing Person -> Suspect Found -> Body Found + social media.

I am sure that the same would have happened if the Samantha Knight tragedy had happened in this day and age.


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## sptrawler (30 September 2012)

I think, guilt beyond any shadow of doubt, won't be difficult to prove. If as reported, the suspect took the police to the body. One would think a confession was forthcomming.


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## Tink (30 September 2012)

Yes, there is a confession and he led her to the body. 

I think this case was different because of the CCTV footage, and the media/police calling the public in for help -- who is this man talking to her etc?
I think people would have got involved more so.
I like to see the outcome of all cases.

Agree with your comments Happy and Mr Burns, regarding leniency in our justice system.


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## delheidia5 (30 September 2012)

springhill said:


> The death penalty should be brought back for cases like this.
> 
> We put dogs and cats to sleep. Save the dog, kill the human. At least the dog has a chance to bring joy to someone's life in the future.
> 
> ...




Agree, Agree Agree wholeheartedly
The more public outcry over letting these people live the better.
The law has gone so far backwards in the last few decades that this type of behavious is almost now encouraged. - No reason not to commit these crimes - No real punishment.

What a big man! Can commit this against a defensless woman, but put him in a police car and all he can do is hide his ugly face from the media. 

How can his defence be jeopardised by us commenting when he took the police to her grave?

I now wonder if he will get some sort of lesser sentence because he plead guilty.
Isn't that part of the law a joke too.


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## MrBurns (30 September 2012)

delheidia5 said:


> I now wonder if he will get some sort of lesser sentence because he plead guilty.
> Isn't that part of the law a joke too.




This guy wil get life, anything less and there would be a riot.

The justice systen can work when it's forced to.

Too bad they've already let countless scum loose to roam free among us and our families.


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## MrBurns (30 September 2012)

> Thousands march in honour of Meagher
> 
> About 30,000 people have attended a march in honour of murdered Melbourne woman Jill Meagher in the city's north today.




http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-30/community-to-march-in-honour-of-meagher/4287762

Thats *30,000 *..............what an impact this has had on everyone.


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## Gringotts Bank (30 September 2012)

30000 people airing their dirty laundry.  That's all I saw.  

Just allow the poor family to grieve and stop adding to their difficulties.

If people desperately want to have a peace march (and achieve nothing), then do it without involving them.


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## MrBurns (30 September 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> 30000 people airing their dirty laundry.  That's all I saw.
> 
> Just allow the poor family to grieve and stop adding to their difficulties.
> 
> If people desperately want to have a peace march (and achieve nothing), then do it without involving them.




The family were there, WTF is wrong with you ?


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## Gringotts Bank (30 September 2012)

MrBurns said:


> The family were there, WTF is wrong with you ?



I definitely have sympathy for the poor girl and her family.  It's just the huge reaction from people that didn't know her.  At heart, such people are more concerned with themselves than the girl or her family.  It's just screwed up. 

Bad things happen to good people, and there's not a damn thing any peace march will do to remedy that.  That's how life is.


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## MrBurns (30 September 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> I definitely have sympathy for the poor girl and her family.  It's just the huge reaction from people that didn't know her.  At heart, such people are more concerned with themselves than the girl or her family.  It's just screwed up.
> 
> Bad things happen to good people, and there's not a damn thing any peace march will do to remedy that.  That's how life is.




When 30,000 people turn out there far more to it than you can understand it seems.


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## Gringotts Bank (30 September 2012)

MrBurns said:


> When 30,000 people turn out there far more to it than you can understand it seems.




Well you might be right, but that's how I see it.


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## MrBurns (30 September 2012)

Just heard the Greens in Melbourne, wanted to take out all the CCTV cameras, what a bunch of wreckless idiots.


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## gav (30 September 2012)

Following on from on what Gringotts Bank has said, I thought I'd look up some of the reported figures...

The following is from the Crime Statistics 2011/2012 report on the Victoria Police website:
http://www.police.vic.gov.au/content.asp?a=internetBridgingPage&Media_ID=72176

_"Homicide offences increased by 14.6% from 151 in 2010/11 to 173 in 2011/12. 140 of these offences were substantive, while 33 were attempted, conspiracy or incitement offences. The most common type of homicide offence was murder, with 91 offences.

There were 2,044 rape offences recorded in 2011/2012, an increase of 11.8% on the 1,828 offences
recorded in 2010/2011. As a rate per 100,000 population, rape increased by 10.3%."_


91 murders and over 2000 rapes in Victoria in just one year.


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## Julia (30 September 2012)

MrBurns said:


> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-30/community-to-march-in-honour-of-meagher/4287762
> 
> Thats *30,000 *..............what an impact this has had on everyone.






Gringotts Bank said:


> I definitely have sympathy for the poor girl and her family.  It's just the huge reaction from people that didn't know her.  At heart, such people are more concerned with themselves than the girl or her family.  It's just screwed up.
> 
> Bad things happen to good people, and there's not a damn thing any peace march will do to remedy that.  That's how life is.



+1, GB.   Gav has just provided the stats about murders and violent offences.
What is it about this girl that has prompted all the outpourings?
Why are we not equally distressed about every other person who has similarly violently lost their life?

I'm reminded of the Schapelle Corby case.  She, too, was a pretty young woman whom many - despite knowing nothing about her - immediately decided was totally innocent.

The media, as in the current case, swarmed all over it and even all these years later there are still intermittent articles about Schapelle.

Then another instance:  dozens of young people go missing every year, many never to be found.
Yet young Daniel Morcambe, who disappeared a few years ago from a bus stop at the Sunshine Coast, has been the subject of quite incredible resources and media attention.
Not to take away at all from the tragedy of a young boy lost, or the trauma endured by his family, but what was it that directed so much attention to this one child and virtually nothing to the many others still missing?

Is it media driven?  That would certainly apply in this Melbourne case.

If something similar had happened in my family, the last thing I'd want is the media swarming all over the site, over me and my family.  And the public march (what are they actually marching about?) and all the bunches of flowers at the door of a business which had nothing to do with anything other than happening to have the CCTV footage that picked up Jill and the accused.

Mr Burns, you seem to be completely at one with all this stuff.  Can you tell us what it's actually all about and what makes this unfortunate young woman so much an instant celebrity, albeit in death?


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## MrBurns (30 September 2012)

Julia said:


> +Mr Burns, you seem to be completely at one with all this stuff.  Can you tell us what it's actually all about and what makes this unfortunate young woman so much an instant celebrity, albeit in death?




The circumstances of this are such that everyone identifies with it.
We saw the girl in the CCTV footage next minute she’s abducted raped and killed.
What Jill Meagher did is no more than what a lot of women do every weekend.
Yes she was good looking as is Corby as are most women their age so that doesn’t really affect it.
What hits home is that no one is safe, there are creeps out there and too many of them in many cases set free by our weak legal system.
And this happened under everyones noses.
The case of Morcambe was, I think, boosted by his very proactive family.


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## IFocus (30 September 2012)

gav said:


> Following on from on what Gringotts Bank has said, I thought I'd look up some of the reported figures...
> 
> The following is from the Crime Statistics 2011/2012 report on the Victoria Police website:
> http://www.police.vic.gov.au/content.asp?a=internetBridgingPage&Media_ID=72176
> ...




Thanks Gav interesting numbers

I read an article the other day that put the point of view that serious crime was in fact falling (have seen this mention a few times) and that 90% +  (cannot remember the exact number) murders were committed by some one the victim knew.

Its more the media hype that puts its at the front of peoples minds.

Cannot find where I saw it

The murder of Jill Meagher is an extremely rare type but the impact of peoples thinking extremely high I know I certainly found it very emotional.

PS found it http://www.smh.com.au/national/bad-things-happen-to-good-people-but-its-rare-20120928-26q0m.html



> But crime statistics do not support those fears, showing the country's homicide rate is at historical lows, and what is alleged to have happened to Ms Meagher is rare.






> This is what psychologists call the "availability heuristic", meaning prominent events can be assumed to be more frequent or likely to occur.
> 
> "It's really salient in our minds that this has happened to somebody," Dr Helen Paterson, a lecturer in forensic psychology at the University of Sydney, said.
> 
> ...




Looks like I was a bit out with the numbers



> The most recent figures show there were 279 victims of homicide, a rate of 1.3 persons per 100,000 of the population, in 2009-10, according to the Australian Institute of Criminology's national homicide monitoring program.
> 
> The rate for women in that period is .85 per 100,000, compared with 1.66 per 100,000 for men.
> 
> ...


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## Tink (1 October 2012)

I think quite a few have asked the same question Julia. I must admit I was involved at the start of this case, but now that its solved, I am just waiting for justice to be served, I hope the sentence reflects the crime.
I am all for the push for CCTVs after this case.

I am wondering if its to do with her working for the ABC as well, and the coverage was coming from the news room, people were in shock. An average woman, no drugs, no problems.

I think the march was for violence -- not just for her. They want the streets cleaned of this mess and people feeling safe, seems some other people have come forward that they have encountered the same and were the lucky ones. Alot of the irish communities have come out.
Anyway, thats my interpretation.

If they are marching to stop the violence and lets get tough on crime, good on them, people are getting sick of these criminals, back on the streets and re-offending.


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## Tink (1 October 2012)

> THE mother of murdered Brunswick woman Jill Meagher has called for more CCTV cameras as the 29-year-old's husband thanked the community for its support.
> As more than 30,000 people flooded Sydney Rd, Brunswick, an emotional Edith McKeon made a brave visit to the street where her daughter was last seen alive.
> 
> She embraced strangers at the march and took in flowers and cards left as tributes along the busy street, including dozens left outside the Duchess Boutique where the ABC radio employee was last seen alive early on September 22.
> ...



http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...for-huge-support/story-e6frf7kx-1226484905035


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## JTLP (1 October 2012)

IFocus said:


> I read an article the other day that put the point of view that serious crime was in fact falling (have seen this mention a few times) and that 90% +  (cannot remember the exact number) murders were committed by some one the victim knew.




That's probably because classification and sentencing is such a joke.

On this whole Jill Meagher thing - massive tragedy - wouldn't wish it upon anyone...however a 30k 'peace march' and people weeping in the streets? I think I'm in the Gringotts camp (if i'm interpreting correctly) - so many people go missing/get murdered/abducted each year...why because the person has a career more in the limelight than others is this heralded as a 'big one'? RIP Jill but sheesh for the rest of Melbourne!


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## MrBurns (1 October 2012)

JTLP said:


> sheesh for the rest of Melbourne!




I doubt you'd be so flippant if this happened around the corner from you and your family, your wife, your kids.


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## Julia (1 October 2012)

MrBurns said:


> I doubt you'd be so flippant if this happened around the corner from you and your family, your wife, your kids.



I don't think he was being flippant, Mr Burns.  Just expressing the same sort of bewilderment some of us already have.  As for Jill being 'well known', I doubt anyone outside of the Melbourne ABC Radio office had ever heard of her before.  She wasn't a public presence, but was in an administrative position.


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## MrBurns (1 October 2012)

Julia said:


> I don't think he was being flippant, Mr Burns.  Just expressing the same sort of bewilderment some of us already have.  As for Jill being 'well known', I doubt anyone outside of the Melbourne ABC Radio office had ever heard of her before.  She wasn't a public presence, but was in an administrative position.




bewilderment ??? I think we just better accept that we completely misunderstand each other and move on.


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## JTLP (1 October 2012)

MrBurns said:


> I doubt you'd be so flippant if this happened around the corner from you and your family, your wife, your kids.




Not being flippant at all. It's a MASSIVE tragedy - but to sit back and see the outpouring of support this girl has received when (in their respective families eyes) just as many more important people are abducted/killed each year is perhaps a little...shall we say...over the top? 

I know your a very compassionate/heart on your sleeve person Burnsy and I like that - but look at the bigger picture. 



Julia said:


> I don't think he was being flippant, Mr Burns.  Just expressing the same sort of bewilderment some of us already have.  As for Jill being 'well known', I doubt anyone outside of the Melbourne ABC Radio office had ever heard of her before.  She wasn't a public presence, but was in an administrative position.




Thanks Julia and I didn't even know she was in an admin position. Seems the media hype had whipped me to believe that she was a reporter of some ilk (not that it matters...)


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## MrBurns (1 October 2012)

JTLP said:


> Not being flippant at all. It's a MASSIVE tragedy - but to sit back and see the outpouring of support this girl has received when (in their respective families eyes) just as many more important people are abducted/killed each year is perhaps a little...shall we say...over the top?
> 
> I know your a very compassionate/heart on your sleeve person Burnsy and I like that - but look at the bigger picture.
> 
> Thanks Julia and I didn't even know she was in an admin position. Seems the media hype had whipped me to believe that she was a reporter of some ilk (not that it matters...)




Sorry to take you the wrong way but I'll try again, this wasn't just about Jill it was about the thousands of women she represents, 10's of thousands who walk our streets, their security has been stripped away from them.

Yes there's plenty of other murders etc but not in circumstances like this, this was an extraordinary attack on an every day person and it pulled the rug out from underneath any feeling of security a woman feels when going about her every day business.


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## Knobby22 (1 October 2012)

Exactly :iagree:


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## MrBurns (1 October 2012)

Thanks Knobby........

And now because she was an ordinary person in an ordinary situation who was not only raped but murdered, she has become a symbol for every other woman that could have suffered her fate. People imagine what her last moments were like as this cretin took her life and it's just heartbreaking.

He, by the way, is in maximum security for his own protection but it's only a matter of time before he gets what's coming to him.....not that it will change what he's done.


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## Miss Hale (1 October 2012)

I don't understand the march really either.  Of course we all want our streets to be safe and have no violence, who in their right mind wouldn't?   Well only the few crazy people who go about raping and murdering people and they are highly unlikely to change their weirdo ways even if all of Melbourne marched about it. I also don't understand putting flowers in doorways of shops etc. It's the whole Princess Diana thing on a smaller scale.  It's sad, it's tragic but it's really none of our business now that he has been caught and the family should be left alone to grieve. People should care more about those closest to them intead of wasting their emotional energy on things that are nothing to do with them.


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## Julia (1 October 2012)

MrBurns said:


> Sorry to take you the wrong way but I'll try again, this wasn't just about Jill it was about the thousands of women she represents, 10's of thousands who walk our streets, their security has been stripped away from them.



Perhaps I'm over-cautious, but I'd never assume my safety in the early hours of the morning in any inner city street.   Imo no one's security has been 'stripped away from them'.  It was never actually there in the first place.



> [Yes there's plenty of other murders etc but not in circumstances like this, this was an extraordinary attack on an every day person and it pulled the rug out from underneath any feeling of security a woman feels when going about her every day business.



Ah, I think I finally get it.   It matters to such an extraordinary degree because she was *one of us*.
She looked like your wife or daughter, so it struck fear into your heart.

So different from the prostitute on her way home from work.  Or the junkie out to score wherever she could.
We don't make any fuss when women like these die.
I suppose they are easily dismissed because they are "not like us".


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## MrBurns (1 October 2012)

Julia said:


> Perhaps I'm over-cautious, but I'd never assume my safety in the early hours of the morning in any inner city street.   Imo no one's security has been 'stripped away from them'.  It was never actually there in the first place.
> 
> 
> Ah, I think I finally get it.   It matters to such an extraordinary degree because she was *one of us*.
> ...




Prostitutes and junkies move in circles where violence is a way of life, BTW I havent heard of any being murdered lately, but I don't think you understand so lets leave it at that.
Playing that card shows defensiveness borne of lack of understanding.....or lack of genuine empathy.


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## MrBurns (1 October 2012)

Miss Hale said:


> I don't understand the march really either.  Of course we all want our streets to be safe and have no violence, who in their right mind wouldn't?   Well only the few crazy people who go about raping and murdering people and they are highly unlikely to change their weirdo ways even if all of Melbourne marched about it. I also don't understand putting flowers in doorways of shops etc. It's the whole Princess Diana thing on a smaller scale.  It's sad, it's tragic but it's really none of our business now that he has been caught and the family should be left alone to grieve. People should care more about those closest to them intead of wasting their emotional energy on things that are nothing to do with them.




Really all I can say is there were 30,000 who actually marched and probably another million or more who were there in spirit.
I've explained it as best I can.


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## Julia (1 October 2012)

MrBurns said:


> Prostitutes and junkies move in circles where violence is a way of life, BTW I havent heard of any being murdered lately,



And that is my point.  You don't hear about such murders, let alone rapes.  
Some lives have more value than others.


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## MrBurns (1 October 2012)

Julia said:


> And that is my point.  You don't hear about such murders, let alone rapes.
> Some lives have more value than others.




I think we hear all about it if anyone is murdered
Perhaps the rape of a prostitute is viewed differently to the rape of Nun
Some lives may have more value than others not in terms of grief to relatives and friends but in terms of what they contribute to society.


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## McLovin (2 October 2012)

MrBurns said:


> I think we hear all about it if anyone is murdered




Most murders are not reported in the media or are nothing more than a "person charged with murder will appear in xxxx court for hearing" blurb. Junkies and street walkers being murdered just isn't newsworthy because no one really cares.


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## Miss Hale (2 October 2012)

I think in some instances there is more publicity if it is thought that that publicity will help find the person missing or catch the murderer (whatever the case may be).  I assumed that was the situation it this case, especially with the CCTV images of Jill talking to people not long before she disappeared.


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## Gringotts Bank (2 October 2012)

Julia said:


> Ah, I think I finally get it.   It matters to such an extraordinary degree because she was *one of us*.
> She looked like your wife or daughter, so it struck fear into your heart.
> 
> So different from the prostitute on her way home from work.  Or the junkie out to score wherever she could.
> ...




Yep.  A life is a life is a life.  If you take the reaction and drill down just a little way, there's _massive judgment _about who is valuable, who is not.... who is worthy of support and who is not.  If sympathy really is one's favourite game, then the drug-addicted prostitute would actually be more worthy of tears.  

Even more unfortunate is the fact that the reaction is not helping the poor family at all, but probably aggravating the situation.  Rather than offering real support, they are simply expressing the fact that they are now scared to walk in the dark.  *This is extremely self-absorbed behaviour.*  "I AM SCARED!!!" - well bully for you!!  Go and get some valium!  What about the family??


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## Julia (2 October 2012)

McLovin said:


> Most murders are not reported in the media or are nothing more than a "person charged with murder will appear in xxxx court for hearing" blurb. Junkies and street walkers being murdered just isn't newsworthy because no one really cares.



My point exactly.


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## MrBurns (2 October 2012)

McLovin said:


> Most murders are not reported in the media or are nothing more than a "person charged with murder will appear in xxxx court for hearing" blurb. Junkies and street walkers being murdered just isn't newsworthy because no one really cares.




I'd like to see evidence of that.

Every time a taxi driver is killed or even assualted it's big news.

The circumstances of the crime will dictate how much coverage it gets but there wouldn't be many murders that dont attract media attntion.

The circumstances of some are such that they get a lot of media attention.

I think it's peurile of several in here to try to dismiss the actions of 10's of thousands of people and the murder of an innocent woman because you think this murder got more attention than someone elses.


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## McLovin (2 October 2012)

MrBurns said:


> I'd like to see evidence of that.




You mean something like this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome

I think that syndrome covers this thread quite well.

On the flipside, people also obsess when a pretty, white woman is accused of murder, like Foxy Knoxy.


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## MrBurns (2 October 2012)

McLovin said:


> You mean something like this...
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome
> 
> ...




That says nothing about how many murders are reported in the media and are all prostitutes black ?

Ther surly backhanded resentment of the attention this is getting by a few in here is quite off putting.


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## McLovin (2 October 2012)

MrBurns said:


> That says nothing about how many murders are reported in the media and are all prostitutes black ?




I would take "adversity" in the first sentence of the article to include murder. Here are some recent cases that a search of Google have returned no news articles.

http://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/action/PJUDG?s=1000,jgmtid=160804

http://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/action/PJUDG?s=1000,jgmtid=160714

http://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/action/pjudg?s=1000,jgmtid=160551

http://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/action/pjudg?s=1000,jgmtid=160101

This piece of work not only murdered the child but also raped her beforehand...

http://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/action/pjudg?s=1000,jgmtid=160367

I'm sure you could trawl through the cases and pull up plenty more. Those were taken from the 10 most recent cases from the NSW SC with the keyword "murder". The ones in the news generally had some interesting aspect. An accountant who killed a lotto winning client, a woman who mutilated her husband's penis etc. 

White, middle-class, females being murdered sells newspapers because their audience can relate to the story. It hits a little too close to home.

I don't understand your black prosititute question, sorry.


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## Knobby22 (2 October 2012)

Yes, but the point Mr Burns made is that it was random.
It didn't involve money or drugs etc. 
It involved a women walking home who could be anyone's daughter or wife, being murdered.

It means we all have to fear a bit more for the women in our midst. The walk was a backlash saying we object to this fear and we will not give easily and we will not blame the victim.


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## MrBurns (2 October 2012)

http://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/action/PJUDG?s=1000,jgmtid=160804

Crim kills a crim in custody, so what.

http://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/action/PJUDG?s=1000,jgmtid=160714

Nut case but I bet it got into the papers anyway,

http://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/action/pjudg?s=1000,jgmtid=160551

Money probably drugs

http://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/action/pjudg?s=1000,jgmtid=160101

Another nut but doesnt kill a stranger ptobably something else going on.

This piece of work not only murdered the child but also raped her beforehand...

http://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/action/pjudg?s=1000,jgmtid=160367

Nut case would have been in the news for sure,


You and others wander into a thread about a murdered woman and proceed to dissect it as if it is getting too much attention.

Put simply you just dont get it, despite previous explanations, which shouldn't have been nessessary in the first place.


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## McLovin (2 October 2012)

MrBurns said:


> http://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/action/PJUDG?s=1000,jgmtid=160804
> 
> Crim kills a crim in custody, so what.
> 
> ...




Where did I say it was getting too much attention? All I said was that when a white woman gets murdered it receives more attention. You are making inferences about things I never said.

Your "crim kills crim in custody, so what" comment makes my point better than I could, so I'll leave it at that.


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## MrBurns (2 October 2012)

McLovin said:


> Where did I say it was getting too much attention? All I said was that when a white woman gets murdered it receives more attention. You are making inferences about things I never said.
> 
> Your "crim kills crim in custody, so what" comment makes my point better than I could, so I'll leave it at that.




You've been inferring that all along don't backflip now..........ok retract that, it was others who were saying that, you came in late, so I'll backflip

Yeah where were those 30,000 people when Carl Williams got whacked, damn unfair I say


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## McLovin (2 October 2012)

Fair enough.


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## Happy (2 October 2012)

Cannot believe that the biggest worry is, if this precious unique snowflake will have fair trial.

Suppose poor woman’s unfair murder is just the emotionless case now.

Will it ever get back to some proper perspective on multi-offending recidivists?


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## MrBurns (2 October 2012)

Happy said:


> Cannot believe that the biggest worry is, if this precious unique snowflake will have fair trial.
> 
> Suppose poor woman’s unfair murder is just the emotionless case now.
> 
> Will it ever get back to some proper perspective on multi-offending recidivists?




This particular creep will wish he were dead before long, the other prisoners can hardly wait for a chance to get their hands on him.

It's the cost of the trial that is BS, the guy has confessed so whats the expense for ?


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## Happy (2 October 2012)

MrBurns said:


> This particular creep will wish he were dead before long, the other prisoners can hardly wait for a chance to get their hands on him.
> ...




Because of this he will just cost us more, as protective cells cost lots, lots more.


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## Miss Hale (5 October 2012)

A few days ago I heard that the family where to have a private funeral for Jill and had asked for privacy at this difficult time.  Why then have we had a blow by blow description of the funeral in every news bulliten today; mourners arrive for funeral, mourners given white ribbons, white doves released at the funeral etc. Surely the press she be well away from this? There is no way in the world this can be called news and the public has no right to know anything about this _private_ funeral


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## Gringotts Bank (5 October 2012)

Miss Hale said:


> A few days ago I heard that the family where to have a private funeral for Jill and had asked for privacy at this difficult time.  Why then have we had a blow by blow description of the funeral in every news bulliten today; mourners arrive for funeral, mourners given white ribbons, white doves released at the funeral etc. Surely the press she be well away from this? There is no way in the world this can be called news and the public has no right to know anything about this _private_ funeral




Exactly.  And yet people on this thread, and all the losers on Facebook and all the peace marchers and all those who want to cure violence with more violence.... they're happy to trample all over the place like bulls in a china shop.  The poor mother must want to tell them all to **** off and mind their own business.


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## MrBurns (5 October 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> The poor mother must want to tell them all to **** off and mind their own business.




I doubt that, they wanted privacy for the actual funeral but thats all.

You wont stop the media, forget it but the people (who you describe so generously) I'm sure would be welcome but not in the church or graveside.


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## Julia (5 October 2012)

Miss Hale said:


> A few days ago I heard that the family where to have a private funeral for Jill and had asked for privacy at this difficult time.  Why then have we had a blow by blow description of the funeral in every news bulliten today; mourners arrive for funeral, mourners given white ribbons, white doves released at the funeral etc. Surely the press she be well away from this? There is no way in the world this can be called news and the public has no right to know anything about this _private_ funeral



Agree absolutely.  So rude.



Gringotts Bank said:


> Exactly.  And yet people on this thread, and all the losers on Facebook and all the peace marchers and all those who want to cure violence with more violence.... they're happy to trample all over the place like bulls in a china shop.  The poor mother must want to tell them all to **** off and mind their own business.



A couple of days ago the family did just that, politely of course.  Along the lines of "we appreciate the concern but please now allow us to grieve in private."
It was a very clear message.


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## Gringotts Bank (5 October 2012)

MrBurns said:


> I doubt that, they wanted privacy for the actual funeral but thats all.
> 
> You wont stop the media, forget it but the people (who you describe so generously) I'm sure would be welcome but not in the church or graveside.




I assume you and the others on here will be attending?


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## Gringotts Bank (5 October 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> I assume you and the others on here will be attending?




You probably think I'm saying these things just to be cruel and insensitive.

There's three major things wrong with the huge public reaction:

--the idea that you can gather enough public support to march your way to safety.  The world can be unsafe and that fact will never change.  Demanding safety and sureness is a disastrous way to live because it actually elevates the level of fear and tension.  Governments do this all the time.  People who drive with their headlights on during daylight hours are a good example of this too.   

--almost all compassion is self-concern in disguise.  The tears and the flowers and the sadness are unfortunately a statement of one's own difficulty in comprehending the tragedy, and have nothing to do with the girl or her family.  That being the case, all the tears and flowers and sadness will be of no help to the family.  I'm not suggesting that people try to curb their natural behaviour.... if you feel sad, then crying is natural, but there's no need to make it public.  Genuine support is one thing... maudlin self-pity is another. 

--the value judgments embedded in the "missing white woman syndrome".  The implication is that some people are worthy human beings, others are trash.  The whiter, wealthier, better looking and younger you are, the more you should be protected and cried over.  The ones who are marching to protest are probably on the anti racial discrimination marches the following week.... just to make it a full blown hypocrisy.



Thank god you and I don't have to deal with this ourselves.  That's all that needed to be said.


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## Julia (5 October 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> You probably think I'm saying these things just to be cruel and insensitive.
> 
> There's three major things wrong with the huge public reaction:
> 
> ...



+1.


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## MrBurns (5 October 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> You probably think I'm saying these things just to be cruel and insensitive.
> 
> There's three major things wrong with the huge public reaction:
> 
> ...






I think you are far too analytics, lay back ....chill.......

I am passionate about things but never let it interfere with my real life.


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## Tink (6 October 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> I assume you and the others on here will be attending?




I think thats rude of you GB to even ask that question. You know what they say about assuming?

Marching for violence against women, white ribbons etc has been here long before Jill passed away, taking it to the next level when something like this happens was what it was about.

Seems you rather they didnt have these things, white ribbons, pink ribbons for cancer etc


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## Julia (6 October 2012)

So much for the private funeral.  Close-up in today's paper of the grieving family at the funeral.


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## MrBurns (6 October 2012)

Julia said:


> So much for the private funeral.  Close-up in today's paper of the grieving family at the funeral.




The media are devoid of morals and taste, but we know that dont we.

1000 turned out in her hometown in Ireland, this whole thing was a spontaneous outpouring of humanity, it should be appreciated and for what it is.

I was in awe, as you all know.

If she'd been killed in a car accident we wouldnt have even noticed.


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## Logique (7 October 2012)

Not much I can add, it's mostly been said. Sympathies to the family.

The prison system has a way of dealing with this kind of offender, who'll probably need to be in isolation for his own safety. I understand the privacy argument raised by opponents of increased CCTV, but realistically we've got to embrace modern day methods now.


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## MrBurns (8 October 2012)

Good one Tony - 



> Abbott promises $50m for security cameras
> 
> Federal Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says a Coalition government will spend $50 million installing CCTV cameras if it wins office.
> 
> ...




http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-08/coalition-promises-2450m-for-security-cameras/4300642


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## Knobby22 (8 October 2012)

I agree, good one Tony. Costed as well. 
Sure it is on the back of a public outcry but still a good thing to do.


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## Tink (8 October 2012)

Hear Hear Mr Burns, well done Tony.

Ted Baillieu is doing the same..
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25477&page=3&p=731343#post731343


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## DB008 (12 October 2012)

Media may now show Adrian Bayley's face

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/media/media-may-now-show-adrian-bayleys-face/story-e6frg996-1226494130656


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## Bushman (12 October 2012)

Shouldn't this thread be closed down now re yesterdays' court ruling? 

Question for the mods ...


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## McLovin (12 October 2012)

Bushman said:


> Shouldn't this thread be closed down now re yesterdays' court ruling?
> 
> Question for the mods ...




Any prejudicial posts should be removed. Something like post #16 probably breaches the suppression order. If it was my forum, I'd err on the side of caution and delete the thread. IANAL.


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## MrBurns (12 October 2012)

McLovin said:


> Any prejudicial posts should be removed. Something like post #16 probably breaches the suppression order. If it was my forum, I'd err on the side of caution and delete the thread. IANAL.




Yes, I dont know how the courts will enforce this but if I were the mods here I would comply just in case.

Lots of luck with them controlling the rest of social media though.


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## McLovin (12 October 2012)

MrBurns said:


> Yes, I dont know how the courts will enforce this but if I were the mods here I would comply just in case.
> 
> Lots of luck with them controlling the rest of social media though.




I'd say it's more likely the defence will use the comments made on social media to argue that their client has lost the presumption of innocence and cannot have a fair trial. They will cite specific examples and it will then be up to the court to pursue those individuals for contempt. Of course if he pleads guilty it will be a moot point because at sentencing those prejudicial statements are fair game.


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## MrBurns (12 October 2012)

McLovin said:


> I'd say it's more likely the defence will use the comments made on social media to argue that their client has lost the presumption of innocence and cannot have a fair trial. They will cite specific examples and it will then be up to the court to pursue those individuals for contempt. Of course if he pleads guilty it will be a moot point because at sentencing those prejudicial statements are fair game.




I think he's already confessed.
But yes anything can happen at trial time.


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## McLovin (12 October 2012)

MrBurns said:


> I think he's already confessed.
> But yes anything can happen at trial time.




Yes, he's confessed but that isn't the same as pleading guilty.


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## Tink (12 October 2012)

We havent said much in here really
Its been mainly about the media attention and CCTV


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## MrBurns (12 October 2012)

McLovin said:


> Yes, he's confessed but that isn't the same as pleading guilty.




Correct.......


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## awg (12 October 2012)

It is my understanding that a high percentage of juries, especially for long trials, are made up, basically, of pensioners.

Many persons in this age group are not active participants in Facebook and other social media.

I would have thought that the jury discovery process could relativly easily reduce the prospect of a bunch of social media junkies deciding his fate.

One thing I see 0% prospect, would be they say "you cant get a fair trial" so we are going to let you go.
He might just have to wait around a bit (on remand) till he gets his go


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## MrBurns (12 October 2012)

The Law will have to adapt, immediately, they cannot control social media, full stop.


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## McLovin (12 October 2012)

MrBurns said:


> The Law will have to adapt, immediately, they cannot control social media, full stop.




They can to a certain degree. And most people will follow the law rather than deliberately break it. At the moment though, the majority of the public is probably unaware of what can and can't be said in order to avoid prejudicing someone's trial. Also, remember that this crime has been big news in Melbourne but in other parts of Australia, and possibly even Victoria, most people have not been following it closely on Facebook etc. Her remembrance page on FB only had 44,000 "Likes", so it's highly unlikely that an impartial jury could not be found, IMO.


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## MrBurns (12 October 2012)

McLovin said:


> They can to a certain degree. And most people will follow the law rather than deliberately break it. At the moment though, the majority of the public is probably unaware of what can and can't be said in order to avoid prejudicing someone's trial. Also, remember that this crime has been big news in Melbourne but in other parts of Australia, and possibly even Victoria, most people have not been following it closely on Facebook etc. Her remembrance page on FB only had 44,000 "Likes", so it's highly unlikely that an impartial jury could not be found, IMO.




There's plenty of cases where an independant jury would be hard to find, any high profile case would be hard but in this instance the defence will have a field day, at great expense to the State as it will drag on forever.


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## Miss Hale (12 October 2012)

awg said:


> It is my understanding that a high percentage of juries, especially for long trials, are made up, basically, of pensioners.
> 
> Many persons in this age group are not active participants in Facebook and other social media.




I'm signing up for Facebook now if it will get me out of jury duty - I've been called up four times already!

It is going to be hard though now to keep information about defendents out of general circulation.


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## DB008 (18 January 2013)

**Update on this case**


Accused Jill Meagher killer and rapist Adrian Ernest Bayley will fight charges



> MORE REPORTS: The man accused of the rape and murder of Jill Meagher - in a case that shocked Melbourne - will contest the charges.
> 
> Adrian Ernest Bayley, 41, appeared in Melbourne Magistrates' Court via video link for a short committal mention at noon today, where it was confirmed a two-day committal was listed for March 12 and 13.
> 
> ...


----------

