# Aussie Beach Louts - time for change



## RichKid (10 December 2005)

This is just silly dribble, been on the front pages recently, petty thugs trying to justify their failing by blaming others. I'm sorry to hear it's been part of our 'culture' for so long, time it ended imo, violent hooligans of this kind should not be encouraged, even if framed within Aussie icons like our flag, the beach, and yes, beer. http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/beach-etiquette--shirestyle/2005/12/09/1134086806862.html

There are probably plenty of young people who see the image and think it's cool, some will try to follow suit by 'growing up' to be one of the '(Marou)Bra boys' or something silly like that.


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## websman (10 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

Can't we all just get along???


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## brerwallabi (10 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				RichKid said:
			
		

> This is just silly dribble, been on the front pages recently, petty thugs trying to justify their failing by blaming others. I'm sorry to hear it's been part of our 'culture' for so long, time it ended imo, violent hooligans of this kind should not be encouraged, even if framed within Aussie icons like our flag, the beach, and yes, beer.




Rich, I don't know where you from, but I am 15 minutes away from Cronulla beach which is the spot that is creating a lot of emotion right now. This is really not a gang thing in my opinion, it is much much more now and could be the start of something far more serious - it is more like racial hatred. Croat and Serb, Palestinian and Israeli, White Aussie surfer boy - lebanese low lifes. There are a considerable number of middle easterns in Sydney and unfortunatly there are probably a few hundred maybe a few more absolute low lifes amongst them. What is happening in Cronulla is totally unacceptable and there are a number of lowlifes that go to this beach and surrounding areas not to enjoy the benefits of the surf and sand but to spit in front of you as you walk by, to make lewd suggestive sexual comments towards your teenage daughters, to antagonise and intimate as many people as they possibly can where they outnumber them, to beat up young kids enjoying the beach and the area. It sounds like I am getting emotional, I guess I may be as I regard it as my beach and one of my favourite spots. The area here at Cronulla is for everyone but there is an element that visits which as no respect for anything thats why our prisons are filling up with these pack rapists, gunmen, drug peddlers and cold blooded killers.


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## Lyehopper (11 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

Boys will be boys.... let em brawl mate.  :twak:


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## websman (11 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				Lyehopper said:
			
		

> Boys will be boys.... let em brawl mate.  :twak:




I say that Lye and me should come over there and whip their a$$!


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## sam76 (11 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				brerwallabi said:
			
		

> Rich, I don't know where you from, but I am 15 minutes away from Cronulla beach which is the spot that is creating a lot of emotion right now. This is really not a gang thing in my opinion, it is much much more now and could be the start of something far more serious - it is more like racial hatred. Croat and Serb, Palestinian and Israeli, White Aussie surfer boy - lebanese low lifes. There are a considerable number of middle easterns in Sydney and unfortunatly there are probably a few hundred maybe a few more absolute low lifes amongst them. What is happening in Cronulla is totally unacceptable and there are a number of lowlifes that go to this beach and surrounding areas not to enjoy the benefits of the surf and sand but to spit in front of you as you walk by, to make lewd suggestive sexual comments towards your teenage daughters, to antagonise and intimate as many people as they possibly can where they outnumber them, to beat up young kids enjoying the beach and the area. It sounds like I am getting emotional, I guess I may be as I regard it as my beach and one of my favourite spots. The area here at Cronulla is for everyone but there is an element that visits which as no respect for anything thats why our prisons are filling up with these pack rapists, gunmen, drug peddlers and cold blooded killers.





Looks like it came to a head today.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/violence-flares-at-cronulla/2005/12/11/1134235935949.html

Apparently it began when men of middle-eastern appearence bashed two life guards at the beach.


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## Porper (11 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				sam76 said:
			
		

> Looks like it came to a head today.
> 
> http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/violence-flares-at-cronulla/2005/12/11/1134235935949.html
> 
> Apparently it began when men of middle-eastern appearence bashed two life guards at the beach.




Typical of the youth of today I am afraid.

Do gooders have caused all this lack of discipline by getting all these bull*hit laws passed not allowing physical punishment.

I didn't have a problem getting the slipper or the cane at school, fair cop, and it bloody well hurt so you made sure you didn't get caught next time, or better still it stopped you doing it.This was only 20 years ago, not a hundred before the do gooders come out moaning.

Let's get tough, send in the Ghurkers, let these cowardly thugs have a go at them, let's see what happens then :badass:

There should be zero tolerance with these yobs, let's get rid of them.

yes, yes I know some of them have had hard upbringings, tough lives and they are lovely boys really, blah, blah, blah.

Lets do this :shoot:, and this :bigun2:

Anyway now that's off my chest, hope Gold carries on it's surge in the morning.:screwy:


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## pete152 (11 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				Porper said:
			
		

> Typical of the youth of today I am afraid.
> 
> Do gooders have caused all this lack of discipline by getting all these bull*hit laws passed not allowing physical punishment.
> 
> ...





 Good on you , mate!!
I have not heard a truer word said. It has taken a while but all the do-gooders stopping people take responsibility for their own actions has come home to roost.

i am with you all the way!
Cheers,
Peter


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## websman (12 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				pete152 said:
			
		

> Good on you , mate!!
> I have not heard a truer word said. It has taken a while but all the do-gooders stopping people take responsibility for their own actions has come home to roost.
> 
> i am with you all the way!
> ...




Now y'all are talking!  Beat the crap out of the thugs and they'll think twice before they try it again.  There's nothing like a little good old fashion justice.


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## tech/a (12 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

One day there WILL be a terrorist attack.

On that day and not long after that day, chances are that yesterday will look like a combined picnic.

We live in Australia.
As far as I'm concerned what happens elsewhere is their issues, dont bring them to your or my home.
We should be on the same page particularly with terrorism.
If you live in Australia and can't be an Aussie you shouldnt be here.


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## dutchie (12 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

Burning of the Australian Flag??? 

Why would you want to live in a country if you hated it so much that you burnt its flag?? - can't understand that at all.


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## websman (12 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				dutchie said:
			
		

> Burning of the Australian Flag???
> 
> Why would you want to live in a country if you hated it so much that you burnt its flag?? - can't understand that at all.




If they don't like the Australian flag, let them go back and live in the piece of $#!t third world country they came from.  I'm an American and I love the Australian flag as much as I do my own.  

It's good to see that you guys are proud of your country.  That's why I love you Aussies so much.  We have a lot in common.  :aus:


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## Rafa (12 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

agree with most of the comment...
only problem with people taking law into their own hands is that innocent by standers get hurt... (i.e. the girl who had her viel ripped off and chased... thats not on.... regardless of what your personaly opinion is on the garment, people are free to wear (or not wear) what they like...)


All this is happening because of the laws being too soft, and people feeling there is no help from the authorities... (not the police, but the courts!!!)


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## Julia (12 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				Rafa said:
			
		

> agree with most of the comment...
> only problem with people taking law into their own hands is that innocent by standers get hurt... (i.e. the girl who had her viel ripped off and chased... thats not on.... regardless of what your personaly opinion is on the garment, people are free to wear (or not wear) what they like...)
> 
> 
> All this is happening because of the Laws being too soft, and people feel there is no help from the authrities... (not the police, but the courts!!!)




Agree 100% Rafa.

Julia


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## tech/a (12 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				Rafa said:
			
		

> All this is happening because of the laws being too soft, and people feeling there is no help from the authorities... (not the police, but the courts!!!)




Yep.

400g of heroin-----Death.
100s Fishermen Poaching our waters for years and they fight off our Coastguard with a few sharp sticks.
Why because we have big girls blouses making our law courts like the laughing stock they are ---in all areas.

Anger management for terrorists----------Yeh right and we will control terrorists with the latest weapon---side splitting laughter!!

Fanatics and anger management---hahahaha.


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## Rafa (12 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

Thats right...

I am not in favour of the death penalty... (tho some times my resolve is severely tested...) but we need the courts (and politicians) to back up their words by passing tougher laws... otherwise its all going to go to crap!

PS: I didn't know whether to laugh or cry at the 60 minutes report on the fisherman up north... far out... what a joke!!!


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## pete152 (12 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				tech/a said:
			
		

> Yep.
> 
> 400g of heroin-----Death.
> 100s Fishermen Poaching our waters for years and they fight off our Coastguard with a few sharp sticks.
> ...




In total agreement with you.
Peter


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## Smurf1976 (12 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				Rafa said:
			
		

> thats right...
> 
> i am not in favour of the death penalty... (tho some times my resolve is severely tested...) but we need the courts (and politicians) to back up their words by passing tougher laws... otherwise its all going to go to crap!



Slightly off topic but this general lack of law and order is really starting to get to me. 

My own property gets trashed by vandals and the police suggest that I shouldn't have things that are prone to vandalism in the first place. No mention of law enforcement.

I caught the offenders in the act and, at private expense and some degree of personal risk, photographed (with film so it can't be a doctored image) them in the act and so on. I phoned the police and requested assistance which was denied "because we're flat out". A call to a commercial radio station newsroom later confirmed no police reports of major problems overnight. I waited over an hour until the vandals finished their trail of destruction and still no police. 

This was about 250 metres from a police station in the main street of a town which is just 15 minutes (at the posted speed limit on a good road) from another 24 hour police station. I'm not impressed to say the least. Damn furious in fact because last week I was once again vandalised.

I know it's not in the same league as riots but it's law enforcement nonetheless. It's all a consequence of the same system which punishes victims rather than criminals.


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## Lyehopper (12 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				Rafa said:
			
		

> thats right...
> 
> i am not in favour of the death penalty... (tho some times my resolve is severely tested...) but we need the courts (and politicians) to back up their words by passing tougher laws... otherwise its all going to go to crap!



WHY?  what's wrong with the death penality?  "It".... has already gone to crap dude!.... hell fire!!! "they've" taken your guns away.... "They've" open the door for Islamic terrorists.... and you just want "THEM" to pass more stinkin laws!  Just wait till you good fellas experience your very own 9-11.... TAKE BACK YOUR BLOODY COUNTRY...... NOW!!!! :sword:


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## wayneL (12 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				Smurf1976 said:
			
		

> Slightly off topic but this general lack of law and order is really starting to get to me.
> 
> My own property gets trashed by vandals and the police suggest that I shouldn't have things that are prone to vandalism in the first place. No mention of law enforcement.
> 
> ...





WTF????

I'm not surprised at the police response, but paradoxically, I still can't believe it!

I have a copper who lives across the road from me. He says the culture sucks, nobody want's to go out the the station, it's just a bludge.

We have 100 coppers here in a town of ~30,000, yet you RARELY ever see them.

Meanwhile the crims run rampant. :swear: 

Somethings wrong folks.


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## pete152 (12 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				Lyehopper said:
			
		

> WHY?  what's wrong with the death penality?  "It".... has already gone to crap dude!.... hell fire!!! "they've" taken your guns away.... "They've" open the door for Islamic terrorists.... and you just want "THEM" to pass more stinkin laws!  Just wait till you good fellas experience your very own 9-11.... TAKE BACK YOUR BLOODY COUNTRY...... NOW!!!! :sword:




 Nothing wrong with it. At least they will not do the crime again. We as a nation just go along with what ever the government (them) tells us. 

We have to lock our fire arms away so crooks can not get them, but if they do get their hands on them we are charged!! Never mind that some one just BROKE IN TO YOUR HOUSE to get them.

And we make a national hero out of a convicted drug pusher!!!

Peter


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## Milk Man (12 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

Just chuck these little punks in jail, in the same cell as "Bubba" and see how they go without weapons or a gang of their mates. Even better if Bubba has AIDS. "You dont like whitey? Lets see how you like a big ol' black bull queer!" No offence to black dudes- but ive seen quite a few pornos and I figure one of you blokes would cause the most stitches.


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## pete152 (12 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				Milk Man said:
			
		

> but ive seen quite a few pornos




Mate, they are banned in Queensland as well! Good to see the government watching what we watch.
Cheers,
Peter


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## pete152 (12 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

"After a spate of violence on Sydneys beaches, Prime Miniture John Coward has declared a ban on beach front property. 
Under new laws, Houses with a driveway shorter than 10 m will be illegal as they may be a concealable residence, also, houses with a greater land area than 38sq will be outlawed "Their is no need for anyone to own big beach front properties" said the Prime Miniture "No-one needs a house bigger than the police". 
Following the recent violent attacks on lifesavers and beach goers by lawless thugs, Mr Coward said, "It is obvious that Beach front suburbs cause crime, a buyback is the only way to make Australia safer". 
When questioned at length by a few journalists capable of independant thought and analysis, The Prime Miniture said he did not see it as a useless move, aimed at placating the democrats and greens allied communist party, but pointed to his huge success with the gun buy back. After all, crime has dropped to almost non existent levels following the Gubbermints expensive gun buy backs and it is an obvious link that guns and beach front property are sole source of crime in Australia. The Prime Miniture also denied any existance of racial tensions, saying he had his head so far up his own arse, he was un-aware of any tensions, and pointed to his loving relationship with the United States President "Dubbya", saying "why cant we all just get along like Dubbya and I". 
The US president was un-available for comment, saying only "I wish he'd stop dropping my name and stalking me." 
Pictures at 10....."


I just got this from a hunting site. Thought some people here may like it.
Cheers,
Peter


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## Bingo (12 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

Whoever wrote this is a real dill. Has no idea of difference between state and federal responsibilities. Political bias with no brains.


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## Julia (12 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

Smurf:

Can't begin to imagine how furious you must feel, and how frustrated.  What else are you supposed to do?

Meantime, re the rioting punks of the weekend:  I don't suppose many of them are employed.  I don't suppose it would occur to many of them to think of getting a job instead of creating hell.  Whilst they wallow in their self indulgent paranoia, the rest of us are probably funding their very existence in the form of unemployment benefits.

Julia


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## websman (12 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

It just made the news here in the U.S.


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## RichKid (13 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

okay folks, I've noticed a bit of unsavoury stuff entering the debates, let's keep it on topic and avoid any race based slants or unsavoury comments unless it's backed up with more than just a generalisation. From the news footage and some reports it appears there are various ethnicities involved so you can't just 'send them back to their country' because they are already in it. Most would have been born here and not all will be unemployed. Besides why deport people because of their race (that's racism), I don't hear calls for people to be sent back to their 'violent' Scottish clan or calls about wild 'Irishmen' with fiery Irish tempers who get drunk and start fights in pubs (now there's a stereotype) to be deported when they've lived here for generations.

This is a complicated issue and the cops obviously aren't sophisticated enough to deal with these complex communities. They always seem to turn out in force once it's out of hand. I feel for locals like Brer who are affected- you shouldn't be treated like that but for vigilantes to take things into their own hands is not on, that's what the authorities are there for, hold them to account, not every member of an ethnic group. But I do agree that prosecutions must go ahead with full force against offenders.

I sympathise with Smurf about lazy cops, some work real hard but others do everything they can to be unprofessional shirkers. I advise you to complain to the Police ombudsman or equivalent in writing, at least then those lazy cops will have to do some of their odious 'paperwork' to respond to the investigation.

Also, in Australia we prefer very much not to kill people, in the US many innocent people are executed, Australia may appear to be like the US in some ways but in many ways we are different, that's one thing we're proud of and one reason why so many people from diverse backgrounds are proud to call it 'home'. We also attempt to take better care of our minorities, although our treatment of some minorities (eg Aboriginal people) is disgraceful- a lot of work to be done there. 

Just my thoughts, let's approach these complex issue with due regard for underlying issues. Fighting violence with violence is not productive- look at Iraq and other countries where might is favoured over peaceful avenues.

btw, websman, how did they report it there? What perspective did they take?


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## doctorj (13 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

I don't have too much more to say about this other than today, for the first time I can recall, I'm embarrased to be an Aussie.

Australia has long been a place where it didn't matter who you were, as long as you were a good bloke or a good sheila, everyone got along fine.  It seems that's changing.


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## Bobby (13 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

What we need is a concurrence of who we let into this land.
Wake up people!
Tell your pollies what you want, they work for you!
Same as the police (remember they have the hard job).

Immigrants that do not wish to become Aussies  - don't come here.


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## mime (13 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

I'm in total support of the group(but not the violence). I'm sick of those lebs that roll around in their cars, playing loud music and causing trouble. I've been hassled a number of times by these ethnics youths. I've done nothing to them, they just want to cause trouble.

They have no manners, their attitude blows and they are intimidating.

I'm not racist. I have a few ethnic friends but I hate the ones think it's cool to cause trouble. I think it's great to see people finally standing up because I know I'm sick of it.


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## clowboy (13 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

So many of these comments sum it up so well.

"ashamed to be an Aussie"

Sad isnt it.


The sad part is that it has had to come to this,  everybody has a breaking point and a point at which they join the "mob" and seek revenge.

The problem is that Mobs don't think they just do.

Smurf, Women at self defence course's are told to yell "FIRE" when being attacked and not "help" as people will come for a fire but not to help someone (fear of getting harmed themselves).

I was also told once that if I ever "needed" the police to call them and say that I have just shot someone who was trying to break into my house, aparently it gets a really good response. (until they get there and find you havent).

Bear in mind that police are often not the source of the problem and are sick of all the red tape crap just as much as us.  I cant imagine pouring yur heart and soul into a case just to see a thief get off on light penalties yet alone a rapist or the likes.

When will society wake up and demand tougher penalties - probally not until a new "form" of government is elected.


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## sam76 (13 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

It's not racism - it's a case of self-preservation.


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## websman (13 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				RichKid said:
			
		

> Also, in Australia we prefer very much not to kill people, in the US many innocent people are executed, Australia may appear to be like the US in some ways but in many ways we are different, that's one thing we're proud of and one reason why so many people from diverse backgrounds are proud to call it 'home'. We also attempt to take better care of our minorities, although our treatment of some minorities (eg Aboriginal people) is disgraceful- a lot of work to be done there.
> 
> Just my thoughts, let's approach these complex issue with due regard for underlying issues. Fighting violence with violence is not productive- look at Iraq and other countries where might is favoured over peaceful avenues.
> 
> btw, websman, how did they report it there? What perspective did they take?




Without trying to stir up a hornets nest, let me say that I am strongly for execution.  Of course what's good for us Americans, may not work for Australia.  I don't consider myself to be violent, but sometimes you have to curb violence with justified force.

It was reported on CNN.  As far as a slant, I didn't see any of that.  just a report.


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## tech/a (13 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				sam76 said:
			
		

> It's not racism - it's a case of self-preservation.




Racism is being used as a protective shield by those who instigate these acts of "terror".
Make no mistake this intimidation has been bought about by those who are now screaming racism. I agree with Sam.

If this isnt insighting Terror what is??
Where are the new laws now? 
And people wonder why we defend ourselves----we have rights as well---seems this is overlooked in the name of Racism---HEY we are a race as well!!----Infact at times being an Aussi feels ethnic in my own country!

The core needs to be taken out of this bad apple now!
The world is watching---both friend and foe.


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## websman (13 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				websman said:
			
		

> Without trying to stir up a hornets nest, let me say that I am strongly for execution.  Of course what's good for us Americans, may not work for Australia.  I don't consider myself to be violent, but sometimes you have to curb violence with justified force.
> 
> It was reported on CNN.  As far as a slant, I didn't see any of that.  just a report.




What I was stating here was my personal opinion and nothing more.

I hope and pray that the violence ends.


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## Rafa (13 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

i think its important to realise that if the laws are a lot stronger... then the trouble makers will go behind bars, and have less of a chance of causing more trouble, and tarnishing the name of the whole community they are from...

this goes for both the lebanese and the australians involved in the riots on sunday.

it all comes down to the failure of successive govt's and the whole softly softly approach to crime prevention, raising kids, etc

all they succeed in doing is ligitamising taking the law into their own hands, and ligitamising extremist groups (be it neo Nazi's or Al Qaeda terrorist groups)

(see this article in The Australian)
David King
December 13, 2005 
EXTREMIST groups accused of links to neo-Nazis have admitted mobilising more than 100 people to attend the riots in Cronulla.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17549652%5E601,00.html

Jim Saleam, the NSW secretary of ultra-nationalist group Australia First, said his members had recruited up to 120 people for the rally but denied they were involved in violence. 

NSW Police Minister Carl Scully confirmed that extremists had taken part in the riots. 

Skinheads wearing boots, braces and neo-Nazi emblems were among the mob of 5000.  Three far-right organisations -- Australia First, The Patriotic Youth League and the Newcastle-based Blood and Honour -- handed out racist pamphlets. All three are considered to have neo-Nazi links. 

Anti-race hate campaigner Matt Henderson-Hau, who runs the Fightdemback.org website, said he had information that only one of the skinheads at the rally came from within the Sutherland Shire. 
"The rest came from the Central Coast, Newcastle and other parts of Sydney," he said. 

Patriotic Youth League spokesman Luke Connors confirmed that his group attended the riot and had handed out anti-migration literature. 
"There was only a few people there, mostly girls with their boyfriends, handing out a few leaflets with 'Aussies fighting back' on them," he said. 
"It wasn't a full-on operation, we didn't plan a full-on operation. Australia First did, not us." 

Mr Henderson-Hau said neo-Nazis had manipulated the crowd at Cronulla. 
"If you remove the Nazis from the equation, you will go a long way to dousing the flames and hopefully some cool heads will emerge on both sides," said Mr Henderson-Hau.


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## Bobby (13 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				tech/a said:
			
		

> Racism is being used as a protective shield by those who instigate these acts of "terror".
> Make no mistake this intimidation has been bought about by those who are now screaming racism. I agree with Sam.
> 
> If this isnt insighting Terror what is??
> ...




Spot on Tech !!


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## mime (13 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

Did anyone watch ACA tonight?? Young Lebs who roll around in cars who are itching to intimidate and cause conflict. They have no respect for this country even though they enjoy living here. It's easy to judge people of Sydney as raciest and discraseful but when you have to put up with these groups often and you see on the news these gangs causing assults, gang rapes, stabbings and shootings you will feel animosity towards them.

Finally the roits has put enough focus on the issue to make a change. 

I'd love to see these trouble makes deported or something. I know not all lebanese are bad but their own community must bear the majority of the responsiblity for their youths actions and teach them that if they want to live in our country they must respect our laws.


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## kerosam (13 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

i am one very pissed off person after this riot thingy!

get these trouble makers (the chiefs), give them a public flogging, embarass them in the following day's national papers by having their photos on the front page!

to those 'lebanese & wogs' (no racist pun intended)- you are a bloody disgrace to all immigrants. brainless ********!

to those 'aussies' involved- you are a total disgrace to the country!


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## tech/a (13 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

Now------Dont hold back Kerosam.


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## phoenixrising (13 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

So my take on this as a Sydneysider.

This has been brewing for years, it has been said relationships is about a whole lot of little things that add up over time to positive or negative outcomes.

Some of the small things that have impacted me are ( by all races but can be more by "new" people because of lack of knowledge of how our system works)

* Someone takes my allocated parking spot cause they feel like it

* The rubbish gets put in the wrong bins repeatedly

* I'm next in line but wrong background so another gets served

* A work contract means thats only the basics, we want a whole lot more     from you

And on and on the list goes, I wont bore you, just making a point
So the frustration starts to simmer

My work takes me occasionally to Bankstown area of Sydney. (now Muslim heartland) A young kid decided to pelt me with rocks, the only way I got him to stop was by screaming at the top of my voice that " I'd come and hang him by the ----ing b--ls from a tree if he didn't stop"  That worked.
More frustration

Last year the day after the NRL grand final between the Bulldogs (Bankstown area) and the Roosters (Bondi area) I was at Bondi beach and there was car load after carload of bulldogs youth driving around hurling abuse at the perceived losers, looking for trouble, it didn't happen that day but was very intimidating.
The frustration bulds

So where to, violence is not the answer, how to get peolple to respect ea other again and to work towards building a great country, which we are already.

I think John Howards response was pathetic, it's a law and order issue, of course it is but treating the symptoms will have little impact, what are the real causes to be addressed.

I wish I had some answers.


----------



## RichKid (13 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

Kerosam,
It's a shame you distinguish between people who behave the same on the basis of race. If they are acting like criminals then why point to their ethnicity in one instance and not in the other, why have a strong insult for one lot and a milder one for others? Purely based on racial origin? Appears to be. You probably don't intend it but that's how it has turned out in your post, sometimes we aren't aware of out prejudices.

We can't resolve these issues unless we hold these people to account for the right reasons, this means all the offenders, regardless of their racial origin, from skinheads to those who have just decided to join a gang or mob because of the 'euphoria'.

See this article for a possible positive, the re-introduction of alcohol bans and curfews, it also refers to how people behave in crowds (all people, not just some races): http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/abandoned-drink-laws-rushed-back/2005/12/12/1134236005938.html It suggest that alcohol is a contributing factor (as opposed to racial origin). There are plenty of non-enthic gangs who go around terrorising people.


----------



## Bloveld (13 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				websman said:
			
		

> Without trying to stir up a hornets nest, let me say that I am strongly for execution.  Of course what's good for us Americans, may not work for Australia.  I don't consider myself to be violent, but sometimes you have to curb violence with justified force.
> 
> It was reported on CNN.  As far as a slant, I didn't see any of that.  just a report.







And what a wonderful peaceful society you have there.


----------



## RichKid (13 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				mime said:
			
		

> I'm in total support of the group(but not the violence). I'm sick of those lebs that roll around in their cars, playing loud music and causing trouble. I've been hassled a number of times by these ethnics youths. I've done nothing to them, they just want to cause trouble.
> 
> They have no manners, their attitude blows and they are intimidating.
> 
> I'm not racist. I have a few ethnic friends but I hate the ones think it's cool to cause trouble. I think it's great to see people finally standing up because I know I'm sick of it.




I agree with you wholeheartedly about those people who are a disgrace to their communities, whether it be Australian or Lebanese or Italian or whatever group it is. They should be dealt with through proper legal and political processes, this is where the local authorities have failed miserably, now it's come to ahead and people are trying to simplify it into an 'Us vs them' or 'Aussies vs Lebanese' type 'gang' scenario. If there are gangs they should be dealt with, no point trying to create race riots everywhere, this is not a crusade. People who are texting people and inciting violence should be prosecuted, we have the technology to track it might as well use it, especially with Nazi groups who are universally abhorred.

If police and local councils had been listening and observing behaviour within the community they would have done something to prevent this years ago, instead we allow people to be abused and kicked around and when they react it becomes one big mess. 

Phoenexrising makes an excellent point, when we expect strong leaders to  step in John Howard just tries to pander to public opinion saying we're all good, blah blah blah- but the situation on the ground is far different. About time they actually looked at fixing things, the new alcohol laws (if they are passed) will be a great start; perhaps more pro-active policing of hoons in the suburbs too.  I also find it disturbing to see young males going around in groups trying to show their 'manhood' be picking on weaker people who have nothing whatsoever to do with this violence. Why are we spending so much money on the cops if they aren't able to cope with it? Maybe they're so pre-occupied with their internal corruption they can't do their job properly.

Some of the posters here have responded with strong, violent solutions but if you know anything about human nature the people who feel opressed will use even more violence and then it gets worse. This is a time for strong leadeship and pro-active thinking, no point in going back to base instincts like 'if they hit us we'll hit em harder' or they should just go away to wherever they came from. These problems aren't that easy to solve. 

The governments current anti-terrorist attitude is also misdirecting anger at innocent people associated with Islam or similar minority groups. If this type of violence continues you will see real 'home-grown' terrorists and no matter how good you think you may be with a firearm or a clenched fist you wont be able to deal with it, as the US is finding in Iraq, we don't want to present violence as the solution as that's what terrorists do. Non-violence is a better goal, it is better to make all people feel safe than unsafe; telling them they don't belong is not going to help but applying the laws equally and swiftly to all will. Some will be locked up for years, but I'm sure there are many who can be rehabilitated so let's hope and pray things improve and avoid this boyish chatter about widening the brawling by encouraging irresponsible comments about how it's good to bash up people who 'deserve' it or had it coming.


----------



## sam76 (13 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

how's that saying go?

"Bad things happen when good people do nothing"

Perhaps Samuel Huntington was right (the clash of civilisations)

Good people (and pollies) want to do something about this problem but hold back for fear of being branded a racist/extremest/Hansonist or not politically correct. 

This issue needs authority imposed NOW.

And again everyone holds back to see what public opinion will be.

Who controls public opinion??

Yep, you guessed it - the media.

IThese guys are playing a big part in fueling this issue.

I'm suprised no one has asked Pauline for her take yet.


----------



## RichKid (13 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				sam76 said:
			
		

> how's that saying go?
> 
> "Bad things happen when good people do nothing"
> 
> ...




Yes, very good points, if only we had leaders who weren't opportunists. Some of the media articles have an air of childish excitement, sounds like they're trying to create a frenzy. No wonder journos have such a poor reputation, they just want to sell a nice, juicy story, doesn't matter if they fan the flames. Also can't believe the pollies are waiting til Thursday to meet and I don't think greater police powers alone will help, especially if they just target one or two groups. They need to work with the community, schools and leaders of various backgrounds to solve this big problem.

Some perspectives, note the heartfelt views at the end and the plight of those who have done nothing wrong: http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/violence-heats-up-online-forums/2005/12/13/1134236041699.html


----------



## Dan_ (13 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

All of this is pretty bad and honestly I'm ashamed,

But I'm more ashamed of the media....something serious action needs to be taken against the media. no wonder I don't barely watch TV anymore, let alone look at the trashy papers


----------



## Lyehopper (13 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

Rich.... What's you opinion of this news story? 

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/3521149.html

I say "SPOT ON" Arnold!  This execution took place in California one of the most "left wing" states in the union.....  In "conservative" Flordia (Webs' state) and Virginia (My State) and Texas (W's state) we just "fry em" left and freakin right.... and with very little media attention.

By-the-way fellas.... I've never had any gang of punk thugs throw rocks or insults at me (not that gangs and punks don't exist here, they indeed DO). 

Down here the thugs can simply look at my truck (and the red on my neck) and run a quick profile on me.... They ain't stupid!  They know that I'm (most likely) armed.... they don't even stare in my direction as I make them very uncomfortable just being there.....  God created all men.... "Sam Colt" made them freakin equal.... or in my case "Para-Ordinance".


----------



## Julia (14 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				Lyehopper said:
			
		

> Rich.... What's you opinion of this news story?
> 
> http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/3521149.html
> 
> ...




Lyehopper:

Have to say I'm relieved to know you and your truck are safely tucked away in America which is a blessedly long way from here.

Julia


----------



## Kauri (14 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

:aus: 

   Bring back National Service...


----------



## Milk Man (14 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				Julia said:
			
		

> Lyehopper:
> 
> Have to say I'm relieved to know you and your truck are safely tucked away in America which is a blessedly long way from here.
> 
> Julia




Theres a town in the states where nearly everyone carries a gun on their hip. Can you guess what the crime rate is? If you live in Sydney im sure youd be a hell of a lot safer being "closer" to such an environment instead of trying to "talk" to someone while they are bashing you. Why not call the police, im suuuuure theyll come. If everyone carries a gun then no one is game to put a foot out of line. Of course there are always people that are too scared to take responsibility for their own safety.


----------



## websman (14 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				Lyehopper said:
			
		

> Rich.... What's you opinion of this news story?
> 
> http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/3521149.html
> 
> ...




Well said Lye.  Tookie should have died 24 years ago.


----------



## websman (14 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				Julia said:
			
		

> Lyehopper:
> 
> Have to say I'm relieved to know you and your truck are safely tucked away in America which is a blessedly long way from here.
> 
> Julia





I'm glad you're here with me Lye.  It's good to know that I have neighbors that aren't afraid to defend themselves.  I don't go around threatning anybody, but will use a firearm to defend myself.


----------



## Milk Man (14 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

It'd be interesting to see where gun crimes are the highest. Either where people are too wimpy to use them (yankee) or where people love them (confederate), in general that is. Still looking for that town where most everyone carries a gun; they seem to have it sussed.

Sorry its a bit off topic, but its in the interest of seeing which methods are effective in preventing violent crime.


----------



## tech/a (14 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

Could be "Williams." The town
When I was there Everyone looked straight out of Roy Rogers.
Very nice VERY conservative---religious people.
Pickups with Gun Racks in the back window--Nice guns too.
Holsters guns ammo and boots---we felt very out of it.

Felt safe though mainly because guns were in holsters and the back of pickups.


----------



## Milk Man (14 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

Thanks tech, I found it though.
The name of the town is Kennesaw, Georgia. It is actually the law (they call it an ordinance) for a member of each household to own a firearm and ammunition. The crime rate is extremely low.


----------



## Rafa (14 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

its a crying shame if everyone has to carry guns around to feel safe...

i'd rather the guns were left in the hands of the police, and they were backed up by laws and competent politicians...

listening to lemma and howard and beazley on the TV, its no surprise that the it has come down to this... they have done nothing to promote unity, instead have preffered populist politics... and show fake leadership by simply pandering to popular public opinion.

and the media have a lot to answer for too with their sensationalist take on the whole thing... 

richkid spoke a lot of sense... focus on the the prepretators of the violence..
1. the lebanese gangs
2. the neo nazi organisers of the event on sunday

lets put some decent laws in place to get the trouble makers of the street in into JAIL! ( i heard there were 12 arrests on the weekend and most were back out the street within an hour, on BAIL!!!... what a joke!!!)


----------



## doctorj (14 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				Milk Man said:
			
		

> Theres a town in the states where nearly everyone carries a gun on their hip. Can you guess what the crime rate is? If you live in Sydney im sure youd be a hell of a lot safer being "closer" to such an environment instead of trying to "talk" to someone while they are bashing you. Why not call the police, im suuuuure theyll come. If everyone carries a gun then no one is game to put a foot out of line. Of course there are always people that are too scared to take responsibility for their own safety.




I don't think everyone carrying guns is much of a deterrent.  Carrying a gun doesn't help you a whole lot when the other chap shoots or draws first.  For this reason I don't think carrying guns stops good people from falling victim to the bad ones.

What carrying guns does do is put within reach an easily used, ranged, deadly weapon.  Without a gun, someone might pick up a knife/chair/pool cue in a fit of anger, but with a gun, they get a gun.  Even if they use a knife/chair/pool cue it is possible to fight off and come out ok, when they draw a gun, they either pull the trigger or not.  That'd be OK if we were all Neo, but we're not.


----------



## sam76 (14 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				websman said:
			
		

> I'm glad you're here with me Lye.  It's good to know that I have neighbors that aren't afraid to defend themselves.  I don't go around threatning anybody, but will use a firearm to defend myself.




I really don't think guns are the answer.


----------



## ghotib (14 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

I don't want to comment on all this yet, just lay out a few thoughts. 

1.  Last night I conducted a choir in a citizenship ceremony conducted 10 minutes from a major Lebanese population centre. 120 people made a pledge and deliberately became Australian. It was a very moving ceremony (as they usually are). I couldn't definitely identify the race or previous nationality of any of these people by sight. I did identify several women as Muslim because they were wearing the hijab, but I'm pretty sure they weren't all from the same continent, let alone country. Race is not the same as religion is not the same as ethnicity is not the same as nationality. 

2.  This local government area is home to over 130 ethnic groups. Most of the people, most of the time, get along pretty well. When we don't, the reasons are most often personal and domestic:  family disputes, arguments over fences.  

3.  There are hoons around, and they do tend to travel in packs. I accept that some of the packs are predominantly Lebanese. I don't accept that a Lebanese hoon pack is any better or worse than any other hoon pack. They're all young men with a whole lot more hormones than sense and about as much social and self awareness as a pack of young male chimpanzees, they're all intimidating, and nearly all of them will grow out of it eventually. Unless some adult hoon sends them off to war. 

4.  Very, very few people in today's world are "pure" in race.  People marry people across every kind of boundary. People also move across every kind of boundary. In most countries (and I think in ALL developed countries) a large proportion of the population is migrant or the children of migrants. 

5.  Here's a piece from today's Australian. It's funny; I think it's also pretty accurate: 

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17563462%5E601,00.html

Cheers,

Ghoti


----------



## Lyehopper (14 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				Julia said:
			
		

> Lyehopper:
> 
> Have to say I'm relieved to know you and your truck are safely tucked away in America which is a blessedly long way from here.
> 
> Julia



Me too Julia, I thank God every day that I live here!... But hey Lady... you'd have "no worry's" as long you didn't screw around with me or my family or my property... 

By-the-way Ms. Julia.... My lovely wife of 22 years (Mrs. Lyehopper) is a bloody fair shot with her "stainless 38 hammerless lady-smith" too! And very fast!... Hate to see the gaping, meaty hole through the poor fella's chest cavity who ever attempts to rape her....  

Ms. politically correct liberal Julia?.... What will you do when you discover some buck naked ski-masked intruder in the shadows of your lovely home some dark and lonely evening?.... Think about it.... cause it bloody well happens!

~Lye


----------



## websman (14 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				sam76 said:
			
		

> I really don't think guns are the answer.




It's works very well for us...


----------



## RichKid (14 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

Okay boys, that's enough of the gun stuff, back to topic and let's not get too personal or patronising here.

This video of interviews shows some of the real people affected by the violence.
http://media.smh.com.au/?rid=17670&...mh&t=43CLEK&player=wm6&rate=1980&flash=0&ie=0
Also, if violence and executions are what makes American work the way it does then I really don't want to see it here or we'll become like the States. I still think we have a much better society here in Australia than you do in the States, I'd like to see us improve not deteriorate.


----------



## websman (14 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				RichKid said:
			
		

> Okay boys, that's enough of the gun stuff, back to topic and let's not get too personal or patronising here.




Sorry rich.

My final word on all of this is that I hope The violence on the beach stops.

Best wishes...


----------



## RichKid (14 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				ghotib said:
			
		

> I don't want to comment on all this yet, just lay out a few thoughts.....




Great post Ghoti, I think it's important that people voice their opinions (and even anger) responsibly rather than holding it in or releasing it inappropriately through violence when they can't hold it in anymore.

It's important, with issues like this, for people to join the debate, staying quiet is not always going to solve it, especially if you have something constructive to add and you mean well. It's important that more moderates and compassionate people take part in these debates or it becomes one sided and people believe that that is what is acceptable. 

There is no point in lamenting once the despots take over the world, we need to speak up now. Germany is still castigated for allowing the Nazi's to rule as they did, you can't blame it all on Hitler, he had millions of people behind him. If politicians take their cue from us then we must send them a strong message that we want them to do more for us- before it's too late. The community delegations starting to activate now are a step in that direction.


----------



## RichKid (14 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				websman said:
			
		

> Sorry rich.
> 
> My final word on all of this is that I hope The violence on the beach stops.
> 
> Best wishes...




I hope so too Webs, the questions now are: why did it start and how do we deal with it?...Thanks for you input, it is always worth considering various views and considering possible outcomes if we take certain courses of action in response.


----------



## pete152 (14 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				Lyehopper said:
			
		

> Rich.... What's you opinion of this news story?
> 
> http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/3521149.html
> 
> ...




With you all the way!! I am from Brisbane Australia, where you are not allowed to defend your self. 

Only the crooks have rights.

Peter


----------



## dutchie (14 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

Anti-social behaviour, racism and hate are learnt initially at home. This is where we need to start to turn around this scurge on the Australian landscape.

Part of the solution would be compulsory education, including English, to all new migrants. Topics could include our religious diversity, our customs, our ethos, our government system and importantly our social mores.

Another part would be compulsory marriage education and parenting education for any one wishing to get married or have children. This is long overdue (50% divorce rate, children out of control etc). 

All these lessons could be held in schools in the evenings (which would make better use of schools and help protect them from vandalism, increase employment and increase community awareness).

At the end of the above programs each successful student/person would recieve a certificate (social satisfaction).

Non attendance at migrant school - no permanent visa
Non attendance at marriage school - no marriage licence
Non attendance at parenting school - no government assistance 

Most parents try their best to raise their children but often lack the skills (which can be learnt) when problems arise. This sort of education is just as  important as the 3 R's. 

This would cost money of course but the savings of not having the costs of this week (Trauma, Policing costs, insurance, medical treatment etc) and other major costs to society (divorce, juvenile problems, unemployment) would well and truly cover it.


----------



## Smurf1976 (14 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

Agreed in principle about compulsory education but I worry that with government being involved the process would become ridiculously intrusive and complex.

In short, a shift worker who wants to do the marriage course (for example) needs to be catered for. That might mean running the course at 3 AM and if that's the case and it's compulsory then that's exactly what should happen.

Governments have a very nasty habit of assuming that everyone works 9 to 5 and has nothing to do at other times which could make the cost of education ridiculously expensive. Other than that it's a good idea though.


----------



## brerwallabi (15 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

My background is white anglo, I have many friends of Italian,Greek,Slav,German and some Egyptian and Turkish backgrounds. What I don't have is any from a leb background - why? They don't want to mix and despise all that is Australian apart from one rugby league team (and what an example that is), these kids have developed an attitude encouraged by their parents to challenge all authority and put themselves through their religion above all. The thoughts of these kids are fuelled by a few zeaLots. I believe in free expression but not the destruction of our australian way of life because we gamble, we drink and enjoy the freedom we have as both male and female australians to dress as we want because a small minority of community are taught to despise it. These kids really want to be like us but can't because of their muslim leadership thats teaches them that most things white anglo australian are evil and bad and should be despised. We cant fix it because they will always be lebs and muslims first.
This issue is now here long term and will take generaions to disappear. The cure is to stop all future immigration form Muslim countries we dont need any more fuel on the fire.
We don't need any more of these people.
We kid ourselves if we think otherwise.


----------



## Lyehopper (15 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				RichKid said:
			
		

> Also, if violence and executions are what makes American work the way it does then I really don't want to see it here or we'll become like the States. I still think we have a much better society here in Australia than you do in the States, I'd like to see us improve not deteriorate.



I'm pretty sure it will deteriorate.... Debate doesen't fix the problems. Fear does. And your countries thugs DO NOT have fear.

My point was this Rich.... and you can respect it or crap on it, I don't give a rats arse....

BUT .... I don't have the thugs and punks cursing and throwing rocks at me or beating me up or robbing me....Why?.... because they fear me.  Not because they personally know me (or several thousand fellas like me) I've ever done anything or said anything to them, I don't even (particularly) dislike them or their race.... We are engaged in absolutely NO ongoing fued (the thugs and my type).... THIS is why they fear me (us).... They know the law of the land, they know it's my (our) right to be legally armed and after profiling "my type" they figure I just might indeed be armed and they simply don't want to die.... And honestly Rich... I don't go screwing around with the thugs cause I don't want to die either (they have their guns illegally.... I have mine legally, we're on equal ground as far as fire power goes....but... the cops hassel them and take their gus away NOT MINE).... Problem solved.... Mutual respect from healthy fear.... They live in peace, I live in peace...No Worries!!!! They wind up killing each other more often than killing anyone else, which is GREAT and they weed themselves out and get locked up and eventially executed.... WOW what a great system!!!

This not a violent attitude, I am not a violent person.... I understand human nature, I don't try to change them.... they don't try to change me.  We co-exist in peace and respect.... and healthy FEAR...... 

What?... too simple minded for your deep thinking liberal intelect?.... Rich, this concept is centuries old.... it's simple and it works.

~Lye


----------



## doctorj (15 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

Lyehopper, I guess that's why we're different.  Thankfully.


----------



## wayneL (15 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				Lyehopper said:
			
		

> ....What?... too simple minded for your deep thinking liberal intelect?.... Rich, this concept is centuries old.... it works.
> 
> ~Lye




Lye, just to confuse you, in Ausralia the Liberal party are the conservatives, similar to your Rebublicans. The Labour party are the (what you would call ) liberals.

Though in practice, they seem indiscernible to each other


----------



## Lyehopper (15 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				wayneL said:
			
		

> Lye, just to confuse you, in Ausralia the Liberal party are the conservatives, similar to your Rebublicans. The Labour party are the (what you would call ) liberals.
> 
> Though in practice, they seem indiscernible to each other



Gottcha dude thanks for the info!.... Your Govt. is soooo far left that liberals are now considered conservative! funny! yet frightening....  So what is the Labour party called, communists?


----------



## wayneL (15 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				Lyehopper said:
			
		

> Gottcha dude thanks for the info!.... Your Govt. is soooo far left that liberals are now considered conservative! funny! yet frightening....  So what is the Labour party called, communists?




I suppose if your view is from the right of Ghengis Khan, then that could be the perception  

_Touche'_	:bier:


----------



## crash82au (15 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

Hey Lyehopper, Im pretty sure our labour party has crossed that line on a few occasions.  I agree with a few of your views on firearms and personal saftey, im licenced for a few classes of firearms here in australia, but because i live in a metro area the restrictions are very tight on how you can store weopons. One of our rules is to have ammo and firearms locked up separately, so if infact I was in any trouble I would be quite dead before I could get a hold of a loaded firearm. If someone broke into your house wielding a knife(could be fatal) - drawing a firearm would be considered close to murder(manslaughter) and you would go to jail if you killed that person defending yourself. Im not overly worried about the situation in cronulla, its a bit odd in our nation but if you crunch the numbers if a few lebs want to go about solving problems in a violent way I guarantee you there will be a thousand more aussies per leb that will quickly solve that problem with the same approach.

Danial


----------



## pete152 (15 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

Lyehopper, I guess that's why we're different. Your people stand up for them self’s; we do not which is a shame!

Peter


----------



## Lyehopper (15 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				wayneL said:
			
		

> I suppose if your view is from the right of Ghengis Khan, then that could be the perception
> 
> _Touche'_	:bier:



Wayne,

My views are somewhat right of George W. Bush.... don't know that much about Kahn's potitics.  I do understand that he had a nice horse though which is important....  Might have also been a good physical conservative.... don't think he had a trade deficit with China.... He was no push-over, but probibly left of Bush.

~Lye


----------



## websman (15 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				pete152 said:
			
		

> Lyehopper, I guess that's why we're different. Your people stand up for them self’s; we do not which is a shame!
> 
> Peter




Peter, you should come hang out with us.  Aussies are welcome in my neighborhood anytime.


----------



## RodC (15 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				dutchie said:
			
		

> Anti-social behaviour, racism and hate are learnt initially at home. This is where we need to start to turn around this scurge on the Australian landscape.
> 
> Part of the solution would be compulsory education, including English, to all new migrants. Topics could include our religious diversity, our customs, our ethos, our government system and importantly our social mores.
> 
> ...




This would never work. It would just create another expensive wasteful government beaurocracy. If anything trying to enforce "common thinking" may create even further resentment.

This is a complex issue which won't be solved overnight. Unfortunately it's been allowed to get to this stage ny poor policing and poor leadership by politicians who can't see any further than the next opinion poll.

What is needed now is consistent enforcement of the existing laws (for all) and a long term strategy to address the underlying social issues.

Rod.


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## pete152 (15 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				websman said:
			
		

> Peter, you should come hang out with us.  Aussies are welcome in my neighborhood anytime.



Thanks mate, might just take you up on that.
Cheers,
Peter


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## websman (15 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*

Not every American thinks like Lye and myself.  We have weenies here too.


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## wayneL (15 December 2005)

*Re: Aussie Beach Louts- time for change*



			
				Lyehopper said:
			
		

> but probibly left of Bush.
> ~Lye




That could well be true....  

But I think it's time to leave the politics aside folks. Let's get back onto trading!


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