# Western society is doomed



## wayneL (1 October 2017)

Slowly being killed off by doom mongers, virtue signallers and cultural Marxists, aided and abetted by a host of external antagonists. 

I wonder what our culture will look like in fifty or a hundred years if it exists at all.

What is the end game?


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## Gringotts Bank (1 October 2017)

That was a message of doom.  

The end game is to "be that self which one truly is".  ~Kierkegaard

Sounds plain and simple, but very few make it.


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## SirRumpole (1 October 2017)

The end game is probably civil war unless politicians realise that our western values are worth saving and stop immigration from certain quarters.


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## Wysiwyg (1 October 2017)

All it would take in Australia is a few million immigrants from for example the Middle East with their religious laws.


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## luutzu (1 October 2017)

wayneL said:


> Slowly being killed off by doom mongers, virtue signallers and cultural Marxists, aided and abetted by a host of external antagonists.
> 
> I wonder what our culture will look like in fifty or a hundred years if it exists at all.
> 
> What is the end game?




See what American societies would be in 50 or 100 years, then take away about 5 years for culture, 1 year for fashion, 20 years for technology and you're about where Australia would be. 

Though it could be turning Chinese. In which case replace "American" with "Chinese" and add in a few nuclear craters and a Mad Max landscape.


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## luutzu (1 October 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> The end game is probably civil war unless politicians realise that our western values are worth saving and stop immigration from certain quarters.




Not all values are worth saving.

Do you know how many "Western values" the West have to let go to make Western societies this greatest of civilisations, ever!? 

Kinda starts with getting rid of the Kings; adopt that Napoleonic Civil Code; fought a few revolutions to get rid of more kings and their devine rights; stop burning witches or dunking them into rivers to see if they floats; start reading long-lost but then translated Greek/Arab science and philosophies from those savages of the Muslim faith.

Give women the rights to vote; the rights to work; rights to education; Stop enslaving black and colored people in the same country; give them rights so they can sue if they're obviously discriminated against.

The gays are looking to be winning that right to ruin Western civilisation, again! But it's early days yet so let's not hang that rainbow flag up so fast.

That and if there's ever a civil war in Western countries, it's not going to be White/European versus the barbarians. It's going to be, as it has always been in all civil wars, an entire impoverished army of peasants led by a handful of failed "scholars" and mid-level generals against the establishment. 

Once that civil is done and dusted, then the dominant race will start to lock up (literally or through policies) minorities again.


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## SirRumpole (1 October 2017)

luutzu said:


> Do you know how many "Western values" the West have to let go to make Western societies this greatest of civilisations, ever!?




Western values are not perfect , but I'd rather have them over Communism or theocracies.


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## luutzu (1 October 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Western values are not perfect , but I'd rather have them over Communism or theocracies.




Communism/Stalinism/Leninism/Marxism, they're not all the same but let's assume they are... they're a "Western" value. Seeing how they came about from a German living in London; put to great use by a Russian, then spread to other countries.

Theocracies... same deal. All countries have 'em. Why do you think East, West, Middle East... no one like gays? 

Class and tax brackets are better differentiator than race or religion.


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## PZ99 (2 October 2017)

Surely the biggest contributor to the end of the West is the relatively falling birth rate?


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## orr (2 October 2017)

50 to 100yrs from now you will be being watched a hell of alot more closely than you are now(careful taking that probe out). And those 'with' will be watching those 'without' very closely... What a thriving environment for expression.
Historically high debt burden, doesn't sound like freedom to me (unless you're the creditor) ...
Concentration of wealth, doesnt sound like blossoming of opportunity for the greater population (they'd squander it anyway)...

May I suggest a little bit of Norwiegn Style Soverign Wealth fund. So that in 50 to 100yrs you'll own some of the robots that have by then  taken all the jobs... Freeing up your time to spend on culture ( Io io io).

As opposed to the road we're on now to a renewably powered  Plutocracy and neo-serfdom.


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## SirRumpole (2 October 2017)

orr said:


> May I suggest a little bit of Norwiegn Style Soverign Wealth fund. So that in 50 to 100yrs you'll own some of the robots that have by then taken all the jobs... Freeing up your time to spend on culture ( Io io io).




Excellent idea.


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## basilio (2 October 2017)

Civilisation as We Know it is certainy under threat.

Perhaps this clip says it all ?


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## dutchie (2 October 2017)

If this sort of sh#t keeps happening we truly are doomed.
*Couple sue SBS for defamation after broadcaster described their Colonial-themed restaurant as 'offensive' and profiteering from the Empire's 'bloody history'*

Read more:* http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ffensive-restaurant-report.html#ixzz4uIiul2mx*

Hope they skin SBS (even though some of it will be my taxes) but the Judge won't dare make such a ruling.


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## luutzu (2 October 2017)

dutchie said:


> If this sort of sh#t keeps happening we truly are doomed.
> *Couple sue SBS for defamation after broadcaster described their Colonial-themed restaurant as 'offensive' and profiteering from the Empire's 'bloody history'*
> 
> Read more:* http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ffensive-restaurant-report.html#ixzz4uIiul2mx*
> ...




The restaurant would have failed sooner or later mate. 

You can't celebrate imperialism like that. Heck, they might as well hired some black, brown or yellow folks as waiters dressed in their exotic customes and bow without eye contact as they serve food to the masters.

That's just bad taste. You gotta celebrate imperialism with things like giving money to dig a well; opening an orphanage; raise money to help this or that cause; and try not to quote Rudyard Kipling.


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## Wysiwyg (2 October 2017)

dutchie said:


> Hope they skin SBS (even though some of it will be my taxes) but the Judge won't dare make such a ruling.



I like watching SBS for its alternative to (9, 7, 10, ABC) news track and the presenters. I agree the Director should be held accountable for defamation. Interestingly ... Michael Abeid



> *Personal life*
> Ebeid was born in Cairo, Egypt, and moved to Sydney, Australia, with his family when he was three.
> 
> Ebeid, who came out as gay in the 1980s, has been described as, "without doubt one of Australia's most powerful media figures".[5][6]


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## Tisme (2 October 2017)

luutzu said:


> The restaurant would have failed sooner or later mate.
> 
> You can't celebrate imperialism like that. Heck, they might as well hired some black, brown or yellow folks as waiters dressed in their exotic customes and bow without eye contact as they serve food to the masters.
> 
> That's just bad taste. You gotta celebrate imperialism with things like giving money to dig a well; opening an orphanage; raise money to help this or that cause; and try not to quote Rudyard Kipling.





You haven'y been around much have you. Even the Raffles Hotel in Singapore is a celebrated tradition. 

Hate of the British Empire is merely a display at the frustration of being born a genetically second rate human. There's a reason genuine whitey is a mere fraction of the world's population, yet dominates it by birthright. Something incalculable by those 97% born not so well skilled.


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## basilio (2 October 2017)

Tisme said:


> You haven'y been around much have you. Even the Raffles Hotel in Singapore is a celebrated tradition.
> 
> Hate of the British Empire is merely a display at the frustration of being born a genetically second rate human. There's a reason genuine whitey is a mere fraction of the world's population, yet dominates it by birthright. Something incalculable by those 97% born not so well skilled.




Wow!!! That is SO,  SO, So "good" Tisme. Is it all a bit slow today and your imperialistic juices need a bit of a stir? Perhaps you feel a need to pull out some piccies of the Queen (or a King ?) to provide some pictorial assistance for whatever you have in hand at the moment.

You are such a devil arn't you matey? How can we not appreciate such a poised(ous) appriasal of the wonders of the Colonial Master race ? So delightfully droll and Tizzinesque.

There are good reasons why many "non whiteys" might feel contempt for the inestimable values offered by the Raj, West Indian slave traders, Opium runners and South African CC masters. But ... it would be a waste of bandwidth here.


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## Wysiwyg (2 October 2017)

wayneL said:


> Slowly being killed off by doom mongers, virtue signallers and cultural Marxists, aided and abetted by a host of external antagonists.



Can you pinpoint the **** stirrers or are they concealed by messengers? I like to go straight for the source rather than through the puppets.


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## Tisme (2 October 2017)

basilio said:


> Wow!!! That is SO,  SO, So "good" Tisme. Is it all a bit slow today and your imperialistic juices need a bit of a stir? Perhaps you feel a need to pull out some piccies of the Queen (or a King ?) to provide some pictorial assistance for whatever you have in hand at the moment.
> 
> You are such a devil arn't you matey? How can we not appreciate such a poised(ous) appriasal of the wonders of the Colonial Master race ? So delightfully droll and Tizzinesque.
> 
> There are good reasons why many "non whiteys" might feel contempt for the inestimable values offered by the Raj, West Indian slave traders, Opium runners and South African CC masters. But ... it would be a waste of bandwidth here.




You're not white skinned are you? 

You are aware the thread is about westerners = British foundation


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## wayneL (2 October 2017)

Tisme said:


> You're not white skinned are you?
> 
> You are aware the thread is about westerners = British foundation



There are plenty of self loathing whitefella. How the Marxists engineered that, I'm not quite sure,  but it was pretty clever. 

Of course bas could very well be a brown skinned muslim on the LGBTI spectrum somewhere,  but I've got him pegged as whitey with a cultural death wish.


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## wayneL (2 October 2017)

Wysiwyg said:


> Can you pinpoint the **** stirrers or are they concealed by messengers? I like to go straight for the source rather than through the puppets.



It's a great point,  but it's clear the "source" doesn't want to be known.


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## Tisme (2 October 2017)

wayneL said:


> There are plenty of self loathing whitefella. How the Marxists engineered that, I'm not quite sure,  but it was pretty clever.
> 
> Of course bas could very well be a brown skinned muslim on the LGBTI spectrum somewhere,  but I've got him pegged as whitey with a cultural death wish.




Well you could be right there Wayne, but Melanin Theory is a fairly robust concept that seems to be self evidencing these days. Where someone sits on the curve is a good indicator of spiritual sensitivity and morality scaling.

Even our SSM leaders are parading and correlating the defeat of Anglo virtues as a good reason to embrace the yes case.


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## Tisme (2 October 2017)

basilio said:


> slave traders, Opium runners and South African CC masters. But ... it would be a waste of bandwidth here.




Slaver trade wholesalers = Islamic arabs and still are = not British
Opium wholesalers and runners = Chinese and asians = not British
South African masters = Dutch Boers = not British


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## Wysiwyg (2 October 2017)

Tisme said:


> Even our SSM leaders are parading and correlating the defeat of Anglo virtues as a good reason to embrace the yes case.



Don't know Mal's reasoning apart from being on the winning side of anything but with Shorten, is it too long a bow to suggest he ultmately appeals to the large Communist state?


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## luutzu (2 October 2017)

Tisme said:


> Slaver trade wholesalers = Islamic arabs and still are = not British
> Opium wholesalers and runners = Chinese and asians = not British
> South African masters = Dutch Boers = not British




Has the Scottish and Irish part of you ever reach out and slap your English part?

Come on McGee, I'm sure your history books weren't that clueless.


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## luutzu (2 October 2017)

Tisme said:


> You haven'y been around much have you. Even the Raffles Hotel in Singapore is a celebrated tradition.
> 
> Hate of the British Empire is merely a display at the frustration of being born a genetically second rate human. There's a reason genuine whitey is a mere fraction of the world's population, yet dominates it by birthright. Something incalculable by those 97% born not so well skilled.




Sorry to bust your Pompous bubble McGee but the sun had long ago set on the British Empire. To hate or envy British superiority today, to see the English as that superior master race... That's like the Comrades in Beijing harking back to Imperial Chou, Chin, Han, Tang, Ming, Qing and mirror themselves as the new great emperors [see what I did there?].

The glory ain't in London anymore. There's just rain, snow and lots of tourists being reminded of memories of a once mighty empire losing its colonies to a bunch of renegades whose descendants today completely usurped all former British colonies and control the motherland itself - often with the British fascade still in tact.


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## satanoperca (2 October 2017)

Tisme said:


> Where someone sits on the curve is a good indicator of spiritual sensitivity and morality scaling.
> 
> Even our SSM leaders are parading and correlating the defeat of Anglo virtues as a good reason to embrace the yes case.




Please help me out, I am but a simpleton, 1 & O works for me.

WTF does your comment mean? Sounds great, but has no meaning.

What is morality scaling? Do I need to go back to Uni for another degree to understand your comments?

Maybe I need to start taking ACID to understand your comments.


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## luutzu (2 October 2017)

satanoperca said:


> Please help me out, I am but a simpleton, 1 & O works for me.
> 
> WTF does your comment mean? Sounds great, but has no meaning.
> 
> ...




He means to say how insensitive and pompous a person is depends on how White they are. That only non Aryan-White people would find European superiority and colonialism offensive. 

Which isn't at all true of course. For one, there are plenty of "White" and freckled people who are good and decent human being. That and Trump is yellow/orange and he's as racist and imperialistic as any baboon could be.


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## satanoperca (2 October 2017)

Are that makes sense.

Well, as a simpleton, who has traveled the world, I find all people can be racists (maybe a better definition is arseholes)  regardless of colour of skin.


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## SirRumpole (2 October 2017)

> Which isn't at all true of course. For one, there are plenty of "White" and freckled people who are good and decent human being. That and Trump is yellow/orange and he's as racist and imperialistic as any baboon could be.




The Egyptians and Babylonians were leaders in maths and science for centuries. They went downhill very quickly once they found their own brand of religion.

Then the Brits took over in science and maths. Newton, Maxwell, Rutherford etc, then the Yanks took over by sheer weight of resources resulting from plundering their continent.

Not to mention that Indians (sub continent) has a rich tradition in maths as well.

Empires rise and fall. I don't really believe that any race is more intelligent than any other, but the Brits/Americans have embraced science and technology because it enables them to control others, other countries control their people using religion, and that's where science usually ends.


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## luutzu (2 October 2017)

satanoperca said:


> Are that makes sense.
> 
> Well, as a simpleton, who has traveled the world, I find all people can be racists (maybe a better definition is arseholes)  regardless of colour of skin.




Yea, every race has its special brand of patriots. Some are so patriotic they even hate their own of the same race but lower on the tax bracket.

They all like money though. So let's earn more of those.


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## Wysiwyg (2 October 2017)

satanoperca said:


> Are that makes sense.
> 
> Well, as a simpleton, who has traveled the world, I find all people can be racists (maybe a better definition is arseholes)  regardless of colour of skin.



And that is the crux of thie racism issue. Anyway ....



> *race *
> (rās)_n._
> *1. * A group of people identified as distinct from other groups because of supposed physical or genetic traits shared by the group. *Most biologists and anthropologists do not recognize race as a biologically valid classification, in part because there is more genetic variation within groups than between them*.




Playing the racism card is an easy out too many times nowadays,


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## Tisme (2 October 2017)

luutzu said:


> Sorry to bust your Pompous bubble McGee but the sun had long ago set on the British Empire. To hate or envy British superiority today, to see the English as that superior master race... That's like the Comrades in Beijing harking back to Imperial Chou, Chin, Han, Tang, Ming, Qing and mirror themselves as the new great emperors [see what I did there?].
> 
> The glory ain't in London anymore. There's just rain, snow and lots of tourists being reminded of memories of a once mighty empire losing its colonies to a bunch of renegades whose descendants today completely usurped all former British colonies and control the motherland itself - often with the British fascade still in tact.




Still there, just hiding behind the giant mercantile companies it controls. 

Don't get me wrong, there's an Aussie tradition of pommy bashing that must be upheld if we are to keep whatever remnants of  Great Australia remains.


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## Tisme (2 October 2017)

satanoperca said:


> Are that makes sense.
> 
> Well, as a simpleton, who has traveled the world, I find all people can be racists (maybe a better definition is arseholes)  regardless of colour of skin.




Yeah but yo must admit you have a better chance of survival being an Arab spruiking dissent in Oz  than a white fella spruiking rule of law in Saudi Arabia, China, Russia, South America., Africa, Italy, Spain. MIddle East ...yadda yadda yadda


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## Tisme (2 October 2017)




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## luutzu (2 October 2017)

Tisme said:


> Still there, just hiding behind the giant mercantile companies it controls.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, there's an Aussie tradition of pommy bashing that must be upheld if we are to keep whatever remnants of  Great Australia remains.




Don't all them mercantile companies either half owned by the yanks or  only operate when and where permitted by them?

Kinda like all English movie worth watching: It must either have an American actor in it or funded by one. Often, both.


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## satanoperca (2 October 2017)

Tisme said:


> Yeah but yo must admit you have a better chance of survival being an Arab spruiking dissent in Oz  than a white fella spruiking rule of law in Saudi Arabia, China, Russia, South America., Africa, Italy, Spain. MIddle East ...yadda yadda yadda




WTF, I asked for a simple explanation, not more of the same. What does your comment mean?

Last I checked, I am a white Aussie who does't live in any of the countries.


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## Tisme (2 October 2017)

luutzu said:


> Don't all them mercantile companies either half owned by the yanks or  only operate when and where permitted by them?
> 
> Kinda like all English movie worth watching: It must either have an American actor in it or funded by one. Often, both.




Well yes and no. e.g. when WW1 was imminent the filthy wealthy British poured their assets in the USA with American facades, just like they have in China and India more recently.

Certainly America  has enormous wealth, but a lot of foreigners have very large holding overtly and covertly.


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## Tisme (2 October 2017)

satanoperca said:


> WTF, I asked for a simple explanation, not more of the same. What does your comment mean?
> 
> Last I checked, I am a white Aussie who does't live in any of the countries.




but didn't you profess to be an expert on all people in the world being racist, regardless of skin colour ?  That's not the mark of a simpleton.





wayneL said:


> Slowly being killed off by doom mongers, *virtue signallers* and cultural Marxists, aided and abetted by a host of external antagonists.
> 
> I wonder what our culture will look like in fifty or a hundred years if it exists at all.
> 
> What is the end game?


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## luutzu (2 October 2017)

Tisme said:


> Well yes and no. e.g. when WW1 was imminent the filthy wealthy British poured their assets in the USA with American facades, just like they have in China and India more recently.
> 
> Certainly America  has enormous wealth, but a lot of foreigners have very large holding overtly and covertly.




See why the Confucians were right to put merchants on the lowest runk in the social order? 

Whose idea was it to take pride in promoting greed, self-interest and money above all else? Well, I guess it is quite an achievement to promote such "free trade" and self-interest but somehow always managed to unite the plebs to go fight and die for free dome, democracy and the homeland.

Didn't the Poms moved their cash to Uncle Sam after WWII too? All the riches of Europe were moved; then the US returned it by lending it back (with interest) with American made products bought on loan. 

Yes, America and the West have been luring capital flight from other parts of the world. I guess the upside is they didn't use opium and bayonets (on powerful countries) this time, they let the dictators, druglords, warlords, princes, their princelings to the task. Progress!


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## basilio (2 October 2017)

Tisme said:


> You haven'y been around much have you. Even the Raffles Hotel in Singapore is a celebrated tradition.
> 
> Hate of the British Empire is merely a display at the frustration of being born a genetically second rate human. There's a reason genuine whitey is a mere fraction of the world's population, yet dominates it by birthright. Something incalculable by those 97% born not so well skilled.




You all realise that Tizzie was just being sarcastic don't you ?  Just a bit of 'armless d(t)rollery dressed up in delibrately ridiculous imperialism?
All sucked in arn't you now ? What do you believe ? What do you want to believe ? What should you believe ? What do we take "seriously" ?

What do we let slide as a bad joke ?

What do we laugh at nervously or otherwise ?

What do we call out ?
____________________________________________

By the way Tisme you are dead wrong in your denial of the British in slave trading, Opium running and running concentration  camps in South Africa. I  would have guessed that someone as well read as you would realise that so your denials or misdirection pose some interesting questions.


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## luutzu (2 October 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> The Egyptians and Babylonians were leaders in maths and science for centuries. They went downhill very quickly once they found their own brand of religion.
> 
> Then the Brits took over in science and maths. Newton, Maxwell, Rutherford etc, then the Yanks took over by sheer weight of resources resulting from plundering their continent.
> 
> ...




My memory of ME history is a bit hazy, but the hey days of ancient Egypt and Babylon/Persia was taken over by the Greeks following Alexander. 

Alexander's generals divvy up the empire, mixing themselves in among the barbarians to such an extend that it soon became hard to tell what's Greek and what's native in, say, Ptolemy's Egypt.

So lots of M/E science and knowledge was mixed in with Greeks... until Rome burned and salted Carthage [modern day Libya?] to gain supremacy over the Mediterranean. Moved to Alexandria, burnt that great library, took Greek's science and myth blah blah.

These were some 7 centuries or more before Muhammad was called to the mountain. And by my understanding, Islam "unite" the Middle East and ruled it with love, kindness and no doubt a crap load of operation liberation freedom civilising missions until all either believe in Muhammad or pay higher taxes.

So science, progress and stuff flourished under Islam during its days of empire and being that indispensable, God-fearing state.


Every country control its people by religion. In Western countries, God is often separated from Church but some still managed to bring back the good old days. That and they have a better god with a more powerful religion: Money and freedom to plunder and exploit.


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## basilio (2 October 2017)

British History as it was
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/6185756.stm
https://www.thoughtco.com/the-first-and-second-opium-wars-195276
http://www.historywiz.com/didyouknow/concentrationcamp.htm


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## luutzu (2 October 2017)

An example of Western decline:

Trump on Puerto Rico: It's surrounded by water, big water, sea water. 

Though the fact that two comedians can laugh at the emperor and still not disappeared... there's some hope.


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## Tisme (3 October 2017)

luutzu said:


> My memory of ME history is a bit hazy, but the hey days of ancient Egypt and Babylon/Persia was taken over by the Greeks following Alexander.
> 
> Alexander's generals divvy up the empire, mixing themselves in among the barbarians to such an extend that it soon became hard to tell what's Greek and what's native in, say, Ptolemy's Egypt.
> 
> ...




The problem with regurgitating the past to suit an argument are the factors many of us, blessed with vast knowledge and balance, are all too well aware of, especially students of Darwin. When you parade fiction dressed up as fact you are displaying your bias for all the world to see, albeit disguised behind a facade of self interest. These are critical issues that must  be addressed in marketing:

Firstly you must make the distinctions between truth, expectations and falsehoods. Our brains are wired for political bias and we can't do anything to rid ourselves of tribal bias, which is the core question being posed by WayneL and his concern for the terminal condition of our once great culture

To go back in history to prove the present is a great way to apply personal bias'. In marketing you/we must accommodate these bias' and be aware that frequency often gazumps probability:


1) age bias
2) gender bias
3) Over confidence bias (something I'm not susceptible to)
4) Rationalsim
5) Hindsight bias
6) Fallacious Conjunctions
7) Base rate fallacy
8) Racial, ethnic and cultural bias

Maslow's theory aside, one of the biggest drivers for arguing the toss when confronted with a superior protagonist is heuristics, where we assume something that agrees with our point of view is much more valid than something we know nothing or little of. When heuristic boundaries are encountered in an argument generality often replaces specificity.

The fallback is to recognition of names, places, trauma, etc. Often that heuristic single minded point of view has a truer decision merit than Bayes theorem or the multiple points of evidence that the Perry Mason people would use to prove their own intransigent point of view.

As has been proven time and time again on this forum, I have a solid heuristic core that is predicated on fact and nothing but the facts. After relentlessly asking for proof of argument using facts, the score so far is Tisme: 1,347 Others: Zip. My record rests on its own merits and I rest my case.


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## luutzu (3 October 2017)

Tisme said:


> The problem with regurgitating the past to suit an argument are the factors many of us, blessed with vast knowledge and balance, are all too well aware of, especially students of Darwin. When you parade fiction dressed up as fact you are displaying your bias for all the world to see, albeit disguised behind a facade of self interest. These are critical issues that must  be addressed in marketing:
> 
> Firstly you must make the distinctions between truth, expectations and falsehoods. Our brains are wired for political bias and we can't do anything to rid ourselves of tribal bias, which is the core question being posed by WayneL and his concern for the terminal condition of our once great culture
> 
> ...




Brought back memories of uni days where I would open a textbook, read to the third paragraph and realise I have no idea what the egghead was on about. 

I thought Maslow was on about the hierarchy of needs. He talks about biases too?

I would have to fire up Google to translate your, somewhat insightful, essay there. But it's too early for that, the coffee haven't kicked in yet. Which reminds me, gotta buy proper Woolies Select coffee and milk, this Asian pre-packed mix of "coffee" and white powder won't do.


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## Tisme (3 October 2017)

luutzu said:


> Brought back memories of uni days where I would open a textbook, read to the third paragraph and realise I have no idea what the egghead was on about.
> 
> I thought Maslow was on about the hierarchy of needs. He talks about biases too?
> 
> I would have to fire up Google to translate your, somewhat insightful, essay there. But it's too early for that, the coffee haven't kicked in yet. Which reminds me, gotta buy proper Woolies Select coffee and milk, this Asian pre-packed mix of "coffee" and white powder won't do.




Remember that knowledge is power my son.

Maslow's hierarchy is marketing 101 and as is a mouthful of word speak like "early adopters", "target market' etc. Real marketing, as opposed to it's reincarnation in recent years as an arts degree, is about mathematics, datasets, human behaviour, products and services, manipulation, and all those "isms" and models.

Necessarily, human decision making is described in terms similar in complexity to why vegemite is a standout when compared to marmite and promite..... some things (and some of use) are just irrefutably correct.


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## Value Collector (3 October 2017)

wayneL said:


> I wonder what our culture will look like in fifty or a hundred years if it exists at all.




Has there been a 100 year period where our culture hasn't significantly changed?


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## luutzu (3 October 2017)

Tisme said:


> Remember that knowledge is power my son.
> 
> Maslow's hierarchy is marketing 101 and as is a mouthful of word speak like "early adopters", "target market' etc. Real marketing, as opposed to it's reincarnation in recent years as an arts degree, is about mathematics, datasets, human behaviour, products and services, manipulation, and all those "isms" and models.
> 
> Necessarily, human decision making is described in terms similar in complexity to why vegemite is a standout when compared to marmite and promite..... some things (and some of use) are just irrefutably correct.




C'on, knowledge is not power. 
Money and gunpowder is power. 
You, being English, should know that better than most. 

Knowledge that leads to money can be said to be power. But only once it produces money. Before the cash comes in, it's just an idiot being irresponsible with his time where real smart people work 9 to 5, earn $100K a year and "owns" 3 properties, a BMW and take annual holidays overseas.

Knowledge itself, for its own sake, is only for amusement on internet forums.

---------

Yea, real marketing can be all that fancy maths, data analysis, quality products and services... That or gunboats and a Marshall Plan.


----------



## luutzu (3 October 2017)

Value Collector said:


> Has there been a 100 year period where our culture hasn't significantly changed?




But dude, change was necessary in the olden days when things were bad. In today's modern world, who needs change when we have things are great as they are. 

Just look at today's effeminate girly men and wanting equality, helping their wive with child rearing and domestic housework. prffff... going down the tube this place. Gonna be taken over by the Chinese and Arabs who do real manly stuff and beats all their wives, without alcohol too!


----------



## Tisme (3 October 2017)

luutzu said:


> C'on, knowledge is not power.
> Money and gunpowder is power.
> You, being English, should know that better than most.
> 
> ...




Correction I'm an Australphobe who concedes, perhaps begrudgingly, that the Brits are the reason for the rule of law, for the industrial revolution, for the innovation revolution, for commerce, for whiteman's rule, and for Australia as we knew it a few years back before imported arcane perversion grew legs and took over our social and political must needs.

We have become a pussy nation of bleeding hearts where the comfort of the few social 'tards is more important than the mob.

One thing remains constant:


----------



## albaby (3 October 2017)

Great article in the Oz today,I don't share Matt Ridleys' optimism.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...s/news-story/8de1283fe163dcccc2d68b3cf7f1408a


----------



## Tisme (3 October 2017)

albaby said:


> Great article in the Oz today,I don't share Matt Ridleys' optimism.
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...s/news-story/8de1283fe163dcccc2d68b3cf7f1408a





His blog is a good read:



> I am fairly certain that the Enlightenment is not over, that discovery and reason will overwhelm dogma and superstition. Seven years ago my book The Rational Optimist set out a positive vision of the world. But the spread of fundamentalist Islam, the growth of Hindu nationalism and Russian autocracy, the intolerance of dissent in western universities and the puritanical hectoring of social media give grounds for concern that the flowering of freedom in the past several centuries may come under threat. We have a fight on our hands.


----------



## luutzu (3 October 2017)

Tisme said:


> Correction I'm an Australphobe who concedes, perhaps begrudgingly, that the Brits are the reason for the rule of law, for the industrial revolution, for the innovation revolution, for commerce, for whiteman's rule, and for Australia as we knew it a few years back before imported arcane perversion grew legs and took over our social and political must needs.
> 
> We have become a pussy nation of bleeding hearts where the comfort of the few social 'tards is more important than the mob.
> 
> ...




Australphobe? So you dislike or loathe Australia? tut tut. 

Are you trying to pull a Chinese with all that claims about British innovation and white goodness? 

What else was left out in them innovation and civilising burden? The list is way too long we're lucky the Indians and Arabs invented the proper numerals instead of sticking to Roman Numerals widely used across its former colonies 

And no, the first rule of law was the Code of Hammurabi, in Babylon around 1700 before God sent his one and only son - Superman    Followed by other culture, probably China with the LEGALIST starting with Lord Shang around 800BCE. That's some 800 years before the first Caesar got bored of conquering most of the civilised world and decided to take a boat ride over the channel to collect a few savages to the collection.

Might surprised you that most of the mob are fine with gays and their having equal rights.


----------



## Tisme (3 October 2017)

luutzu said:


> Australphobe? So you dislike or loathe Australia? tut tut.
> 
> Are you trying to pull a Chinese with all that claims about British innovation and white goodness?
> 
> ...




You're just arguing for the sake of arguing. Of course the Brits gave us the rule of law and parliaments. Why is it whenever someone loses an argument they resort to an irrelevant primitive history for precedence.

Britain was the greatest empire there ever was and it sponged on every culture it seconded to make it and its possessions enriched with the cross pollination of ideas and skills that make up modern societies around the world. The political, technological, industrial, labour and innovation revolutions were all born out of Britain, forget about ground rhinoceros horn and shark fin soup, and get onboard with the smart folk.


----------



## SirRumpole (3 October 2017)

Tisme said:


> You're just arguing for the sake of arguing. Of course the Brits gave us the rule of law and parliaments. Why is it whenever someone loses an argument they resort to an irrelevant primitive history for precedence.
> 
> Britain was the greatest empire there ever was and it sponged on every culture it seconded to make it and its possessions enriched with the cross pollination of ideas and skills that make up modern societies around the world. The political, technological, industrial, labour and innovation revolutions were all born out of Britain, forget about ground rhinoceros horn and shark fin soup, and get onboard with the smart folk.




I never liked Yorkshire puddings or dumplings much though.

As for warm beer, well ...


----------



## SirRumpole (3 October 2017)

Our government and institutions have to have the balls to stand up to this sort of cultural imperialism, or we will be forced under.

*Australia's universities are failing to protect free speech*



> Academic freedom is increasingly under threat on Australian campuses, and widespread speech codes leave universities unprepared to combat the danger.
> 
> The latest threat comes from a new source: *Chinese students, on four known occasions this year, have pressured academics to modify material to align with Chinese government foreign policy.*
> 
> ...





If Chinese students enter into this sort of subversive activity they should be thrown out, and not have their fees refunded. It's disgraceful.


----------



## orr (3 October 2017)

Tisme said:


> The political, technological, industrial, labour and innovation revolutions were *all *born out of Britain,



*?????*

Gunpowder ?                                 *Where's the 'Empire without that?
Copernicus ?                                  *see above
Galileo ?                                        *see above
The Renaissance?                             *Does life imitate art or visa v
The enlightenment?                        *see above...
Double Entry book keeping?            *Wedgwood would have gone broke without it.
etc,etc
FFS!
You can see along way when you stand on the shoulders of giants... Even over the Channel.

The above are but one, more or less from the 'west'. City states of the Continent.
And it's a big swim from Britain to pick up Tom Payne's 'Rights of Man' hot off the press.
Plenty of Witch burning going on  all over the place at that time as well. A practice Tony Abbot, Alan Jones and pack of other commercially microphoned mental midgets would be all to happy to re-instate as a town square entertainment. 
A little bit of looking further afield on education might address what seem some deficiency's here. 
May I suggest Worlds best practice the Finish model.


----------



## Tisme (3 October 2017)

orr said:


> *?????*
> 
> Gunpowder ?                                 *Where's the 'Empire without that?
> Copernicus ?                                  *see above
> ...





Once again you are relying on primitives to bolster an argument about modern industrialised society.

Who cares that China managed to make some cracker black powder. The first real use of "gunpowder" was by the Brits against Calais in the 14 century.

Copernicas, Galilleo, Victa lawn mowers and hills hoists all great discoveries, but pale in the face of the sheer mass of British enterprise, protestantism, and cando.


----------



## luutzu (4 October 2017)

Tisme said:


> Once again you are relying on primitives to bolster an argument about modern industrialised society.
> 
> Who cares that China managed to make some cracker black powder. The first real use of "gunpowder" was by the Brits against Calais in the 14 century.
> 
> Copernicas, Galilleo, Victa lawn mowers and hills hoists all great discoveries, but pale in the face of the sheer mass of British enterprise, protestantism, and cando.




Fighting words from a country that was a sunny day's away from being a colony of Spain, then France, then Nazi Germany.

Btw, aren't the Poms pretty much the bastard child of French's Normandy?


----------



## luutzu (4 October 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Our government and institutions have to have the balls to stand up to this sort of cultural imperialism, or we will be forced under.
> 
> *Australia's universities are failing to protect free speech*
> 
> ...




No, if you kick them out you gotta refund their money.
Since money is more important than academic and actual history stuff, gotta lose some to win some. Capitalism 101. 

I'm a bit surprised international students paid that much attention in class. Alright, that's not fair. Most students never paid any attention in class, foreign or domestic.


----------



## luutzu (4 October 2017)

Tisme said:


> You're just arguing for the sake of arguing. Of course the Brits gave us the rule of law and parliaments. Why is it whenever someone loses an argument they resort to an irrelevant primitive history for precedence.
> 
> Britain was the greatest empire there ever was and it sponged on every culture it seconded to make it and its possessions enriched with the cross pollination of ideas and skills that make up modern societies around the world. The political, technological, industrial, labour and innovation revolutions were all born out of Britain, forget about ground rhinoceros horn and shark fin soup, and get onboard with the smart folk.




The Poms can't even name their houses of parliament right, let alone gave law and order to anyone.

When you want that republican, government of the people fascade, you don't name your houses "The House of Lords" and "The House of Common". Might as well call it House of Imbred Lords and House of the Peasants. 

See, should follow the Yanks who followed the Romans and call it a Senate and a Congress; Maybe following the Aussie convicts is a bit too pleby, what with Upper and Lower house. Same meaning, different sound and optic.

As to giving bringing civilisation and riches to the barbarians... hmmm... have you seen the former colonies? In colonies where the natives didn't all "sacrificed themselves" for the greater good, their descendants all live in squalor and abject poverty.

You got to learn from the Asians man. Well, ignore Genghis who wasn't very good either... but learn from, say, the Japs. They just slaughter "only" a few dozen thousands or so natives at first contact, a few dozen thousand more soon after to keep the peace... then they actually set about growing the colony's economy. Lifting a whole lot more barbarians out of poverty than the few selected families.

You got to learn to fatten your host, not kill it.

that's why when the time was right, a "half naked" frail Indian could just say a few words calling his people to peacefully march and you lost an entire sub-continent. Good thing most of the riches had long been spirited away though ey?

As to technology and innovation... prfff... not that hard to "innovate" when you stole every great ideas that's out there, stopped the innovation and industriousness out of those you colonised - serious, Egyptian cotton industry was far superior to Brits; Indians metallurgy and fabricworks were lightyears ahead but have to stop (or else!). That and having no issue with a few generations of your own peasant children and women losing life and limb in the sweat shops. No doubt serving king, country and selfless merchants.

As to rhino's horn and shark find soup... yea you got them there. Ey, there's a lot of Asians, so expect a lot of idiots.


----------



## Tisme (4 October 2017)

luutzu said:


> Fighting words from a country that was a sunny day's away from being a colony of Spain, then France, then Nazi Germany.
> 
> Btw, aren't the Poms pretty much the bastard child of French's Normandy?




LOL......if you can work out who owned whom back in the day you're doing well. The Plantagenets owned a fair bit of France and France itself was pretty much the backyard of England up until the Treaty of Bretigny, so if we are going to go into history, it's the Brits who have some fairly respectable provenance.


----------



## Tisme (4 October 2017)

luutzu said:


> - serious, Egyptian cotton industry was far superior to Brits; Indians metallurgy and fabricworks were lightyears ahead but have to stop (or else!). .




That was a long long bow statement right there LOL

Pounding copper and trying to make gold from lead and arsenic is hardly in the same league as scientifically perfecting steel making for cheap, in turn providing the means of even cheaper mass production.

It was the advent of the industrial revolution in Britain in the 1700's that pissed off the American colonies, because they saw themselves becoming merely a means of production for mother England manufacturing rather than being partners. Like the Chinese, the Americans like to think they invented everything long before it was actually thought of and they grow to believe their own bu77shit.


----------



## luutzu (4 October 2017)

Tisme said:


> That was a long long bow statement right there LOL
> 
> Pounding copper and trying to make gold from lead and arsenic is hardly in the same league as scientifically perfecting steel making for cheap, in turn providing the means of even cheaper mass production.
> 
> It was the advent of the industrial revolution in Britain in the 1700's that pissed off the American colonies, because they saw themselves becoming merely a means of production for mother England manufacturing rather than being partners. Like the Chinese, the Americans like to think they invented everything long before it was actually thought of and they grow to believe their own bu77shit.




C'on McGee, I've watched a few series of Horrible Histories on the ABC. I know the crazy and idiotic things the Poms were doing up until, maybe Charles Darwin thought he should stop going to Church knowing what he then knew was the origin of species.

And no, it's not a long bow. Just look at all the countries that have been liberated and civilised by England, or France, Europe, (Soviets, US, Ancient China... but these are not on topic).

Compare those countries to Japan. The only one of the coloured folks that managed to keep Western "influence" out during the heydays of colonialism. 

So it's either the colonies were exploited and enslaved, or the master race put gold after silver to help the savages out but they're just no good. Like what Trump said of Puerto Rico from his golf course - these dam lazy coloured "Americans" want everything done for them; then again today when he visited them to say how their country being wiped out by 3 hurricanes in 6 weeks is really putting the US budget out of whack. You know, the US send in all that food, water, fuel and medical care that no one beside the military bases see or touch.

Oh yes, Western decline... It's not because of immigrants or refugees or endless wars to liberate and free the Arabs, the Fillipino that's doing it. 

It's neo-liberalism and their austerity, tax cuts to the uber rich and multinational corporations - you know, the people who held no allegiance to any country; and whose spending pattern will not be affected even if they lose a billion or ten. 

Forty years of that will ruin any country. 

A country cannot afford to fund corporate welfare receipients with tax cuts, with subsidies, with white element projects for "security", "national security"... then when profits are made, the corporations take it all, shifts it into tax shelters, drove it through tax loopholes... then the working poor will have to pony up more and more.

As Machiavelli said, a Republic is preferable to a Monarchy because it "ensure" continuous generation of able leadership. Monarchies can dominate if 3 generations of its Princes are all capable.  

Likewise, a republic that's been screwing its own people and plunder its own national resources since the late 1970s... that's like rats gnawing at the pillars for two generations, and about to kick into high gear with the current third. 

Hillary Clinton was asked what's her worst national security fear. It's not the Arab terrorists, it's automation.

Why? Because it will put a heck of a lot more people out of work. 

Why is that bad? 

Because her husband's bill to lock up "excess" human resources can only go so far. 

When you have too much dead wood, can't ship out anymore latinos and illegals... all that field need is a spark and whoosh.


----------



## sptrawler (4 October 2017)

wayneL said:


> Slowly being killed off by doom mongers, virtue signallers and cultural Marxists, aided and abetted by a host of external antagonists.
> 
> I wonder what our culture will look like in fifty or a hundred years if it exists at all.
> 
> What is the end game?




Obviously the end game is to keep those who work, working for the term of their natural lives.
Welfare will become unaffordable, but grandfathering measures will ensure that those receiving welfare will keep it, that is unless they are unfortunate enough to obtain work, then the grandfathering ceases.
The upside is, work that has previously been superseded, will probably be re introduced e.g bus and train conductors
Pensions will continue, for those who can obtain medical certificates, to certify they are totally incapacitated.
So all in all our culture will probably return to the family unit as it was, where the young look after the old, it should be a breath of fresh air.


----------



## luutzu (4 October 2017)

sptrawler said:


> Obviously the end game is to keep those who work, working for the term of their natural lives.
> Welfare will become unaffordable, but grandfathering measures will ensure that those receiving welfare will keep it, that is unless they are unfortunate enough to obtain work, then the grandfathering ceases.
> The upside is, work that has previously been superseded, will probably be re introduced e.g bus and train conductors
> Pensions will continue, for those who can obtain medical certificates, to certify they are totally incapacitated.
> So all in all our culture will probably return to the family unit as it was, where the young look after the old, it should be a breath of fresh air.




I know it's good for people to work and all. But work shouldn't be forced on senior people (through debt and lost of their savings through market crashes by the smart money etc.).

Saw an interview with that smug Costello where he brag about his plan to have Australians "work til they drop" (his word). Why? Because they live too bloody long. Longer than he and his mates estimate when they set the pension age.

See, Costello and co. put the retirement/pension age at some 65. That's alright, he said, because his model showed that most Aussies would die a few years before they get to that age. So a holes like himself who work in nice, cool offices with high pay and good holidays etc., they tend to live longer than that Aussie battler working in the sun and breathing in the dust all day... They get to enjoy the pension while the workers mostly died off.

See how no welfare cheats or refugees are screwing the working class Aussie so far?

Now, most battlers live beyond 65 and so life is a bit tougher on the pension systems. So... "work til you drop". 

So much for the Commies slogan of "labour is glorious". 

But old, sick and working is not for every lazy old people. How to solve that and still give tax cuts to the rich?

Reverse Home Equity Loan to Seniors. 

Let them take out a loan against their home. Don't need to wait for the old bastards to die, just wait til the property market crashed... show them that the loan is way, way over their home value. And if they don't have a stroke right there, kick them out to their kids and repo the place. 

You really have to admire some people their creativeness in screwing other people out of their life's savings, then blame them for it.


----------



## sptrawler (4 October 2017)

Yep, Singapore's being doing it for a while, if you get up early you see all the seniors sweeping the pathways.
No welfare there until your money has run out, I bet the establishment would love to bring it in here.


----------



## wayneL (5 October 2017)

Just another example of the enemy within:

http://www.news.com.au/finance/work...s/news-story/af58b0b60a2b6d391624db96b9edd8a7

SNIP...TV NETWORK CBS has sacked a legal executive who said she was “not even sympathetic” to the victims of the worst mass shooting in US history because they were probably “Republican gun toters”.

Hayley Geftman-Gold made the comments in a now-deleted discussion thread on Facebook, first reported by The Daily Caller website.


----------



## SirRumpole (5 October 2017)

luutzu said:


> I'm a bit surprised international students paid that much attention in class.




You're right. They pay for their degrees, so why do any actual work ? They can always pay someone to sit their exams too.


----------



## basilio (5 October 2017)

wayneL said:


> Just another example of the enemy within:
> 
> http://www.news.com.au/finance/work...s/news-story/af58b0b60a2b6d391624db96b9edd8a7
> 
> ...





So Wayne, while we are looking at "the enemy within"  how about a call out to the extreme right wing conspiracy nutters who created a new fictious shooter in Vegas who just happened to be a liberal democrat voting Obama loving dude.

As a consequence of this delibrate dribble other believing idiots have been sending death threats to this poor guy.

*Trump-loving Gateway Pundit blames innocent “far left” man for Las Vegas massacre*
*The far-right blog spreads fake news yet again*
Matthew Sheffield10.03.2017•3:02 AM
Stephen Paddock is the man local police have accused of shooting up a country music festival in Las Vegas on Sunday. But in its haste to place blame for the massacre, far-right blog Gateway Pundit informed its readers otherwise.

Relying on unverified information posted on the internet, Gateway Pundit writer Joe Hoft wrote a post on Monday claiming that the shooter was "reportedly" Geary Danley, an Arkansas man who is not known to have been in the Las Vegas area.

In his article, Hoft — who describes himself as having "gained attention for his ability to accurately identify and predict outcomes before they take place" — characterized Danley as "a far left loon," citing his Facebook page which indicated he is a fan of various Democratic-oriented groups and television programs. After police officially named Paddock as the suspect, Hoft appears to have deleted his posting.

https://www.salon.com/2017/10/02/gateway-pundit-blog-blames-geary-danley-las-vegas-shooting/


----------



## basilio (5 October 2017)

If one wants to have serious look at the doom of Western Society how about considering the situation where Alt right conspiracists systematically destroy  any semblance of reality in our society ?

Latest example .. Saying the Las Vegas massacre is a hoax. (Remember this follows on calling out Sandy Hook massacre as a hoax et al)

* Las Vegas survivors furious as YouTube promotes clips calling shooting a hoax *
‘When I see my wife fighting for her life with a gunshot wound to her chest and my daughter was also shot, it’s pretty conclusive evidence that it did happen’




YouTube said the video shown above did not violate its standards. Photograph: YouTube

*Shares*
1763

Sam Levin in San Francisco
 
Wednesday 4 October 2017 23.19 BST   Last modified on Wednesday 4 October 2017 23.20 BST

YouTube is promoting conspiracy theory videos claiming that the Las Vegas mass shooting was a hoax, outraging survivors and victims’ families, in the latest case of tech companies spreading offensive propaganda.

It’s only been days since a gunman inside the Mandalay Bay hotel opened fire on a music festival, killing 58 people and injuring more than 500. But videos questioning whether the shooting really happened and claiming that the government has lied about basic facts have already garnered millions of views on YouTube and are continuing to run rampant.

It appears YouTube is actively helping these videos reach wide audiences. Searching for “Las Vegas shooting videos” immediately leads to a wide range of viral videos suggesting that law enforcement and others have purposefully deceived the public. Some label the tragedy a “false flag”, a term conspiracy theorists typically use to refer to mass shootings they say are staged by the government to advance gun control.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/04/las-vegas-shooting-youtube-hoax-conspiracy-theories

https://www.fastcompany.com/4047656...are-already-littered-with-conspiracy-theories


----------



## wayneL (5 October 2017)

There is somewhat of a chasm between individuals who are conspiracy theorists and loons (of which exist on both sides of the spectrum) and people like Ms Geftman-Gold who are in positions of influence and power and commenting on a corporate site,  bas.

Which really serves to illustrate your role in culturally Marxist propaganda. 

Tell me, what is your opinion of her remarks.


----------



## basilio (5 October 2017)

For a little Alt Reality dip your toes into the world where the Las Vegas mass shooting was a fake event somehow orchestrated by the "deep" state ? 

Ask yourself what sort of society do we have that enables this level of public insanity. 

Have a look at some of the comments and consider how many people is this madness infecting ?


----------



## PZ99 (5 October 2017)

@wayneL  I think she's a grub for those comments and I said it in the other thread.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/threads/asf-breaking-news.12478/page-54#post-961679


----------



## Tisme (5 October 2017)

basilio said:


> For a little Alt Reality dip your toes into the world where the Las Vegas mass shooting was a fake event somehow orchestrated by the "deep" state ?
> 
> Ask yourself what sort of society do we have that enables this level of public insanity.




I think all that has moved on to "False Flags" as being the motive behind the killings.  Apparently it's not possible for someone to go troppo in the USA and act out insanity


----------



## wayneL (5 October 2017)

wayneL said:


> Tell me, what is your opinion of her remarks.



Basilio? 

Interested in your opinion here, not deflections.


----------



## luutzu (5 October 2017)

basilio said:


> For a little Alt Reality dip your toes into the world where the Las Vegas mass shooting was a fake event somehow orchestrated by the "deep" state ?
> 
> Ask yourself what sort of society do we have that enables this level of public insanity.
> 
> Have a look at some of the comments and consider how many people is this madness infecting ?






Dam!

They really know how to muddied the water don't they.

Read that a new poll found the yanks have lately believe the mainstream media more because Trump called them "fake news" and staged these fights with the media. 

All commercial/mainstream media follow a code of conduct - profit, sponsorship and access - there is no way in heck they're going to give that up for truth, justice and.. .well, maybe the American way. 

Saw a few instances of live interview where the guest or the new recruit journalist goes off the script, talk about climate change, or natural disaster killing people while the gov't does nothing... their mic just gets cut off "due to technical difficulties". 

And what the heck is wrong with these politicians... they all follow the same script about debating the issue whenever a tragedy happen.

When hurricanes wipe floods and kill people: This is not not the time to debate climate change and carbon emission. This is a tragedy and we all must unite to help the victims. Debates can wait.

After a mass shooting: Now is not the time to politicise tragedies. We must unite to help the victims.

Sending hope and prayers. Focus on the more important issues like tax cuts; repeal a healthcare system that somehow managed to help a handful more people than previous.


----------



## basilio (5 October 2017)

wayneL said:


> Basilio?
> 
> Interested in your opinion here, not deflections.




Che.. ?
1) A stupid, sxit comment. Had it's immediate consequences.
2) Deflections ?  You open a thread on the Doom of Western Civilisation and somehow the fact that a coterie of Alt Right commentaters continually turn public massacres into staged government productions is a "deflection" ?


----------



## wayneL (5 October 2017)

basilio said:


> Che.. ?
> 1) A stupid, sxit comment. Had it's immediate consequences.
> 2) Deflections ?  You open a thread on the Doom of Western Civilisation and somehow the fact that a coterie of Alt Right commentaters continually turn public massacres into staged government productions is a "deflection" ?



Oh brother.

You're worried about 30 yo virgins living in their parents basement with nothing better to do than think about grassy knolls.

I'm talking about the SHY, Gillian Triggs and Soros' of this world. Excuse my incredulity at your argument's irrelevance.


----------



## crackajack2 (9 October 2017)

animals breed like flies to **** its always been that way.


----------



## IFocus (13 October 2017)

wayneL said:


> Oh brother.
> 
> I'm talking about the SHY, Gillian Triggs and Soros' of this world. Excuse my incredulity at your argument's irrelevance.




Common Wayne I know you like to slag off the left but extremes exist on both sides of the equation and let's be honest they borrow each other's methods and ideologies.

What do you want to defend Holocaust deniers maybe some of the nice folks walking around with flaming torches saying Jews won't  replace us or forget to mention the Koch brothers and any other number of nasties.

No one here including you are in that realm.


----------



## wayneL (13 October 2017)

IFocus said:


> Common Wayne I know you like to slag off the left but extremes exist on both sides of the equation and let's be honest they borrow each other's methods and ideologies.
> 
> What do you want to defend Holocaust deniers maybe some of the nice folks walking around with flaming torches saying Jews won't  replace us or forget to mention the Koch brothers and any other number of nasties.
> 
> No one here including you are in that realm.



Mate,  this is a major part of my irritation at the excesses of the left.  It will inevitably give rise to the extreme right.... and that is exactly what is happening.


----------



## moXJO (13 October 2017)

I agree with wayne.
The lefts BS brings out the far right in greater numbers.


----------



## luutzu (14 October 2017)

Democracy Now! The War and Peace Report.

They don't report much peace though. It's quite enlightening, but depressing.

The first 7 minutes show how Trump is screwing everybody who's poor, sick, colored, old, need help after a few hurricanes.

Get this, Trump's US is _lending _money to Puerto Rico to help it paid for the hurricane disaster. It's an American territory, its people are American citizens, but doesn't look like he's invoking that national disaster clause to open up disaster relief funding. 

Then there's a good 'ol prison warden complaining about the release of non-violent offenders. They're the good ones, he said; the prison can use them to clean, cook, change car oils, work outside of prison... (all for $1 a day or something), and you're releasing them? 

It's like a comedy.


----------



## Wysiwyg (14 October 2017)

luutzu said:


> The first 7 minutes show how Trump is screwing everybody who's poor, sick, colored, old, need help after a few hurricanes.



It is more noticaeable "America First" is bcoming just that. The dependence on U.S. money for help is becoming less automatic. The withdrawal from UNESCO (Director General graduated from the Moscow State Institute of International Relations, preparing under the control of the KGB) due to anti Israel sentiment. Threat to withdraw from North American free trade agreements. Corporate tax breaks. Repatriation of O.S. earnings 


> “We expect that trillions of dollars will come back on shore and will be reinvested here in the United States, for capital goods and job creation,” Mnuchin said.





> Get this, Trump's US is _lending _money to Puerto Rico to help it paid for the hurricane disaster. It's an American territory, its people are American citizens, but doesn't look like he's invoking that national disaster clause to open up disaster relief funding.



He meant United States First, America second.

A not happy Trump said U.S. paid off Iran with 1.3 billion and flew 400 million directly to aid prisoner release. Tough Trumpy will not be appeasing the Iranians from now on by the sound of it.


> The Obama administration said Wednesday it paid $1.3 billion in interest to Iran in January to resolve a decades-old dispute over an undelivered military sale, two days after allowing $400 million in cash to fly to Tehran.


----------



## IFocus (14 October 2017)

wayneL said:


> Mate,  this is a major part of my irritation at the excesses of the left.  It will inevitably give rise to the extreme right.... and that is exactly what is happening.






moXJO said:


> I agree with wayne.
> The lefts BS brings out the far right in greater numbers.




Wow that's an argument I hadn't ever considered.

The state of mainstream left politics these days world wide is way further to the right side than ever.

Labor in Australia looks much more like the Menzies government than Whitlam's.

The real left or social progressives have pretty much been stripped of any real power more than ever.
Unions have been progressively  neutered effectively to a point where the only effective organisations left have always been considered right wing within the labour movement.

You have the situation where the lowest paid have been stripped of OT rates by a process started by the Labor party (that fool Shorten) go figure that one out. All the while tax cuts are given to corporations.

In the 70's this would have led to storming of the gates of parliament now goes through with barely a whimper. The campaign by conservatives to hobble the masses while serving their sponsors have been very effective. 

What has also changed is the business model of media peddling the poor me I am being victimised to feed prejudices like Fox News/Freinds, Bolt etc. And they are making a motza from it. 

Stories now come out of the USA where retired parents that have Fox on all the time are now always angry when their kids ring them up.

Here the SSM thing is being obfuscated by claiming it will impact religious freedoms what rubbish but its getting a great run.


----------



## luutzu (14 October 2017)

Wysiwyg said:


> It is more noticaeable "America First" is bcoming just that. The dependence on U.S. money for help is becoming less automatic. The withdrawal from UNESCO (Director General graduated from the Moscow State Institute of International Relations, preparing under the control of the KGB) due to anti Israel sentiment. Threat to withdraw from North American free trade agreements. Corporate tax breaks. Repatriation of O.S. earnings



"America First" is a slogan to fool American patriots who aren't up to date with the news.

It tells the struggling (White) Americans that they're hurting because previous presidents (aka Hussein Obama) did not put America first; was working for the Muslims. That and all the foreign aid, the refugees, the Muslims in America not changing their colour, the Muslims in the Middle East being trouble makers forcing American love of liberty to have to send its arsenal over there and blow the place up (to keep the peace)... 

Well, no more now that the billionaire next door (and patriot, who got Daddy to find an excuse for him to not go to war) Trump is in charge. Well... the war must still go on in the Middle East - he'll just have a new and brilliant idea of getting the Muslims to pay for it, you know, something that's never been done, wasn't even thought of 

NAFTA was designed under Bush the Elder, Billy Clinton put it into effect because the guy in the White House all do what they're told. It was not a free trade deal, simply permitting the transfer of labour and manufacturing from the US to cheaper, less regulated Mexican labour. 

Those corporate OS earnings, I've read, are literally sitting in the corp's American bank account. It's not "overseas"... it's just registered to an overseas subsidiary. So giving them a tax break so they would bring it back to reinvest... that's a joke. 






Wysiwyg said:


> He meant United States First, America second.




Are you referring to PR not being part of the US? The people on that colony are American citizens. It's an American territory. The PR people pay taxes to the US, served in all its wars. 

I guess that's why Trump is lending them money. Could be worst, he might not lend anything.



Wysiwyg said:


> A not happy Trump said U.S. paid off Iran with 1.3 billion and flew 400 million directly to aid prisoner release. Tough Trumpy will not be appeasing the Iranians from now on by the sound of it.




That's false. The money was never the US's to be given back. Those money belong to the Iranian government under the US-backed Shah of Iran. When the Islamic revolution overthrew the Shah, the American didn't like their puppet being overthrown like that so they frozen all Iranian assets.

So the money being returned were Iranian. It's part of the nuclear deal.

The deal might be revoked and sanctions reimposed on Iran. Guess who benefit from that? Israel. They've always been urging American presidents to start a war with Iran - removing their only potential target that could actually fight back. 

This might not go down well with the other parties to that agreement. The Chinese, Russians, Germans and Europe do actually want to trade and buy Iranian oil.


There's a recent interview with Ai Wei Wei - a Chinese artist and activist who don't like the comrades too much - he was saying that the Chinese leadership love Trump. Trump and his idiotic policies is ruining the only country that could put up a challenge to its ambition.

During the Spring and Autumn period in China, Lord Shang of Ch'i fought a battle against a competing state. He captured the prince leading the invading army but decided to let him go. Whereupon the prince thank him for remembering their childhood days of learning together from the same master... 

No, I did not release you for childhood sentimentality. I release you back because you're an idiot and your father will make you crown prince one day. I like an idiot to rule over that kingdom for now.


----------



## wayneL (14 October 2017)

IFocus,

Its not the economic agenda bringing out the neo nazies, it's the sociocultural agenda.


----------



## Tisme (14 October 2017)

wayneL said:


> IFocus,
> 
> Its not the economic agenda bringing out the neo nazies, it's the sociocultural agenda.




Yesteryear we were implored to strive for meritorious excellence in achievement, now days we are being implored to hold ourselves back and park our ambition while we focus on making minorities feel good and reward them with discriminatory favourtism.

We are ripe for the picking by overseas enterprise looking for easy assets and easy profit, while we have our heads turned towards a false horizon.


----------



## luutzu (14 October 2017)

Tisme said:


> Yesteryear we were implored to strive for meritorious excellence in achievement, now days we are being implored to hold ourselves back and park our ambition while we focus on making minorities feel good and reward them with discriminatory favourtism.
> 
> We are ripe for the picking by overseas enterprise looking for easy assets and easy profit, while we have our heads turned towards a false horizon.




I guess we (White people) should follow Trump's advise and put ourselves first again.


----------



## SirRumpole (14 October 2017)

luutzu said:


> I guess we (White people) should follow Trump's advise and put ourselves first again.




Nah, just tell minorities that they are in the same boat with the rest of us and to start pulling their weight and stop whinging.


----------



## luutzu (14 October 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Nah, just tell minorities that they are in the same boat with the rest of us and to start pulling their weight and stop whinging.




Unless the minority is in the economically top 1%, every other minority either pull their own weight or pull a few times as much just to stay alive. Why? Because no country or civilisation ever do much for the minorities - that's why they're still the minorities. 

We somehow think that a country become rich because of its rich industrialists and financiers. You know, the Ford, Rockefeller, Gates, Musk, Bezos, Rhinehart, Packer... build great businesses that employ people and make (name of country) great.

That's mostly bs.

The small bit that prevent such fantasies from being total bs would be the named giants did some initial work and got a few lucky breaks. If the luck they strike is big enough, it leads on to fortunes through exploitation of the work forces, exploiting tax and government incentives; exploiting the influence that money can buy. 

I've read enough business bio to know. 

Heard that the Walton family [of Wal-Mart], will be receiving some $50B+ tax cuts from Trump's latest proposal. Trump gave his family an estimated $1.4B from that same law too... So much for whining and pulling their own weight.... and oh, all that while the law hike 20% tax increase on the lowest earning Americans [from 10% to 12%]


----------



## Smurf1976 (15 October 2017)

Australian politics is in a very sad state and the same seems to apply elsewhere.

The Greens seem to have openly turned into what many long suspected. They're not keen on democracy it would seem. As for the environment well that's become a sideline at best.

Labor no longer represents the workers to any meaningful extent. They've moved further to the Right than the Liberals were a generation or two ago.

The Liberals represent not much at all so far as I can tell. A broad concept that says governments shouldn't actually govern seems to sum it up. Even big business isn't being looked after to the extent that they need some actual governing in the national interest.

Most Australians of voting age are either employees, small business owners or retired. None of those seem to be truly represented by anyone these days. It has become a case of voting for the least bad option rather than something that's actually good.

Oh for the days when we had politicians who at least stood for something and made an effort.

At the federal level Keating versus Hewson was the last time there was serious debate about matters of importance which captured the attention of the public.

At the state level Jim Bacon (Labor) gave it a pretty good shot here in Tas 1998 - 2004 (died unfortunately) and managed to get both the unions and business on the same page. Never thought I'd see that, the business lobby encouraging people to vote Labor, but Jim managed to inspire confidence and so it happened.

Since  then I can't think of anyone in any state with any real vision beyond looking to cover their own blunders. 

WA arguing about GST - they've got a point but ultimately it's just looking for a way out after spending like there's no tomorrow when the mining boom money was rolling in. They knew the formula, they knew that mining booms never last, and now they're looking for a way out.

SA and their big battery might be considered visionary and in a way it is. Truth is though that from an engineering perspective they're spending a fortune of taxpayer funds on batteries and diesel-fired generators to produce a total of 375MW of power and then at high cost and with high emissions from the diesels. Sounds maybe OK until you realised they scrapped a perfectly good, more efficient and far more economical 540MW power station just months before panicking and spending a fortune trying to keep the lights on. Another government spending big $ to cover its own blunders.

Sadly it's the same basic pattern elsewhere and so we see Brexit, Trump and so on as the masses seek a solution no matter how dubious and unlikely to work it may seem.

Keep this nonsense up long enough and I expect we'll see the rise of a far Right influence which in due course gains power. Think "like Hitler" sort of  far Right and no matter what the details the outcome won't be good.


----------



## moXJO (15 October 2017)

Smurf1976 said:


> Keep this nonsense up long enough and I expect we'll see the rise of a far Right influence which in due course gains power. Think "like Hitler" sort of  far Right and no matter what the details the outcome won't be good.




Abbott's giving it a good crack.


----------



## moXJO (15 October 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Nah, just tell minorities that they are in the same boat with the rest of us and to start pulling their weight and stop whinging.



You seen any minorities asking for more on these forums. They are generally used as political tools by those with an agenda. Even ssm was to try and circumvent labors push.
Minorities aren't the problem,  the political class and all the lobbyists are.


----------



## Wysiwyg (15 October 2017)

Smurf1976 said:


> Sadly it's the same basic pattern elsewhere and so we see Brexit, Trump and so on as the masses seek a solution no matter how dubious and unlikely to work it may seem.



You forgot to mention the $122 million for a survey of critical national imperative. On the world insanity streak, maybe the interconnectedness nowadays assists the spread of bad news and stupidity quickly and in more graphic detail. Like a chain reaction of varying intensities depending on the state of ones existence.


----------



## SirRumpole (15 October 2017)

moXJO said:


> You seen any minorities asking for more on these forums. They are generally used as political tools by those with an agenda. Even ssm was to try and circumvent labors push.
> Minorities aren't the problem,  the political class and all the lobbyists are.




Well we get people of a certain religion who fly the racist flag whenever someone points out that their beliefs are sexist and supressive of human rights and infer that we should respect that religion regardless of the fact that it itself opposes freedom of religion and keeps its followers chained with threats and intimidation.


----------



## SirRumpole (15 October 2017)

Smurf1976 said:


> Keep this nonsense up long enough and I expect we'll see the rise of a far Right influence which in due course gains power. Think "like Hitler" sort of far Right and no matter what the details the outcome won't be good.




Their certainly needs to be a new centre type party that doesn't have prior mistakes to keep defending or old scores to settle but I don't see one out there I'm afraid.


----------



## moXJO (15 October 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Well we get people of a certain religion who fly the racist flag whenever someone points out that their beliefs are sexist and supressive of human rights and infer that we should respect that religion regardless of the fact that it itself opposes freedom of religion and keeps its followers chained with threats and intimidation.





SirRumpole said:


> Well we get people of a certain religion who fly the racist flag whenever someone points out that their beliefs are sexist and supressive of human rights and infer that we should respect that religion regardless of the fact that it itself opposes freedom of religion and keeps its followers chained with threats and intimidation.



We get the odd one now and then. But who swoops in to direct the narrative? 
Generally white feminists, white activists or politicians. 
Religion is another thing again.


----------



## IFocus (15 October 2017)

wayneL said:


> IFocus,
> 
> Its not the economic agenda bringing out the neo nazies, it's the sociocultural agenda.




Sorry I am late here got some examples to debate?


----------



## SirRumpole (16 October 2017)

IFocus said:


> Sorry I am late here got some examples to debate?




Immigration, Hanson, "no more Muslims" .


----------



## Tisme (16 October 2017)

It's a worldwide phenomenon :
http://kingideas.co/2017/03/rape-victim-forced-to-parent-with-rapist/



> *In the United States, there are many state laws that force mothers to share their children who were conceived as a result of being raped.*
> 
> One such case is 18-year-old Noemi, whose home state of Nebraska has a law that forces her to let the rapist who fathered her baby daughter share custody with the child, reports CNN.
> 
> ...


----------



## notting (17 October 2017)

Whilst *China has been distracting you with* it's Noth Korean outpost lieutenant - *Kim Jong Un* making lots of noise, China was muscle-flexing in Doklam Plateau in western Bhutan which is *yet another*  "manifestation” of the vicious communist dictatorships 100 year plan to take over the world, a policy formulated in 1955 which includes it's decades-old strategy of *"encircling” India*, Lobsang Sangay, head of Tibetan Government-in-Exile, said.

Sangay told DH that what had happened at Doklam along China-Bhutan border this year had earlier happened with Tibet in 1959.

He was obviously referring to Chinese People's Liberation Army's invasion and continuing brutal occupation of Tibet.

"In early 1950s, the then Chairman of People’s Republic of China termed Tibet as China’s right hand palm whereas Ladakh, Nepal, Sikkim, Bhutan and Arunachal Pradesh are its five fingers. Therefore, *China’s flexing of its military muscle is a manifestation of its decades old strategy to encircle and weaken India*,” said the Sikyong of the Tibetan Government-in-Exile.

The Indian Army and the Chinese People's Liberation Army recently had a 72-day-long face-off at Doklam Plateay near India-China-Bhutan tri-junction boundary point.

The face-off started on June 16 when *the Chinese PLA personnel started constructing a road on Doklam Plateau* along the disputed China-Bhutan border, brushing aside the protests by Royal Bhutanese Army soldiers posted nearby. Indian Army intervened on June 18 and sent soldiers to stop the Chinese PLA personnel from constructing the road. This led to the face-off that finally ended on August 28.

Though the military face-off between the two neighbors at Doklam Plateau ended, the *reports indicated fresh build-up by Chinese People's Liberation Army* near India-China-Bhutan tri-junction boundary point.

"The Doklam situation is consistent with a troubling pattern of Chinese policy of trying to alter the basic facts on the ground,” said Sangay, a second generation refugee from Tibet, who in April 2011 elected to the top office of the Central Tibetan Administration or the Tibetan government-in-exile based at Dharamshala in Himachal Pradesh. He was elected for a second term last year.

"*China’s nationalistic design is increasingly becoming apparent; with the South China Sea, East China Sea, Scarborough Island and, increasing border incursions across the MacMahon line and now at Doklam,”* he told DH in an interview.


----------



## IFocus (21 October 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Immigration, Hanson, "no more Muslims" .




Immigration / Muslims is always a discussion and some.

Australia depends on immigration for many reasons a lot being of being of a high complexity and conflicting aims.

Who do we allow in.........Muslims?

Certainly issues around radicalisation and integration of followers of the Sunni Sect.


----------



## Wysiwyg (21 October 2017)

Ideologies, dress, culture, religious law are worlds apart. Middle East is more aligned.


----------



## SirRumpole (21 October 2017)

IFocus said:


> Australia depends on immigration for many reasons a lot being of being of a high complexity and conflicting aims.




We used to depend on immigration to supply people to work on the farms, in the factories and in the mines, but with increasing automation and technology we don't need them any more and a lot will end up unemployed.

Low wages growth indicates an over supply of labour, the solution to that should be obvious.


----------



## Tisme (22 October 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> We used to depend on immigration to supply people to work on the farms, in the factories and in the mines, but with increasing automation and technology we don't need them any more and a lot will end up unemployed.
> 
> Low wages growth indicates an over supply of labour, the solution to that should be obvious.





It indicates poor governance in balancing the three basic factors of production  Labour, Land and Capital.

The failure rate of delivering infrastructure, the success in closing factories, the cash debt of $500bn, etc points to a govt more interested in rule than national build.

When the economy started tanking the USA prime pumped just like us. The USA increased its industry and we reduced ours. The USA has a shortage of mobile skilled labour, we don't need much skilled labour because we don't have any real scale industry.


----------



## SirRumpole (22 October 2017)

Tisme said:


> When the economy started tanking the USA prime pumped just like us. The USA increased its industry and we reduced ours. The USA has a shortage of mobile skilled labour, we don't need much skilled labour because we don't have any real scale industry.




It's difficult to see where we will be going without a genuine manufacturing capability. A service economy probably with most of the jobs going to child/old age/ disability support and selling imported goods.

There isn't much point in people getting university qualifications in science or engineering unless they intend to live and work overseas, and we therefore lose the tax revenue that we invested in their education.


----------



## Tisme (23 October 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> It's difficult to see where we will be going without a genuine manufacturing capability. A service economy probably with most of the jobs going to child/old age/ disability support and selling imported goods.
> 
> There isn't much point in people getting university qualifications in science or engineering unless they intend to live and work overseas, and we therefore lose the tax revenue that we invested in their education.




A vast amount of "engineers" find themselves behind a desk regurgitating company and association specifications and drafting. They are basically doing half of certIII occupation, never even getting to put their hand to anything..... they tend to turn into schoolgirl pedants because of the sheltered workshops they call workplace.

Science degrees might get you a job in high school teaching, but without govt departments the pond is very small.


----------



## SirRumpole (23 October 2017)

Tisme said:


> Science degrees might get you a job in high school teaching, but without govt departments the pond is very small.




Lets hope our new Space Agency sucks up some science and engineering graduates.


----------



## Tisme (22 November 2017)

https://theconversation.com/the-con...te-in-university-humanities-departments-87750


> A number of NSW and ACT universities are vying for the opportunity to access funding from the Ramsay Centre for Western Civilisation, which aims to “revive” liberal arts and the humanities in university education in Australia.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## SirRumpole (22 November 2017)

Tisme said:


> https://theconversation.com/the-con...te-in-university-humanities-departments-87750




I suppose it's better than having a branch office of the propaganda department of another country funding our unis.

http://sydney.edu.au/confucius_institute/


----------



## wayneL (17 April 2018)




----------



## basilio (17 April 2018)

That was a very thought provoking clip from Jordan Peterson. I think the concept of a "Noble Story" as a basis for society makes some sense. I suppose I wonder what that noble story was in the past, ( was it in fact that noble ?) and what type of story could be constructed and  effectively sold in the present society.


----------



## luutzu (17 April 2018)

wayneL said:


>





Na. Churchill was wrong there. And he ought to know better having been at the head of an imperial power in decline.

The decline and fall of Western civilisations, as with any civilisation, will not be due to the lack of a good story to tell. But will be due to imperial hubris. Military over-reach. Way too many useless foreign adventures.


----------



## basilio (17 April 2018)

luutzu said:


> Na. Churchill was wrong there. And he ought to know better having been at the head of an imperial power in decline.
> 
> The decline and fall of Western civilisations, as with any civilisation, will not be due to the lack of a good story to tell. But will be due to imperial hubris. Military over-reach. Way too many useless foreign adventures.




That's a bit brutal Luutzu!! But on reflection makes sense.
I still think that a good cohesive  worthwhile narrative in a society can be valuable in terms of a unifying force. Having said that  I struggle to see what that could be today.

If I had to offer one theme it would be Renewal of the Earth. Practically speaking there is zero chance we can survive  as a structured society on this planet if we continue to overuse our resources and effectively destroy the infrastructure that supports all life. Maybe that is the "cause" ?


----------



## luutzu (18 April 2018)

basilio said:


> That's a bit brutal Luutzu!! But on reflection makes sense.
> I still think that a good cohesive  worthwhile narrative in a society can be valuable in terms of a unifying force. Having said that  I struggle to see what that could be today.
> 
> If I had to offer one theme it would be Renewal of the Earth. Practically speaking there is zero chance we can survive  as a structured society on this planet if we continue to overuse our resources and effectively destroy the infrastructure that supports all life. Maybe that is the "cause" ?




Oh. I actually agree with you. I also think that a "Noble Story" is important for society, passing on from one generation to another heroic deeds and all that. 

But such stories can be fictional. And they often are. So if there's no noble deeds to tell, people will just make them up. No end of civilisation there. 

I guess Churchill might have meant an "honest" story. But na, any story is an honest one if it's accepted by the authority and written down in the history books.

---

Maybe the story we can tell our kids today could be, I don't know... to quote JFK's... we all breathe the same air; all cherished our children's future... we are all mortal. 

Seems the world today... or as policies and poverty are driving at it... doesn't really want that sense of unity, brotherhood of man and all that. I mean, heck, JFK is apparently a psycho warmonger like the best of them... and he's seen as a liberal and kind leader... Mainly from those fine speeches he gave.

Then there's Obama and his "no black america, no white america... just one America..." No red, no blue, just all awesome; brother's keepers and all that bs. 

The people want to believe it, want to see equality, equal opportunity and such. Hence they voted for him. But then get properly disappointed. 

Then there's Trump... going around the world using his presidential authority to personally pressed other countries to buy American arms, waging wars on everything and everyone but wealth and the rich. 

Bragging about bombing Syria, quoted by his UN envoy as America is "lock and loaded"... Jesus Christ.

What was I saying?     Long day.


----------



## explod (21 April 2018)

luutzu said:


> Maybe the story we can tell our kids today could be, I don't know... to quote JFK...
> 
> Then there's Trump... going around the world using his presidential authority to personally pressed other countries to buy American arms, waging wars on everything and everyone but wealth and the rich.
> 
> ...




*Russia Exposes British Lies on Skripal, but Trail Leads to US*

Moscow says it has proof that the agent used in the UK attack is a chemical weapon patented in the US. So was this a covert operation aimed at ratcheting up tensions between the West and Russia?

_M.K. BHADRAKUMAR_

The sensational case of the poisoning of the ex-MI6 agent and former Russian military intelligence colonel Sergei Skripal on March 4 in Salisbury, in the UK, is becoming more and more curious. Under a blinding spotlight from Moscow, the British allegation regarding a Russian hand in the poisoning of Skripal is getting exposed. An engrossing plot in big-power politics is also unfolding. There is stuff here for a Le Carre novel.

Are we witnessing a replay of the false flag Gulf of Tonkin attack of August 1964, the imaginary “incident” concocted by the US military to provide legal and political justification for deploying American forces in South Vietnam and for commencing open warfare against North Vietnam?"

https://www.strategic-culture.org/n...-british-lies-skripal-but-trail-leads-us.html


----------



## CanOz (21 April 2018)

No one trusts either side now...


----------



## Gringotts Bank (21 April 2018)

Real news will be impossible to distinguish from fake news within 10 years, imo.  The measures we use to make the distinction today will be gone.  All medias will be online.  When you switch on the TV, there will simply be no way to tell what's what or who's who.  When there's no trusted news source (since everything online can be be hacked and manipulated), society may crumble.  Just another way technology threatens to wipe out humanity.  Sweet dreams everyone.


----------



## bellenuit (21 April 2018)

explod said:


> *Russia Exposes British Lies on Skripal, but Trail Leads to US*
> 
> Moscow says it has proof that the agent used in the UK attack is a chemical weapon patented in the US. So was this a covert operation aimed at ratcheting up tensions between the West and Russia?
> 
> ...




Strategic Culture is very pro-russian and has connections to some Russian oligarch. When you go to their link, they also reference stuff from RT, a Putin controlled TV station.

I checked up on the allegations and there is nothing conclusive from what I can see.

_According to the Swiss lab’s report, the chemical formula used in the Salisbury attack has been in service in the US, the UK and other NATO countries._

That link brings you to Tass, another Russian News agency. I cannot find the report from the Swiss lab, Spiez Laborotories, that supposedly corroborates the allegation made by the Russians.

It is interesting that they allude to the Tonkin incident to show how the US is willing to stage incidents to justify some of it actions. A much more recent event would be their own actions in the Ukraine that they used and are using to try and destabilise and eventually take over that country.


----------



## luutzu (21 April 2018)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Real news will be impossible to distinguish from fake news within 10 years, imo.  The measures we use to make the distinction today will be gone.  All medias will be online.  When you switch on the TV, there will simply be no way to tell what's what or who's who.  When there's no trusted news source (since everything online can be be hacked and manipulated), society may crumble.  Just another way technology threatens to wipe out humanity.  Sweet dreams everyone.





So it'll be like the old news?


----------



## noirua (21 April 2018)

Western Society is doomed. I could not care less because my time on this planet will be up well before then.


----------



## explod (22 April 2018)

bellenuit said:


> Strategic Culture is very pro-russian and has connections to some Russian oligarch. When you go to their link, they also reference stuff from RT, a Putin controlled TV station.
> 
> I checked up on the allegations and there is nothing conclusive from what I can see.
> 
> ...




Most in the Ukraine favour Russia as an ally over the US who have their heads in to try and stop trade and gas flows to Europe:-

"There are also questions around America’s role in the Ukraine. After the country’s government made a trade policy u-turn, towards Russia rather than the west, Senator John McCain joined protesters in the capital. He said he was there “to support your just cause” and supported “a grassroots revolution”.

Later, a leaked phone conversation between the US Ambassador to Ukraine and the US Assistant Secretary of State hinted at extensive involvement. They spoke about the need to “midwife this thing” and said Arseniy Yatsenyuk was “the guy”, shortly before he became president.

The true extent to which America was actually involved in these cases may not be known for years."

https://www.channel4.com/news/factc...tory-of-meddling-in-other-countries-elections


----------



## bellenuit (22 April 2018)

explod said:


> Most in the Ukraine favour Russia as an ally over the US who have their heads in to try and stop trade and gas flows to Europe:-
> 
> "There are also questions around America’s role in the Ukraine. After the country’s government made a trade policy u-turn, towards Russia rather than the west, Senator John McCain joined protesters in the capital. He said he was there “to support your just cause” and supported “a grassroots revolution”.
> 
> ...




All I see there is behind the scenes work by the US to get a government elected who has Western interests at heart. Russia invaded, quite a difference.

If you think anything is going to come out of Russia, with pretty much all news agencies under Putin control and the opposition suppressed, that is in any way truthful then so be it. I am just surprised that you are willing to post Russian propaganda without doing any investigation of the source.

*Salisbury attack: Russian TV's claims about poisoning*

*https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43835774*


----------



## explod (22 April 2018)

bellenuit said:


> All I see there is behind the scenes work by the US to get a government elected who has Western interests at heart. Russia invaded, quite a difference.
> 
> If you think anything is going to come out of Russia, with pretty much all news agencies under Putin control and the opposition suppressed, that is in any way truthful then so be it. I am just surprised that you are willing to post Russian propaganda without doing any investigation of the source.
> 
> ...



So after the weapons of mass destruction affair you have faith in the western press.

And there is no doubt that the only time the US take note of anyone is when there's a quid in it for them.


----------



## luutzu (22 April 2018)

bellenuit said:


> All I see there is behind the scenes work by the US to get a government elected who has Western interests at heart. Russia invaded, quite a difference.
> 
> If you think anything is going to come out of Russia, with pretty much all news agencies under Putin control and the opposition suppressed, that is in any way truthful then so be it. I am just surprised that you are willing to post Russian propaganda without doing any investigation of the source.
> 
> ...




Soooo... the US only "help" democracy along while Russia/Soviet invades? 

Someone's been reading propaganda.


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## luutzu (22 April 2018)

This is worth a repeat.


----------



## bellenuit (22 April 2018)

explod said:


> So after the weapons of mass destruction affair you have faith in the western press.




The western press is not one homogenous entity. You get opinions from every angle and though it is difficult, one has to do one's best to establish what is true. I was aware long before the invasion of Iraq that there were issues with the weapons of mass destruction claim and I read about those issues from several western media outlets.

However, since Putin took control of all media and stifled the opposition in Russia, the Russian press (other than underground and banned sources) is one homogenous entity that proffers only one opinion, that of Putin and his henchmen.



> And there is no doubt that the only time the US take note of anyone is when there's a quid in it for them.




The US is a far from perfect society but that comment is just vacuous.


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## luutzu (22 April 2018)

explod said:


> Most in the Ukraine favour Russia as an ally over the US who have their heads in to try and stop trade and gas flows to Europe:-
> 
> "There are also questions around America’s role in the Ukraine. After the country’s government made a trade policy u-turn, towards Russia rather than the west, Senator John McCain joined protesters in the capital. He said he was there “to support your just cause” and supported “a grassroots revolution”.
> 
> ...




Not sure why the US/West pushing for war with Russia.

They're no longer Communist. They've lost the Cold War. They agreed to hand back their half of Germany. They wanted to join and ally with the US/West... I mean, it weren't long ago when Bush Jr. met Putin and look into his eyes right? Didn't Obama also got on well with Putin in his first year or so?

All this push towards Moscow, literally.. What country with a proper military and nuclear power would permit another superpower parking its bases at their gates? Flipping former colonies and allies against them. 

Why Russia when China looks to be a more serious threat to US global hegemony.


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## luutzu (22 April 2018)

bellenuit said:


> The western press is not one homogenous entity. You get opinions from every angle and though it is difficult, one has to do one's best to establish what is true. I was aware long before the invasion of Iraq that there were issues with the weapons of mass destruction claim and I read about those issues from several western media outlets.
> 
> However, since Putin took control of all media and stifled the opposition in Russia, the Russian press (other than underground and banned sources) is one homogenous entity that proffers only one opinion, that of Putin and his henchmen.
> 
> ...




The US intervene in other country's affairs out of kindness do they?

If so, they're the only country in the history of the world to do it. And that also mean their leadership are doubly generous towards foreigners seeing the polluted water in some 300 cities their citizens inhabits; cutting of public school funding, gutting of welfare or any sort of social safety net for the poor. 

Might want to check out "Manufacturing Consent". A great doco on a series of studies by Ed Herman and Noam Chomsky. 

Russian, Chinese and the likes of North Korea... their censure and propaganda are crude and obvious. 

It's in "open societies" where the press is "free" that's where propaganda is at its finest. 

I mean, how could there be propaganda when the press is free and people cant talk rubbish without being locked up. Right?

Easy... Those who does not matter (much) can talk all the crap they want. Those in "responsible" position better tow the line or else get a new job.

That and you let 6 multi-national corporations control some 90% of all the media. See who will carry the message and what gets distributed.


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## wayneL (23 April 2018)

My point exactly,  we need not fear Islamism,  China, Russia etc. 

We need to fear our own.

Ding ding. Ringing any bells folks? Post modernism,  cultural Marxism anyone?


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## dutchie (26 April 2018)

Conservatives unite!
Help save our western civilization.


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## orr (10 June 2018)

wayneL said:


> We need to fear our own.




It runs deep. The Machiavellian who put Tony Abbott in the driver seat for Ramsay bequest for the promotion of study Western Civilisation had no doubt that the donkey would drop the ball. 
Who needs a conspiracy when you can rely on incompetents...
The Opium wars we had the odium wars we have...


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## Tisme (10 June 2018)

wayneL said:


> There are plenty of self loathing whitefella. How the Marxists engineered that, I'm not quite sure,  but it was pretty clever.
> 
> Of course bas could very well be a brown skinned muslim on the LGBTI spectrum somewhere,  but I've got him pegged as whitey with a cultural death wish.




It's true some people are into self loathing and like to share it around to validate their penchant for social vandalism. 

They're the ones who pour a bucket over open conversations at parties, like a boy with two dicks, and convince themselves of a job well done, because nobody can be fagged engaging with bigots who hate the very community who took them and their parents in and gave them shelter from the ruins and moral turpitude of their motherlands.

They're as welcome a Hrundi V. Bakshi at a hollywood party IMV.


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## luutzu (10 June 2018)

Tisme said:


> It's true some people are into self loathing and like to share it around to validate their penchant for social vandalism.
> 
> They're the ones who pour a bucket over open conversations at parties, like a boy with two dicks, and convince themselves of a job well done, because nobody can be fagged engaging with bigots who hate the very community who took them and their parents in and gave them shelter from the ruins and moral turpitude of their motherlands.
> 
> They're as welcome a Hrundi V. Bakshi at a hollywood party IMV.




Maybe it's not self-loathing. More of a "not in my name" kind of protest. You know, telling people that if they want to rationalise the killing, butchering and warmongering on other people... First, stop doing that kind of crap; second, don't justify it; third, don't reckon that everybody must either be with them or is against them because nobody in their right mind would be with that kind of crimes - state sanctioned or otherwise.

As to those self-hating, ungrateful refos not knowing how good they're having it. Maybe they do know how good they're having it. Just that with great power comes great responsibility, as Uncle Ben would say.

Responsibility they modelled on those very few who stood up against war crimes, outraged at the indiscriminate killing of innocent people; and would risk going to prison to try and stop it. 

Maybe those who were lucky know that it was not the warmongers, the state stooges, its propagandists and psychotic strategists that saved their lives. It was the volunteers, the peace activists, the learned and passionate citizens who see through the garbage and refused to sit silently as millions are slaughtered and starved to death because some idiots in high places have a plan or two.


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## Tisme (11 June 2018)

luutzu said:


> Maybe it's not self-loathing. More of a "not in my name" kind of protest. You know, telling people that if they want to rationalise the killing, butchering and warmongering on other people... First, stop doing that kind of crap; second, don't justify it; third, don't reckon that everybody must either be with them or is against them because nobody in their right mind would be with that kind of crimes - state sanctioned or otherwise.
> 
> As to those self-hating, ungrateful refos not knowing how good they're having it. Maybe they do know how good they're having it. Just that with great power comes great responsibility, as Uncle Ben would say.
> 
> ...




I think you are going off track there, otherwise you are endorsing my concerns about "western society is doomed"?

I fail to see the heroics at white anting and betrayal of our society in favour of the slide down to communism, authoritarianism, communism. etc. 

Selling out our uniquity for the bullsh1t age of Aquarius attitude of the neo-marxists, will continue to add to thought control laws and eventually we'll need a permit to express any opinion that runs counter to what the authorities deem acceptable.


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## basilio (11 June 2018)

luutzu said:


> Maybe it's not self-loathing. More of a "not in my name" kind of protest. You know, telling people that if they want to rationalise the killing, butchering and warmongering on other people... First, stop doing that kind of crap; second, don't justify it; third, don't reckon that everybody must either be with them or is against them because nobody in their right mind would be with that kind of crimes - state sanctioned or otherwise.
> 
> As to those self-hating, ungrateful refos not knowing how good they're having it. Maybe they do know how good they're having it. Just that with great power comes great responsibility, as Uncle Ben would say.
> 
> ...




Worth saying again. Worth supporting in full.

I would have thought one of the key planks of Western Civilization was keeping a sense of justice, a sense of honour and a willingness to recognise evil, even when your own government is responsible, and call it out.

I would have also thought  a functioning Western Civilization still had an independent judicial system that was strong enough and willing to act on such criminal actions.


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## luutzu (12 June 2018)

Tisme said:


> I think you are going off track there, otherwise you are endorsing my concerns about "western society is doomed"?
> 
> I fail to see the heroics at white anting and betrayal of our society in favour of the slide down to communism, authoritarianism, communism. etc.
> 
> Selling out our uniquity for the bullsh1t age of Aquarius attitude of the neo-marxists, will continue to add to thought control laws and eventually we'll need a permit to express any opinion that runs counter to what the authorities deem acceptable.




Something more concrete: cited from David Harvey's lectures.

*US vs China's cement production.*
- China made more cement since 2012 than the entire of all US since 1900.







*DEBT: $70 Trillion US Dollars?*


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## Caveman (12 June 2018)

If you wish to keep western culture alive,then live it.


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## wayneL (13 June 2018)

Caveman said:


> If you wish to keep western culture alive,then live it.



Yeah but the great irony is that Western culture is now illegal in the West. Living it will get you arrested. </hyperboleincaseyoudidntgetit>


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## Caveman (13 June 2018)

wayneL said:


> </hyperboleincaseyoudidntgetit>



Like most of the rubbish you post.


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## wayneL (14 June 2018)

Caveman said:


> Like most of the rubbish you post.



You obviously didn't get it, not surprised really.


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## sptrawler (14 June 2018)

Tisme said:


> I think you are going off track there, otherwise you are endorsing my concerns about "western society is doomed"?
> 
> I fail to see the heroics at white anting and betrayal of our society in favour of the slide down to communism, authoritarianism, communism. etc.
> 
> Selling out our uniquity for the bullsh1t age of Aquarius attitude of the neo-marxists, will continue to add to thought control laws and eventually we'll need a permit to express any opinion that runs counter to what the authorities deem acceptable.




No we will just invent another course you can do, to get the appropriate license, that has to be renewed every two years.
Just contact the appropriate union, to find out details.


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## Tisme (14 June 2018)

sptrawler said:


> No we will just invent another course you can do, to get the appropriate license, that has to be renewed every two years.
> Just contact the appropriate union, to find out details.




IF only it was unions. The experience is that permits, licences, privacy  etc seems to be the domain of the LNP in QLD, but no side looks at remit or relief from the madness.


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## explod (15 June 2018)

The sad truth about the world


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## luutzu (17 June 2018)

The US and poverty.

Life expectancy falling; suicide up; highest childhood poverty; infant mortality now worst than China, China! 

And it just got a whole lot worst under Trump.


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## moXJO (17 June 2018)

luutzu said:


> The US and poverty.
> 
> Life expectancy falling; suicide up; highest childhood poverty; infant mortality now worst than China, China!
> 
> And it just got a whole lot worst under Trump.




Is that trend also up in Australia I wonder?


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## Tink (18 June 2018)

----------

https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson


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## luutzu (18 June 2018)

Tink said:


> ----------
> 
> https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson





You know when those neoCons uses the term "having access to", it doesn't mean the same thing we normal humans think it mean.

They mean that people can have those goodies, IF, they have the cash. Kinda like we all have access to mansion and a private jet... just have to have cash to access it.

So take that UN report... there are Americans in country America that still doesn't have access to the sewerage system. The technology is there, the mains is a few tens of kilometers away... So unless they have a spare $30,000 USD, they'll have to watch their sewage flow to their backyard.

The UN guy asked the councillors if there's any plan to extend the sewage system there. Nope. Is there any plan to help those impoverished Americans getting a loan or some assistance to help them? Freedom?



Shouldn't mix Western Civilisation with Capitalism.

Capitalism has always been around, in every other culture, long before democracy, women's rights, desegregation.

So today's "Western's" form of capitalism is just an attempt to rebrand an ancient form of predatory practises to associate itself with a more successful civil society. The moment that society is screwed up enough, they'll just latch onto another more successful one.

I was reading an interview with Charlie Munger. He's probably one of the nicer billionaires... at least ones who talks more publicly.

Guess what he criticise India for? Not its caste system, not its extreme poverty and social inequality. Na, he said India took the "worst" aspect of western democracy in just giving up digging for coals when a few idiots lay down and protest. He said that you wouldn't find that in China, they wouldn't stop "social progress" just because a few idiot villagers complaint about pollution, its affects in their health and livelihood.

--- That's not technically true nowadays. The comrades are starting to listen to the plebs about pollution and are taking steps to curbed it. 


So yea, even though "only" 10%, 15% of Americans are in poverty, they are a lot better off than, I don't know, if they were in India I guess.

Maybe try and ask those in poverty if they're better off...

Maybe they're happy, with a fridge. An empty one, but it look so modern and will definitely keep the food fresh if they can afford fresh food.


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## luutzu (18 June 2018)

moXJO said:


> Is that trend also up in Australia I wonder?




Haven't seen the stats. But I don't think we're as bad as the US, yet.

I mean, wage growth in Australia have been flatlining, like the US. We're privatising everything that makes good money and critical to daily life. Some of our politicians know the need to build infrastructure, if not to ease congestion then it at least create jobs... but not much is being done about it outside the CBD. So we're on the same page with the yanks there.

But we still have our healthcare, welfare system is probably still grudgingly paying those slackers grannies and orphans and students a few bucks.


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## moXJO (18 June 2018)

luutzu said:


> Haven't seen the stats. But I don't think we're as bad as the US, yet.
> 
> I mean, wage growth in Australia have been flatlining, like the US. We're privatising everything that makes good money and critical to daily life. Some of our politicians know the need to build infrastructure, if not to ease congestion then it at least create jobs... but not much is being done about it outside the CBD. So we're on the same page with the yanks there.
> 
> But we still have our healthcare, welfare system is probably still grudgingly paying those slackers grannies and orphans and students a few bucks.



I'm sure our homeless rate is trending up. I remember the US in the 90's and in some cities I couldn't take a step without another homeless person laying on the street. 
A lot of the guys were just down on their luck and ended up on the street. 
Its nothing new.


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## Tisme (18 June 2018)

moXJO said:


> I'm sure our homeless rate is trending up. I remember the US in the 90's and in some cities I couldn't take a step without another homeless person laying on the street.
> A lot of the guys were just down on their luck and ended up on the street.
> Its nothing new.




116.5k homeless in Oz 2016

Comparo : https://www.finder.com.au/homelessness-statistics-australia-vs-world

On decline in USA:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...m-a-national-disgrace/?utm_term=.c51486bbf1ff


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## moXJO (18 June 2018)

Tisme said:


> 116.5k homeless in Oz 2016
> 
> Comparo : https://www.finder.com.au/homelessness-statistics-australia-vs-world
> 
> ...



So we have more homeless as a % per pop than the US?


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## luutzu (18 June 2018)

moXJO said:


> So we have more homeless as a % per pop than the US?




Dam, about 2.5x more. Now that's messed up.


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## luutzu (18 June 2018)

moXJO said:


> I'm sure our homeless rate is trending up. I remember the US in the 90's and in some cities I couldn't take a step without another homeless person laying on the street.
> A lot of the guys were just down on their luck and ended up on the street.
> Its nothing new.




Homelessness is not new, but its rising numbers should be shocking in Western countries. Well, should be shocking in any country, just it's harder to believe in the economically more developed ones.

Here's something else though...

No American earning the minimum wage could afford to rent a 2-bedroom apartment. Or a 1-bedroom. Anywhere in the country, across all states.

Minimum wage earners aren't just HS kids either. They're also adults, with children, works at WalMart, Amazon, Maccas...

What is Trump doing about it?

His admin just raised public housing rentals by 50%; cut food stamps and health insurance to impoverished kids and seniors; ramping up the privatisation of public schools; increased the military budget by an extra $78B or so to some $750B per year.


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## sptrawler (18 June 2018)

moXJO said:


> Is that trend also up in Australia I wonder?




I think they stopped publishing suicide rates in Australia, quite a long time ago, from memory I think it is higher than car accident deaths.


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## moXJO (18 June 2018)

I don't know how much I trust some of the stats. A bit like the unemployment rate. Its skewed data.
I  find it hard to believe Australia has a higher homelessness rate than the US. 

But there is a homeless community living in tents hidden in the sand dunes of the beach where I live. Maybe I've just been ignoring the growing numbers.


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## sptrawler (18 June 2018)

The problem with a welfare system is, not everyone is honest, if everyone was honest it would work.


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## luutzu (18 June 2018)

sptrawler said:


> The problem with a welfare system is, not everyone is honest, if everyone was honest it would work.




I don't think any system should be designed on the assumption that people will be honest. Social security/welfare, was never designed on that basis either.


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## sptrawler (18 June 2018)

luutzu said:


> I don't think any system should be designed on the assumption that people will be honest. Social security/welfare, was never designed on that basis either.




If that is the case, why complain about welfare systems?


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## luutzu (18 June 2018)

sptrawler said:


> If that is the case, why complain about welfare systems?




I don't think people complain about welfare because they have checks and audits.

There is a lot of misinformation out there about welfare, how much is spent on it, who receives it. etc. 

It's all designed to pit one part of society against another, both of whom are often its most disadvantaged and vulnerable. Well, it also served to make those a-holes rich [note, not all rich are a-holes] who actually, honestly believe the poor are having it too good while they're working their butts off watching their trust funds not paying enough dividend for that yacht daddy promised.

Seriously, I have heard from welfare cheats [who are White if you could believe that] talking about other welfare recipients as underserving, drugged out lazy, no good leeches. 

As to capitalists... I read a fair number of business biographies... Jesus man, the kind of welfare those entrepreneurs get from government makes the Queen and all her royal offsprings looks like a typical refugee family living off of welfare.


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## sptrawler (19 June 2018)

luutzu said:


> I don't think people complain about welfare because they have checks and audits.
> 
> There is a lot of misinformation out there about welfare, how much is spent on it, who receives it. etc.
> 
> ...




As you know, I don't disagree with your sentiment, but I do disagree that most welfare recipients are incapable of doing meaningful work.
I know someone close to me, who has chosen the path of welfare dependence, over seeking meaningful employment.
Through him, I have been introduced to a sub set of people, who find it more attractive to have a meagre existence. Than be time poor, by being employed.
How do you remedy that? when they have a trade, that is in demand, but they would rather group together, pool resources and live on welfare.
Oh and by the way, they are white.


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## moXJO (19 June 2018)

sptrawler said:


> As you know, I don't disagree with your sentiment, but I do disagree that most welfare recipients are incapable of doing meaningful work.
> I know someone close to me, who has chosen the path of welfare dependence, over seeking meaningful employment.
> Through him, I have been introduced to a sub set of people, who find it more attractive to have a meagre existence. Than be time poor, by being employed.
> How do you remedy that? when they have a trade, that is in demand, but they would rather group together, pool resources and live on welfare.
> Oh and by the way, they are white.



I know plenty the same. Can work but don't want to.


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## luutzu (19 June 2018)

sptrawler said:


> As you know, I don't disagree with your sentiment, but I do disagree that most welfare recipients are incapable of doing meaningful work.
> I know someone close to me, who has chosen the path of welfare dependence, over seeking meaningful employment.
> Through him, I have been introduced to a sub set of people, who find it more attractive to have a meagre existence. Than be time poor, by being employed.
> How do you remedy that? when they have a trade, that is in demand, but they would rather group together, pool resources and live on welfare.
> Oh and by the way, they are white.




If people find it better to just live on meagre benefits from welfare, that is unfortunate but the blame can't solely be at their feet.

Make policies that inspire people, give them hope that if they work hard they will lift themselves up and prosper.

Make policies where they study, work hard, pay their taxes, do the right thing... then gets fired whenever, earn barely above subsistence. What do we expect people to do?


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## luutzu (19 June 2018)

moXJO said:


> I know plenty the same. Can work but don't want to.




Yea, there's quite a few over-achievers who make a lot of us look really bad 

Like that comedian Anh Do. I heard of kids whose mother hang out with his. Boy don't he make all of us bad. 

Did you know that he have a house by the ocean? For his studio. And his mum can invite her closest friends, like me, to vacation there? [Where's your beach house, son?]

Did you know that he writes? Paint? Meet famous stars? Produce TV shows? Write children's books? Tell funny jokes... they're not that funny.

What a multi talented overachieving clown that guy.


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## sptrawler (19 June 2018)

luutzu said:


> Yea, there's quite a few over-achievers who make a lot of us look really bad
> 
> Like that comedian Anh Do. I heard of kids whose mother hang out with his. Boy don't he make all of us bad.
> 
> ...




He is a really funny guy, went and saw him when he came to W.A top bloke.


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## Tisme (20 June 2018)

We are fast becoming the passive Eloi for the consumption of the Morlocks:


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## luutzu (20 June 2018)

sptrawler said:


> He is a really funny guy, went and saw him when he came to W.A top bloke.




Yea, he seems a decent bloke.


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## Macquack (22 June 2018)

moXJO said:


> But there is a homeless community living in tents hidden in the sand dunes of the beach where I live. Maybe I've just been ignoring the growing numbers.



Where is this free beachfront haven?

Sure you are not confusing "tents" with "camper trailers", and "homeless community" with a bunch of "grey nomads".


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## moXJO (23 June 2018)

Macquack said:


> Where is this free beachfront haven?
> 
> Sure you are not confusing "tents" with "camper trailers", and "homeless community" with a bunch of "grey nomads".



Na, no $200k winnebagos hanging around.

Its right near the local city as well. I took the dog for a walk that way and was chatting to a few of them. Some have jobs but went through divorce. Others were raging ice addicts and some had mental health issues.
Can't afford rent and no place to go.


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## cynic (23 June 2018)

Tisme said:


> We are fast becoming the passive Eloi for the consumption of the Morlocks:




Too true!

That clip amply demonstrates the horrendous plight of those poor misunderstood Morlocks, left to toil with ancient machinery, in their miserable, dark,  underground existence, whilst the Eloi get to enjoy a carefree overground existence, frolicking in the sunlight.

The sheer audacity of that horrible,nasty, centuries old, genocidal maniac (worse than any dictator ever known to man)!

To so hastily barge into the scene, armed with potent and arcane, pre-Utopian chicanery, viciously bullying the most vulnerable citizens (in all of Utopia), primarily via his dastardly exploitation of matchbox weaponry!!

Those unsuspecting Morlocks never stood a chance!!!

And to ponder on the spooky similarity, to that which is being experienced in current times, sends shivers up one's spine! 
(Could it be, that some lack the spine, requisite for the sensation, and subsequent recognition, of such fear?!)


----------

