# Stock Bashing - Real or Perceived?



## hangseng (16 June 2011)

I thought I might open this up for discussion. I have my own rather strong views on it.

Stock market forums are read and posted on from many countries by many posters all with their own agendas. Despite what some post on my current favoured stock PEN, I respect both positive and negative information, provided it is both factual and relevant.

Negative or positive information posted needs to be factual and it can form a part of any decision making, but not as the controlling influence. Ones own research should always be the deciding factor, but is that always the case?

Anyone thinking massively read forums stock market don't influence a stocks price need to read more in my opinion. I started to take a lot more notice a few years ago after reading the articles below amongst others.

PEN has certainly had more than its fair share over the last couple of years as I am sure other stocks have. Multinics often being the vehicle of choice.

Just have a little read of these for starters:



1. The Newest Jackass
http://stockbasher.com/newest-jackass

2. Investor Basics: Online Stock Message Board Bashers
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5716718/investor_basics_online_stock_message.html

3. Is the "Bashing" of a stock an essential part of the online investment landscape?
http://messageboardfools.com/bashers.htm

4. Confessions of a Phony Stock Basher
http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2007/12/confessions-of/

5. Exposing Stock Bashers
Confessions of a Paid Stock Basher
http://www.minamargroup.com/stock_bashers.php

6. http://stockbasher.com/basher-hunt
http://stockbasher.com/basher-hunt


Do forums influence a share price? IMO most definitely and ASX:CDU was evidence of it, both going up and down receiving a lot of publicity directed at two forums (not ASF).

Anyone else have opinions on this?


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## Gringotts Bank (16 June 2011)

I think it depends who does the bashing and how skillful they are at it.

However, people should be able to tell the difference between bashing and reality.  I think most people can make that distinction.  Sometimes there can be a mixture of bashing and fact in the one post, but again it should be possible to identify this style of post.  

*BUT, bashing is possibly just as bad a practice as up-ramping.*  Some would have been singing PEN's praises at 15c.  Had someone read the PEN thread on that day and bought in on the back of all the feel good posts, then that would have been disastrous.


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## Boggo (16 June 2011)

Gringotts Bank said:


> *BUT, bashing is possibly just as bad a practice as up-ramping.*  Some would have been singing PEN's praises at 15c.  Had someone read the PEN thread on that day and bought in on the back of all the feel good posts, then that would have been disastrous.




+1


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## burglar (16 June 2011)

Gringotts Bank said:


> .... would have been disastrous.




Agree with the cut and thrust of what you say. 

No-one twisted anyones arm to buy PEN!! 
Disastrous yes!

I am sorry for any who were slow to realize and slower still to sell.
 

But PEN always was, and is, a penny-dread until it becomes a profitable producer.


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## Country Lad (25 June 2011)

Gringotts Bank said:


> However, people should be able to tell the difference between bashing and reality.




Apparently not everybody, seeing there was perceived to be a need for this thread.

Most of the so called "bashing" in the PEN thread concentrated on 2 issues.  

Firstly, the fact that it had fallen so far, so steadily, and that a more prudent course of action may have been one of selling when the downtrend was obvious and buying back in at lower prices instead of watching the obvious erosion of capital by hanging on.  tech/a recognised this as a good seperate topic and started another thread for further discussion.

Secondly, the drop in uranium price and the possible slowdown in nuclear reactor construction following the problems in Japan.

Unfortunately, to those who are in love with a stock, (not just PEN, it happens with other stocks) an alternate view is seen as a slight on their ability, an insult upon their favaourite company and questioning of their research.  In reality, it is aimed at just putting another view. The result can be a HC type debate with the hype for the stock ever increasing.  Or, a bit like a footy debate with one being a one-eyed supporter.



Gringotts Bank said:


> *BUT, bashing is possibly just as bad a practice as up-ramping.*  Some would have been singing PEN's praises at 15c.  Had someone read the PEN thread on that day and bought in on the back of all the feel good posts, then that would have been disastrous.




In my mind, the constant barrow pushing of a stock is worse than the so called "bashing" particularly, as in the PEN case, the "bashing" is simply stating the facts that the price has been in steady decline.  

There are always the inexperienced people on any forum who will be tempted to follow what appears to be constant good news and who can not recognise it for what it really is and that is a biased view.  It would be far better if such a person did not buy a stock in downtrend based only on one or two posters pushing the stock.  Unfortunately, that appears to have occured on the PEN thread.

I think you are being a bit precious hanseng, to start this thread when 80% of your posts are constantly pushing PEN.  Which is worse, your constant and consistent covert attempts to have people buy PEN or a few posters stating the fact that it is in downtrend, care should be taken and a more accepted way to manage a stock is to sell it when in serious downtrend and buy back later.

Cheers
Country Lad


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## Garpal Gumnut (25 June 2011)

Country Lad said:


> Most of the so called "bashing" in the PEN thread concentrated on 2 issues.
> 
> Firstly, the fact that it had fallen so far, so steadily, and that a more prudent course of action may have been one of selling when the downtrend was obvious and buying back in at lower prices instead of watching the obvious erosion of capital by hanging on.  tech/a recognised this as a good seperate topic and started another thread for further discussion.
> 
> ...




Thanks Country Lad. I could not have replied to the disgraceful statements at the top of this thread, better myself.

Ramping is ramping. 

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. I feel for the poor bastards who bought in to PEN  at 15c.

gg


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## Slipperz (25 June 2011)

Personally I haven't got the time to bother with stocks I'm not interested in. Caveat emptor DYOR etc


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## TabJockey (25 June 2011)

I believe that the degree that PEN has been bashed on these forums is probably due to peoples frustration with HangSeng's eternally optimistic (read ramping) posts. When you see someone so one eyed and shamelessly in love with a stock, it just cries out for a counter bashing, even if you are not particularly interested in the stock.

I am not sure if this applies to other stocks, I have never ever seen a stock get heavily bashed, on any forum, and not deserve it.


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## Country Lad (25 June 2011)

Slipperz said:


> Personally I haven't got the time to bother with stocks I'm not interested in. Caveat emptor DYOR etc




Yes, mostly I am the same.  Look at a thread to see if I might have an interest and if not, mark it as read from then on.  

It was what I considered the constant ramping on the PEN thread which will mislead the inexperienced that sparked my interest there, not PEN itself. It is interesting to compare the PEN thread with that of ORD, another penny stock, where sans the constant posting by one person, it has progressed without any nonsense at all.

I joined this forum some 6 years ago and was disappointed with the nonsense then, so  didn't participate at all and didn't bother looking here again till a couple of months ago.  

I am similarly disappointed now that the type of ramping as occuring on the PEN thread is allowed to continue. I am used to a more mature attitude of a couple of private investment forums, but they consist mainly of experienced traders/investors and such behaviour as hangseng's would have been nipped in the bud very early on.

Cheers
Country Lad


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## TabJockey (26 June 2011)

Country Lad said:


> Yes, mostly I am the same.  Look at a thread to see if I might have an interest and if not, mark it as read from then on.
> 
> It was what I considered the constant ramping on the PEN thread which will mislead the inexperienced that sparked my interest there, not PEN itself. It is interesting to compare the PEN thread with that of ORD, another penny stock, where sans the constant posting by one person, it has progressed without any nonsense at all.
> 
> ...




I don't think we want much bid nipping at all. People should learn to be able to sort the wheat from the chaff because there is always going to be a mixture.


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## tech/a (26 June 2011)

As some of the uninformed could look at my postings in particular on PEN as PEN bashing I wish to make it CLEAR ----- my beef with the thread was in my view--- that's MY view--- the poor trading practices of those involved in the thread.
Still view it as the same.
PEN is a stock like any other.I would currently be long the stock as indicated on post 1510 on the thread.

Mind you the poor trading practices seen on the thread are by no means restricted to PEN traders.


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## hangseng (26 June 2011)

Birds of a feather flock together....or should that be "vultures"

Interesting I open up a genuine discussion and the same old posters turn it around into a personal attack on me.

I went through all the same garbage posted above when I held EXT 2 years prior to its masssive run up. I will say now though it is getting even more personal.

Countrylad for a start you select only a couple of issues with PEN relating to short term trading point of view. You totally ignore that PEN has had posters over the last 3 years (on various forums but mostly only two being here and one other well known forum) has had many posters come on with incredulous statements that are all now proven to be false and some blatant lies many using multinics for ntheir underhanded means and it continues.

Posters have come on stating these ridiculous comments:


Lance has no water so it will never produce using ISR - what a classic that was!

The grades are too low - posted without any knowledge of low cost ISR processing

Greenpeace are about to stage a major protest over Lance -  Garbage and blatant lie.

Earthquakes are now a major threat to the project - Really??? this by a poster that only a week ago stated PEN and every U stock is a massive buy and he will be _"buying with ears pinned back"_

Posters befriending other posters then going on a concerted and deliberate effort to defame the very sam people they befriended. - All personal attacks and all statements made now proven false with the said poster being found on two forums using multinics for this purpose.

This was a classic "PEN is a dog stock and will be left behind by all others such as BMN, BLR, PNN, WMT" etc - Well we now know PEN will be a producer and soon and all the glamour stocks were tossed into the dustbin or having to go back to the feasibility study drawing board.

 Uranium and the nuclear energy industry is finished - post Fukushima comments and now rapidly being proven wrong (many of you were/are still of that view).


I could go on but the only thing I find "discraceful" is they way you lot have posted here choosing to berate me personally. See you at the other end, nothing but abusive daytraders without a narrow minded short term view. Interesting so many daytraders find a need to "bash" anyone with a long term fundamental view.

Negatives and positives should *ALL* be brought out I agree, however as long as it is factual. That is often not the case.

I only came here this morning after a very good online friend (and outstnading investor) told me what was going on here at ASF was "disgraceful" and that they won't be coming back to ASF. I will try to change that view as ASF is a better place than this thread, however her comments are spot on and you do the site a disservice.

Perfect thread for me now...you are all on record. I trust you will all be here next year...


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## Boggo (26 June 2011)

hangseng, you are behaving like a little spoiled brat whose toy is broken.

I supect that one day PEN will progress but in the interim you need to think about some of the attitude you are directing at other PEN posters.
They are not attacking you or your PEN invested life savings, they are making comments about a stock.
Just because you have a strong belief in PEN does not give you the right to attack others whose opinion of the stock or how to make money from it is different to yours.

You carried on about PEN when it was on the way up, others said it would not last, that it would fall back rapidly - they were right - you were wrong - get over it.

As some of the more consistent and professional posters are alluding to, you are not doing much for the reputation of this site with statements such as this...


hangseng said:


> has had many posters come on with incredulous statements that are all now proven to be false and some blatant lies many using multinics for ntheir underhanded means and it continues.




Take a deep breath, spend some time on the link below and then come back to the sandpit when you have settled down...


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## Gringotts Bank (26 June 2011)

hang, I think a stock's true value will usually be realized in the end, no matter what people say.   However, in the short to medium term, things can be manipulated in both directions by forum posters and media articles.

Say 300,000 log-ins per day on HC, multiply that by $5000 and suddenly VERY big money is pouring in to the *stock of the week* - did _*you*_ do that?  Were *you *responsible for part of that?  If you were, fine!  If you know how to work the system without losing your credibility, you can manipulate things in your favour.  I mean, why else would you post every day on PEN???!!!  But trying to pull a stock down via a web forum is much harder.  That's because most traders are long, and they will question and hound anyone who tries to influence others in the downwards direction.  Or maybe they see trouble looming and you are too wrapped up in your PEN story to see it.  Possible?  I'd say yes, possible.

Not everyone has the power to influence others.  There's a handful on every forum.  They need to be responsible with that power and understand that they can move markets to some degree.  And if you can't beat 'em, you better join 'em or risk losing out.

I think you need to understand that you can't control what happens to PEN, and you can't control what other traders say or do.  Go with the flow of the market.  Sell when it tells you to sell.  

Or if you really DO believe that its true value will be realized, then relax, all will be well for you and the other PEN holders.


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## barney (26 June 2011)

Boggo said:


> hangseng, you are behaving like a little spoiled brat whose toy is broken.
> 
> Take a deep breath, spend some time on the link below and then come back to the sandpit when you have settled down...




Boggo .... I have to pull you up on this one.

*a)* If you believe HS has a depressive personaliy problem, you are being insensitive to his situation .... (for the record, I don't believe you believe that about HS, and neither do I)

*b)*  Using a reference like that is disrespectful to those who have/do suffer from a depressive personality/situation

Not attacking you personally as I appreciate many of your posts, but that post was in poor taste on many levels

Cheers M8


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## Julia (26 June 2011)

Boggo said:


> hangseng, you are behaving like a little spoiled brat whose toy is broken.
> 
> I supect that one day PEN will progress but in the interim you need to think about some of the attitude you are directing at other PEN posters.
> They are not attacking you or your PEN invested life savings, they are making comments about a stock.
> ...






barney said:


> Boggo .... I have to pull you up on this one.
> 
> *a)* If you believe HS has a depressive personaliy problem, you are being insensitive to his situation .... (for the record, I don't believe you believe that about HS, and neither do I)
> 
> ...




Barney, I cannot see where Boggo has in any way suggested that Hang Seng has 'a depressive problem', so why on earth would you chide him on such a basis?

Boggo is quite entitled, surely, to express his view about any poster's motives and/or behaviour without being accused of applying psychiatric labels!


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## barney (26 June 2011)

Julia said:


> Barney, I cannot see where Boggo has in any way suggested that Hang Seng has 'a depressive problem', so why on earth would you chide him on such a basis?
> 
> Boggo is quite entitled, surely, to express his view about any poster's motives and/or behaviour without being accused of applying psychiatric labels!




Hi Julia,  

Can I respectfully request that you click on the subliminal "naughty corner for hangseng"  link that Boggo posted before you pass final judgement on my opinion.

I don't make accusations like that lightly and would hope that long term ASF ers would respect that aspect of my postings.

Your comment after reading the link will be appreciated.

Regards.


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## Julia (26 June 2011)

Barney, to be honest, I hadn't actually taken in that the 'naughty corner' was a link to anything.  I've since had a look at it, and do have to agree that it's pretty unnecessary and likely inflammatory.

Thanks for pointing it out, and my apologies for not noticing it in the first place.

But oh, how I do wish we could just argue the point, without getting into personal affronts.


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## Joe Blow (26 June 2011)

I have done a database search and replace and removed all references to the "naughty corner" from this thread. I think that it was unnecessary and inflammatory and I would hope that there are no further instances of such provocation.


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## bathuu (26 June 2011)

Here we go again.


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## barney (26 June 2011)

Julia said:


> Barney, to be honest, I hadn't actually taken in that the 'naughty corner' was a link to anything.  I've since had a look at it, and do have to agree that it's pretty unnecessary and likely inflammatory.
> 
> Thanks for pointing it out, and my apologies for not noticing it in the first place.
> 
> *But oh, how I do wish we could just argue the point, without getting into personal affronts*.




No arguments from me Julia.  There is nothing wrong with a good humoured stouch between posters, but for some reason the good humour often turns into bad taste.  

Now that Joe has removed the offending link, people will assume I am babbling on about nothing, and assume I am basically loonie ...... thanks Joe


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## hangseng (27 June 2011)

barney said:


> No arguments from me Julia.  There is nothing wrong with a good humoured stouch between posters, but for some reason the good humour often turns into bad taste.
> 
> Now that Joe has removed the offending link, people will assume I am babbling on about nothing, and assume I am basically loonie ...... thanks Joe





This thread has displayed the worst in people.

It was started in good faith and it was simply turned into a personal afront full of childish assumptions, all directed at me. How touching...

True (lack of) character has been displayed here in many of these posts.


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## Gringotts Bank (28 June 2011)

hang, why do you post 10 times per day on PEN, here and HC?

Any um... personal reasons?  Got a bit of moola tied up in PEN?

Perhaps we should all chip in and buy some PEN, _*so it works out better for you*_.

gong xi fai ca

An earthquake happened, your stock went down.  Stop blaming everyone here.  Your persecution complex is in full swing.  No one is ganging up - it just so happens everyone disagrees with you.


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## hangseng (28 June 2011)

Gringotts Bank said:


> hang, why do you post 10 times per day on PEN, here and HC?
> 
> Any um... personal reasons?  Got a bit of moola tied up in PEN?
> 
> ...





Gringot, get off your high horse and even perhaps get a life.

I have never blamed anyone so that statement is simply pure crap. People can disagree and I have never had a problem with that. It is the pathetic manner people choose to do so, you a classic case.

Yes I do have a very large investment in PEN and recently added to it. All in profit, quite significant profit so I am very satisfied with my position in PEN and where PEN is about to head. I have never hidden that fact, unlike the swingers that change their views as many times as they blink each day.

You provide no input of value and merely come on full of personal abuse. Your derogatory, immature manner displays what type of person you are. what's your nic over there, or are you happy to hide behind a nic and throw abuse around. A cowardly act to state the least, as was it the poster that placed up the Beyond Blue link in a pathetic low life attempt to make a point.

Go back to your corner, you are way out of your depth.


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## samanne1 (28 June 2011)

Dont know much about stocks (see post count - yippee!) but learning, but having been around computer since the '80s, I know a little about the Internet and forums (incl. chat rooms)....

1. ramping prices up or down may occur, but buying/selling based on such is crazy by any user - what happened to "do your own research"

2. people may state factual or personal beliefs on a stock. for example, "such and such industry is dead" would be a personal belief. if you have a opposite view - good on you.

3. references to a "dog stock" or "penny dreadful" are not ANTI anything.

I would treat most posts in most forums with a grain of salt. If I believed everything I read, then I probably wouldn't invest anything because of "all" the "negative" comments.

Cheers


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## tigerboi (28 June 2011)

*Re: hang seng  Bashing - Real or Perceived? yes real!!*

mayte hang seng ol mate take some valium & have a good lie down

you are way too serious,get yourself a real life...put PEN in the pen for awhile,get out

your pen & do your bucket list,get a hobby & or a gf but sheesh bruvver lighten up &

dont forget the pen is mightier than the sword...tb


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## TabJockey (28 June 2011)

*Re: hang seng  Bashing - Real or Perceived? yes real!!*



tigerboi said:


> mayte hang seng ol mate take some valium & have a good lie down
> 
> you are way too serious,get yourself a real life...put PEN in the pen for awhile,get out
> 
> ...




Rofl Tigerboi you are right but...lay off the chuff mate.


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## Gringotts Bank (28 June 2011)

- save Joe the time -


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## TabJockey (28 June 2011)

Hahah Gringotts that was awesome man, I remember that too, like lemmings off a cliff!


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## tigerboi (29 June 2011)

*Re: hang seng  Bashing - Real or Perceived? yes real!!*



TabJockey said:


> Rofl Tigerboi you are right but...lay off the chuff mate.




nah dont do it it will fry ur brain up with all the chemicals 

they use to grow it these days.

just this HS dude bloke needs to get away from PEN.

cheers mate...TB...


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