# Who do you use for SMSF?



## Pager (4 July 2011)

Looking at setting up a SMSF so who do ASF members use ?, any tips or advice, have looked at a few providers, this one sounds good value http://selfmanagedsuperannuationadvisor.com.au/ so does anyone here use them ?, very cheap compared to others so is there a catch ?


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## Slipperz (4 July 2011)

*Re: Who do you use for SMSF ?*



Pager said:


> Looking at setting up a SMSF so who do ASF members use ?, any tips or advice, have looked at a few providers, this one sounds good value http://selfmanagedsuperannuationadvisor.com.au/ so does anyone here use them ?, very cheap compared to others so is there a catch ?




Yeah right like the ATO is gonna issue you with an ABN in quarter of an hour. Getting your existing fund to rollover your money into your own self managed  fund is like pulling teeth too. If you're talking a long term investment why worry about a couple of weeks once you have made your mind up?

Anyhoo I have used http://www.esuperfund.com.au/ for two years now and has been very hassle free. 

Costs $600 bucks a year for all the compliance reporting and stuff they take care of. Pretty happy with their service to date, other than the horrendous CGT bill they sent me


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## Pager (5 July 2011)

*Re: Who do you use for SMSF ?*



Slipperz said:


> Yeah right like the ATO is gonna issue you with an ABN in quarter of an hour. Getting your existing fund to rollover your money into your own self managed  fund is like pulling teeth too. If you're talking a long term investment why worry about a couple of weeks once you have made your mind up?
> 
> Anyhoo I have used http://www.esuperfund.com.au/ for two years now and has been very hassle free.
> 
> Costs $600 bucks a year for all the compliance reporting and stuff they take care of. Pretty happy with their service to date, other than the horrendous CGT bill they sent me




esuper look ok but you seem to have to use only certain banks/brokers/institutions  im guessing that this other low cost provider will be the same (have sent mail requesting this and other info) as to set up time, esuper quote a similar easy set up process which refers to filling in the paperwork rather than the whole set up, either way they both look very similar.

I also looked at this site too, a little more expensive but still very reasonable IMO, any one here use there services ?

http://www.mysmsfonline.com.au/pricing.aspx


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## Julia (5 July 2011)

Pager, I can't comment on any of the mass market SMSF providers, but one aspect you probably should clarify before you sign up is whether - if you become their client - you can depend on them keeping you notified of any changes to legislation.

It's really important that you are always in line with the rules as the penalties can be severe, and if you miss news or other reports about essential changes in requirements for Trustees, you could be in trouble.

I'm not at all suggesting the mass market people don't offer this.  Just be sure you check.
I've recently been looking to change accountants and discovered one who offered a lower quote than the others did not include this essential service.


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## tinhat (5 July 2011)

I'm quite happy with our local accounting firm helping us with compliance and reporting. We are only invested in bank deposits and shares. Now that one member is in pension phase working out the tax side of things is a bit more tricky. Otherwise the main issue for us has been making sure no-one over contributes (that is the main trap to watch out for with the ATO) and make sure we recalculate the minimum draw-down amount for the pension each year (the pension drawer is drawing minimum statutory required pension).

We generally have two tax planning meetings with our accountant each year - one around the time of our previous year's tax returns where we forecast and plan for the current year and one later around Easter leading up to the end of financial year.


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## tech/a (5 July 2011)

Same --- the accounting firm which looks after the Company Accounting looks after my SMSF 'S.
Hardly notice the running of them


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## james0909 (13 July 2011)

I have found www.equipdiysuper.com.au good. Low fees and professional service. Very happy customer


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## missamor (28 December 2011)

james0909 said:


> I have found www.equipdiysuper.com.au good. Low fees and professional service. Very happy customer




Hi, i heard a lot about this equipdiysuper.com it's really good and  noteworthy.


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## MACD (28 December 2011)

I use Esuper and have been using them for the past 3+ years.  They are really good and have never had an issue with them.


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## Jim22 (10 January 2012)

Currently looking myself for a SMSF advisor and broker. People seem to be happy with Esuperfund, but for now I will continue looking for a while until I found a company I know I will be a 100% happy with.Still so new to the game and learning lots still about the whole concept of self managing your super fund.Currently using the following website for resources to help me learn more about it, if you know any good sites that teach about SMSF, feel free to send me a pm 

http://www.smsfeducation.com.au/


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## Julia (10 January 2012)

Don't over-complicate it.  Running a SMSF, once the Trust Deed has been executed, is little different from holding the same investments outside of Super, the advantage being that you are only taxed at 15% in your SF, then zero tax when moving to pension phase eventually.

If you're not sure about a generic organisation like Esuperfund, then find your own accountant who can do the set up for you.  With the proliferation of SMSFs these days, most accountants, or lawyers for that matter, will be able to help you for a very reasonable fee.

Imo an important thing to ask any potential accountant is "can you depend on him to keep you advised of any regulatory changes" as they happen?  The ATO also has a SMSF email service.

You won't know that you will be 100% happy with a service until you have tried it, so if you wait until you feel so absolutely assured, you won't do it at all imo.

PS  You have probably already found this:
http://www.ato.gov.au/superfunds/


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## Bill M (21 January 2012)

Got an email this week from Rabodirect about SMSF's. They are now offering this service so I got quite excited about it until I read the set up and fees part. 

Setup is near $1,000 depending on whether you want to do it as trustees or as a company.

What really shocked me was the administration fee per annum, $2,880.

So I looked a bit deeper and found that they will be using a company called Cavendish. So apart from all your other fees like brokerage you still have to pay that admin fee. When I saw that I thought no way, it is a charge way over the top.

I currently use an Industry Super Fund, for a 100K account I pay $560 P/A all in for fees. I would have thought Rabobank could have run this SMSF administration themselves rather than using someone else.

So for the time being I am sticking to my industry super fund, it just isn't worth such a high fee to me to have someone do the books for me. (Before anyone says it, yes I know I can administer the fund myself but it is something I don't want to do.)

Link Here:http://www.rabodirect.com.au/smsf/default.aspx?utm_campaign=PR_111202&utm_source=AU00804&utm_medium=EMAIL


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## Julia (21 January 2012)

Bill, I agree 100% with your decision.  Cavendish have always been very expensive.
I'm a bit surprised at Rabobank choosing to use them.  Bet they don't get too many takers.  The people who do take up the offer are those who have no confidence in making their own decisions and will be looking to Cavendish for full advice.
Hardly what you need!


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## jnalad (23 January 2012)

Bill M said:


> Got an email this week from Rabodirect about SMSF's. They are now offering this service so I got quite excited about it until I read the set up and fees part.
> 
> Setup is near $1,000 depending on whether you want to do it as trustees or as a company.
> 
> ...




I am in the same boat and looking for a good online system, With eSuperFund you have register with them and is limited to CommSec and ANZ Cash Account. I have found the following so far, has anyone looked them. 
www.praemium.com.au 
www.supereasy.com.au
www.unip.com.au

Appreciate your feed back as I am planning to take over from my accountant who is charging me over $2000.00 when the returns are low during this GFC period.


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## Julia (24 January 2012)

jnalad said:


> Appreciate your feed back as I am planning to take over from my accountant who is charging me over $2000.00 when the returns are low during this GFC period.




Your returns have no relationship to what your accountant needs to charge you.
He/she is required to prepare a very specific amount of detail in your SMSF tax return to meet the SIS regulations.   Your actual profit or loss has absolutely no bearing on this.
An exception would be, perhaps, if you had moved all to cash and had no share related transactions.

Around $2000 would probably amongst the lowest most accountants would charge.
I've had quotes for well over $5000.


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## Boggo (24 January 2012)

Julia said:


> Your returns have no relationship to what your accountant needs to charge you.
> He/she is required to prepare a very specific amount of detail in your SMSF tax return to meet the SIS regulations.   Your actual profit or loss has absolutely no bearing on this.
> An exception would be, perhaps, if you had moved all to cash and had no share related transactions.
> 
> ...




Precisely Julia. I have re-negotiated my fees etc with my SMSF accountant and will still cost just over $3000.
I know that they will ensure that my SMSF is compliant and they keep me fully informed of any changes or requirements that may affect my fund.

I have had a few meetings in Melbourne with two of the groups that get mentioned here, in one case a rent by the day office (room) in a group of the same with a receptionist at the front desk who handled all messages etc for all of the rental offices.

I am not saying that there is anything wrong with their credibility, ability, qualifications or service etc but for the sake of maybe $1000 I would rather spend the extra money and deal with a company who has a dedicated SMSF accounts manager.

Just my


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## jnalad (24 January 2012)

Julia said:


> Your returns have no relationship to what your accountant needs to charge you.
> He/she is required to prepare a very specific amount of detail in your SMSF tax return to meet the SIS regulations.   Your actual profit or loss has absolutely no bearing on this.
> An exception would be, perhaps, if you had moved all to cash and had no share related transactions.
> 
> ...




I trade regularly and I have found some accountants dont even know about some of the processes, example of how tax deferred works when calculating CGT on parcels. So what they charge is absolutely rubbish. I asked an accountant why are you charging over $1450.00, the answer was because everyone else is. When I asked how do you work out the capital gains etc. They were showing me how they do it and I realised they are charging more because they are wasting time on data entry etc.


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## hangseng (24 January 2012)

*Re: Who do you use for SMSF ?*



Slipperz said:


> Yeah right like the ATO is gonna issue you with an ABN in quarter of an hour. Getting your existing fund to rollover your money into your own self managed  fund is like pulling teeth too. If you're talking a long term investment why worry about a couple of weeks once you have made your mind up?
> 
> Anyhoo I have used http://www.esuperfund.com.au/ for two years now and has been very hassle free.
> 
> Costs $600 bucks a year for all the compliance reporting and stuff they take care of. Pretty happy with their service to date, other than the horrendous CGT bill they sent me




I have used esuperfund for over 6 years now. Setup and first year cost me nothing and now I pay $699 a year.

It is a basic compliance service they provide no advice whatsoever and state as much. You need to keep up to date with all legislation yourself, of which I did anyway when I had so called "professionals" managing my super.

Now my fees are low and the fund has increased in value, exceeding the previous fund I had by far.

They aren't a set and forget provider, you need to keep them on their toes when you make changes and keep yourself well informed. If you aren't confident in doing that then they aren't for you.

The only reason I am considering a change is to give me more flexibility in selecting who I trade with and where the cash account is held. The current restriction increasing trading costs quite significantly now. ANZ V2 cash account and Comsec trading account, so no trading discount applies on brokerage.

I need to weigh up the cost of brokerage against the additional cost of a new provider. If esuperfund changed this restriction I would not consider moving.

I was going to use a Perth accounting firm that used to do my annual taxation. I say used to, as they knew nothing and charged me double for the privilege. I found myself telling them what had to occur after doing my own research.  Research that they had the gall to charge me for after they reworded into accountant speak that meant the same as I told them.

Being an expat certain things had to change in regard to trustees and central management and control. They were lost on this and eventually I got my own ruling from the ATO. If I had listened to them it would have cost me and the fund a small fortune.

Do I regret having an SMSF or using esuperfund? No way, best move I ever made financially for my eventual retirement. But using esuperfund is certainly a hands on requirement. Wait for them to advise you and you will end up non-compliant.

Sign up to the ATO SMSF mailouts and keep a list of online places that give regular free updates. Plenty of information out there.


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## Boggo (24 January 2012)

Boggo said:


> I have re-negotiated my fees etc with my SMSF accountant and will still cost just over $3000.




I probably should have said that this includes both the administration fees and the external audit fees, there are two components in the annual SMSF taxation submission.

The cost probably also needs to be in context, ie. last year my total costs were 0.83% of the account, this year will be less than 0.8%.

One quick trade (two weeks in AGS  ) is all it takes to cover the costs.


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## Julia (24 January 2012)

jnalad said:


> I trade regularly and I have found some accountants dont even know about some of the processes, example of how tax deferred works when calculating CGT on parcels. So what they charge is absolutely rubbish. I asked an accountant why are you charging over $1450.00, the answer was because everyone else is. When I asked how do you work out the capital gains etc. They were showing me how they do it and I realised they are charging more because they are wasting time on data entry etc.



Absolutely no doubt that there are incompetent and unethical accountants out there.
I've encountered two of them who caused me untold grief.  Now have someone whom I can depend on absolutely and whose fee is adjusted for the amount of work involved.
e.g. the 2010/11 year will be less than the previous year because there are very few share transactions, just a fair bit of transferring between accounts of cash and interest.




hangseng said:


> I have used esuperfund for over 6 years now. Setup and first year cost me nothing and now I pay $699 a year.
> 
> It is a basic compliance service they provide no advice whatsoever and state as much. You need to keep up to date with all legislation yourself, of which I did anyway when I had so called "professionals" managing my super.
> 
> ...



Great post, hangseng.   I'm sure esuperfund is perfect for a lot of people.
I'm more than happy, though, to pay more for the individual relationship and certainty of being kept advised of anything I need to know.




Boggo said:


> I probably should have said that this includes both the administration fees and the external audit fees, there are two components in the annual SMSF taxation submission.



Yep, probably an important point for anyone new to SMSFs to remember when getting quotes, i.e. to make sure the audit cost is included.



> The cost probably also needs to be in context, ie. last year my total costs were 0.83% of the account, this year will be less than 0.8%.



Exactly.  I think the last time I worked out mine it was around 0.4%.


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## Sir Burr (25 January 2012)

*Re: Who do you use for SMSF ?*



hangseng said:


> Sign up to the ATO SMSF mailouts and keep a list of online places that give regular free updates. Plenty of information out there.




Thanks hangseng, recently up to eSuper and good to hear from someone who has used them for some time.

Anyone interested, here's the link to subscribe to ATO:
http://www.ato.gov.au/subscription/Default.aspx?sid=42

Cheers, SB.


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## jnalad (26 January 2012)

*Re: Who do you use for SMSF ?*



hangseng said:


> I have used esuperfund for over 6 years now. Setup and first year cost me nothing and now I pay $699 a year.
> 
> It is a basic compliance service they provide no advice whatsoever and state as much. You need to keep up to date with all legislation yourself, of which I did anyway when I had so called "professionals" managing my super.
> 
> ...




I like trading regularly and like to keep my portfolio position up to date. I have now decided to go with a new mob at www.unip.com.au They are offering at the same price as eSuperFund but with any broker and an online portfolio service that is quite advanced. I had a choice over Praemium and SuperEasy and UNIP.


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