# Traders offering 20% return



## Flash (2 March 2005)

Hi there,

Just had a call from a company offering 20% returns.
There strategy involves day trading and involves you buying their system for around $1500.At first thought to good to be true.
Are these returns really possible or are they exaggerated figures?

They are sending me brochure in mail in few days.Based in Sydney.


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## DTM (2 March 2005)

The best fund managers made 80% return this year.    

Do these guys have a financial advisor's license?    

You would probably do better following Tech/A's techniques.  Or alternatively, the other traders who also post here seem to do a lot better than 20%, and their information's free.    

 :bier:


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## RichKid (2 March 2005)

I'm always critical of so called 'systems' or blackboxes that get spruiked for thousands of dollars with 'guaranteed' returns. Check their credentials and then check with ASIC AND ask if they have a written money back guarantee. Personally, I'd say a flat no. Worth seeing the brochure though to see what they're upto. So many people will get fleeced this year as they get greedy and fall for dodgy spruikers, make sure you're not one of them and seek professional advice at the first opportunity.


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## Mofra (5 March 2005)

Flash,

Did they give a timeframe for the 20% return or how long they've achieve it? 
Given the bull market of the past two years a 20% return isn't that spectacular, especially when you consider the effort & risk associated with daytrading.

Good luck


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## tech/a (5 March 2005)

I find simply asking for *audited* trading statements over a 2 yr or longer period does the trick.

Ive had replies like.

This isnt for you---damned right there.

We can get them for you call us tommorow----great stalling tactic answers the question and deflects the truth that they havent got any as tommorow they will need only to deal with YOU not a room full of people.

While we can supply them past performance cannot guarentee the same profitable result in the future we have no reason to believe at this time that the profits of (x%) cannot be achieved.------fantastic step right up and place your first ($X,000) punt----sadly many do!!


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## Flash (8 March 2005)

Hi Guy's ,
Thanks for your replies.
There stats state for a $2000 investment from 2001 to 2004 has produced a profit of $102455.
The program they are selling is called the maxi trader stock market program.
The actual company is Dow pacific pty ltd.

Cheers.


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## DTM (8 March 2005)

Flash said:
			
		

> Hi Guy's ,
> Thanks for your replies.
> There stats state for a $2000 investment from 2001 to 2004 has produced a profit of $102455.
> The program they are selling is called the maxi trader stock market program.
> ...




Hmm...  Always seems that when people can't make money trading, they sell.  Reminds me of all the companies I saw in NY trying to make money selling their software systems.  They always point to the middle of a chart and say this is where their system says buy and this is where it says to sell.  "Buy low and sell high".  It's easy to make figures look good from past data, saying they would have bought here in the low and selling here in the high.  They could never point to the end of of the page (of the chart) and say this is where we're going to buy.  Remember, anyone could look like a genius in hindsight (theoretically generated trading from past data).

Sorry to be a sceptic but if I had an edge like that I wouldn't be trying to sell it.  Why would you?  If you had $30,000 to start with, you would have ended up with 1.5 million.  Now why would you sell it?

As always, approach people selling snake oil with caution...  

Regards

Daniel

PS  I thought you said it was 20% profit?


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## phoenixrising (9 March 2005)

Also know someone who was approached by them

My suggestion was ask for several phone numbers of happy customers and see what happens.

Has been discused on incredible charts forum
Hope it's ok to post Joe

http://www.incrediblecharts.com/userscripts/forums/discus.plx?pg=prev&topic=12&page=427923

Cheers


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## RichKid (9 March 2005)

I've looked at the link you've posted Phoenix and it just shows that these scam artists keep moving from person to person till they hook one.


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## dutchie (9 March 2005)

It never ceases to amaze me that people offering great rewards (e.g. - 20%/month) always have suckers to sell their product to.

Common sense tells you that if someone has such a good system that they would be trading it and not wasting their time selling it!!!

I guess common sense is not so common.


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## Flash (9 March 2005)

Just been on the phone with them again.
What they are trying to do is sell 300 programs for $7800 each,I thought it was only $1500 and then after 2 years you are offered a program for around $25000 and you need about the same in capital.

Funny thing was they were saying there's only 4 left but  on a link in a previous thread they were saying the exact same thing to another client.

I also asked for clients references but said they weren't able to give them out because of guidelines and certain restrictions.

Thanks for your help.


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## RichKid (9 March 2005)

They certainly sound suspect, I wouldn't waste anymore time on them if I were you.


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## Flash (10 March 2005)

Today they offered me half price to start up and pay the rest back with the profit.
Now there is only 1 system left supposeably for my state so will see what happens.
I asked them if I could have it for free but wouldn't budge.
They were also saying they were the only company who could put their figures on a brochure to keep within guidelines.


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## stockGURU (10 March 2005)

Flash said:
			
		

> Today they offered me half price to start up and pay the rest back with the profit.
> Now there is only 1 system left supposeably for my state so will see what happens.
> I asked them if I could have it for free but wouldn't budge.
> They were also saying they were the only company who could put their figures on a brochure to keep within guidelines.



You have to ask yourself, if their product is so good why do they need the hard sell tactics?   

This whole thing sounds a bit fishy to me. I would buy a couple of good beginners books on the stock market and invest in your own self-education instead.


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## Mofra (13 March 2005)

On black box systems, 

I have heard of one system that is in use on futures markets and makes consistent profits (of course, any workable system would be used to trade derivatives and not equities, Flash there's your first clue). The development of the system is outlined in "The Predictors" by Thomas A Bass, worth a read if anyone is interested.

Of course, it cost millions to develop, was designed by a team of professors and specialists and there is no way such a system would be offered to the general public.


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