# Losing CFD long position



## Kelly (12 September 2016)

How long will it take to get back up to where it was at the end of August (5570)?
Weeks, Months, Years, Never?

I'm starting to panic a bit now with this CFD position that I opened (buy) 2 weeks ago.
Luckily I have the cash to pump into it to keep the position open. I assume that would be the smart thing to do yes?


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## Klogg (12 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Kelly said:


> How long will it take to get back up to where it was at the end of August (5570)?
> Weeks, Months, Years, Never?
> 
> I'm starting to panic a bit now with this CFD position that I opened (buy) 2 weeks ago.
> Luckily I have the cash to pump into it to keep the position open.* I assume that would be the smart thing to do yes?*




If you don't really know, then why are you risking your money?


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## Triathlete (12 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Kelly said:


> How long will it take to get back up to where it was at the end of August (5570)?
> Weeks, Months, Years, Never?
> 
> *I'm starting to panic a bit now with this CFD position that I opened (buy) 2 weeks ago*.
> Luckily I have the cash to pump into it to keep the position open. I assume that would be the smart thing to do yes?




What was your exit position before you took the trade...?????  ( how much were you willing to lose before closing your position)..????

No one trade should get you into that position unless you have incorrect position sizing or you are way over leveraged.


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## Kelly (12 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Klogg said:


> If you don't really know, then why are you risking your money?



Because gambling can be fun!


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## tech/a (12 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*

*



			I assume that would be the smart thing to do yes?
		
Click to expand...


*

Hilarious.


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## Porper (12 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Kelly said:


> Because gambling can be fun!




May as well throw your money down the drain then because you won't win over the long term in this game.

If you are serious about learning then do just that. Learn how to trade...then you can lose all your money. It will be even better fun.


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## Kelly (12 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Triathlete said:


> What was your exit position before you took the trade...?????  ( how much were you willing to lose before closing your position)..????
> 
> No one trade should get you into that position unless you have incorrect position sizing or you are way over leveraged.




Hi Triathlete, thanks for your reply. 
Yes I am way over leveraged for this trade, due to getting a false sense of security from all my previous winnings on it (long & short). Which were usually only open for a couple of days. Looks like I will be keeping this one open for a while.

Currently at 47k loss (thought it would not fluctuate more than about 30k loss)

"willing to loose" - well I originally had a 10k loss stop on it, but then I removed it! :-o

I would like to keep it open for as long as I have to. What goes down must come up! (isn't that how it goes?! lol)

Yes, yes, I know what I am! You really all don't need to tell me . I did not see this continuous fall coming (who did exactly?)


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## Porper (12 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Kelly said:


> Hi Triathlete, thanks for your reply.
> Yes I am way over leveraged for this trade, due to getting a false sense of security from all my previous winnings on it (long & short). Which were usually only open for a couple of days. Looks like I will be keeping this one open for a while.
> 
> Currently at 47k loss (thought it would not fluctuate more than about 30k loss)
> ...




Nobody can predict the markets or control profit. In fact, all you can control is how much you are prepared to lose. That's a great asset to have. Cut losses quickly and let profits run is an overused adage but basically it's correct.


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## skc (12 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Kelly said:


> How long will it take to get back up to where it was at the end of August (5570)?
> Weeks, Months, Years, Never?
> 
> I'm starting to panic a bit now with this CFD position that I opened (buy) 2 weeks ago.
> Luckily I have the cash to pump into it to keep the position open. I assume that would be the smart thing to do yes?




That's not how you should gamble with CFDs. 

If you bring $500 to the casino, decided that you will walk out if you lose that then it's just a bit of fun.

If you go to the casino with 5 bank cards, 6 credit cards and a home equity loan, you are obviously just looking for trouble.

Putting more money in the account because your gamble didn't come good sounds like a recipe for further losses.

Good luck and act sensibly.


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## CanOz (12 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*

My goodness, I nearly lost my breakfast when I saw that P/L....Kelly, you better get a hard exit in mind, volatility has returned and it's not bullish, the best you can HOPE for is a bounce in the US session as one in the European session is less likely. If we don't get a bounce in the US session then losses could be sustained for another Asian and European session, consider that in your RISK MANAGEMENT PLAN.


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## Gringotts Bank (12 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*

Kelly, you sound to me like you have a lot of spare cash, and you're happy enough punting.  That's your choice and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that if 47k is a small percentage of your net worth.

Now I see you live in Dandenong.  What's your decision?  Will you close out the position or hold? If you hold I'd suggest selling the first green day.


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## Toyota Lexcen (12 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*

that 47K loss would be not to dissimilar to losses people are experiencing holding direct securities at the moment,

at the time of the GFC people lost when gambling (holding securities), a few years on and its happening again with many wondering if a big crash is coming with the stand off in lifting interest rates


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## qldfrog (12 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



tech/a said:


> Hilarious.




or sad?


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## Kelly (12 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



CanOz said:


> My goodness, I nearly lost my breakfast when I saw that P/L....



lol, and here I thought that would be an average or smallish loss for you serious educated traders! 
I'm serious, but not educated! 

I started CFD trading 7 weeks ago. 120 closed positions, 35% of the positions were at loss, 60k profit.
I'm not sure if that can be attributed to pure luck or not, I don't use any of those 'funny' charts with indicators and butterflies or read any news, but I do have a very analytical mind, so maybe that has helped.
With the 47k loss (on 1 bloody trade!), that makes my current position $13k profit.

I am 'prepared' to loose around $50k (and was from the start).
I'm not sure I'm rich (I actually live in Doveton! lol) but I'm very thrifty, I rarely spend money and I don't 'need' any more money. I have 3 investment properties that are already 70% paid off, but property is so BORING!

With the position... I think I will wait a few days to decide what I'm going to do.


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## Gringotts Bank (12 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Kelly said:


> lol, and here I thought that would be an average or smallish loss for you serious educated traders!
> I'm serious, but not educated!




Nope.  Most of us retail traders would bet around the 5-20k mark per stock.  Some ASF members bet big, but they're unlikely to say so here.  Some of them are retail, others are trading OPM.


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## CanOz (12 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*

Kelly, we all have a story of our first catastrophic loss. Mine came as a copper cfd after a great year in equities. My loss was 25% of my account value in less than an hour. Similar to you, I had no exit plan. It ended up being a pain level and thank goodness it was a low pain threshold. Copper kept rising after I covered my short, so at least I did the right thing by getting out...all be it too late. Make a plan and stick with it, you're still playing with profits and can have enough left before it's too late to use when you reevaluate. Regardless of your method for analysis or not....all successful traders have a risk management plan, I suggest you get one, soon!


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## cynic (12 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*

Correct me if mistaken Kelly, but does that position move by $1,500 per point of movement in the ASX200?


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## tech/a (12 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*

I think I found your chart!








Your not alone---very common.


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## McLovin (12 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



cynic said:


> Correct me if mistaken Kelly, but does that position move by $1,500 per point of movement in the ASX200?




I think it's $150.


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## cynic (12 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



McLovin said:


> I think it's $150.




Thanks Mclovin. 

(I should have realised my error from the other figures, the 1500 contracts bit threw me.)


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## McLovin (12 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Kelly said:


> I started CFD trading 7 weeks ago. 120 closed positions, 35% of the positions were at loss, 60k profit.
> I'm not sure if that can be attributed to pure luck or not, I don't use any of those 'funny' charts with indicators and butterflies or read any news, but I do have a very analytical mind, so maybe that has helped.
> With the 47k loss (on 1 bloody trade!), that makes my current position $13k profit.




If you don't use charts, and you don't read the news, then what are you using your "very analytical mind" on? It seems as though you're doing anything but analysing. There are thousands of other people who you are "competing" against. You're the bunny in the game. Taking a shot-gun approach and adding way too much leverage is a good way to blow up quickly.


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## cynic (12 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



McLovin said:


> If you don't use charts, and you don't read the news, then what are you using your "very analytical mind" on? It seems as though you're doing anything but analysing. There are thousands of other people who you are "competing" against. You're the bunny in the game. Taking a shot-gun approach and adding way too much leverage is a good way to blow up quickly.




Geez mclovin!

Where's your sense of advanture?

What's the worst that could happen?

ASX 200 cannot drop lower than zero and even if it were to drop that low, it would still only cost Kelly a mere $750K and change.


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## Smurf1976 (12 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Kelly said:


> How long will it take to get back up to where it was at the end of August (5570)?
> Weeks, Months, Years, Never?




Well if someone took a long position on the XAO 9 years ago then they'll still be waiting to break even in terms of the index. Dividends might have made the trade profitable by now but the index itself hasn't returned to the all time high yet and it doesn't look as though it's about to happen anytime soon.


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## Gringotts Bank (12 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*

I think we'll find the 'Kelly criterion' turns out to be someone posting random stuff to get a reaction.  Has that feel about it.  I doubt its veracity.


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## McLovin (12 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



cynic said:


> Geez mclovin!
> 
> Where's your sense of advanture?
> 
> ...




Better hope the property market doesn't tank then, so that collateral is available!


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## notting (12 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Gringotts Bank said:


> I think we'll find the 'Kelly criterion' turns out to be someone posting random stuff to get a reaction.  Has that feel about it.  I doubt its veracity.




It's hard to believe someone could be that naive.


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## Klogg (12 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



notting said:


> It's hard to believe someone could be that naive.




I've seen far worse... and from people that are related to me nonetheless...

This is definitely in the realm of possibility - even if I risk being naive.


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## Toyota Lexcen (12 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Smurf1976 said:


> Well if someone took a long position on the XAO 9 years ago then they'll still be waiting to break even in terms of the index. Dividends might have made the trade profitable by now but the index itself hasn't returned to the all time high yet and it doesn't look as though it's about to happen anytime soon.




yes depending on which stocks you choose, and some say cash is a flawed investment, probably return on cash and return on share not to different over this period

with cash you know exactly where you stand, with shares the mental anguish is pretty hard to deal with and you have no idea what the value will be day in day out


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## barney (12 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Gringotts Bank said:


> I think we'll find the 'Kelly criterion' turns out to be someone posting random stuff to get a reaction.  Has that feel about it.  I doubt its veracity.




Agree Gringo ......  Flippancy + large losses is not generally something to make a noise about! ..... I'd be more or  rather than :dimbulb:


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## CanOz (13 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*

Looks like Kelly might get an opportunity to claw back some losses this morning and place a hard stop in the market to prevent any further losses....ooops, difficult to do if you don't use a chart!


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## Kelly (13 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Gringotts Bank said:


> I think we'll find the 'Kelly criterion' turns out to be someone posting random stuff to get a reaction.  Has that feel about it.  I doubt its veracity.




I'm new to this, sorry if I posted in the wrong section, but I couldn't see an XAO/ASX thread in the beginners section. I was just looking for some advice and also wanted to give you all some entertainment!
Would somebody really go to the trouble of faking screen shots just to get a reaction!

I do use charts of course, I look at the normal one and visually study it (hours + days). The only reason I don't use those other ones (butterflies, bats etc) is because haven't had a chance to find out where I even begin (software, learning curve, wtf am I looking at!)

Thanks for all the tips guys. and yes I still have the position open... twiddling my thumbs.

Kelly


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## notting (13 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*

If I had thought Kelly was for real, which he now seems to be, I would have said sell everything blindly at the open, cause he would have been in the black still!
Sit back and then ask people here for their educated opinions at every step and trade with 10% of your cash.  
Do not leverage for at least 3 years!


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## Kelly (13 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



barney said:


> Agree Gringo ......  Flippancy + large losses is not generally something to make a noise about! ..... I'd be more or  rather than :dimbulb:




I am not one to be ashamed of my mistakes, regret sure, but I have no problem talking about it, I think it makes you feel better. 
I'm not one of those people who only brags about the 'good things'.


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## Kelly (13 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



notting said:


> If I had thought Kelly was for real, which he now seems to be, I would have said sell everything blindly at the open, cause he would have been in the black still!
> Sit back and then ask people here for their educated opinions at every step and trade with 10% of your cash.
> Do not leverage for at least 3 years!




I am female, are you all guys? Is this more of a guys game?


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## notting (13 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Kelly said:


> I am female, are you all guys? Is this more of a guys game?




No.  Girls are better at it than guys.
It's great to make mistakes just don't lose money.
If your ahead, get out and sit back and breath.
Then take some lessons.
Trade with 10% of what you have to trade with in cash now.  Not what you can leverage to.
When you have done that and lost it all you will be thankful you did not use all of it.


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## qldfrog (13 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Kelly said:


> I am female, are you all guys? Is this more of a guys game?



probably in term of hiding losses/boasting wins;
Trading wise, being a female, you should be more cool headed and better at following your plan/trading strategy, but you NEED one;
As suggested, get out while you are still ahead or with minimal losses then start anew maybe on paper first then with very small amounts first (within limits obviously)
hope it helps


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## tech/a (13 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*

Girls are no different

Especially when they realize how many hand bags and shoes they could have purchased with $40K.


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## Gringotts Bank (13 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Kelly said:


> Would somebody really go to the trouble of faking screen shots just to get a reaction!




Yeh I do it all the time.  Haven't you noticed?


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## Wysiwyg (13 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Kelly said:


> I'm not sure I'm rich (I actually live in Doveton! lol) but *I'm very thrifty, I rarely spend money and I don't 'need' any more money*. I have 3 investment properties that are already 70% paid off, but property is so BORING!
> 
> *With the position... I think I will wait a few days to decide what I'm going to do*.




Banter
verb
1.
exchange remarks in a good-humoured teasing way.

Looks all a bit false or at least far fetched to me so the appropriate thread.


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## Gringotts Bank (13 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Wysiwyg said:


> Banter
> verb
> 1.
> exchange remarks in a good-humoured teasing way.
> ...




The whole thing is full of contradictions.  Just a dork with a made up story... and definitely not female.


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## Kelly (13 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*

Yeah I'm so ridiculous, stupid and naive that I can't possibly be real. I'm feeling just great now.


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## cynic (13 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Kelly said:


> Yeah I'm so ridiculous, stupid and naive that I can't possibly be real. I'm feeling just great now.




If that's true, then that must surely mean that you are UNREAL!

For what it's worth, sometimes online communities have difficulty discerning genuine newcomers from those with hidden agendas.

I currently consider you to be genuine( but I could be mistaken - time usually tells).

Either way, I do hope you stay around, as I am enjoying your input.

In light of your recent experience, have you made any amendments to your cfd trading strategy?


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## notting (13 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Kelly said:


> Yeah I'm so ridiculous, stupid and naive that I can't possibly be real. I'm feeling just great now.




Lesson 1. 
It feels like **** When you have no idea what you are doing and then when you do.

[video=dailymotion;x155k8e]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x155k8e_bob-dylan-house-of-the-risin-sun-1962-digitally-remastered_music[/video]


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## Kelly (13 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*

Cheers Cynic, 

I'm not too sure I'll post here for a while, it's really taken a toll on my confidence. I thought I'd get a couple of laughs at my silly mistake and a few tips along the way, I didn't realise this was a place where you don't talk about your losses. If you do you are branded as someone so pathetic that you must be a troll. 

Or maybe it's just a test to see how strong I am? Helping me get prepared for harsh realities of  trading...  I wish that were true, but I guess there will always be bullies, especially online. 

I made a good profit in 7 weeks with no experience, I started small & kept winning. I got over confident and made 1 big mistake. 
How is that is 'unbelievable' ? 
What contradictions?


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## Newt (13 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*

Kelly, if you're serious about learning, then ASF is a great place to keep coming back to for advice, direction and options on your journey.  It could be worth starting your own thread in the Derivatives or Beginner's areas.  As already mentioned here, don't just set aside $50k - expect to put in a few years at least to regularly break or even think about profitability and leverage.  If you feel clueless right now then get started figuring out the questions you need answers to.

Welcome to ASF by the way - and hope you exit in the black on your CFD trade


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## notting (13 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



> Or maybe it's just a test to see how strong I am? Helping me get prepared for harsh realities of trading




YES!

You have just noticed something about the market, not us!!!
We are just hearing you say, 'My what big teeth you have grandma.'


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## cynic (14 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Kelly said:


> Cheers Cynic,
> 
> I'm not too sure I'll post here for a while, it's really taken a toll on my confidence. I thought I'd get a couple of laughs at my silly mistake and a few tips along the way, I didn't realise this was a place where you don't talk about your losses. If you do you are branded as someone so pathetic that you must be a troll.
> 
> ...




I am personally acquainted with a few people who had similar experiences to yourself during their early explorations into leveraged  derivatives (forex/spread bets/cfds). Hence my reason for perceiving your situation as quite credible.

It usually takes years, rather than months, to be served anything more than a small sampling of the wide variety of pitfalls that the market so readily offers.

So be prepared to find yourself unprepared!


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## Triathlete (14 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Kelly said:


> Cheers Cynic,
> 
> I'm not too sure I'll post here for a while, it's really taken a toll on my confidence. I thought I'd get a couple of laughs at my silly mistake and a few tips along the way, I didn't realise this was a place where you don't talk about your losses. If you do you are branded as someone so pathetic that you must be a troll.
> 
> ...




Welcome Kelly....do not feel too bad, as a newbie to the forum most always get an introduction like this....including me. 
Everyone is trying to work out if you are legit, it is just the way it is.

Their are many knowledgeable members here who have a lot of experience in both types of analysis...Fundies and Techies so you can learn a great deal.

Congratulations on your past success however in my opinion without proper understanding of the markets longer term it will be difficult to stay profitable....Markets are constantly changing and what may have worked for you before may not work for you in the future.

You need many tools in your toolbox to stay ahead of the game.

You will need to work out what type of investor you wish to be and then work out the strategy that will get you their.

As in your previous posts you look like trading is what you wish to pursue at present then you really need to have your risk management sorted out..you said previously that you were willing to lose $10k this is were you had your stop then for some reason you took stop out  and you have now suffered greater losses, unfortunately trading like this you will not survive it is the harsh reality of trading..

My advice would be that everytime you take a trade work out what the upside is likely to be and also what the downside risk is and stick to it...once you set your stop never ever ever ever and ever remove it just because it has gone against you on this occasion...just cut your losses and regroup again analyse what went wrong with the trade before you place another one to see if it was a mistake on your part or it was due to some unforeseen event.

Being a newbie I would ensure I could trade profitable for 1-2 years first before even using leveraged instruments such as CFDs as you have mentioned.....best of luck and happy investing...it is a long road.. 

Cheers
Triathlete


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## Gringotts Bank (14 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*

Trading requires one to see through the BS, and I'm simply exercising my discretion and a bit of intuition.

Do I feel bad about doubting someone?  Absolutely not - couldn't care less.  I've placed my bets, and I'm happy with them.  

He plays a good game, whoever he is.  Maybe time for a new hobby?


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## Kelly (14 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Gringotts Bank said:


> Trading requires one to see through the BS, and I'm simply exercising my discretion and a bit of intuition.
> 
> Do I feel bad about doubting someone?  Absolutely not - couldn't care less.  I've placed my bets, and I'm happy with them.
> 
> He plays a good game, whoever he is.  Maybe time for a new hobby?




You are just stirring now, no one is that paranoid. 
Yeah I'm a spy trying to steal your amazing trading secrets! 

This is for you and the other bullies...


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## Gringotts Bank (14 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*

Like I said, I've placed my bets and I'm happy with them.  You are free to put me on ignore if I offend you.  There's an ignore button somewhere.


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## tech/a (14 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Gringotts Bank said:


> Like I said, I've placed my bets and I'm happy with them.  You are free to put me on ignore if I offend you.  There's an ignore button somewhere.




Think everyone has been cordial.
Don't see any bullying by you or anyone else.


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## skc (14 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Kelly said:


> You are just stirring now, no one is that paranoid.
> Yeah I'm a spy trying to steal your amazing trading secrets!
> 
> This is for you and the other bullies...
> ...




Love it!!

BTW Gringott's Bank has a habit to psycho-analyse anyone who posts... You could post a comma and he will try to predict that you are 23 year, Central European with an unhappy marriage, most likely blonde and have a strong desire to be successful due to some childhood issue.

And he's most usually wrong, just like his trading


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## tech/a (14 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



tech/a said:


> Think everyone has been cordial.
> Don't see any bullying by you or anyone else.




Hang on help has arrived!
In the form of a Kelpie Cross


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## notting (14 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



skc said:


> Love it!!
> You could post a comma and he will try to predict that you are 23 year, Central European with an unhappy marriage,




Definitely unhappy if married at 23.
You have lovely ring-less fingers, however.
Any chance of a date? 
I only drink cordial. 
So no chance of bullying. 
I could give you some trading tips and you could push my mobility chair.



Hey, I'm a good listener.  Buy is 2 dings, sell is 1.


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## Smurf1976 (14 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*

Leverage is a tool which is unwise for anyone without a proven profitable system, either fundamental or technical, to be using in my opinion.

It's a bit like speed in a car. It amplifies the effects of what you do be that profitable or unprofitable. However much you'd profit or lose on a trade, adding leverage increases that relative to your capital base. Great if you're profitable but potentially a disaster if you're not.

You wouldn't put someone behind the wheel of a car for the first time and have them driving at 200 km/h. Well, hopefully you wouldn't as it's a recipe for disaster if (when) they make a mistake. No, you teach them to drive at far slower speeds starting on quiet streets and build up from there.

Same concept with investing and trading. Start small, no leverage, and always remember that the market WILL be there tomorrow. It's better to miss out on a few profits than to wipe yourself out with huge losses and put yourself out of the game. Just like it's better to learn to drive at 40 km/h and cause no real harm rather than learning to drive on a race track and ending up dead. Same with anything, start small and build up from there. 

Just my opinion based on personal experience.


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## Kelly (14 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Smurf1976 said:


> Leverage is a tool which is unwise for anyone without a proven profitable system, either fundamental or technical, to be using in my opinion.




You are completely correct, and I know that now! 
It's dodgy how CFD's are marketed as something for beginners with no experience.


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## tech/a (14 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Kelly said:


> You are completely correct, and I know that now!
> It's dodgy how CFD's are marketed as something for beginners with no experience.




Leverage is fine provided you know how to diminish risk.


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## cynic (14 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



tech/a said:


> Leverage is fine provided you know how to diminish risk.




Quite true. The problem is that newcomers, by definition, are unlikely to have gained that level of experience.

Ofttimes the marketers, themselves, have minimal understanding of the products they actively promote.


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## Smurf1976 (14 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



tech/a said:


> Leverage is fine provided you know how to diminish risk.




Agreed with your statement but in the context of a beginner I'd say that the chance is fairly high that they'll make a serious % loss at some point. 

Same with anything really. Beginners make mistakes and keeping the money, speed, voltage, or whatever down will limit the damage when it goes wrong. Just my opinion.


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## tech/a (14 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*

Well at least the OP now knows 
What to learn if she wants to
Continue using leverage


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## CanOz (14 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Kelly said:


> You are completely correct, and I know that now!
> It's dodgy how CFD's are marketed as something for beginners with no experience.




Kelly, don't be deterred by the suspicious attitude here. Over the years we've had a few 'newbie's' that just want to prey on unsuspecting beginners. ASF has allot to offer and you are welcome here, regardless of the first impressions!

Why not start a new thread on how you managed you increase your account. 

We don't have many women member here that trade intra-day, so it would be good if you can stay and make a real go of it.

Regardless, good luck.

CanOz


----------



## Joules MM1 (14 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



skc said:


> Love it!!
> 
> BTW Gringott's Bank has a habit ........
> 
> And he's most usually wrong, just like his trading




+1


----------



## Gringotts Bank (14 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*

All the 'grinning haters' crawling out of the woodwork.  And they seem to think they know my trading account details.  

Just goes to show - you think you know someone after years of posting, then they attack out of the blue.  No wonder I'm skeptical.


----------



## minwa (14 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Gringotts Bank said:


> Trading requires one to see through the BS, and I'm simply exercising my discretion and a bit of intuition.




After a bit of playing around I agree with you..


Demo and Real have same website URL. 




Kelly's hand conveniently just blocks out the icon below Closed Positions..however a bit is exposed shows a BLUE ICON.




A blue icon is demo account. A LIVE account is GREEN





Be more careful trolling next time.


----------



## Gringotts Bank (15 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



minwa said:


> After a bit of playing around I agree with you..
> 
> 
> Demo and Real have same website URL.
> ...




He went to quite a bit of effort, but there were signs+ all along.  I won't mention the signs because he will be back later on with a new screen name and he's dumb enough to repeat them.

Thanks for your efforts and the confirmation minwa.  Glad I stuck to my bets.

I'm pretty sure I know who it is too.


----------



## CanOz (15 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Gringotts Bank said:


> He went to quite a bit of effort, but there were signs+ all along.  I won't mention the signs because he will be back later on with a new screen name and he's dumb enough to repeat them.
> 
> Thanks for your efforts and the confirmation minwa.  Glad I stuck to my bets.
> 
> I'm pretty sure I know who it is too.





What's the motive


----------



## tech/a (15 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



CanOz said:


> What's the motive




I'd say self esteem


----------



## CanOz (15 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



tech/a said:


> I'd say self esteem




I guess I'm very naive....I always expect people to be honest, it's something I just can't seem to get rid of!


----------



## barney (15 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Kelly said:


> I am not one to be ashamed of my mistakes, regret sure, but I have no problem talking about it, I think it makes you feel better.
> I'm not one of those people who only brags about the 'good things'.




Kelly,

Whether you are trading Demo or Real is only a side issue to me personally, but having a "gambling is fun" attitude is not normal for real traders which is why I called it like I saw it.

For your sake I hope it is a Demo account!!

Bottom line is you are obviously interested in trading so my suggestion is, if it is Demo money just tell it like it is and people will respect that.  If its real money, you need to stop gambling because you will end up losing the lot!

Cheers.


----------



## Klogg (15 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



minwa said:


> After a bit of playing around I agree with you..




Well played sir. 

I fall into the naive camp I guess (for the same reasons as CanOz)


----------



## tech/a (15 September 2016)

Left your camp guys many years ago.
But while I always take people at face value
once I start hearing stuff that is out of normality
for 90% of the human race (23 lost $42,000)

The Sceptic returns.
Don't think I'm alone


----------



## cynic (15 September 2016)

Had the hand been better positioned, the tell tale icon would have been completely obscured. 

Whilst I share some of the embarrassment at having been duped, I did find "Kelly"'s participation very entertaining nonetheless.

The unfortunate thing about situations like this, is it will likely result in some of the more exceptional future contributors having a harder time establishing their credibility.


----------



## tech/a (15 September 2016)

cynic said:


> Had the hand been better positioned, the tell tale icon would have been completely obscured.
> 
> Whilst I share some of the embarrassment at having been duped, I did find "Kelly"'s participation very entertaining nonetheless.
> 
> The unfortunate thing about situations like this, is it will likely result in some of the more exceptional future contributors having a harder time establishing their credibility.




They say fact is often more interesting than fiction.
Its even better when you get both!


----------



## notting (15 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



CanOz said:


> I guess I'm very naive....I always expect people to be honest, it's something I just can't seem to get rid of!




That's not something to get rid of, it's a good quality.
Having an open heart and taking people as they come is not only a good quality it also helps you see through the charade quickly and good honest people will like the way you respond to them with the same openness and genuineness.
Once the rather sad individual, that has to spend all this awkward time putting up a big charade, thinks you are a sucker they underestimate you and give themselves away surprisingly quickly and you can move on!
If you are more guarded they are more cautious about what they reveal!
So the truth comes out quick and easy when you have an open honest heart 
No problem!


----------



## PennD (15 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



notting said:


> That's not something to get rid of, it's a good quality.
> Having an open heart and taking people as they come is not only a good quality it also helps you see through the charade quickly and good honest people will like the way you respond to them with the same openness and genuineness.
> Once the rather sad individual, that has to spend all this awkward time putting up a big charade, thinks you are a sucker they underestimate you and give themselves away surprisingly quickly and you can move on!
> If you are more guarded they are more cautious about what they reveal!
> ...




Nice!!!


----------



## UMike (15 September 2016)

Shout out to my Cuzzies at Doveton Rugby League club. (aptly named the Steelers)

They're looking for sponsors... 10% of that 43k would be nice.

Might even get naming rights on the jerseys.

The "Ned" Kelly Steelers.  LOL


----------



## CanOz (15 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



notting said:


> That's not something to get rid of, it's a good quality.
> Having an open heart and taking people as they come is not only a good quality it also helps you see through the charade quickly and good honest people will like the way you respond to them with the same openness and genuineness.
> Once the rather sad individual, that has to spend all this awkward time putting up a big charade, thinks you are a sucker they underestimate you and give themselves away surprisingly quickly and you can move on!
> If you are more guarded they are more cautious about what they reveal!
> ...




Thanks Notting...my wife thinks i'm just a poor judge of character!


----------



## cynic (15 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



CanOz said:


> Thanks Notting...my wife thinks i'm just a poor judge of character!



Does she realise what that says about herself?


----------



## notting (15 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



CanOz said:


> Thanks Notting...my wife thinks i'm just a poor judge of character!




Oooh there's a line there!! But safer just to give her a


----------



## Kelly (15 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



minwa said:


> After a bit of playing around I agree with you..
> 
> Demo and Real have same website URL.
> 
> ...




Sorry, you are INCORRECT again!

BLUE icon is a LIVE account. BLUE icon is also DEMO account, you have obviously taken your screenshot from a tutorial with an old version.
I do apologise for not checking where my hand was! lol






DEMO:



LIVE:


----------



## cynic (15 September 2016)

Wow! 

This is better than an intricate mystery novel with the last few pages missing!  Just when ya think ya know who's doing what to whoever's whatsits, there's another twist in the storyline!


----------



## minwa (15 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Kelly said:


> Sorry, you are INCORRECT again!
> 
> BLUE icon is a LIVE account. BLUE icon is also DEMO account, you have obviously taken your screenshot from a tutorial with an old version.
> I do apologise for not checking where my hand was! lol




That's interesting a platform would update its version with only just one color icon change (especially quite an important distinction of live/demo) while everything else stayed the same. If so then I am incorrect indeed (but don't know about the "again" part - that was my first post in this thread.). It was the only screenshot I could find of a live account.


----------



## Kelly (15 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



minwa said:


> (but don't know about the "again" part - that was my first post in this thread.)




Sorry minwa, that wasn't a reply solely to you (I was too lazy to quote all the others). 
I'm not a guy, not a troll, not a demo account...


----------



## CanOz (15 September 2016)

So then you cut your losses on the asx200 trade by the look of it?

Can you share with us, the rest of your story? When you started trading etc.? How you built that account up?


----------



## barney (15 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Kelly said:


> Sorry, you are INCORRECT again!
> 
> 
> I do apologise for not checking where my hand was! lol





Kelly, 

Just to confirm .... your account is real ... you let a bad trade turn into a $47,000 loss when you removed a $10,000 stop ... and you feel vindicated because you've proven several professional traders on this site errant in their summation of your indiscretions??

Don't get me wrong ... I'm not judging ... In fact I probably know better than most how this kind of position feels.  I lost a large amount (your amount pales in comparison) on one bad trade several years ago in a matter of a couple of weeks, but never at any stage did I feel anything other than devastated and depressed for several months .... 

So when I see someone/you/anyone reacting the way you are in relation to those who are questioning the logic of your current scenario, I am genuinely concerned because your mindset is ALL wrong. 

Forget the bravado and take responsibility for your actions .... How me or anyone reacts to your trading on this site is totally unimportant.  What matters is that you work out why you ended up in your current predicament and work out how not to let it happen again ...... If you don't, you will simply become another trading statistic.

You might feel fortunate in one way that you made a good profit before you made your large loss because the loss technically doesn't feel like a loss (Houses money right ....wrong!)  Many of us have done the same thing ... Beginners luck can actually be a curse as it builds false confidence ..... 

At this point in time, you need to admit you are a bad trader and stop trading amounts which don't reflect your ability ... Simples!  .... 

Hope that helps and genuinely all the best


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## VSntchr (16 September 2016)

Lol at the photo having the finger again.
Whilst this thread has been great entertainment for me, I truly hope that lessons are being learnt - not only by those involved but also by the innocent lurkers.

Just when you think you have the market on a string, it can change...and it won't hesitate to give the proverbial finger to your account and fast. Trade small, stick to your risk management plan (hint: make sure you have one) and if you really have an edge then it will show over time through repetition and application of your rules.


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## PennD (16 September 2016)

If we get to 5350 I would start scaling out of the position. By 5440 (if we get there?) I would want to be completely out and looking for next trade. Good luck!


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## CanOz (16 September 2016)

PennD said:


> If we get to 5350 I would start scaling out of the position. By 5440 (if we get there?) I would want to be completely out and looking for next trade. Good luck!



Going by the pl I'm guessing she's already out....?


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## mcgrath111 (16 September 2016)

One of the best threads I've read in a while. I hope you continue to post on ASF, and hopefully on the profitable side of things (Y)


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## PennD (16 September 2016)

CanOz said:


> Going by the pl I'm guessing she's already out....?



Its showing closed possitions... cant see it in there...
The rest of her trades are lookin good!


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## ggkfc (16 September 2016)

Looks like she's killing it, except for the big one


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## notting (16 September 2016)

PennD said:


> Its showing closed possitions... cant see it in there...
> The rest of her trades are lookin good!




Kelly if you hang around mabye take more notice of the posts with high numbers (unlike the above ).  They know how to survive!!

You shouldn't feel bad having lost as a newbie to trading It's a courageous thing to reveal too - 



> Here's an embarrassing statistic for high-paid fundies: less than 10 per cent of active managers beat the S&P 500 index over the past five years.




Understand fast that most of what you hear the market promises are lies, it's a place where money is lost not made by most who play it!
That's the kind of mental set up you need............


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## PennD (16 September 2016)

notting said:


> Kelly if you hang around mabye take more notice of the posts with high numbers (unlike the above ).  They know how to survive!!
> 
> You shouldn't feel bad having lost as a newbie to trading It's a courageous thing to reveal too -
> 
> ...




Fair enough... high risk and beginners luck will only get you so far.
But the high numbers bit... some of the posters here with the highest numbers im quite dubious of...


----------



## Porper (16 September 2016)

PennD said:


> Fair enough... high risk and beginners luck will only get you so far.
> But the high numbers bit... some of the posters here with the highest numbers im quite dubious of...




Most who fail after several years won't bother posting on a forum like this. Mostly, I'd say the long term posters will be profitable...just my take on it.


----------



## PennD (16 September 2016)

PennD said:


> Fair enough... high risk and beginners luck will only get you so far.
> But the high numbers bit... some of the posters here with the highest numbers im quite dubious of...






Porper said:


> Most who fail after several years won't bother posting on a forum like this. Mostly, I'd say the long term posters will be profitable...just my take on it.




Sorry, I should of put "some" in bold. Just going by the way she has been treated these last few days. Haven't been here in 6 months and this is the first post i come across and somehow i was pulled into the drama... lessons learned.


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## tech/a (16 September 2016)

ggkfc said:


> Looks like she's killing it, except for the big one




It only takes 1

My advice which I mentioned before is 
to learn how to mitigate risk.

This trade with what you can afford to 
lose is plain rubbish.

Learn how to develop a trading blue print of your trading method.
That way if its going off the rails you can see when and where
and more than likely why its happening.


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## Joules MM1 (16 September 2016)

tech/a said:


> It only takes 1
> 
> My advice which I mentioned before is
> to learn how to mitigate risk.




the duck's pretty much got the booyah moment in the thread

the opening posts show the trader was trading the money not the trade ....the mere idea of asking a social media site whether pumping more funds into an account to support a losing position is exactly adding-to-a-loser only with cash not more contracts  (and thankyou PTJ)

side note:
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/tag/winning-with-plus500/
hat tip to rmv__ for the find


----------



## Joules MM1 (16 September 2016)

detective novel?

 wait, there's.....



			
				rvm said:
			
		

> rvm
> 2016-Sep-16 22:02:51
> I love this -- http://www.ft.com/fastft/429231/plus500-down-21-after-playtech-deal-collapses
> rvm
> ...




https://www.tradingfloorchat.com/room/5-stock-chat


----------



## rvm (17 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



barney said:


> Kelly,
> 
> Just to confirm .... your account is real ... you let a bad trade turn into a $47,000 loss when you removed a $10,000 stop ... and you feel vindicated because you've proven several professional traders on this site errant in their summation of your indiscretions??
> 
> ...



That reminds me of me!

Lost 125% of my initial 5 figure account on a single trade - all in few days. I had added more money in the 'hope' that the losing trade would swing the other way. Couldn't sleep while I was leveraged to the hilt and the price would swing by few thousands. Finally, I couldn't stand the pain and closed the trade and went to bed. It was the first time I could sleep peacefully. 

The weeks after I couldn't push any buttons and make trades. I took couple of weeks off and did not trade. Later, when I did, my confidence was completely crushed and I would trade micro contracts. Took me couple of years of slow trading to make up the numbers. Luckily, I had good friends and who helped me focus on trading rather than money.

Anybody who tells me that they can handle 50K loss without emotional setback is a lying through the teeth. One must be filthy rich and fails to understand the value of money or an ignoramus to suffer such senseless loss and treat it as 'cost' of trading.


----------



## Triathlete (17 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



rvm said:


> That reminds me of me!
> 
> Lost 125% of my initial 5 figure account on a single trade - all in few days. I had added more money in the 'hope' that the losing trade would swing the other way. Couldn't sleep while I was leveraged to the hilt and the price would swing by few thousands. Finally, I couldn't stand the pain and closed the trade and went to bed. It was the first time I could sleep peacefully.
> 
> ...




It all depends on that persons trading account....I would expect that *a smart trader *who has encountered  50k loss would have a minimum account of 2.5 million and closer to 5 million....my opinion only though.....


----------



## tech/a (17 September 2016)

*Re: XAO Banter Thread*



Triathlete said:


> It all depends on that persons trading account....I would expect that *a smart trader *who has encountered  50k loss would have a minimum account of 2.5 million and closer to 5 million....my opinion only though.....




Ha ha
Gets even more fanciful
Anyone with over a Mill didn't
Get there without an understanding
Of money management.

They wouldn't be 23 posting finger
Painting on a forum.


----------



## Kelly (21 September 2016)

CanOz said:


> So then you cut your losses on the asx200 trade by the look of it?
> Can you share with us, the rest of your story? When you started trading etc.? How you built that account up?



I still have the ASX200 position open (now at 29k loss)

I stated trading at the end of July. 
I had absolutely no experience, I just thought it might be fun & I was interested to see if I would be any good at it. Started off small, testing the waters... got a bit more confident and started playing with larger amounts.



rvm said:


> Anybody who tells me that they can handle 50K loss without emotional setback is a lying through the teeth.



I'm wasn't really upset about the 42k loss as it meant I was breaking even, which I was absolutely fine with, seeing it could have been so much worse for a newbie like me.
But I was very upset about being called a fake, troll etc, stating that my trading is so shocking that I can't be real... That's why I posted the photo with the 'finger' ... to say "hey I am real thankyou"



barney said:


> having a "gambling is fun" attitude is not normal for real traders which is why I called it like I saw it.



"gambling can be fun" - that was just me 'trying' to be smart/funny to Klogg who said "If you don't really know, then why are you risking your money?"
I found out CFD trading was referred to a 'gambling' after I already started :-/
My life experience with gambling has been about $100 in pokies, 3 lotto tickets and maybe 5 horse bets.


----------



## Lone Wolf (21 September 2016)

Kelly said:


> I found out CFD trading was referred to a 'gambling' after I already started :-/




Trading CFD's doesn't make you a gambler, no more than other trading methods at least. It's just a tool. But people often use it to gamble due to the high leverage available and low minimum deposits required to start an account.

Trading is a bit like gambling in a casino. Each time a bet is made both the casino and the punter are risking money, nobody knows who will win. So why is a casino a business and the punter a gambler? Because the casino knows it has an edge and it knows what that edge is. It doesn't know if the next bet will win or lose, but it knows that the more bets that get placed, the more money it will ultimately make. The casino approaches the game as a business, the punter approaches the game with nothing but wishful thinking.

I know you got off to a rough start here, but I hope you find some valuable information around this forum (it's certainly there if you look) and learn to approach trading as a profitable business. And although you shouldn't need to rely on it... Good luck.


----------



## Wysiwyg (21 September 2016)

Lone Wolf said:


> Trading CFD's doesn't make you a gambler, no more than other trading methods at least.



Yes it all about having a thorough understanding of risk and having a choker chain on it at all times. Arguably the holy grail of trading.


----------



## barney (22 September 2016)

Kelly said:


> "gambling can be fun" - that was just me 'trying' to be smart/funny to Klogg who said "If you don't really know, then why are you risking your money?"




Its all good .... all your responses make total sense now that I have the full picture  I'm glad you've displayed the ticker to hang around after a bit of a barrage ..... that IS the trait of a trader!

I'm actually more interested in how you accumulated, was it 3 ??  investment properties at such a young age? 





Kelly said:


> I still have the ASX200 position open (now at 29k loss)




You still have some serious decisions to make in the near term methinks ...... people cant give you direct advice but your current position might make an interesting technical analysis training exercise if any of our more advanced techno's would like to jump in and give an opinion  Even better, if you post up how you are likely to handle your current position given the possible scenarios .... that might create some beneficial discussion.  In the short term lets hope this trade works out so you can put it behind you and learn more on the next one ..... with maybe a bit less risk!!!


----------



## Kelly (23 September 2016)

barney said:


> I'm actually more interested in how you accumulated, was it 3 ??  investment properties at such a young age?



Oops, that was an unintentional optimistic typo! 3 properties, 2 are investment. 1 we live in.
Purchased a 3 bedroom townhouse in Noble Park when they were cheap (260k in 2007, now worth 420k) and then another one a couple of years later. My partner of 8 years pays half the repayments. 
I have a boarder who has lived with me for 9 years, before my partner even moved in. He is great, and I'm sure the extra $120 /week plus bills has helped speed the repayments up too.

Maybe it's my smart living that is the key? Shun excessive consumerism, don't waste food, don't buy stuff you don't need, don't throw things away before trying to fix them, and only buy a new car (new '2nd hand') when your old one is pretty much dead!
But we cannot have too many people following this lifestyle, otherwise it will affect the stock market!


----------



## tech/a (23 September 2016)

> they were cheap (260k in*2007*, now worth 420k)




Thought you were 23??

How'd you get a bank loan at 14?
Married at 15?

(Patiently waiting for a full fingered reply)


----------



## Habakkuk (23 September 2016)

tech/a said:


> Thought you were 23??
> 
> How'd you get a bank loan at 14?
> Married at 15?
> ...





You thought wrong. She never said she was 23.


----------



## Kelly (23 September 2016)

They were just having a joke... 
(add 14 years to that!)



skc said:


> BTW Gringott's Bank has a habit to psycho-analyse anyone who posts... You could post a comma and he will try to predict that you are 23 year, Central European with an unhappy marriage, most likely blonde and have a strong desire to be successful due to some childhood issue.
> And he's most usually wrong, just like his trading


----------



## CanOz (23 September 2016)

Kelly said:


> Oops, that was an unintentional optimistic typo! 3 properties, 2 are investment. 1 we live in.
> Purchased a 3 bedroom townhouse in Noble Park when they were cheap (260k in 2007, now worth 420k) and then another one a couple of years later. My partner of 8 years pays half the repayments.
> I have a boarder who has lived with me for 9 years, before my partner even moved in. He is great, and I'm sure the extra $120 /week plus bills has helped speed the repayments up too.
> 
> ...




Interesting Kelly, so tell us about how you started in the market and what guided your trade decisions....Have you read any books? How do you size your positions?


----------



## cynic (23 September 2016)

I am really glad that kelly hasn't allowed the rough introduction to ASF to deter her from continued participation.

The demands placed by a community on proving credibility, whilst an unfortunate necessity at times,  can be a distraction to the newcomer from the somewhat onerous task of deriving profits from the market.

As far as I am concerned, kelly has proven herself to be genuine in a delightfully spirited fashion.

Much as I share others curiosity, and both welcome and relish her continued input, I do hope that kelly doesn't feel obliged to answer all questions posed.

In my opinion, members need to have the freedom to limit the extent of their personal sharing to the confines of their comfort zone.


----------



## captain black (23 September 2016)

Good post cynic.



cynic said:


> As far as I am concerned, kelly has proven herself to be genuine in a delightfully spirited fashion.




+1

A belated welcome to ASF Kelly


----------



## tech/a (23 September 2016)

Kelly said:


> They were just having a joke...
> (add 14 years to that!)




Ok see that now.


----------



## notting (23 September 2016)

Stop saying it was a rough introduction
It was nothing.


----------



## barney (23 September 2016)

Kelly said:


> They were just having a joke...
> (add 14 years to that!)




So 2 Investment properties plus your own live in property at 37 y.o.  ........ I think you're doing ok 


I assume your CFD position is now back in the black ..... If so that is great, but please be careful you don't confuse good fortune with good trading.  Treat this trade as a get out of jail free card and perhaps consider tightening up on the risk from now on  Good luck with it.


----------



## Kelly (5 October 2016)

barney said:


> I assume your CFD position is now back in the black ..... If so that is great, but please be careful you don't confuse good fortune with good trading. Treat this trade as a get out of jail free card and perhaps consider tightening up on the risk from now on  Good luck with it.



Yes, ASX closed off at $15k loss. Then I withdrew all the money I originally deposited into the account plus $23k profit. I was a bit worried as I heard some bad things about Plus500 not paying out, but all is good.
Still have 16k profit sitting in Plus500 to 'play' with, but that could disappear pretty quickly! If it does then I am pretty darn happy I made 23k from my experience, and hope to come back when I learn more about this crazy game! What a roller coaster


----------

