# How do you short the ASX 200 or the All Ords?



## NFuse (28 January 2008)

If I believe that the ASX200/All Ords are going to drop over the next few months, what would be the best way to profit from this if I'm correct?


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## kerosam (28 January 2008)

For me, I'll look at STW (asx code) since I don't have a futures account with Mac Prime.


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## So_Cynical (28 January 2008)

NFuse said:


> If I believe that the ASX200/All Ords are going to drop over the next few months, what would be the best way to profit from this if I'm correct?



U could use CFD's but there prob best used for short term trading...don't know about a few months.


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## Nyden (28 January 2008)

So_Cynical said:


> U could use CFD's but there prob best used for short term trading...don't know about a few months.




Cynical, he wasn't asking for an opinion on the state of the markets :

As mentioned; one way would be to short index funds. Less risky than shorting individual stocks (which can buck the trend); SWT is a good example.

But, you won't get the same drastic results as some individual stocks.


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## Kimosabi (28 January 2008)

In the states they have Inverse ETF's, but I haven't found any Inverse ETF's in Australia yet...


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## >Apocalypto< (28 January 2008)

NFuse said:


> If I believe that the ASX200/All Ords are going to drop over the next few months, what would be the best way to profit from this if I'm correct?




Hi NFuse.

you have a couple ways.

1. Options, you can trade call and put options over the s&pasx200 XJO

2. Warrents I think you can trade warrents over the xjo. but don't quote me as I am really not sure.

2. CFD's  you have 3 main options with cfd's

IG follows the spi at night xjo during the day. ( just like the spi does) but the index price is closer to the xjo. 5 (mini) or 25$ (full) a point. can go long or short.

CMC 1$ a point can go short long follows the same market hours as IG

GFT tiny margins. same times as IG CMC 1$ a point. long and short.

Pacific Continental.
follows the actual xjo 1$ per point 10am open to 4pm close. you can go long and short but check with them as last time I spoke to them a year ago at that moment you could not go short.

for the real thing then Pacific is the way to go. but u pay brokerage and a 2 point spread. IG and CMC only charge 2 point spread.

Last but not least, THE SPI, 

you can go long and short on the future determined value of our top 200 shares. you pay a much higher margins, pay brokerage on each side. mini 5$ and full 25$ available. But study and much research required before thinking about trading futures.

The best one we be what suites your trading plan and level of experience. 

Hope that helps


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## GreatPig (28 January 2008)

Trade_It said:


> Warrents I think you can trade warrents over the xjo



You can, but you're pretty much always dealing with the MMs and they have a tendency to play games at critical times - ridiculous spreads and removing bids and offers for sometimes extended periods of time.

GP


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## NFuse (28 January 2008)

Thank you everyone. Great replies.

I'm leaning towards STW because of my inexperience. It seems the easiest. Am I correct in saying that I won’t be able to do it with my Commsec account? I need a full service broker? Also, does anyone know how much security they would want?

Thanks for your help guys.


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## Aviator33 (29 January 2008)

You can day short sell with Commsec for a minimum $500 order but a heap of other conditions apply such as the price you can short at, can't short at the open etc etc. The list of stocks is also pretty restricted (STW is *not *on the list). You can also term short sell with Commsec but min order is $20K.

Personally, I'd suggest setting up a CFD account with a DMA such as Marketech would be your best option.

Cheers


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## Simon_Purser (19 October 2008)

Hi, I'm new to this site, and read with interest about inverse ETFs. I get Martin Weiss' Money and Markets newsletter which has for over 12 months recommended inverse ETFs. I've read about STW but when I put it in as a stock code with my online broker, it comes up as "not an ASX stock code"
What am I doing wrong here? 
How do I invest in it? 
Is STW affect by Governemtn anti-shorting regulations?

Advice appreciated! Simon


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## Boggo (19 October 2008)

Aviator33 said:


> Personally, I'd suggest setting up a CFD account with a DMA such as Marketech would be your best option.
> 
> Cheers




If you just want the ASX Indices (ie the S&P Indices) then Marketech are good, their spreads are a bit wider than normal at the moment but the service and software are excellent.

Not much use at the moment though with no shorting


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## Sir Burr (23 May 2009)

Hi,

With STW I thought you receive dividends but wondering about trading an Index such as XJO with CFD's.

Do you still receive dividends?

Thanks.


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## skc (24 May 2009)

>Apocalypto< said:


> Pacific Continental.
> follows the actual xjo 1$ per point 10am open to 4pm close. you can go long and short but check with them as last time I spoke to them a year ago at that moment you could not go short.
> 
> for the real thing then Pacific is the way to go. but u pay brokerage and a 2 point spread. IG and CMC only charge 2 point spread.




Do these guys still exist? Are they affiliated with the UK company baring the same name? According to this link they are in liquidation?

http://www.pacconsec.com/


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