# Wikileaks - responsible whistleblower or terrorist organisation?



## $20shoes (6 December 2010)

Julian has got himself into a right pickle. 

What I find even more interesting than the leaks themselves is the official response. It is far too orchestrated; too much like an Orwellian witch-hunt. It is obviously designed to bring pressure to bear on those who support Wikileaks, that it's better to distance oneself from the organisation. 

I see the smear campaign has raised the "sexual assault" allegations that got main street press after the Iraq footage was released. That died down, but the press needed to trot it out again after the latest leaks. Now that that avenue appears dead, they have had to try a new tack - citing Julian an enemy combatant, and at least one politician has labelled him a terrorist. Obviously anyone hosting his site will be considered to be involved in espionage, which is essentially why Amazon acceded to US demands. 

What an extraordinary allegation. 

The response is way overblown. The only thing I can suggest is that governments fear what Julian has in his possession and has yet to release. 

A coordinated Denial of Service attack has been launched against the website: 

_Wikileaks is currently under heavy attack. _
_ In order to make it impossible to ever fully remove Wikileaks from the  Internet, you will find below a list of mirrors of Wikileaks website and  CableGate pages. _

It is ironic to watch the Iraq footage and then listen to the US saying Julian has put our lives in danger. 

Is it just me, or does the response smack of fear and a need to control our response to Wikileaks with obvious Groupthink? _If you support Wikileaks, you're supporting a terrorist....If you think the site is necessary, then your also guilty of putting lives in danger. _


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## prawn_86 (6 December 2010)

I say responsible whistleblower but its amazing how many people disagree.

The more transperancy the better imo


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## noco (6 December 2010)

I wish this fella could break into the NBN business plan and recover the lot instead of a 15 page modified version which I believe is what we will get from the Gillard Government.


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## $20shoes (6 December 2010)

_By Darren Bailey, Barrister and Solicitor of the Supreme Court of South Australia_
 Submitted on 04 December 2010
 Subject: Julian Assange
Dear Prime Minister,
 I wish to strongly associate myself with the letter addressed to you from NSW Supreme Court solicitor Peter Kemp, dated 4 December 2010, concerning the treatment of Mr Julian Assange.
 His rights as an Australian citizen are clearly being infringed and  should be vigorously protected "though the heavens may fall". As this  nation's Prime Minister, and as a lawyer yourself, you ought to know  this fact far better than your official statements would indicate.
 Please address this issue as a matter of urgency. Demonstrate that to be an Australian citizen actually counts for something.
 Sincerely,
 Darren Bailey
Solicitor of the Supreme Court of South Australia
 

----------------------------------------------------
Wikileaks has now been mirrored over 200 times
----------------------------------------------------


Actually thinking about the US response a little more, and how they have set the wheels in motion to discredit Julian as an enemy, it is likely that Cablegate was just the tip of an iceberg that could topple governments and namely the Obama Administration. 



In the coming months, once this has died down, there will be mounting pressure on what exactly was President Obama's role in sanctioning spying by US diplomatic figures on UN officials. 
I have no doubt that Julian is astute enough to have withheld some bargaining chips, and it is an assumption - but perhaps Julian has enough detail to make the President's position untenable.


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## basilio (6 December 2010)

If anyone had made accusations against the American government, or the Chinese, Russians ect along the lines of what has been published through Wikileaks they would have been derided and denied.  There would have been the routine lies and outrage. And of course the perpetuators would have been described as  conspiracy theorists, anti- American/Russiam/Chines whatever.

The trouble happens when the original documents come out as gold plated State Department documents.  "THE TRUTH "

Now the governments are in trouble because the truth is clear. So the only options are to suppress the real truth with whatever means possible, find and kill the  messenger and scare the bejesus out of anyone else who might consider following a similar path.

I think the release of the documents is a truly heroic act. By the way there is a very thoughtful interview with Julian in the Forbes business magazine.  OIne of the very good points he makes is that he wants to punish immoral businesses(through leaks)  and this give more ethical ones a better go. Worth the read.

http://blogs.forbes.com/andygreenberg/2010/11/29/an-interview-with-wikileaks-julian-assange/


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## nukz (6 December 2010)

The Australian government especially Gillard are licking America's boots because we are a pussy country. Obama comes out and denounces Assange but it is only then when Obama first makes comments that Gillard comes out and denounces his actions as well.

Wheather or not his actions are good/bad he is still a Australian citizen and time after time our wimpy government has shown that they don't give a crap about us if we get into trouble overseas. 

Kevin Rudd should basiclly resign as foreign minister if there is any truth to his claims of almost suggesting possible war with China, how on earth can he act as foreign minister and meet with our biggest trade partner now this information is out. I would say the same for Hillary who has been caught up in all sorts of stuff especially claims she was spying on U.N officials. 

The rape/sexual assault allegations in my opinion are complete crap, its all part of a smear campaign to discredit him, it's not the first time this has been done. 

My personal opinion is i'm still unsure why we are being shown this information, what are the motives of the person who has leaked the information. It's interesting to read but it's not that supprising most the information how many people seriously didn't think America wasn't worried about being bankrolled by China.


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## Logique (6 December 2010)

I'd like to place on record that I agree with all the above posts, and bravo to Darren Bailey too. Let's hope his plea to another South Australian lawyer is heard.


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## basilio (6 December 2010)

> By Darren Bailey, Barrister and Solicitor of the Supreme Court of South Australia
> Submitted on 04 December 2010
> Subject: Julian Assange
> Dear Prime Minister,
> ...




I just read the letter that was sent to the PM.  Very thoughtful and  certainly worth reinforcing the message.

I suggest it's worth the visit to the website and considering whether you want to add your comments and also let our Government know that murdering the messenger is not part of our society.


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## basilio (6 December 2010)

*When they came for me...
*

English Translation

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

http://wlcentral.org/node/464


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## Knobby22 (6 December 2010)

*His crime is "sex by surprise".*
i.e. not using a condom after a women requests it - a fine of $515 max in court.

It seems he did wear a condom but it burst and the woman claims he deliberately damaged it so it would burst while they were having sex. Maybe he did.

Hardly Interpol material.

The amazing thing is that he spoke to the prosecuters through his lawyer about doing something about it but they went to interpol anyway - within a week when normally it takes 8 weeks to issue. 
This is the first time that interpol have been used for this crime.

http://specials.msn.com/A-List/Life...r-sex-by-surprise.aspx?cp-documentID=26624498

Here are the woman's translated claims.

http://www.georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2010/12/sex-charges-and-arrest-warrant-against.html

According to this site, she works for the CIA.

http://fromtheleft.wordpress.com/20...ed-with-us-funded-cia-tied-anti-castro-group/


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## DB008 (6 December 2010)

nukz said:


> The rape/sexual assault allegations in my opinion are complete crap, its all part of a smear campaign to discredit him, it's not the first time this has been done.






Knobby22 said:


> *His crime is "sex by surprise".*
> i.e. not using a condom after a women requests it - a fine of $515 max in court.
> 
> It seems he did wear a condom but it burst and the woman claims he deliberately damaged it so it would burst while they were having sex. Maybe he did.
> ...




I have posted the "sex crimes" Wiki Twitter tweet  in "The Conspiracy Theory" thread. Pages 20 and 21. Please have a look. 
Seems like the Swedes have stuffed up his warrant for arrest. Assange will get out of this, no worries.

Here are the links;
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/71lm5i
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/71l2t1
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/71m62q

The Wikileaks cablegate website has also changed to Switzerland (for the moment), so the new address has a .ch at the end of it.
http://www.wikileaks.ch/

List of mirror websites which are updated every hour.
http://www.allyourleakarebelongtous.com/


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## startrader (7 December 2010)

I personally find our government's response to this disgusting.  I also think that other governments' response is dreadful. 

The fact that a senior adviser to the Canadian Prime Minister appeared on CBS News on live TV calling for the assassination of Assange just shows how powerful the establishment thinks they are and how they are used to getting away with things that have been done, up to now, in secret. 

Here is the link to the clip: 
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/un...-canadian-pm-calls-julian-assange-assassinati


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## nulla nulla (7 December 2010)

In Australia I believe we have freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of movement and freedom of the vote.  In the United States of America I believe they have freedom of speech and freedom of the press written into their constitution. 

I fail to see how Wikileaks publishing information on the Internet, that is suplied to them by independant sources, makes them criminals. The parties supplying the information are more likely to be guilty of breaking official secrets acts etc and subject to prosecution.

However, after the experience of former President Nixon with the watergate scandal, you would think that Presidents of the United State of America and or their staff would be more careful about taking the law into their own hands. Afterall if there is one thing that stands the test of time it is..the truth will always come out.

In my opinion, Ms Gillard and the Australian Government have an obligation that the founder of Wikileaks does not suffer the same abondonment that Mr David Hicks did from John Howard and the Liberal National Party Coalition.

At this point in time Australian politicians could do with the type of back bone displayed by the former Prime Minister of New Zealand, Mr Robert Muldoon (piggy) when he suggested the leader of another country might like to consult a taxidermist.


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## Gringotts Bank (7 December 2010)

None of the leaks seem too incriminating yet.  I suppose it's the potential power Assange has over governments that makes them so scared and reactive.  Some UFO cables ready for release.... should be good for a laff!


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## Whiskers (7 December 2010)

nulla nulla said:


> In Australia I believe we have freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of movement and freedom of the vote.  In the United States of America I believe they have freedom of speech and freedom of the press written into their constitution.




That's true, but integral to freedom 'of'... comes responsibility and consequences (good and bad). 



> In my opinion, Ms Gillard and the Australian Government have an obligation that the founder of Wikileaks does not suffer the same abondonment that Mr David Hicks did from John Howard and the Liberal National Party Coalition.




Hicks was one individual mercenary or thrill seeker, a grass root soldier. This guy is quite a few levels up the intellectual and potential harm barometer.



> *I fail to see how Wikileaks publishing information on the Internet, that is suplied to them by independant sources, makes them criminals.* The parties supplying the information are more likely to be guilty of breaking official secrets acts etc and subject to prosecution.




It is quite a serious crime to knowingly recieve stolen goods, even just to be in posession of them. Just being in posession of stolen car for example can land you in jail for a repeat offence. 

Depending on what you then do with the knowingly stolen goods, eg resell for profit, bribery, intimidation, espionarge etc... the 'legal' consequences escalate. 

Take a trading case for example... if an employee gave you inside information and you used that to profit on the market, you face suspension of business licenses, fines, even a jail term.

So you can imagine what Julian is facing for receiving and 'Ã©xploiting' state secrets and other confidential documents if he ends up in the US.

Personally, I think a lot of this stuff is not unknown or surprising and so far will blow over fairly quickly.

My concern and I'm sure our soldiers on the front line in particular, would be concerned that he is or will endanger or effectively ambush them in the field by leaking important intelligance, strategic information and plans.

The other issue is we don't know what (if any) he is or will provide or sell to third parties ( enemies of the state or corporations etc) without openly publishing on Wikileaks. That would make him a dead man walking.

Why didn't he just leak the stuff to the regular press and stay as they say 'a secret informant'? Probably because he's an attention seeker, openly challenging the powers of the wolrd sticking his neck out on a silver platter.


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## nukz (7 December 2010)

Sky news has just started reporting that he has been arrested in London... no more details yet.


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## DB008 (7 December 2010)

*Assange arrested by UK police*

http://www.news.com.au/world/assange-arrested-by-uk-police/story-e6frfkyi-1225967232654

He walked into a UK police station and gave himself up, love the journalism these days.

Guess it should really get interesting now. If he doesn't enter his pass key every "hour - days - (insert time here)", it will go bit-torrent and the whole world will get the release in one go.


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## $20shoes (7 December 2010)

Some things to consider - 

Wikileaks has been in existence since 2006. In that time, its data was happily held by Amazon S3 storage. In that time, Wikileaks has released a myriad of sensitive documents including the war video. There was no talk of a ToS violation 

It is only after the government has exerted muscle recently that Amazon has terminated their hosting service for Wikileaks. That said, they have cited a breach of ToS and not the threat of "espionage" charges. 

section of ToS
-------
 3.4. Termination or Suspension by Us for Cause. We may suspend your right and license to use any individual Service or any set of Services, or terminate this Agreement in its entirety (and, accordingly, your right to use all Services), for cause effective as set forth below:

    3.4.1. Immediately upon our notice to you in accordance with the notice provisions set forth in Section 15 below if:

    [...]

    (vii) we receive notice or we otherwise determine, in our sole discretion, that you may be using AWS Services for any illegal purpose or in a way that violates the law or violates, infringes, or misappropriates the rights of any third party;

-------

Clause vii is very interesting. Let me get back to that point in a moment.

 Paypal also  refused to support Wikileaks, citing a breach of ToS. 

Actually, Paypal and Amazon had to play this card in bowing to govt pressure and  how this might play out is interesting. There is a precedent that has similar overtures now, to what we saw with the demise of AllofMP3.com. This was a site hosted in Russia, and was actually used as a bartering tool by the US: Russia could join the WTO if they shut down AllofMP3. The only problem was that AllofMP3 was a lawabiding company and in a subsequent court case was proved to have paid all royalties to a royalty collection body. Once the US said it had to go though, its days were always numbered. 

One of the methods used to disrupt AllofMP3s customers at the time was to remove the right to pay via Visa and Mastercard citing ToS. Once again, US govt brought pressure to bear on private corporations.  

However, this opened up a huge can of worms. AllofMp3 retaliated - 

_"The company believes the action taken by the world’s largest payment processors is arbitrary, capricious and discriminatory because Visa and MasterCard lack the authority to adjudicate the legality of AllofMP3’s activities and its determination that the company’s activities were illegal is patently erroneous and without legal merit. AllofMP3 has not been found by any court in the world to be in violation of any law."_

We have a very similar situation here. Julian has not been tried in a court of law nor is he yet guilty of using Amazon or  Paypal services for illegal purposes. Therefore, the citing of ToS does not apply until a court ruling has been finalised. 

In the case of AllofMP3 vs VISA - 

Alltunes.com, the Russian musical resource cut off the Visa banking card payment operation has been acknowledged illegal by the Moscow court. Now Visa is at a loss: on the one hand the foreign resources force it to stop operations with Allofmp3.com and its successors, on the other, the Russian court requires resuming the payment operations.
The Moscow Arbitrary Court has satisfied the suit of Internet-Audit, the Alltunes.com musical server owner, to Rosbank, the Russian agent of Visa, the international payment system and its affiliate United Card Services (UCS), the acquiring center. Alltunes is a computer and handset program, which makes it possible to buy digital music at rather liberal prices ($0.15 per song, $ 2 per album).

The server is not connected with iTunes, a popular foreign musical server, but it is of common roots with Allofmp3.com, closed not long ago. In particular, the resources had a joint clients’ base. Last year at the request of the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI), Visa and Mastercard blocked payments through Allofmp3.com first, then through Alltunes, as they were accused of copyright infringement (the two servers operate on the basis of the license from the Russian societies on collective management without direct talks with the copyright holders). Alltunes did not agree to the mentioned decision and sued in court against the above mentioned Visa agents, who carried out the cut off.

Having tried the case, the court determined the unilateral rejection of the defendant to execute the acquiring contract (credit and debit card payment acceptance) concluded with Alltunes illegal. “The court can try the case on the copyright infringement under the exceptional right holder suit. Neither IFPI, nor Visa are such right holders”, - the judicial decision reads.

Visa that was the third party in the procedure told Reuters the passed judgment would not be appealed against. “We intend to proceed cooperation with the Russian Visa member-banks and hunting for an acceptable decision in relation to such resources as Allоfmp3.com and Alltunes.com, their activities considered ambiguous on the part of the RF legislation”, - the payment system representative explains.

I believe Wikileaks is in a position to test this precedent in a court (assuming Amazon S3 data was held in a European bucket). If we look at the clause once again, Amazon may have potentially and erroneously overstepped the mark. They have reached a conclusion untested by courts that the works of Wikileaks is illegal. And if illegal, then it must be illegal in all buckets ( regions of the world, not necessarily US) in which wikileaks could transfer its data.

Paypal also walks a thin line, having as a private entity refused to provide a transaction service on a decision yet to be tested in a court case.

Regardless of your position on these leaks, the interests of Julian are not being looked after. There is a legal decision that needs to be made before shutting down the site ( with mirrors, thats impossible anyway) and infringing on a person's rights. There is prima facie evidence that private corporations may have been breached their own ToS clauses, and if tested has some precedent.
The decision is whether the whistleblower is guilty of publishing state secrets. This of course, occurs in publishing houses of the daily rags all the time. The difference is that journalistic standards would require a documented and verifiable source protected by a confidentiality agreement. Does Julian's work fall into the same camp?


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## doctorj (7 December 2010)

nukz said:


> Sky news has just started reporting that he has been arrested in London... no more details yet.



Apparently due in court later today


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## Julia (7 December 2010)

nulla nulla said:


> I fail to see how Wikileaks publishing information on the Internet, that is suplied to them by independant sources, makes them criminals. The parties supplying the information are more likely to be guilty of breaking official secrets acts etc and subject to prosecution.



You'd have to think that if Julian Assange has committed a crime (hard to see at this stage), then the various media which have subsequently published his leaks would also be held to have had criminal intent.
Can't see how that could possibly happen and maintain any semblance of 'freedom of the press'.



> In my opinion, Ms Gillard and the Australian Government have an obligation that the founder of Wikileaks does not suffer the same abondonment that Mr David Hicks did from John Howard and the Liberal National Party Coalition.



I understand what you're getting at here, but find it impossible to view Assange and Hicks as being in remotely similar situations.




> At this point in time Australian politicians could do with the type of back bone displayed by the former Prime Minister of New Zealand, Mr Robert Muldoon (piggy) when he suggested the leader of another country might like to consult a taxidermist.



How funny, did he really!  I must have missed that when I was still living there.  To whom was he referring?




Gringotts Bank said:


> None of the leaks seem too incriminating yet.  I suppose it's the potential power Assange has over governments that makes them so scared and reactive.  Some UFO cables ready for release.... should be good for a laff!



You're right.  It's mostly confirmation of what was either common knowledge or gossip anyway.

I even wonder if the whole thing could have the reverse effect of what Mr Assange is anticipating, and world leaders could sort of 'band together' to dismiss anything that's leaked.  Quite different if he'd stuck to just leaking what came out of the US, but now that he's encompassing stuff from all countries, it might actually be counterproductive.



Whiskers said:


> Hicks was one individual mercenary or thrill seeker, a grass root soldier. This guy is quite a few levels up the intellectual and potential harm barometer.



Agreed.  



> Why didn't he just leak the stuff to the regular press and stay as they say 'a secret informant'? Probably because he's an attention seeker, openly challenging the powers of the wolrd sticking his neck out on a silver platter.



Good point.  Reading a mini bio about him at the weekend, it said even as a young child he was unable to mix, lacked social skills, etc.


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## DB008 (8 December 2010)

Off the BBC



> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11937110
> *
> Wikileaks founder Julian Assange refused bail*
> 
> ...


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## nulla nulla (8 December 2010)

Julia said:


> How funny, did he really!  I must have missed that when I was still living there.  To whom was he referring?.





I believe it was at the time of the Springboks tour at a time when South Africa had been banned from international sport. I googled "Consult a Taxidermist". This is an extract from another forum.." Piggy Muldoon, (of blessed memory; no-one who tells the president of Nigeria to consult a taxidermist can be all bad), had left the country up to its ears in debt"


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## explod (8 December 2010)

Logique said:


> I'd like to place on record that I agree with all the above posts, and bravo to Darren Bailey too. Let's hope his plea to another South Australian lawyer is heard.




My feelings exactly.

Interesting socialogical shift on ASF over the last year or so.   I think discussions seperated to the second page has improved this website enourmously.  Sorry off topic.

Rudd the dudd is an ego freak.

Applaud the publication of the truth.


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## $20shoes (8 December 2010)

Julia said:


> You'd have to think that if Julian Assange has committed a crime (hard to see at this stage), then the various media which have subsequently published his leaks would also be held to have had criminal intent.
> Can't see how that could possibly happen and maintain any semblance of 'freedom of the press'.




Precisely Julia. 

Here for example are all the cables on mainstreet press - 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/series/us-embassy-cables-the-documents

Was listening to Jon Faine this morning. He raised two points - 

1. If I read a cable on air will I be brought to justice? And why can Julian be hounded without breaching any laws, while the press can regurgitate these cables at will without any any reprisal?


2. Keith Murdoch did a very similar thing, reporting from Gallipoli on the incompetence of the British military, and how it was the leaking of this information that that helped put a stop to the campaign. 

From Julian who touches on the Murdoch link:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-...mfortable-truths/story-fn775xjq-1225967241332


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## prawn_86 (8 December 2010)

I think that by putting a face/name to the organistion who releases the leaks it makes it more powerful. If a anonymous whistleblower was just releaseing these to newspapers then it probably wouldnt have the same effect.

By having one centralised location that also releases the leaks (all of them, not just whta the papers decide to publish) it gives others courage to report on it and helps with the marketing/PR side of things


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## explod (8 December 2010)

He walks in gives himself up and then refused bail on the basis that he would skip.

Pretty sure he would not leave the English justice system.  Looks like he would be given life in Aus at the moment (by being handed to the seppos) which was supposed to be based on it.  We have certainly come a long way to nowhere.


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## UBIQUITOUS (8 December 2010)

I think Wikileaks is great! Great entertainment 

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/us-condemns-rudd-20101207-18obr.html



> THE US regards the Foreign Affairs Minister, Kevin Rudd, as an abrasive, impulsive ''control freak'' who presided over a series of foreign policy blunders during his time as prime minister, according to a series of secret diplomatic cables.
> 
> The scathing assessment, detailed in messages sent by the US embassy in Canberra to the secretaries of state Condoleezza Rice and Hillary Clinton over several years, are among hundreds of US State Department cables relating to Australia obtained by WikiLeaks and made available exclusively to the Herald.
> 
> ''Rudd … undoubtedly believes that with his intellect, his six years as a diplomat in the 1980s and his five years as shadow foreign minister, he has the background and the ability to direct Australia's foreign policy. His performance so far, however, demonstrates that he does not have the staff or the experience to do the job properly,'' the embassy observed in November last year.


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## DB008 (8 December 2010)

explod said:


> He walks in gives himself up and then refused bail on the basis that he would skip.
> 
> Pretty sure he would not leave the English justice system.  Looks like he would be given life in Aus at the moment (by being handed to the seppos) which was supposed to be based on it.  We have certainly come a long way to nowhere.





Yep. He's now under lock and key, just how the US wants him. All on a trumped up "didn't use a condom during sex; even though the sex was consensual" charge, in SWEDEN. Funny how one of the persons who laid the chargers is also on the CIA books. Our Australian Government is pathetic at best. 


*WikiLeaks Founder Jailed, Site Future in Doubt  *


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## Julia (8 December 2010)

The comments about Kevvie are too funny!  He will be mortified.

Re Mr Assange's arrest:  we would have to hope that the extradition to Sweden which presumably will happen is not Sweden's acting as a proxy for the USA, i.e. they will then render him to the people who want him most.


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## awg (8 December 2010)

I believe he will soon be disappeared.

Most peeps thing Sweden is the bastion of democracy, but Sweden is the USA's b!tch.

lol, I just heard Julia G praising Kevs performance as foreign minister.

It was so amusing hearing her choke out positive phrases thru clenched teeth.

Tone of voice, priceless


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## prawn_86 (8 December 2010)

awg said:


> It was so amusing hearing her choke out positive phrases thru clenched teeth.




Just one of the many things wrong with our society. Now if you dont like someone, or their work, you can't just say it in case you hurt their feelings.

What a crock


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## Pager (8 December 2010)

He's going to slip on some tea and break his neck soon, that or a mysterious death/suicide in custody, surely.

The Americans in particular are really gunning for him


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## derty (8 December 2010)

I don't think he will be getting out of this, he is Government Enemy No.1.

Lets hope Wikileaks is a bit of a hydra and we see new heads sprout every time one is chopped off.


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## Boggo (8 December 2010)

I heard Alexander Downer being interviewed on the radio this morning.

I agree entirely with his opinion that the problem is not the messenger, the problem is the USA cannot keep its documents and discussions secure which is the least that any diplomat or politician should expect as a minimum.

The yanks really are not doing themselves any favours with their school yard bully tactics, the rest of the world is a wake up to them and the general consensus seems to be that most have had enough if the international support for JA is any indication.


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## basilio (8 December 2010)

An excellent look at what the attack on Wikileeaks means to concepts of freedom of speech.

*
Live with the WikiLeakable world or shut down the net. It's your choice
*
*Western political elites obfuscate, lie and bluster – and when the veil of secrecy is lifted, they try to kill the messenger
*

          o John Naughton
          o guardian.co.uk, Monday 6 December 2010 20.59 GMT

'Never waste a good crisis" used to be the catchphrase of the Obama team in the runup to the presidential election. In that spirit, let us see what we can learn from official reactions to the WikiLeaks revelations.

The most obvious lesson is that it represents the first really sustained confrontation between the established order and the culture of the internet. There have been skirmishes before, but this is the real thing.

And as the backlash unfolds – first with deniable attacks on internet service providers hosting WikiLeaks, later with companies like Amazon and eBay and PayPal suddenly "discovering" that their terms and conditions preclude them from offering services to WikiLeaks, and then with the US government attempting to intimidate Columbia students posting updates about WikiLeaks on Facebook – the intolerance of the old order is emerging from the rosy mist in which it has hitherto been obscured. *The response has been vicious, co-ordinated and potentially comprehensive, and it contains hard lessons for everyone who cares about democracy and about the future of the net.*

*There is a delicious irony in the fact that it is now the so-called liberal democracies that are clamouring to shut WikiLeaks down.*

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentis...c/06/western-democracies-must-live-with-leaks

Some pretty strong comments under the story. Most telling one (I thought) was saying that if Julian Assange gets it watch out for collateral damage !

I believe that this concerted action by America, Australia ect  to destroy Wikileaks and Julian Assange will destroy the legitimacy of the current governments and in fact the current political systems in the eyes of many people.


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## Bintang (8 December 2010)

I have never before considered giving financial support to Wikileaks but now I am going to. 

What follows is from another forum but might be of interest here as well:


Visa suspends all payments to WikiLeaks
PayPal has severed its links with WikiLeaks
Mastercard will follow suit

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...nts-to-wikileaks/story-fn3dxity-1225967318955 

“In the last 24 hours I have seen on the internet an incredible amount of support for Julian Assange and Wikileaks (also some detractors but they are overwhelmingly outnumbered) Obviously this is scaring the s*** out of the ‘powers that be’ so much that they have to stop that support being turned into direct action by way of financial help.

This now just makes me determined to find a way of sending Wikileaks some financial support myself.”

“ The law of unintended consequences.... I've never given to WikiLeaks before... actually, did not give too much thought to how they funded themselves... anyway, if the bastards try to shut them down by squeezing their funding flows, well then that does two things 1. it raises the urgency to get some money to them (and any salesman will tell you that raising urgency helps the money come out of the pocket), and 2. makes me more determined to ensure that I find a way to get some money to them.”

http://wikileaks.ch/support.html  has the relevant details.

So there are two bank transfer options:

Option 1: via Sunshine Press Productions ehf:
SkulagÃƒ ¶tu 19, 101 Reykjavik, Iceland
Landsbanki Islands Account number 0111-26-611010
BANK/SWIFT:NBIIISREXXX
ACCOUNT/IBAN:IS97 0111 2661 1010 6110 1002 80

Option 2: via the not-for-profit Wau Holland Stiftung Foundation:
This support is tax deductible in Germany
Bank Account: 2772812-04
IBAN: DE46 5204 0021 0277 2812 04
BIC Code: COBADEFFXXX
Bank: Commerzbank Kassel
German BLZ: 52040021
Subject: WIKILEAKS / WHS Projekt 04


----------



## wayneL (8 December 2010)

basilio said:


> I believe that this concerted action by America, Australia ect  to destroy Wikileaks and Julian Assange will destroy the legitimacy of the current governments and in fact the current political systems in the eyes of many people.




What legitimacy?


----------



## wayneL (8 December 2010)

basilio said:


> An excellent look at what the attack on Wikileeaks means to concepts of freedom of speech.




A bit of cognitive dissonance from the Grauniad there.

These are the same Fabian martini Marxists who supported the previous authoritarian PC Socialists who created 3000 new criminal offenses out of questionable misdemeanors and outlawed a whole host of freedoms.

It is ironic for that newspaper to squeal about freedom of speech.

Nevertheless, I'm happy they've raised it.


----------



## nukz (8 December 2010)

Australian government are so weak, how can Rudd continue to be foreign minister in any capacity now the whole world including China our biggest trade parner know he has talked about using force aggainst them.

The same could be said for Hillary... i can't imagine how somebody could be more burnt by something but still conmtinue in there same position as secretary of state, there should be some investigations into serious claims that she has spied on UN officials including the UN secretary general. 

Basilio i dont really think this government had any legitimacy at all from the get go, we got a prime minister who cant open her mouth unless Obama gives the go ahead, just absorlutely no balls at all, to some extent i fear comments from Rudd to Hillary regarding China could be very damaging to Australia/China relations. 

I think allot of regular aussies are more outraged at the reaction from the Australian government to one of its own citizens rather than any of the information leak in question.


----------



## awg (8 December 2010)

Pager said:


> He's going to slip on some tea and break his neck soon, that or a mysterious death/suicide in custody, surely.
> 
> The Americans in particular are really gunning for him




The Brits are under the pump now, they would want him dead!

Even more so than Sweden.

The poor bastard must be out of his mind with worry, 

prison would represent a good opportunity to get at him

its very surprising to me that they (USA) didnt deal with him ages ago

took their eye of the ball again


----------



## Logique (8 December 2010)

Julia said:


> The comments about Kevvie are too funny!  He will be mortified...



He he. 

The power of the internet is going to be unleashed on this one. The world online community will champion Assange.

Settle in ASF Mods, this thread's going 10 pages minimum.


----------



## DB008 (8 December 2010)

awg said:


> The poor bastard must be out of his mind with worry,
> 
> prison would represent a good opportunity to get at him
> 
> ...





l think this is where the term, s***ing bricks comes from.


----------



## drsmith (8 December 2010)

Bearing in mind Julia Gillard's comments about Mr Assange's website, is the following one stone aimed at two birds ?

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/te...-wikileaks-its-your-fault-20101208-18pij.html


----------



## wayneL (8 December 2010)

Logique said:


> He he.
> 
> The power of the internet is going to be unleashed on this one. The world online community will champion Assange.
> 
> Settle in ASF Mods, this thread's going 10 pages minimum.




"They" still have all the guns though...

...'cept in America where the ol' boys are itching to shoot up the new socialist reality.


----------



## Whiskers (8 December 2010)

prawn_86 said:


> I think that by putting a face/name to the organistion who releases the leaks it makes it more powerful. *If a anonymous whistleblower was just releaseing these to newspapers then it probably wouldnt have the same effect.*By having one centralised location that also releases the leaks (all of them, not just whta the papers decide to publish) it gives others courage to report on it and helps with the marketing/PR side of things




If the cause and goal is profoundly in the greater public good, then the information alone should carry the cause. 

The problem you have when putting a name behind the Ã­nformation and cause is you give the detractors something to muddy the water with and detract attention from the issue and cause... unless your figure head is a rock solid good example of humanity, truth and justice. Does JA have this pedegree?



nukz said:


> Australian government are so weak, how can Rudd continue to be foreign minister in any capacity now the whole world including China our biggest trade parner know he has talked about using force aggainst them.
> 
> The same could be said for Hillary... i can't imagine how somebody could be more burnt by something but still conmtinue in there same position as secretary of state, there should be some investigations into serious claims that she has spied on UN officials including the UN secretary general.




You seem surprised that this sort of discussion goes on behind closed doors and supposed to be secret. 

In Aus these sort of Ã§abinet discussions are kept secret for about 30years before being opened. You ought to read some of them. 



awg said:


> its very surprising to me that they (USA) didnt deal with him ages ago
> 
> took their eye of the ball again




They are indeed getting sloppy. They are trying to juggle too many 'balls' in the international arena, when they have more than enough on the domestic front to keep them occupied. 



JA new his options were getting pretty thin, hence his decision to take the least worst option and hand himself into the Brit police. Since it was (reportedly) an arrest warrant the sweeds had for him, I'm not surprised (as a point of law) he was refused bail, in fact I'd have been surprised if he was granted bail. 

The US could easily extradite him from England, but as has been mentioned before, their main aim (and I suspect many countries) is to shut him up and his website down. So they will be happy if  Sweeden can pin a criminal charge on him. That normally has the effect of severely limiting his business and travel options... mission almost accumplished for the US.

Now while I applaud whistle blowers and free speech, let's not forget the responsibility that comes with it, ie a greater public good... with little or no collateral damage. It's important to distinguish between a true whistle blower, and say an indiscriminate headline hunter or rabble rouser.

My concern is that JA has not demonstrated a clear 'greater public good' goal, but is (or appears to be) systematically (or effectively) trying to undernine the whole US alliance. That is not smart for an Aussie.

Also, one has to keep in mind if you punch below the belt and kick in the B@!!s you can't expect too much sympathy (at least from the law) when your victims come after you. 

So, if his business is supposed to be uncovering injustice and empowering the little people, I think he has lost the plot a bit, not so much by resorting to reporting multilateral information apparently indiscriminately, but by not demonstrating a sense of any clear 'responsible' goal or objective. 

I'm not an ardent follower, so can someone explain what his objective is in publishing all this information? Is his goal political, some 'greater public good' or is he just in the business of being an attention seeking rabble rouser?


----------



## nukz (8 December 2010)

Whiskers said:


> You seem surprised that this sort of discussion goes on behind closed doors and supposed to be secret.
> 
> In Aus these sort of Ã§abinet discussions are kept secret for about 30years before being opened. You ought to read some of them.




This is not at all surprising to me, but that said once it is revealed than people should resign.

We all knew Rudd had a big mouth with his rat ****er comments previously but to suggest using force and then comments are made public that's something different.


----------



## DB008 (8 December 2010)

Whiskers said:


> The US could easily extradite him from England, but as has been mentioned before, their main aim (and I suspect many countries) is to shut him up and his website down. So they will be happy if  Sweden can pin a criminal charge on him. That normally has the effect of severely limiting his business and travel options... mission almost accomplished for the US.




It doesn't matter what happens with his website, the cable documents have already been shared amongst the Wiki family. A few cable documents have also been sent to journo's (albeit encrypted), and the pass key will be published if he is harmed (aka, killed). USA is in between a rock and a hard place.

Every nation have their secrets, but look at the good that has come out of this, like the cover-up by the US military of those innocent journalists that were gunned down. What a joke that was! 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article7088548.ece


----------



## prawn_86 (8 December 2010)

Whiskers said:


> I'm not an ardent follower, so can someone explain what his objective is in publishing all this information? Is his goal political, some 'greater public good' or is he just in the business of being an attention seeking rabble rouser?




As far as i can tell he just wants transperancy among governments.

Remember all he is doing is facilitating the publishing of these docs. He is not stealing them etc, they are willingly leaked to him from insiders, so im sure each person who does the leak has their own motives.


----------



## Julia (8 December 2010)

nukz said:


> Australian government are so weak, how can Rudd continue to be foreign minister in any capacity now the whole world including China our biggest trade parner know he has talked about using force aggainst them.



Yes, this will matter to China.  Quite different from the gossipy stuff.



> I think allot of regular aussies are more outraged at the reaction from the Australian government to one of its own citizens rather than any of the information leak in question.



Yep, you're right, and hence Kevin Rudd's over the top media saturation today in full damage control about how all consular assistance is being provided to Mr Assange, how the fault lies not with Mr Assange, but with the porous American security, etc etc.

What a total and utter reversal of everything Julia Gillard said a couple of days ago!  Just unbelievable that they can't get together and agree on an overall government response.

It just once again points up the chasm between Gillard and Rudd.  The mutual hatred must be palpable.



awg said:


> The Brits are under the pump now, they would want him dead!
> 
> Even more so than Sweden.
> 
> The poor bastard must be out of his mind with worry,



You'd think so, but in an interview on the 7.30 Report tonight with a journalist who is writing a book about Julian Assange, he said Assange has an immense capacity for focus, and is totally driven about what he believes in.

He must have surely foreseen that what has happened was a clear possibility when he decided to go public with it all, so you'd have to assume he feels he has the capacity to withstand the pressures.



> prison would represent a good opportunity to get at him



I actually disagree with this.  He represents such an obvious target that my guess is that he will be well protected.  The fall out and consequent total martyrdom of Assange, should he be, um, eliminated, would set off riots everywhere.



> its very surprising to me that they (USA) didnt deal with him ages ago
> 
> took their eye of the ball again



How exactly do you think the US could have 'dealt with him', awg?


----------



## Whiskers (9 December 2010)

DB008 said:


> It doesn't matter what happens with his website, the cable documents have already been shared amongst the Wiki family. A few cable documents have also been sent to journo's (albeit encrypted), and the pass key will be published if he is harmed (aka, killed). USA is in between a rock and a hard place.




Yeah, there they can't undo what has been published, but I suppose they are looking to prevent an endless stream of stuff ending up in the public domain via him.



> Every nation have their secrets, but look at the good that has come out of this, like the cover-up by the US military of those innocent journalists that were gunned down. What a joke that was!




True again.

But surely these types of issues and his status would be more profound and respected in the public eye if he was more selective in the stuff he published, ie not go getting all the free world off side in the process.

What inevetiably happens when you get in a huge international brawl is truth and justice are usually the first casualties and the strongest hand prevails for the day to put whatever spin suits them on the event.

*I just think he'd have been smart to have sat on most of the bycatch, to save a couple of friends (free world countries) eg Aus and or Britan for a rainy day (like now) *until he achieved his primiary aim from the US data, especially since he started  highlighting US war indiscretions. That's one hell of a hot issue that surely he didn't imagine they would sit back and do nothing to stop him!


----------



## Bintang (9 December 2010)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/08/mastercard-hackers-wikileaks-revenge

In revenge for cutting off online donations to Wikileaks hackers have launched attacks on the websites of Mastercard and PayPal and Visa will probably be next.

Could this be the start of Cyber World War?


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## Julia (9 December 2010)

Great summary by Barrie Cassidy about the Wikileaks comments on Kevin Rudd.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/12/08/3088164.htm?site=thedrum

Also fascinating to hear on early morning news that Mark Arbib has been a prime source of information to the Americans for 'some years'.


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## nukz (9 December 2010)

So Mark Arbib was a key figure who took down Rudd at the same time a spy for the US while the US have stated that Rudd is basiclly a loose cannon....

Do we have possible US involvement in the Rudd government overthrow?


----------



## $20shoes (9 December 2010)

Whiskers said:


> Y
> 
> 
> *I just think he'd have been smart to have sat on most of the bycatch, to save a couple of friends (free world countries) eg Aus and or Britan for a rainy day (like now) *until he achieved his primiary aim from the US data, especially since he started  highlighting US war indiscretions. That's one hell of a hot issue that surely he didn't imagine they would sit back and do nothing to stop him!




You know, I think from Julian's viewpoint there is less moral ambiguity in being indiscriminate, than picking and choosing who his targets are. 

Even from their about page, you can see they have broken stories across a broad range of issues:

*2. WikiLeaks' journalism record*

*2.1 Prizes and background*

    WikiLeaks is the winner of:
the 2008 Economist Index on Censorship Freedom of Expression award
the 2009 Amnesty International human rights reporting award (New Media)
WikiLeaks has a history breaking major stories in major media outlets  and robustly protecting sources and press freedoms. We have never  revealed a source. We do not censor material. Since formation in 2007,  WikiLeaks has been victorious over every legal (and illegal) attack,  including those from the Pentagon, the Chinese Public Security Bureau,  the Former president of Kenya, the Premier of Bermuda, Scientology, the  Catholic & Mormon Church, the largest Swiss private bank, and  Russian companies. WikiLeaks has released more classified intelligence  documents than the rest of the world press combined. 
*2.2 Some of the stories we have broken*
War, killings, torture and detention
Government, trade and corporate transparency
Suppression of free speech and a free press
Diplomacy, spying and (counter-)intelligence
Ecology, climate, nature and sciences
Corruption, finance, taxes, trading
Censorship technology and internet filtering
Cults and other religious organizations
Abuse, violence, violation
*War, killings, torture and detention *
 Changes in Guantanamo Bay SOP manual (2003-2004) - Guantanamo Bay's main operations manuals
 Of Orwell, Wikipedia and Guantanamo Bay - In where we track down and expose Guantanamo Bay's propaganda team
 Fallujah jail challenges US - Classified U.S. report into appalling prison conditions in Fallujah
 U.S lost Fallujah's info war - Classified U.S. intelligence report on the battle of Fallujah, Iraq
 US Military Equipment in Iraq (2007) - Entire unit by unit equipment list of the U.S army in Iraq
 Dili investigator called to Canberra as evidence of execution  mounts - the Feb 2008 killing of East Timor rebel leader Reinado
 Como entrenar a escuadrones de la muerte y aplastar revoluciones de  El Salvador a Iraq - The U.S. Special Forces manual on how to prop up  unpopular government with paramilitaries
*Government, trade and corporate transparency *
 Change you can download: a billion in secret Congressional  reports - Publication of more than 6500 Congressional Research Reports,  worth more than a billion dollars of US tax-funded research, long sought  after by NGOs, academics and researchers
 ACTA trade agreement negotiation lacks transparency - The secret  ACTA trade agreement draft, followed by dozens of other publications,  presenting the initial leak for the whole ACTA debate happening today
 Toll Collect Vertraege, 2002 - Publication of around 10.000 pages  of a secret contract between the German federal government and the Toll  Collect consortium, a private operator group for heavy vehicle tolling  system
 Leaked documents suggest European CAP reform just a whitewash - European farm reform exposed
 Stasi still in charge of Stasi files - Suppressed 2007  investigation into infiltration of former Stasi into the Stasi files  commission
 IGES Schlussbericht Private Krankenversicherung, 25 Jan 2010 -  Hidden report on the economics of the German private health insurance  system and its rentability
*Suppression of free speech and a free press *
 The Independent: Toxic Shame: Thousands injured in African  city, 17 Sep 2009 - Publication of an article originally published in UK  newspaper The Independent, but censored from the Independent's website.  WikiLeaks has saved dozens of articles, radio and tv recordings from  disappearing after having been censored from BBC, Guardian, and other  major news organisations archives.
 Secret gag on UK Times preventing publication of Minton report into  toxic waste dumping, 16 Sep 2009 - Publication of variations of a  so-called super-injunction, one of many gag-orders published by  WikiLeaks to expose successful attempts to suppress the free press via  repressive legal attacks
 Media suppression order over Turks and Caicos Islands Commission of  Inquiry corruption report, 20 Jul 2009 - Exposure of a press gagging  order from the Turks and Caicos Islands, related to WikiLeaks exposure  of the Commission of Inquiry corruption report
 Bermuda's Premier Brown and the BCC bankdraft - Brown went to the Privy council London to censor the press in Bermuda
 How German intelligence infiltrated Focus magazine - Illegal spying on German journalists
*Diplomacy, spying and (counter-)intelligence *
 U.S. Intelligence planned to destroy WikiLeaks, 18 Mar 2008 -  Classified (SECRET/NOFORN) 32 page U.S. counterintelligence  investigation into WikiLeaks. Has been in the worldwide news.
 CIA report into shoring up Afghan war support in Western Europe, 11  Mar 2010 - This classified CIA analysis from March, outlines possible  PR-strategies to shore up public support in Germany and France for a  continued war in Afghanistan. Received international news coverage in  print, radio and TV.
 U.S. Embassy profiles on Icelandic PM, Foreign Minister, Ambassador  - Publication of personal profiles for briefing documents for U.S.  officials visiting Iceland. While lowly classified are interesting for  subtle tone and internal facts.
 Cross-border clashes from Iraq O.K. - Classified documents reveal destabalizing U.S. military rules
 Tehran Warns US Forces against Chasing Suspects into Iran - Iran  warns the United States over classified document on WikiLeaks
 Inside Somalia and the Union of Islamic Courts - Vital strategy documents in the Somali war and a play for Chinese support
It seems to me that many, and including myself, can't truly grasp what Wikileaks represents, and what is being fought over. This is a major battle with the old establishment. Technology has usurped the old order, and the new kid is saying "nah-uh, this is not how we're going to do it anymore". The old order is screaming "shut it down", and the young are saying "we can't be stopped."

This is a once in a generation civil liberties movement being fought with and about technology. It questions what the internet means to you and me and to our kids and whether it should be controlled; whether it can help democratise on a global scale through transparency. The mass and instant dissemination of information calls into question whether elected leaders truly follow "democratic processes" and, ultimately it strips power away from corrupted officials and processes, and hands the question back to the people - here is some information for you to consider. what do you want to do about it? What is not revolutionary about that?

I wonder if Wikleaks is less about Julian, and more about you and I and what freedoms we want to fight for. I wonder if JA has keenly grasped the political shifts the can result from exploiting information and technology, and whether he means to focus his broad audience on the deeper challenges, and the ugly truth and what rights we want to preserve; and what the internet means for democracy and transparency.

OK computer....

_When I am king you will be first against the wall
With your opinion which is of no consequence at all
What's that, what's that? _

It's an amazing story and it will be taught in schools for years to come...


----------



## sails (9 December 2010)

Julia said:


> Great summary by Barrie Cassidy about the Wikileaks comments on Kevin Rudd.
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/12/08/3088164.htm?site=thedrum
> 
> Also fascinating to hear on early morning news that Mark Arbib has been a prime source of information to the Americans for 'some years'.




I feel the last paragraph by Barrie Cassidy in the link above summed up the legal implications for JA quite well:
(my bolds)



> The Gillard Government is wrong to even hint that Julian Assange might have broken the law. Wrong again to suggest that what he has done is grossly irresponsible. They can no more say that of Assange than they can of the editors of our own newspapers who have done no more and no less than what he has done - passed on information improperly gained by others. *If they want to portray Assange as some sort of traitor, then equally, to be consistent, they have to dismiss the country's editors in the same way*. And of course, they won't.


----------



## moXJO (9 December 2010)

Lol the elephant in the room is now Arbib. Is he 'the spy who shagged Australia' or the 'women’s day' of the political world.


----------



## captain black (9 December 2010)

$20shoes said:


> It seems to me that many, and including myself, can't truly grasp what Wikileaks represents, and what is being fought over. This is a major battle with the old establishment. Technology has usurped the old order, and the new kid is saying "nah-uh, this is not how we're going to do it anymore". The old order is screaming "shut it down", and the young are saying "we can't be stopped."
> 
> This is a once in a generation civil liberties movement being fought with and about technology. It questions what the internet means to you and me and to our kids and whether it should be controlled; whether it can help democratise on a global scale through transparency. The mass and instant dissemination of information calls into question whether elected leaders truly follow "democratic processes" and, ultimately it strips power away from corrupted officials and processes, and hands the question back to the people - here is some information for you to consider. what do you want to do about it? What is not revolutionary about that?
> 
> ...




Great post $20 shoes. You sum up the thoughts of a lot of us "old-timers" who've been saddened by what the internet has become. Wikileaks is a shining light in a world where our true freedoms are constantly eroded. Once again, well done, great post


----------



## prawn_86 (9 December 2010)

captain black said:


> Great post $20 shoes. You sum up the thoughts of a lot of us "old-timers" who've been saddened by what the internet has become. Wikileaks is a shining light in a world where our true freedoms are constantly eroded. Once again, well done, great post




Seconded.

With the technology we have now, there is no reason why elections, referendums, decsions etc cannot be done online with everyone having a proper 'say'.

Look up Senator Online for those who are interested. They are trying to get into power on the basis that people can vote on each senate decision adn they will support the majority of the vote on their website. True democracy


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## nulla nulla (9 December 2010)

prawn_86 said:


> Seconded.
> 
> With the technology we have now, there is no reason why elections, referendums, decsions etc cannot be done online with everyone having a proper 'say'.
> 
> Look up Senator Online for those who are interested. They are trying to get into power on the basis that people can vote on each senate decision adn they will support the majority of the vote on their website. True democracy




Would that be "true Democracy" or just the outpourings of the most organised and vocal group?


----------



## Sean K (9 December 2010)

I am troubled by the potential exposure of 'real' secrets. 

Whether Rudd is a control freak or not is of no consequence.

While I cringe at 'the land of the free' wanting to execute the man for exposing the 'truth' I do hope this ends on a positive note...


----------



## nulla nulla (9 December 2010)

nukz said:


> So Mark Arbib was a key figure who took down Rudd at the same time a spy for the US while the US have stated that Rudd is basiclly a loose cannon....
> 
> Do we have possible US involvement in the Rudd government overthrow?




Reminiscent of the alleged involvement of the CIA in the sacking of the Whitlam Government. Bloody amazing the extent the U.S is prepared to meddle in foreign governments to ensure the protection of their foreign policies, America First.


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## Bintang (9 December 2010)

nulla nulla said:


> Would that be "true Democracy" or just the outpourings of the most organised and vocal group?




What do we have at the moment? Is it better?


----------



## Julia (9 December 2010)

As an offshoot to this discussion, a radio program this evening was posing the question:  "which do you think is more important, transparency or trust?"

It's an interesting question, I think.

Would we not be a more satisfied and happy nation if we genuinely felt we could trust our government?

Given that most of us certainly don't feel any such sense of trust, is the sort of transparency currently being provided by Wikileaks comforting to us in that it's reinforcing all that we've been feeling is wrong, or is it actually increasing our discomfort because it induces a sense of helplessness, an inability to prevent government's gross mismanagement, both in a financial and a moral / ethical sense?


----------



## xyzedarteerf (9 December 2010)

“Operation Payback,” in support of wikileaks.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/12/pro-wikileaks-vigilantes-down-visa-com/


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## Whiskers (10 December 2010)

xyzedarteerf said:


> “Operation Payback,” in support of wikileaks.




I have to say I was pissed off with PayPal freezing up and not working properly over the last few days. Far too much collateral damage for the authorities to forget. Even plays into the hands of tighter internet control advocates. 

Although PayPal has reportedly signed on to transfer money again, I'm not sure Operation Payback is going to further JA's cause in the long run. 

The bottom line is it's quite hypicrotical, resorting to the sort of threatening, intimidation, criminal even terrorist behaviour that Wikileaks aspires to deplore and expose. Talking about trust, honesty  and transparency... do these yahoos stand up and show themselves?

I think the operative word here is vigilantes... and that is not synonymous with the normal interpretation of whistle blower or champion of truth and justice... let alone that word freedom that they bandy around with gay abandon.

I hope someone, (I'd have hoped JA would have condemed resorting to criminal behaviour as he insists he has not)  grabs these little brats and kicks their @rse before they completely descredit the cause and end up on a US or even UN criminal or terrorist list as the title to this thread poses the question.

All too often when you get a bunch of dumb (moral and ethically) little twits gate crashing a party (or going vigilanti) they spoil it (previously relaxed rules and regulations, freedom of movement and association etc) for everyone.


----------



## GumbyLearner (10 December 2010)

This thread should be retitled 

Wikileaks - responsible whistleblower or dumb-as-all-**** share it around to over 2 million United States Federal department employees ?

I know what Chopper Harden the **** Up on Youtube would say


----------



## nulla nulla (10 December 2010)

Bintang said:


> What do we have at the moment? Is it better?




Yes. In my opinion, what we have in Australia is better than what we would have if Government was left soley to the vocal minority.


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## shag (10 December 2010)

they seem pretty responsible with their releases, like the 'critical' infastructure is pretty easily located, and osama n co r going to find it and its weak links if they wished.
it seems trigger happy yanks and useless europeans r more dangerous to our troops.
i loathe rudd but at least he nailed it on the head and showed he wasnt spineless like gillard.
just because hes a bit weird and clever doesnt make a terrorist and deserving of death threats by govenors.
there are many other sites that have released similar info of strategic importance well before wikileaks, like the american organisation of nuclear scientists or similar naming.
buggered if i'd want to go to sweeden too.
the yanks r their own worst enemy sometimes. getting the nsa to take on hackers is not a battle i'd b choosing without good reason.


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## Calliope (10 December 2010)

When Geoffrey Robertson and John Pilger sing Assange's praises it is time to take a step back and look to see where their motives align with Assange's. In my opinion he is a misanthrope whose aim is to spread hatred and distrust among Western democracies.

They say "the truth will set you free." Western diplomacy is based on leaders not telling the truth to other world leaders, i.e. being diplomatic. Wikileak's "transparency" serves only those countries whose agendas are totally secretive.

If Assange's exposures can set free the people of China, North Korea and Iran, I will add my praises to those of his adoring admirers.


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## Knobby22 (10 December 2010)

Whiskers said:


> All too often when you get a bunch of dumb (moral and ethically) little twits gate crashing a party (or going vigilanti) they spoil it (previously relaxed rules and regulations, freedom of movement and association etc) for everyone.




Are you saying that because the US politicians are trying to restrict freedom of movement and association by attacking wikileaks that we would all be better to go along with it and put him in jail so that we would all enjoy relaxed rules of freedom of movement and association???



			
				Calliope said:
			
		

> They say "the truth will set you free." Western diplomacy is based on leaders not telling the truth to other world leaders, i.e. being diplomatic. Wikileak's "transparency" serves only those countries whose agendas are totally secretive..





So you think that knowing the real agenda of our governments is not something us ordinary people should know and we should be happy to be lied to as our governments agendas is not as secretive as China's? I admire your trust.


----------



## RADV (10 December 2010)

basilio said:


> *When they came for me...
> *
> 
> English Translation
> ...




Brilliant!


----------



## Calliope (10 December 2010)

Knobby22 said:


> Are you saying that because the US politicians are trying to restrict freedom of movement and association by attacking wikileaks that we would all be better to go along with it and put him in jail so that we would all enjoy relaxed rules of freedom of movement and association???




Whiskers didn't say that. You have just illustrated how the truth can be distorted to fit your beliefs that Assange is an influence for good, and not mischief.




> So you think that knowing the real agenda of our governments is not something us ordinary people should know and we should be happy to be lied to as our governments agendas is not as secretive as China's? I admire your trust.




We live in a very transparent society. If you want to know what the politicians are doing and saying read the newspapers. As Jon Faine said on the ABC on Wednesday;

"The US is among the most transparent countries on earth. I don't think Julian Assange would have lasted long if he was producing cables out of Russia, for example, or China."


----------



## Knobby22 (10 December 2010)

Calliope said:


> We live in a very transparent society. If you want to know what the politicians are doing and saying read the newspapers. As Jon Faine said on the ABC on Wednesday;
> 
> "The US is among the most transparent countries on earth. I don't think Julian Assange would have lasted long if he was producing cables out of Russia, for example, or China."




True, but there are people, powerful people, who want him removed and are doing their best to hamstrung his organisation. They should not be supported.

What is wrong with knowing that our government, for instance, secretly thinks the Afgan war is pretty much lost when they tell us the opposite?
It is our men dying there.


----------



## Whiskers (10 December 2010)

Knobby22 said:


> Are you saying that because the US politicians are trying to restrict freedom of movement and association by attacking wikileaks that we would all be better to go along with it and put him in jail so that we would all enjoy relaxed rules of freedom of movement and association???




No, I'm not advocating putting him in jail per se, just that the law and justice be equitable, be done and be seen to be done. 

What I'm getting at with JA is if you are going to take the high moral ground with Wikileaks, to justify the greater good in releasing all this stuff, you need to demonstrate that you are what you preach... a better example for society than those you condem. 

Unfortunately, by applauding and encouraging (by default) these vigilanti type activities against those who choose (for whatever reason) not to support him, he is decending into the same depths of immoral and unjust behaviour that he supposedly condems, ie hypiticritical.

People are too easily led into misbeliefs and wrong decisions by slick advertising and politicans, eg WMD's being justification for swift military action against Sadam. Similarly vocal minorities usually have their own hidden adgenda to emotively move people into doing something that in the calm of day they may not ordiniarly do. Pretty much like 'Push Polling', where you load the question and the immediatly available information to get the result you want in a hurry.



> So you think that knowing the real agenda of our governments is not something us ordinary people should know and we should be happy to be lied to as our governments agendas is not as secretive as China's? I admire your trust.




I think what we need to keep in mind here is it's not a perfect world and 'Freedom' as we know it in the western world is not a given that just happens in a vacum... our freedom was hard fought for and to preserve that freedom some things are better not in the public domain where it is automatically knowledge and power to the radicals, extremists and dictators etc who would takeover the 'Free World' given half a chance. Some people have short memories of the likes of Saddam, East Temor, the Faulklands and Hitler, just to name a few.

Personally, I respect the right to be a whistle blower and be afforded the approperiate protection and respect, but unfortunately, JA seems to have either lost his perspective or control and while I certainly hope it is not his intention, it's certainly starting to become the effect...



Calliope said:


> ...to spread hatred and distrust among Western democracies.




I also endorse Calliope's comments here. 



> They say "the truth will set you free." Western diplomacy is based on leaders not telling the truth to other world leaders, i.e. being diplomatic. Wikileak's "transparency" serves only those countries whose agendas are totally secretive.
> 
> If Assange's exposures can set free the people of China, North Korea and Iran, I will add my praises to those of his adoring admirers.




What he and his vigilanti, push poll loud minority may not comprehend is they are going a good way to play into the hands of those who would overthrow our free world... then again how often haven't we seen those extremists infiltrate our free world, abuse the freedoms that we have and avail them, but they would not allow under their rule if they got their way to rule us.




Knobby22 said:


> True, but there are people, powerful people, who want him removed and are doing their best to hamstrung his organisation. They should not be supported.




I agree in general. But the question now is whether JA has crossed the line too far and causing too much damage to the security and stability of the free world that he needs to be curtailed to some degree.



> What is wrong with knowing that our government, for instance, secretly thinks the Afgan war is pretty much lost when they tell us the opposite?
> It is our men dying there.




Idealistically I agree here too, but I think we can gauge that pretty well for ourselves without hanging it out on a banner that the fundamental extremists and terrorists can play up to garner support amongst their captive audiance, the poor backward parts of the world that sensor the information that their population sees and hears, the breeding grounds of new generations of extremists like Al Qaeda, the Taliban, not to mention the North Korean nutters.

For me it becomes an endless circle if we hand out propaganda gifts like that to these people to use to further the cause that our soldiers are dying to protect us from. That circle has to be broken, at least in part by keeping some things or peoples opinion confidential.


----------



## prawn_86 (10 December 2010)

Whiskers said:


> For me it becomes an endless circle if we hand out propaganda gifts like that to these people to use to further the cause that our soldiers are dying to protect us from. That circle has to be broken, at least in part by keeping some things or peoples opinion confidential.




Perhaps the cirlce is being broken by making our politicians more accountable, therefore they will think more about their actions in the future...


----------



## Knobby22 (10 December 2010)

Whiskers said:


> For me it becomes an endless circle if we hand out propaganda gifts like that to these people to use to further the cause that our soldiers are dying to protect us from. That circle has to be broken, at least in part by keeping some things or peoples opinion confidential.




I see where you are coming from Whiskers. The propaganda point is an interesting one. 

I agree that some of these facts could be used for propaganda purposes.
There is a lot of propgada happening in the free world however and some of the information counter attacks this. 

If, as you say, you don't advocate locking him up, what do you think should happen? Some agreement to allow filtering of the information?


----------



## Whiskers (10 December 2010)

prawn_86 said:


> Perhaps the cirlce is being broken by making our politicians more accountable, therefore they will think more about their actions in the future...




I agree there. The whole premise of affording due protection to whistle blowers is to hold individuals to account.

But I also think we need to distinguish between the individual and the 'system', ie the system aught to protect the people, as in the free world democratic system, from those opinions or indiscretions of the individual politician or advisers, that on balance, are more harmful to the system if allowed to be portrayed as representing the system.


----------



## Whiskers (10 December 2010)

Knobby22 said:


> I see where you are coming from Whiskers. The propaganda point is an interesting one.
> 
> I agree that some of these facts could be used for propaganda purposes.
> There is a lot of propgada happening in the free world however and some of the information counter attacks this.
> ...




Probably a cooling off period for awhile, no more leaks and no more prosecution against his 'work' and see if he can come to some sort of terms of criteria as to what is free game to publish and what is against the national or free world interest. 

That would be the idealistic way to resolve the conflict. 

But as others have also noted, his ego may be an issue to his ability to barter some sort of compromise to carry on.


----------



## Julia (10 December 2010)

Whiskers said:


> No, I'm not advocating putting him in jail per se, just that the law and justice be equitable, be done and be seen to be done.
> 
> What I'm getting at with JA is if you are going to take the high moral ground with Wikileaks, to justify the greater good in releasing all this stuff, you need to demonstrate that you are what you preach... a better example for society than those you condem.
> 
> ...



Great post, Whiskers.
I'm feeling ambivalent about the whole issue at present.   Superficially, it's good to see politicians squirming in discomfort, and good to see some truths (e.g. what was actually said by Rudd about the Afghan war) coming out, but I'm a bit concerned about what Julian Assange's fundamental motives are.

There's a difference between a 'whistle blower', someone dedicated to honesty and transparency, and someone with a fundamentally anarchic disposition.   At this stage, I'm not sure we know where Assange fits on this continuum.





prawn_86 said:


> Perhaps the cirlce is being broken by making our politicians more accountable, therefore they will think more about their actions in the future...



You'd think so, wouldn't you, Prawn.  But I'm actually wondering if it will have the opposite effect, i.e. that in future politicians and diplomats will take extraordinary measures to keep their views and conversations private.
Hillary Clinton said as much a couple of days ago.

There was apparently more sharing of information following 9/11, on the basis that various agencies had not sufficiently been sharing information with one another, but rather keeping this secret, and as a result much of the intelligence about the potential event did not come to light until they reviewed it all later.

So since then there has been considerably more openness between agencies which Mrs Clinton says has led to the potential (and now real) leaking of this information.


----------



## startrader (10 December 2010)

Whiskers said:


> What I'm getting at with JA is if you are going to take the high moral ground with Wikileaks, to justify the greater good in releasing all this stuff, you need to demonstrate that you are what you preach... a better example for society than those you condem.




With due respect, I don't really think that this is relevant.  It's irrelevant whether Julian Assange takes the high moral ground or not.  The point in this whole situation is that we should know what our politicians are doing on our behalf.  For example, we have Australians putting their lives on the line in Afghanistan.  If our politicians are sending our troops overseas in what they really think is an unwinnable fight and some of the troops are being killed (and this is exactly what is happening) and the pollies are telling us otherwise, then in my view this is very wrong.  

As $20shoes said in his excellent post, this is not about Julian Assange.  This is about a watershed moment in history.  Things have changed.  As much as politicians want things to stay the same, they're not going to.  No matter how hard they try to put the genie back in the bottle, things are never going back to how they were before and they are going to have to adapt to this new reality.


----------



## bellenuit (10 December 2010)

I think the real threat to democracy comes from the response of the western governments to the leaking of the diplomatic cables. 

By attacking Assange with claims that he has acted criminally in respect to his part in making the information public, the West (their governments) has effectively played in to the hands of China and those other countries that show no respect for democracy or individual freedoms. If Assange is arrested and jailed for his part in the leaks and western governments are complicit in helping the US take this action, what should the West's response be if some overseas Chinese dissident releases information that the Chinese government deems to be sensitive and say was obtained illegally and then requests the extradition of the dissident? How are they to respond to dissidents being arrested and jailed in China on trumped up charges, when the real motivation is to silence them? The West is in danger of ceding the high moral ground by their response to the leaks.  

Rudd is correct when he says that the fault is with the US government for employing such lax security for what is very sensitive information, not with JA for helping disseminate the leaked documents. They should live with the consequences of their lax security and strive to fix the problems.  Instead they are acting like the Chinese and legitimising that type of behaviour.


----------



## Calliope (10 December 2010)

startrader said:


> The point in this whole situation is that we should know what our politicians are doing on our behalf.  For example, we have Australians putting their lives on the line in Afghanistan.  If our politicians are sending our troops overseas in what they really think is an unwinnable fight and some of the troops are being killed (and this is exactly what is happening) and the pollies are telling us otherwise, then in my view this is very wrong.




We didn't need Wikileaks to tell us what we knew already...that Rudd cannot be trusted. Every man and his dog also knows what history has taught us, that the war in Afghanistan is unwinnable.

The whole point of us being there from the perspective of this government and the last, is to curry favour with the Americans, because as a weak country with miniscule forces we need them more than they need us.

Politicians have to consider whether the the loss of a few troops in Afghanistan is a price worth paying for the protective arm of the US fleet and airforce. John Howard managed to get away with it in Iraq with much expense but no loss of lives.

Wikileak's whistleblowing is perfectly legal... if mischievous. I'm not so sure about their efforts to damage companies that do not support them.


----------



## prawn_86 (10 December 2010)

Calliope said:


> I'm not so sure about their efforts to damage companies that do not support them.




Its not their efforts. The DOS attacks on Visa et al is being done by a seperate group not affiliated with wikileaks. Funny how people complain about these attacks, yet the wikileaks websites have been under similar attacks from (one presumes) the US government


----------



## Calliope (10 December 2010)

prawn_86 said:


> Its not their efforts. The DOS attacks on Visa et al is being done by a seperate group* not affiliated with wikileaks*. Funny how people complain about these attacks, yet the wikileaks websites have been under similar attacks from (one presumes) the US government




OK, Wikileaks supporters then;  



> At the same time, WikiLeaks supporters have apparently gone on the offensive, staging retaliatory attacks against companies that have cut ties.
> 
> On Wednesday, hackers briefly shut down access to the MasterCard website, which announced it had stopped processing donations to the group. Visa has done likewise - and its website was taken down yesterday.




http://www.smh.com.au/national/wikileaks-grows-stronger-as-supporters-fight-back-20101209-18rek.html

Wikileaks supporters on these pages, now apparently are putting hackers on a pedestal. Once hackers were seen as the scum of the cyberspace industry. Now when they embarrass politicians, the are regarded as heroes. It wll be a different story when the start infringing on your rights.


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## basilio (10 December 2010)

Knowledge is power.  One of the oldest truisms around and still starkly true.

Right now Wikileaks holds the power. It has 250,000 diplomatic cables of varying sensitivity. So far only 800 have been released and we have seen what sort of stir they have made. And remember Wikileaks and the media who have the documents have been very careful to pull out information that might identify agents, informers, current programs ect.. It has been a slow sanitised release.

But from where the US stands all they can see is the steady drip of influence destroying information *that they wrote. *Totally undeniable. At present unstoppable.

And even worse than this it seems that the whole sweep of untouched files is now sitting on 100,000 computers  awaiting the cyber key that will expose every piece of information previously sent around the world. So Wikileaks has a very firm hold of the family jewels and if Assange has any sort of accident the US government will be  collectively singing in the Popes choir.*

As a real time  super spy mini series I think this is panning out exceptionally well.  Does anyone have any thoughts on the next episode ?


* The castrati.


----------



## basilio (10 December 2010)

I thought this a particularly sobering story about America that might explain much of the potential embarrassment in store for that country.



> The US kidnap an innocent German citizen whose name just happens to be the same as a wanted terrorist, he is subject to rendition to the middle east where he is tortured and sodomized by his torturers and then eventually - when the US finally work out that he is not the man they want - he is dumped by the roadside in Albania.
> 
> The US government then applies political pressure to the German government not to arrest the CIA operatives responsible for this crime and even a country as rich an powerful as Germany bows down and does nothing to protect its citizens.
> 
> ...




http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/10/wikileaks-reaction-world-reaction


----------



## Solly (10 December 2010)




----------



## Garpal Gumnut (11 December 2010)

I am resting tonight at the Picnic Bay Hotel in Nelly Bay , Magnetic Island, discussing young Julian Assanges exploits here.

I remember him and his mum well.

He is a fine example of the free and open minded Queenslander, never afraid to expose the perfidy of big guvment both here in Queensland, wider Australia, the USA and the World.

Good on him.

A victory for the ordinary person and a lesson for our betters such as Rudd, Hillri, and Arbib.

I must leave as six scantily clad lasses from a Carlton Light promotion are disrobing me to reattire me in red Carlton Light , top, jocks and sunhat.

It is a tough life being from Townsville and Maggie Island, as poor Julian in a dingy Wandsworth now realises.

Long live freedom of information and the disrobing of our betters.

gg


----------



## wayneL (11 December 2010)

Calliope said:


> OK, Wikileaks supporters then;
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It's a bit like guns isn't it. You can use one to rob/murder some poor schmuck or you can use one to defend your family from a murderous thug.


----------



## $20shoes (12 December 2010)

For better or worse, Wikileaks has forced us to look at the ugly side of politics, and we have to some extent been taken as unprepared and unwilling hostages, begging a very personal question - "From this day forth, does silencing Wikileaks make me complicit"?

I think it is going to be terribly destabilising, but I think it's too late to turn back. 

----------------------------------
With charges over Ibrahim looking like a set up job, Rudd must be squirming once again. Will he last?


------------------------------------

Another: 

The documents also show the extent to which the German government  cooperated with the US, seeking only to present the appearance of  opposition to placate popular hostility to the kidnapping of El-Masri.

El-Masri, 44, a German citizen of Lebanese descent, says he was  illegally detained by CIA agents while entering Macedonia on New Year's  Eve 2003 and then transferred to a CIA-run prison in Afghanistan, where  he says he was beaten, sodomized and injected with drugs.

Another cable originating from the U.S. Embassy in Berlin in 2007 cites  the deputy chief of mission, John M. Koenig, as telling the German  deputy national security adviser that issuing warrants for the agents  "would have a negative impact on our bilateral relationship."
------------------------------------


----------



## DB008 (12 December 2010)

basilio
there have been several suggestions that these documents were leaked to him (WikiLeaks) on purpose so that the USA could implement the iPatriot act. 

Also, the USA also debated in the senate about an "Internet Kill Switch" recently, which has also been approved.

http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/obama-internet-kill-switch-proposed-20100618-yln6.html

http://www.macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/obama_internet_kill_switch_plan_approved_by_us_senate_panel/


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (12 December 2010)

Some of my takes on Assange and Wikileaks :


Some may die because of the leaks.

A similar number would have died through the actions (exposed in wikileaks) of the bumbling, bad, boring and rorting elites who are in power throughout the world, irrespective of the leaks.

The US having some of the greatest universities in the world, alas also has a greater proportion of the fools of the world.

The leaks will crystallise in peoples minds those who are in the main good operators, and those who are bad, e.g. I have long been a supporter of Palin, but now see her as a reactionary fool unable to deal with the changed world order that will follow from the leaks.

The Saudi and Emirate leaders as usual come out looking like sordid small dick pissants who have collectively had a large lotto payout and the minds and bodies of trailer trash, their habits and peccadilloes.

In Australia the ALP , by persecuting Assange, will go down further in the eyes of the Left of their party, who seem to have the only remnants of the ethic of a once great political force.

The Libs will gloat and try to stay below the radar and bubble to the surface before the next election and win. 

gg


----------



## Julia (12 December 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> , e.g. I have long been a supporter of Palin, but now see her as a reactionary fool unable to deal with the changed world order that will follow from the leaks.



Are you serious about having been a Palin supporter?  I can't believe it!


----------



## white_crane (12 December 2010)

Palin is HOT :evilburn:


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (12 December 2010)

Julia said:


> Are you serious about having been a Palin supporter?  I can't believe it!




Julia, I started the barracuda thread. I've known many strong beautiful downndirty huntin fishin women, unafraid to lead, and I thought she was one of these and was willing because she was beautiful to forgive her earlier faux pas'.

I'm a man for gawd sake. Of course I supported her. 

gg


----------



## inq (13 December 2010)

Gotta laugh at the oldie's who don't know who Anonymous are, thinking they are or majorly affiliated with Wikileaks.

Anon - The same group who also made protests and targetted attacks against The Australian ISP filter proposal, Scientology, Iranian presidential election protests etc.

For those interested: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_(group)


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## noco (13 December 2010)

Things are certainly hotting up between Gillard and Rudd over Assange. Rudd has virtually told Gillard to BUT OUT.

http://blogs.news.com.au/couriermai..._courts_press_by_saving_assange_from_gillard/


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## sails (13 December 2010)

inq said:


> Gotta laugh at the oldie*'s* who don't know who Anonymous are, thinking they are or majorly affiliated with Wikileaks....




lol - which oldies???  

Oh and "oldies" doesn't have an apostrophe in this context...


----------



## nomore4s (13 December 2010)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Julia, I started the barracuda thread. I've known many strong beautiful downndirty huntin fishin women, unafraid to lead, and I thought she was one of these and was willing because she was beautiful to forgive her earlier faux pas'.
> 
> I'm a man for gawd sake. Of course I supported her.
> 
> gg




lol, no wonder you've been married 22 times:


----------



## hangseng (13 December 2010)

prawn_86 said:


> I say responsible whistleblower but its amazing how many people disagree.
> 
> The more transperancy the better imo




I agree prawn_86, with a disclaimer on 'seriously' sensitive country and security information, that should never be publicly disclosed.

The rest of the trash should be disclosed. If these people don't want to have their embarrassing slurs against others put out to public then simply don't say what they do. If they are going to say something personal about others (whether right or wrong), then expect to be answerable for it.

I also believe the time has come to amend the diplomatic immunity laws. Why should they be immune to a countries laws and literally flaunt that "right" at will.

Interestingly, Australia is one of the few countries in the world that will pay local fines imposed on diplomatic staff. We have people killed in Aus by these high profile diplomats that simply walk away without penalty and pay nothing for their misdemeanour.

Wikilieaks has exposed some of them for what they are IMO. Maybe now they will be more careful what they say and do and act responsibly as we expect and pay them to...as the world is watching them and they don't like it one bit.

Same as our pollies in parliament that carry on like spoilt brats in a shool yard.


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## Julia (13 December 2010)

nomore4s said:


> lol, no wonder you've been married 22 times:




nomore4s, you are being quite cruel to poor gg.  I think his tally of wives is fewer than ten.

And quite obviously the failure of these once promising relationships would not have, even in the slightest, been attributable to any fault on gg's part.

gg. thanks to you for all the amusement you've provided on this site throughout the year.  Sorry to hear about your period of incarceration.
Best regards to Garpaldog.


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## startrader (13 December 2010)

hangseng said:


> I agree prawn_86, with a disclaimer on 'seriously' sensitive country and security information, that should never be publicly disclosed.
> 
> The rest of the trash should be disclosed. If these people don't want to have their embarrassing slurs against others put out to public then simply don't say what they do. If they are going to say something personal about others (whether right or wrong), then expect to be answerable for it.
> 
> ...




A very good six hundred and sixty sixth post!


----------



## explod (13 December 2010)

Julia said:


> nomore4s, you are being quite cruel to poor gg.  I think his tally of wives is fewer than ten.
> 
> And quite obviously the failure of these once promising relationships would not have, even in the slightest, been attributable to any fault on gg's part.
> 
> ...




I'm with you on this Julia, not many of us battlers left to carry on the cause.

Have another dring GG, it does wonders ole pal.

Whistleblowers eh, we stuck to each other in the old days.  And were honest.


----------



## DB008 (15 December 2010)

> Wikileaks founder Julian Assange bailed but release delayed
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11989216
> 
> The founder of whistle-blowing website Wikileaks, Julian Assange, has been granted bail in London on conditions including cash guarantees of £240,000.
> ...


----------



## basilio (15 December 2010)

It's all quite bizarre and Kafkaesque.

We have know for years that much of what passes for political information has been lies and BS. The tacit acknowledgment has been that the politicians pretend to tell the truth and we pretend to believe them.

The situation has become more tricky when the lies become more dangerous and pretending to believe them even more life threatening. For example the war in Iraq was based on a total lie - understood by all parties at the time but still prosecuted by a government determined to take control of Iraq .  (And it had *absolutely nothing to do* with the billions of barrels of oil  that country had.)

Now we have concrete proof of the lies. No one can pretend anymore.  And the sunlight is very painful for eyes that have been used to the dark for so long.

Julian Assange is being chased for exposing the truth. The American Government is busy constructing some fictitious law to give a figleaf of legal credibility to their desire to shut him up. Of course the more forthright members of the establishment simply want the rule of .303 brought to bear

Meanwhile the Swedish government is moving heaven and earth to bring Julian Assange back to allegedly face  the most obscure sexual harrassment charges yet known. 

*And of course it has nothing to do with any attempts at America to extradite  Julian to face their special courts of justice*.

If after all this I ever hear  the Western Democracies claim the high ground on justice, the rule of law, open societies, freedom of expression and the right to know I'll just vomit. This is a farce. In my view our governments are losing their legitimacy to govern.


----------



## Calliope (15 December 2010)

basilio said:


> If after all this I ever hear  the Western Democracies claim the high ground on justice, the rule of law, open societies, freedom of expression and the right to know I'll just vomit. This is a farce. In my view our governments are losing their legitimacy to govern.




I am sure the the leaders of Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, Libya and Zimbabwe  would agree with you on this. I am surprised that you prefer to live here when I am sure any of these open societies would give you political asylum.


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## Knobby22 (15 December 2010)

Calliope said:


> I am sure the the leaders of Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, Libya and Zimbabwe  would agree with you on this. I am surprised that you prefer to live here when I am sure any of these open societies would give you political asylum.




Average comment.

Being better than those societies is hardly a stirring defence.

Surely you believe that we have the right to a just and free society, not a society where we have to believe all the dross we are told. 

Whistleblowers deserve to be protected. One of the girls complaining has links to the CIA. Check it out.

I agree with basilio. We now have concrete proof of the lies we were told.
These people should be the ones they are sending to jail, not the whistleblower.  However they are powerful and have influence and can obviously effect opinion.


----------



## explod (15 December 2010)

basilio said:


> It's all quite bizarre and Kafkaesque.
> 
> We have know for years that much of what passes for political information has been lies and BS. The tacit acknowledgment has been that the politicians pretend to tell the truth and we pretend to believe them.
> 
> ...




A great post and very well put.

It is to be hoped that the Westminster system of justice is upheld in this case and that it paves the way for a clensing of the self interest/serving domination of governments and *the press*.

Could we see a time when all animals are equal?


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## Calliope (15 December 2010)

Knobby22 said:


> Being better than those societies is hardly a stirring defence.




I wasn't defending anything. I merely pointed out that if living under a repressive democratic government, which doesn't tell him all its secrets, makes basillio vomit he should seek solace elsewhere.


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## explod (15 December 2010)

Calliope said:


> I wasn't defending anything. I merely pointed out that if living under a repressive democratic government, which doesn't tell him all its secrets, makes basillio vomit he should seek solace elsewhere.




Democratic, its a joke.  Not far off being taxed just to breathe.

Do you Calliope, like a Government that keeps us in the dark on issues, such as Iraq where our youngsters are sent to act in campaigns that have proved to be wrong?


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## Julia (15 December 2010)

Calliope said:


> I wasn't defending anything. I merely pointed out that if living under a repressive democratic government, which doesn't tell him all its secrets, makes basillio vomit he should seek solace elsewhere.




Calliope, surely it's reasonable for basilio to object to all that's wrong with our government, without that objection implying he therefore should go and live in an even worse environment?

I'd be very surprised if you really think all is well with how our government conducts national and international affairs on our behalf.


----------



## Calliope (15 December 2010)

explod said:


> Democratic, its a joke.  Not far off being taxed just to breathe.
> 
> Do you Calliope, like a Government that keeps us in the dark on issues, such as Iraq where our youngsters are sent to act in campaigns that have proved to be wrong?




Perhaps you should join basillio and apply for a visa to a country where there are no state secrets and where taxes are very low.

Personally, I think I live in the best country in the world, and missing out on a few secrets and political gossip hasn't left me any worse off. And I don't think it worried you either until Assange put the idea in your head.

You should chill out.


----------



## Judd (15 December 2010)

explod said:


> ....such as Iraq where our youngsters are sent to act in campaigns that have proved to be wrong?...




Much as you may not like this but the majority of those youngsters volunteer to go to these zones due to the tax-free money involved.  Don't get me wrong, I have the greatest admiration and respect for these troops.

Until you hear the pfffft of a bullet going past your ear, reserve judgment.  And when in a fire fight they are not fighting for this country but for their own survival and for the colleagues who are with them.

Now off you go and moralise to your heart's extent.


----------



## explod (15 December 2010)

Judd said:


> Much as you may not like this but the majority of those youngsters volunteer to go to these zones due to the tax-free money involved.  Don't get me wrong, I have the greatest admiration and respect for these troops.
> 
> Until you hear the pfffft of a bullet going past your ear, reserve judgment.  And when in a fire fight they are not fighting for this country but for their own survival and for the colleagues who are with them.
> 
> Now off you go and moralise to your heart's extent.




Rubbish,

First, my Grandson is a Submariner as an engineer in the RAN, my Grandfather had a shocking time in France and died a young man from cancer of the lungs caused by the gasses.  My Father died too young from a bad aircrash ww2 in New Guinea.  Uncle emotionally destroyed in Korean War and Brother-in-law similar shape from Vietnam.    The hierachy behind the scenes call them cannon fodder (according to my Grandmother).

The kids have no real choice at all.  Our system brainwashes them into wanting to go and be brave and to fight for their country.  It is the same as teaching babies about God.  Brainwashing.

Wikileaks is about intelligent people wanting a real change in this world towards actual peace.  To get that we have to educate the people about what is really going on.   Wikileaks is a good start.

The divide between rich and poor is growing exponentially and we see rallies now in France, Italy, Spain, some now in Ireland because of this.  The unemployment rate in the US is reported as 9%.  Those counted are the ones that have been unemployed for up to 18 months.  After that they are crossed off and part time jobs are counted as a job.  The actual unemployment rate in the US is 25%.  They are also near to tipping point and we would only need a new President such as Palin and there will be a bloodbath.

And I could go on.  We are in very troubled times indeed and the Wikileaks episode is providing some much needed food for thought in my view.

Now you *go off *and keep your head in the sand


----------



## DB008 (15 December 2010)

Judd said:


> Much as you may not like this but the majority of those youngsters volunteer to go to these zones due to the tax-free money involved.  Don't get me wrong, I have the greatest admiration and respect for these troops.
> 
> Until you hear the pfffft of a bullet going past your ear, reserve judgment.  And when in a fire fight they are not fighting for this country but for their own survival and for the colleagues who are with them.
> 
> Now off you go and moralise to your heart's extent.




Can you please show me details of the WMD's (Weapons of Mass Destruction) that were found once the Allies invaded Iraq to protect the West? This was the basis for invading Iraq, can you show me proof?


----------



## Happy (15 December 2010)

DB008 said:


> Can you please show me details of the WMD's (Weapons of Mass Destruction) that were found once the Allies invaded Iraq to protect the West? This was the basis for invading Iraq, can you show me proof?




Not sure if I was taken for a ride, but our rep on Atomic Energy Inspections Mr Buttler (I think) was frustrated that so much time had to be given to visit any site in Iraq, that he was virtualy sarcastic about it.

He said traces of radioactive materials were present, but places had top soil replaced and suspicions were that materials ended up in some other country.

Is it possilble? Don't know, would it surpise me? Probably not either way.


----------



## Calliope (15 December 2010)

Julia said:


> I'd be very surprised if you really think all is well with how our government conducts national and international affairs on our behalf.




I'm very surprised that so many people are whinging that our nasty governments do not inform us of all the details of our interactions with other countries. The catchcry is "transparency".  I don't see many people fleeing Australia because of oppressive secrecy.

On the other hand thousands of oppressed people are risking their lives to live in  our democracy, and are not worried by this perceived lack of "transparency".


----------



## Julia (15 December 2010)

Calliope said:


> I'm very surprised that so many people are whinging that our nasty governments do not inform us of all the details of our interactions with other countries. The catchcry is "transparency".  I don't see many people fleeing Australia because of oppressive secrecy.
> 
> On the other hand thousands of oppressed people are risking their lives to live in  our democracy, and are not worried by this perceived lack of "transparency".



Quite right, Calliope.  I think we will soon become as irritated by 'transparency' as we are with 'paradigm'.  I suppose at least 'moving forward' seems to have been discarded.

I know what you're saying and largely agree.  I just thought it was a little unreasonable to suggest that anyone finding any fault with our government should therefore want to go and live in a communist country.


----------



## Calliope (16 December 2010)

Julia said:


> I just thought it was a little unreasonable to suggest that anyone finding any fault with our government should therefore want to go and live in a communist country.




I agree. I know that these characters would never leave Australia where they can complain to their hearts content about how badly off they are.  These freedoms cannot be taken for granted  in the countries whose ideologies most mirror their own.


----------



## DB008 (17 December 2010)

JA Released.
Very, very interesting developments. 

*Turns out it was the British that put in the bail appeal, not the Swedes.* 

Gets better and better.


----------



## scanspeak (17 December 2010)

Very good documentary here 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhTfOL9_HBE


----------



## sails (17 December 2010)

Full article: Julian Assange did not break law, Wayne Swan concedes



> Members of Ms Gillard’s Left faction have subsequently demanded the government stop treating Mr Assange as a criminal and called for his rights as a citizen to be protected...




and



> Media law experts, including Holding Redlich managing partner Ian Robertson, have said it appears to him that Mr Assange had operated as many other media outlet would by releasing the cables. It was clear a crime was committed when someone took the material without authorisation from a US military computer system, he said.
> 
> But it was most unlikely any offence had been committed by those who published the material online or in newspapers.


----------



## Calliope (17 December 2010)

He is not a criminal...just a megalomaniac. And there is no law against that.


----------



## Julia (17 December 2010)

Ms Gillard is probably rather regretting her original allegation that JA is a criminal, given the many authoritative rejections, including from her own colleagues, of this.

It has been especially interesting to see how quickly Kevin Rudd jumped in to contradict her, assuring us that JA will have the benefit of all possible consular assistance.

I can't help wondering if this from Mr Rudd - correct though it has to be - is another blow in his campaign to upstage Ms Gillard.
He is busily rushing around the world, making press statements everywhere, in an apparent attempt to raise his profile to a higher level than that of the Prime Minister.  
Very amusing to watch.

There is apparently now a deal of pressure on her by the Opposition and even more, the Greens, to formally retract her statement.

She has made multiple attempts to wriggle out of it, but it just doesn't seem to be working for her.

I'm almost starting to feel sorry for her.
She's completely out of her depth.


----------



## tothemax6 (19 December 2010)

Argh, all the people who have referred to Wikileaks as a terrorist organization are just another variety of the crew who refer to everything a racist in lieu of any rational connection. They forget that the dictionary definition of 'terrorist' is along the lines of 'someone who creates terror', and instead ascribe it the new definition of 'people who I currently don't like'. Jeez these people are terrible. To call Assange a terrorist is no more rational than calling him a pink elephant. Where is the terror involved? They don't even blackmail - they just release information to the public with no concern for the opinions of the political class, and that is a *healthy* organization for society to have.
Good luck, Assange


----------



## Solly (25 December 2010)

Here is an interesting interview on Aljazeera by David Frost 
with Julian Assange.


----------



## noco (25 December 2010)

Solly said:


> Here is an interesting interview on Aljazeera by David Frost
> with Julian Assange.





What a great interview Solly. Julian Assange is obviously a highly interlectual person. I wish him luck and hope he continues to expose rorts around the world including Australia.


----------



## DB008 (3 January 2011)

How the world goes around...


----------



## baby_swallow (3 January 2011)

Neither
My take on Assange is just one of those thousands of IT experts who wanted to make a quid out of the internet. He discovered that exposing state secrets can be lucrative.

Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world and some state secrets must remain hidden from our "enemies" whether we like it or not.

Put it this way, it's like when you're playing a game of cards, you don't want all your aces be seen by the guy on the other side of the table.


----------



## explod (3 January 2011)

baby_swallow said:


> Neither
> My take on Assange is just one of those thousands of IT experts who wanted to make a quid out of the internet. He discovered that exposing state secrets can be lucrative.
> 
> Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world and some state secrets must remain hidden from our "enemies" whether we like it or not.
> ...




He did not leak them, just passed them on.  Apparently incompetence or corruption within the US administration leaked the documents.

Of course the dopes themselves do not want to take the blame, have to find a scapegoat.

A bit like blaming Saddam Hussain (the inference anyway)for the Terrorist attack on the WTC,  Iran and Irak at the time were on opposing sides.   Due to US bumbling they are probably rounding up on the same side now.

Spreading news on the incompetence of the US is doing us all a favour in my view.  You cant fix an engine till you know what is causing the problem.


----------



## bellenuit (3 January 2011)

baby_swallow said:


> Put it this way, it's like when you're playing a game of cards, you don't want all your aces be seen by the guy on the other side of the table.




Yes, but a gambler would take some means to ensure that the other guy doesn't see your aces. It seems in this case that the gambler showed his hand to everyone in the room assuming no one would pass the info on to his opponent. IMO the fault lies with the US government.  Assange just took advantage of their ineptitude.

What never is mentioned is that because the "secret" information was so widely distributed in the first place (before Wikileaks got their hands on it), there is a good possibility that others may have got their hands on it too. After all, the Russians and Chinese have spy networks dedicated to getting such information.  I am sure anything in those files that was useful to the enemies of the US had already being obtained by them prior to the Wiki leaks, due to the lax security. It is just not in the interest of those spy agencies to disclose that they have the information.


----------



## DB008 (4 January 2011)

Just some more funnies on the whole subject.







LOL


----------



## DB008 (14 January 2011)

Looks like his hearing is in a few days. Interesting.


----------



## DB008 (3 December 2011)

Wiki Leaks Spy Files uploaded.

Documents here.

Spy Files Map


----------



## DB008 (28 February 2012)

*WikiLeaks publishes leaked Stratfor emails*

WikiLeaks publishes leaked Stratfor emails, casting light on workings of private US intel firm



> WikiLeaks publishes leaked Stratfor emails, casting light on workings of private US intel firm
> 
> By Associated Press, Updated: Tuesday, February 28, 7:10 PM
> 
> ...







> On Monday February 27th, 2012, WikiLeaks began publishing The Global Intelligence Files, over five million e-mails from the Texas headquartered "global intelligence" company Stratfor. The e-mails date between July 2004 and late December 2011. They reveal the inner workings of a company that fronts as an intelligence publisher, but provides confidential intelligence services to large corporations, such as Bhopal's Dow Chemical Co., Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon and government agencies, including the US Department of Homeland Security, the US Marines and the US Defence Intelligence Agency. The emails show Stratfor's web of informers, pay-off structure, payment laundering techniques and psychological methods.




Wikileaks direct link below
http://wikileaks.org/the-gifiles-se.html


----------



## orr (14 March 2012)

Assange is being Interviewed sometime between 10 and 11pm(eastern daylight saving time) by Philip Adams /Radio National. Or they do a pod cast if your interested.

If your moral compass is telling you to say something, Say it... but let "Deep Throat" be your guide, not poor Bradley.


----------



## DB008 (20 June 2012)

Running out of options for his extradition to Sweden.



> Wikileaks founder Julian Assange is seeking political asylum at Ecuador's London embassy




http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/jun/19/julian-assange-wikileaks-asylum-ecuador


----------



## Calliope (20 June 2012)

DB008 said:


> Running out of options for his extradition to Sweden.
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/jun/19/julian-assange-wikileaks-asylum-ecuador




Assange- responsible whistleblower or Ratbag?

Ratbag.


----------



## orr (20 June 2012)

Calliope said:


> Assange- responsible whistleblower or Ratbag?
> 
> Ratbag.




Any in depth work you've done to come to that conclusion? You'd no doubt be able to tell us between changing feet.
 Guy Rundles piece today from crikey, with a useful chronological background for those interested;

http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/06/20/rundle-assange-makes-his-escape-into-a-diplomatic-storm/


----------



## basilio (20 June 2012)

orr said:


> Any in depth work you've done to come to that conclusion? You'd no doubt be able to tell us between changing feet.
> Guy Rundles piece today from crikey, with a useful chronological background for those interested;
> 
> http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/06/20/rundle-assange-makes-his-escape-into-a-diplomatic-storm/




Thanks for that. Excellent indepth article.

I wonder how Eucador will go with trying to take Julian Assange out of England via Heathrow airport ? Could he be arrested as a bail jumper ? Would David Cameron trash the diplomatic immunity of Eucador ?

I also wonder if perhaps a Julian Assange exit to  Eucador is a least bad option for Australia and UK.  Lets imagine Julian does go to Sweden. It's London to a brick he is whisked off to USA to face espionage charges and disappears into the prison system.  How would Australian and English politicians  attempt to defend their actions in allowing this to happen ?  Perhaps it is simpler to let him "escape" to Eucador and then give the nod to the  CIA or Mossad to tidy things up....  (As if that has never happened before ..)

Welcome to 1984.


----------



## banco (20 June 2012)

basilio said:


> Thanks for that. Excellent indepth article.
> 
> I wonder how Eucador will go with trying to take Julian Assange out of England via Heathrow airport ? Could he be arrested as a bail jumper ? Would David Cameron trash the diplomatic immunity of Eucador ?
> 
> ...




Ecuador will kick him out of the embassy after his request for asylum is formally denied.


----------



## Calliope (21 June 2012)

orr said:


> Any in depth work you've done to come to that conclusion?




Yes.
Anyone you and basilio approve of must be a *ratbag.* QED


----------



## Knobby22 (21 June 2012)

I think Assange is paranoid.
The US won't arrest him as they will cause damage to the relationships of Australia and GBR.

Then again, its not my life and I wouldn't want to end up rotting in a cage off Cuba listening to "Born in the USA".


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (21 June 2012)

I do wish you people from both sides would desist from either trying to have Julian arrested on the one hand or given a Nobel Peace Prize on the other.

He gives me as much enjoyment now as his exploits did on Magnetic Island when he was a kid.

He has always been a larrikin and a con artist, and all this kerfuffle has more of a Peter Foster atmosphere than Joan of Arc.

Having said that I would bet London to a brick that the Americans have a bullet or a bath with his name on it, and that the girls in Sweden who fell for him, may or may not have a case for him to answer. It will be difficult to prove.

A gentleman does not rip a condom in delecto. It is not a Bond thing.

gg


----------



## Calliope (21 June 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I do wish you people from both sides would desist from either trying to have Julian arrested on the one hand or given a Nobel Peace Prize on the other.



A paranoid ratbag on the run. If ever there was a case of spoiled brat syndrome - this is it.:screwy:







> He is on £240,000 bail put up by a coalition of right on types including; Michael Moore, Jemima Khan, Ken Loach, John Pilger, Tariq Ali, Sir Phillip Knightley; magazine publisher Felix Dennis, Nobel prize winner Sir John Sulston, former Labour minister and chairman of Faber & Faber publishing house Lord Matthew Evans and Professor Patricia David



.

Say no more.

http://order-order.com/2012/06/19/assange-in-london-ecuadorian-embassy-seeking-asylum/


----------



## Julia (21 June 2012)

Knobby22 said:


> I think Assange is paranoid.
> The US won't arrest him as they will cause damage to the relationships of Australia and GBR.



Do you really think the Australian government would be in the slightest upset if he were taken off to rot at Guatanemo?  They have hardly been helpful to him thus far.  When his activities first came to light, Ms Gillard had not a moment's hesitation in declaring him a criminal.



> Then again, its not my life and I wouldn't want to end up rotting in a cage off Cuba listening to "Born in the USA".



Quite so.


----------



## sails (21 June 2012)

Julia said:


> Do you really think the Australian government would be in the slightest upset if he were taken off to rot at Guatanemo?  They have hardly been helpful to him thus far.  When his activities first came to light, Ms Gillard had not a moment's hesitation in declaring him a criminal....





And yet she defends Craig Thomson.  Seems it depends on "what's in it for her".


----------



## Calliope (21 June 2012)

Knobby22 said:


> I think Assange is paranoid.
> The US won't arrest him as they will cause damage to the relationships of Australia and GBR.
> Then again, its not my life and I wouldn't want to end up rotting in a cage off Cuba listening to "Born in the USA".




No. He will feel more aa home in Ecuador.



> *Assange seeks a strange haven*
> 
> FOR someone who claims to be a fearless defender of free expression and human rights, WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange's choice of Ecuador for political asylum is odd.
> 
> ...




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-a-strange-haven/story-e6frg71x-1226403508201


----------



## Knobby22 (21 June 2012)

Julia said:


> Do you really think the Australian government would be in the slightest upset if he were taken off to rot at Guatanemo?  They have hardly been helpful to him thus far.  When his activities first came to light, Ms Gillard had not a moment's hesitation in declaring him a criminal.
> .




Not the government, the people. I work in an office with a lot of young people who have seen the video of the Helicopter pilot killing the reporter. They would upset a lot of the under 30 crowd if they did it,here, NZ and GBR.

And Calliope, it shows how paranoid he is by selecting Equador. I wonder if Ronald Biggs can give him some advice.


----------



## Calliope (21 June 2012)

The cherubic face on the body of a forty year old man, who never grew up, tugs at the heartstrings on many women - and some men, including probably, Rafael Correaver, However Gillard is made of sterner stuff.



> JULIA Gillard has ruled out using a UN summit of foreign leaders in Rio de Janeiro to make direct diplomatic contact with Ecuador, as WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange remains holed up in the country's London embassy.


----------



## Julia (21 June 2012)

He seems to have backed himself into a corner anyway.   Because he has broken his bail conditions, he will be arrested as soon as he steps out of the Ecuadorian Embassy's doors.


----------



## DB008 (21 June 2012)

Julia said:


> He seems to have backed himself into a corner anyway.   Because he has broken his bail conditions, he will be arrested as soon as he steps out of the Ecuadorian Embassy's doors.




Not if you leave in a diplomatic plated car which the police can't touch.


----------



## McLovin (21 June 2012)

DB008 said:


> Not if you leave in a diplomatic plated car which the police can't touch.




They'll ping him at LHR. They'd also need to find an airline willing to carry him.


----------



## bellenuit (21 June 2012)

DB008 said:


> Not if you leave in a diplomatic plated car which the police can't touch.




Wouldn't he still have to walk through the airport to get to a plane?


----------



## prawn_86 (21 June 2012)

McLovin said:


> They'll ping him at LHR. They'd also need to find an airline willing to carry him.






bellenuit said:


> Wouldn't he still have to walk through the airport to get to a plane?




Im no expert, but what about a private airport straight into a private plane?


----------



## McLovin (21 June 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> Im no expert, but what about a private airport straight into a private plane?




Neither has diplomatic immunity. It would be no different to the police entering any other private property to arrest someone.


----------



## prawn_86 (21 June 2012)

McLovin said:


> Neither has diplomatic immunity. It would be no different to the police entering any other private property to arrest someone.




Diplomatic car straight up the back of a waiting hercules/transport aircraft?  And then stay in the car until in international airspace?


----------



## McLovin (21 June 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> Diplomatic car straight up the back of a waiting hercules/transport aircraft?  And then stay in the car until in international airspace?




Maybe in Hollywood.


----------



## trillionaire#1 (21 June 2012)

Does this guy not think CIA or south american CIA funded operatives wouldnt bump him off down there.

I could see him walkling around the jungle complete with panama hat looking to out the location of long hidden russian icbm sites.

Or maybe from equador he could paddle due west to the galapagos islands for a little bit of peace and quiet:bowser:


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (21 June 2012)

Calliope said:


> A paranoid ratbag on the run. If ever there was a case of spoiled brat syndrome - this is it.:screwy:
> 
> View attachment 47537
> 
> ...







> He is on £240,000 bail put up by a coalition of right on types including; Michael Moore, Jemima Khan, Ken Loach, John Pilger, Tariq Ali, Sir Phillip Knightley; magazine publisher Felix Dennis, Nobel prize winner Sir John Sulston, former Labour minister and chairman of Faber & Faber publishing house Lord Matthew Evans and Professor Patricia David




Too right Calliope,

If you look at the list of dunces, fools and show ponies who put up his bail, it in general proves the adage that those who inherit or achieve fame through inheritance or the yartz, are not very cluey at picking con artists.

I still reckon this has more of a Peter Foster flavour than a Joan of Arc.

I do hope sincerely that his bail is forfeited and spent on some deserving cause.

gg


----------



## qldfrog (21 June 2012)

Anyway, I will forever be thankful to him to show us how all rotten both left and rights are.
It is a sad age when we are in a worse state than during the cold war, at least then, you could leverage west vs east or reverse, now, it is just swallow your macdo, your fox news/murdoch paper and all is good on the planet, by the way do not forget to use your credit card during the EOFY sales.
And some are quite happy with that Aren't you Calliope?
Can not prevent myself:  how low you can be ? 
I quote "Anyone you and basilio approve of must be a ratbag. QED "
What is on foxtel tonight???Slave to ideology are not better right or left.


----------



## Calliope (21 June 2012)

Never mind Frog. Have a Bex and a nice lie down and you will feel better.


----------



## basilio (21 June 2012)

Well Qldfrog you are quite wrong about Calliope.  Now that you have piped up you will have to be added to his list of QED ratbag supporters. 

Would you prefer to be on his side ? 

But back to the story of Wikileaks. Can we remember that  Wikileaks was started to  expose the secrets and bad conduct that companies and organisations wanted to keep secret? If you ever go back to their files you'll scores of stories which exposed corrupt practices. And it was all factual. They used original documents to expose the lies of various bods and sods. The clever part of Wikileaks was devising a safe way for whistle blowers to  bring these documents to the light of day.

You might remember that the one of the biggest exposes Julian Assange did was exposing how a helicopter gun crew in Iraq shot up civilians including children for about 18 minutes.  At the time (naturally..) the official line was that this was an "accident" ect.  Check out the link to refresh your memory. It was at this stage that teh US decided they had a real problem...

After this incident Wilileaks received  hundreds of thousands of official documents from scores of US  organsiations.  We discovered who disliked who, what particular lies were being spun, the double and triple dealings of governments - in fact a huge amount of what we probably already subconsciously knew but was routinely denied by governments.

Of course these statements could not be denied because in fact they came from the government sources them self.

And that was the stage at which Julian Assange went from the hero of open government and genuine democracy to a terrorist/traitor or whatever label you want to put on someone you want to see dead. He was condemned  for finding out the truth and exposing it.  Very dangerous stuff to governments of the left or right or corrupt or incompetent.

If you go back to start of this thread we can get a flavour for the  outrage people felt at when a number of politicians  were calling for Julian Assange death.  Has that all gone now ? Are we happy to see him disappeared to ensure no one else has the effrontery to expose truth ?

The last reference outlines just what Wikileaks achieved in terms of in its time. 

(  Yep definitely a Peter Foster character.  )



> By Darren Bailey, Barrister and Solicitor of the Supreme Court of South Australia
> Submitted on 04 December 2010
> Subject: Julian Assange
> Dear Prime Minister,
> ...




http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...7WNH8TjQsJ2lNByIQ&sig2=2V4OVWIcnTWOCU1fKZcj-Q

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiLeaks


----------



## JTLP (21 June 2012)

Knobby22 said:


> Not the government, the people. I work in an office with a lot of young people who have seen the video of the Helicopter pilot killing the reporter. They would upset a lot of the under 30 crowd if they did it,here, NZ and GBR.




Really? I know there are idealogical under 30 year olds - those losers who don't get a job and fuss about in Fitzroy, Newtown and those inner city 'grunge' suburbs - but who actually gives a toss about a guy who acts like a spoilt brat and thinks he is above the law?

Lock him up and drop that key at the deepest point of the Pacific.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (21 June 2012)

Calliope said:


> Never mind Frog. Have a Bex and a nice lie down and you will feel better.




+1 

gg


----------



## Julia (21 June 2012)

Whether Mr Assange is a brave warrior for the exposition of corrupt practices, or a spoiled child looking for attention, he would have been entirely aware that his actions would result in governments wanting to shut him up at best, or get rid of him at worst.

If he didn't take the consequences of his actions into account before releasing all the information, then that's pretty much too bad imo.


----------



## banco (21 June 2012)

Julia said:


> Do you really think the Australian government would be in the slightest upset if he were taken off to rot at Guatanemo?  They have hardly been helpful to him thus far.  When his activities first came to light, Ms Gillard had not a moment's hesitation in declaring him a criminal.
> 
> 
> Quite so.




Ahhh yes I think they'd be very upset because it would be a political problem for them. 

Of course the Government's nightmare is he returns to Australia and the US makes an extradition request.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (21 June 2012)

banco said:


> Ahhh yes I think they'd be very upset because it would be a political problem for them.
> 
> Of course the Government's nightmare is he returns to Australia and the US makes an extradition request.




Most Australians do not give a monkeys about Assange.

It would be a problem for Labor as votes would leach to the muppet Greens.

Either way, common sense and the Australian way win.

gg


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (21 June 2012)

Christine Assange has a point .

As quoted from the SMH.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/assanges-mother-slams-bob-carr-20120621-20qr3.html

ASSANAGES MOTHER SLAMS BOB CARR



> Mrs Assange said there had been no consular assistance, and she was growing more worried.
> 
> "This is a person who is uncharged, unquestioned, decorated all around the world for his journalism," she said.
> 
> ...




I have on my many stays in Knightsbridge, often sighted the Metropolitan Police salivating over our Australian youth outside the Embassy of Ecuador.

Bob Carr really needs to get the finger out and realise that he is not just a jumped up Shire chairman in charge of NSW, but the Foreign Minister of Australia.

gg


----------



## orr (21 June 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Most Australians do not give a monkeys about Assange.




It's a bold thing to speak for most Australians, I would of thought. Because in this context it suggests that most Australians would be happy and content to treated as 'mushrooms'. But if thats's your view Gumnut, well, that's your view.
Assange what ever his faults 'let the light in' . What is it in that that scares you? Something to hide?


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (21 June 2012)

orr said:


> It's a bold thing to speak for most Australians, I would of thought. Because in this context it suggests that most Australians would be happy and content to treated as 'mushrooms'. But if thats's your view Gumnut, well, that's your view.
> Assange what ever his faults 'let the light in' . What is it in that that scares you? Something to hide?




Unfortunately orr, I am obviously not as well trained as you in deductive reasoning, and the laws of detachment and syllogism, so I will have to defer to your superior intellect, but not your argument.

And yes, I am an undercover operative for liberty and libertarianism.

gg


----------



## Julia (21 June 2012)

banco said:


> Ahhh yes I think they'd be very upset because it would be a political problem for them.



Perhaps.  But couldn't the Australian government say blithely that it had done what it could to help Mr Assange (as indeed they are presently saying) but the matter was ultimately out of their hands.



> Of course the Government's nightmare is he returns to Australia and the US makes an extradition request.



How would he be able to return to Australia in the present set of circumstances?

Agree with gg that your average Australian couldn't give a stuff.
They are way too busy worrying about gay marriage and other nation building policies.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (21 June 2012)

I fail to see the outrage about governments and large companies wanting to keep secrets.
Why shouldn't they?

And I equally fail to see the logic of governments wanting to prosecute Assange.
Why shouldn't they?

And I equally fail to see the outrage about Assange wanting to expose the above.
Why shouldn't he.

And I equally fail to see anything good about Assange, worth spending 10c in his defence.
But why shouldn't he milk the gullible and root the dregs of the upper and middle classes of the countries in which he resides.
Why shouldn't he?

So for me me it is just a never ending show, amusing and interesting at the same time.

gg


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (22 June 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I fail to see the outrage about governments and large companies wanting to keep secrets.
> Why shouldn't they?
> 
> And I equally fail to see the logic of governments wanting to prosecute Assange.
> ...




Jemima has just emailed me to say that Julian is considering doing a runner from the Embassy.

gg


----------



## Calliope (22 June 2012)

> Mr Assange said this morning he was ready for a life in Ecuador, should his asylum be granted.
> 
> "Life in Ecuador would be a good life," he said.
> 
> "They are a friendly and generous people and life in Ecuador is much better than a life behind bars in the United States in Guantanamo Bay type conditions."




And of course he will be able pursue his favourite pastime of using women as playthings and chattels without any interference from the Ecuadorian "justice" system.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-...ssistance-claims/story-fn775xjq-1226404988085


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (22 June 2012)

One of my contacts in Sussex St. sent me this statement from Phillip Adams supporting Julian Assange.

If it is in fact Phillip's words, he is even more addled than I previously thought.



> Statement from Phillip Adams read at Sydney #rally4JA
> Rupert Murdoch used to be Australia's most famous/notorious media identity on the international stage. A little while ago he was pushed off the pedestal by Julian Assange with News Ltd eclipsed by Wikileaks. We're dealing with two very different success stories – and degrees of notoriety. Many of us find the situation amusing – if it wasn't so damned serious. Rupert, of course, can look after himself but Assange needs our ongoing help and concern. How sad that Julian had to seek asylum in the Equadorian Embassy. But then he'd find it hard to get any asylum in the Australian Embassy. Instead of an immense surge of Australian pride for Assange's contribution to what's left of democracy we seem intent on aiding and abetting the US in its attempts to ensnare him in their legal (and I use the term 'legal' very loosely) tentacles.
> 
> I first became aware of Julian's genius for creative subterfuge on Late Night Live many years ago when he was a most ingenious hacker. A little later he asked me to be the Australian representative on the advisory board of something called Wikileaks and, impressed with the concept, I was delighted to agree. Over the years he's never asked him to advise him on anything but let me advise him now. Or at least repeat what I've said to him and about him on a number of recent programs. You, Julian Assange, are a remarkable person and your creation – a sort of Freedom Of Information service on a planetary scale – has been on crucial importance in the endless struggle to keep our political leaders, and their military cohorts, under control. My advice to you? Keep you chin up. For every powerful enemy you have countless thousands of friends. As today's rally demonstrates….PHILLIP ADAMS




Once you get jokers like Adams supporting you, you can be sure your time is up.

gg


----------



## DB008 (22 June 2012)

McLovin said:


> They'll ping him at LHR. They'd also need to find an airline willing to carry him.




Who said anything about LHR? 
There is a tunnel to the rest of Europe...as far fetched as it seems, he (they) could drive from London to Iran. Any anti-Semitic country would gladly take him, take your pick.



trillionaire#1 said:


> Does this guy not think CIA or south american CIA funded operatives wouldnt bump him off down there.




Yep. He's a dead man walking. Or, once back in the USA, they will get him for treason and ultimately, the death penalty. I'd be trying every trick in the book too...


Just to add JÃ³zsef Mindszenty



> The Venerable JÃ³zsef Mindszenty (March 29, 1892 – May 6, 1975) was a cardinal and the head of the Roman Catholic Church as the Archbishop of Esztergom in Hungary. He became known as a steadfast supporter of Church freedom and opponent of communism and the brutal Stalinist persecution in his country. As a result, he was tortured and given a life sentence in a 1949 show trial that generated worldwide condemnation, including a United Nations resolution. Freed in the Hungarian Revolution of 1956, he was granted political asylum and lived in the U.S. embassy in Budapest for 15 years. He was finally allowed to leave the country in 1971. He died in exile in 1975 in Vienna, Austria.


----------



## basilio (22 June 2012)

It's a fascinating insight into the make up of ASF contributors on this particular topic.

Phillip Adams outlines the outstanding service Julian Assange brought to democracy - essentially getting accurate information into the publics hands so that there might be some accountability of companies, governments and bureaucracies. In effect a super investigative journalist. Bit like Keith Murdoch reporting to the Australian public  what was actually happening in the trenches in WW1

And GG response is to decide that if Phillip Adams is supporting him his time is up. 

http://www.firstworldwar.com/bio/murdoch.htm


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (22 June 2012)

DB008 said:


> Who said anything about LHR?
> There is a tunnel to the rest of Europe...as far fetched as it seems, he (they) could drive from London to Iran. Any anti-Semitic country would gladly take him, take your pick.
> 
> 
> ...




Good post.

My contacts in Knightsbridge tell me all this is a strategy, and I believe at this moment he is shinning over the back wall of the Embassy or being driven out in a van surrounded by dirty laundry.

gg


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (22 June 2012)

basilio said:


> It's a fascinating insight into the make up of ASF contributors on this particular topic.
> 
> Phillip Adams outlines the outstanding service Julian Assange brought to democracy - essentially getting accurate information into the publics hands so that there might be some accountability of companies, governments and bureaucracies. In effect a super investigative journalist. Bit like Keith Murdoch reporting to the Australian public  what was actually happening in the trenches in WW1
> 
> And GG response is to decide that if Phillip Adams is supporting him his time is up.




Good post basilio,

You mistake my thoughts.

I think it is a good thing for full disclosure, I am a Libertarian.

I also think Assange is a muppet.

I also can understand the USA wanting to waterboard him.

This is an evolving play on the stage of Libertarianism, and I for one applaud all the actors.

But none are 100% correct .

None can claim the high ground of Libertarianism.

gg


----------



## Calliope (22 June 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Once you get jokers like Adams supporting you, you can be sure your time is up.




Adams to Assange - from a loony left ratbag to a facist ratbag.



> You, Julian Assange, are a remarkable person and your creation – a sort of Freedom Of Information service on a planetary scale – has been on crucial importance in the endless struggle to keep our political leaders, and their military cohorts, under control. My advice to you? Keep you chin up. For every powerful enemy you have countless thousands of friends. As today's rally demonstrates….PHILLIP ADAMS




And from basilio;



> It's a fascinating insight into the make up of ASF contributors on this particular topic.




Yes, it is.


----------



## Miss Hale (22 June 2012)

Calliope said:


> The cherubic face on the body of a forty year old man, who never grew up, tugs at the heartstrings on many women ...




Not this woman, I don't have any sympathy for him.  He seems like a weasel to me.  I don't feel grateful for or any more enlightened by what he has published and in fact am annoyed that as has published some things that are basically gifts for our enemies.  I don't think he deserves to be put to death however but can't see why people laud him as a hero.  Seems to me that he's just an opportunist whose chickens have come home to roost.

As Julia said, he must have known what the consequences of his actions were.  I would respect him more if he faced his charges then I would at least believe he has the courage of his convictions.


----------



## Julia (22 June 2012)

Miss Hale said:


> Not this woman, I don't have any sympathy for him.  He seems like a weasel to me.  I don't feel grateful for or any more enlightened by what he has published and in fact am annoyed that as has published some things that are basically gifts for our enemies.  I don't think he deserves to be put to death however but can't see why people laud him as a hero.  Seems to me that he's just an opportunist whose chickens have come home to roost.



Zackly.


----------



## DB008 (22 June 2012)

Assange interviewed from the embassy. Radio National - ABC

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/julian-assange-exclusive/4085686


----------



## bellenuit (22 June 2012)

I still don't understand why if Sweden just want to ask him some questions why they don't just call him? Or has it moved on from that stage?


----------



## prawn_86 (22 June 2012)

bellenuit said:


> I still don't understand why if Sweden just want to ask him some questions why they don't just call him? Or has it moved on from that stage?




I haven't followed this very closely admittedly, but i have wondered the same thing.

How can someone be extradited without being charged for somehting? I though extradition was after a charge had been layed (by a country or possibly Interpol), not just for questioning...


----------



## orr (22 June 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> I haven't followed this very closely admittedly, but i have wondered the same thing.




Your distance from what's unfolding gives you a much clearer perspective on the most acute aspect of the event. Events that unfortunately  have been muddled in the minds of some, or those who wish to be wilfully blind.

The following is a link to a worthwhile chronology.
This was posted two days ago, no points within it have been questioned by the muddled.

http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/06/20/...lomatic-storm/


----------



## So_Cynical (22 June 2012)

Miss Hale said:


> As Julia said, he must have known what the consequences of his actions were.  *I would respect him more if he faced his charges* then I would at least believe he has the courage of his convictions.




He hasn't been charged with anything....why does the media keep getting this so wrong?



prawn_86 said:


> I haven't followed this very closely admittedly, but i have wondered the same thing.
> 
> How can someone be extradited without being charged for somehting? I though extradition was after a charge had been layed (by a country or possibly Interpol), not just for questioning...




Its some sort of EU legal quirk that all EU member country's agreed to.


----------



## McLovin (22 June 2012)

So_Cynical said:


> Its some sort of EU legal quirk that all EU member country's agreed to.




In many (all?) civil law countries the courts are inquisitive rather than adversarial. So the court will investigate the facts of the case, rather than what we are used to in common law countries where each side (prosecution and defense) put forward their arguments and the court (judge or jury) tries to determine the truth. In this instance the Swedish prosecutor asked the court to issue a European Arrest Warrant so that he could be interviewed as part of the investigation. I'm not sure whether that means he has been charged or not but it does explain why he can be extradited without a charge.

I'm no expert on European law though, so I might be way off the mark.


----------



## Miss Hale (22 June 2012)

So_Cynical said:


> He hasn't been charged with anything....why does the media keep getting this so wrong?




Sorry that was my clumsy phrasing.  I realise he hasn't been charged with anything, I meant that I would have more respect for him if he faced up to the allegations and answered the questions from the Swedish police instead of trying to avoid them.


----------



## lurker123 (22 June 2012)

Julia said:


> Whether Mr Assange is a brave warrior for the exposition of corrupt practices, or a spoiled child looking for attention, he would have been entirely aware that his actions would result in governments wanting to shut him up at best, or get rid of him at worst.
> 
> If he didn't take the consequences of his actions into account before releasing all the information, then that's pretty much too bad imo.






Miss Hale said:


> Not this woman, I don't have any sympathy for him.  He seems like a weasel to me.  I don't feel grateful for or any more enlightened by what he has published and in fact am annoyed that as has published some things that are basically gifts for our enemies.  I don't think he deserves to be put to death however but can't see why people laud him as a hero.  Seems to me that he's just an opportunist whose chickens have come home to roost.
> 
> As Julia said, he must have known what the consequences of his actions were.  I would respect him more if he faced his charges then I would at least believe he has the courage of his convictions.




As always might is right. Corrupt governments created by the elite have might, therefore they are right. By the way, those women who live in countries without women's rights. If they are beaten by their husbands, they deserved it. Those women should have thought about the consequences of angering their husbands. 

If you are referring to facing the charges that will be made if he gets extradited to the US. Only a dumb ass would face those charges. No doubt they will lock him away for life or have him killed. Being locked away for life or getting killed usually does nothing for ones convictions. Whereas being free and alive means you live to fight another day. No doubt the elites love feeding the peasantry useless ideas such as your so called courage. The more peasants who get fooled into trying to act courageous and get erased the better. The elites themselves will never be as dumb to get fooled by their own manipulations. 

I believe Bradley Manning just so displays your so called courage. Despite already being locked up for years by the US government, he still refuses to talk/spill the beans/give in. Admirable what he is willing to go through for his convictions. Yet in the end he is still locked up. A possible extrapolation to the future is that Bradley Manning's existence gets erased and everyone will forget about what he did for his convictions. In this possible scenario it will all be for naught.

One of the primal laws, might is right. Even the bible outlines this law, if you read through the lines. If you are all powerful i.e. god, you can do whatever you want. God didn't like all those humans, so he decided to wipe them all out except for Noah and his family. Because god has might, he is right. One of the most useful things you can get from reading the bible. Too bad its filled with lots of crap as well.

The West invaded Iraq because it could. It had might therefore it is right. Truly one of the most important laws you can learn. Might is right.


----------



## So_Cynical (22 June 2012)

Miss Hale said:


> Sorry that was my clumsy phrasing.  I realise he hasn't been charged with anything, I meant that I would have more respect for him if he faced up to the allegations and answered the questions from the Swedish police instead of trying to avoid them.




I think he could care less about the Swedes...its the yanks that have him scared sh!tless, they wana kill him.


----------



## McLovin (22 June 2012)

So_Cynical said:


> I think he could care less about the Swedes...its the yanks that have him scared sh!tless, they wana kill him.




Exactly. He's admitted to having sex with the two women who have made the allegations against him. The admission makes it pretty hard to ever get a rape conviction and I'm sure his lawyers have told him that.


----------



## basilio (23 June 2012)

> We have once again arrived at a moment in history where the truth can be defined as "that which you can make other people believe." The methodology for creating that belief is repetition. Say something enough times and it becomes, for millions of people, the truth. _*I am endowed like a stallion*._
> 
> This is why control of the media equals control of the populace. _*I am endowed like a stallion*_. And also why a state run television news channel is so very dangerous. _*I am endowed like a stallion*_. Now there are those who would argue this has already happened and that a certain cable news channel is actually a covert extension of our government. _*I am endowed like a stallion.* _
> 
> ...




Chuck Lorre Productions 13 Oct 2008


----------



## Calliope (23 June 2012)

basilio said:


> Chuck Lorre Productions 13 Oct 2008




What's that bit of garbage all about Bas? I think you may have reached the tipping point. Or are you now admitting that because hordes of people like you  say this guy is the second Messiah, then others will believe it?


----------



## DB008 (23 June 2012)

Connected to Wikileaks and Julian Assange, Bradley Manning, the forgotten man.


4 Corners 

WikiLeaks - The Forgotten Man

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/06/14/3525291.htm



> Private Bradley Manning was the man U.S. authorities allege stole classified military files, providing them to WikiLeaks for publication.
> 
> While WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange battles to avoid extradition from the United Kingdom to Sweden, on the other side of the Atlantic Bradley Manning is facing a court martial. If found guilty he could spend the rest of his life in prison.
> 
> It's a case that has all the hallmarks of a spy thriller. Bradley Manning was a U.S. soldier serving in Iraq, when he allegedly downloaded classified files onto a disk storing Lady Gaga songs. It's alleged he then confided what he'd done to a computer hacker. A short time later the authorities arrested Manning and he's been in a military jail ever since.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (23 June 2012)

basilio said:


> Chuck Lorre Productions 13 Oct 2008




Brilliant bas 

Life is just one Vanity Card after another.

gg


----------



## basilio (23 June 2012)

Calliope said:


> What's that bit of garbage all about Bas? I think you may have reached the tipping point. Or are you now admitting that because hordes of people like you  say this guy is the second Messiah, then others will believe it?




If you can't connect the dots nothing I say can help you Calliope.


----------



## Calliope (23 June 2012)

basilio said:


> If you can't connect the dots nothing I say can help you Calliope.




I know that you believe in the Josef Goebbels mantra that if you 

“*Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.”*

This is borne out in your GW holocaust postings. The big lie being perpetrated by the Assange luvvies is that the poor little pet is fleeing from American aggression, and that somehow if he faced his Swedish questioners he would  end up in an American jail. This big lie has been repeated ad nauseum without a skerrick of evidence to back it up. 

But they say "what about poor Bradley Manning?" Manning is an American serviceman who was stupid enough to leak military secrets. He deserves everything he gets. Some see him as a martyr to the cause of fighting "American  Imperialism," okay but to be a martyr you have to suffer the consequences. 

Assange is nothing more than a grandstanding clown. To think that the Americans are interested in him is to give him status he doesn't deserve. Even Gillard sees through his bullsh*t.  

You should be happy that he will be able to continue his sexually promiscuous lifestyle in Ecuador. Perhaps his mother can join her little darling there.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (23 June 2012)

So_Cynical said:


> I think he could care less about the Swedes...its the yanks that have him scared sh!tless, they wana kill him.




I would agree SC.

What Assange doesn't realise,or maybe he does, is that he is slap bang in the middle of a War, undeclared as it is.

The US feel he has betrayed their secrets and they will get him one way or another.

His supporters in the UK are the usual gladwrapped collection of wet left and barmy liberals who collect clowns like Assange, as we collect share gossip.

It's as much a cultural as a military show, with an underlying menace.

He is the equivalent of Lord Haw Haw who the British hanged at the end of WW2 for treason, in the eyes of the US.

He is a dead man talking.

gg


----------



## Calliope (23 June 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I would agree SC.
> 
> What Assange doesn't realise,or maybe he does, is that he is slap bang in the middle of a War, undeclared as it is.
> 
> The US feel he has betrayed their secrets and they will get him one way or another.




Like Bas and SC the poor  boy is delusional, and he is a serial paranoid liar.  He is obsessed with some mythical *grand jury*.



> *WIKILEAKS founder Julian Assange concedes there is no current indictment pending against him that could result in his extradition to the US.*
> 
> But the WikiLeaks founder insists US prosecutors are building a case.
> 
> ...




Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/ass...nt/story-e6frfkvr-1226405036611#ixzz1yaUnqVV3


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (23 June 2012)

Thanks Calliope,

One of the interesting aspect of this brouhaha is that the Americans lack bottle with their enemies in close conflict.

This was well documeted in Vietnam and is still the case in Afghanistan and Pakistan. 

The Russians do it so much better.







They got poor ole Litvinenko with a cup of tea.

gg


----------



## Calliope (23 June 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Thanks Calliope,
> 
> One of the interesting aspect of this brouhaha is that the Americans lack bottle with their enemies in close conflict.




If the Americans think about Assange at all, it is only as a pest and not worth a cup of tea.


----------



## DB008 (29 June 2012)

*When it comes to Assange rape case, the Swedes are making it up as they go along*

Not that l read Crikey, but someone posted this on Reddit and I thought that it would be good to share on ASF.




> *When it comes to Assange rape case, the Swedes are making it up as they go along*
> 
> Both women boasted of their celebrity connection to Assange after the events that they would now see him destroyed for.
> 
> ...


----------



## Calliope (29 June 2012)

This stuff is 18 months old and has been repeated ad infinitum by the left. The Swedes want him to front up for questioning. There is no rape case.


----------



## DB008 (5 July 2012)

*Syria Files*

Wikileaks has now begun publishing the Syria Files. This should be interesting. Assange holed up in the embassy and some Governments who are publicly against Syria, might end up with egg on their faces.

http://wikileaks.org/syria-files/










> "The material is embarrassing to Syria, but it is also embarrassing to Syria's opponents. It helps us not merely to criticise one group or another, but to understand their interests, actions and thoughts. It is only through understanding this conflict that we can hope to resolve it.
> The Syria Files shine a light on the inner workings of the Syrian government and economy, but they also reveal how the West and Western companies say one thing and do another."



Wikileaks starts publishing two million 'Syria Files' emails


----------



## DB008 (5 August 2012)

From Al-Jazeera




> *UK cannot stop Assange flight to Ecuador*
> 
> 
> A top Spanish lawyer acting for the Wikileaks founder Julian Assange says Britain would have to allow Assange safe passage to Ecuador, should the South American country offer him asylum.
> ...



http://www.aljazeera.com/video/europe/2012/08/201284195549139637.html

Story on youtube


----------



## DB008 (13 August 2012)

*Wikileaks Is Getting Pummeled By Unknown Attackers*








> Wikileaks, the Internet's top platform for exposing secrets of all varieties, is reporting that it's been under serious attack for the better part of a week. This extended DDoS is still coming in strong, and has brought the site to its knees.
> 
> *The DDoS traffic, which has reportedly been coming in at a rate of 10 gigabits per second*, has effectively crippled the site, and raised all sorts of questions as to who might be behind it. While Wikileaks has no shortage of enemies, it recently published a number of classified U.S. documents detailing what may be a huge, secret surveillance project.




Site is down, but some mirrors are still up. http://dazzlepod.com/gifiles/

Also in the news this week, which might be part of the reason Wikileaks is getting smashed to bits, 'TrapWire' was uncovered new Stratfor e-mails released this week. US surveillance going to the extreme. 

*WikiLeaks dumps Stratfor email dirt on TrapWire, a CIA-connected global spying system*



> See something interesting and want to take a picture of it? It's a trap! No seriously, it is and it may have landed you in a suspicious activity report. Photography is allegedly part of a terrorist's pre-attack surveillance. WikiLeaks dumped more emails from hacked global intelligence company Strafor that shine a light on the secret TrapWire global spying system. TrapWire has deep ties to the CIA and is pre-crime surveillance justified by the war on terror.




Links in headers


----------



## DB008 (16 August 2012)

Unless a country is in a war or civil war, is it even possible to raid an embassy? If I remember correctly, the Yanks did, but it was their own embassy in Iran back in the 80's to free US hostages.

Still, this is an interesting development.


*Ecuador to announce Assange asylum, Britain threat to raid embassy*



> BRITAIN is threatening to raid the Ecuadorian embassy to arrest Wikileaks' founder Julian Assange.
> 
> Ecuador's foreign minister, Ricardo Patino, told a news conference that the South American nation had received a written and verbal threat on Wednesday from Britain that "it could assault our embassy" if Assange was not handed over.
> 
> ...




**EDIT**
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/uk-police-raid-assanges-embassy-refuge-20120816-249pe.html


> BREAKING NEWS: *Police have reportedly entered the Ecuadorian embassy in London where Australian WikiLeaks publisher Julian Assange is holed up after his request for political asylum*.
> 
> WikiLeaks tweeted this morning that two large police vans had arrived ‘‘to surround the Ecuadorian embassy in London’’ about midnight, local time.
> 
> One person stationed outside the embassy has started video streaming the action, saying eight police officers were at the embassy's door.







> The Ecuadorian Embassy, which is patrolled day and night by police instructed to arrest Assange for violating his bail conditions, is laid out in such a way that there is realistically only one way out.
> 
> "There is no other exit [other than the main one]”, an anonymous security manager at the building where the embassy is housed told Reuters. “He is going to have to come out of the main entrance," he continued.
> 
> ...



LOL

http://www.rt.com/news/assange-arrest-asylum-780/


----------



## prawn_86 (16 August 2012)

If British police do raid the Ecuadorian embassy that is a major break of international law (as i understand it) and in theory could be classed as a war act.

I know it wouldn't come to war but it sets a dangerous precedent if someone isnt safe in an embassy


----------



## DB008 (16 August 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> If British police do raid the Ecuadorian embassy that is a major break of international law (as i understand it) and in theory could be classed as a war act.
> 
> I know it wouldn't come to war but it sets a dangerous precedent if someone isnt safe in an embassy




l think your right prawn_86.

Someone tweeted this url, handy.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/d_to_g/diplomatic_immunity_and_diplomatic_premises/ 



> Principle - Diplomatic Premises
> 
> While diplomatic premises in the UK are part of UK territory, they are inviolable and may not be entered without the consent of the Ambassador or Head of Mission. (See DPA 1964 section 2(1) and schedule 3.) Any offences committed in diplomatic premises in the UK are triable under the ordinary principles of English law, subject to the principles of diplomatic immunity for those who have it. Those who do not have this status (whatever their nationality) can be prosecuted as normal, as for example happened in the case of the terrorists who seized the Iranian embassy in London in 1980.
> 
> ...


----------



## basilio (16 August 2012)

Someone is certainly keen to make sure Assange doesn't fly the coop. And its all over a questionable rape claim ?

It would be interesting to see how courageous the Brits would be to invade the Russian Embassy or heaven forbid the Yanks.


----------



## drsmith (16 August 2012)

basilio said:


> Someone is certainly keen to make sure Assange doesn't fly the coop.



How would the Ecuadorians get him out ?

A chopper on the roof in the dark of night ?

That's a bit noisy. An unmarked car and through the back door cat flap might be better.

What about a tunnel under the embassy into the underground sewer system ?

As for the Poms, it's perhaps a job for one of their 007's. That might be less of a media cricus than smashing through the front door.


----------



## McLovin (16 August 2012)

The British must have a short memory if they have already forgotten the tacit approval the Iranian government gave demostrators in that country to attack the British embassy last year. It's a dangerous precedent to set and one which could easily backfire on the British somewhere around the world.


----------



## DB008 (16 August 2012)

UK Memo to Ecuador 

http://pastebin.com/SKWms8n2


----------



## DB008 (16 August 2012)

DB008 said:


> UK Memo to Ecuador
> 
> http://pastebin.com/SKWms8n2







McLovin said:


> The British must have a short memory if they have already forgotten the tacit approval the Iranian government gave demostrators in that country to attack the British embassy last year. It's a dangerous precedent to set and one which could easily backfire on the British somewhere around the world.




I think your right McLovin
http://pastie.org/4521037



> I returned to the UK today to be astonished by private confirmation from within the FCO that the UK government has indeed decided – after immense pressure from the Obama administration – to enter the Ecuadorean Embassy and seize Julian Assange.
> 
> This will be, beyond any argument, a blatant breach of the Vienna Convention of 1961, to which the UK is one of the original parties and which encodes the centuries – arguably millennia – of practice which have enabled diplomatic relations to function. The Vienna Convention is the most subscribed single international treaty in the world.
> 
> ...


----------



## McLovin (16 August 2012)

They're trying to weasel out of it by citing some domestic legislation that really seems well beyond the scope of this situation.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/16/julian-assange-diplomatic-status-ecuador-embassy

As a dual British citizen, I can only say I expect more from my country.


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## drsmith (16 August 2012)

He's been granted asylum.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/wo...-to-raid-embassy/story-fnd134gw-1226451503293

Perhaps the British Grvernnment overplayed its hand slightly.


----------



## Glen48 (17 August 2012)

Be interesting to see what the land of the free does now they have been dealt a dud hand.
No doubt all the sanctions and dirty tricks possible will be enforced against Ecuador like some mad sociopath they need to win and can't be told what to do.

At least he has Gillard backing him as an OZ citizen...doesn't he?


----------



## Glen48 (17 August 2012)

A bit more about the loss of freedom and feds wanting control at any cost.


Sovereign Man
Notes from the Field

Date: August 16, 2012 
Reporting From: Carthage, Tunisia 
Wikileaks founder Julian Assange has made an admirable habit of enraging western governments over the last few years, particularly the United States. 

Most notably, his release of classified diplomatic documents in 2010 proved ruthlessly embarrassing, shining a spotlight on the absurd, petty little world of international relations. 

Ever since, the US government has done everything it can to stop him. Short of assassination. They shut down his website, but mirror sites instantly popped up. They sought legal action, but their efforts have been impeded by the bureaucratic deftness of his attorneys. They froze his bank accounts... but donations have poured in from all over the world. 

Along the way, Uncle Sam co-opted a number of allied nations to set aside their principles for the sake of US interests-- 

Switzerland rolled over immediately and shuttered Assange's bank accounts. 

Australia (his home country) has remained conspicuously silent on the matter, raising not a single word of protest in his defense. One high ranking Aussie politician even publicly suggested that Assange should be killed. 

Sweden has happily played along, trumping up dubious allegations about Assange and issuing an international arrest warrant. 

And now there's the UK, where Assange has been based. The British government located and arrested him, yet after his legal team was able to secure bail and delay extradition, Assange sought refuge at the Ecuadoran embassy in London. He's been living there for two months in violation of his bail. 

Assange knows that, if extradited to Sweden, he'll be shipped off to face the death penalty in the US... so the stakes are clearly high. He even petitioned Ecuador's president Rafael Correa for political asylum, and just hours ago, Correa agreed. 

Swarms of British police have now descended on the Ecuadoran embassy in London. This, on the heels of the British Foreign Ministry issuing a warning letter to Ecuador's government threatening to "take actions in order to arrest Mr. Assange in the current premises of the [Ecuadoran] embassy." 

Such a move would be appalling, to say the least. 

Embassies are hallowed sovereign ground, not to be trespassed. Ever. This is the most sacrosanct, fundamental, inviolable principle of international relations, explicitly codified in both the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations (1961) and the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations (1963). 

Article 27 of the latter, for example, states that "the receiving State [the UK in this case] shall, even in case of armed conflict, respect and protect the consular premises, together with the property of the consular post and the consular archives." 

International law seems pretty obvious here. Yet British police stand ready to storm the embassy, arrest Assange, and tear down decades of diplomatic precedent. 

In a way this is almost poetic. Assange is the man who exposed western diplomacy for the fraud that it is. That he would be sent to his death by an egregious violation of its most fundamental principle seems strangely appropriate. 

Regardless, the whole affair is perhaps the foulest example that western governments will ignore their own laws, or selectively apply them, whenever they see fit. 

Legal precedent means nothing. Rule of law means nothing. Free speech means nothing. Their own treaties mean nothing. It's unbelievable. Anyone in the west who honestly thinks he's still living in a free society is either a fool or completely out of touch. 

If that seems too radical an idea, consider that ECUADOR is now the only nation which stands to defend freedom and human rights against an assault from the United States, the United Kingdom, and their spineless allies. 

The west has just become a giant banana republic. Have you hit your breaking point yet? If not now... when?


----------



## qldfrog (17 August 2012)

+1
The west is now a banana republic with TV crap (reality shows sorry) fed masses whose highlight is to tweat about their last shopping trip, a world addicted to debt and so on the drip line from emerging countries like china who do work and produce.
And the lot under  elected ( or not: hello JG)  governments matching that level
Rousseau and the founding fathers must all be spinning in their coffins: all their effort for that.


----------



## prawn_86 (17 August 2012)

Good article Glen. Western governments are now pretty much dictatorships by fraudulent democracy.


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## DB008 (17 August 2012)

4 Corners went back and did an _update_ on the whole saga.

Very interesting. 

Looks into the 2 'rape and molestation' charges, which is now 1 charge, and was really about the girls wanting Assange to get a STD test, but morphed into a rape charge and leaked to the Swedish newspapers.
Not to mention that the Swedes actually let him go (cleared him of all charges), then issued a Interpole 'Red Alert' for his arrest when he was in the UK, right when the Iraq was logs were released.

Sweden is just like Australia, the States lap-dog. 

You, Jump! 
How high Sir?


http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/07/19/3549280.htm


----------



## Glen48 (17 August 2012)

I wonder if the two girls know each other and if so how, some one would have to disclosed their personal info which would be against the law but that different.

I think he should be give a medal, sex with two different Swedish girls is not a bad effort.
 Time will tell how much his new abode will have to pay for standing up to the West.


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## Glen48 (17 August 2012)

This now deceased USA citizen knew what was to come:

homas Jefferson

Thomas Jefferson was a very remarkable man who started learning very early in life and never stopped.
At 5, began studying under his cousin's tutor.
At 9, studied Latin, Greek and French.
At 14, studied classical literature and additional languages.
At 16, entered the College of William and Mary.
At 19, studied Law for 5 years starting under George Wythe.
At 23, started his own law practice.
At 25, was elected to the Virginia House of Burgesses.
At 31, wrote the widely circulated "Summary View of the Rights of British America” and retired from his law practice.
At 32, was a Delegate to the Second Continental Congress.
At 33, wrote the Declaration of Independence.
At 33, took three years to revise Virginia?s legal code and wrote a Public Education bill and a statute for Religious Freedom.
At 36, was elected the second Governor of Virginia succeeding Patrick Henry.
At 40, served in Congress for two years.
At 41, was the American minister to France and negotiated commercial treaties with European nations along with Ben Franklin and John Adams.
At 46, served as the first Secretary of State under George Washington.
At 53, served as Vice President and was elected president of the American Philosophical Society.
At 55, drafted the Kentucky Resolutions and became the active head of Republican Party.
At 57, was elected the third president of the United States .
At 60, obtained the Louisiana Purchase doubling the nation's size.
At 61, was elected to a second term as President.
At 65, retired to Monticello .
At 80, helped President Monroe shape the Monroe Doctrine.
At 81, almost single-handedly created the University of Virginia and served as its first president.
At 83, died on the 50th anniversary of the Signing of the Declaration of Independence along with John Adams
Thomas Jefferson knew because he himself studied the previous failed attempts at government. He understood actual history, the nature of God, his laws and the nature of man. That happens to be way more than what most understand today. Jefferson really knew his stuff. A voice from the past to lead us in the future:
John F. Kennedy held a dinner in the white House for a group of the brightest minds in the nation at that time. He made this statement: "This is perhaps the assembly of the most intelligence ever to gather at one time in the White House with the exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone."
"When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe ." -- Thomas Jefferson
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
-- Thomas Jefferson
"It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world."
-- Thomas Jefferson
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." -- Thomas Jefferson
"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government." -- Thomas Jefferson
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
-- Thomas Jefferson
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson
Thomas Jefferson said in 1802:
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.
If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property - until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."


----------



## DB008 (17 August 2012)

Glen48 said:


> I wonder if the two girls know each other and if so how, some one would have to disclosed their personal info which would be against the law but that different.
> 
> I think he should be give a medal, sex with two different Swedish girls is not a bad effort.
> Time will tell how much his new abode will have to pay for standing up to the West.




Watch the 4 corners doco Glen. 

'Both' the girls spoke to each other and went to the police station together to try to get Assange to get an STD test.
The police then 'somehow' managed to turn it into a rape allegation, which it was not, then managed to leak it to the Swedish tabloids.
How convenient.
One of the girls also rescinded her statement and refused to sign anything, after they twisted her info around. 

Also, if one of the girls who had been 'raped/molested' by Assange, why was she only metres away from him during a press conference and still going out to dinner with him? Doesn't make sense.


----------



## young-gun (17 August 2012)

DB008 said:


> 4 Corners went back and did an _update_ on the whole saga.
> 
> Very interesting.
> 
> ...




There was a small piece on triple j's hacked journalism segment a few weeks ago, and was in relation the the four corners story. After going through all the motions the girls didn't even want him arrested. All cause he didn't use a condom.


----------



## young-gun (17 August 2012)

Glen48 said:


> I wonder if the two girls know each other and if so how, some one would have to disclosed their personal info which would be against the law but that different.
> 
> I think he should be give a medal, sex with two different Swedish girls is not a bad effort.
> Time will tell how much his new abode will have to pay for standing up to the West.




The two girls were friends from what I've heard, I think there was a bit of jealousy involved at some point but not sure if it had a huge impact on anything that took place, sorry for the double post.


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## Glen48 (17 August 2012)

Why every one in OZ should have a Ecuadorian passport:
 He should get to Indo and find a migrant boat and treated as a refuge which will give him Feds protection and free legal aid:

The next thing is to see if UK does a legal Band E into the Ecuadorian embassy which will make it a whole new ball game world wide and prove no Embassy is safe yet it is suppose to be a little piece of the home country:

It is on this fear of persecution that Ecuadorian Foreign Minister Ricardo Patino offered Mr Assange political asylum.

"It is not impossible that he would be treated in a cruel manner, condemned to life in prison, or even the death penalty," Mr Patino told journalists in the Ecuadorian capital Quito.

"Ecuador is convinced that his procedural rights have been violated."

The US government insisted it had no intention of "persecuting" Mr Assange.

"I am not going to get into all of the legal ins and outs about what may or may not have been in his future before he chose to take refuge in the Ecuadorian mission," State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland told reporters.

Following Mr Patino's decision on Thursday the Ecuadorian government took a swipe at Australia for the lack of assistance offered to Mr Assange.

"Ecuador has noted that Mr Assange is without the due protection and help that he should receive from any state of which he is a citizen," it said in a statement.

In Canberra, federal Attorney-General Nicola Roxon said Australia would not intervene in the extradition debate, which is a matter between the UK and Ecuador.

Meanwhile fears that British authorities might storm the Ecuadorian embassy and nab Mr Assange were met with condemnation by Mr Patino and scores of WikiLeaks supporters.

"Hands off Ecuador. Hands off Assange," chanted the crowd outside the embassy, members of which carried banners and placards declaring support for the WikiLeaks leader.

More than five protesters were led away, some forcibly, by police as scenes became tense on Thursday morning. It was later confirmed that three people were arrested.

Inside the central London embassy, Mr Assange was grateful for Ecuador's support, but warned his challenges were not at an end.

"It is a significant victory for myself, and my people. Things will probably get more stressful now," he told staff at the embassy after hearing news of Mr Patino's decision.

"It was not Britain or my home country, Australia, that stood up to protect me from persecution, but a courageous, independent Latin American nation."

Learning news of her son's political asylum approval at home in Brisbane, Christine Assange said it was too soon to know what his next move would be.


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## Miss Hale (17 August 2012)

drsmith said:


> How would the Ecuadorians get him out ?
> 
> A chopper on the roof in the dark of night ?
> 
> ...




No matter how he eaves the Ecuardorian Embassy surely he would be auomatically picked up at the airport


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## McLovin (17 August 2012)

Miss Hale said:


> No matter how he eaves the Ecuardorian Embassy surely he would be auomatically picked up at the airport




How about in a bag with diplomatic tags on it?


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## So_Cynical (17 August 2012)

They just have to issue him a diplomatic passport, appoint him to a made up position in the London Embassy. :dunno:

All this Media attention and police attention makes it look very likely that Julian did make a wise decision...the US Agency's were coming after him for sure.


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## Calliope (17 August 2012)

McLovin said:


> How about in a bag with diplomatic tags on it?




A scumbag in a bag...I like that.

If anyone has doubts that Assange is a scumbag, his endorsement by the Greens should dispel their doubts.



> The Australian Greens welcomed Ecuador's decision and agreed that Australia had not done enough for the 41-year-old.
> 
> “What the Ecuadorian government has done in effect is offer Julian Assange the protection that the Australian government has failed to do,” Greens senator Scott Ludlam said.


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## Joules MM1 (17 August 2012)

this sounds like a whinge fest.....
disclosures and leaks

video

[video]http://www.opsecteam.org/index.html[/video]


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## drsmith (17 August 2012)

Miss Hale said:


> No matter how he eaves the Ecuardorian Embassy surely he would be auomatically picked up at the airport



Yes, Heathrow with a balaklava over his head might be a bit sus to say the least.

I was thinking of something more along the lines of a small plane and a small secluded airstrip.


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## Glen48 (18 August 2012)

I see a poll omn MSN should OZ help J  A

66 .200K yes
 66.00K NO
 But if they were in his situation be a different story.


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## DB008 (18 August 2012)

Australia 'preparing' for Assange extradition to US



> SYDNEY: Australia confirmed on Saturday that its diplomatic post in Washington had been preparing for Julian Assange's possible extradition to the US but played it down as "contingency planning".
> Trade minister Craig Emerson said the Australian embassy in Washington had been "getting prepared for the possibility of an extradition" but stressed that there was nothing unusual in diplomats bracing for all eventualities.
> 
> "The embassy is doing its job, just to be in a position to advise the government if it believed that an extradition effort was imminent. There is no evidence of such an extradition effort," Emerson told ABC television.




http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/rest-of-world/Australia-preparing-for-Assange-extradition-to-US/articleshow/15543671.cms


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## Glen48 (18 August 2012)

That would be the USA/australia Embassy if ti'st ok with Obama, you can imaging how long he would last in the OZ embassy , the water board would be poised to start work.


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## DB008 (18 August 2012)

Glen48 said:


> That would be the USA/australia Embassy if ti'st ok with Obama, you can imaging how long he would last in the OZ embassy , the water board would be poised to start work.




LOL!

As l have said previously, every country should be able to hold secrets (this is paramount), no doubt, but they still need to be held accountable for their actions, something which some members on ASF (and the general public) seem to miss...


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## awg (18 August 2012)

I reckon he is the epitome of a political refugee

His own govt has sold him out

Every bully boy govt in the world wants him thrown in a hole cause he spat in their face

The USA, Sweden, UK absolutely want him locked up

When I heard both the British and Swedish Foreign ministers/wankers bleating about him being wanted for "rape and serious sexual assualt allegations"...spare me!!... they are trivial...(in those jurisdictions)...but not in say Saudi Arabia, or many other countries...so if he had fully 100% consensual sex with 2 single women in those countries, this may be punishable by stoning him to death...what if those counties wanted to extradite him?...would they be still be calling serious rape and sex assault allegations then ?

The USA could solve the deadock instantly by guarantee they wont extradite him from Sweden.
Not much chance I reckon


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## sinner (18 August 2012)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_gadfly



> During his defense when on trial for his life, Socrates, according to Plato's writings, pointed out that dissent, like the gadfly, was easy to swat, but the cost to society of silencing individuals who were irritating could be very high. "If you kill a man like me, you will injure yourselves more than you will injure me," because his role was that of a gadfly, "to sting people and whip them into a fury, all in the service of truth." This may have been one of the earliest descriptions of pragmatic ethics.




Gadflies are easy to swat.

So what?


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## DB008 (19 August 2012)

Assange Escape Plan


----------



## DB008 (19 August 2012)

Reuters Live Stream

http://reuters.livestation.com/demo


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## DB008 (19 August 2012)

Interesting article regarding Swedish Police about questing a suspect....

http://www.unt.se/uppsala/mordmisstankt-forhord-i-serbien-1701566.aspx



> *Murder Suspect questioned in Serbia*
> Swedish police and prosecutors are now questioning the 21-year-old man from Uppsala, which is being held in Belgrade on suspicion of murdering a 26-year-old in an apartment on Vaksalagatan Christmas.





Pot.Kettle.Black.  ???????????????????????????????????????

(I used the google translate function...sorry if it's a bit off)


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## Calliope (20 August 2012)

Assange's selection of Equador for asylum seems ironic for somebody who claims to be the messiah of truth.



> Ecuador is currently ranked at 104 out of 179 countries on its level of press freedom by Reporters Without Borders.
> 
> Journalists have been jailed and media organisations shut down for filing negative reports about the nation's government.







http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-...-says-his-mother/story-fn775xjq-1226453940505


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## prawn_86 (20 August 2012)

Calliope said:


> Assange's selection of Equador for asylum seems ironic for somebody who claims to be the messiah of truth.




Yes Ecuador do have some heavy handed press controls. I think it was more the case of who would accept his asylum request. 

I still dont see how someone can be deported for questioning of accusations? If i wanted to question someone overseas does that now mean i can get them deported to when i am to question them without charge?


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## McLovin (20 August 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> Yes Ecuador do have some heavy handed press controls. I think it was more the case of who would accept his asylum request.
> 
> I still dont see how someone can be deported for questioning of accusations? If i wanted to question someone overseas does that now mean i can get them deported to when i am to question them without charge?




Different legal system. Inquisitive v adversarial. That's what the whole kerfuffle about the warrant was about. It had come from a prosecutor instead of a judge.


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## Calliope (23 August 2012)

The Simpsons meet Assange.

[video=vimeo;37089591]http://vimeo.com/37089591[/video]


----------



## DB008 (23 August 2012)

LOL!

http://www.sportsbet.com.au/betting/current-affairs







and


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## McLovin (23 August 2012)

The odds of him leaving in a diplomatic bag are $4.50??? I'll lay that bet. That seems about as far-fetched as the jet pack.

Oh and as for the tunnel, the embassy is on the third floor of the building. Not sure how you build a tunnel up there.


----------



## Julia (23 August 2012)

I'm wondering about how all the people who so applauded Julian Assange for the indiscriminate leaking of material now such a long time ago.
Do they still see him as a hero?


----------



## wayneL (23 August 2012)

They could give this a go:


----------



## bellenuit (24 August 2012)

Julia said:


> I'm wondering about how all the people who so applauded Julian Assange for the indiscriminate leaking of material now such a long time ago.
> Do they still see him as a hero?




I support what Wikileaks is doing, but I don't hold Assange in any esteem. I think he as a person is not relevant to what Wikileaks does. 

When you say indiscriminate leaking of material, I assume you are referring to the risk to some undercover agents or informers that may result from the information leaked. Is that really the case or is that just what the US government has used as an excuse so that they can put a stop to Wikileaks. I think they are more concerned that the public should know what they are really up to and the supposed danger informants were put in is just a smokescreen. 

I don't recall all the information leaked to date, but much of it seemed very relevant at the time and not something that should be hid from the public. I doubt that the information leaked was unknown to the enemies of our western democracies as they do not need Wikileaks to obtain such information. The US and other governments are more concerned that their own citizens are privy to this information.


----------



## prawn_86 (24 August 2012)

bellenuit said:


> I support what Wikileaks is doing, but I don't hold Assange in any esteem. I think he as a person is not relevant to what Wikileaks does.




I feel the same. I think wikileaks as an idea is something that corrupt, crony capitalist Western governmments need to know exists. The more information that is available to the public the better, and the sooner they might realise that Western leaders are no better than those they wage wars against.

As a person i think Assange is a massive attention seeker, although i have never met the man so shouldn't really comment, but he is probably the type of person Wikileaks needed in order to garner public interest and keep it in the spotlight


----------



## spooly74 (24 August 2012)

Julia said:


> I'm wondering about how all the people who so applauded Julian Assange for the indiscriminate leaking of material now such a long time ago.
> Do they still see him as a hero?




I'm thinking if anyone's the hero its the initial whistleblower sitting in a cell.
Assange/Wikileaks are only a tool for the transfer of info.

IIRC, Didn't they only release the US cables etc to publications, who in turn made the decision to publish it?
Couldn't that make the New York Times et al the 'heros'?


----------



## DB008 (25 August 2012)

spooly74 said:


> I'm thinking if anyone's the hero its the initial whistleblower sitting in a cell.
> Assange/Wikileaks are only a tool for the transfer of info.
> 
> IIRC, Didn't they only release the US cables etc to publications, who in turn made the decision to publish it?
> Couldn't that make the New York Times et al the 'heros'?




I agree. I think that JA is a douche, but Governments have to be held accountable for their actions, just like every other person on the planet.

Anyways, have a look at this...

http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/9-11-coloring-book-features-terrorist-trading-cards-204300629.html

http://imgur.com/a/3ZqNo#0


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## drsmith (25 August 2012)

McLovin said:


> The odds of him leaving in a diplomatic bag are $4.50??? I'll lay that bet.



I note that dead or alive is not qualified.


----------



## Glen48 (25 August 2012)

Madness  the amount on money wasted on terror is a con to get western countries to arm up only ever caught a couple one with a bomb in this shoe the other in his undies.


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## noco (27 August 2012)

Perhaps, just maybe, Julian Assange has been set up. 

The evidence from the link below might get him off the hook.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...egations/story-fnd12peo-1226458585105#Scene_1


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## Glen48 (27 August 2012)

Would not worry the Yanks , their policy is never let the facts stand in the way of a good story.
The one's who should be complaining are the two girls who are being forced to accuse him by the sounds of it.


----------



## DB008 (27 August 2012)

Not sure why the courier mail didn't put the image up??



> The face of the woman on the left has been obscured for legal reasons.
> 
> For although she is seen beaming, she would later tell police that 48 hours before the picture was taken, the WikiLeaks founder pinned her down in her flat and sexually assaulted her.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-claim-Is-photo-clear-him.html#ixzz24ha3uvFg











This was raised by the 4 Corners doco, July 24th 2012.
http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/07/19/3549280.htm


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## Calliope (26 February 2013)

Bob Carr and Malcolm Turnbull agree on Assange's and his supporter's nonsense about his extradition to Sweden.



> ALEXANDRA KIRK: Both have strong views about the case of another Australian, Wikileaks founder Julian Assange, who's been in Ecuador's embassy in London for the past eight months.
> 
> Bob Carr says he's offered to help break the impasse.
> 
> ...




http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2013/s3698182.htm


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## DB008 (20 June 2015)

*The Saudi Cables*

This is huge!

Shows what worldwide a$$holes the Saudi's are.

*The Saudi Cables​*


> Today, Friday 19th June at 1pm GMT, WikiLeaks began publishing The Saudi Cables: more than half a million cables and other documents from the Saudi Foreign Ministry that contain secret communications from various Saudi Embassies around the world. The publication includes "Top Secret" reports from other Saudi State institutions, including the Ministry of Interior and the Kingdom's General Intelligence Services. The massive cache of data also contains a large number of email communications between the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and foreign entities. The Saudi Cables are being published in tranches of tens of thousands of documents at a time over the coming weeks.
> Today WikiLeaks is releasing around 70,000 documents from the trove as the first tranche.




*https://wikileaks.org/saudi-cables/*​



*Present King of Saudi​*

By 1996, NSA wiretaps reveal that Prince Salman is funding Islamic militants using charity fronts.
A 1996 CIA report mentions, “We continue to have evidence that even high ranking members of the collecting or monitoring agencies in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Pakistan - such as the Saudi High Commission - are involved in illicit activities, including support for terrorists"http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=khalil_ziyad_1


*Saudi Royal Family​*

Prince Naif bin Abdulaziz al Saud, the Saudi interior minister and a member of the royal family, gave al Qaeda money in support of international terrorism. In addition, as interior minister, he controls the activities of numerous Islamic charities that have helped finance al Qaeda, the suit alleges.
Prince Abudullah al Faisal bin Abdulaziz al Saud, the former Saudi health minister and a royal family member, aided al Qaeda through his role as majority owner of Alfaisliah Group, which employed an al Qaeda financier, Muhammed Galeb Kalaje Zouaydi, who is now jailed in Spain awaiting trial.http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/9-11-victims-suit-expanded-New-defendants-in-2750966.php


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## DB008 (23 October 2015)

*CIA Director John Brennan emails​*



> Today, 21 October 2015 and over the coming days WikiLeaks is releasing documents from one of CIA chief John Brennan's non-government email accounts. Brennan used the account occasionally for several intelligence related projects.
> 
> John Brennan became the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency in March 2013, replacing General David Petraeus who was forced to step down after becoming embroiled in a classified information mishandling scandal. Brennan was made Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism on the commencement of the Obama presidency in 2009--a position he held until taking up his role as CIA chief.
> 
> ...





https://wikileaks.org/cia-emails/​


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## DB008 (24 February 2016)

*NSA Targets World Leaders for US Geopolitical Interests​*



> Today, 23 February 2016 at 00:00 GMT [updated 12:20 GMT], WikiLeaks publishes highly classified documents showing that the US National Security Agency bugged a private climate change strategy meeting; between UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon and German Chancellor Angela Merkel in Berlin; singled out the Chief of Staff of UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) for long term interception targetting his Swiss phone; singled out the Director of the Rules Division of the World Trade Organisation (WTO), Johann Human, and targetted his Swiss phone for long term interception; stole sensitive Italian diplomatic cables detailing how Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu implored Italy's Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi to help patch up his relationship with US President Barack Obama, who was refusing to talk to Netanyahu; intercepted top EU and Japanese trade ministers discussing their secret strategy and red lines to stop the US "extort[ing]" them at the WTO Doha arounds (the talks subsequently collapsed); explicitly targetted five other top EU economic officials for long term interception, including their French, Austrian and Belgium phone numbers; explicitly targetted the phones of Italy's ambassador to NATO and other top Italian officials for long term interception; and intercepted details of a critical private meeting between then French president Nicolas Sarkozy, Merkel and Berluscon, where the latter was told the Italian banking system was ready to "pop like a cork".
> 
> Some of the intercepts are classified TOP-SECRET COMINT-GAMMA and are the most highly classified documents ever published by a media organization.
> 
> ...






https://wikileaks.org/nsa-201602/​


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## SirRumpole (24 February 2016)

I thought Assange said he was going to walk out of the Embassy after the UN Committee announcement.

Obviously he's changed his mind.


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## DB008 (4 April 2016)

Wasn't sure where to put this. This is huge.

*Panama Papers​*



> Over a year ago, an anonymous source contacted the SÃ¼ddeutsche Zeitung (SZ) and submitted encrypted internal documents from Mossack Fonseca, a Panamanian law firm that sells anonymous offshore companies around the world. These shell firms enable their owners to cover up their business dealings, no matter how shady.
> 
> In the months that followed, the number of documents continued to grow far beyond the original leak. Ultimately, SZ acquired about 2.6 terabytes of data, making the leak the biggest that journalists had ever worked with. The source wanted neither financial compensation nor anything else in return, apart from a few security measures.
> 
> The data provides rare insights into a world that can only exist in the shadows. It proves how a global industry led by major banks, legal firms, and asset management companies secretly manages the estates of the world’s rich and famous: from politicians, Fifa officials, fraudsters and drug smugglers, to celebrities and professional athletes.





http://panamapapers.sueddeutsche.de/articles/56febff0a1bb8d3c3495adf4/​


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## bellenuit (4 April 2016)

DB008 said:


> Wasn't sure where to put this. This is huge.
> 
> *Panama Papers​*




Yes. This is huge. There are already calls for the President of Iceland to resign (he and his wife are involved). It seems people close to Putin, and most likely acting as an intermediary for him, are also involved in relation to $2B of investments. I doubt if this will have any effect on Putin though. Anyone who dares to raise it as an issue in Russia will likely end up at the bottom of the Volga.


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## DB008 (19 June 2016)

Huge leak coming

Insurance torrent is out (encrypted torrent)






https://mobile.twitter.com/wikileaks/status/743824112376766465​


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## DB008 (25 October 2016)

US trying to flush Assange out of his hole in London

Not surprising


*The US told Ecuador to give Wikileaks 'an eviction notice,' according to intelligence officials​*


> The US government quietly urged Ecuador to cut off internet access for Wikileaks founder Julian Assange, according to intelligence officials who spoke with NBC News.
> 
> “It was a bit of an eviction notice,” one senior intelligence official said.
> 
> ...





http://www.businessinsider.com.au/us-wikileaks-internet-2016-10?r=US&IR=T​


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## DB008 (25 October 2016)

Swings and roundabouts hey...

They don't like it when it comes back to bite them on the ass

​


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## DB008 (25 October 2016)

LOL @ the MSM (Main Stream Media) in America. What a joke.

This sums it up in 1 go....


​


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## DB008 (8 December 2016)

No surprises here...



*Police admit sex complaint against Assange was fabricated in elaborate plot​*

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/806511165593501696​


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## orr (18 January 2017)

Chelsea Manning to be released in May. 28 years earlier than her expected release Date. Obama Commutes sentence. 
'Collateral Murder' is still up on youtube. 
It stands as a testament to the necessity of whistle blowers to address the over reach of Power...
Chelsea Manning you are a hero.


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## DB008 (15 October 2017)

My deepest thanks to the US government, Senator McCain and Senator Lieberman for pushing Visa, MasterCard, Payal, AmEx, Mooneybookers, et al, into erecting an illegal banking blockade against @WikiLeaks starting in 2010. It caused us to invest in Bitcoin -- with > 50000% return.







https://twitter.com/JulianAssange/status/919247873648283653?s=09​


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## DB008 (1 November 2022)

Huge Wikileaks Dump


Hillary Clinton's emails (https://file.wikileaks.org/file/clinton-emails/)
McCain's being guilty
Vegas shooting done by an FBI sniper
Steve Jobs HIV letter
PedoPodesta
Afghanistan
Syria
Iran
Bilderberg
CIA agents arrested for rape
WHO pandemic

https://file.wikileaks.org/file/


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