# Thank God I'm Australian



## roland (15 February 2008)

Every night I watch the news from around the world, and every day I cannot but feel so privaledged that I am born and bred an Aussie.

Sure, we have some problems .... trying to get along with our Aboriginal countrymen, some racial conflicts with our newest Australians, some security concerns with minority extremists, environmental issues with droughts, then floods....., but all in all we are so lucky.

No need to list the worries of the world that are all too well present, with all the deaths, conflicts, wars, racial and religious struggles that are continually beamed to us "via satellite" on our TV screens, but I wonder how we will remain safe and isolated from the conflicts that are slowly sucking in the broader parts of the globe.

The human streetscape, even in my little suburb in the inner west of Sydney is changing. I am seeing a lot more tall very black Afican (Sudanese?) people, women in full muslim wear, many middle eastern looking males and slowly but surely I am feeling the typical Aussie is disappearing.

I understand that the birth rate amongst our muslim community is nearly triple that of the multi-generational Australians.

How long before we lose our typical True Blue Aussie identity?


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## chatty (15 February 2008)

fear of losing identity????or some sort  of stepping out of comfort zone???
or you base human value on religion, complexion, race, etcccc???
curious...


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## ithatheekret (15 February 2008)

It's a commo world mate ( cosmopolitan ) , to trade , we must co-exist .


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## black_bird2 (15 February 2008)

I hear what you are saying, however, I too see a heap of migrants in my community performing a service. I hear of commercial TV telling me of Gen Y demanding $$ for no experience labour. I read about the fact that the population needs to be boosted for production to continue at it's current rate to be economically viable in the global economy. I am not doo-gooder by any stretch, however, there is an immigration policy and it might play a more active part in future superannuation activities - ie. the more contributed in future, the more readily the payouts to members.

Again Roland, I hear what you are saying and I will admit I am a fence sitter (bound to get splinters!) but this importation of bodies (assumed as - dare I say it cheap! - labour) might be complementary to the product out of our schools/universities.
Just my 2 cents.


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## Wysiwyg (15 February 2008)

roland said:


> Every night I watch the news from around the world, and every day I cannot but feel so privaledged that I am born and bred an Aussie.
> 
> Sure, we have some problems .... trying to get along with our Aboriginal countrymen, some racial conflicts with our newest Australians, some security concerns with minority extremists, environmental issues with droughts, then floods....., but all in all we are so lucky.




If t.v. or newspaper were not watched then these events would not be a problem because one would not know about them.Even knowing about these issues doesn`t make them problems for `everyone`.


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## roland (15 February 2008)

Who has driven through the main street of Auburn lately? I dropped my wife off there at a local Church Hall for her arts & crafts meeting and now know the area well.

It is such an alien feeling that exudes from that area, it certainly doesn't feel like Australia. For lunch, I bought us both a pork filled roll from the local Vietnamese bread shop there (pork bun). The asian lady running the bread shop tells me of the monthly costs of replacing her front window because she is selling sandwich fillings that are not acceptable by the local "Australians"

I kinda like my bacon and eggs on a Sunday morning


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## roland (15 February 2008)

Wysiwyg said:


> If t.v. or newspaper were not watched then these events would not be a problem because one would not know about them.Even knowing about these issues doesn`t make them problems for `everyone`.




but they are being watched, and then there is the internet which is helping disseminate alternative views and support for radical thinking.


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## noirua (4 September 2008)

Does having an Australian passport make you Australian?  Do you have to be brought up mainly in Australia to be Australian? 
If you come from a foreign country and fail to successfully apply for Australian citizenship, no matter how long you have been in Australia, you are certainly not Australian. 
It still surprises me how so many who seem to have lived all their lives in Australia don't really support their country properly. There seems at times to be as many whinging Aussies as Poms.


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## wayneL (4 September 2008)

noirua said:


> Does having an Australian passport make you Australian?  Do you have to be brought up mainly in Australia to be Australian?
> If you come from a foreign country and fail to successfully apply for Australian citizenship, no matter how long you have been in Australia, you are certainly not Australian.
> It still surprises me how so many who seem to have lived all their lives in Australia don't really support their country properly. There seems at times to be as many whinging Aussies as Poms.




What is Australia?

The land mass?

The people?

The culture? (ahem)

The government?

What is an Australian?

Someone who lives on that island?

Someone who was born on that island?

Someone who acts like an ocker(ina)?

Someone with an Australian Passport?

Someone who is indigenous to that island?

Over there she was considered a Brit because of the way she talks.

Over here she is considered an Aussie because of the way she talks.

She has always considered herself a Kenyan.

I have three passports, what am I?


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## overit (4 September 2008)

roland said:


> Every night I watch the news from around the world, and every day I cannot but feel so privaledged that I am born and bred an Aussie.




For an alternate view there is probably people watching the news and thinking thank god I dont live in Australia. All those damn animal attacks and dangerous sting rays, crocodiles, sharks, snakes, and not to mention all those racists that exist there. By gee's I wont be going to cronulla anytime soon and who is the redneck politician I have heard about. Better watch out you dont get abducted whilst your there too. I heard about this forest where they kill backpackers and then this pommy couple in the desert got attacked.

Not saying Australia is bad, I think it is top notch. Just that if you watch the news you only seem to hear about the bad things going on inside a country. It would be easy to see people being scared of australia. I even recall that the australian tourism board at one stage was trying to portray australia as a safe place because of people being scared. Cant recall though which country it was in.


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## cutz (4 September 2008)

So what are you getting at Roland?
Are you thanking god that you are Australian, or the migrants that are moving into your area starting to worry you.


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## Prospector (4 September 2008)

roland said:


> I kinda like my bacon and eggs on a Sunday morning




Weren't they imported from England?


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## Sean K (4 September 2008)

Maybe the title should be 'Bloody lucky I was born in Australia.'

Having travelled a bit, lived in Rwanda, East Timor and now South America for over a year, being born into our country, and culture, is a very nice coincidence.

Thanks for being deported family.


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## nioka (4 September 2008)

Prospector said:


> Weren't they imported from England?




 That is where the original real "aussies" came from. There were no "aussies" until the poms sent their "best" out here to become the first real Aussies. They brought out the aussie spirit which has been adapted by the migrants from then on until the mid 20th century. Whether it will survive the "multicultural" push is questionable.


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## wayneL (4 September 2008)

kennas said:


> Maybe the title should be 'Bloody lucky I was born in Australia.'
> 
> Having travelled a bit, lived in Rwanda, East Timor and now South America for over a year, being born into our country, and culture, is a very nice coincidence.
> 
> Thanks for being deported family.




So your an ethnic Pom?


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## wayneL (4 September 2008)

nioka said:


> That is where the original real "aussies" came from. There were no "aussies" until the poms sent their "best" out here to become the first real Aussies. They brought out the aussie spirit which has been adapted by the migrants from then on until the mid 20th century. Whether it will survive the "multicultural" push is questionable.




So the Aborigines aren't original or real?


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## disarray (4 September 2008)

cutz said:


> So what are you getting at Roland?
> Are you thanking god that you are Australian, or the migrants that are moving into your area starting to worry you.




migrants have already "taken over" entire areas of sydney. the crime rate in these areas is extremely high, local gangs have taken over the streets, and the police are useless because the bureaucracy is more concerned with protecting peoples feelings than their life and property. even in my eastern suburbs area groups of aboriginal youths run around assaulting people (especially asian women) outside the shopping precinct in broad daylight and taking their purses. the cops don't give a ****, and what can they do with a bunch of 16 year old feral abo kids anyway? minorities are a protected species because it must be oh so hard for them to have to adjust to life in a first world country.

crime statistics clearly point out that sudanese and lebanese migrants are hugely overrepresented as perpertrators of crime, and as is the case in most countries where white people have to live with blacks and arabs, white people are overrepresented as victims of crime. go google rape in sweden for starters.

there is absolutely nothing wrong with questioning immigration policies, criticising other cultures and demanding that people who come to this country respect and uphold our way of life. instead we have sudanese arriving and immediately spiking the crime rates, and muslims going on about "muslim only" swimming days at the pool, fast food outlets not being able to serve pork products, and their desire to set up their own little state so they can implement sharia and go back to living like peasants from the middle ages.

people are utterly nieve about the true nature of islam. at least people have stopped with the "islam is the religion of peace" line because we've all picked up on the fact that this is bs, so now with a bit more research people can discover that islam isn't just a religion, it's a political doctrine, and mohammed wasn't some glorious prophet, he was a mass murdering paedophiliac narcissistic warlord with delusions of grandeur (pbuh).

i appreciate people have to step carefully when laying criticism because people always jump up and down crying "racist", but seriously, some cultures are dysfunctional are we sure as hell should NOT be importing more of these people into this country. theres millions of english speaking educated europeans who would love to settle in australia (and possibly flee parts of europe that are becoming unlivable due to immigration) we could open the doors too without worrying about cultural or religious baggage.


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## Sean K (4 September 2008)

wayneL said:


> So your an ethnic Pom?



LOL. 

A blend of Scottish, Irish and Pom.

Must be more Irish though because I had two great great grandparents die falling down mine shafts.


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## nioka (4 September 2008)

wayneL said:


> So the Aborigines aren't original or real?




 Never said they werent here first or that they are not real. However they are not the "AUSSIES" that the world knows or representative of the "AUSSIE SPIRIT" as it exists. The aussies are the battlers that made this country great through hard work, through world wars as servicemen and women, through sporting achievements etc. That includes some aboriginals and some asians but the majority were european christians.


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## wayneL (4 September 2008)

nioka said:


> Never said they werent here first or that they are not real. However they are not the "AUSSIES" that the world knows or representative of the "AUSSIE SPIRIT" as it exists. The aussies are the battlers that made this country great through hard work, through world wars as servicemen and women, through sporting achievements etc. That includes some aboriginals and some asians but the majority were european christians.



What is Aussie Spirit?

What makes it different to English Spirit, or Dutch Spirit, or Turkish Spirit or German Spirit, or, or, or, etc etc?

They all are battlers that made their countries great through hard work, world wars as servicemen and women and through sporting achievements etc as well.


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## disarray (4 September 2008)

wayneL said:


> What is Aussie Spirit?
> 
> What makes it different to English Spirit, or Dutch Spirit, or Turkish Spirit or German Spirit, or, or, or, etc etc?




its unique to the culture. its more egalitarian than the english for starters. probably less nationalistic than the germans. dunno about the dutch, and the turks are currently in the grip of a hearts and minds battle between the islamists and secularists so we'll see how that pans out before we assess their spirit.


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## nioka (4 September 2008)

wayneL said:


> What is Aussie Spirit?
> 
> What makes it different to English Spirit, or Dutch Spirit, or Turkish Spirit or German Spirit, or, or, or, etc etc?




 TO me it is a few things that are disappearing rapidly.

 Mateship
 A fair go for all. 
 Pull your weight.
 Respect for others and their point of view.
 Have a go regardless of the perceived obstacles.
 Reject snobbery.
 Do business on the shake of the hand.
 No worries mate.


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## disarray (4 September 2008)

nioka said:


> Pull your weight.




wish we could legislate for this


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## wayneL (4 September 2008)

disarray said:


> its unique to the culture. its more egalitarian than the english for starters. probably less nationalistic than the germans. dunno about the dutch, and the turks are currently in the grip of a hearts and minds battle between the islamists and secularists so we'll see how that pans out before we assess their spirit.




But what is it? And what is the culture?

Apart from the accent, I don't actually notice much difference between the English and Aussies, "spirit wise". In many ways, I find the English more egalitarian, but not others.

It's much easier to make friends here, and modern Germany is not as nationalistic as Oz.


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## nioka (4 September 2008)

disarray said:


> wish we could legislate for this



 Now that would be unaustralian! As Australians we object to those that don't so you are qualifying as one if you object to those that don't pull their weight.


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## wayneL (4 September 2008)

nioka said:


> TO me it is a few things that are disappearing rapidly.
> 
> Mateship
> A fair go for all.
> ...




All those ideals exist here in England. Just different terminology.

Aussie spirit is just human spirit. It is in common with all people, if allowed to be.


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## nioka (4 September 2008)

wayneL said:


> All those ideals exist here in England. Just different terminology.
> 
> Aussie spirit is just human spirit. It is in common with all people, if allowed to be.



 In that case I must have been places where the inhabitants aren't human. They should exist in England, it is where most of it came from in the first place.


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## disarray (4 September 2008)

wayneL said:


> But what is it? And what is the culture?
> 
> Apart from the accent, I don't actually notice much difference between the English and Aussies, "spirit wise". In many ways, I find the English more egalitarian, but not others.
> 
> It's much easier to make friends here, and modern Germany is not as nationalistic as Oz.




spirit and identity are more emotional than logical and so are harder to define. identity and cultural norms are "felt" because they aren't taught but absorbed as your grow. the wider the group you find yourself in then the farther you cast your identity net.

eg. an aussie in africa would more closely identify with a german because of similarities in appearance, education, culture, religion, politics etc. than with the locals. but in germany the aussie wouldn't identify as strongly with the germans, but would if he came across another aussie.

this is all just social construct stuff and by looking at a society and its history then you can see how it evolved and identify the cultural markers that evolved from each societies unique set of circumstances. its not "the aussie spirit is this clearly definable thing" but its the worldview we hold because of the upbringing we received.



			
				nioka said:
			
		

> Now that would be unaustralian!




well thats part of the discussion isn't it? plenty of people live here don't identify as australian. do they get a free ride?


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## Trembling Hand (4 September 2008)

nioka said:


> TO me it is a few things that are disappearing rapidly..



 Really??




> Mateship



 Come on! that is not a unique "Aussie" trait


> A fair go for all.



 Thats more of a myth than fact. What can you do in Oz that you carn't do in any western country??


> Pull your weight.



 Does that include the stereotypical "Aussie bludger"


> Respect for others and their point of view.



 Australian "society" is more than likely to have either an agree/disagree on most subjects without much discussion from anyone outside the pollies or journos. We are pathetic as far as interest groups and civil discussions goes. Pathetic!!


> Have a go regardless of the perceived obstacles.



 I thought that was the American dream!

As for the rest. See Wayne's comment.


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## nioka (4 September 2008)

disarray said:


> well thats part of the discussion isn't it? plenty of people live here don't identify as australian. do they get a free ride?




The aussies I know wouldn't want legislation they would just want to kick their ar  butts.


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## nioka (4 September 2008)

No one would suggest that aussies have a monopoly on any or all of the traits. Anyway I'm going to do the aussie thing and go fishing. See ya later.


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## kagiesen (4 September 2008)

wayneL said:


> What is Aussie Spirit?
> 
> What makes it different to English Spirit, or Dutch Spirit, or Turkish Spirit or German Spirit, or, or, or, etc etc?
> 
> They all are battlers that made their countries great through hard work, world wars as servicemen and women and through sporting achievements etc as well.




Totally agree.  Why do so many Aussies think it's unique to them?  Cos they read the crappy newspapers available in this oh so great country.  And possibly have never lived anywhere else (maybe apart from the UK) to qualify their uninformed statements.

And what's this thread doing on this forum anyway?

And I have not experienced Germans to be more nationalistic at all.  They don't fly flags, they don't sing their anthems in school, they have no Germany Day, so how are they nationalistic?  Also, the Germans' horrible and inexcusable past is much longer ago than Australia's White policy. 

Unfortunately, whilst most Australians are patriotic (ie love to their own country, which is fine), an increasing number is also nationalistic (disrespect for other countries and cultures, a feeling of white supremacy etc, and bumper stickers such as 'Australia, if you don't love it, leave it' - ever thought that maybe one can be critical and possibly should be of certain things and still have a right to live here?  Germany can be proud of the 'subversive elements' during Nazi German, people who actually spoke up and were criticial.  Cos if something is wrong, people should be allowed to speak up).  

I am German.  I am not proud of it, I am not ashamed of it, I am happy to be German, nothing more, nothing less.  How can one be proud of something that's a mere coincidence, ie being born to German parents in Germany?  Should one not limit one's pride to things one has achieved?

I love it here in Australia.  I also would love it in other places.  I know how lucky I am that I had the fortune to be born and bread in a country with a sound democracy and Human Rights.  Some people aren't as lucky, and I am happy to share with anyone who genuinely wants to live their life here in Oz, cos they might not be alive any more where they come from.


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## pepperoni (4 September 2008)

Not long ago "aussies" wouldnt drink plonk or eat asian food ... now its a highlight of the australian experience.  

What most people would call an "aussie" are a sad minority relic ... much like people wearing MC Hammer pants with patterns shaved into their haircuts.

The full on aussie had less history than the modern multicultural australian ... the ones that cling to it for lack of anything else worthwhile in their lives are the bitter living dead overcompensating in a  ute with truck mudflaps and big CB antennas. With a good side order of racism and xenophobia that gives normal australians a bad name.

Australia is now a rich and increasingly sophisticated and international place ... adapt or perish.

And yes I was born on the northern beaches and have lived here my whole life.


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## pepperoni (4 September 2008)

roland said:


> I understand that the birth rate amongst our muslim community is nearly triple that of the multi-generational Australians.




Good luck to them ... they must be doing something right and to the winner go the spoils.

Im christian but youve gotta at least say they have their **** together culturally or religiously when it comes to getting married and having families.

Have more kids or be happy for them ... they are a part of the modern aussie culture.


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## xyzedarteerf (4 September 2008)

roland said:


> I understand that the birth rate amongst our muslim community is nearly triple that of the multi-generational Australians.




its happening worldwide not just in Australia.


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## Santob (4 September 2008)

You all need to get a southern cross tattoo, some frangipani stickers on your car, and wave that Aussie Flag. Anything else is UnAusutralian damnit.


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## jersey10 (4 September 2008)

roland said:


> Every night I watch the news from around the world, and every day I cannot but feel so privaledged that I am born and bred an Aussie.
> 
> Sure, we have some problems .... trying to get along with our Aboriginal countrymen, some racial conflicts with our newest Australians, some security concerns with minority extremists, environmental issues with droughts, then floods....., but all in all we are so lucky.
> 
> ...




Have you been anywhere else besides Australia? I wouldn't be too reliant on the media to paint you an accurate picture of other countries.

Ask people overseas who have never been to Australia and they think there are no banks in Australia, kangaroos are jumping up and down the road all day and if you go swimming at the beach you will get eaten by a shark.


The True Blue Aussie Identity - what a load of bollocks.  Why are some people so obsessed with maintaining this stereotype.

Can i have a description of who or what this is??


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## pepperoni (4 September 2008)

jersey10 said:


> Have you been anywhere else besides Australia? I wouldn't be too reliant on the media to paint you an accurate picture of other countries.
> 
> Ask people overseas who have never been to Australia and they think there are no banks in Australia, kangaroos are jumping up and down the road all day and if you go swimming at the beach you will get eaten by a shark.
> 
> ...




Having seen that doco about the corbys I know what the modern "tru blue ocker" is all about.  Trouble is most people call them yobbos and bogans nowadays.  

They are most common in areas like macquaries fields and have the same effect of property prices as mobile phone towers and high power lines.

The american equivalent is that cletus guy off the simpsons, but he has a couple of hundred extra years of history, tradition and culture behind him.


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## xyzedarteerf (4 September 2008)

Let me take you down, 'cause I'm going to Macquarie Fields.
Nothing is real and nothing to get hung about.
Macquarie Fields forever.

Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see.
It's getting hard to be someone but it all works out.
It doesn't matter much to me.

Let me take you down, 'cause I'm going to Macquarie Fields.
Nothing is real and nothing to get hung about.
Macquarie Fields forever.

No one I think is in my tree, I mean it must be high or low.
That is you can't you know tune in but it's all right.
That is I think it's not too bad.

Let me take you down, 'cause I'm going to Macquarie Fields.
Nothing is real and nothing to get hung about.
Macquarie Fields forever.

Always no sometimes think it's me, but you know I know when it's a dream.
I think I know I mean "Yes," but it's all wrong.
That is I think I disagree.

Let me take you down, 'cause I'm going to Macquarie Fields.
Nothing is real and nothing to get hung about.
Macquarie Fields forever.
Macquarie Fields forever.
Macquarie Fields forever.


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## disarray (4 September 2008)

jersey10 said:
			
		

> The True Blue Aussie Identity - what a load of bollocks. Why are some people so obsessed with maintaining this stereotype.
> 
> Can i have a description of who or what this is??




simply put its kind of like this -

equality of gender
freedom of religion
freedom of sexual orientation
freedom to elect your leaders
freedom to openly state your opinion
freedom of choice (within reasonable bounds)
freedom to live in peace, forge your own destiny, raise your kids etc. etc.

these are the basic tenets of western cultural belief and identity. you can go to any western country and be guaranteed these freedoms regardless of your skin colour, beliefs or sex. lots of the world isn't like this (by lots i mean most), these basic freedoms we assume as our right are in fact only a recent development in our history, and were paid for with a LOT of blood, sweat and sacrifice by earlier generations.

so on this base we have national quirks of identity. so an "aussie" would firmly hold to all of the above ideals, as well as have some unique characteristics determined by their circumstances. these other characteristics are things like mateship (necessary in a hostile, settler environment), a healthy disrespect of authority (maybe convict origins), a streak of larrikanism etc. this is the "aussie character" people refer to.

an englishman would also hold all of the above ideals, as well as their own national quirks, like amazing patience, excessive politeness or other social behaviours people identify as "english". so the fundamental principles are the same and aussies and english can easily identify with each other, even when we flog them in the cricket.

now take a lebanese muslim. under islam and traditional lebanese culture men and women aren't equal. when i was in lebanon i witnessed first hand how the women prepared the food, served the men, then took everything away to eat the leftovers in the kitchen and clean up. freedom of religion is irrelevant because islamic teaching explicitly states that everyone has to convert, submit, or die. homosexuality is also punishable by death under islam and as we've recently seen, political power in that part of the world often stems from the barrel of a gun. a person who comes from this environment doesn't have the same cultural foundation that we do, and this has to be acknowledged and dealt with.

so anyway the convict / settler / digger / larrikan image was all well and good until 1950 and this forms the basis of anglo australian culture and identity. this is probably still relevant in large parts of australia which are still predominantly white, but not in the cities which are now filled with large numbers of people from all different racial and cultural backgrounds. so the image of the aussie has to adapt and move forward, hence the discussion.

now what new identity to come remains to be seen however the core beliefs outlined at the beginning of this post are not negotiable. when other cultures maintain practices that violate these beliefs (such as honour killings, female genital mutilation, discrimination with muslim-only days) then we must loudly and firmly claim that this sort of **** is not acceptable and the above principles must be adhered to or you can go elsewhere. it is a fair and reasonable expectation to make of new arrivals that they adhere to these beliefs, and if not, don't come.


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## pepperoni (4 September 2008)

disarray said:


> simply put its kind of like this -
> 
> equality of gender




and yet women earn 15% less - frankly I think overt discrimitation is more honorable than covert



disarray said:


> freedom of religion




Just dont build your mosque near me



disarray said:


> freedom of sexual orientation




but the home of poofter bashing and no gay marriage.


The holier than thou rhetoric is ridiculous - there is no way your typical first fleet descendant aussie is any better than anyone else in the world  - muslims included.


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## disarray (4 September 2008)

...


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## pepperoni (4 September 2008)

disarray said:


> ...




Disarray on his spaceship the AUS La La Land :


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## Spanning Tree (4 September 2008)

Australia has a skills shortage. One of my friends is a farmer and he constantly complains about Australians who demand high wages and then do just about nothing on the job. No wonder farmers want high immigration.

Immigrants who come here need to be clothed, fed, and housed, which boosts demand for good and services, thereby creating jobs in clothing manufacture, food preparation, construction, etc.

Just about all political parties agree that immigration is important for economic growth. High immigration was practiced by the Howard Government after fierce lobbying by business groups and the program has continued under the Rudd Government.

This whole idea of a true Australian identity is very vague. How do you define it? Why isn't a tall Sudanese man included in the Australian identity if his physical appearance more closely resembles an Aborginal than the physical appearance of most of the Australian population currently? 

Some people say that true Australians drive Holdens. So someone driving a BMW is not an Australian? This illustrates my point: that national identity is vague and until someone defines what we have to wear and what we have to buy to be an Australia, there can be no contructive conversation. And even if you do define this Australian identity, is there any pride in conforming to a stereotype?



> some cultures are dysfunctional are we sure as hell should NOT be importing more of these people into this country. theres millions of english speaking educated europeans who would love to settle in australia (and possibly flee parts of europe that are becoming unlivable due to immigration) we could open the doors too without worrying about cultural or religious baggage.



If we are to abandon freedom of religion and judge people based on a study of their religion, we might as well deport all religious people since just about all religions contain questionable practices. For example, the the New Testament of the Bible, it states that any man who looks at a woman and lusts for her must gouge out his eyes (Matthew 5:28-29). Imagine looking at a bikini-clad woman on a beach, lusting after her, and then having the police come to remove your eyes.



> crime statistics clearly point out that sudanese and lebanese migrants are hugely overrepresented as perpertrators of crime



This is irrelevant. The crimes of some in a group don't make everyone in that group a criminal. Even men commit more crime than women, but are you going to deport all men? Short people are more likely to be pedophiles than tall people, so are you doing to deport all short people?



> Mateship
> A fair go for all.
> Pull your weight.
> Respect for others and their point of view.
> ...



And you're certainly showing these values to the immigrants who come here.

If you claim one culture is superior to another, that's snobbery, and therefore un-Australian by your definition.




> equality of gender
> freedom of religion
> freedom of sexual orientation
> freedom to elect your leaders
> ...



Weren't you earlier bashing Muslims and therefore arguing against freedom of religion?


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## IFocus (4 September 2008)

pepperoni said:


> and yet women earn 15% less - frankly I think overt discrimitation is more honorable than covert




Consequences for discrimination against women in some cultures is that they die, cannot see the honorable bit.




> Just dont build your mosque near me




Ever hear the call to pray?




> but the home of poofter bashing and no gay marriage.
> 
> The holier than thou rhetoric is ridiculous - there is no way your typical first fleet descendant aussie is any better than anyone else in the world  - muslims included.




Though Disarray made a number of valid points particularly the issue of violence.

What every your views the ques of people wanting to get into western countries speaks for it self.


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## pepperoni (4 September 2008)

IFocus said:


> What every your views the ques of people wanting to get into western countries speaks for it self.




The reasons they want to get in are money and saftey related ... not because we are dont discriminate against sex, religion and sexuality (as we clearly do).

Australia IS the best country in the world IMO, but it would be alot better with the yobbos xenophobes and racists.


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## glenn_r (4 September 2008)

Every person here in Oz is an immigrant including the Aborigines , our rich culture is derived from the multi cultures immigrating here, you guys need to build a bridge and get over it.

But I also agree if you don't love Australia then bug ger off, I have travelled to quite a few countries, none of them ever measure up to Oz and I always get a good feeling inside when I can see the my beloved country from the air after being away.

A fifth generation Aussie's 2 cents.

http://music.videosift.com/video/Football-Meat-Pies-Kangaroos-and-Holden-Cars

GO CATS


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## sk8er (4 September 2008)

roland said:


> I understand that the birth rate amongst our muslim community is nearly triple that of the multi-generational Australians.




I say stop child support after 10 children. That would fix this imbalance.


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## Julia (4 September 2008)

nioka said:


> T There were no "aussies" until the poms sent their "best" out here to become the first real Aussies.



Did they?  I thought they sent their convicts out here, with the exception of South Australia, where the free settlers went, ditto New Zealand.   A critic could draw all sorts of implications from such a settlement of Australia.


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## Prospector (4 September 2008)

Julia said:


> Did they?  I thought they sent their convicts out here, with the exception of South Australia, where the free settlers went, ditto New Zealand



And mighty proud of that too, here in SA.  Our first settlers were European in origin, from Germany and the like.


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## Wysiwyg (4 September 2008)

glenn_r said:


> Every person here in Oz is an immigrant including the Aborigines ,




That is true of  ancestors.Rights to land due to being first here are recognised by the Australian government.Having said that i do reserve my right to travel anywhere I want in this relatively sane country.

It`s all about rights as a human that makes the difference and that is where  Australia has an improving record generally typing.


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## wayneL (4 September 2008)

Wysiwyg said:


> That is true of  ancestors.Rights to land due to being first here are recognised by the Australian government.Having said that i do reserve my right to travel anywhere I want in this relatively sane country.
> 
> It`s all about rights as a human that makes the difference and that is where  Australia has an improving record generally typing.



I tried to claim land rights here, being an ethnic Pom.

They said: Sure! Just hand over 250k, sign on the dotted line and it's yours.


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## jwrt (5 September 2008)

disarray said:


> people are utterly nieve about the true nature of islam. at least people have stopped with the "islam is the religion of peace" line because we've all picked up on the fact that this is bs, so now with a bit more research people can discover that islam isn't just a religion, it's a political doctrine, and mohammed wasn't some glorious prophet, he was a mass murdering paedophiliac narcissistic warlord with delusions of grandeur (pbuh).




Freedom of Religion hey Disarray?
You're a scumbag.
Can't you just wake up one morning, take one deep breath, and just not care anymore? All this worrying must be damaging your health, you probably look older than you really are.
Life is too short mate.
Wake up tomorrow, have a seafood laksa for breakfast, go for a swim at your local beach, run down to the butcher, buy some grass-fed, quality rib-eye, try and season with indigenous spices (if you can!), grill em' and wash them down with a beautiful red (your choice of region and variety!). 
What a wicked day! REPEAT FOR EVER!

peace


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## jwrt (5 September 2008)

pepperoni said:


> They are most common in areas like macquaries fields and have the same effect of property prices as mobile phone towers and high power lines.




Brilliant.


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## Spanning Tree (5 September 2008)

All this reminds me of a Muslim friend of mine. He came to Australia and when he came someone told him that he should fit in and convert to Christianity because most Australians are Christian. And so he did so. He started reading the Bible often and went to church. He was at the beach one time with some friends when he saw near-naked women in bikinis. He was offended by this. His friends said, "Don't worry about it. Women are free to wear as little as they want. It's part of Australian culture to enjoy women's bodies." The problem is that the Bible states that a man cannot lust. Therefore, he was faced with a dilemma because one person was saying that in order to be a true Australian you must be Christian and yet another person was saying that order to be a true Australian you must lust and therefore behave in an anti-Christian way. This is why it's essential that those who argue for conformity precisely define how an immigrant can conform to these so-called Australian values.

This Muslim person drove an Audi and so somebody suggested that he drive a Holden because Audi is German and not Australia. However, I argued that because currently the Toyota Corolla is the best-selling car then the Australian thing to do would be to buy a Corolla since fitting in is defined as following what most people do. The logical implication of this is that if you earn over $100,000 and you are NOT overweight, you're un-Australian since the average Australian earns $50,000 and is overweight. If an immigrant comes from Japan and is used to eating low-fat food and then all of a sudden you force the immigrant to conform to Australian norms and start eating food that is high in saturated fats and additives, then how is that helpful? If anything it will increase the burden on public health expenditure. 

Another hypocrisy I'd like to talk about is how some say that Australia is so great because of freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and so forth, yet when the Muslims come here they mock their religion (goes against their freedom of religion) and then mock their language, telling them to speak English instead (goes against freedom of speech). So are you for Western values or against it?



> But I also agree if you don't love Australia then bug ger off, I have travelled to quite a few countries, none of them ever measure up to Oz and I always get a good feeling inside when I can see the my beloved country from the air after being away.



I think the love-it-or-leave-it argument is un-democratic. If you don't love something, you should talk to your MP, vote against it, or start your own party. If you leave, the problem remains. Most One Nation supporters I talk to believe that if you don't love the country then you should leave. Then they criticize the Liberal/Labor party for sending in too many immigrants and whatever. If the One Nation supporters don't like it, why don't they follow their own principles and leave?




> people are utterly nieve about the true nature of islam. at least people have stopped with the "islam is the religion of peace" line because we've all picked up on the fact that this is bs, so now with a bit more research people can discover that islam isn't just a religion, it's a political doctrine, and mohammed wasn't some glorious prophet, he was a mass murdering paedophiliac narcissistic warlord with delusions of grandeur (pbuh).



What exactly you do want? Do you want government to ban Islam? Do you want government to ban all religions and or regulate religions (as they do in Communist China)?


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## Joe Blow (5 September 2008)

jwrt said:


> You're a scumbag.




Just a warning that this type of personal attack won't be tolerated at ASF.

If you disagree with someone's views, fine, but there is absolutely no reason for personal attacks or name calling. 

Play the ball, not the man (or woman). 

Just a friendly reminder.


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## Kauri (5 September 2008)

how long do you need to *simply* reside in aUSTRALIA to quaffify to be an aUssie??
 3 years..
...5 years..
 ....10 years...
..........40000 years???
de only raison  I haven't signed up to be one yet is that I would have to vote...
 ..... and I blankly refuse to vote for any politician... 
........... self serving sypholitic sycophants...
................."censored...."
........ mmm
Slainte
..............Kauri


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## Sean K (5 September 2008)

Kauri said:


> how long do you need to *simply* reside in aUSTRALIA to quaffify to be an aUssie??
> 3 years..
> ...5 years..
> ....10 years...
> ...



Technically, you just need citizenship don't you?

Aussie passport, and you're an Aussie.

That's why the Government wanted to bring in the Aussie Cultural Test to make sure you cut it.

Or, has it already been implimented?

Example questions:

Q1. Do you like vegemite?
Q2. Do you surf, or at least tried?
Q3. Do you like meat pies, kangaroos and Holden cars?
Q4. Do you know where the dog sits on the tuckerbox?
Q5. How much can a koala bear?
Q6. Are Sir Les Patterson and Dame Edna Everage brother and sister?
Q7. Who won the 84, 85, 93 and 2000 AFL Grandfinals? 
Q8. What brand of alcohol did Jimmy Barnes consume on stage?
Q9. Is XXXX a type of beer, or cats piss?
Q10. Are Phar Lap, Crowded House and Russel Crowe famous Australians?

etc


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## wayneL (5 September 2008)

kennas said:


> Example questions:
> 
> Q1. Do you like vegemite?
> Q2. Do you surf, or at least tried?
> ...


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## Investor123 (5 September 2008)

roland said:


> Every night I watch the news from around the world, and every day I cannot but feel so privaledged that I am born and bred an Aussie.
> 
> Sure, we have some problems .... trying to get along with our Aboriginal countrymen, some racial conflicts with our newest Australians, some security concerns with minority extremists, environmental issues with droughts, then floods....., but all in all we are so lucky.
> 
> ...




I heard that the tax rate for Australian is very high, about 50% if you include the insurance. That means you only take home half of your salary, is it true?


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## wayneL (5 September 2008)

Investor123 said:


> I heard that the tax rate for Australian is very high, about 50% if you include the insurance. That means you only take home half of your salary, is it true?




It's a bit hard to work out BREND.

Income tax is not that high, but there are hidden multi layers of taxation that I believe make the total tax take in excess of 50% of GDP.

I stand to be corrected on that, but that is what I read somewhere.


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## noirua (5 September 2008)

Each country seems to have different taxes and benefits.  Some might say that if you live in a cold country then you pay more tax and costs on heating etc.,
Petrol and Diesel in Europe is very expensive. About AUS$2.65 a litre for diesel. VAT in Europe on purchases is between 16% and 22%. 
Various forms of Annual Housing Taxes can cost between AUS$1,600 to AUS$3,000. Plus County and local council taxes.
UK tax on earnings is 20% and 40%, but NI is around 10% or 11% extra. 
Old age pensions vary throughout Europe.
Taxation in America and Canada seems lower. By the time you pay extra because retirement pensions are lower and pay loads for health insurance. Then it suddenly looks a worse deal

In parts of Europe its colder in the Summer, than it is in winter for most of Australia. 

This adds more to the comment by wayneL, "It's a bit hard to work out BREND".


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## Santob (5 September 2008)

So far from this thread, I gather that the only thing that defines being Australian is:
- not knowing what being Australian actually means?


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## CoffeeKing (5 September 2008)

Why would this guy being interviewed by Moonface, stay for 10 years and still not like OZ?

..............

because...

..............

Don't you just love it

..............


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## xyzedarteerf (5 September 2008)

Santob said:


> So far from this thread, I gather that the only thing that defines being Australian is:
> - not knowing what being Australian actually means?




"touche"


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## IFocus (5 September 2008)

Julia said:


> Did they?  I thought they sent their convicts out here, with the exception of South Australia, where the free settlers went, ditto New Zealand.   A critic could draw all sorts of implications from such a settlement of Australia.





I guess bragging about your ancestors being convicts and proud of the fact may well be uniquely Australian.


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## IFocus (5 September 2008)

Kauri said:


> how long do you need to *simply* reside in aUSTRALIA to quaffify to be an aUssie??
> 3 years..
> ...5 years..
> ....10 years...
> ...




Any resident of Mandurah that can put up with the mossies automatically qualify


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## Wysiwyg (5 September 2008)

wayneL said:


> I tried to claim land rights here, being an ethnic Pom.
> 
> They said: Sure! Just hand over 250k, sign on the dotted line and it's yours.




Good laugh there Wayne.I can`t say I have received any freebies during my existance either.That piece of scrub near the river is now worth millions of dollars and probably bought/sold/taxed countless times.


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## Investor123 (7 September 2008)

wayneL said:


> It's a bit hard to work out BREND.
> 
> Income tax is not that high, but there are hidden multi layers of taxation that I believe make the total tax take in excess of 50% of GDP.
> 
> I stand to be corrected on that, but that is what I read somewhere.




Thanks for replying. So how much is the income tax for an average person? 40%?

Franking speaking, how do you all guys cope with mortgages? The interest rate is SO HIGH now. 

If I am an Australian, I wouldnt want to invest in anything, I will just park all my money in the bank. Good for depositers but bad for borrowers.


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## Green08 (7 June 2009)

Yes, despite Krudd and Co (who I didn't vote for).  I love Australia!!!!

Despite our challenges and knock of head ideas - which is very stimulating - I wouldn't live anywhere else.  

Any country can be a pain to live in but it is more than tax rarara. We have a great landscape, fascinating mixed culture, can do attitude and much much more.


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## Trevor_S (7 June 2009)

What ? I can't resonate with the OP at all.  I must admit I have no idea what he is talking about.


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## Smurf1976 (7 June 2009)

jersey10 said:


> Ask people overseas who have never been to Australia and they think there are no banks in Australia, kangaroos are jumping up and down the road all day and if you go swimming at the beach you will get eaten by a shark.



I can understand someone getting the impression about kangaroos and sharks at the beach from films etc. But no banks? How are people getting that impression? It's certainly never occurred to me that any country wouldn't have banks - they're pretty much everywhere, at least that's what I've always understood.


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## Mr J (7 June 2009)

roland said:


> How long before we lose our typical True Blue Aussie identity?




The sooner the better. 

Good posts by Wayne and Trembling Hand. What is "Australian" these days, and how exactly is it unique? That "true blue, fair go, pull ya weight mate, she'll be right" is rubbish in my opinion. These real "aussie" types often also seem more likely to be ignorant, racist, xenophobic, unproductive and great whiners.


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## jersey10 (8 June 2009)

Mr J said:


> The sooner the better.
> 
> Good posts by Wayne and Trembling Hand. What is "Australian" these days, and how exactly is it unique? That "true blue, fair go, pull ya weight mate, she'll be right" is rubbish in my opinion. These real "aussie" types often also seem more likely to be ignorant, racist, xenophobic, unproductive and great whiners.




Totally agree.  Perpetuating this myth seems to make many people feel more comfortable about themselves and as a result the myth continues....


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## Green08 (8 June 2009)

Mr J said:


> The sooner the better.
> 
> Good posts by Wayne and Trembling Hand. What is "Australian" these days, and how exactly is it unique? That "true blue, fair go, pull ya weight mate, she'll be right" is rubbish in my opinion. These real "aussie" types often also seem more likely to be ignorant, racist, xenophobic, unproductive and great whiners.




You had to be born someplace in the world. I was born here and love my country. Is that a problem? Lumping people with characterists you mention just because they were born here is naive.

Where were you born?


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