# Apple Macs as a trading tool?



## Beenjammin (5 March 2009)

Hiya,

Im thinking about going Mac.

Anyone trade full time using them?
Any comments/ suggestions?

THanks!


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## Beenjammin (6 March 2009)

Particularly thinking about multi screen setups.....but any othe comments re software compatibility (im on WebIRESS via Comec at the moment) or traps for the uninitiated would be very welcom.

Thanks!


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## Happy (6 March 2009)

Last year when I bumped into Mac Rep at Domayne's Mac Section I was told that Mac can have platform installed that translates everything to PC system.
(It would require purchase of something that would do that, as normal Mac does not have it included)

Effectively I could have Mac operate as PC, only drawback that Mac would be bit slower as anything it does it would go Mac-PC-Mac to get result.

This might not be correct as I have no Mac, but this is what I think rep was trying to say.
If this is true, no matter what happens you can always use it as PC


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## acedrum (6 March 2009)

You could use a web based trading platform using Safari or Firefox in Mac OS X.

There is a charting application called Trade Strategist available for os x.

All Intel Macs can run Windows as a separate operating system or a virtual operating system can be setup with Parallels. I haven't used parallels but have my main system setup with os x and windows. Windows runs just as well, if not better than on any PC.


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## acedrum (6 March 2009)

Happy said:


> (It would require purchase of something that would do that, as normal Mac does not have it included)




You only need a copy of windows and a free download of bootstrapper from apple to install windows as a completely separate operating system that can be selected when booting up.

If you wanted to setup windows as a virtual machine you would have to buy Parallels and it would probably not run as well as the above option.


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## ojm (6 March 2009)

You can run it as a virtual machine. You can have Windows apps running along side your Mac apps pretty much.

My mates Macbook Pro with 4GB RAM ran Windows CAD software fine. And CAD is pretty resource heavy.


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## cutz (6 March 2009)

Hi

Yeah I use an iMac with a second monitor plugged in to run IB TWS which is my primary platform and it works a treat.

Webiress works but it’s a tad glitchy, for instance I can’t modify the columns in the quote windows. Resizing panels and launching new panels from the menu bar is sometimes problematic everything else in webiress works fine, I pretty much set up iress  how I wanted it via my PC and now I don’t really play with it’s settings so those glitches don’t bother me too much.

IMO if you’re  only intending on running webiress stick with a PC as iress doesn’t support Macs, also why would you bother running a windows emulator on your Mac, it defeats its purpose.


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## 1080p (6 March 2009)

I have an account with Oanda (browser based) and use a macbook with dual monitors to trade.

Unfortunately I also need a PC to trade my other accounts though.  

Be warned - once you go mac you'll never go back


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## togs (7 March 2009)

Apple snuck this in, as far I can see. The recent upgrade to the Mac Mini has, among other things, now given this pint-sized powerhouse the abillity to drive two screens, through the mini-DVI and the newer DisplayPort.

apple.com/macmini/specs.html


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## cutz (7 March 2009)

Yeah it’s a nice little package, 

I wish the dual display was available when I purchased my new desktop, initially I looked at the mini but due to its ability to handle only one screen I ended with an iMac, the two different monitors bugged me a little at first (due to the fact I’m a bit of a desk neat freak) but I quickly got over it.   

The new mini with couple of 22 inch displays would  be attractive setup.


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## Beenjammin (7 March 2009)

Thanks everyone!

Cutz, (Marcus, I assume?) thanks for the heads up about the glitchy IRESS performance. Are you using Firefox to browse? I noticed I cant run IRESS at all using Google Chrome, so it may be MS Explorer only that can run it fully. I ditched Firefox from my PC a while back so can't test it out. My point being it may be the browser host rather than the Mac hardware. Still, it doesn't sound major.

Thanks also 1080p Mr Smiley Banana. WHen you say you need a PC to trade your other accounts through, can you expand on this a bit pls? Are you using desktop software that wont run properly under windows emulation on the Mac, or is it a browser issue, or you just dont have windows soiling your hard drive? BTW Ive played with Oanda (just the demo to see how I go at Forex trading) and wow it's a great system - I'd love some of its capabilities for trading options. What browser are you on with your Mac?

If I go this route itll definitley be a new Mac (prolly Mini, seems best bang for buck) with an Intel inside (thanks Happy, Acedrum, ojm and togs), so I can run windows in case of emergency. The main reasons in my mind are the reliability, the ease of use, the fact it just feels so much better using a Mac compared to a PC (I could use a crude similie but will restrain myself) and fact most viruses (sorry, virii) are written for PC's.


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## cutz (7 March 2009)

Beenjammin said:


> Cutz, (Marcus, I assume?)




Sorry Beenjammin you have the wrong bloke, i'm not Marcus.

The glitches i was describing with webiress i actually experience on my Mac.

As i was saying i set up iress on my PC initially which uses IE, i drive it via my Mac which uses safari.

Cheers,

Cutz.


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## togs (7 March 2009)

Since you can run a full Windows install virtualised on OS X, there will not be any applications that you won't be able to run (barring specific hardware requirements or other gotchas like that), it's a matter of performance. I wouldn't expect 3D games under virtual Windows to be that great, for example. Unless trading software is very glitzy, generally I don't think it will be a problem, but try to test it first if possible.

To be fair to both platforms, there are viruses for Macs, perhaps less than twenty (don't quote that, DYOR ). However, the BSD UNIX architechture underneath (OS X is based on FreeBSD, which itself is based on AT&T UNIX, so we're talking software that's been around for about 30-40 years now) usually causes a virus to be run because the user chose to run it.

Browser wise, I use Safari, Firefox and Opera - Opera is my preferred tool, and still one of the best on any platform.

If you buy a new Mini, my advice would be to go with the 120GB model, max the RAM and choose the faster processor. The price they are asking for extra hard disk space is not worth it - I think my external 700GB drive cost about the same as the 320GB upgrade.

Presently considering buying the new model for dual screen capability!

Cheers,
togs


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## Timmy (7 March 2009)

OK, probably a stupid question and probably will incite more conflict than the Gaza Strip, but here goes …  Beenjammin, it appears from the OP you don’t currently have a Mac but want to buy one and use it for trading.  And it sounds like you are going to have to go to a lot of trouble to do so.  Why not join (or stay with) the herd and use a PC?


(Please note, I admit I probably don’t ‘get it’; and, Yes, I am much more like the fat PC guy than the cool Mac guy…).  
Flame away …




ps.  If you want software for trading on a Mac I recommend Investor R/T, which I understand was originally developed for Macs and which I find to be absolutely outstanding.


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## Beenjammin (7 March 2009)

Thanx again Cuts and Togs.

Timbo, to answer your question,  bascially its getting close to time to replace my computer, and Im taking the opportunity to investigate the land of Mac. Have not come to a decision as yet but Im happy to share my thoughts to date. My scorecard looks as follows:

*FOR PC:*

Price
Ubiquity
Range of programs - including freeware, open source and proprietary
Range & price of peripherals
Breadth of support options
Familiarity (Ive used a PC nearly every day since DOS days)

*FOR MAC*

Ease of use - much more intuitive, fewer gotchas
Lack of OS based bugs compared to windows
Lack of Viruses
Interoperability with other Apple products - I-pod, I-phone - anything with an apple logo on it will work as promised, no questions
Graphics and sound quality beat the poo out of a PC (Im into photography and music so a plus for me)
You can run windows anyway if you really want to
Cool factor (I know it soulds like a w@nk but Id be lying if I said I wasnt considering this as a factor)
Supporting true innovators - Apple comes up with truly great ideas (They had a great GUI before Windows came along, MS "borrowed" the concept from them) and Id like prefer my cash went to a company that will continue to drive innovation so they thrive and we continue to benefit.

*AGAINST PC*

Viruses requiring constant $$$ for protective software that is never 100%
Buggy OS
Buggy Programs
Compatibility risk - adding new hardware or programs can often really negatively impact the performance of your PC without any rhyme or reason as to why, and all the vendors blame each other ("It couldn't possibly be our product! Blame Bill Gates!") Bill meanwhile blames the vendors right back, or simply states "itll be addressed in the next upgrade" . From my Mac contacts, this doesnt seem to happen, their Macs chug along as always.
Good quality sound and video cards cost extra anyway, generally narrowing the proce gap between Macs and PCs.
Herd factor - I'm contrarian in a lot of aspects

*AGAINST MAC*

Price (BUT see comment on high end PC video and sound cards above, plus the paragraph below)
Fewer support options - on line and real world (eg I can't call up a mates son doing IT at Uni and ask him advice on some obscure hardware or software issue, and a lot of suburban computer store staff have high nerd factor ratings on PC's but low for Mac. However from what I understand this kind of thing is not generally an issue as Macs apparently "just work right")
Some programs arent available for MAC under their native OS (dunno how well Windows would run, gotta test it out )
Dont personally know anyone trading using a Mac so am unaware of potential pitfalls - the old "unknown unknowns"
Im going to definitley be using at least two screens, but if I go Mac MinI dont know if ill be able to ramp up to four if I feel the need (which Im sure I will one day - obvious workaround is to pay the extrra and get an iMac so I can add an extra video card if neccessary).

Just on price, I read that in the US at least Apple has dropped price across the full range of its computer products....we'll have to see if price drops are matched in Australia or if the local distributors keep hanging onto high price as a differentiator (not bright in this environment).

Thanks for the SW recommendation, Ill check out their website. Gotta say though Ill mainly be using WebIRESS unless there is something super-dooper in there.


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## cutz (8 March 2009)

Beenjammin said:


> Thanks for the SW recommendation, Ill check out their website. Gotta say though Ill mainly be using WebIRESS unless there is something super-dooper in there.






Beenjammin said:


> Im going to definitley be using at least two screens, but if I go Mac MinI dont know if ill be able to ramp up to four if I feel the need (which Im sure I will one day - obvious workaround is to pay the extrra and get an iMac so I can add an extra video card if neccessary).




Hi Beenjammin,

I don't think a video upgrade on the iMac is a straightforward process, from what limited knowledge i have, Mac Pro is the system that allows for a quad video output.

With regard to webiress make sure you have a play on a Mac so you are well aware of the glitches before hand, i did this in my local shop using the demo commseciress which was available on the website ( i wasn't comfortable logging on to my account on a shop computer, i also tried the demo TWS while i was in there.)


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## 1080p (8 March 2009)

Beenjammin said:


> Thanks everyone!
> 
> Thanks also 1080p Mr Smiley Banana. WHen you say you need a PC to trade your other accounts through, can you expand on this a bit pls? Are you using desktop software that wont run properly under windows emulation on the Mac, or is it a browser issue, or you just dont have windows soiling your hard drive? BTW Ive played with Oanda (just the demo to see how I go at Forex trading) and wow it's a great system - I'd love some of its capabilities for trading options. What browser are you on with your Mac?




Yeah there's not many options for software platforms for mac which is why I still need a PC.  I could install XP and use with bootcamp or parallels but its cheaper just to hold on to my old laptop which I use exclusively for trading.

Although I do use Oanda I wouldn't really recommend it unless you're scalping.  Every once in a while you'll get some massive unexplained price spikes which probably stop a lot of people out....


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## biggles (8 March 2009)

I have a Mac and an old PC for my charting.I couldn't find a  charting program that I liked that would run on the Mac
Web Iress is glitchy on my Mac too. I run it from the PC. 
IG markets stuff runs well though.
 Depends whose platforms you will want to run I suppose. Some do some don't.
My Mac has turned into a huge IPod and photo album. I have to kick the kids off it all the time. 
Its a lot more trouble free than the PC, I don't need to run programs to clean it up but its annoying that not all trading platforms aren't compatible


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## Beenjammin (8 March 2009)

cutz said:


> Hi Beenjammin,
> 
> I don't think a video upgrade on the iMac is a straightforward process, from what limited knowledge i have, Mac Pro is the system that allows for a quad video output.
> 
> With regard to webiress make sure you have a play on a Mac so you are well aware of the glitches before hand, i did this in my local shop using the demo commseciress which was available on the website ( i wasn't comfortable logging on to my account on a shop computer, i also tried the demo TWS while i was in there.)




Thanks Cutz, the MacPro is certainly the high end option which I can see someone like George Lucas using for CGI on the next StarWars trilogy (2 x 3.2Ghz Quad Core processors and up to 32GB memory! Holy ****!) but definitley overkill for me at this point (sadly). Im thinking MacMini to start and if all goes well and I really need more than 2 screens I'll be in the right position to judge if going after a MacPro is worth the money.

After much navel gazing, Ive decided Im trying to establish if a Mac will be more reliable than a PC and thus avoid downtime at a critical moment (ie a risk mitigation strategy).

Ill try to get to the Mac shop and load up WebIRESS to see how it goes on Safari.



1080p said:


> Every once in a while you'll get some massive unexplained price spikes which probably stop a lot of people out....




I noticed some of these......are they specific to Oanda or are they actually happening in the market?


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## togs (8 March 2009)

In my experience a Mac platform generally requires less maintenance when compared to a Windows platform (maintaining systems is my job). Switching to Mac actually freed up personal time for me.


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## Beenjammin (9 March 2009)

OK popped into the Mac shop yesterday and sat down at a shiny new iMac - couldnt get onto he Comsec WebIRESS demo (couldnt find a link - im not in Australia at the moment so they may not make it available if you dont have an Aussie IP address) but found another on line broker offering a demo of it. Slightly different menu options to Comsec, eg no options, however most of it was similar.

No glitches, all the basics seem to work as normal (however obviously I couldnt execute a trade) the only two  things I noticed were:

1. Clicking on a hyperlinked headline in the News window did not spawn a window with the relevant document
2. One window failed to obtain data and the command "right click" was displayed.....can't do this on a Mac, no right mouse button. However Im sure there is a basic work around for what mst be a longstanding issue.

So all seems good as far as WebIress goes at present.

Good feedback on the Mac freeing up time, togs. Thanks again!


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## cutz (9 March 2009)

Beenjammin said:


> OK popped into the Mac shop yesterday and sat down at a shiny new iMac - couldnt get onto he Comsec WebIRESS demo (couldnt find a link - im not in Australia at the moment so they may not make it available if you dont have an Aussie IP address) but found another on line broker offering a demo of it. Slightly different menu options to Comsec, eg no options, however most of it was similar.
> 
> No glitches, all the basics seem to work as normal (however obviously I couldnt execute a trade) the only two  things I noticed were:
> 
> ...




Hello again,

In actual fact there is a right click button, it just doesn't look like there is. Iress just doesn’t work the way it should on safari, one example I’ll give you is right click on the stock quote>>create sell order>>new window >>damn, new window doesn’t launch,  so I need to select top left frame (example) to create the order. This is one of its many glitches and some of those glitches appear/disappear.

I punch most of my options orders through IB’s platform which works beautifully and I use iress mainly as a source of information executing enough trades to keep it available, so I’m mainly dragging quotes from the option monitor and dropping into depth for example to see who’s on or I’ll drag and drop a quote from the watchlist into a chart, iress intraday charts are really nice along with options analytics.

I’m not trying to put you off Mac as I use one and love it but be aware if you are intending to use iress as your primary platform you may be better off with a PC. If you will eventually use a platform that supports Mac go for it.

Sorry about leading you up the garden path with the iress demo link on commsec, when I checked it out it was around about the time they where looking at attracting Option Express clients, since then the link must have been removed.


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## Beenjammin (9 March 2009)

Thanks for the additional material - I guess the way I navigate around it dint elicit the glitches in question.

Not sure when they removed the link to the demo site, however I had it favourited on my home machine so if anyone wants it here it is:

http://webpromos.com.au/commsec/CommSecIRESS/


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## togs (9 March 2009)

The Apple Mighy Mouse senses which side your finger is on when you click. So it realy only works if you use one finger and swap it. Added to that, I personally think they're slower than other mice.

My advice? Buy a good third party one - Microsoft (ironically) or Logitech. If you like trackballs, get a Kensington Expert Mouse.


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## sammy84 (9 March 2009)

I use a macbook(the cheapest entry model) with another monitor attached. I have upgraded my memory to 4g. 

To trade the predominant programs I use are amibroker and comsec's iress. Both need to be run on windows for optimal use. Therefore when I am trading I use parallels on the external monitor and have all windows programs opened on it. Parallels is amazing, and if you dont want to fork out the extra money for it there are many torrents for it (Not advocating this as its illegal). 

I switched over to a mac at the end of last year and will never go back! It would be a tough choice if I was forced to pick between my girlfriend and a mac


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## cutz (9 March 2009)

togs said:


> The Apple Mighy Mouse senses which side your finger is on when you click. So it realy only works if you use one finger and swap it. Added to that, I personally think they're slower than other mice.
> 
> My advice? Buy a good third party one - Microsoft (ironically) or Logitech. If you like trackballs, get a Kensington Expert Mouse.




I have to disagree with you there togs, my mighty mouse definitely has a left and right click (primary/secondary buttons), I think there was an enhancement a few years ago, I even confirmed it with the guys at the shop before I purchased as left click right click function is crucial with most platforms.


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## togs (10 March 2009)

cutz said:


> I have to disagree with you there togs, my mighty mouse definitely has a left and right click (primary/secondary buttons), I think there was an enhancement a few years ago, I even confirmed it with the guys at the shop before I purchased as left click right click function is crucial with most platforms.




You could well be right. Decided I didn't like them years ago, never looked at them since. 

Just had a look at Apple's page:



> *The Button That Wasn’t*
> 
> Alas the fate of the one-button mouse in today’s multibutton world. Who has time for intuitive, elegant design when there is so much clicking to do? Thanks to a smooth top shell with touch-sensitive technology beneath, Mighty Mouse allows you to right click without a right button. Capacitive sensors under Mighty Mouse’s seamless top shell detect where your fingers are and predict your clicking intentions, so you don’t need two buttons — just two fingers. Click on the left side to use Mighty Mouse in its simplest, single-button form. Click on the right to access contextual menus within applications and edit, copy, label or download from your mouse. It’s simple sleight of hand.




Maybe they've improved the touch stuff?


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## paulchow2k (13 March 2009)

Hey sammy,
I am now running a combination of Pulse/Comsec Iress in Bootcamp rather than Parallels. Im trading full time but im sure you will discover the trading bugs on 10.5.x as you trade with Parallels or VM Ware.

The list of errors are long and has cost me $$$ so I'm now on bootcamp when I have my macbook pro as a trading platform.

By the way, I day trade while you might position trade so you might not come across the bugs. Just keep your risk to a manageable size just in case.

Good luck...

regards

paul



sammy84 said:


> I use a macbook(the cheapest entry model) with another monitor attached. I have upgraded my memory to 4g.
> 
> To trade the predominant programs I use are amibroker and comsec's iress. Both need to be run on windows for optimal use. Therefore when I am trading I use parallels on the external monitor and have all windows programs opened on it. Parallels is amazing, and if you dont want to fork out the extra money for it there are many torrents for it (Not advocating this as its illegal).
> 
> I switched over to a mac at the end of last year and will never go back! It would be a tough choice if I was forced to pick between my girlfriend and a mac


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## paulchow2k (13 March 2009)

Cutz,
Safari and iress is just the tip of the iceberg. I'm a die hard mac fan but I've given up trading using Mac OS X. I'm running bootcamp during market hours instead. It's a lot safer than loosing a position as those die hard mac users will find out soon enough.

regards

Paul



cutz said:


> Hello again,
> 
> In actual fact there is a right click button, it just doesn't look like there is. Iress just doesn’t work the way it should on safari, one example I’ll give you is right click on the stock quote>>create sell order>>new window >>damn, new window doesn’t launch,  so I need to select top left frame (example) to create the order. This is one of its many glitches and some of those glitches appear/disappear.
> 
> ...


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## cutz (16 April 2009)

G'Day,

I have a query regarding TWS and Mac,

A fault has recently emerged with my mac, on attempted launch of TWS I get an Application error “Unable to launch the application” on the past couple of occasions a restart has fixed the problem, last time restart of browser only fixed this. Today nothing worked so I had to revert back to my PC.

Has anyone else experienced this problem and how did you resolve this?

Thanks in advance.


EDIT>>Ha Ha, looks like i will be eating my previous words.


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## cutz (16 April 2009)

cutz said:


> G'Day,
> 
> I have a query regarding TWS and Mac,
> 
> ...





Hello again,

I fixed the problem by clearing the Java Cache and reloading but if anyone has any info on why this occured in the first place and how to resolve the issue i would appreciate the feedback.


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## wicked (16 April 2009)

To activate the right click you need to go to system preferences/keyboard mouse and make sure it has primary and secondary buttons set. *The mighty mouse can be set to have 4 buttons!*



Beenjammin said:


> 2. One window failed to obtain data and the command "right click" was displayed.....can't do this on a Mac, *no right mouse button*. However Im sure there is a basic work around for what mst be a longstanding issue.




*What software is available for trading on the mac?* I use a iMac for everything and it works fine. I trade with commsec and Firefox without any hassles. But don't use their subscription tools.


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## togs (17 April 2009)

wicked said:


> *What software is available for trading on the mac?* I use a iMac for everything and it works fine. I trade with commsec and Firefox without any hassles. But don't use their subscription tools.




I couldn't find much I liked, so I'm having a go at writing my own. MIght release iti n the next ten years. :


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## psj02 (7 May 2009)

Hi there,
I converted to Macs a couple of years ago and haven't looked back. I assume you'll be using your machine for purposes other than trading, and for that Macs are a pleasure to use.

If you want to run Windows on your Mac the main choices are Bootcamp, Parallels and VMware Fusion. One thing no one's pointed out is with Bootcamp you have to choose when starting the machine which OS to use, so if you boot up with one and want to switch you have to restart the computer. I found this a PITA. I now have VMware and can toggle between Mac & Windows. Windows XP runs beautifully, I mainly use it for Insight Trader and other Windows only software such as Snagit & Outlook.  Some browser sites do tend to work better in Windows I've found (such as the Macquarie Prime trading platform). I'm signing up with IB and I've read their trading platform supports Macs.

It sounds like you really want to take the plunge into Macs. I say go for it, and if you have Parallels or VMware you get the best of both worlds.


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## jono1887 (8 May 2009)

Why would you want to use a Mac for trading? they are quite simply over priced and have poor compatibilty with alot of trading/charting software... why go through all this trouble?? stick with PC :


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