# Licence suspension for not voting!



## Macquack (26 July 2009)

Since when has failing to vote resulted in the suspension of your drivers licence?

I just received a drivers licence suspension notice demanding payment of $145  directed by the State Debt Recovery Office. No details of the offence on the letter. Turns out I failed to vote at the last state election (NSW).

So if you dont vote you lose your drivers licence. 

Think its time to get off the electoral role?


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## Krusty the Klown (26 July 2009)

Macquack said:


> Think its time to get off the electoral role?




I don't think you can, can you?


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## Macquack (26 July 2009)

Krusty the Klown said:


> I don't think you can, can you?




If I move to the Phillippines (like Glen48), I should be right. Also, I wont have to have my vehicles inspected every 12 months under the misguided pretence of "safety" (none of the other States thinks it is necessary).


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## trainspotter (26 July 2009)

http://www.sdro.nsw.gov.au ... apparently they can Macquack !


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## prawn_86 (26 July 2009)

Just move houses and 'forget' to update your electoral role details.

Compulsary voting is a pet hate of mine.


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## overit (26 July 2009)

WOW... I had to check this out myself. Unbelievable. Add this to them wanting to put a GPS in you car you are buggered. NSW seems to be at war with the motorist or anyone who has a spare buck in their pocket.

Check out all the nasties they can bang you for if you fail to pay!


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## Krusty the Klown (26 July 2009)

prawn_86 said:


> Just move houses and 'forget' to update your electoral role details.
> 
> Compulsary voting is a pet hate of mine.




Cannot agree more strongly.

What if you don't like ANY of the candidates on the ballot?


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## knocker (26 July 2009)

overit said:


> WOW... I had to check this out myself. Unbelievable. Add this to them wanting to put a GPS in you car you are buggered. NSW seems to be at war with the motorist or anyone who has a spare buck in their pocket.
> 
> Check out all the nasties they can bang you for if you fail to pay!




Absolute nazis. See what happens when you have a labor controlled country.:


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## prawn_86 (26 July 2009)

Krusty the Klown said:


> Cannot agree more strongly.
> 
> What if you don't like ANY of the candidates on the ballot?




Donkey vote for me, go in and cross my name off and then dont submit any paper


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## knocker (26 July 2009)

overit said:


> WOW... I had to check this out myself. Unbelievable. Add this to them wanting to put a GPS in you car you are buggered. NSW seems to be at war with the motorist or anyone who has a spare buck in their pocket.
> 
> Check out all the nasties they can bang you for if you fail to pay!




Well at leaqst in the Uk, there are no booze buses and generally you can do 80 mph on the motorways un hindered. Most people do 100mph in certain places.

Australia is becoming a dictatorship under Krudd and his merry cohorts.


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## knocker (26 July 2009)

prawn_86 said:


> Donkey vote for me, go in and cross my name off and then dont submit any paper




I told them I left the country. will never re enrol, too much ****. Besides have dual citizenship.


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## beerwm (26 July 2009)

Krusty the Klown said:


> What if you don't like ANY of the candidates on the ballot?




you can always donkey vote;
-Even if it wasnt compulsory alot of idiots would still vote, and alot of those who are well informed wouldn't. 
eg. -GW Bush.

i'd like a section that says - 'I choose not to elect anyone'

I think people feel forced to make a decision after travelling to a booth...
... but ofcourse an uninformed opinion is worth ****-all.


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## integrity (26 July 2009)

This is not legal advice, just a story of what I found when I went looking.

It appears the claim is that the state recovery office can cancel a licence and they claim the authority is allowed under the Fines Act 1996. 

Part of the fines act appears to say a licence cancellation enforcement for a fine recovery can not be made if the offence is not a traffic offence.

Like I said, not legal advice. And of course I could be completely off-track.


FINES ACT 1996 - SECT 65
When enforcement action taken under this Division
65 When enforcement action taken under this Division 
(3) Despite subsections (1) and (2),* enforcement action with respect to a fine defaulter’s driver licence is not to be taken* under this Division *if*:

    (a) the offence:

        (i) in respect of which the fine concerned was imposed on the fine defaulter by a court, or 

        (ii) in respect of which the penalty notice from which the fine concerned arises was served on the fine defaulter, 

    occurred while the fine defaulter was under the age of 18 years, and 

    (b) *the offence is not a traffic offence*.


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## awg (26 July 2009)

I am shocked at the mind numbing stupidity of this.

Will cause an upsurge in unlicenced young drivers.

My son just turned 18, and I strongly advised him not to enrol.

being the well-educated young man he is, of course he ignored my opinion.

I said, well then politic boy, you pay the fine for every half-assed local, state, federal, not to mention by-election you forget...and your vote doesnt matter in our seat, as it has always been held by Labor.

I should have made myself more clear to him

Its not easy to get off, and they enforce the fines

http://www.aec.gov.au/FAQs/Electoral_Roll.htm

I know someone that got off, cause they were an airline stewardess and OS so often, always missing them, years back tho, doesnt seem like you can do that now.

You MIGHT be able to get out of the local and state ones by changing your electoral role addy to somewhere that doesnt fine you, in another State like perhaps Coober Pedy perhaps, then never changing it back.

Hide in a cupboard when the Census people come

Big Brother may still get you though, if the Electoral Commision ever commence Data Matching.

You are an official State Criminal Macquack, dont forget it!!

If you dont pay up, they might throw you into a remand cell with a 120kg Tongan, and you will call him Momma


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## Zaij (26 July 2009)

I like compulsory voting, I just don't like doing it myself.


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## trainspotter (26 July 2009)

LMAO @ awg. Is the 120kg Tongan called Bubba and does he OWN the top bunk?  Now come over here and suck Mummy's .... you get my drift. LOLOL

integrity is onto something here with his post. I would DEFINITELY explore this avenue of defence. It appears that one law is contradicting another.


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## integrity (26 July 2009)

except for the "and" just above the (b)

but depends on how you read it

or to be tested in court

PS. Not legal advice.


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## trainspotter (26 July 2009)

Thanks integrity. As I understand it you are not offering legal advice in any way, shape or form that could be misconstrued in a manner that does not denote an opinion that could be used against you for whatever reason moreover.


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## It's Snake Pliskin (26 July 2009)

Pay your non voting fines if you receive them. 

Donkey votes are mistakes. So I guess voting for your own party would be a donley vote.


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## Trevor_S (26 July 2009)

awg said:


> and your vote doesnt matter in our seat, as it has always been held by Labor.




Maybe if enough people of his age a) enrolled and b) thought about their vote, something could be done ?

1. I am glad I am enrolled to vote
2. Voting isn't compulsory, attendance at the both is 
3. In 25+ years of voting, I have never missed a federal, state of local election. 
4.  I haven't voted labor or coalition for 20+ years.  
5. Much as it pains the libertarian in me, I think the consequences of a system of non compulsory voting is a worse then cumpsory voting.


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## pilots (26 July 2009)

Voting is a joke. What happens if I go in to a voting booth and vote, I then go to ten more voting booths and vote at all of them, I could use my friends name, now what happens it the seat I vote in wins by five votes, they look up the records and see I have voted ten time, are they going to have to all vote again???????


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## marklar (26 July 2009)

Krusty the Klown said:


> What if you don't like ANY of the candidates on the ballot?



Then run yourself.  What right does anyone have to complain about the state of politics in this nation if they're not willing to do something about it themselves?

You could always vote informal, all the parties track the informal vote and do try to capture some of it.  It is a valid and legal option for anyone to take.



			
				awg said:
			
		

> My son just turned 18, and I strongly advised him not to enrol.



With the level and quality of data matching available to the government right now, this is an incredibly stupid thing to advise someone to do.  You don't know what repercussions that may have later in his life.

m.


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## bellenuit (26 July 2009)

awg said:


> My son just turned 18, and I strongly advised him not to enrol.
> 
> being the well-educated young man he is, of course he ignored my opinion.
> 
> I said, well then politic boy, you pay the fine for every half-assed local, state, federal, not to mention by-election you forget...and your vote doesnt matter in our seat, as it has always been held by Labor.




I don't know if not enrolling is a way of avoiding fines. 

A letter arrived a few days ago from the Australian Electoral Commission for a relative who is living overseas. At the bottom of the letter in large bold writing are the words:

"Enrolment and voting are compulsory"


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## awg (26 July 2009)

Trevor_S said:


> Maybe if enough people of his age a) enrolled and b) thought about their vote, something could be done ?
> 
> 1. I am glad I am enrolled to vote
> 2. Voting isn't compulsory, attendance at the both is
> ...





1) I am not glad
2) I consider my vote, fwiw
3) me either
4) I quite often vote non-major, but they are just as hopeless, look at pre-Nazi Germany
5) I agree

I just think it is wrong and bizzare to cancel the licence of, especially, young people, for forgetting to vote, the punishment does not fit the crime.

lots of young ones cant or wont pay the fine

just another revenue grab i suppose.

lad has already accrued 2 parking tickets, they will come out of his "trust fund" expense account


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## Julia (26 July 2009)

That's extraordinary.  I fail to see the connection between not voting and your driver's licence.

I'm not in favour of compulsory voting.  If the electorate were not so disenchanted with politicians (for absolutely valid reasons) there would be a decent turn out anyway.

All the years I was living in NZ (where there is no compulsory voting) there was a better than 80% turn out.

Compulsory voting forces people who don't have a clue who is even standing to choose a bunch of names on the ballot form.   Amazes me the number of people who accept the How to Vote forms handed out at polling booths.  I can't see how that's going to produce  a valid result.


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## prawn_86 (26 July 2009)

marklar said:


> With the level and quality of data matching available to the government right now, this is an incredibly stupid thing to advise someone to do.  You don't know what repercussions that may have later in his life.




It is not illegal to not enrol, however it is against the law to not vote once you are enrolled.



Julia said:


> Compulsory voting forces people who don't have a clue who is even standing to choose a bunch of names on the ballot form.  I can't see how that's going to produce  a valid result.




Exactly what the 2 parties which are the same want. People who dont care or know what they are doing will keep the same 2 parties in power.


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## knocker (26 July 2009)

bellenuit said:


> I don't know if not enrolling is a way of avoiding fines.
> 
> A letter arrived a few days ago from the Australian Electoral Commission for a relative who is living overseas. At the bottom of the letter in large bold writing are the words:
> 
> "Enrolment and voting are compulsory"




Did they bother to inform the aec that they had left the country? If not then they are obliged to vote whilst OS.


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## marklar (26 July 2009)

prawn_86 said:


> It is not illegal to not enrol



AEC says it is.


			
				AEC said:
			
		

> http://www.aec.gov.au/Voting/your_vote.htm
> In Australia, enrolling and voting is compulsory by law.




edit: found the Act:
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/cea1918233/s101.html


m.


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## knocker (26 July 2009)

marklar said:


> AEC says it is.
> 
> 
> edit: found the Act:
> ...




Indeed it is. In fact I had a neighbour who said he was aussie, with an English accent. The aec were always sending people to his house and he was always on the run.


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## Prospector (27 July 2009)

The AEC sent a letter a few years ago to my husband, asking him to nominate all of the adults in the house who should have been on the electoral roll. How can it be legal to send one person a letter requiring them to account for the actions of other adults! 

I think I chucked it in the bin on the basis that they had no right to make him answer (and possibly, how could he be expected to know) what the actions of other adults (ie me!) were.  I dont think it even asked him if he was correctly enrolled (guess that was assumed given he was sent the letter), just other adults.  And I didnt get the same letter!  Sexist!

And yeah, I usually read his 'generic business' mail and unless he has a secret mail box he doesnt get any other kind!:


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## Krusty the Klown (27 July 2009)

marklar said:


> Then run yourself.  What right does anyone have to complain about the state of politics in this nation if they're not willing to do something about it themselves?




I didn't say I was complaining about the state of politics, I said sometimes there is no one candidate that I think would do a good job. Particularly for local councils - just because someone has an opinion does not mean they have the nous to run a multi-million dollar cash-flow.

You can abstain from a vote in many bodies and councils, including the UN, but Australia is the only country where it is illegal to abstain.



> You could always vote informal, all the parties track the informal vote and do try to capture some of it.  It is a valid and legal option for anyone to take.




What exactly is voting informally again?


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## YELNATS (27 July 2009)

Krusty the Klown said:


> What exactly is voting informally again?




As I understand it, an informal vote is a voting paper that has been lodged in the ballot box, but won't be counted as it has not been completed correctly.

A donkey vote - eg. voting 1,2,3,4 down the paper- and entering a different consecutive number starting with "1", in each box is a formal vote.

Not placing a voting paper in a ballot box is not a vote at all - ie. neither formal nor informal.

I could be corrected on the above.


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## cuttlefish (27 July 2009)

My experience has been that if you don't vote they send you a letter and on it somewhere is a form where you can write down an explanation as to why you didn't vote.  I've found that if you have a reasonable excuse then that tends to be the end of the matter.  Another way to avoid queues is to postal vote or vote early because you're heading out of town prior to election day.

When online voting eventually comes along it will all be much easier.


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## GumbyLearner (27 July 2009)

pilots said:


> Voting is a joke. What happens if I go in to a voting booth and vote, I then go to ten more voting booths and vote at all of them, I could use my friends name, now what happens it the seat I vote in wins by five votes, they look up the records and see I have voted ten time, are they going to have to all vote again???????




That's the Queensland way there pilots.

Vote early and vote 15 times.

In the days of Joh Beam-Petersen they use to "dig up" dead votes. Find an old fudy-"dud"y to go and pretend he was the recently deceased John Citizen. 

I won't even mention the gerrymander. Where towns like Rockhampton were in the same electorate as a town as far away as Cloncurry.


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## awg (27 July 2009)

its facist savaging people with unfair punishments

The penalty used to be $20

they couldnt collect it economically, so that would be why they have resorted to this measure.

I am narrowly in favor of compulsory voting, for the reason that I dont like the heavy influence that well organised "minorities" can wield, such as fundamental Christians in the USA.

The real reason is the NSW govt is broke, they seem very incompetent, I am sure they will be unceremoniously voted out, and this is from a Labor supporter!

If they wanted to recover a $20 fine, then afaic, they should legislate to do so via Tax, or Centrelink, that would be fairer and safer...do you want a large number of unlicenced drivers?

btw, I used to work with Electoral Commission staff from time to time, they definitely had a high and mighty view of their bureaucratic function


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## Mr J (27 July 2009)

Of the times I haven't forgotten to vote, I've never experienced a queue of more than a few people.


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## Mickem (28 July 2009)

voting should be voluntary!


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## awg (28 July 2009)

Mickem said:


> voting should be voluntary!




It sort of is

All you are required to do is have your name marked of the roll

Then walk out

dont even need to line up or mark the ballot paper.

Note: This may not be the correct legal interpretation, but, for all practical purposes, I dont think they would know, or check, if you even insert the ballot paper in the box.

I have had my attitude poisoned by living almost my entire life in a Labor held electorate


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## Krusty the Klown (28 July 2009)

awg said:


> All you are required to do is have your name marked of the roll
> 
> Then walk out
> 
> dont even need to line up or mark the ballot paper.




If this is legal, then what is the point of even showing up at all? It does not achieve anything.

There must be some reason that the pollies want us to... (insert conspiracy theory here.....).


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## trainspotter (28 July 2009)

http://www.aec.gov.au/faqs/voting_australia.htm for the reasons as to why?


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## Gillie (28 July 2009)

***THIS IS NOT ADVICE****

Another way to get off the role would be to change your name, Section 98A of the Electoral act has the power to refuse any "inappropriate names" to the role.

98A  Refusal to include in the Roll inappropriate names
	(1)	This section applies to the inclusion in a Roll, or transfer to a Roll, of a person’s name under a provision of this Part.
	(2)	A Divisional Returning Officer or Australian Electoral Officer may refuse to include in a Roll, or transfer to a Roll, a person’s name if the Divisional Returning Officer or Australian Electoral Officer considers that the name:
	(a)	is fictitious, frivolous, offensive or obscene; or
	(b)	is not the name by which the person is usually known; or
	(c)	is not written in the alphabet used for the English language.

You can't even use the excuse that you were serving a custodial sentence:

109  Lists of convictions to be forwarded
	(1)	The Controller General of Prisons must, as soon as practicable after the beginning of each month, forward to the Australian Electoral Officer a list of:
	(a)	the names, addresses, occupations and sexes of all persons who:
	(i)	were convicted in the State; and
	(ii)	began serving a sentence of imprisonment for any offence; and
	(b)	the names, addresses, occupations and sexes of all persons who ceased to serve a sentence of imprisonment for any offence;
during the preceding month.

Apart from leaving the country, which they do follow up visits to your previous residential address, the only other way to have your self removed from the role is to have yourself declared incapable of voting due to mental illness or impairment.


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## Krusty the Klown (28 July 2009)

Gillie said:


> the only other way to have your self removed from the role is to have yourself declared incapable of voting due to mental illness.




That shouldn't be too hard to prove for myself!!!!!!:


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