# Suggestions For Improving Australia's Economy



## chops_a_must (16 July 2008)

Given Australia's dire economic circumstances, I thought it would be a good idea to have a discussion about how we could improve our economy.

Does anyone have any ideas?

I have laid out a detailed plan as to what I think would be best for Australia's economic future:






As you can see, this solves several complaints. Firstly, SA'ns could no longer complain about a shortage of water, and secondly, no one could complain about them.

I'm also at pains to see what benefit SA provides to Australia. The whine industry is certainly one of their main industries, although after this week its dominance is perhaps rivalled by Geelong. But apart from this, SA is clearly just a parasite, and this plan would provide a significant winfall into the future.

Any other opinions? Discuss?


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## Wysiwyg (16 July 2008)

Good to see you again Peter g`day Russel g`day Clarke.


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## Sean K (16 July 2008)

LOL 

Unfortunately, there's too much expensive **** in the ground in SA to wipe it off the map. 

And how dare you take Coonawarra out of the picture!! Best whine in the universe! 

And Coober Pedy!!! Now there's a gem!


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## chops_a_must (16 July 2008)

kennas said:


> And how dare you take Coonawarra out of the picture!! Best whine in the universe!



Coolabah >>>>>>>>>>>> Coonawarra


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## Gspot (16 July 2008)

Changing the way we govern the country (still in colonial times), and saving over *$30 billion* a year on wasted duplicity, would be a start.


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## Snakey (16 July 2008)

Classic stuff chops and as a former South Australian I can see where your coming from ...but I think that bridge should extend over Victoria as well.


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## chops_a_must (16 July 2008)

Gspot said:


> Changing the way we govern the country (still in colonial times), and saving over *$30 billion* a year on wasted duplicity, would be a start.



I've never heard South Australia referred to as duplicit before, but I guess it is true. (Where is a thumbs up smily when I need one?) After all, why do we need SA when we have New Zealand?


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## wayneL (16 July 2008)

I believe Australia must look forward.

What happens when everything is dug up and shipped overseas?


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## chops_a_must (16 July 2008)

Australia's future lies in boat pens and Marinas Wayne. 

Any self respecting Australian knows that.

Gold star.


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## Snakey (16 July 2008)

wayneL said:


> I believe Australia must look forward.
> 
> What happens when everything is dug up and shipped overseas?




No thats after global warming


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## Wysiwyg (16 July 2008)

Live within our means, borrow for a house and that`s it.Really don`t want to stuff up an abundant country with careless spending, excessive eating/wasted food, wasting water  and buying on credit.


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## Snakey (16 July 2008)

Wysiwyg said:


> Live within our means, borrow for a house and that`s it.



Gees what time is it in Nimbin?


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## wayneL (16 July 2008)

Wysiwyg said:


> Live within our means, borrow for a house and that`s it.Really don`t want to stuff up an abundant country with careless spending, excessive eating/wasted food, wasting water  and buying on credit.




Too late!!!:


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## Wysiwyg (16 July 2008)

Snakey said:


> Gees what time is it in Nimbin?




Snakey d.t., youse Goldy fellas got the high rent luxury apartments, ye aint foolin me.
Simplicity and tranquility please.


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## chops_a_must (16 July 2008)

Wysiwyg said:


> Snakey d.t., youse Goldy fellas got the high rent luxury apartments, ye aint foolin me.
> Simplicity and tranquility please.




Riddle me this: why do a lot of simpletons not lead the simple life; when non-simple people, most often lead the simple life?


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## Snakey (16 July 2008)

Wysiwyg said:


> Snakey d.t., youse Goldy fellas got the high rent luxury apartments, ye aint foolin me.
> Simplicity and tranquility for me.



Yeah your right Im jealous I used to have that great life before i move to the goldy on the big money chase  should of stayed on my remote property with my spring water and solar panals. I guess i could go back there one day.


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## Wysiwyg (16 July 2008)

chops_a_must said:


> Riddle me this: why do a lot of simpletons not lead the simple life; when non-simple people, most often lead the simple life?




I can`t tell the difference between a simpleton and a non-simple person.I simply live or live simply on my slowly dwindling trading finances.


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## tayser (16 July 2008)

Elephant stamp for you.

But what to do with QLD?  It is after all filled with the people that VIC and NSW didn't want....


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## Tysonboss1 (16 July 2008)

chops_a_must said:


> Riddle me this: why do a lot of simpletons not lead the simple life; when non-simple people, most often lead the simple life?




Because to feel less simple they have to spend big and live large.... Even if that means drowning in consumer debt and neglecting any long term savings plan.

We shouldn't be too hard on them though,... these are the peolpe that keep the profits churning through our businesses, The "universal consumers" .


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## gfresh (16 July 2008)

> But what to do with QLD? It is after all filled with the people that VIC and NSW didn't want....




Incorrect, it's for people who were smart enough to leave


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## nioka (16 July 2008)

Wysiwyg said:


> I can`t tell the difference between a simpleton and a non-simple person.Io




That is because most of the simpletons masquerade as Economists, polititions, experts, etc. The simple people are not really simple at all, they usually just mind their own business.


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## nioka (16 July 2008)

1. Build infrastructure such as railway upgrades, lots of dams with associated hydro, improved roads, port upgrades etc.

2. Encourage innovative industries to remain in Oz and develop the industry here rather than sell it cheaply overseas.

3. Stop selling our businesses to overseas interests.

4. Live within our means and decrease the current account deficit.


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## bassmanpete (16 July 2008)

> Build infrastructure such as railway upgrades, lots of dams with associated hydro




Talking about only Victoria, where would you build the dams to be able to guarantee filling them? Maroondah is only a third full and that only holds about one fiftieth of what the Thompson can. All you'll end up with is a load of dams less than half full & a stuffed environment. Not that it isn't getting stuffed already.

Rather than remove SA completely, dig a ditch from the sea to Lake Eyre (it's about 15 metres below sea level) and form a permanent lake/inland sea. The evaporation may well change the weather bringing more rain to SA. Much like the Aral Sea in the former Soviet Union used to before rampant irrigation destroyed it, and the rainfall.


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## pepperoni (16 July 2008)

Love the maps!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I had a frustrated idea today ... export tax the F*&^ out of resources and abolish income tax.

They are aussie property but they are benefiting a few giving the rest of us an inflation headache.

We will be asias answer to monaco. And dubai once we put a palm where SA used to be.


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## pepperoni (16 July 2008)

nioka said:


> 3. Stop selling our businesses to overseas interests.




Something like what they do in china and the middle east .... not sure whether there are any downsides to that though.


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## disarray (16 July 2008)

we need some vision and long term planning or we are going to end up being some pointless service industry tourist dump once the resources are all dug up. 

i'd like to see

- half of the desert filled with hemp
- the other half storing radioactive waste (charging an obscene amount of $$$)
- lots of nuclear plants in the northwest to support high energy processing of our raw materials (seriously we should be doing this in-house)
- support for the CSIRO to work on a space mirror, develop carbon nanotubes, finish the scramjet and exterminate the cane toad and the rabbit
- a metro for sydney and improved public transport for the other capitals
- a good broadband infrastructure
- an end (or curtailing) of cotton and rice production
- further settlement of the northwest if we want to maintain current immigration levels so we don't keep cramming everyone into sydney
- a shift in government thinking from growth to sustainability
- a shift in personal thinking away from being an overconsuming fatass to being more responsible about your lifestyle
- national service for all 18 year olds with the army employed in engineering, construction, conservation etc. projects (like the romans used to do)


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## nioka (16 July 2008)

bassmanpete said:


> Talking about only Victoria, where would you build the dams to be able to guarantee filling them? Maroondah is only a third full and that only holds about one fiftieth of what the Thompson can. All you'll end up with is a load of dams less than half full & a stuffed environment. Not that it isn't getting stuffed already.
> 
> Rather than remove SA completely, dig a ditch from the sea to Lake Eyre (it's about 15 metres below sea level) and form a permanent lake/inland sea. The evaporation may well change the weather bringing more rain to SA. Much like the Aral Sea in the former Soviet Union used to before rampant irrigation destroyed it, and the rainfall.




There will be room for some small dams east of the dividing range in Vic but the main areas for dams are in Tasmania and the east coast of Queensland and northern NSW. A lot of water, which is surplus to maintaining an enviromental flow, could be diverted to the murray river and the food bowl of western NSW and Vic.

I remember many years ago that there was a proposal to build the canal to fill inland Australia with an inland sea. I think it was another "Bradfield" plan. The problem is that it may end up a dead sea with evaporation building up very high salt levels.


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## white_goodman (16 July 2008)

change property taxation... allow for the best and richest homes in australia to be eligible for land tax and capital gains


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## bassmanpete (16 July 2008)

> A lot of water, which is surplus to maintaining an enviromental flow, could be diverted to the murray river and the food bowl of western NSW and Vic.




There was a lot of water fell on the upper reaches of the Murray-Darling last month but, from what I've read, most of it was diverted into private dams. Maybe something needs to be done about that before we start diverting rivers.

You're probably right about an inland sea becoming too salty.

Maybe we could set up a whole new city complete with manufacturing base in the north-west. Make it self enclosed & separate from the rest of Australia, populate it with refugees and only pay them what they would get in their own countries. After, say, 4 years they'd get automatic Australian citizenship and could move to anywhere they liked. Just a thought :hide:


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## chops_a_must (16 July 2008)

While we are all offering up serious suggestions, I thought I'd give another one of mine.

I remember giving a speech in school, about anyone over 65 being forcibly used for medical experiments. I think it would be a boon for our bio-tech industry. What do others think? That way an otherwise unprductive sector of the community is useful, and considering they spend most of their time in hospital, it should provide easy access to these people.


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## nioka (16 July 2008)

chops_a_must said:


> While we are all offering up serious suggestions, I thought I'd give another one of mine.
> 
> I remember giving a speech in school, about anyone over 65 being forcibly used for medical experiments. I think it would be a boon for our bio-tech industry. What do others think? That way an otherwise unprductive sector of the community is useful, and considering they spend most of their time in hospital, it should provide easy access to these people.




 A touch of Hitler's thinking there. Sounds like it was/is the inexperience of youth showing.


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## disarray (16 July 2008)

i think it might have been a joke nioka 

the question of what to do with all the old people is a good one and will have a huge impact on the future economy. if we were a more homogenous community then old people could be well employed in social programs, doing local charity stuff or teaching kids. it might work in smaller communities but not in the big cities because of all the different cultures and so on.

everyone knows the baby boomers don't have enough saved to retire, and the younger generations have no intention of paying for them, many are barely able to manage their own finances, so what is to be done?

many people would probably consider suicide, and as others object to mass immigration to support them, its probably time for a raging public debate about our values towards the elderly and death.


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## chops_a_must (16 July 2008)

nioka said:


> A touch of Hitler's thinking there. Sounds like it was/is the inexperience of youth showing.




Who's to say what is right and wrong when it comes to materials for making my lamp shades these days? Especially in this modern age of silicon chips and so on.


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## MRC & Co (16 July 2008)

chops_a_must said:


> While we are all offering up serious suggestions, I thought I'd give another one of mine.
> 
> I remember giving a speech in school, about anyone over 65 being forcibly used for medical experiments. I think it would be a boon for our bio-tech industry. What do others think? That way an otherwise unprductive sector of the community is useful, and considering they spend most of their time in hospital, it should provide easy access to these people.




ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, now that was funny!!!!!!!!!

Of course, a joke, but very witty!


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## nioka (16 July 2008)

disarray said:


> i think it might have been a joke nioka
> everyone knows the baby boomers don't have enough saved to retire, and the younger generations have no intention of paying for them, many are barely able to manage their own finances, so what is to be done?
> .




The movie "The Great Dictator" was a joke made about Hitler too but It didn't change history.

 The younger generation have no intention of paying for them!!!!!!!!!!!!!. The younger generation OWE them. 

 I've posted this before, it needs revisiting. The year I started full time work,1947, the government introduced a pay deduction that went into a fund to guarantee that EVERYONE would be able to draw a pension on retirement. A few years later a greedy government transferred the fund to consolidated revenue, maintained the deduction and included it with tax, saying at the time that the pension would be paid from general revenue. Another government decided to means test the pension. We were robbed. As it turns out only the ones who owned property that has increased in value are able to maintain a reasonable standard of living through old age.

The younger generation have employer paid super deductions, they should not be entitled to the same pension arrangements. If they can make the country as prosperous as has the generation before them they should retire in comfort. They will in turn be the older generation and be relying on the younger ones as did the older ones when I was young. CORRECT THAT. If their super is "stolen" by one way or another I hope they can rely on the younger ones for assistance.

As for oldies not pulling their weight, go and see who does the volunteer work at opp shops, hospitals, coastguard, soup kitchens, welfare centres etc. They keep working because they are a dammed lot more used to hard work than a lot of the young ones I see around today who can only think me me me.  

And so endeth todays soap box oration.


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## Sprinter79 (16 July 2008)

By the time we're 'ready for harvest' we're already a walking mineral deposit. Over our time, we've ingested/inhaled so much heavy metal, so much gold dust, so much asbestos, that it would make really savy business sense to start prospecting in our elderly. We know that most elderly women haven't had a shaft of any kind in them for years, so we can be sure that the resources they offer are untapped. 

We might also start to take our role in this seriously from a young age. Encourage our children to play in the local industrial areas, eat particular cake, lick batteries and stick unidentified things up their nose, all with the eye on the future. Gives a new meaning to the term "investing in our youth..."


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## subaru69 (16 July 2008)

nioka said:


> If their super is "stolen" by one way or another I hope they can rely on the younger ones for assistance




Is this a new 'Stolen Generation' I have to apologise for?:


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## subaru69 (16 July 2008)

Sprinter79 said:


> Encourage our children to play in the local industrial areas, eat particular cake, lick batteries and stick unidentified things up their nose, all with the eye on the future.




Homer's already leading the new generation by example.


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## numbercruncher (16 July 2008)

Launch lots of nationalistic policies and lead the way by Going Green !


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## Sprinter79 (16 July 2008)

Some people are taking this thread waaaaaaaaay too seriously :


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## nioka (16 July 2008)

subaru69 said:


> Is this a new 'Stolen Generation' I have to apologise for?:



 One to be wary of, lost or stolen super. How many people have thought they had a good super savings behind them with their fund investing in CNP, ABS, Opes and a few more like them. If they are now at retiring age they have little left but the pension. Remember that the savings made in their earlier years were on a wage of a few pounds a week. My first wage was 27 shillings and six pence for 44 hours over six days. I was married with 3 kids and only earning 16 pounds a week and paying 5 pounds 5 shillings a week rent. And I was one of those better off!!! Never heard the
words "redundancy pay"

  How safe is your super? Will government policy take it from you in the next few years? Will a war or a financial collapse interfere with it's progress?. I don't think you will expect an apology in those circumstances but you will no doubt be expecting sympathy and help.


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## nioka (16 July 2008)

Sprinter79 said:


> Some people are taking this thread waaaaaaaaay too seriously :




Because it is a very serious problem and needs serious discussion.


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## Sprinter79 (16 July 2008)

If you'd read the original post, you would have figured out very quickly that this thread is not the place for serious discussion.


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## Julia (16 July 2008)

chops_a_must said:


> W
> I remember giving a speech in school, about anyone over 65 being forcibly used for medical experiments. I think it would be a boon for our bio-tech industry. What do others think? That way an otherwise unprductive sector of the community is useful, and considering they spend most of their time in hospital, it should provide easy access to these people.



Ah, this one is easily solved.  Just legislate for voluntary euthanasia.
More than 80% of the population are in favour of it.   As we age, we can just go and sign up to be wiped out at our chosen age.   The government could even charge for it as they do for everything else.
I can even now see the advertising:

"Don't put up with old age.  Or the disapprobation of the younger generations.
Take our one step easy way out.  Only $100 per person.  Plus funeral costs."

See? So easy.


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## white_goodman (17 July 2008)

nioka said:


> The movie "The Great Dictator" was a joke made about Hitler too but It didn't change history.
> 
> The younger generation have no intention of paying for them!!!!!!!!!!!!!. The younger generation OWE them.
> 
> ...




its funny you say that because a lot of intellectuals seem to beleive the baby boomers have had a realtively easy run in comparison to what my current generation will have by supporting a high amount of elderly, let alone the living costs of today


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## chops_a_must (17 July 2008)

Sprinter79 said:


> By the time we're 'ready for harvest' we're already a walking mineral deposit. Over our time, we've ingested/inhaled so much heavy metal, so much gold dust, so much asbestos, that it would make really savy business sense to start prospecting in our elderly. We know that most elderly women haven't had a shaft of any kind in them for years, so we can be sure that the resources they offer are untapped.



What about "brown field" developments?


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## IFocus (17 July 2008)

MRC & Co said:


> ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, now that was funny!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Of course, a joke, but very witty!




No joke Chops is from WA


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## Julia (17 July 2008)

white_goodman said:


> its funny you say that because a lot of intellectuals seem to beleive the baby boomers have had a realtively easy run in comparison to what my current generation will have by supporting a high amount of elderly, let alone the living costs of today



Well now, I am completely confused.
One minute all baby boomers are rich and spoiled, therefore none of the younger generations will be supporting them because they have all greedily ripped off everyone else to secure their own financial security.

And now, the next minute, all baby boomers are going to be a burden on the younger generations , presumably because they have been indolent, indulgent and failed to provide for their own retirement.

Ah, how I do love generalisations.


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## chops_a_must (6 August 2008)

Another problem they have:


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## Smurf1976 (6 August 2008)

nioka said:


> 1. Build infrastructure such as railway upgrades, lots of dams with associated hydro, improved roads, port upgrades etc.
> 
> 2. Encourage innovative industries to remain in Oz and develop the industry here rather than sell it cheaply overseas.
> 
> ...



Agreed 100%.


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## Smurf1976 (6 August 2008)

bassmanpete said:


> Talking about only Victoria, where would you build the dams to be able to guarantee filling them? Maroondah is only a third full and that only holds about one fiftieth of what the Thompson can. All you'll end up with is a load of dams less than half full & a stuffed environment. Not that it isn't getting stuffed already.



Dams are built for two major reasons:

1. To divert water. For example, dam on river forms a lake from which water can be pumped, run through turbines etc. The actual volume stored in the lake can be tiny or it can be large - it doesn't matter (within reasonable limits - you do need some storage capacity to avoid spill when it rains heavily) when the point is to get the water in the first place.

2. To store water. In this case the dam can either be on a river, in which case it has a natural catchment, or it can be an offstream storage that is simply pumped into / out of with the water coming from somewhere else.

As for the environment, I think the "stuffed" argument is a pretty hard one to truthfully say in most situations. I've seen rather a lot of large dams and in general I'd argue that while they've certainly changed the environment, they haven't really "stuffed" it in the vast majority of cases.


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