# JHG - Janus Henderson Group



## roland (3 March 2010)

Seems like a new thread here.

A quick overview courtesy of Comsec:



> Henderson Group PLC (HGG) is a financial services group that sells a range of products focused on asset management. The company is headquartered in London and is listed on both the Australian and London stock exchange. It is one of Europes largest investment managers with around 49.5b in assets under management as at Dec 08.




Of note, HGG have increased their holding of AMP to above 3%. I am little disappointed with current SP performance of HGG - were close on an all time low with the RSI heading into oversold territory.

Looking for a bounce here with the increasing volume.


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## piggybank (31 December 2013)




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## piggybank (27 February 2014)

Very surprised by the lack of comment on this stock given it's been on the rise since August 2012. It has also been mentioned at least weekly on the Foxtel Shares Show on the Money Channel.w.

2013 Full Year Results:- http://stocknessmonster.com/news-item?S=HGG&E=ASX&N=784998

​


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## Newt (27 February 2014)

I'll probably regret saying it, but very tight ATR (price variation/volatility) for the steady gains its making too.......


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## Apokolips (25 April 2014)

HGG has been all over the place recently. Up and down like yoyo for real. I bought in a chunk today though, cuz I think a change is coming.


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## pixel (25 April 2014)

Apokolips said:


> I think a change is coming.




The change may already be underway. 
Compare Momentum Divergences in the lead-up to the pullback in June 2013 and earlier this month. Then see how long it has taken the price to break back above the previous resistance last July.


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## pixel (25 April 2014)

Newt said:


> I'll probably regret saying it, but very tight ATR (price variation/volatility) for the steady gains its making too.......




"very tight": compared to what? In itself, the weekly variance has been rather steady around 5% +/-
pretty much on a par for "steady gainers". A high ATR is usually a sign of erratic fluctuation of the sp.




compare NST for example:

View attachment 57717


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## piggybank (25 April 2014)

Apokolips said:


> HGG has been all over the place recently. Up and down like yoyo for real. I bought in a chunk today though, cuz I think a change is coming.




But at least it is going up and down in a channel. However as you will see, there has been a divergence in the MACD compared to the share price. 

​
Example of historical stock price data (top half) with the typical presentation of a MACD(12,26,9) indicator (bottom half). The blue line is the MACD series proper, the difference between the 12-day and 26-day EMAs of the price. The red line is the average or signal series, a 9-day EMA of the MACD series. The bar graph shows the divergence series, the difference of those two lines.

The Red line is the 250 DAILY EMA

What this could mean for the share price I don't honestly know but it will be interesting to see where it goes from here?

​


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## Newt (26 April 2014)

pixel said:


> "very tight": compared to what? In itself, the weekly variance has been rather steady around 5% +/-
> pretty much on a par for "steady gainers". A high ATR is usually a sign of erratic fluctuation of the sp.
> 
> View attachment 57716
> ...




That's an elegant way of comparing and using to benchmark against other stocks.  I'm always keen to find mathematical descriptions of what the eye does so easily with patterns.  Thanks for sharing.  

My original comment followed on from some work looking at ATR multiples above a lower supporting trendline for various stocks, along with the relatively small bar size for share price.  Again, very subjective comments I understand.  The ATR multiple above trend line I've found an interesting way of plotting the size of the montly/bimonthly momentum surges in price you often see in stocks rising like this - was hoping to develop a check to stop me entering more then 2-3 ATR above the lower trend - it can be psychologically hard holding another few months for price gains to pass previous resistance, as you've noted.


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## Newt (26 April 2014)

For example, by entering on 13/1/14 I managed to enter at an almost all time high above the lower trend of about 5-6 ATR multiples.

ATR(15) at that point around 10-12 cents.
Height above white (subjective) lower supporting trend line about 60 cents - that is about 5 x ATR


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## pixel (26 April 2014)

Newt said:


> For example, by entering on 13/1/14 I managed to enter at an almost all time high above the lower trend of about 5-6 ATR multiples.
> 
> ATR(15) at that point around 10-12 cents.
> Height above white (subjective) lower supporting trend line about 60 cents - that is about 5 x ATR




Further on that subject: I use much tighter ATR multiples to determine entries (blue arrows) and exits (red ones). I also find 15 periods badly lagging, especially when conditions change rapidly. OK, that can whipsaw me out at times, as happened for HGG in mid-2013 and again earlier this month. But there is a big advantage of using chart scripts like this: I can look back and find precedents that show me how often this happened in the past, how much - if any - I lost by applying a tight multiple, and whether a different parameter set would yield better profits *for this particular stock.*
Example: An Envelope using a multiple of 2 weeks rather than the standard 1.5 would have entered a little higher ($1.70), but we'd still be holding the investment:




Being  more of a short-term trader, the loss of a few percentage points over several weeks rarely bothers me because I usually find stocks to trade with the freed-up cash more profitably during that time.

However, the envelopes can be applied efficiently for all styles and time periods; I even use them on short-term Intraday charts.


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## Newt (26 April 2014)

Thanks Pixel, great post.
I'm becoming more short term (moving from months to weeks) in my thinking as I learn more.  A post by Peter F some time ago about confusing longer term trend versus shorter term momentum trading got me thinking.

I'm a Radge disciple of using systematic/mathematical logic on my share trading as much as possible.  

Changing parameters per stock would have bothered me some time ago, but can see the logic in adapting to past price for a stock.  Again, appreciate some insights into your timing technique.  Its obviously one thing to find a universe of trending stocks, but another to enter and exit profitably in the market we've seen for last 18 months.


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## Newt (26 April 2014)

So effectively you're using Keltner channels for entry/exit conditions, but vary the number of SDs/ATR for bandwidth per stock?

I can see why you'd exit at May 2012, but not the entry in Sept.  Presumably other criteria in play for entry and you DON'T want to be above the upper Keltner band for an entry to avoid buying too expensive?


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## pixel (26 April 2014)

Newt said:


> So effectively you're using Keltner channels for entry/exit conditions, but vary the number of SDs/ATR for bandwidth per stock?
> 
> I can see why you'd exit at May 2012, but not the entry in Sept.  Presumably other criteria in play for entry and you DON'T want to be above the upper Keltner band for an entry to avoid buying too expensive?




Indeed, there's more to my methodology. Before I add a stock to my watchlist, it has to display a reasonable prospect of bottoming out and coming off support with positive momentum. Those green "W" indicators give a hint.
Buy and Sell arrows are then triggered by candles that leave what you consider Keltner channels. They're similar, but not quite. Funny enough, I arrived at the concept via independent logic and backtested the efficacy over many stocks. Much later, I came across a script in a new charting package and found that Keltner had applied a similar logic.


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## Newt (26 April 2014)

Interesting, whereas traditional trend following will probably be looking to enter much later than you would.  And by waiting for momentum off support you're hopefully not risking "catching a falling knife".  Thanks for sharing.  Again, interesting and thought provoking.

Good trading on HGG anyway - much nicer entry than mine!


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## Knobby22 (31 July 2015)

Pleasing result today
Good company and a good way to avoid the problem of the falling $A.


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## notting (27 June 2016)

Having being destroyed Friday and today, it's looking a little like a blow off low.


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## pixel (27 June 2016)

notting said:


> Having being destroyed Friday and today, it's looking a little like a blow off low.




Possible, Notting, but definitely not yet a certainty.
There has been support around $3.75 in the past; and in November 2013, the rally enjoyed then has paused around the same level. However, there is only a less than 10% safety margin above the 2014 Low. Were that broken, Technicals suggest a continued fall towards $2.50 or even lower - Fibonacci Target could go to $2.10.




I'll wait another day or two before deciding whether to risk a Long position. It would really need a confirmed Higher Low to get me on board.


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## Knobby22 (27 June 2016)

You are probably wiser than me.
Sold at $4.65 and bought back today at $3.85. I am expecting a rally in shares and Pound value which should get the price above $4.00.


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## notting (27 June 2016)

pixel said:


> Possible, Notting, but definitely not yet a certainty.
> There has been support around $3.75 in the past; and in November 2013, the rally enjoyed then has paused around the same level. However, there is only a less than 10% safety margin above the 2014 Low. Were that broken, Technicals suggest a continued fall towards $2.50 or even lower - Fibonacci Target could go to $2.10.
> 
> 
> I'll wait another day or two before deciding whether to risk a Long position. It would really need a confirmed Higher Low to get me on board.




Yeh needs a strong finish and to get it's head above 4. 
It will be interesting if the Brits and Euro can cook up something that will make it a Claytons exit.  Give 'em back boarder control, then say, "Well, we are happy with all the other existing agreements, so chill dudes."


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## skyQuake (27 June 2016)

Probably 1 more day for this sick puppy. This one getting bashed by Aussie sellers AND UK sellers... CYB falling in tandem too


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## notting (27 June 2016)

Yeah morphed into a falling knife since 11:25am!
As has BTT. Both entrenched in UK activities.


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## ROE (27 June 2016)

I am in at close, can buy a few more parcel if it get smashed further


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## So_Cynical (27 June 2016)

ROE said:


> I am in at close, can buy a few more parcel if it get smashed further




That's the spirit.


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## ROE (27 June 2016)

Been sitting on the side with cash for a while, itchy hand
still got plenty of ammunition left to drag it out.

I make sure I stay solvent longer than the market stay irrational


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## skc (27 June 2016)

Now trading in London at 1.96 GBP or $3.48.

I don't know if it's fall is that outsized considering what's happened. This was trading ~$4.80 so it's down ~27% or so. The fall in the pound alone accounts for 10-12% of the fall. So it's only down ~15% since last Thursday if you isolate for the FX impact. 

Overall market weakness will dampen HGG's return, while turmoil in the UK financial sector will reduce FUM inflows, especially from EU investors into a UK fund manager. There are big uncertainties around it's operations after the actual divoice....

I don't know if a 15% fall represents a bargain just yet. It's trading at levels last saw in Jan 2015, which is actually similar to the overall XJO, and same or better than peers like AMP, PTM, PPT, BTT etc.

There might be technical bounces along the way... but it'd be a quarter or 2 before anyone can get a hint on how they are actually impacted.


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## pixel (29 July 2016)

The 2014 Low has held after all, if only by a small margin.
Now that Brexit has been digested and some semblance of sanity returned, the stock is recovering nicely. For starters, I'd consider the $4.40's a reasonable target area, even $5 not out of reach.
Being my July pick of the month, I'm reasonably happy with the result, albeit not as spectacular as the Trillionaire's PSC entry :


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## System (13 June 2017)

On June 13th, 2017, Henderson Group PLC (HCG) changed its name and ASX code to
Janus Henderson Group PLC (JHG).


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## Garpal Gumnut (3 February 2022)

I was reading the Australian today and JHG was mentioned.

Some Americans are on board and it is rumoured a refugee from MFG is mooted to be looking at becoming CEO. 

So I had a look at the chart and took a bite of bacon, just a small bite from this little piglet.

Any thoughts?






gg


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## Country Lad (3 February 2022)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Any thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> gg



For this to improve it has to be a turnaround business. So far since the merger it has seen its funds steadily reduce over 4 years and is a reason the CEO, Dick Well, is departing in March.

The activist shareholders Pelz and Garden going onto the board may make a difference but having personally been on boards numbering 3 to 9, I reckon any more than 7 on a board is a disadvantage and this board increase to 12 has the real possibility of it becoming even more dysfunctional.

I understood they were to report today but hasn’t hit the presses yet. Its immediate share price will likely depend on that report seeing they reported outflows of investor money including $5.2 billion in the third quarter and the market would want to see that turned around.

Also I do not like head and shoulders pattern in P&F – takes quite an effort to turn it around but I hope it does to return to being the good investment it was prior to the merger.


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## divs4ever (3 February 2022)

i bought in when this was HGG  ( June 2016 and February  2017  ) and bought more as it slid lower as JHG  ( August 2018 [ 2 parcels ] , October 2018  and June 2019 ,  )

 and is currently about my seventh largest holding 

 considering the business it is  in ,   yes i find a large board of  directors concerning (  yes it is different for  say BHP or MQG  , because they invest widely )

 i would not be surprised to see outflows continue  , if it goes sub. $30  again  ( like it did in June 2019 )   i am looking to break out the calculator and CONSIDER adding more  if the numbers look good 

 i see plenty of headwinds here  dysfunctional administrations in both the UK and US  ( and those economies don't look so hot either ) , a wild-card  would be a take-over attempt  ( either 'friendly ' or predatory )

interesting to see this increase the board  when many other companies are slimming down (  or spinning off  entire arm/businesses )


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## Dona Ferentes (5 May 2022)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I was reading the Australian today and JHG was mentioned.
> 
> So I had a look at the chart and took a bite of bacon, just a small bite from this little piglet



I hope you didn't get indigestion, _gg_.  Down 15% today and now $37 as the latest update for March quarter failed to impress

_The decline follows company results that revealed earnings per share and revenue numbers fell short of analyst estimates.

Adjusted earnings per share were US75¢ on revenue of around $US620 million ($856 million)._


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## divs4ever (5 May 2022)

am looking for a 2 handle  before i CONSIDER adding more   more likely to  seriously be tempted around $25 

 and this little piglet  can find a way to hide it's lipstick , very well

 have bought as low as $29.55  as JHG  ( in June 2019 ) , but originally jumped in when it was still HGG

 will be plenty of uncertainty  in UK and US investing and funds management in the coming year 

 DYOR

 but possibly one  for the watch-list IF you think the global financial system can survive  the coming turmoil


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