# Is the ALP fit to govern?



## Garpal Gumnut (25 February 2012)

The Australian Labor Party is not fit to govern.

They are a divisive force in the Australian Story.

Driven by ambition and hubris they need to be tossed out of government.

This from an ABC journalist who has all the past history of that organisation's tolerance of muppet soft left government.

Barrie Cassidy

Even he is sick of them.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-02-24/cassidy-labor-leadership-spill-resentment/3850672



> Kevin Rudd has clearly lost the trust and confidence of the overwhelming majority of the caucus. That is why he - and his family - is going over the head of the parliamentary party and appealing to the people to rise up and phone their local member.
> 
> As Jon Faine put it on 774:
> 
> ...




gg


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## Miss Hale (25 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> The Australian Labor Party is not fit to govern.
> 
> They are a divisive force in the Australian Story.
> 
> ...




I was struck today in Anthony Albanese's speech that he emphasised continuously his devotion to the Labor party.  As an elected MP I expect his first duty be to his constituents, then the party he is a part of.   I think this indicates one of the main problems with  Labor at the moment, too much focus on themselves and the party and not enough on governing and the people that elected them.


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## sptrawler (25 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



Miss Hale said:


> I was struck today in Anthony Albanese's speech that he emphasised continuously his devotion to the Labor party.  As an elected MP I expect his first duty be to his constituents, then the party he is a part of.   I think this indicates one of the main problems with  Labor at the moment, too much focus on themselves and the party and not enough on governing and the people that elected them.




+1 exactly.


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## pixel (25 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



Miss Hale said:


> I was struck today in Anthony Albanese's speech that he emphasised continuously his devotion to the Labor party.  As an elected MP I expect his first duty be to his constituents, then the party he is a part of.   I think this indicates one of the main problems with  Labor at the moment, too much focus on themselves and the party and not enough on governing and the people that elected them.



 +2
It has to be said though, the other bunch isn't doing any better in that regard.


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## Garpal Gumnut (25 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



Miss Hale said:


> I was struck today in Anthony Albanese's speech that he emphasised continuously his devotion to the Labor party.  As an elected MP I expect his first duty be to his constituents, then the party he is a part of.   I think this indicates one of the main problems with  Labor at the moment, too much focus on themselves and the party and not enough on governing and the people that elected them.




+3

You have got it in one.

gg


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## Julia (25 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



Miss Hale said:


> I was struck today in Anthony Albanese's speech that he emphasised continuously his devotion to the Labor party.  As an elected MP I expect his first duty be to his constituents, then the party he is a part of.   I think this indicates one of the main problems with  Labor at the moment, too much focus on themselves and the party and not enough on governing and the people that elected them.



+2.


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## So_Cynical (25 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> The Australian Labor Party is not fit to govern.
> 
> They are a divisive force in the Australian Story.
> 
> ...




Ah just what we needed yet another Labor bashing thread .. great work GG  cos the 20 Labor bashing threads we already have going just didn't quite provide enough opportunities for the ASF right to vent there displeasure etc.

--------------------------

MODs this has to be considered spamming of some sort....Report submitted.


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## Calliope (25 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*

Never mind Cynical. They won't be around much longer to bash. Then you will have your turn. In the meantime blame Tony Abbott.


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## Joe Blow (25 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*

Just an idea, but perhaps instead of starting threads with provocative titles, it might be an idea to consider using questions. So, instead of "ALP not fit to govern", please consider, "Is the ALP fit to govern?"

Then you can present your case for whatever side of the argument you're on. 

Provocative thread titles for political threads tend to make people a little more confrontational.

Anyway, just a thought from the person who has to step in and act as the forum policeman when things get a little too personal. 

As an experiment I have gone ahead and renamed this thread. Please consider doing the same for future political threads.


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## sptrawler (25 February 2012)

Good call Joe, maybe a general election would settle the argument for once and all.
It would appear by the news poll a lot of voters would like to have an opportunity to have a say.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/albanese-im-backing-rudd/story-e6freuy9-1226281308306

The numbers would indicate there is indeed a ground swell of support, for showing Julia how she is going.


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## nulla nulla (25 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



pixel said:


> +2
> It has to be said though, the other bunch isn't doing any better in that regard.




Thanks for the objectivity Pixel. Very refreshing.


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## Miss Hale (25 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



pixel said:


> +2
> It has to be said though, the other bunch isn't doing any better in that regard.




I think they are.  Taking away the fact that they are not actually responsible for running the country at the moment, I never hear Coalition MPs making statements like "I have spent my life devoted to the cause of furthering the Australian Labor Party", which is what Albanese said today (Obviously substituting Libs/Nats).  Surely the party is a means to an end not an end in itself? I like to think that an individual decides to run for office then chooses a party that best reflects how they see the world, not become an elected representative in order to further their career as a party member!! I realise there are people on all sides of politics that do this but I think it's more prevalent in the Labor party as evidenced by the current leadership struggle and the debate amongst the government members that is surrounding it.


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## Garpal Gumnut (25 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



Joe Blow said:


> Just an idea, but perhaps instead of starting threads with provocative titles, it might be an idea to consider using questions. So, instead of "ALP not fit to govern", please consider, "Is the ALP fit to govern?"
> 
> Then you can present your case for whatever side of the argument you're on.
> 
> ...




Thanks Joe,

As a small L liberal I admire your resolve.

The Liberal Party has never closed debate, on anything, even the ALP.

Thank you for changing the name of the thread without consultation. it is your forum.

I agree with the name change.

gg


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## Joe Blow (25 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> Thanks Joe,
> 
> As a small L liberal I admire your resolve.
> 
> ...




You know what the Good Book says GG, "Blessed are the peacemakers..."

Incidentally, while you've been chauferring him around, have you told Kev about these threads you've been starting on ASF? Is Kev an anonymous ASF lurker?


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## Garpal Gumnut (25 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



Joe Blow said:


> You know what the Good Book says GG, "Blessed are the peacemakers..."
> 
> Incidentally, while you've been chauferring him around, have you told Kev about these threads you've been starting on ASF? Is Kev an anonymous ASF lurker?




touche Joe,
touche.

You are indeed twice blessed.

lol

Stay sane mate, and some day I will win the comp.

Thanks for putting up with us all.

gg


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## IFocus (25 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



Miss Hale said:


> I was struck today in Anthony Albanese's speech that he emphasised continuously his devotion to the Labor party.  As an elected MP I expect his first duty be to his constituents, then the party he is a part of.   I think this indicates one of the main problems with  Labor at the moment, too much focus on themselves and the party and not enough on governing and the people that elected them.





You have missed the point, the Labor party is elected based on its agenda same as the LNP and its to this agenda and principles Albanese's speaks to. 

If you switch the blinkers off LNP members have made similar statements over the years Howard doing it often.

Really parties are elected on this basis not what most believe that their member is there to act on their behalf fact is in the federal parliament its the bigger picture thats counts.

The only time a local member has any real power is in marginals and in this current parliament  independents where you will generally see higher spend rates. In the case of the current independents ironically they have been criticized for.


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## IFocus (25 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



Joe Blow said:


> You know what the Good Book says GG, "Blessed are the peacemakers..."
> 
> Incidentally, while you've been chauferring him around, have you told Kev about these threads you've been starting on ASF? Is Kev an anonymous ASF lurker?




Don't know about Kev but I have a suspicion who Tony Abbott is here.......


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## McLovin (25 February 2012)

I don't think they are in their current state. I find it laughable that we are watching two idiots fight over who gets to wear the captain's hat on the Titanic.

Maybe the question is a deeper one though: What is the purpose of the ALP in today's Australia? There is no doubt, in my mind anyway, that the Hawke/Keating reforms transformed Australia from a largely blue collar society into a far more educated white collar one. The ALP's base has been eroded. The country they govern now is more educated, more white collar, and with more inequality. They don't seem to understand that they have had their base hollowed out. Whereas 30 years ago the guy on the shop floor was who they counted on they now need to court "aspirational" voters whose wants and needs are very different from the traditional union/blue collar base that built the ALP.

On Albanese; I've always liked his style, not afraid to get out on the hustings and debate his ideas. Much better than most of the middle management types who are in politics these days. I sat next to him on a flight up to Shanghai a few months ago, nice guy.

Just my


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## IFocus (25 February 2012)

McLovin said:


> On Albanese; I've always liked his style, not afraid to get out on the hustings and debate his ideas. Much better than most of the middle management types who are in politics these days. I sat next to him on a flight up to Shanghai a few months ago, nice guy.
> 
> Just my




Thanks Mc haven't heard much about Albanese at a personal level before.


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## Garpal Gumnut (25 February 2012)

From Piers Akerman, a neutral correspondent on national affairs.

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailyteleg...lcome_to_banana_republic_of_labornesia/#98987



> The past week has replaced the darkest days of the Whitlam government as the most disgraceful period in Labor’s history.
> 
> The political class which runs modern Labor, from the failed backroom boys in NSW to the union bag carriers of Brisbane and the militants of Melbourne has finally been exposed.
> 
> Far from being transparent, they have run the Australian government behind a facade, a facade willingly maintained by fawning lickspittles in the Canberra Press Gallery who have focused only on the conservative side of politics.




The ALP are bringing Australia in to disrepute. I know many ALP members and they are sickened by this show.

gg


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## drsmith (25 February 2012)

I'm almost feeling sorry for any Labor supporter that is also a Fremantle Dockers supporter, 

almost.


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## IFocus (25 February 2012)

drsmith said:


> I'm almost feeling sorry for any Labor supporter that is also a Fremantle Dockers supporter,
> 
> almost.




Follow the WCE will sink the boots into a Docker any day as for Labor when Abbott becomes PM I wont be feeling sorry for the right wing


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## Calliope (25 February 2012)

IFocus said:


> Thanks Mc haven't heard much about Albanese at a personal level before.




It turns out that the loud-mouthed, bullying Labor Manager of Business is just a big sook.


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## Julia (25 February 2012)

Miss Hale said:


> I think they are.  Taking away the fact that they are not actually responsible for running the country at the moment, I never hear Coalition MPs making statements like "I have spent my life devoted to the cause of furthering the Australian Labor Party", which is what Albanese said today (Obviously substituting Libs/Nats).  Surely the party is a means to an end not an end in itself? I like to think that an individual decides to run for office then chooses a party that best reflects how they see the world, not become an elected representative in order to further their career as a party member!! I realise there are people on all sides of politics that do this but I think it's more prevalent in the Labor party as evidenced by the current leadership struggle and the debate amongst the government members that is surrounding it.



+1.


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## Julia (25 February 2012)

Calliope said:


> It turns out that the loud-mouthed, bullying Labor Manager of Business is just a big sook.



So he finally came out today and declared his support for K.Rudd, whereupon K.Rudd verbally embraced his "old mate, Albo".
It would be my bet that he had never ever called Mr Albanese "Albo" before.
But now, when he needs friends, it sounds ever so matey.
What a fraud.


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## sptrawler (25 February 2012)

Julia said:


> So he finally came out today and declared his support for K.Rudd, whereupon K.Rudd verbally embraced his "old mate, Albo".
> It would be my bet that he had never ever called Mr Albanese "Albo" before.
> But now, when he needs friends, it sounds ever so matey.
> What a fraud.




The sad fact is they are all tarred with the same brush as Craig Thompson.

They should turn to Bob, he has the answres, he's going to get voted in, he delivered on his promises. What did Mohamid Ali say 'rope a dope' classic.


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## noco (25 February 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> From Piers Akerman, a neutral correspondent on national affairs.
> 
> http://blogs.news.com.au/dailyteleg...lcome_to_banana_republic_of_labornesia/#98987
> 
> ...




Ben Chiefly must be rolling over in his grave.


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## sptrawler (25 February 2012)

noco said:


> Ben Chiefly must be rolling over in his grave.




Mate he would be on a rotisserie.


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## So_Cynical (26 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



Joe Blow said:


> Just an idea, but perhaps instead of starting threads with provocative titles, it might be an idea to consider using questions. So, instead of "ALP not fit to govern", please consider, "Is the ALP fit to govern?"
> 
> Then you can present your case for whatever side of the argument you're on.
> 
> ...




Its your forum Joe...but spam is spam and i consider anyone creating fundamentally the same thread over and over a spammer...ill quote wiki



			
				http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forum_spam said:
			
		

> Forum spam is the creating of messages that are advertisements, abusive, or otherwise unwanted on Internet forums. It is generally done by automated spambots, or manually.




GG is about as close as we get to a bot on this forum, well since robots went quiet.


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## Garpal Gumnut (26 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



So_Cynical said:


> Its your forum Joe...but spam is spam and i consider anyone creating fundamentally the same thread over and over a spammer...ill quote wiki
> 
> 
> 
> GG is about as close as we get to a bot on this forum, well since robots went quiet.




That is extremely unkind, I am touched.

gg


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## bellenuit (26 February 2012)

IFocus said:


> Thanks Mc haven't heard much about Albanese at a personal level before.




Why doesn't he wash his teeth? Every time he opens his mouth I feel like throwing up.


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## bellenuit (26 February 2012)

No.


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## nulla nulla (26 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



IFocus said:


> Don't know about Kev but I have a suspicion who Tony Abbott is here.......




The words of Bob Dylan come to mind for this post...."It aint me...I'm not the one your looking for..."


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## Joe Blow (26 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



So_Cynical said:


> Its your forum Joe...but spam is spam and i consider anyone creating fundamentally the same thread over and over a spammer...ill quote wiki




Politics is a very popular topic of discussion in the General Chat forum, and there are a variety of ways to look at political issues. That being said, I would like to see threads started with the intention of generating genuine debate rather than just stirring the pot, but unless I start creating more rules all I can do is encourage it.

However, I think the problem at the moment is the unprecedented level of drama in federal politics and I expect (or perhaps I should say "hope") that things will settle down somewhat once the current political soap opera has been resolved, and normality, or what passes for it, has returned.


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## pixel (26 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



Joe Blow said:


> Politics is a very popular topic of discussion in the General Chat forum, and there are a variety of ways to look at political issues. I would like to see threads started with the intention of generating genuine debate rather than just stirring the pot, but unless I start creating more rules all I can do is encourage it.
> 
> However, I think the problem at the moment is the unprecedented level of drama in federal politics and I expect (or perhaps I should say "hope") that things will settle down somewhat once the current political soap opera has been resolved, and normality, or what passes for it, has returned.



 +1
spoken like a true liberal: see http://www.synonyms.net/synonym/liberal

*Synonyms: *broad, bounteous, big, freehanded, panoptic, *all-encompassing*, patient of, *kind*, free, all-embracing, *tolerant*, resistant, giving, *bighearted*, large-minded, wide, *handsome*

thanks Joe


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## MACCA350 (26 February 2012)

Someone should run an election poll, then we'd see where the magority of ASF members votes settle.

I would set it up but the poll option doesn't seem to work on my iPad app.

Cheers


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## Nutmeg (26 February 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> The Australian Labor Party is not fit to govern.




Agree totally.  No more needs to be said.


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## basilio (26 February 2012)

I think the ALP is currently incapable of governing effectively. The open warfare between Gillard and Rudd is destroying their capacity to be a united party and an effective government. We'll see what happens in the next few weeks as to whether they are capable of forming a more united party. 

The record of legislation developed, passed and implemented by Julia Gilliard in a hung parliament suggests that up until the recent blow up The ALP was a capable and effective government - despite the resolute determination of "just say no" Abbott to destroy the government and take office. 

_____________________________________________

And thanks Joe for reconstructing the title to give some sense of constructive even handedness to any discussion. 
Cheers


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## moXJO (26 February 2012)

basilio said:


> The record of legislation developed, passed and implemented by Julia Gilliard in a hung parliament suggests that up until the recent blow up The ALP was a capable and effective government - despite the resolute determination of "just say no" Abbott to destroy the government and take office.
> 
> Cheers




Labor seems pre occupied with dirty tricks and character assassination. The same campaign of smear tactics that was used against Abbott is now being used on Rudd. We only had the tent embassy fiasco the other week, Julia lying about knowing beforehand that Rudd was about to get axed, then there was Craig T and the list goes on. This government is tainted and seems to want to do anything to keep in power.
If they had just got on with the Job without the circus they would be better positioned. But true to labor form they didn't disappoint, the amount of bile and venom coming from them over Rudd is a little telling of who they are as people.

At the moment I could handle Rudd if he was true to his word on his commitment on small business and carbon tax proposal, plus the fact he isn't a front for the unions. Of the two I think Gillard is the better leader, but would prefer an election. 

Abbott’s idiot maternity leave idea is a put off though really wish they had someone else at the helm come election time. He is trying to hard to move away from workchoices when what we need is IR reform.


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## sptrawler (26 February 2012)

basilio said:


> The record of legislation developed, passed and implemented by Julia Gilliard in a hung parliament suggests that up until the recent blow up The ALP was a capable and effective government - despite the resolute determination of "just say no" Abbott to destroy the government and take office.




If that were true basilio, she would have got her Malaysian solution through with her partners, instead of blaming an opposition party.
In reality the only legislation she gets through are the ones Bob wants.LOL
Blaming Tony for being an opposition is a stupid ploy that is backfiring something awfull.
Penny Wong, Swanny and the rest parroting, Tony is negative, is just encouraging the electorate to say "so are we".


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## Starcraftmazter (26 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



Miss Hale said:


> I think this indicates one of the main problems with  Labor at the moment, too much focus on themselves and the party and not enough on governing and the people that elected them.




Replace "Labor" with "every political party" and you are correct.


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## Garpal Gumnut (26 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



Starcraftmazter said:


> Replace "Labor" with "every political party" and you are correct.




I would not agree with that.

The Liberal Party is not up it's coite like the ALP.

The ALP's false pitch as a representative of the workers is all but demolished.

It's acolytes in the media, The ABC, The Age, Sydney Morning Herald, Canberra Times, The Monthly and Crikey are battling low circulation and credibility.

The perception of this Upper Middle Class Party of Baby Boomer Entitlement as a dysfunctional rabble is now hitting home to the workers and parents of the next generation of voters.

The ALP is caught between Thug Unions and Bleeding Heart Greens, surviving on the votes of public servants many of whom would be challenged if they worked in the private sector.

It is gorne.

Australians are sick of it.

gg


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## Smurf1976 (26 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



IFocus said:


> You have missed the point, the Labor party is elected based on its agenda same as the LNP and its to this agenda and principles Albanese's speaks to.



My main gripe with Labor is that the agenda they were elected on is substantially different to the one they have implemented.

The agenda they were elected on has as a central plank, amongst other things, "there will be no carbon tax".

The agenda they have implemented in practice has been to introduce a carbon tax as the single most significant policy. That is clearly not what the Australian people voted for.

My point is not for or against a carbon tax per se, but about honesty in politics. If you know that the people do not want something, and are elected on a policy of not doing what the people do not want, then it is simply wrong to change that policy almost as soon as you are elected without at least a change of circumstances justifying the change of policy.

If I vote Green then I am voting for Green policies and expect the party to pursue them. I don't expect Bob Brown to announce that they've changed a few policies and will be setting up a coal mine in the middle of a national park 6 months after they are elected.

If I vote Liberal then I am voting for Liberal policies and expect the party to pursue them. I don't expect Tony Abbot to announce that it will be compulsory for all workers to join a union.

If I vote Labor then I am voting for Labor policies and expect the party to pursue them. I don't expect Rudd / Gillard to announce that they will now be implementing Green policies instead of Labor and will no longer be representing the Australian workers who elected them.

It's about credibility. No matter what policies Labor takes to the next election, few are likely to believe them given recent performance.

In the interest of balance, I'll point out that here in Tasmania the Liberals are no better. The promise to fix all sorts of things without telling anyone how. That is very clearly a case of outright deception and I'd assume that there's a reason for it. Either they don't actually know how, or the "how" bit is expected to be sufficiently unpopular that they aren't willing to tell anyone before the election. Either way, it's dishonest in the extreme. 

Locally we've got big job losses at TEMCO, Ta Ann, K&D, Tote, Aurora, throughout the public service and elsewhere. Boyer is seriously struggling to survive and the timber industry has practically collapsed. Thousands of jobs are gone or on the line due to the situation at those companies alone. Meanwhile water bills are going up, gas has jumped in price, the health system is in crisis, the state's finances continue to worsen and things are not looking too good anywhere. 

Now what do I hear when I turn on the news? Well the Greens are off to Japan in an attempt to undermine local industry here in Tas and nationally there's a schoolyard squabble between Gillard and Rudd. Suffice to say that I'm not impressed in the slightest.


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## sptrawler (26 February 2012)

Excellent smurph, even the dyed in the wool labor voters have to agree with that summation.
That is the very reason they are going to get creamed, next election, no matter how long they wait.


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## Julia (26 February 2012)

sptrawler said:


> In reality the only legislation she gets through are the ones Bob wants.



That's exactly right.  I'm sick to death of hearing about how she is 'getting all this legislation through despite the difficulty of a minority government'.  That is just rubbish.  The legislation she's getting through is *because of the minority government*, i.e. the carbon tax.  When Labor wanted to get the Malaysian Solution through it didn't happen because Bob Brown was against it.

Smurf gives a perfect summary of this below.   

How Labor can trumpet about "the major reform of pricing carbon" when they so clearly went to the election with a policy of not doing so just demonstrates how they have lost the plot.  The same applies to their promise not to change private health insurance etc, etc.

We would have been decidedly better off if they had not got so much of their stupid legislation through the parliament.


Smurf1976 said:


> My main gripe with Labor is that the agenda they were elected on is substantially different to the one they have implemented.
> 
> The agenda they were elected on has as a central plank, amongst other things, "there will be no carbon tax".
> 
> ...


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## Calliope (26 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



Smurf1976 said:


> In the interest of balance, I'll point out that here in Tasmania the Liberals are no better. The promise to fix all sorts of things without telling anyone how. That is very clearly a case of outright deception and I'd assume that there's a reason for it. Either they don't actually know how, or the "how" bit is expected to be sufficiently unpopular that they aren't willing to tell anyone before the election. Either way, it's dishonest in the extreme.




It was my understanding that the Liberals have been in *opposition * in Tasmania for 14 years. They are in no position to fix anything.


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## Smurf1976 (26 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



Calliope said:


> It was my understanding that the Liberals have been in *opposition * in Tasmania for 14 years. They are in no position to fix anything.



Correct that the Liberals have been in opposition since 1998, having been virtually destroyed at the election that year after a 2 year stint in minority government with the Greens and a previous stint in majority government.

The Liberals are however now promising to fix practically every problem the state has, should they be elected at the next state election. The trouble is, they are refusing to tell anyone how they will bring about these magic fixes which makes me and others very suspicious indeed.

If I offer to make you 100% a year on your investments but refuse to tell you how then would you invest money with me? Or would you consider it most likely a scam? Such is the situation with the Liberals - too good to be true outcomes but no detail on how to deliver them - sounds like a scam to me or at best very wishful thinking.


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## Calliope (26 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



Smurf1976 said:


> The Liberals are however now promising to fix practically every problem the state has, should they be elected at the next state election. The trouble is, they are refusing to tell anyone how they will bring about these magic fixes which makes me and others very suspicious indeed.




So what? They would have to be miracle workers to undo all the Green's damage. Not that they will ever get the chance. Tasmanians are rusted-on Greens.


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## Starcraftmazter (26 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> The ALP's false pitch as a representative of the workers is all but demolished.




Their pitch is irrelevant, as is the LNP's. As is just about every other party's. They all BS.



Garpal Gumnut said:


> It's acolytes in the media, The ABC, The Age, Sydney Morning Herald, Canberra Times, The Monthly and Crikey are battling low circulation and credibility.




Yawn.



Garpal Gumnut said:


> The ALP is caught between Thug Unions and Bleeding Heart Greens, surviving on the votes of public servants many of whom would be challenged if they worked in the private sector.




That's funny, because Abbot wants to re-hire those exact same public servants as private contracts with the only exception being he wants to pay them a lot more money. How does that make you feel?


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## Calliope (26 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



Starcraftmazter said:


> That's funny, because Abbot wants to re-hire those exact same public servants as private contracts with the only exception being he wants to pay them a lot more money. How does that make you feel?




It makes *me *feel that you're full of bulls**t.


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## Smurf1976 (26 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



Calliope said:


> So what? They would have to be miracle workers to undo all the Green's damage. Not that they will ever get the chance. Tasmanians are rusted-on Greens.



I think you'll find that more than 4 out of 5 vote Labor or Liberal. The real problem however, is that the further the state's economy slides, the more productive people leave and the more Green supporters replace them. It's a nasty spiral that's been going on for years now.

I'd assume that the reverse would apply in other areas. WA for example. If you were a Green and living in a mining area then the odds are that you'd have left long ago. Meanwhile thousands of mining workers are flooding in. That skews the voting demographic.

As for undoing the damage, I'll just point out that:

1. It was Labor that first derailed private industry in the state in order to grab the green vote. 
2. Then the Liberals amassed huge amounts of state debt in the 1980's.
3. Labor-Green addressed the debt issue but sent the economy into a massive slump. 1989-92.
4. Then Liberal stalled and went nowhere 1992-96.
5. Then Liberal-Green killed all hope and confidence 1996-98.
6. Then came the boom with Labor in charge but it was going flat by the end. 1998-2010.
7. Now it's all fallen in a heap under Labor-Green in a manner which combines the worst elements of previous Liberal and Liberal-Green governments.

The only clear trend I can spot there is that on the 3 occasions we have had a Tas state government involving the Greens, the economic situation has been dismal. There doesn't really seem to be much difference between Labor or Liberal - neither are much good for more than one or two terms.

It's almost amusing to see the same happening at the national level. Labor in power with the Greens, and there's not a lot of good economic news around. Funny that.


----------



## Smurf1976 (26 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



Starcraftmazter said:


> That's funny, because Abbot wants to re-hire those exact same public servants as private contracts with the only exception being he wants to pay them a lot more money. How does that make you feel?



Been there, tried working in the public service, seen that game.

They all do it to some extent, but Liberal is by far the worst at that one. Get a report done, find that consultants will cost literally 3 times as much as doing the same work in house. Then hire the consultants to do it for ideological reasons.

That's how your taxes are thrown away. Labor hands out cash to buy plasmas etc, Liberal hands it directly to selected consultants and contractors.


----------



## Logique (27 February 2012)

Is the ALP fit to govern? 

It's tragic that they actually believe it's a reform to 'price carbon', and 'transition to a green economy'. Tasmanians were sold this line about the green economy, we have seen the catastrophic real world effects.


----------



## Starcraftmazter (27 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



Calliope said:


> It makes *me *feel that you're full of bulls**t.




Well you clearly know **** all - why not look at LNP policy and history, because that is *precisely* what Abbot will do if elected.


----------



## Joe Blow (27 February 2012)

Calliope said:


> It makes *me *feel that you're full of bulls**t.






Starcraftmazter said:


> Well you clearly know **** all




Make your points without this kind of language please. There really is no need for it and it lowers the tone of the debate.


----------



## explod (27 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



Smurf1976 said:


> Been there, tried working in the public service, seen that game.
> 
> They all do it to some extent, but Liberal is by far the worst at that one. Get a report done, find that consultants will cost literally 3 times as much as doing the same work in house. Then hire the consultants to do it for ideological reasons.




Well pointed out and can verify the same conclusions from long experience within a departmental administration.

Here in Victoria lately, big money going back into roads and gaols and closing down juvenile mentor programmes.


----------



## Calliope (27 February 2012)

Joe Blow said:


> Make your points without this kind of language please. There really is no need for it and it lowers the tone of the debate.





Sorry if I offended. I responded to his provocative question "How does that make you feel?" a little too truthfully.  I promise to tone down my comments.


----------



## basilio (27 February 2012)

I believe there will be a marked improvement in Labours behaviour and governance after the failed spill. Why ?

1) Rudd seems to have been well and truly ticked off and won't come back again. That should temporarily silence the dissenters. He also seems to have been gracious in defeat -  a good start to a new beginning

2) I think Julia Gilliard has won points for her strength over the issue as well as recognition of her capacity to manage Cabinet and government

3) All of Labour  members and the Independents will be very keen to work effectively and attempt to prove their viability before the next election. Nothing like an imminent hanging to focus the mind.

A think the public exposure of  Rudds failings as well as his skills has been an education for the public. No ones perfect. All are fallible. Julia Gillard has been an effective PM despite the vicious criticism of political opponents. Lets see how well she can continue.


----------



## sptrawler (27 February 2012)

basilio said:


> A think the public exposure of  Rudds failings as well as his skills has been an education for the public. No ones perfect. All are fallible. Julia Gillard has been an effective PM despite the vicious criticism of political opponents. Lets see how well she can continue.




I suppose it depends what Bob wants her to do next.


----------



## Julia (27 February 2012)

basilio said:


> I believe there will be a marked improvement in Labours behaviour and governance after the failed spill. Why ?
> 
> 1) Rudd seems to have been well and truly ticked off and won't come back again. That should temporarily silence the dissenters. He also seems to have been gracious in defeat -  a good start to a new beginning



Do you really believe either of these points?   I certainly don't.  What could Rudd do other than "be gracious in defeat"?  He's certainly not going to further damage himself by sulking because he didn't win.
Of course he's going to say that he will be totally behind Gillard.  What else could he say?  
But if you believe that, and if you further believe he will not be doing absolutely everything he can to cultivate his own popularity (just as he has done with the public over the last week) and to subtly undermine Gillard, you are either exceptionally charitable or just silly.

He has even said that, although he will not actually challenge Gillard again (and he can always change his mind on this) he believes that if she continues to fall in the polls then his colleagues are going to have to reconsider the leadership.

If that's not a polite way of saying "look fellas, Julia's a gonner, you're going to need me in the end.  I'll make it easy for you by behaving well in the meantime" then I don't know what is!

Mr Rudd will not rest until he has his revenge.  Whether this is in the form of toppling Gillard for the leadership or, if that fails, pulling the pin and causing a by-election. he will not just slide into obscurity.

And if you think all the vicious spilling of blood over the last week will suddenly magically be forgotten and Labor will be a nice little team of happy campers, you're even more mistaken.  The enmity is clearly intense and will not just fade away in some altruistic attempt to make it all better.


----------



## Knobby22 (27 February 2012)

Oh come on Julia, I'm sure they will be having a BBQ together soon and they will all be sharing a joke and calling each other mate (for the cameras)


----------



## basilio (27 February 2012)

Actually Julia I do believe in the points I made.  (Although whether it comes to pass is another question)

Pure self interest will drive Labour to attempt to improve their collective game.  They will either hang together or hang separately.

With regard to Rudd stopping his run for PM.  Todays result was an exceptionally strong rebuff. He didn't get close to thinking about winning. His only practical solution is to look as if he is back in the fold and doing all he came to support Julia. ( But I agree  that privately he will still keep his options open.) And as per my first point everyone has to at least look as if they are reading off the same hymn sheet.

In the bigger picture I think its essential for the Labour party to become more effective.   Parliamentary democracies need effective governments and viable oppositions to work well. Otherwise we may as well have a one party state.


----------



## Calliope (27 February 2012)

Julia said:


> Mr Rudd will not rest until he has his revenge.  Whether this is in the form of toppling Gillard for the leadership or, if that fails, pulling the pin and causing a by-election. he will not just slide into obscurity.




He will never stop planning and scheming a return to power, any more than Napoleon did on Elba.

I see his next move as hurrying back to Queensland where he will be welcomed as a "Brissie" hero. He will take up the fight to help the "underdog" Bligh to bask in his popularity. He will show the Caucus what a great election winner he is by turning Bligh's popularity around. If he pulls this off, and I think it will go close, another challenge can't be rejected by Caucus. There is a sizeable number of people in Qld (including the _Courier Mail_) ready to dump on Newman

Election winners are grinners.


----------



## sptrawler (27 February 2012)

There is one thing for sure, as 'our Julia' says, there is no way Rudd will sit quietly on the back bench twidling his thumbs for 18months.
He will have withdrawl symptoms from the travel perks, not to mention the wining and dining with heads of state.


----------



## moXJO (27 February 2012)

The QLD election will be the make or break of labor harmony. All this BS of labor moving forward together is a laugh. It's a nervous wait to see how the results pan out and then expect more angst from the labor hit squad.


----------



## drsmith (27 February 2012)

Today's result has effectively finished Kevin Rudd's leadership aspirations.

Should they replace Julia Gillard as leader in the future, it will be with someone else.


----------



## Julia (27 February 2012)

Knobby22 said:


> Oh come on Julia, I'm sure they will be having a BBQ together soon and they will all be sharing a joke and calling each other mate (for the cameras)



Of course they will. Silly me to be so cynical.



drsmith said:


> Today's result has effectively finished Kevin Rudd's leadership aspirations.
> 
> Should they replace Julia Gillard as leader in the future, it will be with someone else.



That's a view expressed by Paul Bongiorno and another journalist in a radio interview last night or today.
Why do you think he is not still planning a comeback?
He has even said, apparently, that his plan includes a two-stage attempt, i.e. that he expected to fail initially viz today, but that he believes down the track his opportunity will come again.


----------



## drsmith (27 February 2012)

He can plan all he likes.

With all the bile from last week, how can they ever resurrect him as party leader ?

The good Lord couldn't be resurrected from under that ocean.

If they do replace Julia, I suspect it will be anything but Kev.


----------



## Calliope (27 February 2012)

drsmith said:


> He can plan all he likes.
> 
> With all the bile from last week, how can they ever resurrect him as party leader ?
> 
> ...




Rudd and his family and Bruce Hawker are driven and determined that he will be again PM. It is just a matter of time The polls will always determine the outcomes. He has the ability to completely pull the wool over the eyes of his opponents, and he plays them off a break, and he can manipulate the public at will.

Poor silly Julia said today that she accepts his honesty and his candour. Pathetic.


----------



## noco (28 February 2012)

Calliope said:


> Rudd and his family and Bruce Hawker are driven and determined that he will be again PM. It is just a matter of time The polls will always determine the outcomes. He has the ability to completely pull the wool over the eyes of his opponents, and he plays them off a break, and he can manipulate the public at will.
> 
> Poor silly Julia said today that she accepts his honesty and his candour. Pathetic.




Both K.Rudd and J.Gillard have more spin than Shane Warne.

Warne could have taken some lessons from them but it's too late now unless he decides to go into parliament.


----------



## joea (28 February 2012)

Hi.
Well the ballot is over, the dust is not settled and a storm is brewing!!.
I watched a couple of media conferences, including one on Mark Arbid.
Following this I had a squiz at Q & A.
The only suggestions I have come up with are as follows:

1 Talk is very, very, very cheap in Australian Politics.
2 The problem with Australian politics and policy, is nobody is on the same page.

Finally I have concluded that the Australian Voters will "clear the air" with a Federal Election. And a preview of a Federal election will be seen by 10pm on the 24th March.
Then we will know conclusively the answer to this thread from the voter.

Why do I say this? Because from June 2010 the "BIG" bit missing from the equation of Australian government is the "voter".

joea


----------



## drsmith (28 February 2012)

Allready, there is fighting over the ashes.



> One of Mr Rudd's key backers, Left faction senator Doug Cameron, has accused Ms Gillard's camp of engineering yesterday's spill to "kill off" Mr Rudd politically.




http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-02-28/gillard-won27t-rule-out-spill-payback/3856578?WT.svl=news0


----------



## sails (28 February 2012)

basilio said:


> I believe there will be a marked improvement in Labours behaviour and governance after the failed spill. Why ?
> 
> 1) Rudd seems to have been well and truly ticked off and won't come back again. That should temporarily silence the dissenters. He also seems to have been gracious in defeat -  a good start to a new beginning




hahaha - he doesn't look like a "ticked off" man.  You are deluded if you think he won't be back with unfinished business.  He has the smile of a victor.  My guess is he will wait until after the Qld elections before continuing on with his plan.



> 2) I think Julia Gilliard has won points for her strength over the issue as well as recognition of her capacity to manage Cabinet and government




Now that is totally delusional.  She lied to the electorate and then had the gall to call her deception an achievement.  Her personal polling is dropping.

Is delusional one of the traits of being labor?



> 3) All of Labour  members and the Independents will be very keen to work effectively and attempt to prove their viability before the next election. Nothing like an imminent hanging to focus the mind.




I don't think they are capable of such effectiveness.



> A think the public exposure of  Rudds failings as well as his skills has been an education for the public. No ones perfect. All are fallible. Julia Gillard has been an effective PM despite the vicious criticism of political opponents. Lets see how well she can continue.




RUBBISH.  Rudd is still streets ahead on polling over Gillard.  If you think Rudd is bad, the public see Gillard as much, much worse.

Basilo, no wonder you have been taken for a ride with global warming and carbon tax.  If you really believe your statements above, you are not thinking for yourself, imo.


----------



## Knobby22 (28 February 2012)

sails said:


> RUBBISH.  Rudd is still streets ahead on polling over Gillard.  If you think Rudd is bad, the public see Gillard as much, much worse.
> 
> .




He is only streets ahead if you poll Liberal voters who are not going to vote for him anyway. Secondly, it appears you have been fooled by parts of the right wing media who were making out that Rudd could walk on water in an attempt to try to get him votes. 

The pollys were getting most of their constituents asking them to vote Gillard. They did get some (often abusive) emails from people who did not name themesleves saying vote for Rudd but the reality is these were unnamed and were probably other political parties hacks trying to influence the result. That is one of the reasons why most of the marginal seats went with Gillard. The reality doesn't match your thinking so stop being so rude to Basilio.

I believe that was the biggest loss in a challenge in Labor history.


----------



## Calliope (28 February 2012)

Knobby22 said:


> He is only streets ahead if you poll Liberal voters who are not going to vote for him anyway. Secondly, it appears you have been fooled by parts of the right wing media who were making out that Rudd could walk on water in an attempt to try to get him votes.




He was also ahead with Labor voters. The left wing Fairfax press were his biggest supporters.



> They did get some (often abusive) emails from people who did not name themesleves saying vote for Rudd but the reality is these were unnamed and were probably other political parties hacks trying to influence the result.




I heard on the ABC that the massive email assault on marginal Caucas members was engineered by sweet Jessica Rudd.



> The reality doesn't match your thinking so stop being so rude to Basilio.




I don't think she needs Sir Galahad to ride to her rescue.


----------



## Knobby22 (28 February 2012)

Calliope said:


> He was also ahead with Labor voters. The left wing Fairfax press were his biggest supporters.
> .




That is so not true. Did you see the Herald Sun. 4 pages full of how great Rudd is with people in pubs all saying they would vote for Rudd. Biggest beat up I've ever seen. Though Jesus had returned.


----------



## sptrawler (28 February 2012)

drsmith said:


> Today's result has effectively finished Kevin Rudd's leadership aspirations.
> 
> Should they replace Julia Gillard as leader in the future, it will be with someone else.




Going on with your train of thought drsmith, maybe that was why Swan had such a prolonger, vicious attack of Rudd.
Maybe trying to show the public he has some b@lls and isn't just whimpy Mr Biege.
Now with the new P.M pay rise and commensurate pension, maybe he fancies a piece of the action.
Nothing would suprise me with this lot.


----------



## Julia (28 February 2012)

Calliope said:


> Rudd and his family and Bruce Hawker are driven and determined that he will be again PM. It is just a matter of time The polls will always determine the outcomes. He has the ability to completely pull the wool over the eyes of his opponents, and he plays them off a break, and he can manipulate the public at will.
> 
> Poor silly Julia said today that she accepts his honesty and his candour. Pathetic.



I don't think she's under any illusions about him at all.  She would have said all that unrealistic stuff in the same way Rudd said everything he said about being 100% behind her etc.  Complete rubbish on both their parts and they both know it.
Ditto all the other caucus members, e.g. Shorten who have said it's all OK now, folks, nothing to see here, we all love one another, and everyone will have a great big group hug.

Gillard, imo, will be entirely aware that Rudd will be now ready to move to stage two of his plan.  His very ebullience demonstrates that he has such a plan.

One thing that I think was amply demonstrated in the vote yesterday was the truth of what the anti-Rudd camp had been saying about how diabolical he was to work with.  If so many of them could ignore the popular electorate vote shown in the polls, and still vote against him, they must indeed be horrified at the thought of ever again working with him.


----------



## Calliope (28 February 2012)

Knobby22 said:


> That is so not true. Did you see the Herald Sun. 4 pages full of how great Rudd is with people in pubs all saying they would vote for Rudd. Biggest beat up I've ever seen. Though Jesus had returned.




Wrong on both counts;



> Crucially, Mr Rudd has a 17-point lead over Ms Gillard as preferred prime minister among Labor voters and an almost two-to-one lead among Coalition voters.



 Newspoll

Peter Hartcher, the political editor of the SMH has always championed Rudd. He was always the main recipient of Rudd's leaks and there were many.The impression I got was that The Australian favoured Gillard.

I, of course was impartial. I enjoyed seeing two bare-faced liars tearing themselves apart. Call it schadenfreude.


----------



## sails (28 February 2012)

Knobby22 said:


> ...I believe that was the biggest loss in a challenge in Labor history.




lol - I don't think it's over by a long shot yet.  Rudd has the grin of a winner.  He has time on his side.


----------



## Eager (28 February 2012)

Is the ALP fit to govern? Well, they ARE governing, in the purest sense of the word. In fact, to negotiate the minefields thus far and continue to pass all manner of legislation should be seen as a remarkable achievement.

Of course, they are governing with the assistance of a few indies that didn't want to form government with the Noalition; a group whose leader only won his ballot by one vote. 

As an aside, it is interesting to note that the two threads started by gg have attracted 4x more interest in this one than the other, proving the observation that conservative pollies are more interested in the ALP than putting up something constructive with their own policies...and that their fans are just happy to repeat what they say, parrot fashion.


----------



## sails (28 February 2012)

Knobby22 said:


> ...The reality doesn't match your thinking so stop being so rude to Basilio...





Oh diddems...lol

When Basilio stops posting delusional rubbish, I will stop pointing out his nonsense.  If you consider that rude, you need toughen up...lol


----------



## sails (28 February 2012)

Eager said:


> ...As an aside, it is interesting to note that the two threads started by gg have attracted 4x more interest in this one than the other, proving the observation that conservative pollies are more interested in the ALP than putting up something constructive with their own policies...and that their fans are just happy to repeat what they say, parrot fashion.




Hahahahaha  - last time I checked, ALP are in government, albeit it a minority government.  And their constant circus performances and staggering from one disaster to the next have people running with strong emotions about this rabble.

The COalition are running along quite smoothly with the only thing you have against them is a leader who has pulled the party together quite well since Turnbull.  Sure, he has problems with fluent speech, but he has been a very effective opposition leader.

I suspect it is Abbott's effectiveness that make him the target of ALP supporters who constantly deride and mock him.  He must present a pretty solid threat to ALP.


----------



## sptrawler (28 February 2012)

Eager said:


> ..and that their fans are just happy to repeat what they say, parrot fashion.




What a bit like labor fans repeating "Tony's negative" parrot fashion.LOL


----------



## Julia (28 February 2012)

Eager said:


> Is the ALP fit to govern? Well, they ARE governing, in the purest sense of the word. In fact, to negotiate the minefields thus far and continue to pass all manner of legislation should be seen as a remarkable achievement.



Here we go again with this myth that the ALP has had to engage in really difficult negotiations to get legislation through.  Totally wrong.  What they're getting through are the policies dictated by the Greens and the Independents so there's nothing too difficult about that!

What happened when they wanted the Malaysian Solution passed?   Their 'partners' the Greens and the Independents, didn't like that, so the legislation failed.

Let's just be a bit realistic about the passage of legislation with this government.


----------



## Calliope (28 February 2012)

sails said:


> lol - I don't think it's over by a long shot yet.  Rudd has the grin of a winner.  He has time on his side.




Yes. It was the opening gambit. He was just testing the defences and his popularity with the voters. He will now plan his strategy accordingly. Gillard may have cut off one head, but like the Hydra he has many;







Incidently, killing the Hydra was the Second Labour of Hercules. Gillard is no Hercules.


----------



## Smurf1976 (28 February 2012)

Julia said:


> Here we go again with this myth that the ALP has had to engage in really difficult negotiations to get legislation through.  Totally wrong.  What they're getting through are the policies dictated by the Greens and the Independents so there's nothing too difficult about that!
> 
> What happened when they wanted the Malaysian Solution passed?   Their 'partners' the Greens and the Independents, didn't like that, so the legislation failed.
> 
> Let's just be a bit realistic about the passage of legislation with this government.



I would argue that in practice, the Greens / Independents are the "real" government at present.

Labor can't get legislation through without the support of Greens / Independents which gives them a huge amount of influence and the ability to stop any policy they choose from being implemented.


----------



## Miss Hale (29 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



Starcraftmazter said:


> Replace "Labor" with "every political party" and you are correct.




True to a certain extent but much worse with the current Labor party IMO.  Most times I've heard the Libs doing this is after an election win, at party conferences or in an in depth interview when they are asked questions about it which is approrpriate.  But when you are just giving a general press conference as Albanese was when the leadership of the country is in the balance the last thing I want to hear is all about his dedication to his political party.

Albanese also said "I want to fight Torries...that's what I do" (hmm, and here was I thinking he was supposed to be governing the country ) and both Rudd Gillard were saying they were the best people to stop Abbott from becoming PM. What I want to hear from my elected MPs is what they are ging to do for me as as a constituent, not them going on about about dedication to their party, fighting the opposition and keeping the other lot out! Show me why you deserve to be in!!


----------



## Starcraftmazter (29 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



Miss Hale said:


> True to a certain extent but much worse with the current Labor party IMO.  Most times I've heard the Libs doing this is after an election win, at party conferences or in an in depth interview when they are asked questions about it which is approrpriate.  But when you are just giving a general press conference as Albanese was when the leadership of the country is in the balance the last thing I want to hear is all about his dedication to his political party.
> 
> Albanese also said "I want to fight Torries...that's what I do" (hmm, and here was I thinking he was supposed to be governing the country ) and both Rudd Gillard were saying they were the best people to stop Abbott from becoming PM. What I want to hear from my elected MPs is what they are ging to do for me as as a constituent, not them going on about about dedication to their party, fighting the opposition and keeping the other lot out!




What you need to understand is that this crap happens in politics constantly - every single party, and every single country.

The only - and I mean *the only* real difference is that this time it was more public than it usually is.

There is no need to be naive.


----------



## Miss Hale (29 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



Starcraftmazter said:


> What you need to understand is that this crap happens in politics constantly - every single party, and every single country.
> 
> The only - and I mean *the only* real difference is that this time it was more public than it usually is.
> 
> There is no need to be naive.




I am not being naive and I know it goes on in every party as I have already acknowledged.  My point is that it is more prevalent in the ALP at the moment and I stand by that. Yes, it was more public this time for sure, yet more confirmation that the ALP is wrapped up in themselves and not focused on the job of running the country!


----------



## Calliope (29 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



Starcraftmazter said:


> What you need to understand is that this crap happens in politics constantly - every single party, and every single country.




And yet you complain about any criticism of your crappy Labor party. Your only excuse is to say that all parties are crappy.


----------



## Starcraftmazter (29 February 2012)

*Re: ALP Not Fit To Govern*



Calliope said:


> And yet you complain about any criticism of your crappy Labor party. Your only excuse is to say that all parties are crappy.




I am no fan of the Labor party, it merely seems silly to me that some people here attribute universal truths to one specific party as though it's somehow limited to that one party. Which it isn't.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (1 March 2012)

My contacts in Sussex St. tell me that this is not the beginning of the end, but the end of the beginning, and that the status quo will change, very, very shortly.

Modesty obviates me from further disclosure.

You heard it here first.

gg


----------



## joea (2 March 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> My contacts in Sussex St. tell me that this is not the beginning of the end, but the end of the beginning, and that the status quo will change, very, very shortly.
> 
> Modesty obviates me from further disclosure.
> 
> ...




What did we hear?
That the reshuffle will make all things healthy and strong???
joea


----------



## moXJO (2 March 2012)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> My contacts in Sussex St. tell me that this is not the beginning of the end, but the end of the beginning, and that the status quo will change, very, very shortly.
> 
> gg




Rise of the class wars?
Can you smell the socialist creep invading Joe public


----------



## Logique (2 March 2012)

The factional infighting continues. Now the NSW Right are looking daggers at the Victorian Right over the Bob Carr imbroglio, the NSW faction blaming the Vics for sabotaging the appointment. I heard Carr was already in the car on the way to Canberra. There's also a scrum about the Whip, the Left think it should be Harry Jenkins, and that the Right have controlled the position for too long.


----------



## joea (5 May 2012)

I do not know the answer to this thread.
However next week will be interesting to the extent that we may find out.
Or at the very least find some answers.

http://www.afr.com/p/national/union_explodes_ship_in_peril_CKHDjXbk0S280lzlVzfuDP

just call be inquisitive!
joea


----------



## Julia (5 May 2012)

Joe, it's a bit pointless, not to mention frustrating, when you put up a link which is only available to subscribers.
Perhaps instead do a copy and paste of enough of the article to provide some sense of what the gist is.


----------



## Tisme (15 August 2017)

In 1913 Lenin described the ALP as "‘liberal workers party’, ‘the unalloyed representative of the non-socialist workers trade unions’

https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1913/jun/13.htm

Of course their core policy of management of  Australian capitalism led them to embrace economic rationalism/neo-liberalism starting around Malcolm Fraser's reign. Along with it they ejected the working class and lower white collar social beliefs.


----------



## PZ99 (15 August 2017)

The ALP of 40 years ago is anachronistic to the ALP of today. They filled the Liberal void abandoned by the Coalition of recent times. Since this thread was started, they slipped to the right on asylum seekers and climate change and even their IR laws are more third way than in the Keating era.

Are they fit to govern? Maybe... if they win the election on merit rather than by default.


----------



## crackajack (15 August 2017)

Is any government in the world fit to govern lol


----------



## crackajack (15 August 2017)

Govnuts just like pissing in each others pockets same sheit different day.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (15 August 2017)

crackajack said:


> Govnuts just like pissing in each others pockets same sheit different day.




Thank you for your elegant reply with which I agree, but could not express as well as you.

The ALP is in dangerous waters using a foreign MP to gather information on Mr. Joyce. It smells a bit of the Rhiannons, a period of time in the 1950's and 60's when allegiances were dual and often multiple a la John Le Carre. 

gg


----------



## SirRumpole (15 August 2017)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Thank you for your elegant reply with which I agree, but could not express as well as you.
> 
> The ALP is in dangerous waters using a foreign MP to gather information on Mr. Joyce. It smells a bit of the Rhiannons, a period of time in the 1950's and 60's when allegiances were dual and often multiple a la John Le Carre.
> 
> gg




It's not secret defence information, I don't know what the fuss is about.

A dity trick perhaps , but not a hanging offence.


----------



## PZ99 (15 August 2017)

NZ will become our 7th state by next year I reckon


----------



## pixel (15 August 2017)

it really reeks of desperation when one's pet peeve is used to make excuses for the inexcusable.
The fact is, "Mr Joyce" told Parliament that a NZ Official had advised him of his citizenship. You can't blame Labor for the accident of "Mr Joyce" senior's birth. Trying to do so proves nothing but bias.


----------



## pixel (15 August 2017)

PZ99 said:


> NZ will become our 7th state by next year I reckon



The Kiwis have it the other way round. Their maps show North Island, South Island, and West Island.


----------



## SirRumpole (15 August 2017)

We let them beat us at Rugby and they think they own us


----------



## Logique (15 August 2017)

crackajack said:


> Govnuts just like pissing in each others pockets same sheit different day.



 No use trying to hypnotize us with your spellbinding rhetoric cracka. 

As for the ALP, in earlier times, consorting with a foreign power used to be known as sedition. Followed closely by a brief journey to the block.


----------



## SirRumpole (15 August 2017)

Logique said:


> No use trying to hypnotize us with your spellbinding rhetoric cracka.
> 
> As for the ALP, in earlier times, consorting with a foreign power used to be known as sedition. Followed closely by a brief journey to the block.




I don't think it's is any secret that Labor wants to overthrow the government is there ? 

I wonder what shennanigans went on with the CIA when Whitlam was dumped.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (15 August 2017)

PZ99 said:


> NZ will become our 7th state by next year I reckon




Territory mate, not a state. We have many sheep in Australia which need to be protected from gum-booted sexually deprived yokels. 

Once they behave for possibly 50 years I would consider Statehood. 

gg


----------



## drsmith (15 August 2017)

Logique said:


> As for the ALP, in earlier times, consorting with a foreign power used to be known as sedition. Followed closely by a brief journey to the block.




It was Penny Wong's chief of staff according to Fairfax,


> Fairfax Media can reveal it was Labor frontbencher Penny Wong's chief of staff, Marcus Ganley, who contacted New Zealand MP Chris Hipkins. It's understood Mr Ganley, who is from New Zealand, spoke to Mr Hipkins about citizenship laws but did not mention Mr Joyce.
> 
> Mr Hipkins subsequently asked a number of questions about Australia-New Zealand citizenship laws in the New Zealand Parliament.




http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...tioning-of-barnaby-joyce-20170815-gxwqli.html


----------



## Tisme (16 August 2017)

pixel said:


> it really reeks of desperation when one's pet peeve is used to make excuses for the inexcusable.
> The fact is, "Mr Joyce" told Parliament that a NZ Official had advised him of his citizenship. You can't blame Labor for the accident of "Mr Joyce" senior's birth. Trying to do so proves nothing but bias.




The rest of us have to suffer at the hands of the law if we don't play by the rules, even if it takes a lawyer to figure out what the rules are. No excuse of ignorance of the law has always been the mantra the legal profession uses to put their hands in our pockets ...  Barnaby is surrounded by lawyers, even his boss, so there is no excuse for his breaking the law.


----------



## moXJO (16 August 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> We let them beat us at Rugby and they think they own us



Well one of ours was running your country.
Pretty sure the fatties at the pub could currently beat Australia in rugby.


----------



## SirRumpole (16 August 2017)

moXJO said:


> Well one of ours was running your country.
> Pretty sure the fatties at the pub could currently beat Australia in rugby.




Whuch wut ye say chim , stick to yer fush and chups.


----------



## Tisme (16 August 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Whuch wut ye say chim , stick to yer fush and chups.





Choice!


----------



## MrBurns (10 September 2017)




----------



## SirRumpole (10 September 2017)

MrBurns said:


> View attachment 72579




Who appointed him Director-General of the Department of Finance and Services in April 2011 ?

Barry O'Farrell, Liberal Party.


----------



## MrBurns (10 September 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Who appointed him Director-General of the Department of Finance and Services in April 2011 ?
> 
> Barry O'Farrell, Liberal Party.




That only confirms the level of corruption across all parties.


----------



## Logique (12 December 2017)

Sam Dastyari is still there, and Bill Shorten is skulking around in NZ, safely out of harms way.

Meanwhile the _second worst_ PM ever has lit on a new pathway to Other People's Money._ La Gillard _now wants a sexual abuse compensation scheme.

We're already paying +.5% extra Medicare Levy to pay for her last thought bubble, the NDIS.


----------



## PZ99 (12 December 2017)

Try this one... Chinese billionaire Huang Xiangmo paid $55,000 for lunch with Bill Shorten

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-...e-paid-$55,000-for-lunch-with-shorten/9248342

More than four fried chickens and a coke....


----------



## SirRumpole (12 December 2017)

PZ99 said:


> Try this one... Chinese billionaire Huang Xiangmo paid $55,000 for lunch with Bill Shorten
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-...e-paid-$55,000-for-lunch-with-shorten/9248342
> 
> More than four fried chickens and a coke....




Not as much as the "Julie Bishop Glorious Foundation".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-14/sally-zou-mining-magnate-liberal-party-donor/9125672


----------



## PZ99 (12 December 2017)

C'mon Horace...

Does Julie Bishop look like someone who devours chickens and coke?

I reckon pollies who did should be tested for Uncle Sam citizenship


----------



## SirRumpole (12 December 2017)

PZ99 said:


> C'mon Horace...
> 
> Does Julie Bishop look like someone who devours chickens and coke?
> 
> I reckon pollies who did should be tested for Uncle Sam citizenship




Bishop is careful to maintain an appearance of disconnect between her and her donors. Dastyari got caught because he's a dill, that doesn't alter the fact that all parties take foreign donations. 

I haven't seen one hand a donation back, have you ?


----------



## PZ99 (12 December 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Bishop is careful to maintain an appearance of disconnect between her and her donors. Dastyari got caught because he's a dill, that doesn't alter the fact that all parties take foreign donations.
> 
> I haven't seen one hand a donation back, have you ?



Apart from Barnaby Joyce, no I haven't. 

Doing so is looked upon as guilty until proven innocent in this combative world.


----------



## SirRumpole (12 December 2017)

Dastyari does the right thing, finally...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-12/sam-dastyari-resigns-from-parliament/9247390


----------



## dutchie (12 December 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Dastyari does the right thing, finally...
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-12/sam-dastyari-resigns-from-parliament/9247390




Now leave Australia Sam.


----------



## SirRumpole (12 December 2017)

PZ99 said:


> Try this one... Chinese billionaire Huang Xiangmo paid $55,000 for lunch with Bill Shorten
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-...e-paid-$55,000-for-lunch-with-shorten/9248342
> 
> More than four fried chickens and a coke....




In case we are naive enough to think that political donations are for one side or the other.

It's a case of pay your money and see who comes up with the goods for you.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-...t-linked-to-greater-sydney-commission/9247860


----------



## Logique (12 December 2017)

Kristina Keneally, if she doesn't get past the post in Bennelong, might get a consolation prize. 

There's a Senate spot that's just opened up.  That leak from Tamya Plibersek's office was the final blow, and Dastyrari knew it.


----------



## PZ99 (12 December 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> In case we are naive enough to think that political donations are for one side or the other.
> 
> It's a case of pay your money and see who comes up with the goods for you.
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-...t-linked-to-greater-sydney-commission/9247860



Try this one 

Federal Liberals defend dealings with Chinese businessman at centre of Dastyari's downfall

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-...eir-dealings-with-chinese-businessman/9251172


----------



## SirRumpole (12 December 2017)

PZ99 said:


> Try this one
> 
> Federal Liberals defend dealings with Chinese businessman at centre of Dastyari's downfall
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-...eir-dealings-with-chinese-businessman/9251172





_"Federal Liberals insist it is not as politically damaging for them to have received donations from Chinese businessman Huang Xiangmo as it is for Labor's Sam Dastyari."
_
Guys, it's politically damaging for everyone, Just don't do it. Labor now has the moral high ground because they no longer take foreign donations whereas the LNP still do.


----------



## moXJO (12 December 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> _"Federal Liberals insist it is not as politically damaging for them to have received donations from Chinese businessman Huang Xiangmo as it is for Labor's Sam Dastyari."
> _
> Guys, it's politically damaging for everyone, Just don't do it. Labor now has the moral high ground because they no longer take foreign donations whereas the LNP still do.



Taking kickbacks and foreign money from union donations instead


----------



## dutchie (14 December 2017)

Labor MP Linda Burny met Chinese billionaire donor she criticised Sam Dastyari for meeting

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/n...g/news-story/548abed81f43d91276721716e779048e

Hypocrite!!

Seems like Labor really like Chinese (donations)


----------



## SirRumpole (14 December 2017)

dutchie said:


> Labor MP Linda Burny met Chinese billionaire donor she criticised Sam Dastyari for meeting




PM Turnbull met the same bloke !


----------



## dutchie (14 December 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> PM Turnbull met the same bloke !




He's a hypocrite too!

(Who *hasn't* met this pest???)


----------



## IrishDigger (15 December 2017)

To quote Nick Xenophon on the current political situation in Australia,

“We basically have a government that deserves to lose and an opposition that does not deserve to win.”


----------



## drsmith (16 December 2017)

The Libs hang on to Bennelong by some margin as it turns out. The electorate as a whole clearly wasn't looking to see a change in government as it did in 2007 when it deposed the then PM John Howard. Labor threw everything at this seat including the Christina sink and still fell short. A Bill Shorten prime ministership is not something they're overly enthusiastic about.

Whether or not it's a rennainence for Malcolm Turnbull's leadership as proclaimed by John Alexander depends on what Malcolm Turnbull has failed to do thus far and that is lead a united Liberal Party in the year ahead.


----------



## moXJO (16 December 2017)

Labor threw a lot of money at this one. Shorten wants to be PM at any cost. Glad that KK was rejected a second time.


----------



## Boggo (16 December 2017)

Eddie Obeid, Joe Tripodi and Billy boy hiding under a rock in NZ until the dust with his mate Iranian Sam settled, and they expect to win


----------



## PZ99 (17 December 2017)

The Govt will be hoping that 5% swing against them isn't uniform at the next election


----------



## Logique (17 December 2017)

54:46 to Libs on 2PP.  The polls underestimated the Lib support.

Looking at the media coverage, you'd be forgiven for thinking it was Malcolm Turnbull who was the candidate, not JA.  All over it was Malcolm.


----------



## Tisme (17 December 2017)

For any wannabe ALP voter, remember it comes with a free Penny Wong and Tanya Plibersek in every pot pulling the strings.


----------



## moXJO (17 December 2017)

Logique said:


> 54:46 to Libs on 2PP.  The polls underestimated the Lib support.
> 
> Looking at the media coverage, you'd be forgiven for thinking it was Malcolm Turnbull who was the candidate, not JA.  All over it was Malcolm.



Can't trust polls, or news these days. Makes you wonder if the media just puts up a bit of fake news to get the lib or lab supporters out voting.


----------



## dutchie (18 December 2017)

Tisme said:


> For any wannabe ALP voter, remember it comes with a free Penny Wong and Tanya Plibersek in every pot pulling the strings.




Stop frightening the children.


----------



## Knobby22 (18 December 2017)

According to the Age, four new by elections are likely next year. All Labor seats.
I think the public will be angry with them. The Greens, Libs, Nats,Xen and ON all took their medicine while Labor said their systems were better. Seems only their internal controls of their people was better, not their systems. 4 by elections is a lot!


----------



## Tisme (18 December 2017)

Knobby22 said:


> According to the Age, four new by elections are likely next year. All Labor seats.
> I think the public will be angry with them. The Greens, Libs, Nats,Xen and ON all took their medicine while Labor said their systems were better. Seems only their internal controls of their people was better, not their systems. 4 by elections is a lot!




If you or I broke the law we'd be convicted, fined and social pariahs. Politicians get away with a lot it seems. Considering eligibility is pretty plain and members take an oath to the Crown, I find it farcical and insulting.

The nonsense of using migration as an excuse is equally insulting....what do they think the country comprised of back in the 1890's when they drew up the constitution?



> In 1901, 2,908,303 people *(77.2%)* counted in Australia were Australian-born and 857,576 *(22.8%)* stated that they were born overseas.
> 
> In 1901, the three main countries of birth for those born overseas were:
> 
> ...


----------



## SirRumpole (18 December 2017)

Tisme said:


> If you or I broke the law we'd be convicted, fined and social pariahs. Politicians get away with a lot it seems. Considering eligibility is pretty plain and members take an oath to the Crown, I find it farcical and insulting.




Maybe they need to sign a Statutory Declaration that they are definitely not a citizen of another country.

That might make them do their homework properly.


----------



## sptrawler (18 December 2017)

SirRumpole said:


> Maybe they need to sign a Statutory Declaration that they are definitely not a citizen of another country.
> 
> That might make them do their homework properly.




I wonder if renouncing citizenship of a Country, cancels your right to apply for a pension from that Country?


----------



## dutchie (20 December 2017)

Notorious union boss, Joe McDonald, given ALP award

The Labor Party has given an outstanding service award to militant construction unionist Joe McDonald, who holds the record as the nation’s most prosecuted union boss over convictions for assault, threats, trespass, contempt of court and industrial law breaches.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...d/news-story/6541637a79edc1a39973e3feb21c24e6

Its an insult to the electorate for a party with this sort of behaviour, that rewards a criminal, to seek to run the country. Labor has very poor scruples.


----------



## Tisme (23 January 2018)

Outgoing el presidente of the ALP Mark Butler has blamed "backroom boffoonery" as the reason for declining membership in the party.

Like the LNP I would suggest it expends its influence in self indulgent, foolish profligacy in pursuit of owning the vote of an increasingly self indulgent electorate. They have created their own demise by encouraging the "what about me" lax morality mentality of the population.

The new union base is one of social cohesion based on gender, sexuality, hurt feelings et al, with the traditional working class now consigned to history.


----------



## Logique (23 January 2018)

'.._the traditional working class now consigned to history_': Tisme

Indeed, these days, the socialism is mainly of the chardonnay variety. Newcastle and Wollongong coal miners?  They're suddenly inconvenient, and the MPs and Unions are complicit. 

Yet the miners continue to elect Labor so-called representatives. Who can believe it.


----------



## dutchie (28 February 2018)

Wee Willy says his biggest regret is not promoting more women.
Aww shucks Billy, that should get you some female votes, especially the ones that don't know your wanker.


----------



## PZ99 (28 February 2018)

Maybe he's gun shy after his last female "promotion" of Julia Gillard


----------



## Tisme (28 February 2018)

Logique said:


> '.._the traditional working class now consigned to history_': Tisme
> 
> Indeed, these days, the socialism is mainly of the chardonnay variety. Newcastle and Wollongong coal miners?  They're suddenly inconvenient, and the MPs and Unions are complicit.
> 
> Yet the miners continue to elect Labor so-called representatives. Who can believe it.




Ingrained loyalty to ghosts of xmas past. 

The only thing that keeps the corpse from being buried is the continual shadow boxing and reference to unions and labor by the LNP... it is they who are responsible for Labor not being consigned to history.

Someone should report the ALP to the ACCC for false representation and not fit for purpose products.


----------



## Tisme (28 February 2018)

PZ99 said:


> Maybe he's gun shy after his last female "promotion" of Julia Gillard




At least Gillard's legacies have been beneficial, even if she was a backstabber.

No magpie Bill's big problem is how to convince the party faithful to change the name to "The Australian Bits 'n Bobs Party"


----------



## explod (28 February 2018)

Tisme said:


> At least Gillard's legacies have been beneficial, even if she was a backstabber.
> 
> No magpie Bill's big problem is how to convince the party faithful to change the name to "The Australian Bits 'n Bobs Party"



Nah "theCowTow, I I I" party for photo shoots.  He's learning to be good at it from the "image" of Turnbull.  A bit more substance with Bill but too early to say yet.


----------



## SirRumpole (28 February 2018)

Tisme said:


> At least Gillard's legacies have been beneficial, even if she was a backstabber.
> 
> No magpie Bill's big problem is how to convince the party faithful to change the name to "The Australian Bits 'n Bobs Party"




Gillard was a better PM than most gave her credit for. I'd have to say that an incredibly misogynistic campaign against her by the likes of Alan Jones did her in, (an that is from a notable anti PC'er ).


----------



## moXJO (28 February 2018)

Gillard was crap. Lets move on


----------



## explod (28 February 2018)

moXJO said:


> Gillard was crap. Lets move on



Would you like to indicate why on that statement?


----------



## wayneL (28 February 2018)

explod said:


> Would you like to indicate why on that statement?



http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/op...r/news-story/0953d3acbfac5d0e1dccff484c6397a1


----------



## SirRumpole (28 February 2018)

wayneL said:


> http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/op...r/news-story/0953d3acbfac5d0e1dccff484c6397a1




 Ah yes, the notoriously independent HeraldSun.


----------



## explod (28 February 2018)

wayneL said:


> http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/op...r/news-story/0953d3acbfac5d0e1dccff484c6397a1




Its typical of Andrew Bolt, very clever and selective from a right wing bias beyond reproach in a fascist newspaper such as our Herald Sun.

For a woman with what was against her she did as well as most others.  When you arrive at the top all is expected and there is no one to be seen as guiding.  Those of us from the lower outside are not really experienced or qualified to judge.

Abbott, now in my humble and I add, most unqualified view, there was a bl  dy rabbit


----------



## wayneL (28 February 2018)

Being a conservative doesn't preclude him having a valid opinion or making good points which he has indeed done the article

Neither is it intelligent to accuse a newspaper of being fascist at every opportunity; that is clearly not true and a particularly purulent accusation


----------



## explod (28 February 2018)

wayneL said:


> Being a conservative doesn't preclude him having a valid opinion or making good points which he has indeed done the article
> 
> Neither is it intelligent to accuse a newspaper of being fascist at every opportunity; that is clearly not true and a particularly purulent accusation



Rubbish, my wife gets the Herald Sun every day for the puzzles and I can assure you it is right wing biased rubbish.  Try to submit a counter letter on a subject to the editor and it never gets through.

"...at every opportunity" first time I recall mentioning the Herald Sun.  Anyhow, just my take and I'm often wrong as you often point out correctly Ole Pal


----------



## wayneL (28 February 2018)

explod said:


> Rubbish, my wife gets the Herald Sun every day for the puzzles and I can assure you it is right wing biased rubbish.  Try to submit a counter letter on a subject to the editor and it never gets through.



Being right wing does not make it fascist

Do you know what fascism actually is?


----------



## moXJO (28 February 2018)

Gillard was c.rap. All that praise for all the policy she got through when it was actually bureaucratic bs, that was all reversed  (thank God) once Abbott got in.
She was a large part of the scheming media setups we see today. A lot of the PC bs can be attributed to her and her faux feminism dog whistles are now prevalent in society. 

Nothing was done under her leadership apart from unions getting their way. And the worker didn't benefit. It was the head honchos. She was a schemer who was outclassed by a bigger schemer in Bill Shorten.


----------



## explod (28 February 2018)

wayneL said:


> Being right wing does not make it fascist
> 
> Do you know what fascism actually is?



Yes and to a degree you are again correct to pause on this point.   As a leftie/green my position was from a wide experience of life the very hard way to a very good position.  Because of my beginning
I've favoured the battler.  When I sit and discuss political issues I pride myself in relating to the feelings/upbringing and position of all parties.  Many people will not attempt to see the other side and if you do not agree with them outright you are a nut case.  This to me is fascism.  Mandella was the good one who taught the group to reach an agreeable consensus.


----------



## wayneL (28 February 2018)

Fyi Plod:


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism


----------



## explod (28 February 2018)

wayneL said:


> Fyi Plod:
> 
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism



Of course, if there's no spout don't tip or you'll drip


----------



## Tisme (1 March 2018)

The Gillard (good) legacies still live on. 

The major one that the LNP opposed was "Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse".

There's consumer protections too, like the PPS, financial services regulations, etc.


----------



## SirRumpole (1 March 2018)

As to whether the ALP is fit to govern, my own opinion is that they couldn't be worse than the current lot of no hopers.


----------



## Tisme (1 March 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> As to whether the ALP is fit to govern, my own opinion is that they couldn't be worse than the current lot of no hopers.




Yeah but, yeah but, nooo! They need to get some Beazleys, Keatings, Dawkins, more Albos and if they are insistent on abandoning their roots and being the Liberal Party of the 1990's then a sprinkling of Hewsons. This chasing the woman vote by stacking the seats based on gender identity hasn't worked.


----------



## SirRumpole (1 March 2018)

Tisme said:


> Yeah but, yeah but, nooo! They need to get some Beazleys, Keatings, Dawkins, more Albos and if they are insistent on abandoning their roots and being the Liberal Party of the 1990's then a sprinkling of Hewsons. This chasing the woman vote by stacking the seats based on gender identity hasn't worked.




Two yeahs to one no ! 

I think the yeahs have it.

Division required ?


----------



## Tisme (1 March 2018)

Apparently this was widely reported here


----------



## Tisme (1 March 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Two yeahs to one no !
> 
> I think the yeahs have it.
> 
> Division required ?




I was channeling Vicky Pollard (liittle Britain)


----------



## SirRumpole (1 March 2018)

Tisme said:


> Apparently this was widely reported here





Didn't certain people from the Right go and work for Trump ? Bernadi and Roberts went over I recall.


----------



## Logique (5 March 2018)

Is ALP fit to govern? Which I can't see any other outcome now.

- How much will a kWh of electricity cost once Labor takes over.
- There'll be no Adani coal mine, or any new coal or nuclear power plants.
- There'll be no reduction in company tax, so our domestic economy will suffer, as business capital is sucked out of the country.
- How porous will our national borders become. Our cities are over-crowded as it is.
- Private health insurance premiums will increase, as Labor attacks the health insurance companies

We're about to enter the Dark Ages. 

I don't mean to troll ALP voters, but I see challenging times ahead.


----------



## SirRumpole (5 March 2018)

Logique said:


> We're about to enter the Dark Ages.




And we'll all be rooned. 

Hopefully there may be fewer tax policies that rob the poor to give to the rich. (Negative gearing, company tax cuts).


----------



## Logique (6 March 2018)

Solar panels - none better at reverse wealth transfer. 

I hope I'm wrong about the future, otherwise we'll be a joust with New Venezuala across the ditch.


----------



## moXJO (6 March 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> And we'll all be rooned.
> 
> Hopefully there may be fewer tax policies that rob the poor to give to the rich. (Negative gearing, company tax cuts).



Yeah they are champions of the poor.
Like how they stiffed single mothers the last time they were in. Or how they transferred money to big builders and left the tradies broke. 

They actually put us on the path to ruin the last time they were in.


----------



## SirRumpole (6 March 2018)

moXJO said:


> Like how they stiffed single mothers the last time they were in.




And the Libs have given that money back have they ?


----------



## moXJO (6 March 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> And the Libs have given that money back have they ?



Wow thats your lowball clapback.
Why did a supposed "champion of the poor"  introduce it? 
It was opposed by the libs at the time.
The libs stopped a hell of a lot of the bs on job sites. And it will all come flooding back once labor gets in.


----------



## moXJO (6 March 2018)

Tisme said:


> The Gillard (good) legacies still live on.
> 
> The major one that the LNP opposed was "Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse".
> 
> There's consumer protections too, like the PPS, financial services regulations, etc.



This was all fluff.


----------



## Tisme (6 March 2018)

moXJO said:


> This was all fluff.




Perhaps, but it was enough for Abbott to convince the scared electorate it was end of days stuff.


----------



## SirRumpole (6 March 2018)

moXJO said:


> Wow thats your lowball clapback.




Ok then, lets fix the deficit by increasing company tax rates and watch the howls of protest from the Right.


----------



## moXJO (6 March 2018)

Tisme said:


> Perhaps, but it was enough for Abbott to convince the scared electorate it was end of days stuff.



If rudd had stuck to one or two major policies and done them well,  then he would still be in and possibly go down as one of the respected pms. He had vision but not the ability to carry it out (or his party didn't).

We have had nothing but trash since. If Albo was in as leader then I wouldn't care if labor got in. But not under Shorten.


----------



## moXJO (6 March 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> Ok then, lets fix the deficit by increasing company tax rates and watch the howls of protest from the Right.



I could care less if they did.
Wasn't it Hockey who tried to stop companies offshoring profits?


----------



## SirRumpole (6 March 2018)

moXJO said:


> Wasn't it Hockey who tried to stop companies offshoring profits?




And how far did that get ?

You hear very little discussion of company tax avoidance from the Libs these days.


----------



## Tisme (6 March 2018)

moXJO said:


> If rudd had stuck to one or two major policies and done them well,  then he would still be in and possibly go down as one of the respected pms. He had vision but not the ability to carry it out (or his party didn't).
> 
> We have had nothing but trash since. If Albo was in as leader then I wouldn't care if labor got in. But not under Shorten.




That I can't fault. However I must coach you on the barbarians at the gate who think they are worthy of the ALP crown based on gender, sexual persuasion, misandry, equity, social marxism and ethnicity....could Albo survive a concerted attack?


----------



## moXJO (6 March 2018)

Tisme said:


> That I can't fault. However I must coach you on the barbarians at the gate who think they are worthy of the ALP crown based on gender, sexual persuasion, misandry, equity, social marxism and ethnicity....could Albo survive a concerted attack?



He isn't union backed like gillard and shorten. So probably not.


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## moXJO (6 March 2018)

SirRumpole said:


> And how far did that get ?
> 
> You hear very little discussion of company tax avoidance from the Libs these days.





> The legislation I put before Parliament this morning introduces the multinational tax avoidance package to ensure major international companies operating in Australia, but booking profits offshore, have to pay tax here.
> 
> Under this new law, when we catch companies cheating, they will have to pay back double what they owe, plus interest.




http://jbh.ministers.treasury.gov.au/media-release/079-2015/

Not sure if it ever went through. The libs push through reforms on the boring crap. They streamline a lot of services and make things more efficient and easier to do business.
Thats probably all they are good at right now. 
If labor gets in then I'll be preparing to jump into whatever crazy govt scheme they come up with and profit from it. Thats what they are good at.


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## wayneL (6 March 2018)

Tax policy won't save Australian industry,  delusional stuff there. 

A couplete restructure is required,  tax,  policy,  buroeaucracy, etc. 

Aint gonna happen,  we're rogered medium term and not a single politician admits to that


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## sptrawler (6 March 2018)

I personally don't care who gets in, as long as they have a workable majority, in both houses.

I'm sick of the Country being held to ransom, by the loony fringe dwellers in the Senate.
IMO it is about time a party got in, and was in a position, to enact its own policy. At least then they can be held 100% responsible for the outcome.


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## Tisme (14 June 2018)

With and election coming up, perhaps a reminder of the last Mr Fixit Labor Govt and have they changed.

To me they (ALP) continue to be consumed by the notion they are the sheriffs of the national social conscience, although Malcolm has made a good fist of that too. 



> *Where the ALP lost its longtime supporters*
> 
> JOHN BLACK
> TheAustralian
> ...


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## SirRumpole (14 June 2018)

> *Where the ALP lost its longtime supporters
> *



*
*
Five years later and it seems the supporters are coming back again, if 60 Newspolls are any guide.


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## PZ99 (14 June 2018)

I don't think they're supporters... more like swinging voters in my view.

They usually get overlooked when analysts get overly pedantic.


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## sptrawler (15 June 2018)

Silly Billy has a good chance, because of the Steven Bradbury effect, even if Malcolm has done well he doesn't project it.
Which is a bit unfortunate, because if what I've read over here in Europe is correct.
He could actually be scoring some goals, on the NBN, either he isn't aware of the 5G upside or he is keeping it up his sleeve.
Time will tell.
But he really needs to up sell himself, because Fairfax  nor the ABC will.


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## Humid (15 June 2018)

5g lol
I live in the metro are and still can't get 4g
They'll roll it out in the major cities that already have good nbn
Go to a major event and see how ur wireless goes


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