# Federal Coalition discussion



## Joe Blow (20 February 2013)

In an attempt to stop endless new threads being started about various single issues relating to Australia's political parties, I have decided to start a few threads that are intended for the general discussion of each party. There will also be a thread started for the discussion of all minor political parties.

Please note that all previous threads will be retained and may be used for discussion if you feel that they are more appropriate. However, any new threads in which the topic is about an issue relating to one of Australia's political parties will probably be merged into one of these new threads.

If you feel that a topic about a particular political party is deserving of its own thread then please PM me and present your case.

All peripheral political issues, such as elections, inquiries, reports or anything else that does not relate specifically to one political party, may have a new thread started about it.

I will be copying this introduction into the first post of each of the new threads so it can be used as a point of reference. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

This thread is for the discussion of the Federal Coalition.


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## sptrawler (20 February 2013)

*Tony Abbott, what a top bloke*

Mr Abbott has shown what a caring member of society he is, with his volunteer firefighting and communty service.
Also I've never heard him call anyone a nasty, self serving, self centred itch. So all in all I reckon he's a good bloke.
That should start the thread on a good footing.


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## dutchie (20 February 2013)

*Re: Liberal Party of Australia discussion*


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## pilots (20 February 2013)

*Re: Liberal Party of Australia discussion*



dutchie said:


> View attachment 51044



Mate take + 10 for that post, how TRUE.


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## Calliope (20 February 2013)

*Re: Liberal Party of Australia discussion*



Joe Blow said:


> In an attempt to stop endless new threads being started about various single issues relating to Australia's political parties, I have decided to start a few threads that are intended for the general discussion of each party. There will also be a thread started for the discussion of all minor political parties.
> 
> Please note that all previous threads will be retained and may be used for discussion if you feel that they are more appropriate. However, any new threads in which the topic is about an issue relating to one of Australia's political parties will probably be merged into one of these new threads.
> 
> ...




 Joe. The Liberal Party is not the Coalition. I think it would make more sense to have one thread for the Government and one for the Coalition. 

Barnaby Joyce for instance is National Party, but he is part of the Coalition. Under your new rules a post about him would be consigned to the Minor Parties, along with the LNP and the Greens. The LNP is not a minor Party Party in Queensland.

The majority of political posts  are about Federal politics. Applicable threads would be, subject to change;

The Gillard Government 

The Abbott Opposition.

The Greens.

State Politics

Just


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## Joe Blow (20 February 2013)

*Re: Liberal Party of Australia discussion*



Calliope said:


> Joe. The Liberal Party is not the Coalition. I think it would make more sense to have one thread for the Government and one for the Coalition.
> 
> Barnaby Joyce for instance is National Party, but he is part of the Coalition. Under your new rules a post about him would be consigned to the Minor Parties, along with the LNP and the Greens. The LNP is not a minor Party Party in Queensland.
> 
> ...




Even though I agree that the majority of posts are about federal politics, these threads need to be used for the discussion of state and local politics as well. Existing threads will be retained so feel free to use them for political discussion as you see fit.

The amount of new political threads being started was becoming a real problem and it needs to be curtailed. Hopefully these new threads will help.

There is new thread for Labor, Liberal, the Nationals and the Greens with one other thread for all other minor political parties.


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## Calliope (20 February 2013)

*Re: Liberal Party of Australia discussion*



Joe Blow said:


> Even though I agree that the majority of posts are about federal politics, these threads need to be used for the discussion of state and local politics as well. Existing threads will be retained so feel free to use them for political discussion as you see fit.
> 
> The amount of new political threads being started was becoming a real problem and it needs to be curtailed. Hopefully these new threads will help.
> 
> There is new thread for Labor, Liberal, the Nationals and the Greens with one other thread for all other minor political parties.




Good luck with that.:dunno: I think that these days political discussion is all about personalities. That's why there are 58 posts with Rudd in the title.


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## Joe Blow (20 February 2013)

*Re: Liberal Party of Australia discussion*



Calliope said:


> Good luck with that.:dunno: I think that these days political discussion is all about personalities. That's why there are 58 posts with Rudd in the title.




Let's continue this discussion in the poll thread: https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26315


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## chops_a_must (6 March 2013)

*Re: Liberal Party of Australia discussion*

Lol.

Dave Tollner.


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## pilots (6 March 2013)

*Re: Liberal Party of Australia discussion*

Lets all wait and see what we get here in WA at the election.


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## chops_a_must (6 March 2013)

*Re: Liberal Party of Australia discussion*

Lol. Calling cops to a cabinet meeting?

http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2013/03/06/318292_ntnews.html

This is without doubt the worst government in Australia's history.


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## waza1960 (6 March 2013)

*Re: Liberal Party of Australia discussion*



> This is without doubt the worst government in Australia's history.




 Yes the former labor party of NSW everybody else comes a distant second


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## Garpal Gumnut (6 March 2013)

*Re: Liberal Party of Australia discussion*

Baiillieu is gorne.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/baillieu-quits-as-premier-20130306-2fk80.html

gg


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## Ves (6 March 2013)

*Re: Liberal Party of Australia discussion*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> Baiillieu is gorne.
> 
> http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/baillieu-quits-as-premier-20130306-2fk80.html
> 
> gg



More proof that the corruption on both sides of politics is rife.   Unfortunate for us hardworking souls.


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## Garpal Gumnut (6 March 2013)

*Re: Liberal Party of Australia discussion*



Ves said:


> More proof that the corruption on both sides of politics is rife.   Unfortunate for us hardworking souls.




Can you expand. I don't follow Vic politics.

gg


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## Ves (6 March 2013)

*Re: Liberal Party of Australia discussion*



Garpal Gumnut said:


> Can you expand. I don't follow Vic politics.
> 
> gg



There's a link with some info in the middle of the article you shared. Cheers.


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## chops_a_must (6 March 2013)

*Re: Liberal Party of Australia discussion*



waza1960 said:


> Yes the former labor party of NSW everybody else comes a distant second




Imma let you finish waza, but...


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## Garpal Gumnut (10 July 2013)

There should be more discussion on Coalition policies and matters.

I am heartily sick and tired of Princess Kevin's exposures, his dalliances with Shopping Centres and muggles.

*Let us turn back the boats *to a corrupt Indonesian kleptocracy who, at all levels take a cut, from this imposition on our borders.

gg


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## drsmith (10 July 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I am heartily sick and tired of Princess Kevin's exposures, his dalliances with Shopping Centres and muggles.



Don't worry GG.

Kev's bubble will burst. He won't win.


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## MrBurns (10 July 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> There should be more discussion on Coalition policies and matters.
> 
> I am heartily sick and tired of Princess Kevin's exposures, his dalliances with Shopping Centres and muggles.
> 
> ...




Welcome back gg 

The whole worlds a stage and so now is politics, the public at large only do what the TV tells them to, people like Rudd can win, wrong as it may be.

Turn the boats back for sure and man up to Indonesia because one day they might decide that we are very convenient for them to expand into.


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## Some Dude (10 July 2013)

MrBurns said:


> The whole worlds a stage and so now is politics, the public at large only do what the TV tells them to, people like Rudd can win, wrong as it may be.




You don't see the irony there with what the TV was apparently telling people a few weeks ago?


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## MrBurns (10 July 2013)

Some Dude said:


> You don't see the irony there with what the TV was apparently telling people a few weeks ago?




Effects younger people mostly, older ones can still hopefully think for themselves.
Gillard's incompetence was obvious to all, Rudds is more hidden........for now.


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## Garpal Gumnut (10 July 2013)

Some Dude said:


> You don't see the irony there with what the TV was apparently telling people a few weeks ago?






MrBurns said:


> Effects younger people mostly, older ones can still hopefully think for themselves.
> Gillard's incompetence was obvious to all, Rudds is more hidden........for now.




I'd have to agree with Some Dude there, Burnsie, KRudd is a master manipulator.

He looks at the camera, purses his lip and says something that appeals to youth. It may have nothing to do with ALP policies. But he gets away with it.

He reminds me of a dangerous nun who terrorised me as a 4 year old.

gg


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## MrBurns (10 July 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> I'd have to agree with Some Dude there, Burnsie, KRudd is a master manipulator.
> He looks at the camera, purses his lip and says something that appeals to youth. It may have nothing to do with ALP policies. But he gets away with it.
> He reminds me of a dangerous nun who terrorised me as a 4 year old.
> gg




I wasn't disagreeing.
Keating used to say, he would switch to Vaudeville.

Give Rudd a little time and he'll trip but TA cant match him in the Vaudeville stakes.


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## Garpal Gumnut (10 July 2013)

MrBurns said:


> I wasn't disagreeing.
> Keating used to say, he would switch to Vaudeville.
> 
> Give Rudd a little time and he'll trip but TA cant match him in the Vaudeville stakes.




The only input I can give in to this is that TA has more mongrel than KR.

He will fight KR who his own party hate, and have described as a psychopath.

The Australian shoppingtrolley mob have been drip fed on entitlement, and Rudd appeals to them.

I personally feel that more migrants are necessary to counter the lazy slob culture that prevails.

I do believe in Strong borders.

So, more talented migrants, let Princess Kevin KR appeal to the KMart/BigW Centrelink mob, and let the rest of us work for a better Australia.

gg


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## MrBurns (10 July 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> The only input I can give in to this is that TA has more mongrel than KR.
> 
> He will fight KR who his own party hate, and have described as a psychopath.
> 
> ...




Agree with all of that and I sincerely hope the public choose a good man over a prissy BS artist.


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## Some Dude (10 July 2013)

MrBurns said:


> Agree with all of that and I sincerely hope the public choose a good man over a prissy BS artist.




Regardless of political persuasion, any thoughts on what would be a good way to get the public at large to engage in a more substantive discussion than the political equivalent of Survivor or "Australia's Got Talent" where votes are sms'd in?


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## Garpal Gumnut (10 July 2013)

Some Dude said:


> Regardless of political persuasion, any thoughts on what would be a good way to get the public at large to engage in a more substantive discussion than the political equivalent of Survivor or "Australia's Got Talent" where votes are sms'd in?



It's a good point SD.

I find the level of education amongst native born Australians woeful.

I honestly do not believe the present "average " Australian is as educated as their counterparts outside of Australia.

An Entitlement Culture prevails, and Wayne Goss, an ALP Q Premier alluded to this.

Perhaps it is my mood. But all I see are distasteful ugly greedy grey nomads touring Australia, and spending their grandchildren's wealth, farting about in caravans, and delegating the grandkids care to "daycare", while their children chase McMansions and debt. 

So I believe in more education, more inter generational engagement and less chasing of entitlement by old farts.

gg


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## Some Dude (10 July 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> So I believe in more education, more inter generational engagement and less chasing of entitlement by old farts.




It does set a precedent doesn't it for the younger ones to follow. As we get older, we all like the moral superiority that comes with being able to point at the younger generations about some aspect that we either don't understand or dislike but it is the older ones generations that need to demonstrate and show by example.


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## Garpal Gumnut (10 July 2013)

Some Dude said:


> It does set a precedent doesn't it for the younger ones to follow. As we get older, we all like the moral superiority that comes with being able to point at the younger generations about some aspect that we either don't understand or dislike but it is the older ones generations that need to demonstrate and show by example.




Agree Sd,

In my experience most young people want to do their best, find the best mate, have kids and live the dream.

I am very much against grey nomads who abrogate their responsibilities as carers, wise persons and nurturers of their grandchildren.

So, I would be in favour of youth over these evil caravaning camry driving sloths, living for death.

gg


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## Some Dude (10 July 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> So, I would be in favour of youth over these evil caravaning camry driving sloths, living for death.




LOL... 

Perhaps more discussion like this. Again, agree or not, but provide details.



> In any event, it might be worth having a primer for those following the debate, or as a reference for later when the election campaign begins.
> 
> Let's start with the obvious.
> 
> A distinction must be made between net and gross debt. There is a nasty habit of some people starting a sentence referring to net debt and then finishing with a reference to gross debt. Words to the effect that "the Howard government left zero debt and now it is $300 billion" are an expression of such an error. Mr Abbott mixed up gross and net debt recently, but his Deputy Julie Bishop was even more extreme, saying that, "I think Australian people understand that when government debt goes from zero to heading towards $400 billion then that's an emergency." For Ms Bishop, who was shadow treasurer in 2008 and 2009, this is an embarrassing error.




Let's start dissecting some of the details beneath the slogans.


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## Garpal Gumnut (10 July 2013)

Some Dude said:


> LOL...
> 
> Perhaps more discussion like this. Again, agree or not, but provide details.
> 
> ...






I know bugger all about economics but I know people.

Many grey nomad are good and useful people visiting grandkids and helping out.

Under the ALP there is an abrogation of responsibility from the Family to the State.

I see no reason why grandparents as they always have, should not look after their grandchildren while the parents work.

The State should stay out of it.

Under the ALP,  the dissolution of the family will progress.

Coalition Policy is pro family.

gg


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## Some Dude (10 July 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Under the ALP there is an abrogation of responsibility from the Family to the State.




Can you elaborate on what you mean here? For example, my parents are in no position or location to be able to look after my kids while working so in what way does facilitating my ability to access day care not provide a net benefit i.e. I can work full time etc.


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## sptrawler (10 July 2013)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Agree Sd,
> 
> In my experience most young people want to do their best, find the best mate, have kids and live the dream.
> 
> ...




Strange take on older people gg. 
I would think a lot grey nomads, have brought up 4 kids and  have probably done without most of their lives. They probably have children who are more successful than themselves, yet you begrudge them living a dream.

Probably off topic.


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## Some Dude (10 July 2013)

sptrawler said:


> Probably off topic.




He was pulling my leg


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## sptrawler (10 July 2013)

Some Dude said:


> He was pulling my leg




Oh, my appologies for jumping in.


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## Tink (11 July 2013)

MrBurns said:


> Effects younger people mostly, older ones can still hopefully think for themselves.
> Gillard's incompetence was obvious to all, Rudds is more hidden........for now.




I think you are underestimating the young folk in this country. You would be surprised how many of them are right onto him and cant stand him. 

One of the young ladies on radio commentating was really saying her piece yesterday, how pathetic she thought he was. She said, please dont let him get in, I couldnt stand it.
She had the young ones ringing in all giving their opinions about how he is a narcissitic, power hungry man.

Everything revolves around him, and they wouldnt be surprised if he tries to put the election on his birthday, thats the type of man he is, all puff with no substance.


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## Garpal Gumnut (11 July 2013)

sptrawler said:


> Strange take on older people gg.
> I would think a lot grey nomads, have brought up 4 kids and  have probably done without most of their lives. They probably have children who are more successful than themselves, yet you begrudge them living a dream.
> 
> Probably off topic.






Some Dude said:


> He was pulling my leg






sptrawler said:


> Oh, my appologies for jumping in.




Thanks for your understanding , I was probably being a bit harsh on retirees, "living the dream".

Good on them.

I just hate caravans and think caravan drivers should be given their own track to dawdle along and leave the roads to the rest of us who have work to do.

And I apologise for taking the thread off topic.

Tony Abbott doesn't have a caravan by the way, Rudd would be your typical knob driving one. Mr.Slow speeding up at all the wrong times. 

gg

gg


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## MrBurns (11 July 2013)

Tink said:


> I think you are underestimating the young folk in this country. You would be surprised how many of them are right onto him and cant stand him.
> 
> One of the young ladies on radio commentating was really saying her piece yesterday, how pathetic she thought he was. She said, please dont let him get in, I couldnt stand it.
> She had the young ones ringing in all giving their opinions about how he is a narcissitic, power hungry man.
> ...




In retrospect you're right, they didn't like him before so it wont take long for them to reach that conclusion again.

The only question is, do they like Tony any better ? 
I hope they can see through the awkwardness and let him have a go, certainly any dysfunctional rabble under Rudd wont get us anywhere.


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## Knobby22 (11 July 2013)

MrBurns said:


> In retrospect you're right, they didn't like him before so it wont take long for them to reach that conclusion again.
> 
> The only question is, do they like Tony any better ?
> I hope they can see through the awkwardness and let him have a go, certainly any dysfunctional rabble under Rudd wont get us anywhere.




I notice Abbott has been changing emphasis, trying to be a bit less of a nay sayer but to the public (and me) he appears to be a regressive politician. Old Howard policies, old has been ministers, climate change denier etc. 

He needs to show some vision, make some forward looking statements. He will then the look like a waiting Prime Minister. That's all the Rudd is really doing. It won't take much to make him more electable than Rudd. Slogans such as "Stop the Boats", isn't going to cut it.


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## MrBurns (11 July 2013)

Knobby22 said:


> I notice Abbott has been changing emphasis, trying to be a bit less of a nay sayer but to the public (and me) he appears to be a regressive politician. Old Howard policies, old has been ministers, climate change denier etc.
> 
> He needs to show some vision, make some forward looking statements. He will then the look like a waiting Prime Minister. That's all the Rudd is really doing. It won't take much to make him more electable than Rudd. Slogans such as "Stop the Boats", isn't going to cut it.




Admittedly he doesn't present too well but I think he will stop/reduce the boats, just wait for it and as far as climate change goes, I don't think he's comfortable with Australia trying to take the lead on this, if we stopped all emissions tomorrow it wouldn't help without the rest of the world doing likewise, it needs an international approach not just country by country.


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## Knobby22 (11 July 2013)

It was more an example. He needs to be a bit progressive rather than regressive.


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## MrBurns (11 July 2013)

Knobby22 said:


> It was more an example. He needs to be a bit progressive rather than regressive.




It doesn't seem to be his style...


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## sptrawler (11 July 2013)

Knobby22 said:


> It was more an example. He needs to be a bit progressive rather than regressive.




The problem with progressive, when you have a small economy, is you can end up with non productive debt.
Sometimes it is better to build on and streamline, what already exists, than try and give birth to a whole new economy.
There is always a chance it will be still born, as is unfolding, with a lot of Labor expenditure. 
There has been minimal money invested in productive infrastructure, just increased tax base to fund increased social infrastructure and systems.

We are yet to see any explosion of new technology jobs credited to NBN, in fact we are still hearing of outsourcing overseas, in the technology sector.
We are yet to see any of the 'brown coal power stations' close, in fact they are talking about expanding the mining of it.

It all sounds great' the hype and bling' of progressive government, I'm yet to be convinced it results in better outcomes.


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## Knobby22 (11 July 2013)

Progressive means going somewhere.
For instance, he could look at how he can make the economy more efficient by ensuring Australians get world prices for gas, not the rip off prices we presently get. We export the stuff yet we charge locally extremely high prices. This caused the closure of Planet Lighting glass plant recently leading to the loss of many jobs.

Another progressive policy would be to plan some infrastructure projects to make the ports more efficient. 
Melbourne is going to choke in trucks, get the east west rail link built. (Unfortunately he has already rejected this, for no good reason I can see.)

There are plenty of progressive policies he could take up.
That's why Turnball is popular. he gives the impression he has vision.


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## Some Dude (11 July 2013)

Knobby22 said:


> Progressive means going somewhere.






			
				Wikipedia said:
			
		

> Progressivism is a general political philosophy advocating or favoring gradual social, political, and economic reform through government action. Modern Progressivism emerged as part of a more general response to the vast social changes brought by industrialization.
> 
> It is left of center in the political spectrum and is to be contrasted with conservatism on the right and the revolutionary left, the former generally resisting changes it advocates and the latter rejecting its gradualism.




Link.


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## sptrawler (11 July 2013)

Knobby22 said:


> Progressive means going somewhere.
> For instance, he could look at how he can make the economy more efficient by ensuring Australians get world prices for gas, not the rip off prices we presently get. We export the stuff yet we charge locally extremely high prices. This caused the closure of Planet Lighting glass plant recently leading to the loss of many jobs..




Agree absolutely and the government should tell the gas companies, unless they process onshore, leave it in the ground.



Knobby22 said:


> Another progressive policy would be to plan some infrastructure projects to make the ports more efficient.
> Melbourne is going to choke in trucks, get the east west rail link built. (Unfortunately he has already rejected this, for no good reason I can see.)
> .




+1 
So is Perth and take a look at Geraldton, where all the mid west iron ore is shipped through a tiny port facility in the middle of town.
You are spot on, we need to be upgrading infrastructure, before we waste money on try to beat China at manufacturing.


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## Tink (12 July 2013)

MrBurns said:


> In retrospect you're right, they didn't like him before so it wont take long for them to reach that conclusion again.
> 
> The only question is, do they like Tony any better ?
> I hope they can see through the awkwardness and let him have a go, certainly any dysfunctional rabble under Rudd wont get us anywhere.




Agree Mr Burns and here is hoping too.

Labor needs to go out and rebuild.
With no money in the coffers, unemployment getting higher, 8% in Tasmania.
For such a young country like Australia, its a worry.
I have more faith in the Lib line up than Labor.


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## basilio (12 July 2013)

Interesting story story breaking on the plot to destroy Peter Slipper as Speaker (and of course the Gilliard government).

Some might remember that when the sexual harrassment case against peter Slipper finally reached the court it was summarily thrown out by the judge.  Part of the final statement  by Judge Meres is noted in the following comments



> When Rares threw out the case against Slipper – the December 2012 decision now under appeal – he castigated Brough. Rarely do courts reproach politicians so bluntly. The judge found Ashby had not been harassed and the true purpose of bringing the case against the Speaker was political.
> 
> “Mr Ashby acted in combination with Ms Doane and Mr Brough when commencing the proceedings in order to advance the interests of the LNP and Mr Brough, the judge said, “and the evidence also established that the proceedings were an abuse of the court.”
> 
> ...




Full story on how Mal Brough torched Peter Slipper to get back into parliament can be found at ;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/12/ashbygate-peter-slipper-james-ashby


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## tech/a (12 July 2013)

Before elections there are endless---we're gunna do this
Gunna do that. Youve all heard it.
Looks great---sounds great.

Then when in power there is the Actual---what we did.
So lets look at the Labor Party pre last election and NOW-----------

Rudds at it again---pre election.
Their record stands.

Need i say more?


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## Calliope (12 July 2013)

basilio said:


> Interesting story story breaking on the plot to destroy Peter Slipper as Speaker (and of course the Gilliard government).




Nothing new here but a bit of David Marr spite.


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## basilio (12 July 2013)

Calliope said:


> Nothing new here but a bit of David Marr spite.




David is very cutting - but it was Judge Meres who threw out the Peter Slipper case as  simply a political witch hunt and and castigated Mal Brough and associates by name.

It will be interesting to see if Mal's character becomes a question during the election  campaign (or before hand) .  With the election looking like a line ball result the Libs don't need sustained attacks on individual candidates.


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## Calliope (12 July 2013)

basilio said:


> It will be interesting to see if Mal's character becomes a question during the election  campaign (or before hand) .  With the election looking like a line ball result the Libs don't need sustained attacks on individual candidates.




There are plenty of muckrakers around. But I doubt if you and Marr and The Guardian can make it stick. Brough is home and hosed in Fisher.  Low-life Slipper is well and truly despised here, as are his apologists.


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## Julia (12 July 2013)

A State issue in Qld doesn't seem to have attracted any attention here.  MPs are to be awarded huge pay increases, around 42% of their current salary.

When this was announced Premier Newman was away on holiday and Deputy Jeff Seeney asserted they had absolutely no choice in the matter, that it was a legal obligation to accept the salary increase.
What???
Who makes the legislation, Mr Seeney?

A couple of days ago Premier Newman returned to the fray and actually acknowledged that he had known about this impending rise *sixteen months ago*!  Plenty of time to have altered the legislation if they so desired.

He has now gone into damage control in the wake of outrage from the public.  The outcome of his distress remains unknown at this stage but he has generously promised an announcement on this in about three months.
Which is, of course, time for the Federal election not to be compromised by the inevitable and totally justified accusation of snouts in troughs by Liberal National members.

The Federal Labor Party cannot be blamed if they suggest similar lack of principle applies to the Federal Opposition.

What a sickening bunch they all are.

PS  Any Queenslanders prepared to spend two minutes of their time might like to protest to their local member or Central State government.  It has been shown that intense public pressure is felt.  Here is link to State Government Head Office:
http://www.thepremier.qld.gov.au/tools/contact.aspx


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## sptrawler (12 July 2013)

Obviously with Federal and State politicians giving themselves a 40% payrise, it tells where treasury thinks inflation is going.lol


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## Calliope (12 July 2013)

Julia said:


> The Federal Labor Party cannot be blamed if they suggest similar lack of principle applies to the Federal Opposition.




Only if they have clean hands.


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## springhill (15 July 2013)

A nice backhander delivered to the face of Labor & the Greens today.

After months and even years of decrying the Coalition's tow-back policy for asylum seeker boats, the Indonesian Foreign Minister comes out with this.....

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1789236/Indonesia-considers-tow-back-boats-plan

A clear sign that towing boats back is now indeed in play as part of the regional solution on asylum seekers entering Australia via the back door.

Unfortunately for Rudd he has been so anti this policy, he would look like a damn fool if he backflipped on it.

I guess we don't need the Coalition to make him look like a mug, our friends to the north are doing a fine job of that.


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## Zedd (15 July 2013)

springhill said:


> A clear sign that towing boats back is now indeed in play as part of the regional solution on asylum seekers entering Australia via the back door.
> ...
> I guess we don't need the Coalition to make him look like a mug, our friends to the north are doing a fine job of that.




I wouldn't go that far. Open for discussion providing actions are bi-lateral is far from agreeing to it. It's support for Rudd calling for bi-lateral action, while giving the opposition room to argue their solution is possible. Given the Coalition's stance on tow backs it allows for further talk, no action, and removes the need for any aggressive talk directed at Indonesia. Well played politics is all it is.

Even in the event an agreement is reached, I'd bet that it would require the asylum seekers to be on their original Indonesian vessel when they arrived back in port. Solution - they scuttle the boat as soon as an Australian vessel is within sight. Chances of Indonesia accepting asylum seekers off an Australian vessel is extremely unlikely.


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## sptrawler (15 July 2013)

Zedd said:


> I wouldn't go that far. Open for discussion providing actions are bi-lateral is far from agreeing to it. It's support for Rudd calling for bi-lateral action, while giving the opposition room to argue their solution is possible. Given the Coalition's stance on tow backs it allows for further talk, no action, and removes the need for any aggressive talk directed at Indonesia. Well played politics is all it is.
> 
> Even in the event an agreement is reached, I'd bet that it would require the asylum seekers to be on their original Indonesian vessel when they arrived back in port. Solution - they scuttle the boat as soon as an Australian vessel is within sight. Chances of Indonesia accepting asylum seekers off an Australian vessel is extremely unlikely.




We'll have to add that to the Labor Party laminated 'Asylum seeking 101' starter pack.lol


----------



## Zedd (16 July 2013)

sptrawler said:


> We'll have to add that to the Labor Party laminated 'Asylum seeking 101' starter pack.lol




Labour or Liberal, I'd say all boats will be advertised with a free axe for every customer if tow back is implemented...


----------



## springhill (16 July 2013)

Zedd said:


> I wouldn't go that far. Open for discussion providing actions are bi-lateral is far from agreeing to it. It's support for Rudd calling for bi-lateral action, while giving the opposition room to argue their solution is possible. Given the Coalition's stance on tow backs it allows for further talk, no action, and removes the need for any aggressive talk directed at Indonesia. Well played politics is all it is.
> 
> Even in the event an agreement is reached, I'd bet that it would require the asylum seekers to be on their original Indonesian vessel when they arrived back in port. Solution - they scuttle the boat as soon as an Australian vessel is within sight. Chances of Indonesia accepting asylum seekers off an Australian vessel is extremely unlikely.




No, this is a clear change in dialogue content from the Indonesians.

It has gone from 'out of the question' to the Foreign Minister actively talking about it.

The Indonesians do not mince words.

It has obviously been discussed at the highest levels.

Rudd's solution is yet another talkfest. 

Abbott has stood on his digs on this policy the whole time and the Indonesians are finally taking it seriously.

Play it down all you wish.

Thanks for your opinion regarding if Indonesians will take asylum seekers off an Australian ship, but I will wait to hear what the Indonesians have to say.


----------



## sydboy007 (16 July 2013)

springhill said:


> No, this is a clear change in dialogue content from the Indonesians.
> 
> It has gone from 'out of the question' to the Foreign Minister actively talking about it.
> 
> ...




The USA has had a tow the boats back policy for 30 years.

It's been a raging success.  Not sure why it's still running after 30 years, but it's been terribly successful in towing boats back.


----------



## springhill (16 July 2013)

sydboy007 said:


> The USA has had a tow the boats back policy for 30 years.
> 
> It's been a raging success.  Not sure why it's still running after 30 years, but it's been terribly successful in towing boats back.




Well done champ, comparing apples and oranges. 

You propose that one size fits all? 

It doesn't work elsewhere, so it can't work here, even though it has a proven history of success in Australia?

I guess a talkfest is the only solution left then.


----------



## Julia (16 July 2013)

sydboy007 said:


> The USA has had a tow the boats back policy for 30 years.
> 
> It's been a raging success.  Not sure why it's still running after 30 years, but it's been terribly successful in towing boats back.



Sarcasm duly noted.
Are you quite happy, syd, for the present, exponentially increasing influx to continue?


----------



## sydboy007 (16 July 2013)

Julia said:


> Sarcasm duly noted.
> Are you quite happy, syd, for the present, exponentially increasing influx to continue?




As i said before, this is a complex area and a one line slogan wont help

Australia already takes more refugees per capita than pretty much any other country in the world.

Far better to get other countries to increase their humanitarian intake, set up regional processing centres that can process claims quickly, and make the system work.  I know it's not a catchy slogan and takes a lot of effort, but to me it's the only way to sort this issue out.  Throw in some opening up on trade so that poor countries can actually generate economic growth and cut down on the number of economic refugees out there, and we might make some gains in solving this issue.

I fear we will put the Indonesians so off side that we will not be able to work with them.


----------



## sptrawler (16 July 2013)

sydboy007 said:


> I fear we will put the Indonesians so off side that we will not be able to work with them.




What a bit like the live cattle fiasco. 
Now Rudd is giving them $millions to set up their own cattle business, as they won't take ours.
Your selection criterea, for what constitutes upsetting the neighbors, seems party focused, not policy focused


----------



## drsmith (16 July 2013)

sydboy007 said:


> I fear we will put the Indonesians so off side that we will not be able to work with them.



I don't think that bothers a Labor government trying to make running-on-the-spot look like doing something.


----------



## sptrawler (16 July 2013)

drsmith said:


> I don't think that bothers a Labor government trying to make running-on-the-spot look like doing something.




IMO Rudd will run on the spot, rub his tummy and patt his head if Indonesia ask him to.lol

Similar to what the Greens and Independents had Gillard doing. 
We can all see where that got her, talk about a fiasco.

We were once called the 'white trash of Asia', it is starting to make some sense. Sad just very sad.


----------



## Julia (16 July 2013)

sydboy007 said:


> As i said before, this is a complex area and a one line slogan wont help
> 
> Australia already takes more refugees per capita than pretty much any other country in the world.
> 
> Far better to get other countries to increase their humanitarian intake, set up regional processing centres that can process claims quickly, and make the system work.  I know it's not a catchy slogan and takes a lot of effort, but to me it's the only way to sort this issue out.  Throw in some opening up on trade so that poor countries can actually generate economic growth and cut down on the number of economic refugees out there, and we might make some gains in solving this issue.



\
I'm sure no one will argue with that.  But it hasn't even looked like happening for now several years since Rudd dismantled Howard's successful policy.

What I'm asking you about is what should happen in the meantime?  Just let them keep coming?  Note that we now have boatloads coming from Vietnam, hardly a country in a state of mortal peril for its citizens.



> I fear we will put the Indonesians so off side that we will not be able to work with them.



You and the government together, it seems.  It's about time someone stood up to the Indonesians who are playing us for the fools that we are.


----------



## sydboy007 (26 July 2013)

So Andrew Robb now believes Australias AAA credit rating - rated stable by all 3 agencies - is not important.

Hmm.  It is important should any future Government want to borrow to build infrastructure in the future.

Strange it's no lomnger important when it was something the prvious coalition Govt used to trumpet on about.  Strange the NSW Govt thinks it's something important.  Oh wait, it IS important because those who lend money use it to determine the interest rates they will charge.

Why trash something that is inherently good for the country?  I don't have much faith in the ratings agencies, but untill the pension funds and large mutal fund companies no longer have mandates to invest in only AAA rated paper, it doesn't really what I, or Rob, think about the rating agencies.  I'm sure if one of them was looking to downgrade Australia Robb would believe it was the end of the world.

I just hope Robb will never mentions them as a positive should be be a member of a Coalition Government!


----------



## drsmith (26 July 2013)

sydboy007 said:


> Why trash something that is inherently good for the country?



After the failure of Wayne Swans's so-called delivered budget surpluses, is there now panic at the station about the revised surplus timeframe of 2015/16 ?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...-surplus-promise/story-fn59nsif-1226685248384


----------



## sydboy007 (27 July 2013)

So now Hockey says treasurey can't be trusted.

Once wonders how many staff in the department will have to be sacked for incompetence should he become treasurer.

For months he's been saying the coalition wont release policies till the PEFO is released, and now he says he wont base his policy forecasts on this.

I suppose after a coalition magically the treasury forecasts will magically become reliable again?


----------



## sptrawler (27 July 2013)

sydboy007 said:


> So now Hockey says treasurey can't be trusted.
> 
> Once wonders how many staff in the department will have to be sacked for incompetence should he become treasurer.
> 
> ...




He has got a point, it wasn't long ago, Swan was going to have a surplus. Then wasn't it revised to a slight deficit $2-3B, revised to $12B, revised to $17B, then $20B. 
Now revised by another $8B, all that in a period of 6 months, it would make planning and estimating somewhat problematic.
The change in treasury forecast, is just about equal to the forecast of the NBN install cost.

One would think stable decission making regarding policy, may flatten some of the Labor induced swings. 
MRT expected income V actual, Carbon Tax expected V actual, Live cattle export tax income V actual, Asylum seeker costs projected V actual. Income tax reciepts projected V actual.


----------



## Julia (27 July 2013)

sydboy007 said:


> So now Hockey says treasurey can't be trusted.
> 
> Once wonders how many staff in the department will have to be sacked for incompetence should he become treasurer.
> 
> ...



Mr Hockey's remarks are entirely justified imo.  Treasury forecasts have been for some time off the mark.
What we don't know is how much government may or may not be pushing them to produce what they want to hear.


----------



## sydboy007 (27 July 2013)

Julia said:


> Mr Hockey's remarks are entirely justified imo.  Treasury forecasts have been for some time off the mark.
> What we don't know is how much government may or may not be pushing them to produce what they want to hear.




Treasury has been having a problem with their forecasts for the last 8-9 years.

I'd argue it's primary due to the big changes in the terms of trade.

Treasury was way off the ball when the terms or trade were rising strongly, and the same now the tide has turned against us.

We've prob got 2-3 more years of decent falls in the ToT, so whoever is in next election is going to have to make the best of it.

By the sounds of it treasury might finally be facing up to the fact that real GDP growth has flat lined, real income growth has dropped to near zero, and I'd say per capita income growth is nigh on negative.  We had about 7 years off effortless increases in income and now we're paying a lot of it back.

The thing is, practically no other forecasters have been much better than treasury, so not sure if the Coalition will have much better forecasts.  How many in treasury are they going to have to sack now that they've declared them tainted?


----------



## Calliope (28 July 2013)

Anything William and Catherine do, we can do better 





 Kev and Therese in Afghanistan for a photo shoot.


----------



## dutchie (28 July 2013)

Calliope said:


> Anything William and Catherine do, we can do better
> 
> 
> View attachment 53589
> ...






Good to see Krudd taking care of his wife. Pity about the spare helmet or flak jacket!


----------



## Knobby22 (30 July 2013)

Warren Truss is going to be minister for infrastructure as well as deputy PM.
His plans for Infrastructure Australia sound excellent and he has a good record in government. Hopefully he will succeed in getting infrastructure planned for Australia in a successful and significant way. 

Hopefully also he can turn Abbot around on his declaration that he will give no money to urban public transport projects regardless of merit.


----------



## Country Lad (30 July 2013)

Calliope said:


> Anything William and Catherine do, we can do better
> 
> 
> View attachment 53589
> ...




Kev has the protective stuff so Therese can be the target?


----------



## Calliope (30 July 2013)

Country Lad said:


> Kev has the protective stuff so Therese can be the target?




No, that one was taken just before departure and shows Rudd's last steely eyed, well rehearsed, "make my day" Clint Eastwood look reserved for battle grounds and not school grounds. Therese is amused, she knows he is all bullsh!t.

This pic shows them arriving. I doubt if the Therese flak jacket would be of much use. They didn't have one quite big enough. I also doubt if Therese will ever again take on Joe Hockey in a race to the top of Mt Kilimanjaro.


----------



## Julia (30 July 2013)

Does anyone have any thoughts about the appropriateness or otherwise of taking his wife to Afghanistan?


----------



## Calliope (30 July 2013)

Julia said:


> Does anyone have any thoughts about the appropriateness or otherwise of taking his wife to Afghanistan?




I think he took her with him because he knows she always packs a hairdryer.



> The Alleged Hairdryer Incident
> 
> The incident was reported by Australian forces in Afghanistan to Coalition frontbencher John Cobb. Kevin Rudd vehemently denied the event ever took place.
> 
> According to the reports, the prime minister ‘threw a wobbly’ when a hairdryer could not be found for a photo opportunity. – Daily Telegraph, May 8, 2009


----------



## Zedd (30 July 2013)

Julia said:


> Does anyone have any thoughts about the appropriateness or otherwise of taking his wife to Afghanistan?




Completely inappropriate IMO. Although I don't expect the PM to be in any real danger, and assume the flak jackets are more for show, taking his wife along makes it look like a tourist adventure, verging on disrespectful to the troops. 

Not sure what the thinking was, perhaps setting up a show of a strong couple vs Abbott?


----------



## Knobby22 (30 July 2013)

Bringing his wife means he doesn't have to go the hero look with the flapjacket etc. and instead goes as the nice guy. Clever in my opinion. Leave the action man look to Abbott who does it better.


----------



## Calliope (30 July 2013)

The last nine posts are obviously off topic. Sorry, my error, I started it. I mistakenly picked the wrong discussion.


----------



## Julia (30 July 2013)

Zedd said:


> Completely inappropriate IMO. Although I don't expect the PM to be in any real danger, and assume the flak jackets are more for show, taking his wife along makes it look like a tourist adventure, verging on disrespectful to the troops.
> 
> Not sure what the thinking was, perhaps setting up a show of a strong couple vs Abbott?



Mr Abbott could equally cart his wife and daughters along for every photo shoot, I suppose.  That wouldn't make it appropriate.  This imo is yet another example of Mr Rudd's desire for publicity overriding his common sense, if he has any.
Agree entirely with your comment above.


----------



## wayneL (15 October 2021)

Switzer encapsulates why I will probably never vote  for the liberal party ever again... Ever.


----------



## wayneL (2 November 2021)

Another defection from LNP to LDP


----------



## wayneL (3 November 2021)

Our ”prime minister".


----------



## Craton (23 May 2022)

So the coalition has lost the 2022 election, ScoMo stepping down, ex-treasurer Josh concedes and BJ holds his seat. So many questions now for the "COA".
Number one being, will Dutton be endorsed as the new Liberal leader?


----------



## sptrawler (23 May 2022)

Craton said:


> So the coalition has lost the 2022 election, ScoMo stepping down, ex-treasurer Josh concedes and BJ holds his seat. So many questions now for the "COA".
> Number one being, will Dutton be endorsed as the new Liberal leader?



Well if you're going to have a disaster, you may as well go all in. 😂


----------



## PZ99 (24 May 2022)

Craton said:


> So the coalition has lost the 2022 election, ScoMo stepping down, ex-treasurer Josh concedes and BJ holds his seat. So many questions now for the "COA".
> Number one being, will Dutton be endorsed as the new Liberal leader?



Well he'll definitely go for it. He nearly lost his seat so becoming leader should make it safer.


----------



## Craton (24 May 2022)

PZ99 said:


> Well he'll definitely go for it. He nearly lost his seat so becoming leader should make it safer.



Yep, coz he's so sociable and relatable with the common folk, oh, and well liked Australia wide and in the Pacific too...

Just a guess and my own POV but seems most of the COA suffer from the "Shorten Syndrome" although Michaelia has bit of spunk. I also reckon that when the knives were out and Australia lost one of it's best foreign ministers in Julie Bishop, the down hill spiral had already started.

Having Labor shooting themselves in the foot by backing Bill simply delayed the impending COA crash and boy, after hearing that ScoMo will change his spots if he won again, what a beauty it's been!


----------



## PZ99 (24 May 2022)

Dutton will probably be the sacrificial lamb until they get closer to the next election and then put Ms Cash up to regain WA seats. That's an option.

As for ScoMo one is curious whether he stays in the parliament. He was an effective treasurer so maybe a credible opposition to Labor in that portfolio.

What about the Nats ? Bridget McKenzie has been effective despite the sports rorts. Can't see Barnaby Joyce leadership lasting long.

Ohhh look... money >


----------



## Craton (24 May 2022)

That sounds plausible.


----------



## wayneL (24 May 2022)

What does COA stand for?


----------



## Knobby22 (24 May 2022)

PZ99 said:


> Dutton will probably be the sacrificial lamb until they get closer to the next election and then put Ms Cash up to regain WA seats. That's an option.
> 
> As for ScoMo one is curious whether he stays in the parliament. He was an effective treasurer so maybe a credible opposition to Labor in that portfolio.
> 
> ...



To be fair on Dutton, he won't be as unpopular as people think.
ScoMo had a real women problem, they disliked him immensely as represented in the polling.  Dutton doesn't have that baggage. 

Also everyone who knows Dutton well likes him while with ScoMo most of his colleagues hated him.


----------



## wayneL (24 May 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> To be fair on Dutton, he won't be as unpopular as people think.
> ScoMo had a real women problem, they disliked him immensely as represented in the polling.  Dutton doesn't have that baggage.
> 
> Also everyone who knows Dutton well likes him while with ScoMo most of his colleagues hated him.



Leftists hate him with a visceral passion, which may actually be a good thing for the Liberals.

I have always used him as too much of an authoritarian for my own personal ideology.... I'm not sure that Dutton could ever bring me back into the Liberal fold... As much as there are others that could do so.

In my opinion the first order of business should be to get rid of Matt Kean, by any means, whether legal or illegal


----------



## Knobby22 (24 May 2022)

wayneL said:


> Leftists hate him with a visceral passion, which may actually be a good thing for the Liberals.
> 
> I have always used him as too much of an authoritarian for my own personal ideology.... I'm not sure that Dutton could ever bring me back into the Liberal fold... As much as there are others that could do so.
> 
> In my opinion the first order of business should be to get rid of Matt Kean, by any means, whether legal or illegal



Matt Kean is NSW. So not part of the federal picture is he?


----------



## wayneL (24 May 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> Matt Kean is NSW. So not part of the federal picture is he?



Yes I know, but is emblematic of the ideological cancer afflicting and threatening the survival of the Liberal Party.


----------



## Knobby22 (25 May 2022)

This is an excellent article.
You can see how the some of the strange political decisions got made (or didn't get made) that got them kicked out e.g. alienating Chinese voters, West Australia, women, treating Sydney's West like its USA red Republican territory etc.










						A Liberal Party guided by right-wing commentators is in serious trouble
					

Hardline Coalition MPs and columnists are pushing a narrative that goes like this: the Morrison government positioned itself as “Labor-lite” and lost as a result.




					www.theage.com.au


----------



## rederob (25 May 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> This is an excellent article.
> You can see how the some of the strange political decisions got made (or didn't get made) that got them kicked out e.g. alienating Chinese voters, West Australia, women, treating Sydney's West like its USA red Republican territory etc.
> 
> 
> ...



A more interesting feature of this election is that LNP preferences to Labor ahead of the Greens is likely to get Labor the 76 seats they need to have a majority in the House.

It raises the question of whether or not the NLP should in future preference Teal so that a potentially hung Parliament at least has non-LNP members who share some policies and might even deal them "Supply" ahead of Labor under such a scenario.


----------



## Craton (25 May 2022)

wayneL said:


> What does COA stand for?



COAlition


----------



## wayneL (25 May 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> This is an excellent article.
> You can see how the some of the strange political decisions got made (or didn't get made) that got them kicked out e.g. alienating Chinese voters, West Australia, women, treating Sydney's West like its USA red Republican territory etc.
> 
> 
> ...



Julie Szego is a leftist and married to an ex Labor Party member of Parliament. As such, this view is not surprising and is completely wide of the mark as far as real-world Liberal voters are concerned.


----------



## Knobby22 (26 May 2022)

Dave Sharma makes some good points, I have edited the letter to make it a lot shorter:

To lose one Liberal heartland seat could be attributed to misfortune. To lose several, and across multiple states, is a disaster.

Affluent, well-educated and progressive, they have been strongholds of the Liberal Party for decades. They have produced its senior leadership, underwritten its fundraising and provided much of its membership.

It’s a bloodbath of sizeable proportion. And if we ever wish to return to the government benches, it is incumbent upon us to learn the lessons of this defeat.

The Liberals must recreate the ‘‘broad church’’ envisaged by Menzies.

 The British Conservatives after Tony Blair won in a landslide in 1997 shifted to the right, with policies centred around law and order, immigration and ‘‘tough on crime’’ rhetoric. They lost successive elections to Blair. It was only when David Cameron became leader and consciously went about shedding the Conservatives’ ‘‘nasty’’ image that they became once more electable.

We did not lose any seats to our right. We lost them entirely to our left. And if we are to regain government, we will need to regain the political centre. This does not require an abandonment of our ideological core. Small government, less regulation, support for business and free enterprise, a commitment to individual rights and freedoms, and robust defence and national security remain our most valuable offerings.

I support the two-party system, but it appears the electorate will not stomach the rigidities and compromises that come with it. Our future may well be German-style ‘‘traffic light’’ coalitions of parties to form government. If that is the way the winds are blowing, we should position ourselves for it.


----------



## wayneL (26 May 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> Dave Sharma makes some good points, I have edited the letter to make it a lot shorter:
> 
> To lose one Liberal heartland seat could be attributed to misfortune. To lose several, and across multiple states, is a disaster.
> 
> ...



But see a lot of voters were lost because the government went too far to the left.

Headlines seats lost were because the inner-city trendies have all moved to the left, because they have been sold on climate change and na monumental hypocrisy, want to virtue signal to their rich mates in their Toorak mansions.

I mean just look at the bloke at the wef bragging about apps that will track people's carbon footprint... The owner of a truly massive yacht. Fucken disgusting. Carbon austerity is only for the plebeians and not for the so-called elite.

This is reflected across the anglosphere.

Chasing those voters will ensure the hemorrhaging of their base... They will certainly never get me back nor ex liberal voters that I associate with... nor the egregious virtue signalling hypocrites.


----------



## greggles (26 May 2022)

wayneL said:


> But see a lot of voters were lost because the government went too far to the left.
> 
> Headlines seats lost were because the inner-city trendies have all moved to the left, because they have been sold on climate change and na monumental hypocrisy, want to virtue signal to their rich mates in their Toorak mansions.
> 
> ...




The votes that were lost from the Liberals went to the ALP, the Greens or left leaning independents. If votes were lost because the government went too far to the left we would see an increase in votes for parties and independents to the right of the Liberals in those seats that were lost. This did not happen.

Social conservatism in any form is on the nose. Woke is in, moral fuddy duddies are out. The Liberals may have lost some of their "base" but they lost more moderates to the left. There is little difference between the ALP and the Liberals on the economy any more, so people are voting on issues of conscience and personalities.

This election was decided by women and those under 30.


----------



## basilio (26 May 2022)

wayneL said:


> But see a lot of voters were lost because the government went too far to the left.
> 
> Headlines seats lost were because the inner-city trendies have all moved to the left, because they have been sold on climate change and na monumental hypocrisy, want to virtue signal to their rich mates in their Toorak mansions.
> 
> ...



Not recognising that human caused CC is real and must be addressed at many levels just makes politicians look like ideological basket cases. I appreciate that Wayne has his own particular interpretation of this fact but the facts on the ground now demand action not dismissal and  unrelated ad hominem attacks

What sort of action ? Immense but political parties can't take serious steps without an agreement on the reality of the situation. This was the core of the TEAL success.  The candidates all had CC and a real response as the head of their policy. They were challenging a Government that was hamstrung by its own members on the issue. It had to change or go.


----------



## greggles (26 May 2022)

The idea of the Greens taking a seat away from the LNP would have been the stuff of science fiction prior to this election, but it's going to happen in the seat of Brisbane. Out of the 9.5% the LNP lost, 7.6% of it went to the ALP and the Greens.


----------



## Knobby22 (26 May 2022)

wayneL said:


> But see a lot of voters were lost because the government went too far to the left.



That is rubbish. Where did they go left? Greggles called it above.

As Sharma implied, the Libs don't need to go left or right to win the next election.   Just don't piss off your natural supporters.

Don't do dog whistling -picking on minorities, gays cross-genders, religion, the Chinese ship on WA. Sure it works in the USA but it doesn't work here. We are all over it and wise to it. The only people it works on are already voting for Palmer and Hanson.

Make policies that mean something e.g. their climate policy (wink wink everyone it means nothing); Why couldn't they come up with a plan?? It doesn't have to match Labor. just a basic plan. Laziness.

If you are going to go nuts on China with megaphone diplomacy, don't expect exporters who now can't sell wine and lobster to support you. Also don't be surprised if your Chinese born supporters (who are mostly small business owners) change sides.  Ever heard of diplomacy?

Don't be dodgy. The ICAC stuff up was completely self inflicted.  Right wing Liberals  voting teal because they wanted action on the internal corruption within the Libs.

Don't follow right wing woke agendas leave that stuff for the fringe parties.e.g. WA freedom crap.

Select decent candidates. e.g. The independent that beat Kristina Keneally was selected to be in the Liberal Senate but they backstabbed her at the last minute and gave it to  a white bloke whom no one had ever heard of and she quit the Libs in disgust.  Now she is back as an independent and can get revenge- crazy!

.


----------



## greggles (27 May 2022)

Just one final comment on this. Morrison is probably the worst PM in generations. He didn't deserve to win, neither did the LNP in general. It was time for a change.

What sealed it for me was Morrison blowing $90 billion on non-existent submarines and then refusing to back a $1 an hour pay rise for Australia's lowest paid workers (the ones that kept this country moving during COVID) amid rampant inflation. That made him look like an epic, out-of-touch cnut. I could not support such a person politically knowing that it would just be another three years of more of the same.


----------



## moXJO (27 May 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> That is rubbish. Where did they go left? Greggles called it above.
> 
> As Sharma implied, the Libs don't need to go left or right to win the next election.   Just don't piss off your natural supporters.
> 
> ...



It honestly makes you wonder how sheltered the majority of these dckheads in politics are.

Flying in party members to "safe" multicultural seats is over. Why parties think sticking a whitey in a multicultural seat. When you have a member right there that ticks all the boxes. Well it stinks a bit of paybacks and corrupt process.


----------



## wayneL (27 May 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> That is rubbish. Where did they go left? Greggles called it above.
> 
> As Sharma implied, the Libs don't need to go left or right to win the next election.   Just don't piss off your natural supporters.
> 
> ...



I can agree with a number of your points, Knobby, But that in no way means that they have shifted to the right and it is interesting that since you have posted this the only 2 likes you received are from our resident extreme leftists.

However it is a fact at Liberal Party instituted ipso facto mmt and vastly expanded the welfare state. So and it to the identitarians in society, pandering to people who would never vote for them.

Worst of all, they have embraced the wef agenda.

None of this is moving to the right, and the reason that they have alienated their base is because of these moves to the left.

This is all in addition to the dumb shyte that you and others have highlighted above.


----------



## wayneL (27 May 2022)

moXJO said:


> It honestly makes you wonder how sheltered the majority of these dckheads in politics are.
> 
> Flying in party members to "safe" multicultural seats is over. Why parties think sticking a whitey in a multicultural seat. When you have a member right there that ticks all the boxes. Well it stinks a bit of paybacks and corrupt process.



I was just listening to Carmen Lawrence on 6PR and she made some excellent points along the same lines. In particular how the teal candidates were selected on a community basis (notwithstanding Simon HoC's involvement), rather than the top-down/captains pick style of candidate selection of the major parties.


----------



## SirRumpole (27 May 2022)

wayneL said:


> None of this is moving to the right, and the reason that they have alienated their base is because of these moves to the left.




I can't really detect any move to the 'Left' from the Libs, unless you are talking about paying Jobkeeper during the pandemic.

In fact, criticising Andrews and McGowan for their pandemic lockdowns cost them dearly in Vic and WA.

And not supporting a rise in the minimum wage at a time of rising costs is pretty blatant Thatcherism.

So where is the move to the Left by the LNP ?


----------



## sptrawler (27 May 2022)

Personally I think everyone is reading way too much into it, Morrison didn't win the 2019 election Shorten lost it, if Labor had presented a reasonable platform they would have been in office laready.
The coalition was well past its use by date, but still polled more primary votes than Labor, having said that both primary votes are at all time lows.
People voted for a change because it was time for a change, the biggest shock was how many didn't vote for either major party IMO.
So really Albo has to give a good account of himself this term in office, or it could turn really ugly next election, especially if the Labor/ Coalition support continues to erode.
The Cities voted the Government in and they may be the first to feel any financial pain, as they are the ones who are hocked up to the eyeballs.
It should make for a very interesting times, when the ones who can afford inflation, only live kilometers away from those who can't.


----------



## wayneL (27 May 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> I can't really detect any move to the 'Left' from the Libs, unless you are talking about paying Jobkeeper during the pandemic.
> 
> In fact, criticising Andrews and McGowan for their pandemic lockdowns cost them dearly in Vic and WA.
> 
> ...



Well, it's curious.

All those on the right think the liberal party moved to the left and all those on the left think the liberal party moved to the right.

I know that I consider myself centre/centre right and in no way did the current Liberal Party represent me.


----------



## sptrawler (27 May 2022)

wayneL said:


> Well, it's curious.
> 
> All those on the right think the liberal party moved to the left and all those on the left think the liberal party moved to the right.
> 
> I know that I consider myself centre/centre right and in no way did the current Liberal Party represent me.



I think everyone is confused, because there as so many mixed messages, McGowan is Labor and really popular and he is a clone of Barnett.
A huge amount of money has been thrown out the window Federally, as social welfare and everyone is complaining, mainly due to the lack of warm feel good stuff like reducing fossil fuel usage and exports faster.
So is welfare the pressing issue, or climate action, obviously by the result and the rhetoric climate action is what is most important.

So now we have the elites ringing in change, which basically is demanding a reduction in fossil fuel usage and exports, so no doubt that will be given priority.
I for one am looking forward to the acceleration, of both the reduction in fossil fuel usage and the banning of it being exported.

It was interesting that Penny Wong gave Australia a spray for not doing more to reduce global warming, when it threatens our Pacific partners and hopes they will forgive us and we promise to do more.
Yet at the same time they are embracing China, who are committed to building 100 new coal fired stations, maybe she needs to speak to her audience.
I don't think for one minute, that the poor Pacific nations are going to put climate change ahead of their poverty, like we have IMO.

I think it is great to try and ingratiate ourselves, but we do need to use enticements that they are interested in IMO.

Time will tell, but IMO Australia has finally become affluent enough, to put environmental issues ahead of social and welfare which is a good sign IMO.
Interesting times ahead.


----------



## Smurf1976 (28 May 2022)

sptrawler said:


> The Cities voted the Government in and they may be the first to feel any financial pain, as they are the ones who are hocked up to the eyeballs.



The trouble with cities is that they're a stark representation of society living side by side.

Those who live with at least some grasp of reality versus those in a bubble.

Those who actually do care about what happens to others versus those who don't.

And so on. 

The harsh reality of inflation driven by scarcity isn't that it leads to some going without. No, it's that it _requires_ some to go without in order to bring consumption down to match supply. That goes for anything from food to fuel.

There's an awful lot of pain coming for the lower half sadly and nothing will avoid it now.


----------



## sptrawler (28 May 2022)

Smurf1976 said:


> The harsh reality of inflation driven by scarcity isn't that it leads to some going without. No, it's that it _requires_ some to go without in order to bring consumption down to match supply. That goes for anything from food to fuel.
> 
> There's an awful lot of pain coming for the lower half sadly and nothing will avoid it now.



Absolutely, I think everyone should get ready for some shocking realities, hopefully it isn't as bad as we think it will be.
It will be better when we come out the other side of this change, the question is, how painful will the journey be?









						Greens have mandate to stop new oil and gas projects: Bandt tells Labor
					

A significant number of voters backed the Greens or independents who called for stronger action on climate change – and Adam Bandt says Labor needs to recognise it.




					www.smh.com.au


----------



## SirRumpole (28 May 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Absolutely, I think everyone should get ready for some shocking realities, hopefully it isn't as bad as we think it will be.
> It will be better when we come out the other side of this change, the question is, how painful will the journey be?
> 
> 
> ...




You would think we would be ok for food, we are always being told we produce enough for 70 million.

If there are food shortages in Australia then there is something seriously wrong with our production capabilities, politics , supply line logistics etc that need to be rectified.


----------



## SirRumpole (28 May 2022)

David Littleproud will have a crack at the Nats leadership.

He's the way of the future for the Nats imo, Barnaby is past his use by date.









						David Littleproud declares he will challenge Barnaby Joyce for National party leadership
					

Deputy Nationals leader David Littleproud confirms he will try to topple Barnaby Joyce as leader when the party meets in Canberra on Monday.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## Knobby22 (5 June 2022)

Dutton has put 10 women is shadow cabinet!
I think have only 13 women  total in Parliament in the lower house so good for that sex in relation to  their career.

Better than Abbott who had none except Bishop but his excuse was that they weren't up to it except Mirabelli who famously lost her seat.

It is the female  rather than the male vote that has really dropped away for the Libs, so this is a first step.


----------



## Knobby22 (5 June 2022)

Just to add 35% of women put the Liberals first vs 45% of men.


----------



## Eager (5 June 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> Dutton has put 10 women is shadow cabinet!
> I think have only 13 women  total in Parliament in the lower house so good for that sex in relation to  their career.



It suggests tokenism to me.

Still, it might encourage far more women to apply for preselection, if only they could then get past the pompous Old Boys Club to gain candidacy, then hopefully win.

I'm all for quotas. The argument about merit is stupid, considering the far greater % of male politicians who have disgraced themselves either by playing up or by being proven to be incompetent over the years compared to their female counterparts.


----------



## moXJO (5 June 2022)

Eager said:


> I'm all for quotas. The argument about merit is stupid, considering the far greater % of male politicians who have disgraced themselves either by playing up or by being proven to be incompetent over the years compared to their female counterparts.



I'd prefer merit. Unfortunately the selection criteria seems to be the problem. Quotas just fill the void with an equal number of idiots between the sexes.


----------



## wayneL (5 June 2022)

Eager said:


> I'm all for quotas. The argument about merit is stupid, considering the far greater % of male politicians who have disgraced themselves either by playing up or by being proven to be incompetent over the years compared to their female counterparts.



That's the antithesis of merit then, innit?

Don't mix up a meritocracy with cronyism... of which a sex based quota system is, _ipso facto_.


----------



## Eager (5 June 2022)

wayneL said:


> That's the antithesis of merit then, innit?
> 
> Don't mix up a meritocracy with cronyism... of which a sex based quota system is, _ipso facto_.



No worries, and I'm sure you would agree, if only 13 of the 58 were men, then that would be okay with you.

it's not going to happen though is it? Why? Because being an MP in the Liberal party is an extremely unattractive proposition for a woman.


----------



## wayneL (5 June 2022)

Eager said:


> No worries, and I'm sure you would agree, if only 13 of the 58 were men, then that would be okay with you.
> 
> it's not going to happen though is it? Why? Because being an MP in the Liberal party is an extremely unattractive proposition for a woman.



Bit a non-sequitur there, old bean. Perhaps even a straw man fallacy.

If the best person for the job is a man, so be it. If the best person is a woman, so be it.

If the best "person" is Pavlov's @#$&ing dog, then I'm happy with that too.

The internal machinations of the Liberal party do not form a part of my point; indeed goes partly to my point of cronyism.


----------



## sptrawler (5 June 2022)

moXJO said:


> I'd prefer merit. Unfortunately the selection criteria seems to be the problem. Quotas just fill the void with an equal number of idiots between the sexes.



Yes it is interesting, what happens if you are fortunate to have 80% of your top team highly qualified, but you can only chose 50% of them because of quotas.
It would be interesting at the moment, if the minister who missed out because of their gender, was a power system engineer. 🤣
Imagine the quandary, "Look I know they are a professor of physics and has a double degree, but quotas say we have to have the fast food manager as minister for energy".  🤪 

The real travesty IMO, is that their isn't an aptitude test for preselection, I know there was in my last job. 

Politicians don't even have to do a medical as far as I'm aware, yet they are held up as the best Australia has to offer, ironic eh.


----------



## IFocus (5 June 2022)

At this stage of the game quotas are fine given merit isn't a criteria for getting preselected never has been  all it means is a female is preselected instead of a male, most of the Teals would have been Liberals how did that work out?

As Dutton is the best the Liberals can find for a leader it doesn't say much for the Liberal male MP's.


----------



## moXJO (5 June 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Yes it is interesting, what happens if you are fortunate to have 80% of your top team highly qualified, but you can only chose 50% of them because of quotas.
> It would be interesting at the moment, if the minister who missed out because of their gender, was a power system engineer. 🤣
> Imagine the quandary, "Look I know they are a professor of physics and has a double degree, but quotas say we have to have the fast food manager as minister for energy".  🤪
> 
> ...



Yes. The "highly qualified" part seems to be missing from the equation when it comes to politicians.


----------



## sptrawler (5 June 2022)

moXJO said:


> Yes. The "highly qualified" part seems to be missing from the equation when it comes to politicians.



That part is missing from Australian society at the moment, imagine when you have to call back a PM from holidays, to sort out bushfires, jezzus what a mess. 🤣 
What are you paying the State minister of Fire and emergency services for? And who answers to them, then who answers to them.
Yet obviously they are all fcking useless if the PM is on holidays. 🤪 

Australia what a bastion of getting $hit done. what a hoot, I hope all this nonsense stops now the media has flipped the Govt, it would be terrible to see it carry on again IMO.


----------



## SirRumpole (5 June 2022)

sptrawler said:


> That part is missing from Australian society at the moment, imagine when you have to call back a PM from holidays, to sort out bushfires, jezzus what a mess. 🤣
> What are you paying the State minister of Fire and emergency services for? And who answers to them, then who answers to them.
> Yet obviously they are all fcking useless if the PM is on holidays. 🤪




None of that.

The PM is the top job and he/she has to see first hand what the public is going through during a natural disaster so as to allocate resources properly as well as let people know that the government cares.

Ok , so it's a figurehead type position , but that's what they are paid for.


----------



## sptrawler (6 June 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> None of that.
> 
> The PM is the top job and he/she has to see first hand what the public is going through during a natural disaster so as to allocate resources properly as well as let people know that the government cares.
> 
> Ok , so it's a figurehead type position , but that's what they are paid for.



The sad part is IMO, all the next PM's will be burnt on the same cross, absolutely infantile IMO.
If they have to be there to allocate resources in natural disasters, what the hell are we paying the minister's, the State ministers and the heads of those departments for.
Absolutely absurd IMO.
I'm not on a computer, but tomorrow I will check out the early 1980 fires near Lorne and the fired during Rudd's term and check the responses, as to Federal help.


----------



## PZ99 (6 June 2022)

moXJO said:


> I'd prefer merit. Unfortunately the selection criteria seems to be the problem. Quotas just fill the void with an equal number of idiots between the sexes.



Agreed. + Quotas lead to apparent favourtism. The ALP just learned the hard way that merit is a better proposition for winning seats.


----------



## Smurf1976 (6 June 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Yes it is interesting, what happens if you are fortunate to have 80% of your top team highly qualified, but you can only chose 50% of them because of quotas.
> It would be interesting at the moment, if the minister who missed out because of their gender, was a power system engineer. 🤣



Suffice to say I know quite a few women who'd be outright furious if they thought they'd been selected to fill a quota. That includes engineers.

I'm 100% on side with stopping discrimination against anyone based on race, gender and so on but at the same time, there are plenty of women more than capable of getting there on legitimate merit so long as it's an actually level playing field.


----------



## IFocus (6 June 2022)

Smurf1976 said:


> so long as it's an actually level playing field.




In my time never seen it, worked with large numbers of engineers across a few disciplines ( Elect, Mech, Process, Risk, Software) nearly half were women and If I wanted something clever done usually went to the girls, most of the top jobs went to the boys and or they were paid higher salaries.

I do believe salaries have been addressed and there are now more women in senior roles but it has been a long road.


----------



## Smurf1976 (6 June 2022)

IFocus said:


> I do believe salaries have been addressed and there are now more women in senior roles but it has been a long road.



I certainly wouldn't deny that discrimination on the basis of race, gender and other attributes has been a very real issue in the past and isn't extinct thus far.

If I was tasked with eliminating it though well then I wouldn't do it by setting and filling quotas since it's inevitable that leads to less than desirable outcomes. At best it's patching over the cracks.

Get to the base of the problem and a lot of issues do come down to bullying and the entire culture that goes with it. That's the real thing the Coalition, and others, needs to stamp out. Suffice to say the public airing of what goes on at parliament house is, from what I've been told by credible sources, just the tip of the iceberg.


----------



## Knobby22 (7 June 2022)

The bias is unconscious.
In the book Blink (recommended by our resident little black duck #tech/a) -Orchestras used to be nearly all men as they were considered better particularly with brass and wind. It wasn't until they started holding blind auditions behind curtains that women started winning these spots.

That is why you need some form of advantage such as quotas.

Professional women and women in management positions who deal with this bias every day are not voting Liberal. Almost to a man (sic) and they are not getting selected when they try to become an mp.

E.g. despite being pro female in Victoria only 4 of the 23 mps in the lower house are women.


----------



## Knobby22 (7 June 2022)

Talking state mps above.
Only one female Victorian mp at Federal level.  Zoe McKenzie.
First term. Held seat well


----------



## sptrawler (7 June 2022)

It would certainly be interesting for someone to do a study, into the percentage of men and women actively involved, in pursuing a career in politics at the rank and file level.
Most ot the women in my circle of family and friends, aren't interested in politics at a conversation level, let alone actively pursuing a career in it.
However I find men in the same group discuss and argue over politics with great enthusiasm, so if for example a study found as a percentage there is an 80/20 bias toward men wanting a career in politics, wouldn't that be reflected to some extent in the numbers in office?
IMO it is a bit like comparing the number of men Vs women in any careers, I worked in the trades and there were far more males than females worked in them, however every girl that applied for an apprenticeship actually obtained one, that was the case in all the heavy industries I worked in.
Just a thought.


----------



## SirRumpole (7 June 2022)

sptrawler said:


> It would certainly be interesting for someone to do a study, into the percentage of men and women actively involved, in pursuing a career in politics at the rank and file level.
> Most ot the women in my circle of family and friends, aren't interested in politics at a conversation level, let alone actively pursuing a career in it.
> However I find men argue over politics with great enthusiasm, so if for example a study found as a percentage there is an 80/20 bias toward men wanting a career in politics, wouldn't that be reflected to some extent in the numbers in office?
> IMO it is a bit like comparing the number of men Vs women in any careers, I worked in the trades and there were far more males than females worked in them, however every girl that applied for an apprenticeship actually obtained one, that was the case in all the heavy industries I worked in.
> Just a thought.




Very good point.

I saw a report the other day that female aged care workers wanted more men in that industry because of the heavy lifting involved !

And all the fems were saying that women can do anything men do. 

Some people should take a reality check, men and women are sometimes interested in different things, you can't expect equal numbers in every area.


----------



## sptrawler (7 June 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> Very good point.
> 
> I saw a report the other day that female aged care workers wanted more men in that industry because of the heavy lifting involved !
> 
> ...



That is exactly the same issue, my wife worked as an RN in aged care and it is true what they say about the lifting, but it is also true that women have more of a caring nature. The wife enjoyed working there, because she felt she was making those older people's lives better, in a small way.
Would she want to work on the tools in a Powers Station, No,  as simple as that.
Would I want to work in an aged care facility? Be a teacher in a primary school?  Be a nurse? No.
Everyone to their own IMO, it is hard enough getting the right people into jobs, who want to do them because of the love of it.
Without pushing those who don't want to do the job, or aren't proficient enough to do the job, into them IMO.
I would rather see an aptitude, psychological and background check done, prior to anyone entering politics.  😂


----------



## Smurf1976 (8 June 2022)

sptrawler said:


> IMO it is a bit like comparing the number of men Vs women in any careers, I worked in the trades and there were far more males than females worked in them, however every girl that applied for an apprenticeship actually obtained one, that was the case in all the heavy industries I worked in.
> Just a thought.



I used to be on the interview panel for electrical apprenticeships in a government organisation.

Long story short, males accounted for the overwhelming majority of applicants so it's no surprise they accounted for the majority of those who were successful.

It's a reality that gender stereotypes are still rife in society and that goes for both genders.


----------



## wayneL (8 June 2022)

Smurf1976 said:


> I used to be on the interview panel for electrical apprenticeships in a government organisation.
> 
> Long story short, males accounted for the overwhelming majority of applicants so it's no surprise they accounted for the majority of those who were successful.
> 
> It's a reality that gender stereotypes are still rife in society and that goes for both genders.



Gender isn't a stereotype, it's a biological reality, even if there is a substantive overlap.

Take my job for instance. There are some woman in it, and some that do a damned good job of it too. But there will never be more than about 10%, no matter how the social engineers try to pretend we are all equal.

Most girls that try just physically break down.


----------



## moXJO (8 June 2022)

They employed a female apprentice at my sons work as an apprentice electrician.

Terrible worker  who the company and other employees bent over backwards to try and accommodate.
Caused problems,  then left to go get knocked up  her bf without saying she quit.

I agree with Waynes aassessment that it's a small % that will fit the role and do well in.


----------



## Knobby22 (11 June 2022)

Scomo believes there is a marketing solution to every problem. Personally I think that the party needs to go back to what it used to stand for which is not high spending, look after big business in front of small business Republican style tactics.


----------



## SirRumpole (11 June 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> Scomo believes there is a marketing solution to every problem. Personally I think that the party needs to go back to what it used to stand for which is not high spending, look after big business in front of small business Republican style tactics.
> View attachment 142774



The reason he lost is because people  are sick of marketing tricks and want a genuine government that will solve problems.

Morrison and his lot need to be out at least two terms to change the laundry and regain trust.

Dutton is not the man for the job with his bull headed approach.


----------



## sptrawler (11 June 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> The reason he lost is because people  are sick of marketing tricks and want a genuine government that will solve problems.
> 
> Morrison and his lot need to be out at least two terms to change the laundry and regain trust.
> 
> Dutton is not the man for the job with his bull headed approach.



The reason he lost IMO, is because people think the opposition will give them a better deal, time will tell.


----------



## PZ99 (11 June 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> The reason he lost is because people  are sick of marketing tricks and want a genuine government that will solve problems.
> 
> Morrison and his lot need to be out at least two terms to change the laundry and regain trust.
> 
> Dutton is not the man for the job with his bull headed approach.



Dutton should give Labor 3 terms but then again I said the same thing about Abbott


----------



## wayneL (11 June 2022)

sptrawler said:


> The reason he lost IMO, is because people think the opposition will give them a better deal, time will tell.



Personal opinion: It shouldn't be the government's job to give us a "deal". This is the problem with democracy and why the irrevocable path is to self destruction.

The job of the government should be restricted to maintaining Law and order protecting borders, provide infrastructure and a *basic* safety net, and to stay out of our f****** lives and let us create.


----------



## sptrawler (12 June 2022)

wayneL said:


> Personal opinion: It shouldn't be the government's job to give us a "deal". This is the problem with democracy and why the irrevocable path is to self destruction.
> 
> The job of the government should be restricted to maintaining Law and order protecting borders, provide infrastructure and a *basic* safety net, and to stay out of our f****** lives and let us create.



I don't know if you haven't noticed, but everyday there seems to be another cause with their hand out, for the Government to pour money into.
The days of people wanting to have the Government out of their lives , is long passed, now the mantra is get the Govt into your life and problem solved. 
I just looked at the forms I have to fill in, to get the Commonwealth Seniors Health Care card, they can keep it.  
I can now see where my 90 year old MIL is coming from.


----------



## Eager (12 June 2022)

sptrawler said:


> I just looked at the forms I have to fill in, to get the Commonwealth Seniors Health Care card, they can keep it.
> I can now see where my 90 year old MIL is coming from.



Have the forms changed in the last 3 weeks? I doubt it.

Realistically, it's probably just a case of you expecting a magic carpet ride.


----------



## IFocus (12 June 2022)

sptrawler said:


> I don't know if you haven't noticed, but everyday there seems to be another cause with their hand out, for the Government to pour money into.
> The days of people wanting to have the Government out of their lives , is long passed, now the mantra is get the Govt into your life and problem solved.
> I just looked at the forms I have to fill in, to get the Commonwealth Seniors Health Care card, they can keep it.
> I can now see where my 90 year old MIL is coming from.





Actually the biggest recipient  of handouts are corporations starting with $40 bil blown to the wind 1/2 weren't even Australian.


----------



## sptrawler (12 June 2022)

Eager said:


> Have the forms changed in the last 3 weeks? I doubt it.
> 
> Realistically, it's probably just a case of you expecting a magic carpet ride.



No actually not looking for a ride at all, did you apply?


----------



## sptrawler (12 June 2022)

IFocus said:


> Actually the biggest recipient  of handouts are corporations starting with $40 bil blown to the wind 1/2 weren't even Australian.



Fortunately that will all come to an end now.


----------



## Smurf1976 (12 June 2022)

wayneL said:


> The job of the government should be restricted to maintaining Law and order protecting borders, provide infrastructure and a *basic* safety net, and to stay out of our f****** lives and let us create.




There was a time in the past when we had far less governing overall but we had fit for purpose energy infrastructure, a first rate health system and those who legitimately needed public housing could obtain it.

Now we've got far more government as such but we've got an energy crisis, ambulances being ramped at hospitals and people literally living in tents.

The change being not the size of government per se but the composition of it. We've got far more rules, regulation and bureaucracy but far less actual doing.


----------



## PZ99 (13 June 2022)

Hehe... I seem to remember taking part in removing the government out of our lives by voting yes for SSM


----------



## Eager (13 June 2022)

sptrawler said:


> No actually not looking for a ride at all, did you apply?



I'm not a senior.


----------



## sptrawler (13 June 2022)

Eager said:


> I'm not a senior.



Lucky you.


----------



## basilio (15 June 2022)

Why the Liberals lost the election. *Do they ring true ?*

Labor campaign director's eight reasons why the Coalition lost the election​*Paul Erickson* has summarised why the Coalition lost in eight key points:

One, a pathological refusal to take responsibility for anything which comes from their small government mindset.

Two, incompetent management of the Federal Government’s responsibilities during the pandemic.

Three, cabinet-wide partisan attacks on state and territory governments throughout Covid which particularly alienated voters in Victoria and Western Australia.

Four, incompetent budget management.

Five, an incompetent and incoherent response to the cost of living crisis.

Six, incoherent engagement with our allies in our region.

Seven, a lack of awareness or interest in women’s experiences across the economy and society.

Eight, a decades long failure to take climate change seriously.

Scott Morrison may have come to personify these failures but they are institutional and collective, not individual. They’re actively prosecuted by senior cabinet ministers and all Coalition leaders, including the two men then seen as the only likely successors to Scott Morrison – Josh Frydenberg and Peter Dutton


----------



## SirRumpole (15 June 2022)

basilio said:


> Why the Liberals lost the election. *Do they ring true ?*
> 
> Labor campaign director's eight reasons why the Coalition lost the election​*Paul Erickson* has summarised why the Coalition lost in eight key points:
> 
> ...




Yes, they do ring true to me anyway, plus the 22 energy policies fiasco.

I guess it shows that Oppositions rarely win elections, governments lose them.


----------



## wayneL (15 June 2022)

Small government mindset? 🤣


----------



## SirRumpole (15 June 2022)

wayneL said:


> Small government mindset? 🤣




Not small minded enough for some apparently.


----------



## wayneL (15 June 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> Not small minded enough for some apparently.



Well that about hits the nail on the head. True classical liberals are big minded, intelligent folk, and the current Liberal Party became a parody of itself.

As has Labor really, evidenced by the abysmal primary vote for each.


----------



## sptrawler (15 June 2022)

When you read the list, it will certainly be worth reading how it all is in 6-12 months, addressing cost of living issues with a 5% wage rise will be interesting to watch.
Also how the coal issue is resolved, both thermal and metallurgical, Chris Bowen will certainly have his hands full. As the media and the States will no doubt hold him responsible as was Taylor.
Energy minister wont be a nice place to be, the renewables sector wanting action, the coal sector wanting action, the greens wanting action and the general public wanting affordable electricity.🤪


----------



## Eager (15 June 2022)

sptrawler said:


> Energy minister wont be a nice place to be, the renewables sector wanting action, the coal sector wanting action, the greens wanting action....



So, why didn't those groups get action over the past 10 years? (this is a coalition discussion thread, after all)


----------



## wayneL (15 June 2022)

What freakin action?

Everybody wants "action", but for nothing to change for their own lifestyle, otherwise they'd be doing it already (like your friendly neighbourhood skeptic actually IS).

Classic cognitive dissonance.


----------



## sptrawler (15 June 2022)

Eager said:


> So, why didn't those groups get action over the past 10 years? (this is a coalition discussion thread, after all)



What, are you saying Angus Taylor didnt get any action, I thought he copped plenty.
As will Chris Bowen, which is what I was saying.
The coalition had to manage the issues and dealing with the pressure groups, now hopefully it will be smoother.


----------



## Eager (15 June 2022)

sptrawler said:


> What, are you saying Angus Taylor didnt get any action, I thought he copped plenty.
> As will Chris Bowen, which is what I was saying.
> The coalition had to manage the issues and dealing with the pressure groups, now hopefully it will be smoother.



Huh?

You mentioned three groups wanting action, and now you're talking about the bloke who wouldn't provide any, and now you're saying he's the victim?

The problem, is that the coalition DIDN'T manage the issues. The only reason Taylor was constantly pressured by those groups is because he was paralysed by believing in his own BS.


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## sptrawler (15 June 2022)

Eager said:


> Huh?
> 
> You mentioned three groups wanting action, and now you're talking about the bloke who wouldn't provide any, and now you're saying he's the victim?
> 
> The problem, is that the coalition DIDN'T manage the issues. The only reason Taylor was constantly pressured by those groups is because he was paralysed by believing in his own BS.



You are showing your blinkered bias, if the last Government had done nothing, the East Coast wouldnt be having the issues they are having, because there wouldnt be enough renewables in the system to be causing the coal fired generators the problems they are having. We have one of the highest penetrations of  renewables into an electrical grid in the World and are actually breaking new ground and developing technology to cope with it.

So if you are going to say someone else is talking BS, dont fall into the same trap yourself.
As I said I dont think Chris will find it any easier.
Im not invested in either side, just watching the pantomime with interest.


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## Knobby22 (16 June 2022)

I much prefer quotes from inside the party as to why they lost. Posted in the Weekend Paper but unattributed unfortunately.

_One Liberal MP had a very specific putdown for Mr Morrison.
"He f**cked us and his fingerprints are absolutely f**kin’ everywhere on that," he said.

"The bloke thinks he is a master strategist. He is a f**kwit."_


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## PZ99 (16 June 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> I much prefer quotes from inside the party as to why they lost. Posted in the Weekend Paper but unattributed unfortunately.
> 
> _One Liberal MP had a very specific putdown for Mr Morrison.
> "He f**cked us and his fingerprints are absolutely f**kin’ everywhere on that," he said.
> ...



Without doing any research on it I think a lot of it had to do with ScoMo and that Hawke guy handpicking those candidates at the last moment rather than using the Libs democratic process to pick their best candidates.

I wouldn't mind knowing from inside the Labor party what they think of their own handpick of Keneally.

Expensive captain calls from both sides


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## wayneL (16 June 2022)

Knobby22 said:


> I much prefer quotes from inside the party as to why they lost. Posted in the Weekend Paper but unattributed unfortunately.
> 
> _One Liberal MP had a very specific putdown for Mr Morrison.
> "He f**cked us and his fingerprints are absolutely f**kin’ everywhere on that," he said.
> ...



Succinct


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## SirRumpole (7 November 2022)

Infiltration of the Liberal Party by religious conservatives.









						'Infiltrate, impact and impel': The religious right roadmap to Liberal Party control
					

A roadmap outlining how the religious right can "infiltrate" the Liberal Party with "Good Godly" candidates has been linked to a controversial former Liberal candidate and current member of the party's state assembly in Victoria.




					www.abc.net.au


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## PZ99 (7 November 2022)

Chances are it's attracting refugees from the defunct Fred Nile CDP party. It dissolved earlier this year.


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## moXJO (7 November 2022)

SirRumpole said:


> Infiltration of the Liberal Party by religious conservatives.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They can enjoy not being voted in again if that's the case. Right, or left authoritarianism can both get stuffed.


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## orr (21 November 2022)

A Rainbow Missed.......

No doubt there's all facets of  'queer' Liberal leaning voters 'out' there; I hazard a guess? .... less of the fascist's I hope.


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## Smurf1976 (22 November 2022)

moXJO said:


> They can enjoy not being voted in again if that's the case. Right, or left authoritarianism can both get stuffed.



I respect the right of others to believe in whatever religion they wish to believe in.

I reserve my right to freedom _from_ religion and shall be having nothing to do with it.


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## wayneL (22 November 2022)

orr said:


> fascist's



 A word from which such inappropriate and over use, no longer means anything.


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