# JB-System



## coyotte (24 March 2007)

A  Ozz MetaStock Plugin from "Jim Berg"

Cost $au50 to $au150 depending how you buy it.
Download from site ---- sharetradingeducation.com. 

I have absolutely no connection with Jim Berg and do not stand to gain financially in any way -- not even a member of the service.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Came across this plugin early 2007 , whilst looking around for a trading plan (base) unrelated to patterns or trend lines.

It is based on the ATR and RSI indicators.
Suitable for Short/Med/Long term.
XJO Stocks .
Built in Buy/Sell (not expert --- u decide )
Is not subjective -- but as any indicator can be used this way.
Long Only.

Know it's Lagging etc ,etc -- but let's just judge it on it's merits and leave the bias to one side.

Am still building up a "Watch List" for it, as it has a built in search function, so it may take a while for this thread to get mobile.

But early signs seem promising as will be demostrated in the next post.
It could be of use outside the area it's developer intended.


Berg's Rules

Rules of the method are basic:

1: Stock in UP trend.

2: Stock must have made a recent low with the systems RSI setting.

3: Has now risen and CLOSED above the lower red line (trigger).

4: Initial STOP is the recent LOW (no trade if >10%).

5: Exit for short term is a close above the upper green --if > than 10% of entry.

6: Exit for all terms is two consecutive closes below the the lower red line.


Cheers


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## coyotte (24 March 2007)

Graph of XJO -- it is the areas in the rectangles that are being highlighted:

Graph: 01  -- 12 months of the XJO.

Graph: 02 -- April 06 -- the 7 consecutive days -- Breach/Close.

Graph: 03 -- Oct 06 -- 1 minor breach.

Graph: 04 -- Feb 07 -- the 8 consecutive days -- Breach/Close .

May and probably means nothing -- this system is still under TEST -- but maybe there is use for it outside the designed area as a Early Warning, to start tightening STOPS and begin looking for signs of a correction.

Cheers


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## tech/a (24 March 2007)

coyotte


> 5: Exit for short term is a close above the upper green --if > than 10% of entry.




Isnt this limiting your profit to an R/R of 1:1 perhaps a little over?
From your charts in 2 of the trends this rule would have seen you out well before the end of the trend.

Exit for longterm I presume is a close below the ATR.
So if the close closes above the Green line how would you decide whether to take the short term exit or not---?


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## coyotte (24 March 2007)

Exit for med/term is two consecutive closes below the bottom line. (red)
Exit for short term is a close above the top line (green ) if >10% of entry.
Once underway -- Stop for all terms is the same as the  med/long exit.

Initial Stop - the recent low --but Entry not > than 10% of this low.

These are the rules laid down by Berg -- it is these that I had in mind of working upon -- the STOPS & EXITS.

Heaps of stuff -- strike rate vs exit, tighter initial stop, count back, med term exit at above the top line after consecutive breech.

The indicator itself seems ok -- its just the sloppy rules.

Cheers


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## coyotte (24 March 2007)

FLX ---12 mths

You can see the Entries (system's RSI makes a low, followed by the trigger).

The Sept 06 Entry was followed by a ST Exit and a M/L term Exit/Stop. 

Another possible Entry (RSI had not bottom though) followed by a all terms Stop.


Then the one where I picked it up (but for totally different reason -- post 249 in the "potential breakouts" thread).

The Feb 14 Entry is still a all term goer -- I dropped out early as I closed all positions.



Cheers


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## It's Snake Pliskin (25 March 2007)

Thanks Coyotte.


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## tech/a (25 March 2007)

Coyotte.

Good to see that the Application of a method and in this case Bergs is being considered.
This is simply the point I have been making relative to any form of analysis,that the analysis itself when used to trade---its application will be the determining factor in CONSISTENT profitability.Something which is harder than it looks.

Once placed and tested in a system,the results of that application (And you can alter the application in many ways) will be seen.When trading in a discretionary manner they wont.

From past experience the lagging nature of these types of methodologies make consistent and satisfactory profit almost impossible.

The R/R are to low and their W/L ratio are not high enough to offset the low R/R.
Observations not critisisms of Coyottes post.


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## wayneL (25 March 2007)

tech/a said:


> Coyotte.
> 
> Good to see that the Application of a method and in this case Bergs is being considered.
> This is simply the point I have been making relative to any form of analysis,that the analysis itself when used to trade---its application will be the determining factor in CONSISTENT profitability.Something which is harder than it looks.
> ...



Not withstanding the comments on R/R and W/L, I was interested in your comments about the "lagging" nature of this system. How is it any more lagging than say... Techtrader?


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## coyotte (25 March 2007)

We know it's lagging  --- but it (the indicator) would also appear to be predictive --- the constant breech of the upper line for the XJO before the two medium corrections, in contrast to the minor breech followed by a minor correction --- is the bit that has caught my eye, as a early warning.

If the ST exit ( profit) rule was changed to 20% , it would then be acceptable ??? --- No, a load of rubbish unless you knew the strike rate

As stated I'm looking  at refining the trading rules --- and possible use as a predictive tool for indexs.

The next post on BlueScope shows it's possible strength (the indicator) is weakened by one of it's rules:

Cheers


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## tech/a (25 March 2007)

*Wayne*

*Techtrader is a tested system.*

From application of the trading conditions, Enrty, Exit, Stops, Position sizing, over the period tested back in 2001 X % was seen as being achieved after 20000 systems tests. Its a fixed set of rules TESTED.
We know that *REGARDLESS *of trades taken from those triggered that if applied thats what (x% the X being between 18 and 28%) will be returned.

Further improvements in return are made by using leverage (Margin) and reinvesting profit. 4 yrs have returned as expected. In fact to the higher end of X.

For discretionary systems we dont know any of that. Its a huge risk.We dont know how it will perform and on which universe it will perform best, infact wether it CAN return a profit. All we can do is KNOW that we must have a good R/R and as higher W/L ratio as possible even then no guarentees. It MAYBE helpful to discretionary traders to select trades with least Risk and Coyotte has 10% as the max---strangely the exact SET RISK of Techtrader.

My own veiw is to maximise R/R and W/L in a discretionary method,we need analysis which is closer to the price action,yet accurate enough to be able to save us from premature ejeculation!!!

I have been working for sometime with a small group of traders who have shown me that 75% W/L and R/R of 3 to 15:1 is being achieved with a Discretionary trading methodology. It is Systematic as Motorway pointed out but I cannot test it.

Hence my renewed interest in E/W and my introduction to VSA. I'm not prepared to disclose the EXACT aspects I am working with them on. *I am the eternal sceptic* as many well know here, so even being shown in real time these results---time and again---have me setting myself up and attempting to replicate---and I believe to some degree improve.(I havent been approached for improvement--thats just me). These people dont need the Duck, but is perhaps one of the benefits from posting for so long on forums ---you just dont know whos having a peek---and perhaps the opportunities presented---yet to be proven by the Duck.

Entry AND Exit become very important.
Entry for high W/L and Exit for maximum R/R.
AGET is NOT perfect but it goes way further in the hands of those who are genuine practitioners of Elliot wave (them not me---but learning) than it does in the hands of those who expect software to trade for them.
VSA the same---and the Duck the same---learning.

*Supermarket* software and analysis just wont cut serious highly profitable (Systematic) discretionary (Systematic---there are clear rules---but try to programme Elliot Wave and VSA analysis into a systems test!! Not to mention Short and long balancing of portfolio along with leverage pyramiding,and profit extraction.) trading.

Few go down the road--cost is one serious reason and understanding or capability to learn ---another. The Duck will be flying North and thats where he will be.

*Perhaps* this goes a way toward explaining the Ducks percieved changing from X to Y.
*No its just another part of the process*.Those processes will remain in place until and if something better comes along to work in conjunction with or take the place of accepted practices.

Above all things I need to see *APPLICATION*---Ive seen it--but not yet from me.
Mind you the "They could be wrong" post does stem from my investigation into the above. The "This is the top" brigade are STILL yet to be disproven.

Sorry Coyotte will now let you continue. Perhaps some of the above will help in some of your research.


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## coyotte (25 March 2007)

BSL: 

Defining the TREND:
Using both a 180dma or a 10/40 wma -- would have left us out of the initial move -- the indicator picked it though  --- maybe work on defining the TREND is required, if used as a "selection system".
BSL: is still a goer --- do not hold a position.

Cheers


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## coyotte (25 March 2007)

SMM:

Should of interest to a few:

The rules at this early stage as laid down by Berg, seem to be failing this Indicator badly.
There are a  couple of ST trades on this chart prior to the  first one arrowed.

Of particular note is the action in the rectangle prior to the fall.

Anyone Know how I write a "MS screening formula" for a 7 day RSI  that has hit 30???? -- Berg's doesn't seem to work.

After a screen that will bring up -- > $1.00, < $10.00, 7day RSI  has recently hit 30. 



Cheers


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## coyotte (25 March 2007)

SMM current --- ample warning !!!

Cheers


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## tech/a (25 March 2007)

If(RSI(C,7)<=30,1,0)

Place in indicator builder.


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## coyotte (25 March 2007)

Thank you

Cheers


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## Fero (25 March 2007)

Hi Coyote,

I use bullcharts which has a Jim Berg Volitility Profit taker as one of the included systems. I find it very useful and as you indicate it can be predictive. 
It was useful in predicting this last correction and also for the correction in may last year. I look at weekly and daily charts of the different indexes and if they are all starting to line up the probability of a drop is high. I find the "take profit point" is often early.  I used to use RSI to confirm but have changed to using SIROC which smooths it out and makes it a bit easier to see, more so on the entry. I exit if the SIROC breeches the 90%. If an berg entry point matches with SIROC lines near 10% and an upward trending crossover it is usually a good entry point. Also look at volumes.


I did trade SMM using this system but missed out on a lot of upward movement but then with other stocks the exit can be right on the money. I try and stick to my rules and only take the trades with the highest probability of succeeding. 

Am only a relative beginner so am trying to learn and improve on what i do. What i have been doing is fairly basic but seems to work well for me but irealise this has been a pretty easy market to trade in and that this system only works on an uptrending market. When the market gets tougher i want to try and be prepared.


Hope these charts work, as this is first time tried this.


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## Fero (25 March 2007)

Looks like they didnt, will try again.

Should have used preview post i see. Better but still not brilliant.


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## coyotte (25 March 2007)

Thanks Fero.

Thats the type of input I'm after.

Cheers


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## tech/a (25 March 2007)

coyotte said:


> Thanks Fero.
> 
> Thats the type of input I'm after.
> 
> Cheers





And "THEY" said posting your methodology and or ideas wouldn't be of benefit!!!!

What did the Duck tell you and its DAY 1

Enjoy.
Make the effort and *"THEY WILL COME"*


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## coyotte (25 March 2007)

tech/a said:


> And "THEY" said posting your methodology and or ideas wouldn't be of benefit!!!!
> 
> What did the Duck tell you and its DAY 1
> 
> ...




Of course it does --- as it opens up for debate hopefully the thread starter will learn something along with others ---- of those that do pick up on the method 90% will have dropped it by 12mths for various reasons --- so in the long run it ends up back to the status quo.


Cheers


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## tech/a (25 March 2007)

coyotte.

*Drop the attitude.*

The whole idea is to improve whatever it is your doing to trade. What you are displaying here are the very embrionic stages of a methodology which hasnt proven anything in way of application---YET. You've asked a few questions in relation to formulas and have been helped in regard to some filtering---a possible improvement.

You've got to find the holes in the methodology or ANY methodology,and I can see quite a few.
If I put them up I'll be seen as a big head trying to howel you down.

They are there you just need to identify them.*When you do then you'll learn.*

Analysis is less than 30% of the total equation.
I keep going on about APPLICATION and there is where you'll find the holes---AS YOU APPLY in REALTIME any methodology.


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## coyotte (25 March 2007)

tech 

In post 20, I sort of agreed with you in regard to post 19


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## wayneL (25 March 2007)

tech/a said:


> *Wayne*
> 
> *Techtrader is a tested system.*
> 
> ...




Tech,

You've discovered something many of us knew already.

But you didn't answer my question about lagging. Why is Coyotte's system any more "lagging" than techtrader? 



> coyotte.
> 
> Drop the attitude.



Look in the mirror!


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## tech/a (25 March 2007)

wayneL said:


> Tech,
> 
> You've discovered something many of us knew already.




Great looks like Im joining the elite.How do you find the combination of both?
The Money Management algorithms are a definate strong point,Ive never seen the way their used,how have you found them?
Or are you meaning the general text?



> But you didn't answer my question about lagging. Why is Coyotte's system any more "lagging" than techtrader?




Firstly its not a system its a trading idea.It appears to be working in a restricted timeframe and as such is to slow in my view for the timeframe chosen to trade----days and weeks not months and years in the case of T/T. Time relative to average holding time.




> Look in the mirror!




Damned ugly.

And your a moderator!!


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## Kauri (25 March 2007)

Coyotte,
             Looks on the surface to be an updated version of JB's Truth about Volatility expert.... (i.e. original didn't have RSI).. have attached MS Expert code for Long colour coding, if it is the same will give you some idea of what it is based on.   I think from memory...Green is long/entry, red exit/short, gold is neutral.   Hope it is of interest...
             Cheers
                        Kauri


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## wayneL (25 March 2007)

tech/a said:


> Great looks like Im joining the elite.How do you find the combination of both?
> The Money Management algorithms are a definate strong point,Ive never seen the way their used,how have you found them?
> Or are you meaning the general text?



The general text. 



tech/a said:


> Firstly its not a system its a trading idea.It appears to be working in a restricted timeframe and as such is to slow in my view for the timeframe chosen to trade----days and weeks not months and years in the case of T/T. Time relative to average holding time.



OK, I get your meaning in this regard now.



tech/a said:


> And your a moderator!!



......and?


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## Kauri (25 March 2007)

Kauri said:


> Coyotte,
> Looks on the surface to be an updated version of JB's Truth about Volatility expert.... (i.e. original didn't have RSI).. have attached MS Expert code for Long colour coding, if it is the same will give you some idea of what it is based on.  I think from memory...Green is long/entry, red exit/short, gold is neutral. Hope it is of interest...
> Cheers
> Kauri




   Sorry, gold is short...green long... red exit...


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## tech/a (25 March 2007)

wayneL said:


> ......and?




Your comment is not one of moderation but of opinion.
Seems you like both sides of the fence when it suits.


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## wayneL (25 March 2007)

tech/a said:


> Your comment is not one of moderation but of opinion.
> Seems you like both sides of the fence when it suits.




Alas, as moderator, I am authorized to to moderate what in my opinion is moderatable. Note it is not an exact science and subject to all human foibles. 

However, in my opinion, your comment to coyote was unjustified condescension, and as this has been brought up by other posters as well, I think it well within my remit to try to point that out to you.

Let's not get caught up with egos, and destroy this thread. Any further extraneous comment by PM please.

Carry on with topic.


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## tech/a (25 March 2007)

wayneL said:


> Any further extraneous comment by PM please.
> 
> Carry on with topic.




Ditto.


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## coyotte (25 March 2007)

Kauri 

Thanks -- I presume that is a MS -- formula? -- the RSI Berg is using is 7 days.

Fero 

If you kept a record of the trades -- would you mind briefly posting them (figures only) -- for a statical input -- are the entry and mainly the exit conditions the same?

Tech 
I refuse to harp on this: but I simply do not get your point about attitude?

I do disagree though and no it's not "attitude" but from my own approach to the market and the past gambling experience/knowledge I have that your insistence/approach  on a "positive expectancy" or whatever you want to call it is not necessarily the correct one -- what you are seeking is what a casino or gambler calls "over the odds" --- which I would presume you and most others are familiar with --- from a casino/gambler's perspective you can not get "OVERS" until you know the long term strike rate -- the long term S/R will determine the "ODDS" --- it's the ODDS that then determine what the minimum return must be --- naturally you would only take trades that offer OVERS ----  so by rights the "money management plan" should be tailor made for each System/Method based on its ODDS.
And don't bother trying to present arguments against it because it is the correct approach -- full stop.


Cheers


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## tech/a (26 March 2007)

> And don't bother trying to present arguments against it because it is the correct approach -- full stop.




Lets see.
(1) Gambling background.
(2) Has metastock but cant use it.
(3) Sees constructive help as "Know it all"
(4) Summarises Money Management in financial markets in one sentance.

Argue---wouldnt dream of it.
Enjoy your trading.


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## Fero (26 March 2007)

Hi Coyote,

Can only write short post now, will try and reply fully later today.
Will post all the trades i made in January if that is of any use, entry points are consistant, its exit points i have a bit of trouble with and want to refine. As mentioned earlier "Bergs" work well but are often very early. 

cheers


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## coyotte (26 March 2007)

Thanks Fero 
----------------------------

This Indicator seems to be showing further evidence as it's use as a "early warning" signal  ---  the BLG chart for example.
The System's Entry seems o/k --- but for the EXITS maybe Motorway is pointing the finger in his post no. 153 in the "TA-lost the plot" thread.

Cheers


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## coyotte (26 March 2007)

Tech:
In reply to post no.32
A investor whom happens to use a stop loss, trying to advise traders is really just a load of nonsense and visa-versa.


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## tech/a (26 March 2007)

I see.
I'm an investor??
Investors shouldnt use a stoploss.Well in another 2 yrs Duc will either prove that theory right or wrong.So far its looking pretty sick.
You see that which I post on Reef and make all sorts of assumptions.

Believe as you wish.


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## Fero (27 March 2007)

Hi Coyote,

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you, never enough hours in the day. 

As you did initially I also want to make a disclaimer, I have no connection with Jim Berg and am not posting to promote the method or saying it is a great or even a good method as it does have faults but am posting because it is the method I use, someone else has an interest in and would like to improve on it if possible.  

Just remember I am way behind in terms of T/A from most of you guys so what I have done is fairly simplistic but that is why I am here, to learn and improve.

Have attached a table and charts. They are in excel format hope that is ok, had to split into 2 to satisfy file size restrictions. 

The Jim Berg method is designed for buying on open the following day from an entry signal and selling on open the following day from an exit signal. This style of trading suited me as I could set buy and sells before going off to work. You will notice some of the January trades weren’t on open (as I hadn’t gone off to work) often to my detriment.(not the not going off to work).

Haven’t back tested the method, have been thinking of getting tradesim. Use training mode in bullcharts but that’s about it.

Have included all the trades (8) I entered in January. Included one from February as wanted to include a negative outcome trade. 

ENTRY

 I do a scan for the Jim Berg entry points, look for uptrends, and then visually match for SIROC lines being at or close to 10% line and an uptrend crossover of the SIROC lines.  All trades listed with the exception of SYB followed this rule. The SIROC was about 25% but volumes were rising so I took the trade.


EXIT

My exits haven’t been as consistent.
They used to be

Stop loss 

Jim Berg Take Profit point or If SIROC lines reached 90% (whichever came first)

If you look at the charts, using the 90% rule would have given a greater profit in almost every case. So am now using that as exit although doesn’t always work so still looking for refining. 

Any ideas would be appreciated.

Cheers

View attachment January.xls


View attachment Jan2.xls


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## coyotte (27 March 2007)

Fero:

Thanks for the info --- opened up just fine. 

By the way do you have any of Berg's material on this system or are you using BullCharts Experts or  something?


Went into LNN  today -- will post the chart.

Cheers


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## coyotte (27 March 2007)

LNN :

Every entry so far bar the last, has been a flop.
Doing a S/T trade for other reasons -- but am watching the rising exit line.

ENE if it turns may be a selection.


Cheers


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## tech/a (28 March 2007)

> Every entry so far bar the last, has been a flop.




Aint that easy is it.

All Ive ben pointing out is that there is a vast gap between Technical trading plan theory and actual *APPLICATION* of technical methodologies---even those formulated by the more experienced like Berg.

When you do an exercise like this 95% of the time thats one of the things you find.
Contrary to opinion its not my intention to be-little anyone.


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## tech/a (28 March 2007)

*(1)* I can see reasons why this method in its present form and APPLICATION will struggle.
*(2)* I can also see (so far) 3 possible ways of improving the methodology.

Now as some have been very kind to me perhaps those more interested in "Duck" shooting might like to come in here and *add *to coyottes discussion/demonstration of Berg's method.

Perhaps others interested have also have some ideas like *Fero* and may wish to put them up.

If your interested *coyotte* I'll be happy to post up the (1) and (2).

But personally I'm interested to see what help you and others can expect from those more interested in personal attack than sharing practical and useful suggestion.Any suggestions *yourself coyotte*??


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## Fero (28 March 2007)

coyotte said:


> Fero:
> 
> Thanks for the info --- opened up just fine.
> 
> By the way do you have any of Berg's material on this system or are you using BullCharts Experts or  something?




Hi. Dont have any of Berg's material. The citation in Bullcharts for the method is 

"citation="'Share Traders Handbook', Jim Berg;
'A Winning Combination for Traders', Jim Berg, Leverage July 2004 Issue 32 p15-17 www.leveragemag.com.au"]

When i became interested in the method i went off and found some information but cant remember where from.

I remember an entry point for LNN coming up in December but i didnt take it.
Just looking at the LNN chart, from the method i use there would have only been 2 possible entries but overall the trend was down to flat  so didnt consider it. Trend may now be changing though. 

As Tech/A was saying application is important. If you blindly took every entry you would fail big time, have learnt you need to be selective. Quantifying that selectivity is the hard thing.

Looked at ENE and it could be a possibilty but would need to run a bit further down or sideways to meet entry conditions for me, that would probably take another couple of weeks.

Cheers


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## Fero (28 March 2007)

tech/a said:


> *(1)* I can see reasons why this method in its present form and APPLICATION will struggle.
> *(2)* I can also see (so far) 3 possible ways of improving the methodology.
> 
> 
> If your interested *coyotte* I'll be happy to post up the (1) and (2).




Hi Tech/a,

I would be interested.

Cheers


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## Kauri (28 March 2007)

Hi Coyotte,
                 Have put the RSI(7) in Bergs original Truth about Volatility expert advisor in MS. (Have stated that the RSI(7) has to have been below 30 in the last 14 periods and must be >30 on entry signal). Ties up (roughly??) with the system you are posting I think. I don't use it myself but thought it may be of interest to be able to see what is driving the entry signals as opposed to a black box entry system. Hope it helps...
     Cheers
               Kauri


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## coyotte (28 March 2007)

Fero :

Have Berg's PDF book which includes this system -- basically it started out as a med/long term method:

1: SP above 180 dma and dma trending up.
2: The exit line trending up.
3: RSI -- 7day
4: Entry: RSI recently < 40 -- SP moves from below to close above Exit Line.
5: Exit  : two consecutive CLOSES  below the exit line.

Apparently his news letter subscribers wanted a S/T method ---- he suggested the initial close above the upper line or maybe two consecutive closes above the upper line ---- Berg is a broker and his selections for this method come from the Firm he works for --- his PDF book is quite expensive for the info in it (stuff u read every where), but has some basic info about this indicator in it. -- if u want further info PM.


Tech/A:

I have no problem with your approach of requesting proof of a method --- it puts the poster in the spot of "put up or shut up  ", which if posting on these forums is how it should be (moderators ??) --- it is the way you go about it,  you tend to bring out the absolute worse in others ---- think it is really time for all of us involved in this to just get over it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As a footnote:

I sort of started trading back around 1990 when I came across "Charting made Easy" a Ozz book by M. Armstrong based on Trends --- from then have  basically been a  trend/pattern trader in its various forms --- after seeing Wavepickers work on this site it sparked a interest in EW which as I see it is really only Trends with Fib No.s thrown in.

Was under the presumption that as far Trend/Pattern trading was concerned I basically knew it.

I had cursively looked at the McLaren DVD Mag had suggested, but since last weekend have been delving into it -- based on   Price/Trend/Vol --- have been bringing up the old trading charts of "where the f*ck did that come from" --- well McLaren shows you where it came from --- No Gann in this part of the lessons --- McLaren goes on with "Trend Patterns"  (not traditional patterns )  --  when pointed out, how obvious -- the more we learn the more we find how little we know.

I've also been following up on Dilernia, this guy has nothing but top reviews everywhere -- took the plunge and bought his book (u also need FibonacciTrader) 

Have closed all positions to concentrate on these two schools.

Going to be hard to teach an old dog some new tricks.


Best of luck to all. 

Cheers


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## tech/a (28 March 2007)

> I have no problem with your approach of requesting proof of a method




coyotte.

*I'm not requesting proof.*

I'm suggesting that there is a vast difference between methodology THEORY and actual application of ANY methodology.

When people actually try to apply 95% of methods including some suggested but not shown in realtime application---much can be learnt.

Its never been any more or any less from me.
Its been a *perception* that I'm continually looking for proof that people can trade profitably.

If you or anyone posts a methodology which turns out to be consistently---or even Spasmodically profitable or a complete failure and the populace either help with suggestion to improve it or find weaknesses which improve it or add money management principals to improve it--or explains how their APPLICATION of their analysis can improve others or has improved their own trading---then some will benifit.

The presentation of a method without application is as useful as an empty bottle of draft--Ive got the bottle which says its beer but no contents.

So I have a trading method but have no idea how it would/could or should perform REALTIME.

Frankee's no dummy. Nor McClaren.
But you can learn all you like, the trick is applying knowledge... something I dont see here.---and I get bagged because I point it out.


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## tech/a (29 March 2007)

*Coyotte,Fero,Kauri*

Well gents the suggestions are just running off the page.


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## Kauri (29 March 2007)

tech/a said:


> *Coyotte,Fero,Kauri*
> 
> Well gents the suggestions are just running off the page.




*techa,*
          It would seem that it is not only suggestions that are running off the page...


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## yonnie (12 May 2007)

hello folks,

why bother with Jim Berg?

read one of his books and from memory he only made a 9% per year return.
What`s so good about that


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