# My 1st day trading on the ASX!



## wilto (2 October 2012)

Hi there, a little bit of info about myself 1st. I have had no desire to enter the share market at any time before now. With around 13yrs left to the daily grind, I am going to have a go at steering a portion my super myself. around 15% of it any way, the remaing total I have placed 30% in direct property, 30% in Australian fixed interest and left 40% in their balanced option, for now any way. I can switch these investments weekly.
Bought these yesterday 01/10/12.
BHP 200 @ 33.12, LLC 500 @ 7.79, LYC 4000 @ 0.81, ORG 500 @ 11.38, PRY 1000 @ 3.64, SUN 500 @ 9.20ishares IKO 200 @ 57.10

And today 02/10/12 
AIO 1000 @ 4.39

All doing well 1st day in exceopt for PRY down 1c.

I have no interest in any of these shares other than making a "profit", how much time will tell......or not!

 Now all I have to do is know when to sell, maybe now is a good time, lol


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## wilto (2 October 2012)

*Screenshot*

Here is a screen shot, plenty of green there. For now!


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## Mr Wilson (2 October 2012)

Wow, Well done my friend. 

I didn't add up how much you invested but it seemed to be a bit,
What made you want to diversify your super portfolio? also why did you pick the shares that you did?

As for selling time's and making profit it's entirely up to and your strategy.
Have you done much research into the company's you brought into, this info could aid in your strategy.

I currently have not sold any shares that I own, "There all green but it doesn't meant I didn't loose money".


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## wilto (2 October 2012)

Mr Wilson said:


> Wow, Well done my friend.
> 
> I didn't add up how much you invested but it seemed to be a bit,
> What made you want to diversify your super portfolio? also why did you pick the shares that you did?
> ...




I am up a few hundred, after 1 day, on about $55000 investment. All the shares I bought yesterday and today are up from my original purchase. My super fund, research daily and post the data that also includes a list of some shares with a note, buy, hold or sell next to them. I chose a couple of these, and chose a couple myself. I don't intend to grow this portion of my super. As profits are/if realised, i will transfer the cash to a more stable investment in the fund. And reinvest the original amount. That's the plan any way.

There are a couple more I bought that are not in my original post. All the ones in the above screenshot.


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## ParleVouFrancois (2 October 2012)

QAN... not sure if serious


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## Gringotts Bank (2 October 2012)

Well done on a good first day.  

About 2 weeks ago your thread would have been torn to shreds by a bunch of guys who would be saying:

-- spend 10,000 hours on learning this technique, then come and talk to me
-- you don't even know your entry/exit criteria, therefore you will lose.
-- why now?  
-- what is your method?  
-- what do you know about advanced system design? 
-- show me 10 years of backtested and forward run trades, with and equity curve, std deviation, CAR/MDD, Sharpe ratio, etc etc etc

But that is just one way of doing business.

The other way is to do it the way you're doing it.

Strangely, the more sophisticated approach is rarely more profitable.

Hedge funds have access to Harvard PhDs in system design, statistics, maths, and yet these geekazoids barely manage to beat the market in most cases.  Of course there are some who do (eg. the HFT guys).

Do your thing in whichever way you feel comfortable.  

*The only criterion is *how consistently are you making money over the long term*.*  A geekazoid will quote you some BS stat that he thinks is important, but the only important thing is whether you win over the long term.

So... yeh... a good start.  Keep it up.


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## McLovin (2 October 2012)

Hmm...I'm a little confused by this thread. The market was up 1% today so it's not surprising your portfolio was too. Are you actually trading this or buying for medium/long term?


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## Klogg (2 October 2012)

Is there any reason you used all $55000 worth of capital in a single day?


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## prawn_86 (2 October 2012)

Hi Wilto,

Welcome to ASF, there are plenty of resources here for beginners.

As Mclovin has said, the market was up today, so it is likely that the majority of stocks would have finished up. 

Some good questions i think for beginners are:
1. What is your strategy? Long term, swing trade, buy and hold? etc Being in a SMSF i assume there are regulations around this?
2. Why did you buy the stocks you did?
3. What is your exit criteria? Do you have a profit target or a stop loss?

Many people make money in the markets, the hard part is not giving it all back during the bad times.

Good luck!


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## wilto (2 October 2012)

Not an smsf, but a regular super fund that you can transfer a portion of your super to a transaction account, and purchase shares, etf or term deposits. I don't have any long term plan, only to not do my **** overnight. so this could be over in a month or, I'll keep going for a bit longer.


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## So_Cynical (2 October 2012)

Welcome to ASF wilto

The markets up a bit and so is your portfolio... that's roughly how it works.

For the record you paid way to much for PRY and SUN, also not usually a good idea to deploy all your capital in one day...as you will find out.

Good Luck


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## burglar (2 October 2012)

wilto said:


> ... so this could be over in a month or, ...




*These* companies will not fall over inside one month!

I look forward to your next monthly update.


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## nulla nulla (3 October 2012)

wilto said:


> ........ *I don't have any long term plan*, only to not do my **** overnight. so this could be over in a month or, I'll keep going for a bit longer.





(my bolds) Not having a long term plan/strategy is a worry. Sounds like you are investing for growth rather than trading. Regardless of whether you are trading, short term investing or long term investing, just remember that it will not happen overnight. Good luck.


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## Mr Wilson (3 October 2012)

nulla nulla said:


> Not having a long term plan/strategy is a worry. Sounds like you are investing for growth rather than trading. Regardless of whether you are trading, short term investing or long term investing, just remember that it will not happen overnight. Good luck.




Thank you for the insight nulla nulla, 

I think I'll have to take this advice to the bank and thinking over my own investment strategy.
What kind of time frame are we talking about when we say short term as a posed to long term?

At the moment I am also invested for the growth, due to my part of lower capital as a foundation.

Have a Great day everyone 
Regards Mr wilson


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## wilto (3 October 2012)

OK. Went to bed last night, woke up with an exit strategy.
1. I am prepared to lose 10% of the original $55000 "investment", after that it's nitey nites. All stock gets sold.
2. I am prepared to lose 20% of any one stock, after that it gets the flick.
3. If I can make greater tha 8% p/a on my holding I may continue with this venture. If not, All stock gets sold.


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## McLovin (3 October 2012)

And what was the basis for buying those particular shares?


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## white_goodman (3 October 2012)

wilto said:


> OK. Went to bed last night, woke up with an exit strategy.
> 1. I am prepared to lose 10% of the original $55000 "investment", after that it's nitey nites. All stock gets sold.
> 2. I am prepared to lose 20% of any one stock, after that it gets the flick.
> 3. If I can make greater tha 8% p/a on my holding I may continue with this venture. If not, All stock gets sold.




good thing you have no directional risk in the portfolio..


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## Gringotts Bank (3 October 2012)

wilto said:


> OK. Went to bed last night, woke up with an exit strategy.
> 1. I am prepared to lose 10% of the original $55000 "investment", after that it's nitey nites. All stock gets sold.
> 2. I am prepared to lose 20% of any one stock, after that it gets the flick.
> 3. If I can make greater tha 8% p/a on my holding I may continue with this venture. If not, All stock gets sold.




Sounds reasonable for a long term investor.  The hardest thing for most investors/traders is to take a loss when things aren't working, and to hold onto your winners.  Most people will bank their winning trades too early (desperate to grab hold of the cash as soon as it appears) and hold the losers/laggards too long (hoping for a recovery that rarely happens).

As I said, I use some stats and system design myself (because I find it fun more than anything else), but I am continually struck by people I meet who have a very simple approach and who do well out of the market.  It is possible for example, to read the Fin Review once a week, get some ideas, place your trades with a full service broker for $70(!) and come out way ahead of the curve over the long term.

There's only one meaningful stat: Are you consistently making money?  Day one, you're up, day two you're probably up also.  So far so good.

There are some guys who know their "stochastic alpha, beta, rho's" *and also* make money... like say skc for example.  But that's not the only way.  My main reason for posting is to say - you're winning now, so don't get distracted or start changing things because someone thinks you're not doing it right.


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## redcorvetteguy (3 October 2012)

wilto said:


> OK. Went to bed last night, woke up with an exit strategy.
> 1. I am prepared to lose 10% of the original $55000 "investment", after that it's nitey nites. All stock gets sold.
> 2. I am prepared to lose 20% of any one stock, after that it gets the flick.
> 3. If I can make greater tha 8% p/a on my holding I may continue with this venture. If not, All stock gets sold.




Hi Wilto, welcome to ASF. i was having a good read so thought i would put my 2cents worth in.
 If your shares drop 10-20% thats the time to be buying more not selling. I like dollar cost averaging with my shares as long as he company has good figures and potential to perform in the future.
Its very hard to be buying more shares when your portfolio is crumbling but should pay off long term.
cheers


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## Julia (3 October 2012)

redcorvetteguy said:


> Hi Wilto, welcome to ASF. i was having a good read so thought i would put my 2cents worth in.
> If your shares drop 10-20% thats the time to be buying more not selling. I like dollar cost averaging with my shares as long as he company has good figures and potential to perform in the future.
> Its very hard to be buying more shares when your portfolio is crumbling but should pay off long term.
> cheers



Investors in once market darling ABC Learning and a few others, now defunct, who followed this advice didn't do too well.


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## matty77 (3 October 2012)

Its just so easy?


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## 5oclock (3 October 2012)

Julia said:


> Investors in once market darling ABC Learning and a few others, now defunct, who followed this advice didn't do too well.




+1 Very good advice JULIA ,surprising how quickly we forget about  the ABCs


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## CanOz (3 October 2012)

Sort of gets back to that low beta point in the article that Joules posted.

If you're going to be a value investor....and you've got the stomach for it.

CanOz


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## nulla nulla (3 October 2012)

redcorvetteguy said:


> Hi Wilto, welcome to ASF. i was having a good read so thought i would put my 2cents worth in.
> If your shares drop 10-20% thats the time to be buying more not selling. I like dollar cost averaging with my shares as long as he company has good figures and potential to perform in the future.
> Its very hard to be buying more shares when your portfolio is crumbling but should pay off long term.
> cheers




I tried that in the first half of 2008. Stopped when the shares kept going down. The bounce never came and I wrote off 50% of my holdings accumulated over the previous 5 years. Stop losses are essential.


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## Klogg (3 October 2012)

nulla nulla said:


> I tried that in the first half of 2008. Stopped when the shares kept going down. The bounce never came and I wrote off 50% of my holdings accumulated over the previous 5 years. Stop losses are essential.




True - depending on your approach to making money from the market.

If you're trend trading or something similar (of which I know next to nothing about), then you definitely want a stop-loss. If you're value-investing, the theory is you buy more when it drops.

To be honest though, I'm not sure what the original poster's approach is.


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## CanOz (3 October 2012)

Klogg said:


> If you're value-investing, the theory is you buy more when it drops.




Is that the definition of value investing?


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## McLovin (3 October 2012)

CanOz said:


> Is that the definition of value investing?




The definition isn't to buy when something falls just because it has fallen but if you have invested in it on a value basis, then yes, you should buy more when the price drops. I don't think the OP is doing that though.


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## burglar (3 October 2012)

I've always thought that if the price drops you review your position.
If the fundamentals are unchanged you MIGHT wish to add.

Don't know about others but I never seem to have enough cash to add to my positions.
Especially since 2010 when I toasted my portfolio by averaging down on three bad boys.

Averaging down works until it doesn't work.


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## So_Cynical (3 October 2012)

5oclock said:


> +1 Very good advice JULIA ,surprising how quickly we forget about  the ABCs




That's probably because they are out numbered by stocks that don't fall over...ratio what 50 to 1? or more given a 5 year time frame. :dunno:



burglar said:


> Averaging down works until it doesn't work.




True but in my experience it works more often than it doesn't and the profits from the times it works are greater than the losses from when it doesn't...so i keep doing it with limits and rules, its part of my overall strategy.

I achieved 101 closed trades today...so feeling cocky. 
~


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## ROE (3 October 2012)

5oclock said:


> +1 Very good advice JULIA ,surprising how quickly we forget about  the ABCs




if you follow the same principles for other 20 stocks you probably come out ahead 

same deal with TLS people bitch how bad the investment is, and again if you follow the same principle
buy every single government asset sale you make your money many times over and cover for dozen of TLS stuffed up.

hell CBA alone covers 10 times TLS stuffed up


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## Julia (3 October 2012)

So_Cynical said:


> True but in my experience it works more often than it doesn't and the profits from the times it works are greater than the losses from when it doesn't



That sounds like your own anecdotal experience rather than a substantiated strategy.



> ...so i keep doing it with limits and rules, its part of my overall strategy.



Fine.  You have been doing what you do for a pretty long time now and no doubt have developed limitations that work for you.
That's very different from anyone recommending such a blanket strategy to people who are very clearly inexperienced.

Still hoping for an answer to McLovin's query to either the OP or Mr Wilson (sorry, forget which now) re why they bought the shares they did.


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## So_Cynical (3 October 2012)

Julia said:


> That sounds like your own anecdotal experience rather than a substantiated strategy.




Substantiated in this forum, 4000 posts with at least 3000 of them in stock threads where my entry's and exits are there for all to see.


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## Julia (3 October 2012)

So_Cynical said:


> Substantiated in this forum, 4000 posts with at least 3000 of them in stock threads where my entry's and exits are there for all to see.



Perhaps I expressed myself badly.   I was trying to suggest that your use of what you have found works for you is quite different from a similar principle used by someone without your experience.


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## So_Cynical (3 October 2012)

Julia said:


> Perhaps I expressed myself badly.   I was trying to suggest that your use of what you have found works for you is quite different from a similar principle used by someone without your experience.




Yes for sure....like everything one does in the share market or even life in general, its best to go forward with a plan that works, rules and some discipline....wilto is clearly winging it.


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## yshima (3 October 2012)

market was up 40+ points yesterday and hit a 14 month high today so a few hundred up on a $55k portfolio is rather disappointing?


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## wilto (3 October 2012)

yshima said:


> market was up 40+ points yesterday and hit a 14 month high today so a few hundred up on a $55k portfolio is rather disappointing?


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## CanOz (4 October 2012)

Lol, my kinda platform....where can I get one of those lol!


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## wilto (4 October 2012)

Gringotts Bank said:


> Sounds reasonable for a long term investor.  The hardest thing for most investors/traders is to take a loss when things aren't working, and to hold onto your winners.  Most people will bank their winning trades too early (desperate to grab hold of the cash as soon as it appears) and hold the losers/laggards too long (hoping for a recovery that rarely happens).
> 
> As I said, I use some stats and system design myself (because I find it fun more than anything else), but I am continually struck by people I meet who have a very simple approach and who do well out of the market.  It is possible for example, to read the Fin Review once a week, get some ideas, place your trades with a full service broker for $70(!) and come out way ahead of the curve over the long term.
> 
> ...




Thanks, Gringotts Bank, Constructive comments I will take on board


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## tinhat (4 October 2012)

Hi Wilto

I'm not sure what your strategy is other than "have a go" and I commend you for taking an active interest in your super. I "inherited" the task of managing a SMSF about three years ago and didn't have a clue what I was doing (still don't to a large degree). Had never owned a share directly before then. I did something similar to you in that I had a share portfolio in the SMSF that was just bleeding capital (AMP, MQG, PPT, SIP to name a few). I knew what I needed to sell but had no idea what to buy. I did something similar to you. I did some fundamental research on a list of companies both large and small cap and came up with what I thought was a balanced portfolio between income stocks and capital growth stocks (some alpha, some beta). Similar to you, once I worked out what I wanted to buy and worked out which companies represented value at their current prices, I went ahead and deployed my capital over a very brief period and thought I would just watch.

Since then, I have learnt a lot about buying with momentum. Even an active investor like myself can learn an enormous amount about how the market moves from reading the technical analysis of the much more frequent traders who post here. I've learnt that even if you believe wholeheartedly in the fundamentals of a stock and that it's current price represents good value, it will only do your head in to see that stock price fall lower and lower once you bought in. A lot of the time the price moves well before the news hits the analysts and the company updates the market on its outlook changing the fundamentals. Other times the fundamentals remain good but sentiment is against the stock. You hit a stop loss and walk away looking for opportunities elsewhere only to later on see that stock rise (classic examples for me are IIN, FLT, WEB, CSL - all hit stop losses and you subsequently doubt your judgement on the companies only to see them rally hard twelve or eighteen months later). Buying a stock against the momentum does your head in.

Never fall in love with a stock. Try and leave all emotion out of your decisions (very hard for me). Don't ride your losers down. It's very easy to take profit early and exit from losers too late.

Don't be in a rush to buy. You are going to miss most opportunities in the market because you already have your capital deployed, you don't notice them or you ignore them. There will always be opportunities to buy at some point in the future the market will be panicking and the news will be all doom and there will be days you can pick up a bargain.

Don't underestimate the value of dividends plus franking credits. I believe that a lot of the tech traders here have forgotten or never understood the power of compound interest. Franking credits supercharge dividends as an income stream, especially inside a low tax vehicle such as superannuation. Income in your fund will be charged 15% income tax, so for any company which pays a 100% (fully franked) dividend, you divide that amount by 0.85 to gross up the dividend to include the franking credit. Because you are forced to reinvest your dividend income inside the super the dividends only compound over time. Some examples of good dividend payers (yields as at today's close) assuming 100% franking ad a 15% tax rate:

NAB net 6.9%, gross 8.1%
TLS net 7.1%, gross 8.4%
TTS net 8.19%, gross 9.6%
SND net 7.4%, gross 8.7%
FWD net 7.2%, gross 8.4%

Note - I am not saying anything about the strength of those companies - beware the dividend trap.

Let's assume you are 35 years old and don't intend to retire and draw super until you are 65 years old. Let's assume that the cost of living is going to rise by 4% per annum over that time. If your portfolio achieves a yield of 8% per annum over that period, the real purchasing value of your capital will have tripled over that period. In nominal terms the value of your capital will have risen nine-fold. Those figures only capitalise the dividend stream and don't include any actual appreciation in the share price over the at period.

I really use to think that technical analysis was just voodoo, but I'm starting to understand a lot about it and about trading rules and attitudes from what I have read in these forums. I still pick stocks based on fundamentals but am continuing to learn about momentum and timing.

Good luck.


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## burglar (4 October 2012)

So_Cynical said:


> ... True but in my experience it works more often than it doesn't and the profits from the times it works are greater than the losses from when it doesn't...so i keep doing it with limits and rules, its part of my overall strategy.




Agree, but accidently slipped on a banana peel, not yet fully recovered. 
And it's not so much the loss of seed capital that hurts, it's the time lost.



So_Cynical said:


> I achieved 101 closed trades today...so feeling cocky.
> ~




Congrats on reaching your milestone!


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## kid hustlr (4 October 2012)

CanOz said:


> Sort of gets back to that low beta point in the article that Joules posted.
> 
> If you're going to be a value investor....and you've got the stomach for it.
> 
> CanOz




link?


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## wilto (4 October 2012)

Tinhat, thanks for the excellent post. A great insight with lots for me to think over. Cheers!


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## tinhat (4 October 2012)

Hi - sorry, made an error with my grossed up dividend calculations - it was late at night  . For a 15% tax rate to gross up the dividend for franking credits you would divide the dividend (or yield) by 0.7 and multiply by 0.85.

Example:
GZL dividends in FY12 18c per share
(18  / 0.7) x 0.85 = 21.9

To gross up the yield of 8.65%
(8.65 / 0.07) x 0.85 = 10.5


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## pixel (4 October 2012)

tinhat said:


> Hi Wilto
> Income in your fund will be charged 15% income tax, so for any company which pays a 100% (fully franked) dividend, you divide that amount by 0.85 to gross up the dividend to include the franking credit.
> Good luck.




not quite, tinhat;
*you multiply the yield by 1.214*
results may be pretty close, but in the interest of accuracy, you multiply by 0.85 and divide by 0.7 

PS: oops - I see you noticed yourself


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## Julia (4 October 2012)

Wilto, I'm a bit confused by your screenshot.
It says "Market Value $56,647"  Change since last valuation % $50,852  :   +877.52%" ?????

And the way the individual stocks are shown seems odd.  I'd normally expect to see your buy price, the quantity, the then capital value, then the $ and % rise or fall, then the current total value.


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## wilto (4 October 2012)

Julia said:


> Wilto, I'm a bit confused by your screenshot.
> It says "Market Value $56,647"  Change since last valuation % $50,852  :   +877.52%" ?????
> 
> And the way the individual stocks are shown seems odd.  I'd normally expect to see your buy price, the quantity, the then capital value, then the $ and % rise or fall, then the current total value.




My super has that screen , but it is quite lengthy, I'll try and post some thing else soon.


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## CanOz (4 October 2012)

kid hustlr said:


> link?




http://www.economist.com/node/21563735?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/secretofbuffettssuccess


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## Julia (4 October 2012)

wilto said:


> My super has that screen , but it is quite lengthy, I'll try and post some thing else soon.



That would be good, wilto, but you're under no obligation, of course.


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## burglar (4 October 2012)

yshima said:


> market was up 40+ points yesterday and hit a 14 month high today so a few hundred up on a $55k portfolio is rather disappointing?




Better up than down!


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## notting (4 October 2012)

Timing seems to be pretty good.
There are not that many financial crises like this one and this one is pretty much solved with all the monopoly money.
May want to start exiting when inflation suddenly starts to rear it's head all over the joint!


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## Julia (4 October 2012)

notting said:


> There are not that many financial crises like this one and this one is pretty much solved with all the monopoly money.



Do you really believe that?


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## notting (4 October 2012)

Julia said:


> Do you really believe that?




Yes. 
But you need to understand the definition of crises.
There are many of course, especially if you are a politician.
A crises will morph, mutate change from black to white and every colour in between depending on the hardness and softness of your cushion.
The machine has been very well oiled and is running beautifully again.
The glass is half full to be sure and should stay that way for some time.
"Have you seen the chart?
It's a hell of a start,
It could be made into a monster,
If we all pull together as a team"


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## Mr Wilson (4 October 2012)

notting said:


> It could be made into a monster,
> If we all pull together as a team"




Well Let me be first in line, What's the second requirement?


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## tinhat (4 October 2012)

notting said:


> Yes.
> But you need to understand the definition of crises.
> There are many of course, especially if you are a politician.
> A crises will morph, mutate change from black to white and every colour in between depending on the hardness and softness of your cushion.
> ...




By the way, which one is Pink?


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## burglar (5 October 2012)

I want to believe!


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## wilto (5 October 2012)

Julia said:


> That would be good, wilto, but you're under no obligation, of course.




OK, set up a yahoo portfolio manager.


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## So_Cynical (5 October 2012)

wilto said:


> OK, set up a yahoo portfolio manager.
> View attachment 49202




LOLs at the annualized gain...bit of a silly feature.

You know wilto you would of probably done just as well putting your money into that ANZ market tracking account, would of cost you a lot less in brokerage for roughly the same result. 

http://www.anz.com/personal/investing-super/shares-managed-funds/online-investment-account/


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## Ves (5 October 2012)

Julia said:


> Wilto, I'm a bit confused by your screenshot.
> It says "Market Value $56,647"  Change since last valuation % $50,852  :   +877.52%" ?????



Without working it out, I believe this is an "annualised gain."  Which, as you pointed out is a bit silly considering it is based on only two days worth of performance.


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## wilto (5 October 2012)

So_Cynical said:


> LOLs at the annualized gain...bit of a silly feature.
> 
> You know wilto you would of probably done just as well putting your money into that ANZ market tracking account, would of cost you a lot less in brokerage for roughly the same result.
> 
> http://www.anz.com/personal/investing-super/shares-managed-funds/online-investment-account/



You on a commish from anz?



Ves said:


> Without working it out, I believe this is an "annualised gain."  Which, as you pointed out is a bit silly considering it is based on only two days worth of performance.



Hey who cares, I got it for free, i'm sure you can relate too that.


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## So_Cynical (5 October 2012)

wilto said:


> You on a commish from anz?




Err no...just pointing out that ANZ have a cheap index tracking fund, your shares have gone up a little and the index has gone up a little = same result less brokerage x 12


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## Julia (5 October 2012)

Ves said:


> Without working it out, I believe this is an "annualised gain."  Which, as you pointed out is a bit silly considering it is based on only two days worth of performance.



Exactly.



So_Cynical said:


> Err no...just pointing out that ANZ have a cheap index tracking fund, your shares have gone up a little and the index has gone up a little = same result less brokerage x 12



And making a perfectly valid point.



wilto said:


> You on a commish from anz?
> Hey who cares, I got it for free, i'm sure you can relate too that.



Something being free doesn't necessarily represent good value.  The annualised gain imo is quite silly and would be inclined to give an inexperienced person a false sense of success.


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## burglar (5 October 2012)

wilto said:


> ... Hey who cares, I got it for free, i'm sure you can relate too that.




I can relate to that, you got it for free!
You are free to ignore that one little tiny inconsequential bit of an otherwise perfect tool!

I must be an experienced person because I can see an excellent use for annuallised percentage.
It would allow me to compare two trades which I had held for vastly differing time scales!


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## pixel (6 October 2012)

burglar said:


> I can relate to that, you got it for free!
> You are free to ignore that one little tiny inconsequential bit of an otherwise perfect tool!
> 
> I must be an experienced person because I can see an excellent use for annuallised percentage.
> It would allow me to compare two trades which I had held for vastly differing time scales!




I use a different rate: "Return on Investment *per day*"
The intuitive reason why I chose that number: "It's a Jungle out there; leaving my money at the mercy of market manipulation must be worth it, and I want the best and safest return over the shortest period of time."


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## burglar (6 October 2012)

pixel said:


> I use a different rate: "Return on Investment *per day*"
> The intuitive reason why I chose that number: "It's a Jungle out there; leaving my money at the mercy of market manipulation must be worth it, and I want the best and safest return over the shortest period of time."




I once asked my mentor about reasonable returns in the market.
He replied that it used to be 100%PA when he started, but now around 40%.

So now I need to make 41.5% twice, compounded, to get 100%.

Then I hear from Rene Rivkin:
If your shares haven't done what you want inside six weeks, you've got it wrong.

So I put the two ideas together.

I like to get 41.5% after brokerage, inside six weeks. 
Then reinvest and try to get the same again.
Twice in one year, not impossible!

And if I can only manage 19% at a time,
I need four cycles per year to double.
Ahh. The power of compounding!!


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## So_Cynical (6 October 2012)

burglar said:


> I like to get 41.5% after brokerage, inside six weeks.
> Then reinvest and try to get the same again.
> Twice in one year, not impossible!




Not impossible and also not very likely....but yer whatever.


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## prawn_86 (6 October 2012)

burglar said:


> I like to get 41.5% after brokerage, inside six weeks.
> Then reinvest and try to get the same again.
> Twice in one year, not impossible!
> 
> ...




Would love to see some broker statements of this, even with the tickers blanked out. If you are doing this consistently without losers then it would make you one of the best traders going


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## wilto (6 October 2012)

notting said:


> Timing seems to be pretty good.
> There are not that many financial crises like this one and this one is pretty much solved with all the monopoly money.
> May want to start exiting when inflation suddenly starts to rear it's head all over the joint!




This thought is on my radar. ok I was lucky, the day i chose to "invest" the markets where down, then they have been up every day since.


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## wilto (6 October 2012)

Why is everyone so hung up about the annualised gain on the yahoo portfolio manger, I can't change it , it comes with the program. sheeez! You financial people are a fikle lot.


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## CanOz (6 October 2012)

wilto said:


> Why is everyone so hung up about the annualised gain on the yahoo portfolio manger, I can't change it , it comes with the program. sheeez! You financial people are a fikle lot.




I think it would be kinda good if your exit plan used an index. For example, you could exit so many positions if the index rolled back and closed below a 50 Moving Average.



CanOz


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## burglar (6 October 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> Would love to see some broker statements of this, even with the tickers blanked out. If you are doing this consistently without losers then it would make you one of the best traders going




I have rarely done it, ...
And then only with a portion of my holdings.

But it is not impossible!


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## burglar (6 October 2012)

Here goes!
Three closed winners, three open losers.
But the year isn't over yet!


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## burglar (18 October 2012)

prawn_86 said:


> Would love to see some broker statements of this, even with the tickers blanked out. ...




Why would I want the tickers blanked out?


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## Geckoo (26 December 2014)

wilto said:


> View attachment 49188




That's awesome, looks like you're winging it!!


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