# U.S. Presidential Election 2020



## Joe Blow (25 October 2020)

With less than a week and a half to go until the 2020 U.S. Presidential Election, it's probably time to start a thread on the topic.

2020 has been one of the strangest years in a long time, and I have no doubt that the Trump/Biden election will play out in an unorthodox way.

Please post any predictions, comments or observations in this thread.


----------



## Knobby22 (25 October 2020)

It better not be a close result. All hell will break loose.


----------



## basilio (25 October 2020)

What !! Not another endless political thread to beat  up unsuspecting pixels on the the insanity called the US political system.

Give me strength ...


----------



## SirRumpole (25 October 2020)

I have an awful feeling Trump may win again.

But then , I'm usually wrong. This time  I hope so.


----------



## moXJO (26 October 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> I have an awful feeling Trump may win again.
> 
> But then , I'm usually wrong. This time  I hope so.



Biden still just ahead. So long as nothing comes up in the data dump, he should get the job done.


----------



## Joe Blow (26 October 2020)

basilio said:


> What !! Not another endless political thread to beat  up unsuspecting pixels on the the insanity called the US political system.




This election was going to be discussed anyway, better to have the discussion in one place rather than in multiple other threads.

And unlike most political threads, the outcome of this presidential election *will* move markets, so it will be interesting to hear people's views on the implications that either possible outcome will have for financial markets.


----------



## Joules MM1 (26 October 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> It better not be a close result. All hell will break loose.




c'mon @Knobby22   ...it's 2020 all-hell already broke loose, just having @Joe Blow  start this thread was big give-away on that .....

lanslide victory for mine

@Joe Blow  can we start a thread similar to the monthly stock comp on who is going to win the US election?

@debtfree  might be up for it


----------



## moXJO (26 October 2020)

I'll put Biden for the win and Harris for the steal.


----------



## Joe Blow (26 October 2020)

Joules MM1 said:


> @Joe Blow  can we start a thread similar to the monthly stock comp on who is going to win the US election?




I just created a poll in this thread where people can vote for who they think will win. Anyone who wants to bet on (or just nominate/discuss) winning margins etc. can post their predictions in this thread.


----------



## Smurf1976 (26 October 2020)

My prediction is Biden wins but the process is messy with accusations of the vote being rigged etc.

For the markets I'm thinking a move up quickly followed by a significant top once there's a definite winner. That applies regardless of which side wins.

Confidence in that prediction = low. We're in very strange times - expect the unexpected........


----------



## sptrawler (26 October 2020)

I think Biden, no one can come through the media barrage Trump has had, without severe perception damage.
As for the markets, initially a surge as company earnings will be expected to rise, then a crash as the long term trajectory of the U.S economy sinks in.


----------



## wayneL (26 October 2020)

My gut feeling is Trump, perhaps it's just hope. I feel a Biden victory will mean a profound nose dive as the extreme left of the party exerts its influence.


----------



## PZ99 (26 October 2020)

I think Joe Biden will win the election but Donald Trump will remain as president


----------



## moXJO (26 October 2020)

I can't remember any president that has had as big rallies and convoys that were self organised for a president. That also had to weather violence and real life reputation consequences for supporting Trump.

Secondly GOP is gone once Trump goes. Trumpers don't really support Republicans. Its lost in the wilderness for a long time if he loses.


----------



## Dona Ferentes (26 October 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> For the markets I'm thinking a move up quickly followed by a significant top once there's a definite winner. That applies regardless of which side wins.
> 
> Confidence in that prediction = low. We're in very strange times - expect the unexpected........



and the winner is...


----------



## basilio (26 October 2020)

It will be a unique US election.

On current polls Trump should lose in a landslide. Huge early voting figures and movements against Trump across the political landscape (Seniors, traditional republican voters, suburban women) all point to decisive Biden victory - on the votes.

*On the other hand Trump has  said repeatedly that he regards mail in voting as fraudulent and that Biden "can only win by fraud".*

The game playing by the Republicans to date has been to
1) Suppress the early voting and mail in voting as much as possible through local ordnances and  limited polling opportunities.
2) Undermine the postal service to slow down  postal pre voting
3) Destroy public confidence in the validity of anything except a Trump victory.
4) Prepare as many strategies  as necessary to muddy or stop counting of votes if, as expected, they show a Trump loss.

These strategies are all in play becasue , unlike Australia, there isn't an independent  National electoral commission that takes responsibility for ensuring free and fair elections.

The most troubling outcome is a  very strong Biden vote that is disputed by  Trump and effectively causes a stalemate in  the political process of deciding who is the legitimate President.  From a business POV  the uncertainty  would be disastrous. On top of that the social turmoil of millions of armed Trump supporters attempting "to protect their President" is the stuff of  dystopian nightmares.

If there was a truly overwhelmingly  rejection of Trump it may be impossible to deny the reality of the votes.  I think the recognition of the need for a* truly* overwhelming rejection of Trump in the face of his repeated undermining of the election is behind the very high voting figures and the substantial leakage of traditional Republican voters.

*And through all this COVID infections and deaths will skyrocket* as the administration   has made it clear they are not trying to rein in the epidemic.








						Trump aide admits 'we're not going to control pandemic' as Pence staff test positive
					

Senior aide Marc Short has virus but Pence will still campaign as US comes close to new daily record for coronavirus cases




					www.theguardian.com
				



-----------------------------------------------
Some interesting observations of Trump by journalists, ex staff and his niece. They do point to a man who has no boundaries and will do what he has to hold onto power. 









						'Deep down, he's a terrified little boy': Bob Woodward, John Bolton and others on Trump
					

The authors of recent exposés, including Mary Trump and Anthony Scaramucci, on the president, his time in office – and what they expect to happen at the polls




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## moXJO (26 October 2020)

I think I saw early voting was something like 42%

Wasn't sure if that was a state or national.


----------



## basilio (26 October 2020)

* Nearly 60 million Americans cast early vote as record-shattering turnout expected *

People are ‘determined to express themselves’
Candidates scramble to deliver closing message









						Nearly 60 million Americans cast early vote as record-shattering turnout expected
					

Americans ‘determined to express themselves’ while candidates scramble to deliver closing message as election looms




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## wayneL (26 October 2020)

Dona Ferentes said:


> and the winner is...
> 
> View attachment 113693



I think you're right. El Presidente doesn't pull the strings really, as per my other post on BIS, IMF, & WEF etc


----------



## Dona Ferentes (26 October 2020)

moXJO said:


> I think I saw early voting was something like 42%
> 
> Wasn't sure if that was a state or national.



an astonishing 52 million people have already voted.

.... we are going to see a record voter turnout in this election. In 2016 about 137 million people voted.

This year, we could see about 160 million people vote, and the risk is on the upside.

The total electorate is about 260 million.

In short, the enthusiasm to actually vote is through the roof (some say this is unambiguously positive for the Democrats)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-infrequent-voters-insigh-idUSKBN276196


----------



## moXJO (26 October 2020)

The voting system in US means about 8 states matter as the rest are pretty set in voting patterns. 

Its mind boggling to think that even the experts are not sure which way its going to go.
It could be a landslide either direction.

Polls still tipping Biden.

But Trump is flying state to state to rally support. That's 3-4 rallies a day. His voters are energised.

Biden has well organised grassroots support. They have ballot harvesting down pat into a very efficient system . I think this will push him over the line in the end.


----------



## moXJO (26 October 2020)

Biden clear favourite on betting agencies as well.


----------



## Lucky777 (26 October 2020)

The young generation and alternative sources of media will pull in for the Trump victory. The left has been in power for decades, the young has “woke” and want change. Rather a simple life than a life of lies (media, newspapers, social media & tv)


----------



## basilio (26 October 2020)

moXJO said:


> Biden has well organised grassroots support. They have ballot harvesting down pat into a very efficient system . I think this will push him over the line in the end.




Indeed ! Very promising. Lets  look forward to a full and fair counting of all the votes in this election.  

If the Trump campaign believes it's story they have everything to gain from an election free of dirty tricks..


----------



## DB008 (26 October 2020)

I'm going with Trumpy to win.


Reminds of Trump v Clinton, how the media got it so wrong.


----------



## spooly74 (26 October 2020)

Florida is staying Red based on early voting compared to the last election.
In 2016, D's had a lead of 88K from early voting and Trump won > 110,000 on the day.
This year looks like it'll be evens on election day and with a larger % of hispanic vote, Dems will be blown away.


----------



## Knobby22 (26 October 2020)

spooly74 said:


> Florida is staying Red based on early voting compared to the last election.
> In 2016, D's had a lead of 88K from early voting and Trump won > 110,000 on the day.
> This year looks like it'll be evens on election day and with a larger % of hispanic vote, Dems will be blown away.




Where is your news source?  Dems winning so far from what I can find.











						‘Warning flare’: New swing-state data shows massive Democratic early-vote lead
					

In a worrisome sign for Republicans, Democrats are also turning out more low-frequency and newly registered voters than the GOP.




					www.politico.com


----------



## macca (26 October 2020)

I think it is a rerun of last time, polls will be wrong again


----------



## SirRumpole (26 October 2020)

macca said:


> I think it is a rerun of last time, polls will be wrong again




Did they have the same huge pre-poll turnout last time ?

I think a lot of people have made up their minds and I don't think it's good for Trump.


----------



## spooly74 (26 October 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Where is your news source?  Dems winning so far from what I can find.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Knobby22 (26 October 2020)

spooly74 said:


>




Huge swing to Trump in Florida! I would not put money on it.


----------



## bellenuit (26 October 2020)

Putin may be anticipating Biden win and is building bridges......

*Putin rejects Donald Trump's criticism of Biden family business*

*








						Putin rejects Donald Trump's criticism of Biden family business
					

Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Sunday that he saw nothing criminal in Hunter Biden's past business ties with Ukraine or Russia, marking out his disagreement with one of Donald Trump's attack lines in the U.S. presidential election.




					www.reuters.com
				



*


----------



## basilio (26 October 2020)

Just been watching the 60 minutes interview with Trump.

I cannot see how this will attract support from anyone bar totally one eyed Trump supporters. Honestly I can see hundreds of thousands of people who may have been Trump supporters in 2016 unable to vote the same way again.

And I can see hundreds of thousands of Republican  supporters also deciding this man is just not suitable to be President. Let's see what the next polls look like. I predict a 1-2% increase in Bidens vote as a consequence of these interviews.


----------



## IFocus (26 October 2020)

Biden clean sweep, white house, reps and senate.

Trumps populist gambit for power is over.  

As for markets it wont matter COVID will determine the economy and the fed will move the market. 

Remember the US economy fares better under Democrats than GOP and any talk of the left running  the White House is lacking knowledge of the system, history not to mention naïve.

Corporations run US politics who do you think pays the now billions for the election.


----------



## basilio (27 October 2020)

The only way the Republicans can hold office legally is systematically undermining the US electoral system to minimise  the voting capacity of people who won't vote Republican. This is behind the 1001 ways local officials create laws and practices that disenfranchise the (wrong) people from voting.
Check out who is doing this and how they work.

*This isn't a a two line story.* It has detail, facts and research into a long, sustained history of successful efforts to undermine the US electoral system.

* 'Just like propaganda': the three men enabling Trump's voter fraud lies *

Armed with their misleading data, these men have influenced and shaped laws making it harder to vote. From left: Hans von Spakovsky, J Christian Adams & Kris Kobach Photograph: Eric Audras/Getty Images/Onoky/Reuters/AP

The hysteria over voter fraud has reached an alarming pitch – and this dangerous moment in US democracy wouldn’t be possible without the work of these men
by  Sam Levine and  Spenser Mestel









						'Just like propaganda': the three men enabling Trump's voter fraud lies
					

The hysteria over voter fraud has reached an alarming pitch – and this dangerous moment in US democracy wouldn’t be possible without the work of these men




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## basilio (27 October 2020)

I think the overall public response  from the 60 minutes interviews with Trump and Biden will tip this election into a Biden landslide.
Trumps inability to articulate any sort of policy beyond  being re elected and his aggression against anything resembling  a "tough"question makes him completely unsuitable to be President.









						CBS releases footage of Trump walking out of 60 Minutes interview
					

US president halts recording after question about his use of social media and name-calling




					www.theguardian.com
				











						’60 Minutes’ Airs Controversial Trump Interview – With Fact-Checks
					

Lesley Stahl told President Trump up front: “You know, this is ’60 Minutes.’ And we can’t put on things we can’t verify.” On Sunday night, the show remained true…




					variety.com
				











						Fact check: Trump makes at least 16 false or misleading claims to '60 Minutes'
					

President Donald Trump continued his dishonesty blitz in an interview with Lesley Stahl of "60 Minutes."




					edition.cnn.com


----------



## Linus van Pelt (27 October 2020)

A couple interesting articles showed up in my Google feed today.  The first one expresses concern about the legitimacy of the US election.









						Could rejected mail-in ballots cost Joe Biden the election? | Nathan Robinson
					

Donald Trump is the one who has complained most loudly about mail-in ballot problems. But problems with mailed ballots could in fact hurt Biden




					www.theguardian.com
				












						'Deep down, he's a terrified little boy': Bob Woodward, John Bolton and others on Trump
					

The authors of recent exposés, including Mary Trump and Anthony Scaramucci, on the president, his time in office – and what they expect to happen at the polls




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## basilio (27 October 2020)

Fact checking the President.
	

		
			
		

		
	





*Fact check: Trump makes at least 16 false or misleading claims to '60 Minutes'*




By Daniel Dale, CNN

Updated 1347 GMT (2147 HKT) October 26, 2020










Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump continued his dishonesty blitz in an interview with Lesley Stahl of "60 Minutes."

An edited version of the interview aired on CBS Sunday night. Trump released the full 38-minute interview on Facebook on Thursday, pre-empting the network because he said he was unhappy with Stahl's questioning.

Despite Stahl's persistent efforts to challenge him, Trump made false or misleading claims about several topics on which he has been frequently deceptive in recent months -- most notably the coronavirus pandemic.

We counted at least 16 false or misleading claims in the extended footage Trump posted, 10 of them pandemic-related. Below is the full list. We've noted the instances in which the Trump quote we are checking is from the extended footage the President posted rather than the footage televised by CBS.








						Fact check: Trump makes at least 16 false or misleading claims to '60 Minutes'
					

President Donald Trump continued his dishonesty blitz in an interview with Lesley Stahl of "60 Minutes."




					edition.cnn.com


----------



## spooly74 (27 October 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Huge swing to Trump in Florida! I would not put money on it.



Got him at $2.80 for the win and $7 for 300-329 EC points


----------



## wayneL (27 October 2020)

Is it a bit dodgy to know the numbers before election day?


----------



## moXJO (27 October 2020)

basilio said:


> I think the overall public response  from the 60 minutes interviews with Trump and Biden will tip this election into a Biden landslide.
> Trumps inability to articulate any sort of policy beyond  being re elected and his aggression against anything resembling  a "tough"question makes him completely unsuitable to be President.
> 
> 
> ...



Stahl frequently asked questions and asserting things that were flat out wrong or misleading. 
Another to the list of why journalism has become a joke. And then you back up with CNN which pointed out that Stahl was misleading in questions. And that's CNN.

It won't change anyone's mind. In fact after Biden getting softballs in ever interview. This just reinforced that they are out to get Trump and ignore Bidens scandals.


----------



## basilio (27 October 2020)

moXJO said:


> Stahl frequently asked questions and asserting things that were flat out wrong or misleading.
> Another to the list of why journalism has become a joke. And then you back up with CNN which pointed out that Stahl was misleading in questions. And that's CNN.




*This is just untrue. *Trumps mantra which you seem to have swallowed is flat out rejection of "Main Stream"  media*. *Instead Trump supporters are supposed to echo Trumps statements and anything that supports that. 

CNN fact checked the Trump interview and outlined *16 specific lies or misleading statements *he made. They backed up their claims with independent evidence which comes up in hot links in their answer. Why not actually demonstrate which of of these rebuttals is incorrect and the evidence that backs up that rebuttal ? I'll give you a start.

*Cases and testing*
Trump claimed that coronavirus cases are rising simply "because we're doing so much testing."
"If we didn't do testing, cases would be way down," he added in the extended footage.

*Facts First*: _It's not true that the US is only seeing an __increase in cases__ because the number of tests has increased. Trump also __used this refrain__ during previous spikes in the number of cases; it was also false then._
While the number of daily tests has indeed been rising, there is no doubt there has been an increase in the actual spread of the virus, not just that more cases are being captured. One telltale sign is that hospitalizations are also rising, setting records in some states. Also, the percentage of US tests coming back positive has also been rising since late September. And deaths have started to rise again, too, after the usual lag following the spike in cases.









						Fact check: Trump makes at least 16 false or misleading claims to '60 Minutes'
					

President Donald Trump continued his dishonesty blitz in an interview with Lesley Stahl of "60 Minutes."




					edition.cnn.com


----------



## moXJO (27 October 2020)

basilio said:


> *This is just untrue. *Trumps mantra which you seem to have swallowed is flat out rejection of "Main Stream"  media*. *Instead Trump supporters are supposed to echo Trumps statements and anything that supports that.
> 
> CNN fact checked the Trump interview and outlined *16 specific lies or misleading statements *he made. They backed up their claims with independent evidence. Why not actually demonstrate which of of these rebuttals is incorrect and the evidence that backs up that rebuttal ?
> 
> ...



I said Stahl was misleading and even cnn pointed it out. Read your own article.


----------



## basilio (27 October 2020)

moXJO said:


> I said Stahl was misleading and even cnn pointed it out. Read your own article.




Che ??  Please point out where in analysis of  the 16 Trump false/misleading claimns  where it says Stahl was misleading. (Actually I'll just quote the whole article in my next post)
How about addressing the herd of elephants tramping through the article - the lies and misinformation peddled by Trump?
You can start with the one I highlighted above.


----------



## basilio (27 October 2020)

*Fact check: Trump makes at least 16 false or misleading claims to '60 Minutes'*





By Daniel Dale, CNN

Updated 1347 GMT (2147 HKT) October 26, 2020










Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump continued his dishonesty blitz in an interview with Lesley Stahl of "60 Minutes."

An edited version of the interview aired on CBS Sunday night. Trump released the full 38-minute interview on Facebook on Thursday, pre-empting the network because he said he was unhappy with Stahl's questioning.

Despite Stahl's persistent efforts to challenge him, Trump made false or misleading claims about several topics on which he has been frequently deceptive in recent months -- most notably the coronavirus pandemic.

We counted at least 16 false or misleading claims in the extended footage Trump posted, 10 of them pandemic-related. Below is the full list. We've noted the instances in which the Trump quote we are checking is from the extended footage the President posted rather than the footage televised by CBS.

*Cases and testing*
Trump claimed that coronavirus cases are rising simply "because we're doing so much testing."
"If we didn't do testing, cases would be way down," he added in the extended footage.

*Facts First*: _It's not true that the US is only seeing an __increase in cases__ because the number of tests has increased. Trump also __used this refrain__ during previous spikes in the number of cases; it was also false then._

While the number of daily tests has indeed been rising, there is no doubt there has been an increase in the actual spread of the virus, not just that more cases are being captured. One telltale sign is that hospitalizations are also rising, setting records in some states. Also, the percentage of US tests coming back positive has also been rising since late September. And deaths have started to rise again, too, after the usual lag following the spike in cases.

*"The corner"*
Stahl pointed out that people can see for themselves that it's not true when he repeatedly claims we have "turned the corner" on the pandemic and that it is "disappearing." Trump responded, "That's right, we have turned the corner."

*Facts First*: _Stahl was right, Trump was wrong. Again, US pandemic numbers -- newly confirmed __cases__, __hospitalizations__, the test positivity rate, deaths -- are all getting worse, not better. There is just no basis for his vague claim that we are rounding some sort of corner in a positive direction._

*Trump's comments about Fauci*
Stahl said, "You called Dr. Fauci and other health officials idiots." Trump responded, "Where did I call him an idiot?"

*Facts First*:_ This was misleading at best. On a phone call with campaign staff on Monday, with reporters from CNN and other outlets listening in, Trump __said__, "People are tired of hearing Fauci and these idiots, all these idiots who got it wrong." _

Trump could perhaps make an argument that he was distinguishing Dr. Anthony Fauci from the unnamed "these idiots" he was referring to, but that's a stretch. (And Trump went on to tell Stahl that Fauci has "been wrong a lot," which is how he was defining "idiots" in the phone call.)

*Trump rallies and masks*
Stahl told Trump that she couldn't believe that, after so many people who attended his White House event for Supreme Court nominee Amy Coney Barrett in September got sick with the coronavirus, Trump still doesn't strongly encourage his rally attendees to wear masks.
Trump correctly noted that masks are handed out at the rallies. But he also said in the extended footage, "Well, have you been looking? Yesterday, take a look at, uh, take a look yesterday in Arizona. Everybody behind me had a mask." When she mentioned his Wisconsin rally, Trump said, "A lot of people had masks and it was outside."

*Facts First*: _Trump's comments were misleading. A large percentage of the people at his __two__ Arizona __rallies__ last Monday and at his most recent __Wisconsin__ rally, in Janesville last Saturday, were not wearing masks. And it's an exaggeration to claim that "everybody" standing behind him in Arizona was wearing a mask; most of those people were, but some __weren't__. _

Reporters who cover Trump rallies also noted that there is often more mask-wearing among the people standing behind him, who will be on camera as he speaks, than there is in the rest of the crowd.

*Trump and a "lock her up" chant *
Trump repeatedly denied that he had endorsed the idea of locking up Democratic Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer. He said in the extended footage, "When did I say lock her up? When did I say lock up the governor? I never said lock up the governor." After some back-and-forth with Stahl, which aired in the televised version, he said, "Lesley, that's such a vicious thing you just said. I didn't say lock up the governor of Michigan. I would never say that. Why would I say that?"

*Facts First*: _This was highly misleading. At Trump's __rally__ in Michigan last Saturday, his criticism of Whitmer prompted the crowd to chant "lock her up." He interjected during the chant to say, "Lock 'em all up."_

So while he did not explicitly say the words "lock up the governor of Michigan," he at least strongly suggested that he was endorsing the idea.

*Whitmer and a lockdown*
Trump claimed of Whitmer, "They're not liking her so much cause she's got everybody locked down."

*Facts First*: _That's not true. While Whitmer still has some significant pandemic-related restrictions, she is not currently imposing anything that can fairly be described as a "lockdown." Whitmer __lifted__ her stay-at-home order on June 1._

The Detroit Free Press published a handy rundown on what happened next: "Bars and restaurants across the state reopened shortly after the order was lifted followed by barbershops, spas and hair and nail salons in mid-June. Casinos in Detroit were allowed to reopen in early August. Schools across the state reopened this fall for in-person learning. And Whitmer allowed gyms to reopen in early September and movie theaters and bowling alleys to reopen in early October."

There are still capacity limits on various kinds of Michigan establishments. For example, restaurants and bars are capped at 50% of the usual limit for indoor seating.
Earlier in October, Michigan's Supreme Court struck down as unconstitutional an emergency law from 1945 that Whitmer had relied on to impose pandemic orders. But her administration then imposed similar orders under the state's public health code.

*Coronavirus restrictions in Pennsylvania and North Carolina*
In the extended footage, Trump also accused the Democratic governors of Pennsylvania and North Carolina of imposing a lockdown on their residents.
*Facts First*: _Neither state is locked down._

Since July 3, all 67 counties in Pennsylvania have been in the third stage, "green," of Gov. Tom Wolf's three-stage pandemic plan. The green phase includes significant restrictions on many businesses -- such as 50% occupancy limits for bars, restaurants, barbershops, gyms and malls -- but these businesses are up and running, not shut down.

And school districts are permitted to decide for themselves whether to have in-school or remote instruction.
North Carolina Gov. Roy Cooper moved the state to "Phase 3" on October 2, easing his previous restrictions.

There are, as in other states, restrictions still in effect. Mass gatherings are limited to 25 people indoors and 50 people outdoors; restaurants are limited to 50% capacity; bars are limited to 30% outdoor capacity or 100 people, whichever is less; gyms are limited to 30% capacity. But it's inaccurate to call this a lockdown.

"The Governor has implemented a dimmer switch approach to easing restrictions responsibly that allows people to get back to work and move our economy forward while keeping people safe," press secretary Dory MacMillan said in an email.

*Job creation*
Trump boasted about what he described as record job creation of 11.4 million jobs in the last five months.
*Facts First*: _This is misleading. While it's true that the 11.4 million jobs added over five months is a record, Trump left out the fact that there was a much larger record loss of __about 22.2 million jobs__ over the two months prior. In other words, as of August, the country was still down more than 10.7 million jobs since March. (And as of September, the economy was __down__ about 3.9 million jobs since the beginning of Trump's presidency.)_

Also, many of the 11.4 million jobs "added" since May simply represent people returning to their previous jobs, from which they had been temporarily laid off. And the pace of the jobs recovery slowed significantly in September, with 661,000 jobs added -- down from about 1.5 million in August.

*A death estimate*
Defending his handling of the pandemic, Trump, in the extended footage, repeated his false claim that "2.2 million people were supposed to die."
*Facts First*: _Trump wrongly described this 2.2 million statistic._

Trump was likely citing a report published in March by scholars from the Imperial College in London that predicted that a total of 2.2 million Americans could die from Covid-19 if no preventative measures were taken by any US government or individual to try to stop the spread of the virus.
In other words, this figure was an extreme, worst-case scenario if the authorities did absolutely nothing to address the virus, not an expectation.

*Trump's travel restrictions*
In the extended footage, Trump again said of his travel restrictions on China and Europe: "I closed it very early from China, heavily infected, and even from Europe, heavily infected."
*Facts First*: _Trump was exaggerating. While Trump did restrict travel from __China__ and from __much of Europe__, neither policy was an actual "ban." Both policies made exemptions for travel by US citizens, permanent residents, many of the family members of both groups, and some others -- and the restrictions on Europe exempted entire European countries._

The New York Times reported April 4 that nearly 40,000 people had flown to the US from China since the restrictions went into effect in early February.

*Biden and health care *
Trump claimed in the extended footage that, under a Biden administration, "180 million people will lose their health care" from private insurers.
*Facts First*: _This is false. Former Vice President Joe Biden has been a vocal opponent of the "Medicare for All" single-payer proposals that would eliminate most private insurance plans. In fact, Biden and Sen. Bernie Sanders, a leading proponent of single-payer health care, clashed repeatedly on the issue during the Democratic primary. Biden is __proposing__ a "public option" that would allow people to voluntarily move to a Medicare-style government program._

It's possible that, over time, a popular public option would affect private insurers' willingness to offer some private plans. But Trump is suggesting Biden is actively proposing to wipe out private insurance, and that's not the case at all.

*The individual mandate*
Trump boasted in the extended footage about how he "terminated" Obamacare's individual mandate, saying that this "actually makes Obamacare not Obamacare." He continued, "So Obamacare essentially was terminated, as we know it. Now we have the carcass of Obamacare."
*Facts First*: _This is false. The individual mandate, which required Americans to obtain health insurance, was indeed a key part of Obamacare -- but key parts of the law remain in effect. For example, Trump has not eliminated Obamacare's protections for people with pre-existing conditions, its expansion of the Medicaid insurance program for low-income people, the federal and state marketplaces that allow people to shop for coverage, or the consumer subsidies that help many of them make the purchases._

In addition, Trump has not literally eliminated the mandate. Rather, in his 2017 tax overhaul, he reduced the penalty for violating the mandate to $0. This might seem pedantic, but the existence of a tax penalty that does not raise any revenue is a central issue in the legal case in which Trump's administration is trying to get the Supreme Court to strike down the entirety of Obamacare as unconstitutional.

*Trump's health care plan*
Trump promised, as he has in the past, that he will introduce a great health care plan to replace Obamacare, which he is trying to get the courts to invalidate. When Stahl asked why we haven't seen this plan, Trump said in the extended footage, "You have seen it. I've been putting out pieces all over the place."

*Facts First*: _This is false. As Trump acknowledged at other moments of the interview, he has not yet released a plan._

Seeking to assure Americans who benefit from Obamacare's protections for people with pre-existing conditions, Trump signed an executive order in September declaring that it is US policy "to ensure that Americans with pre-existing conditions can obtain the insurance of their choice at affordable rates." But this order does not have any practical force. And the health care "vision" he introduced in September, in which he laid out other broad principles, is also not even close to a comprehensive plan.

*Biden and the suburbs*
Trump claimed in the extended footage, "I'm saving suburbia. He's gonna destroy suburbia. He's got a regulation, which I terminated, that he would put back, and even worse, that will destroy -- that will bring low-income housing projects into suburbia."

*Facts First*: _Trump was exaggerating again. The Obama-era regulation Trump was referring to would not destroy the suburbs; the rule, known as Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing, is an update to a decades-old federal requirement aimed to eliminate discrimination and combat segregation in housing. It does not mandate low-income housing to be built in suburban areas. _

*Trump's plea to suburban women*
Stahl told Trump, "You said the other day to suburban women, 'Will you please like me? Please?" She used a pleading tone of voice in repeating Trump's comment.

Trump responded, "Oh, I didn't say that. You know, that's so misleading the way -- I say jokingly, 'Suburban women, you should love me because I'm giving you security. And I got rid of the worst regulation.'" He repeated that he had made the comment "kiddingly," not as if he was "begging."

*Facts First*: _Stahl did exaggerate in her tone -- Trump didn't make this October 13 remark in quite such a sad-sack voice -- but there was no indication Trump was kidding at the time._
He said at a rally in Pennsylvania: "So can I ask you to do me a favor. Suburban women, will you please like me?" The crowd cheered, and Trump said, "Please. Please." You can watch the clip here.

Trump has a history of claiming that his past serious remarks were mere jokes or sarcasm.

*Obama, Biden and spying*
After Stahl asked Trump if he wants to lock up former President Barack Obama, Trump said in the extended footage, "No, I don't wanna lock him up, but he spied on my campaign. Obama and Biden spied on my campaign."
*Facts First*: _This is baseless. There is __no evidence__ Biden or Obama had any personal role in ordering the FBI surveillance of Trump's campaign, which came as part of its investigation of the campaign's relationship with Russia. _


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (27 October 2020)

basilio said:


> *Fact check: Trump makes at least 16 false or misleading claims to '60 Minutes'*
> View attachment 113771
> 
> By Daniel Dale, CNN
> ...



I agree with all your points even though I haven't read them all, its been over the news time and time again. (Shades of Bill Shorten )

One of the sad things for me about this US presidential election is that after it, no matter who wins, a large section of former admirers of the USA and its institutions will be wary.

The fact that in succeeding elections, this and the last, Trump was elected as the Republican candidate is just plain strange to me, then to be elected President even stranger.

On a par is that the Democrats in 2016 elected such a divisive angry woman such as Hillary Clinton to lose to Trump.

Worse, the choice for Americans is now Trump or an ageing, cognitively impaired, dead man walking radical Joe Biden.

Bugger America.

gg


----------



## moXJO (27 October 2020)

*



			Trump's comments about Fauci
		
Click to expand...


*


> Stahl said, "You called Dr. Fauci and other health officials idiots." Trump responded, "Where did I call him an idiot?"




No he didn't.  That's a fact. Called a lot of people idiots, but he hasn't called Fauci one.


*Obama, Biden and spying
After Stahl asked Trump if he wants to lock up former President Barack Obama, Trump said in the extended footage, "No, I don't wanna lock him up, but he spied on my campaign. Obama and Biden spied on my campaign."*


Under the Obama administration, the FBI launched an investigation into the Trump campaign. Obama was made aware and briefed with a redacted version(allegedly, according to comey) after it was conducted though.

That's not so black and white



*Trump's plea to suburban women
Stahl told Trump, "You said the other day to suburban women, 'Will you please like me? Please?" She used a pleading tone of voice in repeating Trump's comment.

Trump responded, "Oh, I didn't say that. You know, that's so misleading the way -- I say jokingly, 'Suburban women, you should love me because I'm giving you security. And I got rid of the worst regulation.'" He repeated that he had made the comment "kiddingly," not as if he was "begging."*


He said it at a rally. Stahl was misleading.



*Biden and the suburbs
Trump claimed in the extended footage, "I'm saving suburbia. He's gonna destroy suburbia. He's got a regulation, which I terminated, that he would put back, and even worse, that will destroy -- that will bring low-income housing projects into suburbia."

Facts First: Trump was exaggerating again. The Obama-era regulation Trump was referring to would not destroy the suburbs; the rule, known as Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing, is an update to a decades-old federal requirement aimed to eliminate discrimination and combat segregation in housing. It does not mandate low-income housing to be built in suburban areas.*




Not an exaggeration. Depending on where it takes place and the rezoning that will no doubt happen. It will very likely destroy the character of many suburb's. 





*Trump's travel restrictions
In the extended footage, Trump again said of his travel restrictions on China and Europe: "I closed it very early from China, heavily infected, and even from Europe, heavily infected."
Facts First: Trump was exaggerating. While Trump did restrict travel from China and from much of Europe*_*, neither policy was an actual "ban." Both policies made exemptions for travel by US citizens, permanent residents, many of the family members of both groups, and some others -- and the restrictions on Europe exempted entire European countries.*_


So he took US citizens and residents back. And did in fact stop travel from China and Europe early on. Many that were evacuated from Hubei province in China were quarantined in a military base. Others were made to home isolate as per cdc rules.

*Job creation
Trump boasted about what he described as record job creation of 11.4 million jobs in the last five months.
Facts First: This is misleading. While it's true that the 11.4 million jobs added over five months is a record, Trump left out the fact that there was a much larger record loss of about 22.2 million jobs over the two months prior. In other words, as of August, the country was still down more than 10.7 million jobs since March. (And as of September, the economy was down*_* about 3.9 million jobs since the beginning of Trump's presidency.)*_

No the statement is true.  Same way Obama used the gfc turnaround. Funny how left suddenly realised its actually misleading when you are quoting figures that show you have actually just let the economy go back to the ground floor. Obama used the same bull**** logic. I'd say Trumps COVID-19 pandemic was a lot worse then the gfc.
So statement stands.

*Coronavirus restrictions in Pennsylvania and North Carolina
In the extended footage, Trump also accused the Democratic governors of Pennsylvania and North Carolina of imposing a lockdown on their residents.
Facts First: *_*Neither state is locked down.*_

I haven't watched this but lockdowns were found to be unconstitutional in Pennsylvania and struck down from memory.  So a lockdown was imposed on them.
As far as restrictions go they are a lockdown from most of the freedom loving crowd in the US. So this really depends on how you ask. You ask a business affected or a libertarian- and they will tell you lockdown of freedoms.

The rest all depends on how much info you want to go through to prove one way or the other. Most of the interview was misleading. If you dig most of these things then there is a lot more to it then these base ass gotcha questions.
Did trump mislead yeah he did. But nothing the media didn't throw back in kind. It all depends where you stand.

I can't be bothered doing a type up of the rest.


----------



## satanoperca (27 October 2020)

"*Obama, Biden and spying
After Stahl asked Trump if he wants to lock up former President Barack Obama, Trump said in the extended footage, "No, I don't wanna lock him up, but he spied on my campaign. Obama and Biden spied on my campaign."* 

Is that Illegal for a presiding president to check the security of a candidate that has links to Russia and China?

Seems natural to me. Maybe Chump man is a little paranoid.


----------



## moXJO (27 October 2020)

satanoperca said:


> "*Obama, Biden and spying
> After Stahl asked Trump if he wants to lock up former President Barack Obama, Trump said in the extended footage, "No, I don't wanna lock him up, but he spied on my campaign. Obama and Biden spied on my campaign."*
> 
> Is that Illegal for a presiding president to check the security of a candidate that has links to Russia and China?
> ...



It should be. The way it was done however showed the fbi exceeded their authority. This coupled with the dodgy way the pee pee dossier was procured showed something was seriously off. All the people charged were not charged from collusion but perjury traps. I'd be paranoid too.


----------



## satanoperca (27 October 2020)

No wonder his a little paranoid, pretty close to home.
*Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort: Sentenced to seven and a half years in prison for financial crimes
His Mate Roger Stone sentence to 6 years, overturned by the Chump man himself

Cannot read anymore, seems Chump is the swamp*


----------



## orr (27 October 2020)

“. . . All Enemies, Foreign and Domestic”: An Open Letter to Gen. Milley
*If the commander in chief attempts to ignore the election’s results, you will face a choice.*


By JOHN NAGL and PAUL YINGLING
AUGUST 11, 2020

COMMENTARY
WHITE HOUSE
PENTAGON
CONGRESS
2020 ELECTIONS

Dear General Milley: 
As chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, you are well aware of your duties in ordinary times: to serve as principal military advisor to the president of the United States, and to transmit the lawful orders of the president and Secretary of Defense to combatant commanders. In ordinary times, these duties are entirely consistent with your oath to “support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic…” 
We do not live in ordinary times. The president of the United States is actively subverting our electoral system, threatening to remain in office in defiance of our Constitution. In a few months’ time, you may have to choose between defying a lawless president or betraying your Constitutional oath. We write to assist you in thinking clearly about that choice. If Donald Trump refuses to leave office at the expiration of his constitutional term, the United States military must remove him by force, and you must give that order. 
Due to a dangerous confluence of circumstances, the once-unthinkable scenario of authoritarian rule in the United States is now a very real possibility. First, as Mr. Trump faces near certain electoral defeat, he is vigorously undermining public confidence in our elections. Second, Mr. Trump’s defeat would result in his facing not merely political ignominy, but also criminal charges. Third, Mr. Trump is assembling a private army capable of thwarting not only the will of the electorate but also the capacities of ordinary law enforcement. When these forces collide on January 20, 2021, the U.S. military will be the only institution capable of upholding our Constitutional order.
There can be little doubt that Mr. Trump is facing electoral defeat. More than 160,000 Americans have died from COVID 19, and that toll is likely to rise to 300,000 by November. One in ten U.S. workers is unemployed, and the U.S. economy in the last quarter suffered the greatest contraction in its history. Nearly 70 percent of Americans believe the country is on the wrong track. _The Economist_ estimates that Mr. Trump’s chances of losing the election stand at 91 percent.



Related articles
The Military Won’t Save Us – and You Shouldn’t Want Them To
Who Decides Who Is a ‘Domestic Enemy’?
Milley's Chance to Right His ‘Mistake’
Faced with these grim prospects, Mr. Trump has engaged in a systemic disinformation campaign to undermine public confidence in our elections. He has falsely claimed that mail-in voting is  “inaccurate and fraudulent.” He is actively sabotaging the U.S. Postal Service in an effort to delay and discredit mail-in votes. He has suggested delaying the 2020 election, despite lacking the authority to do so. 
The stakes of the 2020 election are especially high for Mr. Trump; in defeat, he will likely face criminal prosecution. The Manhattan District Attorney is investigating the Trump Organization for possible bank and insurance fraud related to the overvaluation of financial assets. New York’s Attorney General is conducting similar investigations, having successfully subpoenaed Trump’s financial records from Deutsche Bank. Mr. Trump allegedly pressured the U.S. ambassador to Great Britain to pressure the British Government to move the British Open golf tournament to Trump Turnberry Resort in Scotland. This incident is but one of many examples of self-dealing that may lead to federal criminal charges against the president.
Given this dizzying array of threats not merely to his political prospects, but also his liberty and wealth, Mr. Trump is following the playbook of dictators throughout history: he is building a private army answerable only to him. When Caesar faced the prospect of a trial in Rome, he did not return to face his day in court. He unleashed an army personally loyal to him alone on the Roman government. No student of history, Mr. Trump nevertheless appears to be following Caesar’s example. The president’s use of militarized Homeland Security agents against domestic political demonstrations constitutes the creation of a paramilitary force unaccountable to the public. The members of this private army, often lacking police insignia or other identification, exist not to enforce the law but to intimidate the president’s political opponents.


These powerful crosscurrents—Mr. Trump’s electoral defeat, his assault on the integrity of our elections, his impending criminal prosecution, and his creation of a private army—will collide on January 20. Rather than accept the peaceful transfer of power that has been the hallmark of American democracy since its inception. Mr. Trump may refuse to leave office. He would likely offer as a fig leaf of legitimacy the shopworn lies about election fraud. Mr. Trump’s acolytes in right-wing media will certainly rush to repeat and amplify these lies, manufacturing sufficient evidence to provide a pretext of plausibility. America’s greatest Constitutional crisis since the Civil War will come about by a president who simply refuses to leave office. 
America’s political and legal institutions have so atrophied that they are ill-prepared for this moment. Senate Republicans, already reduced to supplicant status, will remain silent and inert, as much to obscure their complicity as to retain their majority. The Democrat-led House of Representatives will certify the Electoral College results, which Mr. Trump will dismiss as fake news. The courts, flooded with cases from both Democrats and Mr. Trump’s legal team, will take months working through the docket, producing reasoned rulings that Trump will alternately appeal and ignore.
Then the clock will strike 12:01 PM, January 20, 2021, and Donald Trump will be sitting in the Oval Office. The street protests will inevitably swell outside the White House, and the ranks of Trump’s private army will grow inside its grounds. The speaker of the House will declare the Trump presidency at an end, and direct the Secret Service and Federal Marshals to remove Trump from the premises. These agents will realize that they are outmanned and outgunned by Trump’s private army, and the moment of decision will arrive.
At this moment of Constitutional crisis, only two options remain. Under the first, U.S. military forces escort the former president from the White House grounds. Trump’s little green men, so intimidating to lightly armed federal law enforcement agents, step aside and fade away, realizing they would not constitute a good morning’s work for a brigade of the 82nd Airborne. Under the second, the U.S. military remains inert while the Constitution dies. The succession of government is determined by extralegal violence between Trump’s private army and street protesters; Black Lives Matter Plaza becomes Tahrir Square.
As the senior military officer of the United States, the choice between these two options lies with you. In the Constitutional crisis described above, your duty is to give unambiguous orders directing U.S. military forces to support the Constitutional transfer of power. Should you remain silent, you will be complicit in a _coup d’état_. You were rightly criticized for your prior active complicity in the president’s use of force against peaceful protesters in Lafayette Square. Your passive complicity in an extralegal seizure of political power would be far worse. 


For 240 years, the United States has been spared the horror of violent political succession. Imperfect though it may be, our Union has been moving toward greater perfection, from one peaceful transfer of power to the next. The rule of law created by our Constitution has made this miracle possible. However, our Constitutional order is not self-sustaining. Throughout our history, Americans have laid down their lives so that this form of government may endure. Continuing the unfinished work for which these heroes fell now falls to you. 
Lest you forget: 
“I, Mark A. Milley, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.”
The fate of our Republic may well depend upon your adherence to this oath. 
Respectfully yours,
John Nagl and Paul Yingling
_John Nagl is a retired Army officer and veteran of both Iraq wars.
Paul Yingling, a retired U.S. Army lieutenant colonel, served three tours in Iraq, another in Bosnia, and a fifth in Operation Desert Storm._


----------



## sptrawler (27 October 2020)

The good thing about the U.S election IMO, it makes very little difference to us.
If Trump wins, China reduce their imports of our resources, but U.S, U.K and Europe increase their imports.
If Biden wins, everything goes back to China importing more of our materials and everyones manufacturing going there.
So situation normal, for our lifetime and the inner city lefties get to sit back wallowing in their smugness, as the workers living standards go around the S bend. Lol


----------



## IFocus (27 October 2020)

sptrawler said:


> The good thing about the U.S election IMO, it makes very little difference to us.
> If Trump wins, China reduce their imports of our resources, but U.S, U.K and Europe increase their imports.
> If Biden wins, everything goes back to China importing more of our materials and everyones manufacturing going there.
> So situation normal, for our lifetime and the inner city lefties get to sit back wallowing in their smugness, as the workers living standards go around the S bend. Lol





Afraid not SP, Trump is undermining the western alliances and has no long term plan that's a very real threat to Australian interests with the increasing threat of Chinese aggression. 
Biden is seen as continuing the attempt to contain China but with western alliances and a more nuanced approach with the promise of longer term planning.

Trump has also shredded the government departments required to carry out the above.......that's bad for Australia.


----------



## sptrawler (28 October 2020)

IFocus said:


> Afraid not SP, Trump is undermining the western alliances and has no long term plan that's a very real threat to Australian interests with the increasing threat of Chinese aggression.
> Biden is seen as continuing the attempt to contain China but with western alliances and a more nuanced approach with the promise of longer term planning.
> 
> Trump has also shredded the government departments required to carry out the above.......that's bad for Australia.



Time will tell.


----------



## moXJO (28 October 2020)

sptrawler said:


> The good thing about the U.S election IMO, it makes very little difference to us.
> If Trump wins, China reduce their imports of our resources, but U.S, U.K and Europe increase their imports.
> If Biden wins, everything goes back to China importing more of our materials and everyones manufacturing going there.
> So situation normal, for our lifetime and the inner city lefties get to sit back wallowing in their smugness, as the workers living standards go around the S bend. Lol



Its actually better for us if Biden wins. Although we may need Labor in office.


----------



## DB008 (28 October 2020)

Stossel right on point once again


​


----------



## spooly74 (28 October 2020)

wayneL said:


> Is it a bit dodgy to know the numbers before election day?



Pretty sure these are registered Dem or Rep voters numbers. Whats they put on the ballot not known but can't imagine any Reps voting blue. Not sure you could say the same for the Dems, especially in other states with the "End the oil industry" comment from Sleepy.


----------



## basilio (28 October 2020)

What happens in Arizona will mirror the US.


* The Arizona county that could decide the future of Trump – and America *




 Phoenix rising


As part of a new series, the Guardian looks at Maricopa county’s transformation from conservative bastion to 2020 battleground

Lauren Gambino and  Maanvi Singh in Phoenix
 Tue 27 Oct 2020 02.15 EDT   Last modified on Tue 27 Oct 2020 16.45 EDT 


Shares
302




 Voters wear masks at the Maricopa county elections department in Phoenix, Arizona, on 15 October 2020. Photograph: Caitlin O’Hara/The Guardian

For years, Carlos Garcia would grab his bullhorn each afternoon and head downtown to the office of Joe Arpaio, the brash, hardline, anti-immigrant Maricopa county sheriff who became known as “the Donald Trump of Arizona”.

When Garcia’s protests began in 2007, just a handful of devoted activists joined him. A conservative firebrand, Arpaio was re-elected every four years by the mostly white residents of the state’s most populous county. He was seemingly untouchable.
But as Arpaio’s crusade against immigrants intensified, the backlash grew. “We literally went from five to 200,000 people,” Garcia said of the protests.

On 8 November 2016, the same night Donald Trump won the White House, Arizona finally ousted Arpaio. After nearly a quarter-century in power, the sheriff was undone by Latinos, young progressives and white voters who Garcia believes “felt shame over Maricopa’s reputation” as a hostile and intolerant place.









						The Arizona county that could decide the future of Trump – and America
					

As part of a new series, the Guardian looks at Maricopa county’s transformation from conservative bastion to 2020 battleground




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## basilio (28 October 2020)

spooly74 said:


> but can't imagine any Reps voting blue.




Really spooly ? You imagine that every Republican has become a bigoted , brainless, Trump voting zombie just itching  to vote this psychopathic criminal into power again to "complete the job" ?

So who do you think are running the score of Republicans against Trump movements ?








						Republican Voters Against Trump
					

These are Republicans, former Republicans, conservatives, and former Trump voters who can’t support Trump for president this fall.




					rvat.org
				











						The Lincoln Project: Home
					

The Lincoln Project is holding accountable those who would violate their oaths to the Constitution and would put others before Americans.




					lincolnproject.us


----------



## spooly74 (28 October 2020)

basilio said:


> Really spooly ? You imagine that every Republican has become a bigoted , brainless, Trump voting zombie just itching  to vote this psychopathic criminal into power again to "complete the job" ?
> 
> So who do you think are running the score of Republicans against Trump movements ?
> 
> ...



Yes, really.
No, I don't image that at all.
Just the other guy is a compromised, dementia puppet who I wouldn't trust to feed fish.


----------



## basilio (28 October 2020)

spooly74 said:


> Yes, really.
> No, I don't image that at all.
> Just the other guy is a compromised, dementia puppet who I wouldn't trust to feed fish.




Certainly an internally consistent POV. 
Bit troubling


----------



## basilio (28 October 2020)

The Guardian (like many other publications) has published an Editorial on why they believe Trump must be dumped.
Very powerful summary of the legacy this man has created in 4 short years.
*The Guardian view on the 2020 US elections It’s time to dump Trump. America’s only hope is Joe Biden*
Four years of deranged and unpredictable behaviour is proof that the current US president is uniquely unsuited to the job

Tue 27 Oct 2020 14.30 EDT   Last modified on Tue 27 Oct 2020 20.57 ED
633
 
* Comments*
797               
Donald Trump’s presidency has been a horror show that is ending with a pandemic that is out of control, an economic recession and deepening political polarisation. Mr Trump is the author of this disastrous denouement. He is also the political leader least equipped to deal with it. Democracy in the United States has been damaged by Mr Trump’s first term. It may not survive four more years.

If the Guardian had a vote, it would be cast to elect Joe Biden as president next Tuesday. Mr Biden has what it takes to lead the United States. Mr Trump does not. Mr Biden cares about his nation’s history, its people, its constitutional principles and its place in the world. Mr Trump does not. Mr Biden wants to unite a divided country. Mr Trump stokes an anger that is wearing it down.

The Republican presidential nominee is not, and has never been, a fit and proper person for the presidency. He has been accused of rape. He displays a brazen disregard for legal norms. In office, he has propagated lies and ignorance. It is astonishing that his financial interests appear to sway his outlook on the national interest. His government is cruel and mean. It effectively sanctioned the kidnapping and orphaning of migrant children by detaining them and deporting their parents. He has vilified whistleblowers and venerated war criminals.

Mr Trump trades in racism, misogyny, homophobia and transphobia. Telling the Proud Boys, a far-right group that has endorsed violence, to “stand back and stand by” was, in the words of Mr Biden, “a dog whistle about as big as a foghorn”. From the Muslim ban to building a wall on the Mexican border, the president is grounding his base in white supremacy. With an agenda of corporate deregulation and tax giveaways for the rich, Mr Trump is filling the swamp, not draining it.








						The Guardian view on the 2020 US elections: It’s time to dump Trump. America’s only hope is Joe Biden
					

Editorial: Four years of deranged and unpredictable behaviour is proof that the current US president is uniquely unsuited to the job




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## moXJO (28 October 2020)

basilio said:


> The Guardian (like many other publications) has published an Editorial on why they believe Trump must be dumped.
> Very powerful summary of the legacy this man has created in 4 short years.
> *The Guardian view on the 2020 US elections It’s time to dump Trump. America’s only hope is Joe Biden*
> Four years of deranged and unpredictable behaviour is proof that the current US president is uniquely unsuited to the job
> ...



You didn't really need to post that considering we absolutely know who the guardian is going to tell people to vote.
Not to mention the amount of bullsht in this article.


----------



## moXJO (28 October 2020)

spooly74 said:


> Pretty sure these are registered Dem or Rep voters numbers. Whats they put on the ballot not known but can't imagine any Reps voting blue. Not sure you could say the same for the Dems, especially in other states with the "End the oil industry" comment from Sleepy.




Bit of a worry on some red States flipping blue. 
They are being targeted with money, celebs and vote chasers.


----------



## spooly74 (28 October 2020)

moXJO said:


> Bit of a worry on some red States flipping blue.
> They are being targeted with money, celebs and vote chasers.



Possibly only PA.
But BLM & Antifa doing their best to get Trump over the line there.

and this ...
https://nytimes.com/2020/10/25/us/politics/pennsylvania-polls-biden-trump.html…


----------



## dutchie (28 October 2020)

basilio said:


> every Republican has become a bigoted , brainless, Trump voting zombie just itching  to vote this psychopathic criminal into power again to "complete the job" ?




That's what a bad case of T D S looks like folks.


----------



## basilio (28 October 2020)

moXJO said:


> You didn't really need to post that considering we absolutely know who the guardian is going to tell people to vote.
> Not to mention the amount of bullsht in this article.




Bit more gas lighting there Moxy ? "Trump dun nothing wrong". Biden is  senile. Look at Hunter ! xshite.

For the sake of evenhandedness on the topic of media editorials re the election let's look  at *USA Today* views.

*Background on USA Today.*

_Four years ago, the Editorial Board — an ideologically and demographically diverse group of journalists that is separate from the news staff and operates by consensus — *broke with tradition and took sides in the presidential race for the first time since USA TODAY was founded in 1982. *We urged readers not to vote for Donald Trump, calling the Republican nominee unfit for office because he lacked the “temperament, knowledge, steadiness and honesty that America needs from its presidents.” We stopped short, however, of an outright endorsement of Hillary Clinton, the Democratic nominee. *This year, the Editorial Board unanimously supports the election of Joe Biden, who offers a shaken nation a harbor of calm and competence.*_

It is a very detailed editorial , in fact,  far more of an indepth journalistic review of the two candidates.
They are evenhanded enough to give Mike Pence a column to explain why he thinks Donald Trump should be voted in

.Recent polls show that more than 90% of voters have decided between Biden and Trump, and nothing at this point will change their minds. This editorial is for those of you who are still uncertain about which candidate to vote for, or whether to vote at all. It’s also for those who settled on Trump but might be having last-minute doubts.
https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?url=https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/opinion/todaysdebate/2020/10/20/elect-joe-biden-reject-donald-trump-editorials-debates/5919435002/&text="The+case+for+Joe+Biden.+The+case+against+Donald+Trump.+Share+Our+View."&via=usatoday
https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/opinion/todaysdebate/2020/10/20/elect-joe-biden-reject-donald-trump-editorials-debates/5919435002/
Maybe you backed Trump the last time around because you hoped he’d shake things up in Washington or bring back blue-collar jobs. Maybe you liked his populist, anti-elitist message. Maybe you couldn’t stomach the idea of supporting a Democrat as polarizing as Clinton. Maybe you cast a ballot for a minor party candidate, or just stayed home.

Now, two weeks until Election Day, we suggest you consider a variation of the question Republican Ronald Reagan asked voters when he ran for president in 1980: Is America better off now than it was four years ago? Beset by disease, economic suffering, a racial reckoning and natural disasters fueled by a changing climate, the nation is dangerously off course. We spoke to dozens of people in Michigan, Ohio and Wisconsin, battleground states that helped propel Trump into the White House in 2016. Many declined to comment, citing a general disgust with the election or fear of speaking out publicly. While some said they were personally better off, most of those willing to talk on camera expressed anguish and dismay about the nation's direction:









						Mike Pence: Reelect President Donald Trump to renew America’s promise
					

Opposing View: For the last four years, I have stood with President Trump as he kept his promises to the American people.




					www.usatoday.com


----------



## basilio (28 October 2020)

How are suburban women viewing Trump in 2020?
Apparently this was a key demographic which brought Trump into office. This time though  ... the figures are changing.








						They backed Trump over Hillary in 2016. But women may be about to make him a one-term President
					

Catherine is a white suburban woman who voted for Donald Trump in 2016, thinking he would "get things done". But after four years in which she says the President has embraced abrasive rhetoric and divisive terms, she's changing her vote this time.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## basilio (28 October 2020)

The USA Today Editorial Board offers a very powerful argument for its first time decision to endorse Joe Biden for Presidency.

*The Backstory: The Editorial Board, independent from newsroom, endorsed Joe Biden. Here's why.           *

*The USA TODAY Editorial Board has never endorsed a candidate for president. Until now. 'This is not a normal election, and these are not normal times.' *
Nicole Carroll, USA TODAY
    Updated 9:15 p.m. AEDT Oct. 20, 2020                 

_I'm USA TODAY editor-in-chief Nicole Carroll, and this is The Backstory, insights into our biggest stories of the week. If you'd like to get The Backstory free in your inbox every week, sign up here._

 *In its 38 years of existence, the USA TODAY Editorial Board has never endorsed a candidate for president. The nonpartisan board hasn’t recommended a nominee. Until now. *​ 
Today, the USA TODAY Editorial Board, which is separate from the news department, endorsed Joe Biden for president.

"We don't do this eagerly," said editorial page editor Bill Sternberg. "We hope we don't have to do it again, but it seems like one of those break-glass moments where there's a clear and present danger and there's a clear choice."            

Endorsements, all editorials, aren't meant to lecture. They're meant to put forth a well-considered viewpoint, grounded in the facts, to spur conversation. The closest the board ever came to an endorsement was in 2016, when it urged voters to reject Donald Trump, but did not endorse any other candidate.

As editor-in-chief, I oversee the newsroom, but I do not sit on the Editorial Board. News and editorial are separate groups, working independently of each other. News reporters provide facts, background and context. Editorial Board members offer all that, but also their educated opinions and thought leadership. The two groups do not have any influence over each other.                         

The nonpartisan USA TODAY Editorial Board is known for being balanced in its views. That doesn’t mean the editors avoid sharp opinions, it means they offer a variety of viewpoints, including today’s Opposing View by Vice President Mike Pence. Nonpartisan means the board has no formal or informal connections to either the Republican or Democratic parties. Traditionally, it has supported policies put forth by both parties.        

USA TODAY Editorial Board on Biden endorsement: 'Trump has trampled on ... values'

For the first time in USA TODAY's history, the Editorial Board is endorsing a presidential candidate. Several board members explain why.

USA TODAY

Sternberg said the board hasn’t endorsed in the past because major parties have put up qualified candidates with political differences.

*That’s not so this year, the endorsement says: “If this were a choice between two capable major party nominees who happened to have opposing ideas, we wouldn’t choose sides. Different voters have different concerns. But this is not a normal election, and these are not normal times. This year, character, competence and credibility are on the ballot. Given Trump’s refusal to guarantee a peaceful transfer of power if he loses, so, too, is the future of America's democracy.”

Sternberg said he also considered the core values of the board: "Honesty, accountability, civil discourse, common sense, common-ground solutions to the nation's problems, opposition to racism, steadfast support for the First Amendment. These aren't partisan values. They shouldn't be partisan values. But in each case, Donald Trump has trampled on those values, and Joe Biden would respect those values."*

The 10-member Editorial Board includes conservatives, liberals and centrists. Eileen Rivers served in military intelligence in Kuwait. Thuan Le Elston came to America as a child refugee of the Vietnam War. David Mastio moved to Washington in 1994 to be part of the Republican Revolution. Sternberg was the longtime USA TODAY Washington editor before moving to the opinion department in 2005.

Mastio, the deputy opinion editor, said he hopes people consider the board's centrist, nonpartisan track record as they read today's endorsement.

"We're not an ideological Editorial Board out to impose our views on other people," he said. "We're saying this is a national emergency. This is a president like no other who has been uniquely awful, both personally and professionally. And we need to do something about it."








						The Backstory: The Editorial Board, independent from newsroom, endorsed Joe Biden. Here's why.
					

The USA TODAY Editorial Board has never endorsed a candidate for president. Until now. 'This is not a normal election, and these are not normal times.'




					www.usatoday.com


----------



## basilio (28 October 2020)

The Linclon Project always manages to skewer Trumpism in all its forms.
Check this one out.

October 24, 2020 — Today, the Lincoln Project is releasing a new video, “Yes,” starring Colorado Senator Cory Gardner, a notorious Trump ‘yes-man’.

During a debate on Tuesday, incumbent Senator Cory Gardner was asked if he felt President Trump was a moral and ethical man. Gardner paused for only a brief moment, but surely long enough to consider the 545 children who were separated from their now-lost parents at the Southern border, the over 222,000 COVID-19 patients that have died, the numerous Gold Star families whose sacrifices Trump has glossed over, calling their relatives “suckers” and “losers”, and the dozens of women he’s sexually harassed in one way or another. After such consideration, Gardner answers “Yes” as he always has when it comes to Trump.

“Cory Gardner is an embarrassment to Colorado,” said Reed Galen, co-founder of the Lincoln Project. “His votes agree with Trump nearly 90% of the time. It’s clear the man can’t think for himself, which may explain why he thinks Trump is moral and ethical. That, or, he doesn’t know what those words mean.”

Luckily for Coloradans, Gardner is also on the November 3rd ballot. Unfortunately for him, he’s up against John Hickenlooper – an actual moral and ethical man who proved himself a thoughtful, independent leader for all during his time as Governor. Defeating Trump means defeating his enablers as well, which is bad news for a lackey like Gardner.


----------



## basilio (28 October 2020)

The Lincoln Project  ads make the Dems look xiss poor.
Brilliant.


----------



## moXJO (28 October 2020)

basilio said:


> The Lincoln Project  ads make the Dems look xiss poor.
> Brilliant.






Starting their own media company so I've been told.

Unfortunately both Democrat and Republican supporters hate them. So I don't know who's watching it once Trump is gone.


----------



## basilio (28 October 2020)

moXJO said:


> Unfortunately both Democrat and Republican supporters hate them.




Che ??  Says who ??  Clearly not the many Republicans who don't want a bar of Trump and are delighted to have a clearly Republican voice reflect their concern

And I'm certain any Democrat appreciates such single minded efforts to turn votes their way in this election.

The Lincoln Project won't become an arm of the Dems after this election. It's mission is to destroy Trump and Trumpism and  help recraft the Republican Party after this is achieved.


----------



## moXJO (28 October 2020)

basilio said:


> .
> 
> The Lincoln Project won't become an arm of the Dems after this election. It's mission is to destroy Trump and Trumpism and  help recraft the Republican Party after this is achieved.




They are grifters. Everyone knows it. Well maybe you missed the memo.


----------



## satanoperca (28 October 2020)

basilio said:


> The Lincoln Project  ads make the Dems look xiss poor.
> Brilliant.





Brilliance, so simple and to the point, no he said, she said, falses, fake news, just reality.

I wish the world would stop thinking in black and white and rather shades of grey in politics. The divisiveness Chump has created is and will be his downfalling. Whether it is today, tomorrow or in a decade, this is the legacy he will leave,. Dividing the people of a nation.


----------



## Linus van Pelt (28 October 2020)

moXJO said:


> They are grifters. Everyone knows it. Well maybe you missed the memo.



Speaking of grifters...


----------



## wayneL (28 October 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Brilliance, so simple and to the point, no he said, she said, falses, fake news, just reality.
> 
> I wish the world would stop thinking in black and white and rather shades of grey in politics. The divisiveness Chump has created is and will be his downfalling. Whether it is today, tomorrow or in a decade, this is the legacy he will leave,. Dividing the people of a nation.



I think it's the media that has caused the divisiveness, to be honest.

Let's look at the difference in response between Biden's and Trump's (both real and fake on both counts) misdemeanours.

Chaulk and Cheese.

That's not commentary on the virtues and foibles of either, just the narrative created.

Just look at the muck lather our resident ASF propagandist has worked himself into, and the denial of any faults regarding the other candidate. 

Be careful who is inside your mind folks.

Said with love


----------



## satanoperca (28 October 2020)

Linus van Pelt said:


> Speaking of grifters...




Great post.

So we have to be black or white, republican or democrats, heterosexual or gay. Human are so simple


----------



## satanoperca (28 October 2020)

wayneL said:


> I think it's the media that has caused the divisiveness, to be honest.
> 
> Let's look at the difference in response between Biden's and Trump's (both real and fake on both counts) misdemeanours.
> 
> ...




Wayne please consider outside what is in your mind. Agree with your narrative, but the media has always controlled the masses.


----------



## Linus van Pelt (28 October 2020)

I found this an easy-to-read summary of economic indicators over the past six presidencies.  Perhaps a bit simplistic for the financial whizzes in ASF, but hopefully some find this useful.

BTW, I've always thought the US president gets too much credit, and too much blame, for the economy.  I've often felt other players, such as the Federal Reserve Board Chairman, have a greater influence.

For 2021 and beyond, I think the US economy will be best served by a president who will have a solid plan to address the pandemic, as I believe this is the quickest road to recovery.  Happy to be corrected though...not necessarily on who you think will be the better president - clearly we all have our own strong opinions in this thread - but rather the factors that will improve the US (and global) economy the quickest.









						These 10 charts show how the economy performed under Trump versus prior presidents
					

President Donald Trump inherited a strong economy, and it continued to grow at a healthy rate during his first three years in office. Then the Covid-19 pandemic changed everything.




					www.cnn.com


----------



## Linus van Pelt (29 October 2020)

Speaking of a plan (or lack thereof) to address the pandemic.  The voice clips of Kushner are particularly damning.









						Jared Kushner bragged in April that Trump was taking the country 'back from the doctors'
					

President Donald Trump's son-in-law and senior adviser, Jared Kushner, boasted in mid-April about how the President had cut out the doctors and scientists advising him on the unfolding coronavirus pandemic, comments that came as more than 40,000 Americans already had died from the virus, which...




					www.cnn.com


----------



## Joules MM1 (29 October 2020)

what Donald finally admitted, what the electorate finally did


----------



## moXJO (29 October 2020)

Linus van Pelt said:


> I found this an easy-to-read summary of economic indicators over the past six presidencies.  Perhaps a bit simplistic for the financial whizzes in ASF, but hopefully some find this useful.
> 
> BTW, I've always thought the US president gets too much credit, and too much blame, for the economy.  I've often felt other players, such as the Federal Reserve Board Chairman, have a greater influence.
> 
> ...




Cnn probably not the best place to get stats.
Or unbiased news..


----------



## moXJO (29 October 2020)

One thing that is a for sure. Biden will win the popular vote by a landslide. If he were somehow to lose there will be mass bleating once again to change the electoral college.

It has tightened but I still think Biden will win comfortably.


----------



## Linus van Pelt (29 October 2020)

moXJO said:


> Cnn probably not the best place to get stats.
> Or unbiased news..



I agree with CNN being left leaning in their opinions.  So, if you read an opinion piece, it will likely be anti-Trump/anti-right/pro-left (that's a generalization).

But are you saying their *news* articles are not factual?  In particular, the article I posted about (somewhat) easily verifiable financial data? 

I say "easily" because I'm not personally going to independently verify their figures over 6 presidencies.  I don't have the time or inclination.  But I suspect other news sources would, and would call them out on it if their data were untrue.

And, as I'm sure you know, facts (provable data or events) are different than biases (opinions).  Hopefully, CNN's biases do not affect their reporting of facts, esp. such data as the financial data I posted.

If you want to search US financial data over the past 30+ years and refute the CNN article, knock yourself out.

In the absence of *factual* information to refute their stories, I choose to use them as a source of facts.  I have looked for more centrist sources of news, but I find the layout of the CNN website suits me finding news of interest as I live a busy life.  Perhaps I'll set up an RSS feed or other "bot" to find news of interest when I have to time to research options and set it up.

FWIW, I'm actually very right leaning, or perhaps more centrist as I've gotten older.  I just think Trump is grossly incompetent and unsuited to be US president.  If Trump hadn't conducted a hostile takeover of the Republican Party, and there had been a better candidate (AFAIK the incumbent has never failed to be nominated in a 2nd term), I would have likely supported that candidate over Biden.  Unfortunately, the result of Trump's incompetence and failed presidency will be 4 years of a left leaning President and Congress, but it is the lesser of two evils.  

Assuming he loses, of course.

My opinion, of course; I suspect you think otherwise.


----------



## wayneL (29 October 2020)

The Nige on The Donald


----------



## PZ99 (29 October 2020)

2016...






2020...





Same source... is this accurate do we think ?









						Biden vs Trump: live results 2020
					

Map and results of the US presidential and congressional elections




					ig.ft.com


----------



## moXJO (29 October 2020)

Linus van Pelt said:


> I agree with CNN being left leaning in their opinions.  So, if you read an opinion piece, it will likely be anti-Trump/anti-right/pro-left (that's a generalization).
> 
> But are you saying their *news* articles are not factual?  In particular, the article I posted about (somewhat) easily verifiable financial data?
> 
> ...



I'm saying they can present whatever facts they like. But they present just enough to go for whatever narrative they want to spin.Same as quoting fox. Simplifying something a little more complex then what they have shown and hitting their target market.
Nowadays its follow certain reporters that will report the truth no matter the backlash.

Personally I  want Trump another 4 years. Biden help lead the US (militarily) up shts Creek last time round. Trump has increased the spend to catch up to China and Russia technology. That will hopefully help negate the Chinese when the inevitable push comes in the region.
As much as the "space army" copped sht. Its actually extremely important to keep US satellites and the gps signal up.

I like his current position on the middle East. Although that could end up one way or the other.

I also like his position on manufacturing. I know what it shows on the chart, but its a start to pull manufacturing away from China. Globalisation needs to die off for a while. And that's for a few reasons. Pollution, corruption, the danger of everything being manufactured in one place.

As far as the divisiveness in the US. Everyone seems to have forgotten Democrats pissing and moaning when Bush was in. Thats dem centric.

And as for the political system in the US. I'm happy for Trump to keep burning it down. The guy is the perfect saboteur. He isn't the "one good man in Washington. He's a shtbag brawler with no filter. Exposing the Washington machine  intentional or not. Biden is a throwback to a political system that has been obliterated over the past 4 years. I question if people can ever be settled (either side) going back to that.

Change is here and it doesn't go back in the bottle.


----------



## moXJO (29 October 2020)

PZ99 said:


> 2016...
> View attachment 113934
> 
> 
> ...



Im seeing a lot of scared Democrats who are "literally shaking right now" at the thought of Donald getting back in. And they are grassrooting as many votes they can muster. I think the above is a very possible scenario.
Black vote is out in huge numbers. Women voters. Democrats definitely have the numbers.
Biden will definitely obliterate the popular vote.


----------



## IFocus (30 October 2020)

Linus van Pelt said:


> I found this an easy-to-read summary of economic indicators over the past six presidencies.  Perhaps a bit simplistic for the financial whizzes in ASF, but hopefully some find this useful.
> 
> BTW, I've always thought the US president gets too much credit, and too much blame, for the economy.  I've often felt other players, such as the Federal Reserve Board Chairman, have a greater influence.
> 
> ...




That was very revealing Clinton pretty much blew Trump away on most scores except wage growth. Given the extreme unfunded stimulus that Trump / Republicans have used before COVID I would have expected much more.

Obama having inherited the big recession didn't fare too bad either, Regan who used to be held in high esteem still fell behind Clinton.

Thanks for posting.


----------



## DB008 (30 October 2020)

l'm still going for Trump

Here is a Biden rally. What a joke. Someone marked the number of cars, 50 max...


----------



## basilio (30 October 2020)

moXJO said:


> Im seeing a lot of scared Democrats who are "literally shaking right now" at the thought of Donald getting back in. And they are grassrooting as many votes they can muster. I think the above is a very possible scenario.
> Black vote is out in huge numbers. Women voters. Democrats definitely have the numbers.
> Biden will definitely obliterate the popular vote.




You can add to that list a lot of "shaking" traditional Republicans who want to see the back of Trump and exit his rabid supporters.
Same goes for a number of voters who thought Trump offered a fresh new approach that  the Democrats through Hilary Clinton couldn't match.  There will be a swag of them as well.

So far it seems the following groups have moved away from Trump

Seniors concerned about his (non)approach to COVID
Suburban women who aren't impressed with his racism and abuse of women.
Some traditional, seriously disaffected Republican voters who believe Trump is a disaster
On the other hand he has held or increased support from the following groups

QAnon  groups who have become more and more vocal in their support for Trump
People who think COVID is overrated or fraudulent or a Chinese /Marxist/Socialist plot to take over the world
Anti Vaxxers, and a host of conspiracy theorists from Alex Jones and the lizard people down
The various White Supremacists groups who always recognised his policies and politics
A section of the Republican Party that has decided that  Trump is the instrument for holding onto power in any way necessary.
The Fossil fuel lobby that is rapt about the eroding of government regulations on the industry
(Some) Big Business that have benefited from the huge top end tax cuts
Evangelicals who want to see all abortion stopped, women take their rightful place in the home and  gays and trans dealt with in a Godly way.


----------



## moXJO (30 October 2020)

basilio said:


> You can add to that list a lot of "shaking" traditional Republicans who want to see the back of Trump and exit his rabid supporters.
> Same goes for a number of voters who thought Trump offered a fresh new approach that  the Democrats through Hilary Clinton couldn't match.  There will be a swag of them as well.
> 
> So far it seems the following groups have moved away from Trump
> ...



Latino and blacks are filtering back. 
Nice biased attempt though


----------



## basilio (30 October 2020)

moXJO said:


> Latino and blacks are filtering back.
> Nice biased attempt though




Really ? Latinos and blacks filtering back ?  I'll give you a few Latinos.  Blacks ? Maybe if they also fit into some of the other catergories of current Trump supporters - QAnon, Anti vaxxers, White Supremacists ( not sure there..) or Hard Right Evangelicals.


----------



## basilio (30 October 2020)

Linus van Pelt said:


> I agree with CNN being left leaning in their opinions.  So, if you read an opinion piece, it will likely be anti-Trump/anti-right/pro-left (that's a generalization).
> 
> But are you saying their *news* articles are not factual?  In particular, the article I posted about (somewhat) easily verifiable financial data?
> 
> ...




*Worth quoting and supporting again*. I think your last paragraph, which I'm requoting, would sum up the views of a number of conservative voters in the US.  I cannot remember any US election where so many members of the ruling Party had such an effective open campaign against their President.
I have attached an ad from the Lincoln Project  which I suggest reflects that feeling.

_FWIW, I'm actually very right leaning, or perhaps more centrist as I've gotten older. I just think Trump is grossly incompetent and unsuited to be US president. If Trump hadn't conducted a hostile takeover of the Republican Party, and there had been a better candidate (AFAIK the incumbent has never failed to be nominated in a 2nd term), I would have likely supported that candidate over Biden. Unfortunately, the result of Trump's incompetence and failed presidency will be 4 years of a left leaning President and Congress, but it is the lesser of two evils._


----------



## sptrawler (30 October 2020)

Well from this thread, it can be assumed that those who support Trump are expecting Biden to win and those who suppport Biden, will have heart failure if he loses. Lol


----------



## basilio (30 October 2020)

I think there is a very big difference between who people vote for across the US and who ends up being in Power ... 

Just been watching Vice on Netflix. Excellent film on the world of Dick Chaney.


----------



## IFocus (30 October 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Well from this thread, it can be assumed that those who support Trump are expecting Biden to win and those who suppport Biden, will have heart failure if he loses. Lol





To be honest SP you would have to be a fool to be shocked if Trump gets up such is US politics, totally mental.


----------



## macca (30 October 2020)

IFocus said:


> To be honest SP you would have to be a fool to be shocked if Trump gets up such is US politics, totally mental.




Sure is a weird system, I am confident that both sides have complained about it when they lost.

Perhaps a bi partisan agreement is needed to change it to something that they can both agree on

Then again, opposing parties usually only agree on increasing their pay packets


----------



## sptrawler (30 October 2020)

IFocus said:


> To be honest SP you would have to be a fool to be shocked if Trump gets up such is US politics, totally mental.



I wouldnt have a clue, but there is a lot of wasted pent up passion on here, probably from those who dont have enough happening in their lives.lol


----------



## moXJO (30 October 2020)

basilio said:


> Really ? Latinos and blacks filtering back ?  I'll give you a few Latinos.  Blacks ? Maybe if they also fit into some of the other catergories of current Trump supporters - QAnon, Anti vaxxers, White Supremacists ( not sure there..) or Hard Right Evangelicals.



Umm union members


----------



## dutchie (31 October 2020)

MY FELLOW AMERICANS (AND AUSTRALIANS)


*PROTECT FREE SPEECH !*


----------



## wayneL (31 October 2020)

I reckon *any polls are suspect these days, but this analysis is encouraging for the God Emporer


----------



## wayneL (31 October 2020)

This analysis can be followed at @StatesPoll on ToxicBlueChecksVille, BTW


----------



## basilio (31 October 2020)

I noticed on some Far Right news sites that, somehow, if they "adjusted" the polls properly, Trump was going to win in a landslide. 
One of the ways they constructed this story was premising that registered Republicians who returned their votes were all voting for Trump.

*And yet this an election like no other where one of the most significant anti Trump campaigns is coming from long term registered Republican voters adamant that the man cannot be allowed to continue in office. * They are rejecting Trumpism not what they see as conservative Republican values.

These are sort of ads being run to explain to Republican voters why they should reconsider. IMV they will be tipping point across the country.


----------



## basilio (31 October 2020)

Alternative realities in the US.

*Coronavirus Australia live news: United States records more than 91,248 new COVID-19 cases in single day*

The United States has reported a record 91,248 new coronavirus cases in a single day and 1,055 deaths, its largest daily increase, according to the CDC









						Children test positive for COVID-19 in both WA and SA
					

The two states have recorded new cases of COVID-19 today, while Professor Brett Sutton says Victorians have earned the right to "enjoy ourselves now".




					www.abc.net.au
				




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Donald Trump Jr and father play down Covid deaths as daily toll nears 1,000*
President tweets that deaths are ‘way down’ while Don Jr tells Fox News deaths from coronavirus are ‘almost nothing’


Don Jr sat for an interview with Fox News on Thursday night during which he called critics of the Trump administration’s approach to the pandemic “truly morons” and said that deaths from Covid-19 in America right now are “almost nothing”.



> Don Jr. falsely claimed on Thursday that the number of Americans dying from the coronavirus amounts to “almost nothing.”
> 
> An average of 1,000 Americans a day are dying from Covid-19 right now.pic.twitter.com/oHNzQtfDOS
> — Bill Maxwell 😷 #NeverTrump (@Bill_Maxwell_) October 30, 2020






> Meanwhile, having said at a rally last weekend that “you don’t see death” at this stage of the pandemic in the US, Donald Trump reiterated in a tweet on Friday morning that deaths are “WAY DOWN” in the US, mass testing is exaggerating the numbers of infections and hospitals are coping.




As coronavirus deaths in the US approach 1,000 a day in the current record surge of infections, Donald Trump and his son, Don Jr, appear intent on publicly disputing the lethality of the outbreak at repeated opportunities.
Meanwhile, having said at a rally last weekend that “you don’t see death” at this stage of the pandemic in the US, Donald Trump reiterated in a tweet on Friday morning that deaths are “WAY DOWN” in the US, mass testing is exaggerating the numbers of infections and hospitals are coping.

In fact, many hospitals across the US, especially the midwest and upper midwest heartland and Texas are on the brink of being overwhelmed and are setting up field hospitals and calling in the military and assistance from state governors.









						Donald Trump Jr and father play down Covid deaths as daily toll nears 1,000
					

President tweets that deaths are ‘way down’ while Don Jr tells Fox News deaths from coronavirus are ‘almost nothing’




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Joules MM1 (31 October 2020)

how US presidents get elected
the electoral college vote





__





						Loading...
					





					www.washingtonpost.com


----------



## spooly74 (31 October 2020)

Demorats getting ready to accept the results of the election again.



They won't be needed.


----------



## spooly74 (31 October 2020)

If this is even close to being true, it'll be a bloodbath for the Dems.


----------



## Knobby22 (31 October 2020)

Saw interestinug article in the Age today, that if the Democrats get up there will very likely be antitrust lawuit to Google of $1 trillion dollars which regulators are asking for and will lead to the company being split.


----------



## moXJO (31 October 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Saw interestinug article in the Age today, that if the Democrats get up there will very likely be antitrust lawuit to Google of $1 trillion dollars which regulators are asking for and will lead to the company being split.



I hope so. All the big tech needs to be pulled in. Twitter and Facebook need to be classed as publishers as well.


----------



## spooly74 (31 October 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Saw interestinug article in the Age today, that if the Democrats get up there will very likely be antitrust lawuit to Google of $1 trillion dollars which regulators are asking for and will lead to the company being split.



I’d bet Trump will do the same in 2nd term, and include FB & Twitter, too.


----------



## Knobby22 (31 October 2020)

spooly74 said:


> I’d bet Trump will do the same in 2nd term, and include FB & Twitter, too.



Maybe, hasn't announced it or acted in this term though.


----------



## wayneL (31 October 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Maybe, hasn't announced it or acted in this term though.



He has made some comments about though, IIRC.

Wouldn't surprise me if he did. Doesn't matter who wins, I think is would be in the US national interest (and the world) for them to be eviscerated IMO.


----------



## IFocus (31 October 2020)

wayneL said:


> He has made some comments about though, IIRC.
> 
> Wouldn't surprise me if he did. Doesn't matter who wins, I think is would be in the US national interest (and the world) for them to be eviscerated IMO.




Agree but really needs bipartisan support to fly.


----------



## dutchie (1 November 2020)

All you people with bad cases of T D S - this is what your clinging to...


----------



## IFocus (1 November 2020)

This is a must read from Stan Grant as he goes through what it means for Australian interests / security with Trump in the White House.

If you don't like the idea of speaking Chinese look away   









						Trump's bid for re-election election holds a cruel irony for Australia
					

Australia learned quickly. When it came to Trump, it was best to be always be on guard, writes Andrew Probyn.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## IFocus (1 November 2020)

And again Grant

*If you want to understand the 2020 US election, 1968 is a good place to start*











						The story of 1968 hides the true genius of America. It is a message we need in 2020
					

Joe Biden wants to unite America but his more important task, if he becomes president, will be to govern over difference, to hold the warring parties together and most of all, to compromise, writes Stan Grant.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## dutchie (1 November 2020)

Thank God Trump stands up to the Chinese. The only President to do so.


----------



## dutchie (1 November 2020)

Biden can't even tie his own shoelaces, let alone bring the US together (he would not know what that means).


----------



## sptrawler (1 November 2020)

I suppose it will be the quiet majority that decide the U.S election, as it should be.
IMO it will be a huge blow for the media, if it doesn't go the Biden way, those that have poured billions into discrediting Trump will question if it was money well spent.


----------



## dutchie (1 November 2020)

As I have said before - 4 more years (it won't even be close).


----------



## Macquack (1 November 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I suppose it will be the quiet majority that decide the U.S election, as it should be.
> IMO it will be a huge blow for the media, if it doesn't go the Biden way, those that have poured billions into discrediting Trump will question if it was money well spent.



Who has spent billions discrediting Trump? 

Trump discredits himself for free.


----------



## macca (1 November 2020)

Macquack said:


> Who has spent billions discrediting Trump?
> 
> Trump discredits himself for free.




LOL you are right, which makes it crazy that for the past four years the Dems have spent all their energy trying to bring down a democratically elected President.

If they had spent half as much energy modelling someone into being the next President they would be in a much better position IMO

True, they may still win but after what happened last time, it is no sure thing


----------



## Linus van Pelt (1 November 2020)

macca said:


> LOL you are right, which makes it crazy that for the past four years the Dems have spent all their energy trying to bring down a democratically elected President.



Are you saying there was no cause for the Mueller investigation, where there was credible evidence that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia to meddle in the US election?

Are you saying there was no cause for impeachment when Trump blackmailed a foreign government to meddle in the US election process?

Are you saying there is no situation in which the US Congress should take action if there is evidence of malfeasance by the US President?



macca said:


> True, they may still win but after what happened last time, it is no sure thing



I agree.


----------



## moXJO (1 November 2020)

Linus van Pelt said:


> Are you saying there was no cause for the Mueller investigation, where there was credible evidence that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia to meddle in the US election?
> 
> Are you saying there was no cause for impeachment when Trump blackmailed a foreign government to meddle in the US election process?
> 
> ...



Yes there was no credible evidence or he would have been done.  FBI was shown to have initiated the whole investigation of a bs writ.
By agents that were caught messaging that they would do what was necessary to take down Trump.
No charges of collusion either. It was all perjury traps.


----------



## Linus van Pelt (1 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> Yes there was no credible evidence or he would have been done.  FBI was shown to have initiated the whole investigation of a bs writ.
> By agents that were caught messaging that they would do what was necessary to take down Trump.
> No charges of collusion either. It was all perjury traps.



It was the Justice Department (Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein) who initiated the Special Prosecutor investigation, not the FBI.
It was wrong for the FBI agents to say what they did, and they were fired.
But the investigation was not started by the FBI.









						Key Findings of the Mueller Report | ACS
					

Special Counsel Robert Mueller's testimony before Congress represents a critical opportunity for the legal community to help the American people understand what is in his March 2019 Report On The




					www.acslaw.org
				








__





						Full Text of the Mueller Report's Executive Summaries
					

Editor’s Note: Below are the executive summaries of the two volumes of Special Counsel Robert Mueller's final report. Volume I deals with links between Russia and the Trump campaign, while Volume II deals with potential obstruction of justice by President Trump. This article is available in...




					www.lawfareblog.com
				




The conclusion from Mueller's summary:



> Because we determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment, we did not draw ultimate conclusions about the President's conduct. *The evidence we obtained about the President's actions and intent presents difficult issues that would need to be resolved if we were making a traditional prosecutorial judgment.* At the same time, if we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, we are unable to reach that judgment. *Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him. *



You are right that the investigation did not find indictable evidence of collusion.  It did uncover strongly unethical conduct by the Trump campaign.
However, it did find strong evidence of obstruction of justice, but not indictable due to US legal precedent that the President cannot be indicted.
It will be interesting to see if any sealed indictments surface after Trump is no longer President (in either 2 months, or 4 years 2 months).

You didn't address the issue with the Ukrainian President, but that's cool, we'll just agree to disagree.


----------



## macca (1 November 2020)

I would think that virtually everyone who gets elected anywhere has something in their past that when viewed with biased eyes looks a bit Suss

That applies to both sides of the political spectrum

No matter what, the Dems have wasted four years when they should have been identifying a suitable person to run against Trump

300+ million people and the best they can do is a 77 years old man who has lost before


----------



## wayneL (1 November 2020)

Macquack said:


> Who has spent billions discrediting Trump?
> 
> Trump discredits himself for free.



But how would you know unless those billions were spent?


----------



## dutchie (1 November 2020)

macca said:


> I would think that virtually everyone who gets elected anywhere has something in their past that when viewed with biased eyes looks a bit Suss
> 
> That applies to both sides of the political spectrum
> 
> ...



I agree.
It is easier to be negative than positive. Easier to tear down than to build.
So the Dems and the MSM are just fkn lazy.


----------



## basilio (1 November 2020)

Good Ole Boys hospitality in Texarse.  They know how make people feel reeall welcome..
Trump was proud as punch of his Proud Boys and their mates trying to run Bidens Bus off the road. That should go down  very well with his supporters.

*Trump glorifies Texas attack in which MAGA drivers tried to push Biden/Harris bus off road*









						Trump glorifies Texas attack in which MAGA drivers tried to push Biden/Harris bus off road | Boing Boing
					

CNN reports that Trump supporters in Texas tried to run a Biden-Harris campaign bus off the road earlier today. Trump’s response was to share video of the attack, with an all-caps, “I LOVE TE…




					boingboing.net


----------



## moXJO (1 November 2020)

Linus van Pelt said:


> It was the Justice Department (Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein) who initiated the Special Prosecutor investigation, not the FBI.
> It was wrong for the FBI agents to say what they did, and they were fired.
> But the investigation was not started by the FBI.
> 
> ...



That's a long winded way into saying "no collusion". Lets talk about how the Steele dossier came into existence if we want to run off on a tangent.

Democrats will initiate asap into any investigation.


----------



## dutchie (2 November 2020)

Why would Facebook ban this ad?


----------



## moXJO (2 November 2020)

dutchie said:


> Why would Facebook ban this ad?




I think Facebook said it would ban political ads just before the election. Did they do the same for Biden?


----------



## moXJO (2 November 2020)

Biden still to win off the current figures in battleground states


----------



## basilio (2 November 2020)

The ABC has a good explainer of the US election and  the impact of winning/losing various states on either Parties chance of being President.








						The US election is two days away and these are the states that will decide it
					

If you're feeling overwhelmed at the thought of watching the US presidential election, use our guide to zero-in on the states that matter.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## dutchie (2 November 2020)

basilio said:


> Good Ole Boys hospitality in Texarse.  They know how make people feel reeall welcome..
> Trump was proud as punch of his Proud Boys and their mates trying to run Bidens Bus off the road. That should go down  very well with his supporters.
> 
> *Trump glorifies Texas attack in which MAGA drivers tried to push Biden/Harris bus off road*
> ...





TYPICAL BASILIO FAKE NEWS

It was actually a Biden staffer who tried to push Trump supporter off the highway.
Watch the video.


----------



## sptrawler (2 November 2020)

basilio said:


> The ABC has a good explainer of the US election and  the impact of winning/losing various states on either Parties chance of being President.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good post Bas, from the maps it would indicate poorer/middle class areas generally vote Republican and coastal more affluent areas vote Democrat. 
Also from what I have read the Republicans are more right leaning and Democrats more left leaning, so the situation there appears to mirror what has happened the World over the lower/middle class have become disenfranchised there as has happened here and the U.K.
Historically the left leaning parties support base has been the working class, but is now changing to be the more affluent members of society, whereas the working class is moving further to the right.
I wonder if this is because the middle class are seeing themselves as the pack mules, for the social and economic change that the elite want and the welfare recipients don't have to contribute to?
Interesting times world wide ATM.


----------



## basilio (2 November 2020)

Dutchie again, again and again you just regurgitate the Kool Aid kindly offered by your favorite sites.

It's absolutely clear that the Trump truck following the bus *swerved into the other car *to force it back into the other lane. That is quite clear.

In any case having a cavalcade of   vehicles following and intimidating the vehicle of a political oppenent  across the country is just the behavior of bully boys.  Yep Proud Boys, Boogalloos,  White Supremacists  and so on.  I'm sure that that story will swell the hearts and souls of the current Trump supporters.

I also suspect it will bring out twice as many people who think "What a bunch of xrseholes !!"  zuck em. in the ballot box.

We'll see won't we ?









						Democrats condemn Trump supporters who swarmed Texas campaign bus
					

Friday incident involving ‘Trump train’ trucks goes viral, as one witness writes: ‘This is how a democracy dies’




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## basilio (2 November 2020)

This idea has been widely discussed previously.  Apparently it has a lot more legs at the moment.
Let's see if this focuses voters minds on the importance of this election.

*Trump plans to declare victory if he takes election night lead: Axios *

President Trump has told those in his orbit he intends to prematurely declare victory on election night if early returns are favorable to him despite uncounted ballots that could lead to a loss, Axios reported Sunday.

The president has discussed the plan in detail with confidants, the publication reported.

On Tuesday night, the early count in the pivotal state of Pennsylvania is expected to favor the president because of state laws against counting mail-in ballots before Election Day. However, the ongoing count is expected to narrow the margin between Trump and Democratic nominee Joe Biden, who leads in most polling of the state.

Kathy Boockvar (D), who leads Pennsylvania's State Department, said the commonwealth expects the full count to take days because of the high volume of mail-in ballots this year, 10 times the number cast in 2016.









						Trump plans to declare victory if he takes election night lead: Axios
					

President Trump has told those in his orbit he intends to prematurely declare victory on election night if early returns are favorable to him despite uncounted ballots that could lead to a loss,




					thehill.com
				











						Trump says he is preparing for legal challenges to vote counts as final sprint begins
					

President lines up 10 rallies in seven swing states over two days in effort to replicate shock election win in 2016




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## basilio (2 November 2020)

This is what rigged elections and voter intimidation looked like in the US in 1946.

*‘Get the Hell Out of Here and Get Something to Shoot With’*

The political machine in McMinn County, Tennessee, had spent Election Day intimidating voters, encouraging fraud and holding poll watchers at gunpoint. That’s when a group of World War II veterans decided to revolt.









						‘Get the Hell Out of Here and Get Something to Shoot With’
					

The political machine in McMinn County, Tennessee, had spent Election Day intimidating voters, encouraging fraud and holding poll watchers at gunpoint. That’s when a group of World War II veterans decided to revolt.




					www.politico.com
				












						Battle of Athens (1946) - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## PZ99 (2 November 2020)

" If the state polls were underestimating Trump's support by the same amount as 2016, Biden would still be far enough ahead to win the required 270 Electoral College votes on November 3. The President would require a bigger polling miss than four years ago in order to win a second term. "









						Biden maintains convincing lead over Trump in final election polls
					

If the polls were underestimating Trump's support by the same amount as 2016, Biden would still be far enough ahead to win the election.




					www.smh.com.au
				




So for Trump to win from this point the polls would have to be really really......... _really_ wrong


----------



## wayneL (2 November 2020)

PZ99 said:


> " If the state polls were underestimating Trump's support by the same amount as 2016, Biden would still be far enough ahead to win the required 270 Electoral College votes on November 3. The President would require a bigger polling miss than four years ago in order to win a second term. "
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's gonna be very interesting from a pollster point of view.

Perhaps it is a function of the echo chamber that I inhabit (and a healthy dose of hope), but I am seeing far more support for Trump, and I am long past believing the mainstream narrative.

Ergo, cognizant of any possibility, I wouldn't be surprised at a surprising result.


----------



## IFocus (2 November 2020)

PZ99 said:


> " If the state polls were underestimating Trump's support by the same amount as 2016, Biden would still be far enough ahead to win the required 270 Electoral College votes on November 3. The President would require a bigger polling miss than four years ago in order to win a second term. "
> 
> 
> 
> ...





To be honest no one is completely writing Trump off yet, but as I understand it the polls have been more sophisticated this year looking more closely through age groups, education and wealth levels.

So far Trump loses, problem with the US no one knows who turns up to vote on the day all be it 2020 is looking like a record turn out certainly pre polling is which is possibly further bad news for Trump.

Off course Trump will declare he is the winner no matter what the out come is such is his poor character.


----------



## PZ99 (2 November 2020)

Ironically, the obvious question about the polling is the impetus of it.

Is it designed to track opinion or drive it ?

Sadly... my tip for ASX*POP_corn_ was ruled invalid


----------



## sptrawler (2 November 2020)

PZ99 said:


> Ironically, the obvious question about the polling is the impetus of it.
> 
> Is it designed to track opinion or drive it ?



I think that statement is spot on, but with the advent of social media, the normal media based polling is become dated and very age specific IMO. 
I think the Australian and U.K elections clearly highlighted it, however there is no way the U.S can be compared to the U.K or Australia, IMO completely different cattle.


----------



## basilio (2 November 2020)

So Trumps way of "winning" the election is to claim victory the minute he is ahead on vote counting and then declare any votes received  after that don't have to be counted.  Bit like being a goal up at 3/4 time and having to face a  8 goal breeze in the last quarter of a footy match. 

This story sums up how destructive this proposal is.

Fascinating opinion piece in the Washington Post by leading *Republican election lawyer*, Benjamin L Ginsberg.
Ginsberg writes that Trump’s last-minute attempt to challenge the ballots of individual voters unlikely to support him is as “*un-American as it gets.*”


> These are painful words for me to write. I spent four decades in the Republican trenches, representing GOP presidential and congressional campaigns, working on Election Day operations, recounts, redistricting and other issues, including trying to lift the consent decree...





> The truth is that over all those years Republicans found only isolated incidents of fraud. Proof of systematic fraud has become the Loch Ness Monster of the Republican Party. People have spent a lot of time looking for it, but it doesn’t exist.





> As he confronts losing, Trump has devoted his campaign and the Republican Party to this myth of voter fraud. Absent being able to articulate a cogent plan for a second term or find an attack against Joe Biden that will stick, disenfranchising enough voters has become key to his reelection strategy.






> Trump defends 'patriots' who surrounded Biden campaign bus – live updates
> 
> 
> President in Michigan, Iowa, North Carolina, Georgia and Florida as Biden targets Pennsylvania
> ...


----------



## spooly74 (2 November 2020)

Have the Dems done enough in early voting to counter this?
Seem to be on par with 2016 advantage % wise pre Election Day.
Massive landslide on the cards for Trump.


----------



## basilio (2 November 2020)

*Vote for Trump  = Fire  Dr Fauci*













Oliver Laughland

Guardian US southern bureau chief Oliver Laughland has just finished attending Trump’s final Sunday/Monday rally at an airport in Miami. He writes;



> President Donald Trump has indicated he could fire America’s top infectious disease expert, Dr Anthony Fauci during a midnight rally in Miami, Florida, less than 48 hours before America’s critical presidential election.
> 
> As crowds at the Miami Opa-Locka airport chanted “Fire Fauci”, Trump stood for a number seconds and allowed the chants to continue before responding: “Don’t tell anybody, but let me wait until a little bit after the election. I appreciate the advice. I appreciate it.”
> 
> ...




Pay a visit to Oliver’s Twitter for some colorful rally footage:








						US election 2020: Trump threatens to fire Fauci as Harris warns over nation's 'moral direction' – live
					

On election-eve Joe Biden will target Pennsylvania and Ohio, while the president visits four states




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## sptrawler (2 November 2020)

Macquack said:


> Who has spent billions discrediting Trump?



Well those that don't like Trump trying to relocate manufacturing back to the U.S of course.
A very interesting paragraph in this article, why the hell would manufacturers want manufacturing back in the U.S? That would lead to less profits.
And the answer is, spend more money on infrastructure and clean energy, so that people can get around easier and not make as many emissions, when they are unemployed. 😂








						Wall Street opens its wallets for Biden
					

Tired of Donald Trump's erratic performance and fearful about the state of US capitalism, Corporate America is getting behind Joe Biden.




					www.theage.com.au
				



From the article:

_Wall Street swinging behind Biden's tax hikes and big spending agenda may seem like turkeys voting for Thanksgiving. But they have been driven into his arms by the erratic Trump and growing worries that US capitalism is in crisis. Since huge corporate tax cuts boosted profits and shareholder returns in late 2017, businesses have soured on Trump.

"Wall Street is always looking for some sanity in terms of policy," says Steven Blitz, chief US economist at TS Lombard. "Wall Street doesn't like tariffs, Wall Street doesn't like trade disruptions.

Economic gaps in American society are widening and the middle class has suffered a substantial decline in recent decades, with its share of US income slumping from 62 per cent in 1970 to 43 per cent in 2018, according to the Pew Research Centre. Its share of wealth fell from 32 per cent in 1983 to 17 per cent with wages for low and middle earners barely growing since 2000_.

So the rich get richer by relocating manufacturing overseas, making more profits and giving executives bigger salaries and the middle class suck it up as they move into unemployment?
Why would Wall street want to change that paradigm? 
The only crazy part, is why the plebs can't see it.
Just my thoughts.


----------



## basilio (2 November 2020)

dutchie said:


> TYPICAL BASILIO FAKE NEWS
> 
> It was actually a Biden staffer who tried to push Trump supporter off the highway.
> Watch the video.





Indeed !! Amazing how alternative realities come to the for.
This video shows the Trump truck swerving into the left hand lane and sideswiping a Biden  volunteer car. 









						'Trump Train' Truck Sideswipes Biden Volunteer's Car in Texas | Law & Crime
					

A caravan of President Donald Trump’s supporters in Texas were filmed harassing a Biden campaign bus en route to an event on Interstate 35 Friday, leading the campaign to cancel several rallies due to safety concerns. The altercation culminated with a Trump supporter in a pickup truck appearing...




					lawandcrime.com


----------



## moXJO (2 November 2020)

basilio said:


> This idea has been widely discussed previously.  Apparently it has a lot more legs at the moment.
> Let's see if this focuses voters minds on the importance of this election.
> 
> *Trump plans to declare victory if he takes election night lead: Axios *
> ...



This was already debunked I thought?


----------



## Knobby22 (2 November 2020)

The thing I would like to know is who is Melania going to vote for.


----------



## sptrawler (2 November 2020)

The stars are starting to re align for China.








						China Is Getting Ready for a World Without Trump
					

By removing two key crutches for the yuan, the central bank is preparing for a less volatile world.




					www.bloomberg.com
				




From the article:
Last quarter was the yuan’s best in more than a decade. Now Beijing needs to prevent the currency from strengthening too much, particularly with the increasing odds of a Joe Biden White House. Whatever position the Democratic candidate takes toward China, his policies are certain to be more predictable than President Donald Trump’s. That would be a good thing for the yuan. In fact, currency traders had preempted policy makers, piling into the yuan as the odds of a blue wave rose.  

Over the past two years, China’s currency has been whipsawed by volatile geopolitics, while traditional valuation metrics, such as the current account surplus and interest rate differentials, went to the back burner. Now that Trump appears to be on his way out, and China’s economy is growing again — with parts of Europe and the U.S. resuming lockdowns — the yuan’s outlook is rosy. 

Looking across emerging markets, one can’t stress enough how important a stable currency is for foreign investors. Of course, China is pleased that a Biden win would unwind some of the damage Trump has done to its currency, but it doesn’t want the yuan to go on a fast track, either. China is merely getting ready for a world without Trump.


----------



## moXJO (3 November 2020)

sptrawler said:


> The stars are starting to re align for China.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Im expecting China to make further pushes into land grabs once Biden is president. Get ready for war imo.


----------



## wayneL (3 November 2020)

Still conflicting messages


----------



## wayneL (3 November 2020)

...and a different survey again. Curiouser and curiouser.


----------



## PZ99 (3 November 2020)

@wayneL  Whoever tweeted that first poll said "They released this on Saturday"

They actually released it in March (that's their moody) which was 5 months before Biden was even nominated.


The other poll is based from 2018 (adjusted) results so they're doing a bit of good ole cherry picking there


----------



## basilio (3 November 2020)

PZ99 said:


> @wayneL  Whoever tweeted that first poll said "They released this on Saturday"
> 
> They actually released it in March (that's their moody) which was 5 months before Biden was even nominated.
> 
> The other poll is based from 2018 (adjusted) results so they're doing a bit of good ole cherry picking there




That is sad on a few points

1) It seems the only way to encourage Trump voters they have a chance to win is posting 7 month old polls 
2) Many Trump supporters can't/won't check what they are told and  still produce these polls as evidence of current support.


----------



## basilio (3 November 2020)

Excellent description of the processes around checking and counting early votes in the election.









						More than 97 million Americans have already voted. How will this affect the result?
					

You've been hearing more than normal about mail-in ballots this US election campaign. What happens to them once they are posted?




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## basilio (3 November 2020)

The US can anticipate  critical international assistance with ensuring its election is free and fair and well run.

*Iraq Sends Independent Observers To Monitor US Election     * 








Iraq has sent thousands of independent observers to the US to help build public confidence in the struggling nation’s upcoming election.

Iraqi officials said there were some signs of democracy in the United States, but noted that the country still had a long way to go in its goal of running fair and safe elections.

“As America hopefully moves towards democracy, we want to help out in whatever way we can,” an Iraqi spokesperson said.

He said the nation of 320 million people has a long history of war, civil unrest, corruption and poverty, and that many groups had been excluded from voting for generations. “We know from experience that democracy can struggle in these environments”.  

The observers will not be armed although it is expected that many of the voters will be.









						Iraq Sends Independent Observers To Monitor US Election
					

"The country is besieged by corruption, civil unrest and violence. We want to help bring democracy to this struggling nation".




					www.theshovel.com.au


----------



## Craton (3 November 2020)

So much has been said about this POTUS and a lot has been said by the POTUS himself. I'll just add a little more...

Trump has worked extremely hard to create a deeply divided and divisive country. From my perspective I think internationally too.
His tactics of fear and blame shifting, falsehoods and avoidance, nay saying and stacking the house  in his favour may all very well keep him in good stead with this election.

But surely, surely the majority of USA citizen's have fully grokked the real Trump by now?
Surely they've seen, heard and had enough and they will vote this megalomaniac spin-doctoring, lie to win at any cost, poor example of what a leader should be out of the White House?
Surely?

My glass is half full...


----------



## Joe Blow (3 November 2020)

I have commenced closing most threads on US politics but will leave this one open until after the election.

After that I am considering banning US political discussion from ASF entirely.


----------



## basilio (3 November 2020)

Something to think about in terms of Trumps response to losing the  election.
Theoretically this may seem implausible and over the top. 

Then I remembered what I had seen in the Bio op on Dick Chaney.

It's called VICE (Dick Chaney was VP to George Bush). Essentially outlined the playbook.

*How Trump Could Attempt a Coup*
 The Biden team is preparing for the worst. Here are three possible scenarios.

A wretched presidential campaign has played out at last, but Election Day is not how this story ends. Unable to overtake his opponent in the polls, Donald Trump decided months ago to run against the election itself. That race does not conclude when the ballots are counted. Trump has raged against fictional plots to steal his victory, maligning routine procedures such as voting by mail and counting ballots until there are no more to count. His rage will not diminish if he is defeated.

Our electoral system was not built to withstand a sustained assault on its legitimacy. We are capable of defending it, but that is a collective enterprise. A healthy start would be to recognize that the assault has yet to begin in earnest. Election Day and the period to follow will be moments of maximum temptation for Trump. Can he find a way to interfere with the tabulation of votes? Impound ballots in the mail? Dispatch armed personnel to quell alleged disturbances in Democratic neighborhoods?
The battle for American democracy will not be fully joined until the counting starts. That’s when Trump will tell us that his predictions have come true—that the whole procedure is rife with fraud, that the tally is rigged against him, and that no one can be trusted except Trump himself to tell us who won and who lost. The vital questions are whether and how he will try to use his power to subvert the result

_Whether_, I think, is easy. We have been over this before. Trump will not concede defeat. He will use every means at his disposal to maintain a grip on power.









						How Trump Could Attempt a Coup
					

The Biden team is preparing for the worst. Here are three possible scenarios.




					www.theatlantic.com


----------



## Joe Blow (3 November 2020)

Bas, all these partisan articles from third party sources are getting a little tiring, and I haven't even been reading them. You're posting with all the enthusiasm and efficiency of a paid Russian bot, but you're not really adding anything of value.

How about posting your own thoughts instead of these partisan articles? It's becoming very boring and tedious watching you pump these out.


----------



## basilio (3 November 2020)

The elements outlined in the above scenarios are already  taking place.

*US braces for historic election amid fears democracy is in danger *
Biden calls for restoration of America’s character as Trump baselessly stokes fears about vote count


...Trump stepped up his demand for the vote count in the battleground state of Pennsylvania to end on election night, before most of the state’s postal ballots have been counted, and he railed against the supreme court, which had turned down a Republican lawsuit seeking to cut off the count.

“The Supreme Court decision on voting in Pennsylvania is a VERY dangerous one. It will allow rampant and unchecked cheating and will undermine our entire systems of laws. It will also induce violence in the streets. Something must be done!” the president said.









						US braces for historic election amid fears democracy is in danger
					

Biden calls for restoration of America’s character as Trump baselessly stokes fears about vote count




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## moXJO (3 November 2020)

Joe Blow said:


> I have commenced closing most threads on US politics but will leave this one open until after the election.
> 
> After that I am considering banning US political discussion from ASF entirely.



If Trump wins again, then definitely do it.


----------



## PZ99 (3 November 2020)

It probably won't do anything unless _all_ political discussion is banned otherwise US politics will merely find its way into the other political threads anyway. Might be better to just blow up the neighborhood


----------



## Joe Blow (3 November 2020)

PZ99 said:


> It probably won't do anything unless _all_ political discussion is banned otherwise US politics will merely find its way into the other political threads anyway. Might be better to just blow up the neighborhood




I think you're probably right. It's becoming very clear what needs to happen in order to solve this situation. A small handful of people who simply cannot stop pushing partisan political agendas need to be shown the door and escorted off the premises.


----------



## basilio (3 November 2020)

Joe Blow said:


> Bas, all these partisan articles from third party sources are getting a little tiring, and I haven't even been reading them. You're posting with all the enthusiasm and efficiency of a paid Russian bot, but you're not really adding anything of value.
> 
> How about posting your own thoughts instead of these partisan articles? It's becoming very boring and tedious watching you pump these out.




That is sad.. And here I was thinking I was offering a number of constructive , interesting perspectives on what is the most critical election the US and the world has faced to date. Just because I didn't write them doesn't mean they are not of far better value.

Posting my own thoughts ?  OK why not

I reject the statement that that I am posting "partisan articles from third party sources" .  The Atlantic,  CNN, BBC, The ABC, The Guardian, Politico The Hill. Even Fox News ?  Should I include  Briebart or perhaps the Trump approved media as a reading source ?   My view, which  I believe is shared by a very large number of people across all walks of life and experience, is that Donald Trump is one of the most dangerous, lying, self promoting , sociopathitic demagods who has ever ventered into  US politics.  

That view is informed by

The relentless stream of lies and misinformation Trump has inflicted since he announced his inauguration was the biggest in US history
The evidence that many members of his administration had been actively engaged in working with Russian sources to gain political advantage in the last election and the current one
Multiple  public reports/books from Trump staff who have noted how  Trump is ill informed, incompetant and utterly unsuitable for office.
Whistle blower diplomats who highlighted Trumps attempt to use his Presidential  office for personal political goals ie making up dirt on Biden
A stream of life time Republician supporters who have worked on Republician platforms for decades who completly reject Trump and his behaviours as acceptable.  Many of these have actively campaigned against the President in a way that has never been seen in US politics before. That is big
The use of the Presidency to enrich Trumps personal wealth in complete disregard for the ethics of  goveranance.
This isn't the place for a book so lets stop there.

As far as "posting like a Russian Bot" ? Really ?  Perhaps one might like to check out the numerous Twitter references favoured by posters with the other perspective. The ones relentlessly trying to drum up a belief that Biden is corrupt because somehow the stinkiest computer story in the world has only been promoted across the right wing blogosphere ( and  here of course) .

What above the repeated, repeated efforts to show Biden is demented by using doctored videos ? Pointing out that these videos are manipulated doesn't cut any ice here of course because, after all, "who cares" ? And anyway the organisations debunking them are - MSM aren't they?

Same goes for posts that try to gin up Trumps position in the polls - by using data that 7 months old and pretending its still relevant.

Sometimes trying to be "even handed" doesn't work.  Some situations are overwhelmingly weighted in one direction or another.  This is one such issue.

I'm not at ease with trying to pretend otherwise and ignoring overwhelming evidence of dangerous situations. The current situation with the political situation in the US and its implications for all of us, in every way, is why I take the trouble to research, post and debunk on ASF.

Cheers

Bas


----------



## PZ99 (3 November 2020)

This is the one I look at - also up to date...






Minus 25 for Biden since I last looked 









						Biden vs Trump: live results 2020
					

Map and results of the US presidential and congressional elections




					ig.ft.com


----------



## basilio (3 November 2020)

I thought this site offered a creative way to see the  voting scenarios in the US election













						2020 Election Forecast
					

Latest forecast of the 2020 presidential election between President Donald Trump and Joe Biden by Nate Silver’s FiveThirtyEight




					projects.fivethirtyeight.com


----------



## moXJO (3 November 2020)

Its ok Joe. Once Biden wins no one is talking US politics anymore.


----------



## Lucky777 (3 November 2020)

Bet about $1k for Trump win


----------



## Lucky777 (3 November 2020)

My 2c

Coming from a younger dude, we generally consume media from different websites - YouTube, Reddit, Twitch, Instagram and Facebook. Majority favour Trump now, we see the facts of his foreign policy, economic handling and his general view of making America great again - who wants China #1? Unless you sell your soul haha.

There are even political channels on YouTube covering this - Tim Pool is a journalist from Vice who was a previous democrat voter. He has over 3 million subscribers on his three channels covering the elections. The left has controlled media and the internet and it has gone down the emotional path that averts your attention to the facts. Facts don’t lie. It is fake news. Trump has been great, we will see who wins tomorrow. Good luck to all, I would say these elections really are life changing as we will see the end of cancel culture and the progressive left destroying true values day by day for socialist idealistic Marxism.


----------



## PZ99 (3 November 2020)

Lucky777 said:


> Bet about $1k for Trump win



This election or the last ?


----------



## Joe Blow (4 November 2020)

I have tidied up this thread a little and moved a number of posts to another thread. They can now be found here.


----------



## DB008 (4 November 2020)

Lucky777 said:


> Bet about $1k for Trump win






*British gambler bets $5 million on Trump in biggest-ever political wager*​

A British gambler has reportedly staked $5 million on President Trump winning Tuesday’s election — a wager believed to be the largest-ever political bet.​​The former banker used private bookmakers registered on the Caribbean island of Curacao for the bet at odds of 37/20 — meaning he could get a $15 million payout, sources told the Sun.​​The mystery gambler confidently went all-in after consulting with “Trump camp insiders,” according to the report.​​“Word of this bet has done the rounds and we think it’s the biggest ever made on politics,” one betting industry source told the UK paper.​

https://nypost.com/2020/11/03/mystery-brit-gambles-5m-on-trump-win-in-record-setting-bet/






*Presidential Election Results*


https://www.foxnews.com/elections/2020/general-results


https://electproject.github.io/Early-Vote-2020G/index.html


https://www.politico.com/2020-election/results/


https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/


https://www.realclearpolitics.com/elections/2020/#!



.​


----------



## PZ99 (4 November 2020)

Live update linky thingy > https://www.politico.com/2020-election/results/

US market seems to have made up its mind between red and blue by going a bit green


----------



## spooly74 (4 November 2020)

Florida looks locked up for Trump early.
He's ~150K up and growing.
Finished 113K up in 2016.


----------



## moXJO (4 November 2020)

Markets up a lot. But we need a very clear winner or it will be months of protests.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (4 November 2020)

The count is quite exciting.

XAO down 0.6%

gg


----------



## moXJO (4 November 2020)

We have reached peak misinformation. Don't bother looking at anything except the numbers. Mail in votes will make early count leads bogus.
A lot of mail ins as well. Majority would be Democrat as Republicans don't trust it.


----------



## wayneL (4 November 2020)

At this point in time Betfair punters have Trump odds on to win. Could the polls have been wrong yet again?


----------



## satanoperca (4 November 2020)

Or they are trying to balance their books.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (4 November 2020)

wayneL said:


> At this point in time Betfair punters have Trump odds on to win. Could the polls have been wrong yet again?
> 
> View attachment 114193



Looking at the returns atm I'd call it a narrow win for the Orange Fool. 

gg


----------



## wayneL (4 November 2020)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Looking at the returns atm I'd call it a narrow win for the Orange Fool.
> 
> gg



At some stage that democrats will win the presidency again.

I will be very happy if the God Emperor holds out this lot of rabble this time.

But if and when it happens I hope it is this particular lady that pulls it off.


----------



## dutchie (4 November 2020)

Trump is the President for another 4 years.  YAY


----------



## wayneL (4 November 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Or they are trying to balance their books.



Betfair doesn't work that way, it peer to peer.


----------



## spooly74 (4 November 2020)

wayneL said:


> At this point in time Betfair punters have Trump odds on to win. Could the polls have been wrong yet again?
> 
> View attachment 114193



Chinese Yuan is tanking, too.

This is going to get ugly for the Dems.


----------



## wayneL (4 November 2020)

spooly74 said:


> Chinese Yuan is tanking, too.
> 
> This is going to get ugly for the Dems.



Snap, was just going to post that too.

Corollarily(sic), DXY is on a tear.


----------



## sptrawler (4 November 2020)

The ABC (Australia) has it Biden 212/ Trump 119, but in very small letters they say "with ABC predictions".

It may be wishfull thinking?









						2020 US election live results: Biden passes 270
					

Stay up to date with the results as they come in with our interactive live vote counter.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## PZ99 (4 November 2020)

Apparently...  "some of these may come ahead of predictions by US outlets, and that's because many of them wait until polls have closed before declaring results. Green is giving away all states where the average poll lead is greater than 10 per cent. "

Add Florida, Texas and it closes nicely.


----------



## Joules MM1 (4 November 2020)

the 44% ASF who voted DJT
enjoy


electoral college votes that count so far
Biden 209 
Trump 118

#crowe


----------



## satanoperca (4 November 2020)

How much will the postal vote change the direction?

I don't know, but is the vast majority of early counts, in person voting?


----------



## Knobby22 (4 November 2020)

Its  looking close at present so probably better if Trump wins. No point Biden getting in with a hostile senate and achieving nothing.


----------



## PZ99 (4 November 2020)

I have Trump on 289 versus Biden 251.

That about right ?


----------



## spooly74 (4 November 2020)

PZ99 said:


> I have Trump on 289 versus Biden 251.
> 
> That about right ?



You got AZ & VA for Biden?


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (4 November 2020)

satanoperca said:


> How much will the postal vote change the direction?
> 
> I don't know, but is the vast majority of early counts, in person voting?



Looking at the returns atm I'd call it a narrow win for Ole Joe. Arizona has gone blue. 

We won't know for a few days or up to a week some say. This is not good for stocks. This is my concern. I'm over picking sides.

I really couldn't give a rats which old fool wins as long as my stocks keep on going up.  

Its just me. I've always been altruistic.

gg


----------



## PZ99 (4 November 2020)

spooly74 said:


> You got AZ for Biden?



Yes.


----------



## spooly74 (4 November 2020)

PZ99 said:


> Yes.



No in person voting has been counted there yet.
Seem to be calling early for Biden and holding back Trump.
But agree, can't see a path for Biden to 270.


----------



## moXJO (4 November 2020)

Im sticking with the polls of a Biden win. If Trump wins I will throw rotten vegetables at pollsters forever more.


----------



## PZ99 (4 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> Im sticking with the polls of a Biden win. If Trump wins* I will throw rotten vegetables at pollsters forever more.*



... in jubilation or disgust ?


----------



## wayneL (4 November 2020)

Even if Biden eventually wins here, the polls to still come out smelling like rotten fish.

The polls have Biden in a landslide and that clearly is not happening.


----------



## sptrawler (4 November 2020)

The ABC (Australia) has it Biden 212/ Trump 119, but in very small letters they say "with ABC predictions".

It may be wishfull thinking? 

Three hours later Biden 226/ Trump 175, ABC might be best just to report actual figures and drop predictions. Lol


----------



## moXJO (4 November 2020)

PZ99 said:


> ... in jubilation or disgust ?



Throwing stuff at number guys (that get it wrong) just feels right in a Trump win.

Dems need Nevada, Wisconsin, Michigan, 1 from Nebraska, if they don't win PA


----------



## moXJO (4 November 2020)

Boxes of mail ballots turning up in suspect looking circumstances. Lawyers and poll watches everywhere though.


----------



## moXJO (4 November 2020)

Anyone hear how Kanye is doing?


----------



## wayneL (4 November 2020)

Twitter has censored a pretty innocuous Trump tweet.

Really? Does it really matter at this stage?

This is an area which will be really interesting after the election is over and done, what is done with the tech giants.


----------



## bellenuit (4 November 2020)

As widely predicted would happen....


----------



## sptrawler (4 November 2020)

bellenuit said:


> As widely predicted would happen....
> 
> View attachment 114200



I'm not sure in the U.S, but in Australia isn't there a cut off date for postal votes to be submitted, so that they have arrived before polling day?
Isn't this to stop people voting ,when they may have an indication, of which way the election is going?
Or is it the case that postal votes in Australia are accepted after polling day?
I'm not sure which is correct.


----------



## wayneL (4 November 2020)

I wouldn't get too conspiratorial just yet, but there seems to have been some dodgy things going on in some places.

SC challenge just *may* be justified. We'll see.


----------



## bellenuit (4 November 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I'm not sure in the U.S, but in Australia isn't there a cut off date for postal votes to be submitted, so that they have arrived before polling day?
> Isn't this to stop people voting ,when they may have an indication, of which way the election is going?




I believe it is different for every voting precinct. What is important is that the rules are set by the local officials and not by the president. He can't change the rules just to suit himself. It also seems that he is not trying to stop postal votes being submitted after today, but stopping votes being counted after today.  As far as I know the military is allowed a week for their votes to be counted after the election day.

He has also declared himself the winner and that the vote is a fraud.

This is big dictator stuff.


----------



## SirRumpole (4 November 2020)

bellenuit said:


> I believe it is different for every voting precinct. What is important is that the rules are set by the local officials and not by the president. He can't change the rules just to suit himself. It also seems that he is not trying to stop postal votes being submitted after today, but stopping votes being counted after today.  As far as I know the military is allowed a week for their votes to be counted after the election day.
> 
> He has also declared himself the winner and that the vote is a fraud.
> 
> This is big dictator stuff.




It also means he thinks he's losing/lost.


----------



## bellenuit (4 November 2020)

bellenuit said:


> It also seems that he is not trying to stop postal votes being submitted after today, but stopping votes being counted after today




I need to qualify this. What he wants is for votes that have not yet arrived in election centres to not be counted. These votes may have well been submitted before whatever deadline has been set, but are still in the postal system (we know the story there).


----------



## sptrawler (4 November 2020)

bellenuit said:


> I need to qualify this. What he wants is for votes that have not yet arrived in election centres to not be counted. These votes may have well been submitted before whatever deadline has been set, but are still in the postal system (we know the story there).



That is what I was wondering, I don't think votes that arrive after polling day are accepted, I'm not sure on that so asked the question.
But in reality it does make sense, because it would be very open to corruption of outcomes, if votes that come in after polling day were accepted.
I didn't know if that was what Trump was inferring, but if it was IMO he has every right to complain.
The votes up to and including election day, should in reality give the same outcome, those received after election day should be null and void IMO.
By the way I don't really care about the outcome, I would prefer the U.S to keep holding China to account, but that will have to happen anyway.
If they don't they will descend into a U.K style spent force, without the welfare system and the luxury of 'old money' and that would be tragic for western first world countries.
But hey that will happen long after I'm gone and probably after my grandkids have gone. 👍
Just my thoughts.
Some have asked me, why do I put "just my thoughts" after a post, I do that because I don't want to argue about it, as I said it is just a thought.
If I really think something I said is right and I will stand by it, I don't add that comment, then by all means lets argue.  😂


----------



## PZ99 (4 November 2020)

Presumably the mail in ballots will be judged the same way as in 2016 ?

Donald Trump accepted it then.... so no wuckers right ? 

" An ABC News analysis of the last two election cycles (2016 and 2018), found that more than 750,000 mail-in ballots were rejected, about 1.2% of the total ballots returned, mainly for not having valid signatures and being sent in on time. 

More than 500,000 ballots were rejected in this year's primaries alone, the first test of the pandemic voting system, and a similar pattern appears to be emerging in the general election. "









						750,000 mail-in ballots were rejected in 2016 and 2018. Here's why that matters.
					

750,000 mail-in ballots were rejected in 2016 and 2018. Here's why that matters.




					abcnews.go.com


----------



## SirRumpole (4 November 2020)

What a stupid system, letting politicians (State governors) run the voting system.

I wonder if they will ever have an independent election authority like most civilised countries.


----------



## bellenuit (4 November 2020)

sptrawler said:


> But in reality it does make sense, because it would be very open to corruption of outcomes, if votes that come in after polling day were accepted.
> I didn't know if that was what Trump was inferring, but if it was IMO he has every right to complain.




As far as I understand it, postal votes are valid so long as they are post stamped on or before the date set by the relevant election officials. It can take several days after the election for all to be received and so long as they meet the posted deadline and signature verification they are still valid. That is what Trump is trying to stop and why he needs to get the Supreme court to annul them. 

The big issue is Trump calling the counting of these votes a fraud, even though the meet the established protocols. Should he lose the election (unlikely) because of these votes, how do you think his far right nutty supporters with their guns will react?


----------



## bellenuit (4 November 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> What a stupid system, letting politicians (State governors) run the voting system.




Yes, completely ridiculous. Voting procedures are set by partisan local officials. They not only control the procedure to be followed, but also the placement of voting stations, opening times etc., which can be set to disenfranchise particular communities, as not all people can attend at the times and locations available.


----------



## sptrawler (4 November 2020)

Well this is the first U.S election I have taken any interest in, after 65 years on the planet, so at least it has struck a chord for the first time. Lol


----------



## sptrawler (4 November 2020)

The ABC (Australia) has it Biden 212/ Trump 119, but in very small letters they say "with ABC predictions". post # 192 at 11.40a.m


Three hours later Biden 226/ Trump 175, ABC might be best just to report actual figures and drop predictions. Lol post #205 at 1.56p.m

Another three hours later Biden 238/ Trump 213, but the good thing is the ABC has dropped its prediction, I don't know who was paid for that waste of space. 😂


----------



## spooly74 (4 November 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> What a stupid system, letting politicians (State governors) run the voting system.



It’s Ridiculous.
They’re simply vote hunting.


----------



## bellenuit (4 November 2020)

Just watching Bloomberg and they gave the rules for Nevada. Apparently mail in ballots can be dated up to today  and must be received by Nov 10th. Counting is allowed up to Nov 12th.

If they are the rules set for that state, why should a candidate try to override them


----------



## spooly74 (4 November 2020)

spooly74 said:


> It’s Ridiculous.
> They’re simply vote hunting.
> View attachment 114203



170k vote dump with 30k for Trump in Wisconsin. Seems legit.
They found them.


----------



## sptrawler (4 November 2020)

bellenuit said:


> Just watching Bloomberg and they gave the rules for Nevada. Apparently mail in ballots can be dated up to today  and must be received by Nov 10th. Counting is allowed up to Nov 12th.
> 
> If they are the rules set for that state, why should a candidate try to override them



Well that begs the next question, has anybody tried to override them? Or is it ramping by the media? time will tell.
It certainly has been an interesting four years, it will be good when everything goes back to normal and all the plebs have to worry about is what fast food they are having on Friday night. 👍
Also the media will be able to just return to talking about sport and how the latest movie star has broken their nails, life was so much easier back then.
Just my thoughts.


----------



## Knobby22 (4 November 2020)

Been watching some analysts. In some states like Florida they counted the postal votes in advance so they would be ready on the night  it takes a lot of time to count them, you have to check the signature, the security number, allocate it to the right area etc.  This happens every election and they have a few weeks to do it after the date of the election.

What happened this year is in the swing states in the north east, as they were Republican controlled, they stopped any pre counting. The cynical plan was then to claim the election on the night and say the votes are corrupt.

In fact, in these states, as the voting continues the Democrats will catch up and likely win. 

Biden is by far the most likely to win this election from the figures seen. As he has Arizona he only needs 2 out of the 4, any 2. Trump needs 3.

Biden has possibly won unless Trump can stop the votes being counted  i can't seeing this happening.

Michigan for instance will likely be won by Biden. It overall is too close to call though.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (4 November 2020)

Voting early and often is essential in democracies. Especially in the USA.

For example if one were American and had a friend whose intended vote you know who dies, or perhaps is unwell, or even in mourning having had a bad run shorting stocks subject to takeover, would it not be the gentlemanly thing for one to vote for him or her according to his or her preference.

The more votes counted, the better the result.

gg


----------



## moXJO (4 November 2020)

A lot closer then any news site predicted.


----------



## moXJO (4 November 2020)

Why did they stop counting votes in the swing states?

I heard Pennsylvania is allowed to accept mail in ballots with no postmark that turn up to 3 days after the election.

That's pretty dodgy but a Supreme Court upheld it.


----------



## moXJO (4 November 2020)

spooly74 said:


> 170k vote dump with 30k for Trump in Wisconsin. Seems legit.
> They found them.



Ballots appearing in boxes from out of nowhere. By the exact amount Biden needed to win it by.

And that's it people. Looking at what's left, it's now president Biden for the next 4 years.

Bust open the champagne Bas all that hard shilling paid off.😁


----------



## sptrawler (5 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> Ballots appearing in boxes from out of nowhere. By the exact amount Biden needed to win it by.
> 
> And that's it people. Looking at what's left, it's now president Biden for the next 4 years.
> 
> Bust open the champagne Bas all that hard shilling paid off.😁



Oh well back to business as usual, more Chinese made stuff = more minerals and more fifo.
We might get some bigger warehouses, so we don't get caught out without masks and toilet paper, next time. 😂
Time will tell, I guess.
At least the papers can get back to climate change.


----------



## bellenuit (5 November 2020)

Rules for Pennsylvania: Postal votes allowed up until election day. Will be counted if they arrive in the following 3 days.


----------



## moXJO (5 November 2020)

bellenuit said:


> Rules for Pennsylvania: Postal votes allowed up until election day. Will be counted if they arrive in the following 3 days.



The justices divided 4-4 on Monday, an outcome that upholds a state Supreme Court ruling that required county election officials to receive and count mailed-in ballots that arrive up until Nov. 6, even if they don't have a clear postmark, as long as there is not proof it was mailed after the polls closed.


----------



## moXJO (5 November 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Oh well back to business as usual, more Chinese made stuff = more minerals and more fifo.
> We might get some bigger warehouses, so we don't get caught out without masks and toilet paper, next time. 😂
> Time will tell, I guess.
> At least the papers can get back to climate change.



Now its back to listening to: climate, vegan, lgbt, social justice warrior, PC and hurt feelings whinging.

Me, I can finally retire from the Trump threads. Joe get ready to lock em all down.


----------



## Knobby22 (5 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> Now its back to listening to: climate, vegan, lgbt, social justice warrior, PC and hurt feelings whinging.
> 
> Me, I can finally retire from the Trump threads. Joe get ready to lock em all down.



Itsa pyrrhic victory if it happens. No control of the Senate so the first thing that will happen is that the stimulus will be turned off by the Republicans and Biden will oversee 4 years of USA recession and achieve no change and watch the courts remove healthcare for poor people.

Better for the Dems and the people that he fails and Trump continues but for a lot of Republicans actually in politics this is  the ideal. They will be back in complete control in 4 years and have got rid of Trump.

Really sucks.


----------



## PZ99 (5 November 2020)

PZ99 said:


> I have Trump on 289 versus Biden 251.
> 
> That about right ?



Hmm - got that one wrong


----------



## wayneL (5 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> Ballots appearing in boxes from out of nowhere. By the exact amount Biden needed to win it by.



Curious that


----------



## PZ99 (5 November 2020)

All of a sudden, grey votes matter


----------



## Knobby22 (5 November 2020)

Disinformation being spread.

Everyone knew the postal votes would cut towards Biden.
As I said earlier, the Republicans stopped early counting in the swing states which meant due to the long process of checking that Biden would start behind and slowly catch up.

The next question is whether Trump will deliberately create civil unrest. He seems willing to do and say anything.


----------



## PZ99 (5 November 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> The next question is whether Trump will deliberately create civil unrest. He seems willing to do and say anything.



I actually hope he does and thus embarrass his supporters... that would be Biden's best asset.


----------



## dutchie (5 November 2020)

The election fraud now occurring by the Democrats will only get worse over the next decades.


----------



## IFocus (5 November 2020)

What a mess court actions to stop valid votes.


----------



## dutchie (5 November 2020)

wayneL said:


> Curious that




More than curios. Obvious fraud.


----------



## DB008 (5 November 2020)

dutchie said:


> The election fraud now occurring by the Democrats will only get worse over the next decades.






138,000 additional votes, and none went to Trump (or the other candidates), only Biden.

If that ain't voter fraud, l don't know what is....


----------



## Knobby22 (5 November 2020)

Its called deliberate disinformation.
It ain't true.


----------



## wayneL (5 November 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Its called deliberate disinformation.
> It ain't true.



What disinformation?


----------



## sptrawler (5 November 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Itsa pyrrhic victory if it happens. No control of the Senate so the first thing that will happen is that the stimulus will be turned off by the Republicans and Biden will oversee 4 years of USA recession and achieve no change and watch the courts remove healthcare for poor people.
> 
> Better for the Dems and the people that he fails and Trump continues but for a lot of Republicans actually in politics this is  the ideal. They will be back in complete control in 4 years and have got rid of Trump.
> 
> Really sucks.



So just to clarify, did Trump and the Republicans have control of both houses, during his tenure?


----------



## spooly74 (5 November 2020)

sptrawler said:


> So just to clarify, did Trump and the Republicans have control of both houses, during his tenure?



Lost the House in 2018


----------



## moXJO (5 November 2020)

IFocus said:


> What a mess court actions to stop valid votes.



That's not true. They didnt want more votes being "found" after the cut-off time.



Knobby22 said:


> Its called deliberate disinformation.
> It ain't true.



It did happen.
But apparently was a "typo" and was corrected.


----------



## Knobby22 (5 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> That's not true. They didnt want more votes being "found" after the cut-off time.
> 
> 
> It did happen.
> But apparently was a "typo" and was corrected.



Yes there is no Republican scrutinisers anywhere and they are appearing from thick air.
All total BS.


----------



## moXJO (5 November 2020)

This is where mail-in votes will undo any unity.
Court challenges ain't going to save Trump, he is gone. I doubt there will be many fraudulent votes. Thats not how it works. Biden calling for unity will most certainly get flat out rejected. On top of that blm and antifa want to ramp up the demonstrations to get Biden to heel. 

As for fraudulent votes, thats not how its done.
Ballot harvesting is how the Democrats win it. They send out teams to influence or buy the votes. Some are paid or are volunteers. Dems have it down to a science and its hard to detect. We had a few speak out about it to the media, but it was largely ignored. And it was one of the reasons I couldn't see Trump winning. Coronavirus was a God send for the Democrats.
Mail ins was assured. 

We had media, polls, Hollywood, big tech, rioters all pushing Biden. There was some big money spent. 
And it was still close, that actually surprised me.
But this was another reason I couldn't see Trump winning. 

I think it was a good study for the many centre of the road types on here.
Many will just shrug and scratch their head, not giving much thought to what just happened. But this was not a normal election by any standard.
Just look at how skewed the polls were in favour of Biden. The whole thing was suss from day dot of the "Russian Collusion".


----------



## moXJO (5 November 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> Yes there is no Republican scrutinisers anywhere and they are appearing from thick air.
> All total BS.



It was a Republican that reported it when it happened and posted the graphic. It was changed and marked as a "typo" and he then posted the update. 
It went viral, so it's out there now.

Here is the update:



0 trump to 15,371 biden is still suss if that's what the numbers were.


----------



## DB008 (5 November 2020)

another gaffe or serious...???


​


----------



## greggles (5 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> Anyone hear how Kanye is doing?




There's always next time...


----------



## satanoperca (5 November 2020)

greggles said:


> There's always next time...




30M followers = 60K votes = 0.002% can get a better conversion rate on Adwords. Just shows that followers are not real - more fake news


----------



## moXJO (5 November 2020)

satanoperca said:


> 30M followers = 60K votes = 0.002% can get a better conversion rate on Adwords. Just shows that followers are not real - more fake news



I wonder why these guys run when there is little chance of winning?
Do they get some kind of benefit.


----------



## satanoperca (5 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> I wonder why these guys run when there is little chance of winning?
> Do they get some kind of benefit.



Because he thinks his 30M followers are real.


----------



## bellenuit (5 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> I wonder why these guys run when there is little chance of winning?
> Do they get some kind of benefit.




I believe in his case it was to draw some fo the black vote away from Biden, as Kanye is a Trumpophile. It didn't work.


----------



## IFocus (5 November 2020)

Mo, the court action is to the counting of valid votes, who does that?


----------



## moXJO (5 November 2020)

IFocus said:


> Mo, the court action is to the counting of valid votes, who does that?



If that's true it will simply be thrown out. They need a valid reason to bring it to court. Either way Trump is done.

People that can't understand why he is fighting, might not get the attitude to it. Which is basically "fight till your last breath".  Needless to say you don't want to regret not trying everything you possibly can.

In saying that, he has no chance. Biden is prez.


----------



## moXJO (5 November 2020)

bellenuit said:


> I believe in his case it was to draw some fo the black vote away from Biden, as Kanye is a Trumpophile. It didn't work.



This is what I figured as well. But wasn't there others who ran as well?


----------



## satanoperca (5 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> In saying that, he has no chance. Biden is prez.




But that is only part of the equation.

Biden might be president but without the senate, he can do nothing, seems Dems will win the lower house, if they win the Senate, going to be very interesting.


----------



## moXJO (5 November 2020)

satanoperca said:


> But that is only part of the equation.
> 
> Biden might be president but without the senate, he can do nothing, seems Dems will win the lower house, if they win the Senate, going to be very interesting.
> 
> View attachment 114236



Given the rinos in the wafer thin swing states. I think dems have a good chance of passing the sensible stuff. Can always use presidential orders.


----------



## moXJO (5 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> This is what I figured as well. But wasn't there others who ran as well?



Here's the list here. Over a thousand of them.
https://ballotpedia.org/List_of_registered_2020_presidential_candidates


----------



## Joules MM1 (5 November 2020)

still not going well accordian to DJT


----------



## basilio (5 November 2020)

Update on US election results Thursday evening Australia time.

Welcome to our continued live coverage of the US election. Here’s where we are up to…


*Joe Biden has won more votes than any US presidential candidate in history – but the race for the White House remains too close to call*.
Based on the states that Associated Press (AP) has called, *Biden needs just one more state to get over the 270 threshold in the electoral college to be declared the winner*.
*Georgia, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Nevada and Alaska remain to be called*. Biden has a narrow lead in Nevada, and Democrats believe he will overhaul Trump’s lead in at least one of Georgia or Pennsylvania as the last remaining votes are counted.
*The Nevada result should come through today*. It is expected at lunchtime in the US, around 5pm in the UK
*There’s a slight question mark over the status of Arizona*. AP and Fox News have called it for Biden, other news organisations aren’t so confident of the result, and the Trump campaign are still predicting they will ultimately win there. Biden’s lead is down to 68,000 with more mail-in ballots to count.
*Trump supporters protested at a Detroit vote-counting site, and outside a Phoenix election center. *The crowd called upon Michigan election officials to “stop the vote”. In Phoenix, Trump supporters demanded the opposite, telling officials to keep counting as Biden’s lead narrowed.
*Twitter flagged more of Trump’s tweets for pushing misinformation about the election results. *The president shared a tweet thread this evening trying to “claim” multiple battleground states that he has not won. Obviously, those “claims” have no legal standing in a US election.
*You can find our full live results service here*.
*We also have the full results for Congress*, where the Democrats’ attempt to flip the Senate appears to have faltered.
The election isn’t the only story in town. *Yesterday the US set a new world record for daily coronavirus cases, with 102,831 recorded*. There were *1,097 deaths*.

I’m Martin Belam, and I will be with you for the next few hours – you can get in touch with me at martin.belam@theguardian.com. And while we are settling in to our new home, you might want to have a scroll back through what has been happening overnight.
*US election live: Joe Biden nearer to threshold for victory but race still too close to call                            *




               Read more


----------



## IFocus (5 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> Given the rinos in the wafer thin swing states. I think dems have a good chance of passing the sensible stuff. Can always use presidential orders.





If Biden gets up given the GOP have previously blocked everything when holding the senate so I think will do so again, not a lot will happen and Presidential orders have to remain inside existing polices.

Only hope for Biden will be the elections in two years time depending how many and which senators are up.


----------



## bellenuit (5 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> People that can't understand why he is fighting, might not get the attitude to it. Which is basically "fight till your last breath".




He has no choice. I expect he and his family to be convicted of many serious fraud and other charges and will end up in jail. He has been hiding behind the cloak of the presidency up to now and that will disappear when he leaves office. I expect many of the corrupt officials that he appointed like Barr who have also been protecting him will be dumped as soon as Biden is inaugurated (assuming senate approval isn't required).

There is a lot of stuff that has been building up that the various jurisdictions have held back on, knowing that Trump and his cronies would simply stifle any prosecution. I think these will go ahead in January.


----------



## dutchie (5 November 2020)

bellenuit said:


> He has no choice. I expect he and his family to be convicted of many serious fraud and other charges and will end up in jail. He has been hiding behind the cloak of the presidency up to now and that will disappear when he leaves office. I expect many of the corrupt officials that he appointed like Barr who have also been protecting him will be dumped as soon as Biden is inaugurated (assuming senate approval isn't required).
> 
> There is a lot of stuff that has been building up that the various jurisdictions have held back on, knowing that Trump and his cronies would simply stifle any prosecution. I think these will go ahead in January.



What specific thing has he done that will put him in jail.


----------



## bellenuit (5 November 2020)

dutchie said:


> What specific thing has he done that will put him in jail.




You will see, otherwise DYOR.


----------



## dutchie (5 November 2020)

bellenuit said:


> You will see, otherwise DYOR.



So nothing.


----------



## spooly74 (6 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> If that's true it will simply be thrown out. They need a valid reason to bring it to court. Either way Trump is done.
> 
> People that can't understand why he is fighting, might not get the attitude to it. Which is basically "fight till your last breath".  Needless to say you don't want to regret not trying everything you possibly can.
> 
> In saying that, he has no chance. Biden is prez.



I'm not sure.
On face value, yes. The mailed votes are running at >70% Biden.
But Trump has been going on about voter fraud for years. If he hasn't prepared for this, he's gone.

Interestingly, it appears that authentic ballots have watermarks and microdots on them.
And, with votes outstripping voter registration in the yet to be decided swing states, which is basically impossible based on historical numbers, Trump will fight this all the way.


----------



## dutchie (6 November 2020)

spooly74 said:


> Trump will fight this all the way.



And so he should, although in the end it will be a waste of time.
The markets certainly are not unhappy (+2%). Probably because the Republicans will hold the Senate and be a buffer to too much Democratic extreme policies (for the next four years anyway).
A one party country is just around the corner ( and it is not Republican).
No doubt we will see the socialist side of the Democrat party be the most vocal and dominant.
The US however has shown how internally weak it is and the likes of China and Russia will benefit from this.
Further aggression from China will put our relationship to the test. But $'s and not principles will win in the end.
Stand by for further ownership of Australian assets by China and greater political influence and interference.
Don't worry we will still send all our iron ore to them, and that is what is important - is it not!


----------



## spooly74 (6 November 2020)

dutchie said:


> Probably because the Republicans will hold the Senate and be a buffer to too much Democratic extreme policies (for the next four years anyway).



How can the Senate & House be practically sorted but not the Presidency?
It's implying that some ballots didn't down vote?


----------



## dutchie (6 November 2020)

spooly74 said:


> How can the Senate & House be practically sorted but not the Presidency?
> It's implying that some ballots didn't down vote?



Exactly. So many inconsistencies. Only answer - ballot fraud.


----------



## dutchie (6 November 2020)

spooly74 said:


> How can the Senate & House be practically sorted but not the Presidency?
> It's implying that some ballots didn't down vote?



*Why Does Biden Have So Many More Votes Than Democrat Senators In Swing States?*




__





						Why Does Biden Have So Many More Votes Than Democrat Senators In Swing States? | ZeroHedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com


----------



## basilio (6 November 2020)

There will be a run off Senate Election in  Georgia for the two Senate seats on January 5th 2021.

This is probably the last opportunity for Biden to gain control of the Senate. If the Dems get these two Senators the tie is 50/50 with the Vice President Having the deciding vote









						Control of U.S. Senate Hinges on Georgia Results
					

Democrat Raphael Warnock’s race against Republican Sen. Kelly Loeffler is headed to a Jan. 5 runoff, while the contest between Democrat Jon Ossoff and Republican Sen. David Perdue could be as well.




					www.wsj.com


----------



## dutchie (6 November 2020)

basilio said:


> There will be a run off Senate Election in  Georgia for the two Senate seats on January 5th 2021.
> 
> This is probably the last opportunity for Biden to gain control of the Senate. If the Dems get these two Senators the tie is 50/50 with the Vice President Having the deciding vote
> 
> ...



That will change things dramatically and push forward total Democrat rule of the US in the years to come.


----------



## moXJO (6 November 2020)

basilio said:


> Update on US election results Thursday evening Australia time.
> 
> Welcome to our continued live coverage of the US election. Here’s where we are up to…
> 
> ...




 I'm not sure why the media thinks he has a chance. Perhaps being extra careful. It was written on the wall election night.


----------



## IFocus (6 November 2020)

dutchie said:


> So nothing.





Trump is exposed to  state attorney generals and there a number of cases pending , it will be a problem for Trump and his family particularly if the political winds start blowing against him, he has made many enemy's inside the GOP so it will be interesting. 

I think Trump will be in trouble.


----------



## IFocus (6 November 2020)

As for voter fraud the international agency that over sees the US election each time has reported no fraud so far, this rings true as the Trump campaign has only made claims where they are losing the vote or its turning against them.

Unfortunately Trump continues to increase the divide and anger for his own benefit failing the leadership test again.


----------



## moXJO (6 November 2020)

IFocus said:


> As for voter fraud the international agency that over sees the US election each time has reported no fraud so far, this rings true as the Trump campaign has only made claims where they are losing the vote or its turning against them.
> 
> Unfortunately Trump continues to increase the divide and anger for his own benefit failing the leadership test again.



There's been a few cases so far. But not enough to change much. Some of the mail in Trump votes have been found all over the place. Dead people voting. Voter suppression. But nothing on a scale that would change Trumps chances.

I mentioned this way back before the election. Democrats ballot harvesting is a finely tuned machine. It was extremely well funded ( half a billion or more on dem spending) and had a lot of grassroots support. 

If covid didn't come along that gave the dems the chance to change mail-in voting rules then dems would have lost by a large margin. (Un)fortunately  that's not what happened.

I will say this: Trump did better than the polls were showing. He worked extremely hard doing 3-4 rallies a day. With all negative news media and big tech suppression. Truly was a grassroots effort. I think he had some of the largest turnouts for a president ever. 

I'm wondering who will inspire his base. You also have a lot of Trump kids. I
f Biden doesn't hit the ground running (and not just for his supporters) he will be in a world of hurt in 2 years.


----------



## moXJO (6 November 2020)

I also wonder which direction dems will go regarding China and the Middle East.

Australia may have to backtrack and kiss Chinas ass again, while we diversify out.


----------



## IFocus (6 November 2020)

Trump getting the numbers he has is to me the story, hopefully its researched and deciphered why the US continues to buy into Trumps schtick.

Its helped me understand to a degree when Trump was described as "the US un-masked".

Having travelled the West Coast in the 80's the contradictions were extreme by any description in so called liberal states.


----------



## wayneL (6 November 2020)

I7


moXJO said:


> There's been a few cases so far. But not enough to change much. Some of the mail in Trump votes have been found all over the place. Dead people voting. Voter suppression. But nothing on a scale that would change Trumps chances.
> 
> I mentioned this way back before the election. Democrats ballot harvesting is a finely tuned machine. It was extremely well funded ( half a billion or more on dem spending) and had a lot of grassroots support.
> 
> ...



I think if the alleged fraud is fair dinkum, I think it most certainly would have been enough to change the election result.

My first client this morning is a retired barrister who has family in the law business in the u.s. (the US part of the family  are dems by the way), and was on the phone to one of them when I arrived.

All are pretty certain that the election is in the process of being stolen.

Whether anything can effectively be done about it remains to be seen. Law, or rather, the practice of law, is some weird **** sometimes; justice is not always served by the law.


----------



## satanoperca (6 November 2020)

wayneL said:


> All are pretty certain that the election is in the process of being stolen.



Sounds like good old lawyer speak, say something that means nothing.

Stolen by whom and from whom?


----------



## spooly74 (6 November 2020)

wayneL said:


> I7
> 
> I think if the alleged fraud is fair dinkum, I think it most certainly would have been enough to change the election result.
> 
> ...



The deviation in Michigan of registered voters to votes cast is off the charts from a historical perspective.
Apparently calculated at 1 in 2 Billion chance.

Dead people voting.
Nevada has over 9K suspected illegal votes & counting.
Videos of vote counters filling in ballots.
Postal service back dating late mail in ballots.
Dems not voting down ballot - This is the one that's really interesting. Did they not have time with a mail in ballot to vote in the House or Senate? or had to fill them in on the fly, again, unprecedented historically.

This isn't over by a long way.
I hope Trump fights to the death.

Merica is on the line.


----------



## spooly74 (6 November 2020)

This is a federal crime.
This woman is going to a federal prison.


----------



## satanoperca (6 November 2020)

spooly74 said:


> Nevada has over 9K suspected illegal votes & counting.




WOW, lets say that it was 90K all Dems, only 0.03% swing. Sorry Chump, you will need to prove widespread fraud. Glad he is not an engineer.


----------



## wayneL (6 November 2020)

One county


----------



## basilio (6 November 2020)

Donald Trump spoke publicly about the election and launched a series of allegations of electoral fraud  by the Democrats to steal the election. Three major news organizations stopped filming the President because, as they said, "he was just talking lies with no evidence of any sort offered to substantiate his statements"

Shep Smith after interrupting the  Press Conference  went through the Trump allegations and fact checked each statement against reality.  















						Growing lead for Biden in Nevada and Pennsylvania – as it happened
					

Biden ahead of Trump in two key states while Georgia confirms recount – catch up with all the news as it happened




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## basilio (6 November 2020)

This is a direct link to Shep Smiths deconstruction of Donald Trumps allegations of electoral fraud.


----------



## spooly74 (6 November 2020)

Wisconsin
50K people voted down Rep ballot but not for Trump.
64K voted for Biden but not down ballot.


----------



## moXJO (6 November 2020)

wayneL said:


> I7
> 
> I think if the alleged fraud is fair dinkum, I think it most certainly would have been enough to change the election result.
> 
> ...



I hope they do find enough in the places where it was tight. But I can't see it being enough. Its definitely enough to take it to court in some states. Not enough to win. 

But yes there were fraudulent efforts that just won't be abe to be proven. Not unless someone videoed it.

Media is already turning the narrative of "democracy at risk". It will be an even tougher 4 years for him.


----------



## wayneL (6 November 2020)




----------



## satanoperca (6 November 2020)

wayneL said:


> One county




Lets say it is true, need to determine if the majority of Fraud went to which side, what happens if it is balanced.

Everyone is assuming without evidence that the Fraud is committed by Dems because Chump says so, the guy that lies every second word.

Show some balanced evidence and there might be enough to go to court, at the moment it is just another conspiracy theory and many have been suckered into it.

Chump, blames everyone and says they are criminals, but is yet to get a prosecuction, on the side, some of his mates and in the big house, unless pardoned by the Chump himself.


----------



## satanoperca (6 November 2020)

wayneL said:


>




Again, this is missing the crucial part, who did they vote for. Could be quite funny is they voted for Trump, but then again, he will just says it is fake.


----------



## satanoperca (6 November 2020)

“He’s not a war hero,” Mr Trump said of Mr McCain in 2015.

“He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured.”

Pretty tough talk for a man that never served and against one of his own. Got to love the Chump man, he could have easily one, with the following piece of advice :

Before you speak or tweak, think about what you are saying.

Bad advice, that only would work on rational, logical humans.


----------



## IFocus (6 November 2020)

Sadly none of the court actions launch so far by Trump or others will change the out come, it appears to be about discrediting the election.

Sowing deeper divisions being the objective.

So much for public service.


----------



## cynic (6 November 2020)

spooly74 said:


> ...
> Merica is on the line.



I fear that there's almost certainly a whole lot more than just 'Merica riding on this!

Presuming DJT doesn't somehow manage to pull through, those favouring election of the Democrat party will only have themselves to blame for what comes next.


----------



## moXJO (6 November 2020)

IFocus said:


> Sadly none of the court actions launch so far by Trump or others will change the out come, it appears to be about discrediting the election.
> 
> Sowing deeper divisions being the objective.
> 
> So much for public service.



The vote was split down the middle. I think the last 4 years of attacks on Trump will be paid in kind to Biden. 

The divisiveness already peaked out when Democrats called on cutting family members if they were Republicans. The Russian collusion from the last election, isn't much  different from what Trump is doing now. 

A case of play stupid games, win stupid prizes applies


----------



## basilio (6 November 2020)

Really It's crazy .. Trump is wildly claiming that the Dems have rigged this election.  He is desperately trying to undermine public confidence in the election process to what ?  Gin up 500,000 suppporters  to arm themselves and march on the White House to  "protect their President ?" 

Is that the endgame here ?
Consider the fraud BS  for a millisec.  If the Dems had in some universe managed to rig this election how come they haven't pinched the couple of Republican Senate seats they desperately need to have a workable Senate? How did the allow the House to lose seats to the Republicans ? 

Trump  is desperately digging his way to China trashing the voting system when it is quite clear there is not a sherrick of evidence for such claims. At some stage, I believe, a group of Republican Senators are going to stand and say "enough is enough"  count the Votes , accept the result and take the consequences. 

It's clear that Georgia and Pennsylvania are relentlessly turning blue. Biden will declare imminently .


----------



## DB008 (6 November 2020)

Rumours are coming out that the Department of Homeland Security marked all the ballot papers with a IR watermark and also lodged each ballot paper on the QFS blockchain, to prevent tampering and so that everyone can check it themselves (this is the beauty of Blockchain technology if you understand how it works).



_I think the official mail-in ballots that were mailed out by DHS were all water-marked. There are dots all over the pages that jump out at 640nm wavelength. (credit - perrarm2)_​












​
_From another user - credit to Landcruzer94_​​_I follow the crypto world a little bit, mainly ways to use blockchain to combat counterfeiting. In 2017/18, a company called INPI Asia developed a way to mark an item with an invisible identifier, everything from metal car parts to paper goods. This code could be linked to a blockchain to establish authenticity. There's not much info on it, but some governments have adopted it to secure their own documents. EDIT: It was the government of Jakarta that adopted this for all of their documents._​​https://www.slideshare.net/mobile/I...n-in-secured-digital-identification-101286711​​​_A better representation of how it works:_​​​__​

​_the code is transferred to the paper before the ballots are even printed._​​​_Earlier this year, USPS quietly revealed some patents in blockchain voting that took some by surprise..._​​https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...g-system-combining-mail-and-a-blockchain/amp/​​_"A separation of voter identification and votes to ensure voter anonymity is the principal feature of the solution. The votes are stored on a blockchain attested by election officials. Obviously, this patent is too late to be developed and deployed for this election."_​​_This could be the link. Why would we push SO hard for blockchain voting and not tout it just before the election? If you wanted to set the trap you wouldn't talk about it. These ballots could be blockchain voting in disguise, just not the way I thought they would be. EDIT: this actually makes the most sense. In an ideal world you'd push for a blockchain system that links you with how you vote that is tamper proof, Voter ID of the grandest scale if you will. Dems have been allergic to that forever and this is a sneaky way to integrate it._​​_Far fetched, but possible._​​


----------



## bellenuit (6 November 2020)

Georgia has just gone blue with Biden now ahead by 900 or so. Not called yet, but the trend is good for Biden with most uncounted votes from democratic orientated counties.


----------



## Knobby22 (6 November 2020)

Maybe Trump should watch The Castle.


----------



## sptrawler (6 November 2020)

Really Trump should let it go, it would put a lot of pressuee on the Democrats, to perform over the nsxt 4 years.
My guess is things will be much worse, regards employment anx balance of payment with China.
Just let them stew in their own juice IMO.


----------



## sptrawler (6 November 2020)

Appologies for the spelling in the last post, small phone, big fingers.lol


----------



## IFocus (6 November 2020)

The voter fraud thing isn't supported by any evidence just Trumps  word which is worth what?

Listening to commentary today summed it up pretty well.

Its goes like this neither of the big parties even think about it because the risks are so great, its just not on the radar.

The count trend has actually gone as predicted, Trumps behaviour has gone as he predicted, 

Interesting no one is talking about the biggest fraud, GOP gerrymander.

All Trumps behaviour (that of a tin pot dictator getting thrown out) does is embolden Americas enemies and makes them a laughing stock.

Can you imagine the reply next time another countries election is questioned by the US............ example Hahahahahaha

Trumps latest claims (remember he has already claimed victory, how did that work) are made without any evidence and no court action.


----------



## bellenuit (7 November 2020)

Biden takes lead in PA. 5.5K ahead and the trend is with him. Trump can't win without PA.


----------



## bellenuit (7 November 2020)




----------



## bellenuit (7 November 2020)




----------



## Smurf1976 (7 November 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Oh well back to business as usual, more



I’ve said the same since the beginning of his presidency - he had some very valid points but was completely the wrong man to make them.

I’m expecting that Biden will in practice adopt some of Trump’s ideas just in a very different manner in terms of his own role.


----------



## DB008 (7 November 2020)

https://www.oig.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/assets/2020-10/OIG-21-01-Oct20.pdf



.


----------



## basilio (7 November 2020)

Trump is still digging his way to China...

As the votes are counted and the reality of a lost election becomes clear and clearer Trump is still insisting he won because ... basically because he says so.  With that behaviour he is dragging the Republican Party into complicity to undermine the democratic processes of electing government. 

At this stage some Republicans are publicly disagreeing that the sort of alleged fraud is even remotely possible and that due electoral process has to be maintained despite Trumps insistence of either stopping or continuing the vote counting depending on how it suits him

Some examples of the pushback by current Republicians;

_Illinois congressman Adam Kinzinger tweeted that the president’s lying “is getting insane” and pleaded with his party to “STOP Spreading debunked misinformation”. 

 Texas congressman Will Hurd tweeted: “Every American should have his or her vote counted.”
“A sitting president undermining our political process & questioning the legality of the voices of countless Americans without evidence is not only dangerous & wrong, it undermines the very foundation this nation was built upon,” he wrote.

GOP strategist Karl Rove, who on Wednesday morning said the mass fraud that Trump is alleging “isn’t going to happen” in America.
“Some hanky-panky always goes on, and there are already reports of poll watchers in Philadelphia not being allowed to do their jobs,” Rove said. “But stealing hundreds of thousands of votes would require a conspiracy on the scale of a James Bond movie. That isn’t going to happen. Let’s repeat that: that isn’t going to happen.”

 former representative Carlos Curbelo called for “Republicans to stand up for our democracy at this hour”. _




Carlos Curbelo

@carloslcurbelo

By “illegal votes” it seems 
@potus
 is referring to votes cast by mail which disproportionately benefitted his opponent this election. Those votes are not in any way illegal. Important for all public leaders, especially Republicans, to stand up for our democracy at this hour.

_one GOP official involved in the ballot counting process has said behind closed doors that voter fraud isn’t an issue. Stuart Foster, a top state Republican official who trained ballot challengers in Michigan, told trainees just days ahead of the election that he was “confident with our election system”.

Foster can be heard making the comments in a recording of the training session leaked to the Guardian.

“I’ll get myself into trouble here. I basically made the comment like, so if fraud was so prevalent, then did the Democrats forget to do it in 2016? They just forgot to do it?” he said. “I mean, Trump … barely won. And it’s not because he didn’t win. [Democrats] just didn’t show up. Did they just forget? Fraud was so prevalent, but they just forgot to do it?”_









						Donald Trump's baseless vote fraud claim opens cracks in Republican ranks
					

While some GOP figures parrot the president’s cries of foul, several current and former elected officials are speaking out




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## basilio (7 November 2020)

Trump endgame scenarios.
If Trump continues to undermine public confidence in the US electoral process and deny the validity of the *votes cast against him* there is a strong possibility that the  Republican Party as a whole will be seen as  enabling this denial of process. There is also the scenario of a rapidly divisive breakdown in the US as Trump  encourages his supporters to "protect his Presidency". 

There may be legal challenges but every indication at the moment is these have no legs at all and the overall numbers against Trump are too big to allow any legal argument to succeed. Therefore the Republicans would face a complete humiliation in the legal system.

So perhaps it is time for Mike Pence and other staff members to tap Trump on the shoulder and tell him to stand down and allow Pence to complete the  Presidential term until inauguration.

Why ?
1) It defuses the whole political situation and averts a political bloodbath
2) It restores some measure of credibility to the Republican Party which has to continue after Trump has left. They need to play the long game
3) There can be a measured and respectful change of office which seems impossible with Donald Trump
3) It may be the only opportunity left to give Presidential pardons to people currently in trouble.

Thoughts ?


----------



## Lucky777 (7 November 2020)

It will be a military coup but you won’t hear it in the mainstream. Trump will win guaranteed. Drain the swamp.


----------



## moXJO (7 November 2020)

The problem was the media coverage, big tech suppression, mail in votes that were ballot harvested etc. Oh and zero scrutiny on Biden. Media basically passed him in. Riots and media suppression of that, or the right being blamed for them.

You can blame Trump as much as you like. But to say that Democrats have run a clean 4 years is an absolute joke. They never accepted the Trump presidency. Having only impeached him this year (during the coronavirus as an added distraction).  Prior it was constant talk of the illegitimacy of the Trump Presidency.

Not only that, but the election was way closer then anyone thought. If Democrats hadn't had coronavirus save them. They would have lost by a huge margin.

You look at guys like bas who has posted every half truth or outright bullsht story for the past four years. Not once did he retract when he was wrong. People like him were replicated in the US x 10s of millions. It became a mental illness.

Why on earth would you now think Republicans are going to roll over after 4 years of being attacked?

We all watched it happen. So on that front, don't think Biden or the Democrats will be accepted. This won't be a smooth transition.


----------



## moXJO (7 November 2020)

The one saving grace is that conservatives generally just get back to work.


----------



## Knobby22 (7 November 2020)

Lucky777 said:


> It will be a military coup but you won’t hear it in the mainstream. Trump will win guaranteed. Drain the swamp.



I think you lost your grand of cash believing this sort of stuff. 
The military and the Republicans aren't going to support a coup , secret or otherwise. Most Americans greatly respect their constitution.


----------



## bellenuit (7 November 2020)

basilio said:


> 2) It restores some measure of credibility to the Republican Party which has to continue after Trump has left. They need to play the long game




Any bastardly by the GOP could quickly backfire on them. As far as I understand it, there are two senate seats in Georgia, won by the GOP, that may involve a run-off in January. If the dems can flip these, then there will be an even number of senators from both side, with the deciding vote going to the speaker. (This is how I understand it).

Should the GOP spend the next two months acting irresponsibly and aiding Trump's ridiculous claims of fraud, they may find that those two seats will be lost.


----------



## Lucky777 (7 November 2020)

We’ll see next month then 🙂


----------



## bellenuit (7 November 2020)

*Senate Majority in Balance as Perdue Re-election Race Goes to Runoff in Georgia*

Mr. Perdue, a first-term Republican, narrowly failed to clear 50 percent of the vote, sending the race to a January runoff that, along with another runoff contest, will probably determine which party controls the Senate.









						Senate Majority in Balance as Perdue Re-election Race Goes to Runoff in Georgia (Published 2020)
					

Mr. Perdue, a first-term Republican, narrowly failed to clear 50 percent of the vote, sending the race to a January runoff that, along with another runoff contest, will probably determine which party controls the Senate.




					www.nytimes.com


----------



## wayneL (7 November 2020)

E Abrams, AOC et al now threatening retribution on Trump supporters.

And you all thought I was overstating things when I was talking about brownshirts?

Dark days ahead for the USA, my friends.


----------



## IFocus (7 November 2020)

Have there been any claims of electoral fraud from any of the senate or congress races?

Wayne surely you understand that its the institutions (heavily undermined by Trump and his sycophants)  that enforce security and the law not politicians and these are military style agency's complete with heavy weapons.

Are you saying they are going rogue?


----------



## IFocus (7 November 2020)

Just to add to the above the people you name have no power within the DNC we saw that in nominations for the Democratic nominee a centrist was chosen not ever Bernie got a look in.

You also have a VP that's an ex prosecutor that's before you get to the GOP controlled senate.


----------



## IFocus (7 November 2020)

The real danger / threat to democratic rule in the US is now manifesting itself now with the current administration fuelling anger for the sake of the incumbent not for the people.

Trump has very real problems outside of the presidency where he will lose much of his bargaining power not only against court cases waiting for him but really serious business issues around out standing loans and refinancing them.

Remember banks stopped lending to him he needs the presidency to refinance.

That's all before you get to the fact Trumps uses government to profit from his properties for income that will all go, all this in the midst of a pandemic that's rapidly increasing in the US adding to his lost making businesses.

None of the current calamity is for the benefit of people its all about Trump and his exposure.

IMHO


----------



## moXJO (7 November 2020)

IFocus said:


> The real danger / threat to democratic rule in the US is now manifesting itself now with the current administration fuelling anger for the sake of the incumbent not for the people.
> 
> Trump has very real problems outside of the presidency where he will lose much of his bargaining power not only against court cases waiting for him but really serious business issues around out standing loans and refinancing them.
> 
> ...



Where did you get this rubbish that banks stop lending to him?

And covid stopped polling. Watch it disappear from the Democrats vocabulary.

The late votes that were allowed into PA without post marks was being questioned. I'd have to look into a bit more but there are questions with:
Votes by mail received after 8pm.
Votes being delivered, opened and counted instead of being set aside as late. No way to prove they were late if set aside. And the gop watchers were set back at 25 feet or blocked altogether. This was in PA.

The big hit is the ballot harvesting that went on. 

They need a governing body similar to what Australia has. Too many corrupt state officials. This has been one of the worst election run ups and election day I've seen.


----------



## satanoperca (7 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> Where did you get this rubbish that banks stop lending to him?
> 
> And covid stopped polling. Watch it disappear from the Democrats vocabulary.
> 
> ...




NEW YORK/FRANKFURT (Reuters) - Deutsche Bank AG is looking for ways to end its relationship with President Donald Trump after the U.S. elections, as it tires of the negative publicity stemming from the ties, according to three senior bank officials with direct knowledge of the matter.


----------



## bellenuit (7 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> And covid stopped polling. Watch it disappear from the Democrats vocabulary.




BREAKING
*Mark Meadows, Trump’s Chief of Staff, Has the Coronavirus*
Mr. Meadows aided President Trump’s efforts to play down the virus throughout the summer. A second White House aide is also said to have tested positive.


----------



## moXJO (7 November 2020)

satanoperca said:


> NEW YORK/FRANKFURT (Reuters) - Deutsche Bank AG is looking for ways to end its relationship with President Donald Trump after the U.S. elections, as it tires of the negative publicity stemming from the ties, according to three senior bank officials with direct knowledge of the matter.



That's hardly to do with finances. That's activism  via sleeping giants. And I doubt anything will come of it anyway. Its not official.


----------



## moXJO (7 November 2020)

bellenuit said:


> BREAKING
> *Mark Meadows, Trump’s Chief of Staff, Has the Coronavirus*
> Mr. Meadows aided President Trump’s efforts to play down the virus throughout the summer. A second White House aide is also said to have tested positive.



It polled at 18% or less, as to its importance. It will be dropped.


----------



## moXJO (7 November 2020)

*Software 'Glitch' In Michigan Erroneously Gave 1000s Of Votes To Biden; Up To 47 Counties Compromised*




A glitch goes both ways. Not all to one candidate. 

https://www.zerohedge.com/political...ave-1000s-votes-biden-47-counties-compromised


*Meanwhile, in Oakland County, Michigan, another computer glitch was uncovered which gave an upset win to Democrat Melanie Hartman. Once it was fixed, her win was nullified and incumbent Adam Kochenderfer was declared the winner. *



So a few things need to be cleared up.


----------



## IFocus (7 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> Where did you get this rubbish that banks stop lending to him?
> 
> And covid stopped polling. Watch it disappear from the Democrats vocabulary.
> 
> ...




The issue around Trumps lending and banks has been well covered.

I seen questions repeated time and again up to the present time asking what court actions Trump can take about the vote issues.

The answers have all been the same, actions taken so far will have no bearing on the out come none, nada, zip they have been minor nit picking delaying actions and there is nothing that can be taken to the supreme court as yet, none of the accusations being made have any evidence to support them none, nada, zip if there was it would be presented to a court ASP that hasn't happened.  

Clearly Biden is winning, the polls were again well out but the shape of the vote count is playing almost to script.

Trump supporters were told to vote on the day, Democrats were told to vote by mail in due to the pandemic.

Trump has spent weeks demonising mail in ballots (falsely) setting up the current false claims.

How anyone can buy into any of this is beyond me.

You do know PV state legislature is controlled by the Republican Party. 

Georgia  is also Republican

Again nothing comes close to GOP gerrymander of boundary's ....nothing.


----------



## Lucky777 (7 November 2020)

Soon....Democrats


----------



## basilio (7 November 2020)

Murdoch  US Press  are now asking Trump to act with grace and respect for the democratic processes. 









						Rupert Murdoch-owned US outlets turn on Trump, urging him to act with 'grace'
					

Fox News, Wall Street Journal and New York Post all show stark change of tone as their former champion faces ‘presidential endgame’




					www.theguardian.com
				




Meanwhile Biden is preparing for the final vote count which he believes will give him 300 plus electoral votes.
Had a message for all Americans

In America, we hold strong views, we have strong disagreements, and that is OK," he said.

_"Strong disagreements are inevitable in a democracy. Strong disagreements are healthy. They are a sign of a vigorous debate of deeply held views, but we have to remember the purpose of our politics isn't total unrelenting warfare.

"No, the purpose of our politics, the work of the nation, isn't to fan the flames of conflict but to solve problems, to guarantee justice, to give everybody a fair shot and improve the lives of our people.

"We may be opponents but we are not enemies, we are Americans.

"No matter who you voted for, I'm certain of one thing — the vast majority of them, 150 million who voted, they want the vitriol out of our politics.








						Biden says 'it is clear' he will win US election, but Trump team says it's not over yet
					

Without formally declaring victory, Joe Biden says the numbers tell a "clear and convincing" story he will win the presidency, despite Donald Trump's team preparing legal challenges to keep the race alive.




					www.abc.net.au
				



_


----------



## basilio (7 November 2020)

It will be interesting to see how Trump responds to the message change from his normal media supporters.  He only has one opportunity to make a gracious concession speech that somehow makes him seem "Presidential"  .  He has, at the most 24-36 hours before the votes across a number of states makes it clear he has lost. 

Be interesting to see if  he decides to burn down the house or resign gracefully.  Goes back to what I said earlier about whether the Republican Party will countenance an extended legal fight on spurious grounds when the  electroral figures become so stark that there is no realistic way they can hold the Presidency short of a coup.

*And of course they have to go back to the Georgia Electorate in January and fight for the last 2 critical Senate seats*


----------



## dutchie (8 November 2020)

2000 people have already died of the China virus on Joe's watch!  Come on man!


----------



## Knobby22 (8 November 2020)

dutchie said:


> 2000 people have already died of the China virus on Joe's watch!  Come on man!



He doesn't get in till January I thought?
If say, China attacked Taiwan, not out of the bounds of possibility, would not Trump be in charge? Anyone know?
In the Aussie//UK system, the removalists would be at the Lodge/ 10 Downing Street by now.


----------



## dutchie (8 November 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> He doesn't get in till January I thought?
> If say, China attacked Taiwan, not out of the bounds of possibility, would not Trump be in charge? Anyone know?



Good point.
China will need to build more landing craft before it initiates an attack. It should be ready to do so early 2022.
The US, under Biden, will not interfere.


----------



## basilio (8 November 2020)

Joe Biden isn't President.  Donald Trump is still President of the United States  until January 20th 2021 with all the power and responsibilities that entails.


----------



## basilio (8 November 2020)

A story for the times.


----------



## basilio (8 November 2020)

Just to confirm the latest facts  re the US election.









						Biden passes electoral college milestone and will be next US president, multiple networks project
					

Democratic candidate Joe Biden will win more than the 270 electoral college votes required to become US president, according to projections by multiple networks.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## basilio (8 November 2020)

It looks Trump is going down with the ship and taking his family and most loyal friends with him.

Full bore ahead with "legal challenges" that no one with two functioning neurons or a gram of political sense would touch in a million trump lies.









						Donald Trump refuses to concede defeat as recriminations begin
					

Biden declared winner as president says ‘This is far from over’ and threatens legal challenges – but experts doubt they will succeed




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## IFocus (8 November 2020)

As Bas says Biden takes power after in the inauguration   20th of Jan 2021

In the mean time Trump will continue to create division and chaos burning scorched earth style the house down such is the big *loser* he is.

COVID will have killed 10's of thousands more unnecessarily  and they are likely to be his own supporters.

Its a shame Really.


----------



## Knobby22 (8 November 2020)

OK, I am going to call it.
Who in the family has not made a statement supporting Trump not conceeding? Who has been very careful?
Who in the family has brains?

Ivanka Trump.

She will be nominating as the Republican candidate for the next President.


----------



## basilio (8 November 2020)

IFocus said:


> As Bas says Biden takes power after in the inauguration   20th of Jan 2021
> 
> In the mean time Trump will continue to create division and chaos burning scorched earth style the house down such is the big *loser* he is.
> 
> ...




A US President with unlimited power, no scruples, no boundaries and seemingly nothing to lose could do some serious damage in 10 weeks. Reminds of Hitlers orders to destroy Germany's power, water, transportation, sanitation infrastructure in 1945 because the German people didn't support him enough. (Albert Speer took  sole responsibility for this order and quietly buried it.)
It will be interesting to see how the Republicans deal with this possibility.

I think first cab off the ranks will be  Presidential Pardons for all who deserve one. 









						Hitler’s Order to Destroy Germany
					

By early 1945, Germany was about to collapse. Hitler issued a Decree known as “Nero Decree”, by which he ordered Germany’s destruction.




					medium.com


----------



## dutchie (8 November 2020)

Trump will probably be remembered for many things.
But the most important one is that he will be the last Republican President.


----------



## moXJO (8 November 2020)

IFocus said:


> The issue around Trumps lending and banks has been well covered.
> 
> I seen questions repeated time and again up to the present time asking what court actions Trump can take about the vote issues.
> 
> ...



The bank thing was from rubbish opinions. It is not "well documented fact".

As for votes by mail. 
Dems changed voting laws in the states just prior to elections. 
Activist groups funded ballot harvesters.
Votes were collected by the thousands.



I think a lot here don't understand what exactly happened. 
Democrats ran a very intense ballot harvesting program in key areas.


----------



## dutchie (8 November 2020)

Half the USA knows that Biden is an illegitimate President.
The other half (which include leftists, MSM, social media, the bureaucracy, the swamp, globalists) can now tell the first half to get nicked.
They will be silenced, forcefully if necessary, from now on.
The sh#t has well and truly hit the fan in the USA, the West will follow.
Our freedom of speech will be one of the first things to go.


----------



## Smurf1976 (8 November 2020)

dutchie said:


> Our freedom of speech will be one of the first things to go.



I would argue that it’s effective disappearance to substantial extent has already occurred.

Compare now versus just a few years ago and it’s night versus day and to be clear, I’m referring to Australia there as well as the US and others.

If it was up to me then I’d wind the clock back a decade on that and start again.


----------



## basilio (8 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> The bank thing was from rubbish opinions. It is not "well documented fact".
> 
> As for votes by mail.
> Dems changed voting laws in the states just prior to elections.
> ...




Just wondering. How many posters on ASF   sincerely believe all these statements?  Do you then  believe that as a consequence  the US elections results should be overturned  and Trump re elected ?

Are you supporting Trump in his  assertions that "he would have won if only legal votes were counted". That in effect the US electoral system was rorted /corrupted by the Dems to get Biden elected ? Just interested.

The BBC factchecked Trumps Fridays Press conference. This is their analysis of Trumps assertions.








						US election 2020: Donald Trump's speech fact-checked
					

The president made a string of claims but provided little evidence.



					www.bbc.com


----------



## satanoperca (8 November 2020)

I will help out.

Were there fraudulent votes? YES
That doesn't mean the outcome was incorrect.
What % of votes were fraudulent? I don't know. But I suspect it was <0.5%
But let's say it was 2%, enough to effect the election.
Then you have to determine which way those fraudulent voted, Red or Blue. I suspect it would be somewhere between 30-50% either way. So did affect the outcome.
Let's not forget, Chump wanted his supporters to vote in person, which was irresponsible given Covid. Biden was responsible, don't risk you life, mail in your vote.
Let's also not forget, the flow on effect of covid from the Chump man, organising and supporting mass rallies that will see the virus spread even further, and before some dipwit makes a statement, have a look of the figures/facts of how this virus is running wild through the USA population.
Finally a statesman in office.

I will end with this, Chump man could have easily won, if he just learnt the art of war, he talks to much and produces to little.


----------



## dutchie (8 November 2020)

I am sad. Not for myself, but for my children and my grandchildren and for society at large.
I was going to respond to the last two posts and argue the points. But I realise now that is futile. (It has nothing to do with the posters)
The forces are too strong and entrenched. The swamp is too deep.
"The best country in the world" has lost its fight against self destruction. We in Australia will eventually follow.
Pessimistic I know.
We are all frogs in boiling water rushing (some gleefully) to 1984.


----------



## bellenuit (8 November 2020)

IFocus said:


> COVID will have killed 10's of thousands more unnecessarily and they are likely to be his own supporters.




It wouldn't surprise me in the least that when Trump finally concedes, he will wash his hand of COVID responsibility, as he has done up to now, and somehow try and move responsibility to Biden. A sort of "_if you think it is a problem, then you deal with it_" statement. It could put Biden in a dilemma, as he has claimed that fixing the spread will be his immediate priority, but if only nominally given responsibility without all the resources of government at his disposal, it would unlikely make any difference.


----------



## moXJO (8 November 2020)

basilio said:


> Just wondering. How many posters on ASF   sincerely believe all these statements?  Do you then  believe that as a consequence  the US elections results should be overturned  and Trump re elected ?
> 
> Are you supporting Trump in his  assertions that "he would have won if only legal votes were counted". That in effect the US electoral system was rorted /corrupted by the Dems to get Biden elected ? Just interested.
> 
> ...



Understand what ballot harvesting is first. This election was unlike any other due to mail in. 

You are alluding that this election was same as always. It wasn't. I am in no way saying Trump should overturn the vote unless legal. I simply don't think he will have the numbers regardless.

The other thing that you are all mistaken on is thinking I am calling outright voting fraud. Thats not the case. While a lot of dodgy crap went on, it doesn't have the numbers to save Trump.

Im saying this was parcelled and wrapped the moment postal votes were sent to everyone. Thats where it was lost and won. 

In Georgia people like stacy abrams and her organisation had a huge effect.

Bas you have been posting baseless crap going on since Trump won. Also with extremely light on detail main stream media links that post half truths. 

As for COVID-19 its over. Lockdowns and all....


----------



## bellenuit (8 November 2020)

I suspect that like the Tucker Carlson "lost in the post" excuse, Trump, not having any credible evidence of election fraud, will back down from the court challenges where he would have to produce such evidence and declare that even though he has overwhelming evidence of fraud, for the good of the country he will accept the results.


----------



## Smurf1976 (8 November 2020)

dutchie said:


> "The best country in the world" has lost its fight against self destruction. We in Australia will eventually follow.



I don’t disagree but I also don’t see what it has to do with the election?

It’s not as though either Biden or Trump proposed to actually stop the rot. One’s a statesman-like figure focused elsewhere, the other’s an entertainer and businessman of sorts.


----------



## dutchie (8 November 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> I don’t disagree but I also don’t see what it has to do with the election?
> 
> It’s not as though either Biden or Trump proposed to actually stop the rot. One’s a statesman-like figure focused elsewhere, the other’s an entertainer and businessman of sorts.



You are right, it is not really about the election itself, other than the Democrats (some of them anyway) will be the autocrats when the USA becomes totalitarian.

The rot started well and truly before Trump (probably back to the late 60's). Trump was a temporary speed bump but now it is full steam ahead.


----------



## sptrawler (8 November 2020)

I'm just looking forward to Joe, wrapping the thread up, time to move on. Lol


----------



## SirRumpole (8 November 2020)

basilio said:


> Just wondering. How many posters on ASF   sincerely believe all these statements?  Do you then  believe that as a consequence  the US elections results should be overturned  and Trump re elected ?
> 
> Are you supporting Trump in his  assertions that "he would have won if only legal votes were counted". That in effect the US electoral system was rorted /corrupted by the Dems to get Biden elected ? Just interested.
> 
> ...




The way I see it is, regardless of the merits of the US voting system, if it was good enough to put Trump into power, it is good enough to put him out.

End of story.


----------



## dutchie (8 November 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I'm just looking forward to Joe, wrapping the thread up, time to move on. Lol



I'll second the motion. LOL


----------



## moXJO (8 November 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I'm just looking forward to Joe, wrapping the thread up, time to move on. Lol



Yes. 
Its time for victory memes people. 

Biden has it. Its gloating rights and moving on.


----------



## SirRumpole (8 November 2020)

Let's just hope Trump doesn't nuke the world before he goes...


----------



## moXJO (8 November 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> The way I see it is, regardless of the merits of the US voting system, if it was good enough to put Trump into power, it is good enough to put him out.
> 
> End of story.



This is the point that everyone misses. It was completely different from every other election ever. Because  of the mail in expansion. And it is not the same as absentee votes. 

But anyway. Its the era of screw the details. Let's leave it at that.


----------



## SirRumpole (8 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> This is the point that everyone misses. It was completely different from every other election ever. Because  of the mail in expansion. And it is not the same as absentee votes.
> 
> But anyway. Its the era of screw the details. Let's leave it at that.




If people are entitled by law to vote by mail, what's wrong with that ?

Better than standing in a line all day getting covid.


----------



## dutchie (8 November 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Let's just hope Trump doesn't nuke the world before he goes...



That's a pretty stupid statement.


----------



## moXJO (8 November 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> If people are entitled by law to vote by mail, what's wrong with that ?



Ballot harvesting. And to be honest,  its the Republicans fault for not preparing better. Unfortunately they were out gunned by well funded lefty orgs. Doesn't matter in entrenched states only in the narrow margin states. And its why dems were a sure thing. 

It was a huge effort by both sides. Most votes for a sitting president and most for someone running (Biden).


----------



## wayneL (8 November 2020)

Just as a general note, not one college vote has yet been cast. There is a lot going on behind the scenes and lots could happen before then.

So as Rickards has pointed out here,nothing is over until then.

PS Damn I hate autocorrect


----------



## IFocus (8 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> Ballot harvesting. And to be honest,  its the Republicans fault for not preparing better. Unfortunately they were out gunned by well funded lefty orgs. Doesn't matter in entrenched states only in the narrow margin states. And its why dems were a sure thing.
> 
> It was a huge effort by both sides. Most votes for a sitting president and most for someone running (Biden).





There are laws limiting ballot collections around the ballot thing I think only 14 states don't have any


Note the Republicans have stated publicly they would do as much as they could as well its open to both sides.

" The California GOP has trained more than 16,000 volunteers as "neighborhood team leaders" and tasked them with winning the trust of local communities. " 


Noticed Trump son heroically urging his father to start a  war and fighting to the death.

Maybe he hadn't heard about the bone spur problem.


----------



## IFocus (8 November 2020)

What happen to the laptop?


----------



## Smurf1976 (8 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> its the Republicans fault for not preparing better. Unfortunately they were out gunned by well funded lefty orgs.



Sociopathic narcissists always sink their own ship for the simple reason that a fundamental behavioural trait is to remove anyone competent and replace them with a yes man.

Having done so, the smart ones quickly move on before the inevitable occurs. Those who stick around end up with a disaster.

Those with a long term approach to investing would be well advised to learn to spot such people and steer clear of anything they’re in charge of.


----------



## Lucky777 (8 November 2020)

If anyone is actually interested in the actual LEGAL proceedings that are going on in America, here’s a good breakdown of that. From a non-sensationalist person speaking Steve Turley. Trump’s legal team have recently held the law that any MAIL-IN ballots after Election DAY 8pm are invalid in the court of law. LEGAL votes will ONLY be counted.


----------



## IFocus (8 November 2020)

*Steve Turley* is an internationally recognized scholar, speaker, and classical guitarist. He is a *conservative**. *

“I want to argue that we are actually seeing nothing less than a conservative Christian resurgence in our demographics and politics that promises not suicide but rather the salvation of the West.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (8 November 2020)

Lucky777 said:


> If anyone is actually interested in the actual LEGAL proceedings that are going on in America, here’s a good breakdown of that. From a non-sensationalist person speaking Steve Turley. Trump’s legal team have recently held the law that any MAIL-IN ballots after Election DAY 8pm are invalid in the court of law. LEGAL votes will ONLY be counted.




I'm not saying this is bs but your post makes no sense grammatically nor is it comprehensible in any way. Could you rephrase it (in English) and leave the capitalised words in lower case. It distracts from interpretation. 

Further the first 50 secs of this fellow's vid is typical crass American rubbish and I do not have sufficient 50 secs left in my life to watch through another 47 minutes and 44 seconds. 

And perhaps give a synopsis for those of us who are busy people and arranging our trades for tomorrow. 

gg


----------



## Knobby22 (8 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> Yes.
> Its time for victory memes people.
> 
> Biden has it. Its gloating rights and moving on.



You asked for it.This one made me laugh regarding getting four seasons landscaping mixed up with the hotel.
Wouldn't surprise me if a staffers deliberately did it to stuff up Rudy G.


----------



## SirRumpole (8 November 2020)

Lucky777 said:


> If anyone is actually interested in the actual LEGAL proceedings that are going on in America, here’s a good breakdown of that. From a non-sensationalist person speaking Steve Turley. Trump’s legal team have recently held the law that any MAIL-IN ballots after Election DAY 8pm are invalid in the court of law. LEGAL votes will ONLY be counted.





I don't think so. As long as they are postmarked on or before election day they are valid.


----------



## Knobby22 (8 November 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> You asked for it.This one made me laugh regarding getting four seasons landscaping mixed up with the hotel.
> Wouldn't surprise me if a staffers deliberately did it to stuff up Rudy G.
> View attachment 114336


----------



## Lucky777 (8 November 2020)

IFocus said:


> *Steve Turley* is an internationally recognized scholar, speaker, and classical guitarist. He is a *conservative**. *
> 
> “I want to argue that we are actually seeing nothing less than a conservative Christian resurgence in our demographics and politics that promises not suicide but rather the salvation of the West.



Yes majority of conservatives have voted for Trump



Garpal Gumnut said:


> I'm not saying this is bs but your post makes no sense grammatically nor is it comprehensible in any way. Could you rephrase it (in English) and leave the capitalised words in lower case. It distracts from interpretation.
> 
> Further the first 50 secs of this fellow's vid is typical crass American rubbish and I do not have sufficient 50 secs left in my life to watch through another 47 minutes and 44 seconds.
> 
> ...




Get your glasses out buddy



SirRumpole said:


> I don't think so. As long as they are postmarked on or before election day they are valid.




Yes postmarked on or before are valid. Mail in ballots after are not valid, which is what Pennsylvania is doing.


----------



## wayneL (8 November 2020)

Memes huh?


----------



## basilio (8 November 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> I don't think so. As long as they are postmarked on or before election day they are valid.




That's it. End of story.  Some states allow a few days for late mail to come in.  From my understanding the vast majority of  mail ins arrived before election day becasue people wanted to make sure they get in.  After all Trump was already trying to nobble the US Post Office.

The Repubs were trying to argue that votes received  after the election *even if they had been mailed before hand *should be excluded. In fact any votes that came in this form were counted but also identified and put aside - just in case they would be deemed invalid.

However even excluding these votes has to have the premise that they would have affected the outcome.  If 4000  arrived late but the final winning margin is 40,000 votes then clearly  these votes do not impact on the final result.

I have no idea where Lucky is getting info that Pennsylvania has late votes that were not postmarked early. Perhaps they do. So exactly how many are there ?  We can be very confident that the Republican scrutineers  would be on such votes in a  flash. Dems as well I reckon. But  I cannot see any way such votes getting past the checkers in the first place - and certainly not 20,000 plus. At last count  Biden was 41,000 votes ahead and still pulling away. (there is a possibility that overseas late arriving votes could swing back to Trump. But the lead is now so big that has been deemed impossible.)

All properly made votes received on the day or before hand are valid and must be counted.   The only way I can see a case being made is to somehow "invalidate"  hundreds of thousands of Biden votes across 3-4  states to enable the final figures to show a Trump "victory". Good luck with that.









						Supreme Court orders separate count of late-arriving Pa. ballots
					

The Supreme Court on Friday ordered Pennsylvania election boards to separately count mail ballots that arrived after Election Day, while rejecting a GOP request to stop counting those votes.




					thehill.com


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (8 November 2020)

I presume that you are an American by your syntax, and I am wearing my spectacles.



Lucky777 said:


> Get your glasses out buddy





I repeat, as I find some of your countrymen are better at shouting and engaging in sesquipedalian sentences with small meaning, by asking you to summarise the argument of the fat gentleman with the large mug of "americano" which you attached to your meaningless post.

gg



Lucky777 said:


> If anyone is actually interested in the actual LEGAL proceedings that are going on in America, here’s a good breakdown of that. From a non-sensationalist person speaking Steve Turley. Trump’s legal team have recently held the law that any MAIL-IN ballots after Election DAY 8pm are invalid in the court of law. LEGAL votes will ONLY be counted.


----------



## satanoperca (8 November 2020)

Lucky777 said:


> Yes postmarked on or before are valid. Mail in ballots after are not valid, which is what Pennsylvania is doing.




Did you read what you wrote, and yes I have my glasses on.

Did you go to Chump University?


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (8 November 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Did you read what you wrote, and yes I have my glasses on.
> 
> Did you go to Chump University?



Thank you @satanoperca

@Lucky777 . It is incumbent on you to clarify your original post using Australian English and proper sentences, and to summarise what appear to you as Biblical statements from the Mount made by the fat man with the large mug of "americano" in a vid which goes for over 48 minutes. 

People are busy. We value your thought.

This thread is read by many worldwide and your pearls are appreciated. 

gg


----------



## Lucky777 (8 November 2020)

Legislature in Pennsylvania states that votes must come in before or on November 3rd which is Election Day in the United States.
Mail in ballots are accepted with the post mark of November 3. All votes are to be counted, we can agree on that.
Pennsylvania courts(State Court) has recently amended that mail in ballots are to be accepted after Election Day November 3 and to extend it for an additional 3 days. This is in violation of the American constitution and the Supreme Court has ruled that only ballots are to be counted on Election Day. If you studied a bit of law this would make sense to you hopefully.

And I don’t see why you are attacking me, I am stating facts. Read a law book and open your mind. Also I am Australian and live in Melbourne. Any other antagonising attacks and big words to be used?


----------



## moXJO (8 November 2020)

Constitutional law can sort out the election. 
To see if we get "Trump II Donnies revenge".

For now its goodbye sweet, bestest ever president. Thanks for giving the left mental illness for the past 4 years.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (8 November 2020)

Lucky777 said:


> Legislature in Pennsylvania states that votes must come in before or on November 3rd which is Election Day in the United States.
> Mail in ballots are accepted with the post mark of November 3. All votes are to be counted, we can agree on that.
> Pennsylvania courts(State Court) has recently amended that mail in ballots are to be accepted after Election Day November 3 and to extend it for an additional 3 days. This is in violation of the American constitution and the Supreme Court has ruled that only ballots are to be counted on Election Day. If you studied a bit of law this would make sense to you hopefully.
> 
> And I don’t see why you are attacking me, I am stating facts. Read a law book and open your mind. Also I am Australian and live in Melbourne. Any other antagonising attacks and big words to be used?



No more antagonising attacks if there ever were. I speak and write English, it is not a gift, try it when making a shouty attack and posting a vid by some unknown called Turley. 

In legal contests what seem like apparent facts are decided after argument by a judge. Your comments are opinion. Higher courts can become involved if either litigant is unhappy with the lower court's decision.

I have no problems with the Orange Fool mounting legal challenges to the election particularly in Pennsylvania where as a youth I partook in some shenanigans with the Democratic Party in that Commonwealth. I equally took part with some Republicans in similar sport in Atlanta, Ga. They were all good people and friends. Unlike many on this forum I have no allegiances except to the good of myself, my family, Queensland and Australia as I see it. 

Winners are grinners.

You should try it. I trust "shenanigans" is not too big a word. By the way, is said Turley any relation to the Turleys of Boulia who used have a cafe there in the 1970's?

gg


----------



## Lucky777 (8 November 2020)

Garpal Gurmut confirmed sleepy Biden agent


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (8 November 2020)

Lucky777 said:


> Garpal Gurmut confirmed sleepy Biden agent
> 
> View attachment 114346



You again. 

gg


----------



## Smurf1976 (8 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> Thanks for giving the left mental illness for the past 4 years.



Trouble is, sociopaths really do spread mental health problems to their victims.

There’s really only one type of person who does well under the likes of Trump - mercenaries.

Those mercenaries will of course have jumped 100% into the Biden camp the moment they concluded he was going to win. Trump hats and shirts in the bin, Biden hats and shirts on and yes Sir of course we were on your side all along......

The one thing people like Trump don’t have is the loyalty of anyone competent. 

Once Biden’s officially in Office, Trump will become irrelevant real quick for that reason. Even those he thinks are friends will be merely associates in practice.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (8 November 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Trouble is, sociopaths really do spread mental health problems to their victims.
> 
> There’s really only one type of person who does well under the likes of Trump - mercenaries.
> 
> ...



Very good points.

Another problem is that the election was very close. 

Further, Democrats rallied and voted anti-Trump, with which I agree. However the present day Democratic Party is by no means united on many contentious policy issues let alone ready to deal with a non-compliant Congress. 

gg


----------



## ghotib (9 November 2020)

Totally, completely, wholly, and utterly off topic: 
Dear Mr Gumnut,


Garpal Gumnut said:


> ... and engaging in sesquipedalian sentences with small meaning,



My thanks for your use of the word "sesquipedalian". The only other use I remember encountering is in a limerick invented by Dorothy L. Sayers for her novel Murder Must Advertise. I first read this some 35 years ago and have read it several times since then, but the word stuck in my mind and still provides a chuckle. It's a pleasure to meet it again in such a different context.


----------



## moXJO (9 November 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Trouble is, sociopaths really do spread mental health problems to their victims.
> 
> There’s really only one type of person who does well under the likes of Trump - mercenaries.
> 
> ...




4 years of attacks on trump and anyone around, supporting, or even leaning that way. 

The greater threat is we have a large group that simply are groupthink sociopaths. There was an absolute hatred of trump. 

I'm sorry but the amount of bs that was posted on here could fill a football stadium. And the weird thing is Biden was an actual racist prior and Trump was regularly in black rapper videos prior. Biden is just as knee deep in sht as Trump. Yet people would rather the safety of a mask. A wolf in sheeps clothing to feel good about the choice they made. 

Also being oblivious to the games played on one side. 



 And Russian collusion, I didn't hear a pip coming out of anyone when Obama and Biden let Russia stroll into Ukraine. Not to mention supporting Iran who is backed once again by?

The absolute hypocrisy of it all was the disturbing thing to me. All throughout. But the way people latched onto the hatred was the real problem. Not Trump.


----------



## moXJO (9 November 2020)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Very good points.
> 
> Another problem is that the election was very close.
> 
> ...



The Democrat party is similar to the position  labor is in. They need to figure out who they are and what they represent. This election was not the shoe in I thought it was.


----------



## moXJO (9 November 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Once Biden’s officially in Office, Trump will become irrelevant real quick for that reason. Even those he thinks are friends will be merely associates in practice.



Its the base he leaves behind that is important. Never did a president pull that many together. Republicans need to utilise that and shape it if they want to stay in the race. The Latino vote needs to be nursed after the surprise showing.


----------



## Smurf1976 (9 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> The greater threat is we have a large group that simply are groupthink sociopaths. There was an absolute hatred of trump.



My view if Trump is based on prior personal experience with a remarkably similar individual many years ago.

That was my assessment of him when he became President and nothing he did during the following years surprised me in the slightest. It’s all classic behaviour straight from the textbook.

Such people will always remove anyone more competent, at anything, than themselves and are extremely “trigger happy” when it comes to legal action. 

Looking at Trump and comparing to personal experience it’s akin to listening to a band of professional musicians covering a well known song with the aim of precisely replicating the original artist in every way. There’ll be minor imperfections but it’s damn close.

Anyone else who’s seen it previously will likewise have immediately spotted it with Trump. As with most things, once you’ve seen one good example and understand what it is, it’s pretty easy to identify others you encounter.

The biggest legacy of such people is always the same. They purge out competency.

Some will go of their own accord, some will be sacked, some will stay as such but they become clock watching employees who couldn’t give a damn. Those who are competent will have retired, been sacked, gone to work in the private sector or simply given up by now.

The problem isn’t unique to politics. It sure wouldn’t be the first time a large listed company cost shareholders a fortune by going down the same track.


----------



## SirRumpole (9 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> The Democrat party is similar to the position  labor is in. They need to figure out who they are and what they represent. This election was not the shoe in I thought it was.




You got that right.

Middle class workers afraid of globalisation should be the focus of any centre/left party. Trump spoke to them and Labor ignored them in the last election.

If some of Trump's policies were expounded by someone of a less arrogant and divisive personality in the Republican Party, I reckon they would have won.

It was Trump that lost the election, but he could rightly claim that it was him who won in 2016.

From a global point of view, US isolationism under Trump was bad for the world, and ultimately bad for the US. China is catching up fast economically and militarily and it will need a combined action by democracies to slow them down. I think Biden realises that and will mend ties with allies ASAP.


----------



## dutchie (9 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> 4 years of attacks on trump and anyone around, supporting, or even leaning that way.
> 
> *The greater threat is we have a large group that simply are groupthink sociopaths. There was an absolute hatred of trump.*
> 
> ...



This sums up the last four years pretty well.


----------



## dutchie (9 November 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> I think Biden realises that



No, I am sorry, but Biden does not realise what he had for breakfast.


----------



## SirRumpole (9 November 2020)

dutchie said:


> No, I am sorry, but Biden does not realise what he had for breakfast.




Give it up.

You lost.

Get over it.


----------



## dutchie (9 November 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Give it up.
> 
> You lost.
> 
> Get over it.



We all lost.  Some of you don't know it yet.


----------



## wayneL (9 November 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Give it up.
> 
> You lost.
> 
> Get over it.



Dems never got over the Trump win though, Horace.

And with several court cases going, it ain't over till the fat lady sings.

It looks like Blockchain technology may even have a role in sorting this out...


----------



## basilio (9 November 2020)

Lucky777 said:


> Legislature in Pennsylvania states that votes must come in before or on November 3rd which is Election Day in the United States.
> Mail in ballots are accepted with the post mark of November 3. All votes are to be counted, we can agree on that.
> Pennsylvania courts(State Court) has recently amended that mail in ballots are to be accepted after Election Day November 3 and to extend it for an additional 3 days. Pennsylvania courts(State Court) has recently amended that mail in ballots are to be accepted after Election Day November 3 and to extend it for an additional 3 days.




At the risk of repeating what has been understood and is current practice.

_Legislature in Pennsylvania states that votes must come in before or on November 3rd which is Election Day in the United States.
*Mail in ballots are accepted with the post mark of November 3 (*_*and prior*_*) *. All votes are to be counted, we can agree on that._

Yes clear and straightforward_.

Pennsylvania courts(State Court) has recently amended that mail in ballots are to be accepted after Election Day November 3 and to extend it for an additional 3 days._
This change is made to reflect the reality that for  many reasons votes duly made and posted before the election *as demonstrated by the pre Nov 3rd postmark are valid votes and  should be counted*.  The State Legislature thought that  votes received for up to 3 days should be allowed as long as they were postmarked prior to the election. The acceptance of late votes for US elections is already accepted as practice from O/S citizens and military personal who already use mail in  ballots.  Mail delays are not unusual and this procedure ensures a reasonable flexibility of procedure.

There is no evidence that mail in votes postmarked after Nov 3rd have been counted. There is no evidence that even late arriving votes with Pre Nov 3rd postmarks* will make any difference to the final result. *The current Biden lead is 40k plus . Late votes might be 4K. in total. 

This argument won't get past the clerk. The only reason this is being run is to give some Trump supporters a reason to discredit the election process. It has minimal legal validity and no practical validity.


----------



## basilio (9 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> Thanks for giving the left mental illness for the past 4 years.




Trump  has also done an exceptional job at creating 40 million plus people who believe  anything, everything and only what he says. Many are sacrificing their lives in their thousands as they congregate at rallies, shout their support and spread COVID with gay abandon  (which Trump has made clear is not a big deal) And this legacy will continue for at least the next 10 weeks and God knows how it will  be slowed down when Biden is inaugurated.

We can all agree that is a remarkable brain washing achievement.

(In the last  two weeks the US COVID infection rate has effectively doubled from 60k to 130k . Many/most are in the midwest states.)











__





						US Covid infection figures - Google Search
					





					www.google.com


----------



## PZ99 (9 November 2020)

This would have to be the first time the US has had three presidents at the same time ?

The one who won the election
The one who thinks he won the election
The one controlling the one who won the election


----------



## Smurf1976 (9 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> The Democrat party is similar to the position labor is in. They need to figure out who they are and what they represent.



The popularity of Trump can be explained pretty simply - the middle class are looking for someone, anyone, who’ll represent them.

Same exists in Australia and I’ll go a step further and note that this broad circumstance goes a long way to explaining why politics keeps cropping up everywhere including on this forum. There’s an awful lot of people, the middle class, desperate to be heard.

Fix that underlying issue and the rest goes away.


----------



## IFocus (9 November 2020)

Trump is a nationalist populist who has and still is acting like an old style Latin / African / 3rd world  dictator.

Its really a fascial comedy act entirely promoted and predicted by Trump and his family.

Its over Trumps a loser Biden will become president.

Not only will Biden win but Australia wins too, you could the champagne corks popping through all Australia security agency's


----------



## basilio (9 November 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> The popularity of Trump can be explained pretty simply - the middle class are looking for someone, anyone, who’ll represent them.
> 
> Same exists in Australia and I’ll go a step further and note that this broad circumstance goes a long way to explaining why politics keeps cropping up everywhere including on this forum. There’s an awful lot of people, the middle class, desperate to be heard.
> 
> Fix that underlying issue and the rest goes away.




Bang on. The think one could include working class in that group. Workers who have lost their jobs and whole industries, people on minimum  wages working 2-3 jobs to survive. There is huge pain in the US. The wealth disparity has become so grotesque it is creating an untenable situation.














						Decades of rising economic inequality in the U.S.: Testimony before the U.S. House of Representatives Ways and Means Committee
					

On March 27, 2019, EPI Senior Economist Elise Gould testified before the U.S. House Ways and Means Committee, for a hearing on “The 2017 Tax Law and Who It Left Behind.” Chairman Neal, Ranking Member Brady, and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today on rising...




					www.epi.org


----------



## IFocus (9 November 2020)

Where is the laptop, where has it gone, where are the lost documents?

Most states in contention are Republican held in some form or other that includes Pennsylvania.

They all have different laws regarding mail in ballots (FFS California, Democrat, accepts them 17 days after) 

They all have observers from both parties and international observers.

Is anyone here saying they rigged the election for Biden?


----------



## moXJO (9 November 2020)

IFocus said:


> Not only will Biden win but Australia wins too, you could the champagne corks popping through all Australia security agency's



I wouldn't talk so fast. Biden and Obama let the Chinese push into the south China sea. I'm not sure second best of one of the weakest leaderships is going to cut it. In saying that I didn't think Trump would be much better for Australia's position.


----------



## moXJO (9 November 2020)

IFocus said:


> Where is the laptop, where has it gone, where are the lost documents?
> 
> Most states in contention are Republican held in some form or other that includes Pennsylvania.
> 
> ...



Once again absentee or mail ins are different things


----------



## sptrawler (9 November 2020)

basilio said:


> Bang on. The think one could include working class in that group.



It wasn't that long ago, that the working class, was part of the middle class.


----------



## moXJO (9 November 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> My view if Trump is based on prior personal experience with a remarkably similar individual many years ago.
> 
> That was my assessment of him when he became President and nothing he did during the following years surprised me in the slightest. It’s all classic behaviour straight from the textbook.
> 
> ...



Take out the relentless media and Democrat attacks and where did it stand?

We have had 4 years of propaganda to make everything seem like the end of the world.

Meanwhile no new wars. Got troops out of middle East. Attempting peace with NK. Middle East peace agreement. Finally called put China.
Actually addressed some workers and poc issues.
I didn't care who did it but he got the ball rolling.  Trump is a control freak granted. But it opened up a lot of what politicians should have been doing. And if it took a sociopath to do it, then something has gone very wrong with politics overall.


----------



## Lucky777 (9 November 2020)

Fact: Media does not call elections.


----------



## Linus van Pelt (9 November 2020)

Garpal Gumnut said:


> Very good points.
> 
> Another problem is that the election was very close.
> 
> ...




The below article popped up in my Google feed.  I think it's a good read, and follows on from GG's comments above.  Of course, it is just one author's opinion, so you may disagree with it.  But it did give me pause for thought.

I've made no secret that I think Trump was unfit to be President, although I acknowledge the opposing viewpoints in this thread - some expressed more cogently than others.

While I am glad Biden won or, more accurately, that Trump lost, this is by no means the end of all things ailing the US, as alluded to in this article.  

I'm sure I will disagree with some of Biden's (or Harris's) policies, but if he can assist in transforming the Divided States of America back to the United States of America, I think that would be a big step in the right direction.  Perhaps just wishful thinking.

I guess we'll see in 4 (or more) years whether the United States has become the United Socialist States of America, as so many seem to fear.

Hopefully both parties will present and the American people will choose better candidates in 2024 than have been available in 2016 and 2020.  Until then, it is what it is.

P.S.:  I think I've got politics fatigue, and will likely unsubscribe from this thread and close down Facebook for a good while 😁









						US on the brink of four-year war
					

The battle might be over for Joe Biden but the war has only just begun. Now the struggle to save the soul of America rests in the hands of a man who struggles t




					theworldnews.net


----------



## Lucky777 (9 November 2020)

Another socialist confirmed


----------



## moXJO (9 November 2020)

basilio said:


> Trump  has also done an exceptional job at creating 40 million plus people who believe  anything, everything and only what he says.



I think the constant media attacks have created a siege mentality in conservatives. Trump was just a unifier.


Idiotic statements from dumbshts like this have made it plain and clear. The problem has been that the left swallowed more and more extremist statements. Which in turn pushes the right more.

You look at things like vegans, environment, social issues and in every case group activism is turning violent and the opposition is labelled nazis. It all seemed to stem from environmental at first. The template was then copied over to the rest.


----------



## satanoperca (9 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> Take out the relentless media and Democrat attacks and where did it stand?
> 
> We have had 4 years of propaganda to make everything seem like the end of the world.
> 
> ...




Sounds all good, except for *238,000 deaths* from mismanagement by Chump.

He didn't need to start wars abroad, he just created one at home.


----------



## IFocus (9 November 2020)

Hang on Mo Trump kept claiming Obama was born in Kenya and was a Muslim.

It is typical of his time in power, how do keep the position Trump was hard done by in the media?

Are you saying they shouldn't call out his 10,000 to 20,000 untruths?

Should they have been more like FOX (who have called the election for Biden) and just be cringe worthy sycophants?


----------



## IFocus (9 November 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Sounds all good, except for *238,000 deaths* from mismanagement by Chump.
> 
> He didn't need to start wars abroad, he just created one at home.





Good to see Trump playing golf while no cohesive  plan for COVID exists.


----------



## satanoperca (9 November 2020)

Don't wish this was a stock you had a position in?


----------



## dutchie (9 November 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Sounds all good, except for *238,000 deaths* from mismanagement by Chump.
> 
> He didn't need to start wars abroad, he just created one at home.



I think you just proved moXJO's point.


----------



## IFocus (9 November 2020)

Linus van Pelt said:


> The below article popped up in my Google feed.  I think it's a good read, and follows on from GG's comments above.  Of course, it is just one author's opinion, so you may disagree with it.  But it did give me pause for thought.
> 
> I've made no secret that I think Trump was unfit to be President, although I acknowledge the opposing viewpoints in this thread - some expressed more cogently than others.
> 
> ...





That's not a bad effort from  Joe Hildebrand, I think Stan Grant has written some excellent articles some content I see Joe used in his article.

The issue is how will the Republicans tap into to the 70mil who voted for Trump.

And I think they were voting for Trump not the GOP.

Also note (Joe didn't cover) the current actions are not about winning the election that has clearly gone to Biden but running the case that Biden's election is illegitimate.

We can all look forward to 4 years of GOP senate obstruction and claims Biden stole the election.

Final note the United States have never been united (maybe WWII) its always been divided and will continue to be so. I don't recall any President that used this fact and fed division so aggressively as Trump.

Of course Newt Gingrich started the rot in the modern era which led to the Tea Party and allowed extreme voices to be admitted to the main stream but lacked unity  but Trump really has the amazing talent for bringing those forces together.

Sadly the richest nation in the worlds history will still have people living on the streets begging and large numbers without access to health care or opportunity.


----------



## satanoperca (9 November 2020)

dutchie said:


> I think you just proved moXJO's point.



What wars did Chump man end exactly, not ones he claimed to have ended, real evidence.





__





						List of wars: 2003–present - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## moXJO (9 November 2020)

Just to be clear everyone here would be centre with a slight lean left or right.
I actually agree with bas on a lot of points and admire his tenacity on a lot of subjects.
He doesn't give up on issues. Reminds me a lot of Trump (Who as you know is my favourite thing).

Environmental issues are real to me.
Social issues.
World issues
But the difference is the way we approach the problem. My view is that a lot of solutions applied is tokenistic rubbish.

Trump was not the be all and end all. He was the guy that kicked the ball rolling and didn't submit easily to negative press. He was needed. Politicians can't continue to sit on the fence. Especially in world affairs at the moment.

My main complaint with the Obama administration


satanoperca said:


> Sounds all good, except for *238,000 deaths* from mismanagement by Chump.
> 
> He didn't need to start wars abroad, he just created one at home.



.0what of the population?


----------



## moXJO (9 November 2020)

IFocus said:


> Hang on Mo Trump kept claiming Obama was born in Kenya and was a Muslim.
> 
> It is typical of his time in power, how do keep the position Trump was hard done by in the media?
> 
> ...



Im sorry did you call out Bidens endless lies ?

Trump was an overstater. Media often twisted a lot of what he said. And he also straight out said his opinion which was often not based on fact. 

So if the media is the bastion of truth where were they critical of Biden? Because it was one way traffic. 
Here's a few the media perpetrated:
Trump never denounced white supremacists.
The very fine people statement.
Russian collusion.
Be bloody consistent and objective. Thats not what journalists did though was it. It wasn't impartial at all. If anything journalists can't tell "wrong" news at the risk of being ostracised. Which is exactly what happened at the NYT.


So by the statement the media perpetrated thousands of lies across the globe to sway opinion.
One group of lies from a loud mouth. The other from organisations with an agenda.

Yeah sounds legit.


----------



## basilio (9 November 2020)

Too good to miss. Mitt Romney on Trumps Last Stand 

Speaking to NBC’s Meet the Press, Romney referred to Biden as “president-elect”, something other Republicans have avoided. But he said he was not even going to try to talk Trump down from his insistence that he won the election.

*“You’re not going to change the nature of President Trump in these last days, apparently, of his presidency. He is who he is and he has a relatively relaxed relationship with the truth, and so he’s going to keep on fighting until the very end.”*

However, Romney acknowledged the harm the president’s obduracy was doing.

“Look, I know the eyes of the world are on us. The eyes of our own people are on the institutions that we have. The eyes of history are on us,” the Utah senator said.









						Republicans back Trump challenge to Biden election victory
					

President refuses to concede defeat to Joe Biden as Republican allies rally behind him




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## moXJO (9 November 2020)

basilio said:


> Too good to miss. Mitt Romney on Trumps Last Stand
> 
> Speaking to NBC’s Meet the Press, Romney referred to Biden as “president-elect”, something other Republicans have avoided. But he said he was not even going to try to talk Trump down from his insistence that he won the election.
> 
> ...



I think the statement "*You’re not going to change the nature of President Trump in these last days" *is absolutely true. 

This is nothing Al gore hasn't done. If anything it is the most American tradition. You don't just lay down and die if you believe an injustice has been done. However once the courts decide, you better pack your sht and leave.


----------



## satanoperca (9 November 2020)

Mo,

238K is deaths, are still absolute and not relative, he mismanaged the crisis from day one.

If you don't believe this is relevant, go and talk to all the family members of those that have died.

As for %, I agree, but that is irrelevant, it could have been significantly reduced.

I for one, still believe that Chump got played by China on this subject. He was just the dumb sucker who took the bait and in this case ignore it.


----------



## moXJO (9 November 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Mo,
> 
> 238K is deaths, are still absolute and not relative, he mismanaged the crisis from day one.
> 
> ...



Again, the main bulk began in the Democrat states. He went above and beyond to provide help to NYC who greatly exaggerated how many ventilators they needed. And it was 10s of thousands surplus. NYC stuffed up big time.

 Talks with a US company provided extra ventilators.

Trump did shut down US borders at the start from China except US citizens.

China exported this to the world for whatever reason. 

Trump could not get cohesive strategy because the divisiveness between Republican and Democrats. 

That's off the top of my head.

I don't think he did a good job. I don't think Dan andrews or many others did a good job either. 
But they didn't have to fight media and states every step of the way.

But the numbers are low compared to population. US has some real poverty. I'm surprised it wasn't more considering the freedom they still have from lockdowns.


----------



## moXJO (9 November 2020)

Oh and he was being impeached at the time over a farcical allegation.


----------



## satanoperca (9 November 2020)

" Trump did shut down US borders at the start from China except US citizens. " Incorrect, you need to detail that statement a little more.

Again, the main bulk began in the Democrat states. " Excuses Excuses Excuses

" China exported this to the world for whatever reason. " What did he do about it, except for calling it a name. He had all the resources in the world, to make a stand, and all Chump man could do is call it a name.

"But the numbers are low compared to population. US has some real poverty. I'm surprised it wasn't more considering the freedom they still have from lockdowns. "
Maybe, I to can play with stats, but 238K dead is nearly x5 times the number of Americans that died in the Vietnam war.

So lets play some numbers to put it into perspective.
World War 11, US deaths approx 420K, Population at the time 132M.

So compared to WW11, it is currently less than 1/4 of the deaths adjusted, but the virus has not ended, by the time it is under control, I expect the figure to be around 400K, well still not as bad, but preventable.


----------



## moXJO (9 November 2020)

satanoperca said:


> " Trump did shut down US borders at the start from China except US citizens. " Incorrect, you need to detail that statement a little more.
> 
> Again, the main bulk began in the Democrat states. " Excuses Excuses Excuses
> 
> ...



How much as a % of the population. Playing with numbers is fun and all. But they are 9 or 10th on the list for deaths as a % of population. Making out they are the worst in the world is disingenuous.


----------



## SirRumpole (9 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> Trump could not get cohesive strategy because the divisiveness between Republican and Democrats.




That applies both ways.

Obamacare ?

Obama got elected twice on that mandate.

The Republicans blocked it.

Don't give Trump excuses that you are not prepared to give the other side.


----------



## satanoperca (9 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> Making out they are the worst in the world is disingenuous.



Firstly, don't be a Chump and make things up.

I did not and never have made out they are the worst in the world.

Repeat, don't be a Chump.

As a highly wealthy and rich nation, they have done appallingly. If you don't think so, go and talk to the 238K dead.

Repeat again, don't be a Chump, you are smarter than that, no need to make things up.


----------



## moXJO (9 November 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> That applies both ways.
> 
> Obamacare ?
> 
> ...



Legislation is a little different to a pandemic.

Trump worked with the states at the initial stages. 
Trump also failed in a lot of areas. 



What excuses do we have for the above?
Cloth masks have been shown not to work either.


----------



## moXJO (9 November 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Firstly, don't be a Chump and make things up.
> 
> I did not and never have made out they are the worst in the world.
> 
> ...



Trying to make a situation appear worse than the numbers suggests looked to me to be exactly what it was. States are important in the decision making. You know, like how Victoria here didn't have scomo sending in the Feds to take over. The state had to handle it. Unfortunately the constitution protects US citizens from tyranny by the state.
The initial reaction was to slow. After that its a bit late to do anything.

 238k dead. Yep everyone is to many. So point the finger from where they let it spread out across the world if you want to be serious. The same place that is currently tarrifing the hell out of us. 

You and everyone can call Trump whatever be it media or politician. No repercussions.
Meanwhile look the wrong way at the power above and we suffer real world consequences.


----------



## satanoperca (9 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> Cloth masks have been shown not to work either.




I will not ask you to provide evidence, I will ask you a simple question:
If you were standing next to someone who has the virus, would you choose to wear a cloth face mask or none at all?


----------



## moXJO (9 November 2020)

satanoperca said:


> I will not ask you to provide evidence, I will ask you a simple question:
> If you were standing next to someone who has the virus, would you choose to wear a cloth face mask or none at all?



It is actually probably more dangerous wearing the cloth mask. Depending on handling and disposal in that situation. 

They would have to wear it. And the effects according to studies show it does very little. The same reason that Dan andrews called for people to wear the n95 ones.
If anything it creates a false sense of protection.

I was of the opinion that they did protect you. But recently saw a study saying otherwise. Lines up with what dan done.


----------



## moXJO (9 November 2020)

Anyway time to start backing out of these threads. And I'll leave it at this.
Trump wasn't the threat that "groupthink" and "wrongthink"  have become.

As I said: We are all basically centre on here arguing over slight leaning of left or right persuasions. It gets amplified online and we can disagree.

But we did all come together each of us in our own special way. All of us fought for a common cause, together and in harmony.
And that was to give Joe an ongoing headache. No matter how he begged or pleaded we held strong. No matter the changed format or threats of deletion, we persisted. 
Pat yourselves on the back people as we truly merged into one tribe and shortened Joes life by ten years.


----------



## satanoperca (9 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> It is actually probably more dangerous wearing the cloth mask. Depending on handling and disposal in that situation.
> 
> They would have to wear it. And the effects according to studies show it does very little. The same reason that Dan andrews called for people to wear the n95 ones.
> If anything it creates a false sense of protection.
> ...



I tried to dumb the question down, and you still couldn't answer it.

It was simple, really simple, so you would prefer to be infected?


----------



## SirRumpole (9 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> Anyway time to start backing out of these threads. And I'll leave it at this.
> Trump wasn't the threat that "groupthink" and "wrongthink"  have become.
> 
> As I said: We are all basically centre on here arguing over slight leaning of left or right persuasions. It gets amplified online and we can disagree.
> ...




We probably increased his advertising revenue though.


----------



## satanoperca (9 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> Anyway time to start backing out of these threads. And I'll leave it at this.
> Trump wasn't the threat that "groupthink" and "wrongthink"  have become.
> 
> As I said: We are all basically centre on here arguing over slight leaning of left or right persuasions. It gets amplified online and we can disagree.
> ...



Spat the dummy, you must play golf with Chump man.


----------



## moXJO (9 November 2020)

satanoperca said:


> I tried to dumb the question down, and you still couldn't answer it.
> 
> It was simple, really simple, so you would prefer to be infected?





satanoperca said:


> Spat the dummy, you must play golf with Chump man.



Oh did I need to dumb down my answer. No I wouldn't wear a cloth mask. Your hypothetical was a bit light on details though.

Spat the dummy?
I've had to be a one man army against you lot of uninformed miscreants.

As promised I'm retiring from these threads after the Biden win.


----------



## satanoperca (9 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> I've had to be a one man army against you lot of uninformed miscreants.




Why do you say or make these accusations against all posters on ASF?

Did you learn this methodology of controlling the narrative from Chump University?


----------



## satanoperca (9 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> Oh did I need to dumb down my answer. No I wouldn't wear a cloth mask. Your hypothetical was a bit light on details though.




Pretty simple question, while I framed it, so you had no option but not answer, you could have simply said, if I had the option of being in an infected environment, given the only 2 options, a cloth mask or none, while not perfect, I will take the cloth as it might reduce the chances of me catching covid, but you own stubbornness, could not do that.

And you wonder why the world is .......


----------



## dutchie (9 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> Oh did I need to dumb down my answer. No I wouldn't wear a cloth mask. Your hypothetical was a bit light on details though.
> 
> Spat the dummy?
> I've had to be a one man army against you lot of uninformed miscreants.
> ...



You knock one down and another one pops up.


----------



## satanoperca (9 November 2020)

dutchie said:


> You knock one down and another one pops up.



Can you just stay down, as you provide no intellect into a conversation, but then again, as a graduate of Chump University, your commentary makes sense.


----------



## IFocus (9 November 2020)

dutchie said:


> You knock one down and another one pops up.





Haha, unfortunately the left is always 1st up against the wall until then there is no relent.


----------



## basilio (9 November 2020)

The fight for the Senate and a realistic opportunity for the Biden Presidency to implement its plans comes down to two Senate run off elections in Georgia on January 5th 2021.

The story of Stacy Abrams highlights why this might be a real contest in terms of representative democracy.

It's also a good story for those interested in learning the finer arts of voter suppression and using your elected office to make sure you win power. Just like good ole Trump.  








						How Georgia's Senate runoffs could finally hand Stacey Abrams her victory
					

Two years ago, she lost to then secretary of state Brian Kemp, but that loss spurred her to fight for Georgians’ right to vote




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## basilio (9 November 2020)

By the way how many posters here have seen the Twitter/You tube story of the "14,000 dead people who voted in  Michigan"

Check it out. I'm sure it will make great sport. I've brought together all the stories in one swoop. 









						LIBERTY COUNSEL: More than 14,000 dead people voted in Detroit - The Iowa Standard
					

The presidential election process has raised serious questions about a fair and transparent electoral system. America must set the example of fair elections. The world is watching. After the polls closed on November 3, President Trump was leading significantly in several swing states including...




					theiowastandard.com
				




PS.  Just don't worry about whether any of this might be true. After all Trump has absolutely no relation the truth.


----------



## sptrawler (9 November 2020)

IFocus said:


> Sadly the richest nation in the worlds history will still have people living on the streets begging and large numbers without access to health care or opportunity.



I don't think that is a recent phenomena, we will look forward to the new administration fix it, kind of reminds me of no child shall live in poverty stuff. 👍


----------



## Smurf1976 (10 November 2020)

If there’s one thing I hope Biden achieves as President it’s to put a stop to anti-intellectualism.

Stop that and it then stops things like science denial and “cancel culture” which are anti intellectual by their very nature.

Kill those two off and that then kills off a lot more nonsense at the next level down in a pyramid shaped tree.

Do that and ultimately it ought to rid society of much of the division, hate, tribalism and so on that we see today.

I’m not predicting that he will or won’t fix that, just noting that a return to an intellectual approach throughout society is crucial to moving forward on all manner of issues from the environment to economics to stamping out racism.

There will of course be a great many who vigorously fight any such progress......


----------



## IFocus (10 November 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I don't think that is a recent phenomena, we will look forward to the new administration fix it, kind of reminds me of no child shall live in poverty stuff. 👍





You missed the point SP it wont get fixed such is the wilful negligence of the "losers" being accepted by US politics.


----------



## spooly74 (10 November 2020)

👀
www.realclearpolitics.com

Might be hanging around a bit longer MoXJO


----------



## sptrawler (10 November 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> I wonder if they are on the dole as well.



They don't have to declare begging and as long as they meet the criteria can't be refused the dole.


----------



## derangedlawyer (10 November 2020)

Is there a thread dedicated to election betting? Would be good to hear what are the best platforms to do so for us in Australia.
Ladbrokes / Sportsbet / Bet365 all have blocked their markets.


----------



## basilio (10 November 2020)

This speech will a key part of the Trump campaign presentation to the upcoming legal challenge to the valifity of postal votes.
Who presents it to the judge is yet to be decided..


----------



## wayneL (10 November 2020)

I'm taking the 10/1 odds on Betfair on a Trump win.

I'm not saying that Trump will win from here, but it's a value bet in my opinion.


----------



## Joe Blow (10 November 2020)

All posts about homelessness have been moved to the Australia's Homeless thread.


----------



## wayneL (10 November 2020)

derangedlawyer said:


> Is there a thread dedicated to election betting? Would be good to hear what are the best platforms to do so for us in Australia.
> Ladbrokes / Sportsbet / Bet365 all have blocked their markets.



*BETFAIR*

The corporate bookies suck, if you are a winner, mate. They will either ban or restrict you.


----------



## grah33 (10 November 2020)

From what I saw in the debates before the election, Trump was far more passionate about getting things done, spoke more from the heart, while Biden's counter arguments seemed week.  I don't understand why the US prefers Biden .


----------



## wayneL (10 November 2020)

grah33 said:


> From what I saw in the debates before the election, Trump was far more passionate about getting things done, spoke more from the heart, while Biden's counter arguments seemed week.  I don't understand why the US prefers Biden .



It obvious mate, dead people overwhelmingly support Biden


----------



## spooly74 (10 November 2020)

wayneL said:


> I'm taking the 10/1 odds on Betfair on a Trump win.
> 
> I'm not saying that Trump will win from here, but it's a value bet in my opinion.



16 last night.
Buckle up.


----------



## grah33 (10 November 2020)

wayneL said:


> It obvious mate, dead people overwhelmingly support Biden
> 
> View attachment 114428



u mean it was rigged.  I wouldn't be surprised.  As societal values change, true democracy starts to fall apart, it seems to me


----------



## PZ99 (10 November 2020)

wayneL said:


> It obvious mate, dead people overwhelmingly support Biden
> 
> View attachment 114428



Hehe... that was from 2017 

Must've been the one that got away for Gore...


----------



## spooly74 (10 November 2020)

grah33 said:


> u mean it was rigged



Yes.
But the dead aren't enough to swing it.
Computer glitches played a role, too.

But, something is breaking right now with regards to voter registration under the hashtag #maidengate
Change of name & address when married but ballots we're requested and mailed to your old address /maiden name. It's checking out with multiple women confirming they voted under their old maiden name.
If this plays out, it's curtains for the Dems.


----------



## PZ99 (10 November 2020)

Tracking Viral Misinformation
					






					www.nytimes.com
				




Open in a private / incognito window


----------



## macca (10 November 2020)

Social media is a disaster, there is soooooooo much fake news out there I am completely confused

I will be very glad when the election is declared officially OVER


----------



## IFocus (10 November 2020)

Yeah apparently 5 mil to 10 mil plus dead people voted for Biden

You heard it here 1st.


----------



## PZ99 (10 November 2020)

IFocus said:


> Yeah apparently 5 mil to 10 mil plus dead people voted for Biden
> 
> You heard it here 1st.



Well if you count all the people who voted for him since 1973 that figure may not be far off


----------



## Lucky777 (11 November 2020)

Bets are still valid on bookies. It’s not “official” or how the media have called it. We’ll see...on it goes.


----------



## satanoperca (11 November 2020)

wayneL said:


> It obvious mate, dead people overwhelmingly support Biden
> 
> View attachment 114428



I think you are a little confused, 20,000,000 brain dead people voted for Chump.


----------



## wayneL (11 November 2020)

satanoperca said:


> I think you are a little confused, 20,000,000 brain dead people voted for Chump.



I'm out.

Topics du jour for me include, Central Banks, precious metals, cryptocurrencies, construction of the dragon portfolio, hot women... But not American politics, just a fly on the wall in that regard from now on.


----------



## wayneL (11 November 2020)

Buuuut, that's only for here. 

Happy for political sh1tfights on Twitter at @Antthefarrier

See ya there.


----------



## basilio (11 November 2020)

US election updates

Dems pulling further ahead on votes nationally.  Now 5.1 million more votes for Biden vs Trump
Close seats still polling strongly for Dems.  Georgia up by 12,000 votes, Arizona by 13,000,  Pennsylvania 48,000.. Nevada 3,300 (2.7%)
Republicians still pretending there has been widespread and overwhelming electoral fraud. 
*All fraud cases taken to court have been thrown out*
Postal worker says his fraud allegation was a untrue.









						US election 2020 results: Biden wins presidency, defeating Trump
					

Win in crucial key state of Pennsylvania hands Joe Biden the presidency




					www.theguardian.com
				











						Trump's longshot election lawsuits: where do things stand?
					

The president and other Republicans have filed a series of lawsuits in different states that several judges have already dismissed




					www.theguardian.com
				











						US postal worker recants voter-fraud claims after Republicans call for inquiry – reports
					

Democrats on House oversight committee say worker retracted allegations in interview with investigators




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Lucky777 (11 November 2020)

Agree. Sentiments are suited elsewhere.


----------



## moXJO (11 November 2020)

basilio said:


> US election updates
> 
> Dems pulling further ahead on votes nationally.  Now 5.1 million more votes for Biden vs Trump
> Close seats still polling strongly for Dems.  Georgia up by 12,000 votes, Arizona by 13,000,  Pennsylvania 48,000.. Nevada 3,300 (2.7%)
> ...



Untrue. Just fact check at a minimum.


----------



## satanoperca (11 November 2020)

That is disgusting. Cannot believe anything.


----------



## basilio (11 November 2020)

Yep there have been a squillion lies  and misrepresentations constructed across the net and megaphoned by the Liar in Chief

For a reality check.

*Here’s A Running List Of Debunked Postelection Rumors*

Watch out for baseless claims of voter fraud.

*Fact-checks from Monday, Nov. 9*

The Trump campaign’s communications director tweeted a fake Washington Times cover.
No, Mitt Romney has not been asked to join Biden's Cabinet.
No, CNN did not report that Dick Cheney will be advising Biden on foreign policy.
No, secret computer systems called “Hammer” and “Scorecard” are not being used to commit voter fraud.
Almost everything in the tweet about Michigan’s voting machines that Trump retweeted is wrong.
An out-of-context video falsely claims Biden admitted to voter fraud.
The video of ballots found in the trash in Oklahoma shows spoiled ballots, not votes for Trump that were improperly discarded.
A viral TikTok does not show an election worker tearing up a vote for Trump. It’s a joke.
RealClearPolitics didn't take the state of Pennsylvania away from Biden.









						Here’s A Running List Of Debunked Postelection Rumors
					

Watch out for baseless claims of voter fraud.




					www.buzzfeednews.com


----------



## basilio (11 November 2020)

Amazing really. Trump and his cronies echo  a litany of lies and deception about electoral issues, take them to the courts - and get them promptly  thrown out when they are proven as either wrong or so small potatoes it won't make a difference.

And then - having trumpeted this litany of deceit - they ask for anyone else in teh peanut gallery to come forward with more stories. Forget any evidence. Just have a story we can tell.  It's the 2020 version of the Jerry Springer show.

But  check out the facts of how  the first volley of cases has gone.


* Trump's longshot election lawsuits: where do things stand? *

The president and other Republicans have filed a series of lawsuits in different states that several judges have already dismissed

Since election day, Donald Trump and other Republicans have filed a smattering of lawsuits in battleground states that have provided cover for Trump and other Republicans to say that the election still remains unresolved

Legal experts have noted these suits are meritless, and even if they were successful, would not be enough to overturn the election results. Indeed, judges in several of these lawsuits have already dismissed them, noting the Trump campaign has failed to offer evidence to substantiate allegations of fraud.

Here’s where some of the key lawsuits stand:








						Trump's longshot election lawsuits: where do things stand?
					

The president and other Republicans have filed a series of lawsuits in different states that several judges have already dismissed




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## basilio (12 November 2020)

*“We’ve Uncovered A Sophisticated Plan To Rig The Election” Say People Who Accidentally Booked A Press Conference At A Landscaping Company     





*

The team of people who booked a Presidential press conference in the carpark of _Four Seasons Total Landscaping_ instead of the _Four Seasons International Hotel_, say they have uncovered a complex scheme of vote tampering and fraud.

“You have to believe us when we tell you that we’ve exposed one of the greatest frauds in American history,” the people told the media while standing outside of a run-down warehouse next to a sex shop.

Pausing to allow a dump truck to drive through the industrial estate, which is situated opposite a crematorium, a spokesperson for the group said that it took a keen eye and an attention to detail to spot what was going on with votes right now. “Not everyone can see it. But if you cross your i’s and dot your t’s like we do then it’s as clear as day,” he said, moving aside to allow a landscape contractor past to pick up supplies.

He said further details of the fraud would be revealed at tomorrow’s press conference, to be held at _Sheraton Concrete Cutting & Demolition_.








						“We’ve Uncovered A Sophisticated Plan To Rig The Election” Say People Who Accidentally Booked A Press Conference At A Landscaping Company
					

“We've crossed our i's and dotted our t's" said the man standing outside a run-down warehouse next to a sex shop”.




					www.theshovel.com.au


----------



## derangedlawyer (13 November 2020)

wayneL said:


> *BETFAIR*
> 
> The corporate bookies suck, if you are a winner, mate. They will either ban or restrict you.




Thanks mate, never tried Betfair - it's basically an anonymous peer to peer gambling prediction market but not blockchain based right?


----------



## wayneL (13 November 2020)

derangedlawyer said:


> Thanks mate, never tried Betfair - it's basically an anonymous peer to peer gambling prediction market but not blockchain based right?



No I don't believe it is blockchain


----------



## basilio (13 November 2020)

Hmm. I wonder what stories Trump can pull out of the bag of magical realism that can beat this announcement from the Department of Homeland Security on the US election?


*Joint Statement from Elections Infrastructure Government Coordinating Council & the Election Infrastructure Sector Coordinating Executive Committees*

                                   Original release date: November 12, 2020


WASHINGTON – The members of Election Infrastructure Government Coordinating Council (GCC) Executive Committee – Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) Assistant Director Bob Kolasky, U.S. Election Assistance Commission Chair Benjamin Hovland, National Association of Secretaries of State (NASS) President Maggie Toulouse Oliver, National Association of State Election Directors (NASED) President Lori Augino, and Escambia County (Florida) Supervisor of Elections David Stafford – and the members of the Election Infrastructure Sector Coordinating Council (SCC) – Chair Brian Hancock (Unisyn Voting Solutions), Vice Chair Sam Derheimer (Hart InterCivic), Chris Wlaschin (Election Systems & Software), Ericka Haas (Electronic Registration Information Center), and Maria Bianchi (Democracy Works) - released the following statement:

“The November 3rd election was the most secure in American history. Right now, across the country, election officials are reviewing and double checking the entire election process prior to finalizing the result. 

“When states have close elections, many will recount ballots. All of the states with close results in the 2020 presidential race have paper records of each vote, allowing the ability to go back and count each ballot if necessary. This is an added benefit for security and resilience. This process allows for the identification and correction of any mistakes or errors. *There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised.*

“Other security measures like pre-election testing, state certification of voting equipment, and the U.S. Election Assistance Commission’s (EAC) certification of voting equipment help to build additional confidence in the voting systems used in 2020.

“While we know there are many unfounded claims and opportunities for misinformation about the process of our elections, we can assure you we have the utmost confidence in the security and integrity of our elections, and you should too. When you have questions, turn to elections officials as trusted voices as they administer elections.”





__





						Joint Statement from Elections Infrastructure Government Coordinating Council & the Election Infrastructure Sector Coordinating Executive Committees | CISA
					

The members of Election Infrastructure Government Coordinating Council (GCC) Executive Committee – Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) Assistant Director Bob Kolasky, U.S. Election Assistance Commission Chair Benjamin Hovland, National Association of Secretaries of State...




					www.cisa.gov


----------



## basilio (13 November 2020)

No surprises here. The Head of Cyber security in the US government expects to be fired by Trump because he is correcting the torrent of lies over the election.

_Krebs has drawn praise from both Democrats and Republicans for his handling of the US election, which generally ran smoothly despite persistent fears in the run-up that foreign hackers might try to undermine the vote or that there might be chaos with mail-in voting during a pandemic or intimidation of voters going to the polls to cast their ballots in person.

But he drew the ire of the Trump White House over a website run by Cisa dubbed Rumor Control which debunks misinformation about the election, according to the three people familiar with the matter.

White House officials have asked for content to be edited or removed from the website, which has disputed numerous false claims about the election, including that Democrats are behind a mass election fraud scheme, for which no evidence has been presented. In response, Cisa officials have refused to delete accurate information.

*In particular, one person said, the White House was angry about a Cisa post rejecting a conspiracy theory that falsely claims an intelligence agency supercomputer and program, purportedly named Hammer and Scorecard, could have flipped votes nationally. No such system exists, according to Krebs, election security experts and former US officials.*_









						Top US cybersecurity official reportedly says he expects to be fired
					

Christopher Krebs leads the agency that secures voting technology, which has been pushing back on misinformation about the election




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## sptrawler (13 November 2020)

@basilio at this point, it seems that you appear to be the only one interested. 😉


----------



## macca (13 November 2020)

derangedlawyer said:


> Thanks mate, never tried Betfair - it's basically an anonymous peer to peer gambling prediction market but not blockchain based right?




i don't know about blockchain either but on some markets the holdings are Enormous


----------



## basilio (13 November 2020)

sptrawler said:


> @basilio at this point, it seems that you appear to be the only one interested. 😉




That's interesting... The current President has clearly lost the election but has decided to totally undermine public confidence in the electoral process by making completely unfounded claims about electoral  fraud.  He has also refused to acknowledge the result, has  refused to support the incoming Democrat transition team and has sacked any military  officials who are not totally loyal.

But no one here  is interested ? Concerned ? Wondering what is happening ?

Strange fruit indeed..

PS It isn't the only thread on ASF I post to either.


----------



## sptrawler (13 November 2020)

Yes, but nothing on here changes the outcome and obviously only you are hanging on to the theatre.
I guess the only way to carry this forward, is to wonder why some would want a republic, rather than the existing Australian system, when you have the ridiculous fiasco that the leading republic in the world can spew up.lol
Imagine:
President Kev.
President Julia.
President Tony.
President Malcolm.
President Scott.
I dont think so.lol


----------



## dutchie (14 November 2020)

This sums it up fairly well. But the market does not care. Keep pumping.


----------



## basilio (14 November 2020)

dutchie said:


> This sums it up fairly well. But the market does not care. Keep pumping.
> 
> View attachment 114674




Clever Dutchie,  Certainly sums up the overwhelming feeling of  Trump and 40 million plus US supporters.

So perhaps if  everyone put in $5 each we could fund a Trump led legal case where Donald gets the personal opportunity to explain to a court the evidence behind this statement and the reasoning that led him to predict it multiple times before the election. 

It would be a fantastic chance to show once and for all what Trump is made of and put to rest any doubts about his veracity.

Frankly I would be delighted to throw $50 into a Go Fund Me program to encourage such an action.


----------



## bellenuit (14 November 2020)

basilio said:


> So perhaps if  everyone put in $5 each we could fund a Trump led legal case where Donald gets the personal opportunity to explain to a court the evidence behind this statement and the reasoning that led him to predict it multiple times before the election.
> 
> Frankly I would be delighted to throw $50 into a Go Fund Me program to encourage such an action.




Include me in too.

*Trump campaign drops Arizona lawsuit requesting review of ballots*

*








						Trump campaign drops Arizona lawsuit requesting review of ballots
					

Lawyers for the Trump campaign have dropped a lawsuit seeking a review of all ballots cast on Election Day after finding that the margin of victory for the presidential contest in Arizona could not be overcome.




					edition.cnn.com
				



*
*Trump law firm withdraws from Pennsylvania case challenging election*

*








						Trump law firm withdraws from Pennsylvania case challenging election
					

The abrupt withdrawal overnight is a blow to the president’s efforts to overturn the result of the vote in court




					www.theguardian.com
				



*
*‘Purely outlandish stuff’: Trump’s legal machine grinds to a halt*

*








						‘Purely outlandish stuff’: Trump’s legal machine grinds to a halt
					

So many lawsuits have been filed in so many state and federal courts that no one has an exact number. The campaign has lost nearly all of the cases that have been decided so far.




					www.politico.com
				



*
*Trump Is Not Doing Well With His Election Lawsuits. Here’s a Rundown.*

*








						Trump Is Not Doing Well With His Election Lawsuits. Here’s a Rundown.
					

The president has suffered a string of defeats in pursuing legal action seeking to delay certification of his loss to President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr.




					www.nytimes.com
				



*


----------



## basilio (14 November 2020)

bellenuit said:


> Include me in too.
> 
> *Trump campaign drops Arizona lawsuit requesting review of ballots*
> 
> ...




There is one annoying, uncomfortable aspect for lawyers presenting cases to  a Court.
If they* lie* they are in serious trouble. 
Certainly would crimp their style in these cases.


----------



## derangedlawyer (16 November 2020)

bellenuit said:


> Include me in too.
> 
> *Trump campaign drops Arizona lawsuit requesting review of ballots
> 
> ...







Neither of these sources can be trusted anymore. Times and times again they have proven to have a clear anti-Trump bias. I remember when they were claiming Clinton had a 96% chance to beat Trump.. they are the anti-Trump equivalent of pro-Trump QAnon: both equally unreliable and heavily biased propaganda machines for each side.


----------



## bellenuit (16 November 2020)

derangedlawyer said:


> Neither of these sources can be trusted anymore. Times and times again they have proven to have a clear anti-Trump bias. I remember when they were claiming Clinton had a 96% chance to beat Trump.. they are the anti-Trump equivalent of pro-Trump QAnon: both equally unreliable and heavily biased propaganda machines for each side.




Don't be silly. They are reporting on court cases that have been thrown out or withdrawn. You can check them yourself if you doubt the veracity of  the articles.


----------



## satanoperca (16 November 2020)

Go Chump Man
$20T debt when you started
$27T debt today > %35 increase in 4 years, you are truly the master of screwing things up
$48T debt projected in 4 years, the legacy of Chump man


----------



## sptrawler (17 November 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Go Chump Man
> $20T debt when you started
> $27T debt today > %35 increase in 4 years, you are truly the master of screwing things up
> $48T debt projected in 4 years, the legacy of Chump man



Probably most of that 35% was in the last 6 months.


----------



## wayneL (17 November 2020)

Just my tuppenth at the moment for what it's worth.

We are in limbo; but on the face of it Biden seems to be over the line, SCOTUS still has to play its hand according to the law and evidence presented to it.

I don't think anybody knows how that is going to play out right now, so the agnostic position is to just sit back and watch what happens...

...and anything can happen at this point.

Media gaslighting should be ignored until SCOTUS rules.


----------



## satanoperca (17 November 2020)

wayneL said:


> Just my tuppenth at the moment for what it's worth.
> 
> We are in limbo; but on the face of it Biden seems to be over the line, SCOTUS still has to play its hand according to the law and evidence presented to it.
> 
> ...




Well, that is dead in the water, you cannot provide fake evidence to a court, he should have done at least one unit in law at university to understand that. Chump is screwed.

Either way, it is the death of an empire.


----------



## wayneL (17 November 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Well, that is dead in the water, you cannot provide fake evidence to a court, he should have done at least one unit in law at university to understand that. Chump is screwed.
> 
> Either way, it is the death of an empire.



Well, you may find this particular tome of interest...









						Audible.com | Unlock a listen for every moment
					

Discover thousands of binge-worthy audiobooks, exclusive content, and genre-bending Audible Originals. Free trial available!




					www.audible.com.au


----------



## satanoperca (17 November 2020)

@wayneL do you believe Chump won or not?
And if you believe he did, do you think he is making America great again or just himself?


----------



## wayneL (17 November 2020)

satanoperca said:


> @wayneL do you believe Chump won or not?
> And if you believe he did, do you think he is making America great again or just himself?



Let's put it this way, I am having trouble believing the numbers.

If they are ridgey didge, then fair enough, Godspeed to Biden and the Democrats, America will reap what they have sown, whether that is good, bad, or indifferent.

If the numbers have been rorted, not only is it in Trump's and America's interests (whether good, bad, or indifferent), but there is a moral and legal responsibility to discover and prosecute that.

That is what this process is all about now...

Let's see what happens.


----------



## satanoperca (17 November 2020)

wayneL said:


> Let's put it this way, I am having trouble believing the numbers.



I agree.

The election was rigid!

Surely there is not 70M+ Americans that believe their future can be better in the hands of a pathological liar.


----------



## wayneL (17 November 2020)

As a point of order @satanoperca , can you name one politician thatt isn't a pathological liar?

How about Sleazy Joe and Komrade Kamala?

Paragons of virtue, are they?


----------



## satanoperca (17 November 2020)

The Chump man beats everyone, he went for gold lying and won the gold.

This virus will just disappear. Correct after 300,000 + US citizens will lose their lives.
We have a vaccine within weeks, that was 4months ago
The election was rigid, I won it, cannot prove it so far.

Do I need to go on.

If you wish to believe that an idiot can drain the swamp when he is the swamp, go ahead, each to their own.


----------



## wayneL (17 November 2020)

satanoperca said:


> The Chump man beats everyone, he went for gold lying and won the gold.
> 
> This virus will just disappear. Correct after 300,000 + US citizens will lose their lives.
> We have a vaccine within weeks, that was 4months ago
> ...



I refer to my comment (my tuppenth) above and bid you adieu, for now.

Mpaka kesho


----------



## satanoperca (17 November 2020)

Something in english might help with the discussion. @wayneL

It seems that either sides of the extreme far right or left thinkers are drowning out the moderates that just want to get on with life, enjoy and love each other without hate and build and contribute to a great community/society. 

We could simply say both the left and right are bullies.


----------



## wayneL (17 November 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Something in english might help with the discussion. @wayneL
> 
> It seems that either sides of the extreme far right or left thinkers are drowning out the moderates that just want to get on with life, enjoy and love each other without hate and build and contribute to a great community/society.
> 
> We could simply say both the left and right are bullies.




1)


satanoperca said:


> Something in english might help with the discussion. @wayneL
> 
> It seems that either sides of the extreme far right or left thinkers are drowning out the moderates that just want to get on with life, enjoy and love each other without hate and build and contribute to a great community/society.
> 
> We could simply say both the left and right are bullies.



Diversity being the order of the day, I thought some English/Middle English/French/Swahili patois would've been seen as quite charming.

Damn... I will have to tell my East African born wife to stick to upper middle bogun.

But yeah, the extremes dictate the Overton Window... which for we moderates, totally sucks dog's bollox.

One should give some serious thought to where the window should actually be rather than where it is?


----------



## PZ99 (17 November 2020)

Bugger... and here I am thinking that 4 years ago the general populace of the USA voted to _escape_ the Overton Window dictated by the establishment... isn't that what the Trump experiment was supposed to be all about ?


----------



## basilio (18 November 2020)

*Where will Donald Trump take the US ?*

I opened that thread five years ago when Trump begin his race for Presidency. He became President and has now lost office - but not in his eyes of course.

A million things have happened in the last 5 years. In some peoples eyes  Trump has turned the US around and shaken the political system to its core. In the last few days however I saw a few events which, in my view, epitomized what Trump has done to the Presidency  and to the US Political system.

1) A few days ago the head of  Homeland cyber security, Chris Kebbs,  noted that the US election results  were the most secure and honest of any US election. He went one step further and provided an updated web page which addressed numerous claims of electoral malfeasance and indicted exactly where these were either mistaken or just untrue.
*Chris Kebbs was  taking responsibility for ensuring that the US electoral system was honest and that people could trust the results*.

However he also predicted that the President ,* who was in fact the chief promoter of these allegations,* would be enraged  and that he would be fired for his actions.

As  Chris predicted, today Donald Trump  fired him. *The President of the United States sacked the Head of a critical Department for protecting the integrity of the electoral system.....*

2) As the election results have unfolded Donald Trump and his supporters have attempted to "find" evidence of some overwhelming electoral fraud that could enable Trump to be win the election. Dozens of stories have surfaced. In almost every case they have been proven wrong.  

At the very most there may have been questionable votes *in the hundreds* across the four States that they were attempting to turn.  Given that the Democrat leads in each of these States ranged from *10k to 70k* there was no way the election results could be disputed.

In that context a series of Judges  across the States have thrown out  all claims as either misproven,  lacking evidence or inconsequential.

But then the other shoe falls.

Lindsay Graham has seen electoral officers in the  four States and attempted to explore how the officers could disregard hundreds of thousands of mail in ballots. This enterprise was intended to negate sufficient Democrat votes, many many thousands, to change the results.

In a nutshell ? 

No one can have their integrity working for Trump.  You either get sacked or resign. 
If you do work for Trump you will almost inevitably become a criminal or allow criminal behavior.









						Report: Lindsey Graham Suggested Tossing Out Legal Mail-In Ballots In Georgia, Secretary Of State Says
					

Graham is the latest Republican to suggest Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger alter Georgia’s recount process.




					www.forbes.com
				












						Trump fires top US cybersecurity official Chris Krebs for debunking false election claims – TechCrunch
					

Chris Krebs was appointed by President Trump to head the newly created CISA cybersecurity agency in 2018.




					techcrunch.com


----------



## Joules MM1 (18 November 2020)




----------



## satanoperca (18 November 2020)

Joules MM1 said:


>




Fantastic, move out the f---king liar.

The only scam is Chump man! Go back to the swamp.

Cannot believe that rational humans fell for his scam, he is the scam.


----------



## moXJO (18 November 2020)

Some of the recounts for gop for those interested. Hard to find much detailed mainstream stuff.

Its a multipost thread on Twitter. More information when you click on. A few discrepancies against gop.


----------



## satanoperca (18 November 2020)

Based on what? 

Chump man lost, keep the lies/fake news coming. You are supporting and perputating lies.

How hard is this for rational people to understand. You look for evidence, so far, every court in the USA has rejected Chump mans claims.

Keep supporting a liar. The human race is f----kd.


----------



## satanoperca (18 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> Some of the recounts for gop for those interested. Hard to find much detailed mainstream stuff.
> 
> Its a multipost thread on Twitter. More information when you click on. A few discrepancies against gop.




FAKE FAKE FAKE


----------



## basilio (18 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> Some of the recounts for gop for those interested. Hard to find much detailed mainstream stuff.
> 
> Its a multipost thread on Twitter. More information when you click on. A few discrepancies against gop.





Interesting..  I followed up the reference and , in fact, there were  very good reasons why these discrepancies  haven't been in mainstream media.

They mean absolutely nothing.  Still worth a read though to learn more about the processes of checking and rechecking votes.
I suggest someone "cherry picked" a couple of useful figures when trying to drum up support for mistrusting the election.

*State House Dome: Recounts 'find' votes, not fraud in NH        *

THERE IS NO evidence of widespread voter fraud in New Hampshire.
It is also true that nearly every election recount “finds” votes.
(Then more explanations of what they did and found)

....  When the recount was complete, Avard had 17,534 votes to 16,729 for Levesque.
The victory margin was 805 votes,* exactly the same as before the recount.*









						State House Dome: Recounts 'find' votes, not fraud in NH
					

THERE IS NO evidence of widespread voter fraud in New Hampshire.




					www.unionleader.com


----------



## basilio (18 November 2020)

There is an update on the voting in the US election. Still counting the last votes but nothing significant has changed . 
Trump can ask for a recount in Wisconsin - if he can pony up $10m.   Good luck with that.

National voting figures show Biden around 5.8M votes ahead.









						Vote counting is still underway in the US. Here's where states are at
					

A recount in Wisconsin is looking costly for the Trump campaign, while officials in Georgia discover thousands of uncounted ballots.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## IFocus (18 November 2020)

Simple test of voter fraud.

Senate and Congress election were conducted at the same time, same way?

Where is the claims of fraud about that?

End of discussion, seriously.


----------



## IFocus (18 November 2020)

While we are here this discusses Trump mental health which will be uncomfortable for his supporters if so please look away now   

*As His Mental State Disintegrates, He Will Take Millions of People Down with Him; ‘America First’ Will Come to Mean America Last*


As the most eminent mental health experts warned would happen since Donald Trump’s election, the office of the U.S. presidency has become a locus of grave psychological dysfunction.

Seldom do we see our warnings realized in real life with such recurrent, precise confirmation, as if on schedule.












						Trump's Derangement Threatens the Entire World | DCReport.org
					

Trump's Derangement Threatens the Entire World. As His Mental State Declines, He Will Take Millions Down with Him; ‘America First’ Will Mean America Last




					www.dcreport.org
				





Update

Calm before the storm: the shame of admitting defeat too much for Trump’s psyche

 Donald Trump’s bigger-than-life persona hides an empty inner core. Exposure of any flaws in his façade has the potential of destroying him, at least in his mind, since there is nothing of substance to fall back on. Some experts believe the period ahead could therefore be the most dangerous period of Trump’s presidency. Dr Bandy X. Lee and Elizabeth Mika report. 










						Calm before the storm: the shame of admitting defeat too much for Trump's psyche - Michael West Media
					

Trump's bigger-than-life persona hides an empty core. Exposure of any flaws in his façade has the potential of destroying him psychically.




					www.michaelwest.com.au


----------



## moXJO (19 November 2020)

basilio said:


> Interesting..  I followed up the reference and , in fact, there were  very good reasons why these discrepancies  haven't been in mainstream media.
> 
> They mean absolutely nothing.  Still worth a read though to learn more about the processes of checking and rechecking votes.
> I suggest someone "cherry picked" a couple of useful figures when trying to drum up support for mistrusting the election.
> ...



All the discrepancies were against gop. Thousands of votes suddenly being found. Not to mention recorded ballot counts in 72% of Detroit's absentee voting precincts didn't match the number of ballots cast. 

In saying that I don't think there was widespread fraud. I think there was widespread ballot harvesting and granny farming. Thats a grey area that is legal to a point.
Its hard finding a good breakdown of actual numbers. Not the skim counts the mainstream are using. But I can't see Trump winning off what I can find. 

Gop simply didn’t have a good mail in ballot strategy. They should have used ballot harvesters or need to start getting their sht together for similar tactics to the dems. This was one of the biggest elections and voter turnout I've seen. Also one of the most suss I've seen in a long time.


----------



## DB008 (19 November 2020)




----------



## basilio (19 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> All the discrepancies were against gop. Thousands of votes suddenly being found. Not to mention recorded ballot counts in 72% of Detroit's absentee voting precincts didn't match the number of ballots cast.
> 
> In saying that I don't think there was widespread fraud. I think there was widespread ballot harvesting and granny farming. Thats a grey area that is legal to a point.
> Its hard finding a good breakdown of actual numbers. Not the skim counts the mainstream are using. But I can't see Trump winning off what I can find.
> ...




Yeah  no..
They only reason why this  ridiculous conversation about electoral fraud is running is because Donald Trump decided  from the beginning of his run that the only way he could lose  was by electoral fraud. He ran that line in 2016 but of course he won. So there couldn't have been fraud could there ?

In 2020 he sowed the seeds of "electoral fraud" from the start of his campaign. This was the "only way he was going to lose".  He watered those seeds at every opportunity  creating the mindset amongst supporters that "if he lost it was all rigged".

The election came. Trump (not  necessarily the Republican Party ) suffered a clear loss. The margins in all the seats are far too big to overcome with minor electoral vote issues.

And so  true to his word from day one post election Trump has insisted it was all rigged. That is just a gigantic lie.
____________________________________________

The Cyber Section Department of Homeland Security was entrusted with ensuring the  US electoral system was  secure and transparent . Processes were overhauled to protect computer systems, ensure voting procedures were transparent, recorded and verifiable.  Chris Kebbs as Head of the Department was recognised by all politicians as having done a particularly good job of  safeguarding the electoral system.

After the election when Trump made up his stories of malfeasance Chris addressed each issue on line and showed the misunderstandings or straight out untruths.

Chris, as he predicted, was sacked by Trump for ensuring a free and fair election.

So in 2020 we have the President of the US refusing to accept the results of a sweeping  election loss, denouncing any and all election officials who presided over the election and creating an army of voters who now believe he was robbed. 

I believe Donald Trump deserves to have his day in court and be given the opportunity  under oath to prove how he was robbed of this election.  And Jenna Ellis should be there alongside him as his Legal Counsel providing that evidence. Let's get to the bottom of this story.


----------



## basilio (19 November 2020)

This is the current state of the legal proceedings Trump is using to prove electoral fraud.

There are a number of other stories on ABC news that examine the efforts to challenge the eelction results.








						Infighting and an attempted 'coup': Trump team erupts into chaos as Giuliani takes over legal efforts
					

President Trump's campaign and legal teams have descended into chaos behind the scenes as many brace for the end of the post-election fight.




					abcnews.go.com


----------



## basilio (19 November 2020)

DB008 said:


> View attachment 114903​



*                                          BIGLY Lying.

It's a SHAME  I can't make these Fonts as Big as Jenna Ellis BIG LIES.
Lets see Jenna stand up in a Court of Law  next to Donald Trump on Oath and prove a case for a Rigged election.

And then face the consequences.*


----------



## dutchie (19 November 2020)

DB008 said:


> View attachment 114903​



That sums up the last four years very well.
A lot of hypocrites around here.


----------



## IFocus (19 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> All the discrepancies were against gop. Thousands of votes suddenly being found. Not to mention recorded ballot counts in 72% of Detroit's absentee voting precincts didn't match the number of ballots cast.
> 
> In saying that I don't think there was widespread fraud. I think there was widespread ballot harvesting and granny farming. Thats a grey area that is legal to a point.
> Its hard finding a good breakdown of actual numbers. Not the skim counts the mainstream are using. But I can't see Trump winning off what I can find.
> ...







IFocus said:


> Simple test of voter fraud.
> 
> *Senate and Congress election were conducted at the same time, same way?
> 
> ...


----------



## orr (19 November 2020)

It's glorious to watch the Herculean effort put into the maintenance of obsessive delusion against objective reality ... And then you come along Focus and swat it like a knat...


----------



## basilio (19 November 2020)

orr said:


> It's glorious to watch the Herculean effort put into the maintenance of obsessive delusion against objective reality ... And then you come along Focus and swat it like a knat...




Maybe.  But I suggest you check out the  Republican philosophy of  " When you are in power you creating your own reality" .
Espoused by Dick Cheney as VP to George Bush and brought to full bloom by Donald Trump. (Check out VICE on Netflix..)

On all the evidence to date I see little chance of  many posters on ASF ever accepting even the most concrete realities (like these election results) when it conflicts with Trumps truths.  The fact that 40 million plus Americans now truly believe the election was rigged and Trump lost unfairly is on par with the biggest lies of history.


----------



## moXJO (19 November 2020)

Parroting the latest twitter leftist line while ignoring GA.

And I'm sorry but this election was rigged via mail ins. Its not happened on that scale before.

Bas once again you ignore that numbers. This Idiotic thinking of: "“Trump is stupid for wanting recounts, audits and observers.”. When the counts have been this close and now we find thousands of ballots in counties. We had one actually change hands. Its close and could change seats for some. 

Orr you are a leftist dope. Ifocus I doubt you understand much beyond the one liners coming out. And Bas well you are about as partial as Isis. You parrot stuff thinking it somehow absolves everything. You post irrelevant rubbish to try and prove what? The numbers I posted was a lie... How about just posting numbers. Oh and the computer system they use is different for different states. There were glitches and human errors. 

Once again for you band of idiots. I believe Biden won it through a legal but very grey technique. 

But there are discrepancies in the vote count and some dodgy dealings. I also think this has been going on for a while. Look at bush and gore. 

Anyway another lodging a complaint. They would need forensics on the ballots.
Needs to be proven true. If Trump gets an audit it will be interesting.
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/18632787/6/4/wood-v-raffensperger/




Most likely just a ballot harvester. US voting system definitely has some loopholes.

But so does Australia.


----------



## IFocus (19 November 2020)

Mo, I do not think either side is pure but you are failing simple tests such as the GOP and Trump are not disputing the seats won by GOP Senators and those in Congress.  

How strange?

Wasn't it the same election or did it all happen on a different day and there were no mail in ballots for that part?

Then there is voter suppression taken to new levels this election.

How about GOP gerrymander.

And you believe ballot assistance stole the election, or ballots suddenly found stole the election.

US politics is really bent, GOP = white hats / Democrats = black hats ....yeah nah.

Trumps / GOP behaviour is seeking to delegitimise the Biden presidency  but the real casualty is  US democracy, thank god those idols don't reign here in Oz. 

Last word from me its gotten beyond the absurd.


----------



## derangedlawyer (19 November 2020)

bellenuit said:


> Don't be silly. They are reporting on court cases that have been thrown out or withdrawn. *You can check them yourself* if you doubt the veracity of  the articles.




Well, have you? He just won a lawsuit in PA and a lot of the fraud cases aren't even from his team - they're independent private lawsuits from citizens. Also the lawsuits are allegeing impropriety - not fraud. And plenty of proof of the former.


----------



## satanoperca (19 November 2020)

derangedlawyer said:


> Well, have you? He just won a lawsuit in PA and a lot of the fraud cases aren't even from his team - they're independent private lawsuits from citizens. Also the lawsuits are allegeing impropriety - not fraud. And plenty of proof of the former.



Please provide some references to your statements.


----------



## wayneL (19 November 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Please provide some references to your statements.



I'm not sure of a blow by blow commentary really serves much apart from a bit of mutual trolling and entertainment.

All the behind the scenes crap is rather opaque for us plebeians so we really need to see what washes out in the end, at the end.

It is only then whether we shall see a glorious future under the God Emperor, or a postmodern nightmare and the Whitehouse episode of Weekend at Bernie's.


----------



## satanoperca (19 November 2020)

wayneL said:


> It is only then whether we shall see a glorious future under the God Emperor, or a postmodern nightmare and the Whitehouse episode of Weekend at Bernie's.




Your statement is biased, no different to the media.

If the god emperor stays in power, wonderful, but if those others get in power, we are all f---kd.

Don't you see the hypocrisy of your statement?

Ie " President Donald Trump’s campaign has filed yet another version of its lawsuit over the election results in Pennsylvania, now contending that he should be named the victor in the presidential contest there or that the state legislature be given the authority to assign the state’s 20 electoral votes. "
He filed another one as he has lost 29 out of 29.


----------



## wayneL (19 November 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Your statement is biased, no different to the media.
> 
> If the god emperor stays in power, wonderful, but if those others get in power, we are all f---kd.
> 
> ...



You didn't see the the satirical value in my post?

I'm gutted.


----------



## satanoperca (19 November 2020)

I understand 1's and 0's


----------



## wayneL (20 November 2020)

satanoperca said:


> I understand 1's and 0's



Does this help? 

01001001 00100111 01101101 00100000 01101110 01101111 01110100 00100000 01110011 01110101 01110010 01100101 00100000 01101111 01100110 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100010 01101100 01101111 01110111 00100000 01100010 01111001 00100000 01100010 01101100 01101111 01110111 00100000 01100011 01101111 01101101 01101101 01100101 01101110 01110100 01100001 01110010 01111001 00100000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01101100 01101100 01111001 00100000 01110011 01100101 01110010 01110110 01100101 01110011 00100000 01101101 01110101 01100011 01101000 00100000 01100001 01110000 01100001 01110010 01110100 00100000 01100110 01110010 01101111 01101101 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100010 01101001 01110100 00100000 01101111 01100110 00100000 01101101 01110101 01110100 01110101 01100001 01101100 00100000 01110100 01110010 01101111 01101100 01101100 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 01100001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01100101 01101110 01110100 01100101 01110010 01110100 01100001 01101001 01101110 01101101 01100101 01101110 01110100 00101110 00001101 00001010 00001101 00001010 01000001 01101100 01101100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01100010 01100101 01101000 01101001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01110011 01100011 01100101 01101110 01100101 01110011 00100000 01100011 01110010 01100001 01110000 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01110010 01100001 01110100 01101000 01100101 01110010 00100000 01101111 01110000 01100001 01110001 01110101 01100101 00100000 01100110 01101111 01110010 00100000 01110101 01110011 00100000 01110000 01101100 01100101 01100010 01100101 01101001 01100001 01101110 01110011 00100000 01110011 01101111 00100000 01110111 01100101 00100000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01101100 01101100 01111001 00100000 01101110 01100101 01100101 01100100 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01110011 01100101 01100101 00100000 01110111 01101000 01100001 01110100 00100000 01110111 01100001 01110011 01101000 01100101 01110011 00100000 01101111 01110101 01110100 00100000 01101001 01101110 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01100101 01101110 01100100 00101100 00100000 01100001 01110100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01100101 01101110 01100100 00101110 00001101 00001010 00001101 00001010 01001001 01110100 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01101111 01101110 01101100 01111001 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 01101110 00100000 01110111 01101000 01100101 01110100 01101000 01100101 01110010 00100000 01110111 01100101 00100000 01110011 01101000 01100001 01101100 01101100 00100000 01110011 01100101 01100101 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01101100 01101111 01110010 01101001 01101111 01110101 01110011 00100000 01100110 01110101 01110100 01110101 01110010 01100101 00100000 01110101 01101110 01100100 01100101 01110010 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01000111 01101111 01100100 00100000 01000101 01101101 01110000 01100101 01110010 01101111 01110010 00101100 00100000 01101111 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01110000 01101111 01110011 01110100 01101101 01101111 01100100 01100101 01110010 01101110 00100000 01101110 01101001 01100111 01101000 01110100 01101101 01100001 01110010 01100101 00100000 01100001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01010111 01101000 01101001 01110100 01100101 01101000 01101111 01110101 01110011 01100101 00100000 01100101 01110000 01101001 01110011 01101111 01100100 01100101 00100000 01101111 01100110 00100000 01010111 01100101 01100101 01101011 01100101 01101110 01100100 00100000 01100001 01110100 00100000 01000010 01100101 01110010 01101110 01101001 01100101 00100111 01110011 00101110


----------



## PZ99 (20 November 2020)

wayneL said:


> Does this help?
> 
> 01001001 00100111 01101101 00100000 01101110 01101111 01110100 00100000 01110011 01110101 01110010 01100101 00100000 01101111 01100110 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100010 01101100 01101111 01110111 00100000 01100010 01111001 00100000 01100010 01101100 01101111 01110111 00100000 01100011 01101111 01101101 01101101 01100101 01101110 01110100 01100001 01110010 01111001 00100000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01101100 01101100 01111001 00100000 01110011 01100101 01110010 01110110 01100101 01110011 00100000 01101101 01110101 01100011 01101000 00100000 01100001 01110000 01100001 01110010 01110100 00100000 01100110 01110010 01101111 01101101 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100010 01101001 01110100 00100000 01101111 01100110 00100000 01101101 01110101 01110100 01110101 01100001 01101100 00100000 01110100 01110010 01101111 01101100 01101100 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 01100001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01100101 01101110 01110100 01100101 01110010 01110100 01100001 01101001 01101110 01101101 01100101 01101110 01110100 00101110 00001101 00001010 00001101 00001010 01000001 01101100 01101100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01100010 01100101 01101000 01101001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01110011 01100011 01100101 01101110 01100101 01110011 00100000 01100011 01110010 01100001 01110000 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01110010 01100001 01110100 01101000 01100101 01110010 00100000 01101111 01110000 01100001 01110001 01110101 01100101 00100000 01100110 01101111 01110010 00100000 01110101 01110011 00100000 01110000 01101100 01100101 01100010 01100101 01101001 01100001 01101110 01110011 00100000 01110011 01101111 00100000 01110111 01100101 00100000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01101100 01101100 01111001 00100000 01101110 01100101 01100101 01100100 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01110011 01100101 01100101 00100000 01110111 01101000 01100001 01110100 00100000 01110111 01100001 01110011 01101000 01100101 01110011 00100000 01101111 01110101 01110100 00100000 01101001 01101110 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01100101 01101110 01100100 00101100 00100000 01100001 01110100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01100101 01101110 01100100 00101110 00001101 00001010 00001101 00001010 01001001 01110100 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01101111 01101110 01101100 01111001 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 01101110 00100000 01110111 01101000 01100101 01110100 01101000 01100101 01110010 00100000 01110111 01100101 00100000 01110011 01101000 01100001 01101100 01101100 00100000 01110011 01100101 01100101 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01101100 01101111 01110010 01101001 01101111 01110101 01110011 00100000 01100110 01110101 01110100 01110101 01110010 01100101 00100000 01110101 01101110 01100100 01100101 01110010 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01000111 01101111 01100100 00100000 01000101 01101101 01110000 01100101 01110010 01101111 01110010 00101100 00100000 01101111 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01110000 01101111 01110011 01110100 01101101 01101111 01100100 01100101 01110010 01101110 00100000 01101110 01101001 01100111 01101000 01110100 01101101 01100001 01110010 01100101 00100000 01100001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01010111 01101000 01101001 01110100 01100101 01101000 01101111 01110101 01110011 01100101 00100000 01100101 01110000 01101001 01110011 01101111 01100100 01100101 00100000 01101111 01100110 00100000 01010111 01100101 01100101 01101011 01100101 01101110 01100100 00100000 01100001 01110100 00100000 01000010 01100101 01110010 01101110 01101001 01100101 00100111 01110011 00101110



That describes the outcome of the election perfectly.

The quick brown 🦊 jumps over 13 lazy 🐶.

That is why 01010100 01110010 01110101 01101101 01110000 00100000 01101100 01101111 01110011 01110100


----------



## wayneL (20 November 2020)

The plot thickens. There are some pretty heavy duty legal reputations on the line here. If this is all bunkum and just a dog and pony show, then Sidney and Lin's reputations are cactus.

There is also The curious case of the dog that barked in the night, ie it didn't bark (Kamala has not resigned her senate seat).


----------



## satanoperca (20 November 2020)

01011001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01100110 01101100 01101001 01110000 00100000 01100001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01100011 01101000 01100001 01101110 01100111 01100101 00101100 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01101101 01100001 01101011 01100101 00100000 01110011 01110100 01100001 01110100 01100101 01101101 01100101 01101110 01110100 01110011 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100001 01110100 00100000 01101111 01100110 01110100 01100101 01101110 00100000 01100100 01101111 00100000 01101110 01101111 01110100 00100000 01101101 01100001 01101011 01100101 00100000 01100001 01101110 01111001 00100000 01110011 01100101 01101110 01110011 01100101 00101110 00100000 01011001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01110011 01110101 01110000 01110000 01101111 01110010 01110100 00100000 01000011 01101000 01110101 01101101 01110000 00100000 01100010 01110101 01110100 00100000 01100100 01101111 01101110 00100111 01110100 00101100 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01110011 01101000 01101111 01110111 00100000 01100010 01101001 01100001 01110011 01100101 01100100 00100000 01100001 01110011 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01100010 01100101 01101100 01101001 01100101 01110110 01100101 00100000 01000100 01100101 01101101 01110011 00100000 01100001 01110010 01100101 00100000 01100011 01110010 01101111 01101111 01101011 01100101 01100100 00101110 00001010 01000010 01110101 01110100 00100000 01000011 01101000 01110101 01101101 01110000 00100000 01101101 01100001 01101110 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100011 01101111 01101110 01110011 01101001 01110011 01110100 01100101 01101110 01110100 00100000 01101100 01101001 01100001 01110010 00100000 01101111 01110101 01110100 00100000 01100110 01101111 01110010 00100000 01101111 01101110 01101100 01111001 00100000 01101000 01101001 01101101 01110011 01100101 01101100 01100110 00101110


----------



## PZ99 (20 November 2020)

Anyone got the full version of that conference ?

Because there's more to it 

Such as...

“Speaking of our vote being held and processed, tabulated overseas,”

“there is reports that there was a piece of hardware, possibly a server picked up in Germany. Is that true, and is it related to this?”

“That is true,” Powell replied. “It is somehow related to this, but I do not know whether good guys got it or bad guys got it.”



			https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/11/19/heres-how-seriously-you-should-take-trump-legal-teams-conspiracy-theories/
		










						Sidney Powell - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## moXJO (20 November 2020)

IFocus said:


> Mo, I do not think either side is pure but you are failing simple tests such as the GOP and Trump are not disputing the seats won by GOP Senators and those in Congress.
> 
> How strange?
> 
> ...



You are looking at the whole and not at the targeted swing states. To swing the election you needed a few key states or counties within those states. Efforts don't need to be country wide.

And that's where its being carefully looked at.

I'm saying two things:
Trump lost, nothing will save him. He will be turfed. Thats the beauty of the constitution.

Democrats ran a dodgy campaign. Ballot harvesting should be illegal. Along with all the other crap to abuse the vote.

To add
Those discrepancies should absolutely be checked, if only to clear everyone involved.



satanoperca said:


> Please provide some references to your statements.



The court action I posted above was one. Along with the twitter link I posted before had multiple "references".

As I have said before: Trump inadvertently, (through zero intention and most likely incompetence), will create a situation that ends with cleaning up parts of a corrupt voting system.


----------



## moXJO (20 November 2020)

Its hard finding many people that have taken the numbers. Here is a video of a guy that "said" he went through 2 million calls on suspicious votes (hired a call centre) and ran the numbers. 
Released tomorrow. Will be interesting to see.


----------



## satanoperca (20 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> Its hard finding many people that have taken the numbers. Here is a video of a guy that "said" he went through 2 million calls on suspicious votes (hired a call centre) and ran the numbers.
> Released tomorrow. Will be interesting to see.





Old Matt looks like he can be trusted.


Matt Braynard
@MattBraynard
Executive Director of Look Ahead America. Former Data Chief and Strategist for Trump for President. matt@braynard.com.


----------



## SirRumpole (20 November 2020)

basilio said:


> Trump can ask for a recount in Wisconsin - if he can pony up $10m.  Good luck with that.




Interesting that you have to pay for a recount.

Does that happen in Australia ?


----------



## moXJO (20 November 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Old Matt looks like he can be trusted.
> 
> 
> Matt Braynard
> ...



Numbers matter. Are you arguing the methodology of the way data was collected was incorrect?
He is looking for fraud that will be used in court. It will get torn to shreds if its fake.


If its tainted its easily spotted and verified.
What isn't  easily verifiable is that once a mail in envelope is opened and thrown, it is next to impossible to prove voter fraud. The case where the  official witnesses (who video every vote open and counted) were told to move back, were blocked from entering, told to leave early is a big deal for that reason.

The envelopes get tossed and that's the part that shows the vote is legit. Mail ins are a magnet for fraud.
So now you need time to find  enough people who will come forward and say that someone else took their vote ( 15000 in one state turned up to be told they had already voted via mail ins) or crunch the numbers in an audit. Even then good luck with it.

Even if their was voter fraud on a huge scale its difficult to prove. We already had the numbers not match up in a few states. But realistically what's going to be done.

Im sure it happened. I am positive it won't help Trump.


----------



## moXJO (20 November 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Interesting that you have to pay for a recount.
> 
> Does that happen in Australia ?



Only certain states. US

If its close its automatic in most US states. Its also run by the states in the US. Which is why the rules are not as uniform. 

Australia has an independent body.


----------



## wayneL (20 November 2020)

@satanoperca 


```
01010100 01101000 01100001 01110100 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01101110 01101111 01110100 00100000 01110100 01110010 01110101 01100101 00101110 00100000 01001001 00100000 01101000 01100001 01110110 01100101 00100000 01100010 01100101 01100101 01101110 00100000 01110101 01110100 01110100 01100101 01110010 01101100 01111001 00100000 01100011 01101111 01101110 01110011 01101001 01110011 01110100 01100101 01101110 01110100 00101100 00100000 01101010 01110101 01110011 01110100 00100000 01100001 01110111 01100001 01110010 01100101 00100000 01101111 01100110 00100000 01100001 01101110 01111001 00100000 01110000 01101111 01110100 01100101 01101110 01110100 01101001 01100001 01101100 00100000 01101111 01110101 01110100 01100011 01101111 01101101 01100101 00101110
```

^^saving a bit of space so we don't p155 everyone else off


----------



## SirRumpole (20 November 2020)

wayneL said:


> 01010100 01101000 01100001 01110100 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01101110 01101111 01110100 00100000 01110100 01110010 01110101 01100101 00101110 00100000 01001001 00100000 01101000 01100001 01110110 01100101 00100000 01100010 01100101 01100101 01101110 00100000 01110101 01110100 01110100 01100101 01110010 01101100 01111001 00100000 01100011 01101111 01101110 01110011 01101001 01110011 01110100 01100101 01101110 01110100 00101100 00100000 01101010 01110101 01110011 01110100 00100000 01100001 01110111 01100001 01110010 01100101 00100000 01101111 01100110 00100000 01100001 01101110 01111001 00100000 01110000 01101111 01110100 01100101 01101110 01110100 01101001 01100001 01101100 00100000 01101111 01110101 01110100 01100011 01101111 01101101 01100101 00101110




I wouldn't say "utterly consistent" wayne .


----------



## wayneL (20 November 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> I wouldn't say "utterly consistent" wayne .



I have been, but, let's just focus on the topic instead of getting all ad hom, shall we Horace? 

Council for the God Emperor is getting fair dinkum.









						Sidney Powell: Trump Legal Team Will Sue Election Officials Who Certify Fraudulent Results for Biden
					

A zero tolerance policy for fraud.




					rumble.com


----------



## satanoperca (20 November 2020)

So riddle me this:
If the Dem could stack the votes, why did they only stack for presidency?
If they could commit fraud, then why not go for lower and senate seats as well?
I think if you applied the pub rule, Chump is full of s....t and still cannot provide any evidence except hot air.


----------



## wayneL (20 November 2020)

satanoperca said:


> So riddle me this:
> If the Dem could stack the votes, why did they only stack for presidency?
> If they could commit fraud, then why not go for lower and senate seats as well?
> I think if you applied the pub rule, Chump is full of s....t and still cannot provide any evidence except hot air.



Look, I don't know, you don't know, and probably 99.99% of people out there don't know what the hell is going on.

We might get some clues via some of the statements such as I have posted above, but that in no way adds any sort of certainty to anything.

One thing I am absolutely certain of is that whatever is wrong with their electoral system, it really must be fixed to ensure the integrity of all future elections.


----------



## bellenuit (20 November 2020)

*Presidential Transition Live Updates: Georgia Completes Full Recount, Reaffirming Biden’s Win*


*








						Presidential Transition Live Updates: Georgia Completes Full Recount, Reaffirming Biden’s Win
					

The Georgia secretary of state’s office confirmed the results after six days of hand counting. President Trump has forcefully inserted himself into vote-counting in Michigan, where he lost decisively, as his legal efforts in other states continue to fizzle.




					www.nytimes.com
				



*


----------



## SirRumpole (20 November 2020)

wayneL said:


> Look, I don't know, you don't know, and probably 99.99% of people out there don't know what the hell is going on.
> 
> We might get some clues via some of the statements such as I have posted above, but that in no way adds any sort of certainty to anything.
> 
> One thing I am absolutely certain of is that whatever is wrong with their electoral system, it really must be fixed to ensure the integrity of all future elections.




Assuming that there is something wrong with it, which is far from proven.

Whatever its faults, it has elected Republicans and Democrat Presidents in almost equal measure (14 Democrat, 19 Republican) for two hundred years.

For the Repubs to now claim fraud is laughable.


----------



## wayneL (20 November 2020)

It is clear there is no confidence in the system, compare the relative certitude that we have here in Australia and in other Western democracies.

There may be nothing in this or maybe not enough in this to swing the result, I don't know. but the fact that there are serious questions is not good enough in a Western democracy such as the United States.

I realise supporters of the democrats really want this result, but the fact remains that if elections are able to be rorted than they are able to be rorted by either side. 

That is not good.

In fact, that is very bad... very very bad.

The fact that there can be legitimate questions about a electoral fraud is also very bad and it will on this occasion, result in violence. I'm certain of that.

That is very very very bad.

Here's the thing, if you are supporters of democracy, then the result here is unimportant in the long-term, but the integrity of the result is extremely important, in the long-term.

While I am on record as hoping for a Trump victory and I don't resile from that, I am more interested in a fair result.


----------



## moXJO (20 November 2020)

bellenuit said:


> *Presidential Transition Live Updates: Georgia Completes Full Recount, Reaffirming Biden’s Win*
> 
> 
> *
> ...



Recounts don't mean a lot as per my post above. If he won because of mail ins then that is where the problem lies. The ballot envelopes with all the details get chucked. If official witnesses were standing over the counters then there shouldn't be a problem. But that wasn't always the case. 

That paper is biased sht as well.


----------



## PZ99 (20 November 2020)

Australia isn't immune from controversial election results. Even today I hear folks at work claiming the postal vote for SSM was either rigged / wrong and wouldn't have passed if it was a plebiscite etc.

Rudy Giuliani will accept the result eventually - but not before you buy him two beers


----------



## moXJO (20 November 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Assuming that there is something wrong with it, which is far from proven.
> 
> Whatever its faults, it has elected Republicans and Democrat Presidents in almost equal measure (14 Democrat, 19 Republican) for two hundred years.
> 
> For the Repubs to now claim fraud is laughable.



Mail ins of this magnitude were never a problem before. This election is a first of its kind that's the problem. Absentee votes have been around yes, not the mass voter mail ins we saw this election. 



I'm  not supporting the fraud angle. But many here don't understand what many are finding a problem with. 
Its a few key states. Not the safe red or blue states. Below is what is being accused of happening.

So, mail-in ballots come with a ballot and generally two envelopes. The outer envelope has all the details but gets thrown away after opening. The inner envelope is to protect privacy and integrity of vote. Ballot has who you vote for and zero details of who voted.

If official watchers are not there to document then you can end up with a bunch of ballots added to the tally. Or Donald duck can vote 50 times so long as its for the right party.

The other problem is the states dem or Republican employ the officials. You can get fanatics either side. If the official witnesses are being blocked from doing their duty its a problem. 

From what I know at least one Democrat official watcher has lodged a complaint. I'm not hugely up to speed on it all because Trump doesn't in my opinion have a way forward.


----------



## moXJO (20 November 2020)

PZ99 said:


> Australia isn't immune from controversial election results. Even today I hear folks at work claiming the postal vote for SSM was either rigged / wrong and wouldn't have passed if it was a plebiscite etc.
> 
> Rudy Giuliani will accept the result eventually - but not before you buy him two beers
> 
> View attachment 114987



Nah here's what we do. Only because I knew the guy that run.

Close election? 
Wellll, we run a high profile figure to draw votes away from the candidate. Eg against a lib we run someone that will steal votes on a similar, but loud platform. Then have them preference a favourable party to our side once it dribbles down.


----------



## basilio (20 November 2020)

They only reason why this ridiculous conversation about electoral fraud is running is because Donald Trump decided  from the beginning of his run that the only way he could lose  was by electoral fraud. He ran that line in 2016 but of course he won. So there couldn't have been fraud could there ?

In 2020 he sowed the seeds of "electoral fraud" from the start of his campaign. This was the "only way he was going to lose".  He watered those seeds at every opportunity  creating the mindset amongst supporters that "if he lost it was all rigged".

The election came. Trump (not  necessarily the Republican Party ) suffered a clear loss. The margins in all the seats are far too big to overcome with minor electoral vote issues.* So Donald  announced that this apparent loss meant the election was a fraud and  demanded that his followers find the evidence that would back up this new reality*. Naturally every true Trump supporter found/created any  possible story that could undermine the results. Dead voters, missing ballots, found ballots, computers that would switch votes - whatever it took.

Most of these stories have been identified as completely false. To date there has been no evidence for widespread  fraud of the sort that could impact  the current  voter margins.

What I found interesting was the Georgian Secretary of State response to the pressure from Trump to roll over on the votes.

* 'Integrity still matters': the unlikely Republican standing up to Trump's voter fraud lies *
The Georgia secretary of state tells the Guardian he’s received death threats for pushing back against the president’s claims

...“I’m a conservative Republican. Yes, I wanted President Trump to win. But as secretary of state we have to do our job,” he said in an interview with the Guardian. “I’m gonna walk that fine, straight, line with integrity. I think that integrity still matters.”

He added there were 24,000 Republicans who voted by mail in Georgia’s primary, but did not turn out to vote in November. Those voters didn’t vote again in November, Raffensperger suggested, because Trump railed against voting by mail.

“Voters listened to the president, they didn’t show up,” he said. “That would have been a 10,000 person cushion that President Trump would have had if those folks would have come back out. They just stayed at home.”

“Democrats really strongly pushed it,” he added. “I hope that, as a Republican, our party becomes very active.








						'Integrity still matters': the unlikely Republican standing up to Trump's voter fraud lies
					

The Georgia secretary of state tells the Guardian he’s received death threats for pushing back against the president’s claims




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## basilio (20 November 2020)

The Death of Satire.  Why it is impossible to make satirical observations about politicians whose absurdities make satire meaningless.
















						Along with everything else, Trump has killed satire as well | First Dog on the Moon
					

What is that stuff running down Rudy Giuliani’s face? Is it hair dye? Has his brain-coal been liquefied by all the lies?




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## basilio (21 November 2020)

Donald Trump has invited Michigan  Republicans leaders to the White House to see if they will overturn the electoral results and install Trump supporters in the electoral college.   In 2016 Trump won Michigan by 10,700 votes.  He lost this election by 153,000 votes.
Breathtaking treason..


----------



## basilio (21 November 2020)

This video shows the insanity that is driving Trump supporters to declare that their President won in a landslide  with 410 electoral votes and that the election was stolen.

It is a total fabrication. Yet it is  reported as news  by the OAN (One America Network) which Trump is now promoting as the new source of information for his followers.



---------------------------------------------------------------
Fact checking this story








						U.S. Army Didn't Seize Election Servers in Germany - FactCheck.org
					

A congressman and conservative news outlets are spreading the baseless claim that the U.S. Army seized an election software company's server in Frankfurt, Germany, that could supposedly prove there was fraud in the 2020 election. There was no such seizure -- and the company doesn't even have a...




					www.factcheck.org


----------



## DB008 (21 November 2020)

Trump will stay in

Voter Fraud evidence will be laid out shortly.

*"Massive Election Fraud" is Provable Says Trump Campaign*



​
The left is clutching at straws...

.


----------



## moXJO (21 November 2020)

DB008 said:


> Trump will stay in
> 
> Voter Fraud evidence will be laid out shortly.
> 
> ...




I don't think they will find enough evidence or votes to change it. Saying "Fraud" is the easy part. Proving it would be difficult. In fact I would say near impossible.

Dominion software is a whole other kettle of fish. I hope it is exposed completely along with those linked to it.
But I still don't think there is enough to change any results. I'm not sure that everything she said in the video is true either.


----------



## moXJO (21 November 2020)

Slopes on dominion:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/eric-coomer-dominion-trump/

That's the antifa-dominion link accusation. Surely that can be quickly verified or not by law enforcement.

https://fair.org/home/corporate-media-condone-destruction-of-venezuelas-voting-machines/
This popped up thought it was funny.
So Smartmatic apparently owns these machines on further investigation. But I don't know how Smartmatic and dominion are linked.

Another pre election link about smartmatic:
https://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/29/washington/29ballot.html


All these links are pre election. I'm not seeing any link between dominion and Smartmatic though the search engine results are tainted now accusations have been made. I'm looking at 2020 June or previous results.

I'm aware of every news outlet pointing out that its "Lies".

But if Smartmatic and dominion get linked then the election will blow up. 

That's still a big maybe. In my mind it's possible all these theories are coming out to change votes and keep their base engaged two years from now.


----------



## DB008 (21 November 2020)

The attorney in the press conference, Sidney Powell, has never taken on a case she can't win in a court room.

I guess the big positive that is going to come out of all this, is that voting will be a lot more transparent in the future. 

Dominion (Smartmatic) are already doing a runner.


----------



## moXJO (21 November 2020)

Dug this link up. 
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_620084?guccounter=1

Story from a leftist paper pre 2020 published.


"Intellectual Property’ of voting systems still owned by firm linked to Venezuelan President, despite press statement to the contrary"


I didn't read through it. Just thought it was interesting that a few of these allegations had been round for a while.

The other thing of interest is that a lot seems to be getting scrubbed off the net.
I had to use ghostery browser (which is great by the way. Pre google level browsing). Results get flooded by mainstream news or ads otherwise.


----------



## bellenuit (21 November 2020)

I have yet to see any evidence of wide scale or even minor corruption of the voting system. Even the governments own director of the agency   in charge of the  election stated that it was an extremely secure election.

So supposing that there was a means of altering votes as is now claimed. Why was it never raised as an issue prior to the election and why has Trump and the GOP who controlled most of the election processes during his presidency done nothing to shore up any weaknesses?

As far as I can see, they only things they have ever tried to do is to invent means to disenfranchise those they know that were likely to vote Democrats.


----------



## basilio (21 November 2020)

I did check out some of those affidavits alleging all sorts of  "unbelievable" voting patterns.

Indeed they were unbelievable  because one of the drop kicks who produced this stuff manged to mix up his States.
And Giuliani didn't have the brains to identify this **** up.  Just ate it up and ran with it.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/e...mistake_n_5fb84237c5b680f7c38baebc?ri18n=true


----------



## basilio (21 November 2020)

This video also came up of another person who alleged irregularities in Michigan elections.  Listen to it and you can understand why the Judge threw her claim out of court as simply not credible.

After this exercise Giuliani decided he didn't want to identify the people making the affidavits.  Good  choice. .


----------



## wayneL (21 November 2020)

bellenuit said:


> I have yet to see any evidence of wide scale or even minor corruption of the voting system. Even the governments own director of the agency   in charge of the  election stated that it was an extremely secure election.
> 
> So supposing that there was a means of altering votes as is now claimed. Why was it never raised as an issue prior to the election and why has Trump and the GOP who controlled most of the election processes during his presidency done nothing to shore up any weaknesses?
> 
> As far as I can see, they only things they have ever tried to do is to invent means to disenfranchise those they know that were likely to vote Democrats.



I never realised you were privy to such information bellanuit.

I have never seen any evidence that Ivan milat was a mass murderer... But that damned pesky and inconvenient prosecutor dredged up something up from somewhere


----------



## bellenuit (22 November 2020)

wayneL said:


> I never realised you were privy to such information bellanuit.
> 
> I have never seen any evidence that Ivan milat was a mass murderer... But that damned pesky and inconvenient prosecutor dredged up something up from somewhere




Silly comparison. They have had ample opportunity to show the evidence and have always failed to produce anything of consequence. Unlike Milat where there wasn't anyone in authority vouching for his innocence, in the case of the election, not only has the director responsible for overseeing the election (a Trump appointee), but those responsible at a state level for the states in dispute have also vouched for the accuracy of their data.

Even Tucker Carlson of Fox found the White House lawyer who is at the forefront of the claims completely unwilling to back up her claims and he also stated that other white house personnel have had the same silence from her. A huge difference from the Milat case.

They won't make their claims of fraud in front of a judge because they know that would be a serious offence if proven to be made up. They simply want to throw dirt around to throw doubt on the legitimacy of Biden's presidency. It too will fade like the Hunter Biden allegations.

Jump to the 2:40 mark if you find it difficult, like most sane people do, to listen to the hypocritical s**** he dishes up in the pre-amble


----------



## Macquack (22 November 2020)

DB008 said:


> Trump will stay in
> 
> Voter Fraud evidence will be laid out shortly.
> ​The left is clutching at straws...



The only ones "clutching at straws" is Trump and his true believers.


----------



## moXJO (22 November 2020)

bellenuit said:


> Silly comparison. They have had ample opportunity to show the evidence and have always failed to produce anything of consequence. Unlike Milat where there wasn't anyone in authority vouching for his innocence, in the case of the election, not only has the director responsible for overseeing the election (a Trump appointee), but those responsible at a state level for the states in dispute have also vouched for the accuracy of their data.
> 
> Even Tucker Carlson of Fox found the White House lawyer who is at the forefront of the claims completely unwilling to back up her claims and he also stated that other white house personnel have had the same silence from her. A huge difference from the Milat case.
> 
> ...




Comments that start around the 7 minute mark are good.


----------



## bellenuit (22 November 2020)

Macquack said:


> The only ones "clutching at straws" is Trump and his true believers.




Yes, and it is now official.















						Judge Dismisses Trump Lawsuit Seeking to Delay Certification in Pennsylvania (Published 2020)
					

In a scathing order, a federal judge rejected the Trump campaign’s claim of widespread improprieties with mail-in ballots, removing a major legal hurdle to certifying Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s victory there.




					www.nytimes.com


----------



## basilio (22 November 2020)

Interesting to check out Judge Branns background. Very centrist. Worked for the Republican Party. Active in The Federalist Society which has the more conservative legal views.








						Matthew W. Brann - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## basilio (22 November 2020)

Perhaps we might yet see Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani in court, on oath, explaining and defending their views on  the corruption of the voting systems in Michigan.   That will be worth seeing..









						Detroit voters sue Trump over unsubstantiated claims of voter fraud
					

Voters in the US city of Detroit file a federal lawsuit accusing President Donald Trump and his campaign of breaching the Voting Rights Act by falsely claiming voter fraud and trying to overturn election results in Michigan.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## bellenuit (22 November 2020)

basilio said:


> Interesting to check out Judge Branns background. Very centrist. Worked for the Republican Party. Active in The Federalist Society which has the more conservative legal views.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I would think any judge with even the slightest integrity would be foolish to countenance the farce that the Trump legal team is putting forward. I would suspect that many of the long established judges with a republican leaning would be just as disgusted with the Trump antics as everyone else.

I even think Supreme Court judge Amy Coney Barrett may turn out to be a surprise in some ways. She certainly will push a conservative viewpoint on most social issues, but I think it is unlikely that she will be part of the cavalry that comes to rescue Trump, should any of his lawsuits get to the Supreme Court. Why would a young up and coming judge with a huge future ahead of her allow her career to be permanently tainted by making an unwarranted and politically motivated decision to find in favour of Trump when the facts might point the opposite way. By siding with the facts rather than Trump, she kills two birds with the one stone. She partly cleanses the stain of how she was appointed and by ensuring Trump is out of the White House, she gets a bogey off her back that would come calling time and again for special favours.


----------



## satanoperca (22 November 2020)

China must be laughing their arses off, release a virus, destabilize the only country bigger enough (weapons) that spouts democracy, turn the country into a laughing joke and the only thing that had to play on was the ego of one man, the rest just followed.

*Brilliant.*

All you Chump supports, just provide some evidence of voter fraud outside of statistical anomalies.

The simple fact was a virus is running rampant across the USA, those that we conscious of it, decided to mail in their votes, that simple. That was the only statistical anomaly that occurred during this election and Chump man knows it.

*Where is the evidence of widespread fraud?*

Is it the same as Chump man saying we will have a vaccine within weeks and it has been months? Again no proof or credibility of anything he says.

*Suckers.*


----------



## basilio (22 November 2020)

Politico offers a detailed description of Judge Bunns judgement against the Trump arguments.
Absolute dogs breakfast and I can't see any other judge giving another interpretation.
The case was also a circus..









						‘This is simply not how the Constitution works’: Federal judge eviscerates Trump lawsuit
					

The judge issued a withering opinion in his dismissal of the suit that Rudy Giuliani turned up to argue in a small Pennsylvania city this week.




					www.politico.com


----------



## satanoperca (22 November 2020)

basilio said:


> Politico offers a detailed description of Judge Bunns judgement against the Trump arguments.
> Absolute dogs breakfast and I can't see any other judge giving another interpretation.
> The case was also a circus..
> 
> ...




 Makes you laugh!

*Where is the evidence of widespread fraud?*


----------



## cynic (22 November 2020)

The following opinion piece, purports (amongst other things) to offer excerpts from a body of affidavits.
It seems to me that those affidavits, could be reasonably viewed as evidence, supportive of claims, to either, a significant and widespread level of fraud, or the potential for perpetration of same!
https://joannenova.com.au/2020/11/s...e-that-rigs-elections-in-up-to-28-usa-states/
Surely this would merit some investigation given the enormity of the allegations being made!!


----------



## satanoperca (22 November 2020)

Yes the allegations are epic, but the evidence so far does not seem to be.

Why would you rig an election for a president when you need the senate and lower house?


----------



## cynic (22 November 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Yes the allegations are epic, but the evidence so far does not seem to be.
> 
> Why would you rig an election for a president when you need the senate and lower house?




This may be but a single step in a more elaborate design!
I can but speculate on what  might happen next (in the event that the allegations turn out to be correct).

I suggest that we watch what happens during Biden's first term (presuming Trump fails to overturn the election outcome) and, provided my suspicions prove to be correct, we will likely discover the answer to this question!


----------



## Knobby22 (22 November 2020)

cynic said:


> This may be but a single step in a more elaborate design!
> I can but speculate on what  might happen next (in the event that the allegations turn out to be correct).
> 
> I suggest that we watch what happens during Biden's first term (presuming Trump fails to overturn the election outcome) and, provided my suspicions prove to be correct, we will likely discover the answer to this question!



I read that approximately 50% of Republicans believe Trump is telling the truth about massive fraud and conversely 50% don't.  Probably lines up similar at ASF.


----------



## moXJO (23 November 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> I read that approximately 50% of Republicans believe Trump is telling the truth about massive fraud and conversely 50% don't.  Probably lines up similar at ASF.



Its easy to understand why such a high percentage do. The Trump thread was one long list of baseless accusations. There have been a huge amount of untrue media statements that even I could pull apart in 5 minutes. 
Then you have the war on conservatives through multiple media's. 

Everyone here has fallen for bs propaganda over the last four years., both sides. 
And the 50% that are suss is why everything must be checked to ensure that it was legit.


----------



## bellenuit (23 November 2020)

moXJO said:


> The Trump thread was one long list of baseless accusations. There have been a huge amount of untrue media statements that even I could pull apart in 5 minutes.




I think not. Let's wait and see on how baseless they are.


----------



## basilio (23 November 2020)

I have had a go at Dutchie for flogging  some satire from Babylon Bee.

Nonetheless I thought this piece of work on Trump and the Fraudulent votes  was out there... I'm a bit concerned however that this is being treated as news rather than satire by 50million Trump supporters.

*Trump Appears To Doubting Tucker And Lets Him Touch The Fraudulent Ballots Himself *

NEW YORK, NY—Tucker Carlson waited in the upper room with the other conservatives. They were huddled together, sad and alone at the loss of their glorious leader Trump. Just then, a panting Rudy Guiliani burst through the door. "Trump has evidence! I've seen it myself!"

The other disciples of Trump marveled at this. But Carlson doubted. "I will not believe until I've touched the ballots myself, until I've seen the evidence with my own eyes."

Then, something miraculous happened: Trump appeared, though Guiliani had locked the door behind him.

"Place your fingers in the punch holes, my child," Trump said tenderly to Carlson. The Fox News host reached out and touched the ballots cast fraudulently for Biden, feeling the punch marks and running his fingers along the forged signatures.

"My lord and my president!" Tucker cried, falling to his knees.

Trump smiled and patted Carlson on the head. "You have seen the evidence and believed, but* blessed are those who have believed the election was rigged without seeing any evidence. They are tremendous people, the best, really."*








						Trump Appears To Doubting Tucker And Lets Him Touch The Fraudulent Ballots Himself
					

NEW YORK, NY - Tucker Carlson waited in the upper room with the other conservatives. They were huddled together, sad and alone at the loss of their glorious leader Trump. Just then, a panting Rudy Guiliani burst through the door. 'Trump has evidence! I've seen it myself!'The other disciples of...




					babylonbee.com


----------



## moXJO (23 November 2020)

bellenuit said:


> I think not. Let's wait and see on how baseless they are.




Sandmann had nothing to do with Trump. And he sued
Ford was so full of sht her friends didn't even back her statements.

Russian collusion was stretched to the brink. All the US convictions were perjury traps.

"Very fine people" hoax.

I mean its so long that its ridiculous. None of that is getting proven. The greater concern is that people just ignore it ever happened. Or try to reason it off. So I wouldn't be pointing fingers at cult like behaviour when you turn a blind eye to your own.


----------



## satanoperca (23 November 2020)

DB008 said:


> The attorney in the press conference, Sidney Powell, has never taken on a case she can't win in a court room.
> 
> I guess the big positive that is going to come out of all this, is that voting will be a lot more transparent in the future.
> 
> Dominion (Smartmatic) are already doing a runner.



She will not be winning this one, dumb within a week. Go Chump! 😨


----------



## bellenuit (23 November 2020)

satanoperca said:


> She will not be winning this one, dumb within a week. Go Chump! 😨




Did you mean "dumped within a week". Make that dumped already!


----------



## satanoperca (23 November 2020)

Chump man can select them well!

In with the new out with the old, every week or so. Great people manager he is.


----------



## moXJO (23 November 2020)

This guys twitter is a pretty good take of a few election issues. Leans right but doesn't think there was the widespread election fraud to what was claimed. A lot more reality based stuff then some of the claims thrown around.

Shows a few of the reforms made since the election to protect the vote.


----------



## PZ99 (24 November 2020)

I like the Joe Biden line of "The adults are back in charge"... https://newsbbt.com/the-adults-are-back-in-charge-as-joe-biden-adds-experienced-leaders-to-cabinet/

An incoming Australia Prime minister used those same words and he lasted about two years yeah ?

Fits nicely the time frame for Biden to follow suit with a handover to Harris and bequeath another two terms of presidency after that...

Ya know it make sense


----------



## wayneL (24 November 2020)

PZ99 said:


> I like the Joe Biden line of "The adults are back in charge"... https://newsbbt.com/the-adults-are-back-in-charge-as-joe-biden-adds-experienced-leaders-to-cabinet/
> 
> An incoming Australia Prime minister used those same words and he lasted about two years yeah ?
> 
> ...



I've made the same point before, but I guess it will depend on whether they still have Dominion then


----------



## PZ99 (24 November 2020)

wayneL said:


> I've made the same point before, but I guess it will depend on whether they still have Dominion then



Fair enough - probably didn't see it as it's a bit hard to sort the gist from the jest around here these days


----------



## basilio (24 November 2020)

Donald Trumps concession speech..  (It may be getting closer..)


----------



## basilio (24 November 2020)

This article offers some insights into "reality" . Well worth checking out particularly when it starts to discuss people dying from COVID who have refused to believe it was real.









						Like the dye running down Rudy Giuliani's face, Trump's chances of snatching victory appear to be dissolving
					

In a world where falsehoods come from the top and are amplified louder and louder all the way down, we all need to focus on evidence, rather than unsubstantiated bluster. Because right now it's not just democracy in danger, but reality itself, writes North America bureau chief David Lipson.




					www.abc.net.au


----------



## bellenuit (24 November 2020)

basilio said:


> Donald Trumps concession speech..  (It may be getting closer..)




Already here I think


----------



## bellenuit (24 November 2020)

Transition Highlights: Trump Authorizes Administration to Begin Working With Biden on Transition (Published 2020)
					

Michigan certified its election results. President-elect Joe Biden is expected to announce his picks for key roles in his cabinet and administration, some of whom would make history. Senator Dianne Feinstein said she would relinquish the top Democratic spot on the Judiciary Committee next year.




					www.nytimes.com


----------



## basilio (25 November 2020)

Biden may have won Presidency but the decline in House seats for Democrats indicates  some deeper changes to US politics.
This analysis looks at 10 counties which had big impact on the overall results. 









						The 10 swing state counties that tell the story of the 2020 election | Ben Davis
					

Results of this election and the changes from past elections say an enormous amount about where the country is and is going




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## basilio (25 November 2020)

Another analysis of the election results indicates Trump lost many Republican voters - largely in the college educated  band. 
These voters didn't vote Democrat down the ticket and their continued support for Republican candidates in the House was one of the reasons Congress has more Republician members.

IMV this reflects the impact of The Lincoln project and other similar Republican anti Trump groups.









						How Trump’s presidency turned off some Republicans – a visual guide
					

As our maps and charts show, Trump not only lost to Joe Biden – he lost to other Republicans on the ballot




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## dutchie (25 November 2020)

satanoperca said:


> *Where is the evidence of widespread fraud?*


----------



## satanoperca (25 November 2020)

dutchie said:


>




Oh please, you are what is wrong in this world.

Where did the ignore (dick...ds) button go.


----------



## basilio (25 November 2020)

satanoperca said:


> Oh please, you are what is wrong in this world.
> 
> Where did the ignore (dick...ds) button go.




Who needs evidence when you find a deceptively  edited video produced by the newly elected member for QAnon ? (How special is that in 2020.)
This piece of work did the rounds across all the usual suspects from  Trump downwards.

Check out what said *in full *and how it was edited to completely  change the meaning of what Joe Biden was saying.

*No, Biden did not brag about committing voter fraud - The ...*
https://www.washingtonpost.com › politics › 2020/11/04

Nov 4, 2020 — A viral video was edited to make it appear as if former vice president _Biden_ is admitting to voter _fraud_, when he was actually addressing his ...
Missing: dems ‎| Must include: dems










						Did Biden 'Admit' to Voter Fraud?
					

Was the Democratic U.S. presidential nominee caught red-handed confessing to large-scale voter fraud less than two weeks before Election Day? Hardly.




					www.snopes.com


----------



## dutchie (25 November 2020)

basilio said:


> Who needs evidence when you find a deceptively  edited video produced by the newly elected member for QAnon ? (How special is that in 2020.)
> This piece of work did the rounds across all the usual suspects from  Trump downwards.
> 
> Check out what said *in full *and how it was edited to completely  change the meaning of what Joe Biden was saying.
> ...




What he said in the McEnany video was not edited.


----------

