# I think the media should be held to account... what do you think?



## MovingAverage (20 March 2020)

I think we all know that we live in very troubling times, but personally I am completely over the outrageous and sensationalist headlines being trotted by our poor excuses for what is passed off as media. I mean even the ABC are running trashy sensationalist headlines. I for one would love to see the government slap the media about and pull them into line with their irresponsible reporting. Headlines such as this being run in our "respected" national broadcaster (I use that term very easily) do absolutely nothing for meaningful public discourse and I think it is time the media was held to account. What do you think?


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## Frankieplus (20 March 2020)

MovingAverage said:


> I think we all know that we live in very troubling times, but personally I am completely over the outrageous and sensationalist headlines being trotted by our poor excuses for what is passed off as media.
> View attachment 101533




I was kind of in a similar mindset as you up until 30 minutes ago when I read this:
https://bit.ly/2IZ5lo3

And watched this:
https://bit.ly/3dc4kqK

The media exaggerate and have caused a lot of panic, but I think this situation has the potential to be more of a problem than I anticipated.

-Frank


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## JJADV (20 March 2020)

Just freshening not to have to wade through all the over hyped climate change outrage to get to a worthwhile article.. I guess I will think the same about the China Virus panic stories soon enough..


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## MovingAverage (20 March 2020)

JJADV said:


> Just freshening not to have to wade through all the over hyped climate change outrage to get to a worthwhile article.. I guess I will think the same about the China Virus panic stories soon enough..



I'm with you on the climate change


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## MovingAverage (20 March 2020)

Frankieplus said:


> I was kind of in a similar mindset as you up until 30 minutes ago when I read this:
> https://bit.ly/2IZ5lo3
> 
> And watched this:
> ...



Thanks for the links Frank. They make for an interesting read. I think you have hit the nail on the head when it comes to my frustration with the media "The media exaggerate and have caused a lot of panic". My personal belief is that we wouldn't see the pack stupidity that we've been seeing with people stripping supermarkets bare if it wasn't for the continual media reporting of panic buying. I mean, it is of no public good for for the media to continually report on panic buying. To do so serves absolutely no public good.


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## Smurf1976 (20 March 2020)

My view is that the full facts should be reported no matter how unpleasant they may be. Ignorance might be bliss but it ends in unnecessary misery.

Where uncertainty exists and plausible scenarios are being discussed, it should be made clear to the reader that what they are reading is published in good faith to inform people of the situation but that the ultimate outcome remains uncertain.

Outright hype and nonsense is however most unhelpful and should be strongly discouraged.

As a more familiar example:

Fact: There’s a large fire burning which is not controlled.

Speculation: Based on the weather forecast this fire may threaten towns x, y and z over the coming days. All residents should monitor the situation and be ready to take appropriate action.

Hype: Towns x, y and z are all about to be destroyed and everyone is dead.

Etc.


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## MovingAverage (20 March 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> My view is that the full facts should be reported no matter how unpleasant they may be. Ignorance might be bliss but it ends in unnecessary misery.
> 
> Where uncertainty exists and plausible scenarios are being discussed, it should be made clear to the reader that what they are reading is published in good faith to inform people of the situation but that the ultimate outcome remains uncertain.
> 
> ...



Couldn't agree more. Do you think there is public good to come from reporting on panic buying? Panic buying is a fact but reporting it serves what purpose?


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## IFocus (20 March 2020)

To be honest I don't think the media have been aggressive enough often just politician mouth pieces rather than seriously reporting the consequences of being to late for exampl.

Did you know going to lock down 1 day to late think Wu Han changes the infection rate by 40%.


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## qldfrog (20 March 2020)

Exactly while the reporting is maybe hyped our politicians reaction is more than lame, criminal...


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## Dona Ferentes (20 March 2020)

In another life, media sought wife and myself out for comment; very specific, but lasted a year or 3. This was a few decades ago

Key takeout: *A journalist is someone who seeks to confirm their own prejudices.*


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## rederob (20 March 2020)

MovingAverage said:


> I think we all know that we live in very troubling times, but personally I am completely over the outrageous and sensationalist headlines being trotted by our poor excuses for what is passed off as media. I mean even the ABC are running trashy sensationalist headlines. I for one would love to see the government slap the media about and pull them into line with their irresponsible reporting. Headlines such as this being run in our "respected" national broadcaster (I use that term very easily) do absolutely nothing for meaningful public discourse and I think it is time the media was held to account. What do you think?
> View attachment 101533



I don't know where you go for all your news but if you think that tens of thousands being hospitalised in a matter of months in Wuhan, and needing to be kept separate from other patients is sensationalisation, then we are living in different universes.  And if you think that is a misjudgement, then look at Italy which now has a greater death toll.
Our media have been way too soft.
We appear to have learned nothing from what China did, until push came to shove, and only then did the government finally make some decisions that mitigated spread.
I had to get on to Youtube to discover what worked and why because our media live in their own importance, except for the specials on ABC radio I have tune in to.  Comparing a few minutes on the TV news to an hour on radio is cheese and chalk.
As to your linked headlines, they are actually spot on.
A bit off topic, but in another thread an ASF poster claiming to have "genetics" expertise claimed he knew that COVID-19 was "engineered" so I linked the scientific evidence that showed he was not too good at what he believed was his area of expertise.
There is a thing called "evidence" and it's based on "facts."  Your other comments in this thread suggest you don't know where these exist.


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## MovingAverage (20 March 2020)

rederob said:


> I don't know where you go for all your news but if you think that tens of thousands being hospitalised in a matter of months in Wuhan, and needing to be kept separate from other patients is sensationalisation, then we are living in different universes.



I don't ever recall suggesting that reporting on the issues you mention was irresponsible journalism and I am certainly not suggesting the media stop reporting serious facts. But I do have a serious issues with the media's obsession on reporting around the clock on sensationalizing some of the shitty characteristics of human nature that are now being displayed by many. For example, what good comes from the constant media reporting on panic buying? Here is something for you to give some serious thought to, in another thread I asked a genuine question as to what positive developments were happening around the world to help us in the fight against Corona and another ASFer gave a great summary of some of the real developments around the world that have been advancing us against Corona...do you see any of that being reported by our shitty media outlets...nope, they are more interested in constantly reinforcing the major economic implications such as we'll all be visiting centrelink...really, why is that crap news? And they're very happy to continue reporting on the fact that supermarkets are being stripped bare. That crap serves no purpose whatsoever


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## rederob (20 March 2020)

MovingAverage said:


> For example, what good comes from the constant media reporting on panic buying?



Governments have lifted restrictions on delivery hours.
Stores have set aside a time for older Australians to have a go.


MovingAverage said:


> ...another ASFer gave a great summary of some of the real developments around the world that have been advancing us against Corona...do you see any of that being reported by our shitty media outlets...nope...



Where I go for news that's exactly what I hear.


MovingAverage said:


> ... they are more interested in constantly reinforcing the major economic implications such as we'll all be visiting centrelink...really, why is that crap news?



People on Newstart (as of today it's the JobSeeker Payment) are not able to support themselves financially, so the increasing numbers of unemployed will become a social and economic burden.  Add that to business closures.  It's not rocket surgery.


MovingAverage said:


> ... happy to continue reporting on the fact that supermarkets are being stripped bare. That crap serves no purpose whatsoever



It helps me work out whether or not it's worth getting up early and heading to shops!
It also tells me that there are a lot of people who are not particularly concerned about others who may be in more need and, despite being told not to hoard, they keep at it.
That's who we are now.
Are you proud?


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## MovingAverage (20 March 2020)

rederob said:


> Are you proud?




definitely not! but you have given me some insight into why the media report the rubbish they do.


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## Tumbarumba (20 March 2020)

MovingAverage said:


> Couldn't agree more. Do you think there is public good to come from reporting on panic buying? Panic buying is a fact but reporting it serves what purpose?



I agree with you and Competent Government should be aware of what is happening in the world without having to read it in sensational media reports.
Here’s upcoming proof, imo. At present there is no panic to withdraw cash from banks,just wait for the panic when the media start to (needlessly) hype it up.


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## JJADV (20 March 2020)

qldfrog said:


> Exactly while the reporting is maybe hyped our politicians reaction is more than lame, criminal...



Criminal.. really.. what planet are you on.. They walk a fine line of controlling the hysteria of the plebs, controlling the situation and trying to have an economy on the other sine.. what would you do Einstein??


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## MovingAverage (20 March 2020)

Seriously


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## MovingAverage (20 March 2020)

Tumbarumba said:


> I agree with you and Competent Government should be aware of what is happening in the world without having to read it in sensational media reports.
> Here’s upcoming proof, imo. At present there is no panic to withdraw cash from banks,just wait for the panic when the media start to (needlessly) hype it up.




I have no doubt that the media is circling like vultures just waiting for the first bank to make the slightest hint regarding liquidity and then boom...the media will run headlines regarding the banking system collapsing. That’s sure to get people scrambling to withdraw their money.


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## SirRumpole (20 March 2020)

JJADV said:


> Criminal.. really.. what planet are you on.. They walk a fine line of controlling the hysteria of the plebs, controlling the situation and trying to have an economy on the other sine.. what would you do Einstein??




That's my view too mainly. 

Coming back to the headline "People who have never known themselves to be out of work face Centrelink, PM warns".

Did he actually say that ? I can't find it on his press conferences. If it's just a journalist's paraphrasing of Morrison's remarks then I think it's dishonest. Journo's should directly quote what is actually said.


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## sptrawler (20 March 2020)

IFocus said:


> To be honest I don't think the media have been aggressive enough often just politician mouth pieces rather than seriously reporting the consequences of being to late for exampl.
> 
> Did you know going to lock down 1 day to late think Wu Han changes the infection rate by 40%.



Unfortuntely I think the media have made it a circus, as usual, rather than take their facts from the source of Government information.
It doesnt make for sensational gossip IMO.


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## MovingAverage (20 March 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> That's my view too mainly.
> 
> Coming back to the headline "People who have never known themselves to be out of work face Centrelink, PM warns".
> 
> Did he actually say that ? I can't find it on his press conferences. If it's just a journalist's paraphrasing of Morrison's remarks then I think it's dishonest. Journo's should directly quote what is actually said.



That’s a very good point and the reason I made this post. When I read that headline I did some digging to find out if he actually said that and I too can’t find anything to suggest that is what he said.


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## sptrawler (20 March 2020)

The media will never be held to account, all they have to do is bag the coalition when they are in office and the labor supporters cheer.
Then when Labor get in, bag the Labor Government and coalition supporters cheer.
It is a no loose recipe.
Muppets cheering on muppets, the very reason I dont watch news, current affairs or any other crap they throw up.
The media is never wrong, they just change sides as required.


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## Smurf1976 (20 March 2020)

I'm no media guru but I've been present (off screen) at various press conferences regarding other matters and I've observed a few things.

One is that multiple media organisations can all be present at the same press conference and turn it into a different story. So you've got the same CEO or the same minister speaking but they manage to present it very differently on TV. I used to record every station's news purely to see what they put to air and compare them.

Most extreme example I've seen is footage of the minister speaking that day being run but the story as read by the journalist was about a completely different subject, not even the same industry and not a single word said in regard to what the minister was actually speaking about at the time. Also not unknown that the journalists ask questions which have absolutely nothing to do with the subject.

Newspapers routinely print corporate press releases word for word by the way. It's to the point that the more politically and media savvy companies are pretty good at wording them in such a way that no media organisation will reject it. So it gets on the websites and in print exactly as it was written and is reported as fact with no checking on the part of the media organisation who runs the story.

What you're reading in that situation was initially written by a run of the mill public servant, engineer, middle manager or whoever. They send it to the in house media expert who tweaks it to make sure it'll be published word for word. Then it goes back to the technical expert to confirm that it still says what it's supposed to say. If all good then it goes in the queue for release. Only exception is if it's a sensitive subject then it might go via senior management for sign off.

Queue for release - depending on what it says will affect when it goes out. Good news will avoid all known major news stories. So avoid political announcements, avoid anything from the Reserve Bank about interest rates, avoid anything about major events and so on. Put it out when it looks to be clear thus increasing the chances of getting front page or at least page 3. It's not unknown for something to be pulled at the last minute if a major story emerges that would grab the attention and front page. 

If it's bad news then it needs to be as short and to the point as possible and will be released to coincide with something else major. Politics, economics, whatever. Aim to get it buried on page 20. Only reason to be saying it at all is to avoid accusations of keeping things hidden. Christmas, state or federal budget, any sort of controversy, any sort of natural disaster, any public holiday, AFL grand final - anything like that just bury it amidst other things if possible when nobody's paying attention. This corona virus would be ideal for that.

I wouldn't say any of that is terribly wrong, just be aware that the media is often a tool being worked by others for whatever reason. If the media are in a supermarket, office, factory or whatever then always remember they are there because the supermarket etc called them. They didn't just turn up of their own accord. Whoever called them is either announcing good news that they want everyone to hear for the benefit of those announcing it, they are saying something bad and ticking a box because some rule says they have to say it publicly, or they are trying to use the media to push some agenda.


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## sptrawler (20 March 2020)

It is amazing how the media love chaos, but eventually everyone else gets sick of it.
Take for example W.A, the Government was bagged endlessly for spending billions on hospitals

Despite the fact  W.A only had an antiquated Royal Perth hospital, which for 30 years had been over capacity, people were on strechers in the corridors.
When a new hospital was built, a new childrens hospital was built, two outer hub hospitals were built.
The Government was $hat on from a great height, in the current situation if it hadnt been done, W.A would be in a World of $hit.
Does the media appologies, what? As if.
The media actually makes me physically ill, but they are a necassary evil IMO.
Just my opinion


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## qldfrog (20 March 2020)

JJADV said:


> Criminal.. really.. what planet are you on.. They walk a fine line of controlling the hysteria of the plebs, controlling the situation and trying to have an economy on the other sine.. what would you do Einstein??



Simply follow the lesson from italy, lockdown now,
No need to be Einstein , just not a dimwit.
An example: holding a ******* triathlon in Mooloolaba last weekend with thousand of people
Pretending to follow Singapore but wo the mask wearing, the discipline and testing there
Our model is Italy, not South Korea
You will see who is Einstein in 3 weeks.pray not to have any love one above 50 or any sickness
So criminal yes
This absence of proper decision is killing hundreds if not thousands
Let's hope for a bit of karma here for those considering themselves above the plebs....
These arrogant bastards got a nice lessons in Italy actually...virus is classless


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## Smurf1976 (20 March 2020)

If there's any good to come from all this drama, a friend tells me that they've used the issue to get the kids interested in geography and to understand what's going on.

Apparently various "scare" type rumours have gone around at the school, kids telling other kids that everyone's going to die and so on. So in this case the parents have taken it into their own hands to educate their kids (primary school age) as to the facts that the risk to any individual is very low so long as we all take precautions.

They're then using that to educate them on other things. Eg they've pointed to the Mayor of London asking people to avoid unnecessary travel. That then prompts the questions of where is London? How many people live there? In what country is it located? Why do they have trains running in tunnels underground? And so on. 

So they're using it as a trigger to educate the kids about geography and different parts of the world given that schools seem somewhat mediocre on that these days.


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## jbocker (21 March 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> If there's any good to come from all this drama, a friend tells me that they've used the issue to get the kids interested in geography and to understand what's going on.
> 
> Apparently various "scare" type rumours have gone around at the school, kids telling other kids that everyone's going to die and so on. So in this case the parents have taken it into their own hands to educate their kids (primary school age) as to the facts that the risk to any individual is very low so long as we all take precautions.
> 
> ...



*Very good *point, this is a perfect time to educate what is fundamental and important. If I could suggest two things that will really soak geography in. 1st jointly do a big jigsaw puzzle of the world. You can chat a lot during the hours it takes to construct. 2nd At the end of construction play a search and find; where is the Nile River; who can find a country starting with 'D'; Can you find Eritrea.



(Side note every time I jump in a Uber Ola I always ask where were you born, and the city. I have heard some really interesting stories). When I get home I look up where that country and city is in the world.


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## Smurf1976 (21 March 2020)

From the other perspective, it could be argued that the use of charts with a log scale, a concept not well understood by the general public, on charts in this article understates the situation.

Log scales simply aren't something used by any average person in their day to day life indeed some would be completely unfamiliar with the concept.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03...ls-how-covid-19-spreads-in-australia/12060704


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## qldfrog (21 March 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> From the other perspective, it could be argued that the use of charts with a log scale, a concept not well understood by the general public, on charts in this article understates the situation.
> 
> Log scales simply aren't something used by any average person in their day to day life indeed some would be completely unfamiliar with the concept.
> 
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03...ls-how-covid-19-spreads-in-australia/12060704



Got a point, could be a way to spread the criticality by not using log scale and just zooming out...
People in Australia have not really clicked at what's ahead and Medio focus on TP and supermarkets while the Gov maintains elections here in qld gives a wrong message

Is it wrong to risk panic by showing ICU situation in Italy?
Less in my opinion and more constructive than food run.focus by media
We are not at risk of starvation, but could do with more virus explanation and impact on the health system.
And economy .


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## SirRumpole (21 March 2020)

qldfrog said:


> Is it wrong to risk panic by showing ICU situation in Italy?




No, it's reality. It might shock people into listening to medical advice in order to avoid the Italian situation.


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## rederob (21 March 2020)

MovingAverage said:


> That’s a very good point and the reason I made this post. When I read that headline I did some digging to find out if he actually said that and I too can’t find anything to suggest that is what he said.



I guess that you are not too good at digging for things and seem to concentrate on rubbish.
Anyway, Morrison used most of those exact words in this press conference.
Moreover, Employment Minister Michaelia Cash at a previous press conference to announce a "record number" of people in work also said "*as we know, and as the Prime Minister … made clear, businesses will close, and some Australians will lose their jobs.*"


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## qldfrog (21 March 2020)

rederob said:


> I guess that you are not too good at digging for things and seem to concentrate on rubbish.
> Anyway, Morrison used most of those exact words in this press conference.
> Moreover, Employment Minister Michaelia Cash at a previous press conference to announce a "record number" of people in work also said "*as we know, and as the Prime Minister … made clear, businesses will close, and some Australians will lose their jobs.*"



But would not saying otherwise be lying?
Of course a lot of people are going to lose their jobs and their shirts
The market crash already cost a bit, for savers, super members and missing taxes on now investment losses


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## SirRumpole (21 March 2020)

rederob said:


> I guess that you are not too good at digging for things and seem to concentrate on rubbish.
> Anyway, Morrison used most of those exact words in this press conference.
> Moreover, Employment Minister Michaelia Cash at a previous press conference to announce a "record number" of people in work also said "*as we know, and as the Prime Minister … made clear, businesses will close, and some Australians will lose their jobs.*"




This was the quote from that press conference..

_"There will be Australians over the next six months who, through no fault of their own, will find themselves with less work, with less income. And in the worst case, without a job, that is that is going to happen. And that's going to happen to quite a number of people. And it's our job to ensure that we do as much as we possibly can to cushion that blow and to put the other arrangements in place, like what has happened today with banks and others and what we’ll seek to do working through the states and territories for landlords and so on, to ensure that we can provide that support to people through these difficult next six months, through this transitional period, through this temporary period. And I can assure you, David, we are giving very close attention to the very things you're talking about, because it will be a difficult time. People who have never known themselves to be out of work will be confronted in some cases with that prospect. And we want to make sure that we can help them as best as we can through what will be a difficult period for them and their family."_

I guess we can quibble, but he didn't mention Centrelink, whether that makes any difference is a matter of opinion.


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## MovingAverage (21 March 2020)

rederob said:


> I guess that you are not too good at digging for things and seem to concentrate on rubbish.
> Anyway, Morrison used most of those exact words in this press conference.
> Moreover, Employment Minister Michaelia Cash at a previous press conference to announce a "record number" of people in work also said "*as we know, and as the Prime Minister … made clear, businesses will close, and some Australians will lose their jobs.*"



And it would seem you’re not too good at reading what I posted in my OP. Go back and look at my OP and the headline used in the media article and then show me where the PM said that? What you quoted in your post was not the headline that was run. You are clearly missing the point of what I am saying...nothing wrong with reporting on real facts, but the headline run by the ABC is nothing short of a misquote designed for sensationalism. Why does the media feel the need to put their own spin on what the PM said instead of just reporting what he said without the spin?


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## rederob (21 March 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> I guess we can quibble, but he didn't mention Centrelink, whether that makes any difference is a matter of opinion.



The PM was quoted on his answer to a question about Centrelink, and journalists used some of his exact words.  
How the media can be held to account for reporting the *correct *intent is a mystery.
Moving right along, Boris has worked out what is needed for those becoming unemployed in the United Kingdom and we really need to borrow from his example.  
Our imperative should be to keep as much of the economy ticking over as possible, and that is achieved by ensuring most people have the means to remain *consumers* rather than hermits having to save every penny.


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## rederob (21 March 2020)

MovingAverage said:


> Go back and look at my OP and the headline used in the media article and then show me where the PM said that?



I linked to the *EXACT  *words, and *these were quoted verbatim with the use of quotation marks in the lead * to ensure the average person could work out the difference between the journalist's commentary and the PM's remarks.
It really could not be clearer, yet you cannot work this out!
Pretty sad that you started a thread on a topic you got wrong from the get go.


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## MovingAverage (21 March 2020)

rederob said:


> Pretty sad that you started a thread on a topic you got wrong from the get go.




I’m not sure I can make my point any easier for you to understand, but you probably don’t realise that you are acknowledging my point by highlighting there is the journalist’s added sensationalist spin (or as you call it, commentary) in the headline. I hope that makes you understand my point a bit easier, which I didn’t think was too difficult for the average Joe to understand


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## SirRumpole (21 March 2020)

rederob said:


> Our imperative should be to keep as much of the economy ticking over as possible, and that is achieved by ensuring most people have the means to remain *consumers* rather than hermits having to save every penny.




I agree, but there are pretty mixed messages aren't there ?

Don't go out, stay at home, don't go to the footy, cinemas or restaurants, but keep spending !

How are we supposed to reconcile those ?


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## rederob (21 March 2020)

MovingAverage said:


> I’m not sure I can make my point any easier for you to understand, but you probably don’t realise that you are acknowledging my point by highlighting there is the journalist’s added sensationalist spin (or as you call it, commentary) in the headline. I hope that makes you understand my point a bit easier, which I didn’t think was too difficult for the average Joe to understand



Utter crap.
It's newsworthy to quote the PM acknowledging that *people never before unemployed now face that prospect.
On the other hand you have been denying that link existed!*
You have made a mountain out of a molehill.


SirRumpole said:


> I agree, but there are pretty mixed messages aren't there ?
> Don't go out, stay at home, don't go to the footy, cinemas or restaurants, but keep spending !
> How are we supposed to reconcile those ?



They are all "*discretionary*" spends Rumpy, and Boris has worked out how those affected don't fall by the wayside.
I just got an email from our local Coffee Club which remains open, but now offers discounts on pick up meal orders.  So smart restaurants can probably get some cash flow from takeaways: we dined in at our small local Thai restaurant on Monday and their takeaway trade was non-stop, and none was via a delivery service.
Anyway, I have lots of things to do each day that require "hardware" shopping, and I won't be slowing down (having already slowed down of course ).


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## MovingAverage (21 March 2020)

rederob said:


> Utter crap.
> It's newsworthy to quote the PM acknowledging that *people never before unemployed now face that prospect.
> On the other hand you have been denying that link existed!*




You know that’s not the point I’m trying to make so I’m not sure why you keep pushing it. Please go back and have a long hard read of my OP and tell me where I’m objecting to quoting the PM.


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## rederob (21 March 2020)

MovingAverage said:


> You know that’s not the point I’m trying to make so I’m not sure why you keep pushing it. Please go back and have a long hard read of my OP and tell me where I’m objecting to quoting the PM.



OMG, you began with this, "... *personally I am completely over the outrageous and sensationalist headlines being trotted by our poor excuses for what is passed off as media*."
You are miffed by the ABC using *the PM's exact words* in a reply to a question about people's job prospects and Centrelink benefits.
*You were unable to find the context of PM's words, and still refuse this point.
It is you who have sensationalised sound journalism, not the other way around.*
I regard people like you as incompetent, and indicative of the mentality that leads to what has indeed been "sensationalised," like fights over toilet rolls.
I trust that when you trade on the stock market you do much better research.


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## MovingAverage (21 March 2020)

rederob said:


> I regard people like you as incompetent, and indicative of the mentality that leads to what has indeed been "sensationalised," like fights over toilet rolls.
> I trust that when you trade on the stock market you do much better research.




Hmmm....so now you resort to personal insults. One day you'll have to tell me about the burden you carry for being such an intellectual giant. Your post reminded me of the saying "Insults are the last resort of insecure people with a crumbling position"

How many times do I have to explain to you despite having said it on many occasions...I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH USING THE PMs EXACT WORDS OR REAL FACTS BEING REPORTED...hopefully my use of caps will get my message through. I'm objecting to journalists PUTTING THEIR SPIN (OR AS YOU CALL IT COMMENTARY) ON THINGS.

Given your highly defensive response you'll have to forgive me for thinking you work in the media.


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## rederob (21 March 2020)

MovingAverage said:


> Hmmm....so now you resort to personal insults. One day you'll have to tell me about the burden you carry for being such an intellectual giant. Your post reminded me of the saying "Insults are the last resort of insecure people with a crumbling position"
> 
> How many times do I have to explain to you despite having said it on many occasions...I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH USING THE PMs EXACT WORDS OR REAL FACTS BEING REPORTED...hopefully my use of caps will get my message through. I'm objecting to journalists PUTTING THEIR SPIN (OR AS YOU CALL IT COMMENTARY) ON THINGS.
> 
> Given your highly defensive response you'll have to forgive me for thinking you work in the media.



I said you are incompetent in this matter, and I continue to base it on what I have linked to.
Despite numerous posts showing the context was appropriate, you are claiming it as "spin" and sensationalism.
In your eyes the very real threat of people who have never previously faced unemployment having to front Centrelink should not be a lead line to the article.  Yet it was about the PM's reply to a question on this very matter.
Furthermore you are actually *outraged *by the use of the PM's words, contrary to what you have claimed.
Back in the 80's I used to help write the Employment Ministers Media Releases so I have a pretty good idea of what spin is.  The ABC didn't even come close.
Do better research and get a grip on the concept of context.


----------



## qldfrog (21 March 2020)

JJADV said:


> Criminal.. really.. what planet are you on.. They walk a fine line of controlling the hysteria of the plebs, controlling the situation and trying to have an economy on the other sine.. what would you do Einstein??



Eh i found an Einstein !!!!
https://www.news.com.au/finance/eco...o/news-story/fefb6eb8a17608202d704b40bb4e2dff
Could be instructive for many
The choice is here.i like Tasmania, far less my home state Qld
This is what journalism should be
Explain the options to the many, as proven here, who do not understand or are not aware of them
We are VERY lucky to be able to leverage previous experiences, many did not get that luck, let's not waste it


----------



## MovingAverage (21 March 2020)

rederob said:


> Back in the 80's I used to help write the Employment Ministers Media Releases




I’m done trying to make my point to you and will leave it here with you as you clearly keep insisting my posts are about something they are not, but I guess that is your experience with spin kicking in. I think there’s a saying about the dangers of arguing with a certain type of person—you shouldn’t do it because they’ll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. I will admit one thing I was wrong on, I had you pegged as working for the Daily Tele, but clearly you proved me wrong with your government experience—that’s a much more noble pursuit.


----------



## rederob (21 March 2020)

qldfrog said:


> Eh i found an Einstein !!!!
> https://www.news.com.au/finance/eco...o/news-story/fefb6eb8a17608202d704b40bb4e2dff
> Could be instructive for many
> The choice is here.i like Tasmania, far less my home state Qld
> ...



Brilliantly simple from John Daley and it's a shame he's not on the PM's team.
Many of us who have been to China and visited cities like Wuhan with around 11 million people would be amazed that the overall number of infections (and subsequent deaths) was not a great deal higher. Especially because they suppressed the problem for well over a month before deciding they needed to act.
I recall many media outlets "sensationalising" the apparently draconian action of authorities to get the virus under control.
On the other hand, here we are in Oz with an almost "she'll be right" attitude if we just do a few things and don't upset people much - sorry about the footy but, hey, they can still play, no probs!
I reckon Captain Mainwaring and Basil Fawlty could have done a better job than Scomo.


----------



## Trendnomics (21 March 2020)

_*I think the media should be held to account... what do you think?*_

Yes - The media should be held accountable for under-utilising their large/effective platform and underplaying the risk posed to Australia. I'm not seeing the level of corporate or individual action truly needed to stop the rapid exponential spread of the disease, which would ultimately overwhelm the Australian health care system. This may partly be due to the fact that time lapsed exponential growth is fundamentally hard to grasp OR that the economy is more valuable than lives.

The major problems we are facing due to this virus:

Almost 2.5 times more contagious and 30 times more fatal than the common seasonal flu

A huge number of infected will require hospitalisation at the same time (estimated hospitalisation rates are between 15-20% of infected)
Australia's hospital bed capacity is very very limited (we are only slightly above WHO recommendations - have a look at how we compare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_hospital_beds) - for some of the sick there will be no safety net
If you do get sick, you will be separated from your family and you could potential die a lonely death (family separation during these times should be avoided at all costs)
Personally I have pushed the nuclear button (been in Isolation since Tuesday 17/03/20) - due to my personal calculation findings (bed capacity vs spread rate). I have found that the health system in my city of residence, could potentially be overwhelmed in less than 2 weeks from now. Hence, if I contract the disease now and I add the average incubation period, plus the delayed onset of pneumonia, I could potentially be requiring treatment in a very very strained hospital system.

My recommendation to my extended family is simple - the window for action is closing, it's time to lock yourselves in - if your employer is unwilling or unable to allow you to work from home, then stay home and use your sick/annual leave.

My plan is to monitor the exponential growth (whilst being in isolation) for the next two weeks and to see if the path I predicted plays out - if there is a large reduced deviation I will reconsider my current stance.

This is a 1 in a 100 year event - please respect it.

(The above writing is my personal opinion only - Not to be used as advice)


----------



## rederob (21 March 2020)

MovingAverage said:


> I think there’s a saying about the dangers of arguing with a certain type of person—you shouldn’t do it because they’ll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.



The reality here is that others will be much better judges.
The other reality is you refuse to acknowledge *you could not find the context of the article's lead*, and blatantly lied when you capitalised "*I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH USING THE PMs EXACT WORDS OR REAL FACTS BEING REPORTED*" as from your initial post you were, in your own words, *"completely* *over the outrageous and sensationalist headlines."*


----------



## MovingAverage (21 March 2020)

rederob said:


> The reality here is that others will be much better judges.
> The other reality is you refuse to acknowledge *you could not find the context of the article's lead*, and blatantly lied when you capitalised "*I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH USING THE PMs EXACT WORDS OR REAL FACTS BEING REPORTED*" as from your initial post you were, in your own words, *"completely* *over the outrageous and sensationalist headlines."*



I can't believe you're not letting this go. Your dog with a bone approach really has me thinking you're a card carrying member of the ALP.


----------



## Knobby22 (21 March 2020)

MovingAverage said:


> I can't believe you're not letting this go. Your dog with a bone approach really has me thinking you're a card carrying member of the ALP.



You believe the propaganda from certain media.


----------



## MovingAverage (21 March 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> You believe the propaganda from certain media.



Please enlighten me because my memory fails me at the moment...what propaganda is it you're suggesting I believe?


----------



## rederob (21 March 2020)

MovingAverage said:


> I can't believe you're not letting this go. Your dog with a bone approach really has me thinking you're a card carrying member of the ALP.



Whereas you are simply dishonest and I have no truck with liars.


----------



## MovingAverage (21 March 2020)

rederob said:


> Whereas you are simply dishonest and I have no truck with liars.



hahaha...and there it is


----------



## Knobby22 (21 March 2020)

MovingAverage said:


> Please enlighten me because my memory fails me at the moment...what propaganda is it you're suggesting I believe?



The part of the media who spend most of their time attacking all the other parts of the media and saying anything bad that happens is due to the other media  not poor communication by the Government.

The fact you started getting political suggests that.


----------



## MovingAverage (21 March 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> The part of the media who spend most of their time attacking all the other parts of the media and saying anything bad that happens is due to the other media  not poor communication by the Government.



Really...I was hoping you'd give me something better than that. Listen, if you have a beef with the current government take it elsewhere not because I care for the current government but because I just couldn't give a crap--LNP, ALP, Greens etc etc they are all as bad as each other and are equally as embarrassing. You'll be wasting your ALP rhetoric on me so save it for someone that really cares.


----------



## rederob (21 March 2020)

MovingAverage said:


> hahaha...and there it is



I back up my posts with evidence.
You continued to lie about your claims.
This is a thread you started, and it was "fake news" on your part.
Typical of people who cannot defend their positions with facts, you offered nothing but contradictions and obfuscation.  
Worse, you lie about the FACTS and are incapable of acknowledging your inability to determine the context of your remarks, eg you said "When I read that headline I did some digging to find out if he actually said that and I too can’t find anything to suggest that is what he said."
If you are going to start a thread, have the balls to be honest about it.


----------



## MovingAverage (21 March 2020)

rederob said:


> I back up my posts with evidence.
> You continued to lie about your claims.
> This is a thread you started, and it was "fake news" on your part.
> Typical of people who cannot defend their positions with facts, you offered nothing but contradictions and obfuscation.
> ...



You really are starting to venture into flat earth territory now. Fake news, really! Your bully boy ALP approach may work on some but not me. Take a bex, have a lie down and find some LNP fanboys to take out your frustration. You really should see a doctor. Oh for the days of Kevin 07 hey


----------



## rederob (21 March 2020)

MovingAverage said:


> You really are starting to venture into flat earth territory now. Fake news, really! Your bully boy ALP approach may work on some but not me. Take a bex, have a lie down and find some LNP fanboys to take out your frustration. You really should see a doctor



Yep, no ability to defend your comments with either facts or honesty.
You realise this is exactly the line people like you take on global warming - distraction and obfuscation because you are vacuous.
As I said, have the balls to finish what you started, or don't start to begin, which, in your case would have been the best option.


----------



## Knobby22 (21 March 2020)

MovingAverage said:


> Really...I was hoping you'd give me something better than that. Listen, if you have a beef with the current government take it elsewhere not because I care for the current government but because I just couldn't give a crap--LNP, ALP, Greens etc etc they are all as bad as each other and are equally as embarrassing. You'll be wasting your ALP rhetoric on me so save it for someone that really cares.



I don't have a beef. Morrison is doing an excellent job so far. Very hopeful he will get us through this like South Korea has got through it. 

He has really lifted in my view. The Health Minister and the Treasurer have also impressed. 

I think all facets of the media on the whole within Australia are doing a pretty good job also. 

The crap causing problems is from the USA. Like that talk show doctor, blaming the media while lying about the facts, hope someone over there sues him.


----------



## MovingAverage (21 March 2020)

rederob said:


> Yep, no ability to defend your comments with either facts or honesty.
> You realise this is exactly the line people like you take on global warming - distraction and obfuscation because you are vacuous.
> As I said, have the balls to finish what you started, or don't start to begin, which, in your case would have been the best option.



Man, you really are a persistent mofo. Hardcore ALP so gotta bring in the climate change at any given opportunity. I’m serious when I say this, but you need help dude...serious help. I think you’re a little unhinged. As for having balls to finish what I started...message me and I’ll be more than happy to make some arrangements with you.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (21 March 2020)

Stay calm, Comrades. 

gg


----------



## rederob (21 March 2020)

MovingAverage said:


> Man, you really are a persistent mofo. I’m serious when I say this, but you need help dude...serious help. I think you’re a little unhinged. As for having balls to finish what I started...message me and I’ll be more than happy to make some arrangements with you.



Again, this is the response of people who get caught out and are too gutless to fess up.
But rather than admit it, blame the other party.
How many chances do you need to be honest?


----------



## MovingAverage (21 March 2020)

rederob said:


> Again, this is the response of people who get caught out and are too gutless to fess up.
> But rather than admit it, blame the other party.
> How many chances do you need to be honest?



“Fess up” and “blame the other party”....you really have lost the plot  “how many chances do you need to be honest”...you sound like some small town 80s cop with that line of questioning. Take your meds, you know you need them. I’m still waiting for you to message me


----------



## qldfrog (21 March 2020)

Knobby22 said:


> I don't have a beef. Morrison is doing an excellent job so far. Very hopeful he will get us through this like South Korea has got through it.
> 
> He has really lifted in my view. The Health Minister and the Treasurer have also impressed.
> 
> ...



Nice one @Knobby22 , you earned a beer/glass of shiraz next time you are around,..post virus


----------



## IFocus (21 March 2020)

Problems with the media....you bet this is priceless........


----------



## MovingAverage (21 March 2020)

IFocus said:


> Problems with the media....you bet this is priceless........




Like I say...the media has been irresponsible, sensationalist and very loose with the truth and needs to be held to account.


----------



## banco (21 March 2020)

If the media had been more alarmist eariler we might have less of a problem now.

Seems like some desiccated LNP supporters are more annoyed that the media hasn't genuflected towards the LNP's fantastic leadership (like letting in thousands of people from cruise ships with close to zero checks).


----------



## rederob (22 March 2020)

MovingAverage said:


> Like I say...the media has been irresponsible, sensationalist and very loose with the truth and needs to be held to account.



The problem is that you began a thread which was completely inaccurate in intent.
You compounded your incompetence by further claims which were bald faced lies.
There are media outlets that will sensationalise and distort and they are easy to find, so why not be honest and use facts to support your contentions on those elements.
And while you are at it, cease with your ad hominems as they truly cast you in a poor light.


----------



## MovingAverage (22 March 2020)

rederob said:


> The problem is that you began a thread which was completely inaccurate in intent.
> You compounded your incompetence by further claims which were bald faced lies.
> There are media outlets that will sensationalise and distort and they are easy to find, so why not be honest and use facts to support your contentions on those elements.
> And while you are at it, cease with your ad hominems as they truly cast you in a poor light.


----------



## basilio (22 March 2020)

This story from The Guardians Editor reflects the challenges of the media doing it "righyt" in terms of reporting the unfolding CORVID 19 crisis.

* The coronavirus story is unfathomably large. We must get the reporting right *
Lenore Taylor
Our coverage of the biggest event of our lives is a defining challenge for the news media

*‘How should we balance legitimate questioning of government decisions with the danger of further undermining further public faith in expert advice and institutions*?’ Photograph: Mick Tsikas/AAP

The news rolls in like waves. One unfathomably huge development crashing on another. President Donald Trump has shut US borders. Now Australia is closed to foreigners too. Scott Morrison is spending billions. The surplus is history, a recession now inevitable. The graph of confirmed cases soars. The death count climbs. The job losses rise. We were allowed to attend the football, then only smaller gatherings, now we have to measure the space between us and other human beings, soon there may be localised lock downs. Daily life is shutting down, closing in, to makeshift home offices and socially distant outings to supermarkets where there’s not much to buy. And that’s just in the last week.


I’m thinking carefully about how Guardian Australia reports on the biggest event of our lives. How do we track these daily convulsions and make sense of how society is shattering and how or when it will recover. Reporting the coronavirus pandemic is a defining challenge and responsibility for the news media. It demands deep consideration.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2...homably-large-we-must-get-the-reporting-right


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## basilio (22 March 2020)

Have to say when I see  rabid Right Wing shock jock nut cases like  SEan Hannity denying the words they said only two weeks ago without any sense of apology my blood boils.

But then he is just repeating the same lying response that Donald Trump is currently undertaking as he defends his January/February response to the COVID 19 crisis.
 
* Trump dismisses report on early coronavirus warnings as 'inaccurate' *

US intelligence agencies raised concerns in January and February, while the president minimized the risk, the Washington Post said

Donald Trump has dismissed a report that he ignored early warnings from US intelligence agencies about the threat posed by the coronavirus outbreak in China and repeated recent attacks on the press.

The agencies sounded the alarm in January and February but the president continued to minimize the risk and failed to act, the Washington Post reported.

On Saturday, Trump, who has made a habit of shooting the media messenger, attacked the Post without dealing with any of the substance of the allegations contained in the reporting.

“I think the Washington Post covers us very inaccurately, covers me very inaccurately,” he told reporters at the daily White House coronavirus task force briefing. “I saw the story. I think it’s a disgrace but it’s the Washington Post and I guess we have to live with it. It’s a very inaccurate –”

 
*  Bluff, bombast and blame is all that Donald Trump can offer in this crisis  *
Nick Cohen


Read more
As a journalist tried to interject, Trump raised his hand and snapped: “Quiet, quiet.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/21/trump-us-coronavirus-warning-china


----------



## frugal.rock (22 March 2020)

I have flipped on this.

Let the media ramp, scaremonger, point fingers whatever. Whatever it takes to get the word back to it's semblance of normality, whatever that is anymore.
If we had Uber drone deleveries, no need to go to the shop.

Shut it all down today. 
Rip off the band aid.

F.Rock


----------



## SirRumpole (22 March 2020)

Andrew Probyn on ABC.  

There is a looming health "catastrophe" and the public will have to steel themselves that thousands of people will die.

Alarmist ? IMO yes.

If people do the right thing then we should be able to limit the infection, and the media need to get with the program, not needlessly scare people.


----------



## rederob (22 March 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Andrew Probyn on ABC.
> 
> There is a looming health "catastrophe" and the public will have to steel themselves that thousands of people will die.
> 
> ...



Given we have some of the most lax internal measures in the world, a looming *catastrophe *is a bit weak.  
We have moved the goal post to a probable catastrophe.
Our local shopping centre this morning was very much business as usual with people traffic, except in cafes.  The food court area is not classed as a cafe/restaurant so tables are the same distance apart as before.  Some people were doing their best at social distancing, but on the whole, not much change except where checkouts had "place markers" (and not all stores had them).
Schools remain open and contact sports are being played - at least some are.  
Then we have the exceptionally bright NSW government allowing thousands of passengers to disembark from cruise ships in recent days without mandatory testing or quarantining arrangements.
Many other nations have involved their military in a number of ways - what is ours doing?
It's all good and well pouring tens of billions into the economic ramifications, but right now every arm of government should have been mobilised to put in place public and community health measures which would have gone a long way to ameliorating the economic stimuli.
Not too sure how many more people need to point to what China did, and then Korea, to put a lid on COVID-19, and suggest we do the same.
Sadly we have a Trumpian type as our PM who continues to be on the backfoot and acts too late.


----------



## MovingAverage (22 March 2020)

sticking the boots into the liberal party...would never has seen that come from you


----------



## SirRumpole (22 March 2020)

rederob said:


> Given we have some of the most lax internal measures in the world, a looming *catastrophe *is a bit weak.
> We have moved the goal post to a probable catastrophe.
> Our local shopping centre this morning was very much business as usual with people traffic, except in cafes.  The food court area is not classed as a cafe/restaurant so tables are the same distance apart as before.  Some people were doing their best at social distancing, but on the whole, not much change except where checkouts had "place markers" (and not all stores had them).
> Schools remain open and contact sports are being played - at least some are.
> ...




I certainly agree about the cruise ships, that was complete stupidity. My general point about Probyn was that he was putting his own spin on the issue and projecting the most pessimistic outcome instead of reporting the facts and keeping the governments honest about what was actually being done.


----------



## rederob (22 March 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> I certainly agree about the cruise ships, that was complete stupidity. My general point about Probyn was that he was putting his own spin on the issue and projecting the most pessimistic outcome instead of reporting the facts and keeping the governments honest about what was actually being done.



With respect Rumpy, the pessimistic outcome is nearer 3% of 50% of the population, although maybe our health system can get it down to the high tens of thousands.  
Just remember we get as a minimum a few thousand deaths from the common flu each year, and this virus is variously estimated around 30 times as deadly.


----------



## rederob (22 March 2020)

MovingAverage said:


> sticking the boots into the liberal party...would never has seen that come from you



Are you unintelligent?
Scomo appears to be ignoring the best lessons from overseas experiences which have proved successful.
What that has to do with the Liberal Party is anyone's guess.
This is a medical health emergency, not a political crisis.
Scomo is, however, doing his best to be as well regarded as Trump in tackling the issue.
So let's put some flesh on this.
Scomo knew from the recent national bushfires that we had no "national emergency" powers in federal legislation: it's all with the states.  What did he do?
Answer: nothing!
So we now have another crisis. 
What are the feds doing?
Blaming the states when they get it wrong rather than bringing them all together (electronically) and agreeing on consistent national principles.
We, the public, are being treated a bit like crash test dummies.


----------



## Garpal Gumnut (22 March 2020)

Stay calm comrades,

gg


----------



## Trendnomics (22 March 2020)

An example of the media using their platform effectively:


----------



## SirRumpole (22 March 2020)

rederob said:


> With respect Rumpy, the pessimistic outcome is nearer 3% of 50% of the population, although maybe our health system can get it down to the high tens of thousands.
> Just remember we get as a minimum a few thousand deaths from the common flu each year, and this virus is variously estimated around 30 times as deadly.




So write us a press release robbie.


----------



## qldfrog (22 March 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Andrew Probyn on ABC.
> 
> There is a looming health "catastrophe" and the public will have to steel themselves that thousands of people will die.
> 
> ...



Ok @SirRumpole, how about if there are less than 2000 deaths by , i end augusti donate $25 ..if still alive and out of ICU, to Joe fund.
Feel free to do the same with same provision 
Based on current gov reaction, thousands of deaths is a given
Only question is should media say it: aka potential panic 
Jump in SirRumpole, Joe will not lose on this one


----------



## sptrawler (22 March 2020)

MovingAverage said:


> Like I say...the media has been irresponsible, sensationalist and very loose with the truth and needs to be held to account.



Never going to happen, if anyone tries to hold the media to account, the media just cranks up the vitriol a notch and only reports negative content.
If the Government tries to do anything, it is an attack on freedom of the press, IMO the media will bring about its own demise.
The younger generation are more socially connected via social media, I know talking to my four kids, they are all disconnecting from mainstream media.
So in a lot of ways, the current affairs programmes and normal TV news shows are catering to an older demographic, which is actually dying out.
It also explains why the polls get everything so wrong, they are not researching the larger demographic and are using outdated selection proceedures IMO.
Just my opinion.


----------



## banco (22 March 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> I certainly agree about the cruise ships, that was complete stupidity. My general point about Probyn was that he was putting his own spin on the issue and projecting the most pessimistic outcome instead of reporting the facts and keeping the governments honest about what was actually being done.




It's  not the most pessimistic take though. Thousands dead is completely consistent with the famous imperial college report that UK Government (and reportedly US Government) are basing their response on. It's a base case scenario.


----------



## SirRumpole (22 March 2020)

qldfrog said:


> Ok @SirRumpole, how about if there are less than 2000 deaths by , i end augusti donate $25 ..if still alive and out of ICU, to Joe fund.
> Feel free to do the same with same provision
> Based on current gov reaction, thousands of deaths is a given
> Only question is should media say it: aka potential panic
> Jump in SirRumpole, Joe will not lose on this one




Agreed.


----------



## qldfrog (22 March 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Agreed.



Perfect, and we both hope I lose.If we only have 2k deaths, imho, it would be a major victory


----------



## SirRumpole (22 March 2020)

qldfrog said:


> Perfect, and we both hope I lose




Ditto.


----------



## Smurf1976 (22 March 2020)

rederob said:


> Many other nations have involved their military in a number of ways - what is ours doing?
> It's all good and well pouring tens of billions into the economic ramifications, but right now every arm of government should have been mobilised to put in place public and community health measures which would have gone a long way to ameliorating the economic stimuli.



My anecdotal observations is that people are responding to the response not the reason.

They're seeing the problem as "festival is cancelled" or that "nightclub is shut" and are responding with thoughts of ramping up a tourism campaign in lieu of the festival and booking out the local hall and hiring DJ in lieu of the club.

I'm aware of specific examples for both of those and more. People seeing the actions taken to stop the virus spread as the problem, failing to see that those actions are a consequence of the real problem and an attempt to stop it getting worse. Finding ways around them is the last thing we need anyone to be doing.

The masses are, broadly speaking, not accepting the seriousness of this from what I've seen. 

What the media needs to do is stick to the facts and communicate what's going on and why it's necessary in straightforward layman's terms.


----------



## MovingAverage (22 March 2020)

rederob said:


> Are you unintelligent?
> Scomo appears to be ignoring the best lessons from overseas experiences which have proved successful.
> What that has to do with the Liberal Party is anyone's guess.
> This is a medical health emergency, not a political crisis.
> ...



You’ve been very critical of the current PM yet all you offer is to sit on the sideline behind your keyboard and post on a stock forum about your personal issues with the LNP using the constant benefit of hindsight. People like you, and there are a lot of people like you in the public, do nothing but move from one issue to another with a constant stream of vitriol and offer absolutely nothing and have certainly done jack to really help advance proper change. You are clearly so arrogant that your own self belief think you know better than the current government. So I ask, how has your pathetic political career gone? I guess it’s just easier to remain a troll spewing force vitriol instead of rolling up your sleeves to make a genuine difference to the public good. I will admit, you make for a good internet troll but suck as a politician


----------



## frugal.rock (22 March 2020)

Hey guys and gals,
Please keep it civil.

I refused to retort to @InsvestoBoy calling me an idiot, purely because he/ she has the right to one's own opinion as do I.

Let's keep it above the belt.
Cheers.

F.Rock


----------



## Joe Blow (22 March 2020)

frugal.rock said:


> Hey guys and gals,
> Please keep it civil.
> 
> Let's keep it above the belt.




I agree that these discussions should be kept civil. There's never an excuse for making things personal. The moment someone insults another forum member is the moment that the discussion has ceased being about the topic at hand and inevitably degenerates into a slanging match.

Please keep it civil at all times. Always take the high road.


----------



## SirRumpole (22 March 2020)

Joe Blow said:


> I agree that these discussions should be kept civil. There's never an excuse for making things personal. The moment someone insults another forum member is the moment that the discussion has ceased being about the topic at hand and inevitably degenerates into a slanging match.
> 
> Please keep it civil at all times. Always take the high road.




Traffic on the site seems to have increased Joe. 

It's an ill wind... as they say.


----------



## Joe Blow (22 March 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> Traffic on the site seems to have increased Joe.
> 
> It's an ill wind... as they say.




Yes, traffic is up. So are posts. By quite a bit. Overall it's a problem I don't mind having, even if it does stir up the odd bit of unpleasantness. You kind of have to expect the occasional dummy spit, as long as it doesn't become too common.


----------



## Smurf1976 (22 March 2020)

Joe Blow said:


> Please keep it civil at all times. Always take the high road.



Definitely agreed.

I think everyone, both online and in the physical world, needs to bear in mind at all times that many people will be under very considerable mental stress with all this.

Risk of death is the most obvious and drastic one.

Many will lose large amounts of money. That's less drastic than death but still a problem if it turns someone's reasonable retirement into a meager existence for the next 20 years or means that their dream of buying a house or seeing the world is now shattered. It's a major blow to them both practically and psychologically.

Many will see businesses fail or lose their employment. Some will in practice never recover due to lack of capital and inability to gain new employment due to especially age. Plenty ended up like that during previous recessions so odds are this'll be at least as bad.

That virtually everyone will have at least the next 6 months disrupted and not as they'd intended is another.

At a broader level, the probable loss of various "iconic" businesses and perhaps individuals (death) will bring a sense of doom and gloom to many. It only needs some business that everyone's been a customer of or at least knows of and that seemed "too big to fail" to actually fail and that brings a sense of gloom to everyone. Likewise if someone well known and liked passes away due to the virus.

So my thought is, in short, let's look after each other and bear in mind that others we meet, either online or off, may well be under incredible stress at the present time.


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## rederob (23 March 2020)

MovingAverage said:


> You’ve been very critical of the current PM yet all you offer is to sit on the sideline behind your keyboard and post on a stock forum about your personal issues with the LNP using the constant benefit of hindsight.



I am critical because I have noted what has been done to be successful, yet even now we have schools open.  This is not a benefit of hindsight.  And I also said before most people that 2 key safety nets were debt relief and a living wage - you will find my posts date stamped. I have zero "personal issues" with the LNP as you suggest, but I am critical of our PM for the many reasons I have already stated - he has done too little too late.
THE WHO says the most important thing we can do is "test, test, test," but we are not, as we don't have enough test kits.



MovingAverage said:


> People like you, and there are a lot of people like you in the public, do nothing but move from one issue to another with a constant stream of vitriol and offer absolutely nothing and have certainly done jack to really help advance proper change.



That is completely untrue.  The nastiness is from you because your OP to this thread was ill founded and you have continued to lie about your stance.


MovingAverage said:


> You are clearly so arrogant that your own self belief think you know better than the current government. So I ask, how has your pathetic political career gone?



First, I have posted in many threads and offered ideas that have worked in other countries. The issue here is why they are being put to one side by our government.  Why aren't the military (or private sector) building dedicated COVID-19 field hospitals so that our normal hospital system can operate as usual?  That worked exceptionally well in Wuhan where no new cases are now being reported, after having been the epicentre just 2 months ago.


MovingAverage said:


> I guess it’s just easier to remain a troll spewing force vitriol instead of rolling up your sleeves to make a genuine difference to the public good.



I call out bad posts and say exactly why, often in forensic detail.  Yours was grossly deficient and you have followed it up with a stream of petty personal insults instead of addressing the points I made in relation to your claims.
I also made the point that we need federal legislation to allow "emergency powers" to be exercised at a national level.  Is that on the table?  No, we still have states doing their own thing; in NSW poorly and in Tassie, well.


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## MovingAverage (23 March 2020)

rederob said:


> I am critical because I have noted what has been done to be successful, yet even now we have schools open.  This is not a benefit of hindsight.  And I also said before most people that 2 key safety nets were debt relief and a living wage - you will find my posts date stamped. I have zero "personal issues" with the LNP as you suggest, but I am critical of our PM for the many reasons I have already stated - he has done too little too late.
> THE WHO says the most important thing we can do is "test, test, test," but we are not, as we don't have enough test kits.
> That is completely untrue.  The nastiness is from you because your OP to this thread was ill founded and you have continued to lie about your stance.
> First, I have posted in many threads and offered ideas that have worked in other countries. The issue here is why they are being put to one side by our government.  Why aren't the military (or private sector) building dedicated COVID-19 field hospitals so that our normal hospital system can operate as usual?  That worked exceptionally well in Wuhan where no new cases are now being reported, after having been the epicentre just 2 months ago.
> ...




oh quick...context switch...play the victim card


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## rederob (23 March 2020)

MovingAverage said:


> oh quick...context switch...play the victim card



Seriously?
I have been proactive posting ideas on COVID-19 and attaching informative links.
You simply were unable to find a quote from the PM and on that basis labelled an article from the ABC as outrageous and sensationalism.
What is presently outrageous is that we can contemplate school children as the active carriers of COVID-19 without any testing whatsoever.  This is the complete opposite of what has happened in Singapore and why they at least stand some chance of ensuring there is no spread.


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## qldfrog (23 March 2020)

Smurf1976 said:


> Definitely agreed.
> 
> I think everyone, both online and in the physical world, needs to bear in mind at all times that many people will be under very considerable mental stress with all this.
> 
> ...



So my comment on anger coming after the fear
Anger about others, about own decisions etc
Losing 15 to 30pc of your wealth, you need an escape goat.


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## Smurf1976 (23 March 2020)

qldfrog said:


> So my comment on anger coming after the fear
> Anger about others, about own decisions etc
> Losing 15 to 30pc of your wealth, you need an escape goat.




I'll simply say that at a whole of society level I do have a lot of concern about where that anger ends up being directed.

It's going to be a massive force at some point. I maintain my view that it has the potential to end seriously badly in that regard so my hope is it doesn't. Reality though is that mass unemployment and other losses with an identified trigger is a dangerous combination.


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## basilio (23 March 2020)

rederob said:


> I am critical because I have noted what has been done to be successful, yet even now we have schools open.  This is not a benefit of hindsight.  And I also said before most people that 2 key safety nets were debt relief and a living wage - you will find my posts date stamped. I have zero "personal issues" with the LNP as you suggest, but I am critical of our PM for the many reasons I have already stated - he has done too little too late.
> THE WHO says the most important thing we can do is "test, test, test," but we are not, as we don't have enough test kits.
> That is completely untrue.  The nastiness is from you because your OP to this thread was ill founded and you have continued to lie about your stance.
> First, I have posted in many threads and offered ideas that have worked in other countries. The issue here is why they are being put to one side by our government.  Why aren't the military (or private sector) building dedicated COVID-19 field hospitals so that our normal hospital system can operate as usual?  That worked exceptionally well in Wuhan where no new cases are now being reported, after having been the epicentre just 2 months ago.
> ...




Well, well worth re reading.
RedRobs observations about what has been successfully done in other countries to actively deal with containing the virus and treating its effect are very pertinent.

As far as your grandson in hospital. Absolute bummer. But frankly totally understandable in the current situation. Really hope it all works out well. Certainly highlights the need  for drastically expanded  medical facilities to deal with expected  increases in suspected cases  and their treatment.

*And yes this should have been done from mid-late January onwards*.  There was plenty of evidence of  how bad things were in China and where this could easily go with us.

Currently we need the government to move like hell on multiple fronts and demand industry response to producing the medical requirements we need

We need a total community response to locking down as far as possible and preventing this virus from spreading.
And we need to support each other to make these things happen.


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## Joe Blow (23 March 2020)

This thread ceased being about the media a few pages back and has become about COVID-19 more generally. It might be time to move the last few pages of posts across to the COVID-19 discussion thread in General Chat.


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## frugal.rock (23 March 2020)

It's a bit like the economy Joe, a proper mess... a dog's breakfast.


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## Joe Blow (23 March 2020)

OK, I've gutted this thread and moved a lot over to Coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak discussion.

If anyone wants to discuss COVID-19 and the media again, they can still do so in this thread.


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## sptrawler (23 March 2020)

I accidentally switched to the news tonight, an interview was about to commence and it started with, "do we have the leadership we deserve". Well I thought, we have certainly got the media we deserve and changed over to bargain hunt.


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## MovingAverage (24 March 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I accidentally switched to the news tonight, an interview was about to commence and it started with, "do we have the leadership we deserve". Well I thought, we have certainly got the media we deserve and changed over to bargain hunt.




give me bargain hunt any day over the news


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## Humid (25 March 2020)

So much of the media I see is about cafes and hairdressers 
We drink coffee and manufacture nothing with Centrelink lines snaking for miles full of casual hospitality workers.
People concerned with educating their children at home for what?
To wait tables?


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## sptrawler (25 March 2020)

Here is a good example of the media and the way they present an article, it is from the highly respected Guardian, I will post the last paragraph as it kind of conflicts with the article.
_
He has softened his attitude towards the official line, which he said had become much more consistent.
“Last week the government improved the messaging, they brought that national leadership group together, they stabilised,” Swan says. “I don’t necessarily agree with their messaging, but it’s become much more coherent.”
He dismissed calls on social media for him to replace the CMO.
“We have to get rid of the mushroom cloud of Twitter and social media and all that crap and get down to focusing on the business, and that’s what we’ve been doing,” he said.
“I was getting anxious because I was moving so fast and I was scared I’d make a mistake. I’ve made two small errors which I’ve corrected on air.”
He has rationalised his media appearances, and is concentrating on his main gigs as well as 7.30 and RN Breakfast_.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2...-after-pms-office-intervention-on-coronavirus


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## MovingAverage (25 March 2020)

sptrawler said:


> _He dismissed calls on social media for him to replace the CMO._




I find it laughable that some are calling from Swan to replace Murphy. Swan is a career journo and yes he studied medicine way back in the 70's but his medical career is hardly outstanding. Granted Swan may well be a good journo (whatever that means) but on paper Murphy has a far more impressive medical career. I have no idea what it takes to be a good CMO, but I'd rather have Murphy based on his career than Swan.


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## Knobby22 (25 March 2020)

100% agree.

Swan is a great journo in the medical field, popular in Canada also. He has a clue. Love his show.

We don't want to be going down the Trump path of putting journalists in leadership positions though. Different skill set.


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## rederob (25 March 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Here is a good example of the media and the way they present an article, it is from the highly respected Guardian, I will post the last paragraph as it kind of conflicts with the article.



Can you please explain what is contradictory.
It's an excellent piece from the Guardian, showing that those critical of the ABC are not particularly competent.  For example, it says "Henderson also appeared on Sky News telling Andrew Bolt, another Swan critic, that the ABC health journalist was confusing the message."  Whereas Swan was presenting the best available information and continues to do so.  The inconsistencies remains with governments - State and federal - who to this day are not acting in concert and have claimed keeping schools open is not a concern.


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## rederob (29 March 2020)

This is the crap the commercial media continues to feed to the public.
Here's a snippet:
Nick Coatsworth (Deputy Chief Medical Officer): And I have to say that the experts around the table of the Australian Health Protection Principal Committee do not think that this will be over in weeks, if you put in harder and faster measures.  So this is about degrees. *We’ve gone hard and fast.* To say that we’ve gone light and slow would be completely inaccurate.​
I suppose if you have not followed what has been put in place by nations who now have a low R0 for COVID-19 you might believe Coatsworth. But if you were a disembarking passenger from a flight or cruise ship you would know that was sickeningly false.  Until today the federal "rules" were self-enforced - and it's now over 2 months that China led the hard-line with lockdowns.  Wuhan *today *is slowly easing back its restrictive arrangements, while ours are not yet close to what they did.

Here's the measures China has put into place for arrivals; Sky News has more about their recent experience if you want to google.


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## Dona Ferentes (29 March 2020)

Gallup Poll ... responses about support for US institutions
(hospitals, HIGHEST  ....... through to  -> Media, LOWEST)

https://news.gallup.com/poll/300680/coronavirus-response-hospitals-rated-best-news-media-worst.aspx


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## banco (29 March 2020)

rederob said:


> This is the crap the commercial media continues to feed to the public.
> Here's a snippet:
> Nick Coatsworth (Deputy Chief Medical Officer): And I have to say that the experts around the table of the Australian Health Protection Principal Committee do not think that this will be over in weeks, if you put in harder and faster measures.  So this is about degrees. *We’ve gone hard and fast.* To say that we’ve gone light and slow would be completely inaccurate.​
> I suppose if you have not followed what has been put in place by nations who now have a low R0 for COVID-19 you might believe Coatsworth. But if you were a disembarking passenger from a flight or cruise ship you would know that was sickeningly false.  Until today the federal "rules" were self-enforced - and it's now over 2 months that China led the hard-line with lockdowns.  Wuhan *today *is slowly easing back its restrictive arrangements, while ours are not yet close to what they did.
> ...




Now, now we are not allowed to criticise the Government and what could Australia possibly have to learn from those rice eaters in Singapore, Taiwan and South Korea where their governments seems to have done a much better job?


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## sptrawler (23 September 2020)

sptrawler said:


> I accidentally switched to the news tonight, an interview was about to commence and it started with, "do we have the leadership we deserve". Well I thought, we have certainly got the media we deserve and changed over to bargain hunt.



Well I see the owners are starting to see sense and strip out their 'news opinion' programme's, it is about time news became news, rather than just another morning or afternoon variety show.
It has become a training ground for aspiring actors to practice their skills, at putting across an interpretation of a event, it will be sadly missed by many. Just my opinion.
https://www.theage.com.au/culture/t...l-news-and-on-air-talent-20200921-p55xom.html
From the article:
_The most significant and contentious change has been in the news division with a reduction and centralisation of coverage. The weekday 5pm 10 News First bulletins now come only from Sydney and Melbourne. Brisbane and Perth bulletins are broadcast from Sydney, Adelaide receives its news from Melbourne. Almost all the presenting staff in Brisbane, Perth and Adelaide lost their jobs_.

The last time I watched commercial news in Perth, it had 5 minutes of local social media, 25 minutes of biased overseas news and 35 minutes of adverts.😂


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## Smurf1976 (23 September 2020)

sptrawler said:


> Well I see the owners are starting to see sense and strip out their 'news opinion' programme's, it is about time news became news, rather than just another morning or afternoon variety show.



A lot of it's really just marketing.

Some celebrity comes on for an interview because, no surprise here, they're touring or their book's about to be released or whatever.

Same with the print media. No idea how much Kmart pays for those "articles" to be written but it isn't news by any reasonable definition of the term. 

Radio I can see surviving a very long time but the days of newspapers and FTA TV are very much numbered in my view.


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## frugal.rock (23 September 2020)

And then you have David Speers on the ABC 
He is a one man "interuptor"

He goes fishing for the answer he wants to hear and if that's not what he's hearing, interrupting with a different angled question.

It's downright disgusting as he also looks like Dictator Dan.


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## MovingAverage (24 September 2020)

frugal.rock said:


> And then you have David Speers on the ABC
> He is a one man "interuptor"
> 
> He goes fishing for the answer he wants to hear and if that's not what he's hearing, interrupting with a different angled question.
> ...



I’ve stopped watching Insiders since Speers started hosting. His interviewing style is so overtly agenda driven with loaded questioning. Drives me nuts


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## SirRumpole (24 September 2020)

Speers is certainly annoying with interruptions but on the other hand people don't answer questions they just give a a spiel from the Party hmyn book.

"Has Treasury modelled the effects of a reduction in Jobseeker payments" was a simple question that Morrison did his best not to answer and Speers rightly pursued it.


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## frugal.rock (24 September 2020)

SirRumpole said:


> "Has Treasury modelled the effects of a reduction in Jobseeker payments" was a simple question that Morrison did his best not to answer and Speers rightly pursued it.



I watched it. 

Is the PM treasury?
What else does the treasury do apart from modelling?

Some questions are just downright freakin dumb from the onset....


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## basilio (24 September 2020)

frugal.rock said:


> Is the PM treasury?
> What else does the treasury do apart from modelling?
> 
> Some questions are just downright freakin dumb from the onset....



Er 

The question of  the (obvious) effects of reduction in job seeker (unemployment) payments is absolutely critical in terms of economic fallout with COVID. There are still hundreds of thousands of recent and earlier people without work or income.

It would be front and centre of the government budget and cabinet deliberations.

So the question is absolutely on line and should be asked, should be answered and should be followed up if the PM ignored it.


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## SirRumpole (24 September 2020)

frugal.rock said:


> I watched it.
> 
> Is the PM treasury?
> What else does the treasury do apart from modelling?
> ...




Treasury advises the PM, he must be aware of all their advice and if he's not then he's negligent.


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## moXJO (24 September 2020)

Treasury warned against cutting payments. I'm sure you can download the results of modelling from their sites.


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## frugal.rock (24 September 2020)

Fair enough, all points valid however the media has a habit of asking anyone from government anything... regardless of whether it's the appropriate department.

My point was he is an interupting interviewer.
The fact that I personally find him worm like is irrelevant.


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## Smurf1976 (24 September 2020)

frugal.rock said:


> I watched it.
> 
> Is the PM treasury?
> What else does the treasury do apart from modelling?
> ...



I haven't watched it but as a concept yes, the PM most certainly should know whether or not Treasury has modeled the effects of a significant government policy and he should release that modeling publicly. 

Some things like defence and so on need to be kept confidential but modeling a welfare policy sure doesn't. 

If there's nothing to hide then just release it and that settles the issue.


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