# Occupy Wall Street



## BradK (3 October 2011)

So, there seems a grass roots movement is attempting to get up in the United States. Only sketchy news in the mainstream media at the moment - but, alot of alternative media outlets are reporting it. Seems to be disjointed at the moment - but, needs to organise properly. 

My fave, Matt Taibbi is reporting it: 
http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...wall-street-drawing-the-battle-lines-20110927

Attempt to repress the right to protest?? 
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=7089

In addition, there were recent major protest sit-ins in Wisconsin - 700,000 consistently over a month or so. 

What do you all think? Going to get worse? 

Brad


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## bandicoot76 (3 October 2011)

BradK said:


> So, there seems a grass roots movement is attempting to get up in the United States. Only sketchy news in the mainstream media at the moment - but, alot of alternative media outlets are reporting it. Seems to be disjointed at the moment - but, needs to organise properly.
> 
> My fave, Matt Taibbi is reporting it:
> http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...wall-street-drawing-the-battle-lines-20110927
> ...




i did abit of scratching around on this one and it appears to be more 'mr soros' and his devious minions playing political games rather than a genuine grassroots movement... 

i saw an independant reporter interviewing some of these clowns and their responses were pathetic, mostly just socialist/marxist radicals wanting to tear down capitalism rather than aiming their sights on the ppl who are responsible... the banking elite & the corrupt pollies! 

they were even singing the praises of obama and how he would save them for gods sake! 

http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2011/10/are-clueless-occupy-wall-street.html


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## orr (3 October 2011)

I don't know how main stream you consider the New York Times but this I read in it yesterday 


http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/01/police-arresting-protesters-on-brooklyn-bridge/?hp

700+ arrests; to suggest That this is some sort of Soros inspired Marxist rabble errs on disingenuous, either that or your taking off the spoon what Murdoch is happy to feed you.


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## bandicoot76 (3 October 2011)

orr said:


> I don't know how main stream you consider the New York Times but this I read in it yesterday
> 
> 
> http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/01/police-arresting-protesters-on-brooklyn-bridge/?hp
> ...




i wonder if you even bothered to check the link i posted before you left your retarded lil jibe? 

if they had targeted the people responsible for the current economic crisis (the goldman sachs type parasite banking/financial corporations, the FED, the 'status quo' political system, political corruption etc instead of just chanting "down with capitalism" then they may have some credibility! as it is they come across as brainwashed, manipulated morons!


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## LostMyShirt (3 October 2011)

bandicoot76 said:


> i wonder if you even bothered to check the link i posted before you left your retarded lil jibe?
> 
> if they had targeted the people responsible for the current economic crisis (the goldman sachs type parasite banking/financial corporations, the FED, the 'status quo' political system, political corruption etc instead of just chanting "down with capitalism" then they may have some credibility! as it is they come across as brainwashed, manipulated morons!




It is sad though as not much action can be taken against such corporations regardless of what evidence you bring up unless perhaps you were sneaky enough to have obtained pertanent information relating to illeagal practices... When it comes down to it; protest on speculation and deduction is about all that can be done.


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## BradK (4 October 2011)

bandicoot76 said:


> i wonder if you even bothered to check the link i posted before you left your retarded lil jibe?




Probably the most offensive thing I have ever read on ASF


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## Joe Blow (4 October 2011)

bandicoot76 said:


> i wonder if you even bothered to check the link i posted before you left your retarded lil jibe?




Stick to discussing the topic at hand and lay off the insults and provocation please.


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## DB008 (4 October 2011)

Protest headed for Canada (last night)



> Wall St. protest movement headed for Canada
> 
> 
> Toronto exchange targeted; 700 demonstrators arrested in New York
> ...




More on link above...


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## bandicoot76 (4 October 2011)

BradK said:


> Probably the most offensive thing I have ever read on ASF




apolagies to those who took offense to my comment, it was in response to the 'spoonfed by murdoch press' jibe aimed at me in the previous post which i took as an attack on my intelligence and took offense at. 

i can only guess that you missread the statement taking "YOUR" to mean "YOU"... i was saying his jibe at me was retarded, it was not a personal attack!


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## Starcraftmazter (5 October 2011)

Unemployment is not quite high enough for a revolution. So this will probably not amount to much.


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## Boggo (5 October 2011)

The good ol' boy !


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## DB008 (5 October 2011)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/occupy-wall-street-protests-spread-to-dc-boston-la-and-chicago/2011/10/04/gIQA9IOOLL_story.html


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## orr (5 October 2011)

bandicoot76 said:


> i wonder if you even bothered to check the link i posted before you left your retarded lil jibe?




_I'm reeling_ But in part your right I didn't check it but you inspired me to. Koresh vox popped 6 people. from the comment chain.
News Media wants to make these weak-minded fools the "face" of the protest just to discredit the mob. Wouldn't you?
 Or if your a struggling  independent possably ingraceiate yourself with them 
There were 700+arrests on the Brooklyn bridge , what was the total number of protesters. If any coherent ideas gel, it'll be around regulation



bandicoot76 said:


> if they had targeted the people responsible for the current economic crisis (the goldman sachs type parasite banking/financial corporations, the FED, the 'status quo' political system, political corruption




Regulation is what they fear, of the type that has been peeled back since the 70's, that will return us to that totalitarian communist period in America of the 50's and 60's . To which they reply, through their Lobbies: Cross us and We'll bury in our cash.
 The only place politicians will grow any balls on this will come from numbers on the street. So in who's interest is it to off up Koresh's patsies.

Was that what rankled? Or was it the spoon feeding. I could be more succinct. On Soros, You're channelling Glenn Beck Check Jon Stewart The Manchurian Lunatic.
http://vodpod.com/watch/4945773-daily-show-glenn-beck-is-the-manchurian-lunatic

 Soros is on board with a big step in the right direction a Tobin Tax


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## IFocus (5 October 2011)

Boggo said:


> The good ol' boy !




LOL classic not that I think Obama is completely blameless but it has been fascinating watching the Republicans running the political conversation away from there own disasters.


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## bandicoot76 (5 October 2011)

orr said:


> _Was that what rankled? Or was it the spoon feeding. I could be more succinct. On Soros, You're channelling Glenn Beck Check Jon Stewart The Manchurian Lunatic.
> http://vodpod.com/watch/4945773-daily-show-glenn-beck-is-the-manchurian-lunatic
> 
> Soros is on board with a big step in the right direction a Tobin Tax_



_

i view the whole event through libertarian/austrian economic coloured glasses, i have no love of any media organisation, murdoch or otherwise.... so of course your 'spoon fed' jibe was offensive to me and i considered it a retarded comment in the context of this thread.

it may surprise you that ron paul was also unhappy that the protests had been hijacked by marxist radicals and has tried to re-direct the protest to become "occupy the fed' so as to spearhead the movement towards the ppl & organisations it should be targeting

as for soros, a favourite author & social commentator of mine, former canadian governor general john ralston saul, sums up my feelings towards the manipulative, behind-the-scenes power-broker when he stated: 'in times past george soros would have been hung as a pirate' ...in his awesome book 'voltaires bastards'... i would suggest you buy a copy it is very enlightening! 

again i apolagise to those who were offended by my 'retarded' comment in hindsight the word 'pathetic' would have served a better purpose! _


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## artist (5 October 2011)

bandicoot76 said:


> i view the whole event through libertarian/austrian economic coloured glasses, i have no love of any media organisation, murdoch or otherwise.... so of course your 'spoon fed' jibe was offensive to me and i considered it a retarded comment in the context of this thread.
> 
> it may surprise you that ron paul was also unhappy that the protests had been hijacked by marxist radicals and has tried to re-direct the protest to become "occupy the fed' so as to spearhead the movement towards the ppl & organisations it should be targeting
> 
> ...




I am curious about a couple of things here: First, it seems that John Ralston Saul was not a former Canadian governor general, but is the husband of Adrienne Clarkson who was Canadian governor general until 2005. For her part "Adrienne Clarkson continues to be a drain on the pocketbooks of Canadian taxpayers.

The former Governor General, known for her extravagant spending habits, has billed taxpayers more than $500,000 for secretarial help since leaving Rideau Hall in 2005. . . . .This is not the first time Clarkson has been questioned about her spending habits.

During her tenure as Governor General her budget increased from $11 million a year to $19 million and, in 2003, she enraged Canadians after going $4 million over budget on a northern country tour to promote Canadian culture.

Clarkson and husband John Ralston Saul are now co-chairs of the Institute for Canadian Citizenship, a Toronto-based non-profit organization that helps new Canadians enter mainstream life.

And, of course, she earns a sizable government pension estimated to be greater than $120,000 a year." http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/cana...arkson-still-costing-taxpayers-165917954.html

Again, as you would no doubt expect, there are those whose enthusiasm for "Voltaire's Bastards" does not match your own. Indeed "It is therefore something of a disappointment to finally reach the end of this book and discover that he has very little in the way of practical solutions to offer for our current troubles. When I asked him about this in an interview, he replied, "I'm not in the business of suggesting solutions. I don't belong to the Platonic tradition, I belong to the Socratic tradition." . . . . I would be prepared to dismiss intellectual arrogance and historical inaccuracies as unimportant if I felt the overall purpose of this book were a more constructive one. As it stands, Voltaire's Bastards comes up short. It's an ironic assessment given that the book is, at 640 pages, maddeningly long." http://www.scottlondon.com/reviews/saul.html


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## orr (6 October 2011)

Again, as you would no doubt expect, there are those whose enthusiasm for "Voltaire's Bastards" does not match your own. Indeed "It is therefore something of a disappointment to finally reach the end of this book and discover that he has very little in the way of practical solutions to offer for our current troubles. When I asked him about this in an interview, he replied, "I'm not in the business of suggesting solutions. I don't belong to the Platonic tradition, I belong to the Socratic tradition." … I would be prepared to dismiss intellectual arrogance and historical inaccuracies as unimportant if I felt the overall purpose of this book were a more constructive one. As it stands, Voltaire's Bastards comes up short. It's an ironic assessment given that the book is, at 640 pages, maddeningly long." http://www.scottlondon.com/reviews/saul.html[/QUOTE]

I haven't been  back to it in the eight to ten years since I put it down, And I haven't suggested to anybody, Unlike the work of another Canadian J.K.Galbraith. But I underlined on pg. 17, back whenever,_ " Neither the public and corporate authorities nor experts are held responsible for their own actions..."_ at least that's pertinent to this thread.
There's more laughs and as much insight in Francis Wheen's "how mumbo jumbo conquered the world" , with out 400pgs of esoteric history
And from James Galbriath at the 5th Annual Dijon This Year, and it's good and relevant.
http://www.zcommunications.org/the-final-death-and-next-life-of-keynes-by-james-k-galbraith

Oh and Bandi, When your in a hole stop digging.


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## BradK (6 October 2011)

Bandicoot. Thanks for the apology. 

Now back to business.... 

Interestingly, David Cameron had his ass kicked yesterday when he WAS going to encourage Britains to pay off their credit card and store cards ... however, the comment was pulled from the speech, and has been criticised all over the Guardian for his economic illiteracy. Here, Larry Elliot talks about Keynes' idea of the 'paradox of thrift' 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/oct/05/david-cameron-paradox-of-thrift

At some point, we need to wake up and begin to sheet the blame in the correct places and take the following action: 

1. Debt Jubilee! ... (ok, crucify me, but hear me out!) - give it to people who want it, but ban them from accessing any/or cheap credit for a period of 10 years so that these undisciplined assoles can sit it out. 
2. Massive education program so that we do not fall into the same problem as the good residents of South Park in the episode where Stan pays off the debt of everyone in a Debt Jubilee and then go on another spending spree only to rack up more debt. 
[video]http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/222708/paying-for-everyones-debts?xrs=playershare_fb[/video]

3. Of course, the consumer and the mum and dad property investor have a massive hand in this ... bidding up the prices of property. 
4. Put all bankers, Robert Kiyosaki, television producers of shows like 'The Block', etc. on a desert island until this whole thing is sorted. THEY ARE THE PROBLEM AND HAVE NO PART IN THE SOLUTION. PERIOD. 
4. Ban corporate campaign contributions to American, British and Australian parliaments. 

Call me a commo, Marxist, whatever you want. The big end of time have had enough time to fix it. And they have only fixed it for themselves. 

The whole system needs to be looked at honestly. And since the big end of time own the media and are not having the proper debates, hopefully movements like this will collectively shout... 

'The EXIT SIGNS ARE GREEN. You've had your turn. Now #(%* OFF!' Time for some new thinking. Neoliberalism, Mises, von Hayek, Austrians, are DEAD. BURIED. They have NO PART IN THE SOLUTION.

Oh, this guy tells it like it is  



Michael Flately is really from Chicago!


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## BradK (6 October 2011)

Lol... bit of a rant that, wasn't it? 
Sorry about the frustration... a sign that not a single politician is trying to get anything done, and that big media really are not having the correct debates. 

:


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## young-gun (6 October 2011)

BradK said:


> Bandicoot. Thanks for the apology.
> 
> Now back to business....
> 
> ...




I'm not sure we can hold the block responsible for current overpriced housing  although it does push the widespread view of "house prices always go up" and " you can't go wrong with bricks and mortar" It's a shame Cameron copped a flogging for this. God forbid we actually get to the root of the problem and pay down debt instead of trying to band aid it and hoping for the best.

I didn't read about Keynes but I'm fairly sure he's the guy that developed the idea in the early 1900's of controlling the economy with rates and stimulus? How wrong he was.


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## kimcasablancas (6 October 2011)

My biggest problem with this isn't that they're protesting (hey if they were just protesting financial policy in the US, I'd be on board with them!) but the fact that they don't even seem to know exactly what they're aiming at and that it seems to just come down to rich vs. poor.


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## bandicoot76 (6 October 2011)

"While I fully endorse the efforts and actions of the Occupy Wall Street protests, now emerging internationally, there are concerns which need to be addressed and kept in mind as the movement moves forward.

The process through which a potentially powerful movement may be co-opted and controlled is slight and subtle. If Occupy Wall Street hopes to strive for the 99%, it must not submit to the 1%, in any capacity.

The Occupy movement must prevent what happened to the Tea Party movement to happen to it. Whatever ideological stance you may have, the Tea Party movement started as a grass roots movement, largely a result of anti-Federal Reserve protests. They were quickly co-opted with philanthropic money and political party endorsements.

For the Occupy Movement to build up and become a true force for change, it must avoid and reject the organizational and financial ‘contributions’ of institutions: be they political parties, non-profits, or philanthropic foundations. The efforts are subtle, but effective: they seek to organize, professionalize, and institutionalize a movement, push forward the issues they desire, which render the movement useless for true liberation, as these are among the very institutions the movement should be geared against.

This is not simply about “Wall Street,” this is about POWER. Those who have power, and those who don’t. When those who have power offer a hand in your struggle, their other hand holds a dagger. Remain grassroots, remain decentralized, remain outside and away from party politics, remain away from financial dependence. Freedom is not merely in the aim, it’s in the action.

The true struggle is not left versus right, democrat versus republican, liberal versus conservative, or libertarian versus socialist. The true struggle is that of people against the institution: the State, the banks, the central banking system, the corporation, the international financial institutions, the political parties, the mainstream media, philanthropic foundations etc 

The transfer of power from one institution to another does not solve the crisis of our ‘institutional society,’ whereby a few have come to dominate so much, to concentrate so much power at the expense of everyone else having so little. True liberation will result only from opposition to ‘the institution’ as an entity. Placating power from one institution to another renders resistance ineffective. The power structures must be discredited, and power must be distributed to the people, through voluntary associations, communal groupings, and people-powered (and people-funded!) initiatives.

In order to survive as a movement, money will become a necessity. Do not turn to the non-profits and philanthropic foundations for support. The philanthropies, which fund and created the non-profits and NGOs, were themselves created to engage in ‘social engineering’: to ‘manufacture consent’ among the governed, and create consensus among the governors. The philanthropies (particularly those of Carnegie, Ford, and Rockefeller) fund social movements and protest organizations so as to steer them into directions which are safe for the elites. The philanthropies are themselves run by the elite, founded by bankers and industrialists striving to preserve their place at the top of the social structure in the midst of potentially revolutionary upheaval."
-Andrew Marshall

I COULDNT AGREE MORE! ......BANDICOOT


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## bandicoot76 (6 October 2011)

kimcasablancas said:


> My biggest problem with this isn't that they're protesting (hey if they were just protesting financial policy in the US, I'd be on board with them!) but the fact that they don't even seem to know exactly what they're aiming at and that it seems to just come down to rich vs. poor.




+1!!!!


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## explod (6 October 2011)

kimcasablancas said:


> My biggest problem with this isn't that they're protesting (hey if they were just protesting financial policy in the US, I'd be on board with them!) but the fact that they don't even seem to know exactly what they're aiming at and that it seems to just come down to rich vs. poor.




I think there is a core that know allright.   Having been a part of the sytem myself once I can assure you the press are engineered to paint a picture of confusion and radicalism.  Of course the latter element may be needed more and more to shift opinion in a direction that can find solutions for survival.

This following clip is from a young lad who does seem to know the bigger picture.  And again acknowledgements to my friend Steve for sending it through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQow0Fhua1A


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## GumbyLearner (6 October 2011)

explod said:


> I think there is a core that know allright.   Having been a part of the sytem myself once I can assure you the press are engineered to paint a picture of confusion and radicalism.  Of course the latter element may be needed more and more to shift opinion in a direction that can find solutions for survival.
> 
> This following clip is from a young lad who does seem to know the bigger picture.  And again acknowledgements to my friend Steve for sending it through.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQow0Fhua1A




Thanks for posting it up explod. 

Here's a copy of an email I sent to a couple of my former and current seppo work colleagues today. 

Hi all

There is an Occupy Wall St movement currently orchestrating a "sit-in" in New York.

As I'm sure many are already aware, it comprises a mixed group of anarchists, commies, environmentalists, celebrity cling-ons and
"it's all capitalisms faultists." As well as a bunch of whole other lemmings.

But not everybody there is a lemming like this young bloke. He has his head screwed on and is outnumbered by the unintelligent throng of "blow-ins".

Good to see that there are some young people who understand what is going on.

He will probably become unemployable for his entire life after what he says in this video. I'd give him a job just for his honesty.

I'm happy to invite anyone to critique his analysis.

Cheers
Steve

It's good to see that this young American guy hasn't been playing computer games all his life.



TOO BIG TO FAIL, TOO SMALL TO PASS


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## Julia (6 October 2011)

kimcasablancas said:


> My biggest problem with this isn't that they're protesting (hey if they were just protesting financial policy in the US, I'd be on board with them!) but the fact that they don't even seem to know exactly what they're aiming at and that it seems to just come down to rich vs. poor.



+2.



explod said:


> I think there is a core that know allright.   Having been a part of the sytem myself once I can assure you the press are engineered to paint a picture of confusion and radicalism.



Well, explod, I listened to a quite extensive interview with a spokesperson for this protest today and he was forced to agree that their philosophy is somewhat amorphous.  He was quite unable to say what actually they were asking for.

Reminded me of the 'rent a crowd' bunch, usually comprising those with a gripe against something, even if they're not quite sure what, and who are happy to be roped into protesting about pretty much anything.

(The above comment should not be taken as my feeling all warm and fuzzy toward Wall Street et al.)




bandicoot76 said:


> The power structures must be discredited, and power must be distributed to the people, through voluntary associations, communal groupings, and people-powered (and people-funded!) initiatives.



Bandicoot:  who is Andrew Marshall?
You say you agree with his remarks.  
Could you outline how you consider "power structures can be discredited", and "distributed to the people".
It all sounds like a blurb for the Socialists.

I'd just be interested in an outline of how "the people" are going to successfully run the country in the absence of any 'power structures'.


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## GumbyLearner (6 October 2011)

Hi Julia/Garpal Gumnut

"It all sounds like a blurb for the Socialists."

That's correct, the bankers.


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## orr (6 October 2011)

Julia said:


> +2.
> 
> Could you outline how you consider "power structures can be discredited"




"There was a private vocabulary, well-known in the industry, covering these loans and related financial products: liars' loans, NINJA loans (the borrowers had no income, no job or assets), neutron loans (loans that would explode destroying the people but leaving the buildings intact), toxic waste (the residue of the securitization process). I suggest that this tells you that those who sold these products knew or suspected that their line of work was not one hundred percent honest. Think of the restaurant where the wait staff refers to the food as scum, sludge and sewage."

"To learn as we do from the excellent book by Bethany McLean and Joe Nocera, All the Devils are Here, that at the dominant mortgage originator in the United States, Ameriquest, the office chiefs fed their sales staff crystal methamphetamine to keep them going."

I think that outlines , in part, how the financial industry's done  that job themselves.
Both Quotes were taken from James Galbraiths address to Dijon that I've previously linked, Not that I expect anyone to read it.


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## orr (7 October 2011)

And this 'how the people without Structure', The market is a structure and those who manage it should make a living but it's inter play, it should work for us not us for it. So the bloated financial system that's developed under the failed 'Chicago School' experiment needs to be redressed. The Ayn Randers wont recognises it, it's not in their vocabulary, so where setting up the re-education camps now ' It's "regulation" '


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## BradK (7 October 2011)

Its an excuse to say that they movement is listless at the moment. 

The media used to have spin - now they have wash. 

Wash basically means that they confuse the issues so much that everyone gets so confused, everyone shrugs their shoulders, and moves on... 

I agree with Bandicoot... and Andrew Marshall... they can't take money or organise institutionally... 

Bankers, Austrians, Ron Paul, ... you've all had your chance. Time to go. Time for new thinking. 

Brad


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## GumbyLearner (7 October 2011)

BradK said:


> Bankers, Austrians, Ron Paul, ... you've all had your chance. Time to go. Time for new thinking.
> 
> Brad




You may be right Brad K. It could be time for Americans to consider *Bob Roberts *once again. Wait a minute isn't the guy playing the lead role in that movie a Libertarian too? 

I suppose he's also one of the "you've all had your chances" right?  BECAUSE BOB SPELLED BACKWARDS IS STILL BOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## artist (7 October 2011)

Have a look, it will only take 38 seconds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBxPzhXFT6c


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## Gundini (7 October 2011)

GumbyLearner said:


> TOO BIG TO FAIL, TOO SMALL TO PASS





Nuff said. This guy has worked out the problem and the solution.

If you watch the documentary called "Inside Job", everything this young protestor says is explained in detail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzrBurlJUNk

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inside_Job_(film) 

We all know the problem. We all know the solution. And we all know that nothing will change. We are all Muppets who spend our lives trying to protect our wealth in this great global Ponzi game. 

I truly feel for this guy. He realises where we are all headed and is trying to warn the planet to rally for change. Unfortunately, he is too young to know he is fighting a losing battle against an opponent he will never defeat.


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## young-gun (7 October 2011)

Gundini said:


> Nuff said. This guy has worked out the problem and the solution.
> 
> If you watch the documentary called "Inside Job", everything this young protestor says is explained in detail.
> 
> ...




it's a shame that he is fighting a losing battle, and im sure he would be very well aware of the fact. worst part is the people he is speaking out against know he is right aswell...


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## BradK (7 October 2011)

Yeah, my only problem with that you articulate guy is that he seems to have watched one too many of those 'conspiracy' You Tube films ... you know, the 'Fed is evil, Illuminati, NWO' ****e. 

... I wonder if people are beginning to wake up. Interestingly, Ralph Nader, Michael Moore, Ron Paul, Alex Jones (cough cough... what a crazy!) all seem to be on the same page at the moment. 

Lloyd Blankcheque must be getting pretty nervous right now. 

Brad


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## artist (7 October 2011)

BradK said:


> Yeah, my only problem with that you articulate guy is that he seems to have watched one too many of those 'conspiracy' You Tube films ... you know, the 'Fed is evil, Illuminati, NWO' ****e.
> 
> Brad




That was my reaction to this interview too. I relate much more to the protester interviewed here http://www.alternet.org/vision/1526...now_exactly_what_they're_fighting_for/?page=1 who "was noticably uncomfortable being interviewed. He asked me several times if he could start an answer over. “You'll edit that part out?” he asked me more than once. “I'm really not good at public speaking,” he said, awkwardly."


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## BradK (8 October 2011)

Time for new thinking. 

I notice how everyone on both the left and the right are trying to coopt this movement. From the unions, heck, even Obama! to Alex Jones (!) to Michael Moore... to some tea partiers, who put out a spiffy website with Middle Americans with shiny teeth and crisp blue shirts on the front page. 

It is important that all the old failed entities - the Democratic Party, the Republican Party, the Unions, the Banks, the mainstream media - do not get their hooks into this. 

To say there are no clear demands is disingenuous. There is a strong feeling about 

a) the corruption of Wall Street,
b) the presence of money in American politics which has resulted in no serious moral outrage from a single leader in Washington towards the corrupt practices of the banks, 
c) the growing poverty in the United States. 

That is enough to unite at the moment. Dont rush, take it slow. Time for new thinking to emerge. It might take some time. But, it will come. 

As I say, Austrians, neo-liberals, Marxists, political parties, bankers have NO PART IN THE SOLUTION. The new thinking will emerge. 

The BANKERS AND POLITICIANS AND THE BABY BOOMERS DO NOT HAVE THE WISDOM ON THIS. The youth do. They are the leaders of tomorrow, and by god I hope this runs! 

Brad


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## GumbyLearner (8 October 2011)

BradK said:


> Time for new thinking.
> 
> I notice how everyone on both the left and the right are trying to coopt this movement. From the unions, heck, even Obama! to Alex Jones (!) to Michael Moore... to some tea partiers, who put out a spiffy website with Middle Americans with shiny teeth and crisp blue shirts on the front page.
> 
> ...




Hi Brad

You raise some great points. 

Especially this one

*b) the presence of money in American politics which has resulted in no serious moral outrage from a single leader in Washington towards the corrupt practices of the banks, *

You can thank Bill & Hillary as well as Phil Gramm from Texas for that one. 

The abolition of the Glass-Steagull Act. 

Obama will never be Roosevelt. Too many people in his pockets. 

Or as Alex Jones would say - 

"Obama going after Wall Street is like Hitler testifying at Nuremberg."


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## GumbyLearner (9 October 2011)

The next thing that wouldn't shock 
would be for Bono from U2 to roll out with an
acoustic set including all his buddies (ie. Bush, Putin, Brown, Trichet, Mervyn King, Bernanke, IMF goons and World Bank problem solvers etc...) That may quell the fed-up steam of the masses in New York. ROTFLMAO


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## GumbyLearner (9 October 2011)

BradK said:


> Time for new thinking.
> 
> I notice how everyone on both the left and the right are trying to coopt this movement. From the unions, heck, even Obama! to Alex Jones (!) to Michael Moore... to some tea partiers, who put out a spiffy website with Middle Americans with shiny teeth and crisp blue shirts on the front page.
> 
> ...




Hi Brad

If Alex Jones or Michael Moore were for real they would be either bashed by the police or at least put in gaol for a day or two for what they "believe in". Neither have done that. 
Both *"too soft"*. 
Both Cream puff mouthpieces.
Neither want to lose credibility by getting arrested or bashed. 
You have to do both to have any credibility in my opinion. I know I have.


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## bandicoot76 (9 October 2011)

> Bandicoot:  who is Andrew Marshall?
> You say you agree with his remarks.
> Could you outline how you consider "power structures can be discredited", and "distributed to the people".
> It all sounds like a blurb for the Socialists.
> ...




hi julia,

andrew marshall is an independant journalist, other than that i dont know anything about him other than i found his article that i quoted from very apt!

i find it hard to understand how you came to the conclusion his words equated to "a blurb for the socialists", from my reading of his article i concluded that he was focussing on the corrupting influence of certain powerful lobby groups, backed by both corporate parasites & manipulating NGO's such as the foundations (being the power structures) on grassroots organisations. 

from my perspective (as a jeffersonist libertarian) i see his position as opposing over-regulation and domination of the population that is being engineered by institutional power structures, be it big government or crony-capitalism (the current phony-capitalist system that is manipulated and dominated by parasite 'elite' corporations at the expense of developing & small business that represent TRUE capitalism)

as an example of crony capitalism i give you JD rockefeller, a man who created the standard oil empire not by honest and productive practices but by undermining, manipulating and ultimately destroying & taking over any competition he had by whatever devious, corrupt and unethical behaviour that it took. that is not true capitalism, it is authoritarian elitism at its worst and goes hand in hand with fascism.

'competition is a sin' -JD Rockefeller 

...this was the basis for the bastardisation of true capitalism that has brought us to the current corrupt financial system

i'll leave you with a relevant jefferson quote:

“The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.” 
― Thomas Jefferson


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## BradK (9 October 2011)

Gundini said:


> Nuff said. This guy has worked out the problem and the solution.
> 
> If you watch the documentary called "Inside Job", everything this young protestor says is explained in detail.
> 
> ...




That guy has shown his true colours...


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## Julia (9 October 2011)

bandicoot76 said:


> i find it hard to understand how you came to the conclusion his words equated to "a blurb for the socialists", from my reading of his article i concluded that he was focussing on the corrupting influence of certain powerful lobby groups, backed by both corporate parasites & manipulating NGO's such as the foundations (being the power structures) on grassroots organisations.



Thanks bandicoot, for your response.  My socialist comment was probably a bit of a misinterpretation of the message.

What largely provoked the comment was:


> The power structures must be discredited, and power must be distributed to the people, through voluntary associations, communal groupings, and people-powered (and people-funded!) initiatives.




Imo that has somewhat of a socialist flavour to it.

What I'm probably more interested in is how anyone might suggest this actually happens?  All very well to have lofty notions about what's wrong and what should happen to make a better and more functional society, but to just say that "power must be distributed to the people" omits a huge step in reality.  i.e. it isn't as if the current power structures are suddenly about to agree with this notion and readily hand over power to community groups.

And further, how equipped would these so called community groups be to actually handle any level of power?   How would they organise themselves and how would they make essential decisions?  Who, actually, are these community groups?

I acknowledge that I'm very literal and reluctant to accept amorphous ideological protestations, but it's one thing to clearly state what's absolutely wrong, and quite another to set out a plan for how to change it.

There are no politicians currently anywhere in the world, as far as I can tell, who come even close to being prepared to even slightly depart from the status quo.



> i'll leave you with a relevant jefferson quote:
> 
> “The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.”
> ― Thomas Jefferson



 No argument from me.  My questions are simply are about how we may have any realistic expectation of change.


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## Starcraftmazter (10 October 2011)

If you do not support the protest, then you are a communist - 'nuff said.

What is communism if not taking from every hard working taxpayer to bail out failed banks?


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## BradK (10 October 2011)

Julia said:


> No argument from me.  My questions are simply are about how we may have any realistic expectation of change.




Hi Julia, 

Not sure change is on the agenda. Yet. 

I think that the movement has been very savvy so far not to be coopted by either left or right. Despite the media trying so hard to pigeonhole them. That is my concern so far in any movement that may try to form in Australia - to be highjacked by some left wing group .... 

Change? Let's not lose sight of the core message - Wall Street criminality. At present, there is an attempted Attorney General's Settlement across America, where ALL institutions pay a collective $20 billion fine and in return receive immunity from future prosecution for their crimes relating to the packaging, selling and marketing of complex Mortgage backed securities. 

The only complication is that the Attorney General of New York told them to get stuffed with that '****ty deal' - and as of two days ago the LA Attorney General says its too low. Essentially, for a price that everyone accepts, the Washington administration is attempting to seal off the criminality in a one time out of court settelment. But $20 Billion? Collectively? For a Trillion dollar crime? Come on! 

All eyes to Australia with the case brought against S&P by the 11 local councils. Riveting stuff so far. ABN AMBRO basically rated their own highly risky product AAA, prompting an ABN junior to email a colleague, 'Isn't that S&P's job?' The next 10 weeks of the Federal court case will be revealing. 

In short, as I see it, the main value of these protests will be the pressure they exert on the authorities to bring the criminality clearly to the surface and see Wall Street executives jailed. Not fined. Jailed. 

Anything else is our failure not to look, or being too self-interested to care. Noone is calling for the end of capitalism, or banking. Only to bring to justice those who knowingly, recklessly, willfully, gambled and lost with the livelihoods of millions of American and international investors. 

To say that these instruments were too complex is to be disingenuous. The _knew_ and not one major politician has expressed moral outrage with some real judicial action. It seems like Washington has only been focused on decriminalising the criminal acts. It wont wash this time. Times up.

See some more excellent reporting from Matt Taibbi from Rolling Stone on this AG Settlement 
http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...settlement-the-next-big-bank-bailout-20111005


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## Calliope (10 October 2011)

BradK said:


> I think that the movement has been very savvy so far not to be coopted by either left or right. Despite the media trying so hard to pigeonhole them. That is my concern so far in any movement that may try to form in Australia - to be highjacked by some left wing group ....




What do they want?:dunno:

When do they want it?:dunno:


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## BradK (10 October 2011)

Calliope said:


> What do they want?:dunno:
> 
> When do they want it?:dunno:




They want an adequate legislative and judicial response to Wall Street corruption, specifically in relation to the packaging and selling of mortgage backed securities, and the frauds perpetrated around that. 

Any time would be good.


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## bandicoot76 (10 October 2011)

Julia said:


> There are no politicians currently anywhere in the world, as far as I can tell, who come even close to being prepared to even slightly depart from the status quo




there is only one IMO, libertarian (R) presidential candidate Ron Paul. his book 'liberty defined' lays open his positions on many issues and how he would tackle them... a good read


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## disarray (10 October 2011)

"it's called the american dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it" (language warning)


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## bandicoot76 (10 October 2011)

disarray said:


> "it's called the american dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it" (language warning)





RIP George Carlin... what an awesome vid (must admit i saw it years ago) but how spot on was this guy!


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## xyzedarteerf (18 October 2011)

(Occupytimessquare] 1 Marine vs. 30 Cops (Marine Wins)


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## kimcasablancas (18 October 2011)

Here's an interesting article about the Canadian side of the movement. Judging from Canadian friends' facebook status updates and links, it sort of seemed pretty unfocused to me as well.


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## Calliope (23 October 2011)

Does anyone know what they want besides "stuff"? This protester, Omar Hassan, in Melbourne got more than he wanted.


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## Starcraftmazter (24 October 2011)

Calliope said:


> Does anyone know what they want besides "stuff"? This protester, Omar Hassan, in Melbourne got more than he wanted.




Pretty sure this has been posted
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8o3peQq79Q


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## Out Too Soon (24 October 2011)

"Never be decieved that the rich will permit you to vote away their wealth." - Lucy Parsons


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## gav (25 October 2011)




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## Calliope (27 October 2011)

"Arabic Spring" in Australia. What a load of garbage.




> While Australian protesters may have suffered a few bumps and bruises from run-ins with the police, in Libya the damage is obvious - particularly in cities such as Misratah. The victims are obvious, too, even in small towns where posters of young men and women killed during the uprising adorn the streets.
> 
> Abdesalam, 29, a hospitality student, said when looking at the New York protesters he thought they were lucky. "My uncle was put in a box by Gaddafi," he said.
> 
> ...




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ring-say-libyans/story-fn59niix-1226177798417


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## McLovin (27 October 2011)

Maybe someone should point out to Dazza that in many real countries of struggle the local citizenry aren't lucky like he is to be able to squat on a main thoroughfare while collecting benefits paid for by those he depises.


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## Starcraftmazter (27 October 2011)




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## Calliope (28 October 2011)

Ho Hum.

But what's new? Governor-general Paul Hasluck on June 2, 1969:



> AS well as using a lot of energy attacking what they don't like, the young might also give some thought to finding out what they do like. My own difficulty in understanding some sections of youthful opinion today is that I can see what they are against -- sometimes in a rather jumbled way, for they tend to get their protests mixed up together -- but I seldom can see what they are for. A placard may demonstrate whether its author can spell correctly but is incomplete evidence of whether they can think



.


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## Julia (28 October 2011)

McLovin said:


> Maybe someone should point out to Dazza that in many real countries of struggle the local citizenry aren't lucky like he is to be able to squat on a main thoroughfare while collecting benefits paid for by those he depises.



 So well put, McLovin.


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## basilio (30 October 2011)

Saw and excellent article which outlined how dramatically America has changed in the past 30-40 years and why this is outraging many people.

Great graphs which drive home the points.


> *
> The Shocking, Graphic Data That Shows Exactly What Motivates the Occupy Movement*
> The corporate media may obsess about what Occupy Wall Street is all about, but these images should make it clear.
> October 23, 2011  |
> ...




http://www.alternet.org/occupywalls...s_exactly_what_motivates_the_occupy_movement_


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## Calliope (30 October 2011)

basilio said:


> Saw and excellent article which outlined how dramatically America has changed in the past 30-40 years and why this is outraging many people.
> 
> Great graphs which drive home the points.
> 
> ...




You certainly cherry-pick you reading material for left wing bias.


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## explod (30 October 2011)

Calliope said:


> You certainly cherry-pick you reading material for left wing bias.




There are many other links to the reasons for occupy wall street and the growing crowds around the world.  And the momentum is building as the problems become clearer and worse.

Charachteristically the press are very selective in who they interview so as not to reveal the real reasons behind the moves.

The trend is up and I do not think any stop loss will change the tide whilst Governments flounder under the direction of the rich.

Tick to basilio for putting things up front.


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## DB008 (22 December 2011)

*Hackers post cops’ personal data to avenge Occupy movement
*


> Computer hackers are avenging the Occupy movement by exposing the personal information of police officers who evicted protesters and threatening family-values advocates who led a boycott of an American Muslim television show.
> 
> In three Internet postings last week, hackers from the loose online coalition called Anonymous published the email and physical addresses, phone numbers and, in some cases, salary details of thousands of law enforcement officers all over the country.
> 
> The hackers said they were retaliating for police violence during evictions of Occupy protest camps in cities around the country, but law enforcement advocates slammed the disclosures as dangerous.




More on link above


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## bandicoot76 (23 December 2011)

_following is an interesting article i was emailed from a friend in US, and its message is what the OWS protesters should be pushing, not the socialist drivle that seems to be all they are capable of sprouting!_ BC76 


the following is a few paragraphs of the december 2011 stansberry financial newsletter which is usually only available by subscription and is usually copyrighted material, but its author Porter Stansberry, has allowed... no actually make that encouraged, this edition to be freely circulated as he believes it to be very important infomation on the current financial situation we are all facing:

 "I am speaking out now because I believe someone must. And I have the resources to do it. I am sharing these ideas with my subscribers because I know we have arrived at the moment of a long-brewing crisis." porter stansberry 12/15/2011



[In this month's issue, I'd like to try to define a few of the core reasons we're in this situation. I can't possibly analyze all the factors that have led to this decline. But I want to document the growth of graft in politics. I want to demonstrate – with real facts and examples – how public company leadership has deteriorated. And I want to document some of the things that are occurring in the broader society, all of which I believe are linked to this fundamental decline in our standard of living.

You see, I believe the decline of our country is primarily a decline of our culture.

We have lost our sense of honor, humility, and the dedication to personal responsibility that, for more than 200 years, made our country the greatest hope for mankind. I want to detail some of the factors that gave rise to the current entitlement society. We have become a country of people who believe their well-being is someone else's responsibility.
I've labeled these problems: The Corruption of America.

These problems manifest themselves in different ways across institutions in all parts of our society. But at their root, they are simply facets of the same stone. They are all part of the same essential problem.

The corruption of America isn't happening in one part of our country... or in one type of institution. It is happening across the landscape of our society, in almost every institution. It's a kind of moral decay... a kind of greed... a kind of desperate grasp for power... And it's destroying our nation.


The Ethos of 'Getting Yours'

Americans know, in their bones, that something terrible is happening. Maybe you can't articulate it. Maybe you don't have the statistics to understand exactly what's going on. But my bet is, you think about it a lot. 

For me, a poignant moment of recognition came this month.

Bloomberg news published an article based on confidential sources about how Henry Paulson, the former CEO of Goldman Sachs and the Republican U.S. Treasury secretary during the financial crisis, held a secret meeting with the top 20 hedge-fund managers in New York City in late July 2008. This was about two weeks after he testified to Congress that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were "well-capitalized."

I knew for a fact that what Paulson told Congress wasn't true. I wrote my entire June 2008 newsletter detailing exactly why Fannie and Freddie certainly had billions in losses that they had not yet revealed to investors – $500 billion in losses, at least. There was no question in my mind, both companies were insolvent – "zeros," as I explained.

And yet, in front of Congress, the U.S. Treasury secretary was saying exactly the opposite. Either I was a liar... or he was.
Then... only a few days later... what did Paulson tell those hedge-fund managers?

He told them the same thing I had written in my newsletter. He told them the opposite of what he'd said publicly to Congress. He told these billionaire investors that Fannie and Freddie were a disaster... They would require an enormous, multibillion-dollar bailout... The U.S. government would have to take them over... And their shareholders would be completely wiped out.
Here you had a high-government official, explicitly lying to Congress (and by extension, the general public), while giving the real facts to a group of people who represented the financial interests of the world's wealthiest folks. The story didn't come to the public's attention for two years.

This was the most outrageous example of graft and corruption I have ever seen. Certainly it involves more billions of dollars in misappropriated value than any other similar story I can recall. These managers had the risk-free ability to make tens of billions of dollars, if not hundreds of billions, by using derivatives to capitalize on what they knew was the imminent collapse of the world's largest mortgage bank. Who picked up the tab? You know perfectly well. It was you and me, the taxpayers.
(One of the investment managers present at this meeting was Steve Rattner, who by that point was already deeply involved in another bit of graft, his efforts to bribe New York state pension-fund managers for large investments into his hedge fund, from which he earned perhaps as much as $100 million. He later settled the charges for a mere $10 million shortly after Andrew Cuomo was elected governor of New York.)

The Bloomberg story... about a crooked Treasury secretary handing a room full of crooked billionaires inside information worth billions of dollars... hardly caused a ripple. As far as I know, no actions are being planned against Henry Paulson or any of the hedge-fund managers involved. No other major media outlet picked up the story. I saw nothing about it from the Department of Justice or the Securities and Exchange Commission.

What does that say about our country when even the most egregious kind of corruption – involving hundreds of billions of dollars – is simply ignored? 
It seems like everyone in our country has lost his moral bearing, from the highest government officials and senior corporate leaders all the way down to schoolteachers and local community leaders. The ethos of my fellow Americans seems to have changed from one of personal integrity and responsibility to "getting yours" – the all-out attempt, by any means possible, to get the most amount of benefits with the least amount of work.

You can see this in everything from the lowering of school standards (revising the SAT) to the widespread use of performance-enhancing drugs in professional, college, and high school sports. Cheating has become a way of life in America.
I have an idea about how this happened... about the root cause of this kind of corruption and why it was inevitable, given some of the basic facts regarding how we've organized our government and our corporations. 

Let me show you the numbers – the hard facts – behind what's happened to our country... 



The Corruption of Politics

I'll start with one of the biggest factors in the decline of our civilization – the link between welfare, education, crime, and politics.
It is routinely alleged in national political debates that something is fundamentally unfair and un-American about the huge "wealth gap" between the poorest Americans and the wealthiest. Some politicians like to argue that the poor never have a real shot at the American dream, and as a nation, we owe them more and more of our resources to correct this injustice. Most important, it is alleged that only the government has the resources to correct this inequality.

This is a dangerous notion...

First, it promotes the idea of entitlement. Entitlement is a fairly new idea in the American political lexicon – perhaps because most of our nation's wealth is still fairly new. The American idea of entitlement argues that because you were born into a rich society, other people owe you something. The idea has become pervasive in our culture. It underlies the basic assumptions behind the idea of a "wealth gap." Implicit is the assumption that successful Americans haven't rightfully earned their wealth... that in one way or another, they've taken advantage of the society and have an obligation to give back most of what they've "taken."

As you'll see, I believe the idea of entitlement lies at the root of many of our most serious cultural problems.

The more obvious problem is the idea that the government is responsible for fixing the "wealth gap." But the government has proved wholly ineffective at dealing with poverty in America. The data is nearly conclusive that government efforts are far more likely to be the cause of the wealth gap than the solution.
The simple fact is, the government has to take resources from someone before it can dole them out to others. And this act of taking turns out to be economically destructive. It reduces the market's incentives for entrepreneurs. The more you take from the productive members of society, the less productive they become. That's the primary lesson of the history of socialism. Yet... many of our political leaders seem oblivious to this iron law of human nature.]


the full report can be viewed at the following link:


http://www.stansberryresearch.com/pub/reports/201112PSI_issue.html#continue

I feel so strongly about these ideas, I'd like you to forward this issue to everyone you know. We almost never allow this copyright violation... But in this case, feel free to forward as many times as you want. Print it up and pass copies around your hometown.

Porter Stansberry
Baltimore, Maryland
December 15, 2011

Stansberry & Associates Investment Research
1217 St. Paul Street, Baltimore, MD 21202 888-261-2693


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## Starcraftmazter (23 December 2011)

They are not pushing for socialist drivel - they are pushing to end inequality. Economic and otherwise - why do people not go to jail for stealing billions, but go to jail for downloading a few songs? Why must the economic system rape the environment? What gives them the right to take lower paying jobs offshore while keep higher paying - and arguably more wasteful executive jobs?

Etcetera.


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## Garpal Gumnut (23 December 2011)

Starcraftmazter said:


> They are not pushing for socialist drivel - they are pushing to end inequality. Economic and otherwise - why do people not go to jail for stealing billions, but go to jail for downloading a few songs? Why must the economic system rape the environment? What gives them the right to take lower paying jobs offshore while keep higher paying - and arguably more wasteful executive jobs?
> 
> Etcetera.




scm, I agree totally. I actually spent a few hours with the protesters in a southern city and would agree with you. I found them to be in the main a well meaning bunch but there were a hard core of crusty trots amongst them, and as an ole 1968er who was truncheoned for protesting and later for my anti-apartheid actions I can identify with their idealism, but not with the maddies. ( as in Phillip Adams Maddies )

Have a Merry Christmas scm, and if you wish me a "happy holiday" I will biff you, and keep up the intelligent posts mate.

gg


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## artist (23 December 2011)

bandicoot76 said:


> _following is an interesting article i was emailed from a friend in US, and its message is what the OWS protesters should be pushing, not the socialist drivle that seems to be all they are capable of sprouting!_ BC76
> 
> 
> the following is a few paragraphs of the december 2011 stansberry financial newsletter which is usually only available by subscription and is usually copyrighted material, but its author Porter Stansberry, has allowed... no actually make that encouraged, this edition to be freely circulated as he believes it to be very important infomation on the current financial situation we are all facing:
> ...




Ironically, the person who wrote this newsletter, including the portion I quoted and bolded above, seems to be the selfsame (Frank) Porter Stansberry who was "nailed in SEC investment fraud lawsuit" and was fined $1.5 M http://briandeer.com/vaxgen/stansberry-fraud.htm 

". . .  the judge noted that Stansberry’s conduct “undoubtedly involved deliberate fraud” and “making statements that he knew to be false;”. Judge Garbis determined that Stansberry had “testified falsely at trial” and did not recognize his “financial culpability”, and further  “If Stansberry were to provide an assurance, that there would be no future violations, the Court would not find him particularly credible. The existence of an injunction against future fraudulent schemes of the type involved here will provide a needed measure of security against recidivism. The Court finds, after weighing the relevant factors, that there is ample evidence of a “reasonable and substantial likelihood” that Defendants will violate securities laws in the future, absent an injunction.”

Stansberry was also involved in hyping an AIDS drug technology that lead to prosecutions for fraud http://briandeer.com/vaxgen-aidsvax.htm  - "For all the incredulity among vaccine scientists, one man who stood above the herd with Drs Francis, Heyward and Berman was Porter Stansberry . . . . , an "investment analyst" with the Baltimore-based Agora group, who hyped the stock and claimed to have "proof"that AidsVax worked

 Even as insiders and institutions dumped VaxGen, Stansberry's mailshots promised miracles.


(And I don't have time right now to even begin to take issue specifically with some of the claims and contentions he makes in his newsletter.)


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## bandicoot76 (23 December 2011)

i dont subscribe to the porter stansberry newsletter, the first i had even heard of him was the email i received that i then cut and pasted on my previous post due to its content which i thought may be interesting to ppl on this thread,

the content of the linked article struck a chord with me as i felt it closely related to the global financial uncertainty we are experiencing and that the points made by the author seemed credible, considering the amount of corruption and deception on the part of both government and corporate "players" who's actions led  us all down this disasterous path, although the article may have been somewhat exagerated in parts i believe it still had a factual basis and credible conclusions.

as to the allegations of fraud and SEC action against him, porter stansberry answers these allegations at the following link:

http://dailyreckoning.com/why-the-sec-sued-me-and-why-you-should-care/

i am not saying he is innocent nor guilty in relation to the SEC matter... i'm merely pointing out that the article i posted of his had a credible theory on how the lack of financial integrity of many wall street corporations & also the government of the USA has played a major part in the current chaos... 

personally i believe he is spot on with his commentary, but that hasnt influenced me to become a subscriber to his newsletter.

 i think 'artist' just googled 'porter stansberry' then used any negative information he found about the author for an ad hominem attack to try to discredit the authors position... as he didnt refute any of porters claims, just attacked the man who made them. a shabby tactic that adds very little intelligent information to the topic in question.


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