# Can I claim brokerage fee back?



## overule (14 November 2007)

Hi All,

I am just wondering if I am allow to claim back the brokerage fee? 
I am always buying/selling. These include shares and options.
Can I claim the brokerage fee for those two?

Thanks!


----------



## JimBob (14 November 2007)

*Re: Can i claim brokerage fee back ?*

From the ATO website



> Expenses that are not deductible
> Unless you are considered to be a share trader, you cannot
> claim a deduction for the cost of acquiring shares – for
> example, expenses for brokerage and stamp duty. These
> ...




So brokerage fees arent tax deductible on their own, but when you sell your shares, you take the cost of buying and selling the shares off your capital gain, thats how i read it.


----------



## overule (14 November 2007)

*Re: Can i claim brokerage fee back ?*

What's the requirement to be a share trader ? I considered myself to be one. I have traded more than 100 times this year so claiming brokerage fee would be a nice help.


----------



## Nyden (14 November 2007)

*Re: Can i claim brokerage fee back ?*



overule said:


> What's the requirement to be a share trader ? I considered myself to be one. I have traded more than 100 times this year so claiming brokerage fee would be a nice help.




But, if you've *traded* (I assume, sold?) You'll have capital gains to declare - you can offset brokerage against CGT. That's of course...assuming you've made at least *some* gains in these 100+ transactions


----------



## Rainmaker2000 (14 November 2007)

*Re: Can i claim brokerage fee back ?*

So that's right about brokerage forming cost base for CGT....just on deciding to be a 'share trader' for ATO, it may have its advantages in having brokerage deductible, but your trading gains cease to be Capital gains and become ordinary income........that means you give up all the nice CGT concessions as well.....it's a serious decision to become a 'share trader' for ATO and should be given much thought......you should of course seek your own professional advice and blah, blah...hehe


----------



## overule (14 November 2007)

*Re: Can i claim brokerage fee back ?*

Interesting advice.

Just wondering if anyone here is a sharetrader. I would like their advice as well.


----------



## Pat (14 November 2007)

*Re: Can i claim brokerage fee back ?*

As a pro trader, your trades may be considered income, however is a pro trader allowed to have investments, with profits classed as Capital Gains?


----------



## overule (14 November 2007)

*Re: Can i claim brokerage fee back ?*



Rainmaker2000 said:


> So that's right about brokerage forming cost base for CGT....just on deciding to be a 'share trader' for ATO, it may have its advantages in having brokerage deductible, but your trading gains cease to be Capital gains and become ordinary income........that means you give up all the nice CGT concessions as well.....it's a serious decision to become a 'share trader' for ATO and should be given much thought......you should of course seek your own professional advice and blah, blah...hehe




What are those nice CGT concessions ? and yes i made capital gains most of the time.


----------



## Nyden (14 November 2007)

*Re: Can i claim brokerage fee back ?*



overule said:


> What are those nice CGT concessions ? and yes i made capital gains most of the time.




12-month CGT 50% reduction, the ability to keep capital losses over many years; and as far as I know - being a professional trader (as a business); you need to declare increase in value as well? Not too sure on that though, maybe that's just business-holdings.

Being a professional trader applies all gains to income tax rates - and if you have a particularly good year; you'll be taxed at obviously higher rates.


----------



## overule (14 November 2007)

*Re: Can i claim brokerage fee back ?*

Surely, there are more benefits offered to sharetrader as well, right ?


----------



## nizar (14 November 2007)

*Re: Can i claim brokerage fee back ?*



overule said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am just wondering if i am allow to claim back the brokerage fee ?
> I am always buying/selling. These include shares and options.
> ...




Yes. You can claim back brokerage and transaction fees.


----------



## Nyden (14 November 2007)

*Re: Can i claim brokerage fee back ?*



overule said:


> Surely, there are more benefits offered to sharetrader as well, right ?




Well, I'm not sure to be honest - but, look at it this way.

There's essentially no advantage to being a professional gambler, as you pay tax on your winnings. But being a 'punter'  - is tax free!

I guess being able to declare brokerage is an advantage - not to mention all the other "rubbish" you could claim 

A trip across the world to research a stock, a laptop and wifi internet connection to monitor & trade on the go... You could declare the cost of trading programs, subscriptions, in theory - a whole bunch of stuff. Training seminars...the list goes on.

(At least, I believe this to be the case! Ask the ATO first )


----------



## So_Cynical (14 November 2007)

*Re: Can i claim brokerage fee back ?*



JimBob said:


> From the ATO website
> 
> 
> > Quote:
> ...




LOL ya gota love self assessment.  Ive always claimed as an expense.:


----------



## kivvygosh (14 November 2007)

*Re: Can i claim brokerage fee back ?*



> Ive always claimed as an expense.



Add it to the cost base, and if you make a profit it's the same tax outcome - with the added bonus of doing your return correctly.


----------



## overule (14 November 2007)

*Re: Can i claim brokerage fee back ?*

So the conclusion of this thread is that i can claim brokerage fees. 

Alright. Thanks guys

Just before that, are there any special requirement or is it as easy as filling all these brokerage fees as expenses when doing tax returns ?

cheers again.


----------



## shinobi346 (14 November 2007)

*Re: Can i claim brokerage fee back ?*

I would see an accountant about this. What may be right for one person may not be right for you. 

Ther are pros and cons with being a pro trader and without your financial status being laid bare to an FA, no one here can tell you whats best to do, whether to claim it or not.


----------



## wipz (15 November 2007)

*Re: Can i claim brokerage fee back ?*



overule said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am just wondering if i am allow to claim back the brokerage fee ?
> I am always buying/selling. These include shares and options.
> ...




Hi mate, 

The broker fees are added to the cost base of your shares. When you ultimately sell the share your capital gain will be calculated as the amount you recieved on the sale of the share minus 1) the cost u paid for the share and 2) any incidental expenses in relation to the share (ie brokerage).
Remember if u hold the share on capital account for longer than 12months you are entitled to a 50% discount on your tax liability on that sale so consider this when deciding whether you should consider yourself "in the business of trading shares" and have the gain on revenue account (as you will not be entitled to the discount).
In either case you will effectively get the deduction, its just a matter of timing.

I would always prefer the shares to be held on capital account, however this is my opinion and I have other reasons, however everyones situation is different. DYOR.

Cheers


----------



## wipz (15 November 2007)

*Re: Can i claim brokerage fee back ?*



overule said:


> So the conclusion of this thread is that i can claim brokerage fees.
> 
> Alright. Thanks guys
> 
> ...




I would seriously recommend seeking professional advice before making this move as reversing your position may not be so easy. Think about the shares you hold 10 years from now, if you find yourself having massive unrealised profits and decide to sell you may not have access to discounts available and be liable for some massive tax payable.  (on the other hand holding on capital account you'll recieve a 50% discount).  I am of the opinion that if you are classed as "in the business of trading", then its all in as revenue - you do not have a choice whether you hold shares on capital or revenue account.

Keep in mind that if u hold the shares on capital account, the brokerage gets added to the cost base of the shares and will effectively reduce tax payable on disposal of the shares.  This is the equivalent of taking an outright deduction, however you get the benefit at sale, not at purchase.


----------



## wipz (15 November 2007)

*Re: Can i claim brokerage fee back ?*



So_Cynical said:


> LOL ya gota love self assessment.  Ive always claimed as an expense.:




Hehe mate, if the tax man has a look at you and you claim the 50% discount capital gains you'll be in for a very nice suprise   Alot of extra tax payable


----------



## Tysonboss1 (15 November 2007)

*Re: Can i claim brokerage fee back ?*



overule said:


> What's the requirement to be a share trader ? I considered myself to be one. I have traded more than 100 times this year so claiming brokerage fee would be a nice help.




Well if you are regularly selling the shares your accountant would be claiming the deduction as part of the cost base anyway.

So the only way it would help you would be if you were hanging onto the shares for a few years but you got to claim the brokerage back in the first year,..... But then because you are a trader if you did hold it longer than a year you would not get the 50% CGT discount and if you held it for serveral years you would have to pay tax every year as the shares rose in value


----------



## GreatPig (15 November 2007)

One advantage of being a pro trader that hasn't been mentioned is that losses can be offset against other revenue, like dividends and bank interest.

And if you're mainly a short-term trader who rarely holds positions for more than 12 months, then the 50% CGT discount is not a concern.



			
				Tysonboss1 said:
			
		

> if you held it for serveral years you would have to pay tax every year as the shares rose in value



I think with trading stock valuation there's an option to value at cost rather than market value, but I'm not sure of the details.

GP


----------



## Tysonboss1 (15 November 2007)

GreatPig said:


> One advantage of being a pro trader that hasn't been mentioned is that losses can be offset against other revenue, like dividends and bank interest.
> GP




How is this any different from trading under your own name,...

when you do you personal tax return your accountant takes into consideration all income less expences that you incurred to get that income whether that be brokage, interest,capital losses, laundry detergent work boots, fuel etc,etc.

from what I can see they is very little benefit from trading in any structure untill you are large enough that you need the asset protection or tax rate advantages, even then you have to be very carefull to pick the right structure.


----------



## GreatPig (15 November 2007)

Tysonboss1 said:


> How is this any different from trading under your own name



I didn't say it was. It was just a comment comparing trading as a business to share investing.

Structure is another thing altogether.

GP


----------



## jet328 (15 November 2007)

When adding the brokerage to the cost base do you have to take out the GST component?

ie brokerage came to $1100 (you are paying $100 of GST)
Do you add $1000 or $1100 to the cost base?


----------



## overule (15 November 2007)

You are only allow to claim the brokerage fee excluding GST.


----------



## GreatPig (15 November 2007)

If you are a trading business however registered for GST then you can claim back the GST.

Another advantage of being a trading business.

GP


----------



## Tysonboss1 (15 November 2007)

GreatPig said:


> If you are a trading business however registered for GST then you can claim back the GST.
> 
> Another advantage of being a trading business.
> 
> GP




I am not quite sure weather you would be able to register for gst as a share trader,

generally you can only claim back gst when you are collecting gst from your customers in some way,

Gst is supposed to work out at 10% of the finished product or service,... so if you buy a large chips for $5.50 the shop has collected $0.50gst from you. but they don't have to pay they whole $0.50gst to the tax office because they have already paid gst on the products they had to buy such as the bag of frozen chips, cooking oil, rent, cleaning products etc,....... this is what businesses mean when they say they claim back gst,..... back share traders are not selling a product or service.

so I can't see how a share trader could be registered for gst,.... inform me if I am wrong though


----------



## yonnie (15 November 2007)

I reckon that you deduct $ 1100 from your profits if you are not claiming back the gst, because those are your costs.

you dont have to keep the GST separate if you dont claim the GST.
when you buy your shares say $ 10,000 + brokerage $ 25 inclusive of GST, you can book the whole amount of $ 10,025 as stock.



tyson: I am a share trader and I am registered for GST.


----------



## Tysonboss1 (15 November 2007)

yonnie said:


> I reckon that you deduct $ 1100 from your profits if you are not claiming back the gst, because those are your costs.




I am afraid not,.... Gst is a tax,.... 

And unfortunatly "TAX" is not "Tax deductable"


----------



## barnz2k (15 November 2007)

OK I get the bit about offsetting brokerage if I sell a stock, but WHEN is that brokerage taken from?

Is it from the same Financial Year or the brokerage on the stock in question?

Ie, 1st year I buy 6 stocks=6 brokerage costs.
2nd Year i buy 3 more= 3 brok.costs
3rd year i sell 2=2 brokerage costs.

so I can only take the 2 selling costs against my 2 sold share's profit?


----------



## Hyperion (15 November 2007)

If you are in the "business" of trading shares, and are registered for GST you may claim GST on brokerage.

However, as brokerage is a financial supply, you only get a reduced input tax credit (i.e. 75% of the GST)

Superfunds may also claim GST on brokerage.

If you are on capital account, the entire amount of brokerage including the GST counts towards your cost base of your shares.


----------



## overule (15 November 2007)

Alright,

So i have decided to become a share trader, realizing that i always sell my shares/options before 12 months so i won't benefit from the 50% CGT.

What's the first step ? or is it as easy as keeping record of brokerage fees and claiming it when doing tax returns ?

Thanks!


----------



## Hyperion (15 November 2007)

Tysonboss1 said:


> I am afraid not,.... Gst is a tax,....
> 
> And unfortunatly "TAX" is not "Tax deductable"




Hmm, well you're not actually claiming a tax deduction for it specifically.  You're counting it towards your cost base which will reduce the capital gain when you eventually sell it.  (This is assuming you are on capital account).

GST is a separate tax to Income tax (CGT is part of income tax).  It know it seems stupid that you're reducing your tax with another tax but thats how it is I guess.  For example - Stamp duty counts towards the cost base of property.  It is an incidental cost in acquiring the asset, the 2nd element of cost base.


----------



## Tysonboss1 (15 November 2007)

Hyperion said:


> If you are on capital account, the entire amount of brokerage including the GST counts towards your cost base of your shares.




If it counts towards your cost base then you are not really claiming it back,... you are just not getting taxed on it again.


----------



## Hyperion (15 November 2007)

overule said:


> Alright,
> 
> So i have decided to become a share trader, realizing that i always sell my shares/options before 12 months so i won't benefit from the 50% CGT.
> 
> ...




Becoming a share trader is not an election.  It is a question of fact.  The following factors may be relevant in determining whether one is in the business of trading shares;

the nature of the activities, particularly whether they have the purpose of profit making 
the repetition and regularity of the activities 
organisation in a business-like manner, the keeping of books or records and the use of a system 
the volume of the operations, and 
the amount of capital employed.


For some reason, people seem to have this idea that if they qualify as a share trader, they will get an advantage by getting a deduction for brokerage.

If you are buying and selling your shares so often (say within the same year) then you are effectively getting a deduction for brokerage anyway because it is included in your cost base and reduces your capital gain.

Also, you dont need to be in the business of share trading to get a deduction for investment related expenses.  Brokerage is different because it is an incidental cost in acquiring an asset and directly referrable to the acquisition.  Other investment related expenses will still be deductible even if you are on capital account e.g. Investment newsletters.

Remember the general rule for deductions: 

You can deduct from your assessable income any loss or outgoing
to the extent that:
(a) it is incurred in gaining or producing your assessable income;
or
(b) it is necessarily incurred in carrying on a *business for the
purpose of gaining or producing your assessable income.


----------



## GreatPig (16 November 2007)

Regarding being in the business of share trading, take a look at these ATO articles:

Fact Sheet
ID 2001-745
ID 2001-746

GP


----------



## Hyperion (16 November 2007)

Tysonboss1 said:


> If it counts towards your cost base then you are not really claiming it back,... you are just not getting taxed on it again.




Hmm, I hope this example helps...


Trader

Buy: $1000 shares, $10 brokerage (excl GST), $1 GST

Sell: Proceeds $1200

Profit = $1200 - $1000 = $200

Tax deduction for brokerage = $10

Taxable income = $200 - $10 = $190

GST refund = 75% x $1 = 75c


Investor (capital account)

Buy $1000 shares, $10 brokerage (excl GST), $1 GST
Cost base = $1011

Sell: Proceeds = $1200

Cap Gain = $1200 - $1011 = $189

Assessable income = $189


So when something goes into your cost base, you pretty much are getting a deduction for it.  Its like a deferred deduction, it only applies when you sell the asset.

^Thats how I think it all works anyway :

Feel free to correct me anyone

Cheers

Hyperion


----------



## GreatPig (16 November 2007)

So the GST-registered trader is still a little better off, since he pays tax (say 30%) on the $1 spent on GST but gets 75 cents back, a return of 45 cents, whereas the investor gets a deduction for the $1, a saving of 30 cents.

So the investor gets a 30 cent benefit while the trader gets a 45 cent benefit.

Mind you, if both were on 40% tax, then the investor would get a 40 cent benefit while the trader would only get a 35 cent benefit.

Is that correct?

GP


----------



## Hyperion (16 November 2007)

"since he pays tax (say 30%) on the $1 spent on GST"

hmm, maybe im reading you wrong but you pay tax on income, not expenses...

He has spent $1 on GST, and he gets 75c GST refund.  I think its completely separate to income tax.

Hyperion


----------



## GreatPig (16 November 2007)

Yes, I realised afterwards that I had faulty logic there 

I was just looking at the investor getting a tax deduction for the GST while the trader doesn't, but the trader gets a 75% rebate.

Perhaps if we look at it this way for that $1 GST, assuming in both cases the tax rate is 40%:

Investor: earns $1 income (+$1), spends $1 GST ($1-$1=$0), no more tax to pay or refunded. Net result $0.

Trader: earns $1 income (+$1), spends $1 GST ($0), pays 40c tax on income (-$0.40), gets a 75 cent rebate (+$0.35). Net result +$0.35.

So the trader retains 35% of his $1 income while the investor retains nothing (for a 30% tax rate it would be 45% retained). Only if the tax rate were to exceed the rebate level would the trader be worse off.

Now I think I have it right... 

GP


----------



## Tysonboss1 (16 November 2007)

Do people registed as traders pay higher brokerage,

Because it's funny on some things like Insurance when you tell the insurance company that you will be using the insured item for business and claiming back the gst, I can't understand why but they put the price up with the excuse that they have to pass on some tax credit cost.


----------



## Tysonboss1 (16 November 2007)

Another thing you have to look into is weather alot of your other costs will go up once trading as a business, you may have higher,

Bank fees,................. possily up to $30/month.
Accounting fees,........ you may have to lodge two tax returns
legal setup,............... It can cost over $1000 to setup a company
annual company fees,.. Asic fee every year

etc.etc


----------



## GreatPig (16 November 2007)

Tysonboss1 said:


> Another thing you have to look into is weather alot of your other costs will go up once trading as a business



The costs depend more on the structure than how you're using it. You don't need a company to run a business.

For example, I have bank accounts with NAB for personal, trust, and company. The fees on the personal one are lower, but the trust and company are the same (in the grand scale of things though, the difference is negligible). Likewise with ING and BankWest linked Internet accounts: the interest on a personal account is higher than a business account, and trusts need a business account no matter how they're used.

Accounting fees depend on the number and type of structures and the complexity of the work involved. How you use the structures may impact on the complexity of work involved, but not on the cost of obtaining and using the structures themselves.

GP


----------



## Hyperion (16 November 2007)

Hmm, when we are talking about a business of trading shares - it doesnt necessarily mean in a company structure.  It can be as a sole trader.

GP: You have a trust and company?  Is this a discretionary trust and investment company?

must be wealthy/have a good accountant  :

Hyperion


----------



## yonnie (16 November 2007)

Hyperion,

In your example with brokerage at $ 10 + GST $1.

as a trader you claim 75% of $ 1 = $ 0.75

you forget that the missing $ 0.25 of Gst is a cost to the trader and will have to be subtracted from the profit.

also if a trader has a turnover lower than $ 50,000, he is able to claim 100% of GST.

good for option traders I suppose, not for me.


----------



## Hyperion (16 November 2007)

yonnie,

"also if a trader has a turnover lower than $ 50,000, he is able to claim 100% of GST."

Thats interesting - I didn't know that.  Would you be able show me where this is from?  legislation or ATO website etc.

Thanks,

Hyperion


----------



## yonnie (16 November 2007)

hyperion,

cant remember exactly where I got that from, but almost sure I got it from the ATO website somewhere.

good luck


----------



## Hyperion (17 November 2007)

yonnie,

Hmm.. are you referring to the financial acquisitions threshold?

http://www.ato.gov.au/businesses/content.asp?doc=/content/42954.htm

As far as I can see, you are permitted a 75% RITC regardless of turnover.


----------



## GreatPig (17 November 2007)

Hyperion said:


> You have a trust and company?  Is this a discretionary trust and investment company?



I actually have two trusts and two companies (three if you count the one that's the trustee for one of the trusts).

Both trusts are HDTs, one company is for the share trading business, and the other company is one I've had for years and (unfortunately) owns most of my funds so is acting as my bank (very friendly bank manager there ).



> must be wealthy/have a good accountant



Don't know about that, but I'll soon have a wealthy accountant  (actually he is good... just in case he's reading ).

GP


----------



## wipz (17 November 2007)

jet328 said:


> When adding the brokerage to the cost base do you have to take out the GST component?
> 
> ie brokerage came to $1100 (you are paying $100 of GST)
> Do you add $1000 or $1100 to the cost base?




No.


----------



## yonnie (17 November 2007)

Hyperion said:


> yonnie,
> 
> Hmm.. are you referring to the financial acquisitions threshold?
> 
> ...




hyperion, sorry I might be wrong about claiming 100%.
I just didn`t look into it properly, `cos my turnover is far more than $ 50,000.


----------



## sails (17 November 2007)

I don't think GST can be claimed back with IB. Because they are US based, I understand they don't need to be registered.  Anything supplied to them by the ASX (eg data fees, option trading fees) has the GST attached, but because IB are probably not registered, they simply pay the extra and then re-coup it from us.

Anyone know if this is so?


----------



## sails (17 November 2007)

yonnie said:


> hyperion, sorry I might be wrong about claiming 100%.
> I just didn`t look into it properly, `cos my turnover is far more than $ 50,000.




Hi yonnie, I thought to claim the 100% GST credits is based on "financial supply" and not "turnover" of the business - trading shares and their derivatives are not imput taxed - only the fees and other related charges.  

As I understand it, as long as there is less than $50,000 pa in imput taxed fees and charges, we are entitiled to claim 100% if we are registered for GST.  

Any thoughts?  If I have it wrong, perhaps one of our accountants here would be happy to comment?


----------



## overule (17 November 2007)

Hi All,

Just to clear things up,

As i have traded about 100 times this year. Brokerage fees (including GST) = $3300. I also kept a copy of P/L statement (in case ATO call me up)

So basically, when submitting tax returns. I would list this deduction under 
"D7 - Deductions - Interest and Dividends"  with $3300 as the amount to be claimed. 

Is it that simple ? or have i missed something ?


----------



## So_Cynical (17 November 2007)

Its self assessment...and ive assessed that all costs of buying 
and selling shares are a deduction.

I like self assessment.


----------



## overule (17 November 2007)

So_Cynical said:


> Its self assessment...and ive assessed that all costs of buying
> and selling shares are a deduction.
> 
> I like self assessment.




What do you mean by self assessment ? With self assessment, do you record it somewhere just incase ATO call up ?

Thanks,
overule


----------



## Hyperion (18 November 2007)

Overule,

Whether you can claim brokerage as a deduction depends on your status - whether you are a share "holder" or a share "trader".

Whether you are a share holder or a share trader depends.  The following factors are relevant:

1. nature of activities
2. repeition and regularity
3. organisation in a business-like manner, the keeping of books or records and the use of a system
4. the volume of operations
5. amount of capital employed.

Positive factors Negative factors 
More likely to be a business if ... Less likely to be a business if ... 
Large scale operations Small scale operations 
Involves employees One person operation 
Frequent acts/transactions Infrequent acts/transactions 
Conducted with a view to profit Conducted as mere hobby 
Profitable Non-profitable 
Conducted over long period Short-term 
Conducted continuously and systematically Spasmodic 
In commercial premises At home 
Involves items typically dealt with commercially Involves items not ordinarily dealt with commercially 
Involves exercise of specialised knowledge Involves little knowledge or skills 
Significant capital investment Little or no capital investment 
Business records kept Records not kept, or inadequate 
Full-time Part-time 
Market research done No market research 
Associated with other commercial activities of taxpayer No other commercial activities 
Existence of business organisation, business name Conducted personally/privately 
Advertising No advertising 
Active Inactive or preliminary 

If you are a share holder, brokerage is added to your cost base of your shares.  Thus it reduces the capital gain when you dispose of your shares.

If you are share trader, then you shares are trading stock and fall under the trading stock provisions.  Your brokerage will be a deduction.

I'd just like to add, that there really isnt any benefit in being classed as a share trader.  The only reason it would appear to be of benefit is if you are making large losses - which I hope isnt the case.

I would think that many of us would not be classed as share traders.  If you hold another job, it would be very difficult to be classified a share trader.  In fact, there is a case about someone who claimed to be a share trader and the judge said you would almost have to be derelict in your duties at your day job to be classed a share trader.  (because the effort and time required)

Hyperion


----------



## Hyperion (18 November 2007)

sails said:


> Hi yonnie, I thought to claim the 100% GST credits is based on "financial supply" and not "turnover" of the business - trading shares and their derivatives are not imput taxed - only the fees and other related charges.
> 
> As I understand it, as long as there is less than $50,000 pa in imput taxed fees and charges, we are entitiled to claim 100% if we are registered for GST.
> 
> Any thoughts?  If I have it wrong, perhaps one of our accountants here would be happy to comment?




You need to be a business and registered for GST to claim any GST.  If you are registered, I believe you can only claim 75% of the GST you have paid on brokerage/fees as as it is a Reduced Input Tax Credit - and there is no limit.

As IB is international, I don't think they charge you GST, so you wouldnt be able to claim it.  You will be able to see on the contract notes/tax invoices whether they have charged you GST.

hmm, admittedly, my GST knowledge isnt all that great though... 

Hyperion


----------



## So_Cynical (18 November 2007)

overule said:


> What do you mean by self assessment ? With self assessment, do you record it somewhere just incase ATO call up ?
> 
> Thanks,
> overule




Self-assessment and the taxpayer

http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/content.asp?doc=/content/13685.htm

U keep records for 5 years...i use a work sheet to calculate everything
and thats my record...so if the ATO ask, i can show them how i arrived 
at a figure...i like to be honest with my tax so im not deducting costs 
that arnt there.


----------



## yonnie (18 November 2007)

overule said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Just to clear things up,
> 
> ...




hi overule,

if you have a business as a share trader, your brokerage fees should be in your P/L, not as a separate item in D7 - Deductions


----------



## GreatPig (18 November 2007)

Hyperion said:


> I believe you can only claim 75% of the GST you have paid on brokerage/fees



Well last year I claimed 100% on my GST return, using the figure my accountant told me to (which was the total GST paid on brokerage during the year) and the ATO refunded the whole amount. The expenditure (ie. brokerage+GST) was just listed in the return as non-capital purchases, so I guess they'd have had no idea it was for GST on brokerage unless they checked what the company's business was.

And I've been told to do the same again this year, using the total GST figure, and have already sent in the return with that amount.

Not saying my accountant is necessarily right either, but it's good enough for me until proven otherwise. 

GP


----------



## yonnie (18 November 2007)

Great Pig,

didn`t you claim the gst on car costs, professional papers/magazines, telephone, internet, power, office costs etc.?

BTW: you should expect your accountant to know all the ins and outs of Gst. 
If he was my accountant and he proved to be wrong, I would surely get another one.


----------



## GreatPig (18 November 2007)

He hasn't been wrong on anything yet that I'm aware of, but then I haven't been audited to find out.

GP


----------



## yonnie (18 November 2007)

Hyperion said:


> yonnie,
> 
> "also if a trader has a turnover lower than $ 50,000, he is able to claim 100% of GST."
> 
> ...




just found it on the ATO website.

yes it has to do with the financial acquisitions threshold.

go to Financial questions issue no 4.4 and no 7.

you will find the answers there.

could you let me know what the exact explanation is?
thanks

from what I read is that as long as you dont spend more than $ 50,000 on cost like brokerage associated with acquiring or disposal of shares, you can claim 100% of the gst.


----------

